Post by: Solymr on March 29, 2014, 11:04:45 am
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Post by: SeriousConcentrate on March 29, 2014, 11:18:18 am
Personally I feel the Knight should keep SOMETHING as otherwise they take an Armor-Killer weakness for not much gain (at least the flying and mounted units get increased mobility, better Rescue capabilities, and in the Nomad's case, the ability to move again after attacking). I'm fine with 5 or less physical damage since that's what the knight is made for (DEF-tanking).
Post by: Xanmyral on March 29, 2014, 11:32:53 am
I agree with the decision, happy they get something. I wouldn't see the harm in raising it to five, but I prefer four at the least.
Post by: Furtuka on March 29, 2014, 11:42:04 am
I pretty much agree with Xan and Ser, either 4 or 5 sounds pretty good really.
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 29, 2014, 02:02:29 pm
As for Knights, I'd say 4, for physical and magical. If it's late enough in the game that he has high enough resistance to only take 4 damage from a magic attack(which means they're probably using Wind magic...), he deserves to have that little bit of protection.
If only physical, though, five seems good.
Though, really, I feel like it should be 3 or so at the beginning of the game, and scale to 6 as they level up. Maybe a tenth of HP or 3, whichever is greater?
Post by: Solymr on March 29, 2014, 02:14:42 pm
Though, really, I feel like it should be 3 or so at the beginning of the game, and scale to 6 as they level up. Maybe a tenth of HP or 3, whichever is greater?I think we're onto something here. Scaling armored limit based on a percentage of HP/DEF.
Who likes this idea?
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 29, 2014, 02:27:11 pm
EDIT: Could be the same against Magic, using Resistance instead, and adding a smaller number, so it'll be maybe 4 or 5 if you manage to max RES.
DOUBLEDIT: Also, 1.22 may be weird, but you have to admit the format is a lot nicer.
Post by: Furtuka on March 29, 2014, 02:59:06 pm
Post by: Solymr on March 29, 2014, 03:05:59 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on March 29, 2014, 03:12:34 pm
Post by: Furtuka on March 29, 2014, 03:27:18 pm
Post by: scapheap on March 29, 2014, 03:34:42 pm
It could be a tenth of DEF, plus 2 or 3. So it starts at 3 or so, goes up to 6 if you max your DEF stat.I like this idea.
EDIT: Could be the same against Magic, using Resistance instead, and adding a smaller number, so it'll be maybe 4 or 5 if you manage to max RES.
DOUBLEDIT: Also, 1.22 may be weird, but you have to admit the format is a lot nicer.
Post by: Culise on March 29, 2014, 03:36:51 pm
It could be a tenth of DEF, plus 2 or 3. So it starts at 3 or so, goes up to 6 if you max your DEF stat.This seems like a good idea. Gives knights something useful, without making it overpowering.
EDIT: Could be the same against Magic, using Resistance instead, and adding a smaller number, so it'll be maybe 4 or 5 if you manage to max RES.
DOUBLEDIT: Also, 1.22 may be weird, but you have to admit the format is a lot nicer.
Post by: Solymr on March 29, 2014, 03:39:58 pm
Only for physical damage or both?
Post by: Culise on March 29, 2014, 03:42:17 pm
So Armoured with 2 base + 10% of DEF seems good?I like both. Notionally, magical damage would be countered by adding 10% of RES instead, but they tend to get terrible RES.
Only for physical damage or both?
Post by: Xanmyral on March 29, 2014, 03:43:55 pm
As another notice, I've planned on doing what BMM said for Bandits and Pirates that they can double obstacles, such as walls, doors, etc. Thoughts? Seems like a small but useful ability to give them.
Post by: Solymr on March 29, 2014, 03:45:45 pm
IIRC he said that Raid extended to obstacles.
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 29, 2014, 04:59:26 pm
How about giving Cliffs a terrain bonus for the fliers that can use it?
Oh, and there should be something done about no native S rank Anima users, I feel.
Speaking of magic, Druid Dark magic, Ward Holy magic, and maybe Thunder magic needs to be adjusted, I feel. Druid and Ward are simply a bit 'meh' right now, and Haspen's making Druid magic Effective is nice, but also obsoletes Judgement magic by affecting larger variety and giving bonus to hit, besides the opponent's penalty to hit. Wards just have rather limited use, and Thunder magic seems like it should maybe be a bit less accurate.
Most Anima magic seems like it's a bit too accurate to me, though, so.
Post by: Solymr on March 29, 2014, 05:08:09 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 29, 2014, 05:22:36 pm
Pilums vs. Javelins, Sidearms vs. Anything(but especially swords), Thrusting vs. Slashing, Bludgeoning vs. Hacking, Polearms vs. Piercing, Druid Magic, Ward Magic, Judgement Magic if we screw with Druid too much, Crossbows(maybe), and Thunder magic(maybe)?
Starting with Druid Magic, please. :p
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 29, 2014, 05:25:45 pm
But pilums need nerf bad.
Post by: Xanmyral on March 29, 2014, 05:26:05 pm
Post by: Solymr on March 29, 2014, 05:32:12 pm
My idea is that pilums prevent double attacks, without giving double attacks themselves. Only Soliferrum gets double attacks.
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 29, 2014, 05:36:00 pm
Post by: Gamerboy4life on March 29, 2014, 05:37:48 pm
Then could we talk about balancing some of the weapons?
Pilums vs. Javelins, Sidearms vs. Anything(but especially swords), Thrusting vs. Slashing, Bludgeoning vs. Hacking, Polearms vs. Piercing, Druid Magic, Ward Magic, Judgement Magic if we screw with Druid too much, Crossbows(maybe), and Thunder magic(maybe)?
Starting with Druid Magic, please. :p
What about weapon types doing extra damage to certain enemies? We all know that bows do effective damage to flying units, but what if a Crossbow did effective damage to an armored unit, since they're made to punch through armor? Or the polearm subtype doing a bit more damage against cavalry, since the purpose of a polearm is to counter a charge?
Weapons that are thrown could still be used in melee, but would likely get a debuff as well, since weapons like the Pilum were made exclusively for throwing- you wouldn't be able to exchange more than a few blows with someone before the tip bends or breaks off, as it's designed to do. A Javelin would fare slightly better with being used as a hand to hand weapon, but it wouldn't be as effective as the Pilum would be when thrown, etc etc.
Also, looting from enemy corpses. I'd like it if that were a thing- even if mooks just carried base iron weapons, it would be better than resorting to a less favored weapon when your Magic Spear of the Macguffin +10 finally breaks, and you're facing the mean general in front of you with nothing more than a half-used killer bow, for example. If you wanted to balance this, you could make it so weapons picked up only had half or a quarter durability, making them effectively useless to sell at shops.
Post by: Solymr on March 29, 2014, 05:39:47 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on March 29, 2014, 05:41:20 pm
Post by: Haspen on March 29, 2014, 05:44:26 pm
/me cleverly disguised PTW.
Post by: Gamerboy4life on March 29, 2014, 05:48:44 pm
Pilums were used by Roman soldiers to shatter shields or make them cumbersome by adding pilum's weight before melee charge; additionally the thin metal part between spearhead and handle bent in such way pilum couldn't be pulled out and tossed back.
/me cleverly disguised PTW.
Which is why they'd make poor melee weapons.
Soft iron wouldn't stand up to much abuse.
Post by: Haspen on March 29, 2014, 05:49:51 pm
Pilums were used by Roman soldiers to shatter shields or make them cumbersome by adding pilum's weight before melee charge; additionally the thin metal part between spearhead and handle bent in such way pilum couldn't be pulled out and tossed back.
/me cleverly disguised PTW.
Which is why they'd make poor melee weapons.
Soft iron wouldn't stand up to much abuse.
Which brings us perfectly into the idea I like:
On with Gamer's idea, how about this: pilums have a range of 2. Just 2. Not 1-2, just 2. Plays well with the knight's class ability too, which is flavorful.
Post by: Solymr on March 29, 2014, 05:52:20 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on March 29, 2014, 05:53:48 pm
Post by: Haspen on March 29, 2014, 05:54:43 pm
If they get only range 2, should they keep the double attacks?
Sure! Toss two at your enemy and then 'CHARGE FOR THE GLORY OF MOTHERLAND' :P
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 29, 2014, 05:55:09 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 29, 2014, 05:57:02 pm
Maybe they don't get double attacks in melee? I dunno.
Post by: Haspen on March 29, 2014, 05:58:15 pm
I think in melee, you'd just pull out a new one.
Maybe they don't get double attacks in melee? I dunno.
Do you want to argue why you can use pilums in melee but not bows? :P
We shouldn't overcomplicate simple game things.
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 29, 2014, 06:00:40 pm
Would Soliferrum keep 1-2 range? I think it should.
Post by: Xanmyral on March 29, 2014, 06:03:40 pm
As for problems with it, I'd like to point out that there is a sword that has a 1-2 range. You don't throw it nor is it magical. Bows have a range of two. Draw your own assumptions as to how long the sword is.
Post by: Solymr on March 29, 2014, 06:05:30 pm
Post by: Gamerboy4life on March 29, 2014, 06:06:15 pm
I agree with Haspen here, the goal with all balances and tweaks should be to add as little complexity as possible and still arrive at what you want.
As for problems with it, I'd like to point out that there is a sword that has a 1-2 range. You don't throw it nor is it magical. Bows have a range of two. Draw your own assumptions as to how long the sword is.
A sword with a 1-2 range?
Is there a lance with the same thing? Because a lance that could actually keep enemies at bay would be pretty neat.
Post by: Xanmyral on March 29, 2014, 06:07:15 pm
Sword is under crush, the claymore I think.
As for the knight weapon, I'm good with it keeping 1-2 range.
Post by: Solymr on March 29, 2014, 06:10:23 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on March 29, 2014, 06:11:43 pm
Post by: Solymr on March 29, 2014, 06:14:39 pm
I think the point of claymore is to have a ranged sword that wasn't magical.
Cause throwing your sword never works.
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 29, 2014, 06:16:00 pm
I also think Sidearms are kinda silly as is. I feel like maybe they should almost all have 1-2 range to be a sword version of javelins so they're useful in ways other than Assassins giggling at The Hidden Blade. Or just have higher crit rates all around.
Post by: Gamerboy4life on March 29, 2014, 06:16:28 pm
A throwing weapon and a melee weapon are functionally the same if they have 1-2 range :V
I think the point of claymore is to have a ranged sword that wasn't magical.
Cause throwing your sword never works.
On that-
Why is there no throwing dagger item? You can add like, a Kunai subclass or something at least.
Post by: Xanmyral on March 29, 2014, 06:18:58 pm
@Role: Sides don't seem that bad to me. Some throwing, some poison (only weapons that are physical with such effects mind you except for the one crossbow I believe), a little inaccurate though.
Post by: Solymr on March 29, 2014, 06:20:41 pm
We could always change the name of one of them to pike :P
The heavy spear for example?
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 29, 2014, 06:23:10 pm
And there are certainly other weapons, in the Polearms, Venom and Poison Halberd. Frankly surprised there isn't one in the Axe category.
EDIT: Speaking of Polearms, perhaps they should have a few 1-2 physical ones, since they're supposed to be pikes and halberds and such. Besides, Knights always seemed like they fit with Polearms better, fluff-wise, than Spears, but maybe that's jut me.
Post by: Xanmyral on March 29, 2014, 06:26:59 pm
@Gamer: See Side. They have throwing daggers. The sword line is a bit odd since it's the only line with a forth branch, second if you count ballistas under bows.
@Role: I remember being disappointed that there weren't glaives. They're all halberds. As for the sides, maybe up their accuracy of the non-throwing ones?
Post by: Solymr on March 29, 2014, 06:28:56 pm
Polearms are more of a soldier/wyvern rider weapon IMO. And the 1-2 range lances belong completely to spear subcategory cause it's pretty much its definition :V
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 29, 2014, 06:38:58 pm
Post by: Solymr on March 29, 2014, 06:44:57 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 29, 2014, 06:47:43 pm
@Role: I remember being disappointed that there weren't glaives. They're all halberds. As for the sides, maybe up their accuracy of the non-throwing ones?There is a Glaive, E rank I think. It's Effective againts Cavalry units.
I disagree with 1-2 range lances only belonging in spear category. Mostly; I had a thought: What if the 'ranged' weapons in polearms were only 2 range? After all, it's hard to fight with a pike against someone with a knife, once he gets close. Also fits with Hold The Line, since it's keeping them away from you.
Speaking of knives, maybe Sidearms shouldn't take up inventory space? That way a Rogue can hold a weapon of some kind (or just have them be an exception to the rogue rule?), or something. They're just so light that it becomes kinda unnecessary how light they are, especially since proficiency alone reduces effective weight of the A and S rank ones to near 0. And being so light means they're not very powerful.
Ooh! What about some of them having a rule that for every additional 4 points higher your AS is, you get another attack, to a max of four or something?
Post by: Xanmyral on March 29, 2014, 06:50:27 pm
I figure a simple x2 should shape them up, although if we want more complex we could have it be two stats added together percentage chance instead.
@Role: Imma give a really big no to that last idea. Geeze no. Thirty strength sword master with side geeze no.
Post by: Solymr on March 29, 2014, 06:55:38 pm
Statx2% chance seems nice. Maybe we'll see some cancels and adepts. If it's too great then reduce the multiplier to 1.5
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 29, 2014, 06:56:24 pm
Except the hidden blade. Wouldn't want assassins to have range assassinationing.
Yeah, definitely not that one.
Ooh! What about some of them having a rule that for every additional 4 points higher your AS is, you get another attack, to a max of four or something?
Speed is enough of a god stat already. I object to this.
I've been thinking that weapon skill should translate to more than being able to swing a better weapon though. Maybe battle stats increase as well?
D gives +5 hit, C +10 Hit, B +5 eva and 10 hit, A gets +1 Dam, 5 eva and 10 hit, and S gets 5 crit on top of A bonuses.
It'd make Discipline a bit more worthwhile, and Weapon Skills more worthwhile in general, since the weight reduction is usually negligible, and otherwise all it does is allow access to weapons that for the most part, you probably won't get.
As a secondary topic to this one, what is to be done with stat% skills? Nobody likes them because they're blue-moon, why get something that's very rare when you cam get a sure thing? When they become more common, by then it was as if you were without a skill for a long time.
I figure a simple x2 should shape them up, although if we want more complex we could have it be two stats added together percentage chance instead.
I think 1.5 would be better. x2 seems a bit extreme to me.
Post by: Solymr on March 29, 2014, 06:59:44 pm
I wouldn't start the bonuses until rank B though.
Post by: Xanmyral on March 29, 2014, 07:03:06 pm
I suggested 2x because it's simple to math for and at max has a bit over a coin flip's chance to work. By then you're a promote though, and rather deserve it in my opinion. But with some effects I can see it as strong, but with adept it is a cost skill.
Nothing says it can't be adjusted higher or lower as it is put into play though, and 1.5x seems like a good starting point.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 29, 2014, 07:06:39 pm
Post by: Solymr on March 29, 2014, 07:10:38 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 29, 2014, 08:01:23 pm
Though, I have to be honest, Myrmidon(of either Promo) with a Brave Sword and Adept would be fairly terrifying with Statx2%. Rightfully so, I suppose, considering the stats needed for it to be effective, but still. Easily 6 attacks on average.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 29, 2014, 08:03:58 pm
Would Miracle be affected by this? I feel like in games where hitting 0 HP equals death period, it should be Luckx3%, but in most Luckx2% should work.
Though, I have to be honest, Myrmidon(of either Promo) with a Brave Sword and Adept would be fairly terrifying with Statx2%. Rightfully so, I suppose, considering the stats needed for it to be effective, but still. Easily 6 attacks on average.
All percentile based skills, so yes to Miracle.
@Spammaster eventuality: Well that's why I suggested 1.5
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 29, 2014, 08:10:52 pm
Also, I just realized Resolve+General would be sorta scary(45% chance of doing absolutely nothing), if it didn't need you to be so low on health, as well as being Cost.
Post by: Xanmyral on March 29, 2014, 08:12:41 pm
Big Shield should probably be 1.5x
Actually, that would get confusing really quickly. You'd have to check each one to see the multiplier.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 29, 2014, 08:38:27 pm
Class skills can be reviewed individually, and Big Shield doesn't need boosted activation, considering it's better than Miracle (activates on all attacks, nullifies damage instead of halving).
EDIT: Maybe we should have a section in the OP where we have results for things that've been voted on.
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 29, 2014, 08:39:34 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 29, 2014, 08:42:53 pm
Wait, why would Miracle be unchanged? Since people can be revived anyway, it's a bit weak right now anyway.
The ability to ignore damage, even partially, is nothing to sneeze at. It's not a skill you base a strategy around, though.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on March 29, 2014, 08:44:44 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on March 29, 2014, 08:47:59 pm
The idea was bad though, and it dos more persuade me to 1.5x instead of 2x. I suggest Ancient Gamble stay as is however, simply because it already has a multiplier, and you don't fix what isn't broke.
I also like SC's idea.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 29, 2014, 08:52:05 pm
How about making Luck not a dump stat by simply making all single stat chance skills have stat+LCK chance to activate?
First of all, a better way to do that would be to simply add Luck to hit rates instead of halving it first. Then it would contribute more.
Second, where does that leave Miracle?
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on March 29, 2014, 09:09:41 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on March 29, 2014, 09:13:10 pm
Personally, I'm okay with either a flat multiplier or the use of the luck stat. Either are nice and simple, with one making luck more useful.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 29, 2014, 09:21:51 pm
If we do go the LCKx2 route, we need to change how Miracle works, and have it only ever leave you with 1 hp, and not activate if you only have 1 hp.
EDIT: @Xan: I don't think the decision we eventually make regarding the character skills should necessarily reflect what we do with the class skills. Let's leave them separate, at least for now.
And yeah, that'd make Ancient Gamble downright reliable. Also, how often can Shamans do that? As it is in the 1.20 handbook, it seems like they can do it every round, twice if they're danced. That doesn't seem right, especially since it isn't much of a gamble with no downside to failing the check (other than not getting the bonus DAM, that is)
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on March 29, 2014, 09:24:10 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 29, 2014, 09:32:08 pm
Just make it like Assassination, where the chance is capped at 40% or something?
Ehhhhhh, I don't like that either. I mean, yeah, more than 40% is kind of outrageous for a skill that can and will stop you from taking a dirt nap, but at the same time, it marginalizes that chance, especially vs. other skills. Should we cap those at 40% too? I dunno.
Now that I've thought about it, I don't mind the Luck addition to other skills, and just changing Miracle's basic function. Seems like a better way to go to me.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on March 29, 2014, 09:34:45 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 29, 2014, 10:03:13 pm
Just eliminate Miracle altogether? I dunno.
No, just have it function like in Awakening. Less abusable.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on March 29, 2014, 10:05:26 pm
Post by: Furtuka on March 29, 2014, 10:09:00 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 29, 2014, 10:09:59 pm
It's just leaves you with 1 HP after the attack, and uses base Luck.well this would be if we use the double luck.
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 30, 2014, 01:16:07 am
Besides, they'll eventually fail, and when they do, they're done.
Post by: Solymr on March 30, 2014, 04:53:56 am
Let's differentiate between Character Skills (Adept, etc) and Class Skills (Ancient Gamble).
First, Character skills: SC's idea was to be stat+lck% chance right?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 30, 2014, 07:40:33 am
You're all mixing shit up.I wanted to separate character and class skills before it was cool.
Let's differentiate between Character Skills (Adept, etc) and Class Skills (Ancient Gamble).
First, Character skills: SC's idea was to be stat+lck% chance right?
And yeah, that was SC's idea. I don't like what it does for Miracle though. Maybe we could make it so the half rounds up, so 0 damage is not possible?
Post by: Solymr on March 30, 2014, 07:45:43 am
Resetting the poll, y'all need to vote again.
Post by: Solymr on March 30, 2014, 10:39:03 am
Fencer
Post by: Xanmyral on March 30, 2014, 10:56:24 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on March 30, 2014, 10:59:32 am
Post by: Xanmyral on March 30, 2014, 11:07:18 am
Not to mention the focus on thrusts which is a hindrance in variety when considering that your attention may be very divided. Spears, another thrust weapon, could at least be bashed against an opponent with an effect, and were typically used in groups.
I don't see anything wrong with the fencer honestly, no more than I do the fighter, whose class is basically an outdoors fencer. If we gaze at changing the fencer, similar gaze should be shown on their class as well.
Post by: Furtuka on March 30, 2014, 11:14:16 am
Post by: Solymr on March 30, 2014, 11:16:59 am
Blade said that their special should be challenge: once per battle they can designate one enemy to get various bonuses when attacking them.
Edit: caellath also had something in mind. Mind sharing?
Post by: Furtuka on March 30, 2014, 11:19:23 am
Post by: Solymr on March 30, 2014, 11:21:03 am
Maybe some testing needs to be done.
Post by: Xanmyral on March 30, 2014, 11:22:32 am
As to if this consumes the fencer's MOV, turn, or is simply a free action I don't know. Nor am I sure as to what it means about enemies not knowing about the fencer's movement. Do they charge the pillar where he was, thinking he's still there, then realizing that he's now on the other pillar? Or does it work like a fighter, and he's simply invisible/hidden on his new pillar tile?
If I were to guess, it consumes his MOV and makes him hidden.
A change might be to make sneak's distance to that of his MOV, I can see that as useful and making sense.
Post by: scapheap on March 30, 2014, 11:25:16 am
Post by: Furtuka on March 30, 2014, 11:26:43 am
Post by: Solymr on March 30, 2014, 11:27:46 am
Post by: Xanmyral on March 30, 2014, 11:28:59 am
Post by: Solymr on March 30, 2014, 11:33:02 am
Post by: Xanmyral on March 30, 2014, 11:34:54 am
And to be honest I almost recommend, instead of a bonus to fighting mages, perhaps something that adds Mag progression that isn't movable. No matter how you take the class, you gotta go magic, so it may encourage people to be the class. Nothing big, a 10% boost to Mag progression, non movable and it cannot exceed 70% total as usual.
Post by: Solymr on March 30, 2014, 11:38:04 am
Post by: Xanmyral on March 30, 2014, 11:40:22 am
Post by: Solymr on March 30, 2014, 11:42:04 am
There was also the idea that challenge should reduce the amount of counters of the challenged enemy.
Post by: Xanmyral on March 30, 2014, 11:42:49 am
I feel like a conversation is being held in the background and people are assuming I can hear it.
Post by: scapheap on March 30, 2014, 11:43:14 am
We going to be reworking fighters anyway...
Post by: Solymr on March 30, 2014, 11:47:00 am
Shadow sword's was that he gets effective damage vs a challenged enemy.
Post by: Furtuka on March 30, 2014, 11:50:09 am
Post by: Xanmyral on March 30, 2014, 11:52:19 am
Post by: Gamerboy4life on March 30, 2014, 11:56:07 am
Enemy type (not just militia man a, all militia men), no effective damage, rather we copy paste the bonuses of sneak attack. Still once per battle?
Sounds more reasonable.
But I still like the Fencer's teleportation ability between pillars - if you extended it towards tree tiles as well, it would probably be a viable skill.
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 30, 2014, 11:58:01 am
Changing things to be balanced is well and good and all, but if something's not broken, don't fix it. Most of the class skills aren't things you expect to be using all the time, like Hold the Line, or Leaf on the Wind, or Cloudwalking, etc. I understand wanting to make the class more useful in a greater variety of situations, but...
Post by: Xanmyral on March 30, 2014, 11:59:03 am
Post by: Solymr on March 30, 2014, 12:06:32 pm
If we're going around changing the terrain related classes purely for the sake of them not being terrain related anymore, will we be changing Pirate and Bandit and their promotions as well? All of the axe users, you may have noticed, are terrain related. And just because a class's skills won't always be useful doesn't mean it's not balanced; take a look at Spies or Thieves. There won't always be maps with things that need lockpicked, and there will only rarely be maps with fog of war. Should we change them too?Thing about pirates/bandits is that their terrains aren't walkable by any other class, so that gives them new pathways to be used without being flying. Fighters might get the ability to teleport between forests/pillars tho :V
Changing things to be balanced is well and good and all, but if something's not broken, don't fix it. Most of the class skills aren't things you expect to be using all the time, like Hold the Line, or Leaf on the Wind, or Cloudwalking, etc. I understand wanting to make the class more useful in a greater variety of situations, but...
Even though not every map has pickable stuff, when the time comes you'll sure as hell want to do it. And no GM that I know of uses fog of war so spies would need a change too. So far people only use them because assassin. And nobody cares about master spy.
Post by: scapheap on March 30, 2014, 12:16:11 pm
And no GM that I know of uses fog of war so spies would need a change too.*Scapheap briefly stops, before turning back to map 4*
Still, spies need something as well as vision.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 30, 2014, 12:22:43 pm
Also, I suggested giving bandits and pirates a more utilitarian ability by allowing them to double all obstacles, not just supply trains.
.
And spies do need something better. How about bonus damage if they started their turn on any defensive terrain?
Post by: Gamerboy4life on March 30, 2014, 12:25:06 pm
Fencers shouldn't be allowed to phase through walls anyway, that's junk.
Also, I suggested giving bandits and pirates a more utilitarian ability by allowing them to double all obstacles, not just supply trains.
.
And spies do need something better. How about bonus damage if they started their turn on any defensive terrain?
Can't spies, er, disguise themselves as an enemy soldier?
Post by: Solymr on March 30, 2014, 12:27:04 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on March 30, 2014, 12:38:34 pm
Post by: Powder Miner on March 30, 2014, 12:41:19 pm
Post by: Gamerboy4life on March 30, 2014, 12:44:24 pm
Post by: Solymr on March 30, 2014, 12:48:21 pm
Post by: xelada on March 30, 2014, 03:28:27 pm
They should keep their anti-magic focus in at least one of their promotions, mainly since there not an anti-magic unit apart from them and Wyverns, barring thunder(wind not suppose to be, but the rules don't spell it out.).Wait, what?! Magic is supposed to be the counter to Wyverns, not the other way round, that's Pegasi that are anti-magic.
In fact, why do Wyvern Riders have Dragon Scales? It's an anti-magic ability for a class that is supposed to be bad against mages. That's like giving a Pegasus unit innate Delphi Shield. The only reason I can thing of is thematic sense, but there are other abilities that don't run counter to the original concept and make just as much sense thematically as any other classes' abilities.
Post by: Haspen on March 30, 2014, 03:33:24 pm
Wyvern Rider:
Ironscales: +5 DEF against Axes and Swords, effective damage from Thunder (on top of Bows and Wind).
Wyvern Knight:
Dragonscales: +5 DEF against Axes and Swords, +5 RES against Fire, no more effective damage from Thunder.
Post by: Xanmyral on March 30, 2014, 03:42:15 pm
While 1.22 classes get a thumbs down from me, its weapons and item changes gets my stamp of approval.
Post by: Haspen on March 30, 2014, 03:43:26 pm
I think that they screwed up classes to make for this fixing :P
Post by: scapheap on March 30, 2014, 03:43:31 pm
Wyvern Rider:Shouldn't that be 'Lances and swords' since they anti air(and most flyers hold swords and lances)?
Ironscales: +5 DEF against Axes and Swords, effective damage from Thunder (on top of Bows and Wind).
Post by: Haspen on March 30, 2014, 03:45:06 pm
Swords and Axes on other hand are slashing~
Post by: scapheap on March 30, 2014, 03:46:24 pm
Lances have pointy ends ideal for poking through tough skin, just like arrows do :PAh, now I'm in the right mindset.
Swords and Axes on other hand are slashing~
Post by: Xanmyral on March 30, 2014, 03:49:11 pm
Post by: Haspen on March 30, 2014, 03:50:27 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on March 30, 2014, 03:53:13 pm
Do they maintain these bonuses dismounted?
Post by: Haspen on March 30, 2014, 03:59:20 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on March 30, 2014, 04:07:19 pm
I've a question about wyvern riders though, so is it that they act as flying and monsters, or just flying and being weak to lightning? I've heard the former but I wasn't sure if it stuck, so I'm figuring the latter.
In other news, what's your opinion on the fencer Haspen? Some want to improve their abilities as is to make them less GM dependent, others want to change it to a challenge based thing, and there has been ideas of instead cementing their antimagic nature through giving them something that provides bonuses against enemies with levitate.
Post by: Haspen on March 30, 2014, 04:10:48 pm
Fencer has very good indoor fighting possibilities, not to mention it's promotions. Just because it sucks outdoors doesn't mean it need super enhancements.
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 30, 2014, 04:20:47 pm
Post by: Haspen on March 30, 2014, 04:24:34 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on March 30, 2014, 05:24:15 pm
I personally vote yes to all and neutral to the removed weapons.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 30, 2014, 06:49:43 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on March 30, 2014, 10:41:40 pm
- Weight of weapons rebalanced. Mostly with more weight being added but a few had their weight reduced. No more S rank recurve bows that weigh six, no more light siege magic that only weighs ten.
- Very few weapons had rises/drops of damage, but I believe the largest change was just of two damage.
- Few weapons had their accuracy fall or rise (most notable in my mind is siege magic dropped uniformly (except for dark siege magic))
- Killer weapons no longer have a crit range of 30, now 25. A few other weapon's critical rates rose and fell, fire now has a killer weapon.
- Tsuragi (S Ranked Slash Sword) got removed for Rukuud (Slightly less damage, less hit, double crit and +3 Res when equipped)
- Spy special weapons got downed to A rank (so now Master Spies can use them) and they gained a second special weapon, Hidden Gun (crossbow that also has a 50 Crit rate, also A ranked) so now archer trainees don't get screwed over if they go spy (prior, they would of never been able to use the spy's special weapon because it required an S rank in swords, but if they went assassin they would of gained an S rank in bows). Technically, now a Master Spy, who went from having no access to the spy's hidden weapon, now has access to two while the assassin only has access to one.
- A ruling on which special weapon a promote can use if multiple classes can go into that promotion (above the special class weapons)
- More Ballista type weapons, one even an S rank (as in requires someone puts that as their specialty)
- Some weapons got shuffled around on when their available, with their stats changed to show
- There is a hack weapon that is 1-2, amusingly, I assume similar to the BFS that is the Claymore.
Few other weapons got removed, some got added. This isn't by any means a thorough summery, as this is all from memory and a quick glance.
Post by: Solymr on March 31, 2014, 11:07:15 am
We haven't even finished the stat% stuff. I'll put it on the list unless someone says something. Final words?
About fencer and other classwankery, I'd rather have low-powered than uberpowered but very conditional stuff.
And for the weapons, v1.22 is good but some subcategories still need love. Praef did a nice rework of bludgeons that I'm too lazy to go and find right now.
Post by: Xanmyral on March 31, 2014, 12:32:34 pm
Also, almost forgot: staffs and performances actually have weights in 1.22
Post by: Solymr on March 31, 2014, 12:37:45 pm
Also druidic magic is kinda crap. It and judgement are quite restricted about targets but at least judgement gets effective damage.
Post by: Xanmyral on March 31, 2014, 12:39:29 pm
Post by: Solymr on March 31, 2014, 12:42:49 pm
My idea is that they get double MT vs their trumped weapon and weapon disadvantage vs any other weapon.
And changing poll right about nao
Post by: Xanmyral on March 31, 2014, 12:44:45 pm
Its effectivity against a weapon branch, not a class. A weapon type can be held by many classes. Wider margin of effectivity, penalty for it on the return. Shallower margin of effectivity, no penalty on the return.
Besides, look at the S rank Druid magic.
EDIT: Found it, I was indeed off.
Spoiler: FEF3/NEF3 revisions so far: (click to show/hide)
Post by: Solymr on March 31, 2014, 12:48:46 pm
Besides Imhullu makes you immune to anything not dark magic.
Btw gonna leave the poll a little longer until I decide what to replace it with.
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 31, 2014, 07:20:25 pm
As well, Thrusting subcategory in swords is overpowered. Jian outstrips the Wo Dao in every way, and the Colichemarde is a better version of the Silver Blade. Iron Rapier is better in every way than Iron Sword save QL.
Druid Magic, by the way, is the ultimate counter to Imhullu. Pure Darkness slaughters it.
Post by: Xanmyral on March 31, 2014, 07:24:57 pm
Jian was removed and replaced, Wo Dao got a boost.
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 31, 2014, 07:29:10 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on March 31, 2014, 07:30:15 pm
EDIT: Nah, there were some changes. Spitballing it, my guess is this:
Silver Lance's weight is now 16/17
Wind Lance's Weight now 18
Silver Great Lance left alone, maybe a +1 damage boost.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 31, 2014, 07:33:03 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on March 31, 2014, 07:38:13 pm
Perhaps drop the iron rapier's MT by one, lower its crit by five, raise WT by one?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 31, 2014, 07:40:02 pm
Dunno. Some weapons are just better, I guess. I don't see anyone complaining that the slim sword is better than the iron dagger, or the iron club being better than the iron axe.
They should be. Weapons that're of the same level shouldn't outstrip one another so easily.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on March 31, 2014, 07:40:41 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on March 31, 2014, 07:42:05 pm
Also what SC said.
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 31, 2014, 08:04:07 pm
As for iron club, pretty sure it's got a slightly lower hit than iron axe. But yes, there should be a balance somewhere(slim sword being lighter than a dagger is just dumb).
I say drop the crit entirely(that's supposed to be slashing's deal anyway), drop might by one, raise weight by one, and it should be fine. Maybe increase Hit by 5 to compensate.
Post by: Xanmyral on March 31, 2014, 08:09:41 pm
Also, I would prefer not turning the iron rapier into a wooden sword.
Post by: birdy51 on March 31, 2014, 08:11:49 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on March 31, 2014, 08:15:01 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on March 31, 2014, 08:15:26 pm
Anyway, then at least drop the crit and maybe give the iron sword +5 crit. Thrusting isn't supposed to be the high crit range weapons, yet it's often better at it then Slashing.
Post by: Xanmyral on March 31, 2014, 08:18:20 pm
I do agree to a crit drop with the iron rapier however, I was more thinking five however instead of zip, and drop the MT by one, then call it a day. I urge caution against giving a weapon that is a guaranteed starter weapon a native crit value, however.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 31, 2014, 08:19:52 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on March 31, 2014, 08:22:45 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 31, 2014, 08:25:35 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on March 31, 2014, 08:36:59 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 31, 2014, 08:41:07 pm
Post by: birdy51 on March 31, 2014, 08:53:43 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on March 31, 2014, 08:54:27 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 31, 2014, 08:57:55 pm
We try to ignore that the class changes in 1.22 exist, to be honest. It's better for our collective sanity.
The only class related change I really like in 1.22 was giving Fighters the Hero promote, with the different class skill for them.
Post by: Xanmyral on March 31, 2014, 09:09:47 pm
I do admit I like the Enchanter's Enchant skill better than the one in 1.20.
Post by: scapheap on April 01, 2014, 04:31:10 am
Post by: birdy51 on April 01, 2014, 06:34:10 am
Post by: Solymr on April 01, 2014, 06:38:13 am
I guess the spy tree relies a lot on metagame.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 01, 2014, 06:41:40 am
The Hero change is rather nifty indeed. I think the Master Spy was given a handful of buffs as well, with the ability to figure out where enemies will be coming from. Knowledge is a powerful thing.
Most GMs give you a little forewarning anyway. It strikes me as another less than useful ability.
The spy in 1.22 has one new ability I think could be tweaked to be good.
Quote
Ambush
Passive Effect
If this unit moves into position for an attack from a starting
position on a piece of cover (Forest, Pillar, Fog of War, or the
like) outside the enemy's usual line of sight, the enemy cannot
counter attack.
If we take out that bit about line of sight, I think that'd be worthwhile.
Post by: birdy51 on April 01, 2014, 06:48:27 am
Also, now Mountain Warriors have a bit more Umph in their corner if they need it, which is nice to know.
Post by: birdy51 on April 01, 2014, 06:53:07 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 01, 2014, 06:54:59 am
Actually... Come to think of it, has Haspen ever used the Master Spy and the Mountain Warrior to add more Hue Hue's to the game?
He's never used mountains, let alone mountain warriors.
No Master Spies I remember either.
Post by: Haspen on April 01, 2014, 07:17:47 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 01, 2014, 07:20:17 am
Ernest's superclass was based on Master Spy.
Really? I assumed it would have been based on assassin. Since, you know. Murder Blade.
Post by: Haspen on April 01, 2014, 07:22:13 am
Ernest's superclass was based on Master Spy.
Really? I assumed it would have been based on assassin. Since, you know. Murder Blade.
Murder Blade was based on Hidden Blade.
Post by: birdy51 on April 01, 2014, 07:30:04 am
You can't achieve maximum Hue Hue like that!
Post by: Solymr on April 01, 2014, 07:33:13 am
Btw what should I put in the poll? Everyone was talking about weapons yesterday and now it's back to classes.
Post by: Xanmyral on April 01, 2014, 08:37:08 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 01, 2014, 08:49:13 am
Choices could include:
Continue to use 1.20
Switch to 1.22 (with the high rank piercings taken from 1.20 since they got clipped on accident)
Adjust 1.20
Adjust 1.22
Rebuild from scratch. That last one is a terrible idea though and would take a significant amount of time to do right.
Post by: Solymr on April 01, 2014, 09:00:35 am
Post by: Shoruke on April 01, 2014, 10:09:20 am
Post by: Solymr on April 01, 2014, 10:21:41 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 01, 2014, 10:28:13 am
#wishfulthinking :C
But anyway voting modify 1.22.
Post by: Solymr on April 01, 2014, 10:33:21 am
It will never happen but it would be nice if someone drew fanart of all the FEF characters to use for the various class pictures.ALL OF MY YES
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 01, 2014, 10:36:37 am
It will never happen but it would be nice if someone drew fanart of all the FEF characters to use for the various class pictures.ALL OF MY YES
If someone knows an artist we could commission, I would put dosh towards this.
Post by: Shoruke on April 01, 2014, 10:48:57 am
The problem there is that artists' commisions aren't free, or even cheap.It will never happen but it would be nice if someone drew fanart of all the FEF characters to use for the various class pictures.ALL OF MY YES
...But I think we could go around DeviantArt, look for FE fanart and be like "Hey, if I put your name on this, can we put it in our fangame handbook?" Might get something free that way.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 01, 2014, 11:42:06 am
I think that was already happening for most of the class pictures. Very little of it looks like the official art.The problem there is that artists' commisions aren't free, or even cheap.It will never happen but it would be nice if someone drew fanart of all the FEF characters to use for the various class pictures.ALL OF MY YES
...But I think we could go around DeviantArt, look for FE fanart and be like "Hey, if I put your name on this, can we put it in our fangame handbook?" Might get something free that way.
But like I said, if someone can find an artist with a style that'd work, I'd probably get a few characters commissioned. Probably Valor, Lesan, and Shotrin for Hero, Nomad Trooper and Priest for sure, and maybe Sheila for pirate. Not too sure about that, because even though I love her as a character, she's not exactly a typical pirate. Leo could be our designated Saint, and Ursa our Berserker, but 5 characters would be expensive...
Post by: Xanmyral on April 01, 2014, 11:58:07 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 01, 2014, 12:12:28 pm
Not to mention there's easily forty to fifty some classes.
And we don't even have characters for some of the classes, even if we did collectively want to pay for getting them all arted out.
Post by: Xanmyral on April 01, 2014, 12:50:58 pm
I doubt anyone is gonna touch Swashbuckler much, and I'd say similar for Mountain Warrior if I wasn't dead set on making one.
Post by: Swordstar on April 01, 2014, 02:54:52 pm
Basically, I briefly mentioned this in the Divine Gems thread, but I was considering making a steampunk FEF at some point. It would include things like pistols that could be used by anyone but require a turn to reload and have a minor chance of blowing up in your hand, flying contraptions instead of flying animals that can be damanged by critical hits, requiring a need for repair either in or out of battle, probably a smaller set of classes, maybe unique, maybe just limiting what classes are available, not sure yet, and also airship battles. The airships would possibly have canons that can get fired by someone and hit a RNG'd spot within a range of available spots, if someone's on that spot, instant KO and that spot is no longer useable by anyone who's not a flier.
Thoughts/suggestions?
Post by: Solymr on April 01, 2014, 03:11:49 pm
You could ask Furtuka since he's running a Mecha FEF.
Post by: Swordstar on April 01, 2014, 03:15:45 pm
Things I was thinking: Pistols would technically be infinite use, but each time you used it, the chance it explodes in your hand goes up by like... 5% or something. So actually it's only like... max 20 use or something.
Flier class would start out as gliders and could promote into flying horse or dragon or something, they'd be mechanical obviously but.
I unno, things.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 01, 2014, 03:31:38 pm
Post by: Swordstar on April 01, 2014, 03:38:15 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on April 01, 2014, 03:49:21 pm
Took out LUCK, wound up making a sci-fi version of FEF where the players were AI in mecha suits. Half the reason why I'm against big changes, because then it will just lead to more changes to balance out the changes we made, which would lead to other changes because well we changed that so...
You get the point.
Post by: Swordstar on April 01, 2014, 03:58:55 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 01, 2014, 04:03:00 pm
Well that's why I'd mostly just be adding in items and maybe reflavoring some stuff. The more I think about it, the more I think that keeping current classes would work, just with new flavor for fliers and maybe another class or two.
The problem with adding classes is that there really aren't any roles left unfilled as is.
Post by: Swordstar on April 01, 2014, 04:05:58 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 01, 2014, 04:26:24 pm
Btw I noticed that pirates and bandits get something else other than mountain/sea walk that now is actually useful, so if we give fencers and fighters a terrain independent (but not too good) special we could make them easy work.
One-shot challenge + pillar dodging seems fine to me now :x
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 01, 2014, 04:28:32 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 01, 2014, 04:30:39 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 02, 2014, 08:29:57 am
Do you people want to start working weapons or go do something else? :V
Post by: Furtuka on April 02, 2014, 10:22:09 am
Post by: birdy51 on April 02, 2014, 10:34:49 am
A Bestiary should probably be the main focus right away before anything, so that way campaigns that want to actively involve monsters have that ability to do so. But once that is done, we can focus on how the Laguz and other such creatures will work, using the Claws and Fangs from the Bestiary as a basis.
What do you mean by Third Tier Books though?
Post by: Solymr on April 02, 2014, 10:36:40 am
I'll put up a poll to ask what to put in the next poll.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 02, 2014, 10:37:09 am
Post by: Furtuka on April 02, 2014, 10:45:51 am
Hmm, though what would the Other Races in said book be? Aside from the Laguz the only ones I can think of is the Taguel and expanding on the Manaketes since the main book barely touches on them. And I guess maybe the Emiyu from Tear Ring Saga if you reeeaaaly want to stretch it, but they're just Manakete expys.
Edit:Oh! Theres whatever the heck the chameleon bishie from the Marth games was
Post by: birdy51 on April 02, 2014, 10:46:51 am
Post by: Solymr on April 02, 2014, 10:47:59 am
Post by: Furtuka on April 02, 2014, 10:49:58 am
Ah yes, I recall seeing those Third Classes now. Those would need a substantial bit of work though to be balanced well. It would be the epitome of a long term project.Well if we ever do manage to get it done... someone could run a big crossover veterans campaign where everyone brings in their old chracters maybe? cough cough Haspen
Post by: birdy51 on April 02, 2014, 10:51:12 am
Ah yes, I recall seeing those Third Classes now. Those would need a substantial bit of work though to be balanced well. It would be the epitome of a long term project.Well if we ever do manage to get it done... someone could run a big crossover veterans campaign where everyone brings in their old chracters maybe? cough cough Haspen
*Shrugs* T'would be interesting.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 02, 2014, 10:52:40 am
Oh well first classes got one vote let's do that :P
I am the Decider!
Post by: Haspen on April 02, 2014, 10:59:39 am
Post by: Solymr on April 02, 2014, 11:01:51 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 02, 2014, 11:14:20 am
Who voted for something different without saying what it issssssss
Two did it.
Post by: birdy51 on April 02, 2014, 11:36:46 am
Who voted for something different without saying what it issssssss
Two did it.
Oh right. Sorry bout that ^.^
I would still like the idea of a Bestiary, or a book of monsters as well as accompanying weapons. To me, this will then support the inclusion of Laguz later.
Post by: Solymr on April 02, 2014, 11:39:43 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 02, 2014, 11:42:16 am
Post by: Furtuka on April 02, 2014, 11:43:40 am
Post by: Haspen on April 02, 2014, 11:51:56 am
Post by: birdy51 on April 02, 2014, 11:52:33 am
They have sort of a rage bar of sorts that periodically allow them to shift during battle. They have no weapons, but their fangs, which upgrade with mastery of... Well, their fangs.
Post by: Furtuka on April 02, 2014, 11:53:19 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 02, 2014, 11:55:27 am
And theres some species that act more like bards
Herons.
Post by: Solymr on April 02, 2014, 02:04:25 pm
Post by: Haspen on April 02, 2014, 02:13:07 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I don't have progression rates but 'pluses' that indicate how strong the monster is in these stats. A high level monster with '+++' in STR, for example, would have it close to or at 20 points at max.level. A single '+' would at the same level give the monster 5 to 8 points, maybe 10. As you can see, most of monsters have terrible LCK and RES values.
Bases are in order of HP/STR/MAG/SKL/LCK/DEF/RES/SPD CON/MOV
Post by: Solymr on April 02, 2014, 02:26:19 pm
Why do people keep voting for races, I dun wanna do them :V
Post by: Furtuka on April 02, 2014, 10:57:47 pm
Welp (http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Laguz#Laguz_Game_Mechanics)
Post by: Solymr on April 03, 2014, 06:53:13 am
So on that note, who wants Manaketes/Laguz/other races to be playable classless characters?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 03, 2014, 07:02:04 am
The Radiant Dawn ruleset seems like it'd work best, but we'd have to be careful with balance there.
Post by: Solymr on April 03, 2014, 07:07:32 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 03, 2014, 07:09:11 am
Post by: Furtuka on April 03, 2014, 07:42:08 am
Laguz seem more like Manaketes than a whole nother race of playable characters :V
Meh, they're pretty different both mechanics and lore wise. Now the Taguel on the other hand are basically speed based versions of Manaketes. But killer bunnies~~~
If we do put this thing together it might be worth setting up the seperate manakete tribes.
...actually wait do manaketes use MAG or STR I've never been able to tell?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 03, 2014, 07:44:54 am
Post by: Solymr on April 03, 2014, 10:48:08 am
Trollpoll says to work on bestiary but I already put it on the list :o Does anyone want to change/add something?
Post by: Furtuka on April 03, 2014, 11:00:15 am
Post by: Solymr on April 03, 2014, 11:03:03 am
Post by: Xanmyral on April 03, 2014, 11:05:11 am
Post by: Solymr on April 03, 2014, 11:10:30 am
Man if the dragonstone wasn't used for every damn attack I would say make them able to promote to some special class or type or whatever and give them not so outrageous stats.
Post by: Furtuka on April 03, 2014, 11:11:24 am
And the Manakete in the guidebook was designed explicitly to be an NPC, the in game don't have growths at that level of obscene. And their level cap is at 30 instead of 20 since they don't promote. In awakening they. Kept up with stat boosts from promotions by using stronger dragonstones
The Laguz very strong, but the beast meter is meant to counteract since they are incredibly weak in human form. They have a level cap of 40.
Post by: Solymr on April 03, 2014, 11:23:34 am
Post by: Furtuka on April 03, 2014, 11:40:29 am
Though even if they are all made playable, it is up to GM's discrection whther to use the book or not
Post by: Solymr on April 03, 2014, 11:52:59 am
Welp if that's that we should head back to the main book, which brings us back to the previous discussion :3
Post by: Furtuka on April 03, 2014, 11:55:19 am
Being a little hasty there aren't you?
Post by: Solymr on April 03, 2014, 12:00:57 pm
Just saying that we can discuss other races while the poll asks about main book stuff :3
Post by: birdy51 on April 03, 2014, 12:01:48 pm
From what I have seen, Laguz is an umbrella term for all the different types of were-people out there. For my own sake, I'm just going to go into the wiki and pull out the relevant information, as well as how I can remember them functioning from a Let's Play I had read earlier this year.
---
First up, we have the "Beast Tribe".
Spoiler: Beast Tribe (click to show/hide)
Since there are at least 4 different types of beast listed, there are at least 4 different type of Fang or Claw "weapons" that need to be made for them. It is my recommendations that Lions are excluded from being player characters, as they are incredibly powerful already, and don't exactly have much room for improvement. They tend to dominate all other classes. Cats, Tigers, and Wolves on the other hand can be balanced a bit more.
What is not listed here, is that these Beasts have an innate weakness to the Fire Subcategory of magic.
---
Then we have the illustrious "Bird Tribe".
Spoiler: Bird Tribe (click to show/hide)
Birds!!
For these fine fliers, we need a Beak weapon for Ravens and a Talon weapon for Hawks. Herons don't actually need weapons, since they are essentially just another flavor of Bard, but there are some ways that we can vary them from our current cast.
It is notable that even out of transformation, Hawks and Ravens can fly. Heron bards only fly when they transform. However, like all fliers, Wind Magic is effective against them. So watch out for that.
---
And then finally, The Noble Dragon Tribe.
Spoiler: Dragon Tribe (click to show/hide)
Dragons. Whoo boy... Well, they don't have dragonstones limiting them like the Manakete and they have different forms of breath attacks; Fire, Light, and Dark Breath. Still, I'm inclined to say that dragons really should never be considered for Player Characters because their status as "king of beasts", like the Lions. They just don't work quite as well from a player perspective in my mind, because they are meant to outshine all other creatures in the same way that Lions trump everything in their class. They would however, make excellent bosses or allies.
However, like their other counterparts; they are also weak against a brand of magic, with Thunder finally having it's day to play. Not sure if their breath is elemental or not.
---
As an addendum though, it should be noted that they also have different transformation rates. For instance, a Cat generally starts the battle with a relatively high transformation gauge, while Tigers have a longer time before they transform. This gave them different windows of effectiveness in game, and should be taken into account when creating characters.
It my further suggestion that these creatures should have their own sub categorizations on transformation, strength, and agility. For instance... Say we have three Cats.
Cat A - TG: 14/20 +3 STR
Cat B - TG: 16/20 +2 STR +5 to Hit and Evade
Cat C - TG: 18/20 +1 STR +10 to Hit and Evade
Cat A will take a longer period of time to transform, and is not as agile, but he's stronger.
Cat C will transform after a single turn and be ready to fight, but he is not as strong as Cat A is.
Cat B on the other hand rides the middle ground between time between transformations and relative strength.
All three of them are the same creature, but depending on their temperament, they have different stats and different times where they will transform. Faster, blitz type creatures transform quickly, while lumbering slower types will take a bit more time, but are absolutely ferocious when they do turn.
---
Some final notes now before I wrap up. Laguz also "level up" their respective weapons. For instance, a Laguz's fangs/claws/beak/ect will become more powerful as they go up class ranks. In the games, they apparently start with a A Rank in their respective appendage and can level up to SS, where they will become a lot stronger.
It also interesting to note that most untransformed Laguz also have the ability to counter when attacked at close range, although the damage they perform is considered rather pitiful. :P
---
Anyways, those are collective thoughts on the matter. Correct me where you can, and feel free to flesh any of this out better than I have. This is only a skeleton of what Laguz are and now it is just a matter of filling in the gaps.
Post by: Solymr on April 03, 2014, 12:10:23 pm
Post by: Furtuka on April 03, 2014, 12:11:11 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 03, 2014, 12:16:50 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 03, 2014, 12:17:10 pm
Post by: Furtuka on April 03, 2014, 12:18:28 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 03, 2014, 12:24:02 pm
Physical Laguz (beast tribe): sword-like (cat), lance-like (wolf), axe-like (tiger)
Magical Laguz (dragon tribe): anima, light and dark
Support Laguz (bird tribe): flying bards and something else (maybe ranged, healer and performer? physical is already covered by beast)
Post by: Furtuka on April 03, 2014, 12:26:10 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 03, 2014, 12:28:17 pm
Post by: Furtuka on April 03, 2014, 12:36:07 pm
Post by: birdy51 on April 03, 2014, 12:36:34 pm
The subcategory idea could very easily be scrapped though. It's mostly there to note that even among creatures of the same class there are some slight differences. It's mostly there for Birds, where there are only effectively two "fighting" types, Hawks and Ravens. It may be worth noting though, that Ravens could adopt more of "flying thief" personality wise.
In the game, they were regarded as the token "trickster" race you can't really trust, while Hawks could potentially take the full bore of the Birds on Offense category. Having them as a cross between rogues and other flying creatures could be interesting.
Post by: Solymr on April 03, 2014, 12:38:09 pm
Post by: birdy51 on April 03, 2014, 12:39:05 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 03, 2014, 12:41:34 pm
Post by: birdy51 on April 03, 2014, 03:26:46 pm
When that is done though, I'll take a look at Vika (http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Vika) and see if I can get a Raven class going. Naesalla and the Hawks will provide a basis for Progressions, while Vika will provide some form of base stats.
Post by: Furtuka on April 03, 2014, 03:32:41 pm
A note. I am in a bit of an inspired mood, so I am going to start looking into how one might integrate the Bird Tribe into the game, starting with the Hawks using Janaff http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Janaff and Ulki http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Ulki as a basis for my work. I'm not going to even bother with balancing Tibarn. Some things just can't be quantified, and Tibarn is one of them.
When that is done though, I'll take a look at Vika, http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Vika and see if I can get a Raven class going.
Use the [url] tag D:
Post by: birdy51 on April 03, 2014, 03:43:42 pm
Post by: Haspen on April 03, 2014, 03:45:00 pm
Code: [Select]
[url=link here]text here[/url]
Post by: birdy51 on April 03, 2014, 03:46:38 pm
Edit: Done.
Post by: Shoruke on April 03, 2014, 06:39:09 pm
...actually wait do manaketes use MAG or STR I've never been able to tell?They use STR, which makes it odd that Nowi can reclass into a mage. Her other option is to be a wyvern rider, which technically makes her a dragon riding a dragon. Nowi is weird ;)
As for the poll, I voted for Manaketes only, but I kinda want Laguz too (I'm just completely unfamiliar with them). The idea being that GMs should have the option available for their games.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 03, 2014, 06:51:28 pm
Post by: Furtuka on April 03, 2014, 06:55:21 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 03, 2014, 07:15:19 pm
Wasn't there already a system that had Laguz playable in it and it was based around 'build-your-own-class'?
Post by: Xanmyral on April 03, 2014, 07:27:56 pm
Post by: birdy51 on April 03, 2014, 07:53:47 pm
But, I think I'm close to that... And if I do finish I'll post the results. You guys feel free to discuss other stuff in the meantime though. ^.^ This may take a while.
Post by: birdy51 on April 03, 2014, 09:09:52 pm
I'll also post some info I found on transformation gauges for posterity, so people know what it takes to get transformed. This too can be modified.
Spoiler: Hawk (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Raven (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I may also see about making Lions PC friendly as well... I suddenly got the idea of them being leaders, akin to a Laguz flavored Hero or Mercenary with actives about inspiring nearby units. I might see what I can do with that.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 03, 2014, 09:18:11 pm
~~~
Anyway, back to Class discussion. Let's look at Mercenaries for a minute. I know Haspen doesn't really like the class ability as it is, so what can we do to change it to make a bit more GM friendly, as right now it requires a lot of position tracking, while still keeping it within the class' flavor?
Post by: freeformschooler on April 03, 2014, 09:19:43 pm
Spoiler: Example (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 03, 2014, 09:21:13 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 03, 2014, 09:26:56 pm
Commander seems pretty hardcore too. Maybe constrain rally a bit, since that could turn a difficult defense into a bit of a cakewalk.
Bounty Hunter hasn't seen any play here yet from what I've seen, and Omni Weapon seems crazy useful. Steal Weapon is probably a bit much, but it's hard to say, since most mooks generally carry inferior equipment to the PCs.
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 03, 2014, 09:53:05 pm
As for Scavengers, maybe 50 or the target's total levelx10, whichever is higher? But maybe only if they get the killing blow(LOOT THE CORPSES)? Scavenging doesn't seem like something you do to someone who's still alive, after all...
Commander I have like no idea. I was wondering if they might have some sort of extra high-ranged rejuvenate, but only for one person, or if they could Command someone/people to attack/move/other partial action?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 03, 2014, 10:08:42 pm
I like making scavengers kill to get the money. Good change there.
Post by: birdy51 on April 03, 2014, 10:35:51 pm
Maybe a Commander could mark one enemy per turn, and allies would get some form of bonus against them.
I like making scavengers kill to get the money. Good change there.
Indeed. That way, they are really "scavenging." We could have them play into this concept more by having them loot specific corpses, but that might be a tad bit immoral.
The single target idea sounds interesting for the Commander.
Post by: Solymr on April 04, 2014, 01:32:29 am
For scavengers the gold only on kill I like, this is what I thought for bounty hunter: on kill, they have a %chance of getting an item. Most of the times a vulnerary or even nothing, but also a small chance of getting a good weapon or a gem.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 04, 2014, 06:55:20 am
And we do still have Fencers and Fighters to do.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 04, 2014, 06:57:47 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 04, 2014, 07:01:53 am
But Rogues can already steal items an enemy has on them without needing to land a killing blow. Scavengers also only get money the first time they hit an enemy. I don't see any need to change them.
Thieves and Rogues can only steal unequipped items, which most enemies don't actually have in the first place, and the Scavenger has no statistical restrictions on who they can loot from.
I think we should hold off on dealing with the Class features of promoted units until we finish First class units.
Post by: Solymr on April 04, 2014, 07:03:00 am
So scavengers get ~50 gold on the first hit on an enemy and bounty hunters get ~200 or whatever scavengers have now on kill.
That way scavenger tree is like my avatar.
Anyways FENCERS/FIGHTERS. I had an idea for fighters but I forgot ><
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 04, 2014, 07:07:13 am
Don't be making changes just to be making changes, now.
Post by: Solymr on April 04, 2014, 07:14:19 am
Let's bring Challenge back to the table. Blade, how did it go again?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 04, 2014, 07:18:49 am
You just made your group 1000 coins. Which is a farily conservative estimate. If we dropped the amount down to 50/100 per hit, depending on class, you'd still be making enough to buy a couple weapons/one special weapon darn near every map.
Scavengers too useful to group finances, plz nerf.
@ Fighters need something else, but I'm not sure what. Making them sneaky tree ninjas is dumb, they wander around hitting people with axes for Critz sake. Maybe an inversion of the Mercenary skill? Except we're planning to change that.
The challenge thing: An idea I had for Fencer's (Though maybe it could work for Fighters if we decide Fencers should have something different), was that they could designate an enemy to challenge on the map. The fencer would gain a few bonuses against them, like increased Hit and Damage, and the enemy would do their best to attack the Fencer, and only the fencer so long as they had the option. The challenge is removed either when the target is dead, or if the Fencer moves in any way that increases distance between himself and the challenged unit. It gives the Fencer a skill that is useful on any map, and gives him a little battlefield control. As a one shot ability however, it may be limited. On the other hand, it'd be darn useful.
Post by: Solymr on April 04, 2014, 07:25:27 am
Here's something I thought right now for fighters (prone to be bad): they get bonus hit equal to bonus evade they get from any defensive terrain.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 04, 2014, 07:28:55 am
Besides, I don't really see a need to change the thief classes. You generally won't get more than one per game because you only really need one. Usually the only way you'd get an extra is like in Shaundra's case, where she classed into Spy.
Post by: Solymr on April 04, 2014, 07:32:30 am
Meanwhile spies need buff.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 04, 2014, 07:35:35 am
And most classes you'll only see one of per game, it doesn't make their abilities not broken.
If we change it to getting gold on a kill, we might actually want to increase the gold slightly, to compensate for the fact that Scavengers are not actually the beefiest of classes. I mean, sure, you'd need to do a bit more planning round to round to make sure a given enemy stays up long enough for the Scav to stab them, but I don't think that's unreasonable.
Spies do need buff. How about this?
Ambush: If the Spy starts his turn on defensive terrain, and moves to attack an enemy, he retains the defense bonuses from said terrain, and gets 15 hit and 1 damage for the attack.
Post by: Solymr on April 04, 2014, 07:37:49 am
And I thought Ambush denied counterattacks? :V
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 04, 2014, 07:40:00 am
Ye if it's like now the gold amount needs to go down a little. If on kill it needs to go up because it's hard to leave the last hit to a leetle guy.
And I thought Ambush denied counterattacks? :V
The Spy gets access to bows and swords. Most classes won't be able to counter a smart spy's initial attack in the first place.
Edit: Just realized my calculations for gold scavving only took into account the class tree base, not the total levelx10 bonus.
Christ. In the situation I wrote previously, if your group fights level 5 enemies, you make... 6000 coins. God DAMN.
Post by: Solymr on April 04, 2014, 07:41:42 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 04, 2014, 07:46:21 am
What about mages/axemen with throwing axes/lancemen with javelins?
Tough. Besides, a free Cancel is kind of cheap. And, with my suggestion, they get defensive bonuses too, so it's still a good attack.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 04, 2014, 07:55:14 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 04, 2014, 07:56:22 am
So leave it on first hit and 100 gold per. :V That's the lesser amount of the two listed in the handbook and ignores the whole total level thing.
Eh, it still seems a bit high.
Whatever, I think I'm willing to take that.
Post by: Solymr on April 04, 2014, 08:12:21 am
Post by: Shoruke on April 04, 2014, 11:26:24 am
What if we introduced a random element to the amount of money scavenged?
Enemy's Total Level = X
On kill, steal Xd50 gold
(or on first hit)
...Or something like that. Possible bonus points for scaling with level?
Level 1 mooks carry enough pocket change for a hot cross bun, but not a spare sword. Kill several and you can get a slim weapon, though!
Level 20 mooks, statistically, carry (20 * (50+1)/2 = ) 510 coins each; I won't claim to be intimately familiar with the FEF market prices, but if they're like Awakening, 3 kills gives you a really nice sword, and 5 can buy you a Speedwing if someone's got some for sale.
It might need some balancing (maybe make it Xd100 where X is 1/3 the enemy level?), but the random scavenge system could work.
Post by: Furtuka on April 04, 2014, 11:30:13 am
Post by: Solymr on April 04, 2014, 11:30:29 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 04, 2014, 11:34:19 am
GMs don't like rolling a lot of numbers. They're lazy :VGuilty as charged.
Post by: Haspen on April 04, 2014, 11:37:53 am
GMs don't like rolling a lot of numbers. They're lazy :VGuilty as charged.
I'm cutting down roll-needing content as much as I can and make memory-shortcuts wherever I can... so yeah, guilty as well ._.
Post by: Solymr on April 04, 2014, 11:38:51 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 04, 2014, 11:39:21 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 04, 2014, 11:43:11 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 04, 2014, 11:49:41 am
Post by: Haspen on April 04, 2014, 11:49:52 am
That and track the ten million variables for every fight.
The exact reason when I always plead and whine when people deviate from '+10 to something' type of personal skills :P
Post by: Solymr on April 04, 2014, 12:03:08 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 04, 2014, 12:06:52 pm
Btw is any of you going to make these changes active on your games?
Not changing the system midway through NoH, but the next game I eventually run will.
Post by: Haspen on April 04, 2014, 12:26:10 pm
Post by: Shoruke on April 04, 2014, 12:35:04 pm
Story of my life :'(
I totally get it though, whenever I try to GM something my own laziness always bites everyone.
Post by: scapheap on April 04, 2014, 12:56:17 pm
Btw is any of you going to make these changes active on your games?If I do, I'll put A note making that clear and they take effect next map so the group doesn't end up in a place were their plan become...'sue-a-side-del' by no fault of their own.
Post by: Shoruke on April 04, 2014, 01:12:35 pm
Btw is any of you going to make these changes active on your games?Might want to give the players a chance to reclass if you change any of their class features around.
Post by: Solymr on April 04, 2014, 01:14:23 pm
Post by: scapheap on April 04, 2014, 01:16:07 pm
Might want to give the players a chance to reclass if you change any of their class features around.It only be very minor things like the knight's armoured numbers that are making a mockery of the game.
Post by: Solymr on April 04, 2014, 01:22:53 pm
huehuehuehueMight want to give the players a chance to reclass if you change any of their class features around.It only be very minor things like the knight's armoured numbers that are making a mockery of the game.
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 04, 2014, 09:00:52 pm
I don't even know how you got that. Jeezus. Considering that enemies aren't considered(or wouldn't be considered, for this purpose) to have trainee levels unless they are specifically trainees, 10 enemies at level five at the cheap rates is 150x10=1500 gold. You put four times that.Ye if it's like now the gold amount needs to go down a little. If on kill it needs to go up because it's hard to leave the last hit to a leetle guy.
And I thought Ambush denied counterattacks? :V
The Spy gets access to bows and swords. Most classes won't be able to counter a smart spy's initial attack in the first place.
Edit: Just realized my calculations for gold scavving only took into account the class tree base, not the total levelx10 bonus.
Christ. In the situation I wrote previously, if your group fights level 5 enemies, you make... 6000 coins. God DAMN.
And for reference, my scavenger right now in Haspen's game has managed to get Scavenge to activate exactly three times now. We're halfway through the second chapter he's been in the game. So I've gotten, whoop-de-doo, 150 gold. Considering that the GM can make stuff cost whatever he wants, plus the fact that a level C or D weapon is what's meant to be used by the players during their first class times, as far as I can tell from the whole 'proficiencies at C and D level', which costs about as much as an enterprising scavenger can hope to make in a chapter? And he's supporting anywhere from seven to more than a dozen other people?
Put it in perspective, man.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 04, 2014, 09:12:03 pm
Still, your particular character's inability to land a hit is not reflective of all scavengers. Their physical weapon gives them the most accurate type in the game (swords), and magic for ranged attacking.
I don't think leaving that level money multiplier off and just making it 100 gold per enemy hit would be so unreasonable. And if a GM is price countering specifically to negate a class, something is wrong anyway.
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 04, 2014, 09:14:49 pm
As for my character's particular inability, if he had hit every single time he attacked, he would have gotten it to proc 4 times, instead of 3. >.> Not exactly the point I was making.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 04, 2014, 09:22:19 pm
Alternatively, 100 gold from first classes, and 200 from promoted units. It's not a wide scale, but not much work for the GM, which is important.
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 04, 2014, 10:12:57 pm
What do Manaketes count as, if they're enemies? I would think promoted class.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 04, 2014, 10:37:40 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 04, 2014, 10:42:30 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 04, 2014, 10:44:40 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 04, 2014, 10:57:27 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 04, 2014, 11:11:32 pm
Also, I meant with higher monetary gain. More risk(of it not procing), more reward.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 04, 2014, 11:17:28 pm
Post by: Haspen on April 05, 2014, 03:12:11 am
Post by: Solymr on April 05, 2014, 05:33:37 am
Are these numbers good?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 05, 2014, 06:43:30 am
But now that we've determined that, I think 100/200 is good. We could do a poll for the exact amount if opinion is divided.
Post by: Solymr on April 05, 2014, 06:46:21 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 05, 2014, 06:48:07 am
Plea to the GMs: give enemies more items to steal plz
I included plenty of vulneraries to steal last chapter :v
Post by: scapheap on April 05, 2014, 11:33:20 am
Plea to the GMs: give enemies more items to steal plzIf I had a thief, I would, but since an Scavenger lack steal, it needless busy work.
Post by: Solymr on April 06, 2014, 09:35:16 am
Now, what class should we see?
Post by: Shoruke on April 06, 2014, 06:21:41 pm
Now, what class should we see?Assuming you mean, "what class should we discuss and re-balance next", how about archers and their inexplicable daggers in 1.22? (which they don't have weapon proficiency for, can use when not equipped, and can't initiate attacks with, for some reason). There are tons of ways to make archers more survivable without invoking "because the rulebook says you can't do something that you are otherwise obviously able to do" as a restriction. For instance:
* Reaction Shot (active skill): Activate this skill instead of making an attack this round. During the next Enemy Phase, any time an enemy moves into any panel within your attack range, make an attack against him with -15 to hit. You may not target any target more than once per turn with this skill, and you may not double-attack regardless of your relative Attack Skill.
(turns archers into great backup for hold-the-line tactics, and gives them a circumstantial chance to counter on enemy turns without giving them a blanket 1-2 counterattack range. May be OP against enemy archers and mages, but again, using it at all requires the enemy to charge into your attack range, and they may choose not to)
* Nothin' to do but Dodge (passive skill): When attacked by an enemy who is not inside your counterattack range, you gain +20 to Evasion.
(Helps but isn't brokenly awesome. And it makes more sense than The Daggers of Bullschist)
* Point-Blank Shot (passive skill): You may use bows at a range of 1, but with a penalty of 1 Damage and 15 Accuracy.
(not my favorite option, since it kinda disrupts the feel of the game, but it's something that archers really should be able to do...)
* Luckily, My Meat Shield Will Protect Me (passive skill): If you are attacked when adjacent to an ally, there is a luck% chance that the attack will be directed at said ally, even if they are out of normal range for that attack. If you are adjacent to more than one ally, determine which for each attack individually.
(Hiding behind the meat shields or the walls, just like, you know, actual archers)
* Sniper's Nest (passive skill): Double the defensive benefits of terrain you are standing on.
(it's situational, it's strictly defensive, it's not broken, it makes sense, it's perfect.)
* Sniper Elite (passive skill): You hide after attacking when you can. If you attack from (and end your turn in) a forest, pillar, hill, or mountain tile, any enemy who is able to attack one of your allies may not target you on their turn.
(I think the wording is imperfect, but if you're in hiding and the enemy can target your friends, they cannot attack you on their turn. It would greatly change the "feel" of playing an archer, making them sneakier instead of relying on placement tactics to keep them safe, but at least you aren't forced to stand around in the open like a derp if you want to contribute to the fight)
* Prognostication (passive skill): You keep your eyes on the horizon, and when someone charges you, you have time to anticipate. If an enemy moves three spaces or more to attack you, you gain +20 Evasion against them for that round.
(it's a lot like Nothin' To Do But Dodge, above. Just more steely-eyed-Sniper style.)
* Premeditation (active skill): You may activate this skill once per battle. Reduce your MAG to 0, and receive an increase to SPD equal to half the MAG lost. On every subsequent turn, your MAG increases by 1 up to its normal amount, and every 2 turns your SPD decreases by 1 down to its normal amount.
(also has application as an offensive boost, allowing you to double-attack quick foes you might not otherwise be able to. Yay strategy!)
Bewsh. Lookit all them options. Maybe we need a poll (with "no ability" and "keep the daggers" as options). I'm not in any of the FEF games, so if the numbers need changing around, so be it. Maybe just add 10 EVA instead of 20. Maybe use a SPD% chance instead of LUK%. Maybe add MAG*3 to EVA instead of MAG/2 to SPD. I'm all for making archers less tactically unfeasible when there's no chokepoints, but can we please oh my gods not arm them with daggers made of bullschist and voodoo?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 06, 2014, 06:27:47 pm
Now, that said, I actually really like Reaction Shot. It gives Archers something that Nomads just don't have (we still need to get around to fixing the spy, lets come to a consensus on that next) other than the ability to use ballistae, and is good from both a flavor and practical standpoint. And we saw ballistae, what, once in FEF?
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 06, 2014, 06:38:37 pm
I had been considering an ability for the sniper that we could give to the archer instead.
Long Shot: DMG increased by 2 for every tile between the target and the attacker
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 06, 2014, 06:55:46 pm
We aren't basing ourselves on 1.22. The class abilities in it are ridiculous.
I had been considering an ability for the sniper that we could give to the archer instead.
Long Shot: DMG increased by 2 for every tile between the target and the attacker
Ballistae.
Also, that's basically two free damage at almost all times.
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 06, 2014, 06:59:27 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 06, 2014, 07:31:22 pm
Except with crossbows. Your point?
Ballistae would allow the skill to add up to 20 damage.
I don't think Archers have problems with their potential damage on the whole.
Post by: Xanmyral on April 06, 2014, 07:59:32 pm
As for use of stuff talked about here in game, some I'll use, some I won't. I'll be using things that haven't been brought up here as well, too.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 06, 2014, 08:08:02 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 06, 2014, 08:56:17 pm
Except with crossbows. Your point?
Ballistae would allow the skill to add up to 20 damage.
I don't think Archers have problems with their potential damage on the whole.
Ballista are meant to be fairly powerful realistically, but I see your point.
And I don't know if buckle down is the right word. It wouldn't be that hard, and besides, all that's really needed is for GMs to give a shit about Fog of War.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 06, 2014, 10:40:05 pm
As for Fog of War, it's not really conducive to a Play by Post environment. Each player has their own line of sight, and no one is going to want to make moves before finding out what another player sees. So the turns would slow to a crawl as each move is processed, new information is reported, and people begin to consider their moves all over again.
For a few turns at a time, maybe. With small groups, maybe. But for most games, it's just gonna be a pain, and won't be used.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 06, 2014, 10:48:52 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 06, 2014, 10:57:52 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 06, 2014, 11:01:51 pm
Or maybe Spies could get Locktouch like a Rogue, freeing up an inventory space and making up for the fact that they can't actively steal like a thief. Flavor it as them having gotten a copy of the key from a contact, or noticing the welcome mat where they hide the spare key.
Once we decide what Spies do, we can figure out Master Spies.
What about the ability to 'teleport' once per battle? Like a 'I was really here all along!' thing?
In a game that relies on positioning almost as much as prayers to the various Random Number Gods? I don't think so.
Post by: Shoruke on April 06, 2014, 11:09:51 pm
"The enemy knights all position their lances a certain way when they line up like that. Dodge right when they attack you."
"The archers are aiming high. Be ready to drop to the ground."
Post by: Xanmyral on April 06, 2014, 11:16:22 pm
Probably not transferable to many other games, admittedly, since it's largely GM dependent and I tend to do weird stuff in my games (Tasik, for instance). Would give spied quite a punch and zest though, since with that only they could tell you who's behind a wall.
Post by: Solymr on April 07, 2014, 06:00:47 am
Or some sort of conceal/invisibility effect.
Post by: Shoruke on April 07, 2014, 08:51:58 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 07, 2014, 08:54:51 am
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/Static_Jester/CSANormal_zps1b340498.png) (http://pastebin.com/H4qfW4cF) *scatters some caltrops at the bottom of a flight of stairs* "Don't mind me, just planning ahead."
For example. :P
EDIT: And that rolls nicely for Master Spy, since it could have the same thing, but better. Like higher damage traps, or ones that last for more than one use, or maybe he can choose what it does instead of damage (like the caltrops example could lower MOV for a few turns)...
Post by: Solymr on April 07, 2014, 08:57:25 am
Traps are a good idea though if you can bait enemies into stepping on it. Provoke ftw.
Post by: birdy51 on April 07, 2014, 09:05:03 am
However, instead attaching them to the character alone; perhaps it would be good to have a series of "trap" items useable only by Spies and the Forest Knight, giving people incentive to try both characters as they are currently sorely in need of love.
Post by: Solymr on April 07, 2014, 09:07:37 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 07, 2014, 09:10:18 am
Or we could just forget the FK's trap ability (meaning S/MS could set traps anywhere) and instead just give him an ability that increases the DEF and EVA of whatever defensive terrain he's on by +1/+5 respectively, which isn't bad.
Post by: birdy51 on April 07, 2014, 09:15:10 am
I'm not sure if separating the traps by outdoors/indoors would be the right idea, since that makes it a bit binary, but perhaps giving them different types of traps would be sufficient. Spies with a focus on efficient hamstringing and disabling, while the Forest Knight traps are focused a bit more on pain, but not as efficient. Bear Trap vs. Caltrops essentially, in that Spy traps have the potential to strike many but with smaller effect, while Forest Knight traps are focused on bringing the smack down on one unfortunate soul.
Post by: Solymr on April 07, 2014, 09:17:49 am
I think Conceal/Invisibility fits the Spy more and Traps for the Forest Knight/Fighter/whatever.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 07, 2014, 09:21:50 am
This is true. My intention was giving them both traps, but if that is the case, there needs to be incentive to go for Forest Knight over the Master Spy.
I'm not sure if separating the traps by outdoors/indoors would be the right idea, since that makes it a bit binary, but perhaps giving them different types of traps would be sufficient. Spies with a focus on efficient hamstringing and disabling, while the Forest Knight traps are focused a bit more on pain, but not as efficient. Bear Trap vs. Caltrops essentially, in that Spy traps have the potential to strike many but with smaller effect, while Forest Knight traps are focused on bringing the smack down on one unfortunate soul.
I like this. And it does eliminate terrain dependencies.
Post by: Shoruke on April 07, 2014, 10:04:22 am
Seconded.This is true. My intention was giving them both traps, but if that is the case, there needs to be incentive to go for Forest Knight over the Master Spy.
I'm not sure if separating the traps by outdoors/indoors would be the right idea, since that makes it a bit binary, but perhaps giving them different types of traps would be sufficient. Spies with a focus on efficient hamstringing and disabling, while the Forest Knight traps are focused a bit more on pain, but not as efficient. Bear Trap vs. Caltrops essentially, in that Spy traps have the potential to strike many but with smaller effect, while Forest Knight traps are focused on bringing the smack down on one unfortunate soul.
I like this. And it does eliminate terrain dependencies.
But how do we implement this from an inventory Point-of-View? Do spies/ forest knights conjure this crap out of nowhere as a class ability, or must they buy traps at the store, or should they carry around "trap components" and decide what trap to make on the fly? Or some other option?
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 07, 2014, 10:07:28 am
I'm thinking three, myself.
Post by: birdy51 on April 07, 2014, 10:11:10 am
Post by: Shoruke on April 07, 2014, 10:54:02 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 07, 2014, 11:00:06 am
...Maybe only if they have the same ability. If MSes get a larger variety of effects, which is what I think is better, then they could stay at 3 too.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 07, 2014, 11:00:40 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 07, 2014, 11:02:57 am
Post by: birdy51 on April 07, 2014, 11:07:27 am
Post by: Solymr on April 07, 2014, 11:11:32 am
I like it, but is it enough for Spy/Master Spy? What do we give the fighter that *kinda* could be complimented by traps?
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 07, 2014, 11:13:14 am
Post by: Solymr on April 07, 2014, 11:16:47 am
Probably PS' traps like the poison cannon are good ideas.
Post by: Shoruke on April 07, 2014, 11:17:31 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 07, 2014, 11:18:04 am
My understanding was that forest knights would have single-use traps that do noticable direct damage (and maybe immobilization), while spies would have traps that can affect more than one target and are more utility-type effects (less damage, but a wider variety of status effects).
I like dis.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 07, 2014, 11:18:51 am
Jeez. I use caltrops an example and now that's like all people are thinking of. What about classics like rigging a crossbow trap, or an oil slick, or other things? :VCaltrops are easy to carry and set. Plus crossbows deal direct damage.
Post by: birdy51 on April 07, 2014, 11:30:27 am
Post by: Shoruke on April 07, 2014, 11:31:42 am
I'd make a list of ideas, but I'm going to go write a midterm in an hour, so... yeah.
(got ninja'd, people are starting to answer that question already. Go you guys!)
Post by: Solymr on April 07, 2014, 11:32:14 am
Omg these ninjas
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 07, 2014, 11:33:06 am
I would say Assassins just get to keep what Spies can do, but Master Spies get better traps.
Post by: birdy51 on April 07, 2014, 11:34:03 am
I think while Master Spies will be better with traps than Assassins, having traps doesn't detract from being an Assassin.
Also, ninja'd.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 07, 2014, 11:35:03 am
I would say Assassins just get to keep what Spies can do, but Master Spies get better traps.
Better and maybe more uses?
Post by: Solymr on April 07, 2014, 11:36:13 am
Assassins get assassination and Master spies just get some traps? Feels kinda underwhelming at least for me. If we could make petrifying or paralyzing traps maybe but those would be mucho OP.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 07, 2014, 11:36:22 am
@Ninja Solymr: It gives you a reason to make a non-crit-based build as a Spy, though. Take Celerity, make a defensive/healer build, and you can run around healing your allies, debuffing your foes, and opening doors and treasure chests. It makes you a GREAT support character.
Post by: birdy51 on April 07, 2014, 11:40:56 am
Suddenly, NINJAS.
But I think Assassins have it well enough already, and if you are going to go Assassin, it's usually so you can kill people in style. Adding traps won't effect them too much.
Post by: Solymr on April 07, 2014, 11:44:07 am
In what class would fit setting up a tent that works as a fortress, healing people in them each turn?
NINJAS: Assassins lose one of their weapons when they promote, should they lose traps too?
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 07, 2014, 11:47:08 am
I think they only get one weapon set upgraded, not lose one. That doesn't make much sense. :P
Post by: Solymr on April 07, 2014, 11:49:09 am
Birdy gave me another idea: Decoy.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 07, 2014, 11:50:23 am
Post by: Solymr on April 07, 2014, 11:54:10 am
Decoys would be dummies that get the enemies to attack them (except spies who can disarm them). Dunno if they should get the same stats as the spy. Tankspy op.
This is gonna be so complicated to ask in the poll, I think I'll have to use a bitfield.
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 07, 2014, 12:01:07 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 07, 2014, 12:02:53 pm
And they can attack and dodge and that, I don't think Decoys can.
Post by: Shoruke on April 07, 2014, 12:05:55 pm
Assassins get assassination and Master spies just get some traps? Feels kinda underwhelming at least for me. If we could make petrifying or paralyzing traps maybe but those would be mucho OP.
But I think Assassins have it well enough already, and if you are going to go Assassin, it's usually so you can kill people in style. Adding traps won't effect them too much.
Seems pretty clear-cut to me.
Spy promotes to Assassin: keeps 1st-tier traps, learns assassination.
Spy promotes to Master Spy: keeps 1st-tier traps, gets more trap variety and maybe more uses per battle.
Post by: birdy51 on April 07, 2014, 12:06:50 pm
For each battle, they have 3/3 "tricks". Providing they have corresponding item, whether it be caltrops, runes, decoy rings, or what have you, you may use them in any way you like. But once you use three, no more. Master Spies would instead of course have 5/5 and more variety, and the Forest Knight would have access to other, more painful traps.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 07, 2014, 12:07:38 pm
and as ninja'd by Birdy, except I'm still not a fan of needing items. :P It's either (three per battle) or (as many uses of x item as you want) and three per battle is much easier to keep track of.
Post by: birdy51 on April 07, 2014, 12:08:23 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 07, 2014, 12:10:55 pm
Forest knights should be kept apart cause they're pretty different from spies.
5 for Master spies and 3 for the others seems nice. Maybe Master Spies could replenish them?
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 07, 2014, 12:12:17 pm
Post by: birdy51 on April 07, 2014, 12:12:31 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 07, 2014, 12:13:27 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 07, 2014, 12:13:55 pm
Replenish on kill, spend an action to make a new one... Iunno
Post by: birdy51 on April 07, 2014, 12:15:55 pm
With an average of 2 people effected by trap, that's a potential 10 people who will be gripping their feet in pain, if not more.
Post by: Solymr on April 07, 2014, 12:17:59 pm
Post by: Shoruke on April 07, 2014, 02:25:23 pm
Step 2: fill entrance to chokepoint with trap
Step 3: Put meat shield / blink tank behind chokepoint
Step 4: Profit ...?
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 07, 2014, 04:43:06 pm
Most of the reason I don't think it fits, by the way, is that spies seem like they're meant to be offensive, what with being scouts and info-gatherers, while traps are defensive. Which would mean that in Infiltration missions...yeah.
Anyway, how about Mercs, Snipers, Wyvern Knights(did we ever come to a concensus about Wyvern Riders, by the way?), Character Skills, Bounty Hunters, Commanders, Soldiers, etc.? I'm thinking of all the units/things Haspen made changes to.
Post by: birdy51 on April 07, 2014, 05:04:13 pm
To me, a spy isn't someone who is good in a straight up fight or lightning fast, but someone who knows how to even the odds by any means necessary. For instance, take a look at say, James Bond. He's not really a juggernaut, nor is he necessarily a overly strong or fast man. What he is however, is tricky. He'll find someone way to use the environment against the enemy; to set a trap or an ambush that turns the table and gives him the advantage, usually by a strategically placed device or a well aimed shot. Mooks will walk right into his hand, and then "WHAM!"
Out cold.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 07, 2014, 05:08:24 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 07, 2014, 05:10:17 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 07, 2014, 07:31:19 pm
And I say teleport because that's what it is mechanically, basically. Maybe only out of defensive terrain or buildings(or barrels/impassable terrain?), but fluff-wise, I'm thinking of it like "Ah, but I was really over here, you fool! That's just my decoy/illusion!"
EDIT: and really, my original idea for that was that they could start anywhere on the map, so kindof a teleport but only on turn 1. Like they infiltrated the place beforehand.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 07, 2014, 07:39:34 pm
And the trouble with information gathering being a Spy's specialty is that there's not really information to gather, except in RP.
Post by: Shoruke on April 07, 2014, 07:53:00 pm
Traps work better, if for no reason other than they make the "intelligence business" people fight with their intelligence.
Time to brainstorm types of traps? We'll come up with some ideas and then pick which ones Spies / Master Spies should have available, and how many.
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 07, 2014, 08:02:00 pm
So, what types of traps? Since it's a first class and this is kindof a powerful ability, I'm thinking maybe just two, maybe three types.
Caltrops: Invisible to enemies, any units passing over it get -2 MOV for X turns(-4 for horse mounted units, no effect on fliers; this may cause units to stop in place). (Non flier) Units on the square get -15 Hit and Evade, -1 DEF/RES.
Flash Powder: Invisible to enemies, any units passing over it get -20 Hit and Evade and -2 DEF/RES for X turns. Disappears after Y activations.
Toxic Incense: Visible to enemies, any units that end their turn within 2 spaces of it have ([20-CON]*5)% chance of being Poisoned.
Post by: Shoruke on April 07, 2014, 08:11:09 pm
* Caltrops: Upon entering space, target has 85% chance to be affected by caltrops (Evasion does not apply). On hit, target takes 3 damage and has their MOV reduced by 2 for 3 turns.
* Oil: Enemies who enter space take -10 to Evasion and +5 damage from fire spells for 3 turns.
* Decoy: Summon an ally Dummy, with 1 HP, 0 in all stats (except CON, which is considered equal to that of the Spy), and no equipment. If you spend another turn rigging the Dummy with a second trap, the enemy that destroys the dummy is unavoidably targeted by that trap.
* Fire Rune: Requires the Spy to have a Fire Anima tome in their inventory; subtract 5 QL from the tome upon use. 100% - target's Evasion chance to hit. Deals damage equal to the Mt of the fire tome used (do not add the Spy's MAG to damage).
* Galespot: Requires the Spy to have a Wind Anima tome in their inventory; subtract 5 QL from the tome upon use. This tile requires 3 MOV to pass through. Archers take -30 to hit when shooting into or through this space (does not block diagonals).
* Serrated Discs: 100% - target's Evasion chance to hit. Deals 5 damage.
(we're B12, you want us to have NO Dwarf Fortress references? :P)
* Poisoned Caltrops: flat 85% chance to hit, no Evasion. Target is poisoned on hit.
Just some ideas. May or may not need balancing tweaks.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 07, 2014, 08:15:19 pm
Meh, alright.
So, what types of traps? Since it's a first class and this is kindof a powerful ability, I'm thinking maybe just two, maybe three types.
Caltrops: Invisible to enemies, any units passing over it get -2 MOV for X turns(-4 for horse mounted units, no effect on fliers; this may cause units to stop in place). (Non flier) Units on the square get -15 Hit and Evade, -1 DEF/RES.
Flash Powder: Invisible to enemies, any units passing over it get -20 Hit and Evade and -2 DEF/RES for X turns. Disappears after Y activations.
Toxic Incense: Visible to enemies, any units that end their turn within 2 spaces of it have ([20-CON]*5)% chance of being Poisoned.
Caltrops looks good, Flash Powder should probably be limited to one activation.
Not sure I like Toxic Incense.
@Shoruke: Nuuuuu, not more rolling!
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 07, 2014, 08:35:12 pm
Oil Slick: Invisible to enemies until activated, first unit to pass over tile gets -2 MOV and takes effective damage from Fire Magic for X turns. Once activated, negates any defensive bonuses of tile it is on, and units on tile get -10 Hit and Evade, movement cost of terrain doubles, if on Stairs, quadruples, costs adjusted movement cost of terrain to get off of. If attacked by Fire Magic, becomes Burning Oil(like burning rubble/forest fire whatever, in addition to normal properties of Oil Slick) for 3 turns, then disappears. Units on tile take +5 Damage from Fire Magic.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 07, 2014, 08:37:18 pm
Post by: Shoruke on April 07, 2014, 08:37:45 pm
Oil Slick: Invisible to enemies until activated, first unit to pass over tile gets -2 MOV and takes effective damage from Fire Magic for X turns. Once activated, negates any defensive bonuses of tile it is on, and units on tile get -10 Hit and Evade, movement cost of terrain doubles, if on Stairs, quadruples, costs adjusted movement cost of terrain to get off of. If attacked by Fire Magic, becomes Burning Oil(like burning rubble/forest fire whatever, in addition to normal properties of Oil Slick) for 3 turns, then disappears. Units on tile take +5 Damage from Fire Magic.
Wooooah, so many contingent rules.
If we want to mod my suggestions to not have rolls (auto-hit, flat damage, etc.) then that's fine with me.
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 07, 2014, 08:46:19 pm
Smoke Bombs: Instead of taking an action, a Spy may throw down a smoke bomb. This uses up one of his traps, but makes him invisible for the next two turns, or they take an action, whichever comes first. Spies may move after throwing a smoke bomb rather than before, if they wish.
Post by: Shoruke on April 07, 2014, 09:20:16 pm
(not necessarily good ones, but I try)
* Spellrune: Lose 5QL from an Anima or Dark tome in the Spy's inventory upon setup. Enemies who enter the square are targetted by an attack from that tome (do not apply Spy's SKL or MAG).
* Acid bomb: Single activation. Target takes 3 unavoidable damage. If they have a physical weapon equipped, its Mt is reduced by 2 and its QL is reduced by 10.
* Fake-Out Sign: Leave a note hinting at traps / treasure / etc. that do not actually exist, or just a cryptic message that's difficult to decipher. Enemy's movement ends in this square. Cannot affect a given enemy more than once.
* Acrid Smoke: Single activation. Target and anyone adjacent take effective damage once, if it is before the end of their next turn.
* Holy Water: If target is equipped with a Dark magic tome, they suffer -15 to hit for 3 turns.
* Unholy Water: If target is equipped with an Anima tome, they suffer -15 to hit for 3 turns.
* MagiConductive Water: Target takes -15 Evasion and +5 damage against Thunder anima tomes for 3 turns.
* HEY LOOK, A COIN! Oh, it's fake: Enemies use 1 extra movement to enter this tile.
* HEY LOOK, A MUFFIN: Single activation. Target ends turn in this square, and is poisoned at the beginning of their next turn (substitute "apple", "cookie", "candy", or "pie" for "muffin" as necessary)
* Fake Ultimate Weapon: Single activation. Choose a weapon type; trap does not activate for anyone without weapon ranks in that weapon type. Enemy automatically equips weapon with 0 Mt.
...I should stop, my ideas are becoming sillier. Someone else's turn.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 07, 2014, 09:24:33 pm
"Oh look here's a green rice ball that wasn't here a second ago better nom it aw fuck"
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 07, 2014, 11:28:20 pm
Poison Needle: Persistent. Enemy units that enter this square are poisoned for 3 turns.
Caltrops: Persistent. Units that enter this square lose 2 move for 3 turns. Mounted units lose 4 move. Units on the square suffer -15 evade.
Flash Powder: Persistent until activated. Enemy units that enter this square suffer -20 hit and evade for 3 turns. Affects Fliers.
Some for Master Spy level only. Every 3rd level of Master Spy, they can add another trap to their repertoire. So, for that idea, we need at least 7 traps.
Oil Slick: Persistent. Units that enter this square lose 2 move and take effective damage from fire spells for three rounds. If a unit standing on the tile is attacked with a fire tome, the tile catches fire, and changes to an inferno space.
Inferno: Lasts 3 rounds. Units entering this square take 5-10 Damage. Cannot be deployed. Affects Fliers.
Magic Jammer: Persistent. Any magical attack made from this square takes a -15 penalty to hit and -3 to Damage.
Decoy: Special. Places a unit. Enemies will treat it as an armed ally. Is destroyed when attacked. Affects Fliers.
Spellrune: Single Use. The Spy uses 1 QL from a tome in their inventory. When an enemy enters the space, they forfeit any remaining move and are attacked as if by the spell. The Spy's stats do not influence the attack. Affects Fliers.
Galespot: Persistent: The Spy uses 5 QL from a wind Anima tome in their inventory. The move cost of the tile increases by 2. Affects Fliers, and increases the move cost by 4 for them.
Also, I suggest that Rogues and Spies get a skill to detect enemy traps. Also also, I suggest Rogues get a Disarm Trap skill.
Post by: Solymr on April 08, 2014, 03:03:32 am
They need DEF and RES shredding traps, paralyzing traps and maybe STR and MAG reducing traps.
Also Primed Decoy: the enemy that destroys this gets ~3 fire damage. This can trigger the Oil stuff.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 08, 2014, 06:53:56 am
Why do they need magic tomes?!
They need DEF and RES shredding traps, paralyzing traps and maybe STR and MAG reducing traps.
This. The only dedicated 'debuffer' class is the dancer and they have much better things to be doing than debuffing. Spies being able to debuff and inflict status effects makes them useful enough to compete with the other promotion trees of Thief and Archer beyond muh critz Assassins. :P
Post by: birdy51 on April 08, 2014, 07:21:59 am
Although the idea of a magic based trap master has struck me as something possible... But I'm certain that what we have now will already be just fine. :P
Post by: Solymr on April 08, 2014, 07:30:05 am
Sages get S anima and nothing else, and there's a new promotion option called Archmage that can use all magic. One of them gets Call Magic and the other Magic rune and/or maybe something else.
But that's for later.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 08, 2014, 09:26:42 am
Why do they need magic tomes?!
Because Spies don't get magic. Clearly.
Now that I'm looking at the Spellrune one in daylight though, it doesn't look worthwhile at all. Galespot could still be good though. I'll work on churning out some more, focusing a bit more on actual status effects.
Auto-Sapper: Persistent. Enemy Units that enter this space have a 50% chance of being afflicted with Sleep for 3 turns.
Gorgon's Eye: Single use. The Enemy unit that enters this space is turned to stone for 5 turns.
Loco Weed: Single use. The Enemy unit that enters this space is Berserked for 3 turns.
Tetanus: Persistent. Enemy units that enter this space are paralyzed next turn.
Sonic Distorter: Single use. The Enemy unit that enters this space is Silenced for 5 turns. Affects Fliers.
And how do we feel about this?
Also, I suggest that Rogues and Spies get a skill to detect enemy traps. Also also, I suggest Rogues get a Disarm Trap skill.
Post by: birdy51 on April 08, 2014, 09:53:52 am
Something along the lines of say, rogue or spy walks onto a space; trap is disarmed and destroyed. It would give a bit of counter play against them, which is important.
Post by: Shoruke on April 08, 2014, 10:19:37 am
Another trap idea?!? (in response to the suggestion that Spy traps be more debuff-y, which I agree with)
* Nauseating Gas: Target takes -3 DEF and -5 EVA for 3 turns.
We could also make MagiConductive water make the target more susceptible to all magic, instead of just thunder anima? -10 Evasion and +3 damage from all incoming (harmful) magic.
If Spies had Nauseating Gas, Acid Bomb, MagiConductive Water, Caltrops (of some sort), and the Primed Decoy, and could use any one of those 5 three times per battle, that sounds reasonable to me. They're adaptable to most situations and can contribute to combat meaningfully without being able to solve absolutely everything in one round. Their tactics will still rely on having strong friends nearby to deal with the enemies that make it through the traps.
Then Master Spies can have Blade Master's hardcore status effect traps like Sleep, Berserk, Paralysis, and maybe a beefed-up Galespot (+3 MOV cost to enter panel; insta-chokepoint, +5 for fliers; instant chokepoint) and get two or three more uses per battle.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 08, 2014, 10:43:11 am
I think it's only fair.
Something along the lines of say, rogue or spy walks onto a space; trap is disarmed and destroyed. It would give a bit of counter play against them, which is important.
I think they should have to stand next to it and spend their action to disarm it. It's a bit too easy otherwise.
@Shoruke: Yeah, the ones I suggested in my last post are all Master Spy only.
Post by: Haspen on April 08, 2014, 10:44:58 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 08, 2014, 11:00:27 am
They could step on it and like, lose all MOV on a frantic, instantenous disarming before it goes off under their feet :P
I disagree. It should be something they have to spend time doing. Also, Rogues should still be susceptible to traps if they decide they want to not bother disarming them for some reason.
Post by: Solymr on April 08, 2014, 11:16:51 am
@Blade: what does Silence do again? :V
Also disarming traps should take an action. But detecting traps on the first place... Think the poison cannons in GoR, they were CLEARLY visible and yet some of us kept getting poisoned :x
Post by: Haspen on April 08, 2014, 11:27:58 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 08, 2014, 11:28:29 am
It should also stop Silenced units from relaying tactical information. So if Olison had been Silenced the turn before the reinforcements showed up, he wouldn't have been able to say anything.
I think Spies, their promotions, and Rogues should be the only ones seeing traps.
ninja'd.
Post by: darkpaladin109 on April 08, 2014, 11:31:11 am
@Blade: what does Silence do again? :VIt stops you from using any type of magic.
Also disarming traps should take an action. But detecting traps on the first place... Think the poison cannons in GoR, they were CLEARLY visible and yet some of us kept getting poisoned :x
Post by: Solymr on April 08, 2014, 11:41:11 am
How about making it Disable (not able to make actions, but able to move)?
Post by: Solymr on April 08, 2014, 12:25:18 pm
Spy tier
Quote
Poison Needle: Persistent. Enemy units that enter this square are poisoned for 3 turns.
Quote
Caltrops: Persistent. Units that enter this square lose 2 move for 3 turns. Mounted units lose 4 move. Units on the square suffer -15 evade.
Quote
Flash Powder: Persistent until activated (does this mean one shot?). Enemy units that enter this square suffer -20 hit and evade for 3 turns. Affects Fliers.
Master spy tier
Spoiler: Mechanics (click to show/hide)
Quote
Oil Slick: Persistent. Units that enter this square lose 2 move and take effective damage from fire spells for three rounds. If a unit standing on the tile is attacked with a fire tome, the tile catches fire, and changes to an inferno space.
Quote
Nauseating Gas: Target takes -3 DEF and -5~10 EVA for 3 turns.
Quote
MagiConductive Water: Target takes -3 RES and -5~10 EVA for 3 turns.
Quote
Auto-Sapper: Persistent. Enemy Units that enter this space have a 50% chance of being afflicted with Sleep for 3 turns.
Quote
Gorgon's Eye: Single use. The Enemy unit that enters this space is turned to stone for 5 turns.
Quote
Loco Weed: Single use. The Enemy unit that enters this space is Berserked for 3 turns.
Quote
Tetanus: Persistent. Enemy units that enter this space are paralyzed next turn.
Quote
Sonic Distorter/Disruptor(whatever, a horrible noise that hurts the brain): Single use. The Enemy unit that enters this space is Silenced(Disabled?) for 5 turns. Affects Fliers.
Quote
Primed Decoy: places a dummy with 1 HP. The enemy that hits it gets ~scratch fire damage. If the target is Oiled they both asplode with fatal consequences.
Quote
Glue: Persistent. The move cost of the tile increases by 3. Doesn't affect fliers.
Did I forget anyone?
I think Flash Powder may be too powerful and Caltrops and Oil Slick could be more different.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 08, 2014, 12:31:52 pm
Post by: birdy51 on April 08, 2014, 12:39:44 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 08, 2014, 12:45:47 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 08, 2014, 12:49:47 pm
Also disable only for 3 turns then.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 08, 2014, 12:52:29 pm
Keep in mind berserks attack anyone, not just their own.
Also disable only for 3 turns then.
Yeah, that was something that always bothered me in Haspen's games. Berserked characters should attack the closest enemy in reach, and only if there are no enemies in reach should they attack allies. And I think in the games, Berserked character actions were resolved at the end of the Player Phase.
Edit: For both nauseating gas and magiconductive water, are those persistent or single use? Seems like they should be persistent to me.
Post by: Solymr on April 08, 2014, 01:11:35 pm
I should put that list on the OP.
Post by: Shoruke on April 08, 2014, 01:47:10 pm
Recap of all proposed traps:
<snip>
Did I forget anyone?
Seems odd that Primed Decoy, Glue, and Oil Slick are Master-tier. Why would you place a Glue trap when you could place Tetanus?
Maybe Decoy should be a Spy ability that gets upgraded to Primed Decoy upon advancement to Master Spy?
And I agree with birdy about not letting people pick their traps every level. Ideally, we could round the list down to like, 3 or 4 entries that all Master Spies just always have. Personally, I like Nauseating Gas, MagiConductive Water, Primed Decoy, Auto-Sapper, and Loco-Weed.
Another option is to make a level-based list and grant Master Spies access to traps at certain levels, as an analogue to Call Spell / Call Magic. So you get Oil Slick at level 1, Primed Decoy at level 3, something else at level 6...
Post by: Solymr on April 08, 2014, 01:50:18 pm
Also call magic is getting a change too :V
Post by: Solymr on April 08, 2014, 02:00:20 pm
Post by: Haspen on April 08, 2014, 02:06:19 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 08, 2014, 02:07:18 pm
And the thing about giving Master Spies the variety of traps is they can choose how they wish to address the enemy forces. Just a couple elite enemies? Drop a Loco Weed and let them soften each other up. Mob of mooks coming to wear you down? Glue a tile and watch as one of their entryways clogs like a bad drain. We could reduce it to just a few options that are universal to all Master spies... But what's the fun in that? And more importantly, why would all master spies be the same?
Post by: Solymr on April 08, 2014, 02:08:35 pm
Edit: dammit haspoon
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 08, 2014, 02:54:17 pm
Post by: Shoruke on April 08, 2014, 03:04:31 pm
Other than that, looks good!
Post by: Haspen on April 08, 2014, 03:05:25 pm
So... Who doesn't like the spy traps? What complaints do you have?
I did :P
Because it's only more work for me as GM.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 08, 2014, 03:09:06 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 08, 2014, 03:09:32 pm
Fog of war wouldn't be worse work though?
Post by: darkpaladin109 on April 08, 2014, 03:11:28 pm
Whatever the case, I like the idea of spy traps. Needs some refinements on the effects of some traps and how exactly setting traps will work, but that's about it.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 08, 2014, 03:13:07 pm
Oh come on man >.>
Fog of war wouldn't be worse work though?
Fog of War is the worst. This is a far superior alternative.
@dp: To set a trap, a spy will move to a space adjacent to the space they wish to trap, and then spend their action placing it. They cannot attack, use an item, or rescue in the same round, though they can still trade.
Post by: Solymr on April 08, 2014, 03:48:15 pm
What refinements do you propose?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 08, 2014, 04:12:56 pm
Should we specify that Spies always get lockpick, or give spies something better?
Post by: Haspen on April 08, 2014, 04:16:22 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 08, 2014, 04:18:55 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on April 08, 2014, 05:07:44 pm
Entirety of Thief Trainee tree has Lockpick skill as far as I understand the badly written handbook.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Thief trainee, and the 1.22 handbook explicitly says characters retain class skills, if we were to go by it. The thief trainee having the lock pick was present in 1.20.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 08, 2014, 07:10:31 pm
Post by: Culise on April 08, 2014, 07:13:46 pm
We should explicitly state that Scavenger, Thief, and Spy all get the Lockpick skill. In case someone doesn't want to use trainees, for example.Or tweak the inherited skills rule to state that it retains skills from pre-promotes. In the case where a class has multiple possible pre-promotes (as in games that start with final promotes already in play), the player chooses their promotion path, and by extension inherited skills, at character generation.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 08, 2014, 07:18:03 pm
...I want someone to run a pre-promote Emblem. Not that I'd be able to play in it right now.
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 08, 2014, 08:46:12 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 08, 2014, 10:20:30 pm
Post by: darkpaladin109 on April 09, 2014, 07:18:41 am
...I want someone to run a pre-promote Emblem. Not that I'd be able to play in it right now.I think there's something like that already, but I can't remember the name of it right now. Whatever the case, I could do it, though I never really ran a FEF game before and haven't played many of them yet. I also can't sprite at all, so I'd be dependent on someone else to do it for me. Of course, I could always run the scenario that I kinda though of for a while, something like the Tower of Valni in FE8, I I guess you could say. In other words, a dungeon crawling FEF. If I'd ever get the time to start it, I might.
Hey guys! To balance the master spy tier traps, just do it like summoner phantoms; they get two specified ones which have slightly different effects(say, a status effect one and a stat reduce one) at levels 1, 5, 10, 15, and 20.Could work, but like Blade Master said, then the lower level traps propably wouldn't be relevant at higher levels, so I can't say I entirely agree on the idea.
Post by: Solymr on April 09, 2014, 07:28:36 am
Examples: if you have a fire mage on your team Oil slick would be a priority. If you have a tanky character you can use Glue to force chokepoints and snipesnipesnipe. If you have high damage but low hitting guys you can use Tetanus for paralyzing, Flash powder, etc.
And so on...
About the people who voted no, there's still one who didn't say why he doesn't like traps.
The decoys can be fixed but nothing to do about Haspen's laziness :V
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 09, 2014, 08:36:56 am
Post by: Solymr on April 09, 2014, 08:38:05 am
Post by: Solymr on April 09, 2014, 03:08:13 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 09, 2014, 03:26:30 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 09, 2014, 03:48:52 pm
Post by: Shoruke on April 09, 2014, 09:23:24 pm
"Where's the Haspen Is Lazy option"?
:P
(still a BAWS for running plural FEF games)
Post by: Solymr on April 10, 2014, 01:15:27 am
... And it's got a vote. Lol
I love how people are being so honest about themselves :P
Post by: Solymr on April 10, 2014, 01:03:18 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 10, 2014, 06:22:39 pm
Quote
Ancient Gamble
Active Effect
During combat they initiate, a character with this skill
can choose to roll a die. If they roll (Strength x 3) or
under, they gain a bonus to their damage after the
enemy's Resistance equal to the character's Constitution.
I don't particularly like this as is. First of all, Shamans can use it anytime they attack, so any intelligent player is going to use it every time. That just results in more rolling, which no one appreciates, and makes Shaman damage output sort of erratic. Plus, there's no downside to failing the roll, so it isn't much of a gamble at all.
I suggest the following:
Quote
Ancient Gamble
Activated Effect
Once per map, a character with this skill may transfer any amount of their Con into their Magic stat. On their next turn, 1 point will return to their Con, and 1 will be lost from their Magic. On the subsequent turn, 2, then 3, etc.
This, on the other hand, is a gamble, since reducing your Con has a good chance of reducing your AS and Evade, with the caveat that you're increasing your damage output. And since Shaman's tend to be slower than most casters, they aren't usually going to be doubling anyhow...
I considered a transfer of 1 each turn, but that could be a long, long recovery time, especially if a Summoner decides to drop all their Con for heavy Damage.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 10, 2014, 07:37:14 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on April 10, 2014, 07:41:17 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 10, 2014, 07:58:12 pm
Post by: Shoruke on April 10, 2014, 09:41:42 pm
And, no rolling!
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 10, 2014, 09:43:04 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 10, 2014, 09:54:58 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 10, 2014, 10:02:58 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on April 10, 2014, 10:05:56 pm
It does bring into question though, with called magic, do you look at the weight of the magic you're using and use that as your weapon's weight, or do you use your current weapon? I could see this being used with Druid to give ailments a major boost.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 10, 2014, 10:13:34 pm
And this could make a Summoner with a body ring terrifying.
And the reason I suggested the accelerated transfer was because tanked AS is a pretty bitter pill to swallow.
Post by: Xanmyral on April 10, 2014, 10:22:35 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 10, 2014, 10:24:28 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on April 10, 2014, 10:26:32 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 10, 2014, 10:31:06 pm
Maybe a bit atrong with ailment staves, but they'll be sacrificing the lion's share of their AS and evade to do so.
Post by: Xanmyral on April 10, 2014, 10:34:13 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 10, 2014, 10:55:55 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on April 10, 2014, 11:00:38 pm
I do agree with what you said earlier being a perfect class skill, something that would be useful at all levels instead of just late game or early game before becoming useless. Some classes have this pretty well, some not so much.
Post by: Solymr on April 11, 2014, 01:23:03 am
Who would like the stats to return to normal the next turn?
Post by: Solymr on April 11, 2014, 11:05:05 am
And I just imagined a Summoner with Body Ring and Luna.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 11, 2014, 11:09:29 am
Post by: Solymr on April 11, 2014, 11:15:29 am
Omfg 4-way tie. I'm starting to think about making the poll just with the same as before, con for mag and something else options and leave the details for another poll.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 11, 2014, 12:12:01 pm
Post by: birdy51 on April 11, 2014, 12:46:08 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 11, 2014, 02:33:03 pm
Now for something else: does anyone feel like the Mercenary's special should be changed?
Post by: Haspen on April 11, 2014, 02:34:40 pm
Now for something else: does anyone feel like the Mercenary's special should be changed?
Hisssss v:<
Post by: Solymr on April 11, 2014, 02:36:25 pm
Post by: Haspen on April 11, 2014, 02:37:20 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 11, 2014, 02:42:00 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 11, 2014, 03:17:51 pm
Post by: Haspen on April 11, 2014, 03:30:31 pm
I didn't remember you changed it, so the handbook I meant.
Handbook version counts allies and gives them Hit bonus around Mercenary, and Mercenary gets a (slight) evasion boost per ally he Inspires.
Haspen version gives a flat +10 Hit bonus around Mercenary.
Post by: Solymr on April 11, 2014, 03:35:11 pm
Do we keep its totem ways?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 11, 2014, 03:43:04 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 11, 2014, 03:45:24 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 11, 2014, 03:47:32 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 11, 2014, 03:48:36 pm
Maybe max 2 allies?
I was thinking more along the lines of giving the merc what he would get from 2 allies under the old rules as long as one ally is in range.
Post by: Solymr on April 11, 2014, 03:51:05 pm
Allies in range get +5 Hit and Evade. If an ally is in range the Merc gets +5 Evade.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 11, 2014, 03:54:08 pm
I'd suggest the merc just get a straight up +10 to evade as long as at least one ally is in range, and allies in range get +5 hit/evade.
Post by: Solymr on April 11, 2014, 03:55:28 pm
How about +10?
So yeah the same I was thinking :V
Post by: Shoruke on April 11, 2014, 04:17:34 pm
10 evade, even if its almost constantly in use, seems a little underpowered to me.
How about Merc gets +5 Hit/Eva per nearby ally (max +20/+20), allies get +5 Hit/Eva (max +10/+10)?
A squad of 5 mercs would be formidable, with +30 Hit/Eva, but not completely unstoppable.
A squad of 4 {something else} plus one merc would have one formidable merc and 4 doods with +5/+5, which is... something.
Going into a chokepoint with 5 mercs would quickly turn into a competition of who can out-tank the other :P
Post by: Solymr on April 11, 2014, 04:20:42 pm
And don't underestimate 10 evade. It's actually quite significant.
Post by: Xanmyral on April 11, 2014, 06:05:10 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 11, 2014, 06:58:57 pm
I like SerCon's specs for it. 5 hit/eva for nearby allies, and 10 evade for the merc.
The Mercenary promotion tree gives the option for getting buffed by allies (Hero) or giving buffs to them (Commander).
The current class skill for Mercenaries actually works quite well for it, there's just too much variance with it, and the GM has to math out the benefits every time the Merc gets into battle. A quick check to see if a merc is in range is much better.
Post by: Solymr on April 12, 2014, 07:28:05 am
Who wants the Fighter to have a similar special and a promotion to Hero?
Btw to the people voting 1 per turn: you might want to consider that Shamans have 6 CON. Might take too long to recover. The progressive option takes half the time.
Post by: Shoruke on April 13, 2014, 02:06:18 am
I don't recall seeing anything in the handbook about gender-restricting classes. I even did a ctrl+f for various words ("woman", "women", "girl", "gender", "sex", etc.) and came up nearly blank. So, I guess men can be troubadours and pegasus riders and women can be berserkers? :o
Also, I made up an image of the job tree for visualization.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Information visualization is a beautiful thing! It makes it really easy to pick up some trivia!
- Archer Trainees are the only trainee class that can promote (directly) into 3 different trainee trees (Spy for thief tree, Archer for Archer tree, or Nomad for rider tree). Priest and Rider trainees can promote into 3 different trees, but not directly.
- Troubadours are the only First Class that can promote directly into 3 different trees (Valkyrie are in rider, Mage Knights are in mage, and both are in priest).
- The Priest and Mage trainee trees are the only tree pair that overlap twice.
- The swordsman tree is the only fully acyclic class tree (i.e. all of the promoted classes in the swordsman tree have exactly one path from trainee to fully promoted).
- Performer trainees have only 3 full promotions available, the fewest of anyone. Conversely, Archers, Riders, Mages, and Swordsmen all have 6 full promotions available.
*Ahem* Getting back on topic... Fighters.
The Fighter's skill, and their promotions' skills, are all based around trickery and messing with people, backed up by the fact that they are a big guy with an axe. The warrior's skill is even contingent upon Fighters having conceal as a skill. Making fighters into the axe-mercenary sounds like too many changes to something that isn't really broken, IMO.
Post by: Solymr on April 13, 2014, 03:02:26 am
About fighters, you forgot one thing: they can promote into Heroes. And they get an enemy activated version of their passive.
Besides nobody likes terrain conditions and nobody uses conceal :V
And yes, any class can be of any gender. That's why male valkyrie is soon going to be a thing :3
And yes, women can be berserkers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwGARTfT-n0) :P
Post by: Solymr on April 13, 2014, 07:42:24 am
When they say a certain class (soldiers for example) you have to assume their promotions are included too.
Armoured and horseback is pretty obvious.
Mercenaries --> whole swordsman class.
Post by: Xanmyral on April 13, 2014, 09:29:35 am
Post by: Solymr on April 13, 2014, 10:39:54 am
I guess that's a matter for the people.
Is everyone done with the current poll? Cause there's a tie and I like the progressive one better than the one per turn.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 13, 2014, 11:00:57 am
Post by: Solymr on April 13, 2014, 11:03:48 am
Post by: Shoruke on April 13, 2014, 12:23:22 pm
Noice tree. Can I use it for the handbook?Totally made my day by asking me that. 'Course you can! :D
Heck, I can even pretty it up a little bit more if you want, draw some imaginary lines to indicate the trainee/first/promoted tiers, space it out a little better...
About fighters, you forgot one thing: they can promote into Heroes.I know they can in (some of) the video games... and the v1.22 handbook... but I thought we were using the v1.20 handbook? That's what I based that job tree image on, anyway. In the v1.20 book Fighters can promote to Warrior or Forest Knight.
Post by: Solymr on April 13, 2014, 12:27:04 pm
And prettyfying would be nice thx :3
Post by: Xanmyral on April 13, 2014, 12:31:44 pm
If I did the fighter -> hero, I'd probably look over the spy traps made here or just shuffle the forest knight's trap onto the spy, with the change of it being able to be done anywhere, with being set on non-defense terrain only effecting that tile and being set on defensive terrain effecting adjacent tiles as well. The latter seems easier to me, frankly.
Post by: Solymr on April 13, 2014, 12:34:24 pm
And we have something in mind for forest knight traps :>
Post by: Xanmyral on April 13, 2014, 12:36:43 pm
If I recall, I don't remember you guys talking about forest knight traps much beyond them being stronger than the spies but being a one-shot.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 13, 2014, 12:40:59 pm
Post by: Shoruke on April 13, 2014, 12:44:06 pm
option 1: Leave things as they are in v1.20
option 2: Drop Forest Knights, let Fighters promote to Hero instead.
option 3: Let Fighters have 3 promotion options (and become the only class to be able to do so)
Then we can figure out Forest Knights once we've decided they're staying for sures.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 13, 2014, 12:45:30 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 13, 2014, 12:47:59 pm
Since there's no class with S rank in anima, the idea was to have another class promoted from mage that had S rank anima. So they would get 3 promotion choices.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 13, 2014, 12:51:27 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on April 13, 2014, 12:53:20 pm
Fencers were also in talks to receive a third promotion, specifically Swashbuckler.There was? I don't recall, but it does make sense.
Post by: Solymr on April 13, 2014, 12:53:42 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 13, 2014, 12:56:06 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 13, 2014, 12:57:09 pm
New special for the fighter.
Post by: birdy51 on April 13, 2014, 01:00:46 pm
Fighters are about brute force. They care not for traps or tricks; they are brutal, ugly, and more than prepared to pound someone's face in.
So what can we do about that?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 13, 2014, 01:07:43 pm
Maybe +5 hit for the fighter and -10 evade for enemies in range who aren't in combat with the fighter.
Post by: Solymr on April 13, 2014, 02:14:06 pm
-5 Hit and Evade for all enemies in range and if there are more than 2 enemies in range the Fighter gets +5 Hit or Evade?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 13, 2014, 02:17:39 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 13, 2014, 02:20:50 pm
1 or no enemies: no bonus.
2 or more enemies: BONUS.
Post by: Shoruke on April 13, 2014, 03:08:54 pm
Spoiler: here 'tis (click to show/hide)
- I rearranged the Swordsman and Fighter trees so that Hero and Warrior are right next to each other (in case I need to change it later)
- The three tiers form much nicer ellipses now
- I added a couple rings between the tiers (they're really obvious...)
- I thickened the lines leading to Mage Knight and Bishop a little
- The labels at the left and right sides of the image are no longer cropped
I'm considering removing the Mage -> Mage Knight edge and then just drawing it in manually, arcing around the outside of the ellipse, but... nah... that'd look weird too.
Post by: Solymr on April 14, 2014, 11:20:09 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 14, 2014, 11:21:15 am
Post by: darkpaladin109 on April 14, 2014, 11:21:35 am
The vote is pretty lopsided. I have no objections.Agreed.
Post by: Solymr on April 14, 2014, 11:32:07 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 14, 2014, 11:35:38 am
Post by: Haspen on April 14, 2014, 11:36:17 am
Only trainees have three First class options, so you're kinda getting into new territory there :P
Post by: Solymr on April 14, 2014, 11:38:30 am
Post by: Shoruke on April 14, 2014, 11:53:08 am
Technically it is the first first class to get 3 Promoted class options if we agree on Hero/FK/Warrior combo.Yeah, the way the poll is phrased....
Only trainees have three First class options, so you're kinda getting into new territory there :P
it's kinda like, if we gave Mages a Call Spell ability and said "they're not the first class to have this"
Technically true, but...
(I voted option 3 anyway :P moar is a good number of options)
Post by: Solymr on April 14, 2014, 04:53:00 pm
Can we start talking bout Fighter and Fencer special?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 14, 2014, 04:56:46 pm
Actually, it might be better to address all promotion changes at once.
Post by: Shoruke on April 14, 2014, 05:27:01 pm
Actually, it might be better to address all promotion changes at once.Agreed.
Then I only have to alter the class tree (and draw in the tier lines, and thicken the Dark Knight/Bishop lines, and upload the thing...) once. :P
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 14, 2014, 08:07:20 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 14, 2014, 08:29:19 pm
Dark Knight for Shamans could be cool though.
We could make War Clerics a cleric/priest promote.
Pegasus Knights could get Dark Flier (no galeforce ability though, that's broke as hell)
Wyverns could get Griffon Knight, but I have no idea what the main difference between that and its other promotes would be. No more vulnerability to wyrm-slayers and the like, rather than improved Dragon Scales or bonus anti-fly?
Performers don't really need new promotes, and they may need some nerf in all honesty.
Archers can get Nomad Trooper added. Nomads can get... Uh. Something else? Maybe bow-locked Mage Knight? Wait, actually that'd be pretty brutal, lets do that.
Myrms could get Assassin in addition to Samurai and Swordmaster.
Well, I'm spent for now, lets discuss this.
Post by: Shoruke on April 14, 2014, 08:53:20 pm
One option is to give every class 3 promotions. Might have to make up some classes, but hey
lets discuss this.
My contribution to the subject is: it could work, like, hypothetically, but oh em geesus this tree is gonna be a mess :P
That's not to say I can't do it, of course. I don't promise it'll be clean and well-organized, but I can do it.
I guess we make Tricksters for thiefy-types...
Do we want/need Pegasus Knights? Seems odd that Pegasus Riders promote to things that don't ride pegasi. You know, because all that training to ride a pegasus makes you better at not riding pegasi. We could have Falco Knights, Pegasus Knights, and Dark Fliers, and leave the Valkyries to the Troubadours.
My honest opinion, though, let's just work through the classes one at a time. SO.
HOW 'BOUT THEM FENCERS EH
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 14, 2014, 09:08:42 pm
HOW 'BOUT THEM FENCERS EH
I still want them to get challenge for Battlefield control fun time.
Also, they need the Swashbuckler promote so they have at least one that doesn't involve arcane majiks, which some people won't want to play, and would otherwise steer them away from the class.
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 14, 2014, 09:40:44 pm
I was thinking for Pegasus Riders, they could have Valkyrie, Falco Knight, and a Bow or Light magic using promo.
But I should just list all my ideas. Last one of the three is the new one.
Archer-->Sniper, Battle Mage, Nomad Ranger/Artilley
Nomad-->Nomad Healer, Nomad Ranger, Nomad Lancer/Fortune Teller/Nomad Shaman
Spy-->Master Spy, Assassin, Wanderer(?)
Fighter-->Warrior, Forest Knight, Fighter
Pirate-->Swashbuckler, Berserker, Dread Pirate
Bandit-->Mountain Bandit, Berserker, Reaver
Mage-->Sage, Mage Knight, Loremaster/Mystic (Theurge?)
Shaman-->Druid, Summoner, Dark Knight
Monk-->Bishop, Holy Guard, Fanatic(Warrior Monk?)/Templar
Bard-->Loremaster, Enchanter, Wanderer/Swordsinger
Dancer-->Loremaster, Dancing Blade, Courtesan/Master Spy
Minstrel? -->???(I feel like there should be a third to the Performer set; possibly just 1 person gets extra but with a huge range, and specializing in Instruments rather than Lyrics? Would necessitate changes to Bard and Loremaster, of course...though Troubadour refers to a minstrel type person, we could just adjust them slightly and do that.)
Priest-->Saint, Bishop, War Cleric(?)
Troubadour-->Valkyrie, Mage Knight, Nomad Healer(?)/Slayer(???)
Cavalier-->Paladin, Duke Knight, Great Knight/Dark Knight
Pegasus Rider-->Falco Knight, Valkyrie, Griffon Knight(?)/Something to do with light or clouds and shit
Soldier-->Sentinel, General, Skirmisher/Combat Medic(NOT Nomad Healer)
Knight-->Great Knight, General, Commander(?)/Guardian(or synonym thereof, preferably stronger)/Templar(if we did this, Knight's Armoured should only affect Physical weapons, and Templars would have an ability that did a similar thing for magical weapons, plus some mage-hate)
Wyvern Rider-->Wyvern Knight, Wyvern Hunter, Dragon Rider(?)
Mercenary-->Commander, Hero, Nomad Ranger/Duelist(?)
Myrmidon-->Swordmaster, Samurai, Dancing Blade(COME ON LEAF ON THE WIND FITS SO PERFECTLY MAN)/Assassin/Duelist(?)
Fencer-->Shadow Sword, Crusader, Spellsword/Swashbuckler/Duelist(?)
Thief-->Bounty Hunter, Rogue, Trickster(?)/Something to do with being a con artist/Something to do with being acrobatic
Scavenger-->Bounty Hunter, Wanderer, Trickster/Shadow Sword/Adventurer
Oh. I'm done. Cool.
Post by: Xanmyral on April 14, 2014, 09:45:08 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 14, 2014, 09:47:16 pm
Quote
Dread Pirate
What is this magical thing I see before me.
Edit: Other observations/argumentations
Archer-Artillery: Sniper already has plenty of range.
Nomad-mess of stuff: What? What about Bow-locked Mage Knight? I think that'd work pretty well.
Bandit-Reaver: I don't know what this is.
Mage-Archsage: Fixed that name for ya :v
Monk: Maybe some Monster Hunter class?
All of those performer promotes are going to need to be expounded upon. Still don't think we need more of those.
Priest-War Cleric: They get Axes and the Renewal Class skill for free.
Troubadour-> Nomad Healer: I like this, lets do this.
Pegasus Rider: Still like Dark Rider for Pegasus Knights. Not necessarily Dark Magic for them, but probably Anima.
Soldier: Maybe an altered Commander?
Knight-Templar: Ew, no, we already determined how Armored works.
Wyvern Rider: How would a Dragon Rider be different from the other Wyvern promotes?
Myrm: Dancing Blade could work.
Fencer: Swashbuckler, come on!
Trickster: Swords and Staves, and they reduce all normally navigable tiles to a move cost of 1 no matter what!
Scavenger: Shadow Sword! The weapon skills already fit!
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 14, 2014, 09:49:06 pm
Want me to explain what I had in mind for it, or do you just want to bask in the glory that is the Dread Pirate (Roberts)?QuoteDread Pirate
What is this magical thing I see before me.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 14, 2014, 10:05:27 pm
Post by: birdy51 on April 14, 2014, 10:14:25 pm
Cavalier can promote to Paladin, Duke Knight, and Great Knight.
This this this this this. Oh yes yes yes.
My original vision for Miguel was that he would be a Great Knight. However, I couldn't reconcile the fact that any man of his age would be wearing massive plate armor from the get go. So I made him a Cavalier and cut my losses. However, I would love to see this be an option for Cavaliers. I like the idea of tanks who are able to move from place to place quickly, through rain, snow, or hell fire.
Post by: Shoruke on April 15, 2014, 02:10:48 am
Spoiler: irrelevant ranting about things that are not pegasi (click to show/hide)
So..... are we really doing the "3 full promotion options for everyone" thing? I still say that should be decided on a case-by-case basis. Some of the examples given so far, you could make a good case for. Some of the other examples are... a stretch. At best. I call for a vote!
Post by: Solymr on April 15, 2014, 04:41:15 am
I think you went a little too ham on this :V here's the ones I like though:
Cavalier to Great Knight
Troubadour to Nomad Healer
Myrmidon to Dancing Blade
Fencer to Swashbuckler
And maybe Archer to Ranger
And the only new class we really need is the S rank anima guy we call Archmage or Archsage or whatever and they would get a modified version of Omniweapon.
Post by: Haspen on April 15, 2014, 05:21:49 am
If I could easily upload screenshots from my 3DS to Bay12, I would take one of Maribelle intending to use a Second Seal to turn into a Valkyrie. On a horse. With no wings. (the lack of wings is crucial to the argument, you see)
In short, NO, YOU GUYS, THEY REALLY DON'T.
That's why I made Pegasi Riders turn into Pegasi Valkyries and Troubadours turn into Horse Valkyries in FEF2 onwards :P
Post by: scapheap on April 15, 2014, 05:32:28 am
That's why I made Pegasi Riders turn into Pegasi Valkyries and Troubadours turn into Horse Valkyries in FEF2 onwards :PTenebra shakes his hoof at you.
Post by: Haspen on April 15, 2014, 05:39:54 am
That's why I made Pegasi Riders turn into Pegasi Valkyries and Troubadours turn into Horse Valkyries in FEF2 onwards :PTenebra shakes his hoof at you.
Silence ponyperson. In FEF, I'm the law :P Right after handbook that's it.
Post by: Solymr on April 15, 2014, 06:31:37 am
That's why I made Pegasi Riders turn into Pegasi Valkyries and Troubadours turn into Horse Valkyries in FEF2 onwards :PThis should make it in the new rules too. I forgot about it :V
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 15, 2014, 07:21:15 am
Post by: Xanmyral on April 15, 2014, 07:22:38 am
Post by: Haspen on April 15, 2014, 07:43:21 am
Why don't we like flying for troubadours? What'd they ever do to you?
I can make it the way of normal games so Valkyries' don't fly at all no matter their first class, if you want :3
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 15, 2014, 07:45:50 am
Just Saiyan.
Post by: Haspen on April 15, 2014, 07:49:00 am
Seems to me like they should fly no matter their starting class. Like, I dunno, Valkyries?
Just Saiyan.
That's in conflict with Fire Emblem games v:!
Post by: Solymr on April 15, 2014, 07:54:58 am
Similar stuff for rider trainees with swords promoting to bow only nomads or mage trainees etc etc
Post by: Xanmyral on April 15, 2014, 07:56:23 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 15, 2014, 07:58:17 am
For the sake of consistencies and not just "hoars turns into flying hoars because magic".
Similar stuff for rider trainees with swords promoting to bow only nomads or mage trainees etc etc
Nomads should not promote from rider trainees. Let's have wyvern riders fill that spot.
Post by: Solymr on April 15, 2014, 08:00:47 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 15, 2014, 08:02:23 am
That actually makes a lot more sense. Rider trainee: choose your ride between regular hoars, flying hoars and monster hoars.
Plus it doesn't necessitate that Nomads suddenly forget how a lance works.
Post by: Haspen on April 15, 2014, 08:22:49 am
That actually makes a lot more sense. Rider trainee: choose your ride between regular hoars, flying hoars and monster hoars.
Did that in FEF2 :P
What's about that monster hoars thing?
Nomads should not promote from rider trainees. Let's have wyvern riders fill that spot.
Yeah, I always envisioned Nomas/Bow Knights promoting solely from Archers.
Post by: Solymr on April 15, 2014, 08:26:57 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 15, 2014, 08:27:48 am
Post by: Haspen on April 15, 2014, 08:28:18 am
Wyverns bro :V they have thunder weakness so monsters they are.
Oh. But wyvern riders stem from Soldier trainee, not riders :P
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 15, 2014, 08:31:11 am
Like Nomads are now.
Post by: Solymr on April 15, 2014, 08:32:31 am
Nomads should not promote from rider trainees. Let's have wyvern riders fill that spot.
