Post by: RedWarrior0 on August 06, 2013, 12:12:22 pm
Be forewarned: There are spoilers within!
The first comic. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html)
The latest comic. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/ootslatest.html)
Thread guidelines, aside from forum rules:
1. Please put stuff from Start of Darkness or On the Origin of PCs in spoiler tags. Please.
2. Do not put the actual comic in this thread. Rich doesn't like it, plus if you hotlink it uses the GITP server's bandwidth.
3. There are no other guidelines yet, but there may be in the future.
Note that I will occasionally/often be late on updating the title/OP.
Post by: quinnr on August 06, 2013, 12:27:19 pm
Can someone with more knowledge of DnD than me, explain why the Cure Moderate Wounds that Durkon cast (or whatever a priest does? do they cast things?) hurt Roy in that latest panel (908)?
Post by: andrea on August 06, 2013, 12:34:09 pm
Durkon tried to turn one of his remaining spells into a cure spell, but due ... changed perspective on life, he mistakenly used an inflict wounds spell.
Another possible explanation is that he may not be Evil, but since he is animated by negative energy he still can only cast negative energy spells in that way.
edit: I am no expert myself, so the above may not be clear. Bare bones: he cast an inflict wounds spell, due to being a vampire.
Post by: quinnr on August 06, 2013, 12:41:25 pm
As a rule, Good aligned clerics can turn one of their prepared spells into a cure wounds spell, while Evil aligned clerics can do the same but get an inflict wounds spell.
Durkon tried to turn one of his remaining spells into a cure spell, but due ... changed perspective on life, he mistakenly used an inflict wounds spell.
Another possible explanation is that he may not be Evil, but since he is animated by negative energy he still can only cast negative energy spells in that way.
edit: I am no expert myself, so the above may not be clear. Bare bones: he cast an inflict wounds spell, due to being a vampire.
Ah, okay, that makes sense. Thanks!
Post by: freeformschooler on August 06, 2013, 12:42:31 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on August 06, 2013, 12:58:31 pm
Spoiler: Book 1: Dungeon Crawlin' Fools (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Book 2: No Cure for the Paladin Blues (click to show/hide)
Post by: Pnx on August 06, 2013, 01:02:52 pm
Post by: Sensei on August 06, 2013, 09:59:50 pm
Also, yaaaay this is updating again. Well, it has for a while, but man did it take a long time for Rich to get his hand fixed.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on August 08, 2013, 05:55:46 pm
Post by: FuzzyZergling on August 08, 2013, 06:24:45 pm
*Posting to watch*
Post by: Xantalos on August 08, 2013, 07:08:10 pm
Ooh, an OotS thread.
*Posting to watch*
Post by: OREOSOME on August 08, 2013, 07:10:20 pm
Post by: quinnr on August 08, 2013, 07:27:37 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 08, 2013, 08:08:59 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 08, 2013, 08:21:47 pm
Post by: Sensei on August 09, 2013, 03:23:08 am
Post by: GlyphGryph on August 09, 2013, 10:35:11 am
Post by: Sensei on August 09, 2013, 11:44:26 am
Post by: Pnx on August 09, 2013, 11:48:39 am
When was it prophesied that Durkon would cause destruction upon returning home? Because I can't remember that part...It was in the Origin of the PC's. An oracle predicts to the high priest that Durkon will bring great destruction when he returns home. The priest responds by sending him off to human lands and forbids him to return before he sends for him, figuring that way he can be sure Durkon will never return.
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 09, 2013, 11:51:56 am
When was it prophesied that Durkon would cause destruction upon returning home? Because I can't remember that part...The high priest of Thor, Hurak was the one to send Durkon on his mission to learn from the humans and return home to act as a cultural instructor. The real reason however was that Hurak had learned of the prophecy that Durkon would bring death and destruction to his home when he next returned, and so intended for Durkon to never return. I posted it in the WTF thread some time, but I can't find it right now.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on August 09, 2013, 11:54:30 am
When was it prophesied that Durkon would cause destruction upon returning home? Because I can't remember that part...The prophecy, in On the Origins of PCs, was
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
edit: Ninja'd
Post by: Karlito on August 09, 2013, 04:50:42 pm
When was it prophesied that Durkon would cause destruction upon returning home? Because I can't remember that part...It was in the Origin of the PC's. An oracle predicts to the high priest that Durkon will bring great destruction when he returns home. The priest responds by sending him off to human lands and forbids him to return before he sends for him, figuring that way he can be sure Durkon will never return.
It seems to me that the best way to go about it would have been to make sure he never leaves, and thus never has to return. Or just kill him, I guess, but a prophecy isn't really a prophecy unless it's somehow ironically self-fulfilling.
Post by: Pnx on August 09, 2013, 04:56:55 pm
But I agree, actually telling him that there's a prophecy tying him returning to them with death and destruction seems like it would have worked out better.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 09, 2013, 06:52:25 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 09, 2013, 07:40:51 pm
Unless they were afraid that telling the Dwarf-Among-Dwarfs that he was going to bring destruction to his people would cause him to snap in such a way that would bring destruction to his people.Even then, the Durkon they would be telling this could be a different Durkon in the future. Initially Durkon's sense of duty was so strong [and still seems so] that he would have willfully exiled himself to protect the Fortress, but as Malack put it people change so much that the older one is essentially dead. To risk the safety of your entire people on the willpower of one Dwarf is risky at best. Additionally, killing Durkon would never have come to anyone's minds. The Dwarves there are good people, they wouldn't kill an innocent to save the innocent, at least where an alternative is available.
Post by: Scoops Novel on August 09, 2013, 07:59:00 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on August 10, 2013, 12:52:46 am
Post by: Scoops Novel on August 10, 2013, 09:23:20 am
Post by: Akura on August 10, 2013, 12:06:34 pm
Post by: Pnx on August 10, 2013, 12:14:08 pm
Or failing that they were under over night, and the Linear guild stopped to rest for a while (or spent a good long time stuck in the lotus eater trap themselves).
Post by: Bauglir on August 10, 2013, 12:22:30 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 10, 2013, 12:27:55 pm
Well the linear guild still hadn't found the central chamber, so it was probably only something like three or four hours tops.It's more likely the former than the latter, Malack didn't seem affected at all. And if Nale's anyting to go by, they could even have just been stuck there for little more than a single hour.
Or failing that they were under over night, and the Linear guild stopped to rest for a while (or spent a good long time stuck in the lotus eater trap themselves).
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 10, 2013, 12:52:37 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 10, 2013, 01:33:35 pm
Post by: Akura on August 12, 2013, 11:00:59 am
Post by: Frumple on August 12, 2013, 12:44:42 pm
Did... did we know about the
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: RedWarrior0 on August 12, 2013, 12:49:05 pm
Well. Nale's dad just got major props from me.We knew they had dinosaurs, for sure.
Did... did we know about thebefore? I can't recall.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
New comic, btw.
Post by: Akura on August 12, 2013, 12:57:04 pm
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 12, 2013, 01:03:04 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 12, 2013, 01:17:42 pm
Or maybe that kind of speculation is all wrong and next strip Tarquin will disintegrate Nale. Certainly the kind of dramatic twist that would make him legendary.
Post by: Pnx on August 12, 2013, 01:31:36 pm
I have an inkling that Tarquin kind of expected Malak's demise.I think he probably planned for the eventuality, I mean he knew that they both wanted to kill each other, so it was really pretty likely that one would kill the other, so it seems like Tarquin would hedge his bets and see how it turned out.
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 12, 2013, 01:32:13 pm
I think it was a combination of "letting him kill Malak" and "graduation exam".
Post by: andrea on August 12, 2013, 02:09:47 pm
On the other hand, I believe that he really considered malack a friend.
basically, he would have liked both of them alive, but since he knew they both wanted to kill each other, he removed himself from the situation, to avoid taking sides in such a conflict.
But I guess we will know more next strip.
Post by: Doomblade187 on August 12, 2013, 05:58:26 pm
I think he just didn't want to see his son dead. Despite everything, he still cares about him.Though I don't think he seems too happy with Nale right now.
On the other hand, I believe that he really considered malack a friend.
basically, he would have liked both of them alive, but since he knew they both wanted to kill each other, he removed himself from the situation, to avoid taking sides in such a conflict.
But I guess we will know more next strip.
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 13, 2013, 02:47:47 am
Though I don't think he seems too happy with Nale right now.It seems to be a more "Son you are stupid" or "Son I am disappoint" instead of "Son I will kill you." I'd be surprised Tarquin didn't chide Nale for not having a better plan or for allowing Durkon to kill the wizard.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Sheb on August 14, 2013, 07:46:38 am
Post by: Akura on August 15, 2013, 11:32:21 am
I think he just didn't want to see his son dead. Despite everything, he still cares about him.Another idea is that Tarquin wants Nale to inherit the empire he built. Before killing Durkon, Malack said he was the one who would rule the empire, due to the fact that he'll easily outlive(so to speak) his compatriots in the conspiracy.
On the other hand, I believe that he really considered malack a friend.
basically, he would have liked both of them alive, but since he knew they both wanted to kill each other, he removed himself from the situation, to avoid taking sides in such a conflict.
But I guess we will know more next strip.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on August 15, 2013, 11:50:48 am
Post by: Akura on August 16, 2013, 12:20:53 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on August 16, 2013, 12:24:30 pm
Post by: Xantalos on August 16, 2013, 02:35:48 pm
Yeah, I noticed that the first time.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on August 16, 2013, 10:36:17 pm
Post by: Sheb on August 17, 2013, 04:56:25 am
Post by: RedWarrior0 on August 17, 2013, 11:07:25 pm
Post by: Oliolli on August 18, 2013, 10:33:05 am
Post by: RedWarrior0 on August 19, 2013, 09:41:44 am
Gotta say, I didn't really expect that.
Post by: Scoops Novel on August 19, 2013, 12:35:38 pm
Post by: Pnx on August 19, 2013, 12:55:42 pm
Why did Nale think they could pull it off? He seems to seesaw between idiocy and cunning, and an likely better trained if not resourced army hasn't out-muscled Xykon once.Because he's arrogant, short sighted, and severely lacking in self-awareness. It's hardly the only dumb move he's ever made. Fact is the guy is usually his own foil, it's what makes him, him.
Post by: Bauglir on August 19, 2013, 01:21:50 pm
Post by: Scoops Novel on August 19, 2013, 01:48:56 pm
Post by: Glowcat on August 21, 2013, 01:13:11 am
Well at least he'll be getting character development.
*reads 913*
I guess you could say that.
(update)
Post by: Xantalos on August 21, 2013, 01:16:36 am
He
He
That was awesome.
Post by: i2amroy on August 21, 2013, 01:22:28 am
Post by: Oliolli on August 21, 2013, 01:22:42 am
Post by: Xantalos on August 21, 2013, 01:23:29 am
Now, what about Sabine?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Sheb on August 21, 2013, 01:54:47 am
Post by: Xantalos on August 21, 2013, 02:24:15 am
I'm still not sure it's not an hoax to convince Elan to accept his dad's help. For all we know as soon as the order is gone geared up in magical spying kit, Tarquin will reanimate his son.But why? Nale's shown nothing to suggest he'll further his plans.
Post by: hops on August 21, 2013, 03:51:17 am
Post by: DJ on August 21, 2013, 03:56:33 am
Post by: andrea on August 21, 2013, 04:25:50 am
I wonder what is going through his mind in the last panel.
He just killed his son, and from this strip it seems obvious that he did care a fair bit about him, more than malack and perhaps more than his continent dominating plan ( he is willing to defend him to his party memebers, which is likely to cause quite a bit of strain in the team).
I don't think he is as cold and detached as he seems to be, at least in this strip.
edit: my bet is 1/3 anger, 1/3 sadness and 1/3 empty.
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 21, 2013, 05:01:29 am
Post by: Xantalos on August 21, 2013, 05:04:57 am
Well apparently "son I am killappoint" is synonymous with "son I will kill you."Fixed.
Post by: Oliolli on August 21, 2013, 06:16:40 am
Post by: andrea on August 21, 2013, 06:55:46 am
Post by: DJ on August 21, 2013, 07:33:56 am
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 21, 2013, 07:39:49 am
Or maybe that kind of speculation is all wrong and next strip Tarquin will disintegrate Nale. Certainly the kind of dramatic twist that would make him legendary.CALLED IT (except for the method)
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 21, 2013, 08:11:08 am
Only half a coconut for that I'm afraid.Or maybe that kind of speculation is all wrong and next strip Tarquin will disintegrate Nale. Certainly the kind of dramatic twist that would make him legendary.CALLED IT (except for the method)
Post by: RedWarrior0 on August 21, 2013, 09:30:22 am
Could be he wants to show it to Elan and doesn't plan whatsoever to raise Nale.I'm still not sure it's not an hoax to convince Elan to accept his dad's help. For all we know as soon as the order is gone geared up in magical spying kit, Tarquin will reanimate his son.But why? Nale's shown nothing to suggest he'll further his plans.
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 21, 2013, 09:59:36 am
I have an inkling that Tarquin kind of expected Malak's demise.Ok, so I was wrong. He did have a plan, but he did not expect Malak to burn...
Post by: quinnr on August 21, 2013, 03:11:21 pm
Post by: Pnx on August 21, 2013, 03:31:21 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 21, 2013, 03:34:08 pm
Post by: andrea on August 21, 2013, 05:31:08 pm
We should however be close to the end of this arc.
Post by: Akura on August 23, 2013, 11:39:53 am
Of course the interesting update that everyone talks about happens while I'm asleep....How is he going to raise/animate Nale? Nale just fried the very cleric who could do so. Unless that psion could, but I'm not to familiar with the psionic rules or abilities.Could be he wants to show it to Elan and doesn't plan whatsoever to raise Nale.I'm still not sure it's not an hoax to convince Elan to accept his dad's help. For all we know as soon as the order is gone geared up in magical spying kit, Tarquin will reanimate his son.But why? Nale's shown nothing to suggest he'll further his plans.
Post by: DJ on August 23, 2013, 11:43:47 am
Post by: Scoops Novel on August 23, 2013, 12:23:02 pm
Durkon could raise him. I think he's gonna stay dead, though :(
We've seen how many people who weren't knocked out of the game by that? :P. And how much difference is there between a god and a demon?
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 23, 2013, 12:24:19 pm
Post by: Pnx on August 23, 2013, 12:40:33 pm
Post by: Frumple on August 23, 2013, 01:08:20 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 23, 2013, 01:44:36 pm
+3 plate mail of smug victory.
...Why do I personally desire this magical item?
Post by: GlyphGryph on August 23, 2013, 02:06:06 pm
I just find myself hoping someone turns nale into a suit of armor. Maybe a hat. Craft up the bones, stick the soul in it, enchant the bugger, +3 plate mail of smug victory. Sounds like a good way to keep someone from coming back, that.This just gives me an idea around building a character who has been resurrected several times, and all of his equipment is made up of his previous leftover body parts, many of which are enchanted.
Self-skin cloak, self-skull-helmet-of-strength, bone-sword made from own bones, etc. and so on.
Post by: Oliolli on August 23, 2013, 02:17:20 pm
I just find myself hoping someone turns nale into a suit of armor. Maybe a hat. Craft up the bones, stick the soul in it, enchant the bugger, +3 plate mail of smug victory. Sounds like a good way to keep someone from coming back, that.
Belkar's kobold-head headgear not good enough for you?
Post by: Frumple on August 23, 2013, 02:21:19 pm
Post by: Sheb on August 25, 2013, 10:27:18 am
Post by: freeformschooler on August 25, 2013, 12:56:21 pm
Post by: Heron TSG on August 25, 2013, 03:24:25 pm
Post by: scrdest on August 25, 2013, 06:41:11 pm
I just find myself hoping someone turns nale into a suit of armor. Maybe a hat. Craft up the bones, stick the soul in it, enchant the bugger, +3 plate mail of smug victory. Sounds like a good way to keep someone from coming back, that.This just gives me an idea around building a character who has been resurrected several times, and all of his equipment is made up of his previous leftover body parts, many of which are enchanted.
Self-skin cloak, self-skull-helmet-of-strength, bone-sword made from own bones, etc. and so on.
Now THAT'S what I call a revenant.
Post by: tryrar on August 25, 2013, 06:49:10 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 25, 2013, 06:51:15 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on August 25, 2013, 09:09:36 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 25, 2013, 09:10:37 pm
Contingency on (true) resurrection triggering when your undead self is destroyed. Bam, raised yourself.
That's a hell of a contingency plan. Can you loop those together?
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 25, 2013, 09:10:50 pm
I don't think a negative energy being could prepare such a high positive energy spell.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on August 25, 2013, 09:16:49 pm
Technically, you can, except that one's on the Cleric list and one's on the Sorcerer/Wizard list. This can be avoided with a scroll of Contingency and a good Spellcraft check, or, for cheesier methods, use a quirk in the rules where a Cleric (with the Scribe Scroll feat) can scribe a divine scroll of an arcane spell if he has someone else cast the spell for him.Contingency on (true) resurrection triggering when your undead self is destroyed. Bam, raised yourself.
That's a hell of a contingency plan. Can you loop those together?
Nope, doesn't matter in the D&Dverse. There isn't any rule saying Conjuration (Healing) spells are barred for undead, and it's on the general cleric list.
I don't think a negative energy being could prepare such a high positive energy spell.
Post by: Sheb on August 26, 2013, 10:14:45 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Bauglir on August 26, 2013, 10:28:14 am
Post by: freeformschooler on August 26, 2013, 10:40:43 am
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 26, 2013, 12:23:07 pm
Post by: Lich180 on August 26, 2013, 05:53:13 pm
Sabine is mad.
Post by: Ringmaster on August 27, 2013, 05:53:55 am
Post by: Skyrunner on August 27, 2013, 05:56:59 am
The way he said he expected no-one to actually love Nale might betray the fact that he doesn't know Sabine actually loves him.So, Sabine v. Tarquin in about twelve hours, then.I have a distinct feeling Tarquin would win. He's far more genre savvy than Sabine is, and so is probably expecting it and has prepared for it.
Post by: Scoops Novel on August 27, 2013, 03:26:00 pm
Post by: Oliolli on August 29, 2013, 09:48:15 am
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 29, 2013, 09:53:46 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 29, 2013, 03:56:37 pm
Tarquin is the best Lawful Evil character in history.
He's definitely up there, yeah.
Post by: Bauglir on August 29, 2013, 06:13:04 pm
Post by: Akura on August 30, 2013, 11:20:21 am
Not sure on that, since the last thing he said is tempting fate for that. Although, I don't doubt Tarquin has means of dealing with energy drain. Maybe some Sabine-on-Lauren action instead? And yes, this being Sabine, it can be either sexy or violent(both is an option).So, Sabine v. Tarquin in about twelve hours, then.I have a distinct feeling Tarquin would win. He's far more genre savvy than Sabine is, and so is probably expecting it and has prepared for it.
Nope. Contigency can cast 6th level spells at most(and require you to be at least 18th level for that, barring possibly Heighten Spell). Resurrection is 7th level, True is 9th.Technically, you can, except that one's on the Cleric list and one's on the Sorcerer/Wizard list. This can be avoided with a scroll of Contingency and a good Spellcraft check, or, for cheesier methods, use a quirk in the rules where a Cleric (with the Scribe Scroll feat) can scribe a divine scroll of an arcane spell if he has someone else cast the spell for him.Contingency on (true) resurrection triggering when your undead self is destroyed. Bam, raised yourself.
That's a hell of a contingency plan. Can you loop those together?
Possibly a Clone spell would work, which Vaarsuvius might be able to cast. Granted, it takes 2d4 months(time they probably don't have) to grow but also may or may not require them to destroy the vampire(the SRD just says they revive upon death, or immediately if already dead. The soul might not be "available", though).
EDIT: New one. So much for those amnesty papers.
Post by: Pnx on August 30, 2013, 12:42:55 pm
Post by: i2amroy on August 30, 2013, 02:58:28 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on September 01, 2013, 11:36:14 am
Nope. Contigency can cast 6th level spells at most(and require you to be at least 18th level for that, barring possibly Heighten Spell). Resurrection is 7th level, True is 9th.Ah, you're right, I missed that part.
Post by: Oliolli on September 03, 2013, 08:15:48 am
Post by: RedWarrior0 on September 03, 2013, 11:50:43 am
Well then.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 03, 2013, 12:06:31 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 03, 2013, 12:08:19 pm
Post by: MadMalkavian on September 03, 2013, 12:20:36 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 03, 2013, 12:25:22 pm
Post by: Oliolli on September 05, 2013, 03:23:10 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on September 05, 2013, 03:30:02 pm
Post by: scriver on September 05, 2013, 03:34:31 pm
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 05, 2013, 04:06:01 pm
(I also wonder if his comeuppance will be being brough down by him, both in the sense that it establishes HIM as the sub-boss, and that a chaotic character is the one beating him)
Post by: Bauglir on September 05, 2013, 05:26:04 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 05, 2013, 05:28:28 pm
Post by: scriver on September 05, 2013, 07:52:04 pm
Post by: IronyOwl on September 05, 2013, 08:05:41 pm
It's very likely that Tarquin will be casually murdered by Xykon at some point, yeah. He understands the rules of storytelling and all that very well, but the problem is that he misevaluates his own position in the story (amusingly enough, he'd probably be able to recognize this if he actually critically examined what his own role has been so far, but he won't).
I'm pretty convinced Tarquin will be killed by the demonlady. Possibly while remarking on how he should have realised (because rule of drama) she would have to revenge her murdered boyfriend and how it would be her because it allows the hero to triumph over him without having the blame of murdered his own father.The problem with both of these is that he's not stupid, he's not careless, and he's not insignificant in pretty much any regard. Getting taken completely by surprise, even by an epic or nearly so lich, doesn't sound likely unless Xykon gets reeaaaaally clever pretty much out of nowhere- something he hasn't really been known for so far.
Getting taken out by Sabine in some fashion is far more likely, but she'd also need to get incredibly clever and/or pull some strings regarding her superiors. I don't doubt she'll be relevant to something in some fashion, but she doesn't really have a visible path to Tarquin at the moment.
Post by: Pnx on September 05, 2013, 08:47:28 pm
I mean Redcloak may be playing a very dedicated advisor role, but at the end of the day he's been lying to Xykon about the rifts (Xykon can't feasibly use it to take over the world), and he's always been the one with the plan that gets things done. I reckon that once Xykon has helped him secure the last rift, he's going to just wind up offing Xykon, and then becoming the primary villain.
Post by: Darvi on September 06, 2013, 09:02:59 am
Post by: Ringmaster on September 06, 2013, 11:33:45 am
I wouldn't underestimate Xykon too much
That's pretty important, I'm sure one of Xykon's best quotes is to Redcloak, saying "Don't confuse not knowing with not caring.", he probably knows a lot more than he lets on, he just doesn't think of most of it as a big enough threat to be worth dealing with.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 06, 2013, 12:47:12 pm
Post by: Xantalos on September 06, 2013, 01:14:38 pm
Yeah, but being lazy is the kind of thing that nearly got him (truly) killed back in the Battle of Azure City. I can't imagine Tarquin is completely without something to deal with powerful undead either.He did live with Malack for all those years, after all.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on September 11, 2013, 04:38:35 pm
If you note the spiffy new title, it's because the forums have a character limit for titles and the old one didn't fit.
Post by: Neonivek on September 11, 2013, 04:41:24 pm
Post by: Darvi on September 11, 2013, 04:44:13 pm
Post by: Neonivek on September 11, 2013, 04:45:27 pm
Thread title says no.
Ohh I thought it was just a really old one.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on September 11, 2013, 04:46:52 pm
Also, Elan's song is wonderful.
Post by: Neonivek on September 11, 2013, 04:52:08 pm
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 11, 2013, 04:58:23 pm
that dust the succubus was gathering.... might it be post-disintegration dust?
just saying. It seems too coincidental to see her bothering with that.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 11, 2013, 05:00:17 pm
Post by: Neonivek on September 11, 2013, 05:01:43 pm
That would be broken glass, from the TV.
Which as we all know is the only way to slay animated meatloaves.
Post by: Yoink on September 12, 2013, 12:50:51 am
Well, as I mentioned in the Happy Thread I've been reading my way through the comics almost non-stop for the last few days.
Damn, these are good. I'm a little confused as to how I've never read more than a few of them before... I guess I'm just not good at webcomics. :D Up to #672. Taking a break at #680.
Edit: ...Wait. If #672 is the end of a book, I might as well take a break here. :P
Post by: Akura on September 13, 2013, 11:47:51 am
Maybe not, Thog is CE(?) and I'm assuming that's supposed to be the LE pile... so where's Nale? I do see a few Azurites in there, huh.
The look on Tarquin's face is priceless, though.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 13, 2013, 12:08:38 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on September 13, 2013, 12:10:42 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 13, 2013, 12:14:42 pm
Post by: andrea on September 13, 2013, 12:18:22 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on September 13, 2013, 12:40:59 pm
It's never been stated, but the logic is that as Elan is Chaotic Good, Nale must by definition be Lawful Evil.It's also been states multiple times that despite how much Nale wants his team to be the direct opposite of Ethan's team, it just isn't true.
Personally, I think he winds up in prison way, way too often to be lawful.
Post by: Darvi on September 13, 2013, 01:15:34 pm
Post by: armeggedonCounselor on September 13, 2013, 01:21:14 pm
That, and the whole associating with a (CE) succubus.
"Associating." Nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more.
Post by: Oliolli on September 13, 2013, 03:09:52 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 13, 2013, 03:12:18 pm
Post by: IronyOwl on September 13, 2013, 04:58:03 pm
Always Lawful Good, so....unlikely in the extreme.And if Drow have taught us anything about usual alignments? :P
Post by: Pnx on September 13, 2013, 05:08:42 pm
It's that in this comic, so far you always seem to be your race's alignment.Always Lawful Good, so....unlikely in the extreme.And if Drow have taught us anything about usual alignments? :P
Post by: Darvi on September 13, 2013, 05:23:09 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 15, 2013, 05:46:04 pm
It's very likely that Tarquin will be casually murdered by Xykon at some point, yeah. He understands the rules of storytelling and all that very well, but the problem is that he misevaluates his own position in the story (amusingly enough, he'd probably be able to recognize this if he actually critically examined what his own role has been so far, but he won't).I'd disagree; he understands his role fully well. He doesn't mind being killed off [we know this from his casual expectant demise at the hands of one of his sons], he just wants a good narrative death. He also knows what to expect of his relations with Xykon. He says that him against Xykon would result with one of them dying to establish one of the villains as being more dangerous, which is why he'd rather have Elan and the heroes take on Xykon, incurring little risk to himself.
Post by: Skyrunner on September 15, 2013, 07:59:48 pm
Post by: Remalle on September 15, 2013, 10:43:17 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on September 17, 2013, 04:35:50 pm
Post by: Darvi on September 17, 2013, 04:39:39 pm
Very to the point, V.
Post by: Remalle on September 17, 2013, 07:17:21 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 17, 2013, 07:19:56 pm
And Vaarsuvius demonstrates exactly why Rich usually keeps him/her/it/other out of the fray.
Because it's hard to generate plausible threats to the party while V is present?
Post by: Darvi on September 17, 2013, 07:21:02 pm
Post by: Glowcat on September 18, 2013, 12:34:30 am
And it makes, a fiery ring.
Bound, by wile powers,
V fell into a ring of fire.
Post by: scriver on September 18, 2013, 03:37:06 am
Up jumped the Devil and he staked his claim on me. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVNkA8Dfi60)
Post by: Oliolli on September 18, 2013, 03:39:14 am
I'm guessing Vaarsuvius will solve this somehow.
Called it.
Post by: IronyOwl on September 18, 2013, 05:17:57 am
Bear in mind that he hasn't officially solved it yet; he's just blasted some more mooks and made it difficult/impossible for them to engage in melee for a while.I'm guessing Vaarsuvius will solve this somehow.
Called it.
That said, it wouldn't particularly surprise me if their way out involved a wizard spell.
Post by: Bauglir on September 18, 2013, 09:26:11 am
Post by: Scoops Novel on September 19, 2013, 11:52:02 am
hmm... I wonder if Tarquin's recent comments about Xykon being a sub-boss count as "pride before the fall". Particularily considering how underestimating X is correlated to bad things happening afterwards
(I also wonder if his comeuppance will be being brough down by him, both in the sense that it establishes HIM as the sub-boss, and that a chaotic character is the one beating him)
Annd context. Tarquin is clearly playing their strings here, but he has still just lost his son. His webs are going to be a little tangled.
Post by: i2amroy on September 19, 2013, 02:15:45 pm
That said, it wouldn't particularly surprise me if their way out involved a wizard spell.Durkon might summon some sort of giant creature to get them out! (He is considerably more awesome now that he's a vampire after all. :P)
That said I'm gonna go with the long bet that the Paladins port in to save them. They did know that Xykon was on the way there after all, so I wouldn't be surprised to see them all show up expecting a Xykon battle only to end up engaging with Tarquin and offering our heroes a way out.
Post by: Oliolli on September 20, 2013, 04:23:56 am
That said I'm gonna go with the long bet that the Paladins port in to save them. They did know that Xykon was on the way there after all, so I wouldn't be surprised to see them all show up expecting a Xykon battle only to end up engaging with Tarquin and offering our heroes a way out.
And when exactly did they figure out where the pyramid actually is?
Post by: Akura on September 20, 2013, 11:23:37 am
Didn't he already use up his spells? Then again, now that they have a defensive buffer, he could theoretically use the time to pray for an extra spell or two, if I read the cleric spell-preparation rules right, unless Thor's religious practices require it at dawn(and, it being reversed by Durkon's vampirism, now dusk).That said, it wouldn't particularly surprise me if their way out involved a wizard spell.Durkon might summon some sort of giant creature to get them out! (He is considerably more awesome now that he's a vampire after all. :P)
That said I'm gonna go with the long bet that the Paladins port in to save them. They did know that Xykon was on the way there after all, so I wouldn't be surprised to see them all show up expecting a Xykon battle only to end up engaging with Tarquin and offering our heroes a way out.I don't think they ever resurrected that wizard that took them to Cliffport ;).
Hinjo's spellcasters managed a Sending just before the gate was destroyed, which, since it allows a reply, they could have easily told them exactly where Windy Cave was. Or at least the general location, which they could probably use to scry the exact position(the anti-scrying spells probably have faded since the Draketooths were wiped out).That said I'm gonna go with the long bet that the Paladins port in to save them. They did know that Xykon was on the way there after all, so I wouldn't be surprised to see them all show up expecting a Xykon battle only to end up engaging with Tarquin and offering our heroes a way out.
And when exactly did they figure out where the pyramid actually is?
Post by: lemon10 on September 20, 2013, 12:10:43 pm
Yeah, he just said that he is all out of spells, and that he will get them all back at dusk.Didn't he already use up his spells? Then again, now that they have a defensive buffer, he could theoretically use the time to pray for an extra spell or two, if I read the cleric spell-preparation rules right, unless Thor's religious practices require it at dawn(and, it being reversed by Durkon's vampirism, now dusk).That said, it wouldn't particularly surprise me if their way out involved a wizard spell.Durkon might summon some sort of giant creature to get them out! (He is considerably more awesome now that he's a vampire after all. :P)
Post by: Ringmaster on September 20, 2013, 03:20:58 pm
Post by: Darvi on September 20, 2013, 04:02:43 pm
Post by: Xantalos on September 20, 2013, 06:57:39 pm
Roy, would it kill you to just once shut up and listen?Yes it would.
Post by: IronyOwl on September 20, 2013, 09:15:21 pm
Didn't he already use up his spells? Then again, now that they have a defensive buffer, he could theoretically use the time to pray for an extra spell or two, if I read the cleric spell-preparation rules right, unless Thor's religious practices require it at dawn(and, it being reversed by Durkon's vampirism, now dusk).As far as I remember, clerics can't partial-refresh like that. They're out until they're fully back in.
In addition to utterly annihilating his soul, yes.Roy, would it kill you to just once shut up and listen?Yes it would.
Really though, jumping through the portal is a good way out. Trouble is it doesn't lead anywhere useful and would presumably necessitate a fairly prolonged and unrelated arc concerning faffing about in a snarlmension.
I suspect a more mundane, or at least more conventional, or at least not-interplanar solution.
Post by: misko27 on September 21, 2013, 11:00:59 pm
Post by: Sensei on September 22, 2013, 04:56:53 am
Clerics can change out prepared spells for other prepared spells at any time (takes at least ten minutes to do so), that's no help if he's out. What's more, preparing new spells (at dusk in this case) takes a full hour of meditation, so you don't really just get new spells in the middle of a pitched battle.Didn't he already use up his spells? Then again, now that they have a defensive buffer, he could theoretically use the time to pray for an extra spell or two, if I read the cleric spell-preparation rules right, unless Thor's religious practices require it at dawn(and, it being reversed by Durkon's vampirism, now dusk).As far as I remember, clerics can't partial-refresh like that. They're out until they're fully back in.
Well, that's the 3.5 rules anyway.
Post by: Oliolli on September 26, 2013, 12:26:45 am
Post by: Tack on September 26, 2013, 03:02:56 am
Post by: Darvi on September 26, 2013, 03:05:31 am
Post by: scrdest on September 26, 2013, 04:09:17 am
I always assumed Elan was Stupid Good.
No, he's Good and also just happens to be stupid. Entirely different concept (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IdiotHero).
Stupid Good is not someone who is both good and stupid, it is someone whose goodness is stupid. So, say, after defeating a villain for the third time, he lets him go after the villain promises to be good from now on, or treats street criminals like misbehaving Boy Scouts.
Post by: Tack on September 26, 2013, 05:47:38 am
And as far as I can tell, he has portrayed no lawful nor chaotic traits, and has portrayed a lot of stupid traits.
So, say, after defeating a villain for the third time, he lets him go after the villain promises to be good from now on.And you think Elan wouldn't?
Post by: Akura on September 26, 2013, 11:41:47 am
Please people. I know what Stupid Good is, otherwise i wouldn't have suggested it with the handy capitalized letters.Chaotic. He commits various thefts in Cliffport after breaking out of jail, and though he feels guilty about it, he never actually owns up to them.
And as far as I can tell, he has portrayed no lawful nor chaotic traits, and has portrayed a lot of stupid traits.
Quote
"How were you planning on paying for the diet soda, then?"
"30ft. per round movement rate."
Post by: Sensei on September 26, 2013, 05:28:15 pm
Post by: Tack on September 26, 2013, 08:20:07 pm
Post by: misko27 on September 26, 2013, 09:01:44 pm
That was Roy...Elan even sings a song where he mentions they get sent to different planes when they die because he's Chaotic good and Roy's lawful.
Post by: Sensei on September 27, 2013, 02:57:53 am
That was Roy...Elan even sings a song where he mentions they get sent to different planes when they die because he's Chaotic good and Roy's lawful.
That was Roy...Hm, disregard me in that case. I seem to have rolled a 1 on reading comprehension.
Perhaps my only level is in barbian and I never even realized it until now.
Post by: Xantalos on September 27, 2013, 03:11:22 am
Perhaps that's more true than you thought :PThat was Roy...Elan even sings a song where he mentions they get sent to different planes when they die because he's Chaotic good and Roy's lawful.That was Roy...Hm, disregard me in that case. I seem to have rolled a 1 on reading comprehension.
Perhaps my only level is in barbian and I never even realized it until now.
Post by: Sensei on September 27, 2013, 03:19:40 am
Post by: scrdest on September 27, 2013, 03:52:51 am
That was Roy...Elan even sings a song where he mentions they get sent to different planes when they die because he's Chaotic good and Roy's lawful.That was Roy...Hm, disregard me in that case. I seem to have rolled a 1 on reading comprehension.
Perhaps my only level is in barbian and I never even realized it until now.
Barbians. Weapon proficency is Thrown Weapons (Shrimp), I imagine.
Post by: Oliolli on September 27, 2013, 10:22:07 am
Post by: RedWarrior0 on October 01, 2013, 09:39:38 am
Post by: Taricus on October 01, 2013, 09:41:50 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on October 01, 2013, 09:53:26 am
Post by: Oliolli on October 01, 2013, 10:11:49 am
Post by: Remalle on October 01, 2013, 10:44:18 am
Post by: DJ on October 01, 2013, 11:52:30 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on October 01, 2013, 12:22:52 pm
I wonder if he'll get to keep him.
I doubt it, sadly.
Post by: misko27 on October 01, 2013, 05:51:14 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 01, 2013, 05:53:11 pm
Belkar has moved from weakened non-combatant to the Allosaur-riding cavalry striking fear into the enemy.A wizard buffed it
Post by: IronyOwl on October 01, 2013, 10:34:00 pm
Post by: Oliolli on October 02, 2013, 05:30:37 am
I wonder if he'll get to keep him.
I doubt it, sadly.
Yeah, he already has Mr. Scruffy.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on October 02, 2013, 12:40:37 pm
The Order of the Stick: Now with 70% more allosaurus.100% more allosaurus. Maybe more. Birds are part dinosaur and allosauruses are part of dinosaurs ergo birds are allosauruses and you know who has a raven familiar?
Post by: Liber celi on October 02, 2013, 03:43:16 pm
commandeer a dinosaur.
Also, do halflings get mali on riding checks because of their woefully short legs? And are there adjustments for Allosauri?
Post by: Doomblade187 on October 02, 2013, 07:24:39 pm
Just like the presumably old saying goes: When life gives you lemons,I don't think they do, but even if they did, Belkar is technically a ranger.
commandeer a dinosaur.
Also, do halflings get mali on riding checks because of their woefully short legs? And are there adjustments for Allosauri?
Post by: hops on October 05, 2013, 04:34:07 am
Just like the presumably old saying goes: When life gives you lemons,sigged
commandeer a dinosaur.
Also, do halflings get mali on riding checks because of their woefully short legs? And are there adjustments for Allosauri?
Post by: LordBucket on October 05, 2013, 08:55:52 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/A590Cxo.jpg)
Post by: hops on October 05, 2013, 10:33:19 pm
Order of the Stick and the Order of the Stone may foil my evil plan, but Order of the Words will never inconvenience me.A name minecraft gad for a short while was minecraft: order of the stone.Just loaded minecraft and saw this:Oh My Armok...
(http://i.imgur.com/A590Cxo.jpg)
Notch knows. WE ARE DEAD!
Because, as he said, it sounds like order of the stick.
Post by: Xantalos on October 05, 2013, 10:39:40 pm
Post by: IronyOwl on October 05, 2013, 11:24:46 pm
Post by: i2amroy on October 09, 2013, 01:26:50 am
And who would have thought that Belkar would be the one to get them out of this? I mean seriously, he hasn't really done like anything helpful for the party ever!
Post by: Liber celi on October 09, 2013, 04:11:56 am
ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED: Sig 'Em, Big Guy!Just like the presumably old saying goes: When life gives you lemons,sigged
commandeer a dinosaur.
___
I like how Belkar implies charging Tarquin would be a reasonable course of action.
Post by: Oliolli on October 09, 2013, 05:07:03 am
Post by: Darvi on October 09, 2013, 09:05:49 am
Or wait, that's what you too have been talking about is it. Jeez, I find your lack of manners disturbing.
Post by: Oliolli on October 09, 2013, 10:09:48 am
Or wait, that's what you too have been talking about is it. Jeez, I find your lack of manners disturbing.
At least I mention it in the titles of my posts.
Post by: scriver on October 09, 2013, 10:54:40 am
Post by: RedWarrior0 on October 09, 2013, 02:08:43 pm
But they managed to break out. Good for them.
Post by: Oliolli on October 09, 2013, 02:27:21 pm
It only shows up outside of the thread if you alter the first post, Oliolli.
I am aware of that.
Post by: i2amroy on October 10, 2013, 12:53:31 pm
I like how Belkar implies charging Tarquin would be a reasonable course of action.I didn't get that feeling at all. It seemed more like he agreed with Roy's decision to go away from Tarquin.
Belkar: Which way?
Roy: Directly away form Elan's dad.
Belkar: I hear that.
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 13, 2013, 03:39:36 pm
Post by: Oliolli on October 14, 2013, 07:47:57 am
A badly wounded Order of the Stick w/ vampire Durkon versus Tarquin and two of his adventuring buddies?
Remembering the last time Tarquin fought them this can't end well.
Post by: Luke_Prowler on October 14, 2013, 11:29:20 am
Post by: misko27 on October 14, 2013, 11:38:57 am
Post by: Remalle on October 14, 2013, 12:22:00 pm
Post by: DJ on October 14, 2013, 12:32:18 pm
Post by: andrea on October 14, 2013, 12:55:40 pm
Post by: lemon10 on October 14, 2013, 01:18:25 pm
In the first fight (AKA the one that wasn't a well planned out ambush) Tarquin was able to pretty much solo all of them, and even then he was just toying with them.
Now I am sure that Vaar will help quite a bit, but the help that she can provide will be far outweighed by the two casters that are both almost surely far stronger then s/he is.
Obviously they will survive somehow, but I can't see the Order winning that fight without massive reinforcements even if they managed to ambush Tarquin
Post by: 10ebbor10 on October 14, 2013, 01:19:24 pm
Or heroic sacrifice
Post by: hops on October 14, 2013, 02:03:40 pm
Post by: Lich180 on October 14, 2013, 03:18:55 pm
Just 2¢
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 14, 2013, 03:21:39 pm
Post by: DJ on October 14, 2013, 03:43:13 pm
Post by: hops on October 14, 2013, 08:17:46 pm
Laurin may have something in the works, seeing how she said she gets a favor, and it can be cleared by the end of the day.i have a feeling that Tarquin's ego and his belief in his own charisma had caused him to think that Laurin wanted to have sex with him, when in truth she is probably planning something.
Just 2¢
Post by: misko27 on October 14, 2013, 11:19:46 pm
Sorta against this, as he's nothing if not realistic about most things, and he has known her for what would appear to be many years, and they're very good friends too.Laurin may have something in the works, seeing how she said she gets a favor, and it can be cleared by the end of the day.i have a feeling that Tarquin's ego and his belief in his own charisma had caused him to think that Laurin wanted to have sex with him, when in truth she is probably planning something.
Just 2¢
Maybe mutiny?I bet the Heroic sacrifice of everyone but Elan and Haley would work.
Or heroic sacrifice
Post by: FuzzyZergling on October 15, 2013, 01:52:56 pm
Empires of Blood, Sweat and Tears...Well fuck, that took me entirely too long to get.
Post by: IronyOwl on October 15, 2013, 04:30:57 pm
... I think this is going to be the end of the Empires of Blood, Sweat and Tears :/Remember that they've got two additional members and are deeply entrenched. Unless something causes their complete dissolution, like Laurin's favor being "kill your other son," I'm not sure even those three dying would cut it.
I bet the Heroic sacrifice of everyone but Elan and Haley would work.That's kind of the default plan anyway, though. Tarquin wants Roy dead because he feels it'll inspire Elan. Everyone but Haley and Elan biting it might just be bonus points in that scheme.
The obvious Roy-Not-Dead option would be Tarquin becoming convinced that simply defending Roy has inspired Elan enough, or that Roy's influence is a good thing, or something to that nature. They probably can't rely on Tarquin's buddies turning on him, as mentioned (though that favor does make me wonder), I can't think of where they'd get external allies, and their odds of taking all three of them in straight battle seem pretty nil. That seems to leave Tarquin succeeding or changing his mind as the only real options.
For some reason I do get the feeling this arc is coming to an end, though.
Post by: Skyrunner on October 16, 2013, 03:27:30 am
mind blownEmpires of Blood, Sweat and Tears...Well fuck, that took me entirely too long to get.
Post by: Tiruin on October 16, 2013, 04:54:47 am
And here I was thinking that the Empire of Blood and the other two empires of Sweat and Tears were just funny names because of how...chaotic the whole place is.mind blownEmpires of Blood, Sweat and Tears...Well fuck, that took me entirely too long to get.
>_<
Post by: Darvi on October 16, 2013, 05:05:31 am
Post by: misko27 on October 16, 2013, 02:08:42 pm
of the western continent. Hell, I thought it was a one off joke.
I could understand the empire of blood, and even the empire of tears, what with the weeping king; but the empire of sweat? Queen Shvitzer?
Post by: scriver on October 17, 2013, 11:05:09 am
Post by: Akura on October 18, 2013, 12:23:39 pm
Why would Laurin want Elan dead? The main reasons she wanted Nale dead was because he killed Malack, and was pretty much a douchebag in every way. Elan? Not so much.... I think this is going to be the end of the Empires of Blood, Sweat and Tears :/Remember that they've got two additional members and are deeply entrenched. Unless something causes their complete dissolution, like Laurin's favor being "kill your other son," I'm not sure even those three dying would cut it.
Possible ending to this? I'd say something involving Sabine, or possibly the OotS telling the dragon empress about Tarquin's schemes(the lizardfolk diplomat with the monocle was killed because he was about to tell her, and Elan knows it).
Post by: misko27 on October 18, 2013, 03:07:07 pm
Remember this entire strip occured next to the Empress. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0763.html) I wouldn't count on her, at all. I'm not sure she actually has any power whatsoever. Remember that they periodically overthrow the old leader and replace them, and I don't think that she would stand to do much. Add in that she's as dumb as a rock and that Belkar could easily outsmart her, and I don't think that she stands to be anything more then a figure-head.Why would Laurin want Elan dead? The main reasons she wanted Nale dead was because he killed Malack, and was pretty much a douchebag in every way. Elan? Not so much.... I think this is going to be the end of the Empires of Blood, Sweat and Tears :/Remember that they've got two additional members and are deeply entrenched. Unless something causes their complete dissolution, like Laurin's favor being "kill your other son," I'm not sure even those three dying would cut it.
Possible ending to this? I'd say something involving Sabine, or possibly the OotS telling the dragon empress about Tarquin's schemes(the lizardfolk diplomat with the monocle was killed because he was about to tell her, and Elan knows it).
Now Sabine, she could do something. How long has it been since she was banished?
Post by: IronyOwl on October 18, 2013, 06:50:06 pm
Why would Laurin want Elan dead? The main reasons she wanted Nale dead was because he killed Malack, and was pretty much a douchebag in every way. Elan? Not so much.I wouldn't think so either, but that's about what it would take.
I am curious what the favor is, though. I suspect it'll be something relevant, and we don't have any idea what that might be other than a favor for her daughter or something.
Possible ending to this? I'd say something involving Sabine
Now Sabine, she could do something. How long has it been since she was banished?A lot less than 24 hours. She was banished in the fight beneath the pyramid, and even counting however many hours they stood in the phantasm trap, that still shouldn't be anywhere near a full day. It's also still bright out, so even, say, 8 hours is probably generous. I'm thinking 2-6 is most likely.
Also, can she plane shift at will? I remember her coming and going somehow, but I don't recall the specifics. I guess the fiends could help her out if they thought it was really worth it, but I would assume they'd take the same stance as Tarquin.
Post by: Akura on October 19, 2013, 11:47:46 am
Also, can she plane shift at will? I remember her coming and going somehow, but I don't recall the specifics. I guess the fiends could help her out if they thought it was really worth it, but I would assume they'd take the same stance as Tarquin.1/day Plane Shift power, according to this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0380.html).
Post by: tahujdt on October 21, 2013, 11:44:13 am
If I remember my dinosaurs correctly, a triceratops' horns were mostly for show/defense, not attacking. I don't think that Tarquin will be actually using his dino in combat.
Post by: Remalle on October 21, 2013, 12:22:51 pm
Post by: andrea on October 21, 2013, 12:46:44 pm
of course, we don't know her level, nor the details on wormhole. So she is going to cast it until plot demands it.
Post by: Oliolli on October 21, 2013, 01:20:36 pm
Post by: Kydrasz on October 21, 2013, 03:47:46 pm
Post by: Remalle on October 21, 2013, 03:54:04 pm
I think that's the first time Haley used her boots of speed, first time I noticed anyway.It is indeed. Interesting that the first time she uses them is when she's airborne.
Post by: Sensei on October 21, 2013, 06:02:52 pm
...well, unless fourth edition changed that somehow. :P
Post by: ed boy on October 21, 2013, 06:11:09 pm
In strip 675, she gets them dyed to another colour. They shouldn't be green in the latest strip.I think that's the first time Haley used her boots of speed, first time I noticed anyway.It is indeed. Interesting that the first time she uses them is when she's airborne.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on October 21, 2013, 06:13:35 pm
In strip 675, she gets them dyed to another colour. They shouldn't be green in the latest strip.I think that's the first time Haley used her boots of speed, first time I noticed anyway.It is indeed. Interesting that the first time she uses them is when she's airborne.
If you noticed, they stop being green when she gets shot. The green color was clearly a magical aura.
Post by: misko27 on October 21, 2013, 08:03:44 pm
Hmm, without the Allosauraus, the Order would be toast, and without the Triceratops, Tarquin wouldn't be able to catch them at all, and would need to go back for another, which is where they might escape entirely. I suspect a Dinosaur fight is in order.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on October 21, 2013, 08:17:25 pm
Damn, that Dimension Door puts the caster-chick at a caster level of 18, if we're going 3.5 edition rules. It's one creature per 3 caster levels, and the Huge triceratops counts as four creatures. So the triceratops plus two passengers makes for six creatures pulled along.Might not be DDoor. Also, Rich has said he's not going past 4e.
...well, unless fourth edition changed that somehow. :P
Post by: Skyrunner on October 21, 2013, 09:23:53 pm
Post by: Helgoland on October 22, 2013, 04:10:51 am
Post by: FuzzyZergling on October 22, 2013, 11:00:55 am
Belkar never gets to keep any of his stuff.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on October 22, 2013, 11:05:58 am
Post by: Remalle on October 22, 2013, 11:49:02 am
Post by: IronyOwl on October 22, 2013, 04:38:02 pm
Baleful Polymorph doesn't have a time limit, right? Can it be dispelled?Thought you needed Break Enchantment, but the d20 SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/) doesn't mention anything like that that, so I guess dispelling would probably work.
Assuming, of course, that they can beat the caster level, have dispel prepared, are willing to try trading spells with him, etc etc. I suspect they're going to give up and just start fighting without it.
Post by: quinnr on October 22, 2013, 04:41:10 pm
Baleful Polymorph doesn't have a time limit, right? Can it be dispelled?According to the Internet, it seems that the effect is permanent. There is a whole thread I found on whether Baleful Polymorph can be dispelled, and it seems the consensus would be that it can be, though...poor Belkar.
Post by: Sensei on October 22, 2013, 05:04:18 pm
As a Permanent effect, it can be dispelled- permanent means that after the spell is cast, magic is still going on. Compare to, say, Wall of Stone, which is Instantaneous- once the wall of stone is made, the magic is done, the wall isn't magical so it can't be dispelled.Baleful Polymorph doesn't have a time limit, right? Can it be dispelled?According to the Internet, it seems that the effect is permanent. There is a whole thread I found on whether Baleful Polymorph can be dispelled, and it seems the consensus would be that it can be, though...poor Belkar.
Post by: Akura on October 25, 2013, 12:12:54 pm
Also, I'm pretty sure that Tarquin and co. are Level 20, if not epic. Assuming Laurin is a Psion Nomad(likely, given the teleportation effect), that puts her at at least 343 power points, assuming 20th level, and I'm not sure on bonus points due to ability scores. I can't find any power similar to the one she's using in the SRD, so I'm not sure how many power points she's burning per hop. Psionic Teleportation(9PP) seems to be the closest one, except that one could not possibly have brought an entire army like that.
Post by: Bauglir on October 25, 2013, 01:02:33 pm
Post by: Akura on October 26, 2013, 12:03:00 pm
or if she's been explicitly stated to be a psion,Tarquin specifically introduced her as a psion.
Also, isn't there one more person in their group? The page showing a flashback to them has a guy with a sword and shield.
Post by: Skyrunner on October 26, 2013, 12:09:04 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 26, 2013, 12:31:08 pm
Baleful Polymorph was once used on V to turn it into a lizard. It can be undone.Baleful Polymorph doesn't have a time limit, right? Can it be dispelled?According to the Internet, it seems that the effect is permanent. There is a whole thread I found on whether Baleful Polymorph can be dispelled, and it seems the consensus would be that it can be, though...poor Belkar.
Post by: misko27 on October 26, 2013, 12:51:16 pm
There were 6 of them, 2 leading each country. Jacinda is in the Empire of Blood currently. Number 6 guy presumably is either on his way or doing something else. I wonder what Tarquin told his teammates?or if she's been explicitly stated to be a psion,Tarquin specifically introduced her as a psion.
Also, isn't there one more person in their group? The page showing a flashback to them has a guy with a sword and shield.
I sorta doubt V will be able to do anything to the lizard quickly enough to get them out before team Tarquin starts attacking. Especially since they can of course simply kill the lizard.Baleful Polymorph was once used on V to turn it into a lizard. It can be undone.Baleful Polymorph doesn't have a time limit, right? Can it be dispelled?According to the Internet, it seems that the effect is permanent. There is a whole thread I found on whether Baleful Polymorph can be dispelled, and it seems the consensus would be that it can be, though...poor Belkar.
Post by: Remalle on October 29, 2013, 09:47:58 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on October 29, 2013, 10:10:14 pm
Post by: Skyrunner on October 29, 2013, 10:24:02 pm
Post by: Kydrasz on October 29, 2013, 10:31:47 pm
Post by: misko27 on October 29, 2013, 10:56:19 pm
So how does Prismatic Spray work, anyway?http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prismaticSpray.htm (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prismaticSpray.htm)
Tarquin looks mad. I am tempted to think he walks up to them and yells, and then situation defusing occurs, because even now, realistically, the Order could not get out of even a favorable fight with them without losing a man or two. That and it would be pretty lame to see Tarquin, who up until now has been able to take all members of the Order bar V head on, utterly lose, especially when backed up by 2 presumably equally powerful friends and against a weakened group.
Or he could unleash some monster that tries to eat the Order. But I think he is bummed out on letting underlings die, so I think he wants to kill him personally.
Post by: tahujdt on October 30, 2013, 09:13:57 am
Post by: Remalle on October 30, 2013, 09:18:53 am
Can someone please post the comic here? My school blocks giantitp.com as a games website.I doubt Toady or the Giant would be happy with that. Can't you just wait until you get home? Or use a proxy?
Post by: RedWarrior0 on October 30, 2013, 09:47:01 am
Yeah it's true. And giantitp.com is a games website.Can someone please post the comic here? My school blocks giantitp.com as a games website.I doubt Toady or the Giant would be happy with that. Can't you just wait until you get home? Or use a proxy?
Depending on your school's competence level, a proxy could work.
Post by: scriver on October 30, 2013, 09:54:23 am
...Doesn't really look like Tarquin is taking any acid damage, though, which is strange seeming as both of the others is clearly showing fire and electricity effects. Here's to Rich having misremembered the colours and he's actually supposed to be stricken by green, and the resulting 1d8 Constitution damage will save the day.
Post by: Skyrunner on October 30, 2013, 09:56:01 am
Post by: Darvi on October 30, 2013, 10:01:04 am
Post by: scriver on October 30, 2013, 10:47:11 am
So much for me being extraoverly detail-munching in order to get a "I told you so!" in the future ;)
Post by: Darvi on October 30, 2013, 10:49:36 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on October 30, 2013, 10:51:15 am
Post by: scriver on October 30, 2013, 12:15:08 pm
Post by: Akura on November 02, 2013, 11:17:06 am
Post by: Helgoland on November 02, 2013, 11:30:22 am
I'm kinda surprised Miron survived that. 80 points of damage isn't something you shrug off, plus the Fortitude save against death from massive damage. And it doesn't look like he made a Reflex save, either. Resist Energy/Protection from Energy?Plot armor.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 02, 2013, 04:46:37 pm
I'm kinda surprised Miron survived that. 80 points of damage isn't something you shrug off, plus the Fortitude save against death from massive damage. And it doesn't look like he made a Reflex save, either. Resist Energy/Protection from Energy?Typically, if you can survive 50+ points of damage, you can make a DC 15 fortitude save with a very good reliability. Also, Tarquin's party is obviously fairly high level.
Post by: Pnx on November 02, 2013, 08:31:27 pm
I'm kinda surprised Miron survived that. 80 points of damage isn't something you shrug off, plus the Fortitude save against death from massive damage. And it doesn't look like he made a Reflex save, either. Resist Energy/Protection from Energy?Well having 80+ hit points is really not unreasonable for their character levels. If he's got a D6 for hit dice, and has a +2 for con score (and con should never be a dump stat for anyone), then he would have at a minimum, 51 hit points, at a maximum, 120 by level 15. With an average of ~85.5.
I'm seriously guessing at this stuff though, I don't know what character class he is, or what level. Not sure if either has been explicitly stated yet, though I know the PC are at least level 13, probably more, and that these guys would probably be their level or close to it.
Post by: Tiruin on November 03, 2013, 04:52:14 am
I really doubt anyone has this. :PI'm kinda surprised Miron survived that. 80 points of damage isn't something you shrug off, plus the Fortitude save against death from massive damage. And it doesn't look like he made a Reflex save, either. Resist Energy/Protection from Energy?Plot armor.
Post by: Remalle on November 04, 2013, 08:15:21 pm
Post by: Kydrasz on November 04, 2013, 08:20:15 pm
Post by: FuzzyZergling on November 04, 2013, 09:43:00 pm
Anyone care to explain?
Post by: Pnx on November 04, 2013, 10:18:46 pm
I don't get the joke/reference/wordplay of what V's saying on the first panel."Xykon is feeling chilly today"?
Anyone care to explain?
Well the "Xykon" part was in reference to the plan they came up with to have Roy lock down Xykon by spamming spell disruption. The "feeling chilly" part is probably a reference to Miron's scarf.
I'm guessing the rest of the part decided to gank him of their own volition.
Post by: misko27 on November 04, 2013, 10:45:35 pm
To quote Goblins: that psion is grossly overpowered.Damn straight. Miron barely did anything, and Laurin can do whatever she puts her mind too (pun intended).
What did Laurin do just there? It couldn't have done damage or Belkar would be dead as a doorknob.
Post by: Lord Shonus on November 04, 2013, 10:58:51 pm
I don't get the joke/reference/wordplay of what V's saying on the first panel."Xykon is feeling chilly today"?
Anyone care to explain?
Well the "Xykon" part was in reference to the plan they came up with to have Roy lock down Xykon by spamming spell disruption. The "feeling chilly" part is probably a reference to Miron's scarf.
I'm guessing the rest of the part decided to gank him of their own volition.
Rich explained it over on the GitP board
Quote from: The Giant
Well, they're right anyway. It's just as simple as, "The highest priority target is the guy with the scarf," said in such a way that Tarquin didn't understand that's what was being said. Belkar later reiterates in the vernacular this exact idea in his panel.
Post by: tahujdt on November 05, 2013, 04:09:38 am
And it looks like Durkula wasn't really affected by it either.To quote Goblins: that psion is grossly overpowered.Damn straight. Miron barely did anything, and Laurin can do whatever she puts her mind too (pun intended).
What did Laurin do just there? It couldn't have done damage or Belkar would be dead as a doorknob.
It would not surprise me to learn that Tarquin had an actual physical set of plot armor made for himself.I'm kinda surprised Miron survived that. 80 points of damage isn't something you shrug off, plus the Fortitude save against death from massive damage. And it doesn't look like he made a Reflex save, either. Resist Energy/Protection from Energy?Plot armor.
Post by: i2amroy on November 05, 2013, 01:29:59 pm
Post by: tahujdt on November 05, 2013, 08:05:32 pm
I hope Durkula beats the crap out of Laurin. He'll probably do something somewhat major in the fight due to being unaffected, unless it has that sudden wear off thing that half the spells in OotS seem to suffer from.The Powers What Is in this universe probably house-ruled in a "new saving throw every turn" for all spells.
Post by: lemon10 on November 05, 2013, 10:49:44 pm
Assuming that it is mental disruption, it could be something that lasts longer then a round.
I really don't know about them actually winning though. Laurin and Tarquin are still a long way from down.
Post by: ChairmanPoo on November 10, 2013, 05:26:28 pm
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0929.html
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 10, 2013, 05:39:05 pm
IndeedTarquin stahp metagaming pls
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0929.html
Tarquin stahp
pls
Post by: Bauglir on November 10, 2013, 05:44:26 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, I can't figure out how Tarquin did that. Only thing I can think of is Cleave, and he'd know that wouldn't do what he needed.
They do have a fourth wall, I think, they're just aware of game mechanics in the same way that we're aware of physics. They aren't aware of an audience, as far as I can tell, although they get close (what with knowing about the cast page, etc.).
Post by: Lord Shonus on November 10, 2013, 05:44:47 pm
Post by: misko27 on November 10, 2013, 05:55:51 pm
Reinforcing my idea that OotS doesn't have any semblance of a fourth wall, aside from a few bits of meta-dust lying on the ground.I'd like that, I would really like that, but It won't happen. She can't use plane shift more then once a day, and it's still the same day as when they went in. If she could have come back by now, she would have. Also calling Tarquin desperate right now is a bit of a stretch, he seems in control of the situation.
Anyways, I feel almost as if there's gonna be some kind of 'enemy mine' situation between the order and Sabine. She's pissed, the order's pissed, and Tarquin is going from genre savvy to desperate.
Haley is the only one unaccounted for, so I suspect a few arrows will distract Tarquin from murdering Roy. Then, whatever will happen to stop the fight will happen.
Also OotS forums noticed that the two titles of this and the previous comic combined are "Go, Through". Forming a sentence?
Post by: Lord Shonus on November 10, 2013, 06:43:54 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 10, 2013, 06:53:23 pm
Post by: BFEL on November 10, 2013, 10:48:49 pm
GOD I LOVE TARQUIN :D
Post by: Oliolli on November 11, 2013, 05:31:47 am
Post by: Frumple on November 11, 2013, 09:36:24 am
That takes me back... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0056.html)... y'know, reading past that a bit and... I think it's just the hair, but... is it just me, or does Xykon kinda' look (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0078.html) a bit like Tarquin and family?
Post by: tahujdt on November 11, 2013, 10:36:19 am
I don't think anybody is denying that come 24 hours, Sabine will tear the skies asunder and return with all the forces of hell she can command with the sole objective of fucking up Team Tarquin's day, but this particular battle is almost certainly not lasting that long.You know, if Qvarr is smart enough to be holding onto a future service token from a high-level demon, Sabine must have a lot more ready.
Of course, Tarquin probably has another squadron cross trained in anti-demon combat.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 11, 2013, 01:23:26 pm
That reminds me of the thoughts that Haley was related to the Draketooths because of the hair. The Giant basically said that they had the same hair because there's only a few ways to draw hair in a stick figure comic.That takes me back... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0056.html)... y'know, reading past that a bit and... I think it's just the hair, but... is it just me, or does Xykon kinda' look (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0078.html) a bit like Tarquin and family?
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 11, 2013, 01:28:50 pm
Hit Points and the like have no "fourth wall" connotations. They are actual laws of this universe. Asking how many HP someone has isn't any different from asking someone in our world how hungry they are.Except you would have no way of knowing whether someone would be able to survive a sword through the gut any more than you could accurately gauge on some hunger-ometer how far away someone is from starvation.
Post by: anailater on November 11, 2013, 01:35:33 pm
Shonus isn't saying that we could, he's saying that the rules of their universe allow them too, it has nothing to do with what we can and can't do.Hit Points and the like have no "fourth wall" connotations. They are actual laws of this universe. Asking how many HP someone has isn't any different from asking someone in our world how hungry they are.Except you would have no way of knowing whether someone would be able to survive a sword through the gut any more than you could accurately gauge on some hunger-ometer how far away someone is from starvation.
Post by: Darvi on November 11, 2013, 01:37:03 pm
This particular strip isn't any more fourth wall breaking than your average Dilbert strip.
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 11, 2013, 01:41:16 pm
Shonus isn't saying that we could, he's saying that the rules of their universe allow them too, it has nothing to do with what we can and can't do.Yeah, and that's metagaming. Tarquin is being that guy.
Post by: Bauglir on November 11, 2013, 02:17:49 pm
*Referencing level up mechanics
**Referencing Concentration checks
***Referencing rule book entries
****Skill Points, and I no longer care.
Post by: misko27 on November 11, 2013, 08:37:28 pm
But (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0647.html)* all (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0652.html)** the (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0530.html)*** characters (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0669.html)**** have consistently done this.And yet besides a few semi-aware moments (referencing comic strips, mentioning how overdone something is), and the knowledge of dramatic conventions, the only person whom I can remember directly breaking the wall is the Oracle with his "And that's a in-comic year, not a actual year, Oracle fans!".
*Referencing level up mechanics
**Referencing Concentration checks
***Referencing rule book entries
****Skill Points, and I no longer care.
Post by: Karlito on November 11, 2013, 10:02:24 pm
Post by: misko27 on November 11, 2013, 10:19:35 pm
There's plenty of fourth-wall breaking in the early strips.http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EarlyInstallmentWeirdness (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EarlyInstallmentWeirdness) There is essentially no plot for the first few strips, and they're basically jokes and D&D's 3.5 edition. Once they leave the dungeon, the Giant went something like "Wait I need actual plot", and started thinking things far in advance. I heard on the OotS forum that Durkon's Vampirism was the single most thought-out-in-advance thing in the comic, his condition being always planned for him as character development. Which means he won't die here, screaming for his god as he burns under the desert sun.
Maybe Haley's looted wands?
Post by: Bauglir on November 12, 2013, 12:42:02 am
And yet besides a few semi-aware moments (referencing comic strips, mentioning how overdone something is), and the knowledge of dramatic conventions, the only person whom I can remember directly breaking the wall is the Oracle with his "And that's a in-comic year, not a actual year, Oracle fans!".But... Tarquin didn't do that. He just made an assumption about hit points.
Post by: misko27 on November 12, 2013, 01:29:07 am
I know! That is what I joined in saying, although perhaps unclearly.And yet besides a few semi-aware moments (referencing comic strips, mentioning how overdone something is), and the knowledge of dramatic conventions, the only person whom I can remember directly breaking the wall is the Oracle with his "And that's a in-comic year, not a actual year, Oracle fans!".But... Tarquin didn't do that. He just made an assumption about hit points.
Tarquin would seem like the kinda guy to meta-game, but given they are aware of the mechanics it falls under his ego making him boost himself instead.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 12, 2013, 04:05:34 pm
Post by: quinnr on November 12, 2013, 08:00:26 pm
No, I reckon this is where Belkar's gonna die. The oracle said he'd be dead around now-soonish, as I recall.
...WHAT? I do not recall this D:
Post by: Tiruin on November 12, 2013, 08:09:11 pm
No, I reckon this is where Belkar's gonna die. The oracle said he'd be dead around now-soonish, as I recall.Y'know, the Oracle didn't specifically say what kinda Belkar would die :3
I mean, yeah, we're all thinking 'Belkar will physically die!' But I'm seeing the Belkar-ish side that did die. As in, remember that shift in Greysky city? That one part with Loki's cleric? Belkar did die there..if you consider that and his new leaf.
This too. I don't think that Tarquin is metagaming at all-he's using something all the characters interpret. Instead of the usual health status we have IRL, they have hitpoints. It's how their life is there.Shonus isn't saying that we could, he's saying that the rules of their universe allow them too, it has nothing to do with what we can and can't do.Yeah, and that's metagaming. Tarquin is being that guy.
Also I don't think Tarquin is a metaknowledge or whatever meta guy there is. Just really really knowledgeable about the bardic arts..given how the whole comic is running on D&D mechanics as its laws of Physics that is.
Post by: Remalle on November 12, 2013, 08:12:39 pm
Post by: misko27 on November 12, 2013, 08:15:22 pm
Nah, the Oracle's mentioned Belkar's impending death at least a couple (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0329.html) of times (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0572.html). Specifically, that he'd "draw his last breath - ever - before the end of the year."Oh and I just got them too.
Also that he'd better not bother funding his IRA, and should savor his next birthday cake.
Post by: Sheb on November 12, 2013, 08:27:56 pm
OoTS:Twilight Edition
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 12, 2013, 08:47:17 pm
The oracle was pretty explicit about him dying, as well. It's just my hunch that this is going to be the end of the psychopathic halfling.
Post by: Tiruin on November 12, 2013, 08:48:45 pm
The oracle was pretty explicit about him dying, as well. It's just my hunch that this is going to be the end of the psychopathic halfling.That is literally what he wants you to think.
Post by: Remuthra on November 12, 2013, 08:49:22 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 13, 2013, 04:58:55 pm
New comic is up, btw.
And might I add, HELL TO THE FUCKING YES.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 13, 2013, 05:00:46 pm
Post by: Sheb on November 13, 2013, 05:10:38 pm
Post by: Xantalos on November 13, 2013, 05:12:50 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 13, 2013, 05:15:20 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 13, 2013, 05:16:15 pm
Well, one of them is almost certainly dying. Maybe. Possibly. Then again, considering who is writing this...
he did say if they ever met again it was probably so he could die in a dramatic scene to provide a reason for him to get revenge.
Post by: Remuthra on November 13, 2013, 05:19:36 pm
Ahahaha. I have to admit I saw that coming.Indeed.
Post by: Xantalos on November 13, 2013, 05:20:00 pm
Which is exactly what Tarquin wants!Well, one of them is almost certainly dying. Maybe. Possibly. Then again, considering who is writing this...
he did say if they ever met again it was probably so he could die in a dramatic scene to provide a reason for him to get revenge.
Post by: tahujdt on November 13, 2013, 05:22:09 pm
I don't get what hints Elan is talking about.Ahahaha. I have to admit I saw that coming.Indeed.
I do, however, think that a Dashing Swordsman should get heroic banter bonuses when fighting back to back with another DS.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 13, 2013, 05:22:51 pm
Post by: scriver on November 13, 2013, 05:24:21 pm
Could just be he'll be turned undead by Durkon to save him from dying or something.
OoTS:Twilight Edition
I don't think he would pull that one again when he already did with Durkon.
Post by: Lord Shonus on November 13, 2013, 05:35:51 pm
I don't get what hints Elan is talking about.Ahahaha. I have to admit I saw that coming.Indeed.
There actually were several. Tarquin mentioned having pun-dueled before (which suggests that he's fought another DS besides Elan, and Scoundrel's the only one we know to exist.) Both Tarquin and Scoundrel are extremely genre-savvy, and were heavily into the Star Wars reference thing. Elan's mom has many pictures of Scoundrel in her nightstand. There were a few others as well.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 13, 2013, 05:38:52 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on November 13, 2013, 05:43:05 pm
Post by: tahujdt on November 13, 2013, 05:46:31 pm
Ah. Well, there is the fact that the entire reason that his airship is named the Mechane is a play on "Deus ex Machina." (Word of Giant).I didn't catch that bit. That... is hilariously foresighted of him.
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 13, 2013, 06:13:29 pm
I must admit, I didn't notice any hints whatsoever.Julio gave the biggest one:
"If I ever see you again, I'll probably wind up dying in your arms while you swear revenge. So I hope you understand when I say I hope not to see you again."
Post by: FuzzyZergling on November 13, 2013, 06:15:46 pm
Actually, I'd forgotten he'd even existed.
Post by: Darvi on November 13, 2013, 06:21:28 pm
Post by: Pnx on November 13, 2013, 06:21:43 pm
EDIT: Also, I'm going to make some predictions here. Tarquin strikes down Scoundral, Ben Kinobi style while the team escapes onto the airship. I'm guessing Scoundral probably fully expects to die in this encounter given what he said last time, and his motivations are probably some mix of "I couldn't refuse the call", "It's how I would want to die anyway", and either "I can just be resurrected anyway" or more likely, "I'm getting old, I don't have much time left".
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 13, 2013, 06:26:47 pm
Elan is more sneaky than first perceived.
Theory:
The Psion is a huge fan of Julio, her kid could even be his; she cashes in the favor Tarquin gave her a couple pages ago to let Julio and the Order leave. Elan's been planning this for some time, apparently rounding up whoever can help him and foil his dad's plans. The 'fight' ending in everyone talking like reasonable adults is exactly the sort of narrative defying stunt that would drive his father insane.
Unsure where Durkon fits in this, but Elan's plan didn't factor in him becoming a vampire.
Post by: Remalle on November 13, 2013, 06:50:20 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 13, 2013, 07:07:22 pm
Actually, not really, since Julio was a Deus ex Machina the first time we met him, too.Ah. Well, there is the fact that the entire reason that his airship is named the Mechane is a play on "Deus ex Machina." (Word of Giant).I didn't catch that bit. That... is hilariously foresighted of him.
Post by: misko27 on November 13, 2013, 07:15:15 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on November 13, 2013, 07:42:38 pm
Doesn't mean that he wasn't already planning this. Durkon's vampirization was planned since strip #4, and the entire reason Malack existed was to vamp him.Actually, not really, since Julio was a Deus ex Machina the first time we met him, too.Ah. Well, there is the fact that the entire reason that his airship is named the Mechane is a play on "Deus ex Machina." (Word of Giant).I didn't catch that bit. That... is hilariously foresighted of him.
Post by: Kydrasz on November 13, 2013, 07:45:23 pm
Anyway does anyone have an idea on how much hit dice Elan has left?
Post by: Lord Shonus on November 13, 2013, 07:54:31 pm
As far as hit points go, a safe estimate is that he has between 60-100 HP at full health. Tarquin is likely to be able to dish out huge amounts of damage, but likely kept it under 50 to avoid the massive damage rule. So 10-60 remaining is quite likely.
(Note: not my analysis. Cribbed from the official forum)
Post by: misko27 on November 13, 2013, 09:35:35 pm
Poor Julio, going to die. But technically, his dying gives Elan the motivation to swear revenge, so, Everyone wins? Tarquin will be pleases at least.
Also, imagine if Laurin just disabled him instantly. The anti-climax would be tastable.
Post by: Elephant Parade on November 14, 2013, 01:02:26 am
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 14, 2013, 02:41:50 am
Hindsight is D20-20.Ftfy.
Post by: Tiruin on November 14, 2013, 05:27:50 am
Needless to say, I really expect a surprise later on.
Post by: i2amroy on November 14, 2013, 01:32:48 pm
That would be horrible unless you had some serious bonuses to your roll somewhere, I mean that would mean only a natural 20 would have any chance of success, what with the range of returns being -19 to 0 :P.Hindsight is D20-20.Ftfy.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on November 14, 2013, 01:38:32 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on November 14, 2013, 02:04:59 pm
Post by: i2amroy on November 14, 2013, 02:20:30 pm
Durkon still has a resurrection spell left, right? And enough diamond dust to cast it?He does, doesn't he! You know with the right rule combination they could probably have Durkon resurrect himself, though I doubt they'd do that as it would totally invalidate the whole "vampire" thing. :P
For those that are interested what you do is have a wizard work together with the cleric to use the contingency spell set to activate a resurrection spell (either in a few minutes, on death/destruction, whatever). Then you have the undead cleric destroy himself, thus removing the "can't revive undead creatures without destroying them" rule. Bam! Contingency activates and revives the cleric.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 14, 2013, 04:39:46 pm
Post by: Sensei on November 14, 2013, 04:53:01 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 14, 2013, 04:56:59 pm
Post by: misko27 on November 14, 2013, 07:25:04 pm
I'm wondering how much Xykon has accomplished since we last saw him. I mean, he was heading to Kraagor's gate, and he will have a much easier time with the dungeon then the Order would have had.
Spoiler: Theory about the last gate (click to show/hide)
Post by: scriver on November 14, 2013, 07:47:51 pm
Post by: Darvi on November 14, 2013, 08:03:43 pm
Post by: Tiruin on November 14, 2013, 08:43:14 pm
The MitD will turn out to be the Snarl or something.If so, then my appreciation for the Snarl has gone up 500%.
It's cute.
Post by: Xantalos on November 14, 2013, 08:45:08 pm
Post by: Tiruin on November 14, 2013, 08:58:25 pm
Still I like that concept.
Post by: Xantalos on November 14, 2013, 09:00:31 pm
Post by: OREOSOME on November 14, 2013, 09:02:21 pm
Post by: Darvi on November 14, 2013, 09:04:50 pm
TARRASQUE, maybe?Frankly, I'd be disappointed if it was something as obvious (and French).
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 14, 2013, 09:09:53 pm
I mean, we can discuss it here, but the OP of that thread already has All the Info (TM), so no point restating it.
Post by: Elephant Parade on November 14, 2013, 09:12:25 pm
Yeah, there's a Great Big Discussion thread on it. Here you go. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=293047)
I mean, we can discuss it here, but the OP of that thread already has All the Info (TM), so no point restating it.
Except for the fact that this is a different forum and all.
Edit: Also, the quote about Xykon finding it ugly makes me suspect that it's something Xykon would dislike; i.e., something semi-angelic.
Post by: misko27 on November 14, 2013, 09:39:19 pm
The MitD will turn out to be the Snarl or something.Actually the OotS forum has stats for the Snarl
Quote
HP: Lots.Alternatively
Armor Class: Can't touch this.
Saving Throws: Yes.
Attack: Successful - undoes target.
Challenge Rating: Too high.
Quote
It devours 1d4 investigators per round.
He doesn't like living biology that attractive in general.Yeah, there's a Great Big Discussion thread on it. Here you go. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=293047)
I mean, we can discuss it here, but the OP of that thread already has All the Info (TM), so no point restating it.
Except for the fact that this is a different forum and all.
Edit: Also, the quote about Xykon finding it ugly makes me suspect that it's something Xykon would dislike; i.e., something semi-angelic.
Post by: Evil Knievel on November 15, 2013, 06:23:20 am
... until Zykon is destroyed...
Seems like, you have connected two bits with that spelling: Zykon's personality is so much like Ziltoid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUcmBI1D4lg)'s.
Post by: scrdest on November 15, 2013, 04:31:29 pm
... until Zykon is destroyed...
Seems like, you have connected two bits with that spelling: Zykon's personality is so much like Ziltoid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUcmBI1D4lg)'s.
URGH. NOW I WILL NEVER GET THE CONNECTION OUT OF MY HEEEEEEAD!
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 15, 2013, 05:08:55 pm
My mind is blown with the force of a thousand Xykons. You could probably through in something about party dynamics in there, but it's a good theorySpoiler: Theory about the last gate (click to show/hide)
Post by: Nightscar982 on November 15, 2013, 05:38:34 pm
Because that came totally out of the blue for me.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on November 15, 2013, 05:39:27 pm
Post by: Tiruin on November 16, 2013, 03:36:08 am
Did anyone actually see the events of #930 coming? at all?I truly remember the guy--maybe partly because I'm re-reading the thing every month at significant points in the story which attract me--but see it coming?
Because that came totally out of the blue for me.
Nope.
That was some subtle wordplay done by Elan back there. Some really subtle bardic wordplay there.
Very smooth.
Post by: Akura on November 16, 2013, 11:55:46 am
Hindsight is 20-20.And foresight is 50/50.
This is something I didn't see coming, but, when you think about it, really really should have.
Post by: Kydrasz on November 16, 2013, 05:43:31 pm
Post by: Nightscar982 on November 17, 2013, 04:51:56 am
Well, we know what's up next :P
Post by: FuzzyZergling on November 18, 2013, 05:21:28 pm
Julio, from what I've heard so far, does indeed have superior puns.
Post by: Remalle on November 18, 2013, 06:33:28 pm
Post by: Remuthra on November 18, 2013, 06:34:57 pm
Oh man, this is edge-of-the-carpet action right here.Fixed.
Post by: Lich180 on November 18, 2013, 06:38:55 pm
Post by: Remuthra on November 18, 2013, 06:41:03 pm
Julio's puns are just... amazing.That's the power of an epic level Dashing Swordsman.
Post by: Kydrasz on November 18, 2013, 06:43:19 pm
Edit: Vampire Durkon is really scary when it turns out his life is on the line. Wonder how he reacts to not being able to enjoy beer anymore.
Post by: Xantalos on November 18, 2013, 06:50:32 pm
Wow did anyone else catch the double-meaning in Julio's pun at the end there?...
Yes.
Post by: Skyrunner on November 18, 2013, 09:27:45 pm
Post by: Elephant Parade on November 18, 2013, 09:28:13 pm
I find myself checking updated topics instead of giantitp for updates...Same here.
Post by: Darvi on November 18, 2013, 09:37:22 pm
Post by: misko27 on November 18, 2013, 10:08:08 pm
The same.I find myself checking updated topics instead of giantitp for updates...Same here.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 18, 2013, 10:11:59 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 18, 2013, 10:16:39 pm
Post by: Tiruin on November 18, 2013, 10:21:10 pm
I find myself checking updated topics instead of giantitp for updates...You can trust the efficiency of the people here. First-hand quality news straight from your fellow Bay12ers. :D
Same here.
...Also HAH. Called it! Originality (or..parodying cliches) is what I was expecting!
Post by: Furtuka on November 20, 2013, 06:12:34 pm
Post by: Remalle on November 20, 2013, 06:19:41 pm
Edit: also, bearded Durkon bat.
Post by: Tiruin on November 20, 2013, 06:21:42 pm
I wonder how V would've worked with it in the earlier strips, as it was always beside her then?
Post by: Helgoland on November 20, 2013, 06:37:25 pm
Post by: Remuthra on November 20, 2013, 06:38:43 pm
Yup, Julio's done for.Don't count on it. No plot structure can plan for shenanigans. Resurrection probably wouldn't be allowed, but what about time travel?
Post by: Elephant Parade on November 20, 2013, 06:48:30 pm
Or, y'know, him just flying to the airship.Yup, Julio's done for.Don't count on it. No plot structure can plan for shenanigans. Resurrection probably wouldn't be allowed, but what about time travel?
Post by: Helgoland on November 20, 2013, 06:52:56 pm
And they just leave Tarquin standing there? Unlikely.Or, y'know, him just flying to the airship.Yup, Julio's done for.Don't count on it. No plot structure can plan for shenanigans. Resurrection probably wouldn't be allowed, but what about time travel?
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 20, 2013, 06:57:41 pm
I don't know, leaving Tarquin friendless, injured, and alone in a desert amongst the corpses of his plot twist division would be a decent way to defeat him. It's empty, the exact opposite of what he wants.And they just leave Tarquin standing there? Unlikely.Or, y'know, him just flying to the airship.Yup, Julio's done for.Don't count on it. No plot structure can plan for shenanigans. Resurrection probably wouldn't be allowed, but what about time travel?
Post by: Lord Shonus on November 20, 2013, 07:01:49 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 20, 2013, 07:26:42 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on November 20, 2013, 07:45:05 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 20, 2013, 07:45:36 pm
No she isn't. She teleported away after getting energy drained by Durkon.
You can see her in the background, though. She's not that far off.
Probably too far to do anything, though.
Post by: Lord Shonus on November 20, 2013, 07:52:00 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 20, 2013, 07:59:37 pm
Post by: Remuthra on November 20, 2013, 08:04:38 pm
Huh, when ddid it update?You expected it to be bumped without an update?
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 20, 2013, 08:07:10 pm
Post by: Furtuka on November 20, 2013, 08:08:32 pm
Post by: tahujdt on November 20, 2013, 08:16:52 pm
Post by: Remuthra on November 20, 2013, 08:24:24 pm
Post by: scriver on November 20, 2013, 09:10:57 pm
What's a Chaos Sabre supposed to do, anyway?
Bonuses and/or extra damage to Lawful creatures, I'd guess.
Post by: Xantalos on November 20, 2013, 09:19:56 pm
What's a Chaos Sabre supposed to do, anyway?Piss off the Emprah? Wait wrong setting.
Post by: Remuthra on November 20, 2013, 09:22:53 pm
Heh, I found the best recommendation for Soulstorm was exactly that.What's a Chaos Sabre supposed to do, anyway?Piss off the Emprah? Wait wrong setting.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 20, 2013, 10:31:03 pm
Post by: Tiruin on November 20, 2013, 10:46:31 pm
An hour ago twas the updateI still see the last (where it ends with the raven and the lizard as the last panel).
..Am I missing something?
Post by: FuzzyZergling on November 20, 2013, 10:51:45 pm
Nope, that's the current one.An hour ago twas the updateI still see the last (where it ends with the raven and the lizard as the last panel).
..Am I missing something?
Post by: lemon10 on November 20, 2013, 11:34:35 pm
So. Ehr. Does Baneful Polymorph have a time limit?Its permanent. The spell description doesn't actually cover how you would go about dispelling it, but the consensus *seems* to be that you can use dispel magic. It would take a couple of casts for Var to beat the casters level, but s/he should be able to do it eventually.
Post by: Skyrunner on November 21, 2013, 12:08:03 am
What's a Chaos Sabre supposed to do, anyway?I think it's the counterpart of good/evil, axiomatic/chaotic.
Post by: Bauglir on November 21, 2013, 12:48:21 am
Yup, exactly. As it's permanent duration, the spell effect is ongoing, making it vulnerable to dispel magic, antimagic field, and the like.So. Ehr. Does Baneful Polymorph have a time limit?Its permanent. The spell description doesn't actually cover how you would go about dispelling it, but the consensus *seems* to be that you can use dispel magic. It would take a couple of casts for Var to beat the casters level, but s/he should be able to do it eventually.
Post by: Tiruin on November 21, 2013, 01:57:29 am
Meaning...a bonus to hit/damage for Chaotic-aligned wielders and a penalty to Lawful-aligned defenders? I saw those things [Chaos as a prefix as an enchantment] somewhere..Incursion RL I think?What's a Chaos Sabre supposed to do, anyway?I think it's the counterpart of good/evil, axiomatic/chaotic.
Tarquin is Lawful Evil
[GOOD_FATHER_FIGURE] is Chaotic Good.
Post by: Akura on November 23, 2013, 11:47:07 am
Anarchic weapons bypass damage reduction -/chaos, deal 2d6 extra damage to lawfuls, and bestow a constant negative level to a lawful who wields it.Meaning...a bonus to hit/damage for Chaotic-aligned wielders and a penalty to Lawful-aligned defenders? I saw those things [Chaos as a prefix as an enchantment] somewhere..Incursion RL I think?What's a Chaos Sabre supposed to do, anyway?I think it's the counterpart of good/evil, axiomatic/chaotic.
Tarquin is Lawful Evil
[GOOD_FATHER_FIGURE] is Chaotic Good.
And if I recall (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0392.html), Julio gave Elan a +3 Keen rapier, which should imply that the weapon Julio is even better.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 29, 2013, 06:37:00 pm
Post by: Remuthra on November 29, 2013, 06:41:13 pm
Also, story trope flaunting ahead.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 29, 2013, 06:46:25 pm
That was unusually punctual. It wasn't up just a few minutes ago when I started reading through some old strips.Yeah, it really depends what I'm doing. If I'm bored with nothing to do, I tend to check the giantitp site more frequently.
Also, story trope flaunting ahead.
Post by: Nightscar982 on November 29, 2013, 06:50:02 pm
Post by: Helgoland on November 29, 2013, 08:18:24 pm
Post by: Tiruin on November 29, 2013, 08:53:24 pm
*Distraction, ahoy!*
...What is the range between Julio and Laurin?
Post by: misko27 on November 29, 2013, 09:02:45 pm
Post by: Remalle on November 29, 2013, 10:01:21 pm
Edit: oh, and the sky is now noticeably darker. Relevant?
Post by: Darvi on November 30, 2013, 03:28:30 am
Post by: Akura on November 30, 2013, 11:34:15 am
Edit: oh, and the sky is now noticeably darker. Relevant?
They've been fighting for how many hours now? Plus several hours inside a pyramid, much of which was spent inside a phantasm trap.
It's actually been getting slowly darker since 925. The sun is certainly much lower as well. Good news is that Durkulon will be healing everyone up soon.
Post by: scriver on November 30, 2013, 06:30:29 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on November 30, 2013, 07:46:25 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 04, 2013, 12:49:50 pm
Where are they off to now?
Post by: Remuthra on December 04, 2013, 03:09:18 pm
And also that Tomb in the north where the dwarf party member died, and/or back to the Azure Guard Camp.
Post by: i2amroy on December 04, 2013, 04:01:16 pm
Spoiler: Prologue book info (click to show/hide)
Post by: Remuthra on December 04, 2013, 04:03:39 pm
Post by: Oliolli on December 07, 2013, 10:53:42 am
(casterfight)
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on December 07, 2013, 11:16:11 am
(Also, casterfight)
Post by: Akura on December 07, 2013, 12:29:35 pm
What would be the best spells to use against an overpowered Psion? Anti-Magic Field would cut off both V's spells and Laurin's psionics(as well as Tarquin's magic items), but there's still Tarquin, who's a melee fighter. And I don't think that's a spell V would use anyway. I don't think V has another Prismatic Spray, either.
(casterfight!)
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 07, 2013, 12:33:19 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 07, 2013, 12:38:16 pm
Post by: Akura on December 07, 2013, 01:00:42 pm
Post by: andrea on December 07, 2013, 01:12:04 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on December 07, 2013, 01:34:50 pm
I think the assumption is that his party is 20th level. The Order of the Stick is minimum 13th level(Vaarsuvius anyway, as Prismatic Spray is 7th level magic), with Roy being one, possibly two levels below everyone else due to having died and stayed dead for a year while everyone else was still fighting/gaining XP. Belkar might a be level down since he got drained a level by a wight during the Azure City battle, though that was immediately after gaining one, so probably not. Durkon may or may not be down a level, since I don't know if you lose a level at the moment of death or the moment of resurrection, or what the effects of being vamped in the meantime do to your HD.
If Team Tarquin has the same effective level as Malack did, they're around 21st level, minimum. Malack crafted his own staff, which requires Cleric level 12. He had 9 levels of Level adjustment due to the vampire template and racially from being a lizardfolk. Meanwhile, Tarquin has shown evidence of possessing the Epic feat Infinite Deflection, which he may, however, have gained from an item.
As for Durkon, level loss is a function of lower-grade Ressurection spells, not dying. The effect of losing his CON and his HD moving to d12s was, by RAW, immediate.
Post by: Remalle on December 07, 2013, 02:01:48 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 07, 2013, 02:31:34 pm
Damn, this just keeps getting worse.(Caster fight!)
(Inb4 surprise Xykon!)
Post by: Remuthra on December 07, 2013, 02:41:19 pm
(/Linear Guild Revenge)Damn, this just keeps getting worse.(Caster fight!)
(Inb4 surprise Xykon!)
(Casterfightcasterfight)
Post by: Taricus on December 07, 2013, 03:07:28 pm
Damn, this just keeps getting worse.HERESY! This just gets better.
/me waves a team Tarquin flag proudly.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on December 07, 2013, 04:11:29 pm
Post by: Skyrunner on December 07, 2013, 08:19:50 pm
Tarquin is just digging deeper.
He's going off into the deep edge!
/pun
Post by: DJ on December 07, 2013, 11:03:36 pm
Post by: Xantalos on December 08, 2013, 12:23:09 am
Post by: misko27 on December 11, 2013, 12:40:06 am
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 11, 2013, 08:57:58 am
Post by: Akura on December 14, 2013, 11:49:37 am
(/Linear Guild Revenge)Only survivor of the Linear Guild is still banished for at least 12 hours.
The next person to jump (back) into the fight would probably be Roy, depending on how long it takes to drink a dozen or so potions of healing.
Truly she'll be asking for one hell of a favor in return. I wonder what it'll be."Stay tuned and find out"?
Hell, the only reason she's doing anything at all is for this favor.
Post by: Remuthra on December 14, 2013, 11:51:04 am
Never stopped the plot before. Demon invasion?(/Linear Guild Revenge)Only survivor of the Linear Guild is still banished for at least 12 hours.
Post by: Sensei on December 14, 2013, 05:14:44 pm
The next person to jump (back) into the fight would probably be Roy, depending on how long it takes to drink a dozen or so potions of healing.72 seconds. :V
Post by: Helgoland on December 15, 2013, 09:13:01 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 15, 2013, 10:20:40 am
Post by: Remuthra on December 15, 2013, 10:30:49 am
Post by: Remalle on December 15, 2013, 03:19:23 pm
Post by: Remuthra on December 15, 2013, 03:26:38 pm
Post by: misko27 on December 15, 2013, 05:03:14 pm
A murderous rampage against whom? The only people she can take down on her own are peasants.She's fought alongside the Linear Guild pretty well, and she fought against Roy fine way back in Cliffport, and presumably she's much stronger now.
So whose side will Sabine be on when she comes back? It would make sense for her to team up with the OotS guys to get back at Tarquin...I think, in the grand tradition of the Yankee shirts I see in the Bronx during the summer, she is "On her side and anyone's side who is currently fighting Tarquin".
Post by: i2amroy on December 19, 2013, 04:28:38 pm
Post by: Remuthra on December 19, 2013, 04:30:57 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 19, 2013, 04:34:29 pm
New order of the stick! (Oooooo, caster fight!). That said if that bauble that got snagged is what I think it is (a psicrystal) I could see this coming back to haunt them later.
Can she teleport to her psicrystal or something then? I have no knowledge whatsoever of psionics in d&d beyond it uses power points.
Post by: Remuthra on December 19, 2013, 04:35:26 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on December 19, 2013, 04:37:52 pm
That said, it's MUCH more likely that Blackwing got one of the Ioun Stones.
Actually, on second thought, It's certain. Laurin has 3 Ioun Stones orbiting her head in the last panel of Page 1, and two after the attack.
Post by: Lord Shonus on December 19, 2013, 04:43:13 pm
Post by: Taricus on December 19, 2013, 04:58:30 pm
Post by: Remuthra on December 19, 2013, 05:02:14 pm
Post by: lemon10 on December 19, 2013, 05:18:56 pm
It can't be a bead of force, because those are black. Not to mention how stupid it would be to have three of those floating about her head.
It could be a Ioun stone though, because the wiki doesn't appear to specify the shape. Unless I missed some D&D more minor thing that is.
Post by: Taricus on December 19, 2013, 05:29:06 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on December 19, 2013, 05:32:59 pm
Post by: Helgoland on December 19, 2013, 08:15:25 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on December 19, 2013, 08:17:15 pm
Post by: Remuthra on December 19, 2013, 08:18:24 pm
Damnit, Helgoland! Faking me out with double features.
Post by: Helgoland on December 19, 2013, 08:25:28 pm
Post by: scriver on December 19, 2013, 08:32:41 pm
Also, the devil(s) always get their way.
Post by: Helgoland on December 19, 2013, 08:37:41 pm
About Sabine: So she helped in defeating Tarquin, essentially being on the OotS side for now - seemms reasonable. My prediction is that she'll pretty much drop out of the story once he's done for.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 19, 2013, 08:57:42 pm
My point is that a long term arrangement between the Order and Sabine is not exactly out of the question, more so if Team Tarquin isn't annihilated. And of course, nobody likes being consigned to eternal oblivion, not even devils.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on December 19, 2013, 10:34:27 pm
Post by: Darvi on December 20, 2013, 12:29:23 am
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 20, 2013, 12:32:27 am
Post by: Darvi on December 20, 2013, 12:44:56 am
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 20, 2013, 12:50:31 am
Post by: armeggedonCounselor on December 20, 2013, 03:15:09 am
Post by: scrdest on December 20, 2013, 05:43:00 am
We don't really have enough experience with Durkula's personality, but he does seem pretty ruthless compared to his pre-vampirization self, he claims to be about as evil as Belkar, and oh yeah, his existence is powered by Evil.
It's not even about his morality; I recall an argument that alignments are not descriptors assigned to people who exhibit behavior patterns, but energy forms. So, you can have mindless undead be Evil even when they cannot actually choose between Good and Evil, because their Evil classification is because they are powered by negative energy.
That also explains how you can have Knight Templar paladins remain LG.
Of course, morally evil people and deities are Evil, but that might be explained by the opposing natures of positive and negative energy - Evil hurts Good and heals Evil and vice versa, so entities aiming to destroy or otherwise harm life as-is would be aligned with negative energy because negative energy is what destroys or otherwise harms life.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on December 20, 2013, 06:04:09 am
Post by: Lord Shonus on December 20, 2013, 04:48:23 pm
Quote from: The Giant;15060436
You know, you're right. I have gone too far this time. I'll stop making new strips now. Everyone, go home. The comic is over. My bad, I went too far.
:smallannoyed:
Tell you what, you read the vampire template entry, particularly the part where it explicitly says that vampire clerics can still cast spells (http://"http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm") just with different domain access, and you tell me where it says anything about gods or temporary loss of access there. It doesn't. Vampire clerics do not need to worship a god to cast spells, because NO cleric needs a god to cast spells. The rules specifically allow for "non-theistic" clerics, and explains exactly what the effects of turning into a vampire has on a cleric: Rebuke instead of Turn, different domains. Period.
The only thing worse than the usual irrelevant rules pedantry is incorrect irrelevant rules pedantry.
The absolute only canon statement about Durkon's post-vampirization alignment is "No more evil than Belkar." While the obvious interpretation is that he's now Evil, but not Belkar evil; the statement is quite literally true about every single character in the Order, including pre-vamping Durkon. Thus, we don't know what the current alignment is.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 20, 2013, 05:36:00 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on December 20, 2013, 05:49:00 pm
My take on his answer is that he himself isn't sure. Note that he didn't realize that he was going to spontaneously inflict wounds instead of cure wounds. He'd only had free will as a vampire for an extremely limited time at that point (and currently, for that matter.)
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 21, 2013, 01:04:36 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: lemon10 on December 21, 2013, 04:16:15 pm
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on December 21, 2013, 11:09:18 pm
Post by: Akura on December 23, 2013, 01:10:41 pm
Also, I just looked up the spell Brain Spider (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/spells/brainSpider.htm), for which the material component is "a spider of any size or kind", and it doesn't matter if it's alive or dead, just as long as it has eight legs. Does that mean you could instakill some kind of giant spider by using it as a material component for this spell? Not that it matters, given that it's an 8th-level spell, and anyone who can cast it could probably demolish any kind of spider with far less.
Post by: Xantalos on December 23, 2013, 01:17:29 pm
Well I know how I'm killing Lloth next campaign.
Post by: LeoLeonardoIII on December 23, 2013, 01:24:15 pm
Then again, knowing 3E, it's probably either a barely-understandable screed in the back written by a madman, or using vague language that could have a dozen reasonable interpretations, or not present at all.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on December 23, 2013, 02:02:25 pm
Do psions gain any benefit from orange Ioun stones(+1 effective caster level, and the one that Blackwing took)?In a world with psionics-magic transparency (as this caster fight shows OotStopia to be), it provides +1 manifester level to a psion.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on January 04, 2014, 03:43:46 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: FuzzyZergling on January 04, 2014, 03:45:08 am
A suitable mix of drama and humor.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 04, 2014, 03:58:36 am
Post by: Gamerlord on January 04, 2014, 04:23:05 am
Post by: Xantalos on January 04, 2014, 04:28:05 am
Though Tarquin's gonna end up coming back and likely fucking up the plot, having gained a higher meta-awareness than he already did.
Just calling it now.
Post by: scriver on January 04, 2014, 04:33:15 am
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 04, 2014, 06:12:42 am
Up-dot.DING DING DINGSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: scrdest on January 04, 2014, 06:17:02 am
That was a pretty great ending.
That was a pretty great terrible ending.
Post by: tahujdt on January 04, 2014, 09:18:40 am
Quote
You'll live.Ironic echo, methinks?
Quote from: Elan
I'm not a twin anymore.Well, that plot device is over. Assuming Nale doesn't come back from the dead.
Post by: Gamerlord on January 04, 2014, 09:20:33 am
You're forgetting he's gonna end up in hell and the moment the succubus what's-her-name finds a way to do so she'll get him ressurrected.Quote from: ElanI'm not a twin anymore.Well, that plot device is over. Assuming Nale doesn't come back from the dead.
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 04, 2014, 10:36:36 am
Post by: Akura on January 04, 2014, 12:10:19 pm
Would require True Resurrection, since his corpse was disintegrated and the dust blown into the desert wind. The only one I can think of capable of that spell is Redcloak.You're forgetting he's gonna end up in hell and the moment the succubus what's-her-name finds a way to do so she'll get him ressurrected.Quote from: ElanI'm not a twin anymore.Well, that plot device is over. Assuming Nale doesn't come back from the dead.
Also, that was a pretty terrificible ending.
Quote from: Tarquin
Where's the growth? You didn't lose anything! Nothing has changed!Wrong on all three. Elan most certainly become more mature when he realized what his father was. He lost his brother. And Durkon changed into a vampire.
Post by: Remuthra on January 04, 2014, 12:11:34 pm
Post by: Akura on January 04, 2014, 01:58:11 pm
Quote from: A quote from the GitP thread about this comic(I don't have an account there)
Guess no feather fall for Tarquin - he survived because he's higher level than Roy was and the sand is slightly softer? Or was it because Roy was more injured when he fell?
Didn't Roy take a Meteor Swarm and a Finger of Death or two, both to the face, before falling off that dragon?
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on January 04, 2014, 03:58:26 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 04, 2014, 04:02:32 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 04, 2014, 04:39:58 pm
Spoiler: Tarquin plays Mass Effect 3 (click to show/hide)
Post by: Taricus on January 04, 2014, 04:47:23 pm
Hope Elan is ready for that backlash then though :P
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on January 04, 2014, 04:47:40 pm
Post by: scrdest on January 04, 2014, 05:02:06 pm
You're forgetting he's gonna end up in hell and the moment the succubus what's-her-name finds a way to do so she'll get him ressurrected.Quote from: ElanI'm not a twin anymore.Well, that plot device is over. Assuming Nale doesn't come back from the dead.
Knowing Giant's propensity for creating 'Woah, didn't see that coming' moments, I half-expect Sabine to fall for Elan as a substitute.
Post by: Xantalos on January 04, 2014, 05:05:21 pm
Nah. If something like that happens it'll be Tarquin.You're forgetting he's gonna end up in hell and the moment the succubus what's-her-name finds a way to do so she'll get him ressurrected.Quote from: ElanI'm not a twin anymore.Well, that plot device is over. Assuming Nale doesn't come back from the dead.
Knowing Giant's propensity for creating 'Woah, didn't see that coming' moments, I half-expect Sabine to fall for Elan as a substitute.
Post by: Remalle on January 04, 2014, 05:29:39 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 04, 2014, 05:38:21 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on January 04, 2014, 06:13:32 pm
Would require True Resurrection, since his corpse was disintegrated and the dust blown into the desert wind. The only one I can think of capable of that spell is Redcloak.I've got it. Sabine is going to join the Order on a semi-permanent basis so that either she can force Redcloak to True Resurrect Nale, or get Durkon strong enough to do it himself.
Post by: FuzzyZergling on January 04, 2014, 08:27:05 pm
Tarquin just needed to spend more time doing narrative writing and less time browsing tvtropes.Or more time browsing tvTropes.
Post by: misko27 on January 05, 2014, 05:40:50 pm
Which would, among other things, put the Goods of the Order into a minority, deciding vote Vaarsuvius. But Haley would never go for it.Would require True Resurrection, since his corpse was disintegrated and the dust blown into the desert wind. The only one I can think of capable of that spell is Redcloak.I've got it. Sabine is going to join the Order on a semi-permanent basis so that either she can force Redcloak to True Resurrect Nale, or get Durkon strong enough to do it himself.
Post by: Helgoland on January 05, 2014, 08:50:18 pm
She could be convinced, or pressured into it... Fact is, there no longer is any reason for Sabine to oppose the Order.Which would, among other things, put the Goods of the Order into a minority, deciding vote Vaarsuvius. But Haley would never go for it.Would require True Resurrection, since his corpse was disintegrated and the dust blown into the desert wind. The only one I can think of capable of that spell is Redcloak.I've got it. Sabine is going to join the Order on a semi-permanent basis so that either she can force Redcloak to True Resurrect Nale, or get Durkon strong enough to do it himself.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on January 05, 2014, 09:05:55 pm
Post by: Akura on January 06, 2014, 11:58:09 am
You're forgetting he's gonna end up in hell and the moment the succubus what's-her-name finds a way to do so she'll get him ressurrected.Quote from: ElanI'm not a twin anymore.Well, that plot device is over. Assuming Nale doesn't come back from the dead.
Knowing Giant's propensity for creating 'Woah, didn't see that coming' moments, I half-expect Sabine to fall for Elan as a substitute.
If that happens, I figure this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0794.html) will come back to bite Elan in the ass, with regards to Haley.
Post by: Digital Hellhound on January 06, 2014, 12:12:55 pm
Post by: misko27 on January 06, 2014, 12:37:01 pm
Except that they hate her, with the possible exception of Vaarsuvius (it is possible to hate her and still use her info), and she has no love for them. She also is required to follow the will of her superiors, who presumably have larger concerns then resurrecting Nale.She could be convinced, or pressured into it... Fact is, there no longer is any reason for Sabine to oppose the Order.Which would, among other things, put the Goods of the Order into a minority, deciding vote Vaarsuvius. But Haley would never go for it.Would require True Resurrection, since his corpse was disintegrated and the dust blown into the desert wind. The only one I can think of capable of that spell is Redcloak.I've got it. Sabine is going to join the Order on a semi-permanent basis so that either she can force Redcloak to True Resurrect Nale, or get Durkon strong enough to do it himself.
Oh wait Giant Quote coming:
Quote
From a storytelling point of view, the "Why didn't this person do X?" questions are sort of a waste of time. They didn't do that because something stopped them, obviously. Does it matter what that something was, really? Dragons don't have access to 17th level clerics because they just don't. That's not the way the world works. Assume, if you want, that she asked the Oracle, and the Oracle said there isn't anyone who would be willing to cast it for a black dragon.
And more to the point, True Resurrection is a terrible, narrative-wrecking spell that should not exist, as it has no real purpose for players who die in battle (as they can almost always be returned via simple Resurrection) and only ever comes in to play to undo plot points. I prefer to simply treat it as "not available" to everyone, and I don't want to waste any panel time explaining why.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on January 06, 2014, 12:39:54 pm
Post by: Skyrunner on January 07, 2014, 01:05:57 am
Post by: Bauglir on January 07, 2014, 01:56:47 am
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 07, 2014, 06:58:18 pm
U wotTarquin just needed to spend more time doing narrative writing and less time browsing tvtropes.Or more time browsing tvTropes.
Post by: Oliolli on January 12, 2014, 05:40:07 am
Post by: Helgoland on January 12, 2014, 10:00:15 am
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 12, 2014, 10:02:04 am
Edit: Never mind, found it. Button didn't work. Strange thing.
Post by: Helgoland on January 12, 2014, 10:04:31 am
Or did I give a false alarm again? This would be so much easier if the title was always updated properly...
Post by: Remuthra on January 12, 2014, 10:04:53 am
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 12, 2014, 10:06:05 am
No. 937 just came out, didn't it?It did. The buttons just didn't work for me.
Or did I give a false alarm again? This would be so much easier if the title was always updated properly...
Post by: RedWarrior0 on January 12, 2014, 03:33:56 pm
Post by: misko27 on January 12, 2014, 03:34:39 pm
There is indeed a new comic. Fairly meh, nothing of note happens.But it explains why nothing of note is happening.
Post by: Lich180 on January 13, 2014, 11:30:32 pm
Post by: Akura on January 14, 2014, 11:59:14 am
Quote
It's worth a shot, but I've been doing this more than 30 years and I've never arrived anywhere earlier than the nick of time.
Does this mean they aren't going to reach Xykon until just before they finish their plan?
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 14, 2014, 12:00:39 pm
I think that was the point of the entire page.QuoteIt's worth a shot, but I've been doing this more than 30 years and I've never arrived anywhere earlier than the nick of time.
Does this mean they aren't going to reach Xykon until just before they finish their plan?
Post by: FuzzyZergling on January 14, 2014, 03:46:39 pm
Oh Julio, you're such a scoundrel.
Post by: Remuthra on January 14, 2014, 03:48:47 pm
New page!Fixed.
Oh Julio, you're such a scoundrél.
Post by: Culise on January 14, 2014, 04:08:32 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 14, 2014, 04:20:37 pm
Post by: Remuthra on January 14, 2014, 04:23:15 pm
Post by: scriver on January 14, 2014, 05:24:42 pm
Post by: Remuthra on January 14, 2014, 05:25:46 pm
Order of the Stick 2: Sticking it to the ManThis was going to be my next title :P.
Post by: Helgoland on January 14, 2014, 08:11:32 pm
Post by: tahujdt on January 14, 2014, 08:17:47 pm
Order of the Stick 2: Sticking togetherHe has issues with his dad trying to control his life, right?
Or, for a real world example:
Order of the Stick 2: Minecraft
"Order of the Stick 2: Stick Up for Yourself!"
And that other sequel we all love:
"Order of the Stick II: Histories of Linearism and Adventuring"
Some of the others I thought of while on the pot:
"Order of the Stick 2: Speak softly and carry a big Stick"
"Order of the Stick 2: First The Carrot"
"Order of the Stick 2: Stick with it"
"Order of the Stick 2: The Short End of the Stick" (This should be the title of Belkar's backstory)
"Order of the Stick 2: Sticks and Stones"
"Order of the Stick 2: A Sticky Wicket"
"Order of the Stick 2: Stick To Your, Um, Bows"
EDIT: Ninja'd, but I thought of it first, so there. Nyah.
Post by: Remuthra on January 14, 2014, 08:24:31 pm
Post by: MorleyDev on January 15, 2014, 01:40:11 am
Post by: Bauglir on January 15, 2014, 02:03:45 am
Post by: Akura on January 15, 2014, 01:06:33 pm
EDIT: I just noticed a post on the GitP forum about how Julio's endorsement for a brand of healing potions was essentially saying "Screw clerics, drink a potion!". If that's the case, how'd Julio get a cleric to make a Sending wand?
Post by: Remuthra on January 15, 2014, 02:48:06 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on January 15, 2014, 05:29:16 pm
By the way, is it normal for wands to use divine spells? Because Sending is a 5th-level Sor/Wiz spell, but a 4th-level Cleric spell, and wands are limited to 4th-level spells.
EDIT: I just noticed a post on the GitP forum about how Julio's endorsement for a brand of healing potions was essentially saying "Screw clerics, drink a potion!". If that's the case, how'd Julio get a cleric to make a Sending wand?
You can use any version of a spell to create a wand. IIRC, you can even create wands from odd lists such as Bard or Paladin.
Post by: IronyOwl on January 15, 2014, 09:07:08 pm
Correct. Anything but Wizard or Cleric is relatively rare because they tend to get the best spells earliest for it (and because they're more likely to have item creation feats), but it uses the exact same mechanics.By the way, is it normal for wands to use divine spells? Because Sending is a 5th-level Sor/Wiz spell, but a 4th-level Cleric spell, and wands are limited to 4th-level spells.
EDIT: I just noticed a post on the GitP forum about how Julio's endorsement for a brand of healing potions was essentially saying "Screw clerics, drink a potion!". If that's the case, how'd Julio get a cleric to make a Sending wand?
You can use any version of a spell to create a wand. IIRC, you can even create wands from odd lists such as Bard or Paladin.
In fact, Wands of Cure Light Wounds are actually kind of a staple item for a lot of parties, unless they're using that heal-over-time spell from some source or another (it's in Spell Compendium, but I don't know if that's where it originated or not) that's a little more efficient. Using potions for out of combat healing is actually pretty strange if you've got a cleric or anyone with Use Magic Device.
As for wand sources, you don't need to be BFFs with a cleric to buy a wand made by one. I haven't heard all the juicy details, but you probably also have to do more to enrage all clerics everywhere than advertise something that does something they can do.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 15, 2014, 10:34:56 pm
Post by: Oliolli on January 17, 2014, 05:54:55 am
Post by: Gamerlord on January 17, 2014, 05:55:41 am
Post by: Remalle on January 17, 2014, 12:17:13 pm
Post by: Akura on January 18, 2014, 01:39:31 pm
*If I recall, there was an in-comic argument between Thor and Hel about a dwarf who died of mummy rot, which is a curse treated like a very difficult-to-manage disease, whilst defending an orphanage.
Post by: Karlito on January 18, 2014, 01:42:57 pm
Post by: Oliolli on January 18, 2014, 02:13:50 pm
Splinter from an elm. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0874.html)
Post by: Helgoland on January 18, 2014, 05:20:10 pm
Post by: Lich180 on January 19, 2014, 03:14:56 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2014, 03:24:17 pm
Now I'm probably missing something obvious here, but why is Belkar so against Durkon now? Can;t stand the thought of another token evil teammate?Because Durkon tried killing him and is legitimately a terrifying threat to their party. Don't fuck with vampires - especially Dwarven ones. Their thirst for booze has given them a bloody appetite in the afterlife.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on January 19, 2014, 03:48:10 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2014, 04:13:35 pm
Not to mention that Belkar seems to have a surprising amount of survivor's guilt for a total sociopath.Isn't Belkar a psychopath, not a sociopath?
Post by: scrdest on January 19, 2014, 04:21:20 pm
Not to mention that Belkar seems to have a surprising amount of survivor's guilt for a total sociopath.Isn't Belkar a psychopath, not a sociopath?
Same thing, obsolete terminology. Psychopath/Sociopath is just way easier to say than the proper term, that being Antisocial Personality Disorder.
Post by: Lich180 on January 19, 2014, 06:14:16 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2014, 06:49:39 pm
Durkon was a thrall or mind controlled vampire when he fed on Belkar, and in his right mind (as long as he feeds often) he should be safe to have around, yeah?"Should."
Post by: Akura on January 20, 2014, 02:01:48 pm
Yeah, I find myself almost agreeing with Belkar here. Keeping a stake lodged in him would keep him from being dangerous, since their current arrangement of having him bite Roy and then casting Restoration to undo the damage only works if Durkon actually does it. What's to say he's not lying(remember that vampires gain +4 to Charisma and +8 to Bluff) and decides not to cast Restoration, and instead uses his vampiric gaze to make Roy tell the others he did?Durkon was a thrall or mind controlled vampire when he fed on Belkar, and in his right mind (as long as he feeds often) he should be safe to have around, yeah?"Should."
