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Finally... => Forum Games and Roleplaying => Topic started by: Tawa on August 08, 2014, 06:51:30 pm

Title: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC--Great Revival
Post by: Tawa on August 08, 2014, 06:51:30 pm
Spoiler: World Map (click to show/hide)


Players
Th4DwArfY1 (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=12195)
Dwarmin (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=458647)
PrivateNomad (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=982922)
Flying Dice (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=983117)
My Name is Immaterial (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=14528)
Nerjin (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=29437)

IC Thread. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=142347.0)
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: PrivateNomad on August 08, 2014, 06:53:30 pm
OOH, OOH, RESERVE!
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: TD1 on August 08, 2014, 07:02:12 pm
[Eventual resting place of my character sheet]
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: flame99 on August 08, 2014, 08:02:07 pm
I'll go ahead and reserve this for my character. I have a few things to do, though, so it'll be a bit. Also, I tend to focus more on the roleplaying aspect than the gameplay aspect when making a character sheet, so it's probably going to be pretty badly optimized.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 08, 2014, 08:04:52 pm
That's fine.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: PrivateNomad on August 08, 2014, 08:05:58 pm
Are their Warforged in this setting?
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 08, 2014, 08:08:50 pm
No.

Partially because they aren't in the SRD, if I recall correctly.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: flame99 on August 08, 2014, 08:09:55 pm
Weren't they in Ebberon?
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: PrivateNomad on August 08, 2014, 08:10:47 pm
No.

Partially because they aren't in the SRD, if I recall correctly.
M'kay. Are we only using races from the PHB?

Weren't they in Ebberon?
Yeah, but you can adjust them to other settings. I just love Warforged.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 08, 2014, 08:13:45 pm
Let's see... Player races and +0 LA races are cool. If you're a tier 4 or 5 class, if you want a +1 or +2 race or template, run it by me and I'll tell you if it's cool.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: PrivateNomad on August 08, 2014, 08:25:33 pm
What about Kalashtar?
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: flame99 on August 08, 2014, 08:29:53 pm
I'm not really familiar with the point buy system. Presumably, it involves buying ability score with points, but what are the specifics of the system?
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 08, 2014, 08:33:22 pm
Here you go. (http://1d8.blogspot.com/2011/02/d-35-point-buy-calculator.html)

PN: Let's see... Not in the SRD, apparently.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: PrivateNomad on August 08, 2014, 08:35:17 pm
http://dndtools.eu/races/races-of-eberron--10/kalashtar--39/

Just remove anything related to Eberron. It's cool if you don't allow it, I was just wondering.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 08, 2014, 08:37:57 pm
Hmmmm... no.

Sorry.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: PrivateNomad on August 08, 2014, 08:40:05 pm
M'kay... Hmm, might do a gray elf? I don't need Strength right?
Right?

Basically I plan on being a psion shaper.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 08, 2014, 08:42:43 pm
I guess.

Or something.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Flying Dice on August 08, 2014, 09:42:58 pm
Reserve. Sheet up after I do actions and stuff in other DnD threads.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: PrivateNomad on August 08, 2014, 09:43:30 pm
Quim Whitmire (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=982922)

Is this okay?
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 08, 2014, 09:55:02 pm
PN: I guess, if a bit... minimalistic.

FD's name added to list.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: PrivateNomad on August 08, 2014, 09:57:22 pm
PN: I guess, if a bit... minimalistic.

FD's name added to list.
I'll expand on it eventually.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: PrivateNomad on August 08, 2014, 10:02:52 pm
-snip-
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Flying Dice on August 08, 2014, 10:07:42 pm
Tawa: If you do allow someone to take a LA+1 or LA+2 template, will you allow LA buyoff?
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on August 08, 2014, 10:13:42 pm
If limit hasn't been reached, I'm in.
/me groans inwardly that he's been sucked in by another of Taw's games.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 08, 2014, 10:16:06 pm
If limit hasn't been reached, I'm in.
/me groans inwardly that he's been sucked in by another of Taw's games.

BWAHAHA

FD: You mean like the extra points for taking lower-tier classes in your game, right? If so, sure.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Nerjin on August 08, 2014, 10:30:03 pm
Harold "The Butcher" Arinson (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=980131) is ready if you're willing. [After a few minor changes to his lack of items situation.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on August 08, 2014, 10:38:59 pm
Is stuff from D&D Tools okay Taw?
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 08, 2014, 10:51:07 pm
Is stuff from D&D Tools okay Taw?
What stuff?
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Flying Dice on August 08, 2014, 10:56:51 pm
If limit hasn't been reached, I'm in.
/me groans inwardly that he's been sucked in by another of Taw's games.

BWAHAHA

FD: You mean like the extra points for taking lower-tier classes in your game, right? If so, sure.

No, no. I meant LA Buyoff (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm). Unless you're letting people with T4/5 classes take the LA without the usual penalty? Basically, how LA works is that if you take a template on character creation, it changes your Effective Character Level, which determines your threat level and how much XP you effectively have. This means that it increases both the difficulty of the enemies the character faces as well as the treasure they earn, but most importantly they require their ECL worth of XP to advance to their next class level.

So for example, a Warlock 1 with a LA+2 template would have an ECL of 3, because their template effectively makes them equivalent to a LA+0 race with three class levels (though, notably, they lack all of the normal features of leveling up -- bonus feats, class features, &c. What this means is that in a party of CL1 characters, where the rest of the party would need 1,000 xp to advance to class level 2, the character with a LA+2 template would require 6,000 xp to advance to class level 2, which would be how much a CL3 character (remember that with LA+2 a CL1 character's ECL is 3) would need to advance to CL4.

Hence, it's fairly obvious what sort of tradeoff LA is. It plays several roles: RP facilitator, by creating unique opportunities; short-term benefit (at CL 1 you are more powerful); and very long-term benefit provided LA buyoff is allowed (aka at 20th level a character with a template who payed the XP cost to buy off their levels would be more powerful than if they had never taken LA). The tradeoff is that it takes a character with LA vastly more time to advance in level, even if buyoff is allowed, which in turn means that they are slower to acquire class features and have to rely on the raw bonuses from their template to hold their own past the point where it's a real advantage. This is especially detrimental to casters, who desperately need class levels to increase their potency in combat.

Also, a couple templates for approval/rejection. I'm working on ideas for a warlock. I'll give a basic summary of each so you don't need to dig through books.

Spoiler: Petal (MMIII, pp. 121) (click to show/hide)

And actually, if you bar that, I might just go plain-jane human, since most of the other low-LA templates are either basic racial variations or complete absurdity. That said, I'll say this: If you allow me to take that template, I would sincerely recommend NOT making it free LA (aka I take the normal penalty), but DO allow LA Buyoff (meaning that as per this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm), I can pay an XP cost equal to [(current ECL -1) x 1,000] to reduce my LA by 1 at every third class level.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: flame99 on August 08, 2014, 10:58:01 pm
Karath the Ranger (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=982929) is ready.

Note that his race and history are both unknown to the other players, and not noted on the character sheet. In addition, some of his special abilities aren't listed on the sheet. Tawarochir, I'll be PMing you with his full backstory once I'm slightly less busy.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 08, 2014, 11:05:29 pm
FD: I was making it free but dropping racial hit dice and AC. I did that because tier 4 and 5 classes suck. Mostly. (Rangers and rogues are typically handy unless they get overshadowed by optimized bards and druids, for one.)

Anyway, I'll have to say no to the template.

flameboy: Alright, cool.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Nerjin on August 08, 2014, 11:16:13 pm
Did you see my submission? Just wanting to know if he'll work or not.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 08, 2014, 11:26:46 pm
Looks good except for the fact that his name is Harold.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on August 08, 2014, 11:28:12 pm
Is stuff from D&D Tools okay Taw?
What stuff?
Feats, spells, classes, the whole package.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Nerjin on August 08, 2014, 11:30:43 pm
Well my reasoning for the name was I wanted it to be mundane. It was funny to me that someone who got so wrapped up in their alter ego "The Butcher" would have a rather boring and plain name. But if you would prefer I change it... He will have the name of... Aust "The Butcher" Volen.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 08, 2014, 11:33:27 pm
Is stuff from D&D Tools okay Taw?
What stuff?
Feats, spells, classes, the whole package.
No.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on August 08, 2014, 11:43:58 pm
Oh. Can I ask why?
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Flying Dice on August 08, 2014, 11:44:21 pm
FD: I was making it free but dropping racial hit dice and AC. I did that because tier 4 and 5 classes suck. Mostly. (Rangers and rogues are typically handy unless they get overshadowed by optimized bards and druids, for one.)

Anyway, I'll have to say no to the template.

flameboy: Alright, cool.

Hehe, already drew it up. Time to scrap another sheet.