Welp we'll have to fix some things cause wyvern riders coming from rider trainees wouldn't have anti-cavalry and other numberwankery.
Post by: Haspen on April 15, 2014, 08:35:26 am
Nomads should not promote from rider trainees. Let's have wyvern riders fill that spot.
Welp we'll have to fix some things cause wyvern riders coming from rider trainees wouldn't have anti-cavalry and other numberwankery.
...but Wyvern Riders don't have anti-cavalry, they never had? That's a Soldier skill, not Soldier Trainee.
Post by: Solymr on April 15, 2014, 08:36:18 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 15, 2014, 08:37:44 am
Post by: Haspen on April 15, 2014, 08:38:44 am
I thought you meant something completely different and I was about to get upset about the whole riding skills thing again.
I detect a desperate need for a shoosh-pap and brohug :P
/me provides both :3
Post by: scapheap on April 15, 2014, 10:03:33 am
For the sake of consistencies and not just "hoars turns into flying hoars because magic".I made Tenebra eat the promotion item so I could use 'magic' for why he flying now.
Post by: Solymr on April 15, 2014, 10:15:52 am
Well there's a solution now that it's pretty clear what do people want for Fighters. Look at the poll errbody.
Post by: birdy51 on April 15, 2014, 10:20:33 am
Post by: darkpaladin109 on April 15, 2014, 11:40:37 am
Post by: Solymr on April 15, 2014, 11:45:53 am
So votes are actually 4Y 3N?
Post by: Shoruke on April 15, 2014, 01:44:20 pm
So votes are actually 4Y 3N?Well, they were when you posted that :P
Do you think we should give the player the option to be a pega-valkyrie or a horse-valkyrie upon promotion? About the only reason to pick horse is to avoid weakness to arrows and wind, but...
Post by: Solymr on April 15, 2014, 01:48:50 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on April 15, 2014, 02:40:00 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 15, 2014, 03:34:54 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on April 15, 2014, 03:42:19 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 15, 2014, 04:41:37 pm
Post by: birdy51 on April 15, 2014, 06:58:01 pm
It seems rather odd to have someone going from a horse based character to a Pegasai suddenly.
Post by: Furtuka on April 15, 2014, 07:03:50 pm
Post by: birdy51 on April 15, 2014, 07:12:35 pm
But I have no 3DS. Yet.
I'm not going to make a huge fuss about it though, as it does make sense in the idea that they are both flying healers.
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 15, 2014, 08:18:33 pm
Anyway.
Explications time.
Artillery: Meant to be a Ballista user, basically a Ballistician except that's the name of the Archer skill. Gain ability to carry around a single ballista with them, it takes up multiple inventory slots.
As for Nomad _____, that's because Bow-locked Mage Knight is just a worse version of the Mage Knight, since it's locked. Why make it so promoting to Mage Knight from Nomad is worse in that manner than promoting to it from a different class? I'd rather give them their own thing.
Dread Pirate is almost a pirate version of the Mountain Bandit class, but not as crappy(we need to fix MBs, btw). Wields axes and another weapon(I don't know, dark magic? Bows? Swords?), class skill similar to Daunt, and maybe something gesturing towards the great Roberts or taking over ships and whatnot.
Reaver: Wanton Destruction is the name of the game. Axes, mebbe Dark Magic, mebbe Lances, can sacrifice health to get stronger. Or something along those lines. Maybe Defense->Strength.
Mystic: Nah, I was thinking Sage would be the S-rank Anima, and Mystic would be B rank in all three. Besides...really, do we want to have Archsage and Sage as separate promotions for the same class? Come on, now.
Dark Knight is kinda obvious, I think; the question is whether it gets horseback or not. Abilities related to Mutually Assured Destruction.
Fanatic is meant to be a "I WILL KILL HERETIC CRUSH RAAAH" thing.
Templar could easily fit a monster hunter role rather than anti-mage.
Swordsinger is kind of a meh thing, but I think it would basically be a Bard who benefits from one of his musical pieces as if it were being used on him, continuously(just one, mind you), while also being able to use swords(or maybe just Physical Training, I dunno).
Courtesan is kinda a seductress. I dunno. I wasn't really sure what to go for, and I think I just ended up(accidentally, mind you) giving Enchanter and Dancing Blade to their opposites. It's not nice to leave performers out of the three class promo, especially since they aren't doing anything but giving everyone else extra turns; useful, yes, but that's why we should give them a reason not to just give extra turns, and instead be able to take an active role in the battle.
I don't even know what War Clerics are cuz' I've never played Awakening lalalalah~
I don't know what that is and I feel like it's gonna end up with a lot of "Dark [previous class name here]" stuff...then again don't know what griffon knights are either, so.
Yeah, different form of Commander was an idea, I wasn't really sure...Skirmishers are non horseback riders(w/ 7 move) that effectively have Canter. Use bows+spears, of course.
It was just an idea for Templar, was mostly trying to think of a class name for something that had spears and staves, maybe light magic too(especially if Monks promo to it, though it could be a 'spears+staves if Knight, light+staves if Monk; possibly adding swords to both), meant to be a 'I will guard you and heal you and be healer-phys-tank'
Duelist was meant to be really good at beating enemies one on one(as in, he's not near too many enemies, nor too many allies), and/or weapon triangle shenanigans, particularly against other swords.
Spellsword was just an idea to complete the trinity of Sword+Magic that Fencer had goin' on.
Trickster: SO not what I had in mind. We don't need a buffed Pseudo-Wanderer. Swords and Staves would be cool though. Not too sure of the ability though...maybe bonuses to enemies for each debuff they're suffering, or distraction creating/advantage-of-taking things?
Scavenger->Shadow Sword: See, the problem here, is that Scavengers don't have Sneaking, though. So they can't use Sneak Attack. And if they retro-get sneaking, no one will want to go Fencer->Shadow Sword, because Scavengers get an extra skill over them in the long run. And if they don't get to use Sneak Attack, no one will want to go Scavenger->Shadow Sword. Besides which, we should have a little more variety than 'Sword+Dark' and 'EVERYTHING'.
Not sure what Adventurer would have. I kinda wanted something referencing scrounging/scavenging and making something out of the bits and pieces you pick up, but Adventurer might be a support-ish guy similar to Merc-tree.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 15, 2014, 08:35:23 pm
Maybe we should try to use more classes that are already present and cross-promote, rather than try to come up with one new promote for each first class. Too much work, especially when it comes time to balance it all. All classes should have one promote all to themselves though.
Also, not much can be done about mage trainee weirdness beyond making 3 different mage trainees. Which is a bad idea. Priest to monk trainee is also weird, but apart from barring that promotion, not much to do again.
Post by: Shoruke on April 16, 2014, 01:07:39 am
Also, not much can be done about mage trainee weirdness beyond making 3 different mage trainees.Make Mage trainees get rank E in magic category of their choice (upon character creation).
Still opens up to potential weirdness (someone could choose to specialize in light magic as a trainee and then become a shaman), but the intent would be that you start using the magic category you'll promote into. You'd be encouraged to do so by the GM, the fluff, and the game mechanics, because then you get to keep using your tomes when you promote instead of having to buy new ones.
Post by: Solymr on April 16, 2014, 04:09:58 am
What a cluster-fuck that all is.
So yeah, shoruke got it spot on. Make mage trainees choose their subcategory and maybe remove the three choices that first class mages have.
And maybe remove the priest trainee -> monk path :V
Edit: and the thing about Rider trainees choosing their ride beforehand is good too.
Post by: Solymr on April 16, 2014, 11:40:24 am
Post by: Shoruke on April 16, 2014, 02:05:19 pm
1) Allow choice upon promotion
2) Allow choice upon beginning of each map
3) Pegasi only
4) Horses only
I CALL FOR A VOTE~
*audience groans*
Post by: Solymr on April 16, 2014, 02:22:40 pm
Allow choice upon beginning of each mapLol
Gonna change the poll now.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 16, 2014, 02:24:50 pm
Post by: Shoruke on April 16, 2014, 02:32:45 pm
I doubt anyone would pick that option for any reason other than to troll us...Allow choice upon beginning of each mapLol
*inb4 a bunch of Reddit users sign up to B12 and vote for weird options*
Post by: Shoruke on April 17, 2014, 01:14:56 am
Are you able to use the +5 Health Recovered effect with any of the conditions?
Skill 1: If over 1/2 HP, recover 5 health.
Skill 2: If under 1/2 HP, recover 5 health.
This is legal yes/no?
Post by: Xanmyral on April 17, 2014, 01:18:06 am
As a blanket statement, all personal skills are up to the GM.
Post by: Propman on April 17, 2014, 01:43:02 am
Post by: Solymr on April 17, 2014, 04:06:27 am
Also, the people has spoken. Haspen wins again :V
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 17, 2014, 05:56:16 am
What shall we work on next? If there's nothing else, I suggest a change to Wrath.
Specifically, I think its activation range should be widened to half health or below, rather than 30% or below, and the crit bonus dropped from 40 to 25. This way, characters with Wrath don't need to be a stiff breeze from death to activate their character skill, and the effect on the crit rate is not quite so severe in exchange.
Post by: scapheap on April 17, 2014, 05:57:53 am
Please excuse the double-post, but I have a question concerning Personal Skills.I view the +5 health skill as added to hp recovering moves so one would be 'use vern, are you over half health? Yes? 5 more hp is healed.
Are you able to use the +5 Health Recovered effect with any of the conditions?
Skill 1: If over 1/2 HP, recover 5 health.
Skill 2: If under 1/2 HP, recover 5 health.
This is legal yes/no?
It worded as '+(plus)5 hp recovered' not '5 hp recovered' point so it only add to active hp recovering(regen skills are passives hp recovering).
Post by: Solymr on April 17, 2014, 06:04:27 am
If we change Wrath shouldn't we change Resolve too?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 17, 2014, 06:54:36 am
But seeing as it increases your speed by half, and therefore boosts your evasion, I don't think it's so bad to be in that danger zone, at least as much as Wrath.
Post by: Solymr on April 17, 2014, 08:07:57 am
Suggested Fighter special:
- +10 hit and +5 evade when within 3 range of 2 or more enemies.
- -5 evade to enemies within 3 range of the Fighter and +5 hit and evade when in range of 2+ enemies.
Post by: birdy51 on April 17, 2014, 09:36:57 am
However, I think I have an idea. Fighters can be considered one of the few enemies that can really do damage to Knights. Generally, unless there is a mage or fighter-esque around, Knights just don't die. So why not solidify that fact with an ability?
- Heavy Blow - A called attack, the Fighter cuts his STR in half. However, for one attack sequence he is able to completely ignore the enemies defense.
This means that while it is utterly useless against mages or other soft targets, they will have the ability to smash through more defensive targets with relative ease if their natural STR is less than the targets DEF.
Post by: Solymr on April 17, 2014, 09:43:42 am
Mebbe for warriors though.
Also I'm not sure that's underpowered, but if it is we can give mo numbers.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 17, 2014, 09:50:54 am
Fighters seem to me to be heavy brawlers, wading into the thick of the enemy, so they should have bonuses relating to that. Maybe add 1 to AS as well as +10 hit and +5 evade when within 3 range of 2 or more enemies. That AS wouldn't be factored into Evade though.
Post by: Solymr on April 17, 2014, 09:54:43 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 17, 2014, 09:57:47 am
Post by: Solymr on April 17, 2014, 10:00:05 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 17, 2014, 11:04:59 am
Post by: Solymr on April 17, 2014, 11:49:37 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 17, 2014, 12:04:21 pm
Another question is, headcounts are OK for the Hero?
It isn't ideal, but its what the class works off of. We could give it a flat rate like we did for Mercs, but it really feels like it should scale.
Post by: Solymr on April 17, 2014, 01:00:46 pm
So Merc Hero gives +10 Hit and Evade to nearby allies and he gets:
+10 Evade near any ally
1 DEF and AS, +5 Hit and +15 Evade near 2 allies
1 DEF and AS, +7 Hit and +17 Evade near 3 allies
2 DEF and AS, +10 Hit and +20 Evade near 4 allies
2 DEF and AS, +12 Hit and +22 Evade near 5 allies
3 DEF and AS, +15 Hit and +25 Evade near 6 allies
Fighter Hero gives -whatever to nearby enemies and he gets (fighter's passive would be +10 Hit and Evade for himself when near 2+ enemies):
1 DMG and AS, +15 Hit and Evade near 2 enemies
1 DMG and AS, +17 Hit and Evade near 3 enemies
2 DMG and AS, +20 Hit and Evade near 4 enemies
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 17, 2014, 01:05:02 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 17, 2014, 01:09:05 pm
Also notice that the base Merc gives a big bonus for allies while getting a smaller bonus themselves, and Fighters get a big bonus for themselves while giving a smaller debuff to enemies (and indirectly helping allies).
Post by: Solymr on April 17, 2014, 01:23:58 pm
I put -10 Evade for Fighter :V
Actually lemme change all that, I made it too good.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 17, 2014, 01:49:46 pm
EDIT: TYPO!
Post by: Solymr on April 17, 2014, 03:05:36 pm
Post by: darkpaladin109 on April 17, 2014, 03:07:35 pm
Allright, the polls are open.nope, they're not
Post by: Solymr on April 17, 2014, 03:08:58 pm
Anyways they should be now. Go vote :V
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 17, 2014, 04:08:24 pm
>:I
Post by: Solymr on April 17, 2014, 04:11:00 pm
>:I
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 17, 2014, 04:13:15 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 17, 2014, 04:19:03 pm
Post by: Haspen on April 17, 2014, 04:20:04 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 17, 2014, 04:22:49 pm
I voted 'no' because I don't see any need to fix these :P
You replaced Lend Me Your Strength with Charisma!
*flails*
Post by: Solymr on April 17, 2014, 04:23:48 pm
And y u no like fighter noo passive :( They don't need forests now.
Post by: Haspen on April 17, 2014, 04:25:49 pm
I voted 'no' because I don't see any need to fix these :P
You replaced Lend Me Your Strength with Charisma!
*flails*
Paladin gets Nullify which is a Character Skill too, and I don't see anyone flailing about that :P
Also flat +10/+10 to allies in radius is less headcounting than anything you can come up with!
Post by: Solymr on April 17, 2014, 04:26:49 pm
And it's more the irony that you said it doesn't need changing when you changed it yourself :-X
Post by: Haspen on April 17, 2014, 04:28:25 pm
It's flat +5/+5 and +10 back to the merc >_>
I'm not even speaking about Merc, I'm speaking about your silly Hero shenanigans with dualism of the skill.
Anyways, it's your handbook :P
Post by: Solymr on April 17, 2014, 04:30:10 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 17, 2014, 04:32:20 pm
Hero was written as a class that was bolstered by allies, and you changed it to a support totem. You're comparing apples and oranges.
Actually, maybe Rough and Tumble should just go to Warriors, since Fighters won't be getting Conceal anymore.
Post by: Haspen on April 17, 2014, 04:40:22 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 17, 2014, 04:43:06 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 17, 2014, 04:45:36 pm
Heroes being the support totems for their lowly comrades sounds better than heroes getting better from not being alone. Honestly they're heroes. They should be example to everyone in the group, not be weak pussies when facing dangers alone.
It isn't like they get penalties by being apart from their allies.
And that leaves both mercenary promotions as support type. They should have one where they can stand on their own merit, and get some bonus for themselves.
EDIT: We can't invalidate a vote just because it wasn't justified. If they don't want to say what they don't like, they don't have to.
Kinda frustrating though.
EDITEDIT: We should put the issue being discussed in the thread title!
Post by: Xanmyral on April 17, 2014, 05:07:10 pm
I voted 'no' because I don't see any need to fix these :P
I was the other no vote, voted during class on my phone. Funny enough, for the same reason.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 17, 2014, 05:27:05 pm
Rather than try to make a new class to fix the S rank Anima problem, we remove staves from Sages, and give them S rank Anima with B rank subcategories, as is standard for one-weapon Promotes. Mages retain a promotion with staves, because Mage Knights get those, which I hadn't noticed before, and Sages are still plenty flexible with Memory Magic (which we should really add to the list of changes we're making, it's pretty good), so depriving them of staves isn't too brutal.
This obviates the need, perceived or otherwise, to make 3 promotes for each and every class, so we wouldn't actually need Rough and Tumble for fighter->Heroes, since we won't have any. If we do have Fighter->Hero promotions, we still kind of need it because Defiance and Lend Me Your Strength together would be a bit of a mess. This still leaves Fencers out in the cold as far as promotions not relying on magic goes, though giving Swashbuckler to Fencers as well would also leave Pirates without a promote to call their own.
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 17, 2014, 07:13:34 pm
Because having 'only' an A-rank in swords and resistance to magic means you have to use it. >.>
I'm voting no, because I think it's silly to have a promoted class have such wildly different skills just based on what it promotes from.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 17, 2014, 07:20:04 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 17, 2014, 07:33:57 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on April 17, 2014, 07:37:38 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 17, 2014, 07:51:10 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on April 17, 2014, 07:52:27 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 17, 2014, 07:54:39 pm
I feel like maybe doing that sort of thing, where instead of everyone having to weigh in on everything all the time, we could put some people in charge of projects, they'd get back to the group, see what people thought, go back and make changes.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 17, 2014, 08:14:02 pm
Sounds good to me. Trying to figure three for everyone sounds like too much hassle for what gain?
Yeah, I got caught up in balance after adding things that I forgot the KISS standard.
Post by: Xanmyral on April 17, 2014, 09:29:05 pm
Change is addictive, trust me I know.
This quote is quite relevant there.
I'm of the opinion that if things aren't broke, why bother fixing them? No armored for knights was broke, call magic is broke, etc. Terrain dependent skills aren't broke, sure they aren't always useful but such is how it goes.
Anyway, I'll throw an idea out that I was planning on doing: in terrain and supports, all instances of bonus to DEF also applies to RES. Because magic is powerful enough, and its rather small.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 17, 2014, 10:12:27 pm
Anyway, I'll throw an idea out that I was planning on doing: in terrain and supports, all instances of bonus to DEF also applies to RES. Because magic is powerful enough, and its rather small.
I thought that was implied. Why would supports and terrain reduce physical damage but not magical after all? It's worth stating it though in the new book.
Post by: Shoruke on April 17, 2014, 10:42:25 pm
Berserker: I AM DOOD WITH AXE!!!
Warrior: I am dood with axe AND A BOW!
Forest Knight: I am dood with axe IN THE WOODS!
Swashbuckler: I am dood with axe ON THE OCEAN!
Mountain Fighter: I am dood with axe IN THE HILLS!
Making fighters able to promote into Heroes as well would add some versatility to the DOOD WITH AXE tree, but Pirates and Bandits are already similar enough that giving them an extra promotion option each would feel like trying too hard. Meanwhile, Fencers and their promotions exist for the sole purpose of giving the swordsman tree (i.e. the DOOD WITH SWORD tree) more promotions (likewise Spy for the thief tree).
"MOAR CLASSES :V :V :V" is not what we need; what we need is for the existing classes to have well-defined roles.
Hence the current discussion on Merc / Fighter / Hero / Warrior.
On that note: Fencers promote into Crusaders and Shadow Swords, both of which are "Magic Swordsman" classes. Should we give Fencers a different skill to reflect this? It seems odd (IMO) for the "I sneak around and stand on pillars" swordsmen to promote into "I have swords and magic" people.
Post by: Xanmyral on April 17, 2014, 11:08:19 pm
Anyway, I'll throw an idea out that I was planning on doing: in terrain and supports, all instances of bonus to DEF also applies to RES. Because magic is powerful enough, and its rather small.
I thought that was implied. Why would supports and terrain reduce physical damage but not magical after all? It's worth stating it though in the new book.
It wasn't, considering it was all quite specifically stated as DEF. We've been going by that for all the games we're in, as far as I remember.
@Shoruke: I think fencers are fine as is, both of their classes have skills that augment the pillar sneaking in useful ways.
Post by: Solymr on April 18, 2014, 03:25:50 am
Anyways if people don't want third promotions for anybody, we can do this:
Fighter can't promote to Hero
Warrior gets Rough and Tumble
Sages lose staves and get S/B rank anima
Fencers can't promote to Swashbucklers
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 18, 2014, 07:15:49 am
Anyways if people don't want third promotions for anybody, we can do this:
Fighter can't promote to Hero
Warrior gets Rough and Tumble
Sages lose staves and get S/B rank anima
Fencers can't promote to Swashbucklers
Pretty much whats going on, it looks like.
Still don't like the fencer special though. If we extend it to forests as well, I'd like it better.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 18, 2014, 08:39:54 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 18, 2014, 08:48:27 am
I like this as it makes sense. Trees and pillars are pretty similar. :P Give Forest Knight the same thing to make it useful indoors as well and I'd consider both classes pretty well fixed.
The current plan for Forest Knights is to give them a trap feature like the spy. They only get one trap though- The beartrap.
Beartrap: Single Use. When an enemy enters the tile, they take 15 damage, are immobilized for 5 turns, and immediately end their turn.
They'll probably get 5 uses per map, but none of it has been finalized yet, and we'll be coming back to it once we start on promoted classes (where we plan to address Heroes, Warriors, both Wyvern Promotes, Forest Knights, Mountain Warriors, Sages, and maybe some other stuff I can't really think of.)
Edit because derp.
Post by: Solymr on April 18, 2014, 10:06:44 am
Let's try this again.
Post by: Shoruke on April 18, 2014, 10:09:37 am
Post by: Solymr on April 18, 2014, 10:11:20 am
Post by: Haspen on April 18, 2014, 10:21:39 am
Post by: Solymr on April 19, 2014, 05:21:31 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 19, 2014, 09:05:18 am
Post by: Solymr on April 19, 2014, 09:18:18 am
But we kinda need this solved asap.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 19, 2014, 09:31:50 am
Of course, I already voted no.
Post by: Solymr on April 19, 2014, 09:38:19 am
But you're right in the loadsawork stuff, so I'm turning towards no.
Post by: Shoruke on April 19, 2014, 10:03:19 am
I just can't wrap my head around the fact that apparently if one class has three promotion choices every other class needs them too :-\This.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 19, 2014, 10:05:54 am
Performer trainees not withstanding, since I have no idea what we'd do for a third performer. I still think that Bards are overpowered and Dancers are already skirting (hah!) the line.
Post by: Shoruke on April 19, 2014, 12:23:39 pm
One class shouldn't have more promotion options than others.
Why not?
Some classes have much better weapon availability than others. That doesn't make Cavaliers unbalanced.
Some classes have better skill/stat synergy than others, that doesn't make Nomads broken (compare them against archers).
Some classes straight up ignore the close- vs. long-range problem. That doesn't make mages broken.
It's not like Fighters get to promote into all three of their promotions at once, you know. The balance of the game is hardly going to be affected at all. And it's downright hypocritical to say "nobody should get more promotions than anyone else" in the same post as "I don't know how to make performers equal to everyone else".
Fair =/= Equal.
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 19, 2014, 12:28:57 pm
I think Performer trainees should have just as much as the rest, though. Courtesans for Dancers(get spy-ish abilities), something mounted for Bards(yes, I know it gives stupendous amounts of mobility to a class where mobility is all it needs. It wouldn't have much else, though). People who play them are already sacrificing being a direct participant in the action in favor of helping the team, so it's not all that fair to be mean to them for playing something that already makes them part of the background.
Post by: Solymr on April 19, 2014, 12:41:30 pm
And there's also the thing about priest trainees not being able to promote into Monks, so they would have the same options as performer trainees (also minor stuff like changing the Nomad promotion for Riders with Wyvern Rider).
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 19, 2014, 01:55:55 pm
I think the simplest way to fix it would be to forbid stockpiling moves except for possibly a hypothetical third trainee promote, who could precharge two adjacent allies. Or just perform for them normally.
Post by: Solymr on April 19, 2014, 02:18:06 pm
And ffs why is the vote always tied I was gonna end it with a no.
Post by: Shoruke on April 19, 2014, 02:36:12 pm
A bard can double the combat potential of four allies a turn. One unit does that, and they can every turn.
The odds against this happening in a meaningful way are huge.
With that said, I agree, performers are strong enough.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 19, 2014, 03:56:51 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 19, 2014, 04:05:20 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 19, 2014, 05:53:03 pm
Post by: Shoruke on April 19, 2014, 05:57:55 pm
I'd like the tie resolved when I wake up, else I might just say fuck it and break it myself :VConsidering you're part of the community, I think you should vote regardless.
I also think we shouldn't make changes based on differences of 1 vote...
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 19, 2014, 09:10:41 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 19, 2014, 11:39:01 pm
Can we try to avoid giving performers more power? A bard can double the combat potential of four allies a turn. One unit does that, and they can every turn.
I think the simplest way to fix it would be to forbid stockpiling moves except for possibly a hypothetical third trainee promote, who could precharge two adjacent allies. Or just perform for them normally.
Alright. When they are doing literally anything that isn't rejuvenating allies, they aren't able to do that. So why not, say, make it so they have a reason not to? You talk like they're overpowered, and while they are powerful to the GM since they act as a force multiplier; 1. the GMs tend to be brutal, a trend established by Haspen, and so most groups need and/or benefit from a performer greatly, and 2. The people playing the performer aren't actually doing anything. They don't get to fight or be in the thick of the action. It's not all that exciting just going 'Okay, I'll move here and perform, I guess'. When do performers ever actually use their proficiencies instead of performing? They aren't strong on their own, which is the whole reason why all they do is perform for allies.
A Dancing Sword has to choose between granting two allies extra turns and getting to take one in a meaningful way themselves. An Enchanter who actually uses their class ability doesn't get to boost 'up to 4 allies!'. A Loremaster who's Calling Magic isn't rejuvenating allies. And you want to make it so performers continue to have no reason not to only focus on rejuvenating people, instead of actually participating in the game rather than being ghost-turns/players?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 19, 2014, 11:55:17 pm
Of course, most classes in this system are better than the in game counterparts. But not to the degree performers are. Performers are a game changer, and very nearly game breakers. I expect that to make itself more and more evident the farther we get into FEF2. Since this is such a hot issue, we can come back to it later, when more playtesting has been done.
Before we put the issue away though, I'd like to point out that disallowing pre-charges will put dancers on par with bards again, since it's easier to have two people spend their actions and be within 5 squares of each other than to get three or four all around the same square.
Post by: Solymr on April 20, 2014, 04:19:58 am
Also rolepgeek you're forgetting the variety of extra instruments/dances that performers have. Hell, look at Anja's clutch double paralyze :o
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 20, 2014, 05:51:41 am
Post by: Shoruke on April 20, 2014, 02:46:28 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 21, 2014, 08:13:44 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 21, 2014, 08:18:48 am
Still in favor of giving Fighters Defiance and giving Warriors Rough and Tumble.
Maybe I missed it earlier in the thread, but what do these do? I don't want to vote until I know. :X
Post by: Solymr on April 21, 2014, 08:29:22 am
Fighter hero gives -whatever to nearby enemies and he gets (fighter's passive would be +10 Hit and Evade for himself when near 2+ enemies):Instead of fighter hero it would be Warrior and the numbers need some tweaking.
1 DMG and AS, +15 Hit and Evade near 2 enemies
1 DMG and AS, +17 Hit and Evade near 3 enemies
2 DMG and AS, +20 Hit and Evade near 4 enemies
Also keep in mind that voting yes doesn't necessarily mean that they'll get this passive. It's just that they would get something other than (or in addition to) forest walk.
Post by: birdy51 on April 21, 2014, 03:46:18 pm
I've been considering trying my own version of Fire Emblem on the Forums, but the idea is still very much in the beginning stages. However, I have a concept drawn up in my head, as well as a few principle characters and plot fodder. Mainly, the biggest things what would separate it from other games going on would be in the introduction of Laguz. Ever since I started working on them, I've had a few ideas on how I would run them. It's just a matter of sitting down and fleshing them out now that I have taken notes of their stats.
They would play remarkably different than their human counterparts, and as such need specialized attention. When/if I ever create a final concept, I'll try to present them to you guys for review.
Post by: darkpaladin109 on April 21, 2014, 03:51:32 pm
Mrrmh. I'm still not sold yet, partially due to them getting evade. It doesn't quite play into anything, with considerations that Fighters are not a class a akin to Myrmidon where they are meant to be dodgy. However, a change of subject.I do agree with Birdy on the fact that it doesn't quite suit fighters, so if we will give them a new ability, I propose we change it to giving the fighter a minor boost to strength and defense instead of the hit and evade boost, and maybe giving them something like a wekaer version of armoured, but without the weakness that knights and classes that normally get it have?
Post by: birdy51 on April 21, 2014, 03:58:54 pm
I suppose the question I'm asking myself now is; how do we make them able to take a hit or two, but not nearly as well as a knight?
Post by: Solymr on April 21, 2014, 04:01:19 pm
I do like that new thing though, even if it's going to be a little tough to balance.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 21, 2014, 04:23:24 pm
EDIT: Returning to the idea of reduced damage to Fighters as a special, how about -2 damage from all attacks if the fighter lands at least one hit during the player phase?
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 21, 2014, 08:25:01 pm
Post by: birdy51 on April 21, 2014, 08:50:50 pm
How about this. 5 less damage to any attack made against the fighter when he has full health. After that, all hits, including doubles, deal full damage.
It's not overpoweringly strong, but it allows them to take a full hit without going down. Once they do get in the fight though, it's fair game, and they won't have that initial defensive bonus.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 21, 2014, 09:09:35 pm
Plus it clashes heavily with their pre-established roles in the games. They're front line fighters.
Maybe a sort of defense variation of Quick Burn from FEA? First turn, physical damage is reduced by 3, next turn 2, third turn 1, then from Phase 4 until the end of the battle it's gone.
I'm just spitballin' here, work with me people. I don't really want to give them more hit (axes are too powerful to be getting that kind of boost), and damage boosts would kind of be pissing into a river. We don't want them out-tanking knights either, so if we do something defensive, it shouldn't be better than them.
Post by: birdy51 on April 21, 2014, 09:14:44 pm
Post by: Shoruke on April 21, 2014, 10:30:27 pm
The Bandits and Pirates have that covered. The role of Fighters is when, working within the top tier of damage output, you're willing to sacrifice some of your raw damage for utility. Conceal does exactly that.
If you want a tanky axe-user, play a Bandit and stand on a hill.
Although... to reinforce the whole "roles of the different axe-users" thing, maybe we could give Bandits 1 more STR? Pirates have 9, Fighters and Bandits have 7... Maybe the roles would be clearer if Bandits had 8? Sure, it's one damage per shot, but still...
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 21, 2014, 10:41:03 pm
HP 24 STR 7 MAG 0 SKL 2 CON 11 AID 10
LUK 0 DEF 3 RES 0 SPD 3 MOV 5
Fighters:
HP 23 STR 7 MAG 0 SKL 3 CON 10 AID 9
LUK 2 DEF 3 RES 0 SPD 2 MOV 5
Pirates:
HP 22 STR 9 MAG 0 SKI 3 CON 9 AID 8
LUC 1 DEF 3 RES 0 SPD 3 MOV 5
If we reduce the lowest instance of a stat to zero, and reduce the stats of the other classes by the same amount, we see...
Bandits:
HP 2 STR 0 MAG 0 SKL 0 CON 2
LUK 0 DEF 0 RES 0 SPD 1
Fighters:
HP 1 STR 0 MAG 0 SKL 1 CON 1
LUK 2 DEF 0 RES 0 SPD 0
Pirates:
HP 0 STR 2 MAG 0 SKI 1 CON 0
LUC 1 DEF 0 RES 0 SPD 1
... Not much in terms of cohesive information. Except we learned that Fighters are the lucky class. And no one but me likes Luck.
Edit: In any case, if we give Bandits extra Strength, we'd have to take something away.
Post by: Shoruke on April 21, 2014, 11:10:54 pm
In any case, if we give Bandits extra Strength, we'd have to take something away.
Hit points. That's my vote.
Bandits get -1 (or maybe -2) HP and +1 STR, and then we call the First Class axe-users good.
(interesting to note that, while Pirates do the most damage, Bandits can use the biggest weapons more easily...)
Post by: Haspen on April 22, 2014, 03:32:47 am
Post by: Solymr on April 22, 2014, 04:03:39 am
Here they get the biggest offensive stats while bandits get the most HP and CON and fighters the most skill... and luck.
If we move one HP to STR for bandits I suggest we move one LCK to SKL for fighters.
Post by: Shoruke on April 22, 2014, 11:37:01 am
If we move one HP to STR for bandits I suggest we move one LCK to SKL for fighters.Hmm... that does make sense. I'd agree to that.
Post by: Squeegy on April 22, 2014, 11:46:38 am
More seriously, why is this game so incredibly popular that it spawned so many offshoots?
Post by: Haspen on April 22, 2014, 12:00:55 pm
Why doesn't this have its own forum yet?
More seriously, why is this game so incredibly popular that it spawned so many offshoots?
A) Masochists
B) Challenge
C) Tactical cooperative game
D) Roleplaying cooperative game
There's a lot of people who enjoy at least 2 of above points :P
Post by: Solymr on April 22, 2014, 12:09:16 pm
Post by: birdy51 on April 22, 2014, 12:10:12 pm
We had a discussion about the possibility of a subforum, but most were adverse to the idea.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 22, 2014, 12:15:45 pm
Post by: Shoruke on April 22, 2014, 12:19:24 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on April 22, 2014, 12:21:02 pm
We had a discussion about the possibility of a subforum, but most were adverse to the idea.
Last time it was brought up, all of the games were played by the same handful of people.
Post by: Solymr on April 22, 2014, 12:50:18 pm
Post by: Shoruke on April 22, 2014, 02:35:16 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 22, 2014, 02:42:51 pm
I was planning on moving to Warrior/Merc special just in case.
And I think I should give some more time. Until I wake up tomorrow.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 22, 2014, 03:17:45 pm
For some dumb reason.
Post by: Solymr on April 22, 2014, 03:35:50 pm
Post by: Furtuka on April 22, 2014, 04:26:23 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on April 22, 2014, 09:11:18 pm
eping think it's too late. Fighters seem to be keeping conceal.
For some dumb reason.
Nothing says you have to implement what's going on in this thread. If you feel fighters are better off with something else, go for it.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 22, 2014, 09:18:34 pm
So are we going to adjust the Bandit-Pirate-Fighter tree now?
Also, I'm writing up some fluff for the first classes that have none. Already did the Trainees, but there isn't a lot to say about them, obviously.
Post by: Xanmyral on April 22, 2014, 09:38:01 pm
We're making a new PDF once everything is covered, right?
Wha? You guys are? Dang, best of luck with that then, sounds like a big undertaking.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 22, 2014, 09:46:32 pm
Note: This is not the first time I've done something like this. This is not a good thing or a bad thing.
EDIT: Just noticed Troubadours have wonky weapon proficiencies, considering they have two sets. Shouldn't they not have C subcategories?
Post by: Solymr on April 23, 2014, 03:31:34 am
Also, I'm writing up some fluff for the first classes that have none. Already did the Trainees, but there isn't a lot to say about them, obviously.Magnificent.
Poll has been changed. If anyone wants to revisit the Fighter special issue then there better be a lot of anyones.
On unrelated news, some guy above me has a problem that apparently can only be solved by repeatedly hitting stuff with a hammer very loudly.
Post by: birdy51 on April 23, 2014, 08:08:28 am
Post by: Solymr on April 23, 2014, 08:13:53 am
Anyways, FEF1's crit shenanigans made me think of Sniper/Gamble combo. Kinda OP
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 23, 2014, 08:18:53 am
And by the sound of it, he brought down a whole wall. It sounded like the whole building was falling over.
Anyways, FEF1's crit shenanigans made me think of Sniper/Gamble combo. Kinda OP
Well, first of all, vanilla 1.20 Sniper doesn't have class based hit rate. That was something Hasp changed for FEF2 and onwards when he decided 4+ range was bullshit, presumably. I don't know that Sure Shot applies after Gamble or before, either. I don't really think it should, either.
Post by: Solymr on April 23, 2014, 08:22:13 am
Well that's something we'll have to decide.
Also now that I look at it, the archer doesn't have a special that doesn't require the GM to cater for them, like Spies. Except FoW is worse than ballistas.
Does any GM here use ballistas?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 23, 2014, 08:24:05 am
I plan to include them at one point, but not soon.
Post by: birdy51 on April 23, 2014, 08:25:24 am
That's my thoughts on the matter.
Post by: Haspen on April 23, 2014, 08:27:19 am
Does any GM here use ballistas?
FEF2 will have plenty of ballistae. FEF1 had one map with these. One of NEFs gonna have them, too.
Post by: Solymr on April 23, 2014, 08:34:24 am
One question, how are ballista ranks/profs supposed to work?
Post by: Haspen on April 23, 2014, 08:36:12 am
Just like 'Side' in Sword family, Ballistae are simply a 4th subcategory.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 23, 2014, 08:43:35 am
I think that Snipers should keep their insane range... But at a cost. If they want to fight at obscene distances, they should need the accuracy to back it up. Attacking beyond their normal range should cost them their accuracy, which would make Gamble more of a Gamble when being used at that range, because you have to hit the enemy to crit them.
That's my thoughts on the matter.
I actually really like this. Change a Sniper's special to arced shot, and they can increase their range infinitely- at the cost of 15 hit per extra tile. Maybe give them that first extra tile for free though.
Post by: Haspen on April 23, 2014, 08:46:53 am
I actually really like this. Change a Sniper's special to arced shot, and they can increase their range infinitely- at the cost of 15 hit per extra tile. Maybe give them that first extra tile for free though.
Change a Sniper's special to arced shot, and they can increase their range infinitely
infinitely
wot m8, u cray
Post by: birdy51 on April 23, 2014, 08:49:06 am
Yeah, ballistae proficiency works like any other weapon proficiency.I think that Snipers should keep their insane range... But at a cost. If they want to fight at obscene distances, they should need the accuracy to back it up. Attacking beyond their normal range should cost them their accuracy, which would make Gamble more of a Gamble when being used at that range, because you have to hit the enemy to crit them.
That's my thoughts on the matter.
I actually really like this. Change a Sniper's special to arced shot, and they can increase their range infinitely- at the cost of 15 hit per extra tile. Maybe give them that first extra tile for free though.
Infinite range is a bit much. I don't think we want them to be able to attempt to pick off other enemy characters from that far of a distance. I simply suggest we take their current range, and if they go beyond what is expected for the weapon, a flat -30 hit. If they want to use that Killer Longbow at 4 Range, they'll have to pay the accuracy fee.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 23, 2014, 08:58:27 am
We still need to finish first classes. Once we finish the Axe tree restat, what's left for first classes?
Post by: Solymr on April 23, 2014, 09:04:53 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 23, 2014, 09:06:49 am
I thought we already did mercs?
Post by: Solymr on April 23, 2014, 09:12:57 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 23, 2014, 09:17:59 am
Post by: Solymr on April 23, 2014, 09:43:57 am
Pegasus Riders?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 23, 2014, 09:55:38 am
Post by: Solymr on April 23, 2014, 10:22:14 am
Post by: Shoruke on April 23, 2014, 10:56:27 am
We still need to finish first classes. Once we finish the Axe tree restat, what's left for first classes?
What about archers? There are exactly four reasons someone would pick archer over Nomad:
1) There are too many forest and desert tiles for a horse to be useful
2) There are lots and lots of ballistae
3) 2 HP, 2 LUC, 3 DEF
4) Not weak against Soldiers
Those would be nice stats to get for free on a melee character, but archers are not melee characters, and they have a trade-off compared to Nomads. Ballistae are "uncommon at best", and Nomads can just dismount in desert areas. As for the soldiers... the only reason a soldier should be able to hit an archer at all is with a javelin. So most of the advantages an archer has over a nomad... aren't really advantageous.
Conversely, why would someone pick Nomad over Archer?
1) Canto (with +2 MOV after attacking)
2) Huge boost to rescue capability (coupled with Canto and higher MOV)
3) 1 SKL, 1 SPD, 2 MOV
Not only are they slightly better attackers with those stats, they can maneuver much more easily with higher MOV, and then use Hit And Run to duck back behind their friends' defensive line, making their lesser defenses straight-up irrelevant (unless the defensive line gets overrun, in which case everyone is screwed regardless). Nomads are better archers than archers are, and can do more.
To fix this, I think we should give archers a second skill (I've mentioned before, please not knives) that makes them more suited towards hold-the-line tactics. Either something that gives an offensive buff when standing on defensive terrain, something that activates when next to an ally, or some kind of defensive skill (like spot-dodging).
Post by: darkpaladin109 on April 23, 2014, 11:00:06 am
-KUNG FU CUTMAN-Yeah, archers need something to make them more useful. I liked someone's previous suggestion of letting them attack someone if they approached their attack range during the enemy turn.
Post by: Solymr on April 23, 2014, 11:02:56 am
Post by: darkpaladin109 on April 23, 2014, 11:04:14 am
Since the votes are quite clear I can advance on this poll? Who wants me to change it?DO EEET
Post by: Shoruke on April 23, 2014, 11:08:15 am
DU EET NAOSince the votes are quite clear I can advance on this poll? Who wants me to change it?DO EEET
Post by: Solymr on April 23, 2014, 11:14:08 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 23, 2014, 08:32:11 pm
-KUNG FU CUTMAN-Yeah, archers need something to make them more useful. I liked someone's previous suggestion of letting them attack someone if they approached their attack range during the enemy turn.
Agreed.
I suggest the following be added to the Archer's Class Skills.
Called Shot: Activated Effect. The Archer can use their action to declare they are holding their fire. If an enemy unit enters a square within the archer's attack range, the Archer automatically attacks them. Only one attack can be initiated by Called Shot per phase.
Post by: Shoruke on April 23, 2014, 10:41:29 pm
Reaction shot (Activated skill): Use your action to activate this skill for this round. Anytime an enemy enters your attack range, make an attack against them immediately. You may not counterattack while this skill is in use, nor may you attack a given enemy more than once per round with this skill.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 23, 2014, 10:53:08 pm
Post by: Shoruke on April 24, 2014, 12:13:39 am
I don't care for it. Called Shot provides one attack in exchange for one attack. Reaction Shot costs an attack to make a pre-emptive strike against anything that enters your range for the entire enemy phase. Doesn't seem like an even trade-off to me.Well, for a start, the entire purpose of giving archers another skill is to give them some advantage, any advantage, that they can lord over the Nomads. Attacking once in exchange for their ability to attack once does not provide that.
Reaction shot gives them something that they can use to change the flow of battle; a Fighter has a chance against a Knight in one-on-one combat, but he might think twice about walking nose-first into an arrow as well. It also makes archers the answer to pegasus- and wyvern-mounted rush tactics, because they'd have to take super-effective damage before they can attack. OTOH, it also has its weaknesses; while it's in use, archers aren't able to use their (presumably) high speed to double-attack, and anyone who can tank their Vantage'd shot (or was inside their attack range at the start of the enemy phase) gets to walk all over them as usual.
Post by: Xanmyral on April 24, 2014, 01:23:21 am
Post by: Solymr on April 24, 2014, 08:17:38 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 24, 2014, 08:27:44 am
@Shoruke: Called Shot will allow the archer to initiate an attack against an opponent during the enemy phase, which will be unique amongst all classes, and would allow the archer to receive an enemy charge without idling their turn away, unlike most classes. Plus, unlike Reaction Shot, it wouldn't mess with the flow of the game too much, since the attack would be made just like normal, wouldn't be made whenever an enemy entered range, and wouldn't deny the Archer any counters he would normally get.
It will allow for corridors of doom against the players, as a way to look at it. Granted, I may be one of the few (or only) ones to allow enemies (all of them) to retain class skills. I still have to figure out the realism vs game balance I want to go with, but you'd probably only see that in castles.
Not sure I'd suggest that. It's a lot more to keep track of, and it tilts the balance of power even further into enemy hands.
Post by: Solymr on April 24, 2014, 10:38:17 am
I'm assuming the attack wouldn't get countered?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 24, 2014, 10:41:05 am
I like Called Shot better. Even if I wanted it to be called Overwatch :P
I'm assuming the attack wouldn't get countered?
If the enemy has a weapon with the appropriate range, yes they would.
Post by: Solymr on April 24, 2014, 10:44:05 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 24, 2014, 10:46:48 am
And would that waste the enemy's attack or they just get 2 attacks in a row?
No, the enemy would be able to make their attack at the end of their move as normal. If they survive, of course.
Post by: Solymr on April 24, 2014, 10:49:34 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 24, 2014, 10:50:37 am
Welp I guess that's the archer's choice to activate it or not.
Better than not getting a shot because the bad guys are too far away, I'd think.
Post by: darkpaladin109 on April 24, 2014, 10:51:16 am
Defintelly better than not attacking at all.Welp I guess that's the archer's choice to activate it or not.
Better than not getting a shot because the bad guys are too far away, I'd think.
Post by: Xanmyral on April 24, 2014, 11:33:42 am
It will allow for corridors of doom against the players, as a way to look at it. Granted, I may be one of the few (or only) ones to allow enemies (all of them) to retain class skills. I still have to figure out the realism vs game balance I want to go with, but you'd probably only see that in castles.
Not sure I'd suggest that. It's a lot more to keep track of, and it tilts the balance of power even further into enemy hands.
Some of the plans I have require it, and its not that hard to keep track of to keep track of really. Just a few piddly conditionals for the most of them.
As for your other statement, I prefer a more realistic bent on things. Enemies will carry different weapons, medicine, they'll know the weapon triangle, etc. They still won't have personal or character skills.
As for the archer skills, I prefer BMM's interpretation. I'd rather suggest one doesn't break the action economy, outside of very rare instances. I've never seen anyone manage it properly without a lot of thought into it and heavy restrictions or draw backs.
Post by: xelada on April 24, 2014, 11:16:26 pm
Post by: darkpaladin109 on April 25, 2014, 01:08:25 am
Maybe instead of/as well as buffing archers, we nerf cavalry/dismount, in it's current state it makes mounted units superior to non-mounted units, after all, if being mounted would be disadvantageous you can dismount, possibly making you slightly weaker than an infantry counterpart, but in some cases *coughcavaliers* you may still be better.We could do it like in FE3 and FE5 and make dismounted cavaliers limited to swords.
Post by: birdy51 on April 25, 2014, 07:29:35 am
Post by: darkpaladin109 on April 25, 2014, 07:31:03 am
...Expound. How are Dismounted Cavaliers better than their fellows?I assume it's because they get access to swords alongisde lances, even while dismounted.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 25, 2014, 07:48:05 am
Also, mounted units are vulnerable to the soldier tree and any weapon affected against horseback units.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on April 25, 2014, 12:18:54 pm
Also, mounted units are vulnerable to the soldier tree and any weapon affected against horseback units.
...
Unless they dismount, of course. In which case they have the same or highly similar stats, I believe.
Post by: Shoruke on April 25, 2014, 12:46:23 pm
Basically, a horse gives you +2 MOV and a huge bonus (like +12) to your ability to rescue people. For some reason it has no other impact on one's ability to wage war.Also, mounted units are vulnerable to the soldier tree and any weapon affected against horseback units....
Unless they dismount, of course. In which case they have the same or highly similar stats, I believe.
Post by: Solymr on April 25, 2014, 01:14:32 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 25, 2014, 01:23:21 pm
So what. They aren't that great that they need a nerf instead of the foot soldiers getting a little love.
This. Why is there suddenly talk of nerfing mounted units?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 25, 2014, 01:30:26 pm
Post by: xelada on April 25, 2014, 06:21:37 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 25, 2014, 06:33:08 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on April 25, 2014, 06:36:44 pm
As for cavalry, they get rid of their main weakness but also their main ability. They step off their horse/wyvern/pegasus, they're losing their class skill.
Post by: darkpaladin109 on April 25, 2014, 06:38:01 pm
And pretty much every rider considers it a major debuff when they're forcibly unhorsed.This makes me want to play a rider who always unmounts before battle. :P
Post by: Haspen on April 25, 2014, 06:38:55 pm
Dual weapon classes are actually suppose to have lower proficiencies, hence the Specific D, Branch D format. You just pick your proficiency. It gets waved in a few games when it shouldn't. But such is up to the GM in the end.
I up them to rank C in such situations because what's the point of pointing out proficiency if they're on same rank as their 'mother' categories anyways v:
Post by: Xanmyral on April 25, 2014, 06:39:31 pm
Post by: Haspen on April 25, 2014, 06:40:14 pm
Bask in my generosity of auto-upping them, then! V:
/me throws confetti.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 25, 2014, 06:41:44 pm
@DP: If you want to gimp yourself, no concern of mine. :P
@Hasp: I agree with that assessment. Seems kind of stupid to be like 'I'm decent with swords, including thrusting swords' instead of 'I'm decent with swords, but I'm good with thrusting swords' kind of thing. :|
Post by: Xanmyral on April 25, 2014, 06:45:32 pm
@SC: The stats for the classes actually fell under a point system if I recall, so the high-stat depends on what you're comparing things to.
As for the way its set up, the only way it makes sense (and with the wording in the prestige classes of 'your selected weapon') is if proficiencies were to be set. It was done to balance people having two weapon trees and others having one weapon tree.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 25, 2014, 06:49:11 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on April 25, 2014, 06:55:44 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 25, 2014, 06:56:42 pm
Quote
@SC: The stats for the classes actually fell under a point system if I recall, so the high-stat depends on what you're comparing things to.
Post by: Xanmyral on April 25, 2014, 07:08:08 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 25, 2014, 07:13:52 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 25, 2014, 09:04:35 pm
Cloud Walking
Reliable Attack
Dragon Scales
Momentum
Charge
Medicine Man
Plains Walk
Triangle Attack(!)
Scatter
So there's actually about three mounted class skills that are invalidated by dismounting: Nullify (since dismounting removes horseback, which is the only Effective damage Paladins can receive), Hit and Run (since foot units can't move after attacking), and Strong Vs. Airborne, which specifically states that it doesn't work while on foot.
I've bolded the skills in the list that I think should be specified as working only while mounted, but Scatter isn't one because that shit needs replacement. It's the single most broken skill in the game, surpassing even Call Magic in ability to give the GM the finger.
That said, I have some ideas for new skills for both Wyvern Promotions, but that discussion is for another time.
Post by: Shoruke on April 25, 2014, 09:45:40 pm
Cloud Walking is usable when on foot? ???
Yeah, agreed that those bolded skills should be mounted-only.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 25, 2014, 10:08:10 pm
Also, real quick, I have a proposal for changing Charge, since the subject is up anyhow.
Quote from: V. 1.20 Charge
Charge
Activated Effect
After a full exchange of blows, the character with this skill has a (Speed)% Chance of making the
battle go for another full exchange of blows. For example, if the character scored two hits on their
opponent to the enemy's one, and if this skill activates, the character goes for another two attacks, while
the enemy is allowed their one attack in between. This skill does not activate if the character has less
Health than their opponent.
This skill is unreliable, and its activation is capable of putting the user in further danger, and the HP restriction is tough for Valkyries, since pegs and troubs tend toward lower HP on average.
Quote from: Proposed Replacement Charge
Charge
Activated Effect
Once per turn, a Character with this skill can activate this effect at the beginning of a battle they initiate. Once a full exchange of blows has taken place, another full exchange of blows takes place. For example, if the character is allowed two hits on their opponent to the enemy's one, the character goes for another two attacks, while the enemy is allowed their one attack in between.
It allows the Falco-Knight to commit to a second attack against an enemy, increasing their potential damage. It's somewhat less powerful potentially than the old Charge, but it more than makes up for it in reliability, and further balanced by the Falco-Knight having to make the decision to make the second attack blind. And the HP restriction is gone.
Just some food for thought, we obviously shouldn't vote on it one way or the other right now.
Post by: Xanmyral on April 25, 2014, 10:31:06 pm
I'm mostly just thinking that its a step too far, really. It needs to be reeled back a bit.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 25, 2014, 11:00:35 pm
2. New Charge requires the Falcoknight to commit before the attack is made, so if they get wrecked by the first counter, they may get killed on the second.
Also, the objective wasn't necessarily to make Charge weaker, but more attractive to more players. And GMs, since this doesn't mean the GM has to make an extra roll to see if charge activates all the time.
Further, a fair majority of class skills that effect battle boost the character's capabilities in battle somehow, be it increased crit, damage, def, what have you. This does not do so directly, just lets them fight more. And the enemy gets to make their attack also, so it's not as if it's a free attack.
Post by: Xanmyral on April 25, 2014, 11:15:41 pm
The second point would only really come up on a possible crit, which can happen, but by and far people are going to know how much damage they'll most likely take during a fight. If you get fortune, then you just have to make sure you can survive two hits, which is easy.
While it isn't directly free attacks, it could easily be turned into free attacks with minimal planning. A javelin would do the trick, really, which is something they have easy access to. As a rule of thumb, a weak but manual skill is always more useful than a strong but random skill, I've always seen this validated in practice. You can plan around a manual skill, bring it out to its full strength, maybe beyond.
I do agree that the skill has excessive rolling, I think this is simply too strong. If it was limited to, say, once per enemy, then it wouldn't be as crazy powerful as it is now, but really that's still pretty dang strong.
Post by: Solymr on April 26, 2014, 01:16:54 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 26, 2014, 07:44:53 am
Maybe nerf the second attack slightly by halving attacks made during iy, minimum one?
Post by: Solymr on April 26, 2014, 07:58:07 am
Post by: Solymr on April 26, 2014, 02:42:15 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 26, 2014, 07:49:22 pm
Volley: Instead of taking an action, an Archer may use Volley. If an Archer uses volley, any enemies within their attack range who are attacked by friendly units are attacked once by the archer as well, regardless of the archer's Attack Speed. This can only affect a given enemy unit once per turn.
Or something similar, possibly Ranging Shot which could give allies bonuses against an enemy the archer attacks first.
Post by: Xanmyral on April 26, 2014, 08:01:14 pm
Archers were used in mass groups, after all, although this leaves it open to anyone who can use a ranged weapon, such as javelins or magic.
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 26, 2014, 10:35:33 pm
If you want to go army-army-army, I instead suggest a passive ability that grants those whom they've shot a bonus at attacking at range to. Something small, like ten. So an archer hits one guy, anyone else who attacks this guy at range gets a bonus ten to hit against them.
Archers were used in mass groups, after all, although this leaves it open to anyone who can use a ranged weapon, such as javelins or magic.
I'd been considering something like that, I'll be honest, I just wasn't sure about it since not everyone can wield a ranged weapon. It would fit well as a class skill though. Maybe a +1 to DAM and +15 to Hit? Or simply have it give a penalty to enemy stats, like -15 Evade and -1 Def?
Post by: Xanmyral on April 26, 2014, 10:42:35 pm
I think the +1 DAM and +15 HIT might be a bit overboard. And, if it needs be said, it obviously doesn't stack with itself.
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 26, 2014, 11:25:43 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 27, 2014, 06:54:54 am
I would just like that it didn't apply to ballistas.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 27, 2014, 07:23:32 am
IMO the Overwatch style of special is pretty unique and cool.
I would just like that it didn't apply to ballistas.
Ballistae have a limited number of shots. Archers should be able to choose to do that- But it probably isn't a great idea.
Post by: Solymr on April 27, 2014, 07:31:51 am
Also this skill would make sentries actual sentries and give more meaning to those archers confined in small corridors or rooms.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 27, 2014, 07:33:59 am
Post by: birdy51 on April 27, 2014, 09:04:18 am
Post by: darkpaladin109 on April 27, 2014, 09:12:59 am
...Actually. That gives me an idea. I've talked a bit about abilities that help only one character, but it might be nice to have characters that directly help out their allies rather than just gib their enemies.I think dancers and bards already play that role, at least primarily.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 27, 2014, 09:15:00 am
...Actually. That gives me an idea. I've talked a bit about abilities that help only one character, but it might be nice to have characters that directly help out their allies rather than just gib their enemies.
The entire Performer Tree, The priest tree, any magic promote with a staff, Commanders, and Nomad Healers all do that.
Post by: birdy51 on April 27, 2014, 09:29:56 am
For instance, take the Fighter and Forest Walk for instance. What if his ability also made it so that anyone who followed in his footsteps didn't have to take the MOV penalty? Essentially, what he's doing is clearing a path and allowing his allies to get the front line just as fast as he is.
Post by: Solymr on April 27, 2014, 10:09:11 am
There are more ally helping abilities: Sentinel gives 5 DEF to adjacent people, etc
Post by: Solymr on April 27, 2014, 01:48:15 pm
So far the only two ideas was Overwatch/Called Shot and the bonus hit when attacking the same guy at range.
Any more ideas?
Post by: birdy51 on April 27, 2014, 07:19:51 pm
Spoiler: On the Laguz Front (click to show/hide)
Post by: Solymr on April 28, 2014, 08:32:36 am
Changing poll.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 28, 2014, 08:37:51 am
Post by: Shoruke on April 28, 2014, 11:22:10 am
Why do people want a new special for Archers but not Fighters? :xFighters are, if not balanced, then reasonably close to balanced against their peers, the bandits and pirates.
Archers don't have a prayer of keeping up with Nomads.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 28, 2014, 11:25:41 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 28, 2014, 11:32:39 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 28, 2014, 11:34:07 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 28, 2014, 11:39:37 am
Like it originally was, you mean? :P
Well, originally they also got bonus hit and damage based on the terrain they were on. But I think extra range is powerful enough alone.
Post by: Solymr on April 28, 2014, 11:40:58 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 28, 2014, 11:44:49 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 28, 2014, 11:46:47 am
Post by: Solymr on April 28, 2014, 12:01:54 pm
One clarification for Assassins: do they lose weapon proficiency that doesn't get up to S rank?
Post by: freeformschooler on April 28, 2014, 12:09:21 pm
Like it originally was, you mean? :P
Well, originally they also got bonus hit and damage based on the terrain they were on. But I think extra range is powerful enough alone.
That was changed to just extra range in FEF1, right? I'll check.
That said, it's a very compelling skill.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 28, 2014, 12:09:55 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 28, 2014, 12:10:23 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 28, 2014, 12:15:32 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 28, 2014, 12:25:04 pm
Also mage trainees should be the ones that pick their starting crap instead of the mage picking Fire, Thunder or Wind :V
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 28, 2014, 12:34:13 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 28, 2014, 12:45:48 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 28, 2014, 09:11:11 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 28, 2014, 09:41:16 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 28, 2014, 09:43:10 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 28, 2014, 09:47:11 pm
I still like Called Shot better though.
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 28, 2014, 09:49:51 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 28, 2014, 09:54:21 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 29, 2014, 06:02:24 am
In a few hours I'll finish up the archers and try to do something to Fencers, so post ideas.
Pls I'll even play a shadow sword after this :P
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 29, 2014, 07:51:04 am
Post by: Solymr on April 29, 2014, 07:52:29 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 29, 2014, 08:03:31 am
Alright, so proposed Fencer specials were Challenge (force an enemy to fight you and get bonuses against them as long as you stay up and don't attempt to distance yourself), and something else I'm sure, but I forget what.
Had another idea too though.
Duelist: Passive Effect
When a unit with this skill enters a battle where both combatants wield the same sub-category, this unit gains weapon triangle advantage.
Yes, no?
Post by: Solymr on April 29, 2014, 08:11:03 am
Maybe when using the same weapon type. You know. Fencing is sword v sword.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 29, 2014, 08:20:27 am
And it would apply to light or dark magic as well depending on what promotion the fencer grabs. This way, the fencer doesn't automatically trump, what, four classes? Since that's how many are sword locked at first class, I think.
Post by: Solymr on April 29, 2014, 08:33:19 am
I'll do new poll after I get back.
Post by: Shoruke on April 29, 2014, 08:46:18 am
how many enemies get thrusting weapons?I like this idea. Fencing swords were invented for the explicit purpose of trumping other sword-users in a swordfight, after all.
Maybe when using the same weapon type. You know. Fencing is sword v sword.
On the other hand, this would mean that Fencers have advantage against 2/3rds of the weapon triangle at all times. Should we make it only apply when using their best weapon category, or maybe only when using thrusting swords?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 29, 2014, 08:50:32 am
Post by: Xanmyral on April 29, 2014, 08:58:30 am
People fenced with pretty much everything though, shield fencing was an odd thing as well. Granted, very large shields with giant spikes on the bottom of them, but yeah.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 29, 2014, 09:14:14 am
Post by: Solymr on April 29, 2014, 09:21:15 am
And what bonus would Challenge give? Triangle advantage?
Post by: Xanmyral on April 29, 2014, 09:21:39 am
(http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n607/Xanmyral/400px-De_Fechtbuch_Talhoffer_167.jpg)
And quite deadly. People loved to fight and kill another in varied ways, to be sure.
A product of the times, and better than them simply killing due to whatever slight they perceived, which they did for a while until the church threw holy trappings onto knighthood. ...Well, to be honest it didn't really stop them that much.
Anyway, take the above as a -1 to making the fencing skill only used when using the thrusting subcategory. That's not accurate, and thus I must oppose it. :v
Post by: Solymr on April 29, 2014, 09:23:19 am
Also yeah, class specials shouldn't be restricted to a subtype.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 29, 2014, 09:29:07 am
Post by: Solymr on April 29, 2014, 10:47:50 am
Poll is now changed.
btw do you want pillar dodging to stay? :V
Post by: Xanmyral on April 29, 2014, 11:04:21 am
Xan, what do you think of Fencers trumping whatever subcategories they're using at the time?
Sorry for the late reply, had to do a presentation.
Anyway, I think its fine in that its small enough that I consider it a nice addition instead of a replacement, which keeps with the fencer sneaking thing (which I like myself, not because its the fencers who have it but because I like the effects that it has (maybe if we really want to change the fencer's abilities, shunt those to the thief tree where it would fit. Maybe thieves or scavengers, although thieves strike me as more of the type to skulk and spies already have those fancy trap changes you gave them)).
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 29, 2014, 11:11:50 am
And if we give them a new special, no more pillar dodging. They can keep reduced move costs for pillars though.
Post by: Xanmyral on April 29, 2014, 11:18:14 am
Post by: Solymr on April 29, 2014, 11:29:16 am
Both options are yes.WHOOPS SLIPPED
And if we give them a new special, no more pillar dodging. They can keep reduced move costs for pillars though.
Post by: Shoruke on April 29, 2014, 03:38:57 pm
If it gets chosen to change their special, can we at least give the sneaking to someone else? I like the sneaking.We should add the Sneaking to Shadow Swords, so that they can still use their cool class feature.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 29, 2014, 03:46:28 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 29, 2014, 08:14:48 pm
As a note, sword users kinda have that anyway since there's Swordbreaker and shit.how many enemies get thrusting weapons?I like this idea. Fencing swords were invented for the explicit purpose of trumping other sword-users in a swordfight, after all.
Maybe when using the same weapon type. You know. Fencing is sword v sword.
On the other hand, this would mean that Fencers have advantage against 2/3rds of the weapon triangle at all times. Should we make it only apply when using their best weapon category, or maybe only when using thrusting swords?
Post by: Rolepgeek on April 29, 2014, 08:16:16 pm
EDIT: Gah doublepost damnit
Post by: Powder Miner on April 30, 2014, 08:42:13 am
Post by: Solymr on April 30, 2014, 10:31:03 am
I don't like Sneaking too much because 1) teleporting shenanigans 2) forces GM to adapt map to fencer.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 30, 2014, 01:09:12 pm
/slowpoke
I don't like Sneaking too much because 1) teleporting shenanigans 2) forces GM to adapt map to fencer.
Just only allow them to sneak between pillars they could path to normally.
Post by: Solymr on April 30, 2014, 01:17:19 pm
What was the bonus of Challenge again?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 30, 2014, 01:36:07 pm
10 hit and evade as well as the enemy draw thing?
Post by: Solymr on April 30, 2014, 01:40:38 pm
I'll put that and the triangle advantage version to see which one is better. Same for the dueling one.
Also for dueling: it's going to be bonus if chosen weapon vs same weapon type.
Post by: Solymr on April 30, 2014, 01:56:49 pm
Did I do it right this time? :V
Post by: Furtuka on April 30, 2014, 01:59:31 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 30, 2014, 02:05:49 pm
Promoted class can get a more OP version (like Marked for Death for Shadow Swords :O).
Also Challenge can save you from a particularly annoying guy with a lance (looking at someone right now) while Duelist can potentially be too good if you end up getting bonuses vs half of the enemies.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 30, 2014, 02:09:43 pm
At least one variant of duelist should allow trumping with all sword subcategories, not just the one that they specialize in.
Post by: Solymr on April 30, 2014, 02:12:23 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 30, 2014, 02:38:41 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 30, 2014, 02:44:49 pm
And yeah, the Duelist thing I put up there in the poll might be the kind of OP I tried to avoid :V
Post by: Shoruke on April 30, 2014, 03:00:11 pm
Obviously, this calls for SCIENCE~
We must encourage the GMs to fill the maps with Duelist!Fencers and see how badly the PCs get pwnt.
Post by: Solymr on April 30, 2014, 03:10:07 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 30, 2014, 03:59:44 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on April 30, 2014, 05:18:13 pm
Well, it seems to be doing well in the poll regardless.
Obviously, this calls for SCIENCE~
We must encourage the GMs to fill the maps with Duelist!Fencers and see how badly the PCs get pwnt.
Well, the lancers would shine. We don't really have many people who bring swords, most tend to gravitate towards spears and axes, I've noticed. At least, in the (predominantly) hand-to-hand melee side of things.
@BMM: They could bring a parrying knife and call it good. Of course, that's a rather restricted arsenal there. And powerless to trump magic, after the promote, which tend to be polarized to one or two subcategories, sadly.
@Stealth: I personally like the sneaking shenanigans.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 01, 2014, 09:07:08 am
Several First Classes (Spy, Social Knight, Scavenger, lots and lots of S really) get two weapon categories, and their weapon skills are all D rank, and their specialty upgrades on promotion. No problems there.
BUT. Troubadours get C rank in their specialty right away. That's unbalanced, especially since they get healing and fighting already. It allows them to be just as good healers as priests, but with a horse and a weapon of their choice. Also, it's not clear to me why Physical Training is a class skill when we could just give them the proficiency
Actually, just figured it out. Carry on.
Post by: Solymr on May 01, 2014, 09:16:06 am
So that's for Fencers. There's one little thing before we move on to the fun stuff of promoted classes.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 01, 2014, 09:18:17 am
Post by: Solymr on May 01, 2014, 10:05:29 am
Post by: Furtuka on May 01, 2014, 10:07:03 am
Post by: Solymr on May 01, 2014, 10:08:50 am
Resetting vote. This time use a pointer :P
Post by: birdy51 on May 01, 2014, 10:27:12 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 01, 2014, 11:02:39 am
Post by: Solymr on May 01, 2014, 12:23:14 pm
START TALKING ABOUT PROMOTED CLASSES EVERYONE
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 01, 2014, 12:37:02 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on May 01, 2014, 05:32:45 pm
Post by: birdy51 on May 01, 2014, 05:37:49 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on May 01, 2014, 05:42:37 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on May 01, 2014, 05:43:16 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on May 01, 2014, 05:44:40 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on May 01, 2014, 05:46:17 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on May 01, 2014, 05:46:39 pm
@SC: You didn't know? Well, uh, hurrah for learned knowledge. I recall Haspen stating as such earlier somewhere, either in the FEF Spin-Off or a game here. I'm pretty sure the spin-off though, since they had a bandit.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 01, 2014, 06:49:35 pm
I'll pontificate on my ideas once I get done with dinner after work.
Oh shit, here we go. Splitting these up to keep it from being a wall of text worthy of Alexander.
Spoiler: The Wyvern Promotes (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Mage Promotes (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Fighter Promotes (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: The Bandit/Pirate Tree (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Archer Promotes (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Fencer Promotes (click to show/hide)
Also, sidenote, the thief and spy trees should get an ability to detect traps, and rogues and Master Spies should be able to disarm them. Master Spies get ze traps, as discussed earlier. We'll go back over the available traps before finalizing it, naturally.
Post by: Rolepgeek on May 01, 2014, 06:54:59 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 01, 2014, 07:11:43 pm
People promoting from Troubadours presumably get a second Physical Training, is all, I believe.
...Eh. I guess.
Post by: Shoruke on May 01, 2014, 09:27:04 pm
*yes intensifies*
Given the existence of Longbows and ballistae, I think Snipers should be able to increase their attack range at the cost of accuracy (per tile, up to some maximum)
Post by: Xanmyral on May 01, 2014, 09:31:43 pm
So I don't suggest it, basically. Having extra range is a very powerful thing in a tactical combat game.
Post by: Rolepgeek on May 01, 2014, 09:33:14 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 01, 2014, 09:39:11 pm
I think just plain old normal range increase is fine.
Agreed. Charlotte was/is beastly as she was/is.
Post by: Solymr on May 02, 2014, 08:58:51 am
Now let's start the PRROMOTED CLASSES.
First up the Assassin: does the handbook mean that they lose the other proficiency?
Post by: scapheap on May 02, 2014, 09:37:14 am
I think making the spies the more flexible promote is the right choice here.
Post by: Solymr on May 02, 2014, 09:45:37 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on May 02, 2014, 02:05:48 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 02, 2014, 02:09:06 pm
I thought we already went over this and it was thought that the other proficiency just doesn't get upgraded. :V
This is my preference.
Post by: Solymr on May 02, 2014, 02:11:59 pm
Also I just thought of something: limiting assassination to the weapon type that gets upgraded. So no asploding heads >:V
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on May 02, 2014, 02:14:35 pm
Post by: Solymr on May 02, 2014, 02:21:50 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on May 02, 2014, 02:34:19 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on May 02, 2014, 06:46:05 pm
Post by: Haspen on May 02, 2014, 07:33:00 pm
if you wish to take a peak.
You amurrikans and your mountain-thievery. Hmph!
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 02, 2014, 07:35:03 pm
And staffs have weight now.
A necessary change.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 02, 2014, 07:54:28 pm
You amurrikans and your mountain-thievery. Hmph!
Hey, steal big or go home, you know? We've been contemplating the oceans next.
A necessary change.
A lot of changes there were for the weapons.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 02, 2014, 07:55:51 pm
Obviously all the staves would have a MGT of zero if we did this.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 02, 2014, 07:59:11 pm
I dunno, 0 MT, 0 WT, 80 HIT, 0 Crit, - QL?
Of course, that will lead to shenanigans where people finish enemies by punching them to death instead of using their weapons, in order to conserve QL.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on May 02, 2014, 08:01:04 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 02, 2014, 08:03:36 pm
Of course, that could allow Saints to hold a choke in the most ridiculous way possible. Drop tons of points in STR, DEF, RES, and HP, take Imbue for the character skill and punch everyone out when they come to kill you.
So maybe this is an awful idea.
Post by: Rolepgeek on May 02, 2014, 08:24:08 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 02, 2014, 08:30:09 pm
Staves use MAG for something, so you can't take Imbue.
I meant Center.
They're the same skill, just in reverse.
EDIT: Current poll seems fairly clear cut. What's next?
Post by: Xanmyral on May 02, 2014, 08:39:30 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 02, 2014, 08:45:29 pm
I'm personally happy with the current rules we have with staffs, honestly.
It was mostly idle contemplation anyway. It didn't work well in FE10, it probably wouldn't work well here either.
Post by: Solymr on May 03, 2014, 06:29:27 am
Also I assume that Imbue Arrow can be used at the range that any of the chosen weapons allow.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 03, 2014, 06:56:38 am
Post by: Solymr on May 03, 2014, 07:00:05 am
I see a couple ways to resolve it:
1. The BM chooses the main weapon. Open to abuse.
2. The stats of the weapon with less MT is used. Also determines if uses STR or MAG.
3. The mean of the stats of both weapons are used.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 03, 2014, 07:04:57 am
Oh god why is it suddenly so complicated.
I see a couple ways to resolve it:
1. The BM chooses the main weapon. Open to abuse.
2. The stats of the weapon with less MT is used. Also determines if uses STR or MAG.
3. The mean of the stats of both weapons are used.
1. FEF is all about abuse.
2. I don't like this. What if someone wants to use a longbow of some kind to zap somebody from 3 tiles, but their magic only goes out two and has lower MGT? No way. This does bring up the question of 'what about ballistae', to which I say, what about them?
3. Too much math. Veto.
Post by: Solymr on May 03, 2014, 07:07:43 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 03, 2014, 07:18:16 am
I said before that I assumed it could be used at the range any of the weapons chosen allowed :v
Ehhhhhhhh. Still prefer choosing.
Post by: Solymr on May 03, 2014, 07:24:40 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 03, 2014, 07:26:33 am
Too OP bro. Someone with a superbow and a cheap ass tome or viceversa could just destroy anything since it targets the weakest defensive stat.
But it always takes the weaker MGT. What's the problem here?
Post by: Solymr on May 03, 2014, 07:27:39 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 03, 2014, 07:32:08 am
You just said they would be able to CHOOSE.
OBJECTION!
The Battle Mage should of course mention which weapon is their 'Dominant' weapon when they use imbue arrow. It will use range, accuracy, crit, etc based on that, as well as determining activation of personal skills. Then the lower of the two weapon's MGT is used, then you run it through the battle stat formula like any other attack.
Post by: Solymr on May 03, 2014, 07:38:51 am
Fine I admit that, but there's also Killer weapons, Brave bow, and other special stuff. So 4 attacks at whim bypassing strong defenses is possible.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 03, 2014, 07:44:28 am
>:C
Fine I admit that, but there's also Killer weapons, Brave bow, and other special stuff. So 4 attacks at whim bypassing strong defenses is possible.
It also uses up two weapons to do it. And this stuff is only available to Promoted classes anyhow, it's hardly a Disc One Nuke.
Post by: Solymr on May 03, 2014, 08:07:46 am
Post by: Xanmyral on May 03, 2014, 10:25:56 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 03, 2014, 10:29:37 am
This poll boggles my mind and I can't understand why this is coming under question.
Haspen stated in, I think it was Shattered Hope, that he'd interpret Imbue Arrow as not getting STR or MAG bonus in combat.
So here we are.
Post by: Solymr on May 03, 2014, 10:31:47 am
Post by: Xanmyral on May 03, 2014, 10:33:39 am
Without either stats, at promoted levels you're almost guaranteed to be doing either no damage or piddly damage that barely hits the single digits. Its special effects aren't that great and only work on if you miss.
The skill even stats to use the ATK (AT) of the weakest weapon (thus meaning it applies STR and MAG, and you're not to choose the weapon with the lowest MT but the lowest Base Damage(as in, if you have 4 MAG and an MT 10 weapon, and 10 STR and an MT 6, you don't base calculations off of the MT 6 weapon but the MT 10 weapon because it has the lowest AT(K))).
And I'm of the opinion that range is hard coded to the bow, the rest of the stats dependent on which has the lowest AT(K).
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 03, 2014, 10:35:54 am
Post by: Shoruke on May 03, 2014, 06:19:46 pm
Haspen stated in, I think it was Shattered Hope, that he'd interpret Imbue Arrow as not getting STR or MAG bonus in combatThat's just great, but "what Haspen says" doesn't count as "what the rules are", outside of the games he runs. We are writing the rulebook for FEF. Not for Haspen's games. Thus, the rules will be decided on by the community, and written clearly.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 03, 2014, 06:29:14 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on May 03, 2014, 09:22:16 pm
Well, that's why we decide the exact correct interpretation first, then write it up so it can't be misinterpreted.
Well, that's not actually possible.
Someone will still manage to misinterpret it. Possibly on purpose. It's occasionally called Munchkin-ing.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 03, 2014, 09:53:30 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on May 03, 2014, 10:54:34 pm
Someone will still manage to misinterpret it. Possibly on purpose. It's occasionally called Munchkin-ing.
And those people are terrible people. While you have to account for the malicious, its impossible to make something completely proofed.
But this isn't to prevent those people (that's to be dealt with intraparty like), its to help people who may be confused by the terminology (referring to something that's never brought up in the book, for instance), and to hopefully clear misunderstandings.
Post by: Rolepgeek on May 03, 2014, 11:06:55 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on May 03, 2014, 11:12:42 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on May 03, 2014, 11:16:18 pm
Post by: Swordstar on May 03, 2014, 11:16:27 pm
Edit: If you give me a list of the ailments, I can make a list of descriptions.
Post by: scapheap on May 04, 2014, 03:09:27 am
Post by: Solymr on May 04, 2014, 06:02:06 am
Even if most people already know :V
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 04, 2014, 08:04:40 am
Sleep, poison, silence, Paralyse, Berserk and Stone.
Poison: Deals 1-5 (We could make this 6 by the way, be simpler for dice rollers) damage per turn at the beginning of the unit's phase. Lasts 3 turns.
Silence: Prevents the unit from using tomes or staves. The unit also cannot communicate verbally with other units. Lasts 3 turns.
Berserk: Forces the unit to attack the nearest enemy unit at the beginning of their phase. If there are no enemy units in range, the unit will attack the closest Ally. If no one is in range, the unit will move toward the closest other unit. Activated Effects cannot be activated while Berserk. Lasts 3 turns.
Sleep: The unit cannot move or act while afflicted with sleep. Attacks automatically hit a sleeping unit. A sleeping unit who is attacked immediately wakes up, but cannot counter the attack that wakes them. Lasts 3 turns.
Paralyze: The unit cannot move or act while afflicted with Paralyze. Attacks automatically hit a paralyzed unit. Lasts 3 turns.
Stone: The unit cannot move or act while afflicted with Stone. Units afflicted by Stone cannot be targeted by attacks or any healing besides that which would remove the Stone condition. Lasts 3 turns.
Fear: The unit afflicted with this condition cannot initiate battle. Additionally, they must spend their move action running toward allies if they are alone, or seeking defensive terrain if they are not. If the target can reach better defensive terrain with their MOV, they must do so. Lasts 3 turns.
Also, this forced me to notice a couple things:
1. We have three ailments that do basically the same thing here. And one of them is better than the others, but not the highest level staff of its kind.
2. The ailment staves say they put the ailment on the target for 3 rounds, not five! We've been gettin' screwed!
So, I say we swap the stats on the Stone and Paralyze staves for fairly obvious reasons. We can put that to a vote later.
Also, Fear was under Dancers special dances and didn't elaborate, so I took the liberty. Never seen that effect except in PS's game, so let's come to a satisfactory effect together.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 04, 2014, 10:08:04 am
Alright, now we have to clarify if the chosen weapon is lower MT or lower ATK (MT+STR/MAG).
Even if most people already know :V
It does state it plainly in the book, after all.
Post by: Rolepgeek on May 04, 2014, 10:46:17 am
Haspen also has Slow and Muddle in his games, apparently. Though just monsters are using those.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 04, 2014, 10:48:17 am
There are a couple that do direct status effects with a duration of 2, interestingly.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 04, 2014, 10:55:24 am
Post by: Solymr on May 04, 2014, 11:00:52 am
Also I thought stone caused enemies to get bonus crit against stoned guy?
Post by: Xanmyral on May 04, 2014, 11:03:44 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 04, 2014, 11:06:45 am
Poison lasts for four turns, as a note. Well, going by 1.22. A good chunk is three though.
Poison in weak enough. I have no problem bumping it to 4 or even 5.
We've been ripped off!
Also I thought stone caused enemies to get bonus crit against stoned guy?
Uh, maybe? I don't recall any of the units I had turned to stone in FE8 being attacked.
Could make it the same a Paralyze with the further issue of having your DG not factored in... And that would make it objectively better than paralyze... But does it need to be?
Post by: Solymr on May 04, 2014, 11:13:20 am
And sleep allows evading.
Post by: Rolepgeek on May 04, 2014, 11:19:35 am
Why not just have stone double the crit chance you get from SKL? So it's equal to your SKL rather than SKL/2 against Stoned enemies.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 04, 2014, 11:24:33 am
And sleep dodging is a thing in the games that we didn't really bring over. Of course, you couldn't be slapped awake in the games either.
Post by: Rolepgeek on May 04, 2014, 11:29:38 am
Also, it really isn't autocritting. It's, at most, a 15 point bonus, or a 23 with Resolve or some such.
Post by: Solymr on May 04, 2014, 11:33:37 am
Why not make it flat +25 crit against stoned guy. Because negative dodge math too hard.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 04, 2014, 11:35:15 am
I guess we'll vote on the specific effects later.
K sleep can be slapped out of.
Why not make it flat +25 crit against stoned guy. Because negative dodge math too hard.
What? All it requires is that you don't take the defende's dg into account when you put the battle formula through. It removes a step!
Post by: Solymr on May 04, 2014, 11:45:06 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 04, 2014, 12:03:40 pm
So it's dependant on luck to determine how good it is? I dun like it.
It's already better than paralyze. And even the most unlucky character will have a few points, so it's not like it'll do nothing. And enemy units tend to have balanced luck so it should still be useful to players.
Edit: Was discussing this with my dad just now and he thinks it should be like paralyze but requiring magical restoration. So, no countdown to normalcy.
Post by: birdy51 on May 04, 2014, 12:04:29 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on May 04, 2014, 12:07:22 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 04, 2014, 12:09:14 pm
No slapping out of sleeping. The whole basis of that idea is that the sleep is generally magically induced, and therefore stronger than just normal sleeping.
Then it's no different than paralyze. Ugh.
Okay, if we do that, sleeping characters can dodge, and so can paralyzed characters but they have their evade halved.
Stone would work like paralyze does now.
Post by: Solymr on May 04, 2014, 12:13:49 pm
Sleep forces you to choose between leaving the enemy so it doesn't bother you or making a sure hit but them snapping out.
If you do that then it's just a cheaper paralyze that allows you to attack all the time you want and they still can't respond even if they can evade it.
WHICH DOESN'T MAKE SENSE BECAUSE THEY'RE ASLEEP
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 04, 2014, 12:27:36 pm
So what do we think of stone having infinite duration?
On a related note, am I the only one who thinks staves are too accurate?
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on May 04, 2014, 12:29:19 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 04, 2014, 12:33:03 pm
...do we need stone? I don't like it and it doesn't seem to rightfully have anything paralyze doesn't.
Post by: Haspen on May 04, 2014, 12:34:43 pm
...do we need stone? I don't like it and it doesn't seem to rightfully have anything paralyze doesn't.
/me approves.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 04, 2014, 12:36:47 pm
Stone works like paralyze bu treats the target like an obstacle. And if they're reduced to 0 Hit points... They're dead.
Post by: Solymr on May 04, 2014, 12:39:41 pm
We could make it slightly longer duration. Like paralyze only 3 and stone 5.
Also staves too accurate is an impression ledt by GMs that overstat enemies :P
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 04, 2014, 12:41:51 pm
Also staves too accurate is an impression ledt by GMs that overstat enemies :PI disagree, Edwin had strong hit rates with his staves despite rolling like shit.
Post by: Solymr on May 04, 2014, 12:47:47 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 04, 2014, 12:50:10 pm
How did Haspen calculate staff% on his games?
The formula in the book if I'm not mistaken.
Post by: Solymr on May 04, 2014, 12:53:53 pm
Btw, since we're supposed to be discussing promoted classes, I thought of something for mage knights: if they promote from troubadour they get a bonus rank in their physical proficiency.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 04, 2014, 12:55:16 pm
We might consider bumping the multiplier on the difference down to 3 instead of 5. Same for dances.
Btw, since we're supposed to be discussing promoted classes, I thought of something for mage knights: if they promote from troubadour they get a bonus rank in their physical proficiency.
B and C? Or just maybe give them another weapon category?
Post by: Solymr on May 04, 2014, 12:58:40 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 04, 2014, 01:00:07 pm
Post by: Solymr on May 04, 2014, 01:05:46 pm
I was looking at v1.22 and I saw this for Imbue Arrow:
Higher of STR or MAG + MT (and stats) of weaker weapon - lower of enemy's DEF or RES.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 04, 2014, 01:08:58 pm
I would prefer it being one at B/C.
I was looking at v1.22 and I saw this for Imbue Arrow:
Higher of STR or MAG + MT (and stats) of weaker weapon - lower of enemy's DEF or RES.
Hissssss.
Post by: Solymr on May 04, 2014, 01:20:50 pm
Btw can you show us your class flavor?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 04, 2014, 01:23:44 pm
Is that a no :v
Btw can you show us your class flavor?
Yes and no, respectively. But I can show the class flavor I've got done when I get home.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 04, 2014, 02:33:21 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 04, 2014, 02:37:39 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on May 04, 2014, 02:52:04 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on May 04, 2014, 03:01:58 pm
Oh, I vote that the non-Might stats of the weapon with higher Might be used, by the way. Makes more sense to me, means choosing your weapons matters a shit. This includes range. HOWEVER, Weight should be whichever one is higher.
Speaking of which, I vote that special qualities from either one affect the combo, regardless of MT. Things like 'Effective against/on' and 'Scores twice as many hits' and whatnot. Again, makes it more important what you choose. (If the GM gave the battle-mage a Brave Bow and Sun Fire/Lunar Wind, that's his own damn fault)
Post by: Solymr on May 04, 2014, 03:03:57 pm
Also this is so battle mage isn't always inferior to mage knight.
Post by: Rolepgeek on May 04, 2014, 03:05:38 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 04, 2014, 06:09:37 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on May 04, 2014, 06:33:48 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 04, 2014, 06:54:32 pm
It can be viewed either as the bow acting merely as a conduit for the magic, or the magic being used to subtly enhance the arrow. It could be either, I think.
Post by: Solymr on May 05, 2014, 08:21:06 am
Now for a little something something for Berserkers.
Post by: Haspen on May 05, 2014, 08:49:02 am
Now for a little something something for Berserkers.
Do you need to make everything a formality? :P
Post by: Solymr on May 05, 2014, 08:56:10 am
And btw, FALLOUT EMBLEM IS COMING.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 05, 2014, 08:56:56 am
Also, Bishops are pretty nice. Shield that block siege magic (good lord that stuff is annoying late game) and staffs galore. I think it even stops ailment staffs, I'd have to look at the wording again.
EDIT: Guess it depends on if ailment staff usage counts as an attack.
Post by: scapheap on May 05, 2014, 08:58:55 am
And btw, FALLOUT EMBLEM IS COMING.:o
I demand a save place(I'm assuming Solymr is the gm for that.)
Post by: Haspen on May 05, 2014, 09:00:03 am
Steal Weapon is apparently too op.
You can't Steal Weapon if your STR/CON is lesser than Target's (cuz you trying to wrestle it out of hands or something). Of course you need to have empty inventory slot to do that. Bosses are immune cuz bosses!
There, I fixed Steal Weapon v:
And btw, FALLOUT EMBLEM IS COMING.:o
I demand a save place(I'm assuming Solymr is the gm for that.)
He ain't gonna start till summer cuz I'm helping him and while his general idea is OK I worry about the details.
Post by: Solymr on May 05, 2014, 09:09:41 am
Ye I'll be the GM. And the first part will have a limit of 7-8 players cause it will be small scale test of my skillz.
And you're trying to wrestle the weapon from a dead guy's hand :V
I'd give it a luck% chance or something as chances of the weapon not breaking when murderizing the guy holding it.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 05, 2014, 09:17:11 am
Post by: Haspen on May 05, 2014, 09:30:02 am
But Steal Weapon is an activated action, not an attack :v How does that murder peoples.
Post by: Solymr on May 05, 2014, 09:34:17 am
It's a passive that activates when landing the killing blow.
Post by: Haspen on May 05, 2014, 09:35:07 am
WHAT NO
It's a passive that activates when landing the killing blow.
Oooh. OP, fix eet! :V
Post by: darkpaladin109 on May 05, 2014, 09:36:33 am
Berserkers seem to be okay, though I'm inclined to give them some base Critical. So yes, I think they should get Critical Eye.
EDIT: For steal weapon, it does say "At the GM's discretion, this skill can have it's limits." So what I think we should do to change it is make it so that the Bounty Hunter must have enough rank to use the weapon dropped. And we should propably fix Omni Weapon, cause being able to use pretty much all weapons sounds OP to me.
Post by: Solymr on May 05, 2014, 09:40:40 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 05, 2014, 10:01:22 am
I feel we'd save time if we just voted on accepting Haspen's house rules whole sale.
Excuse you, altered blossom and critical eye for berserkers was my idea, mister.
Also I take issue with other certain changes.
To fix steal weapon, just allow one theft per map.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 05, 2014, 11:04:29 am
Post by: Shoruke on May 05, 2014, 11:56:27 am
So how about if you can only steal up to CON*2 (or maybe CON*3) in total WT per map?
CON*2 would give you enough capacity to steal either one high-end weapon, or two "merely quite good" weapons.
CON*3 would let you take either one high-end and one middling weapon, or four low-middling weapons.
Personally, I like CON*3; bounty hunting is half the point of playing a Bounty Hunter, after all. (the other half being insane weapon versatility)
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 05, 2014, 02:27:27 pm
@BMM: Oh yeah, they were. Sorry about that, forgot.
I wasn't really mad. Who came up with what idea isn't very important in the long run.
Post by: Rolepgeek on May 05, 2014, 09:43:56 pm
I feel we'd save time if we just voted on accepting Haspen's house rules whole sale.Considering I disagree with several of his rulings, I would rather we not.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 05, 2014, 09:47:19 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on May 05, 2014, 09:50:47 pm
As for Steal Weapon, I feel like it's necessary for Omni-Weapon to truly come into it's own. Maybe they have to declare whether they want to before they attack, and their ATK is halved for that specific attack? So they have to do it to already weakened enemies?
I mean, there's still inventory limit and what not. And GMs can just 'fuck no you aren't getting a third killer blade fuck off' after all. Some are immune to it, after all~
Post by: Xanmyral on May 05, 2014, 10:06:51 pm
You did say 'whole sale'...
Which means in large bulk, but implies nothing more.
I just figure it would save us some time on things which most people agree on, like the hard limit of five inventory and so such. You act like we can't change stuff at the drop of a hat if we don't like it or somethin'.
Post by: Shoruke on May 06, 2014, 12:32:03 am
You act like we can't change stuff at the drop of a hat if we don't like it or somethin'.We really should run the changes through the official thread you know. ;D
With that said, if people like Haspen's rulings, put them to vote, and if people like them, they'll go into the new handbook.
Should the next vote be on the "hard 5-item cap", just to take a break from class tweaking?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 06, 2014, 06:31:22 am
Post by: Solymr on May 06, 2014, 06:32:33 am
Ok maybe after Bounty Hunter. But I'm using all this in Fallout Emblem so I want to get this ready.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 06, 2014, 06:45:25 am
No :P
Ok maybe after Bounty Hunter. But I'm using all this in Fallout Emblem so I want to get this ready.
But promotions will be a long way off. What about character skills too? That also needs to be addressed. If you're trying to make sure the changes are ready in time we should focus on things that'll show up in the early game.
Post by: Solymr on May 06, 2014, 06:59:41 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 06, 2014, 07:03:48 am
Several skills were removed early on for reasons but none were ever added.
Also the new Blossom and altered Discipline should also be officially handled.
Post by: Solymr on May 06, 2014, 07:08:39 am
Also you should post the descriptions of those skills cause I don't remember.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 06, 2014, 07:19:52 am
Sol: skill and luck % chance to receive healing equal to half damage dealt on a successful attack.
Luna: same chance to reduce enemy defense or resistance by half before damage calculations.
Ignis: same chance to add str to mag based attacks or mag to str based attacks.
Thinking Sol and Luna should be cost while ignis remains free, since using it effectively requires points in both Str and Mag.
Post by: Solymr on May 06, 2014, 07:25:17 am
So this is a summary of the character skill changes:
Miracle: if activated the character is left at 1 HP. Can't activate at 1 HP.
Corrosion and Reinforce: gone.
Blossom: +5% progression to all stats.
Discipline: you can choose what rank to advance.
Sol: SKL+LCK% chance of healing half damage done on each attack. COST
Luna: SKL+LCK% chance of ignoring half the defensive stats of enemy on each attack. COST
Ignis: SKL+LCK% chance of adding half STR to magical attacks or half MAG to physical attacks on each attack.
I forgot Charisma and Daunt not stacking.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 06, 2014, 07:32:34 am
If a character uses a tome, and ignis activates, half strength is added.
If the character uses a sword and it activates, it adds half of their magic instead.
It doesn't just combine both. That'd be broken.
And skill was already a god stat.
Also I thought we were changing miracle to just not activate on one Hp?
edit because whoops
Post by: Solymr on May 06, 2014, 07:34:48 am
Also yeah I forgot that too V:
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 06, 2014, 07:35:52 am
Post by: Furtuka on May 06, 2014, 07:46:39 am
Post by: Solymr on May 06, 2014, 07:48:25 am
Post by: Furtuka on May 06, 2014, 07:57:23 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 06, 2014, 07:58:51 am
Personally I thought the famous attacking skills would be better saved for when we make the third tier classes. Since thats what they were used for in Radiant Dawn, which is the game most of the book is based on.
Well, some promotions come with character skills. We can do that too.
Also, certain skills just wouldn't fit before then, and can be left until that point. Astra, anyone?
Post by: Furtuka on May 06, 2014, 07:59:31 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 06, 2014, 08:01:34 am
Post by: Solymr on May 06, 2014, 08:07:02 am
Post by: Furtuka on May 06, 2014, 08:11:17 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 06, 2014, 08:14:18 am
Since they're supplementary stuff they're best left for later :-X
Furt does make a point though. It's not as if we're designing Trueblades right now.
But all the third promotes should get certain fun skills. If we just increase the stat cap slightly, whats the fun in that?
Post by: Solymr on May 06, 2014, 08:17:32 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 06, 2014, 08:18:57 am
Problem is how many and how to promote to them.
Master Seal aka special promotion item. And I think just one promotion per promoted class. Easier that way.
Post by: Furtuka on May 06, 2014, 08:21:13 am
Post by: Solymr on May 06, 2014, 08:21:59 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 06, 2014, 08:23:33 am
That's a lot of classes.
It always is.
Post by: Solymr on May 06, 2014, 08:32:16 am
Let's finish the other stuff k? I'll put up a new poll in a sec.
Btw Blade check scap's game I asked you something.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 06, 2014, 08:35:45 am
:I
Let's finish the other stuff k? I'll put up a new poll in a sec.
Btw Blade check scap's game I asked you something.
Third classes are after promotes, yes.
And if it's aboit the healing, I'll get to it.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 06, 2014, 08:50:49 am
Post by: Powder Miner on May 06, 2014, 08:55:27 am
Post by: Solymr on May 06, 2014, 08:56:02 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 06, 2014, 09:57:19 am
But communal EXP is in the book :I
That it is.
But it's also a bit weird? I go off the book fairly closely for Exp, and you guys level fairly quickly in noh. Maybe a bit more than 100 points should be required depending on group size...
@ Powder: That's why it's an expansion.
Edit: back to driving :I
Post by: Haspen on May 06, 2014, 10:28:12 am
But it's also a bit weird? I go off the book fairly closely for Exp, and you guys level fairly quickly in noh. Maybe a bit more than 100 points should be required depending on group size...
3 per hit and 5 per kill for average mook, that's how I rule in my FEFs :V
Maybe you use 5 and 10 points respectively (much stronger enemies) all the time? v:
Post by: Solymr on May 06, 2014, 10:48:16 am
Post by: Haspen on May 06, 2014, 10:51:58 am
Do you count both hit and kill exp on the same attack?
Me? Of course not. You either hit, or you either kill :v Also, you get Hit exp no matter how many attacks you lay on the enemy (via doubling or other shenanigans).
Post by: birdy51 on May 06, 2014, 11:19:19 am
Post by: Haspen on May 06, 2014, 11:24:37 am
Post by: Solymr on May 06, 2014, 11:31:50 am
Post by: Haspen on May 06, 2014, 11:33:31 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 06, 2014, 03:12:28 pm
Post by: Propman on May 07, 2014, 12:15:24 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 07, 2014, 06:33:22 am
Unrelated, but reading the name "Bounty Hunter" in the title springs images of a fellow who goes around stealing paper towels from dispensers, hoarding them in a stash for purposes best left unknown.
Joking aside, I wonder why the people who put this together heard Bounty Hunter and thought 'dude who steals weapons'. I don't need to tell you people that that isn't how bounty hunters usually work.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on May 07, 2014, 06:39:10 am
Strictly speaking, maybe Scavenger and Bounty Hunter should have their abilities switched. It makes more sense for a scavenger to be taking weapons, boots, etc. off a dead enemy while a bounty hunter would be getting 'paid' for killing dangerous foes, right?
Post by: darkpaladin109 on May 07, 2014, 06:40:45 am
I guess they wanted a thief promote to have that ability and couldn't figure out a different one for bounty hunters?Yeah, that acutally makes more sense to me too. I'm all up for switching the abilites of the two classes around.
Strictly speaking, maybe Scavenger and Bounty Hunter should have their abilities switched. It makes more sense for a scavenger to be taking weapons, boots, etc. off a dead enemy while a bounty hunter would be getting 'paid' for killing dangerous foes, right?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 07, 2014, 06:42:58 am
Kind of odd though, there tends to be some prestige in bounty hunting, whereas scavenging... Yeah.
Post by: Solymr on May 07, 2014, 06:43:35 am
Post by: darkpaladin109 on May 07, 2014, 06:44:23 am
Why not just change their names? :VSo what? It's the same end result anyways. :P
Post by: Solymr on May 07, 2014, 06:46:32 am
If you change abilities you end up with a first class with an OP ability.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on May 07, 2014, 06:47:50 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 07, 2014, 06:48:39 am
No wai :I
If you change abilities you end up with a first class with an OP ability.
That you do.
Post by: Solymr on May 07, 2014, 06:49:59 am
Post by: darkpaladin109 on May 07, 2014, 06:52:23 am
....I though Scavenger was a promoted class, not a first class. My bad :PNo wai :I
If you change abilities you end up with a first class with an OP ability.
That you do.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 07, 2014, 06:53:20 am
We could change Bounty Hunter to Treasure Hunter :v
OOH. Yes.
Post by: Solymr on May 07, 2014, 07:40:36 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 07, 2014, 10:02:48 pm
I suggest we move on to Wyvern promotes, as one is lackluster, and the other is just absurd.
Spoiler: My thoughts on the Wyvern Promotes again for your perusal (click to show/hide)
Also, I'll be taking some time to work more on the class fluff this week, as I have about a third of the promotions done.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 07, 2014, 10:22:45 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 07, 2014, 10:25:12 pm
So with the wyvern knight, we're going under the assumption of assuming Haspen's fix for Nullify?
I dunno about that shit.
But I think making it a cost skill would be a dandy idea.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 07, 2014, 10:26:33 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 07, 2014, 10:32:46 pm
If we aren't (Haspen's being pick an effectivity towards you and you nullify it), then there's no reason to be a wyvern knight beyond the stat gains. The cost skill, while more costly, would still nullify a reason to be the class.
As it is, who plans to become a Wyvern Knight without grabbing Nullify?
No one ever. Because being extra harassed by 73 weapons is a daunting prospect. If this promotion becomes available, maybe that trend will start to descend somewhat.
We could also put in a footnote saying that they can drop Nullify for a different Cost skill, or a free skill and get some progression back, like other instances where classes come with a Character Skill.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 07, 2014, 10:35:19 pm
Getting a cost skill back isn't really worth it honestly, that's a lot of levels you've lost out on those thirty points.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 07, 2014, 10:36:42 pm
Any better ideas?
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on May 07, 2014, 10:41:49 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on May 07, 2014, 10:43:13 pm
Wyvern tree is the only real tree with three different branches of weapons effective against them, knight tree only has one, mounted only has one, pegasi have two. Any other class doesn't really have anything to worry about that much because the amount of weapons effective against them are rather slim.
Nothing wrong with making it cost though, long as it maintains the whole of the protection, but having a cost skill that can outshine a promoted class skill strikes me as, well, weird.
Fake Edit: I need to buy a tinfoil hat.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 07, 2014, 10:45:40 pm
-snip-
-snop-
I like it! *throws coffee mug to the ground*
Alright, I'm getting loopy. Going to bed.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 07, 2014, 10:48:46 pm
Post by: Solymr on May 08, 2014, 05:47:59 am
Btw I forgot to put Nullify in the list but I wanted to add the Haspen change of Nullify only nullifying one aspect of weakness: horseback, flying, wyvern, etc.
One last thing: 2x effective damage is still a lot, and removing thunder weakness on top of it feels like giving them mixed stuff. I suggest reducing all effective damage to 1.5x without removing thunder as weakness. That way effective damage is still useful but doesn't kick the wyvern's ass.
Post by: Haspen on May 08, 2014, 06:13:11 am
/me isn't :P
Post by: Solymr on May 08, 2014, 06:28:18 am
Btw in Fallot Emblem I'm going to use all of this.
Post by: Haspen on May 08, 2014, 06:47:39 am
Btw in Fallow Emblem I'm going to use all of this.ftfy
Ah yes, the Fallow Emblem, where mighty team of newbie farmers battle the evil Princess Weed to save the young eggplants from monster ants.
:P
Post by: Solymr on May 08, 2014, 06:50:29 am
I'm laughing too much to fix that
Post by: Shoruke on May 08, 2014, 09:32:56 am
I wonder why the people who put this together heard Bounty Hunter and thought 'dude who steals weapons'. I don't need to tell you people that that isn't how bounty hunters usually work.How "bounty hunting" works:
1) kill
2) obtain money / loot
I mean, sure, the people you kill in Fire Emblem may not necessarily have official bounties placed on them, but got paid don't care.
Keep Nullify free, but make it drop effective damage to 2x instead of 3x? And then Wyvern Knight could stack with it to completely eliminate effective damage maybe?I like 'dis. Assuming Nullify works on all of one's weaknesses.
Post by: Solymr on May 08, 2014, 09:41:38 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 08, 2014, 09:49:08 am
Right after we vote on changing the name of Bounty Hunter to Treasure Hunter. It works so well!
Post by: darkpaladin109 on May 08, 2014, 09:58:20 am
Time to officially swap to fixing character skills.Didn't we say we were renaming Scavenger to Bounty Hunter and Bounty Hunter to Scavenger?
Right after we vote on changing the name of Bounty Hunter to Treasure Hunter. It works so well!
Post by: Solymr on May 08, 2014, 09:59:31 am
Now we send the Bounty Hunter to the judge to ask for a name change :3
Also Treasure Hunter fits better.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 08, 2014, 10:06:01 am
Time to officially swap to fixing character skills.Didn't we say we were renaming Scavenger to Bounty Hunter and Bounty Hunter to Scavenger?
Right after we vote on changing the name of Bounty Hunter to Treasure Hunter. It works so well!
That can also be a vote option.
But I think Bounty Hunter occasionally has some level of prestige associated with it, and also going from a lowly scavenger to an esteemed treasure hunter sounds more promotiony than going to a scavenger, y'know?
Post by: Solymr on May 08, 2014, 10:07:28 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 08, 2014, 10:10:49 am
Well it's mostly because its promotion item is TREASURE MARK.
Another fine point.
Post by: Solymr on May 09, 2014, 06:17:20 am
Next up is character classes I think. I'll put first the big bunk of changes and then focus on Nullify.
... I knew this would happen >:I
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 09, 2014, 07:40:13 am
And we should probably do each skill individually so people don't eschew changing anything just because they like one particular thing.
Post by: Solymr on May 09, 2014, 07:50:50 am
List of changes:
New skills:
Sol: SKL+LCK% chance of healing half damage done on each attack. COST
Luna: SKL+LCK% chance of ignoring half the defensive stats of enemy on each attack. COST
Ignis: SKL+LCK% chance of adding half STR to magical attacks or half MAG to physical attacks on each attack.
Significant changes:
Miracle: if activated the character is left at 1 HP. Can't activate at 1 HP.
Blossom: +5% progression to all stats.
Small changes:
Discipline: you can choose what rank to advance.
Charisma and Daunt: they don't stack.
Gone skills:
Reinforce and Corrosion.
Nullify shall be put apart.
Post by: Furtuka on May 09, 2014, 08:02:32 am
Post by: Solymr on May 09, 2014, 08:07:58 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 09, 2014, 08:54:16 am
As for how it works...
Aether: SKL% chance. On activation, performs Sol and Luna in succession. Double Cost.
It shouldn't get the Plus Luck because it's basically 3 skills at once (Sol, Luna, and Adept if you think about it)
Gonna go ahead and say that I doubt this is necessary.
Post by: Solymr on May 09, 2014, 08:58:38 am
Oh welp, remember that NPCs and lords are suggestions too :P
Post by: darkpaladin109 on May 09, 2014, 09:00:40 am
Oh it's two attacks? I thought it was both effects in the same attack.Yeah, you'd think I'd do that, but that's just how it works in Awakening.
Post by: Solymr on May 09, 2014, 09:06:43 am
Then it's just Lords choose between Heroic Potential or Aether.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 09, 2014, 09:08:51 am
Radiant Dawn also. Not sure about Path of Radiance, since I haven't gotten too far there yet.Oh it's two attacks? I thought it was both effects in the same attack.Yeah, you'd think I'd do that, but that's just how it works in Awakening.
Did I mention the skill seems needless and OP?
Then why not make it both in one attack, SKL% chance and cost?
Then it's just Lords choose between Heroic Potential or Aether.
Not really? Lords always get Heroic Potential, and that removes their 4 bonus points in exchange for 30% extra progression. So if we did that, they'd have the same growths as a normal character, plus Aether. No other character skill, but still.
Did I mention I don't like having this skill at all?
Post by: Solymr on May 09, 2014, 09:11:39 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 09, 2014, 09:15:52 am
Are yoy kidding me I want to finish this year >:V
List of changes:
New skills:
Sol: SKL+LCK% chance of healing half damage done on each attack. COST
Luna: SKL+LCK% chance of ignoring half the defensive stats of enemy on each attack. COST
Ignis: SKL+LCK% chance of adding half STR to magical attacks or half MAG to physical attacks on each attack.
Significant changes:
Miracle: if activated the character is left at 1 HP. Can't activate at 1 HP.
Blossom: +5% progression to all stats.
Small changes:
Discipline: you can choose what rank to advance.
Charisma and Daunt: they don't stack.
Gone skills:
Reinforce and Corrosion.
Nullify shall be put apart.
So getting back to these skills- Can we at least separate their voting by types as you have them divided here? It'd be simple to do, and would help with low options voting.
Post by: Solymr on May 09, 2014, 09:28:36 am
But I need a final answer to the Hunter's name :-X
Edit: welp since there is a tie between yes or no let's do both. Bounty Hunters can also be named Treasure Hunters like Nomads/Bow Knights :>
Changing poll soon.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 09, 2014, 09:51:34 am
Post by: Xanmyral on May 09, 2014, 10:46:09 am
Post by: Solymr on May 09, 2014, 10:48:39 am
Should we remove it? That way we keep the same amount of skills.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 09, 2014, 12:52:28 pm
Awareness should probably be free rather than cost though.
Post by: Solymr on May 09, 2014, 12:56:49 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 09, 2014, 01:06:17 pm
I think they should remain separate.
Post by: Solymr on May 09, 2014, 01:11:56 pm
If GMs used more enemies with skills Awareness would be good, and if Parity didn't remove the player's bonus it wouldn't be so crap.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 09, 2014, 01:21:25 pm
And if we changed Awareness to ignoring skills and support and terrain it would be broken even with being cost.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 09, 2014, 01:51:40 pm
It'll actually be handy when/if my game goes up, although the lack of personal skills and supports would still be a detract against it.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 09, 2014, 02:39:47 pm
Okay, so what Awareness currently does is ignore class and character skills. As most games only have that for bosses and other named enemies, I think this should be free, not cost. Also, in 1.22, it also ignores their personal skills, but leaves their faults, not that most enemies have them.
I still think Parity has enough situational use that it doesn't need a revamp. For example, it would be deadly against Prixima, who likely has 3 or more character skills and some nasty special class features as well. Just because it's only good against bosses doesn't make it bad. That's like saying crossbows are lousy because they're heavy and only do good damage against fliers.
Post by: Solymr on May 09, 2014, 02:44:30 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 09, 2014, 02:48:16 pm
Seems like it would be most useful for enemies that for actual players.
Well yeah. But only because most enemies don't have it. That doesn't diminish its usefulness to a player.
Post by: Solymr on May 09, 2014, 02:51:02 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 09, 2014, 02:52:30 pm
I think we should leave these two alone because it's very hard to make them work without intervention of the GM.
I think Parity is fine, but Awareness has too little benefit as is- Make it free instead of Cost, and if a GM wants to give all enemies class skills, they can change it back for the game.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 09, 2014, 03:07:56 pm
Just because it's only good against bosses doesn't make it bad.
Just like tile/terrain-based skills aren't bad either?
Its a hilariously situation skill because of how GMs play the game, which is that only bosses have class skills, maybe character skills. Even then, its more harm than good because it also blocks yours and your personal skills, which so far we've only seen NPCs with. Supports we've only seen twice, which speaks clearly about how often that comes up.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 09, 2014, 03:19:56 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on May 09, 2014, 04:02:56 pm
Post by: Solymr on May 09, 2014, 06:21:31 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 09, 2014, 06:27:22 pm
Okay, can we move on to stuff we can fix yet?
Post by: Solymr on May 09, 2014, 06:35:33 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 09, 2014, 06:39:25 pm
Other character skill issues plz
EDIT: Anonymous no vote: Please explain yourself. I am interested in your opinion.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 09, 2014, 06:51:39 pm
Can the bishop not move to where the shield would let units that weren't originally in it would be inside (similar to how they cannot move to where any unit that was originally inside the shield is now outside of its protection and possibly how it may be intended due to wording), or can they envelop new units into their shield so long as they don't exclude those originally included?
Will there be a cool down for the skill? Does the activation eat up their non-moving action and still allow them to move or is it free? Is there a way to break it if there is no cool down? 'Cause I can see a bishop easily holding a corridor by themselves by just activating this over and over again. Granted, people are now down a healer and that most likely really bites, and people can't attack units on the other side of the shield if inside of it.
I like the skill 'cause shield, but it needs a bit of clarifications and possible reworking due to shenanigans.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 09, 2014, 08:02:36 pm
On the Bishop's turn, they can use their standard action to set up the sanctuary zone. This means they need to move first or not at all on the initial turn. On the following turn, the zone is still in place until the Bishop completes their turn. If they choose to move the next turn, they can only move as far as they can without leaving behind units who were still in the zone at the beginning of their action. If they do anything but maintain the zone, it dissipates. If they use their action to maintain the zone, the same thing goes on next turn.
The zone cannot envelope units who were outside it at the time of casting, as the description states that no attacks or any unit can enter the zone. It can envelope enemy units at the time of casting however, if they are in range, temporarily separating them from their comrades. However, the Bishop cannot counter attack while maintaining the zone. Units can leave the zone at any time, but cannot re-enter.
A Bishop who has received an additional turn must use their second action to either set up or maintain the zone, or it dissipates.
That's how I see it anyhow.
Post by: Solymr on May 10, 2014, 05:53:42 am
I don't think there's any reason for the Bishop to activate the Sanctuary first and then move, but it's fine to say they can use their action to Sanctuary and then move.
I do think that it only lasts until the next player/enemy/ally phase, and I'm not sure if units inside the circle can move out of it on their own accord (bishop trolling? :V).
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 10, 2014, 11:04:39 am
I think it makes sense for units to be able to go out, but not in.
Post by: Solymr on May 10, 2014, 11:12:12 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 10, 2014, 11:15:57 am
Post by: Solymr on May 10, 2014, 02:44:29 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 10, 2014, 04:21:28 pm
Post by: Solymr on May 10, 2014, 04:23:33 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on May 10, 2014, 05:03:49 pm
Discipline bonus ranks do carry over to promoted classes, right?
Post by: Solymr on May 10, 2014, 05:07:08 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on May 10, 2014, 05:08:42 pm
Otherwise it requires weird juggling of proficiencies to be useful.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 10, 2014, 05:10:39 pm
Post by: Solymr on May 10, 2014, 05:12:46 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 10, 2014, 05:13:54 pm
Say that to Ursa.
Ehehehehehehe.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 10, 2014, 05:13:57 pm
I do think the upgrades should carry over though.
Dang ninjas.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 10, 2014, 05:16:38 pm
Edit: Had a thought- Since stone seems to be unliked by most... Why not replace the stone staff with a Fear staff? It's the only status effect that doesn't have a staff.
Of course, it's also the only one that the Dancer has uniquely... But I think it's a good replacement.
Post by: Solymr on May 11, 2014, 04:27:30 am
How about upping Paralyze to Stone rank, Sleep to Paralyze rank, and add the Oblivion staff that appeared in Praef's game at Sleep rank?
Also am I gonna have to poll if the Bishop has to use their action to renew Sanctuary? -_-
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 11, 2014, 07:56:04 am
Post by: Xanmyral on May 11, 2014, 11:30:39 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 11, 2014, 11:59:42 am
EDIT: Science is being conducted for the proposed changes to Mountain Warrior
Post by: Xanmyral on May 11, 2014, 12:10:00 pm
What changes were those? I may be the only guy who wants to play one, so I'm watching with interest.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 11, 2014, 12:11:42 pm
Just be careful with the long range equipment then.
Attacks (including staves of any kind) cannot be made on anyone inside the Sanctuary Zone, and units cannot enter it once it is up, though they are free to leave at anytime. So, not really an issue, I think.
EDIT: The boulder thing looked like shit, and MWs never get mountains to actually play on. So we're giving them a variant of Big Swing from the 1.22.
We're currently determining which is more balanced- 5 hit for 1 dam, or 10 hit for 1 dam
We're currently setting the control.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 11, 2014, 12:14:24 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 11, 2014, 12:16:56 pm
Yes, I'm well aware. Can't go in, can't go out, but it can go around/over quite nicely.
That it can. It definitely wouldn't block things behind it.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 11, 2014, 12:21:21 pm
It can range from not that effective to hilariously broken depending on who, where, and how it's used.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 11, 2014, 12:28:40 pm
But it would be far more effective indoors on the whole, yes. Church hax...
Post by: Xanmyral on May 11, 2014, 12:53:23 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 11, 2014, 12:55:49 pm
We're still conducting science to see which variation of the hit penalty is better.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 11, 2014, 01:01:02 pm
Post by: Solymr on May 11, 2014, 01:04:46 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on May 11, 2014, 01:05:39 pm
Post by: Solymr on May 11, 2014, 01:07:53 pm
They get another special anyways.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 11, 2014, 01:10:54 pm
And I saw that edit. :v.
Post by: Solymr on May 11, 2014, 01:12:43 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on May 11, 2014, 01:16:26 pm
Also, mountains appear to only give as much defense as a hill. I figured they gave more honestly.
Post by: Solymr on May 11, 2014, 01:27:11 pm
If they are just glorified hills then yeah, like hills before MW. If they give more after rework then it's 4 before MW and 2 or 3 after.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 11, 2014, 03:14:12 pm
And they get giant swing.
Post by: Solymr on May 11, 2014, 03:26:30 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on May 11, 2014, 04:06:18 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 11, 2014, 04:13:59 pm
Hills already get their penalty removed for bandits :V
Huh, so they don't.
That's... Well, I suppose it isn't too nuts.
Now I feel like Mountain Warriors need a bit more. :-\
Post by: Xanmyral on May 11, 2014, 05:00:02 pm
I consider it good practice to read the class that you're editing before you edit them.
:v
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 11, 2014, 05:04:13 pm
Anyway, let's let Mountain Warriors keep the combat bonuses from being on Mountain Terrain as well.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 11, 2014, 05:09:00 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 11, 2014, 05:12:32 pm
Yeah, it's stated that only flying or units with mountain walk can traverse them. Only the latter actually benefit though.
No no, in their current description, it says If a unit with this ability enters combat while on Mountain or Hill Terrain, they gain a bonus to their Attack Skill and Damage equal to the Defensive Bonus of the terrain.
So give them that for hills and Mountains in addition to the other things. They could really use the AS in particular, they get zero speed from promotion.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 11, 2014, 05:19:47 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 11, 2014, 05:22:40 pm
What I was referring to is that I didn't expect Mountain Walking to remove the extra move cost for traversing hills. Kind of strange.
Anyway, since Bandits do already get that, what do you think of hill/mountain terrain bonuses being applied to MW Dam and AS?
Obviously the whole thing will be put to vote when we get back to promoted classes.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 11, 2014, 05:25:23 pm
All this talking about them is really reminding me of how much I want to play them. Enough that I may put my thief/salesman on hold.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 11, 2014, 05:34:59 pm
I don't think the Eva bonus from the terrain should play into it though. Just the defense (2 from hills and 3 from mountains, I think).
Post by: Xanmyral on May 11, 2014, 05:38:45 pm
I don't really know what to do with them, beyond what's been suggested. Might swing and their bonus on hills/mountain derivatives.
I will miss the boulder though.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 11, 2014, 05:44:31 pm
Something about it as a whole just bothers me. I won't miss it myself.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 11, 2014, 05:55:00 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 11, 2014, 10:33:30 pm
Anyway, I noticed though that Nomad Medics can whip up Vulneraries, Concoctions, and Elixirs in a single round, which seems odd. They already have long range healing that works with hit and run. An NH with a storage could spend an entire battle stocking the characters up on vulneraries, which is just odd.
I think this should be an ability that takes place between chapters, allowing Medics to freely generate 1 vulnerary for free, 1 concoction for 300 gold, or one elixir for 900 gold, which is sort of steep, but not unreasonable since most games have them run at 3000 gold and they return full health.
Also, I was thinking they could also spend 250 gold to make 3 vulneraries between chapters, or 1000 for three concoctions. Only one elixir at a time though. Increased costs leading to greater quantities of medicine produced. If the party chose, this could even be a source of income- provided they have the starting capital.
Thoughts?
Post by: Solymr on May 12, 2014, 04:06:16 am
Post by: Haspen on May 12, 2014, 04:45:10 am
Anyway, I noticed though that Nomad Medics can whip up Vulneraries, Concoctions, and Elixirs in a single round, which seems odd. They already have long range healing that works with hit and run. An NH with a storage could spend an entire battle stocking the characters up on vulneraries, which is just odd.
Good luck making 10 Elixirs in one battle with whatever meagre supply of gold your GM gives you :P
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 12, 2014, 05:50:20 am
Anyway, I noticed though that Nomad Medics can whip up Vulneraries, Concoctions, and Elixirs in a single round, which seems odd. They already have long range healing that works with hit and run. An NH with a storage could spend an entire battle stocking the characters up on vulneraries, which is just odd.
Good luck making 10 Elixirs in one battle with whatever meagre supply of gold your GM gives you :P
The fact that it theoretically could be done overshadows the fact that it's stunningly unlikely.
I think free medicine should at least cost an action in the middle of a dangerous battle :V
It currently does, which is another reason I think it's something that should be handled outside of battle- That way, the NH can contribute their skill without having to give up battle participation.
Spoiler: Class descriptions that I like less the longer I look at them. (click to show/hide)
Post by: Solymr on May 12, 2014, 08:36:19 am
So, say bye bye to Corrosion and Reinforce cause they are GONE. Start talking about what to do with Nullify.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 12, 2014, 08:48:53 am
Anyway. I vote nullify reduces effective damage multiplier to 2 instead of 3.
Post by: Solymr on May 12, 2014, 08:53:43 am
Post by: Haspen on May 12, 2014, 08:54:05 am
I want Nullify to nullify one of the character's weakness type (flying, armored, horseback, etc).
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 12, 2014, 09:04:19 am
Post by: Solymr on May 12, 2014, 09:07:03 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 12, 2014, 09:17:19 am
Making it from 3x to 2x makes it worse for everyone :V
Admittedly it does decrease the effectiveness for mounted units and knights. But for great knights and all the fliers it's far better than 1x against 1 vulnerability, and they're the classes tha that want nullify in the first place.
Post by: Solymr on May 12, 2014, 09:24:22 am
Post by: Haspen on May 12, 2014, 09:29:01 am
But great knights and wyverns are the only ones with two weaknesses are they're built like tanks anyways :x
This v:
Post by: Xanmyral on May 12, 2014, 09:56:29 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 12, 2014, 10:04:22 am
Example: wyver rider takes nullify and chooses wyvern as his exemption type. Thunder magic and anti wyvern type weapons no longer deal bonus damage.
Do I have I t right?
Post by: Haspen on May 12, 2014, 10:07:34 am
Bows, Wind Magic (kinda wonky cuz Wind-resistance bonus), Thunder Magic, Anti-Wyvern.
Pegasus Riders have 3 vulnerabilities:
Bows, Wind Magic, Anti-Pegasus
And finally Great Knights have 2 vulnerabilities:
Horseback, Armored
Nullify lets you nullify one of such vulnerabilities.
Post by: Solymr on May 12, 2014, 10:10:30 am
Bows and Wind are both anti Flying so if you take Nullify vs Flying you don't get effective damage when getting attacked with those weapons.
Wyvern weakness is Thunder and anti Wyvern.
Post by: Haspen on May 12, 2014, 10:12:28 am
Whatchoo talking about :v
Bows and Wind are both anti Flying so if you take Nullify vs Flying you don't get effective damage when getting attacked with those weapons.
Wyvern weakness is Thunder and anti Wyvern.
Hell no.
I can agree that Bows and Wind magic is clumped into 'vs Flying' but no way I will also let them have dual protection from two different things (class skill weakness AND anti-class weakness).
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 12, 2014, 10:14:44 am
Okay. The classes have keywords. Flying, Pegasus, Wyvern, etc. Bows and wind magic state that they're effective vs. Flying, so I think that should come under the same heading.
This allows for discriminatory nullify without being godawful.
Ninja'd.
And again. Really we should just mark the thunder tree as wyvern effective rather than have it be part of the class skill because that's weird anyhow.
Post by: Haspen on May 12, 2014, 10:16:15 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 12, 2014, 10:20:00 am
Thunder tree is already Monster effective.
Wyvern =\= monster.
Post by: Solymr on May 12, 2014, 10:20:39 am
Post by: Culise on May 12, 2014, 10:21:08 am
Post by: Haspen on May 12, 2014, 10:28:48 am
Thunder tree is already Monster effective.
Wyvern =\= monster.
That's what I'm saying. If you want Thunder tomes to be vs Wyvern, then you better take off vs Monsters off the books, or I will veto :v
To be fair, Wyverns kinda got hit hard by the game mechanics merger - in individual games, they're arrow-weak like all fliers and always weak to Wyrmslayers and the like, but they tend to vary on other weaknesses. In one game, they'll be wind-weak; in another, they'll be thunder-weak; in a third, they'll be Manakete-weak, but only if the Manakete has Wyrmslayer; and in a fourth, they won't be particularly affected by any of these, except insofar as their riders tend to have low RES. I don't think any games have them give them all of the weaknesses across the board.
Maybe that's a ringing bell to finally make Wyvern without Wyvern Scales pseudo-weakness-pseudo-strong stuff? I proposed one thing long ago:
Wyvern Rider Scales: +3 DEF vs Swords and Axes*
Wyvern Knight Scales: +3 DEF vs Swords, Axes, and +3 RES vs Fire magic*
*As long as they're mounted
Somehow I don't think many remember.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 12, 2014, 10:39:19 am
I kinda like Haspen's revised rider scales, honestly. Not the knight one though.
Post by: Solymr on May 12, 2014, 10:41:40 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 12, 2014, 10:45:12 am
Why do you want to take monster effectiveness out? >:V
So thunder isn't a weird anti creatyre catch all.
Besides, thunder has fair MT and there are many kinds of monster. Not super fair to get tons of bonus damage against all of them.
Post by: Culise on May 12, 2014, 10:46:14 am
EDIT: Wind, not Fire. >_<
Post by: Haspen on May 12, 2014, 10:47:18 am
Why do you want to take monster effectiveness out? >:V
So thunder isn't a weird anti creatyre catch all.
Besides, thunder has fair MT and there are many kinds of monster. Not super fair to get tons of bonus damage against all of them.
Plus Thunder has innate Crt rates, too.
Post by: Solymr on May 12, 2014, 10:48:50 am
It would make sense to make Holy magics effective vs Undead, Fire vs Monsters, Wind vs Flying and Thunder vs Wyverns.
Post by: Culise on May 12, 2014, 10:50:03 am
I like Solmyr's thoughts quite a bit, too. It also splits up the Monster catch-all into two reasonable categories.
Post by: Haspen on May 12, 2014, 10:58:37 am
With every option properly and carefully described, and the poll closure requiring 15 or more votes.
Post by: Solymr on May 12, 2014, 11:01:03 am
Btw VOTE DAMMIT
We barely get over 12 votes if I leave the poll fermenting for half a week.
Post by: Haspen on May 12, 2014, 11:02:40 am
Post by: Solymr on May 12, 2014, 11:05:35 am
I think we should do Weaknesses (covering part of wyvern special) then Nullify then wyvern classes' specials.
Post by: Haspen on May 12, 2014, 11:07:22 am
Post by: Solymr on May 12, 2014, 11:08:45 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 12, 2014, 11:12:24 am
Post by: Xanmyral on May 12, 2014, 11:18:07 am
Phone. Phone what are you doing, has is a bloody word what is wrong with you.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 12, 2014, 12:02:15 pm
What about Undead :V
It would make sense to make Holy magics effective vs Undead, Fire vs Monsters, Wind vs Flying and Thunder vs Wyverns.
Undead don't have any special features to warrant having an entire weapon category be effective against them.
As for weapon tree effectiveness, here is my take on it.
Wind is Effective against enemies with the flying Keyword.
Bows are also Effective against enemies with the flying Keyword.
Thunder is Effective against enemies with the wyvern Keyword.
Fire is effective against enemies with the undead Keyword.
...and that should be it, I think. I don't think monsters as a whole need a tree that's effective against them.
Post by: Shoruke on May 12, 2014, 07:53:23 pm
But great knights and wyverns are the only ones with two weaknesses are they're built like tanks anyways :xAs someone playing a Pegasus Rider, I just want to let you know that you have some reading to do.
As for the Weaknesses stuff, here's my proposal:
We sort the weaknesses into a few categories: Mounted, Flying, Armored, and Wyvern. Nullify now allows you to remove one of those four weaknesses.
Bows and Wind Magic are effective against Flying.
Thunder Magic is effective against Wyvern.
Soldiers deal effective damage against Mounted.
The poll is "Do you accept Y/N"
I'm okay with making undead weak against holy magic...
If we're going to make monsters weak against Fire Magic, we should specifically exclude Wyverns. They are already weak against so much crap.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 12, 2014, 08:00:13 pm
Soldiers deal effective damage against Mounted.
*FWEEEEEEET*
No. No they don't. Soldiers get a flat damage bonus against Mounted units and
Armored and Mounted have several weapons that state effectiveness against them. That's all they need to have effective against them. That said, Nullify for Mounted units should probably defend them from the anti-cavalry soldier bonus.
Also:
Wyvern =\= monster.
So that is a non issue. Not that all monsters should be weak to fire magic anyway...
As a side note, did anyone read those class descriptions I wrote up? Only Solymr seems to have commented on them...
Post by: Xanmyral on May 12, 2014, 08:17:10 pm
Also, as a random RAI note:
The monster tag already exists, yet for wyverns it is not only not used, but even stated that they are specifically weak to lightning yet no other monster effective weapons.
In rule books, you want to explain things as clearly as you can and with as few words as possible when it comes to rules. Why the unnecessary confusion if it could be dealt with by saying they gain the monster tag?
My main point is consistency.
Also-Also: Those classes are indeed the only with two effective groups, not counting class specific effective weapons.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 12, 2014, 08:22:46 pm
I don't think Wyverns should be treated as monsters. That'd be even more effective tags for them, and they do not need that at all.
Post by: Furtuka on May 12, 2014, 08:25:58 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 12, 2014, 08:28:46 pm
They've already got the dragon category and wyrmslayer yeah.
Wyrmslayer, Dragon Axe, Dragon Lance, whole bunches of other stuff.
I counted them up one time, they had 73 weapons effective against them I think.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 12, 2014, 08:30:14 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 12, 2014, 08:35:17 pm
Page 107, under effective damage in 1.20. I'd quote it but phone. Think that's rather decisive, no?
Hm... It does say that, doesn't it.
But why is thunder magic effective against monsters? I can see the wyverns, sure (Big lizards flying around with nothing to ground them with dudes with heavy armor on their back, not to mention dragons and their relatives are said to have scales reminiscent of metal...), but why monsters? Are they just more conductive? That bugs me.
If any monsters are going to take effective damage, it should be ones with abilities similar to classes that take effective damage (i.e gargoyles have the flying keywords, the centaur things get mounted keyword), and undead which should either be vulnerable to a subset of light magic (Maybe Warding? That stuff is kind of underwhelming) or fire magic (KILL IT WITH FIRE!).
This is going to be a long section to come to consensus on, I can tell. -_-'
Post by: Xanmyral on May 12, 2014, 08:37:55 pm
@BMM: 'Cause reasons. Makes as much sense to me as light magic having effective magic for almost everything.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 12, 2014, 08:39:22 pm
Random note, effective damage in 1.22 got need to x2, just noticed this.
EH.
Blow that, 3x is how it worked before, I see no reason to change it. Effective Weapons are meant to be deadly, not mildly more threatening than normal.
EDIT: The Judgement tree is clearly the cleansing light of heaven manifesting itself through the holy power of the monk class and its promotions! :P
Post by: Xanmyral on May 12, 2014, 08:40:45 pm
Edit: If you want a legitimate guess, probably has something to do with Greek Pantheism and the dismissal of titans.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 12, 2014, 08:43:36 pm
Darnit, my bad phone post got quoted before I could fix it.
It's fine, I edit replied :3
EDIT: I figured it was more an indictment of organized religion's tendency to separate people based on arbitrary values and persecuting those groups that don't fall under their own heading. Though that may be me reading my own values and beliefs into it.
Post by: Furtuka on May 12, 2014, 08:51:32 pm
/jk
Post by: Xanmyral on May 12, 2014, 08:51:54 pm
For the most part, it's magic so I don't normally look too much into it because I know I'll just get hand waving. Why I like Sci fi, you can at least get a semi reasonable answer or amusing technobable. You sometimes get really cool and consistent answers for magic though, like Elder Scrolls Mysticism (or was it alteration?).