Post by: Remuthra on January 20, 2014, 02:05:31 pm
What would the point of that be?Yeah, I find myself almost agreeing with Belkar here. Keeping a stake lodged in him would keep him from being dangerous, since their current arrangement of having him bite Roy and then casting Restoration to undo the damage only works if Durkon actually does it. What's to say he's not lying(remember that vampires gain +4 to Charisma and +8 to Bluff) and decides not to cast Restoration, and instead uses his vampiric gaze to make Roy tell the others he did?Durkon was a thrall or mind controlled vampire when he fed on Belkar, and in his right mind (as long as he feeds often) he should be safe to have around, yeah?"Should."
And I believe it was stated that Roy has too high of a Will save to be affected.
Post by: Bauglir on January 20, 2014, 02:08:06 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on January 20, 2014, 02:21:36 pm
Post by: tahujdt on January 20, 2014, 02:43:18 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on January 20, 2014, 03:37:30 pm
The problem with that option it they put a lot at stake by staking their cleric. I mean, they could just keep him in the closet and thaw him out whenever they need him, but that's not really optimal.
fixed.
Post by: Lich180 on January 20, 2014, 04:04:37 pm
Sounds needlessly risky. As Tarquin's friendship with Malack demonstrated, Evil doesn't mean pointlessly malicious to your close friends.
Sure there's risk involved, but so far Durkon has shown to be the same dwarf, just undead and with a new thirst. Doesn't seem like he would turn on his teammates willingly (unless he misses a few feedings)
Post by: scriver on January 20, 2014, 04:45:28 pm
Indeed. Durkon is Lawful Evil, so his having retained loyalty to the Order is hardly surprising. There is still the matter of the nigh-unstoppable abomination that is going to unmake reality if something isn't done, which is hardly conductive to what a Lawful Evil person would want.
And Xykon besides, there's also the Snarl to worry about.
...Wait, that doesn't really work, does it. Anyway, back to Dorfkan - knowing... I actually don't know his name, but knowing ootswriterguy there's bound to be a twist or two about Evildurkon's new Evilagenda coming. I don't doubt for a minute that he's only using the group for his own ends by now, unless he turns out to be the rare honour-above-all kind of LE. But even then he still has to bring great disaster and death to his clan and all that.
Post by: tahujdt on January 20, 2014, 07:23:04 pm
That was the pun.The problem with that option it they put a lot at stake by staking their cleric. I mean, they could just keep him in the closet and thaw him out whenever they need him, but that's not really optimal.
fixed.
Post by: Bauglir on January 21, 2014, 12:27:31 am
Yes, exactly.Sounds needlessly risky. As Tarquin's friendship with Malack demonstrated, Evil doesn't mean pointlessly malicious to your close friends.
Sure there's risk involved, but so far Durkon has shown to be the same dwarf, just undead and with a new thirst. Doesn't seem like he would turn on his teammates willingly (unless he misses a few feedings)
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 21, 2014, 04:14:44 pm
(unless he misses a few feedings)Stake.
Post by: tahujdt on January 22, 2014, 05:23:49 pm
Post by: scriver on January 22, 2014, 05:30:11 pm
Into awesome braids at that.
Post by: Remuthra on January 22, 2014, 05:31:18 pm
Post by: Oliolli on January 25, 2014, 01:10:56 am
Post by: Remalle on January 25, 2014, 01:15:16 am
Another update. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0941.html)Why would you try to hotlink it?
Post by: Oliolli on January 25, 2014, 02:40:29 am
Post by: Remuthra on January 25, 2014, 09:01:10 am
The copypasted version was a bit excessive, though.
Post by: Karlito on January 25, 2014, 11:06:18 am
Hotlink (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inline_linking) to the comic image -> bad
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 25, 2014, 11:42:04 am
Why not?It's a direct link to their website. So everytime someone loads that thread, you use their site's bandwidth to show it to them. Those few views might not be much, but if everyone does that, it adds up and becomes a significant drain for the website.
Post by: Akura on January 25, 2014, 12:45:29 pm
Post by: Elephant Parade on January 25, 2014, 12:59:07 pm
Yeah.Why not?It's a direct link to their website. So everytime someone loads that thread, you use their site's bandwidth to show it to them. Those few views might not be much, but if everyone does that, it adds up and becomes a significant drain for the website.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on January 26, 2014, 02:35:57 pm
Post by: Oliolli on January 27, 2014, 04:10:56 am
Post by: scrdest on January 28, 2014, 04:17:05 pm
Post by: FuzzyZergling on January 28, 2014, 04:18:30 pm
Per-edit: Damnit.
Post by: scrdest on January 28, 2014, 04:21:09 pm
New Comic. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0942.html)
Per-edit: Damnit.
/me levels up!
/me is now a level 17 Thread Ninja.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 28, 2014, 04:26:14 pm
Post by: Remalle on January 28, 2014, 07:04:28 pm
Post by: Xantalos on January 28, 2014, 07:49:36 pm
This might be the greatest webcomic throwback I've ever seen.I still think that one from 8-Bit was better.
/hipster
Post by: Elephant Parade on January 28, 2014, 08:04:50 pm
Agreed.This might be the greatest webcomic throwback I've ever seen.I still think that one from 8-Bit was better.
Post by: misko27 on January 28, 2014, 08:26:21 pm
Oh clearly. But he set that up years in advance.Agreed.This might be the greatest webcomic throwback I've ever seen.I still think that one from 8-Bit was better.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 29, 2014, 02:00:06 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 29, 2014, 09:05:02 am
Post by: misko27 on January 29, 2014, 11:02:19 am
Or he did it retroactively...It's hard to say, but there was a comic around 430 that basically quotes dialogue all the way near 1130, so obviously he is a forward thinker. He also entitled the bigger one "The longest set-up in comic history".
The 8-bit theatre was planned for how long? This seems just like it was added now. Still amusing, but not as grand as 8-bit.2001 to 2010.
Post by: hops on February 01, 2014, 11:05:23 pm
Post by: Remuthra on February 01, 2014, 11:06:45 pm
Post by: tahujdt on February 01, 2014, 11:08:36 pm
I'm still not entirely convinced it's not the salesman who's the son.I LOLed at this.
Post by: ed boy on February 02, 2014, 10:50:15 pm
I'm still not entirely convinced it's not the salesman who's the son.The salesman is the son. Look at the picture on the wall.
Post by: Oliolli on February 05, 2014, 10:34:25 am
Rich is great at plot twists.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on February 05, 2014, 01:15:52 pm
Post by: scriver on February 05, 2014, 07:56:57 pm
Post by: Remuthra on February 05, 2014, 09:09:56 pm
I'm not seeing anything particularly good here. The dramatic voiceover thing was funny, but it wasn't a plot twist.
Post by: misko27 on February 05, 2014, 09:32:50 pm
Post by: Culise on February 05, 2014, 11:15:50 pm
Arborea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arborea_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)) is the plane for Chaotic Goods. That is, when they pass on. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Plane#Standard_D.26D_cosmology)Of course, it's probably worth noting that with the usual implications of touring the afterlife, this is also a world where Planar Shift (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/planeShift.htm) is a viable method of travel. ^_^
Post by: Lord Shonus on February 05, 2014, 11:38:25 pm
Post by: FuzzyZergling on February 10, 2014, 11:57:23 pm
Anybody know who the wizard in Roy's story was?
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on February 10, 2014, 11:59:30 pm
Post by: Furtuka on February 11, 2014, 12:00:54 am
Post by: Gamerlord on February 11, 2014, 12:04:59 am
Post by: Culise on February 15, 2014, 02:06:01 pm
((New comic up))
Post by: Elephant Parade on February 15, 2014, 03:10:37 pm
That's probably not exactly CR-appropriate (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0945.html).Well. This is certainly interesting.
((New comic up))
Post by: Remalle on February 15, 2014, 05:40:45 pm
Post by: darkpaladin109 on February 15, 2014, 06:13:26 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 15, 2014, 06:17:02 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on February 15, 2014, 06:54:46 pm
Post by: OREOSOME on February 15, 2014, 06:58:58 pm
inb4 Laurin is a hollow mind-puppet for the Snarl.inb4 Laurin is rendered completely insane by the fact that she basically read the mind of a god killing abomination.
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 15, 2014, 07:02:02 pm
Half expecting the snarl to wear a fedora now. The internet has done things to my brain.inb4 Laurin is a hollow mind-puppet for the Snarl.inb4 Laurin is rendered completely insane by the fact that she basically read the mind of a god killing abomination.
Post by: Remuthra on February 15, 2014, 09:55:31 pm
Yeeesssss...Half expecting the snarl to wear a fedora now. The internet has done things to my brain.inb4 Laurin is a hollow mind-puppet for the Snarl.inb4 Laurin is rendered completely insane by the fact that she basically read the mind of a god killing abomination.
Post by: IronyOwl on February 15, 2014, 10:45:04 pm
Post by: Xantalos on February 17, 2014, 02:20:24 pm
Post by: Playergamer on February 17, 2014, 02:28:52 pm
Post by: FuzzyZergling on February 18, 2014, 09:17:20 pm
What a twist!
Post by: Xantalos on February 18, 2014, 09:23:52 pm
Quote
March 31st
NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOah well it's not that long of a break
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on February 18, 2014, 09:26:06 pm
*Mars orbit*
Post by: Helgoland on February 18, 2014, 09:43:09 pm
Post by: Playergamer on February 18, 2014, 09:57:10 pm
Who is that?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: GiglameshDespair on February 18, 2014, 10:02:16 pm
New comic. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0946.html)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdhhQhqi_AE
What a twist!
Ok, yeah, that was pretty unexpected.
Post by: hops on February 18, 2014, 10:47:17 pm
Post by: Remalle on February 18, 2014, 10:56:54 pm
HOW
WHY
argh stupid end of book hiatuses
Spoiler: omg spoilers (click to show/hide)
Post by: hops on February 19, 2014, 12:26:55 am
Or Google it, if you're boring. :P
Post by: Remuthra on February 19, 2014, 06:24:18 am
Also, is this just vampirism, or did he get possessed after being freed?
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on February 19, 2014, 09:09:32 am
Also, is this just vampirism, or did he get possessed after being freed?I'm guessing this is just a continuation of Rich's belief that the undead should be considered separate entities from their living selves.
Post by: scriver on February 19, 2014, 09:15:08 am
Anyway, back to Dorfkan - knowing... I actually don't know his name, but knowing ootswriterguy there's bound to be a twist or two about Evildurkon's new Evilagenda coming. I don't doubt for a minute that he's only using the group for his own ends by now, unless he turns out to be the rare honour-above-all kind of LE. But even then he still has to bring great disaster and death to his clan and all that.
This is what you should always listen to everything I say.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on February 19, 2014, 10:26:56 am
Post by: tahujdt on February 19, 2014, 10:57:46 am
Mind you, I still think the Evilagenda is still going to at least partially serve the Order's goals. The Snarl kind of has a history in godslaying, and I doubt Hel wants to be destroyed.Not to mention which, it also (probably) destroys souls. Even if she were to be protected from the Snarl, she would be losing potential subjects by the minute.
Post by: Akura on February 19, 2014, 04:47:01 pm
Well, damn. Looks like the Gods are getting directly involved now.Weren't they involved at the start?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
One more reason to wait for Spring I suppose.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on February 19, 2014, 07:22:32 pm
Post by: Remuthra on February 19, 2014, 07:28:17 pm
Oh yeah, and this means that Rich's whole thing about Vampire Durkon being a "non-theistic cleric that channels negative energy" sounded like bullshit because it really was!Even though it actually says that in the 3.5e cleric part of the handbook.
Post by: scrdest on February 20, 2014, 05:08:04 am
Oh yeah, and this means that Rich's whole thing about Vampire Durkon being a "non-theistic cleric that channels negative energy" sounded like bullshit because it really was!Even though it actually says that in the 3.5e cleric part of the handbook.
That sounds suspiciously like Rich pulling an asspull.
Post by: IronyOwl on February 20, 2014, 07:58:27 am
Spoiler: Recent Spoilers (click to show/hide)
I'm curious about this.Anyway, back to Dorfkan - knowing... I actually don't know his name, but knowing ootswriterguy there's bound to be a twist or two about Evildurkon's new Evilagenda coming. I don't doubt for a minute that he's only using the group for his own ends by now, unless he turns out to be the rare honour-above-all kind of LE. But even then he still has to bring great disaster and death to his clan and all that.
This is what you should always listen to everything I say.
Post by: scriver on February 20, 2014, 12:02:13 pm
Post by: Remuthra on February 20, 2014, 03:14:32 pm
Nope, it's totally a thing. Look it up.Oh yeah, and this means that Rich's whole thing about Vampire Durkon being a "non-theistic cleric that channels negative energy" sounded like bullshit because it really was!Even though it actually says that in the 3.5e cleric part of the handbook.
That sounds suspiciously like Rich pulling an asspull.
Post by: scrdest on February 20, 2014, 05:30:19 pm
Nope, it's totally a thing. Look it up.Oh yeah, and this means that Rich's whole thing about Vampire Durkon being a "non-theistic cleric that channels negative energy" sounded like bullshit because it really was!Even though it actually says that in the 3.5e cleric part of the handbook.
That sounds suspiciously like Rich pulling an asspull.
No, I mean, the asspull being that Draculkon is a different person from Durkon.
Post by: IronyOwl on February 20, 2014, 09:57:53 pm
What do you mean?As in, what makes you say that.
Post by: scriver on February 20, 2014, 11:00:16 pm
Post by: Akura on February 22, 2014, 12:16:04 pm
Possible side-effect the spell that rapidly raised Durkon as a vampire?Nope, it's totally a thing. Look it up.Oh yeah, and this means that Rich's whole thing about Vampire Durkon being a "non-theistic cleric that channels negative energy" sounded like bullshit because it really was!Even though it actually says that in the 3.5e cleric part of the handbook.
That sounds suspiciously like Rich pulling an asspull.
No, I mean, the asspull being that Draculkon is a different person from Durkon.
On the other hand, if I recall, Malack also turned down Durkon's offer of Resurrection because he said doing so would change him in to someone entirely different, so maybe not.
Post by: Bauglir on February 22, 2014, 12:50:12 pm
EDIT: Mind you, I don't buy Malack's refusal of resurrection as adequate foreshadowing to have called this. I think that line is actually a lot less interesting in retrospect now that we know it's literal, but at the time it seemed more reasonable to conclude that his experiences as a vampire had made him the person Durkon knew.
Post by: scriver on February 22, 2014, 01:04:20 pm
Post by: scrdest on February 22, 2014, 01:14:19 pm
I don't think Durcula is another person as much as he is an evil, "soulless" Durkon.
The comic directly states that the real Durkon is trapped within and is fighting against Durcula.
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 22, 2014, 07:05:13 pm
Post by: scriver on February 22, 2014, 07:26:39 pm
I don't think Durcula is another person as much as he is an evil, "soulless" Durkon.
The comic directly states that the real Durkon is trapped within and is fighting against Durcula.
I interpret it as being Durkon's soul being stuck in his body because Undeadism. The negative energy entity Durcula is not "real" Durkon, but it's also not another person.
Post by: Akura on February 23, 2014, 12:31:56 pm
Post by: tahujdt on February 23, 2014, 01:25:30 pm
However, it may be that he wasn't controlled by Hel's servant until later. Consider the scene where he tries to heal Roy and accidently channels negative energy instead: that does not strike me as the sort of mistake that a Hel(l)ish spirit would make.
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 24, 2014, 02:02:45 pm
Post by: IronyOwl on February 24, 2014, 04:14:18 pm
Just a thought, but maybe it applies ONLY to unDurkon, and other undeads remain their original selves. Most notably Xykon who crafted a phtlactrlly for this purpose
I thought it was some sort of 'evil thing has taken control. Durkon is still inside, but powerless to do anything'This would make more sense, but what would make Durkon special, then?
Again, it might be a side effect of the spell that brought Durkon back as a vampire, or possibly from the fact that his thralldom wasn't properly released due to Malack's destruction.Neither of these sound like they'd summon or spawn an entirely separate entity in control of his body and possession of his soul.
However, it may be that he wasn't controlled by Hel's servant until later. Consider the scene where he tries to heal Roy and accidently channels negative energy instead: that does not strike me as the sort of mistake that a Hel(l)ish spirit would make.Similarly, what would have happened between then and now to do that?
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on February 24, 2014, 04:15:57 pm
He's a PC?Just a thought, but maybe it applies ONLY to unDurkon, and other undeads remain their original selves. Most notably Xykon who crafted a phtlactrlly for this purposeI thought it was some sort of 'evil thing has taken control. Durkon is still inside, but powerless to do anything'This would make more sense, but what would make Durkon special, then?
Post by: misko27 on February 24, 2014, 05:16:37 pm
GitP forums think Hel had something to do with it.He's a PC?Just a thought, but maybe it applies ONLY to unDurkon, and other undeads remain their original selves. Most notably Xykon who crafted a phtlactrlly for this purposeI thought it was some sort of 'evil thing has taken control. Durkon is still inside, but powerless to do anything'This would make more sense, but what would make Durkon special, then?
Maybe the thralldom had something to do with it. Maybe Hel intervened somehow. Whatever the answer is, it better be good; there does seem to be something off about the whole thing.
Post by: MorleyDev on February 24, 2014, 06:09:51 pm
It seems here Hel has taken interest and so given the dark energy being inhabiting a bit of coaching before dispatching it off to possess the body.
Liches remain the same person since they store their soul in the phelasoulthingy, allowing it to control the dark energy fuelled skeleton.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on February 24, 2014, 07:25:10 pm
Post by: hops on March 05, 2014, 05:26:51 pm
Phylactery.Ia! Ia! Phylactery f'thagn!
Post by: Remuthra on March 05, 2014, 05:28:27 pm
Mglw'nafl Durkon Hel'yeh fh'tagn!Phylactery.Ia! Ia! Phylactery f'thagn!
Post by: Akura on March 20, 2014, 11:13:43 am
My money is on Belkar, then Elan.
Spoiler: Justification (click to show/hide)
Post by: scriver on March 20, 2014, 11:59:39 am
And by hang out I mean sex.
Post by: Akura on March 20, 2014, 12:01:58 pm
Post by: scriver on March 20, 2014, 12:26:35 pm
Post by: killerhellhound on March 23, 2014, 03:58:13 am
Order of the Stick and the Order of the Stone may foil my evil plan, but Order of the Words will never inconvenience me.siggy
Post by: Nightscar982 on March 25, 2014, 03:40:07 am
Thats just what I think, anyway, I could be wrong.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on March 25, 2014, 12:27:33 pm
Technically since they are found in temperate forests, and the entry reads "Medium Fey", they would only be an outsider (with that applied template thingy) whenever they are not on their home plane of residence. You could probably say that since Arborea has temperate forests they could reside there too, I would probably assume that most would live on the material plane and would be native while they were there, and some would live on Arborea and be native to that plane instead. Unless I'm missing some random fey plane in the standard 3.5 cosmology, but idk.You're thinking Extraplanar. Outsider is a specific type that indicates the being is composed of planar stuff, and that the body and soul are one. Extraplanar is a subtype that indicates the being is native to a different plane.
Thats just what I think, anyway, I could be wrong.
Regarding the fey, most fey in standard 3.5 cosmology are native to the Prime Material. Arborea has the eladrin, who are vaguely fey-like outsiders. However, we really don't know what there is to go on because this is not necessarily the base 3.5 cosmology.
Post by: Nightscar982 on March 26, 2014, 02:30:27 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Oh right :P.
That would explain why Roy's GF (Whose name I cannot recall right now) would be dead is dead if she ever died. That would mean that outsiders can't be banished on their home plane, unlike with what I said, I think.
Post by: Akura on March 27, 2014, 03:17:30 pm
Post by: Remuthra on March 27, 2014, 03:22:23 pm
I've been wondering, if Redcloak can summon elementals from the Periodic Table, if he were to call a uranium elemental, would that be usable as a nuke?Uranium is naturally composed of 99% U-236, which is pretty terrible for nuclear weapons, so no. Natural uranium isn't even used for power generation, because it just isn't reactive enough.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on March 27, 2014, 03:23:52 pm
Post by: Remuthra on March 27, 2014, 03:24:23 pm
He can however summon a transuranic elemental. It will fall apart as soon it's summoned, but people nearby will immediately die of radiation disease.Two words. Lead. Shield.
Post by: Remuthra on March 27, 2014, 06:26:25 pm
Your point?Only Belkar has a lead shield, though.He can however summon a transuranic elemental. It will fall apart as soon it's summoned, but people nearby will immediately die of radiation disease.Two words. Lead. Shield.
Post by: Helgoland on March 27, 2014, 07:21:08 pm
Post by: Remuthra on March 27, 2014, 07:24:34 pm
What about Belkar turning into a vampire - shouldn't that fulfil the prediction as well?I'm leaning towards Lichkar, personally.
Post by: hops on March 28, 2014, 04:24:48 am
He can however summon a transuranic elemental. It will fall apart as soon it's summoned, but people nearby will immediately die of radiation disease.You seem to forget that said nearby people also include Redcloak.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on March 28, 2014, 08:16:25 am
The original point was a question if he could shield an atomic bomb elemental, so...He can however summon a transuranic elemental. It will fall apart as soon it's summoned, but people nearby will immediately die of radiation disease.You seem to forget that said nearby people also include Redcloak.
Post by: tahujdt on March 28, 2014, 05:38:50 pm
Post by: Elephant Parade on March 29, 2014, 01:42:16 pm
The thing about the prophecy is, although the Oracle specified that Belkar would 'breath his last', which seems to be ripe for tricky interpretation, informally he spoke as if Belkar was going to die. So while Lichkar would be a terror to behold, he is probably not going to happen.He's going to acquire some sort of magic item that makes it so that he doesn't need to breathe, I bet.
Post by: Helgoland on March 29, 2014, 02:21:22 pm
The thing about the prophecy is, although the Oracle specified that Belkar would 'breath his last', which seems to be ripe for tricky interpretation, informally he spoke as if Belkar was going to die. So while Lichkar would be a terror to behold, he is probably not going to happen.That could've been the oracle just messing with him.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on March 29, 2014, 05:56:13 pm
Post by: tahujdt on March 29, 2014, 07:59:12 pm
A meta OSY would still be appropriate, since the Oracle does make asides to the audience.
Post by: scriver on March 29, 2014, 08:00:48 pm
I'm pretty sure the oracle added that he was going to die - properly - in an aside to the audience.
Indeed.
Not to mention that it would be incredibly cheap to pull another unread thing after Durkon. Particularly as Durkon's undeadism was greatly foreshadowed.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on March 29, 2014, 08:04:27 pm
I recall reading that it was going to be a short thing originally, early on before there was a proper story. "Help! Durkon's turned undead!" "Well if he's turned undead shouldn't it be under control?" etc. And then he decided to make it a Thing.I'm pretty sure the oracle added that he was going to die - properly - in an aside to the audience.
Indeed.
Not to mention that it would be incredibly cheap to pull another unread thing after Durkon. Particularly as Durkon's undeadism was greatly foreshadowed.
Post by: scriver on March 29, 2014, 08:09:36 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on March 31, 2014, 12:51:33 pm
OOTS IS BACK, TELL A FRIEND.
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on March 31, 2014, 12:54:51 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on March 31, 2014, 12:56:56 pm
Post by: Remalle on March 31, 2014, 01:29:08 pm
Post by: Remuthra on March 31, 2014, 01:40:48 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on March 31, 2014, 01:41:04 pm
It's horrifying.
They aren't stick figures anymore! And it really, really isn't working for me. They look like friggin' minifigs!
Post by: Remuthra on March 31, 2014, 01:42:49 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on March 31, 2014, 01:45:27 pm
Post by: i2amroy on March 31, 2014, 02:48:03 pm
Oh god people have actual fingers D:Obviously it's just that up till now everyone we have ever seen was wearing black gloves. :P
It's horrifying.
They aren't stick figures anymore! And it really, really isn't working for me. They look like friggin' minifigs!
I'm not sure of what I think of it yet, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
(Also I totally logged in this morning, and was watching the site as it updated).
Post by: scriver on March 31, 2014, 04:20:30 pm
Post by: FuzzyZergling on April 01, 2014, 12:50:30 am
Not sure about it yet, but I'm sure it'll grow on me.
Post by: Xantalos on April 01, 2014, 12:53:04 am
Post by: MaximumZero on April 01, 2014, 12:56:57 am
Post by: Elephant Parade on April 01, 2014, 01:14:57 am
I'm half-expecting the hands to be some sort of elaborate April Fools' joke, but they might be here to stay.
Post by: hops on April 01, 2014, 04:19:55 am
Post by: smjjames on April 01, 2014, 07:17:51 am
Post by: Playergamer on April 01, 2014, 12:03:18 pm
Post by: Akura on April 01, 2014, 02:12:10 pm
She lost her arm, so she can't use shields. At least I think that's how it works.The mother's in the guard, so she has to go topside, and we know how dwarves treat their children...Durkon has fond memories of his childhood.
Maybe she never used HIM as a meat shield?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 01, 2014, 02:54:45 pm
Wouldn't she just hold the shield in her teeth then?She lost her arm, so she can't use shields. At least I think that's how it works.The mother's in the guard, so she has to go topside, and we know how dwarves treat their children...Durkon has fond memories of his childhood.
Maybe she never used HIM as a meat shield?
Post by: Naryar on April 02, 2014, 02:21:33 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on April 08, 2014, 12:27:52 am
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on April 08, 2014, 12:31:06 am
Post by: MaximumZero on April 08, 2014, 12:50:11 am
Post by: Oliolli on April 08, 2014, 04:09:48 am
Also, we will no longer need to wonder if people are wearing shorts or not.
Post by: IronyOwl on April 08, 2014, 05:07:27 am
In related news, I'm still sort of hoping this is a Durkon-specific abnormality, and not some really important constant that nobody knows about.
Post by: Johuotar on April 08, 2014, 05:15:44 am
Post by: scrdest on April 08, 2014, 09:23:08 am
I like Durkon's better, but maybe it's just easier to make black look good.
In related news, I'm still sort of hoping this is a Durkon-specific abnormality, and not some really important constant that nobody knows about.
I don't think so, it looks like the implication is in OoTSverse vampires have this reverse-Alex Mercer thing, and since they can absorb the victim's memories completely nobody who had the opportunity managed to see through that.
Post by: Caz on April 08, 2014, 12:52:58 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 09, 2014, 07:02:36 am
Post by: Darvi on April 09, 2014, 07:25:03 am
This is why you never appoint a vampire as your hammerer. Who will hammer the hammerers?That guy who just started a tantrum spiral?
Post by: Akura on April 12, 2014, 11:05:59 am
Post by: Bauglir on April 12, 2014, 11:15:37 am
...When has Durkon ever said "Thor's nuts"?Durkon hasn't, but another dwarf in the flashback did, thereby indicating that it's a reasonable exclamation for a dwarf to make.
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on April 12, 2014, 11:59:48 am
Post by: Bauglir on April 12, 2014, 12:45:02 pm
Post by: Sheb on April 13, 2014, 09:51:50 am
Post by: 10ebbor10 on April 13, 2014, 10:39:27 am
But then Durkon never said that. So it could tip off the party members.Especially because Durkon's a cleric of Thor, so ...
Post by: Bauglir on April 13, 2014, 10:43:58 am
Post by: misko27 on April 13, 2014, 10:57:44 am
Durkula's already said lines that Durkon's never said before. People often say new sentences as time goes one - what's important is to make sure that it's in-character. I don't understand why Durkon himself never saying it is relevant. It's not really clearly blasphemous, either - it's the sort of roughness that might just be Dwarven. You have to keep in mind, the best part about being a Dwarven adventurer is that nobody outside the mountains knows a damn thing about Dwarves. You pretty much have free reign to make up whatever you want about Dwarven culture. Who's going to argue with you? You're the Dwarf.Of course, inside the Mountain is a totally different story. Dwarven Culture is obviously very homogenized (it's so homogenized it transcends individual stories), so when he gets there he may rapidly have a problem. Of course, he may not plan to go into Dwarven civilization proper at all.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on April 13, 2014, 11:30:30 am
Post by: Sheb on April 13, 2014, 11:47:30 am
Post by: scrdest on April 13, 2014, 12:31:39 pm
But can you imagine Durkon saying that? It's totally OOC for him.
I totally could.
Post by: Bauglir on April 13, 2014, 12:40:03 pm
Post by: scriver on April 13, 2014, 12:53:43 pm
Post by: i2amroy on April 13, 2014, 12:57:20 pm
Of course, inside the Mountain is a totally different story. Dwarven Culture is obviously very homogenized (it's so homogenized it transcends individual stories), so when he gets there he may rapidly have a problem. Of course, he may not plan to go into Dwarven civilization proper at all.
Spoiler: WMG (click to show/hide)
Post by: Knick on April 13, 2014, 05:03:57 pm
Of course, inside the Mountain is a totally different story. Dwarven Culture is obviously very homogenized (it's so homogenized it transcends individual stories), so when he gets there he may rapidly have a problem. Of course, he may not plan to go into Dwarven civilization proper at all.Spoiler: WMG (click to show/hide)
Yeah. And then he'll be locked up in a room, and forced to become a Book keeper
Post by: scriver on April 13, 2014, 05:51:24 pm
Post by: Elephant Parade on April 13, 2014, 10:32:38 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on April 13, 2014, 10:36:22 pm
I'm wondering exactly how this is going to interact with the prophecy of him going home in a coffin.He'll have them smuggle him in it since he expects they'll attack on site if they see him as a vampire.
Post by: Bauglir on April 13, 2014, 10:39:46 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on April 13, 2014, 10:49:51 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on April 13, 2014, 11:36:25 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on April 14, 2014, 12:22:12 am
Post by: Bauglir on April 14, 2014, 01:35:50 am
Post by: Elephant Parade on April 14, 2014, 10:07:05 am
Post by: i2amroy on April 14, 2014, 02:18:33 pm
Technically, "posthumous" means "after burial" not "after death." This is the kind of pedantry that the GitP forum gets by obsessively picking apart every little word in the comic, although nothing Durkon-related is in the same league as the Belkar Loopholist movement.Current dictionary definitions:
Quote from: Merriam-Webster
3:following or occurring after death <posthumous fame>
Quote from: World English Dictionary
1.happening or continuing after one's death
Quote from: dictionary.com
1.arising, occurring, or continuing after one's death: a posthumous award for bravery.The original latin roots might have translated to mean "after burial" (postumus: last born/born after the death of the father + humus: ground/earth, referring to burial), but the modern definition is "after death".
And for Belkar's death I'd like to point out that we already have one character walking around despite having died, and another that has died and been revived. I don't see the death of Belkar being that big of a problem personally.
Post by: scrdest on April 14, 2014, 02:48:01 pm
Post by: i2amroy on April 14, 2014, 08:24:58 pm
The 'humus' part is actually folk etymology on part of people back in whenever the spelling was standardized. It used to be 'after death', then someone though 'Well, dead people get buried. In the ground. Or 'humus'. So it obviously means 'after being put in ground'!'.I wouldn't know. Wiktionary tells me that though there were related the split happened back before it was really latin, but I'm just parroting back what the dictionaries tell me anyways. :P
Post by: Akura on April 15, 2014, 01:58:50 pm
Spoiler: I figured it out (click to show/hide)
Post by: Darvi on April 15, 2014, 02:18:23 pm
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on April 15, 2014, 02:23:18 pm
I thought it was Thor, butFIFYdrunknormal and blindfolded. Coulda been a different storm.
Post by: Darvi on April 15, 2014, 02:49:56 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on April 15, 2014, 02:53:13 pm
Post by: Darvi on April 15, 2014, 06:48:38 pm
Post by: Darvi on April 15, 2014, 06:56:13 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on April 17, 2014, 07:44:24 pm
Post by: Knick on April 17, 2014, 07:48:35 pm
But only one of them usually involves urine in some way.
Depends on how pissed you really are.
Post by: darkpaladin109 on April 18, 2014, 01:50:07 am
Post by: Darvi on April 18, 2014, 02:55:25 pm
And that's as far as I'm willing to go on the matter.
Post by: hops on April 18, 2014, 04:28:32 pm
Being that Durkon is seen as an atheist vampire cleric right now, that is subject to change.Spoiler: I figured it out (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lord Shonus on April 18, 2014, 06:24:12 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on April 18, 2014, 08:14:05 pm
Post by: hops on April 18, 2014, 08:33:34 pm
That was the working theory, now debunked. It is now confirmed that Vampire Durkon's body is being animated by the evil spirit of the High Priest of Hel.
Being that Durkon is seen as an atheist vampire cleric right now, that is subject to change.Spoiler: I figured it out (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lord Shonus on April 18, 2014, 08:35:50 pm
Post by: Sheb on April 19, 2014, 05:40:49 am
Post by: scriver on April 19, 2014, 06:07:47 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on April 19, 2014, 07:01:50 am
It doesn't mean I literally expect or want a god to lay a curse upon the object of dislike.
Post by: Remuthra on April 19, 2014, 09:44:30 am
Post by: scrdest on April 19, 2014, 09:49:39 am
As an athiest, I often go 'God damnit'.
It doesn't mean I literally expect or want a god to lay a curse upon the object of dislike.
True atheists go 'Damn God'. Turn in your atheist badge. You're off the case.
Post by: Lord Shonus on April 19, 2014, 10:05:16 am
Personally, I like to swear in the name of Nerull from the standard D&D pantheon.Incidentally, the entire reason the standard D&D pantheon exists is that Gygax was an extremely devout Christian, and felt that including his god in the game, even if by omission (which he felt would invite players to fill the gap) would constitute blasphemy. So he introduced a completely fictional pantheon to avoid the problem.
Post by: Skyrunner on April 19, 2014, 01:28:16 pm
Post by: Oliolli on April 24, 2014, 06:07:55 am
Post by: Arx on April 24, 2014, 06:28:44 am
Post by: tahujdt on April 24, 2014, 06:44:30 am
Post by: smjjames on April 24, 2014, 10:07:51 am
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 24, 2014, 10:40:28 am
Post by: Akura on April 24, 2014, 03:08:53 pm
Am I the only one who suspects that OOTS and Erfworld are part of a fantasy webcomic cartel to release updates at the same time?Aren't they both by the same guy? I don't read Erfworld so I'm not sure.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on April 24, 2014, 03:11:20 pm
Post by: i2amroy on April 24, 2014, 03:12:19 pm
Erfworld's first chunk was hosted on Giantitp, but they're by different people, i think.Yeah, they are different people/groups.
Post by: scriver on April 24, 2014, 05:15:31 pm
New one is up. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0950.html)
Those who put links in their new comic up posts gets appreciation and cookies!
Post by: Oliolli on April 24, 2014, 06:31:50 pm
OOTS is made by Rich Burlew, Erfworld by Rob Balder.Erfworld's first chunk was hosted on Giantitp, but they're by different people, i think.Yeah, they are different people/groups.
New one is up. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0950.html)
Those who put links in their new comic up posts gets appreciation and cookies!
What type of cookie? /suspicion
Post by: scriver on April 25, 2014, 09:40:16 am
Post by: BFEL on April 25, 2014, 09:44:58 am
The kind of cookie the linker likes! We are an unstrict bureaucracy. Our forms and paragraphs bend like the the grass in the storm.
YOUR BUREAUCRACY IS WEAK. I shall send Commander Shephard to show you. He bludgeon it, crush with MASSIVE MAN MUSCLES!
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 25, 2014, 04:14:05 pm
Post by: Karlito on April 25, 2014, 04:19:10 pm
Post by: andrea on April 25, 2014, 04:39:06 pm
Post by: Akura on April 26, 2014, 10:13:05 am
Post by: hops on May 05, 2014, 05:17:33 am
Post by: scrdest on May 05, 2014, 05:57:23 am
Post by: Skyrunner on May 05, 2014, 06:23:22 am
Post by: tahujdt on May 05, 2014, 06:40:48 am
Post by: RedWarrior0 on May 05, 2014, 05:28:16 pm
Having that belt of Giant Strength draped over him made Mr. Scruffy strong enough to send a wolf flying through a wall. Roy is a...17, 18 strength fighter. Whether it's a +4 or +6 belt, that's still a lot.
And he's reasonably high-leveled, so he might have another +2 or +3 from that.
The best part about this strip is that it makes you realize that ability to hold a rope down by D&D rules has nothing to do with mass.
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on May 05, 2014, 06:44:21 pm
Wouldn't it be drag in this case? He'd be moving through the air, not along the ground.Clearly the instant you hold onto a rope, your friction increases by a near infinite percentage.Having that belt of Giant Strength draped over him made Mr. Scruffy strong enough to send a wolf flying through a wall. Roy is a...17, 18 strength fighter. Whether it's a +4 or +6 belt, that's still a lot.
And he's reasonably high-leveled, so he might have another +2 or +3 from that.
The best part about this strip is that it makes you realize that ability to hold a rope down by D&D rules has nothing to do with mass.
Post by: Greiger on May 05, 2014, 06:47:40 pm
Us fighters? We hold a rope.
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on May 05, 2014, 06:50:27 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on May 05, 2014, 06:51:46 pm
Post by: smjjames on May 05, 2014, 07:07:32 pm
Like the one that he killed earlier in the comic by making him jump off a cliff?
Not so much jumping than backed up over a cliff edge.
Post by: Remuthra on May 05, 2014, 07:09:05 pm
Post by: Greiger on May 05, 2014, 08:12:28 pm
Post by: Remuthra on May 05, 2014, 08:14:23 pm
Post by: smjjames on May 05, 2014, 08:14:43 pm
Post by: MaximumZero on May 05, 2014, 09:56:01 pm
Mages, create/extinguish great conflagrations with a single spell... or two.. Clerics(even crappy dual class ones) save lives with nary an effort.Damn right, we do. And, we can dual wield if needed.
Us fighters? We hold a rope.
Post by: Remuthra on May 06, 2014, 02:07:27 pm
Post by: Akura on May 06, 2014, 02:15:12 pm
Post by: Remuthra on May 06, 2014, 02:16:27 pm
Post by: tahujdt on May 06, 2014, 03:18:25 pm
Standard BoGSs cannot provide a bonus greater that +6. Mr. Scruffy, an alleged cat, was able to knock a large wolf through a brick wall while under the affects of the belt. Cats have a strength of 3. His strength would then have been boosted to 9. I doubt, then, that this is a standard BoGS.
Post by: Sensei on May 06, 2014, 03:59:39 pm
Okay, on the BoGS:I'm fairly certain that Mr. Scruffy is a ranger companion, actually. If it's 3.5 rules, he probably has 4 hit dice and a +2 strength bonus. That's still a little hard to believe even if the cat took Improved Natural Weapon and has 12 strength though.
Standard BoGSs cannot provide a bonus greater that +6. Mr. Scruffy, an alleged cat, was able to knock a large wolf through a brick wall while under the affects of the belt. Cats have a strength of 3. His strength would then have been boosted to 9. I doubt, then, that this is a standard BoGS.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on May 06, 2014, 05:36:31 pm
Post by: Sensei on May 06, 2014, 07:43:51 pm
Post by: Greiger on May 06, 2014, 11:17:31 pm
Though for some reason I have a vague memory of some kind of giants strength belt variant that actually set your strength to a certain level instead of just increasing it. I remember it being in a video game and looting it and thinking yay! belt of giant's strength, giving it to my fighter and being disappointed when it actually lowered his strength to 19 from his 20 base.
Maybe it's that kind? Though I can't imagine why Roy would be using it in that case since his natural strength would clearly be higher than 19, cept in maybe 2.0 rules.
Post by: Yoink on May 06, 2014, 11:20:45 pm
Surprisingly, it looks like I'm only ten comics behind. :o
Post by: Greiger on May 06, 2014, 11:25:29 pm
Post by: Bauglir on May 06, 2014, 11:47:55 pm
Post by: Remuthra on May 07, 2014, 05:19:33 am
It was a hollywood breakaway wall obviously.I think there's something like that in Baldur's Gate.
Though for some reason I have a vague memory of some kind of giants strength belt variant that actually set your strength to a certain level instead of just increasing it. I remember it being in a video game and looting it and thinking yay! belt of giant's strength, giving it to my fighter and being disappointed when it actually lowered his strength to 19 from his 20 base.
Maybe it's that kind? Though I can't imagine why Roy would be using it in that case since his natural strength would clearly be higher than 19, cept in maybe 2.0 rules.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 07, 2014, 07:22:26 am
It was a hollywood breakaway wall obviously.I think there's something like that in Baldur's Gate.
Though for some reason I have a vague memory of some kind of giants strength belt variant that actually set your strength to a certain level instead of just increasing it. I remember it being in a video game and looting it and thinking yay! belt of giant's strength, giving it to my fighter and being disappointed when it actually lowered his strength to 19 from his 20 base.
Maybe it's that kind? Though I can't imagine why Roy would be using it in that case since his natural strength would clearly be higher than 19, cept in maybe 2.0 rules.
There are Bracers of Dexterity that set it to 18 in Baldur's Gate.
Post by: Bauglir on May 07, 2014, 09:14:33 am
Post by: ed boy on May 07, 2014, 12:01:59 pm
In the original, there are bracers that set the dexterity to 18 and gauntlets that set the strength the 18.It was a hollywood breakaway wall obviously.I think there's something like that in Baldur's Gate.
Though for some reason I have a vague memory of some kind of giants strength belt variant that actually set your strength to a certain level instead of just increasing it. I remember it being in a video game and looting it and thinking yay! belt of giant's strength, giving it to my fighter and being disappointed when it actually lowered his strength to 19 from his 20 base.
Maybe it's that kind? Though I can't imagine why Roy would be using it in that case since his natural strength would clearly be higher than 19, cept in maybe 2.0 rules.
There are Bracers of Dexterity that set it to 18 in Baldur's Gate.
In the sequel, there are also a range of belts that set the strength to different values from 19 to 24.
Given that attribute values in BG only went up to 25, simply adding to an attribute would cause massive overflow problems.
Post by: Akura on May 07, 2014, 01:58:17 pm
Weren't the arena's walls pretty crappy? At least, according to Roy's cross-class ranks in Knowledge(Architecture)?Okay, on the BoGS:I'm fairly certain that Mr. Scruffy is a ranger companion, actually. If it's 3.5 rules, he probably has 4 hit dice and a +2 strength bonus. That's still a little hard to believe even if the cat took Improved Natural Weapon and has 12 strength though.
Standard BoGSs cannot provide a bonus greater that +6. Mr. Scruffy, an alleged cat, was able to knock a large wolf through a brick wall while under the affects of the belt. Cats have a strength of 3. His strength would then have been boosted to 9. I doubt, then, that this is a standard BoGS.
Post by: Culise on May 07, 2014, 02:11:27 pm
No, I think he just used those to identify the loadbearing pillars and bait Thog into smashing them.Weren't the arena's walls pretty crappy? At least, according to Roy's cross-class ranks in Knowledge(Architecture)?Okay, on the BoGS:I'm fairly certain that Mr. Scruffy is a ranger companion, actually. If it's 3.5 rules, he probably has 4 hit dice and a +2 strength bonus. That's still a little hard to believe even if the cat took Improved Natural Weapon and has 12 strength though.
Standard BoGSs cannot provide a bonus greater that +6. Mr. Scruffy, an alleged cat, was able to knock a large wolf through a brick wall while under the affects of the belt. Cats have a strength of 3. His strength would then have been boosted to 9. I doubt, then, that this is a standard BoGS.
Post by: Darvi on May 19, 2014, 12:24:44 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on May 19, 2014, 12:25:36 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on May 19, 2014, 12:40:08 pm
Post by: scriver on May 19, 2014, 07:16:28 pm
Or I might be reading too much into it.
Post by: Remuthra on May 19, 2014, 07:25:52 pm
I'm pretty sure the reason they're staring at Durkon is not because he should've prevented the storm but because they think he is the reason Thor is attacking them.Yeah, that was what I was thinking. Just because he's not a priest of Thor anymore doesn't mean Thor should be angry at him, especially if he's still the same person and therefore a faithful servant.
Or I might be reading too much into it.
Post by: misko27 on May 19, 2014, 07:31:22 pm
Post by: Remuthra on May 19, 2014, 07:33:44 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on May 19, 2014, 07:35:37 pm
Post by: misko27 on May 19, 2014, 09:16:14 pm
The lightning bolt dodged the lightning rod to strike the ship directly. The only way that could happen is if the god that threw it wanted to make damn sure that the folks on that ship knew he was pissed, and did it on purpose.And so will need an excuse. A excuse with holes that might be poked apart later is better then no excuse that gets you poked apart into holes.
Post by: Zangi on May 19, 2014, 11:08:57 pm
"Lad, I'm sorry to have kept it from ya, but... as a vampire, I ain't a cleric of Thor anymore."
Post by: scriver on May 20, 2014, 10:03:06 am
Post by: tahujdt on May 20, 2014, 10:13:39 am
Post by: Knick on May 20, 2014, 11:01:01 am
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on May 20, 2014, 11:06:24 am
Post by: tahujdt on May 20, 2014, 12:39:34 pm
I imagine Thor is aware of how multiplanar soul allocation works, and thus is perfectly aware that the most powerful "living" priest of his has been mindjacked by a negative energy construct.My point exactly. Even if he doesn't know, he should still know that something is up.
Post by: Zangi on May 20, 2014, 01:13:52 pm
Post by: Arx on May 20, 2014, 02:28:08 pm
Post by: Remuthra on May 20, 2014, 02:47:31 pm
So... Durkula has no points in lying/speechcraft/diplomacy?He's a cleric, so probably not.
Post by: tahujdt on May 20, 2014, 03:13:08 pm
Much as I'd love Thor being aware of Durkon's state, past experience suggests he's just drunk.I was thinking that, but decided not to say it out loud. Good job. Now ya prob'ly jinxed it.
Post by: i2amroy on May 20, 2014, 03:58:36 pm
Based on the last frame, it looks to me like Belkar realizes that things are far more wrong with Durkula than the others thought.He also had a similar expression when Durkula pulled out the "Thor's nuts!" line. Might be he'll be the first one to deduce that something is wrong (and he's probably extra skeptical from Durkula almost, you know, killing him. Might lead to one of those scenarios where Belkar realizes what Durkula is, but nobody believes him because he's Belkar after all.
Post by: Remuthra on May 20, 2014, 04:06:46 pm
And he worked so hard on decreasing his Evil Level, too.Based on the last frame, it looks to me like Belkar realizes that things are far more wrong with Durkula than the others thought.He also had a similar expression when Durkula pulled out the "Thor's nuts!" line. Might be he'll be the first one to deduce that something is wrong (and he's probably extra skeptical from Durkula almost, you know, killing him. Might lead to one of those scenarios where Belkar realizes what Durkula is, but nobody believes him because he's Belkar after all.
Post by: Darvi on May 20, 2014, 04:41:43 pm
And also because Roy's major flaw is not listening to what people have to tell him.Based on the last frame, it looks to me like Belkar realizes that things are far more wrong with Durkula than the others thought.He also had a similar expression when Durkula pulled out the "Thor's nuts!" line. Might be he'll be the first one to deduce that something is wrong (and he's probably extra skeptical from Durkula almost, you know, killing him. Might lead to one of those scenarios where Belkar realizes what Durkula is, but nobody believes him because he's Belkar after all.
Alternatively, he does listen, just for the extra bit of character development for the two as team players.
Post by: misko27 on May 20, 2014, 06:42:28 pm
And if you remember what happened last time Belkar was the first to notice an infiltrator, and the last time Belkar faced a vampire, and the math doesn't look good for him.
Post by: MaximumZero on May 21, 2014, 12:22:19 am
Post by: Remuthra on May 21, 2014, 05:04:09 am
I have a feeling that Durkula is going to have a very unpleasant experience with Belkar soon. Possibly going over the side of the airship. After all, he is supposed to go back home posthumously.That was already shown to be a bit of a joke. He'll go home posthumously because as a vampire, he's dead already.
Post by: MaximumZero on May 25, 2014, 09:45:39 pm
Yeah, I know. Didn't they just fly into the jurisdiction of the dwarven gods? I wouldn't be surprised to see belkar toss durkula overboard, thus marking durk's return home and the fulfillment of his prophecy.I have a feeling that Durkula is going to have a very unpleasant experience with Belkar soon. Possibly going over the side of the airship. After all, he is supposed to go back home posthumously.That was already shown to be a bit of a joke. He'll go home posthumously because as a vampire, he's dead already.
Post by: Oliolli on May 26, 2014, 03:29:44 am
Post by: Skyrunner on May 26, 2014, 03:46:22 am
Post by: Remalle on May 26, 2014, 05:29:39 am
Edit: I just noticed the title. That is a good title.
Post by: scrdest on May 26, 2014, 05:35:06 am
Post by: Remuthra on May 26, 2014, 07:38:23 am
Post by: Akura on May 26, 2014, 10:22:52 am
Post by: Remuthra on May 26, 2014, 11:30:36 am
Post by: Darvi on May 26, 2014, 11:45:39 am
Post by: Remalle on June 03, 2014, 06:27:02 pm
Post by: Pnx on June 03, 2014, 08:55:35 pm
I thought that cleric magic is really supposed to be a cleric just asking their god for something to happen, with the effect channeled through the cleric.Sort of... The way divine magic is described in DnD they actually channel the god's divine power by way of supplication and achieving "oneness" with their god. You don't even have to worship any god in particular, you can worship a concept, or be pantheistic.
I'm going to predict it right now, Belkar is going to die at the hands of Durkula. Presumably at some point in the future when it's suitably dramatic and ironic to do so.
Post by: Remuthra on June 03, 2014, 08:59:21 pm
Post by: scrdest on June 04, 2014, 03:33:44 am
Here's a question: If Belkar was vampired, what do you think would happen?
I suspect either the negative energy construct thing would abandon him because of just how messed up Belkar is, or they'd notice him being nicer.
Or even worse: instead of one dominating the other, they would egg each other on.
Post by: Helgoland on June 04, 2014, 08:57:02 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on June 04, 2014, 09:23:20 pm
Post by: Xantalos on June 05, 2014, 04:06:43 am
That was after he murdered his other self and did [EXPUNGED] to the body, wasn't it?No, after he went through the trial where the only thing evil enough to represent his sins was himself, which he made more evil by recounting more evil deeds and then killed and absorbed all that evil power, saving it until 600 strips later where he basically becomes all-powerful, and you're hit with the realization he could've done this anytime he liked.
Post by: misko27 on June 05, 2014, 07:03:36 pm
When I first got to that point, I was confused because it had been so long since the trials I had forgotten about them. And when you think back to all the many, many useful points when he could have used it, it's even more strange.That was after he murdered his other self and did [EXPUNGED] to the body, wasn't it?No, after he went through the trial where the only thing evil enough to represent his sins was himself, which he made more evil by recounting more evil deeds and then killed and absorbed all that evil power, saving it until 600 strips later where he basically becomes all-powerful, and you're hit with the realization he could've done this anytime he liked.
Post by: Remalle on June 05, 2014, 07:19:10 pm
Post by: Darvi on June 05, 2014, 07:35:16 pm
Two films based on graphic novels that don't get nearly enough love: Scott Pilgrim and Watchmen. Two very faithful adaptations of incredible comic series.Is that what we call comics now?
Post by: Remalle on June 05, 2014, 07:38:34 pm
Post by: Xantalos on June 05, 2014, 11:42:34 pm
Well, when he finally used it he got to absorb the evil of all those bosses, becoming even more powerful.When I first got to that point, I was confused because it had been so long since the trials I had forgotten about them. And when you think back to all the many, many useful points when he could have used it, it's even more strange.That was after he murdered his other self and did [EXPUNGED] to the body, wasn't it?No, after he went through the trial where the only thing evil enough to represent his sins was himself, which he made more evil by recounting more evil deeds and then killed and absorbed all that evil power, saving it until 600 strips later where he basically becomes all-powerful, and you're hit with the realization he could've done this anytime he liked.
Post by: Darvi on June 12, 2014, 01:53:11 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 12, 2014, 02:04:24 pm
Post by: Akura on June 12, 2014, 03:24:40 pm
Post by: IronyOwl on June 12, 2014, 03:52:40 pm
So, how many times can Thor throw lightning bolts in a 16 minute period? Assuming it's once per round, and 10 rounds is 1 minute, 160 times?Given that they had one fry the engine, fixed everything, waited four minutes, and then blocked the second one, I'd say it's a pretty good interval. Might still be quicker than once every nine minutes, though.
Post by: scriver on June 14, 2014, 07:54:07 am
Updoot
But no link? You get no cookies, unlike the others, who got several, really taste ones. :(
Post by: Darvi on June 14, 2014, 08:28:40 am
/me noms on his biscuits.
Post by: Remuthra on June 14, 2014, 08:38:50 am
Spoiler: Biscuit (click to show/hide)
Post by: Sheb on June 14, 2014, 08:41:04 am
Post by: Remuthra on June 14, 2014, 08:42:45 am
Post by: RedWarrior0 on June 28, 2014, 04:01:18 am
Post by: Akura on June 28, 2014, 05:11:23 am
Also, why are they worrying about money? D&D economy is the most horribly broken thing ever.
Post by: Greiger on June 28, 2014, 11:05:19 am
My guess is that the 'help pay' is a friendlier way of saying 'we can pay for this easily'. I mean Haley isn't even considering if they have enough to pay at all, she's considering how much extra they can pay to speed it along. D&D economy sucks if yer not an adventurer.
Post by: Akura on June 28, 2014, 11:17:23 am
D&D economy sucks if yer not an adventurer.Or, quite possibly, a potion seller.
Post by: Remuthra on June 28, 2014, 11:21:29 am
Or any vendor, for that matter. You get half the worth of everything they sell you as a surcharge.D&D economy sucks if yer not an adventurer.Or, quite possibly, a potion seller.
Post by: Helgoland on June 28, 2014, 11:22:01 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 28, 2014, 01:20:29 pm
Is there an RPG system with an economic system that's not broken six ways from sunday?
I'm sure there's at least one, but economics is tricky to model properly.
Post by: Akura on June 28, 2014, 03:03:18 pm
Post by: Remalle on July 05, 2014, 02:00:12 am
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on July 05, 2014, 02:06:46 am
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 05, 2014, 07:31:45 pm
I like Belkar. He's evil, and as a result, he knows how to deal with evil people.He always just seemed like a regular murderhobo PC to me.
Post by: Darvi on July 05, 2014, 07:33:09 pm
Post by: BFEL on July 05, 2014, 08:07:38 pm
Post by: Xantalos on July 06, 2014, 12:25:45 am
He forgot he was pretending not to be one.I like Belkar. He's evil, and as a result, he knows how to deal with evil people.He always just seemed like a regular murderhobo PC to me.
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 06, 2014, 07:53:55 am
All in all there is very little difference between a good murderhobo and an evil murderhobo.He forgot he was pretending not to be one.I like Belkar. He's evil, and as a result, he knows how to deal with evil people.He always just seemed like a regular murderhobo PC to me.
Post by: Arcvasti on July 07, 2014, 12:30:38 am
"shove the sun so far where it doesn't shine he will vomit WARM SUMMER DAYS" OMG, that was amazing.
Yes. Also, PTW.
Post by: Oliolli on July 23, 2014, 01:36:54 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 24, 2014, 11:50:21 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Akura on July 24, 2014, 02:12:33 pm
Post by: Culise on July 24, 2014, 03:43:40 pm
Post by: Duuvian on July 24, 2014, 04:04:19 pm
Post by: Remuthra on July 24, 2014, 04:05:55 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 24, 2014, 06:54:39 pm
Post by: IronyOwl on July 24, 2014, 09:57:17 pm
Why aren't they trusting Belkar here all of a sudden? The only thing weirder than Durkon is Belkar actually showing fear for the safety of others. Alarm bells. Well, Durkon puts up a good disguise, but there's only so many times you can assume that the little guy's trying to kill himself just to frame him.As Belkar so helpfully pointed out, it doesn't work so great if you're also on the boat. Plus he's got something of a reputation for drama as is; hurling himself into danger is more likely to mean Belkar's being unreasonable than it is Belkar's being correct for quite some time.
Post by: Remalle on July 25, 2014, 04:13:46 am
(pretty low)
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 25, 2014, 05:45:05 am
As Belkar so helpfully pointed out, it doesn't work so great if you're also on the boat. Plus he's got something of a reputation for drama as is; hurling himself into danger is more likely to mean Belkar's being unreasonable than it is Belkar's being correct for quite some time.Belkar being unreasonable = Belkar being correct. Hell, the example Roy is using, Belkar tried to get Miko to kill him to prove himself right and even without that Belkar WAS right. On reflection, I think they just don't think that highly about their shoeless god of war, just like when they assumed Belkar's best fantasy was something absolutely horrifying when it was just having a dinner with the blue man group and the cat.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on July 26, 2014, 08:00:09 pm
Post by: IronyOwl on July 26, 2014, 11:09:49 pm
Belkar being unreasonable = Belkar being correct.Eh?
If you meant !=, then no, but it's a good indicator. Much like Elan making things up, but without as much meta-related plot significance.
Hell, the example Roy is using, Belkar tried to get Miko to kill him to prove himself right and even without that Belkar WAS right.Was he, or did he happen to not like her because she was calling him on his bullshit, which then looked better than it otherwise might when she turned out to be unreasonable in her own ways?
On reflection, I think they just don't think that highly about their shoeless god of war, just like when they assumed Belkar's best fantasy was something absolutely horrifying when it was just having a dinner with the blue man group and the cat.Well yeah. He started and remained for some time as a mindlessly evil brute; even on getting some character development, he didn't fully reform, as such, he just found a morality pet, mellowed out some in general, and learned the finer nuances of blending in.
Post by: Remalle on August 13, 2014, 01:58:16 pm
Post by: scrdest on August 18, 2014, 05:05:48 am
Post by: Xantalos on August 18, 2014, 05:10:50 am
No, Rich just traveled back in time and posted the same comic again.New one is up. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0960.html)You just linked to the one in the previous post.
YOU LIED!
Post by: hops on August 18, 2014, 05:28:34 am
Post by: Darvi on August 18, 2014, 08:38:26 am
Post by: scrdest on August 18, 2014, 08:54:14 am
you didn't see thatYou just linked to the one in the previous post.
YOU LIED!
Herp derp. I've seen the thread name was not changed so I assumed it linked to 959 -_-
Post by: Liber celi on August 18, 2014, 09:15:39 am
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on August 18, 2014, 10:23:16 am
Post by: smjjames on August 18, 2014, 10:26:56 am
lol
Post by: Akura on August 18, 2014, 10:38:41 am
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on August 18, 2014, 10:39:13 am
Post by: MaximumZero on August 18, 2014, 10:41:46 am
Post by: Remuthra on August 18, 2014, 05:21:34 pm
Sorryithadtobedone
Post by: Remuthra on August 18, 2014, 05:24:39 pm
*dead*
Post by: Xantalos on August 30, 2014, 02:24:35 am
Post by: Oliolli on August 30, 2014, 02:42:44 am
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on August 30, 2014, 02:44:25 am
I am ashamed of the above statment.
Post by: Xantalos on August 30, 2014, 02:47:31 am
Post by: scrdest on September 11, 2014, 06:55:40 am
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on September 11, 2014, 09:25:30 am
Post by: Akura on September 14, 2014, 12:19:27 pm
Durkon is so irresponsible.
How so?
Also, one of the best posts on the GitP thread.
Quote from: Musashi
Quote from: AtombursterHow would one lose their arm in childbirth, of all things? An amputation?Well, I've had some games of Dwarf Fortress where...
Post by: scrdest on September 14, 2014, 12:20:44 pm
I had to dig down a few pages on the board to notice this update.Durkon is so irresponsible.
How so?
Because what was he thinking thinking?
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on September 14, 2014, 12:24:26 pm
Forming memories like? I expected more foresight from him.Durkon is so irresponsible.
How so?
Post by: Tiruin on September 15, 2014, 06:37:23 am
Memories go a long way~ Pretty much. :PForming memories like? I expected more foresight from him.Durkon is so irresponsible.
How so?
I wonder how the author sees that kind of plan--deals heavily with thought. Its pretty amazing how he does it.
...Unless there's a reference to how all these happen that I'm missing?
Post by: Oliolli on September 27, 2014, 05:11:59 am
Post by: Orange Wizard on September 27, 2014, 05:57:44 am
Post by: Gamerlord on September 27, 2014, 06:13:07 am
New one is up. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0963.html)And the image isn't loading for me. Fuck.
Post by: scrdest on September 27, 2014, 07:02:44 am
Post by: Gamerlord on September 27, 2014, 07:14:08 am
Doesn't for me. Shows me the broken image thing. I have to right click, copy image URL and paste in a new tab.That doesn't work for me.
Post by: Gamerlord on September 27, 2014, 07:16:55 am
Just Firefox with the standard plugins (flash, adobe acrobat, unity player and something called 'google update' but I'm not sure what that does).Huh. You using any plugins? May need tyo disable them if you are. Or try using another browser.Doesn't for me. Shows me the broken image thing. I have to right click, copy image URL and paste in a new tab.That doesn't work for me.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 27, 2014, 07:54:47 am
Still not exactly certain how this helps Durkon since he can't communicate with anyone, but there you go.
Post by: Darvi on September 27, 2014, 07:59:53 am
Post by: Phmcw on September 27, 2014, 08:32:20 am
Post by: Akura on September 28, 2014, 11:43:08 am
Post by: 10ebbor10 on September 29, 2014, 01:39:55 am
Post by: hops on September 29, 2014, 06:37:59 am
Post by: Darvi on September 29, 2014, 08:15:09 am
I bet the ship runs on tropes.Well it has already been established to be Traveling at the Speed of Plot (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TravelingAtTheSpeedOfPlot).
Post by: RedWarrior0 on October 14, 2014, 10:43:17 pm
New one is up.
Post by: Remalle on October 14, 2014, 10:44:22 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on October 14, 2014, 10:50:55 pm
Post by: Remalle on October 14, 2014, 10:51:55 pm
Post by: Akura on October 15, 2014, 07:54:35 am
Post by: smjjames on October 15, 2014, 08:02:45 am
Also, steampunk dwarves, lol
Post by: Skyrunner on October 15, 2014, 08:05:17 am
Post by: smjjames on October 15, 2014, 08:21:31 am
Post by: scriver on October 15, 2014, 09:04:04 am
Post by: Cheeetar on October 15, 2014, 09:50:25 am
Post by: Lord Shonus on October 15, 2014, 12:26:39 pm
Post by: i2amroy on October 15, 2014, 07:08:33 pm
Ah, that is good to know. Still not fond of the new style, from an aesthetic point of view.Hunh, I'm the opposite. The newer style was weird for the first few pages, but I actually like it better than the old style now.
Post by: Orange Wizard on October 15, 2014, 09:12:52 pm
Post by: Tiruin on October 16, 2014, 02:27:21 am
I honestly wish Giant had stuck with the old art style. It looked cleaner to me, and honestly, if he's going to spend three weeks on a page with two lines of dialogue? Not worth the delay.The only thing I'll miss are the...
...The simplicity of the stick figures. Now they're colored stick figures ._.
It seems so...uncanny? Different.
Though the other elements of the art style evolves nicely. I'll really miss the ol' black of the stick figures.
Post by: hops on October 16, 2014, 04:14:07 am
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on October 18, 2014, 05:14:25 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on October 18, 2014, 05:16:39 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on October 20, 2014, 03:05:12 pm
Post by: i2amroy on October 20, 2014, 03:27:30 pm
Haley: You will have it ready by tomorrow for 40,000gp.
Mechanic: Maybe 43,000 gp?
Haley: Only if you throw in those coupons and passes on your desk.
Post by: smjjames on October 20, 2014, 03:42:35 pm
New comic is up.
Linkage: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0965.html
Post by: scriver on October 20, 2014, 08:09:38 pm
Stronger than magic.
Post by: Bauglir on October 20, 2014, 08:16:39 pm
Post by: Culise on October 20, 2014, 09:46:46 pm
Post by: MaximumZero on October 23, 2014, 10:03:48 am
Post by: Oliolli on October 24, 2014, 08:38:01 am
Post by: smjjames on October 24, 2014, 08:41:09 am
Post by: Akura on October 24, 2014, 01:04:28 pm
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on October 24, 2014, 01:46:41 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on October 24, 2014, 01:48:49 pm
Post by: IronyOwl on October 24, 2014, 01:56:51 pm
I suspect it's more malicious than that, though.
Post by: scrdest on October 24, 2014, 02:29:04 pm
Maybe he thinks that he can permanently replace Durkon if he gets rezzed.
That's what I've been thinking. But we know the resurrection will fail, if the prophecy is to be followed.
Post by: Lord Shonus on October 24, 2014, 03:02:58 pm
Maybe he thinks that he can permanently replace Durkon if he gets rezzed.
Not possible under D&D rules. A vampire (or any templated undead) that is destroyed and ressurected returns as the original creature (with -1 levels, of course.) The "soul parasite" style vampirization Rich is using doesn't change this, as it is based on the rules in (IIRC) the Libris Mortis splatbook, which explicitly does not allow the foreign soul to remain.
Post by: scriver on October 24, 2014, 03:09:24 pm
Post by: Bauglir on October 24, 2014, 05:58:52 pm
Post by: DJ on October 24, 2014, 06:01:44 pm
Post by: Bauglir on October 24, 2014, 06:12:06 pm
Or he could be relying on something he knows about this specific town, pulled from Durkon's memories (or possibly it's secretly a temple of Hel or something) which we're not privy to just yet. This is a longshot, though.
He could always have rolled a natural 1 on a Wis check, though. Even Cleric Wisdom can get results under 10 on a bad enough roll.
Post by: Lord Shonus on October 24, 2014, 06:12:41 pm
Post by: Darvi on October 25, 2014, 08:10:41 am
Post by: Akura on October 25, 2014, 11:09:03 am
Resurrection is, what, a 5th level spell?7th level. I think Roy might know about having to destroy the vampire before resurrecting it, since he shot down Belkar's suggestion of staking Durkulon for the duration of the trip, on account of him being useful and that he wouldn't consider it until a method of resurrection is right in front of them.
Post by: IronyOwl on October 25, 2014, 05:27:47 pm
Wouldn't a cleric that's high enough level to cast Resurrection know a thing or two about vampires and souls, though? That's a pretty big of getting his cover blown just for the sake of making his cover a little bit deeper.This has been my more general gripe for ages. You'd figure if vampires are common enough for everybody to know about them and their obvious traits/weaknesses, it'd be reasonably well known just what they are.
That said, Durkon himself was among the ignorant, despite personally casting Resurrection on Roy a fair while ago. So apparently in this case the answer is "No" or "Not necessarily," unless Durkon's condition really is a unique case for some reason.
Post by: Elephant Parade on October 25, 2014, 06:06:39 pm
Maybe this is a special case?Wouldn't a cleric that's high enough level to cast Resurrection know a thing or two about vampires and souls, though? That's a pretty big of getting his cover blown just for the sake of making his cover a little bit deeper.This has been my more general gripe for ages. You'd figure if vampires are common enough for everybody to know about them and their obvious traits/weaknesses, it'd be reasonably well known just what they are.
That said, Durkon himself was among the ignorant, despite personally casting Resurrection on Roy a fair while ago. So apparently in this case the answer is "No" or "Not necessarily," unless Durkon's condition really is a unique case for some reason.
If I remember correctly, the other vampire said something about practically being a different person, meaning that he probably wasn't literally a different person, since he had no reason to lie.
Post by: IronyOwl on October 25, 2014, 06:22:13 pm
Maybe this is a special case?You'd think not, though his assertion that "who he was centuries ago" is different than who he is now, as though he'll lose his memories or personality or something, might counteract that.
If I remember correctly, the other vampire said something about practically being a different person, meaning that he probably wasn't literally a different person, since he had no reason to lie.
Also in favor of special-case is that NegaDurkon didn't seem very good at being a person, whereas Snakey was. If that was the same kind of negative energy plane spirit as NegaDurkon, it's apparently one that had become either very accustomed to its new shell or was incredibly good at faking it for murderously long periods of time.
On the other hand, we have no idea why he'd be different, and there's Belkar's speech about how people don't change instantly. The former I guess could have something to do with the sunlight protection spell; that does seem like the kind of thing any spellcasting vampire would want and eventually be able to get, so maybe it's only possible through divine intervention which has some interesting connotations for vampiric spawn. I wouldn't tend to think he'd have done that knowingly or on purpose, owing to the previous issues with being pretty good at acting like a person and seeming to like Durkon a lot personally.
Belkar's speech troubles me, though, because it feels a bit like an author rant to me. It wouldn't surprise me if that was one of the original or major reasons why he felt the need to split off Person and VampirePerson into two entirely separate entities. Though at this point it might be worth mentioning that I don't like or respect Rich much, so maybe that's just not giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Post by: Lord Shonus on October 25, 2014, 06:42:56 pm
Quote from: The Giant
There is absolutely zero difference between Malack and Durkon's vampirizations, with the sole exception that Hel made the spirit sitting in Durkon's head while Nergal made the one that was sitting in Malack's. Hel is able to put that spirit into Durkon's body because of the physical vampirization process that Malack enacts on Durkon's corpse, which opens a door to Negative Energy and traps Durkon's spirit inside it. Which would also be true of any other vampire created from a person who fell under the Northern Pantheon's domain, though she wouldn't take a personal interest in just any person because they wouldn't be a powerful cleric.
Hel does not have rightful dominion over Durkon's soul as part of her normal assignment of dishonored souls, however, because Durkon did in fact die in battle. She got involved because she is also, separately, the Northern deity of undeath, and one of her "duties" is making the evil spirits for all Northern vampires. The vampirization process basically jammed up the normal disposition of Durkon's soul by trapping it inside the undead body. Where Durkon's actual soul ends up will not be determined until/unless it is freed. It's a like a naturally occurring Trap the Soul spell.
Nothing that happens with vampires in this comic can be extrapolated to work similarly with other undead. All types of undead work differently, that's why they are different types in the first place. Xykon is still Xykon.
All of Malack's dialogue regarding who he is/was should be viewed through the lens of me not wanting to spoil the scene from #946. Some of what he says is metaphorical and all of it is deliberately ambiguous, because I was consciously trying to make you think one thing while another thing was actually true. As a rule of thumb, it is not in my interest to lock down the metaphysics of things if I don't have to, so don't expect that I will have characters exposition How Things Work just to clear up your confusion.
Likewise, any assumptions that characters in the comic know or understand the details of how this process occurs on a detailed internal level should be thrown out the window. They don't. Being a vampire is super-rare; being returned to life after being a vampire so you can share the logistics of how it worked from your point of view in such a way that it entered a general body of knowledge that people would have learned about in the course of their education is simply not something that has ever occurred.
I'm sure there are more byzantine arguments going around that I'm missing, but really, this isn't as complicated as most of you are making it. There is only one way that vampirization works, and it overrides the natural order of things, including where souls go. That's why everyone says things like, "That's against the natural order of things!" about it. However, Hel is not breaking the rules of vampirization itself at all.
Post by: IronyOwl on October 26, 2014, 02:02:35 am
Nice to see my faith in The Giant was, at the least, not totally misplaced.
Post by: Lord Shonus on October 26, 2014, 02:26:23 am
Post by: IronyOwl on October 26, 2014, 07:14:46 pm
Not that it matters a whole lot, since if he's using it in his world he gets to take flak for it being dumb, official or not.
As for the speech, I don't doubt a lot of people figured out a lot of things, and I don't doubt most of them were wrong. But we don't really need to consider how obvious it was to various portions of the fanbase, because we have his own words that it doesn't make sense unless you consider what he was trying to do. If it made perfect sense, he wouldn't have to adjust our expectations to the proper perspective for understanding his artistic intent, because it'd make perfect sense. You could look back and say "Oh! I get it. That makes sense." Instead, on looking back you "should... view [it] through the lens of me not wanting to spoil the scene from #946."
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on October 30, 2014, 12:59:06 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on October 30, 2014, 01:04:29 pm
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on October 30, 2014, 01:07:02 pm
Post by: i2amroy on October 30, 2014, 03:51:04 pm
So portions of the dialogue only make sense from a retroactive author's perspective, he has no idea how anything in his own comic works unless he absolutely needs to and even then he's not going to explain it, and vampires are common/famous enough for everyone to know what they are and how they work but also rare/mysterious enough that nobody knows how they work internally, except for that they "go against the natural order of things" even though the reasons why are the things nobody knows about.
Spoiler: Somewhat Ranty Response to Rant (click to show/hide)
Post by: Tiruin on October 30, 2014, 08:42:10 pm
Just egotistical grandstanding from where I'm standing. You don't have to go to twitter every time you do something moral.Isn't that only one instance? o_O and...not everything moral he did?
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on October 30, 2014, 09:47:06 pm
It's more of a trend of people doing this sort of thing that annoys me. "Ooh, look at me being so progressive and affirming of LGBTQI+ publicly. I'll make a snappy retort at some bigot and let you the people decide how to react." It's the same vein as all these "97% of people won't repost this..." on Facebook and "Bring on the downvotes, because I say [very popular opinion]" on Reddit.Just egotistical grandstanding from where I'm standing. You don't have to go to twitter every time you do something moral.Isn't that only one instance? o_O and...not everything moral he did?
Everybody who does stuff like this knows going into it the reaction they're going to get. It creates a circlejerk around the subject for being oh so principled. It's done to feed their own egos, both the original poster and everybody who swarms around it.
Post by: Bauglir on October 30, 2014, 10:29:11 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on October 31, 2014, 02:09:17 am
It's more of a trend of people doing this sort of thing that annoys me. "Ooh, look at me being so progressive and affirming of LGBTQI+ publicly. I'll make a snappy retort at some bigot and let you the people decide how to react." It's the same vein as all these "97% of people won't repost this..." on Facebook and "Bring on the downvotes, because I say [very popular opinion]" on Reddit.Just egotistical grandstanding from where I'm standing. You don't have to go to twitter every time you do something moral.Isn't that only one instance? o_O and...not everything moral he did?
Everybody who does stuff like this knows going into it the reaction they're going to get. It creates a circlejerk around the subject for being oh so principled. It's done to feed their own egos, both the original poster and everybody who swarms around it.
In this case, the person he was responding to tried to bully his publisher into not publishing OOTS material. Not only that, but he got a huge amount of flak from some of the forum members for "shoving a lesbian into the narrative for the sake of political correctness", with a few of them acting if a female character casually mentioning an ex-girlfriend was "Ooh, look at me being so progressive and affirming of LGBTQI+ publicly." (Can't link to the posts in question, when someone gets in trouble over there the posts get scrubbed.)
Post by: Orange Wizard on November 03, 2014, 06:26:31 am
Post by: Tiruin on November 03, 2014, 07:27:41 am
Strange...those forum members are inclined to make unwarranted assumptions as if there was malevolent intent with the dialogue and...the intent in general.It's more of a trend of people doing this sort of thing that annoys me. "Ooh, look at me being so progressive and affirming of LGBTQI+ publicly. I'll make a snappy retort at some bigot and let you the people decide how to react." It's the same vein as all these "97% of people won't repost this..." on Facebook and "Bring on the downvotes, because I say [very popular opinion]" on Reddit.Just egotistical grandstanding from where I'm standing. You don't have to go to twitter every time you do something moral.Isn't that only one instance? o_O and...not everything moral he did?
Everybody who does stuff like this knows going into it the reaction they're going to get. It creates a circlejerk around the subject for being oh so principled. It's done to feed their own egos, both the original poster and everybody who swarms around it.
In this case, the person he was responding to tried to bully his publisher into not publishing OOTS material. Not only that, but he got a huge amount of flak from some of the forum members for "shoving a lesbian into the narrative for the sake of political correctness", with a few of them acting if a female character casually mentioning an ex-girlfriend was "Ooh, look at me being so progressive and affirming of LGBTQI+ publicly." (Can't link to the posts in question, when someone gets in trouble over there the posts get scrubbed.)
...Or maybe its just me in seeing a single out of the many. I really don't get this 'ooohh, look at {x}' thing >.> Attention grabbing?
Post by: Bauglir on November 03, 2014, 08:47:47 am
That would have been useful information for Rich to include in the Twitter post. It really does come across as a circlejerk.Dude, it's Twitter. 140 characters. If you're looking for nuance and context, you're in the wrong place.
Post by: hops on November 09, 2014, 04:43:38 am
Post by: Remalle on November 10, 2014, 03:51:57 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on November 10, 2014, 03:59:52 pm
New one is up (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0967.html). So that answers that question./me begins to chortle with laughter
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 10, 2014, 04:35:03 pm
Post by: Xantalos on November 10, 2014, 06:08:37 pm
Post by: Skyrunner on November 10, 2014, 06:19:22 pm
Post by: Remuthra on November 10, 2014, 06:21:00 pm
Post by: i2amroy on November 21, 2014, 12:07:00 am
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 21, 2014, 12:12:05 am
Post by: Skyrunner on November 21, 2014, 07:13:10 am
Post by: Akura on November 21, 2014, 08:00:27 am
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 27, 2014, 05:51:17 pm
Post by: Helgoland on December 01, 2014, 08:10:28 pm
Post by: Playergamer on December 01, 2014, 08:22:22 pm
Post by: Akura on December 02, 2014, 01:51:37 pm
Post by: uber pye on December 02, 2014, 05:01:11 pm
he is now neutral!
Post by: andrea on December 02, 2014, 05:12:29 pm
Post by: Xantalos on December 02, 2014, 05:22:04 pm
Post by: birdy51 on December 02, 2014, 06:05:26 pm
Post by: Remuthra on December 02, 2014, 06:11:54 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on December 02, 2014, 06:13:21 pm
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18472962&postcount=11
Protection from Evil blocks all forms of compulsion regardless of alignment, but cannot expel a possessing force that is already present.
Post by: Remuthra on December 02, 2014, 06:14:36 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on December 02, 2014, 06:26:07 pm
Post by: birdy51 on December 02, 2014, 06:29:04 pm
Actually, he refused her, and the last panel is him trying to justify turning her down to himself.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18472962&postcount=11
Aww... There goes the air out of that balloon...
Post by: scrdest on December 02, 2014, 06:34:36 pm
All "protection from X" spells are identical save for the specific alignment they target. The issue is that Protection from Good is not going to be useful very often except for Evil characters, so there's very little reason why anybody would have such an item lying around in a Good or Neutral settlement. As for Law/Chaos, Protection from Law is illegal in most places in the Stickverse per Word Of Giant, while Protection from Chaos is of more limited use than PfromEvil (so much less likely to be available), wouldn't help Belkar as much, and would still have whatever homebrewed penalty (by RAW, protection spells that oppose your alignment don't bother you, but the Giant has either modified the spell or tacked a penalty onto the item) the Protection From Evil item has.
Protection from Chaos sounds like an interesting possibility for law enforcement in D&D.
Post by: Akura on December 04, 2014, 09:03:50 am
Post by: Naryar on December 04, 2014, 01:32:14 pm
I cannot wait where this character development thing is going... but tbh i didn't followed from where the "Belkar learns to care for people" plot came. Was it Durkon's death that kickstarted that thing ?
Post by: scrdest on December 04, 2014, 01:50:57 pm
Tsundere Belkar is pretty hilarious.
I cannot wait where this character development thing is going... but tbh i didn't followed from where the "Belkar learns to care for people" plot came. Was it Durkon's death that kickstarted that thing ?
Perhaps he still has Durkula's compulsions on, except it simply couldn't out-evil regular Belkar :P
Post by: Akura on December 04, 2014, 01:54:09 pm
Post by: Helgoland on December 04, 2014, 02:05:06 pm
We have cookies
Very, very bland cookies
Post by: Akura on December 04, 2014, 02:07:08 pm
Post by: Culise on December 04, 2014, 02:08:08 pm
No no, that's Law. Neutral's cookies are sweet but gluten free.While Chaotic suffer from the fact that no one follows the recipes, so they're all over the place. Really, it's impossible to find a decent cookie nowadays.
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on December 04, 2014, 02:20:04 pm
Post by: Zangi on December 08, 2014, 03:07:47 pm
Tsundere Belkar is pretty hilarious.It all starts with the cat... and where did that tiny dino go?
I cannot wait where this character development thing is going... but tbh i didn't followed from where the "Belkar learns to care for people" plot came. Was it Durkon's death that kickstarted that thing ?
Post by: i2amroy on December 08, 2014, 03:12:06 pm
And it sorta concludes with his crazed ramblings while he's affected by the curse in in the thieve's town.Tsundere Belkar is pretty hilarious.It all starts with the cat... and where did that tiny dino go?
I cannot wait where this character development thing is going... but tbh i didn't followed from where the "Belkar learns to care for people" plot came. Was it Durkon's death that kickstarted that thing ?
And I wouldn't be surprised if it comes back eventually.
Post by: hops on December 16, 2014, 10:42:02 am
Post by: smjjames on December 16, 2014, 10:44:25 am
And it sorta concludes with his crazed ramblings while he's affected by the curse in in the thieve's town.Tsundere Belkar is pretty hilarious.It all starts with the cat... and where did that tiny dino go?
I cannot wait where this character development thing is going... but tbh i didn't followed from where the "Belkar learns to care for people" plot came. Was it Durkon's death that kickstarted that thing ?
And I wouldn't be surprised if it comes back eventually.
Didn't that curse get removed though?
Post by: Akura on December 16, 2014, 01:48:52 pm
Dammit, I was expecting an update.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on December 16, 2014, 10:22:00 pm
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on December 17, 2014, 12:01:03 am
Post by: Naryar on December 17, 2014, 05:25:19 pm
No no, that's Law. Neutral's cookies are sweet but gluten free.
Nonsense.
Good cookies: Good cookies are sweet and gluten free and allergy free and non-tested on animals and non-tested on humans and all other sorts of ethical packaging in cookies. Only the worst hippies buy them because they're overpriced for how they taste. But they're ETHICAL !!1
Chaotic cookies: The taste and recipes are all over the place, some are the classic chocolate cookies, some do cookies with meat, cheese (and they're not necessarily bad). A large majority of Chaotic cookies are also mutagenic. Sometimes there are shrooms, peyotl or other hallucinogens in there. (They are the most Fun cookies)
Lawful cookies: Lawful cookies are bland cookies with subtle hormonal doses that makes people more Lawful. However, they are nutritionally perfect, due to having a formula that has been perfected for millenia. (Cooks deviating from the formula by more than five percent tends to cause them being burned at the stake for being heretics)
Evil cookies: Evil cookies are the most delicious, but they're made from the tears of orphans AND they mind-control you into doing their bidding. Evil, evil bidding. They also have highly addictive chemicals in them.
Neutral cookies: They are just cookies, no more, no less, and without all the aforementioned bullshit. No, they're not bland. They're just cookies for the sake of cookies, the purest form of cookie.
After all, real cookies are True Neutral. They're just food.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 17, 2014, 05:37:31 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 17, 2014, 06:32:45 pm
Hope of update: crushedSometimes that's just how the cookie crumbles ah ah ahha ha ah......
....I am an empty shell of a human being.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on December 18, 2014, 07:42:28 pm
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0970.html
Post by: smjjames on December 18, 2014, 07:46:18 pm
Post by: Darvi on December 18, 2014, 07:50:18 pm
Also there's so much wrong with your post I do not know where to start with. Granted, it's only two things, but I have trouble making decisions.
Post by: smjjames on December 18, 2014, 07:52:21 pm
Consensus on IRC is that it's Bozzok.
Also there's so much wrong with your post I do not know where to start with. Granted, it's only two things, but I have trouble making decisions.
I did think initially he was a half ogre, but I wasn't sure and I went for ogre. I wasn't able to remember the guys name.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 18, 2014, 08:09:00 pm
Post by: smjjames on December 18, 2014, 08:11:28 pm
Are you referring to the half-orc Thog, from Nale's Linear Guild?
Yes that guy. I really screwed up that earlier post didn't I? lol.
Post by: Xantalos on December 18, 2014, 08:31:39 pm
Post by: smjjames on December 18, 2014, 08:33:02 pm
I think Thog's dead. It might be that one lizardman guy from the pits, though.
When was the last time we saw Thog though?
Post by: Darvi on December 18, 2014, 08:34:44 pm
When he got crushed as a direct result from his tantrum.I think Thog's dead. It might be that one lizardman guy from the pits, though.
When was the last time we saw Thog though?
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 18, 2014, 08:39:03 pm
However, Thog had massive strength and constitution, so if there's anything he could miraculously survive it would be being crushed under a ton of stone.
Post by: smjjames on December 18, 2014, 08:45:11 pm
When he got crushed as a direct result from his tantrum.I think Thog's dead. It might be that one lizardman guy from the pits, though.
When was the last time we saw Thog though?
Yeah, I believe the last time we saw him was in a collapsing stadium.
Post by: Caz on December 18, 2014, 09:46:39 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 18, 2014, 10:00:34 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on December 18, 2014, 10:59:30 pm
Post by: Caz on December 18, 2014, 11:00:29 pm
Surely Bozzok would be in the place he runs and has power in, rather than half way round the world? And even if it is Bozzok, he doesn't have a hope of beating a full-strength Order of the Stick, no matter how many low-level goons he brought.
Breadcrumb. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0942.html)
Post by: birdy51 on December 19, 2014, 12:06:10 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 19, 2014, 02:11:20 am
Post by: Culise on December 19, 2014, 11:21:56 am
It's definitely Bozzok, but I want Thog to be alive. :(They never found the body on-screen in the arc that most blatantly played with genre conventions. I'm pretty sure both he and Sabine will be showing up again, even if it's in an epilogue against Elan's father. ^_^
Post by: smjjames on December 19, 2014, 11:23:17 am
It's definitely Bozzok, but I want Thog to be alive. :(They never found the body on-screen in the arc that most blatantly played with genre conventions. I'm pretty sure both he and Sabine will be showing up again, even if it's in an epilogue against Elan's father. ^_^
Sabine isn't dead, just temporarily banished.
Post by: Culise on December 19, 2014, 11:26:24 am
Post by: Naryar on December 20, 2014, 08:14:41 am
Also Vaarsuvius has the best lines. Closely followed by Belkar, of course
also
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: hops on December 20, 2014, 09:42:48 am
Post by: Akura on December 20, 2014, 11:49:24 am
Post by: DJ on December 20, 2014, 12:12:29 pm
Post by: birdy51 on December 21, 2014, 05:21:47 pm
Thog strikes me as the kind of villain who can somehow become dangerously competent now that he's had one too many run-ins with the Order.
Post by: Orange Wizard on December 22, 2014, 03:38:33 am
Also, Bozzok actually wants to hunt the Order down. Well, part of it, at any rate.
Post by: Remalle on December 28, 2014, 12:00:16 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 28, 2014, 12:03:09 am
Post by: Skyrunner on December 28, 2014, 12:03:59 am
Post by: Remuthra on December 28, 2014, 12:04:56 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 28, 2014, 12:06:05 am
Post by: Remalle on December 28, 2014, 12:12:00 am
Haley said is Crystal was ever revived, the deal with Bozzok was off.Doesn't look like she was revived, though. Looks like a flesh golem (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0578.html) if anything, though the GiantITP forums have pointed out golems can't speak and wouldn't have Crystal's speech patterns if they could. Some sort of undead we haven't seen before, then.
Post by: Caz on December 28, 2014, 12:39:16 am
Post by: scriver on December 28, 2014, 12:53:00 am
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 28, 2014, 12:59:21 am
Post by: Remuthra on December 28, 2014, 01:01:37 am
Post by: Remalle on December 28, 2014, 02:45:24 am
Did Haley steal her boots or something? I can knly remember her taking the dagger.It goes back a little further than that (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0608.html).
Post by: Naryar on December 28, 2014, 09:57:35 am
So, any idea what kind of undead it is ? I was thinking "revenant" may be a good idea.
Because I know how a D&D flesh golem looks and this is not a flesh golem. Besides, flesh golems have no Int score.
Post by: Darvi on December 28, 2014, 10:12:19 am
Besides, flesh golems have no Int score.Neither does Crystal.
Post by: Akura on December 28, 2014, 11:56:51 am
I thought it was Thog. But Crystal ? Eh. She's probably vastly outclassed anyways.Against the whole Order, yes, but as Haley's rival, she automatically gains levels when Haley does(and is apparently aware of it to).
As for whatever she became, didn't they meet a guy who makes creatures out of dead bodies that last time they dealt with Bozzok's crew?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on December 28, 2014, 12:30:42 pm
At least as intelligent as she used to be, anyway.
Post by: Remuthra on December 28, 2014, 12:32:11 pm
Those were flesh golems.I thought it was Thog. But Crystal ? Eh. She's probably vastly outclassed anyways.Against the whole Order, yes, but as Haley's rival, she automatically gains levels when Haley does(and is apparently aware of it to).
As for whatever she became, didn't they meet a guy who makes creatures out of dead bodies that last time they dealt with Bozzok's crew?
Post by: Lord Shonus on December 28, 2014, 12:39:50 pm
Post by: Naryar on December 28, 2014, 04:17:42 pm
Besides, flesh golems have no Int score.Neither does Crystal.
5 Int isn't the same as - Int.
Post by: Remuthra on December 28, 2014, 04:20:51 pm
- Int is better :P.Besides, flesh golems have no Int score.Neither does Crystal.
5 Int isn't the same as - Int.
Post by: Orange Wizard on December 29, 2014, 03:03:01 am
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 29, 2014, 03:31:14 am
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on December 29, 2014, 03:39:10 am
some kind of Incarum nonsense.*eyebrows raised*
That'd be interesting to see. It's kinda far outside of the familiar range of D&D for most people.
Post by: Lord Shonus on December 29, 2014, 03:40:54 am
The deal being off was not contingent on Crystal being resurrected. Rather, this was Haley's way of saying "If you're ever in a position to pass a message along, pass THIS on."
Post by: Remalle on December 29, 2014, 04:48:04 am
Well, we already know (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0546.html) what Redcloak, and by extension most likely the Giant, think of Incarnum, so it most likely won't be that.some kind of Incarum nonsense.*eyebrows raised*
That'd be interesting to see. It's kinda far outside of the familiar range of D&D for most people.
Post by: Akura on December 30, 2014, 12:23:18 pm
Post by: Remuthra on December 30, 2014, 12:27:55 pm
Post by: Akura on December 30, 2014, 12:48:16 pm
There seems to be some consensus on the GitP forum that it's a revenant.
Post by: Lord Shonus on January 12, 2015, 09:14:28 pm
Post by: Orange Wizard on January 16, 2015, 09:02:10 am
Also, their forum is in an uproar about Haley's "taste in girls" comment. Apparently they think Rich is sticking it to the prudish conservatives who're all going to be really upset by it, or something.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on January 16, 2015, 10:04:08 am
Post by: Akura on January 16, 2015, 12:22:36 pm
Also, their forum is in an uproar about Haley's "taste in girls" comment. Apparently they think Rich is sticking it to the prudish conservatives who're all going to be really upset by it, or something.
It's the same community that flipped their shit when Belkar made a masturbation reference to a woman he had just had sex with and was about to have sex with again.
Spoiler: Also they don't seem to have remembered (click to show/hide)
Post by: Devastator on January 16, 2015, 02:29:51 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on January 16, 2015, 03:20:33 pm
As for what Crystal is, Word Of Giant is that she's a flesh golem.
Post by: Akura on January 17, 2015, 01:39:16 pm
As for what Crystal is, Word Of Giant is that she's a flesh golem.So who's the other half-dozen poor bastards used to make her?
Also, unrelated, but the library version of Chrome has the the word "golem" flagged as misspelled.
Post by: Atomic Emu on January 23, 2015, 08:15:13 am
Post by: smjjames on January 23, 2015, 08:29:22 am
Post by: Darvi on January 23, 2015, 10:10:44 am
Post by: Orange Wizard on February 02, 2015, 06:28:35 pm
Lots of startling (or predictable) reveals depending on how closely you followed the fan theories.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on February 02, 2015, 06:35:10 pm
Post by: Remuthra on February 02, 2015, 06:36:47 pm
Post by: Remalle on February 13, 2015, 03:28:24 am
Post by: Darvi on February 13, 2015, 03:30:15 am
I don't exactly know how, but the parallels are probably there.
Post by: hops on February 13, 2015, 03:32:54 am
Post by: Xantalos on February 13, 2015, 04:49:40 am
Post by: scriver on February 13, 2015, 05:53:15 am
Post by: MrWiggles on February 13, 2015, 06:14:21 am
Post by: Orange Wizard on February 13, 2015, 04:51:42 pm
Post by: darkpaladin109 on February 13, 2015, 05:13:39 pm
Poor gnomes.
Post by: OREOSOME on February 13, 2015, 06:18:55 pm
Er. I mean...
Poor gnomes.
Post by: Orange Wizard on February 13, 2015, 06:29:19 pm
I should totally take notes on that in case a group of my players end up running away from an enemy in a populated area.If it were my players, they'd just let the gnomes die.
Er. I mean...
Poor gnomes.
My players are dicks.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 13, 2015, 06:46:07 pm
Post by: birdy51 on February 13, 2015, 06:50:12 pm
Gnomes make excellent projectiles.
Post by: Arcvasti on February 13, 2015, 08:58:28 pm
/me goes back into his cave
Post by: scriver on February 13, 2015, 09:10:25 pm
Post by: Remalle on February 13, 2015, 09:54:21 pm
Post by: Remuthra on February 13, 2015, 10:02:33 pm
If they were mine, I'd reward them for running. It's when they don't do the smart thing that half the party gets possessed and tries to kill the others.I should totally take notes on that in case a group of my players end up running away from an enemy in a populated area.If it were my players, they'd just let the gnomes die.
Er. I mean...
Poor gnomes.
My players are dicks.
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on February 13, 2015, 11:52:50 pm
We didn't even realize until we had gone to bed, two days later.If they were mine, I'd reward them for running. It's when they don't do the smart thing that half the party gets possessed and tries to kill the others.I should totally take notes on that in case a group of my players end up running away from an enemy in a populated area.If it were my players, they'd just let the gnomes die.
Er. I mean...
Poor gnomes.
My players are dicks.
Post by: Remuthra on February 13, 2015, 11:55:26 pm
Seriously. I figured it would be a minor plot point at most, unless everyone was really careless. You just wait 'till I start tracking diseases, or karma, or magical curses, or something.We didn't even realize until we had gone to bed, two days later.If they were mine, I'd reward them for running. It's when they don't do the smart thing that half the party gets possessed and tries to kill the others.I should totally take notes on that in case a group of my players end up running away from an enemy in a populated area.If it were my players, they'd just let the gnomes die.
Er. I mean...
Poor gnomes.
My players are dicks.
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on February 14, 2015, 01:09:55 am
Post by: Remuthra on February 14, 2015, 09:19:35 am
Note to self, get my hands on Detect Disease ASAP. Visit Camel Dans?Camel Sam (Not Dan) carries everything, including hints.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 14, 2015, 09:26:17 am
Post by: Remuthra on February 14, 2015, 09:30:35 am
One would think adventurers would have killed gnomes themselves on some quest or another.
Post by: i2amroy on February 14, 2015, 11:44:20 am
(http://i.imgur.com/OVlMbik.png)
Post by: RedWarrior0 on February 22, 2015, 02:00:23 pm
Post by: Oliolli on February 25, 2015, 05:58:42 am
Post by: Helgoland on February 25, 2015, 06:55:33 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on February 25, 2015, 06:57:57 am
Post by: Helgoland on February 25, 2015, 07:06:03 am
(I'm a DSA fellow, not a D&D one - I'm unfamiliar with the terminology...)
Post by: IronyOwl on February 25, 2015, 08:01:26 am
In other words, it's pretty close to just dealing bonus damage. Which can be particularly vital if your normal weapons deal low damage themselves, as with dual-wielding daggers or flurrying arrows.
Post by: Playergamer on March 17, 2015, 09:45:38 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on March 17, 2015, 09:56:48 pm
Post by: Orange Wizard on March 18, 2015, 04:06:43 am
Gnomeland Security...Christ.I'm tempted to stop reading because of that.
Post by: Tiruin on March 18, 2015, 04:14:40 am
What about it? ???Gnomeland Security...Christ.I'm tempted to stop reading because of that.
It's...called Gnomeland? And their security force lacks a motto?
/me is confused.
Post by: Orange Wizard on March 18, 2015, 04:45:03 am
Post by: Xantalos on March 18, 2015, 05:18:41 am
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on March 18, 2015, 01:46:52 pm
Post by: hops on March 18, 2015, 02:32:24 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on March 18, 2015, 03:25:25 pm
Post by: Akura on March 22, 2015, 12:17:54 pm
I wonder if that 5x cost for retaining her mind was worth it?
Post by: Caz on March 22, 2015, 01:49:45 pm
Post by: Orange Wizard on March 22, 2015, 05:35:30 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 22, 2015, 08:45:34 pm
I actually feel sorry for Crystal. Never thought that would happen.Same here :/
...Tis all Bozzok's fault.
That, and Haley could've invested a few points in Diplomacy D: (Unless I'm mistaken that the PC... Nemesis mechanic will NEVER LIKE YOU EVER :( is a thing)
I don't know D&D despite being fascinated by how the narrative is woven into a playable story. :'(
Post by: GiglameshDespair on March 22, 2015, 08:46:57 pm
Post by: Xantalos on March 23, 2015, 01:42:52 am
Post by: Tiruin on March 23, 2015, 02:34:21 am
Then they'd stop being your nemisis. Crystal was short-sighted and violent - a primitive beast. I doubt diplomacy would have swayed her....Hmm :/ True...in a way.
Nice boots though.
Post by: Orange Wizard on March 23, 2015, 03:25:33 am
Haley has a maxed Bluff skill, that's basically as high Diplo as you get.And
Post by: Akura on March 28, 2015, 12:27:15 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on March 28, 2015, 01:37:17 pm
Guess who used Diplomacy. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0979.html)
Belkar?
Post by: Greiger on March 28, 2015, 04:38:13 pm
Post by: scriver on March 28, 2015, 08:21:53 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 28, 2015, 08:41:39 pm
Post by: Bauglir on March 28, 2015, 08:44:21 pm
>tfw still no pally Miko zombieShe'd be half a skeleton by now.
Post by: i2amroy on March 28, 2015, 11:07:06 pm
>tfw still no pally Miko zombieI'm pretty sure Rich actually confirmed on the forums that Miko wasn't ever coming back. Us getting to see her blown in half was his response to the people who were so convinced she was coming back that even his posts stating that she wasn't wouldn't convince them otherwise. :P
Post by: Orange Wizard on March 29, 2015, 12:03:11 am
Post by: RedWarrior0 on April 17, 2015, 10:51:21 pm
Well that's at least partially taken care of.
Post by: Akura on April 18, 2015, 11:23:38 am
Post by: birdy51 on April 18, 2015, 01:50:56 pm
One or two of those maybes might have or will have happened. Maybe.
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 18, 2015, 01:57:41 pm
Post by: Orange Wizard on April 19, 2015, 03:06:12 am
Post by: Xantalos on April 19, 2015, 03:09:21 am
It's a sliding scale!
Post by: Arx on April 19, 2015, 08:04:41 am
Did someone forget to inform Crystal that dead is -10 hitpoints? Because that's usually when you stop killing something.
Unless that's (mostly) non-lethal damage.
Post by: MrWiggles on April 19, 2015, 03:11:44 pm
Post by: Naryar on April 27, 2015, 06:57:17 am
And yes, I am just doubting solving problems with magma.
...I don't know what to think about that.
Post by: Akura on April 27, 2015, 07:47:37 am
It might have been a dick move, but it was necessary. She was a nigh-unstoppable monster that just declared her intent to rampage around Tinkertown until she got bored and went after Haley again.
Post by: scriver on April 27, 2015, 08:05:12 am
It's a bit sad to see the tieening of the threads begin.
Post by: Xantalos on April 27, 2015, 02:18:47 pm
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on April 27, 2015, 02:25:32 pm
Post by: smjjames on April 30, 2015, 09:42:29 am
Good thing she wasn't a steel golem or made out of some other magma resistant material.
Post by: i2amroy on May 05, 2015, 10:42:46 am
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 05, 2015, 04:05:41 pm
Okay.
Fair enough.
...
I wonder what Durkula's game is, though.
Post by: hops on May 05, 2015, 04:10:50 pm
Post by: Xantalos on May 08, 2015, 04:37:16 am
Update!
Durkon was apparently as skilled as the High Priest of Odin. That's pretty impressive.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on May 13, 2015, 09:42:28 pm
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0985.html
Apparently we missed an update.
Post by: Remalle on May 13, 2015, 09:50:17 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on May 13, 2015, 10:01:26 pm
For being an acolyte unused to their blindfold, that gnome caught the coin pouch awfully well... Its probably nothing, but I'm suspicious of them and how easily they gave away important information.
Post by: Skyrunner on May 13, 2015, 11:03:11 pm
Post by: Tiruin on May 14, 2015, 12:37:16 am
I just thought that Roy tossed it well..This, pretty much here.
Also, vampire ._.
I think I forgot a previous update where someone said something about vampires and gnomes.
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 14, 2015, 12:50:25 am
Huh...I don't think there's too much to read in to there. I might be wrong, but "did he just say 'vampire'?" is probably indicative of a lot more trouble.
For being an acolyte unused to their blindfold, that gnome caught the coin pouch awfully well... Its probably nothing, but I'm suspicious of them and how easily they gave away important information.
Post by: Bauglir on May 14, 2015, 12:58:48 am
Post by: smjjames on May 14, 2015, 08:51:28 am
Post by: Akura on May 14, 2015, 11:01:12 am
The real question is, what the hell in Hel's name is Durkon trying to do? If he needs a cleric that's powerful enough to cast Resurrection, maybe he just needs a cleric that can cast 7th-level spells. But what spell? Refuge? Greater Scrying? Those are the only two I can think of that might be useful for Hel. And Durkon should be able to cast those already anyway. Alternately, he's trying to remove any possible source of a resurrection.
Huh...
For being an acolyte unused to their blindfold, that gnome caught the coin pouch awfully well...
She held out her hand when Roy said "Here's a donation to your temple.", then he threw it.
Post by: Culise on May 14, 2015, 11:37:12 am
Essentially, I don't think he's looking for a cleric capable of casting Resurrection or other 7th level spells; as you say, Akura, he can do that himself. I think, rather that the operative question is: what kind of pilgrimage would call for so many powerful clerics to gather together at the same time in the rear end of nowhere, outside of dwarven lands? One that involves all of the North Gods except Hel? Are the vague situational similarities with another outcast Evil God we know about with a plot to blackmail the gods in order to ensure their own power and the protection of their followers, the Dark One, bugging anyone except me?
EDIT: Thought of another question. Why would Durkula need Roy and the Order of the Stick, instead of just heading off himself in the night? Also, and it might tie into that question, Durkula wants to get there ahead of the rush - he wants a fast ship to take him along the pilgrimage, and explicitly not to actually follow the pilgrims.
EDIT 2: ...he doesn't want the clerics at all. He wants to get to the pilgrimage site before them. Let's say you have some sort of powerful ritual you need to cast with a bunch of high-level casters in a particular location; what would happen if the place where you do it in was secretly contaminated or desecrated by a high-level but opposing caster before you ever got there?
Post by: Zangi on May 14, 2015, 11:59:10 am
Yea, the pilgrimage site is the likely destination...
Post by: Lord Shonus on May 14, 2015, 12:01:18 pm
Huh...I don't think there's too much to read in to there. I might be wrong, but "did he just say 'vampire'?" is probably indicative of a lot more trouble.
For being an acolyte unused to their blindfold, that gnome caught the coin pouch awfully well... Its probably nothing, but I'm suspicious of them and how easily they gave away important information.
I don't see how much trouble it COULD cause. It's already common knowledge (due to their temple searches) in the town that a black human male is running around with a Dwarf vampire, so one more cleric finding out can't make much difference.
Now, Roy insisting on seeing this Elf, THAT is going to be a big deal - particularly if that particular elf heard about Roy and Durkula at one of the other temples and is prepared to counter vampire tricks.
Post by: Akura on May 18, 2015, 12:01:53 pm
Not what I expected from a cleric.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on May 18, 2015, 12:37:03 pm
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on May 18, 2015, 01:31:42 pm
Which is wierd, since Wisdom is the ability of common sense and Clerics.New one is up. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0986.html)Ditzes manage to get into every profession somehow. Fantasy professions are no different, I'd imagine.
Not what I expected from a cleric.
Post by: scrdest on May 18, 2015, 01:39:15 pm
Perhaps it's true for PCs but realistically, some characters would simply be incompetent at their jobs. Scatterbrained Clerics, ugly-ass, boring Bards... Rule of Fun and/or Drama.Which is wierd, since Wisdom is the ability of common sense and Clerics.New one is up. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0986.html)Ditzes manage to get into every profession somehow. Fantasy professions are no different, I'd imagine.
Not what I expected from a cleric.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on May 18, 2015, 01:42:31 pm
Perhaps it's true for PCs but realistically, some characters would simply be incompetent at their jobs. Scatterbrained Clerics, ugly-ass, boring Bards... Rule of Fun and/or Drama.Which is wierd, since Wisdom is the ability of common sense and Clerics.New one is up. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0986.html)Ditzes manage to get into every profession somehow. Fantasy professions are no different, I'd imagine.
Not what I expected from a cleric.
They might be very wise in some things, and not so much in the other. After all, you can get very intelligent people who can be thick as bricks in everything outside their area of expertise.
Post by: Zangi on May 18, 2015, 02:05:02 pm
Skill - Skullduggery: Inept
Probably much more interested in what she is doing/food then bothersome social things like caring about who knows what she is doing and trying to figure out if the people they are talking to are belligerent or not.
Post by: Remalle on May 18, 2015, 07:48:48 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on May 18, 2015, 10:54:29 pm
Post by: swordsmith04 on May 21, 2015, 09:35:24 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on May 21, 2015, 09:45:54 pm
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on May 21, 2015, 11:48:40 pm
Ah, she's a Favored Soul.Which is wierd, since Wisdom is the ability of common sense and Clerics.New one is up. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0986.html)Ditzes manage to get into every profession somehow. Fantasy professions are no different, I'd imagine.
Not what I expected from a cleric.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on May 22, 2015, 03:08:24 am
Post by: Remalle on May 22, 2015, 04:46:17 am
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 22, 2015, 05:17:05 am
Post by: Akura on May 22, 2015, 12:04:09 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 22, 2015, 01:52:00 pm
Post by: Darkmere on May 22, 2015, 07:04:35 pm
A) Is there an index?
and/or
B) Any idea about how far back I should go? The group was on an airship in a thunderstorm, last I recall. V put out a fire and was shielding the ship from lightning strikes.
Post by: Remalle on May 22, 2015, 07:09:14 pm
Post by: Darkmere on May 22, 2015, 07:13:56 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on May 22, 2015, 10:30:52 pm
Quick question though: Should I put Strip 1 at the top and the latest one at the bottom, or should I put the latest one at the top and Strip 1 at the bottom? Either way, I'd still have links above the index to those two.
E: Second question: Should I break things up more than just by book? If so, thoughts on how?
Post by: Darkmere on May 22, 2015, 11:58:01 pm
To convert that to the current OotS plot, the current book would be split into the airship segment, the first Tinkertown segment with Haley's old grudge being settled, and the current chapter with the Cleric's convention.
I think, anyway. I don't remember much from my last archive binge however many months ago.
Post by: Sheb on May 28, 2015, 04:28:02 am
Post by: Akura on May 28, 2015, 08:50:17 am
Post by: Zangi on May 28, 2015, 09:18:51 am
Looks like Andi is going to be a problem. She doesn't seem to respect her new captain.More like a sarcastic wife. She has been working all day slaving over the hot engine and will need to stay up all night to finish. With a swarm of grubby little gnomes.
Post by: ArKFallen on June 02, 2015, 11:40:53 am
Post by: Greiger on June 02, 2015, 12:19:20 pm
Post by: Orange Wizard on June 02, 2015, 04:32:20 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on June 02, 2015, 04:37:04 pm
Post by: Orange Wizard on June 02, 2015, 04:41:56 pm
Although that would give the game away to Roy etc.
Post by: ArKFallen on June 02, 2015, 04:56:46 pm
Post by: Naryar on June 03, 2015, 02:31:50 am
Post by: Skyrunner on June 03, 2015, 04:35:20 am
Post by: Akura on June 03, 2015, 12:05:52 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on June 03, 2015, 07:01:03 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on June 03, 2015, 07:05:08 pm
Post by: Akura on June 12, 2015, 10:40:10 am
Is Roy a half-cow or something, with two guts?
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 12, 2015, 11:31:15 am
Update. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0990.html)It takes doubelguts to lead
Is Roy a half-cow or something, with two guts?
Post by: Xantalos on June 12, 2015, 11:39:21 am
2gutUpdate. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0990.html)It takes doubelguts to lead
Is Roy a half-cow or something, with two guts?
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 12, 2015, 11:53:31 am
Post by: MrWiggles on June 12, 2015, 04:57:46 pm
Post by: Atomic Emu on June 22, 2015, 04:08:50 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 22, 2015, 04:10:37 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on June 23, 2015, 12:12:04 am
Post by: Remalle on June 23, 2015, 01:58:53 am
Edit: oh wait, Hilgya, of course. I wonder what gives.
Post by: i2amroy on June 23, 2015, 09:59:17 am
Is this the first dwarf we've seen without an accent?Maybe it's because he's some type of bard/storyteller? I wouldn't be surprised if part of bardic training entailed learning how to control your accent.
Post by: Veylon on June 23, 2015, 11:04:36 am
Who wants to bet that the story is actually completely made up?Yeah, as even kid Durkon notes, it's not exactly all that disturbing. His dad almost has to have done something awful if nobody wants to talk about it.
Post by: smjjames on June 23, 2015, 11:14:02 am
Is this the first dwarf we've seen without an accent?Maybe it's because he's some type of bard/storyteller? I wouldn't be surprised if part of bardic training entailed learning how to control your accent.
Maybe, and he does say that he is a bard of some sort.
Who wants to bet that the story is actually completely made up?Yeah, as even kid Durkon notes, it's not exactly all that disturbing. His dad almost has to have done something awful if nobody wants to talk about it.
I think you may be right, he almost implies that Durkons father did something dishonourable and died dishonorably with the 'whether or not his father died with honor'.
Post by: Tiruin on June 23, 2015, 09:33:36 pm
From memory and looking far back to where I can recall every bard, I really think the accent is due to his profession of sorts. :PIs this the first dwarf we've seen without an accent?Maybe it's because he's some type of bard/storyteller? I wouldn't be surprised if part of bardic training entailed learning how to control your accent.
Maybe, and he does say that he is a bard of some sort.
I'm a bit lost on why Durkon is showing Evil-Not-Durkon this, but it seems like a very intriguing and complex plan.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 23, 2015, 09:52:07 pm
Post by: Naryar on June 24, 2015, 03:24:09 am
Although killing it with a cave-in is sufficiently dwarven. My only regret is that it didn't involved magma.
Post by: scriver on June 24, 2015, 05:32:47 am
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 24, 2015, 05:40:38 am
Post by: Remalle on June 29, 2015, 04:42:52 pm
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 01, 2015, 04:57:10 am
Roy's toque :3 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0992.html)That truly is a meritorious temple.
Post by: Camulus on July 01, 2015, 08:22:00 am
Good. Good.
I binge watched this strip once I came upon it.
Evil internet, with it's insomnia inducing content.
Oh, I just realized that the vampirism of durkon is a clever ploy to flesh out his backstory, since roy, holly and var already have quite a lot known aboot em.
Now....the halfling?
Probably murdered his parents.
Post by: Arcvasti on July 01, 2015, 06:50:00 pm
Now....the halfling?
Probably murdered his parents.
I think the official statement from the author is that we'll never delve too deeply into Xykon or Belkar's origins because then their psychopathy would be sad instead of darkly humourous.
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 01, 2015, 07:03:25 pm
Post by: heydude6 on July 01, 2015, 09:22:50 pm
Haven't you read Start of Darkness?Now....the halfling?
Probably murdered his parents.
I think the official statement from the author is that we'll never delve too deeply into Xykon or Belkar's origins because then their psychopathy would be sad instead of darkly humourous.
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 01, 2015, 09:44:20 pm
Haven't you read Start of Darkness?Which was written with the explicit goal of making Xykon as unsympathetic as possible.
Spoiler: actually spoilers (click to show/hide)
No, Belkar's backstory is one I could believe actually has a twinge of sadness in it, but in Xykon's case it's about as deep as the puddle of blood under zombie grandma's feet.
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on July 02, 2015, 03:00:30 am
Post by: Tiruin on July 02, 2015, 07:53:41 am
Belkar's backstory (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0125.html), but the source is unreliable.I'd rather say complicated than unreliable :P Given the depth of Belkar's character--he could as well be telling the whole truth, but quick to act on the follow-up. It could be said like a 'split second' drift of body language that is really hard to convey in a comic without making it really obvious(?) as far as I know.
Especially given the last 2 panels. Though also given the nature of the comic...I'm unsure if that was more in jest ._. (I mean, a level has MUCH weight in D&D, right? GM's really take care when they do such things...right?)
I've no experience with D&D though I'd love to really play it.
97% of people around me just don't know it x_x
Post by: GiglameshDespair on July 02, 2015, 08:15:43 am
Belkar's backstory (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0125.html), but the source is unreliable.I'd rather say complicated than unreliable :P Given the depth of Belkar's character--he could as well be telling the whole truth, but quick to act on the follow-up. It could be said like a 'split second' drift of body language that is really hard to convey in a comic without making it really obvious(?) as far as I know.
Especially given the last 2 panels. Though also given the nature of the comic...I'm unsure if that was more in jest ._. (I mean, a level has MUCH weight in D&D, right? GM's really take care when they do such things...right?)
I've no experience with D&D though I'd love to really play it.