Might do something from ToB, might do a human Warlock. Let's see... :x

Would you allow the Karsite template? LA+2, Tome of Magic.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 08, 2014, 11:53:14 pm
Quote from: Flying Dice
ToB

Aaaaugh, did you guys not notice that I said 'SRD only' in the OP?

I just didn't want to have to look up some esoteric sourcebook every time I forget what some feat or spell does. :(
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Nerjin on August 08, 2014, 11:54:51 pm
So... If I were to take a trait what happens? I know flaws give extra feats apparently but what does a trait take away?
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 09, 2014, 12:11:48 am
Traits have a disadvantage and advantage. You just take the trait.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Flying Dice on August 09, 2014, 12:24:49 am
Quote from: Flying Dice
ToB

Aaaaugh, did you guys not notice that I said 'SRD only' in the OP?

I just didn't want to have to look up some esoteric sourcebook every time I forget what some feat or spell does. :(

Heh, sorry. Going to be a 'lock anyways. Silverbrow Human okay with you? (RotD, LA+0, only difference is that they have Disguise as a class skill, 1/day featherfall, and have the dragonblood subtype, meaning that they're affected by things which target dragons specifically). Incidentally, the feats I took are from Complete Mage, and are pretty much required fluff-wise for playing a non-Evil warlock.

Mostly done save the fluff. (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=983117)
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 09, 2014, 12:31:53 am
Quote from: Tawarochir
SRD only
SRD only
SRD only
SRD only
SRD only
I meant that.
Feel free to make a warlock-flavored sorcerer.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Nerjin on August 09, 2014, 12:32:41 am
You know... I think I'm going to go for the whole traits and flaws thing this time around. It's something that might be fun to try... I'll take Quick for a trait and Weak Willed + Poor Reflexes as flaws. I will be putting why he has them in the Other Notes box.

I also took Two Weapon Defense and Blind Fight as my Flaw Feats.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on August 09, 2014, 12:36:40 am
Quote from: Tawarochir
SRD only
SRD only
SRD only
SRD only
SRD only
I meant that.
I know, I just don't understand it. D&D Tools has everything, also for free.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 09, 2014, 12:39:31 am
I just didn't want to have to look up some esoteric sourcebook every time I forget what some feat or spell does. :(
We also have a 3.5 noob on the premises.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Nerjin on August 09, 2014, 12:41:00 am
I know, I just don't understand it. D&D Tools has everything, also for free.

Isn't that illegal or something?

Edit: So... will my name be added to the list up yonder or... Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse about this I'm just wondering if my character still isn't up to snuff.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 09, 2014, 12:44:12 am
I think that WotC stopped making 3.5 books a while back. The site is big enough that they'd be arrested by now if they were going to be.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Nerjin on August 09, 2014, 12:45:12 am
Eh, works for me.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on August 09, 2014, 12:46:44 am
I know, I just don't understand it. D&D Tools has everything, also for free.

Isn't that illegal or something?
As far as I can tell, nope. It hasn't been taken down, at least. The only thing there is this:
Quote
Disclaimer

If you, by any chance, wonder on a page from a rulebook you do not OWN (the source material is always referred both in url and in page contents), please, leave that page, buy the book and then return.
And let's be honest, who actually follows this.
You do, don't you.
Just my luck.
Edit: I'm not really sure if my question has been answered.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 09, 2014, 12:49:29 am
Nerjin, I'll add your name to the list tomorrow.

What question, Immaterial?
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on August 09, 2014, 12:50:24 am
Is stuff from D&D Tools okay Taw?
What stuff?
Feats, spells, classes, the whole package.
No.
Oh. Can I ask why?
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 09, 2014, 12:53:09 am
Oh.

The "SRD only" was in reference to Flying Dice's statement. The thing at the top of Page 4 is in response to your statement.

There's also the DnDTools disclaimer, considering the fact that I have no 3.5 splatbooks.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on August 09, 2014, 12:54:57 am
Shrug. I'll be back with a character.
I wonder if a psiwarogue would be possible?
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Flying Dice on August 09, 2014, 12:58:13 am
It's all SRD materials. AKA the stuff you can disseminate for free.

Quote from: Tawarochir
SRD only
SRD only
SRD only
SRD only
SRD only
I meant that.
I know, I just don't understand it. D&D Tools has everything, also for free.

Was that in reference to me? Because if you're going to disallow the Complete series, I might honestly just not play. They're practically required if you're going to do literally anything interesting, especially in terms of feats. They're about as far from obscure as you can get without being the PHB or DMG, and everything in them is about two seconds away thanks to d20SRD and the wonders of google. You don't even have to look them up; just ask and we can post links. :|

I can drop the Silverbrow, of course, but that's Dragon Magic, which is, like RoTD... pretty much also required if you're going to do literally anything involving dragons in the campaign. But since you probably won't allow multiclassing into Chameleon, it doesn't matter much and since the campaign hasn't started I can lose it and tune up my mental backstory.

At any rate, completed sheet. Human warlock, not even trying to do stuff with glaivelock/clawlock shenanigans. (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=983117) Take it or leave it, because I'm really not interested in the sort of snorefest that'll come of a campaign with nothing but nerfed Druids/Clerics/Sorcs and core-only Rogues/Fighters/Barbs. It'd take god-tier face-to-face roleplay to save the combat from that, TBH.

e: Here's literally everything I used that isn't in PHB/DMG:

Warlock (http://dndtools.eu/classes/warlock/)
Silverbrow Human (http://dndtools.eu/races/dragon-magic--62/silverbrow-human--47/)
Fey Heritage (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-mage--58/fey-heritage--1110/)
Fey Power (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-mage--58/fey-power--1112/)
Fey Skin (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-mage--58/fey-skin--1114/)

I mean, I understand not wanting to throw in stuff from Faerun or Stormwrack/Lords of Madness/whatever, but when there's stuff that's incredibly basic, provides massive quality of life improvements, and is available free and legally, I don't see why...
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on August 09, 2014, 01:00:56 am
I just didn't want to have to look up some esoteric sourcebook every time I forget what some feat or spell does. :(
We also have a 3.5 noob on the premises.
I'm sorry, but this is sort of a flimsy excuse...
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Flying Dice on August 09, 2014, 01:20:54 am
I just didn't want to have to look up some esoteric sourcebook every time I forget what some feat or spell does. :(
We also have a 3.5 noob on the premises.
I'm sorry, but this is sort of a flimsy excuse...
Technically speaking, I'm also a 3.5 noob. I've never played a full campaign. Hell, the farthest I've gotten in a 3.5 campaign is whichever of the currently running ones here (among those I'm a player in) is the farthest along, so probably around the second encounter. It's an incredibly flimsy excuse; you don't learn about the system by screwing your eyes shut and sticking your fingers in your ears whenever someone mentions splatbooks, you dive head-first into the really arcane (in the non-magical sense) stuff and asking all the questions you can. I pretty much self-taught myself by ramming my face into PDFs, the SRD, and more experienced players until stuff stuck. It's often unintuitive, but that's where the magic of the internet comes in; I literally have a folder full of hundreds of 3.5-related bookmarks that I reference all the time when in game threads. :P

It's not the experience you have, it's the willingness to research, learn, and explore -- I can't speak for anyone else, but learning how things work is at least as much fun as playing the game. But maybe I'm a bit off from normal in the research side, considering the direction I'm taking with my academic work is pretty much pure research.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on August 09, 2014, 02:03:32 am
That's pretty much my story too. When I played my first game on here, I had almost no idea what was going on. If I didn't know what I was doing, I googled it. And I found stuff ten times as cool as anything the PHB, the MM, the DMG, or anything in the SRD.
As a DM: I've had to. Many people on the forums know all the different systems, and I've been reduced to pulling out Pathfinder and really obscure content as challenges to create a sense of mystery in my games.

But as a player: The feat selection on the SRD is TERRIBLE. Core has nothing interesting for anyone, except the most bland fighters and barbarians. And that's not interesting.

Since LA +0 races are cool:
Spoiler: Changeling (click to show/hide)
I'm also considering taking the following Alternate Class Feature to be a social rogue:
Spoiler: Social Intuition (Ex) (click to show/hide)

Here's what I have so far. (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=12079)
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Harbingerjm on August 09, 2014, 03:08:44 am
Next is class-fixing.
-Tier 1 classes are banned unless otherwise noted. Meaning no wizards. Also meaning that the only wizards are basically old guys locked up in towers who can't be bothered to come out into the world and are only good if you need a 9th level spell cast or something.
-Tier 2 classes are only available under the condition that you sacrifice a single point modifier in a skill of your choice. So sorcerers and psions are weaker in one skill of their choice, likely Strength.
-Clerics are OK, but we are using the Spontaneous Divine Casters (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/spontaneousDivineCasters.htm) variant from Unearthed Arcana for them and the Bard's spells per day table.
-Druids are cool if you use the Bard's spells per day table. They don't have to use the Spontaneous Casters rule.
Quote from: Tawarochir
SRD only
SRD only
SRD only
SRD only
SRD only
I meant that.
This whole campaign... Hahahaha... Oh wow, this is too hilarious to be true.