Not to say you don't see Sci if with hand waving though, I've just personally not seen as many.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 12, 2014, 09:00:46 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on May 12, 2014, 09:03:06 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on May 12, 2014, 09:06:54 pm
@SC: To be honest, the option presented by Haspen is actually the most forgiving, at least in my view. The skill would almost function the same as the regular one (although chances are the class specific ones would still be free) except for the Great Knight and the Wyvern line.
It's more a question of if you want to make all of them a third weaker against you, or if you want to remove most of them entirely but those few that are left still being deadly.
To put it in clearer terms, there are a few that would want Nullify. Those that are armored, those on horseback, and those that fly. If you look, there's no effectively for a class for horseback and armored. Just those tags. Wyvern and Pegasus have their own tags however, going under both their name and flying (and thunder).
So of all of these, only the great knight and the two flying trees having anything left.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on May 12, 2014, 09:11:27 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 12, 2014, 09:16:17 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on May 12, 2014, 09:17:39 pm
@BMM: Well, what's your argument? I could go either way really, but I see the way I voted as more forgiving.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 12, 2014, 09:21:29 pm
Which I acknowledge isn't really a convincing argument. And I suppose the idea of Nullify is to make the whole thing more forgiving.
Actually, it may be my bias toward the class skill for wyvern knights I designed. Since it'd stack with the multiplier reduction Nullify, and be reduced in usefulness by the avenue elimination Nullify.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on May 12, 2014, 09:29:47 pm
EDIT: Actually it would be more like: 'Does X have Nullify? Does it Nullify this type of damage? If so, 1x damage. If not, 3x damage' so it's actually easier to check than I said. :X
Post by: Xanmyral on May 12, 2014, 09:35:27 pm
Reducing the multiplier doesn't strike me as great as having the chance to nullify a counter, or strike twice, or regain health passively. That's my view on it.
@SC: I admit that, yes, but probably not anymore bookkeeping as personal skills. But I admit some bias there, neither strike me as hard to remember. So less bookkeeping is a good reason.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 13, 2014, 09:45:28 am
Post by: Solymr on May 13, 2014, 10:55:59 am
Wind and Bows vs Flying, Thunder vs Wyvern, Fire vs Undead.
Wind and Bows vs Flying, Thunder vs Wyvern, Fire vs Monsters, Holy vs Undead.
Anything else?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 13, 2014, 11:01:28 am
Not every category of Anima needs to be effective against something. And I feel like Warding is underwhelming right now, so that's a good boost.
I don't think Monsters as a whole need a vulnerability.
Post by: Shoruke on May 13, 2014, 11:20:13 am
Okay, yup. My bad, I misspoke. Soldiers get bonuses against Mounted units.Soldiers deal effective damage against Mounted.*FWEEEEEEET*
No. No they don't.
And why do all monsters have to have the same vulnerability? You could just include a specific weakness in the description for certain monsters, so that gargoyles are weak against wind magic, centaurs are treated as Mounted, skeletons are weak against holy, and spiders aren't weak against anything (or maybe weak to fire).
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 13, 2014, 11:37:42 am
Okay, yup. My bad, I misspoke. Soldiers get bonuses against Mounted units.Soldiers deal effective damage against Mounted.*FWEEEEEEET*
No. No they don't.
And why do all monsters have to have the same vulnerability? You could just include a specific weakness in the description for certain monsters, so that gargoyles are weak against wind magic, centaurs are treated as Mounted, skeletons are weak against holy, and spiders aren't weak against anything (or maybe weak to fire).
That's pretty close in line with what I was thinking, yeah.
Post by: Solymr on May 13, 2014, 01:45:06 pm
I don't even know if there are enough people following this.
Post by: darkpaladin109 on May 13, 2014, 01:46:00 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 13, 2014, 01:47:25 pm
Casual reminder that the poll won't end until we get at least 15 total votes.
I don't even know if there are enough people following this.
Why are we setting an arbitrary vote limit?
Especially one so high? We generally get 10-12 votes total.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 13, 2014, 01:58:48 pm
Post by: Solymr on May 14, 2014, 02:48:46 pm
How about making druidic effective (triple MT) vs their specified weapon and deal half (total) damage vs the others, and making warding so the wielder takes only half damage from specified weapons?
Post by: Xanmyral on May 14, 2014, 03:20:24 pm
Anyho, so you want druid magic to be effective against what it trumps but only deal half total damage against everything else? Plausible, I suppose. As for warding, just halving the total damage once then?
Also, since I'm tired of asking this question all the friggin' time when it comes up, let's settle this: is this an optimistic or pessimistic system? I.E., does it round up or down?
Post by: Solymr on May 14, 2014, 03:35:23 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 14, 2014, 05:01:48 pm
Post by: Squeegy on May 15, 2014, 12:44:33 am
Post by: Xanmyral on May 15, 2014, 02:39:58 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 15, 2014, 08:28:18 am
Post by: darkpaladin109 on May 15, 2014, 08:33:17 am
Post by: Solymr on May 15, 2014, 08:46:44 am
So, what do you think of my idea for druidic/warding magic?
Post by: darkpaladin109 on May 15, 2014, 08:48:13 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 15, 2014, 08:56:09 am
FEF2
NEF2
NEF2-2 (That is a weird numbering system, I tell you hwhat)
FEF NoH
FEF GoR
FEF TDG
FEF SH
and upcoming games from Solymr and others.
EDIT: And honestly, most of the people with an interest in this game are here because they saw Fire Emblem and spazzed out with glee (Except Xanmyral, I think he mentioned never having played FE before). We should keep getting the occasional new recruit even with our own properly labeled subboard.
Also, if we do get our own sub-board, first thing I'm doing is making a directory for it.
Post by: Squeegy on May 15, 2014, 09:10:12 am
Post by: Xanmyral on May 15, 2014, 02:25:36 pm
Nothing says it can't just be rescinded though I suppose. I'm kinda with BMW here. It's something to seriously consider, but at the moment we're still at the threshold than over it.
Also, I joined 'cause tactical RPG. Never finished a FE game.
Post by: darkpaladin109 on May 15, 2014, 02:55:43 pm
However, all of this can wait until we clarify this discussion.
Also
I'm kinda with BMW here.don'cha mean BMM? :P
Post by: Xanmyral on May 15, 2014, 02:58:26 pm
/me shakes his fist at the sky as ominous thunder peals from the horizon.
On one hand, I want to turn auto correct off. On the other hand it makes general typing much easier.
Post by: Shoruke on May 15, 2014, 04:24:32 pm
On the other hand if he has to sign something in triplicate, pay a $30 handling fee, wait 4-6 months for approval, juggle while riding a unicycle, and pay an extra $5 per month for extra server upkeep, maybe we should take it easy on the poor guy.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 15, 2014, 04:25:51 pm
Post by: Squeegy on May 15, 2014, 06:21:33 pm
Post by: birdy51 on May 15, 2014, 07:03:38 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 15, 2014, 07:17:48 pm
Spoiler: List of active FEF threads. Plus FEF2, since that's coming back. (click to show/hide)
Post by: birdy51 on May 15, 2014, 08:14:12 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 15, 2014, 08:27:09 pm
...And we have new ones on the way...
Post by: Furtuka on May 15, 2014, 08:30:01 pm
Phew. 20 Threads... We could blot out the front page if we all posted simultaneously. O.o
It happened once before. adwarf's reaction was hilarious XD
Post by: Xanmyral on May 15, 2014, 09:50:30 pm
Post by: Furtuka on May 15, 2014, 09:51:11 pm
Post by: Squeegy on May 16, 2014, 12:00:18 am
Post by: RangerCado on May 16, 2014, 12:02:04 am
Post by: Shoruke on May 16, 2014, 12:57:45 am
You lot might want to consider that you have a problem.People who play Dwarf Fortress have a problem... because they play Fire Emblem.
Methinks ye spoke rashly.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 16, 2014, 01:14:16 am
Tone's hard to convey on the net and all that jazz. Scattin', if'n yah wanna get all technical.
Post by: Shoruke on May 16, 2014, 02:46:57 am
Tone's hard to convey on the net and all that jazz.Yeah. I was trying to be tongue-in-cheek with my comment too. I think I did it wrong though.
Post by: Solymr on May 16, 2014, 09:03:12 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 16, 2014, 10:07:51 am
EDIT: Also, I had a thought on the gulf between characters who start as trainees vs. those who start as first class. There's always a huge difference and it makes it really hard to catch up, especially since enemies that show up for characters who join at first class tend to be a few levels higher to compensate for trainee strength.
One way I figured to combat this would be to give Trainees 300 Progression to start, instead of 330. Then, when they promote to first class, they get that last 30. Thoughts?
Post by: Haspen on May 16, 2014, 10:45:14 am
And let's not forget that (at the moment) if you start as Trainee you get extra 5% Progression from class change to First Class :v!
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 16, 2014, 10:47:58 am
Trainee Progression sounds nice.
And let's not forget that (at the moment) if you start as Trainee you get extra 5% Progression from class change to First Class :v!
Yeah, it ends up being a real slap in the face for people who have to wait to join up and wind up with lower stats and progression.
Post by: darkpaladin109 on May 16, 2014, 11:03:18 am
Post by: Solymr on May 16, 2014, 11:40:47 am
But yeah I approve this.
Post by: Squeegy on May 16, 2014, 11:45:56 am
Post by: Solymr on May 16, 2014, 11:47:37 am
Are you interested in FEF after all? :D
Post by: Squeegy on May 16, 2014, 12:00:10 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on May 16, 2014, 01:48:23 pm
Granted, most veterans keep an eye out and are happy to assist either with mug making and sheet checking.
Enough of the pitch though, thanks for bringing the problem to our attention about how many threads we got. Didn't think we actually had that many; I don't think any of us want to be a bother to the FG&RP section.
Post by: Solymr on May 16, 2014, 03:57:12 pm
Post by: RangerCado on May 16, 2014, 03:58:21 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 16, 2014, 04:01:00 pm
Post by: birdy51 on May 16, 2014, 04:01:56 pm
Post by: RangerCado on May 16, 2014, 04:02:23 pm
((Will stop now. XD))
Post by: Furtuka on May 16, 2014, 04:42:07 pm
Post by: birdy51 on May 16, 2014, 05:31:36 pm
Spoiler: Laguz (click to show/hide)
Post by: RangerCado on May 16, 2014, 06:08:59 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 16, 2014, 07:02:28 pm
Post by: Squeegy on May 16, 2014, 07:30:18 pm
Understandable (the commitment part), if you feel you can shoulder another game, feel free to try out an NEF. They're purposely short and for new players to get a taste of the system, done with a veteran to help show people the ropes.It's a mutually beneficial arrangement, because we can fit like 5 more threads on the first page, and you get a special forum. Everyone gets more attention.
Granted, most veterans keep an eye out and are happy to assist either with mug making and sheet checking.
Enough of the pitch though, thanks for bringing the problem to our attention about how many threads we got. Didn't think we actually had that many; I don't think any of us want to be a bother to the FG&RP section.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 16, 2014, 07:36:55 pm
Post by: RangerCado on May 16, 2014, 09:20:12 pm
Post by: Furtuka on May 16, 2014, 09:24:19 pm
Post by: RangerCado on May 16, 2014, 09:25:15 pm
Post by: Shoruke on May 16, 2014, 10:08:42 pm
1) "NO!" loses
2) therefore the answer is "yes"
Post by: Squeegy on May 16, 2014, 10:18:51 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 16, 2014, 10:19:07 pm
Post by: Swordstar on May 16, 2014, 10:21:29 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 16, 2014, 10:22:55 pm
...We could open it to general vote. Change the current topic to Subforum, and make the options yes, no, and don't care.Spoiler: List of active FEF threads. Plus FEF2, since that's coming back. (click to show/hide)
Awright, there's the list again, someone get ahold of Toady.
Post by: Furtuka on May 16, 2014, 10:39:12 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 16, 2014, 10:39:57 pm
Do you think we should put the deader games in the list just for the sake of record keeping?
If you want to track them down and stick them in, be my guest.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 16, 2014, 10:42:15 pm
Post by: Furtuka on May 16, 2014, 10:45:55 pm
Do you think we should put the deader games in the list just for the sake of record keeping?
If you want to track them down and stick them in, be my guest.
Alright! *salutes*
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 16, 2014, 10:47:46 pm
Spoiler: Ta-da! (click to show/hide)
Good, now it's all in one post.
Edit: Final count of 3
Post by: Sirus on May 16, 2014, 11:07:48 pm
Post by: Furtuka on May 16, 2014, 11:11:02 pm
Post by: Sirus on May 16, 2014, 11:12:53 pm
Well it we're gonna go that far back... (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=100479.msg2973458#msg2973458)Holy fuck I never even knew about that one O_o
Anyway, I still don't see a need for a sub-board. I'm guessing there are far more D&D games here in FG&RP and no-one's ever considered a sub-board for that.
Post by: Furtuka on May 16, 2014, 11:13:57 pm
Post by: Furtuka on May 16, 2014, 11:15:42 pm
Hi! I saw that you were to one who introduced the rulebook to Bay12 was just wondering if you would be willing to tell me where the Fire Emblem the Further Journeys book came from? And who made it and if it is still being developed?Oh... I believe it's Cecil.
It's a question that's been digging at my mind for a while now, and with how there's been a lot of discussion about potential modifications and house rules in the FEF threads lately I figured it would be a good time to ask.I've haven't actually been in contact with him for such a long time.No wait, I actually just played League with him. I'll ask him the next time we play.
Hey just checking in if you're still able to contact him since its been a while since the last message. Sorry for the trouble.
I was. He thinks is cool and will integrate some changes (I think). I want him to post, but I'm honestly too busy to check.
Post by: Sirus on May 16, 2014, 11:18:41 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 16, 2014, 11:19:43 pm
DOUBLE POST BECAUSE IMPORTANT PM JUST ARRIVEDHi! I saw that you were to one who introduced the rulebook to Bay12 was just wondering if you would be willing to tell me where the Fire Emblem the Further Journeys book came from? And who made it and if it is still being developed?Oh... I believe it's Cecil.
It's a question that's been digging at my mind for a while now, and with how there's been a lot of discussion about potential modifications and house rules in the FEF threads lately I figured it would be a good time to ask.I've haven't actually been in contact with him for such a long time.No wait, I actually just played League with him. I'll ask him the next time we play.
Hey just checking in if you're still able to contact him since its been a while since the last message. Sorry for the trouble.
I was. He thinks is cool and will integrate some changes (I think). I want him to post, but I'm honestly too busy to check.
What
WHATWHATWHATWHAT
OH MY GOD. THE CREATOR OF THE ORIGINAL BOOK IS IN CONTACT? OH MY SHIT.
Post by: Squeegy on May 16, 2014, 11:35:15 pm
Well it we're gonna go that far back... (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=100479.msg2973458#msg2973458)Holy fuck I never even knew about that one O_o
Anyway, I still don't see a need for a sub-board. I'm guessing there are far more D&D games here in FG&RP and no-one's ever considered a sub-board for that.
Yeah, I highly doubt that. Count them if you want. I seriously doubt that the remotely active ones outnumber 33 (35?). You have enough threads to fill at least two pages.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 16, 2014, 11:36:27 pm
But I cast my vote for don't care, so if we get a sub-forum, we get a subforum.
Post by: Sirus on May 16, 2014, 11:38:29 pm
What Blade said. Maybe half of those 33 threads are active at all, the rest are, just like the majority of the D&D games, dead or simply inactive.Well it we're gonna go that far back... (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=100479.msg2973458#msg2973458)Holy fuck I never even knew about that one O_o
Anyway, I still don't see a need for a sub-board. I'm guessing there are far more D&D games here in FG&RP and no-one's ever considered a sub-board for that.
Yeah, I highly doubt that. Count them if you want. I seriously doubt that the remotely active ones outnumber 33 (35?). You have enough threads to fill at least two pages.
Voted for Don't Care, because while I don't see the need for a sub-board I'm not going to be very perturbed if it happens.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 17, 2014, 03:09:45 am
Post by: Haspen on May 17, 2014, 03:15:02 am
-le gasp-
What
WHATWHATWHATWHAT
OH MY GOD. THE CREATOR OF THE ORIGINAL BOOK IS IN CONTACT? OH MY SHIT.
Wow he actually exists. Craaazy!
If he will post in this thread I will feel strange. Dunno, like a Greek peasant meeting a minor god/demi-god on the way to the market v:
I feel bad about distracting Toady from his coding. Specially with the release literally looming.
To be honest, it's basically matter of 'get to administration -> create sub-forum -> fill description -> done', can't be more than 15 minutes.
Then again in 15 minutes Toady might squish ten bugs or something, dunno I'm not Architect of Matrix v:
Post by: darkpaladin109 on May 17, 2014, 03:31:12 am
Post by: Shoruke on May 17, 2014, 11:51:26 am
Post by: Squeegy on May 17, 2014, 12:03:15 pm
To be honest, it's basically matter of 'get to administration -> create sub-forum -> fill description -> done', can't be more than 15 minutes.I timed myself doing the same exercise, with 35 threads, on my own SMF board. It took me almost exactly 5 minutes and 38 seconds, starting from opening the PM, to individually moving each thread into the new subforum. It will probably take him a similar amount of time to do the actual work on his end.
Then again in 15 minutes Toady might squish ten bugs or something, dunno I'm not Architect of Matrix v:As a programmer... no. No he would not. It probably takes longer to go over all the moderation reports.
So how about... we wait until like three days after the next DF release (to let the post-release mail spam die down just a bit) and then put in our request for a subforum?I think he can get it done long before never if you ask him soon.
Post by: Sirus on May 17, 2014, 12:24:31 pm
Post by: Furtuka on May 17, 2014, 12:57:30 pm
Post by: Gamerboy4life on May 17, 2014, 01:02:31 pm
How long is it going to last? We might have a tonne of threads for it, but who knows if the game as a whole will start to die down in the next year or so, (or even sooner, god forbid,) and then we're left with an empty, inactive subforum?
I don't know if anyone really considered longevity to be a factor.
Post by: Furtuka on May 17, 2014, 01:06:49 pm
Post by: Squeegy on May 17, 2014, 01:07:22 pm
You know, I see a problem with having a separate forum for FEF.
How long is it going to last? We might have a tonne of threads for it, but who knows if the game as a whole will start to die down in the next year or so, (or even sooner, god forbid,) and then we're left with an empty, inactive subforum?
I don't know if anyone really considered longevity to be a factor.
Such a hypothetical is impossible to judge. The threads are on the rise right now. Einsteinian Roulette might die down some day too, but that didn't stop them.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 17, 2014, 01:45:04 pm
Post by: Squeegy on May 17, 2014, 02:03:06 pm
Well in any case, the results of the poll seem fairly clear. Squeegy, if you'd like to contact Toady One about the new sub-forum...
Oh ho, I'm the representative? Very well. I accept that responsibility.
e: Sent.
Post by: Sirus on May 17, 2014, 03:36:46 pm
Post by: Haspen on May 17, 2014, 03:44:12 pm
Perhaps I'm missing something, but why the fuck are we leaving this to someone who's single contribution to FEF is to whinge about how popular FEF is? Instead of, you know, someone who actually gives two fucks about it?
Toady's PM box is open to everyone. Go on Sirus :3!
Post by: Sirus on May 17, 2014, 03:49:33 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on May 17, 2014, 03:53:01 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 17, 2014, 03:58:37 pm
Besides, Squeeg was the one vocal enough to push for it, and he hadn't been rude about it. I figured it'd be fine.
Post by: Squeegy on May 17, 2014, 06:42:15 pm
Post by: darkpaladin109 on May 17, 2014, 06:43:18 pm
Sirus, on the other hand, is being increasingly rude. I thought you didn't care, dude?He had a really bad day. He posted about that in the Rage thread.
Post by: Sirus on May 17, 2014, 06:48:41 pm
Had?Sirus, on the other hand, is being increasingly rude. I thought you didn't care, dude?He had a really bad day. He posted about that in the Rage thread.
Post by: Squeegy on May 17, 2014, 07:18:33 pm
I don't read the Rage thread, so uwuSirus, on the other hand, is being increasingly rude. I thought you didn't care, dude?He had a really bad day. He posted about that in the Rage thread.
Post by: Shoruke on May 17, 2014, 07:22:08 pm
Isn't a Troubadour's Physical Training skill a bit much? They're supposed to be healers. Giving them a weapon is fine with me, but Rank C in a specific subcategory? To put this in perspective, that makes them just as good with weapons as any frontliner class.
-Fencers get Rank D with swords, rank C in one subcategory.
-Pegasus Knights get Rank D with lances, rank C in one subcategory.
-Bandits get Rank D in Axes, rank C blah blah blah you get it.
-Archers too.
Troubadours are also the only First Class that can use axes while mounted, and they can use them like Bandits with less STR, but more SKL and SPD. And also they're healers. And also they move farther. And if a horse would get in their way, they can dismount and just be lightweight pirates.
Shouldn't Troubadours just get rank D in one weapon and not be able to specialize? Or get rank D in one subcategory and Rank E in the others because they're a bit busy training with magic to be cavaliers as well?
Also, one of their preferred stats is apparently "Spreed".
Post by: Swordstar on May 17, 2014, 07:27:56 pm
I'm not sure what being able to use axes while mounted has to do with anything? Axes still weigh a ton and so unless they're dedicating points to con, that's going to slow them down a ton.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 17, 2014, 07:33:26 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 17, 2014, 09:35:22 pm
@Sho: They're suppose to only have a D in a weapon skill, like every other class that gets two different weapon trees as a first class. It's in the book. It's presented as it is because the chosen weapon proficiency is suppose to be immutable and unable to change.
No no no, the Troubadour actually does get a C in proficiency with staves, as well as a weapon.
Where the Priest has Self-Healing and the Cavalier has Reliable Attack, The Troubadour has Physical Training, which is what gives them a focused second weapon tree. That's not an error, it's a class feature.
I figured that out on my own back when we were finishing up First Classes.
Post by: Swordstar on May 17, 2014, 09:38:22 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on May 17, 2014, 10:10:24 pm
Post by: Solymr on May 18, 2014, 01:56:07 pm
Meanwhile we can try to come up with something for wyvern knights. Since nullify is still strong the effective damage reduction isn't really worth and I forgot the idea we were discussing on irc bring something here :v
Post by: Squeegy on May 18, 2014, 01:56:58 pm
Post by: Swordstar on May 18, 2014, 01:59:17 pm
Meanwhile we can try to come up with something for wyvern knights. Since nullify is still strong the effective damage reduction isn't really worth and I forgot the idea we were discussing on irc bring something here :v
Opposite of Samurai, for every 10 HP they have, +1 AS/+2 Damage
Post by: Rolepgeek on May 18, 2014, 03:07:39 pm
Meanwhile we can try to come up with something for wyvern knights. Since nullify is still strong the effective damage reduction isn't really worth and I forgot the idea we were discussing on irc bring something here :v
Opposite of Samurai, for every 10 HP they have, +1 AS/+2 Damage
No, too powerful. Samurai have a risk that goes along with it, have to work to get there. Wyvern Knights will get the same bonus without the same downsides, whilst being able to fly. Not fair.
Post by: Haspen on May 18, 2014, 03:12:20 pm
%SKL to completely bypass target's DEF. Black Magic has Luna so why Wyvern Knights shouldn't be able to have something similar? :P
Post by: Swordstar on May 18, 2014, 03:12:43 pm
Post by: Solymr on May 18, 2014, 03:16:04 pm
Post by: Haspen on May 18, 2014, 03:26:17 pm
Haspen, Pierce was the suggested new passive for wyvern hunters :V
I remember suggesting it for Wyvern Knights cuz Wyvern Hunters had a bonus against horseback/pegasi/wyverns? v:
Post by: Xanmyral on May 18, 2014, 03:41:00 pm
Post by: Sirus on May 18, 2014, 04:34:31 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 18, 2014, 04:52:04 pm
Post by: scapheap on May 18, 2014, 04:53:39 pm
Too friendly? :-[
Post by: Squeegy on May 18, 2014, 05:29:18 pm
Post by: Sirus on May 18, 2014, 05:30:38 pm
Hey guys, did you know ToadyOne made a new subforum (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=21.0) for arranging D&D games quite a while ago?Except that's mostly for playing other video games. I think I played a single D&D game in that subforum, every other one was right here in FG&RP.
Post by: Squeegy on May 18, 2014, 07:03:08 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 18, 2014, 07:04:25 pm
Toady One says that he is somewhat hesitant to have a subforum named after a Nintendo IP. What's your response?
...Who has a shrug emote?
Post by: Sirus on May 18, 2014, 07:05:11 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 18, 2014, 07:05:45 pm
-v(O_o)v-
Thank you Sirus.
Post by: Swordstar on May 18, 2014, 07:05:48 pm
Could also call it FEF so that it's being called what we recognize it without directly stating it's Fire Emblem.
Post by: Sirus on May 18, 2014, 07:06:30 pm
Post by: Swordstar on May 18, 2014, 07:07:27 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 18, 2014, 07:08:16 pm
What Blade said.
Could also call it FEF so that it's being called what we recognize it without directly stating it's Fire Emblem.
But, the problem there is new members aren't going to understand, so say goodbye to new blood trickling in.
I can see why he'd be hesitant though. We do NOT want some lawyers coming in to shut the forum down.
Well, Toady doesn't charge for anything on the site, so I don't think there'd be any problems. But I'm not a lawyer.
Post by: birdy51 on May 18, 2014, 07:23:06 pm
The issue of legality is not the problem here. If Toady feels worried about it, then I consider that portion of the conversation null and void. However, if it's just a naming issue then perhaps calling the new forum something different would suffice... But I don't have any good ideas right now that capture and maintain what FEF is that would designate it as *our* board.
Post by: IronyOwl on May 18, 2014, 07:32:48 pm
Alternatively some kind of "established rules" board or something, but that's a lot more arbitrary and pointless. Grid/map based combat/RPGs?
Maybe we need to go back to basics. Why was it some of us wanted a new subforum again? "There's kind of a lot of them" and "it might attract more interest" were the only things I heard. I guess setting some arbitrary limit to the number of games using the same or essentially same system before they get shunted/are officially stated to belong in there might work.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 18, 2014, 07:56:23 pm
And I think trying to pull all other threads in this board that're also based on tabletop systems would cause more problems than it could ever hope to solve. So I think it's fairly clear this won't be happening at this point.
Does this mean we can get back to work on the system?
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on May 18, 2014, 07:57:36 pm
Post by: Swordstar on May 18, 2014, 07:58:33 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 18, 2014, 08:00:47 pm
Under this idea, Trainees would start with 300 progression instead of 330, and would get 30 on promoting to first class. This'll go some way to making Trainees less irritatingly superior to characters who join games as First class units, who lose out on 5 progression and a bunch of levels.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on May 18, 2014, 08:05:29 pm
Post by: IronyOwl on May 18, 2014, 08:07:05 pm
I say all characters should just get trainee levels rolled and such anyway, but that's just me.This would probably be the simple, satisfying way to do it. You'd typically just roll for levels as normal if somebody needed to join above level one, right? Why do it differently for class promotion barriers?
Post by: Swordstar on May 18, 2014, 08:07:54 pm
I say all characters should just get trainee levels rolled and such anyway, but that's just me. Less complicated, although it does mean a bit more rolling (but that can all be done at once when the character joins, so it's a little easier to manage).
That's what I'm planning on doing.
Post by: Sirus on May 18, 2014, 08:10:05 pm
This makes perfect sense to me. No punishing players who join late, nor making trainees even weaker than they already are.I say all characters should just get trainee levels rolled and such anyway, but that's just me.This would probably be the simple, satisfying way to do it. You'd typically just roll for levels as normal if somebody needed to join above level one, right? Why do it differently for class promotion barriers?
Post by: Xanmyral on May 18, 2014, 08:10:34 pm
I think I heard that around the Bethesda vs. Notch thing.
Post by: Shoruke on May 19, 2014, 12:13:01 am
On the other hand, lawyers and their shenanigans. Stay far away from lawyers and their shenanigans.
I don't suppose we could just, like... ask the Nintendo America guys, "Hey, do you give a crap?"
Post by: Sirus on May 19, 2014, 12:16:47 am
Post by: Solymr on May 19, 2014, 01:43:47 am
Post by: darkpaladin109 on May 19, 2014, 07:00:52 am
Serenes Forest has every name of every Fire Emblem game all over its forums and nothing really happened, but if its the case how about Strategy Play By Post?hmm, yeah, I'd like to just be FEF or something too, but I suppose it's better to be safe than sorry. The name suggestion I approve of, though.
Post by: Solymr on May 19, 2014, 07:05:56 am
How about we name it The Further Journeys, like in the handbook?
Post by: darkpaladin109 on May 19, 2014, 07:09:11 am
:OI like that idea, since it keeps some further connection to FEF.
How about we name it The Further Journeys, like in the handbook?
Post by: Solymr on May 19, 2014, 07:19:24 am
Why am I so voluble :v
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 19, 2014, 07:38:39 am
Post by: Solymr on May 19, 2014, 07:44:30 am
Post by: Squeegy on May 19, 2014, 08:37:56 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 19, 2014, 08:42:34 am
And it doesn't really matter that it's called Fire Emblem because the bulk of the attention you get won't be because it's a Fire Emblem subforum, but because there's a new subforum at all.
That's great and all, but the majority of people who are going to stick around and add to the player base are going to be fans of Fire Emblem. And once the shiny new sub-forum factor wears off, where are we?
Post by: Squeegy on May 19, 2014, 08:44:29 am
Post by: Solymr on May 19, 2014, 08:45:21 am
The last post stuff at the right of the page will always show up something Fire Emblem so people who are interested in Fire Emblem see that and click it.
I have no problem naming the forum FEF Games.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 19, 2014, 08:48:07 am
Still at the top of the page where everyone sees you before any of the games on FGRP?
But what they see is apparently going to be FEF sub-board, or The Further Journeys sub-board.
I know I'd never been in the RTD sub-board until recently because I just didn't care. Still haven't looked at Einsteinian Roulette either, and I don't give them so much as a second glance when I mess around in the FGRP board.
EDIT: Oh, apparently we have a Mafia sub-board also. I thought I remembered that second link being Einsteinian Roulette. Well.
Maybe when they get inside the forum and see every thread with Fire Emblem on it? :V
The last post stuff at the right of the page will always show up something Fire Emblem so people who are interested in Fire Emblem see that and click it.
I have no problem naming the forum FEF Games.
Well, I now actively dislike the idea since we can't have Fire Emblem as the sub-forum name. So that's where I stand.
Post by: Furtuka on May 19, 2014, 09:22:55 am
Post by: Squeegy on May 19, 2014, 09:26:15 am
Post by: darkpaladin109 on May 19, 2014, 09:29:31 am
Post by: Solymr on May 19, 2014, 09:48:45 am
http://forums.feplanet.net/index.php
http://serenesforest.net/forums/
Post by: Culise on May 19, 2014, 12:40:38 pm
Post by: Furtuka on May 19, 2014, 03:53:39 pm
Quote
[15:25] Hatkitty Name: Further Journeys | Description: Series of forum games based on Fire Emblem tactical series
^Haspen has good idea.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 19, 2014, 03:56:56 pm
Quote[15:25] Hatkitty Name: Further Journeys | Description: Series of forum games based on Fire Emblem tactical series
^Haspen has good idea.
The apparent problem of having Fire Emblem mentioned officially in the website remains. But I'd be fine with that.
Post by: IronyOwl on May 19, 2014, 04:00:31 pm
This seems kind of like combining the problems of both- you don't explicitly put Fire Emblem in the title, but then you still put it right next to it where it's a potentially awkward IP issue.Quote[15:25] Hatkitty Name: Further Journeys | Description: Series of forum games based on Fire Emblem tactical series
^Haspen has good idea.
The apparent problem of having Fire Emblem mentioned officially in the website remains. But I'd be fine with that.
Post by: Haspen on May 19, 2014, 04:03:08 pm
Post by: IronyOwl on May 19, 2014, 04:04:13 pm
Then there shall be no subforum, easy! v:Well, that'd be my vote. :x
Post by: Swordstar on May 19, 2014, 04:08:47 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on May 19, 2014, 04:11:04 pm
Post by: birdy51 on May 19, 2014, 04:13:36 pm
Post by: Shoruke on May 19, 2014, 04:16:11 pm
the majority of us don't actually seem to care that much about getting a subforum anyways,You keep using that word. It does not mean what you think it means.
It means, "more than half of the population under consideration." We have 16 votes for yes, and a total of 11 votes for things that are not yes. The majority, in fact, voted that yes, we should have a new subforum.
The biggest reason against it so far is that there might be a legal issue. Other fora have provably shown that said legal issue is not likely to actually come up.
We should have a new subforum. And I'd say Haspen's suggestion there is the right way to do it.
Post by: Haspen on May 19, 2014, 04:20:44 pm
Other fora have provably shown that said legal issue is not likely to actually come up.
However other forums aren't part of a indie game developer's forum who does have to be concerned about legal issues :P
Post by: Squeegy on May 19, 2014, 04:23:42 pm
Post by: Swordstar on May 19, 2014, 04:24:57 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on May 19, 2014, 04:25:59 pm
Post by: IronyOwl on May 19, 2014, 04:29:12 pm
Also, let's get down to brass tacks. Toady doesn't want to do it, and his vote is the only one that matters. So there's no point in continuing to pursue the issue.I don't think that's quite the case. Squeegy said he was "hesitant" or similar, not that he outright didn't want to.
The bigger issue, I think, is that the poll and the discussion don't line up. The poll clearly indicates favor or indifference for a subforum. The discussion tends to lean fairly heavily towards indifference or opposition. I'm not sure what that means, exactly, but it's kind of concerning when our two data points don't match.
Post by: Furtuka on May 19, 2014, 04:30:07 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 19, 2014, 04:33:00 pm
Poll is the FG&RP board community at large, discussion is mostly made up of us FEF players.
That's pretty much what seems to be going on.
Post by: Squeegy on May 19, 2014, 04:43:43 pm
Post by: IronyOwl on May 19, 2014, 04:50:39 pm
And honestly, if the majority of the FEF players voted no or don't care, then two of them voted no, most voted don't care, and a significant portion of the FGRP subforum popped in to say they would like you all to get a room.Or that they approve of them getting their own place if they want their own place.
A more detailed poll might have been more informative.
Post by: Squeegy on May 19, 2014, 04:54:26 pm
Post by: Haspen on May 19, 2014, 05:00:38 pm
This is true, but in terms of the community at large favoring a new subforum (and you must acknowledge that you're part of a larger community as long as you remain here), it seems pretty clear cut.
You say community, huh? Fine then, find me 5 people - non FEF-players - besides you who want us to have a subforum, and point me to their posts in this thread v:
After all this is a large community, so it doesn't need a mediator like you! They can speak for themselves :3
Post by: Squeegy on May 19, 2014, 05:08:29 pm
I'm not a mediator. I just chose to bring up the issue. It is not my job to make people express their own opinions. I'm expressing mine and frankly that's all that matters to me. Votes are votes. I'm not sure if you're trying to imply I falsified the poll, but if so, easy on. All anybody wants here is to create an arrangement that is mutually beneficial both for you and your turn based strategy games and for the forum and the other games within it.This is true, but in terms of the community at large favoring a new subforum (and you must acknowledge that you're part of a larger community as long as you remain here), it seems pretty clear cut.
You say community, huh? Fine then, find me 5 people - non FEF-players - besides you who want us to have a subforum, and point me to their posts in this thread v:
After all this is a large community, so it doesn't need a mediator like you! They can speak for themselves :3
Speaking of which, I'm not sure that "not having the Fire Emblem name would discourage new players" is necessarily accurate. From my own anecdotal experience, I avoided these threads at first because I wasn't particularly interested in Fire Emblem and had never played it before. Having a more neutral name might actually be less likely to turn away potential players right off the bat.
Post by: Haspen on May 19, 2014, 05:12:45 pm
And the current voters' number could be very well easily the current FEF player-and-GM-base, plus one vote from you.
However if you do wish to help us with the sub-forum, do find us a name (and a description) that fulfills the current conditions:
A) Isn't 'Fire Emblem' so Toady wouldn't have to have second thoughts about legal issues,
B) Relates to 'Fire Emblem' enough for people to get the idea of what kind of games the sub-forum is for,
C) Doesn't sound utterly horrible and detached from Fire Emblem franchise.
Post by: Squeegy on May 19, 2014, 05:16:01 pm
Also, the condescension isn't warranted (or very mature).
Post by: Furtuka on May 19, 2014, 05:23:20 pm
Post by: Swordstar on May 19, 2014, 05:40:25 pm
Post by: freeformschooler on May 19, 2014, 06:00:11 pm
Post by: Sirus on May 19, 2014, 06:03:41 pm
One nice thing about having our own subforum is we could have our own stickies. I would not mind a sticky with suggested game mechanics, rule interpretations, tilemap tutorials, and FAQ.This is the most sensible argument in favor I've seen yet.
Post by: Furtuka on May 19, 2014, 06:04:16 pm
Post by: Squeegy on May 19, 2014, 06:06:14 pm
One nice thing about having our own subforum is we could have our own stickies. I would not mind a sticky with suggested game mechanics, rule interpretations, tilemap tutorials, and FAQ.This is the most sensible argument in favor I've seen yet.
And it was made seven pages ago, too!
I dun care too much. Having it would be nice, since there's at least 2 FEF's incoming and it would allow us to add things like guides for first time GM's or players.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 19, 2014, 06:08:12 pm
But the issue is in Toady's hands now. Not sure why we have to continue to divert attention from the thread's purpose.
Post by: Squeegy on May 19, 2014, 06:10:24 pm
Post by: Swordstar on May 19, 2014, 06:12:22 pm
Speaking of, did we ever settle on a thing for Wyvern Knights?
Post by: IronyOwl on May 19, 2014, 06:13:16 pm
But the issue is in Toady's hands now. Not sure why we have to continue to divert attention from the thread's purpose.
Us continuing to talk about it doesn't really change anything though since it's not up to us. So we can go back to what we were doing before.I get the feeling that figuring out if we actually want or need a subforum, and if so why, would be rather relevant to this. I was under the impression that the Toad's unsure and we're unsure, not that he's currently deliberating on his throne and will give us his decree in due time.
But, if you'd like to continue to discuss balance issues amidst the meta issues, I don't see the harm.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 19, 2014, 06:14:55 pm
@ Wyvern knights: I don't think we started on them yet here.
Post by: Solymr on May 20, 2014, 07:17:51 am
Reverse Musou (bonus AS and dmg for each 10 HP)
Bonus AS and dmg when over 70% HP or something.
And most people want us out of the main page so... :V
The name Further Journeys is ok for me, we can just put some welcoming thread explaining what the Further Journeys is.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 20, 2014, 07:39:55 am
Reverse Musou: For every 10 HP over 0 the character with this skill has, +1 AS and +2 DAM.
Dragonheart: When the character with this skill has 70% or more of their HP, +3 AS and 5 DAM.
Reverse Musou is a bit broken as it stands, since there's no risk in being at high health that Musou has. We could change it to 20 HP to nerf the possible benefits though, if people really like the idea and want to keep it though. I'm partial to the flat bonus myself.
Post by: Solymr on May 20, 2014, 07:45:46 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 20, 2014, 07:47:17 am
How about every 10 HP over 10 HP?
That could also address the issue slightly. Very slightly.
Post by: Solymr on May 20, 2014, 07:50:19 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 20, 2014, 07:54:16 am
When the cap on HP is 60 and no one has reached that cap yet it becomes quite significant.
The only reason it hasn't happened yet is that there have been no HP dependent builds yet.
That have been done well, anyway.
Post by: Solymr on May 20, 2014, 11:56:44 am
+1 AS and +1 DEF for each 10 HP
Post by: Culise on May 20, 2014, 12:53:03 pm
You make Raquel sad. There's a reason for that 80% growth rate in HP.When the cap on HP is 60 and no one has reached that cap yet it becomes quite significant.
The only reason it hasn't happened yet is that there have been no HP dependent builds yet.
That have been done well, anyway.
Post by: Sirus on May 20, 2014, 12:53:39 pm
Post by: Culise on May 20, 2014, 12:55:34 pm
Post by: IronyOwl on May 20, 2014, 02:13:17 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 20, 2014, 02:21:46 pm
I have to wonder about the design benefits of being stronger at full health than you are while injured. The reverse has some interesting tradeoffs; this just sounds kind of like losing twice every time you take damage.
Well for one thing, it'd be unique. No other class does it. And also there's a bit of realism there, slowly losing steam as you absorb blows.
Post by: Swordstar on May 20, 2014, 02:25:37 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 20, 2014, 02:28:21 pm
Could do something similar to Musuo, only instead of damage/AS do like... DEF/AS or something. Basically instead of making them damage dealers, make them tanks that do better as they take more hits.
Tanking with low health is a fool's game though.
Post by: Swordstar on May 20, 2014, 02:28:58 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 20, 2014, 02:30:25 pm
*shrug* I dunno, do you have a better idea? :P
I still like the high health benefits. Not everyone needs to get better as they edge closer and closer to death. :P
Post by: Solymr on May 20, 2014, 02:32:01 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 20, 2014, 02:33:35 pm
Reverse Musou with DEF instead od DMG counts as better? :V
Yeah. I'll probably vote for that at Poll time. But it can't have the same rate as Musou because there's less risk with being at high health.
Post by: Solymr on May 21, 2014, 09:34:00 am
Do you want the FEF games to have a glorious subforum for them?!
YES!
17 (56.7%)
NOPE!
3 (10%)
I DON'T CARE!
10 (33.3%)
Total Members Voted: 30
Next poll is Wyvern Hunters and Pierce.
Post by: Tiruin on May 22, 2014, 08:38:19 am
Post by: Solymr on May 22, 2014, 11:36:01 am
Next up is the issue with trainees and something else I don't remember.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 22, 2014, 01:25:44 pm
and something else I don't remember.
Changes to the way staves work, specifically changes to the formula.
Popular ideas are reducing the Mag-Res multiplier, reducing the base, and removing the base and giving each staff its own hit chance.
Post by: Solymr on May 22, 2014, 01:31:48 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 22, 2014, 01:46:51 pm
Staves and dances right?
I forget if dances have a slightly different formula or not. But sure.
Post by: Haspen on May 22, 2014, 02:18:40 pm
Post by: Solymr on May 22, 2014, 02:29:35 pm
Remember Anja's bullshit double paralyze? Vs a BISHOP?
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on May 22, 2014, 02:33:06 pm
Post by: Haspen on May 22, 2014, 02:34:46 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on May 22, 2014, 02:36:03 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 22, 2014, 02:37:08 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on May 22, 2014, 06:09:05 pm
Post by: Solymr on May 23, 2014, 06:56:50 am
I'll switch to trainees now and then the formula. But we have to keep thinking about the classes.Bishop, Commander, Crusader?
Squeegy anything from Toady?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 23, 2014, 08:45:23 am
The way I understood the book, Trainee and First Class starts are supposed to be two sides of a coin, rather than Trainee starts blowing First Class starts out of the water so hard they wind up back on the high dive. The idea is that while Trainees start out weaker than First Class, they eventually surpass them. The keyword here being Eventually. It shouldn't be going on by level 3 of First Class.
Not to mention my way obviates extra rolling when someone joins a game late.
Post by: Solymr on May 25, 2014, 05:19:45 am
Dammit guys I bet if you tried to vote in political stuff they wouldn't let you because it would always end on a TIE :V
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 25, 2014, 07:40:16 am
Post by: Solymr on May 26, 2014, 06:44:03 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 26, 2014, 10:14:11 am
I propose that they keep Heroic Light, and instead of Cover get Crusade.
Crusade
Activated effect
A character with this skill can activate it at any time during the Player Phase once per map. The character selects one First Class. That class and its promotions automatically lose to this character on the weapon triangle, regardless of what weapon they are using. This effect lasts until the end of the map.
Post by: Solymr on May 27, 2014, 07:28:33 am
Meanwhile, any ideas regarding Falcoknights, Warriors or Swashbucklers are welcome.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 27, 2014, 11:36:28 am
Meanwhile, any ideas regarding Falcoknights, Warriors or Swashbucklers are welcome.
Popular current ideas include:
Warrior getting Rough and Tumble similar to the Fighter-Hero from 1.22
Falcoknights getting Charge that is not hp restricted, activated rather than passive, and simply relies on having a higher speed than the opponent.
Swashbuckler getting an improved Water Walk, and not ignoring the weapon triangle if they would be losing (an ability tentatively named I Am Not Left-Handed)
Debate stuff you don't like and suggest things you would, please.
Post by: Solymr on May 27, 2014, 12:52:08 pm
Also poll is finished, staves and dances will get each a different base hit.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 27, 2014, 01:13:00 pm
Spoiler: Ailment staff category proposed hit rates (click to show/hide)
And dances. For the moment I'm suggesting quite high hit rates for several that previously did not require rolls to hit.
Spoiler: Offensive Dance proposed hit rates (click to show/hide)
EDIT: Also Status Effect stuff because we never did actually finish that. The main difference between Variants 1 and 2 here is the function of Paralyze, which there has been some discussion about changing.
Spoiler: Ye olde Status Effect Listing, Variation 1 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Ye olde Status Effect Listing, Variation 2 (click to show/hide)
Post by: Xanmyral on May 27, 2014, 08:25:45 pm
Also, as a random note, I always found it weird how some could double a sleeping/paralyzed unit and others couldn't. I know it makes sense from a mechanics standpoint, but we're talking about someone who can't even attempt to move, much less dodge.
Post by: Sirus on May 27, 2014, 08:35:47 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 27, 2014, 09:08:31 pm
So we aren't going by the book's ailment length?
We can change poison to 4.
Post by: Haspen on May 28, 2014, 06:56:47 am
This morning I have managed to register #feftalk on irc.darkmyst.org and put myself as an permament op,
Post by: Solymr on May 28, 2014, 07:07:11 am
Ok so what do we vote now, Crusaders, staves/dances or status effects?
Post by: darkpaladin109 on May 28, 2014, 07:33:23 am
Post by: Solymr on May 28, 2014, 07:41:33 am
Post by: Shoruke on May 28, 2014, 10:23:45 am
1) Solmyr
2) Solmyr's cat
3) Solmyr's other cat, and
4) Solmyr
Post by: Culise on May 28, 2014, 10:30:30 am
Considering the troll option has five votes, I'm guessing:Myan~.
1) Solmyr
2) Solmyr's cat
3) Solmyr's other cat, and
4) Solmyr
Post by: Haspen on May 28, 2014, 10:53:26 am
Considering the troll option has five votes, I'm guessing:Myan~.
1) Solmyr
2) Solmyr's cat
3) Solmyr's other cat, and
4) Solmyr
Meow :3
Post by: Tiruin on May 29, 2014, 03:35:28 am
...You people do know you can vote only once on that poll right?
So how do we discuss placeholder? .__.
People want something else to discuss? Nobody's talking D:
Post by: Shoruke on May 29, 2014, 04:07:39 am
Post by: Solymr on May 29, 2014, 05:49:00 am
Current few things about status effects that need discussing:
Duration and damage of poison.
What to do about sleep/paralyze/stone.
Determine the effects of less common statuses like fear.
Base hit of status inducing staves and dances.
Post by: Haspen on May 29, 2014, 06:11:52 am
Quote
Duration and damage of poison.
5 turns, 1-5 damage, like I do v:
Quote
What to do about sleep/paralyze/stone.
Sleep wears off after an attack, paralyze dont, screw stone, like I do :v
There, two out of 4 solved! :3
Post by: Solymr on May 29, 2014, 06:20:42 am
I proposed some new status effect to make up for screw stone but I don't know where that went.
I think it was something like oblivion in praef's game at sleep level, bumping sleep to what is now paralyze level and paralyze to stone level, so we have: oblivion, can't attack or move or get attacked, sleep, first attack is autohit and wakes em up, paralyze, every attack is autohit and doesn't remove paralysis.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 29, 2014, 09:10:13 am
Current few things about status effects that need discussing:
Duration and damage of poison.
What to do about sleep/paralyze/stone.
Determine the effects of less common statuses like fear.
Base hit of status inducing staves and dances.
5 turns of 1-5 damage is probably fine. It'll be long lasting compared to other statuses, but it's only ever a danger to low level character or those who are close to death anyway.
I don't like the Oblivion staff. It's an interesting idea, but removing someone from combat entirely is... really OP. And setting it below sleep seems odd. What's more useful- sleeping the General WAHLing you from getting into the keep, or sealing him in a pocket dimension, which allows you to wander around in the space he used to occupy.
Honestly, I'd prefer making paralyze a physical silence, and move the current paralyze effect to stone.
As for Fear: The unit afflicted with this condition cannot initiate battle. If the target can reach better defensive terrain with their MOV, they must do so. Lasts 3 turns.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 29, 2014, 12:50:52 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 29, 2014, 01:01:34 pm
Random Comment: I'm assuming that with Judgement magic, there's an implied 'and there promotions' going on there that isn't stated to save space. Because otherwise, every weapon B ranked and pass really lose out on on being useful because by then you're up against promoted units.
That's how I'm ruling it, yes.
Though theoretically, you could get up to A at First Class by having Discipline. But I digress.
Post by: Solymr on May 30, 2014, 09:18:02 am
| Name | Effect | Duration | Rank |
| Poison | Deals 1-5 damage. | 5 turns | (E) staff; (D) dance |
| Sleep | Can't move or act. Attacks are autohits. | 3 turns or until first hit | (E) staff |
| Silence | Can't cast magic or use staves. | 3 turns | (C) staff |
| Paralyze | Can't move or act. Attacks are autohits. | 3 turns | (C) staff; (D) dance |
| Berserk | Automatically attacks closest enemy. If no enemies in range attacks closest ally. If no one in range moves towards closest unit. | 3 turns | (B) staff |
| Stone | Can't move or act. Attacks are autohits with +30 crit. ? | 3 turns | (B) staff |
| Fear | Can't initiate combat. Must move away from enemies. If defensive terrain is in range must go towards it. ? | 3? turns | (B) dance |
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 30, 2014, 12:11:42 pm
Post by: Solymr on May 30, 2014, 01:38:06 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on May 30, 2014, 02:56:22 pm
We should probably do a poll for Paralyze. I know me and I think Xan wanted to make it a physical targeting Silence, and make Stone what Paralyze is now.
Aye. Solves things nicely. And puts the debilitating paralyze a bit further away.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 30, 2014, 03:07:38 pm
We should probably do a poll for Paralyze. I know me and I think Xan wanted to make it a physical targeting Silence, and make Stone what Paralyze is now.
Aye. Solves things nicely. And puts the debilitating paralyze a bit further away.
The option certainly seems popular.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on May 30, 2014, 03:11:49 pm
Post by: Tiruin on May 30, 2014, 03:19:04 pm
They're made of stone (in that context). While they can't move or act, shouldn't it be more of a...static affliction rather than a 'Oh my goodness s/he's made out of stone, we can easily break him with...my SPEAR now!'
...
Or something :x
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on May 30, 2014, 03:21:51 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 30, 2014, 03:22:32 pm
Post by: Culise on May 30, 2014, 03:27:22 pm
Agreed. If I had it my way only Crush and Club weapons, maybe magic, could hurt Stone'd characters. :PIf you follow the Radiant Dawn rules, Stone grants +10 DEF.
Honestly, I wonder why anyone would ever use the A or S rank ailment staves, myself. Putting someone out of combat entirely is much, much better than reducing their stats for a bit. Could reshuffle it a bit to put the debuffs early and the heavy-hitters late.
Post by: Solymr on May 30, 2014, 03:30:31 pm
Post by: Culise on May 30, 2014, 03:32:36 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on May 30, 2014, 06:37:00 pm
How about this for Stone: Attacks autohit, crit rates are doubled(not bonused, just doubled), and if you get critted, you are instantly taken to 0 health. Otherwise, you don't take any damage from anything. And of course, you can't move or act.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on May 30, 2014, 07:29:45 pm
Post by: Haspen on May 31, 2014, 03:08:53 am
Besides that, I think Sleep+Paralyze is enough...
Also I think you guys should re-classify ailment-healing staves. Currently you have D staff that heals Sleep (easy) and Berserk (hard) status, and then you get even weirder combinations. Shouldn't 'higher rank = more dangerous ailments removed'? :P
Post by: Solymr on May 31, 2014, 04:48:32 am
>Vote is tied
>FFS guys
Anyways Haspen is right. Since people thought removing someone from the field was op why not switch Stone for something like X-Zone: remove the enemy completely from the field for x turns.
Post by: Haspen on May 31, 2014, 05:11:48 am
/me wholeheartedly approves.
Post by: Solymr on June 01, 2014, 07:20:38 am
| Name | Effect | Duration | Rank |
| Poison | Deals 1-5 damage. | 5 turns | (E) staff; (D) dance |
| Sleep | Can't move or act. Attacks are autohits. | 3 turns or until first hit | (E) staff |
| Silence | Can't cast magic or use staves. | 3 turns | (C) staff |
| Paralyze | Can't move or act. Attacks are autohits. | 3 turns | (C) staff; (D) dance |
| Berserk | Automatically attacks closest enemy. If no enemies in range attacks closest ally. If no one in range moves towards closest unit. | 3 turns | (B) staff |
| X-Zone (in place of Stone) | Target is completely removed from the battlezone for the duration. | 3 turns | (B) staff |
| Fear | Can't initiate combat. Must move away from enemies. If defensive terrain is in range must go towards it. ? | 3 turns | (B) dance |
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 03, 2014, 06:14:52 pm
(Ailments )------.----------.-----.---.--------------------. |
(Name | Type ( ) | Wt | Ql | Range ) |
>--------------+----------+----+----+--------------------< |
|Sleep | Ailm (E) | 5 | 20 | 1 - 1/2 MAG | |
|20 hit. Causes Sleep status for 3 turns. Sleeped target cannot move or act and has their evade reduced to 0. Being struck by an attack immediately removes sleep.| |
>--------------+----------+----+----+--------------------< |
|Poison | Ailm (E) | 4 | 20 | 1 - 1/2 MAG | |
40 hit. Causes Poison for 4 turns. Poisoned Targets take 1-5 damage at the beginning of their turn.| |
>--------------+----------+----+----+--------------------< |
|Slow | Ailm (D) | 7 | 15 | 1 - 1/2 MAG | |
|20 hit. Reduces EVA by 20 for 3 turns. Does not stack | |
>--------------+----------+----+----+--------------------< |
|Befuddled | Ailm (D) | 6 | 15 | 1 - 1/2 MAG | |
|20 hit. Reduces HIT by 20 for 3 turns. Does not stack | |
>--------------+----------+----+----+--------------------< |
|Silence | Ailm (C) | 7 | 20 | 1 - 1/2 MAG | |
|30 hit. Causes Silence for 3 turns. Silenced characters cannot use Tomes or Staves, and cannot speak. | |
>--------------+----------+----+----+--------------------< |
|Addle | Ailm (C) | 8 | 20 | 1 - 1/2 MAG | |
| |15 hit. Causes Addled for 3 turns. Addled characters cannot use lances, bows, axes or swords. | |
| >--------------+----------+----+----+--------------------< |
| |Berserk | Ailm (B) | 10 | 10 | 1 - 1/2 MAG | |
| |10 hit. Causes Berserk for 3 turns. Berserked characters attack the nearest enemy unit available at the beginning of their phase. If no enemy units are in range, the unit will attack the closest allied unit in range. If no units are in range, the character will move toward the nearest unit, with priority for enemy units.| |
| >--------------+----------+----+----+--------------------< |
| |Paralyze | Ailm (B) | 8 | 20| 1 - 1/2 MAG | |
| |15 hit. Causes Paralysis for 3 turns. Paralyzed characters cannot move or act. | |
| >--------------+----------+----+----+--------------------< |
| |Misfortune | Ailm (A) | 11 | 5 | 1 - 1/2 MAG | |
| |25 hit. Reduces Critical to 0 for 3 turns. | |
| >--------------+----------+----+----+--------------------< |
| |Forget | Ailm (A) | 12 | 5 | 1 - 1/2 MAG | |
| |25 hit. Reduces MAG by 5 for 3 turns. Does not stack | |
| >--------------+----------+----+----+--------------------< |
| |Weakness | Ailm (S) | 16 | 5 | 1 - 1/2 MAG | |
| |15 hit. Reduces STR and DEF by 10 for 3 turns. Does not stack | |
| >--------------+----------+----+----+--------------------< |
| |Turncoat | Ailm (S) | 18 | 5 | 1 - 1/2 MAG | |
| |10 hit. Causes Turncoat for 3 turns. At the beginning of their phase, characters afflicted with Turncoat attack the nearest allied unit. If no allied units are in range, the unit will move toward the nearest allied unit. |
Edit: Working on Dances now.
Dances )-----------.----------.----.----.------------------ |
(Name | Type ( ) | Wt | Ql | ) |
>-----------------+----------+----+----+-----------------< |
|Surprising Shimmy | Danc (E) | 3 | 20 | | |
70 hit. Causes -15 to Hit for 3 turns. | |
>-----------------+----------+----+----+-----------------< |
|Subtle Jynx | Danc (E) | 4 | 20 | | |
70 hit. Causes -10 Critical for 3 turns| |
>-----------------+----------+----+----+-----------------< |
|Enamouring Step | Danc (D) | 5 | 20 | | |
20 hit. Causes Paralyse for 3 turns.| |
>----------------------------+----+----+-----------------< |
|Gypsy Lure | Danc (D) | 4 | 20 | | |
50 hit. Causes Poison for 4 turns.| |
>----------------------------+----+----+-----------------< |
|Petrifying Twist | Danc (C) | 8 | 15 | | | |
70 hit. MOV is reduced to 0 for 3 turns.| |
>----------------------------+----+----+-----------------< |
|Enchanting Tango | Danc (C) | 6 | 15 | | |
70 hit. Causes -15 to Evade for 3 turns.| |
| >----------------------------+----+----+-----------------< |
| |Vixen's Waltz | Danc (B) | 7 | 15 | | |
20 hit. Causes Fear for 3 turns. Characters afflicted with Fear cannot initiate battle, and must spend their MOV seeking defensive terrain if they aren't already on it.
| >----------------------------+----+----+-----------------< |
| |Disarming Swing | Danc (B) | 8 | 15 | | |
70 hit. Causes -5 STR and MAG for 3 turns. | |
| >----------------------------+----+----+-----------------< |
| |Sickening Shuffle | Danc (A) | 10 | 15 | | |
20 hit. Causes Poison and Paralyse. Roll separately | |
| >----------------------------+----+----+-----------------< |
70 hit. Causes -5 DEF and RES | |
| >----------------------------+----+----+-----------------< |
| |Despair March | Danc (S) | 15 | 5 | | |
30 hit. Cancels target's next turn | |
| |Does not effect certain enemies | |
| >----------------------------+----+----+-----------------< |
| |Valkyrie's Arrival| Danc (S) | 14 | 5 | | |
70 hit. Causes -5 Attack Speed and Damage| |
| `-----------------'----------'----'----'-----------------'
Post by: Solymr on June 04, 2014, 10:53:16 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 04, 2014, 11:48:09 am
Post by: Shoruke on June 05, 2014, 10:34:23 am
Post by: Solymr on June 05, 2014, 11:09:52 am
Finals does this to you. Three hour long finals just leave you retarded for the day.
Post by: Solymr on June 05, 2014, 12:05:41 pm
Post by: Solymr on June 07, 2014, 08:18:53 am
Post by: Haspen on June 07, 2014, 08:26:00 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 07, 2014, 09:01:47 am
Note about the third option: if Paralyze gets turned into Addle, do you mind Stone turning into Paralyze for balance?
That's gonna need a separate poll.
Post by: Solymr on June 07, 2014, 02:24:29 pm
BTW Paralyze staff is now Addle staff.
Post by: Solymr on June 08, 2014, 06:17:29 am
Crusaders, falcoknights, etc
Status healing staves appropriate to their rank
Thief trainees getting 5 MOV
Druidic/warding magic
Feel free to discuss these. or anything really I'm getting tired of double posting :v
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 08, 2014, 08:15:24 am
Thief trainees getting 5 MOV
Sensible.
Status healing staves appropriate to their rank
Well... it should be easier to dispel whatever negative effect than to put it up in the first place, I think. But for Kia and Soothe, maybe we should swap Berserk and Addle, so Soothe doesn't wind up jumping two weapon grades in terms of what it can dispel.
Edit: Also I suggest we raise the Cap on Momentum so that Celerity Duke Knights can be a thing.
Post by: Xanmyral on June 08, 2014, 11:00:41 am
If I may put something forward: Magic weapons are pretty useless. Let's be honest, few fighters use magic so the majority of the magical weapons are pretty pointless in most campaigns. Which stinks because they're cool weapons. So instead of just purely MAG, why not make them either 1/2 STR(Floor), or MAG depending on which is a higher bonus?
Post by: Solymr on June 08, 2014, 11:02:48 am
I suggest for magic weapons the mean between STR and MAG.
Post by: Sirus on June 08, 2014, 11:23:46 am
Post by: Xanmyral on June 08, 2014, 11:43:56 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 08, 2014, 11:50:24 am
Post by: Swordstar on June 09, 2014, 11:52:04 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 09, 2014, 11:54:32 am
Motion to give Wyvern Riders/Hunters axes instead of swords?
Seconded.
Post by: Swordstar on June 09, 2014, 11:55:37 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 09, 2014, 11:58:24 am
/me is still kinda sleepy to be honest.
Post by: F.O.E. on June 09, 2014, 11:58:49 am
Motion to give Wyvern Riders/Hunters axes instead of swords?
Thirded! I also agree that Hunters shouldn't get them.
Post by: Xanmyral on June 09, 2014, 12:05:20 pm
If Wyvern Knights get put to axes, that would just leave duke knight and falco knight as those who specialize in the two. So I can see why they placed them with swords instead of axes.
Post by: Taricus on June 09, 2014, 12:06:14 pm
Post by: darkpaladin109 on June 09, 2014, 12:07:43 pm
But yeah, I also agree with the notion that Wyvern Knights get Axes instead of Swords while Hunters stay the same.
I'd like to note that there actually aren't very many classes that mix swords and lances.Hmmm, but yeah, Xanmyral's also correct here. If we do that, then we should at least change another class so that they get Lances and Swords.
If Wyvern Knights get put to axes, that would just leave duke knight and falco knight as those who specialize in the two. So I can see why they placed them with swords instead of axes.
...Let them choose between the two? Seems the best idea to me for now.Taricus has a good idea here, I think.
Post by: Swordstar on June 09, 2014, 12:11:15 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on June 09, 2014, 01:02:51 pm
Post by: Solymr on June 09, 2014, 01:07:24 pm
About wyvern knights getting axes + lances I don't think we need a lot of classes with swords and lances. Only general and FK get both of them, so when the vote comes I'll put the option to let them choose, keep swords or change them to axes.
Also wyvern hunters should keep S lances.
Post by: Swordstar on June 09, 2014, 01:11:03 pm
And yeah, I think letting Wyvern Knights choose Axes or Swords is legit since there's precedence for them having both options.
Post by: Xanmyral on June 09, 2014, 01:13:09 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 09, 2014, 01:52:39 pm
Post by: CrimsonEon on June 11, 2014, 12:21:59 pm
Saints, in my opinion STR Transfer is useless. They deserve an ability that can amplify their main job better, healing, and make them more effective at it than any other staff user. So a couple suggestions got thrown around and I think we should take a poll:
1) Keep STR Transfer
2) Overheal; When you heal a character up to maximum, the extra HP above max can be transferred to another adjacent ally
3) Sacrifice; Saint can sacrifice HP to heal an adjacent character and cure them of status
Thoughts?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 11, 2014, 12:25:32 pm
I like both of those other options though, and wouldn't mind seeing them added to the Saint in addition to the STR transfer special.
Post by: Shoruke on June 11, 2014, 12:32:29 pm
-add level/2 to hp healed using a staff
-hp healed over target's max HP limit is converted into "temporary HP"
-when targeting an ally with a staff, target gets a boost to STR and MAG for 2 turns based on the staff's rank: 1 point for a rank E staff, up to 5 points for a rank A staff or 6 for rank S.
-as a readied action, prepare to heal an ally within range when they are attacked (so that even if they are KO'd, they are healed before the start of their turn and get to take their action).
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 11, 2014, 12:35:56 pm
If we're making healers better, here's another couple suggestions:
-add level/2 to hp healed using a staff
-hp healed over target's max HP limit is converted into "temporary HP"
-when targeting an ally with a staff, target gets a boost to STR and MAG for 2 turns based on the staff's rank: 1 point for a rank E staff, up to 5 points for a rank A staff or 6 for rank S.
-as a readied action, prepare to heal an ally within range when they are attacked (so that even if they are KO'd, they are healed before the start of their turn and get to take their action).
Healers are already indispensable. This is unnecessary. We're talking about the promoted class Saint specifically.
Post by: CrimsonEon on June 11, 2014, 12:38:57 pm
I think STR Transfer is a really neat and unique ability, especially since Saints, having very little offensive capability, can ignore SKL and dump points that would otherwise be reserved there for STR.
I like both of those other options though, and wouldn't mind seeing them added to the Saint in addition to the STR transfer special.
See, STR Transfer just doesn't fit in well with the Saint to me. After 8 STR, any further STR gains are useless since the Transfer caps out at 8. In order to make use of it then you have to have Center, thus you're locked in. In addition STR Transfer just feels like it takes away from the Saint's role of kickass staff user, especially since it takes up an action the Saint could use healing or inflicting ailments.
If we're making healers better, here's another couple suggestions:
-add level/2 to hp healed using a staff
-hp healed over target's max HP limit is converted into "temporary HP"
-when targeting an ally with a staff, target gets a boost to STR and MAG for 2 turns based on the staff's rank: 1 point for a rank E staff, up to 5 points for a rank A staff or 6 for rank S.
-as a readied action, prepare to heal an ally within range when they are attacked (so that even if they are KO'd, they are healed before the start of their turn and get to take their action).
What Blade Said: I'm aiming at Saints specifically. Healers already fit into the support role perfectly, what I'm pointing out is that Saints, being exclusively staff users and nothing else, don't feel any more effective at the job than Bishops, Nomad Healers, or hell, Call Magic Druids.
Post by: Solymr on June 11, 2014, 12:41:55 pm
I mean, they could get bonuses relative to the kind of staff they're using.
Also I hereby declare the Crusader able to crusade.
Post by: CrimsonEon on June 11, 2014, 12:44:33 pm
Should saints only be good at healing or also at using staves of any kind?
I mean, they could get bonuses relative to the kind of staff they're using.
Also I hereby declare the Crusader able to crusade.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking as well. But thing is I'm thinking that maybe if the Healer does their job more efficiently, maybe they'll have more actions freed up for throwing Aliment staves into the mix. Or hell, maybe it could be a specific bonus depending on their highest Proficiency:
Heal = Overheal
Aliments = Bonus to staff hit rate?
Buffs = Sacrifice, or something similar?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 11, 2014, 12:45:49 pm
I think STR Transfer is a really neat and unique ability, especially since Saints, having very little offensive capability, can ignore SKL and dump points that would otherwise be reserved there for STR.
I like both of those other options though, and wouldn't mind seeing them added to the Saint in addition to the STR transfer special.
See, STR Transfer just doesn't fit in well with the Saint to me. After 8 STR, any further STR gains are useless since the Transfer caps out at 8. In order to make use of it then you have to have Center, thus you're locked in. In addition STR Transfer just feels like it takes away from the Saint's role of kickass staff user, especially since it takes up an action the Saint could use healing or inflicting ailments.
It seems to me that if you have more than 8 STR, you can hand out bonus strength to multiple targets. And turns where you have no injured allies you can reach do happen-I wouldn't mind handing out free buffs in the meantime.
Post by: Solymr on June 11, 2014, 01:08:22 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 11, 2014, 02:47:01 pm
Transfer Might: The current Saint special, allowing them to lend up to 8 points of STR to an ally for the duration of the map. With capped STR, a Saint could give 3 character 8 and another 6 in this fashion.
Overheal/flow: Saints who heal more HP than the patient has taken damage can move that bonus healing to an ally adjacent to the target. Staves that heal a target to full health would treat the original target's current HP as the overflow value.
Sacrifice: Saints target an ally who has taken damage. They restore hp to the target, but lose HP equal to what they give the target. They cannot push themselves below 1 HP in this manner, and they must spend the maximum amount of HP possible when using it. Also, this action removes negative status effects from the target.
Specialization Bonus: The Saint gains an extra bonus associated with their preferred staff sub-type. Current ideas being floated are:
Healing: Overheal/flow, as above.
Buffing: Buff two targets as one action, at the cost of 3 quality from the staff. Alternatively, Transfer Stat: Similar to Transfer Might, allows the Saint to transfer any of their stats to another character (up to 5 points per) in addition to the use of a buff staff.
Ailments: If the initial attempt was a failure, and the targeted enemy has another enemy adjacent to them, the Saint may make an attempt against that enemy at no cost, and treats the range as 1 greater than the initial attempt, even if the target is closer.
Incoming poll stuff
Poll Title: Should Transfer Might be kept as the Saint Class Skill?
Option 1: Yes!
Option 2: Yes, but it needs something added (to be decided next poll)
Option 3: No, it should be replaced!
Post by: CrimsonEon on June 11, 2014, 03:20:02 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 11, 2014, 03:21:12 pm
New Poll and stuff. Apparently Saints are a really divisive thing if the IRC debates were anything to go by.
Just a wee bit it seems.
/me watches poll intently
Post by: Lucus Casius on June 12, 2014, 01:16:02 am
Kinda had to jump in here eventually to see what's going on.
Post by: Powder Miner on June 12, 2014, 03:06:27 am
Vendetta, Cost, gives effective damage against a class
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 12, 2014, 07:45:56 am
I kinda wanna suggest a char skill:
Vendetta, Cost, gives effective damage against a class
This does not strike me as something that we need. Or want.
Post by: Solymr on June 12, 2014, 10:57:41 am
(wow so many votes)
Post by: Sirus on June 12, 2014, 10:59:20 am
Post by: CrimsonEon on June 12, 2014, 11:00:38 am
I thought they were going to get those other skills based on Staff specialization :V
We're going to vote on that next poll, looks like.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 12, 2014, 11:06:42 am
Overheal/flow: Saints who heal more HP than the patient has taken damage can move that bonus healing to an ally adjacent to the target. Staves that heal a target to full health would treat the original target's current HP as the overflow value.
Sacrifice: Saints target an ally who has taken damage. They restore hp to the target, but lose HP equal to what they give the target. They cannot push themselves below 1 HP in this manner, and they must spend the maximum amount of HP possible when using it. Also, this action removes negative status effects from the target.
Specialization Bonus: The Saint gains an extra bonus associated with their preferred staff sub-type. Current ideas being floated are:
Healing: Overheal/flow, as above.
Buffing: Buff two targets as one action, at the cost of 3 quality from the staff. Alternatively, Transfer Stat: Similar to Transfer Might, allows the Saint to transfer any of their stats to another character (up to 5 points per) in addition to the use of a buff staff.
Ailments: If the initial attempt was a failure, and the targeted enemy has another enemy adjacent to them, the Saint may make an attempt against that enemy at no cost, and treats the range as 1 greater than the initial attempt, even if the target is closer.
Some of the current ideas for things to go alongside Transfer Might.
Post by: Solymr on June 12, 2014, 11:26:51 am
Post by: Swordstar on June 12, 2014, 10:21:01 pm
Post by: CrimsonEon on June 12, 2014, 10:54:56 pm
So question. If we end up going with the subcategory specialization thing that is currently winning in the poll, that would be we'd get three possible abilities in addition to Transfer Might, right? Cause that's what the last poll seemed to indicate, and if that's not what's going on then I'm going to vote differently than if it is.
Arguments are still going on between people in IRC, so it seems like the next poll is in fact going to be about determining which is the case.
I, personally, favor Heal subcat getting Overflow, and instead of Transfer Might, Buff subcat gets a refined version of Transfer Stat. Still contested about the Aliment subcat.
Post by: Xanmyral on June 12, 2014, 11:01:15 pm
Dualistic Approach: Sacrifice half your range and hit chance to be able to use two ailment staffs (that must be in your inventory) at once using either staff's hit rate for the two.
Post by: Swordstar on June 12, 2014, 11:03:01 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 12, 2014, 11:10:32 pm
Personally I think that Saints should get Transfer Might plus subcategory stuff and would only vote for subcategory if it was like that. Otherwise I'd probably just vote for Overheal.
The previous poll came out with Keep Transfer Might but give them something in addition after all.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on June 12, 2014, 11:12:10 pm
Quote
Healing: Overheal/flow, as above.
Buffing: Buff two targets as one action, at the cost of 3 quality from the staff.
Ailments: If the initial attempt was a failure, and the targeted enemy has another enemy adjacent to them, the Saint may make an attempt against that enemy at no cost, and treats the range as 1 greater than the initial attempt, even if the target is closer.
Post by: CrimsonEon on June 12, 2014, 11:24:10 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on June 12, 2014, 11:27:41 pm
Post by: CrimsonEon on June 12, 2014, 11:36:06 pm
But I agree on Overflow and Splashover, both fit well. To me though the extra QL cost of Doublebuff doesn't act as strong enough of a deterrent but that's just me. And I haven't been a fan of Transfer Might from the start and would prefer Transfer Stat as a Buff Spec instead of alongside, but ultimately if everyone else thinks Transfer Might must stay, then I'll roll with it.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 12, 2014, 11:54:56 pm
Overflow, Splashover, Doublebuff are the better ones. :|
I am inclined to agree.
Post by: Solymr on June 13, 2014, 06:12:53 am
If subcat wins we'll vote each of the subcat's bonus. If none of them results in Transfer Might/Stat then they will keep it apart from subcat bonus.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on June 13, 2014, 06:28:20 am
Post by: Solymr on June 13, 2014, 06:32:58 am
If none of the subcategory bonuses turn out to be Transfer Might/Stat, then Transfer Might will be kept as special apart from the staff spec bonuses.
So if you want all saints to keep Transfer Might, you know what you have to do (not voting for Transfer Might as a spec bonus :V)
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on June 13, 2014, 06:36:46 am
Post by: Solymr on June 13, 2014, 06:49:24 am
And I'm starting to think we should leave this vote for when we have it a little more cleared out.
Post by: Solymr on June 14, 2014, 01:43:18 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 14, 2014, 02:03:55 pm
This isn't something that's ready to be voted on, and doesn't really warrant discussion until we have the base rules settled, but I'm posting it in the thread for those not in the IRC.
Edit: Preliminary Names, Skills, Stats, and weapon Proficiencies for all Third Tier classes!
Post by: Solymr on June 15, 2014, 03:00:40 pm
Post by: Sirus on June 15, 2014, 03:03:03 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on June 15, 2014, 03:04:44 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 15, 2014, 03:09:40 pm
Any ideas for Buff specialization? I'll be changing the poll tomorrow.
Doublebuff: The Saint can use a Buff staff twice during their Phase, but it costs them 3 Quality.
Post by: Solymr on June 16, 2014, 02:14:28 pm
Post by: CrimsonEon on June 16, 2014, 02:16:47 pm
-Splashover [BMM]: If the first attempt fails, can cast again at an enemy adjacent to the target at +1 Range difficulty
Correct me if anyone has different ideas.
Post by: Xanmyral on June 16, 2014, 02:23:14 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 16, 2014, 02:55:04 pm
Maybe it should be if they succeed, they can try on an adjacent enemy? I mean, with how the staff equation is, a miss isn't very often to be honest, unless you target someone with good RES from a good distance.
We see misses with good stats all the time though. Edwin in particular barely ever hit with his staves despite having upper 70s chances most of the time.
Post by: Xanmyral on June 16, 2014, 03:03:09 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 16, 2014, 03:07:35 pm
Edit: wow, dropped 3 words there.
Post by: Furtuka on June 18, 2014, 11:53:34 am
Quote
[11:54] KujiUn ...
[11:54] KujiUn Oh, wait.
[11:54] KujiUn YOU GUYS HAVE A IRC
[11:55] Furtuka It was Kuji
[11:55] KujiUn That means I can DEFINITELY invite Cecil.
[11:55] CE yes
[11:55] Hatkitty Cecil who
[11:55] Furtuka I keep having to remind you that I-
[11:55] Furtuka THE BOOK WRITER
[11:55] Hatkitty WAIT
[11:55] Hatkitty OMG
[11:55] CE huh?
[11:55] darkpaladin109 neat
[11:55] Hatkitty explodes.
[11:55] Hatkitty CE: Cecil is the author of player handbook
[11:55] CE Cecil wrote the handbook?
[11:55] CE Oh SHIIIIIT
[11:55] swordstar lol
[11:55] Taricus Wait, you found him?
[11:55] CE Full flipping circle up in here
Re-freakin-joice
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 18, 2014, 08:32:51 pm
Post by: Solymr on June 19, 2014, 03:19:46 am
*waves to Cecil*
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 19, 2014, 07:41:43 am
Splashover: If the saint misses with an ailment staff, they can target an enemy adjacent to the target and immediately make an attempt against them instead.
No title: If the saint hits with an ailment staff, they can target an enemy adjacent to their original target and make an attempt at them with no cost.
Post by: Solymr on June 19, 2014, 08:00:55 am
This is the last saint poll, so start discussing next topic pls
Post by: Xanmyral on June 19, 2014, 11:26:36 pm
Stat Changes
Wanderer: Two points of LCK moved to STR and MAG.
Rogue: Point from HP moved to CON
Falco Knight: Point of STR moved to CON
Duke Knight: Point of LCK and DEF moved to SKL
Troubadour: Point of Base RES moved to Base CON
Thief: Point of Base SKL and Base SPD moved to Base LCK
Comments: Just looks like rebalancing to me.
Spell List Changes
Sage:
5: Poison -> Elfire 5
6: Elfire -> Storm 5
14: Carrion -> Lunar Wind 8
19: Physic -> Avalon 15
20: Fimbulvetr -> Balganone 15
Lore Master:
2: Fire -> Wind 2
13: Sacred Steel -> God hand 5
19: Physic -> Fimbulvetr 15
Druid:
2: Fire -> Thunder 2
4: Heal -> Elwind 3
7: Black Sword -> Hellwind 6
13: Restore -> Gorgon's Eye 5
14: Hellfire -> Hellthunder 8
16: Rescue -> Vortex 8
19: Physic -> Thoron 15
Comments: Physic now no longer on Call Magic spell list, Druid lost all but Mend for healing and helping magic. Spells got differentiated between the lists.
I may of missed some or misread something, so feel free to double check.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 19, 2014, 11:38:15 pm
Wanderer change is probably good- two different sources of damage should probably go up if you don't have Magic Weapon or whatever.
Rogue change seems kind of pointless. They don't have lots of CON, but they do have S rank sword specialty. Seems to me they don't need more CON.
Falco Knight: They can use weapons with a weight of 13 or better in their chosen category without penalty before this, so that's most piercing lances except for Greatlances, which makes sense to me since pegasus units didn't tend to be able to carry much in terms of heavy weaponry in the games. And their base strength is already not so hot.
Duke Knight: Makes perfect sense to me, dropping defensive stats on the offensive cavalier promote in favor of moar crit and hit.
Troubadour: Well, Ami couldn't use an Iron Axe without it affecting her AS. I would support this.
Thief: The speed, I am definitely on board with, since they have a base of 9, which leads to early capramming if people don't distribute progression sensibly. Skill I am less sure of- But steal is dependent on luck as well as speed, so there you go.
As for what we vote on next though, I suggest we begin altering the Call Magic class specials. We can use this information to alter the list of spells available, and up the costs where necessary and add in Haspen's other Memory Magic changes.
Because I don't think there's anyone from FEF who can say call magic isn't overpowered with a straight face.
Post by: Swordstar on June 19, 2014, 11:43:40 pm
Other stuff is *shrug* but yeah
Post by: Solymr on June 20, 2014, 07:22:06 am
Post by: Solymr on June 21, 2014, 05:59:23 am
Also we need a full list of spells for Haspen's Memory Magic.
Post by: Haspen on June 21, 2014, 06:08:06 am
Voila :P
Post by: Solymr on June 21, 2014, 06:10:27 am
Post by: Haspen on June 21, 2014, 06:16:36 am
I've listed errything there y u no research.
Post by: Solymr on June 21, 2014, 12:51:08 pm
Post by: Furtuka on June 21, 2014, 08:01:45 pm
Post by: Haspen on June 22, 2014, 03:29:13 am
Post by: Solymr on June 22, 2014, 10:44:43 am
Post by: Sirus on June 22, 2014, 10:48:46 am
Post by: Xanmyral on June 22, 2014, 10:50:56 am
Post by: Solymr on June 22, 2014, 10:56:33 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 22, 2014, 11:18:27 am
And the planned change to Bag of Holding makes it even more uselessest.
I don't understand why we think it needs to be changed? 5 spaces for weapons and however many of anything else seems fine to me.
Post by: Sirus on June 22, 2014, 11:20:58 am
There used to be a time where what you could carry was affected by CON.I know that, but it doesn't seem like anyone follows that rule. So why boost CON (all but useless with S-rank swords) in exchange for dropping HP (always useful)?
Post by: Xanmyral on June 22, 2014, 11:24:02 am
Post by: Solymr on June 22, 2014, 11:24:59 am
Except Bag of Holding as for now doesn't allow you to hold weapons once you go over 5 items :IAnd the planned change to Bag of Holding makes it even more uselessest.
I don't understand why we think it needs to be changed? 5 spaces for weapons and however many of anything else seems fine to me.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 22, 2014, 11:29:48 am
I... don't think so? It seems to me that the new weapon would just displace an item into the bag of holding space.Except Bag of Holding as for now doesn't allow you to hold weapons once you go over 5 items :IAnd the planned change to Bag of Holding makes it even more uselessest.
I don't understand why we think it needs to be changed? 5 spaces for weapons and however many of anything else seems fine to me.
Post by: Rolepgeek on June 22, 2014, 11:34:10 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 22, 2014, 11:35:33 am
Not that it ever read that way to me.
Post by: Sirus on June 22, 2014, 11:36:22 am
Quote
Bag of Holding
Passive Effect
The character has infinite storage for items. However, once they go
over the normal storage limit, they can no longer have weapons of any
kind on their person.
Post by: Xanmyral on June 22, 2014, 11:38:20 am
Post by: Solymr on June 22, 2014, 11:44:20 am
This is what I thought: after going over 5 items the Rogue needs to spend an action to change weapons.
Alternatively just give them 10 slots.
Post by: birdy51 on June 22, 2014, 11:46:40 am
Post by: Sirus on June 22, 2014, 11:47:24 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 22, 2014, 11:49:05 am
And it's very rare that FEF characters need to carry more than 5 things anytime anyway.
Post by: Solymr on June 22, 2014, 11:55:35 am
This will be put to vote after stat changes.
Post by: CecilHoshino on June 22, 2014, 02:56:28 pm
Any rules or abilities vaguely worded and you'd like authorial intent on? Ask away!
Want to know the context for specific changes, down to a shake down and "What were you thinking?" By all means, voice it!
Have a potential change in the works and would like my opinion on? You shouldn't have to, but if you want to include me in the discussion, sure!
Whatever you'd like to know, from rules to context to potential new changes in a later version of the book, I'm open to answering most any question. I apologize for the potential derail this is, as you're in the middle of stat changes and class ability tweaks, so please keep discussing that, and whenever a question strikes, just slip it into the bottom of your post.
Once again, it's awesome to meet you all, and to know my book spawned such fascinating discourse.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 22, 2014, 03:01:37 pm
As you may have noticed, we're currently discussing the Bag of Holding Rogue special. There is is some confusion on how it is meant to be interpreted. Could you explain how it is supposed to work for us?
Post by: Solymr on June 22, 2014, 03:02:28 pm
When and why did you start working on the book?
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on June 22, 2014, 03:02:55 pm
Post by: darkpaladin109 on June 22, 2014, 03:04:17 pm
Did you plan to release the rulebook somewhere?
Were awareness and parity made while keeping in mind that enemies would keep class abilities?
Post by: Sirus on June 22, 2014, 03:06:10 pm
Post by: darkpaladin109 on June 22, 2014, 03:06:30 pm
Post by: CecilHoshino on June 22, 2014, 03:52:00 pm
As you may have noticed, we're currently discussing the Bag of Holding Rogue special. There is is some confusion on how it is meant to be interpreted. Could you explain how it is supposed to work for us?
Let me answer that question in two parts.
1) The Idea When I Wrote It: Picture the Rogue having two inventory pages. One that's (3 + 1 for every 5 CON) big, in which the Rogue can carry whatever it wants, be it weapons or items. The second inventory is the Bag of Holding, which can hold as many items as the Rogue wants, but any weapons they pick up, if there's no room in the main inventory, cannot go into the Bag of Holding; it has to, instead, go to the Supply Line, or be dropped if there is no Supply Line/Merchant. The idea behind this was to allow the Rogue to run all around the map, unlocking every treasure chest they so please, and not have to worry about inventory, but without the issue of them being a walking armory.
2) A Possible Alternative In A Later Edition: Instead of a particular limitation of what can or cannot go into the bag, instead, the Rogue can hold everything in the bag, but cannot use any of it; it has to be traded out to other party members; the Rogue alone cannot swap items from main inventory to Bag (at least, not without help from another player in an extended trade chain). Also, if the Rogue dies/is forced to retreat while items are in the Bag, they're all lost, gone, abandoned.
Basically, its intent was to be a big old swag bag the Rogue carried around (http://i942.photobucket.com/albums/ad264/CecilHoshino/SwagBag_zps2d8091a2.jpg); capable of collecting everything, but highly impractical to actually whip them out and use them in the heat of combat.
Were awareness and parity made while keeping in mind that enemies would keep class abilities?
One of the things I really wished I got done before putting the beta out there was an Enemy guidebook, or at least a section that detailed baseline enemy stat; while obviously not ALL class skills are available to the enemy (since enemies are jerks who don't rescue their allies), by and large, terrain based skills and stat boosts like Inspiration were planned to be included for enemies. Obviously, they wouldn't work exactly like they do for the players themselves, but, in general, yes, even enemies outside of bosses were planned to have some form of class abilities.
When and why did you start working on the book?
Hm, one question that's been on my mind is why exactly you decided to out the rulebook together in the first place?
Did you plan to release the rulebook somewhere?
Back around the release of FE7 in English is where this story begins. A friend of mine and I were really into it, and RPGs, so we wanted to play an FE style RPG. We spitballed some ideas that were pretty blase, gave it a test run, and lost steam/interest. After that, the idea just sat on my laptop for years.
Fast forward to 2010; I had just graduated from The Art Institute of Vancouver, having completed the Game Art and Design program. I was now looking for work in the game industry, and, too keep myself busy, I decided to try working on a project. I decided to start with Tabletop game design, like a board game or RPG. I noticed there were RPG books for a lot of franchises, like Dr. Who, Star Wars, Everquest, so on. So I decided to go back to the Fire Emblem RPG, and try my hand at it again.
Realistically, I figured it'd be fun to just share with some friends, but I also figured it might not be a bad supplement to my portfolio for future job searching. And, as a sort of selfish and kinda unrealistic dream, to actually get this released would be amazing, but, you know, keeping it as a freeware game for download and stuff, that'd be the big goal at the end of it all.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 22, 2014, 03:59:58 pm
Post by: CecilHoshino on June 22, 2014, 04:25:35 pm
Post by: birdy51 on June 22, 2014, 04:29:07 pm
Usually whatever items you have in a battle is usually enough. Which makes the prospect of carrying around extra items and being punished for that an unappealing prospect.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 22, 2014, 04:44:40 pm
Post by: Sirus on June 22, 2014, 04:54:02 pm
The problem is... Rogues don't have much need to carry around that many items.Keep in mind that rogues can
Usually whatever items you have in a battle is usually enough. Which makes the prospect of carrying around extra items and being punished for that an unappealing prospect.
A) Open chests without lockpicks or keys, and
B) Steal items from enemies.
So their inventories can actually fill up rather quickly.
Post by: Haspen on June 24, 2014, 03:13:37 am
Spoiler: Alchemy! (click to show/hide)
Do note that these are random ramblings of hyperactive night-time brain; not planning to include alchemy in any currently running FEF/NEF.
Post by: Tiruin on June 24, 2014, 03:16:54 am
I'm either planning my first FEF game to be unconventional-like...or just make it one huge saga from all the scraps of story ideas I write down everywhere.
On the walls with taped paper on it on the 5'6" ceiling with memos on corkboard... on the papers on the floor.
Post by: Haspen on June 24, 2014, 03:20:27 am
Post by: Solymr on June 24, 2014, 05:37:45 am
Also question for Cecil: why the removal of Forest Knight in v1.22?
Post by: Xanmyral on June 24, 2014, 09:53:41 am
Post by: Haspen on June 24, 2014, 10:11:55 am
I'm shuddering at flipping a coin every time a unit passes a grass tile.
What no, they have to use an action aka spend a turn v:
Post by: Sirus on June 24, 2014, 10:20:56 am
No. Just no. Falcoknights need that STR.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 24, 2014, 10:42:27 am
What's with taking useful stats away from classes in exchange for CON? O_o;
No. Just no. Falcoknights need that STR.
Falcoknights have low Con and no S ranks. They need it to carry heavier lances into battle without reducing one of their primary stats, speed.
Post by: Solymr on June 24, 2014, 10:44:54 am
And CON is more valuable than a point of STR, it would require more to be a fair trade.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 24, 2014, 03:01:13 pm
And, what is up with Archer Defense?
Post by: CecilHoshino on June 25, 2014, 04:38:06 pm
Also question for Cecil: why the removal of Forest Knight in v1.22?
Part of it was the utter lack of identity the Forest Knights had, compared to the Warrior; at the end of the day, it was mostly around for the Lances to counter the weakness of the Axe specialization. On top of that, FE8 and 13 (as well as FE5 when you consider the translated names of Othlin and Halvan's classes) firmly established that Fighter -> Hero was a standard promotion path. The final nail was back on the RPOL testing grounds; one of the players mentioned that future players might want to run the Hector route, tanky axe fighter who promotes to swinging swords on the side; this was before Knights had the option to be like their FE4/5/10 counterparts and specialize in any of the physical weapons, not just the Lance and Axe/Sword on promotion, but, even still, Hero's new skills would've fit a Hector expy anyway.
Cecil, two questions: What are the cost values for the stats when they are applied as promotion bonuses or base stats?
And, what is up with Archer Defense?
If I understand what you mean by cost values, what I try to do is keep things at least numerically balanced in that no class gains more or less from their base or promotions than the others. Knights get a little extra to make up for their -1 MOV, Thieves and their ilk tend to suffer a little penalty to make up for their +1 MOV, and some math errors happen like Archers have 5 more than they should, but, in general, I try to keep Base Stats for the First Classes at 50, promotion from Trainee to Tier One at +10, and promotion from Tier One to Tier Two at +15
As for the Archer's Defense, that comes from the Akaneia games (1, 3, 11, 12). There was the division between the Archers (who promoted to Snipers) and the Hunters (who promoted to Horsemen). In general, Hunters were stronger, but frailer, while Archers could take more of a hit if they were unfortunate enough to get attacked on their turn. Higher Defense and HP, I felt, gave Archers less fear about going into battle where there's only a 1 gap spot between them and the target, and to help combat with all the other ranged options like Spears and Throwing Axes.
Post by: Solymr on June 26, 2014, 10:14:17 am
Also OP restructuring is due, I will include a list of FEF games.
Post by: KujiUn on June 27, 2014, 08:16:17 am
Post by: Solymr on June 28, 2014, 12:48:39 pm
I noticed base troubs have less RES than priest trainees and if this change comes through we should change the promotion bonuses or the trainee base to make it more consistent.
Post by: IronyOwl on June 28, 2014, 10:46:39 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on June 28, 2014, 11:14:19 pm
Of course, it also limits the amount of tactical choices the group could make, which in relation limits the amount of situations a group could also sustain successfully. So as the number of people lessen, the amount of complexity that could be put into a single battle similarly lessens. So while one would have to think more of how they move and where with fewer people due to greater risk, the amount of options and stratagems available also shrink so that strategies become less complex due to fewer moving parts and things one could tinker with.
So a quick game that may require more frequent thinking but of smaller breadth and depth would be a smaller one, while a slow game that has less frequent thinking but of greater breadth and depth would be a larger one.
[/$0.02]
Post by: Solymr on June 30, 2014, 02:11:39 pm
I want to propose a couple changes to the promotion bonuses for Troub and Thief:
Troubadour: -1 LCK, +1 CON
Thief: -1 SKL, +1 LCK
Post by: Solymr on July 01, 2014, 07:06:14 am
Priest trainees can't promote to Monks.
Something for the Pegasus Rider?
Battle Mage Imbue Arrow side effect for Fire change.
Memory Magic.
Removing Momentum's limit.
Forest Knight trapping rework.
Mage Knight's Physical Training giving a proficiency bonus when promoting from Troubadour.
Master Spy traps.
Mountain Warrior Big Swing and Mountain Sprint.
Rogue Bag of Holding change or not.
Sage proficiencies to S anima and no staves.
Shadow Sword Marked for Death stuff.
Sniping change.
Summon buffs?
Swashbuckler immunity of WTD. Or something.
Warrior's Rough and Tumble.
Wyvern Knight choic between swords and axes.
Warding magic change (half damage?).
Druidic magic change (double damage/half damage?).
That's all the proposed changes I can think of.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 01, 2014, 02:25:34 pm
2. Why not? I realize they lose staff proficiency, but that leaves priest trainee with only two paths to choose.
3. I was thinking something along the lines of +1 mov if they travel 5 tiles in one direction during their mov.
4. No idea for this.
5. Necessary.
6. Great idea.
7. Forest Knight can drop 3 single use traps that deal 15 damage and immediately end the target's turn, and immobilize them for 3 turns.
8. I thought we determined they just get two C/D weapon ranks?
9. I'll dig up the discussion on ideas there sometime tonight maybe.
10. I think we determined the 5 hit for 1 damage was a good trade off.
11. I still think it's unnecessary.
12. It would give us a base S rank Anima.
13. Marked for Death: The Shadow Sword chooses an enemy unit: The Shadow Sword and all Allies get 15 hit, 3 DAM, and 5 Crit against the target or the Shadow Sword is reduced to 0 hp.
14. Why does Sniping need to be changed?
15. Never noticed a problem with Summoners either.
16. The idea was that Swashbucklers could never lose on the Weapon Triangle, but they could win it. Don't have a name for it yet. Also, they'd get an improved Water Walk, sort of like the Mountain Warrior's mountain sprint.
17. Basically 1.22's Fighter Hero's special on the Warrior. I like it.
18. I don't see why not. Heck, even dropping swords entirely in favor of axes, since many Wyvern riders in the games used those over axes, in fact.
19. I don't know about halving damage, but I think a flat defensive bonus against the relevant weapon would be much better than a piddling def or res per hit the monk lands.
20. Yeah, that's still confusing.
Cecil, can we get a bit of explanation what exactly Trumping does with druidic magic?
Post by: Xanmyral on July 01, 2014, 07:48:07 pm
Spoiler: Massive but Not Confusingly Laid Out Response (click to show/hide)
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 01, 2014, 08:13:47 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on July 01, 2014, 08:35:43 pm
Spoiler: Mess O' Quotes (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 01, 2014, 08:42:01 pm
It seems about as, if not more, ridiculous to me to suggest 'oh now I know how to ride dragons' as it does to say 'oh now I don't use lances anymore'.
Seriously. They just lose their lance, or they don't like using it, or they were never all that good in the first place and realize it would be pointless now. Or allow Rider Trainees to use bows from Trainee level if they're going to go Nomad. But replacing your horse with a wyvern doesn't really make much sense either.
Post by: Xanmyral on July 01, 2014, 08:52:55 pm
Normally I'd also say that wyvern's aren't dragons, but to be honest FE wyvern's aren't really wyverns either, what with the six limbs. But a setting can call anything what they wish though really, and the difference is largely arbitrarily drawn considering there isn't any real solid basis for fantasy.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 01, 2014, 11:31:14 pm
And I don't think it's significantly odder to swap to wyvern from a horse than it is to go from a foot soldier to a horse/wyvern. My main sticking point is the sudden change in weapons.
Xanmy makes a point about mount changing though. We may want to do what we did with mage trainees and just give rider trainees the appropriate mount.
And as for Marked for Death: It would be against one enemy, and ending when either the designated target or the Shadow Sword dies.
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 02, 2014, 12:36:21 am
Post by: Xanmyral on July 02, 2014, 01:34:59 am
BMM: Alright, so its against one enemy. How many times can it be used? I can't help but see it always being eaten by the boss if its a single use thing.
Post by: Solymr on July 02, 2014, 05:09:45 am
The priest to monk is more for weapon consistency than anything really.
We had two ideas for Marked for Death: one was the shadow sword gets effective damage vs the marked target and the other was the designation for the team. I didn't think of more than one use because I didn't want them to be able to mark half the map :V
If we give them something like a turn cooldown, they should lose sneak attack tho.
The only thing I see unnecessary now is the sniping change cause I can't read.
Finally after the stat changes we'll vote on the rider trainee thing.
Post by: Xanmyral on July 02, 2014, 09:26:50 am
I'll still be sad to see sneaking go though, although I understand the dislike for terrain dependency.
Post by: CecilHoshino on July 03, 2014, 04:06:19 pm
Cecil, can we get a bit of explanation what exactly Trumping does with druidic magic?
Weapon Triangle Bonus/Disadvantage.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 03, 2014, 04:27:09 pm
Post by: CecilHoshino on July 04, 2014, 04:10:35 pm
Post by: Solymr on July 04, 2014, 04:13:21 pm
Now the main idea is double damage against the one it trumps and WTD or possibly half damage vs everything else.
Post by: Haspen on July 04, 2014, 04:15:55 pm
Actually, it was that, or "Effective Against the one it beats, WTD against the ones it doesn't."
That's the definition I began to use after someone made a character for that category. Yay I think like our noble creator, woo! :P
Post by: Solymr on July 06, 2014, 11:58:40 am
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 06, 2014, 12:05:13 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 06, 2014, 12:08:36 pm
Because they have pretty low everything elze?
Not really the point. A thief who puts decent progression in Speed is going to capram fairly early compared to other classes, and if they don't, they'll quickly lose the speed advantage at promotion, which is weird.
Also, Luck is used in the thief's class special, and could probably start higher.
Post by: darkpaladin109 on July 06, 2014, 12:10:09 pm
Because they have pretty low everything elze?Even then, they have 4 strength and 6 skill, which you know, is decent for starting stats.
Post by: Xanmyral on July 06, 2014, 01:22:18 pm
EDIT: Also another question, how does Fencer's Sneaking work exactly? I noticed it was a passive effect, and the wording sort of confused me a bit. Does it eat the unit's move, four of its move, or cost nothing to activate? Does it stealth the fencer (at least until the enemy realize there's nobody on their prior pillar) or was there a different meaning meant about the last sentence?
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 06, 2014, 06:29:09 pm
HOWEVER
I'd like to say that while I'm okay with them losing some speed for luck, I don't think they should lose skill for luck.
As well, I think that Luck should contribute to Hit Chance as much as it does to Evade, and a little bit to Crit. That should persuade people to love on it more.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 06, 2014, 06:32:31 pm
Eh. I like Luck, actually, so I'll change my vote from a No to a Yes, please.
HOWEVER
I'd like to say that while I'm okay with them losing some speed for luck, I don't think they should lose skill for luck.
As well, I think that Luck should contribute to Hit Chance as much as it does to Evade, and a little bit to Crit. That should persuade people to love on it more.
I actually tried altering luck in a similar fashion for a while. It just leads to more auto-hitting, and with the changes we made to character skills, luck has a stronger role to play than previously.
Post by: Xanmyral on July 06, 2014, 06:36:09 pm
Both are aided by the base hit and crit of a weapon, something that Dodge and Evasion will simply never get, hit were to grow at the exact same rate as evasion, then evasion will almost always be behind due to the fact that it lacks a base while hit does not.
So you have two numbers trying to compete with each other with the same rate of growth, except one is aided by a, at the very least, fifty point base but more often in the seventies and sixties. They'd never compete.
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 06, 2014, 06:39:50 pm
However, I was thinking something like 1/2 of luck added to crit, mostly because it seems so weird that luck doesn't contribute to crit, considering they're, you know. Crits.
Post by: Xanmyral on July 06, 2014, 06:44:58 pm
The only cases we've had auto-evasions was when it was an inaccurate weapon wielded by people with low skill (facing weapon triangle disadvantage) faced against someone with high luck and speed or the addition of really strong defensive terrain. Even then, that's just two instances.
I'm still against luck adding to critical hits simply because weapons have a basis of crit, and it isn't hard to send your crit soaring with some minor work. Sure, it makes sense in a form, but dodge has a hard enough time keeping up against crit considering it can never raise above thirty, which some weapon's base crit goes above or meets it (although that's far, far fewer in the 1.22 weapon's list).
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 06, 2014, 06:55:53 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on July 06, 2014, 07:03:02 pm
Post by: Solymr on July 06, 2014, 07:23:53 pm
I'll change it tomorrow cause right now I'm a little intoxicated.
Post by: CecilHoshino on July 07, 2014, 05:00:45 pm
Oh, right, I have a question for Cecil that I've been forgetting for a while: Do you know/have the weapons (Lance Pierce subcategory) that were cut off there? We were just gonna take from 1.20, but you might have what was actually intended to go there. Considering the blank pages to follow, we assumed a major typo/error happened.
EDIT: Also another question, how does Fencer's Sneaking work exactly? I noticed it was a passive effect, and the wording sort of confused me a bit. Does it eat the unit's move, four of its move, or cost nothing to activate? Does it stealth the fencer (at least until the enemy realize there's nobody on their prior pillar) or was there a different meaning meant about the last sentence?
Weapons - It was indeed a critical error in the PDF transfer. Fortunately, only four weapons were lost due to that error (that I know of). So here's what the missing weapons were:
| Name | Rank | Rng | Wt | Mt | Hit | Crt | Ql | Bonus |
| Sun Lance | (A) | 1-1 | 16 | 12 | 80 | 0 | 20 | Effective vs Horseback |
| Silver Lance | (A) | 1-1 | 14 | 14 | 75 | 0 | 20 | |
| Wind Lance | (S) | 1-2 | 18 | 14 | 90 | 0 | 15 | Use MAG stat. Acts as Anima and Lance |
| Silver GrtLance | (S) | 1-1 | 20 | 16 | 75 | 0 | 15 |
As for the Fencer's Sneaking ability, I apologize for the poor wording. First of all, by using 1 MOV, they can shift to another, unoccupied pillar within 4 Spaces, and then use the rest of their MOV for other purposes. If they DON'T move after Shifting, they are, indeed, Stealthed, until the enemy realizes the previously occupied pillar is now unoccupied, or if the Fencer makes an attack or moves off the pillar they sneaked onto (or if, on the enemy's turn, they stumble into the Fencer by accident, in which case their turn immediately ends much like if a player runs into an enemy in Fog of War)
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 07, 2014, 05:11:23 pm
Or a purpose for sidearms besides niche and gimmick uses?
And is Ancient Gamble meant to work for every attack a Shaman makes?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 07, 2014, 05:32:11 pm
As for the Fencer's Sneaking ability, I apologize for the poor wording. First of all, by using 1 MOV, they can shift to another, unoccupied pillar within 4 Spaces, and then use the rest of their MOV for other purposes. If they DON'T move after Shifting, they are, indeed, Stealthed, until the enemy realizes the previously occupied pillar is now unoccupied, or if the Fencer makes an attack or moves off the pillar they sneaked onto (or if, on the enemy's turn, they stumble into the Fencer by accident, in which case their turn immediately ends much like if a player runs into an enemy in Fog of War)
Holy crap, that seems broke as hell. They could only possibly do that once per turn right? They couldn't continuously FTL between pillars to theoretically cover 20 spaces in a turn, right?
Post by: CecilHoshino on July 07, 2014, 05:56:45 pm
Cecil, is there a reason swords are so much better than basically every other category?
Part of it's subjective; certain weapons from certain categories are probably the best of their tier, and some just prefer others.
Part of it's a hold over from Fire Emblem proper, which has pretty much, throughout its entire history, shown favouritism to Swords and the classes who specialize in their use.
Part of it's from how the the weapon subsets try to fulfill a niche. For Lances and Axes, those tend to be "Raw Power, Range, Other." For Swords, given how neatly Fencer, Mercenary, and Myrmidon were divided, they each had a sword category tailored to them.
But it could very well come down to poor number balancing; after all, in a testing environment like this, you really stress test the numerical values, see what's too much, what's too little, and try to work it out from there.
Or a purpose for sidearms besides niche and gimmick uses?
Their purpose was more for the Thief Trainee and their promotions; something utility based, light weight, and potentially ranged. They're gimmick and niche based, if only because that's sort of the point of all the subcategories, having a niche they fill for a class.
And is Ancient Gamble meant to work for every attack a Shaman makes?
This is a bit tricky, since what you're using for Ancient Gamble, and what future installments of the book use for Ancient Gamble, are two entirely different things. But, in general, no, it's only a once per battle thing.
Holy crap, [Sneaking] seems broke as hell. They could only possibly do that once per turn right? They couldn't continuously FTL between pillars to theoretically cover 20 spaces in a turn, right?
Only once per turn, yes.
Post by: Swordstar on July 07, 2014, 06:11:47 pm
Quote
And is Ancient Gamble meant to work for every attack a Shaman makes?
This is a bit tricky, since what you're using for Ancient Gamble, and what future installments of the book use for Ancient Gamble, are two entirely different things. But, in general, no, it's only a once per battle thing.
That seems... really weak no offense. Also the wording is really bad if that's the case. The skill is already extremely chancy since it's a percentage thing. Add into that either you're using base str or you're dumping growth into a stat that is literally only used for that skill, and it basically becomes useless.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 07, 2014, 06:13:24 pm
Post by: Swordstar on July 07, 2014, 06:15:21 pm
And that's why new Ancient Gamble is a million times better.
Ehhhhh, I'm still not a fan of making already (usually) slow characters take a major dump of speed but that's just me I guess.
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 07, 2014, 06:35:17 pm
For the subcategories, it seemed like Sidearms didn't really have a theme to them, though; they had multiple independent little things going on in it, from range to status ailments to sword-hate to crit(plus, not even a Brave Dagger. Bah!). And, while it might be well and good to hold things over from Fire Emblem like favoritism and some classes being just plain better than others...it's not really fun, or fair, to the people who like other classes and want to play those. :/
Crushing is raw damage, Thrusting is Effective damage(which was usually the Other category for the weapons, it seemed, or Even Heavier and Even Stronger, or both like with Crossbows), Slashing is crits(and high Hit?), and Sidearms is gimmicks. For Lances, it seemed like Javelins was range, Piercing was General(/High Hit?) and Polearms was Effective/Raw Damage. Axes had Hacking for General/Low Weight(?), Throwing for Range, and Bludgeoning for Raw Damage/Effective. Anima Magic had Wind Magic for Speed/High Hit, Lightning for Raw Damage/Crit, and Fire for General. Light Magic had Holy for General/Raw Damage, Judgement for Effective Damage, and Wards for Defense(Wards really suck right now, though, I mean seriously, unless you're making some sort of weird uber-tough build with Monks that isn't already immune to all damage). Dark Magic had Dread for damage, Ancient for Status effects, and Druid for Effective(apparently). Bows had Recurve Bows for General/Speed, Longbows for Range/Effective, and Crossbows for Flier Death, Accuracy, and Self-Defense.
But Crossbows, for example, suck for Self-Defense because of how much they reduce your speed by, meaning you'll be doubled and take more damage anyway. Their weights are just so tremendous that their damage doesn't really make up for it, not when you can't add your Strength. The Nature Spirits in v1.20, and the generally high Con of people anyway, made Wind largely redundant, and Wards just plain suck. Judgement was extremely over-specialized in many ways, and the Raw Damage of the two weapon categories that were supposed to have higher damage in general than Swords, pale in comparison to Crushing. Pilums make Javelins almost completely redundant save for Speed-pumping spear wielders, or ones with low Strength, and Thrusting seemed better than Slashing in almost every way, for a lot of the tiers(for 1.20, at least).
Also, how was Physical Training going from Troubadour to Mage Knight supposed to work, might we ask?
Post by: birdy51 on July 07, 2014, 06:37:01 pm
Shamans were never meant to be fragile speedsters, but glass cannons. I think that the new Ancient Gamble solidifies that quite well than just giving free stats. Take something, give something I say.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 07, 2014, 06:38:29 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on July 07, 2014, 06:38:48 pm
Good to know about fencer sneaking, since before we figured it didn't allow for further movement and seemed rather weak. Good to see that we were more or less correct on the sneaking bit though. Makes their skills much less situational (than it already is, at least, but then again most GMs don't have fencers in their group).
Post by: Swordstar on July 07, 2014, 06:39:18 pm
Maybe Ancient Gamble should just add Str or 2x Str to crit?
Lol, that's even worse. Sorry, but that's just not very useful and once again runs the thing of either being basically useless or requiring dividing up growths simply for the sake of some extra crit. Especially since Shamans aren't usually focused on crit.
Post by: CecilHoshino on July 07, 2014, 06:55:14 pm
[W]hile it might be well and good to hold things over from Fire Emblem like favoritism and some classes being just plain better than others...it's not really fun, or fair, to the people who like other classes and want to play those. :/
When I answered regarding favouritism, I didn't mean I was trying to show favouritism, either, just that, because of the inherent favouritism from the game, the stats for the weapons, including swords, carried over from console to tabletop, and thus imbalance. To curb that favouritism, running these games has been helpful.
(Besides, if I were to play favouritse, it would be for Knights and Soldiers and their promotions :P )
For a lot of the complaints regarding weapons, hopefully these were addressed, somewhat, by 1.22, but others are going to get changed. The Pilums, for example, were meant for the slower Knights and Soldiers, to give them some option for doubling, but the 1-2 range did make this problematic. So taking your criticisms into consideration, in future versions, their damage will be lowered, and their range will be strictly 2. Likewise, Nature Spirits will be looking a lot different from its 1.20 counterpart in the future, more in line with Nature Spirits, Pious Veil, and Ancient Gamble in 1.22
Also, how was Physical Training going from Troubadour to Mage Knight supposed to work, might we ask?
What was supposed to be the case was that, when you started as Troubadour, you would pick a Physical Weapon to wield, and a subcategory to specialize in. Physical Training would then amp the Weapon Rank on promotion to Mage Knight. In future versions of the guidebook, since Knights also gained the ability to pick their weapon of choice, Troubadours were given that same option without it being a Class Ability. But as far as 1.20 goes, if you promoted to Mage Knight from Troubadour, you pretty much skipped Mage Knight's Physical Training. Because Mage Knight promoted from Troubadours and Mages, essentially, Troubadours got both benefits of Horseback and Physical Training early, while Mages had to wait until they chose to promote to Mage Knight.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 07, 2014, 07:04:47 pm
Post by: Solymr on July 08, 2014, 07:09:58 am
New poll up, polling some changes proposed on my own to try and keep some consistency between base and promotion.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on July 08, 2014, 12:32:49 pm
Quote
Bardwhich implies they can only perform for units that have already taken their turn, but later on in the book in the combat section, it says this:
The character is able to play a song for any ally adjacent to the user who has already used their action.
That character can act again. The character with this skill will effect all allies adjacent to them when
they activate their effect (up to 4 characters). This effect of aiding multiple allies works with the
standard Play ability, or with any currently equipped Performance. This skill overwrites Perform.
Dancer
The character is able to perform a dance for any ally adjacent to the user who has already used their
action. That character can act again. The character with this skill can effect up to 2 allies with it, but it
can be any ally within 2 spaces of the Dancer. This effect of aiding multiple allies works with the
standard Dance ability, or with any currently equipped Performance. This skill overwrites Perform.
Quote
Bards and Dancers have a very different way of affecting theWhich one is correct?
outcome of a battle. Rarely able to take part in combat itself, they
instead bolster their allies with various buffs, or hinder their
enemies with various ailments. The basic effect of the Bard and
the Dancer is to give allies to take a second turn during their
phase; allies who have already used a turn can take one again, and
allies who haven't already used a turn can take two this phase. No
ally can take more than 2 actions in a round, so any further
Performances or effects that grant an additional action are ignored.
Post by: CecilHoshino on July 08, 2014, 04:07:14 pm
When I was running a test game on RPOL, I conceded to allowing the party bard to Perform for players who hadn't taken a turn yet, moreso because of the inherently slow nature of RPOL posting and the patience required in Play-By-Post in general. That was when I slipped that rule into the Combat section. Later, the Bard and Dancer had their Perform rewritten with the proper ruling in mind. In general, in faster paced games, either on forums, in MapTools, or on an actual tabletop, Bards, Dancers, their promotions, and the Again staff cannot grant an additional turn to a unit who hasn't already taken an action yet.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on July 08, 2014, 08:57:04 pm
Post by: Haspen on July 09, 2014, 01:50:13 am
In general, in faster paced games, either on forums, in MapTools, or on an actual tabletop, Bards, Dancers, their promotions, and the Again staff cannot grant an additional turn to a unit who hasn't already taken an action yet.
/me glares at his players >:V
Post by: freeformschooler on July 09, 2014, 10:17:26 am
In general, in faster paced games, either on forums, in MapTools, or on an actual tabletop, Bards, Dancers, their promotions, and the Again staff cannot grant an additional turn to a unit who hasn't already taken an action yet.
/me glares at his players >:V
but we haven't preformed at all yet
right
right ce
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 09, 2014, 10:24:01 am
Post by: Varee on July 09, 2014, 10:44:59 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 09, 2014, 10:47:02 am
Cant two performer just walk round and keep buffing each other and give everyone infinite turn?
There are already provisions against that in the book.
Post by: Swordstar on July 09, 2014, 10:53:19 am
Cant two performer just walk round and keep buffing each other and give everyone infinite turn?
No one may have more than two turns in a phase. It's in the rulebook somewhere. Also there might be something about performers not being able to be performed but I dunno.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 09, 2014, 10:54:50 am
Cant two performer just walk round and keep buffing each other and give everyone infinite turn?
No one may have more than two turns in a phase. It's in the rulebook somewhere. Also there might be something about performers not being able to be performed but I dunno.
No, they can, you just can't perform for someone more than once per phase.
Post by: Varee on July 09, 2014, 10:56:39 am
Sheila has been preformed for twice. Once by each performer in the group.
Well that statement confuse me a bit but i found that it said no character may use more than two movement and two action in a turn
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 09, 2014, 11:07:16 am
Sheila has been preformed for twice. Once by each performer in the group.
Well that statement confuse me a bit but i found that it said no character may use more than two movement and two action in a turn
That was on two separate occasions.
Post by: Solymr on July 10, 2014, 01:05:28 pm
Next thing is Rider trainee promotions.
Post by: Swordstar on July 10, 2014, 01:25:48 pm
So, right. Sages in 1.2 get subcategory Anima (A) and subcategory Staff (B). Which is weird, because every other class with two weapons has both subcategories as A. Is there a reason that Sages don't get that?
Other question is Assassin weapon profs. If I'm reading it right, Assassins get either S rank Bows, or S rank Swords. And that's all they get. Which means they lose a proficiency? Since they used to have bows and swords? If I'm misreading this, please clarify, but that seems to be how it is and that seems... odd.
Post by: darkpaladin109 on July 10, 2014, 01:56:11 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on July 10, 2014, 08:04:33 pm
Post by: Swordstar on July 10, 2014, 08:24:31 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on July 10, 2014, 08:30:58 pm
Post by: Swordstar on July 10, 2014, 08:39:06 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 10, 2014, 08:46:07 pm
You people are too obsessed with Trainee weapon proficiencies. It's not all about the weapon they use, guys! Otherwise we would only need Archer, Swordsman, Axeman, Spearman, Staffman, and Magic X, Y, and Z trainees. >:(
Post by: Xanmyral on July 10, 2014, 09:56:07 pm
Post by: CecilHoshino on July 11, 2014, 12:34:02 am
Question for Cecil!
So, right. Sages in 1.2 get subcategory Anima (A) and subcategory Staff (B). Which is weird, because every other class with two weapons has both subcategories as A. Is there a reason that Sages don't get that?
Put simply, oversight. When I made the upgrade from 1.2 to 1.22, that was one of things that was noticed and fixed.
Other question is Assassin weapon profs. If I'm reading it right, Assassins get either S rank Bows, or S rank Swords. And that's all they get. Which means they lose a proficiency? Since they used to have bows and swords? If I'm misreading this, please clarify, but that seems to be how it is and that seems... odd.
To preface, 1.2 and 1.22 are both still dreadfully unfinished, and I apologize for it and appreciate you're all still experimenting with it despite that.
Now, when I drafted up the Assassin's Weapon Ranks, I kept them at the S for one or the other to further differentiate them from the Master Spy. Give the MS something of their own, a bonus to their weaponry that the Assassin didn't have. Typical Specialist vs Generalist dynamic. Let's say the Assassin was a Thief Trainee who specialized in Sidearms. When they reached Assassin, they'd have an S Rank in Sidearms, a B Rank in Swords, and a D Rank in Bows, compared to that same Thief having an A in Sidearms, A in Crossbows, and a C in both Swords and Bows. Master Spies would have more options, while Assassins would have the highest end weaponry of a particular style.
Trainees, on the other hand, did drop a Weapon Rank on promotion. Priest Trainees would lose Staff if they promoted to Monk/Nun, and Rider would lose Lance if they promoted to Nomad/Bow Knight. But this was something I didn't think to put down in the book itself, and it resulted in a lot of confusion. Again, I'm sorry. In the upcoming 1.3 (or 2.0, whichever we want to slice it), that'll definitely be something marked for Trainees and Spies.
Post by: Haspen on July 11, 2014, 08:59:34 am
(http://i.imgur.com/R7Ut46E.png)
Post by: Solymr on July 11, 2014, 09:15:44 am
Post by: Xanmyral on July 11, 2014, 09:22:47 am
Post by: Solymr on July 11, 2014, 02:45:05 pm
Btw in v1.22 Sages still have A and B ranks? :v
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on July 11, 2014, 06:36:28 pm
Post by: Varee on July 11, 2014, 07:38:26 pm
Before I vote, a question. What will this do to Soldiers? Will they still be able to go Wyvern Rider, or will they only have two promotion paths, or what?
I assume it mean they can pick between horse and go the current path or wywern and go wywern path
Post by: Xanmyral on July 11, 2014, 07:41:50 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 11, 2014, 09:18:18 pm
I like it. My only comment would be maybe widening the vertical roads a bit, they're a lot narrower than the horizontal ones.
I think that's partially because it's still not square. Even though for a TankEF we wouldn't use the same sprites normal FEF does, and therefore there's no point in them being rectangular.
>:[
Post by: Xanmyral on July 11, 2014, 09:31:17 pm
Post by: Propman on July 12, 2014, 03:57:11 am
Post by: Solymr on July 12, 2014, 05:26:25 am
Before I vote, a question. What will this do to Soldiers? Will they still be able to go Wyvern Rider, or will they only have two promotion paths, or what?Wyvern Riders can promote from Soldier trainees or Rider trainees. Soldier trainee promotions are unaffected.
Also question for Cecil: the dances that don't have dance% on their description are meant to hit every time?
Post by: Haspen on July 12, 2014, 10:26:20 am
I think that's partially because it's still not square. Even though for a TankEF we wouldn't use the same sprites normal FEF does, and therefore there's no point in them being rectangular.
>:[
It's not that I'm using rectangular sprites; Y is stretched 8 pixels extra to accomodate for 8 pixel high name under the sprite :P
And I will be splice-glueing Advance Wars icons for TankEF, so these won't be a problem.
Post by: CecilHoshino on July 12, 2014, 03:14:57 pm
Also question for Cecil: the dances that don't have dance% on their description are meant to hit every time?
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time, it works every time.
(Yes, any dance without a Dance% in their description auto-hit)
Post by: darkpaladin109 on July 12, 2014, 03:35:38 pm
It'd be good if you recolor the sprites then, cause the colors will propably clash with the map, due to how bright they are, in comparison to typical FE colors.I think that's partially because it's still not square. Even though for a TankEF we wouldn't use the same sprites normal FEF does, and therefore there's no point in them being rectangular.
>:[
It's not that I'm using rectangular sprites; Y is stretched 8 pixels extra to accomodate for 8 pixel high name under the sprite :P
And I will be splice-glueing Advance Wars icons for TankEF, so these won't be a problem.
Post by: Furtuka on July 12, 2014, 03:37:57 pm
You better at least recolor the damn sprites then, cause the colors will clash too much with the map, I think.I think that's partially because it's still not square. Even though for a TankEF we wouldn't use the same sprites normal FEF does, and therefore there's no point in them being rectangular.
>:[
It's not that I'm using rectangular sprites; Y is stretched 8 pixels extra to accomodate for 8 pixel high name under the sprite :P
And I will be splice-glueing Advance Wars icons for TankEF, so these won't be a problem.
O_o what's with the angry tone here
Post by: Solymr on July 13, 2014, 03:54:56 pm
Post by: darkpaladin109 on July 13, 2014, 03:59:02 pm
Post by: Solymr on July 13, 2014, 04:03:20 pm
Post by: Sirus on July 13, 2014, 04:06:51 pm
Post by: Solymr on July 13, 2014, 04:08:02 pm
Post by: Sirus on July 13, 2014, 04:08:35 pm
Post by: darkpaladin109 on July 13, 2014, 05:37:12 pm
Post by: Propman on July 13, 2014, 06:13:57 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/i5mdTki.png) (http://i.imgur.com/WGmgZIr.png) (http://i.imgur.com/Ojc6LfX.png[img] [img]http://i.imgur.com/ca4NNE2.png) (http://i.imgur.com/ca4NNE2.png) (http://i.imgur.com/cMfzUs7.png)
As can be seen, tanks look just fine using the FE pallets, and recoloring the Advance Wars sprites will be trivial. Just remember to look at both Advance Wars' and Day of Ruins' sprites, as they each have different sets of tank sprites that could be used to represent different unit types.
Post by: Solymr on July 15, 2014, 06:52:05 am
Ps: nice tanks
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 15, 2014, 11:52:15 am
*gently taps No option*
Post by: Solymr on July 15, 2014, 12:26:05 pm
This unit gets +5 DAM and +1 RES vs units with Levitation.
Post by: Sirus on July 15, 2014, 12:27:33 pm
I mean, it fits what pegasus riders are usually supposed to do. But that's a huge boost.
Post by: Solymr on July 15, 2014, 12:28:20 pm
Post by: Swordstar on July 15, 2014, 12:30:42 pm
Post by: Solymr on July 15, 2014, 12:35:20 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 15, 2014, 01:13:50 pm
But I think that'd be a good alternative.
Post by: Swordstar on July 15, 2014, 01:15:43 pm
Some form of mount: Cav, Wyvern, Peg, Troub, Nomad
Post by: Sirus on July 15, 2014, 01:21:08 pm
Levitation: Priest, Monk, Mage, ShamanWouldn't units promoting from those classes also have Levitation/Mounted?
Some form of mount: Cav, Wyvern, Peg, Troub, Nomad
Post by: Swordstar on July 15, 2014, 01:30:59 pm
Mounted: Both wyvern promos, both peg promos, mage knight, duke knight, paladin, both nomad promos, Great Knight,
Levitation: saint, bishop, holy guard, both shaman, sage
Post by: Sirus on July 15, 2014, 01:50:02 pm
Post by: CecilHoshino on July 15, 2014, 04:19:25 pm
Cecil, can classes that use staves counterattack with any weapons they might have even if they used their staff to heal?
Right now, no they cannot, in the interest of fairness to Bow users (without the Sidearm ability). However, this is a rule that I'd like your input on, as, in the upcoming book update, there will be a lot of rule clarifications, including possible Staff counter attacks. Right now, I'm looking at several options.
- No Counters - Staffs are Equipped items, and do not allow for counter attacks.
- Yes Counters - Staffs are Equipped items, but if attacked, the staff user can counter with the first legal weapon in their equipment list (Say, if a Bishop was equipped with a Mend, then was carrying an Elfire and then a Shine tome, they'd counter with the Shine). Since the countering weapon wouldn't be "equipped," though, equip effects like Stat or Parameter bonuses don't take effect.
- The FE6 Method - Staffs are more like Items rather than Weapons, and aren't technically equipped, so they'll be entering battle with their equipped tome anyway (this allowed for Niime to become the best Staff bot in the game by equipping Apocalypse for the +5 MAG bonus)
- The FE10 Method - Staffs are USED for the Counter Attack; they are a 0 Might weapon with super high Crit, and the user's Strength is compared to the enemy's Defense/one half the enemy's defense
Note the same would apply for Performances (Lyrics, Instruments, Songs), only, in the FE10 Method, replacing "whacking with a staff" with "boxing/kickboxing."
Post by: Solymr on July 15, 2014, 04:29:43 pm
Anyways, I think Haspen made a rule that staff users would autoequip an available weapon for combat, so that would be the Yes counter option.
Post by: Haspen on July 15, 2014, 04:32:50 pm
Anyways, I think Haspen made a rule that staff users would autoequip an available weapon for combat, so that would be the Yes counter option.
Ye v:
Post by: Taricus on July 15, 2014, 04:34:23 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on July 15, 2014, 04:38:07 pm
Post by: Sirus on July 15, 2014, 06:20:04 pm
As someone who is running a healbot in two campaigns (though Sadie will be getting weapons on class-up :P) I actually prefer the 'no' option for countering.but y
I like Haspen's method, personally.
Post by: birdy51 on July 15, 2014, 07:05:17 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on July 15, 2014, 09:06:31 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 15, 2014, 10:07:40 pm
Post by: Sirus on July 16, 2014, 12:28:24 am
@Sirus: Because I think it's retarded to waste a healing staff's quality on doing zero damage - most healers aren't going to have high STR, and if an enemy is hitting in melee range in the first place it's likely someone that has at least a measure of DEF. So, yeah, let's just blow that valuable Mend staff's charges by breaking it on Alexander's face for example, shall we? :PWait, who said anything about using the staff as a weapon? ???
Oh, whatever. Most running games seem to follow Haspen's rule in this regard, so I guess I'm not overly bothered by it.
In non-FEF discussion, does anyone know a way to load a save file in Fire Emblem: Awakening without closing and restarting the entire game? I've been having a lot of difficulty keeping people from dying and having to shut the whole thing down to restart a map frustrates me to no end >:[
these games need quicksave/load functions, seriously
Post by: Furtuka on July 16, 2014, 12:29:29 am
Post by: Xanmyral on July 16, 2014, 12:32:31 am
As you can see, some are sorely underused while others are overused to such a degree that they lose the flair they're suppose to have: excitement at the rare item of power. After all, it pushes you to new heights and strengths, it should be a big deal. Some of them are so prevalent in classes however that they almost because boring.
I propose that we try to balance these out a bit, so as to avoid over-saturation to a specific one or another to try and preserve the effect they're suppose to carry. The easiest way I see to accomplish this would be the creation of another promotion item, one meant for holy classes and the like. This item would be the promotion item for Bishops, Saints, Holy Guards, Crusaders, and possibly Paladins.
Spoiler: Doing so would drop the numbers as such: (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Making these changes would result in such: (click to show/hide)
Thanks to Blade for talking this out with me.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 16, 2014, 12:35:13 am
@Sirus: Because I think it's retarded to waste a healing staff's quality on doing zero damage - most healers aren't going to have high STR, and if an enemy is hitting in melee range in the first place it's likely someone that has at least a measure of DEF. So, yeah, let's just blow that valuable Mend staff's charges by breaking it on Alexander's face for example, shall we? :PWait, who said anything about using the staff as a weapon? ???
Oh, whatever. Most running games seem to follow Haspen's rule in this regard, so I guess I'm not overly bothered by it.
In non-FEF discussion, does anyone know a way to load a save file in Fire Emblem: Awakening without closing and restarting the entire game? I've been having a lot of difficulty keeping people from dying and having to shut the whole thing down to restart a map frustrates me to no end >:[
these games need quicksave/load functions, seriously
You could do what I do, and do the suspend/quicksave/whatever thing, and then continue your game instead of loading the suspend file.
Also, Cecil, what do you think of the FE9/10 system of hitting level 20 as a base class and then getting 100 EXP would promote you? Is this something that should be in this system? I think it'd be a good idea, personally.
Post by: Haspen on July 16, 2014, 02:51:37 am
Holy Seal, Sacred Ring, Pious Mark, Sacred Orb, Holy Cloth, Mark of the Faith...
Post by: F.O.E. on July 16, 2014, 03:11:44 am
In non-FEF discussion, does anyone know a way to load a save file in Fire Emblem: Awakening without closing and restarting the entire game? I've been having a lot of difficulty keeping people from dying and having to shut the whole thing down to restart a map frustrates me to no end >:[
these games need quicksave/load functions, seriously
L+R+START
Post by: Tiruin on July 16, 2014, 03:33:28 am
Only if L+R+Select is done first or you've saved the game state prior to doing this.In non-FEF discussion, does anyone know a way to load a save file in Fire Emblem: Awakening without closing and restarting the entire game? I've been having a lot of difficulty keeping people from dying and having to shut the whole thing down to restart a map frustrates me to no end >:[
these games need quicksave/load functions, seriously
L+R+START
Sorry Sirus ._.
Post by: darkpaladin109 on July 16, 2014, 07:30:38 am
-snip-I don't think Paladins should switch to the new holy class promotion item, mainly because FE Paladins are pretty much just mounted units with a good selection of available weaponry, not the holy warrior kind of Paladins seen in DnD and pretty much every other kind of Paladin. That would, however, be perfect for Crusaders, if you haven't thought of that yet.
On other things, it still seems that there's a lot of classes that'll promote with a Knight's Crest. I say what we should do is make Soldiers promote to Sentinels via Hero Crest, since I don't really see a Knight Crest being fitting for that, really.
Post by: CecilHoshino on July 16, 2014, 01:31:02 pm
Also, Cecil, what do you think of the FE9/10 system of hitting level 20 as a base class and then getting 100 EXP would promote you? Is this something that should be in this system? I think it'd be a good idea, personally.
