Post by: Leafsnail on September 18, 2009, 04:35:14 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Anyway, I can take 15 signups for Bay12 mafia. The roles are (although you will not be told what they do unless you are the role or it is your "known role"):
Methilestesas
Alex-chan
Leafslug
LoonyMan
bookadict
Arg
ChAoTiCjIm
JanetFourEyes
Taitheproficient
Mrs.Human
Drakonian
Cobrarsenic
Jetpigeon
Dracron
ArchCherub
Tie results in No Lynch.
Players & Roleflips - Final Roundup:
chaoticjosh - Cobrarsenic - ELF!
Zaithemaster - ChAoTiCjIm - CULTIST!
Diakron - Leafslug - DOPPELGANGER!
Flipped roles:
Archcherub:
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Long hated for constant lurking, you now seek to prove 'em all wrong! Unfortunately, the other players are weary of you, and have slapped a penalty on you. You will not get a known role. Good luck convincing the other players that this is the case.LoonyMan:
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You are LoonyMan. You love getting into arguments. A lot. If you are lynched and your vote is on one of the people voting for you, that person is lynched with you. Because double lynches are, like, the way forwards.bookadict:
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You are bookadict. You are a magnet for hopelessly broken roles. While you have no powers this round, the person receiving your role as their known role will think you have a godly power.Drakonian:
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You are Drakonian. The similarity of name with Dracron confuses other players. All night actions aimed for you will instead go to him, providing he's alive, and vice versa. This ability will not work if it is Dracron targetting you.Taitheproficient:
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You are Taitheproficient. Once you find yourself attached to a theory, you find it difficult to shake. You get 2 votes, but you lose a vote each time you unvote (you cannot go into negative votes). You vote total is reset to 2 each night.Alex-chan:
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You are Alex-chan. You have a large and slightly worrying obsession with hammers. Once per game, during the day phase, you can activate your ability via pm. You will run up to the player who has the most votes and smash their head in with a hammer. The day cannot end until at least 24 hours after this has happened.Dracron:
By the way, this just happened by chance, but it is kind of funny, Alex-chan~!
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You are Dracron. The similarity of name with Drakonian confuses other players. All night actions aimed for you will instead go to him, providing he's alive, and vice versa. This ability will not work if it is Drakonian targetting you.JanetFourEyes:
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You are JanetFourEyes. Quiet and analytical, you are perfectly placed to protect someone each night. You can send me the name of the person you want to protect, and you will go to their house and convince a would be killer of that person that killing the player they were aiming for is a bad idea. That player will hang around their house instead, however, and find out the protected players role.Jetpigeon:
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As a new and inexperienced player, the other players do not take you very seriously. This means complacency, however, and after dark you will receive a list of all the roles who voted for you yesterday (though not who has which). This ability will not work if you were lynched.ChAoTiCjIm:
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You are ChAoTiCjIm. Lurkers. Lurkers! LURKERS! You hate them with a passion. You may strangle someone each night, but only if they've made 2 or fewer posts in the previous day.Mrs.Human:
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Man, the stress of lylo is just too much for you! However, you've been taking assertiveness classes, and you think you can handle it now. Unfortunately, this newfound assertiveness means that you cannot unvote during lylo.Arg:
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You are Arg. You are often vague and unhelpful. Every night you may pm me somebody's name. You will then something something them.Note: Arg is in fact a Secret Watcher, capable of determining who visits someone's room every night.
Cobrarsenic:
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You are Cobrarsenic. Man, that went badly. Really badly. That day may have cost your side the game. However, you have an ace up your sleeve - when you are lynched, the day will reset back to its start, exactly how it was before. All actions done that day will be reset, as will all votes, and a new deadline will be set for the end of the day. This ability activates before you or any other evening kills roleflip, and it can only activateMethilestesas:seven timesonce.
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As a respected player, you are a magnet for Night Actions, from both a suspicious town and a worried mafia. Once per game, during the night phase, you may activate your ability. All night actions performed that night will happen to you instead of to their original targets.Leafslug:
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As game mod you get two known roles rather than one. It is up to you whether to tell everyone both of them or not.Fixed.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 18, 2009, 04:37:16 pm
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 18, 2009, 04:38:24 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 18, 2009, 04:41:02 pm
Okay. Sweet.
/in
Post by: ToonyMan on September 18, 2009, 04:41:51 pm
Post by: Zai on September 18, 2009, 04:44:25 pm
Question: Will the powers in this game be more like those in Vote Mafia or those in regular Mafia (Cop, Doctor, etc.)?
Post by: Mephansteras on September 18, 2009, 04:57:16 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 18, 2009, 05:17:56 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on September 18, 2009, 05:27:08 pm
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I'm a... snake now?Kept trying to think of something for your name, but couldn't think of another poison, so I changed the animal at the start.