Ok, Taw, I'll bite. Making a character, if there are any spaces left.

I know, I just don't understand it. D&D Tools has everything, also for free.
Isn't that illegal or something?
OGL.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 09, 2014, 10:57:43 am
Ok, Taw, I'll bite. Making a character, if there are any spaces left.
Sorry, we're out. I got you waitlisted.

As for the discussion on the page about non-SRD stuff, I guess that if you insist I'll allow the Complete books for classes and feats. ONLY classes and feats.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: flame99 on August 09, 2014, 01:33:09 pm
In that case, I'll take Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting (I take penalties as if my offhand weapon is light) instead of Improved Initiative. Also, I'm exchanging my handaxe for a battleaxe.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on August 09, 2014, 02:15:46 pm
Taw, if we take a Weapon Profienceny feat, and then do the training mentioned in the house rules, can we retrain that feat?
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 09, 2014, 09:38:34 pm
Sure.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: The Froggy Ninja on August 10, 2014, 12:10:56 pm
ptw
Are alchemists allowed? They're not on the SRD but it's my preferred class.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 10, 2014, 12:27:02 pm
1. Waitlist?
2. What book?
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Flying Dice on August 10, 2014, 12:29:01 pm
Alright, then I should be good to go.

Sheet in final form. (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=983117) I'm glad I took the time to go over it again, all of the flaws, ability scores, skills, &c. form a much more coherent picture of a person now.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: The Froggy Ninja on August 10, 2014, 12:31:02 pm
Pathfinder
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 10, 2014, 12:41:12 pm
FD: Alright, looks like you're good to go.
TFN: This is DnD. Not Pathfinder. So no.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: PrivateNomad on August 10, 2014, 12:42:10 pm
There's a homebrew alchemist class.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 10, 2014, 12:59:10 pm
But what would the purpose be? You could just take Sorcerer and put a bunch of skill points into Craft (Alchemy).
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: PrivateNomad on August 10, 2014, 01:04:06 pm
Because it's not completely aligned to throwing acid and poisoning shit
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Alchemist_(3.5e_Class)

But if we need a poisoner, Quim has that handled. Minor creation, baby. Why did you think I put some ranks into Craft (Poisonmaking)?
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Flying Dice on August 10, 2014, 02:04:18 pm
If you want, you could try to talk our DM into allowing some/all of the houserules for poisons and alchemicals from the abortive kobold campaign. They make it pretty attractive for rogues to specialize in thrown/splash weapons. Not least because with a few ranks in Craft (Poisonmaking) you remove the chance to accidentally poison yourself, so you don't need to waste a feat on what should really not have been a thing to begin with. Not my concern for once, though, but I'll throw them up if you're interested.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 10, 2014, 05:16:49 pm
Where's this abortive kobold campaign?

Also, I'm rewriting the geography and stuff of the world because the old one was kind of lame, what with the huge dorf kingdom and the isolated southwestern continent and stuff.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Flying Dice on August 10, 2014, 09:26:03 pm
I've since collected the various elements of the relevant material, because it was a bit spread out. Keep in mind that there's almost nothing anywhere in published materials regarding poisonmaking, and what there is is mostly shit.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That said, as there are so few rules, there's probably room for other streamlining bits. Two things you'd probably want to consider would be vastly increasing the craft speed for poisons and possibly alchemicals, as well as increasing the amount of doses a character with skill points in Survival could potentially harvest from a wild source (I recall one memorable quote about RAW would require a character with a +30 Survival check to kill 14 purple worms for enough to make a single dose of poison, which sells for ~700gp). The typical solution I've heard is to create a feat called Brew Poison or some such equivalent to Scribe Scroll, allowing a character to make poisons at the rate of 1 day of crafting per 1,000gp base price, costing 1/2 cost of materials and 1/25th cost in XP.

Ofc. that's just in terms of the crafting side, and making it not insanely stupid. The sneak attack and crit applications are already pretty suited to it; a 1st level rogue would get to add +2 to the DC of their thrown items (or an additional 1d6 typed damage for something like a firestone) while sneak-attacking, while a 20th level rogue would add +20 to the DC/ +10d6 typed damage. The primary balancing factor here is that your main source of sneak attacks, flanking, doesn't work with ranged weapons, which means that you essentially either have to have excellent initiative and a backup for after you get your initial flatfooted attack, or take the Shadowdancer PrC for Hide in Plain Sight, or get a source of (preferably Greater) invisibility.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 10, 2014, 09:35:12 pm
Oh, that. I remembered seeing that in the houserule block in the Brackenreach campaign.

Sure.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 11, 2014, 01:33:42 pm
Update: Everybody's good except for Immaterial (Looking at the changeling, I've decided it's not allowed, partly because I'm turning down Eberron stuff and partly because it's the exact kind of thing you'd be sent to kill without hesitation) and DwArfY, who hasn't actually posted a sheet.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on August 11, 2014, 01:35:56 pm
Dissappointing, but okay. I'll figure out something else.

What tier is Wilder?
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 11, 2014, 01:42:36 pm
/me checks tiers

Not on the list. I'd guess roughly 3 or 4.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on August 11, 2014, 05:56:16 pm
Okay, skill-monkey support bard is in the works.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 12, 2014, 03:18:00 pm
Bump.

PM'd DwArfY, he said he'd have it ready today. Immaterial, how's it coming?
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on August 12, 2014, 03:25:28 pm
Been busy. Tonight.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 12, 2014, 03:33:56 pm
Excellent.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on August 13, 2014, 01:10:01 am
I'm assuming that feat retraining is allowed.

Gerbo Stumbleduck Filchbatter Nackle. (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=14528)

Are we doing the infinite cantrips thing?
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Nerjin on August 13, 2014, 09:52:11 am
I hate gnomes... But anyways, can we NOT do the Infinite Cantrip thing?
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Flying Dice on August 13, 2014, 11:12:04 am
I honestly don't understand the resistance to Pathfinder-style cantrips. It's one of the more significant quality-of-life changes for a reason, as anyone who has ever played a caster in a low-level campaign knows. Not to mention that the Bard cantrip list is pretty short already; the closest they get to combat-useful cantrips are Flare and Daze.

Just speaking personally, but I don't want one or more party members to be standing around doing nothing but increasing the difficulty of encounters because they've already used their handful of spells/don't want to waste them when something more challenging might show up. It's boring and tedious for them to spend every turn saying, "I shoot and miss again with my [insert light ranged weapon here] -- or do nothing because I don't want to make untrained shots into melee," when they could be doing something useful. :|

Besides, it's technically not infinite; a caster can cast a maximum of 14400 cantrips per day, assuming they cast one every six seconds without rest, in which case they're going to have an awfully sore throat if there's a verbal component. Or, of course, using metamagic'd cantrips.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Nerjin on August 13, 2014, 11:19:45 am
I dunno. From what I've heard [again, I'm going off what I've read about] a melee class [say a Fighter] can't do much at higher levels. THe low levels are their time to shine. Then it flips at around level 4 or so. Then Wizards just breeze through encounters. Fighters can't do much. *Shrug* I dunno, I figure that if you choose Wizard or Sorcerer for your starting class you should deal with the consequences of that.

Part of it, also, is my feeling that you should start of as weak as possible and work your way up to a total power house. If you start off as a weak little babby and then become a demigod... Well you'll appreciate it a lot more.

Granted, that's my peferred playstyle anyways. I was just giving my vote.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 13, 2014, 11:36:37 am
Gnome looks good. Enjoy your necrosis.

I, personally, like the infinite cantrips thing, because magicky-type classes suck at the lower levels. Considering that we have a bard as our sole core-magic casting class*, and bards' playstyle is basically beating people up and using the occasional (comparatively) cruddy spell in between ally buffs and using Charisma-based skills, unlimited cantrips won't affect us much. Besides, Prestidigitation and such is great for random stuff like roleplaying your character as being a guy who uses magic to get everyday problems out of the way or as an excuse to have something like 'magic tricks' or 'stage magician' for a Perform skill.

So yes.

*Unless the elusive DwArfY1 sheet is a sorcerer, for which unlimited cantrips basically means spamming Ray of Frost and Acid Blob (which isn't too bad and just makes them marginally more magicky)
-snip-
Have you looked at the 0-level spell lists? They certainly don't make you the demigod of magic at level 1. Unlike 1st level warriors, none of the spells can even one-shot average constitution commoners without spell damage minmaxing.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Nerjin on August 13, 2014, 12:13:26 pm
Well after thinking about it for a while I think I can better articulate what I mean. I'm not AGAINST it per se. I understand that they don't make you 'Unlimited Demigod' or whatever. Where I take a bit of issue with it is that it robs the non-casters of their Screen time. Essentially the martial classes [to my knowledge] start getting eclipsed by casters at around mid-level. So the lowest level is the time for martials to shine.