I'm not really for it in the context of the tabletop, or, if I were to include it, it wouldn't be 100 EXP. Maybe 200. Just so that Promotion Items still have a purpose.
Post by: Haspen on July 16, 2014, 01:34:15 pm
It's been brought to my attention that my 1.20 handbook link has expired due to inactivity and thus lots of people cannot grab it. I will rehost and put the link here.
Whoever uses my link as their Handbook source, should update as well v:
New link: https://www.sendspace.com/file/cozfv9
Post by: Solymr on July 17, 2014, 11:37:01 am
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 17, 2014, 12:09:43 pm
I'm not entirely sure what else should be used, however. Possibly something relating to being so high they can get out of range, but...i dunno.
Post by: Solymr on July 17, 2014, 12:12:51 pm
>Pegasus Riders have been magekillers in every game
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 17, 2014, 12:14:26 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 17, 2014, 12:18:15 pm
They've had high resistance. Not the same. It doesn't fit the fluff, in my mind, because nowhere have ai read that pegasus riders were used by armies to fight mages.
High Resistance. Attacks target DEF, not RES.
Sounds like a mage fighter to me.
Post by: Lucus Casius on July 17, 2014, 12:51:30 pm
Being good at fighting mages and claiming that is the sole intent of the class are two very different things.
Post by: Solymr on July 17, 2014, 12:56:33 pm
Post by: Lucus Casius on July 17, 2014, 01:00:40 pm
Post by: Solymr on July 17, 2014, 01:11:32 pm
Post by: Haspen on July 17, 2014, 01:12:53 pm
Why :v
Why you're making anti-magic riders outta flying stretchers? v:
Post by: Sirus on July 17, 2014, 01:15:27 pm
You need SOME sort of anti-magic class. What else is there? :PWhy :v
Why you're making anti-magic riders outta flying stretchers? v:
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 17, 2014, 01:16:19 pm
Why :v
Why you're making anti-magic riders outta flying stretchers? v:
As someone who barely, if ever used the rescue ability in the games, I gotta say I far more often used Pegasus units as mage killers than literally anything else.
Post by: Haspen on July 17, 2014, 01:18:01 pm
You need SOME sort of anti-magic class. What else is there? :PWhy :v
Why you're making anti-magic riders outta flying stretchers? v:
Anything with lots of STR and SPD to double-wham them? :P
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 17, 2014, 01:19:09 pm
You need SOME sort of anti-magic class. What else is there? :PWhy :v
Why you're making anti-magic riders outta flying stretchers? v:
Anything with lots of STR and SPD to double-wham them? :P
*Me points at Pegasus units, since they fit that bill right there*
Post by: Haspen on July 17, 2014, 01:21:56 pm
You need SOME sort of anti-magic class. What else is there? :P
Anything with lots of STR and SPD to double-wham them? :P
*Me points at Pegasus units, since they fit that bill right there*
>pegasus riders
>high STR
plz bloodbro, don't make me laugh v:
I have yet to see a FE game with a pegasus rider of STR higher than 15. Seyena is from FEF so doesn't count :P
Post by: Xanmyral on July 17, 2014, 08:11:40 pm
You need SOME sort of anti-magic class. What else is there? :P
Fencers and their ilk. One even has "Mage Hunter" as the name of their skill.
Post by: Taricus on July 17, 2014, 08:16:19 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 17, 2014, 11:55:56 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 18, 2014, 12:01:20 am
If we hadn't already decided against it, I'd suggest Inquisitor as a created class for a true mage-hunter.
We're sticking with only classes we already have.
For now.
Post by: Xanmyral on July 18, 2014, 12:05:38 am
However, I'm split between a new one because that may throw things off, or retooling a fencer promote but then we'd be down a magic-melee class.
Post by: Solymr on July 19, 2014, 05:49:26 am
Now to decide what is Anti-magic.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 19, 2014, 09:06:50 am
Post by: Solymr on July 19, 2014, 10:36:28 am
Post by: Sirus on July 19, 2014, 10:41:24 am
What are other valid options like 5 Dam and 1 Res?Soldiers have +5 Dam and +1 DEF when fighting mounted units, so this makes sense to me.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 19, 2014, 11:15:09 am
Okay, so, there's 16 total classes with mounted, and... 11 with Levitation it looks like.What are other valid options like 5 Dam and 1 Res?Soldiers have +5 Dam and +1 DEF when fighting mounted units, so this makes sense to me.
So, I guess that's fair, come to think of it. Huh. I expected Levitation to be more ubiquitous.
Post by: Swordstar on July 19, 2014, 02:09:36 pm
Post by: Sirus on July 19, 2014, 02:10:19 pm
Post by: Solymr on July 19, 2014, 02:31:54 pm
Post by: Swordstar on July 19, 2014, 02:37:46 pm
Post by: Sirus on July 19, 2014, 02:38:58 pm
Oh, also, since I missed, are pegs getting cloudwalking+anti-mag or just anti-mag? Cause if it's both, that's another argument towards +3 dam since don't want to overload, etc. Or something. Words....actually a very good question. If they get both then anti-magic can afford to be slightly weaker IMHO.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 19, 2014, 02:42:31 pm
Can we reset the poll?
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 19, 2014, 03:00:00 pm
So that's another argument towards the bonus damage being lower. Plus, pegasus knights tend to be really fast, while soldiers usually aren't so fast, so the flat extra damage is more powerful in the hands of pegasus risers, whom are more likely to double.
Post by: Solymr on July 19, 2014, 03:01:17 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 19, 2014, 03:03:28 pm
but move my vote from 5 DAM to 3.
Post by: Sirus on July 19, 2014, 03:55:43 pm
Post by: Haspen on July 19, 2014, 04:54:46 pm
Also voting for 3dam1res
Same here; magical guys are often more squishy than horseback units when it comes to DEF (and HP) v:
Post by: Solymr on July 20, 2014, 05:23:56 am
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 20, 2014, 11:01:19 am
Actually, I think Levitation and Horseback can't stack. I remember us determining that some time ago.
but move my vote from 5 DAM to 3.
Yes, but they still gave the Levitation skill, which is what Anti-Magic affects, compared to Anti-Cavalry, which affects Mounted units; if they're dismounted it doesn't work.
Post by: Swordstar on July 20, 2014, 12:34:18 pm
Post by: Solymr on July 20, 2014, 01:08:12 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on July 20, 2014, 01:47:54 pm
Post by: Solymr on July 20, 2014, 01:49:49 pm
Imbue Arrow is the part where you use the stats of weapon with less MT and target the weaker defensive stat of the enemy :V
Post by: Swordstar on July 20, 2014, 01:56:06 pm
Quote
The character with this skill must have a Bow and Anima Tome in their inventory, and one of them must be equipped. This technique drains the quality of both the bow and the tome, but it fires an attack that deals (ATK of Weaker Weapon), and targets the weaker of the enemy's DEF or RES. If you miss, one of the following effects still occur:
Then it lists the effects. So no, Imbue Arrow is both parts.
Post by: Solymr on July 21, 2014, 08:21:36 am
Yes or no first and then changes or no changes.
Post by: Solymr on July 25, 2014, 03:44:49 pm
I put a first draft of the poll, likely to change.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 25, 2014, 03:47:43 pm
Post by: Solymr on July 26, 2014, 02:21:36 am
Post by: Sirus on July 26, 2014, 02:25:31 am
Post by: Solymr on July 26, 2014, 02:45:43 am
Post by: Solymr on July 30, 2014, 05:15:53 am
Next poll up.
Also how about giving some numbers to Stillness and Provoke?
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 30, 2014, 11:48:13 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 30, 2014, 12:03:22 pm
I give them a 50/50 chance to activate with any given enemy in range.
Edit: Well, the FE wiki was unhelpful. It doesn't give hard numbers to either skill (or shade, which is a weaker version of stillness, apparently.)
Post by: Swordstar on July 30, 2014, 12:59:57 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 30, 2014, 01:03:01 pm
Provoke and Shade are much cheaper, and since Provoke and Stillness in the book are free skills, not cost skills, I think we shouldn't have it always re-direct enemy attacks.
Post by: Swordstar on July 30, 2014, 01:14:11 pm
Post by: Solymr on July 30, 2014, 01:55:35 pm
Post by: Rolepgeek on July 30, 2014, 04:21:12 pm
Stillness is the same way; if you've been killing a friend of their's every turn, and the only guy near you is a healer or something? He's coming for your throat. If you're a weaselly little Spy who hasn't managed to do much more than annoy people? Meh, you're not important.
Maybe extreme or bad examples, but I think it gets the point across.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 30, 2014, 04:24:44 pm
And neither skill has the word most in the description. Provoke says you are more likely to be attacked, and Stillness says you are much less likely to be attacked.
I think a 50/50 shot of forcing/preventing attacks on the character if other targets are present is reasonable.
Post by: Swordstar on July 30, 2014, 04:28:25 pm
Normal enemy AI has some of that in it already. A fighter is more likely to attack a lancer user than a sword user for instance. Stillness and provoke need to counteract that to an extent.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 30, 2014, 04:32:46 pm
Post by: Solymr on August 01, 2014, 04:00:26 pm
Next poll up, but can change soon.
Post by: Solymr on August 02, 2014, 12:54:10 pm
Do we use the spell base list of v1.20 or v1.22?
Do we change any of the spells available?
Do we change the HP/level of any spell?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 02, 2014, 07:14:02 pm
1. I changed the spell list slightly, primarily by removing Physic from each list.
2. I changed the HP cost for Heal to 6, and Mend to 12. Not unreasonable, but certainly not the no-cost nonsense from before.
3. The Warp/Rescue has been changed to Warp only, so these classes can't drop a unit into enemy territory, and pull them out again next turn or whenever for a piddly 12 HP.
Please review at your leisure.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Edit: Fixed Formatting, adjusted lists so they all had the same number of spells.
Post by: Xanmyral on August 02, 2014, 07:43:00 pm
Next thing will be Memory Magic:
-I suggest starting with the 1.22 base.
-I feel the spells are alright as they are using the prior base.
-The costs should probably be increased on a few.
Post by: Solymr on August 03, 2014, 03:15:11 pm
Btw blade no lvl 20 spells in your list?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 03, 2014, 03:20:12 pm
Alright, that's 50/50 for Stillness and Provoke. Now gonna start the first poll of Memory Magic.
Btw blade no lvl 20 spells in your list?
At level 20 they can pick any one spell on the list.
I suppose we could put Physic and some other option on there, but is that necessary?
Post by: Solymr on August 03, 2014, 03:23:42 pm
Post by: Solymr on August 06, 2014, 06:59:22 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 06, 2014, 08:00:56 am
Sage and Lore Master have access to both Warp and Rescue. We should restrict it to one or the other.
Post by: Haspen on August 06, 2014, 08:01:45 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 06, 2014, 08:06:18 am
Sage gets Warp and Lore Master gets Rescue :P
This works for me. At least this way infinite drop trooper nonsense requires two casters.
Post by: Solymr on August 06, 2014, 08:28:32 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 06, 2014, 08:37:09 am
Would you agree to Lore Master getting Physic? :v
Please no.
Post by: Haspen on August 06, 2014, 08:42:00 am
Would you agree to Lore Master getting Physic? :v
Of course.
Duh.
Post by: CrimsonEon on August 06, 2014, 08:56:24 am
Would you agree to Lore Master getting Physic? :v
Hell no.
Nyet.
I'm with the crowd on this one.
Post by: Solymr on August 06, 2014, 09:12:53 am
Glad to hear.Would you agree to Lore Master getting Physic? :v
Hell yes.
Duh.
I'm with the crowd on this one.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 06, 2014, 09:22:18 am
Post by: Haspen on August 06, 2014, 09:45:29 am
Post by: Solymr on August 07, 2014, 06:30:14 am
For the record we use v1.22 list as base.
Post by: CecilHoshino on August 07, 2014, 07:59:13 pm
Cecil here, sorry I've been quiet lately, just been pretty busy with a part time job taking up the rest of my summer, before heading back to university in the fall. So I haven't been around to answer questions, contribute to the discussion, or chime in on the IRC channel.
However, there was another reason for my radio silence: I am continuing work on Version 1.3. There's still plenty of work to go, including some skill adjustments for the promoted classes, stat adjustments on the weapons, and clarifications in the combat section. Lots and lots of clarification.
Hopefully, Version 1.3 should be finished by August 16th, end of the month at the latest.
But there WAS one element that I'd actually like your input on: as you noticed, Anima is the only weapon category that has no class with a natural S rank in it. This came from my adherence to the 1 S, 2 A, 3 B rule, where classes who used only a single weapon in their promoted class had the advantage of top tier equipment, while classes with two or three weapons had more general options. Also, because Sages traditionally used Magic and Staves, that resulted in them being one of the 2 A classes.
After we come to a conclusion on Physic for Lore Master or no, I'd actually like to know which you would prefer:
-Sages continue to have A in Anima and Staves, and there are no classes that naturally have an S in Anima
-Sages have an S in Anima, but do not gain a rank in Staves
-Mages no longer promote to Mage Knight (leaving it a Troubadour exclusive with maybe a name change to Templar), and instead promote to a new class, say, Wizard, who has the S Rank Anima, while Sages still use Anima and Staves
Post by: Lucus Casius on August 07, 2014, 08:07:15 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 07, 2014, 08:12:28 pm
1. Increase magic weapon MT. Increases damage output on characters who didn't bother with MAG progression to useful levels. As a downside, if a character with good magic got ahold of one, it'd be pretty beefy...
2. Allow for magic weapons to use 1/2 or 1/3 STR if that is higher than their MAG.
3. Go the Radiant Dawn/GBA way and have them simply use STR and continue to target RES. It makes MAG on a physical fighter less viable... But is that a real big deal?
snip
Wicked.
I like the third option also.
Post by: Xanmyral on August 07, 2014, 08:21:08 pm
Whether to put them in and where to stick 'em is the question though.
Ooh, I'd be very interested in checking out that 1.3.
Also, I'd put my vote in the third route: a number of classes have prestige class specific options, but the troubadour is one of the few that don't. I don't think much would be amiss to adding another prestige class to allow for something like this, and it makes the mage follow the monk and shaman's path of prestige pretty consistently.
Post by: Sirus on August 08, 2014, 01:21:11 am
Why add another new class? Just give Sages their S-rank and be done with it.
Post by: Haspen on August 08, 2014, 02:18:01 am
Why add another new class? Just give Sages their S-rank and be done with it.
Omg Sirus you just can't have a mang ruin his perfectly thought off personal order of things just to fix something! Think of the OCD! :P
Post by: Sirus on August 08, 2014, 02:22:50 am
...whut?
Omg Sirus you just can't have a mang ruin his perfectly thought off personal order of things just to fix something! Think of the OCD! :P
Post by: Solymr on August 08, 2014, 04:45:42 am
Remember how that went? :v
Post by: CecilHoshino on August 08, 2014, 02:10:57 pm
Oi remember the talk we had a while ago about making a new promotion for sages?
Remember how that went? :v
I'm assuming some vehement no's?
Again, sorry if I derailed the poll schedule, but I'd just like to know the general feeling about S Rank Anima use before I can call 1.3 finalized.
Post by: Solymr on August 08, 2014, 02:28:35 pm
Post by: birdy51 on August 08, 2014, 02:50:50 pm
Post by: darkpaladin109 on August 08, 2014, 02:58:08 pm
Wizard sounds like a bit of an odd title though... How about Archmage, or something like that?
Post by: Haspen on August 08, 2014, 03:07:34 pm
Wizard sounds like a bit of an odd title though... How about Archmage, or something like that?
Considering they would be specialists in Anima magic, I approve :V
Post by: Tiruin on August 08, 2014, 03:50:36 pm
Post by: Parsely on August 08, 2014, 05:55:14 pm
Quote from: OP
Miracle: if activated the character is left at 1 HP. Can't activate at 1 HP.The wording here is significantly different than that shown in the handbook.
Quote from: Handbook
Miracle: If an attack against you would reduce you to 0 HP, there is a Luck% chance that it will only take away half your current healthRem brought it up in IRC so I thought I should say somefin.
Post by: Solymr on August 08, 2014, 06:16:28 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 08, 2014, 06:31:44 pm
Quote from: OPMiracle: if activated the character is left at 1 HP. Can't activate at 1 HP.The wording here is significantly different than that shown in the handbook.Quote from: HandbookMiracle: If an attack against you would reduce you to 0 HP, there is a Luck% chance that it will only take away half your current healthRem brought it up in IRC so I thought I should say somefin.
The reason for this is that the previous trigger rate capped at 30%, and it now caps at 60%. The trigger rate is based on Luckx2, so if a character dumps significant growth into Luck, they can conceivably only even have a chance of being killed 40% of the time.
This was considered unsporting, hence the change.
Post by: Swordstar on August 08, 2014, 11:28:58 pm
Miracle: If an attack against you would reduce you to 0 HP, there is a 2*Luck% chance that it will leave you with 1 HP. Can't activate at 1 HP.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 09, 2014, 06:43:22 am
Post by: Solymr on August 09, 2014, 08:18:29 am
I should put a common sense clause at the start: "anyone who tries to abuse this ruleset against common sense shall receive a good spanking".
Post by: Parsely on August 09, 2014, 09:48:50 am
Yeah what Swordstar said, that's all I meant.Quote from: OPMiracle: if activated the character is left at 1 HP. Can't activate at 1 HP.The wording here is significantly different than that shown in the handbook.Quote from: HandbookMiracle: If an attack against you would reduce you to 0 HP, there is a Luck% chance that it will only take away half your current healthRem brought it up in IRC so I thought I should say somefin.
The reason for this is that the previous trigger rate capped at 30%, and it now caps at 60%. The trigger rate is based on Luckx2, so if a character dumps significant growth into Luck, they can conceivably only even have a chance of being killed 40% of the time.
This was considered unsporting, hence the change.
Post by: Furtuka on August 10, 2014, 06:39:17 pm
Post by: Sirus on August 10, 2014, 06:51:53 pm
Post by: CecilHoshino on August 10, 2014, 09:50:07 pm
Post by: Sirus on August 10, 2014, 09:52:23 pm
So I got talked into making a FEF tvtropes page. So yeah. No tropes added yet, just the bare bones skeleton so far. Go crazy people. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Roleplay/FireEmblemOnForums)Also, you should probably add this thread to the TVTropes page. Include a note such as "Not a game thread, but a discussion for ongoing rules alteration and balancing"
Post by: Furtuka on August 10, 2014, 10:19:23 pm
Wh-what? Why? What? What for you bury me in the cold, cold ground?
._. if this is about the credit for the rulebook I wasn't sure what to call you sorry. I'll go fix that.
Post by: Haspen on August 11, 2014, 03:27:08 am
Post by: Solymr on August 11, 2014, 06:42:30 am
Post by: Solymr on August 11, 2014, 01:04:29 pm
Go vote and nope Lore Masters don't get Physic nope.
Post by: Sirus on August 11, 2014, 01:05:41 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 11, 2014, 01:06:33 pm
I just realized that there's a Characters section on the trope page. It will be the longest character list ever :DTrouble is only FEF1 has any of the characters listed.
Post by: CrimsonEon on August 11, 2014, 01:06:55 pm
Post by: Sirus on August 11, 2014, 01:12:32 pm
The page has been up for less than a day, give it time.I just realized that there's a Characters section on the trope page. It will be the longest character list ever :DTrouble is only FEF1 has any of the characters listed.
We need as much help as possible to file out the tropes on them pages. Furt and I can only do so much so fast :V!Not a troper :/
Post by: CecilHoshino on August 11, 2014, 01:12:49 pm
._. if this is about the credit for the rulebook I wasn't sure what to call you sorry. I'll go fix that.
Nononononono, it's not about the credit or the rulebook at all, in fact, I'd much prefer NOT to be credited! That rulebook is so full of unsourced fanart that I haven't yet gotten around to settling that simple threads like this, shared between friends, is where I'd prefer to draw the line. Not to mention it's still making me blush
Post by: Furtuka on August 11, 2014, 01:15:09 pm
Post by: Sirus on August 11, 2014, 01:22:23 pm
Post by: Solymr on August 12, 2014, 02:28:03 pm
Post by: Solymr on August 15, 2014, 04:36:06 pm
What's next for Memory Magic, triple cost for healing spells?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 15, 2014, 05:39:28 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on August 15, 2014, 07:28:47 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 15, 2014, 08:56:12 pm
I propose that after Memory Magic, we tackle magic weapons/possible kinetic tomes.
Seconded.
Post by: Solymr on August 16, 2014, 02:19:33 pm
Option 1: 1 vote
Option 2: 4 votes
Option 3: 10 votes
Mo memory magic polls up.
Post by: Solymr on August 20, 2014, 06:55:37 am
First: the new handbook is called off, Cecil is still working on v1.3, but all we've talked here are now suggested changes for each GM to apply individually.
Second: any questions about FEF that you want to ask, but don't want to clutter in some game's OOC thread can be asked here.
Third: anyone who wants help with setting up a game or new system (mugs, numbers, tests) can get it here.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on August 23, 2014, 07:56:58 am
Post by: Sirus on August 23, 2014, 10:29:43 am
Post by: Solymr on August 24, 2014, 03:34:36 pm
Cecil, would you be up for this idea?
Post by: CecilHoshino on August 24, 2014, 10:00:51 pm
Speaking of the book, version 1.3 should go live some time this week.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 24, 2014, 10:03:42 pm
Post by: Solymr on August 25, 2014, 06:04:08 am
I'll give a week first, and if more people get interested I will extend it another week or two.
The elction of the winner will be by popular vote in the poll.
Post by: Varee on August 25, 2014, 06:25:37 am
Post by: Solymr on August 25, 2014, 06:33:21 am
(http://i.imgur.com/xlrFYrE.png)
(by dexexe1234)
Post by: Tiruin on August 25, 2014, 10:47:10 am
I would be ecstatic about the idea, and will happily feature any winning entry in my book with the artist's permission, complete with credit.I need a specific theme .-.
Speaking of the book, version 1.3 should go live some time this week.
Any ideas Cecil, on what themes are needed to be filled? :p
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 25, 2014, 01:18:15 pm
I'd suggest characters from FEFs.
Post by: Lucus Casius on August 25, 2014, 01:49:20 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/E7FUWmX.png)
ART!
Post by: Rolepgeek on August 25, 2014, 03:22:03 pm
Plus just any old FEF related-ish art which is cool can be thrown in somewhere too.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 28, 2014, 09:09:40 pm
Blossom
Free
A player with this skill can designate a 3rd preferred stat, and gains a minimum of 3 stats per level. The stat designated by Blossom has lowest priority. If the character promotes to a class that has the designated stat as a preferred stat already, they may redesignate.
So this gets back to what Blossom was meant to do- Buffering against few-stat levels.
We could keep the old-new Blossom around as well, since some people do like it, but we could change the name- possibly to Aptitude.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on August 28, 2014, 09:26:24 pm
Post by: Sirus on August 29, 2014, 01:23:54 am
Hmm. I do like this - both keeping Aptitude around and adding a new Blossom, I mean.+1
Post by: Lucus Casius on August 29, 2014, 02:24:32 am
Go for it.
Post by: Solymr on August 29, 2014, 06:27:53 am
Btw we still haven't got any submission for art :v
Post by: Tiruin on August 29, 2014, 06:29:07 am
Added the thing to the list.ART TAKES TIME D:<
Btw we still haven't got any submission for art :v
I am juggling art making here -_-
Post by: Solymr on August 29, 2014, 06:32:15 am
Post by: Sirus on August 29, 2014, 10:55:51 am
Post by: Parsely on August 29, 2014, 02:41:17 pm
We're also not a terribly arty group.:I
Post by: Sirus on August 29, 2014, 03:18:45 pm
We're also not a terribly arty group (certain folks aside). There won't be many submissions no matter how long this contest runs.Please pay attention, GUN :l
Post by: CecilHoshino on August 29, 2014, 04:32:17 pm
You can find the pdf here: http://www.mediafire.com/?v8r0s54gune7264
Making use of your wonderful work playtesting both 1.2 and 1.22 to their limits, version 1.3 incorporates many of the changes you suggested, as well as many of the clarity issues you recognized. The following is a list of all the major changes to the book, summarized (you can see the finger details in the guidebook proper), which includes...
Spoiler: Experience and Skills (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Trainee Classes (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: First Classes (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Promoted Class (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: New Mage Promotion (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Combat (click to show/hide)
This is still an ongoing project, so if you guys spot anything wrong, or if additions or adjustments horrifically break the game, keep on play testing and we'll eventually get to v2.0 :P
What to expect in v1.4:
- Continued balancing of class skills and weapon stats
- Gold values attached to weapons
- Weapon Section that details what the heck a Rukkard is, or why the heck White Lightning is effective vs Dragons
- Enemy Section to provide guidelines on enemy classes, stats, and skills
Post by: Parsely on August 29, 2014, 04:43:47 pm
:IWe're also not a terribly arty group (certain folks aside). There won't be many submissions no matter how long this contest runs.Please pay attention, GUN :l
Post by: Solymr on August 29, 2014, 04:47:26 pm
*looks at Swashbuckler* Gangplank?
Post by: CecilHoshino on August 29, 2014, 04:54:43 pm
Other future plans for v1.4? More DotA references to balance it out.
Post by: Furtuka on August 29, 2014, 04:57:18 pm
Post by: Solymr on August 29, 2014, 05:12:24 pm
IMO a flat bonus like +5 would work better.
Also Druidic magic is pretty lame as is.
Post by: Xanmyral on August 29, 2014, 05:28:17 pm
-Snip-
Oh my yes. Thank you Cecil!
I like a lot of the changes, some to quite interesting mechanics. Also, I like the Blues Brother's reference.
Post by: CecilHoshino on August 29, 2014, 11:26:12 pm
Also a note about Judgement. I think the problem isn't the range of effectiveness, since they all have their effects restricted to a class tree and doing it on a skill basis might result in unbalancing, but the fact that their base MT is pretty horrible and if you change it to x2 instead of x3 it becomes even worse.
IMO a flat bonus like +5 would work better.
Also Druidic magic is pretty lame as is.
So, in my defense, when I made the change from x3 to x2 Effective Might, I thought I was bringing it in line with FE standards. But, as it turns out, that was only the standard in FE9, FE5, and the English version of FE7. (FE4 was kooky and made it autocrits, and crits in THAT game were absolutely bonkers). Also, in a snap decision, I preemptively nerfed them, though it's possible I might have gone a bit too much in the other direction.
And I agree, my original answer for what Druidic Magic was all about in v1.2 and 1.22 was pretty lame; hopefully, the change/clarification in 1.3 makes them a little more appealing.
Post by: IronyOwl on August 29, 2014, 11:43:06 pm
Btw we still haven't got any submission for art :v
ART!ART.
(http://i.imgur.com/E7FUWmX.png)
ART!
Post by: Varee on August 30, 2014, 03:59:55 am
Post by: Solymr on August 30, 2014, 07:45:36 am
Due to their high might and the fact that WTD doesnt really counter the fact that a lot of enemies in a map have the same weapon, they become OP against their target and not bad against the rest.
Also people dont like sidearms for Archers v:
Post by: Tiruin on August 30, 2014, 08:18:10 am
Also people dont like sidearms for Archers v:/me shoots Solymr with her bowgun.
We can now attack in melee! :D
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 30, 2014, 08:21:01 am
Also people dont like sidearms for Archers v:/me shoots Solymr with her bowgun.
We can now attack in melee! :D
Well, you can counterattack in melee.
...Which kind of subverts the point of having bows be ranged only, I think. But then again, the Archer doesn't have much else going on for them in terms of class skills.
Post by: darkpaladin109 on August 30, 2014, 08:29:04 am
Meh, it can at least get archers WTA against Axe-users.Also people dont like sidearms for Archers v:/me shoots Solymr with her bowgun.
We can now attack in melee! :D
Well, you can counterattack in melee.
...Which kind of subverts the point of having bows be ranged only, I think. But then again, the Archer doesn't have much else going on for them in terms of class skills.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 30, 2014, 08:31:47 am
And it's still weird that they change their equipment during the EP.
Post by: Solymr on August 30, 2014, 09:05:45 am
Also a suggestion to change instances of DEF/RES to DR if the reduction is independent of the type of damage (i.e. supports, warding, etc).
Post by: Sirus on August 30, 2014, 10:24:49 am
Also a suggestion to change instances of DEF/RES to DR if the reduction is independent of the type of damage (i.e. supports, warding, etc).I'm amazed that this isn't a thing already, especially for supports.
Post by: Xanmyral on August 30, 2014, 10:56:01 am
Meh, it can at least get archers WTA against Axe-users.
Actually no, the rules are specific that you gain neither WTA nor WTD.
Post by: freeformschooler on August 30, 2014, 10:56:41 am
Also a suggestion to change instances of DEF/RES to DR if the reduction is independent of the type of damage (i.e. supports, warding, etc).I'm amazed that this isn't a thing already, especially for supports.
Yes please. We can get MAG, but no RES :(
Although I wouldn't be opposed to a DEF/RES split in supports. Might make things interesting.
Post by: Xanmyral on August 30, 2014, 11:32:42 am
Cecil, what do you think of halving the defensive bonus it gives and doubling the critical bonus enemies get against the unit?
Or, for something a bit left field, maybe having their CON count as defense while petrified? The Crit bonus can stay the same there, or still be doubled if you want it to be more punishing.
I suppose it comes to question of whether it turns the unit wholly stone, or if it just locks any movement by encasing them in stone though for the latter possibility.
Post by: Sirus on August 30, 2014, 11:44:11 am
Post by: Xanmyral on August 30, 2014, 11:48:48 am
It just means that instead of being metal wrapped in stone, they're just stone. A sort of fluff reason for why their CON is now their defense instead of stone augmenting their existing defense. The effect still goes away, the unit if downed loses the effect, etc.
Post by: freeformschooler on August 30, 2014, 01:16:37 pm
Also people dont like sidearms for Archers v:/me shoots Solymr with her bowgun.
We can now attack in melee! :D
Well, you can counterattack in melee.
...Which kind of subverts the point of having bows be ranged only, I think. But then again, the Archer doesn't have much else going on for them in terms of class skills.
Archers could already counterattack in melee. They just had to use a crossbow.
Of course, they can't counter with their sidearm if they just used a Recurve or Longbow the turn before being struck.
Post by: Sirus on August 30, 2014, 01:20:27 pm
Actually, they can if my reading is correct.Also people dont like sidearms for Archers v:/me shoots Solymr with her bowgun.
We can now attack in melee! :D
Well, you can counterattack in melee.
...Which kind of subverts the point of having bows be ranged only, I think. But then again, the Archer doesn't have much else going on for them in terms of class skills.
Archers could already counterattack in melee. They just had to use a crossbow.
Of course, they can't counter with their sidearm if they just used a Recurve or Longbow the turn before being struck.
Quote
If they are attacked in melee while equipped with a Bow (except for a Crossbow), they can choose to counter attack with the Sidearm.
Post by: Solymr on August 30, 2014, 01:39:01 pm
Cause there has been talk about a game based on those and maybe people are interested :v
Post by: freeformschooler on August 30, 2014, 01:54:59 pm
Actually, they can if my reading is correct.QuoteIf they are attacked in melee while equipped with a Bow (except for a Crossbow), they can choose to counter attack with the Sidearm.
Now that's just silly.
Post by: Sirus on August 30, 2014, 02:00:54 pm
Which is why it seems that many people do not approve of that rule :vActually, they can if my reading is correct.QuoteIf they are attacked in melee while equipped with a Bow (except for a Crossbow), they can choose to counter attack with the Sidearm.
Now that's just silly.
Anyone here play Space Empires/Master Of Orion?Space Empires IV casual player here o7
Cause there has been talk about a game based on those and maybe people are interested :v
Post by: Solymr on September 01, 2014, 01:59:28 pm
Also a question for anyone who cares: how would you make a Space Empires/Masters of Orion/space 4x and FEF hybrid game?
Post by: Haspen on September 01, 2014, 02:07:54 pm
It's also the newest update of my tileset so GM's using it should grab eet v:
Post by: Solymr on September 01, 2014, 03:10:55 pm
Post by: Haspen on September 01, 2014, 03:11:32 pm
Post by: CecilHoshino on September 01, 2014, 08:19:15 pm
In the Fire Emblem games, Archers tend to be the most maligned of classes, moreso than Knights and Priests, because their strengths were overwhelmingly outweighed by their faults: they were locked to 2 Range, whereas most enemies were locked at 1. This already poses a problem, because the Archer would only get off one, maybe two shots before it was the enemy's turn, and they would focus melee onto the Archer who can't counter attack, while sending their own ranged guys against your melee troops, also to avoid counter attack. As well, Magic, by virtue of its 1-2 range and the fact that most enemies have mediocre at best resistance, often proved the be the much superior weapon since it allowed them to attack on the enemy's turn. And by virtue of how Archers and Mages tend to be statted in the games, they're both about as squishy in melee, no harm, no foul. And, after FE6, Hit Rates were so naturally high anyway except against, like, Swordmasters, that hyper specialization in Skill was fairly useless, except for games where Snipers got a natural crit rate boost. Not to mention Lances and Axes tended to have a ranged option that served just as well (except in FE11 and 12, where the Javelin and Hand Axe were nerfed to shit) and could still work in melee, and some of the best Bow users tended not to be Archers at all, but those who used Bows as a subweapon. Or Rangers/Nomads, who had bows AND swords AND horses. The one strength Archers had was their weapon was effective against Flyers, but that comes up shockingly rarely, and you still have the range issue.
But Archers are so important to the atmosphere and feel of the setting, they need to be included. So I had to make them more appealing/forgiving to counteract with. For starters was the Defense preferred stat, allowing them to better survive in case the player makes a mistake and gets caught in melee. As far as specialties go, though, the Ballistician specialty was just as situational and restrictive as any of the Terrain based effects. Perhaps even moreso. And there was still the "absolutely helpless during the enemy's turn" issue. So I turned to another strategy game, the Heroes of Might and Magic series.
This is a sprite sheet for one of the archery units in the second game. (http://www.spriters-resource.com/fullview/41774/) Because position is so key in that game, protecting archers was often an integral part of any army composition. Still, in case an enemy did cross the entire field to attack the archers, the archers in question could counter-attack in melee, albeit with reduced damage. And that was what I went for with the Sidearm special; give Archers a chance to fight back and contribute during the enemy phase where they really suffer, while still maintaining their identity as ranged fighters. It's also why the Crossbow made a comeback, but is not required to be specialized in.
As for the Effective Damage and the numbers associated, well, that's a lot of numbers to crunch in a vacuum, so, I apologize if I overestimate the effectiveness of some weapons and subcategories, and underestimate others.
Post by: Parsely on September 01, 2014, 09:01:33 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 01, 2014, 09:07:52 pm
Could the 'sidearm' feature be put in use for ALL bows? With the Archer class having reduced penalties to using it compared to the generality? Pushing an idea out front here. :P
Post by: Swordstar on September 01, 2014, 09:15:48 pm
Could the 'sidearm' feature be put in use for ALL bows? With the Archer class having reduced penalties to using it compared to the generality? Pushing an idea out front here. :P
Eh, most bow users have a weapon besides bows. Only ones that don't are nomads, who have horses and the ability to get the heck out of there, plus can eventually get swords.
Post by: Xanmyral on September 01, 2014, 09:30:26 pm
-snip-
I personally find no issue with the sidearm usage, its a rather under-appreciated weapon subcategory, and the defacto odd duckling of the melee trinity due to being the forth in swords. I can't comment on how maligned the class is however, due to lack of experience beyond the handbook, but I can believe it.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 01, 2014, 11:27:00 pm
It does bother me that magic classes tend toward being so much better than physical units, but I don't think we've had too much trouble with that in FEF, Call Magic aside.
Post by: Xanmyral on September 01, 2014, 11:41:45 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 01, 2014, 11:54:10 pm
I think if casters had even lower hp, and all their weapons were a bit weaker, it might be balanced a bit better. Then again, it hasn't really been an issue up to this point, and it may be the hot toddy talking.
Post by: Solymr on September 02, 2014, 04:55:08 am
Also every GM likes to put a lot of MAG on magic units, everyone thinks of them as glass cannon, can't we introduce some tanky magic user?
Post by: Culise on September 02, 2014, 10:12:42 am
If Cecil is bringing up HoMM, I should remind you that ranged units in that game had all the range possible in line of sight, but after some distance the damage would be reduced by half.Actually, Call Magic rewards tanky mages, at least as far as HP is concerned. In addition to sheer bulk, they can also burn that HP into additional magic if they aren't getting hit. I built Raquel that way, and Enoch is the same as well.
Also every GM likes to put a lot of MAG on magic units, everyone thinks of them as glass cannon, can't we introduce some tanky magic user?
Post by: Solymr on September 02, 2014, 10:49:59 am
Post by: Rolepgeek on September 02, 2014, 10:56:41 am
HP doesn't mean much when you don't have jack for DEF/RES to back it up :vSamurai-san disagrees with you.
Post by: Xanmyral on September 02, 2014, 12:33:04 pm
Actually, Call Magic rewards tanky mages, at least as far as HP is concerned. In addition to sheer bulk, they can also burn that HP into additional magic if they aren't getting hit. I built Raquel that way, and Enoch is the same as well.
Of course, his is accidental (really lucky HP growths basically) and largely irrelevant considering he has nothing to capitalize on it (Holy Guard/Inquisitor). And is often poisoned, with little to no res/def.
Post by: Solymr on September 02, 2014, 01:00:53 pm
Edit: not passive, activated :v
Post by: freeformschooler on September 03, 2014, 03:23:46 pm
I just thought of something. Archers are supposed to be skillful (lolefa) and eagle eyed. So maybe a passive that lets them exchange DMG for extra hit would work.
Edit: not passive, activated :v
Well, since you mention Efa, you get a very specific problem with Sniper tree.
1. without Sure Shot, you're darn right everyone's Sniper is going to max out SKL (rather than go for a STR build like Efa), so extra hit wouldn't be terribly useful except for a few exceptionally buffed foes (like some FEF1 bosses).
2. with Sure Shot, the whole point is that you don't need to get extra hit. Otherwise, with a "real" calculated hit of 56 or somesuch, you may well be exchanging 30 DMG or something to break the final 85 hit rate, and that doesn't seem like a good trade.
Post by: Solymr on September 03, 2014, 03:31:52 pm
Still, I had this in mind for those measly last enemy hitpoints that even if you have 90% chance you really don't want to miss.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 03, 2014, 04:16:55 pm
Post by: Solymr on September 04, 2014, 01:48:50 pm
They should start with lightning/wind/worm, they are the weakest magics of their weapons and fire/flux too heavy for them (3 CON lol).
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 05, 2014, 07:29:22 am
To explain- Freddy the Myrmidon has Cancel. He is fighting somebody with better speed than him, and he attacks the guy. His hit connects, and Cancel procs, reducing the enemy to only one counterattack. Pretty nice.
Eddy the Knight took Disarm instead, and he attacks somebody with better speed- Disarm procs, and both of the enemy's counters are nulled because he is no longer holding a weapon. On top of that, his buddy Letty the thief can now take the enemy's weapon (provided his speed or luck is better and he has free inventory space), leaving that enemy unable to fight for the rest of the map- Unless they somehow get to one of the few allies carrying a spare weapon and they actually pass it to him. Really, the only disadvantage Disarm has compared to Cancel is that it can't proc against bosses.
tldr, plz nerf Disarm.
Post by: Khaiel on September 05, 2014, 07:37:03 am
Post by: Solymr on September 07, 2014, 09:13:29 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 11, 2014, 12:10:55 pm
Post by: Khaiel on September 11, 2014, 12:21:49 pm
Post by: Solymr on September 11, 2014, 02:18:18 pm
Also I reiterate that Judgement tree should deal with class trees like before, but clearer.
Also also Armoured on Wyvern Knight might be a little too much, at full health and maxed DEF anything less than 48 physical doesn't do squat.
Post by: Haspen on September 12, 2014, 04:13:24 am
Well I worked upon it a bit more and:
Spoiler: Alchemy aka making healing items and more (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Alchemist class plus promotions: Combat Medic and Pharmacist (click to show/hide)
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on September 12, 2014, 04:52:39 am
Post by: Squeegy on September 12, 2014, 04:55:14 am
e: That sounded a bit mean. I'll try and make it up by offering to draw someone's character.
Post by: Solymr on September 12, 2014, 04:57:58 am
Passive Effect
Provides special Inventory for alchemical ingredients (Chamomile, Stingweed, Water Lily, Monster Fang, Fang Powder). It cannot be used to carry weapons or items, even items used in alchemy (Vulneraries, for example).
Also did you think of making the Combat Medic promo the actual Combat Medic class (Nomad Medic) and rework the Medicine Man passive.
Also also pls no double C ranks on First Class.
Also also also Squeegy I talked with Toady about that and he said nope to a only FE subforum because IP reasons. He said a more general subcategory would work, I proposed him one but I didn't get an answer so there's that.
Post by: Squeegy on September 12, 2014, 04:59:05 am
Post by: Haspen on September 12, 2014, 05:01:57 am
Also did you think of making the Combat Medic promo the actual Combat Medic class (Nomad Medic) and rework the Medicine Man passive.
Yeah I thought of that but first of all I have no ideas for mounted alchemist and I would want to Cecil to speak how 'fond' he is of Nomad Medic class (is such class even in one vidya FE?)
Post by: Solymr on September 12, 2014, 05:05:23 am
Post by: Haspen on September 12, 2014, 05:07:21 am
The other version of it was +10 Eva, +10DG, +2 DEF and +2 RES, with the same conditional.
Post by: Solymr on September 12, 2014, 05:10:13 am
Also since they're alchemists consider transmutation.
Post by: Haspen on September 12, 2014, 05:12:01 am
Also, I did consider that being 'less magically skilled' would give Alchemists D in sub-category Staffs and E in rest of Staves. Similarily, their promotions would have B in subcat and C total (Pharmacist) and C in subcat and D total (Combat Medic).
Post by: Solymr on September 12, 2014, 05:15:11 am
Also I just noticed Squeegy draws. Wait until someone notices :v
Post by: Haspen on September 12, 2014, 05:16:53 am
Transmuting ingredients for gold and viceversa :P
No. No.
Nope I:
They already have capabilities of being goldmines at highest level.
Post by: Squeegy on September 12, 2014, 05:24:11 am
Spoiler: NSFW (click to show/hide)
Post by: Haspen on September 12, 2014, 05:25:55 am
Why I'm not surprised.
EDIT: Well okay, not smut, but at least an NSFW tag would apply to such picture, even after censor :P
Post by: Squeegy on September 12, 2014, 05:32:58 am
Also I just don't have anything non-smut that was drawn recently enough to be at that level of quality.
Post by: Solymr on September 12, 2014, 05:35:59 am
So... did you see any FEF character you'd like to draw?
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on September 12, 2014, 05:36:41 am
@Squeegy: Yeah, I know. So many FEFs... and here's me without the time to be in some of the new ones. XD I like your art, though.
Post by: Squeegy on September 12, 2014, 05:41:28 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on September 12, 2014, 05:52:00 am
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/Static_Jester/CSANormal_zps1b340498.png) (http://pastebin.com/H4qfW4cF)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/Static_Jester/CSANHBasic_zpsad7c7edf.png) (http://pastebin.com/H4qfW4cF)
Here's Christopher Shields, both with and without his hood.
Quote from: Description
As for physically, he's a tall, willowy man, standing at six feet even and 140 pounds. He smiles easily and often but rarely genuinely, and his ice-blue eyes are always cold and distant. His black hair is long and beyond the routine cleaning uncared for. With the exception of his face - which is usually mostly hidden in the shadow of his hood - his body is entirely covered in clothing. It's hard to pin down his exact age from looking at him and even he doesn't know how old he is either, but a good guess would be in his early 20s.
Best way I can think of to describe his clothes is Ezio Auditore from Assassin's Creed 2; I played him as a reference to the series in general so like this (http://fr.assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Fichier:Ezio_auditore_ACII.png) but in blue and gold, with slightly more armor and any other changes you'd think would look good.
Post by: Haspen on September 12, 2014, 05:54:50 am
Spoiler: Alchemist, Combat Medic x2, Pharmacist (click to show/hide)
Post by: Squeegy on September 12, 2014, 06:02:31 am
I'm narcissistic enough that I'll jump on that, if no one else will and if you'll take my request. :PAny weapon? Gotta specify anything you want me to draw him with.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/Static_Jester/CSANormal_zps1b340498.png) (http://pastebin.com/H4qfW4cF)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/Static_Jester/CSANHBasic_zpsad7c7edf.png) (http://pastebin.com/H4qfW4cF)
Here's Christopher Shields, both with and without his hood.Quote from: DescriptionAs for physically, he's a tall, willowy man, standing at six feet even and 140 pounds. He smiles easily and often but rarely genuinely, and his ice-blue eyes are always cold and distant. His black hair is long and beyond the routine cleaning uncared for. With the exception of his face - which is usually mostly hidden in the shadow of his hood - his body is entirely covered in clothing. It's hard to pin down his exact age from looking at him and even he doesn't know how old he is either, but a good guess would be in his early 20s.
Best way I can think of to describe his clothes is Ezio Auditore from Assassin's Creed 2; I played him as a reference to the series in general so like this (http://fr.assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Fichier:Ezio_auditore_ACII.png) but in blue and gold, with slightly more armor and any other changes you'd think would look good.
Post by: Haspen on September 12, 2014, 06:05:44 am
But of course its for SC to decide.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 12, 2014, 06:10:49 am
e: That sounded a bit mean. I'll try and make it up by offering to draw someone's character.
How many are you offering to draw? Just the one?
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on September 12, 2014, 06:23:37 am
Post by: Squeegy on September 12, 2014, 06:26:10 am
e: That sounded a bit mean. I'll try and make it up by offering to draw someone's character.
How many are you offering to draw? Just the one?
Whichever one I want to draw most. I'm not made of art, am I?
Post by: Haspen on September 12, 2014, 06:28:10 am
Chris basically had a gravity knife (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_knife)
Did you mean switchblade (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switchblade)? :P
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 12, 2014, 06:30:54 am
e: That sounded a bit mean. I'll try and make it up by offering to draw someone's character.
How many are you offering to draw? Just the one?
Whichever one I want to draw most. I'm not made of art, am I?
Welp, SC got here first, so he can get his guy drawn.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on September 12, 2014, 06:34:57 am
@Blade: Well, he did say whatever he wants to draw most. You (and other people who don't live on night shift like I do and so weren't around :P) might as well submit a request and let him choose. I don't want to force a situation where there's only one option if he's not into it.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 12, 2014, 06:40:34 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on September 12, 2014, 06:45:27 am
Post by: Solymr on September 12, 2014, 07:55:57 am
Post by: Haspen on September 12, 2014, 09:15:16 am
Post by: Haspen on September 12, 2014, 09:22:44 am
This is final update on alchemy and alchemist class so far:
Spoiler: Alchemy (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Alchemist, Combat Medic x2 and Pharmacist (click to show/hide)
Post by: Solymr on September 12, 2014, 09:30:53 am
Post by: Haspen on September 12, 2014, 09:36:47 am
This allowed me to lower the base stats of Alchemist even further (not by much, but still) :v!
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 13, 2014, 10:44:00 am
Click this. (http://pastebin.com/ueuEWS1P)
Obviously it still needs work. Some class specials are decidedly lackluster. But it's what I came up with without much help.
Post by: Solymr on September 13, 2014, 12:07:28 pm
Post by: Solymr on September 13, 2014, 02:34:32 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 14, 2014, 10:38:45 am
Post by: Solymr on September 15, 2014, 08:39:20 am
Post by: freeformschooler on September 16, 2014, 09:54:36 am
Post by: Solymr on September 16, 2014, 10:35:36 am
Post by: Xanmyral on September 16, 2014, 09:22:30 pm
Total - 279
Number Effective Against Wyvern Knights - 93
Percentage - 33.33%
I just found it amusing how the number came out as a perfect one third.
Post by: Solymr on September 17, 2014, 09:09:08 am
Also for Cecil: do you think it's time to make a GM handbook? And why roll one number for both hit and crit?
Post by: Haspen on September 17, 2014, 10:16:13 am
And why roll one number for both hit and crit?
Wut.
Post by: darkpaladin109 on September 17, 2014, 10:17:49 am
Put the link to the playtesting thread in OP. Go check it out.
Also for Cecil: do you think it's time to make a GM handbook? And why roll one number for both hit and crit?
Post by: Khaiel on September 17, 2014, 10:23:24 am
And why roll one number for both hit and crit?I believe that although in the book says to roll once only, most GMs are rolling them separetely.
Post by: Solymr on September 17, 2014, 10:25:13 am
Also effective damage is still double but I think we talked about that already :v
Post by: Haspen on September 17, 2014, 10:29:41 am
Post by: CecilHoshino on September 20, 2014, 02:57:55 pm
Judgement - Before, it targeted specific class trees, which would cover about three classes at a time (ie: Avalon would only be effective against Mercenaries, Heroes, and Commanders). But there was always Thani and Ray, which targeted Armoured and Horseback, respectively. Which, as we covered earlier in discussions of the Soldier's Anti-Cavalry special, there were a LOT of Horseback units (hence why Anti-Cavalry/Spear Wall was reworked and slightly nerfed). So, I decided to try a different direction, see if Judgement could work on a bit of a broader scope. Which leads to the problem of...
Critical Eye - When it was proposed Berserkers get Critical Eye back, it led me to consider why exactly. Previously, the only classes that had them were Sniper, Sentinel, Mountain Warrior, Holy Guard (now Inquisitors), and Assassins. So I thought, "What do all these classes have in common?" To which the answer was "They all only have access to one Weapon type." And while it was at S Rank, the +5 Crit bonus seemed like a fair compensation for their lack of versatility. So, in the interest of fairness, Berserkers were given Critical Eye, as were Summoner and Mage Knight....
Buuuuut then that all fell apart when I realized, even back in 1.23, Samurai ALSO had Critical Eye, and they had Swords AND Bows. So, in the future, that IS going to be a change, the units with Critical Eye are going to be parred down. Right now, I'm thinking the list will be Sniper, Sentinel, Inquisitor, Assassin (considering Berserkers already have a Crit boost built into their kit, and Mountain Warriors are more about flat damage than crits).
Critical Hits on one dice roll - This was an early consideration of mine way back in v1.0. The thing about this was I was concerned about the "roll to hit, roll to crit" system, because let's consider Leona the Mercenary, who goes into battle with a 90% hit rate, and a 5% crit rate. On her hit roll, she manages to roll a 3, and that's great! But then she has to roll for her crit, and manages 96. Which seemed a bit unfair, given how she lucked out with the hit roll. So I reduced it to 1 dice roll, except in the case of higher Crit Rate than Hit.
Two Rolls like in the Games/"True Hit" - This is a system seen in Fire Emblems 6 through 13. In 1 through 5, one Random Number was generated, and if it was lower than the Hit Rate, the attack landed. Because of this, characters with a 90% hit rate flat out missed 1 time out of 10, while characters with a 30% hit rate still hit 3 times out of 10, neither of which is an insignificant number. However, in the True Hit system, 2 Random Numbers are generated, then averaged, and if the average number is lower than the Hit Rate, it lands. So a 90% hit rate is actually 98%, while a 30% hit rate is actually 18%, which significantly changes the course of the battle, highly favouring units with a higher Speed and either Swords or Bows, while greatly hurting those with lower speeds, and the entire Axe and Dark Magic weapon tree. It also is an indirect nerf to Skill specialists, because, at a certain point, Hit Rate is basically 100% anyway, so pumping any more into it is only for the +15 bonus to crit from a max 30 Skill which caps might even prevent from happening.
So, yeah, that system is never going to be included in the Tabletop game.
GM's Handbook - Consolidating the Enemy Handbook/Monster Manuel into this is definitely making it the next item on the docket. I need to do more research into how a GM's Handbook is made, and, with school, it'll still definitely be a long while before its release.
Alchemist and Time Mage - If these playtests go well, I'd actually be interested in included them in one of the expansion books (either the Playable Races or Tier Three classes, which would incorporate the whole tree from First to Promoted to Tier Three)
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 20, 2014, 03:34:39 pm
It just occurred to me that the new Disarm skill needs to either trigger only on Skill% chance, or be a cost skill, because right now, it's just a better Cancel.
To explain- Freddy the Myrmidon has Cancel. He is fighting somebody with better speed than him, and he attacks the guy. His hit connects, and Cancel procs, reducing the enemy to only one counterattack. Pretty nice.
Eddy the Knight took Disarm instead, and he attacks somebody with better speed- Disarm procs, and both of the enemy's counters are nulled because he is no longer holding a weapon. On top of that, his buddy Letty the thief can now take the enemy's weapon (provided his speed or luck is better and he has free inventory space), leaving that enemy unable to fight for the rest of the map- Unless they somehow get to one of the few allies carrying a spare weapon and they actually pass it to him. Really, the only disadvantage Disarm has compared to Cancel is that it can't proc against bosses.
tldr, plz nerf Disarm.
Found it :v
Post by: CecilHoshino on September 20, 2014, 04:00:36 pm
Yeah, that was a whoopsie on my part. Disarm should be considered (Skill + Half Luck)% luck Big Shield, just forgot to put in the "Half." If Half Luck still seems too much, we could make it a Cost Skill, or reduce it to a flat (Skill)% for Free.
That also brings to mind something about Cancel. Just for clarity's sake, which do you guys prefer,
1. Free: Cancel has a (Speed + Luck)% chance to negate the enemy's first counter attack (potentially reducing the counter attacks to 0)
2. Free: Cancel has a (Speed + Luck)% chance to negate the enemy's entire counter attack (including follow up attacks if their AS is higher)
3. Cost: Cancel has a (Speed + Luck)% chance to negate the enemy's entire counter attack (including follow up attacks if their AS is higher)
When Cancel was written, it was made with 2 in mind (and that the opponent being "Cancelled" would only be getting one counter attack otherwise, anyway). But if you've all been working with 1 in mind, and 2 seems too much of an upgrade, we could shift to 3, or clarify it was 1 always and forever.
Also, I just remembered:
Dance, Magic Dance - That was a mistake on my part. See, I'm well aware of the Center + Call Magic exploit. That was actually built into the system, as a way to encourage diversifying growth rates so that the off-offensive stat (Strength or Magic) has a reason to be higher than 0%. When I first created the game, one of my original playtesters actually played a Bard -> Lore Master with Center and a not insignificant Strength growth for that explicit purpose. (I also had a Myrmidon with Imbue; she realized she had become Princess Wolverine and we loved it). However, for some reason, this slipped my mind when I considered giving Dancers an encouragement to shift from a Physical class (Dancer/Blade Dancer) to a Magical class (Lore Master). Instead of letting them gain even MORE from Center (by having Strength be a Preferred Stat, even if it doesn't always come up), I added in "Dance, Magic Dance," which, as you noted, blows the whole thing wide open.
So, yeah, that'll be the first thing to go. For now, assume that's not actually a thing, and that the Lore Master's Preferred Stats are still "Luck, Magic."
Post by: Sirus on September 20, 2014, 04:17:51 pm
Say you attack a myrmidon which can double you. Cancel can let you negate one, both, or neither of the myrmidon's counterattacks depending on the dice rolls.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 20, 2014, 08:30:40 pm
I'm fine with it as it is since Cancel is based on Speed so if you take it you're making speed a strong stat. So generally your enemies will tend toward only one counter, brave weapons notwithstanding.
Post by: Solymr on September 21, 2014, 02:09:48 pm
Judgement: the fact that these weapons targeted class tress except the ones that cover Armoured and Horseback would be remedied by simply changing these two into "Knight tree" and "Cavalier tree". That would make the coverage of each of these about the same (except monsters/dragons).
Another thing about these is that the lower rank weapons get a really crappy bonus, since their might is really low, while the higher ups get a lot more damage. This feels kinda unfair when an archer barely gets a little more damaged by its judgement while a mercenary would get obliterated. Did you think of a flat bonus across all the tree?
Critical Eye: Assassins also have two weapons, but their special requires critical to be effective. Inquisitor is a different thing, they use light magic which every weapon gets a some crit. Other than that, your new list makes sense, if maybe the samurai's new special is a little bit too much.
True hit/True crit: we've always used one dice for the hit roll, since that's the way it's mathematically correct. But the crit chance is another thing. If it means "chance that a hit is a critical hit" then a second roll is required for them. Rolling one dice for both inflates the crit chance, as you probably thought when you made the "higher crit than hit" rule. This presents a problem. As your hit approaches your crit, your actual chance of critting on a hit increases, until your hit goes lower than your crit, where it becomes the true chance. If you have high evade, this could be worse for you, as a hit can become a devastating crit more easily. Thus why we tend to use one roll for each.
GM's handbook: there's one thing where new (and not so new) GMs need the most help: proper enemy statting. Is there any work done on that?
Alchemist and Time Mage: alchemist is being tested while time mage got erased out of existence because I couldn't fit it in without excessive complaints.
Samurai's Special: Musou's new under half HP effect seems OP to me. Mostly because there is a weapon made especifically for Myrmidons that fits the requirement for having that bonus crit added. Why not make it MAG/2 for all weapons?
Free Stats: I also noticed an important part about the newer versions of the handbook that I believe to be the source of most of the rejection. A lot of classes get free stats in their specials for nothing. I know you like LoL, so I think you know they don't like "balls of stats with no counterplay". We don't like it either. Things like Thief's passive evasion bonus feel too cheap and omnipresent, and some specials feel like better versions of character skills (Pass is rendered moot by En Passant and Jump).
Cancel: so, there are three possibilities... Why don't we test them? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=143789)
Post by: CecilHoshino on September 21, 2014, 09:02:46 pm
Weapon Might in General: When I was readying 1.3 for launch, the biggest hurdle was rebalancing the weapon stats. Which, as you can probably guess, isn't exactly my strongest suit. At least, not without an environment or at least someone else to stress test these numbers before launch. So I apologize if it leads to...stupid stuff.
Critical Hits: I concede that point, and perhaps it'd be best to go with two dice, but I still feel bad about the hypothetical situation where you roll under your crit for your hit, and then miss the crit on its designated roll. Perhaps a system where you get +10 to your Crit if you rolled it during your hit, or something? Just so that, when rolling, the player's not wishing "I need to roll well but not perfect."
Critical Eye: And in all the discussion, I totally missed the Wyvern Hunter. So, if we were to revisit the list, if we took the Inquisitor's Critical Eye and gave it to the Wyvern Hunter, would that work?
Assassin's Weapon Ranks: This one I might seem to go back and forth on, but I really wanted to go for the idea of taking their specialization to the utmost, explicitly at the expense of their previous broadness. I did intend for the Spy to abandon either the Sword or the Bow in exchange for having an S Rank in the other. Would we be okay with this?
Free Stats: I'm aware of this design philosophy. And I completely agree with it, but, I admit, I got lost along the way and made some egregious mistakes. Like the Thief's "Overdeveloped Sense of Self Preservation." I'm too in love with that passive name to drop it initially, but the whole "bonus to Evasion while retreating" was ambiguous (I could see so many arguments around what constitutes "retreating"), but I want to give the Thief something aside from Steal (much like how Spy has Ambush and Vision, and Scavenger has Scavenge Gold and Power of the Underdog).
For the specific example of En Passant and Jump, I'd argue (semantics) that En Passant isn't strictly a better version than Pass; Pass allows you to move through units, whereas En Passant still requires you to move around units. You still have to run in ] this shape rather than going in a straight line, but it's an option if the Myrmidon needs to get somewhere quickly and not stop to deal with enemies directly. Jump, on the other hand, was admittedly another cute reference, this time to Might & Magic, where the entire class comes from (in that series from games 1 through 7, the Archer was actually the hybrid class of the pure physical Knight and the pure magical Sorcerer). To give them something other than Imbue Arrow, I included Jump as a reference to a spell from the games, as well as a tool to help reposition. But the new version is, admittedly, a bit much. In this case in particular, would a nerf to Jump be called for, or is Imbue Arrow more than enough?
If other cases of "Free stats, no counterplay" crop up, please, don't hesitate too; like I acknowledge, this is my first real game design rodeo, so newbie traps abound, I'm sure.
(In the instance of the Invincible Wyvern Knight, they are going to get a few nerfs: they're losing Armoured, which was included as a reference to previously being Soldier Trainee promotions before moving to Rider Trainee, and the Wyvern Rider's "Dragon Scales" will no longer provide bonus Resistance as well as bonus Defense, emphasizing the magic counter-play)
GM's Handbook: No done-and-done work as of yet. Again, time permitting, that's first on the docket.
Post by: Xanmyral on September 21, 2014, 09:44:01 pm
- One version could be that if a thief picks a lock (door or chest, either with a pick or a key), they can act as if they have canto and move the rest of their move.
This one is admittedly not really retreating based, but at the same time it would be a helpful boon to their primary job and allow them to get it done quicker and back into the fight instead of spending a whole map moving from place to place. It also has some weird play in that it could be used to escape quicker due to the whole 'can open a door and rush through it in the same action.'
- Another version: If a thief attacks an enemy, they can move the rest of their move (assuming they have some) to the nearest defensive terrain (assuming there's one in range).
I'm "iffy" of this one because its a toss up as to if its stronger than when the Crusader had the ability (they could move into pillars for one move and it was restricted to only pillars, thieves have the full cost but they have a naturally higher move and can move into any defensive terrain), but plays into the whole retreat thing.
- Third Version: Like the second, but it only activates if they got hit by a counter attack. If they dodged the counter attack, they can't use the rest of their move to back off into defensive terrain, but if they did it could.
This version is more restrictive than the second, but at the same time it would lead to more contingencies and conditional actions.
For Judgement balancing, how about this:
It deals extra damage to the class it would be effective against. The extra damage would be the total level of the character using it (Capping it somewhere suggested, 20 maybe?) minus the WT negation of the rank of the weapon (S is -8, B is -5 I think, etc). Higher the rank weapon you're using would have a higher base but a lower bonus. The lower rank weapon you use would have a lower base but a higher bonus.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 21, 2014, 10:35:46 pm
Critical Hits: I concede that point, and perhaps it'd be best to go with two dice, but I still feel bad about the hypothetical situation where you roll under your crit for your hit, and then miss the crit on its designated roll. Perhaps a system where you get +10 to your Crit if you rolled it during your hit, or something? Just so that, when rolling, the player's not wishing "I need to roll well but not perfect."
This plays into one of the many Gambler's fallacies. It's important to remember that dice have no memory, and the hit roll does not influence the crit roll in any way.
Post by: Xanmyral on September 21, 2014, 10:48:18 pm
Post by: freeformschooler on September 21, 2014, 10:51:21 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on September 21, 2014, 10:56:13 pm
Post by: Solymr on September 22, 2014, 06:30:32 am
Weapon Might: welp now we have a test environment so anything you'd like to test you can ask there.
Crits: problem with it being in one roll is that either you inflate the rate or end up with a really hard to roll rate. Take 75 hit and 33 crit: rolling under 25 on the hit would give you a crit that is a true crit rate, but if you have things like 70 and 6 you end up with broken numbers. Also if someone barely gets a hit, but then on the next roll gets a 1, would it be fair to just use the hit roll for the crit?
Critical Eye: Wyvern Hunters get Pierce, which is a really good offensive ability. And Inquisitors get to call a roll. So no need for them.
Assassin: personally I wanted for them to have just one weapon at S rank, because no other classes that have S rank have another type of weapon (except Mage Knights, but they only have the rare magic weapons) and would be unfair for them.
Free stats: everyone should state their opinion about this matter.
Thief: problem with giving them two specials to keep in line with the Spy and Scavenger is that Power of the Underdog is another problem of free stats, because most GMs will overlevel the enemies so they don't get instagibbed, and Vision isn't really useful because most GMs don't use FoW extensively. That said, Vision could be extended to all three classes so people who know there's gonna be FoW aren't forced to bring a Spy if they want a Thief or Scavenger.
Wyvern Knight: we didn't think of the new Dragon Scales when we voted for Dragonheart, but if one of them needs nerf, I think it should be Dragonheart because its conditional is more permissive than that of Dragon Scales. Reducing Dragonheart to 3 DEF/AS and removing Armoured should be enough: some scratch damage breaks the Dragon Scales and then they can be beaten like the rest.
Soldier: not really sure what to say, Spear Wall is interesting but nobody seems to like it. They could work as more specialized anti-mounted unit (WTA vs mounted?).
Monk/Mage/Shaman: their current specials are too similar and don't have much of a downside, since STR is basically useless for them. Think of 1.20 Pious Veil: it gave defenses in exchange for offensive power, and our custom Ancient Gamble: reduces your CON to 0, most likely tanking your AS in exchange for MAG. Those feel like meaningful choices to make.
There's more but I won't type it all at once.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 22, 2014, 06:37:18 am
Assassin: personally I wanted for them to have just one weapon at S rank, because no other classes that have S rank have another type of weapon (except Mage Knights, but they only have the rare magic weapons) and would be unfair for them.
Well for that to be fair we'd have to make the Spy choose between their weapons.
Post by: Solymr on September 26, 2014, 08:38:34 am
Post by: Haspen on September 26, 2014, 09:07:02 am
Post by: Solymr on September 26, 2014, 09:34:42 am
Post by: Swordstar on September 26, 2014, 04:57:49 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 26, 2014, 05:00:41 pm
Post by: Swordstar on September 26, 2014, 06:02:43 pm
Post by: Toady One on September 28, 2014, 06:04:04 pm
Post by: Furtuka on September 28, 2014, 06:13:07 pm
Post by: Sirus on September 28, 2014, 06:18:29 pm
Really now, a single page mostly-harmless derail is hardly something to bring the Toad in for. Not unless there's a crapton of racism or porn or something.
Post by: Tiruin on September 28, 2014, 06:21:00 pm
...did someone seriously call in Toady for that? Thats... wow.
/me facepalmsSolymr called Toady in.
Really now, a single page mostly-harmless derail is hardly something to bring the Toad in for. Not unless there's a crapton of racism or porn or something.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 28, 2014, 06:22:46 pm
Post by: Sirus on September 28, 2014, 06:24:48 pm
Yeah, good point. I'll let it drop.
Post by: Solymr on October 03, 2014, 07:48:20 am
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/fegbatileset.png
Post by: CecilHoshino on October 05, 2014, 10:48:09 pm
Judgement
Weapon Might
Crits
Critical Eye
Assassin
Free stats
Judgement: They'd also need a minimum if we went with that system (say, if a fresh faced Level 1/Total Level 5 Monk specialized in Judgement, and is using the 8 Might Thani). So if the range was +2 to +20 bonus to Might...that could work. Would a similar system work for Druidic Magic, factoring in the WTD against Weapons it's not got the advantage over?
Weapon Might: I'll make a note of it.
Crits: Screw it, one roll, and please let us never talk of it again, it's getting embarrassing the more I think about it.
Critical Eye: Alright, Wyvern Hunter and Inquisitor won't get Critical Eye. But, just so we're clear, Benediction only allows one called roll, and it can't be a called crit against a boss. Does its ability to be used defensively to avoid an oh-shit moment make it that strong?
Assassin: And that is exactly what I was going for from the very beginning. It was just people on the thread complaining about suddenly dropping a weapon rank that got frustrating. The difference in which Weapon Rank the Assassin got to pick to S Rank in I thought was a nice nod to the different route the player went through, building up from Archer/Thief Trainees (Scouts/Drifters) towards the Assassin with an idea in mind for how they wanted to build from the start (with the bone thrown to those who started at Spy and may not have gone through the trainee phase). For simplicity's sake, rewording Assassin's Weapon Rank to: "Pick either your Chosen Bow or your Chosen Sword. That subcategory is at S Rank, and that weapon is at B Rank. The other weapon and subcategory are dropped." Regardless of the Assassin's path earlier (with Spy still going Bow and Sword at D Rank to start).
Free Stats: Okay, so.
The big one for me right now is Nature Spirits/Pious Veil/Ancient Gamble. The v1.3/v1.22 version of the Mage/Monk/Shaman skills were part of an effort, on my part, to encourage more diversity in build. So that not everyone who played a magic user dumped everything into Magic and Speed for lack of anything better, and to parallel physical classes who could better make use of Magic Weapons. I admit, the three skills and Center were probably half hearted attempts. I'll have to think what'd be a good Mage equivalent at this point.
Wyvern Knight: Noted. That sounds better.
Thief/Spy/Scavenger: What if we replaced Power Of The Underdog with Awakening's "Underdog" where it was just a flat +Hit and Evasion against enemies with a higher level (with promotion counting as Level+20)
And the Thief's Overdeveloped Sense of Self Preservation acts as a sort of "Canto" ability after unlocking doors (so that, if there's a big enemy behind it, the thief can quickly back up and allow others to get in and hold the new chokepoint), or maybe even that AND unlocking chests (unless that seems more like a Rogue ability)
Just pitching alternatives; Vision for all three, with Steal/Ambush/Scavenge Gold to differentiate them is still on the table.
Sorry for the terseness and if I came off aggressive, I'm not feeling well at the moment.
Post by: Solymr on October 06, 2014, 05:35:53 am
Judgement: one personal idea I had was flat +5 plus Level - MT bonus up to 20, which would bring the maximum MT up to 25.
As for Druidic Magic it also sounds good, but they could have a higher level limit due to Dark Magic's nature of being more powerful but less accurate. Also a question: why do you separate Anima into Fire Wind and Thunder specific tomes?
Benediction: thing is, there's another part to it that prevents getting knocked down to 0 the first time, so unless the roll and the saving are mutually exclusive, an Inquisitor could force a miss on the counter attack and then survive the boss attack on the enemy phase with 1 HP.
Assassin: that's what I had in mind too, but some people can't wrap their heads around the idea of losing a weapon even when there are S ranks involved :v
Also on the hidden weapons matter, why not make them not have rank, but still apply the WT reduction bonus from proficiency? And even if their WT is excessive, people will still try to get doubles with them, so if your intention is for them to only attack once you should give them the "Only one attack" property like Apocalypse has (siege magic could use this too).
Magic trinity: if you want to diversify builds, not everyone needs to have that possibility (think of the swordsmen, Hero has nothing for magic and he's OK), and you've done a great special with the Myrmidon and the Samurai. In this case Shaman probably doesn't need STR viability (unless you make the summons scale with it).
As for a Mage special, people here could help with an idea :v
Thief trinity: still not sure. Problem is everyone levels the same here, and GMs use higher level opponents most of the time. I think the Scavenger's weapon versatility and Scavenge Gold are enough for him. As for OSSP, I would extend the canto to unlock and steals. They can go with two specials since all they have is one type of weapon and steal is slightly less useful than Scavenge Gold.
Another case of free stats is Hot Start and Slow Start. IMO they should get axed completely.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on October 06, 2014, 07:45:10 am
I think the lockpick canto is good for OSSP. And I agree with Solymr on the Power of the Underdog- that's going to activate all the time, basically. How about this for an alternative?
This Will Be Useful: When the Scavenger lands a killing blow, the Scavenger gets +10 hit/def until their next phase.
In fluff terms, it's the Scavenger grabbing a piece of armor or something else off of their victim, and (briefly) using it to give them an advantage.
Post by: Sirus on October 06, 2014, 10:50:47 am
This Will Be Useful: When the Scavenger lands a killing blow, the Scavenger gets +10 hit/def until their next phase.+10 DEF? Do you mean Evade?
In fluff terms, it's the Scavenger grabbing a piece of armor or something else off of their victim, and (briefly) using it to give them an advantage.
Post by: Khaiel on October 07, 2014, 06:26:49 am
Yes, he means Evade.This Will Be Useful: When the Scavenger lands a killing blow, the Scavenger gets +10 hit/def until their next phase.+10 DEF? Do you mean Evade?
In fluff terms, it's the Scavenger grabbing a piece of armor or something else off of their victim, and (briefly) using it to give them an advantage.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on October 07, 2014, 09:23:13 am
Yes, yes I do.Yes, he means Evade.This Will Be Useful: When the Scavenger lands a killing blow, the Scavenger gets +10 hit/def until their next phase.+10 DEF? Do you mean Evade?
In fluff terms, it's the Scavenger grabbing a piece of armor or something else off of their victim, and (briefly) using it to give them an advantage.
Post by: Solymr on October 13, 2014, 08:21:08 am
Making icons for every item (icons like in the games' inventaries).
Such as this ones here:
http://www.feplanet.net/sprites-archive-items/10
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on October 13, 2014, 09:42:39 am
Post by: Sirus on October 14, 2014, 02:34:46 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on October 14, 2014, 07:53:05 am
Of course, the best part of shipping in FEF is that (with some... Exceptions) almost all of it is canon!
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on October 14, 2014, 07:57:29 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on October 14, 2014, 08:02:06 am
What exceptions? Haskitty's favorite FEF1 yaoi ship? :P
That's pretty much it yeah.
Post by: Haspen on October 14, 2014, 08:58:53 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on October 14, 2014, 09:28:35 am
Post by: Haspen on October 14, 2014, 09:30:02 am
Besides he has no pairing unless you count Ernest(corpse).
Post by: Culise on October 14, 2014, 09:48:37 am
Bi ain't gay :PWhat about Chris/pile-of-dust (Prixima)? He is bi, after all, and he even got her flowers. ^_^
Besides he has no pairing unless you count Ernest(corpse).
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on October 14, 2014, 10:01:41 am
Post by: Parsely on October 14, 2014, 10:55:16 am
Almost didn't recognize you with the new avatar, Culise. XDI keep mistaking her for Twi because she used to have a twirling animu avatar.
Post by: Solymr on October 14, 2014, 11:19:52 am
Iron Sword: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/ironsword.png)
Devil Sword: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/devilsword.png)
Slim Sword: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/slimsword.png)
Iron Rapier: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/ironrapier.png)
Iron Blade: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/ironblade.png)
Wooden Sword: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/woodensword.png)
Iron Knife: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/ironknife.png)
Iron Dagger: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/irondagger.png)
What do you think?
Post by: Haspen on October 14, 2014, 11:25:27 am
Post by: Parsely on October 14, 2014, 11:33:28 am
Post by: Solymr on October 14, 2014, 11:35:27 am
Maybe for the PCs but not for every enemy.
Also I'm doing this just for fun. If someone wants to make more images/use them in their GMing/add them to the handbook feel free to do so.
Post by: Culise on October 14, 2014, 11:54:51 am
Heh, I'll probably be switching back soon. I think the joke's pretty much outlived its origin, and the animation keeps distracting me every time I go through any thread I posted in at least once before. :PAlmost didn't recognize you with the new avatar, Culise. XDI keep mistaking her for Twi because she used to have a twirling animu avatar.
And you think you will find GM(s) who will be changing theoretically up to 50 image links per HP/Turn update? v:Honestly, as a practical matter, I'll probably have issues as the player trying to identify the icons by sight, since I've always been a bit bad at that; I'll end up going into the stats to find it written out in either case. The icons do look really quite nice, though. I don't think the wood sword looks too shiny, but that's probably because I think it just looks well-polished.
Post by: Sirus on October 14, 2014, 12:31:44 pm
There were no gay characters in FEF1, so there cannot be any yaoi ship, durr.You don't know much about shipping, do you? :v
It doesn't matter if two characters don't match orientation-wise, or if they've never met, or if they're not even in the same universe. Someone, somewhere, will ship them.
Post by: Haspen on October 14, 2014, 12:45:32 pm
Post by: Sirus on October 14, 2014, 12:48:08 pm
Post by: Solymr on October 14, 2014, 02:58:48 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on October 14, 2014, 06:18:50 pm
Coincidentally this is also the birthday of an off-line friend of mine. :P
Post by: Sirus on October 14, 2014, 07:10:36 pm
Post by: Culise on October 14, 2014, 08:46:18 pm
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t317/Culise/Smilies/birthday.gif)
Happy birthday, Sirus and unidentified-mystery-friend-not-on-Bay-12. ^_^
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on October 14, 2014, 09:58:12 pm
Post by: Parsely on October 15, 2014, 01:06:16 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on October 15, 2014, 01:10:28 am
Post by: Tiruin on October 15, 2014, 01:40:24 am
So, I have some games from the latest Humble Bundles that I don't really want. Any fellow FEF'rs interested in Osmos, Super Hexagon, Zen Bound 2, Critical Mass, Zombie Tycoon 2, or Over The Top Tower Defense?May I take up Osmos? :3
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on October 15, 2014, 02:18:39 am
Post by: Solymr on October 19, 2014, 09:37:36 am
Spies promoting from Archer trainees would get Bows, and Spies promoting from Thief traines would get Swords.
That way there's no problem with Assassins having only one weapon.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on October 28, 2014, 08:31:59 am
So, I have some games from the latest Humble Bundles that I don't really want. Any fellow FEF'rs interested inOsmos, Super Hexagon, Zen Bound 2, Critical Mass,Zombie Tycoon 2, orOver The Top Tower Defense?
If links don't expire, the non-struck-through above games are still available, as is Zafehouse: Diaries. :P Just throwing that out there.
Post by: Solymr on October 31, 2014, 10:01:02 am
Quickdraw: the character can change weapons after attacking.
Post by: Xanmyral on October 31, 2014, 12:20:44 pm
EDIT: SerCon, if no one takes Zafehouse, I'll snag it if you don't mind.
Post by: Swordstar on October 31, 2014, 12:27:18 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on October 31, 2014, 08:20:18 pm
To jump on the free games train, I got seven Sid Meier Humble Bundle games that I don't want/already have, so does anyone want these?:
Spoiler: Give Away (click to show/hide)
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on October 31, 2014, 08:25:15 pm
Post by: birdy51 on October 31, 2014, 09:38:23 pm
Sounds like a good skill to me.
To jump on the free games train, I got seven Sid Meier Humble Bundle games that I don't want/already have, so does anyone want these?:Spoiler: Give Away (click to show/hide)
I suppose I'll take Civ V off your hands. I've never tried the series, but it looks interesting.
On topic though, whatever happened to the testing thread?
Post by: Tiruin on October 31, 2014, 10:12:04 pm
Sounds like a good skill to me.Civ III please? :D
To jump on the free games train, I got seven Sid Meier Humble Bundle games that I don't want/already have, so does anyone want these?:Spoiler: Give Away (click to show/hide)
((Have fun Birdy with both Civ V games :P ))
Also I'm not sure someone made the testing thread?
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on November 01, 2014, 04:03:03 am
Post by: Dwarmin on November 01, 2014, 08:36:47 am
Xanmyral, do you still have Civ V: Gods and Kings? I'd like that...
Post by: Haspen on November 01, 2014, 08:55:01 am
:P
Post by: Dwarmin on November 01, 2014, 08:59:16 am
Gasp, a wild Dwarmin have arrived!
:P
I was only a temporary Fire Emblem-r! I don't owe anyone money, do I?
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on November 01, 2014, 09:00:27 am
Post by: Sirus on November 01, 2014, 10:35:17 am
Post by: mastahcheese on November 03, 2014, 11:55:43 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Some critique would be appreciated. :3
Post by: Parsely on November 03, 2014, 01:02:56 pm
Post by: mastahcheese on November 03, 2014, 01:09:58 pm
What a mysterious hat.Me and GiglameshDespair have concluded that the "hat" is actually an alien life form.
Post by: Swordstar on November 03, 2014, 01:25:44 pm
Some random FEF sprites I made for practice.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Some critique would be appreciated. :3
The shading feels... off in some of them, especially the last one's shoulder/trim on his coat. Same with the collar on the girl. You seem to have cut their shoulders off awkwardly for a lot of them. Also the colors are rather.... something. :P Uh... Head of the second one doesn't seem to quite fit? Too small for how big the shoulders are maybe, also awkwardly positioned. Also I think you C/P'd a lot of things over other ones, which is fine, that's how you're supposed to splice, but then you didn't go in and fix the pixels on the edges of where you c/p'd. Biggest offenders are the first and third on this one. I'd need to take a more indepth look to figure out anything else, but that's just from a first look.
Post by: Xanmyral on November 03, 2014, 01:27:49 pm
Generic:
Use the skin color for anything white/gold/tan-ish, the clothes typically little more than three variations of colors (with leather counting as a color if present), making sure the borders are of the same color (dark purple and light purple borders together look odd, for example). A good rule of thumb is this: if you only use a color in a single (small) place (say the leather of a belt), question if you should put it other places (would it fit on the gloves or collar, maybe the cloak), or see if you can substitute it with a color you're already using (maybe the darker skin tones would work better than the brown). These are just some examples of things I do, and there's always times when its best one should deviate.
Spoiler: For specifics (Left to Right): (click to show/hide)
Post by: Swordstar on November 03, 2014, 01:36:47 pm
Post by: mastahcheese on November 03, 2014, 03:48:37 pm
I think a lot of the problem is that I may have some slight colorblindness (I talked with GiglyD about it) so I don't see dark colors very well, and end up making them too bright.
For example, the hair in the 4th picture (the only female) is actually too dark for me to see the detail lines in.
Post by: Swordstar on November 03, 2014, 03:51:22 pm
Post by: Parsely on November 03, 2014, 04:52:17 pm
Post by: adwarf on November 03, 2014, 11:22:21 pm
-----------------------------------------------------------
Essentially this system is a way for players to use gold to recruit mooks that will aid them in battles.
Mercenaries are for the most part simple, low powered NPCs that the recruiting players give basic orders to for them to follow. Fine control is left to the GM, and mercenaries are not likely to throw their lives away for nothing.
Recruitment of Mercenaries is handled between missions with the party able to recruit a small pool of mercenaries, this pool grows up to a certain limit after the players have recruited a mercenary captain, and then grows once more after they've recruited a mercenary commander.
Mercenaries are paid for every mission they participate in, if the players are unable to pay the mercenaries then they will refuse to work for them and the players will lose their support.
Alongside the introduction of Mercenaries and their recruitment the player party also gets a reputation rating which determines how much the mercenaries will charge the players if they'll even work for them. Reputation goes up for every mercenary that survives a battle, and goes down for every mercenary that dies. If every mercenary is wiped out in a mission then your reputation drops massively. If the party's reputation gets low enough the mercenaries will refuse to work for them.
Mercenaries do not die when their HP reaches 0, instead they get downed much like a named npcs except that the mercenaries only get a death counter of 1
Mercenary Cap:
Base - 1 Mercenary
With Captain - 3 Mercenaries (Including the Captain)
With Commander - 5 Mercenaries (Including the Commander)
Spoiler: Reputation (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Orders (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Mercenary Units (click to show/hide)
-------
I've been mulling over making this system for a while now, and I've finally gotten around to it. Thanks to Blade for supplying the progression, and stat sheets that are used for the units here.
Post by: Haspen on November 09, 2014, 12:21:41 pm
rejoice
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 09, 2014, 12:51:40 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on November 11, 2014, 05:43:35 am
Super Hexagon
Zenbound 2
Critical Mass
Home
Five Nights At Freddy's
Amnesia: A Machine For Pigs
*RoR (I have four copies of this, so, don't feel guilty asking for one if you're even only mildly curious about it :P)
The Novelist
*Teleglitch: DME
Jazzpunk
Post by: Tiruin on November 11, 2014, 07:41:50 am
*Teleglitch: DMEI'd like one of this C:
...Though I've been considering to get games only to turn them as gifts to friends ><
Problem being that all my games are gifts ._. and Ican't provide.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on November 11, 2014, 09:23:16 am
Post by: Culise on November 11, 2014, 11:12:33 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on November 11, 2014, 11:19:14 am
Post by: Sirus on November 11, 2014, 11:28:35 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on November 11, 2014, 11:32:57 am
Post by: Xanmyral on November 11, 2014, 01:34:23 pm
Post by: Culise on November 11, 2014, 08:06:23 pm
Sure thing. One down, three to go. ^^^Thank you very much. I've just redeemed it, and I look forward to giving it a whirl.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on November 11, 2014, 08:52:40 pm
Post by: CecilHoshino on November 12, 2014, 03:49:08 am
So, some responses:
- On the original FEF's wrap on: Congratulations, and thank you for the constant stress testing, leading to such much needed changes as the Guard nerf.
- On the Mercenary system: It's a neat idea, but probably something of a supplementary system, not incorporated in the main book itself. Kinda reminds me of the Reinforce skill, but a lot cleaner at least, so it's already miles better.
- On Quickdraw: It'd definitely have to be a Cost skill, considering all the benefits that come with it; giving a significant power boost to any class that has Bows and something else for melee in their arsenal, while potentially taking away the advantage crossbows have over other bows, firing into melee; being incredibly thrifty with your weapons without investing in Weapon Saver by using a super powered weapon to make an attack, and then switching to something Steel or Iron for all the counter attacks. And even with Cost, I feel there should be some limitations.
- On Spy Weapon Ranks: That's actually a really good idea, and I'm ashamed I hadn't considered it, earlier. Allows the Spy to feel more competitive, combat-wise, really cleans up the whole confusion going into Assassin, and Master Spy can still lay claim to having both Swords AND Bows as an advantage.
- On Momentum and Hot Start: The thing is, I want to keep the general idea of Duke Knights being very effective early in the fight/dangerous when GMs use them as enemies early in a battle, with Great Knights being very effective late in the battle/dangerous when GMs use them as back-line of defence. Free stats was an easy way to do this, based off Slow Burn and Quick Burn from FE13, but if there were a less free-stats way to maintain the theme, I'd be open to ideas. I'll think about it.
- On the Anima Subcategories: The idea was to always have Fire, Thunder, and Wind separated into their three categories, since in FE's 4&5, 9&10, and 13, there was always that division. Factor in the clear divide between Sword styles (Mercenary Blades vs Myrmidon Wo Dao knock-offs vs FE9&10 Daggers and Knives) and the creation of the subcategories became a thing, some harder to come up with than others, naturally. Speaking of...
- On Judgment and Druidic Magic (and also Overdeveloped Sense of Self Preservation): The options we discussed in the thread I like, and will be going forward into the next iteration of the handbook. Speaking of...
- On the GM's Guidebook: Still no progress on that. Sorry :C School's been rough, like, real rough, to the point where I'm starting to worry about my health, so I've been getting that looked at, first.
Post by: Solymr on November 12, 2014, 05:21:52 am
On Duke/Great Knights: they already have differences that allow them to perform differently. DK has the special that encourages moving fast and hitting hard, while GK is slower, is promoted from a very tank class and has less MOV. If you want more differences you could focus the promotion bonuses on offensive stats for DK and defensive stats for GK (even if GK already gets the biggest HP boost).
Quickdraw: I thought of that but I don't think it requires more restrictions that being cost. Crossbows still have their niche, and First tier classes don't have much for weapon variety. Still, I made Weapon Saver free so there's still much to discuss :v
By the way, we need a clarification on Sanctuary. I tweaked it in my game after a big argument on IRC, now that there's the first Bishop PC we couldn't agree on how to do it.
Post by: Haspen on November 12, 2014, 05:48:16 am
- On the original FEF's wrap on: Congratulations, and thank you for the constant stress testing, leading to such much needed changes as the Guard nerf.
/me feels all warm and fuzzy inside :3
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on November 12, 2014, 08:19:29 am
By the way, we need a clarification on Sanctuary. I tweaked it in my game after a big argument on IRC, now that there's the first Bishop PC we couldn't agree on how to do it.
In an effort to make a clarification that everyone understands, I'll describe how I understand what's in the book, and what will consequently be used in my game unless otherwise noted.
Quote from: From the books
Special: Sanctuary
Activated Effect
On their turn, a character with this skill can set up a zone 3 spaces in all four directions around the character. Anyone within this zone is protected from all sides; no attacks, or any unit, can enter the zone. However, this goes for allies as well; allies have to be near the character to receive sanctuary, and their own attacks cannot
pass through the bishop’s zone of protection. The character can move on their turn, and, likewise, the zone will move with them. However, the character cannot move to where the zone of sanctuary would no longer shield someone initially in the circle.
What the Zone does: The Bishop sets up a zone three spaces out by using their action that they might otherwise use to use a staff or attack someone. Any unit who was standing in the radius is now immune to attacks made from outside the zone, or rather attacks can no longer target anyone inside the zone. Any unit outside the zone cannot go inside the zone once it is up. Units inside the zone may leave as part of a standard move action. Attacks can't be made from the inside of the zone to the outside, but mechanically, attacks made from the inside of the zone to the inside of the zone aren't restricted.
How the Zone is maintained: The description says nothing about how long the zone lasts, so there's a lot of assumptions here. First of all, and this is one of the points of conflict Solymr and I had over the skill, I think a field that No-Sells anything you throw at it for 3 spaces out in every direction is pretty powerful, and must be maintained, so the Bishop has to spend their action maintaining the zone each turn. If they get performed, they can do something else as well. If the zone is unmaintained, it falls at the end of the Player Phase after the last maintained phase.
Example: Artur the Bishop used Sanctuary on Phase 1. He maintains on Phase 2. He releases the zone on Phase 3, preparing for battle. The zone falls at the end of player phase 3.
This interpretation makes sense to me, because if the zone just fell apart at the beginning of the next player phase, not only would allies be able to shuffle around with no trouble before the Bishop recreates the zone, but the line about the zone moving with the Bishop would make no sense.
Moving the Zone: The Bishop can only move to and through spaces where there are not units within 3 spaces of the space. Additionally, if there are any units inside the zone, the bishop can only move while not removing them from the field. So, say the Bishop has four allies sitting as far right as they can go and still be in the zone. The bishop, ready to advance through empty territory threatened only by Siege Magic and Ballistae, moves forward. He can only go four spaces, however. Two allies would be forced out of the zone were the Bishop to advance beyond this. Again, performers can help with this, but it is a necessary drawback of the effect.
I think that's that all explained, as I see it.
Post by: CecilHoshino on November 12, 2014, 03:45:22 pm
Now, for Sanctuary...
What the Zone does: You pretty much got it with your understanding of it; it requires the Bishop's action to erect, no one gets in from the outside, attacks from outside cannot be made within, and attacks from inside cannot go out. Although, there was one other stipulation I had in mind: attacks inside the zone cannot be declared, either. It's essentially an "everyone play nice" zone, making the area sacred, and thus, holy ground that won't have blood spilled upon it. There are still several actions that can be taken within the zone: Performances, Healing, and Buffs primarily. These can also affect people outside the Zone of Sanctuary; if a Dance or Play is in range to affect an ally outside the zone, it can; if someone has a Physic Staff or any of the Buff staffs, they can use it from within the zone to target those outside. Debuff and Ailment staffs do not work inside or outside the zone, though; using holy ground as a shield to influence your allies outside might be questionable, or, charitably, pragmatic, but hiding behind sanctuary to cripple your opponents, including driving them insane or poisoning them, is just a dick move.
There's also passive buffs and debuffs that aren't affected by the Zone of Sanctuary: bonuses from Supports, Personal Skills, and Charisma can all affect anyone in range outside the zone, and you can still Daunt an enemy or trigger their own Personal Faults if applicable even from within the Sanctuary.
How the Zone is maintained: Speaking of using Healing and Buff staffs from within the zone, hopefully that means you had another staff user in there with you already; like you assumed, it requires constant Action from the Bishop to maintain it. Even a Performance wouldn't allow the Bishop to take a separate action during their turn; the only other thing they're allowed to do besides Move or Maintain is Trade. Anything else and the zone drops at the end of the current Player Phase.
Moving the Zone: That's the right interpretation.
To prevent a wall of text in the character page, I'll only update Sanctuary to include the line about Maintaining the field. For every other rule and errata we discussed, that will go in the Special Situations rules. With diagrams. I like diagrams.
Post by: Solymr on November 12, 2014, 03:57:56 pm
Also did you see item icons? Only a few swords are done, but if you likey we can make more :3
(still no idea for nature spirits)
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on November 12, 2014, 04:21:57 pm
Post by: Solymr on November 12, 2014, 04:29:13 pm
Since Sages use HP for call magic and Mages are supposed to be all naturey, I thought of some sort of meditate special: by using an action the Mage can recover some HP.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on November 12, 2014, 05:13:01 pm
SUDDENLY IDEA
Since Sages use HP for call magic and Mages are supposed to be all naturey, I thought of some sort of meditate special: by using an action the Mage can recover some HP.
I like this idea, but can we get some mechanical specifics?
Post by: Solymr on November 12, 2014, 05:20:38 pm
But none of the promotions use STR anymore (before 1.3 MK could use the higher or STR or MAG).
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on November 12, 2014, 05:35:57 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on November 12, 2014, 06:39:22 pm
Or something mischievous, such as trapping a priest without Physic and playing keep away with the enemies. Priest wouldn't be able to reach the wounded allies, although that would require a bit of work in prevention.
I also assume traps are rendered harmless while within a sanctuary?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on November 12, 2014, 07:39:16 pm
And I suppose it'd keep traps from activating, not that they get used even in games where they were implemented.
Post by: Xanmyral on November 12, 2014, 09:59:25 pm
Post by: Solymr on November 13, 2014, 06:45:36 am
Well center already kinda does that. More importantly that can easily go well beyond hp costs of call magic spells or even weak attacks, which seems really good for a first class skill.I know center does it and does it better, but look at Merc's passive, Charisma/Daunt do it better. Also unlike Center or self-healing, Meditate would use an action.
And there's the thing that if you put a lot of prog into STR to abuse healing you won't have much left for the rest of stats (which is why I consider Center/Imbue balanced).
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on November 13, 2014, 09:57:56 am
How about Mage's getting HP back based on their CON score instead of STR?
Post by: Solymr on November 13, 2014, 10:04:26 am
Edit: this reminds me, Troubadours promoting from trainees have less CON than if they started from first class.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on November 13, 2014, 10:14:00 am
Oh, another thing I thought about- There is no way beyond promotion to increase your CON beyond items, and if you wind up needing that CON more than you thought, well, you're out of luck.
Maybe as an additional option at promotion, instead of adding 5% progression rate to one of your stats, you can choose to add one point to CON instead?
Post by: Solymr on November 13, 2014, 10:42:10 am
Also interesting that last part. 5% equals one extra point in 20 levels so I think it's a good trade-off.
Post by: Xanmyral on November 13, 2014, 03:13:34 pm
Post by: Sirus on November 13, 2014, 03:17:39 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on November 13, 2014, 03:23:35 pm
Raises the question as to if one could, instead of getting those four bonus points you would get at CharGen, cash in an extra 20% progression though.
I'd argue against that, myself. Plus you wouldn't be able to trade in that 5% for one point of any stat, just CON.
Post by: CecilHoshino on November 14, 2014, 02:34:33 am
Also, about your concern with Sanctuary's lack of bully potential...well, I do have a LITTLE teaser for the upcoming GM Handbook/Beastiary: Enemy units get little buffs to their abilities, ESPECIALLY if they're bosses. For instance, Boss Bishops "lose" Sanctuary, and instead get...
Inquisition
Activated Effect
On their turn, a character with this skill can set up a zone 3 spaces in all four directions around the character. Anyone within this zone cannot exit, but anyone outside the zone cannot enter. As well, attacks from outside the zone cannot pass through to target anyone within. Attacks from inside the zone cannot go outside the zone, but attacks made against legal targets within the zone are permitted. Long range Healing staffs can also leave the zone, but Debuff and Buff staffs cannot. While the zone is active, character who activated this skill must continually use their action to maintain it; if they do not, the zone falls at the end of their phase.
(first draft)
This skill is also given to Inquisitor bosses in place of Benediction, because it just wouldn't seem right to not have the two go together (and I also couldn't think of a better thematic opposite to Sanctuary). And also because GM's publicly making called shots for the boss is, while remarkably honest, still pretty bullshit.
*guilty cough*
Oh! And those weapon icons? I really like them! I might use them in the book, maybe, not entirely sure. I do know the next (1.4 or 1.3something) is going to include a section detailing some of the more unique weapons (Why does a Claymore have 1-2 range for a Sword? Because it's a Big F'KING Sword. What the crap is White Lightning and why is it effective vs Dragons? Because if at first you don't succeed, zap them with your Blue Eyes again (http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Blue-Eyes_White_Dragon)! Among others)
Post by: Solymr on November 14, 2014, 06:48:25 am
Also now that you mention Judgement, here's how I made it work in my game, in a way that it's (mostly) equalized.
Judgement magic is effective vs Class trees:
*Flash is effective vs Archer trainee tree except Spy tree.
*Prelude is effective vs Soldier trainees except Social Knight tree.
*Thani is effective vs Performer trainee tree.
*Ray is effective vs Rider trainee tree.
*Leviathan is effective vs Priest trainee tree.
*Sleppnir is effective vs Thief trainee tree.
*Valaura is now named Inquisition and is effective vs Mage trainee tree except Monk tree.
*God Hand is effective vs Fighter trainee tree.
*Avalon is effective vs Swordsman trainee tree.
*Inquisition is now named Valaura and is effective vs Monk tree.
*White Lightning is effective vs Humans.
*Creiddylad is effective vs Non-humans.
Post by: Swordstar on November 14, 2014, 07:13:04 am
Post by: Solymr on November 14, 2014, 07:28:56 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on November 14, 2014, 09:50:34 am
But nobody uses Dragons regularly and Monsters/Undead have Anima subcats vs them :v
White Lightning and Creiddylad are S level magic- It doesn't matter that the target enemy is rare, because using the tome is supposed to be rare!
And I actually really like the idea of there being class skills with designated Boss variants- Helps to explain what makes the boss such hot shit. Also also agree that enemy units probably shouldn't get roll-calling.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on November 23, 2014, 10:16:50 am
So, proposed alternate ability that is a little more flexible in exchange for less power.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Swordstar on November 23, 2014, 02:53:03 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on November 23, 2014, 02:55:22 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on November 23, 2014, 02:58:37 pm
That... is a significant drop in power and I'm not a fan. :/
It is also much, much more flexible this way. But I guess I see your point.
Well, to be honest, after seeing it being used in NoH I'm actually inclined to believe Sanctuary is a terrible ability in general. It sounds awesome on paper but in practice it's basically 'anyone outside the zone is completely screwed, anyone inside the zone can't do anything without leaving and therefore becoming screwed, and the bishop becomes useless for two turns'.
Yeeeeeep. As stated previously, it's only really useful when all your team is clustered in one spot and are dying. At any other point, it's a nuisance.
Post by: Swordstar on November 23, 2014, 02:59:05 pm
Post by: Solymr on November 23, 2014, 02:59:54 pm
Post by: Swordstar on November 23, 2014, 03:19:28 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on November 23, 2014, 03:24:58 pm
I'd rather make it drop at the start of the player phase on exchange of not using it for some turns.
But that leads to the problem of players closing the distance, attacking, and then the shield goes up and the enemy can do nothing on their phase, and the next turn the team can just attack again. Sure it can only be used every few turns, but it'd be almost like a mass performance, except instead of doubling what you can do in one phase, it just negates an enemy phase. That's seriously OP.
Honestly? I don't think it can be fixed. Just my opinion maybe, but I just think it sounds cool but is impossible to put up a balanced version in practice
And Swordstar may be right.
Post by: Solymr on November 23, 2014, 03:31:26 pm
Post by: Swordstar on November 23, 2014, 03:37:43 pm
Post by: Solymr on November 23, 2014, 03:50:39 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on November 23, 2014, 03:55:33 pm
Quote from: Benevolence
The character with this skill does not begin dying when they reach 0 hp, and instead becomes Stunned. Stunned characters cannot move, act, or evade. Enemies will not target a stunned character while other opportunities present themselves. Stun can be removed by any healing. If a stunned character takes any damage, they begin dying as normal.
It's not because you gave your party a full turn to recover in the middle of a gruesome battle anyways.
Yeah, and then you've blown your class specific wad for the entire fight, and then you're done with your special Tier 2 ability until the next map.
Post by: Solymr on November 23, 2014, 03:58:50 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on November 23, 2014, 04:01:38 pm
Just like Inquisitor's Benediction, right?
At least that's in two parts. Plus it has no downsides, unlike Sanctuary.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on November 27, 2014, 12:14:32 am
Spoiler: Proposal 1 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Proposal 2 (click to show/hide)
Also, a question Xanmyral brought up that I find compelling, why are Dancers (visual primarily) the long range performance while Bards (auditory primarily) are the short range performance?
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on November 27, 2014, 01:16:04 am
Post by: Solymr on November 27, 2014, 02:23:28 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on November 27, 2014, 02:27:14 am
Post by: darkpaladin109 on November 27, 2014, 03:20:53 am
Post by: Sirus on November 27, 2014, 04:06:58 am
Post by: Tiruin on November 27, 2014, 06:44:33 am
I feel like people are forgetting that dancers can perform for maximum 2 people, not just 1.I feel like the emphasis on Performer TRAINEEs and Dancers/Bards should be...made more. :P
Post by: birdy51 on November 27, 2014, 01:31:18 pm
Performances outshine anything else they can do, making their other abilities painfully obsolete. However... An idea.
Performers are nerfed to only performing on one person. Dancers retain the ability to perform at a range. As a consequence, their new quirk is that while performing they can choose to buff their ally by expending one of their Instrument/Dances. Less double turns and more buffs.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on November 27, 2014, 01:35:05 pm
Post by: birdy51 on November 27, 2014, 01:37:36 pm
That's the enchanter's gimmick: performing and buffing at the same time.
Yes, yes it is. I'm saying it should become a "not gimmick" and more of a supported action. It's too damn cool not to be available for everyone.
A new gimmick can be found for the Enchanter that supports the change.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on November 27, 2014, 01:44:34 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on November 27, 2014, 01:46:24 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on November 27, 2014, 01:47:48 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on November 27, 2014, 01:51:32 pm
And I disagree with the idea of Enchanter's special going to first class performers- they're strong enough.
Post by: birdy51 on November 27, 2014, 01:55:13 pm
Equalization.
Once the ability to perform for multiple people as a base ability is removed, the ability to perform for multiple people at once becomes a prime ability to have and a bonus as opposed to being expected. The change for the Enchanter could be as simple as they gain the ability to perform for two or more people at once and apply the same buff to both of them.
Post by: Solymr on November 27, 2014, 03:12:04 pm
Post by: Haspen on November 27, 2014, 03:14:08 pm
I think the performers are good as they are. As long as it's limited to 1 per game.
/me grumbles.
Where were you when FEF2 started :P
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on November 27, 2014, 04:04:00 pm
Post by: Sirus on November 27, 2014, 04:48:25 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on November 27, 2014, 05:17:43 pm
Post by: birdy51 on November 27, 2014, 06:11:51 pm
Seems to me that if a GM needs to artificially limit how many of a class can be present before it becomes a balance issue, it already is a balance issue.
I'm in agreement as well.
To me, there is a major issue when you have one unit that effectively can turn 2 units into an effective force of 4 units for a round, let alone 4 to 8. There is also an issue of an entire class of characters who don't use the base items that they've been given. Why do they even have instruments/dances/lyrics if they never get to use them because they are too busy performing?
Performers in this respect don't have to buy anything because their base abilities are already good enough. Which denies them meaningful progression. All other units in the game feel they are getting stronger due to their stats and weapons doing more for them, but by forcing Performers into this one niche, we prevent performers from making decisions.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on November 27, 2014, 06:19:54 pm
@Birdy: That's also partially the GMs fault. The only performance item I can recall getting is a Hermes Whistle for Powder's character in Gates of Rundum. There will quite likely be situations where +5 RES is more desirable than another turn, but if the party tends to prioritize buying damage-dealers and the GM figures double-turning is good enough that no performance-related loot is required, then you have a situation where yeah... that's all performers can do.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on November 27, 2014, 09:29:59 pm
And while it's true that a party of seven performers, a knight and a priest wouldn't work, I think that's the far end of a bell curve.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on November 27, 2014, 09:42:09 pm
It's all in how people play. Maybe you guys should just let it ride for awhile and see if it becomes a big problem later.
Post by: darkpaladin109 on November 28, 2014, 04:20:44 am
Post by: Solymr on November 28, 2014, 06:33:45 am
Seriously there's a simple solution to this balance problem and some people keep wanting to hit them with the nerf bat.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 28, 2014, 08:52:19 am
You could technically have a party of all mages, or all bandits, or whatever, as well, and they'd run into similar problems of lack of flexibility. It's reasonable to expect players not to be total morons.
Post by: birdy51 on November 28, 2014, 09:09:41 am
We got one of the Dancer's items in FOE's game, iirc.
Have you had the chance to use it yet?
Post by: mastahcheese on November 28, 2014, 09:26:23 am
I'm honestly suprised to hear that performance items are so rare, as I found them to be the most interesting thing to read in the book.
I honestly think that performers should get Instruments (E), so they can do more than a single thing, to compensate.
Post by: Swordstar on November 28, 2014, 10:35:57 am
Post by: Solymr on November 28, 2014, 10:55:49 am
Swords:
Iron Sword: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/sword/slsh-e1-ironsword.png)
Devil Sword: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/sword/slsh-e2-devilsword.png)
Slim Sword: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/sword/thru-e1-slimsword.png)
Iron Rapier: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/sword/thru-e2-ironrapier.png)
Iron Blade: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/sword/crsh-e1-ironblade.png)
Wooden Sword: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/sword/crsh-e2-woodensword.png)
Iron Knife: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/sword/side-e1-ironknife.png)
Iron Dagger: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/sword/side-e2-irondagger.png)
Lances:
Iron Lance: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/lance/pier-e1-ironlance.png)
Slim Lance: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/lance/pier-e2-slimlance.png)
Iron Javelin: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/lance/sper-e1-ironjavelin.png)
Iron Pilum: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/lance/sper-e2-ironpilum.png)
Iron Halberd: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/lance/pole-e1-ironhalberd.png)
Iron Pike: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/lance/pole-e2-ironpike.png)
Axes:
Iron Axe: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/axe/hack-e1-ironaxe.png)
Devil Axe: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/axe/hack-e2-devilaxe.png)
Iron Staff: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/axe/bldg-e1-staff.png)
Iron Club: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/axe/bldg-e2-ironclub.png)
Handaxe: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/axe/thrw-e1-handaxe.png)
Hatchet: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/axe/thrw-e2-hatchet.png)
Bows:
Iron Bow: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/bow/recu-e1-ironbow.png)
Training Bow: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/bow/recu-e2-trainingbow.png)
Iron Longbow: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/bow/long-e1-ironlongbow.png)
Mountain Longbow: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/bow/long-e2-mountainlongbow.png)
Bowgun: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/bow/xbow-e1-bowgun.png)
Conposite Crossbow: (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/icons/bow/xbow-e2-compositexbow.png)
I don't like how some of them ended (especially iron club) so if someone can do a better version I appreciate it.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 28, 2014, 11:36:44 am
Post by: Solymr on November 28, 2014, 11:40:49 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 28, 2014, 12:05:02 pm
Post by: CecilHoshino on November 29, 2014, 05:09:47 pm
Sanctuary
Activated Effect
By using an action, the Bishop can create a protective aura around an allied unit for up to 5 (arbitrary number) turns. While the aura is around the ally, they cannot be targeted by enemy attacks, spells, or ailments. However, if, at any time, the allied unit attacks an enemy or attempts to apply an ailment to an enemy, whether they were successful or not, the aura is dispelled and they can be targeted by enemy actions again. This skill cannot be used while an ally is already under the effect of Sanctuary, and it cannot be used on the same ally consecutively.
As for Performers, they were just as game breaking in practice in standard FE games, as well, to the point where, aside from the early game Cavaliers, the early game prepromote, and the occasional tier breaker (ie: Ruthgar from FE6), Performers were basically first pick material in any draft run of a game (it's a thing that happens). If there is enough of a need to nerf, I can think of a few that might work well together.
- The party can only have, at max, two Performers
- Performers cannot use their skills on each other; Dancers cannot target other Performers, and Performers will be unaffected by Bards even if they're in range
- This is the big red button that could alter the entire course of things, but just might be what's needed to help translate Bards and Dancers from the games to the tabletop: Allies who are under the effect of a Performance do not get a second Attack or Ailment; they must use their second turn to do something else, like Move, Trade, Rescue, Heal, or Buff. Ideally, this also solves the issue of Lore Masters, Enchanters, and Blade Dancers having little reason to use their special techniques in favour of just spamming the Performance over and over, making it a choice of allowing an ally to attack and do something else vs a super attack, rather than the dominant strategy of two attacks.
As for why Dancers are the ranged Performance while Bards are the adjacent, that came from what their special Weapons are all about. I wanted to make Dances the debuffer to be used against enemies, while Bards were the party buffers. Also known as the Final Fantasy style. To accommodate for this, Dancers had to be able to target enemies without putting themselves in TOO much danger, thus they got the range option.
Lorewise, maybe in the heat of battle, it's hard to hear the Bard unless you're close to them, while you can still see the Dancer's sick moves.
Post by: Solymr on November 29, 2014, 05:15:01 pm
I think limit to 1 is the best option.
As for newSanctuary, reminds me of HoMM 4's Sanctuary spell. 5 turns might be a little too broken. And we'd have to test it anyways.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on November 29, 2014, 05:32:07 pm
As for the proposed new Sanctuary... Maybe. It'll be hard to make a call before any playtesting.
Post by: mastahcheese on November 29, 2014, 05:35:52 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on November 29, 2014, 05:38:58 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on November 29, 2014, 05:53:18 pm
As for the revised sanctuary, I'm personally not sure. I would see this primarily used on other healers (possibly the caster) or performers, since they won't break it, sorta akin to the DnD sanctuary.
It may lead to a situation where they cast it on said healer, and when it wears off they cast it on a person fighting so that it gets dispelled the same turn, so it can be cast on the healer the next turn again. Might be good to apply a clause where it restricts the affected from doing things that would break it on the turn that it's cast.
Spoiler: As a "see what sticks" idea about sanctuary, here's one: (click to show/hide)
Edits because I hate phones
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on November 29, 2014, 09:04:28 pm
Post by: CecilHoshino on December 01, 2014, 02:52:57 am
(this could be where 6 attacks/3 turns might come into play, in this example).
For my revised Sanctuary idea, yeah, 5 was just an arbitrary number picked at random. In practise, I think it'd be more reasonable lasting 2 or 3 rounds, depending on how test results show.
Even if we limited the Performer clause to just "no more than two," there should at least also be a stipulation of "No slow and steady performance chain," where one Performs for the other, then the other moves one space ahead but still adjacent to their ally and performs, then they in turn move on space ahead and performs, etc, etc, and suddenly you've crossed the map.
If the nuke button Option 3 was revised to "Allies can only make one Attack per Phase, whether that's their first turn, or the turn granted to them by performance" to allow for moving into position and THEN attacking (instead of limiting it to attacking and then moving into a new position), would it still be too much of a nerf, do you think?
Post by: Haspen on December 06, 2014, 06:12:40 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Solymr on December 06, 2014, 06:21:39 am
I would shift the DEF point to HP imo tho
Aboot sanctuary and performers: limited durability sanctuary looks cool to me. We should keep exploring other options. About the performnuke n3 I think it would be too much of a nerf, where one performer isn't much worth to the team.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on December 06, 2014, 10:22:56 am
Post by: Swordstar on December 06, 2014, 02:27:01 pm
Post by: Sirus on December 06, 2014, 02:30:01 pm
Also, the Supply Line auto-healing seems like quite a lot when it goes five spaces out. Three spaces might be more reasonable.Even though we got our butts kicked in NoH anyway?
Post by: Solymr on December 06, 2014, 02:32:24 pm
Don't go there in my thread bro.Also, the Supply Line auto-healing seems like quite a lot when it goes five spaces out. Three spaces might be more reasonable.Even though we got our butts kicked in NoH anyway?
On 0% prog: I allow it for better specialization. If it ends up as crippling overspecialization is not my problem.
Post by: Swordstar on December 06, 2014, 02:34:56 pm
(yes I'm aware you don't need to but it helps if you want to be split and also useful)
Post by: CecilHoshino on December 08, 2014, 05:44:45 pm
On the idea of the Mixed Character growth support, just throwing the idea out there, how about treating it like a Cost Skill? Start with 300 instead of 330 Growth Points to start with 20% in Strength and Magic. With a Cost Skill as well, that makes it a 270 start, but, since you'd want at least, like, 40-45 in both STR and MAG, that works out to a +10 bonus.
Having said that, you get into murky territory about what constitutes a "mixed class." Some are obvious: Scavenger, Troubadour. And some face a promotion prospect where they're going mixed either way, so it definitely wouldn't hurt: Fencer -> Crusader/Shadow Sword. But some are rather grey area. Archer can promote to Battle Mage, so they'd really like that mixed class bonus, but they could also promote to Sniper, which is all Bows. This also goes for Mercenary -> Commander, Pegasus Knight -> Valkyrie, Nomad -> Nomad Healer, and Thief -> Bounty Hunter.
I think it could still work, though, provided the player commits to their path, going from (Trainee to) First Class to that specific Promotion. And it sounds like it balances out to when you consider other classes (like, say, Brigand or Hero) can focus entirely on Strength, anyway, if they so choose. And if they want to make use of Magic Weapons and skills like Imbue, they can tool their kit specifically to that.
So, when it comes to the Supply Line, right now it's at 4 spaces out. I'm hearing that it's generally as effective at 3, although in some cases that 4-5 was a godsend? :P
Post by: Swordstar on December 08, 2014, 05:55:05 pm
Being able to put 0% in STR or MAG, how is that handled? Can, say, an archer put 0% in mag and str if they only plan on using crossbows?
Second, that's... no offense, kinda an icky way of handling it. You really only get 10% more growth which isn't a ton when you think about it. My thought was maybe at the time that you promote into something that has a rank in both magic and physical items, give them a bonus 20 or 30% It's not a ton, but it might help to make up for the discrepancy that comes from being mixed. It also allows the person to not say "Oh, my archer could promote into Battle Mage, I should get the extra growth" and then instead promote into Sniper
Post by: CecilHoshino on December 08, 2014, 07:13:57 pm
The 0% thing. You also missed the other rule: Every other stat HAS to have 10% in it, at least; you're only allowed to put 0% in your off-stat of Magic or Strength. So, in the case of the Archer with the Crossbow exclusivity, no, they can't just put 0% in STR, they have to have 10% at least. But they can leave it at 10% to go up to 70% in several other stats if they so choose, since 70% is the maximum growth rate for all stats at the start (except for HP, that can go to 100%). Given the mixed classes later, I suppose I could designate which classes need at least 10% STR and which need 10% MAG (and, in the case of Scavenger and Troubadour, 10% in both), but it should be fairly straight forward.
Again, it was just throwing it out there, first thing that popped into my head. What does everyone else think about the bonus growth on promotion to a mixed class?
Post by: Swordstar on December 08, 2014, 07:22:01 pm
Post by: Sirus on December 08, 2014, 07:28:27 pm
Post by: Swordstar on December 08, 2014, 08:13:36 pm
Post by: CecilHoshino on December 08, 2014, 08:40:41 pm
The issue with giving them that 20-30% boost on promotion, though, is that, if the stat's been neglected for the entire Trainee and First Class, that MAG stat is still going to look fairly sad without some investment from the start. Which, true, is the tradeoff those who want to make the class work take, but the promotion boost...I'm not sure it's as effective as to address it. Plus, it feeds into the "Free Stats" problem, doesn't it?
Post by: Solymr on December 09, 2014, 10:24:57 am
Well, I'm suprised nobody's talked about it here.
So Haspen made a custom alchemist class for FEF, and Xanmy was talking about making one for something, so I'm posting my lame ideas for classes here, since it seems like the most fitting place.
Mastahcheese's lame class ideas
First Classes:Spoiler: Sorcerer (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Skald (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Dervish (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Notes on First Classes (click to show/hide)
Promoted Classes:Spoiler: Snake Charmer (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Oracle (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Huntsman (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Harper (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Dragon Dancer (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Harlequin (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Notes on Promoted Classes (click to show/hide)Spoiler: And finally, some minor notes on flavor (click to show/hide)
Note that I don't have access to the books, so exact stats (and everything else, probably) still need to be figured out, but they're rough concepts.
Post by: mastahcheese on December 09, 2014, 11:18:17 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on December 12, 2014, 01:52:27 am
Post by: darkpaladin109 on December 12, 2014, 10:57:10 am
Post by: Culise on December 12, 2014, 11:28:59 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on December 12, 2014, 11:34:19 am
I think what might be a good idea is to remove their vulnerability to wind, and keep the vulnerability to thunder, based on the justification that wyverns have metallic and highly conductive scales, but are heavy enough that winds don't buffet them around as easily as they would a pegasus.
Post by: Haspen on December 12, 2014, 02:05:51 pm
I think what might be a good idea is to remove their vulnerability to wind, and keep the vulnerability to thunder, based on the justification that wyverns have metallic and highly conductive scales, but are heavy enough that winds don't buffet them around as easily as they would a pegasus.
/me gives the seal of catproval.
Post by: birdy51 on December 12, 2014, 03:10:36 pm
Cecil, I dunno if anyone else has pointed this out, but wyvern knights are vulnerable to about a third of all available weapons last time I did a count. This leads to every person who plays a wyvern class taking Nullify as a matter of necessity.
I think what might be a good idea is to remove their vulnerability to wind, and keep the vulnerability to thunder, based on the justification that wyverns have metallic and highly conductive scales, but are heavy enough that winds don't buffet them around as easily as they would a pegasus.
This would be wise methinks.
Post by: mastahcheese on December 13, 2014, 08:35:15 am
Spoiler: Scribe (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Sapper (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Archmage (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Templar (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Wrecker (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notes (click to show/hide)
Post by: CecilHoshino on December 13, 2014, 09:38:20 pm
Post by: Swordstar on December 13, 2014, 09:46:07 pm
Quote
"Effective" Damage
Touched on during Mounted Combat, certain weapons are effective against certain types of units. Bows as a whole are Effective against Flying Units, Fire Magic is Effective against Undead, Wind Magic is also Effective against Flying, and Thunder Magic is Effective against Monsters and Wyverns.
Besides that, it seems to have been removed, so it was probably just an oversight. Though honestly I'd suggest doing what the thread's said and swap out effective damage to thunder instead of wind. But *shrug*
Post by: CecilHoshino on December 13, 2014, 09:57:28 pm
Quote
"Effective" Damage[/quote]
Touched on during Mounted Combat, certain weapons are effective against certain types of units. Bows as a whole are Effective against Flying Units, Fire Magic is Effective against Undead, Wind Magic is Effective against Pegasi, and Thunder Magic is Effective against Monsters and Wyverns.
And that'll get changed in the book, proper. If there are other places where the distinction between Fliers, Pegasi, and Wyverns super matters, I'll make those changes as well.
Post by: Swordstar on December 13, 2014, 10:05:17 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on December 14, 2014, 11:12:21 am
Most games (mine included) have death supersede all other statuses, so if someone gets poisoned, slowed, and berserked, then clonked on the head, hitting them with a heal staff means they're fine and dandy.
Are the statuses meant to work this way? Are some an exception?
Post by: CecilHoshino on December 14, 2014, 01:08:28 pm
I can think of justifications for Poison, Scurvy, and Paralyze to be exceptions, but, for clarity and simplicity, let's go with "Death/Unconscious supersedes all status ailments."
There actually is one exception, though: direct stat reductions don't technically count as status ailments. So stuff like Slow, Forget, and Weakness will still persist. But they will count down as normal. So if a character was unconscious for two turns, but then was revived on the third right before they died, they also shaved two turns off the duration of Slow, potentially getting up clean from that.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on December 14, 2014, 01:30:08 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 14, 2014, 02:42:18 pm
Post by: Haspen on December 14, 2014, 02:46:35 pm
...with actual weather/terrain changes instead of dropping meteors from afar. fef1 joke, m8!
Post by: Swordstar on December 14, 2014, 02:46:46 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 14, 2014, 02:52:21 pm
Post by: Solymr on December 14, 2014, 02:54:43 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on December 14, 2014, 02:58:15 pm
Post by: Swordstar on December 14, 2014, 02:59:45 pm
Post by: mastahcheese on December 15, 2014, 12:02:46 pm
So you can actually use them now!
First Classes:
Spoiler: Sorcerer (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Skald (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Dervish (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Scribe (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Sapper (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Engineer (click to show/hide)
Promoted Classes:
Spoiler: Snake Charmer (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Oracle (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Huntsman (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Harper (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Dragon Dancer (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Harlequin (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Archmage (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Templar (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Wrecker (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Artificer (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Clockwork Crafter (click to show/hide)
(Special thanks to Solymr, for helping me get the stats to allow me to actually finish this. As your reward, you now have the golem class you've been wanting.)
So, now that they're done, I'd like to ask for input anyone might have.
Is there anything glaringly wrong that I overlooked?
To GMs: Would you allow these in your games? Any you wouldn't allow? Why?
To players: Any you would like to play as? Any you wouldn't? Why?
I'd really like to hear people's opinions on them, as it took a bit of work to produce these, and I'd genuinely like to see them get tested.
Post by: Culise on December 15, 2014, 12:03:00 pm
Honestly? Weather sucks and just slows the game down. >_> I'm fine with it existing, but it really shouldn't be in the control of the players I don't think and should be use sparingly by the GMs.I think part of it also comes down to adaptation of map design to particular circumstances. Certain unconstrained maps designed with high-mobility units in mind tend to suffer when the movement constraints of snow or rain are added in (f'rex, trudging through snow-covered maps for multiple turns of nothing happening). Being able to change weather on a whim makes it difficult to design maps to handle both clear and aberrant weather at the same time. I could see it as a high-rank staff which the GM can decide whether or not to give to the players, but I'm perfectly fine with it not being a thing at all.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 15, 2014, 12:16:08 pm
Quote from: handbook 1.3
Special: Ballistician
Passive Effect
Can operate Ballistas of a rank equal to their highest Bow Rank. Firing a ballista sends a massive
arrow flying over all terrain in the way, making no difference to its impressive range, but does not
negate Defence or Evasion bonuses. If the ballista is fired at an enemy that is within 3 spaces of 2 or
more units and misses, a member of the crowd, even an allied unit or the original target, is randomly
selected and takes the hit automatically
Post by: mastahcheese on December 15, 2014, 12:18:54 pm
EDIT: And the Sapper and Wrecker have been changed to be less useless.
Post by: Solymr on December 16, 2014, 05:03:33 pm
I wanted to make a game system similar to a tower/base defense and fef hybrid: a player or group of players that build a base around a defend target and defending it from enemies. Players can build walls, defensive terrain, and even constructs for other players to participiate in the fight using resources blahblahblah
Post by: mastahcheese on December 16, 2014, 05:13:51 pm
Post by: birdy51 on December 16, 2014, 08:22:34 pm
I was thinking of something a little different from regular FEF, but Ima post it here for you to see it.
I wanted to make a game system similar to a tower/base defense and fef hybrid: a player or group of players that build a base around a defend target and defending it from enemies. Players can build walls, defensive terrain, and even constructs for other players to participiate in the fight using resources blahblahblah
I actually had a concept similar, using the main idea of Dwarf Fortress as a base concept and increasing the death rate by tweaking how being downed works. Besieged by Goblins and Elves, only the dwarfiest can hope to survive.
Post by: Solymr on December 17, 2014, 11:27:48 am
The main character played by one player permanently (like SerCon getting to play a lord :v), several players taking turns or with voting like in suggestion games, has to defend a core by building walls, defensive terrain, etc by using a still nameless resource.
This character can also build robots/golems/whatever that are to be controlled by individual players. Each player starts as a regular robogolemwhatever, and by surviving battles they can be upgraded. The players can get their stats upgraded point by point, using up resource for each point (less cost for pref. stats) and can get promoted to veteran and eventually elite grade.
The main char can also participate in battle, building and repairing walls/healing players mid combat, but they can only upgrade other players between battles. They can also upgrade weapons and whatnot.
If the main character gets to 0 HP they can't get healed and are out til next battle. If the other players drop to 0 HP other players have a limited amount of turns to get them up before they asplode: 1 for regular grade, 2 for veteran and 3 for elite.
There's more little details like enemies dropping modules that serve as CS etcetcetc what do you think?
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on December 17, 2014, 11:30:50 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on December 17, 2014, 12:20:55 pm
"Getting." More like "taking the spot because no one else wanted it and Blade wanted to have one." :V
Which I appreciate. You've played the role excellently.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on December 17, 2014, 12:24:21 pm
Post by: Solymr on December 17, 2014, 12:28:46 pm
Post by: mastahcheese on December 17, 2014, 01:05:45 pm
Nothing against your idea, I'm just asking.
Post by: Solymr on December 17, 2014, 01:15:34 pm
For a certain value of normal :v
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 17, 2014, 01:55:58 pm
Post by: Solymr on December 19, 2014, 12:43:40 pm
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/fef1pdf/fef1-1.pdf
Suggestions about style and others are welcome, but remember this is all html code before turning it into a pdf.
Post by: Xanmyral on December 19, 2014, 01:29:33 pm
I guess I should mention I'm making the whole FEF1 IC thread into a pdf. Here are the first 50 posts:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/fef1pdf/fef1-1.pdf
Suggestions about style and others are welcome, but remember this is all html code before turning it into a pdf.
Actually, the style its in is pretty good as it is, very nice work. To make the table that has the names and health of all units not stretch onto forever on some maps though, I'd suggest just removing their names instead of striking them out though, for future reference.
Post by: Solymr on December 19, 2014, 02:22:02 pm
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/fef1pdf/fef1-2.pdf
Post by: mastahcheese on December 20, 2014, 01:31:06 pm
Spoiler: Savage (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Gryphon Rider (click to show/hide)
Post by: Solymr on December 22, 2014, 03:01:04 pm
I was thinking for plain stat upgrading: mooks don't get progression in their stats, instead each level allows them to get up to four stats upgraded using resource, with pref. stats of their class costing less than others.
Gunin was thinking of regular progression with levels, except less prog% and fixed for each class, with occassional stat upgrades for mo' cost.
Post by: mastahcheese on December 22, 2014, 03:04:05 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 22, 2014, 03:35:54 pm
I vote for gunin's idea.+1
Post by: Sirus on December 22, 2014, 10:48:56 pm
That makes more sense and doesn't require creating a whole new point buy system.I vote for gunin's idea.+1
Post by: PrivateNomad on December 22, 2014, 10:53:15 pm
I read the rulebook and I think I understand it
Post by: Sirus on December 22, 2014, 10:56:51 pm
Post by: PrivateNomad on December 22, 2014, 11:09:53 pm
...
or i can make my own game
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 22, 2014, 11:54:40 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on December 23, 2014, 12:19:13 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 23, 2014, 01:56:27 am
maybe PM them if you do start one?
Post by: Swordstar on December 23, 2014, 01:58:02 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on December 23, 2014, 02:02:29 am
If you don't know anything about Fire Emblem though, I dunno how much I would suggest starting your own game without asking for help, etc. It can be really complicated and takes a lot of time/commitment
Also this, +1. It takes a lot to know how to balance things properly and everything. Then there's also the map-making, updating that every turn, keeping track of all the calculations for hit chances and crit chances and what terrain is doing what and the character's personal skills/fault and everything...
Post by: Powder Miner on December 24, 2014, 04:04:03 pm
it's a terrifyingly sloooooow FEF, buuuuut still need players.
Post by: Sirus on December 24, 2014, 04:16:16 pm
Post by: Haspen on December 24, 2014, 04:17:12 pm
Sheb were looking for games. Sheb's joined my XCEF game, but that's not proper FEF.
Sheb were looking for games.
Sheb
What kinda heresy is this? Sheb in FEF? Since when he plays Fire Emblem? :P
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 24, 2014, 05:12:24 pm
New FEF: Noob Emblem On Forums: Witch-hunters of Arouca (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=147075.0)
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on January 01, 2015, 10:15:11 pm
We're three sessions in, and I've been asked to have the next session ready by Sunday.
So that's all pretty cool.
Post by: Solymr on January 08, 2015, 12:10:57 pm
Just gonna drop this off here... Hum de hum...Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Weep and despair.
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on January 12, 2015, 09:01:22 pm
Post by: UXLZ on January 13, 2015, 09:40:54 am
Roleplay Opportunities
Character Development
Game Mechanics (Not in-depth)
Time Investment (How long you need to put in to get anything out of it)
Speed of Advancement (How often GMs tend to advance things, such as turns.)[/b]
Do note that I'm fairly experienced with FE 7 and 8 so if you need to refer to mechanics from those games I ought to understand without further explanation.
(For example, weapon triads, though I don't know how they relate to these FEF games specifically.)
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 13, 2015, 09:51:32 am
Game Mechanics: Basically works like the games AFAIK. All the mechanics are explained early on in the handbook if you're unsure on anything.
Time Investment: ...Depends on your definition? It took over a year for FEF1 to finish. At the same time, though, you only really have to frontload the time investment by making a character and a mug/set of mugs for them. After that, you can put as little or as much time into playing them as you want. As long as you can show up at least once a day during battles to post an action, you're fine.
Speed of Advancement: Depends on the GM. Haspen, for example, keeps things moving fairly quickly.
If you're looking to get into a game, Praefectus Screptum's FEF (The Gates of Rundum, OOC here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136449.msg5016514#msg5016514)) just started back up and he might be accepting.
Post by: UXLZ on January 13, 2015, 09:57:01 am
Are there any interesting (interesting being subjective, admittedly) enough campaigns going/starting up that I would have the opportunity to join? They don't have to be beginner-friendly.
Well, as long as the plot/setting isn't like the one from FE8 (because my god that was dull) I should be fairly happy.
Ah, that brings me to another thing I'd like to ask. Is the world the campaigns are set in GM-designed or do they use templates from the handbooks?
(That is, are the kingdoms, countries and landmasses pre-defined or custom made?)
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 13, 2015, 10:00:07 am
As for the quickedit, every GM makes up their own world and lore. Only FEF2 uses the same world as another FEF (FEF1, of course) though it's been heavily changed by wars and such.
Post by: Haspen on January 13, 2015, 10:00:44 am
Ah, that brings me to another thing I'd like to ask. Is the world the campaigns are set in GM-designed or do they use templates from the handbooks?
(That is, are the kingdoms, countries and landmasses pre-defined or custom made?)
I make my own worlds, their lore, maps and all the stuff involved. FEF2 is sequel of FEF1 set 300-something years into future, though. FEF3 is in different world, and each NEF so far was set in its own universe as well. Themes vary from politics to fancy creatures going wild to pirate themes even v:
There are world templates in the handbook?