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Question: Will the powers in this game be more like those in Vote Mafia or those in regular Mafia (Cop, Doctor, etc.)?They will be based, to a very loose extent, upon character traits and playing styles. Or possibly arbitrarily based on a single event in one game. There will be some roles that are roughly similar to traditional ones, and some that are rather different.
Also, bear in mind that you do not have to be a role to join, and you will not be forced to join if you are a role. Sorry for not making that one clear :P.
Post by: Org on September 18, 2009, 05:28:44 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on September 18, 2009, 05:29:52 pm
InI thought you were banned from computers?
Post by: Org on September 18, 2009, 05:30:23 pm
Yeah, I think Ill have some slack as its a break!InI thought you were banned from computers?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 18, 2009, 05:30:45 pm
InI thought you were banned from computers?
Only when he is.
Post by: Frelock on September 18, 2009, 05:35:06 pm
Post by: Archangel on September 18, 2009, 05:59:44 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 18, 2009, 06:01:34 pm
I'll give this a go too, what with Toon Mafia still being locked and me being dead anyway.
PEOPLE NEED TO SEND IN THEIR NIGHT ACTION GAWD
not you though
Post by: Archangel on September 18, 2009, 06:06:04 pm
PM them a reminder then.I'll give this a go too, what with Toon Mafia still being locked and me being dead anyway.
PEOPLE NEED TO SEND IN THEIR NIGHT ACTION GAWD
not you though
Post by: ToonyMan on September 18, 2009, 06:09:51 pm
Post by: Archangel on September 18, 2009, 06:10:25 pm
Post by: Diakron on September 18, 2009, 07:19:45 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on September 18, 2009, 08:59:16 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 18, 2009, 09:47:22 pm
Post by: dakarian on September 19, 2009, 01:48:20 am
Though why am I afraid of what Draconian's role will be. "Kills the day with a WOT."
In any case. In.
Post by: Leafsnail on September 19, 2009, 04:36:40 am
Oh, and I'm throwing open the floor to wild speculation as to what each role will do.
Post by: Archangel on September 19, 2009, 04:41:12 am
Post by: ToonyMan on September 19, 2009, 11:15:12 am
Post by: webadict on September 19, 2009, 12:53:32 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on September 19, 2009, 02:55:15 pm
Post by: tehstefan on September 19, 2009, 06:16:09 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 19, 2009, 06:16:58 pm
How complicated will this be? I'm newer to the game, and wouldn't want to bog it down if it was really complex.
Oh, I advice you don't play this game if you want to start off simple.
Post by: Mr.Person on September 19, 2009, 06:18:45 pm
How complicated will this be? I'm newer to the game, and wouldn't want to bog it down if it was really complex.
Here's a simple game.
Down here is this game.
Post by: dakarian on September 19, 2009, 06:44:03 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on September 19, 2009, 06:44:21 pm
Post by: Diakron on September 19, 2009, 07:08:51 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 19, 2009, 07:10:47 pm
guess i am Dracron wonder what i'll do.. (i guess after day 1 is over i get lynched by loonyman)
Hey! You were scum once!
Post by: Diakron on September 19, 2009, 07:26:05 pm
Post by: Alexhans on September 19, 2009, 10:26:24 pm
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D
You could've gone for LensFail...
Argh > Arg
Who's Jetpigeon?
last but not least...
Alex-chan??? Seriously? That's the best you got?
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I'll spectate this too
Post by: Diakron on September 19, 2009, 11:25:10 pm
-chan is a japanese endearment
Post by: Leafsnail on September 20, 2009, 06:26:14 am
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LensFailYou're right, that would be better.
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Argh > ArgYeah, I was thinking of that, but Arg makes the original connection more obvious :P.
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JetpigeonJetsquirrel. The list is not necessarily based on experience or skill.
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Alex-chan???Sorry. If it makes you feel any better, Mr.Person and Janus also got gender flipped. I had just been thinking about the terms and how hans is just a couple of letters off, and I couldn't quite resist :P. So I guess you're young or some kind of cute animal in this game.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on September 20, 2009, 03:57:59 pm
Post by: brothernature on September 21, 2009, 12:24:59 am
Post by: Boksi on September 21, 2009, 11:34:16 am
Post by: Leafsnail on September 21, 2009, 11:49:03 am
One more signup needed, then I can start the game (already got pms prepared). Anyone want to go?
Post by: Alexhans on September 21, 2009, 12:00:07 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on September 21, 2009, 12:04:29 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on September 21, 2009, 02:09:21 pm
You will need to find the escaped Cyberscum before they kill you all! The Hotel must vanquish the scumteam before they are beaten!
