Can they have higher rates of material wear, making them lords of the garbage heaps?Its easier to make them tantrum without adding lots of micromanagement and FPS-hurting garbage-items. ;)
Combined with lost of materials and maybe slow learn rates, few well crafted items means they should always be unhappy and hard to keep satisfied so they will tantrum spiral a lot.
May not be doable yet, but can you send out goblins as kidnappers, then raise the babies in the fortress among the goblins? So goblin fortresses become filled with tons of children, and it's a very baby-centric game? You're running an armed, slaverunning daycare?Sure, similar to orc-raiders. But I cant spawn babies themselves. I can spawn 1-year old humans for example, but they are treated as fully-grown humans that can do labors.
This summoning of demons would be nessecary to flushing out over time gradually worse traits to powerful demon lords such as excessive mandates with a end-level demon becoming 'crazed' and therefore a threat to the tower. Resummoning and forcing this conflict also keeps goblins on their toes and occasionally dead, clearing away the trash to the troll pits where bones and bodies are recycled for trolls.You mean summoned demons that are super-tough and can be good military, but eventually/occasionally go berserk?
You mean summoned demons that are super-tough and can be good military, but eventually/occasionally go berserk?
Can they have higher rates of material wear, making them lords of the garbage heaps?
Combined with lost of materials and maybe slow learn rates, few well crafted items means they should always be unhappy and hard to keep satisfied so they will tantrum spiral a lot.
That is a very intense Arena progression. I'd hate to meet the "kobold champion" that comes several levels after a bronze colossus. :PLots of scripting = one line in onload.init, one reaction with 3 lines.
The inclusion "spawn nothing, upgrade it again with stuff that you definitely have" levels seem like a lot of scripting overhead for nothing to me.
the champions should get some special interactions and skills. A bronze colossus is big and dumb, but a kobold with shuriken, poison and level 15 in dodging?
Anything that has to do with farming animals or plants is out, as is academic stuff like books or writing.I think that's more because goblins do not eat or drink in vanilla. Why would they farm for food they don't need?
Goblins seem to pay the iron price for their food... they do not sow.
its ONE workshop.
You finish battle one, it upgrades to the next stage. This way I have a clear progression through a combat-based tech-tree.
If its constantly evolving, wouldn't that negate the fact you might want to grind lucrative loot from it? Rather than have to rebuild every time to get some cheap loot (unless its fights were repeatable at any stage)Thats the point. I want each fight to be only fought once per fortress. If you set up 50 archer-goblins on ramparts and spawn unlimited animals to fight, the entire game becomes trivial.
daisha: Several years I hope. Its their tech advancement with the friendly demons being the equivalent of the nuke/superweapon in any strategy game. I cant make units spawn with equipment either, so 3 dwarven slaves = 3 nude dwarves without weapons. (the champions would be custom units with interactions)
QuoteIf its constantly evolving, wouldn't that negate the fact you might want to grind lucrative loot from it? Rather than have to rebuild every time to get some cheap loot (unless its fights were repeatable at any stage)Thats the point. I want each fight to be only fought once per fortress. If you set up 50 archer-goblins on ramparts and spawn unlimited animals to fight, the entire game becomes trivial.
the setup just prepare traps around the arena and a puppy/equivilent on a chain and watch the traps do all the work for you.yeah, as if I wouldnt make EVERYTHING that spawns there trap-immune. :P (and immune to temperature, drowning, magma, etc)
Grind that stuff, get sick cash and loot is what i'd endorse to keep the fighting never-ending rather than a progression slog to practically insta-win units that can basically discard all your current military bands.No grinding, thats the point of the progression system. You shouldnt spawn enemies to get material like leather and meat, that would make the game trivial. You spawn difficult challenges that you have to win to unlock more parts of the mode.
Goblins seem to pay the iron price for their food... they do not sow.
Anything that has to do with farming animals or plants is out
But I can't figure out how to make goblins interesting. All I can come up with is a mix of kobolds, succubi and orcs:
-Mass-production of low-quality gear.
-Large amount of goblin units.
-Lots of infighting, combat training due to fights, etc.
-Kidnapping other civ-units for slavery.
- Torture room for positive toughts.
-Demon-summoning.