Post by: UXLZ on January 13, 2015, 10:18:59 am
Not that I know of, it was just part of the question.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on January 13, 2015, 10:23:23 am
Post by: Swordstar on January 13, 2015, 10:24:51 am
Post by: UXLZ on January 13, 2015, 10:26:36 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 13, 2015, 10:27:28 am
Also here's (http://pastebin.com/TUHBVKyC) a character sheet. It's from Gig's Noob Emblem.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 13, 2015, 10:30:10 am
Post by: Swordstar on January 13, 2015, 10:36:00 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on January 13, 2015, 10:52:41 am
Or alternatively, could serve as the meat and potatoes for a GM Guide.
Post by: UXLZ on January 13, 2015, 10:58:57 am
I mean, I may be misunderstanding how these work, but Fortune seems to grant total immunity to natural crits...
Post by: Swordstar on January 13, 2015, 11:01:25 am
Edit: Yes, Fortune is strong, but it also means that you don't get any other skill to help in combat, etc. It's one of the stronger free skills, but *shrug*
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on January 13, 2015, 11:02:33 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on January 13, 2015, 11:03:44 am
These skills seem like they need some balance work... Some are sooo much stronger than others. (At least, it appears that way to me.)
I mean, I may be misunderstanding how these work, but Fortune seems to grant total immunity to natural crits...
Fortune is a useful skill to be sure, but unless the GM arms every enemy with a killer weapon, PCs don't generally have to worry too much about critical hits.
It does work exactly how you think it does though.
Post by: Swordstar on January 13, 2015, 11:05:39 am
Post by: UXLZ on January 13, 2015, 11:08:33 am
Oh, Ross as well.
I'm kind of imagining how hilariously OP it would be as an NPC ability. My poor Swordmaster...
Can Male characters be Pegasus Knights?
Post by: darkpaladin109 on January 13, 2015, 11:11:22 am
Sorry, it probably isn't as overpowered as I'm imagining. I'm just imagining opponents with the same power as my 75 Crit Guy and 35 crit Emilia (can't remember how to spell her name properly. The soldier trainee from FE8) and just... *shudders*.There's no gender restriction for any classes.
Oh, Ross as well.
I'm kind of imagining how hilariously OP it would be as an NPC ability. My poor Swordmaster...
Can Male characters be Pegasus Knights?
Also, that's Amelia :P
Post by: Swordstar on January 13, 2015, 11:13:34 am
Post by: UXLZ on January 13, 2015, 11:22:30 am
Sorry, it probably isn't as overpowered as I'm imagining. I'm just imagining opponents with the same power as my 75 Crit Guy and 35 crit Emilia (can't remember how to spell her name properly. The soldier trainee from FE8) and just... *shudders*.There's no gender restriction for any classes.
Oh, Ross as well.
I'm kind of imagining how hilariously OP it would be as an NPC ability. My poor Swordmaster...
Can Male characters be Pegasus Knights?
Also, that's Amelia :P
Good, I'm considering making my character in a way that will allow them to be a Pegasus Knight because I absolutely loooved Fiora.
I knew the pronunciation, just not the spelling. xD
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on January 13, 2015, 11:23:32 am
Can Male characters be Pegasus Knights?
As with all things, GM has final say.
But we've had female Pirates and Fighters and Bandits, and I have a male pegasus knight NPC, so...
Post by: UXLZ on January 13, 2015, 11:44:52 am
The other attractive options at the moment are Wanderer, Wyvern Knight, Sentinel, Sniper, Dancing Blade, Assassin or Valkyrie.
Well, I guess 'Pegasus Knight' is more 'Falco Knight' because I'm looking at post-promotion classes.
Does anyone know if Final Hour or the Twin King's World, Selesht, would be open to another player? Nature of Humans seems fairly interesting but it's a bit... Err... 'Progressed' (That is, everyone is promoted.)
Those are just the ones that seemed like my kind of thing from a quick glance-over, and I'd be happy to hear any other recommendations.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on January 13, 2015, 11:51:26 am
I think Maisoh is open to another player. Not sure about Selesht. Can't speak to Final Hour.
Post by: UXLZ on January 13, 2015, 11:58:48 am
Post by: Haspen on January 13, 2015, 11:59:23 am
Post by: UXLZ on January 13, 2015, 12:07:28 pm
Giving it another look Maisoh doesn't look too uninteresting, but the last post in the IC thread was 8 days ago, sooo...
Post by: darkpaladin109 on January 13, 2015, 12:13:03 pm
Well, if I'm gonna be committing to a game that may take over a year to complete... Since I dislike abandoning things.I really, really doubt anyone's going to be able to complete an FEF in less than a year.
Post by: Swordstar on January 13, 2015, 12:15:42 pm
Post by: Solymr on January 13, 2015, 12:24:31 pm
Post by: UXLZ on January 13, 2015, 12:28:09 pm
Well, PM me or something if that spot ends up being open. For now I may as well develop my character... Personality and stuff, since I don't know what class I'll start out as.
Oh, and the portrait art, of course. I know what I want the character to look like, and I've got example artwork, but I'll need to see if I can do it in the FE style...
Post by: Haspen on January 13, 2015, 12:35:32 pm
Oh, and the portrait art, of course. I know what I want the character to look like, and I've got example artwork, but I'll need to see if I can do it in the FE style...
I would say 90% of mugs players use are frankenstein'd mugs of FE 6/7/8 characters :P
Post by: UXLZ on January 13, 2015, 12:40:12 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on January 13, 2015, 12:47:23 pm
Post by: UXLZ on January 13, 2015, 01:01:03 pm
Post by: Haspen on January 13, 2015, 01:05:23 pm
Unfortunately this hinges on me being able to find a drawing tablet by the time I actually need the mug shots. Doing stuff with a computer mouse is doable but an unholy pain in the ass.
/me cuddles his mouse and his MSPaint where he does all his pixel works. DONT YOU JUDGE OUR RELATIONSHIP SIR.
Post by: zomara0292 on January 13, 2015, 01:07:02 pm
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on January 13, 2015, 01:09:26 pm
And while this is the first FEF I am running, it is also being my testing grounds to some new stuff, make the map add difficulty, instead of just a bunch of well-armed enemies.
Post by: UXLZ on January 13, 2015, 01:33:32 pm
It certainly seems quite interesting, but hasn't the story already massively progressed? I mean, the IC thread has 150 pages.
Would I have to make a higher-level character or something? (Or is it like a reincarnation or something, and the previous 150 pages are there from a different campaign?)
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on January 13, 2015, 01:40:31 pm
And just because the story progressed, it doesn't mean others cannot join. They are going to cross many regions yet as they are following a specific map instead of just taking a ship right to the point. And no, not really. You would make a trainer sheet and I am basically going to roll the levels up from both trainee class and then the level ups from first class to keep up with them.
And we go by chapters here, so any other new PC that joins will have to wait until the chapter is over. Chapter being the map they are fighting on, that is. As for how the PC joins is up to the player, if they don't decide how, I probably will come up with something.
Post by: Tiruin on January 13, 2015, 01:45:42 pm
^This, UXLZ. People can use simple tools and make customized originals :3Unfortunately this hinges on me being able to find a drawing tablet by the time I actually need the mug shots. Doing stuff with a computer mouse is doable but an unholy pain in the ass.
/me cuddles his mouse and his MSPaint where he does all his pixel works. DONT YOU JUDGE OUR RELATIONSHIP SIR.
Just depends on how improvisional or creative you are.
Also, I'm planning up a FEF of my own someday soon. Mayhaps give it a lookie after I send the first drafts to better experienced GMs here (because I have a case of fear of judgement and failure, and am nervous and shy like that).
Post by: UXLZ on January 13, 2015, 01:47:45 pm
^This, UXLZ. People can use simple tools and make customized originals :3Unfortunately this hinges on me being able to find a drawing tablet by the time I actually need the mug shots. Doing stuff with a computer mouse is doable but an unholy pain in the ass.
/me cuddles his mouse and his MSPaint where he does all his pixel works. DONT YOU JUDGE OUR RELATIONSHIP SIR.
Just depends on how improvisional or creative you are.
Also, I'm planning up a FEF of my own someday soon. Mayhaps give it a lookie after I send the first drafts to better experienced GMs here (because I have a case of fear of judgement and failure, and am nervous and shy like that).
JUDGEMENT!
Also, please define 'someday soon'? >_>
If it's within two weeks, I'll definitely join. More than that... Eeeeeeehhhhh, we'll see.
Quote
Never heard of that.
And just because the story progressed, it doesn't mean others cannot join. They are going to cross many regions yet as they are following a specific map instead of just taking a ship right to the point. And no, not really. You would make a trainer sheet and I am basically going to roll the levels up from both trainee class and then the level ups from first class to keep up with them.
And we go by chapters here, so any other new PC that joins will have to wait until the chapter is over. Chapter being the map they are fighting on, that is. As for how the PC joins is up to the player, if they don't decide how, I probably will come up with something.
I see... Well, I'll think about it. How far through the current chapter are you anyway?
Post by: Tiruin on January 13, 2015, 01:49:15 pm
Also, please define 'someday soon'? >_>...Weekend. Ish ._.
Anytime before Sunday of next week to allow lapses of panic and argh.
But not to derail here--don't worry about your first FEF: it usually goes akin to a narrative style of progression, wherein the people form the future events instead of a linear railroad of tracks, despite the map-victory nature of the scenarios.
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on January 13, 2015, 02:14:02 pm
Post by: UXLZ on January 13, 2015, 02:57:54 pm
Also, please define 'someday soon'? >_>...Weekend. Ish ._.
Anytime before Sunday of next week to allow lapses of panic and argh.
But not to derail here--don't worry about your first FEF: it usually goes akin to a narrative style of progression, wherein the people form the future events instead of a linear railroad of tracks, despite the map-victory nature of the scenarios.
I'm not really too worried. The only thing I was cautious about was if it ended up just being exactly like the Fire Emblem games except slower... And you only control one character... And every turn takes 3 billion years... And leveling is slow. But, it seems my concerns were unfounded.
It... Isn't... Really... A... Derail. *cough* General Thread *cough* xD
Quote
Map is almost over, but the next one who is joining is Tiruin, so if you do make a sheet you might have to wait another Chapter, dunno. Depends of how I will make the next map.
I see. I may not have a character sheet done in time, regardless (or I may simply decide just to wait for Tiruin to start their game up, just to put as much pressure on as possible), so don't design anything around the assumption that I'm joining.
Post by: Haspen on January 13, 2015, 03:29:12 pm
Actually I advise supply of patience for anything FEF-related. These games wear down the time and strength of players and GM's alike.
Post by: Xanmyral on January 13, 2015, 04:11:50 pm
Also true on the wait list, I think I waited
Post by: UXLZ on January 13, 2015, 04:16:53 pm
I'll probably end up joining two or three to get around the glacial pacing of turns.
I wonder if it would be possible for anyone to code a rudimentary automated roll-generator/battle simulator (essentially reverse-engineering FE's combat system with the FEF skills added in) to take the burden off of the GMs (that is, make it so they don't have to remember massive amounts of minute details like Support levels and roll trillions of damn combat rolls.)
Post by: Solymr on January 13, 2015, 04:51:42 pm
Post by: Culise on January 13, 2015, 04:52:46 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on January 13, 2015, 06:01:28 pm
Not that I am any longer in a position to wave around 50 dollars...
Post by: UXLZ on January 13, 2015, 06:17:17 pm
Okay, looks like at the moment I have 3 characters to try and make up. 1 for Solymr's campaign, one for GoR, and one for Tiruin's... Whatever it is.
Post by: Xanmyral on January 13, 2015, 06:21:43 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on January 13, 2015, 06:22:02 pm
And generally, if a Personal Fault will never trigger, GM's tend to disallow it.
Post by: UXLZ on January 13, 2015, 06:25:33 pm
On a side note, the programming really shouldn't be that hard... Hell, I reckon you could actually do it in an Excel spreadsheet, come to think of it.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on January 13, 2015, 07:05:28 pm
Post by: Swordstar on January 13, 2015, 07:10:32 pm
Post by: Sirus on January 14, 2015, 03:03:29 am
If the games you're joining are actively accepting new players then the wait list shouldn't be too long.Actually, even when actively accepting then you still might end up waiting several months to join a game (depending on how quickly things move, of course). Only rarely do GMs start all characters simultaneously; instead, they get brought in one or two at a time over the course of several chapters.
I'll probably end up joining two or three to get around the glacial pacing of turns.
For instance, FEF3 started back on November 20th, and my character didn't join in until December 25th when the current chapter started.
Post by: Furtuka on January 14, 2015, 09:31:10 am
Post by: UXLZ on January 14, 2015, 07:39:30 pm
You know, I still don't like the 3D models for character when compared to the beautiful old 2D sprites (for battle animations).
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on January 14, 2015, 07:42:42 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 14, 2015, 09:11:44 pm
Post by: UXLZ on January 14, 2015, 09:30:18 pm
Glorious FE 6/7 artstyle master race (with an option on FE8 :p) reporting in.
FE 7 mostly. My GOD was 6's main lord's animation HIDEOUS. At least in his starting form.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on January 14, 2015, 10:05:29 pm
Post by: UXLZ on January 14, 2015, 10:22:35 pm
I mean, this is a crit so it isn't quiiite as bad, but holy CRAP his normal attack animation... It just SUCKS...
I guess it gets a bit better with the Sealed Sword, but honestly, Roy's animation looks like crappy fan animation. It's just so incomprehensibly bad compared to the others.
Also, he's too sort and his hair is stupid. On the sprite, that is.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 14, 2015, 10:28:49 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on January 14, 2015, 10:30:07 pm
Post by: UXLZ on January 14, 2015, 10:34:28 pm
I actually liked Eliwood's standard attack animation. It gave you a good idea for his fighting style and normal character type. The Knight Lord's one was terrible though. I actually hated being forced to promote Eliwood because it just sucked so much compared to his normal one. >_>
It wasn't too bad though, nothing is worse than Roy's. Even the NES games probably had better ones.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I think it's the cape that ruins it. The way it gets flung high up into the air for so long when he does that stupid little hop. As well as the way he holds his sword being so... Blaargh.
Post by: Sirus on January 14, 2015, 11:24:16 pm
I prefer the sprites to 3D as well, but at least Awakening's 3D was competent enough (lack of feet notwithstanding). Have you seen the models used in Shadow Dragon? Terrible. I couldn't force myself to play past the second map >_<
Post by: Tiruin on January 15, 2015, 07:10:13 am
I think it's the cape that ruins it. The way it gets flung high up into the air for so long when he does that stupid little hop. As well as the way he holds his sword being so... Blaargh.You...err, forgot the fact that his head is 'stuck' after his body pulls back from the sword lunge there. :P
In both crit and normal animations (that...it doesn't turn with the body. It's a bit too "stiff" or...well, not fluid)
Post by: UXLZ on January 16, 2015, 06:35:22 am
Post by: Parsely on January 16, 2015, 06:40:23 am
Post by: UXLZ on January 16, 2015, 06:42:33 am
Is Roy's animation really that bad..? There are better ones, but I don't see what makes it actually terrible.
What makes it so bad is the contrast. As far as I can tell, Roy's animation and Roy's animation alone is terrible, which makes it stick out quite badly.
It doesn't help that I came into 6 right after beating 7, with all its excellent animation.
Post by: darkpaladin109 on January 16, 2015, 08:46:25 am
I prefer the sprites to 3D as well, but at least Awakening's 3D was competent enough (lack of feet notwithstanding). Have you seen the models used in Shadow Dragon? Terrible. I couldn't force myself to play past the second map >_<I don't think the DS games have 3d though?
Post by: Solymr on January 16, 2015, 08:52:38 am
Dem blocky models :v
Post by: UXLZ on January 16, 2015, 09:00:05 am
I think he means something like the transition from FF6 to FF7.
Dem blocky models :v
6 and 7 were both sprite-based, and on the GBA. What am I missing? @_@
Oh, by the way, Solymr, if I'm going to be joining in with your campaign at some point, I'll start thinking up a character concept now.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 16, 2015, 09:07:34 am
Erm, would someone have a convenient link with a bunch of different mugshots that I could use as references? I remember Tiruin gave me one a while ago in some other random thread, but I can't remember exactly where. T_T
Here you go.
FE6 (http://www.spriters-resource.com/resources/sheets/36/38458.png)
FE7 (http://www.spriters-resource.com/resources/sheets/36/38459.png)
FE8 (http://www.spriters-resource.com/resources/sheets/14/14464.png)
Post by: Solymr on January 16, 2015, 09:10:51 am
Final Fantasy 6 and 7 yo :vI think he means something like the transition from FF6 to FF7.
Dem blocky models :v
6 and 7 were both sprite-based, and on the GBA. What am I missing? @_@
Oh, by the way, Solymr, if I'm going to be joining in with your campaign at some point, I'll start thinking up a character concept now.
Also my personal recommendation is that you post in the OOC for FH, and a magic oriented character for two reasons: lorewise it will be easier and the group is severely lacking in magic damage since the resident shaman went missing.
Post by: UXLZ on January 16, 2015, 10:59:07 am
@Solymr, Will do. I was wanting to make a magic-based character for at least one campaign anyway, I guess it will be in yours.
Also, my brain just sorta added some little lines underneath the F's, I thought you were taljking about FE6 and 7. >_>
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 16, 2015, 11:10:56 am
Post by: Solymr on January 16, 2015, 11:23:49 am
Quote from: FEF's IRC channel
Server: irc.darkmyst.org
Channel: #feftalk
Post by: UXLZ on January 16, 2015, 11:25:53 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 16, 2015, 11:27:55 am
/attach irc.darkmyst.org
/join #feftalk
Post by: darkpaladin109 on January 16, 2015, 11:28:46 am
Haspen sent me that in a PM, but I have no idea what I'm doing. I'd be happy to join the IRC, I just don't know... Well, how to join the IRC.Use what it says to do here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=118685.0):v
Post by: UXLZ on January 16, 2015, 12:30:57 pm
Also, I'm probably going to have to just frankenstein my characters together. I really, reaaaallly can't copy the FE art style effectively. :V
(I'm used to semi-realistic pencil art and anime-stylised stuff, I suuuck at Pixel Art, as it turns out.)
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 16, 2015, 12:56:22 pm
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on January 30, 2015, 10:54:44 pm
Some classes only have access to high-crit weapons choosing a specific subcategory, while the others or have very low critical rate or have nothing at all. So here are some still based on the hits and faults of the subcategories. (Hit, Mt, Wt)
Bloody Flail Bldg (C) 1 13 13 60 20 30
Killer Pilum Sper (C) 1-2 9 7 70 20 26
Ballistic Dagger Side (C) 1-2 7 8 75 10 25
Cleaver Crsh (C) 1 10 10 70 20 25
Frost Nova Wind (C) 1-2 10 6 80 20 20
Effective against Flying Units.
Some are still pending, but yeah.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on January 31, 2015, 12:35:43 am
Post by: Sirus on January 31, 2015, 12:39:53 am
Post by: UXLZ on January 31, 2015, 12:49:25 am
Post by: Solymr on January 31, 2015, 05:59:04 am
Also did you check 1.3 weapons? Pilums have only 2 range to nerf them for their double attack.
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on January 31, 2015, 07:20:04 am
Same here. Try to be careful and not make them too strong, though. :v
Nah, like mentioned previously, I am using their subcategory pros and faults as base, for example, Bloody Flail is still absurdly heavy and not too accurate just like the other bludgeon weapons, but still makes up with its might.
Can you note what's the WT, MT Hit and Crit columns? Especially WT and MT since they can easily get confused.Sure. Also I didn't, as I am not using the 1.3 weapons in GOR, and probably won't in GOR2 too. The order is this one, so WT comes first.
Also did you check 1.3 weapons? Pilums have only 2 range to nerf them for their double attack.
Name Type ( ) Rng Wt Mt Hit Cr Ql
Bloody Flail Bldg (C) 1 13 13 60 20 30
Killer Pilum Sper (C) 1-2 9 7 70 20 26
Ballistic Dagger Side (C) 1-2 7 8 75 10 25
Cleaver Crsh (C) 1 10 10 70 20 25
Frost Nova Wind (C) 1-2 10 6 80 20 20
Effective against Flying Units.
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on February 09, 2015, 01:08:43 am
First project: The weapons with extra crit rate for the subcategories that lack weapons with crit rate-or-decent crit rate.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That is what I got for now. Hopefully it will be approved, if not, I will make the changes needed.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on February 10, 2015, 05:53:40 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on February 10, 2015, 05:59:22 pm
Post by: Furtuka on February 10, 2015, 06:11:48 pm
I'm assuming ballistic in this case means it is meant for throwing.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_knife
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on February 10, 2015, 06:16:09 pm
I'm assuming ballistic in this case means it is meant for throwing.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_knife
Bolded for relevant emphasis.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on February 10, 2015, 08:28:04 pm
I'm assuming ballistic in this case means it is meant for throwing.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_knife
Bolded for relevant emphasis.
If you throw it, it's not a ballistic knife. It's a throwing knife.
Post by: Xanmyral on February 10, 2015, 08:31:35 pm
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on February 10, 2015, 09:55:42 pm
Edit: Also, make sure you guys give your approval or disapproval (In case of disapproval, explain why so I can fix the mistake).
Post by: Solymr on February 18, 2015, 10:33:33 am
Also I'm missing a few games from the gane list so pls post here links for them.
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on February 19, 2015, 12:47:46 am
Post by: hops on February 19, 2015, 01:34:31 am
EDIT: I'm having trouble wording this right now because I'm sort of in full despair mode, but if anyone who will be making a FEF game in the future and doesn't mind a newbie who have a bad timezone, can I be reserved in a future game?
Post by: GiglameshDespair on February 20, 2015, 07:24:09 am
I don't know why the heck people are making such a big deal about the name of a weapon. I just added it there because it is a good name, but it is a throwing knife. Just would be sharper and thinner, like a projectile, ballistic. But you are using the hand to toss it anyway.It's like calling one of the crossbows "bolt action rifle". There's similarities, but it's the wrong time zone. A ballistic knife is fired.
Edit: Also, make sure you guys give your approval or disapproval (In case of disapproval, explain why so I can fix the mistake).
PTWOff the top of my head, BMM42 is planning a non-first-come-first-served game. VRFEF.
EDIT: I'm having trouble wording this right now because I'm sort of in full despair mode, but if anyone who will be making a FEF game in the future and doesn't mind a newbie who have a bad timezone, can I be reserved in a future game?
Tiruin is planning a game.
Post by: Haspen on February 26, 2015, 10:52:44 am
FEF Secret #1: Hidden shop during first visit in Prixie's upper floors.
(http://i.imgur.com/FqBVGm6.png)
If anyone would get to that one tile in Chapter 5 of FEF1, they would be transported to a secret shop run by Anja's cousin. She would sell -reaver and Killer weapons for a discount.
FEF Secret #2: Surprise treasure map in the tomb.
This secret has been talked about for a while now; extra map filled with treasures after Chapter 8. Character backstory drama denied you it though.
FEF Secret #3: Choppy fun for Sheila aka 'Did No One Really Think Why I Sold a Boarding Axe So Early in FEF2'?
(http://i.imgur.com/0gOeDHf.png)
If anyone stopped by this suspicious tile, they would find an axe embedded in a tree stump. It was a 'named' (don't remember it, though) Boarding Axe with a RES bonus. Missing on it triggered the ability to purchase normal Boarding Axe before Chapter 2x (the one with gargoyles at a harbor); if it would be found, the blacksmith wouldn't have a normal Boarding Axe in his stock.
FEF Secret #4: King
(http://i.imgur.com/l2FI0Tj.png)
During Epilogue Chapter C of FEF1 - If Salvatore would stop on any of 'deep' water tiles of the lake (he stopped at it's edge, twice - you were so close guys!), a beautiful water maiden would hand him a magical spear from the depths and bless him with S rank in Spears.
I cannot tell the weapon's stats because his imperial descendant in FEF2 will wield it - so you gonna find out anyway.
FEF Secret #5: Ancient Wyvern Rider King's Grave.
(http://i.imgur.com/g58NKYq.png)
The very first one you have found :P
It required Beryn to stop by any of the 'deep mountain' tiles. I thought that the 'strange' mountain tile at 18.17 would put you off, but alas, I can only bemoan your lack of instinct or secret finding skills :P 18.15 was the closest of the bunch and thus Beryn found it by chance. Gratz anyways!
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on February 26, 2015, 11:05:53 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on February 26, 2015, 11:12:31 am
I cannot tell the weapon's stats because his imperial descendant in FEF2 will wield it - so you gonna find out anyway.
Crap :v
Post by: Sirus on February 26, 2015, 12:14:11 pm
Post by: Culise on February 26, 2015, 12:22:19 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on March 06, 2015, 06:14:47 pm
FEF: Generals: (http://pastebin.com/dU5cCd7A) to try to give a feel of larger scale warfare than you get in an ordinary fire emblem game. Wars typically have more than a dozen blokes on each side... players can choose between helping one side, both sides, or establishing their own kingdom. A long fef campaign, with a lot of player freedom.
FEF: Pirates in Hell: (http://pastebin.com/Q4Qr3yXM) a 3-map fef, of which the objective is to complete the maps with as much gold as possible, balancing it against purchasing better equipment through a merchant between maps. Possibly a puppet show put on by Lucrezia for the fef3 cast. Not exactly serious. May require everyone to be puppets.
Post by: hops on March 07, 2015, 04:44:59 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 23, 2015, 08:46:37 pm
It's pretty simple to use. Select the classes you wish to place and determine what level they will be. Lower level PCs can be threatened by mooks one to two levels higher, but generally you want enemies to be about 3 levels higher to be capable of posing a significant threat.
To determine stat gains, use the table at the bottom.
Also, since Xanmyral mentioned the idea in the IRC, if Cecil would like any input from myself on writing a GM Guidebook for the Further Journeys System from me, I'd be happy to help.
Post by: Sirus on March 24, 2015, 02:33:01 am
An enemy stat generation table with accompanying base stats and sample progression rates for a variety of first classes. (https://www.dropbox.com/s/kvs7czp4d7xg6v2/Basic%20enemy%20generation%20progression%20spread.txt?dl=0)Oh, that should come in handy someday.
It's pretty simple to use. Select the classes you wish to place and determine what level they will be. Lower level PCs can be threatened by mooks one to two levels higher, but generally you want enemies to be about 3 levels higher to be capable of posing a significant threat.
To determine stat gains, use the table at the bottom.
Post by: UXLZ on March 24, 2015, 02:37:18 am
Post by: Haspen on March 24, 2015, 04:57:57 am
I never use such things, I just scale and prepare enemies up whatever players have (that's why lately there have been a bunch of dangerous speedsters).
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 24, 2015, 07:04:41 am
Erm, does that use Excel?
I suppose it could be set up to, but right now it's a notepad.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on March 24, 2015, 02:10:21 pm
You input the sheets in the form of text files, it reads 'em, it modifies them, and you can copy and paste or whatever.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 24, 2015, 02:32:12 pm
Would you guys be interested in an application that did the level ups for you? I've pretty much made one for myself, but it'd be trivial to modify it for your use as well.
You input the sheets in the form of text files, it reads 'em, it modifies them, and you can copy and paste or whatever.
That sounds baller. Even if I would be forgoing physical dice.
Post by: Swordstar on March 24, 2015, 02:33:40 pm
bet he still curses our levels somehow
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 24, 2015, 02:37:34 pm
Post by: Swordstar on March 24, 2015, 02:38:12 pm
Post by: UXLZ on March 24, 2015, 05:19:49 pm
Post by: Solymr on March 25, 2015, 07:20:34 am
Performers can't perform two turn in a row.
Thoughts?
Post by: GiglameshDespair on March 25, 2015, 07:37:46 am
So I got an idea about performers that increases the value of instruments and other actions other than performing while reducing somewhat the power of performing:
Performers can't perform two turn in a row.
Thoughts?
Performer trainees would become solid poop until promotion.
Reducing the number of people they can affect would do the trick, though yeah, this idea does seem to give a use to not-performing, which doesn't seem to happen too much.
Either/or.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on March 25, 2015, 07:42:19 am
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on March 25, 2015, 07:46:20 am
Post by: Solymr on March 25, 2015, 07:53:19 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on March 25, 2015, 08:04:04 am
Post by: freeformschooler on March 25, 2015, 08:19:06 am
It's definitely a better solution than arbitrarily keeping them from performing every other turn.
Post by: Solymr on March 25, 2015, 08:33:20 am
Post by: freeformschooler on March 25, 2015, 08:41:54 am
And what about bards? 2 actions is still better than 1.
2 actions is better than 1 in specific situations, especially since they have to be right next to the bard. I would say 4 adjacent actions is better than 1 in literally every situation.
I proposed a bunch of bard nerfs a while back during FEF2XP's development but they were all knocked down in favor of limiting the number of performances. So good luck trying to come up with a worthwhile nerf that isn't an arbitrary restriction like the sort you were proposing.
It may end up that dancers become a mix of offense/defense and performances while bards become pure performers.
Post by: Tiruin on March 25, 2015, 09:19:56 am
And what about bards? 2 actions is still better than 1.Can I add that to my draft?
I somewhat edited it so archers would have Sidearms (literally) instead of the tiny-bows, and that bards/support classes have minor weapons instead (ie Performers = The 'Archer' Sidearms [as in any weapon like a minor aspect of a troubadour's weapon ability]).
Haspen and I had this same conversation on IRC and it's why he decided to simply nerf performance amounts. Yes, limiting dancers to 1 performed person per turn may make them less popular. But all they'd be doing is choosing between taking action themselves and giving their action to someone else. This seems reasonable, especially late-game where performers get cool powers.Yes to this.
It's definitely a better solution than arbitrarily keeping them from performing every other turn.
Post by: Solymr on March 25, 2015, 09:20:57 am
So my idea is: instead of performing being a free skill, revamp the whole performance items so that the cheapest ones give the refresh effect and higher level ones improve on the range or number of persons affected or giving an additional buff... I think it would give more freedom to performers to do different things other than perform all the time and we can fine tune its power better than just cutting their power in half.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on March 25, 2015, 09:30:13 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 25, 2015, 09:31:23 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 25, 2015, 09:31:45 am
Post by: freeformschooler on March 25, 2015, 09:41:24 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on March 25, 2015, 11:19:14 am
I'm going to work a bit on the PC leveller, which will have a little different structure for the sheets. So the next version of Mook Maker might be a little different.
To add:
Time consuming:
Weapons and generating the stats the enemies have with them
The non-rng enemy progression
Trivial:
Saving generated enemies
Loading user made text files
Disclaimer
I'm not responsible if it kills your computer, though how it could is beyond me.
It contained no malware at the moment of upload and shouldn't get any from the hosting site, so if you AV flags it it's a false alarm.
Post by: abyssgullet on March 27, 2015, 08:19:39 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 01, 2015, 11:26:56 pm
Before, I had the idea of two different Blossom Variants that are a bit more suited to the game than rerolling whenever a stat is missed at level up and less cumbersome than leveling up slower in exchange.
Variant 1 (or Aptitude): Free: After stat allocation is completed normally, 5% is added to the progression rate of all stats. A stat may exceed the normal progression limit in this manner.
Variant 2 ('True' Blossom): Free: The character with this skill has 3 preferred stats, instead of one. When leveling up, the character gains from preferred stats if they roll under 3 stats gained, rather than 2.
And this got me thinking- Well, does the player select a third preferred stat? Seems like it could wind up rather arbitrary, and, even if we want that, kind of a hassle.
So the following idea: Give each class three preferred stats, rather than just two. At character creation/class up, characters would select two to be their preferred stats, and would go as normal, but characters with 'True' Blossom would get all three. As for how selection would go otherwise, I had two major ideas.
1: Pick em all. Characters pick any two preferred stats from the selection.
2. Pick One. The first listed Preferred Stat would always be selected. This makes the preferred stat of a given class a little more concrete, and gives the player a little less to agonize over while still giving them some freedom with the preferred stat system.
Thoughts?
Post by: Solymr on April 02, 2015, 06:08:52 am
Me likes it (Ü)-b
Also in my game I call the +5% to all Maturity in reference to Afa's drops that "increased maturity" :v
Post by: UXLZ on April 02, 2015, 10:56:42 am
(Like, give them to a maxed level Nils/Ninian/Nino/Rebecca (sorta) and they become adults. :v)
Post by: mastahcheese on April 02, 2015, 12:15:53 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 11, 2015, 08:59:23 pm
Until just a few minutes ago.
What if instead of being a subcategory of swords, sidearms were their own tree? A small tree, granted (really more of a bush), but their own tree all the same. Like bows, the sidearm category would be outside the weapon triangle. They would also be cheap, and probably somewhat weaker as a category than they are now to compensate for the following:
Any class would be able to use sidearms, depending on their proficiency with other weapons. They wouldn't be strong, but they would provide possible alternatives to being forced to attack or defend with WTD, or, in the case of boxed in archers, the capability to attack at all. The possibility of having cheap throwing knives available to characters that don't feel like investing in range subcategories is attractive as well.
Just an idea I wanted to throw out.
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on April 11, 2015, 09:54:45 pm
Golden Golem:
(http://i.imgur.com/DZG6csS.png)
Blood Hunter:
(http://i.imgur.com/bxZbJ1I.png)
Abomination:
(http://i.imgur.com/B14N5MO.png)
Have fun! More different sprites will be made in the future.
Post by: Glacies on April 16, 2015, 02:15:41 pm
Post by: Swordstar on April 16, 2015, 02:17:46 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on April 16, 2015, 02:18:44 pm
Ninja'd by swordstar.
Post by: Haspen on April 16, 2015, 03:02:26 pm
And then you have the crazy ones like freeformschooler and F.O.E who make half of them from scratch or something. Or they're just that good at frankensteining I dunno v;
Post by: Swordstar on April 16, 2015, 03:04:22 pm
Post by: F.O.E. on April 16, 2015, 03:42:42 pm
Though I trace occasionally.
Post by: UXLZ on April 16, 2015, 05:14:05 pm
Post by: hops on April 16, 2015, 08:22:36 pm
Post by: Khaiel on April 24, 2015, 07:43:51 am
First of all, I'm really sorry for leaving without saying anything. Last few months have been a bit of a headache for me. I had an accident during my driving test, got sued, had to get a half time job to pay, my gf and me broke, I met another girl but things got difficult... The less said, the better, I'm trying to forget all of that.
Anyway, that isn't an excuse for leaving without saying anything, and I should had tried to at least post to say that I would be leaving for a while.
To be honest, I only remembered to come and post this because of a guy Solymr contacted on a different forum thinking he was me (he had Khaiel as his nickname on that forum and he is also from Seville, so it's easy to see why he thought so). The guy was worried that he would gain some kind of bad fame because he shared nickname with me, and managed to find me at my job in a comic book store (I was quite scared that someone could find me with so little info, but apparently Seville isn't that big).
So... That's basicly it. I'm really sorry, and a bit embarrased about having forgotten about this. I'm starting to have some free time again, but I don't know if I'm welcomed around here anymore (I would be at least a bit angry at someone who left without saying anything), so before doing anything, I wanted to apologize.
Post by: UXLZ on April 24, 2015, 07:49:11 am
God DAMNIT, I was sad that she left T_T She seemed pretty interesting (appealing to me since she reminds me of certain manga characters.) and I wish I had have gotten the opportunity to be in the game at that point.
(I'm not sure about the others, but I'm definitely understing of bad life events getting in the way of things.)
Post by: GiglameshDespair on April 24, 2015, 07:53:40 am
But good to see you back.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 24, 2015, 08:51:29 am
Post by: Swordstar on April 24, 2015, 11:05:02 am
Real life always comes first dude. I'm sorry that you've had to deal with such a sucky time, and I hope things get better.
Post by: Haspen on April 24, 2015, 11:05:52 am
/me obviously late but what gives :P
Post by: Sirus on April 24, 2015, 12:02:53 pm
Post by: mastahcheese on April 25, 2015, 04:49:05 pm
Welcome back, Khaiel.
Post by: Culise on April 27, 2015, 01:43:05 pm
Post by: freeformschooler on April 29, 2015, 08:26:47 am
Post by: Twinwolf on May 02, 2015, 09:14:24 am
Post by: Haspen on May 19, 2015, 06:32:45 am
At least thanks to GiglaDes the current fefs have been saved, heh.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 19, 2015, 06:59:05 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on May 19, 2015, 08:03:54 am
Post by: Sirus on May 19, 2015, 11:06:19 am
Post by: Haspen on May 19, 2015, 01:15:26 pm
Like I said, FEF2, FEF3, FEF4 and all other games I currently run are on indefinite hiatus. Please move for me in PtL, NoH and FH.
GiglaDes and swordstar plz dun include my characters in your games :v
My bro agreed to let me on his compy for work stuff but that's all. During my downtime, GUNINANRUNIN and Xanmy are in charge of #feftalk.
/me siiiiighs :I
Post by: Haspen on May 19, 2015, 01:30:13 pm
Post by: mastahcheese on May 19, 2015, 05:10:50 pm
Post by: Haspen on May 21, 2015, 02:11:18 pm
He will be back on Sunday with new paste and new radiator so if overheating is the only issue, I might be back into full action by Sunday. I will be back to murdur, yaaay \o/
Post by: Sirus on May 21, 2015, 03:39:57 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on May 21, 2015, 04:05:14 pm
Post by: Swordstar on May 21, 2015, 04:08:00 pm
Post by: Haspen on May 22, 2015, 02:32:11 am
Post by: Haspen on May 24, 2015, 07:14:28 am
YES
YESSSSSSSSSSSSS
:D
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on May 24, 2015, 11:30:25 am
Post by: Solymr on May 27, 2015, 11:02:32 am
When Cecil disappears, he disappears for a WHILE.
No kidding. Where art thou great Creator?
Post by: CecilHoshino on June 17, 2015, 12:46:47 am
Yeah...the past couple of months have been a self-inflicted nightmare. When I initially disappeared, what I thought I might do for Christmas was present you guys with a first draft of the GM's Guidebook, so long as I could get it ready by then...
And then the first day of the vacation, I damn near break my arm in an icy parking lot. So that pretty much put the kibosh on everything. And then I return to the university to the second semester of the core 3rd year of the program, and...the less said about that, the better. Again, entirely self-inflicted, no one to blame but myself, but the point stands, I was swamped, and what little time I had was very poorly managed. And with each passing day, without checking in on the forum, or updating the GM guide, I felt more and more awkward about coming back.
But, finally, things changed this summer. I've...come into a lot of free time, and I want to make the most of it before I go on exchange to South Korea in the fall. So, in addition to a bunch of other projects, I want to take every Tuesday of the summer to work exclusive on the guidebooks and the RPG as a whole. Progress on my various projects will be tracked here:
https://siraranisamused.dreamwidth.org
And I will be making a lot more visits to this forum, and maybe lurk a bit in the games, to see how things are working (or, in the case of the mechanics, not working). I'm really glad to see the community is still going, and new people are still coming in and checking out a work like mine. Again, I apologize for leaving so suddenly and then coming back so empty-handed, and hope you all will continue to want to work with me on this. (It already looks like you found a solution to the whole "statting enemies" thing while I was out, for example, although I've still got some things I need to get the GM's Guide up for)
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 17, 2015, 12:57:47 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on June 17, 2015, 01:27:04 am
Post by: Sirus on June 17, 2015, 02:53:58 am
Post by: Solymr on June 17, 2015, 07:08:23 am
Post by: Haspen on June 17, 2015, 08:43:34 am
-snip-
There's a saying 'better late than never', so you're always welcome around :P
Post by: CecilHoshino on June 17, 2015, 02:26:34 pm
Howdy Cecil. Sorry to hear about your arm. NoH is almost over- Anything you'd like to ask me about running my first FEF? I don't know if it'd be helpful to you or not.Ah, don't worry about it; like I said, damn near broke my arm, didn't actually, just sprained bad enough to put me out of commission for a few days. Six months later, full recovery (heck, one month later, full recovery).
So, tell me, in your experience, what were some of the hardest elements of running a campaign? Map generation? Map updates? Enemy creation? Misfired difficulty curve?
So, other thing I wanted to ask about/throw out there: Performance/Dance/Play has come up in talks again, and I wanted to pitch a sort of combination of nerfs and adjustments, some of them already pitched out but I'd just like to gauge the reaction to the change before going forward with them. Now, as I mentioned in the past, some of the elements of this guidebook (such as the whole existence of the Battle Mage, the magic flinging promotion for the Archer) was based off the Might&Magic series. So, what they've done in the Heroes games ever since the death of NWC and the rebirth through Ubisoft is a change to the Morale system. Whereas, before, Good Morale granted a unit a whole other turn straight up, in Heroes 5 and onwards, Good Morale gave them an additional Half turn; they could only move half as far, and they could only strike half as hard.
So what if, for an initial nerf to the Performers, the effect looked like this:
The character is able to play a song for any ally adjacent to the user who has already used their action. That character gains a bonus turn. During this bonus turn, their MOV is reduced by half (rounded up). If they make an attack during the bonus turn, their final damage after calculation is reduced by half (rounded up). If they use a staff during the bonus turn, the heal, range, and hit rate are all reduced by half (rounded up)
Alternately, it could just stop at "That character gains a bonus turn" and then Bonus Turn gets its own section in the Combat section.
To adjust for the range provided, perhaps Bard and Dancer could instead have their range look like this:
Trainee to First Class Level 10: 1 adjacent target
Level 11 to Promoted Level 10: 1 target at range 1-2, OR 2 targets on opposite sides of the performer (think Leanne from FE10) (the player can pick one)
Level 11 Promoted to Level 20 Promoted: 2 targets at range 1-2, OR all adjacent targets (based on what the player chose previously)
The changes to the Equippable performances will be a bit more...involved. Gonna have to give them a further look. But, as for the changes to the "bonus turn" Bards and Dancers can give, do these changes look to be a step in the right direction? (And given just how powerful an extra turn can be, do they even NEED their additional skill, "With A Little Bit" and "Boundless Stamina?")
Post by: Solymr on June 17, 2015, 02:30:49 pm
Also to answer your last question, no they don't :v
Post by: Haspen on June 17, 2015, 02:32:14 pm
BMM42 and others will probably offer some tweaking on that, though. They're more open-minded to rule changes.
Post by: freeformschooler on June 17, 2015, 03:15:54 pm
Post by: Solymr on June 17, 2015, 03:19:08 pm
Post by: UXLZ on June 17, 2015, 03:38:38 pm
I'm gonna stay with my own nerf because I'm a rebel v:
BMM42 and others will probably offer some tweaking on that, though. They're more open-minded to rule changes.
You aren't a rebel, you're a luddite. :v
Post by: Haspen on June 17, 2015, 03:50:18 pm
You aren't a rebel, you're a luddite. :v
I might be a luddite, but I'm the one hosting most FEF games for your and others pleasure :3
Post by: Solymr on June 17, 2015, 03:53:29 pm
Post by: Haspen on June 17, 2015, 04:11:34 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 17, 2015, 04:48:34 pm
Post by: Solymr on June 17, 2015, 04:55:52 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 17, 2015, 05:01:24 pm
I think this has been said already but what about a cooldown? Long War recently inttoduced a refresh-like ability on officers that gives an extra move and works on cooldown/charge system.
But what do they do while that recharges? They have no other abilities.
Post by: Haspen on June 17, 2015, 05:02:39 pm
Post by: birdy51 on June 17, 2015, 06:30:19 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on June 17, 2015, 08:02:47 pm
Use items, use performance items, stand bravely in front of enemy arrows?I think this has been said already but what about a cooldown? Long War recently inttoduced a refresh-like ability on officers that gives an extra move and works on cooldown/charge system.
But what do they do while that recharges? They have no other abilities.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 17, 2015, 09:25:35 pm
Use items, use performance items, stand bravely in front of enemy arrows?I think this has been said already but what about a cooldown? Long War recently inttoduced a refresh-like ability on officers that gives an extra move and works on cooldown/charge system.
But what do they do while that recharges? They have no other abilities.
Having performance items be more common and available would probably offset the crappiness of a cool down on the standard dance. I noticed that the performance buffs have no listed duration. What should it be?
Also, Cecil, when should various status counters be ticking down? At the end of the turn, as we've been doing, or the beginning of the turn? The way we've been doing it works well except when 1 turn buffs are applied- Quickness in particular is very nearly useless, as evasion is most useful during the enemy phase, and applying it on your turn means it stops working when your turn ends.
Post by: CecilHoshino on June 17, 2015, 09:46:14 pm
Player A uses Quickness on Player B (Turn 1). At the start of Player B's next turn (Turn 2), Quickness wears off.
And in case of ailments, then
Enemy A casts Poison on Player A (Turn 1). At the start of Player A's next turn (Turn 2), they take a tick of poison damage, and then the status ailment ticks down by one.
Although, now that I've said that, I need to go back and make some changes to other items and abilities, as, now, the entire Ancient Magic line (except Poison) is useless...until such time as the proper fix and weapons adjustments, as a band-aid errata, all Ancient Magic now applies their Debuffs for 2 turns (so the target is at least affected by it once)
Also, just so everyone has an idea of what to expect with the Enemy Unit Guide, the units will look something like this...
[Enemy Class]
[Human/Monster/Demon/Dragon]
[Total Level]
[Current Level]
[Base Stats]
[Stat Preferences, ranging from "Very Low" to "Very High," plus a numerical range]
STR: High (13-17)
DEF: Low (5-9)
[Average Stats at Level's 5/10/20 or 10/15/20]
[Weapon Proficiency]
[Available Weapons]
[Available Skills]
[Unique Skills]
[Boss Unique Skills]
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 17, 2015, 09:54:49 pm
Post by: CecilHoshino on June 19, 2015, 06:42:42 pm
I really love the identity that the Sword subcategories have, and Anima has a good niche, as well. I'm kinda in favour of Sidearms being set outside the Weapon Triangle, although would it be entirely fair to have the provision that Priests/Sisters, Bards, and Dancers don't get to play with too many knives (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asULvdxX07s)? And what would this do to the Thief tree of classes? I kinda made Sidearms entirely for them, but how've you all been playing the Thief class? Support based or combat based? Is it actually not that weird to see Ezio running around Assassinating people with a Silver Blade?
Anyway, the point is, taking out Sidearms, Swords, Bows, and Anima all have a clear divide in their weapon subcategories (although some could use more highlighting). I'd like to achieve something like that for the other weapons (Staffs have the clearest divide between Heal, Buff, and Ailment, although to my understanding Heal is still the dominant choice), but that's where things get...muddier.
For Lances and Axes, are you guys happy if the division is "Typical Weapon/Heavier, Less Accurate, More Powerful Weapon/Thrown Weapon" (Pierce/Polearm/Spear and Hack/Bludgeon/Thrown), or would you rather Polearm and Bludgeon take on more of the "Anti-Cavalry and Anti-Armour, respectively" identity? Or something else?
And as for Light and Dark Magic, that gets even muddier. The idea behind Judgement, Barrier, Ancient and Druidic magic was always more gimmick based, with the intended identity being
Judgement: Anti-Specific Units, but not so effective vs others
Druidic: Anti-Specific Weapons, but not so effective vs others
Barrier: Mage Tank
Ancient: Status Ailments
Is there a better way to achieve these identities? Are they fun identities to start with? What would you rather do as a Shaman or a Monk, rather than just "Heavy magic damage" vs "Crit happy magic damage?"
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 19, 2015, 08:33:25 pm
Having entire categories centered purely around effectivity against one sort of target strikes me as a bad choice. It would give the categories some much needed identity, so maybe put several in, but not all. Others should just be heavier/stronger, in my opinion.
Of the other magic choices, I don't feel like the Barrier category works very well, and I'm not a fan. That said, I don't really have a replacement to contribute, so that's the end of that description. I really like Ancient magic, and feel that a category focusing on ailments and debuffs is a very cool one that's easy to fluff and justify. Druidic is a bit less so.
Post by: Solymr on June 20, 2015, 05:46:04 am
The matter of "heavier less accurate and more powerful" category is weird since some of the Bludgeon weapons are lighter/more accurate/less powerful than the Hacking equivalent. It's really strange. Same as with the swords, Piercing weapons are actually OP when compared to other weapons of the same rank.
About the Judgement tree, 1.2 had the problem of not covering all the classes, while 1.3 has the problem of being imbalanced since it's based on skills. Instead of making it deal 3x damage when targeting their classes, in my game I made it so they all have the same MT based on the user's level. I did the same with Druidic tree, but maybe instead of making it trump one weapon and making it lose against all others, maybe make it so it works like a part of the weapon triangle (example: black sword would get WTA against swords but WTD against axes).
The Ancient tree is cool, just maybe reword the ailment duration so it lasts one full turn (one PP, one EP, one AP in any order).
As for Barrier category, it's the one that needs a rework the most. Maybe give the unit using them a temporary HP shield based on damage dealt?
One last thing, rename Black Physique to Dark Matter ples
Post by: Haspen on July 12, 2015, 03:38:10 pm
Yo, I think our TVTropes page would use some loving. Stuff there haven't been updooted in months :v
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on July 12, 2015, 04:33:11 pm
Post by: Twinwolf on July 12, 2015, 04:36:38 pm
Also, out of curiosity, does anyone intend on starting a new FEF soon / Have an open spot in theirs?
Post by: Sirus on July 12, 2015, 04:41:52 pm
Post by: UXLZ on July 12, 2015, 07:49:19 pm
Post by: Twinwolf on July 12, 2015, 07:57:31 pm
Post by: Sirus on July 12, 2015, 08:12:27 pm
If nothing happens soon I may just say "screw it" and start up my own FEF. In maybe a week or so.Got any particular ideas in mind?
Post by: F.O.E. on July 12, 2015, 10:42:05 pm
If nothing happens soon I may just say "screw it" and start up my own FEF. In maybe a week or so.
Funny, I was considering doing the same since TF might as well be dead.
Post by: UXLZ on July 13, 2015, 02:09:22 am
If nothing happens soon I may just say "screw it" and start up my own FEF. In maybe a week or so.Got any particular ideas in mind?
Not really. Most of my ideas are better suited for less linear systems like DnD than FEF. Still, I've got a few things i think would be fairly interesting to try, though I'd do a mini Test FEF just to see how I handle GMing. (Very mini, as in 1 chapter Mini.)
Post by: Solymr on July 24, 2015, 04:18:50 pm
Crossbow AS being half STR + half SPD.
What do people think?
Post by: Haspen on July 24, 2015, 04:27:08 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on July 24, 2015, 04:39:44 pm
Post by: Solymr on July 24, 2015, 04:59:05 pm
Post by: xelada on July 24, 2015, 08:59:04 pm
Post by: Sirus on July 25, 2015, 01:03:04 am
Post by: Solymr on July 25, 2015, 04:04:49 am
And yes this is targeted against the 0% STR xbow spec a lot of people including Sirus build v:
In any case I want to ask Cecil if he's still around if what he intended for xbows is for them to be used only in a no STR build while boosting other stats to infinity and beyond.
Post by: UXLZ on July 25, 2015, 04:09:12 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 25, 2015, 08:56:56 am
Post by: UXLZ on July 25, 2015, 09:00:30 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 25, 2015, 09:07:27 am
Post by: Swordstar on July 25, 2015, 09:54:30 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 25, 2015, 09:57:10 am
Spoiler alert: by the base rules you're not actually allowed to make a 0% str build. The wording there is unclear, but Cecil did specify. You're allowed to leave one of mag or str at 0%, not both. You are required to put at least 10% growth into the stat used by your base weapon, which is why you'll note that Grif has 10% STR growth. It's still min maxing, but it's not quite as bad as you're all making it out to be.
Actually, Grifen has mag growth, doesn't she? So she totally could have had 0 str prog.
Post by: Swordstar on July 25, 2015, 10:00:03 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 25, 2015, 10:05:30 am
Post by: fillipk on July 25, 2015, 10:07:22 am
Post by: Swordstar on July 25, 2015, 10:07:53 am
/me shrugs
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on July 25, 2015, 10:16:37 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 25, 2015, 10:21:48 am
That build does heavily rely on the GM giving you better weapons. If you just get iron crossbows all game you're not going to be doing much damage.
Yeah, but I think most GMs would graduate you from iron eventually.
>_>
Post by: Swordstar on July 25, 2015, 10:25:22 am
Post by: UXLZ on July 25, 2015, 10:25:43 am
Quote from: Handbook
with the exception of Strength and
Magic. Depending on your class's style of combat, you can choose to put 0 in Strength or Magic
(a Bandit with a Magic growth is not unheard of, but acceptably rare)
I'd have the better-than-iron weapon be a drop from the final boss, hue.
Though, really, it does sort of rely a hell of a lot on GM fiat.
Post by: Swordstar on July 25, 2015, 10:26:54 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on July 25, 2015, 10:28:42 am
Yeah, but I think most GMs would graduate you from iron eventually.
>_>
My point still stands that if a GM were to not like the build (or was just forgetful, or if the players never budgeted money for a better crossbow) that that's one way of nerfing it without changing mechanics around.
quoted because tripleninja
Post by: GiglameshDespair on July 25, 2015, 10:33:55 am
Post by: UXLZ on July 25, 2015, 11:19:42 am
Post by: UXLZ on August 01, 2015, 07:39:34 am
Post by: Haspen on August 01, 2015, 08:45:30 am
Tileset oh tileset, where oh art thou tileset?
Which one? :v
Post by: UXLZ on August 01, 2015, 08:47:35 am
Post by: zomara0292 on August 03, 2015, 06:51:05 pm
Post by: UXLZ on August 03, 2015, 08:11:10 pm
SOLY, ADD MAH FEF TO THE TITLE PAGE. >:C
Post by: Xanmyral on August 03, 2015, 08:52:14 pm
The one that VRFEF's gonna use, and the one that FOE's usin'.
I think BMM is gonna use Hatspin's tiles, judging from past. You can find it in the main post. Unless he's swapping to a different tileset, in which case can't help yah. I don't know what tilesets are in popular use, I assume still Haspin's.
Post by: UXLZ on August 03, 2015, 08:54:04 pm
I put the map I made up for perusal in my OOC thread, even.
God, I wish Glow was around. She made some really awesome maps. And those custom character sprites were great, too. I need to try and do that...
Post by: F.O.E. on August 03, 2015, 08:54:34 pm
Post by: Sirus on August 03, 2015, 11:13:34 pm
Post by: F.O.E. on August 03, 2015, 11:16:03 pm
Post by: Sirus on August 03, 2015, 11:21:41 pm
I think Caellath said she was maybe down in the dumps on irc a while back.:(
That's a shame.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on August 03, 2015, 11:34:48 pm
Yeah, I liked her. :-\I think Caellath said she was maybe down in the dumps on irc a while back.:(
That's a shame.
Post by: Solymr on August 04, 2015, 06:35:25 am
Yeah, this thread rises and falls. Usually falls.
SOLY, ADD MAH FEF TO THE TITLE PAGE. >:C
Well I need to add a bunch of FEFs like WoC so :v
I'll do it after lunch.
Post by: UXLZ on August 04, 2015, 06:49:09 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on August 04, 2015, 06:57:55 am
Her housing situation wasn't resolved and issues sprang from that, I believe.
But yeah, she's someone I'd like to see the glorious return of.
Post by: UXLZ on August 04, 2015, 07:09:56 am
Post by: Tiruin on August 04, 2015, 07:22:37 am
She isn't dead.+1 knowing her.
Her housing situation wasn't resolved and issues sprang from that, I believe.
But yeah, she's someone I'd like to see the glorious return of.
And +10, on that glorious return.
Let's make her a FEF gift! o_o
Post by: Solymr on August 04, 2015, 01:25:45 pm
Post by: Khaiel on August 23, 2015, 12:37:06 pm
He had an accident a while ago and asked me to log in his account so you would know he was out for a while... But I totally forgot. He is mostly ok now, but his arms hurt a lot, so he can't write. So, he has asked me to tell you he is ok now, and he will be trying to log in and post and that kind of stuff, but he won't probably be fully active until, at least, the 15th or 16th of September (he has to study for a few failed subjects).
That's it. The devil looks after his own, so Khaiel is mostly ok now. Sorry for forgetting about telling you (especially since he kept telling me to do it).
Have a good day.
Post by: Twinwolf on August 23, 2015, 12:37:54 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on August 23, 2015, 12:48:32 pm
Post by: Twinwolf on August 26, 2015, 03:02:48 pm
Oh, and Khaiel's FEF should probably be moved back to the active section in the OP.
Post by: Solymr on August 26, 2015, 03:07:19 pm
I use a program called mappy. I haven't made a map in months so I don't remember how does it work v:
Post by: GiglameshDespair on August 26, 2015, 03:07:27 pm
Post by: Haspen on August 26, 2015, 03:07:55 pm
Then you stuff the tileset in winmappy (for luddites like me) or Tiled (pretty much everyone else uses it).
And voila, maps :V
Post by: Twinwolf on August 27, 2015, 12:07:28 pm
Post by: Haspen on August 27, 2015, 01:19:15 pm
Where exactly do people get that tileset?
For mine you have to ask nicely :P
Post by: Twinwolf on August 27, 2015, 01:23:17 pm
Post by: Twinwolf on August 28, 2015, 08:15:09 am
Oh, and also a link to wherever it is you guys get the map sprites would also be nice...
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 28, 2015, 08:31:46 am
As for the number of chapters, it depends on how much story you have to tell? Also, not all chapters are going to have the same length or density of enemies or anything else. Because of that, there isn't a good 'golden number' to give you based on how strong you want your players to be by the end. As you get further in, you'll be able to guesstimate how many levels you can expect your players to get out of a particular set up you're doing. That said, average length seems to hover around a dozen or so main chapters, and a couple side chapters.
Also, if you're starting a game, I have a basic enemy sheet that you can use for mook generation based on a system Xanmy put together. You can grab it right here. So can anyone else, incidentally. (https://www.dropbox.com/s/kvs7czp4d7xg6v2/Basic%20enemy%20generation%20progression%20spread.txt?dl=0) If you have any questions, go ahead and ask.
Post by: Twinwolf on August 28, 2015, 08:38:21 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 28, 2015, 08:43:07 am
Post by: Twinwolf on August 28, 2015, 08:44:20 am
Also, does This (http://s42.photobucket.com/user/FireEmblemBeta/media/Overworld.png.html) seem like a good place to get map sprites?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 28, 2015, 08:51:57 am
Post by: Twinwolf on August 28, 2015, 09:08:52 am
Post by: Swordstar on August 28, 2015, 09:41:29 am
Post by: Twinwolf on August 28, 2015, 10:06:22 am
Post by: Haspen on September 08, 2015, 04:29:43 am
Do tell if someone gets it working, cuz I cannae :c
Post by: Twinwolf on September 08, 2015, 06:23:57 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 16, 2015, 09:24:11 pm
BMM42's Virtual Reality Fire Emblem on Forums is currently accepting applications, in case anybody didn't notice.
Yeah, it is.
Post by: Solymr on September 28, 2015, 01:25:27 pm
After some discussion about Reliable Attack I thought of an idea for Social Knights: since their gig is versatility, give them a choice between two abilities, Reliable Attack and Reliable Defense.
Reliable Attack would be like current version: once per map, allows attack in the same turn, affects Social Knight's weapon triangle mods (increasing DMG and Hit).
Reliable Defense would be a bit different: no limit per map but you have to give up your attack to activate it, affects the enemy's weapon triangle mods (effectively increasing DEF and Evade).
There's also the value of the bonus, this is the current status depending on weapon triangle position:
Social Knight < Enemy: SC gets +1 DMG, +5 Hit
Social Knight = Enemy: SC gets +1 DMG, +15 Hit
Social Knight > Enemy: SC gets +1 DMG, +5 Hit
OCD about numbers doesn't let me leave it like this, it could be equal for all cases or emphasizing having WTA like this:
Social Knight < Enemy: SC gets +1 DMG/DR, +5 Hit/Evade
Social Knight = Enemy: SC gets +1 DMG/DR, +10 Hit/Evade
Social Knight > Enemy: SC gets +1 DMG/DR, +15 Hit/Evade
Thoughts?
Post by: Swordstar on September 28, 2015, 01:31:09 pm
Spoiler: Butler/Maid (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Minstrel Class (click to show/hide)
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 28, 2015, 02:10:50 pm
Does Sol work like in FE:A, where the HP recovered is capped based on the remaining health of the target? Or does it work as it does in all previous versions where it's based solely on the damage from the attack it was activated on, regardless of enemy health?
Post by: Solymr on September 28, 2015, 02:16:15 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 28, 2015, 02:44:15 pm
Post by: Solymr on September 28, 2015, 03:54:33 pm
I was only pointing out that consistency is good, but you're the GM so if you really want it the other way it's not like I'm gonna stop you.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 28, 2015, 04:15:55 pm
Post by: F.O.E. on September 28, 2015, 04:51:55 pm
Edit: And Nosferatu, which is basically Sol, doesn't ever restore more HP than an opponent has.
Post by: Solymr on September 28, 2015, 05:14:10 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 28, 2015, 06:18:02 pm
I'd like to point out the latter version is from FE10 (and FE9 i guess but who the fuck did you give your occult scrolls to get it tho?) and FE10's T3 skills are well known to be one of the most unbalanced and OP things to ever appear in FE. Seriously proccing a mastery skill might as well have been proccing assassinate (unless you were of the unfortunate Whisper class).
Edit: And Nosferatu, which is basically Sol, doesn't ever restore more HP than an opponent has.
Previous fire emblems 4/5 also used the latter version.
Post by: Swordstar on September 28, 2015, 06:22:15 pm
/me shrugs
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 28, 2015, 06:41:50 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
So yeah, who wants Sol to be free instead of cost :v
Post by: Xanmyral on September 28, 2015, 09:50:55 pm
It strikes me as (sorta) similar case to Center or Imbue. They're honestly pretty great skills, but they require enough of a sink/requirements to set up to be meaningful that its not often dealt with. Aur has Imbue and its working good with him, for instance, but he spent the equivalent of two cost skills and half of his initial four to make it so.
Post by: Solymr on September 29, 2015, 04:51:36 am
Post by: Twinwolf on September 29, 2015, 02:50:53 pm
Post by: Solymr on September 29, 2015, 02:56:18 pm
Post by: Bluexdog on September 30, 2015, 02:16:26 pm
Post by: Bluexdog on October 03, 2015, 01:17:41 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on October 03, 2015, 01:24:37 pm
Post by: Haspen on October 07, 2015, 04:02:30 am
Post by: Sirus on October 07, 2015, 11:32:05 am
FEF5 Discussion and stuff thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=153456.0)You're a madman. A MADMAN
Post by: Twinwolf on October 11, 2015, 09:17:27 am
Post by: F.O.E. on October 11, 2015, 10:28:56 am
Edit: And I can't unlock it either.
Post by: Twinwolf on October 11, 2015, 10:56:55 am
Post by: Sirus on October 11, 2015, 10:57:45 am
Post by: Haspen on October 11, 2015, 01:42:14 pm
Post by: Twinwolf on October 11, 2015, 01:43:15 pm
Post by: Haspen on October 11, 2015, 01:44:28 pm
PM's lack of activity is even more infuriating cuz he posts a lot in the suggestion games right in the neighbourhood v;
Post by: F.O.E. on October 14, 2015, 01:53:02 am
Quote from: Uxie
[01:49:47] <Uxie> Just dropping by to mention that I haven't forgotten about you all, and intend on returning, but I will not be doing so until the 10th of November. Final Year Exams will soon be taking place. That's the reason why I went away again in the first place. Bye bye, seeya in a month~
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on October 14, 2015, 02:33:06 am
Post by: Sirus on October 14, 2015, 02:33:45 am
Post by: Solymr on October 14, 2015, 06:16:27 am
And good luck and that, I'm shur you'll do fine without us distracting v;
Post by: squeakyReaper on October 18, 2015, 05:40:28 pm
Post by: Haspen on October 27, 2015, 04:10:24 pm
Evil Countess from Princess Eleonore's times got herself to the future first to grab an Orb of Wishing #44 for herself for the sole purpose of exacting vengeance upon Princess Eleonore who (in the past, 10 years before actual game time) was receiving the Countess' baby but due to her inadequate training in nursing the babby was born dead.
So the whole ritual went wrong and das how you NEF2 players ended in the future. That's because Evil Countess, while in the future, read a book how the 'last Princess of Eferia' helped spare the country by marrying the enemy prince buuuut that's the problem; Evil Countess read the book on events that already transpired meaning that her meddling wasn't going to affect anything.
That's because Eleonore wasn't meant to return at all and the actual princess who saved Eferia was her younger sister Ophelia who was mentioned two or three times by Eleonore and who stayed behind 'in the past', during the siege.
Before Chapter 5 (the one we never got to) Evil Countess was going to lure and kidnap Eleonore to stab-torture her to death but NEF2 players would have a Big Damn Heroes moment and rescue the princess... or not, considering I had planned to put a group of enemies plus a door between NEF2 players and their blonde princess and KO counter is only 3 turns after all.
However, that wouldn't change anything cuz like I mentioned before, this was already a stable time loop and Evil Countess wouldn't gain much (maybe expect brief personal satisfaction if Eleonore's KO counter would run out) and she would be surely killed by NEF2 players. By the end of that Chapter another Orb of Wishing (with different serial number than the one used by ritual-performers in the past or the Evil Countess) would be found and that would allow NEF2 players return home; at least those that would like to return. Epilogue post would reflect these changes. Princess Eleonore would read the book and stay in the future and in the end marry Prince Ashak or whatever his name was and become the next Empress of Rivan Empire (the one that conquered Eferia in the past). ~FIN~
I wrote all this cuz someone mentioned interest in NEF plots and this is the only one I remember ;P
Post by: GiglameshDespair on October 29, 2015, 06:23:54 pm
I'm thinking of having a go at a Dark Souls based FEF - it wouldn't be set in the Dark Souls canon, but the setting would be
Each player has XX amount of humanity. This decreases by 1 each time they are downed. If the player is downed for three turns, they lose an additional 3 humanity and respawn at the nearest bonfire. If no bonfire is lit on that map, they do not respawn until one is lit. Players can spend humanity to kindle a bonfire. I've not decided entirely what effect this will have.
Humanity can be restored by using humanity sprites or defeating exceptional beings. Humanity sprites are rare, and can be traded for items of great worth, with both human merchants and other.
If the player runs out of humanity entirely, they become Hollow, a hostile NPC, and therefore must be destroyed. Some abysses cannot be climbed out of.
Each player has an estus flask that may be refilled at bonfires with an action. Estus flasks start off with few uses and minor healing, but can be upgraded with pieces and souls found throughout the world. Estus may be used on the player or other players; using estus on downed players will bring them back up and prevent them from having to respawn at a bonfire.
Thoughts? Interest?
Post by: Twinwolf on October 29, 2015, 06:27:12 pm
Post by: Sirus on October 29, 2015, 06:31:00 pm
Post by: Culise on October 29, 2015, 06:38:13 pm
Post by: Khaiel on October 31, 2015, 07:39:23 pm
I'll be lurking and reading, and maybe I'll do something around the forums to help me not die of boredom in the hospital, but mainly I'll be reading. And it's quite late, so that's all for now.
EDIT: I am not sure if I'm impressed or scared by Gigla's avatar. Quite possibly both.
Post by: F.O.E. on October 31, 2015, 07:43:58 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on October 31, 2015, 07:46:25 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 01, 2015, 06:53:30 pm
It doesn't stack directly with weapon weight; con is deducted from armour weight as well. It's an action to take armour on or off.
But I'd appreciate feedback: do you think that seems a good idea? Would you use the armours currently listed?
Post by: Solymr on November 06, 2015, 02:33:00 pm
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/fef1pdf/prologue.pdf
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 09, 2015, 09:29:31 am
also someone start another FEF so i can be in an active one ;-;
Post by: Haspen on November 09, 2015, 10:47:48 am
Post by: Swordstar on November 09, 2015, 01:04:34 pm
/me is shot
Naw, SB should totally sign up for it.
Post by: Solymr on November 10, 2015, 08:18:33 am
Post by: Haspen on November 10, 2015, 08:19:36 am
But nah really good for him :3
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 12, 2015, 09:19:07 am
(There are also how many people currently trying to get one of those spots?)...Wait, how many are trying to get a spot?
/me is shot
Naw, SB should totally sign up for it.
Also, if I can't make an archer, I
Post by: Swordstar on November 12, 2015, 12:20:16 pm
Post by: Haspen on November 12, 2015, 12:55:00 pm
Post by: Solymr on November 12, 2015, 12:55:30 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 12, 2015, 01:15:33 pm
Subterfuge and espionage shall be my guides this day...
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 15, 2015, 05:17:26 pm
Post by: flazeo25 on December 17, 2015, 05:01:26 am
Post by: Twinwolf on December 18, 2015, 04:11:42 pm
Post by: Swordstar on December 18, 2015, 04:55:08 pm
Also, for summoner, move and range can probably be assumed to be 5 and 1 unless otherwise stated. Well, maybe 6 for mov since they seem more likely to be promoted units.
Post by: Haspen on December 18, 2015, 07:38:56 pm
Post by: flazeo25 on December 19, 2015, 10:36:22 pm
Post by: Swordstar on December 19, 2015, 11:01:12 pm
Post by: flazeo25 on December 19, 2015, 11:07:50 pm
They can equip any weapon. Weight stuff depends on build and weapon, aka not easily plotted out.
So would a bounty hunter with 12 con be able to use d rank axes or staffs without a weight problem what a 11 con face?
Post by: Swordstar on December 19, 2015, 11:30:50 pm
Post by: flazeo25 on December 20, 2015, 12:04:12 am
Yeah. So like... D ranks give +1 to weight, C give +2, etc. So if they have 12 con, they can use any D rank weapon that weighs 11 or less without losing any speed, any C rank weapon that weighs 10 or less, etc. So max con a BH can have is 14 (Thief Trainee (base 4 +2 on character creation)--> either Thief or Scav (+3) --> BH (+5)) so go from there. Alternatively, lose a little speed, it's not the end of the world, especially since thief characters tend to be fast.Final question but any idea what staff weight be since it doesn't show, also so 12-14 con and very high speed would mean a BH could equip b or a weapon ranks without much downside?
Post by: Swordstar on December 20, 2015, 12:12:20 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 28, 2015, 08:05:33 pm
Quote
* Gigla sees XCEF and Seed of Chaos
<Gigla> ;_; i am a fail
<Hatkitty> SoC was you?
<Hatkitty> lol I thought it was sordsturr
<Gigla> yeah
<Gigla> ...
<Gigla> you were in it
<Hatkitty> shhh
Post by: Haspen on December 28, 2015, 09:00:13 pm
Post by: Swordstar on December 28, 2015, 09:26:30 pm
Post by: Solymr on January 08, 2016, 08:03:14 am
All you need to do is follow this link:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/fef1pdf/FEF1-1.pdf
And change the last number to see the rest of the parts (...FEF1-2.pdf; ...FEF1-3.pdf; and so on). Remember: there are 168 parts. Don't skip any :V!
It's recommended that you turn off the space between pages.
Missing/WIP:
-Some mugs
-Proper text shadows
-Lining up
-Background color
-Spelling and consistency checking
-Proper conversation threads
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 08, 2016, 08:50:20 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 08, 2016, 09:09:01 am
Post by: Solymr on January 08, 2016, 09:20:39 am
Post by: Sirus on January 08, 2016, 09:23:42 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on January 08, 2016, 09:25:22 pm
Yeah? Well I (and most people I think) have an allergy to manually typing in 168 individual download links :P
We gotta do what now
Post by: Powder Miner on January 08, 2016, 09:56:00 pm
Post by: Swordstar on January 08, 2016, 10:00:06 pm
Post by: Powder Miner on January 08, 2016, 10:07:20 pm
Post by: Furtuka on January 08, 2016, 10:10:35 pm
Post by: Solymr on January 09, 2016, 05:30:22 am
I will have it uploaded today dun worry.
Post by: Solymr on January 09, 2016, 01:21:03 pm
And here it is! My whoopsie has been rectified and the OP link is fixed too v: ENJOY
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 13, 2016, 10:28:03 am
*The nostalgia hits SerCon in the head, shattering the skull and bruising the brain!
*SerCon has been shot and killed.
Post by: Solymr on January 13, 2016, 11:02:24 am
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on January 13, 2016, 11:13:02 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 13, 2016, 11:52:34 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on January 13, 2016, 11:55:33 am
bad joke
SerCon
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 13, 2016, 12:02:32 pm
EDIT: Also wow was Derick a badass.
Post by: SOLDIER First on January 13, 2016, 12:42:28 pm
SerCon ignoring the bad joke
Me
Bad joke
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 13, 2016, 01:48:25 pm
SenBow, I'm kind of the perv master around these parts, I know damn well USEC was making a virginity joke. :V I was ignoring it in favor of being a sentimental old man. (I'll be 30 this year, that's old, right...? >.> Even if not, FEF1 itself will be three years old in a month, and that's been a long time at least.)
EDIT: Also wow was Derick a badass.
Soon you'll be SenileConcentrate, old man :v
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 13, 2016, 09:04:14 pm
Post by: Tiruin on January 14, 2016, 02:41:36 am
Soon you'll be SenileConcentrate, old man :vSeriousConcentrate, the venerable.
I can get behind that :P ~30 yrs isn't something to shy away from. Seeing the wisdom you got.
...
How much did you put into your stats, SC? :P
Planning to submit my planned FEF draft here but I'm very, very shy due to adding many new stuffs that it may not seem like a FEF. >_>
Post by: Xanmyral on January 14, 2016, 03:39:54 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 14, 2016, 03:43:18 am
Post by: IronyOwl on January 14, 2016, 05:25:39 am
Planning to submit my planned FEF draft here but I'm very, very shy due to adding many new stuffs that it may not seem like a FEF. >_>I once tried to run one about magical girls dying in a tower with no stat caps, all actions processed in one go, and instadeath at 0 HP. It still attracted a full roster and saddened everyone involved by instantly dying. The game, I mean, not the characters. The game had to live for the characters to die.
The point is you'll be fine. :P
although half because I don't really know what to emulate with FE.You know, this is something I've kind of wanted to ask for a long time:
What do people like about FEF? There's kind of a lot of things in there and I'm curious which parts are the move-y bits and which tend to just sort of be that way. I've noticed non-FE FEFs are fairly rare but seem to do pretty well, for instance, which makes me wonder how much the FE setting is incidental and how much it helps but not enough to starve out the occasional deviant.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 14, 2016, 05:30:12 am
Post by: Haspen on January 14, 2016, 05:52:33 am
@Tiruin: Personally, I would go with regular FEF first so you have some FEF GM experience (and find out just how much of time and work this horrendous abomination absorbs from you). After that I would go with 'mixing it up' with new mechanics and whatnot.
But of course that's up to you :v
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 14, 2016, 06:20:37 am
Post by: IronyOwl on January 14, 2016, 06:28:17 am
Post by: Haspen on January 14, 2016, 06:29:40 am
Still, everything's better then tentacle emblem back in 2013, I dun wanna stumble upon it again (if it still exists).
Post by: Twinwolf on January 14, 2016, 06:31:10 am
Post by: IronyOwl on January 14, 2016, 06:34:45 am
Still, everything's better then tentacle emblem back in 2013, I dun wanna stumble upon it again (if it still exists).Awww, how could I have missed that?! D:
Post by: Haspen on January 14, 2016, 06:59:51 am
Still, everything's better then tentacle emblem back in 2013, I dun wanna stumble upon it again (if it still exists).Awww, how could I have missed that?! D:
Go search on the internet, if it's still up '<.
Post by: SOLDIER First on January 14, 2016, 07:04:17 am
Post by: Tiruin on January 17, 2016, 08:23:19 am
My goal was to make it feel immersive (like how games progressed over the years).
This filled me with GREAT DETERMINATION. c:Planning to submit my planned FEF draft here but I'm very, very shy due to adding many new stuffs that it may not seem like a FEF. >_>I once tried to run one about magical girls dying in a tower with no stat caps, all actions processed in one go, and instadeath at 0 HP. It still attracted a full roster and saddened everyone involved by instantly dying. The game, I mean, not the characters. The game had to live for the characters to die.
The point is you'll be fine. :P
...Thanks for believing in me .-.
Planning to submit my planned FEF draft here but I'm very, very shy due to adding many new stuffs that it may not seem like a FEF. >_>So...Haspen has a very good point :D I'm a total newbie GM (though with a lot of probably-imbalanced ideas) and have not ever finished a FEF to the end, am possibly inexperienced in mid-game mechanics changes, and totally unsure on how to stat/balance custom classes not-in-the-handbook.
Quote from: List of plans for Tiruin's Planned FEF ._.;
Problems due to newbieship:
> May be putting too much detail due to lacking experience//focused idealism.
> Page 20; Handbook 1.3
-- *I'm...honestly unsure about what the stat limit means for first/second class//trainees ._.
++ What I do understand is that the stat limits are for...class progression and limitation. What I do NOT understand is why is there a cap on the second class.
> Page 20; 30; 54
-- I have no idea how to create custom classes, or change a class in-handbook (because there are no pegasus riders in the world I'm working with), OR diversify a class from a changed custom class! D:
> I'm wondering if I can make a third class. Something that is gotten from training or mastery within the world. From feats or secrets. It'll basically just be a second class, but an added PS or name and a few + to stats.
> Money! I don't know how to price custom items! D:
> The Pegasus Rider is removed and changed into a bird-type mount who I lack a name for. (Which is really inspired by the film: Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nausica%C3%A4_of_the_Valley_of_the_Wind_%28film%29). Credit to GUNINANRUNIN for poking me about the existence of Chocobos, and me missing half my life of not playing the Final Fantasy genre :v)
> I am unsure how large a map may be. Generally.
> I am uncertain whether a +/-5 is a significant amount when pertaining to Hit/Evade, or QL, as I plan to modify items and such due to these.
==+=+==
Plans:
> Use Handbook 1.3.
> Tons of renaming ._.
> Long-ish Campaign .-.
-- Which leads me to be thinking about a third-class (as seen above) because of how long it may be. :v I don't really know the exact scope. :'(
-- Also referring to the possibility of branching arcs. Like, due to my newbieness, I may generate a whole NPC team to kill y'all by accident and hello TPK. Usually this won't result in a TPK and it becomes a whole new path.
-- Starts with Trainee ranks; waitlist players joining post-first class get trainee level bonuses just like as if they were already in game, but somewhere else.
> Player interaction with the game world. As characters have backstories in the character sheet, this is expounded into a biography; Players are given a choice in the OOC on which major nation to begin with. This designates their starting location of origin--all have backgrounds of training with weaponry. {Planned: 2 Choices}
-- After the choice is done, they can pick from any countries, provinces, or city-states mentioned, even if it comes from the other major country-area [however it should be noted, they are foreigners in such a way]. All areas of mention have different social and cultural backgrounds, which in game mechanics mean a tiny change to their character's stats. Both major nations play a role in the planned story to come, even if any of their people will possibly never see each other!
--- Bonuses probably mean a major/minor choice. The Major Nation's bonuses only apply to the players. The Major/Minor choice can cover anything from a stat bonus (with a total of +3 spread out), or a minor modification to specific class skills (ie Daunt has +15 to its effect).Quote from: How it may look?
INDUSTRIAL COUNTRY #1 ++ Major Bonus Flavor Text Name {eg (INDUSTRIAL_NAME) "All player characters start out with +2 to HP"}
+ Minor Bonus Flavor Text Name {eg (CULTURAL_NAME) "All player/shop weapons start out with +5 to Hit"}SOCIO-CULTURAL COUNTRY #2 ++ Major Bonus Flavor Text Name {eg (FANCY_NAME) "All player characters start out with +15 to Stat Points at character creation"}
+ Minor Bonus Flavor Text Name {eg (CULTURAL_NAME) "Disarm is a Free skill; Player characters without Disarm have a 5% chance to disarm upon counterattack."}QuoteFollowed by a list of starting areas [which I can easily fix the map for] so it begins as:
Starting Area #1 [lore/location]
Players lack the MOV penalty for Sand environments. {as the location is Sand}
Starting Area #2 [lore/location]
Players begin with +5 Evade
[...]Spoiler: Class/Enemy/Item?/Mechanic Changes (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Terrain Details (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Game Aspects? (click to show/hide)
I lack the art for some examples...(mugs, especially).
This is a drafted sheet of things to newly be added, rather than homebrew changes. (ie Planning to change Counter to 'your current weapon range', but it's probably not new (as in I remember reading it somewhere), so it's not mentioned here.)
Maybe I'm being too ambitious(?)?
._.;
I'm very anxious. Hello anxiety while even pasting this down and giving it another look around ._.
It's also very messy. :'(
I'm adding buffing items because in the case where I accidentally overscale enemies, or intentionally scale enemies as per story/natural reasons, survival can still be attained (as is flexibility and variability of "what do I do"). Along with running away. :P
Please hit me with your best constructive criticism. :-\
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 17, 2016, 10:24:04 am
List of plans
First question: why modify the hit/Ql of weaponry? For the most part, 1.3 weaponry seems pretty decent.
The stat caps are the highest you can have in that stat. As a trainee, you cannot have a def higher than 10, for example, not matter what you rolled during level up.
Will your new bird mount have different stats and abilities? If so, what niche will it fill compared to a pegasus? If not, why do it? Do you have the sprites necessary to do it?
A map can be as large or as small as you like. As big as this map in fef2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=130467.msg6711501#msg6711501) or much smaller. There's no rules limiting it, but you need to consider the time it takes to complete the map, and the amount of enemies within.
+/-5 isn't huge, but it's still noticeable. 5 Ql is quite a big deal.
----
Campaign
You need to work out how long you want it to be. If it's reaching lvl20 promoted classes it's probably wuite a long campaign - you'll want a long, overarching plot for that.
Remember that all maps should be winnable with the correct strategy. If things are too easy, you can introduce enemy reinforcements; if things are too hard, players get mulched. FEF battles tend to be very all-or-nothing - this was something I'm trying to avoid in DSE, as death is, in a sense, less consequence.
----
Countries of origin
Sounds good, as long as it isn't a huge difference, otherwise min-maxing will probably go wild. Glowcat had starting races have an effect; so did swordstar (i think?). Maybe look at those. MInd that if you have an origin boosting only certain character specific skills, players will feel mandated to take them, or they'll gain nothing compared to those getting stat boosts.
Gaining a cost skill as a free skill may be very powerful - effectively it's granting them 30% more stat growth.
----
Class/Enemy/Item?/Mechanic Changes
Useable items? Yeah, all fine. There's a bunch in the handbook.
Placement swapping... I guess? I'd imagine it can't be done if someone has already attacked or used an item and doesn't have canto.
Supports boosting healing...I guess, yeah.
Con is five slots, yeah, no issues.
Rescuing is generally an action, and I wouldn't recommend changing that. I certainly wouldn't recommend allowing rescued people to be healed. It messes with people being at risk - especially with the action changes. If someone on the front lines can be rescued, healed, and dropped back in the same place in a single turn the strategic layer falls apart.
You need to expand on the cohort idea; do all the cohorts attack along with the player, or no? What if the cohort has range and the player doesn't? Can cohorts detach from the player and be their own unit? If players die, why can they be cohorts? For the sake of other players, ressurecting another would probably become the main goal, or people would get salty.
Let the dead be dead, I say.
I don't like the idea of staff-bearers automatically equipping a weapon; it reduces the risk for them substantially in a battle.
Little items that increase stats already exist in the handbook, so no complaints here. I like the idea of editing them onto the mug.
----
Terrain
It's terrain.
You might have made doors and walls etc a little bit beefy - but I suppose that's what some classes are for.
You given two different bonuses for mountains - one for mountain walk, one for not, but only mountain walk can enter according to that. +4/+4 and +30 eva also seems a bit much.
----
Game aspects
As above, you need to expand on the cohort idea before a prper judgement can be rendered.
Warding items... effectively giving everyone a heal staff with range can de-value healers quite a bit.
Minimaps: I guess? I don't see why not, if it helps people visualise things.
------
Well, that's my initial thoughts, but hey, it's a free system.
Post by: Tiruin on January 17, 2016, 10:46:32 am
Game aspectsI was more thinking [RNG: 1 is best] due to how everyone can use them, not considering the possible cost and such.
As above, you need to expand on the cohort idea before a prper judgement can be rendered.
Warding items... effectively giving everyone a heal staff with range can de-value healers quite a bit.
Expanding on the cohort idea is...a bit difficult. I haven't quite covered the specifics on their application rather than 'This idea may seem good and...{*abstract thoughts*}'. My first idea was 'these give the player more HP', and that was it. Then the other ideas came along as if they can help the player's damage and such, or rebalance//cancel the weapons triangle.
I was also poking a bit with the weapons, until I checked and counter-checked many subcategories as well as others' FEFs. 1.3 seems pretty great. :D [just the names won't fit?]
{1} The pegasus rider's niche to me is more of an anti-mage//magic-resistant flying cavalry: A great counter to mages and their out-of-physical ranged weaponry. Those bird-creatures are more the common mount of the world I'm planning in [or I could just go vanilla FEF .-.], with their variance and breeding giving very different results--so there are those with magic-resistance (basically replace 'winged horse' for 'flyable...ostrich-sized-mount', and others serving many sorts. The idea came to be after watching Nausicaa for the...3rd time after years, as I pondered upon how those nice bird-like creatures are able to do many different types of labor and work, and it came to me that the idea of [that-bird-like-thing] can be used just like the concept of our modern horse: different breeds for different specialized purposes, but they're the same animal :D
List of plans
1Will your new bird mount have different stats and abilities? If so, what niche will it fill compared to a pegasus? If not, why do it? Do you have the sprites necessary to do it?
2A map can be as large or as small as you like. As big as this map in fef2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=130467.msg6711501#msg6711501) or much smaller. There's no rules limiting it, but you need to consider the time it takes to complete the map, and the amount of enemies within.
[...]
{3}You need to work out how long you want it to be. If it's reaching lvl20 promoted classes it's probably wuite a long campaign - you'll want a long, overarching plot for that.
{4}Remember that all maps should be winnable with the correct strategy. If things are too easy, you can introduce enemy reinforcements; if things are too hard, players get mulched. FEF battles tend to be very all-or-nothing - this was something I'm trying to avoid in DSE, as death is, in a sense, less consequence.
...I'm unsure if I should provide sprites for them, but I could do that!
{2} Is there a general rule to the # of enemies? What about powerful enemies with limit to only their weapon range//access of secondary objectives?
{3} This ._. is going to be my weakpoint. It's generally going to be very long.
{4} I've taken that in mind pretty well (though it may not be really obvious when applied because I've found a big lapse between [me understanding things] and [me applying it :I]). All-or-nothing-but-with-flexibility-to-achieving-effects. I've been wondering if I could add tiny bits of flavor when describing scenery (visually and narrative-ly)--so that the tiny bits I describe could be used for later on as unorthodox actions.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 17, 2016, 11:16:58 am
2) Number of enemies will depend on how tough those enemies are, how much XP you want the players to gain, and whether all of them must be fought.
Effectively: 'enough, but not too many'.
3) Then you better get planning.
4) Define "unorthodox actions".
Post by: IronyOwl on January 17, 2016, 12:05:35 pm
Spoiler: Classes (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Amount (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Campaign (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Regions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Battle (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Terrain (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Cohorts (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Neat Tricks (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Headpats (click to show/hide)
Post by: Twinwolf on January 17, 2016, 12:09:14 pm
Post by: Swordstar on January 17, 2016, 12:30:31 pm
Spoiler: Thoughts (click to show/hide)
Post by: Furtuka on January 17, 2016, 05:49:29 pm
Quote
Beginners FEF
Welcome to Beginners FEF, a game meant as an introduction for players new to the FEF series of forum games. In comparison to a normal FEF, Beginner’s FEF is built to be much shorter than the usual campaign, taking place over the course of a mere five chapters.
FEF, standing for Fire Emblem on Forums, is as the name implies, a forum game built off the mechanics and themes of Nintendo’s Fire Emblem tactical RPG series. As such, it features several hallmarks of the franchise, including the concepts of character development and interpersonal bonds having effects in battle, the class system, and of course permadeath (Though a less harsh version due to the nature of the game).
It is currently planned for there to be 8 player characters in the party in total. To help guide the newer players, a system similar to Haspen’s old NEF series shall be used in Beginners FEF. Along with the 6 newcomers in the main player list, there shall be two slots reserved for veteran FEF players who will help guide and advise the newcomers as they progress through the game. However, it is asked that the veteran players please abstain from planning out the entire parties moves for them, less an emergency situation arise to necessitate it.
Resources:
The FEF Hub Thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=137453.0)
Players Handbook 1.3 (http://www.mediafire.com/download/v8r0s54gune7264/Player's+Handbook+v1.3.pdf)As it is currently the most popularly used version of the rules, Beginner’s FEF shall be primarily using an adjusted version of the Fire Emblem: The Further Journeys Handbook version 1.3 which can be downloaded from the link above.Spoiler: Rule alterations. Check here before creating your character. (click to show/hide)
Basic Terrain and Weather Guide (Stolen from FOE who stole it from swordstar who stole it from BMM42) (http://i.imgur.com/qCArGum.png)
Campaign Fluff and LoreLink to World Lore pastebin (http://pastebin.com/Sa3DcY3T)Spoiler: A Map of the Local Area and the Surrounding Countries (click to show/hide)
Link to Local Lore pastebin (http://pastebin.com/9itsz9n1)
Character Creation
Character Sheet Template (http://pastebin.com/bWkFkeKj)
Example Sheet (http://pastebin.com/02twmukU)
Characters are to be created as described within the player’s handbook, with a 330% progression total and 4 extra stat points to be distributed upon creation. Again, please check the rule changes listed further up above in this post before creating your character.
Leave the Affinity section of the character sheet blank, as you will be given a choice from a randomly chosen pair once your character has been accepted into the game.
Please note that in this game characters will be starting from First Tier Classes, as opposed to Trainee Classes. Also note that the cast will be starting as a group of mercenaries hired to escort someone across the country, so keep that in mind while writing your bio.
Mugs
When playing FEF, its common practice to have a set of mugs or “mugshots” to represent your character. While not truly necessary to play the game, the mug sets can aid in expressiveness and are considered to a large part of the fun of FEF. These mugs typically take the form of edited and spliced together versions of Fire Emblem character portraits made using image editing software. More specifically from the Gameboy Advanced entries of the Fire Emblem series.
For example.
(http://i.imgur.com/HfRNxQz.png)(http://i.imgur.com/31cyjdw.png)
Links to obtain the base sprites are listed below.
Fire Emblem 6 Mugshots (http://www.spriters-resource.com/fullview/38458/)
Fire Emblem 7 Mugshots (http://www.spriters-resource.com/fullview/38459/)
Fire Emblem 8 Mugshots. (Note, uses a different color pallet than the previous two) (http://www.spriters-resource.com/fullview/14464/)
If you consider yourself artistically unskilled or are unfamiliar with working with sprites and pixel arts, don’t be afraid. There are many people in the FEF community who are very happy to offer advice or help in making mugs for other players. If you need help, just post a request in this OOC thread or in the FEF Hub Thread.
As a last note, please don’t use somebody else’s spritework in your mug without gaining their permission. Tis rude and will get people very angry at you if you do.
Character List
Character sheets shall be accepted based on level of experience and quality of the submitted sheet, along with the need to create a balanced party. Outside of the veteran slots, players with zero or very little FEF experience will be given priority over those who haven’t.
The term Veteran as referred to here isn't very stictly defined, but a nice rule of thumb would be someone who has played through and completed at least two or three FEF chapters in the same campaign depending on participation level. Someone who once entered an FEF that died out after a chapter or two is not considered a veteran for the purposes of this game, so please don’t feel discouraged.
NPC Party Members
1. Andrew Andreas (http://pastebin.com/bfkpiM2E)
Veteran Characters
1.
2.
Newcomer Characters
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
Character Submission Cutoff Date: TBD
Post by: Twinwolf on January 17, 2016, 05:53:34 pm
Post by: Furtuka on January 17, 2016, 05:58:47 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 17, 2016, 06:19:11 pm
Are they monster hunters? Mercs?
Post by: Furtuka on January 17, 2016, 06:25:19 pm
Post by: Haspen on January 18, 2016, 01:46:45 am
Post by: Furtuka on January 18, 2016, 03:01:29 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on January 18, 2016, 10:17:31 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 18, 2016, 10:28:17 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on January 18, 2016, 10:35:18 am
Post by: Haspen on January 22, 2016, 12:34:22 pm
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on January 22, 2016, 12:39:32 pm
Post by: Haspen on January 22, 2016, 12:41:11 pm
That's... honestly a lot more sex slavery I expected from a Fire Emblem game. Just putting that out there.
Post by: SOLDIER First on January 22, 2016, 12:42:38 pm
Post by: Haspen on January 22, 2016, 12:44:59 pm
And plot is that you gotta find out what happened to the former v;
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on January 22, 2016, 12:45:49 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on January 22, 2016, 12:47:33 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 22, 2016, 02:48:21 pm
FEF6 basically confirmed. (http://pastebin.com/6SLUVKg0)Those drow are remarkably rapey... I do hope you're not turning into a /d/m, Hat. :s
So any hybrid would be at least twenty years old?
Post by: Haspen on January 22, 2016, 02:55:36 pm
So any hybrid would be at least twenty years old?
Yes, except second-generation hybrids but those are very rare, as most by then revert to fully human v:
That's why there's been not so many hybrid burnings in Magocracy territories as-of-late.
Post by: Haspen on January 22, 2016, 02:56:26 pm
FEF6 basically confirmed. (http://pastebin.com/6SLUVKg0)Those drow are remarkably rapey... I do hope you're not turning into a /d/m, Hat. :s
Wait what? v:
Post by: Twinwolf on January 22, 2016, 03:31:44 pm
FEF6 basically confirmed. (http://pastebin.com/6SLUVKg0)Yus.
Post by: IronyOwl on January 23, 2016, 08:13:14 am
It's madness I say, madness, and no amount of stiletto-wearing leather speedo-clad blue-skinned dominatruses are enough to make it normal.
Post by: Haspen on January 23, 2016, 08:19:44 am
Post by: Powder Miner on January 23, 2016, 10:02:04 am
more the SEX slavery you see
Post by: Swordstar on January 23, 2016, 10:36:39 am
Hat: I think one part about FEFs that I have extremely enjoyed so far is that there has not been anything involving rape*. Which is what sex slavery is. And that's a huge issue for me.
*as far as I know. There was one backstory that had to be modified because of it and one backstory that wasn't allowed because of it but besides that, yeah.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 23, 2016, 10:41:01 am
Post by: Haspen on January 23, 2016, 10:41:48 am
*Midquel of FEF1/FEF2 aboot Troy's rise to power
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 23, 2016, 10:45:02 am
Post by: Twinwolf on January 23, 2016, 10:52:42 am
Post by: AbstractTraitorHero on January 23, 2016, 03:04:51 pm
Mug Request 1
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 23, 2016, 03:33:49 pm
Post by: AbstractTraitorHero on January 23, 2016, 03:36:00 pm
Why not have a go yourself?I certainly would if i had a working computer i did do graphic design after all so i know how to do it but i can't becuase the computers so trashed that it freezes when you try and use something.
Post by: Swordstar on January 23, 2016, 03:36:46 pm
Post by: Twinwolf on January 23, 2016, 03:37:44 pm
Post by: AbstractTraitorHero on January 23, 2016, 03:39:26 pm
When you say white eyes, do you mean pure white eyes or like cataracts or something? Also, uh, is the first character supposed to be a vampire?The this person is blind kind of white so probably cartaracts
....no but now that i look at it ...they tottaly could be.
Post by: AbstractTraitorHero on January 23, 2016, 03:39:52 pm
Any specific armor or clothing types? Stuff like if the armor is light or heavy or whatever.Ill put that stuff in there right now!
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 23, 2016, 03:40:13 pm
Post by: AbstractTraitorHero on January 23, 2016, 03:46:44 pm
...Don't try to have vampire characters in games that don't have vampires.i was more thinking an albino really i was just saying they could defintly be a vampire if wanted i have no intention of playing a vampire.
Post by: Swordstar on January 23, 2016, 03:48:34 pm
Post by: AbstractTraitorHero on January 23, 2016, 03:49:46 pm
Err albinos usually have pale blue eyes, not red. It's just they tend to have red eyes in photographs more.Really i never knew that?
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 23, 2016, 04:07:18 pm
Post by: AbstractTraitorHero on January 23, 2016, 04:08:43 pm
I think even the eyes that are actually pink are just, well, sorta pink, rather than endless-pools-of-blood red.Then she shall have pink eyes!
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 23, 2016, 04:14:12 pm
Post by: AbstractTraitorHero on January 23, 2016, 04:18:46 pm
Unless someone makes them, no, she shall not :PCorrect but it's always better to imagine it will happen or it never will.
Post by: Tiruin on January 23, 2016, 04:19:43 pm
I don't think it's an issue as long as you don't see in happen in-game. The midquel does seem interesting...I think it's an issue in that people are directly feeling the perceived problem, but their wording goes along the 'most oriented idea', which may not match that specificity :O
Where I see it--the lore just needs a bit of refining. You can NOT base a race or societal culture fully along a deviant ethic alone, because that makes such a society become a 'flat "character"'. While it does make it a good prop for worldbuilding, it heavily discounts the space for character and behavioral building, unless the perspective is deconstructed. :P
But yeah. Making it revolve around deviant ethics as if that makes them stand is...a wide-scale no.
Also what swordstar said .-. That wording Hasp. I know you meant more, but...the wording and the responses shown here poke at it.
Hat: I think one part about FEFs that I have extremely enjoyed so far is that there has not been anything involving rape*. Which is what sex slavery is. And that's a huge issue for me.
*as far as I know. There was one backstory that had to be modified because of it and one backstory that wasn't allowed because of it but besides that, yeah.
Uhh, tl;dr: Central point of narrative focus + wording = audience response.
And now that I'm back from my 6 day leave...
==+=+==
+==+==+
==+=+==
Everything I've not mentioned, I assume are mutually ok and acknowledged :O (If anything you remember was of need of mention, please poke! I'm very fatigued at the moment/these past few days, and will most likely miss things!)
1) That didn't really answer - will there be a pegasus equivalent in classes? Will ordinary horse be replaced too, then?I now notice my unspecifity in reality, compared to my specificity in my thoughts. I am enlightened by your constructive criticism! :))
[...]
4) Define "unorthodox actions".
The idea of those bird-creatures replace the Pegasus and the Wyvern--horses are alright, since the former 2 seem more context dependent given the FE universe. Otherwise, all roles are generally the same and just up for lore-modifications (you can think of it as 'renamed classes + different sprites, also ostrich-like mounts' in short), along with minor shifts to their stats...but that goes with me learning on class making. :-\
Unorthodox actions like people being creative when they see something by visual design, and working around with it under bounds of reason. This can be talked about in the OOC anyway if uncertain, but I would like to make things...reward creativity. :P (ie You see shallow water nearby. You are a fire-caster. You spend that 1 QL of your weapon and your full turn, to make that pool of water into fog, creating a 2-tile wide fog of war which may block enemy sight and ranged weaponry!)
I'm gonna drop this here.Spoiler: Classes (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Amount//That bird-thing (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Campaign (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Regions (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Neat Tricks (click to show/hide)
IO, You inspire me a lot by how you work with communication. It is very inspiring and something to look up on, on how your wording gives a very clear-cut meaning (with silly humor). Thankies much :D
> Is there some kind of template for class-making? How did Haspen make his Alchemist? Or that Tactician?
> On the bird-thing, it's an in-lore change from Pegasi and probably Wyverns. It's more aesthetic and such than that, and possibly more variant, given the wide utility...in my offline notes...about them x_x
Meaning that I'm not technically removing pegasus riders. Those riders are just riding not-winged-horses! The niche still exists, it's under a different name.
-- I also agree on the long-ish campaign. On deep reflection on myself, I either need: support from friends, or GM-ing confidence, because my anxiety cuts deep given...the state of this response, and...affecting me meeting deadlines for a game review I promised a very good friend. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=154932.msg6758545#msg6758545) :-\
> I'm unsure what's a situational ability and what generally isn't D: Are there any general parameters for one to consider?
-- You're a genius and I am eureka'd. That kind of reframing was what I was exactly looking for! I was uncomfortable with how I wrote that and- ohhh thanks a ton.
> Gonna change Battle mechanics by talking with others :)
Spoiler: On Cohorts; additional game aspects here (click to show/hide)
> @Headpats: Yeaaaah this is why you inspire me. :'( It's even worded very cutely!
...I'm just going to note that +15 starting stats seems incredibly overpowered compared to +2 HP.How's about +10 to starting stats; cannot be placed in stat potentials over 50%, or in stat potentials below 30%, and cannot exceed a threshold limit of 5 points from the bonus amount in total. {May be messy worded! I'm tired D:}
> Is +2 HP ok though? That's a relative equivalent of 2 successful levels of HP :D
Aww. Bad idea D: I was aiming for the theme of 'these dudes seem to be better because of training so...' so there'd be a tiny bit of a shift, but one that isn't *TOO* significant as to really skew the tides of battle. Since...the general idea of the campaign is crossing nations in the end. :P I'll be gathering insight along the way, thanks! :D {Could I ask more details on why it's a bad idea?}Spoiler: Thoughts (click to show/hide)
> Most reasons on terrain swappity's is...because I'm ambitious? .-. I should talk with Xanmy over it x_x
> It was more on the half-baked side as well as the cohorts until I began re-gathering my notes :'( It sounds good on paper though!
Post by: Twinwolf on January 23, 2016, 04:25:56 pm
Post by: Swordstar on January 23, 2016, 04:26:57 pm
Battle formation sounds like another thing that might work in theory but would require a lot of time and playtesting to balance correctly.
You might want to try and run a short unedited game first to get a better understanding of the effort required and a better understanding of the balance of the game. There's some stuff you can really get a better understanding of when you run a game.
Post by: Tiruin on January 23, 2016, 04:28:20 pm
Really, the issue is that while +2 HP is one possible stat in 2 levels, +15 starting stats is like three good levels. And two of those stat points can be put into HP. Really, +2 HP can't be compared at all. The closest bonus would be an extra +2 to spend in a addition to the +4 everyone gets under the same restrictions. And even then, the fact that you can choose which stat or stats it goes into makes it so that there's literally no reason to pick the +2 HP over the other one.Oh. ._. I didn't consider any of that.
What about +5 HP? :P
...Maybe I should run a test-FEF to iron out the creases?
edoot:
You might want to try and run a short unedited game first to get a better understanding of the effort required and a better understanding of the balance of the game. There's some stuff you can really get a better understanding of when you run a game.Yaaaaaay :D
Post by: Twinwolf on January 23, 2016, 04:30:16 pm
-snip-Again, any kind of +HP versus +Starting stats is no comparison because of the fact you can put starting stats into HP. Maybe +5 HP versus +2 starting stats.
Also, if you run a test FEF, I'll join it.
Post by: Swordstar on January 23, 2016, 04:32:12 pm
Post by: Tiruin on January 23, 2016, 04:34:33 pm
Thanks for all that! c:
Post by: Swordstar on January 23, 2016, 04:35:50 pm
Post by: Tiruin on January 23, 2016, 04:40:23 pm
Oh, I'm more debating with Twin than you :PThisis me being fatigued x-x i need sleep and hugs.
Thanks for the debating :P
Post by: Haspen on January 27, 2016, 11:21:33 am
It seems that with real-time conversation some pretty cool peeps from around here can go crazy with insults and such on a moment's notice only to defend themselves with snark and whatever.
I will have to re-consider if official FEFgames IRC channel should still be maintained or if we should go back to individual OOC topics. I remember that in the latter arguments were less frequent and less severe.
Post by: IronyOwl on January 27, 2016, 12:21:51 pm
Unorthodox actions like people being creative when they see something by visual design, and working around with it under bounds of reason. This can be talked about in the OOC anyway if uncertain, but I would like to make things...reward creativity. :P (ie You see shallow water nearby. You are a fire-caster. You spend that 1 QL of your weapon and your full turn, to make that pool of water into fog, creating a 2-tile wide fog of war which may block enemy sight and ranged weaponry!)Hah, that's neat.
I'm gonna drop this here.Dawww, no problem. :3
IO, You inspire me a lot by how you work with communication. It is very inspiring and something to look up on, on how your wording gives a very clear-cut meaning (with silly humor). Thankies much :D
> Is there some kind of template for class-making? How did Haspen make his Alchemist? Or that Tactician?Not that I know of, and no idea. When in doubt, copying and then modifying whatever class is closest to what you're going for is a good bet.
> I'm unsure what's a situational ability and what generally isn't D: Are there any general parameters for one to consider?It's just a matter of how often and how obviously it comes up, and how well it fits into someone's mental image of the character. Though come to think of it, I guess you'll be the one needing to remember rather than the players... but then, if they forget they have an ability then it's hard to take advantage of it.
For instance, bonus defense on forest tiles is situational, but forest tiles are fairly common and standing on them to be tougher is fairly common, so it's probably easy for everyone to remember. The player will most likely be thinking "Okay, where's some forest tiles? It's really good to get on forest tiles where possible." The GM will most likely be thinking "Okay, his turn. Right, he's on forest tiles again, so he gets the bonus." It becomes a part of his character, especially if it matches really well thematically.
On the other hand, consider a bonus to attacking priests on forest tiles. Well... it's still situational, but it's also rare. You're probably not gonna fight too many priests, and the priests you do fight probably aren't going to be on forest tiles a lot, and there's only so much you can do to encourage that to happen... so the player will most likely not be stalking the map, thinking to themselves "Okay, I'm good at attacking priests on forest tiles. Time to find the priests on forest tiles." The GM will likewise probably not be thinking "Okay, his turn. Ah yes, is he attacking a priest on a forest tile?" It's not really a part of his character, especially if it doesn't fit all that well thematically.
So there aren't any hard and fast rules, but you should consider how often a trait is likely to come up, how often players can influence when it comes up, and how thematically it's going to fit their characters. If sand is a really common terrain type and the players are all Arabian themed, Sandwalking is likely to be an easy to remember ability. If sand is fairly rare and the characters are all European-looking, it's likely to be the kind of thing you forget about except in rare circumstances.
The world map thing sounds interesting. Good luck refining everything out.Spoiler: On Cohorts; additional game aspects here (click to show/hide)
> @Neat Tricks: Probably as a balance to the Cohort system//additional stuffs I plan to implement. It's more like 'my thoughts are messy-they made sense before and...err. Let me gather them again @_@' wherein it seems to make "a bit more sense" when you begin to expand other details of the battlefield. (and probably help those who are just 'moving along'//are too slow, so they can at least be partly more useful :P )Ah. Well, careful that you don't end up trying to solve complexity with more complexity. :P
It's a bad idea because it's almost impossible to balance it, plus characters tend to be overpowered enough as it is by the end. As has already been pointed out, just the difference in the two that you've already suggested are huge. And then some are very map specific (ignoring desert tiles) vs some that are always around (disarm is a free skill/gets a 5% chance to disarm) so either you need to work *very* hard to balance things or you need to reduce the amount of bonuses because it's going to be unbalanced.Everything in here is always true. It's not like FEF is super balanced, it just works because it's good enough and interesting. Endgame characters being really overpowered isn't going to be made much worse by a few free statups. There's no point avoiding something interesting just because "it might be unbalanced" or "it'll take work to make balanced." You don't get an actual game like that, and you certainly don't get FEF.
Testing is good. Testing is also time-consuming. Absolutely do it if you think it'll give you good data, but don't let it turn into a substitute or obstacle to planning or running your actual game.Really, the issue is that while +2 HP is one possible stat in 2 levels, +15 starting stats is like three good levels. And two of those stat points can be put into HP. Really, +2 HP can't be compared at all. The closest bonus would be an extra +2 to spend in a addition to the +4 everyone gets under the same restrictions. And even then, the fact that you can choose which stat or stats it goes into makes it so that there's literally no reason to pick the +2 HP over the other one.Oh. ._. I didn't consider any of that.There goes my narrative hook.
What about +5 HP? :P
...Maybe I should run a test-FEF to iron out the creases?
edoot:You might want to try and run a short unedited game first to get a better understanding of the effort required and a better understanding of the balance of the game. There's some stuff you can really get a better understanding of when you run a game.Yaaaaaay :D
So, much to my chagrin, I have been informed (and provided logs of) yet another argument on the IRC channel as of late. I don't like this at all, especially because I like all you guys and I don't want to take sides.I don't really go in there, but this makes me sad.
It seems that with real-time conversation some pretty cool peeps from around here can go crazy with insults and such on a moment's notice only to defend themselves with snark and whatever.
I will have to re-consider if official FEFgames IRC channel should still be maintained or if we should go back to individual OOC topics. I remember that in the latter arguments were less frequent and less severe.
Post by: Furtuka on January 30, 2016, 03:24:00 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on February 10, 2016, 06:31:11 am
Post by: Haspen on February 10, 2016, 07:13:03 am
My laptop seems to be dying so I might not be around much for a little bit.
...do you want to send all your FEF stuff to me via email for safekeeping? :P
Post by: Furtuka on February 19, 2016, 07:47:01 pm
I did the best I could to keep it mod free for easy sharing, but I wound up using this one for the wizard hats. (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=626235605&searchtext=fancy)
Edit: Gah forgot that I had attached a placeholder last name to Riven. Will fix that as soon as I figure out what to replace it with.
EDITEDIT: Fixed a couple errors I made.
Post by: Haspen on March 08, 2016, 07:54:51 am
Quote
(13:51:08) prettyprettynun: hatkitty i had a dream about you last night
(13:51:20) prettyprettynun: you were making a new fef
(13:51:31) prettyprettynun: where all the characters were reverse centaurs
(13:51:36) prettyprettynun: body of a man, head of a horse
(13:52:18) prettyprettynun: neigh emblem on forums
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on March 08, 2016, 11:31:04 am
Post by: Haspen on March 08, 2016, 12:01:59 pm
Post by: Twinwolf on March 13, 2016, 05:50:18 pm
Post by: Haspen on March 15, 2016, 02:43:36 pm
Quote
(20:37:26) Hatkitty: http://i.imgur.com/XGrBJuX.png "In the year 199X, on the post-apocalyptic Earth... *heavy metal chord*"
(20:39:05) Gigla: the skeleton war had begun?
(20:40:03) Hatkitty: great now I imagine skeletons riding dinosaurs blasting each other with laser rifles amongst ruins of Detroit while thunder rolls over the red-clouded sky
(20:40:57) Hatkitty: all while in the post-nuclear swamplands a tribe of mutant frogmen hold a council about invading the skeletal realm
(20:41:37) Gigla: Oh yeah! it's an old school dinosaur laser fight!
(20:41:48) Gigla: hatkitty: now we know the setting for next fef? :P
(20:41:54) Gigla: but yeah, that sounds pretty awesome
Quote
(20:43:55) Hatkitty: velociraptor riders as speedy mounted units (pegasi)
(20:43:59) Hatkitty: t-rexes for wyverns
(20:44:10) Hatkitty: magos being users of pre-war nano-pads
(20:44:13) Hatkitty: aka books of doom
(20:44:18) Hatkitty: and warriors being warriors, duh
(20:44:23) Hatkitty: this can actually work
Post by: Sirus on March 15, 2016, 02:54:24 pm
Post by: Culise on March 15, 2016, 03:02:30 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on March 15, 2016, 03:02:53 pm
Post by: Haspen on March 15, 2016, 03:13:58 pm
Maybe they could ride pterodactyls?
Pterodactyls, t-rexes, velociraptors... O:!
Well, with dinosaurs straight out of the lost world, the stage is already set for ray guns and jetpacks...
Ray of healing! Ray of stasis! RAY OF DEATH :O!
Post by: Swordstar on March 15, 2016, 03:19:06 pm
Post by: Haspen on March 15, 2016, 03:20:02 pm
Have we found fef6?
FEF6 is FEF1/2 midquel. FEF7 was... Neigh Emblem.
Dinosaurs is thus FEF8 :P
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 12, 2016, 06:18:08 pm
Quote
<BMM42> So I was writing fluff text and came up with yet another alternate skill for archers
<BMM42> After attacking an enemy on defensive terrain, the target loses terrain bonuses until they complete one combat.
<BMM42> Like they're flushing an animal out from bushes or something
Discuss.
Post by: Swordstar on April 12, 2016, 06:25:55 pm
Post by: freeformschooler on April 12, 2016, 06:27:17 pm
Have we found fef6?
FEF6 is FEF1/2 midquel. FEF7 was... Neigh Emblem.
wait what
Post by: F.O.E. on April 12, 2016, 08:05:45 pm
<BMM42> So I was writing fluff text and came up with yet another alternate skill for archers
<BMM42> After attacking an enemy on defensive terrain, the target loses terrain bonuses until they complete one combat.
<BMM42> Like they're flushing an animal out from bushes or something
yoi
Post by: Haspen on April 13, 2016, 03:42:16 am
In my ongoing quest to find us an archer skill that everyone can agree is useful, thematic, and appropriate for the class level, I present to you this.Quote<BMM42> So I was writing fluff text and came up with yet another alternate skill for archers
<BMM42> After attacking an enemy on defensive terrain, the target loses terrain bonuses until they complete one combat.
<BMM42> Like they're flushing an animal out from bushes or something
Discuss.
Why.
Post by: Solymr on April 13, 2016, 07:05:51 am
Also while we're talking archers might as well post my sniper thing :v
A while back we did some staff specialization for the saint class where depending on which subcat they raise to S rank they get a different special, so I propose something similar. The all around special would be something like they currently have where they get offensive bonuses equal to defensive bonuses from the terrain they're on (Sniper's Nest or something) and another depending on bow subcategroy they raise to S:
-For Recurve, Putting Arc in Archery: Recurve bows have +1 range.
-For Longbow, uhh I don't remember :v
-For Crossbow, Charge Stopper: Crossbows counterattack first against mounted units.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 13, 2016, 07:54:54 am
In my ongoing quest to find us an archer skill that everyone can agree is useful, thematic, and appropriate for the class level, I present to you this.Quote<BMM42> So I was writing fluff text and came up with yet another alternate skill for archers
<BMM42> After attacking an enemy on defensive terrain, the target loses terrain bonuses until they complete one combat.
<BMM42> Like they're flushing an animal out from bushes or something
Discuss.
Why.
It's a pretty basic hunting strategy, a lot of archers in the games are hunters before they join your army, seems to fit.
Or did you mean why discuss?
So this would be a debuff they apply? Other classes such as fighter ignore bonuses when attacking people in forests, this would be a thing other allies would benefit too?
Also while we're talking archers might as well post my sniper thing :v
A while back we did some staff specialization for the saint class where depending on which subcat they raise to S rank they get a different special, so I propose something similar. The all around special would be something like they currently have where they get offensive bonuses equal to defensive bonuses from the terrain they're on (Sniper's Nest or something) and another depending on bow subcategroy they raise to S:
-For Recurve, Putting Arc in Archery: Recurve bows have +1 range.
-For Longbow, uhh I don't remember :v
-For Crossbow, Charge Stopper: Crossbows counterattack first against mounted units.
I feel like Snipers getting +1 range and attack bonuses from hanging out on defensive terrain is pretty solid as a bonus and works just fine.
That aside, the crossbow bonus doesn't seem sensible (automatic vantage against a specific tree of units? Excuse you?) and Recurve looks even worse (Effectively makes Recurves better than Longbows)
Post by: Tiruin on April 13, 2016, 07:57:41 am
Maybe narrow it down to specifics if you'll follow that kinda thinking :P It'll...be very hard to imagine if the context applies to 'people on the mountains/hills/forests, or especially a fortress being fired at by an archer from the plains'.In my ongoing quest to find us an archer skill that everyone can agree is useful, thematic, and appropriate for the class level, I present to you this.Quote<BMM42> So I was writing fluff text and came up with yet another alternate skill for archers
<BMM42> After attacking an enemy on defensive terrain, the target loses terrain bonuses until they complete one combat.
<BMM42> Like they're flushing an animal out from bushes or something
Discuss.
Why.
It's a pretty basic hunting strategy, a lot of archers in the games are hunters before they join your army, seems to fit.
Or did you mean why discuss?
I'm thinking along the lines of 'If the archer with a bow that can hit in RNG 1 is attacked in melee--if they've a higher SPD, then they get to attack first', because many archers are proficient enough with the bow that they can nock, pull and fire very quickly (historical context).
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 13, 2016, 08:03:29 am
I don't think narrowing the terrain type that it works on is sensible either, since as it stands it doesn't actually force the target out from their cover, it only denies them the benefit of that cover for a single follow up attack.
Post by: Solymr on April 13, 2016, 08:29:42 am
Soldiers get a noticeable bonus against mounted units, do you see a problem with that?
And yes, pigeonholing is a thing, but same thing happens with saints, after all they're getting two specials.
Finally I have no idea what to do for longbows but it should be enough so that they're an option against recurve.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 13, 2016, 08:35:15 am
Problem with all snipers getting +1 range is people pewpewing from range 4 (see Charlotte) or having a tank able to crossbow anyone outside their counter range and being able to counterattack all but siege attacks (see Otiros).
Range 4 requires that the sniper use longbows (lower damage/accuracy for the whole tree) and we all already know the drawbacks of the crossbow tree. The main reason Charlotte looked OP was because almost everyone in FEF1 was a critmonster.
Soldiers don't effectively get a better version of a class skill against them, just a damage boost.
The difference is that saints can PICK what pigeonhole they make for themselves. Tiruin's proposal effectively forces archers to take crossbows or get no class special.
Post by: Solymr on April 13, 2016, 08:38:22 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 13, 2016, 08:42:34 am
Post by: Tiruin on April 13, 2016, 08:49:16 am
On that point, I should've specified by saying 'bow' that I did not mean crossbow, because I'm not thinking along the context of FEF terms but realistic terms. >~< (Since FEF categorizes that under 'bow' and...yeah.)
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 13, 2016, 08:50:32 am
._.; Being talked about in that kinda wording makes me feel...strange.
On that point, I should've specified by saying 'bow' that I did not mean crossbow, because I'm not thinking along the context of FEF terms but realistic terms. >~< (Since FEF categorizes that under 'bow' and...yeah.)
But Tiruin, aside from the nomad class weapon, only crossbows can fire at range 1.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on April 13, 2016, 08:52:53 am
Something to keep in mind, though, solymr - if you give more range to recurve bows or more accuracy to longbows, what difference is left between the subcats? If you just make recurves "longbows but better" or vice versa there's even less reason to ever use the alternative.
A longbow is still going to outrange most things. That's kind of the point. There's nothing stopping you adding enemy snipers, either, if you really want to be able to counter. But there's also other methods. Enemies with pass. Flanking the group. Aforementioned siege magic.
Post by: Solymr on April 13, 2016, 08:55:40 am
Post by: Tiruin on April 13, 2016, 08:55:44 am
Aren't Recurve bows designed to have RNG of 1-2, and are a category (just like crossbows) in itself? o_O._.; Being talked about in that kinda wording makes me feel...strange.
On that point, I should've specified by saying 'bow' that I did not mean crossbow, because I'm not thinking along the context of FEF terms but realistic terms. >~< (Since FEF categorizes that under 'bow' and...yeah.)
But Tiruin, aside from the nomad class weapon, only crossbows can fire at range 1.
...I didn't think about the RNG 2/2-3 bows though :-X But I'm feeling like it should be aligned with the mechanics of the archer class tree itself, or at least highlight something on your goal there.
In my ongoing quest to find us an archer skill that everyone can agree is useful, thematic, and appropriate for the class levelIf you mean 'upon reaching Archer' (and not Trainee/its 3rd class), other than being the only unit able to use ballistae and have an effective vs flyers, I'm thinking something along...
+ to damage if an archer's STR is higher than opponents DEF? o_O Going to hurt mages and other low DEF classes but I'm unsure now x_x It feels balanced as it is (in my inexperienced opinion).
Post by: GiglameshDespair on April 13, 2016, 08:56:34 am
Aren't Recurve bows designed to have RNG of 1-2, and are a category (just like crossbows) in itself? o_O._.; Being talked about in that kinda wording makes me feel...strange.
On that point, I should've specified by saying 'bow' that I did not mean crossbow, because I'm not thinking along the context of FEF terms but realistic terms. >~< (Since FEF categorizes that under 'bow' and...yeah.)
But Tiruin, aside from the nomad class weapon, only crossbows can fire at range 1.
...I didn't think about the RNG 2/2-3 bows though :-X But I'm feeling like it should be aligned with the mechanics of the archer class tree itself, or at least highlight something on your goal there.
Crossbows are 1-2
Recurves are 2
Longbows are 2-3
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 13, 2016, 09:04:25 am
Aren't Recurve bows designed to have RNG of 1-2, and are a category (just like crossbows) in itself? o_O._.; Being talked about in that kinda wording makes me feel...strange.
On that point, I should've specified by saying 'bow' that I did not mean crossbow, because I'm not thinking along the context of FEF terms but realistic terms. >~< (Since FEF categorizes that under 'bow' and...yeah.)
But Tiruin, aside from the nomad class weapon, only crossbows can fire at range 1.
...I didn't think about the RNG 2/2-3 bows though :-X But I'm feeling like it should be aligned with the mechanics of the archer class tree itself, or at least highlight something on your goal there.In my ongoing quest to find us an archer skill that everyone can agree is useful, thematic, and appropriate for the class levelIf you mean 'upon reaching Archer' (and not Trainee/its 3rd class), other than being the only unit able to use ballistae and have an effective vs flyers, I'm thinking something along...
+ to damage if an archer's STR is higher than opponents DEF? o_O Going to hurt mages and other low DEF classes but I'm unsure now x_x It feels balanced as it is (in my inexperienced opinion).
Archers are not even close to being the only unit to be effective vs fliers. Nomads, Bow Spies and anyone with a wind tome can boast the same.
The problem with touting Ballistae exclusivity for the Archer is that we almost never see ballistae available for use by PCs.
I'm going to try some things to rectify that in VRFEF, but we'll see how that works.
Post by: Tiruin on April 13, 2016, 09:05:49 am
Oh. :-XAren't Recurve bows designed to have RNG of 1-2, and are a category (just like crossbows) in itself? o_O._.; Being talked about in that kinda wording makes me feel...strange.
On that point, I should've specified by saying 'bow' that I did not mean crossbow, because I'm not thinking along the context of FEF terms but realistic terms. >~< (Since FEF categorizes that under 'bow' and...yeah.)
But Tiruin, aside from the nomad class weapon, only crossbows can fire at range 1.
...I didn't think about the RNG 2/2-3 bows though :-X But I'm feeling like it should be aligned with the mechanics of the archer class tree itself, or at least highlight something on your goal there.
Crossbows are 1-2
Recurves are 2
Longbows are 2-3
...Can we have a poll on the general idea towards archers like the polls before? :v I'm going for emphasis for Archers using bows (as in they get a unique skill that affects bow categories they use, so that while any other class can use those categories--archers can do it...better?)
Post by: freeformschooler on April 13, 2016, 12:10:27 pm
Something to keep in mind, though, solymr - if you give more range to recurve bows or more accuracy to longbows, what difference is left between the subcats? If you just make recurves "longbows but better" or vice versa there's even less reason to ever use the alternative.
Echoing this. Class abilities are more fun if they enhance strengths (Charlotte) rather than mitigate weaknesses (Efa).
Post by: Haspen on April 13, 2016, 12:51:25 pm
Quote
(16:18:13) Hatkitty: it was 'enemies of the Archer gain maximum of 5 Evasion bonus from all terrain.'
And obligatory mention of my FEF things:
Quote
(16:20:36) Hatkitty: Solymr: my snipers had +1 max.range in FEF1; guaranteed 85% hit in FEF2 to 5.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on April 13, 2016, 02:01:51 pm
They could have something like:
Lucky arrow: Once per map, can choose to autohit
Archers are already pretty good, with potentially being able to attack 1, 2, or 3 range and effective damage vs fliers. They don't necessarily need a massively potent class skill.
Post by: Solymr on April 13, 2016, 02:03:47 pm
In that case, what about giving +1 range to longbows and giving recurve some crit bonus or something to make the role of each weapon clearer, longbows: outrange u, recurve: kill u.
Alternatively, IIRC Sure Shot in FE8 was a separate roll, like great shield, that ensured a hit and only depended on the sniper.
Also any bow user is able to do what archers do but with something else. Nomads have improved canto, spies have different stuff depending on the GM :V
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 23, 2016, 07:23:01 pm
Post by: Haspen on April 25, 2016, 04:38:05 am
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Characters.FireEmblemOnForums
You will reverse the vandalisms you have done to the Characters page of FEFtropes, or we will be talking wholly lot differently.
Thank you.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 25, 2016, 04:42:28 am
EDIT: I fixed it myself via notepad find & replace.
Post by: Swordstar on April 25, 2016, 07:18:49 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 25, 2016, 07:20:06 am
Post by: Haspen on April 25, 2016, 07:36:58 am
Yeah, there's probably a few I missed. I did say I just did a wordsearch find and replace to get rid of the majority of it.
>posts history link containing all teh changes
>uses wordsearch instead
sercon pls
Post by: Solymr on April 25, 2016, 07:40:11 am
Still it has to be fixed. I thought there was a rollback feature though?
Post by: Powder Miner on April 25, 2016, 07:54:55 am
Post by: Culise on April 25, 2016, 08:52:19 am
Admittedly, I cannot see much merit in a Cloud-to-Butt plug-in, either, but that at least might have some cheap humour value...
Post by: kj1225 on April 25, 2016, 08:53:46 am
:-[
Post by: Haspen on April 27, 2016, 04:40:01 am
http://lparchive.org/Fire-Emblem-Different-Dimensions-Ostian-Princess/
Go read, its so bad its hilarious
Post by: GiglameshDespair on May 01, 2016, 11:40:45 am
Courtesy of the FE topic in general discussion, I present to you!Truly astounding.
http://lparchive.org/Fire-Emblem-Different-Dimensions-Ostian-Princess/
Go read, its so bad its hilarious
In my ongoing quest to find us an archer skill that everyone can agree is useful, thematic, and appropriate for the class level, I present to you this.Quote<BMM42> So I was writing fluff text and came up with yet another alternate skill for archers
<BMM42> After attacking an enemy on defensive terrain, the target loses terrain bonuses until they complete one combat.
<BMM42> Like they're flushing an animal out from bushes or something
Discuss.
I think I'll be using that for a monster class in a thing I'm planning, if that's ok?
Probably gonna use it anyway if you say no, but... :P
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 01, 2016, 12:18:19 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on May 01, 2016, 03:41:51 pm
Assuming something tragic doesn't happen and I die a horrible death or something.
Post by: Sirus on May 01, 2016, 06:04:13 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on May 02, 2016, 07:13:46 am
(http://i.imgur.com/RcgQRvH.png)
Details here. (http://pastebin.com/jX4kQUWT)
I'd like to know what you think - does it seem interesting? Does it seem balanced? I'd particularly like thoughts on the three promoted classes.
(Also, better names for some of them might be nice.)
The Hunter -> Harridan path is intended to be support, making enemies vulnerable to a follow up blow from allies.
Attacker -> Raptor is intended to be able to capitalise on wounded enemies.
Hunter/Attacker -> Predator is a middle path, able to support allies and attack enemies equally. I'm wondering what weapon profs a Predator should have, though, so I'd also appreciate your thoughts on that.
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 02, 2016, 07:17:35 am
Post by: Haspen on May 02, 2016, 07:38:38 am
Post by: Swordstar on May 02, 2016, 07:42:17 am
Post by: Solymr on May 02, 2016, 07:45:41 am
Post by: Swordstar on May 02, 2016, 07:49:52 am
Post by: Solymr on May 02, 2016, 08:10:20 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on May 02, 2016, 08:54:11 am
Good point with Open Season. I suppose it could half enemy eva?
I might change Divebomb to a straight 1 hit per HP thing, but it was based on the Samurai ability (but in reverse) and I'm not entirely certain it's necessary.
Post by: Haspen on May 02, 2016, 06:19:52 pm
Code: [Select]
Name Type () RNG MT WT CR Hit QL
Water Watr (E)1-2 5 9 0 75 45
Muddy Watr (E)1-2 5 9 0 70 35 [-2 AS for 5 Turns on hit]
Acid Watr (D)1-2 6 10 0 75 25 [Poison (x2) on hit]
Elwater Watr (D)1-2 9 12 0 70 30
Rust Watr (C)1-2 7 9 0 75 25 [Halves DEF for 1 Turn on hit]
Dampen Watr (C)1-2 9 11 0 80 25 [Halves RES for 1 Turn on hit]
Wetlung Watr (B)1-2 0 13 0 70 20 [MT equal to target's CON]
Goo Watr (B)1-2 8 12 0 75 20 [Halves MOV&Evasion for 5 Turns on hit]
Deluge Watr (A)1-2 13 17 0 70 20
Caustic Watr (A)1-2 11 15 0 75 15 [Poison (x2) on hit]
Arcwater Watr (S)1-2 12 16 0 75 15
Sea's Rage Watr (S)1-2 10 18 0 80 15 [Effective vs Levitation and Armored]
Heavy books, decent hit and damage plus status effects make this sub-cat ;v
And yes, as you can see, no siege magic (but Anima has 3 already so it doesn't need more!)
Post by: Sirus on May 02, 2016, 06:26:10 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on May 02, 2016, 06:42:03 pm
Raptors +hit is now 1 per HP lost
Harridan now basically give Sure Shot to next attack on an enemy they attack.
Based on Solymr's old idea, Water subcategory of Anima:Code: [Select]Name Type () RNG MT WT CR Hit QL
Water Watr (E)1-2 6 8 0 75 45
Muddy Watr (E)1-2 5 8 0 70 35 [-2 AS for 5 Turns on hit]
Acid Watr (D)1-2 6 9 5 75 30 [Poison (x2) on hit]
Elwater Watr (D)1-2 9 11 0 70 30
Rust Watr (C)1-2 7 8 0 75 25 [Halves DEF for 1 Turn on hit]
Dampen Watr (C)1-2 9 10 0 80 25 [Halves RES for 1 Turn on hit]
Wetlung Watr (B)1-2 0 12 0 70 20 [MT equal to target's CON]
Goo Watr (B)1-2 8 11 0 75 20 [Halves MOV&Evasion for 5 Turns on hit]
Deluge Watr (A)1-2 13 15 0 70 20
Caustic Watr (A)1-2 11 13 5 75 20 [Poison (x2) on hit]
Arcwater Watr (S)1-2 12 14 0 75 15
Sea's Rage Watr (S)1-2 10 15 0 80 15 [Effective vs Levitation and Armored]
Heavy books, decent hit and damage plus status effects make this sub-cat ;v
And yes, as you can see, no siege magic (but Anima has 3 already so it doesn't need more!)