97% of people around me just don't know it x_x
Him getting roleplaying xp for that is the joke, yes.
Like mould, there's occasionally outbreaks of dnd games on the forums here. As with all forum games, most of them don't last, but that's how it goes with all of them.
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 02, 2015, 12:55:33 pm
Post by: scrdest on July 08, 2015, 02:57:16 pm
Post by: Willfor on July 08, 2015, 03:18:33 pm
Spoiler: * (click to show/hide)
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 08, 2015, 03:24:19 pm
Post by: Akura on July 20, 2015, 10:16:02 am
Neutral ground indeed.
Post by: i2amroy on July 20, 2015, 02:43:51 pm
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 20, 2015, 06:40:26 pm
Post by: hops on July 21, 2015, 04:47:40 am
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 31, 2015, 02:58:39 am
Post by: scrdest on July 31, 2015, 04:22:09 am
New one is up (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0995.html).Well this just got interesting...
Post by: RedWarrior0 on July 31, 2015, 08:49:26 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on July 31, 2015, 08:53:40 am
Post by: heydude6 on July 31, 2015, 09:06:29 am
Post by: scriver on July 31, 2015, 09:11:40 am
Post by: RedWarrior0 on July 31, 2015, 12:37:06 pm
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on July 31, 2015, 01:02:12 pm
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 31, 2015, 05:41:55 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on July 31, 2015, 06:29:45 pm
My prediction is that Belkar will run back to Roy and be all "Durkula just went and nommed on some priest dude!". Roy will refuse to believe him because Belkar's clearly lying for his own gain, etc., other party members and random NPCs will try to convince Roy that shit is probably going down, then shit will go down.
If you look at the last few panels closely, Belkar is purposely sticking his leg and cloak out into view, presumably to bait Durkula into chasing him, presumably with the goal of leading him towards the rest of the Order or some other clerics.
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 01, 2015, 02:12:08 am
Post by: scriver on August 01, 2015, 08:19:23 am
Although the posing is kind of weird ;)
Post by: Remalle on August 02, 2015, 12:34:19 am
Post by: Akura on August 02, 2015, 12:36:51 pm
The real question is, how many charges does Malack's staff have left?
Post by: scrdest on August 06, 2015, 12:12:54 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on August 06, 2015, 01:45:16 pm
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 06, 2015, 04:58:17 pm
Post by: heydude6 on August 06, 2015, 05:02:34 pm
You know, I had forgotten Vampires could do that.As someone who's never played a game of DnD, what exact ability are you referencing?
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 06, 2015, 05:06:48 pm
Vampires gain the ability to shapeshift into certain creatures. Wolves are one, I think a swarm of bats might be another. Can't remember details, but that's basically what happens here.You know, I had forgotten Vampires could do that.As someone who's never played a game of DnD, what exact ability are you referencing?
Post by: hops on August 06, 2015, 05:07:22 pm
Post by: i2amroy on August 06, 2015, 05:07:39 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on August 06, 2015, 05:53:37 pm
Hmm, this would be a rather anticlimactic death for Belkar (who is prophesied to die fairly soon, remember).
We might have another strip like this one (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0443.html), this time with Belkar. Or maybe not.
Is Durkula planning to go full murderhobo on everything?
I've been wondering about that. There was basically no reason to kill the Exarch guy other then general dickery.
Also, I finally got the pun with the new strip's title.
Post by: smjjames on August 06, 2015, 06:00:20 pm
Vampires gain the ability to shapeshift into certain creatures. Wolves are one, I think a swarm of bats might be another. Can't remember details, but that's basically what happens here.You know, I had forgotten Vampires could do that.As someone who's never played a game of DnD, what exact ability are you referencing?
Transforming into a bat (or a swarm of bats or something similar) is the traditional one, the wolf transformation is a new one for me. I haven't played DnD either.
Post by: smjjames on August 06, 2015, 06:07:34 pm
Hmm, this would be a rather anticlimactic death for Belkar (who is prophesied to die fairly soon, remember).
We might have another strip like this one (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0443.html), this time with Belkar. Or maybe not.Is Durkula planning to go full murderhobo on everything?
I've been wondering about that. There was basically no reason to kill the Exarch guy other then general dickery.
Or maybe he was hungry and the exarch made for a convenient victim, no way to defend himself, the laws of the Godsmoot give no protection, and no diety to object.
And of course, the same applies to all of the members of that hosting sect.
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 06, 2015, 06:07:47 pm
Post by: smjjames on August 06, 2015, 06:10:24 pm
Belks looks more annoyed than fearful for his life when falling to his doom. Maybe this is what happens when you have the power to bring yourself back to life. Death is just a milestone.
When did Belkar have the ability to resurrect himself? Is that a DnD ranger/rogue thing?
Unless you meant the clerics.
Although yeah, Belkar may die, but theres nothing in the prophecy that says that he can or can't be resurrected. After all, Roy did.
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 06, 2015, 06:12:28 pm
Post by: smjjames on August 06, 2015, 06:14:45 pm
Anyways, as I said in my edit, theres nothing stopping someone from reviving Belkar.
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 06, 2015, 06:30:26 pm
Post by: smjjames on August 06, 2015, 06:40:23 pm
Except Roy, V, and probably some other party members.
And Rich Burlew.
Post by: Bauglir on August 06, 2015, 06:52:28 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on August 06, 2015, 06:52:36 pm
Although yeah, Belkar may die, but theres nothing in the prophecy that says that he can or can't be resurrected. After all, Roy did.
Belkar will draw his last breath-ever-before the end of the year. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0572.html)
That pretty explicitly rules out resurrection. Being undead is still in, which is why everyone thought Malack was going to make him into a vampire.
EDIT: Wow, ninja'd. Bluh.
Post by: Culise on August 06, 2015, 07:25:28 pm
I'm starting to wonder if this isn't just an opportunistic target to turn the non-theistic clerics into a small army. Durkula turns one person, they both turn two people, and it quickly goes exponential. Hel goes from absolutely no high-level clerics to having a small army's worth, and one that no one immediately knows about. Even if some of the newly-turned vampires get a little over-zealous with their drinking and actually kill their targets, it still comes out to a net benefit for Hel. We just didn't go back to the Exarch's revival because Durkula ran off after Belkar, and hasn't returned yet. There's still the Godsmoot itself, though, and any significance it has that would call for bringing all these high-level casters to one place. There's also the problem that a small army of vampires is a lot harder to hide than the machination of a single High Priest of Hel.Hmm, this would be a rather anticlimactic death for Belkar (who is prophesied to die fairly soon, remember).
We might have another strip like this one (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0443.html), this time with Belkar. Or maybe not.Is Durkula planning to go full murderhobo on everything?
I've been wondering about that. There was basically no reason to kill the Exarch guy other then general dickery.
That said, Belkar's completely not going to die yet. It'd just be too anti-climactic at this point.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on August 07, 2015, 08:49:21 am
Post by: Remalle on August 10, 2015, 02:52:39 pm
(see what I did there)
Post by: Arcvasti on August 10, 2015, 02:59:07 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 10, 2015, 04:13:59 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 10, 2015, 04:36:24 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on August 10, 2015, 04:41:06 pm
This must come back to what lies beyond the rift, since just destroying the world would unleash the Snarl if the legend is true, and the gods would obviously know better. Unless by "destroy the world" they mean "kill all intelligent life".
Unweave the world, weave it round the snarl again. They've weaved it round it while it was loose before, stands to reason they could do it again.
Snarl is trapped, everything is fixed, with the minor issue of everyone being dead, but they're Gods. They can sort up a solution.
Post by: Lord Shonus on August 10, 2015, 04:49:51 pm
This must come back to what lies beyond the rift, since just destroying the world would unleash the Snarl if the legend is true, and the gods would obviously know better. Unless by "destroy the world" they mean "kill all intelligent life".
Back in the Crayons of Time arc, it was explained that the Snarl could be properly imprisoned, but the existing prison (in other words, the world and possibly all of existence save for the gods themselves) would have to be torn down first.
Post by: Culise on August 10, 2015, 07:37:22 pm
At least, as far as they know. The issue with the gods' plan is basically that no one knows how the Snarl has changed in its time of imprisonment. Last time, they succeeded because it had no idea what they were doing; it may well be an act of divinely-supreme hubris (literally so, given who will be recreating the prison) to assume that this would still be the case. If nothing else, it may no longer be a "being of pure chaos out to unmake reality" (if it ever truly was), because there's another reality on the other side of those rifts that is still presumably intact.This must come back to what lies beyond the rift, since just destroying the world would unleash the Snarl if the legend is true, and the gods would obviously know better. Unless by "destroy the world" they mean "kill all intelligent life".
Unweave the world, weave it round the snarl again. They've weaved it round it while it was loose before, stands to reason they could do it again.
Snarl is trapped, everything is fixed, with the minor issue of everyone being dead, but they're Gods. They can sort up a solution.
Post by: Remalle on August 13, 2015, 03:08:35 pm
Oh and some stuff happened I guess.
Post by: Bauglir on August 13, 2015, 03:16:23 pm
Tarquin would be so mad.
Post by: Arcvasti on August 13, 2015, 03:28:53 pm
I'm wondering if they invited the Dark One to this. Probably not, since Redcloak's not here.
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on August 13, 2015, 03:32:10 pm
Post by: hops on August 13, 2015, 03:41:43 pm
Post by: Remalle on August 13, 2015, 03:42:28 pm
I like to imagine the vote is to destroy the world in 999, and it happens in 1000, and that's the end of the comic.While this would be hilarious, it would probably make more narrative sense for #1000 to reveal the final result of the vote (my money's on "yes").
Tarquin would be so mad.
Post by: hops on August 13, 2015, 03:44:36 pm
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 13, 2015, 04:23:28 pm
I like to imagine the vote is to destroy the world in 999, and it happens in 1000, and that's the end of the comic.As much as I don't want it to end, this is clearly the best option.
Tarquin would be so mad.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on August 14, 2015, 12:02:43 am
I'd imagine thr vote passing, and Hel going "No, fuck this." then kills everyone.How? Given that the entities involved are her peers and betters, there's not much chance she can intervene.
Post by: fillipk on August 14, 2015, 12:06:07 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on August 14, 2015, 09:00:06 pm
Post by: fillipk on August 14, 2015, 09:02:29 pm
He's gone against this trope, twice beforeI like to imagine the vote is to destroy the world in 999, and it happens in 1000, and that's the end of the comic.While this would be hilarious, it would probably make more narrative sense for #1000 to reveal the final result of the vote (my money's on "yes").
Tarquin would be so mad.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 14, 2015, 09:04:35 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on August 14, 2015, 09:09:14 pm
Oh my.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'd imagine that most of the evil gods would be adamantly against destroying the world, which is kinda funny.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Roy, of course, has the obvious solution which is 100x better than Heimdall's. Since there's no guarantee that the trap will work a second time.
(Heimdall isn't in Firefox autocorrect, it suggests Waldheim. Wtf?)
Post by: Greiger on August 14, 2015, 10:49:36 pm
Spoiler: My completely uneducated guess of Hel and Durkula's plan: (click to show/hide)
Of course I don't really read the comic religiously and keep an eye on every little detail, I usually catch up in bursts, so I'm probably very very wrong. But I can't think of much reasoning why Durkula would still be hanging around them if Hel did not have some vested interest in their success.
Post by: Akura on August 17, 2015, 10:22:17 am
Spoiler: I personally think Hel's plan is... (click to show/hide)
I'm wondering if they invited the Dark One to this. Probably not, since Redcloak's not here.Why would the Dark One be there? He's not accepted by any of the other gods, which is the reason why Redcloak is doing what he's doing.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on August 20, 2015, 09:02:37 am
Post by: Arcvasti on August 20, 2015, 11:54:19 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: fillipk on August 20, 2015, 12:02:51 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on August 20, 2015, 12:10:22 pm
What is his angle? What happens in a tie?
Presumably Hel uses the threat of tying the vote in order to get some leverage to accomplish their semi-mysterious goals. I'm still sort of expecting Redcloak to barge in and add the Dark One's vote at some point.
Post by: Zangi on August 20, 2015, 12:14:09 pm
Total War: Southern Deities v Western Deities edition, North tries to stay out, but is dragged in kicking and screaming.What is his angle? What happens in a tie?
Presumably Hel uses the threat of tying the vote in order to get some leverage to accomplish their semi-mysterious goals. I'm still sort of expecting Redcloak to barge in and add the Dark One's vote at some point.
Post by: Moghjubar on August 22, 2015, 05:41:22 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mote_in_God%27s_Eye
Post by: Akura on August 24, 2015, 10:40:50 am
Post by: MrWiggles on August 24, 2015, 11:05:26 pm
Post by: i2amroy on August 25, 2015, 03:59:42 pm
Post by: darkflagrance on August 26, 2015, 12:51:46 am
It does make me wonder what happens if there is a tie though all of the way across though? Do the human priests get to vote? Does Odin's vote as leader just count as 1.1 votes? Because regardless of what he votes the best he's gonna do is go from "not destroy the world"->"perfect tie".
And that's how Hel reveals she incarnated an avatar of another Norse God in one of her thrall's bodies, given her an additional vote.
Post by: Helgoland on August 26, 2015, 02:31:18 am
Post by: scriver on August 26, 2015, 05:23:59 am
Post by: fillipk on August 26, 2015, 12:09:11 pm
Post by: MorleyDev on August 26, 2015, 12:45:19 pm
In Norse myth, Holler is the god of death and destruction and the one who brings diseases and disasters. He drags people to his dungeon where he tortures them to death.
So if Hel is allied with Holler and turning the unaffiliated guy gives Holler a vote then technically...
Post by: Sergius on August 26, 2015, 07:16:23 pm
Post by: Bauglir on August 26, 2015, 07:22:46 pm
Post by: smjjames on August 26, 2015, 07:29:42 pm
http://www.pantheon.org/articles/h/holler.html
In Norse myth, Holler is the god of death and destruction and the one who brings diseases and disasters. He drags people to his dungeon where he tortures them to death.
So if Hel is allied with Holler and turning the unaffiliated guy gives Holler a vote then technically...
That's IF he is in OOTS's Northern Pantheon.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on August 27, 2015, 11:22:48 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on August 27, 2015, 11:27:43 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on August 27, 2015, 11:28:01 pm
Now, what's about to transpire should be badass.
Post by: fillipk on August 27, 2015, 11:43:58 pm
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 28, 2015, 01:23:49 am
Unless Rich has something else planned and I'm talking out of my arse, which is also a possibility.
Post by: Moghjubar on August 28, 2015, 01:40:28 am
And the Vampire + his fresh thralls may not be the only problem... as there also may end up a mage on his side.
Post by: i2amroy on August 28, 2015, 02:16:17 am
Maybe belkar could bring in the calvary or something here? He got tossed out the window, it's certainly possible that someone on our hovering airship could have seen that and then gone to grab him.
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on August 28, 2015, 02:21:12 am
Durkula's a high-level vampire cleric with loads of spells, presumably prepared for combat. No way Roy can take him on his own. Belkar is basically useless because of vampire damage reduction. If the other priests decide to help Roy out, he's got a chance, but realistically we need another high-level spellcaster who isn't bound by the rules of the godsmoot to intervene.Well, Roy also has that sword augmented with starstone or whatever it's name is, which sometimes glows, dealing extra damage to undead and he might have that spell-interrupting attack that he got from his dad in heaven.
Unless Rich has something else planned and I'm talking out of my arse, which is also a possibility.
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 28, 2015, 06:27:50 am
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 28, 2015, 06:55:47 am
Post by: scrdest on August 28, 2015, 07:43:54 am
Where's Vaarsuvius in all of this, again? I can't remember.I'm fairly confident that V WILL show up and try to help... only to get hijacked to hell as part of the deal.
Just thinking if he might decide to go help Roy with stabbings and slicings.
Post by: Lord Shonus on August 28, 2015, 09:06:11 am
I thought they'd already gone and done that? Or are they able to do it whenever?
Each of the three fiends (NEro, CEdrik, and LEe) provided a soul for the soul splice, and has the right to claim V's soul for the amount of time that soul was spliced to V - two for 25 minutes and thirty seconds, one for 3 minutes and six seconds. One of the former has cashed in the claim, but there is still one long and one short stay in Hell for V, assuming V is not eaten by the Snarl.
Post by: Helgoland on August 28, 2015, 09:40:29 am
Post by: Culise on August 28, 2015, 09:49:26 am
EDIT:
Huh. I just glanced back at that arc for a bit. Haley (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0910.html) might have accidentally had the right idea.
Post by: Lord Shonus on August 28, 2015, 09:50:27 am
But they're interested in the continued existence of the world, no?Dunno. They're not threatened at all - Hel explicitly is basing her plan on the afterlives being safe-, and nobody not named Rich Burlew has more than the faintest clue what their plan is.
Post by: LoSboccacc on August 28, 2015, 09:57:02 am
Unless Rich has something else planned and I'm talking out of my arse, which is also a possibility.
it seems implied that Hal has a deal/relationship with demigods to tip the balance of the vote, but more than half of them? Result is not yet given, so the whole gambit could fail on its own as well. Which would be anticlimatic as hell, but not unprecedented
Post by: Ghills on August 28, 2015, 10:44:29 am
I have the physical books but am definitely getting the digital copies. Much easier to carry around than the physical ones.
Post by: fillipk on August 28, 2015, 10:54:54 am
Post by: Rolan7 on August 28, 2015, 01:24:36 pm
It's a little odd, I'd expect the Norse demigods to mostly follow Loki. Since a lot of them are probably the monsters he's famous for siring. He might be feigning defeat for now... I don't think so though.Unless Rich has something else planned and I'm talking out of my arse, which is also a possibility.
it seems implied that Hal has a deal/relationship with demigods to tip the balance of the vote, but more than half of them? Result is not yet given, so the whole gambit could fail on its own as well. Which would be anticlimatic as hell, but not unprecedented
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 28, 2015, 01:29:44 pm
Post by: birdy51 on August 28, 2015, 02:20:20 pm
Post by: Akura on August 28, 2015, 05:27:06 pm
*Grasping Hand grabs some popcorn, moves it towards caster*
Post by: Greiger on August 28, 2015, 06:08:17 pm
Though it's probably moot, the 'if any bothered to show up' bit seems to indicate that they are usually no-shows. Consitering everything that has happened, I'm betting some DID show up, and the ones that did were all convinced by Hel to do so.
Post by: Bauglir on August 28, 2015, 06:44:51 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 28, 2015, 06:57:15 pm
PLACE YA BETS
Post by: Strife26 on August 29, 2015, 12:08:30 am
Post by: fillipk on August 29, 2015, 12:19:14 am
ROY VS SUSPICIOUS URISTI bet Belkar
PLACE YA BETS
Post by: Strife26 on August 29, 2015, 12:29:30 am
Post by: Sergius on August 29, 2015, 12:42:24 am
Post by: Rolan7 on August 29, 2015, 12:42:36 am
Damn, I was idly hoping that comic 1000 would have the vote of the gods going for destroy and the comic ending at such an auspicious number. Oh well.The last panel being the players and DM, with the players offering to start buying pizza.
Post by: fillipk on August 29, 2015, 01:41:24 am
hey this isn't Full Frontal Nerdity.Damn, I was idly hoping that comic 1000 would have the vote of the gods going for destroy and the comic ending at such an auspicious number. Oh well.The last panel being the players and DM, with the players offering to start buying pizza.
Post by: Akura on August 29, 2015, 05:48:47 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on August 29, 2015, 05:55:40 pm
I keep seeing in places that Roy got some spell disruption feat while he was dead. I don't know of any such feat, but I do know you can declare a readied action to attack when someone starts casting a spell - which forces a Concentration check to avoid losing the spell.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0600.html
The consensus is that it's probably some variant of Mage Slayer, which makes it impossible to avoid the Attack Of Opportunity for casting by casting defensively.
Post by: Remalle on August 29, 2015, 05:56:48 pm
Damn, (half-orc) ninja'd.
Post by: Rolan7 on August 29, 2015, 06:03:23 pm
(...not surprising, for reasons.)
It's a bit weird, and doesn't really match what happens in OoTS. A mage threatened by the character (in this case an ogre with like 40 reach most times) automatically fails all concentration checks to cast defensively. Losing the spell but not provoking.
What we somehow missed was that a threatened mage is always aware of this, so there's no reason for them to try (they can still cast normally and hope to concentrate over the damage). Which makes it not match the OoTS feat. (We played it as they aren't aware, and then they even provoked on the failed attempt, which is doubly wrong)
Also when the Barbearian gained the ability to cast corrupt spells as a full-level caster, we forgot to penalize his caster level by 4 as per the feat. But, that was about when I quit in disgust anyway. That wasn't even the reason, but it didn't help...
In short I have no idea what the feat is. I kinda assumed it was homebrew, but Mr. Burlew seems pretty good about sticking to official material. Probably since so many people work hard on theorycrafting.
(I failed my spot check against ninjas)
Post by: Akura on August 29, 2015, 06:46:24 pm
Post by: darkflagrance on August 29, 2015, 06:57:45 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 29, 2015, 07:04:14 pm
Hang on, isn't it in the prophecy that Belkar dies for good?ROY VS SUSPICIOUS URISTI bet Belkar
PLACE YA BETS
Could it be that Belkar takes down Durkon but by the laws has to be killed?
Post by: scriver on August 29, 2015, 07:10:19 pm
Another interesting thing I found while re-reading stuff was this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html) where dwarves who die of alcohol-related disease do NOT go to Hel. Look at the last few visible lines on that letter. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0375.html)
Just apropos nothing, or are you saying this has some kind of connection to current goings ons that I am not picking up?
Post by: Lord Shonus on August 29, 2015, 07:10:55 pm
Hang on, isn't it in the prophecy that Belkar dies for good?ROY VS SUSPICIOUS URISTI bet Belkar
PLACE YA BETS
Could it be that Belkar takes down Durkon but by the laws has to be killed?
Belkar is officially Durkon's bodyguard, same as Roy. If Belkar had to be killed, so would Roy.
Post by: Rolan7 on August 29, 2015, 07:15:50 pm
Post by: Akura on August 29, 2015, 07:16:48 pm
Another interesting thing I found while re-reading stuff was this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html) where dwarves who die of alcohol-related disease do NOT go to Hel. Look at the last few visible lines on that letter. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0375.html)
Just apropos nothing, or are you saying this has some kind of connection to current goings ons that I am not picking up?
No connection as far as I'm aware, just pointing it out. On the other hand, Durkon(not the vampire) does not know his grandfather is dead. The two might meet in the afterlife after the vampire is destroyed.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on August 29, 2015, 09:56:53 pm
Also, "Both of his livers".Another interesting thing I found while re-reading stuff was this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html) where dwarves who die of alcohol-related disease do NOT go to Hel. Look at the last few visible lines on that letter. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0375.html)
Just apropos nothing, or are you saying this has some kind of connection to current goings ons that I am not picking up?
No connection as far as I'm aware, just pointing it out. On the other hand, Durkon(not the vampire) does not know his grandfather is dead. The two might meet in the afterlife after the vampire is destroyed.
Post by: Remalle on August 31, 2015, 11:54:23 am
Edit: ooh, r/oots pointed out that this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0874.html) mentions Roy's ability to throw off Domination. With some nice Hel vs. Thor foreshadowing to boot!
Post by: heydude6 on August 31, 2015, 11:55:57 am
Post by: scrdest on August 31, 2015, 12:16:34 pm
Or he could simply be rolling well on the will rolls. This is still DnD afterall.Not mutually exclusive - that strip pretty much implies Roy has a good Will unlike most of everyone else in the party.
Also: 'snapoutta' has to be the most unsound effect ever written.
Post by: scriver on August 31, 2015, 12:20:01 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 31, 2015, 01:03:01 pm
Post by: LoSboccacc on August 31, 2015, 04:09:32 pm
This was a good update. A very good update.
yeah this thing is almost as derailed as berserk, nice seeing it moving forward
Post by: fillipk on August 31, 2015, 04:33:44 pm
Post by: Akura on August 31, 2015, 06:38:21 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on August 31, 2015, 06:46:49 pm
But I could see making an exception in this case.
Post by: smjjames on August 31, 2015, 07:03:35 pm
...Has anyone ever considered the idea that the Oracle was a lying sack of crap? Just a thought I had.
The Oracle is also really, really vague. Or can be anyway.
Post by: Sergius on August 31, 2015, 07:52:53 pm
Not mutually exclusive - that strip pretty much implies Roy has a good Will unlike most of everyone else in the party.
His Will still needs to come out of the Fighter table. His high Int score doesn't help Will at all, I think, so maybe he has a high Wis but I don't think that has been brought up. (there's also feats for that of course, who knows)
Post by: Lord Shonus on August 31, 2015, 08:10:21 pm
Not mutually exclusive - that strip pretty much implies Roy has a good Will unlike most of everyone else in the party.
His Will still needs to come out of the Fighter table. His high Int score doesn't help Will at all, I think, so maybe he has a high Wis but I don't think that has been brought up. (there's also feats for that of course, who knows)
Word Of God states that the Mind Flayer seeing Roy's brain as tastier than V's was that V has 18 Int and low WIS while Roy has high (but >18) INT and high WIS. Over on the GITP forums, the worked out that the vampire Durkon has a 50% chance of affecting Roy with Domination IF all of the unknown variables (just how bad WAS Durkon charisma, does Roy get a +2 circumstance bonus, etc.) line up in his favor.
Post by: Arcvasti on August 31, 2015, 08:14:05 pm
...Has anyone ever considered the idea that the Oracle was a lying sack of crap? Just a thought I had.
The Oracle is also really, really vague. Or can be anyway.
The prophecy of Durkon coming back to bring death and destruction on the dwarves wasn't FROM the Oracle, it was from the dwarven High Priest of Odin. And anything the Oracle says in the green and white text balloons is true.
Post by: MrWiggles on August 31, 2015, 08:53:41 pm
Post by: fillipk on August 31, 2015, 09:02:33 pm
So Roy dump stat is dex then?yeah and charisma sorta.
Post by: Arcvasti on August 31, 2015, 09:09:58 pm
So Roy dump stat is dex then?
Or they might be straight up rolling for their stats instead of using point buy, in which case Roy could have good or average everything.
EDIT: You know, I wonder if Roy gets a circumstance bonus to saving throws because Durkula dropped the accent all of a sudden.
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 02, 2015, 08:57:10 am
Quote
Banjo's high priest is Elan
is Elan around? banjo could be the demigod deus ex machina needed to tip the demigod vote at the last second
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 02, 2015, 09:02:02 am
So Roy dump stat is dex then?
He seems to have only middling STR, really.
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 02, 2015, 09:19:32 am
Oh man. I'm betting Roy's ability to snap out of Durkon's mind control is somehow taken from his experience with Girard's pyramid.Don't forget Roy is turkey brain (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0031.html)
Edit: ooh, r/oots pointed out that this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0874.html) mentions Roy's ability to throw off Domination. With some nice Hel vs. Thor foreshadowing to boot!
Post by: Rolan7 on September 03, 2015, 08:57:45 am
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 03, 2015, 10:09:23 am
Post by: Akura on September 03, 2015, 05:56:21 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on September 03, 2015, 06:18:02 pm
I wonder why people on the GitP forum are talking about Durkulon's DR. Isn't Roy's sword magical - assuming the DR doesn't require both silver and magic? They're also saying that if Roy does reduce his HP to zero, Durkulon will somehow end up at Girard's coffin. Even if that was how vampires work, Girard's coffin far, far more than nine miles away.
Vampire DR is "Silver AND Magic" not "Silver OR magic". Only a magic silver weapon will overcome it unless Starmetal bypasses all Undead DR as has been speculated.
Post by: Orange Wizard on September 03, 2015, 07:46:18 pm
Not at all?So Roy dump stat is dex then?He seems to have only middling STR, really.
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 03, 2015, 07:47:30 pm
Our only comparison is with the Orky barbarian which is not really a fair comparison since the Ork basically put everything into str, Roy's got to at least be above averageNot at all?So Roy dump stat is dex then?He seems to have only middling STR, really.
Post by: Akura on September 03, 2015, 07:50:07 pm
At least 16 is my guess.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 03, 2015, 08:25:30 pm
Post by: fillipk on September 03, 2015, 08:27:08 pm
Post by: Orange Wizard on September 03, 2015, 08:33:49 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on September 03, 2015, 09:29:32 pm
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0963.html
Also there's an antagonism between Captain Bandana and the CE, er, Chief Engineer set up over several strips:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0988.html
Post by: DAPARROT on September 04, 2015, 11:40:02 pm
Not charisma reallyactually he has decent charisma http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0490.html
Post by: i2amroy on September 08, 2015, 03:10:19 pm
Seems that "cancel spells" feat of Roy's is a home-brew thing, but at least we have a name for it now.
Post by: quinnr on September 08, 2015, 03:15:32 pm
Post by: scriver on September 08, 2015, 03:21:32 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 08, 2015, 03:28:06 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on September 08, 2015, 03:51:43 pm
... What do you mean it's "not that kind of drain"? Touch attacks can be delivered through any contact.
Post by: Akura on September 08, 2015, 04:43:32 pm
Post by: smjjames on September 08, 2015, 05:04:59 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on September 08, 2015, 07:58:35 pm
Could be a vampire's slam, which inflicts negative levels.
I'd say it probably is, since Roy didn't swordbop Durkula when they used it.
Post by: hops on September 10, 2015, 04:59:27 am
When did Roy learn that again? From his Dad's ghost?
Post by: Helgoland on September 10, 2015, 05:00:00 am
Post by: Akura on September 10, 2015, 05:27:01 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 10, 2015, 07:51:16 am
Post by: RedWarrior0 on September 11, 2015, 10:49:14 am
Post by: Orange Wizard on September 11, 2015, 05:21:40 pm
Post by: hops on September 11, 2015, 05:36:24 pm
Post by: Akura on September 11, 2015, 05:41:07 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on September 11, 2015, 05:44:32 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 11, 2015, 06:00:17 pm
Does that violate the rules of the Godsmoot?Does that violate the rules of gravity?
Post by: Rolan7 on September 11, 2015, 06:16:58 pm
Does that violate the rules of the Godsmoot?I assume not, on the technically that one is probably not required to respond to theft with aggressive action.
Post by: Akura on September 11, 2015, 06:19:22 pm
Looks like Roy decided to spring for some ranks in Jump, in case they needed to leap onto a flying zombie dragon again or something.
Pretty sure he still has that Ring of Jumping +20 that got him killed in the first place. Then again, that ring might be the only way Belkar would have survived that fall.
Post by: scriver on September 11, 2015, 06:25:21 pm
Post by: hops on September 11, 2015, 06:30:18 pm
Does that violate the rules of the Godsmoot?I doubt it. Roy is using the High Priest's spear, but the High Priest isn't fighting Durkula.
Post by: Orange Wizard on September 11, 2015, 06:31:17 pm
Post by: fillipk on September 11, 2015, 08:25:44 pm
Post by: hops on September 12, 2015, 02:08:51 am
Post by: Rolan7 on September 12, 2015, 09:12:01 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 12, 2015, 09:20:43 am
Post by: LoSboccacc on September 13, 2015, 05:37:44 am
Post by: RedWarrior0 on September 13, 2015, 09:29:42 am
They started on a previous edition so many skills allocation may be different from vanilla. First very comic was about this.Yep, 3.5, which they're talking about. As a crotchety old man, I consider it the last edition of D&D to be made.
Post by: Arx on September 13, 2015, 10:06:59 am
Post by: RedWarrior0 on September 13, 2015, 10:14:26 am
Post by: Sensei on September 13, 2015, 05:40:03 pm
They started on a previous edition so many skills allocation may be different from vanilla. First very comic was about this.Yep, 3.5, which they're talking about. As a crotchety old man, I consider it the last edition of D&D to be made.
And yeah the first comic is jokes about the changes from 3 to 3.5.
Post by: i2amroy on September 15, 2015, 11:47:26 am
Post by: Orange Wizard on September 15, 2015, 05:48:28 pm
Ah, I suppose. Though from the first page, it seems everything got adjusted to work in 3.5.It's vaguely explained that the world gets updated with each new D&D version, so the "campaign" potentially started way back with the very first edition ever and has gradually been dragged into the future.
New one is up.Roy is a really talky guy, huh.
Post by: Akura on September 15, 2015, 06:06:01 pm
Post by: Culise on September 15, 2015, 07:13:29 pm
Huh, that calls into question as to why Durkulon killed all the Creed of Stone priests, if they're needed to usher the demigod priests to the chamber. Somehow, even if he killed the demigod priests, I would doubt he'd have enough charges left in Malack's staff to insta-vamp them all. Or even the majority.All he needed to do was vamp one and kill the rest. Vampirizing more would give him a safety factor in case he missed a few. I wonder if that's not what's happening right now, actually. The first few that Durkula did personally could have been given the order to kill the others, then come to the chambers of their own accord once they'd finished their sweep. The alternative is that he planned on one of the high priests leaving the room to go fetch the demigods, but whoever that would invalidate their vote and break the tie in favor of the opposite side, so there's no possibility of that happening; they'd send a bodyguard as a messenger first.
Though, the catch with that theory is that we only saw him attacking Creed of Stone priests. Due to being powered by belief and the discussion one of them had with Durkula pre-vampirization, I'm fairly sure their creed doesn't qualify for tiebreaking status. The only other thing I can think of is instructing them to only collect the demigod priests that Durkula and Hel are certain will vote in their favour and claiming those are the only ones who showed up, especially since said priests' attendance records are apparently more than a little erratic under ordinary circumstances.
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 16, 2015, 07:01:37 am
Post by: Sergius on September 16, 2015, 09:36:36 am
May sound silly but it's a bit annoying of a plot hole to me.
Post by: andrea on September 16, 2015, 10:09:53 am
As for how this applies: Durkon was a follower of northern gods, so when he got vamped, the relevant deity, which is Hel, sent a spirit to control durkon's body. The vampire, however, still has all the abilities of the old durkon, as per D&D rules. But since the spirit controlling it was created by Hel for a specific purpose, he worships her. I am not aware of any particular rites needed to change religion.
Post by: Rolan7 on September 16, 2015, 10:18:16 am
As the Northern god of death, Hel has the power to provide the evil spirit for new Northern vampires. She chose a loyal negative energy spirit who, of course, worshipped her. Old-Malack was similarly hijacked by a dark spirit provided by Nurgle. It seems that, after absorbing the shaman's memories hundreds of years ago, the negative energy spirit considered itself the "real" Malack. Or was just half-lying. But Malack was definitely hijacked, Burlew confirmed that.
Technically these spirits are free-willed, and could decide to worship someone else. I think Burlew even said that a vampire cleric like Durkon could theoretically try to worship Thor. It's just that Thor probably wouldn't trust the vampire enough to provide divine powers. A rebellious vampire would not only be unlikely (due to being a negative energy spirit hand-picked by the appropriate death god) they would have a lot of trouble finding a non-evil patron.
Changing gods might usually require some ritual, but that's not what's happening here. The parasite is a new person, a death-god worshiper, who can use the host's class levels and memories. As for adapting rituals for a different god, there's not really anything in the SRD to support that. In the comic it's not addressed very seriously, but Durkon did order spells from the divine phone system a couple times. Preparing spells is seemingly just something clerics can do. Classes and their odd powers are just accepted in this world.
Post by: i2amroy on September 16, 2015, 02:46:17 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 16, 2015, 02:47:43 pm
Here's what I want to know; why hasn't Roy's sword done the glowing green +damage thing in the fight yet? It's supposed to trigger against undead in general, not just liches.
It happens randomly I thought.
Post by: Rolan7 on September 16, 2015, 02:54:07 pm
Post by: hops on September 16, 2015, 03:39:25 pm
Post by: Orange Wizard on September 16, 2015, 05:01:36 pm
It happens randomly I thought.It happens when he grits his teeth.
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 16, 2015, 05:13:26 pm
It happens randomly I thought.It happens when he grits his teeth.
Maybe he's related to Stannis the Mannis?
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 18, 2015, 09:03:06 am
Post by: RedWarrior0 on September 21, 2015, 07:39:28 am
Post by: Rolan7 on September 21, 2015, 08:14:52 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: smjjames on September 21, 2015, 08:20:10 am
Post by: fillipk on September 21, 2015, 09:16:57 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 21, 2015, 09:39:01 am
It happens randomly I thought.It happens when he grits his teeth.
Well there goes that theory.
Post by: smjjames on September 21, 2015, 09:43:39 am
Enter Belkar
Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking too. This is traditionally about the point where someone comes to the hero's aid, or the hero pulls off a badass or something. Burlew could always buck tradition though.
Post by: birdy51 on September 21, 2015, 10:50:59 am
Post by: Greiger on September 21, 2015, 02:39:07 pm
(or at least thor's high priestess after that comment.)
Post by: i2amroy on September 21, 2015, 03:17:23 pm
I'm thinking all the dwarves in the room decide to dogpile Durkula. Break the agreement and have a death in battle and a chance of saving the world over a minimum 50% chance of serving hel for eternity? Where's my axe?Oh, that actually might be worth it for them. If they die in battle they don't go to Hel (though it's a bit questionable if breaking an oath like that would make the following battle "dishonorable" on not, though I bet I know which side Thor would take :P) so they might consider that a better deal than suffering in Hel for all eternity.
(or at least thor's high priestess after that comment.)
Post by: Helgoland on September 21, 2015, 03:29:17 pm
so they might consider that a better deal than suffering in Hel for all eternity.I have a dirty mind.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on September 21, 2015, 04:40:25 pm
Post by: birdy51 on September 21, 2015, 04:54:24 pm
Post by: Bauglir on September 21, 2015, 05:00:24 pm
You know things are bad then when Loki and Thor are advocating for the same thing. It's downright frightening really!They're actually historically pretty good buddies who often go on adventures together. Although I suppose I can't speak for OotS.
Post by: heydude6 on September 21, 2015, 05:43:24 pm
Fixed that for you.You know things are bad then when Loki and Thor are advocating for the same thing. It's downright frightening really!They were actually historically pretty good buddies who often go on adventures together. Although I suppose I can't speak for OotS.
Post by: Bauglir on September 21, 2015, 06:02:53 pm
up until that whole baldr thing
that didn't go over well
Post by: birdy51 on September 21, 2015, 06:33:19 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on September 30, 2015, 08:32:26 am
...Damn, that's a good one.
Post by: fillipk on September 30, 2015, 09:59:34 am
Post by: Lord Shonus on September 30, 2015, 10:02:06 am
I the thing is the vampire sort of disproved his point, he and dirk on aren't the same, because otherwise he wouldn't have to keep Durkon restrained. Also the priests were pretty stupid, if the prophecy said that when he returns blah de blah de blah... Don't let him leave.
That's covered in the prequel book On The Origin of PCs. The prophecy is "When next he returns home, he will bring death and destruction to us all." The High Priest Of Odin interpreted that as "if Durkon leaves his house and comes back, we all die."
Post by: fillipk on September 30, 2015, 10:03:46 am
Post by: heydude6 on September 30, 2015, 02:31:44 pm
Post by: Harry Baldman on September 30, 2015, 02:32:58 pm
Are they still in stock?
On the Origin of PCs has a digital version for 10 bucks. No Start of Darkness yet, though.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on October 08, 2015, 10:25:09 pm
Post by: Sergius on October 08, 2015, 11:35:59 pm
Post by: hops on October 08, 2015, 11:42:18 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on October 09, 2015, 03:03:03 am
Post by: Akura on October 09, 2015, 04:49:18 am
Spoiler: I wonder how this is going to end now (click to show/hide)
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 09, 2015, 05:20:54 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: BFEL on October 09, 2015, 06:19:55 am
so it'd be pretty holeyLEL
Post by: RedWarrior0 on October 19, 2015, 09:06:30 am
Post by: fillipk on October 19, 2015, 09:20:01 am
Post by: i2amroy on October 19, 2015, 10:24:53 am
Post by: Rolan7 on October 19, 2015, 10:29:46 am
Post by: Sergius on October 19, 2015, 10:36:20 am
Post by: Zangi on October 19, 2015, 10:46:24 am
There is no practical use mentioning how Roy's little brother was mauled, other then for cruelties sake. Or I guess as a cruel form of taunting.
Post by: Sergius on October 19, 2015, 10:51:24 am
EDIT: However "one thing I've always wondered" would be a bad slip. He couldn't have "always wondered" including back when he was good.
Post by: Rolan7 on October 19, 2015, 11:04:21 am
Wild guess: Durkon fed the vampire-thing some fake or altered memory... somehow.Somehow tying into the incident where Durkula failed to make the connection between Durkon helping his mother with dishes too much, then not helping Roy with the frogbeast.
I don't see how yet though...
Post by: Bauglir on October 19, 2015, 11:20:47 am
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 19, 2015, 12:31:23 pm
nvm the giant explains
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?452083-OOTS-1009-The-Discussion-Thread&p=19967620#post19967620
honestly, pretty weak for having us wait this much
Post by: i2amroy on October 19, 2015, 12:33:07 pm
anyone has the link to the strip where they talk about this?If they have it hasn't been in the web-available strips AFAIK.
Post by: Culise on October 19, 2015, 12:37:07 pm
anyone has the link to the strip where they talk about this?I don't recall if it was shown. I looked in their forums to see if someone else remembered, but the most I found was The Giant telling everyone that Durkon cannot show Durkula any false memories. What Durkula cannot do, as Rolan7 noted, is spot inconsistencies, but apparently that wasn't what he was aiming for, either.
Link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19967620&postcount=39)
Quote from: The Giant
Quote from: Seerowwonder if we're going to actually get to see what Durkon showed to HPOH and what caused him to get it mixed up like that. Hoping the next strip is Durkon gloating.He showed him Roy telling him the story about what happened with Eric. That's it.Quote from: Gift JeraffI think Roy is just realizing that this level of sadism doesn't fit "Durkon, but Evil," especially since he's claiming Durkon was a jerk retroactively ("one thing I've always wondered").Yes, exactly. This is a tactical error on the part of the vampire, not a trick on the part of Durkon.
Which is kinda disappointing; I was hoping for Durkon to be more of an active participant in the realization. I suppose that does suggest that Chekhov's gun is still loaded on the mantle, but still...
Post by: scrdest on October 19, 2015, 01:26:53 pm
Post by: Akura on October 19, 2015, 01:36:28 pm
Since I have not seen the non-web comics, the only thing that shows anything related to Eric Greenhilt's death was this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0496.html).
Post by: fillipk on October 19, 2015, 03:26:28 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on October 19, 2015, 03:41:19 pm
I think Roy accidently killed his brother but I haven't seen the non-webcomic stuff either
No, Roy pretty explicitly stated that it's Eugene's fault because he was experimenting with magic unsafely. Roy just feels some of the blame.
Post by: fillipk on October 19, 2015, 05:03:26 pm
Post by: Orange Wizard on October 19, 2015, 05:31:09 pm
That's... uncharacteristically dumb of the writing. It's a turn of the phrase, FFS. And especially in context of the gloating here.Also this. I choose to ignore the "always wondered" part and have Roy's realisation come from Durkula being really cruel.
Post by: Playergamer on October 19, 2015, 08:22:15 pm
I don't see the problem with the writing.
Post by: heydude6 on October 19, 2015, 09:11:19 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on October 19, 2015, 10:29:57 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on October 19, 2015, 10:35:58 pm
Further, the vampire has only seen one memory of learning about Roy's brother, and there may well be more to the story that he hasn't viewed, thus cluing Roy in that the attempt at sadism doesn't make sense.
Post by: scriver on October 20, 2015, 08:16:05 am
Post by: scrdest on October 20, 2015, 09:54:47 am
I think you're all falling for the giant's red herring and what made Roy realise it wasn't Durkon has something to do with the off-hand Belkar comment rather than the brother tangent Durkola goes on :vSure, except that means Rich told a straight-up lie on the forums.
Post by: scriver on October 20, 2015, 10:26:03 am
Post by: scrdest on October 20, 2015, 10:28:23 am
That would never happen :vIt's not impossible, but it's not an option with the least assumptions.
Post by: scriver on October 20, 2015, 11:05:52 am
Post by: Zangi on October 20, 2015, 11:10:43 am
I think you're all falling for the giant's red herring and what made Roy realise it wasn't Durkon has something to do with the off-hand Belkar comment rather than the brother tangent Durkola goes on :v... It is Belkar you are talking about.
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 20, 2015, 11:27:14 am
Post by: scrdest on October 20, 2015, 04:04:22 pm
Isn't "he is lying" just as many assumptions as "he is telling the truth"?It's not the optimal phrasing but I wrote it just after a long stretch of classes and, crucially, before a coffee.
Same as always, if you are known for deliberately lying, and, as is the case, the lie will be verified, you're undercutting your own credibility in the long run. Kinda not good if you plan to actually discuss the plot on the forums.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on October 27, 2015, 07:38:24 pm
Post by: heydude6 on October 27, 2015, 07:41:15 pm
Post by: Strife26 on October 27, 2015, 07:42:54 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on October 27, 2015, 07:46:09 pm
Post by: smjjames on October 27, 2015, 07:50:13 pm
Dominate a priest to start the loyalty cascade.
I don't think that would neccesarily work as the priest obviously wouldn't be doing it under their own will.
I doubt they have any contingency plans for 'priest-that-is-a-vampire goes rogue and dominates another priest and attacks people' though.
There would be no cascade. Once the HpoH used an offensive ability on another priest, he would be destroyed either by the gods or by the priests.
What if they are acting in self defense?
Post by: Lord Shonus on October 27, 2015, 07:56:10 pm
What if they are acting in self defense?
If a priest is forced to defend itself from anything other than their own bodyguard, the attacker has become Kill-On-Sight and they are required to be destroyed.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1000.html
According to the Giant, this is to prevent divine feuding.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on October 27, 2015, 08:01:21 pm
I think if he goes for the
However, the whole strip says interesting things about Roy's sword.
Spoiler: New strip spoilers, just in case anyone cares; also speculation (click to show/hide)
Post by: heydude6 on October 27, 2015, 08:03:42 pm
Post by: Akura on October 27, 2015, 08:21:57 pm
Explanation of what the starmetal did. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0297.html) In short, it's a +5 sword, with a special property that does extra damage to undead when it glows - presumed to be on a natural 20.Spoiler: New strip spoilers, just in case anyone cares; also speculation (click to show/hide)
Post by: hops on October 27, 2015, 08:27:53 pm
Post by: fillipk on October 27, 2015, 08:37:43 pm
Post by: Orange Wizard on October 27, 2015, 08:40:50 pm
Post by: i2amroy on October 28, 2015, 12:17:56 am
the fact that Roy's healedLooking back, this actually happened in the very last panel of the 1009, when he first does the green glowing sword thing. He goes from the second to last panel all beat up to a last panel that gives the appearance of his wounds literally closing (and then being totally gone in the first panel of this one).
Post by: Arx on October 28, 2015, 12:36:34 am
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on October 28, 2015, 12:45:56 am
Pretty sure Roy's healed because he chugged a healing potion.Do healing potions regenerate damage over time? Because if not, from what I can see, he was still battle damaged after drinking the potion.
Post by: fillipk on October 28, 2015, 12:52:58 am
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on October 28, 2015, 01:03:38 am
Turns out that I'm an idiot, and that's not an actual enchantment. Please continue.
Post by: i2amroy on October 28, 2015, 01:07:16 am
They don't, and if you look he is actually healed right when he drinks the potion, it's just then he gets a large chunk of building smashed on top of him to bring his HP down again.Pretty sure Roy's healed because he chugged a healing potion.Do healing potions regenerate damage over time? Because if not, from what I can see, he was still battle damaged after drinking the potion.
Whatever this is, it's definitely not the potion he just drank.
Post by: hops on October 28, 2015, 02:22:40 am
Rich Burlew is pretty much the Patron God of Homebrewing.Vampiric against undead, perhaps?
Turns out that I'm an idiot, and that's not an actual enchantment. Please continue.
Post by: BFEL on October 28, 2015, 06:30:42 am
Explanation of what the starmetal did. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0297.html) In short, it's a +5 sword, with a special property that does extra damage to undead when it glows - presumed to be on a natural 20.Interesting note: When she explains about the green glow she says "particularly harmful to undead" not "ONLY harmful to undead"
So theoretically it could also harm the wielder, thus perhaps being why she was suggesting countermeasures.
It ALSO might "harm" the wielder in a non-physical way. Like "powered by your soul" or something like that.
So it might actually be a BAD thing that Roy got healed up.
Post by: Akura on October 28, 2015, 06:36:15 am
Post by: Arx on October 28, 2015, 06:55:29 am
They don't, and if you look he is actually healed right when he drinks the potion, it's just then he gets a large chunk of building smashed on top of him to bring his HP down again.Pretty sure Roy's healed because he chugged a healing potion.Do healing potions regenerate damage over time? Because if not, from what I can see, he was still battle damaged after drinking the potion.
Whoops, forgot how DnD healing potions work. I blame the fact that my group hasn't met in months.
Post by: Criptfeind on October 28, 2015, 10:18:58 am
Post by: smjjames on October 28, 2015, 11:06:30 am
Explanation of what the starmetal did. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0297.html) In short, it's a +5 sword, with a special property that does extra damage to undead when it glows - presumed to be on a natural 20.Interesting note: When she explains about the green glow she says "particularly harmful to undead" not "ONLY harmful to undead"
So theoretically it could also harm the wielder, thus perhaps being why she was suggesting countermeasures.
I thought that was a continuation of the whole 'magic is blocked by lead, and thus, magc=radiation' joke. Even the "deadly green glow" description connects to that joke.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on October 28, 2015, 11:45:02 am
Post by: smjjames on October 28, 2015, 11:58:49 am
Well, in DND lead can genuinely block a lot of scrying affects.
Oh..... didn't know that.
Post by: Lord Shonus on October 28, 2015, 03:15:49 pm
They don't, and if you look he is actually healed right when he drinks the potion, it's just then he gets a large chunk of building smashed on top of him to bring his HP down again.Pretty sure Roy's healed because he chugged a healing potion.Do healing potions regenerate damage over time? Because if not, from what I can see, he was still battle damaged after drinking the potion.
Whatever this is, it's definitely not the potion he just drank.
Not only that, but the scuffs that Rich uses to indicate level drain are also gone, and there's no Potion of Restoration in RAW.
Post by: i2amroy on October 28, 2015, 03:18:16 pm
Not only that, but the scuffs that Rich uses to indicate level drain are also gone, and there's no Potion of Restoration in RAW.Wait, what scuffs are these? I haven't noticed them before.
Post by: Lord Shonus on October 28, 2015, 03:27:57 pm
Not only that, but the scuffs that Rich uses to indicate level drain are also gone, and there's no Potion of Restoration in RAW.Wait, what scuffs are these? I haven't noticed them before.
Look at the last two panels here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1004.html). Note the mark that appears on Roy's chin. Similar marks appeared when Sabine was level draining him before.
Post by: i2amroy on October 28, 2015, 03:29:07 pm
Post by: scrdest on October 28, 2015, 03:31:53 pm
Well, in DND lead can genuinely block a lot of scrying affects.Scrying confirmed for electromagnetism.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on October 28, 2015, 04:07:36 pm
Quote from: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm
Scrying
A scrying spell creates an invisible magical sensor that sends you information. Unless noted otherwise, the sensor has the same powers of sensory acuity that you possess. This level of acuity includes any spells or effects that target you, but not spells or effects that emanate from you. However, the sensor is treated as a separate, independent sensory organ of yours, and thus it functions normally even if you have been blinded, deafened, or otherwise suffered sensory impairment.
Any creature with an Intelligence score of 12 or higher can notice the sensor by making a DC 20 Intelligence check. The sensor can be dispelled as if it were an active spell.
Lead sheeting or magical protection blocks a scrying spell, and you sense that the spell is so blocked.
Post by: Rolan7 on October 28, 2015, 04:31:34 pm
Post by: hops on October 28, 2015, 06:43:01 pm
Post by: smjjames on October 28, 2015, 06:47:35 pm
Better than that one asshole who roll for grapple when he's surrounded.
Heh, I've heard that the grapple rules are pretty labrynthine.
Post by: TheBiggerFish on October 28, 2015, 06:54:34 pm
Post by: Criptfeind on October 30, 2015, 12:28:30 pm
Better than that one asshole who roll for grapple when he's surrounded.
Heh, I've heard that the grapple rules are pretty labrynthine.
They honestly aren't. It's basically take an attack of opportunity (if you don't have the grappler feat) and if the AOO fails, you two make normal attacks on each other, if you beat their result you're grappling, which is just a list of effects and possible actions you can take.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on October 30, 2015, 12:30:40 pm
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 30, 2015, 05:06:32 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on October 30, 2015, 05:13:50 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 06, 2015, 09:27:14 am
Post by: Criptfeind on November 06, 2015, 09:48:37 am
Post by: Culise on November 06, 2015, 10:14:13 am
New one is up (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1011.html). Here's hoping something to do with Belkar saving the day.Well, he does still have that Protection from Evil amulet, which among other things grants a bonus on saves against any effects created by evil creatures.
Post by: fillipk on November 06, 2015, 10:25:21 am
Post by: NAV on November 06, 2015, 10:57:15 am
Post by: Rolan7 on November 06, 2015, 12:45:02 pm
Spoiler: Just to be safe even though there's no way this'll happen (click to show/hide)
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 06, 2015, 12:48:44 pm
Warning, donning tin-foil hat :PSpoiler: Just to be safe even though there's no way this'll happen (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Culise on November 06, 2015, 12:57:10 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rolan7 on November 06, 2015, 01:11:40 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Reminds me of Black MageSpoiler (click to show/hide)
http://www.nuklearpower.com/2005/10/18/episode-613-mirror-master/
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 06, 2015, 03:05:39 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)Reminds me of Black MageSpoiler (click to show/hide)
http://www.nuklearpower.com/2005/10/18/episode-613-mirror-master/
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Zangi on November 06, 2015, 03:20:02 pm
Spoiler: Belkar (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rolan7 on November 06, 2015, 03:58:46 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: hops on November 06, 2015, 04:12:53 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 06, 2015, 04:15:45 pm
Post by: Culise on November 06, 2015, 04:17:53 pm
I think we can set aside spoilers for a rules discussion. In any case, I believe it's the other way around if I'm reading the SRD correctly. The victim who is drained (type of drain unspecified) to zero CON revives as a vampire if they have 5 or more Hit Dice. Of the two types of drain, Blood Drain reduces the victim's CON, while Energy Drain causes negative levels but does not directly affect CON. As well, a victim of Energy Drain (explicitly specified) will only revive as a vampire spawn after 1d4 days; that method does not permit full vamps.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rolan7 on November 06, 2015, 04:46:55 pm
Quote from: Create Spawn
A humanoid or monstrous humanoid slain by a vampire’s energy drain rises as a vampire spawn 1d4 days after burial.Energy drain is a specific ability, different from blood draining. Blood draining shouldn't even create a wight I don't think, since it's just an ability that deals CON damage (presumably due to bloodloss, but...). Death ward wouldn't help against it either, it's not negative energy.
... Heheh, it would work against plant enemies. Drink their sap! The target just needs to be alive. So, wait... Haha, elementals are totes alive too. Drink a water elemental! Nibble an earth elemental!
Only undead and constructs know peace from this horror
(Sadly, only humanoids and monstrous humanoids can actually get vamped though)
Post by: Culise on November 06, 2015, 05:02:22 pm
I don't think the blood drain counts:I base my understanding based on the following two passages from the full text of both the Blood Drain and Create Spawn abilities, emphasis mine.Quote from: Create SpawnA humanoid or monstrous humanoid slain by a vampire’s energy drain rises as a vampire spawn 1d4 days after burial.Energy drain is a specific ability, different from blood draining. Blood draining shouldn't even create a wight I don't think, since it's just an ability that deals CON damage (presumably due to bloodloss, but...). Death ward wouldn't help against it either, it's not negative energy.
... Heheh, it would work against plant enemies. Drink their sap! The target just needs to be alive. So, wait... Haha, elementals are totes alive too. Drink a water elemental! Nibble an earth elemental!
Only undead and constructs know peace from this horror
(Sadly, only humanoids and monstrous humanoids can actually get vamped though)
Quote from: Blood Drain (Ex)
A vampire can suck blood from a living victim with its fangs by making a successful grapple check. If it pins the foe, it drains blood, dealing 1d4 points of Constitution drain each round the pin is maintained. On each such successful attack, the vampire gains 5 temporary hit points.
Quote from: Create Spawn (Su)
A humanoid or monstrous humanoid slain by a vampire’s energy drain rises as a vampire spawn 1d4 days after burial."Instead," in this case, should be taken as a contrast to the immediately preceding line, and by implication the use of energy drain (which as noted, does not affect CON directly). But yes, anything with a CON score could theoretically be affected. You are correct, however, that without the second half of the Create Spawn ability, a CON drain would not create anything by RAW. That's likely why particular rules for that case were included in the Vampire's abilities, and also why they were not included with the Vampire Spawn abilities.
If the vampire instead drains the victim’s Constitution to 0 or lower, the victim returns as a spawn if it had 4 or less HD and as a vampire if it had 5 or more HD. In either case, the new vampire or spawn is under the command of the vampire that created it and remains enslaved until its master’s destruction. At any given time a vampire may have enslaved spawn totaling no more than twice its own Hit Dice; any spawn it creates that would exceed this limit are created as free-willed vampires or vampire spawn. A vampire that is enslaved may create and enslave spawn of its own, so a master vampire can control a number of lesser vampires in this fashion. A vampire may voluntarily free an enslaved spawn in order to enslave a new spawn, but once freed, a vampire or vampire spawn cannot be enslaved again.
...
Hmmm, such a shame constructs don't have CON scores. and that restriction on humanoid and monstrous humanoid base creature exists. Vampiric modrons... :3
Post by: Rolan7 on November 06, 2015, 05:12:01 pm
Yeah I totally misread the text of Create Spawn repeatedly. Thanks! (:
(Sorry for making so many posts about this, I kinda enjoy discussing rules like this!)
Post by: Culise on November 06, 2015, 05:19:07 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on November 06, 2015, 06:11:00 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
For reference:
Vampires in OOtS involve whatever god of (un)death has jurisdiction creating an evil spirit and shoving it it, with the original soul being bound inside. That's how it worked for Malack, that's how it worked for Durkon, and that is how it would hypothetically work for Belkar.
Quote from: The Giant
There is absolutely zero difference between Malack and Durkon's vampirizations, with the sole exception that Hel made the spirit sitting in Durkon's head while Nergal made the one that was sitting in Malack's. Hel is able to put that spirit into Durkon's body because of the physical vampirization process that Malack enacts on Durkon's corpse, which opens a door to Negative Energy and traps Durkon's spirit inside it. Which would also be true of any other vampire created from a person who fell under the Northern Pantheon's domain, though she wouldn't take a personal interest in just any person because they wouldn't be a powerful cleric.
Hel does not have rightful dominion over Durkon's soul as part of her normal assignment of dishonored souls, however, because Durkon did in fact die in battle. She got involved because she is also, separately, the Northern deity of undeath, and one of her "duties" is making the evil spirits for all Northern vampires. The vampirization process basically jammed up the normal disposition of Durkon's soul by trapping it inside the undead body. Where Durkon's actual soul ends up will not be determined until/unless it is freed. It's a like a naturally occurring Trap the Soul spell.
Nothing that happens with vampires in this comic can be extrapolated to work similarly with other undead. All types of undead work differently, that's why they are different types in the first place. Xykon is still Xykon.
All of Malack's dialogue regarding who he is/was should be viewed through the lens of me not wanting to spoil the scene from #946. Some of what he says is metaphorical and all of it is deliberately ambiguous, because I was consciously trying to make you think one thing while another thing was actually true. As a rule of thumb, it is not in my interest to lock down the metaphysics of things if I don't have to, so don't expect that I will have characters exposition How Things Work just to clear up your confusion.
Likewise, any assumptions that characters in the comic know or understand the details of how this process occurs on a detailed internal level should be thrown out the window. They don't. Being a vampire is super-rare; being returned to life after being a vampire so you can share the logistics of how it worked from your point of view in such a way that it entered a general body of knowledge that people would have learned about in the course of their education is simply not something that has ever occurred.
I'm sure there are more byzantine arguments going around that I'm missing, but really, this isn't as complicated as most of you are making it. There is only one way that vampirization works, and it overrides the natural order of things, including where souls go. That's why everyone says things like, "That's against the natural order of things!" about it. However, Hel is not breaking the rules of vampirization itself at all.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?339912-Vampire-question-settled/page8&p=17327934#post17327934
Post by: Bauglir on November 06, 2015, 09:01:57 pm
Antilife Shell doesn't allow a save. You're pretty much fucked if you're alive and never thought to get a ranged weapon or other attack method, and your opponent doesn't need to move toward you to win.New one is up (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1011.html). Here's hoping something to do with Belkar saving the day.Well, he does still have that Protection from Evil amulet, which among other things grants a bonus on saves against any effects created by evil creatures.
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on November 06, 2015, 09:06:13 pm
Post by: Sergius on November 06, 2015, 09:35:39 pm
Post by: scriver on November 07, 2015, 03:51:13 am
Antilife Shell doesn't allow a save. You're pretty much fucked if you're alive and never thought to get a ranged weapon or other attack method, and your opponent doesn't need to move toward you to win.New one is up (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1011.html). Here's hoping something to do with Belkar saving the day.Well, he does still have that Protection from Evil amulet, which among other things grants a bonus on saves against any effects created by evil creatures.
Unless there's a wall behind you they can squash you up against.
Post by: Akura on November 07, 2015, 05:35:58 am
Roy's best bet is pretty much to throw his sword. Or grab the the HPoO's spear again and try to nail Durkon through the heart with it.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 16, 2015, 10:03:19 am
Post by: Akura on November 16, 2015, 10:54:43 am
Guess that staff has a few more charges left after all.
Post by: Culise on November 16, 2015, 11:01:49 am
ah! just found an interesting tidbit on redditQuoteBanjo's high priest is Elan
is Elan around? banjo could be the demigod deus ex machina needed to tip the demigod vote at the last second...if Elan could cast proxy.actually not needed since the proxy is the toy itself. probably.
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 16, 2015, 11:52:06 am
...well, then.ah! just found an interesting tidbit on redditQuoteBanjo's high priest is Elan
is Elan around? banjo could be the demigod deus ex machina needed to tip the demigod vote at the last second...if Elan could cast proxy.actually not needed since the proxy is the toy itself. probably.
actually I later discoverfed that banjo refused to be part of the pantheon
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0137.html
Post by: smjjames on November 16, 2015, 12:00:00 pm
Post by: heydude6 on November 16, 2015, 06:33:22 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 16, 2015, 06:48:40 pm
Post by: Xantalos on November 16, 2015, 06:52:49 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 16, 2015, 06:55:44 pm
The vampire on the airship? He's the guy who escorted Durkon (https://twitter.com/RichBurlew/status/666284703239028736).Oooooooooohhh. Right. Forgot about him, thought he was gonna come back eventually.
Post by: smjjames on November 19, 2015, 08:46:48 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on November 19, 2015, 08:48:41 pm
WAAAITAMINUTE, theres 7 demigod priests but only 6 of them spoke. The dwarf in the blue tunic didn't say anything.Yup...
Post by: smjjames on November 19, 2015, 08:54:52 pm
"Seven new priests walk into the room; six of them have voted so far. Three Yes's, Three No's. The vote is therefore currently tied.
But the seventh priest—the dwarf in blue robes in panel #1—has not voted yet. Durkon specifically says that there is one more vote left to cast. Why did the seventh priest not vote yet? Because Hel and Hermod had a little conversation instead, and then the comic cut away to another scene.
Hel is upset because if Hermod had voted her way, that would have made the count 4-2, and it would not have mattered how the last priest voted at all—she would have already won.
The dwarf vampire is former Exarch of the Creed of the Stone, Gontor Hammerfell, last seen being bitten on the neck by a vampire (as is often the case before becoming a vampire). He is not the same dwarf as the dwarf in panel #1; Gontor does not have a vote.
Durkon sped up the vampirization process off-camera using the spell Malack used to speed up Durkon's own vampirization, because Durkon owns Malack's staff.
Are there any other questions about what is going on in this strip? I'm thinking I must have done a really bad job on this one if everyone is so confused. "
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 24, 2015, 12:53:07 pm
Post by: Orange Wizard on November 25, 2015, 04:26:57 am
Post by: scrdest on November 25, 2015, 06:03:05 am
That was a lot of dialogue and no real plot progression. Curse you, Rich.My thoughts exactly. Which means it will most likely turn out to be extremely relevant 473 panels from now.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on December 02, 2015, 10:37:21 pm
Post by: heydude6 on December 02, 2015, 11:19:03 pm
Reminds me of dishonored and 1984. I hope this ends well.
Post by: hops on December 02, 2015, 11:26:41 pm
Post by: Orange Wizard on December 02, 2015, 11:27:26 pm
Post by: heydude6 on December 02, 2015, 11:29:26 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on December 03, 2015, 12:16:55 am
Post by: Orange Wizard on December 03, 2015, 12:34:23 am
Post by: scrdest on December 03, 2015, 01:34:11 am
I have trouble finding reanimated bloodsucking corpses adorable.Weirdo.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 03, 2015, 02:25:08 am
I have trouble finding reanimated bloodsucking corpses adorable.Just stare into their eyes...
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 03, 2015, 03:19:19 am
I'm expecting next to see the bard being chased out of town because he's ugly.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on December 03, 2015, 10:11:04 am
so far we had the agile character falling, the high wisdom character getting distracted, the highly intelligent mage failing to picking up clues.
I'm expecting next to see the bard being chased out of town because he's ugly.
Hey, sometimes people botch their rolls.
Post by: Akura on December 04, 2015, 09:01:07 pm
By the way, does that T-Rex still have its original Hit Die? That might explain how it beat the vamp's damage resistance.
Post by: Culise on December 04, 2015, 09:06:13 pm
A natural 1 is an automatic fail in most cases.It did retain its hit dice and hit points (and languages, though that's less relevant for an animal) at the time the spell was cast, but since it's been Baleful Polymorphed for over a day, it failed its will save to shake off the spell and lost its extra hit dice and hit points. In other words, it's basically a 1 HD lizard per RAW, neglecting any "rule of story" tweaks made by Rich.
By the way, does that T-Rex still have its original Hit Die? That might explain how it beat the vamp's damage resistance.
Post by: TheBiggerFish on December 04, 2015, 11:28:45 pm
.... Can that even happen?
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on December 04, 2015, 11:48:49 pm
There's no rule that says it can't.
Post by: Xantalos on December 05, 2015, 02:29:02 am
Post by: Rolan7 on December 05, 2015, 10:15:25 am
Quote
Class LevelsBut the thread points out that there are prestige classes for dragons. Also I think Savage Species is the most advanced canon authority on this, since it's pretty much a book about customizing monsters. (I've barely read it though)
Intelligent creatures that are reasonably humanoid in shape most commonly advance by adding class levels. Creatures that fall into this category have an entry of "By character class" in their Advancement line. When a monster adds a class level, that level usually represents an increase in experience and learned skills and capabilities.
Increased Hit Dice
Intelligent creatures that are not humanoid in shape, and nonintelligent monsters, can advance by increasing their Hit Dice. Creatures with increased Hit Dice are usually superior specimens of their race, bigger and more powerful than their run-of-the-mill fellows.
Read more: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?353427-Animals-gaining-levels-in-PC-classes&s=56dc3caa7056d5bfd5ea1002c943aef8#ixzz3tSWtcrHF
I think I'd let any creature with >2 intelligence take class levels. No animals or oozes. Mindless undead don't retain any class levels. These things are supposed to advance by HD, which generally sucks but sometimes makes them bigger.
While a dragon is supposed to advance by HD too, making it larger and improving its natural abilities in a way similar to class levels... But I could see a dragon instead choosing to pursue a training regimen designed for mortals. I haven't really looked at dragons much though, our campaign didn't have them. I thought they were able to take human form, but I don't actually see that here...
Edit: Cat wizard lich sounds awesome, and could happen if some druid "awakened" it. It would need 10 int to actually cast anything... And I think becoming a lich does require being able to cast certain spells.
Post by: TheBiggerFish on December 05, 2015, 10:28:56 am
Post by: Greiger on December 05, 2015, 12:11:28 pm
At any rate if I recall correctly the animal companions would be treated as (0.5 x Belkar's level), with increased hit dice. I think they should also be able to cast as a ranger any of Belkar's spells. Which as a high level ranger he should have, but I never saw him use any, so he might have a wis score below 11. It's probably a toss up whether he has spells and just can't cast them, or just never bothered.
EDIT: Forgot that it's half level for rangers, druids are what have pets that match their full level.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 05, 2015, 12:26:27 pm
Rich made an interesting rant and alternate rule set for diplomacy (also for polymorphing magic). It was mostly a nerf, but what we're seeing here would still be quite possible if Bloodfeast (an allosaurus, apparently) resented the Empire of Blood.
RAW diplomacy is very vague and probably overpowered, so it's already up to dm fiat a lot. Which means that rule of awesome has even more reign than usual.
Post by: Orange Wizard on December 05, 2015, 07:54:34 pm
rules as wrottenQuality typo
Post by: TheBiggerFish on December 06, 2015, 12:24:25 am
Post by: Akura on December 13, 2015, 11:11:25 am
Post by: i2amroy on December 13, 2015, 09:48:41 pm
It probably has levels. </joke>Considering that we've sort of established that there is no rule actively prohibiting it, and the fact that it was at one point used by none other than Tarquin as a mount I wouldn't view it as too far fetched. I could totally see Tarquin employing some sort of roundabout loophole method to give all of his planned personal mounts every possible advantage that he ever could through every cheating and plot-knowledgeable way he can dig up. (Maybe he hits them with Fox's Cunning to raise their intelligence and then teaches them enough to grant them levels or something :P)
.... Can that even happen?
Post by: Rolan7 on December 13, 2015, 10:20:42 pm
It might still have its original HP and HD if it passed the will save (unlikely) but that wouldn't boost its attack... Yeah that's super weird actually, how the hell did a lizard overcome a vampire's damage resistance? They do 1d4-4! (So, 1)
...Basic T-Rex (which I assume this is based on, even though the wiki insists it's an allosaurus) has one level of Improved Natural Attack (Bite). If it passed the will save it still has that, bringing its bite up to... 1d6-4. Vampire spawn have DR 5/silver (full vampires have 10, but maybe this priest's just a spawn). Bloodfeast could overcome the DR with two more levels of Improved Natural Attack, which is actually possible without class levels AFAIK. I think animals still gain feats every three levels, they're just limited in what they can choose. So instead of being an 18HD T-Rex, it'd be 24HD or thereabouts.
If it reached 37HD it would become gargantuan! Wolves do this too... Normal 3HD ones are medium, but 4-6HD ones are large. Kinda surprising since humans are medium, and these aren't even dire wolves. Interestingly, dire wolves start at 7HD, kinda hinting that a 7HD wolf should become a dire wolf.
Post by: Sergius on December 14, 2015, 10:18:25 am
If it reached 37HD it would become gargantuan! Wolves do this too... Normal 3HD ones are medium, but 4-6HD ones are large. Kinda surprising since humans are medium, and these aren't even dire wolves. Interestingly, dire wolves start at 7HD, kinda hinting that a 7HD wolf should become a dire wolf.Now I want a D&D variant where humans and demi-humans become bigger as they gain levels...
Post by: Egan_BW on December 14, 2015, 10:31:54 am
I always thought that was how Dark Souls worked.If it reached 37HD it would become gargantuan! Wolves do this too... Normal 3HD ones are medium, but 4-6HD ones are large. Kinda surprising since humans are medium, and these aren't even dire wolves. Interestingly, dire wolves start at 7HD, kinda hinting that a 7HD wolf should become a dire wolf.Now I want a D&D variant where humans and demi-humans become bigger as they gain levels...
Post by: scrdest on December 14, 2015, 01:10:54 pm
Post by: smjjames on December 14, 2015, 04:00:47 pm
Also ow, fourth wall. It's been a while since the comic has breached the fourth wall, heh.
Also, is the guy with the warhammer supposed to be a golem? Pretty sure golems can't be vampirized.
Edit: According to the OOTS forum, its something called a goliath.
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on December 14, 2015, 04:17:31 pm
Post by: Strife26 on December 14, 2015, 04:52:58 pm
Post by: Shadowlord on December 14, 2015, 05:18:01 pm
Post by: fillipk on December 14, 2015, 05:44:17 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on December 14, 2015, 05:51:07 pm
Yeah it was kinda meta, but that's part of OoTS's charm (particularly in moderation, and it's been a while).
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 14, 2015, 06:29:31 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on December 14, 2015, 06:32:19 pm
Post by: Shadowlord on December 14, 2015, 06:54:42 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on December 14, 2015, 06:58:35 pm
Post by: Strife26 on December 14, 2015, 07:09:45 pm
Post by: Helgoland on December 14, 2015, 07:52:33 pm
Heh, yeah, OoTS has one of the slowest update schedules I know.Try reading Dead Philosophers in Heaven, then. It updates about once a year, and even that only if you're lucky.
Post by: Strife26 on December 14, 2015, 08:10:04 pm
Post by: Culise on December 14, 2015, 10:58:01 pm
Post by: i2amroy on December 14, 2015, 11:01:25 pm
For me at least, it's made easier by also reading a couple other webcomics, including Schlock Mercenary, which has kept to a flawless daily release schedule since it started in 2000. (The others I read are Darths and Droids, and Doctor McNinja, both of which will probably be ending sometime soon-ish.)Only three? I currently have 44 different webcomics that are on my reading list, a few that update daily, 1 that updates daily minus weekends, several MWF updaters, a few TTh updaters, a few that updated 2-4 times a week on random days, a few that update once a week, a couple that update every couple of weeks and a couple that I just check in once every month or so to see if they've updated. :P It ensures that I always have at least 3-4 new comic pages to read every morning/evening before I go to bed. :)
Yeah, No Rest For the Wicked was one that used to be on my regular list until it died. After a year or so without any updates I tend to move comics off of my main list and onto a backup folder that I rarely break out to recheck if things have started up again.
Post by: TheBiggerFish on December 14, 2015, 11:02:12 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on December 14, 2015, 11:10:02 pm
I hope for more No Rest For The Wicked though. Gotta love the voice-acted version of the first few (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bGPGCnccb0)...
(Gotta love the Cage The Elephant song too, but not ontopic)
Post by: fillipk on December 18, 2015, 12:15:09 pm
Roy really should have known better
Post by: smjjames on December 18, 2015, 12:38:41 pm
New one up (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1016.html)
Roy really should have known better
That was pretty quick.
I hope everybody else heard what that vamped Creed of Stone headdwarf said. Also, the Odin priest just said that everybody with a formal role has to stay there. So, I'm hoping there's some sort of anti-teleport spell or something in place.
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on December 18, 2015, 03:03:08 pm
Post by: Akura on December 18, 2015, 05:32:00 pm
New one up (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1016.html)
Roy really should have known better
That was pretty quick.
I hope everybody else heard what that vamped Creed of Stone headdwarf said. Also, the Odin priest just said that everybody with a formal role has to stay there. So, I'm hoping there's some sort of anti-teleport spell or something in place.
She said "No attendee shall pass through this hall's arches (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ExactWords)".
Post by: smjjames on December 18, 2015, 05:37:32 pm
New one up (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1016.html)
Roy really should have known better
That was pretty quick.
I hope everybody else heard what that vamped Creed of Stone headdwarf said. Also, the Odin priest just said that everybody with a formal role has to stay there. So, I'm hoping there's some sort of anti-teleport spell or something in place.
She said "No attendee shall pass through this hall's arches (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ExactWords)".
That's physically, I was wondering if there was anything blocking magical means, ie. teleportation spell, dimension door, etc.
Post by: Shadowlord on December 18, 2015, 05:45:48 pm
Post by: Orange Wizard on December 18, 2015, 08:08:15 pm
Post by: Akura on December 18, 2015, 08:15:08 pm
Post by: scrdest on January 04, 2016, 01:56:39 pm
If Durkula leaves his vote will be invalidated, won't it?New one is up (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1017.html), and answers this very question.
Post by: Akura on January 04, 2016, 02:12:29 pm
Wouldn't a change of proxy also require a re-vote?
Post by: Zangi on January 04, 2016, 02:43:14 pm
As for the second, it would set a very poor future precedent if some outsider could just waltz in and assassinate any representative that they please...
Post by: i2amroy on January 04, 2016, 03:09:16 pm
Also the rules only mentioned the representative and their two bodyguards, not any other random cleric vampires that might be there. Seriously, you're attacking a room full of Clerics with a bunch of lower leveled vampires, none of which are under protection but 1, what do you expect to happen? Dust 'em all but whichever is in the front (since they just said it's a frontarchy) and they haven't declared anyone as an official bodyguard (heck, if they were quick they could even dust Durkula and Mr. Exarch if they acted fast enough to catch him off guard before he teleports, since once he renounced his position he also renounced any protection he might have under the rules). Ideally once they've dusted everyone but whoever is standing in the front the one in the front would have attacked someone by then which would let them dust it as well; if they haven't then it seems like the best idea would simply be to buff an unrelated bodyguard up to the point he was guaranteed to destroy the last vamp in one hit. It'd be a noble sacrifice, but there wouldn't be any problems with clerics buffing the vampire or similar since it would be dead at that point. :P
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 04, 2016, 03:12:51 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on January 04, 2016, 03:40:23 pm
Post by: Akura on January 04, 2016, 03:41:36 pm
a bunch of lower leveled vampires, none of which are under protection but 1
They are all Clerics of Hel(they're wearing Unholy Symbols), so they're all under protection from The Rules. If a Cleric from one religion attacked another, it'd start a holy war, something the Godsmoot is supposed to avoid. Roy attacking Durkulon doesn't count since he's not a Cleric, and was in service(though he didn't know it) of the High Priest of Hel.
I did notice that the two female vampires whose Unholy Symbols are visible are also reversed from the men's.
Those new vamp spawn are looking pretty hostile.
Not the one standing by the arch. She looks mildly interested in what's going on at best. :P
But seriously, how many charges did that staff even have? And it was already heavily used to begin with, given Malack and Tarquin's discussion here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0858.html) about the mummies taking a few charges each. So far as I can tell, a single charge is good for 3 spell levels.
By that logic, Create Undead(the mummies) is 2 charges - I saw seven mummies in that strip, so 14 charges. No idea on what spell would create full Vampires, probably Create Greater Undead(3 charges) or similar effect. I'm seeing ten in this strip, plus the use for Durkon and that Goliath that Belkar ran into. 36 + 14 means that the staff would have been completely charged the moment Malack started making mummies in order for to have managed it completely.
Post by: Orange Wizard on January 04, 2016, 06:36:46 pm
Post by: Zangi on January 04, 2016, 07:37:07 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on January 04, 2016, 07:42:39 pm
Post by: Bauglir on January 04, 2016, 09:02:47 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on January 04, 2016, 09:30:16 pm
Post by: Criptfeind on January 04, 2016, 09:52:04 pm
*Or just a obscure effect that's not related to create dead. Damn splatbooks, can never really quite tell.
Post by: Yoink on January 05, 2016, 02:03:44 am
Edit: Actually, I think I was a few comics past this, but oh well- could always use a bit of a refresher on what was going on.
Edit edit: Oh man, just read #1000 (for the first time). What a badass moment.
This comic manages to pull off "humorous" fairly consistently, but this is more like... "epic" or something along those lines. :D
Edit edit edit: Well dang, now I'm caught up and dying to know what happens next. >.>
Post by: Arcvasti on January 06, 2016, 12:26:10 am
Post by: RedWarrior0 on January 11, 2016, 02:26:13 pm
Post by: i2amroy on January 11, 2016, 02:55:14 pm
Post by: Sergius on January 11, 2016, 03:26:24 pm
Also why didn't anyone flamestrike Durkula's ass already? The field doesn't prevent that. Or arrows.
Post by: Akura on January 11, 2016, 03:32:31 pm
Better yet, instead of flamestrike on Durkula, why not cast a spell to block teleportation? Dimensional Lock ought to be within the means of any of those clerics. That'll keep him from Dominating any of the dwarf elders - nullifying Hel's plan.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on January 11, 2016, 03:34:47 pm
Post by: Orange Wizard on January 11, 2016, 08:05:38 pm
I assume that Roy wanted the clerics to go after Durkula in the first place, but they got a little overeager to smite some undead. Hence his surprise at the vampire he was fighting being flamestriked. Obviously he couldn't redirect their efforts before the battle spiraled all out of control.This is how I read it.
Post by: Shadowlord on January 11, 2016, 08:09:42 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on January 11, 2016, 09:12:24 pm
Could also be that he wanted them to fry the other vamp.
Post by: Rolan7 on January 12, 2016, 10:52:03 am
Post by: Shinziril on January 12, 2016, 12:13:29 pm
I assume that Roy wanted the clerics to go after Durkula in the first place, but they got a little overeager to smite some undead. Hence his surprise at the vampire he was fighting being flamestriked. Obviously he couldn't redirect their efforts before the battle spiraled all out of control.
Yeah, this definitely seems to be what happened.
Interestingly, Durkon is still hanging around to watch the fireworks, instead of teleporting off to get things done ASAP. More Evil Gloating? He certainly looks amused (and miss "I'm-so-thirsty" is hanging out in the background, having decided that not getting cut in half by Roy is the better part of valor, heh heh).
Post by: RedWarrior0 on January 18, 2016, 09:42:22 am
Post by: FallacyofUrist on January 18, 2016, 09:46:44 am
Post by: scrdest on January 18, 2016, 01:31:11 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 18, 2016, 01:42:24 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on January 18, 2016, 02:20:39 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 18, 2016, 03:27:17 pm
Post by: heydude6 on January 18, 2016, 03:29:22 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on January 18, 2016, 03:30:09 pm
Curse my lousy DEX, I knew I should have dropped INT instead...
Post by: Bauglir on January 18, 2016, 05:35:21 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on January 18, 2016, 05:44:51 pm
(Also technically it's the demigod making a decision, not the priest. So Elan casting charm on the priest or something wouldn't work.)
I have no idea how, but I think this must involve Durkon saving the day. Maybe through trickery, somehow.
Post by: Akura on January 18, 2016, 06:02:22 pm
I have no idea how, but I think this must involve Durkon saving the day. Maybe through trickery, somehow.I'd bet on this. He's already figured out how to deceive the vamp spirit because the vamp spirit cannot understand the meaning or connection of most of Durkon's memories.
As for the vote, the demigod - a former dwarf king that achieved semi-divinity - apparently polls the dwarf clan leaders to make that his vote. However, that demigod should damn well know that his race is doomed to Hel's domain if he votes yes, and the vote should still ultimately rest with him.
Post by: Rolan7 on January 18, 2016, 06:23:56 pm
... Of course, if he can be convinced that the council was manipulated, I think he'd be free to at least abstain. I don't know how to make a proper climax of that though.
Post by: Veylon on January 19, 2016, 02:25:08 am
He explicitly knows, but he considers himself bound to follow the will of the council. Lawful and stuff.The tiebreakers' tiebreakers' tiebreaker is a flipped coin. The gods leave it up to the gods to decide what happens.
... Of course, if he can be convinced that the council was manipulated, I think he'd be free to at least abstain. I don't know how to make a proper climax of that though.
Post by: Egan_BW on January 19, 2016, 02:27:53 am
And then the Snarl eats everything.
Post by: Arcvasti on January 19, 2016, 11:26:12 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on January 19, 2016, 11:26:58 pm
Post by: MaximumZero on January 19, 2016, 11:27:17 pm
Maybe Elan can petition the High Priest of Odin to let Banjo into the pantheon again and then vote against destroying the world.That would be the most amazing thing ever.
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on January 19, 2016, 11:28:39 pm
I don't think Banjo was allowed as an official god by any of the pantheons, or would that not matter?Maybe Elan can petition the High Priest of Odin to let Banjo into the pantheon again and then vote against destroying the world.That would be the most amazing thing ever.
Post by: Xantalos on January 19, 2016, 11:31:07 pm
IT HAS PRECEDENT
Post by: TheBiggerFish on January 19, 2016, 11:31:53 pm
Odin actually wanted Banjo in the pantheon.Exactly.
IT HAS PRECEDENT
Post by: Orange Wizard on January 21, 2016, 05:10:00 am
Post by: Rolan7 on January 21, 2016, 10:29:09 am
Post by: RedWarrior0 on January 22, 2016, 09:20:38 pm
New one is up. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1020.html)
No title update yet since I'm on mobile
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on January 22, 2016, 09:24:21 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on January 22, 2016, 09:27:23 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: heydude6 on January 22, 2016, 09:27:47 pm
My only criticism though is that miscasting a divination shouldn't create an explosion. It should create something equivalent to static, or revealing the wrong information.
NINJAED
Post by: Akura on January 22, 2016, 09:56:21 pm
Double-checking the SRD page for Use Magic Device, Blackwing could have simply intentionally flubbed a single UMD check, and the resulting outcome is again GM's choice.
Post by: TheBiggerFish on January 22, 2016, 10:00:33 pm
Creative use of failure modes.
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on January 22, 2016, 10:22:53 pm
How did Blackwing even cast the scroll in the first place? Several difficult Use Magic Device checks? I would say that it is possible to do that intentionally if Blackwing is capable of casting from a scroll, but lacks the caster level required to do it automatically, which in turn requires a caster level check(which is failed since Blackwing doesn't even have a caster level), followed by a Wisdom check to avoid a mishap. It looks like Blackwing intentionally failed the Wisdom check, resulting in a mishap. I don't know what the actual Rules are, but the SRD's list of mishaps are guidelines - and it's also GM's choice, not roll for outcome.It also explains why Blackwing says that the fact he doesn'tknow what he's doing is a good thing.
Double-checking the SRD page for Use Magic Device, Blackwing could have simply intentionally flubbed a single UMD check, and the resulting outcome is again GM's choice.
Post by: Rolan7 on January 22, 2016, 10:26:52 pm
But again, it flows really well and makes sense. The Giant tries to stick with the rules, but bends them a little for jokes all the time.
Post by: Shinziril on January 25, 2016, 12:05:53 am
Post by: Lord Shonus on January 25, 2016, 08:34:05 am
Post by: Shinziril on January 25, 2016, 04:24:29 pm
Some folks over at GiTP translated the scroll (it uses the same font as the other times magic runes have appeared on screen) as reading "strip #970 p5 establishes that magic items explode when activated improperly."
Welp. There it is.
Post by: TheBiggerFish on January 25, 2016, 04:25:01 pm
Post by: Akura on January 25, 2016, 05:34:01 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on February 01, 2016, 02:10:14 pm
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on February 01, 2016, 03:33:16 pm
"Hurrrrrr"
I kek'd
Post by: heydude6 on February 01, 2016, 03:45:05 pm
Post by: Orange Wizard on February 02, 2016, 08:01:16 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on February 08, 2016, 02:03:48 pm
Post by: fillipk on February 08, 2016, 02:10:38 pm
Post by: i2amroy on February 08, 2016, 02:14:09 pm
I lol'd at the end. Now how are they going to beat the vampires?Well doesn't their ship always arrive in the nick of time? They just have to fly to the dwarven homelands and they should get their with not another moment to spare! :P
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 08, 2016, 02:15:42 pm
Post by: Elephant Parade on February 08, 2016, 02:27:51 pm
... that staff doesn't belong to the Church of Hel at all. If anything, it belongs to the Church of Nergal... ???Well, it can belong to both, now! Assuming either church even wants it.
Post by: Bauglir on February 08, 2016, 03:11:25 pm
... that staff doesn't belong to the Church of Hel at all. If anything, it belongs to the Church of Nergal... ???it was rightfully plundered
Post by: Rolan7 on February 08, 2016, 03:21:18 pm
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 08, 2016, 03:25:35 pm
... that staff doesn't belong to the Church of Hel at all. If anything, it belongs to the Church of Nergal... ???Well, it can belong to both, now! Assuming either church even wants it.
LMAO
Post by: FallacyofUrist on February 08, 2016, 03:28:05 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on February 08, 2016, 04:00:28 pm
Rules Lawyers- the most incredible prestige class.(http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/8bittheater/images/0/0d/Red_Mage_Mime.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20091020173310)
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Metagamer_%283.5e_Class%29
Post by: RedWarrior0 on February 12, 2016, 02:13:13 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on February 12, 2016, 05:05:41 pm
Post by: Dorsidwarf on February 12, 2016, 05:06:56 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on February 12, 2016, 05:09:06 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on February 12, 2016, 05:20:40 pm
Post by: Orange Wizard on February 12, 2016, 06:55:57 pm
Post by: i2amroy on February 16, 2016, 01:14:19 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on February 16, 2016, 01:19:34 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on February 16, 2016, 01:20:33 pm
Ninjas gotta steal all the glory.
Post by: smjjames on February 16, 2016, 01:21:42 pm
Oh, and Durkon manipulating Durkula.
Yep with the current one. :)
Post by: Whisperling on February 16, 2016, 01:44:55 pm
Post by: Akura on February 16, 2016, 06:16:22 pm
Quote
"Also, if this ends OK for us, can we maybe talk about reforming all these archaic friggin' rules?"
"Hey! Don't pin this all on Frigg, everyone agreed to this!"
Had to throw that one in there, didn't ya? Funny as hell.
Post by: i2amroy on February 22, 2016, 06:04:43 pm
The speech is kinda saddening when you remember that Wrecan's character is a tribute to a real OotS fan who died. :(
That said the weapon of legacy thing is pretty cool.
Post by: Akura on February 22, 2016, 06:59:37 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on February 23, 2016, 09:42:51 am
New one is up: Mark of Distinction (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1025.html)
The speech is kinda saddening when you remember that Wrecan's character is a tribute to a real OotS fan who died. :(
One of the things Wrecan was notable for was starting the first "Number of Character appearances thread" on the GiTP forum, which is directly referenced in this strip (the entirety of panel 7).
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 23, 2016, 10:59:17 am
New one is up: Mark of Distinction (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1025.html)I thought it was already quite emotional enough without there 'never being enough time.'
The speech is kinda saddening when you remember that Wrecan's character is a tribute to a real OotS fan who died. :(
That said the weapon of legacy thing is pretty cool.
That is... Heavy.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on February 29, 2016, 09:34:15 am
Post by: Akura on February 29, 2016, 09:43:45 am
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on February 29, 2016, 10:45:39 am
Post by: Culise on February 29, 2016, 11:02:58 am
Do we know which side the devils that own a few minutes of V's time are on in this conflict?At the moment, all we know is that they're on their own side. They've been very clear about how their agenda is separate from both Xykon's (ultimate power) and Redcloak's (bargaining chip to ensure the Dark One a seat at the divine table), but I'm not sure how well it falls in with Hel's (commanding role in the new genesis). They wanted Girard's gate destroyed, but we don't know if that was because they want to weaken the seal on the Snarl (for whatever omnicidal reason), widen the breach between the two worlds (and possibly gain access to the souls on the other side), or if they wanted to push Hel's agenda by creating a clear crisis to trigger this Godsmoot (and gain a share of the souls so lost). My two cents are on the second, because most cultures don't have the particular Hel/Valhalla divide of the dwarves and thus wouldn't benefit the trio as much in terms of souls gained, and they seem to be too relentlessly pragmatic to be shooting for a generic "destroy the world" for the sake of destroying the world. If that's true, then they do not benefit from Hel's plan succeeding, because it will shore up the barrier dividing them from the other side. Of course, my track record for predictions is not all that wonderful, so take it with a grain of salt. :3
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on February 29, 2016, 11:31:59 am
Ultimately, I think they'll use their remaining time to create the greatest shifts towards an Evil world possible. We've already seen this with both V's actions during the splice (they clearly did not predict Familicide, but oh, the moral conundrum that introduces is delicious, call it a bonus) and the first reclamation, because destroying Girard's gate puts the whole world, gods included, on "desperate times desperate measures" watch.
I don't think they're interested in helping Hel, because she's very clearly the exact opposite of what they've got going on. She is using Evil purely for her own benefit to the exclusion of other Evil's benefits. Loki is hardly a moral paragon.
Post by: smjjames on February 29, 2016, 12:01:20 pm
Post by: Akura on February 29, 2016, 01:03:54 pm
Loki is hardly a moral paragon.
Unless The Giant has stated otherwise, I'd peg Loki as Chaotic Neutral(and have Fire and Trickery as domains), not Evil.
Post by: Lord Shonus on February 29, 2016, 01:14:34 pm
They've already stated their goals, and that's to create a better cooperation between the evil alignments as to be a more effective force in the world. I'm not sure they really have a stake in this. The gods have already stated an intention to recreate the world, outsiders obviously will not be affected, and in either the existing or recreated one the potential for a better organized Evil remains. I definitely don't think they have any independent desire to help the Snarl, which given what it is probably has an alignment of True Neutral.
The IFCC promised to kill 5 Good dragons for every Black dragon V killed with Familicide, and commented that it would be a trivial amount in terms of their goals. They have to be planning far more than just reorganizing evil.
Post by: Culise on February 29, 2016, 01:17:39 pm
Post by: smjjames on February 29, 2016, 01:20:36 pm
Indeed. Their "evil cooperation" feels more like a front to me; I believe that they're not just cooperating for the sake of cooperation, but to some end.
That's already been said in the comic. It seems like some kind of 'plans within plans within plans' kind of thing.
Post by: Shadowlord on February 29, 2016, 01:40:34 pm
Maybe V was taken out of play to ensure no interference when Durkula was created (and the gate destroyed), to ensure the order of the stick wouldn't stop Redcloak or Xykon, because they'd been led to the summit by Durkula.
Post by: Bauglir on February 29, 2016, 01:44:21 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on February 29, 2016, 02:05:21 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on March 07, 2016, 09:03:32 am
Post by: Skyrunner on March 07, 2016, 09:23:22 am
Post by: Shadowlord on March 07, 2016, 09:57:37 am
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on March 07, 2016, 12:13:34 pm
Post by: hops on March 11, 2016, 04:59:55 am
Post by: NRDL on March 11, 2016, 05:03:43 am
Post by: heydude6 on March 11, 2016, 07:05:40 am
Post by: Lord Shonus on March 11, 2016, 10:05:18 am
1. Explain to the people who were wondering (a lot of folks on the GiTP forums were expecting Banjo to play a role) why Banjo wasn't going to change the vote
2. Showcase how Roy's growing from the "Belkar was right and I was wrong" revelation. Instead of just blowing Elan off with the "He's a puppet" answer, he first provided multiple cogent reasons why it wouldn't work, showing that he is no longer going to dismiss a teammate out of hand.
Post by: smjjames on March 16, 2016, 10:11:27 am
Gotta pay those NPCs I suppose.
Post by: Skyrunner on March 16, 2016, 11:16:22 am
Post by: Sergius on March 16, 2016, 04:28:22 pm
Post by: Akura on March 16, 2016, 04:36:22 pm
200 gold is about 1/6th of the treasure a single level 4 encounter (or about one CR4 monster). I think? I believe each OotS member is level 12-ish or more.
Closer to level 18-ish. Roy is probably at the lowest due to death(if Durkon is ever revived, he'd be square with Roy), while Haley is probably at the highest level after her finishing off her rival. Vaarsuvius is level 16 minimum according to that that Power Word: Stun spell a while back. 200GP is a drop in the bucket.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on March 21, 2016, 02:57:04 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on March 21, 2016, 03:40:26 pm
Also this turn of events works for me, because my DND group didn't follow the wealth-by-level whatsoever. We got our loot in the form of quirky, semi-cursed magic artifacts. We were usually fairly starved for simple gold.
Post by: Akura on March 21, 2016, 08:11:38 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on March 21, 2016, 08:12:19 pm
I can't help but wonder, why would they need a potion of fire resistance in a shower?
They don't, which is the joke.
Post by: Sergius on March 21, 2016, 08:59:07 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on March 21, 2016, 09:06:58 pm
I think the joke is that the mold dropped random treasure because it was technically a monster.Yeah.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on March 25, 2016, 03:07:53 pm
I'm liking this update pace.
Post by: heydude6 on March 25, 2016, 03:27:57 pm
Post by: Remalle on March 27, 2016, 12:04:49 am
My favorite of the names is probably "Deep Fang Friar"I'm partial to "Greg" myself.
Post by: Rolan7 on March 27, 2016, 12:08:24 am
Post by: quinnr on March 27, 2016, 02:21:11 am
Post by: Emma on March 27, 2016, 04:37:53 am
Post by: RedWarrior0 on March 29, 2016, 10:03:10 am
Post by: Rolan7 on March 29, 2016, 10:30:42 am
Post by: RedWarrior0 on April 06, 2016, 12:16:45 pm
New one is up (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1032.html)
Post by: Greiger on April 06, 2016, 12:54:34 pm
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on April 06, 2016, 01:03:40 pm
Looks like there is much butt biting in her future.I believe the phrase the kids use is "Swiggity. Swooty. I am coming for that booty."
Post by: Orange Wizard on April 11, 2016, 09:48:43 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on April 14, 2016, 08:16:03 am
Post by: smjjames on April 14, 2016, 09:36:46 am
lol....
And OF COURSE the rider is masked.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on April 14, 2016, 09:48:08 am
Post by: scriver on April 14, 2016, 11:00:31 am
Also, remind me: Kragthor was the one who filled his gate protection dungeon with lots of great beasts, right?
Post by: Criptfeind on April 14, 2016, 11:17:15 am
Post by: Lord Shonus on April 14, 2016, 11:17:33 am
Post by: Rolan7 on April 14, 2016, 11:17:57 am
Post by: Lord Shonus on April 14, 2016, 11:22:07 am
Post by: Shadowlord on April 14, 2016, 02:53:47 pm
Current consensus over on GiTP is that it is some variant of yrthak (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/yrthak.htm)
"vulnerability to sonic"
Where's the Doctor when you need him?
Post by: Elephant Parade on April 14, 2016, 06:24:32 pm
What could Robotnik do? We need the Blue Blur himself!Current consensus over on GiTP is that it is some variant of yrthak (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/yrthak.htm)
"vulnerability to sonic"
Where's the Doctor when you need him?
Post by: ShadowHammer on April 14, 2016, 10:40:02 pm
What could Robotnik do? We need the Blue Blur himself!Current consensus over on GiTP is that it is some variant of yrthak (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/yrthak.htm)
"vulnerability to sonic"
Where's the Doctor when you need him?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: smjjames on April 22, 2016, 09:20:54 am
Post by: fillipk on April 22, 2016, 01:49:02 pm
Post by: i2amroy on April 22, 2016, 06:07:57 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on April 23, 2016, 08:55:24 am
Post by: hops on April 23, 2016, 07:33:55 pm
Post by: Strife26 on April 23, 2016, 07:41:33 pm
Ah the good old, "well I'll just shoot it with my crossbow, I guess" staple of every D&D group encounter.
The best cure for incoming fire is outgoing fire.
Post by: TheBiggerFish on April 23, 2016, 09:06:44 pm
The best cure for incoming fire is outgoing fire.Sig'd.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on May 03, 2016, 11:08:53 am
Post by: fillipk on May 03, 2016, 12:22:53 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on May 03, 2016, 12:29:16 pm
That the ring was her magic protection though, so she could be in trouble. I doubt it though, paladins are tough and stuff, and he'll stay conscious at least.
I wonder how long that jerk waited? Apparently long enough for the snow to stop, so at least several minutes. Maybe half an hour. What a jerk.
Post by: Criptfeind on May 03, 2016, 12:35:57 pm
Post by: Zangi on May 03, 2016, 01:28:35 pm
Possibly the paladins can swap the ring back and forth? In theory that'd work, if the oots universe is following frostburn at least, they'd both get hypothermia and take some damage, but depending on how you read it swapping protection might be enough to prevent further damage.This.
They've already shown the water paladin swapping the ring to the guy paladin. Ain't any reason it can't be swapped back and forth infinity. Plus, they probably have heal spells.
I wonder how long that jerk waited? Apparently long enough for the snow to stop, so at least several minutes. Maybe half an hour. What a jerk.Why is he a jerk for trying to do his job properly?
Post by: Rolan7 on May 03, 2016, 01:39:45 pm
Post by: Cyroth on May 03, 2016, 01:53:56 pm
I wonder how long that jerk waited? Apparently long enough for the snow to stop, so at least several minutes. Maybe half an hour. What a jerk.Why is he a jerk for trying to do his job properly?
The scales of his sonic reptilian unicorn aren't bright and shiny. Clearly thats a jerk-mount.
Post by: i2amroy on May 03, 2016, 04:20:57 pm
Possibly the paladins can swap the ring back and forth? In theory that'd work, if the oots universe is following frostburn at least, they'd both get hypothermia and take some damage, but depending on how you read it swapping protection might be enough to prevent further damage.His cloak also gives protection from cold, so if absolutely necessary they could swap back and forth the cloak and the ring ensuring that while one of them had the ring (and could thus breathe under the water) the other one had the cloak and thus was still protected from the cold.
Post by: Akura on May 03, 2016, 05:07:30 pm
It's a shame that rider didn't follow them into the water. Lien's celestial shark could probably use a snack.
Post by: i2amroy on May 03, 2016, 07:08:19 pm
the cloak has weather protectionAh fair point, missed that.
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 10, 2016, 01:24:43 am
Post by: Rolan7 on May 16, 2016, 10:28:52 am
I was wrong about him being a jerk
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Postedit: Oop, thanks Egan
Post by: Egan_BW on May 16, 2016, 10:48:17 am
Post by: Harry Baldman on May 16, 2016, 10:59:43 am
Post by: Akura on May 16, 2016, 11:55:16 am
Just this strip alone shows that this new guy, Oona is possibly the goblinoid equivalent of O-Chul.
Post by: smjjames on May 16, 2016, 12:07:55 pm
Post by: Culise on May 16, 2016, 01:09:00 pm
Post by: Arx on May 16, 2016, 01:22:03 pm
Post by: Culise on May 16, 2016, 01:30:49 pm
I think Redcloak himself brought that up. Said something about how it made him look pasty.Yeah. Part of me wondered at the time if the forum debates actually inspired that particular line. :P
Post by: hops on May 17, 2016, 03:33:55 am
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 17, 2016, 06:46:20 am
Post by: Shadowlord on May 17, 2016, 07:24:38 am
Post by: RedWarrior0 on May 20, 2016, 12:23:56 pm
Nod. Get treat.
Post by: Dorsidwarf on May 20, 2016, 04:08:53 pm
Post by: Strife26 on May 20, 2016, 04:34:14 pm
Not a terrible motto.
Edit:fixed because I'm not paying enough attention today.
Post by: Akura on May 20, 2016, 04:55:23 pm
"All deaths horrible. Also inevitable. Nod. Get treat."
Not a terrible motto.
Lemme fix that.
...It is surprisingly sensible.
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 20, 2016, 09:23:22 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on May 20, 2016, 09:33:11 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 21, 2016, 12:27:17 am
Post by: smjjames on May 22, 2016, 07:57:37 am
Ha, loved this comic strip the most of em all. It makes the hobgoblin's retroactive look of disappointment when he doesn't get to fish out the pallys even better
Aren't the hobgoblins the orange skinned guys though?
Also, that warg is pretty philosophical, heh.
Post by: Remalle on May 24, 2016, 03:22:12 pm
Post by: hops on May 25, 2016, 12:05:35 am
Also how come owlbears are related to birds, but bugbears aren't insectoid? :P
Post by: Orange Wizard on May 25, 2016, 12:47:18 am
Post by: Culise on May 25, 2016, 01:25:05 am
I need to stop confusing bugbears and owlbears.I know you're just being tongue-in-cheek, but it's because bugbears are much older than owlbears. The latter were made up for D&D, apparently based off a cheap Chinese toy (http://diterlizzi.com/home/owlbears-rust-monsters-and-bulettes-oh-my/). The former, due to Gygax's unabashed willingness to crib from every source he had a fondness for, date back to the mythology of the early British Isles and Germany, where the "bug" comes from a similar root word as bogill (Scottish goblin), bwg (Welsh goblin), bögge (German, likewise), or...well, actually, the English "bug" that today serves as a term for any creepy-crawly; one suspects that whomever applied it to various land-dwelling arthropods back in the 17th century was not particularly fond of the many-legged critters. A bugbear is sort of a specific bugaboo, I suppose. :P
Also how come owlbears are related to birds, but bugbears aren't insectoid? :P
Post by: Harry Baldman on May 25, 2016, 02:04:44 am
Post by: scrdest on May 25, 2016, 05:50:30 am
I need to stop confusing bugbears and owlbears.You and me both.
Post by: MrWiggles on May 30, 2016, 02:30:14 am
Post by: heydude6 on May 30, 2016, 06:34:13 am
Post by: RedWarrior0 on May 30, 2016, 07:55:28 pm
Post by: Shadowlord on May 30, 2016, 08:30:09 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on May 31, 2016, 09:33:34 am
Post by: Playergamer on May 31, 2016, 09:38:00 am
Magnificient.
Post by: Skyrunner on May 31, 2016, 11:20:49 am
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on May 31, 2016, 11:25:42 am
Post by: Arx on May 31, 2016, 11:40:29 am
I thought that the implication was that the demonroach was talking about the MitD.
Yep. You know, trying to work out what it is and all.
Post by: fillipk on May 31, 2016, 02:34:05 pm
I got the impression that was the hammer over the top of the head to let people know the the MitD is smart and all if they hadn't got it by that point.I thought that the implication was that the demonroach was talking about the MitD.
Yep. You know, trying to work out what it is and all.
Post by: Shadowlord on May 31, 2016, 02:54:46 pm
Post by: Akura on May 31, 2016, 05:20:45 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on May 31, 2016, 05:53:59 pm
It was a joke... a reference to the threads on the official forums where people try to collate all the things the MitD has ever done to try to figure out what it is.They're 300 posts into their ninth thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?488773-Summon-MitD-IX-Roll-on-Section-3a), with about 1500 posts being when they close a thread. So yeah, there's a little bit of discussion.
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 05, 2016, 02:19:57 pm
This Oona is quickly becoming one of my favorite characters.Nod
Post by: Sergarr on June 05, 2016, 04:30:25 pm
Get treatThis Oona is quickly becoming one of my favorite characters.Nod
Post by: Rolan7 on June 07, 2016, 09:59:38 am
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 07, 2016, 10:07:02 am
Post by: fillipk on June 07, 2016, 03:38:30 pm
Post by: Akura on June 07, 2016, 05:01:51 pm
I have to ask, why were the gods trying to unmake the world now and not right before they're done(which is what was previously believed)?
Post by: Dorsidwarf on June 08, 2016, 07:20:29 am
Okay, so they haven't been casting a weeks-long ritual to bring a god-destroying abomination into the multiverse.
I have to ask, why were the gods trying to unmake the world now and not right before they're done(which is what was previously believed)?
Because the unmaking isn't to stop the Bad Guys from winning (Obviously they REALLY DON'T WANT that, but not enough to destroy everything), it's because if the last Gate goes down, everything and everyone (probbably) is destroyed, divine or no.
Post by: andrea on June 08, 2016, 08:08:18 am
it should be noted that , while the gate being destroyed allows some time to act after the event, I am not really sure the ritual being completed has the same leniency. So, even in that case they might want to act well before the end of the ritual.
Post by: MrWiggles on June 09, 2016, 12:46:37 am
Does anyone else find Redcloak story arc the most interesting? Cause, The Giant, is sticking to a lot of fantasy tropes, and is a good writer, the protagonists there, are eventually going to win, and gain most of their goals. And if any of them are going to die, its probably going to be the Halfing as part of his full redemption arc. Though The Bard is a good candidate too.
But Redcloak being a support character to the overall bad guy, means that he narrativly has the most freedom in his story. The only thing for certain for his future, is his eventual betrayal of the lich, and the possible 'having to team up with the good guys'.
Post by: Shadowlord on June 09, 2016, 09:52:12 am
Does anyone else find Redcloak story arc the most interesting? Cause, The Giant, is sticking to a lot of fantasy tropes, and is a good writer, the protagonists there, are eventually going to win, and gain most of their goals. And if any of them are going to die, its probably going to be the Halfing as part of his full redemption arc. Though The Bard is a good candidate too.
Ah, but how do you know Redcloak isn't the real protagonist, eh?
Post by: RedWarrior0 on June 17, 2016, 10:46:07 am
Post by: Shadowlord on June 17, 2016, 01:15:01 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on June 17, 2016, 01:34:15 pm
Post by: Strife26 on June 17, 2016, 01:40:52 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 17, 2016, 07:39:23 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on June 17, 2016, 07:41:56 pm
An atypical reaction image... the best kind.
Post by: Sergius on June 17, 2016, 11:52:56 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/8P6qTSD.png)
I immediately thought about this song from some movie I saw recently:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1qZpoyYcgk
Post by: Strife26 on June 21, 2016, 02:54:06 pm
Post by: scrdest on June 21, 2016, 03:25:59 pm
Post by: fillipk on June 21, 2016, 03:30:32 pm
He closed the door in panel one, and so he forgot which door they just came out of, it seems. You'd think it could tell by the footsteps, but it is the MitD.yeah, plus this could mean that a lot of the doors with red x's haven't been explored
Post by: GiglameshDespair on June 21, 2016, 03:36:58 pm
I thought it was the monster was doing it deliberately.
Post by: Remalle on June 21, 2016, 03:59:55 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 21, 2016, 04:03:21 pm
Watch when shadow monster paints over all the doors, erasing all their progressHuh... Shadow Monster appears to have only painted over most of the doors - I'm guessing, to actually accelerate their progress? I can only assume he knows which door the gate is and is increasing their odds by ruling out most of the ones he knows it's not in, without being too suspicious
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 21, 2016, 04:14:28 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on June 21, 2016, 04:16:31 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on June 29, 2016, 11:32:02 am
Post by: crazyabe on June 29, 2016, 11:58:59 am
Post by: Dorsidwarf on June 29, 2016, 02:31:20 pm
Apparently whatever MITD is, he doesn't leave footprints. Or anyprints. And he's not floaty or ethereal because he stomped the ground so hard he caused an earthquake once.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on June 29, 2016, 02:50:07 pm
Post by: Zangi on June 29, 2016, 02:54:18 pm
Post by: Zanzetkuken The Great on June 29, 2016, 03:06:27 pm
Post by: Remalle on June 29, 2016, 03:27:40 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on June 29, 2016, 03:39:11 pm
Of course, everything about the Snarl is in question at this point. Even Roy acknowledges that.
Post by: Akura on June 29, 2016, 04:46:24 pm
Post by: Strife26 on June 29, 2016, 09:37:05 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 29, 2016, 09:42:37 pm
Though MitD's race being some kind of Snarlborn actually sounds decently plausible to me, it explains why he doesn't know what he is (drawn differently), why he remembers having a parent but no details, why Xykon is so dedicated to keeping him around as an Ace in the Hole, and maybe even why the darkness sticks to him (thinking of that one Yugoloth who's so ancient and hideous reality itself puts a veil over her, killing anyone who passes the perception test to see past it and the wisdom test to not shut your brain off when you see past it).
Post by: Lord Shonus on June 29, 2016, 09:45:39 pm
Doesn't look like it (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html), though I wouldn't be surprised if Serini did pull something like that (fill the defenses with giant monsters in Kraagor's name, but have the gate somewhere completely different because rogue).
That theory has been debated at great length, and the general conclusion is that it is extremely unlikely. From a meta point of view, the Giant has already done the bluff thing in two different ways (the three fake Xykons at the battle of Azure City and the multi-bluff at Girard's Gate) and is probably not going to keep dipping from the same well because that would be too dull. From the in-universe perspective, putting this many resources into a fake defense means you're leaving the gate almost entirely unprotected, which would be incredibly stupid.
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 30, 2016, 01:41:56 am
panel 8 explains the monster doors
Post by: hops on June 30, 2016, 03:02:26 am
Post by: Akura on June 30, 2016, 04:42:06 am
Post by: hops on June 30, 2016, 04:53:34 am
Post by: MrWiggles on June 30, 2016, 06:31:27 am
Post by: heydude6 on June 30, 2016, 07:06:52 am
Post by: MrWiggles on July 01, 2016, 05:35:16 am
Post by: heydude6 on July 01, 2016, 10:16:09 am
Post by: RedWarrior0 on July 06, 2016, 09:19:42 am
Post by: Dorsidwarf on July 06, 2016, 09:45:00 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 06, 2016, 10:43:39 am
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 06, 2016, 11:46:29 am
Post by: Egan_BW on July 06, 2016, 02:34:35 pm
Post by: crazyabe on July 06, 2016, 02:43:16 pm
He could just be that evil.No, He's Most likely Worse.
Post by: andrea on July 06, 2016, 03:02:19 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on July 14, 2016, 10:19:07 am
Post by: MrWiggles on July 16, 2016, 08:37:16 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on July 19, 2016, 01:43:50 pm
Post by: hops on July 20, 2016, 10:03:45 pm
Post by: Sergius on July 21, 2016, 08:21:58 am
Post by: Criptfeind on July 21, 2016, 08:26:02 am
Post by: LoSboccacc on July 21, 2016, 08:48:05 am
Post by: heydude6 on July 21, 2016, 10:46:26 am
Post by: Akura on July 21, 2016, 08:21:41 pm
Took me long enough to realise what his father said is probably an innuendo.Just imagine Roy saying "Ranged attack!" as he did it.
Post by: Sergius on July 21, 2016, 10:17:20 pm
So in other words, we don't know how good or bad Roy actually is with a bow. We only know that he can at least hit the broad side of a barn with one.
At the very least he can hit at Fighter BAB, which is pretty good, plus whatever enchantment bonuses of the bow and the arrows, unless he has really bad dexterity giving him lots of penalties.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on August 01, 2016, 10:31:48 am
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 01, 2016, 06:13:13 pm
Post by: NRDL on August 01, 2016, 11:55:11 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 02, 2016, 12:00:23 am
Post by: heydude6 on August 02, 2016, 12:01:55 am
Seriously, that's a pretty fucked punchline.To be fair, I'm pretty sure most of us forgot about what happened to V's relationship.