...

I realize that I've made this argument twice and both times were when I was a fighter... Hm... Sorta seems like I have a vested interest in this.

Eh, but since we do have unlimited cantrips I guess it doesn't matter too much.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 15, 2014, 01:58:57 pm
Screw it, I'm going to put up the IC thread. I'm giving DwArfY until Sunday to put up his sheet, I've been waiting a week by now.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Flying Dice on August 15, 2014, 02:24:25 pm
Nah. The casters you're really going to be worried about at high levels are wizards and CaDzilla. The latter is the one which directly eclipses martial classes by way of being better melee combatants than they are with a buffet of abilities besides. Wizards can at best indirectly compete for that role if they specialize in summoning -- though only some of the Summon Monster # spells are actually worthwhile. What makes wizards broken if optimized is that they trivialize a wide array of problems (Lost in the desert with no water? Need to scale a massive sheer cliff? Fallen off of an airship? Army of mooks to stop? Need to cover hundreds of miles in a race against time? BBEG has mountains of magical defenses? There's a spell for that.), rather than that they eclipse martial classes in terms of direct damage; a properly optimized martial class is always going to do more direct damage than even the best blaster-specced wizard. Which is why wizards are better off as buffers/debuffers, battlefield controllers, and utility. A way that it's commonly put is that the best wizards make their meatshields feel like gods, rather than visibly being a god themselves.

Now, granted, a high-level sorcerer with access to sufficient splatbooks (in particular the various Orb spells) can be a very good blaster. But a bard isn't the sort of thing you worry about in a discussion of primary casters -- and at any rate, a campaign which starts at 1st level is going to take a very, very long time to get to the point where primary casters become overwhelming.

And, as I've said before, even with unlimited use of their cantrips, a direct-damage arcane caster is at best going to be doing 1d3 damage per round, which is measurably less than just about anything else in the game. Even at 1st level they have better options than direct damage. Not to mention that unlimited prestidigitation is one of the most wonderful RP tools there is.  :P
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Nerjin on August 15, 2014, 02:47:35 pm
I don't suppose you could do the same spacing thing you do in Angereon could you? It makes it far easier to read.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 15, 2014, 02:55:05 pm
I don't suppose you could do the same spacing thing you do in Angereon could you? It makes it far easier to read.
Fair enough. One moment.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: TD1 on August 18, 2014, 11:22:12 am
Elderen, the Elven Sorcerer. (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=12195)

Done, at last. Sorry to everyone I held back, took a bit for me to do it right.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Nerjin on August 24, 2014, 04:09:44 pm
So... Yeah... What's goin' on?
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: TD1 on August 24, 2014, 04:14:59 pm
So... Yeah... What's goin' on?
+1
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on August 24, 2014, 04:36:30 pm
This is what happens to Taw's games. He makes new ones instead of updating his old ones.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Nerjin on August 24, 2014, 04:43:49 pm
He's updated Angereon pretty regularly.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: TD1 on August 24, 2014, 04:53:33 pm
Plus, this isn't even an old one yet.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on August 25, 2014, 11:57:41 pm
I am reminded of this. (http://rustyandco.com/comic/6/)
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: TD1 on August 26, 2014, 12:25:14 pm
Dammit Taw.

Start this game.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 26, 2014, 12:28:03 pm
I did.

You haven't actually posted.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on August 26, 2014, 12:29:21 pm
I think he wants a link in the OP.

Cause I do.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 26, 2014, 12:30:35 pm
It is now there.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: PrivateNomad on August 26, 2014, 08:24:42 pm
"Fiendish outlaws have brought terror to our doorstep. The abandoned fortress Eribaran is a half day's travel to the northeast. Go to this place if you seek Libash Ekurdedak, the deep dwarven swordmaster. Beware his evil minions that lurk in the empty halls, such as kobold foot soldiers and his goblin raiding party."
God, that sounds a LOT like Dwarf Fortress.

It was inevitable.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on August 26, 2014, 08:26:47 pm
The summary was intentionally that way, ahaha.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: PrivateNomad on August 26, 2014, 08:28:29 pm
The horror!
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Flying Dice on August 30, 2014, 12:09:37 pm
Could we please get a more complete description of the castle/fortress/whatever, specifically in terms of alternate entrance points for someone who isn't vertically challenged?


On an unrelated note, are we going to assume that my 24-hour passive invocations are always on, or do you want me to explicitly reactivate them every time we timeskip?
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Nerjin on September 11, 2014, 03:09:18 pm
The Butcher (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=29437) has been converted to sheets alpha. The old sheet is no longer valid.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on September 23, 2014, 06:18:49 pm
Taw, this boss is way too difficult for a first level party!
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Flying Dice on September 23, 2014, 08:34:53 pm
I knew I should have taken Baleful Utterance.  ::)
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Nerjin on September 23, 2014, 10:44:08 pm
Squeezing lets Large creatures fit into a medium space. Is likely to let a medium creature into a small space. But I guess our epic adventure of "Get past the door with a single option to get through" is coming to it's culmination!

[[Yes, I am a little frustrated that nothing seems to work so we've been stuck at a stone door for... about a month?]]
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: flame99 on September 23, 2014, 10:47:07 pm
Well then, MNiM, I suppose we don't have much of a choice. Go on in.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on September 24, 2014, 12:50:13 am
Well then, MNiM, I suppose we don't have much of a choice. Go on in.
Me? What?
*reads thread*
ohshitthisismyfaultdoingthatnow
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Dwarmin on September 24, 2014, 10:09:25 am
Hey, add me to the waitlist.

I'm an experienced D&D pro, I'd make sure my team never gets stuck at a door!
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: TD1 on September 24, 2014, 11:46:31 am
He has a dice avatar....

Seems legit. :P
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Nerjin on September 28, 2014, 08:36:53 pm
Wait... Shouldn't my ramming the door been none-lethal damage? Or did I really hit it that hard?
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: PrivateNomad on September 29, 2014, 05:02:50 am
We need to get a fucking battering ram, because this is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Flying Dice on September 29, 2014, 09:42:06 am
We need to get a fucking battering ram rogue, because this is ridiculous.

Heh, a party this size, and we have no trapmonkey. Looks like I might end up being our door-opener until we get a ram or adamantine weapon, too, thanks to my Dex score and/or free infinite door-knockers.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on September 29, 2014, 10:04:48 am
I would have gotten lock picks, but that shit's expensive.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Flying Dice on September 29, 2014, 11:45:46 am
Eh, we can just buy a ram later. Or I can do my 1d3 per round magic lockpick.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on September 29, 2014, 12:17:13 pm
Wait... Shouldn't my ramming the door been none-lethal damage? Or did I really hit it that hard?
Did I not indicate that?

I had intended to indicate that.

Whoops.

I think that "locked stone doors in a party with no skillmonkey" is going into my list of Stuff To Annoy Players With list.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Flying Dice on September 29, 2014, 12:53:56 pm
That only works until the BSF-equivalent gets an adamantine weapon, though.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on September 29, 2014, 02:09:04 pm
It still makes a good obstacle for low-level characters. The thing is more resilient than your average boss monster, and can hurt your players more, to boot.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: flame99 on September 29, 2014, 02:23:33 pm
Plot twist: Stone door is the BBEG
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: PrivateNomad on September 29, 2014, 05:02:01 pm
Plot twist: Stone door is the BBEG
A sentient stone door boss.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Flying Dice on September 29, 2014, 06:06:09 pm
Not even that. The final battle is a series of increasingly imposing doors in a long, slowly-widening hallway. Reverse matryoshka doors, if you will.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on September 29, 2014, 06:12:50 pm
If anybody ever brought this up on 4chan or the like, I think that this would become a minor meme for a small while.

Dungeons of Doom? Pffft. DOORS OF DOOM is where it's at.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: PrivateNomad on September 29, 2014, 06:14:06 pm
If anybody ever brought this up on 4chan or the like, I think that this would become a minor meme for a small while.

Dungeons of Doom? Pffft. DOORS OF DOOM is where it's at.
topkek
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: TD1 on September 30, 2014, 02:47:23 pm
Can someone tell me the major differences in checks and the like (Basic stuff) between 4e and 3.5? I think I might suffer from not knowing :/
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on September 30, 2014, 03:00:36 pm
Powers are not a thing, only spells. Spell-less classes usually sucked, so Wizards made stuff like the Spellthief and Swordsage to remedy that. I recommend one of those types if you ever plan to play a melee character.