Too stronk.
Water is as strong as Elfire, weighs 1 less, and has 15 more uses, though it has 10 less hit.
The C-ranks inflict automatic luna-equivalent not just for the mage but for their allies, as well.
Seems really powerful...especially Wetlung. They aren't really all that heavy but have high-ish MT reasonable Hit. The only real downsides are very low crit and sub-par QL.
They don't even typically have sub-par QL for tomes.
Post by: Haspen on May 02, 2016, 06:44:23 pm
Post by: Solymr on May 07, 2016, 02:41:09 pm
I just finished the last major edits on the fef1pdf so it will be released as a single proper file soon (TM).
NOW, what it's lacking is some gud cover art, so I want to ask whoever is interested if they would want to make a cover for FEF1, ofc with proper credit ;v
If no one wants... coverless it is v:
Post by: Xanmyral on May 07, 2016, 02:51:11 pm
Post by: Solymr on May 07, 2016, 02:57:12 pm
Post by: Solymr on May 08, 2016, 03:27:00 pm
Post by: Haspen on May 08, 2016, 03:27:29 pm
Preemptive Q&A:
Q: Haspoon when its gonna start.
A: After FEF2 ends and before FEF3 gets to the last parts.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on May 08, 2016, 03:28:01 pm
Post by: Twinwolf on May 08, 2016, 03:28:28 pm
Post by: kj1225 on May 08, 2016, 04:02:09 pm
Post by: F.O.E. on May 08, 2016, 08:38:03 pm
Post by: somemildmanneredidiot on May 09, 2016, 03:08:13 am
Post by: Sirus on May 09, 2016, 11:50:09 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on May 09, 2016, 11:56:54 am
Post by: Solymr on May 09, 2016, 12:03:29 pm
Post by: Swordstar on May 09, 2016, 12:13:48 pm
Post by: Powder Miner on May 09, 2016, 03:55:47 pm
Post by: CrimsonEon on May 09, 2016, 04:05:56 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 09, 2016, 05:50:08 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on May 09, 2016, 06:33:21 pm
Post by: Powder Miner on May 09, 2016, 06:35:51 pm
fight irl
Post by: Sirus on May 09, 2016, 10:17:12 pm
Post by: Solymr on May 10, 2016, 03:34:39 am
every time there's a poll here this happens
Post by: Haspen on May 10, 2016, 05:36:21 am
Post by: Solymr on May 10, 2016, 05:59:04 am
FEF1PDF IS HERE 8V
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50939120/fef1pdf/FEF1.pdf
Post by: Swordstar on May 10, 2016, 07:02:02 am
Post by: Twinwolf on May 10, 2016, 07:03:48 am
Stores: Why do all the games make the characters look for each individual store? It just seems a general waste of time, since they're obviously going to check every store, so couldn't they just list each store's stock when "look for stores" or something like that is posted?
Post by: Haspen on May 10, 2016, 07:11:04 am
Dunno about other games though.
Post by: Swordstar on May 10, 2016, 07:34:00 am
But I remember one time when hat had at least ten shops in one city
Post by: Solymr on May 10, 2016, 07:40:35 am
Post by: Swordstar on May 10, 2016, 07:42:05 am
Post by: Culise on May 10, 2016, 07:45:07 am
i swere on me mumMya~n. Plainly we must do an original game with an original setting that will become a surprise midquel when Troy crashes into the scene and hijacks the story.
every time there's a poll here this happens
Actually, the tie's not my fault this time, but even so, mya~n.
Post by: Solymr on May 10, 2016, 07:48:06 am
Post by: Solymr on May 11, 2016, 02:42:59 pm
Also why doesn't the FEF1OOC have this gem in fanart section:
(http://i.imgur.com/q8qrCoF.png)
Post by: Swordstar on May 11, 2016, 02:55:56 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 11, 2016, 03:35:06 pm
Post by: Swordstar on May 11, 2016, 03:50:06 pm
Post by: Solymr on May 11, 2016, 03:55:53 pm
Mebbe I should redo poll without letting people see results v:
Post by: Xanmyral on May 11, 2016, 04:54:00 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 11, 2016, 04:59:34 pm
Post by: Swordstar on May 11, 2016, 05:04:30 pm
Post by: Sirus on May 11, 2016, 07:27:33 pm
Post by: somemildmanneredidiot on May 11, 2016, 08:40:16 pm
Mya~n. Plainly we must do an original game with an original setting that will become a surprise midquel when Troy crashes into the scene and hijacks the story.
Actually, the tie's not my fault this time, but even so, mya~n.
+1 for this being an option in the new poll. As in this is not a troll suggestion, I think trying to make a mix of the two would interesting at the very least.
Post by: birdy51 on May 11, 2016, 09:09:59 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 11, 2016, 09:15:36 pm
Post by: Swordstar on May 11, 2016, 09:17:24 pm
Post by: somemildmanneredidiot on May 11, 2016, 09:50:57 pm
Yeah, it wouldn't really work at all since Hasp pretty strongly keeps to canon to the point of not even allowing classes that don't exist in future part of timeline to exist in previous part of timeline so no way would he let all the new skills and such in. Plus, what BMM said. :P
Both points make sense.
Post by: Haspen on May 12, 2016, 03:55:06 am
Yeah, it wouldn't really work at all since Hasp pretty strongly keeps to canon to the point of not even allowing classes that don't exist in future part of timeline to exist in previous part of timeline so no way would he let all the new skills and such in. Plus, what BMM said. :P
No retrofit is bestfit '<.
Then again pilums weren't in FEF1 but are in FEF2 because what was that handwave oh right: they were developed early during FEF2 Empire times, so that's an exception :P
Post by: Haspen on May 17, 2016, 01:05:32 pm
Quote
(20:05:26) Hatkitty: http://pastebin.com/1Vx6rFee FEF6 proto-lore
(20:05:37) Hatkitty: enjoy the bloodshed and carnage therein .<'
Post by: Sirus on May 17, 2016, 01:20:08 pm
Post by: Haspen on May 17, 2016, 01:24:23 pm
And the poll is still neck-and-neck. People must be doing this on purpose, somehow.
Yeh irc peoples decided to tie it up so I say fok the poll. I'm going with 1.3 handbook new-world. If someone actually wanted a midquel, they can go cry nao :V
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 17, 2016, 01:28:22 pm
Post by: Solymr on May 17, 2016, 01:31:22 pm
Post by: kj1225 on May 17, 2016, 01:31:37 pm
Post by: Culise on May 17, 2016, 01:32:58 pm
Yeh irc peoples decided to tie it up so I say fok the poll.Ah, seriously? I thought I was the only one who said that, and only as a joke.
Post by: Sirus on May 17, 2016, 02:13:00 pm
Imma make a swashbuckler, it'll be fun :3
Post by: Twinwolf on May 17, 2016, 02:43:49 pm
Maybe I'll make a male character for once :P
Maybe a Dancer since I've tried to play that a couple times and that never happened. Or one of the non-handbook classes.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on May 17, 2016, 02:51:11 pm
Post by: kj1225 on May 17, 2016, 04:03:11 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 17, 2016, 11:07:13 pm
Post by: Swordstar on May 17, 2016, 11:18:08 pm
Also considering a couple of options, will depend on changes Hasp makes to 1.3 but probs a horse mounted character of some type will be my submission
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 17, 2016, 11:23:28 pm
or whatever precedes sentinel
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on May 17, 2016, 11:40:24 pm
Post by: F.O.E. on May 18, 2016, 02:00:47 am
Quote
<Formido> FREEEEEEEDOM
Post by: Sirus on May 18, 2016, 04:12:48 am
Soldier precedes Sentinel, yeah. Though if you've already done one Sentinel I'm not sure why you'd do another. They aren't the most amazing class in the world to pick. Says the guy who finds most of the classes weirdly generic.Hey now, Sentinels are kick-ass.
Post by: Haspen on May 18, 2016, 04:14:46 am
New setting with 1.3? Wooooooo! \o/
Imma make a swashbuckler, it'll be fun :3
/me pre-emptively pats Sirus ;v
The map will be surely landlocked, so pirate class + promos won't be available or useful.
Post by: Sirus on May 18, 2016, 04:17:34 am
Guess I'll find something else to use. Like a mage, mebbe. Everyone likes mages.
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 18, 2016, 05:44:23 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on May 18, 2016, 06:07:36 am
New setting with 1.3? Wooooooo! \o/
Imma make a swashbuckler, it'll be fun :3
/me pre-emptively pats Sirus ;v
The map will be surely landlocked, so pirate class + promos won't be available or useful.
There will be alchemists, right?
Post by: Haspen on May 18, 2016, 06:51:17 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on May 18, 2016, 06:59:29 am
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on May 18, 2016, 08:28:10 am
Hey now, Sentinels are kick-ass.
Are they? They look alright to me, but I'm not sure if I'd call them kick-ass. It's been a while since I looked at things though, so I might be misremembering things. Maybe.
Post by: Swordstar on May 18, 2016, 10:49:29 am
Post by: Sirus on May 18, 2016, 10:52:33 am
They're solid front-line fighters that give substantial passive DEF boosts to surrounding allies, gains a smaller boost of their own, and has a weaker form of Guard for ALL adjacent allies. They might not be able to dish out quite as much damage as a berserker or tank quite as well as a knight, but they have no real weaknesses and make everyone around them better.Hey now, Sentinels are kick-ass.
Are they? They look alright to me, but I'm not sure if I'd call them kick-ass. It's been a while since I looked at things though, so I might be misremembering things. Maybe.
Yeah, but no camel riders tho v;Boooo to alchemists, keep camel riders :X
Post by: Haspen on May 18, 2016, 10:56:02 am
Post by: Sirus on May 18, 2016, 10:57:01 am
Post by: Haspen on May 18, 2016, 11:02:22 am
/me goes furiously scribble non-desert map.
Post by: Swordstar on May 18, 2016, 11:49:34 am
Post by: Haspen on May 18, 2016, 11:58:06 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Map! :V
Glorious FEF6 map! V:
Post by: Xanmyral on May 22, 2016, 12:59:13 am
The way I see it, people have largely ruled these two ways.
1) Some activated abilities use your action, some do not on a case-by-case basis.
2) All activated abilities use your action.
If we go with the first, we should state after "Activated Effect" whether or not it uses an action. Arguably, looking at some effects from FEF 1.3, this seems to be the direction the pdf's creator was going, but ultimately it depends on how we want it. By listing whether or not an action is used for the activated effect, it also helps avoid confusion with some abilities.
If we go with the second, we need to see if any abilities need to change to make them more worthwhile with added terminology such as "on attack" or so forth. Otherwise, some abilities would be mostly worthless. This would be a largely consistent change and would make it easily understood that Activated == Uses action instead of some using an action and some not.
Post by: Solymr on May 22, 2016, 04:35:30 am
Example is Reliable Attack. Some GMs allow it to be called and attack with its bonuses at the same time, others just allow it to call it and benefit from its effects in the enemy phase.
Then there are defensive skills that only work in enemy phase. Some are clearer on their action usage (LotW, Hold the Line) but others not so much (Guard and to some extent Pious Veil).
So we could make all offensive skills able to use with an attack, and check defensive skills to see if they should use an action or not.
Post by: Swordstar on May 22, 2016, 09:46:41 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on May 22, 2016, 10:20:03 am
With Guard at least, going over and reading it again, it honestly seems like it's something that you would do every time they're targeted. So if, say, Senija was attacked by three mages and a sword dude. Tomik could be like "I take all magic attacks but let her take the sword attack." Now, this is clearly not great since it requires a GM to constantly be pestering "Hey, these guys are all going to attack your target on the EP" but it very much seems to be something that is technically activated on the EP not the PPThat would sound to me overly fussy and overly specific.
In my mind it would be ideal to make it an activated skill that takes a turn; the players uses their turn to guard someone else. It nerfs it a bit, but it's already very good and as it is (can guard and attack) it has absolutely no downside to always use.
Post by: Swordstar on May 22, 2016, 10:28:05 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on May 29, 2016, 03:27:17 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: kj1225 on May 29, 2016, 03:33:40 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 29, 2016, 06:43:33 pm
Post by: Sirus on June 07, 2016, 08:47:05 pm
Quote
18:45 Sirus So folks, general announcement: I'm going back to full-time trucking starting tomorrow, which means I will probably be posting less. My schedule is pretty vague in terms of when I'll be free and so on.
18:45 GUNINANRUNIN yeah the zulu had dried leather shields
18:45 Sirus probably oughta put that in the hub as well
Post by: Haspen on June 08, 2016, 05:57:17 am
Truck well, Sirus o/
Post by: Parsely on June 17, 2016, 01:56:03 am
I like GUNI's random comment in there :PWell they did. :V
Also the handbook v1.2 link is broken.
Post by: Solymr on June 17, 2016, 03:49:06 am
Post by: MageShooter on June 17, 2016, 04:07:04 pm
(Sorry if this question has already been asked - I hope I didn't miss the answer already. Also sorry if this isn't be the right thread to ask - I'm new and all.)
Post by: Haspen on June 17, 2016, 04:08:20 pm
If you're determined though, even MSPaint is enough.
Post by: darkpaladin109 on June 17, 2016, 04:10:40 pm
Post by: MageShooter on June 17, 2016, 04:16:28 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on June 17, 2016, 05:32:49 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 17, 2016, 05:52:57 pm
I use Mappy, others presumably Tiled.
If you're determined though, even MSPaint is enough.
I use tiled, and for a while I also used paint. I would not recommend the latter.
Post by: Khaiel on June 19, 2016, 05:42:11 pm
Also, just read RWBY and Dark Souls on the same sentence: You should check Anima: Gate of Memories (Available on Steam, PS4 and XBox One. I swear to god, I don't get money for writing this :P). It's also in the same setting as KotE.
Post by: Haspen on June 20, 2016, 02:16:13 am
Post by: Chevaleresse on June 21, 2016, 09:02:17 pm
Post by: Pyon on July 05, 2016, 09:09:46 am
Nice to meet you all.
Post by: Swordstar on July 05, 2016, 09:11:17 am
Post by: Twinwolf on July 05, 2016, 09:11:33 am
Post by: Swordstar on July 05, 2016, 09:46:18 am
Post by: Twinwolf on July 05, 2016, 09:47:22 am
Post by: Swordstar on July 05, 2016, 09:51:34 am
/me is shot
Post by: Pyon on July 05, 2016, 10:05:38 am
Post by: Haspen on July 05, 2016, 11:06:47 am
From now on all KO's that happen before start of new turn are 3/3, when a new turn happens, these counters become 2/3 without a turn-long delay.
Keep ya healers nearby, folks.
EDIT: Also formal 'hello' to Pyon.
Post by: CrimsonEon on July 05, 2016, 11:11:21 am
Post by: Haspen on July 05, 2016, 11:15:54 am
/me hurts himself in confusion.
Post by: Akroma on July 05, 2016, 11:21:54 am
anyone knows if a new one is about to be made soonish?
Post by: Swordstar on July 05, 2016, 11:24:22 am
Post by: Twinwolf on July 05, 2016, 11:32:16 am
Post by: Akroma on July 05, 2016, 11:36:39 am
Post by: Twinwolf on July 05, 2016, 11:41:13 am
Post by: Akroma on July 05, 2016, 11:46:46 am
Post by: Twinwolf on July 05, 2016, 11:52:23 am
Post by: Haspen on July 05, 2016, 11:52:50 am
/me shakes fist at ninja.
Post by: Akroma on July 05, 2016, 11:55:16 am
Post by: Twinwolf on July 05, 2016, 12:02:53 pm
But yeah, if you ask for one someone will usually make one.
Post by: Sirus on July 05, 2016, 10:38:51 pm
Otherwise, requesting help is always an option as previously stated.
Post by: Akroma on July 07, 2016, 10:43:07 am
edit: already found something useable. At this point I just need a recolor and a transparency layer, but my complete lack of anything but MSPaint leaves this out of reach for me
Post by: Haspen on July 07, 2016, 11:42:28 am
And Recoloring is even simpler; clothes and hair and eyes usually use no more than 3 or 4 shades of the same color (and some scarfs/capes have as little as 2) and only skin tones might go into 5 or 6 shades at most.
Post by: Akroma on July 07, 2016, 12:01:54 pm
thankfully Criptfeind seems to be doing that for me right now...maybe...he asked me on IRC about the mug and has since then sadly timed out :P
Post by: Twinwolf on July 07, 2016, 12:03:08 pm
Post by: Akroma on July 07, 2016, 12:23:59 pm
Post by: Swordstar on July 07, 2016, 12:28:40 pm
Post by: Twinwolf on July 07, 2016, 12:33:11 pm
Post by: Haspen on July 07, 2016, 12:38:15 pm
thankfully Criptfeind seems to be doing that for me right now...maybe...he asked me on IRC about the mug and has since then sadly timed out :P
You have IRC capabilities!? :V
y u not at #feftalk on irc.darkmyst.org then?? Come join all the addicts! C:
Post by: Akroma on July 07, 2016, 12:39:27 pm
you know, addictions
Post by: Swordstar on July 07, 2016, 12:41:12 pm
Post by: Twinwolf on July 07, 2016, 12:45:45 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on July 07, 2016, 12:47:11 pm
well, I guess I will take you guys up on that then, and ask if there is anyone out there who'd help me assemble a mug?I use GIMP, which is completely free.
edit: already found something useable. At this point I just need a recolor and a transparency layer, but my complete lack of anything but MSPaint leaves this out of reach for me
Post by: Mopsy on July 07, 2016, 03:14:41 pm
Post by: Sirus on July 09, 2016, 03:21:28 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 09, 2016, 06:30:57 pm
As always, I recommend ASEPRITE for mugging and spritework. It's basically what the program was designed for.
I only really use it to do transparencies, but it does work nicely.
Post by: F.O.E. on July 09, 2016, 06:32:55 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on July 09, 2016, 06:38:48 pm
good ole MSPaint, baby
This + GIMP for transparency.
Post by: Swordstar on July 09, 2016, 06:41:11 pm
Post by: Parsely on July 09, 2016, 07:00:05 pm
As always, I recommend ASEPRITE for mugging and spritework. It's basically what the program was designed for.This. I use ASEPRITE for everything.
Post by: Furtuka on July 09, 2016, 11:15:11 pm
Post by: Haspen on July 11, 2016, 03:51:08 pm
Rescuing does not halve Rescuer's SKL and SPD, but lowers it by Rescuee's CON instead.
Discuss V:
Post by: GiglameshDespair on July 11, 2016, 03:52:30 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on July 11, 2016, 03:55:01 pm
Current system is more fair I think. Particularly because it makes Savior more worthwhile to take. :P
Post by: Swordstar on July 11, 2016, 03:55:33 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 11, 2016, 04:04:46 pm
Post by: Sirus on July 11, 2016, 07:36:55 pm
Post by: F.O.E. on July 11, 2016, 07:49:59 pm
Seems like an unnecessary change to me as well.
Post by: Parsely on July 14, 2016, 03:42:10 pm
Here's what it looks like as of right now:
Spoiler: Home (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Rules (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Battle Calculator (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Mugs (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Games List (click to show/hide)
The purpose of the website is to be a repository of information on everything related to FEF, as well as a tool to attract and retain new players. Specifically I want this website to be able to inform someone who has no experience with roleplaying of any form and give that kind of person all the information they need to be prepared to play FEF! The battle calculator is by far the biggest part of this project and, when complete, will help people who want to break into GMing FEF.
Obviously it is very incomplete, and I need your guys' help in order to make it as informative as possible.
Current Goals
Rules
- Add explanations about the concept of roleplaying, the role of the GM, the GM-player relationship, and a short "Getting Started" tutorial on where to begin with playing the game.
- Perhaps have a summarized version of what's in the handbook as a primer for new players.
- Make it not broken. I'm using JavaScript for all the calculating of inputs and it's not very easy. Progress is slow.
- Add tutorial about spriting.
- Add an in-depth tutorial about making mugs from scratch.
- Links to spriting resources.
- More examples of mugs
All of the current background images are placeholders since most of them are copyrighted. Thus I'm in need of relevant 1920x1080 background images that I can use for the website.
I'm also highly open to suggestions and contributions (especially contributions), so if you have any and you want me to definitely see them (since might not catch them if you post them here):
- PM me on the forums.
- PM or ping me on IRC.
- Send me an email (using the email button below my username).
I want to involve everyone in the community in this process so please don't hesitate to tell me what you think. Thank you.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on July 14, 2016, 03:59:44 pm
Post by: Parsely on July 14, 2016, 04:09:24 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 14, 2016, 05:29:05 pm
Quote
Sighted In: If the unit with this skill attacks a unit they attacked the previous round, +15 hit and +1 DAM
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on July 14, 2016, 09:37:33 pm
In other words, it's perfectly valid. :V
Post by: SOLDIER First on July 14, 2016, 09:38:00 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on July 14, 2016, 09:42:13 pm
Post by: Swordstar on July 14, 2016, 09:46:32 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on July 14, 2016, 09:51:15 pm
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on July 14, 2016, 09:53:04 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on July 14, 2016, 09:55:21 pm
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on July 14, 2016, 09:56:52 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on July 14, 2016, 10:01:25 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 14, 2016, 10:06:08 pm
Post by: Xanmyral on July 14, 2016, 10:06:43 pm
?I'm afraid it's time to put the shaker down, friend. (http://i.imgur.com/8XFzN48.jpg)
(http://www.norcalepiscopal.org/Websites/newnorcalepiscopal/images/Resource%20Centers/AdminandFinance/Wellness/salt.jpg)
Post by: SOLDIER First on July 14, 2016, 10:08:38 pm
Post by: Culise on July 14, 2016, 11:10:15 pm
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on July 14, 2016, 11:13:46 pm
Do make sure to come up with a trainee sheet, as I also will be rolling the trainee levels before rolling the first class levels! (Also don't forget to include the +5% growth promotion below! Check the sheets in the OOC thread if you want an example.)
OOC thread is here: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136449.3100
Post by: Parsely on July 15, 2016, 12:38:50 am
Original sprite:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
What happens if it's on a black background? The outline disappears. You may as well have not outlined it at all. But, again, this is a problem that will simply never happen on B12 because the backgrounds are not pure black.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Change the black for a VERY dark purple that is almost black (and I also changed the purples on the collar for the perfectly good purples in the eyes). It's not much better since the purple is still very close to black but
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's a good reason, but that's not the real reason. The dark purple from FE7 (rgb 88, 64, 96) isn't just an outline, it's also used for shadows. Never use black for shadows, because (most) shadows in real life aren't black. So the real reason is: using black is a waste of a color when you could be reusing one of the darker colors from your sprite. I'm not saying this as a rule, I'm just trying to rationalize the choice in the context of FE7's art and stuff.
E: Really though, black for outlines is fine, as long as you're okay with it looking a little more "drawn", as in cartoons/manga/comic books.
Post by: Sirus on July 15, 2016, 09:59:21 pm
So you may all not be aware, but I've been working on a FEF website for the past week and a half.I know the conversation has moved on somewhat, but damn this is cool.
Here's what it looks like as of right now:Spoiler: Home (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Rules (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Battle Calculator (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Mugs (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Games List (click to show/hide)
The purpose of the website is to be a repository of information on everything related to FEF, as well as a tool to attract and retain new players. Specifically I want this website to be able to inform someone who has no experience with roleplaying of any form and give that kind of person all the information they need to be prepared to play FEF! The battle calculator is by far the biggest part of this project and, when complete, will help people who want to break into GMing FEF.
Obviously it is very incomplete, and I need your guys' help in order to make it as informative as possible.
Current Goals
RulesCalculator
- Add explanations about the concept of roleplaying, the role of the GM, the GM-player relationship, and a short "Getting Started" tutorial on where to begin with playing the game.
- Perhaps have a summarized version of what's in the handbook as a primer for new players.
Mugs
- Make it not broken. I'm using JavaScript for all the calculating of inputs and it's not very easy. Progress is slow.
- Add tutorial about spriting.
- Add an in-depth tutorial about making mugs from scratch.
- Links to spriting resources.
- More examples of mugs
All of the current background images are placeholders since most of them are copyrighted. Thus I'm in need of relevant 1920x1080 background images that I can use for the website.
I'm also highly open to suggestions and contributions (especially contributions), so if you have any and you want me to definitely see them (since might not catch them if you post them here):
- PM me on the forums.
- PM or ping me on IRC.
- Send me an email (using the email button below my username).
I want to involve everyone in the community in this process so please don't hesitate to tell me what you think. Thank you.
Post by: Parsely on July 15, 2016, 11:07:19 pm
I know the conversation has moved on somewhat, but damn this is cool.Thank you so much just for acknowledging it. I was seriously afraid that no one gave a crap. ;-;
Post by: Sirus on July 15, 2016, 11:10:01 pm
If I may make a suggestion though? In the battle calculator, put the weapon stats to the side of the character stats to save some scrolling.I know the conversation has moved on somewhat, but damn this is cool.Thank you so much just for acknowledging it. I was seriously afraid that no one gave a crap. ;-;
Post by: Parsely on July 16, 2016, 12:00:50 am
Done.If I may make a suggestion though? In the battle calculator, put the weapon stats to the side of the character stats to save some scrolling.I know the conversation has moved on somewhat, but damn this is cool.Thank you so much just for acknowledging it. I was seriously afraid that no one gave a crap. ;-;
Spoiler: Combat Calculator (click to show/hide)
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on July 16, 2016, 12:50:12 am
Post by: Parsely on July 16, 2016, 01:58:13 am
Looks like the kind of stuff that might save me a lot of time. My suggestion is adding an option to save previous stats you insert there, so you won't need to add it all again.That's the plan! When it's complete you shouldn't have to touch the input fields at all. I want for the end user to be able to:
- Upload a text file and have the page retrieve the stat values and put them in automatically.
- See Derived Stats input field values change in real-time as you tweak stats.
- Punch in stats for a weapon or a character sheet and be able to export a text file.
BMM42 shared some design documents with me that I'm going to be working off of so it's thanks to him that I've already got some cool plans in store for the calculator.
BMM42's wishlist: http://pastebin.com/ihmSu7WH
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on July 27, 2016, 11:29:00 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Sirus on July 27, 2016, 08:26:48 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 27, 2016, 08:50:44 pm
I see no reason to give druidic magic multiple killer weapons. Make one, which trumps other killer weapons or something else not covered by an existing druidic tome, and call it a day.
Yoooooooo.
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on July 27, 2016, 08:57:07 pm
Post by: Sirus on July 27, 2016, 10:01:54 pm
Not sure if good yo or bad yo.I see no reason to give druidic magic multiple killer weapons. Make one, which trumps other killer weapons or something else not covered by an existing druidic tome, and call it a day.
Yoooooooo.
Post by: Swordstar on July 27, 2016, 10:32:04 pm
Honestly, I don't really see the point of adding *more* crit weapons since each weapon type has some crit weapons and typically giving your PCs more crit is not something a GM wants to do. :P
Also like... these seem pretty OP?
Spoiler: Comparisons (click to show/hide)
In general, I think you're discounting how much things are worth? In general, a good rule of thumb to have is -/+1 wt=+/-1 mt=+/-5 hit=+/-5 crit buuuut that crit is really powerful. If you look at all the other killer weapons, they're typically either all around worse than the other similar rank weapon or they're about the same but the other weapon has some effect like reversing weapon triangle or effective damage. The only one I'd see as different is the recurve subcat but poison bow sucks so eh.
A good example actually is Killer Crossbow vs Silver Crossbow. They have the same MT, but the Killer Crossbow has +2 wt, -20 hit, and +30 crit. So it follows the stuff I said above.
In general, I don't think the weapon ideas are terrible. I just think they're unbalanced and also that giving more crit to PCs is a bad idea :P
Edit: I don't know exactly how QL use translates into stuff, but prolly similar +/-5 QL for the above stuff? That one is a bit harder to translate.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 27, 2016, 10:38:02 pm
Not sure if good yo or bad yo.I see no reason to give druidic magic multiple killer weapons. Make one, which trumps other killer weapons or something else not covered by an existing druidic tome, and call it a day.
Yoooooooo.
I think its a neat idea.
Edit: I haven't poured over the weapon stats myself, but if you're just slapping extra crit on weapons comparable to what's available, that's going to be REALLY powerful.
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on July 27, 2016, 11:36:22 pm
So yes, it might need some balance on wt/mt yet and that's why I posted here. So I can at least try to put some balance on stuff like mt, wt and hit rate to make sure it won't be OP but also won't be underpowered. If you think more killer weapons aren't needed, that's ok people have different opinions.
Edit: And after checking the handbook I can see there isn't that much of a difference when it is about hit rate between killer and non-killer weapons of the same category. So besides decreasing mt and increasing wt of some, I probably will just need to decrease 5 hit of some I didn't before.
Double Edit: List is fixed, increased the WT of most of weapons, decreased MT of some, -5 Hit to the ones that were side-to-side with C rank weapons.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Swordstar on July 28, 2016, 07:47:33 am
Also I think you derped your second pilum Mt and wt maybe?
As for my comments, I think it's not overly necessary because each weapon type, not subcat, has some sort if killer weapon. Crit is stupid powerful. Trying to add more of an already powerful type is risky as shown by the fact that you're making essentially more powerful versions of the weapons that exist. I still think just comparing the two lists that some of these are stronger than they should be but would need to check the handbook to really be sure.
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on July 28, 2016, 08:58:21 am
Post by: Swordstar on July 28, 2016, 09:51:11 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on July 28, 2016, 10:02:35 am
Subcats should provide more variation. If a subcat is too weak, emphasise the subcat's strengths, not just adding crit.
Post by: CrimsonEon on July 29, 2016, 09:50:44 am
Quote from: IRC
‹CrickEt› maybe there should be overkill penalty, like, people's HP goes negative when being downedIt would definitely hurt to be crit under this kind of system, but a good healer could still bring up a player in a reasonable amount of time. Vulns won't be as effective when healing people who really took a beating, but can still handle people downed by being grazed pretty effectively. It'd also ensure that people with Wrath, Resolve or other <% HP skills have to play more conservatively.
‹CrickEt› healing while downed will heal full amount so long as there is negative HP to heal, but bringing people positive again cuts healing by half?
‹swordstar› So if you're -8, healing with a vuln leaves at 1
‹CrickEt› yeah, like that
Any thoughts on this? I get the feeling I'm missing some factor in this that unreasonably increases the difficulty.
Post by: Swordstar on July 29, 2016, 10:01:12 am
Post by: CrimsonEon on July 29, 2016, 10:03:15 am
Post by: Swordstar on July 29, 2016, 10:04:10 am
Post by: CrimsonEon on July 29, 2016, 10:05:13 am
FAKEDIT: Or a hard cap of negative-whatever-their-max-HP-is.
DOUBLEPOSTEDIT: BMM42 pointed out that a Max HP cap punishes characters with high HP, perhaps a flat cap then at like -50, or maybe scaling with level somehow instead of HP.
Post by: Xanmyral on July 29, 2016, 04:57:36 pm
Max negative health is -60 + whatever your MHP is. So people who have a lot of health can only get knocked into the negatives by so much, and if someone somehow caps HP (I think only one has done this so far?) then it just works on the old system since you can't be brought to negative health.
Personally, though, I find that a bit much on upkeep (even coming from me) so no matter what people pick I'll probably just stick with my house rule unless it winds up being something great.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on July 29, 2016, 05:11:14 pm
Lucky arrow: +30 hit, once a map
Post by: darkpaladin109 on July 29, 2016, 05:42:48 pm
As requested:I assume that's supposed to be for archers? I think it'd be a good secondary ability for archers.
Lucky arrow: +30 hit, once a map
Post by: GiglameshDespair on July 29, 2016, 05:44:01 pm
Yeah.As requested:I assume that's supposed to be for archers? I think it'd be a good secondary ability for archers.
Lucky arrow: +30 hit, once a map
We were talking about it on IRC and BMM42 is compiling a list of suggestions to put in a poll, so he asked me to post it in here.
Post by: Criptfeind on July 29, 2016, 05:52:09 pm
Scoped in/steady aim/what ever: If you don't use any of your mov this turn, +hit +damage. (Not sure how much +hit and damage. Some people seem to think this would be a rarely used skilled, so maybe something relatively good like +15 +2 or something?) the idea behind it is that archers seem to suffer from not being nomads, so this rewards them for acting the opposite that a nomad does. Also it scales with longbows and snipering, which I think is sorta cool but also possibly problematic since it gives relatively less for those that want to go a different path. Hum... Well, I suppose a skill favoring one play style or another isn't too terrible.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 29, 2016, 08:28:57 pm
All the skills presented here are subject to tweaking once implemented
Called Shot: instead of attacking, the Archer can choose to take an overwatch stance, automatically attacking the first enemy to get in range the next enemy phase. Works with ballistas.
* Reaction Shot (active skill): Activate this skill instead of making an attack this round. During the next Enemy Phase, any time an enemy moves into any panel within your attack range, make an attack against him with -15 to hit. You may not target any target more than once per turn with this skill, and you may not double-attack regardless of your relative Attack Skill.
* Nothin' to do but Dodge (passive skill): When attacked by an enemy who is not inside your counterattack range, you gain +20 to Evasion.
* Point-Blank Shot (passive skill): You may use bows at a range of 1, but with a penalty of 1 Damage and 15 Accuracy.
* Sniper's Nest (passive skill): Double the defensive benefits of terrain you are standing on.
* Prognostication (passive skill): You keep your eyes on the horizon, and when someone charges you, you have time to anticipate. If an enemy moves three spaces or more to attack you, you gain +20 Evasion against them for that round.
* Premeditation (active skill): You may activate this skill once per battle. Reduce your MAG to 0, and receive an increase to SPD equal to half the MAG lost. On every subsequent turn, your MAG increases by 1 up to its normal amount, and your SPD decreases by 1 down to its normal amount.
Arc shot: On their turn, an archer may choose to extend their range by 1 tile in exchange for -20 to hit on the attack.
Careful Shot: Some form of exchanging damage for extra hit
Flush Shot: After attacking an enemy on defensive terrain, the target loses terrain bonuses until they complete one combat.
Sighted in: If the unit with this skill attacks a unit they attacked the previous round, +15 hit and +1 DAM
Lucky arrow: Once per map, an archer may add +30 to hit for one attack
Steady Aim: If the archer uses no move this turn, +? hit and +? Damage
I think this is all of them.
Post by: birdy51 on July 29, 2016, 09:26:25 pm
Post by: Swordstar on July 29, 2016, 09:40:43 pm
Post by: Twinwolf on July 29, 2016, 09:46:07 pm
I think "Premediation" is probably the one with the most precedent in the rulebook, with the "Dump one stat into another stat" thing, if a bit weaker than those due to the rate of conversion, and gives a use for a MAG growth beyond magic weapons and promotion to Battle Mage.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 29, 2016, 10:08:29 pm
Post by: birdy51 on July 29, 2016, 11:06:53 pm
Post by: Parsely on August 01, 2016, 01:43:16 am
The calculator can take stats you put in and generate your battle inventory stats (I call them 'Derived Stats') like Base Attack, Attack Skill, and so on, then take those and make them fight! It can already determine if there is a miss, crit, or hit, and in the latter two cases it tells you how much damage the attacker dealt and what the defender's HP is. Once I get doubles to work I can work on stuff like telling the calculator when a character is dead and basically all the things to keep the calculator from letting you do this or that infinitely until a variable is 1.21e+45.
Yay progress!
Edit: Here's a .gif of the broken calculator running battles!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
If you want to actually read the numbers (sorry the .gif quality is so shit) you can watch this unlisted YouTube video I uploaded of me clicking the Battle button (around the middle of the video I just hold down 'enter' and let it iterate as fast as it can). (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqrSqwHuJQU)
Post by: somemildmanneredidiot on August 01, 2016, 03:47:59 am
Spoiler: this (click to show/hide)
Post by: Parsely on August 01, 2016, 11:02:31 am
Code: [Select]
function outputStats() {
if (traineeClass1 == "00" && firstClass1 == "00" && promotedClass1 == "00" && traineeClass2 == "00" && firstClass2 == "00" && promotedClass2 == "00") { // check if the class dropdowns haven't been selected
alert('Please pick a class.');
} else {
if (Math.floor((Math.random() * 100) + 1) <= hit1 - evasion2) { // is random number between 1-100 less than or equal to hit minus evasion?
if (Math.floor((Math.random() * 100) + 1) <= critical1 - dodge2) {
attack1 = (attack1 - defense2) * 3;
currentHealth2 = currentHealth2 - attack1;
document.getElementById('results').innerHTML = "Character 1 performed a <font color=red>critical</font> hit! <br>" + "Dealt " + attack1 + " damage! <br>" + "Character 2 is at " + currentHealth2 + " health!";
} else {
attack1 = attack1 - defense2;
currentHealth2 = currentHealth2 - attack1;
document.getElementById('results').innerHTML = "Character 1 hit! <br>" + "Dealt " + attack1 + " damage! <br>" + "Character 2 is at " + currentHealth2 + " health!";
}
} else if ((attackSkill1 - 4) >= attackSkill2) {
document.getElementById('results').innerHTML = "Character 1 missed!";
if (Math.floor((Math.random() * 100) + 1) <= hit2 - evasion1) {
if (Math.floor((Math.random() * 100) + 1) <= critical2 - dodge1) {
attack1 = (attack2 - defense1) * 3;
currentHealth1 = attack2 - currentHealth1;
document.getElementById('results').innerHTML = "Character 1 is at " + currentHealth1.innerHTML;
} else {
attack2 = attack2 - defense1;
currentHealth1 = attack2 - currentHealth1;
document.getElementById('results').innerHTML = "Character 1 is at " + currentHealth1.innerHTML;
}
}
} else {
document.getElementById('results').innerHTML = "Character A missed!";
}
}
}The problem is getting HTML to add that new attack message onto the old one rather than overwriting it, since when you assign innerHTML it overwrites whatever you displayed previously. But I have some ideas already! I can just add another div tag and have the extra attack iterate to that. But I would rather just reuse the one div.
Fakeedit: Maybe I can write the first attack message to a variable and then use that in the second attack.
Post by: Culise on August 01, 2016, 11:18:51 am
Post by: Parsely on August 01, 2016, 01:33:40 pm
Have you tried the append (http://www.w3schools.com/jquery/html_append.asp) method? I'm not an expert by any measure, but that method is typically how I would tack text on to the end of an element.I haven't been using any libraries but that does look like a method that would work here, so maybe now is the time to download one.
Post by: Culise on August 01, 2016, 02:03:32 pm
It shouldn't be a library; it's just basic JQuery. Hmmm, my apologies; you mentioned earlier that you're using JavaScript. I tend to forget, but if append isn't implemented there, you could do a string concatenation (http://www.w3schools.com/jsref/jsref_concat_string.asp) as well - pull out the present content as a string with the InnerHTML method, append what you want to enter with the concat method, and drop it back in using the InnerHTML method again. It feels a touch inelegant to me, but it should work for a string.Have you tried the append (http://www.w3schools.com/jquery/html_append.asp) method? I'm not an expert by any measure, but that method is typically how I would tack text on to the end of an element.I haven't been using any libraries but that does look like a method that would work here, so maybe now is the time to download one.
Post by: Parsely on August 01, 2016, 11:18:38 pm
Post by: Haspen on August 02, 2016, 05:10:50 pm
Spoiler: GUNS: Expanded edition! (gun-using classes TBD) (click to show/hide)
Post by: Sirus on August 02, 2016, 05:17:25 pm
Post by: Haspen on August 02, 2016, 05:20:44 pm
Those are both terrible specials which only serve as punishment for choosing these classes :l
These are for balancings? Guns are better bows after all v:
EDIT: If you mean 'beneficial specials' then dun worry, Class Skills will be a thing for all gun first and promo classes :V
Post by: Sirus on August 02, 2016, 06:17:42 pm
Also, the auto-hit adjacent rule for the cannons is crap. If they made an additional attack roll against a nearby target it'd be different, but auto-damaging plus splash damage is just dumb as all get out.
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on August 02, 2016, 06:47:00 pm
Post by: Swordstar on August 02, 2016, 07:27:48 pm
Autohaving 1-2 range is pretty strong, as shown by mages being real powerful. Mages are of course buffed more by hitting res which tends to be lower but either way, I'm still not really sure this is needed? I dunno. Every weapon type has some 1-2 range subcat, except swords, so they aren't really filling a niche that doesn't exist? And you're once again focusing really heavily on crit, which is way powerful especially with the ability to add luck straight to their crit. That could straight up be +30 crit, plus another 5 or 10 from promoted skill, plus almost certainly another +10 from a PS, assume they have another +10 or 20 from supports, +15 from skill, that could be up to 85 crit before anything like wrath or weapon crit comes into play. That's *crazy* At the very least halve luck before adding, but irregardless, even if it's only twice, that's still a really powerful class skill and it's the first class skill.
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on August 02, 2016, 07:33:07 pm
Post by: Swordstar on August 02, 2016, 07:44:51 pm
Though I might suggest naming them like ninjas and changing the name to shurikan or something if you really want it because yo-yos is not something most people are going to be able to take at all seriously
Post by: GiglameshDespair on August 02, 2016, 07:45:45 pm
(http://spindlemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/a55a789a-402x570.jpg)
Every weapon type has some 1-2 range subcat, except swords, so they aren't really filling a niche that doesn't exist?Swords do have daggers, I guess, for 1-2 range.
But yeah, it's a niche that's already filled, really. I can't imagine it's terribly balanced compared to other physical weapons.
They tend to have crit subcat, 1-2 ranged subcat, effect subcat. Yo-yos are all 1-2 ranged.
All the other physical weapons have ranged subcats, dark magic has subcat dedicated to debuffing. I don't really see the need to add another type of weapon that seems kinda unbalanced from the start and doesn't do much new.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on August 02, 2016, 07:52:33 pm
Post by: Swordstar on August 02, 2016, 07:59:02 pm
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on August 02, 2016, 08:09:44 pm
Post by: Parsely on August 02, 2016, 10:51:20 pm
I like it though. Just a fun little list of guns stats.
Post by: Haspen on August 03, 2016, 02:01:58 am
EDIT: Yeah I replaced standard 5 QL increments with 4 QL increments with 8QL being lowest ;v
Post by: Haspen on August 03, 2016, 04:16:04 am
Spoiler: GUNS! Expanded Edition 1.13 (with all classes done) (click to show/hide)
Post by: GiglameshDespair on August 03, 2016, 07:17:23 am
Pistoleers: never having to fight at a wtd is pretty powerful. They seem to have all the advantages over an arqebusier: sword weapon profs, with the same profs for guns; a mount;
Musketeers suffer a little from any strength growth is pretty useless until their final class, unless they take Centre. That said, they seem pretty alright otherwise? Up to 30 hit is pretty good, I guess? Ironically that probably makes them better shots than the sharpshooters. So there is that.
Sharpshooters: requiring no str or mag growths, they have plenty of % to dump into everything else. Tonk builds, ahoy! They already outrange everything bar longbow snipers and siege magic, so more range isn't all that huge of a bonus. The invisibility of Gun Phantom is a little odd - the way it currently reads, if the sharpshooter moves onto a forest, they can't attack that turn, because they're going invisible. How would invisibility work? Can the SS pepper enemies from afar, and they wouldn't react? Would they try to find him? If they move next to him, and thus discover him, and they then attack?
Is it even much of a bonus? A SS is going to be camping in the back, utilising his insane range.
Curassier: The ultimate hit and run, perhaps. With extreme range and high mobility, I can't imagine much will catch them if they don't want it, especially if they take celerity (or whatever its called).
Dragoons: Seem pretty alright.
All that said, I do wonder how guns would actually work in a map - that huge range gives them such an advantage, and reducing enemy def by half...
With the pistols, B car doesn't seem any improvement over C - actually, just a little bit worse, really.
There's barely any difference between the musket and the dragon in the rifle category.
I dunno. I'm not sure how balanced they'd actually be.
Post by: Twinwolf on August 03, 2016, 07:19:27 am
Post by: Haspen on August 03, 2016, 07:29:50 am
Sharpshooters: mebbe just make them straight invisible in forests a la Fighters were in one handbook or another?
EDIT:
Also Bows having an advantage against Guns: either straight out WTA or +1 to numbers of attacks (its faster to fire a bow than a gun)
Post by: GiglameshDespair on August 03, 2016, 07:56:37 am
Sharpshooter invisibility: I guess? I'm still not sure how invisibility is supposed to work, precisely.
Bows having WTA over guns (and guns having WTD?) would be a lot more consistent with the other game mechanics. Certainly a lot better than getting an additional attack.
Post by: Haspen on August 03, 2016, 08:18:24 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on August 03, 2016, 03:20:20 pm
Bloodborne emblem - the title logo in progress. (reference) (http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/news2/Bloodborne-Video-Showcases-Deadly-Enemies-and-Bosses-473882-2.jpg)
For those who aren't in the know, Bloodborne (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G203e1HhixY) is a sort of Victorian eldritch horror dark souls. The player is a Hunter, someone who hunts the citizens-turned-monster of the city of Yharnam, using guns and transforming weapons called trick weapons to do so.
It's pretty cool, and I am very fond of the setting.
Therefore.
Spoiler: Stats (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Classes (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Weapons (click to show/hide)
Thoughts? Is this something people are interested in?
Post by: Twinwolf on August 03, 2016, 03:28:51 pm
That is my thoughts
Post by: Haspen on August 03, 2016, 03:30:50 pm
Post by: Twinwolf on August 03, 2016, 03:33:37 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on August 03, 2016, 03:46:13 pm
Finish Dark Souls Emblem and then we can talk, mister |vI intend to finish that first, yes.
But my questions stand about BB emblem.
I can talk about games withour starting one, surely? :P
More seriously, I'm not sure if 50% Progression is worth starting with one in every stat but HP and CON/AIDI might have been a little harsh with the Waste of Skin.
My thinking was: he starts with 10 less stat points than the other classes, so he'd make that up in twenty levels, with luck... so around half way through the game, give or take, and then he'd have the advantage. So it takes a while, but he should start showing his worth in the second half of the game.
Post by: SOLDIER First on August 03, 2016, 03:50:29 pm
Finish Dark Souls Emblem and then we can talk, mister |vFinish FEFs 3-6 and you can talk
Post by: Twinwolf on August 03, 2016, 03:52:11 pm
Post by: Haspen on August 03, 2016, 03:57:14 pm
Finish Dark Souls Emblem and then we can talk, mister |vFinish FEFs 3-6 and you can talk
I finished FEF 1-2 therefore I can talk all I want, scrub v|
Post by: Chevaleresse on August 03, 2016, 04:04:10 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on August 03, 2016, 04:12:46 pm
I finished FEF 1-2 therefore I can talk all I want, scrub v|but not 3-6
Post by: GiglameshDespair on August 03, 2016, 04:19:45 pm
thoughts on a FEF with some of the newer classes and such from the games homebrewed in? Possibly with the pairing mechanic, I like that.
When making new classes, you have to consider what niche it will fill. Pretty much every role is already filled through one of the ~45 promoted classes, and the more classes there are, the harder it is to ensure they're all balanced relative to each other.
As for the pairing mechanic... I vaguely remember it from what Awakening I played. I dunno... presumably one player just has to sit there for a while during the pairup?
Post by: SOLDIER First on August 03, 2016, 04:21:18 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on August 03, 2016, 04:26:08 pm
It also mostly overwrites the rescue mechanic. As long as they aren't downed, you can just pair up if they're in trouble, and not only are you not slowed you're actually boosted combat-wise.
Post by: SOLDIER First on August 03, 2016, 04:28:40 pm
Post by: Furtuka on August 03, 2016, 04:31:10 pm
thoughts on a FEF with some of the newer classes and such from the games homebrewed in? Possibly with the pairing mechanic, I like that.we have some notes on that from a few months back. Need to organize them though
Post by: Chevaleresse on August 03, 2016, 04:33:39 pm
edit: it's also not like its mandatory. There are clear benefits to not using it as well; it's just another layer of strategy.
@homebrewed classes: yeah, I'm aware of the extra balancing effort. The goal is basically more player options. Plus, afaik, the new classes fill roles that arent taken yet; off the top of my head, there are no flying ranged units (except a bow troub->valk), and both Kinshi Knights and Malig Knights fill that role.
Post by: xelada on August 04, 2016, 08:20:35 pm
General Things:
- The secondary Member can't be hit during the Pair-Up
- Enemies are also able to use these mechanics
- You can only be in one kind of pair, if you are in a Defensive Pair-Up you cannot Offensively Pair-Up (there is a Skill that means that unit acts as if it where in an Offensive Pair-Up when in a defensive one)
Offensive Pair-Ups:
- For it to happen the Primary Member must be adjacent to another character (the Secobdary Member) when they launch an attack.
- The Primary and Secondary Members both attack simultaneously, with the Secondary Member having their damage they do be halved and coming straight after the Primary Member's attack
- The secondary member can still miss crit, still gains any effects from weapons and ignores range, but cannot use or activate skills nor can they double
Defensive Pair-Ups:
- Happens when the Secondary Member ends their movement adjacent to a friendly character (the Primary Member) and as an action Combines moving as one unit that both inhabit the same square. There is a Skill in the games that lets the user become the Primary Member instead (they still move into the other characters square)
- If the Primary Member was yet to act that turn they still may act
- The Primary Member gets a boost to stats based on the class of the unit (we might be able to use classes preferred stats) and the character themselves (which increase with support levels)
- The Pair has a "Meter" with 10 "Shields", each time the Primary Member attacks or is attacked two Shields are added, once it reaches 10 the next attack against them misses, regardless of it it would have hit otherwise or not
- The Primary Member is immune from the attacks from the Secondary Members of Offensive Pair-Ups, this does not add Shields
- After moving, Primary and Secondary can switch places, and the Secondary can be swapped with other adjacent Secondary Characters given to a character without a Secondary or dropped of in an adjacent square, of these only the last ends your turn, you may still attack, use items, etc. after moving around the members
I think that is everything, feel free to point out bits I missed, or anything that you felt was confusing
Post by: Swordstar on August 04, 2016, 09:29:37 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 04, 2016, 09:43:24 pm
Plus it will make things more complex for the GM which, as we have established previously, is a bit of a no no.
Post by: Swordstar on August 04, 2016, 10:58:51 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 09, 2016, 12:05:35 pm
So go vote for the three you like best, or dislike the least. In a couple days when everyone has voted, we can do another poll in here to choose the finalist out of... a number of these. (https://strawpoll.de/a244342)
Post by: Haspen on August 09, 2016, 12:11:54 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on August 11, 2016, 02:04:51 pm
I'll probably still be able to post and stuff, but don't wait for me too long.
Post by: Swordstar on August 11, 2016, 02:08:54 pm
Flora ;~;
Post by: Solymr on August 11, 2016, 02:30:25 pm
Post by: Haspen on August 25, 2016, 03:06:21 pm
Life have caught up with the incredibly lazy Haspen (that's me), and therefore I will be definitely less and less actively on the forums and the #feftalk channel. It will also affect my ability to host FEFs.
Therefore, I am right now dropping FEF5; it got the nasty episode, some peoples aren't active enough/at all, and it's the best option of all 4 possible.
Unfortunately, if I will have to, FEF3 and FEF6 might also suffer the boot and get closed. These however will have proper closures aka enough plot and battlemaps to get some finish.
FEF4, while not being very far in terms of chapters, is actually in safest position because of excuse plot about macguffin collecting and just random worldjumping battlemaps.
On SPOOKS: Not gonna host the full game. Taricus and Tiruin both expressed thoughts about it, so they can grab the stuff and have fun if they want.
On GUNS! test: Not gonna make it either. Anyone who wants to use the GUNS! extended edition, be my guest, the whole thing is few pages back in this very thread.
Post by: Culise on August 25, 2016, 03:34:33 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on August 25, 2016, 03:35:29 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on August 25, 2016, 03:39:01 pm
Post by: Sirus on August 25, 2016, 03:42:09 pm
Post by: Powder Miner on August 25, 2016, 03:42:33 pm
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on August 25, 2016, 04:53:58 pm
Post by: Deus Asmoth on August 26, 2016, 02:01:45 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on August 26, 2016, 02:04:30 pm
Post by: Chevaleresse on August 26, 2016, 03:57:59 pm
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on August 26, 2016, 04:03:45 pm
Post by: Haspen on August 26, 2016, 04:05:46 pm
Before that, there were Maptools sessions, which were a bit more chaotic but some stuffs I learned from there, like how to character sheet, where to mugs, etc v:
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on August 26, 2016, 04:07:13 pm
Post by: Haspen on August 26, 2016, 04:11:46 pm
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on August 26, 2016, 04:39:08 pm
- Steal mechanics changes from other games and/or make your own.
- Make the lore for the game.
- Try to bash mugs together for important characters.
- Fail to bash mugs together for important characters.
- Cry.
- Make the thread and open recruitment.
Post by: Caellath on August 26, 2016, 04:46:17 pm
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on August 26, 2016, 04:49:50 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on August 26, 2016, 04:54:31 pm
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on August 26, 2016, 04:55:14 pm
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on August 26, 2016, 04:56:29 pm
There isn't, but you probably could have left that post as-is and no one would have even noticed it wasn't Cael. :P
Cael would have noticed it wasn't Cael. And he wouldn't be too happy about that.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on August 26, 2016, 05:25:06 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 26, 2016, 05:27:55 pm
Yeah. Either way I have a lot of crying ahead of me. Wonderful.
Suffering for one's art is traditional, yes.
Post by: Caellath on August 26, 2016, 05:28:04 pm
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on August 26, 2016, 07:18:26 pm
Yeah. Either way I have a lot of crying ahead of me. Wonderful.It gets worst, yey! But I won't discourage you, I have over twenty armored mugs here and I want to try one of them in a game.
Post by: Swordstar on September 04, 2016, 03:55:20 pm
Post by: Haspen on September 04, 2016, 03:57:37 pm
Post by: Swordstar on September 04, 2016, 03:59:17 pm
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on September 12, 2016, 10:06:12 pm
Post by: Haspen on September 13, 2016, 03:03:34 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 13, 2016, 03:22:51 am
Now to make another mug...
Post by: SOLDIER First on September 13, 2016, 06:23:15 am
Quote
... the Brothers of the Sun and the Sisters of the Moon, ...
The sun...? (http://darksouls2.wikidot.com/heirs-of-the-sun) The moon...? (http://darksouls3.wikidot.com/blades-of-the-darkmoon)
Confirmed?!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on September 13, 2016, 08:46:14 am
/me will pray for USEC so this might actually survive past first few chapters ;v
I hope so too. The fact that the first few chapters are going to be all over the place and set weeks apart aren't going to help my chances, but with the plot I'm planning I can't think of a better way to do them. You are going to be running from nation to nation looking for support, so bouncing around the map and having a bunch of timeskips is pretty much a given.
Quote... the Brothers of the Sun and the Sisters of the Moon, ...
The sun...? (http://darksouls2.wikidot.com/heirs-of-the-sun) The moon...? (http://darksouls3.wikidot.com/blades-of-the-darkmoon)
Confirmed?!
Of course not, SB. That would be ridiculous.
EDIT: I have an actual question for everyone. Does the lore dump seem too large and intimidating to anyone else? I was thinking about pruning it down a bit, but I'd like some more input before doing anything drastic. It does flesh out the world after all, and if people already have ideas for characters then maybe it does something right.
Post by: Haspen on September 13, 2016, 09:13:42 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 13, 2016, 09:21:28 am
Post by: Haspen on September 13, 2016, 09:45:14 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on September 13, 2016, 09:55:31 am
Post by: Criptfeind on September 13, 2016, 10:37:28 am
One thing I'm struggling with is getting my mind around the geography of the strait. You got the eastern sea and then the unnamed sea that the summer islands are in on the west, Evreux is bordering the eastern sea and then it boarders Glarus which boarders the western sea, which is all fine and good, but then the northern part of Evreux, The Marz, is part of the Northern Reaches which then goes on off the map into who knows where. And the southern part of Evreux, Epinal, borders the Sultanate of Masjay which itself borders The Saqqaf Caliphate, which like the northern reaches goes off into the south and off the map. So where is the eponymous strait itself? Does it like, split Evreux in half? If so, though what provinces? Is the Unan river a strait between the two seas?
Post by: Swordstar on September 13, 2016, 10:37:59 am
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on September 13, 2016, 10:44:36 am
One thing I'm struggling with is getting my mind around the geography of the strait. You got the eastern sea and then the unnamed sea that the summer islands are in on the west, Evreux is bordering the eastern sea and then it boarders Glarus which boarders the western sea, which is all fine and good, but then the northern part of Evreux, The Marz, is part of the Northern Reaches which then goes on off the map into who knows where. And the southern part of Evreux, Epinal, borders the Sultanate of Masjay which itself borders The Saqqaf Caliphate, which like the northern reaches goes off into the south and off the map. So where is the eponymous strait itself? Does it like, split Evreux in half? If so, though what provinces? Is the Unan river a strait between the two seas?
...
Fuck. I just realized that strait does not mean what I thought it meant. I actually meant isthmus, though perhaps the area is a bit too large for that term. In other words, your confusion is justified. No strait exists in the geography, I was not explaining myself properly. I'm really sorry about that.
Post by: Criptfeind on September 13, 2016, 11:00:34 am
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on September 13, 2016, 11:03:46 am
Post by: Swordstar on September 13, 2016, 11:17:40 am
Post by: Chevaleresse on September 13, 2016, 11:18:27 am
Post by: Haspen on September 13, 2016, 11:19:25 am
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on September 13, 2016, 01:09:40 pm
Additionally I've made a custom class for the Lord of my game (http://pastebin.com/E5Pc3ecG), so I might as well post that while I'm here. Get a little bit of feedback on that so that there's no complaints later. Though with a skill set entirely revolving around not-dying, I'd be surprised if that is the case.
Anyways. All that's left to do now is mapping and making mugs. The two things I was dreading the most.
Post by: Chevaleresse on September 13, 2016, 01:16:58 pm
edit: on the same token, making ignis Cost makes it kinda weak due to it already necessitating investment in three stats to be effective
your modified Dragon Scales seems to render being a Wyvern Rider entirely pointless, unless Fire magic is planned to be super common. As is, that's a pretty narrow category to have bonus defenses against, and the whole point of being a wyvern instead of a pegasus is being generally more tanky than the former
Firebrand basically has Galeforce, which is questionable, though it has an important caveat, so idk.
Post by: Criptfeind on September 13, 2016, 01:27:29 pm
Also as dude who's wanting to play wyvern rider such a niche class skill (made even more niche by promotion stat bonuses... If you want a flying mage hunter, might as well make a Pegasus rider) makes me sad, but the class skill in the book clearly needs to be changed as well. It's certainly a change I can live with, but I guess I figured I'd say it feels like not have a class skill at all.
Edit: About the level 40 cap, although I have no practical experience in the area your reasons for the change seem reasonable to me and I do like the idea.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 13, 2016, 01:40:50 pm
Were it not for those bonuses, I'd say Ignis is better free than cost, but there you go.
I also agree with the sentiment that modifying Dragon Scales to give extra RES against fire magic and nothing else is really weird.
Nothing else is jumping out at me at the moment but I did just come off of a MGSV rage quit so eh.
Post by: Swordstar on September 13, 2016, 01:51:25 pm
Horse archer is a very silly name just go bow knight and ranger at that point.
Sellsword and mercenary is same thing different name btw
Ignis shouldn't be cost for reasons murdoc said
Might want to include hills in what levitation doesn't affect
Really only civilized cost that has mov increase is pillars for fencer
You've made inspiration into charisma. Not a huge fan especially since shaman has very similar skill and gets a buff from theirs
That's a huge buff to leaf on the wind wouldn't suggest doing that
That's a huuuuge nerf to wyvern. At the very least give it against wind magic like 1.2
Inquisitors change is more powerful than base and pretty op.
Not a fan if holy guard skill passive healing people
Mage knight change is not great because it forces them to be mixed basically
In general I'd say changing class names purely for flavor is a good way to cause confusion especially since you can give your enemies good names without changing class names. I'd caution against doing that. I'd also suggest taking a look at the games that are using 1.3 and comparing changes. A lot of the changes you made are either way powerful or way weakening without a lot in the middle. Obviously this is my opinion and you can feel free to ignore some or all of it
Post by: Swordstar on September 13, 2016, 01:53:08 pm
Edit: also may have missed but would suggest making wyvern weak to ether thunder or wind because otherwise like 1/3 of the game is weak to them.
Also I prolly came off slightly harsh in my last post sorry if that's the case but I do think you need to balance things a bit better.
Lord class I think is missing some points on promo. Only has 11 but then has 16 on promo which I think is too many. (Including con every class gets the same number of stats leveled up)
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 13, 2016, 02:01:28 pm
Are they going to be a player? In which case, it's a bit odd. You can give them their plot powers without making them a whole new class. It's also a brand new class with no feedback for secret reasons, and that's not great.
I'm not massively fond of one character being hugely more important than all the others, as then you're in trouble if that player, well, leaves, or isn't as active as you'd hoped.
Despite planning a performer, I don't really like the autoequiping weapons thing. Should everyone with a bow equip a melee weapon, too, or should an archer switch to a longbow automatically if they're attacked at range 3?
Sol is really good. It does raise a question though. When crits do 100 damage to an enemy ewith max 30 health, is 15 healed or 50?
Ignis is nerfed by being cost to not being worthwhile.
I... am also leaning towards disagreeing with split growths.
Would not recommend creating a class without getting actual feedback on the class which is impossible to do without knowing what's going on with it.Would agree with all of this, actually.
Horse archer is a very silly name just go bow knight and ranger at that point.
Sellsword and mercenary is same thing different name btw
Ignis shouldn't be cost for reasons murdoc said
Might want to include hills in what levitation doesn't affect
Really only civilized cost that has mov increase is pillars for fencer
You've made inspiration into charisma. Not a huge fan especially since shaman has very similar skill and gets a buff from theirs
That's a huge buff to leaf on the wind wouldn't suggest doing that
That's a huuuuge nerf to wyvern. At the very least give it against wind magic like 1.2
Inquisitors change is more powerful than base and pretty op.
Not a fan if holy guard skill passive healing people
Mage knight change is not great because it forces them to be mixed basically
In general I'd say changing class names purely for flavor is a good way to cause confusion especially since you can give your enemies good names without changing class names. I'd caution against doing that. I'd also suggest taking a look at the games that are using 1.3 and comparing changes. A lot of the changes you made are either way powerful or way weakening without a lot in the middle. Obviously this is my opinion and you can feel free to ignore some or all of it
Post by: Chevaleresse on September 13, 2016, 02:03:53 pm
Post by: Swordstar on September 13, 2016, 02:06:27 pm
Post by: Swordstar on September 13, 2016, 02:42:01 pm
Edit: to further clarify, it becomes a balance problem. Ignoring the extra growth, promotion is essentially three good levels plus access to better skills, better weapons, and higher support levels. So at that point you either balance around the weaker pcs and let the promoted ones stomp around the field or you balance around the promoted ones and you leave the unpromoted ones doing their best not to die while likely not contributing much.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 13, 2016, 03:04:51 pm
Autoequip on staff is a standard thing, I'm fine with that. Difference is theoretically you could equip something you can't counter with (sword v bow, magic v longbow) vs your exampleI still don't really like it.
Should you autoequip a weapon you're disadvantaged with?
Thinking a bit more on level 40 stuff, tbh I'm not a fan. This is largely because it's going to promote an unfair balance in the group. Some people will get access to promotion items sooner than others and since promoting early no longer has any drawbacks, they have no reason to not promote asap. That means that not only are they instantly significantly stronger than the others in the party, but they will continue to likely be stronger as they'll have more levels with the extra growth that comes with promotion. It's got no drawbacks and will be straight benefits to people who are lucky enough to get their items firstThis is all very true.
Edit: to further clarify, it becomes a balance problem. Ignoring the extra growth, promotion is essentially three good levels plus access to better skills, better weapons, and higher support levels. So at that point you either balance around the weaker pcs and let the promoted ones stomp around the field or you balance around the promoted ones and you leave the unpromoted ones doing their best not to die while likely not contributing much.
Summoners, sages, druids, lore masters and commanders all have to promote as soon as they can, really, to get the full benefit of their class skills.
If you want to limit player power, restrict the rate they get xp. They'll get less levels per map, which makes the difficulty curve smoother.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on September 13, 2016, 03:29:02 pm
Spoiler: General (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: First Class (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Promoted Classes (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Lord Class (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Level Cap discussion (click to show/hide)
Hopefully I got to everybody and didn't sound too hostile/aggressive. I had a lot of posts to wade through after all, so I'm not too sure about either. Still, the amount of discussion is good. I don't want my first attempt at a FEF to crash and die out of the starting gate.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on September 13, 2016, 03:42:23 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 13, 2016, 03:44:10 pm
Thinking on it, I'd say shamans giving +10 crit and dg, and befitting themselves - is really good. 10 crit is a big thing. It doesn't really feel like sacrifice or pagan flavoured, either - it's just a crit boost.
If you want something to do with sacrifice... why not have them sacrifice? Damage themselves to grant something to an ally - damage or crit. Would also have nice synergy with summoners.
Post by: Swordstar on September 13, 2016, 03:44:26 pm
Wyvern skill could stay as 1.3 but only when mounted maybe?
Post by: Chevaleresse on September 13, 2016, 03:49:34 pm
@split growths: it's not that i hate them, really, they're just very exploitable and tend to skew the balance of classes toward mixed ones being just better.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 13, 2016, 03:51:43 pm
The advantage of a straight class is power.
Post by: Criptfeind on September 13, 2016, 03:55:09 pm
I think name changes are fine. I think we can give people a bit of credit when it comes to being too confused. On the other hand I also don't think they actually matter that much since there doesn't need to be a connection between what your class is named and what your character is. I mean, for some people like priests or shaman it helps because the mechanics directly support the fluff. But a mercenary or a nomad doesn't need to actually be a mercenary or nomad in the game.
About Wyvern skill, +5 DEF/RES when at full health feels very strong to me. But I have no idea.
On split growths, uh.. Very strong. Much power. No sacrifice. Wow. Could be okay or not depending on what chu want. I don't mind ether way in a game.
Post by: Chevaleresse on September 13, 2016, 03:56:52 pm
The advantage of a split class is flexibility.well, yeah. Split growth bonuses make it so you get flexibility and lose... nothing, because your stats aren't actually going to be much lower than someone who just put everything into one stat.
The advantage of a straight class is power.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on September 13, 2016, 03:58:53 pm
Thinking on it, I'd say shamans giving +10 crit and dg, and befitting themselves - is really good. 10 crit is a big thing. It doesn't really feel like sacrifice or pagan flavoured, either - it's just a crit boost.
If you want something to do with sacrifice... why not have them sacrifice? Damage themselves to grant something to an ally - damage or crit. Would also have nice synergy with summoners.
What about a temporary bonus if they kill an enemy? Like the next round they have +15 Hit, +2 DAM, and +5 Crit. Then the second round after they have +15 HIT and +2 DAM and the third round after they only have +15 HIT. The bonuses would reset rather than stack if they manage to kill another in the same time frame. And said bonuses are just an example, they can be nerfed or buffed or whatever.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 13, 2016, 04:02:16 pm
The advantage of a split class is flexibility.well, yeah. Split growth bonuses make it so you get flexibility and lose... nothing, because your stats aren't actually going to be much lower than someone who just put everything into one stat.
The advantage of a straight class is power.
Essentially my problem with it, yeah.
Post by: Swordstar on September 13, 2016, 04:03:36 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 13, 2016, 04:04:59 pm
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on September 13, 2016, 04:15:58 pm
Thinking on it, I'd say shamans giving +10 crit and dg, and befitting themselves - is really good. 10 crit is a big thing. It doesn't really feel like sacrifice or pagan flavoured, either - it's just a crit boost.
If you want something to do with sacrifice... why not have them sacrifice? Damage themselves to grant something to an ally - damage or crit. Would also have nice synergy with summoners.
Yeah, I was thinking about something like that. Absolutely no clue how to balance it properly though, hence why I didn't follow through on my ideas. Losing X HP to increase an ally's damage by X for a turn is an option. Make the largest value X can be 5 or something, so that people don't abuse it horribly. That could work. Or lose 5 HP and grant 20 crit or something. Any preference as to which stat it should buff?
What about a temporary bonus if they kill an enemy? Like the next round they have +15 Hit, +2 DAM, and +5 Crit. Then the second round after they have +15 HIT and +2 DAM and the third round after they only have +15 HIT. The bonuses would reset rather than stack if they manage to kill another in the same time frame. And said bonuses are just an example, they can be nerfed or buffed or whatever.
That's also a good idea for Shaman. Allow the option to transfer the buffs to someone else too, just to spread the love around. The only problem I can see is with chaining kills so that the decay never becomes a major factor in battle.
Lord class is still eh. Not a fan of having things revolve around super important npc. Tends to lead to railroaded plot.
Eh as in you don't like the concept or Eh as in it's an imbalanced and terrible class? I can tolerate the former, honestly. Because I know how linear my plot is and am fine with that. I am pretty much copying a real-life event here, though edited to have a victorious/satisfying conclusion. So it is going to be quite linear, sorry.
Wyvern skill could stay as 1.3 but only when mounted maybe?
So +5 Defence and Resistance when the Wyvern is exactly one HP below the maximum? More seriously: +5 Defence/Resistance while at full HP might be a good idea, now that I'm thinking about it. I originally thought it was too limited, but if you have a pocket priest to follow you around or some potions to gulp it might be pretty useful.
Can we just... Maybe come up with something other than horse archer? That's the only one that really bugs me >_>
I don't see the problem with it. It's the usual name for dudes who ride horses and shoot arrows at the same time. Unless I'm missing something here?
Post by: SOLDIER First on September 13, 2016, 04:22:41 pm
Post by: Swordstar on September 13, 2016, 04:58:43 pm
Also Lord is don't like concept and not sure about balance
Post by: Criptfeind on September 13, 2016, 05:11:25 pm
Maybe that's okay for a promoted class power thou. "Immune to some enemies when at full hp"
At the very least, it's almost like... +5 max hp that increases by 5 every time you're fully healed. Seems good to me.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 13, 2016, 06:04:12 pm
Post by: Criptfeind on September 13, 2016, 07:05:54 pm
You also have to take into account weapon strength though. Admittedly, E and some D ranks will have trouble, but C and above should be able to do it no problem with Str/ cancelling out.
Well, that's what I mean, +5 from Scale, +3 from heart, +2 from PS and up to +6 from armored means that you can ignore any physical damage less then 46 with full defense. Even with maxed out strength most physical categories can't reach that high. Swords have a single S rank Crush weapon. Lances have three weapons that'll get though (two because they are effective and one S rank). Axes have six weapons (but on the other hand also have a subcategory dedicated to hurting such a character). Bows and mag weapons are still pretty good of course.
All and all, +5 for just a first class bonus seems strong. Knight gets less for what feels like a more situational ability. Maybe if it scaled like the knight ability did it might be less overwhelming at first and still allow super late game tanking?
Well this is theorycrafting a very tanky dude I guess. Perhaps doesn't hold up so well in reality, and I probably shouldn't be arguing against the effectiveness of the build I plan to sign up with...
Post by: Swordstar on September 13, 2016, 07:27:36 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on September 13, 2016, 07:33:42 pm
Post by: Chevaleresse on September 13, 2016, 07:34:19 pm
How do you get Armored as a Wyvern Rider? I'm pretty sure that's a Knight thing.Wyvern Knight gains Armored.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 13, 2016, 07:34:53 pm
How do you get Armored as a Wyvern Rider? I'm pretty sure that's a Knight thing.
One of their promotes, Wyvern Knight, gets it as a class feature.
Post by: Criptfeind on September 13, 2016, 07:36:21 pm
So I have full on tonk version of Wyvern Knight. He's powerful but he's not infalliable. Magic still hurts. Effective damage is still a thing. And as soon as someone manages to do 2 damage, it drops down a lot.
Ah well, I suppose that's the voice of experience then, and with dragon heart slightly toned down as well (assume you're using the stuff from the base book) a similar character in this game would presumably be somewhat weaker! My worries at least, are satisfied.
Post by: Swordstar on September 13, 2016, 07:38:18 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on September 13, 2016, 07:39:02 pm
Not that I'm not going to go WH with Beryn anyway, because it would be OOC for him to start using swords.
@Ninja Sword: Agreed. Don't they already get Dragon Heart according to USEC's rules?
Post by: Swordstar on September 13, 2016, 07:41:58 pm
Post by: Swordstar on September 13, 2016, 07:44:21 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on September 13, 2016, 07:45:29 pm
Post by: Swordstar on September 13, 2016, 07:46:52 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 13, 2016, 07:52:40 pm
Post by: Swordstar on September 13, 2016, 08:02:39 pm
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on September 13, 2016, 08:12:25 pm
- Shaman's ability is changed to 'Anthropomancy': Whenever this character lands the final blow on an enemy, they gain +10 to Evade and Dodge and +3 to Damage Reduction. Every turn one third of the bonus is removed, starting with Damage Reduction, then Evade and finally Dodge. This ability does not stack with itself. I obviously preferred the combat sacrifice idea over the self-sacrifice one (Anthropomancy is the divination of the future from human sacrifices after all). Hopefully the lack of offensive boosts keep it from being too easy to maintain/chain.
- Hospitalier (Holy Guard) is staying the same for now because fuck if I know how to do a better healing skill.
- Inquisitor gets to mess with attack/evade rolls 3 times per battle with no way to recharge. It brings them into line with the changes I made to Triangle Attack, just with hit/evade instead of crits. Though I should probably drop Triangle Attack down because even 3 crits per battle is a bit much.
- Mage Knight now gets 'Redirect Magic': If an enemy attacks this character with an Anima, Light or Dark attack and misses, that unit loses an amount of HP equal to a third of that attack's damage. Is this more acceptable? Does it sound useful and interesting? Or does it need more adjustment?
- Wyvern Hunter gets Pierce back, though without the 2 Defence ignoring or the +Half Luck chance to activate. Just (Skill)% chance to ruin someone's day. I kinda misread their original ability, which is why I confused it for Luna. So that's sorted out. Would adding some kind of anti-flyer skill to it be a good idea or is it fine now?
- Wyvern Knight loses Armoured. Didn't realise it had it in the first place, honestly. Having both that and extra defence from Dragon Heart is kinda overpowered, yeah.
Have I missed anything? Did any other classes which I forgot need improvements or nerfs?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 13, 2016, 08:12:44 pm
I think they shouldn't be weak to wind but weak to thunder which seems to be general accepted thing
Yeah, I consider that to be a fair alternative.
Post by: Criptfeind on September 13, 2016, 08:19:49 pm
- Wyvern Knight loses Armoured. Didn't realise it had it in the first place, honestly. Having both that and extra defence from Dragon Heart is kinda overpowered, yeah.
Awwww.... I thought it was sorta cute. But I guess if that's what needs to be done. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Kinda a big nerf, +3 def and some AS when at high hp doesn't feel like a lot for a promoted class alone. But idk anything about balance.
Also 'Anthropomancy' seems to be a lot worse then before but still probably a lot better then their previous skill so arite.
Post by: Swordstar on September 13, 2016, 08:27:28 pm
Also stil ehhhh on mage knight. Part of their big thing has always been that they get some amount of physical weapons.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on September 13, 2016, 08:31:10 pm
Post by: Swordstar on September 13, 2016, 08:43:23 pm
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on September 13, 2016, 08:58:58 pm
Here are the latest set of changes to the game. (http://pastebin.com/33dtgsHy) Hopefully we've weeded most of the problems out with it. Hopefully?
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on September 13, 2016, 09:30:27 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/bV4FhED.png) Except when you turn around.
Post by: Haspen on September 14, 2016, 01:28:14 am
There you go .'v
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on September 14, 2016, 01:47:01 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 14, 2016, 02:05:44 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on September 14, 2016, 02:21:31 am
Open it up in an image editor and zoom in. The shading is just real subtle 'cause the armor is shiny.
CLARIFICATION EDIT: Shaded it, I mean. Praef did everything else on his own.
Post by: Swordstar on September 14, 2016, 07:44:26 am
Post by: Parsely on September 14, 2016, 09:58:55 am
Post by: Swordstar on September 14, 2016, 10:24:16 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on September 14, 2016, 02:02:13 pm
Post by: Swordstar on September 14, 2016, 02:05:32 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 14, 2016, 03:27:43 pm
The eyeholes don't look like eyeholes, just like black squares drawn over the top.
The spurs on the helmet are missing for the other side.
The shotel is also a bit wonky where the edge meets the fuller.
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on September 14, 2016, 08:04:01 pm
Yeah, it looks like, well, plastic, rather than metal, to me.Aren't you just a ray of sunshine.
The eyeholes don't look like eyeholes, just like black squares drawn over the top.
The spurs on the helmet are missing for the other side.
The shotel is also a bit wonky where the edge meets the fuller.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 14, 2016, 08:12:54 pm
Post by: Caellath on September 14, 2016, 08:40:32 pm
Post by: Parsely on September 15, 2016, 01:55:53 am
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on September 15, 2016, 10:47:56 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 15, 2016, 03:35:49 pm
I wasn't trying to be rude, but my comments stand nonetheless. There's more mistakes, but those are the ones that stand out. If I wanted to be rude I would have just called it bad without singling out what could do with improvement. I'd prefer to be just blunt and honest.
It's by the critism of others one can improve as an artist. Your art has a lot of flaws common to all your mugs, and if no one points them out, how can they be improved?
If you'd used that mug as is in a game, I would have found the mistakes irritating to have to keep looking at, so I'm of course not neutral, but if you post a mug you should be prepared for people's comments on it. I'm not being rude but I'm not sugarcoating things either.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on September 15, 2016, 03:46:12 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Considering that I have the artistic talent of a mite, how acceptable is the above for a combat map? Obviously I'm going to fiddle with it a bit more, add in some barricades and what not, so I'm mostly asking about aesthetics here. How much does it make your eyes burn? Is it passable for a first FEF?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 15, 2016, 03:48:12 pm
Post by: Haspen on September 15, 2016, 03:50:01 pm
On more serious note: it's quite good. Houses are easily visible, so are trees, hills and what I assume cliffsides (mud walls?). Peachy background gives it... I dunno how to put it, pastel look, which is what not many tilesets go for (we go for dark and edgy cuz we dark and edgy when FEFing :P)
4/5, would play on map.
It's pretty good except for the stone path. I legitimately thought it was a wonky river for a bit.
Where do you live in that your river water is greyish I:
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 15, 2016, 03:51:51 pm
Some damned fools swim in it (and sometimes drown).
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on September 15, 2016, 04:06:03 pm
It's pretty good except for the stone path. I legitimately thought it was a wonky river for a bit.
Yeah. I had trouble making a cobblestone road that looked good. That was my best attempt. The same goes for the cliffs. And the forests. And the hills.
Peachy background gives it... I dunno how to put it, pastel look, which is what not many tilesets go for (we go for dark and edgy cuz we dark and edgy when FEFing :P)
Well the first two maps take place in Masjay, so I was trying to go for a bushland/muddy kind of palette, even if I didn't entirely realize it. Darker and edgier will happen after that. :u
Question: How many maps do you all usually make ahead of time? I'm going to make the first two to figure my basic tiles out out ahead of time, but after that I'm not too sure what I'm supposed to do.
Post by: Haspen on September 15, 2016, 04:24:55 pm
Which sometimes happens less than 6 hours before next chapter is actually about to start '<.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 15, 2016, 04:28:26 pm
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on September 15, 2016, 05:22:08 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 15, 2016, 05:35:44 pm
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on September 16, 2016, 04:59:10 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Alright. Thanks for the help, guys. I'll try not to follow Haspen's example and make maps in advance. :v
I have the basic idea for my maps bouncing around in my head, but transmitting them to
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 16, 2016, 05:09:24 pm
Post by: Haspen on September 16, 2016, 05:18:54 pm
What doors are shut or open?
Is green door some special shop place?
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 16, 2016, 05:23:16 pm
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on September 16, 2016, 08:52:49 pm
What doors are shut or open?
Due to the objective of that map, all of the doors are open/visitable. Except the big building in the center because you start from there.
Is green door some special shop place?
It's not a shop, but it is special.
Are the fences(?) passable?
Yes. They cost 2 MOV (4 Mounted) though. They are more or less barriers to make it more difficult to move around. Something to clog up everyone running moving about the place.
Post by: Mopsy on September 16, 2016, 09:11:38 pm
I have the basic idea for my maps bouncing around in my head, but transmitting them topaper1s and 0s is a bit of a problem. Case in point: The map above. It's supposed to be a cozy little village, but something about it seems off to me. I'm just not sure what. Any suggestions how to improve it?
To my eyes, the road and the river make the map look too artificial. They're both completely straight, they cross in the lower right corner, the 1-tile wide road is 1 row above the bottom edge and the 2-tile wide river is 2 tiles to the left of the right edge. More irregular forms (e.g. curving river/road, crossing near the center of the map, with houses clustered around the bridge) would probably evoke a cozier feeling. I'm not fond of the low-contrast, pastel-heavy color scheme, but that's just my personal taste.
It also looks a little strange that all the vegetation is concentrated in the corners of the tiles.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on September 16, 2016, 09:21:32 pm
To my eyes, the road and the river make the map look too artificial. They're both completely straight, they cross in the lower right corner, the 1-tile wide road is 1 row above the bottom edge and the 2-tile wide river is 2 tiles to the left of the right edge. More irregular forms (e.g. curving river/road, crossing near the center of the map, with houses clustered around the bridge) would probably evoke a cozier feeling.
That will definitely help. I originally wanted the river going through the middle of the map, like you suggested, but couldn't get a layout that I liked. Everything seemed too constrained and cramped. Maybe I'll extend the map up and down a little bit and see if that helps. If not I'll fiddle with the river and road in my current design to make them less regular. Especially the river, since the road is man-made and thus has an excuse to be straight.
It also looks a little strange that all the vegetation is concentrated in the corners of the tiles.
It's supposed to make things look neater when you have actual units on the map, since naturally they'll be in the center of the tile. The key word is, of course, supposed to.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on September 17, 2016, 04:24:07 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Version 2 of my village map. Hopefully it looks much better than the first one. Since the river is now through the middle of the map I added in a couple more rivers/fords so that it's not as an impassible barrier. Unless someone can point something obviously terrible about the map, I suppose that I have to start work on mugs now. Which I have been putting off for obvious reasons.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 17, 2016, 04:31:46 pm
Post by: darkpaladin109 on September 17, 2016, 04:38:01 pm
Post by: Mopsy on September 17, 2016, 05:14:25 pm
It also looks a little strange that all the vegetation is concentrated in the corners of the tiles.
It's supposed to make things look neater when you have actual units on the map, since naturally they'll be in the center of the tile. The key word is, of course, supposed to.
I suspected that it was something like that. It's a reasonable idea, but if people move their characters into the forest or onto the road, then your efforts will be for naught! Not a major issue in any case.
Version 2 of my village map. Hopefully it looks much better than the first one. Since the river is now through the middle of the map I added in a couple more rivers/fords so that it's not as an impassible barrier.
I'd say that's a huge improvement. It looks much livelier and more natural.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on September 17, 2016, 05:52:50 pm
I'd say that's a huge improvement. It looks much livelier and more natural.
Thanks. It's was your advice that helped me the most with it after all.
I suspected that it was something like that. It's a reasonable idea, but if people move their characters into the forest or onto the road, then your efforts will be for naught! Not a major issue in any case.
Fuck. You're right. Having a unit on a road looks completely disgusting. Thankfully the forests seem to be okay, since most of the tree is blocked behind the map sprite. So I won't have to redo them, just the cobblestone ones. At least you pointed it out instead of me realizing it during a mission and completely changing everything.
Also: What would be the best place for me to get advice/assistance with mugs? None of the default sprites have the amount of worry/anxiousness that I want, and obviously my skills as a spriter are not up to the task to add it. Better than me spamming this thread all the time. Which I have been doing a lot.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 17, 2016, 06:17:53 pm
Post by: Haspen on September 18, 2016, 02:49:21 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on September 18, 2016, 02:50:46 am
Post by: Haspen on September 18, 2016, 02:51:39 am
Except I'm the worst at everything ever so probably better to ask another spriter.
He's lying so he can procrastinate more :P
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on September 18, 2016, 08:40:04 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on September 18, 2016, 08:44:36 am
Post by: Haspen on September 18, 2016, 09:34:53 am
I said that whoever made the other version made it a bit better :v
Post by: birdy51 on September 18, 2016, 11:16:41 am
Post by: Furtuka on September 18, 2016, 02:24:00 pm
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on September 18, 2016, 04:55:22 pm
Yeah but I'm the only one who had the last two mugs he showed (Empress Grifen, the shading on Lautrec) regarded as shit and also the only spriter who does pretty much the exact opposite of every single one of Gun's 'do this for mugs' rules. :v So unlike everyone else I actually have a legitimate reason for saying 'fuck it' and retiring.All I can say is don't let that get to you. The same way there are discouraging comments there are also some that will encourage you to keep going, so just try to filter the extra negativity and focus on the positive ones to at least have a reason to keep going. I still think you did a good work on Lautrec's shading, you saw how terrible I am at shading, and honestly these new mugs I sent you via PMs only will look good once get they a proper shading. And while I am still learning I can at least create armored mugs from nothing instead of editing an existing mug, so shrugging off excessive negative comments is what I did to not give up yet.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 18, 2016, 05:46:32 pm
I feel myself and others are somewhat misrepresented by that comment. By you as well, SC. Constructive criticism is not "excessive negative comments". Honest feedback is not "excessively negative". If you make something and people point out mistakes, don't take it as a personal insult. If you make something and people prefer something else, it's not a slur on your artistic talents.
No, the shading on Lautrec wasn't good. Shiny metal doesn't look like that (http://www.ageofarmour.com/instock/gothic3.jpg). Note the distinct areas of lighter and darker shades. You've made other stuff as well, stuff that's good. Enough people have said it it's actually kind of irritating you keep up with the woe-is-me-everyone-hates-my-stuff act.
Guess what? I've made bad mugs before, as well. My attempt at the headdress for the inca mug, my first attempt at making a mug with glasses. They weren't good, and people said as such, but I've not then just started talking about how people say my work is shit and calling it "excessively negative comments".
What you should do is look at the mistakes that have been pointed out and try to fix them, or try to fix it for the next mug you do. You can't improve without criticism. To just... dismiss it is missing the point entirely.
And while I am still learning I can at least create armored mugs from nothing instead of editing an existing mug, so shrugging off excessive negative comments is what I did to not give up yet.
Nice backhanded comment there.
If you're trying to create art from scratch, it's even more imperative that you listen to criticism to improve beyond your current stage. Otherwise you won't get better and you'll keep making the same mistakes. And quite frankly, there are mistakes. You can stick your fingers in your ears if you want, but you'll not improve that way. Art is a learning process.
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on September 18, 2016, 06:01:27 pm
Saying the "metal looks like plastic" isn't a way to approach, and for your information I barely post my mugs in this thread, so I couldn't care less if yo are going to come up with something like that. Guess what? My mugs were pretty bad before-I mean really bad, but I had been guided by people who were able to provide -proper- criticism, so because I chose to ignore your comment don't get bothered. As far as I know people aren't forced to attended to random people's wishes. So don't come up with this claiming that I am ignoring criticism in general, simply because I am ignoring -yours- in specific.
And that's not a backhand comment, you reached the point of taking it to personal issue if you think that message was pointed to someone in specific, because I was simply giving SC an example. Otiros' first mug was literally an armor edit of a mook before SC created a new one for me, and Tantallos' mask was based on a hood from a random FE boss. So my only suggestion for you is to word your criticism better if you don't want people to misunderstand your position, because honestly I didn't buy the whole "blunt" thing at all. Cael is very direct about the things I have to fix, it is literally just "this or that could use a bit of change", not "this looks way off, it doesn't look like a visor at all". And I won't reply to your comments here anymore, this thread isn't for pointless discussions, and I would rather avoid this turning into a bigger issue than it already is.
Post by: Melissa on September 18, 2016, 06:22:44 pm
Cael is very direct about the things I have to fix, it is literally just "this or that could use a bit of change", not "this looks way off, it doesn't look like a visor at all".
If someone wording something like that is all it takes for you to become frustrated, claim it as an "overly negative comment", and ignore them, then you may want to dial it back, step away from the keyboard, and come back later. There's a level of sensitivity that people should have towards these things, and yours is... Way too high.
If you want actual advice on the mess in your avatar, voila:
(http://puu.sh/rfZdx/4a7e300d8c.png)
Here is my avatar, and while the armor is not bright, it has depth, which is the thing lacking the most in yours. It's barely shaded, shaded poorly elsewhere, and the colors are far too yellow, not golden. Which is odd to me because there are plenty of golden yellow or orange yellow swatches of color that exist in FE which would work much better with the proper shading.
As well here, you can see I'm showing light reflecting off of it on the shoulder pads, with the way I've used the second shade to cordon off an area. It makes it metallic at first glance, especially at typical GBA size.
(http://puu.sh/rfZeC/609f04ff04.png)
Again, the armor isn't bright, but it has depth, which is very important, even if you can't manage to give the armor that metallic sheen. I would highly suggest going back and working on your things more before getting on the soapbox of what should and should not be said. I may not have seniority in the bay12 community, but when it comes to spriting, I know a fair bit more than all of you, especially in regards to what is or isn't "criticism".
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 18, 2016, 06:26:19 pm
For the record, this pillar of negativity:
Yeah, it looks like, well, plastic, rather than metal, to me.The shading is wrong; it looks like plastic. Doesn't seem to me as something overly offensive, because it does, but apparently got you in enough of a huff it invalidated everything I said.
'The shading is off' isn't as informative. Off how? Is it mishaped? The wrong shades?
The eyeholes don't look like eyeholes, just like black squares drawn over the top.The "black squares" part was necessary to explain why they didn't look like eyeholes.
The spurs on the helmet are missing for the other side.This.. can't be simplified. They're missing. Did the plastic comment invalidate this?
The shotel is also a bit wonky where the edge meets the fuller.Again, it's pretty straight to the point. No 'excessive negativity'.
I'm not really seeing how it's not 'proper' criticism, beyond your feelings bruising like a peach.
Post by: Melissa on September 18, 2016, 06:30:55 pm
LMAO
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
How much sugar coating do you want on things?
There is literally nothing negative in those comments.
Put the blast shields down captains, and take some time to think.
Holy fuck.
Post by: Swordstar on September 18, 2016, 06:38:52 pm
That could really do with some shading.
There were also several iterations of this of varying types but yeah
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on September 18, 2016, 07:20:13 pm
And by excessive negative comments, I wasn't talking about what happened moments ago, I was talking about comments that are literally just trash-talking about something you worked on, a feedback without proper criticism.No, this is what I call excessive negativity. But apparently you skipped that part, which doesn't surprise me. Like I said, if Gigla considered his post overly negative when I was talking about things in general AND not his post, that's not my problem. I simply chose to not follow his criticism, the message towards SC had nothing to do with Gigla, but apparently you aren't able to grasp that yet, are you?
Post by: Melissa on September 18, 2016, 07:22:44 pm
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on September 18, 2016, 07:28:51 pm
I am, and I'm also able to follow that you ignore others criticisms as well. If you enjoy yourself and where you are, feel free to stick to it, but don't get surprised when people call out your work as simply "bad" because you've refused actual criticism in the past.Very ironic you say that if you read the previous posts. I just said that I do take the suggestions of others, I simply didn't take his on specific. If I didn't take any, I wouldn't have moved from the part I was before at all, and I know that. And I certainly do know my shading sucks too and there are parts that still need to be tweaked here and there, I am not denying that, but like I said before I am not taking -his- opinion on specific. So when someone points something out I try to fix them, for example a recent armor I created for my forest Knight, god knows how many times I had to change the helmet shape and the grey tones of the armor.
Post by: Melissa on September 18, 2016, 07:31:17 pm
gig quoted what he said in a post up there
there's nothing wrong with it
yet you choose to ignore it?
that's just being ignorant.
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on September 18, 2016, 07:33:00 pm
Post by: Melissa on September 18, 2016, 07:35:23 pm
So you can have a different "opinion" and still be wrong.
And you're still not addressing why you're ignoring valid criticism lol.
You're just coming across as childish and stubborn because he hurt your feelings or something lmao.
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on September 18, 2016, 07:38:10 pm
I have, but art isn't entirely subjective. I'm sure some art is, but pixel art, the type in question, has set rules and standards, especially in a fire emblem specific style.And you are coming off as a jackass. Instead of bothering someone about their decision you should let it go.
So you can have a different "opinion" and still be wrong.
And you're still not addressing why you're ignoring valid criticism lol.
You're just coming across as childish and stubborn because he hurt your feelings or something lmao.
Post by: Melissa on September 18, 2016, 07:39:35 pm
You should learn to take criticism from others better, instead of writing it off as "an opinion."
You'll get further in life.
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on September 18, 2016, 07:41:46 pm
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on September 18, 2016, 10:00:44 pm
Post by: Haspen on September 19, 2016, 02:13:51 am
If he doesn't want advice/help, don't give him any, simple as that.
Post by: Solymr on September 19, 2016, 07:13:27 am
Post by: Felissan on September 24, 2016, 12:29:02 pm
Post by: Swordstar on September 29, 2016, 10:04:21 pm
Here's an example of what he does:
Spoiler: Niamh (my FE:AR character) (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Shae (BMM's FEF6 character) (click to show/hide)
If you're interested, PM me and I'll get you price info as well as contact info if you're still interested
Post by: Tiruin on September 30, 2016, 12:11:13 am
Hey friends! I have a friend who does some pretty awesome art who is currently open to taking commissions for anyone that can pay :POlord my eyes .-.; that's so hhhhh in my art loving part of my brain that woooow. :-[
Here's an example of what he does:[...]Spoiler: Niamh (my FE:AR character) (click to show/hide)
If you're interested, PM me and I'll get you price info as well as contact info if you're still interested
I wish I had money to throw at him online, but tell your friend that he is skilled and doing great! Much encouragement to him!
Also those haaaaaaaaands! I like that lineart :3
Post by: Haspen on September 30, 2016, 04:34:19 am
-snip of glorious things-
Moments like this make me cry for not having foreign monies ;_;
Post by: Swordstar on September 30, 2016, 07:22:50 am
Post by: Haspen on September 30, 2016, 08:31:27 am
You can use paypal! It converts your silly money into the silly Canadian money he uses
:vc
No! Shoo! Don't tempt me, evil woman, I have important things to pay for V;!
Post by: Tiruin on September 30, 2016, 08:35:12 am
You can use paypal! It converts your silly money into the silly Canadian money he usesI have no idea how to make a paypal >_> I do however like services that require or use the phone/mobile to pay, because I can easily do that!
Post by: Swordstar on September 30, 2016, 08:39:01 am
Post by: Haspen on September 30, 2016, 08:42:01 am
Post by: Swordstar on September 30, 2016, 08:44:46 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on September 30, 2016, 08:59:25 am
Post by: Swordstar on September 30, 2016, 10:30:50 am
Post by: Haspen on September 30, 2016, 10:39:24 am
I'll check and see if there's another way!
SerCon gibes you money, you send money to friend, voila :P
Post by: somemildmanneredidiot on September 30, 2016, 10:44:03 am
If you do go for Paypal, make sure that the invoice feature is used because of new policy things that Paypal has been juggling around.
Post by: Swordstar on September 30, 2016, 10:46:02 am
I'll check and see if there's another way!
SerCon gibes you money, you send money to friend, voila :P
I would be ok with that if SC is
Post by: Sirus on September 30, 2016, 02:49:58 pm
-awesomesnip-Well...damn. I almost want a group shot or something but I've never commissioned art before :/
(well, okay I did once but that was for fake Internet money, not real greenbacks)
Post by: Haspen on September 30, 2016, 02:54:06 pm
Post by: Swordstar on September 30, 2016, 04:55:40 pm
-awesomesnip-Well...damn. I almost want a group shot or something but I've never commissioned art before :/
(well, okay I did once but that was for fake Internet money, not real greenbacks)
:3
Post by: UXLZ on October 04, 2016, 10:24:22 am
Post by: Twinwolf on October 04, 2016, 10:28:48 am
Post by: UXLZ on October 04, 2016, 10:41:47 am
Post by: Sirus on October 04, 2016, 11:39:51 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 04, 2016, 11:50:08 am
Post by: Twinwolf on October 04, 2016, 01:17:52 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on October 04, 2016, 02:31:06 pm
Hmm.
If you do plan to resurrect your game, I'd suggest a reboot.
Post by: Swordstar on October 04, 2016, 02:43:05 pm
Post by: Haspen on October 04, 2016, 02:45:15 pm
I'm not sure I still have the mugs.
Hmm.
If you do plan to resurrect your game, I'd suggest a reboot.
Or a wholly new one ;v
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 04, 2016, 03:36:58 pm
Post by: Swordstar on October 04, 2016, 03:41:57 pm
Post by: Sirus on October 04, 2016, 04:33:36 pm
Post by: Swordstar on October 04, 2016, 04:49:10 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on October 04, 2016, 04:52:49 pm
Also Sirus, you forgot to put the most overused subtitle ever, 'Revelations', in your sig there. :P
Post by: Sirus on October 04, 2016, 08:28:21 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on October 04, 2016, 09:28:08 pm
Post by: Tiruin on October 05, 2016, 12:38:04 am
Um, I'm back. Hi.YOU! :D WELCOME BACK!
Hope you've been doing well lately after dropping out of the radar for a time!
Post by: UXLZ on October 05, 2016, 04:39:18 am
I'm not sure I still have the mugs.
Hmm.
If you do plan to resurrect your game, I'd suggest a reboot.
That's what I was intending. At the very least there are a few things I'd like to pull over from the documents I still possess, a few concepts in particular I still like the idea of even if they weren't particularly well executed originally (and the lord will continue to use SC's gorgeous sprite set <3), but a reboot would be best. In the end, it will probably end up being essentially a whole new game with only the lord (and potentially her butler) as a pullover. Even then, I might revamp most of her personality and backstory, so it's basically just that I want to use SC's sprite set because I love it so much...
Honestly speaking the main problem is that even if I really really wanted to reboot it as it was, a very large portion of the storyline was contained only within my head, and it would end up as a differently to the original intention anyway.
But I get ahead of myself. I'll give more information once I've actually put some concrete work into it.
Post by: Haspen on October 05, 2016, 05:45:21 am
Nobody's gonna yell at you for a plot change.
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 05, 2016, 05:49:07 am
Post by: Sirus on October 05, 2016, 08:42:50 am
Post by: UXLZ on October 06, 2016, 12:29:49 am
I like the idea of a reboot.
So do I, and while the actual story is going to be significantly different, the starting conditions are similar enough that anyone wanting to reuse a character won't have too much difficulty modifying them. The world and all that will be totally revamped (rather than some sort of weird peninsula I'll try to design something more like an actual continent) but what I have in my mind at the moment is probably vaguely similar to how Glow's campaign started off in terms of character motivation.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on October 06, 2016, 12:39:36 am
Post by: UXLZ on October 06, 2016, 01:48:34 am
Those of us in the previous one get reserved slots? :P In any case let us know when it goes up.
Of course, for those who wish it. It's only fair. I might go down to only eight players anyway (lord not included) depending on if everyone wants to rejoin, as I'm not confident in my encounter balancing. One other thing is that I'm not sure I want the lord to be a dancer because dancers are sort of weirding me out, trying to think of how they might function and how dance-magic could fit into a world's lore. A bard might still make sense though, and having a performer lord can admittedly help avoid DMPC problems.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on October 06, 2016, 01:59:54 am
Post by: UXLZ on October 06, 2016, 02:13:55 am
A dancer lord would be useless unless they also moved on the player turn, though, due to how it goes PC->Enemy->Ally. Unless pre-performing is a thing. So... up to you how it'll work?
If you'll recall how it worked, the Lord moved on the same turn as the players and in-battle had her actions democratically controlled by the group, with me having no input and just controlling stuff like dialogue. If I make her a Performer again I imagine it will be the same system, probably even if it's a fighter-type lord. How do the other game masters do it?
Oh, and maaaan, I love the sprite you made for her so damn much, but my god her jaw is so sharp. XD (I'll be modifying them all to be a bit more rounded, as well as a few other potential changes. Probably just minor redraws or color tweaking.)
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on October 06, 2016, 02:51:13 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on October 06, 2016, 06:57:17 am
Post by: UXLZ on October 06, 2016, 07:03:34 am
"Image not found or was removed."
Yeah, I'll edit that out. I've reuploaded a new gallery with all the fixed stuff, but here's the comparison.
(https://s5.postimg.org/4hyqh0kxj/Lord_Overconfident.png)
vs
(https://s5.postimg.org/uaylddj3r/Lord_Overconfident.png)
Outside of smoothing her jaw, I've slightly redrawn the left eye to not look like it's pointing in a different direction to the other eye (present in the base eyes, not SC's fault. You can't see it with these images but it's basically just shifting the pupil one pixel to the right) and gotten rid of the black outlines (instead using darkened version of the appropriate area's color and FEF7's purple in other areas like eyelashes.)
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on October 06, 2016, 11:42:14 am
Edit: Nope, it was another game apparently.
Post by: UXLZ on October 06, 2016, 12:44:55 pm
My memory fails me, but I think I had a fighter>forest knight in your waitlist. So I might try to revive him with a new design/bio if you do bring your game back.
Edit: Nope, it was another game apparently.
Good players are always welcome. =P
I say I'm thinking of downsizing to 8, but having extra experienced people is likely to help more than potentially hinder, if only for balance suggestions if (pfft, more like when) things go awry.
Anyway, here's a sample of the Lord's new and (hopefully improved) potential personality, provided by the (potentially going to be changed, admittedly) opening post of when I (potentially) get around to starting things.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Do you guys like the writing style? I'm a bit hesitant to use the "you are "x"" descriptor since FEF games have a lot of PCs with different personalities, but I really feel like it adds a lot to the atmosphere, or at least clarifies what I think it feels like (which your characters may then react to and alter.)
Oh, and should I refer to the lord as "lord" or "lady" in general text?
Post by: Haspen on October 06, 2016, 12:46:16 pm
Post by: Chevaleresse on October 06, 2016, 01:14:11 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on October 06, 2016, 01:18:45 pm
Post by: Chevaleresse on October 06, 2016, 01:22:05 pm
Unfortunately that would require time and effort that I can't really put in rn :v Well, maybe I could, but I want to let my schedule both online and IRL settle down a bit first.
Post by: Swordstar on October 06, 2016, 01:29:59 pm
Post by: Haspen on October 06, 2016, 01:31:12 pm
It would, yes.
Unfortunately that would require time and effort that I can't really put in rn :v Well, maybe I could, but I want to let my schedule both online and IRL settle down a bit first.
Either you effort and get your classes done or you don't effort and loiter aboot.
Yer choice v;
Post by: Chevaleresse on October 06, 2016, 01:34:05 pm
You should prolly stop pestering people to include non-playtested stuff in their full length games then just because we have no way of knowing how they'll actually come out which is a big risk with balance and everything. Maybe try and find someone willing to run a playtest?
it was supposed to be a joke, I don't expect anyone to actually use them untested.
Post by: UXLZ on October 06, 2016, 09:14:53 pm
You should prolly stop pestering people to include non-playtested stuff in their full length games then just because we have no way of knowing how they'll actually come out which is a big risk with balance and everything. Maybe try and find someone willing to run a playtest?
it was supposed to be a joke, I don't expect anyone to actually use them untested.
Even if it was a joke, it was still a reaction tester, don't think we aren't on to you. :x
It's like when people say "Hey, what if I asked you out?" to someone, and try to play it off as a joke.
Post by: Chevaleresse on October 06, 2016, 09:58:16 pm
tho as i mentioned in the irc, badgering someone else to run a test or two actually sounds good. I know Cript said something about doing it, anyone else interested?
Post by: UXLZ on October 06, 2016, 11:44:05 pm
Post by: Tiruin on October 07, 2016, 12:08:23 am
i have no idea what you meanIt's more like, "this made up most of what you've said" so even if it was a joke...what else do we have to go with? :<
Wasn't there a map creation tool? I'd swear there was one, but I can't find it.I think there is, but it's mostly personally made--Haspen uses mappy or paint.net; others uses...other programs.
I don't think there is a standard program people go by here (but I'd LOVE TO KNOW IF THERE IS ANY so I can use it in making muh maps x_x)
Post by: Chevaleresse on October 07, 2016, 12:17:02 am
Tone is hard on the internet >.> that was supposed to be sarcasm, i knew what you meanti have no idea what you meanIt's more like, "this made up most of what you've said" so even if it was a joke...what else do we have to go with? :<Wasn't there a map creation tool? I'd swear there was one, but I can't find it.I think there is, but it's mostly personally made--Haspen uses mappy or paint.net; others uses...other programs.
I don't think there is a standard program people go by here (but I'd LOVE TO KNOW IF THERE IS ANY so I can use it in making muh maps x_x)
edit: it's also just not having the physical/mental/temporal capacity to design and run balanced maps
Post by: UXLZ on October 07, 2016, 12:58:18 am
i have no idea what you meanIt's more like, "this made up most of what you've said" so even if it was a joke...what else do we have to go with? :<Wasn't there a map creation tool? I'd swear there was one, but I can't find it.I think there is, but it's mostly personally made--Haspen uses mappy or paint.net; others uses...other programs.
I don't think there is a standard program people go by here (but I'd LOVE TO KNOW IF THERE IS ANY so I can use it in making muh maps x_x)
Yeah, it was Tiled. Formido told me in the IRC.
Do we know if Glow ever released her custom tiles?
Post by: Tiruin on October 07, 2016, 01:06:53 am
Do we know if Glow ever released her custom tiles?Well it's more permission based because being still in contact with her over the IRC--she gave me permission to use her tiles (or tile technique art), but I'm unsure.
I should PM her there to ask o_O
Post by: UXLZ on October 07, 2016, 01:36:43 am
Post by: UXLZ on October 07, 2016, 01:46:21 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on October 07, 2016, 02:32:41 am
Post by: UXLZ on October 07, 2016, 02:34:42 am
Anyway, here's the beta version of a map for my campaign. Improvements? (https://s5.postimg.org/jh9659p87/Beta.png)
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on October 07, 2016, 02:44:48 am
Post by: UXLZ on October 07, 2016, 02:49:17 am
I don't see anything wrong with it from a technical standpoint and visually it's good (you don't often see castles with that much forest around them, but I would take that as a positive since it's underdone), but Haspen's made the most maps so he'd know best about how it would do concerning enemy placement and where defensive terrain should be and all that.
The idea is that this is a sort of inner-keep and the actual castle grounds are much, much larger, with forests and rivers and other buildings and stuff within them. Fire Emblem has basically no size scaling whatsoever (house being the same size as a chair, for instance) so it's hard to convey that sort of feeling.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on October 07, 2016, 02:57:47 am
Post by: UXLZ on October 07, 2016, 06:08:08 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Oh right, OOC-to-be (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=160991.0) for my FEF.
Post by: Felissan on October 07, 2016, 06:58:50 am
Anyway, here's the beta version of a map for my campaign. Improvements?I haven't played in any FEF yet, but I feel like that huge north-west room should have way less open terrain in it. It also looks like thieves will be kept out of the action for the whole chapter because the chests are a bit too far apart, unless they get some help breaking the walls from other players, and by the time they're done, they probably won't be able to catch up to the main group. Aside from that, it looks pretty good IMO.
Post by: Swordstar on October 07, 2016, 07:31:48 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on October 07, 2016, 08:06:12 am
Post by: UXLZ on October 07, 2016, 08:08:24 am
Only really major issue I have is that large maps can really suck (ask hasp). It's not a bad thing and the map itself looks good, just heads up maybe be careful how often you use maps that size especially when people are still trainee characters
Yeah, Hasp redesigned it for me in the OOC, thankfully. I'm fairly decent at making nice-looking maps, but I don't really know what to do for gameplay.
(https://s5.postimg.org/nnylyce7r/untitled.png)
Enemy placement is experimental.
Post by: UXLZ on October 07, 2016, 08:09:11 am
Anyway, here's the beta version of a map for my campaign. Improvements?I haven't played in any FEF yet, but I feel like that huge north-west room should have way less open terrain in it. It also looks like thieves will be kept out of the action for the whole chapter because the chests are a bit too far apart, unless they get some help breaking the walls from other players, and by the time they're done, they probably won't be able to catch up to the main group. Aside from that, it looks pretty good IMO.
That's a fair point. I may try to move a few chests closer to the boss room.
Post by: Solymr on October 07, 2016, 08:16:17 am
Opinions?
Post by: Haspen on October 07, 2016, 08:18:20 am
On an old note, it has been noted that Imbue Arrow is still useless, and the easy fix of making Imbue Arrow give free Ignis Character Skill to the Battle Mage has been suggested.
Opinions?
(http://i.imgur.com/SnIwFtR.gif)
EDIT: Is now in FEF6.
Post by: Swordstar on October 07, 2016, 08:31:38 am
On an old note, it has been noted that Imbue Arrow is still useless, and the easy fix of making Imbue Arrow give free Ignis Character Skill to the Battle Mage has been suggested.
Opinions?
Seems legit!
Also uxie, dunno if you're planning on adding more enemies to that or not but right now it's pretty sparse enemy wise which leads to lots of turns of just moving which tends to make people unhappy. For a big big map like that it might be better to make lots of low level enemies vs fewer harder enemies (See also the mistake I made last time in my game)
Post by: UXLZ on October 07, 2016, 09:45:40 am
On an old note, it has been noted that Imbue Arrow is still useless, and the easy fix of making Imbue Arrow give free Ignis Character Skill to the Battle Mage has been suggested.
Opinions?
Seems legit!
Also uxie, dunno if you're planning on adding more enemies to that or not but right now it's pretty sparse enemy wise which leads to lots of turns of just moving which tends to make people unhappy. For a big big map like that it might be better to make lots of low level enemies vs fewer harder enemies (See also the mistake I made last time in my game)
Hm, I tried adding a bunch more enemies. There are also supposed to be a few reinforcements.
Then again, since the party will probably be starting out with basically... Everyone, due to circumstances, it's probably best to have a huuuge number of enemies. As long as I don't overtune their stats it should be fine.
Post by: UXLZ on October 07, 2016, 10:07:47 am
(https://s5.postimg.org/kz3t8b8qf/untitled.png)
That look better? (Two horses at top of stairs are reinforcements.)
Post by: Swordstar on October 07, 2016, 10:10:09 am
Post by: UXLZ on October 07, 2016, 10:18:43 am
Post by: Chevaleresse on October 07, 2016, 11:45:52 am
Post by: Swordstar on October 07, 2016, 12:05:25 pm
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on October 07, 2016, 12:15:00 pm
Post by: Chevaleresse on October 07, 2016, 12:22:33 pm
As for triple promotes, I thought about doing a bit of reshuffling to make it work. The issue with first classes is there really aren't any worth adding due to most "new" classes being slightly different versions of existing ones in order to balance out the routes.
EDIT: That or trying to add a third First Class option for every promote, which would, uh. Not be super practical.
Post by: Swordstar on October 07, 2016, 12:30:22 pm
Also don't think anyone nixes that SM ability. +20 when attacking might work
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on October 07, 2016, 12:35:45 pm
As for First Classes, I don't see why you can't add new ones. If you can think of interesting Promoted Classes that are different from the existing ones, then I don't see why you can't do so for First Classes as well. Alternatively you can just shuffle promotions around. Some Promoted Classes could be changed so that they only promote from one class instead of two, allowing you to slot your new classes in. For example, Bandit promotes to Oni Chieftain instead of Berserker, Soldier to Basara instead of General, and Thief to Butler/Maid instead of Bounty Hunter (Or you could make Thief promote to Assassin instead of Spy and have Spy promote to Butler/Maid instead but eh). Mind you, that still leaves Kinshi/Malig Knight hanging in the balance so... Yeah. Not a perfect solution but I think it's a better one than triple promotes.
Post by: F.O.E. on October 07, 2016, 03:56:39 pm
For example, Bandit promotes to Oni Chieftain instead of Berserker
I'd suggest mountain warrior there since Berserker is an actually desired class :v
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on October 07, 2016, 04:00:21 pm
Post by: Chevaleresse on October 07, 2016, 04:33:43 pm
As far as reshuffling. . .
Oni Chieftan
-Bandit loses Berserker, gains Oni Chieftan
Basara
-Monk loses Bishop, gains Basara
-Soldier loses General, gains Basara
Kinshi Knight
-Pegasus Knight loses Valkyrie, gains Kinshi Knight
-Loses Amaterasu, gains Triangle Attack
Malig Knight
-Fighter loses Hero, gains Malig Knight
Maid/Butler
-Will probably just get its own promo line using Swordstar's ideas
Others
-Valkyrie loses Triangle Attack, gains Amaterasu
Also, potential class renames:
Oni Chieftan -> Dread Fighter (This worked better when it was a Fighter promote but w/e)
Basara -> Zealot or Templar (The Quixotic skill basically represents a very risky, over-the-top fighting style. I figure that this works flavor-wise.)
Kinshi Knight -> Pegasus Hunter (because they're a flying unit that chases down and kills other fliers. Depending on lore, though, they could keep the name Kinshi Knight if the world actually has giant birds for them to ride on.)
Malig Knight-> No change bc I love this name tbh.
Maid/Butler-> Not sure. Possibly Bodyguard or something but at the same time having maids running around is amusing.
Post by: Xanmyral on October 08, 2016, 01:54:18 pm
For example, Bandit promotes to Oni Chieftain instead of Berserker
I'd suggest mountain warrior there since Berserker is an actually desired class :v
OY
Just 'cause not everyone wants to chuck boulders like a man doesn't mean it isn't a desired class. I love that class.
Post by: UXLZ on October 09, 2016, 06:39:21 am
Post by: Solymr on October 10, 2016, 06:07:42 am
Post by: Chevaleresse on October 10, 2016, 07:37:50 am
Idea I just had: give Great Knight Nullify for either Armored or Horseback instead of War Horse and give Paladin War Horse instead of Nullify. Thoughts?why do you want to make moving around as a knight even more painful
Post by: Solymr on October 10, 2016, 07:54:58 am
Which GK aren't much if they have two categories of weapons effective against them v:
Post by: Chevaleresse on October 10, 2016, 08:47:57 am
Post by: Solymr on October 10, 2016, 09:07:14 am
Post by: Chevaleresse on October 10, 2016, 09:17:28 am
GK still has 7 MOV which is the same as Wyvern Knights/Hunters tho.wyverns can also, yknow, fly
but no, being able to actually attempt to traverse terrain is a big part of the value of the promote and i feel that War Horse is much more valuable than Nullify for them since you have teammates that can handle armorslayers and such for you. It also makes Paladins almost -too- mobile.
Edit: and does anyone have thoughts on my post above?
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on October 10, 2016, 09:25:54 am
Post by: Chevaleresse on October 11, 2016, 07:52:40 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on October 18, 2016, 09:03:31 pm
Spoiler: My other commission was finished! (click to show/hide)
Post by: birdy51 on October 18, 2016, 09:17:34 pm
Post by: Swordstar on October 18, 2016, 09:47:57 pm
Post by: Chevaleresse on October 18, 2016, 10:14:13 pm
Post by: Haspen on October 19, 2016, 02:22:03 am
-snip of neat-
How many more left, Blade? :P
Post by: UXLZ on October 19, 2016, 04:51:18 am
Oh right, you should probably add my game to the "active" list Sol.
OOC: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=160991.0
IC: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=161127.0
Post by: GiglameshDespair on October 19, 2016, 05:16:54 am
Post by: Haspen on October 19, 2016, 05:19:37 am
...are Sheila's legs suffering from frostbite? :P
Post by: UXLZ on October 19, 2016, 05:35:24 am
Post by: Haspen on October 19, 2016, 06:18:45 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on October 19, 2016, 06:43:10 am
-snip of neat-
How many more left, Blade? :P
That's gonna be it for a while, I think. I'm going to Youmacon in a few weeks and I should expect to spend some money there.
Post by: UXLZ on October 19, 2016, 06:44:11 am
How does sea and sky reflect... huh v:??
If you're in a bright red room with a white lightbulb, there's going to be stuff being tinted red. Concept.
Post by: Swordstar on October 19, 2016, 09:27:05 am
How does sea and sky reflect... huh v:??
If you're in a bright red room with a white lightbulb, there's going to be stuff being tinted red. Concept.
Yeah he tends to tint stuff slightly based on the other major colors to tie them in. Is why Niamh has slightly purple tinted hand
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on October 19, 2016, 12:24:37 pm
Post by: UXLZ on October 20, 2016, 02:05:16 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on October 20, 2016, 02:12:13 am
Post by: Shoruke on October 24, 2016, 01:20:28 pm
As in, how does one join a game without refreshing the FGaR forum every 15 minutes for a solid week? Every time a game opens up, it gets so many hits it says Signups Closed before I get home from work.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on October 24, 2016, 01:22:37 pm
And I dunno, keep an eye on this thread I guess? Usually there'll be a post announcing it here and then submissions tend to be open about a week.
Post by: Swordstar on October 24, 2016, 01:23:31 pm
Post by: Haspen on October 24, 2016, 01:25:57 pm
Every time a game opens up, it gets so many hits it says Signups Closed before I get home from work.
Yeah, there is a whole buncha addicts who camp all and every such thread, hard to beat them to it ;v!
Post by: Swordstar on October 24, 2016, 01:30:32 pm
Post by: Haspen on October 24, 2016, 01:31:24 pm
Post by: Swordstar on October 24, 2016, 01:45:29 pm
Post by: UXLZ on October 27, 2016, 09:11:00 pm
Uxie's game said signups closed I think from the inception of the thread.
And I dunno, keep an eye on this thread I guess? Usually there'll be a post announcing it here and then submissions tend to be open about a week.
Yeah, my game was opened into signups closed from the start because I was giving priority to members of my previous game that died. What few slots did open up were filled pretty much instantly by people I thought would make good additions to the game.
Post by: Chevaleresse on October 27, 2016, 09:24:52 pm
which reminds me i still need to process things for that
Post by: Swordstar on November 05, 2016, 07:41:42 pm
Post by: UXLZ on November 05, 2016, 10:13:23 pm
Heads up for everyone one, my computer is in the shop so I'm stuck on phone until further notice
=(
Post by: Swordstar on November 06, 2016, 12:12:43 am
Post by: UXLZ on November 06, 2016, 12:31:39 am
Post by: Haspen on November 06, 2016, 02:41:17 am
Where FOE at though? I can wait a bit but he really stretching it and he has characters in two of my games :T
Post by: Solymr on November 06, 2016, 05:46:58 am
Post by: Swordstar on November 06, 2016, 10:58:05 am
/me pokes Swordstar
Where FOE at though? I can wait a bit but he really stretching it and he has characters in two of my games :T
I have literally no idea. He has not responded to anything anywhere in three weeks
Post by: Haspen on November 06, 2016, 04:18:35 pm
Post by: Swordstar on November 06, 2016, 11:14:12 pm
Edit: ok yeah he's alive but... Not coming back.
http://m.imgur.com/a/gRBO5
From his sig
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on November 07, 2016, 12:18:43 am
I don't really expect you to read this F.O.E., in light of that, but it was fun. I'll welcome you back if your interest ever resurfaces.
Post by: Tiruin on November 07, 2016, 12:32:48 am
[snip]Hum, regardless of lacking contact--if ever anyone can give persistent support, please do so :O
Really sounds like sorting out life experiences, feelings, etc. Wishing him loads though, because I've met a lot of people that went through that in what seemed like ultimatums of their lives but were more 'steps in a direction of understanding things'.
And thankies Swordstar for all that. c: FoE is an awesome dude.
Post by: UXLZ on November 07, 2016, 12:36:54 am
Well, RIP I guess. One more person for me to miss aside from Glowcat.
Post by: Haspen on November 07, 2016, 01:40:14 am
Like I said, post for his characters in FEF4 and FEF6 for current chapters and then I bump them out ;v
Post by: Tiruin on November 07, 2016, 01:42:49 am
Well, RIP I guess. One more person for me to miss aside from Glowcat.Glowcat is pretty much alive and active really :P She's on the #bay12lb IRC. (She's not active on the forums that much because of /certain people characteristics/ and stuff that are personal, none of which are tied to anyone here or anyone in general here on the forum)
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 07, 2016, 01:59:22 am
Well, there we go, I guess.
I guess I'll have to think on whether I drop fef4 as well, because a yandere assassin kind of needs their focus of love.
Post by: UXLZ on November 07, 2016, 02:06:33 am
Huh.
Well, there we go, I guess.
I guess I'll have to think on whether I drop fef4 as well, because a yandere assassin kind of needs their focus of love.
RIP FEF4, too, potentially. =(
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on November 07, 2016, 02:07:24 am
No don't, that's a bad idea.
Yes, yes it is. More seriously though, I'd understand if you did want to drop, and I'm speaking up mainly because our characters are relevant to each other. All the same, I guess Ayzebel just grabbing Irios and refusing to go home to the sect makes sense too.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 07, 2016, 02:31:33 am
Also, truly rip CI
Goodbye spooder, you were the best
(http://i.imgur.com/x8ElQlw.png)
Post by: Solymr on November 07, 2016, 05:32:06 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 07, 2016, 07:21:10 am
Welp, the curse of the FH shamans is real.True.
Therefore it is Solymr's fault.
Post by: Swordstar on November 07, 2016, 08:22:49 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on November 07, 2016, 08:23:54 am
Post by: darkpaladin109 on November 07, 2016, 09:25:16 am
Post by: Sirus on November 07, 2016, 11:35:15 am
So long and best of luck wherever you go, FOE.
Post by: birdy51 on November 07, 2016, 12:00:50 pm
Post by: Haspen on November 07, 2016, 12:39:25 pm
RIP FEF4, too, potentially. =(
Considering postman job is more demanding than I thought, I might indeed have to axe FEF4, or FEF3, or both v;
Post by: Solymr on November 08, 2016, 02:01:25 pm
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=161308.0
Post by: Haspen on November 08, 2016, 02:10:58 pm
Post by: Solymr on November 08, 2016, 02:13:47 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 12, 2016, 01:10:22 pm
Some kind of spellcaster preferred.
It's still not first come first serve, of course, since blargh to that.
You have until the end of this map to get a sheet in.
Post by: Shoruke on December 05, 2016, 11:47:14 am
"Do you find making turns to be annoyingly time-consuming, even for turns containing only straightforward actions?"
What with all the calculations and making new screenshots and posting and updating all dat HP info and stuff.
If there's enough demand for it, I'm kinda sorta considering making an FEF helper program as a project. You would use it to...
Make and save maps,
move characters around those maps easily and view their movement range dynamically,
quickly generate text for basic attacks, formatted specifically for the B12 forum,
and you'd be able to upload a save file and hand it to players so they can also all see their movement ranges.
(and if you don't want players knowing all of their possible hit rates like in normal FE for some reason, just don't upload the file)
If the visual stuff isn't necessary, it would go a lot faster to make a program where you just put in all of the combatants, click two of them, and have it generate attack text for you.
It'd be free of charge, of course. At worst, I might host it on a site that generates me ad revenue and has one of those Paypal donate buttons. ;)
Any interest?
Post by: Parsely on December 05, 2016, 12:08:20 pm
If the visual stuff isn't necessary, it would go a lot faster to make a program where you just put in all of the combatants, click two of them, and have it generate attack text for you.I kind of started doing this, then stopped. There was some interest. It was very challenging and other programmers didn't know enough about the game or the project to be able to help me very well. I don't think the solutions I had in mind were the most ideal either. I still want to finish it.
Post by: Haspen on December 05, 2016, 12:16:02 pm
Making turns is very time-consuming. Even just few actions demand calculations v:
And gods forbid if there's a level up to do afterwards xv
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on December 05, 2016, 12:37:53 pm
Also, I have some old design documents for such a program if you'd like to see them.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 05, 2016, 01:05:19 pm
So good luck :P
Post by: Twinwolf on December 05, 2016, 03:04:24 pm
((I've had ideas but not time nor experience with the system))
Post by: Shoruke on December 05, 2016, 03:43:55 pm
I've got another project I want to finish first, not to mention school (finals) and work, so we're looking at... eh, roughly a month before I have anything to hand out.
Still, keep checking back here!
I'll be handing it out in increments. First it'll be basically a level-up calculator, then an attack simulator and item database, then the map stuff.
Also, I have some old design documents for such a program if you'd like to see them.Couldn't hurt.
Post by: IronyOwl on December 05, 2016, 04:41:28 pm
What was challenging about it? It's just a few calculations plus an RNG, right?If the visual stuff isn't necessary, it would go a lot faster to make a program where you just put in all of the combatants, click two of them, and have it generate attack text for you.I kind of started doing this, then stopped. There was some interest. It was very challenging and other programmers didn't know enough about the game or the project to be able to help me very well. I don't think the solutions I had in mind were the most ideal either. I still want to finish it.
...plus four hundred situational special abilities, but still.
Post by: Parsely on December 05, 2016, 11:50:38 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
What was challenging about it? It's just a few calculations plus an RNG, right?The bolded section was the biggest problem I could foresee, since there are a fucking gazillion classes and skills each with their own special modifiers, some of which can't be quantified programmatically and would require check boxes for the player to tick, like Charisma (keep in mind I was making a FEF calculator that did not involve a map, so testing for a nearby character who has Charisma is a test that can't be made without hard input). Not to mention houseruling is a huge thing and if players have skills that aren't in vanilla FEF they would need to be coded and imported into the program.
...plus four hundred situational special abilities, but still.
E: Then there's fucking weapons. No one is going to use this thing if they have to punch in all the weapon stat numbers every single time, and again, people love inventing their own weapons, classes, skills, etc. It's part of the fun. The best solution as figured by BMM42 is some kind of import/export system that lets you upload a file and all the stats pop in for you, but I have no clue how to implement that.
Let me break down how a FEF combat works programmatically:
First you need to test to make sure the person using the calculator actually filled out all the fields.
Then you need to test for the class and sometimes compare it to another class to determine a modifier, like Archer versus Flier bonus.
Now we get to the actual combat test:
Code: [Select]
Check to see if the 1-100 was less than or equal to Character A's weapon's hit minus the opponent's evasion.
Hit = True: Okay so you hit. You can't just display a message that says you hit unless we want to implement breakpoints so the player can see the results after every step,
but we're keeping things simple for now so instead we add the "you hit" string to the results variable until we're done doing checks. Now we have to see if you crit or not.
See if 1-100 is <= CharA's crit minus CharB's dodge.
Crit = True: You crit. Display a message that says you crit. Now calculate attack given a critical hit scenario and subtract it from the enemy's [i]current [/i]health.
We're not done yet, we need to see if there was a double attack. Test if CharA's attack skill minus 4 is >= CharB's attack skill.
Double = True: Do all that stuff you just did again... But wait!
Don't forget that now when the loop ends you need to test the enemy's [i]current[/i] health against his [i]maximum [/i]health to see if he died or not.
If he died, add the appropriate string to the results variable.
Double = False: Test to see if the bad guy's dead and display the appropriate message.
Crit = False: You didn't crit. Just calculate attack and see if the guy's dead or not, then display the appropriate message.
False: Character A missed, display the appropriate message.This is what things looked like at first. Then I remembered counterattacks. Fuck. Counterattacks.
So now the above block of code becomes a lot more complicated, because counterattacks can happen at any stage where the first character's test ends.
Code: [Select]
Check for hit
Hit = True, check for crit
Crit = True, check for double
Double = True, END
Double = False, END
Crit = False, END
Hit = False, ENDThere's all kinds of bullshit about turn order that I don't remember because I stopped working on this so long ago but IIRC there are a bunch of different possibilities for the order in which the combat can turn out depending on doubles and counterattacks (A = char A attack test; B = char B attack test):
A
A A
A B
A A B
A B A
A B B
A A B B
A B A B
All of these possibilities need to be nested within each other and I didn't build myself a simple way to test it. The best way probably would have been some preset buttons that input character/weapon stats that I knew would produce each possibility so I could test to make sure what was supposed to happen, did indeed happen.
This shitty mechanic turned a simple test into a big mess of spaghetti code that is really really hard to decipher and even now I still don't like looking at it. So yeah, while the maths are easy, the logic isn't, especially for me, someone who does not play FEF. I needed constant support from frequent players in order to interpret the rules correctly and identify edge cases so I could try and code this thing with future problems in mind so I'd only have to build it once. In hindsight, and due to the rubber duck effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debugging) (and also because I'm just a more experienced programmer now), I can think of some ways I could work around these problems. I would've finished it but school started and I no longer had the time.
@Shoruke: No point in starting from scratch, right? How about a collaboration?
Post by: IronyOwl on December 06, 2016, 02:39:24 am
Having thought about and fiddled with this some, I feel like you'd probably want to have a base statline, and then a that-combat statline that goes through a bunch of checks based on values or checkboxes, each of which has its own statline that gets added to the current one if true. So for example, the Heretic: +2 DMG vs Priests skill would be a "Enemy Is Priest" checkbox that, when set, adds the first skill statline to the current combat one, in this case being +2 to Dmg or Mt or whatever and 0 to everything else. Being on the wrong end of a weapon triangle would similarly have a stat line of -15 Hit and -1 Dmg, triggered when... well, there's probably a more elegant method than if sword and enemy lance OR if axe and enemy sword OR if lance and enemy sword OR if anima and enemy dark OR if light and enemy anima OR if dark and enemy light... but it'll do.What was challenging about it? It's just a few calculations plus an RNG, right?The bolded section was the biggest problem I could foresee, since there are a fucking gazillion classes and skills each with their own special modifiers, some of which can't be quantified programmatically and would require check boxes for the player to tick, like Charisma (keep in mind I was making a FEF calculator that did not involve a map, so testing for a nearby character who has Charisma is a test that can't be made without hard input). Not to mention houseruling is a huge thing and if players have skills that aren't in vanilla FEF they would need to be coded and imported into the program.