Post by: birdy51 on August 02, 2016, 12:53:09 am
Seriously, that's a pretty fucked punchline.To be fair, I'm pretty sure most of us forgot about what happened to V's relationship.
That is a fair point, but it's still pretty damn sad to think about. :(
Post by: Rolan7 on August 02, 2016, 06:19:48 am
Alright, I'm calling it. Eugene is going to be the anti-Tarquin. Where Tarquin is the ultimate in compelling villainy, Eugene is going to be an exercise on being the most repulsive and inhumane person who is still Lawful Good.Some people would say that was Miko, but I never thought she was that bad. Just foolish at times.
Post by: NRDL on August 02, 2016, 06:23:08 am
Alright, I'm calling it. Eugene is going to be the anti-Tarquin. Where Tarquin is the ultimate in compelling villainy, Eugene is going to be an exercise on being the most repulsive and inhumane person who is still Lawful Good.Some people would say that was Miko, but I never thought she was that bad. Just foolish at times.
"At times" being the entirety of her character arc.
I'd like to see a spin-off comic about her adventures in the afterlife and her struggle to understand just how badly she fucked up as a paladin and a human being. Defeat enough extra-planar threats, go through enough personal redemption to be able to earn a reunion with her lawful good horse.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on August 08, 2016, 05:27:08 pm
Post by: NRDL on August 08, 2016, 05:33:31 pm
Post by: Skyrunner on August 12, 2016, 09:34:51 am
Post by: RedWarrior0 on August 18, 2016, 01:24:04 pm
Post by: Akura on August 18, 2016, 06:58:28 pm
They're in Dwarven Lands, so that's expected I suppose.
Post by: Felissan on August 20, 2016, 03:07:03 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on August 30, 2016, 08:34:16 am
Post by: hops on August 30, 2016, 10:21:19 am
Post by: Skyrunner on August 30, 2016, 11:04:02 am
Post by: Arcvasti on August 30, 2016, 11:10:43 am
The question is: Random Encounter, or plot-relevant?
I seem to remember the god of the frost giants voting for the destruction of the world, so I'm guessing the latter.
Post by: LoSboccacc on August 30, 2016, 11:42:49 am
The question is: Random Encounter, or plot-relevant?
better be relevant, this thing has been padded quite a lot already
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 30, 2016, 12:58:28 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on September 07, 2016, 04:19:46 pm
Post by: Akura on September 07, 2016, 04:24:01 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on September 07, 2016, 05:20:30 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on September 08, 2016, 04:02:13 pm
Magic is very nice, indeed (:Not to families though.
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on September 08, 2016, 11:47:07 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on September 15, 2016, 08:12:19 am
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on September 15, 2016, 09:46:22 am
Post by: TheBiggerFish on September 15, 2016, 09:48:01 am
What's a windowfolk?Good question?
Post by: Reelya on September 15, 2016, 10:26:54 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on September 15, 2016, 10:31:26 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That's a rather flat punchline, but one that should have been clear.
Post by: Arx on September 15, 2016, 10:41:38 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That's a rather flat punchline, but one that should have been clear.
Not sure if I should be playing two rimshots or saying I thought it was pretty funny and obvious.
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on September 15, 2016, 10:45:46 am
Post by: Culise on September 15, 2016, 11:45:06 am
Yeah, my joke was kinda see-through, wasn't it?It's not bad to explain it in the name of transparency, though. Even if it is a bit of a pane.
Post by: Helgoland on September 15, 2016, 06:39:12 pm
Post by: Reelya on September 15, 2016, 07:07:29 pm
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on September 15, 2016, 11:44:37 pm
Post by: Sergius on September 16, 2016, 12:44:25 am
Post by: Rolan7 on September 21, 2016, 10:10:57 am
Gonna be honest, I don't remember why that's happening. Presumably something from Gnometown.
Post by: Werdna on September 21, 2016, 10:19:26 am
Update (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1053.html)
Gonna be honest, I don't remember why that's happening. Presumably something from Gnometown.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1015.html
Correct. Durkon kept making him jump ship, so he bought a Ring of Feather Fall in Gnometown.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 21, 2016, 04:27:04 pm
Post by: Akura on September 21, 2016, 05:18:03 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on October 03, 2016, 08:06:20 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on October 03, 2016, 09:29:22 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on October 03, 2016, 10:32:33 pm
Post by: Dozebôm Lolumzalìs on October 04, 2016, 09:37:15 am
Belkar has come a long way.
Of course he has. He just fell from a ship, remember?
Post by: Zangi on October 04, 2016, 09:47:40 am
Post by: RedWarrior0 on October 14, 2016, 03:02:05 pm
Post by: hops on October 15, 2016, 11:32:55 am
Post by: Akura on October 15, 2016, 04:23:12 pm
Okay but how long before that mechanic girl starscreams Bandana?
1d3 strips.
Post by: Dorsidwarf on October 15, 2016, 08:07:28 pm
Post by: Xantalos on October 15, 2016, 08:19:43 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on October 15, 2016, 08:20:50 pm
Where'd Julio go anyway? I think he headed off to avoid seeing Elan again and dying dramatically since older mentor figure and all, but I can't remember where he went.
Vacationing on the Upper Planes, I think.
Post by: Dorsidwarf on October 15, 2016, 08:57:09 pm
Where'd Julio go anyway? I think he headed off to avoid seeing Elan again and dying dramatically since older mentor figure and all, but I can't remember where he went.
on a meta-level reason, he left because he's strong enough to be a serious threat and ongoing thorn in the side to Tarquin, who is at least as high a level as the OOtS, and would be a major player vs durkula/xykon, which his status as a second-bit/side character wouldn't let him be.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on October 24, 2016, 10:20:12 am
Post by: Egan_BW on October 24, 2016, 11:46:55 am
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 24, 2016, 03:14:28 pm
V: The pit of Tartarus, I presume. More to the point is how it got here.
v you smarmy shit lol
Post by: RedWarrior0 on October 31, 2016, 09:04:56 am
Post by: smjjames on October 31, 2016, 09:06:59 am
Post by: Skyrunner on November 01, 2016, 03:38:57 am
Post by: NRDL on November 01, 2016, 03:50:10 am
Post by: Darkmere on November 01, 2016, 04:39:35 am
Honestly, with a limited amount of strips left before the end, I'm really worried about any pitfalls and detours that will just waste time.
Where are you getting this from, if I may ask?
At the speed this comic updates, we've still got 3 years left at least.
Post by: Felissan on November 01, 2016, 05:18:45 am
Post by: Reelya on November 01, 2016, 05:39:02 am
Post by: Rolan7 on November 01, 2016, 09:11:31 am
Post by: scriver on November 01, 2016, 10:42:16 am
Post by: Rolan7 on November 01, 2016, 11:14:18 am
Post by: Akura on November 01, 2016, 04:48:40 pm
Post by: NRDL on November 02, 2016, 12:04:41 am
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 07, 2016, 09:59:14 am
Post by: Dorsidwarf on November 07, 2016, 07:07:05 pm
New one is up (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1058.html)
I love how the giant cleric is just left sorta blinking confusedky rather than actual surprise (note the eyes)
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 15, 2016, 04:12:49 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on November 15, 2016, 04:14:38 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 15, 2016, 04:15:18 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on November 15, 2016, 05:43:17 pm
Post by: TD1 on November 15, 2016, 05:52:55 pm
....
It was this or a standard "PTW".
Post by: Rolan7 on November 15, 2016, 06:36:46 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on December 05, 2016, 04:37:38 pm
New one is up (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/ootslatest.html)Now featuring a direct link that will always redirect to the most recent comic!
Post by: Akura on December 05, 2016, 04:42:16 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on December 05, 2016, 04:46:49 pm
Ooh that's a neat trick, but actually it defeats the purpose I think: When going back through this thread, it'd be nice to follow a link directly to the potato (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1060.html) being discussed. Hence why I was so frustrated trying to permalink Goblins, despite the comic being on the index page.New one is up (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/ootslatest.html)Now featuring a direct link that will always redirect to the most recent comic!
@Potato
heehee, travel-sized corpses-
Oh. That's not good. Yeah mutiny upcoming, I'm still betting on Scoundrel coming back though.
Post by: Greiger on December 05, 2016, 04:48:21 pm
Going to reinstate my prediction of mutiny within 1d3 strips. The Mechane crew did not like seeing three of their guys get instagibbed by a single Cleave.Now now the giant killed more than 2 with that swing. Clearly that was more than a simple cleave. It was a great cleave..... if you will.....
Post by: Rolan7 on December 05, 2016, 04:50:04 pm
Now now the giant killed more than 2 with that swing. Clearly that was more than a simple cleave. It was a great cleave..... if you will.....Yeah, missed opportunity on it being the male giant instead of the female. That'd set up a hell of a callback.
Post by: Akura on December 05, 2016, 04:55:42 pm
Post by: smjjames on December 05, 2016, 05:14:48 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 05, 2016, 07:01:41 pm
I'm unused to this
Post by: TD1 on December 05, 2016, 07:02:38 pm
Post by: Remalle on December 08, 2016, 03:57:37 pm
It was the male giant, though? Unless I'm misunderstanding your intentionNow now the giant killed more than 2 with that swing. Clearly that was more than a simple cleave. It was a great cleave..... if you will.....Yeah, missed opportunity on it being the male giant instead of the female. That'd set up a hell of a callback.
Post by: Shadowlord on December 08, 2016, 04:01:36 pm
It was the male giant, though? Unless I'm misunderstanding your intentionNow now the giant killed more than 2 with that swing. Clearly that was more than a simple cleave. It was a great cleave..... if you will.....Yeah, missed opportunity on it being the male giant instead of the female. That'd set up a hell of a callback.
"Great cleavage!" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0102.html)
Post by: Rolan7 on December 08, 2016, 04:03:36 pm
The male giant having "huge cleavage" would just be repetition of that earlier joke. Callbacks are certainly fun, but they're a *lot* better with a twist.
Post by: Shadowlord on December 08, 2016, 04:27:55 pm
Post by: smjjames on December 19, 2016, 10:41:20 am
Post by: Rolan7 on December 19, 2016, 10:49:37 am
Post by: smjjames on December 19, 2016, 11:08:41 am
I think he just means it as a silly word for "small", like a travel-sized toothbrush. Though our party often did stick small creatures (even PCs) into bags of holding for particularly dangerous hijinks. Like when we orbital-dropped into a teleport-warded area, heheh.
Sounds fun, lol. The orbital dropping into a teleport warded area, not so much the sticking small creatures into a bag of holding, which is effectively a pocket universe, and may or may not involve in the objects being in stasis.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on December 20, 2016, 08:12:11 pm
New one is up (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1061.html)
Post by: Rolan7 on December 20, 2016, 08:19:24 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on January 09, 2017, 11:21:01 am
And in a completely surprising twist of fate...
Post by: Dozebôm Lolumzalìs on January 09, 2017, 12:40:18 pm
Post by: TD1 on January 09, 2017, 12:42:37 pm
Post by: Dozebôm Lolumzalìs on January 09, 2017, 12:44:05 pm
No, they'd still have more giants on the path. If they're on the path you know where they'll be; otherwise they have many paths. If they have even the slightest chance of staying on the path, it would be optimal to place more giants there than usual.
Although who even knows, they're giants, they might not be that smart.
Post by: Akura on January 09, 2017, 01:20:26 pm
Um. I hope she's not dead/severely injured.
Is it a stretch to assume that Andi has Rogue levels, and/or the wrench counts as an improvised sap?
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 09, 2017, 01:44:08 pm
Post by: TD1 on January 09, 2017, 04:12:44 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on January 09, 2017, 04:24:14 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on January 09, 2017, 05:10:52 pm
I'm more surprised that the others went with it so... calmly. Temporary, I'm sure.
Post by: scriver on January 09, 2017, 05:13:04 pm
I mean, that is her job.
Post by: Egan_BW on January 09, 2017, 09:11:49 pm
...
Admittedly, this means that there's now an opening for the role of Head Engineer. Maybe that unconscious person could do it when she wakes up...
Post by: Shinziril on January 10, 2017, 04:51:01 pm
Indeed. Specifically, I wasn't expecting her to look conflicted or even surprised afterward. But I suppose it wouldn't be chaotic to *premeditate* a coup :P
I'm more surprised that the others went with it so... calmly. Temporary, I'm sure.
I think the general idea here is that arguing about the mutiny can wait until after they're no longer under attack by a ridiculous number of Frost Giants.
Post by: Dorsidwarf on January 10, 2017, 08:01:22 pm
Indeed. Specifically, I wasn't expecting her to look conflicted or even surprised afterward. But I suppose it wouldn't be chaotic to *premeditate* a coup :P
I'm more surprised that the others went with it so... calmly. Temporary, I'm sure.
I think the general idea here is that arguing about the mutiny can wait until after they're no longer under attack by a ridiculous number of Frost Giants.
yeah - whether they agree with the mutiny or not, if a fight breaks out between the crew of an airship while its under attack they're all dead. Solve the current crisis before working it out.
Post by: Rolan7 on January 10, 2017, 08:05:30 pm
Afterwards, though...
Post by: RedWarrior0 on January 17, 2017, 04:39:17 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on January 17, 2017, 04:44:44 pm
Really though, nice use of Roy's holistic skillset.
Not even sure whether he's being honest. I think he probably did realize the airship changed course, and he's bluffing.
Actually that'd be a great comic about DND mechanics. If halfway through that diplomacy, he realized the ship was changing course, and had to make a shitty bluff check.
Edit: And the 3rd to last panel is beautifully ridiculous, IE DND
Post by: RedWarrior0 on February 01, 2017, 12:58:28 pm
Post by: Darkmere on February 01, 2017, 02:06:03 pm
Post by: Reelya on February 01, 2017, 11:36:09 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on February 08, 2017, 02:36:10 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on February 08, 2017, 02:46:08 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 09, 2017, 09:24:04 am
Post by: RedWarrior0 on February 21, 2017, 10:36:25 am
Post by: Akura on February 21, 2017, 06:15:31 pm
But then again D&D economy has never made sense, ever.
Also it seems that Roy does not notice the mutiny, despite standing 20-25ft away. I assume being in combat adds a penalty to Spot/Listen checks, and those are cross-class skills for a Fighter.
Post by: Rolan7 on February 21, 2017, 06:22:33 pm
And this trivial bit of backstory was pretty neat, heh.
Post by: Felissan on February 22, 2017, 04:59:25 am
Post by: Reelya on February 22, 2017, 08:17:31 am
3SP for a babysitter? Bear in mind that a (presumably live) chicken costs 2CP...
But then again D&D economy has never made sense, ever.
Also it seems that Roy does not notice the mutiny, despite standing 20-25ft away. I assume being in combat adds a penalty to Spot/Listen checks, and those are cross-class skills for a Fighter.
Roy's too busy to take any note of any infighting.
And some of that silver might have been bonus money to make up for the child's behavior. Although, say you're babysitting and it's $10 an hour, a chicken costs $5, so if you babysat for 7.5 hours you'd earn enough for 15 chickens. it's not that far off. Then again that might be a bit much considering medieval subsistence levels, but this is a pirate ship however so they might be flush with cash. Loot from fighting does add up.
Post by: Rolan7 on February 24, 2017, 05:14:08 pm
Spoiler: image (click to show/hide)
Edit:Also, apparently Jack Vance died in 2013 ):
Learned from a Fallen London remembrance.
Post by: Neonivek on February 24, 2017, 09:37:43 pm
And the enemies who are weak to it are fairly rare (more so then enemies resistant or immune to sonic)
Post by: RedWarrior0 on March 09, 2017, 04:25:05 pm
B12 was 504ing me when it actually came out and I didn't get around to linking until just now.
Post by: TheBiggerFish on March 09, 2017, 04:28:55 pm
Post by: Felissan on March 09, 2017, 04:33:51 pm
Post by: Akura on March 09, 2017, 06:00:24 pm
Hopefully Belkar doesn't get karma-stabbed by the falling Greenhilt.
I'll admit, that'd be actually pretty funny.
Post by: Arcvasti on March 09, 2017, 08:33:39 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on March 09, 2017, 08:41:30 pm
Post by: Strife26 on March 09, 2017, 09:13:47 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on March 09, 2017, 09:26:43 pm
Unless you count the time he died. Or the sunder, which is a totally different roll!
And if you knew that and were implying a locked gauntlet would be a poor investment, well, mundane stuff tends to be ridiculously cheap... In this case, 8gp. Though it does become a full-round action to remove the weapon, which hinders tactical weapon-switching.
...Jeez, I wonder if he's going to jump after it. I don't know how high up they are- they were briefly literally at ground level.
Post by: smjjames on March 12, 2017, 01:54:52 pm
Hopefully Belkar doesn't get karma-stabbed by the falling Greenhilt.
Aren't they way ahead of where Belkar, Starshine, and Vaarsuvius are?
Too bad he can't use something like 'recall weapon' (if that is even a DnD thing) and grab it back to him like Luke used the Force on his lightsabre.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on March 12, 2017, 01:57:37 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on March 15, 2017, 12:11:18 pm
Fresh impending drama! Hot off the presses!
Post by: RedWarrior0 on March 30, 2017, 03:17:05 pm
Post by: Greiger on March 30, 2017, 03:24:23 pm
Post by: Akura on March 30, 2017, 05:34:54 pm
As a single class fighter I imagine he'd still be better at handling the giant than Elan though.
Depends. A bard might have more tricks up his sleeve than a fighter. There's also a whole arsenal of giantess-based puns he could use. He might even be able to seduce the giantess.
Post by: TD1 on March 30, 2017, 05:40:33 pm
"I'd say you didn't exist, so I can't believe my ice!"
Post by: Egan_BW on March 30, 2017, 06:36:20 pm
Which is why we carry backup weapons, people!
Post by: Akura on March 30, 2017, 06:54:40 pm
and is not all that great with a scimitar.By the way that's a cutlass, not a scimitar. Pirates, you know?
Post by: Imic on March 31, 2017, 12:27:32 am
Post by: RedWarrior0 on April 10, 2017, 02:39:41 pm
Post by: Felissan on April 10, 2017, 03:14:12 pm
Post by: NRDL on April 10, 2017, 05:27:35 pm
Post by: smjjames on April 10, 2017, 05:42:06 pm
Also, 'knew which rope was safe to cut'... well, there's a potential chekovs gun if I've ever seen one.
Post by: Harry Baldman on April 10, 2017, 05:49:31 pm
Roy apparently has some stats in unarmed, I don't think we've ever really seen him use the unarmed skill.
You don't need Improved Unarmed Strike to do this, but it sure helps!
Post by: smjjames on April 10, 2017, 05:57:36 pm
Roy apparently has some stats in unarmed, I don't think we've ever really seen him use the unarmed skill.
You don't need Improved Unarmed Strike to do this, but it sure helps!
He hasn't done unarmed very much in the comic though, just an observation.
Post by: Rolan7 on April 10, 2017, 07:51:25 pm
Post by: Heron TSG on April 17, 2017, 02:35:02 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on May 15, 2017, 08:39:06 pm
Post by: Felissan on May 18, 2017, 12:13:43 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on May 18, 2017, 12:16:29 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on May 24, 2017, 09:39:40 pm
Post by: scriver on May 25, 2017, 04:13:36 am
Post by: inteuniso on May 25, 2017, 09:44:42 am
Post by: smjjames on May 25, 2017, 09:51:03 am
He's got a good point. Not often in history is there an obstinance/unpreparedness rewarded, and punishments are usually meted out freely. There's no reason for a happy ending other than the author pulling some magical crane out of their nipple; there are almost always reasons for bad endings.
Or some sort of Deus ex Machina even, though the ship itself kind of has a bit of plot based deus ex machina embedded into it. Still time for Andi to realize it was a dumb decision (nobody else actually seems to have sided with her and are just cooperating because of the current situation) and make amends.
Post by: Lord Shonus on May 25, 2017, 12:54:47 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on May 25, 2017, 01:00:02 pm
Post by: TD1 on May 25, 2017, 03:07:08 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on May 26, 2017, 09:36:06 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 26, 2017, 09:51:01 am
Good to see Andi's going back to doing her actual job. I doubt that she's going to actually admit out loud she was wrong, but it looks like she's realized on some level that she's not really cut out for giving orders.
I think they can just untie Bandana while she's busy on the mechanics and she just won't notice or care.
Post by: smjjames on May 26, 2017, 10:37:07 am
New one is up, and aptly named (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1073.html)
He's certainly on a roll after a bit of a hiatus.
The last two rows seem really random though, random rock on the deck that nobody apparently noticed before, and 'catching boulders' seems like a random thing.
Post by: Felissan on May 26, 2017, 11:20:54 am
Post by: birdy51 on May 26, 2017, 11:25:12 am
I'm more amuses that the loss of a stable captain is once more leading to chaos.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on May 26, 2017, 12:12:01 pm
The rock Roy threw at the giant was most likely a remnant of the original bombardment by the giants. As for why they can catch boulders (or other heavy items probably), I assume that's a D&D thing. I dunno, I've never played it.Yeah. Giants in 3.5 have racial abilities to do with chucking and catching boulders.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: scriver on May 26, 2017, 01:38:36 pm
(If the projectile provides a magical bonus on attack rolls, the DC increases by that amount.)
Catapult Stone +2?
Post by: GiglameshDespair on May 26, 2017, 02:29:52 pm
What can I say?(If the projectile provides a magical bonus on attack rolls, the DC increases by that amount.)
Catapult Stone +2?
Someone somewhere saw a boulder and decided what it needed was magic.
Post by: Felissan on May 26, 2017, 02:34:24 pm
Alternatively, Thor had some fun around these parts with a toy slingshot.What can I say?(If the projectile provides a magical bonus on attack rolls, the DC increases by that amount.)
Catapult Stone +2?
Someone somewhere saw a boulder and decided what it needed was magic.
Post by: Greiger on May 26, 2017, 03:15:46 pm
Funnily enough I recall hearing some old dnd story where a magically inclined kingdom went to war with another kingdom where the geology created some kind of dampener to active magicusing.(If the projectile provides a magical bonus on attack rolls, the DC increases by that amount.)
Catapult Stone +2?
They fixed that problem by magically enchanting seige engines and their ammo at home and bringing those on their warships. A ballista that shoots meteor swarm spells sounds like something out of modern military hardware.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on May 29, 2017, 01:24:17 pm
Post by: TD1 on May 29, 2017, 01:28:43 pm
Post by: scriver on May 29, 2017, 06:37:00 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on May 29, 2017, 06:59:18 pm
I particularly like that, when faced with an engineering problem, she dropped everything to fix it. I respect that a lot. She probably actually just saved the ship (from the situation resulting from her mistake).
Post by: RedWarrior0 on May 31, 2017, 02:06:16 pm
That was an annoying example of a bad link, because I assumed a new one was not out, hehe.Ah sorry, if I do another update that doesn't make it obvious I'll note it in the post.
Post by: TD1 on May 31, 2017, 02:22:29 pm
Post by: Madman198237 on June 02, 2017, 08:49:11 pm
There are two ways to sum this comic up:
Awesome!
And:
What fourth wall?
Post by: TD1 on June 03, 2017, 12:29:18 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on June 05, 2017, 06:59:57 pm
Post by: Akura on June 05, 2017, 07:05:39 pm
RIP :'(.
Post by: Egan_BW on June 05, 2017, 07:28:31 pm
At least I think that's the moral.
Post by: Madman198237 on June 05, 2017, 07:40:13 pm
Post by: hops on June 06, 2017, 12:51:42 am
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 17, 2017, 06:19:43 pm
Post by: NRDL on June 17, 2017, 06:22:38 pm
Love how Roy's like "Okay, some sort of b-plot must have been resolved, let's KEEP it resolved."
Post by: Egan_BW on June 17, 2017, 07:20:04 pm
Post by: scriver on June 18, 2017, 07:37:43 am
Post by: TD1 on June 18, 2017, 08:36:27 am
Post by: Felissan on June 18, 2017, 08:38:39 am
Post by: Helgoland on June 18, 2017, 12:29:35 pm
That earned a chuckle.Can confirm.
Post by: Rolan7 on June 18, 2017, 01:10:14 pm
Alternatively one could view it as: Belkar now has additional ballistas.And he can dual-wield...
Post by: RedWarrior0 on June 24, 2017, 09:32:39 am
Post by: Strife26 on June 24, 2017, 09:38:02 am
Post by: Arx on June 24, 2017, 09:42:28 am
Post by: Akura on June 24, 2017, 04:24:33 pm
Post by: Criptfeind on June 24, 2017, 04:33:09 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on June 24, 2017, 04:38:38 pm
Quote
Use the master’s base attack bonus, as calculated from all his classes.Oh wow, I'm not sure whether we used that. My character, a druid, had an animal companion which basically just maximized AC and never dealt damage. (but we also had a wizard who would use that rule)
I called her Duskwing. RIP
Duskwing did survive the campaign, at least, after I retired my character. Druids OP pls retire
Post by: My Name is Immaterial on June 24, 2017, 04:40:23 pm
So, what's the AC on the skin of a potato, that the attack of a raven familiar* could fail to pierce? Assuming we don't count him rolling a natural 1.@ the abbreviation: It could have happened a while before, when they were lower level, and thus had a lower BAB.
The rules for inanimate objects' AC are: 10 + size modifier + Dexterity modifier. Quoting the SRD:
Quote
An inanimate object has not only a Dexterity of 0 (–5 penalty to AC), but also an additional –2 penalty to its AC.Let's say a potato's a Diminutive object, so +4 to AC, giving it an AC of 7.
V would have to be pretty low level for a raven to not be able to hit the skin of a potato, but that's kind of irrelevant: a raven can't even do any damage, since it rolls a 1d2-5 for damage.
Post by: Criptfeind on June 24, 2017, 04:44:44 pm
but that's kind of irrelevant: a raven can't even do any damage, since it rolls a 1d2-5 for damage.Damage rolls that result in lower then 1 still do one damage though (that's where the house cat vs commoner meme comes from after all). So technically it can still do damage. Just a very minute amount of it.
Post by: Lord Shonus on June 24, 2017, 05:45:56 pm
Quote
Whenever damage reduction completely negates the damage from an attack, it also negates most special effects that accompany the attack, such as injury type poison, a monk’s stunning, and injury type disease. Damage reduction does not negate touch attacks, energy damage dealt along with an attack, or energy drains. Nor does it affect poisons or diseases delivered by inhalation, ingestion, or contact.
Attacks that deal no damage because of the target’s damage reduction do not disrupt spells.
Quote
Hardness
Each object has hardness—a number that represents how well it resists damage. Whenever an object takes damage, subtract its hardness from the damage. Only damage in excess of its hardness is deducted from the object’s hit points (see Table: Common Armor, Weapon, and Shield Hardness and Hit Points; Table: Substance Hardness and Hit Points; and Table: Object Hardness and Hit Points).
Post by: hops on June 25, 2017, 01:21:07 am
Anyone know who this "Vaaruvius" person is? Some new supporting character...? :PActually the elf is Eglamore.
Post by: Greiger on June 25, 2017, 12:45:55 pm
Heck even less if the poor sod didn't take Great Cleave... 'I attack the ravens.' "Ok you kill one raven." 'Ok cleave' "you killed another raven. Sadly you don't have great cleave. roll 198 D1 for damage."
Post by: hops on June 25, 2017, 12:49:24 pm
Post by: Harry Baldman on June 25, 2017, 12:58:48 pm
So if I'm understanding this correctly in order to defeat a 20th level fighter with some 150 hp you would only need to summon about 200 ravens to take im out in one turn? Isn't there some low level spell like 'summon swarm' or somesuch that could do that? No wonder everyone says fighters suck.
Heck even less if the poor sod didn't take Great Cleave... 'I attack the ravens.' "Ok you kill one raven." 'Ok cleave' "you killed another raven. Sadly you don't have great cleave. roll 198 D1 for damage."
Swarms work a little differently, they do an amount of guaranteed damage if I recall correctly, not several hundred individual attacks because that'd be bloody stupid. Granted, fighters without extra tricks are still in trouble when it comes to dealing with swarms since they tend to be borderline immune or actually immune to weapon damage.
It also reflects that 200 ravens likely couldn't muster the necessary surface area to all attack one Medium-sized fighter. Even for Tiny or Diminutive creatures there are limits.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on June 25, 2017, 01:13:36 pm
A tiny creature like a raven has a reach of 0 feet, so it would have to occupy the same square.
Therefore 4 ravens could attack someone at once if they aren't being counted as a swarm.
Post by: Criptfeind on June 25, 2017, 01:13:45 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on June 25, 2017, 01:27:30 pm
Post by: smjjames on June 25, 2017, 01:43:08 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on June 25, 2017, 02:05:12 pm
No wonder everyone says fighters suck.
Eh, that's mostly because wizards have access to a bunch of things that straight-up incapicitate people while not allowing saving throws[Ray of Enfeeblement and Forcecage are the big ones I remember] or while targetting peoples' weak saving throws[Dominate Person, Otiluke's Resilient Sphere]. All this on top of several effects that make them very hard to hurt without magic of your own[Divination magic, Fly, basically any illusion spell]. There are some feats and builds that help to some extent, but Otiluke's Resilient Sphere in particular is straight-up invulnerable to non-magical damage and checks Reflex saves, which aren't that good for Fighters.
Post by: Criptfeind on June 25, 2017, 02:18:47 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on June 26, 2017, 12:33:53 am
Post by: Mathel on June 26, 2017, 06:24:29 am
Also, with the immunity to damage, does that apply even to swarms of stuff like ravens, which could be hit by a weapon.
I have no idea what would the 3 fiends accomplish by using some of the time they get to own Varsaavius now. Yes, they would delay him, but according to current knowldge it would not hurt the party much.
They would hurt the party much more by taking him over at the start of the fight with the giants.
Post by: Culise on June 26, 2017, 06:48:28 am
So bog standard fighters and swarms. Can we get a fighter to fight 1000 mosquitoes?Sure. That's when we try to argue with the GM that Great Cleave should work on individual mosquitoes within a swarm. :D
Post by: hops on June 26, 2017, 07:37:09 am
Post by: Mathel on June 26, 2017, 09:22:04 am
(It was in a homebrew campain I run.) He did not even think about setting the swarms on fire with his fire spell (he had one.)
Post by: Criptfeind on June 26, 2017, 09:41:02 am
Also, with the immunity to damage, does that apply even to swarms of stuff like ravens, which could be hit by a weapon.
Can't tell you about pathfinder but in 3.5 I think typically a swarm made of tiny creatures takes half damage from slashing and piercing weapons and and swarms made of smaller creatures take no weapon damage. There are a few ways past this. Torches do a minuscule amount of fire damage. Weapons enchanted with energy damage do their energy damage still (although that's typically not a lot.) I feel like there's ways to transform weapon damage into energy damage, although I can't recall any off the top of my head, but I'm sure there's an enchant or something somewhere that'd do it, which would probably be your best bet for beating a swarm to death with a weapon.
Post by: MrWiggles on June 28, 2017, 06:31:56 am
Well in Pathfinder they take no damage from slashing, piercing(sp) or bashing (or the harder way to spell it). And they take no damage from any spell which targets a single creature. The framing, is that its a swarm. You cannot defeat it in any meaningful amount of time by killing it one at a time. So while sure, you swing the sword into a swarm and you are defaintly killing some of them, you aren't killing enough of them at once for it to really matter. The same for magic missile ect. I happen to know a but, because we were playing a horror campaign, and uh... 4 level 2 character couldnt take out one swarm of rats. Nearly killed all of us. We came back at it when we were level 3, and we had viles of stuff to set a square on fire, and therefore set the rats on the square on fire. ANd we nearly died anyway and our half vampire palading thingy nearly died to the rat fevor disease thing they have. But we did manage to break the floor safe from dropping it from the high tower the rats were living.Also, with the immunity to damage, does that apply even to swarms of stuff like ravens, which could be hit by a weapon.
Can't tell you about pathfinder but in 3.5 I think typically a swarm made of tiny creatures takes half damage from slashing and piercing weapons and and swarms made of smaller creatures take no weapon damage. There are a few ways past this. Torches do a minuscule amount of fire damage. Weapons enchanted with energy damage do their energy damage still (although that's typically not a lot.) I feel like there's ways to transform weapon damage into energy damage, although I can't recall any off the top of my head, but I'm sure there's an enchant or something somewhere that'd do it, which would probably be your best bet for beating a swarm to death with a weapon.
Post by: Akura on June 28, 2017, 06:48:31 am
This (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/swarm.htm) is the swarm page for the 3.5e SRD(see this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#swarmSubtype) as well). Swarms cannot be hurt be weapons or single-target effects(like magic missile), but take an extra 50% from area effects(fireball). Using a torch as a weapon still deals 1d3 fire damage a hit, and weapons that do energy damage(such as a flaming sword) do the full energy damage per hit(but not the weapon's damage). They do not attack(or make AoO), but instead enter their opponent's space(provoking AoO from opponent) and do automatic damage(no attack roll) at the end of their move action.
Post by: scriver on June 28, 2017, 06:52:25 am
Post by: Mathel on June 28, 2017, 07:03:24 am
Post by: scriver on June 28, 2017, 07:25:33 am
Post by: Mathel on June 28, 2017, 07:56:04 am
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/German_-_Close_Helmet_of_the_%22Maximilian%22_Style_-_Walters_51465_-_Profile.jpg/114px-German_-_Close_Helmet_of_the_%22Maximilian%22_Style_-_Walters_51465_-_Profile.jpg)
Post by: Madman198237 on June 28, 2017, 08:15:56 am
That is why you have a helmet with a visor. One of these.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/German_-_Close_Helmet_of_the_%22Maximilian%22_Style_-_Walters_51465_-_Profile.jpg/114px-German_-_Close_Helmet_of_the_%22Maximilian%22_Style_-_Walters_51465_-_Profile.jpg)
Also great for head-butts!
Post by: Criptfeind on June 28, 2017, 11:07:04 am
Swarms cannot be hurt be weapons
Except if they are composed of tiny creatures, as per your second link. Which means that bird and rat swarms can still be killed, abet slightly slower, by weapons. Solving the issues Scriver pointed out with the realism of how many rats you'd need to make such a swarm that killing a few per hit don't truly matter!
Armors a weird one though, although armor can often be a strange thing in D&D (like why does Adamantine armor give dr? Does it toughen your flesh by proximity?)
Post by: GiglameshDespair on June 28, 2017, 11:16:09 am
I suppose it shows that even what would be a successful hit against steel armour would fail to penetrate adamantine without a certain level of force behind it.Swarms cannot be hurt be weapons
Except if they are composed of tiny creatures, as per your second link. Which means that bird and rat swarms can still be killed, abet slightly slower, by weapons. Solving the issues Scriver pointed out with the realism of how many rats you'd need to make such a swarm that killing a few per hit don't truly matter!
Armors a weird one though, although armor can often be a strange thing in D&D (like why does Adamantine armor give dr? Does it toughen your flesh by proximity?)
Post by: Mathel on June 28, 2017, 11:30:45 am
Post by: Criptfeind on June 28, 2017, 12:57:13 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on June 28, 2017, 01:16:41 pm
Post by: Mathel on June 28, 2017, 01:35:00 pm
In the end, while the armor could give some chance to give some chance to negate glancing hits. But the hits that are glancing with the armor would be low damage ones without it. So DR would just make the weak hits do no damage at all.
The problem I have with the AC system in D&D is, that you can wear plate armor over your whole body, the seams have covered by chainmail, and slashing you with a scimitar can inflict exactly the same damage as if you did not have it. Less often, but the same damage, even though there is nowhere where it can cut you.
Post by: Arcvasti on June 28, 2017, 02:23:31 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on June 28, 2017, 04:40:43 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on June 30, 2017, 06:39:53 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on June 30, 2017, 06:49:33 pm
Post by: smjjames on June 30, 2017, 06:57:08 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on June 30, 2017, 07:00:18 pm
(Hyperbole. Except... Tome of Battle)
Post by: Egan_BW on June 30, 2017, 07:16:36 pm
Post by: Felissan on July 01, 2017, 03:09:38 am
Post by: hops on July 01, 2017, 04:21:47 am
Post by: Criptfeind on July 01, 2017, 05:03:13 am
Post by: Mathel on July 01, 2017, 09:30:38 am
Post by: Playergamer on July 01, 2017, 09:31:42 am
I just hope, that the sword summon action is not something he is likely to do on accident.I knew it was going to recall, and I was just hoping he'd accidentally stab V, very dramatic and then...oh wait it doesn't do enough damage to one-shot anyway.
Post by: Mathel on July 01, 2017, 09:33:15 am
Unless the target is undead and the green glow activates.I just hope, that the sword summon action is not something he is likely to do on accident.I knew it was going to recall, and I was just hoping he'd accidentally stab V, very dramatic and then...oh wait it doesn't do enough damage to one-shot anyway.
Post by: Akura on July 01, 2017, 01:25:53 pm
oh wait it doesn't do enough damage to one-shot anyway.Hard to say on that. A human-sized greatsword does 2d6 damage, Roy's has a +5 modifier in addition to the green fire, add in Roy's Strength bonus, and for lulz, add a critical hit.
Depending on the damage caused by the green fire effect, that might qualify for a Massive Damage save. Even if it doesn't, V has a poor Constitution and wizards get a crappy hit die anyway, they might not even survive to need a Massive Damage save.
Post by: Madman198237 on July 01, 2017, 02:39:01 pm
Maybe that's how Belkar dies, Royaccidentallyintentionally summons his sword into Belkar's face.
FTFY
Post by: Xantalos on July 01, 2017, 06:37:47 pm
Post by: Akura on July 01, 2017, 06:41:56 pm
Post by: Dorsidwarf on July 01, 2017, 09:28:57 pm
No. Also, I'm not 100% sure if the Oracle wasn't just lying to Belkar in the first place.I'm pretty sure the Oracle confirmed his "last breath - ever" to Ghosty Roy when he showed up with his prophesy speak
Post by: Rolan7 on July 06, 2017, 01:43:05 pm
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 06, 2017, 02:37:35 pm
Post by: smjjames on July 06, 2017, 02:42:28 pm
It's faster than it was for the last six months... but it's still awfully slow isn't it?
Slow compared to some other comics, yeah, and Rich doesn't have a regular schedule, and asking 'when is the next comic?' isn't allowed on the forum there.
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 06, 2017, 03:42:49 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 06, 2017, 05:14:33 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on July 06, 2017, 09:12:48 pm
It's faster than it was for the last six months... but it's still awfully slow isn't it?The increased update speed can probably be attributed to his finishing the O-Chul story.
Post by: Mathel on July 07, 2017, 12:19:43 am
Post by: Rolan7 on July 08, 2017, 09:10:57 am
Cool, I'll take it. Might also help that this one's talky again, but I liked it.It's faster than it was for the last six months... but it's still awfully slow isn't it?The increased update speed can probably be attributed to his finishing the O-Chul story.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on July 08, 2017, 09:45:48 am
Post by: Felissan on July 08, 2017, 09:54:08 am
Post by: Enemy post on July 08, 2017, 10:07:47 am
Post by: hops on July 08, 2017, 10:22:08 am
Burlew operates under the delusion that severely restricting the topics that can be talked about will produce civility. In practice, that forum appears rather civil on the surface, but is extremely nasty once you get a little deeper.What else could you expect from a forum about Gian Tit anyways?
Post by: smjjames on July 10, 2017, 12:44:24 pm
Scene change and Hel is not happy. Though she did drop a metaphorical shoe. I'm sure the forumers over there are going to search for where the chekovs gun appeared.
Post by: hops on July 10, 2017, 01:20:19 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on July 10, 2017, 01:22:17 pm
Post by: Felissan on July 10, 2017, 02:28:32 pm
Post by: Mathel on July 10, 2017, 02:34:07 pm
Should have picked Vaporizing Flu instead.I suspect she could not propagate a disease that was not already there.
Though maybe she could have given Elan collon tumor.
Post by: Helgoland on July 10, 2017, 02:46:01 pm
Scene change and Hel is not happy. Though she did drop a metaphorical shoe. I'm sure the forumers over there are going to search for where the chekovs gun appeared.'Every man and woman' - not V, apparently.
Post by: Akura on July 10, 2017, 07:04:10 pm
This would also be very good opportunity for Durkon to rub some previously-said exact words (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0954.html) back in the face of the vampire spirit.
Of course, this could mean that the crew of the Mechane is doomed.
Post by: Mathel on July 11, 2017, 12:36:26 am
Post by: DAPARROT on July 11, 2017, 12:52:06 am
The thing is, from what vampire-Durkon was saying earlier, clerics are sometimes using spells from different gods. He was able to use weather controlling and said, that there is a contract between gods. If Thor refused to help the cleric of Hel, Hel might refuse to cure diseases for other clerics. She could refuse anyway, for the party.If she did that, it would break the agreement, since she is not letting clerics of other gods cure diseases
Post by: Egan_BW on July 11, 2017, 01:01:05 am
Post by: Mathel on July 11, 2017, 03:23:53 am
Post by: Zangi on July 11, 2017, 11:30:24 am
Usually a breeding ground for senseless arguments and shitposting.It's faster than it was for the last six months... but it's still awfully slow isn't it?
Slow compared to some other comics, yeah, and Rich doesn't have a regular schedule, and asking 'when is the next comic?' isn't allowed on the forum there.
Post by: smjjames on July 11, 2017, 11:36:12 am
Usually a breeding ground for senseless arguments and shitposting.It's faster than it was for the last six months... but it's still awfully slow isn't it?
Slow compared to some other comics, yeah, and Rich doesn't have a regular schedule, and asking 'when is the next comic?' isn't allowed on the forum there.
I can get 'when is the next comic?' being disencouraged, but in general, that forums rules seem pretty restrictive.
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 11, 2017, 04:14:57 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on July 13, 2017, 12:38:03 pm
Aren't they about to go to a major temple to Thor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1024.html), a god whose dwarven clerics will likely have ready access to Remove Disease because something like that would send dwarven souls to Hel rather than Thor?I don't remember if we know exactly what "Odin and the rest" will do to the offender, but seems like it's serious enough to be a win for Hel.
This would also be very good opportunity for Durkon to rub some previously-said exact words (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0954.html) back in the face of the vampire spirit.
Of course, this could mean that the crew of the Mechane is doomed.
Post by: Akura on July 13, 2017, 05:16:16 pm
Post by: Mathel on July 14, 2017, 12:22:38 am
Post by: scriver on July 14, 2017, 01:51:30 am
Post by: Dorsidwarf on July 14, 2017, 11:54:13 am
Yes, but maybe she'd bank on no longer needing those powers to complete her plan.
I thought Hel was explicitly playing strictly by the book to shame the other gods into honouring the agreement. If she starts breaking the rules, there's no reason for them to honour the agreement either and she might lose all those souls.
Post by: Culise on July 14, 2017, 12:31:03 pm
Indeed. For example, the compact is what allows clerics to cast their full range of spells. Without it, domain restrictions (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0954.html) become much more...ah, restrictive. Given that the entire plan hinges on Durkula being able to dominate the voting elders, if Domination happens to fall under another god's portfolio (f'rex, the manipulative Loki), losing it would be major potential crimp in their game plan. Moreover, if the rules of the game get thrown out, she may have to worry about the original vote itself being disqualified. Several of the gods who happened to vote alongside her only did so as a protest vote, as Hermod indicated, or not knowing the full consequences of the act; the "no backsies (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1001.html)" rule could easily be next on the chopping block if the compact falls apart, and if that happens, she loses her own voting base. The plan only works because the rules benefit her right now. If she breaks the rules, they get to do the same gratis. If they break the rules first, they get to fall apart in recrimination between the Lawful and Chaotic wings, which keeps them busy while she gets on with the plan.Yes, but maybe she'd bank on no longer needing those powers to complete her plan.
I thought Hel was explicitly playing strictly by the book to shame the other gods into honouring the agreement. If she starts breaking the rules, there's no reason for them to honour the agreement either and she might lose all those souls.
It helps that the older links above inspired me to reread the whole arc quickly; I had forgotten quite a bit of this in the interim.
EDIT: Actually, scratch that specific spell example. I just checked since it was bothering me, and Dominate Person is not a Cleric spell. It's a supernatural ability innate to all vampires and is thus unaffected by the compact. Ah, well, the voting point still stands.
Post by: Akura on July 14, 2017, 08:06:30 pm
(f'rex, the manipulative Loki)
Loki's domains are Fire and Trickery. Fire domain is explicitly stated in the same strip we both linked, and as for Trickery, it's Loki.
Nah, Hel is good.Pretty sure Hel is evil. :P
Whether she's Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic... I'm guessing Neutral. She's willing to play by the rules as long as the rules are necessary.
Post by: Zangi on July 17, 2017, 09:48:03 am
She is actually banking on it for this particular case.
Post by: smjjames on July 17, 2017, 09:54:04 am
Looks like in her memory replay she got jinxed by tricky Loki bringing in a drunken Thor. Though of course, she literally says that in the first panel.
Post by: hops on July 17, 2017, 10:05:02 am
Post by: smjjames on July 17, 2017, 10:11:59 am
I don't think being Chaotic necessarily precludes you from participating in lawful acts, even if you are a divine being. Loki certainly didn't eschew the Godsmoot.
Loki's trickery is more in the 'mischief maker' rather than 'lawbreaker' zone.
Post by: hops on July 17, 2017, 10:15:49 am
Post by: Mathel on July 17, 2017, 11:44:26 am
I don't think being Chaotic necessarily precludes you from participating in lawful acts, even if you are a divine being. Loki certainly didn't eschew the Godsmoot.2 reasons why you are right.
A) Being chaotic is not that you are directly opposed to the laws, but that you do not care about them. If you made sure you broke laws all the time, it would be predictable, not chaotic.
B) Many laws are written in negative, forbidding stuff rather than ordering it. It would be pretty difficult to be permanently breaking those.
Post by: Enemy post on July 20, 2017, 01:00:20 pm
Post by: hops on July 20, 2017, 01:24:45 pm
Post by: TD1 on July 20, 2017, 02:35:36 pm
Post by: Enemy post on July 20, 2017, 02:46:50 pm
Could someone remind me why they're going to the Temple of Thor?
The Temple of Thor has a passage the Order can use to get into the Dwarven capital quickly. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1024.html)
Post by: Akura on July 20, 2017, 04:52:31 pm
One thing I've wondered about. Hel's representative at the Godsmoot, how is she getting her nightly blood drink? I doubt she could feed on any of the other attendees without violating a rule that would get her instantly smoked.
Post by: crazyabe on July 20, 2017, 04:54:08 pm
One thing I've wondered about. Hel's representative at the Godsmoot, how is she getting her nightly blood drink? I doubt she could feed on any of the other attendees without violating a rule that would get her instantly smoked.Thats quite simple! they are "Convincing" the other Attendees to donate to Hel's faith.
Post by: Akura on July 20, 2017, 04:59:52 pm
Post by: JacobVR on July 20, 2017, 05:00:50 pm
Post by: hops on July 20, 2017, 06:41:59 pm
And also, clerics. Clerics with Remove Disease, Raise Dead, possibly Resurrection... that might also make good vampire clerics of Hel.They've already fulfilled their purpose, so Hel will likely just let them die.
One thing I've wondered about. Hel's representative at the Godsmoot, how is she getting her nightly blood drink? I doubt she could feed on any of the other attendees without violating a rule that would get her instantly smoked.
Post by: Enemy post on July 20, 2017, 10:25:00 pm
And also, clerics. Clerics with Remove Disease, Raise Dead, possibly Resurrection... that might also make good vampire clerics of Hel.They've already fulfilled their purpose, so Hel will likely just let them die.
One thing I've wondered about. Hel's representative at the Godsmoot, how is she getting her nightly blood drink? I doubt she could feed on any of the other attendees without violating a rule that would get her instantly smoked.
If she died of thirst before Durkula can force the dwarf leaders to vote Yes, then Hel's vote would be nullified.
Post by: DAPARROT on July 22, 2017, 06:49:55 pm
I don't think dnd vampire need blood to survive, but they do go insane if they go too long without drinking anyAnd also, clerics. Clerics with Remove Disease, Raise Dead, possibly Resurrection... that might also make good vampire clerics of Hel.They've already fulfilled their purpose, so Hel will likely just let them die.
One thing I've wondered about. Hel's representative at the Godsmoot, how is she getting her nightly blood drink? I doubt she could feed on any of the other attendees without violating a rule that would get her instantly smoked.
If she died of thirst before Durkula can force the dwarf leaders to vote Yes, then Hel's vote would be nullified.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on July 24, 2017, 10:31:53 am
Post by: smjjames on July 24, 2017, 10:46:55 am
edit: Someone on the GITP forum found it: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1024.html so, it's unknown what happened to the stone that Durkon had previously.
Post by: hops on July 24, 2017, 11:37:00 am
Post by: Akura on July 24, 2017, 12:26:37 pm
it's unknown what happened to the stone that Durkon had previously.
Probably confiscated/destroyed upon banishment. Wouldn't make sense to kick a guy out but leave him the key to get back in(or not change the locks).
Post by: Mathel on July 24, 2017, 01:38:03 pm
Hm, who did Durkon give his stone to, Roy? I remember the team getting one of those stones which would get access to the secret entrance, but I forget from whom.
edit: Someone on the GITP forum found it: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1024.html so, it's unknown what happened to the stone that Durkon had previously.
Undurkon is a different person. Thus, it was taken from him by Undurkon and it now crumbled.
Post by: hops on July 24, 2017, 02:08:05 pm
Post by: Culise on July 24, 2017, 03:17:58 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 27, 2017, 07:50:38 pm
Post by: Enemy post on July 31, 2017, 03:08:09 pm
Post by: hops on July 31, 2017, 03:18:53 pm
Post by: smjjames on July 31, 2017, 03:28:44 pm
New comic, new character, and more vampire stuff. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1087.html)
Not actually the new character. That's the former exarch of the brotherhood of stone, he's one of not-durkons first victims. Unless you mean the amateur bard-dwarf.
Post by: Enemy post on July 31, 2017, 03:44:52 pm
New comic, new character, and more vampire stuff. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1087.html)
Not actually the new character. That's the former exarch of the brotherhood of stone, he's one of not-durkons first victims. Unless you mean the amateur bard-dwarf.
I mean the bard. Maybe it's a bit premature, but I'm guessing we're going to see her again.
Post by: Mathel on August 01, 2017, 12:15:07 am
Post by: Enemy post on August 01, 2017, 12:59:57 am
Post by: Enemy post on August 03, 2017, 06:54:28 pm
Post by: Mathel on August 04, 2017, 12:44:09 am
((That is, if there are any there.))
Post by: Enemy post on August 04, 2017, 01:19:51 am
Post by: Xantalos on August 04, 2017, 01:27:17 am
I wonder, while Durkon can not lie to Durkula, could he show only parts of the truth? For example could he show a feast hall, but not the wards hidden out of sight, which he knows about?He did do that with the wardstones just recently.
((That is, if there are any there.))
Post by: Felissan on August 04, 2017, 04:10:25 am
Post by: hops on August 04, 2017, 04:16:56 am
Post by: smjjames on August 07, 2017, 08:17:21 pm
Durkon trying to gross out the vampire spirit, heh.
Post by: Mathel on August 08, 2017, 12:09:15 am
But anyway, is Hel not the godess of diseases?
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 08, 2017, 12:12:30 am
Post by: Remalle on August 10, 2017, 02:32:10 pm
Post by: Akura on August 10, 2017, 02:56:02 pm
Vampire cleric of Hel is grossed out by diseases? What the He... Oh wait.
But anyway, is Hel not the godess of diseases?
Food poisoning isn't disease. It's poison.
...But wait, aren't dwarves resistant to poison? What the hell did he eat?!
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 10, 2017, 03:05:04 pm
Now there's some rules lawyering.
Post by: hops on August 10, 2017, 03:23:54 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 10, 2017, 03:28:20 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on August 13, 2017, 01:35:18 am
Post by: Enemy post on August 14, 2017, 11:48:43 am
Post by: Xantalos on August 14, 2017, 12:16:05 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 14, 2017, 12:18:18 pm
Post by: smjjames on August 14, 2017, 12:20:21 pm
When did Belkar get a dragon?
That's the allosaur that Belkar befriended. It got polymorphed into a lizard during the fight with Elans dad after the pyramid exploded.
It's a t-rex, not a dragon.
Pretty sure it was referred to as an allosaur.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on August 14, 2017, 12:21:13 pm
Post by: Mathel on August 14, 2017, 01:19:04 pm
Post by: Greiger on August 14, 2017, 01:29:05 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on August 14, 2017, 01:30:53 pm
So other than the GM saying 'lol no you don't get a dinosaur' is there a reason why they didn't dispel that polymorph on the little guy yet?Secret weapon?
Post by: Culise on August 14, 2017, 01:32:48 pm
Post by: smjjames on August 14, 2017, 01:33:14 pm
So other than the GM saying 'lol no you don't get a dinosaur' is there a reason why they didn't dispel that polymorph on the little guy yet?
It being too big for the flying boat is a plausible reason.
edit: ninja'd somewhat.
Post by: TheBiggerFish on August 14, 2017, 01:34:17 pm
Post by: hops on August 14, 2017, 02:25:45 pm
Also, I just realized, like the slowpoke I am, that Belkar is doing ranger things and actually befriending animals.
It's not too much to hope that his death would be metaphorical, won't it?
Post by: TheBiggerFish on August 14, 2017, 02:29:16 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 14, 2017, 02:34:34 pm
Post by: hops on August 14, 2017, 02:36:23 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 14, 2017, 02:37:07 pm
However, after this long and all of Rich's teasing, it would be more of a surprise if he just died.
Post by: Lord Shonus on August 14, 2017, 03:14:44 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on August 14, 2017, 03:28:07 pm
In order to fulfill the prophecies without dying, Belkar would have to turn into something that cannot breathe, cannot use money, and cannot eat cake.What?
Post by: Lord Shonus on August 14, 2017, 03:51:14 pm
The obvious intention is that he's going to die forever within a year, so he'll have no more birthdays and no use for money.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 14, 2017, 04:04:41 pm
Post by: Akura on August 14, 2017, 04:41:02 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on August 14, 2017, 04:41:14 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on August 14, 2017, 05:27:43 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on August 14, 2017, 05:45:24 pm
The only part that was actually prophecy was "Belkar will draw his last breath - ever - before the end of the year". The parts about him savoring his next cake and not funding his IRA were merely threats suggesting the prophecy is his permanent death(and does not rule out becoming undead).
Read those strips again. Or, for that matter, read one of the two or three hundred "how Belkar isn't going to die" threads over on GiTP. Most of his casual comments also proved prophetic. The only thing that was different about the "on the record" prophecy is that it would have survived the Memory Charm had that actually worked on Roy.
Post by: TheBiggerFish on August 14, 2017, 05:46:38 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on August 14, 2017, 06:02:08 pm
In 329 he references the birthday cake and the IRA
In 330 he makes one casual prophecy - that both Roy and Elan are headed to family reunions. This happened - Roy died and spent time with his dead family in the afterlife, and Elan met his father.
In 572 the Oracle makes two comments that can be prophetic plus the official prophecy
The first is that Belkar isn't long for this world.
The other is that he has an important client flying in.
The second one is the Ancient Black Dragon, who learned who killed her son and where that person would be from the Oracle. While this could be a sending, we don't see any Sending happen. Probably an accurate prophecy.
He also gives great detail about his next death and scheduled resurrection in 571, where he proves that his earlier answer to Belkar was not a cop-out - he knew perfectly well that Belkar was going to stab him, and how messy it would be.
With the exception of Belkar-related stuff that hasn't happened yet - every single line from the Oracle that could possibly be prophetic has come true, even when not on the record.
Post by: Egan_BW on August 14, 2017, 06:05:12 pm
It's a perfect opportunity to cause Belkar emotional distress if Roy tells him, and might make Roy send him on suicide missions because Roy knows he's going to die soon anyway.
Post by: hops on August 15, 2017, 01:44:39 am
Post by: Enemy post on August 17, 2017, 04:48:55 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on August 17, 2017, 05:06:56 pm
Interesting update regardless.
Post by: Enemy post on August 22, 2017, 09:53:24 am
Post by: smjjames on August 22, 2017, 10:03:48 am
Post by: Akura on August 22, 2017, 04:35:31 pm
Searing Light and Daylight are both 3rd-level spells, meaning those clerics are at least 5th-level. Probably not too bad for night-duty guards, but certainly by-and-far inadequate to repel a vampire. Especially one of Durkon's level. Or four >10th-level vampires. They also misunderstood Daylight's effects, since it apparently does not actually affect vampires(it doesn't count as actual daylight and vampires aren't weakened by bright light).
Post by: Enemy post on August 25, 2017, 09:25:13 pm
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 25, 2017, 11:31:56 pm
*puts on analysis hat*Seeing as they talked about "definitely having more" divine power, I'm going to guess that they're not actually full-fledged clerics—just regular priests who've acquired a few spells through diligent study, or because of the current situation, or whatever.
Searing Light and Daylight are both 3rd-level spells, meaning those clerics are at least 5th-level. Probably not too bad for night-duty guards, but certainly by-and-far inadequate to repel a vampire. Especially one of Durkon's level. Or four >10th-level vampires. They also misunderstood Daylight's effects, since it apparently does not actually affect vampires(it doesn't count as actual daylight and vampires aren't weakened by bright light).
Or maybe they just used up all their spells earlier, I dunno.
Post by: Rolan7 on August 25, 2017, 11:41:48 pm
Post by: smjjames on August 25, 2017, 11:49:13 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on August 25, 2017, 11:52:26 pm
Maybe I've played too much Vampire the Requiem recently... There's certainly no *rule* about that, just saying.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 25, 2017, 11:58:02 pm
Though that actually opens the hilarious possibility of them panicking and then realizing it's just normal panic instead of the supernatural panic of unlife.
Post by: Egan_BW on August 26, 2017, 12:00:11 am
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 26, 2017, 12:07:59 am
Post by: Egan_BW on August 26, 2017, 12:10:12 am
Post by: Trekkin on August 26, 2017, 12:15:33 am
Fine, optic portal to the sky just below the holy firmament, on whichever side of the planet is currently in daytime.
Or you could cast Wall of Iron a lot in space and get a golem to polish the plates until they shine. Given a set of Decanters of Endless Water to act as a reaction control system, you could have a functioning heliobeam for around 8 million gp.
Come to think of it, if vampires were the only thing such a system was intended to destroy, a set of smaller mirrors in geostationary orbit would allow for localized daylight anywhere on the planet.
Post by: Harry Baldman on August 26, 2017, 04:09:26 am
Could someone come up with a spell that shoots ACTUAL sunlight? Like, open a lens to space right next to a star kinda thing.
Sunbeam (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sunbeam.htm) and Sunburst (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sunburst.htm)! Sadly only the domain of druids, sun clerics and (only for Sunburst) wizards, but it's definitely around.
Post by: scriver on August 26, 2017, 08:56:20 am
Could someone come up with a spell that shoots ACTUAL sunlight? Like, open a lens to space right next to a star kinda thing.
At that point you might just open a portal to the Elemental Plane of Sun and throw the vampire into it :P
Edit: also, I'm kinda hoping the dwarf focus of this chapter will mean we get to see Helga (or whayever tbe name of Durkon's original Linear Guild countwrpart and love interest was) again.
Post by: Mathel on August 26, 2017, 08:58:17 am
Post by: i2amroy on August 26, 2017, 12:05:49 pm
Post by: hops on August 26, 2017, 01:08:16 pm
Post by: TD1 on August 26, 2017, 01:10:22 pm
Post by: hops on August 26, 2017, 03:49:09 pm
Post by: Trekkin on August 26, 2017, 04:12:35 pm
My question is: do we have an Epic spell that literally throws a mini-Sun at people?
Yep. It's called Hellball.
Post by: smjjames on August 29, 2017, 02:35:48 pm
Post by: Akura on August 29, 2017, 04:15:52 pm
Post by: Helgoland on August 29, 2017, 05:40:05 pm
Post by: scriver on August 29, 2017, 05:47:26 pm
I guess someone is aware of a certain prophecy.
Oooh riiight. I had forgot about that.
...Again.
Post by: Mathel on August 29, 2017, 11:33:27 pm
I guess someone is aware of a certain prophecy.
Which one?
The only one that I remember and would apply is that Durkon will finally return home posthumously, but the lamenting dwarf probably does not know about that one.
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on August 30, 2017, 01:34:57 am
Uh, there was one made by a dwarven priest that the next time Durkon would come back home, he would cause a calamity, or something like that. I think it was why he was banished in the first place.I guess someone is aware of a certain prophecy.
Which one?
The only one that I remember and would apply is that Durkon will finally return home posthumously, but the lamenting dwarf probably does not know about that one.
I think, don't quote me on that.
Post by: hops on August 30, 2017, 02:26:44 am
Post by: Mathel on August 30, 2017, 02:29:31 am
That is a very stupid reason to banish someone.Uh, there was one made by a dwarven priest that the next time Durkon would come back home, he would cause a calamity, or something like that. I think it was why he was banished in the first place.I guess someone is aware of a certain prophecy.
Which one?
The only one that I remember and would apply is that Durkon will finally return home posthumously, but the lamenting dwarf probably does not know about that one.
I think, don't quote me on that.
Either kill him and burn the corpse, or prevent him from leaving in the first place.
Or at least tell him about it, so he does not try to return. (Though this would have not helped in this case.)
Post by: hops on August 30, 2017, 02:39:39 am
Post by: Akura on August 30, 2017, 04:43:25 am
Too bad that one of the two paladins who were listening was batshit insane...
Post by: Mathel on September 05, 2017, 01:19:25 pm
Spoiler: Actual spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: smjjames on September 05, 2017, 01:35:37 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 05, 2017, 01:45:19 pm
Post by: Xantalos on September 05, 2017, 01:57:43 pm
Post by: Trekkin on September 05, 2017, 02:20:48 pm
Wouldn't a valid solution to the prophecy be just never having Durkon leave in the first place?
"Returns home" is worryingly vague, though. It might trigger when Durkon steps outside the mountain briefly, or when he gets home from work, or when next he's around his family, depending on what is meant by "home". Prophecies are fiddly like that.
You could probably get around that by immuring him in a disused tunnel or something, but that's even worse than exile.
Post by: Akura on September 05, 2017, 04:53:06 pm
Quote from: Elan
I thought they, like, lost his dwarf paperwork or something!
Of course, the bard inadvertently hits the nail on the head.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 05, 2017, 04:59:04 pm
A. The prophecy will come to pass in the absolute manner in which it was intended, no matter what you do. This is immensely distressing since it suggests prophecies just tell the future and there's no free will. Anyway, there's nothing you can do about it, so just go back to your automaton life and wait for the axe to fall.
B. The prophecy is some sort of magical heuristic set that pushes on reality in order to reach any eligible end-state. Durkon goes outside for a second and triggers a landslide, Durkon spiritually "leaves home" and invokes Thor's wrath upon the whole city when he tries to repent, Durkon's vengeful soul breaks free from the phylactery you imprisoned it in a thousand years ago and exterminates the dwarfs. Something that fulfills the sense implied by the words of the prophecy.
In such a situation as B, you should probably try to game the system by moving everyone into another city and having Durkon intentionally collapse the old cavern afterwards. It might not work but it's all you've got, really.
Post by: Lord Shonus on September 05, 2017, 05:05:12 pm
Wouldn't a valid solution to the prophecy be just never having Durkon leave in the first place?
"Returns home" is worryingly vague, though. It might trigger when Durkon steps outside the mountain briefly, or when he gets home from work, or when next he's around his family, depending on what is meant by "home". Prophecies are fiddly like that.
You could probably get around that by immuring him in a disused tunnel or something, but that's even worse than exile.
Pretty sure that was explicitly brought up when the prophecy was originally revealed (in On The Origin of PCs, one of the print-only prequel books). The fear was that he'd doom everybody the next time he opened his front door, as he wasn't at home when the prophecy was given.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 05, 2017, 05:37:44 pm
There's really only two reasonable approaches when one has reason to believe there is a genuine prophecy in play.
A. The prophecy will come to pass in the absolute manner in which it was intended, no matter what you do. This is immensely distressing since it suggests prophecies just tell the future and there's no free will. Anyway, there's nothing you can do about it, so just go back to your automaton life and wait for the axe to fall.
B. The prophecy is some sort of magical heuristic set that pushes on reality in order to reach any eligible end-state. Durkon goes outside for a second and triggers a landslide, Durkon spiritually "leaves home" and invokes Thor's wrath upon the whole city when he tries to repent, Durkon's vengeful soul breaks free from the phylactery you imprisoned it in a thousand years ago and exterminates the dwarfs. Something that fulfills the sense implied by the words of the prophecy.
In such a situation as B, you should probably try to game the system by moving everyone into another city and having Durkon intentionally collapse the old cavern afterwards. It might not work but it's all you've got, really.
There would also have to be a C: being that the prophecy is merely one of many different possible futures, though probably a likely one. This means that depending on the manner in which Durkon returns home, he might not actually cause death and destruction after all. Unless you have more specific information, it might be hard to prevent the bad thing from happening anyway.
Post by: scriver on September 05, 2017, 08:40:36 pm
There's really only two reasonable approaches when one has reason to believe there is a genuine prophecy in play.
A. The prophecy will come to pass in the absolute manner in which it was intended, no matter what you do. This is immensely distressing since it suggests prophecies just tell the future and there's no free will. Anyway, there's nothing you can do about it, so just go back to your automaton life and wait for the axe to fall.
I don't see why being able to tell the future true would mean nobody has free will. No matter how many choices you have you can still only pick one. That means that if one can see into the future one can tell which action you will free-willedly choose.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 05, 2017, 09:22:35 pm
Because a prophecy brings back data with certainty. It's the inherent paradox in seeing your own future in a non-multiverse setting: Once you see it, it changes because you've gained knowledge that you wouldn't have had otherwise, and not just once but continuously. So you can never really see your future because if anything happens that you'd want to change (and you will) then you'll never see anything as it forever shifts through your observation-reaction. It stretches out to infinity.There's really only two reasonable approaches when one has reason to believe there is a genuine prophecy in play.
A. The prophecy will come to pass in the absolute manner in which it was intended, no matter what you do. This is immensely distressing since it suggests prophecies just tell the future and there's no free will. Anyway, there's nothing you can do about it, so just go back to your automaton life and wait for the axe to fall.
I don't see why being able to tell the future true would mean nobody has free will. No matter how many choices you have you can still only pick one. That means that if one can see into the future one can tell which action you will free-willedly choose.
If you can see something, then you're either seeing a multiversal copy or you can't truly change your mind. Even if you observe something and change it, it means your "original" plan was a fiction, this outcome was established at the conception of the universe and existed ever since. It was waiting for you to flow down the river of time and reach it.
And if you can't change even once you know, you aren't deciding anything. It just happens. Deterministic universe.
Post by: Trekkin on September 05, 2017, 09:42:32 pm
So whether A or B, it would seem optimal to act as though the universe is deterministic.
Post by: Mathel on September 06, 2017, 12:25:01 am
But also, most of the time it is the actions of those, who are not the agents of the prophercy, that bring about it's fuifilment.
Oidipus was prophecised to kill his father and marry his mother and thus was exiled by them.
Later he returns (unknowing that it is a return), kills his father on the way and marries his mother.
Maybe he would have killed his father anyway, but he certainly would have not willingly married his mother. And neither would she marry him.
There is always the option to kill the agent of the prophercy outright, because if he is dead, he can usually not fuifill it.
In settings with undead and ressurections, you also have to destroy his body and soul.
It worked for Shulk in Xenoblade Chronicles.
But yes, I believe that prophercy is an outcome, predicted including the reaction to it, and enforced by magic.
Post by: Imic on September 06, 2017, 01:18:06 am
Post by: Mathel on September 06, 2017, 01:34:01 am
Post by: Reelya on September 06, 2017, 03:40:40 am
But yes, I believe that prophercy is an outcome, predicted including the reaction to it, and enforced by magic.
Prophecies aren't enforced by magic, they're merely the only possible outcome of the future chain of events. Naturally, taking into account the reaction to the prophecy itself.
There's no magic forcing the thing to happen, it's just the only thing that could happen. What makes the prophecy happen is the internal logic of the chain of events, not some external force.
With prophecies in fiction, the prophecy being its own cause, is self-referential irony. It's quite possible to write prophecy tales which lack the self-refential irony part. However, those tales just didn't endure through the centuries. That's because a narrative coming around in a neat circular conclusion is just more pleasing than one that meanders without much callback to what happened before.
Post by: Mathel on September 06, 2017, 03:56:44 am
Like all those people (at least 2), who knew both Durkon and the prophercy not telling him about it.
Instead, they kicked him out for no apparent reason, giving him a potential reason to come back for revenge.
As seen in Comic 1007 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1007.html), that is part of Undurkon's reason anyway.
Post by: Reelya on September 06, 2017, 03:58:41 am
But there was a point to kicking Durkon out. The prophecy was that the next time he returned home there would be a great calamity. Given that knowledge, then they could either ignore it, assuring that the calamity happens right away, or they could delay him returning home as long as possible, by which means they ensure that the calamity is delayed as long as possible.
e.g. where you're thinking "magic" comes into it is the idea that you have multiple choices and that "no matter" what you do, the prophecy comes true. However ... the whole point is that the prophecy already takes all future decisions into account and that there's only exactly one way that things unfold. So there aren't multiple branches which all end with the prophecy being fulfilled, there's exactly one branch. Which is why no magic is needed to keep the prophecy "on the rails". There's only one possible set of rails.
Post by: Mathel on September 06, 2017, 04:13:37 am
What I am saying is that they should have told him why they are kicking him out.
And if they knew him at least as much as Roy does, then they had a reason to tell him.
It would just make it less likely that he would return, because there could be no case of falsified papers or more important reason then banishment.
That is, unless prophecies have mind altering magic within them, to enforce decisions, which will lead to it's fuifillment.
Post by: Reelya on September 06, 2017, 04:16:53 am
Basically we're talking determinism here, prophecy or not. There's no external magic needed to make determinism happen, so it's not need to "make" a prophecy happen, either.
Also, for Durkon it's mentioned that they trusted in his unerring sense of duty not to break the rule saying he was never to return home. So they had that base covered. The only reason to tell Durkon would be to make Durkon feel better. How would he feel however ... if you told him the world itself would end if he returned home? It's definitely not clear-cut that it would be preferable to tell him about this, rather than just prevent him returning. It's actually a pretty difficult ethical question.
Post by: Helgoland on September 06, 2017, 04:20:18 am
e.g. where you're thinking "magic" comes into it is the idea that you have multiple choices and that "no matter" what you do, the prophecy comes true. However ... the whole point is that the prophecy already takes all future decisions into account and that there's only exactly one way that things unfold. So there aren't multiple branches which all end with the prophecy being fulfilled, there's exactly one branch. Which is why no magic is needed to keep the prophecy "on the rails". There's only one possible set of rails.Ah, but there's a difference between 'The prophecy always comes true' and 'Things have to happen exactly one specific way'. Consider that Croesus, before embarking on his invasion of mighty Persia, went to Delphi and asked the Oracle what would happen if he went to war. He was told he would destroy a great empire. He attacked, and the prophecy came true.
Post by: Reelya on September 06, 2017, 04:24:42 am
In a deterministic universe, Croesus going to the Oracle was predetermined. The prophecy being it's own cause was predetermined as was everything unfolding from that. The prophecy was merely one link in the chain of events, but they're all part of the deterministic future.
For Croesus, when he asked the Oracle what would happen then his choice was pre-ordained. e.g. if he would lose if he went to war the Oracle would say that, meaning he wouldn't go to war, but if he would win, then the Oracle told him that. His decision to go to war was based on what the Oracle told him - but the Oracle didn't have a choice here. It could only tell him the truth - that if he went to war then he'd destroy an empire, ensuring that he did go to war. So there was no possible choice made by either the Oracle or Croesus. There was in fact only one way they could respond.
Post by: Mathel on September 06, 2017, 04:29:01 am
As for killing him; Yeah, but also destroy his soul, so that he can not return via True Ressurection spell.
The thing I find wierd is that at least 2 clerics (Clerics normaly having high wisdom), both of which supposedly knew Durkon would decide not to tell him. That does not seem how they would act if they were not under influence of mind affecting magic. Thus I believe that some magic was involved.
As for deterministic universe, the problem is that clerics should know how prophercies work, so if universe is deterministic, they would know it. Again, it does not explain why they did not tell him.
Post by: Reelya on September 06, 2017, 04:32:30 am
People decided to not tell people difficult stuff all the time, perhaps they decided it would be more cruel to tell him of the prophecy than not?
Post by: Helgoland on September 06, 2017, 04:33:59 am
In a deterministic universe, Croesus going to the Oracle was predetermined. The prophecy being it's own cause was predetermined as was everything unfolding from that. The prophecy was merely one link in the chain of events, but they're all part of the deterministic future.Sure, deterministic universes are deterministic. My point was that prophecies can work outside of deterministic universes as well. Consider here, for example, that Durkon not becoming part of the Order might've lead to Hel's plan going entirely unopposed, bringing doom to dwarvenkind regardless.
Maybe you've missed the point of the Croesus story: The empire he destroyed was his own - Persia utterly crushed Lydia. Regardless of who won the war, the prophecy would've come true.
Post by: Reelya on September 06, 2017, 04:40:23 am
Also I get the irony of the Croesus story, however ... I'd argue that even though different outcomes could satisfy the literal interpretation of the prophecy, there's still only one outcome that was going to happen. e.g. it's highly implausible that there was a coin-flip which neatly resolved into exactly two possible outcomes, Lydia destroyed or Persia destroyed. That is far more unlikely than the simple determinism scenario, where he was given the prophecy, which determined his course, which determined that Lydia would be destroyed, thus informing the original prophecy.
The idea of non-deterministic prophecies would seem to only apply to prophecies which are deliberately vague, e.g. contrived cases.
Back to the point however, there's no special "magic" needed to explain how prophecies come to pass. e.g. it's not like you have a prophecy you're going to be eaten by a lion on one path, and you have a choice between left or right, and get eaten by the lion "either way". Because the prophecy already takes your choice of right or left path into account. e.g. if the lion is on the right path, and you choose to go left, then the prophecy wouldn't have been made in the first place. The prophecy itself only exists in the universe where you decided to walk on the right hand path, thus getting eaten by the lion.
Post by: Mathel on September 06, 2017, 04:52:31 am
Basicaly, what I am getting at is that especially if the universe is deterministic, all actions and inactions have to have a cause.
In a deterministic universe, if you know the current status of the whole universe, you could make a prediction about a future status of the universe.
But the question is, if you knew only that the prophercy was spoken and Durkon's personality as Lawful Good cleric, would you be able to predict his Master and a random other LG cleric not telling him about it?
Because while you keep saying that the universe is deterministic, you have not yet given a sufficient cause for them not to tell him.
If the universe is deterministic, there had to be one.
Post by: Reelya on September 06, 2017, 04:55:08 am
Reelya, do you really think that it is more cruel to tell someone that he has been prophecised to berin death and destruction to all of his people, when he next returns home, then to just kick him out for no reason at all?
Dude, the guy is lawful good. "no reason" vs "because you'll genocide all Dwarfkind".
No reason might be a lot kinder.
Post by: Mathel on September 06, 2017, 05:04:45 am
It said: "
Quote from: Priest of Odin
When next he [Durkon] returns home, he will bring death and destruction to all of us."
The thing is, if the prophercy would be right anyway, that they were lucky it did not come true alredy.
Note the "returns home", not "returns here".
If Durkon created a home somewhere else and then returned to there, he would have somehow brought death and destruction to all of them.
Also bringing death and destruction does not nescessarily mean killing them personaly. It may mean that he will be running from the destruction and seeking shelter.
Post by: Reelya on September 06, 2017, 05:08:35 am
If he's going to be the cause of that death and destruction at an unspecified future point, and you can't do anything about that, would it be kinder to let him live with, or without, that knowledge.
Post by: Mathel on September 06, 2017, 05:28:56 am
Durkon could have just gone to the nearest human city and become a healer there. Then he would be considered at home there and upon his first return to whaterver house he lived in, would bring death and destruction to all of Dwarkind (somehow).
If they told him, he could have kept a nomadic lifestyle, not being home anywhere. Without home to return to, the prophecy could not work.
Post by: Reelya on September 06, 2017, 05:30:49 am
Post by: Mathel on September 06, 2017, 05:43:02 am
He could have settled somewhere else, moving his home. Then he would go for a walk, and upon returning to his new home, bring death and destruction to all of Dwarfkind.
Post by: Reelya on September 06, 2017, 05:51:00 am
Perhaps any Dwarf in that setting (or Dwarfs of Durkon's mentality) would find it inconceivable to consider some house they live in, in Human lands, to be "home". If so, then they could bank on the idea that Durkon would never consider a place he resides in human-controlled lands as home.
Post by: Felissan on September 06, 2017, 05:52:27 am
Post by: Mathel on September 06, 2017, 05:56:06 am
That they have an excuse that is a valid reason? About 30%.
Post by: Reelya on September 06, 2017, 05:57:43 am
Alignment plays a definite role here. Telling him might have been more pragmatically sensible, but at the expense of his mental wellbeing. That attitude might have been more aligned with Lawful Evil rather than Lawful Good.
Post by: Mathel on September 06, 2017, 05:59:52 am
idk what's the dwarven term for home? We can't say for sure that the semantics would be exactly the same there as in modern English. Perhaps the term translates as ancestral home / homeland.
Perhaps any Dwarf in that setting (or Dwarfs of Durkon's mentality) would find it inconceivable to consider some house they live in, in Human lands, to be "home". If so, then they could bank on the idea that Durkon would never consider a place he resides in human-controlled lands as home.
That is entirely possible. But without warning Durkon, he could return to warn them of some great danger, unwittingly showing the danger the path to them. The danger could be great enough to ignore the banishment.
Post by: scriver on September 06, 2017, 06:37:31 am
Because a prophecy brings back data with certainty. It's the inherent paradox in seeing your own future in a non-multiverse setting: Once you see it, it changes because you've gained knowledge that you wouldn't have had otherwise, and not just once but continuously. So you can never really see your future because if anything happens that you'd want to change (and you will) then you'll never see anything as it forever shifts through your observation-reaction. It stretches out to infinity.There's really only two reasonable approaches when one has reason to believe there is a genuine prophecy in play.
A. The prophecy will come to pass in the absolute manner in which it was intended, no matter what you do. This is immensely distressing since it suggests prophecies just tell the future and there's no free will. Anyway, there's nothing you can do about it, so just go back to your automaton life and wait for the axe to fall.
I don't see why being able to tell the future true would mean nobody has free will. No matter how many choices you have you can still only pick one. That means that if one can see into the future one can tell which action you will free-willedly choose.
Not if the vision/prophecy foretold shows the future in which you try to do something about what the prophecy tells you, which is what you try to do after you're aware of the prophecy. To me, that is what happens in Oedipus and other such stories - not that the future is unavoidable, but that the things we do brings about the future. A prophecy that foretells that Oedi will kill his father already takes into account that when Oedifather hears the prophecy he will choose to have Oedipus killed, thereby estranging him from his parents.
Quote
If can see something, then you're either seeing a multiversal copy or you can't truly change your mind. Even if you observe something and change it, it means your "original" plan was a fiction, this outcome was established at the conception of the universe and existed ever since. It was waiting for you to flow down the river of time and reach it.
And if you can't change even once you know, you aren't deciding anything. It just happens. Deterministic universe.
All plans are always fiction, only what happens happens regardless of free will or determinism. Free will is not the same as allpowerful will, or random will. You are constantly barraged by a set of choices and your Everything You decides how you deal with them. But in every choice, you can only choose one action. There doesn't need to be a multiverse for there to be free will, it's just that when one looks forward in a monoverse you will see the exact action people will choose to take in the future, just like when you look back you will only see the actions people chose to take in the past. It does not mean that there is no choice when you take the action, it just means you only make one choice. One can look back and say "what if I did..." but you didn't when provided with the choice to do so. You chose what you chose, and you are going to choose what you are going to choose. The only determining factor is you, but you can only make one choice, can only take one action.
Post by: Mathel on September 06, 2017, 07:19:19 am
The prophecy of priest of Odin said when he next comes home. They bet on the when being never.
As for whether a universe is deterministic, I think it depends on if there is a chance that with all variables the same, events would unfold differently.
The problem I have with self-fuifiling prophercies in deterministic universes is, that they can not happen in a deterministic universe.
You can know what will happen based on current status. The current status says that the prophercy will not come fuifilled.
If the only reason it comes fuifiled is that it was spoken, where did it come from? Was it spoken because it would always happen? That can not be, because it was not going to happen, until it was spoken.
That is, unless the universe really is not deterministic, and the act of speaking the prophecy actually changed the future.
In which case, these self-fuifilling prophecies have to have some magic within them to make them come true.
Post by: Reelya on September 06, 2017, 07:21:32 am
e.g. Oedipus' father chose how to deal with the prophecy, which is what caused the prophecy to become possible.
Choice and determinism aren't necessarily incompatible. The Self is the thing making the decision. The fact that The Self would always makes the same decision given the exact same inputs doesn't mean we lack free will. Lacking free will implies some "external force" forced you to act the way you did. But there's no external force needed. Atoms move the way atoms want to move, the action comes from inside the atoms themselves.
Post by: Mathel on September 06, 2017, 07:23:14 am
Post by: Reelya on September 06, 2017, 07:26:15 am
That may be so, but where did the prophecy come from in the first place?
A prediction of the future necessarily also predicts itself. And there is no contradiction there any more than the prediction predicting other things. The prediction being related to the asker is just another event that happened in the chain of future events, and the prediction itself doesn't make a distinction.
Also consider that if it was possible to predict e.g. 1 minute into the future, then each minute also predicts what's going to happen 1 minute after itself. So "before" and "after" become meaningless in that scenario. The entire path was already laid out before you even asked.
Post by: Mathel on September 06, 2017, 07:44:30 am
Lets say events are heading for outcome A.
Now------------------------------> A
Then a self-fuifiling prophecy comes and derails them towards outcome B.
Now----------> Prophecy -\ A
\
------------------> B
The problem with that is, that in a deterministic universe, the future can not be changed.
So, let's say that the "Now" is Durkon's inauguration.
"A" is Durkon going home and nothing happening for 20 years.
"B" is Durkon being vampirised and bringing doom.
In a deterministic universe, no matter how you tried, you would only ever predict outcome A. That is, Durkon going home and nothing happening.
The only way to be able to predict B is that it would be that it is already going to happen.
But in order to predict that, you would have to already know that you will predict that.
But where you got that information? How did you know that you were going to predict something that would not happen unless you predicted it?
Predictions independant on themselves are fine of course, because they would be true no matter what.
Post by: Reelya on September 06, 2017, 07:59:11 am
The derail because of the prophecy was an unavoidable derail, the same as any event that would have occured anyway. So if there was any "rail" that points at "outcome A" it was an illusion, since the event of receiving the prophecy was also a knowable event in the future.
Things don't change when you receive the prophecy, the prophecy itself is just another event in the pre-determined rails of fate itself.
The only thing special about the prophecy is that whatever is given to you there must be both accurate, and lead to its own conclusion.
Post by: Felissan on September 06, 2017, 08:09:27 am
Post by: Reelya on September 06, 2017, 08:12:54 am
Post by: Mathel on September 06, 2017, 08:16:32 am
But that is not what a prophecy is. Prophecy is a prediction of a future event.
There are only 2 possibilities for a self fulfilling prophecy.
1) The prophecy spell chooses a future at random and then enforces it by magic.
2) The prophecy spell searches the possible futures for one that will stay true even if it is said.
Both versions actually change the future, making them impossible.
In a deterministic universe, the current status has all future statii coded within it. But in order for a prophecy to be self-fulfilling, the event B has to be coded in at the point when the prophecy is made.
That means that the universe was not truly deterministic before the prophecy was made, because a future status of the universe was not coded within it.
The thing I keep saying is that self-fulfilling prophecies can not exist in deterministic universes. In a universe, whose future can be changed, it is no problem.
Post by: Reelya on September 06, 2017, 08:19:47 am
e.g. in a deterministic universe, given a choice of paths, it's known which one a person is going to pick.
similarly, a prophet could make any number of possible prophecies that could turn out to be true (taking themself into account), but the prophet must pick one. The prophet is constrained to pick a certain one the same as the person choosing a single path from multiple alternatives.
See? It's fundamentally no different. Given all possible prophecies, you could divide them into ones that come true and ones that don't. The prophet can only give you one prophecy from the set of "true prophecies", however their decision is constrained in the same manner as the path-taker. A path-taker also changes the future based on which path they take, however determinism means which path they take can be predicted. Equally, which prophecy the prophet gives can be predicted by the same manner, a prophecy is fundamentally no different to just choosing a path. A path-chooser and the prophet both affect the future, however their decision is locked in by determinism itself, so neither is "changing" the future.
So there is no contradiction there.
There's actually a fair bit of wisdom there. The act of trying to predict the future naturally changes the future, e.g. an oracle scrying future events affects those events, too, since the Oracle is themselves part of the system that's been scryed. You see the same thing come up in sociology, where publishing predictive polls affects the polls themselves or in quantum mechanics with the observer effects or with weird future and past stuff with particles.
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/gvy394/when-the-future-helps-determine-the-past
Post by: Mathel on September 06, 2017, 08:41:19 am
In what you wrote, the oracle has to do first decide the prophecy and then check whether it comes true.
If he first checked which prophecies come true and then chose from them, there would be no chance for self-fulfiling ones.
The difference is, that the chooser has to choose path from a certain constraints.
The oracle is apparently choosing a path, which is out of the constraints given to him, act of which expands the constraints.
Also, even non-self-fulfilling prophecies take some time. If the oracle had to predict that he will predict it, he would also have to predict that he will predict that he will predict it. But he would also have to predict that. So, a prophecy reliant on itself would take infinite time to give, because the oracle would have to do infinite levels of prediction first.
Post by: Reelya on September 06, 2017, 09:00:54 am
In fact, the prophet is more constrained than the person making up a random sentence, since the prophet must also produce a sentence which "becomes true" in the future. so they have very narrow constraints, in fact. If someone babbling a random sentence (without the constraints of being true) is constrained by determinism, then so is the prophet.
Some who babbles a purely random sentence affects the future, but they are definitely not outside determinism. The "set of possible sentences spoken by a prophet" is a subset of the "set of all possible sentences". So if the random babbler is constrained by determinism, then so must the prophet be, since what the prophet can say is merely a subset of that.
Post by: Mathel on September 06, 2017, 09:07:33 am
In fact, the prophet is more constrained than the person making up a random sentence, since the prophet must also produce a sentence which "becomes true" in the future. so they have very narrow constraints, in fact. If someone babbling a random sentence (without the constraints of being true) is constrained by determinism, then so is the prophet.
Someone speaking at random can and does affect the future. That doesn't mean they're outside the constraints of determinism. Neither is a prophet who also speaks a sentence.
The problem is, that in order to create a self-fulfilling prophecy, the prophet chooses a sentence which is not going to "become true" in the future. That is, before uttering the prophecy. After he says it, it is now going to become true.
Post by: Reelya on September 06, 2017, 09:10:30 am
What was already true was that the prophet would deliver that specific prophecy setting those specific events in motion, no different to anyone else choosing anything in a deterministic universe. There was no "before".
e.g. if an oracle scrys future visions then those visions are already taking the act of scrying into account. It's already a done deal at the time that the prophecy is made. The prophet might make a "decision" to present the information one way or another, but that decision is already taken into account by what the prophet is capable of scrying. The same as any other choice made by any human. The act of scrying doesn't discriminate between the prophet's choices and anyone else's.
Post by: Mathel on September 06, 2017, 09:18:30 am
And please stop editing your posts while I am responding to them.
Post by: Reelya on September 06, 2017, 09:25:20 am
Post by: Mathel on September 06, 2017, 09:33:21 am
If we go with OOTS, the Oracle telling Durkon he would be returning home posthumosly was such prophecy.
But I just realised that we may be using different meanings of determinism.
Look at the Wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinism)
What I mean is causal determinism, nomological specifically, which basicaly means that every event was exactly caused by previous events.
You probably mean predeterminism, which is the idea that all events are determined in advance.
Post by: hops on September 06, 2017, 09:36:48 am
There's really only two reasonable approaches when one has reason to believe there is a genuine prophecy in play.Fate, my man.
A. The prophecy will come to pass in the absolute manner in which it was intended, no matter what you do. This is immensely distressing since it suggests prophecies just tell the future and there's no free will. Anyway, there's nothing you can do about it, so just go back to your automaton life and wait for the axe to fall.
B. The prophecy is some sort of magical heuristic set that pushes on reality in order to reach any eligible end-state. Durkon goes outside for a second and triggers a landslide, Durkon spiritually "leaves home" and invokes Thor's wrath upon the whole city when he tries to repent, Durkon's vengeful soul breaks free from the phylactery you imprisoned it in a thousand years ago and exterminates the dwarfs. Something that fulfills the sense implied by the words of the prophecy.
In such a situation as B, you should probably try to game the system by moving everyone into another city and having Durkon intentionally collapse the old cavern afterwards. It might not work but it's all you've got, really.
The way I understand how free will works in DnD is that there is a certain flow of time, otherwise oracles would be out of a job. It's like trying to kill Skynet in Terminator, you can keep altering the variables and delay or even alter the prophecy, but the fates will twist events so that the prophecy will come true in some way, sooner or later, and it requires an even greater force still, one possibly beyond divine power or just being really damn lucky, to destroy a prophecy entirely.
For example, it may be foretold to you that your loved one will die in the next year. That could mean that your wife will bite the dust, or maybe you're a crafy sonuvabitch and trick a succubus into charming you on New Year's Eve and then she promptly dies. BOth way still fulfills the prophecy.
Post by: Madman198237 on September 06, 2017, 09:37:38 am
To butt in on your discussion, whether it's predetermined or "casually" determined, everything is going to happen in a set way, because the previous events that lead up to this event all happened the same way, etc.
Basically, if you take Event A, and say it affects events B and C, which both affect Event D, event D will ALWAYS happen the same unless you change event A, because B and C must remain the same.
But the only way to change A is to change the events that preceded A, but you can't, because to do that you'd have to change the events that lead to those, and so on and so on until you realize that in any universe that is close enough to the same as ours you MUST have the same trains of events, because in order to change ANYTHING you'd have to change the FIRST event, which would fundamentally change the entire universe.
Post by: hops on September 06, 2017, 09:43:45 am
Post by: Madman198237 on September 06, 2017, 09:47:55 am
This discussion, if you broaden it like that, becomes meaningless, because ultimately the kind of prophecy we're dealing with is entirely dependent on the AUTHOR, whose world this is.
It could be like Harry Potter, where the Department of Mysteries has row upon row of dusty spheres, fully of prophecies that never came true. Or it could be like Greek mythology, where the prophecy is ALWAYS true, but you may not understand it.
Or it could be "You're screwed, everybody, no matter how many times you break the fourth wall. Prophecy rules your life, and you are going to follow the prophecies."
Post by: Mathel on September 06, 2017, 09:56:15 am
As for whether the world of OOTS is or is not deterministic in any sense, well it is theologicaly deterministic by the author.
Any other world with prophecies? Depends on the world. But if you are within it, you can not know if it is deterministic or not, so it is safer to bet it is not and try to change the future, or at least make the prophecies come out in the least bad way possible.
If the prophecy will come true anyway, you may at least try to make it as not bad as possble.
Basicaly, I belive that if prophecies always came true, they would be more like Mister Metal Slime Hunter's option B
B. The prophecy is some sort of magical heuristic set that pushes on reality in order to reach any eligible end-state. Durkon goes outside for a second and triggers a landslide, Durkon spiritually "leaves home" and invokes Thor's wrath upon the whole city when he tries to repent, Durkon's vengeful soul breaks free from the phylactery you imprisoned it in a thousand years ago and exterminates the dwarfs. Something that fulfills the sense implied by the words of the prophecy.
Post by: Dozebôm Lolumzalìs on September 07, 2017, 05:49:39 am
But then what was the cause of the prophecy? Since no event can cause itself and event B was the direct result of the prophecy, it would have to have a cause in the past....not really? You could say that contradictory universes are not valid, and then out of all the possible universes, only a valid one is chosen. Closed time loops will be present within some of these universes if you choose your physics right. You have to imply the existence (or at least hypothetical/counterfactual existence) of other universes (or possible universes), but you can salvage a deterministic prophetic universe out of the mess.
But that is not what a prophecy is. Prophecy is a prediction of a future event.
There are only 2 possibilities for a self fulfilling prophecy.
1) The prophecy spell chooses a future at random and then enforces it by magic.
2) The prophecy spell searches the possible futures for one that will stay true even if it is said.
Both versions actually change the future, making them impossible.
In a deterministic universe, the current status has all future statii coded within it. But in order for a prophecy to be self-fulfilling, the event B has to be coded in at the point when the prophecy is made.
That means that the universe was not truly deterministic before the prophecy was made, because a future status of the universe was not coded within it.
The thing I keep saying is that self-fulfilling prophecies can not exist in deterministic universes. In a universe, whose future can be changed, it is no problem.
Exactly!Seems relevant. (http://lesswrong.com/lw/r1/timeless_control/)In fact, the prophet is more constrained than the person making up a random sentence, since the prophet must also produce a sentence which "becomes true" in the future. so they have very narrow constraints, in fact. If someone babbling a random sentence (without the constraints of being true) is constrained by determinism, then so is the prophet.The problem is, that in order to create a self-fulfilling prophecy, the prophet chooses a sentence which is not going to "become true" in the future. That is, before uttering the prophecy. After he says it, it is now going to become true.
Someone speaking at random can and does affect the future. That doesn't mean they're outside the constraints of determinism. Neither is a prophet who also speaks a sentence.
Quote from: Eliezer Yudkowsky
"Change" is a word that makes sense within time, and only within time. One observes a macroscopically persistent object, like, say, a lamp, and compares its state at 7:00am to its state at 7:02am. If the two states are different, then we say that "the lamp" changed over time.
In Timeless Physics, I observed that, while things can change from one time to another, a single moment of time is never observed to change:
At 7:00am, the lamp is off. At 7:01am, I flip the switch... At 7:02am, the lamp is fully bright. Between 7:00am and 7:02am, the lamp changed from OFF to ON.
But have you ever seen the future change from one time to another? Have you wandered by a lamp at exactly 7:02am, and seen that it is OFF; then, a bit later, looked in again on the "the lamp at exactly 7:02am", and discovered that it is now ON?
Post by: Mathel on September 07, 2017, 06:49:08 am
the future while skipping the past.
So I have been wrong.
Post by: scriver on September 07, 2017, 09:53:08 am
Fruitclutter Woodward
Is that what it means?
Post by: Mathel on September 07, 2017, 10:00:24 am
Post by: Reelya on September 07, 2017, 08:02:33 pm
With quantum mechanics there is time symmetry. e.g. at the molecular level there are experiments where doing something 5 minutes from now changes what readings you get 5 minutes before now, not the other way around.
Also, with relativistic time dilation, anything traveling at the speed of light experiences zero subjective time. e.g. a photon emitted at one point and absorbed at another point considers that to be the same exact time, not past and future. A classic experiment that expresses this is the photon double-slit experiment where whether there are one or two slits later, then the photon knows what path to take before. In these types of experiment, the photon seems to paradoxically "know" it's future at the moment it was emitted. That's resolved by understanding that time is relative. What is "past and future" in one point of reference is the same point in time according to another point of reference.
So the thing with prophecies, if they were at all possible, is that they don't follow classical newtonian physics common sense of cause and effect, they'd follow the weird "there is no such thing as the present" logic of quantum mechanics and relativity.
In a setting where information can flow backwards in time it makes no sense to adhere to a classical physics idea that only past causes are allowed. The prophet is only tapping into that backwards information flow, the information flow was already there, meaning the future in that setting already affects the past, so there is no contradiction. Causes can be in the future.
Post by: smjjames on September 09, 2017, 09:00:34 pm
Also, new page up (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1097.html)
Post by: Mathel on September 10, 2017, 01:19:44 am
But who is to say that a worse one would not have happened as well?
Post by: Trekkin on September 10, 2017, 02:37:55 am
Yeah. And Belkar is right. AGAIN If the prophecy was not told, this particular path of events would not have happened.
But who is to say that a worse one would not have happened as well?
Odin apologists, presumably; vague, hypothetical even worse futures are kind of one of the stock defenses of divine stupidity, and OOTS' gods are as strong an argument for ur-priests as you could want, so expect a lot of "mysterious ways" rhetoric in the epilogue.
Post by: Imic on September 10, 2017, 03:32:46 am
Post by: Reelya on September 10, 2017, 07:20:04 am
Yeah. And Belkar is right. AGAIN If the prophecy was not told, this particular path of events would not have happened.
But who is to say that a worse one would not have happened as well?
That begs the question of whether gods are outside causality however. e.g. if the future is deterministic and you know the future, you also know what actions you are going to take. This includes gods.
Post by: Mathel on September 10, 2017, 07:23:31 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on September 10, 2017, 07:24:31 am
Post by: scriver on September 10, 2017, 07:28:40 am
Considering the gods wound up surprised by Hel's ploy, I kind of doubt that the gods of the setting are omniscient. This being the case, they probably have a limited capacity to see into the future to hand out these prophecies.
I'd say that prophesies might be a very Odin thing in their pantheon, rather than a regular godly thing. He is associated with all-seeing and all that stuff after all.
Post by: Enemy post on September 12, 2017, 02:16:23 pm
Post by: Madman198237 on September 12, 2017, 02:25:36 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on September 12, 2017, 02:31:13 pm
Post by: Imic on September 16, 2017, 02:25:22 pm
I think that that last comic rekindled my faith in humanity.
Also religion, but I'm pretty faithful to that already.
Do... Do you get the joke? Faithful?
...
Damn it.
Post by: TD1 on September 16, 2017, 03:51:51 pm
Also, to what event does Belkor refer when he says "he didn't blame me"?
Post by: Lord Shonus on September 16, 2017, 03:58:07 pm
Post by: TD1 on September 16, 2017, 04:18:18 pm
That's actually quite an emotive scene.
Post by: Imic on September 16, 2017, 04:19:31 pm
Thanks.It makes a lot of sense, too.
That's actually quite an emotive scene.
I wonder how long the giant in the playground has been planning this for.
Post by: Lord Shonus on September 16, 2017, 04:21:30 pm
Post by: Akura on September 16, 2017, 05:45:13 pm
Post by: smjjames on September 16, 2017, 07:27:00 pm
I looked back at #2, and it looked very odd that Haley would pick Belkar over Elan.
It was basically a joke in reference to Elans incompetence. It just looks odd now because of his character growth since then.
Post by: Akura on September 16, 2017, 09:23:07 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on September 16, 2017, 10:34:24 pm
Belkar becoming more than the irrational slapstick psychopath was revealed in Azure City. This is good, but it's really just a callback to a previous plot-point, thanks to somewhat-more-mature-but-still-evil Belkar.Thanks.It makes a lot of sense, too.
That's actually quite an emotive scene.
I wonder how long the giant in the playground has been planning this for.
It's good to see and makes perfect sense.
Post by: Enemy post on September 18, 2017, 11:42:22 am
Post by: Akura on September 18, 2017, 12:05:06 pm
While I'm certain there's a significant chance of Minrah getting killed there, the main thing is she'll die in battle, and thus go to Thor even if Hel does win.
Post by: Zangi on September 18, 2017, 12:06:24 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on September 19, 2017, 02:32:41 am
Post by: hops on September 19, 2017, 03:23:50 am
She has a name, so that drastically increases her chance of survival. Or at least going out with a big bang.Doesn't render her immune to being incapacitated or put on a bus, tho
Post by: Akura on September 19, 2017, 04:46:45 am
She might turn into a Paladin during the battle, and be an Avatar of Thor on the mortal realm to fight this scourge. That would be cool. Then she would die.
Paladin's have some multiclass restrictions, not to mention conduct restrictions, and a multiclass 1st-level paladin/cleric/fighter probably isn't any more useful than just a multiclass cleric/fighter.
Post by: Reelya on September 22, 2017, 05:20:51 am
I can't remember the last time someone just handed me a huge pile of expensive potions before a big battle. They either make me pay for it or just give me the trash-tier crap they have in surplus. Then again, even if they did, I'd probably never use them. Even if it's the final battle.
There's a good reason for that. Making you pay for the good stuff is a money-sink, reducing adventurers spare cash and maintaining the appeal of future lucre. Also, as you admit if they gave you the good potions, you'd just stockpile them leading to ever-increasing equipment lists of over-powered loot, causing the DM to have to ever-inflate the amount of magic gear held by enemies you're fighting to try and maintain combat difficulty and believability (why should only the PCs all have magic swords?). Too much magic loot causes exponential growth in the need for more loot. The DM is smart if they know that.
Post by: Enemy post on September 25, 2017, 03:43:53 pm
Post by: smjjames on September 26, 2017, 01:23:29 am
Post by: Rolan7 on September 26, 2017, 01:50:12 am
Post by: Greiger on September 26, 2017, 03:46:27 am
P.S. OOTS probably follows more sensible rules and a single lignite pebble probably won't stay lit for a year in their universe after all.
Post by: Mathel on September 26, 2017, 03:51:59 am
Post by: Imic on September 26, 2017, 03:53:28 am
Do dwarves not have darkvision?They don't have see invisibility, though.
Post by: Akura on September 26, 2017, 05:23:03 am
Do dwarves not have darkvision?They don't have see invisibility, though.
He's questioning the existence of a dark hallway, not invisible vampires. It'd actually make sense for the most part for a dwarf-only hallway to not be lit if you have a racial ability to see in the dark. You'd save a lot in lighting costs. The temple is probably lit since worship of Thor isn't explicitly limited to dwarves, and there's the fact that darkvision doesn't allow one to see color. A nondescript hallway is fine, but a lavishly decorated temple would be a waste if you couldn't see the colors that went into it.
On the other hand, it wasn't so dark when the vampires came through(look back at #1087), so it's possible the vampires cast a Darkness spell to ambush the Order. Vampire!Durkon probably picked that trick up from Living!Durkon watching Roy and Haley ambush Tarkin with a smoke-stick arrow.
Post by: Imic on September 26, 2017, 06:03:58 am
That or they just extinguished any torches.Do dwarves not have darkvision?They don't have see invisibility, though.
He's questioning the existence of a dark hallway, not invisible vampires. It'd actually make sense for the most part for a dwarf-only hallway to not be lit if you have a racial ability to see in the dark. You'd save a lot in lighting costs. The temple is probably lit since worship of Thor isn't explicitly limited to dwarves, and there's the fact that darkvision doesn't allow one to see color. A nondescript hallway is fine, but a lavishly decorated temple would be a waste if you couldn't see the colors that went into it.
On the other hand, it wasn't so dark when the vampires came through(look back at #1087), so it's possible the vampires cast a Darkness spell to ambush the Order. Vampire!Durkon probably picked that trick up from Living!Durkon watching Roy and Haley ambush Tarkin with a smoke-stick arrow.
Post by: Reelya on September 26, 2017, 06:05:50 am
He's questioning the existence of a dark hallway, not invisible vampires. It'd actually make sense for the most part for a dwarf-only hallway to not be lit if you have a racial ability to see in the dark. You'd save a lot in lighting costs. The temple is probably lit since worship of Thor isn't explicitly limited to dwarves, and there's the fact that darkvision doesn't allow one to see color. A nondescript hallway is fine, but a lavishly decorated temple would be a waste if you couldn't see the colors that went into it.Also, there's the problem of oxygen if you're underground. Lit torches eat up oxygen, and if you're underground and you have darkvision, you shouldn't want to waste oxygen. And if you did have lighting for color reasons you'd want it to be very dim, definitely nothing like what humans would want.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 26, 2017, 06:55:55 am
Post by: Mathel on September 27, 2017, 09:13:26 am
The adventurers would just have to buy 1 and not need to expend money on torches. They would also not end up suffocating when exploring a poorly ventilated cave.
Post by: scriver on September 27, 2017, 09:32:08 am
Post by: Harry Baldman on September 27, 2017, 09:39:37 am
You know, in a world filled with magic, I would expect someone to make a business out of making magical items (like rods) of Light, and selling them to adventurers.
The adventurers would just have to buy 1 and not need to expend money on torches. They would also not end up suffocating when exploring a poorly ventilated cave.
Even better, there's a spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/continualFlame.htm) for that. Darkness is so easy to fix in D&D that in my experience most DMs just don't bother with it.
Post by: Mathel on September 27, 2017, 10:03:27 am
Edit: Though I submit that having permanent duration, the Continual Flame would be better for this, because it does not go out. The wizard could just get a lantern case and light the inside with the Continual Flame and sell it that way.
Thinking back at it, that is probably what you meant.
Post by: Reelya on September 28, 2017, 12:02:11 am
You know, in a world filled with magic, I would expect someone to make a business out of making magical items (like rods) of Light, and selling them to adventurers.
The adventurers would just have to buy 1 and not need to expend money on torches. They would also not end up suffocating when exploring a poorly ventilated cave.
The problem there is what's the cost of torches vs the cost of making the magical item? I think that's covered in the rules.
Both 5e and Pathfinder say a torch is 1 cp (http://engl393-dnd5th.wikia.com/wiki/Adventuring_Gear), whereas e.g. the spell continual flame (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Continual_Flame) needs 50 gp worth of ruby dust to be cast on the item. I doubt you could come up with another way to make a continual light that's cheaper than that.
So if you use torches, you get 5000 hours worth of illumination before you break even with the cost of a single casting of Continual Flame, and that Flame spell could be dispelled.
Post by: Lord Shonus on September 28, 2017, 12:20:18 am
If you are selling as an adventurer (at 50% price) you would be able to sell them at 55 GP, for a profit of 4.99 GP each.
Post by: Reelya on September 28, 2017, 12:24:19 am
Post by: Mathel on September 28, 2017, 12:25:27 am
Going of of the wiki (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Adventuring_Gear):
Torch burns for 1 hour and costs 1copper piece, pint of lamp oil burns for 6 hours and costs 1silver piece. To use the oil, you also have to have a lantern, which costs(based on type) 1sp, 7gp, or 12gp. The Continuous Flame costs at least 50gold pieces in ruby dust.
On the other hand, a torch weighs a pound. So does a pint of lamp oil. Lamp wighs between 1 and 3 pounds. If you expect to be underground for a week, you have to have either 168 torches, costing 1,68 gp and weighing 168 pounds, or a lantern with 28 pints of oil, the oil costing 2,8 gold and weighing 28 pounds then you have to add the lamp. Also, a pint is 0,47 liter, meaning that if you have oil, you carry 13,16 liters on oil on you. That is bulky and heavy.
I do not know how large torches are, but 168 of them would probably not fit in a backpack either.
Post by: Reelya on September 28, 2017, 12:31:30 am
If you are selling as an adventurer (at 50% price) you would be able to sell them at 55 GP, for a profit of 4.99 GP each.
This is a good point, however you'd also need to take opportunity cost into account. e.g. is there any spell at the equivalent level of difficulty that would make 5 GP+ in profit per day? Or any other activity that takes the same amount of time as memorizing/praying and casting that spell that can make 5 GP+ per day?
If there is, then basically no adventurer would be mass-producing Everlasting Torches. It would be like taking time off a well-paying job to go collect aluminium cans. Sure, you'll make more than zero profit, however you're not being optimal.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 28, 2017, 12:33:33 am
Post by: Reelya on September 28, 2017, 12:38:12 am
Post by: Mathel on September 28, 2017, 01:00:24 am
As a cleric would be able to just prepare any spell from the cleric spell list on his lever, assume that it has to be a party without a cleric. But hiring a cleric to go with them could cost them more than 55gp.
Post by: scriver on September 28, 2017, 01:10:03 am
...Speaking of classy. Can I cast Continual Flame on my dick?
Post by: Mathel on September 28, 2017, 01:23:35 am
As for your dick, no, you can not, as it is not a separate object from you. But you could cast it on yourself as a whole.
Post by: Reelya on September 28, 2017, 01:26:19 am
Post by: scriver on September 28, 2017, 01:44:43 am
Post by: Mathel on September 28, 2017, 02:09:27 am
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 28, 2017, 02:10:41 am
...if I get a tattoo. Can I cast it on the ink, which aren't technically a part of my body? Imagine a a skull tattoo with an eternal flame spell cast on it.
On your dick?
Post by: scriver on September 28, 2017, 02:15:39 am
...if I get a tattoo. Can I cast it on the ink, which aren't technically a part of my body? Imagine a a skull tattoo with an eternal flame spell cast on it.
On your dick?
On the tip.
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 28, 2017, 02:38:56 am
You could use a ridged cover alongside it...if I get a tattoo. Can I cast it on the ink, which aren't technically a part of my body? Imagine a a skull tattoo with an eternal flame spell cast on it.
On your dick?
On the tip.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: andrea on September 28, 2017, 03:03:05 am
Now, THAT was classy.
Post by: Greiger on September 28, 2017, 01:40:30 pm
The result was much cheaper basic magic items, to the point where the average joe typically had at least one enhanced item somewhere. Youh brand made everything from 'light sticks' (literally a stick with a light enchantment), cheap +1 magic weapons and armor(stronger needed a real enchantment), to magic cooking stoves, refrigerators, and even crappy (one channel) TV.
The biggest downside to the items is that they were not treated as magical when the items themselves were resisting damage, and that a simple dispel magic spell, by any level caster would remove the enchantment with no save.
Post by: Enemy post on October 04, 2017, 01:50:58 pm
Post by: Madman198237 on October 04, 2017, 02:20:05 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on October 04, 2017, 08:18:23 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on October 04, 2017, 08:18:59 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on October 04, 2017, 08:20:32 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on October 04, 2017, 08:29:29 pm
Oh actually, I forget whether Durkula had to rest before casting anything. Durkon was almost out anyway, and I'm pretty sure other rapid-turned vampires cast... right?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on October 04, 2017, 10:01:09 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on October 04, 2017, 10:12:26 pm
Here it is for reference: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm
But just off the bat (heh, unintended)
*all* HD are rerolled as d12
+6 natural armor (nearly half-plate, but stacks with real armor)
Deals 2 negative levels with each "slam attack", which heals the vampire
And other stuff (most notably, unlimited Dominate) which was well demonstrated in the comic. New vampires are their victims, with all that simply added...
It adds 8 levels to their challenge rating, and for good reason.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on October 04, 2017, 10:18:18 pm
Post by: Akura on October 05, 2017, 05:43:30 am
Not a LITERAL zombie horde. Just a loose mob of newly-made and incompetent undead.
Actually, if you're going by the literal definition of zombie(a corpse come back to life), then yes, it's a zombie horde.
It adds 8 levels to their challenge rating, and for good reason.According to d20srd.org, it's a +2 to challenge rating, and vampire spawn simply have a CR of 4.
Post by: Greiger on October 06, 2017, 06:05:43 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on October 06, 2017, 06:38:31 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on October 06, 2017, 06:39:04 pm
Post by: Akura on October 06, 2017, 08:02:25 pm
Assuming Durkon was around 17th-level when he died, he'd have a base of 4 5th-level spells. I don't know his Wisdom score, although it was probably pretty decent and being a vampire is another +2(meaning a +1 modifier, so one more spell). He'd have at least 8-9 castings of Accelerate Vamping(or whatever it's called), and there's 11 vampires visible in the last panel. Either he cast his limit, then got more from his midnight preparation, or he simply used his higher level spell slots.
Post by: Rolan7 on October 06, 2017, 08:36:53 pm
Personally I don't think Durkula took a preparation break. My theory is that the spell is AOE. Or simply that it scribed scrolls offscreen and is using those. It did have time to prepare for this.
Post by: Reelya on October 06, 2017, 10:17:11 pm
It did have time to prepare for this.
It? That's de-vampirizing. You should use their preferred pronoun, "ve". As in "ve vant to suck your blood!"
Post by: TD1 on October 06, 2017, 10:22:42 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on October 06, 2017, 10:30:13 pm
I'm both glad that my disrespectful pronoun was noted, and also rebuffed. "ve" is clearly the pronoun for disrespecting vampires.
Post by: smjjames on October 16, 2017, 04:15:14 pm
Looks like Vaarsuvius's OP'dness got themselves stuck. Hopefully he has some spells that can work outside the forcecage, or can get them out of one. Seems obvious that if you have a spell for forcecage, you'd likely have one to get out of it.
Post by: pikachu17 on October 16, 2017, 04:21:00 pm
Post by: smjjames on October 16, 2017, 04:24:11 pm
Post by: Criptfeind on October 16, 2017, 04:31:14 pm
A wizard can only dismiss Dismissible spells, which aren't all spells. But they are most spells, and that does include force cage. So yeah, should be easy to get out of.
Post by: smjjames on October 16, 2017, 04:35:38 pm
Post by: Criptfeind on October 16, 2017, 04:38:27 pm
Post by: Shinziril on October 16, 2017, 07:22:30 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on October 16, 2017, 07:31:22 pm
As for the ease of dismissing the force cage, might have just been a... forced gag (;
IIRC it also takes an action, technically, though my group always treated it as a free action interrupt. I once had an ogre grab my Spiritual Weapon (a semi-autonomous weapon of force energy) and wield it. I actually let it do so, then dismissed the spell right before getting hit (and probably dying) to tie up the dumb ogre's time.
Post by: hops on October 16, 2017, 08:11:04 pm
Post by: pikachu17 on October 18, 2017, 12:54:22 pm
Anyway I think this is for one of two reasons, comedy, or drama. Comedy, because they are stuck there, and Drama, There will be even less time to save the world. If the reason is comedy, V might remember s/he can dismiss the spell. When s/he remembers, is less certain.