- Slave auction to sell kidnapped civ-units.
- Troll pet system with upgrades.
-Poisons
-Lots of obsidian/magma for that dark-tower feel.
- Sacrificial pit
- food production through farming vermin/hives
- Barghest/Beak dog/warg pets.
- mercenary workshop that hires ettins, ogres, minotaurs, giants, etc.
Given goblins don't eat or drink
QuoteGiven goblins don't eat or drink
I'm not sure if I can leave them like that... it might be very difficult to make the goblins challenging if you can just wall them in and do nothing.
Thats the only real way of getting around thatRemoving the NOEAT and NODRINK tags would get around that.
QuoteThats the only real way of getting around thatRemoving the NOEAT and NODRINK tags would get around that.
Same here.
I think the no_eat and no_drink tags should be removed entirely
How about have the no-eat/no-drink tags wear off after a while from some timer, and renew the timer for any goblin that makes a kill? That way world-gen goblins stay numerous, a player can't just seal off some unlucky soul in a vault, and murder is thematically encouraged.I like this. Together with restricting farming and making sure trolls do need to eat, it would make for an interesting experience. Although it may be advised to allow shearing so they can use troll fur to make clothes.
This I can do.How about have the no-eat/no-drink tags wear off after a while from some timer, and renew the timer for any goblin that makes a kill? That way world-gen goblins stay numerous, a player can't just seal off some unlucky soul in a vault, and murder is thematically encouraged.I like this. Together with restricting farming and making sure trolls do need to eat, it would make for an interesting experience. Although it may be advised to allow shearing so they can use troll fur to make clothes.
The infighting I cant, because there is no fair way to control it, especially considering loyality cascades.
If you couple a need to kill with workshops that summon enemies, you have a new and interesting system. The only problem is that might end up involving a lot of micromanaging in order to make sure your citizens all get kills.This I can do.How about have the no-eat/no-drink tags wear off after a while from some timer, and renew the timer for any goblin that makes a kill? That way world-gen goblins stay numerous, a player can't just seal off some unlucky soul in a vault, and murder is thematically encouraged.I like this. Together with restricting farming and making sure trolls do need to eat, it would make for an interesting experience. Although it may be advised to allow shearing so they can use troll fur to make clothes.
The infighting I cant, because there is no fair way to control it, especially considering loyality cascades.
I've yet to see actual fighting in fortress mode for goblins. I hadnt had a tantrum spiral in years.The infighting I cant, because there is no fair way to control it, especially considering loyality cascades.
Nah, doesn't need altercation, and to be honest despite giving positive thoughts, the quick temperament of goblins and propensity to start fights is more positively affected by confidence boosting alcohol than anything. Those needs just build up and the goblins act on them themselves to let off some steam if you don't allocate a job for them to do when they go to talk to one another.
If they do not please their master demon, they will incur its wrath. Pleasing implies having death on the map, even if you have to stage your own people death. You'll be hard pressed to open the caverns and kill anything that approaches or setting a temple and sacrifice the visitors. Otherwise you get a bunch of pretas or some terrible stuff like that.
I've yet to see actual fighting in fortress mode for goblins. I hadnt had a tantrum spiral in years.The infighting I cant, because there is no fair way to control it, especially considering loyality cascades.
Nah, doesn't need altercation, and to be honest despite giving positive thoughts, the quick temperament of goblins and propensity to start fights is more positively affected by confidence boosting alcohol than anything. Those needs just build up and the goblins act on them themselves to let off some steam if you don't allocate a job for them to do when they go to talk to one another.
But I can't figure out how to make goblins interesting. All I can come up with is a mix of kobolds, succubi and orcs:
- Mass-production of low-quality gear.
- Large amount of goblin units.
- Lots of infighting, combat training due to fights, etc.
- Kidnapping other civ-units for slavery.
- Torture room for positive toughts.
- Demon-summoning.
- Slave auction to sell kidnapped civ-units.
- Troll pet system with upgrades.
- Poisons
- Lots of obsidian/magma for that dark-tower feel.
- Sacrificial pit
- food production through farming vermin/hives
- Barghest/Beak dog/warg pets.
- mercenary workshop that hires ettins, ogres, minotaurs, giants, etc.