...plus four hundred situational special abilities, but still.
E: Then there's fucking weapons. No one is going to use this thing if they have to punch in all the weapon stat numbers every single time, and again, people love inventing their own weapons, classes, skills, etc. It's part of the fun. The best solution as figured by BMM42 is some kind of import/export system that lets you upload a file and all the stats pop in for you, but I have no clue how to implement that.
I don't think having persistent custom files is avoidable, frankly. You could punch in everyone's stats every time, but at that point it'd probably be more tedious than just rolling it yourself. I'm not familiar with HTML or Javascript, but a cursory glance doesn't inspire confidence that they have any file-reading capability beyond displaying images. You might want to consider shifting languages/to something that sits in a folder on your computer.
Let me break down how a FEF combat works programmatically:As mentioned, I'm not familiar with the language, so pardon if I suggest something impossible. But successive statlines solve most of this in terms of sphagettiness, if not tedium. If your IsArcher is true and their IsFlyer is true, your damage is multiplied by 3.
First you need to test to make sure the person using the calculator actually filled out all the fields.
Then you need to test for the class and sometimes compare it to another class to determine a modifier, like Archer versus Flier bonus.
Now we get to the actual combat test:Code: [Select]Check to see if the 1-100 was less than or equal to Character A's weapon's hit minus the opponent's evasion.
Hit = True: Okay so you hit. You can't just display a message that says you hit unless we want to implement breakpoints so the player can see the results after every step,
but we're keeping things simple for now so instead we add the "you hit" string to the results variable until we're done doing checks. Now we have to see if you crit or not.
See if 1-100 is <= CharA's crit minus CharB's dodge.
Crit = True: You crit. Display a message that says you crit. Now calculate attack given a critical hit scenario and subtract it from the enemy's [i]current [/i]health.
We're not done yet, we need to see if there was a double attack. Test if CharA's attack skill minus 4 is >= CharB's attack skill.
Double = True: Do all that stuff you just did again... But wait!
Don't forget that now when the loop ends you need to test the enemy's [i]current[/i] health against his [i]maximum [/i]health to see if he died or not.
If he died, add the appropriate string to the results variable.
Double = False: Test to see if the bad guy's dead and display the appropriate message.
Crit = False: You didn't crit. Just calculate attack and see if the guy's dead or not, then display the appropriate message.
False: Character A missed, display the appropriate message.
This is what things looked like at first. Then I remembered counterattacks. Fuck. Counterattacks.
So now the above block of code becomes a lot more complicated, because counterattacks can happen at any stage where the first character's test ends.Code: [Select]Check for hit
Hit = True, check for crit
Crit = True, check for double
Double = True, END
Double = False, END
Crit = False, END
Hit = False, END
There's all kinds of bullshit about turn order that I don't remember because I stopped working on this so long ago but IIRC there are a bunch of different possibilities for the order in which the combat can turn out depending on doubles and counterattacks (A = char A attack test; B = char B attack test):
A
A A
A B
A A B
A B A
A B B
A A B B
A B A B
All of these possibilities need to be nested within each other and I didn't build myself a simple way to test it. The best way probably would have been some preset buttons that input character/weapon stats that I knew would produce each possibility so I could test to make sure what was supposed to happen, did indeed happen.
For counters and doubling, a number of attacks field sounds convenient, especially since distinguishing between an attack the enemy is able to counter against and a "free" attack is important. Then you just put the attacker attacks defender part first and the defender retaliates second in a loop.
A = your Attacks is 1, theirs is 0; your attack cycle executes, theirs notes that a value of 0 means skip everything, the loop repeats, both attacks have an Attacks of 0 and thus do nothing
AA = your Attacks is 2, so you attack, they try to counter but nothing happens, you attack again, they try to attack again but nothing happens again
AB = both Attacks are at 1, you go then they go
and so on. AABB or countering before an enemy attacks you doesn't happen, does it? That'd be inconvenient if so.
This shitty mechanic turned a simple test into a big mess of spaghetti code that is really really hard to decipher and even now I still don't like looking at it. So yeah, while the maths are easy, the logic isn't, especially for me, someone who does not play FEF. I needed constant support from frequent players in order to interpret the rules correctly and identify edge cases so I could try and code this thing with future problems in mind so I'd only have to build it once. In hindsight, and due to the rubber duck effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debugging) (and also because I'm just a more experienced programmer now), I can think of some ways I could work around these problems. I would've finished it but school started and I no longer had the time.I could use the practice, count me in too.
@Shoruke: No point in starting from scratch, right? How about a collaboration?
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on December 06, 2016, 03:43:13 am
1
E
5
4
80
5
40
Which would represent range, rank, might, weight, hit rate, crit rate, and quality level. Then in the main program you'd have, say, a menu of sort sort where you can load the text file and it applies all the numbers automatically? The GM would still have to manually keep up with quality levels, I suppose, but it's an idea. I have no programming experience beyond messing with RPGMaker 2K a little back when that first came out so if that's a lot harder than I think it sounds, sorry.
Post by: Haspen on December 06, 2016, 04:13:34 am
No one has ever succeeded in making a FEF calculator!
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 06, 2016, 05:04:57 am
A = your Attacks is 1, theirs is 0; your attack cycle executes, theirs notes that a value of 0 means skip everything, the loop repeats, both attacks have an Attacks of 0 and thus do nothing
AA = your Attacks is 2, so you attack, they try to counter but nothing happens, you attack again, they try to attack again but nothing happens again
AB = both Attacks are at 1, you go then they go
and so on. AABB or countering before an enemy attacks you doesn't happen, does it? That'd be inconvenient if so.
With the right Character Specific Skill, if B has more spd than A, B can attack before A can, even when A initiates combat.
Fef: it's a silly system.
Post by: Solymr on December 06, 2016, 05:34:45 am
Post by: IronyOwl on December 06, 2016, 07:42:26 am
Being this is Bay12, would I be remiss in maybe suggesting basing it off of how Dwarf Fortress handles modding? Say, have a folder titled 'Weapons' and then inside the folder is, say, reiterpallasch.txt. The text file would have numbers like this:This is more or less what I was thinking, but also how the program would store characters and such so you don't have to re-enter Charles the Cavalier or Mook Bandit A every time you want to use them. And, for that matter, the program could track QL and current/max HP and such.
1
E
5
4
80
5
40
Which would represent range, rank, might, weight, hit rate, crit rate, and quality level. Then in the main program you'd have, say, a menu of sort sort where you can load the text file and it applies all the numbers automatically? The GM would still have to manually keep up with quality levels, I suppose, but it's an idea. I have no programming experience beyond messing with RPGMaker 2K a little back when that first came out so if that's a lot harder than I think it sounds, sorry.
No one has ever succeeded in making a FEF calculator!THEN I SHALL BE THE FIRST!!!
With the right Character Specific Skill, if B has more spd than A, B can attack before A can, even when A initiates combat.Damn it. Fiddly crap like this isn't impossible to code, but it starts to eat into UI readability and lead to weird design choices to handle really rare scenarios.
Fef: it's a silly system.
At this point people would need to code their own FE game just to get a few lines of text.Depending on how much you use it, that might not be such a bad tradeoff. I'm keenly aware that ease of use is vitally important, though.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on December 06, 2016, 10:04:32 am
Damn it. Fiddly crap like this isn't impossible to code, but it starts to eat into UI readability and lead to weird design choices to handle really rare scenarios.
I don't see how it'd eat into UI readability. You'd have the standard stats/whatever shared by all of the different units and then a text field underneath to display their special abilities and a short description of what they do. Given the sheer number of abilities in the game I see it being more effective than any list of checkboxes/whatever.
As for deciding combat order, you pretty much need a Finite State Machine and a bunch of bits to keep track of which abilities just triggered and so on and so forth. Not much we can do about that, unfortunately. At least it'd make calculating the actual combat a breeze once we sort that out since it just gets tacked onto the end.
I have never touched Javascript in my life, but by the sounds of things a FeF Calculator needs to be running as an actual program. A lot of the quality of life features needed to get this working effectively call for abilities that Javascript has trouble implimenting. Though you'd still need to modify the source code what with everyone's desire to modify/create abilities specifically for their game. Such is life.
Post by: Parsely on December 06, 2016, 11:11:41 am
So I just need to learn to use JSON.
Post by: Shoruke on December 06, 2016, 04:30:10 pm
No one has ever succeeded in making a FEF calculator!Well SOMEONE programmed Fire Emblem, didn't they?
Allow me to address some of the programming concerns that have come up.
I made it using HTML and Javascript.
So I just need to learn to use JSON.
I have never touched Javascript in my life
I'm not familiar with HTML or Javascript,Javascript (and HTML) are intended for use in webpages, and were designed with that in mind. While GMs will necessarily have an internet browser open to read posted actions and then post turn results, this calculator will work better as an application than a webpage, mostly since web pages aren't great at reading files from disk.
Processing (https://processing.org/) is my usual language of choice, but considering how much I expect to rely on drop boxes and check boxes, I think C# would be a better choice since it natively supports those.
Then I remembered counterattacks. Fuck. Counterattacks.Turn order in combat is admittedly nontrivial, but it's not so bad. There's no need to nest everything at each step.
- first up, calculate how many attacks each the attacker and defender have by comparing their Attack Skill scores.
- if the defender triggers vantage, they attack first. Otherwise, the attacker attacks first
- the attacker and defender take turns attacking if they have an attack left. When everybody is out, done.
If at any step anyone died, just stop running checks because it's over.
If at any step someone's weapon broke, their remaining number of attacks is set to 0.
For each attack, if that person has a Brave weapon or something that lets them strike twice, they strike twice.
...plus four hundred situational special abilities, but still.Yeah, that's kinda the big one.
I still think it's possible, with the combined powers of user-created content and... check boxes.
In addition to the skills in the PHB, we'll need to let the user (a.k.a. the GMs) add new skills to the list of All Skills That Exist. (This is how Personal Skills get done.) When you create characters, you can assign them the new skills. Of course, only numerical skills can be added this way. Skills can be defined as conditional or unconditional.
When you go to calculate an exchange of attacks, you pick the attacker and defender, and all of their conditional skills will be listed as check boxes. It'll be up to the GM to know/calculate whether a conditional skill activates or not. (I can probably make it so that you can set an "activation rate" based on stats or flat percentages, too. It'll probably involve a custom mark-up language.)
As for house-ruled skills or custom skills that change game mechanics instead of just numbers, well, sorry, the program isn't designed for that. You'll have to add it as a text-only skill and figure it out manually, just like you would do if the calculator didn't exist at all.
So for example if you wanted to add some skills from Fire Emblem Awakening, you could add Prescience (+10 hit/avoid when defending), but not Lethality (instant death attack).
Being this is Bay12, would I be remiss in maybe suggesting basing it off of how Dwarf Fortress handles modding?
This is more or less what I was thinking, but also how the program would store characters and such so you don't have to re-enter Charles the Cavalier or Mook Bandit A every time you want to use them. And, for that matter, the program could track QL and current/max HP and such.
I don't think having persistent custom files is avoidable, frankly. You could punch in everyone's stats every time, but at that point it'd probably be more tedious than just rolling it yourself.Reading from and writing to file aren't hard. One file for player characters, one for enemies, one for skills, and one for items/weapons.
It'll probably be .csv files so you can mod it in notepad.exe or a spreadsheet editor if you're so inclined.
EDIT: and yes, you'll be able to quickly copy NPCs.
No point in starting from scratch, right? How about a collaboration?
I could use the practice, count me in too.With the other stuff I have going on, we're looking at a few weeks minimum before I even really start on this. With that said, I'm okay with working with others, assuming y'all write legible code and lots of comments :P
Although it would mean we'd want to look into the wonderful world of version control. [sarcasm] yay...
Post by: I_Like_Pi on January 06, 2017, 07:19:59 pm
Post by: Twinwolf on January 06, 2017, 07:22:40 pm
Post by: Haspen on January 07, 2017, 04:40:49 am
What dreamland do you live in, mister :P
Post by: Twinwolf on January 07, 2017, 08:21:36 am
Post by: Haspen on January 07, 2017, 08:24:15 am
v:
You feelin' smart for nitpicking huh how aboot I jinx Alissa's rolls even more huh what aboot then |v
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on January 07, 2017, 08:27:52 am
If someone has the time and drive, I would strongly encourage them to start a new game to breathe a bit of life back into FEF, because it needs it bad.
Post by: Haspen on January 07, 2017, 08:30:23 am
I won't be surprised if I hear that someone wanted to but decided not to host a game because it was too gargantuan of a task ;v
Post by: Twinwolf on January 07, 2017, 08:35:49 am
Post by: Haspen on January 07, 2017, 08:39:15 am
Yeah, I kinda do want too, main reason I haven't is the time investment (and lack of plot ideas -_-;). Maybe once summer break starts for me, but that's a few months down the line.
Pls, FEF1 was about bundle of mercenaries vs evil noblewoman gathering macguffins. You don't need much more than that really :P
Post by: Solymr on January 07, 2017, 08:55:30 am
I also had to update it through a phone and during the last year of my graduate so it's definitely possible to do.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 07, 2017, 09:38:18 am
Haspen does have a point though. New FEFs are few and far between lately, and we aren't seeing many active games. Three have completed, a handful are in progress, but I wanna say we're approaching 20 or so games that are dead, formally or otherwise.Well, you could always reboot vrfef... :P
If someone has the time and drive, I would strongly encourage them to start a new game to breathe a bit of life back into FEF, because it needs it bad.
To be honest, I'm not sure I'd run another fef. The system itself isn't the best, and it only takes one absent player out of many to hold up everything.
Also pls no more mercenary protagonist groups. That's been done a couple of times already.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on January 07, 2017, 09:41:06 am
Post by: Twinwolf on January 07, 2017, 09:42:31 am
Wasn't someone running a game on another forum? I wonder how that's getting along.They are, and it's going well. They're around level 10 now, and there's now a second game being run by two people.
Post by: Swordstar on January 07, 2017, 02:13:55 pm
Post by: Haspen on January 07, 2017, 03:22:51 pm
I've just been so drained and busy from work that I can't even really begin to think about running my game again. So uh... yeah. Prolly better to just officially declare it dead at this point
/me goes update TVTropes.
Wasn't someone running a game on another forum? I wonder how that's getting along.They are, and it's going well. They're around level 10 now, and there's now a second game being run by two people.
Yeah Pyon doesn't come here often but his games are going steady on that forum :Y
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 07, 2017, 03:30:53 pm
Post by: Haspen on January 07, 2017, 03:42:29 pm
No place on list without at least 2 chapters :v
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 07, 2017, 03:50:52 pm
Post by: Solymr on January 07, 2017, 04:05:14 pm
A group of guards (the players) investigate a small crime in a big city and uncover a hueg conspiracy or something like that.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 07, 2017, 04:07:10 pm
Post by: IronyOwl on January 07, 2017, 05:53:52 pm
And that someone who had actually started on an FEF tool finished it. :P If I had both of those things I might try to run one, it's not like I don't have ideas and time.We're working on it! GUNIN's working on it. I'm mostly staring at his javascript without comprehending how that loads character files.
Post by: Sirus on January 08, 2017, 09:24:22 am
Post by: Solymr on January 08, 2017, 09:50:02 am
Post by: Parsely on January 08, 2017, 12:16:13 pm
Work started in early December, 2016? Perhaps a little bit before? It was based on work I had done months prior on a FEF website that I made for a school project, which was supposed to include a working calculator that could run FEF battles. After several weeks of work, it was in a testable state but was nowhere near complete enough to be used as a tool for playing the game.
This guy right here is the big breakthrough lately. At first I was thinking we'd need to actually do some kind of file upload system but now it's looking like I could make things entirely based in a single HTML page.
Code: [Select]
// set up character stat arrays
function setCharStats(charSheet) { // the charSheet argument should be the ID of the input box that receives the pasted character sheet
var reg = new RegExp(/\d{1,3}(?![\d%]))/gm); // regular expression that parses the integers out and ignores stat growth percentages by detecting '%' signs following integers
var str = document.getElementById(charSheet).value; // when you instantiate a new setCharStats make sure the charSheet argument is closed in single quotes, ex. setCharStats('input1')
var res = str.match(reg);
// create methods for character stats to improve readability later on!
this.health = res[0];
this.strength = res[1];
this.magic = res[2];
this.skill = res[3];
this.constitution = res[4];
this.aid = res[5];
this.luck = res[6];
this.defence = res[7];
this.resistance = res[8];
this.speed = res[9];
this.move = res[10]; // move might not be needed now but there's no reason not to define it
// create methods for weapon stats
this.attack = res[11];
this.hit = res[12];
this.attackSkill = res[13];
this.evasion = res[14];
this.critical = res[15];
this.dodge = res[16];
}It turns a text input into an array containing just the values I need in order to operate, then assigns them to intuitive sounding methods that I can call later when I need the stat. Basically you plug in your Current Stats and the Battle Stats of the weapon a character is using, and it automatically plugs those numbers into the calculator.
In order for your input to work correctly:
1. All of the values must be filled in. If a stat isn't used, it needs to be a 0, not a - and not blank, otherwise it skips that stat and all the stats below it will fill in the gap. It also cannot have any extraneous values other than growth percentages for character stats.
2. You must post Current Stats, THEN Battle Stats, otherwise AT is going to be used for HP calculations, Hit will be used for Strength calculations, and so on.
3. If you include growth percentages for Current Stats, they must be followed by a percent sign! The regular expression I used grabs all integers, EXCEPT those followed by percent symbols.
Spoiler: Valid Inputs (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Invalid Input (click to show/hide)
I could probably develop more foolproof logic that accounts for some of these mistakes but right now, I think it's simple enough to move on so I can actually get this thing into a testable state.
Here's a working example I developed:
http://www.w3schools.com/code/tryit.asp?filename=FBJPMJI6PBI6
Try changing the stat values in the input box, then hitting the Create button to see the array change.
Later on, I can probably use this framework I've developed in order to spit out formatted character sheets.
TL;DR: When the calculator is finished running battles will be as simple as copying text from character sheets and dumping them into text boxes, then pushing a button.
Post by: Solymr on January 08, 2017, 01:13:19 pm
Post by: Parsely on January 08, 2017, 05:37:24 pm
If I'm not mistaken you could use that regex with a small variation to get the progression values to include a level roll function, right?I sure could. The same expression that excludes the growth rates can be modified to grab them.
Post by: I_Like_Pi on January 12, 2017, 01:44:44 am
Here's the World Map (http://i.imgur.com/zDxwoxD.png) and the current LORE (http://pastebin.com/Q2uyaCA9).
Additionally, it will be based on 1.3, probably with most of Haspen's changes from FEF6.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 12, 2017, 02:42:11 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 12, 2017, 03:28:26 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 12, 2017, 03:31:51 am
Post by: I_Like_Pi on January 12, 2017, 03:50:25 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 12, 2017, 03:56:30 am
Post by: Felissan on January 12, 2017, 04:30:35 am
What kind of player count are you aiming for?
Post by: Twinwolf on January 12, 2017, 06:43:13 am
Post by: Sirus on January 12, 2017, 09:06:34 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 12, 2017, 09:44:53 am
Also your link to the World Map links to a image of a small battlefield and not a world map, just so you know. :P
Post by: Shoruke on January 12, 2017, 10:56:27 am
(now should I play Scavenger, Pegasus Knight, or Myrmidon... choices, choices...)
Post by: Felissan on January 12, 2017, 11:28:00 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 12, 2017, 11:28:42 am
Post by: Solymr on January 12, 2017, 11:40:15 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 12, 2017, 11:42:46 am
Post by: Solymr on January 12, 2017, 11:52:07 am
And I will put even *less* effort into it
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 12, 2017, 11:59:05 am
Post by: Solymr on January 12, 2017, 12:02:53 pm
In fact Ima start the OOC in the next moments and start recruiting.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 12, 2017, 12:04:11 pm
Post by: Haspen on January 12, 2017, 12:05:21 pm
I'll probably at least check the OOC thread and contemplate putting a character sheet together.
If anything - RECYCLE! RECYCLE IS NEW EMBLEM \o/
/me can always bring back Andala. 3rd time's the charm!
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 12, 2017, 12:10:21 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on January 12, 2017, 12:21:03 pm
Post by: I_Like_Pi on January 12, 2017, 12:23:49 pm
Count me interested too. I still couldn't get to play in a single FEF. I often get analysis paralysis from forum games, but hopefully the cooperative format will help me out with that.
What kind of player count are you aiming for?
Probably around 10-11.
So what will the players be?
At least the starting 4 will be people called together by one of Ludoh's more prominent mages to help them prepare to leave/escort them.
Well, I have a mug and a general idea for the character.
Also your link to the World Map links to a image of a small battlefield and not a world map, just so you know. :P
Fixed. (http://i.imgur.com/zDxwoxD.png)
Post by: Solymr on January 12, 2017, 12:28:52 pm
Honk, my game is ready to start. I don't have anything ready :v
Post by: Swordstar on January 12, 2017, 12:35:43 pm
Post by: Haspen on January 12, 2017, 12:37:06 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 12, 2017, 12:58:56 pm
No, don't. Recycling characters kills Emblems. Broken Circle had Ashlyssa and Jasmine and it died before it even got one chapter. :V
Yeah, those are cursed characters.
On my side, however, I doubt I'll make a new mug for it.
Could reuse Shilleka, or maybe Chalco.
Ghaminia, perhaps...
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 12, 2017, 03:08:40 pm
Spoiler: Dale Barton (click to show/hide)
Post by: Swordstar on January 12, 2017, 09:51:49 pm
Post by: Twinwolf on January 12, 2017, 09:53:47 pm
Post by: Swordstar on January 12, 2017, 09:54:13 pm
Post by: S34N1C on January 12, 2017, 09:54:30 pm
Post by: Twinwolf on January 12, 2017, 09:55:52 pm
Think BMM was planning on knight ftrWell, then that's where the "or maybe a Myrmidon" part comes in :P
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on January 12, 2017, 10:01:24 pm
Post by: Twinwolf on January 12, 2017, 10:02:33 pm
(And it doesn't have to be a Knight, could be a Soldier>Sentinel wahl instead for variety)
Post by: Swordstar on January 12, 2017, 10:05:15 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on January 12, 2017, 10:07:03 pm
Post by: Swordstar on January 12, 2017, 10:33:59 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Powder Miner on January 12, 2017, 10:35:53 pm
The first FEF kind of did it too, with Gregor and Alexander. Not to say it wouldn't be fun to do again though.8)
Post by: I_Like_Pi on January 13, 2017, 02:08:59 am
Post by: Sirus on January 13, 2017, 07:36:31 am
8)The first FEF kind of did it too, with Gregor and Alexander. Not to say it wouldn't be fun to do again though.8)
Post by: Taricus on January 13, 2017, 08:08:03 am
Post by: AbstractTraitorHero on January 13, 2017, 01:36:14 pm
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59151152/Zips/ATHFighter.zip
Post by: S34N1C on January 14, 2017, 12:09:47 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 14, 2017, 12:56:44 am
Post by: S34N1C on January 14, 2017, 08:34:41 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 14, 2017, 10:02:42 am
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59151152/Work/NickLendel.png) (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59151152/Zips/NickLendel.zip)
Post by: Haspen on January 14, 2017, 10:26:07 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 14, 2017, 10:28:50 am
Post by: S34N1C on January 14, 2017, 10:39:35 am
Post by: Haspen on January 14, 2017, 10:59:00 am
Might wanna tell that to the original artists and not me Hasp. :P Only thing I did to the collar was put a little bit of hair over the back of it, and I made sure to darken the area it would have fallen over. Oh, and recolor it. That's it though.
No I mean the cheek is total white with no orange shades where it meets with collar, and das jarring ;v
Post by: Swordstar on January 14, 2017, 12:17:22 pm
Might wanna tell that to the original artists and not me Hasp. :P Only thing I did to the collar was put a little bit of hair over the back of it, and I made sure to darken the area it would have fallen over. Oh, and recolor it. That's it though.
No I mean the cheek is total white with no orange shades where it meets with collar, and das jarring ;v
Yeah, Hasp is right. There should be some shading where the collar is casting a shadow on the face. Just something subtle, not anything major to ease the transition
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 14, 2017, 02:07:18 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 14, 2017, 02:19:50 pm
Post by: Sirus on January 14, 2017, 02:21:24 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 14, 2017, 02:21:42 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 14, 2017, 02:22:59 pm
At all.
Ever.
Post by: IronyOwl on January 15, 2017, 10:46:25 am
Long story short, it's code, so it's simultaneously almost finished and nowhere near finished. Most of the core logic is done or at least patterned out, and we're repurposing GUNINANRUNIN's old calculator's shell so it looks fabulous.
At present, the calculator functions off of copy+pasted JSON arrays. Those aren't actual words unless you're familiar with them, so it's time for pictures.
Spoiler: Exhibit A (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Exhibit B (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Exhibit C (click to show/hide)
So why the first two hoops? To conveniently store characters. GUNIN's previous method of parsing out pastebin data was brilliant, but suffered from a few major headaches. JSON text can be converted directly to and from javascript data, meaning you can copy+paste an entire roster of goons each with their own collection of weapons all in one easy step.
This will mean you'll need to keep around a master text file of JSON gobbledegook, but also that this is all you'll need to keep, and that said file can record HP, xp, weapon quality, and otherwise pretty much anything you'd want. And as mentioned, generating the text in the first place should be as easy as filling out boxes.
For the actual hitting each other with sticks part: Most of it is done but hasn't yet been integrated into the shell or with the underlying stats code, and the weapon data code is not solid yet. Once both of those are done, though, it'll mostly be finished in its most basic sense.
Post by: Sirus on January 15, 2017, 10:55:16 am
Post by: Parsely on January 15, 2017, 12:27:26 pm
Post by: Tiruin on January 15, 2017, 01:56:22 pm
Irony is a clever bean. This wouldn't be happening without him.Irony has inspired me since I've joined the RtD forums :I Like y'all else. (And Dwarmin, but he hasn't posted in this thread I think!)
But yeah--you are all cool and I look forward to using a BETTER CALCULATOR THAN EXCEL SPREADSHEETS (that I lack experience to be efficient with x.x)
Post by: Shoruke on January 15, 2017, 04:22:09 pm
I need a mug that looks like a simple, peaceful guy. Auburn hair preferred.
EDIT: Much obliged to I_Like_Pi for getting a mug ready for me!
Post by: IronyOwl on January 17, 2017, 09:58:12 pm
One, does weapon proficiency also act as a hard cap on what weapons you're able to wield, or are there special conditions if you're unqualified to wield your current armament? I can't find any definite rules for proficiency's function beyond WT reduction, and nothing concrete whatsoever about what weapon rank does.
Two, how would people like the calculator to display combat results?
Quote
Sniper4 versus Vandertz: 119-48= 71 Hit Rate. Roll: 38, Hit!This style, or something different?
45-17= 28 Damage!
Druid3 versus Yvain: 105-20-33= 52 Hit Rate. Roll: 79, Miss!
Post by: SOLDIER First on January 17, 2017, 10:05:21 pm
Post by: I_Like_Pi on January 17, 2017, 10:11:18 pm
Post by: Shoruke on January 19, 2017, 01:32:09 am
Although I think most GMs would go with "like the video games unless noted", so... yeah, your weapon ranks determine what weapons you can use.
(who writes / maintains the PHB? That should be an edit for the next version)
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on January 19, 2017, 02:52:16 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 19, 2017, 03:12:24 am
(who writes / maintains the PHB? That should be an edit for the next version)Far as I know it was a bloke named Cecil, but I haven't seen him around in a long time.
I suppose we could produce a 1.4 handbook of our own but everyone has different house rules.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 19, 2017, 03:41:45 am
Post by: Parsely on January 19, 2017, 10:35:59 am
Post by: Solymr on January 19, 2017, 10:52:47 am
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on January 19, 2017, 11:27:23 pm
Below you can find "crit weapons" for the subcategories without some sort of killer variety.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And this spoiler contains some new weapons I had been working on, and yes some do have dank souls weapon names because I am very unoriginal( actually need to find good name replacements).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: IronyOwl on January 20, 2017, 06:35:35 am
Post by: Sirus on January 26, 2017, 09:37:54 pm
Feeling better now though, so I should be able to get back to things tomorrow.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 26, 2017, 09:56:32 pm
Post by: Haspen on January 28, 2017, 05:42:31 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on January 28, 2017, 05:50:12 pm
Post by: S34N1C on January 28, 2017, 06:46:57 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 28, 2017, 07:55:23 pm
Post by: S34N1C on January 28, 2017, 08:15:39 pm
I'm at work so I can't do it right now but I'll give it a shot when I get home. Also good luck Hasp.Cool. Thanks a bunch!
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 28, 2017, 08:17:32 pm
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on January 29, 2017, 02:19:33 am
Conceal changed to Forest Hideout: When a unit ends their turn at Forest Terrain they gain +10 Extra Evasion.
Ambush: When an unit attack an opponent while they are at Forest Terrain they gain +10 Critical (Or could be +15 Hit, really).
Post by: SOLDIER First on January 29, 2017, 02:26:43 am
Quote from: Player's Handbook
If this unit moves into position for an attack from a starting position on a piece of cover (Forest, Pillar, Fog of War, or the like), the enemy cannot counter attack.
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on January 29, 2017, 03:00:57 am
Post by: Chevaleresse on January 29, 2017, 03:01:42 am
Post by: Shoruke on January 29, 2017, 03:18:03 am
augh, someone please convince me that posting a signup for castlefef is a bad idea, i'm already overstretchedWait a couple days and see if it gets flooded with requests, or if it looks to be shorthanded / just barely full.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 29, 2017, 09:46:23 am
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59151152/Work/S34N1CPegRider.png) (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59151152/Zips/S34N1CPegRider.zip)
Post by: S34N1C on January 29, 2017, 10:03:55 am
OK, here's what I got.Oooh, I like it. It's perfect, thanks.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59151152/Work/S34N1CPegRider.png) (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59151152/Zips/S34N1CPegRider.zip)
Post by: Sirus on January 29, 2017, 11:30:02 am
Post by: Haspen on January 29, 2017, 11:35:15 am
:v
V:!
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 29, 2017, 02:13:10 pm
@S34N1C: Glad you like it. ^^^
@Sirus: Nah, that's OK. I still say people who can do original content in their mugs trump a guy whose just pretty good at splicing. :P
Post by: Swordstar on January 29, 2017, 02:18:51 pm
@Sirus: Nah, that's OK. I still say people who can do original content in their mugs trump a guy whose just pretty good at splicing. :P
Yeah that. Splicing is fine. Doing original stuff is a whole other thing. Plus, it'll just run the risk of people getting annoyed/feelings hurt. So naht worth.
Post by: IronyOwl on January 31, 2017, 11:44:43 pm
We are however lazy and preoccupied, which is sort of the same thing.
Post by: Parsely on February 01, 2017, 12:22:07 am
New FEF calculator update: Nothing to report! It's just been a week and a half since the last report, so I figured I should mention we're not dead.What he's trying to say is if you're lazy and preoccupied you might as well be dead.
We are however lazy and preoccupied, which is sort of the same thing.
Post by: Shoruke on February 01, 2017, 12:50:20 am
I should build a bunker.New FEF calculator update: Nothing to report! It's just been a week and a half since the last report, so I figured I should mention we're not dead.What he's trying to say is if you're lazy and preoccupied you might as well be dead.
We are however lazy and preoccupied, which is sort of the same thing.
...
But I'm lazy. And preoccupied with school and work...
Post by: Swordstar on February 04, 2017, 03:22:30 pm
Post by: Sirus on February 09, 2017, 04:30:33 pm
This is probably a tall order, but you know Oscar? Path of Radiance? The dude with the squinty eyes like Brock?
I was kinda hoping for a mug like that, but in GBA FE form. Henry would be an acceptable substitute.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on February 09, 2017, 04:50:17 pm
Post by: Swordstar on February 09, 2017, 04:54:21 pm
Post by: Solymr on February 09, 2017, 04:56:48 pm
Is it sad that when you said Oscar I immediately thought of Haspen's dude from NoH and was like 'what's path of radiance have to do with anything'?
Bruh my mind went to the same Oscar and thought "why does he want *that* guy?" :v
Post by: Swordstar on February 09, 2017, 04:58:49 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on February 09, 2017, 05:01:52 pm
Post by: Haspen on February 09, 2017, 05:02:48 pm
Post by: Sirus on February 09, 2017, 05:28:11 pm
Post by: Swordstar on February 09, 2017, 11:29:00 pm
How's this Sirus?
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on February 11, 2017, 02:27:03 am
Post by: Haspen on February 11, 2017, 03:48:52 am
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on February 11, 2017, 10:48:42 pm
Post by: IronyOwl on February 14, 2017, 01:09:23 am
(http://i.imgur.com/ojD8Ju4.png)
.>.
The calculator still doesn't actually calculate, but it does actually track and process data much better and cleaner now. This is kind of important for a number of reasons, one of which being that FEF data is rather intertwined and complex, so it's kind of hard to test anything practical without every single piece being in place.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on February 14, 2017, 01:22:08 am
Post by: Haspen on February 14, 2017, 01:25:02 am
Even if there hasn't been a ton of progress I still want to say thanks for working on it, and you're doing a good job :3
Post by: Swordstar on February 14, 2017, 08:51:48 am
Even if there hasn't been a ton of progress I still want to say thanks for working on it, and you're doing a good job :3
Post by: Sirus on February 14, 2017, 11:11:31 am
Even if there hasn't been a ton of progress I still want to say thanks for working on it, and you're doing a good job :3
Post by: I_Like_Pi on February 14, 2017, 12:25:37 pm
Even if there hasn't been a ton of progress I still want to say thanks for working on it, and you're doing a good job :3
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on February 14, 2017, 12:26:20 pm
Post by: Felissan on February 14, 2017, 01:03:37 pm
Ditto.
Post by: Parsely on February 14, 2017, 04:14:16 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on February 20, 2017, 01:17:33 pm
What would you guys prefer?
Monster weapons having their own triangle, or counting as part of the ordinary weapons triangle for the purposes of advantages etc?
I'm leaning towards the second. Obviously an axeman couldn't use fangs, etc or a wolf use axes - but they'd both be good against lances and weak to swords.
I think otherwise the weapons triangle would be rather less relevant, since it'd be another three weapons that didn't get affected by your choice.
Post by: Swordstar on February 20, 2017, 01:22:08 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on February 20, 2017, 04:19:46 pm
Post by: Sirus on February 20, 2017, 04:23:48 pm
Post by: I_Like_Pi on February 20, 2017, 05:18:56 pm
For whatever it's worth, I agree.
Post by: Caellath on February 20, 2017, 05:53:36 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 22, 2017, 07:43:52 am
Thinking again about my potential monsterfef.you mean your second monsterfef
What would you guys prefer?
Monster weapons having their own triangle, or counting as part of the ordinary weapons triangle for the purposes of advantages etc?
I'm leaning towards the second. Obviously an axeman couldn't use fangs, etc or a wolf use axes - but they'd both be good against lances and weak to swords.
I think otherwise the weapons triangle would be rather less relevant, since it'd be another three weapons that didn't get affected by your choice.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on February 22, 2017, 07:55:33 am
you mean your second monsterfef
...no?
Post by: Solymr on February 22, 2017, 07:59:11 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 22, 2017, 08:15:16 am
[backflips into pit]
Post by: GiglameshDespair on February 23, 2017, 05:05:30 pm
Dragons are magical beings, capable of flight but weak to thunder - they rely on claws and fire magic, with the possibility of talons depending on promotion taken.
I need opinions, though. Does anything stick out as terrible? Do they seem interesting? I particularly would like thoughts on the Destroyer's Flame Claw ability. Does it seem too weak?
My first monsterclass being harpies. (http://pastebin.com/jX4kQUWT)
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 23, 2017, 05:12:05 pm
Although Dragonling -> Something not a dragon seems a bit... silly. :P
Post by: GiglameshDespair on February 23, 2017, 05:22:44 pm
Things seem good, including Flame Claw (which basically seems like discount Tome ranks, not bad at all).Drake is another word for dragon, generally a younger one.
Although Dragonling -> Something not a dragon seems a bit... silly. :P
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 23, 2017, 05:26:52 pm
Post by: Sirus on February 23, 2017, 05:37:57 pm
...this raises interesting questions. How will the dragon acquire new ones? If they have to be bought, where do they come from if not from other dragons?
I'm also thinking that for magical beings, they have surprisingly little emphasis on magic usage. It's also slightly weird that Dreadnoughts have straight-up better weapon ranks than Destroyers. Usually classes trade better ranks for inflexibility in weapon choice but the Dreadnought gets the best of both worlds. I would alter it so that Dreadnoughts lose the tome use (or keep it at E if nothing else) and Destroyers have the better magic firepower.
They also don't seem much like dragons at all, at least not the common conception of them. I would call them dragonkin, or something similar, instead. Dragons are usually enormous lizards; that sprite looks like a robed man with wings.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on February 23, 2017, 06:13:30 pm
If I'm reading this correctly, dragon claws have QL?Monster weapons have QL for balance purposes. Think of them as attachments or enchantments that wear out, but don't think too hard. Dragons aren't the only class who will use claws, much as spiders aren't the only ones using bite weapons,
...this raises interesting questions. How will the dragon acquire new ones? If they have to be bought, where do they come from if not from other dragons?
I'm also thinking that for magical beings, they have surprisingly little emphasis on magic usage. It's also slightly weird that Dreadnoughts have straight-up better weapon ranks than Destroyers. Usually classes trade better ranks for inflexibility in weapon choice but the Dreadnought gets the best of both worlds. I would alter it so that Dreadnoughts lose the tome use (or keep it at E if nothing else) and Destroyers have the better magic firepower.
They also don't seem much like dragons at all, at least not the common conception of them. I would call them dragonkin, or something similar, instead. Dragons are usually enormous lizards; that sprite looks like a robed man with wings.
Well, looks-kind-of-human-but-turns-into-sterotypical-dragon-when-old-enough is a bit of a mouthful. :P The sprite is, in fact, a robed man with wings.
What I was aiming for with dragons was a class that mainly used physical weapons but still had a good use for mag. Ultimately, they get some fire tome use for utility and flavour, but over all their damage should mainly come from physical.
Dreadnoughts have higher claws and fire tomes, but Destroyers gain another weapon category (and have talons and claws just one rank below Dreadnought's), so I wouldn't say dreadnoughts have straight-up better ranks.
But this is the kind of thing I wanted to hear. Cheers, Sirus.
Post by: Sirus on February 23, 2017, 06:18:15 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on February 23, 2017, 06:23:03 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 23, 2017, 11:12:37 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on February 25, 2017, 01:09:15 pm
Option 1: Subtarget on a miss is changed to a random square adjacent to the original target, and can fail to target anyone entirely based on this. Drawback: Makes the skill pretty situational especially if enemies aren't packed together, and with afflictions like silence or addled, can end up targeting someone not worth targeting with the chosen ailment.
Option 2: The Saint has to commit to splashover before making the attack by spending 2 ql, without knowing if the original hit made the mark. Drawback: only a workable solution if the GMs take account of ql for ailment staves, which many don't. So if this is taken and the GM opts not to count enemy staff ql, this could only harm players, which sort of misses the point entirely.
Option 3: Some direct penalty is given to the hit rate against the subtarget, anywhere from a smallish flat number, ie 15, to halving the caster's base hit rate before applying enemy RES. Drawback: If the penalty is too steep and the chance to hit the subtarget is too small, you may as well not have the skill. If the nerf is too light, you don't address the problem.
Of course othet possible options are valid, this is just what I came up with fairly quickly.
Post by: Swordstar on February 25, 2017, 01:11:42 pm
Personally I think Option 3 or Option 4 are the way to go. Enough enemies don't have QL counts even on low use staffs that Option 2 isn't going to make it any less OP on enemies. Option 1 is alright but it's still a free shot at a second target which is still powerful even if it is random. Especially since all but one or two staffs are going to be useful regardless who they hit. Yes, you might silence a hero, but nine times out of ten, that's not going to be a problem.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on February 25, 2017, 01:15:15 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 06, 2017, 11:01:35 pm
Post by: Felissan on March 12, 2017, 03:33:58 pm
Post by: Swordstar on March 12, 2017, 03:34:54 pm
Post by: Felissan on March 12, 2017, 03:36:53 pm
Post by: Haspen on March 12, 2017, 03:38:20 pm
Try a different client, maybe mibbit or via Pidgin multimessenger
Post by: Sirus on March 20, 2017, 06:42:27 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 23, 2017, 09:08:08 pm
So before I really get cracking on that, I'd like to know what either active GMs or people thinking about gming might like to see in that sort of resource.
As for things I already know that I want to include:
Preset leveling guides to generate enemies
A collection of monsters for campaigns that aren't centered on human/human conflicts
Notes on what makes maps work and design pitfalls to avoid
Experience guidelines
Pricing Guides, with notes on pricing flexibility based on player income
Additional item types (including equippable stat booster i.e. Haspen's rings)
Notes on Lords, including non-central support lords, and notes on Player Lords and why they're not worth doing
Notes on end game bosses, and how to avoid the anti-climax boss without building something so stupidly overpowered that it TPKs the party
Notes on building custom S Rank weapons
Notes on Campaign scope, tone, and length
Impact of class skills on enemy units
Death Rule variants and notes on the differences between each and where they belong
If there are other things that you think would be helpful to include, or if I've touched on something but you think it would require larger focus, just leave a post about it.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on March 24, 2017, 03:21:17 am
A gm guide could be good.
A v1.4 encompassing the most common home rules, fixing some of the mistakes in the rulebook, and maybe getting rid of all the unnecessary pictures could be good as well.
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 24, 2017, 03:24:21 am
Post by: Solymr on March 24, 2017, 05:55:45 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 24, 2017, 07:30:06 am
Post by: Sirus on March 24, 2017, 07:37:44 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on March 24, 2017, 07:39:04 am
Post by: Twinwolf on March 24, 2017, 07:44:21 am
And a section for resolving some questions that come up with any frequency.
Post by: Solymr on March 24, 2017, 08:12:48 am
Post by: Twinwolf on March 24, 2017, 08:17:06 am
"Pricing Guides, with notes on pricing flexibility based on player income"
On that note though, maybe try to give a sort of idea of around when characters should have access to certain weapons?
Post by: I_Like_Pi on March 25, 2017, 02:05:10 pm
Post by: Chevaleresse on March 25, 2017, 02:12:38 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on March 25, 2017, 03:04:20 pm
Spooder class! (http://pastebin.com/jViRRf7N)
People's thoughts, as per usual.
Yes, Monsterfef is still progressing very slowly towards OOC thread post.
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 25, 2017, 03:41:19 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on March 25, 2017, 04:25:02 pm
if it bites you and you die it's venomous not poisonous
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 26, 2017, 10:50:35 am
If you post it and I don't care it's every single post you have ever made:P
Post by: Haspen on March 26, 2017, 03:42:17 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on March 26, 2017, 03:43:28 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 30, 2017, 09:53:48 pm
1. Rescuing a Unit halves two of your stats (unless you take a special Character Skill to make it viable), making you a significant target and making the likelihood that you'll join your rescuee in death (basically the main thing Rescue is used to deal with) very high.
2. Rescuing a Unit ties up at least two characters for one turn (the rescue drop scenario) or two characters for multiple turns (anything that's not that). With a time investment like that, a stat penalty is unnecessary at best, and detrimental at worse.
3. Two points is plenty.
My suggestion is that we drop the stat penalty on Rescuing (and Savior since this makes that worthless) and just let people Rescue anyone they want without further penalties.
But Blade, wouldn't that make rescuing too powerful?
Not by half. It just makes it viable. It would also encourage more sensible behavior on the battlefield.
Say you have a one tile choke. A mage got in front, and a knight right behind them. The mage goes down. Under the penalized rescue system, the knight can't rescue the mage without becoming much more vulnerable and be unlikely to respond to threats effectively. So the knight doesn't do this, and instead turtles aggressively while the rest of the party passes them medicine so they can occasionally heal the mage to stop them from hitting the death counter limit. Not great.
If the knight can safely rescue, however, he could hoist the mage one turn, operate for an EP without having his speed and skill halved, then drop him behind him where the healer can reach. The knight is tied up for two turns, and isn't attacking, but things get done.
TLDR: nix Rescue penalties and we can avoid vuln dancing quite as often.
Post by: Swordstar on March 30, 2017, 09:57:39 pm
Post by: I_Like_Pi on March 30, 2017, 10:05:20 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 30, 2017, 10:10:09 pm
Post by: Swordstar on March 30, 2017, 10:12:59 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on March 30, 2017, 11:31:54 pm
Post by: Parsely on March 31, 2017, 12:17:34 am
My main complaint is formatting. A lot of key information is crunched into descriptive paragraphs, which is all fine and good when you're a beginner, but as a reference book it's difficult to use efficiently in the electronic format. If I wanted to print the whole thing it would be 100 pages so I made my own version of the pdf that has all the summary pages on them, which is where all the key information is when it comes to running battles, some of which is found nowhere else in the book or is easy to accidentally skim over.
Post by: Chevaleresse on March 31, 2017, 12:19:08 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on March 31, 2017, 01:38:42 am
Post by: I_Like_Pi on March 31, 2017, 01:41:37 am
Calling CON bloated completely ignores the role it plays in determining Attack Speed, so unless you want to drop all weapon weight by three or four points as well... :P
I'm pretty sure Blade's specifically referring to con in regard to mount con and the difficulties of rescuing mounted units.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on March 31, 2017, 01:48:12 am
That does work a little weird, but if that's what he meant that's what he should've said. He doesn't mention mounted units at all in either his original post on the subject or in the second.
Although speaking of his idea, maybe instead of ditching it Savior could be reworked to make it where Rescuing is a free action instead of taking up a turn. That way you can Rescue + Drop (since that would still be a whole action) in one turn or Rescue and attack or move or whatever.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on March 31, 2017, 02:05:59 am
Having grokked that handbook more than I would have liked to (speaking of the FEF calculator, I haven't touched it in a month or two, apologies) I can say that more than just mechanics could use improvement.
My main complaint is formatting. A lot of key information is crunched into descriptive paragraphs, which is all fine and good when you're a beginner, but as a reference book it's difficult to use efficiently in the electronic format. If I wanted to print the whole thing it would be 100 pages so I made my own version of the pdf that has all the summary pages on them, which is where all the key information is when it comes to running battles, some of which is found nowhere else in the book or is easy to accidentally skim over.
Yeah, if I make a 1.4 like discussed before I'm trimming out all the fat.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on March 31, 2017, 04:27:32 am
Post by: Lenglon on March 31, 2017, 06:06:29 am
FEF interests me, havent played any, figure this thread will point me where I want to be pointed.
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 31, 2017, 07:04:49 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on March 31, 2017, 07:28:19 am
Post by: Parsely on March 31, 2017, 08:49:12 am
Gun, you can't just say that and then not link it. I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd like a look. :PAll I did was delete pages I didn't want using PDF Architect. Here's the version I used for developing the FEF calculator: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vjde1uif4lbw9on/Players%20Handbook%20v1.3%20edited.pdf?dl=0
If you really want to dissect that manual and your budget allows for it (or you get free printing from somewhere), I'd recommend deleting all of the pictures and printing out the entire manual.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 31, 2017, 09:11:41 am
Aid has only one use: Determining if you can rescue a unit based on another player's con. However, since Aid is just a unit's con -1, and the rescue capability of a unit is any target with a con equal to or less than your aid, you can determine this ny instead asking: Is my con higher than the rescue targets? If yes, rescue.
I think this issue was floated in the past and was never fully addressed, but I suggest we simplify the system to CON and SIZ. Con only affects your attack speed, SIZ is your CON plus any bonus from a mount, and only determines rescuing. If you have a larger SIZ, you can rescue. If your SIZ is equal or less, you can't. Never again will we need to explain that a horse does not mitigate weapon weight penalties.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on March 31, 2017, 09:51:02 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 31, 2017, 10:31:37 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 31, 2017, 10:34:35 am
Post by: Furtuka on March 31, 2017, 12:07:47 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 31, 2017, 12:34:26 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on March 31, 2017, 01:20:48 pm
It's rather counter to the main idea of simplifying the issue, but maybe a possible way to maintain the idea behind the stat penalties while still doing some of the tuneups brought up by Blade could be giving a small numerical range where someone with a smaller CON could still rescue someone larger, but then that's when you have the penalties applied since they're essentially struggling to drag the person behind them. Or perhaps the other way around where they're applied if your CON/SIZ only has a very small increase over the CON/AID of the unit being rescued.If there has to be a penalty for going over your siz it could be the difference is subtracted from your speed.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 31, 2017, 01:50:33 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on March 31, 2017, 02:51:38 pm
Post by: Lenglon on April 01, 2017, 03:11:02 am
Post by: Swordstar on April 01, 2017, 10:03:19 am
Post by: Lenglon on April 01, 2017, 10:14:40 am
Best to just get the link to 1.3, no one really uses 1.2 anymoreErm, the game SC linked uses 1.2...
Post by: I_Like_Pi on April 01, 2017, 12:32:48 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 01, 2017, 12:50:52 pm
I also replaced the FEF1PDF while I was at it :V
Post by: Lenglon on April 01, 2017, 12:57:39 pm
Donut worry, I just replaced the links v;Thank you very much.
I also replaced the FEF1PDF while I was at it :V
Post by: GiglameshDespair on April 01, 2017, 01:05:12 pm
That game's really old though I think?Over three years since the OOC op, yeah.
Post by: Haspen on April 01, 2017, 01:41:31 pm
That game's really old though I think?Over three years since the OOC op, yeah.
It's like a glacier.
Ancient and barely moving '<.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on April 01, 2017, 02:02:52 pm
In danger due to global warming?That game's really old though I think?Over three years since the OOC op, yeah.
It's like a glacier.
Ancient and barely moving '<.
Post by: Solymr on April 01, 2017, 02:13:12 pm
Post by: Parsely on April 04, 2017, 11:13:29 pm
Post by: I_Like_Pi on April 04, 2017, 11:54:23 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 05, 2017, 06:28:07 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on April 05, 2017, 07:58:01 am
For the time being I've removed most of the pictures, and that's cut 30 pages out the damn thing.
What needs to be reorganised?
It's a bit of a mess, but it'd be helpful if people could point out the particularly poor bits that need work.
Bits I already know need redoing:
Support stuff is split between front and end of the doc
Weapons in starting list have different stats to weapons in tables
Thunder subcat in weapons tables listed as Wind
For the gameplay fixes, I'm thinking:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
So lets discuss the problems with the Con/Aid system. As of right now, Con does two things. First, it determines who you can rescue, something that is affected by mounts, and preventing slowdown from weapon weight, which is not affected by mounts.Do people want me to put in this?
Aid has only one use: Determining if you can rescue a unit based on another player's con. However, since Aid is just a unit's con -1, and the rescue capability of a unit is any target with a con equal to or less than your aid, you can determine this ny instead asking: Is my con higher than the rescue targets? If yes, rescue.
I think this issue was floated in the past and was never fully addressed, but I suggest we simplify the system to CON and SIZ. Con only affects your attack speed, SIZ is your CON plus any bonus from a mount, and only determines rescuing. If you have a larger SIZ, you can rescue. If your SIZ is equal or less, you can't. Never again will we need to explain that a horse does not mitigate weapon weight penalties.
It sounds like a good idea to me, but it's a decent change so I need people's opinions.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 05, 2017, 08:07:29 am
Post by: Haspen on April 05, 2017, 08:20:42 am
Support stuff is split between front and end of the doc
Weapons in starting list have different stats to weapons in tables
Put all Support stuff to the bottom of the handbook, where them modifiers and ranks all discussed in full.
Nix starting list of weapons; simple weapon name reference is enough in its place, or get rid of it completely and people can look up starting weapons on trainee/first class entries.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 05, 2017, 10:30:37 am
And Corrosion, too. Mostly because no GM tracks enemy QL and its waste of skill on important (aka Boss) enemy units v;Support stuff is split between front and end of the doc
Weapons in starting list have different stats to weapons in tables
Put all Support stuff to the bottom of the handbook, where them modifiers and ranks all discussed in full.
Nix starting list of weapons; simple weapon name reference is enough in its place, or get rid of it completely and people can look up starting weapons on trainee/first class entries.
This all seems right, but I do take issue with a few points.
Disarm: I don't see why it needs to be limited to the Player Phase and be Cost. Certainly one or the other, but both seems like overkill.
I don't like all the magic first classes having skills that are dependent on STR but that's really more of a little personal issue I take rather than a balance one. If there really are no alternatives people like, I'll drop that particular issue.
Also if we're giving the Black Magic tree effective damage it may be prudent to reduce MT across the board, since that is pretty brutal otherwise, and if we do that we can let them get the full use of WTA.
Last thing: I may not have actually been paying attention, but what were the problems with the Hidden Blade/Gun?
Post by: Solymr on April 05, 2017, 11:09:26 am
Post by: Swordstar on April 05, 2017, 05:21:06 pm
The ranks needed weren't lining up with Assassin weapon ranks, but I changed Assassin and hidden stuff was k
What exactly did you change though? Because from what I see, you changed wt and mt which has nothing to do with weapon ranks and no weapon ranks are mentioned in the other changes gig listed. Also I think it works correctly now tbh. Assassin's can use the one weapon they're skilled in and not the other. Otherwise they get access to two class weapons which is ehhh
Post by: Solymr on April 06, 2017, 04:25:46 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on April 06, 2017, 05:25:47 am
I literally just don't know when I might be back online properly.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 06, 2017, 05:29:23 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 06, 2017, 05:42:05 am
Post by: Swordstar on April 06, 2017, 07:14:54 am
Oh that was unrelated to the weapon ranks, I removed the actual change of hidden gun/blade needing an A rank or whatever it was.
Then why mention weapon ranks?
RIP Gig :(
Post by: Haspen on April 06, 2017, 07:29:39 am
So diggers have cut through my internet cable
I literally just don't know when I might be back online properly.
/me presses f to pay respects ;v
Post by: GiglameshDespair on April 06, 2017, 08:39:25 am
Instead, the digger people called someone who came and fixed it so I have internet back.
Disaster averted, I guess! No thanks to my ISP...
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 06, 2017, 09:11:04 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on April 06, 2017, 09:12:46 am
Things all got resolved very suddenly and quickly when to all expectations it was going to take a lot longer.
I'm not complaining though. If I had to wait five days for proper internet I might well have just shot myself and got it over with.
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 06, 2017, 10:55:18 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 06, 2017, 03:14:46 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 09, 2017, 05:10:46 am
Slim weapons having 10 Crit seemed a bit excessive to me at the beginning, I reduced it to 5.
Steel Lance and Steel Halberd: lance weighs more than halberd but has less mt.
Judgement and Druidic: since effective is based on MT it results in some inequality when dealing with certain classes/weapons. Compare using Judgement vs Archers and vs Swordsmen. I thought of making them all do the same damage when used effectively based on level, but since that ended up too complicated for anyone's tastes, I thought making it simply MAG*1.5 or 2 might be ok.
Post by: Lenglon on April 09, 2017, 05:44:45 am
i like slim having the full 10 crit.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 09, 2017, 06:46:48 am
Steel Lance should probably have the weight reduced rather than buffing the steel halberd.
I don't have a problem with judgement magic as is. Druidic tomes could probably stand a MT reduction across the board but I don't think a mechanic change like you're suggesting is a good idea. Especially in the late game where your MAG multiplier would be tacking on 10-30 damage depending on whether you're doing 1.5 or 2.
Post by: Solymr on April 09, 2017, 07:56:55 am
And I insist having such damage disparity is stupid.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 09, 2017, 08:15:52 am
Post by: Solymr on April 09, 2017, 08:19:10 am
Also Warding wat do
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 09, 2017, 08:24:39 am
To me, warding is a lost cause. I never really liked the concept but I have no idea how it could be addressed.
Post by: Sirus on April 09, 2017, 10:58:42 am
It seems a bit excessive to me. All it's missing is base crit, which isn't much of a downside at all when the vast majority of physical weapons lack base crit.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on April 09, 2017, 11:12:06 am
Code: [Select]
Name | Type ( ) | Rng | Wt | Mt | Hit | Cr | Ql
Iron Sword | Slsh (E) | 1 | 5 | 5 | 85 | 0 | 45 |
Devil's Sword | Slsh (E) | 1 | 14 | 16 | 65 | 0 | 20 | (31-LUC) chance for wielder to take damage instead
Slim Sword | Thru (E) | 1 | 3 | 4 | 100 | 10 | 35 |
Iron Rapier | Thru (E) | 1 | 6 | 5 | 80 | 0 | 40 | +2 DMG vs Armoured
Iron Blade | Crsh (E) | 1 | 8 | 9 | 70 | 0 | 45 |
Wooden Sword | Crsh (E) | 1 | 4 | 6 | 100 | 0 | 50
Iron Dagger | Side (E) | 1 | 4 | 4 | 100 | 0 | 45 |
Iron Knife | Side (E) | 1-2 | 5 | 4 | 90 | 0 | 40...Jesus, yeah, that is without question the best e-rank sword by far.
It's objectively better than the iron dagger completely, which simply shouldn't happen.
I agree, then, that it needs a nerf.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 09, 2017, 11:17:14 am
Post by: Swordstar on April 09, 2017, 11:26:02 am
I think effective class trees are fine.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on April 09, 2017, 11:32:33 am
Wooden Sword | Crsh (E) | 1 | 6 | 6 | 80 | 0 | 50
It's bizarre in how OP it is. None of the other crush swords have hit above 75. Ultimately I don't think there needs to be or indeed can be too hard a balance, but it does stand out.
Post by: Haspen on April 09, 2017, 12:56:04 pm
Give it 1 or 2 MT max.
Post by: Swordstar on April 09, 2017, 01:03:47 pm
It's Wooden Sword.
Give it 1 or 2 MT max.
/me whacks hasp over the head with giant tree branch
Still sure 2 mt? :P
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 09, 2017, 01:05:43 pm
Post by: Haspen on April 09, 2017, 01:07:56 pm
but it's a crush weapon
Cuz thick blunt edge and not a thin sharp slashing edge or pointy stabby tip v:
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 09, 2017, 01:20:54 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on April 09, 2017, 01:52:20 pm
you can sharpen a wooden object too :v
Unless you sharpen it as a stake sort of thing, it's not going to hold an edge at all. If you want to cut things, you need a harder material. Stone, metal, or even bone will do with nothing better available.
You're not thrusting with this wooden sword, however, since it's a crush weapon. You're just battering a man to death with it.
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 09, 2017, 02:12:18 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 09, 2017, 03:05:58 pm
Post by: Haspen on April 29, 2017, 07:48:24 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 29, 2017, 09:17:42 pm
Post by: Haspen on April 30, 2017, 03:32:09 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on April 30, 2017, 01:27:16 pm
Post by: Haspen on April 30, 2017, 01:39:22 pm
Is fun making them up, tho.
Post by: Solymr on May 11, 2017, 10:43:25 am
Post by: Parsely on May 11, 2017, 11:07:38 am
Ayy so any updates on that calculator thing? :vI was just forlornly staring at the GitHub as a matter of fact. Finals just wrapped up so now I actually have some time to dedicate to this. Things have changed slightly. I got a bunch of experience with Visual Studio this semester and I've gotten to see the benefits of using that, so now I'm considering abandoning the web idea and just porting the existing scripts to C# and making a desktop app instead. It would make solving the current problem of data storage on the web app (I can't pay for a database so the web app would have to do everything in one session; i.e. it can't remember anything unless I used cookies, but people delete cookies) much easier, while introducing new issues:
- How do I import/export sheets on a desktop app? (Probably not too hard but I need to do research.)
- Am I going to have special setup requirements or can I make this work with just an .exe?
- I imagine I'd need to have a thing built into the app that will say "there's a new update!" or something.
- Probably lots of other things that I can't anticipate.
The potential for a desktop app is much greater. You could actually build off of that code to make a proper thing that could do more of the GMing tasks, but for now I'm just thinking about a battle calculator.
Thoughts?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 11, 2017, 01:40:00 pm
Post by: Solymr on May 11, 2017, 01:48:16 pm
I really like the application idea.
+1
Post by: Sirus on May 11, 2017, 02:10:23 pm
Post by: IronyOwl on May 11, 2017, 04:51:27 pm
I was just forlornly staring at the GitHub as a matter of fact.What a coincidence!
Though in my case it's more staring at the code trying to remember which bits to store on the page so an entirely different script can do battle calcs with them (my eternal hatred for programmatically figuring out weapon triangles shines bright here). You can call multiple functions from one web element, though, so updating HP/QL after the battle calcs have messed with it is doable.
- How do I import/export sheets on a desktop app? (Probably not too hard but I need to do research.)-Pretty much the same. The advantage of JSON import/export is that it's automatic. Manual parsing is tedious but pretty simple once you settle on a format. EXEs also aren't as touchy about messing with the hard drive as web pages, so storing/retrieving files locally rather than manually copy+pasting is easier.
- Am I going to have special setup requirements or can I make this work with just an .exe?
- I imagine I'd need to have a thing built into the app that will say "there's a new update!" or something.
- Probably lots of other things that I can't anticipate.
The potential for a desktop app is much greater. You could actually build off of that code to make a proper thing that could do more of the GMing tasks, but for now I'm just thinking about a battle calculator.
Thoughts?
-The latter, though feeding in external files (custom weapons, existing charsheets) might be nice.
-Trying to get it to check for updates strikes me as overly complicated.
-GUI creation, for one. If you've gotten familiar enough with that in C# that you'd prefer it to HTML/CSS, there's no problem. Otherwise, we'd be taking a step down graphically.
There's also the more general danger in abandoning stuff you have to build a newer and better version. Sometimes it's a good idea, sometimes it forms a vicious cycle. :<
EDIT:
Ayy so any updates on that calculator thing? :vMight as well mention the specific status of what we currently have.
The basic import/create/export characters and their stats bits work great. If you want to fill in stats for your character and give them a set of weapons and then click through the dropdowns calling them and seeing their stats appear in different boxes, we got you. There are two major problems from there.
The first and by far pettier issue is that I've stalled in creating what I'm calling the "team editor." Basically, there's no way to delete characters or teams within the program. This can be done manually by deleting JSON code, but that's a little unprofessional and obnoxious. So I've been "working" on a lower section of the page to handle selecting individual characters or teams (that is, characters whose "team" field matches the one you've selected), and then deleting or leveling them up.
I probably shouldn't have gone off faffing about with extras like "remove enemies once the map is over with one button click" while the battle calculator still doesn't calculate battles, but I thought getting the levelup feature in there would be worth it, because everyone says leveling is stupidly tedious, but it's also stupidly simple, and that is exactly the kind of thing you should have robots doing for you.
Anyway, the other and more serious issue is that the battle calculator doesn't calculate battles. This is complicated by the fact that we were going to keep battle scripts separate from stat calculating/storage/display scripts, but that means battle scripts can't access the main script's variables, which means we need to store anything the battle calcs needs on the page. This is far from impossible (hidden page elements are a thing) but figuring out how to store and process it all is a little frazzling. Plus then we have to call some other script to update HP/QL values afterwards, which adds another layer of Maybe I Should Play Crusader Kings II And Work On This In Just A Moment.
It's also, like most of this project, inhibited somewhat by the fact that FEF is just brimming with weird exceptions, which means every single thing we do involves at least a brief pause to wonder whether we're going to handle that one special case where axes deal magic damage using speed as its damage attribute on a reversed weapon triangle.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 11, 2017, 08:21:13 pm
axes... using speed as its damage attribute...
Holy shit, now there's a unique weapon idea.
Post by: mastahcheese on May 11, 2017, 11:32:03 pm
I think that would make speed wretchedly overpowered.axes... using speed as its damage attribute...
Holy shit, now there's a unique weapon idea.
Post by: I_Like_Pi on May 11, 2017, 11:50:34 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on May 12, 2017, 12:53:38 am
Post by: freeformschooler on May 12, 2017, 09:02:28 am
I think that would make speed wretchedly overpowered.axes... using speed as its damage attribute...
Holy shit, now there's a unique weapon idea.
(http://i.imgur.com/UYsQQ9K.png)
I can see only upsides.
Good to hear the calculator's still comic along, though. Feared it was a dead project a while ago. Perhaps this will usher in a new FEF golden era, increasing the maximum sanity value for FEF GMs from "none" to "a little bit."
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 12, 2017, 09:43:13 am
Post by: Solymr on May 12, 2017, 10:09:57 am
what is this sanity you keep talking about
Post by: mastahcheese on May 12, 2017, 03:06:22 pm
Cheese's avatar is perfect for his post. XDWhich one was it? Mine's on a rotator, so there are a bunch.
I think that sanity is only something that sane people have.
I can't imagine it being on this forum.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on May 17, 2017, 03:11:17 pm
Prospects for recovery are low. Dunno when I'll have a computer next.
Obviously DSE is suspended or dead. I'll probably be around less because hey, no computer.
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 17, 2017, 03:22:09 pm
Post by: Twinwolf on May 17, 2017, 03:28:57 pm
If you post soon that is :P
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on May 18, 2017, 10:33:39 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 19, 2017, 06:34:00 am
Post by: Solymr on May 19, 2017, 06:43:47 am
Post by: Aliemma on May 19, 2017, 10:38:43 am
Well it seems pretty likely its my hard drive has spontaneously died, along with everything on it, includig maps for DSE and mugs. Also the half done 1.4 but I hadn't touched that in ages so whatever.
Prospects for recovery are low. Dunno when I'll have a computer next.
Obviously DSE is suspended or dead. I'll probably be around less because hey, no computer.
Aw, hope that you'll recover and be able to get a new computer soon ;-;
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on May 19, 2017, 06:13:15 pm
Reading earlier FEF games (especially the numbered ones by Haspen) is a good start. There are some over on Serene's Forest, too.
Ok, I'll take a look at those when I get the chance.
First post of this thread has FEF1 in pdf format if you'd rather read that :v
I actually downloaded FEF1 a couple of days ago, and I'm a good chunk of the way through now. Fun read.
Post by: randomgenericusername on May 19, 2017, 08:24:10 pm
Also what games are looking for players? maybe i will join one if they accept complete newbies that have no clue about everything.
Post by: Powder Miner on June 11, 2017, 01:28:06 pm
It can be accessed easily on mobile, whereas IRC will typically die on mobile if I tab out too long, and importantly it is persistent for each person using the chat, so we can keep plans and strategic conversations going much more coherently
Post by: Solymr on June 11, 2017, 01:45:21 pm
I feel like FEF would benefit from a discord
It can be accessed easily on mobile, whereas IRC will typically die on mobile if I tab out too long, and importantly it is persistent for each person using the chat, so we can keep plans and strategic conversations going much more coherently
Easily on mobile? It doesn't work on my phone.
Post by: I_Like_Pi on June 11, 2017, 01:57:24 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on June 11, 2017, 02:04:08 pm
I read the handbook and i have to say that this looks really interesting, but im not very good at rp and im afaird that i mess up, can anyone give me tips so i can maybe latter try joining one of these FEF? (also my english is not very good sorry :( )This may well be late enough it won't be read, but personally - I'd recommend practicing your english. Just going through what you've written can help fix common mistakes - singular I should always be capitalised, sentences should always end in punctuation, and you can catch any typos that way (such as im afaird).
Also what games are looking for players? maybe i will join one if they accept complete newbies that have no clue about everything.
For each character you should decide on their goals, their personality, and their fears. Humans are flawed, imperfect creatures, so think of something they are strong in and something they're weak in. Perhaps they're very determined, but quick to anger, for example.
Most importantly they have to be willing to work with the group. Edgy loners end up being, well, alone, and that's just somewhat boring in the end.
I feel like FEF would benefit from a discordEh.
It can be accessed easily on mobile, whereas IRC will typically die on mobile if I tab out too long, and importantly it is persistent for each person using the chat, so we can keep plans and strategic conversations going much more coherently
It does have the same issue as IRC in that people who don't check it regularly still won't see plans and stuff in a timescale that matters.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on June 11, 2017, 05:43:23 pm
Post by: Haspen on June 11, 2017, 11:25:07 pm
Also the last five times I went to the IRC room it's been totally dead, like FEF in general, so I don't think a Discord matters much. :V
Hard for it to not look dead when you come when half of people are asleep and other half is busy and you leave 3 minutes after joining before anyone can come back and say hi. V:
Post by: Felissan on June 14, 2017, 11:32:32 am
Something like this:
Bandit A: 24/24
Post by: Sirus on June 14, 2017, 11:46:55 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 14, 2017, 11:48:34 am
Post by: Haspen on June 14, 2017, 11:55:30 am
I personally won't be doing it; too much effort.
Ditto.
Post by: I_Like_Pi on June 14, 2017, 03:50:38 pm
Ditto-er.I personally won't be doing it; too much effort.
Ditto.
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on June 15, 2017, 11:53:35 pm
Choice scarf ditto.Ditto-er.I personally won't be doing it; too much effort.
Ditto.
Post by: freeformschooler on June 22, 2017, 05:27:05 pm
i come back and it's just
dead
where are all the ships and supports and fun times
how can we revive it
new blood is needed but where
Post by: Twinwolf on June 22, 2017, 05:30:27 pm
Also it's well alive over on another forum but that doesn't particularly matter for this one :P
Post by: Sirus on June 22, 2017, 05:31:18 pm
Post by: freeformschooler on June 22, 2017, 05:33:20 pm
Heyo freeform. Sorry you came back during something of a dry spell.
hey sup
Yeah I can't actually leave, I'm bound here by spiritual shackles, even after my game ended. Maybe what we need is another newbie FEF or something to really get newer folks invested again. But idk if I'd be the best person to run that.
Post by: Solymr on June 22, 2017, 05:36:39 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 22, 2017, 06:05:24 pm
Post by: Solymr on June 22, 2017, 06:13:34 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 22, 2017, 06:22:03 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on June 22, 2017, 06:28:12 pm
Post by: Chevaleresse on June 22, 2017, 06:32:00 pm
Also, late, but one person's phone not running Discord doesn't make it not work for anyone else. I've never experienced crippling technical issues with Discord across two different computers, browser and native clients, and my own phone, so.
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on June 22, 2017, 08:03:29 pm
Post by: Felissan on June 23, 2017, 04:21:27 am
Post by: Solymr on June 23, 2017, 04:27:37 am
About Discord: I'm not opposed to having one for fef as long as it doesn't replace IRC, if it were to I would be completely opposed.
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on June 24, 2017, 01:09:47 am
Edit: Also nice to see you around freeform.
Post by: RoseHeart on July 10, 2017, 05:51:23 am
The project will be cohosted with me for a short time, if we both like it it can grow into more. This project is a hybrid of FireEmblem and Majesty.
Post by: Solymr on July 11, 2017, 05:18:10 am
Post by: Haspen on July 11, 2017, 08:51:19 am
I am looking for someone who is a FEoF host or wants to be one. Someone capable of making maps and hosting battles. This can be a beginner FEoF or more.
The project will be cohosted with me for a short time, if we both like it it can grow into more. This project is a hybrid of FireEmblem and Majesty.
Details, good sir, details.
Post by: Solymr on July 11, 2017, 04:17:42 pm
Post by: Parsely on July 11, 2017, 04:20:01 pm
^^This.I am looking for someone who is a FEoF host or wants to be one. Someone capable of making maps and hosting battles. This can be a beginner FEoF or more.
The project will be cohosted with me for a short time, if we both like it it can grow into more. This project is a hybrid of FireEmblem and Majesty.
Details, good sir, details.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on July 11, 2017, 04:25:47 pm
On a semirelated note I'm gonna start looking for 6 newbs for a beginner FEF. Will last 5-6 chapters and be somewhat streamlined, those who are interested post here.
Good luck Soly. ^^^
Post by: Mopsy on July 11, 2017, 04:28:27 pm
fef is dead
i come back and it's just
dead
where are all the ships and supports and fun times
how can we revive it
new blood is needed but where
Well, I sort of told them so (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=158910.msg7095516#msg7095516). FEF is about tactics and roleplay, and neither is very entertaining if it's just torturously (as in ... ... ... *BUMP* ... ... "Muh exams." ... ... ... *BUMP* ... "12-5." ... ... ... ... ... "Guys, I'm sorry but I don't have time to run this anymore.") going through the motions. Predictability is not fun, unless you're a very small child or an imbecile.
So what if someone dies? They can come back later on because they weren't really dead, or they were resurrected. Or just suck it up and make a new, better character.
So what if you're losing a battle? If you really enjoy the game, then you can always find a way forward. You might be given the option to surrender. The cavalry might arrive. Or something. It's not the end of the world, unless you're making it so.
Noob or vet, we gamers thrive in an environment where creativity and initiative is allowed to flow freely. Let people try unusual things. Let the "wrong" thing happen. Keep things rolling, even if some parts get shaken loose along the way. Then FEF might be fun and feel alive again. I hope that it does, because it has been great before, and it still has great potential.
I mean, why not give it a try? What do you have to lose? Run a "free for all, jump right in, do your thing" FEF instead of a "beginner's for dummies" FEF. Fast and furious FEF can't be any harder to run or play than by-the-book FEF. Once upon a time, there was no book and no veterans, but there was plenty of good times.
Post by: Solymr on July 11, 2017, 04:34:08 pm
Post by: Mopsy on July 11, 2017, 05:25:52 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 11, 2017, 05:37:58 pm
So what if someone dies? They can come back later on because they weren't really dead, or they were resurrected.
I personally would advocate against either of these methods. Character death should have weight and meaning, especially in a game emulating a series where permanent death is a major bullet point.
Or just suck it up and make a new, better character.
If your character does die, this is the way to address it, I feel.
Post by: randomgenericusername on July 11, 2017, 06:06:29 pm
Post by: Swordstar on July 11, 2017, 08:00:41 pm
fef is dead
i come back and it's just
dead
where are all the ships and supports and fun times
how can we revive it
new blood is needed but where
Well, I sort of told them so (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=158910.msg7095516#msg7095516). FEF is about tactics and roleplay, and neither is very entertaining if it's just torturously (as in ... ... ... *BUMP* ... ... "Muh exams." ... ... ... *BUMP* ... "12-5." ... ... ... ... ... "Guys, I'm sorry but I don't have time to run this anymore.") going through the motions. Predictability is not fun, unless you're a very small child or an imbecile.
So what if someone dies? They can come back later on because they weren't really dead, or they were resurrected. Or just suck it up and make a new, better character.
So what if you're losing a battle? If you really enjoy the game, then you can always find a way forward. You might be given the option to surrender. The cavalry might arrive. Or something. It's not the end of the world, unless you're making it so.
Noob or vet, we gamers thrive in an environment where creativity and initiative is allowed to flow freely. Let people try unusual things. Let the "wrong" thing happen. Keep things rolling, even if some parts get shaken loose along the way. Then FEF might be fun and feel alive again. I hope that it does, because it has been great before, and it still has great potential.
I mean, why not give it a try? What do you have to lose? Run a "free for all, jump right in, do your thing" FEF instead of a "beginner's for dummies" FEF. Fast and furious FEF can't be any harder to run or play than by-the-book FEF. Once upon a time, there was no book and no veterans, but there was plenty of good times.
You're demonstrating a staggering ignorance of how FEFs work. You're coming in here and saying I told you so after you quit a game because other people played it differently than you did. You're implying we're all imbeciles or children when you left a game because you didn't get your way and that apparently made the game unfun.
People dying is part of the game. There have been exactly 0 games in the FEF series where characters died and were allowed back in *or* where characters died and their players were allowed to create new characters (except for one where the death was planned from the beginning and that prolly shouldn't have happened I say as one of the people involved in it).
Losing a battle can in fact be the end of the game. Not always but it can be. And more importantly, people like to win. We'll accept losing a battle if we absolutely have to, but at the end of the day, we're going to try as hard as we can to win. The difficulty setting of FEF is high, and it's win or lose 99% of the time. Games have adapted to lost battles. But that doesn't mean that it's the optimal ending or that there wasn't a better way to handle it.
People are allowed to try new things and do stuff. The problem comes when your "trying new things" affects people other than your character. No one wants to die because someone else made a stupid decision. There needs to be give and take with this creativity that you want.
If you want a game like that, you run it. You're coming in here telling us why we're wrong and how it could be so much better. So prove it. Go run it. Show us why your ideas are better than ours instead of sitting back and saying "Ah yes, I was right, see?" Because right now you're being a bit of an asshole and that's not going to make anyone want to listen to you.
Post by: Solymr on July 12, 2017, 02:39:15 pm
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on July 12, 2017, 02:41:00 pm
Well good news is there's someone interested in beginning in FEF, we need more. Not long ago some people were interested in one so I'm poking them here: Wolfhunter107 and Felissan, still interested?
Yeah, I'm definitely still interested.
Post by: Felissan on July 12, 2017, 03:00:49 pm
Post by: Mopsy on July 12, 2017, 03:15:50 pm
People dying is part of the game. There have been exactly 0 games in the FEF series where characters died and were allowed back in *or* where characters died and their players were allowed to create new characters (except for one where the death was planned from the beginning and that prolly shouldn't have happened I say as one of the people involved in it).Perhaps there should be. There's nothing stopping people from doing it. My point was really that one shouldn't feel obliged to keep a game on narrow rails just to keep all the characters alive, because there are less restrictive ways to mitigate the PC permadeath issue.
Losing a battle can in fact be the end of the game. Not always but it can be. And more importantly, people like to win. We'll accept losing a battle if we absolutely have to, but at the end of the day, we're going to try as hard as we can to win. The difficulty setting of FEF is high, and it's win or lose 99% of the time. Games have adapted to lost battles. But that doesn't mean that it's the optimal ending or that there wasn't a better way to handle it.I'm going to have to disagree with you about the supreme importance of winning. It's better to lose in an eventful, character-rich game than to win in one that is pure grinding ennui. And again, nothing is stopping you from lowering the difficulty, if that's the limiting factor. It's just a knob for the GM to turn.
People are allowed to try new things and do stuff. The problem comes when your "trying new things" affects people other than your character. No one wants to die because someone else made a stupid decision. There needs to be give and take with this creativity that you want.Of course it will affect other people. Interacting with each other and the GM's world, doing things we can't do in reality, that's the whole point of role-playing games. Do you get pissed when you die because the GM made the "stupid decision" to let the big monster attack your character, too?
Players should be free to play their characters as they see fit, short of willfully sabotaging the game. For example, Adrien's behavior in FEF 1 strayed somewhat close to sabotage, but even that was successfully integrated into the story, leading to unique events and promoting character interaction (because here was something that was hard to ignore, sides to take, etc.).
If you want a game like that, you run it. You're coming in here telling us why we're wrong and how it could be so much better. So prove it. Go run it. Show us why your ideas are better than ours instead of sitting back and saying "Ah yes, I was right, see?" Because right now you're being a bit of an asshole and that's not going to make anyone want to listen to you.Yeah, you have a point there. While there's nothing wrong with making a suggestion, it's better to actually do something yourself. But muh
Post by: Swordstar on July 12, 2017, 03:33:25 pm
stuff
I never said that losing was bad. I said that people like winning. The fact of the matter is, people are going to want to try and do everything that they can to try and win. If we lose, it happens. It sucks because it's not the ideal, but it happens. You say it's better to lose in a character-rich game, I would argue it's better to win in a character rich game. You keep acting like planning and the like is the killer of everything. I argue that plans are the background that can be supported by good character interactions. For instance, over in FH we're in a bit of a less than ideal situation, but we're still working with characters IC since we let Senija kill a boss after letting Harlan steal weapons etc. And then we planned some other things because there isn't a specific IC need to do things. You're acting like making plans ruins creativity when that's just straight up not true.
There's affecting people and there's *affecting* people. Having your actions affect people is fine. Having your actions get other people killed is not ok. And yes, I would get pissed at a GM that made a too hard boss that resulted in my character getting killed. That's not fun. My character getting killed because someone else does something stupid for the sake of IC is not fun. If Adrien had gotten anyone but himself killed, it wouldn't have been fun.
You're stuck in doing things your way and refusing to admit that there's potential for melding of the two. Planning is not the be all end all but it is useful at points. Character interaction is very important. But it needs to be balanced with working to make sure the RP continues in a way that isn't constantly running the risk of everyone dying because that's stressful and not fun.
Post by: Solymr on July 12, 2017, 03:43:10 pm
Not only that, you're also not so subtly insulting everyone who doesn't agree with you, which you conveniently forgot to mention in your post after being called out.
Even if you have some valid points that is absolutely no way to go on about arguing them and I've had enough of it in this thread. Unless it's to apologize for calling people imbeciles (after you've missed several 90+% attacks tell me whether you like predictability or not) don't bother to post here again.
Post by: Solymr on July 15, 2017, 02:37:32 pm
Beginner Emblem is now open for applications?
Post by: randomgenericusername on July 16, 2017, 08:36:21 pm
Post by: Azrayel on July 17, 2017, 02:48:44 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'd like that character as a sprite/mug, but lack much skill in the arts of photo editing. I know she's Flavia (http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Flavia) from Fire Emblem Awakening. There's a few pretty good shots of her face out there so the mug's all settled, how does one go about making/asking to have a sprite made though?
Post by: wolfchild on July 17, 2017, 03:11:11 am
Post by: Azrayel on July 17, 2017, 12:53:53 pm
Mug: (http://i.imgur.com/8b4E7kx.png)
Sprite: (http://i.imgur.com/ck5LhdZ.png)
Post by: Solymr on July 17, 2017, 01:35:22 pm
Post by: IronyOwl on July 17, 2017, 07:08:39 pm
I need help with a mug for the beginner game. I uh dont really have anything specific but that it should be male, have red hair and that is going to be a priest trainee so maybe something like robes? totally underage, between 18 and 14. Its very ambiguous I know. I think I will be ok with almost anything.Where have our spriters gone D:
(http://i.imgur.com/ZABRgJZ.png)
Unhappy with leaving his eye blue, but they're complex enough to not really want to mess with them.
Post by: randomgenericusername on July 17, 2017, 07:33:22 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 17, 2017, 07:47:40 pm
guise help I can't find the thing with shurikens, darts and knives someone (I think Furtuka) made
dat me
tada (https://pastebin.com/9feJiMjV)
Post by: I_Like_Pi on July 17, 2017, 11:13:55 pm
Where have our spriters gone D:Into hiding.
Post by: Azrayel on July 17, 2017, 11:16:03 pm
Post by: I_Like_Pi on July 17, 2017, 11:28:29 pm
Post by: Azrayel on July 18, 2017, 01:02:30 am
Just logged on to check and it doesn't seem down.
The irc.darkmyst.org url redirects me to some page claiming the webhosts have nothing at that location, which it didn't start doing until late today. Mayhaps it's an issue on my side but I'm getting it from 2 different computers.
edit: found a way around it, seems to be an issue specific to trying to go directly to the link, can just google the site.
Post by: Solymr on July 18, 2017, 05:04:23 am
guise help I can't find the thing with shurikens, darts and knives someone (I think Furtuka) made
dat me
tada (https://pastebin.com/9feJiMjV)
ayy
Post by: Solymr on July 21, 2017, 10:44:20 am
If someone can proofread/gibe opinion I'd appreciate it :v
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 21, 2017, 12:30:53 pm
Also I thought we weren't restricting knights to just lances. Also rip new hold the line
Why did Mercenaries lose Get your Weight on?
Lock Mastery has a typo.
I think either no weapons can go in the bag of holding, or all can. It feels weird that just because a rogue can use a weapon they can't go in the bag.
Marked for Death should either never target bosses or should not apply to allies.
Other than all that, looks good to me. The new stat format is nicer, and it's good to have the book have so many fewer contradictions to how the game tends to be played.
Post by: Solymr on July 21, 2017, 12:35:46 pm
Reliable Attack's actual function seems to have been cut off.
Also I thought we weren't restricting knights to just lances. Also rip new hold the line
Why did Mercenaries lose Get your Weight on?
Lock Mastery has a typo.
I think either no weapons can go in the bag of holding, or all can. It feels weird that just because a rogue can use a weapon they can't go in the bag.
Marked for Death should either never target bosses or should not apply to allies.
Other than all that, looks good to me. The new stat format is nicer, and it's good to have the book have so many fewer contradictions to how the game tends to be played.
Thanke. Note that this is essentially my house rules. The typos and me forgetting stuff aren't part of those tho :v
I can also share the word document I used so that everyone can make their own handbook with minimal changes, so if you want it I can post it here.
Post by: SOLDIER First on July 21, 2017, 12:36:04 pm
Post by: Solymr on July 22, 2017, 10:44:41 am
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on July 22, 2017, 06:05:04 pm
Post by: IronyOwl on July 22, 2017, 06:26:38 pm
The laziest recolor. Pretty sure it's tied for that honor, but still.
Post by: Sirus on July 22, 2017, 06:28:57 pm
Post by: Solymr on July 22, 2017, 06:43:03 pm
Post by: Wolfhunter107 on July 22, 2017, 06:45:58 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/TPZPk8W.png)
The laziest recolor. Pretty sure it's tied for that honor, but still.
Lazy or not, it'll work just fine for me. Thanks a whole bunch, especially for doing it on such short notice.
Post by: Solymr on July 24, 2017, 12:29:07 pm
Handbook doc (https://www.dropbox.com/s/vjofetvyk1zt67s/Players%20Handbook%20v1.Salt.docx?dl=0)
I included all classes and weapon tables in the index so you can quickly go to their pages by clicking on them.
Edit: now I included the Butler/Maid and promotions and the Dread Fighter. If anyone can find a pic for them and/or write a piece of blurb it's mucho appreciated.
Post by: Solymr on July 28, 2017, 10:12:21 am
Handbook pdf (https://www.dropbox.com/s/vex1ntiw6orvp0s/Players%20Handbook%20v1.Salt.pdf?dl=0)
Handbook doc (https://www.dropbox.com/s/vjofetvyk1zt67s/Players%20Handbook%20v1.Salt.docx?dl=0)
And now they have blurb and pic. Credit to Blade Master for the blurb.
Post by: Solymr on July 29, 2017, 02:53:59 pm
https://discord.gg/mTnp9H
Post by: Solymr on July 30, 2017, 03:50:04 pm
link that doesn't expire here
Post by: Zetaark on July 31, 2017, 12:15:40 pm
Spoiler: 1.3 to Current 1.Salt Changelist (click to show/hide)
If there are comments or errors or things I missed, let me know so I can fix them up.
Post by: OceanSoul on August 03, 2017, 10:28:05 am
Post by: Solymr on August 03, 2017, 10:32:16 am
So, I'm pre-preparing a Samurai character for a future FEF, and I have a few questions. Firstly, in the FE universe, how do tomes work? Not in a mechanical gameplay sense, but how are tomes made, how do they work? Second, would a progression rate of 60 or 70 speed be effective at avoiding damage with base 10-20 defenses and 60 base health, or would the attacks that do hit be too crippling at near/under 1/2 health? Thirdly, does Ignis activation set the weapon on fire briefly, and if not, could it?
Most lore depends on the GM running it, so you're better off asking when you apply. For the second, that's hell of effective, just look in my game for an Ignis Samurai. As for the third, same for the first, but generally yeah that's the effect but with undefined imbuing.
Post by: Haspen on August 03, 2017, 11:27:54 am
Entry in about a month or so ;v Check details at linku.
Post by: Solymr on August 03, 2017, 04:32:42 pm
- Cavaliers and their special: Reliable Attack seems to me like a bit useless for a once per battle ability.
- Knights: New Hold the Line or not?
- Spies: I gave half Ambush to Dread Fighters, and I don't know if give them the same Ambush with +10 Crit bonus instead of counternegate or a version of traps and then give Master Spy even more traps and improved.
- Battle Mage: they get a free skill but some new classes get that plus something else so I need something for these people too. Maybe specialization with magic?
- Increase HP cost of Memory Magic.
- Summoners: their summon sucks so my new idea is a single summon that levels up with the Summoner and they get to pick progression and perks on key levels.
- Nerf Light magic in general.
- Need a new mechanic for Warding magic. Maybe convert part of damage done into a shield with various properties depending of tome.
- Ballistas: need reworking. Also Ballistician could have an Archer own Ballistas that can be deployed in the map.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on August 03, 2017, 04:41:43 pm
- Spies: I gave half Ambush to Dread Fighters, and I don't know if give them the same Ambush with +10 Crit bonus instead of counternegate or a version of traps and then give Master Spy even more traps and improved.
Not sure about the rest yet, but this is one I have a definite opinion about. :P
Post by: Sirus on August 03, 2017, 04:44:49 pm
Would have to give a lot more thought to the others, I've never used any of that stuff except for a brief foray into Light Magic.
Post by: Solymr on August 03, 2017, 04:46:43 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 03, 2017, 04:54:38 pm
Post by: Solymr on August 03, 2017, 04:58:11 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 03, 2017, 05:08:26 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on August 04, 2017, 07:34:39 pm
- Cavaliers and their special: Reliable Attack seems to me like a bit useless for a once per battle ability.
It is, but other people already have made some decent suggestions.
- Knights: New Hold the Line or not?
Elaborate. What would change?
- Spies: I gave half Ambush to Dread Fighters, and I don't know if give them the same Ambush with +10 Crit bonus instead of counternegate or a version of traps and then give Master Spy even more traps and improved.
As I said before, definitely give spies traps and master spies better traps. Then again, 'better' traps could simply be the ability to set traps within a certain range rather than on the tile they're on. Like Lv/4 tiles worth of range or something. (Promotion levels that is, not total levels. Being able to set traps up to 10 tiles away is problematic.)
- Battle Mage: they get a free skill but some new classes get that plus something else so I need something for these people too. Maybe specialization with magic?
Why not give them the old skill mage knights used to have, where their damage was weapon+(higher of STR or MAG)?
- Increase HP cost of Memory Magic.
Would you be basing the cost on the proficiency rank of the spell, or what type (Buff, Jdge, Heal, etc.)?
- Summoners: their summon sucks so my new idea is a single summon that levels up with the Summoner and they get to pick progression and perks on key levels.
Pretty cool idea.
- Nerf Light magic in general.
What's broken with Light Magic, again? I've never really played a monk-type so I'm not overly familiar with that school of magic.
- Need a new mechanic for Warding magic. Maybe convert part of damage done into a shield with various properties depending of tome.
Eh, wish I could help with that, but I don't really have any ideas. :/
- Ballistas: need reworking. Also Ballistician could have an Archer own Ballistas that can be deployed in the map.
A deployable ballista sounds good. Archers practically never have a chance to get ahold of one (usually they're so far behind enemy lines - if they're even on a map - that by the time the party gets to it there's no real opportunity to use it) so being able to put one where you want it is cool. It'd probably have to come with the caveat that once it's down, it's down, and can't be recovered until the end of the map.
Post by: Zetaark on August 04, 2017, 07:42:44 pm
Spoiler: 1.Salt Updates Changelist (click to show/hide)
Post by: OceanSoul on August 04, 2017, 11:09:13 pm
Things I want to change in my handbook that I don't have a definite answer about:
I, OceanSoul, have opinions
- Cavaliers and their special: Reliable Attack seems to me like a bit useless for a once per battle ability.Make it continuous, and add a once-per-map that eliminates non-Triangle attack disadvantages (rebuffs, enemy terrain, even Addle. Maybe, instead of that last part, let them activate Parity an amount of times, and if they already had Parity, let them keep the helpful things once per map.
- Knights: New Hold the Line or not?Depends on how it works. Does it add Movement cost to tiles adjacent to the Knight? Or, could enemies not enter and exit range 1 of the Knight that turn? And so
- Spies: I gave half Ambush to Dread Fighters, and I don't know if give them the same Ambush with +10 Crit bonus instead of counternegate or a version of traps and then give Master Spy even more traps and improved. I do think that Master Spies should get better traps, but I feel that some sort of ambushy Overwatch stance (like archers' Called Shot) might work. What I'm thinking is, if the Spy is concealed (whether terrain or behind a wall) instead of attacking, they can name specific enemy units, and if one of those move within a specific range, the spy automatically moves in with movement 2 and attacks them. Archer spies have a little more freedom in choosing how they move beforehand, while thief spies stop the counterattack AND the enemy's turn
- Battle Mage: they get a free skill but some new classes get that plus something else so I need something for these people too. Maybe specialization with magic? How about their old Imbue whatever, but with Anima, Light, and Dark, and that's whatever tome they use? Light reduces damage, Dark reduces Hit, and Anima...reduces damage output...yeah. As for the mobility they lost with Jump, how about giving them an ability that lets them automatically move away from an attacker 1 space for every 2 or 3 movement not used last turn? It can be turned off
- Increase HP cost of Memory Magic. Increase?! You say that like it's overpowered? I though all the hp-to-spell abilities could use a buff, like allowing an alternate cost of a % of tone uses or such? Maybe cause a small-moderate % of spent HP to gradually return?
- Summoners: their summon sucks so my new idea is a single summon that levels up with the Summoner and they get to pick progression and perks on key levels. Specifically, their single summon sucks. Having larger amounts of weaker units to summon can be useful. Up to 3 at Moseley, I'd say. Also, maybe they could get an ability that allows them to summon an Ally to their side from across the map. Maybe temporarily, maybe lasting. Could be X times per map, Y turns to do per Z tiles away, and/or take an amount of HP or % of spellbook charges.
- Nerf Light magic in general. In what way was it OP?
- Need a new mechanic for Warding magic. Maybe convert part of damage done into a shield with various properties depending of tome. Maybe make it a sort of inverse to Druidic. Reduce damage by an amount or % while wielded, and maybe apply an amount of the reduction battles with allies at range 1 or 2, to embody the keep-away warding suggests.
- Ballistas: need reworking. Also Ballistician could have an Archer own Ballistas that can be deployed in the map. Yeah. They would need to spend an amount of turns to build, and only in certain areas. Though, this is still rather unfeasible from a logical perspective.
Post by: I_Like_Pi on August 05, 2017, 01:14:30 am
Things I want to change in my handbook that I don't have a definite answer about:Making it continuous is OP even before the second part. And on that: eliminating all disadvantages is just weighted parity and even that shouldn't go through status conditions like Addle. It needs a rework not a buff.
I, OceanSoul, have opinions
- Cavaliers and their special: Reliable Attack seems to me like a bit useless for a once per battle ability.Make it continuous, and add a once-per-map that eliminates non-Triangle attack disadvantages (rebuffs, enemy terrain, even Addle. Maybe, instead of that last part, let them activate Parity an amount of times, and if they already had Parity, let them keep the helpful things once per map.
- Knights: New Hold the Line or not?Depends on how it works. Does it add Movement cost to tiles adjacent to the Knight? Or, could enemies not enter and exit range 1 of the Knight that turn? And soHold the lines prevent enemies from moving into spaces adjacent to the knight. And whatever you were going to suggest seems to have been cut off.
- Spies: I gave half Ambush to Dread Fighters, and I don't know if give them the same Ambush with +10 Crit bonus instead of counternegate or a version of traps and then give Master Spy even more traps and improved. I do think that Master Spies should get better traps, but I feel that some sort of ambushy Overwatch stance (like archers' Called Shot) might work. What I'm thinking is, if the Spy is concealed (whether terrain or behind a wall) instead of attacking, they can name specific enemy units, and if one of those move within a specific range, the spy automatically moves in with movement 2 and attacks them. Archer spies have a little more freedom in choosing how they move beforehand, while thief spies stop the counterattack AND the enemy's turnThat's just an OP version of archer's new skill because a) you choose the enemy b) you straight up ignore the counter attack if there is one and c) you move after your turn ends (which is probably a pita for a GM on top of that). The archer's skill works because they only control where they stop.
- Battle Mage: they get a free skill but some new classes get that plus something else so I need something for these people too. Maybe specialization with magic? How about their old Imbue whatever, but with Anima, Light, and Dark, and that's whatever tome they use? Light reduces damage, Dark reduces Hit, and Anima...reduces damage output...yeah. As for the mobility they lost with Jump, how about giving them an ability that lets them automatically move away from an attacker 1 space for every 2 or 3 movement not used last turn? It can be turned offDid you... Did you even look at battlemages in the handbook? Battlemages are bows and anima, not bows and all magic types. And giving them access to 4 total weapons types is not going to happen. The second part is just nerfed canto, which is already a powerful skill, that the player doesn't control so it'd create even more coordinate issues. And it was probably axed in the first place because, from what I understand of a lot of 1.3's changes, it was unnecessary.
- Increase HP cost of Memory Magic. Increase?! You say that like it's overpowered? I though all the hp-to-spell abilities could use a buff, like allowing an alternate cost of a % of tone uses or such? Maybe cause a small-moderate % of spent HP to gradually return?No. Just no. Memory magic doesn't need a buff because it allows the unit to use spells they wouldn't normally have or even be able to use with no QL cost. Sure it doesn't really matter on the low level magic but having stuff like sleep for 6 hp with no QL or warp/rescue for 10 hp is really strong/op. The last thing memory magic needs is a buff.
- Summoners: their summon sucks so my new idea is a single summon that levels up with the Summoner and they get to pick progression and perks on key levels. Specifically, their single summon sucks. Having larger amounts of weaker units to summon can be useful. Up to 3 at Moseley, I'd say. Also, maybe they could get an ability that allows them to summon an Ally to their side from across the map. Maybe temporarily, maybe lasting. Could be X times per map, Y turns to do per Z tiles away, and/or take an amount of HP or % of spellbook charges.
In the end, multiple weaker summons will just end up as fodder. The summons in the book are really really weak compared to even the most rng screwed PC unit for the level of the PCs and enemies. As for the second ability: they already have it through memory magic and can use it unlimited times as long as they have the HP.
- Nerf Light magic in general. In what way was it OP?You could look at the handbook yourself y'know. But in short light magic, holy is the main offender, has high/same mt as anima magic, it's also really accurate, all while also giving out free crit. It's literally better thunder magic and has no real downsides when you're setting your own growths
.The first part is basically the shielding idea but applying it to allies, even just adjacent allies, is really op. It would give squishies bulk on top of the dodge tanking they already do and it would make tank characters probably untouchable. Anything that affects allies are either entire classes or skills and bestowing an effect like that to a whole weapon type is really powerful.
- Need a new mechanic for Warding magic. Maybe convert part of damage done into a shield with various properties depending of tome. Maybe make it a sort of inverse to Druidic. Reduce damage by an amount or % while wielded, and maybe apply an amount of the reduction battles with allies at range 1 or 2, to embody the keep-away warding suggests.
- Ballistas: need reworking. Also Ballistician could have an Archer own Ballistas that can be deployed in the map. Yeah. They would need to spend an amount of turns to build, and only in certain areas. Though, this is still rather unfeasible from a logical perspective.If it takes multiple turns to build, aside from like 2, it's not going to be worth it because by the time it's built the party will probably have moved on or will need you to be fighting not building something while they protect you.
Post by: Haspen on August 05, 2017, 06:47:56 am
FEF6 now looking for 1 extra player! (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=158910.msg7526569#msg7526569)
Entry in about a month or so ;v Check details at linku.
Make that 2 vacant slots after Gigla's departure v;
Post by: SOLDIER First on August 05, 2017, 07:03:51 am
Post by: Zetaark on August 06, 2017, 01:52:25 pm
Yet another update for the 1.Salt Handbook
Spoiler: 1.Salt Updates Changelist (click to show/hide)
Post by: I_Like_Pi on August 06, 2017, 06:49:43 pm
Post by: Deidei on August 09, 2017, 04:12:18 am
Post by: Solymr on August 09, 2017, 02:52:22 pm
Quote from: Imbue Arrow
Once per map the BM can combine a bow and a tome to make an attack, using QL from both. The attack uses the highest of STR or MAG (or none if using crossbows), and the highest of each stat of the weapons (including weight). The attack has an additional effect depending on the subcategories of the weapons used:
Fire+Recurve = Explosive Shot : adds bonus damage as if Ignis triggered, uses full stat if Ignis actually triggers
Fire+Longbow = Blinding Fireworks: target enemy and adjacents get -20 Hit debuff for 3 turns
Fire+Crossbow = Weapon Blaster: target enemy gets -5 damage done debuff for 2 turns
Wind+Recurve = Seeking Arrow: can't miss
Wind+Longbow = Tornado: target enemy and adjacents get -20 Evade debuff for 3 turns
Wind+Crossbow = Armor Piercer: target enemy gets -5 DEF/RES debuff for 3 turns
Thunder+Recurve = Death Knell: rolls for crit twice
Thunder+Longbow = Arc Lightning: adjacents to target enemy take half the damage target took
Thunder+Crossbow = Paralyzing Strike: enemy loses all MOV for 2 turns
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on August 09, 2017, 03:12:32 pm
Post by: Swordstar on August 09, 2017, 03:17:44 pm
Post by: Solymr on August 09, 2017, 03:29:24 pm
Here's the idea I had for Battle Mages:Quote from: Imbue ArrowOnce per map the BM can combine a bow and a tome to make an attack, using QL from both. The attack uses the highest of STR or MAG (or none if using crossbows), and the highest of each stat of the weapons (including weight). The attack has an additional effect depending on the subcategories of the weapons used:
Fire+Recurve = Explosive Shot : adds bonus damage as if Ignis triggered, uses full stat if Ignis actually triggers
Fire+Longbow = Blinding Fireworks: target enemy and adjacents get -20 Hit debuff for 3 turns
Fire+Crossbow = Weapon Blaster: target enemy gets -5 damage done debuff for 2 turns
Wind+Recurve = Seeking Arrow: can't miss
Wind+Longbow = Tornado: target enemy and adjacents get -20 Evade debuff for 3 turns
Wind+Crossbow = Armor Piercer: target enemy gets -5 DEF/RES debuff for 3 turns
Thunder+Recurve = Death Knell: rolls for crit twice
Thunder+Longbow = Arc Lightning: adjacents to target enemy take half the damage target took
Thunder+Crossbow = Paralyzing Strike: enemy loses all MOV for 2 turns
On second thought and after debate this is the new option for it:
Quote from: Imbue Arrow
When attacking, the Battle Mage can pick a bow/tome to complement their attack (if using tome/bow to attack respectively). The attack will behave as if the Battle Mage was using the primary weapon used and Ignis had triggered, and uses QL of both weapons. If Ignis triggers on this attack it will use the full stat instead of half.
Also hi new person! If you don't get in FEF6 there will eventually be new games, including beginner ones v:
Post by: GiglameshDespair on August 09, 2017, 03:49:52 pm
Such it uses up a mage tome QL as well but who gives a shit about a use of Fire etc?
Post by: Solymr on August 09, 2017, 03:53:21 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on August 09, 2017, 04:38:27 pm
Making crossbows an exception of Ignis is the kind of thing I'm against - it makes the rules ever more finnicky and labyrinthine, which is something FEF struggles with anyway. It would also mean an archer specced for other bows with ignis would never ever use a xbow as then they're not getting a benefit from their skill.
I suppose you could make a build that takes the specific skill to heal MAG as an archer, and level into battle mage. That would make you change it, take ignis - lose healing but gain +MAG damage to them. Would be pretty good, I iamgine.
Post by: Solymr on August 09, 2017, 04:40:58 pm
Post by: Zetaark on August 11, 2017, 07:31:50 pm
Once again, yet another update for the 1.Salt Handbook, this time with light magic changes, among other things
Spoiler: 1.Salt Updates Changelist (click to show/hide)
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on August 11, 2017, 07:35:28 pm
Post by: OceanSoul on August 11, 2017, 08:58:33 pm
Post by: Solymr on August 12, 2017, 09:11:56 am
Maybe 4x damage on crits or is it unnecessary?
Post by: Sirus on August 12, 2017, 09:16:19 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on August 12, 2017, 09:18:56 am
Post by: Sirus on August 12, 2017, 09:28:35 am
Post by: Solymr on August 12, 2017, 09:34:27 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on August 12, 2017, 09:36:34 am
Post by: Sirus on August 12, 2017, 09:37:58 am
Well, when you put it that way, a bit of extra DR is preferable to increasing crit just by not dropping your shield.+1
Post by: Solymr on August 12, 2017, 09:41:35 am
So 5 DEF for adjacents and 1 DR for each adjacent to the Sentinel?
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on August 12, 2017, 09:54:35 am
Anyway I'm not good with exact numbers, but that sounds OK-ish.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 12, 2017, 10:15:42 am
I think the Sentinel having more offense based skill compared to the alternative General defensive skills makes good gameplay sense.
Post by: Sirus on August 12, 2017, 10:41:05 am
Anyway, Sentinels have Critical Eye. That already makes them more offensively-oriented than Generals or what-have-you. But since Generals are focused entirely on making themselves as tonk as possible, it makes sense in my mind for a Sentinel's defensive focus to spread out a little to his/her allies.
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on August 13, 2017, 01:57:06 am
Post by: wolfchild on August 13, 2017, 02:51:47 am
Ye, if you still to that ability at least change its name. Like Thousand Spears or something that doesn't sound defensive.
I was thinking something similar except all i would do is replace shield with spear in the name, and tadahhh
edit: unless there is already an ability called that, in which case my bad
Post by: Solymr on August 13, 2017, 01:19:47 pm
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=165192.0
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 13, 2017, 05:02:13 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
EDIT: I also want to add some example map snippets with stuff to avoid and whatnot
Post by: Twinwolf on August 13, 2017, 07:43:05 pm
Post by: I_Like_Pi on August 13, 2017, 11:31:31 pm
Post by: Zetaark on August 14, 2017, 04:30:05 pm
Spoiler: 1.Salt Changelist (click to show/hide)
Post by: Solymr on August 14, 2017, 04:31:58 pm
Post by: Sirus on August 14, 2017, 04:53:11 pm
Being able to recover half the HP you heal...that's very very powerful in the right circumstances. Give them a Mend staff and they'll outheal (in terms of total HP restored in a turn) a Priest with the same amount of MAG. The disparity only gets worse as they promote and gain access to higher-leveled staffs. And make no mistake; just about every Servant, unless intentionally gimping themselves, will specialize in the Healing subcategory and thus gain access to those higher-leveled Healing staves. Neither they nor any of their promotions derive benefit from Ailment or Buff staves, but all of them have skills devoted specifically to Healing. And those promotions just make healing staves even more effective.
I dunno. Probably just my in-born conservatism speaking but it seems like every time someone introduces a new class they tend to overshine existing classes.
Post by: Solymr on August 14, 2017, 05:02:52 pm
Being able to recover half the HP you heal...that's very very powerful in the right circumstances.
That's the thing of it. Priests have their selfheal almost always on, and they can heal their own status, but Servants need to use their action to get that benefit. It might be overspecializing a bit, which I don't like, but I didn't get any other good ideas to substitute with :v
Post by: Sirus on August 14, 2017, 05:09:22 pm
There's also the minor fact that even after using actions to heal, a Servant can still counter enemy attacks. Troubadours can do that as well, but they don't get any sources of self-healing other than items.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 14, 2017, 05:16:07 pm
Post by: Swordstar on August 14, 2017, 05:17:56 pm
A lot of higher level staffs don't actually heal for much more than the lower ones do, they just have range or heal multiple people. Add in that priests heal themselves with any heal staff not just a staff that heals people (so soothe, etc) and it starts to balance out. Especially with the changes that have been made to saint and the extra stuff they get now.
Troub has always been a bit of a worse of class, yes, though now they get extra growth to str/mag which should help them somewhat. In general, their promos are a bit more interesting compared to priest and I think they can compare to the Steward and Bodyguard, since bodyguard especially requires investing in def to be useful and steward requires investing in luck to have one of their skills be useful. It's forcing you to invest in two offensive stats, plus at least one other stat which leaves not a lot of room to invest in others, which I think helps balance things out some.
Also never say never when it comes to weapon subcats, people will do plenty of things if they think it fits their character concept :v
Edit: Also troubs get better subcats in first class, though not in promoted class which is maybe something we should consider looking at? Giving them S in one rank and B in the other maybe?
Post by: OceanSoul on August 14, 2017, 05:27:54 pm
Post by: Swordstar on August 15, 2017, 10:13:16 am
https://pastebin.com/gB7GC2sQ
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on August 19, 2017, 02:14:33 pm
https://pastebin.com/BUim22Z2
And "killer" weapons for the subcategories lacking them here. Again none of these are fully balance or tested, some might give an underwhelming result, so feedback is important when testing them. Also jesus, blugdeon and crush weapons suuuucks.
https://pastebin.com/eiZE9nDy
Post by: Zetaark on August 24, 2017, 06:19:01 pm
Spoiler: 1.Salt 8/24 update (click to show/hide)
Post by: SOLDIER First on August 25, 2017, 03:24:14 am
Post by: Sirus on August 25, 2017, 11:34:50 am
Post by: Solymr on August 25, 2017, 12:03:54 pm
Post by: Solymr on August 26, 2017, 06:11:09 am
Post by: Zetaark on August 27, 2017, 04:57:34 pm
Spoiler: 1.Salt 8/27 update (click to show/hide)
Post by: OceanSoul on August 29, 2017, 07:40:19 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on August 29, 2017, 07:49:46 am
Post by: OceanSoul on August 29, 2017, 07:57:55 am
Your link's broken dude. >.>Fix'd, and thank you for mentioning it.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on August 29, 2017, 08:01:08 am
Post by: OceanSoul on August 29, 2017, 10:09:04 am
Post by: Solymr on September 01, 2017, 05:30:50 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on September 01, 2017, 05:39:14 am
Post by: Swordstar on September 01, 2017, 07:25:34 am
I just found or refound that Cavaliers have 8 CON starting as first class but they get 4+3 if starting from trainee. Same thing happens to Wyvern Riders, but not to Pegasus Riders. What went wrong here?
Check to see what numbers they need to get to 60 total stats and then penalize one of their other bonuses of needed
Post by: Solymr on September 01, 2017, 07:32:39 am
Post by: Swordstar on September 01, 2017, 08:08:03 am
60 points is for first class
Post by: Zetaark on September 01, 2017, 05:02:42 pm
Spoiler: 1.Salt 9/1 change-log (click to show/hide)
Edit: addition of some mage promo bonus changes.
Post by: Chevaleresse on September 01, 2017, 05:08:14 pm
Contains:
-Kinshi Knight (renamed to Pegasus Hunter), a flying bow/lance class
-Oni Chieftain (Needs a new name, thinking Reaver for now), an axe/anima class
-Malig Knight, a flying axe/dark class
-Basara (renamed to Freelancer), a lance/light class
-Dark Knight, a mounted sword/lance/dark class
Post by: Solymr on September 02, 2017, 09:06:42 am
-For Bandit: a new skill named Reckless Strike: on their turn the Bandit can choose to deal 3 bonus damage while lowering their DEF and RES by 3. The bonus damage only applies to the first attack if doubling.
-For Fighter:
-For Pirate: Rapid Strike: on their turn the Pirate can double a target they couldn't normally, but both attacks have -15 Hit.
-For Swashbuckler: Perfect Balance now gives +10 bonus Crit if they have WTA.
-For Warrior:
Post by: Sirus on September 02, 2017, 09:20:06 am
Also, it seems badly balanced. You're gaining 3 "stat points" but losing 6. I would drop the DEF/RES loss to 2 each, making it a bit more fair.
Post by: Solymr on September 02, 2017, 09:35:53 am
Post by: Sirus on September 02, 2017, 09:41:10 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 02, 2017, 10:10:12 am
For Warrior I talked about this in the chat, but combined with Rough and Tumble I think the capacity to ignore any defensive terrain/associated abilities is too much.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on September 02, 2017, 09:01:57 pm
-For Pirate: Rapid Strike: on their turn the Pirate can double a target they couldn't normally, but both attacks have -15 Hit.
-For Swashbuckler: Perfect Balance now gives +10 bonus Crit if they have WTA.
Said it before in the chat but might as well say it in thread: I like these two, don't care for the others. :P
Post by: I_Like_Pi on September 02, 2017, 09:14:53 pm
-For Pirate: Rapid Strike: on their turn the Pirate can double a target they couldn't normally, but both attacks have -15 Hit.
-For Swashbuckler: Perfect Balance now gives +10 bonus Crit if they have WTA.
Said it before in the chat but might as well say it in thread: I like these two, don't care for the others. :P
Same though bandit skill seems good.
Post by: Chevaleresse on September 02, 2017, 10:15:44 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 02, 2017, 10:23:12 pm
Post by: Zetaark on September 03, 2017, 01:42:15 pm
Spoiler: 1.Salt 9/3 update (click to show/hide)
Post by: Solymr on September 04, 2017, 08:50:57 am
-Mages dunking Meditate and getting Precision Strike: on their turn they can make an attack with +20 Hit and -2 DMG that can't double.
-Spies: Traps or not? New skill choices include Stillness when on defensive terrain and Backstab: bonus damage or crit when attacking a target with another ally behind.
-Renewal: 10% is crap, 20% is too good? Where does 15% fall?
Post by: Shogus00 on September 06, 2017, 02:12:14 pm
Post by: Solymr on September 06, 2017, 02:15:42 pm
They're on our backlog though.
Post by: SOLDIER First on September 06, 2017, 05:07:53 pm
Where can I find the Game Masters Guide, Enemy Manual and the expansions?Generally, any questions you might have about GMing that are too specific to be covered in the basic handbook can be answered by most current or previous GMs, including Solymr himself, Blade Master Model42 or BMM42, Haspen, I_Like_Pi, swordstar, and myself.
Statting enemies is a bit harder, but a starting rule of thumb is to put them a few levels above the players. I believe BMM42 also made a small thing for calculating enemy stats based on level; it's somewhere in the hub.
I believe someone named FOE once made a game based around the monster classes, but he left the forum a while ago, so I'm not sure where their statlines can be found. You can always try scouring the old threads like a GM-vulture. ;P
Post by: Sirus on September 06, 2017, 05:11:14 pm
Prices for items. Obviously they should be open to individual GM interpretation, but a simple baseline for the value of iron vs steel weapons would be nice, or the average cost of a stat booster. Just to use two examples.
Post by: Haspen on September 06, 2017, 05:30:18 pm
Stat boosters would be around 500-800 range :v
This is me speaking for prices in my games, but I modeled it after pricing in GBA Fire Emblems.
Post by: Solymr on September 06, 2017, 05:54:14 pm
Post by: Sirus on September 06, 2017, 06:01:52 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on September 06, 2017, 06:05:54 pm
[edit] adds :P because i didn't mean to seem rude
Post by: Sirus on September 06, 2017, 06:11:00 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on September 06, 2017, 06:13:14 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 06, 2017, 08:55:01 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on September 06, 2017, 09:11:54 pm
*For further information, see the Shields of Caermo IC Thread.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 06, 2017, 09:37:07 pm
Post by: Solymr on September 25, 2017, 08:40:42 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 25, 2017, 08:51:59 am
Not a fan. It's not terrible, but...
No real use for pirates if they already have a high AS. The defensive use of avoiding being doubled in exchange for an unreliable counterattack is removed by making it PP only. It feels like it'd be useful if you were just marginally below the AS needed for doubling enemies and not very relevant otherwise.
It'd probably be better if it added an extra attack in exchange for a set penalty, in my opinion, or even trading damage for speed - it'd fit better with a lighter, faster attack, and two hits would do more damage than one overall, with a better chance of triggering various skills.
Post by: Solymr on September 25, 2017, 08:59:03 am
The original iteration is another strike in exchange of -20 Hit on both attacks, but the cheese potential is there. There's also the fact that we're not that sure what Pirate's identity is. Trading damage for speed feels like more of a myrmidon or fencer skill, while we don't know whether to reward Pirates having high speed or compensate for them not having as much as other speed focused classes.
Post by: SOLDIER First on September 25, 2017, 09:04:41 am
Post by: Solymr on September 25, 2017, 09:17:17 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 25, 2017, 11:08:19 am
Eeeh.
Not a fan. It's not terrible, but...
No real use for pirates if they already have a high AS. The defensive use of avoiding being doubled in exchange for an unreliable counterattack is removed by making it PP only. It feels like it'd be useful if you were just marginally below the AS needed for doubling enemies and not very relevant otherwise.
It'd probably be better if it added an extra attack in exchange for a set penalty, in my opinion, or even trading damage for speed - it'd fit better with a lighter, faster attack, and two hits would do more damage than one overall, with a better chance of triggering various skills.
I agree with pretty much everything here, and maintain that the 20 hit penalty in exchange for a second attack is a good framework, and that we can further balance it by giving a damage penalty if deemed necessary.
As for accusations of cheese: it is my opinion that the degree of cheese is the only thing worth examining. This game is at its best when we're examining how four different mechanics work together at once and using the result to upend a scenario.
That's just my opinion though.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 25, 2017, 11:24:24 am
Maybe they have a once-per-map ability of smashing chests or something, so they don't need a key but it takes 1 use from their weapon?Once per map they can do what the thief does already slightly differently?
I'm not a fan of abilities like that because quite frankly they're not going to come up all that much, even in games where the GM goes out the way to set that stuff up. Depending on the map it's a decent chance to never be relevant at all, which is quite definitely bad.
Post by: Culise on September 25, 2017, 12:21:14 pm
That said, I'm not sure we've had parties feel "forced" to take a thief or scavenger with them. Unlike the games, most GMs in games with parties lacking lockpicking don't tend to make unavailable chests just to taunt the players to my recollection. At the most, they'll dump the job on an NPC. As such, that particular notion might be a solution in want of a problem. Rather, if it did become a problem somewhere/somehow, Pirates could simply be given the Lockpick skill directly. :P
Post by: SOLDIER First on September 25, 2017, 01:07:04 pm
Post by: IronyOwl on September 25, 2017, 02:56:02 pm
There's also the fact that we're not that sure what Pirate's identity is.I feel like this is the real issue here. If you're not sure where you're supposed to be going, it's rather hard to get there. Thus far we've had like three different ideas people don't like because they're what another class does/should do.
Post by: Swordstar on October 05, 2017, 06:25:09 pm
Post by: Solymr on October 06, 2017, 01:55:50 am
Post by: Swordstar on October 06, 2017, 07:16:29 am
Post by: Haspen on October 30, 2017, 11:52:54 am
Up to CrickEt if he wants ownership to continue the channel but honestly I dun see point v;
Post by: CrimsonEon on October 30, 2017, 11:54:37 am
Post by: Solymr on October 30, 2017, 11:59:18 am
Post by: Haspen on October 30, 2017, 12:02:51 pm
Post by: Solymr on December 06, 2017, 03:15:34 pm
Post by: Unlurking Sentinel on December 23, 2017, 10:32:00 pm
Post by: Solymr on January 05, 2018, 04:48:00 pm
Doot doot new game by Gigla
Post by: randomgenericusername on January 07, 2018, 08:58:34 am
Sorry, but could anyone help me with this mug request for monster FEF? Slitted pupils if possible, I don't know how hard is doing any of this so I don't know if I asked too much.Could anyone help me with the mug please? I don't have access to a computer and my art skills are crap. :(Spoiler: Still need a mug, post edited (click to show/hide)
I was thinking of something like Brendan from The Blazing Sword, but with black hair, dark red instead of yellow armor, a small pair of fangs and slightly pointy ears for the more wolf-like appearance.
EDIT: I should probably put the mug request in the FEF hub.
Post by: Furtuka on January 07, 2018, 03:23:13 pm
This good? I missed the slightly in your description at first so lemme know if the ears are too big.
Post by: randomgenericusername on January 07, 2018, 03:40:52 pm
Post by: Furtuka on January 07, 2018, 04:13:14 pm
And now here's a full album of expressions for your use. (https://imgur.com/a/808T7)
Post by: randomgenericusername on January 07, 2018, 04:25:41 pm
Post by: Unlurking Sentinel on January 07, 2018, 04:42:20 pm
Post by: Sirus on January 07, 2018, 04:45:25 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 07, 2018, 05:05:23 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 07, 2018, 07:34:09 pm
Also, some of us just like doing it. It can help express a character's personality if their casting mug's SFX looks like this (https://www.dropbox.com/s/mvkpmlv223xvekj/Casting.png?raw=1) as opposed to (https://www.dropbox.com/s/insvtngfcktjt46/Casting.png?raw=1) or (https://www.dropbox.com/s/xw6e3wugks3wh40/Casting.png?raw=1) or (https://www.dropbox.com/s/aakx041jpndvrny/Casting.png?raw=1) , for example.Is... is lily swearing at the viewer...?
Post by: I_Like_Pi on January 07, 2018, 07:35:01 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 07, 2018, 08:50:34 pm
Post by: Parsely on January 08, 2018, 12:00:49 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on January 11, 2018, 08:57:17 pm
Resurrection: Do not halve healing when applied to downed characters.
Not really gimmicky, real useful in the endgame, and will be useful even on Valks that don't spec into magic, because of base healing from staves.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 11, 2018, 09:15:30 pm
Post by: Sirus on January 11, 2018, 09:28:17 pm
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on January 11, 2018, 09:30:14 pm
So yeah. Resurrection looks good to me. A guaranteed critical ain't bad but Triangle Attack is kinda bland and pretty much only going to be used on the boss of a map. Plus Resurrection is useful for less offensive-orientated Valkyries as well, such as those that promoted from Troubadour and so on. Thumbs up all around.
Post by: RoseHeart on January 12, 2018, 12:58:52 am
Post by: I_Like_Pi on January 12, 2018, 01:24:26 am
There is this.
Post by: Swordstar on January 12, 2018, 10:09:24 am
Post by: Solymr on January 12, 2018, 10:14:32 am
I can't check right now but I think Nomad Healers have some variation of this as well? But for staves maybe it should take 2 uses of a heal staff to heal for full with Resurrection.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on January 12, 2018, 10:20:13 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on January 12, 2018, 10:22:01 am
Though now that I think about it, it could create problems with fortify, the aoe heal staff. Maybe change that to only target allies who are up? Even without Resurrection, that staff probably shouldn't behave like Mercy's old ultimate.
Post by: Solymr on January 12, 2018, 10:37:13 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on January 12, 2018, 10:54:38 am
Post by: Swordstar on January 12, 2018, 10:58:54 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on January 12, 2018, 11:02:42 am
Post by: RoseHeart on January 12, 2018, 08:57:16 pm
Is there a handy online editor, or generator, for FE portrait?
https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/7l6wuk/i_love_gba_fire_emblem_spritesportraits_so_i_made/
There is this.
Anything online/phone compatible ._.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 12, 2018, 09:10:30 pm
It is? Huh. For some reason I thought it was A rank. Oh well, problem solved. That being the case I don't think we need a 'no multi heal' clause. Admittedly it could then be achieved through Discipline but if someone wants to build around that for a particular S rank item I wouldn't want to squash that.
This. +1
@roseheart: Sadly, I don't think so. I've never heard of one anyway.
Post by: Doomblade187 on January 12, 2018, 10:26:36 pm
Post by: Solymr on January 15, 2018, 02:50:30 pm
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3wevjg5d2yafbqo/CALCULATOR.rar?dl=0
It saves character and weapon sheets for later use and gives out formatted results with rolled hit and crit. It doesn't do effective damage or other bonuses and skills yet, but that's on the list of things to add. For now, this should work as a basic calculator for FEF battles.
Post by: Solymr on January 16, 2018, 04:06:29 pm
FEF Calculator now also has a level rolling function, enjoy ;v
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on January 16, 2018, 04:26:45 pm
Post by: RoseHeart on January 17, 2018, 12:35:19 am
Clarification: Ideally a website with a collection I can use w/o editing a image. For now I'd just cherry pick ones from old sessions.
Post by: Solymr on January 17, 2018, 03:48:25 am
Post by: Swordstar on January 17, 2018, 10:03:04 am
Is there a collection of fire emblem head portraits somewhere I can I peruse?
Clarification: Ideally a website with a collection I can use w/o editing a image. For now I'd just cherry pick ones from old sessions.
You shouldn't take mugs that other people made without asking their permission just as an fyi
Post by: SOLDIER First on January 17, 2018, 10:07:16 am
Post by: RoseHeart on January 17, 2018, 02:16:31 pm
Helpful(?) Resources:
Some PC Tool (https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/7l6wuk/i_love_gba_fire_emblem_spritesportraits_so_i_made/)
OR
Sprite Map (http://i.imgur.com/TwEvuNP.png)
Online BG Remover/Resizer/Cropper (about 75 pixels tall seems norm) (https://www140.lunapic.com/editor/?action=edit-menu)
OR
Perhaps asking to burrow one from an old game here. But so far the one person I asked said no, so might take some luck/nice person. Maybe a 'stock/retired' character dump, would be useful for those not patient, artistically, or technologically inclined to make their own.
This is what I came up with. But for phone users..
(http://i.imgur.com/Gm5lqNn.jpg)"This won't be easy..."
Post by: SOLDIER First on January 17, 2018, 02:18:15 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 17, 2018, 02:48:22 pm
Post by: RoseHeart on January 17, 2018, 03:25:28 pm
I mean, if you're that desperate, you could just use the ones used in the fire emblem games themselves.
Google hasn't been my friend.
Post by: Swordstar on January 17, 2018, 03:28:02 pm
Post by: Solymr on January 17, 2018, 03:28:36 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on January 17, 2018, 03:29:31 pm
Fire Emblem 7, The Blazing Blade. (https://www.spriters-resource.com/game_boy_advance/fireemblemtheblazingblade/sheet/38459/)
Fire Emblem 8, The Sacred Stones. (https://www.spriters-resource.com/game_boy_advance/fireemblemthesacredstones/sheet/14464/)
Download the files, pick your favorite person, crop out the background and bing bang boom you're done.
Post by: RoseHeart on January 17, 2018, 03:38:05 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on January 17, 2018, 03:40:17 pm
FE7 (https://www.spriters-resource.com/game_boy_advance/fireemblemtheblazingblade/sheet/47384/)
FE8 (https://www.spriters-resource.com/game_boy_advance/fireemblemthesacredstones/sheet/53755/)
There are a lot to choose from.
Post by: RoseHeart on January 17, 2018, 03:42:31 pm
There are a lot to choose from.
Thank you.
Post by: SOLDIER First on January 17, 2018, 03:45:03 pm
Post by: RoseHeart on January 17, 2018, 11:40:36 pm
I might be persuaded to be a guest enemy for a map, I'll just drop that offer here.
Spoiler: Cameo (click to show/hide)
Post by: Swordstar on February 03, 2018, 06:03:25 pm
Post by: Sirus on February 05, 2018, 04:08:46 pm
I'll be leaving on a sort of road trip this Friday, and I won't be home until sometime late Wednesday. I have no idea what my options will be regarding posting moves or RP in any FEF; there might be WiFi, or I might be using data, or maybe I'll just be completely incommunicado. Will see how it goes.
Anyway, if I don't drop any sort of posts or messages by the end of Saturday I officially give permission to move for me in any game.
Post by: Caleocek on February 07, 2018, 02:54:14 pm
I do stupid homebrews when I'm bored.
So here's a thing that'll never be used, but I don't care: I'm sharing anyway (https://pastebin.com/ZnTav7C6)
Post by: Rockeater on March 29, 2018, 02:09:00 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 29, 2018, 08:03:16 am
Spoiler: New Magic Classes (click to show/hide)
So as you may have gleaned from the spoiler, the weapons that the Baron receives is under discussion. I am currently lobbying for:
Dark/Light, Anima, and Lance. Three weapons, which is a fairly diverse kit.
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 29, 2018, 08:11:29 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 29, 2018, 08:33:54 am
As to having four weapons: Barons would need to be locked at 4 C ranks, barring them from end game weapons and never being able to use something a first class unit could not. As there's a fairly sharp jump up between C and B rank weapons, this would leave Barons with low potential damage throughout the endgame. The only other class that does this is Bounty Hunters and they get Omni-Weapon to cover their weapon rank limitation problems.
Realistically, you really only need two of three weapons to have good triangle control, since you can beat two things and be neutral on a third. Having all three is just gravy, especially if you're getting a weapon off of the other triangle on top of that, as you suggest. This is another area where the Bounty Hunter beats the proposed weapon setup for Barons, since they get two and two, allowing for strong control of either triangle, rather than dominating one and dipping a toe in the other.
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 29, 2018, 08:56:09 am
Bounty Hunters indeed have Omniweapon but they can’t use high-rank weapons nearly as effectively as a character with the required efficiency. No Weight reduction as well as a penalty for every rank they don’t have in that weapon really puts a damper on their versatility, even if it is pretty sweet to run around with Gespenst and The World and all that. Barons have a lot fewer options than Bounty Hunters.
Additionally, this hypothetical four-weapon Baron could easily ditch Runic Armor in exchange for the extra ranks. Most of your points about reduced effectiveness hinge on the “requirement” of reducing maximum weapon ranks in exchange for having more of them; why not just get rid of that requirement in the first place?
Post by: Swordstar on March 29, 2018, 09:14:09 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 29, 2018, 09:31:13 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 29, 2018, 09:36:51 am
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on March 29, 2018, 09:37:56 am
Other than that it looks fine to me, but obviously the details could use a bit of tweaking by someone with more FE experience. Or at least someone with stronger opinions.
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 29, 2018, 09:38:50 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 29, 2018, 09:40:54 am
The most important thing I have to really say about the classes is that 'Press the Assault' really needs to be limited to once a turn or something similar. As much of an edge case as it'll be, having a Tactician and Performer work together to blitz the enemy in a single turn is something to worry about.
That is a good point. I'll add a clause to prevent it.
Barons don’t have a massive weight penalty on their higher ranks of weapons.
Bounty Hunters only suffer penalties on weapons above their skill ceiling. Barons can't use weapons above their skill ceiling at all.
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 29, 2018, 09:43:49 am
Barons have the bonus of actually practically useful magic versatility.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 29, 2018, 09:53:15 am
If they keep Runic Armor instead, they get nothing above C rank. That means not even a Silver Lance.
Post by: Chevaleresse on March 29, 2018, 10:01:20 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 29, 2018, 10:02:53 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 29, 2018, 10:03:54 am
I believe I suggested Baron (or some renamed variant) be first class at one point, in order to provide more variety in Armored classes as well; I'd like to put that forth as an option again.