Skills are more numerous. I noted that you only have one "knowledge" skill; you remember Arcana and Nature and stuff? Those are subsets of Knowledge.

Hit point totals are, as a rule, lower. Hit Dice are, effectively, used as the general term for "level", especially for things with no class levels like monsters.

Instead of all-or nothing skill training, you assign skill points (determined by your class and Int modifier) to your skills as you see fit, with a cap based on your character level.

I found out a lot of this stuff when I browsed the SRD and made a character for another game; later, I DM'd my own game and was forced to read basically the whole thing when players did stuff I needed rules on. By all means, run your own game if you like hands-on learning.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Flying Dice on September 30, 2014, 03:46:29 pm
To be fair, you can have pretty good campaigns with martial classes without delving into the ToB if you're either playing low-magic or low-leveled. Properly specced CaDs are always going to be broken, but you can easily spec them to not be hyper-optimal, and arcane casters don't come into their own until higher levels. That, and martial classes are always going to be better sources of consistent direct damage than any non-CaDzilla caster, though meleelocks and Mailman-style sorcerers can be really nasty in the right hands.

3.5 is where the whole "Linear fighters, quadratic wizards" concept comes from. People just tend to get hung up on the 20th level paradigm of "Properly specced wizard is GOD, properly specced fighter can hit things really hard until they die or break." while ignoring the 1st level paradigm of "Properly specced wizard contributes fewer actions than they have fingers each day and dies if they are hit by a stiff breeze, properly specced fighter hits things until they die or break." Meanwhile the CaDzilla are doing both, often more safely and better than either, with the exception of high-level wizard shenanigans.

But yeah, what Tawa said about reading the books. It's both fun and educational! ^-^
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Nerjin on September 30, 2014, 09:41:40 pm
The thing is that I, personally, don't like being able to do EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD... Which is why Fighter is one of my favorite classes [alongside support Cleric (Sacha)]... But hey, y'know, I find that 4e is just boring personally if I can comment on that. It's way to complex in some ways and way to dumbed down in others. I want to be a fighter to hit things... I don't want to keep track of six hundred slightly different ways to hit things.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on September 30, 2014, 09:51:09 pm
I think the best example of a 4e screwup was "DURR... CLANG!"

That one rogue skill where you make your opponents attack themselves, intended to be used as redirection-flavored crowd control, but because you can use it on singular enemies and stuff, it's presumably instead employing short-range mind control and forcing the enemies to attack themselves (even though that's often impossible, like a beholder biting itself.)

There's also PHB page 42, the complete removal of Vancian magic, making all the classes basically the same, and all those "fail three saves and die" instead of "save or die" things intended to remove the (already generally low) death rate entirely.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Flying Dice on October 01, 2014, 12:42:28 am
Yeah, I disliked a lot about 4e myself, which is why I never really got into trying it. For all the problems and imbalanced features in 3.5e, it has a hell of a lot of spirit to it. And honestly, I'd rather have a bunch of bizarre, exploitable quirks in a system than a system which is apparently aimed at being as bland as possible by making everyone the same and removing most of the risk.

Granted, 4e is probably a better system to introduce hesitant newbies to the genre (especially if they're more interested in roleplay than rollplay), but 3.5e/Pathfinder is much more dynamic. And, I think, the fundamental strangeness of it is a big part of why it's such a great storytelling tool; you wouldn't get something like the Tale of an Industrious Rogue, Los Tiburon, Sir Bearington, or even stuff like the SCS campaign archives out of a system set up to be as fair, balanced, and easygoing as possible.  :-\
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Harbingerjm on October 01, 2014, 01:02:41 am
Wait... Shouldn't my ramming the door been none-lethal damage? Or did I really hit it that hard?
Did I not indicate that?
I had intended to indicate that.
Whoops.
I think that "locked stone doors in a party with no skillmonkey" is going into my list of Stuff To Annoy Players With list.
They're actually really easy to deal with; even if nobody brings along a crowbar or ram, which someone really should have, if Nerjin had attacked the door with weapons instead of deciding to attempt to shoulder-barge it in he would have cut through it far faster, and without taking damage himself.

I found out a lot of this stuff when I browsed the SRD and made a character for another game; later, I DM'd my own game and was forced to read basically the whole thing when players did stuff I needed rules on. By all means, run your own game if you like hands-on learning.
I would suggest that anyone who hasn't and wants to play/DM sit down and read the Player Handbook; all of it. Then the DMG, also all of it. Also the MiC and the Complete series.

To be fair, you can have pretty good campaigns with martial classes without delving into the ToB if you're either playing low-magic or low-leveled. Properly specced CaDs are always going to be broken, but you can easily spec them to not be hyper-optimal, and arcane casters don't come into their own until higher levels. That, and martial classes are always going to be better sources of consistent direct damage than any non-CaDzilla caster, though meleelocks and Mailman-style sorcerers can be really nasty in the right hands.

3.5 is where the whole "Linear fighters, quadratic wizards" concept comes from. People just tend to get hung up on the 20th level paradigm of "Properly specced wizard is GOD, properly specced fighter can hit things really hard until they die or break." while ignoring the 1st level paradigm of "Properly specced wizard contributes fewer actions than they have fingers each day and dies if they are hit by a stiff breeze, properly specced fighter hits things until they die or break." Meanwhile the CaDzilla are doing both, often more safely and better than either, with the exception of high-level wizard shenanigans.
First, you mean CoDzilla, not CaDzilla. Cleric/Druid multiclass is not exactly my idea of broken. Also, Druid in particular is extremely easy to make OP even by accident.
Regarding low-level arcanes, they are in fact quite capable of overshadowing mundanes; Bards and other non-standard arcanes aside, Wizards and Sorcs are quite capable of ending an encounter per spell, including those from the wands and scrolls that they really should have, while sitting back and plinking away with a crossbow (or bow, for elf) is an entirely valid combat tactic for just about anyone at low levels, and they aren't significantly more fragile than, say, a rogue; quite possibly less, even, since they can afford to put a fair number of points in Con since they're fairly SAD. Also, yes, fighters get all the attacks they could ever want... and far, far more, because you generally don't get that many encounters a day, and 3.5 encounters tend to be short. Casters, meanwhile, have far better ways of bypassing the Action Economy, including Familiars and Summons, which is far, far more valuable.

The thing is that I, personally, don't like being able to do EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD... Which is why Fighter is one of my favorite classes [alongside support Cleric (Sacha)]... But hey, y'know, I find that 4e is just boring personally if I can comment on that. It's way to complex in some ways and way to dumbed down in others. I want to be a fighter to hit things... I don't want to keep track of six hundred slightly different ways to hit things.
An entirely valid viewpoint; the issue is that a base fighter has the opposite approach, being able to do almost nothing, since they have terrible skill points, generally poor int, bad class skills (they don't even have Balance or Tumble!), needs to spend a lot of its WBL on basic boost items rather than the fun stuff, and really, really needs a way to get pounce or some other "full attack after moving" equivalent.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Flying Dice on October 01, 2014, 08:31:45 am
First, you mean CoDzilla, not CaDzilla.
-snip-
/me shrugs.

The implication is more-or-less the same, unless you're an pedant, considering that the term refers to the concept of a heavily broken melee caster, rather than a specific way of building the same. Both clerics and druids can be build like that, hence 'and'. But have fun obsessing over abbreviations. :)

Regarding the action economy and relative efficiency of arcane casters vs. martial classes at low levels. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c) I'm not going to get into another pointless argument with you, bud. Maybe you've got points I might agree with, maybe you don't, but my past experience with you is that you've got your opinions and are unwilling to budge, which defeats the purpose of rational exchange.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Harbingerjm on October 01, 2014, 09:16:07 am
First, you mean CoDzilla, not CaDzilla.
-snip-
/me shrugs.

The implication is more-or-less the same, unless you're an pedant, considering that the term refers to the concept of a heavily broken melee caster, rather than a specific way of building the same. Both clerics and druids can be build like that, hence 'and'. But have fun obsessing over abbreviations. :)
No, see, a CaDzilla is also a thing; a different thing. One that is either a terrifyingly broken Gestalt build combining Wildshape and Cleric buffs (particularly persist metamagic), or a quite terrible multiclass.
Pointing out that it's a pedant not an pedant would be pedantic. Pointing out that the term you are using actually refers to something completely different and not what you apparently think it does is not.