Post by: scriver on October 18, 2017, 01:03:34 pm
Post by: Akura on October 18, 2017, 04:30:21 pm
When s/he remembers, is less certain.
Alternately, they can waste a Disintegrate spell to remove it before remembering it can just be dismissed.
Also, was that vampire that drained Vaarsuvius destroyed, or did it simply turn to mist and is still stuck in the forcecage?
I wonder how things like these that happen after they arrive affect the airship's drama-based engine.They've already arrived "in the nick of time". That's why the ship is hovering overhead. And it's probably going to stay that way unless they have to make a gunship rescue, which would be a little hard to pull off since they're underground and the Mechane just jettisoned its weapons.
Post by: Rolan7 on October 26, 2017, 04:48:22 pm
Post by: TD1 on October 26, 2017, 04:51:35 pm
Post by: pikachu17 on October 26, 2017, 04:55:16 pm
@Th4DwArfY1: With Force Cage, the spell description doesn't state how much air there is in it, so it is up to debate.
Post by: Egan_BW on October 26, 2017, 04:57:42 pm
Post by: TD1 on October 26, 2017, 04:59:18 pm
Also, was that vampire that drained Vaarsuvius destroyed, or did it simply turn to mist and is still stuck in the forcecage?Well, given the Vampire exhibited the eyes usually associated with death (unless acting is involved, which I doubt) and Roy pulled out the Big damage dealing Green Guns, and the Sword probably went through the Vampire's heart.... I'd say it's dead.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on October 26, 2017, 05:00:35 pm
Post by: Criptfeind on October 26, 2017, 05:06:28 pm
Post by: pikachu17 on October 26, 2017, 05:08:35 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on October 26, 2017, 05:18:31 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on October 26, 2017, 05:20:36 pm
I've linked to basically the end of the thread because it's by far the best part. Though the post is about resilient sphere... A force cage definitely will suffocate the people inside, unless the air is magically replenished or selectively allowed in (I don't the argument was conclusive, so GM call IMO).
Yeah, this still seems like a non issue. Most of the vampires are probably trivial spawn, the heroes have whatever set up time they need, sure Elfboy can't come out blasting but he can set up whatever other spells will be useful and if the heroes can't beat this group of vampires readied actions with their own readied actions they're probably hopeless anyway.Ehh, the vampire spawn template is pretty heavy. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm (scroll down to spawn)
The dominate is only 5th level instead of 12th, but there are a lot of them. I'm pretty sure Durkula's a spawn, and it was able to dominate Belkar with apparent ease. Belkar obviously has low WIS for will saves, but is Elan that much better? Or V, who sold their soul?
Besides that, such a large group of vampires is very dangerous in melee. If they hit, they deal negative levels without save. If they grapple and pin they start doing CON damage every round, and large groups are exponentially good at maintaining grapples. Think like a zombie apocalypse.
Their HD also switched to D12 (I think) and they definitely heal 2 damage every round, so the wounded can fall back to recover. There are lots of them.
If Varsuvius was killed, wouldn't the force cage be dropped anyway?It doesn't require concentration, so I'm almost positive the answer is no. Particularly since the comic says V needs to manually dismiss it.
Post by: Criptfeind on October 26, 2017, 07:44:14 pm
Post by: Akura on October 26, 2017, 07:59:56 pm
He did apparently one-shot the vampire that he killed, since it showed no other damage from Minrah's hammer and it's not apparent if her attack caused it to break grapple with V. Vampires have damage reduction 10/silver, spawn have 5/silver.
Post by: smjjames on October 26, 2017, 08:01:48 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on October 26, 2017, 08:05:36 pm
I'm not really sure where this is going, though. V is specifically negated for a round, so won't be carrying the battle. Belkar's potentially a liability, as are all the NPCs. I don't think this is leading towards a straight battle. I think the party is going to have to run.
They might literally just run... The only other thing I can think of, since V lacks teleport, is an "exit" I often provided for my group in an old campaign: Plane Shift. It's level 5, but one of the NPCs might have a scroll (or even be level 9, maaaybe). It's an escape (from what I maintain is an impossible fight), it's a sub-adventure, and it justifies the existence of these NPC clerics.
Post by: smjjames on October 26, 2017, 08:16:13 pm
Yeah, I think Roy is safe from domination by being so well-rounded... Even though, mechanically, having high WIS for a fighter shouldn't save him. Narratively, I think we just saw the "domination" card get played, and it's going to be a fight from here out (possibly with Belkar getting dominated again, but hopefully a scene where he fights it off by remembering Durkon's death).
I'm not really sure where this is going, though. V is specifically negated for a round, so won't be carrying the battle. Belkar's potentially a liability, as are all the NPCs. I don't think this is leading towards a straight battle. I think the party is going to have to run.
They might literally just run... The only other thing I can think of, since V lacks teleport, is an "exit" I often provided for my group in an old campaign: Plane Shift. It's level 5, but one of the NPCs might have a scroll (or even be level 9, maaaybe). It's an escape (from what I maintain is an impossible fight), it's a sub-adventure, and it justifies the existence of these NPC clerics.
There's only one non-vampire NPC there in the force cage.
edit: There is the cat and the raven, but still, they wouldn't exactly be a threat to the vampires.
Post by: Rolan7 on October 26, 2017, 08:22:31 pm
Post by: Criptfeind on October 26, 2017, 08:29:33 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on October 26, 2017, 08:40:57 pm
AoO-wise, I wouldn't be surprised if Roy has combat reflexes, but I doubt anyone else does. Even if they do, I don't think most of them can one-hit these spawn (except Belkar due to favored enemy, and even that's narrative power rather than crunch).
It is a little odd that the other clerics didn't come with... Their spontaneous positive energy would have been helpful against, you know, undead. They'd only have to hit touch AC. But, narrative constraints, and it wouldn't have turned this battle IMO.
Post by: Lord Shonus on October 26, 2017, 09:01:38 pm
Anything of 5 HD or higher that is killed by constitution drain (from the bite) instead of energy drain (from the slam attack) rises as a full vampire, not a spawn.
The dominate is only 5th level instead of 12th, but there are a lot of them. I'm pretty sure Durkula's a spawn, and it was able to dominate Belkar with apparent ease.
Durkula's a full vampire.
Quote
Blood Drain (Ex)
A vampire can suck blood from a living victim with its fangs by making a successful grapple check. If it pins the foe, it drains blood, dealing 1d4 points of Constitution drain each round the pin is maintained. On each such successful attack, the vampire gains 5 temporary hit points.
-snip-
Create Spawn (Su)
A humanoid or monstrous humanoid slain by a vampire’s energy drain rises as a vampire spawn 1d4 days after burial.
If the vampire instead drains the victim’s Constitution to 0 or lower, the victim returns as a spawn if it had 4 or less HD and as a vampire if it had 5 or more HD. In either case, the new vampire or spawn is under the command of the vampire that created it and remains enslaved until its master’s destruction. At any given time a vampire may have enslaved spawn totaling no more than twice its own Hit Dice; any spawn it creates that would exceed this limit are created as free-willed vampires or vampire spawn. A vampire that is enslaved may create and enslave spawn of its own, so a master vampire can control a number of lesser vampires in this fashion. A vampire may voluntarily free an enslaved spawn in order to enslave a new spawn, but once freed, a vampire or vampire spawn cannot be enslaved again.
Post by: Rolan7 on October 26, 2017, 09:06:27 pm
That does mean that, narratively, these spawn will be less likely to dominate Belkar.
Post by: smjjames on October 26, 2017, 09:12:00 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on October 26, 2017, 09:16:05 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on October 26, 2017, 09:17:36 pm
Doesn't he have that trinket he bought in Gnomeville that is supposed to protect against being dominated?Did he...? He tried to buy one of Protection From Evil, and it burned him (a houserule)... But I can't remember what happened, didn't he get a "faulty" one? Which might work like you're saying?
The weird but very specific thing against Protection From Alignment spells is that they block *all* possession...:
Quote from: [url=http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/protectionFromEvil.htm
SRD[/url]]Second, the barrier blocks any attempt to possess the warded creature (by a magic jar attack, for example) or to exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment (charm) effects and enchantment (compulsion) effects that grant the caster ongoing control over the subject, such as dominate person). The protection does not prevent such effects from targeting the protected creature, but it suppresses the effect for the duration of the protection from evil effect. If the protection from evil effect ends before the effect granting mental control does, the would-be controller would then be able to mentally command the controlled creature. Likewise, the barrier keeps out a possessing life force but does not expel one if it is in place before the spell is cast. This second effect works regardless of alignment.
Post by: Lord Shonus on October 26, 2017, 09:19:23 pm
Hmm. Does the wording of that imply that the vampire can raise someone they killed by ANY method of draining Con? There's no specific reference to the bite attack.
You really must not be familiar with 3.5 D&D. That sort of shoddy wording is endemic in the system, which is where we get the idea of healing somebody by drowning them.
@Rolan
He did buy the Protection From Evil clasp. He got a discount on it by claiming that it was faulty (to dodge questions about his alignment).
Post by: Akura on October 27, 2017, 04:50:26 am
which is where we get the idea of healing somebody by drowning them.
Is that the part because the first round they are drowning their HP is set to 0(unconscious), without any mention of what happens if they were already dying(<0)?
Maybe it's a baptism of sorts.
Post by: TD1 on October 27, 2017, 06:09:38 am
He is displeased with a beloved character's imminent death!
Baptise to save!
Post by: Sergius on October 27, 2017, 10:00:30 am
If we're going by any kind of rules such as probability and rolling d20s and stuff, there's no way to just win this by fair combat... even if everyone's AC was thru the roof and a roll of 16 on the die would be needed to hit any of them, that still means 5 of every 20 attacks will hit, and they drain levels which make you fight worse which will just keep making you easier to hit/kill.
At-will saving throws have the same problem, except they're probably more save or suck than even being level drained (although Charms would only make you friendly towards ONE specific vampire, and let you keep hitting all the others, but then he just needs to ask you to let him hug you)
Nah, there needs to be some deus ex machina that saves them, or more clever use of AoA spells or something, maybe escape by burrowing thru the floor. Super-Duper-Daylight and stuff like that, which I'm not sure they have.
Post by: Madman198237 on October 27, 2017, 10:05:47 am
Post by: smjjames on October 27, 2017, 10:06:23 am
Post by: Sergius on October 27, 2017, 10:25:43 am
Even if you could, it's enclosed on all 6 sides so you're also standing on its floor.
Post by: Madman198237 on October 27, 2017, 10:27:32 am
Post by: Criptfeind on October 27, 2017, 10:53:23 am
If we're going by some sort of cinematic battle rules, then sure this could end like some epic mini battle and kill a lot of "low level" vampires.
If we're going by any kind of rules such as probability and rolling d20s and stuff, there's no way to just win this by fair combat... even if everyone's AC was thru the roof and a roll of 16 on the die would be needed to hit any of them, that still means 5 of every 20 attacks will hit, and they drain levels which make you fight worse which will just keep making you easier to hit/kill.
21 ac isn't though the roof for a level 16 character, especially a fighter.
But the bigger issue here is the vampires need time for this to be true. Sure, maybe if Roy stood in the middle of them killing them one by one as they made 8 attacks per round on him they'd manage to get a good number of hits in. But the vamps are in a narrow corridor that like like they can get maybe 3-4 in range on either side per round. That's 1-2 vamp attacks per hero. And V can kill somewhere between all and most the vampires on his next turn, roy can probably kill a very good number as well. The vampires simply don't have time to nicely line up their statistics against the heroes, eek in a small percentage, and win over a long period of time.
Post by: Rolan7 on October 27, 2017, 11:11:10 am
Roy could maybe survive this, yeah, since he's a melee fighter with an anti-undead weapon. Everyone else is at a heavy disadvantage - even the wizard is surrounded by melee threats, and can't even begin casting for a round. Which is plenty of time for the vampires to grapple and/or drain *even more* levels, basically neutralizing V.
Haley, Elan, and the NPC are just SOL. I mean, they're currently all keeping their eyes closed to avoid mind-control :P
I'm still betting on Plane Shift, heh.
Post by: Criptfeind on October 27, 2017, 11:20:49 am
V can just float over about 5 feet to be in the middle of everyone, and thus be out of danger. Elan should be fine against the mind control. Haley is a bit dicier, but there's plenty of magic items that would help you'd expect a level 16 rogue to have.
Outside of plot needs (which I admit could totally be a thing). They just aren't threatened by a pack of enemies with cr 1/4 their level.
Post by: smjjames on October 27, 2017, 11:31:45 am
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on October 27, 2017, 11:38:17 am
Post by: smjjames on October 27, 2017, 11:43:00 am
Post by: Trekkin on October 27, 2017, 11:45:03 am
Maybe they do need some sort of deus ex machina, it's definetly setting up the stage for something.
And then the Mechane bursts through the wall, having been retrofit for subterrene travel offscreen.
Post by: Criptfeind on October 27, 2017, 11:46:27 am
Does anyone remember when they fought frost giants? Roy, Haley, and Belkar (Belkar especially, but Roy was fighting upgraded enemies and still doing well.) was dodging hits from enemies that completely outclass these vampires. Their damage output was pretty high as well.
It's the vampires that need a deus ex machina.
Post by: pikachu17 on October 27, 2017, 01:18:43 pm
I forget, did the NPC tell us his/her name?
Post by: smjjames on October 27, 2017, 01:34:28 pm
Post by: Criptfeind on October 27, 2017, 01:44:26 pm
They can be cured in a lot of various ways, but if you fail to cure them within 24 hours you have to make a fort save, either way the negative level goes away, but if you fail the fort save then you loose an actual level.
Also if you get more negative levels then you have real levels you ded. Like so ded.
Post by: Rolan7 on October 27, 2017, 01:46:23 pm
Post by: smjjames on October 27, 2017, 02:03:12 pm
So dead you usually turn undead! Depends on how you got them.
I guess that's how wights (seen much earlier when Xykon was messing around in the remains of Azure city) work as far as turning undead.
Post by: Mathel on October 27, 2017, 02:42:49 pm
I think, for purposes of drama, the heroes will survive this, but be heavily level drained. Or, for purposes of funny, they easily kill the vampire spawn, and ask "Why were we worrying about this?".
I forget, did the NPC tell us his/her name?
She did not.
But on strip 1094, Tinna told the Order her name. The name of the NPC with the order is Minrah. She is also adressed as such by one of the vampires in the most recent strip (1103).
Post by: smjjames on October 27, 2017, 02:46:52 pm
I think, for purposes of drama, the heroes will survive this, but be heavily level drained. Or, for purposes of funny, they easily kill the vampire spawn, and ask "Why were we worrying about this?".
I forget, did the NPC tell us his/her name?
She did not.
But on strip 1094, Tinna told the Order her name. The name of the NPC with the order is Minrah. She is also adressed as such by one of the vampires in the most recent strip (1103).
And Roy addresses her by name in strip 1099.
Post by: Culise on October 27, 2017, 03:14:22 pm
Yep; if you run out of levels as a consequence of level drain, you die instantly: do not pass Go, do not roll saves. Depending on how you lose the levels, you either get raised as the monster that killed you or if no monster is specified, a wight. Though we're in the OOTS thread rather than the D&D thread, there's a really fun, albeit somewhat-questionable rules exploit around this as well: the Locate City Wight bomb, which is a variant of a standard Locate City bomb and a good way of causing a zombie apocalypse.So dead you usually turn undead! Depends on how you got them.
I guess that's how wights (seen much earlier when Xykon was messing around in the remains of Azure city) work as far as turning undead.
Post by: pikachu17 on October 27, 2017, 03:28:10 pm
Post by: Dorsidwarf on October 27, 2017, 03:29:08 pm
Post by: Culise on October 27, 2017, 03:53:11 pm
But, doesn't Locate City target the city, not the people in it?It's a rather unfortunately-worded spell. It doesn't actually target anything: it's an area effect spell that covers a circle (not a sphere) centered on the caster with radius of 10 miles per caster level, in addition to its range. This combines with splatbook metamagic for serious shenanigans:
1. Apply Snowcasting (Frostburn, pg 50) to give it the Cold modifier.
2. With the Cold modifier, apply Flash Frost (PHB2, pg 91) so that it now deals 2 damage to all creatures in the area of effect and makes the area slippery
3. Due to having an energy descriptor from Step 1, the application of Energy Substitution (Electricity) (Complete Arcane, pg 79) now makes it deal Electricity damage.
4. The Born of Three Thunders (Complete Arcane, pg 76) converts half of that Electricity damage to Sonic damage, but also allows creatures affected a reflex save, which allows the entire reason for this roundabout method...
5. Explosive Spell (Complete Arcane, pg 79). The spell now shunts all creatures that fail their reflex save outside of the area of effect...in other words, it throws them tens of miles in a single round. Hilariously, Explosive Spell means that any creature moved this way takes 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet moved, and for those metric-folks, there are 5280 feet in a mile. Someone who moves one mile takes 528d6+1(Elec)+1(Sonic) damage. Someone who's right next to the caster will be a fine paste. If you hit something between your starting point and the edge of the spell, that's another 1d6 damage.
It is suggested that the caster tether themselves to something sturdy before casting in case they fail their own Reflex save.
Primary cuts against this are either to rule that the circle effect of Locate City doesn't actually follow the surface of the plane you're on (with the side effect that Locate City no longer locates cities), that you can't stack metamagic effects that way (lopping this off at Step 2, typically, since unfortunately Snowcasting explicitly allows Cold-based metamagic to be applied), that you can't apply damage to a spell that does not already cause some sort of damage (handily also cutting the caster off from dealing damage to the inhabitants of small countries), or more amusingly, to rule that it works precisely as written...only it simply punts everyone in range up an inch because a Locate Spell acts on a circle and not a sphere or cylinder, and the shortest distance to its edge of effect is thus along its nonexistent third dimension. A good way to give everyone in miles a kick in the rear and cause pratfalls, but not much else.
The counter to this last ruling was to replace steps 3-5 with Fell Drain (Libris Mortis, pg 27): one negative level to all living foes that take damage from your spell. This causes every 1HD commoner in tens of miles that fails their saves to drop dead and, 24 hours later, revive as a wight. Since wights create more wights by killing more people, hilarity ensues.
EDIT: Added splatbook sources and the actual damage potential this bomb has. For the curious, Locate City is itself located in Races of Destiny, pg 166, and is a Level 1 spell.
I think the OOTS are worried about being stuck with a bunch of negative levels when they encounter the very dangerous high-level vampire clerics who may have mind-controlled large numbers of very important Good dwarves?That's personally my guess as well. Durkon and company will presumably be a difficult fight for them as they are right now. Stack on 3-6 negative levels per person on top of that, and the Order is going to be looking at a much nastier fight.
Post by: Lord Shonus on October 27, 2017, 05:00:44 pm
which is where we get the idea of healing somebody by drowning them.
Is that the part because the first round they are drowning their HP is set to 0(unconscious), without any mention of what happens if they were already dying(<0)?
That's the one. It is the iconic example of poor editing in 3.5e D&D, because the disconnect between RAI and RAW is so blindingly obvious, while stuff like Locate City Bomb and Pun-Pun are clearly wrong, but it is difficult to explain how.
Post by: Akura on October 27, 2017, 05:58:08 pm
As I said before, winning this encounter will likely come from Roy's Great Cleave feat. Calculations as follows:
The average spawn has 29HP(formula is 4d12+3). Roy has a BAB of +16(assuming 16th-level Fighter), and we can assume(or not assume (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0297.html)) that his Greatsword(2d6 base damage) is a +5 magic weapon even without the green fire effect. Here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0951.html), Roy effortlessly held down a rope two people struggled with, suggesting a Strength score of at least 16(+3 modifier). His total attack bonus is therefore +24, without any further buffs like the green fire or Elan's singing. Almost none of the spawn appear to be wearing proper armor, so their natural AC of 15 is used. Roy has a 55% chance to hit on his first strike, without buffs.
Now, damage. The Greenhilt Sword, again without the greenfire, has a damage of 2d6+5. Add +5 from Strength(+3 times 1.5x, rounded up, because it's two-handed). Vampire spawns have damage reduction 5/silver, which applies since the sword is starmetal, not silver. Damage range is 7-17. Roy has Power Attack, so he can shunt some his attack roll bonus into damage if need be. Now, add buffs. Elan can sing to Inspire Courage, providing(at his level) a +3 to both attack and damage to everyone in the party, while also adding a +3 resistance to the domination gazes. I don't know if bard songs stack(probably not), but Inspire Greatness would give one person +2HD, and a +2 to attack rolls. Possible cheap buffs V could cast are Enlarge Person(bigger range, bigger weapon), Bull's Strength(+4 Strength), and Haste. Minrah might have access to Prayer. With just Elan alone(since his capabilities are known), Roy's first attack would be +27(70% to hit) and 10-20 damage.
As for the green fire, I'm going to guess that it's 3d8 fire damage, doubled for undead(6d8 for these spawn). Damage range is therefore 13-65, without Elan, 16-68 with Inspire Courage. That carries a very good chance of one-shot destroying a vampire spawn in a single hit - and this will trigger Great Cleave, allowing another attack on another spawn. If that destroys the next target, it triggers again, and so on. As far as I can tell, each attack roll in a full attack can be used for a Great Cleave(it falls under "poorly worded"), so even if Roy fails to destroy one with an attack, he can make four total attacks. The solution is to simply let him get surrounded. Even attacks of opportunity will cause casualties.
...I spent too much time researching this post.
Post by: Rolan7 on October 27, 2017, 06:33:09 pm
The character rolling to save still adds their WIS mod, since it's a will save.
I almost erroneously nitpicked the damage reduction, but you're correct. It's just a little weird: Full vampires have 10 DR silver AND magic, which means the weapon must be both silver and magic. Vampire spawn have weaker DR which is overcome by mundane silver.
Post by: Criptfeind on October 27, 2017, 06:41:21 pm
Note that it's a Charisma-based save, so Elan and Haley should be good to resist
This means it's based off the vampires Charisma, it doesn't interact with the targets charisma (well, unless they have something like the paladin ability that adds your charisma to your saves) (Ninjaed by Rolan)
As I said before, winning this encounter will likely come from Roy's Great Cleave feat.
I disagree. Roy can contribute and very well, but winning the encounter comes from surviving a single round, followed by V killing them all with some spell.
I also think you're probably underselling various sundry magical buffs and such a level 16 fighter is likely to have, although we don't have complete information on that except he has a belt of giants strength of unspecified bonus so sorta fair enough. Although I bet the green fire is some sorta bane of undead, which is likely to add +to hit as well as plus damage.
Post by: DAPARROT on October 27, 2017, 07:15:26 pm
Spoiler: big quote (click to show/hide)
Post by: Akura on October 27, 2017, 09:19:45 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on October 27, 2017, 09:23:07 pm
Post by: Dorsidwarf on October 27, 2017, 09:38:10 pm
The unmodified hit chance for Roy to hit a vampire spawn based on the presumed stats is 55% because Roy needs to roll a minimum of 9. Roy's total attack bonus, +24 minus the SRD-listed natural AC of vampire spawn(15AC) is 9. Since you always deal with 1/20ths(because you're using a 20-sided die), every increment is 5%. Since there are 11 possible rolls(20-9) that result in a success, the success chance is 55%, and every point of increase to Roy's attack roll bonus is another 5%. Inspire Courage adds +3, so that's +15% added(55+15=70).
what? Since when do you have to roll higher than (your attack bonus - target AC)?!
Post by: Lord Shonus on October 27, 2017, 10:36:04 pm
The unmodified hit chance for Roy to hit a vampire spawn based on the presumed stats is 55% because Roy needs to roll a minimum of 9. Roy's total attack bonus, +24 minus the SRD-listed natural AC of vampire spawn(15AC) is 9. Since you always deal with 1/20ths(because you're using a 20-sided die), every increment is 5%. Since there are 11 possible rolls(20-9) that result in a success, the success chance is 55%, and every point of increase to Roy's attack roll bonus is another 5%. Inspire Courage adds +3, so that's +15% added(55+15=70).
This is wrong. D&D 3.5 is a very simple system. If 1d20+Bonus > AC, the target hits. By your reckoning, Roy rolls 1d20+24 to hit.
If Roy has +24 to hit, and the spawn have 15 AC, then he would hit on a -9 or higher. If your numbers are accurate (Roy's to-hit seems a bit low, since we know he has a +5 weapon and probably has a BAB of around 16), he would only ever miss on a natural 1. This gives him a 95% chance to hit, which does not go down unless you give the vampire spawn +11 in stackable AC bonuses.
Post by: Arcvasti on October 27, 2017, 11:21:25 pm
Post by: Akura on October 28, 2017, 04:33:54 am
The point still stands though, that Roy is quite capable of wrecking any one of those vampire spawn in one hit, which because of his feats means he can wreck most of the whole group in one hit.
Post by: Mathel on October 28, 2017, 06:45:20 am
Post by: scriver on October 28, 2017, 09:11:41 am
Also, theory about ending: Kitty takes on Eldritch Evil Yarn Ball and wins the day.
Post by: pikachu17 on October 30, 2017, 02:31:21 pm
Lord Murderkitten for the win!
Post by: Helgoland on October 30, 2017, 04:07:49 pm
Post by: Eschar on October 30, 2017, 04:23:32 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on October 30, 2017, 04:35:43 pm
Post by: Harry Baldman on October 30, 2017, 04:50:03 pm
Belkar said that Haley's aphasia was "good new for fans of cryptograms." Is he just noting that her words are incomprehensible, or...has anyone tried running them through frequency analysis yet?
They're a simple substitution cipher, the exact substitution changes between strips but it's easy to just find the "you"s and "the"s and extrapolate from there. You still have to do it each time, but it's kinda fun once you get into the groove.
Post by: Reelya on October 31, 2017, 11:53:31 am
They've all been translated. Here (http://www.nathanedwardwilliams.com/fun/orderofthestick01.htm)'s one rendition, which is probably easier than the forum threads on the subject (Rich does NOT like people editing his art, so those are just a "In panel 1 she says this, in panel 2 she says this" format).
Do you know the only cooler thing that Rich could have done there? Instead of random ciphers he could have coded a message into that itself.
Post by: TD1 on October 31, 2017, 12:05:53 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on October 31, 2017, 01:05:06 pm
Post by: TD1 on October 31, 2017, 01:05:30 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 03, 2017, 04:18:42 pm
I almost want this to happen in my group, some time. We're usually pretty good about it, but when things get desperate...
Post by: Mathel on November 03, 2017, 04:51:59 pm
That ruins the idea I had about V just flying high, so that any vampire wanting to attack him would have to go to bat form.
Post by: Akura on November 03, 2017, 05:05:51 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 03, 2017, 06:22:39 pm
Enemies never hear us though, hehe. Yet.
(Sometimes NPCs ask what we're whispering about)
Post by: Akura on November 04, 2017, 05:13:41 pm
Lube up everyone but Roy and V and position them so they intercept anything going for V - because their master ordered them to, they will go for V. Greasing someone adds +10 to avoid/escape grapples. That should keep pressure off Vaarsuvius for at least one round so s/he can start casting again. If necessary, everyone should take defensive actions to avoid getting hit by the vampires' slams and avoiding level drains. Otherwise, everyone but Roy or V should focus their attacks on Sandstone - I suspect he's a full vampire and not merely a spawn. Roy or V should focus on clearing the spawns out to avoid getting mobbed.
Post by: Lord Shonus on November 04, 2017, 05:25:58 pm
Post by: smjjames on November 04, 2017, 07:52:42 pm
It’s a possible outlet for a deus ex machina or something.
Post by: scriver on November 04, 2017, 08:10:03 pm
Post by: smjjames on November 04, 2017, 08:21:13 pm
Sure, emptying out your Bag of Holding sounds like a great idea until you discover you're now trapped in a force cage with the 500 different kinds of sharp and pointy objects you kept in there.
You know I don’t literally mean empty your bag of holding. :P
Post by: Akura on November 04, 2017, 08:50:24 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 04, 2017, 08:52:40 pm
Post by: Culise on November 04, 2017, 09:10:02 pm
I've never seen any way of fucking with a bag of holding that didn't end up backfiring on the person doing it.Well, it's beyond the scope of our force cage, but there's always the idea of the "Davy Crockett" arrow rigged with a bag of holding and a portable hole. As long as you can shoot it more than ten feet away and reach a level where you can afford to blow 22.5k gp on a single shot, at least...
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 04, 2017, 09:25:43 pm
Post by: Culise on November 04, 2017, 09:28:24 pm
I like how your response was the most backfire-prone application of a bag of holding possible without consciously using it as a suicide weapon.:P
Post by: Mathel on November 05, 2017, 02:26:12 am
Post by: TD1 on November 05, 2017, 11:15:06 am
Post by: smjjames on November 05, 2017, 11:56:53 am
Thoughtwhiletyping: is there some sort of spell that allows telepathic communication (or some other covert method of communicating) since the GM has pulled the 'the monsters can hear everything you're saying' card on the players. V is probably the wrong class for the telepathic stuff and Haley certainly has her methods of covert communication.
Post by: Akura on November 05, 2017, 12:26:02 pm
How about Hide from Undead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/hideFromUndead.htm)? Minrah can conceivably cast it. Granted, it might not be perfect since they're surrounded, and it ends for everyone if anyone touches an undead.
Post by: Lord Shonus on November 05, 2017, 12:51:29 pm
Post by: smjjames on November 05, 2017, 02:28:33 pm
Not sure how Mind Blank effects telepathic communication. One of those "poorly worded, oh god we're letting the GM rules-lawyer it?!" things.
How about Hide from Undead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/hideFromUndead.htm)? Minrah can conceivably cast it. Granted, it might not be perfect since they're surrounded, and it ends for everyone if anyone touches an undead.
Seems more useful as an escape method rather than in a fight, though it could conceivably be used to set up an ambush..... Or perhaps to keep the vampires from being able to listen to them plan things out.
Post by: Akura on November 06, 2017, 05:27:20 pm
Maybe they can repeat that trick with the Silicon Elemental - neither Durkon or the vampire controlling him witnessed that tactic.
Post by: Lord Shonus on November 06, 2017, 05:51:03 pm
If we ignore this, or find a way to reconcile the observed behavior and assume that "enslaved vampires" operated as per Dominate Person, this problem would still be easily avoided. Durkula would be aware that the vampires are in combat, and be able to dip into a thrall's mind to observe the action once every round. He could also change the orders by remote control.
Post by: smjjames on November 06, 2017, 06:03:14 pm
Durkula told them to take out V first because he knew V is dangerous enough (and probably wouldn't have had to take a memory dive to recognize that) to warrant targeting first at all costs.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 06, 2017, 06:03:58 pm
As pointed out, even vampire spawn are far more intelligent than an elemental.
Post by: thvaz on November 13, 2017, 04:16:25 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 13, 2017, 04:22:19 pm
Post by: crazyabe on November 13, 2017, 04:25:43 pm
Post by: smjjames on November 13, 2017, 04:28:19 pm
Today's comic made me wonder if it had a reference to dwarf fortress.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Yeah, that's gotta be a reference to DF....
I think the comic has made some other more subtle references to DF before though.
Post by: scriver on November 13, 2017, 04:31:57 pm
Post by: MorleyDev on November 13, 2017, 04:35:44 pm
Post by: Akura on November 13, 2017, 05:52:22 pm
I knew that loose end wasn't going to stay loose, but...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: TD1 on November 13, 2017, 05:56:26 pm
Post by: Akura on November 13, 2017, 05:59:49 pm
How long has Durky been exiled for? That baby doesn't look too old.
Spoiler: Very beginning of the comic (click to show/hide)
Post by: TD1 on November 13, 2017, 06:06:36 pm
Post by: Enemy post on November 13, 2017, 07:28:30 pm
Wow, did not see that coming. I think this one gives 8-bit Theatre a run for it's money with longest set-up ever...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Dorsidwarf on November 13, 2017, 07:46:43 pm
I expect her help won't be as easy as all that, and I strongly foresee a refusal to cast Resurrection in the future.
Post by: smjjames on November 13, 2017, 08:18:36 pm
Post by: Dorsidwarf on November 13, 2017, 08:22:09 pm
They could ask someone else for the resurrection thing. They could also wait months until the body is a pile of bones, which they did while separated from each other.Yeah but this bishbash with durkula over the end of the world isn't the end of the matter. Obviously it makes a big difference if they can just resurrect their high level cleric right away, letting them immediately go back to rushing to catch up to Xykon before he picks the right door.
Post by: pikachu17 on November 13, 2017, 08:33:12 pm
Post by: Akura on November 13, 2017, 08:38:26 pm
Wow, did not see that coming. I think this one gives 8-bit Theatre a run for it's money with longest set-up ever...Spoiler (click to show/hide)
To be fair, the 8-bit Theatre one was a Brick Joke (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BrickJoke) with an actual setup line("Four White Mages? It'll never work!"). There wasn't anything to suggest Hilgya would reappear other than the author's habit of brick-joking even the most obscure bits.
How would they resurrect Durkon? He turns to ash upon death, and I am not sure whether Ressurection can work on an unwilling vampire.
Presumably the vampire spirit is destroyed when the body is reduced to 0HP, freeing Durkon's soul(which is the one that chooses to resurrect or not). Resurrection can work on ashes, if I remember correctly. It's Raise Dead that needs a mostly intact corpse, while True Resurrection(which the author hates) just requires you to be able to positively identify them by name.
Post by: smjjames on November 13, 2017, 08:41:31 pm
How would they resurrect Durkon? He turns to ash upon death, and I am not sure whether Ressurection can work on an unwilling vampire.
In theory, resurrection can still work on atomized residue. At least that's what Will Save World for Gold did http://willsaveworldforgold.com/?p=2390 It just depends on how Rich Burlew decides to houserule it.
Edit: Ninja'd, it depends on how the author decides to play it.
Post by: Lord Shonus on November 13, 2017, 08:44:52 pm
Post by: smjjames on November 13, 2017, 08:48:39 pm
Post by: pikachu17 on November 13, 2017, 08:50:11 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on November 13, 2017, 08:50:57 pm
I think all of Durkon's prophecies at this point are fully fulfilled, and what happens next will be decided by fate.
Post by: pikachu17 on November 13, 2017, 08:52:36 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on November 13, 2017, 08:53:58 pm
Post by: smjjames on November 13, 2017, 08:55:45 pm
But he wasn't in a coffin when he returned...
Exactly. Unless one wants to say that any wood construct is a coffin. Then again, why would a dwarf want a wooden coffin.
Post by: smjjames on November 13, 2017, 08:57:10 pm
That part wasn't shown, so he might well have.
Didn't he portal right to dwarven lands from the Godsmoot?
Post by: Enemy post on November 13, 2017, 09:02:11 pm
Post by: Helgoland on November 13, 2017, 10:34:37 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on November 13, 2017, 10:52:23 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 13, 2017, 10:56:45 pm
Ninja'd sorta heh
Post by: Murphy on November 14, 2017, 08:40:54 am
Post by: Mathel on November 15, 2017, 11:06:07 am
Doesn't post-humous mean 'after burial'? :p
Maybe the author did not plan to rapid-vampirise him, when the prophecy was made. Normaly the victim becomes a vampire after 3 days in grave.
Post by: TD1 on November 15, 2017, 11:07:11 am
Post by: smjjames on November 15, 2017, 11:11:27 am
Post by: pikachu17 on November 15, 2017, 11:20:47 am
Post by: Mathel on November 15, 2017, 01:37:14 pm
What undead is not posthumous?
Post by: smjjames on November 15, 2017, 01:51:17 pm
Post by: birdy51 on November 15, 2017, 02:10:22 pm
Post by: pikachu17 on November 15, 2017, 02:32:48 pm
Almost all?There are a few undead creatures that just start out that way, not having been alive in the first place. I believe Devourers were that way in 3.5, but I'm not absolutely sure.
What undead is not posthumous?
Post by: Criptfeind on November 15, 2017, 02:46:57 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 15, 2017, 02:53:52 pm
Whether or not they count as an undead that never died (are all gods even alive?) I just think they're kinda cool okay
Post by: pikachu17 on November 15, 2017, 03:20:31 pm
Post by: Criptfeind on November 15, 2017, 03:42:29 pm
Atropal scions (who are in the libris mortis) are apparently what happens when one is defeated and the bits of it attract the attention of an evil or uncaring god of death. So like, postposthumous!
I think they are both pretty disgusting. The first one's basically a still born baby and the second is an aborted fetus as imagined by an anti abortionist.
Post by: TD1 on November 15, 2017, 05:20:47 pm
Then there's the Atropal's possible daddy, who was possibly created Undead.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 15, 2017, 05:35:08 pm
> Our current campaign touches on Io, creator of all dragons
Coincidence?
Also I need to stop treating this like the D&D thread.
Post by: smjjames on November 28, 2017, 06:26:31 pm
Post by: Akura on November 28, 2017, 07:54:53 pm
Quote from: Vaarsuvius
I would argue that none of you possibly have enough evidence to jump to this conclusion, but experience has taught me that only guarantees it to be the case.
Ain't it the truth?
Post by: Egan_BW on November 28, 2017, 09:01:00 pm
Post by: Enemy post on December 06, 2017, 07:56:31 pm
Post by: smjjames on December 06, 2017, 08:03:01 pm
Post by: TD1 on December 06, 2017, 08:07:03 pm
Inb4 antics in which child is stolen, thrown, or both.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 06, 2017, 08:19:53 pm
Also Kudzu's line is seriously adorable.
(Though to read a lot from a cute, it's not something an evil cleric would be able to say... Ah, speculation has Hilgya as Chaotic Neutral, channeling positive energy, which would fit. Otherwise she'd have to have prepared all the spells in this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0077.html) ahead of time.) (Loki is chaotic evil, but clerics can be one step apart from their deity)
Post by: Akura on December 06, 2017, 09:26:46 pm
(Loki is chaotic evil, but clerics can be one step apart from their deity)
Even so, if a deity is Evil, a Neutral Cleric still has to take Evil-based class powers. Speculation on the GitP forums is that Loki is CN.
Looking back at Hilgya's original appearance, it's hard to tell. She explicitly refers to Loki as "God of Flames and Chaos", definitely confirming Chaotic alignment. A later scene also has Thor calling Loki "wicked", implying Evil. But before that, Durkon and Hilgya were exchanging several Cure Wounds spells, more than would be reasonably prepared without burning other spells, which isn't possible under an Evil deity.
Post by: smjjames on December 06, 2017, 09:33:52 pm
Post by: Dorsidwarf on December 07, 2017, 12:31:56 pm
Post by: scriver on December 07, 2017, 01:05:58 pm
Post by: pikachu17 on December 07, 2017, 01:48:03 pm
And he is a practicer of dark magic, as well.
Pretty much the only good thing about him is that he opposes Giants, and he doesn't even actively do that as much as Thor.
Post by: TD1 on December 07, 2017, 02:06:02 pm
Post by: Imic on December 07, 2017, 02:06:51 pm
Post by: TD1 on December 07, 2017, 02:10:02 pm
Post by: pikachu17 on December 07, 2017, 02:13:06 pm
Post by: Akura on December 07, 2017, 05:38:47 pm
Also, to be fair, he didn't rape a horse. It was consensual, as Loki was the mare, and the stallion mounted him (her?).
Sort of. The whole thing was a joke that, due to circumstances, went on for too long and too far. Originally, Loki had challenged a giant to build a fortress within a certain amount of time. To win the bet, Loki became a mare to distract the giant's horse. By the Loki realized "I have a giant's horse's cock inside me" is far past the point a practical joke usually ends... well, it was a little bit too late to stop.
He did win the bet, though.
Post by: TD1 on December 07, 2017, 05:48:24 pm
Slepnir, Odin's six legged horse, is the result. He's both his mount and his nephew.
Post by: Reelya on December 07, 2017, 05:51:01 pm
With a dm that is just straight fed up with his behaviour. Hence stuff like horse rape.
Also, to be fair, he didn't rape a horse. It was consensual, as Loki was the mare, and the stallion mounted him (her?).
I'm pretty certain scriver meant rape by horse here, as a "dm punishment" for the Chaotic Neutral Loki.
Post by: TD1 on December 07, 2017, 05:57:07 pm
Post by: scriver on December 07, 2017, 06:50:29 pm
I thought it was a wall being built? Odin was convinced by Loki to accept a deal whereby if the giant could complete the wall within a certain amount of time, he could have Freyja as his wife (or maybe it was the moon, not too sure anymore.) When it looked like, with the help of his horse, the giant was gonna win, Odin was not pleased. To salvage the situation, Loki turned himself into a mare and distracted the horse.
Slepnir, Odin's six legged horse, is the result. He's both his mount and his nephew.
It was a wall. Specifically, a wall around all of Asgard. Odin was the one who made the deal in the first place, because he did not intend to pay up. Loki distracting the magically fast and strong horse was just the first attempt to cheat the giant. Eventually the giant succeeded despite having lost his magic pony - so Odin sent Thor to void the deal.
And I think you know what I mean by "void the deal".
Oh right, my bad. Dunno whether it's rape, though, given what else was Loki expecting? When the stallion starts sniffing your nether regions, it's either time to run or shapeshift the hell out of there.
Running was part of the distraction ;)
Post by: Mathel on December 09, 2017, 03:32:11 am
I thought it was a wall being built? Odin was convinced by Loki to accept a deal whereby if the giant could complete the wall within a certain amount of time, he could have Freyja as his wife (or maybe it was the moon, not too sure anymore.) When it looked like, with the help of his horse, the giant was gonna win, Odin was not pleased. To salvage the situation, Loki turned himself into a mare and distracted the horse.
Slepnir, Odin's six legged horse, is the result. He's both his mount and his nephew.
Well, if you can count blood brothership as enough to make their children your nephews.
But the funny thing is, that Sleipnir is the least bad of Loki's children that I know of.
Fenrir, the Wolf has already eaten Tyr's hand and will eat the sun.
Jormundgander, the Midgardsormr (Worldsnake) will eventually kill Thor, who will kill him.
Hel is the ruler of Helheim and goddes of sickness and death.
Sleipnir just carries Odin.
Running was part of the distraction ;)
Unfortunately for him (her?), Loki could not run fast enough.
Post by: Harry Baldman on December 09, 2017, 05:42:17 am
Post by: Mathel on December 09, 2017, 05:54:43 am
And yes, this sounds exactly like that. I remember, that they even sent Thor disguised (but NOT shapeshifted) as Freya. How was the giant not able to tell the difference, I have no idea.
Edit: And Freya was supposed to be the price for the Giant making the wall in time.
Post by: Dorsidwarf on December 09, 2017, 08:59:16 am
Would Fenrir really want to kill the gods so badly, had they not tied him with a ribbon made of weird stuff?
And yes, this sounds exactly like that. I remember, that they even sent Thor disguised (but NOT shapeshifted) as Freya. How was the giant not able to tell the difference, I have no idea.
Edit: And Freya was supposed to be the price for the Giant making the wall in time.
the bit where they sent Thor dressed as Freya is a completely different myth, about the theft of Mjolnir, if I'm not mistaken.
edit: and as for the wall story, I've usually found it written as "the man with a horse, who was secretly a giant, made the deal/offer to Odin, who said "no thats an awful deal for us", but was persuaded by Loki, who bet his life that it was impossible for the giant to finish the wall and therefore would not need paying"
Post by: Scoops Novel on December 29, 2017, 06:10:41 am
Post by: Imic on December 29, 2017, 07:27:20 am
Why is this called the order of the stick?That question is forbidden. To the magma pits you go.
Post by: Criptfeind on December 29, 2017, 07:35:59 am
Post by: Lord Shonus on December 29, 2017, 09:04:13 am
Also, they're stick figures.
Post by: Culise on December 29, 2017, 03:35:17 pm
Post by: smjjames on December 29, 2017, 03:47:27 pm
Coincidentally, the thread came back just in time for a new strip: Boys Don't Scry (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1108.html).
Oh hey, the 'trace amounts works for the spell' argument. Will Save World for Gold did that over two months ago. (http://willsaveworldforgold.com/?p=2390) I know from discussion on the DND thread (or maybe here) that it works for raise dead spells, but I have no idea about the scrying stuff. Although Rich Burlew is using some homecooked rules I believe.
Also, I love how Hilgya jumps right to assumptions, lol.
Post by: pikachu17 on December 29, 2017, 03:52:13 pm
Coincidentally, the thread came back just in time for a new strip: Boys Don't Scry (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1108.html).Funny, I checked for a new strip earlier today, and didn't see this. Just off timing?
Post by: Akura on December 29, 2017, 06:02:02 pm
Quote from: V as usual
Actually... I believe Miss Starshine likely possesses an appropriate bodily fluid.Knew where that was going to go even before reaching the next panel.
Coincidentally, the thread came back just in time for a new strip: Boys Don't Scry (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1108.html).
Oh hey, the 'trace amounts works for the spell' argument. Will Save World for Gold did that over two months ago. (http://willsaveworldforgold.com/?p=2390) I know from discussion on the DND thread (or maybe here) that it works for raise dead spells, but I have no idea about the scrying stuff. Although Rich Burlew is using some homecooked rules I believe.
"Trace amounts" does NOT work for Raise Dead - it requires the entire body, reasonably intact(missing pieces are still missing). It DOES work for Resurrection though(though it requires the bit to have been a part of them when they died). It technically works with True Resurrection, but is not actually required.
Coincidentally, the thread came back just in time for a new strip: Boys Don't Scry (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1108.html).Funny, I checked for a new strip earlier today, and didn't see this. Just off timing?
Same, when I noticed the thread was posted in, I expected and checked for a new strip, only to be temporarily disappointed.
Post by: smjjames on December 29, 2017, 06:09:02 pm
Post by: Culise on December 29, 2017, 08:15:06 pm
Likely so. I did the exact same thing; I just came back to the site twice on the same day because I was going to look up something or other and saw the new comic in the sidebar.Coincidentally, the thread came back just in time for a new strip: Boys Don't Scry (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1108.html).Funny, I checked for a new strip earlier today, and didn't see this. Just off timing?
Post by: Mathel on December 30, 2017, 03:41:16 am
Post by: TD1 on December 30, 2017, 12:12:59 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on December 31, 2017, 09:43:50 pm
Post by: NRDL on January 01, 2018, 01:45:24 am
Narrative abhors a vaccum.
That sounds like something you'd hear in a Discworld novel.
Post by: scriver on January 01, 2018, 01:55:10 am
Blood is powerful magic.
Post by: hops on January 01, 2018, 09:28:55 am
Post by: MrWiggles on January 01, 2018, 09:28:16 pm
Must be real easy to scry for Lichlord Genghis Khan.You think, but his put so much cake batter into too many ovens, its just too much noise.
Post by: Rolan7 on January 01, 2018, 10:51:59 pm
But would you be able to scry Lichlord Genghis's soul? Hmm...
I'm enjoying these updates (:
Post by: smjjames on January 02, 2018, 10:15:27 am
Must be real easy to scry for Lichlord Genghis Khan.You think, but his put so much cake batter into too many ovens, its just too much noise.
I love that euphenism there.
Post by: smjjames on January 09, 2018, 01:13:41 pm
The heck is 'anarchic water'? Also, not sure if vampire durkon sensed the scrying or just happened to cast that sending spell (at least I think it's one) at that moment.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 09, 2018, 01:16:25 pm
Post by: Harry Baldman on January 09, 2018, 01:17:37 pm
New one this morning (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1109.html).
The heck is 'anarchic water'? Also, not sure if vampire durkon sensed the scrying or just happened to cast that sending spell (at least I think it's one) at that moment.
Anarchic water is like holy water except instead presumably aligned with chaos. Its counterpart would be axiomatic water!
Post by: smjjames on January 09, 2018, 01:19:10 pm
Even if one ambush was spoiled, I'd still be on the lookout for signs of an ambush because there could be more than one set up.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 09, 2018, 02:06:41 pm
Speaking of the sending spell, can vampire durkon see or hear the surroundings of the target?Nope (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Sending)
Post by: Egan_BW on January 09, 2018, 09:46:42 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on January 09, 2018, 09:47:34 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on January 09, 2018, 09:50:29 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on January 09, 2018, 09:51:40 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on January 09, 2018, 09:53:51 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on January 09, 2018, 09:57:12 pm
Post by: Criptfeind on January 09, 2018, 09:58:18 pm
Post by: smjjames on January 09, 2018, 10:02:50 pm
Just cast a level 12 spell that doesn't give anyone under level 25 or any spells below level 10 the chance to see you scrying? That should keep you mostly safe.
I don't play DnD but even to me it doesn't sound like it would work that way, at least not the way you worded it probably.
Post by: Culise on January 09, 2018, 10:47:47 pm
Or, you know, talk to some gnomes and ask them to develop a non-magical device to take images, some sort of light-recording mechanism like a sunprint or heliogene. That would require you to work with gnomish inventions, though.
Post by: milo christiansen on January 10, 2018, 12:58:22 am
New one this morning (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1109.html).
Well, it would be really nice if they updated their RSS feed.
Post by: scriver on January 10, 2018, 06:50:51 am
Post by: andrea on January 10, 2018, 07:10:43 am
Post by: Arx on January 10, 2018, 07:37:51 am
Post by: pikachu17 on January 10, 2018, 02:13:06 pm
Post by: TD1 on January 10, 2018, 02:17:45 pm
Post by: Harry Baldman on January 10, 2018, 07:28:07 pm
Was Loki associated with fire in the original myths? Because all I can remember of Loki and Fire having to do with each other was when they had an eating contest against each other.
Norse mythology is pretty loose and variable and so the thing there was that there's definitely a fire god Loki and a trickster Loki in there, it's not 100% clear that they're meant to be the same god as far as I'm aware.
Post by: smjjames on January 10, 2018, 07:32:52 pm
Was Loki associated with fire in the original myths? Because all I can remember of Loki and Fire having to do with each other was when they had an eating contest against each other.
Norse mythology is pretty loose and variable and so the thing there was that there's definitely a fire god Loki and a trickster Loki in there, it's not 100% clear that they're meant to be the same god as far as I'm aware.
Loki was also a servant of Thor for a time.
Post by: Greiger on January 11, 2018, 04:30:00 am
Now I learn that he is a key ingredient to swords.
Post by: Mathel on January 11, 2018, 10:17:54 am
Loki as the god of the forge? That's a pretty little known attribute of his, though I guess it's a side job because fire.Was Loki associated with fire in the original myths? Because all I can remember of Loki and Fire having to do with each other was when they had an eating contest against each other.
Norse mythology is pretty loose and variable and so the thing there was that there's definitely a fire god Loki and a trickster Loki in there, it's not 100% clear that they're meant to be the same god as far as I'm aware.
Loki was also a servant of Thor for a time.
Do you know the story, where Thor and his friend Loki, go visit the Utgarda-Loki, who plays tricks on them? Tricks like having Thor brawl with Old Age herself, having Thor drink the sea from a horn and pitting Loki angainst Logi, the Fire, in an eating contest.
Post by: smjjames on January 11, 2018, 10:27:02 am
Loki as the god of the forge? That's a pretty little known attribute of his, though I guess it's a side job because fire.Was Loki associated with fire in the original myths? Because all I can remember of Loki and Fire having to do with each other was when they had an eating contest against each other.
Norse mythology is pretty loose and variable and so the thing there was that there's definitely a fire god Loki and a trickster Loki in there, it's not 100% clear that they're meant to be the same god as far as I'm aware.
Loki was also a servant of Thor for a time.
Do you know the story, where Thor and his friend Loki, go visit the Utgarda-Loki, who plays tricks on them? Tricks like having Thor brawl with Old Age herself, having Thor drink the sea from a horn and pitting Loki angainst Logi, the Fire, in an eating contest.
Yep, that's the one, though I don't remember the name of the magician who played tricks on the pair. He also tricked (or perhaps pre-planned, since there was certainly danger of Thor doing that) Thor into thinking he hit the magicians head with mjolnir when he had actually hit a mountain.
Post by: Mathel on January 11, 2018, 02:43:12 pm
I thought that the intended target of the bash was a jotun, who was leading them to the Utgarda-Loki. But yes, a mountain was hit instead. But in Thor's defence, he was angry because the jotun (Who was indeed a giant, considering that the pair at one point slept in his glove) gave them a bag of supplies tied with Trickery (so they could not open it), third day in a row.Loki as the god of the forge? That's a pretty little known attribute of his, though I guess it's a side job because fire.Was Loki associated with fire in the original myths? Because all I can remember of Loki and Fire having to do with each other was when they had an eating contest against each other.
Norse mythology is pretty loose and variable and so the thing there was that there's definitely a fire god Loki and a trickster Loki in there, it's not 100% clear that they're meant to be the same god as far as I'm aware.
Loki was also a servant of Thor for a time.
Do you know the story, where Thor and his friend Loki, go visit the Utgarda-Loki, who plays tricks on them? Tricks like having Thor brawl with Old Age herself, having Thor drink the sea from a horn and pitting Loki angainst Logi, the Fire, in an eating contest.
Yep, that's the one, though I don't remember the name of the magician who played tricks on the pair. He also tricked (or perhaps pre-planned, since there was certainly danger of Thor doing that) Thor into thinking he hit the magicians head with mjolnir when he had actually hit a mountain.
False edit:
So, turns out that according to the wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Atgar%C3%B0a-Loki), Thor tried to hit the jotun (Whose name is Skrýmir) for snoring too loudly, rather than for giving them unopenable bags of food. Also, Skýmir was Utgarda-Loki in disguise, so he was the magician.
/ End False Edit
But I wonder, what if the 3 Lokies got mixed into 1? And there had to actually be 3 of them. While Loki is a known shapeshifter, he still can not be at 2 places at once. Also, maybe the Midgardsormr (Jormundgander) was originaly Utgarda-Loki's son, rather than regular Loki's. It would explain how UL was able to convince him to stand still in the form of a cat while Thor was trying to lift him.
Post by: pikachu17 on January 12, 2018, 02:04:45 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on January 18, 2018, 04:59:12 pm
I like the confirmation that Sending is single-target, I'm not sure if that was explicit before or not. Probably misremembering.
Though Belkar's looking at Durkula... I guess it's visible? Meh whatever :P
Post by: Akura on January 18, 2018, 06:43:41 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on January 18, 2018, 07:33:56 pm
Post by: milo christiansen on January 18, 2018, 08:17:23 pm
EDIT: I checked the raw feed data, and it isn't a problem with my reader, it simply doesn't update when the comic does, instead it updates hours or even days later.
Post by: MrWiggles on January 20, 2018, 02:07:06 am
Post by: smjjames on January 20, 2018, 02:28:53 am
Post by: Rolan7 on January 27, 2018, 12:34:47 am
Post by: Greiger on January 27, 2018, 05:27:12 am
Post by: Akura on January 27, 2018, 05:50:13 am
I guess Durkon rolled a 1 on his Spot check there when looking at the situation. He ignored his minions warning about Hilgya(that's gonna cost him), and now he's doing what got him killed in the first place: splitting the party.
Also interesting is how the Exarch is able to protest Durkon's orders. If he were a spawned slave, he'd obey without question.
Post by: scriver on January 28, 2018, 07:31:46 am
Post by: Felissan on January 28, 2018, 08:05:45 am
If Evil people took a few classes in Narrative Structure they'd be a lot more unstoppable.But they need a very careful dose of them, because otherwise they end up on the Tarquin end of the spectrum and become stoppable again.
Post by: hops on January 28, 2018, 06:13:32 pm
Post by: Zanzetkuken The Great on February 02, 2018, 10:46:01 pm
If Evil people took a few classes in Narrative Structure they'd be a lot more unstoppable.But they need a very careful dose of them, because otherwise they end up on the Tarquin end of the spectrum and become stoppable again.
Tarquin lied in the uncanny valley of the Narrative Structure Knowledge spectrum. The place where you have great knowledge of the Narrative Structure, but not the wisdom to realize that "the exception proves the rule and mucks over the plan" and you therefore need backups at the critical times of the plans where that is likeliest to occur.
Post by: Felissan on February 03, 2018, 05:08:07 am
Post by: Enemy post on February 10, 2018, 01:31:29 pm
Post by: Imic on February 10, 2018, 01:53:19 pm
Post by: TD1 on February 10, 2018, 01:54:57 pm
I forget where these vampires came from, actually. Is she a priestess from that godsmoot thing?
Post by: Dorsidwarf on February 10, 2018, 05:43:07 pm
Post by: Akura on February 10, 2018, 05:43:39 pm
The one who has the evil gal inside herself?
I forget where these vampires came from, actually. Is she a priestess from that godsmoot thing?
Assuming she wasn't created locally, they're from a neutral(probably Neutral as well) cult that worships stone. They were the ones maintaining the neutral(probably Neutral as well) ground for the Godsmoot to take place. The cult's Exarch is Durkon's #2.
PRE-EDIT: Ninja'd.
Post by: Enemy post on February 20, 2018, 12:37:50 pm
Post by: Imic on February 20, 2018, 12:44:13 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on February 20, 2018, 12:50:29 pm
Quote
But 'evil' is that which is morally bad or wrong. And if your actions are judged by your society as correct, aren't you, in fact, good?
Quote
Hmmm... We ARE All Evil. We All Behave In A Mutually Agreed-Upon Fashion Of Murder, Torture, Deceit And So Forth. Our Uniform Acceptance Of This Heinous Credo Creates An Orderly And Cooperative Society. Which Hardly Seems Evil. Evil Is Doing Things That Make Others Hurt Or Fear. We ALL Do That, Of Course. But Since We ALL Do Such Things, As Sanctioned By Our Culture, It Would Be `Bad' To Do Otherwise. Which Means... Er... Puny Hu-Man, Do Not Play With Words! You Anger Both Dogar And Kazon! Now You Must Die!
Post by: Felissan on February 20, 2018, 01:29:15 pm
Post by: Imic on February 20, 2018, 02:21:56 pm
Loki has solidified even further his position as my favorite background character.I agree.
Post by: Akura on February 20, 2018, 05:33:33 pm
Spoiler: Revelation (click to show/hide)
I wonder what happened to that one dwarf who died of mummy rot that they got from defending an orphanage? Did Loki get them too?
Post by: smjjames on February 20, 2018, 06:06:00 pm
Spoiler: Revelation (click to show/hide)
I wonder what happened to that one dwarf who died of mummy rot that they got from defending an orphanage? Did Loki get them too?
Loki is traditionally depicted as male, but given that he's a shapeshifter, he could become either.
Post by: TD1 on February 20, 2018, 06:08:21 pm
Post by: hops on February 20, 2018, 07:17:49 pm
Post by: Imic on February 21, 2018, 02:22:26 am
Post by: smjjames on March 12, 2018, 01:48:49 pm
Been a while since Rich Burlew made a new one.
Post by: Akura on March 12, 2018, 09:42:53 pm
Also, looking at the Gelatinous Cube in the SRD, how dense are these things supposed to be? They're a 10-foot cube, and weigh 15,000 pounds. Looking that up with a calculator (http://www.calculator.net/density-calculator.html) for kilogram-per-cubic-meter, this gelatin is more dense than platinum(>24000 kg/m³ for the gelatin, 21450 for platinum).
Post by: Lord Shonus on March 12, 2018, 09:55:05 pm
Post by: smjjames on March 12, 2018, 10:00:43 pm
As for the density, what options did you use and numbers did you input? I put volume at 3.048 (which is 10 cubic feet) and weight at 15000 (the calculator doesn't like commas for some reason), and got a density of 4921.2598425197 kg/m3
edit: Ninjad doubleedit: Wait, Lord Shonus's number is different from mine. EDIT!: I put in KILOS, not pounds! or rather I set it to kilos rather than pounds *goes off to another calculator to convert pounds to kilos)
Post by: smjjames on March 12, 2018, 10:03:41 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on March 12, 2018, 10:04:40 pm
Also I think the cubes are supposed to be 10 feet cubed, rather than 10 cubic feet.
Post by: smjjames on March 12, 2018, 10:16:37 pm
As for the wierd density, I suspect that someone simply threw some numbers in there without checking if they made sense. Making them 1,500 pounds rather than 15k makes them have a density of 150.0, denser than air, but you probably wouldn't float in it.
Post by: Lord Shonus on March 12, 2018, 10:17:24 pm
Okay, recalculated, 15k pounds is 6 803.885 55 kilos, gonna round that up though.... New density is 2232.2834645669
You still have the volume wrong. A gelacube is 10'x10'x10', or 1000 cubic feet. This translates to ~28 cubic meters, not 3.
Post by: smjjames on March 12, 2018, 10:25:58 pm
Also makes them a heck of a lot less of a threat than they're supposed to be if the most they can do is try and suffocate you.
Post by: Culise on March 12, 2018, 10:27:11 pm
I wondered how the heck they'd be able to breathe while riding inside the gelatinous cube.Bottles of air? I know that 3.5 gelatinous cubes don't threaten suffocation/drowning for some reason, so it may just be some RAW silliness. Air-impermeable gelatinous cubes came with Pathfinder and...well, 5e for sure, since I didn't follow 4e as much.
Post by: Lord Shonus on March 12, 2018, 10:32:31 pm
As for breathing, the rules text doesn't say you can't breath inside one, and the 3.0e magic item you use to ride one specifically states that neither the cube or the item blocks air.
Post by: smjjames on March 12, 2018, 10:40:48 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on March 27, 2018, 07:52:13 pm
Post by: pikachu17 on March 27, 2018, 07:59:16 pm
I have a feeling it might come up soon.
Post by: smjjames on March 27, 2018, 08:01:04 pm
What was the Oracle's prophecy for (the ranger, because I have forgotten everyone's names)?
I have a feeling it might come up soon.
Basically that he won't live to see his next birthday, whenever that is.
Anyways, Belkar letting it all out in a rant, haven't had one of those in a while.
Post by: pikachu17 on March 27, 2018, 08:27:12 pm
Does anyone know the exact words? It is a prophecy, the precise wording is important.
For instance, in the case of the words you used, he could simply go blind.
Post by: Criptfeind on March 27, 2018, 08:32:25 pm
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Post by: Egan_BW on March 27, 2018, 08:38:28 pm
Post by: pikachu17 on March 27, 2018, 08:45:31 pm
Or he puts on a cursed amulet of not-needing-to-breathe.if it doesn't kill him, doesn't sound very cursed.
I think it was "Belkar will draw his last breath-ever-before the end of the year." Which implies real death without Resurrection. Or it could mean he turns into an unbreathing undead and doesn't get turned back. Or a fish.Fish do breathe.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
One of three things will most likely happen.
1:It's a typical prophecy, and while it comes true, Belkar will not permenantly die.
2:He really is going to die, and the prophecy would be a double-blind for us genre-knowing.
3:the prophecy was faked, and Is not A prophecy at all. Unlikely, but included just in case.
Post by: Greiger on March 28, 2018, 12:47:38 am
Post by: Cattani on March 28, 2018, 06:32:27 am
Post by: Culise on March 28, 2018, 06:47:31 am
Post by: smjjames on March 29, 2018, 08:57:33 am
Yea but is that still technically breathing? Don't they pass water through their gills and their gills just filter the oxygen out of the water? The water really does not enter an internal organ or anything like we think of as breathing.
Well, technically it enters the mouth which is technically an internal organ.
Post by: Culise on April 04, 2018, 06:45:07 pm
...I have no words.
Post by: Rolan7 on April 04, 2018, 06:55:21 pm
Post by: Akura on April 04, 2018, 08:59:46 pm
Post by: smjjames on April 04, 2018, 09:59:55 pm
Certainly fitting for the chaos/disorder aspect of Loki.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 05, 2018, 08:58:31 am
Post by: smjjames on April 05, 2018, 09:04:44 am
I was under the impression that Roy had emptied his bag of critters.
Would explain the small critters, but not the giraffes. Pretty sure Helga is the one who summoned the polychromatic giraffes.
Post by: Rolan7 on April 05, 2018, 09:06:57 am
Post by: Enemy post on April 17, 2018, 01:20:11 pm
Post by: smjjames on April 17, 2018, 01:31:14 pm
Post by: pikachu17 on April 17, 2018, 01:57:22 pm
Post by: smjjames on April 17, 2018, 01:59:31 pm
Post by: Sergius on April 17, 2018, 02:38:28 pm
Post by: scriver on April 17, 2018, 03:46:07 pm
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 17, 2018, 03:55:17 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on April 17, 2018, 03:57:38 pm
Post by: Sergius on April 17, 2018, 04:10:50 pm
Post by: smjjames on April 17, 2018, 05:10:18 pm
Post by: scriver on April 17, 2018, 06:00:34 pm
it kinda hurts him. look at his robe and his face
Robes, being made of woven thread, are all lawfully aligned, though.
Post by: TD1 on April 17, 2018, 06:04:58 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on April 17, 2018, 09:00:46 pm
it kinda hurts him. look at his robe and his face
Robes, being made of woven thread, are all lawfully aligned, though.
How can that be, when cloaks are classic rogue attire?
Post by: smjjames on April 17, 2018, 09:04:16 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on April 17, 2018, 09:10:09 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on April 17, 2018, 09:12:19 pm
Post by: Elephant Parade on April 17, 2018, 09:13:42 pm
Obviously not too much so, or we'd know by now what gender V is.I thought he was confirmed to be male? Do we actually still not know?
edit: huh (http://oots.wikia.com/wiki/Vaarsuvius)
Post by: Lord Shonus on April 17, 2018, 09:15:14 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on April 17, 2018, 09:19:00 pm
Post by: smjjames on April 17, 2018, 09:20:42 pm
Bards cannot be lawful, Druids must be some flavor of neutral, and Clerics have to be within a step of their god on each axis.
Barbarians also cannot be lawful, for what that's worth.
Forgot about the clerics, and I don't get how bards can't be lawful. Elan is a bard and he seems to be in the lawful good zone, though maybe not strictly lawful because his girlfriend is a chaotic neutral (or maybe good?) rogue.
Obviously not too much so, or we'd know by now what gender V is.I thought he was confirmed to be male? Do we actually still not know?
edit: huh (http://oots.wikia.com/wiki/Vaarsuvius)
Word Of Giant is that V is genderqueer, IIRC.
V is intentionally gender ambigous.
Post by: Arcvasti on April 17, 2018, 09:25:37 pm
Forgot about the clerics, and I don't get how bards can't be lawful. Elan is a bard and he seems to be in the lawful good zone, though maybe not strictly lawful because his girlfriend is a chaotic neutral (or maybe good?) rogue.
Eh, he's pretty cavalier about stealing things when he's left alone in Cliffport, although he does leave an apology note (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0388.html). I agree that its a strange restriction on the class, but it does fit for Elan.
Post by: Lord Shonus on April 17, 2018, 09:35:09 pm
Forgot about the clerics, and I don't get how bards can't be lawful. Elan is a bard and he seems to be in the lawful good zone, though maybe not strictly lawful because his girlfriend is a chaotic neutral (or maybe good?) rogue.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/bard.htm
Alignment
Any nonlawful.
Elan is canonically Chaotic Good.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?324877-Elan-s-Alignment-Heading-South/page2&p=16773002#post16773002
Quote
This. Elan's willingness to accept surrenders before is a result of his alignment, but it is not the only possible interpretation of his alignment. This time, he chose a second, equally Good option. Shifting from one valid interpretation of Chaotic Good to another is not grounds for an alignment change, because there's no such thing as "degrees" of Goodness. You're either Good, or you're not.
For example, Elan doesn't steal from people because he feels bad about it. If he suddenly decides to start stealing from the rich and giving to the poor, he doesn't change alignment at all because he's changed from one way of looking at CG (the Elan way) to another way (the Robin Hood way). It may seem like a huge shift from a character development angle, but alignment-wise, it's all the same.
Quote
V is intentionally gender ambigous.
Found the source. The author's commentary in Blood Runs In The Family
Quote
In this way, Tarquin is also symbolic of an older time when stories were likely to be more formulaic or cliched - and less diverse. It's no accident that he's a wealthy old straight white man losing his marbles over the fact that the tale he is experiencing doesn't focus on the other straight white man at the expense of the black man, the woman, the genderqueer person, and even the Latino guest star.
This probably wasn't the original intention, but the running joke about ambiguous gender provided the perfect solution when the Giant started deliberately making his work more socially conscious. This is one of the reason's V's children are adopted - to leave the possibility that both Parent and Other Parent are both biologically male or female.
Post by: smjjames on April 17, 2018, 09:42:45 pm
@Lord Shonus: Yeah, it'd make more sense for him to be on the chaotic side even though he seems lawful at times, which I suppose is a facet of him being chaotic.
Also, latino guest star?
Post by: Rolan7 on April 17, 2018, 09:44:34 pm
One thing I like is that they don't lose any of their powers if they "mellow out", becoming lawful. They just can't advance as bards anymore. Lawful barbarians have it worse, losing the ability to go crazy (rage), but they keep all the other abilities like extraordinary toughness and trap sense. Paladins definitely get hit the hardest, and have by far the strictest requirements (5th edition reworked this a lot, with a choice of specific oaths).
It's always seemed slightly odd that rogues have no alignment restriction, but only based on the name. Rogues are really just highly skilled professionals who know basic anatomy.
Fakedit:
Very interesting, thanks for digging that up.QuoteV is intentionally gender ambigous.
Found the source. The author's commentary in Blood Runs In The FamilyQuoteIn this way, Tarquin is also symbolic of an older time when stories were likely to be more formulaic or cliched - and less diverse. It's no accident that he's a wealthy old straight white man losing his marbles over the fact that the tale he is experiencing doesn't focus on the other straight white man at the expense of the black man, the woman, the genderqueer person, and even the Latino guest star.
This probably wasn't the original intention, but the running joke about ambiguous gender provided the perfect solution when the Giant started deliberately making his work more socially conscious. This is one of the reason's V's children are adopted - to leave the possibility that both Parent and Other Parent are both biologically male or female.
Post by: Lord Shonus on April 17, 2018, 09:52:52 pm
Alignment restrictions don't seem to be absolute in the OOTS universe though since you can waver around the edges while staying in the realm of a particular alignment as we saw with Roy. Plus there was Miziko (or something) who was clearly straying from the required lawful good alignment, but didn't lose her paladin status until she straight up murdered her Emperor, or maybe it was when her Emperor personally cast her out, I forget.
@Lord Shonus: Yeah, it'd make more sense for him to be on the chaotic side even though he seems lawful at times, which I suppose is a facet of him being chaotic.
Also, latino guest star?
Julio Scoundrel was the Latino guest star in that arc.
As for alignment, Burlew is openly and deliberatly trying to show that alignment is not the "9 little straightjackets" that detractors claim it is, and it allows for plenty of nuance. Miko was able to maintain Paladin status because her alignment never really wavered (note that she made an effort to investigate the OOTS, used Detect Evil before attacking, and was perfectly willing to accept surrenders) - not everything she did was Good, but her actions never dropped south of Neutral. She only lost paladin status when she broke the Paladin code by murdering a defenseless old man who happened to be her lawful liege. Roy was only really in danger of losing LG status because his betrayal of Elan was a truly monstrous act, and also because Belkar was his evil employee.
Post by: smjjames on April 17, 2018, 09:58:30 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on April 17, 2018, 10:03:03 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on April 17, 2018, 10:12:01 pm
...Now this is making me think that lawful barbarians should be able to rage still, but only when feeling righteous indignation, hehe.
Post by: smjjames on April 17, 2018, 10:14:40 pm
Don't think multiclassing is in 3.x however.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on April 17, 2018, 10:19:53 pm
Post by: smjjames on April 17, 2018, 10:23:45 pm
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on April 17, 2018, 10:31:52 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on April 17, 2018, 10:35:28 pm
Elan considered taking a level of wizard, but decided against it. The whole Banjo thing is from him considering a level in cleric, heh. He does have levels in Dashing Swordsman now, but I don't think prestige classes count as multiclassing.
Other than that... Technically that goth chick working for Xykon had to multiclass in order to become a mystic theurge (requires arcane and divine spellcasting). And that half-orc running the Thieves Guild might have fighter levels, not sure.
Post by: Egan_BW on April 17, 2018, 11:18:42 pm
Edit: Fighter/Rogue/Sorcerer, it was.
Post by: smjjames on April 17, 2018, 11:54:15 pm
Post by: scriver on April 18, 2018, 12:14:33 am
it kinda hurts him. look at his robe and his face
Robes, being made of woven thread, are all lawfully aligned, though.
How can that be, when cloaks are classic rogue attire?
They use leather ones ;)
Post by: Lord Shonus on April 18, 2018, 06:03:45 am
I thought it was Roy who had multiclassed as barbarian? I thought he took some levels in something other than fighter. There was the architectural knowledge he randomly decided to pick up plus a bit of ranged which he hadn't done since school.
Roy is a single-class fighter. The skill ranks he used were called out as cross-class, and he learned to use a bow in Fighter College.
Post by: Egan_BW on April 18, 2018, 06:07:10 am
Post by: Harry Baldman on April 18, 2018, 02:06:43 pm
The fact that he hasn't used a bow since school is a joke on the fact that all fighters know how to use a bow, but many will never use it because they're the "hitting things" class.
Well, more because bows aren't very good in D&D 3.5 for doing any kind of remotely okay damage, but otherwise yeah.
Post by: Sergius on April 18, 2018, 04:23:03 pm
Multiclassing is definitely in 3.5 and almost certainly 3.0 too. Heck. In AD&D the only way you could become a bard involved three class changes, from Fighter to Thief to Druid, so multiclassing was a thing way back in the early days. Of course you could easily be talking about something different and I'm sure that the specifics have changed quite a bit from edition to edition too so... Eh?
It could be said that 3.x was THE multiclassing edition, it was the one that codified the whole thing where each level you can pick a different class. Up to that point only demi-humans got their weird experience splitting/hit point averaging multi-class, mostly because they were limited to a maximum level in each class. And humans got some dual classing that was weird.
The fact that he hasn't used a bow since school is a joke on the fact that all fighters know how to use a bow, but many will never use it because they're the "hitting things" class.
Well, more because bows aren't very good in D&D 3.5 for doing any kind of remotely okay damage, but otherwise yeah.
Bows are annoying because you can't add ability bonus to damage, except for composite bows need high strength and dexterity to be effective.
Post by: Reelya on April 22, 2018, 02:03:34 pm
Up to 2nd ed, you could be a multi-class demihuman, but you had to choose the classes at character creation from a preset number of racially restricted choices. XP would be split between your 2-3 classes, and since each class had it's own unique level up table, the classses would level up at different rates.
Or, you could start as a single class human, then at some point, switch to another class but you're bumped back to first level and not allowed to use any of the old class's abilities until you get your new class back up to the level of the old class. This was how the bard thing worked in 1ed.
e.g. you could start as a fighter, then switch to a mage at level 4, but you had to somehow forget how to hold a sword and wear armor, then when you get mage back to level 4 and above, you were suddenly allowed to use your fighter abilities again. Which was a bullshit system, but obviously could be an advantage over playing a pure mage: start as a class with strong HP for a few levels then switch to a magic-heavy class later. Since early levels are so cheap you only end up about 1 level behind everyone else, but you can gain quite a few levels of fighter for that one lost level of mage (because each class had it's XP calculated separately).
Obviously, the 3ed+ system is a lot simpler than the above choices.
Post by: Enemy post on April 27, 2018, 12:06:50 am
Post by: smjjames on April 27, 2018, 09:22:01 am
Also, I'm pretty sure realDurkon showed the vampire his memory of using a creatively improvised sonic attack just as the other vampire did that, hence the being unimpressed.
Post by: Rolan7 on May 01, 2018, 10:20:47 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: scriver on May 01, 2018, 11:14:22 am
Post by: smjjames on May 01, 2018, 11:15:29 am
1119 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1119.html)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The edge of that seems to have also one hit KO'd one of the vampires.
Post by: Rolan7 on May 01, 2018, 11:52:35 am
Post by: smjjames on May 01, 2018, 12:03:58 pm
Wait, is she using her baby as a divine focus? That is a component for Flame Strike, and it's almost like Burlew is drawing attention to her off-hand (and other clerics typically are shown grasping their holy/unholy symbols at such times).
She clearly loves her son despite who fathered him and the fact that Durkon got her pregnant is currently the focus of her ire, so, that and the natural desire to protect her child makes sense that he could be used as the focus. It's kind of a double focus actually.
He also seems to be wearing a tiny pendant (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1113.html) which could be Loki's holy symbol. No idea what the rules are for that, but I guess if you're 'wearing' a creature that is then wearing a holy symbol, I guess it works? OR it could be the zipper on his one-piece, no idea.
Post by: Rolan7 on May 01, 2018, 12:13:00 pm
I was wrong about OotS clerics always being drawn grasping holy symbols when they're supposed to, but still.
Post by: Akura on May 01, 2018, 04:34:31 pm
How odd though, Flame Strike is not a Fire Domain spell, it's part of the Sun and War Domains. Not that she cast it as a domain spell. Damage from that would be 15d6 * 1.5(Empowered Spell), with half the damage(or 30 if the total damage is 60 or more) removed due to Resist Fire. Mr. Crispy is probably a lesser spawn and/or blew his Reflex save, though that spell could conceivably have dusted them all; (15*6)*1.5-30 = 105 damage. Only Durkon, assuming 17th-level, could potentially have that many hitpoints.
Post by: Culise on May 01, 2018, 06:42:54 pm
Post by: smjjames on May 01, 2018, 07:01:08 pm
Post by: Culise on May 01, 2018, 07:07:23 pm
Do we even know what Loki's holy symbol looks like? Helga from WAAAYY back (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0044.html) didn't have a pendant or anything while Durkon had (and is still wearing) his holy symbol pendant.We don't know what it looks like in this 'verse, but Deities and Demigods gives his symbol as a flame. I'm not sure if we'd actually see that much detail, though. The typical holy symbol pendants we've seen about are colored ovals.
Post by: TD1 on May 01, 2018, 07:15:29 pm
Post by: smjjames on May 01, 2018, 10:19:36 pm
Do we even know what Loki's holy symbol looks like? Helga from WAAAYY back (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0044.html) didn't have a pendant or anything while Durkon had (and is still wearing) his holy symbol pendant.We don't know what it looks like in this 'verse, but Deities and Demigods gives his symbol as a flame. I'm not sure if we'd actually see that much detail, though. The typical holy symbol pendants we've seen about are colored ovals.
Well yeah, given the lack of closeup shots of those which would provide detail they've been circular amulets/pendants with some colored jewel or something in the middle.
However, Helga doesn't seem to have one at all, that we can even see anyway.
Don't know about 3.5, but I've heard that the holy symbol can be anywhere on your person or anything that you're wearing, it doesn't have to be held in the hand. It could be inscribed inside the helmet or something for example.
Post by: crazyabe on May 01, 2018, 10:35:25 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on May 01, 2018, 10:39:28 pm
Woah.
Post by: smjjames on May 01, 2018, 10:47:22 pm
Just a strange thought, but with how conveniently Helga showed up, and the power she's displayed(Along with lack of Holy Symbols...) what are the odds she's Loki pulling a fast one on everyone?
That would be...
Woah.
He already did (on Hel at least, not the team), http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1106.html , read panels 2, 5, and 6. As Haley said, leave it to Loki to find a convenient loophole.
Post by: Egan_BW on May 01, 2018, 11:36:29 pm
Post by: smjjames on May 01, 2018, 11:48:27 pm
Pretty sure it was said somewhere that they did a pact that they can't physically manifest in the material plane or maybe they just can't in the OOTS universe. I'm sure theres some explaination for why she appears to be doing stuff with a lack of visible holy symbols.
editwhiletyping: Actually, remember in the godsmoot they could channel themselves through a high priest (don't know if it can be any priest who asks for the blessing)? Could be something like that.
Post by: Egan_BW on May 01, 2018, 11:52:17 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on May 02, 2018, 10:14:39 am
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23036570&postcount=115
Post by: Mathel on May 04, 2018, 11:40:14 am
As for Hilgya being Loki, I find that highly unlikely.
A) While Loki can transform into any creature or person, it is still 1 creature or person. Hilgya and her child are 2 people.
B) Odin and other gods could identify him if they tried.
C) He is locked up until Ragnarok.
D) If it was him, he would probably pose as someone, who could be there by accident, rather than calling attention to himself by telling the Order that he sent himself.
Post by: Lord Shonus on May 04, 2018, 12:10:31 pm
Post by: smjjames on May 04, 2018, 11:58:54 pm
In any case, I'm not sure they're allowed to even physically manifest themselves in the material plane, whether due to the Godsmoot rules or domain agreement where they can't block a clerics attempt at using magic of their domain and stuff.
Post by: Akura on May 05, 2018, 04:41:59 am
It's just as likely that baby Kudzu is the physical manifestation of Loki.
Also, what was thought to be a holy symbol on Kudzu's shirt is actually a zipper.
Post by: MrWiggles on May 05, 2018, 05:19:13 am
Post by: smjjames on May 05, 2018, 09:17:11 am
Oh hey. The second page in the comic, where the prestiege class, 'The Shadow Dancer' can use their ability. Are they going to make an apperance?!
What page are you talking about? the literal second page (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0002.html) or the second panel of the current one (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0002.html)? Not familiar with the shadow dancer prestige class either.
Post by: Rolan7 on May 05, 2018, 09:52:06 am
The last time the Shadowdancer appeared, the lack of shadows in this "stick figure comic" kinda crippled his most powerful ability. It would be a great callback gag if the Shadowdancer did show up here.
Edit: Here's (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0229.html) the comic where they make fun of the class, and here's (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0242.html) where he actually gets some shadows to work with!
Also, huh, they cameo'd in 535 as well. No shadowjumping though.
Post by: Enemy post on May 07, 2018, 03:06:45 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on May 07, 2018, 03:09:55 pm
Post by: scriver on May 07, 2018, 03:21:08 pm
Post by: Imic on May 07, 2018, 03:42:03 pm
Post by: Enemy post on May 11, 2018, 01:39:47 pm
Post by: pikachu17 on May 11, 2018, 01:44:34 pm
Post by: smjjames on May 11, 2018, 03:14:06 pm
Post by: TD1 on May 11, 2018, 03:17:04 pm
Post by: Hotfire90 on May 21, 2018, 01:39:26 pm
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 21, 2018, 01:43:01 pm
Post by: Akura on May 21, 2018, 02:28:56 pm
Also, Durkon's running out of minions, isn't he? I'm counting only four left in the room: Poncho girl, the dark-haired cleric of Thor, one that made her Reflex save against Fireball, and the one that appears to have dived under Roy's throw. There's one behind Roy in the last panel, but I can't tell if it's the one who survived the Fireball or a different one. He started with at least a dozen.
Post by: TD1 on May 21, 2018, 02:41:11 pm
Not that I buy the whole Loki thing anyway.
Post by: Egan_BW on May 21, 2018, 02:51:23 pm
EVERYONE.
Post by: smjjames on May 21, 2018, 02:59:30 pm
Oh, look who failed their will saves.
EVERYONE.
Everybody on the GitP forum seems surprised that Hilgya failed her save roll. Also. V and Minrah didn’t fail their rolls. And Kudzu, but that may be due to notDurkon promising to not hurt him.
Post by: Egan_BW on May 21, 2018, 03:07:32 pm
Post by: Enemy post on May 21, 2018, 03:09:41 pm
Oh, look who failed their will saves.
EVERYONE.
Everybody on the GitP forum seems surprised that Hilgya failed her save roll. Also. V and Minrah didn’t fail their rolls. And Kudzu, but that may be due to notDurkon promising to not hurt him.
I'm pretty sure Kudzu is safe because Durkula doesn't consider him a real threat. Also, Dominate is a standard action. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm) I think that based on Roy's attacks and the vampire's eyes, it's been two rounds. One the first round, Roy threw his sword as a standard action attack, then Durkula dominated someone. Poncho girl also fired a dominate on her turn. Then they all did the same thing again on the next round. None of the Order targets made their will save, so the vampires succeeded on 4/4 attempts.
Post by: smjjames on May 21, 2018, 03:19:04 pm
@enemy post: Durkula did promise not to hurt the kid. However, he hasn’t told his minions not to, which could be a pretty big loophole since Durkula only said that he would leave the kid alone. I suppose it depends on what flavor of evil Durkula is.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 21, 2018, 04:52:39 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on May 21, 2018, 05:11:26 pm
Post by: TD1 on May 21, 2018, 05:19:17 pm
Post by: Akura on May 21, 2018, 06:30:28 pm
I was wrong, V's Fireball only killed three of the vampires it hit. One in the very back of the blast, really hard to see through the flames, that visibly survived.
Also, did one of those vampires directly target Belkar's Protection from Evil accessory? While PfE doesn't stop Domination from hitting, it does stop the dominator from commanding the target.
Post by: Egan_BW on May 21, 2018, 06:49:09 pm
Post by: smjjames on May 21, 2018, 07:21:02 pm
Vampires aren't supposed to be trivial, no. Sure, they have a ton of weaknesses that never seem to apply when you need them to.
I was wrong, V's Fireball only killed three of the vampires it hit. One in the very back of the blast, really hard to see through the flames, that visibly survived.
Also, did one of those vampires directly target Belkar's Protection from Evil accessory? While PfE doesn't stop Domination from hitting, it does stop the dominator from commanding the target.
Hard to tell if that one actually survived or not. It’s not ‘visibly survived’, it seems to be taking the core of the fireball right in the face, with the bright core obscuring whether it died or not. I can just barely see X’d out eyes for that one, so, it’s definetly four killed with one succeeding in their dodge roll.
Post by: Lord Shonus on May 21, 2018, 07:24:03 pm
Vampires aren't supposed to be trivial, no. Sure, they have a ton of weaknesses that never seem to apply when you need them to.
I was wrong, V's Fireball only killed three of the vampires it hit. One in the very back of the blast, really hard to see through the flames, that visibly survived.
Also, did one of those vampires directly target Belkar's Protection from Evil accessory? While PfE doesn't stop Domination from hitting, it does stop the dominator from commanding the target.
The consensus on GitP appears to be that the item is fine, but it works by casting the buff when activated. The active PfE buff was dispelled, and Dominated Belkar has no desire to reactivate it.
Post by: scriver on May 22, 2018, 09:04:59 am
Post by: smjjames on May 22, 2018, 09:26:29 am
Can't dominate kitty
Or the raven. Though Blackwing probably shares the same will stat as V. They most likely ignored the kitty as a non-threat.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on May 22, 2018, 11:47:31 am
Post by: scriver on May 22, 2018, 01:09:26 pm
Post by: pikachu17 on May 22, 2018, 01:40:24 pm
Post by: Culise on May 22, 2018, 06:49:29 pm
Don't Forget their pwnage of low-level wizardWizards can beat everything.
Cats can beat wizards.
Therefore, by transitive property, cats can beat everything.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 22, 2018, 08:07:25 pm
Cats can beat wizards.
If a cat beats a wizard, the wizard did not beat the cat, and vice versa.
Ergo cats are not part of everything.
Ergo cats do not exist.
Post by: Reelya on May 22, 2018, 08:20:31 pm
- wizards might not exist. Since if a wizard beats a wizard, the winning wizard was also not part of everything. So, wizards who can beat everything are not part of everything either. Therefore wizards don't exist.
Also, if wizards who beat everything can't exist, then nothing beats everything, making nothing greater than everything. Nothingness is the least that can exist, so everything is less than the least that can exist, meaning everything doesn't exist.
Post by: smjjames on May 22, 2018, 08:28:24 pm
Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 22, 2018, 09:06:09 pm
Ergo one of the preceding statements is false.
Post by: JoshuaFH on May 22, 2018, 09:20:51 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on May 23, 2018, 05:05:26 am
It'd never work on the cat or Blackwing; the vampire's dominate works as Dominate Person, which only affects humanoids.Also Belkar's pet lizard, whose name I've forgotten.
He does still have that, right?
Post by: Akura on May 23, 2018, 05:29:55 am
Post by: Hotfire90 on June 04, 2018, 04:33:08 pm
Post by: smjjames on June 04, 2018, 04:46:38 pm
If they really wanted to protect from the gaze no matter what, they should have worn sunglasses.
Not sure why Roy's order to Belkar just before the gaze triggered for Minrah and not when Haley shot V. Maybe because Haley is part of the Order and Minrah isn't.
editwhiletyping: I bet Roy could use that to his advantage somehow since it looks like Belkar can't be ordered by the vampires (due to the protection from evil amulet) but is still following the order he was last given.
EDIT!: Spotted this on the GitP forum: Quote Originally Posted by Puschkin View Post
Woah, not looking good! Espeically that important heal getting disrupted. I have no idea how they are supposed to get out of this. Then again I don't know much about D&D rules. Do they have a chance to shake it off each round?
They have a chance to shake it off when given an order they find sufficiently objectionable.
I know it'd be an evil thing to do otherwise, but perhaps Roy could get Hilgya out of that state by getting as close as possible to her that any AOE spells she does would have the potential to hit Kudzu. THAT should be sufficiently objectionable to snap her out of it.
Or, alternatively, as I saw mentioned in the forums, Roy could try to reinforce Hilgyas hate towards Durkon and undead and how she's taking orders from both.
Post by: Enemy post on June 13, 2018, 02:19:13 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on June 13, 2018, 03:42:04 pm
GM: *Rolls* "You are now the proud owner of one human bard."
Poncho Vampire: "A bard? What's he do?"
GM: "Ummm, he has a pretty high Charisma score?"
Poncho Vampire: "...Okay, tell him to convince his friend to join us!"
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 13, 2018, 03:52:27 pm
Post by: NRDL on June 14, 2018, 02:23:42 am
Post by: Rolan7 on June 19, 2018, 11:47:02 am
Speaking of, 1125 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1125.html).
Post by: TD1 on June 19, 2018, 11:55:43 am
Post by: scriver on June 19, 2018, 12:54:59 pm
Post by: smjjames on June 19, 2018, 01:28:06 pm
Post by: Mathel on June 19, 2018, 01:37:48 pm
Mr Scruffy and the Raven are not dominated. As they are friends of each other, Mr Scruffy is not going to eat the Raven.
Post by: smjjames on June 19, 2018, 01:43:59 pm
That cat would so totally be gobbling that bird up, not looking concerned.
His eyebrows show plenty of concern.
Post by: Egan_BW on June 19, 2018, 01:46:23 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on June 19, 2018, 01:49:40 pm
It's a little weird how that translates to "stab the cleric", except that Belkar does have a history of stabbing targets of opportunity. Particularly when tasked with caster-defense, heh. And I guess for all he knows, the cleric is bluffing (I doubt he has spellcraft).
Anyway, I'm really not sure how this will play out... But maaaybe he cares about the bird too? I have an amusing but longshot theory that Mr Scruffy urinates on V, and Belkar snaps out of it because he really doesn't want to protect V from such a "prank". But that involves Mr Scruffy being even more intelligent than usual, probably.
Mr Scruffy is a normal, non-magical, non-sapient cat. Cats are adorable and occasionally affectionate, but if we're being honest, they're solitary predators and don't form "friendships" in the same way that humans do. If you die, it'll eat your body.That's *technically* true, but Mr Scruffy has all the Extraordinary (not Supernatural) intelligence that a PC often expects from their animal companion :P He's like Marmaduke: 1-2 INT, but practically understands Common.
Post by: TD1 on June 19, 2018, 01:54:30 pm
Post by: Darkmere on June 19, 2018, 01:55:35 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on June 19, 2018, 01:58:32 pm
More likely, the cat will be endangered or actually injured/killed by Belkar, causing said homicidal midget to snap out of it. Plus, his previous experiences with dominate would make his overcoming of this instance particularly cathartic, and allow the spellcaster to be healed.Yeah, though Mr Scruffy was already hanging out very close to V, so Belkar isn't going to even try to harm him unless he does something. I guess someone else harming Mr Scruffy could do it.
Post by: Egan_BW on June 19, 2018, 01:59:42 pm
Post by: smjjames on June 19, 2018, 02:08:17 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on June 19, 2018, 02:30:24 pm
Huh,
Post by: LordBaal on June 19, 2018, 05:07:43 pm
Post by: scriver on June 19, 2018, 05:08:59 pm
Mr Scruffy is a normal, non-magical, non-sapient cat.
But Mr Scurffy was the secret power behind the throne of Azure City for god knows how many years though
Colombia football match with Japan wasn't transmitted here by any public channels, even the sports one didn't. I wonder if its a result of the Colombians electing someone else instead of yet another comunistoid/socialist jerk.
Wrong thread?
Post by: crazyabe on June 19, 2018, 05:09:12 pm
Colombia football match with Japan wasn't transmitted here by any public channels, even the sports one didn't. I wonder if its a result of the Colombians electing someone else instead of yet another comunistoid/socialist jerk.Wrong Topic?
Post by: TD1 on June 19, 2018, 05:14:18 pm
Are you all feeling okay?
Post by: hops on June 21, 2018, 02:02:10 am
Post by: Murphy on July 01, 2018, 09:39:43 pm
Maaaybe? He has atrocious Wisdom for a ranger, being unable to cast spells (even from a scroll, heh) which I think means 9 or less. He could have a lot of points in Listen, but the third strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0003.html) implies otherwise. Loooong time ago, just thought it was funny.
Huh,hobbitshalfings do get a +2 on Listen checks though, you're right.
C'mon, Belkar having poor hearing is a subject of recurring jokes.
Like when he brought Roy to a cart of gophers when asked to track down a cartographer.
Post by: smjjames on July 01, 2018, 09:49:52 pm
Maaaybe? He has atrocious Wisdom for a ranger, being unable to cast spells (even from a scroll, heh) which I think means 9 or less. He could have a lot of points in Listen, but the third strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0003.html) implies otherwise. Loooong time ago, just thought it was funny.
Huh,hobbitshalfings do get a +2 on Listen checks though, you're right.
C'mon, Belkar having poor hearing is a subject of recurring jokes.
Like when he brought Roy to a cart of gophers when asked to track down a cartographer.
I could have put that one down to Belkar not knowing what a cartographer was.
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 01, 2018, 10:03:37 pm
Post by: Murphy on July 03, 2018, 07:19:28 am
I definitely felt there was a pattern with Belkar not hearing or improperly hearing things but they don't necessarily mean he is hard of hearing, just that he might not know what certain words mean, like in his line "You're a homophone!" And then there's the time when he gets deafened.
Post by: Reelya on July 03, 2018, 12:22:09 pm
After all, all three present party members failed to see the goblins, not just Belkar. So all of them failed some sort of checks.
Post by: Enemy post on July 13, 2018, 05:57:04 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on July 13, 2018, 06:03:52 pm
Post by: scriver on July 13, 2018, 06:08:38 pm
Post by: Akura on July 13, 2018, 07:07:30 pm
Durkon just keeps giving Helga more reasons for bloody revenge.That depends on whether or not she's aware that vampire and original are two separate souls/identities. It's a DC20-25 Knowledge(Religion) check apparently, and literally only one random cleric ever passed that check. Perhaps Hilgya is intelligent/knowledgeable enough to figure that out, and the Order probably told her anyway.
Post by: smjjames on July 13, 2018, 09:10:18 pm
I wonder if handing your baby off to a vampire is considered "against your nature" which would have given Hilgya a new saving throw with a +2 bonus.Durkon just keeps giving Helga more reasons for bloody revenge.That depends on whether or not she's aware that vampire and original are two separate souls/identities. It's a DC20-25 Knowledge(Religion) check apparently, and literally only one random cleric ever passed that check. Perhaps Hilgya is intelligent/knowledgeable enough to figure that out, and the Order probably told her anyway.
Yeah, you'd think the fact that she hates undead would have given her a bonus here.
Post by: Sergius on July 14, 2018, 01:55:51 am
Post by: Enemy post on July 16, 2018, 12:04:44 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 16, 2018, 01:09:41 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on July 16, 2018, 01:20:58 pm
Helga is probably a big part of it, but Durkon also has a play Burlew has been hinting at. I don't know what, but Durkula has a blind spot, and somehow this story is going to set things up (for Helga to strike, presumably).
Helga breaking the mind control would be the least surprising thing, considering the situation. ...Oh, no, it might involve Kudzu getting hurt though...
Post by: Dorsidwarf on July 16, 2018, 04:11:41 pm
Post by: Murphy on July 18, 2018, 06:20:09 am
Post by: hops on July 18, 2018, 08:20:17 am
Post by: scriver on July 18, 2018, 08:22:20 am
Post by: hops on July 18, 2018, 08:23:29 am
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 18, 2018, 08:24:43 am
Hildebraand.Gilibrand
Post by: scriver on July 18, 2018, 08:54:28 am
Post by: Imic on July 18, 2018, 10:44:39 am
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 18, 2018, 10:51:06 am
Post by: Enemy post on July 18, 2018, 10:53:25 am
Post by: Xantalos on July 18, 2018, 11:05:31 am
Post by: scriver on July 18, 2018, 11:13:04 am
Post by: DAPARROT on July 18, 2018, 11:29:04 am
Post by: Mathel on July 18, 2018, 11:41:13 am
Post by: scriver on July 18, 2018, 11:55:57 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on July 18, 2018, 12:03:27 pm
Post by: pikachu17 on July 18, 2018, 12:50:31 pm
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 18, 2018, 12:54:08 pm
Post by: Mathel on July 18, 2018, 02:10:39 pm
Post by: Akura on July 18, 2018, 05:00:54 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, I just noticed, but blinding spell that Minrah got hit with was the spell Ponchula was casting at the end of the previous strip. Why would she be casting Blindness if their primary attack requires the target to be able to see?
Post by: Enemy post on July 18, 2018, 05:49:08 pm
Post by: Reelya on July 18, 2018, 11:21:33 pm
This is going to sound horrible, but wouldn't the correct course of action be to throw the sword anyway, potentially killing the baby as well as the vampire?
Ah, no. Literary heroes don't skewer the baby to get the bad guy. Maybe if he was a hardcore anti-hero in a grimdark setting that would be possible, though it's usually to signify the MC's immoral nature which is later rectified through, for example, befriending and needing to protect a young boy/girl who then acts as their moral compass (think Terminator 2).
Literary villains, or un-reformed anti-heroes, use "ends justifies the means" as a rational basis for their actions, not regular heroes.
Post by: Egan_BW on July 18, 2018, 11:45:56 pm
Post by: smjjames on July 19, 2018, 02:25:25 am
This is going to sound horrible, but wouldn't the correct course of action be to throw the sword anyway, potentially killing the baby as well as the vampire? The baby would be doomed anyway if Hel's plan succeeds, along with literally everyone else in the world not on a different plane. It's certainly a difficult thing, though I imagine it would be a lot easier if Raise Dead/Resurrection works on babies.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, I just noticed, but blinding spell that Minrah got hit with was the spell Ponchula was casting at the end of the previous strip. Why would she be casting Blindness if their primary attack requires the target to be able to see?
By primary attack, you mean the dominate gaze? I guess if it failed once, there’s no guarantee it’ll work again. Maybe she’s out of dominate charges or whatever and did the next best thing to take Minrah out of the fight or at least made it harder
Post by: Akura on July 19, 2018, 06:37:44 am
Maybe she’s out of dominate charges or whatever and did the next best thing to take Minrah out of the fight or at least made it harder
Vampire's Dominate Gaze is an at-will ability requiring only a standard action. It does have a range of 30ft, so maybe Minrah was out of range - unlikely since she's still near where V fell, and when Haley and Elan were dominated they were behind V. Still, Blindness is an odd choice - the same spell can cause Deafness(the spell is literally called Blindness/Deafness) based on caster choice, which would be better given that she's trying to cast healing spells(deaf casters have a fail chance with verbal components), and Roy is giving verbal orders.
Post by: Enemy post on July 19, 2018, 12:00:16 pm
Post by: scriver on July 19, 2018, 12:22:14 pm
Do your thing!
Post by: Akura on July 19, 2018, 12:28:50 pm
Pretty sure they expected Minrah to get killed at some point. Still, that really stings.
Spoiler: Everyone's current state (click to show/hide)
Post by: scriver on July 19, 2018, 12:31:23 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on July 19, 2018, 12:35:08 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on July 19, 2018, 01:01:25 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on July 19, 2018, 01:04:29 pm
Edit: Except that the sunglasses were knocked off in the last comic, so nevermind. He could still be following Roy's order though.
Post by: smjjames on July 19, 2018, 03:17:12 pm
These are updates are coming faster than I expected them to.
Rich Burlew sometimes goes in a roll of fast updates, it just depends on well, whatever it depends on.
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 19, 2018, 03:23:17 pm
Post by: DAPARROT on July 19, 2018, 03:30:01 pm
Is it just me or does one of the risen in the memory look exactly like DurkonI think it's just you, Durkon has a different facial hair style than the bald beard guy(I think that's who you're talking about)
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 19, 2018, 03:30:53 pm
Post by: Akura on July 19, 2018, 03:40:07 pm
Spoiler: Theory (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 19, 2018, 03:42:55 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on July 19, 2018, 03:54:09 pm
Those are Sigdi's five close friends (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1088.html) (Shirra, Kandro, Thirden, Logann's Mother, and Hoskin) we've seen in flashbacks. After she had them raised, they became an extended family.Ah, that's neat. Good catch, I would have missed it.
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 19, 2018, 04:10:23 pm
Post by: scriver on July 19, 2018, 04:50:25 pm
Post by: Akura on July 19, 2018, 04:53:03 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on July 19, 2018, 05:24:04 pm
There are other forums?the Giant in the Playground forums
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 19, 2018, 07:46:22 pm
Post by: TD1 on July 21, 2018, 09:46:16 am
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 21, 2018, 11:18:57 am
Post by: smjjames on July 21, 2018, 11:27:39 am
I wonder what sort of Deus Ex Machina Rich is going to pull, though he's too good of a writer to pull an obvious or implausible one. We also still don't know what the point of showing that long memory was about, possibly foreshadowing or something.
Post by: Akura on July 21, 2018, 04:36:47 pm
Spoiler: Ideas for what might happen (click to show/hide)
Post by: FallacyofUrist on July 21, 2018, 06:54:37 pm
Spoiler: Mo' Ideas! (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 21, 2018, 06:59:41 pm
Post by: Dorsidwarf on July 21, 2018, 07:20:29 pm
Dominate only allows another save whenever the subject is given orders "against its nature".
Maybe Belkar will steal the baby and lob it in the air, durkula shouts to “get him” and hilgya makes the save she gets for being ordered to do something other than catch her kid?
Post by: Akura on July 22, 2018, 08:19:10 am
Spoiler: Some comparison (click to show/hide)
EDIT:
Spoiler: Another thing I just realized (click to show/hide)
Post by: birdy51 on July 22, 2018, 02:23:41 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Egan_BW on July 22, 2018, 02:36:51 pm
Post by: birdy51 on July 22, 2018, 02:42:49 pm
Post by: TD1 on July 22, 2018, 02:51:49 pm
Interesting that he calls them all Uncle/Aunt, must know they're not related, and never questioned why they were Uncles/Aunts (or was never told why)
Post by: andrea on July 22, 2018, 03:26:54 pm
Post by: TD1 on July 22, 2018, 04:15:45 pm
Post by: birdy51 on July 22, 2018, 04:27:45 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on July 22, 2018, 08:23:49 pm
Post by: JoshuaFH on July 22, 2018, 08:57:24 pm
Well shit. The bad guys won.
Yep, that's it everyone. Thanks for reading. Comic is done.
Post by: MrWiggles on July 22, 2018, 09:01:46 pm
I mean. Good run right guys? Claps around to the Giant. TPK happen, and maybe we'll cut to nother adventuring group whose goal is to resurrect the old group.Well shit. The bad guys won.
Yep, that's it everyone. Thanks for reading. Comic is done.
I mean whats probably going to happen is that Durkon is going to wrestle control of his body again, and make the vampire demon locked in his body and ressurect/heal up every one.
Post by: crazyabe on July 22, 2018, 09:14:43 pm
Post by: JoshuaFH on July 22, 2018, 09:18:42 pm
Post by: Enemy post on July 22, 2018, 09:27:45 pm
Post by: hops on July 22, 2018, 09:33:58 pm
XykonWho?
Post by: Cyroth on July 22, 2018, 09:38:49 pm
Post by: TD1 on July 23, 2018, 01:57:34 am
Post by: Xantalos on July 23, 2018, 02:40:59 am
Or Belkar getting raised as a vampire only his vampire spirit is functionally identical to him and the two of them become best friends.
Post by: crazyabe on July 23, 2018, 02:54:29 am
Belkar is literally the evilest, most vile creature in the setting.
if he gets vampired, his Vampire will be TRAUMATIZED by him.
Post by: Reelya on July 23, 2018, 03:23:13 am
Post by: TD1 on July 23, 2018, 03:49:34 am
Post by: Egan_BW on July 23, 2018, 04:56:45 am
Whatever Belkar or Detect Evil may say, there's still some good left. His hypothetical vampire spirit would be that, but with all the good sucked out, focused on his hatred for the world and everyone in it. It would be worse by definition, and utterly horrifying.
Post by: Reelya on July 23, 2018, 06:14:18 am
The random stabbing/desire to stab didn't give that away? The party has always been his only leash, though admittedly he has been developing an independent personality and seems at least to pretend (his word) to change.
random stabbing/desire to stab describes the good PCs in most D&D games. I was considering that Belkar's occasionally stabbing of people the other characters wouldn't stab meant he was CN.
This is a game about a band of wandering murder hobos who bust into the homes of various creatures then get surprised when the inhabitants want them to leave, then kill every living thing and loot the corpses. In fact, most "good" aligned D&D parties stab first, ask questions later, in case they come across a group of various races designated the "bad" races and they win initiative. Maybe that's not good roleplaying, but it's my near-universal experience with dungeon delving with a party: "you come across a room, six goblins are in it, what do you do?" => "we kill them all". That's when playing "good" characters. If the same people are playing evil, they're going to be murdering the other party members or the NPC tagalongs and stuff.
Post by: Criptfeind on July 23, 2018, 06:23:47 am
As for if the vampire would be worse then Belkar
The vampire spirit is your worst day, personified. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1007.html) However bad Belkar is, some of his days are better than others. Can you imagine what his worst day was like?
For a goodly person like Durkon his worst day is the day he was wronged by others and everything he knew or desired was turned to ash, creating a resentment and seed of evil within him that he buried deep down. For Belkar, who appears to be evil for the evilulz, that might be very different. Belkar at his worst might actually be significantly less evil then normal Belkar because unlike a good person like Durkon, evil doesn't represent what's the worst part of him, at least to himself! And his worst most traumatizing days might be when he wasn't very evil at all. Belkars worst days may very well be the days he spent under the curse, weak, sick, reliant on others and hallucinating. This lead to almost the opposite reaction that it did in Durkon, leading to a deep down seed of... If not good, at least realization that evil isn't really the best path forward for him. A vampire nurtured on those memories and feelings could come out very differently then a stereotypical good person turns into evil vampire.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on July 23, 2018, 06:41:29 am
EDIT: I was thinking that Belkar is the classic Chaotic Neutral type, however apparently he's Chaotic Evil.Wearing a ring of protection from evil sets him aflame.
Roy was told that without the party he would have been eviller 'than the offspring of Cruella De Vile and Sauron'.
Post by: hops on July 23, 2018, 08:59:20 am
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 23, 2018, 01:36:15 pm
Post by: Enemy post on July 23, 2018, 02:15:17 pm
Spoiler: Someone pointed this out. (click to show/hide)
Post by: Akura on July 23, 2018, 02:18:21 pm
Post by: Dorsidwarf on July 23, 2018, 08:31:18 pm
Post by: hops on July 23, 2018, 09:52:13 pm
They all get vampirized, but Durkula recruits the negative energy guys to save the world.
Oh and Roy is still alive and is weirded out + have trust issues now.
Post by: Sergius on July 24, 2018, 01:05:30 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: scriver on July 24, 2018, 02:24:22 am
Spoiler: Someone pointed this out. (click to show/hide)
Pointed what out?
Post by: Lich180 on July 24, 2018, 06:33:22 am
Post by: Maximum Spin on July 24, 2018, 06:45:27 am
Post by: Egan_BW on July 24, 2018, 08:31:33 am
Post by: scriver on July 24, 2018, 08:42:43 am
Post by: FallacyofUrist on July 24, 2018, 11:47:30 am
Post by: scriver on July 24, 2018, 11:51:06 am
Post by: TD1 on July 24, 2018, 12:28:12 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on July 24, 2018, 12:35:09 pm
To clarify, the spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dominatePerson.htm) lasts for days, and allows sleep/rest. The ability acts like said spell.
Post by: Dorsidwarf on July 24, 2018, 04:32:55 pm
Post by: Criptfeind on July 24, 2018, 04:41:47 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on July 24, 2018, 04:47:20 pm
I guess that would come into effect if the caster dominates someone, gives them an order, then has their own memory magically wiped, so they don't remember they have to do the concentrating thing? Or a GM could use it to fuck with a player who forgot to say they spend one round concentrating on the control, I guess. :P
Post by: Criptfeind on July 24, 2018, 04:49:34 pm
Post by: crazyabe on July 24, 2018, 04:51:04 pm
I find it funny that the target gets to roll a new save each day that passes, if you don't spend one round concentrating on the spell each day. Under what circumstances would you be so busy that you don't have the opportunity to spend six seconds maintaining control in your whole day?"You Dominated the Whole Bloody Kingdom and you DIDN'T Expect a few of the adventurers to break free when you forgot about them? Really?"
Post by: smjjames on July 24, 2018, 04:54:30 pm
Post by: Criptfeind on July 24, 2018, 05:00:52 pm
In 5E almost all spells with an ongoing effect are concentration and thus will end when the dead caster can no longer concentrate. There are a few exceptions though I believe, which afaik would also continue past death.
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 24, 2018, 05:45:08 pm
Wow that spell reads as ridiculously, farcically powerful to me, having only 5es spells for comparison hahah
The limitation is that the Will Save isn't that hard to pass.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on July 24, 2018, 07:52:20 pm
The limitation is that the Will Save isn't that hard to pass.And then the Order of the Stick basically started throwing ones left and right.
Post by: smjjames on July 25, 2018, 12:00:27 am
Post by: Dorsidwarf on July 25, 2018, 09:20:18 am
The OOTS universe is 3.5 though, not 5E. Of course though, Helgya, of all people, should have a high will save, and then there’s Minrah who somehow dodged it, maybe wasn’t in line of sight.Or I guess they didn't bother to dominate because she's a squishy and relatively low level? Or maybe just made the saves herself
Post by: Akura on July 25, 2018, 05:20:04 pm
Post by: Enemy post on July 27, 2018, 09:36:47 am
Post by: Xantalos on July 27, 2018, 10:23:10 am
So is he gonna be some sort of half-vampire thing now? And what let Belkar get back up?
Post by: crazyabe on July 27, 2018, 10:33:59 am
And what let Belkar get back up?Belkar, unlike everyone else was just knocked out, and Remember that Amulet of Protection from evil he had? his cat JUST dislodged it- and since it causes him so much pain, I doubt anyone could stay knocked out through that, Especially since it helped turn off a Vampires "dominate person".
Post by: Criptfeind on July 27, 2018, 10:36:53 am
He's probably still a full vampire, just has basically turned his vampire persona into a copy of himself.
Post by: Xantalos on July 27, 2018, 10:37:57 am
Post by: Scoops Novel on July 27, 2018, 11:00:14 am
Post by: scriver on July 27, 2018, 11:10:35 am
Post by: Criptfeind on July 27, 2018, 11:51:22 am
Post by: birdy51 on July 27, 2018, 12:15:43 pm
And aye. Durkon's worst day was losing her husband and then having to force herself to come to grips that he is gone, and happier for it. If you look at all those past scenes, she looks like shit. They ended up helping her as much as she helped them.
Post by: pikachu17 on July 27, 2018, 12:33:18 pm
Also, looks like he may have just Weatherwaxed that vampire.
Post by: Reelya on July 27, 2018, 01:23:03 pm
Is his mom's name also Durkon? Because otherwise I think you made a typo. Or think Durkon is his mom.
Also, looks like he may have just Weatherwaxed that vampire.
It's a new spin-off comic called Being Durkon Malkovich, in which Durkon goes inside his own head and everyone's called Durkon. All dialogue is now "Durkon? Durkon Durkon!"
See, this is the ultimate endpoint. There Durkula, and inside him is a Durkon. And that Durkon is projecting Durkon memories. That's three levels deep already. And the Durkon in the memories was remembering even earlier memories. 4 levels deep in Durkon. The end result is an infinite regress of Durkons, it's Durkons all the way down.
Post by: birdy51 on July 27, 2018, 01:32:28 pm
Post by: Sergius on July 27, 2018, 01:36:48 pm
In 3.5, no, afaik there's no rules that spell duration is tied to the life of the caster except in cases where that's explicitly the case (which it isn't for most spells of course) so spells continue on. Potentially certain self buffing spells would end as you turn from a creature into an object (what is a dead body in 3.5, creature or object, is actually somewhat debatable and an important distinction for some spells I believe) and thus no longer quallify as a target for the spell, but other then that they should just keep on past death.
In 5E almost all spells with an ongoing effect are concentration and thus will end when the dead caster can no longer concentrate. There are a few exceptions though I believe, which afaik would also continue past death.
(In 5E) Some spells become permanent if you concentrate on them long enough - permanent generally means dispelable but without a duration anymore, and don't require to maintain concentration. These would probably continue after the caster has died.
Post by: Egan_BW on July 27, 2018, 02:09:15 pm
Great page, all round.
Post by: Greiger on July 27, 2018, 03:10:10 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That essentially sum it up?
Post by: Rolan7 on July 27, 2018, 04:23:30 pm
Also those three sources add damage, not multiply. And I don't think they those bonuses would be multiplied by a crit, if a crit were possible against undead.
However, you're probably right that he's raging, and thanks for reminding me that he has barbarian level(s)! I missed that.