A storm is brewing outside, and it is clear that escape is impossible. Methilestesas explained this to you yesterday - the computer has control over the area. If someone tries to leave, they'll trip over. Or their car will break down. Or they will suddenly feel guilt and be forced to run back to the hotel.
As you hear a terrible howl outside, you realise that the computer has full control over the Hotel.
Player list:
ToonyMan
chaoticjosh
Pandarsenic
Zaithemaster
Mephansteras
Archangel
Diakron
Mr.Person
Cheeetar
dakarian
webadict
RedWarrior0
brothernature
Boksi
Alexhans
The day will end in roughly 72 hours. Most day phases in this game will last approximately 3 week days.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 21, 2009, 02:11:17 pm
HOW ARE YOU TODAY???!!!
Post by: ToonyMan on September 21, 2009, 02:14:05 pm
I vote brothernature for now.
FAKE-EDIT:
@Pandarsenic:
I see what's happening.
Post by: Frelock on September 21, 2009, 02:16:14 pm
Aaand, that would appear to be because I'm not on the list. Darn. I thought this meant "I'll sign up:"
Well, I'm willing to try this out.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 21, 2009, 02:17:43 pm
FRELOCK: WHAT DO YOU MEAN "YET"?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 21, 2009, 02:18:22 pm
Ah well, I guess Pandarsenic gets to insta-kill Sir Josh or something. >_>
Post by: Leafsnail on September 21, 2009, 02:20:53 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on September 21, 2009, 02:22:33 pm
Yo yo yo, Alexhans, wat up, G?
Post by: webadict on September 21, 2009, 02:24:01 pm
I think this is punishment for being me.
Post by: Mephansteras on September 21, 2009, 02:27:26 pm
Huh...don't lurk, I guess!
So, Boksi, what have you been up to lately?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 21, 2009, 02:29:20 pm
I know of... nothing. Because I have a dreaded role. Apparently as punishment for having a terrible role, I am forced to try to convince everyone that I known of no role...
I think this is punishment for being me.
Makes as much sense as anything.
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 21, 2009, 02:32:01 pm
Post by: Alexhans on September 21, 2009, 02:33:29 pm
Ummm, I haven't gotten my role yet...You can be up for replacement in case someone goes AWOL.
Aaand, that would appear to be because I'm not on the list. Darn. I thought this meant "I'll sign up:"Well, I'm willing to try this out.
TOONY: SO I GUESS WE HAVE HIDDEN VOTING ROLESNo, dude. Look what it says... He will know wich role voted him.
FRELOCK: WHAT DO YOU MEAN "YET"?
I know about Dracron. Because they're so similar, all night actions going to Drakonian go to Dracron and vice versa. Does not effect Drakonian if he's doing the action or if one of the 2 is dead. Identical twins, in other words.Do you really think that random voting me is your best course of action?
Yo yo yo, Alexhans, wat up, G?
Vote Boksi. I know you're around. Come and post.
I see people posting the role information they have been given...
Do you guys think that is the best course of action? Should we MC the role info we've got just like that? Shouldn't we handle it with a bit more caution and let everybody chip in before we make such a desition?
If we MC role info It's very probable that we'll end up pushing for a full MC wich might or might not be advisable.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 21, 2009, 02:35:41 pm
Post by: Alexhans on September 21, 2009, 02:36:04 pm
@everyone: What role that has been mentioned already do you think would suit more scum? What role do you think would suit more town?
Post by: Leafsnail on September 21, 2009, 02:36:43 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 21, 2009, 02:38:06 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on September 21, 2009, 02:40:15 pm
How many mafia members are there, do we get to find that out? Let's just say that there are n mafia members. The mafia knows of 2n roles in the game, while each townsperson knows just 2. Since the mafia knows more than the town, the best thing to do is to just tell everybody everything so the town at least knows as much as the mafia does.
FAKEEDIT @ ToonyMan: Good, you learned your lesson. Remember Vote Mafia 2? Yeah, you better.
Post by: webadict on September 21, 2009, 02:57:09 pm
...I figured I'd say it, because I was debating putting something like that in Vote Mafia, but couldn't think of a real reason for it to fit.
Post by: Alexhans on September 21, 2009, 03:09:04 pm
True, but what if there's a role that kills you for saying your role?you risk it. You're starting to worry me... First you have no extra info now you say that there might be a role specially made to kill you if you reveal it... Where's the bold Webadict I know?
...I figured I'd say it, because I was debating putting something like that in Vote Mafia, but couldn't think of a real reason for it to fit.
Post by: Boksi on September 21, 2009, 03:12:23 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on September 21, 2009, 03:20:17 pm
'Ey, I'm here. I'd rather not roleclaim though, since my power is only useful if it's unknown.