Regarding the action economy and relative efficiency of arcane casters vs. martial classes at low levels. I'm not going to get into another pointless argument with you, bud. Maybe you've got points I might agree with, maybe you don't, but my past experience with you is that you've got your opinions and are unwilling to budge, which defeats the purpose of rational exchange.
Perhaps if any of your exchange was actually rational argument based on some degree of knowledge, there might be some reason for me to change my stance. So far, you've left me extremely unimpressed in every "difference of opinion" we've had, both in the opinions you attempt to argue and in the way you deal with others. Statistically speaking, a single level 1 spell can and usually will utterly trivialise an encounter. There is no opinion to that, it's just fact. Unless you're playing a Blaster Caster, in which case Quadratic Wizard doesn't apply either.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Nerjin on October 01, 2014, 09:25:17 am
Please stop.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on October 01, 2014, 12:13:06 pm
Ditto.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Flying Dice on October 01, 2014, 12:57:09 pm
Don't worry, I've had him on ignore for a while. Honestly should have resisted the temptation to open the last one, and I will this time.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: TD1 on October 01, 2014, 01:21:26 pm
On a semi-related topic,  I tried to ignore Tuypo and for the life of me couldn't figure it out. How do you do it?
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Flying Dice on October 01, 2014, 01:37:23 pm
On a semi-related topic,  I tried to ignore Tuypo and for the life of me couldn't figure it out. How do you do it?
Profile -> Buddies/Ignore List (the last link on the left) -> Edit Ignore List -> Add member.

TBH I've hardly used it, though, except for blocking Toadburger alts.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: TealNinja on October 01, 2014, 07:00:00 pm
On a semi-related topic,  I tried to ignore Tuypo and for the life of me couldn't figure it out. How do you do it?
Profile -> Buddies/Ignore List (the last link on the left) -> Edit Ignore List -> Add member.

TBH I've hardly used it, though, except for blocking Toadburger alts.
Harb posted that on my behalf, as he is a great deal more experienced with D&D.  I knew that misinformation was being spread around, but as I'm not familiar enough with the material to clarify what and why, I asked him to do it.  I'd thank you not to give him crap when he was doing a favour for me.

I knew, and know, that the Wizard outclasses the Fighter at level 1.  With most Wizards, they are fully capable of dealing with encounters by themselves, except against large numbers of weak monsters (although, arguably they are still more equipped for dealing with them than Fighters, given crits against Fighters and Grease for Wizards, not to mention if things go bad, Wizard can cast Obscuring Mist and Expeditious Retreat, and a Fighter just dies.)
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Nerjin on October 01, 2014, 07:48:34 pm
Yes, but, protip: People don't like it when you are actively hostile towards them. I like Harbinger [even though I think he dislikes me... For good reason I'll admit.] but he does seem to have a penchant for saying the exact right thing to make other people angry.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: TealNinja on October 01, 2014, 08:05:55 pm
He was actually entirely civil with his first post here.  If you reread it, it wasn't intended to anger anybody.  Then Dice said, basically, "semantics don't matter" when, really, they do if you're looking to get better at D&D.  This is especially a problem here, where a lot of people don't know many of the rules and costs, and those who do ask for power upgrades from DMs who don't know any better.  We need to understand what these problems are and why they exist, and after that we can work to "solve" them.  Not that the problem of Tier 1's can actually be "solved," but we can somewhat mitigate their power.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Nerjin on October 01, 2014, 08:08:43 pm
Some people get annoyed when you correct them needlessly. Can we please just drop all of this please? Issue has been solved. Questions were answered. Let's just leave it at that.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Flying Dice on October 01, 2014, 11:59:15 pm
Actually, there are a couple reasons:

1. Stating opinions as incontrovertible facts. This is the sort of thing where you say "I disagree," rather than "You are wrong, stop pretending you know what you're talking about." This isn't a peer-reviewed study supported by empirical research, it's people with different opinions.

2. He and I were already on bad terms because of another time where he didn't agree with me and started an argument in pretty much the exact same way, minus restraint from me. It's the one where either you or him tried to report me because I didn't roll over and play dead, if I recall.

3. He's not active in the campaign. It feels quite heavily like he's going out of his way to poke his nose into places just to try to get one over on people and "prove" how superior he is -- by haranguing people over differences of opinion and insubstantial tidbits.

There are ways to be a hostile jerk without blatantly insulting people, you realize? Worse, instead of just dropping it, he calls you up to tag in for him and continue the argument by defending him and deliberately misquoting people? The problem is quite evident, I think. I'm not the DM for this campaign, but I jolly well will report you or him if you try to start more arguments, okay? I'm not going to be responding to you any more either. :)
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: TealNinja on October 02, 2014, 01:35:49 am
Actually, there are a couple reasons:

1. Stating opinions as incontrovertible facts. This is the sort of thing where you say "I disagree," rather than "You are wrong, stop pretending you know what you're talking about." This isn't a peer-reviewed study supported by empirical research, it's people with different opinions.

2. He and I were already on bad terms because of another time where he didn't agree with me and started an argument in pretty much the exact same way, minus restraint from me. It's the one where either you or him tried to report me because I didn't roll over and play dead, if I recall.

3. He's not active in the campaign. It feels quite heavily like he's going out of his way to poke his nose into places just to try to get one over on people and "prove" how superior he is -- by haranguing people over differences of opinion and insubstantial tidbits.

There are ways to be a hostile jerk without blatantly insulting people, you realize? Worse, instead of just dropping it, he calls you up to tag in for him and continue the argument by defending him and deliberately misquoting people? The problem is quite evident, I think. I'm not the DM for this campaign, but I jolly well will report you or him if you try to start more arguments, okay? I'm not going to be responding to you any more either. :)

What he's saying is incontrovertible "fact" (as fact as it can be).  It's the entire reason for the Tier list; the Wizard is stronger than the Fighter at all levels.  It is a peer-reviewed study supported by empirical research.  People have sat down and looked at the options available to the Wizard versus the Fighter, and have concluded the Fighter is inferior.  It wasn't only Harb who did this, it was a great number of people over a long period of time.  This isn't to say that the Wizard is better than the Fighter.  The Fighter can certainly be the best choice for circumstances.  Those circumstances just assume that the party doesn't want a Tier 1.  It doesn't want someone to be super strong in every situation.  This is generally most true when the entire party is around the same Tier.

You are also giving crap to Harb for "starting" something when I explicitly asked him to come in for me as he's more experienced with D&D than me.  I was the one with the problem of people saying that the Fighter was better than the Wizard at level 1.  This wasn't true for what was being argued, and it certainly wasn't true by the example given.  You never offered any kind of proof that the Fighter was better than the Wizard, only stated it, and when challenged, you insulted him (for prior aggression) and refused to actually enter into a discussion with him whilst writing him off.

When I enter in to defend his integrity, you assault my integrity (again, for prior aggression in which you were the primary offender).  Yes, Harb is a jerk.  We get that.  It's not that difficult to see past him being a jerk and actually get along with him.  I will also not stand here and let you rail on other people.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on October 02, 2014, 06:10:10 am
Please stop.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Toady One on October 02, 2014, 10:56:33 am
The OP has asked a couple of times for the current discussion to stop, and it's still going on.  I don't want another post about it, assuming the thread has somewhere to go (I have no idea, but the OP can re-rerail it as necessary).
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Flying Dice on October 02, 2014, 02:28:20 pm
I'm going to laugh so hard if we spend another week or so working our way through a succession of doors, only to emerge out of the other side of the mountain.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on October 02, 2014, 02:41:19 pm
The OP has asked a couple of times for the current discussion to stop, and it's still going on.  I don't want another post about it, assuming the thread has somewhere to go (I have no idea, but the OP can re-rerail it as necessary).
Thanks, T. On that note:
I'm going to laugh so hard if we spend another week or so working our way through a succession of doors, only to emerge out of the other side of the mountain.
The dungeon generator's "deathtrap" setting produces a lot of doors.

We should illustrate this.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Nerjin on October 04, 2014, 12:48:10 pm
So.. Shouldn't we get XP for the Troglodite thing? We defeated the encounter.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on October 04, 2014, 01:03:04 pm
That wasn't an encounter, really.

You just kinda negotiated your way out of a hypothetical one-sided fight.

Maybe like ten? He was in no mood to fight you, anyway.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Nerjin on October 04, 2014, 01:19:52 pm
Oh... Wait, then why was he there? I didn't read the spoilered stuff because The Butcher wouldn't know that stuff but... Like... Was it at least explained?
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on October 04, 2014, 01:24:45 pm
I rolled randomly for a random encounter off of my generator's monster list and it gave me him. Passive diplomacy checks just kinda negated any potential combat.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Nerjin on October 04, 2014, 01:45:43 pm
That... I'm pretty sure that doesn't matter. We defeated the encounter regardless of it not being combat. It was originally designed to be combat. But I guess it's up to you.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on October 04, 2014, 01:50:25 pm
Hmmkay. Regular xp then, though, not the 1.5x PbP-accelerated xp.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Harbingerjm on October 04, 2014, 02:01:43 pm
Hmmkay. Regular xp then, though, not the 1.5x PbP-accelerated xp.
A word of caution: Giving reduced exp for encounters solved through non-combat means can have undesirable effects.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Nerjin on October 20, 2014, 08:43:30 pm
"Waits for the right moment to strike"

No. Waits for the ability to do anything other than one action a turn.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Flying Dice on October 20, 2014, 10:09:00 pm
Well then.