You're probably right about the amulet, too, though that part's weird. Mechanically pain doesn't cure getting "knocked out" (taking nonlethal damage). Oh... giantitp forums probably already said this, but maaaybe the pain triggered a rage, which gives temporary hit points, which *could* (temporarily) make him conscious again!
But yeah he basically is just really good at killing undead (ranger favored enemy), raging, and a high level melee PC with magic daggers.
Post by: Digital Hellhound on July 27, 2018, 04:25:09 pm
Post by: TD1 on July 27, 2018, 04:28:44 pm
Post by: Criptfeind on July 27, 2018, 04:36:54 pm
You're probably right about the amulet, too, though that part's weird. Mechanically pain doesn't cure getting "knocked out" (taking nonlethal damage). Oh... giantitp forums probably already said this, but maaaybe the pain triggered a rage, which gives temporary hit points, which *could* (temporarily) make him conscious again!
I think this theory has been brought up here before, but it's looking pretty possible and relevant:
On the Amulet activation waking Belkar up, I wonder if it has to do with how he was dominated. The vampire notes that he only needed a small push to act how he did when dominated, and what he does is... Sorta technically his job. "Protecting" V. I have to wonder if the vampires dominated him, and realizing that he's just such a fucking contrary asshole decided that giving him orders would be constantly going against his nature, thus giving him lots of new will saves with bonuses attached to them, and instead ordered him along the lines of following his orders in a very assholeish and counter productive way, which would be very with in his nature, and thus he wouldn't get more saves against it. You'll notice he's pretty much undamaged, and only go down when Roy orders him to stay down. So it's possible he wasn't knocked out at all, but rather just laying on the ground "staying down" still dominated. When the amulet is activated it suppresses his domination and allows him to act freely.
So what with what just happened to Durkon, is he now a dwarf again? Or is he still a vampire, just.... good?
I'm pretty sure he's still a vampire, just a good one now with his old personality (or rather a copy of it... Although a sorta academic point at that point) in control.
Post by: Egan_BW on July 27, 2018, 04:41:11 pm
Post by: crazyabe on July 27, 2018, 04:41:26 pm
But yeah he basically is just really good at killing undead (ranger favored enemy), raging, and a high level melee PC with magic daggers.Really, the only way he could be any better at killing them is if they were *Human* Vampires.
Post by: Egan_BW on July 27, 2018, 04:42:54 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on July 27, 2018, 04:43:18 pm
So what with what just happened to Durkon, is he now a dwarf again? Or is he still a vampire, just.... good?Pretty sure it's anyone's guess, and I'm guessing
It's certainly possible vampirism is so curse-based that the physical changes reverse now, but in that case I'd sorta expect him to die instead.
In fact that might be the actual outcome here. Durkon becomes a corpse (one last self-sacrificing slap in the face to poor Belkar). Hel's thwarted. But Durkon refuses to accept resurrection. He'll certainly be with Thor (he died saving Belkar, arguably both times) but some of the other dwarves here might be Hel-bound. Dunno if getting murdered before you can fight back counts.
... Heh, longshot, but what if the evil dwarf who was cooperating with her vampire gets chosen to be raised and join the party? That could be interesting.
Then again I don't remember if they actually have the diamonds anymore, there was some talk of spending them on something.
Ninja'd: Right, Poncho! But... huh, is she human? What's she doing here? She does look tall.
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 27, 2018, 04:43:28 pm
Baaaasically, just not the details. He doesn't have sneak attack (and it doesn't work on undead), and you can't power attack with light weapons (if he even has power attack).
Also those three sources add damage, not multiply. And I don't think they those bonuses would be multiplied by a crit, if a crit were possible against undead.
However, you're probably right that he's raging, and thanks for reminding me that he has barbarian level(s)! I missed that.
You're probably right about the amulet, too, though that part's weird. Mechanically pain doesn't cure getting "knocked out" (taking nonlethal damage). Oh... giantitp forums probably already said this, but maaaybe the pain triggered a rage, which gives temporary hit points, which *could* (temporarily) make him conscious again!
But yeah he basically is just really good at killing undead (ranger favored enemy), raging, and a high level melee PC with magic daggers.
He almost certainly stabbed Ponchula in the back with a wooden stake (the pencil-looking thing he's holding), which takes a vamp down until the stake is removed. He then cut her head off to "destroy the body", completing the kill.
EDIT: The "host cooperating with her vampire" was Ponchula, who was human.
Post by: Rolan7 on July 27, 2018, 04:46:30 pm
He almost certainly stabbed Ponchula in the back with a wooden stake (the pencil-looking thing he's holding), which takes a vamp down until the stake is removed. He then cut her head off to "destroy the body", completing the kill.Thanks, I see it now! Heh, I wonder if he has a decanter of endless water too.
Post by: Egan_BW on July 27, 2018, 04:46:53 pm
Post by: Criptfeind on July 27, 2018, 04:49:35 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on July 27, 2018, 04:50:42 pm
Post by: Criptfeind on July 27, 2018, 04:53:52 pm
It's also not really that important that we understand how he killed her, simply that he does so. So, in that sense, nothing important really happened off screen.
Post by: Akura on July 27, 2018, 05:05:21 pm
Spoiler: Possible hastily-done calculations on that kill (click to show/hide)
PRE-EDIT: Of course, 10 new replies before I finish...
Post by: Rolan7 on July 27, 2018, 05:16:43 pm
...Though it says those HP don't go away "first" like temporary HP, so I guess he doesn't fall back unconscious once the rage ends. Maybe. I don't really know for sure.
Pretty sure cutting the head off a vampire should take a full-round-action like a normal coup-de-grace would, but artistic license. Staking then slicing like that looks cool.
Post by: Criptfeind on July 27, 2018, 05:24:05 pm
On some barbarian stuff, the con bonus from raging applies to all levels, although more properly it's all HD (although characters with HD that don't match their level are pretty rare) since you gain your con bonus times your hit dice in health naturally already, so that's really how it works, +4 Con means your Con bonus is 2 higher, so you get 2 more hp per HD you have. (Also ninja'd by Rolan. Although to Roland, when it says they don't go away first, that means you loose that much hp when you stop raging, unlike temp hp, which if you have 10 temp hp, take 10 damage, then your temp hp spell runs out, you don't loose 10 hp because the 10 you lost were temp. With a barbarian, if you have 30 rage hp, get knocked down to 10 hp left, then stop raging, you instantly go to -20 and die.)
As for activating rage well unconscious, you can't do that as a normal barbarian, it has to be something you actively do. Which is sorta why I think he wasn't actually unconscious, just dominated into "staying down". However, there's of course plenty of ways (of course there is, this is 3.5, game of 1000 splatbooks) you could in fact activate rage when unconscious if you weren't a normal PHB barbarian. Alternate class features and prestige classes and such. So that's a possible (although imo unlikely... I think more unlikely then just "it's not part of the rules, but just part of the story") answer to how he got up.
Post by: Akura on July 27, 2018, 06:26:36 pm
Quote from: Possible foreshadowing what happens next?
Who knows? Some other vampire who was made-to-order for a different dwarf might've done as Roy suggested and rejected Hel's plan from the start.
Post by: Arcvasti on July 27, 2018, 06:32:26 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on July 27, 2018, 08:14:37 pm
I would say, that every good memory, double as acting good for the vampire. And the vampire aligment changed. Now now that Vamp didnt want malice, in the world and instead overall wanted to do the world rigt and had all of Durkon memory, there is no meaningful seperation. They will come to similar enough conclusions on what to do, that it wont cause debate.
I will guess that the Vampire will leave Durkon body on their own accord.
Post by: hops on July 27, 2018, 08:28:23 pm
Post by: Dorsidwarf on July 28, 2018, 12:21:22 pm
Post by: JoshuaFH on July 28, 2018, 01:39:46 pm
Anyone want to bet that this confrontation is what gets Belkar killed? Or is the arrival of his timely demise being pushed back to the Orders final hunt for Xykon?
This scene has already spent up a lot of different Chekov's guns, it'd be odd to have every prophesy fulfilled back-to-back-to-back in the same confrontation.
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 28, 2018, 03:49:15 pm
Post by: Dorsidwarf on July 28, 2018, 05:22:36 pm
For general interst, since not everybody here reads the OOTS forums, The Giant posted a thorough explanation of why Durkon's plan worked. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23256990&postcount=58)
Link leads to a blank page on mobile for me, can you quote him here?
Post by: Digital Hellhound on July 28, 2018, 05:25:09 pm
For general interst, since not everybody here reads the OOTS forums, The Giant posted a thorough explanation of why Durkon's plan worked. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23256990&postcount=58)
Link leads to a blank page on mobile for me, can you quote him here?
Here goes. It's nice of the Giant to offer an explanation this in-depth, I think. I particularly like his analogy of the 93 gallons, heh.
Quote
I'm not reading this whole thread for details on everyone's questions/arguments, but to try to give a broad answer to the thread title that doesn't spoil anything:
First, the main difference between Durkon's situation and other vampires is the speed at which everything happened. A standard vampire gets three days in the grave to absorb the lion's share of memories, and then takes months to slowly assimilate the rest. This vampire didn't get any of that, and so they were overwhelmed. A vampire who absorbs the memories in the "proper" way will not be overwhelmed. It could easily be argued that this would be a "balancing factor" in Malack's swift-rise spell, if I was going to stat it up for actual D&D play (which I'm not). And that's an aspect that Hel and her newly-created minion wouldn't necessarily know about, because it was Nergal's spell.
Second, unlike the other vampires, he needed to access those memories right away because he needed to impersonate Durkon. The Exarch is not going to be in as much danger of something like this because nobody cares what spirit is in charge. He can (in theory) just put off even looking at all but the most basic of Gontor's memories until this whole thing is over, and then sip them slowly over years.
Third, I doubt everyone has a single memory that could surprise and shock the vampire spirit like that. Because it's not the speech about "worst days" that does the real work here; that's mostly just Durkon psyching himself up by telling the spirit that they're wrong. No, the workhorse is the memory itself and how it makes the spirit feel. And I just don't think most people have a single ten-minute memory that completely changes the context of their entire life, before and after.
And finally, this would be the sort of thing that would take a very strong will to pull off successfully. Even if you explained this entire procedure in advance, I doubt someone like Haley or Elan could make it work. They just don't have the mental strength. They could show the spirit the memories, but without the unshakable resolve to back it up, the spirit wouldn't be as affected by the emotional content. In purely game terms (which I usually don't like to discuss but this is good to use as an analogy), Durkon is a high-Wisdom, high-Will-save character who possesses an unimpeachable Lawful Good alignment. That makes him unique. He may, in fact, be literally the single strongest willpower character who has ever been vampirized, ever. It's not a thing that usually happens to Lawful Good clerics in their mid-teen levels; Malack would have been much lower level (and not LG) when it happened to him.
The best way I can put this, overall, is that a human needs about half a gallon of water a day, or about 93 gallons over the course of 6 months. But if I poured 93 gallons of water down your throat today, you would die. That is not a significant design flaw in the human body that needs to be addressed! It's just a circumstance that doesn't come up enough for us to spend all of our time worrying about whether or not we are in imminent danger of swallowing 93 gallons. And if someone offered you a drink, you wouldn't think about, "But what if they suddenly whip out a fire hose?" before accepting.
So, is it a thing that could have happened to other vampires? Sure, maybe, once or twice, just as I am sure people have died from drinking 93 gallons of water. Is it common enough for Hel to mention it in her five-minute orientation of the vampire spirit before stuffing it in Durkon's corpse, when she has an entire scheme to explain as well? No. At best, she would have said something like, "Keep an eye on the host spirit, don't let it get control," and the vampire would have said OK. And then still walked into Durkon's trap because it was incapable of connecting the dots on its own beforehand.
(Also, fair warning: I'm not going to get into a back-and-forth on any of these points. If you still don't want to accept that this is a pretty rare set of circumstances, I don't know what else to tell you.)
Post by: Darkmere on July 28, 2018, 09:38:46 pm
Post by: Scoops Novel on July 29, 2018, 04:13:27 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 29, 2018, 04:41:45 am
Post by: Criptfeind on July 29, 2018, 07:25:03 am
A evil guy magically not understanding a (admittedly stupid even under that logic) benevolent decision just feels cheap. Cryptfiend, even if important people are more likely to afford diamonds, the fact that the OOTS didn't have any to rub together for a while kinda indicates this ain't a guarantee.
Nothing in life is a guarantee, but the reason they couldn't rez him wasn't the lack of diamonds, but rather because they didn't have access to his body, and Durkon isn't a high enough level caster to cast true resurrection. Despite living on a refugee ship set adrift in the sea looking after a fleet of refugees with presumably low supplies and lower hope, they managed to scrounge up a ton of diamonds. Which kinda indicates that it's not really that hard.
Post by: JoshuaFH on July 29, 2018, 07:35:14 am
I don't think I like it much. It feels exactly like a deus ex machina or some kind of way out-there rules lawyering for drama's sake.
Hasn't pretty much every single conflict in the entire comic been resolved with the help of rule's lawyering?
Post by: Criptfeind on July 29, 2018, 08:00:46 am
As for deus ex machina, I think that's a bit more a personal sorta feeling thing. For me, personally? It seemed like this was fairly built up, ever since we learned that Durkon still exists inside his own mind there was the possibility that he somehow regain control or at least distract the vampire at a critical moment, and once Durkon made the deal for one last vision it was pretty clear that this was going to be his big moment. And turning the vampire good (or shocking it emotionally for a big distraction) seemed in the cards since page 1126, 4 pages ago. (Although obviously that build up is easier to see in retrospect) This didn't come out of nowhere. The highest willpower character in the group, potentially in the setting, managed to overwhelm an evil presence in his mind with his willpower during a conversation they've been building up for a very long time. For me, that fails to make me think it's a deus ex machina, but your mileage may vary. It's not like he sat on a throne of alignment changing or something though.
Post by: Darkmere on July 29, 2018, 01:39:57 pm
The Deux ex machina is because it broke my suspension of disbelief and doesn't feel satisfying. All of this only worked because it's extremely unusual circumstances with a wonky homebrew rule extrapolation that doesn't really make sense to me.
It's not like he sat on a throne of alignment changing or something though.
That helps... the evil negative energy being was transmuted into a lawful good spirit because Durkon is just that amazing and awesome wow. I understand the story is built on rule of cool and rule of narrative fueled by tropes and stuff, but this one just feels like a bridge too far for me, personally.
Post by: Xantalos on July 29, 2018, 03:04:11 pm
Post by: Remalle on July 29, 2018, 08:20:54 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on July 29, 2018, 08:25:03 pm
So, surely someone out there knows how it works, but it's not exactly common lore.
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 29, 2018, 08:30:22 pm
On a tangentially related note, is it ever explained or handwaved why nobody knew how vampires work in universe? Surely somebody somewhere got resurrected after being vamped and told everyone how they were held hostage by an evil spirit in their own head. Is this just another instance of the party being ignorant in plot-critical lore?
Not nobody. At least one cleric in Gnometown knew, but was dominated into silence before she could fill Roy in. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0968.html)
Post by: Akura on July 29, 2018, 08:35:08 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on July 29, 2018, 08:40:22 pm
Thanks for pointing that one out, I didn't remember when it happened but it's a good point that *some* NPCs were capable of the knowledge check. Just not many.On a tangentially related note, is it ever explained or handwaved why nobody knew how vampires work in universe? Surely somebody somewhere got resurrected after being vamped and told everyone how they were held hostage by an evil spirit in their own head. Is this just another instance of the party being ignorant in plot-critical lore?
Not nobody. At least one cleric in Gnometown knew, but was dominated into silence before she could fill Roy in. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0968.html)
Probably mostly down to vampires being rare and hard to kill, so even if you run into one you probably won't be able to destroy it and attempt a raising. And even then, vampires are immortal so it's possible that the original owner of the body will be unable or unwilling to return.Yeah, vampires seem to be rare in this setting. Malack was likely the only notable one for a while, and he was unliving a patient, low-key existence.
So, surely someone out there knows how it works, but it's not exactly common lore.
Arguably vampires are rare in most settings, really, but in this narrative they would have been mentioned earlier if they were widely known.
Also, resurrection is a 7th level spell (so level 13 characters up). That doesn't sound like much, but the main characters tasked with saving the world are level ~15 or so. The rarity of high level NPCs is an extremely steep curve, particularly in a campaign where the world might end. Why doesn't Elminster fix everything? He's busy/doesn't exist, nor anyone like him, it's up to you scrubs.
So the chances of the occasional vampire being slain, much less resurrected, are pretty slim. If it happened, it might have been forgotten by all but the greatest clerics of the setting.
Sidenote: I bet the lead host of the Godsmoot knew exactly what was happening as he died.
Post by: hops on July 29, 2018, 08:42:10 pm
Another reason why OOTS isn't actually a tabletop campaign: the DM's internal cackling would be so loud that the players can psychically sense it.On a tangentially related note, is it ever explained or handwaved why nobody knew how vampires work in universe? Surely somebody somewhere got resurrected after being vamped and told everyone how they were held hostage by an evil spirit in their own head. Is this just another instance of the party being ignorant in plot-critical lore?
Not nobody. At least one cleric in Gnometown knew, but was dominated into silence before she could fill Roy in. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0968.html)
Post by: FallacyofUrist on July 31, 2018, 11:58:32 am
Post by: Egan_BW on July 31, 2018, 12:47:27 pm
Post by: smjjames on July 31, 2018, 02:09:10 pm
In a real tabletop game though, the party definetly likely would, unless the player wants to reroll. So, it's a matter of whether Rich feels it's right for the story.
Post by: Xantalos on July 31, 2018, 02:14:32 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on July 31, 2018, 02:17:22 pm
And narratively they are probably returning to the Godsmoot to resolve the Hel arc, and get an official ultimatum from the gods to FIX THIS by defeating Xykon before more harm is done.
So they (MIGHT) have the cleric necessary, and arguably "all the money" from desperate gods and clerics, but I don't think Durkon is coming back.
I called that he was going to die (I thought he would collapse immediately, the Giant did one better), and I'm doubling down on my call that he'll refuse to be raised. Even though the world is at stake, there are too many worthy dwarves who might be saved from Hel.
It would cheapen his death and his backstory arc.
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 31, 2018, 03:35:15 pm
Would the party use True Resurrection? Though I've heard Rich Burlew despises the mechanic because he feels that it's too cheesy or something.
In a real tabletop game though, the party definetly likely would, unless the player wants to reroll. So, it's a matter of whether Rich feels it's right for the story.
For reference, The Giant's views on True Resurrection:
Quote from: The Giant
And more to the point, True Resurrection is a terrible, narrative-wrecking spell that should not exist, as it has no real purpose for players who die in battle (as they can almost always be returned via simple Resurrection) and only ever comes in to play to undo plot points. I prefer to simply treat it as "not available" to everyone, and I don't want to waste any panel time explaining why.
And, as mentioned, they are fully capable of Resurrecting Durkon, assuming that they can either convince Hilgya to do so (she's cast spells of the same or higher level than Resurrection on "screen", but will need a lot of convincing) or else find an appropriately-leveled cleric somewhere around here. The ash from dusting a vampire is enough to count as "remains" for anything higher than Raise Dead,and Raise Dead doesn't work on corpses that have been turned into Undead in the first place. This, for example, is why so many Disintigrated characters have been hit with a Gust of Wind, and also why both Nale and Malack were killed in a windy desert - to make it obvious that they would be staying dead.
Post by: Lich180 on July 31, 2018, 03:52:02 pm
Post by: ChairmanPoo on July 31, 2018, 03:58:05 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on July 31, 2018, 04:01:45 pm
And hopefully comes back, maybe even fighting for Nale's goals in her own way. Keeping his memory alive.
Because it's confirmed that she's the trope of a succubus who falls for her target - but that doesn't mean she's weak. Arguably stronger.
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 31, 2018, 04:06:02 pm
Post by: Akura on July 31, 2018, 04:30:30 pm
Giant isn't entirely wrong about True Resurrection being overpowered. Technically it's even more powerful than Wish and Miracle. Both 9th-level spells, and require two castings to replicate a slightly weaker effect of True Resurrection. Actually it just replicates normal Resurrection, the first casting is used to re-create the corpse. True Resurrection also lacks level(or CON for a 1st-level revive) loss that Raise Dead and Resurrection have - which not even Wish nor Miracle can recover.
It's a thing in-story even though Giant does hate it, there's just only maybe one or two existent clerics who could pull it off. One of which is Redcloak.The other, by the way, would be the High Priest of Odin. Who is back at the Godsmoot.
Post by: Arcvasti on July 31, 2018, 10:33:44 pm
I also generally feel better about the whole "Durkon controls the vampire" thing now that it's clear that it only would have worked for a short time. Good Vampire Durkon as a party member would have been a step too far.
Post by: JoshuaFH on July 31, 2018, 10:57:47 pm
Post by: Darkmere on August 01, 2018, 12:19:22 am
So I guess Belkar just didn't notice that Durkon deliberately lowered his shields and Hulk Hogan'd his shirt open to reveal his vampire nipples, presenting for the heart stab?
A) He's Belkar.
B) He was Raging, I believe. Still, he's Belkar.
Post by: MrWiggles on August 01, 2018, 02:49:20 am
I also dont think there any means for Durkon to demostrate his conversation to Belkar, in the best time and less so when hes raging, pissed and grieving.So I guess Belkar just didn't notice that Durkon deliberately lowered his shields and Hulk Hogan'd his shirt open to reveal his vampire nipples, presenting for the heart stab?
A) He's Belkar.
B) He was Raging, I believe. Still, he's Belkar.
Post by: LoSboccacc on August 01, 2018, 03:06:03 am
Post by: Reelya on August 01, 2018, 09:28:09 am
Is it weak because the party isn't triumphant in battle or something?
Post by: smjjames on August 01, 2018, 09:41:59 am
There's also a remaining 'now what?' for the party, though at least Helgya is there to heal them up.
Post by: LoSboccacc on August 01, 2018, 10:41:33 am
Not everything needs to be ended by triumphant battle and not everything of course need to end in success: compare and contrast roy death.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on August 01, 2018, 11:28:25 am
Post by: Reelya on August 01, 2018, 11:56:10 am
This Durkon-inner-battle is the thing that has been building up to this point for the entire time that Vampire Durkon and Inner Durkon have been talking to each other. Remember Inner Durkon told Vampire Durkon that this memory would be the last he showed him, but he had to agree to watch the whole thing through to the end.
So no, this was no Deus Ex Machina, it's the natural conclusion of a subplot that was set in motion a long time ago. All the discussion and memories shared between Vampire Durkon and Inner Durkon was for this precise moment in time, it's thus the opposite of Deus Ex Machina. It also being the moment of Durkon's final death is extra poetic.
Post by: birdy51 on August 01, 2018, 12:38:55 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on August 01, 2018, 01:31:29 pm
The entire durkon arc with his vampire, has been about controlling which memories the vampire sees, durkon trying to convience the vampire of being good. The lack of bad memory for the vampire to actually draw upon. Durkon only means to influence the vampire has been through sharing memories. Ergo, the way Durkon was going to wrestle control of his body, is with memories.
Post by: Arcvasti on August 01, 2018, 01:48:17 pm
Post by: Rowanas on August 02, 2018, 09:27:22 am
Post by: smjjames on August 02, 2018, 09:35:27 am
Post by: Reelya on August 02, 2018, 12:46:45 pm
A very similar one was when the allied armies were facing the armies of Mordor at the Black Gate, and are on the verge of defeat, but Frodo happens to destroy the One Ring before they all get killed.
Post by: Rolan7 on August 02, 2018, 01:35:57 pm
Post by: scriver on August 02, 2018, 01:43:16 pm
Post by: Darkmere on August 02, 2018, 01:58:53 pm
I'd say Gandalf and the Rohirrim is still a Deus Ex Machina. "Gandalf leaves to go get Eomer seven chapters earlier" isn't enough set up to not make it one, in my opinion. I think this Durkvelopment is one too, by the way. I'd have no problems with it being one, though, but I also think it was anti-climatic. Which is, honestly, a rather separate issue.
This is it. The heroes are delivered from peril by a vague extrapolation on the author's part. They did nothing to facilitate it aside from Durkon who... guessed? at the proper solution somehow. And then died, the end. I'm guessing there's more to it, and he ends up with Hel so this all serves another purpose, but that's just a guess and doesn't help things right now.
Re: Anti-climactic... it feels hasty even if that wasn't the intention. Maybe it's the sporadic timing of the comic itself, but the resolution feels like "cutting the gordian knot" where some things have to happen to keep the story going or wrap up plot threads so the writer/author just Gets On With It Already. That probably wasn't the intent, but the pacing brought on by the plot contrivance to get the story where it needed to be lends itself to it, anyway.
Compare to the last season of Warehouse 13, where the writers struggled to resolve a cliffhanger and give the series closure in 5 episodes, or the final episode of Agents of SHIELD where they had to wrap up a season-long arc and somehow tried to resolve character threads in the last 10 minutes (thankfully this might be fixed since they got renewed).
Post by: Remalle on August 03, 2018, 12:25:11 pm
To be perfectly honest, I forgot Minrah died. Poor girl, I really liked her.
Post by: birdy51 on August 03, 2018, 12:34:22 pm
Post by: Madman198237 on August 03, 2018, 01:10:19 pm
I'd say Gandalf and the Rohirrim is still a Deus Ex Machina. "Gandalf leaves to go get Eomer seven chapters earlier" isn't enough set up to not make it one, in my opinion. I think this Durkvelopment is one too, by the way. I'd have no problems with it being one, though, but I also think it was anti-climatic. Which is, honestly, a rather separate issue.I mean, it depends on how you define a Deus Ex Machina.
In the movies, yes, the Eomer thing is a bit strange and not-really-explained, but even then they set up that there was a force of Rohirrim elsewhere and that Gandalf has a plan (look for me in 5 days and all).
In the books, it's set up even better---Tolkien mentions that a cloaked man on an incredibly fast horse has been seen galloping across the countryside, that Erkenbrand's men have been scattered after the battle at the Fords of Isen, etc. It's clearly established both times that Gandalf is doing something and that something has to do with saving Helm's Deep, because both times the Rohirrim and the Three Hunters *know* that they are outnumbered and risk losing the battle. It's not a Deus Ex Machina here because not only does everyone know that Gandalf is doing something about their problem, they also know about the problem before it happens. Oh, and in the books it's not even Gandalf who saves the day, it's the Huorns anyway.
Post by: Egan_BW on August 03, 2018, 02:08:47 pm
Post by: scriver on August 03, 2018, 02:48:14 pm
I'd say Gandalf and the Rohirrim is still a Deus Ex Machina. "Gandalf leaves to go get Eomer seven chapters earlier" isn't enough set up to not make it one, in my opinion. I think this Durkvelopment is one too, by the way. I'd have no problems with it being one, though, but I also think it was anti-climatic. Which is, honestly, a rather separate issue.I mean, it depends on how you define a Deus Ex Machina.
In the movies, yes, the Eomer thing is a bit strange and not-really-explained, but even then they set up that there was a force of Rohirrim elsewhere and that Gandalf has a plan (look for me in 5 days and all).
In the books, it's set up even better---Tolkien mentions that a cloaked man on an incredibly fast horse has been seen galloping across the countryside, that Erkenbrand's men have been scattered after the battle at the Fords of Isen, etc. It's clearly established both times that Gandalf is doing something and that something has to do with saving Helm's Deep, because both times the Rohirrim and the Three Hunters *know* that they are outnumbered and risk losing the battle. It's not a Deus Ex Machina here because not only does everyone know that Gandalf is doing something about their problem, they also know about the problem before it happens. Oh, and in the books it's not even Gandalf who saves the day, it's the Huorns anyway.
I don't remember enough of the book to recognise half of the names in there, let alone argue against it. The main thing I remember from the books was Gimli being a tree stump outside the walls. Also that part where Legolas surfs down the walls on a shield, that totally happened in the books too right? ;)
New one is up. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1132.html)
To be perfectly honest, I forgot Minrah died. Poor girl, I really liked her.
Yeah, she was cool. I wanted to believe she would be the new cleric of the team after/if Durkon died/unlived. Maybe Helga will stay with the team though? Probably not, but it would be cool too.
Post by: Greiger on August 03, 2018, 02:55:14 pm
Post by: scriver on August 03, 2018, 03:02:44 pm
Also remember that in the end it will be the Cat that defeats the Great Evil Ball of Yarn
I believe it is in the Monomyth
Post by: smjjames on August 03, 2018, 04:49:04 pm
I'd say Gandalf and the Rohirrim is still a Deus Ex Machina. "Gandalf leaves to go get Eomer seven chapters earlier" isn't enough set up to not make it one, in my opinion. I think this Durkvelopment is one too, by the way. I'd have no problems with it being one, though, but I also think it was anti-climatic. Which is, honestly, a rather separate issue.I mean, it depends on how you define a Deus Ex Machina.
In the movies, yes, the Eomer thing is a bit strange and not-really-explained, but even then they set up that there was a force of Rohirrim elsewhere and that Gandalf has a plan (look for me in 5 days and all).
In the books, it's set up even better---Tolkien mentions that a cloaked man on an incredibly fast horse has been seen galloping across the countryside, that Erkenbrand's men have been scattered after the battle at the Fords of Isen, etc. It's clearly established both times that Gandalf is doing something and that something has to do with saving Helm's Deep, because both times the Rohirrim and the Three Hunters *know* that they are outnumbered and risk losing the battle. It's not a Deus Ex Machina here because not only does everyone know that Gandalf is doing something about their problem, they also know about the problem before it happens. Oh, and in the books it's not even Gandalf who saves the day, it's the Huorns anyway.
I don't remember enough of the book to recognise half of the names in there, let alone argue against it. The main thing I remember from the books was Gimli being a tree stump outside the walls. Also that part where Legolas surfs down the walls on a shield, that totally happened in the books too right? ;)New one is up. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1132.html)
To be perfectly honest, I forgot Minrah died. Poor girl, I really liked her.
Yeah, she was cool. I wanted to believe she would be the new cleric of the team after/if Durkon died/unlived. Maybe Helga will stay with the team though? Probably not, but it would be cool too.
How many levels separates her from the rest of the team though? 10?
Post by: Rolan7 on August 03, 2018, 04:55:10 pm
I was sorta hoping for Minrah too, except she was too low-level. Helga makes a lot of sense... Loki doesn't even want the world to end. I don't remember the exact rules he's bound by, but it seems like he's passively encouraging her to help save the world. By not interfering.
Post by: smjjames on August 03, 2018, 05:25:36 pm
Post by: Imic on August 03, 2018, 05:30:11 pm
Post by: Dorsidwarf on August 04, 2018, 03:15:23 pm
Post by: Darkmere on August 04, 2018, 05:29:16 pm
I did expect at least a bigpanel or something for the death of Durkula. I can only imagine Rich was going for the anticlimax?
There was one. Durkula essentially died when Durkon memory-choked him, or whatever. The real victory was Durkon's, Belkar was just a convenient sword to nobly fall on, as it were.
Post by: smjjames on August 04, 2018, 11:46:41 pm
I did expect at least a bigpanel or something for the death of Durkula. I can only imagine Rich was going for the anticlimax?
There was one. Durkula essentially died when Durkon memory-choked him, or whatever. The real victory was Durkon's, Belkar was just a convenient sword to nobly fall on, as it were.
Maybe died in the sense of being knocked out. Durkon could still feel something there and there was a real risk of it returning. Besides, the vampire state did not change, so, it was at best, simply suppressed.
Post by: Zanzetkuken The Great on August 05, 2018, 01:16:02 am
Post by: Xantalos on August 05, 2018, 02:17:07 am
Wait, is it Vampire Spirit Durkon who was sent to Vahalla and thinks he's the real Durkon due to the memory thing, or is that the original Durkon?Given how he commented on finally being able to move his own arms and legs, I'd guess that's real Durkon, not Greg.
Post by: hops on August 05, 2018, 03:48:43 am
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 05, 2018, 04:11:39 am
Post by: Darkmere on August 05, 2018, 05:12:10 am
I'm guessing there's more to it, and he ends up with Hel so this all serves another purpose, but that's just a guess and doesn't help things right now.
Is there a betting pool going?
Post by: Imic on August 05, 2018, 09:46:40 am
Any takers for Hel? Or any for some argument between Hel nd Thor between the fate of his soul?
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 05, 2018, 10:25:51 am
Durkula will presumably go to hell, presumably to play some further role.
Durkon might or might not be resurrected
Post by: MrWiggles on August 05, 2018, 11:00:59 am
Post by: crazyabe on August 05, 2018, 12:57:12 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on August 05, 2018, 02:50:39 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on August 05, 2018, 03:26:34 pm
Post by: Tiruin on August 05, 2018, 08:51:57 pm
No. Blown awayI would love to re-read to see when this happened to them because there are so many story arcs and the titles...don't seem to be that helpful in pinpointing when. I can picture the environment but not the exact scenario here. :-\
Also I'm very, very curious. How does vampire...hypnosis(?) work?
Post by: Egan_BW on August 05, 2018, 08:54:23 pm
Post by: Enemy post on August 05, 2018, 09:23:29 pm
No. Blown awayI would love to re-read to see when this happened to them because there are so many story arcs and the titles...don't seem to be that helpful in pinpointing when. I can picture the environment but not the exact scenario here. :-\
Also I'm very, very curious. How does vampire...hypnosis(?) work?
Is this what you wanted? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0914.html)
Also, here's the rules for the mind control spell vampires use. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dominatePerson.htm)
Post by: Caz on August 07, 2018, 09:48:05 am
I doubt there will be much of Durkon's afterlife shown since they should raise him fairly quickly (don't they only have a couple days before the world is unmade anyway?) while Roy was dead for months and months (and spent a lot of this time climbing an endless mountain without noticing the passage of time O_o)
Edit: nvm, forgot that vampires turn to dust.
Post by: Rolan7 on August 07, 2018, 09:58:46 am
And yeah, having even a little of his dust is sufficient "remains" for a Resurrection, unlike Raise Dead.
Post by: Mathel on August 07, 2018, 10:00:04 am
They need Resurrection for Durkon because he has been dead longer than a day, was undead, and was reduced to dust. Let's just hope nobody scatters the dust.
Since he was dead less than 10*{Hylgias levels} years, Resurrection will work.
Ninja'd
Also, new one (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1133.html)
Post by: smjjames on August 07, 2018, 10:54:57 am
edit: Oh yeah, as mentioned on the GitP forums, the party went on a spending spree at the Gnomish city and are light on cash at this time. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1029.html Though other sources of cash may show up, another person also mentioned that Hilgya has a bunch of cash, so....
Will they be able to raise Durkon since he has been dead so long? I remember with Roy they had to use a higher tier of spell because he was basically a skeleton.. they even had to rearrange his bones after he was blasted to bits as a golem IIRC.
I doubt there will be much of Durkon's afterlife shown since they should raise him fairly quickly (don't they only have a couple days before the world is unmade anyway?) while Roy was dead for months and months (and spent a lot of this time climbing an endless mountain without noticing the passage of time O_o)
Edit: nvm, forgot that vampires turn to dust.
I don't think they know for sure just how long they have before Xykon's plans to do something with the world (not sure what he's planning to do with the gates, but it would definetly be the end of their world as they know it. Plus there's that revelation of another world within the Snarl.), they just know they have to hurry. However, as far as Hel's plans to end the world go, they seem to have just killed that.
Post by: Cattani on August 07, 2018, 11:43:58 am
Why is he worrying about enough diamonds? At the party's level, they should be overflowing with cash and diamonds.
edit: Oh yeah, as mentioned on the GitP forums, the party went on a spending spree at the Gnomish city and are light on cash at this time. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1029.html Though other sources of cash may show up, another person also mentioned that Hilgya has a bunch of cash, so....Will they be able to raise Durkon since he has been dead so long? I remember with Roy they had to use a higher tier of spell because he was basically a skeleton.. they even had to rearrange his bones after he was blasted to bits as a golem IIRC.
I doubt there will be much of Durkon's afterlife shown since they should raise him fairly quickly (don't they only have a couple days before the world is unmade anyway?) while Roy was dead for months and months (and spent a lot of this time climbing an endless mountain without noticing the passage of time O_o)
Edit: nvm, forgot that vampires turn to dust.
I don't think they know for sure just how long they have before Xykon's plans to do something with the world (not sure what he's planning to do with the gates, but it would definetly be the end of their world as they know it. Plus there's that revelation of another world within the Snarl.), they just know they have to hurry. However, as far as Hel's plans to end the world go, they seem to have just killed that.
Xykon plan on summoning and "controlling" the Snarl, remember? Except all the ritual pieces are known only to Redcloak, and iirc he said controlling the Snarl was impossible.
Now about Hel's plans, I don't really see how they've been ended? Sure, Durkula was destroyed but we don't know if ALL the vampires where there. As far as we know, they may have sent people to vampify the concil heads.
Post by: smjjames on August 07, 2018, 11:49:42 am
Post by: Egan_BW on August 07, 2018, 12:23:51 pm
Post by: smjjames on August 07, 2018, 12:59:52 pm
Still, if I remember correctly, the negative energy spirit is one that Hel personally sent (despite the fact that Malack was worshipping a completely different god) and personally gave instructions to, we don't know if she did the same for the other thralls and there's no telling what the two other vampires will do when the thrall gets removed.
Post by: Rolan7 on August 07, 2018, 01:05:51 pm
I don't think it's going to be plot-important, but she's an interesting exception.
Post by: smjjames on August 07, 2018, 01:13:46 pm
Post by: scriver on August 07, 2018, 01:17:44 pm
Post by: smjjames on August 07, 2018, 01:21:26 pm
If you mean 'where did the vampire spirit named Greg come from', Hel says it outright in http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0946.html
Post by: scriver on August 07, 2018, 01:26:56 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on August 07, 2018, 02:03:54 pm
Also, Greg (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1030.html).
Post by: Akura on August 07, 2018, 05:46:01 pm
Xykon plan on summoning and "controlling" the Snarl, remember? Except all the ritual pieces are known only to Redcloak, and iirc he said controlling the Snarl was impossible.
Spoiler: The Plan (click to show/hide)
Post by: Xantalos on August 07, 2018, 06:31:33 pm
Xykon plan on summoning and "controlling" the Snarl, remember? Except all the ritual pieces are known only to Redcloak, and iirc he said controlling the Snarl was impossible.Spoiler: The Plan (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Mega-big spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: smjjames on August 07, 2018, 06:38:28 pm
Xykon plan on summoning and "controlling" the Snarl, remember? Except all the ritual pieces are known only to Redcloak, and iirc he said controlling the Snarl was impossible.Spoiler: The Plan (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Mega-big spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: also big spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Xantalos on August 07, 2018, 06:55:43 pm
Spoiler: In response to above (click to show/hide)
Post by: crazyabe on August 07, 2018, 07:40:46 pm
Spoiler: Amusing thought/Potential Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: MrWiggles on August 07, 2018, 10:42:43 pm
Spoiler: Amusing thought/Potential Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Enemy post on August 10, 2018, 10:15:53 am
Post by: smjjames on August 10, 2018, 10:19:55 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Enemy post on August 10, 2018, 10:29:29 am
Spoiler: Theory (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rolan7 on August 10, 2018, 10:59:04 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Akura on August 10, 2018, 04:27:48 pm
Post by: TD1 on August 10, 2018, 04:29:33 pm
Post by: Akura on August 10, 2018, 04:45:09 pm
Post by: birdy51 on August 10, 2018, 05:42:45 pm
Post by: smjjames on August 10, 2018, 05:57:06 pm
Post by: Dorsidwarf on August 10, 2018, 08:57:02 pm
You know, if Thor just needed to talk to Durkon, it makes you wonder why Minrah got redirected as well.
Maybe to get into valhalla your last challenge is to get Thor drunk and use him like a ramp to get over the gates
Post by: Imic on August 11, 2018, 05:00:30 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on August 12, 2018, 03:51:04 am
And I think this is the last side story. The next story thing, after Hel is going to go wrap things up with original big baddie. Every character has had awesome plot about themselves. And Belkar has no background, because thats part of the meta joke about Belkar.
Hrm. Durkon cant enter Valhala, because he would be dishonorable, which means that there is a thing to stop the Snarl thta would require him to be dishonable, and Durkon will know for certain that this is required to save the world. He will sacrfrice Roy.
Post by: TD1 on August 12, 2018, 04:45:32 am
Post by: MrWiggles on August 12, 2018, 04:55:47 am
Or perhaps for some reason he simply has to (literally) go to Hel?If Durkon needs to go to Hel, then Greg is already there.
Post by: Akura on August 12, 2018, 07:06:06 am
Spoiler: Assuming (click to show/hide)
Post by: scriver on August 12, 2018, 07:30:44 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 12, 2018, 10:42:58 am
And I think this is the last side story. The next story thing, after Hel is going to go wrap things up with original big baddie. Every character has had awesome plot about themselves. And Belkar has no background, because thats part of the meta joke about Belkar.
Maybe the last story will be about Belkar. He's almost a foil for Redcloak now - Evil for a good cause vs. good for an evil cause. Maybe his backstory is tied to Serini's somehow? After all, they're the only two major halflings in the story, they must be connected, right? ;D
Post by: smjjames on August 12, 2018, 04:55:04 pm
And I think this is the last side story. The next story thing, after Hel is going to go wrap things up with original big baddie. Every character has had awesome plot about themselves. And Belkar has no background, because thats part of the meta joke about Belkar.
Maybe the last story will be about Belkar. He's almost a foil for Redcloak now - Evil for a good cause vs. good for an evil cause. Maybe his backstory is tied to Serini's somehow? After all, they're the only two major halflings in the story, they must be connected, right? ;D
What Redcloak is doing doesn't fit neatly into good vs evil though, it's good in the sense of Redcloaks selfless goal, uniting the goblinoid races, and making things better for the goblinoid races in general. Evil in the sense of the plan involving holding the other gods hostage and generalized evil under Xykon.
The other members of the Order of the Stick didn't have anything tying their backstory to those that originally dealt with the rips in spacetime, so, I don't expect Belkar to have anything tying him to Sereni.
Post by: Lord Shonus on August 12, 2018, 04:59:29 pm
Evil in the sense of the plan involving holding the other gods hostage and generalized evil under Xykon.
Also, the mass-murder, torture, and enslavement of any non-goblinoids (and even that's a recent development - he used to be perfectly happy slaughtering non-goblin goblinoids) he comes across. You can't pin that on Xykon.
Post by: MrWiggles on August 12, 2018, 06:45:21 pm
Post by: Imic on August 14, 2018, 03:39:00 am
Post by: smjjames on August 16, 2018, 10:19:20 pm
Post by: NRDL on August 16, 2018, 11:10:22 pm
Post by: Dorsidwarf on August 17, 2018, 06:38:39 am
Post by: scriver on August 17, 2018, 07:16:09 am
If I were a god I'd be lawful just so I could proclaim all my cletuvs have to turn in their spell requests only on the first day of the month, and at least one month before they the day they want them on.
Post by: Greiger on August 18, 2018, 11:41:35 pm
Post by: Enemy post on August 19, 2018, 01:29:10 am
Post by: Imic on August 19, 2018, 01:44:55 am
Post by: hops on August 19, 2018, 01:45:15 am
Plus I'd have my personal musicians.
Post by: Imic on August 19, 2018, 01:53:30 am
Azathoth is goals for me as a God because then I'd be omnipotent and also always sleeping.And people to do the paperwork, if you're asleep all the time. Lucky...
Plus I'd have my personal musicians.
Post by: NRDL on August 19, 2018, 01:56:46 am
Post by: crazyabe on August 19, 2018, 02:02:18 am
Post by: hops on August 19, 2018, 02:05:59 am
If you're Azazoth, your entire fan club is going to be dedicated to waking your sleepy ass up.Yeah, but either I'm asleep, or I'm awake and my fan club suddenly no longer exists.
Post by: Greiger on August 19, 2018, 03:58:55 am
Personally I'd probably end up being a knock off Paladine- walk around following low level mortal heros as a deranged- forgetful- and overpowered wizard for shits and giggles.Ah Fizban the Fabulous. I actually read the dragonlance trilogy first before I read Lord of the Rings and Hobbit as a kid, and I kept half expecting Gandalf to fireball a wall and blow himself off a cliff.
Post by: Reelya on August 19, 2018, 04:23:31 am
Quote
Visions of Wonder, edited by David G. Hartwell and Milton T. Wolf, and published by the Science Fiction Research Association, argues that Dragonlance is published under the "omnivore theory" of publishing. In this theory, the readership is made up of teenagers, and completely replaces itself every three to five years. This allows publishers to release subpar novels and still reach a small yet profitable audience.
That's exactly what all those godawful Japanese light novels (the Sword Art Online type of things) do as well. They're actually much worse than mangas, because mangas need to compensate for their audience aging as the story continues, whereas light novels are something where you can jump in and just grab a book, so they can rehash the same stories over and over with a constant target demographic of 14 year olds, who don't realize they're being fed the same pap year after year.
Possibly, the absolute worst novel I ever read was an old TSR Forgotten Realms one. The TSR in-house writers were truly appalling authors. R. A. Salvatore was the exception, but he was really just a lucky find for TSR.
Post by: Max™ on August 19, 2018, 07:44:14 am
Post by: Rolan7 on August 19, 2018, 09:45:14 am
Possibly, the absolute worst novel I ever read was an old TSR Forgotten Realms one. The TSR in-house writers were truly appalling authors. R. A. Salvatore was the exception, but he was really just a lucky find for TSR.Yeah I'm still reading bits of the early Drizz't books occasionally, and they seem pretty fine. It's edgy and camp, exactly like it's supposed to be, but the characters do have personal motivations and emotions. I was expecting the drow matriarchs to be one dimensional, instead there's some world-building intrigue. My expectations were too low.
Now I kinda want to read the original Dragonlance Trilogy for Fizban the crazy wizard, heh. But also, Raistlin's story sounds legitimately pretty cool from what I heard.
I got immunized to that stuff by being exposed to the Barbarians of Gor at an early age, goddammit if it's gonna be cheesy crap fantasy it's gonna have slave girls in collars or I'm out!If my fantasy is going to have slave girls in collars, it's going to make them fully realized characters and explain in detail how they internalize their slavery and - Sorry, was just surprised to see Gorean Saga mentioned. I only read a little because it's kinda... a lot
Post by: Reelya on August 19, 2018, 10:21:46 am
I got immunized to that stuff by being exposed to the Barbarians of Gor at an early age, goddammit if it's gonna be cheesy crap fantasy it's gonna have slave girls in collars or I'm out!
That reminds me of a fantasy novel I once read that had some ... very salubrious passages. Can't for the life of me remember what it was called or anything though.
Post by: Mathel on August 19, 2018, 02:53:55 pm
Post by: Max™ on August 19, 2018, 04:22:20 pm
If my fantasy is going to have slave girls in collars, it's going to make them fully realized characters and explain in detail how they internalize their slavery and - Sorry, was just surprised to see Gorean Saga mentioned. I only read a little because it's kinda... a lotYeah, the only thing I really kept was an appreciation for chokers.
Post by: Lord Shonus on August 19, 2018, 05:02:55 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on August 19, 2018, 06:30:39 pm
Probably not a bad choice, in this case.
Post by: Greiger on August 19, 2018, 10:38:59 pm
I never did finish all the Age of Fire books. I wonder how AuRon and Wistala are doing, Nameless can rot for all I care bout him.
Post by: MrWiggles on August 20, 2018, 01:31:47 am
My SO got into Gor, and was involved in a few Gor kink groups. In BDSM social groups, Goreans, folks who take Gor novels as a structure for life, are just bad folks to stay away from. Elitist, conserative, oddly a lot of TERFs like elements.
Post by: Reelya on August 20, 2018, 03:43:26 am
Growing up I loved dragons (they still have a soft spot in my heart) and I would read every book I could get my hands on involving them. Dragonlance, Hobbit, the Temeraire and Age of Fire series, Eragon. Couldn't get enough.
No Dragonriders of Pern series? Lots of dragony stuff in those.
Post by: Rolan7 on August 20, 2018, 04:00:39 am
Er yeah she was super into Pern, and a MUSH for Pern. When she wasn't outdoing me in Act Of War MUD. Or making cute levels in my own MUD, heh. Jeez, hard to believe that was less than two years...
As for Gor, I couldn't get into it because my "boyfriend" recommended it for bad reasons, a few years ago. Sure seemed interesting, though. Still got it. But it's 50 shades tier. If I want camp fantasy I'll go Fafhrd and The Grey Mouser, or Thieves World short stories.
right, back to sleep... nngh...
Post by: hops on August 20, 2018, 09:24:37 am
Post by: quinnr on August 20, 2018, 03:41:33 pm
What the fuck, you actually knew IRL people who played MUDs!?
Yeah, I don't even know anyone IRL who plays roguelikes, let alone MUDs!
Post by: NRDL on August 20, 2018, 05:26:03 pm
Not sure if it's been thought of here before.
Post by: Lord Shonus on August 20, 2018, 06:13:17 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on August 20, 2018, 06:42:59 pm
Post by: smjjames on August 20, 2018, 06:57:35 pm
It won't load right now, but there is no "Hela" in OOtS. The goddess in OOtS (and Norse Myth) is named "Hel", and Marvel added the "a" to the end for censorship reasons.
Because the word is too close to the word hell?
That link isn't loading for me either, it tries to load but then puts a 500 in the top left. I guess it's supposed to be a 500 type error.
Post by: Culise on August 20, 2018, 07:14:28 pm
I never tried Gor, though. Avoided it by reputation.
Post by: Rolan7 on August 20, 2018, 07:41:14 pm
I've got a copy of Darkover: Landfall, but I think it's a prequel...
What the fuck, you actually knew IRL people who played MUDs!?I'm 32 lol, and we had just entered high school.
But yeah, she was already playing MUSHes when we met, and I was playing MUDs. We mostly worked together on my own generic little MUD because I hadn't read Pern, but I did visit that MUSH a little. Seemed like a cool setting, dragons and sci fi.
Post by: scriver on August 21, 2018, 12:55:34 am
Post by: MrWiggles on August 21, 2018, 01:27:01 am
(I don't even know what a mush is)Its a text base multi user role playing game. Its the forebearer to modern MMOs. Muds, typically, play a lot like MMOs. Mushes typiclaly play more like a lived role playing game where you do a lot of improvisional story telling. It can be free form, or lots of systems.
Like for instance, have you ever wonder why npc creatures in MMOs are called mobs?
Its short for Mobile. Because for Muds, there was a point in time, where they couldnt roam a given area.
Post by: hops on August 21, 2018, 01:53:04 am
Post by: Enemy post on August 21, 2018, 10:28:42 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on August 21, 2018, 10:35:11 pm
Post by: JoshuaFH on August 21, 2018, 11:24:46 pm
Post by: Reelya on August 21, 2018, 11:51:14 pm
Post by: smjjames on August 21, 2018, 11:52:47 pm
Second panel, loved the 4th wall breaking joke there about how long Durkon's been dead.
I didn't realize it was a wallbreaking joke until I saw people commenting that it really has been five and a half years.
Post by: Akura on August 22, 2018, 04:54:13 am
Post by: hops on August 22, 2018, 06:21:32 am
Post by: DAPARROT on August 24, 2018, 04:28:33 pm
Post by: Akura on August 24, 2018, 04:50:14 pm
"Hop on, let's go for a god ride." I wonder how many times Thor has used that as a pickup line.
Post by: smjjames on August 24, 2018, 05:36:13 pm
Post by: Caz on August 24, 2018, 07:32:00 pm
Second panel, loved the 4th wall breaking joke there about how long Durkon's been dead.
I didn't realize it was a wallbreaking joke until I saw people commenting that it really has been five and a half years.
I looked up how long OOTS has been going and now I feel really old....
Post by: hops on August 24, 2018, 07:51:34 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 24, 2018, 07:54:53 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 24, 2018, 08:07:25 pm
Post by: smjjames on August 24, 2018, 08:16:26 pm
Post by: Caz on August 24, 2018, 08:41:55 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on August 24, 2018, 09:07:23 pm
Post by: Culise on August 24, 2018, 09:11:07 pm
Hel, on the other hand, does not want to see the Snarl released. She wants to preemptively destroy the world to reseal the Snarl. This will also kill all mortals on it, and since the dwarves will all die a dishonorable death, all of their souls will automatically default to her. She can then use this combined power to gain a commanding position among the northern pantheon recreation of the new world, and one in which the "trick" Loki and Thor played on her (in which she only gets the souls of dwarves who died dishonorably in this world) has expired.
As for the Snarl, no one knows. We know there's a world, but we don't know how it's related to the Snarl. We know the Snarl is also still on the other side, because it's already ripped through one of rifts left behind by a broken gate. Other than that, it's one of the big last-act mysteries.
Post by: smjjames on August 24, 2018, 10:04:14 pm
Post by: Imic on August 25, 2018, 03:44:01 am
What happened with the one that was guarded by nature or something, the elven gate? I think I recall something about it accidentially getting set on fire, destroying it in the proccess?There was a bit of red cloak beside it, but that has me confused, since why would Redcloak and Xykon destroy it when they both want it? It might have been an accident, but I don't trust fiction writers enough to do that sort of thing any more.
Post by: Dorsidwarf on August 25, 2018, 05:25:45 am
What happened with the one that was guarded by nature or something, the elven gate? I think I recall something about it accidentially getting set on fire, destroying it in the proccess?There was a bit of red cloak beside it, but that has me confused, since why would Redcloak and Xykon destroy it when they both want it? It might have been an accident, but I don't trust fiction writers enough to do that sort of thing any more.
What happened at Lirian's Gate is a main part of the xykon+redcloak prequel comic, Start Of Darkness (which also revealed that the MitD is spelled to eat Redcloak if he ever betrays xykon as well as some hints as to its identity). Its pretty complex but ultimately boils down to Team Evil having used a fire spell to defeat lirian's defenses, not realising the gate was literally bound to the local living trees, which panicked when they caught fire and shattered the Gate.
Post by: Imic on August 25, 2018, 07:40:51 am
Ah, that makes much more sense.What happened with the one that was guarded by nature or something, the elven gate? I think I recall something about it accidentially getting set on fire, destroying it in the proccess?There was a bit of red cloak beside it, but that has me confused, since why would Redcloak and Xykon destroy it when they both want it? It might have been an accident, but I don't trust fiction writers enough to do that sort of thing any more.
*Croses another potantial plot hole off the list*
This man is bleeding me dry...
What happened at Lirian's Gate is a main part of the xykon+redcloak prequel comic, Start Of Darkness (which also revealed that the MitD is spelled to eat Redcloak if he ever betrays xykon as well as some hints as to its identity). Its pretty complex but ultimately boils down to Team Evil having used a fire spell to defeat lirian's defenses, not realising the gate was literally bound to the local living trees, which panicked when they caught fire and shattered the Gate.
Post by: smjjames on August 25, 2018, 09:18:51 am
Post by: MrWiggles on August 25, 2018, 09:34:21 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on August 25, 2018, 10:44:04 pm
What are the hints to the monster under the umbrella?
Here's an exhaustive link, with the most recent speculation.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?563198-MitD-XI-A-good-man
Post by: Dorsidwarf on August 26, 2018, 07:47:36 am
What are the hints to the monster under the umbrella?
Here's an exhaustive link, with the most recent speculation.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?563198-MitD-XI-A-good-man
Caution I would avoid actually reading the guesses in the thread cause they’re nauseatingly exhaustive
Post by: Rolan7 on August 29, 2018, 07:10:49 pm
Heh, yeah "nauseatingly exhaustive" is a good summary. Most of the guesses were things I'd never heard of. It's not something accessible like a mere captured angel, unless it's some very obscure type. I think they didn't rule out slaad? It's a very difficult question due to the sheer size of the DND's accumulated bestiary.What are the hints to the monster under the umbrella?
Here's an exhaustive link, with the most recent speculation.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?563198-MitD-XI-A-good-man
Caution I would avoid actually reading the guesses in the thread cause they’re nauseatingly exhaustive
Post by: SOLDIER First on August 29, 2018, 07:25:39 pm
Post by: Dorsidwarf on August 29, 2018, 07:26:28 pm
Post by: Lich180 on August 29, 2018, 07:47:56 pm
New one
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 29, 2018, 08:16:07 pm
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1138.html (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1138.html)(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/000/128/slowpoke.jpg)
New one
Post by: smjjames on August 29, 2018, 08:22:58 pm
Also, the mention of 'being a great place to stash stuff you don't want others to find', I assume he is talking about more than just Xykon's fortress in the Astral Plane?
Post by: Rolan7 on August 29, 2018, 08:31:17 pm
Going all meta there, though I bet it's going to be essential to understanding the snarl in some way.Maybe. I think the Astral Plane, at least as Thor is describing it, is contained within the outer planes (the afterlives), connecting the outer planes to the Prime Material and presumably the elemental planes of fire and ranch dressing etc.
Also, the mention of 'being a great place to stash stuff you don't want others to find', I assume he is talking about more than just Xykon's fortress in the Astral Plane?
The Snarl, whatever it is, is cut off from all the planes... yet imprisoned by the Material Plane. I've always considered it a Far Realms thing because of that. "Outside of existence" yet "sealed by existence", with portals that don't follow the rules of "normal" planar travel.
It's both beyond yet inside, and other fun paradoxes I'm sure.
@ChairmanPoo
I *love* that pokeman meme but shhh it's fine. My link was easy to miss, as evidenced by the fact that at least one person missed it (;
Post by: Enemy post on September 05, 2018, 11:51:23 am
Post by: birdy51 on September 05, 2018, 11:53:38 am
Post by: Xantalos on September 05, 2018, 11:54:07 am
Seems the game's been going on a tad longer than we thought. Explains the mostly flippant attitude towards it the gods have.
Post by: Madman198237 on September 05, 2018, 11:55:06 am
Post by: TD1 on September 05, 2018, 11:55:24 am
Ye very, very naughty gods.
Post by: smjjames on September 05, 2018, 12:08:06 pm
Theres gotta be millions or even billions of them, meaning that they've been going at it for eons. Also gives a sense of futility, as if it's inevitable that the Snarl will destroy the world.
Doesn't explain the apparent planet inside the Snarl, maybe it's the embryo of the next world? Given the cycle of creation and destruction, it makes some sense for the seed of the next universe to be inside the Snarl.
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 05, 2018, 02:52:08 pm
Talk about multiverses, like every DnD world created and played and completed, and we're just seeing a fraction of all of them.
Theres gotta be millions or even billions of them, meaning that they've been going at it for eons. Also gives a sense of futility, as if it's inevitable that the Snarl will destroy the world.
So is the implication that every time people play a game of DnD and then finish it, once the players are no longer involved, the Snarl destroys it? Or would that be too "meta" for Rich's tastes?
Post by: smjjames on September 05, 2018, 03:10:32 pm
Last I checked there may have been a few who made a similar meta observation on the GitP forum, but it's not a major line of discussion.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 05, 2018, 03:15:27 pm
https://goblinscomic.com/comic/quotmudquot (https://goblinscomic.com/comic/quotmudquot)
...Except the OotS version manages to be infinitely more grimdark than the Goblins version. Wasn't expecting that, really.
Post by: NRDL on September 05, 2018, 05:33:40 pm
Post by: smjjames on September 05, 2018, 05:40:11 pm
I'd get why the first and maybe second one were blank (the first one lasted four minutes, for one), but why have the rest of them blank?
Post by: Mephansteras on September 05, 2018, 05:47:19 pm
Post by: Dorsidwarf on September 05, 2018, 06:15:02 pm
Theres a layering error in panel 7 too though.
edit: This actually raises an interesting point... the gods can beat the snarl, and handily at that. They... might not be afraid of it on a personal level like we've been told. They've clearly beaten it millions and millions if not billions of times, and I doubt there were millions of pantheons to be killed like the
This probbably has some serious implications for Redcloak and the Dark One's plans.
Post by: Arcvasti on September 05, 2018, 06:38:28 pm
Post by: smjjames on September 05, 2018, 06:47:40 pm
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 05, 2018, 06:48:51 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on September 05, 2018, 07:01:36 pm
Post by: Criptfeind on September 05, 2018, 09:10:24 pm
They can only cage the Snarl because it's mentally incapable of recognizing the fact that it's being trapped and because they have all these threads lying around on the Material Plane. Even then, they can only do that since they're safe from the Snarl on the Outer Planes. The Dark One's plan would let the Snarl loose on the Outer Planes, which would remove those advantages.
Still, with this number of previous worlds it's hard to imagine this situation hasn't come up before, not only once but many many times. Which would imply it's not really that big of a deal and the gods can handle it if it happens.
Post by: Lord Shonus on September 05, 2018, 09:25:59 pm
Keep in mind that we don't know how long most of these worlds lasted, only that World 2 lasted for 4 years and the current world is well into the second millennium. We have no way to know if the lifespan of the worlds was a steady improvement as the gods got better, or if they all lasted a really short time until the most recent one.
Post by: Reelya on September 05, 2018, 09:28:38 pm
Theres a layering error in panel 7 too though.
Not sure what you mean by panel 7 there, however in the one I count as panel 6, Thor is missing his aura.
Post by: crazyabe on September 05, 2018, 09:31:12 pm
In panel seven Thor's arm is above his glove's cuff.
Post by: Sensei on September 05, 2018, 09:58:09 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/5ltdBKK.png)
His arm not connecting with his hand has got to do with how seeing the monument makes him feel beside himself, you see. His godly body can express this emotion by being beside his hand.
Post by: Rolan7 on September 05, 2018, 10:05:02 pm
Naturally Thor will have lighting/crack glitches.
Post by: Sensei on September 05, 2018, 10:08:59 pm
Post by: Imic on September 06, 2018, 04:02:36 am
Because they might be the next world to be destroyed.
In endless succession.
Post by: SOLDIER First on September 06, 2018, 07:45:18 am
Post by: scriver on September 06, 2018, 07:51:29 am
You're all just not picking up on the subtle symbolism given by Thor's aura being suppressed. You're be kicking yourselves for not getting it when Rich spells it out later. Oh yeah, the arm is probably symbolism too. :P
(https://i.imgur.com/5ltdBKK.png)
His arm not connecting with his hand has got to do with how seeing the monument makes him feel beside himself, you see. His godly body can express this emotion by being beside his hand.
There's also the layering error where Thor's mouth appears to be on the outside of his beard
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 06, 2018, 11:34:37 am
Aaaand now we know why the gods can’t tell mortals about the Snarl.Statistically it's not might bebut will be.
Because they might be the next world to be destroyed.
In endless succession.
It's not surprising they keep their mouths shut about it.
That said, if there were rifts that formed, does that mean the Snarl was already part-way through breaking down it's prison?
Post by: Max™ on September 06, 2018, 12:49:49 pm
My highschool girlfriend - literally 2001, Freshman, and showed me secrets in Descent 1 deathmatch -Yeah, it's pretty goddamn cheesy stuff, I could tell this at like... 7 or 8 maybe?
Er yeah she was super into Pern, and a MUSH for Pern. When she wasn't outdoing me in Act Of War MUD. Or making cute levels in my own MUD, heh. Jeez, hard to believe that was less than two years...
As for Gor, I couldn't get into it because my "boyfriend" recommended it for bad reasons, a few years ago. Sure seemed interesting, though. Still got it. But it's 50 shades tier. If I want camp fantasy I'll go Fafhrd and The Grey Mouser, or Thieves World short stories.
right, back to sleep... nngh...
Still got a soft (or, err.. hard) spot for chokers, the blowjob black belt as they say.
Pern inspired a weird sort of eye-rolling revulsion I only later identified as my being the anti-furry.
Post by: Sensei on September 06, 2018, 05:31:24 pm
I don't think you're missing much.
Post by: Reelya on September 07, 2018, 01:09:58 am
Pern inspired a weird sort of eye-rolling revulsion I only later identified as my being the anti-furry.
I'm not really sure why it would be a furry thing, given that there are no non-human humanoids at all in the setting? Or is it that the furry fans are often people who read the Pern novels or something?
Post by: Lord Shonus on September 07, 2018, 01:23:24 am
Post by: Imic on September 07, 2018, 02:56:00 am
Quote
The Gor novels have been criticized for their focus on relationships between dominant men and submissive women, the latter often in positions of slavery. The Encyclopedia of Fantasy has stated that the first several books are "passable exercises" of Edgar Rice Burroughs style fiction while "later volumes degenerate into extremely sexist, sadomasochistic pornography involving the ritual humiliation of women, and as a result have caused widespread offence".[8][16] Science fiction/fantasy author Michael Moorcock has suggested that the Gor novels should be placed on the top shelves of bookstores, saying, "I’m not for censorship but I am for strategies which marginalize stuff that works to objectify women and suggests women enjoy being beaten."[17]
I don't think you're missing much.+1
Post by: TD1 on September 07, 2018, 03:21:46 am
Lol.
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 07, 2018, 05:17:51 am
I dont have strong feelings about Michael Moorcock otherwise mind you. I think he's passable but derivative, like most run of the mill fantasy writers, and therefore I found his indignation at Andrzej Sapkowski hypocritical (if anything, I found the latter more innovative overall).
Never read Gor, did hear it was crappy.
Post by: hops on September 07, 2018, 08:08:57 am
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 07, 2018, 09:07:08 am
To his credit by the end of the fiasco he kind of apologized
Anyways
Post by: Hotfire90 on September 12, 2018, 12:33:36 pm
Post by: smjjames on September 12, 2018, 12:46:03 pm
Post by: Imic on September 12, 2018, 01:12:37 pm
Quote
I mean, obviously we were scraping the bottom of the barrel when we came up wjth “Self aware stixk figure fantasy parody.”Out of all the incredible quotes that have come out of this, this single quote has to be the best.
Post by: Mephansteras on September 12, 2018, 01:18:23 pm
Post by: Dorsidwarf on September 12, 2018, 02:07:07 pm
Also looks like the current world really is special in some way beyond "the oots are on it so it has to end well"
Post by: scriver on September 12, 2018, 02:08:08 pm
Post by: DAPARROT on September 12, 2018, 02:15:59 pm
I knew we werent gonna get to meet thor without the auto-responder getting brought up.I think he's talking about the gates, which kept the world intact for quite a while after the rifts started appearing
Also looks like the current world really is special in some way beyond "the oots are on it so it has to end well"
Post by: nogoodnames on September 12, 2018, 05:11:46 pm
...Unless his real plan was to trick Thor into an unwinnable situation and sow chaos amongst the gods, which I'll admit is pretty in-character.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 12, 2018, 05:13:36 pm
Post by: Felissan on September 12, 2018, 06:05:55 pm
Post by: NRDL on September 12, 2018, 06:07:32 pm
Post by: Xantalos on September 12, 2018, 11:08:02 pm
Is nobody else focused on the fact that this page (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0301.html) is actually canon now? I don't wanna feel lonely here.My god, there's continuity in it! The blue striped candy thing trained, grew a 5 o'clock shadow, and took revenge on Pizza for killing his pal Milk Duds.
Post by: hops on September 13, 2018, 01:40:20 am
Only a mouthless eldritch abomination wouldn't know what soda is.Is nobody else focused on the fact that this page (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0301.html) is actually canon now? I don't wanna feel lonely here.My god, there's continuity in it! The blue striped candy thing trained, grew a 5 o'clock shadow, and took revenge on Pizza for killing his pal Milk Duds.
Post by: SOLDIER First on September 13, 2018, 08:09:26 am
Post by: MidnightJaguar on September 13, 2018, 12:14:32 pm
Post by: scriver on September 13, 2018, 12:16:53 pm
Also soda water is something you clean yourself with, everybody knows that
Post by: Xantalos on September 13, 2018, 12:22:40 pm
I don't know what you mean! I too am a human individual that requires hydration to sustain their bodily existence.Only a mouthless eldritch abomination wouldn't know what soda is.Is nobody else focused on the fact that this page (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0301.html) is actually canon now? I don't wanna feel lonely here.My god, there's continuity in it! The blue striped candy thing trained, grew a 5 o'clock shadow, and took revenge on Pizza for killing his pal Milk Duds.
but no seriously the fuck is soda
Post by: Lord Shonus on September 13, 2018, 12:43:18 pm
Post by: Imic on September 13, 2018, 04:32:43 pm
Soda.
Fizzy Drinks.
Soda.
The main difference is that one term is infinitely better than the other.
Post by: Loud Whispers on September 13, 2018, 04:39:00 pm
Post by: RedKing on September 13, 2018, 04:42:03 pm
Fizzy drinks.And yet, both pale next to "soft drink".
Soda.
Fizzy Drinks.
Soda.
The main difference is that one term is infinitely better than the other.
Post by: Rolan7 on September 13, 2018, 04:42:37 pm
Post by: Dorsidwarf on September 13, 2018, 06:53:17 pm
Post by: hops on September 13, 2018, 06:56:56 pm
Personally I reject all inferior terms in favour of “teeth hurting juice”oof owie my teeth
Post by: scriver on September 13, 2018, 08:03:33 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 14, 2018, 12:23:00 am
This episode had a surprising amount of callbacks to the very early days of the comic! Well, two at least.
Post by: Greiger on September 14, 2018, 12:42:57 am
Post by: Mathel on September 14, 2018, 10:02:02 am
Given how many times the world has been destroyed, the deal with Hel seems pretty short sighted now. Either Loki didn't realize that everyone dying due to the gods unraveling creation would count as dishonorable, or he was hoping that this time the Snarl would break out and devour all the dwarf souls before Hel could collect.
...Unless his real plan was to trick Thor into an unwinnable situation and sow chaos amongst the gods, which I'll admit is pretty in-character.
I do not know about that, but I just realised something. Dwarves do not live forever. I looked it up on D&D wiki and apparently, their natural livespan is between 250 and 450 years (mountain dwarves).
The world is 1184 years old.
Assuming dwarves are fertile until they start being old (188 years), there were at least 7 generations of dwarves, including the current one, probably more. At least 4 of these generations are dead. And that is with dwarves only giving birth just before their 188th year and dying at their 450th year.
If 90% of the dead dwarves died honorably (There would be some that failed to do so, but most would, knowing that if they do not, they will belong to Hel), even Hel cashing in all the current Dwarven souls now may not make her powerful enough to beat all the other gods.
But the longer she waits, the worse it becomes for her. The number of dead keeps increasing, and most of them die honorably.
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 14, 2018, 12:12:40 pm
We should meet some time and talk about our internal skeletons!I don't know what you mean! I too am a human individual that requires hydration to sustain their bodily existence.Only a mouthless eldritch abomination wouldn't know what soda is.Is nobody else focused on the fact that this page (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0301.html) is actually canon now? I don't wanna feel lonely here.My god, there's continuity in it! The blue striped candy thing trained, grew a 5 o'clock shadow, and took revenge on Pizza for killing his pal Milk Duds.
Post by: Lord Shonus on September 14, 2018, 12:24:07 pm
Given how many times the world has been destroyed, the deal with Hel seems pretty short sighted now. Either Loki didn't realize that everyone dying due to the gods unraveling creation would count as dishonorable, or he was hoping that this time the Snarl would break out and devour all the dwarf souls before Hel could collect.
...Unless his real plan was to trick Thor into an unwinnable situation and sow chaos amongst the gods, which I'll admit is pretty in-character.
I do not know about that, but I just realised something. Dwarves do not live forever. I looked it up on D&D wiki and apparently, their natural livespan is between 250 and 450 years (mountain dwarves).
The world is 1184 years old.
Assuming dwarves are fertile until they start being old (188 years), there were at least 7 generations of dwarves, including the current one, probably more. At least 4 of these generations are dead. And that is with dwarves only giving birth just before their 188th year and dying at their 450th year.
If 90% of the dead dwarves died honorably (There would be some that failed to do so, but most would, knowing that if they do not, they will belong to Hel), even Hel cashing in all the current Dwarven souls now may not make her powerful enough to beat all the other gods.
But the longer she waits, the worse it becomes for her. The number of dead keeps increasing, and most of them die honorably.
The Giant has explained that souls provide a lot of power when a god first gets them, then they taper off, eventually to practically nothing as the soul merges into the plane. Each fresh soul is worth a great many old souls.
Post by: Mathel on September 15, 2018, 03:58:54 am
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 15, 2018, 06:42:03 am
Given how many times the world has been destroyed, the deal with Hel seems pretty short sighted now. Either Loki didn't realize that everyone dying due to the gods unraveling creation would count as dishonorable, or he was hoping that this time the Snarl would break out and devour all the dwarf souls before Hel could collect.
...Unless his real plan was to trick Thor into an unwinnable situation and sow chaos amongst the gods, which I'll admit is pretty in-character.
I do not know about that, but I just realised something. Dwarves do not live forever. I looked it up on D&D wiki and apparently, their natural livespan is between 250 and 450 years (mountain dwarves).
The world is 1184 years old.
Assuming dwarves are fertile until they start being old (188 years), there were at least 7 generations of dwarves, including the current one, probably more. At least 4 of these generations are dead. And that is with dwarves only giving birth just before their 188th year and dying at their 450th year.
If 90% of the dead dwarves died honorably (There would be some that failed to do so, but most would, knowing that if they do not, they will belong to Hel), even Hel cashing in all the current Dwarven souls now may not make her powerful enough to beat all the other gods.
But the longer she waits, the worse it becomes for her. The number of dead keeps increasing, and most of them die honorably.
What was the first generation of Dwarves? Or any creature really? Did the god's just spawn a bunch of dwarven babies and let them fend for themselves?
Post by: Dorsidwarf on September 15, 2018, 07:13:31 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 15, 2018, 12:50:21 pm
Rich likes playing around with overly simplistic notions of good and evil. I wouldn't be surprised if we get to hear Hel's whole plan, and it turns out to be something that makes sense on some level.
Post by: Rolan7 on September 21, 2018, 09:33:25 am
Post by: smjjames on September 21, 2018, 09:41:40 am
1141 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1141.html)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Mathel on September 21, 2018, 10:09:03 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
But where did the Dark One come from. Can they not just ask more gods from there?
Post by: Madman198237 on September 21, 2018, 10:13:19 am
Congratulations, guys, we are all spectators of a world in which even the deities compare themselves to low-quality lumps of colored wax with a flimsy paper wrapper.
Oh, and ochre jelly.
Post by: smjjames on September 21, 2018, 10:23:44 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Durkon and Redcloak are enemies, though I'm not sure how well Redcloak actually knows Durkon other than perhaps seeing him as a member of an annoying team of protagonists. Contacting him is easy enough, true, but convincing him is another matter entirely.
Quote
But where did the Dark One come from. Can they not just ask more gods from there?
I'd imagine maybe something similar to the first Dwarven king who ascended to demigodhood, some being that became legendary in their own right, got worshipped, and ascended to godhood via sheer belief. His origins however, are unknown AFAIK.
It does sort of beg the question, if ascension to full godhood like that (compared to the first Dwarven king) is possible, then why does it sound like Thor is saying that out of the millions of worlds, this is the first time some being has ascended to full godhood like that?
edit: A thought just popped into my head: Maybe the Dark One didn't appear in THIS world and is from a few worlds back and is simply now this strong. However, as I've seen talked about in the GitP forum, where are the other ascended deities? It's unlikely that this is neccesarily the first time that some being ascended to godhood.
Post by: Rolan7 on September 21, 2018, 10:39:00 am
Maybe this is the first time they created a race of sapient punching bags? At least to this extent? Maybe even not just goblinoids, but the entire dungeon-crawl setup where adventurers kill designated targets for experience. An entire world seemingly engineered for endless, morally-justified combat, DND style.
The souls of intelligent beings are said to have power, and we have a situation where there are a *lot* of them who exist only to lose a fight. Why would they worship their creators? The twist could be that the gods created the Dark One through sheer unfairness. Basically forcing their creations (who Thor admits are more real than gods) to summon up a new way paradigm.
Of course, it's a paradigm built of abuse and spite, so we'll see how that goes. Redcloak, ascended, would probably just make a nicer world without fantasy racism (and with more rationality, perhaps). But he isn't the Dark One.
Also, I can't wait to see how "Power is Power" and "Unlives in the Ethereal plane" Xykon factors into all this.
Post by: MorleyDev on September 21, 2018, 10:50:48 am
I expect it's simply that the other worlds didn't survive long enough to birth a new god, whilst this one (by virtue of luck and persistence from the rest of the gods) actually did hold out long enough for the Dark One to come about and fill that gap left by the dead gods.
...Holy shit, the Dark One is Talos.
Post by: Dorsidwarf on September 21, 2018, 11:01:32 am
I wonder if this plotline is older than the pantheon colours of the gods being defined. Did Thor and Loki have the yellow aura the first times we saw them? If so, Rich must have been so annoyed when the came up with the divine colour theory and realised he couldnt get Red, Green, and Blue as the pantheon colours
Post by: Mathel on September 21, 2018, 11:10:28 am
Theres just something about the way Durkon looks at Minrah when she compares all the beings of creation to dogs that cracks me up.
I wonder if this plotline is older than the pantheon colours of the gods being defined. Did Thor and Loki have the yellow aura the first times we saw them? If so, Rich must have been so annoyed when the came up with the divine colour theory and realised he couldnt get Red, Green, and Blue as the pantheon colours
They do in 0079 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0079.html), but that may just be retconjuration.
Post by: Felissan on September 21, 2018, 11:12:54 am
Post by: Rolan7 on September 21, 2018, 11:42:22 am
The colors were already set in stone by 273 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0273.html), and I'm pretty sure it's the first appearance of the other 3 pantheons.The absence of the Eastern Pantheon took me by surprise this update, but it wasn't just foreshadowed - it was explicitly spelled out in this (and the next). Nice.
I'm only at all surprised that Shojo knew about them, and was willing to share that detail with the Order. Seems unnecessary, but it's not like he was lawful.
Edit: Which of course means that Durkon was already aware of this revelation, which is why the comic focuses on her reaction instead.
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 21, 2018, 12:29:24 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on September 21, 2018, 12:32:11 pm
No, surely not.
...
Jeez, yeah that would actually fit with everything pretty well. He even started a pantheon on that orc island.
Post by: MagmaMcFry on September 21, 2018, 01:26:52 pm
Post by: Xantalos on September 21, 2018, 02:05:25 pm
Post by: Imic on September 21, 2018, 03:01:38 pm
Post by: Sergius on September 21, 2018, 06:25:26 pm
Post by: Nahere on September 21, 2018, 06:47:36 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on September 21, 2018, 07:24:17 pm
Post by: Akura on September 21, 2018, 07:53:03 pm
I remember Redcloak once mentioned of an Elven Pantheon that ascended to godhood like the Dark One but can't find any real info about them. My guess is that they're just the same color as some other pantheon for some unknown reason.Judging from #999 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0999.html), the Elven Pantheon is red, just like the Western Gods. Worth noting that in #680 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0680.html), the Elves have had the northern chunk of the Western Continent for centuries(the rest are the BST empires), so that's probably why they're red. I would guess that goblinoids are more widely spread than other species, yet all (mostly) follow the same god, The Dark One can't rightly be lumped in with any of the other pantheon colors. And being treated like XP fodder by all of them probably doesn't help - or maybe actually does now.
I would also guess that Thor calls the Eastern Pantheon the Eastern Pantheon, rather than by their color, it's possible that one of the gods' agreements throughout the cycle has been sticking to specific corners of the world - North(Thor, etc), South(The Twelve), and West(Nergal, Elves, etc).
Post by: hops on September 21, 2018, 08:54:28 pm
Then again I have no idea how they expect to revive Durkon since the guy just disintegrated.
Post by: Lord Shonus on September 21, 2018, 08:59:57 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 21, 2018, 09:10:54 pm
My guess is that Thor is going to do some minor cheating on the injunction against divine intervention to get this info to the party.
Side bet: The world inside the Snarl was created by the Eastern Pantheon, who still exist within it.
Double side bet: Xykon doesn't give a shit about world conquest or anything else too small for someone with a secret astral fortress - his real goal is the highest goal any evil wizard could hope for. The extermination of the gods.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 21, 2018, 09:39:56 pm
Post by: smjjames on September 21, 2018, 09:49:51 pm
I guess we have an answer to "How do you convince Redcloak to resurrect Durkon, being that he is confirmed as the only living caster powerful enough for this job".
Probably the only known caster powerful enough, there could be others. Then there is the problem of getting Durkons ashes to Redcloak or vice versa, there is the problem of what to do with Xykon... There are a whole bunch of things that have to be dealt with or reconciled with before Redcloak switches sides. If I recall, there is also the compulsion Xykon put on monster in the dark to eat Redcloak if Redcloak ever betrayed Xykon. However, Redcloak is certainly clever enough (also helps that MitD isn't too bright, pun unintended) to make it look like Redcloak didn't betray Xykon. After all, he's kept his own agenda hidden from Xykon all this time.
Post by: crazyabe on September 21, 2018, 10:03:50 pm
Not only Redcloak and Durkon can cast that spell, I think. At the least the High Priest of Thor can cast it.Interesting thoughts: is it possible for a dead cleric to cast resurrection? and has anyone even considered tracking down a high level (although dead...) Cleric to have them cast resurrection?
Post by: Egan_BW on September 21, 2018, 10:26:10 pm
A corpse probably doesn't retain its former spellcasting ability, no. Durkon can probably still cast from where he is in the outer planes, but Resurrection requires contact with the body.
...That makes me think of a high-level evil cleric casting True Resurrection on themselves while in hell. I guess knowing that spell gives you effective immunity to being permanently put down by murder. Provided you can find the material component in whatever place you end up. Scary.
(Unless there is some restriction on casting such things while dead that I'm not aware of?)
Post by: DAPARROT on September 21, 2018, 11:24:17 pm
The vampire could probably cast it. Maybe even pull off some tricky timing by having the spell activate at the very same moment he gets staked, if your GM happens to be permissive.The main problem with that, if it even works, is that you would remain in hell, and if you were capable of casting true resurrection, you probably get enough "special treatment" that you would be re-killed before you could plane shift away
A corpse probably doesn't retain its former spellcasting ability, no. Durkon can probably still cast from where he is in the outer planes, but Resurrection requires contact with the body.
...That makes me think of a high-level evil cleric casting True Resurrection on themselves while in hell. I guess knowing that spell gives you effective immunity to being permanently put down by murder. Provided you can find the material component in whatever place you end up. Scary.
(Unless there is some restriction on casting such things while dead that I'm not aware of?)
Post by: Akura on September 22, 2018, 04:34:17 am
Post by: Zanzetkuken The Great on September 22, 2018, 09:05:36 am
Post by: smjjames on September 22, 2018, 09:12:10 am
Irony: The Dark One wants the gate for the snarl to force recognition by the other gods, when merely showing up with his new color aura would have them near instantly giving him what he wants.
How many of the other gods realize that his new color aura is exactly what they need though?
Post by: hops on September 22, 2018, 10:01:35 am
Post by: Culise on September 22, 2018, 10:05:15 am
As well, how willing is the Dark One to cooperate: does he just want a place at the table, or does he want to be in charge? All we know is what he's told to Redcloak so far about his side of the plot, which makes it sound like the former, but it's not impossible that it's the latter.
Post by: MorleyDev on September 22, 2018, 02:31:45 pm
The long con is because he cares too much about the current goblinoids to see them wiped out by the unmaking of the world, but if the the other gods know the Dark One makes a difference they may just view remaking the world and building a stronger prison with the Dark One as the safer option anyway, so would not back the 'risky' option Thor and co are pushing for.
Post by: Imic on September 22, 2018, 03:47:36 pm
Looking back at the godsmoot, a lot of what the gods said... Makes sense in new context. One of them outright said “I’m bored with this world”.
Post by: Mathel on September 22, 2018, 04:14:29 pm
Post by: Akura on September 22, 2018, 04:32:41 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on September 22, 2018, 05:00:12 pm
Interesting how both the Snarl and the Dark One's glow are purple.
I think the Snarl doesn't have a purple quiddity, but an amalgam of yellow, blue, red, and green quiddities, which average out to looking purple.
So it glows the same as the dark one, but if you were to look really closely you'd see that all the snarl's threads are those four quiddities, while the dark one's quiddity is 100% purple, a color not present in the snarl.
I guess it's possible that the dark one is purple because it's a mix of red and blue or something. That would make what Thor's saying not make much sense, though.
Post by: smjjames on September 22, 2018, 05:11:58 pm
Post by: FallacyofUrist on September 22, 2018, 08:05:55 pm
~~~
I've come up with a crackpot theory regarding the Monster in the Dark. I think it's an adventurer. A very high level one, brainwashed to serve Xykon.
Alternatively it's an amnesiac god.
Post by: Lord Shonus on September 22, 2018, 08:21:53 pm
Quote from: The Giant
Every spellcaster has their own color; it is not based on their alignment or type of magic or anything. It is mostly a matter of choice or personality, though most clerics tend to clump into the same general color if they worship the same gods because they tend to choose the same colors and/or have similar personalities.
Elan has a similar color to the Azurite priests because it's not as if everyone in the North sits around going, "Gosh, we can't pick blue, because those people on another continent all picked blue!" Tsukiko uses the same color for her divine magic as the Azurite priests because they both worship the Twelve Gods, who are worshipped as a pantheon by all alignments in Azure City.
And as far as the girl in #730, I promise that whether she is using mind energy or fire does not affect the story in the slightest, and therefore it doesn't matter whether or not you can tell what it is.
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 22, 2018, 11:50:07 pm
Maybe this is the first time they created a race of sapient punching bags? At least to this extent? Maybe even not just goblinoids, but the entire dungeon-crawl setup where adventurers kill designated targets for experience. An entire world seemingly engineered for endless, morally-justified combat, DND style.
This could be related to Thor and Hel's game. A world where one race's afterlife depends on them dying valiantly in battle naturally demands more Evil creatures for them to die valiantly in battle against.
Post by: pikachu17 on September 24, 2018, 07:15:37 pm
Also, would not dying so an eldritch creature does not escape its prison count as an honorable death?
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 24, 2018, 07:42:01 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on September 24, 2018, 07:49:30 pm
I think that the key is "Did you knowingly and deliberately risk death to do this thing?", so being sacrificed to stop the Snarl would not count - no dwarf ever chose to die that way.
Post by: pikachu17 on September 24, 2018, 08:32:00 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 24, 2018, 08:36:00 pm
Unless Hel's got an ace the whole thing is over anyway - the council will vote no without a level 15 vampire to brainwash them, breaking the tie in favor of fighting the Snarl.
Oh, and as Thor mentioned a few pages ago, one of the most ironclad rules of the divine interdiction is not telling mortals about the Snarl unless they already know.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 24, 2018, 08:39:07 pm
Then just tell the dwarves. At least then they have a chance of honor, and considering the culture they most likely have, they probably would accept death with honorable dignity.
That was Eugene's solution. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1047.html)
Post by: smjjames on September 24, 2018, 08:45:50 pm
Kinda difficult when Thor and Loki are against dissolution and Hel is for it. Besides, the whole plan verged on mindslaving the Dwarven council of clans to tiebreak, so not exactly a lot of time to make this happen.
Unless Hel's got an ace the whole thing is over anyway - the council will vote no without a level 15 vampire to brainwash them, breaking the tie in favor of fighting the Snarl.
You're forgetting the two vampires (the ex-exarch and an unnamed NPC vampire) that he sent ahead to prepare and wait for further instructions. They'll certainly realize that the master is dead, but whether they'll carry out the plan is unknown. I'd guess the ex-exarch would go ahead and try because he has unwavering loyalty, but he still doesn't have the level 15 (or whatever level the party is) vampire to back him up.
Post by: MorleyDev on September 26, 2018, 05:49:25 am
1. the inherent nature or essence of someone or something.
2. a distinctive feature; a peculiarity.
Today I learnt.
Post by: hops on September 26, 2018, 06:10:27 am
Post by: Lord Shonus on September 29, 2018, 03:25:19 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on September 29, 2018, 03:40:49 pm
Post by: Dorsidwarf on September 29, 2018, 04:58:06 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: smjjames on September 29, 2018, 07:07:59 pm
Sounds like despite having a framework available for mortals ascended to god/demi-godhood, they never expected it to happen on their own without the guidance or otherwise under the auspices of the gods.
Mortals ascending seems to be common enough (out of what, thousands, millions of worlds?) to set up a framework, but it shows a lack of imagination that they didn't consider the possibility that a mortal would ascend that isn't otherwise under the auspices of one of the pantheons.
Post by: Lord Shonus on September 29, 2018, 07:21:22 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
If you'd read Start Of Darkness you'd already know that.
Post by: Arcvasti on September 29, 2018, 07:57:28 pm
Two color snarl? Wouldn't that be put down pretty quick by the three pantheons working together?
They could seal it away really well, sure, but they couldn't really kill it. A strong enough group of mortals probably could though, since they're three-color.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 29, 2018, 08:06:06 pm
Post by: hops on September 29, 2018, 10:16:23 pm
Also, it'd probably quickly kill Thor and The Dark One.Two color snarl? Wouldn't that be put down pretty quick by the three pantheons working together?
They could seal it away really well, sure, but they couldn't really kill it. A strong enough group of mortals probably could though, since they're three-color.
Post by: MrWiggles on September 30, 2018, 01:35:39 am
Hmm. Does this mean that goblins who are born after the dark one apotheosis are four-color beings, and thus a high level party of only gobliniods may be able to destroy the snarl permanently? :PDark One didnt make the Goblins, and there nothing to show he is responsible for goblin fucking other goblins. So they are probablt 3 colors.
Post by: Dorsidwarf on September 30, 2018, 06:08:00 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
If you'd read Start Of Darkness you'd already know that.
I have read SoD, but as far as I remember Thor is just used to represent the "we do not want this guy around destroy him while we can" faction in the retelling? Expecting this to be a reveal of how thor is personally responsible.
Quote
Two color snarl? Wouldn't that be put down pretty quick by the three pantheons working together?
its unclear how strong the "snarl" in the fabric of reality is on an objective level. All we know is that the gods see the only option of dealing with the 4-colour snarl as being to wrap it up in the threads of reality it is made of to lock it into place. Forever. Also yeah as someone said the Baby Snarl might gank the Dark One instantly and then the gods would have to wait another couple billion universes or something
edit: just noticed that Rich misspelled aperture as aperature
Post by: Akura on September 30, 2018, 02:39:21 pm
its unclear how strong the "snarl" in the fabric of reality is on an objective level.Could be possible to guess. Looking at the Divine Rules SRD, we can guess that Thor and the like would fall in the range of 16-20 Divine Ranks (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm#rank16-20), varying between gods. They all clearly have worshipers that number in the millions - stated here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1000.html) that there are 10 million dwarves alone, mostly worshiping Thor. Hel, starved of worshipers and souls, probably rates a lower Divine Rank. The Snarl could qualify as an "overdeity"(DR of 21+) - even the SRD's description of an overdeity eerily correlates to the Snarl:
Quote
These entities are beyond the ken of mortals and care nothing for worshipers. They do not grant spells, do not answer prayers, and do not respond to queries. If they are known at all, it is to a handful of scholars on the Material Plane.
It seems that when the various pantheons combine their powers, they can create something of a higher Divine Rank than any of them. It could be translated directly from the number of colors used in the process, since The Dark One is a single god with a uniquely-colored quiddity, yet alone could tip the balance against the Snarl if his power was added to the other pantheons. I suppose a two-color Snarl would rate a lower DR than the current Snarl, but still stronger than any of the other gods.
As for actual stats and abilities, a few things can also be guessed at. During Hinjo's crayon exposition (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0274.html) it was theorized that the Snarl has an ability that gives it a bonus against Divine beings. In the same exposition, it's described as having claws, and possibly the Cleave feat since it killed two gods in one round.
Post by: Imic on September 30, 2018, 03:24:10 pm
Post by: smjjames on September 30, 2018, 03:34:12 pm
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 30, 2018, 03:35:14 pm
What about a five-quiddity alliance between deities? Might that be capable of destroying the Snarl for good?But there is no fifth color. The western pantheon got destroyed.
BTW in this debate I think we are forgetting the Snarl world we saw during the conquest of Azurecity. I think there is more to this Snarl business than it seems.
Post by: Imic on September 30, 2018, 03:37:36 pm
Yes, but after the Western pantheon was destroyed, the Dark one just became powerful with his own quiddity. If that happened again, possibly deliberately this time, then they might be able to imprison the Snarl for good, at the very least.What about a five-quiddity alliance between deities? Might that be capable of destroying the Snarl for good?But there is no fifth color. The western pantheon got destroyed.
BTW in this debate I think we are forgetting the Snarl world we saw during the conquest of Azurecity. I think there is more to this Snarl business than it seems.
Post by: Lord Shonus on September 30, 2018, 03:38:31 pm
Post by: smjjames on September 30, 2018, 03:56:03 pm
Yes, but after the Western pantheon was destroyed, the Dark one just became powerful with his own quiddity. If that happened again, possibly deliberately this time, then they might be able to imprison the Snarl for good, at the very least.What about a five-quiddity alliance between deities? Might that be capable of destroying the Snarl for good?But there is no fifth color. The western pantheon got destroyed.
BTW in this debate I think we are forgetting the Snarl world we saw during the conquest of Azurecity. I think there is more to this Snarl business than it seems.
Do the pantheons know anything about the planet within the Snarl? We don't know if they know.
As far as we know, the only characters aware of the planet within it are V and Blackwing. The psion (I think she is a psion?) who is part of Elans dad's team sensed something I think when she tried to scan the rift, but couldn't figure out what before it blew up on her. Then theres the rest of OotS who saw the ocean on the other side of the rift, so, they know that all might not be as it seems. However, I don't think Durkon ever saw it...
There's a theory over on GitP that the Starmetal used to reforge Roy's sword is a relic of the Eastern Gods, and would provide a fifth quiddity. I doubt it, but crazier theories have been proven.
I saw that one, something about the starmetal being a shard of the eastern gods or something. Got shot down with the argument that if the color emitted was enough, then V's magic aura would also work.
Post by: Dorsidwarf on September 30, 2018, 04:05:30 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 30, 2018, 04:06:51 pm
Post by: Imic on September 30, 2018, 04:12:53 pm
It looks like the psion read the Snarl's mind. That's probably fatal.0945 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0945.html)
Yeah, I don’t think she survived that. It’s possible that none of the people in the area did.
Would the snarl have destroyed their sould as Thor described it doing before, or is that not until the Snrl proper escapes?
Post by: Dorsidwarf on September 30, 2018, 04:22:33 pm
It looks like the psion read the Snarl's mind. That's probably fatal.0945 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0945.html)
Yeah, I don’t think she survived that. It’s possible that none of the people in the area did.
Would the snarl have destroyed their sould as Thor described it doing before, or is that not until the Snrl proper escapes?
Miron being a near-epic level caster who got taken out of the Vector Guild fight before casting many spells and who has been explicitly shown teleporting almost certainly got away, possibly with Laurin (assuming she survived whatever caused her to have the Snarl(? theres some debate about that but im pretty sure its our tangly boi) in her eyes). The sweaties are probbably all dead though.
I believe that people killed through the Rifts by the Snarl (aka Mijung) probbably had their souls destroyed. Mijung is listed as such on the OOTS wiki so thats probbably the case barring any sudden revalations about the true nature of the Snarl
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 30, 2018, 04:28:48 pm
Post by: smjjames on September 30, 2018, 04:53:15 pm
It looks like the psion read the Snarl's mind. That's probably fatal.0945 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0945.html)
Yeah, I don’t think she survived that. It’s possible that none of the people in the area did.
Would the snarl have destroyed their sould as Thor described it doing before, or is that not until the Snrl proper escapes?
Oh yeah, thanks for the link, I'd forgotten whether V had told Roy about it. So, yeah, Roy knows that all is not neccesarily as it seems.
Here is a wild theory: the snarl is axtually preserving the worlds the gods "destroy", and it's the snarl's raison de etre. It doesn't like the gods because it sees them as quarrelsome and unstable
Possibly? I checked back where Blackwing saw the planet and that one is lush and green (and possibly undergoing an ice age?) while the one Laurin tried to scan appears to be biologically dead (at least as far as multicellular creatures that Laurin can sense). We don't even know if they're the same world.
Post by: hops on October 01, 2018, 05:49:43 am
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 01, 2018, 09:38:26 am
Post by: smjjames on October 01, 2018, 09:49:57 am
What if the Snarl is some kind of creation singularity that absorb creation and gods and turn them into one single, cohesive world? But from what Laurin had said, it's probably an ultimately lifeless (well, animal/moving creatures-less) world.
Doesn't explain the lush world that Blackwing saw if it's an ultimately lifeless world.
Post by: Imic on October 01, 2018, 10:34:04 am
He said lifeless from the perspective of fauna with no flora, rather than flora andfauna.What if the Snarl is some kind of creation singularity that absorb creation and gods and turn them into one single, cohesive world? But from what Laurin had said, it's probably an ultimately lifeless (well, animal/moving creatures-less) world.
Doesn't explain the lush world that Blackwing saw if it's an ultimately lifeless world.
The story seems to be going in two opposite directions at once, and both seem bound to collide, despite the laws of physics stating that they shouldn’t.
Post by: Egan_BW on October 01, 2018, 10:41:38 am
Post by: Imic on October 01, 2018, 10:44:48 am
Any object, once in motion, will eventually collide with the main plot.Aaaaaaaaaaaand sigged.
Post by: smjjames on October 01, 2018, 10:47:06 am
Post by: Egan_BW on October 01, 2018, 10:52:56 am
Aaaaaaaaaaaand sigged.Nifty.
Post by: Immortal-D on October 01, 2018, 07:57:11 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on October 02, 2018, 12:48:04 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on October 03, 2018, 04:32:38 am
Post by: Imic on October 03, 2018, 05:22:37 am
I'm surprised that Durkon isn't referenced more on these forums.How dare you speak ill of Mini-Armok!
Post by: Xantalos on October 08, 2018, 01:52:36 pm
...
I'm too lazy to link it on a phone.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on October 08, 2018, 01:57:16 pm
Post by: Felissan on October 08, 2018, 02:21:21 pm
Post by: smjjames on October 08, 2018, 02:25:55 pm
I've got you. Link to 1143 here. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1143.html)
Fixed the link. edit: ninja'd
Wouldn't the spell being used channel his deities essence anyway? Sounds like all they have to do is let him do what he wanted for the gate. It's going to be a hard task convincing redcloak since they're on opposite teams, and I'm pretty sure Thor knows that.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on October 08, 2018, 02:27:35 pm
Post by: Akura on October 08, 2018, 04:07:05 pm
Post by: Greiger on October 08, 2018, 04:16:16 pm
Garlic breath: +10 to persuasion rolls against vampires.
Post by: Dorsidwarf on October 08, 2018, 07:32:47 pm
Post by: scriver on October 09, 2018, 12:25:26 am
Then again dnd Thor is probably Lawful Good and not the Chaotic Neutral/Stupid deity of the mythology.
Post by: Imic on October 09, 2018, 03:09:35 am
Then again dnd Thor is probably Lawful Good and not the Chaotic Neutral/Stupid deity of the mythology.Judging from his priests, yes.
Post by: Liber celi on October 09, 2018, 03:16:00 am
Post by: Dorsidwarf on October 09, 2018, 06:32:28 am
Post by: Imic on October 09, 2018, 06:55:50 am
Post by: Akura on October 09, 2018, 04:37:40 pm
Not sure how Tiamat figures into it(haven't read SoD), but Thor mentioned the other Western gods think she's lying about The Dark One's quiddity. On the other hand, Tiamat was also furious at Vaarsuvius' Familicide spell, which despite that was done as part of the plan to get the plot moving again.
Post by: IndigoFenix on October 10, 2018, 01:13:12 pm
Of course, that still leaves the question of Xykon.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on October 10, 2018, 05:37:25 pm
Post by: smjjames on October 10, 2018, 05:47:50 pm
Post by: scriver on October 11, 2018, 02:01:56 am
Post by: pikachu17 on October 12, 2018, 01:06:15 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on October 12, 2018, 01:07:08 pm
Post by: smjjames on October 12, 2018, 05:17:28 pm
Post by: Enemy post on October 17, 2018, 12:03:11 pm
Post by: scriver on October 17, 2018, 12:11:39 pm
Post by: smjjames on October 17, 2018, 01:06:51 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on October 17, 2018, 01:31:50 pm
Post by: TD1 on October 17, 2018, 01:37:18 pm
Post by: Hotfire90 on October 29, 2018, 07:05:53 pm
Post by: Culise on October 29, 2018, 07:10:01 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on October 29, 2018, 07:52:32 pm
Post by: Akura on October 29, 2018, 08:14:07 pm
Quote from: Durkon, last panel
Fer the first time in me life, ev'rythin' makes sense!
For the first time in what now?
Post by: smjjames on November 04, 2018, 12:25:03 pm
Odin talking about string is kind of ominous.
Seems to be like a metaphor for 'what's done can't be undone' (technically, you could undo a string by unravelling it's individual fibres, but that's besides the point). Though theres probably a ton of other metaphors that Rich Burlew could have used to give the same meaning, whether he chose that deliberately or because it's something he thought of unrelated to the plot remains to be seen.
Plus Odin being Oracle cryptic in a lucid moment.
Post by: Dorsidwarf on November 04, 2018, 01:16:30 pm
Post by: Imic on November 04, 2018, 03:22:47 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 10, 2018, 11:20:54 am
Inb4 the monster in the dark is a dwarf
Post by: Egan_BW on November 10, 2018, 03:06:17 pm
Post by: Imic on November 10, 2018, 04:13:49 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 10, 2018, 06:51:51 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 14, 2018, 09:11:24 am
Post by: scriver on November 14, 2018, 12:22:26 pm
Post by: TD1 on November 14, 2018, 01:11:52 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 14, 2018, 04:11:02 pm
(i'm not mad mad, it's an excellent troll)
Post by: Imic on November 14, 2018, 05:49:18 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 26, 2018, 10:24:57 pm
Post by: smjjames on November 26, 2018, 10:53:31 pm
And uh, possibly the present. 1147 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1147.html)
Referring to the mindwipe part? I guess the world-remaking affects them in a way that doesn't affect the gods, or maybe it affects the gods in the same way (see Odin) and they are able to handle it better than the Outsiders can.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 26, 2018, 10:57:43 pm
Post by: scriver on November 27, 2018, 01:37:19 am
Post by: Egan_BW on November 27, 2018, 01:46:13 am
Post by: scriver on November 27, 2018, 01:58:48 am
Post by: Egan_BW on November 27, 2018, 02:01:26 am
Post by: Akura on November 27, 2018, 05:52:31 am
It's been established in this comic(and 3.5ed rules) that outsiders' souls dissipate into the plane they're from, meaning it cannot be Raised or Resurrected(but it can be True Resurrected).
Post by: scriver on November 27, 2018, 06:50:07 am
I was thinking if the process is that Outsiders when they are killed on the prime material goes to their astral plane.
And mortals when killed in the prime material goes to their astral plane.
Then mortals sound like outsiders to me.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 27, 2018, 08:52:55 am
Quote from: d20srd
An outsider is at least partially composed of the essence (but not necessarily the material) of some plane other than the Material Plane. Some creatures start out as some other type and become outsiders when they attain a higher (or lower) state of spiritual existence.
Anyway, I think it is a common thing that Outsiders reform on their home plane (probably not The Astral Plane, it's a weird place). I've heard that's true for demons and devils at least, and that it doesn't occur if they're killed while home - IIRC they dissipate into the plane, truly dead without the ninth level True Resurrection. In 5e it looks like they reform instantly, in 3.5 I think it took hundreds of years (666 for devils, 999 for demons?).
Mortals just have their souls snatched up by gods (or possibly a plane) on death... Or their souls just stick around the Material/Etherial planes as ghosts (or Shadows maybe?). The Etherial plane is kinda unique in that it maps 1-to-1 with the Material, and is "close", which is why it's relatively easy to affect both at once.
Weirdly, Elementals (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#elementalType) are not Outsiders (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#outsiderType), just Explanar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#extraplanarSubtype) creatures... who specifically can't be resurrected normally. So practically speaking, Outsiders. I'm not sure why 3.5 did it that way.
Any creature that's away from its home plane is considered Extraplanar, heh, including normal adventurers. I assume that's used for banishment spells... yeah it is, makes sense. Can't banish a devil when you're in Hell!
Edit: I'm rambling all over the place as I keep checking the references, but:
...Does that make mortals outsiders?Nah, because mortals have a body and also a soul. Outsiders (and Elementals!), their body IS their soul. Monks at level 20 also fuse their body and soul, which does... little, since they still get to resurrect normally as a special case.
Post by: Sergius on November 27, 2018, 09:18:36 am
Post by: pikachu17 on November 27, 2018, 05:07:50 pm
Post by: Akura on November 27, 2018, 05:18:16 pm
Not a Futurama reference I meant to make.
In the comic I meant. The second to last panel.
Post by: Lord Shonus on November 27, 2018, 05:22:30 pm
Post by: birdy51 on November 27, 2018, 05:59:09 pm
Post by: smjjames on November 28, 2018, 01:04:19 am
Post by: Enemy post on December 13, 2018, 01:38:27 pm
Post by: TD1 on December 13, 2018, 01:44:22 pm
I'd say he'd get a few worshippers nowadays.
You know, if it wasn't for the all consuming void of Christian forcible conversion.
Post by: scriver on December 13, 2018, 01:49:05 pm
But yes this Thor is the best god.
Post by: TD1 on December 13, 2018, 02:08:48 pm
I think you need to see someone, scriver.
Post by: scriver on December 13, 2018, 02:43:02 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on December 13, 2018, 03:03:58 pm
And here we see why Thor is Best God.
I'd say he'd get a few worshippers nowadays.
You know, if it wasn't for the all consuming void of Christian forcible conversion.
Thor has quite a few RL worshippers. Neopaganism is rising signficantly.
Post by: TD1 on December 13, 2018, 03:06:13 pm
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 13, 2018, 03:26:17 pm
Post by: TD1 on December 13, 2018, 03:33:13 pm
How do you find the angle of truth? By being hypotenobtuse.
....
I'll let myself out.
Post by: scriver on December 13, 2018, 03:47:13 pm
Crom laughs at you! He laughs from his mountain!
Which is fitting because Cromism would be about as legitimate as I find neo-paganism to be.
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 13, 2018, 04:42:33 pm
Crom laughs at your rationality! He laughs from his mountain!Crom laughs at you! He laughs from his mountain!
Which is fitting because Cromism would be about as legitimate as I find neo-paganism to be.
Post by: scriver on December 13, 2018, 05:14:52 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on December 13, 2018, 06:07:53 pm
This is completely irrelevant, but Lord Shonus' text thingy is "Angle of Death." I found this amusing.
How do you find the angle of truth? By being hypotenobtuse.
....
I'll let myself out.
I used to use that in FPS games years ago. I was fond of grenades and indirect fire. Thus, I needed to focus on the deadly angle.
Post by: Imic on December 15, 2018, 02:56:10 pm
Post by: Sergius on December 17, 2018, 02:48:05 pm
1149 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1149.html)
Post by: TD1 on December 17, 2018, 02:52:27 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on December 17, 2018, 03:05:15 pm
Fire and grenades are the solutions to all things.
Post by: Reelya on December 17, 2018, 03:20:24 pm
Crom laughs at you! He laughs from his mountain!
Which is fitting because Cromism would be about as legitimate as I find neo-paganism to be.
The irony is that pagan originally referred to people from the countryside, since the cities were converting to Christianity, whereas the rural folks were sticking with the old gods for much longer. Now, the neo-pagans are the cityfolk and the Christians are the rural ones.
Post by: Akura on December 17, 2018, 03:24:32 pm
Och, too much yammerin' thar traps and not enough posting that tha next comic is up.
1149 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1149.html)
Alas Durkon. He proposes marriage, and she responds with a free drink upgrade.
Post by: MorleyDev on December 17, 2018, 03:37:03 pm
Well, progress is still progress... :P
Post by: Dorsidwarf on December 17, 2018, 06:08:09 pm
Post by: pikachu17 on December 17, 2018, 06:09:35 pm
Post by: JoshuaFH on December 17, 2018, 07:41:27 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on December 17, 2018, 07:42:54 pm
Post by: Reelya on December 17, 2018, 08:07:32 pm
There are a number of possible explanations for her over-reaction, but "I'm back with my husband actually" doesn't seem like a likely one. A more likely explanation is that she's angry that Durkon presupposes that she wants to marry him, or anyone else: the "i'll make an honest woman out of you" thing takes away her agency in the matter.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 17, 2018, 08:18:30 pm
Post by: Reelya on December 17, 2018, 08:26:20 pm
Maybe you hit the nail on the head however, and she killed him in order to satisfy her mission, and now will raise him again to consider what he said.
Post by: smjjames on December 18, 2018, 12:17:38 am
Och, too much yammerin' thar traps and not enough posting that tha next comic is up.
1149 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1149.html)
How did he get resurrected with clothes on while Roy came back completely naked? Not sure if it was the same spell, but still....
Post by: scriver on December 18, 2018, 01:56:33 am
Or something. I'm not going back to check if he was turned into a pile if ash or cloud of gas or whatever upon dying.
Post by: smjjames on December 18, 2018, 03:19:35 am
Also, anybody think that the flame strike (as powerful as it is) shouldn't have one shotted revived Durkon? I mean, she only managed to KO Roy with an empowered version of it. I know Roy is a tank and is built to take hits like that, but wouldn't Durkon and Helgya be the same level-ish?
(re-edited because I was going to make it into a new post, then a new post responding to that came up)
Post by: ChairmanPoo on December 18, 2018, 03:20:18 am
Post by: scriver on December 18, 2018, 03:29:31 am
Post by: Akura on December 18, 2018, 06:03:12 am
I think most resurrective magic leaves the lazarite with minimum or very low up.
No, Resurrection gives them full hit points. Flame Strike does a maximum of 15d6, or a maximum of 90. A high roll can take down even a high-level character. And there's no way Durkon is going to make a Reflex save.
Post by: Enemy post on December 31, 2018, 03:58:49 pm
Post by: smjjames on December 31, 2018, 06:35:03 pm
The fact that the gods (Thor and Odin at least) don’t know about it is new and could be troubling. Especially since they spent, at minimum, an eon fighting the Snarl and never learned of it.
Post by: Arcvasti on December 31, 2018, 08:07:35 pm
Post by: Akura on December 31, 2018, 08:43:48 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on January 01, 2019, 08:06:40 am
Post by: Imic on January 01, 2019, 12:12:06 pm
Post by: Dorsidwarf on January 01, 2019, 03:25:06 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on January 01, 2019, 04:03:37 pm
Post by: smjjames on January 02, 2019, 01:05:02 am
The gods not knowing what the deal with the Rift Planet is is... probbably not a good sign, since I guess it means either that the planet is a snarl-made fake (Indicating its smarter than we've been led to believe), or that the gods have missed some very important developments in the stop-the-godkilling-abomination-from-killing-everyone protocol
Especially when you consider how much time they have spent. The current iteration is between 1 and 2 thousand years old, up from 4 years for the second iteration, and then there’s the cooldown period. Thor doesn’t say how long, but it must be a significantly long period of time. That all adds up, which means that they’ve had anywhere from tens of millions of years to a few billion to have chance observations of whatever the planet is.
This could mean two things, one being that they weren’t even bothering to try to learn more about the Snarl (or they gave up trying at some point), or two, the rift planet is new, possibly with this iteration.
Post by: Rolan7 on January 09, 2019, 10:41:00 am
Post by: Imic on January 09, 2019, 11:15:45 am
The one thing no-one theorized would happen.
Post by: smjjames on January 09, 2019, 11:38:56 am
Also, if Helgya is rich as heck now, as she claims three pages back, how come they didn't resurrect Minrah right away? I notice that they're bringing the body with them.
Post by: Lord Shonus on January 09, 2019, 12:05:54 pm
The more likely explanation is that Raising Minrah doesn't contribute to her "inflict wildly disproportionate revenge on anyone that has ever committed any wrong against Hilgya” agenda, and thus she simply won't do it. Chaotic Evil lunatics don't often act out of altruism.
Post by: Mathel on January 09, 2019, 12:12:29 pm
Durkon does not have it prepared and Minrah would not accept it from a CE caster.
Post by: pikachu17 on January 09, 2019, 05:07:43 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on January 09, 2019, 05:21:15 pm
But fortunately we can dodge alignment debate: I peeked at the OoTS wiki, and the fact she Turns undead (rather than rebukes) proves that she isn't evil.
And as a reminder, clerics in 3.5 can be "one step away" from their deity's alignment. The wiki lists Loki as CE, which seems about right. He can be reasonable and charming at times, yet still be a champion of chaotic selfishness.
Post by: Akura on January 09, 2019, 05:34:01 pm
And as a reminder, clerics in 3.5 can be "one step away" from their deity's alignment. The wiki lists Loki as CE, which seems about right. He can be reasonable and charming at times, yet still be a champion of chaotic selfishness.Except it's also a rule that if a god is not Neutral, then a cleric cannot be Neutral. So unless Loki is actually Good somehow, she's Neutral and Hilgya, also Neutral, decided when she took her first level in cleric to turn undead/convert spells to Cure Wounds as a Good cleric.
Post by: Rolan7 on January 09, 2019, 05:44:47 pm
I don't have my book handy but the SRD says "A cleric may not be neutral unless his deity’s alignment is also neutral." (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/cleric.htm)
I think that's supposed to reference total neutrality, AKA true-neutral or neutral-neutral. Pure neutrality is a bit odd in 3.5. It's the default state of most people, the only possible state of EVERY animal, and also this strange fanatic ideal which druids try to uphold (though even they are allowed to be one step away from it).
That's just how my group always read it, anyway.
And based on the wiki, how the GiantITP crowd probably read it... And have you seen that forum? They know an absolutely terrifying amount about DND, particularly 3rd edition. I wouldn't anger them.
Edit: I mean that the OoTS/GiantITP wiki has Hilgya as definitely CN and Loki as definitely CE.