What tree would it belong to? What would it promote to? What skill would it have? Making Baron a first class is a pretty vague suggestion.
Post by: Swordstar on March 29, 2018, 10:05:08 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 29, 2018, 10:06:28 am
Post by: Twinwolf on March 29, 2018, 10:10:03 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 29, 2018, 10:12:49 am
Post by: Swordstar on March 29, 2018, 10:13:03 am
Well, as far as I’m aware Armored is a one-class skill for Knights. Literally no other first class has it. It wouldn’t be unnecessary in my opinion.
That's kinda my point. It would be like saying we need more Pegasus classes or Wyvern classes or more classes with the raid skill. What does it give us beyond more classes that are weak to armor slaying weapons? Giving it to things on promo is slightly different because promo classes are already more varied so adding an armoured skill isn't going to change that.
Post by: Chevaleresse on March 29, 2018, 10:13:35 am
Promotes and such would need to be determined, but there's a lot of space in what we could do with them. Ssme for class skill; Runic Armor could be used, though it'd be best to come up with something slightly more reliable imo.
(Off the top of my head, it could promote to the current version, and the additional promote could be General (inheriting their extant tome prof and gaining axes), an armored healer class (call it Hospitalier or something,) or whatever else we cam come up with.)
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 29, 2018, 10:15:46 am
And reducing it to “a weakness to Armorslayers” is pretty inaccurate, considering Armored actually does something in this version of the book.
Post by: Swordstar on March 29, 2018, 10:18:58 am
...Except we don’t? Because one first class and two promoted classes have Armored, while there are many more classes with Horseback/Wyvern/Pegasus.
And reducing it to “a weakness to Armorslayers” is pretty inaccurate, considering Armored actually does something in this version of the book.
Err. There's one base class for each of peg and Wyvern and two each of promo. So that part is wrong. And yes it does more but my point stays the same. What does adding more classes with armored give? How are they different from knight? What makes them a unique class?
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 29, 2018, 10:20:17 am
Well, the Baron is a magic class, which is pretty different from being a Knight almost by default.
Post by: Chevaleresse on March 29, 2018, 10:23:01 am
I lump wyverns and pegasi together under fliers, personally, so we have two FC/4 promo.
Post by: Swordstar on March 29, 2018, 10:23:55 am
And yeah my point was basically Wyvern and Pegasus are the same as armored. They're a skill on one class tree that gives a bonus and a negative.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 29, 2018, 10:24:31 am
Tree? Assuming you mean trainee tree, it'd probably come from mage trainee as a magically focused class, unless another set of trainees is being introduced (which is worth discussing, really, since mage trainee may need to be split up into anima and dark cats, alongside an additional potential split for priest trainee.)
Promotes and such would need to be determined, but there's a lot of space in what we could do with them. Ssme for class skill; Runic Armor could be used, though it'd be best to come up with something slightly more reliable imo.
(Off the top of my head, it could promote to the current version, and the additional promote could be General (inheriting their extant tome prof and gaining axes), an armored healer class (call it Hospitalier or something,) or whatever else we cam come up with.)
I really don't want this hypothetical class promoting to general. That's the Knight's thing and it ought to stay that way, and futzing with their weapon availability further is weird. If we were to do that, would Knights be able to take magic on promo? Even if the answer is yes, I'm not on board.
And since we'll be implementing either my suggested first classes or other ones to diversify the mage classes, we probably should separate mage trainee into anima mage trainee, light mage trainee, and dark mage trainee or something similar. That is a good point.
Runic Armor in the current form would need to be a promoted class skill, as building up to +6 Damage is strong as hell at first class. If you made the current version of Baron into a promotion for mini-baron, that could be an option, but I'm not really sold.
Hospitalier is an alright idea that I miiiiiight steal for Lightworker's second promotion if we don't otherwise use it. Though I'm not sure what class skill it would have.
My mistake, I thought you meant the three mount types as a collective. It’s still not a lot.
Well, the Baron is a magic class, which is pretty different from being a Knight almost by default.
Giving them a different weapon isn't enough to differentiate them. Sword Knights, Lance Knights, and Axe Knights are all still knights. Magic Knights wouldn't be significantly different.
Post by: Chevaleresse on March 29, 2018, 10:25:51 am
Exaggeration, obviously, but you can have two classes with passingly similar roles.
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 29, 2018, 10:26:05 am
Post by: Swordstar on March 29, 2018, 10:28:07 am
...No they’re not, because Armored is only damage reduction, while Pegasus and Wyvern give you extra mobility, increased rescuing ability, and the ability to ignore terrain. They’re in completely different classes.
Yes and Pegasus and Wyvern gives a much wider range of things you're weak to. Larger rewards in exchange for higher risk.
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 29, 2018, 10:29:29 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 29, 2018, 10:30:13 am
...No they’re not, because Armored is only damage reduction, while Pegasus and Wyvern give you extra mobility, increased rescuing ability, and the ability to ignore terrain. They’re in completely different classes.
That just means the bonuses they give are different. And because those bonuses are more powerful, there are more anti-class weapons that apply to them. You haven't really invalidated sword's point there.
The job of 90% of first classes is to be a damage dealer, why don't we just drop down to Damager, Horseman, and Flier?
Exaggeration, obviously, but you can have two classes with passingly similar roles.
You can but that doesn't mean you should. We've spent a lot of time and energy diversifying other classes (Bandit/Pirate as the obvious example), why would we double back on that?
If you want an armored mage class, they should ideally be filling a niche that isn't already filled.
Post by: Chevaleresse on March 29, 2018, 10:42:30 am
EDIT: Basically what I'm saying is that it's not unlike having three axe classes that are all generally hitting the same "bulky offense" niche.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 29, 2018, 10:49:10 am
I do want to know which school of magic they would have though, so I can figure out which class from my list I should cut. I'd prefer not Dark because the new ones I've got for that are pretty clearly defined already.
Post by: Chevaleresse on March 29, 2018, 10:51:58 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 29, 2018, 10:53:18 am
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on March 29, 2018, 10:58:02 am
Then again I feel like FEF could use more tanky classes in general so I might be a little biased here.
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 29, 2018, 10:59:01 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 29, 2018, 10:59:37 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 29, 2018, 11:02:33 am
Post by: Chevaleresse on March 29, 2018, 11:07:38 am
Oh, I'd assumed that the mini-baron was going to be a single weapon class.Well, all the currently slated promotes are mixed, so they'd have to give up any hope of being good with their future phys weapons in order to hit the same raw power as their Knight cousins.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on March 29, 2018, 11:08:58 am
Well I'm kind of addressing the tanky mage thing with the Ascetic class, so that's no longer an entirely unfilled niche.
Right. I forgot about that. That's good then. I personally would make a new promoted class for them that is focused more on tanking too but they certainly work as is.
I would posit that one class does not a niche fill. :P
Depends on the size of the niche. Tanky Magic User is probably a big enough niche to hold several classes but that doesn't mean it must be filled by several classes. One or two could easily work.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 29, 2018, 11:13:22 am
Oh, I'd assumed that the mini-baron was going to be a single weapon class.Well, all the currently slated promotes are mixed, so they'd have to give up any hope of being good with their future phys weapons in order to hit the same raw power as their Knight cousins.
Or do a center build, but I suppose I see your point in this instance.
It would probably make more sense for them to be, hypothetically, Anima/Lances or somesuch.
So they would be an anima trainee promotion then?
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 29, 2018, 11:15:09 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 29, 2018, 11:41:05 am
Spoiler: Updated mage stuff (click to show/hide)
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 31, 2018, 01:53:36 pm
Spoiler: Updated mage stuff (click to show/hide)
Post by: Unlurking Sentinel on April 04, 2018, 11:33:39 pm
Spoiler: Bad Ideas (click to show/hide)
Post by: Swordstar on April 05, 2018, 07:09:13 am
Post by: Solymr on April 17, 2018, 04:05:16 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 17, 2018, 04:14:12 pm
Post by: Elephant Parade on April 17, 2018, 06:34:53 pm
Post by: GM_3826 on April 19, 2018, 04:08:53 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 19, 2018, 04:39:33 pm
On that note, I believe it should be 5 Crit for 1 Damage based on the next math analysis:
Let's say you have 10 Crit (after dodge) and deal 10 damage. On a hit, 90% of the times it will be 10 damage and 10% of the time it will be 30 damage, the expected value being 10*0.9+30*0.1=12 damage. Therefore for this example 10 Crit is equivalent to 2 damage across many attacks.
For 10 Crit to be equivalent to 1 damage, you'd need to deal 5 damage, which is pretty crappy to begin with. Over 10 damage, even 5:1 means you're losing damage on the long run. Granted, on practice it works a bit different.
But also, PS wise 10 Crit and 2 damage are equivalent, and even if an equal value trade on command is strong, it's pretty much necessary for Mordhau to be anything more than a fringe skill. We're talking about turning the chance of a crit into reliable damage.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 19, 2018, 05:17:21 pm
As this is neither an all or nothing or always on skill, the skill is primarily going to be used in three ways:
1. The user will give up their crit in order to raise their damage to the point that instead of leaving an enemy on low health after the exchange, it will kill them.
2. The user will give up a fraction of their crit to raise their damage potential to 1/3 of the enemies remaining health and hope for a crit.
3. The user will reduce their crit to in order to raise their damage to the point where an ally can deal the finishing blow.
Reaching any of these conditions is much easier if you decrease the cost of the skill, and would leave damage personal skills much less valuable on a mercenary than a critical hit personal skill, as the latter would give you more options without a downside.
Also we should consider Wrath and weapon crit as well. Wrath in 5 to 1 allows you to raise your damage by the equivalent of 8 STR. That's almost a third of the stat cap at final promotion. A killing edge gets you 5 extra damage. Consider doubling as well. Mercenaries may not have amazing base speed, but fast mercs certainly exist, and allowing them to gain such a great level of extra damage is too much in my view.
I don't think there needs to be parity between what you give up and what you get with a skill like this because you pick and choose when you do it and to what degree, so having the critical hit cost be a little high for what you get is not a problem to me, and will keep the skill from being overused.
So that's my stance on the 5 to 1/10 to 1 debate. Also if we start it at 10 to 1 and it's deemed too weak, we can always buff it to 5 to 1. This is also true of the reverse but people like buffs more than they like nerfs.
Post by: Solymr on April 19, 2018, 05:28:45 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 19, 2018, 05:29:56 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 19, 2018, 05:33:11 pm
You can't trust these degenerates, they think "Mordhau" is a good name for a skill
Hey, I wanted Body
Post by: Solymr on April 19, 2018, 05:33:57 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 19, 2018, 05:34:57 pm
Hey, I wanted BodyBut that's how democracy works! One side wins, the other complains that the democratic process is broken because they didn't get what they wanted, and then we all devolve into cannibalistic anarchy.StrikeBlow, don't act like the Democratic process is broken because you didn't get what you want
Post by: IronyOwl on April 19, 2018, 07:09:51 pm
I didn't even vote and I'm still seriously considering eating you all.Hey, I wanted BodyBut that's how democracy works! One side wins, the other complains that the democratic process is broken because they didn't get what they wanted, and then we all devolve into cannibalistic anarchy.StrikeBlow, don't act like the Democratic process is broken because you didn't get what you want
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 19, 2018, 07:13:03 pm
Post by: Sirus on April 19, 2018, 07:19:35 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on April 20, 2018, 09:23:51 am
Post by: Solymr on April 20, 2018, 11:09:47 am
Now everyone can be disappointed by democracy!
Post by: Haspen on April 20, 2018, 11:14:54 am
Post by: Deidei on April 20, 2018, 01:35:16 pm
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on April 20, 2018, 01:37:03 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 20, 2018, 02:39:58 pm
Post by: Sirus on April 20, 2018, 05:50:42 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 20, 2018, 05:52:35 pm
Post by: Sirus on April 20, 2018, 06:09:52 pm
If someone isn't using crit-boosting PSs or support bonuses because they don't want those things...well, they're never going to be getting a lot of use out of any version of the class skill without using high-crit weapons like the Killing Edge.
Example: In order to use the Merc's new class skill as BMM42 wants it, you absolutely need to cap SKL to get even a single point of extra damage off it. If you don't have critting weapons, supports, or crit-boosting PSs, the skill is basically useless. Face it, if you have a class skill based around crit you need to invest in it somewhat.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 21, 2018, 09:40:44 am
I mean, you would unless you took a PS for crit and took advantage of supports. A low-level first-class character could easily manage 20 crit or so using a PS, a Slim Sword, and maybe another 5 points from a C-rank support.
Well that estimate brings one up to 25 crit only, not even accounting for enemy DG, so you're not getting variable amounts to trade. Hence my use of the phrase 'limited use' rather than 'unusable'.
Post by: Sirus on April 21, 2018, 10:06:08 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 21, 2018, 11:13:54 am
Flexibility matters. If you were offered a choice between 5 to 1 or 10 to 2, you'd take 5 to 1 because they aren't the same even though they're mathematically equivalent.
Post by: Sirus on April 21, 2018, 11:24:35 am
Anyway, what's the difference between your scenario and an enemy with Fortune? You can't crit them either way, so why does one case get free damage while the other doesn't?
EDIT: I'm gonna suggest we go with 8 crit to 1 MT. It'll make calculations slightly more fiddly, but it's in that golden middle ground between all the suggested trade-offs (well, as close as you can get without involving fractions).
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 21, 2018, 12:32:19 pm
Those two might be mathematically the same. 10-for-1 and 15-for-2 are not mathematically the same, so it isn't a real comparison.
Anyway, what's the difference between your scenario and an enemy with Fortune? You can't crit them either way, so why does one case get free damage while the other doesn't?
EDIT: I'm gonna suggest we go with 8 crit to 1 MT. It'll make calculations slightly more fiddly, but it's in that golden middle ground between all the suggested trade-offs (well, as close as you can get without involving fractions).
To answer your question regarding fortune: it doesn't actually reduce your crit to zero, it just doesn't allow a critical hit roll. In that case the skill is a counter.
Post by: Swordstar on April 21, 2018, 12:39:30 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 25, 2018, 05:35:37 pm
During combat they initiate, the unit with this skill can choose to take a 20 hit penalty. By doing so they gain a second attack if they were not able to make one already, as if they were doubling the enemy. This does not effect the target's capacity to double attack this unit.
The skill in this current form does have some drawbacks. If you're already doubling an opponent, you essentially do not have a skill, which can deincentivize speed growth. Also its kind of clunky and inelegant in how the skill works. A couple reworked versions were proposed today.
Alpha: -20 hit on all attacks allows the unit to make an additional attack. This additional attack would do half DAM. This version produces 1.5x DAM compared to not using the skill if the pirate is only capable of a single attack, 2.5x if they double. These calculations assume the pirate does not hit or crit, incidentally.
Beta: The unit takes -15 hit and a 3/4 DAM penalty on attacks they make, and gains one additional attack. This version produces 1.5x DAM on a single attack, and 2.25x DAM on a double.
Either of these options are simpler to implement than the current Rapid Strike. I was a little reluctant at first but the more I considered it the more I liked the idea of version Beta, but that's just, like, my opinion man.
Either of these skills mean that the Pirate is going to burn through their weapons faster and get less value per attack than if they were not using it, but that's another factor to the cost of the skill, the other factors being the hit penalty and damage reductions.
The other skill coming up for discussion is the new Mage skill for the new age, Arcane Barrier.
Alpha Version comes down to thus: The unit with this skill may use their action to expend a QL from an anima tome in exchange for a beneficial effect. This effect lasts until the unit uses this skill again, overwriting the previous buff, is reduced to zero hit points which removes the effect, or is subjected to an effect that would strip buffs from the unit.
Fire tomes grant DEF, Thunder tomes grant RES, Wind tomes grant DR (or eva, this is still under discussion). The exact bonus is based on tome rank.
E and D rank tomes provide a bonus of 1 (or 5 for eva), C and B rank tomes provide a bonus of 2 (or 10 for eva), and A and S rank tomes provide 3 (15 you get it)
The idea here is that the mage can use resources to set up a defensive boost that is capable of persisting for the entire battle if they let it. This is also why the bonus is relatively low, in order to restrict a skill with high uptime from overbalancing anything.
Beta version: arcane barrier: use your action and a ql from a tome to gain a MAG/2 shield with effects:
MT/2 DR if wind
MT retaliation damage for attacks if fire
MT*2 bonus evade if thunder
This is going to be tested in FEF3 according to Solymr. I don't have a lot to say about it right now.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 25, 2018, 07:51:30 pm
Okay so the old Mount CON affecting weapon WT thing came up again and I think it's about time this gets addressed. Currently, the rules as written are very unclear at first glance how mount CON affects your weapon WT (for anyone confused: It doesn't.), and the AID stat is literally pointless. Also currently, having a high CON score can be a bad thing, as it makes being rescued harder, since you need someone with a larger CON than yours to rescue you.
To this end I have two proposals to fix the issue. I will lead with my preferred option.
Option A -OR- Burn It All Down
We desync CON and AID from the Rescue mechanic entirely. CON becomes solely used to mitigate weapon WT, and AID is just dropped entirely, like me when I was a child. Instead, any character of the same movement type (which is to say on foot or mounted) can rescue units of that same type. Mounted units can rescue units on foot. If there is popular outcry against this idea because wyverns are heavy boys, they can have their own tier above pegasi and horses but I don't personally see the point.
Pros: We stop punishing high CON (its a slap on the wrist but a slap is a slap), and fix the friggin' "but doesn't riding a horse let me swing this 8 foot sheet of steel at people" problem.
Cons: Change is scary
Option B -OR- Aid can pull its own WT
As AID is currently a useless stat, we make it not useless. CON stops being associated associated with the Rescue Mechanic. Aid stays being CON-1, and you need higher AID than your rescue target to rescue them. Mounts effect your AID, not your CON. Pretty simple.
Pros: Finally does something with AID, fixes the 'No, your horse does not let you reload your crossbow any faster' debate.
Cons: Doesn't stop punishing high CON but that's only a CON in relation to the other solution. In a vacuum this is a straight upgrade to the current system.
Post by: Solymr on April 26, 2018, 01:46:05 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 26, 2018, 05:56:36 am
Arcane Barrier: Option A
CON/AID Debacle: Option B pls
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on April 26, 2018, 07:03:29 am
Magic Barrier or whatever: Option A
Mounted CON/AID: Option A
Post by: Unlurking Sentinel on April 26, 2018, 08:42:52 am
Arcane Barrier: Option B, though I'd rather tie it to rank than to individual tome MT
Mounted CON/AID: Option B
Post by: Chevaleresse on April 26, 2018, 09:49:32 am
Post by: Solymr on May 01, 2018, 04:26:32 am
Post by: Elephant Parade on May 01, 2018, 10:46:04 am
Post by: Solymr on May 05, 2018, 05:54:30 am
So the first option won (The extra attack deals half DMG. Pirate gets a -20 Hit penalty to all attacks.), let's move on to mage's Arcane Barrier.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 05, 2018, 08:05:21 am
Post by: Solymr on May 14, 2018, 12:08:12 pm
Now for the next thing. Troubadours won't be having Physical Training anymore, which means no bonus progression and D ranks for both staves and whatever weapon they pick. To fill in we thought of a new skill:
Healing Flow: When healing an ally with a staff, the unit with this skill may choose to apply this alternate effect. The target recovers 1/3 of the HP based on this unit's normal healing, and recovers the same amount at the beginning of their next two phases. If a target of this skill is reduced to 0 HP, any remaining healing is lost.
Which means they would have a regen effect for 2 turns, allowing for prehealing and improving the value of higher ranked heal staves. But an idea also occurred that we could give this skill to Priests and give Troubadours Self Healing instead, or a variation of it. The reasoning behind it is that Priest selfhealing results in tankpriests that go into the frontlines to soak attacks, while Troubadours can't afford to use their weapons in case of counterattacks. Switching these would make Troubs into more of a combat medic, which the promotions seem to go for, and in my personal opinion reduce the cheese that comes from priests being able to tank so well.
And with that, poll is up v;
Post by: randomgenericusername on May 14, 2018, 12:26:58 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 14, 2018, 12:40:51 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 14, 2018, 12:44:24 pm
Post by: Haspen on May 14, 2018, 01:13:16 pm
Would have been nice to have an option to keep Physical Training instead of having it decided for us
Step 1: Grab whichever handbook is most suitable for u
Step 2: Add a spoiler titled 'Changes'
Step 3: Start a new game.
Simples! ;v
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 14, 2018, 01:17:28 pm
Post by: Sirus on May 14, 2018, 04:02:44 pm
Hell, how about a "do you even want to change the troub's skill?"
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 14, 2018, 04:03:42 pm
Post by: Solymr on May 14, 2018, 05:06:19 pm
Post by: Sirus on May 14, 2018, 05:22:27 pm
The staff classes in general place way, waaaay too much focus on healing staffs. You have the Priest's Self-Healing, the Servant's Live to Serve, and now this proposed Healing Flow. Every single one of these either works best with a Heal staff (Self-Heal, which also works with ailment staffs for removing status effects) or ONLY with healing staffs (the other two). Just about every single priest, maid, and troubadour is going to specialize in healing as a result, unless there is a different character on the same party that is already doing so.
Healing is useful and all, but having three separate classes with three separate class skills all heavily focused on a single subcat is a little extreme. You look at the non-staff classes, and they have skills that are not dependent on any particular subcat. The staff users are an aberration in this regard.
If we seriously want to give the troubadour a new class skill, let's make it focused on something else. For example, did you know that Buff staffs get absolutely no class bonuses until promoted level? Ailment staffs don't get much of a boost either, only being useful for treating a priest's own status ailments. I'm sure we can come up with some better ideas than that.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on May 14, 2018, 05:36:50 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 14, 2018, 05:57:38 pm
Physical Training, as a skill, provides a second weapon category to the troubadour on top of their first category. We already have a system for assigning additional weapon categories to a class, and frankly we should be using that instead. This change would result in a minor reduction in weapon availability for the troubadour while allowing them to have a proper class skill that is capable of factoring into their ability to contribute in a tactical discussion.
The sub-ability of Physical Training, additional growths to STR and MAG of 10% each, does nothing to further that goal. While other classes benefit from their class skill more or less immediately, depending on the level of situationalness that such skills are occasionally subject to, the benefits of this bonus growth are both muddy and ever in the future. They never contribute to moment to moment decision making in game terms. While, on average, it represents a bonus of +4 to both stats in the very endgame, I think its very fair to say that this minor contribution does not do enough for the troubadour itself. The troubadour instead is forced to rely on building in very specific ways or relying on specific equipment in order to compete with classes that have better thought out class skills.
Some people have asked: Why healing flow?
Healing Flow was designed to facilitate the possibility of troubadours being able to recover health on multiple targets at a time instead of performing a full heal all at once. This can have the benefits of pre-emptive healing in the case of healing an ally about to enter a fight where they're expected to be damaged but (hopefully) not downed, or to heal someone already in combat who has taken relatively light damage and is expected to take more. Either way, health recovery continues to be a thing turn to turn, which allows the troubadour to either tend to other allies or even attack enemy targets. Obviously this skill has solid applications for troubadours.
Other people have risen the argument: Why not take Self-Healing, and push it somewhere else?
Okay I kind of get where we're coming from with putting Healing Flow on Priests and giving Troubadours Self-Healing because 'priests stick to the rear' and 'troubadours are armed so they do more fighting'. I am not in this camp and I will seek to explain why in as concise a manner as possible while being comprehensive. First off, troubadours do not need sustain any more than a standard combat class. Yes, they will occasionally get hurt, and sometimes they will channel Genji and need healing. This is true of all classes. What is not true of all classes but is true of the troubadour is that our mounted healing class has a mount. They can heal and pull behind the front line away from damage sources, or attack whatever they were planning to attack and pull behind the front line and away from damage sources.
Priests cannot do this. And often, priests will need to move to the secondary line in order to heal tanks or damage classes, putting them in vulnerable range of archers, mages, or any schmuck with a flexible range weapon. This is compounded by the fact that the priest is the only staff class that has no weapon access, which makes them an even more inviting target for any enemy. So the priest has to gormlessly sit there until his next turn before he can slink away from where he's fighting, which is fine because they have self-healing and can recover reasonable amounts of damage provided they survive until their turn. Wait a minute-
(https://i.imgur.com/fG9PKkr.png)
Oh no
So putting Healing Flow on Priests shoves them in the very rear of the party so hard it'll make their teeth rattle. They can't control their engagement space and won't be able to recover damage to their tantalizingly vulnerable torsos short of medicine or another healer. Maybe another priest who'll also be stuck back there for the same reason. On the other hand this makes the Troubadour so self reliant I'm not sure why you'd play any other healer at all. Being able to passively heal and control your engagement space means the only time the troub is going down is if they seek it out by willfully overextending. As soon as their HP drops, they have to retreat back for about a turn before running back out and being a dedicated combat class like everyone else. At least maids have to dedicate a turn to healing an Ally to recover their health.
Why is the new skill focused on healing? Why can't it be focused on ailments or buffs?
Well the short answer is because troubadours will be focused on healing regardless so they may as well get something that they'll actually use. The long answer is that, because sources of healing are limited and because HP pools are shallow relative to damage received from an individual enemy, Healing is super super busted and basically is required to be. This is because multiple units per turn are likely to be damaged. There will almost always be more damaged units than healers as soon as one turn into an engagement with a group of enemies. So a healer needs to be able to heal one ally up as high as possible, usually their HP cap, and move right along to the next suffering warrior. And because otherwise you may as well have another fighter, healing is much, much better than hurting.
Heal does 10+MAG recovery, obviously. Let's point out really quickly that this is an E rank staff. Do you know what other E rank weapons have what is essentially a MT of 10 while still interacting with a damage stat? Devil Weapons, and that's it. Some of the heavier categories get to 10 or above at rank D, but lighter weapons have to wait for as high as B class before seeing what is essentially 10 MT. Mend is double that and no weapon short of Armageddon, which is an S rank tome and is probably going to be thrown out can match 20+STR/MAG.
This may sound like I am pushing for a nerf to healing. I am not. Without major structural changes (nerfing MT across the board or increasing HP or both) healing in its current state is needed for groups to be functional the way we play this game. This is just an explanation of why your healer only ever seems to do healing instead of using buff or ailment staves, and why having a skill focused on either of those things would likely end up being wasted effort.
Anyway the discussion has been moving fairly quickly for a bit and I just wanted to address some questions that have come out of the recent poll.
Post by: Sirus on May 14, 2018, 06:10:31 pm
My only purpose for bringing up those other misbegotten subcategories was to point out the massive disparity in the attention healing gets over other possibilities. If every single class that can possibly heal has skills that are dedicated to healing, then things will only get worse. I feel we need to mix things up somewhat, and give units that can choose to fight rather than heal something that will help them in that regard.
Post by: Xanmyral on May 14, 2018, 06:41:00 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 15, 2018, 06:22:58 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 16, 2018, 12:23:59 pm
Right, because most strategies involve staff users becoming mindless healbots who are wasting their turn if they aren’t doing anything except healing. Which is bad.
It's a consequence of the system how it is. To combat it you'd need deeper healthpools. Lowered MT across the board could also work but not as effectively.
Post by: Culise on May 16, 2018, 06:26:58 pm
That, unfortunately, may still be a bit of an open question as well. Eliminating enemies prevents all the damage they would deal in the future, making attacking pretty darn good (as it should be). Certain debuffs can temporarily remove enemies and the Again buff is effectively transferring your action to another player, which is better in cases where you can't eliminate an enemy outright.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 16, 2018, 06:38:33 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 16, 2018, 06:55:12 pm
Post by: Culise on May 16, 2018, 07:00:47 pm
Well vulneraries (not so much concs or elixirs) recover very little HP, so using them for mid battle recovery isn't very effective, since average single exchanges are going to have around 10 damage dealt to people getting hit.Aye. I included them to consider the early game as well, but poking about, it is true that a single exchange can easily be 7-14 damage on average even at level 1.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on May 16, 2018, 07:03:20 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 16, 2018, 08:11:55 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 16, 2018, 08:21:43 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 16, 2018, 08:59:37 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 17, 2018, 05:45:42 am
Post by: Solymr on May 17, 2018, 07:34:45 am
Now we're moving to Battle Mage: the last update gave them both Ignis and Imbue Arrow, which is essentially an on-command Ignis that uses two weapon QL and can stack with the regular Ignis. This might be overtuning them from their previous status, so we're making this poll to see if you'd like Battle Mage to be less Ignisy.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 17, 2018, 07:45:49 am
I also want to avoid giving them both Imbue Arrow and Ignis, as Imbue Arrow is already going to give bonus damage to the tune of 8-12 damage per attack, which is more than enough for a class skill. Time and testing will tell if it needs to be reduced, but they clearly do not need both Imbue Arrow and Ignis.
Post by: Sirus on May 17, 2018, 02:01:23 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 17, 2018, 02:02:37 pm
Post by: Solymr on May 17, 2018, 02:04:19 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 17, 2018, 02:05:01 pm
Post by: Sirus on May 17, 2018, 02:09:53 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 17, 2018, 02:10:08 pm
Post by: Solymr on May 19, 2018, 01:44:58 pm
Post by: Solymr on May 22, 2018, 05:15:15 am
Now for a question about Bounty/Treasure Hunters.
Post by: Solymr on May 23, 2018, 07:34:16 am
Next question is Commanders, this one because rallies are most useful when used at the start of a turn, and that might cause the Commander to fall behind the lines.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 23, 2018, 07:42:14 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 23, 2018, 07:50:11 am
Which will almost definitely never happen. :P
Post by: Sirus on May 23, 2018, 05:45:24 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 23, 2018, 06:33:46 pm
I'm not sure I understand what is being asked? I mean, Rally is an action. Unless you're mounted (or a thief doing thiefy actions), you can't move after performing an action.
This poll is to determine whether we want to extend that privilege to Commanders performing rallies in the same way thieves get it after stealing/lockpicking.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 24, 2018, 07:16:16 am
Option 1: Default
The current version sees the Commander gain new Rallies at set levels.
Spoiler: 1.salt Rally (click to show/hide)
Option 2: Classic
This option was in place on the 1.2 Commander. While there are significantly fewer commands, the Commander has access to all of them as soon as they promote. The commands are also more powerful (excepting the Move order), but have drawbacks relative to their strengths. Further, unlike the 1.salt Rally, all of these commands last a single turn.
Spoiler: 1.2 Rally (click to show/hide)
Option 3: Remix
This option makes some changes to the 1.salt Rallies, removing the level requirement and paring down the list somewhat to restrict the number of options they have. As this is a new option, the values will not necessarily match the 1.salt versions of each respective rally.
Spoiler: New Rally (click to show/hide)
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on May 24, 2018, 07:25:45 am
That being said I don't really mind if Option 3 wins as-is.
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 24, 2018, 07:36:17 am
Post by: Swordstar on May 24, 2018, 08:53:25 am
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on May 24, 2018, 10:50:10 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on May 24, 2018, 11:26:00 am
Hmm.
Post by: Solymr on May 24, 2018, 11:32:51 am
Post by: GM_3826 on May 24, 2018, 11:49:48 am
Post by: Sirus on May 24, 2018, 02:44:54 pm
Post by: Parsely on May 24, 2018, 04:09:41 pm
Post by: Solymr on May 25, 2018, 06:14:30 am
Now it's just a matter of the exact bonuses and stuff, but I think the rallies as posted in Blade's post are fine.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 25, 2018, 06:53:32 am
Spoiler: Option 1 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Option 2 (click to show/hide)
Post by: Culise on May 25, 2018, 05:55:58 pm
And that does mean that I'd personally go further than the proposed effects, but of the proposals, that's the one I prefer.
Post by: Solymr on May 28, 2018, 08:06:34 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 28, 2018, 08:43:47 am
Post by: Sirus on May 28, 2018, 09:10:30 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 28, 2018, 05:42:28 pm
Lend Me Your Strength needs a rework on multiple levels. Right now it is overly complex, is too easy to keep active, and (by some metrics possibly I suppose you could make an argument for) possibly too powerful. So it seems like there are multiple questions here that are best addressed individually. It's also worth noting that the Warrior skill, Rough and Tumble, has a significant amount of overlap with this skill and changes here will probably be reflected there when we reach Warriors.
Spoiler: Stage 1: Scaling (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Stage 2: Activation (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Stage 3: Bonuses (click to show/hide)
Once that's all finished, I would also like to raise the question of whether or not the Hero requires Charisma on top of LMYS. I am of the opinion that they do not, but that can be left until the whole LMYS question has been finished up.
Post by: TricMagic on May 28, 2018, 06:12:23 pm
Do you know of any?
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on May 28, 2018, 06:31:07 pm
This should suffice.
Post by: Solymr on May 29, 2018, 07:34:32 am
Now moving on to the Hero. Poll is up with issue #1.
Post by: Solymr on May 30, 2018, 12:19:30 pm
Post by: Solymr on May 31, 2018, 02:16:51 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 02, 2018, 11:15:27 am
Option A: While this unit is within 3 spaces of 4 Allies, they gain +10 Hit, +10 Eva, +2AS, and +2 DAM/DR. The Hero chooses between DAM or DR when they take their action for the turn, and the choice persists until the beginning of their next phase
Option B: While this unit is within 3 spaces of 4 Allies, they gain either +10 hit, +2AS, +2 DAM and +10 Crit, or +10 Eva, +10 DG, +2 DR and +2 AS. The Hero chooses between these two options when they take their action for the turn, and the choice persists until the beginning of their next phase
Post by: Solymr on June 03, 2018, 03:32:07 pm
The crit/dodge in option 2 has been a bit contentious, the point of that option is that the Hero can choose a package of offensive bonuses or defensive bonuses (sword and shield anyone?).
Post by: RoseHeart on June 04, 2018, 01:00:26 pm
I imagine they would be useful enough that a spoiler marked "sprite resources" in the OP would make sense.
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 05, 2018, 05:44:09 am
Post by: Haspen on June 05, 2018, 05:58:29 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 05, 2018, 07:04:14 am
Post by: Haspen on June 05, 2018, 07:19:14 am
Mini Emblem on Forums. 6 playas, 4 chapterinos. I will butcher Saltbook for this.
In this particular instance, Trainees -> First Class (proboly will happen between Chapters 2 and 3).
So buckle up, Hatkat is coming back to GMing.
Post by: Solymr on June 05, 2018, 07:24:34 am
Now one last poll to see if they get Charisma.
Also: 8V
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 05, 2018, 07:31:32 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on June 05, 2018, 07:49:06 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 05, 2018, 07:51:10 am
Also Dread Fighter isn't getting any changes, at least until the next version, and even if they did Daunt isn't the only option for skill removal.
Post by: Haspen on June 05, 2018, 08:32:36 am
Spoiler: Kittybook v0.1 changes, based on 1.Salt (click to show/hide)
Post by: Solymr on June 06, 2018, 01:26:20 pm
Now it's Holy Guard's turn, with the new classes there's an overrepresentation of Anima, so switching Holy Guards to Light instead is an idea.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 06, 2018, 01:28:17 pm
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on June 06, 2018, 01:29:57 pm
Post by: Twinwolf on June 06, 2018, 04:49:38 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 06, 2018, 05:23:33 pm
I'm mostly voting for it because I keep thinking they have Light anyway :P
They're called Holy Guards! It just makes sense!
Post by: GM_3826 on June 06, 2018, 05:23:56 pm
Post by: Culise on June 06, 2018, 10:17:18 pm
Oh, and here I thought their RES/DEF preferred stats just weren't protecting them.I'm mostly voting for it because I keep thinking they have Light anyway :P
They're called Holy Guards! It just makes sense!
Post by: Swordstar on June 09, 2018, 03:17:08 pm
Discord chat was largely a fan of Flare but were somewhat unhappy with the fact that it's just the RES version of Pierce. However, we couldn't really come up with much of anything else, so if you've got a suggestion, please put it in here. ^_^
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 09, 2018, 03:22:43 pm
1. Spear and Magic Helmet is kind of bad for multiple reasons. Firstly, it only works in conjunction with specific equipment, which is bad for obvious reasons. But moreover, it doesn't even do it well, since the Mage Knight still has to deal with the high Weight of Magic Weapons without any weapon skill to reduce it. They can put STR into CON to rectify that issue, but forcing classes to take off-stats to use their class skills has been bad forever.
2. Flare is pretty good! It gives Anima Trainees an end path that is solidly focused on offense, where all other promotions are focused on utility or defense. And we already know it works because it's pretty derivative, which I would say is the only failing of the skill.
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 09, 2018, 03:26:24 pm
Post by: Sirus on June 09, 2018, 03:45:50 pm
I guess I'm getting massively outvoted here, but I always thought having a class focused on magic weapons was neat, considering how most campaigns are lucky to get even one because most characters don't bother. Way more interesting than Magic Pierce.
Post by: Solymr on June 09, 2018, 03:48:51 pm
If Flare is enough for them to not need SnMH we could give it to a different, maybe hybrid class.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 09, 2018, 03:53:32 pm
Honestly I'd still like to do a mechanic overhaul on Magic Weapons so we don't need a class tailored to them for them to be desirable in the first place, but that can wait until The Great Weaponing
Post by: Sirus on June 09, 2018, 04:03:39 pm
To a lesser degree, while class-unique weapons can be used by anyone in those classes, in many cases they get their best benefit if the character specializes in the subcategory of their class' weapon. It helps them handle the WT of those weapons more effectively.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 09, 2018, 04:07:46 pm
Also the difference in a weapon rank is not analogous to a class skill at all.
Post by: Solymr on June 15, 2018, 01:50:05 pm
Next poll is for Paladin. Wary Fighter: the Paladin can choose on their turn (without spending an action) to cancel follow-up attacks (Brave weapon and Adept bonus attacks not affected) in all combats until their next phase for both combatants.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 15, 2018, 01:54:02 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on June 15, 2018, 02:02:06 pm
Post by: Solymr on June 15, 2018, 02:27:15 pm
Wary Fighter (B): the Paladin can use their action to take a defensive stance. Incoming attacks will be reduced to half damage, but the Paladin loses a counterattack.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 15, 2018, 02:31:51 pm
And even on those occasions they do build for speed, bases and bonuses for spd on the paladin are not great, so except for anomalous builds, the skill should retain benefits against the fastest classes ie myrms and whatnot
I suppose I'll reiterate here.
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 15, 2018, 05:10:57 pm
Post by: Solymr on June 15, 2018, 05:23:46 pm
Also I vouch for version B so as to not be useless for high SPD paladins.
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 15, 2018, 06:15:44 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 15, 2018, 06:58:22 pm
Post by: Solymr on June 17, 2018, 11:58:38 am
Now Rogue's Bag of Holding needs a revision in how it works, separated into various singular issues.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 17, 2018, 12:12:45 pm
Secondly it allows buff stacking limited only by what the gm decides to give out in terms of buff items, since you can just put it all in the bag and convert your rogue into a shinigami.
Post by: Solymr on June 17, 2018, 12:32:27 pm
To be clear this are the issues we're voting:
Can items transmit effects to the rogue whilst in the bag section of the inventory?
Can units apart from the rogue access the bag section of the inventory?
Can weapons be in the bag, not be in the bag, or only weapons the rogue can't use be in the bag?
If anyone else knows a thing that could be misleading or unbalanced, do post :v
Post by: Swordstar on June 17, 2018, 12:39:25 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on June 17, 2018, 02:22:11 pm
Timewise, how much will they actually need to be handing other people stuff, though, relative to the lengths of a map? The stuff people will need most they'll already be carrying. Even if other units can grab items from them, in your hypothetical they're still going to need to be within a short distance of the other for gear to be swapped; their need to be close to others doesn't really change too much either way.
Post by: Solymr on June 17, 2018, 02:28:25 pm
Post by: Swordstar on June 17, 2018, 02:31:53 pm
This also plays into my thoughts on the last one. Not letting them hold weapons basically just makes them an item and medicine carrier. Items that give stats are 99% of the time going to be on people since that's where we want them to be and being a medicine pack mule will basically turn the rogue into a discount healer instead of being able to run off and do their job of grabbing chests, doors, etc. Plus if they open a chest with a full inventory and it's a weapon, that sucks that they have to drop things, etc. It is again a nerf to their skill that feels unnecessarily punishing for the class as a whole.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 17, 2018, 02:33:06 pm
Allowing them to store anything essentially makes them Supply Lines capable of defending themselves and picking locks, which will prevent that manner of NPC from being used.
Post by: Swordstar on June 17, 2018, 02:37:42 pm
Post by: Powder Miner on June 17, 2018, 02:39:08 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 17, 2018, 02:51:08 pm
What does "liberation of incidental items" mean?
Stealing shit.
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 18, 2018, 08:28:13 am
Also, I agree, because without being able to steal and hold weapons Rogues are more or less lockpick mules anyway.
Post by: Solymr on June 18, 2018, 02:22:02 pm
We thought about any restrictions but they could be easily worked around by trading so nyeh
Next is a small issue with the Saint.
Post by: Swordstar on June 18, 2018, 02:35:20 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 18, 2018, 07:04:39 pm
Post by: Lenglon on June 18, 2018, 10:08:39 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on June 18, 2018, 10:18:26 pm
Edit: Or something like that, you have to take into account range and the enemy's resistances, etc. This is just a rough estimate kind of deal.
Post by: Lenglon on June 18, 2018, 10:21:02 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on June 18, 2018, 10:22:42 pm
Post by: Lenglon on June 18, 2018, 10:24:04 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on June 18, 2018, 10:27:51 pm
Post by: Lenglon on June 18, 2018, 10:29:41 pm
Post by: Swordstar on June 18, 2018, 10:46:12 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 18, 2018, 11:31:28 pm
But unless you want to make an entire map essentially a fight between PCs and a ton of GMPCs that are enemies this is basically how any given combat in a FEF is gonna go. Hence the omnipresence of heal staves for PCs and ailments for enemies.
Post by: Swordstar on June 18, 2018, 11:40:23 pm
Post by: Lenglon on June 18, 2018, 11:56:50 pm
Post by: Powder Miner on June 19, 2018, 03:30:06 am
Post by: Lenglon on June 19, 2018, 04:09:42 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 19, 2018, 05:34:01 am
The issue with the previous iteration was that the ailment saint could get almost as good value from their action on an initial whiff (provided their target had someone adjacent to them) as if they had hit. Despite the fact that it hasn't really been played since, because there are only so many people willing to run these games and they only go so fast, it was noted that the skill is probably overbalanced, so we're addressing it here.
Post by: Solymr on June 19, 2018, 08:03:02 am
Next up is a tweak on the Sentinel's Shield Wall.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on June 19, 2018, 08:07:06 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 19, 2018, 08:08:12 am
Not only does this change resist magic, making things a little less lopsided, it reduces the ceiling for maximum def stacking, which is currently ridiculously high.
Post by: Sirus on June 19, 2018, 02:26:28 pm
Adjacent allies get +3 DR
The Sentinel themself gets +1 DR and +1 AS per adjacent ally.
Is that correct?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 19, 2018, 02:38:34 pm
So just to be totally clear on the proposed change:
Adjacent allies get +3 DR
The Sentinel themself gets +1 DR and +1 AS per adjacent ally.
Is that correct?
Yes.
Post by: Sirus on June 19, 2018, 02:50:26 pm
Post by: Solymr on June 19, 2018, 02:54:59 pm
Now a Shadow Sword thing. Since Fencer doesn't have sneaking anymore their Shadow Strike skill goes. So here's a change for Marked for Death poll.
New version: As an action, the shadow sword can designate one enemy unit as 'marked'. All friendly units, including the shadow sword, gain 2 DAM, 10 crit, and 10 hit against the marked unit. If the shadow sword reduces their marked opponent to 0 hp, they may choose another target to mark without using an action. If the Shadow Sword is reduced to 0 HP, their current marked unit is no longer marked. Only one unit can be marked at any time.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 19, 2018, 03:00:12 pm
New Marked For Death deals with the one and done nature of old shadow sword by restricting initial placement and subsequent placement while also down playing the bonus from the skill slightly. But now you can do it a bunch of times.
Post by: Sirus on June 19, 2018, 03:00:56 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 19, 2018, 03:07:51 pm
What was the original Marked for Death? For those folks without access to pdfs.
The bonuses were +3 DAM and +15 hit and +10 crit, and it didn't cost an action to apply, but could only be applied once.
Post by: Sirus on June 19, 2018, 03:12:13 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 19, 2018, 03:16:21 pm
Another question: what's the range on this mark? Can the Shadow Sword mark the boss from clear across the map?
There is no range limitation on the mark.
Post by: Solymr on June 19, 2018, 03:16:39 pm
Post by: Sirus on June 19, 2018, 03:18:59 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 19, 2018, 03:38:16 pm
I get that. I just think it should be stated somewhere that the mark has no maximum range, to avoid confusion.
I would say that the range is not specified and it not being an attack makes indefinite range the default assumption
Post by: Solymr on June 20, 2018, 03:37:04 pm
Now it's Swordmaster's turn. We gave them an evade bonus equal to the damage they deal in a hit, and now it's being debated if Single Stroke is too much with it.
Post by: Solymr on June 20, 2018, 03:49:04 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 20, 2018, 03:56:51 pm
Second school of thought only permits damage from the Player Phase, in order to avoid stacking with Leaf on the Wind. This is on the basis that the resulting eva bonuses could go too high to be reasonable.
Of course, giving up one counterattack *does* reduce the output for Faster than the Eye in the first place, and I think its more worthwhile to allow occasional stacking.
Post by: GM_3826 on June 20, 2018, 04:28:15 pm
So mentally subtract 1 from option 3 and add 1 to option 2. (It's not worth restarting the poll over, right?)
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 21, 2018, 08:56:43 am
Hunter
Bow (D), Bow Subcat (C)
Preferred Stats would likely be something along the lines of STR,SKL, maybe? This didn't actually get any discussion
Skill: Flush Quarry- While on Defensive Terrain, the Hunter gains half the defensive benefits of the terrain as offensive bonuses, i.e. 20 eva and 2 DEF/RES becomes 10 Hit and 1 DAM.
Also, if the Hunter hits a target that is on Defensive Terrain, that target loses the bonuses from that terrain until they move.
Promotes to Warrior and Sniper/Assassin
So the outline we've worked up is pretty strong, and really it just needs final approval and a statblock and clean up of the Pref Stats to swap in for Spy for Archer trainees. I just wanted to post this in here so those that don't go in the mechanical channel much could get a look at it before we move forward with anything and share their thoughts. Also this is sort of an interest gauge.
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 21, 2018, 09:04:59 am
Also I'm of the opinion that we should leave Archer Trainees able to promote into Spy if they wish, just so the option of using bows as a Spy is present, but still add Hunter to their options. Doesn't affect my thoughts on the class itself, though. Good stuff.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 21, 2018, 09:09:22 am
Anyway, the current iteration of the skill allows the skill to be of use if either the Hunter or the Target of the Hunter is not on defensive terrain (but not both at the same time I guess)
Though re-reading how I formatted it that may not be entirely clear so I'm going to edit it.
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 21, 2018, 09:17:21 am
And ohh okay I got it now. I misread "if on offensive terrain" as "if the enemy is on offensive terrain"; this makes more sense.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 21, 2018, 09:21:43 am
No more of this. You took Sneaking, you took Conditioning, now you want to take Spies?! What's next, Bandits too?? /sbut not really
And ohh okay I got it now. I misread "if on offensive terrain" as "if the enemy is on offensive terrain"; this makes more sense.
...Conditioning?
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 21, 2018, 09:24:45 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 21, 2018, 09:25:28 am
I regret nothing.
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 21, 2018, 09:31:48 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 21, 2018, 10:51:48 am
: Blade's Big Ol' List of Gameplay terms
Map: Refers to all Rounds on a particular set of terrain (notable for the Inquisitor and presumably not much else)
Round: Refers to a full set of Player, Ally, and Enemy Phases. (Notable for status counters and possibly some other things)
Phase: Refers to the either Player, Ally, or Enemy Phase, dependent on the allegiance of the unit activating the skill or what not. (notable for lots of stuff)
Turn: Refers to a unit's opportunity to do what they can within their phase. Is refreshed via performance. (Notable for many many things)
What a unit can do on their turn in this specific order:
Move: The unit can expend any or all of their MOV stat to travel a number of squares or activate an effect dependent on movement.
Trade: The unit can exchange items with adjacent units or equip items in their own inventory. Alternatively, a rescued unit can be moved between characters.
Action: The unit can attack, use an item, Rescue a character, Drop a Rescued character, or perform specific abilities based on their own skill.
Canto: If the unit has the relevant skill, they may use any or all MOV they have remaining to travel a number of squares.
EDIT: The idea here is to standardize some terms for things we have that don't yet have codified terms. This should help in the design space and to prevent misunderstandings of rules. In particular there seems to be a lot of confusion on what performances actually allow, especially in conjunction with the skills of refreshed targets.
Post by: Elephant Parade on June 21, 2018, 10:57:48 am
Post by: GM_3826 on June 21, 2018, 11:47:39 am
Is Thief the only Thief Trainee promotion that actually works?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 21, 2018, 12:05:19 pm
I support this too.
Is Thief the only Thief Trainee promotion that actually works?
Well we voted to leave Scavengers as is.
But yes.
Post by: Solymr on June 21, 2018, 02:19:43 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 21, 2018, 02:23:25 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on June 21, 2018, 03:41:31 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 21, 2018, 03:52:54 pm
Single Strike: The Swordmaster gains a permanent +15 bonus to their Critical Rate. Their Critical Rate cannot go below 10.
Post by: Solymr on June 22, 2018, 06:47:04 am
Now it's time for one of the new classes, one that we dubbed Templar:
Light (A/C) and Lance (A/C), they would have Quixotic as their main skill (even though most of the points are still up to debate): on command, the Templar and their opponent would gain a large amount of Crit. This bonus would remain for a full round, and would apply to any enemy that attacks the Templar on their turn. The Templar could maybe also get access to all magic weapons with Spear and Magic Helmet.
The first vote will be to determine if only Soldier promotes to this class (replacing General), or if Ascetic would get to promote to it as well (replacing Inquisitor). This would make both Ascetic promotions hybrid classes.
Edit: actually Quixotic would work only if both combatants are able to attack.
Editsquared: and maybe not actually on command.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 22, 2018, 06:51:01 am
Post by: GM_3826 on June 22, 2018, 12:43:02 pm
It's my opinion that Ascetic should be barred from promoting to Templar, as doing so would make both of its promotions split class, something we just fixed on Fencer not long ago. I don't see why we would do the same to ourselves now. Having Soldier be the only path to Templar is neither unprecedented or even a problem at all.
I agree. If Fencer promoting to two split classes was a problem before, I don't see why we'd do that with Ascetic now.
Post by: Solymr on June 22, 2018, 03:25:35 pm
Now for details on Quixotic. It would give both combatants large bonuses if they're both able to attack, but the activation method is still unclear.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 22, 2018, 03:31:42 pm
Well not strictly speaking but that sort of evocative design is what we're going for here. Obviously this skill is going to be pretty powerful considering that controlling engagements to limit who can slap whom is a fundamental component of the game. Allowing the Templar to further limit enemy capability by being able to choose whether or not quixotic is in play tilts the balance of the skill too far into the hands of the templar.
Post by: Chevaleresse on June 22, 2018, 06:28:37 pm
Though, I suppose you could find some sort of compromise in making it require a full action (as in, forgoing your attack) to turn it on and off, or some other limiting mechanism.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on June 23, 2018, 08:27:07 am
Post by: Swordstar on June 23, 2018, 09:02:35 am
Post by: Solymr on June 23, 2018, 10:54:38 am
Post by: Sirus on June 23, 2018, 11:22:39 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 23, 2018, 11:34:38 am
Post by: Solymr on June 23, 2018, 11:44:04 am
What if we want to leave it unrestricted and leave the crit bonus at 30? What kind of poll is this?
That's the first option.
Post by: Solymr on June 24, 2018, 01:21:08 pm
Post by: Swordstar on June 24, 2018, 01:22:11 pm
Post by: Solymr on June 24, 2018, 01:24:01 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 24, 2018, 01:25:24 pm
The other options are likely to be Fortune functioning normally (possibly viable on a damage and crit Quixotic but pretty overpowered if its Crit only), or for the most bizarre version, Fortune and Quixotic interacting so that the enemy has a base critical chance of what is granted by Quixotic that can not be modified.
Anyway I'm pushing for DAM and Crit to avoid having weird skill interaction.
Edit: I got ninja'd bad, send help.
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 24, 2018, 07:49:33 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on June 24, 2018, 07:50:57 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 24, 2018, 07:53:25 pm
where’s the option for quixotic granting hit + crit
No one suggested it which makes a lot of sense considering that Templar is going to have lance and light, both of which are pretty reasonably accurate but could stand to gain damage.
Post by: Solymr on June 25, 2018, 07:13:51 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 25, 2018, 07:20:12 am
Post by: Swordstar on June 25, 2018, 09:56:54 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on June 25, 2018, 09:57:38 am
Post by: Chevaleresse on June 25, 2018, 10:01:53 am
Post by: Swordstar on June 25, 2018, 10:17:21 am
Post by: Solymr on June 25, 2018, 10:47:27 am
Post by: Solymr on June 26, 2018, 08:02:24 am
Next up is Warrior: should Rough and Tumble be equated to LMYS? Let's start working on that.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 26, 2018, 08:07:19 am
This is an illustration depicting the number of available spaces for enemies to occupy to activate Rough and Tumble at a 3 tile radius. Note that if a 4 tile radius were to be used, it would cover 40 spaces.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 27, 2018, 09:40:39 am
Speaking of: Terrain. There's a bunch of crap about it in the book that gets ignored. Lets have a version we all more or less agree on using.
Here's my proposal.
Spoiler: Blade's Terrain Proposal (click to show/hide)
Post by: Sirus on June 27, 2018, 03:19:41 pm
First, is there a reason you went with DEF/RES all those times instead of a simple DR?
Second, unless Omni-movement got changed recently it only raises the move cost of tiles like Ocean and Mountain by +2. So unless you're intending to give Wanderers a move cost of 7 on oceans (thus making them all but impassable), giving them a move cost of 5 when water-walkers have a cost of 2 makes no sense.
Post by: Solymr on June 27, 2018, 03:36:37 pm
Spoiler: Solymr's Terrain Proposal (click to show/hide)
On that note, Warrior's Rough and Tumble activates with 3 enemies within 3 spaces now.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 27, 2018, 03:42:35 pm
Two questions.
First, is there a reason you went with DEF/RES all those times instead of a simple DR?
Second, unless Omni-movement got changed recently it only raises the move cost of tiles like Ocean and Mountain by +2. So unless you're intending to give Wanderers a move cost of 7 on oceans (thus making them all but impassable), giving them a move cost of 5 when water-walkers have a cost of 2 makes no sense.
Omni-Movement did get a reword. Any terrain with a MOV cost higher than 1 has its cost reduced by 1 for the Wanderer.
Also yes, DEF/RES is mechanically distinct from DR, because DR doesn't apply to the staff hit formula or critical hits.
Post by: Sirus on June 27, 2018, 03:49:21 pm
I can understand it not applying to staff hit formulas, since staffs don't actually deal damage, but DR should function exactly the same as DEF and RES when it comes to crits.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 27, 2018, 03:54:07 pm
Examples:
Spoiler: 2 DR (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: 2 DEF (click to show/hide)
The reason we did this was to widen available design space. Otherwise you may as well replace any instance of DR with DEF/RES. Why would we even come up with a new term if it just worked the same?
Post by: TricMagic on June 27, 2018, 03:56:25 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 27, 2018, 03:57:51 pm
Differences between Speed and AS?
AS can be modified by WT on equipment that can't be compensated for by a combination of weapon skill and character CON. SPD can't be reduced.
Post by: TricMagic on June 27, 2018, 04:05:02 pm
Speed
Weapon weight 12 - {6+3=9} = 12-9 = 3
So Speed -3=AS
Personal Skill triggers. +2Spd =+2AS
Same result, but Speed is used for more things?
I think this is correct, unless something changed about combat.
Post by: Sirus on June 27, 2018, 04:09:14 pm
DR applies only to final damage, which would be one step after the multiplication of the critical hit.Because DR is faster and simpler to type or say than DEF/RES? I figured that was implied.
Examples:Spoiler: 2 DR (click to show/hide)Spoiler: 2 DEF (click to show/hide)
The reason we did this was to widen available design space. Otherwise you may as well replace any instance of DR with DEF/RES. Why would we even come up with a new term if it just worked the same?
Also there's absolutely nothing I can find in my handbooks about DR being subtracted after Total Damage has already been calculated. Maybe I'm missing something.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 27, 2018, 04:13:50 pm
DR applies only to final damage, which would be one step after the multiplication of the critical hit.Because DR is faster and simpler to type or say than DEF/RES? I figured that was implied.
Examples:Spoiler: 2 DR (click to show/hide)Spoiler: 2 DEF (click to show/hide)
The reason we did this was to widen available design space. Otherwise you may as well replace any instance of DR with DEF/RES. Why would we even come up with a new term if it just worked the same?
Also there's absolutely nothing I can find in my handbooks about DR being subtracted after Total Damage has already been calculated. Maybe I'm missing something.
I'm assuming that you're working with one of the 1.salt releases or earlier. DR was developed as a mechanic during the major review of classes that we just finished, specifically as part of changes to Armored, since we determined that the Damage Threshold (DT) mechanic was terrible. That being the case you wouldn't have a book that has DR in it.
Edit: Yeah Tric, you seem to have it all down.
Post by: Sirus on June 27, 2018, 04:38:53 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 27, 2018, 04:44:31 pm
Actually, the 1.salt book I have lists DR in the Support section, and in the list of suggested PS effects it includes "1 damage reduction". So yeah, I do have DR in at least one book.
Funnily enough that got brought to my attention over in the chat. I suppose this is the problem with incremental releases, as well as the addition of new terms without them being properly defined.
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on June 27, 2018, 05:37:56 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on June 27, 2018, 05:42:01 pm
Post by: Solymr on June 28, 2018, 07:55:27 am
Post by: Solymr on June 28, 2018, 03:33:26 pm
Now it's time for the Great Weaponing! The general weapon rework is here and the first issue is if Staff and Performance items should or should not have Weight. They aren't weapons per se but they aren't items either, so their WT would factor in differently.
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 28, 2018, 04:04:01 pm
Post by: Solymr on June 28, 2018, 04:18:44 pm
Post by: Culise on June 28, 2018, 08:11:41 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 28, 2018, 09:20:29 pm
Most games, but I was under the impression that it's simply a prevalent houserule unless something changed while I wasn't looking since the last Salt dump. It makes sense to keep it for players who intend to keep conventional FE rules for staves, or for that matter, use Thracia rulesto torture the playersto be unique.
Well, when you say 'conventional FE rules' I'm pretty sure that only applies to a handful of the games. In fact, most instances treat staves as more of a skill dependent usable item than a weapon. I didn't play Thracia but I am under the impression that it and RD were the only ones to actually do this.
Of course, sometimes prevalent houserules get adopted in later editions of games. I believe that's how the 'at death's door' mechanic in D&D got its start.
Post by: Culise on June 28, 2018, 10:52:41 pm
Post by: GM_3826 on June 29, 2018, 07:33:30 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 30, 2018, 07:40:24 pm
Post by: TricMagic on June 30, 2018, 07:45:03 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 30, 2018, 07:46:49 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 30, 2018, 07:49:29 pm
That's not exactly a bad thing. They can't attack, so they need the advantages.
Pure performance or Pure Staff classes have enough going on that they don't need to nerf armed performance or staff classes to be worth having, as we've seen demonstrated in various games (with staves at least, since there was only ever one game that included two performers to my knowledge and neither of them got offensive capability until late game).
Having double your speed in AS literally at all times because you cannot equip anything with a WT stat is just dumb.
I don't think that is possible for literally any build. I feel like even a Resolve Samurai with max HP and no SPD procs wouldn't be able to wind up with double their base AS. I need you to explain how you got there.
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 30, 2018, 07:58:16 pm
But this still makes high SPD healers better than most other classes with high SPD, because the former doesn’t have to contend with WT affecting their AS.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 30, 2018, 08:01:35 pm
I conflated AS’ calculation with Evasion’s and somehow thought the former was SPD x2, so my bad.
But this still makes high SPD healers better than most other classes with high SPD, because the former doesn’t have to contend with WT affecting their AS.
Not that most units choose to equip weapons that result in AS loss in the first place, but yeah, I'm not in support of Staff or Performances having weight for a reason.
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 30, 2018, 08:08:12 pm
dandy
Post by: Solymr on July 01, 2018, 09:57:52 am
Now for a poll about crossbows since there's been a difference of opinions on where to go with them.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 01, 2018, 10:03:38 am
I think a general buff isn't going to solve the problem, and I think applying STR to weapon WT is a poor idea that could wind up with crossbows needing str as much as any other bow, which invalidates one of the reasons to use them in the first place.
Post by: Solymr on July 01, 2018, 10:08:55 am
Post by: Swordstar on July 01, 2018, 12:54:40 pm
Post by: Powder Miner on July 01, 2018, 12:58:47 pm
A category that fundamentally exists by altering stats will not see success. I personally suggest either going with shortbows for piddlier 1-2 range bows, or (and honestly I like this idea more) powerful and heavy but still 2-range composite bows.
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on July 01, 2018, 01:46:49 pm
Post by: Solymr on July 01, 2018, 01:58:18 pm
Thank you all for your contribution ;V
Post by: Solymr on July 01, 2018, 02:13:45 pm
Post by: Sirus on July 01, 2018, 02:46:59 pm
Post by: Solymr on July 01, 2018, 03:11:35 pm
Post by: Swordstar on July 01, 2018, 03:15:49 pm
Post by: Powder Miner on July 01, 2018, 03:18:20 pm
Well, now I know for sure I'll never use future editions.It doesn't seem extremely feasible to swear off future editions, which do include the results of the discussions over some of the particularly janky or controversial or broken aspects of the game that you'd be consigning yourself to dealing with if you ran a game, over the replacement of the crossbow category, which barely saw use because its gimmick was fundamentally broken in terms of the progression of the game.
Post by: Swordstar on July 01, 2018, 03:35:22 pm
Post by: Haspen on July 01, 2018, 03:53:24 pm
I think he had previous issues with the changes as well, like Mage Knights not getting magic weapons anymore.
/me cries dramatically in the corner over this.
Post by: Solymr on July 01, 2018, 03:59:33 pm
Post by: Swordstar on July 01, 2018, 04:01:10 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on July 01, 2018, 04:14:16 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on July 01, 2018, 04:48:04 pm
Post by: Solymr on July 05, 2018, 12:59:26 pm
Prospective sword weapons. Opinions, spellchecking and new gimmicks to add are welcome V:
Post by: SOLDIER First on July 05, 2018, 02:42:47 pm
Post by: Solymr on July 05, 2018, 03:18:27 pm
i fix
Post by: Swordstar on July 05, 2018, 10:55:22 pm
Post by: Solymr on July 06, 2018, 05:07:33 am
Other than "the same but heavier" or antiarmor in slash.
Post by: SOLDIER First on July 06, 2018, 08:02:21 am
Post by: Swordstar on July 07, 2018, 07:29:58 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 08, 2018, 06:43:30 am
Post by: Solymr on July 08, 2018, 07:32:20 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on July 08, 2018, 08:23:48 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on July 08, 2018, 09:53:29 pm
Post by: Solymr on July 10, 2018, 05:42:43 am
Prospective lances, same as with swords.
Also if someone wants to help make weapon icons do mention.
Post by: Solymr on July 12, 2018, 08:59:47 am
And now axes join the cause
Post by: Solymr on July 12, 2018, 03:40:08 pm
Post by: Solymr on August 03, 2018, 09:17:28 am
Swords: https://www.dropbox.com/s/nsur758hnvz2ysb/sword.txt?raw=1
Lances: https://www.dropbox.com/s/35az08gak5tvl55/lance.txt?raw=1
Axes: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ny5zagc07lgafe5/axe.txt?raw=1
Bows: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9femf7a6lfo5p1u/bow.txt?raw=1
Hidden: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qfleguh13t24oi7/hidden.txt?raw=1
Anima: https://www.dropbox.com/s/29ek1oppcr3jumr/anima.txt?raw=1
Light: https://www.dropbox.com/s/kbj7g9vfqa38umu/light.txt?raw=1
Dark: https://www.dropbox.com/s/oomrn1rjhywydy3/dark.txt?raw=1
Questions, suggestions or other things to note are welcome.
Post by: Solymr on August 06, 2018, 05:38:00 am
Spoiler: Hunter / Huntress (click to show/hide)
I also tweaked Ascetic to have 6 CON as well.
Post by: Solymr on August 22, 2018, 01:30:39 pm
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wfxft9i7amc9fwm/memory.txt?raw=1
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 22, 2018, 01:55:14 pm
Post by: Solymr on August 22, 2018, 02:53:10 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 22, 2018, 03:17:53 pm
Rescue I feel should be 18 and Warp 20.
Post by: Solymr on August 22, 2018, 04:50:52 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 20, 2018, 12:29:46 pm
Laguz do not promote. Laguz have a level cap of 40 instead of 20. Laguz have a Transformation Gauge.
Transformation Gauge maxes out at 15. While untransformed, at the start of their turn, they gain +1 to their transformation gauge, and at the end of a combat, they gain +2 to their transformation gauge. While transformed, at the beginning of their turn, their gauge reduces by 1, and reduces by 1 at the end of each combat.
Laguz may choose to revert their transformation as part of their turn. Laguz automatically revert their transformation if their gauge falls to 0. Laguz may (or may not its up for debate) transform on their turn at any point on the gauge. If a Laguz is attacked at a range they could counter in their base form, and their gauge is full, they will transform before combat begins.
Transformation increases STR, MAG, SKL, DEF, RES, and SPD by an average of 1/4 level, minimum 1. Different variations on the specific fraction per stats that may be chosen at character creation, but will not exceed 1/3 for balance reasons, are under review.
At character creation, Laguz choose one natural weapon (claw, talon, fang, etc). This will scale. Somehow.
There will be three main Laguz variants: Beast, Bird, and Dragon. The primary difference will be in skills and vulnerability. Bird Laguz will have flight while transformed at minimum. Most everything else is up in the air.
Laguz may have lower bases and a greater amount of bonus stats at character creations to allow for variation in relation to the low number of distinct classes.
Aaaand that's pretty much it at the moment.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on September 20, 2018, 03:43:43 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 20, 2018, 05:34:06 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 20, 2018, 05:38:40 pm
What level does their transformation gauge start at? I assume 0, but...
I would also assume zero, but then again it could start full just as easily. It's still pretty early days with this.
So are there Laguz trainees, or will they be stuck having five less levels total than human characters?
There wouldn't be Laguz trainees but that's a good point. In games that use trainees, Laguz would probably have their level cap raised. I would think.
Post by: Sirus on September 20, 2018, 07:38:05 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 20, 2018, 07:45:34 pm
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on September 20, 2018, 08:19:20 pm
So it sounds to me like the solution would be to have the transformations be more utility than anything else. It probably goes against their concept a lot but it lets them contribute in fights without being transformed, since they aren't completely handicapped when untransformed. Not as strong but still enough to contribute.
Alternatively just make them equally tanky untransformed. At least so that they can throw themselves against the enemy to increase the gauge and block when needed.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 20, 2018, 08:53:00 pm
But yeah, Laguz should absolutely spend more time transformed than not, at the very least. One thing could be that in the base stat, the guage builds faster per turn than it depletes while transformed. This would reduce the need for Laguz to put themselves in danger without being transformed.
Post by: Solymr on October 11, 2018, 05:52:31 am
Post by: Solymr on October 24, 2018, 10:53:11 am
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167494.msg7876316#msg7876316
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on October 25, 2018, 03:04:36 pm
There was recently some discussion about changes to the skill in terms of balance, as well as a complete overhaul. These are the broader possibilities born from the discussion.
1. unchanged or possible minor number tweaks
2. assassinate requires any or all of (crit, actually dealing damage)
3. assassinate is some sort of doublecrit chance (details pending, though the idea relies on an exploding critical mechanic)
4. assassinate now passively increases critical damage to 4x instead of 3x
Of these options I'm more in favor of the latter two, as it moves away from the instant-kill mechanic to allow for something that is useful more consistently.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on October 25, 2018, 03:19:57 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on October 25, 2018, 03:22:42 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on October 25, 2018, 03:27:28 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on October 25, 2018, 03:43:48 pm
Post by: Chevaleresse on October 25, 2018, 04:15:11 pm
Post by: GM_3826 on October 25, 2018, 04:17:20 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on October 25, 2018, 04:31:13 pm
I'm in favor of adding critical eye plus option 4. Simple, thematic, cuts down on rolling and gimmicky instakills that fail on everything you'd want to use them on anyway.
I like your argument.
Post by: Sirus on October 25, 2018, 04:32:15 pm
I'm in favor of adding critical eye plus option 4. Simple, thematic, cuts down on rolling and gimmicky instakills that fail on everything you'd want to use them on anyway.If we gotta change Assassinate, this seems like the best of the lot.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on October 25, 2018, 05:14:54 pm
Post by: Haspen on October 26, 2018, 02:30:01 am
Post by: Solymr on October 27, 2018, 08:42:37 am
If we go for option 4, I think it should be x5 multiplier so as to double the bonus damage from a crit.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on October 27, 2018, 09:17:20 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on October 27, 2018, 09:20:32 am
Might as well make the poll x4 vs x5.
Post by: Chevaleresse on October 27, 2018, 10:29:05 am
Post by: GM_3826 on October 27, 2018, 12:04:00 pm
Post by: Solymr on October 27, 2018, 12:29:49 pm
Post by: Solymr on October 28, 2018, 09:27:45 am
5x comes out on top so there, no more rolling than needed.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on October 28, 2018, 04:33:38 pm
Spoiler: Defined terms to be added (click to show/hide)
We may have removed all skills activated in lieu of movement, so the phrase related to that may be cut.
Post by: Haspen on November 01, 2018, 03:20:13 pm
It will serve both as a playtest for the Handbook 2.0 as well as way for me to get back into this
I plan to include about 4-6 player characters maximum, starting with First Classes and 'maybe' promoting into Promoted Classes by end of the game, and the plot will be a cheesy one of 'young princess deals with conspiracy in standard-fare medieval fantasy kingdom' sort. As you can see, I expect it to be on the short side.
I give no estimate on OOC thread nor what kind of characters I will be seeking (although they most probably will have to be of noble birth) for this particular game.
Because I know some
Spoiler: Lore 7 v0.1: Religions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Lore 7 v0.1: Nations (click to show/hide)
Post by: TricMagic on November 01, 2018, 03:35:41 pm
Post by: randomgenericusername on November 01, 2018, 07:22:32 pm
Post by: GM_3826 on November 02, 2018, 09:59:39 am
Post by: Haspen on November 02, 2018, 12:05:45 pm
Competition is looking pretty steep, however.
Do tell something we don't know :P
Post by: SirAston on November 04, 2018, 06:08:07 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on November 06, 2018, 09:30:47 pm
Comments and constructive criticism are fine. Also if someone who isn't me could be bothered to do some for Hunter, that'd be aces.
Spoiler: floof (click to show/hide)
Post by: Haspen on November 07, 2018, 05:44:19 pm
Post by: Solymr on November 09, 2018, 01:59:42 pm
Edit: Abridged version too! (https://www.dropbox.com/s/g8d98ndnrub4nqa/Players%20Handbook%20v2.0%20Abridged.pdf?raw=1)
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on November 13, 2018, 11:38:15 am
Things I want to add before a hypothetical version 1.0:
- Dragon Laguz- Not sure exactly what we want to do with them yet but it can be addressed after we see if the mechanics we have for them now work at all.
- Preset Laguz- At least a decent list of basic building blocks for Laguz, like what I have for enemies in the upcoming GM handbook.
- More- Maybe more Laguz focused character skills? Or Transformation effects? More weapons for humans to use against them, certainly
Hopefully it all turns out well and it can get the community seal of approval.
Post by: Sirus on November 22, 2018, 12:37:33 am
Post by: Solymr on November 29, 2018, 02:47:29 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on December 15, 2018, 11:55:57 pm
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on December 16, 2018, 10:08:49 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on December 16, 2018, 10:12:09 pm
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on December 16, 2018, 10:13:16 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on February 06, 2019, 07:23:30 pm
Alright so my main issue with the current support system is that it's just too good. For the sake of simplicity, lets use the stock example of the book-
At Rank C both Gain: +0 DMG, +0 DR, +2 Hit, +2 Evasion, +5 Crit, +5 Dodge
At Rank B both Gain: +1 DMG, +1 DR, +5 Hit, +5 Evasion, +10 Crit, +10 Dodge
At Rank A both Gain: +1 DMG, +1 DR, +7 Hit, +7 Evasion, + 15 Crit, +15 Dodge
This seems like an awful lot of bonuses to get in combat by virtue of being within 3 spaces of a specific person.
Now, we do not want Support bonuses to be bad. The idea behind them is to create a further incentive for character interaction between (primarily) the players. But the nature of the benefits of the support system as we currently have it in play, I argue, does a poor job of this.
Because only your highest ranking support in range matters, sometimes players will focus entirely on one other partner to the point where opportunities with other characters are lost. Pairing tunnel vision, if you will. If we allow each support bonus to stack, greater inter-party exchange will be incentivized, leading to more shenanigans.
Obviously the current calculation method of bonuses simply won't work for this. However, the main reason for that is that each unit contributes their own affinity bonus to the support. If you simply remove that, there is a significant change to the end result.
Assume Unit A has an anima affinity and is in the endgame and has 3 support Partners- One fire, one dark, and one wind, at A, B, and C support level respectfully. Let us further assume that each support is in range. Here are the benefits that we see using current methods-
DMG: +4.5, HIT: +7.5 CRIT: +30
And here's what it looks like using listed values, but without using Unit A's affinity and benefitting from all partners.
DMG: +2.5, HIT: +10, Eva: +7.5 CRIT: +30
Obviously this is still very good, but it is in the realm of usability. Also, it results in a slightly wider spread of benefits rather than a laser focus, something the balance of this game is highly susceptible to.
This is why I also propose a general reduction to the actual benefits of affinities themselves. The primary method for this reduction will be to bring each affinity selection down from three benefits, to two. Some affinities already have only two benefits, but have stronger values for those they possess. This shall be reduced also.
My proposed list:
Fire: Hit: +2.5, Crit: +5
Wind: Eva: +2.5, Crit: +5
Anima: DMG: +0.5, Crit: +5
Light: DR: +0.5, Eva: +2.5
Dark: DMG: +0.5, DR: +0.5
Thunder: DR: +0.5, Crit: +5
Ice: DR: +0.5, HIT: +2.5
Water: DAM: +0.5, Hit: +2.5
Heaven: Hit: +2.5, Eva: +2.5
Earth: DAM: +0.5, Eva: +2.5
So what probably immediately jumps out at you is the fact that DG is missing as a benefit entirely. I chose to remove it from my proposal for a very simple reason: Nobody wants to have it. We have a character skill that obviates it, and the usefulness of it is debatable, even when in excess compared to critical bonuses. It just made more sense to get rid of it entirely.
In any case, lets revisit that thought experiment from before- a unit benefitting from 3 supports at a time- Fire: A, Dark: B, and Wind: C
DMG: 1, DR: 1, Hit: 7.5, Eva: 2.5, Crit: 20
This gives us a fairly wide spread, and somewhat more reasonable values. I've also included a couple other configurations.
Thunder, Water, Anima
DAM: 1.5, DR: 1.5, Hit: 5, Crit: 20
Heaven, Light, Wind
DR: 1, Hit: 7.5, Eva: 15, Crit: 5
Earth, Wind, Fire
DAM: 1.5, Hit: 2.5 Eva: 12.5, Crit: 15
Anima, Dark, Fire
DMG: 2.5, DR: 1, Hit: 2.5, Crit: 20
Earth, Earth, Fire
DAM: 2.5, Hit: 2.5, Eva: 12.5, Crit: 5
Anima, Anima, Anima
DMG: 3, Crit: 30
So these values are clearly lower, though not much more, than values we had in place for A rank under the previous system, but they are predicated on having 3 specific units within 3 spaces of the beneficiary instead of just one.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on February 07, 2019, 05:05:49 am
Post by: Twinwolf on February 07, 2019, 07:07:29 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on February 07, 2019, 08:24:04 am
Post by: xelada on February 08, 2019, 03:37:59 pm
However that is assuming you are combining the hit and crit roll, if you separate them then then crit becomes less valuable, to be precise, the 1% is multiplied by your hit rate so if you have a 60% hit rate +1 crit gives you 0.6% to do +200% damage.
Assuming we are balancing around separate rolls then I'd say between +1.5 and +2 crit per support level is a good number (if we are balancing around a combined roll then 1.25 is probably best).
+1.5 crit and +2.5 hit give an equal amount of value around 80% hit chance (83.3% to be more precise).
+1.75 becomes equal around 70% hit chance (71.4% to be more precise)
+2 become equal around 60% hit chance (62.5% to be exact)
The number you want to use depends on what the "average" player hit rate is expected to be.
Dodge unsurprisingly works the same, but something to keep in mind the fact that the breakpoints key to enemy hit rates, so +1.5 crit and +2 dodge might be equally valuable due to the fact enemies tend to have lower hit rates.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on February 08, 2019, 04:05:50 pm
One thing to keep in mind: mathematically crit can have twice the effect as hit; +1 hit gives you a 1% chance to do +100% damage (the difference between a miss and a hit), while +1 crit is a 1% chance to do +200% damage (the difference between a normal hit and a critical hit).
However that is assuming you are combining the hit and crit roll, if you separate them then then crit becomes less valuable, to be precise, the 1% is multiplied by your hit rate so if you have a 60% hit rate +1 crit gives you 0.6% to do +200% damage.
Everyone I know of rolls separately for hit and crit.
Post by: Solymr on February 08, 2019, 05:56:14 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 08, 2019, 06:40:56 pm
Post by: Lenglon on February 08, 2019, 07:09:03 pm
-1 dmg is a 5% decrease in damage taken assuming a previous damage value of 20. value decreases if you take less damage, again, a breakpoint-based stat, where sometimes one point is the difference between taking 2 hits to take out or 3.
+1% crit is an average of +2% damage, value decreases if you have less hit, value increases if you have more crit. non-breakpoint based stat, so every single point makes a difference, but none of them make giant differences
+1% hit is a HIGHLY variable value, if you only had a 20% hit chance before (almost never happens, but showing extremes) then it's a +5% increase in damage on average
however, if you had an 80% chance to hit, a +1 hit is worth 5% decreases in chance to miss. this would also apply to crit, but typically crit doesn't reach the extremely high values that hit often does unless someone builds specifically for it, and even then they need full hit to get reliability out of having full crit.
at high hit chance values that are sub-overflow-point (100%) then hit is actually super valuable in terms of reliability, removing risk from a number of engages, because you can KNOW that you'll hit, and take out, your opponent before they can swing back. making +hit actually a defensive stat.
I don't really have an opinion on the change crit given by support discussion, just making sure people don't underestimate the value of hit, cuz comparaing stats based on +%dmg isn't accurate.
Post by: Gaterhyme on February 08, 2019, 09:12:06 pm
+1% Crit is +1% chance for extra damage regardless of whether you roll one die or two, though?
Not sure this really matters too much since everyone uses two dice, but wanted to try to help clarify: crit is usually conditional upon hitting, which is what rolling two dice accomplishes.
Example:
If you have 50% hit and 10% crit and roll one die, the outcomes are:
You hit normally 40% of the time. You hit and crit 10% of the time. You miss 50% of the time.
If you have 50% hit and 10% crit and roll two dice, the outcomes are:
You hit normally 45% of the time. You hit and crit 5% of the time. You miss 50% of the time.
So the +1% Crit (and crit/crit bonuses in general) is more potent if you only roll once.
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 08, 2019, 09:30:51 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on February 08, 2019, 09:43:22 pm
Sometimes crit values get really, really high, to the point where they can exceed your final hit value. Let's say your character has a hit rate of 50 against a given enemy. Let us also assume through, lets say wrath and a killer weapon and probably a personal skill, that they've managed a final crit rate of 50 against that same enemy. Under a two roll system, you have a 25% chance to crit. Under a one roll system, you have a 50% chance. Because your hit chance is equal to your crit chance, any hit is a crit.
One subrule that I saw to address this issue in the past that, thankfully, no one used, was situations involving more crit than hit were solved... by rolling twice. So if we go back to the scenario presented and add a support partner who gives you +5 crit, your actual odds to crit your opponent drop by almost half. Ouch.
Luckily no one actually does the one roll method as far as I know.
Post by: xelada on February 08, 2019, 11:48:00 pm
+1 damage gives an AAC of (1*hit/100)+(2*crit/100) which equals [hit + (2*crit)]/100; #don't forget it increases damage from crits as well as regular hits
+1 hit gives an AAC of damage * 1/100;
+1 crit is where things get interesting: it has an AAC of (2*damage/100)*(hit/100).
You might notice that the crit AAC formula contains the formula for, this simplifies attempts to balance because instead of having to figure out if damage/100 is greater than (2*damage/100)*(hit/100) it can simplify to 1 >? 2*hit/100 (which can further simplify as "hit <? 50").
These three formulae can be used to check when two things are worth an equal amount.
To show this, lets compare +2 Strength (or Magic) to +2 Skill (technically this is +X Strength vs +X Skill):
First we break it down into its effects: 2 damage = 4 hit + 1 crit
Then we convert: 2 * [(1*hit/100)+(2*crit/100)] = [4*(damage*1/100)] + [(2*damage/100)*(hit/100)]
2*(hit + 2*crit) /100 = (4*damage + damage*hit/50)/100
2*(hit + 2*crit) = 4*damage + damage*hit/50 =(4+ hit/50) * damage
hit + 2*crit = (2+ hit/100) * damage
That is a non-trivial amount of algebra, so let us use it in practice: a unit with 50 hit and 5 crit against their enemies is choosing between a Energy Ring and a Secret Book, when should they choose each? If we sub in we get:
50 + 2*5 = (2+ 50/100) * damage
50 + 10 = 2.5 * damage
damage = 60/2.5 = 24
So they should use the Energy Ring if the damage they do to their enemies is less 24, the Secret book if greater, and either if at exactly 24.
If you don't want to remember the full "hit + 2*crit = (2+ hit/100) * damage", a good rule of thumb is that Skill and Strength/Magic about as good as one another when your hit is between 2 and 3 times your damage; adding twice your crit to your hit if you want to be more accurate.
***
You are correct that high hit makes it easier to make plans, however it is worth remembering even with the same average damage a high damage low accuracy can be better/faster in some circumstances.
To explain: lets say you have a weapon that has a 100% chance to do 10 damage, and another that has a 25% chance to do 40 damage; both have the same average damage of 10 per attack, but how long will it take them on average to defeat an enemy with 40hp? For the first weapon it comes out to 4 attacks needed, but what about the second weapon? The answer is actually about 2.4 attacks! This is because of how compounding probabilities work; the probability that you will need more than 1 attack is the same as the chance to miss, which is 75% (100%-25%), the chance to need more than 2 attacks is 56.25% (75% * 75%), and so on. In fact the probability the second weapon takes longer than the first is only around 26%.
This (statistically probable) faster win has knock on effects, it frees up other people to use their actions on other foes, it reduces the number of counter attacks taken, etc.
Post by: Lenglon on February 09, 2019, 01:53:28 pm
Your analysis is pretty good, but your formulae dont take into account the breakpoint nature of +dmg. Sometimes it does absolutely nothing, sometimes it makes a huge difference. Average absolute change is a nice stat, but it still at the end of the day is a %dmg stat, not a swingcount stat. And swingcount is what actually matters.
Post by: RoseHeart on February 23, 2019, 01:03:19 am
Quote
RED PAINT: Won a chapter in Fire Emblem on Forums, where there were 3 times as many enemy NPCs as PCs.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 14, 2019, 05:12:16 pm
As veterans in particular are painfully aware of, enemies equipped with ailment staves are particularly dangerous. Though it would be more correct to say that enemy formations containing ailment staves are particularly dangerous. What makes them so bothersome is their interaction in the action economy. Because its very simple, with their extended range, to place enemy ailment staff users in positions where they can target players despite being part of a separate enemy group to the one that they're fighting, leaving them a handful of turns, uninterrupted and unmolested, to layer status effects on player teams.
Because players seldom have the opportunity to split into discreet battle groups, particularly while retaining effectiveness, and the use of ailment staves ties up resources for healing, as well as generally being outnumbered by enemies, ailment staves are simply more valuable to enemies than they are to players.
Following some discussion in the mechanics channel on the discord, we're considering making changes to the staff formula.
The current calculation for staff hit is as follows: Staff%= Staff hit + [(User MAG - Target RES) * 5] + SKL -(Distance between user and target x2)
Due to the way this is calculated, distance is almost a nonfactor- at maximum staff range under normal circumstances, the range penalty caps out at 30. Because its such a minor factor, ailment users (usually enemies) are capable of standing at the edge of their casting range and send out spells to harass their targets (usually players) with a very slight penalty. The calculation is also heavily weighted to MAG for accuracy, which means that (generally) physically oriented classes are much more vulnerable to ailment attacks. It also leaves SKL as nearly a dead stat for Saints.
After crunching some numbers, and checking a couple different variations, we've worked out an alternate calculation to use: Staff%= Staff hit + [(User MAG - Target RES) * 3] + (SKL*2) -(Distance between user and target x5)
This change would accomplish a couple of things- Firstly, and most importantly, it causes extreme fall off for staff accuracy at long ranges, and is essentially an indirect nerf against enemy ailment users. Second, by increasing the role that SKL plays in staff accuracy and somewhat reducing the reliance on MAG/RES interactions, staff accuracy gets slightly more consistent against different builds.
Post by: Chevaleresse on April 15, 2019, 11:51:14 am
I support the staff hit changes.
Post by: Gaterhyme on April 15, 2019, 12:17:35 pm
You're correct that this doesn't result in the true crit rate where crit should be conditional on hit, and I think it's generally agreed at this point that we're sticking with two rolls.
The alternative correct one roll calculation you bring up sounds okay as well, though I wonder if the multiplication of hit times crit causes the loss of granularity. If my hit is 50 and my crit is 41, rolling two dice allows me to crit if I roll exactly 50 on hit and 41 on crit. But if I use one die and multiplication, I won't be able to roll exactly 20.5, so my chance of critting seems the same as if I had 50 hit and 40 crit.
Re: staff hit change, no particular opinion from me here.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 12, 2019, 05:16:57 pm
Pros: More variety, allows people to take weaker versions of certain skills if they don't want to give up progression.
Cons: Almost definitely more confusing, and some skill alts might get a little weird.
Spoiler: Anyway, here's Wonderwall (of text) (click to show/hide)
Post by: GiglameshDespair on May 12, 2019, 05:29:49 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 12, 2019, 05:33:49 pm
Awareness was already excessively good. That awareness+ is so OP as to be laughable
I would personally consider Awareness to be a bad skill, but mostly because of the current environment in which the game is generally run, I.E the vast majority of enemies not having any skills to be aware of.
But fair enough.
Post by: xelada on May 14, 2019, 09:30:25 pm
Stronger than base without being too much more powerful.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 15, 2019, 07:54:45 am
Post by: Solymr on May 15, 2019, 05:10:16 pm
Post by: Sirus on May 15, 2019, 05:50:54 pm
Post by: Chevaleresse on May 15, 2019, 06:04:01 pm
Not only is it cost, it is a skill that activates at low health and encourages investing in offensive stats, giving it poor uptime overall.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 15, 2019, 10:47:32 pm
Changing it to a flat bonus to hit, Eva, and AS (leaving out critical just to avoid stepping on wrath) is going to make it much more powerful averaged across the course of a game, more or less depending on what sort of modifiers it is given.
I know the variant replacement in fh2 is 20 hit/Eva, 5 DAM and 5 AS. Assuming that a replacement flat bonus is based on that, it is ludicrously strong compared to current resolve. The AS bonus could be met at 10 speed, but the hit and evasion bonuses would require you to have 20 in skl and spd with current resolve. From there the difference is in crit vs damage and 5 damage stacks up against the maximum 7 crit from current resolve pretty favorably. Even if you drop the damage bonus, that's a pretty hefty bonus at trainee and doesn't really fall off until arguably the very late game.
Lastly, a flat resolve bonus wouldn't necessitate investment in spd or skl, which would likely result once more in gimmick builds a la Efa that drop spd and skl in favor of long term survivability to improve uptime and get incredible mileage from the flat bonuses.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 14, 2019, 11:26:54 am
Shortly we'll be polling whether or not to remove spy and replace it outright with a new class. As Master Spy is intertwined with spy, it would similarly go, and the new class would receive a new promotion. Here are the deets:
Quote from: Spy Reckoning
Spy removed, and replaced with Outlaw: D bows, D hidden, promotes to assassin and vigilante
Vigilante: b sword cat, b bow cat, b hidden cat, c sword c bow c hidden
Master Spy: gone
Assassin: instead of being a single weapon s rank class, assassin changes to A/A hidden bow since master spy is no longer squatting on that niche.
The exact skills for Outlaw and Vigilante won't be voted on until the next poll (assuming they win) and are up in the air but the frontrunners are:
Sidearm: the really dumb skill on archers in 1.3 is significantly less dumb on a class that can actually use the weapon in question, and hidden is no longer part of the weapon triangle so it doesn't need a no wtp clause to avoid accidentally putting the user in more danger than they already were.
The tldr for those who aren't already familiar: this would let them counter with a hidden weapon if they get attacked while equipped with a bow
The other skill idea was to convert unspent move directly into damage, capped somewhere between 3-5 damage at first class and uncapped if it goes onto vigilante.
Post by: TricMagic on June 14, 2019, 11:33:57 am
Also, do Outlaws currently have a Subcat specialty?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 14, 2019, 11:43:00 am
And no, first classes with two weapons don't specialize until promotion.
Post by: Solymr on June 17, 2019, 03:11:28 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 17, 2019, 03:33:39 pm
Firstly, Outlaw has access to hidden weapons where Archers do not. Second, hidden weapons are no longer part of the sword category and don't present any weapon triangle shenanigans that need to be worked around.
Also maybe now you can switch to bows too? I dunno, we'll see how the poll goes.
Post by: TricMagic on June 17, 2019, 03:36:28 pm
More specifically, the Pinwheel is 1-3 range, and is a B rank weapon in the Knife Class. While only longbows actually work in the 2-3 range.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 25, 2019, 03:33:04 pm
It's a lot of work though and in some areas I am just exhausted of ideas, particularly for additional 'heavy weapon' types, which would be swell to have, and class fluff. I've set the settings for the google doc I'm prototyping in so people can leave comments, so feel free to drop any ideas you want to share in there.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1c6FHBwh8Mho-AdIz9brCAYbSLyPM_UFtq6kQS6pOApA/edit?usp=sharing
Post by: Solymr on June 26, 2019, 02:24:23 pm
The option of unused MOV to DMG will probably move to Vigilante, along with a modified Sidearm since they get swords too probably.
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on June 28, 2019, 06:32:08 pm
Post by: Solymr on July 02, 2019, 07:21:35 am
If the Outlaw is attacked from outside their equipped weapon's range, they automatically equip the first weapon from a different category that they can counterattack with if they have one in their inventory.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 06, 2019, 02:42:34 pm
Also after Legacy FEF I plan to do another fef with some rule changes, and I was wondering what other additional changes people might like to see for a game that's themed around doing Tellius stuff.
The main things I have planned right now are:
Shove: Unmounted units can Shove using their action. Shove can only affect allies with a lower CON, and pushes the target one tile away from the user.
Smite: Free Character skill that allows users to Shove any target regardless of CON and optionally Shove targets they could target normally two spaces instead of one.
Knight Trainee: new trainee that could have access to one of any of the three main physical weapons. Promotes to Knight and Forerider (name subject to change)
Forerider: New mounted class, has access to one of the three main physical weapons. Skill: Press Forward During the first combat of a phase they participate in, the Horseman gains a bonus according to their interaction with the enemy's weapon.
Weapon Triangle Advantage: The Horseman gains +4 damage to their first attack in the combat.
Weapon Triangle Disadvantage: The Horseman gains +3 DEF/RES against the first attack made against them in the combat.
No Weapon Triangle Interaction: The horseman gains +10 hit/eva for the combat.
Promotes to Great Knight and a new class, Silver Knight
Silver Knight: New mounted promoted class, will have S rank for one weapon. Skill: Onward: Unmounted allied units that begin their phase adjacent to the Silver Knight gain +1 MOV
Please note that I'm not pushing for any of these changes to the base game, I'm just wanting to see what other stuff that's either from Tellius or is Tellius inspired that people might want to see in that game. (Laguz notwithstanding, that's its own thing)
Post by: RedMageCole on July 06, 2019, 04:25:47 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 06, 2019, 06:33:22 pm
Post by: RedMageCole on July 06, 2019, 07:46:17 pm
Post by: IamanElfCollaborator on July 07, 2019, 02:46:12 am
Lemme just casually plug this here. This is the culmination of two weeks of work (and some discussion on the Discord) and is a) so far in the alpha stage as to possibly need a lot of overhauling and b) very, very untested. The supplement contains:
- Fist weapons (Claws, Cestus and Gauntlet)
- Whip weapons (Leather, Metal and Rod)
- Trick weapons that operate effectively as subcategories of Sword/Axe/Lance (Gunsen/Nunchaku/Scythe)
- Classes that wield Fist and Whip
- Items and Weapons to properly integrate the supplement with core mechanics
Hopefully, sometime in the future I can actually get around to testing the new toys I made in this thing and seeing if I didn't absolutely cock up all the numbers.
EDIT: Caught some typos and some glaring errors.
Post by: Solymr on July 10, 2019, 08:27:38 am
Outlaw:
Promotes from: Archer Trainee, Thief Trainee
Promotes to: Assassin, Vigilante
Bow (D), Hidden (D)
Skills: Lockpick, Vision, Sidearm
Sidearm: If the Outlaw is attacked from outside their equipped weapon's range, they automatically equip the first weapon from a different category that they can counterattack with if they have one in their inventory.
Pref. Stats: SKL, LCK
Bases: 19 HP, 4 STR, 0 MAG, 6 SKL, 3 LCK, 2 DEF, 1 RES, 7 SPD, 6 CON, 5 AID, 6 MOV
Promotion Bonuses: +2 HP, +2 STR, +2 SKL, +2 SPD, +2 CON, 6 MOV
Assassin:
Same as the previous assassin save two important changes: Bow Subcat (A), Bow (C), Hidden Subcat (A), Hidden (C) and they get the previous Spy's Vital Strike skill.
Vigilante:
Bow Subcat (B), Bow (C), Hidden Subcat (B), Hidden (C), Sword Subcat (B), Sword (C)
Skills: Lockpick, Vision, Ambush Strike, Always Prepared
Ambush Strike: When attacking the Vigilante does bonus DMG equal to unused MOV.
Always Prepared: The Vigilante can designate a backup weapon in addition to their equipped weapon. If the Vigilante is attacked from outside their equipped weapon's range, they automatically equip the backup weapon and viceversa.
Pref. Stats: SKL, SPD
Promotion Bonuses: +3 HP, +1 STR, +2 SKL, +3 LCK, +3 SPD, +2 CON, 7 MOV
Post by: SirAston on July 10, 2019, 09:47:10 am
Knight Trainee: new trainee that could have access to one of any of the three main physical weapons. Promotes to Knight and Forerider (name subject to change)
Forerider: New mounted class[...]
I could be wrong, but last time I checked, we've been making some efforts on the Discord server to remove Cavalier from the Soldier Trainee line (and replacing it with another class) because going from foot Trainee class to mounted First class is very unpopular?
I'm aware it's not something that would be included for the core rules. Just a word of warning.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 10, 2019, 10:33:33 am
Knight Trainee: new trainee that could have access to one of any of the three main physical weapons. Promotes to Knight and Forerider (name subject to change)
Forerider: New mounted class[...]
I could be wrong, but last time I checked, we've been making some efforts on the Discord server to remove Cavalier from the Soldier Trainee line (and replacing it with another class) because going from foot Trainee class to mounted First class is very unpopular?
I'm aware it's not something that would be included for the core rules. Just a word of warning.
Rider trainee has enough promotes as it is, so I'm not going to shove it in there, and this way Knight Trainee has more than one promo.
It's just for one game anyway, unless people end up liking it a lot.
Post by: Solymr on July 23, 2019, 01:14:42 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 23, 2019, 01:41:26 pm
Spoiler: My Thoughts on the value of DR as a mechanic (click to show/hide)
That aside I think renaming it would be prudent, given the initials are the same as for Defense and Resistance, and that has contributed to the confusion.
Post by: Swordstar on July 24, 2019, 09:15:49 am
:P
Post by: Chevaleresse on July 24, 2019, 10:37:40 am
Post by: Haspen on July 24, 2019, 11:45:53 am
Post by: Solymr on July 24, 2019, 12:25:00 pm
Post by: IamanElfCollaborator on July 24, 2019, 12:38:15 pm
EDIT: Never mind, had to go rethink what I said here and I wasn't quite accurate.
Post by: Sirus on July 24, 2019, 03:52:42 pm
Post by: TricMagic on July 24, 2019, 04:18:14 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 24, 2019, 04:32:46 pm
Keep in mind that if that happens, we may get enemies that are next to impossible to harm.
Enemy balance isn't going to be ruined by the addition of a defensive mechanic.
Post by: Solymr on July 24, 2019, 04:53:51 pm
Post by: Solymr on August 06, 2019, 09:42:58 am
Now I wanted to probe the opinion on the Mage skill Arcane Barrier. It was theorized before the new Wind subcategory so the effects each subcategory has is a bit outdated now. At the very least we want to make it so it provides DR regardless of tome used and slightly buff the amount it gives. But while we do that might as well ask if any other alternatives on its working are preferred.
You'll notice one of the options is switching with Scholar's Assessment. I thought of this since Scholar promotes to either a defensive class (Baron) or a jack of all stats (Virtuoso), while Mage promotes to a pure offense class (Mage Knight) and an offense/support class (Sage), so it may fit better for people going Scholar than Mage. If the switch happens Virtuoso might get a slight tweak in their class skill as well.
Post by: Solymr on August 18, 2019, 01:24:21 pm
Now for a completely different poll: we've noticed the lockpicks are a bit of a drag to keep in mind, personally I have forgotten to give them sometimes and just resorted to giving them out whenever they're needed. So the idea here would be making it so lockpicks as item disappear and units that could use lockpicks just have to use an action to unlock stuff (like Rogue currently does).
Post by: xelada on August 18, 2019, 08:32:05 pm
Lockpick management is less interesting than weapon durability, something that some GMs here discard (admittedly, mostly for enemies)
If we really want a "better" lockpicking class, we could give it canto after unlocking, and/or have unlocking be a free action.
Post by: Swordstar on August 18, 2019, 08:58:12 pm
Also, thieves already get canto after stealing or using lockpicks.
Post by: Solymr on August 19, 2019, 02:30:54 am
Post by: Haspen on August 19, 2019, 08:54:31 am
them getting Critical Eye
hisssss
Post by: Solymr on August 19, 2019, 03:47:12 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 19, 2019, 03:57:42 pm
Quote from: me but on discord
4:52 PM] BMM42: I voted for Loot and Run because having Steal become a sub ability to Mug is kind of weaksauce and I'm not about that. I'd rather make Stealing itself more good by having it cause nyoom
[4:53 PM] BMM42: Critical Eye is fine, but Rogue is the utility promo so it's kind of odd for them to get a combat centric ability when we have other options availble
[4:54 PM] BMM42: And really, to me, Mug would be uninteresting in practice
[4:55 PM] BMM42: Why steal when you can steal and do damage?
Also Hatkitty suggested the name "Loot and Scoot" and I'm all about that.
Post by: Unlurking Sentinel on August 19, 2019, 04:40:15 pm
Post by: Solymr on September 14, 2019, 01:38:05 pm
Get your units here:
Normal book: https://www.dropbox.com/s/df0xrgdkvkmk359/Players%20Handbook%20v2.3.pdf?raw=1
Abridged book: https://www.dropbox.com/s/n89le2l97u53ju7/Players%20Handbook%20v2.3%20Abridged.pdf?raw=1
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 18, 2019, 05:04:59 pm
New features include full stat tables for every class, first, promoted and monster, an expanded section on weapon building following the methods used for 2.3, and a section on enemy behavior.
Also a Third Tier Expansion (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1RgwVzO_7lVCxH_sVBYjAKc-GLavurRdJ)
Post by: Solymr on November 02, 2019, 09:00:03 am
- Stat caps, bases and bonuses review
- Class fluff rewrite
- Scavenger skill for goldless games (and Nomad Healer)
- Bishop skill
- Saint skill
- Mercenary skill
- Mountain Warrior skill
- Summoner's Phantom arsenal
- Knight and other Armored units MOV
- Adding a few more weapons
If anyone thinks of anything else to add let us know. There'll probably be some help needed for class fluff.
Post by: Solymr on December 01, 2019, 07:29:34 am
Post by: Solymr on December 04, 2019, 03:01:05 pm
Post by: Solymr on December 07, 2019, 11:56:29 am
Post by: Solymr on December 14, 2019, 03:49:55 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on December 14, 2019, 04:19:04 pm
Also wanted to break up the line of Soly posts a smidge.
Post by: Powder Miner on December 14, 2019, 04:37:00 pm
Post by: Culise on December 15, 2019, 12:16:47 am
Ain’t like we have a spate of broken thieves — the fact that they’re not very offensively oriented and the nature of thief skills means that a lot of thief time can be spent more or less doing nothing — which I think a 3 or 4 nerf would cause to happenAye. I'm not exactly seeing the need for a thief nerf.
Post by: SOLDIER First on December 15, 2019, 12:31:56 am
Quote from: Poll
5 votes for no nerf, 5 votes for nerf of -2
Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
Post by: Sirus on December 15, 2019, 01:29:29 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on December 15, 2019, 08:29:13 pm
Post by: Solymr on December 16, 2019, 07:58:38 am
Post by: Haspen on January 25, 2020, 09:04:37 am
Post by: Solymr on January 30, 2020, 10:30:26 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on January 30, 2020, 06:43:34 pm
The Bishop can use their action to give 5 DR to an adjacent ally for 2 rounds. Only one ally can benefit from this effect at a time. Applying Sanctuary to another ally removes it from the first, and applying it to the same ally resets the duration.
Post by: Solymr on February 05, 2020, 04:09:15 pm
Now onto the Saint: Transfer Might is a very unique skill but it's not enough by itself, which is why Staff Specialization was added. However "specialization" isn't really useful or interesting if everyone goes Heal so a few changes to these skills have been devised.
Transfer Might could be upgraded to Sacrifice: the Saint can transfer up to 5 points of any stat to an adjacent ally, lasting until either the ally or the Saint go down with no limit in allies.
Staff Specialization could be upgraded to Staff Mastery: the Saint can use two staves (or the same staff twice) in their turn.
If Staff Mastery isn't used, Staff Specialization would be removed in favor of leaving just the Overheal part of it for every Saint.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on February 05, 2020, 04:23:00 pm
Post by: TricMagic on February 05, 2020, 04:30:48 pm
Personally, Ailments for Saints are very low-tier, as it can only occur once in a map.
Quote
Staff Mastery: The Saint can target two different targets in range with a single Staff. This costs 2 QL instead of 1.
This gives a clear bonus while not completely breaking things. And higher tier staves with more range have less QL, so you do need to be careful with them. Though it also makes enemy Saints very deadly with an Ailment Staff. Perhaps tie it to the staff the Saint chose to specialize in?
As is, Ailment Staves are rather sad for any Player Saints to use.
Post by: Solymr on February 05, 2020, 04:32:10 pm
Post by: TricMagic on February 05, 2020, 04:39:10 pm
Maybe limit it to the saint's Level, With Level 1 Saint having one use of splashover per map, and each 5 levels granting them another? Granted, I see the issue of balance in the first place.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on February 05, 2020, 04:47:19 pm
Staff Mastery as you have it would be less abusable at least since you need to stick to one effect, so I definitely like it better than two staff uses straight up.
Post by: Solymr on February 05, 2020, 05:01:04 pm
Post by: TricMagic on February 05, 2020, 05:09:56 pm
Post by: Haspen on February 05, 2020, 05:16:58 pm
A curt reminder that if someone Picks the full unlock, some GM may decide to give a Saint Poison and Sleep Staves and use both on you. at once.
/me takes notes.
Post by: Powder Miner on February 05, 2020, 11:36:39 pm
Post by: Solymr on February 06, 2020, 04:59:21 am
Post by: Solymr on February 11, 2020, 04:57:40 pm
Post by: notquitethere on February 11, 2020, 05:26:15 pm
This is what the one I was using looks like:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: TricMagic on February 11, 2020, 05:28:01 pm
Post by: Solymr on February 11, 2020, 05:32:52 pm
Post by: notquitethere on February 11, 2020, 05:47:04 pm
I never managed to get that thing to work in the first place. So maybe add a guide on it too.Huh, well the one from this link (https://drive.google.com/file/d/11f6SnlF1ALMyknrPMCjwW29xesfQ2lDd/view)worked just fine. I downloaded and double-clicked the jar file and it loaded straight away.
I see that there's also a github project (https://github.com/cyaggi/CharacterCreatorRelease/)for the same thing.
Post by: TricMagic on February 11, 2020, 05:56:39 pm
Post by: notquitethere on February 11, 2020, 06:01:16 pm
Jar jar jar, what even is a .jar file.Seems to the Java equivalent to a .exe. It's a program that runs when you open it!
Post by: TricMagic on February 11, 2020, 06:01:47 pm
Post by: notquitethere on February 11, 2020, 06:14:28 pm
Post by: Solymr on March 04, 2020, 09:48:17 am
Post by: Solymr on March 04, 2020, 10:36:58 am
Top Off: When the Scavenger reduces an enemy to 0 HP in combat, they may regain one use on a consumable item in their inventory, excluding Elixirs. If the Scavenger has no consumables in their inventory below max uses, they instead gain a 1/3 vulnerary in an open inventory space if there is one.
Post by: notquitethere on March 09, 2020, 12:39:47 am
I have made a prototype of a Fire Emblem Calculator, and I need your help in testing it.
So far I have implemented:
- Character creation to trainee level
- Freeform character editing
- Importing and exporting character sheets
- Most character skills
- Terrain
- Various effects from dancing or items
and, most importantly:
- Battling!
The battling system pits an attacker vs a defender, you make both beforehand with the character creator, or import other people's creations. This test version has one character sheet included and a few enemy templates. V2 will have more.
Here is the file.
(https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SAQLMrjT_0NUdpzXvnCztNE5WBOI2f2G/view?usp=sharing) It's currently a gblorb, which you'll need a glulxe interpreter to run. Download info for a windows interpreter can be found here (http://www.davidkinder.co.uk/glulxe.html). Info on interpreters for other systems can be seen here (http://www.ifwiki.org/index.php/Glulx#Status_of_Interpreters). I'll look to upload a web version of V1 in the next few days so people can try this out in their browser of choice.
The project is on github, (https://github.com/notquitethere/FEF) if you would like to make your own fixes and changes, feel free to make pull requests! You'll find the source code and instructions for compiling it yourself.
Testing
If you do test it, please fill out the test spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eXZYu3kONT8PBdo3ltZgErlC8QwGzJCTh8yqeCmvIAQ/edit?usp=sharing). It has a sheet which lists a number of tests that need to be performed to test the current features, and it has a sheet for describing bugs you come across. I've gone ahead and put in some known issues to start. (I've made the sheet public because I trust that you're all good eggs, please don't sabotage it. I have copies so no real harm if it does get messed up.)
Look for a feature that hasn't been tested yet and give it a try and write up what you experienced and any issues. When you come across bugs and missing features, list them on the bug page. Skim over the existing bugs to make sure you're not making a dupe.
Post by: Solymr on March 09, 2020, 09:38:05 am
Post by: Unlurking Sentinel on May 18, 2020, 04:50:15 pm
Post by: TricMagic on June 10, 2020, 05:29:55 pm
Light and Dark, +2 DG.
Thunder, +2 Crit.
Ice, +1.5 Evade.
Water gets +0.5 Hit/Evade.
Heaven gets+ 0.5 Evade.
Earth gets 0.5 Hit.
Heaven and Earth may also receive a modification to +2.5 Crit/DG instead of 5 DG. (Due to talk of enemies not having high enough Crit for so much DG to matter in most cases)
On it's own, not much, but the .5s fit with other Affinities. While not boosting them too far with what they already have.
Light and Dark are counterpoints, so granting them a bit of DG does boost them to be near Fire, Wind, and Anima.
Thunder, like the spells tend to have a bit of crit. Thunder is a bit more focused on DR/Evade/DG though, so maybe 2.5 crit? 2 seems balanced enough though to make it a valid pick.
Ice is Defensive with 1.0 DR, so adding 1.5 Evade seems logical enough to boost it a smidgen. Also works with other evade supports.
Water is a jack of all, so .5 Hit/Evade is decent with it's .5 Dmg/DR. Kinda boosts it to be the anima of Jack-of-all-Trades, cable of supporting with anyone.
Heaven/Earth get .5 in either evade/hit, respectively. This means they can better support with other affinities while maintaining their specialties. *One might also consider messing with their DG to 2.5 Crit/2.5 DG.*
In this manner, supports tend to give a positive bonus no matter what the combination. So Anima is no longer as valuable all round due to the other affinities having received minor buffs which combine well with each other.
Heaven and Earth for example are complimentary granting 6 Hit/Evade and 5 Crit/Dodge.
Dark and Light each grant minor DG along with their normal bonuses. This makes them more valuble to pick.
Ice gets more defensive with the added Evade, which pairs well with Wind and Dark.
Thunder's is simpler, just adding a bit of crit to it's DR/Evade/DG. It works with Light for balence, and Water, which now can grant +3 Evade rather than the 2.5 Evade it would grant before. And +1 Hit too on the second support.(Kinda a weak pairing.) It can also choose to pair with Ice, which is a very good defensive pairing now thanks to Ice's 1.5 Evade and granting DR.(Which describes the main focus, making combinations better as a whole rather than focu entirely on Crit-supporting.) Whcih brings up Wind as a valid option, with the crit buff to Thunder and the Eva already present.
Water now has +0.5 DMG/DR/Hit/Evade, and +5 DG. 0.5 Hit/Dodge is extremely minor, but makes Water the best for overall pairigs. The only one it doesn't entirely get along with is Anima's straight DMG/Crit, only granting straightforward bonuses at B and S rank.. (That is where the beauty of it comes in, since stats can end up with .5 Hit/Evade left over, which would normally be rounded down.) For the others, Water works with Fire/Wind/Light/Dark/Thunder/Heaven/Earth. A rather large buff, but also a very small one. Jack of all, master of none.
Heaven gets +0.5 Eva, Earth gets +0.5 Hit. (Likewise, 2.5 Crit/Dodge being their new numbers, with agreement) For the ones mentioned, it mostly translates to a buff on an Affinity that may not be of use. Such high Hit/Evade is useful, sure, but compared to the others which recieved a buff, receiving a buff meant to work with other Affinities is a no brainer. They fit with those that have a +.5 in that stat, respectively.
For the Crit/DG modification that would need discussion. It would make them the most overall effective Affinities for support, supplanting Anima in some ways due to being good for either connecting or evading hits. Balanced, useful Affinities. Not that this would be a bad thing thematically. Earth Seals and Heaven Seals come to mind.
However, compared to other buffed Affinities and existing Affinities, they all have advantages now in their own ways. And all work in Supports.
Notes
This is mostly in thought that Anime(Anima) is dominating the Support Game. So, rather than just making a patch job of granting +2.5 Crit/Evade to all(even the purer defensive affinites), I thought of how to buff them to make the others have better Value in the Support Game. Fire, Wind, and Anima were fine,
Supporting Characters now have options other than just picking Anima(or other Crit boosters) to help out damage dealers deal damage. Defensive Characters have better options. And Offensive Characters have more options. Rather than all Affinities becoming alike, all Affinities grew closer to each other, better able to work with each other. More Unique Supports can occur as a result.
Looking at them, Light and Dark seem a mishmash, but now more so with the DG. So they are definitely Unique picks. More a result of a note that enemies don't tend to have high crit rates, so for the average PC, Dark and Light are useful options rather than full DG if you don't want to deal with stray crits. Heaven and Earth would also do that if they get modified to 2.5 Crit/DG, though with a different focus with Light/Dark still having Crit. Thunder meanwhile has added 2 Crit to it's 5 DG.
Think that's about all my rambling, are they decently thought out buffs? A lot more random in the middle than the Half +5 Crit / Half +5 DG, but that isn't a bad thing with Anima around in the current Support Meta.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 10, 2020, 07:58:11 pm
Post by: Haspen on June 11, 2020, 04:27:32 am
Post by: TricMagic on June 11, 2020, 07:17:39 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 11, 2020, 08:19:42 am
I would like to see a move away from values that aren't whole numbers though, just because it means some combinations are pretty bad because they lose a chunk of their value. If I were to rebalance Affinities based on my own sense of where things ought to be (without changing how the system works, per se), it would look something like...
Fire: +3 Hit, +5 Crit
Wind: +3 Hit, +3 Eva, +3 Crit
Dark: +3 Eva, +5 Crit
Heaven: +3 Hit, +5 DG
Earth: +3 Hit, +3 Eva, +3 DG
Thunder: +3 Eva, +5 DG
Water: +5 Crit, +5 DG
Anima: +1 DAM
Ice: +1 DEF
Light: +1RES
So what we get is, in addition to an overall reduction in power, an expulsion of cases in which pairing certain affinities together is suboptimal at all ranks but B.
Post by: Powder Miner on July 23, 2020, 02:36:25 am
Thunder (B)
For Memory Magic:
Level 1 (I think I already chose this one but fuck looking for it): Heal
Level 3: Primer Bolt
Level 5: Lightning, I suppose (RIP Druidic Magic)
THIS ISN'T THE FEF3 THREAD
WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH ME
Post by: Solymr on July 25, 2020, 04:07:34 pm
Now it's time to look at Duke Knight's Momentum: For every 2 spaces traversed, the Duke Knight gains a +1 AS bonus and a +2 DMG bonus. This bonus resets to 0 at the end of their turn, even if they haven't made an attack. This forces the Duke Knight to use their full MOV to charge in to make the most out of it. There's some alternate skills that offer bonuses without leaving them in the middle of the fray with nothing.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 25, 2020, 04:15:27 pm
I favor the latter. Any of the other options that follow the principle of the first solution do solve the problem of capacity for withdrawal, but also lower the barrier for maximum power on Momentum, making the turn to turn offensive power of it much greater.
Post by: SOLDIER First on July 25, 2020, 11:31:02 pm
Post by: Solymr on July 28, 2020, 01:40:33 pm
Then it's memory magic and after that only fluff remains to be done.
Post by: Solymr on August 03, 2020, 09:43:31 am
Post by: Haspen on July 03, 2021, 07:01:58 pm
Probably matter of weeks.
Quote
00:47] ctako of the awooo~: Basic lore in one sentence?
[00:50] Cthuwu: 3 kingdoms founded by 3 crusaders of white dragon goddess lived in peace for some 500 years but now there's trouble in provinces and one of kingdoms is behaving fishy
Also, I painted a map a la 80s macintosh, come enjoy the contrasty:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And here, barebones snippets of kingdom lore:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Solymr on July 04, 2021, 02:47:23 am
Post by: Haspen on July 04, 2021, 03:49:55 am
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on July 08, 2021, 01:29:05 am
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on July 08, 2021, 02:06:26 am
Post by: Haspen on July 08, 2021, 05:18:43 am
CONGRATURATONS! A WINNER IS YOU!
Post by: Takosher on August 16, 2021, 07:16:03 pm
Post by: IamanElfCollaborator on October 19, 2021, 08:13:45 am
Demon Soul Saga is recruiting, looking for 7 players, more information on the Discord. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179108.0)
Post by: Praefectus Screptum on October 19, 2021, 08:31:39 pm
For clarification/easy access:
Elf's Combat Artes (https://www.dropbox.com/s/tf6iu5lu54zskv6/Combat%20Arts%20%28ALPHA%29.txt?raw=1)
Elf's class/weapon supplement (https://www.dropbox.com/s/j1kbofuz2um0zfz/Elf%E2%80%99s%20Untested%2C%20Unconventional%20and%20Unarmed%20Supplement%20v0.80.pdf?raw=1)
Vote if possible, thank you! (https://strawpoll.com/hjbbxppsu)
PS: Had to reset the poll due to some wonkiness, apologies for the inconvenience.
Post by: IamanElfCollaborator on December 18, 2021, 03:40:53 pm
because i have too many ideas
and all of them are good
maybe
iunno lmao
Post by: IamanElfCollaborator on December 30, 2021, 06:37:16 pm
poll is closed, vrmmo fef 2: electric boogaloo won
so keep an eye out for that i guess
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on December 30, 2021, 08:28:53 pm
Post by: IamanElfCollaborator on January 08, 2022, 04:00:35 pm
vrmmo fef 2 electric boogaloo (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179425.0)
(or: rebel impulse i guess)
Post by: Solymr on May 07, 2022, 01:32:52 pm
https://www.dropbox.com/s/40q4082wx2trvlk/Calculator%20v0.3.ps1?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/40q4082wx2trvlk/Calculator%20v0.3.ps1?dl=0)
Download the script file, then right click and execute with PowerShell to open the GUI.
This version lets you:
-Save and load sheets for both characters and weapons
-Roll a battle between an attacker and a defender
-Add modifiers to both combatants
More coming later
Post by: Sirus on May 07, 2022, 02:51:39 pm
Post by: Solymr on May 23, 2022, 02:38:36 pm
https://www.dropbox.com/s/voog6eerrvol1in/Calculator%20v0.6.ps1?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gmx5rzjhlgxfotf/rolling.gif?dl=0
This version now has a complete battle calculator! Future features include rolling levels and managing campaign folders.
Post by: TricMagic on May 23, 2022, 02:53:39 pm
FEF Calculator (and more incoming) v0.5:In which all FEF GMs bow down to the great Solymr. 3 cheers!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lrgfkdqkkkiutld/Calculator%20v0.5.ps1?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gmx5rzjhlgxfotf/rolling.gif?dl=0
This version can:
- Roll combat between an attacker and a defender and track the amount of HP each has during the combat, stopping if one reaches 0 HP.
- Add various modifiers to each combatant, as well as specials such as modifiers that change depending on current HP status or Character Skills.
- Save and load sheets for characters and weapons, which also saves the specials.
- Keep a history of past rolls up to 10 combats.
- Change various contributions for combat formulas such as crit multiplier separate for each combatant.
- Add a funni gif that rolls when you click the roll button and can be customized.
This version can't (yet):
- Switch stats between attacker and defender with the click of a button.
- Actually take into account most Character Skills listed in the specials (though they can be saved).
- Roll level ups.
- Rig rolls for maximum huehuehue.
Spoiler: Preview (click to show/hide)
Post by: Sirus on May 23, 2022, 05:20:06 pm
Post by: notquitethere on May 23, 2022, 05:38:43 pm
Post by: Solymr on June 02, 2022, 03:35:34 pm
https://www.dropbox.com/s/voog6eerrvol1in/Calculator%20v0.6.ps1?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gmx5rzjhlgxfotf/rolling.gif?dl=0
This version now has a complete battle calculator! Future features include rolling levels and managing campaign folders.
Post by: Solymr on June 10, 2022, 05:08:40 am
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9jc5uf4omj5reka/Calculator%20v0.6.1.ps1?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gmx5rzjhlgxfotf/rolling.gif?dl=0
Added specials to modify final damage dealt and taken.
Post by: Solymr on June 15, 2022, 04:32:43 am
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ct4wzxw36kk4u4y/Calculator%20v0.6.2.ps1?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gmx5rzjhlgxfotf/rolling.gif?dl=0
Smol update to make it so the save dialogs automatically set the name as the one in the respective name box.
Post by: IamanElfCollaborator on June 15, 2022, 04:37:59 am
Elf's Supplemental Shenanigans Corner:
Major Works:
Player's Handbook 3.Elf (https://www.dropbox.com/s/bozcx649kcn1i0r/Players%20Handbook%20v3.Elf.pdf?raw=1) -- My own personal fork of the Player's Handbook, hopefully maintaining a level of parity with the main Player's Handbook.
Untested, Unconventional and Unarmed (https://www.dropbox.com/s/fe9d79fh2rr6eqy/Elf%E2%80%99s%20Untested%2C%20Unconventional%20and%20Unarmed%20Supplement%20v1.1.pdf?raw=1) -- My expanded class supplement, designed to add a glut of new classes, skills, weapons and mechanics. Designed to work with 3.Elf, but it will work with 3.0 with some conversion.
Gun-Totin', High-Falutin' (https://www.dropbox.com/s/uure64ye46tt7mb/Elf%E2%80%99s%20Gun-Totin%E2%80%99%2C%20High-Falutin%E2%80%99%20Firearm%20Supplement%200.6.pdf?raw=1) -- My gun classes, designed to add some gun-wielding fantasy flavour. Same deal regarding compatibility with 3.0/3.Elf. This supplement is currently under preliminary testing.
Manakete Shenanigans (https://www.dropbox.com/s/55kirdq5diwf57a/Elf%E2%80%99s%20Manakete%20Shenanigans%20Supplement%20v0.2.pdf?raw=1) -- Exactly what it says on the tin, this supplement adds Manaketes to the game.
Mainline Game Canon Supplement (https://www.dropbox.com/s/u7rvf1rxxf9ycks/Elf%E2%80%99s%20Mainline%20Game%20Classes%20Supplement%20v0.95.pdf?raw=1) -- A sort of supplement-lite, containing some excised classes from 3.0 and some canonical classes such as Oni Savage and Transporter, along with some packaged and popular Character Skills. For the GM that wants some additional spice, but isn't interested in something as insane as my main works.
GM Survival Guide (https://www.dropbox.com/s/2y25iq2sus5fma2/Elf%27s%20Declassified%20FEF%20GM%20Survival%20Guide.pdf?raw=1) -- A guide to any aspiring GM to learn how to GM a game of FEF. Compatible with the main PHB, as well as my own.
-- GM Supplement Guide (https://www.dropbox.com/s/34uodvsfx0a6xhx/Elf%27s%20Declassified%20FEF%20Supplemental%20GM%20Guide.pdf?raw=1) -- A guide to any aspiring GM seeking to use any of my supplements. Compatible primarily with 3.Elf, but 3.0 is also doable.
Minor Supplements:
Combat Artes (https://www.dropbox.com/s/tf36verwwjzk3gx/Combat%20Arts%20%28Fire%20Emblem%29.pdf?raw=1) -- This implements the Combat Arts mechanic from Three Houses into FEF.
Freeform Character Creation (https://www.dropbox.com/s/zhwr6r6e9rtwh20/FEF%20Freeform%20Development%20System.pdf?raw=1) -- This implements a freeform character creation for games that want to remain classless, based on swordstar's work in Gates of Tardore.
Spells (https://www.dropbox.com/s/5xm2rnxsmkze8jl/Spells%20%28Fire%20Emblem%29.pdf?raw=1) -- This implements a QL/Tomeless magic system as used in Demon Soul Saga, now altered to allow it to fit vanilla FEF.
---More content coming soon---
Post by: Solymr on June 17, 2022, 09:39:18 am
The Handbook v3.0 is here! Major changes include the yeeting of weapon subcategories and the introduction of Weapon Experience, and the addition of a few new classes.
Spoiler: More changes (click to show/hide)
Post by: Solymr on June 21, 2022, 02:43:57 pm
Small update to the Handbook with a few more tweaks. Only Abridged version for now as full will include new fluff.
Spoiler: More changes (click to show/hide)
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 22, 2022, 04:58:43 pm
Book variant from ya boi.
Matching GM Guide timeline is tbd it really just depends if I feel the need to do it.
Post by: Solymr on June 25, 2022, 08:59:11 am
https://www.dropbox.com/s/acge1dbe3bhy6rj/Calculator%20v0.6.3.ps1?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gmx5rzjhlgxfotf/rolling.gif?dl=0
Fix to specials applying bonuses too much or not applying at all.
Post by: Solymr on June 27, 2022, 01:28:56 pm
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fvisnqbxzostgqj/Calculator%20v0.6.4.ps1?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gmx5rzjhlgxfotf/rolling.gif?dl=0
Added specials for Critical Eye/Single Stroke, Aegis/Pavise, Great Shield, Pierce and Flare.
Next up: campaign manager tab (what that exactly entails to be decided) and level roller.
Post by: Solymr on June 29, 2022, 01:57:44 pm
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vz0dlpq2oaid8x0/Calculator%20v0.7.zip?dl=0
Made everything into a neat little zip with links to directly start the calculator with no console windows either in light on dark mode. Also optimized the code so it takes around half the size.
Also the saving and loading system (as well as switching combatants button) is slightly tweaked and takes into account advanced formulas, so you're gonna have to resave your files.
Next up: campaign manager tab (haven't even started yet) and level roller.
Post by: Solymr on June 30, 2022, 05:04:39 am
Post by: Solymr on July 03, 2022, 02:07:53 pm
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wtibgpg1un5275o/Calculator%20v0.7.1.zip?dl=0
As it turns out I bungled up the battle stats code so I fix.
Post by: Solymr on July 07, 2022, 02:12:56 pm
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w2nui924jggzs16/Calculator%20v0.8.zip?dl=0
Added a level roller. Soon it will be feature complete.
Post by: Solymr on July 08, 2022, 04:24:03 pm
Now with fluff for all classes! Also some tweaks to First Class bases to make them fit with Trainee + Promo bonuses.
Post by: Solymr on July 14, 2022, 06:13:15 am
Memory Magic has been changed to something a bit more flexible and less outdated.
Post by: Solymr on September 20, 2022, 05:53:35 am
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p3dlg7zpphs32gx/Calculator%20v1.0.1.zip?dl=0
I forgot to add the button to send as defender/attacker .<'
Post by: Solymr on October 23, 2022, 02:25:34 pm
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p3dlg7zpphs32gx/Calculator%20v1.0.1.zip?dl=0
I forgot to add the button to send as defender/attacker .<'
Post by: IamanElfCollaborator on November 29, 2022, 06:50:12 pm
Post by: IamanElfCollaborator on November 30, 2022, 07:26:19 pm
Post by: Solymr on April 14, 2023, 08:58:30 am
Post by: IamanElfCollaborator on April 14, 2023, 09:13:48 am
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on April 14, 2023, 10:11:51 am
Post by: Haspen on April 14, 2023, 10:20:41 am
Post by: Culise on April 15, 2023, 09:32:08 pm
Post by: Sirus on April 15, 2023, 10:42:31 pm
Post by: Solymr on May 06, 2023, 06:36:17 am
This small update caused the loss of several hours because of Word shenanigans.
Post by: Solymr on May 18, 2023, 01:38:06 pm
Manakete Supplement v1.0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/7h0m4mnkj5749xh/Manakete%20Supplement%20v1.0.pdf?raw=1)
How they work:
- Manaketes don't have classes or promotions, but have 350% Prog to compensate and Dragonstones grant stat bonuses.
- Dragonstones are leveled up like weapon types, gaining new attacks and stronger bonuses.
- Light attacks grant 1 Mana per combat up to 10 Mana, and Heavy attacks spend 5 Mana.
That's it really .<.
Post by: Solymr on May 20, 2023, 03:53:42 am
Post by: Solymr on September 19, 2023, 02:46:21 pm
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/s19ev6k2fwq4j589whc3j/Map-Manager-v0.5.ps1?rlkey=dxn4dfhhvfk1yghee28xdy1ih&dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/s19ev6k2fwq4j589whc3j/Map-Manager-v0.5.ps1?rlkey=dxn4dfhhvfk1yghee28xdy1ih&dl=0)
Download the script file, then right click and execute with PowerShell to open the GUI.
Map Manager v0.5 lets you:
-Create a map from a background file, headers and the specified parameters.
-Add units to the map either by dragging sprites onto the map or by saving a unit with a tile selected.
-Said units have a name, map sprite, team affiliation and moved/not moved options for now.
-Units can be moved around the map or dragged off it to delete them.
-The map can be saved to a txt file for later loading or printed directly into a png. In the printed map, sprites larger than tile size are drawn properly over others.
Future features include:
-Counters for how many units (allies/enemies/any) are within 1, 2, 3 or 4 spaces for various skill purposes.
-Adding status effects with sprites to a list to overlay their icons over unit sprites and keep track of them.
-Adding auras of various sizes to attach to units, whether drawn or not (including supports).
-Adding a list to see which auras the selected unit is under.
-Terrain definition with bonuses and MOV costs.
-Integration with Calculator.
Post by: RoseHeart on September 20, 2023, 08:49:52 am
Post by: Solymr on September 20, 2023, 01:54:47 pm
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/mnrsg7toiy9br2b4tjjbl/Map-Manager-v0.6.ps1?rlkey=7bh0x9bh6cbsmixdzaj6j8hmy&dl=0
Now grayscales units that have already moved and counts how many units/allies/enemies are in range, depending on the selected unit's team.
Post by: Solymr on September 21, 2023, 01:17:10 pm
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/8spxc22gnyr6bzcg5nf68/Map-Manager-v0.7.ps1?rlkey=y1y8dbtmi8bg9mnyi23v1d9ee&dl=0
Added status features and moved UI stuff that will become functional probably tomorrow ;v
Post by: Solymr on September 22, 2023, 05:45:27 am
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/1qm1jhm9gem59d8tjbcg5/Map-Manager-v0.8.ps1?rlkey=zm4wx0ni5rwwlr6i43fxnqtrm&dl=0
Auras now added which means this can now print complete maps.
Post by: Solymr on September 26, 2023, 11:13:14 am
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ldxvvyvttohtggxhh53tm/Map-Manager-v0.8.1.zip?rlkey=9mgomhnz128krmtvr1fa5hhnh&dl=0
Fixed auras being printed twice and reloaded on every move which caused slowdown. Also packed with a link to start it directly and my headers, auras and status icons ;v