Hmmkay. Regular xp then, though, not the 1.5x PbP-accelerated xp.
A word of caution: Giving reduced exp for encounters solved through non-combat means can have undesirable effects.
Potentially including Exalted-style shenanigans where, upon finding ourselves in a nasty social combat situation, we resolve it by turning it into actual combat.

/missingthepoint
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on October 20, 2014, 10:26:23 pm
That is quite likely the best series of rolls I have ever seen. 20, confirmed critical, instant death; successful hit, max damage, death.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Nerjin on October 20, 2014, 10:31:00 pm
You still haven't awarded the reduced xp for the Trog. Well... You did, but that was 10xp. You stated we'd get more but never stated what it was.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Tawa on October 20, 2014, 10:43:23 pm
Yes I did.

Read a few replies back.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Nerjin on October 20, 2014, 10:51:58 pm
That wasn't an encounter, really.

You just kinda negotiated your way out of a hypothetical one-sided fight.

Maybe like ten? He was in no mood to fight you, anyway.

I rolled randomly for a random encounter off of my generator's monster list and it gave me him. Passive diplomacy checks just kinda negated any potential combat.

That... I'm pretty sure that doesn't matter. We defeated the encounter regardless of it not being combat. It was originally designed to be combat. But I guess it's up to you.

Hmmkay. Regular xp then, though, not the 1.5x PbP-accelerated xp.

Yes I did.

Read a few replies back.

In chronological order. In short: You just said 10xp and then said you'd increase it, but never did.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Flying Dice on October 20, 2014, 11:26:29 pm
A single troglodyte is CR1. For a party of six 1st level PCs, XP for the encounter would be 50xp each.

That said, I'm about 95% certain that Tawa actually already told us that we got xp back when it happened. Yep:

((Also, all players earn 50 xp from the troglodyte thing earlier.))
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf
Post by: Nerjin on October 20, 2014, 11:43:07 pm
Ah, musta missed that.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: SUMMON WAITLISTERS
Post by: Tawa on November 19, 2014, 06:25:59 pm
I have not forgotten about this. Blame TVTropes.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: SUMMON WAITLISTERS
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on November 19, 2014, 10:16:02 pm
I'm going AFK for a week. Sorry. Please auto me with castings of Daze, shooting people and doing the right things with the plot relevant stuff.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: SUMMON WAITLISTERS
Post by: Nerjin on November 19, 2014, 11:40:53 pm
Am I able to wait-list if I'm already in the game? Like, just have a backup on standby just in case no other wait-listers show?
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: SUMMON WAITLISTERS
Post by: Dwarmin on November 20, 2014, 09:22:59 am
*whistle*

...Huh, anything happening here? Did you guys get past the door? I hope you mean waitlisters as in plural. :P

www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=458647

Hiyah!

Oh yeah, question, with the rules in the OP do we have to take the prof feats for exotic weapons, or are our characters assumed to know how to use their chosen weapons in-game?
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: SUMMON WAITLISTERS
Post by: Tawa on November 21, 2014, 09:28:24 pm
Am I able to wait-list if I'm already in the game? Like, just have a backup on standby just in case no other wait-listers show?
I will let you have a back-up, but I won't consider it a true waitlist.
*whistle*

...Huh, anything happening here? Did you guys get past the door? I hope you mean waitlisters as in plural. :P

www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=458647

Hiyah!

Oh yeah, question, with the rules in the OP do we have to take the prof feats for exotic weapons, or are our characters assumed to know how to use their chosen weapons in-game?
Looks good enough, I guess. I'll give you 1d4 weeks to train for every level above 1 you start at, so depending on circumstances in this dungeon, you may or may not manage to get the exotic weapon proficiency without a feat.

I'll update at some point soon.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: SUMMON WAITLISTERS
Post by: Dwarmin on November 22, 2014, 02:22:12 pm
Looks good enough, I guess. I'll give you 1d4 weeks to train for every level above 1 you start at, so depending on circumstances in this dungeon, you may or may not manage to get the exotic weapon proficiency without a feat.

That weapons broken anyway. :P Checked again and it's homebrew...meh.

I can't find any other stats for a ninjato for 3.5, so I'll downgrade it a shortsword, tho I might use another weapon depending on how well my training goes.

Fixing that, rdy for update...
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: SUMMON WAITLISTERS
Post by: Nerjin on November 22, 2014, 04:45:38 pm
Wakazashi's are Masterwork Short Swords. Katanas are Masterwork Bastard Swords. Would a Ninjato be a Masterwork Long Sword?
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: SUMMON WAITLISTERS
Post by: Flying Dice on November 22, 2014, 06:16:07 pm
It'd hardly be a stretch, considering the vast quantity of forms encompassed by the terms "Short Sword" and "Long Sword" even if you stick to purely psuedo-European weapons.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: SUMMON WAITLISTERS
Post by: Tawa on December 30, 2014, 01:18:52 am
I have thought about this and realized something.

My first 3.5 campaign was shut down because of the following factors:
-The setting was terrible RNG soup.
-The point of it was that a cheap plot dispenser disguised as an NPC sent the PCs out into (also RNG-made) dungeons over and over to find MacGuffins.
-One of my players dropped out halfway through a dungeon.

Sounds eerily familiar, doesn't it?

So, I have made 3 executive decisions:

1) I will update this. I have not forgotten.
2) I'm going to stop leaving everything at the mercy of the RNG, because, heck, RNG'd everything is terrible.
3) I will likely rename everything and completely retcon the whole adventurers-working-for-lord thing in favor of traditional D&D adventurer stuff, the latter because this is (as described above) a repetitive quest dispenser; the former because the current RNG-stew setting feels like it came out of a machine. Wait, actually, it did. I used DF to generate it.

I'm going to update tomorrow, so HOLD ONTO YOUR HATS
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: SUMMON WAITLISTERS
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on December 30, 2014, 01:31:42 am
Tawarochir beats me to updating. I have brought great dishonor upon myself.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: SUMMON WAITLISTERS
Post by: Flying Dice on December 30, 2014, 12:38:04 pm
Don't be afraid to use generators to spark ideas, though. But yes, they're not good when it comes to creating a plot if you don't extrapolate and worldbuild beyond the numbers.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: SUMMON WAITLISTERS
Post by: Nerjin on December 30, 2014, 02:50:40 pm
Tawarochir beats me to updating. I have brought great dishonor upon myself.

That burning you feel? It is shame.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: SUMMON WAITLISTERS
Post by: TD1 on December 30, 2014, 02:56:11 pm
Tawarochir beats me to updating. I have brought great dishonor upon myself.

That burning you feel? It is shame.

That liquid on your cheeks? Tears.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: SUMMON WAITLISTERS
Post by: Tawa on January 06, 2015, 04:50:37 pm
Somebody should call the Bee Gees, because this is stayin' alive.

/pun
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: SUMMON WAITLISTERS
Post by: PrivateNomad on January 06, 2015, 04:51:15 pm
This is still alive?
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: SUMMON WAITLISTERS
Post by: Flying Dice on January 06, 2015, 05:21:59 pm
Yep.

By the by, we might want to move out into the room.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: SUMMON WAITLISTERS
Post by: Flying Dice on January 14, 2015, 06:56:48 pm
Dwarves don't have light sensitivity, and Light is basically a magical torch.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: Tawa on January 14, 2015, 08:37:53 pm
Yeah... care to try something else, DwArfY? Top marks on creativity, though.

Word to the wise: you might want to pick up Magic Missile if you're going blaster--if you want to go full-on Mailman-style, you should probably get the Orb spells, too. Burning Hands has the problem that in order to use it you have to expose yourself.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: Flying Dice on January 14, 2015, 09:15:03 pm
Yeah... care to try something else, DwArfY? Top marks on creativity, though.

Word to the wise: you might want to pick up Magic Missile if you're going blaster--if you want to go full-on Mailman-style, you should probably get the Orb spells, too. Burning Hands has the problem that in order to use it you have to expose yourself.
I think I'd automatically steer clear of any 'magic' which includes "expose yourself" in a description of the casting.


e:
Daze! Anyone! Don't care!
Time to see how much of a troll DM Tawa is.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: Nerjin on January 14, 2015, 10:49:26 pm
Yeah... care to try something else, DwArfY? Top marks on creativity, though.

Word to the wise: you might want to pick up Magic Missile if you're going blaster--if you want to go full-on Mailman-style, you should probably get the Orb spells, too. Burning Hands has the problem that in order to use it you have to expose yourself.
I think I'd automatically steer clear of any 'magic' which includes "expose yourself" in a description of the casting.