Post by: Lord Shonus on January 09, 2019, 08:49:51 pm
The Giant conspicuously did not mention Hilgya in his "list of neutral characters (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?293540-No-love-for-Neutral-alignments-in-OOTS/page2&p=15667889#post15667889)"
On screen, Hilgya admitted to attempting to murder her harmless husband (who she was obviously able to simply walk away from, because that's what she did), stated that the only reason she didn't burn down her clan's holding with everybody inside was concern that the smoke would harm the baby's lungs, and that she decided to drive the entire clan into bankruptcy instead. Her stated moral philosophy is "as long as I hurt you more than you hurt me, I win."
Exactly what needs to be added to that before the "She is Evil" flag shows up?
Also, the OOtS wiki I'm looking at states "Alignment Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Evil" for Hilgya. Consensus on the forums (except for one individual who's decided that she's an automatically-always-right saint) is CE.
Post by: Rolan7 on January 09, 2019, 11:46:27 pm
I do agree that she is murder-y for a neutral character on the good/evil spectrum, but that's in my personal opinion and I don't want to start an alignment debate.
I guess I'll protest that it wasn't obviously easy to walk away from her arranged marriage, even though she managed to do so. The dwarven culture seems very opposed to such an exit, which makes her chaotic background... less random than some chaotic PCs.
Post by: Lord Shonus on January 10, 2019, 12:20:21 am
This can be interpreted in two ways, but the one that most people on GiTP (who actually know about this fairly obscure FR god) take as RAI is:
Kelemvor is a Neutral god on the Good-Evil axis. Normally, such a god grants Turn Undead to his Good clerics, Rebuke Undead to his Evil Clerics, and Cleric's Choice to his Neutral Clerics. Because Kelemvor hates the undead, he grants Turn Undead to his Good clerics, Turn Undead to his Evil Clerics, and Turn Undead to his Neutral Clerics.
Post by: Enemy post on January 21, 2019, 08:14:32 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on January 21, 2019, 08:33:21 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Egan_BW on January 21, 2019, 08:33:50 pm
I feel that way all the time, Roy.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Akura on January 21, 2019, 09:11:15 pm
Of course you're going to let Mom know you're okay from time to time. And I feel dumb because I never considered that.
Post by: MidnightJaguar on January 21, 2019, 10:07:43 pm
"If I worried about all the things I don't worry about, I'd never stop worrying!"
I feel that way all the time, Roy.Spoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Mathel on January 22, 2019, 12:19:50 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: scriver on January 22, 2019, 07:52:08 am
Post by: Mathel on January 22, 2019, 12:45:08 pm
It has listed fail chance for interplanar Sending, that means that the target can be on a different plane.
Which is related to another question. Do dead clerics still get their spells? If yes, one could Send to someone living.
Dead Arcane casters would be limited by their lack of spellbook and material components.
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 22, 2019, 12:51:16 pm
This is why I love DurkonI thought it was just your midget fetish...
Post by: pikachu17 on January 23, 2019, 04:00:02 pm
I got a strange idea. Could Sending be used to speak with dead people?Don't see why not.
It has listed fail chance for interplanar Sending, that means that the target can be on a different plane.
Quote
Which is related to another question. Do dead clerics still get their spells? If yes, one could Send to someone living.No idea.
Dead Arcane casters would be limited by their lack of spellbook and material components.
Post by: Akura on January 23, 2019, 06:52:40 pm
That said, can a dead spellcaster regain spells on their afterlife plane? Eugene Greenhilt(a sorcerer) seems to have no problem, but while Eugene can and regularly does talk to his living son, there are apparently rules in place - only at night, while Roy is alone(or everyone else is asleep), and only by channeling through the Greenhilt ancestral sword. Also the "pass information only through cryptic bullshit" rule.
Post by: Egan_BW on January 23, 2019, 06:57:40 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on January 23, 2019, 07:52:27 pm
More like V than, say, that sorceress in the bandit camp arc. Charisma as a casting stat instead of intelligence.
...Speaking of which, Xykon is a *sorcerer* not wizard. That really shouldn't have surprised me, he's pure chutzpah and pretty meh about long-term-planning. That makes the spell list O-Chul worked out far more important than I realized. I thought they were working out Xykon's spellbook contents, which would probably be "everything he wants", but he's actually limited to a relatively small and static list of spells known.
That's the advantage wizards have over sorcerers, and why they're "always prepared". If they don't utilize their greater flexibility, by basically predicting the day's encounters, they're just worse than sorcerers. But a sorcerer can be outmaneuvered once you know their tricks.
Post by: Egan_BW on January 23, 2019, 08:06:35 pm
Well, until I picked up a carbine. Technologically advanced ruins are fun~
Post by: Enemy post on January 25, 2019, 10:52:26 am
Post by: smjjames on January 25, 2019, 11:04:18 am
Post by: Egan_BW on January 25, 2019, 11:35:31 am
Post by: scriver on January 25, 2019, 01:25:46 pm
Post by: pikachu17 on January 25, 2019, 01:26:25 pm
Post by: Criptfeind on January 25, 2019, 01:45:08 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on January 25, 2019, 01:50:16 pm
Does the DnD world have nutrition?Not really. Magical sources of food, such as goodberry, tend to mention that they're fully nourishing. The "simple fare" from Create Food is "rather bland", though. (Prestidgitation can fix that! If you feel like it.)
There are different standard prices for different kinds of meals, for roleplay purposes. 5th edition added some detail with the tiers of lifestyles for downtime.
Post by: MorleyDev on January 26, 2019, 10:02:32 am
Just wondering, because from what we've seen I wouldn't be surprised is Durkon's mum turns out to be a surprisingly high level...
Also interesting to note that both mother and son view 'marriage' as only 'proper' when one has a 'baby', though Durkon's mum at least has been around the block enough time to know to back down on the assumption.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on January 26, 2019, 12:48:27 pm
Post by: Greiger on January 26, 2019, 05:56:05 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on January 27, 2019, 05:21:19 am
Post by: Akura on January 27, 2019, 08:05:58 am
Post by: scriver on January 27, 2019, 08:26:27 am
Post by: Mathel on January 28, 2019, 12:39:01 am
Does losing an arm actually cost you any stats in DnD? Only played any DnD in video game form (Neverwinter Nights and whatnot), so genuinely don't know if it would affect a character negatively beyond what they equipment can equip or hold.
Just wondering, because from what we've seen I wouldn't be surprised is Durkon's mum turns out to be a surprisingly high level...
Also interesting to note that both mother and son view 'marriage' as only 'proper' when one has a 'baby', though Durkon's mum at least has been around the block enough time to know to back down on the assumption.
I would houserule it as making it impossible to do tasks requiring 2 hands, such as using weapon and shield or weapons requiring 2 hand by design (for example bows).
It would also half effective strength value for strength based skill checks other than 1 handed weapon attacks. (But not strength saves.)
Post by: scriver on January 28, 2019, 05:56:05 am
Post by: Mathel on January 28, 2019, 07:45:47 am
I guess that shooting a bow 1-handed would be technically possible in battle, but only by someone, who has trained for it, with specially adapted quiver. Without special training, there would be a high chance to fumble the arrow and drop it, without special quiver, it would take extra long to pull another arrow.
Post by: JoshuaFH on January 28, 2019, 07:46:50 am
Post by: Mathel on January 28, 2019, 07:53:39 am
Proficiencies and attributes of the one holding the bow would go into the To Hit roll, those of the one holding the arrow would go into the Damage roll.
Post by: Felissan on January 28, 2019, 09:41:18 am
Post by: Madman198237 on January 28, 2019, 10:51:38 am
However you could probably manage to do something like lying down and using your feet to brace it in a shooting position. Best to just not bother, I think. Get a magical prosthetic or something first.
Post by: smjjames on January 28, 2019, 10:56:22 am
However you could probably manage to do something like lying down and using your feet to brace it in a shooting position. Best to just not bother, I think.
Which is what Haley did in that specific situation. Her high level (not sure what the OotS party's level is, I just know it's high, above 10 at least but probably not as high as 16) probably mitigated any penalties, or maybe Rich just houseruled it.
Post by: Madman198237 on January 28, 2019, 10:59:05 am
Post by: scriver on January 28, 2019, 11:12:36 am
Post by: smjjames on January 28, 2019, 11:29:48 am
The middle two are modern bows with all sorts of bells and whistles, though they don't appear to be modified in any particular way for one-handed or one-footed use.
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 28, 2019, 12:35:59 pm
Post by: Madman198237 on January 28, 2019, 01:19:09 pm
And were thus made useless when Alexander fought the Indian army, and the ground was somewhat muddy.
Post by: Arcvasti on January 28, 2019, 04:31:42 pm
Back in the day I think a GM I had said that you could not use 2 handed weapons without a massive penalty to hit and had to take strength checks at a -3 penalty. It was probably a house rule though, and my character hadn't so much as lost an arm as had an arm transformed into a non-aggressive, yet uncooperative snake temporarily.
Obvious solution is have the party ranger train the snake to fire a bow. Finally Handle Animal pays off.
Post by: Cyroth on January 31, 2019, 11:02:17 am
New one is up.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: birdy51 on January 31, 2019, 11:09:41 am
1154 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1154.html)
New one is up.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Zanzetkuken The Great on January 31, 2019, 11:14:54 am
Post by: Imic on January 31, 2019, 12:23:03 pm
I wonder if "Killing Trees" was originally added as a joke in order to be able to complete that password, and eventually became doctrine.We may never know.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Arcvasti on January 31, 2019, 11:51:21 pm
Post by: Hotfire90 on February 11, 2019, 06:03:02 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on February 11, 2019, 06:11:17 pm
Post by: smjjames on February 11, 2019, 06:41:50 pm
Of course, that also implies that if any of the currently shown characters make their save, they’ll either get murdered on the spot or scared into submission. Also, I thought that they weren’t going to arrive at the council hall until midmorning? Though early arrivals are possible.
Post by: TD1 on February 11, 2019, 07:26:33 pm
Post by: Akura on February 11, 2019, 08:16:29 pm
Wonder if anyone is going to make their will save. :P
If reading the entire comic series(excluding side-books) has taught me anything, literally everyone has a poor Will save.
Post by: Shinziril on February 15, 2019, 11:38:26 pm
Post by: smjjames on February 15, 2019, 11:42:24 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on February 16, 2019, 12:57:30 am
Even Hilgya managed to fail a Will save vs. vampiric domination, and she should have an absurd bonus as a high-level Cleric.
We all roll nat ones. ;P
Post by: Akura on February 16, 2019, 05:45:39 am
Unles dominate doesn't scale with level or something.
It doesn't, actually. The entry for the ability states that it works as a Dominate Person spell at caster level 12.
Post by: Xantalos on February 19, 2019, 02:29:58 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on February 19, 2019, 02:30:51 pm
Post by: smjjames on March 01, 2019, 03:22:09 pm
Ooh, those rules and barriers are going to be REALLY important for the coming fight. Hopefully either Hilgya or Durkon know something about the barriers and the rules. I also can't help but wonder if it cancels any active spells when a meeting starts since that is a pretty big loophole.
edit: Also, I wouldn't be surprised if there were other defenses within that would be less well known or secret, can't reveal every single defense in a book explaining Dwarven politics.
Post by: Akura on March 01, 2019, 06:06:00 pm
Also, could simply being an undead abomination be a violation of Dwarven law?
Also also, remember that if a Dominated person is given an instruction that goes against their nature, they get a new saving throw against the effect with a +2 bonus. I'm curious if being told to vote yes on a proposal that would destroy the world, and condemn everyone of their race(including them) to an afterlife of endless misery go against the dwarven councilors' nature. And if they break domination from that, the vampires can't very well re-dominate since that would also trigger the blue barrier.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on March 01, 2019, 06:13:18 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on March 01, 2019, 07:10:32 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on March 01, 2019, 07:18:42 pm
Post by: DAPARROT on March 01, 2019, 10:08:24 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on March 01, 2019, 10:21:15 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on March 01, 2019, 10:40:50 pm
The vampires dominated them, which lets them give whatever orders they want to the council whenever they wantIt confused me at first, but I think I understand it now:
Panels 7-8 indicate that issuing a demand using domination (a supernatural ability) is against dwarven law, so the vampires would be petrified if they used it within the blue aura. So they're not doing that while within the aura, merely talking. The voters, despite being dominated, would not be compelled to obey spoken commands. The actual compelling is done via a telepathic link (as per the spell, and as demonstrated by lizard-vampire).
So they can't use that telepathic link while they're in the aura... But they're using it in panel 1 to compel the voters to follow spoken commands later. (They're also speaking the orders aloud, but that's probably for our benefit.) They won't use any ability in the aura, just take advantage of a situation they set up. And nobody will be able to dispel the domination (without being turned to stone, anyway).
Post by: Egan_BW on March 01, 2019, 11:21:30 pm
Really I think that the orange barrier is the bigger problem. If only dwarves can pass then Durkon is on his own to get past the defenses. The hammer should be enough to deal with vampires, but he'd burn through spell slots dealing with dominated guards without killing them.
Post by: TD1 on March 02, 2019, 12:00:46 am
Post by: smjjames on March 02, 2019, 12:41:23 am
Post by: Egan_BW on March 02, 2019, 12:45:41 am
Post by: Rolan7 on March 02, 2019, 01:09:58 am
Post by: smjjames on March 02, 2019, 01:13:36 am
The council members don't have any magical senses or anything, so they could probably be ordered around by anyone with fake fangs and red contacts. Or a basic illusion magic.
They'd still have to get past the 'Dwarves only' barrier though.
Post by: TD1 on March 02, 2019, 01:21:34 am
Post by: Egan_BW on March 02, 2019, 01:33:40 am
In this case "dwarves only" Means Durkon and Minrah for sure, probably Sigdi's coming, maybe Hilgya. Plus whatever other dwarves they can convince to help, of course.
But the barrier does mean that barring some Polymorph action, the rest of the Order won't get to be very helpful.
Of course Polymorph is a spell so maybe we'll get to see what all the main characters look like as dwarves! :P
Post by: pikachu17 on March 02, 2019, 09:03:11 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on March 02, 2019, 09:29:42 am
Ah, Durkon actually mentions here (http://here) that the council chamber has three rings. I wonder what the innermost one is.You appear to have linked to http://here rather than one of the comics.
Post by: pikachu17 on March 02, 2019, 09:41:06 am
Post by: Egan_BW on March 02, 2019, 10:48:02 am
Post by: Mathel on March 03, 2019, 01:53:00 am
Post by: smjjames on March 03, 2019, 10:21:20 am
Or is the regen only something higher level vampires have?
Post by: Egan_BW on March 03, 2019, 10:24:04 am
Post by: Mathel on March 03, 2019, 12:27:23 pm
Check complete.
It ran out just before Roy died. But he summoned a badger, a beaver and a rat when Hylgia summoned her chaos giraffes.
Checking on the D&D 3.5 SRD gave me data about bags of tricks.
The important part is, only up to 10 creatures can be drawn in a week and only 1 creature and be drawn at one time.
Seeing how in the 1117 panel, there are 3 creatures from the bag, I guess it is modified. But that is the last use so far. There may still be some creatures left in it.
Seeing the giraffes gave me another idea.
Of course, Hylgia could summon things to attack the vampires directly, dismissing them when they petrify.
Or, she could summon something that deals area damage (A fire elemental) and order it to stand next to a vampire.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on March 03, 2019, 12:30:25 pm
Post by: Mathel on March 03, 2019, 12:45:02 pm
This is all assuming they can cast lv 7 cleric spells, since they both cast ressurection.
1) Bless several cauldrons of water, then pour it on the floor in the chamber.
2) Silence the chamber. You can not give verbal commands if you are silenced.
3) Shape stone under them, placing them into a trench, then continue shaping stone and seal them in there.
4) Put them into tiny cuboids using Wall of Stone.
Ninjad
Metal Slime Hunter, they would get petrified the moment they would cast a spell on a creature.
Post by: Rolan7 on March 03, 2019, 12:48:34 pm
Hylgia and Durkon could also take alternating turns casting high-level attack spells on vampires and then Greater Restoration on one another."But they do explicitly forbid attacking or using any spell or supernatural ability on any creature during a council meeting."
Consent doesn't matter, which removes any chance that Dispel Magic would be considered okay. They can't even cast spells on themselves!
Oh ninja'd
Post by: Rolan7 on March 03, 2019, 12:56:03 pm
Then I checked cleric spells and found a bunch of things that the 2 dwarven clerics could do to mess with the vampires without getting petrified.These are quite clever, and *could* work, but I don't think it's given. Silence doesn't target any creatures, but they do get will saves - it seems like it might count as using a spell on everyone in the room.
This is all assuming they can cast lv 7 cleric spells, since they both cast ressurection.
1) Bless several cauldrons of water, then pour it on the floor in the chamber.
2) Silence the chamber. You can not give verbal commands if you are silenced.
3) Shape stone under them, placing them into a trench, then continue shaping stone and seal them in there.
4) Put them into tiny cuboids using Wall of Stone.
Ninjad
Metal Slime Hunter, they would get petrified the moment they would cast a spell on a creature.
Blessing the holy water would be fine, the spell is only cast on the water, but pouring it such that it flows on the vampires seems potentially attack-y.
Entombing them in stone seems pretty solid, though!
Post by: Criptfeind on March 03, 2019, 01:17:59 pm
But destroying and deforming property with magical abilities wouldn't be my guess for an action that isn't against the law. Although it's totally possible that that turns out to be the exception.
The fact that dwarven undead are an exception to the only dwarf rule already seems like a somewhat glaring flaw in the design of this system, unless it was specifically put in to allow good undead to continue to govern. I mean, presumably Duergar aren't allowed, and in D&D terms I'd call them closer to a dwarf then a vampire dwarf. So maybe the designers of this whole thing were a lot less pedantic then I would expect from dwarves making secure their highest functions of government. Maybe the same dwarves who built Dorukan dungeon built this place.
Post by: Lord Shonus on March 03, 2019, 01:57:19 pm
Post by: Akura on March 03, 2019, 05:59:11 pm
Blessing the holy water would be fine, the spell is only cast on the water, but pouring it such that it flows on the vampires seems potentially attack-y.
Going to agree there that it would be considered an attack, given the SRD mentions that a flask of holy water can be used as a splash weapon(ranged touch attack); you're effectively doing that only with a larger flask.
The Church of the Sudden Skylight seems to be the most likely option at this point. Fits into the narrative and it's got the best name as well.
Post by: Egan_BW on March 03, 2019, 10:46:48 pm
I think that the Church Of The Sudden Skylight folks over on GITP have the best prediction (that Durkon will use his new hammer to smash a hole in the ceiling and let the sun dust the vamps) that I have seen so far. This chamber is explicitly near the surface, and it would be an appropriate callback to Durkon's father.
"Aboot time fer some destruction.", as well.
Post by: Dorsidwarf on March 04, 2019, 08:15:03 am
Post by: JoshuaFH on March 04, 2019, 08:16:57 am
Post by: Mathel on March 04, 2019, 08:34:21 am
I feel like he'd get petrified for that admittedly. After all, the petrification is for violating dwarf laws, not the actual spell casting. And I cant imagine that vandalising the council chamber wouldnt be against some law somewhere
That depens on 2 things.
A) Did dwarven lawgivers think about such things?
B) Is he within the chamber? He could smash the roof from the outside, where he would be unaffected by the barriers.
Which reminds me, if you get a ranged physical attacker between the barriers, they can attack through the blue barrier. V could try to Dimension Door through Orange with Roy or Haley to try it.
Post by: Akura on March 04, 2019, 10:18:57 am
Also, V cannot cast Dimension Door since Conjuration is one of their barred schools. Can't even use scrolls or wands with spells from the barred school.
Post by: Egan_BW on March 04, 2019, 10:23:14 am
Because it only says that you need to be able to see the destination, you could presumably use it to bypass a transparent barrier. So yeah, teleportation magic is really common and obvious to guard against.
Post by: Rolan7 on March 04, 2019, 10:31:52 am
Also, V cannot cast Dimension Door since Conjuration is one of their barred schools. Can't even use scrolls or wands with spells from the barred school.I didn't know that about barred schools, wow! I'm not sure even Use Magic Device would help, the way the rule's written (not that wizards get or typically need UMD). So Haley's by far the party's best bet for teleportation magic, nice. (Hm, I can't remember who actually used the teleport orb V bought)
Though this is actually just an excuse to work with NPCs for transportation, which is cool. I love airships, teleport is too easy.
Post by: Sergius on March 04, 2019, 10:39:55 am
Post by: Mathel on March 04, 2019, 12:16:17 pm
I also wonder whether presenting holy symbols in council chambers and crushing garlic there are against the law.
Post by: Zangi on March 04, 2019, 12:48:30 pm
Post by: smjjames on March 04, 2019, 01:42:33 pm
I've seen one movie or show or something completely subvert the garlic thing with a vampire straight up eating garlic and loving it, so, it'd be funny to have them subvert it one way or another. AFAIK, the garlic thing isn't a DnD rule written in stone and is just a trope.
Post by: Lord Shonus on March 04, 2019, 02:45:00 pm
I feel like he'd get petrified for that admittedly. After all, the petrification is for violating dwarf laws, not the actual spell casting. And I cant imagine that vandalising the council chamber wouldnt be against some law somewhere
That would be OK, as the petrification only lasts as long as the meeting. As long as most of the vamps got dusted, they wouldn't be able to adapt instructions, making their plan relatively easy to foil.
Post by: Criptfeind on March 04, 2019, 02:57:56 pm
I've seen one movie or show or something completely subvert the garlic thing with a vampire straight up eating garlic and loving it, so, it'd be funny to have them subvert it one way or another. AFAIK, the garlic thing isn't a DnD rule written in stone and is just a trope.
In 3.5 D&D vampires being repelled by garlic is a rule, although of course it's up to the GM if they want to enforce it. "Vampires cannot tolerate the strong odor of garlic and will not enter an area laced with it." is what it says in their stat block. So maybe plugging the nose would work. Or maybe they still won't enter an area laced with it. Depends on how you read it.
Post by: Zangi on March 04, 2019, 03:46:44 pm
If garlic still effects undead vampire, then just being in the presence of its aroma will do the trick and they'd need a sealed suit to ward it off.
Post by: smjjames on March 04, 2019, 04:54:39 pm
Post by: scriver on March 04, 2019, 07:34:36 pm
Wouldn't garlic be easy to counter with clothespins or otherwise plugging up their nose? It doesn't harm the vampires, they just hate the smell of it. Then again, it'd bother some mortals too.
I've seen one movie or show or something completely subvert the garlic thing with a vampire straight up eating garlic and loving it, so, it'd be funny to have them subvert it one way or another. AFAIK, the garlic thing isn't a DnD rule written in stone and is just a trope.
Linked this for you (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq3nRBxVD3k)
Post by: Akura on March 04, 2019, 09:21:05 pm
Unless you go heavy with the rules-lawyering and say that since the Mechane is a pirate ship, it's not bound by any laws regarding breaking & entering, and therefore anyone can enter.
Post by: Rolan7 on March 04, 2019, 09:25:52 pm
The Mechane probably isn't a building, but it's certainly a home.
Post by: smjjames on March 04, 2019, 09:36:36 pm
Yeah, there's definitely some house-ruling going on with the vampires, and I'm not talking about the negative soul thing. One original rule being thrown out is the one where vampires cannot enter a place they don't have permission to enter. Otherwise, Gontor would not have been able to raid the Mechane for the teleport orb.
Unless you go heavy with the rules-lawyering and say that since the Mechane is a pirate ship, it's not bound by any laws regarding breaking & entering, and therefore anyone can enter.
That sounds like a really dumb rule, I wonder what the rationale was behind putting that rule in there. If vampires were some sort of construct that you give orders to that they are bound by, sure, but they're supposed to be free-willed undead.
I see a logic loophole where person x didn't say 'not' to come in, therefore, they gave permission via omission.
Post by: Rolan7 on March 04, 2019, 09:45:42 pm
Really plays up the human instinct toward paranoia. Suddenly you don't want to invite your neighbors over, just in case they're one of *them*, you know?
Rule-wise, vampires are a frankly OP template as I think this comic has demonstrated. Strong weaknesses are natural.
Post by: Egan_BW on March 05, 2019, 12:20:41 am
Post by: Mathel on March 05, 2019, 04:40:37 am
I've seen one movie or show or something completely subvert the garlic thing with a vampire straight up eating garlic and loving it, so, it'd be funny to have them subvert it one way or another. AFAIK, the garlic thing isn't a DnD rule written in stone and is just a trope.
Discworld, Carpe Jugulum
Post by: Sergius on March 05, 2019, 10:30:13 am
I've seen one movie or show or something completely subvert the garlic thing with a vampire straight up eating garlic and loving it, so, it'd be funny to have them subvert it one way or another. AFAIK, the garlic thing isn't a DnD rule written in stone and is just a trope.
Discworld, Carpe Jugulum
Spoiler: The Lost Boys (click to show/hide)
Also, in Dracula: The Series, inviting a vampire into your house apparently merely disables the super duper cross that shoots lasers and disintegrates vampires. But in that show, even daylight doesn't kill them, it merely depowers them so they pass as human during the day.
In Buffy, Angel tries to get into a house uninvited to save the owner, and bumps into an invisible literal forcefield, complete with mime action.
Re: D&D stuff:
https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/3e_SRD:Vampire#Vampire_Weaknesses
Post by: Rolan7 on March 06, 2019, 06:55:43 pm
Post by: smjjames on March 06, 2019, 07:05:48 pm
Unless that thing has some sort of long range spit attack (which, if acid, I can see the team exploiting), theres no air cover.
edit: Those on the GitP forum identified it as a nightcrawler (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nightshade.htm#nightcrawler), which doesn't have a ranged attack, but it can summon stuff which can also fly, so, theres the air cover.
Post by: Lord Shonus on March 06, 2019, 07:23:47 pm
edit: Those on the GitP forum identified it as a nightcrawler (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nightshade.htm#nightcrawler), which doesn't have a ranged attack, but it can summon stuff which can also fly, so, theres the air cover.
At-will Unholy Blight, 3/day Cone Of Cold, 1/day Finger Of Death and Mass Hold Monster are fairly potent ranged attacks.
Post by: smjjames on March 06, 2019, 07:32:27 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on March 06, 2019, 07:44:30 pm
Quote from: ZerglingOne
Ouch, a nightcrawler. Those things are nasty. One of those CR 18 but not actually CR 18 monsters.
Post by: Enemy post on March 18, 2019, 01:50:15 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on March 18, 2019, 01:57:17 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on March 18, 2019, 02:40:45 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on March 18, 2019, 03:10:58 pm
Post by: smjjames on March 18, 2019, 10:37:16 pm
Post by: Mathel on March 19, 2019, 01:11:21 am
Quote from: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nightshade.htm#nightcrawler
Spell-Like AbilitiesFinger of death? How? It does not have fingers.
At will—contagion (DC 18), deeper darkness, detect magic, greater dispel magic, haste, invisibility, see invisibility, unholy blight (DC 18); 3/day—cone of cold (DC 19), confusion (DC 18), hold monster (DC 19); 1/day—finger of death (DC 21), mass hold monster (DC 23), plane shift (DC 21). Caster level 25th. The save DCs are Charisma-based.
Post by: Greiger on March 19, 2019, 01:13:14 am
Post by: scriver on March 19, 2019, 01:14:07 am
Post by: pikachu17 on March 19, 2019, 12:30:10 pm
Post by: Imic on March 20, 2019, 04:34:29 pm
Post by: smjjames on March 24, 2019, 08:15:56 pm
Post by: Enemy post on April 01, 2019, 10:24:25 am
Post by: smjjames on April 01, 2019, 11:10:51 am
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 01, 2019, 11:23:50 am
Post by: Egan_BW on April 01, 2019, 11:33:26 am
Post by: JoshuaFH on April 01, 2019, 11:36:58 am
Post by: Akura on April 01, 2019, 12:44:32 pm
Since it's a named hammer, are there stats from a guide or something to estimate the strength of the thing?
Most assumptions point it to being a Hammer of Thunderbolts (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/artifacts.htm#hammerofThunderbolts). Minor artifact, +3 Large(though it might have be conveniently Medium-sized here) warhammer of returning with a damage range of 4d6(+3), with a further effect that if the wielder knows its true nature and wears both a belt of giant strength and gauntlets of ogre power, it becomes a +5 weapon that stacks both the belt's and gauntlet's strength enhancements(only for using the hammer), and can instant-kill any giant(DC20 Fortitude negates death, but not damage) on a single hit. When thrown, it emits a loud noise that stuns all within 90 feet(DC15 Fortitude negates).
Post by: Enemy post on April 15, 2019, 09:20:13 am
Post by: scriver on April 15, 2019, 10:14:39 am
Post by: Mathel on April 15, 2019, 10:33:52 am
Post by: Akura on April 15, 2019, 11:53:49 am
So, what happens if one of the held creatures is moved more than 30ft from the rest by a mage?
Given that the spell rolls a save against it separately, probably nothing. Roy almost certainly fell more than 30ft there.
Hey now, that spell shouldn't affect Belkar since his redemption arc!
You are probably joking, but at the same time there's a lot of confusion on the GitP forum as well, but Hold Monster is a direct upgrade to Hold Person; Hold Person can only affect humanoid creatures(humans, goblins, etc) while Hold Monster affects any living creature.
Post by: pikachu17 on April 15, 2019, 11:55:18 am
Hey now, that spell shouldn't affect Belkar since his redemption arc!Are you suggesting Roy and Elan are monsters?
Post by: TD1 on April 15, 2019, 12:07:31 pm
I refer, of course, to Cohen's Seven Theses concerning monstrosity, which define a monster as an occupier of liminal space, a category defier, an inhabitant of the conceptual borderlands.
Post by: Cyroth on April 23, 2019, 01:17:08 pm
Hey now, that spell shouldn't affect Belkar since his redemption arc!Are you suggesting Roy and Elan are monsters?
Quote from: V
We're all in the monster manual somewhere, are we not?
Post by: pikachu17 on April 23, 2019, 05:23:05 pm
Are humans in the monster manual? In a case which Roy would count as?Hey now, that spell shouldn't affect Belkar since his redemption arc!Are you suggesting Roy and Elan are monsters?Quote from: VWe're all in the monster manual somewhere, are we not?
Post by: Sensei on April 23, 2019, 11:26:47 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on April 23, 2019, 11:59:11 pm
Post by: Sergius on April 24, 2019, 08:19:46 am
Are humans in the monster manual? In a case which Roy would count as?Hey now, that spell shouldn't affect Belkar since his redemption arc!Are you suggesting Roy and Elan are monsters?Quote from: VWe're all in the monster manual somewhere, are we not?
I believe in 3.x edition they were specifically left out of the MM for reasons (but elf/dwarf/etc warriors are). They are in 5e tho: you got your commoners, you got your bandits, you got your cultists... (which is why all the published adventures makes you fight them in that order of ascending CR and why everything ends up being a cult).
Post by: smjjames on April 29, 2019, 10:44:28 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Imic on April 29, 2019, 02:00:31 pm
1162 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1162.html)Durkon’s mother is a legend.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Mathel on April 29, 2019, 03:09:47 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Akura on April 29, 2019, 07:00:44 pm
I'm recognizing many of them that appear in this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1086.html) flashback. For example, the spellcaster in their group is the little girl asking for a blessing on her doll.
...If one were to apply Redcloak's logic to a spell granting access to the Elemental Plane of Carbon, would that provide enough diamonds in case this whole battle goes south? Just in case.
Also, some on the GitP forum have questioned Tinna's presence here. One post I saw said she likely prepared some spells... except she's not a cleric at all. She's a astronomer who joined the temple of Thor because that's the only dwarven faction who would pay someone to stare at the sky all day.
Post by: Egan_BW on April 29, 2019, 07:11:43 pm
...If one were to apply Redcloak's logic to a spell granting access to the Elemental Plane of Carbon, would that provide enough diamonds in case this whole battle goes south? Just in case.
Depending on the GM's mood, you might get some diamonds. There's also a chance that you get a big chunk of graphite.
Post by: Madman198237 on April 29, 2019, 07:58:34 pm
...If one were to apply Redcloak's logic to a spell granting access to the Elemental Plane of Carbon, would that provide enough diamonds in case this whole battle goes south? Just in case.
Depending on the GM's mood, you might get some diamonds. There's also a chance that you get a big chunk of graphite.
This is also a good thing, since if the pen is mightier than the sword than the pencil is at least a good match for swords, right?
Post by: smjjames on April 29, 2019, 09:28:22 pm
"And my axe! And hers! And theirs! And the marching band!"
I'm recognizing many of them that appear in this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1086.html) flashback. For example, the spellcaster in their group is the little girl asking for a blessing on her doll.
...If one were to apply Redcloak's logic to a spell granting access to the Elemental Plane of Carbon, would that provide enough diamonds in case this whole battle goes south? Just in case.
Also, some on the GitP forum have questioned Tinna's presence here. One post I saw said she likely prepared some spells... except she's not a cleric at all. She's a astronomer who joined the temple of Thor because that's the only dwarven faction who would pay someone to stare at the sky all day.
She could have some spells or resources to provide which might not normally be used in combat, but the group will take any advantage they can get.
Re Redcloak using the carbon elementals to create diamonds: I saw a discussion on that and I think someone said that Redcloak said at some point in one of the side stories that he can't just order them to rearrange their molecular structure, or something like that. Either that or the elementals started complaining.
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 30, 2019, 05:07:38 am
"And my axe! And hers! And theirs! And the marching band!"
I'm recognizing many of them that appear in this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1086.html) flashback. For example, the spellcaster in their group is the little girl asking for a blessing on her doll.
<redcloak razor>
Also, some on the GitP forum have questioned Tinna's presence here. One post I saw said she likely prepared some spells... except she's not a cleric at all. She's a astronomer who joined the temple of Thor because that's the only dwarven faction who would pay someone to stare at the sky all day.
She could have some spells or resources to provide which might not normally be used in combat, but the group will take any advantage they can get.
<redcloak razor>
I suspect it's similar to what Roy said about Minrah earlier. This fight might be fantastically out of their league, but what are you gonna do? It's the end of the world, they're adults, and their help might be important.
Also unless I'm mistaken the Thor astronomer isn't in the dwarf arrival scene, theres just a guy with the same glasses as her?
And anyway, the astronomer said she doesnt prepare combat spells, not "I am not a spellcaster" (1099)
Post by: Akura on April 30, 2019, 05:33:06 am
Also unless I'm mistaken the Thor astronomer isn't in the dwarf arrival scene, theres just a guy with the same glasses as her?
First panel, standing right there with Sigdi? She also said she's "not an adventurer", which would imply she does not have adventurer class levels. Granted, she could also be an Adept.
Post by: Enemy post on May 13, 2019, 09:20:04 am
Post by: Egan_BW on May 13, 2019, 09:30:07 am
Post by: Akura on May 13, 2019, 01:10:19 pm
Post by: Xantalos on May 13, 2019, 01:44:33 pm
Post by: smjjames on May 21, 2019, 10:30:57 pm
What is Belkar referring to when he says Gontor got 'White Wolfed'? Some kind of DnD reference I'm not getting?
Post by: Lord Shonus on May 21, 2019, 10:36:06 pm
Post by: smjjames on May 21, 2019, 10:38:03 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on May 21, 2019, 10:59:40 pm
Post by: smjjames on May 21, 2019, 11:06:48 pm
Post by: Enemy post on May 21, 2019, 11:08:46 pm
I get the name reference, but I still don't really see how that works into the 'getting vamped' part, but okay.
Like Shonus said, White Wolf is strongly associated with their Vampire game. It's a bit like if Belkar said he got "Bram Stoker'd" or something.
Post by: smjjames on May 21, 2019, 11:34:59 pm
I get the name reference, but I still don't really see how that works into the 'getting vamped' part, but okay.
Like Shonus said, White Wolf is strongly associated with their Vampire game. It's a bit like if Belkar said he got "Bram Stoker'd" or something.
It probably makes more sense to those more familiar with White Wolf.
Post by: Lord Shonus on May 22, 2019, 06:09:27 am
Post by: Remalle on May 30, 2019, 01:27:23 am
New one is up by the way (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1165.html). God help us if Elan and the bards ever meet up...
Post by: Akura on May 30, 2019, 06:31:33 am
Spoiler: Overanalyzing things again (click to show/hide)
Oh look, Roy got eaten by a monster again.
Post by: Mathel on May 30, 2019, 10:24:44 am
Spoiler: The math (click to show/hide)
Post by: Egan_BW on May 30, 2019, 03:51:23 pm
Post by: Cyroth on May 30, 2019, 04:15:18 pm
Durkon's player said "I'm going to make a ramp up to one of the windows using Wall of Stone." Someone else got out a calculator. The GM quickly said "okay you make it."
Funny enough, I've played with more them one DM that would do that just to spite the rules lawyer.
(As in, somebody who'd break out a calculator just to doublecheck/veto other players actions)
Post by: Greiger on May 30, 2019, 04:22:22 pm
Post by: Sergius on May 30, 2019, 06:11:19 pm
Durkon's player said "I'm going to make a ramp up to one of the windows using Wall of Stone." Someone else got out a calculator. The GM quickly said "okay you make it."
Funny enough, I've played with more them one DM that would do that just to spite the rules lawyer.
(As in, somebody who'd break out a calculator just to doublecheck/veto other players actions)
Doing stuff to spite the rules lawyers is tight!
... hey, wait a second. I'm the rules lawyer!
Post by: Reelya on June 02, 2019, 10:59:31 am
I get the name reference, but I still don't really see how that works into the 'getting vamped' part, but okay.
Like Shonus said, White Wolf is strongly associated with their Vampire game. It's a bit like if Belkar said he got "Bram Stoker'd" or something.
It probably makes more sense to those more familiar with White Wolf.
Or even passing familiar. Vampire: The Masquerade was their only real hit product, so it's the one people know. Lot's of gothy types want to play emo vampires. Quite a lot less people want to play werewolves.
Post by: smjjames on June 07, 2019, 06:45:34 pm
Post by: Dorsidwarf on June 09, 2019, 10:23:18 am
Post by: Akura on June 09, 2019, 11:10:37 am
Quote from: Durkon, a fantasy game adventurer
I liter'lly cannae think o' anythin' less fair than, "Someone kills ye an' gives yer stuff ta someone else!"
---------
Quote from: Blackwing
...Dwarves are weird.
...Maybe we shouldn't show him the upper boards here.
Post by: Cyroth on June 09, 2019, 02:04:12 pm
Post by: pikachu17 on June 17, 2019, 04:46:18 pm
Post by: scriver on June 18, 2019, 03:01:00 am
I mean -- didn't stay dead.
Post by: Liber celi on June 19, 2019, 04:15:45 am
Post by: scriver on June 19, 2019, 08:27:20 am
Post by: TD1 on June 19, 2019, 08:35:41 am
Post by: Madman198237 on June 19, 2019, 10:13:26 am
Huh, it's rather plain. I'm sure you'll be inclined to agree.
This thread has gone through quite the decline recently. The quality is rolling downhill terribly quickly.
Post by: TD1 on June 19, 2019, 10:16:12 am
Post by: Reelya on June 19, 2019, 10:19:56 am
The plane of Inclined planes
A dimension with no flat surfaces? No dice.
Post by: Rolan7 on June 19, 2019, 11:07:29 am
Post by: Felissan on June 19, 2019, 11:22:07 am
Post by: scriver on June 19, 2019, 11:28:08 am
Post by: Rolan7 on June 19, 2019, 11:36:19 am
I hope he likes Rolan
Nothing in that plane is straight
Something something horns- ehhh I'm not touching that.
Post by: Mathel on June 19, 2019, 11:36:29 am
But seriously, how does that plane work?
A planet will have gravity towards the center. An infinite plane (sufficiently thick) will have gravity towards it.
To have gravity askew on every surface, there has to be something weird with it. Perhaps they have a tangential gravity.
Post by: Rolan7 on June 19, 2019, 11:40:25 am
Post by: Egan_BW on June 19, 2019, 11:45:12 am
Post by: Mathel on June 19, 2019, 11:49:04 am
Outer planes are not subject to any laws of physics that would prevent them from doing their job.May I sig this?
Post by: Egan_BW on June 19, 2019, 12:00:18 pm
Post by: pikachu17 on June 19, 2019, 12:02:28 pm
In 3.5, wasn't there a level of hell or the abyss whigh was just a bunch cubes floating around?
Post by: Mathel on June 19, 2019, 12:03:57 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on June 19, 2019, 12:06:05 pm
Post by: TD1 on June 19, 2019, 02:42:19 pm
Post by: Dorsidwarf on June 20, 2019, 07:21:21 am
Post by: Iduno on June 20, 2019, 08:34:16 am
Planes do not necessarily have the same physics as the Material Plane.
In 3.5, wasn't there a level of hell or the abyss whigh was just a bunch cubes floating around?
I know there was in one of the many second editions, because it was in Planescape. Probably carried on into 3.x.
Post by: Rolan7 on June 21, 2019, 10:52:13 am
Dwarves are weird
Post by: scriver on June 21, 2019, 11:05:35 am
Post by: smjjames on June 21, 2019, 09:11:33 pm
You just can't trust them kobolds, no matter what shape they come in
I don't get the reference. Anyhow, seems like it might be set up perfectly for Clan Thundershield to assert itself.
Post by: scriver on June 22, 2019, 04:40:13 am
Post by: smjjames on June 22, 2019, 08:53:02 am
Post by: smjjames on July 01, 2019, 08:41:38 am
Post by: pikachu17 on July 01, 2019, 12:06:53 pm
Post by: TD1 on July 01, 2019, 04:57:59 pm
I legitimately don't know if that's a thing or not, having no cousins myself.
Post by: MagmaMcFry on July 01, 2019, 07:46:20 pm
Post by: lemon10 on July 09, 2019, 03:11:42 pm
Really? Couldn't he at least waited until the guy finished his speech to make his actions unnecessary? Talking is a free action, so its not like there was any reason to steal his thunder in the middle of his heroic speech.His actions were always unnecessary though.
I mean, I don't think you really deserve to make a heroic speech if the only reason you are making one is because you forgot a basic fact of the universe (clerics can dispel magic) or because you forget the basic composition of your team (aka, that you have magic users at all).
Neither of those are really good enough reasons to deserve a heroic speech in my opinion especially since (as talking is a free action) he could have just asked if anyone had a way to get through the barrier instead of just forcing himself through.
Post by: smjjames on July 09, 2019, 03:32:37 pm
Really? Couldn't he at least waited until the guy finished his speech to make his actions unnecessary? Talking is a free action, so its not like there was any reason to steal his thunder in the middle of his heroic speech.His actions were always unnecessary though.
I mean, I don't think you really deserve to make a heroic speech if the only reason you are making one is because you forgot a basic fact of the universe (clerics can dispel magic) or because you forget the basic composition of your team (aka, that you have magic users at all).
Neither of those are really good enough reasons to deserve a heroic speech in my opinion especially since (as talking is a free action) he could have just asked if anyone had a way to get through the barrier instead of just forcing himself through.
Rule of Dramatic in storytelling though.
Post by: scriver on July 09, 2019, 03:45:56 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 11, 2019, 09:50:08 am
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on July 11, 2019, 03:54:07 pm
Post by: Dorsidwarf on July 12, 2019, 05:24:53 am
Post by: Mathel on July 12, 2019, 06:42:04 am
Post by: Cyroth on July 14, 2019, 05:36:18 am
Post by: pikachu17 on July 14, 2019, 01:05:22 pm
Post by: scriver on July 14, 2019, 01:10:21 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on July 14, 2019, 01:11:29 pm
Post by: Imic on July 14, 2019, 07:10:17 pm
Gotta love Loki, too.
Post by: smjjames on July 15, 2019, 02:21:02 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on July 15, 2019, 03:48:48 pm
Oh my fuck, is that what the Far Realm outsiders are?
Post by: smjjames on July 15, 2019, 04:04:45 pm
Sounds like the realm of Lovecrafts Elder Gods dialed to 11. Though theres no indication that such a realm does exist in OOTS and its basically described as another universe onto itself and could clash with OOTSs storyline.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on July 15, 2019, 04:21:51 pm
Post by: smjjames on July 15, 2019, 04:55:54 pm
*Though I didn't see anything regarding using the spell in that way. Might come down to the discretion of the GM.
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 15, 2019, 05:36:39 pm
Post by: scriver on July 16, 2019, 03:19:13 am
I wonder if you could survive if you shifted out to the Far Realm...
Oh my fuck, is that what the Far Realm outsiders are?
*googles it (which is totally not the same as trying to enter it)*
Sounds like the realm of Lovecrafts Elder Gods dialed to 11. Though theres no indication that such a realm does exist in OOTS and its basically described as another universe onto itself and could clash with OOTSs storyline.
...What if what's in the Snarl is the real world, and the OOTS-verse is it's Far Realm? The universe outside the universe?
Post by: pikachu17 on July 16, 2019, 10:51:01 am
I wonder if Hel is Loki's daughter in this mythology.Yes. Pretty sure that's been said explicitly multiple times.
That doesn't explain why an evil tentacle came out of the Snarl and killed people if OOTS-verse is the far realm.I wonder if you could survive if you shifted out to the Far Realm...
Oh my fuck, is that what the Far Realm outsiders are?*googles it (which is totally not the same as trying to enter it)*
Sounds like the realm of Lovecrafts Elder Gods dialed to 11. Though theres no indication that such a realm does exist in OOTS and its basically described as another universe onto itself and could clash with OOTSs storyline.
...What if what's in the Snarl is the real world, and the OOTS-verse is it's Far Realm? The universe outside the universe?
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 16, 2019, 11:17:07 am
Post by: scriver on July 16, 2019, 11:44:34 am
Post by: Rolan7 on July 29, 2019, 09:53:06 am
Post by: Imic on July 29, 2019, 09:58:11 am
Post by: Madman198237 on July 29, 2019, 10:03:17 am
Post by: smjjames on July 29, 2019, 10:33:42 am
One can only hope that they have plan C, whiiiicchhhh, just might be C as in Clan. I've seen predictions on the GITP forum that it'd be a chance for Clan Thundershield to assert itself, thus making a tie and deadlocking it. Hopefully Durkons mom knows some things about council procedure.
Post by: TD1 on July 29, 2019, 10:41:50 am
Post by: smjjames on July 29, 2019, 10:49:08 am
Post by: Akura on July 29, 2019, 12:50:43 pm
Post by: smjjames on July 29, 2019, 01:16:35 pm
Post by: Zangi on July 29, 2019, 02:24:36 pm
Post by: TD1 on July 29, 2019, 02:49:32 pm
Although, if they put it to a vote among the entire Dwarven population, then maybe.
Post by: Zangi on July 29, 2019, 02:55:16 pm
Post by: MorleyDev on August 01, 2019, 02:30:50 pm
Rock...beats paper, I guess? Some pun in there somewhere, I just need to find it.
Post by: pikachu17 on August 01, 2019, 02:43:14 pm
Post by: Akura on August 01, 2019, 04:40:06 pm
1173 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1173.html)
Rock...beats paper, I guess? Some pun in there somewhere, I just need to find it.
Hammer beats table, table beats rulebook, rulebook beats hammer? That pretty much sums up the last two strips.
Post by: TD1 on August 01, 2019, 04:41:58 pm
Post by: Akura on August 01, 2019, 04:58:38 pm
Post by: Cyroth on August 09, 2019, 02:33:06 pm
Post by: scriver on August 10, 2019, 06:53:38 am
Post by: Enemy post on August 15, 2019, 01:42:02 am
Post by: Akura on August 15, 2019, 04:01:13 am
Quote from: Loki
You'd think a goddess of death would have better instincts about when to pull the plug.
Absolutely savage.
Post by: Egan_BW on August 15, 2019, 04:45:08 am
Post by: Enemy post on August 20, 2019, 09:48:10 am
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 20, 2019, 12:22:05 pm
1176. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1176.html)
Hm. I wonder... what did that fadeout mean? Maybe Hel is running out of godflow? Maybe that's why Loki is actually sad?
Post by: Lord Shonus on August 20, 2019, 01:39:24 pm
There's some speculation over on GiTP that she's in the same boat as the Dark One - not certain to survive the time between worlds, but completely unaware of this fact.
Post by: smjjames on August 20, 2019, 09:54:46 pm
Or maybe theres some sort of hibernation state they can do, but then again, if she could do a hibernation state, the lesser gods that popped up in the billion+ worlds would have survived since they could do the hibernation state as well.
Post by: Egan_BW on August 21, 2019, 05:39:07 am
Post by: Hotfire90 on August 26, 2019, 09:46:25 am
Post by: scriver on August 26, 2019, 11:15:23 am
Also Faith is what he calls his penis
Post by: NRDL on September 03, 2019, 06:47:01 pm
Post by: smjjames on September 03, 2019, 06:52:43 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on September 03, 2019, 07:13:49 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on September 03, 2019, 07:16:29 pm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/bard.htm#songofFreedom
I didn't actually remember they could do this, but my 3.5 group only briefly had a bard PC of that level.
We do share a laugh about Countersong sometimes, heh.
Post by: Akura on September 03, 2019, 07:40:19 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on September 03, 2019, 07:47:59 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on September 04, 2019, 08:25:25 pm
Not sure what assisting that ability would do, per se, but...why not?
Post by: Akura on September 04, 2019, 08:47:03 pm
Eh, maybe it's just her assisting him. Wouldn't surprise me if they had some homebrew rules for that.
Not sure what assisting that ability would do, per se, but...why not?
That might work for the song they did for Durkon, but a few panels later they're taking turns singing to unwhammy the dominated counselors with Janna singing without any visible assistance from Thirden.
Post by: smjjames on September 04, 2019, 08:56:02 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on September 09, 2019, 09:56:39 pm
Not your usual food snob.
Post by: Remalle on September 10, 2019, 12:17:38 am
Post by: Akura on September 10, 2019, 04:48:00 am
Also, how many people are there? You've got the main high priests, their bodyguards, and the minor high priests and their bodyguards. Create Food and Water can sustain up to sixty people(if at 20th-level), Heroes Feast up to 20.
How's the Frontarch(current High Priest of Hel) handling all this? Vampires need to feed once a day, but it's been a few days and I doubt any of the other attendees would allow her to feed on them willingly.
Post by: scriver on September 10, 2019, 06:52:01 am
Post by: smjjames on September 10, 2019, 09:57:11 am
If they have access to an 18th-level cleric(which I assume they do), couldn't they cast Miracle to duplicate a Magnificent Mansion spell? Or would the mansion being inside a demiplane(similar to a bag of holding, I suppose) count as leaving the Godsmoot and invalidating the vote?
I saw some on the GitP forum saying that it might violate the quarrantine, so, the answer is probably yes.
Quote
Also, how many people are there? You've got the main high priests, their bodyguards, and the minor high priests and their bodyguards. Create Food and Water can sustain up to sixty people(if at 20th-level), Heroes Feast up to 20.
Can't be much more than 20.
Quote
How's the Frontarch(current High Priest of Hel) handling all this? Vampires need to feed once a day, but it's been a few days and I doubt any of the other attendees would allow her to feed on them willingly.
Some people on the GitP forum theorized that maybe some of the evil god priests or those that voted no might volunteer to feed the vampire. edit: I just remembered that I read that given there'd be all kinds of creatures represented, Heroes Feast would have to accommodate all of that anyway, so, maybe that would spawn some blood for the vampire? dunno.
Post by: scriver on September 10, 2019, 10:17:39 am
It's all in gonna say
Post by: Enemy post on September 16, 2019, 09:41:42 am
Post by: Egan_BW on September 16, 2019, 12:40:55 pm
Post by: pikachu17 on September 24, 2019, 08:51:47 am
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 24, 2019, 09:17:27 am
Post by: Rolan7 on September 24, 2019, 09:27:09 am
(seconding plane of earth too, I hear it's nice all times of year)
Post by: pikachu17 on September 24, 2019, 10:43:55 am
DawWouldn't one of the heavens be better? Don't you have to do something in the Plane of Earth to avoid being crushed?
(seconding plane of earth too, I hear it's nice all times of year)
Post by: smjjames on September 24, 2019, 11:38:03 am
DawWouldn't one of the heavens be better? Don't you have to do something in the Plane of Earth to avoid being crushed?
(seconding plane of earth too, I hear it's nice all times of year)
Haven't seen anybody mention that as an issue on the GitP forum (someone did mention the issue of no farms and stuff though). If she can port to the plane of Earth and is able to consider going there, one could assume she is also able to take whatever neccessary measures that are needed for going in there
Post by: Darkmere on September 30, 2019, 12:49:25 am
Post by: Sergius on September 30, 2019, 07:41:54 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on September 30, 2019, 08:46:57 pm
I'm not aware of spells meant to create breathable air, though. My group's 3.5 go-to in suffocation conditions (such as bags of holding, or low orbit) was Create Water and Waterbreathing, which are both water-subtype.
Does raise the question of how these caverns remain breathable over time, though. Oxygen is the result of photosynthesis, which means flora which are taking in light somehow. An additional ecological rung of nuclear fungi which steadily convert the literally limitless amounts of raw matter into light? Would even explain the caverns.
Impeded magic can still succeed, just with a Spellcraft check of DC 20+level.
Post by: Sergius on September 30, 2019, 08:52:58 pm
EDIT: As far as I know tho, there's no problem breathing in the plane of Earth unless you're actually buried in the dirt.
Post by: smjjames on September 30, 2019, 09:01:01 pm
I derped a moment and thought that Earth was water-impeded, when of course it's air-impeded. Which is also interesting. "Spells and spell-like abilities that use or create air" are impeded - that may or may not be an additional problem if one find's oneself entombed.
I'm not aware of spells meant to create breathable air, though. My group's 3.5 go-to in suffocation conditions (such as bags of holding, or low orbit) was Create Water and Waterbreathing, which are both water-subtype.
Does raise the question of how these caverns remain breathable over time, though. Oxygen is the result of photosynthesis, which means flora which are taking in light somehow. An additional ecological rung of nuclear fungi which steadily convert the literally limitless amounts of raw matter into light? Would even explain the caverns.
Impeded magic can still succeed, just with a Spellcraft check of DC 20+level.
One could also perhaps imagine biological pathways to create oxygen that don't require light. Not sure if theres any known pathways like that, but theres certainly non-organic (or non-biological for that matter) chemical routes. I'd figure that some (most?) of the denziens of the plane of Earth are silicon based or something, so....
Also, you (and sergius and darkmere) mention pockets of air and water, but not fire, I can't imagine there not being pockets of fire (or at least molten rock) in there somewhere. Speaking of, the plane of Water would have pockets of Fire too, but they'd likely take the form of underwater volcanoes, black smokers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrothermal_vent#Black_smokers_and_white_smokers) and other hydrothermal features.
Post by: crazyabe on September 30, 2019, 09:32:14 pm
Large balls of permanently boiling water (or steam) perhaps?I derped a moment and thought that Earth was water-impeded, when of course it's air-impeded. Which is also interesting. "Spells and spell-like abilities that use or create air" are impeded - that may or may not be an additional problem if one find's oneself entombed.
I'm not aware of spells meant to create breathable air, though. My group's 3.5 go-to in suffocation conditions (such as bags of holding, or low orbit) was Create Water and Waterbreathing, which are both water-subtype.
Does raise the question of how these caverns remain breathable over time, though. Oxygen is the result of photosynthesis, which means flora which are taking in light somehow. An additional ecological rung of nuclear fungi which steadily convert the literally limitless amounts of raw matter into light? Would even explain the caverns.
Impeded magic can still succeed, just with a Spellcraft check of DC 20+level.
One could also perhaps imagine biological pathways to create oxygen that don't require light. Not sure if theres any known pathways like that, but theres certainly non-organic (or non-biological for that matter) chemical routes. I'd figure that some (most?) of the denziens of the plane of Earth are silicon based or something, so....
Also, you (and sergius and darkmere) mention pockets of air and water, but not fire, I can't imagine there not being pockets of fire (or at least molten rock) in there somewhere. Speaking of, the plane of Water would have pockets of Fire too, but they'd likely take the form of underwater volcanoes, black smokers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrothermal_vent#Black_smokers_and_white_smokers) and other hydrothermal features.
Post by: Darkmere on October 04, 2019, 03:03:18 am
Also, you (and sergius and darkmere) mention pockets of air and water, but not fire, I can't imagine there not being pockets of fire (or at least molten rock) in there somewhere. Speaking of, the plane of Water would have pockets of Fire too, but they'd likely take the form of underwater volcanoes, black smokers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrothermal_vent#Black_smokers_and_white_smokers) and other hydrothermal features.
The City of Brass on the plane of fire sits on rock, so it makes sense that there's some fire pockets in earth. The planes are more metaphysical concepts than pure, unbroken expanses of <element>. That said, what I've read most recently is 5e, not... whatever 2.5-3? homebrew OotS takes place in, so make of it what you will. That said, clever sapients have managed to carve out existences almost everywhere less hostile than the World Tomb, so it seems reasonable for subterranean dwarfs to be adept at surviving there.
Post by: pikachu17 on October 04, 2019, 07:55:26 am
There's a big difference between can survive there, and is pleasant to be there, after all.
Post by: Enemy post on October 04, 2019, 09:33:12 am
Post by: smjjames on October 04, 2019, 10:09:08 am
Post by: TD1 on October 04, 2019, 10:16:48 am
Post by: smjjames on October 04, 2019, 10:19:48 am
Post by: Sergius on October 04, 2019, 10:54:03 am
Post by: Mathel on October 04, 2019, 10:55:52 am
A cleric must be within one step of their god and she is certainly chaotic, so CE or CN.
I do believe she is CN, not CE though.
Post by: pikachu17 on October 04, 2019, 11:03:20 am
She's not Good though.Is there a rule that you can't Plane Shift to a heaven if you don't fit that alignment?
I don't think so.
In the NG heaven at least, it's unlikely anyone would bother a mother and her baby.
Post by: smjjames on October 04, 2019, 12:50:24 pm
Is there a rule that you can't Plane Shift to a heaven if you don't fit that alignment?
I don't think so.
In the NG heaven at least, It's unlikely anyone would bother a mother and her baby.
There was that evil adventuring party that Plane shifted into the heaven while Roy was there (and promptly got annhailated).
Post by: Akura on October 04, 2019, 04:25:08 pm
Interesting. Hylgia is a cleric of Loki. Loki is listed on OotS wiki as CE.
A cleric must be within one step of their god and she is certainly chaotic, so CE or CN.
I do believe she is CN, not CE though.
It's a bit odd here since Hilgya is certainly capable of Turn Undead, which is a Good-aligned power. The problem is that a Neutral cleric of an Evil god has to take the Evil version of their class powers: Rebuke/Control Undead. It's mentioned that Loki hates undead with a burning passion, which would probably justify the rule deviation. But that doesn't seem to line up with the fact that Loki cares for his daughter Hel, the Northern Pantheon's patron of undead, and clearly would have wanted her to succeed if not for the fact that dealing with the Snarl is a much more important issue and mutually exclusive with Hel's plans.
Post by: Mephansteras on October 04, 2019, 04:53:50 pm
Post by: pikachu17 on October 04, 2019, 04:56:17 pm
Post by: smjjames on October 04, 2019, 05:11:43 pm
As for the hating undead stuff, that's just his sphere or portfolio and caring for family who just happens to be the death goddess is separate from all that for him.
Post by: NRDL on October 16, 2019, 06:28:11 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 16, 2019, 06:59:37 pm
Post by: pikachu17 on October 16, 2019, 07:00:54 pm
more like In Wino VeritasThat is basically what it means anyway.
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 16, 2019, 07:18:37 pm
Post by: pikachu17 on October 16, 2019, 07:53:42 pm
i like my pun betterEh, to each his one.
Post by: Enemy post on October 21, 2019, 11:35:02 am
Post by: pikachu17 on October 21, 2019, 11:38:46 am
Post by: MagmaMcFry on October 21, 2019, 03:25:28 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on October 30, 2019, 12:17:38 pm
Post by: Mathel on October 30, 2019, 12:29:38 pm
Post by: scriver on October 30, 2019, 12:37:36 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 30, 2019, 03:16:00 pm
Post by: Akura on October 30, 2019, 04:26:00 pm
Semi-related, has it been mentioned anywhere why Minrah doesn't have a Dwarven accent?
Might be a more regional accent. Hilgya, that girl giving the rubies to Vaarsuvius, and several others also lack the accent.
Post by: smjjames on October 30, 2019, 07:00:52 pm
Semi-related, has it been mentioned anywhere why Minrah doesn't have a Dwarven accent?
Might be a more regional accent. Hilgya, that girl giving the rubies to Vaarsuvius, and several others also lack the accent.
Most don't I think. Other than Durkon and his mom, I think only Uncle Kandro (deceased) has it. And the red haired dwarf with the grey/white sideburns (don't know their name) seems to have an accent, but not the same accent. That's just the ones which are in more recent comic pages. editwhiletyping: The brewer at the temple of Thor? edit: Yeah, the brewmaster has the same accent, I think.
Post by: smjjames on November 07, 2019, 11:04:51 am
Post by: MorleyDev on November 07, 2019, 11:08:46 am
a) Are there any followers of Thor that don't have the accent?
b) Do any of the ones with the accent not follow Thor?
Post by: smjjames on November 07, 2019, 11:19:28 am
Wait,
a) Are there any followers of Thor that don't have the accent?
b) Do any of the ones with the accent not follow Thor?
a) Minrah doesn't, the high priest in several memory flashbacks doesn't, the 'night shift' priests and the astronomer don't. The current high priest who is at the godsmeet doesn't I don't think.
b) Unknown. We don't know if Kandro and the dwarf with the red hair and white/grey sideburns are followers of Thor. Being a follower of Thor is likely a requirement for temple brewmaster for Thors temple.
Post by: scriver on November 07, 2019, 02:53:53 pm
Post by: NRDL on November 13, 2019, 01:53:12 am
Post by: Akura on November 13, 2019, 05:47:55 am
Post by: Rolan7 on November 19, 2019, 03:03:28 pm
Yeah he is.
Post by: pikachu17 on November 19, 2019, 03:09:36 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 27, 2019, 08:47:01 am
In which the boots come off
Post by: Mathel on November 27, 2019, 09:05:10 am
Also, V got a spell level at that time.
Post by: pikachu17 on November 27, 2019, 10:19:46 am
Post by: Hotfire90 on December 02, 2019, 11:31:49 am
Post by: Mathel on December 02, 2019, 12:21:53 pm
Second step would have been to cast detect poison to know where there are more poisoned objects nearby.
Post by: Imic on December 02, 2019, 12:23:25 pm
Post by: Akura on December 02, 2019, 12:41:41 pm
Can't remember if there were any characters that spoke with green and orange speech bubbles.
PRE-EDIT: I looked back, and the Empress of Blood had a red speech bubble, while the Black Dragon Mother that Vaarsuvius Familicided had a similar dark-purple bubble and Gannji(the dragon-ogre) had a blue one. Given that they also fly, so I heavily suspect these ambushers might be draconic. That's all I can guess at this point.
According to OOTS wiki, both the paladins are level 12+. Either of them could have cast Delay Poison before O-Chul collapsed.
Second step would have been to cast detect poison to know where there are more poisoned objects nearby.
Detect Poison has a limited range, and their attacker was both (Greater) invisible and flying. They couldn't pinpoint them by voice, and I don't know if you can target objects held by creatures with that spell, much less invisible creatures.
Said poison must had a hell of a save DC since it got through O-Chul's save bonus, though it looked like the secondary damage got him.
Post by: Lord Shonus on December 02, 2019, 03:09:25 pm
According to OOTS wiki, both the paladins are level 12+. Either of them could have cast Delay Poison before O-Chul collapsed.
Second step would have been to cast detect poison to know where there are more poisoned objects nearby.
3.5e Paladins are prepared casters, meaning that they have to pick a set of spells from the Paladin list every morning. Of equal importance, they have an extremely limited number of spell slots, having exactly one second-level slot until 16th level, plus one bonus slot if they have a Wisdom between 14-21. Paladins have a high Fortitude save, and these two are on their own with no friendly non-Paladins around. This means that they are extremely unlikely to waste their two (at most) 2nd level slots on Delay Poison instead of more useful spells like Bull's Strength, Undetectable Alignment , or Remove Paralysis.
Post by: scriver on December 03, 2019, 05:46:04 am
Post by: hops on December 03, 2019, 10:32:24 pm
Post by: Akura on December 04, 2019, 09:17:32 pm
These two sound like Invisible Stalkers, which are air elementals and thus can fly. But Invisible Stalkers can't talk...
They can, but only Auran. They're also extraplanar, meaning they're not at threat of soul-annihilation - the green one's last words suggest that it will happen to them if whatever plan they're part of succeeds. That part also suggests that they're not any kind of fiend or other outsider.
Post by: Egan_BW on December 04, 2019, 09:41:01 pm
Post by: scriver on December 05, 2019, 03:43:03 am
Post by: Akura on December 05, 2019, 05:44:37 am
Don't outsiders effectively permadie when killed, regardless of soul-destroying shenanigans? They might simply stop existing when their goal is complete because the spell keeping them as a coherent entity ends.
For Invisible Stalkers in particular, they actually can only be permakilled on the Plane of Air; anywhere else and they simply pop back to the Airplane.
AGENTS OF THE SNARLWORLD
That would be interesting to see. Especially since Miron and Laurin accidentally let some of the Snarl-bits into the world.
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 03, 2020, 02:48:07 pm
Post by: scriver on February 03, 2020, 03:49:57 pm
Post by: pikachu17 on February 03, 2020, 08:21:47 pm
That's totally foreshadowing for my pet theory.Something to do with the snarl?
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on February 03, 2020, 09:01:08 pm
That's totally foreshadowing for my pet theory.
Heh, pet theory.
Post by: scriver on February 03, 2020, 09:38:31 pm
That's totally foreshadowing for my pet theory.Something to do with the snarl?
In the end, the snarl will be vanquished by mr murderpaws
Post by: Rolan7 on February 10, 2020, 10:25:09 am
I kinda like Belkar's arc, especially the part where it took Lord Shojo to actually reach him. (metaphorically?)
Post by: pikachu17 on February 10, 2020, 11:56:57 am
1191 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1191.html)Is that Roy's sister? Why would she be speaking to him? What spell is she using?
I kinda like Belkar's arc, especially the part where it took Lord Shojo to actually reach him. (metaphorically?)
Post by: Rolan7 on February 10, 2020, 12:05:09 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Egan_BW on February 10, 2020, 12:08:10 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Akura on February 10, 2020, 01:52:35 pm
Last panels:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And the GitP forums are down as well.
Post by: Mathel on February 10, 2020, 02:50:24 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lord Shonus on February 10, 2020, 05:44:43 pm
First few panels: Did Roy take Troll as a bonus language?
Last panels:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And the GitP forums are down as well.
Forum's been bad (you know how Bay12 gets those 503s real bad every now and then? GitP was doing that every single day) for the last two months. The Giant finally noticed back in mid-Janurary, and Rawhide (who's a moderator and the IT head over at the forum) determined that the problem was that the poor little server just couldn't keep up with it anymore, so they're buying a new one and migrating the archived forum over to it. Allegedly, turning the forum back on would take the entire website down at this point.
Post by: scriver on February 10, 2020, 05:46:41 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on February 10, 2020, 06:02:12 pm
Post by: Imic on February 10, 2020, 06:13:30 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lord Shonus on February 11, 2020, 05:07:33 am
The GiantITP forums host a very in-depth body of DND 3.5 rules analysis and FAQs, along with the years of OOtS theorycrafting, and I think a lively forum games section. The idea of tossing all that makes me physically uncomfortable, and I haven't even checked it recently!
There's a ton of very good RPG discussion that isn't just 3.5e D&D, or even particular to a single system of any sort. Just losing the "Real World Weapons and Armor" threads (which tend to be (in addition to idle curiosity) "this is the game I have in mind, help me keep it from being too ludicrous" affairs) would be a blow.
Post by: Superdorf on February 11, 2020, 10:53:32 am
Post by: Culise on February 11, 2020, 06:15:11 pm
Post by: Akura on February 12, 2020, 05:59:05 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Enemy post on February 12, 2020, 06:11:00 pm
Weird theory I had today but...Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lord Shonus on February 12, 2020, 06:46:01 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on February 12, 2020, 07:06:50 pm
Post by: Akura on February 12, 2020, 07:10:37 pm
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on February 12, 2020, 07:14:18 pm
Post by: Imic on February 17, 2020, 05:11:32 pm
Quite firmly alive, then. Bit anticlimactic. Forums still down.
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on February 17, 2020, 06:26:41 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rolan7 on February 17, 2020, 11:34:10 pm
SameSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Egan_BW on February 17, 2020, 11:42:44 pm
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on February 18, 2020, 07:24:04 am
Post by: Egan_BW on February 18, 2020, 08:23:30 am
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on February 18, 2020, 08:48:40 am
Post by: Mathel on February 18, 2020, 09:29:11 am
The spell Julia is using seems to be something like that, made easier by piggibacking on an existing magical bond.
In general, if a spell is outright better, it should be higher level, cost more to cast or have lengthened casting time.
Sending:
Spell Level: Cleric 4, Sorcerer/Wizard 5
Components: SMV (copper wire)
Casting time: 10min
Duration: 25 words (twice)
Julia's 'Sending':
Spell Level:Wizard <5
Components: unknown (Blood oath shared by caster and target, not consumed)
Casting time: unknown
Duration: >1 round
It's level is lower, and duration is longer. We know that it requires the caster and target to share a blood oath. There may be other caveats, such as other components or longer casting time.
Overall, I suspect that removing the Blood Oath requirement will increase the spell's level over 5.
Another funny thing. The description of Sending says nothing about sending your image (only about the 25 words), but says that the recipient recognises you. If you remember from previous page, Roy thought it was his dad. So this spell is clearly not sending in it's functionality.
Post by: Lord Shonus on February 18, 2020, 02:18:25 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 18, 2020, 09:03:01 pm
Post by: Sergius on February 20, 2020, 10:47:03 am
For example, a version of Sending could be cast in 1 minute but then you spend the next 9 minutes hearing a recording telling you to wait in line, that XXX has a message for you, while playing some muzak.
Post by: Enemy post on February 22, 2020, 03:22:33 pm
Post by: Hotfire90 on February 26, 2020, 09:32:37 am
Post by: Enemy post on March 05, 2020, 12:14:02 pm
Post by: pikachu17 on March 05, 2020, 01:30:25 pm
1194 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1194.html)Is that a new ship I'm seeing being built?
Post by: scriver on March 05, 2020, 01:45:17 pm
1194 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1194.html)Is that a new ship I'm seeing being built?
I'm guessing you mean a ship because I can't see any ship?
Post by: pikachu17 on March 05, 2020, 03:26:13 pm
A relation'ship' between the halfling and the dwarf. Sorry to confuse you.1194 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1194.html)Is that a new ship I'm seeing being built?
I'm guessing you mean a ship because I can't see any ship?
Post by: Lord Shonus on March 05, 2020, 05:50:37 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on March 05, 2020, 07:44:03 pm
There's way too little ground to build something like that on here. At best, it makes room to develop a ship later. As it stands, Roy/Miko was better supported in their first strip than Belkar/Minrah is here.Didnt they fuck in their first meeting?
Post by: Rolan7 on March 05, 2020, 08:02:07 pm
They did have a surprisingly intimate platonic discussion about how he felt about Durkon's fate. I think their role is probably less romantic, and more that she's an excellent spiritual guide. And that he needs her to work through his remaining issues. She's a better cleric than guard in other words :P
Post by: scriver on March 06, 2020, 01:26:12 am
Post by: MrWiggles on March 09, 2020, 11:50:45 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on March 10, 2020, 12:31:34 am
Really it was mostly a one-sided crush on Roy's part, which was almost entirely unrequited. Probably for the best. I absolutely love her as a character, I even find it easy to empathize with her. I hope she is climbing the mountain.
Edit:
She's a vengeance paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0285.html) before (pretty sure) 5e was a thing. She's not doing it right, and the narrative punishes her for it (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0464.html). But she was doing her best.
Post by: MagmaMcFry on March 10, 2020, 05:54:02 pm
EDIT: The Oracle also mentions Windstriker's "death" has also been caused by Belkar (death technically since its summoner died, so it can't return to the material plane).
Post by: pikachu17 on March 16, 2020, 02:05:13 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on March 23, 2020, 04:26:19 pm
Prestidigitation is the best spell. Particularly when cantrips are unlimited, but even in 3.5e. Cooking? Cleaning? Bathing? Such things are for mortals.
Post by: scriver on March 23, 2020, 04:48:56 pm
Post by: NRDL on March 23, 2020, 04:59:55 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on March 23, 2020, 05:48:06 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on March 23, 2020, 07:14:18 pm
Post by: Enemy post on March 31, 2020, 01:13:43 pm
Post by: pikachu17 on March 31, 2020, 05:14:16 pm
Post by: Enemy post on April 04, 2020, 10:21:32 am
Post by: NRDL on April 09, 2020, 07:06:17 am
Post by: scriver on April 09, 2020, 08:27:31 am
Also, speaking of "they've think they've dealt with the heroes": 1, I can't remember if Lichguy and Redcloak even knows the Order is still alive and coming for them. Do they?
2. I am looking forward to a One-Eye-Paladin-Guy and Lichguy/Redcloak reunion
Post by: Akura on April 10, 2020, 06:17:09 am
Xykon on the other hand, struggles to remember who Roy is, much less the rest of the heroes, even after three encounters with them.
2. I'm more interested in a Mr. Stiffly and Monster-in-the-Dark reunion.
Post by: Mathel on April 10, 2020, 06:47:49 am
1. Recloak probably does assume the Order is alive, since the last time he saw the Order he summoned a Silicon Elemental with orders to "kill the human with the greatsword". However, since he didn't stay to see the result, and the fact he's about as genre-savvy as Elan is, it's a good bet for him to not assume the elemental was successful.
Xykon on the other hand, struggles to remember who Roy is, much less the rest of the heroes, even after three encounters with them.
Let's not forget that the last time Xykon saw Roy, Roy was falling to his death. So Xykon could assume Roy was dead. If he remembers Roy exists, that is.
Post by: Rolan7 on April 17, 2020, 10:38:54 am
I miss Nale's attempts at Sending.
Post by: Lord Shonus on April 17, 2020, 07:31:20 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on April 17, 2020, 08:20:38 pm
Very in character.
Post by: Devastator on April 17, 2020, 09:43:14 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on April 18, 2020, 12:49:15 am
It's rather frustrating, actually, in that Durkon barely argues the point. A direct commandment from his god, along with knowledge about the entire universe which even V would be envious of, and he just stands down.
Very in character.
Roy promised that he'll try to work with Redcloak later, after stopping the immediate "The gods will destroy the world to save it if we don't put a stop to this now" problem. Durkon trusts Roy to keep that promise.
Post by: MagmaMcFry on April 27, 2020, 09:12:40 am
Post by: Egan_BW on April 27, 2020, 09:29:41 am
Post by: Lord Shonus on April 27, 2020, 10:51:31 am
Isn't there always one last merchant who inexplicably hangs around out in the room right before the final battle? (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0966.html)
Post by: Blade Master Model 42 on April 27, 2020, 11:17:45 am
https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/O%27aka_XXIII (https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/O%27aka_XXIII)
Post by: Lord Shonus on April 27, 2020, 01:28:18 pm
I still think it is more of a "reference to a very common trope, with appearance modeled after a specific example" than it is a "reference directly to this character". The Final Merchant is almost ubiquitous.
Post by: pikachu17 on May 11, 2020, 01:17:58 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on May 18, 2020, 08:47:23 am
I still appreciate Belkar doing the animal thing. There's something ironic but sweet about him trying desperately to be "deep" and "a team player" for his own survival, then also having this natural character growth on the side. I feel like it's setting up for "Your ruse was doomed from the start, but you actually learned compassion". The guilt over Durkon plays into that too of course.
Post by: MagmaMcFry on May 19, 2020, 10:24:45 am
Post by: scriver on May 19, 2020, 11:12:56 am
Post by: Akura on May 19, 2020, 11:29:32 am
That symbol Haley is tracing feels so familiar. Looks like writing in Quern.
According to the GitP community she's writing "♥ers"("lovers").
Eew cloud sex
One "joke" from the GitP forum was that Haley is going to be getting pregnant from that... with Belkar's baby since his cloud mass is coming into contract with hers.
Post by: pikachu17 on May 19, 2020, 02:39:27 pm
But Belkar is not touching her, he's just behind her in 3d space. He's also behind Elan, so I guess it would be a threesome if they were touching.That symbol Haley is tracing feels so familiar. Looks like writing in Quern.
According to the GitP community she's writing "♥ers"("lovers").Eew cloud sex
One "joke" from the GitP forum was that Haley is going to be getting pregnant from that... with Belkar's baby since his cloud mass is coming into contract with hers.
Also, the wording of the oracle about Belkar was: "Belkar will draw his last breath—ever—before the end of the year."
What things in 3.5 DnD could he turn into or gain that he would still be alive, while not actually breathing? With that ambiguous wording, I doubt he'll actually stay dead.
Post by: MrWiggles on May 20, 2020, 04:55:27 am
Post by: Lord Shonus on May 20, 2020, 05:01:24 am
Also, the wording of the oracle about Belkar was: "Belkar will draw his last breath—ever—before the end of the year."
What things in 3.5 DnD could he turn into or gain that he would still be alive, while not actually breathing? With that ambiguous wording, I doubt he'll actually stay dead.
That's the "on the record" bit that gets around the memory charm, but there was a lot more to in his aside comments (which have also been prophetic, and the stated reason for the memory charm was to keep clients from getting free prophecies). The other bits are "shouldn't bother funding his IRA" and "should really savor his next birthday cake". Losing the ability to eat cake could be a side effect of becoming some sort of undead, but even liches need cash.
Belkar fans have been trying to find a loophole in that prophecy since it was published. They almost invariably start with a "well, the Oracle is a liar, so" opener, because the general consensus is that the prophecy's too tight.
Post by: Mathel on May 20, 2020, 05:33:22 am
I looked up what IRA is (other than Irish Republican Army), and found it is probably Individual Retirement Account.
This means, that the 3 prophecies combine into.
Belkar will stop breathing permanently before the year ends.
Belkar will not be able to eat the cake for his future birthdays.
Belkar will never retire or will not be able to use money.
This leaves a few options for what will happen to Belkar.
A) Die and never be ressurected.
B) Transform into something that has the following properties:
(Not-breathing)and(Non-eating)and((non-aging)or(unable to use money))
This transformation could lead to:
Undead (likely)
Fiends (unlikely)
Constructs (very unlikely)
Elementals (unlikely)
Fish (likely)
You see, fish do not breathe, they do not eat cake and they do not use money. Yet my own guess is that he will just die and not be resurrected.
Post by: Lord Shonus on May 20, 2020, 05:36:49 am
Post by: andrea on May 20, 2020, 05:37:38 am
The simpler explanation is, of course, that he will die.
Post by: Mathel on May 20, 2020, 05:43:18 am
Time travel to the past.
Post by: MrWiggles on May 21, 2020, 04:39:19 am
Post by: Rolan7 on May 21, 2020, 08:29:41 am
He gets tossed the Greenhilt sword, get sent to the past to undo the evil that is Miku.Fixed that for you
Post by: hops on May 22, 2020, 08:29:02 pm
Post by: Enemy post on May 23, 2020, 12:45:54 am
I'm willing to bet that Belkar gets Snarled, which, in the Oracle's perspective, is pretty much like dying.
Isn’t it worse than death?
Post by: TD1 on May 23, 2020, 05:18:15 am
Post by: Lord Shonus on May 23, 2020, 05:39:23 am
I'm willing to bet that Belkar gets Snarled, which, in the Oracle's perspective, is pretty much like dying.
Isn’t it worse than death?
So far as any mortal or deity knows, those killed by the Snarl are unmade completely, destroying the soul.
Post by: scriver on May 23, 2020, 06:23:48 am
I bet the kitty tries to attack the snarl, Belkar rushes in to save it, and gets Snarled into that other dimension while saving the day.
This is true, except the kitty is going to defeat the snarl. No yarn can stand in kitty's way!
Post by: pikachu17 on May 25, 2020, 12:46:49 pm
You see, fish do not breathe, they do not eat cake and they do not use money. Yet my own guess is that he will just die and not be resurrected.Fish do breathe, and they might be able to eat cake. Be kind of hard for something in the water without arms to use money, but aquatic elves for instance might sell intelligent fish stuff.
Post by: Eschar on May 26, 2020, 12:56:39 am
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 26, 2020, 01:39:26 am
They breathe? I thought they only had gill filtering.There are fish with lungs
Post by: TD1 on May 26, 2020, 01:49:21 am
Post by: Mathel on May 26, 2020, 02:24:45 am
Post by: Egan_BW on May 26, 2020, 02:34:57 am
Post by: TD1 on May 26, 2020, 02:42:34 am
Next time remember to be specific, pleb >:(
This could all have been avoided if you'd specified a particular fish.
Post by: Egan_BW on May 26, 2020, 02:45:29 am
Post by: scriver on May 26, 2020, 05:30:32 am
Secondly. The Swedish word for breathe is "andas", being the verbal form of the word "anda/ande" meaning "spirit". This comes from the common knowledge that your breath is in fact your spirit trying to leave your body (which is why, if you breathe out and then don't immediately suck the soul back in again you will in fact lapse into a coma and die -- tru fax). Spirits are, as we all know, made up of the element of air. Therefore the fish who "breathe" water are in fact not breathing at all, but just sucking and spitting.
Post by: pikachu17 on May 26, 2020, 08:52:40 am
Put a fish in water. Put air in the water. It can breathe. Remove the air. The fish will die of lack of oxygen. Thus proving that breathing does take place in water.
Post by: scriver on May 26, 2020, 08:55:03 am
Post by: Egan_BW on May 26, 2020, 08:58:31 am
Post by: pikachu17 on May 26, 2020, 09:06:25 am
There can't be air and water in the same place simultaneously, that is elementarily impossible ;)Mud is water + earth. Your argument is invalid.
Post by: scriver on May 26, 2020, 09:20:02 am
The fact that more than four materials exists would imply that elements are capable of mixing.
Yes but then they are no longer air and water
Also they're not in the same place they're just really tight together. Like how sand is actually just tiny motes of earth surrounded by even tinier motes of fire (which hardens the earth and makes it appear crystalline from the outside)
Post by: TD1 on May 26, 2020, 10:58:04 am
A tuna, no matter what it takes into its body, can therefore never breathe. A lungfish can.
Post by: pikachu17 on May 26, 2020, 11:07:55 am
Breathing, by definition, is the action of lungs. Breath is that which has been moved by lungs.Breathing has multiple definitions, in which one is what a fish does with its gills.
A tuna, no matter what it takes into its body, can therefore never breathe. A lungfish can.
Post by: Mathel on May 26, 2020, 12:30:35 pm
Using gills is not "drawing breath", even if by some definition, it is breathing.
Post by: Kagus on May 27, 2020, 05:26:16 am
Hence the world on the inside of the tear: That's us. (And why the purple quiddity has a chance of sustaining this world, new content keeps things interesting :P)
Things that don't make sense for this: No fish sensed by the psion; the globe on the other side doesn't have continents that match Earth's, which is a detail I figure they'd actually put that kind of effort into.
Also; Belkar becomes a construct made of solid gold. 1) Doesn't breathe, 2) Can't eat cake, 3) No sense investing in a retirement account--made of gold anyways. You heard it here first, folks.
Post by: Lord Shonus on May 27, 2020, 06:57:14 pm
Things that don't make sense for this: No fish sensed by the psion; the globe on the other side doesn't have continents that match Earth's, which is a detail I figure they'd actually put that kind of effort into.
Of equal importance:
Quote from: The Giant
So no, it STILL isn't Earth in the Rift. It will never be Earth in the Rift. Earth will never show up.
Post by: Kagus on May 28, 2020, 12:34:53 am
Post by: Rolan7 on May 29, 2020, 11:14:54 am
Oop, 1203 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1203.html)
This is Going well!
Post by: Egan_BW on May 29, 2020, 03:46:20 pm
It's paratext! And there's a legitimate discussion about how it should be considered compared to what's actually in the text. For example, in Har-Is it cheating that I decide that on a case-by-case depending on if I agree with the author?
Post by: scriver on May 30, 2020, 06:26:47 am
Also we're getting close to kittenbowl people! Hype it up! We're going to be seeing some royal yarn handling in here! It is happening!
Post by: NRDL on May 30, 2020, 07:14:17 am
Post by: Egan_BW on May 30, 2020, 07:15:49 am
Post by: scriver on May 30, 2020, 07:25:00 am
Ther-who? ;D
Tera-watt?
Post by: TD1 on May 30, 2020, 07:46:49 am
Post by: Rolan7 on May 30, 2020, 08:16:19 am
I can't remember how she ended up, but I have a feeling it wasn't good, so I'm just gonna go ahead and assume she got the bestest best ending there was and there's nothing you can say that can convince me otherwise.(https://i.imgur.com/YAGpXPd.png)
Post by: Rolan7 on June 09, 2020, 03:06:14 pm
Welp!
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 09, 2020, 03:08:41 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on June 09, 2020, 03:22:27 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 09, 2020, 03:55:20 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Enemy post on June 09, 2020, 05:07:38 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on June 10, 2020, 10:21:58 am
Post by: NRDL on June 11, 2020, 01:55:44 am
Post by: Rolan7 on June 22, 2020, 04:36:06 pm
I don't remember goblins being that tall in the OoTS-verse. They're supposed to be 3-3.5ft tall, and also Small while dwarves are Medium. But making goblins taller than dwarves appears to be an artistic choice from the very first strips. They're certainly [NARROW], but so's everyone else in OoTS ;)
Post by: NRDL on June 22, 2020, 04:40:53 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on June 22, 2020, 04:44:44 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on June 22, 2020, 06:26:22 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on June 22, 2020, 06:50:33 pm
Post by: TD1 on June 23, 2020, 03:11:45 am
Post by: scriver on June 23, 2020, 03:57:02 am
Post by: TD1 on June 23, 2020, 04:12:38 am
Post by: Lord Shonus on June 23, 2020, 12:17:06 pm
Post by: Sergius on June 23, 2020, 11:42:21 pm
1205 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1205.html)
I don't remember goblins being that tall in the OoTS-verse. They're supposed to be 3-3.5ft tall, and also Small while dwarves are Medium. But making goblins taller than dwarves appears to be an artistic choice from the very first strips. They're certainly [NARROW], but so's everyone else in OoTS ;)
I think Dwarves are supposed to be as short as the Small races, but because they're stronger they're considered Medium (for weapon usage, etc). Usually they're described as "stocky" but that can mean anything from just more muscular to actually being wider than tall. I suppose by the same token a Small race can be taller but weaker.
Post by: Kagus on June 24, 2020, 08:24:25 am
Anyone notice that Durkon doesn't seem to have any footprints?
Post by: andrea on June 24, 2020, 08:44:17 am
You can actually see footprints... beneath his feet.
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 24, 2020, 09:38:53 am
Uh...What do your elven eyes see?
Anyone notice that Durkon doesn't seem to have any footprints?
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 24, 2020, 10:59:01 am
Post by: Rolan7 on July 06, 2020, 10:26:49 am
Aw...
Spoiler: The minorest of spoilers but hey (click to show/hide)
Post by: scriver on July 06, 2020, 10:41:31 am
Also gods really are the worst partners. Here I am trying to communicate all they give you in return is a bunch of vague "signs" and coincidences. So passive aggressive.
Post by: Eschar on July 06, 2020, 12:40:50 pm
Also gods really are the worst partners. Here I am trying to communicate all they give you in return is a bunch of vague "signs" and coincidences. So passive aggressive.
Wait til they kill your kids for a bet and then do communicate with you... by saying "shut up, that's why."
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 06, 2020, 01:06:07 pm
Post by: Akura on July 06, 2020, 03:09:44 pm
Post by: Zanzetkuken The Great on July 08, 2020, 10:17:19 am
Post by: Madman198237 on July 08, 2020, 10:29:33 am
Why didn't Durkon just mention he was a bit dead at the time he was talking to Thor?
I think deities aren't, strictly speaking, supposed to go about reviving dead followers out of hand, right?
Post by: Zanzetkuken The Great on July 08, 2020, 10:51:21 am
Why didn't Durkon just mention he was a bit dead at the time he was talking to Thor?
I think deities aren't, strictly speaking, supposed to go about reviving dead followers out of hand, right?
Wasn't revived by Thor, but by the priests. I was saying with the recent panel of 'my god never talked to me' from Redcloak, why Durkon didn't just mention 'I only spoke to Thor because I was dead at the time'.
Post by: Mathel on July 08, 2020, 02:05:03 pm
Truly Resurrected by a cleric of Loki, to be precise.Why didn't Durkon just mention he was a bit dead at the time he was talking to Thor?
I think deities aren't, strictly speaking, supposed to go about reviving dead followers out of hand, right?
Wasn't revived by Thor, but by the priests. I was saying with the recent panel of 'my god never talked to me' from Redcloak, why Durkon didn't just mention 'I only spoke to Thor because I was dead at the time'.
Post by: Akura on July 08, 2020, 03:58:03 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on July 16, 2020, 09:40:11 am
Just take the high roll, don't worry about it
Post by: TD1 on July 16, 2020, 10:25:20 am
Dust is at least partly composed of human skin.
Another god can hurt a god.
A human can't.
Human skin can't hurt a god.
God skin can.
God skin in dust can cause a god to blink.
Post by: Akura on July 28, 2020, 03:25:59 pm
I wonder how the Twelve are going to take Redcloak's insistence on keeping Azure City.
Also, was that a Therkla reference?
Post by: Rolan7 on July 28, 2020, 04:47:34 pm
I think this scene is well constructed. Both sides are basically correct, and there's a potential of everybody winning through compromise. Redcloak's angry but listening, and Durkon is patiently listening and engaging in return. It's quite lovely. Perhaps it will eventually recover from the upcoming bonehead interruption.
Post by: TD1 on July 28, 2020, 05:07:58 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on July 28, 2020, 06:56:05 pm
Post by: MagmaMcFry on August 03, 2020, 12:07:29 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 03, 2020, 12:13:55 pm
1 2 0 9 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1209.html)Looks like negotiations have collapsed
Post by: Remalle on August 03, 2020, 12:25:23 pm
Post by: scriver on August 03, 2020, 12:56:08 pm
Post by: JoshuaFH on August 03, 2020, 01:18:53 pm
Post by: MagmaMcFry on August 03, 2020, 02:33:22 pm
Post by: hops on August 06, 2020, 08:36:43 am
Post by: Akura on August 06, 2020, 03:34:34 pm
Implosion seems like a pretty nasty spell to be caught off-guard with, so I'm gonna laugh if Durkon dies again, to a cleric he was politely chatting with no less.
I'd give Durkon a 2/3 chance of surviving it, actually. Given what I've seen of Redcloak, I'd say his Wisdom score would be the absolute minimum for casting 9th-level spells, assuming that Implosion isn't his 9th-level domain spell(it is for the Destruction domain, assuming Redcloak has that domain) and also assuming that domain spell are exempted from ability score requirements(the SRD isn't clear on that one, so I don't know).
Assuming the minimum Wisdom to cast Implosion, then it would have a minimum save of 23(10 + 9th-level + +4 WIS bonus). A Fortitude save negates the effect and Implosion can only target a creature once per cast. Durkon is a Dwarf Cleric. His Cleric levels would give him either a +9 or +10(depends on how far his two recent resurrections have lowered his level). And as a Dwarf, he has a +2 to Constitution(and it's probably fairly high as well), and a racial +2 to saves vs spells. At an absolute minimum, he'd save on a roll of 11, but that's assuming a base CON of 10(12 because Dwarf), and ignoring the possibility of any magical items or effects he might have affecting him. At this point in the adventure, it might be good to assume both a higher Constitution and that he did buff himself up in case Redcloak tried to gank him, hence why I'm giving him better odds.
People on the GitP forums have noted that Durkon should still be under the effects of Wind Walk and that if he were in cloud form he'd be immune to Implosion... except that he's in solid form and it takes 5 rounds to change form and Implosion is an instantaneous effect.
Post by: Rolan7 on August 06, 2020, 03:50:10 pm
Durkon probably had pretty good odds though yeah. Being caught by surprise doesn't matter either, he just got unlucky (if I'm right).
Post by: Egan_BW on August 06, 2020, 03:55:35 pm
So presumably something is going to happen at the start of next page to change the situation. Maybe making his save, maybe going mist-form, maybe Minrah doing something.
Post by: Lord Shonus on August 06, 2020, 04:05:32 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on August 06, 2020, 05:48:58 pm
Post by: hops on August 07, 2020, 03:57:10 am
Post by: Rolan7 on August 07, 2020, 06:53:17 am
Though maybe we do, and Redcloak uses the rest of the page to finally contact The Dark One about the offer. It's a good offer, maybe he just calculated that his safest response was to sideline Durkon for a bit while meeting his god.
It's not like Thor is going to retract the offer over yet another death, considering the supposed stakes, and Redcloak harbors a lot of hatred despite his rational demeanor.
Post by: scriver on August 07, 2020, 07:12:49 am
Post by: Mathel on August 08, 2020, 12:04:48 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on August 08, 2020, 03:21:42 am
Post by: lemon10 on August 08, 2020, 04:42:07 am
Is there any death more honorable than that in the direct service of your god, delivering their literal message to its destination?It isn't about honor, its about the technicalities of how you die, if you die with amazing honor peacefully in your bed... you go to hel.
If you die from an arrow in the skull after you broke into someones house and started murdering their puppies you would presumably go to valhalla.
Now, the technicalities are vague given that we see scenes of the gods arguing over who should go where, but both Thor and Hel have pretty reasonable arguments about where he should go based on the fact that an enemy killed him vs him not dying in actual battle.
Personally I would argue that Hel has a better claim, but I'm not sure how it will play out given neither Hel or Thor are going to be willing to give up on his soul.
Post by: Rolan7 on August 08, 2020, 07:02:21 am
Unless the earlier case was only due to Hel's distraction, but I don't think that was set up.
Thor and Hel argued over souls here (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html) and here (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0874.html), but they seem more like gags than useful clarifications. It seems weird that rebooting the world counts as "dishonorable death" for every dwarf regardless of what they're doing at the time, yet getting murdered during a marriage proposal is fine. Maybe it really is a matter of Hel not paying attention.
Post by: scriver on August 08, 2020, 07:36:38 am
Post by: Kagus on August 08, 2020, 07:53:49 am
I mean I was just trying to make a joke about arguments being like fights but you know. With sissy wind noices instead of actually fighting one anotherDidn't your parents ever tell you? They're not fighting, they're discussing!
Now go to your room.
Post by: Lord Shonus on August 08, 2020, 07:54:21 am
Is there any death more honorable than that in the direct service of your god, delivering their literal message to its destination?It isn't about honor, its about the technicalities of how you die, if you die with amazing honor peacefully in your bed... you go to hel.
If you die from an arrow in the skull after you broke into someones house and started murdering their puppies you would presumably go to valhalla.
Now, the technicalities are vague given that we see scenes of the gods arguing over who should go where, but both Thor and Hel have pretty reasonable arguments about where he should go based on the fact that an enemy killed him vs him not dying in actual battle.
Personally I would argue that Hel has a better claim, but I'm not sure how it will play out given neither Hel or Thor are going to be willing to give up on his soul.
The Giant has gone into this on the forum, and you have to be acting honorably when you die. He specifically calls out "a politician being assassinated for his policies (as long as he intends to do what he says) and "freezing to death while trying to get food to a starving village" as honorable.
With that in mind, it is easy to parse the logix.
When Hilgya killed him, Durkon was trying to do The Right Thing and make up for an earlier lapse in character. Thus it was an honorable death.
Similarly, if he dies here it will be as a result of him honorably carrying out a mission given by his god. Thus honorable.
Post by: hops on August 08, 2020, 07:49:39 pm
Post by: Enemy post on August 11, 2020, 10:16:25 am
Post by: MagmaMcFry on August 11, 2020, 10:37:54 am
Post by: Egan_BW on August 11, 2020, 10:42:27 am
Post by: scriver on August 11, 2020, 11:06:11 am
fizzle
Post by: Egan_BW on August 11, 2020, 11:13:08 am
Post by: TD1 on August 11, 2020, 11:28:10 am
Durkon can throw some sick burns under pressure.Who is this Durkon? Surely you mean Burn-on?
Post by: Akura on August 11, 2020, 05:18:34 pm
Durkon: "I call my proposal 'Giant Dwarf with a Hammer.'"
Post by: Rolan7 on August 18, 2020, 12:41:53 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lord Shonus on August 18, 2020, 01:51:49 pm
1211 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1211.html)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Egan_BW on August 18, 2020, 01:53:49 pm
Post by: Akura on August 18, 2020, 03:21:41 pm
It's also not likely to be a spell a cleric engaged in multiple, Epic-level combat encounters for weeks on end would reserve a spell slot for, Heightened or otherwise.
Post by: Mathel on August 19, 2020, 01:38:26 pm
Command: "Answer all my questions truthfuly and in the way I mean them."
Post by: JoshuaFH on August 19, 2020, 04:16:11 pm
What neither party seems to have noticed though, is the fact that goblins were made as a persecuted race for a reason. In order for each god's clerics to have a viable source of experience in order to level up and better serve their god, they made Goblins and other creatures for the express purpose of being Exp fodder. Elevating the Goblin races out of this role just means the gods would have to create another race to serve the same role, but this time with goblins among the Persecuting races, essentially just repeating history. I don't think there's an pacifistic resolution to this problem, or it'd have been pursued already.
Post by: Enemy post on August 19, 2020, 04:35:45 pm
What neither party seems to have noticed though, is the fact that goblins were made as a persecuted race for a reason. In order for each god's clerics to have a viable source of experience in order to level up and better serve their god, they made Goblins and other creatures for the express purpose of being Exp fodder. Elevating the Goblin races out of this role just means the gods would have to create another race to serve the same role, but this time with goblins among the Persecuting races, essentially just repeating history. I don't think there's an pacifistic resolution to this problem, or it'd have been pursued already.
I'm not sure Redcloak would care. As long as goblins weren't the XP fodder, I suspect he'd be fine with something else filling the role.
Post by: lemon10 on August 24, 2020, 03:50:24 am
What neither party seems to have noticed though, is the fact that goblins were made as a persecuted race for a reason. In order for each god's clerics to have a viable source of experience in order to level up and better serve their god, they made Goblins and other creatures for the express purpose of being Exp fodder. Elevating the Goblin races out of this role just means the gods would have to create another race to serve the same role, but this time with goblins among the Persecuting races, essentially just repeating history. I don't think there's an pacifistic resolution to this problem, or it'd have been pursued already.The most obvious solution would be making the fodder races non-sentient monsters of some kind, which would obviously be far less problematic.
It might take some fine tuning to get it all proper and have monsters fill the same location at the frequencies as goblins and while still being about as difficult to kill, but I don't see any fundamental reason it can't be done.
I figure that the real reason they are using sentiments is because... why not?
Having greater variety of for your dudes to kill is good right? And if a few million sentiments die every generation so what? Is it better for them not to live at all? Plus, they get to go to a nifty afterlife after they die (presumably), so does the fact that their life might not be quite so good as that of people from other races really matter that much?
Post by: Rolan7 on August 24, 2020, 03:59:31 am
Post by: scriver on August 24, 2020, 04:46:27 am
What neither party seems to have noticed though, is the fact that goblins were made as a persecuted race for a reason. In order for each god's clerics to have a viable source of experience in order to level up and better serve their god, they made Goblins and other creatures for the express purpose of being Exp fodder. Elevating the Goblin races out of this role just means the gods would have to create another race to serve the same role, but this time with goblins among the Persecuting races, essentially just repeating history. I don't think there's an pacifistic resolution to this problem, or it'd have been pursued already.The most obvious solution would be making the fodder races non-sentient monsters of some kind, which would obviously be far less problematic.
It might take some fine tuning to get it all proper and have monsters fill the same location at the frequencies as goblins and while still being about as difficult to kill, but I don't see any fundamental reason it can't be done.
I figure that the real reason they are using sentiments is because... why not?
Having greater variety of for your dudes to kill is good right? And if a few million sentiments die every generation so what? Is it better for them not to live at all? Plus, they get to go to a nifty afterlife after they die (presumably), so does the fact that their life might not be quite so good as that of people from other races really matter that much?
Also higher level adventurers need more sofisticated villains. Can you imagine if Psykon was just a hungry rampaging bear?
Post by: Enemy post on August 24, 2020, 08:55:39 am
Post by: Lord Shonus on August 24, 2020, 02:30:35 pm
Or they could use the rules for noncombat XP which Book of Exalted Deeds made canonically for 3.5 but were already sorta a thing.
Non-combat XP was an explicit part of the 3.5e Dungeon Masters Guide, where it is advised to award experience based on the difficulty using the same concept as CR.
Post by: SOLDIER First on August 24, 2020, 04:29:51 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on August 24, 2020, 04:35:15 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on August 24, 2020, 04:39:52 pm
Post by: Akura on August 24, 2020, 05:58:06 pm
Is it canon that goblins are fodder races?
Spoiler: I haven't read Start of Darkness, but from what I've heard (click to show/hide)
Post by: SOLDIER First on August 24, 2020, 06:30:35 pm
Post by: Enemy post on September 02, 2020, 11:57:15 am
Post by: Egan_BW on September 02, 2020, 12:37:53 pm
Post by: Enemy post on September 02, 2020, 02:50:40 pm
Spoiler: Theory (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lord Shonus on September 02, 2020, 03:21:27 pm
Post by: Remalle on September 11, 2020, 02:57:27 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on September 11, 2020, 03:09:33 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on September 11, 2020, 03:51:08 pm
Break LoS, Break LoS!Then escape its racial bonus to Listen checks while wearing heavy armor!
Edit: Oh also, welcome back Remalle? Your avatar isn't working but otherwise good to see you.
Post by: Remalle on September 11, 2020, 03:54:30 pm
Quote from: Rolan7 link=topic=129583.msg8189280#msg8189280
Edit: Oh also, welcome back Remalle? Your avatar isn't working but otherwise good to see you.I never left! I just never bother posting, haha.
Post by: scriver on September 12, 2020, 04:47:59 am
Post by: Caz on September 13, 2020, 07:30:18 am
Welp, I've got about a hundred new strips to read.
Post by: Enemy post on September 21, 2020, 01:55:50 pm
Post by: Akura on September 21, 2020, 02:48:22 pm
Spoiler: Interesting bit about Team Dwarf Cleric's preparations (click to show/hide)
Post by: JoshuaFH on October 04, 2020, 06:33:25 am
Post by: MrWiggles on October 04, 2020, 08:00:30 am
Why do updates take so long? It's been like two weeks, did Rich hurt his hand again?He has an unspecified chronic illiness that flares up every now and then.
Post by: Remalle on October 05, 2020, 12:29:20 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: scriver on October 05, 2020, 12:36:56 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: MagmaMcFry on October 07, 2020, 09:58:26 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also I wish the archive had thumbnails so I could find previous scenes quickly.
Post by: Kagus on October 07, 2020, 11:07:58 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
::think:: Post by: MrWiggles on October 08, 2020, 01:17:36 am
Post by: Akura on October 08, 2020, 04:25:17 am
Post by: Mathel on October 08, 2020, 10:21:13 am
Post by: MrWiggles on October 09, 2020, 08:00:01 am
Can you still cast spells? Such as Stone Shape?As long as it doesnt require a verbal compotent, probably. Cant talk while melding or moving through stone.
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 09, 2020, 03:13:29 pm
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 09, 2020, 03:23:16 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 09, 2020, 04:25:23 pm
Post by: Sergius on October 14, 2020, 10:57:06 am
Can you still cast spells? Such as Stone Shape?As long as it doesnt require a verbal compotent, probably. Cant talk while melding or moving through stone.
There's no restriction on the spell against verbal components, only that
EDIT: You can hear just fine in 3E, the hearing part was added in 5E.
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 14, 2020, 11:28:11 am
Post by: Rolan7 on October 21, 2020, 08:25:55 pm
...
Post by: scriver on October 22, 2020, 12:34:08 am
Post by: Greiger on October 22, 2020, 01:43:08 am
EDIT: Oh did we leave the range of the spell?
Post by: scriver on October 22, 2020, 03:24:51 am
Post by: Rolan7 on October 22, 2020, 08:14:25 am
As an explanation, those inside the spell range weren't able to hear anything either. That's why he turned to face Minrah as he "called" her, and gestured with his hands. Then presumably kept speaking in order to detect the edge of the spell.
In fact... ooh, he cast it on the warg, that's smart. That grants a will save, but if successful the spell follows and emanates from the creature so they can't just run off. I don't think anybody else gets any save, so for the next 15 (or however many) minutes that warg might barge into a scene and seriously disrupt vocal spellcasting. I'm sure Batcloak has a Silent Dispel Magic prepared, but still.
Post by: Akura on October 24, 2020, 04:33:04 am
Spoiler: Fun guessing what'll happen next (click to show/hide)
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 24, 2020, 04:46:09 am
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 24, 2020, 04:56:31 am
I dont think there'll be any epic encounters. He cleared the dungeon already. Says as muchI think it's likely this is one of the dungeons they only think has been cleared (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1189.html)
Post by: scriver on October 24, 2020, 05:10:20 am
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 24, 2020, 06:31:18 am
Post by: Akura on October 24, 2020, 03:35:26 pm
Anyone got any theories on who those voices belonged to? The colouring makes me think ofdemons, sorry, fiends, like those three lords Varsaw has a pact with.
The coloring makes me think of dragons, actually. The Empress of Blood, Black Dragon Mother, and Enor the Half-Dragon/Half-Ogre all had similar coloration of their speech bubbles. Light-colored backgrounds with a darker shade for text and outline. Possibly could also be an outsider or elemental of some kind, since one of the mentioned no longer existing rather than simply dying.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 01, 2020, 08:44:17 am
I kinda love this gate-location's gimmick
Post by: Egan_BW on November 01, 2020, 12:52:41 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 05, 2020, 02:49:23 am
Post by: Enemy post on November 17, 2020, 11:39:24 pm
Post by: scriver on November 18, 2020, 05:49:09 am
Post by: Akura on November 18, 2020, 06:03:25 am
(Source: the book Number the Stars, I think?)
Post by: Rolan7 on November 18, 2020, 07:11:51 am
Post by: MorleyDev on November 18, 2020, 08:23:28 am
Post by: scriver on November 18, 2020, 08:27:09 am
Post by: Mathel on November 19, 2020, 04:42:04 am
I certainly hope that's dust of disappearance his showering the ground with there and not just sandWhat if it is cat poop? And at the end of the trail, there will be a stash of broken rotten eggs.
First to distract the dog, then to damage its nose.
Post by: Enemy post on November 27, 2020, 07:48:42 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on November 27, 2020, 08:30:28 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 27, 2020, 08:36:35 pm
(I didn't recognize it as a portal effect, but I think you're right!)
Post by: scriver on November 28, 2020, 05:16:11 am
Also did they just leave the bird behind. How rude.
Post by: Cyroth on November 28, 2020, 05:42:05 am
Post by: Kagus on November 30, 2020, 07:17:23 am
And if the insides are shuffling themselves around every time someone enters, wouldn't that mean that it effectively doesn't matter which door you go into, if it's going to randomize the content anyways? Which would mean that all the X-ing of the doors is meaningless.
But... It can't be just shuffling the dungeon contents, because the gate cannot be moved.
Maybe they're all red herrings, and the portal trap just opens up into a newly-created elemental demiplane of dungeoneering, while the real dungeon lies underneath/behind the portal they're crossing over?
Post by: Mathel on November 30, 2020, 08:55:12 am
However, the dungeon can't be generated anew every time the line is crossed. It would split parties and when someone reenters the same dungeon, they notice it is different.
If I was going to do this, I would not bet most of my security on a single spell. Sure, I can't move the gate, but I can hide it.
I would make the walls of the real dungeon look like rock, but when someone tries to dig through, it turns out to be only lining iron and a thin sheet of lead. Layered Rock|Iron|Lead|Iron|Rock. So no easy digging or scrying through it.
The gate would not be in the dungeon, however. It would be sealed into a random blind spot of the dungeon wall. Reasonably far from the entryway, so that it is not at the first place adventurers try to dig, but not next to the final chamber.
Post by: Egan_BW on November 30, 2020, 03:53:36 pm
Post by: crazyabe on December 01, 2020, 02:40:16 am
Post by: Mathel on December 01, 2020, 04:25:30 am
However, it is entirely possible that the second part of crazyabe's post is true.
About other fortresses having the gate accesible, I remember that in the Pyramid, it was sealed in a lead column. Accesible but hidden. But there is no real reason for why the gates should be accesible. The whole point is to guard them from being destroyed. So why not just seal them?
Post by: Kagus on December 01, 2020, 05:48:40 am
But there is no real reason for why the gates should be accesible. The whole point is to guard them from being destroyed. So why not just seal them?
You're forgetting the drama!
Post by: Akura on December 01, 2020, 07:04:53 am
Post by: Mathel on December 01, 2020, 07:28:47 am
If I was one of those, who were to hide the gate, I would place it in an adamantine sphere, encase that in a lead sphere, then pile a mountain of mostly non-commercial rock. There would be some galena and a small amount of other ores to make it look natural, but not enough to make it a viable mining spot for anything. Then I would have a castle built on top of it and start a city around it. None of the people involved with the castle and city should know that there is something important in the mountain.
The mountain would be created with repeated usage of Wall of Stone.
As a 20th level caster, I could get almost 5,9 m3 per casting. With minimum Intelligence of 15 to cast Wall of stone, I would get 4 of each type or relevant slot, 20 slot total. Filling all possible with Wall of Stone, I could cast it 20 times/day, to build almost 117,9 m3 of stone. If I had any helpers, it could go faster.
I would use galena as the most common ore, so that anyone, who knows there is a gate in the mountain, but not where would be confused if they tried to magicaly search for lead.
It's also possible that the Gates need some kind of maintenance. I mean, even the gods themselves couldn't really keep the rifts shut, and the Gates are basically just putting duct tape over a spot weld.Possible, though doubtful. The one in the pyramind was in a lead column, while the one in Azure City was in a gem. Both would be pretty hard to get to to maintain. Especialy the one, which was a gem as a part of a throne.
Post by: MorleyDev on December 01, 2020, 08:45:13 am
Also something something plot.
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 01, 2020, 05:42:29 pm
I certainly hope that's dust of disappearance his showering the ground with there and not just sandI love the water. I hate the sand. It's coarse and it's rough and it gets everywhere
Post by: Egan_BW on December 01, 2020, 06:15:49 pm
And that is why I am not a bard. Or an evil overlord.
If I was one of those, who were to hide the gate, I would place it in an adamantine sphere, encase that in a lead sphere, then pile a mountain of mostly non-commercial rock.
If you were a bard, you'd know that the thing would be found regardless.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 04, 2020, 01:07:39 pm
Blackwing is great
Post by: Kagus on December 04, 2020, 01:28:48 pm
Speaking of which, does Oona not get a breath cloud because of the mask/headdress? Or are they some sort of undead bugbear ranger?
Heh... On that note, I went back to 1189 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1189.html) to see if the mysterious abductors were showing breath clouds or not, and it turns out that nobody is. So much for cluehunting on that front :P
Post by: JoshuaFH on December 04, 2020, 05:26:20 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on December 04, 2020, 05:27:21 pm
Post by: Akura on December 20, 2020, 12:26:43 pm
Trap being a gateway to alternate dungeons confirmed?
Post by: scriver on December 20, 2020, 01:10:17 pm
Post by: MagmaMcFry on December 20, 2020, 06:53:17 pm
Post by: Kagus on December 21, 2020, 06:04:09 am
Either the "WONNNNH" doesn't actually make any noise, or the baddies have been entering every dungeon, triggering that noise when they cross the threshold, and then going "Nah, that's normal".
Also, none of the trackers noticed the very neatly sliced half of a scorchmark that should be showing up for them.
Post by: hops on December 21, 2020, 08:44:13 am
Post by: scriver on December 21, 2020, 09:45:29 am
So...
Either the "WONNNNH" doesn't actually make any noise, or the baddies have been entering every dungeon, triggering that noise when they cross the threshold, and then going "Nah, that's normal".
Also, none of the trackers noticed the very neatly sliced half of a scorchmark that should be showing up for them.
I think they might be prevented from hearing it by the trap magic.
If I understand it correctly, the oots gang didn't actually get teleported anywhere, because Rogie disabled the trap, and they ran through it before it reset.
Additional theory: Bypassing the teleports (which just takes you to some random dungeon rooms somewhere each time) was what was actually necessary to reach the Yarn Tangle Crack all along.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 21, 2020, 12:34:10 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on December 21, 2020, 01:50:23 pm
Also, none of the trackers noticed the very neatly sliced half of a scorchmark that should be showing up for them.
Xykon's party is really feeling the lack of a rogue, huh.
Post by: Kagus on December 21, 2020, 01:59:54 pm
Additional theory: Bypassing the teleports (which just takes you to some random dungeon rooms somewhere each time) was what was actually necessary to reach the Yarn Tangle Crack all along.
I'm leaning towards this, with the additional measure that the bad guy gang is going to recognize the half-scorch on their way back out of their own dungeon instance and will realize something is up, in time to rush in behind the OOTS and have jolly uncooperation on the dramatic blink of oblivion.
Post by: hops on December 22, 2020, 12:03:43 am
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 27, 2020, 02:46:08 pm
It would make sense that the key to actually finding the rift is having a Rogue.Of course he would make a 5 dimensional dungeon, rogues not even once
Post by: Akura on January 01, 2021, 12:12:46 pm
Might be a good thing he died at the other Gate.
Post by: Rolan7 on January 01, 2021, 01:03:09 pm
Might be a good thing he died at the other Gate.Oh, for sure - his death advanced Sabine's character development! I'm looking forward to how her seemingly genuine rage and sorrow over his death is followed up on.
Edit: It's just kinda weird - she's literally a demon, not even a devil. But even outsiders aren't purely defined by their alignment (just... almost purely). There is that succubus paladin in official material who showed up both on Detect Good and Detect Evil or whatnot.
Post by: scriver on January 01, 2021, 01:25:27 pm
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 01, 2021, 03:02:53 pm
Post by: Akura on January 11, 2021, 10:14:29 am
Going back to the battle of Azure City, Soon Kim and his group of Paladin Deathless very nearly kills both Xykon and Redcloak. This would have prevented Team Evil from threatening the gods with releasing the Snarl into their planes. But it would also have prevented Rat, Tiamat, and Thor&Loki from getting The Dark One's help in creating a nearly permanent seal on the Rifts. And what stopped that from happening? A series of events, highly unlikely individually and almost certainly providence taken together.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: hops on January 11, 2021, 07:08:39 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on January 11, 2021, 07:55:07 pm
And yeah, the Dark One definitely stands to benefit here. Redcloak's semi-justified xenophobia is standing in the way. I wonder if tDO may become aware of the deal through Redcloak being his high priest, or if Redcloak can keep that information from his god.
Ur-priest Redcloak when? (pretty obscure 3.5 stuff so probably unlikely, but I'd love it). The very short description would be "A cleric who steals divine magic from deities and other spellcasters".
(I've always held the idea that a Cleric's level represents their power to channel power like any other spellcaster, not just the favor of their deity. So why couldn't a powerful Cleric "shop around", or even leech divine spells via deception (the ur-priest prestige class.))
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 19, 2021, 10:48:42 am
Post by: Mathel on January 19, 2021, 11:16:12 am
I like the theory about Rat. Miko's story doesn't *demand* it, but it would fit very well.
And yeah, the Dark One definitely stands to benefit here. Redcloak's semi-justified xenophobia is standing in the way. I wonder if tDO may become aware of the deal through Redcloak being his high priest, or if Redcloak can keep that information from his god.
Ur-priest Redcloak when? (pretty obscure 3.5 stuff so probably unlikely, but I'd love it). The very short description would be "A cleric who steals divine magic from deities and other spellcasters".
(I've always held the idea that a Cleric's level represents their power to channel power like any other spellcaster, not just the favor of their deity. So why couldn't a powerful Cleric "shop around", or even leech divine spells via deception (the ur-priest prestige class.))
I have another idea though. If Redcloak's actions go against both goblinkind and tDO, tDO may excommunicate him and pick another high priest.
I also think that clerical level is their power, rather than their direct standing with their god. Otherwise it would not make sense, that a gods Chosen One can be on level 1.
Post by: Kagus on January 19, 2021, 12:30:33 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on January 19, 2021, 12:41:32 pm
It would be impossible to balance and would fuel division in the party, but... it'd be cool? :v
Post by: scriver on January 19, 2021, 12:53:13 pm
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 19, 2021, 12:55:32 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on January 19, 2021, 01:09:08 pm
Though I guess Rich probably disagrees with my interpretation of paladins, given what happened to Miko. Which is fine, his world doesn't have to work the same way as my weird DnD headcanon which is semi-intentionally different from any sane reading of the source material~
Post by: Rolan7 on January 19, 2021, 02:14:26 pm
But Miko's powers seem to come from, or at least be under the jurisdiction of, the 12 Gods. They seem to visually step in (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0407.html), and Soon basically confirms that (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0464.html). I guess that gets into some weird theo-philosophy about what control deities have over the alignment planes they rule over. Particularly in this world's complicated pantheon of non-interference pacts. In typical DND settings I'd speculate that the plane is just an extension of the will of the deities ruling it, so maybe a paladin who manages to *accidentally* wrong enough of those deities could find their powers put on hold. This setting's creation story is pretty unusual so who knows.
This is another low-sleep ramble. I played a lot more 3.5 clerics instead of paladins. They always had a god even though clerics are totally allowed to just channel alignment planes and pick their domains, heh. But when my second cleric got permanently brainscrambled by some alienist things (long story), he became a pretty dangerous DM-run antagonist because he was now channeling *the far realm*, hehe. We had fun setting that up.
...Hehe, I just remembered I sorta pulled an Elan/Nale with my first two characters. My first character was a druid who turned into a horse sometimes. My second character was a true-neutral cleric worshiping Obad-Hai the forest god, always used elemental and healing spells, happened to be a satyr, and deeply resented the first character who he was "totally different" from.
Just reminds me of Nale taking that crazy multiclass rather than being a bard
Post by: Egan_BW on January 19, 2021, 02:33:42 pm
That idea I've gotten less attached to in favor of having an uncountable number of gods with very specific domains who can also act as guardian spirits for specific places. All descended from the three great goddesses, of course.
Tinkering with DnD cosmology is actually pretty fun, I guess? :v
Post by: Kagus on January 19, 2021, 02:34:34 pm
Always a relevant Oglaf...
Post by: Cyroth on January 19, 2021, 05:58:06 pm
Always a relevant Oglaf...
It's like XKCD, if you look long enough there is a good chance that you'll find something relevant. Although there is also a 50% chance that there will be a dong in it.
Post by: Kagus on January 19, 2021, 07:15:10 pm
Always a relevant Oglaf...
It's like XKCD, if you look long enough there is a good chance that you'll find something relevant. Although there is also a 50% chance that there will be a dong in it.
XKCD for stick figures, Oglaf for dick figures
Post by: crazyabe on January 20, 2021, 02:34:07 am
One thing that's always true between the two: rarely will you see anyone wearing actual clothes.Always a relevant Oglaf...
It's like XKCD, if you look long enough there is a good chance that you'll find something relevant. Although there is also a 50% chance that there will be a dong in it.
XKCD for stick figures, Oglaf for dick figures
Post by: Enemy post on January 22, 2021, 11:52:27 am
Post by: scriver on January 22, 2021, 01:21:49 pm
How many hp would a bird familiar have? 1?
Post by: Lord Shonus on January 22, 2021, 01:46:33 pm
Blackwing never disappoints.
How many hp would a bird familiar have? 1?
Half as many as V, rounded down.
Post by: scriver on January 22, 2021, 01:56:34 pm
You disgust me
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 22, 2021, 02:07:21 pm
So 1, then?Blackwing never disappoints.
How many hp would a bird familiar have? 1?
Half as many as V, rounded down.
Post by: Rolan7 on January 22, 2021, 03:07:06 pm
*I :PSo 1, then?Blackwing never disappoints.
How many hp would a bird familiar have? 1?
Half as many as V, rounded down.
Hm, familiars do have some protections (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#familiars). Considerable natural armor on top of an already good touch-AC from being a tiny (I think) creature. Saving throws benefiting from V's class levels, plus attribute modifiers (so a good reflex save from dex). Perhaps most impressively, spell resistance of V's level +5! I don't remember what everyone's levels have been estimated at, but Xykon would probably blow through that... but it's a nice bonus.
Wizard fortitude saves aren't great, but Xykon seems to like evocation so maybe Blackwing would get to show off with a fancy reflex save before Redcloak casts a save-or-die.
Post by: 4maskwolf on January 22, 2021, 03:20:27 pm
If memory serves a Wizard's only good saving throw is will, reflex is also bad.*I :PSo 1, then?Blackwing never disappoints.
How many hp would a bird familiar have? 1?
Half as many as V, rounded down.
Hm, familiars do have some protections (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#familiars). Considerable natural armor on top of an already good touch-AC from being a tiny (I think) creature. Saving throws benefiting from V's class levels, plus attribute modifiers (so a good reflex save from dex). Perhaps most impressively, spell resistance of V's level +5! I don't remember what everyone's levels have been estimated at, but Xykon would probably blow through that... but it's a nice bonus.
Wizard fortitude saves aren't great, but Xykon seems to like evocation so maybe Blackwing would get to show off with a fancy reflex save before Redcloak casts a save-or-die.
Post by: Rolan7 on January 22, 2021, 03:26:50 pm
Post by: hops on January 23, 2021, 01:12:50 am
Post by: Greiger on January 23, 2021, 05:38:49 pm
It ended up not working too well because his magic missile still hit for something like 20.
Post by: Kagus on January 23, 2021, 06:16:27 pm
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 23, 2021, 08:04:09 pm
I would think all xylon would need to do is cast a magic missile. This was ages ago in I think 3rd edition but I remember planning a campaign in an old PC game where the good guys were fighting the big bad and he was toying with them by being set to only only cast level 1 spells.Was it Baldur's gate? First foe you met in Friendly Arm can oneshot you with magic missile. He's not even that high level, he's probably level 4 or so. Its just that even his lame wizard level is enough to oneshot you with a single cast of magic missile
It ended up not working too well because his magic missile still hit for something like 20.
Post by: Kagus on January 24, 2021, 04:41:34 am
Tarnesh... *Shakes fist at sky*I would think all xylon would need to do is cast a magic missile. This was ages ago in I think 3rd edition but I remember planning a campaign in an old PC game where the good guys were fighting the big bad and he was toying with them by being set to only only cast level 1 spells.Was it Baldur's gate? First foe you met in Friendly Arm can oneshot you with magic missile. He's not even that high level, he's probably level 4 or so. Its just that even his lame wizard level is enough to oneshot you with a single cast of magic missile
It ended up not working too well because his magic missile still hit for something like 20.
Tarnesh is actually level 5, which is exactly high enough to get that third missile in Magic Missile for (1d4+1)x3 damage at a time when you're most likely still level 2-3 at most. And in BG1, the Shield spell doesn't block it... Yippee!
When I played as a kid, I used to just get him to spot Montaron first and try talking to him, while I kited him around the back of the building :P... Sacrificed the wee midget, but it got that darn mage out of my hair!
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 24, 2021, 06:23:32 am
I think level 2-3 is overoptimistic and reliant on doing Nashkell first. The way the game is set you are supposed to go to Friendly Arm first and you'll be a flat level 1. It's nuts.
For that matter I have to say something that I only realized after beating the game: the level 5 cap means playing as a wizard is insta-hardmode in vanilla BG1 as you'll be dramaticaly underpowered compared to most encounters.
(Also for what it's worth: Edwin is a far better wizard than PC will ever be in either game. Sorcerer PC comes close thanks to versatile spells and the possibility to do high wis high int to abuse the wish spells. But other than that particular setup there's no wizard approach in which Edwin won't perform better. Shit, he even has more spell slots than a *sorcerer* PC.
I think that outside the sorcerer/wish scenario if you want a spellcaster it's probably better to play a self-buffing ranged bard or wizard/thief than a regular wizard.
Or a priest I guess. But tbh priests always felt kind of weird in D&D and feel even weirder given the plot of BG 1&2.
Unless you choose to interpretate them as PoE style priests (or Fall from Grace in Planescape:Torment) in which a priest's power comes from their faith/conviction, and alignment to a deity is frequent but not mandatory (Eg: FfG's belief in experience, Durance's mighty priestly abilities despite being on non-speaking terms with his goddess due to his firm belief in his goddess' principles.)
Those takes would work I guess. Otherwise... well I wont spoil the reveal in case someone hasnt played it and wants to, but those of you who have... it doesn't make a lot of sense that the main PC would be a *regular* deity aligned character, does it?
Post by: Kagus on January 24, 2021, 07:39:49 am
There's also stuff like the (in)famous Fighter-Mage dual class, but that's not really much of an option for BG1, regardless of how much face it might kick later on.
Or, in the old versions, Cleric/Ranger multi and opening up the entirety of both the Cleric and Druid spell lists :P
But yeah, the cleric devotion thingy was definitely something I thought about as well... Although to be fair, they *were* raised in what's effectively a monastery, and I'm sure there are plenty of deities out there who wouldn't pass on the chance to have *that* as a devotee.
Post by: Greiger on January 24, 2021, 06:03:29 pm
Nah it was a really old game called Unlimited Adventures, predates Baldur's gate. Does not run on modern PCs, even DOSBox crashes last I tried a few years back. You could create your own game in it. It was really ahead of it's time.I would think all xylon would need to do is cast a magic missile. This was ages ago in I think 3rd edition but I remember planning a campaign in an old PC game where the good guys were fighting the big bad and he was toying with them by being set to only only cast level 1 spells.Was it Baldur's gate? First foe you met in Friendly Arm can oneshot you with magic missile. He's not even that high level, he's probably level 4 or so. Its just that even his lame wizard level is enough to oneshot you with a single cast of magic missile
It ended up not working too well because his magic missile still hit for something like 20.
Baldur's gate is an awesome game though, I remember it had a Drizzt cameo, which was awesome to younger me.
Post by: Frumple on January 24, 2021, 06:08:07 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on January 26, 2021, 12:38:05 am
Roy: "The floor color basically confirms our hypothesis. It's a sign that we're not in the same tunnel." But doesn't that mean they WERE gated? After disabling the "trap"?
Roy: "I think we're in the actual tunnel that's physically connected to that door." - While pointing at the doorway they just walked through.
Wouldn't that mean they WEREN'T gated???
I'm so confused.
https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1223.html
Edit: I'm saying Gate because a Gate spell might actually work like this. A triggered teleportation wouldn't. But as V pointed out, the gate the baddies took has to be to the prime material plane.
Post by: Mathel on January 26, 2021, 01:23:33 am
So the painter started at the door with green, triggered the trap, and continued with green.
Then he returned, not triggering the trap, an ended in the dead end. He then started with yellow, went through the trap triggering it again, and painted the real place yellow.
When Roy looks back through the trap, it is active and he looks through the stargate.
And "the same tunnel" I understand as "the same tunnel as Blackwing and team Xykon".
Post by: Madman198237 on January 26, 2021, 10:08:08 am
Post by: Enemy post on January 27, 2021, 02:38:57 pm
Post by: Kagus on January 27, 2021, 03:08:30 pm
The paladins are surely in for a tasty treat!
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 29, 2021, 04:11:33 pm
Post by: crazyabe on January 29, 2021, 08:39:29 pm
Could be wafts of cold arctic fartsWould you believe its Blueberry milkshake?
Melted gumdrops?
Dungeon nectar?
Some of gods tears?
Ah fine, its the lovely elderly couple from cell 2B.
Post by: Rolan7 on February 08, 2021, 10:30:07 am
Post by: scriver on February 08, 2021, 10:51:05 am
Post by: Akura on February 08, 2021, 11:11:40 am
A Green Hag, perhaps?
Post by: Kagus on February 08, 2021, 05:22:05 pm
A Green Hag, perhaps?Would definitely seem to jive with the invisibility and the use of poisons, but not so much the (presumably) flying or the one referring to the other as "boss"... The other voice could just be some sort of invisible familiar, but they'd have to be beefy enough to carry an armored paladin. Also seems like a somewhat unconventional environ for them to be in, but hey...
Also, a curious note... Probably just a goof, but 1225 is currently listed in the archive in between strips 1190 and 1191
Post by: Egan_BW on February 08, 2021, 06:21:29 pm
That's Sereni, standing on a stool which is hidden by the cloak, having multiclassed into Witch after her original adventures.
Post by: Rolan7 on February 08, 2021, 06:29:19 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on February 08, 2021, 06:31:15 pm
Post by: Remalle on February 08, 2021, 07:38:16 pm
The robes are the exact same colour scheme as the dude from the Holey Brotherhood (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html), who appeared on exactly one panel of one page...
Post by: Enemy post on February 08, 2021, 09:49:22 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lord Shonus on February 08, 2021, 11:13:18 pm
Do the cauldron runes look familiar to anyone?
They translate to "Magic Instant Pot".
Post by: hops on February 09, 2021, 03:02:31 am
Ok but uh. Alternate theory.I'm placing my bet on this too even if I think it's unlikely.
The robes are the exact same colour scheme as the dude from the Holey Brotherhood (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html), who appeared on exactly one panel of one page...
Post by: Mephansteras on February 09, 2021, 06:49:17 pm
Post by: MagmaMcFry on February 12, 2021, 11:57:23 am
Post by: Akura on February 12, 2021, 04:08:11 pm
Post by: MagmaMcFry on February 12, 2021, 06:31:42 pm
Honestly, I'd say it's more likely that we're actually looking at the Monster In The Darkness than the Holey Brotherhood.
Post by: crazyabe on February 12, 2021, 11:10:56 pm
Holey Bro has a purple wide-sleeved robe and blue cape, pot-stirring captor has small red sleeves and an oversized purple cloak. I'm not seeing any correlation here, and the colors seem very unambiguous to me.Alternatively, we are seeing a relative of MITD.
Honestly, I'd say it's more likely that we're actually looking at the Monster In The Darkness than the Holey Brotherhood.
Post by: Remalle on February 19, 2021, 10:55:38 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: scriver on February 19, 2021, 10:59:39 am
Post by: ChairmanPoo on February 19, 2021, 11:43:13 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: scriver on February 19, 2021, 11:44:20 am
Post by: Rolan7 on February 19, 2021, 12:07:06 pm
Post by: Akura on February 19, 2021, 05:11:02 pm
Post by: Remalle on February 19, 2021, 06:25:37 pm
Post by: Remalle on February 25, 2021, 02:14:22 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on February 25, 2021, 02:26:48 pm
"You're []! Sort of!" - ouch, Lien xD I think Ochul has the higher Charisma stat.
Post by: Dorsidwarf on February 25, 2021, 02:34:47 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on February 25, 2021, 02:41:45 pm
Post by: Kagus on February 25, 2021, 03:12:32 pm
Post by: Dorsidwarf on February 25, 2021, 05:09:57 pm
Not sure he really did overthink it. Serini reduces all that to "we were friends", but he still demonstrates an incredible understanding of why, recognizing the nature of marginalized and preyed upon "lessers". That's something that even most decent people wouldn't immediately jump to.
Thats kinda what I meant, he went into way more detail & insight than she'd actually considered herself.
Post by: Akura on February 26, 2021, 05:02:22 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Egan_BW on February 26, 2021, 05:03:40 am
Post by: crazyabe on February 26, 2021, 05:36:49 am
Post by: Remalle on February 26, 2021, 10:58:10 am
Edit: oops, missed a post, ignore me.
Post by: Enemy post on March 08, 2021, 10:35:20 am
Post by: Akura on March 08, 2021, 10:55:15 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: scriver on March 08, 2021, 11:37:07 am
But it's also fully possible Serini also has been spying on the other gates and/or researched what happened to them. She seems to be a magical inclined kind of rogue, don't she?
Post by: Enemy post on March 21, 2021, 11:19:17 am
Post by: scriver on March 21, 2021, 11:58:14 am
Post by: Akura on March 21, 2021, 12:09:55 pm
Post by: Culise on March 21, 2021, 02:53:35 pm
Then again, her party never had a bard. It had a rogue and an illusionist.
Post by: Enemy post on March 28, 2021, 10:44:33 am
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 28, 2021, 03:03:46 pm
1230. (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1230.html)Elan beginning to wonder why he's friends with anyone in the party is a very relatable DND moment, like when your lawful good cleric is trying to find reasons to keep their party of murderous buffoons alive
Post by: NRDL on March 28, 2021, 03:05:01 pm
Post by: Greiger on March 29, 2021, 04:38:01 pm
Surely there's other ways to get free turns against Xylon and crew, maybe come in behind them while they are already fighting monsters that are apparently capable of giving Xylon xp would be a better plan.
Post by: hops on April 01, 2021, 07:40:29 am
Post by: Enemy post on April 12, 2021, 09:37:46 am
Post by: hops on April 17, 2021, 09:48:46 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on April 17, 2021, 10:25:09 pm
I continue to feel strongly for Redcloak. Beyond the obvious reasons he has to distrust outsiders, he's basically correct. *Maybe* the Dark One would agree to this cooperation, but the god-union is inherently disgusting.
I mean, just look at their sepulcher - A
/Bungie reference.
Post by: Egan_BW on April 17, 2021, 10:47:27 pm
But then, RC has never actually spoken to TDO, despite being high priest, maybe the most powerful cleric in the world, and the lynchpin of TDO's entire scheme. They really should work on their communication...
Post by: Lord Shonus on April 18, 2021, 04:50:49 pm
He's invested so much into the DO IT BY FORCE strategy that even considering negotiation is anathema to him.
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 20, 2021, 04:22:01 am
Post by: MorleyDev on April 22, 2021, 01:33:02 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 23, 2021, 03:41:05 pm
1232 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1232.html).Poor Cleric doesn't like being part of the cosmic garden; I suppose it's not as fair as when a human makes a garden and all that dwells in it. The human knows they'll be part of the garden one day in a way Thor won't be
Post by: scriver on April 23, 2021, 05:06:54 pm
1232 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1232.html).Poor Cleric doesn't like being part of the cosmic garden; I suppose it's not as fair as when a human makes a garden and all that dwells in it. The human knows they'll be part of the garden one day in a way Thor won't be
Or will they?
A thought though:
Spoiler: this (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Because this (click to show/hide)
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on April 23, 2021, 05:16:10 pm
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 23, 2021, 06:09:50 pm
. Even common house cats are lethal to ordinary people.Wait what? What's your idea of "ordinary people"? I , as a reasonably able bodied adult male, feel reasonably confident that I'd be able to kick to death any animal significatively smaller than me. With a stick the range of things I could bludgeon to death increases significatively.
Post by: JoshuaFH on April 23, 2021, 06:33:37 pm
. Even common house cats are lethal to ordinary people.Wait what? What's your idea of "ordinary people"? I , as a reasonably able bodied adult male, feel reasonably confident that I'd be able to kick to death any animal significatively smaller than me. With a stick the range of things I could bludgeon to death increases significatively.
He probably means Commoners, whose stats stipulate they have exactly 1d8 health, averaging 4 hp, and a housecat can do 1d1 damage in an attack. It only takes on average 4 cat scratches to kill a normal peasant, they're really just pathetically weak.
Post by: scriver on April 23, 2021, 06:50:53 pm
edit: Yes what Joshua said - and a cat gets two attacks if they make a full attack.
The goblins start out in a position to be good raiders, and without their own resources raiding is inevitable. Good or evil, you can't just hold plenty over the head of a starving person and expect them not to grab it. That they were given a knife and you were not only exacerbates the inevitability of this. The gods are absolutely at great fault for establishing such a scenario.
I'm not sure you read what I wrote
Post by: Loud Whispers on April 23, 2021, 07:44:23 pm
The goblins start out in a position to be good raiders, and without their own resources raiding is inevitable. Good or evil, you can't just hold plenty over the head of a starving person and expect them not to grab it. That they were given a knife and you were not only exacerbates the inevitability of this. The gods are absolutely at great fault for establishing such a scenario.Powerful and wealthy raiders also tend to grab what they can reach for
Post by: MorleyDev on April 24, 2021, 04:32:17 pm
It's the "Orc Babies" problem, if your dungeon diving in DnD and you encounter an orc nursery, do you kill the babies because they're Always Evil and your character sheet clearly says "Lawful Good" and since it says so that means they should obviously die? Or is that abhorrent because they're friggin' babies with souls and lives and decisions? OOTS-verse is one where the gods gave the answer as: a Paladin can kill the orc babies and not fall.
Post by: Akura on April 24, 2021, 05:15:42 pm
Well I mean, in the OOTS universe isn't it a literal truth that a paladin of a Lawful Good god can, without any other reason than 'goblin evil, I smash', march into a village of Goblins and just start slaughtering them, even children, and not lose their Paladin powers? Because Goblins are born flagged as "Evil"? Didn't 'Start of Darkness' have a bunch of Paladins doing basically that?
Spoiler: It's a bit more complicated (click to show/hide)
Post by: Mathel on April 25, 2021, 01:54:10 am
Game setup is up to the gods.
The gods put each group of creatures somewhere and gave them starting knowledge and materials. They made goblinoids look significantly different from other sentient races, put them in poorer area and gave them shorter lifespan but increased reproduction rate.
What the people did with it is in their own hands.
The other races started being racist to goblinoids and left them with no option other than to raid them.
But the world has been running for over a thousand years. The real question is, why is this the first time goblinoids conquered a place? Why didn't ever before several groups of goblinoids banded together, overrun an isolated human country, and establish their own? Or how come no orc or goblin ever proved themselves as a good person, been granted a title and allowed goblinoids to settle in better lands?
There were a thousand years for a country of goblinoids to be created. They have weapons they have knowledge. Not all the fault can be attributed to the gods. Much goes to mortals. Mostly to humanoids, for being so racist, that they would never allow goblinoids to prove themselves. And probably, had they ever conquered anything, humanoids attacked them constantly, until they were destroyed.
But I also have to wonder if goblinoids ever tried diplomacy. Perhaps they did, and were refused. Perhaps they did not, and only ever tried war.
Post by: MorleyDev on April 25, 2021, 06:55:28 am
Remember, goblins are listed as "usually neutral evil" in their stat block. Not "always evil". Orcs, by the way, are "often chaotic evil", not "always chaotic evil".
Were they listed as that prior to the version update? I know in older versions of DnD the "often/always" text wasn't present, which led to the orc babies problem above, but was relaxed in later editions. But I'm not sure what version they started doing that for.
Post by: Akura on April 25, 2021, 11:39:49 am
Remember, goblins are listed as "usually neutral evil" in their stat block. Not "always evil". Orcs, by the way, are "often chaotic evil", not "always chaotic evil".
Were they listed as that prior to the version update? I know in older versions of DnD the "often/always" text wasn't present, which led to the orc babies problem above, but was relaxed in later editions. But I'm not sure what version they started doing that for.
I was reading from the 3.5 edition SRD (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/goblin.htm) - the comic uses (heavily modified) 3.5 edition rules. I think there was a mention at some point in the comic that OotS goblins are not "always evil" as well.
Post by: Lord Shonus on April 25, 2021, 12:29:37 pm
Like much with alignment, the modifiers don't exactly mean what they say.
Post by: Egan_BW on April 25, 2021, 12:43:50 pm
Post by: martinuzz on April 25, 2021, 01:05:54 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on April 25, 2021, 01:15:37 pm
But goblins aren't totally defined by being in conflict with the others, so even if you think that dwarves are evil, that doesn't make goblins good for fighting with them. They're still innately cruel and acceptant, they still generally have a demon in charge, they still have slaves, they still live in literally the evil biome, their ethics are still mostly "acceptable" or "personal matter"...
Post by: Enemy post on April 30, 2021, 04:43:31 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on April 30, 2021, 04:49:11 pm
Post by: Kagus on April 30, 2021, 06:04:27 pm
But writing it as "l'il" is throwing me for a loop.
Post by: scriver on April 30, 2021, 06:28:30 pm
Post by: Sergius on May 08, 2021, 05:47:43 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 10, 2021, 04:33:02 am
Post by: Rolan7 on May 18, 2021, 12:44:41 pm
This stuff is heavy but I'm totally digging it.
Post by: Egan_BW on May 18, 2021, 03:24:04 pm
Post by: Mobbstar on May 24, 2021, 11:47:34 am
(http://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/398533152848609281/832874074090897438/odin_my_beloved.gif)
(Jokes aside, the quality increase of the comic is simply incredible.)
Post by: Enemy post on May 25, 2021, 10:16:32 am
Post by: Dorsidwarf on May 26, 2021, 04:32:12 am
Also Elan is getting reflective I see/
Post by: TD1 on May 26, 2021, 10:38:55 am
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 10, 2021, 05:39:28 am
1235. (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1235.html)Elan's extroversion is precious and needs protecting
Post by: Enemy post on June 14, 2021, 09:57:31 am
Post by: Egan_BW on June 14, 2021, 10:37:31 am
Post by: Kagus on June 15, 2021, 05:30:00 am
Post by: scriver on June 15, 2021, 05:48:12 am
Post by: Kagus on June 15, 2021, 08:06:53 am
Because his eyes just turned orange, right?That and the orange aura around Mr. Lutey was similarly orangical. It's probably just a generic spell effect color and not related, but it made me think of it.
Post by: Mobbstar on June 15, 2021, 10:45:12 am
So, there were two voices that captured the paladins in 1189, the light green of Serini and an orange one... Have we figured out who the orange one was yet?
The three devils mentioned a "vessel" to do what Hel failed to. I feel like they're involved in this, and one of them has the exact same orange in its voice and eyes (which doesn't mean much tbh).
EDIT: Help, I got confused. In 1189 ("Wait and See"), Serini says "existing" was nice while it lasted, refering either to herself or her orange-voiced subordinate, but in 1228 ("No Intention"), she says that she wants the world to keep existing, and presumably that includes her. So what exactly has stopped existing or will soon do so?
Post by: Rolan7 on June 24, 2021, 04:16:33 pm
Post by: Kagus on June 25, 2021, 04:23:05 am
EDIT: Help, I got confused. In 1189 ("Wait and See"), Serini says "existing" was nice while it lasted, refering either to herself or her orange-voiced subordinate, but in 1228 ("No Intention"), she says that she wants the world to keep existing, and presumably that includes her. So what exactly has stopped existing or will soon do so?
She also says (in 1227) "Good to know no matter how old you get, you never really forget how to lie to a paladin!". She could just be setting them up for a scheme of some sort.
That, or she's planning to take the sacrifice play.
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 26, 2021, 03:41:58 pm
Post by: Kagus on June 26, 2021, 05:43:01 pm
There's gotta be that glimmer of hope, the shot at beating the system. She's cooking up something, and I'm rather certain that she hasn't revealed the truth of it to her guests.
Post by: Mathel on June 28, 2021, 12:45:33 am
She might not be expecting the gods to kill everyone themselves, thus saving their souls.
From what she knows, if she suceeds, the world won't end. If she dies, she goes into the proper afterlife. If she does nothing, she could be eaten by Snarl and her soul immediatly destroyed.
Post by: Enemy post on June 28, 2021, 09:33:55 am
Post by: Kagus on June 28, 2021, 10:00:30 am
...what
Okay, so... What looks like a beholder, has paralyzing and antimagic eye rays like a beholder, but obviously isn't a beholder because those are too intrinsically paranoid-megalomaniacal to cooperate with anyone, let alone take orders from anyone? Not to mention being spawned into existence by the power of dreams and as such wouldn't really have a life stage where they'd be able to form a bond with a parent figure.
A mimic I can sorta get, they have a sentient INT score and a neutral alignment... It could theoretically be possible to befriend/tame one if you really had a knack for such and found a way to communicate with it.
But a beholder? There's gotta be something fucky going on.
Post by: MorleyDev on June 28, 2021, 10:33:55 am
Also a 'ooh totes evil creature by nature' like a beholder not being completely evil fits with OoTS style.
Post by: Mephansteras on June 28, 2021, 12:14:47 pm
So I don't think it's all that surprising that OOTS would do something unusual with them.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 28, 2021, 12:21:16 pm
Post by: Akura on June 28, 2021, 12:45:44 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 28, 2021, 02:35:13 pm
[...] but obviously isn't a beholder because those are too intrinsically paranoid-megalomaniacal to cooperate with anyone, let alone take orders from anyone?
This is the Order of the Stick universe. Beholders can act however the Giant wants them to.
Post by: TD1 on June 28, 2021, 02:53:23 pm
Post by: Kagus on June 28, 2021, 03:07:06 pm
The beholder called them "mom", so I'm guessing it's one of those "created them from their own dreams and raised them" scenarios? Or from a friends dreams, but they 'raised' them?
Also a 'ooh totes evil creature by nature' like a beholder not being completely evil fits with OoTS style.
They're born from the dreams of other beholders though, not just any creature. And generally in a fully-grown state, as it's basically a manifestation of the dreamer's concept of a beholder (such as themselves). Looking it up though, there does appear to be a slightly more "conventional" form of asexual reproduction available to them, and seeing as the progenitor either eats or rejects all but (at most) one of the brood, that would open things up for being discovered and raised by our good friend Serini.
...however, this doesn't necessarily dodge the issue with their temperament.
It's not that beholders are "Alignment = Evil, therefore bad", it's that they are specifically described as being singularly xenophobic, narcissistic, and paranoid. So, basically all the traits one would look for in someone you want to befriend.
Beholders are perfectly capable of being not-diabolically-evil. They'll just hole up somewhere remote and keep perpetually building and reinforcing their lair's defenses in preparation of the imminent attack from all sides that is totally going to happen, because nobody and nothing can be trusted. But cooperating with anyone that they don't view as either a close enough representation of themselves (the perfect entity) or a slave they can keep contained and controlled is... Kinda the one specific thing that they're made to not do.
And yes, there are indeed a great many varieties of beholder or beholder-kin. Some, like observers, are indeed noted as having less-antisocial personalities than true eye tyrants.
...and just about all of them are readily distinguishable from eye tyrants by their body features. Sunny isn't an observer, because they only have one central eye + mouth. They're not a spectator either (specifically mentioned as being "known to form friendships with other creatures, a trait that no other beholderkin or true beholder ever displayed"), because they have more than four eyestalks.
Curiously, though... Sunny doesn't appear to really be any variant I'm familiar with. They possess all the characteristics of a standard eye tyrant, except that they only appear to have eight eyestalks instead of ten.
I suppose it's theoretically possible that a true eye tyrant dreamt of a "wrong" version of themselves that was possessed of disgusting and weak qualities like empathy, respect, and deference (and additionally being impure of form enough to only have eight stalks), but that raises the question as to how it wasn't immediately slaughtered by its dreamer as an abomination. I guess she just showed up at the right place at the right time, immediately understood that this new beholder was different, and managed to imprint upon it and scurry away before the original woke up or just backstabbed the hell out of mommy dreamest before making away with the kidball.
So, really, the only reasonable explanation so far is that this is indeed O.C. Donut Steele.
Post by: Criptfeind on June 28, 2021, 03:31:33 pm
Post by: andrea on June 28, 2021, 03:32:13 pm
This is clearly an eye stalker, a 9 pupil fox, or whatever have you. Compared to the more famous beholder, they can have nicer personalities and can have mommies.
But really, this comic hasn't tried to be faithful to the details of D&D in a long time
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 28, 2021, 04:00:45 pm
Beholders are intellectual property of the Wizards of the Coast and as such can't be shown in the comic. (Proof! (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0032.html))
This is clearly an eye stalker, a 9 pupil fox, or whatever have you. Compared to the more famous beholder, they can have nicer personalities and can have mommies.
But really, this comic hasn't tried to be faithful to the details of D&D in a long time
Now that you mention it I wonder how Illwinter got away with using illithids in its games without getting fire from WoC´s legal team.
Post by: Sergius on June 30, 2021, 09:59:30 am
Post by: MagmaMcFry on July 01, 2021, 08:56:27 am
Beholders are intellectual property of the Wizards of the Coast and as such can't be shown in the comic. (Proof! (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0032.html))Ohey the monster in #32 finally got its screen time, only 1205 strips delayed.
This is clearly an eye stalker, a 9 pupil fox, or whatever have you. Compared to the more famous beholder, they can have nicer personalities and can have mommies.
But really, this comic hasn't tried to be faithful to the details of D&D in a long time
Post by: Grim Portent on July 01, 2021, 09:17:51 am
The surviving beholderlings would then wander off individually and go find their own lair as they grew.
A rare few beholders are able to cooperate with things, usually only with things they consider underlings or things so powerful that even a beholder has to concede defeat, but Xanathar from the Forgotten Realms has a pet goldfish which he is very fond of.
Theoretically this beholder is just one that Serini met when it was little, adopted and helped work out it's more major neuroses.
Post by: Mobbstar on July 07, 2021, 07:55:13 am
This would perhaps be a convenient time for the reprisal of Belkar's sheet of lead.
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 07, 2021, 08:07:35 am
Post by: Kagus on July 07, 2021, 08:44:39 am
Anyone else think this is going to feature a "Look behind you!" moment that gets Sunny to swivel around and remove the zone long enough for a gamechanger spell to go off?
This would perhaps be a convenient time for the reprisal of Belkar's sheet of lead.
Does antimagic block antimagic?
Post by: Mathel on July 07, 2021, 09:54:36 am
Does antimagic block antimagic?
I do not think it does. And even if it did, lead is heavy. He would probably carry it in his bag of holding.
Post by: Akura on July 09, 2021, 05:35:41 pm
Also interesting is how Serini, assumes Haley, a Rogue like her, is the leader. Though Haley is, if I remember correctly, second-in-command.
This would perhaps be a convenient time for the reprisal of Belkar's sheet of lead.
Does antimagic block antimagic?
It does not. Ignoring the fact that lead in of itself does not have antimagic properties - it's merely dense enough that a sheet is enough so that some spells that can pierce thin barriers can't penetrate it - two antimagic fields overlapping do not interact or stack. Nor does lead block an antimagic field.
Post by: TD1 on July 09, 2021, 05:47:38 pm
Roy's outta it.
Post by: Enemy post on July 14, 2021, 10:02:56 am
Post by: Egan_BW on July 14, 2021, 10:24:07 am
It's kind of amazing to watch the team be successful without Roy, hehe.
Post by: scriver on July 15, 2021, 01:01:03 pm
Edit: Theory -- the halfling and her "evil" friends and family is what is going to enable Redcloak's "there is a better way" character development and betrayal of Xykon.
Also: would xykon be able to protect against an antinagic ray?
Post by: Criptfeind on July 15, 2021, 01:42:37 pm
Also: would xykon be able to protect against an antinagic ray?
I'm not sure of the exact limits of antimagic (it's left vague exactly what spells can get though it) it's possible that even Resilient Sphere can block it, but failing that Xykons for sure strong enough to cast other spells that can block it explicitly assuming he has them on his spell list (and presumably will, if the story calls for him to do so)
Post by: Dorsidwarf on July 15, 2021, 02:24:46 pm
Also: would xykon be able to protect against an antinagic ray?
I'm not sure of the exact limits of antimagic (it's left vague exactly what spells can get though it) it's possible that even Resilient Sphere can block it, but failing that Xykons for sure strong enough to cast other spells that can block it explicitly assuming he has them on his spell list (and presumably will, if the story calls for him to do so)
Issue that has people scratching their head is that Xykon's known Epic Spells (The ones that can break through the AM field) dont seem up to punching through the beholder trap - Beholders aren't casting magic that his Epic Dispel can stop, and Cloister doesnt seem useful either.
Post by: Criptfeind on July 15, 2021, 02:44:32 pm
Post by: Kagus on July 15, 2021, 04:51:26 pm
If you catch an unprotected lich in an antimagic zone, do they just... Stop living? Technically they're magically animated. I mean, the phylactery is still there if it's not caught in the blast, but the physical body should disassemble itself, right?
Post by: Akura on July 15, 2021, 05:04:23 pm
So that's... Actually an interesting question.
If you catch an unprotected lich in an antimagic zone, do they just... Stop living? Technically they're magically animated. I mean, the phylactery is still there if it's not caught in the blast, but the physical body should disassemble itself, right?
Nope, liches are corporeal undead. Incorporeal wink out of existence(presumably, they still exist on the Ethereal Plane), and return in the same place once the AM field goes away. Interesting question on what happens if the phylactery ends up in the field though. It probably wouldn't affect the lich at all if they're still intact, but if the lich is destroyed and the phylactery is placed in an AM field, who knows? Possibly, it will suppress regeneration, but I doubt that. Plus, with all the protections placed on it, it's possible that it's protected from antimagic anyway.
Xykon would certainly lose his damage reduction in an antimagic field, though, as that's a supernatural effect.
Post by: Enemy post on July 26, 2021, 10:58:39 pm
Post by: Kagus on July 27, 2021, 04:14:30 am
Did Elan actually cast anything while we weren't looking, which is going to be revealed soon, or did he legitimately just take that moment to stare at his own pretty blue fingers?
Also featured: Two dwarves and a halfling who all failed their saving throws at the same time (well, Durkon might be able to stubborn his way out of the petrification if it's one of those multi-save ones, but still).
I like how the prismatic spray gets neutralized by Sunny's gaze on the far side
Post by: scriver on July 27, 2021, 04:35:34 am
Post by: hops on July 27, 2021, 06:37:46 am
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 27, 2021, 08:08:05 am
...
Did Elan actually cast anything while we weren't looking, which is going to be revealed soon, or did he legitimately just take that moment to stare at his own pretty blue fingers?
Also featured: Two dwarves and a halfling who all failed their saving throws at the same time (well, Durkon might be able to stubborn his way out of the petrification if it's one of those multi-save ones, but still).
I like how the prismatic spray gets neutralized by Sunny's gaze on the far side
Petrification has been shown as instant before. That is probably Durkon making his save, not failing.
Post by: Mobbstar on July 27, 2021, 02:38:20 pm
Those guys shouldn't bully Sunny so
Unfortunately, the only other target they're aware of is invisible, and also happens to have great dexterity.
And yeah, to my knowledge the Eye Rays have a slight effect even if the saving throw succeeds.
On the note of Eye Rays, which one enraged Mr Scruffy? All the other effects are standard Eye Rays, and #8 is probably Death.
Post by: Akura on July 27, 2021, 03:25:31 pm
...
Did Elan actually cast anything while we weren't looking, which is going to be revealed soon, or did he legitimately just take that moment to stare at his own pretty blue fingers?
Not to mention Durkon is clearly casting something on Roy, but it's apparently not Neutralize Poison. Roy is still down; the poison is an unconsciousness effect(which Neutralize Poison would remove). Also, Roy still has the green bubble effect on him that indicates poisoning; V in this (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0712.html) strip lost the green bubbles(but was still downed by Strength damage) after Neutralize Poison was applied.
Alternatively, the spell fizzled when Durkon was hit with the petrification beam, but there's no -fizzle!- effect. Since I don't know Sunny's stats here, I don't know what the save DC of that eye beam is(standard Flesh to Stone is DC16). Durkon does however have a high Concentration skill, and has shown to be able to resist distactions (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0352.html) while casting.
Post by: Kagus on July 27, 2021, 03:29:26 pm
On the note of Eye Rays, which one enraged Mr Scruffy? All the other effects are standard Eye Rays, and #8 is probably Death.
Dunno; as established, Sunny isn't your typical D&D beholder. Could have a Confuse ray instead of Enervation, and there's no telling what #8 could be. Disintegration? Teleportation? Darkness?
Fish?
Post by: Egan_BW on August 18, 2021, 10:38:05 pm
Post by: Kagus on August 19, 2021, 01:56:19 am
Post by: Akura on August 19, 2021, 08:45:35 pm
Post by: hops on August 20, 2021, 12:47:13 am
Post by: Rolan7 on August 20, 2021, 01:24:56 am
... In fact I feel like applying a fresh Protection From [Alignment] effect *doesn't* end a preexisting domination, but I'm too sleepy to check.
Edit: I guess this is a charm and maybe that's different
Post by: Mobbstar on August 20, 2021, 01:45:40 am
what does belkar's clasp do again?
It brought him back to conscious once (after getting knocked out in 1127), but I don't know what it is or does because I don't remember where he got it from.
Post by: Rolan7 on August 20, 2021, 02:21:34 am
I don't know why Belkar woke back up, though. The wiki says:
Quote
But when the party was knocked out and the vampires had apparently won, Mr. Scruffy activated Belkar's Protection from Evil clasp, releasing him from the vampiric domination. Seeing his chance to finally settle the score with the vampire Durkon, he killed Ponchula and leaped to attack "Durkon" while he was distracted with Durkon's memories. Durkon, having gained control of himself, lowered his antilife shell and bared his chest for Belkar, who descended on him and drove a stake through his heart, destroying the vampire who disappeared in a cloud of smoke.Oh... I checked (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/protectionFromEvil.htm), and the effect does suppress charm/compulsion/possession effects. Temporarily, but fair enough.
That doesn't explain why he woke up, but it does explain why he was free. And maybe he woke up because he's just. That. Mad.
Heck, maybe he raged and regained enough HP to be conscious. Is that RAW? It's cool as heck!
Post by: Akura on August 20, 2021, 04:38:09 am
I don't know what it is or does because I don't remember where he got it from.
It's a brooch with a Protection From Evil spell, activated possibly by some kind of button or mechanism on it, as opposed to but similar to a command word. He bought it from a gnome girl in Tinkertown, at half price because she was worried she made a defective item(it was paining him and he was trying to hide his Evil alignment). He felt guilty about it, and turned her down when she asked him out afterwards.
Heck, maybe he raged and regained enough HP to be conscious. Is that RAW? It's cool as heck!Possible, but since he would have gained only 2HP(he has one level of Barbarian), he would have been at a minimum -1HP. PRE-EDIT: Nevermind, he was unconscious from non-lethal damage(note: the link you have goes to 1130, not 1127), so gaining that 2HP could have brought him over his non-lethal damage. So yeah, RAW. I don't know if the rage HP gain also removes non-lethal, since it's not a "spell or magical power".
Post by: scriver on August 20, 2021, 05:12:31 am
I thought it was a ring, but it is indeed a brooch. It provides Protection from Evil which, like all Protection from [alignment] effects, prevent mental domination from any source. Since he is technically evil, it has caused him discomfort when wearing it.
Protection against yourself. Kind of like a condom.
Post by: Mobbstar on August 20, 2021, 07:32:15 am
He felt guilty about it, and turned her down when she asked him out afterwards.
Found it, 969 it is. I want to scream and cry and applaud.
Post by: Enemy post on September 07, 2021, 09:39:39 am
Post by: scriver on September 07, 2021, 10:00:04 am
Post by: Kagus on September 07, 2021, 11:28:06 am
Post by: Akura on September 07, 2021, 03:43:01 pm
That's a lot of successful acrobatics checks right there
DC25 Climb("A rough surface, such as a natural rock wall or a brick wall."), and probably DC20 Jump(10 feet, no running start) checks. She probably gets a +1 or +2 to the Climb check by using her Adamantine dagger as an improvised piton/icepick.
I don't know what skill checks are involved with "Flying boot to the head".
Post by: Lord Shonus on September 07, 2021, 10:23:20 pm
Post by: Mathel on September 08, 2021, 01:48:08 am
I don't know what skill checks are involved with "Flying boot to the head".Probably an unarmed attack.
Post by: scriver on September 08, 2021, 07:42:10 am
Post by: Rolan7 on September 08, 2021, 02:48:47 pm
I was going to say that the total concealment grants a 50% miss chance, but I guess there's no attack roll - just the strength check! Pretty clever.
Post by: Mobbstar on September 16, 2021, 09:54:20 am
V is a telemarketer.
Post by: scriver on September 16, 2021, 10:07:05 am
edit: DnD adventure idea: Random farmer mistakenly receives an errant casting of Message, takes it as a message from the gods and starts a cult
Post by: Kagus on September 16, 2021, 11:24:39 am
Post by: Akura on September 16, 2021, 04:11:00 pm
...was the dino-lizard within range of that Dispel Magic, perchance?
Probably not, everyone in the panel looked to be in a ~20-ft area, with Bloodfeast nowhere there. And V would need to roll at least an 11 to remove Miron's(assuming he's level 20) Baleful Polymorph.
edit: DnD adventure idea: Random farmer mistakenly receives an errant casting of Message, takes it as a message from the gods and starts a cult
Neat, but Message has such a short range(Medium: 100ft +10ft/level) that it'd be hard not to see the person casting it. Or hear, since despite being a stealth communication spell it has a verbal component. Plus, unlike Sending, it's a two-way communication for several minutes, so I don't see how it would be a mistake without some way of correcting it.
Now, intentionally messaging someone so they start a cult. That's a genuine laugh. Or a plot for an Evil-aligned PC adventure.
Post by: Kagus on September 16, 2021, 04:19:18 pm
Now, intentionally messaging someone so they start a cult. That's a genuine laugh. Or a plot for an Evil-aligned PC adventure.
This is something I've thought about with regard to GOOlocks and their telepathic communication from the get-go. Particularly, I wonder if you'd have any way of recognizing who it was that was speaking to you in your head if you didn't already know...
I figure it'd be great for setting up a cult! Sneakily proselytize via telepathy, and hopefully your acolytes count as level 1 once they take the pact and can start using it themselves to spread the network! :P
Post by: hops on September 27, 2021, 09:57:16 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on September 27, 2021, 10:08:13 pm
Post by: Akura on September 28, 2021, 04:16:23 am
Post by: hops on September 29, 2021, 03:04:20 am
Post by: Kagus on September 29, 2021, 03:06:39 am
Huh, why were they talking about existing then?
Because the world is going to end. That goes for everybody, magically summoned or no.
Post by: Akura on September 29, 2021, 04:21:38 am
Huh, why were they talking about existing then?
Because the world is going to end. That goes for everybody, magically summoned or no.
Especially so when you consider that, by living next to the Gate, Serini and family are in a very real danger of being hit by the Snarl should it break free.
Post by: Enemy post on October 04, 2021, 08:24:02 pm
Post by: scriver on October 05, 2021, 04:47:56 am
Post by: Mathel on October 05, 2021, 10:35:18 am
Then she would know what is going on.
Post by: Mobbstar on October 05, 2021, 04:04:10 pm
If only Serini let them talk for long enough to explain that they also want to protect the gate.
Then she would know what is going on.
Given the discourse between Serini and the paladins, she knows very well that this is what they want to do. She also knows that the four other gates had blown up, and V helpfully indicated the OotS' involvement.
And, let's be honest, the party almost revealed the real dungeon to Xykon as part of their surprise attack. They're bad at protecting things, it just so happens that up until the dwarven council, destruction always proved a viable plan B.
Post by: Remalle on October 14, 2021, 02:13:41 pm
Post by: Kagus on October 14, 2021, 04:06:53 pm
EDIT: Also, it looks a bit like he's just blasted the lizard with antimagic.
Post by: Enemy post on October 14, 2021, 05:48:11 pm
Post by: scriver on October 14, 2021, 06:01:47 pm
So if I'm looking at this right, and provided that there's actually any consistency at all in which eyestalks are which, that means V just got slapped with petrification.
EDIT: Also, it looks a bit like he's just blasted the lizard with antimagic.
Where is lizard?
Post by: Akura on October 14, 2021, 07:41:44 pm
So if I'm looking at this right, and provided that there's actually any consistency at all in which eyestalks are which, that means V just got slapped with petrification.
I think the petrification eye was the one that shot into the hole. Hard to tell. If it is, then it's the sleep beam that hit V, which, being an elf, they're immune to.
Post by: Mobbstar on October 15, 2021, 02:13:18 am
Where is lizard?
Notably not in the visible area, while the antimagic covers much of the unseen area.
So if I'm looking at this right, and provided that there's actually any consistency at all in which eyestalks are which, that means V just got slapped with petrification.
It's not consistent. The same eye (first one left of center) that Charmed Haley had previously Slowed Vaarsuvius. The first Charm against Elan was caused by one of the right-of-center ones. The one that hit Vaarsuvius now caused Sleep before, but I wouldn't bet on this happening again. Notably, #8 has been fired by the very eye that didn't shoot anything up until now, so perhaps that's consistent.
Post by: Kagus on October 15, 2021, 04:58:42 am
It's not consistent. The same eye (first one left of center) that Charmed Haley had previously Slowed Vaarsuvius. The first Charm against Elan was caused by one of the right-of-center ones. The one that hit Vaarsuvius now caused Sleep before, but I wouldn't bet on this happening again. Notably, #8 has been fired by the very eye that didn't shoot anything up until now, so perhaps that's consistent.
Actually if you look closely at that triple-shot, it appears to be actually #2 right from center that hits V. It's tricky to make out because the beams are crossing over each other, but you can see that the beam that goes into the hole is off-center for #2 right, but is on-center for #1 left. Whereas the beam that his Vaarsuvius is on-center for #2 right.
But yeah, the eye that charms Haley, #1 right, is previously the one that slowed V. So it's not apparently consistent.
Post by: Dorsidwarf on October 15, 2021, 05:58:56 am
Post by: Enemy post on November 01, 2021, 09:44:10 am
Post by: Egan_BW on November 01, 2021, 02:20:46 pm
Post by: Dorsidwarf on November 01, 2021, 02:22:36 pm
(Also someone pointed out on the GITP thread that since Serini has shown she's perfectly comfortable Dimension Dooring to places she can't see in this dungeon, the fact she popped up just out of reach suggests the order are being led into Another trap_
Post by: Akura on November 01, 2021, 03:43:40 pm
V isn't usually this overly loquacious, right? Is something wrong?
Maybe it's a sign of growing agitation? Instead of devolving into angrish like humans, maybe elves instead become impossible to understand by going to the other end of the verbosity spectrum?
Post by: Rolan7 on November 01, 2021, 10:14:47 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 16, 2021, 05:47:57 pm
First panel has me a little worried about Serini.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Kagus on November 16, 2021, 07:08:50 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on November 16, 2021, 08:12:51 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 16, 2021, 08:58:08 pm
I guess going out of their way to coup-de-grace Serini's pets would be counter-productive. It's just interesting that that applies to creatures like this and not just the talkative, friendly Sunny.
Post by: Mobbstar on November 17, 2021, 04:49:41 am
In other words, we'll need more popcorn for the next page.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 17, 2021, 05:09:22 am
But I don't think she's leading the Order on purpose. https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1243.html
It could be a bluff, but I think she really is annoyed and trying to shrug them off.
Either way, I'm concerned. What IS Serini planning? Does she have something in store for Xykon?
...Is Elan about to stumble over a crucial component of it?
Edit: What's bothering me more is that Serini doesn't seem quite... right. Maybe I'm reading too much into the first panel of this update, but I wonder if she's altogether herself these days. A former hero in long isolation, with some unusual surgery, and whose best friends tend to cling to floors and ceilings...
Post by: Akura on November 17, 2021, 05:17:25 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 17, 2021, 05:39:17 pm
Edit: What's bothering me more is that Serini doesn't seem quite... right. Maybe I'm reading too much into the first panel of this update, but I wonder if she's altogether herself these days. A former hero in long isolation, with some unusual surgery, and whose best friends tend to cling to floors and ceilings...She's also explicitly stated multiple times she is perfectly fine with however much death and destruction will result from Xykon ruling the world as long as him winning means the paladins and the Order don't have another chance to blow up the last gate. Not quite the most sound logic on display here.
Post by: Culise on November 17, 2021, 09:09:11 pm
That honestly makes a certain amount of cold sense, looking at the percentages and what she does (and doesn't) know. As far as she's concerned, Xykon is just another garden-variety non-omnicidal evil overlord. No matter how much destruction he does, as long as he doesn't literally annihilate all of creation, he's still better than the Snarl, which she believes will do precisely that. As long as there is life, there is hope: Xykon has no objection to life because he needs something to rule over, but the Snarl is pure, elemental destruction as far as she knows.Edit: What's bothering me more is that Serini doesn't seem quite... right. Maybe I'm reading too much into the first panel of this update, but I wonder if she's altogether herself these days. A former hero in long isolation, with some unusual surgery, and whose best friends tend to cling to floors and ceilings...She's also explicitly stated multiple times she is perfectly fine with however much death and destruction will result from Xykon ruling the world as long as him winning means the paladins and the Order don't have another chance to blow up the last gate. Not quite the most sound logic on display here.
Of course, the problems here are manifold:
1. She doesn't know that the gates fail regularly, and that the gods have taken measures to both survive and rebuild the world. Tough luck for any mortals living on the world, but the gods, elementals, and extra-planar entities tend to make it out alive, and if the gods blow up the world early and rebuild, they can even save the mortals' souls.
2. She's got Xykon pegged, but she doesn't know about the ambitions of Redcloak and the Dark One. If you want something that will panic the gods, the belated realization that someone just cast a spell that put a god-destroying, reality-destroying creature under the control of someone who both mistrusts and is mistrusted by the gods would rank highly. Xykon and Redcloak getting anywhere near the gate would not only all but guarantee the destruction of the world once they fire off their spell, but also lead to the possibility of a god-killer actually getting loose and killing one or more of said pantheons in the collateral fire, or worse, all of them, if someone among the gods decides to either call the Dark One's bluff or go for a preemptive strike out of fear that the Dark One will release the Snarl anyways just to thin out the competition. Or, for that matter, that the Dark One might actually release the Snarl anyways in the hopes he can control it; we have very little feel for the Dark One's personality or what he might or might not actually do if handed the reins to a god-destroying creature, just his stated intentions.
3. Even with what she does know, she hasn't thought through the consequences of evil overlords who have a single massive power source that comes with a handy self-destruct. This may be because her party didn't have a bard, but anyone familiar with narrative causality knows that nothing gets heroes crawling out of the woodwork like evil overlords blatantly throwing their weight around, and said massive power source is inevitably going to be destroyed by a hero just in time to unleash the Snarl for the season cliffhanger.
Post by: JoshuaFH on November 26, 2021, 04:00:36 pm
https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1249.html
Post by: Rolan7 on November 26, 2021, 06:43:16 pm
Also huh - I suddenly wondered why Serini's glasses have different colored lenses, but it's her eye. That's pretty cool, probably old information.
Post by: Mobbstar on November 27, 2021, 03:03:25 am
Post by: Rolan7 on November 27, 2021, 03:51:37 am
Post by: Kagus on November 27, 2021, 04:04:42 am
Post by: Akura on November 27, 2021, 05:18:55 am
Also, the Scribblers' fights against Xykon weren't all that one-sided. Serini was ambushed, which is why that one was.
Spoiler: Start of Darkness spoilers (click to show/hide)
And Soon's ghost almost won against both Xykon and Redcloak, but then Soon's entire build is pretty much a hard counter for that.
Is she aware of who killed Girard Draketooth?
Old age? Pretty sure she's starting to feel that one herself. Then again, as a halfling, she probably hasn't even hit Venerable yet.
Post by: scriver on November 27, 2021, 07:49:41 am
The color of the brick matches Serini's room. Maybe she went back to grab something more diabolical. Either way, I suspect the Order will reunite with O-chul and Lien soon.
Suspicions confirmed!
Post by: Mobbstar on December 13, 2021, 10:26:11 am
Kraagor's gate is a pokémon gym.
Post by: Kagus on December 13, 2021, 11:05:11 am
Post by: Egan_BW on December 13, 2021, 11:06:41 am
Also, I can just picture the GM assuming that the epic rogue ambush would work on the players and planning for them to get captured, only to lose the fight and start grasping at straws to get back on the rails. Then the players point out that the ultimatum doesn't make any sense from their perspective...
That shark's not gonna remember any of thisThe shark is a paladin's celestial mount, so I think that any memory loss would only last as long as the summoning? Assuming that projection is vulnerable to such things in the first place.
Post by: Kagus on December 13, 2021, 11:17:54 am
Okay, so inserting a shark into this situation certainly makes it more awesome, but does it actually change anything for the better?
The way I see it, it just turned a relatively safe--if somewhat dull--stalemate into a situation that risks spilling the cauldron and getting everyone there splashed to the point that they have no idea what they're doing there (if the dosage even lets them retain such things as a general sense of self, language, or how to walk).
Conclusion: Paladins are far more disruptive and destructive than rogues.
S'pose that kinda depends on your interpretation of how the magic works. Does it summon a static specific celestial entity attached to/associated with that paladin, simply vanishing into the aether before being resummoned? Or does the summoning create a new shark every time according to a particular magical blueprint, with each iteration dissipating into nothingness when finished?That shark's not gonna remember any of thisThe shark is a paladin's celestial mount, so I think that any memory loss would only last as long as the summoning? Assuming that projection is vulnerable to such things in the first place.
If it's the former, then the entity may very well lose their memory depending on the nature of the alchemy involved and how much that can "imprint" on the celestial spark the shark is formed around. If it's the latter, then it's definitely not going to remember any of this
Post by: Egan_BW on December 13, 2021, 11:28:12 am
So, unless that potion is potent enough to afflict a creature's very soul, its effect will only last for as long as the body in question is still there. Just like if you dismiss your mount and then summon it back to get rid of the poisoned effect.
Post by: Mathel on December 13, 2021, 02:46:47 pm
The question is, where are memories stored? Since you get to keep your memories in the afterlife, I'd argue that memories are stored in the soul, so any memory wipe effect does indeed affect the soul and would wipe memories of a summoned creatures.
About the ultimatum, well, information would be nice, but right now they need to either kill Xykon, or warn him that if the gate gets destroyed, so will the world.
Post by: Mobbstar on December 13, 2021, 02:59:02 pm
The way I see it, it just turned a relatively safe--if somewhat dull--stalemate into a situation that risks spilling the cauldron and getting everyone there splashed to the point that they have no idea what they're doing there (if the dosage even lets them retain such things as a general sense of self, language, or how to walk).
I thought that, because it's a "poison", it only has an effect if ingested or inhaled. But it seems D&D uses the word for contact-toxic substances too.
Post by: Remalle on December 13, 2021, 10:26:25 pm
Post by: Mathel on December 14, 2021, 10:13:11 am
I thought poison was any toxin that did not require the skin to be damaged. (so ingested poisons, inhaled poison, contact poisons) As opposed to a venom, which does require puncturing the skin.The way I see it, it just turned a relatively safe--if somewhat dull--stalemate into a situation that risks spilling the cauldron and getting everyone there splashed to the point that they have no idea what they're doing there (if the dosage even lets them retain such things as a general sense of self, language, or how to walk).
I thought that, because it's a "poison", it only has an effect if ingested or inhaled. But it seems D&D uses the word for contact-toxic substances too.
Post by: Culise on December 14, 2021, 10:30:48 pm
Outside of D&D? Biologically, it's any substance that causes death, injury, or harm to organs, tissues, cells or DNA. Medically and zoologically, differentiation is a bit more finely-tuned. Toxins are harmful substances specifically produced by biological means, though definitions can be lax. Venoms are animal poisons specifically delivered subcutaneously (hence not including poison dart frogs, which are absorbed through skin but not injected). Poisons are sometimes not included in the previous two rather than being a superset and thus serve as a category of the excluded, in which case "toxicant" is used as a supercategory for any toxic substance. On the adjective side, venomous animals are those that deliver venom via such means, while poisonous animals deliver either a toxin (if they produce it themselves or obtain it from other living things, as do poison dart frogs) or a poison (if they store it from non-organic sources, for which I don't have an example off-hand). Venomous and poisonous tend to be considered mutually exclusive, and as noted, this occurs with venom and poison on occasion as well.I thought poison was any toxin that did not require the skin to be damaged. (so ingested poisons, inhaled poison, contact poisons) As opposed to a venom, which does require puncturing the skin.The way I see it, it just turned a relatively safe--if somewhat dull--stalemate into a situation that risks spilling the cauldron and getting everyone there splashed to the point that they have no idea what they're doing there (if the dosage even lets them retain such things as a general sense of self, language, or how to walk).
I thought that, because it's a "poison", it only has an effect if ingested or inhaled. But it seems D&D uses the word for contact-toxic substances too.
So, for example, a snake's venom is also a toxin and a poison, but it is not considered poisonous (despite the fact that consuming its venom glands directly will give most people a bad time). As noted in an aside, poison-dart frogs are poisonous, but not venomous. Arsenic is a poison that is highly toxic, but it is not a toxin unless you're in a context where people refer to such things as inorganic or environmental toxins.
Behold the joys of multiple fields that have developed their own very specific meanings and their own very specific pedants. We're the Internet; we have entire forests of pedantries.
Post by: Shinziril on December 14, 2021, 11:29:52 pm
Post by: hops on December 15, 2021, 04:58:04 am
Post by: scriver on December 15, 2021, 08:12:50 am
Behold the joys of multiple fields that have developed their own very specific meanings and their own very specific pedants. We're the Internet; we have entire forests of pedantries.
Lol, well put. And at the end of the day I will never accept the tomato ask anything but a vegetable :P
Post by: Enemy post on January 07, 2022, 09:48:53 am
Post by: Kagus on January 07, 2022, 02:07:23 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on January 07, 2022, 04:21:47 pm
I'd speculate that the cauldron just held her dinner (regeneration might require a lot of mass!) but Belkar surely would have been able to tell. I still don't completely believe her bluff but who knows, maybe it's simply acid.
Post by: Egan_BW on January 07, 2022, 04:57:43 pm
Post by: anewaname on January 07, 2022, 05:23:44 pm
Post by: scriver on January 07, 2022, 06:49:28 pm
Post by: Mobbstar on January 08, 2022, 03:52:25 am
Post by: TD1 on January 08, 2022, 06:06:00 am
V is acting weird because they're actually dead. They've been necromanced and an illusion placed over them.
I will be very amused if this turns out to be the case.
Post by: Mobbstar on January 08, 2022, 09:19:52 am
V is acting weird
What does "weird" mean? In a sense, V always acts weird. I believe the recent deviation from V's normal attitude, by which I mean the surge of verbosity, was due to a backlog that had accumulated during the Slow spell.
Perhaps V must say an average of fifty words per minute or they explode.
Post by: Akura on January 08, 2022, 03:55:52 pm
I... just had a random dream.
V is acting weird because they're actually dead. They've been necromanced and an illusion placed over them.
I will be very amused if this turns out to be the case.
There is, in fact, an epic spell in the SRD that does exactly that: Demise Unseen (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/demiseUnseen.htm).
Post by: TD1 on January 08, 2022, 07:39:34 pm
:D
Post by: Kagus on January 09, 2022, 04:56:43 am
Interesting is how little Haley reacts to getting crotch-kicked by Serini. It generally works just as well on women as it does men, in that it friggin' hurts.
Uncanny Dodge for half damage.
Post by: Mathel on January 09, 2022, 06:01:13 am
Interesting is how little Haley reacts to getting crotch-kicked by Serini. It generally works just as well on women as it does men, in that it friggin' hurts.
Remember this is just an unarmed strike from a halfling. Even if it was a crit, it would be 2d2+Dex Mod. If Serini has 20 Dex, that would still be only 7 to 9 damage.
Post by: hops on January 09, 2022, 05:38:13 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on January 10, 2022, 10:06:27 am
Post by: JoshuaFH on January 10, 2022, 06:47:53 pm
Post by: Sergius on January 18, 2022, 08:58:34 am
Interesting is how little Haley reacts to getting crotch-kicked by Serini. It generally works just as well on women as it does men, in that it friggin' hurts.
Remember this is just an unarmed strike from a halfling. Even if it was a crit, it would be 2d2+Dex Mod. If Serini has 20 Dex, that would still be only 7 to 9 damage.
You don't add Dex to damage in that edition, not even with Weapon Finesse.
Post by: Mathel on January 18, 2022, 09:32:18 am
And her strength would likely be much lower than 20.
Post by: Enemy post on January 18, 2022, 09:35:10 am
Post by: Enemy post on January 22, 2022, 08:43:57 pm
Post by: scriver on January 23, 2022, 08:16:13 am
I'm calling it right now, Sunny is going to die a dramatic death in Troll-halfling's arms while fighting Xykon
Post by: Akura on January 23, 2022, 09:32:22 am
Then again, of Xykon's known Epic spells, none appear to be direct attack spells... which is seemingly at odds with Xykon's doctrine of overwhelming force. He'd probably love that Famicide spell Vaarsuvius used.
I also suspect Oona might be capable of convincing Sunny to switch to Team Evil.
Post by: Mobbstar on January 31, 2022, 07:54:46 am
Post by: Lord Shonus on January 31, 2022, 09:19:04 am
Post by: Enemy post on February 18, 2022, 11:28:38 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on February 18, 2022, 11:43:18 pm
It highlights how little he thinks of actual people, but it makes him a more interesting character. Shojo's phantasm would be proud, except that Belkar liked animals before the whole curse thing. Just not as obviously.
I also really like the punchline here. My gaming group would occasionally mention that tidbit for new members or just to spark a conversation. The best part is that it's a very important bit of information!
Post by: Enemy post on March 17, 2022, 11:46:28 am
Post by: Mobbstar on March 17, 2022, 12:25:17 pm
Post by: Mathel on March 18, 2022, 10:22:49 am
Redcloak intends to use the gate to hold the world hostage against the gods. Who may just decide it's not worth it and scrap the world before Redcloak can actually unleash the Snarl.
Post by: Enemy post on March 30, 2022, 08:11:51 pm
Post by: Kagus on March 31, 2022, 01:25:05 am
Post by: scriver on March 31, 2022, 05:21:00 am
Post by: heydude6 on March 31, 2022, 10:25:01 am
Too bad Sironi lacks one important piece of information:
Redcloak intends to use the gate to hold the world hostage against the gods. Who may just decide it's not worth it and scrap the world before Redcloak can actually unleash the Snarl.
Looks like Rich brought it up.
Post by: Mobbstar on April 02, 2022, 10:08:02 am
Post by: Enemy post on April 02, 2022, 10:44:55 am
Post by: Lord Shonus on April 02, 2022, 09:25:48 pm
Post by: Mobbstar on April 26, 2022, 01:33:56 pm
We finally learn what Sunny's most powerful eye-ray is!!!1!
Post by: Mathel on April 27, 2022, 02:53:00 am
Giving Redcloak what he wants would involve changing the worldview of all the sentient races (including goblinoids). That's not something that can be done overnight. Not even by gods.
Sure, the various priesthoods could issue commandments that goblinoids are now considered people rather than monsters. But they'd still be in for decades or centuries of racism.
Scrapping the world, on the other hand, is easy. You just take out the godly scissors and cut it up. (It is, apparently, made of yarn).
Post by: Akura on April 27, 2022, 04:15:03 am
Consider a game developer's point of view: if there's something wrong with the program, should you patch it, or just dump the project and start all over again? Except in the gods' case, they write-lock the hard drive the game is installed on and the only way to publish an update patch is to buy a new drive.
Post by: Mathel on April 27, 2022, 04:31:18 am
If they could, they could just put a huge mountains without cave systems and with slightly below-average ore content (most of which would be galena) on them and make everybody forget the mountains were not there a month ago.
From dev's point of view: The issue is not really patching the program. The program is currently running, and if it crashes, the computer explodes. If the dev turns it off manually, they will be fine, but all unsaved progress will be lost.
Post by: hops on April 27, 2022, 07:23:32 am
By the very fact that the gates need to be guarded by mortals, it should be obvious the gods can't edit the world as they wish.ok but now i have this conspiracy theory that there's another gate which the gods just threw a mountain on top of and made everyone including themselves forget about it
If they could, they could just put a huge mountains without cave systems and with slightly below-average ore content (most of which would be galena) on them and make everybody forget the mountains were not there a month ago.
From dev's point of view: The issue is not really patching the program. The program is currently running, and if it crashes, the computer explodes. If the dev turns it off manually, they will be fine, but all unsaved progress will be lost.
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 27, 2022, 08:32:20 am
Post by: Rolan7 on May 13, 2022, 09:40:41 am
In which something is shiny! Pretty sure that's all that happens.
Post by: Egan_BW on May 13, 2022, 04:14:27 pm
Post by: Kagus on May 14, 2022, 01:52:17 am
Also this sounds like an excellent opportunity to cordon off the other two and deal with them separately
Post by: Rolan7 on May 14, 2022, 09:29:19 am
Seems like they'd really rather prefer to fight Xykon indoors where he can't avoid Ron Greenhelm's ancestral sword, but I picture Xykon wandering back in anyway. He's kinda an awful tactician/strategist, who would assume that Redcloak's just wasting too much time over some nerdy thing.
Post by: hops on May 16, 2022, 07:36:47 am
Post by: Lord Shonus on May 16, 2022, 09:54:27 am
Post by: hops on May 24, 2022, 04:53:47 am
Post by: Kagus on May 24, 2022, 09:18:25 am
jeez, these guys are way underleveled. why didn't they do more sidequests?
Railroading.
Post by: Enemy post on May 27, 2022, 06:29:25 pm
Post by: Mathel on May 28, 2022, 01:13:18 am
Also, I don't know what spells V has, but Dimension Door should be able to skip the swap-over, taking several teammembers with them. I am certain they are at least level 15, so they should be able to take 5 people. That should be Roy, both paladins, Durkon and Minrah.
When Xykon is distracted, Haley can go through the swap-over with Sunshine, Belkar and Elan.
Post by: Kagus on May 28, 2022, 02:32:04 am
Unless... It's just a decoy bed, and the real bed is hidden through a secret passageway!
Post by: Enemy post on June 09, 2022, 10:53:03 am
Post by: heydude6 on June 09, 2022, 11:17:40 am
Post by: Enemy post on June 20, 2022, 06:18:26 pm
Post by: Mobbstar on June 26, 2022, 05:51:40 am
Post by: scriver on June 26, 2022, 06:07:25 am
Post by: Enemy post on July 05, 2022, 10:02:59 am
Post by: Enemy post on July 18, 2022, 11:40:41 am
Post by: JoshuaFH on July 18, 2022, 01:11:23 pm
Post by: TD1 on July 18, 2022, 01:14:30 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 18, 2022, 04:23:43 pm
Panel 11 is the most perfect encapsulation of sunk cost I've ever seen.
Post by: EuchreJack on July 20, 2022, 04:02:19 pm
"Even in mind's eye, there is no escape from cruel flippers of entropy."
Post by: TD1 on July 21, 2022, 07:22:32 am
Try not thinking about cruel flippers of entropy.
See? You can't.
Post by: scriver on July 21, 2022, 08:58:43 am
Post by: Egan_BW on July 21, 2022, 01:25:03 pm
But remember, losing is Fun!
Post by: EuchreJack on July 22, 2022, 11:05:16 am
He's not wrong.
Try not thinking about cruel flippers of entropy.
See? You can't.
Actually, it took me a solid minute to remember the comic and correctly deduct what that even meant.
Had I not wished to think about it, I could have easily just ignored it as nonsense.
Post by: TD1 on July 25, 2022, 07:43:26 am
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 27, 2022, 06:19:21 am
Post by: Mobbstar on July 30, 2022, 12:18:35 pm
Post by: Enemy post on July 30, 2022, 12:28:54 pm
Post by: MorleyDev on July 30, 2022, 02:44:27 pm
Post by: Enemy post on August 11, 2022, 10:33:52 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on August 12, 2022, 12:56:49 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on August 12, 2022, 01:48:08 pm
I'm particularly looking forward to the conclusion of his "alliance" with Xykon. Xykon seemed very suspicious of Redcloak when Tsukiko died, and lied about having given her the ritual piece. Yet he immediately dropped the issue like nothing was wrong. (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0833.html) He's certainly stupid, but bluff uses his casting stat...
Post by: Great Order on August 14, 2022, 06:59:29 pm
One example is the energy drain. Repeatedly uses the same spell because he's lazy. Repeatedly uses the same spell that's really effective because he's also smart enough to do that.
Post by: Kagus on August 15, 2022, 02:46:36 am
Post by: Enemy post on August 18, 2022, 09:33:59 am
Post by: Rolan7 on August 18, 2022, 11:22:53 am
Spoiler: Punchline (click to show/hide)
Post by: Akura on August 18, 2022, 12:17:36 pm
I'm also going to predict that there will be a fight between Sunny and the quinton.
Post by: Mathel on August 18, 2022, 04:01:16 pm
Even if the modrons don't notice the trap, Quinton is going to realize the internal spaces of the various dungeons overlap in a wrong way. In such a way, that they can't possibly be in the same wall on the same plane.
I think Redcloak already listened to the terms before, so unless they changed, he should be good to go.
However, I suspect not telling Quinton what they are searching for might harm team Xykon. Quinton might already know where the Gate is.
Post by: Akura on August 18, 2022, 07:47:44 pm
I think Redcloak already listened to the terms before, so unless they changed, he should be good to go.
However, I suspect not telling Quinton what they are searching for might harm team Xykon. Quinton might already know where the Gate is.
Nah, he said he's summoned the lesser modrons before, and knows that contract. Even similar software by the same publisher might have very different EULAs. Since it's a binding, magically enforced contract(which EULAs are generally not), it might be a good idea to read the fine print.
The quinton most certainly would not know where the Gate is, since the gods make absolutely sure that their planar residents know nothing about the cycle of worlds, as Thor mentioned to Durkon while he was being resurrected. The Arch-fiends did not until Sabine told them, and she didn't know until Nale found out about it.
Post by: Kagus on August 19, 2022, 02:47:13 am
Post by: Enemy post on August 29, 2022, 12:10:57 pm
Post by: Mathel on August 29, 2022, 01:14:03 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on August 29, 2022, 01:35:25 pm
Post by: JoshuaFH on August 29, 2022, 03:59:01 pm
Post by: Enemy post on August 29, 2022, 09:25:39 pm
Post by: Shinziril on August 29, 2022, 09:58:18 pm
It might be easier the way Xykon chose. Now he only has to check one word, not the whole sentence.
The original request also specified only that the sentence must end in a word containing an even number of letters, Xykon just switched it to odd instead of even.
Post by: scriver on August 30, 2022, 05:37:35 am
So, I wonder what important spells consist of an even number of letters.
Finger of death
Post by: Mathel on August 30, 2022, 01:39:02 pm
But the final word is odd.So, I wonder what important spells consist of an even number of letters.
Finger of death
What about:
Mass Hold Person.
Fireball.
Teleport.
Symbol of Pain.
Post by: Lord Shonus on August 30, 2022, 02:33:37 pm
Post by: Culise on August 30, 2022, 11:45:26 pm
So, I wonder what important spells consist of an even number of letters.He's also holding a Superb Dispelling (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1216.html) in reserve, but an extra insult at the end of the vocal component will resolve that just as nicely.
Post by: scriver on August 31, 2022, 08:08:33 am
But the final word is odd.So, I wonder what important spells consist of an even number of letters.
Finger of death
I was more thinking about which spells he would still be able to cast ;)
Post by: Mathel on September 06, 2022, 10:18:54 am
Post by: Rolan7 on September 06, 2022, 10:23:27 am
Post by: Kagus on September 06, 2022, 11:04:27 am
Post by: heydude6 on September 06, 2022, 02:48:28 pm
Either way, it seems like the Modron got a good deal out of it.
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 06, 2022, 03:15:00 pm
Like, describing a book as either "red" or "read".
Post by: Mathel on September 07, 2022, 08:37:37 am
Post by: Rolan7 on September 07, 2022, 09:18:34 am
Then when O-Chul was imprisoned near MitD they had a lot of conversations, played some Go and shared meals. O-Chul convinced MitD that Xykon is taking advantage of him. Then MitD teleported O-Chul and V teleport to safety through unknown means.
Here in the canyon he's been trying to sabotage the search by "accidentally" painting extra doors that haven't been explored. I don't think he has much of a plan, but he has turned against Team Evil pretty completely.
Post by: Lord Shonus on September 07, 2022, 01:54:43 pm
What bothers me is that the MitD is actively trying to trip up Xykon. Why? I thought that MitD was on the eviler of the sides.
MITD has been trying to stop Xykon for a long time. He straight-up saved the Order at Girard's Rift by convincing Xykon that O'Chul was the real heroic threat and the order was a bunch of nobodies.
Before his time with O'Chul, he was just sitting around doing whatever he was told because it was easier, but he was never actually evil. Just an unspecified juvenile monster of immense power.
Post by: Mobbstar on September 14, 2022, 02:39:51 am
Post by: hops on September 19, 2022, 08:02:35 am
He's been stomping the good guys unintentionally every time he interacted with one but I wonder if he's actually a threat to Redcloak and Xykon? I don't think sorcerors and clerics have any mind control spells but I'm not the most well-versed in DnD. Or I guess they could just plane shift MitD if he gets uppity and he'd take forever to get back on his own.
Post by: Akura on September 19, 2022, 09:09:33 am
Post by: Great Order on September 19, 2022, 10:11:38 am
Roy's definitely learned from Elan.
Post by: Kagus on September 19, 2022, 01:00:18 pm
Post by: hops on September 29, 2022, 07:08:06 pm
Hard to say. Xykon does have him under a magical compulsion(probably Geas) to kill Redcloak, eat him, and spit out his holy symbol if Redcloak ever betrays him. So I figure he's stronger than Redcloak, but weaker than Xykon.I mean, MitD being under a Geas doesn't really confirm that he's weaker than Xykon. We know that he's a complete pushover, so Xykon could easily roll up with a contract and order him to say yes to it without any overt coercion.
Post by: Enemy post on October 01, 2022, 09:20:52 pm
Post by: Mathel on October 02, 2022, 12:57:21 am
Post by: Mephansteras on October 02, 2022, 01:58:06 pm
Post by: Enemy post on November 12, 2022, 11:31:36 am
Post by: Akura on November 12, 2022, 04:13:46 pm
Post by: scriver on November 13, 2022, 08:25:31 am
Has to be a big issue for beholders
Post by: Rolan7 on November 13, 2022, 08:34:43 am
Also I assumed Sunny was male but the wiki indicates no gender has been revealed yet, neat!
Anyway I love a good callback like this, I had completely forgotten about #32.
Post by: Mathel on November 13, 2022, 10:40:14 am
Post by: hops on November 15, 2022, 04:54:35 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on November 15, 2022, 04:55:53 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 15, 2022, 05:38:18 pm
V's gender is "Divorced Parent"
Post by: heydude6 on November 15, 2022, 06:44:03 pm
The Giant has used the term "genderqueer" to describe V.
The problem I have with a declaration like that is that words like genderqueer hadn’t even entered the popular consciousness back when Order of the Stick was first being written in 2003.
Rich didn’t imagine V being that type of person back then and didn’t write them as such either. It’s just a clumsy retcon meant to capitalize on current trends, and it shows!
Objectively speaking based on what’s written in the text, V is an elf who presents in such a way that people struggle to assign them a gender. This is played entirely as a joke about how elves are effeminate. When people ask V directly about what gender they are (ie. what pronouns they would like to use), V gives evasive answers. Again as a continuation of the joke.
What’s clear from these interactions is that V does not want to identify as any gender! Such a description is a closer match to someone who sees themselves as androgynous rather than someone who changes what gender they identify as based on their whims, which is what genderqueer actually is!
Because Rich doesn’t understand the people he’s trying to pander to, it limits the amount of depth he can give V as a non-binary character. His attempt to pivot V’s gender from a joke about girly elves to a strong genderqueer icon only ends up being surface level, and a disappointment to any queer reader who may have been drawn in by Rich’s bold declarations.
In a world where people like J.K Rowling exist, the best way to analyze a character remains through “Death of the Author”. V is still a good character (nothing wrong with being a divorced parent), but if Rich wants those progressive brownie points, he’s got to let his writing speak for itself.
So how’d I do Rolan7? Is there anything you think I missed? You’d know more about this topic than I would.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 15, 2022, 07:03:12 pm
The problem I have with a declaration like that is that words like genderqueer hadn’t even entered the popular consciousness back when Order of the Stick was first being written in 2003.Yes! Though I don't think V evades, I think they use narrative convenience to avoid answering a question they don't even see. There are indications that they think their gender is obvious, and they refuse to state it. And I love that.
Rich didn’t imagine V being that type of person back then and didn’t write them as such either. It’s just a clumsy retcon meant to capitalize on current trends, and it shows!
Objectively speaking based on what’s written in the text, V is an elf who presents in such a way that people struggle to assign them a gender. This is played entirely as a joke about how elves are effeminate. When people ask V directly about what gender they are (ie. what pronouns they would like to use), V gives evasive answers. Again as a continuation of the joke.
Technically they wouldn't even be NB, but technically genderqueer from a non-elf perspective.
Probably male or female!
(or maybe NB)
What’s clear from these interactions is that V does not want to identify as any gender! Such a description is a closer match to someone who sees themselves as androgynous rather than someone who changes what gender they identify as based on their whims, which is what genderqueer actually is!Yeah, ninehells yeah!
Because Rich doesn’t understand the people he’s trying to pander to, it limits the amount of depth he can give V as a non-binary character. His attempt to pivot V’s gender from a joke about girly elves to a strong genderqueer icon only ends up being surface level, and a disappointment to any queer reader who may have been drawn in by Rich’s bold declarations.Oh, this came up very strongly in a certain thread. It was... interesting. That was Rich's conclusion though, yes, and I fully agree with his take. It was respectful.
He didn't want to introduce token trans characters for fear of mismanaging them. That's unfortunate but I get it. I myself would trust him to do it, to the extent that I projected trans-NB into V (and so did many other readers). But I personally respect his decision not to try to write trans characters.
WHILE WRITING TRANS CHARACTERS
V and the lady dwarf cleric are potential characters we can enjoy, and there is nothing at all objectionable about them. They can be interpreted other ways, but it's still nice.
In a world where people like J.K Rowling exist, the best way to analyze a character remains through “Death of the Author”. V is still a good character (nothing wrong with being a divorced parent), but if Rich wants those progressive brownie points, he’s got to let his writing speak for itself.</3
wait what the fck
So how’d I do Rolan7? Is there anything you think I missed? You’d know more about this topic than I would.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 15, 2022, 07:22:41 pm
Well no, to be clear: I think V is gender-ambiguous, whereas I am solidly defying gender (when I'm not actively performing it, male or female depending- it gets complicated)What’s clear from these interactions is that V does not want to identify as any gender! Such a description is a closer match to someone who sees themselves as androgynous rather than someone who changes what gender they identify as based on their whims, which is what genderqueer actually is!Yeah, ninehells yeah!
My theory is that V has a gender, and is confused every time people don't see it. Hence me saying they're probably male or female. But elves defy the human preconceptions of gender, appearing androgynous.
Post by: Egan_BW on November 15, 2022, 08:38:29 pm
Post by: heydude6 on November 15, 2022, 11:27:37 pm
So how’d I do Rolan7? Is there anything you think I missed? You’d know more about this topic than I would.wait what the fck
While I was writing my post, I noticed you had recently posted in the thread so I thought I'd ask an NB person to check my homework.
And it seems like I was right to ask. You bring good evidence for the fact that Varsuvius is not Androgynous.
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 20, 2022, 08:39:31 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 21, 2022, 07:05:02 am
V's gender is "Divorced Parent"Lmao this is too accurate. Still V's doing their best without custody after going on a midlife sorcery crisis bender
Post by: Enemy post on November 26, 2022, 02:21:21 am
Post by: Kagus on November 26, 2022, 09:43:09 am
Post by: Enemy post on December 18, 2022, 01:38:51 pm
Post by: Mobbstar on December 18, 2022, 03:27:11 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on January 18, 2023, 11:32:23 pm
Now with more topical references! heh
Post by: Egan_BW on January 18, 2023, 11:35:28 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on January 18, 2023, 11:56:14 pm
I make that mistake pretty often but usually catch it. Thankfully the grace period for quiet edits is something like 30 seconds. not that it comes up almost daily for me
Post by: Egan_BW on January 18, 2023, 11:59:34 pm
Post by: Mobbstar on January 19, 2023, 10:34:23 am
On the topic of editing posts: Is there a way to document why the edit happened or what has changed? It feels awkward to edit stuff after people have replied. (We could write it in the post, but that's as trust-based as no message at all.)
Post by: Egan_BW on January 19, 2023, 10:53:34 am
Post by: Lord Shonus on January 19, 2023, 02:48:49 pm
This feels like a filler / recap page. I gained nothing from it. Maybe it is some subtle set-up for an epiphany next page?
The theory I've seen on the GiTP and SA discussion threads is that the last panel is a pretty strong hint that
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Akura on January 19, 2023, 04:23:31 pm
Post by: Duuvian on January 20, 2023, 03:47:59 am
This feels like a filler / recap page. I gained nothing from it. Maybe it is some subtle set-up for an epiphany next page?
The theory I've seen on the GiTP and SA discussion threads is that the last panel is a pretty strong hint thatSpoiler (click to show/hide)
I thought that too, but mostly because of the long exposition by Roy up until the last few panels. I wondered prior to those panels if the sending (or whatever spell Julia is using) could be altered in appearence by a polymorph in this setting. Did Roy divulge information the evil team didn't know already? If not, he may have been spy checking with the memory callback. Do clerics have access to a read memories type spell? I bet it's not long ranged if so. That would mean Redcloak, if the sending is from him, might not have had opportunity to use it on the real Julia, assuming minions were sent to capture Julia and the sending is not the real Julia. Are rolls to remember information in this setting (if any) done on Wisdom or Intelligence or maybe in this case Charisma? Since she's a wizard, perhaps the roll was more difficult unless it was intelligence, and especially if it was Charisma (due to the memory being about someone else).
Post by: Imic on January 20, 2023, 07:21:17 am
Post by: Mathel on January 20, 2023, 11:57:06 am
Quote
The subject recognizes you if it knows you.This means Roy would recognize Redcloak if it was him.
There are other magics though.
My guess is that it is Julia, being Dominated by Xykon. He could then force her to talk to Roy.
Post by: Egan_BW on January 20, 2023, 12:38:44 pm
One day when I am old, I aspire to be an elderly halfling living in the backstage of a huge bigger-on-the-inside magic dungeon complex filled with traps and secrets built to prevent anyone from possibly getting into the deeper hidden secrets.The dungeon isn't actually bigger on the inside, it just makes clever use of portals to appear bigger on the inside. [/pedantry] ;p
Post by: JoshuaFH on January 20, 2023, 05:36:13 pm
If it is a fake, it's not Sending. Sending explicitly states thatQuoteThe subject recognizes you if it knows you.This means Roy would recognize Redcloak if it was him.
There are other magics though.
My guess is that it is Julia, being Dominated by Xykon. He could then force her to talk to Roy.
If it is a fake, it's not Sending. Sending explicitly states thatQuoteThe subject recognizes you if it knows you.This means Roy would recognize Redcloak if it was him.
There are other magics though.
My guess is that it is Julia, being Dominated by Xykon. He could then force her to talk to Roy.
Real talk, who even knows about Julia besides Roy? Consuming the comic when it only drip feeds me one or two pages a month really erodes my memory on the continuity.
Post by: Lord Shonus on January 20, 2023, 05:58:16 pm
This ignores all the ways you can find out about things in a D&D world.
Post by: Mobbstar on January 22, 2023, 10:20:24 am
The devils are likely still able to scry, despite the anti-magic stone. Unless this is a psy-op, they're not behind this either.
Neither of them have mentioned how their last conversation ended. Roy wanted to say something about their father.
Post by: Enemy post on January 27, 2023, 12:45:17 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on January 27, 2023, 04:01:59 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lord Shonus on January 27, 2023, 05:38:55 pm
Post by: Devastator on January 27, 2023, 05:41:07 pm
Post by: Akura on January 27, 2023, 06:07:50 pm
Julia doesn't have the same alignment as Roy.
By her own admission (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0343.html), she's True Neutral.
Post by: crazyabe on January 27, 2023, 06:22:30 pm
Post by: Mathel on January 28, 2023, 06:26:21 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: scriver on January 28, 2023, 07:03:33 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Mathel on January 28, 2023, 07:27:41 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: scriver on January 28, 2023, 08:05:31 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Egan_BW on January 28, 2023, 02:06:40 pm
Post by: JoshuaFH on January 28, 2023, 06:53:10 pm
Post by: Mathel on January 29, 2023, 03:03:56 am
There is no altered Sending spell, she died in a bizzare homework related accident.
Post by: crazyabe on January 29, 2023, 07:37:43 am
Post by: Rolan7 on January 29, 2023, 11:44:55 am
I keep considering dead Julia because the evidence for Eugene seems *too* strong. I wonder how she would have died in a way that fits the narrative? "Bizarre homework related accident" that was so embarrassing it becomes a Noodle Incident? I hope it wasn't Pompey, that seems too... mundane. (I forgot about the Pompey/Vaarsuvius names, heh)
Post by: Mathel on January 29, 2023, 11:55:33 am
Sure, he probably could impersonate Julia and the last thing Roy said to him was "Pawn these visits off on Julia", but unless he is afraid Roy will destroy him with the sword, there isn't much point in doing that. What does he have to gain in impersonating her? Conversation? But if he has to pretend to be Julia, then the whole conversation thing is worthless.
Post by: hops on February 03, 2023, 09:13:30 pm
Post by: Elephant Parade on February 09, 2023, 04:17:30 pm
I think this is Eugene not Julia. "She" seemed really trapped by the fighter-school audition thing until Roy gave an out. And the "my... family's burden" thing seems almost direct.Yeah, it's like she catches herself saying "my burden" before switching to "my family's burden." That fits Eugene-pretending-to-be-Julia better than Julia herself, who's never shown much of a sense of duty. It'd also lend a new meaning to "being stuck up here," and disguises are already in Eugene's playbook.
I keep considering dead Julia because the evidence for Eugene seems *too* strong. I wonder how she would have died in a way that fits the narrative? "Bizarre homework related accident" that was so embarrassing it becomes a Noodle Incident? I hope it wasn't Pompey, that seems too... mundane. (I forgot about the Pompey/Vaarsuvius names, heh)
I don't think it is Eugene, because there isn't much point in it.The continued opportunity to push Roy toward fulfilling the oath at any cost, something Julia/Eugene attempts:
Sure, he probably could impersonate Julia and the last thing Roy said to him was "Pawn these visits off on Julia", but unless he is afraid Roy will destroy him with the sword, there isn't much point in doing that. What does he have to gain in impersonating her? Conversation? But if he has to pretend to be Julia, then the whole conversation thing is worthless.
(https://i.imgur.com/ajC2a4k.png)
That or Julia refused to do it. Either way, there's no reason to think she's dead.
Post by: Mobbstar on February 10, 2023, 11:27:48 am
Admittedly, something doesn't fit there, but I can't put my finger on it. ;D
Post by: Rolan7 on February 10, 2023, 02:15:32 pm
Spoiler: Reason (click to show/hide)
Post by: Akura on February 10, 2023, 04:40:08 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Bec_ on February 21, 2023, 03:16:02 pm
https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1275.html
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Akura on February 21, 2023, 04:45:44 pm
Didn't spend much time with the kid with the puppet, did you?
Post by: scriver on February 22, 2023, 03:52:36 am
Post by: Enemy post on March 03, 2023, 12:06:10 pm
Post by: scriver on March 03, 2023, 12:34:04 pm
Post by: hops on March 05, 2023, 06:33:34 am
Post by: Akura on March 05, 2023, 12:16:46 pm
Spoiler: Possible scenario? (click to show/hide)
Post by: Immortal-D on March 09, 2023, 03:49:21 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on March 09, 2023, 04:12:45 pm
Some people called this, but not many.
Post by: Dorsidwarf on March 10, 2023, 06:47:21 am
Post by: scriver on March 10, 2023, 08:00:27 am
I am both excited and terrified by the prospect that we are definitely reaching the end game of this series.
When I think back, it's been a staple of my life
Post by: Great Order on March 10, 2023, 12:03:41 pm
In the meantime, given the rate of updates, I'm sure we've got at least a year or two, if not more. And you can always read it through again.
Post by: Akura on March 10, 2023, 04:12:52 pm
Spoiler: Idea for beating the villains (click to show/hide)
Post by: Akura on March 27, 2023, 06:51:35 pm
Classy.
Post by: Mobbstar on March 28, 2023, 12:45:45 pm
Post by: Akura on March 28, 2023, 03:41:33 pm
Counting the words is driving me crazy. How come one of those is a compound and the other isn't?
If you're talking about Xykon, it's the last word of every sentence must have an odd number of letters, not an odd number of words in the sentence.
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 28, 2023, 05:49:28 pm
In lich butt
Post by: Kagus on March 29, 2023, 08:30:14 am
Unless it's the same person who's the first to walk out each time, they won't be able to accumulate all the marks necessary. Which would be good design if that's how it actually is working, but something tells me that's not the case. Also, does Xykon even have a butt to inscribe? Do the glyphs flash an error message when they can't write to a location, or is that exception handled?
Also can Xykon get boned by finishing a sentence with something like the odd-numbered "color", but Mechanus only accepts UK spellings like the even-numbered "colour"?
Post by: Mathel on March 29, 2023, 08:48:49 am
As for Xykon and his butt, he does have a pelvic bone, onto which the tattoo could be inscribed.
Post by: scriver on March 29, 2023, 11:38:42 am
Post by: Egan_BW on March 29, 2023, 12:23:40 pm
Also can Xykon get boned by finishing a sentence with something like the odd-numbered "color", but Mechanus only accepts UK spellings like the even-numbered "colour"?
While any failure on Xykon's part would give the dron an excuse to pull out immediately, I think it'll be content as long as Xy's making some effort.
Post by: Mobbstar on March 31, 2023, 12:43:23 am
Post by: Akura on March 31, 2023, 04:15:26 am
Xykons butt has the biggest plot hole of this series so far
I believe the most common comment about this is, "Good thing Redcloak killed Tsukiko."
Post by: TD1 on March 31, 2023, 12:39:26 pm
It's a being of law. The law doesn't give out participation trophies.
Also can Xykon get boned by finishing a sentence with something like the odd-numbered "color", but Mechanus only accepts UK spellings like the even-numbered "colour"?
While any failure on Xykon's part would give the dron an excuse to pull out immediately, I think it'll be content as long as Xy's making some effort.
Post by: Egan_BW on March 31, 2023, 03:22:01 pm
Post by: crazyabe on April 01, 2023, 02:55:15 am
It increases the force of Law whether Xycon fucks up or not, so long as he's trying and resisting his Chaotic nature. Quin is perfectly capable of resisting the urge to rules lawyer if doing so would be a net negative. It's capable of calculating that!it also knows the moment Xycon has any slack he's going to give up on all effort to keep his end of the bargain, thus Quin can't not rules lawyer or else Xycon will add to the chaos of the world ever so slightly again.
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 01, 2023, 03:02:29 am
I think it's clear that, if Xykon decides to carefully choose all his sentences to end in ambiguously spelled words out of spite, this is just as good for the purpose of forcing him to make an orderly choice.It increases the force of Law whether Xycon fucks up or not, so long as he's trying and resisting his Chaotic nature. Quin is perfectly capable of resisting the urge to rules lawyer if doing so would be a net negative. It's capable of calculating that!it also knows the moment Xycon has any slack he's going to give up on all effort to keep his end of the bargain, thus Quin can't not rules lawyer or else Xycon will add to the chaos of the world ever so slightly again.
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 01, 2023, 05:00:27 am
Post by: Rolan7 on April 27, 2023, 04:27:54 pm
Rolan love wordy comic. Very quotable!
Post by: Lord Shonus on April 27, 2023, 05:33:28 pm
Post by: scriver on April 28, 2023, 02:20:33 am
Post by: TD1 on April 28, 2023, 05:02:18 am
The blue-hair paladin is Jesus.
Vaarsuvius is John, who is often mistaken for Mary (in other words, the character whose sex/gender is under most contention).
Which exhausts my knowledge concerning the apostles. There are probably many more parallels involving other characters/apostles.
Loving it :D
Edit: Oh, also, possible foreshadowing for later in the comic. Will Belkar sacrifice/cause-the-death-of blue-hair?
Edit edit: Okay I looked more into the apostle stuff. Roy and ogre-halfing (okay so I don't try to remember their names, sue me >:( ) are imitating the pose of Thaddeus and Simon the Zealot respectively. This is interesting, because the two later suffer a joint martyrdom.
Post by: Rolan7 on April 28, 2023, 06:59:10 am
"Easter egg"? :P
(But she's half troll not half ogre... whatever her name is. Siri? Sirini? Starshine?)
Post by: Mobbstar on April 29, 2023, 03:51:25 am
The middle panel seems an obvious reference to the Final Supper/Passover painting.
I disagree. Firstly, L’Ultima Cena by Leonardo da Vinci (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/Last_Supper_by_Leonardo_da_Vinci.jpg) features thirteen characters, as opposed to the ten in OotS.
Secondly, the Last Supper scene is when Jesus reveals he has been betrayed and will be executed soon. No such revelation has happened in the OotS scene.
Thirdly, the facings do not line up with the characters you have assigned. The five apostles to the left are all facing right, John and Jesus are looking at nobody, the three apostles right of them are facing left, and the rightmost three are talking in a group of their own. That's a big group and a small group. In OotS, it is two equally-sized groups, though arguably Minra and Haley are not in any group at all.
If it is meant as a play on the Last Supper, then only in passing without much to read into.
Post by: Kagus on April 29, 2023, 05:12:16 pm
Now whether or not that fishiness is a red herring is another matter
Post by: Akura on April 29, 2023, 06:27:08 pm
Post by: Lord Shonus on April 30, 2023, 03:17:16 am
The other thing is, her Gate is essentially invulnerable to accidental discovery - nobody is going to just accidentally clear all the dungeons out if they don't have a reason to know the final one is even there. Particularly given that the monsters are strong enough to provide a meaningful challenge to an epic level lich. Xykon is at least level 22, which means he's effectively level 26 for XP purposes. And is gaining experience in these dungeons. This suggests that most parties that tried to clear it (as opposed to the hobgoblin tribe that sees the monsters themselves as the core resource and just hunts enough to get what they need) would be swiftly destroyed.
Post by: Lord Shonus on May 04, 2023, 08:19:11 am
Post by: TD1 on May 04, 2023, 09:07:04 am
or
Bel-care?
Post by: Enemy post on May 15, 2023, 11:53:44 am
Post by: Rolan7 on June 05, 2023, 05:15:55 am
Post by: Kagus on June 05, 2023, 05:58:38 am
Post by: Enemy post on June 27, 2023, 08:50:54 am
Post by: Kagus on June 27, 2023, 10:20:15 am
Post by: Mathel on June 27, 2023, 10:25:14 am
Post by: Enemy post on July 25, 2023, 10:17:13 am
Post by: scriver on July 25, 2023, 11:54:54 am
Post by: Enemy post on August 15, 2023, 10:46:15 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on August 15, 2023, 10:59:40 pm
Post by: scriver on August 16, 2023, 05:22:17 am
You either die one or you live long enough to see yourself become the other
Post by: Maximum Spin on August 16, 2023, 06:55:57 am
They're wearing a trenchcoat and pretending to be a single human being.
Post by: ChairmanPoo on August 16, 2023, 01:13:05 pm
There are two halflings inside you.
They're wearing a trenchcoat and pretending to be a single human being.
I have two halflings fighting in my heart. One halfling is fearful, vengeful, envious, resentful and deceitful. The other halfling is compassionate, loving, generous, truthful and peaceful. Which halfling will win the fight? The one I feed ,my precious
Post by: Enemy post on August 26, 2023, 09:55:10 am
Post by: Mathel on August 26, 2023, 01:01:55 pm
Post by: scriver on August 26, 2023, 02:04:44 pm
Post by: Kagus on August 27, 2023, 01:48:35 am
Post by: Enemy post on September 05, 2023, 05:01:26 pm
Post by: Great Order on September 06, 2023, 04:44:03 am
I want to know know. Did they wind up linking to the same gate by accident? Is there one less gate than they thought? Did they hire the same contractor?
Post by: scriver on September 06, 2023, 06:40:41 am
I thought there'd be some discussion on the dungeon honestly.
I want to know know. Did they wind up linking to the same gate by accident? Is there one less gate than they thought? Did they hire the same contractor?
Yeah.
The joke was good though, at least.
Post by: Lord Shonus on September 06, 2023, 08:16:13 am
I want to know know. Did they wind up linking to the same gate by accident? Is there one less gate than they thought? Did they hire the same contractor?
This can't actually be Dorukan's Dungeon, because Elan blew Dorukan's Dungeon to Kingdom Come.
Post by: Mathel on September 06, 2023, 08:41:32 am
Unless it is Dorukan's Dungeon of the Past.I want to know know. Did they wind up linking to the same gate by accident? Is there one less gate than they thought? Did they hire the same contractor?
This can't actually be Dorukan's Dungeon, because Elan blew Dorukan's Dungeon to Kingdom Come.
But that is unlikely. This is Kraagor's gate, and confusing it with Dorukan's makes no sense.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on September 06, 2023, 12:56:40 pm
Post by: martinuzz on September 06, 2023, 08:31:56 pm
Post by: Akura on September 07, 2023, 04:18:53 am
Inb4 Belkor multiclasses to healer
Technically speaking, as a high level Ranger he already is... if his dump stat wasn't Wisdom.
Post by: TD1 on September 07, 2023, 06:04:33 am
It's Serini's Gate, which she built in honour of Kraagor. I assume that the memorial aspect doesn't extend throughout the entire Gate, since this kind of interconnectivity (literally or otherwise) is the kind of shenanigan that a rogue might do to confuse and disorient intruders. Serini does know where all of the other gates are, so it's not a big stretch to assume she would know about their defenses and design.
Yea, but it seems ridiculously stupid to design her gate in such a way as to give clues concerning the other gates' defenses.
Post by: crazyabe on September 07, 2023, 08:11:04 am
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on September 07, 2023, 10:03:35 am
Yea, but it seems ridiculously stupid to design her gate in such a way as to give clues concerning the other gates' defenses.
Xykon knows where the gates are because younger Serini wrote it (encoded) into her diary. It might be stupid, but it's not out of character.
Post by: TD1 on September 07, 2023, 10:05:49 am
As opposed to a trap/gate designed with someone hostile entering it in mind.
Post by: Kagus on September 07, 2023, 06:02:55 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on September 19, 2023, 09:41:10 am
Classics
Post by: Akura on September 22, 2023, 04:28:01 am
Post by: Criptfeind on September 22, 2023, 07:16:56 am
The bigger issue the disenchanter would face I notice, now that I'm rereading it's stat block, is when sucking from magic items with charges it sucks 10-40% of the current charges. So if you had a wand with 10 charges it'd suck like 4, then 2, then 2, then 1, then be stuck I guess? Suckling on that last remaining charge like me trying to get the last of the peanut butter out of the jar for a 3AM sandwich?
Every year hundreds of disenchanters starve to death trying to suck out the final charge from a wand. For the low low price of an enchanted shield per month, you can save a life. Call now.
Post by: Kagus on September 22, 2023, 08:06:51 am
Post by: Akura on September 22, 2023, 03:46:46 pm
Also, are you reading the 3.5 stat block for disenchanters? Because these look like they might be from an older edition based on what I'm seeing on the GitP forum. I don't have access to anything more than the SRD so I don't know.
Post by: Criptfeind on September 22, 2023, 04:59:06 pm
Also, are you reading the 3.5 stat block for disenchanters? Because these look like they might be from an older edition based on what I'm seeing on the GitP forum. I don't have access to anything more than the SRD so I don't know.
The one I was reading was the 3.0 stat block, but the book it's in (the first fiend folio) is in that gray area before 3.5 where it's before 3.5 was published but they knew 3.5 was coming so it's basically compatible with 3.5.
Of course, it could be from any edition or even have abilities heretofore unseen altogether. I wasn't making too serious a statement.
Post by: hops on October 10, 2023, 05:37:56 am
Post by: Mathel on October 10, 2023, 08:20:09 am
Post by: Kagus on October 10, 2023, 09:03:41 am
Post by: Rolan7 on October 10, 2023, 09:20:45 am
I dunno if skeletons have knees though. It feels natural to say they have arms, but there are actual bones there. Would we say a skull has eyes? A skull without otherworldly lights in the sockets, I mean...
A skeleton might be said to have a nose, because there's a strongly defined gap in the right place. But does it have a butt? I'm leaning towards no butt or knees.
Post by: Mathel on October 10, 2023, 10:57:54 am
The thing about knees is that they are joints. While a skeleton doesn't have the muscles and tendons that power it, it has dark magic instead of those.
And the important thing about joints is that they allow the body to bend. If you used necromantic magic to fuse a skeleton's leg bones (femur, patella, tibia and fibula) together, it would have quite a bit of trouble walking
Post by: Egan_BW on October 10, 2023, 03:18:15 pm
Post by: Kagus on October 10, 2023, 04:21:04 pm
Post by: Enemy post on October 10, 2023, 07:30:54 pm
Post by: Kagus on October 11, 2023, 03:34:21 am
Post by: Mathel on October 11, 2023, 08:05:38 am
The definition I am using is "The joint between the upper leg and the lower leg."
Which means that I count any fully assembled skeleton of a legged creature as having knees. In fact, if you just had the 4 bones that connect there and put them together, you'd assemble the knee.
It doesn't matter to me what powers the knees, or even if the knees happen to be powered.
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 11, 2023, 09:40:13 am
You can have a knee without having a kneecap - lizards don't have them, it turns out - but surely it's sufficient.
Post by: scriver on October 11, 2023, 09:53:57 am
Post by: TD1 on October 11, 2023, 10:59:41 am
Post by: Enemy post on November 03, 2023, 05:55:59 pm
Post by: heydude6 on November 03, 2023, 08:04:22 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 22, 2023, 08:19:52 pm
Wait...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Akura on November 22, 2023, 08:51:15 pm
Wait...Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rolan7 on November 22, 2023, 08:59:03 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Akura on November 22, 2023, 09:14:57 pm
Spoiler: Technical stuff (click to show/hide)
Post by: Frumple on November 22, 2023, 09:45:02 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 22, 2023, 11:09:09 pm
Post by: scriver on November 23, 2023, 02:42:54 am
Post by: Mathel on November 23, 2023, 10:41:52 am
Post by: Lord Shonus on November 23, 2023, 10:48:11 am
Post by: Akura on November 23, 2023, 12:02:48 pm
Post by: Culise on December 02, 2023, 06:56:15 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on December 04, 2023, 10:32:11 am
Post by: Mathel on December 04, 2023, 10:49:30 am
If there is a railing, it is likely somebody will be thrown over it.
If there isn't one, than there is a good chance the walkway will be destroyed.
Still, I find one thing weird:
Why are they going to the gate in the first place?
They want to stop Xykon, I get that. But there are exactly two places they know he will have to pass through to get to the gate.
1. Final Dungeon entry
2. The Gate room
They are going to the gate room, but really there is nothing they can do there that they can't do in the Final Dungeon Entry room. The only difference is, that if the fight happens in the Gate room, the Gate could get destroyed as collateral damage.
Post by: TD1 on December 04, 2023, 10:56:12 am
Post by: Akura on December 04, 2023, 11:31:29 am
Yeah, well, tell that to Kandro.
They are going to the gate room, but really there is nothing they can do there that they can't do in the Final Dungeon Entry room. The only difference is, that if the fight happens in the Gate room, the Gate could get destroyed as collateral damage.
I believe the plan is to let the dungeon stuff soften Xykon's team up before engaging.
Post by: Mathel on December 04, 2023, 11:52:15 am
They are going to the gate room, but really there is nothing they can do there that they can't do in the Final Dungeon Entry room. The only difference is, that if the fight happens in the Gate room, the Gate could get destroyed as collateral damage.
I believe the plan is to let the dungeon stuff soften Xykon's team up before engaging.
That might work. But going by previous cases of somebody fighting Xykon in a Gate room, it is not worth the risk.
In all three cases, the gate was destroyed as a result, after all.
Post by: Egan_BW on December 04, 2023, 12:18:12 pm
Post by: Enemy post on December 11, 2023, 12:23:03 pm
Post by: scriver on December 12, 2023, 05:11:51 am
Post by: Great Order on January 01, 2024, 07:45:09 pm
Who's that? Have I forgotten whose speech bubble that is or is it someone new?
Post by: Egan_BW on January 01, 2024, 07:51:22 pm
Post by: Kagus on January 02, 2024, 05:40:57 am
I also thought IFCC to begin with, but the bubble looks quite different from any of the established members'.
Post by: Mathel on January 02, 2024, 10:47:02 am
If the wall was made of magic stone, it would radiate magic. Anybody able to detect magic would see it plainly and know that they can just dispel that section of the wall.
But a hidden button is hidden until and unless someone actually tries to find it. And since the floor looks like acid, not many would have a reason to try.
Post by: crazyabe on January 04, 2024, 12:07:50 am
I disagree with Elan.just make *all* the walls out of magic stone that's directly against real stone, with some sections set to set off extra traps if dispelled, while others are simply structurally unsound. wastes the time of anyone who can't continually dispel magic, and renders all sorts of 'detect magic' type effects to be redundant- because magic is everywhere.
If the wall was made of magic stone, it would radiate magic. Anybody able to detect magic would see it plainly and know that they can just dispel that section of the wall.
But a hidden button is hidden until and unless someone actually tries to find it. And since the floor looks like acid, not many would have a reason to try.
Post by: Mathel on January 04, 2024, 09:55:05 am
Expensive...I disagree with Elan.just make *all* the walls out of magic stone that's directly against real stone, with some sections set to set off extra traps if dispelled, while others are simply structurally unsound. wastes the time of anyone who can't continually dispel magic, and renders all sorts of 'detect magic' type effects to be redundant- because magic is everywhere.
If the wall was made of magic stone, it would radiate magic. Anybody able to detect magic would see it plainly and know that they can just dispel that section of the wall.
But a hidden button is hidden until and unless someone actually tries to find it. And since the floor looks like acid, not many would have a reason to try.
And unless you also make the floor out of magic stone (Which you could, I guess.), critically weak to Antimagic Field.
Post by: anewaname on January 04, 2024, 01:20:47 pm
Post by: Great Order on January 10, 2024, 05:11:46 pm
There's the answer to who it is.
Post by: Egan_BW on January 10, 2024, 05:28:21 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Enemy post on January 23, 2024, 12:25:41 pm
Post by: hops on January 29, 2024, 04:35:40 am
well, it is, after all.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's not a D&D dungeon crawl if there isn't at least one random dragon in there who only wants to throw down for no good reason than because he's a dick.
Post by: Rolan7 on February 02, 2024, 11:20:40 am
Post by: Egan_BW on February 02, 2024, 04:03:40 pm
Post by: Enemy post on February 20, 2024, 04:37:01 am
Post by: Kagus on February 20, 2024, 05:21:15 am
Post by: Rolan7 on February 20, 2024, 08:10:24 am
Post by: scriver on February 20, 2024, 02:56:31 pm
Not at all how I expected it but still good enough :D
Post by: Rolan7 on March 11, 2024, 10:17:59 pm
Post by: scriver on March 12, 2024, 11:54:14 am
Post by: Enemy post on March 21, 2024, 09:17:42 am
Post by: Rolan7 on March 21, 2024, 09:44:04 am
If Bloodfeast dies I'm going to cryIf *spoiler* dies I'm going to cry
literally I think
Post by: heydude6 on March 21, 2024, 11:26:31 am
Spoiler: Actual spoilers (click to show/hide)
Post by: Egan_BW on March 21, 2024, 12:19:43 pm
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on April 10, 2024, 11:25:23 am
Post by: Kagus on April 11, 2024, 03:06:19 am
Post by: heydude6 on April 14, 2024, 08:12:14 pm