I dunno. Daze seems to work pretty well. So it's not like all magic with the EY tag is bad. Just a majority of it. Fireball tends to get... A bit risky.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: TD1 on January 15, 2015, 08:40:18 am
Hrmmm.

Fine, eh, I'll think of something else.

Edit: So, if I use color spray, will it effect my buddies? Because it's obviously based on sight, and if the ball of light is behind them they can't see it?

Or is it anything in that 15 ft blast, even those who can't see it?
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: Flying Dice on January 15, 2015, 10:14:25 am
"Each creature within this cone..."
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: TD1 on January 15, 2015, 10:58:02 am
Alright, alright, don't judge :P

Grasping straws is all.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: Flying Dice on January 15, 2015, 07:47:13 pm
Heh, this is exactly why I suggested moving out into the room earlier. Well, except for Gaun, because spidahwaaaahlk bitches.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: Nerjin on January 21, 2015, 10:41:07 pm
I... Um... Don't wanna seem picky but could I know my attack rolls and damage rolls in the future? Being a fighter I don't have much else.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: Tawa on January 21, 2015, 10:43:31 pm
Oh, sure. Sorry about that.

Note to self: 1-tile-wide corridors plus annoyingly small rooms=terrible idea.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: Tawa on January 28, 2015, 05:56:52 pm
Oh ho, I see where you're getting this whole idea of "a d4 hit-dice character can survive more than one attack", DwArfY. Cracking open my old 4th Ed handbook reminds me that 4th edition mages start with 20+ hit points while weapon damage dice get stepped up one notch at most.

Also sorry for the terrible injuries.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: Nerjin on January 28, 2015, 06:54:36 pm
That's fine. We have other tanks and I was at zero health [basically] anyways. It happens. The party might be fine.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: Tawa on January 28, 2015, 08:50:54 pm
We don't have other tanks. We have you, a psion, a warlock, a sorcerer, a bard, and the ranger from the guy who dropped out.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: Nerjin on January 28, 2015, 08:51:48 pm
I know, but without any healing abilities and with me going down someone's gotta step up. or they could flee.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: Tawa on January 28, 2015, 08:56:58 pm
I think it might be time for Laughing Wolf to step in and start assassinating dorfs.

Dwarmin?

Also, now's the time if ever for DwArfY to step in and use Color Spray. When it's his turn, that is.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: Nerjin on January 28, 2015, 09:04:18 pm
DUDE!!! Not cool. Let us figure it out. A puzzle isn't fun if the puzzle makers give you the answer.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: Tawa on January 28, 2015, 09:07:55 pm
That wasn't a puzzle, it was a cheap shot by the RNG. :|
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: Nerjin on January 28, 2015, 09:12:18 pm
Let us win or lose on our own merits. If we don't abide by the dice we might as well just play freeform.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: Tawa on January 28, 2015, 09:13:25 pm
Agh. Fine, do the encounter I wrote for six people using five.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: Nerjin on January 28, 2015, 09:14:13 pm
We can always run. It's part of the lifestyle.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: Tawa on January 28, 2015, 09:14:43 pm
You can't. :V
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: Nerjin on January 28, 2015, 09:30:31 pm
No, I can't. But the party can go on. I'll just reroll. Assuming no one else is in the waitlist.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: Tawa on January 28, 2015, 09:40:31 pm
There's three other people in the waitlist.

I'll just play flameboy's character for him.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: Nerjin on January 28, 2015, 09:51:58 pm
Two. Froggy hasn't confirmed according to the OP if I'm reading it right.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: Flying Dice on January 31, 2015, 07:16:28 pm
Initiative should be on Quim now. And hey, Gaun killed one of the crossbowdorfs and scared off another. But, uh, I think that the Butcher is going to need some dragging assistance.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: Tawa on January 31, 2015, 07:17:56 pm
Initiative should be on Quim now.
Whoops.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: Tawa on February 08, 2015, 04:25:36 pm
PN, you do realize that you have a crossbow, right?
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: Flying Dice on February 10, 2015, 06:47:18 pm
Bacon status = saved.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: Tawa on February 10, 2015, 08:13:39 pm
Alright, so. Here's the thing.

Remember this?
3) I will likely rename everything and completely retcon the whole adventurers-working-for-lord thing in favor of traditional D&D adventurer stuff, the latter because this is (as described above) a repetitive quest dispenser; the former because the current RNG-stew setting feels like it came out of a machine. Wait, actually, it did. I used DF to generate it.
I've done more than that. There's a completely different world now, because RNGland sucked. And there's a coherent plot that isn't a string of loosely connected dungeon crawls.

There's one thing I can't decide, though--do you guys want free XP and cash for Level 2 while I retcon everything, or do you want to trudge through more meaningless fights for it? I'd assume the former, but just in case...
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on February 10, 2015, 08:18:36 pm
If you can explain how we got money and XP despite having failed the mission, 1, please.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: Tawa on February 10, 2015, 08:20:27 pm
Eheheheh. The mission was to kill the bandits' leader, if you remember correctly.

I also don't want to have to deal with the terrible setting and overly cramped dungeon anymore.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on February 10, 2015, 08:26:47 pm
Did we do that? I thought he ran away.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: Tawa on February 10, 2015, 08:41:39 pm
Gaun blew his head off while he was running away.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: Flying Dice on February 10, 2015, 09:08:40 pm
Yep. That's twice now. Inside her head she's going all "BOOM HEADSHOT!"

But yeah, we iced the leader and got out, so I'm in favor of being level 2 without random grind.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: Nerjin on February 10, 2015, 09:12:49 pm
That would be nice. Being something other than straight fighter would likely be helpful. For example: Levelling in Warblade.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on February 10, 2015, 09:37:34 pm
I can't wait to get my hands on a first level spell or two. Because my BAB is bad, and Daze is only so effective. Should have gone Cleric. This party could really use some healing.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: Tawa on February 10, 2015, 09:43:09 pm
You couldn't have as per ancient houserules.
-Tier 1 classes are banned unless otherwise noted. Meaning no wizards. Also meaning that the only wizards are basically old guys locked up in towers who can't be bothered to come out into the world and are only good if you need a 9th level spell cast or something.
-Tier 2 classes are only available under the condition that you sacrifice a single point modifier in a skill of your choice. So sorcerers and psions are weaker in one skill of their choice, likely Strength.
-Clerics are OK, but we are using the Spontaneous Divine Casters (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/spontaneousDivineCasters.htm) variant from Unearthed Arcana for them and the Bard's spells per day table.
-Druids are cool if you use the Bard's spells per day table. They don't have to use the Spontaneous Casters rule.
I was nuts about "fixing" 3.5 back in the day.

...Man. I should update those during the intermission.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: Tawa on March 07, 2015, 08:40:50 pm
Right. Refluffing is almost done, and the new map is made. Got rid of my wrath-of-the-RNG section in the OP and made the copypasta full copypasta instead of selective copypasta.

Almost there.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC: ONWARD
Post by: Flying Dice on March 07, 2015, 09:00:56 pm
Good to hear.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC--Great Revival
Post by: Tawa on March 18, 2015, 03:47:01 pm
It's back and better than ever. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XYTgyQaJTE)

Please fix any backstories that involve now-nonexistant locations. If anybody asks, the quest you did before happened, but none of you remember why you went on it in the first place. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OrwellianRetcon)

The official explanation as to why all of you know each other is that after that thing you don't remember why you did, you decided (for personal reasons) the thrill of adventure was too good to give up and decided to continue adventuring.

Additionally, even though the setting seems kind of generic, I assure you that there is a plot this time and not anything like the RNG-soup that had happened before.

Once you all are ready, PART II will begin.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC--Great Revival
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on March 18, 2015, 04:01:09 pm
I'm ready.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC--Great Revival
Post by: Flying Dice on March 18, 2015, 04:08:19 pm
Ready.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC--Great Revival
Post by: Nerjin on March 18, 2015, 07:56:23 pm
Mine should be fine.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC--Great Revival
Post by: Tawa on March 26, 2015, 07:51:02 pm
You other three! You still there?
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC--Great Revival
Post by: TD1 on March 28, 2015, 03:22:22 pm
Yea.
Mine should be fine. And if it isn't, I'll change it soon. Don't have much computer access.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC--Great Revival
Post by: Tawa on March 28, 2015, 03:26:57 pm
Right, that leaves PrivateNomad and Dwarmin.
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC--Great Revival
Post by: Dwarmin on April 04, 2015, 08:13:27 am
Lol, I put my notify mark on the game thread...

Not the OOC thread. :P

I suppose I'm still in, tho I was never really in to begin with...
Title: Re: Dungeons and Dragons 3.5: The Order of the Silver Wolf OOC--Great Revival
Post by: Tawa on April 04, 2015, 10:14:33 am
Heh, sorry about that. :/