Well yes, we're only claiming the second role we know about.
Post by: Alexhans on September 21, 2009, 03:20:30 pm
'Ey, I'm here. I'd rather not roleclaim though, since my power is only useful if it's unknown.Who said you should claim? What about the other role info? Do you have one? (dont say it, just say if you do). Anything else you'd like to add?
those @everyone tags can be answered by everyone, you know?
And you're leading in the scoreboard... it might be good to give some opinions about stuff.
Post by: Boksi on September 21, 2009, 03:50:25 pm
He has a great, uh, love of hammers. Once per game, during the day phase, by sending a PM he can smash in the face of the person that has garnered the most votes with a hammer.
Post by: Diakron on September 21, 2009, 04:51:53 pm
Archangel are you going to join us?
Post by: Zai on September 21, 2009, 05:06:25 pm
I see people posting the role information they have been given...
Do you guys think that is the best course of action? Should we MC the role info we've got just like that? Shouldn't we handle it with a bit more caution and let everybody chip in before we make such a desition?
It's what we've done in the past several Mafias with the you-know-one-role-besides-your-own rule (the 3 Vote Mafias and the first Weirdo Mafia). It's giving the town as much information on what the roles are as the scum. The scum will still know more of who is who, of course (they'll know each other's roles). But still.
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If we MC role info It's very probable that we'll end up pushing for a full MC wich might or might not be advisable.
This only happens when there's easy evidence as to who is who (such as the vote counts in Vote Mafia (all the roles could be traced through their votes)), and there's only a few people left with unknown roles. We didn't get to this point (everyone claiming) in Weirdo Mafia because the roles weren't as easily traceable. So I don't think you should worry too much about a massclaim happening.
That Jetpigeon role sounds quite useful for both town and scum. Whoever has that needs to not get killed.
I know of Mrs.Human. This person cannot unvote in lylo.
It's a really specific role, and a pretty bad one at that.
But okay. I randomly vote dakarian.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 21, 2009, 05:14:27 pm
His name is very similar to Dracron, and this confuses people. All night actions targeted at him will hit Dracron, if he is alive, and vice versa.
Post by: webadict on September 21, 2009, 05:36:41 pm
I'm here. I'm just saying that because it's possible. Would you rather that no one brings up any other possibilities?True, but what if there's a role that kills you for saying your role?you risk it. You're starting to worry me... First you have no extra info now you say that there might be a role specially made to kill you if you reveal it... Where's the bold Webadict I know?
...I figured I'd say it, because I was debating putting something like that in Vote Mafia, but couldn't think of a real reason for it to fit.
...Hm.
Post by: brothernature on September 21, 2009, 07:32:39 pm
Post by: Diakron on September 21, 2009, 07:59:00 pm
Vote: webadict for his avatar being...What ever the hell it is.
dude are you blind?? thats a penguin ... (insert term against BN's intelligence level)
Post by: RedWarrior0 on September 21, 2009, 07:59:46 pm
Post by: Diakron on September 21, 2009, 08:28:38 pm
I know of Arg, who is vague. In fact, his night action is just as vague. He PMs a name, then he will do something to them.
wonder if there is a limit to what he can do...
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 21, 2009, 08:34:32 pm
I know of JanetFourEyes, who can go to someone's house each night and convince anyone aiming to kill him to instead inspect him.
Hey Cheeetar, if you were JanetFourEyes, who would you protect, given the current information?
Hey Redwarrior, can you ask some questions about that role? The vagueness is probably intended, but try to glean what you can off Leafsnail.
Post by: brothernature on September 21, 2009, 08:49:05 pm
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dude are you blind?? thats a penguin ... (insert term against BN's intelligence level)Ah. Thanks for clearing it up. The wizard hat and scar and potion and wand kinda through me off....
Post by: Cheeetar on September 22, 2009, 12:13:18 am
Hey everyone, especially Cheeetar.I'd probably inspect Zaithemaster. People who say 'I will randomly vote' always seem suspicious to me, as if they're only going along with the crowd to avoid suspicion.
I know of JanetFourEyes, who can go to someone's house each night and convince anyone aiming to kill him to instead inspect him.
Hey Cheeetar, if you were JanetFourEyes, who would you protect, given the current information?
Hey Redwarrior, can you ask some questions about that role? The vagueness is probably intended, but try to glean what you can off Leafsnail.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 22, 2009, 12:14:19 am
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 22, 2009, 12:27:00 am
Post by: Archangel on September 22, 2009, 01:38:38 am
I don't think Dakarian has spoken yet.
Post by: webadict on September 22, 2009, 02:16:32 am
I know of Bookadict. He knows the roles of all the players in the game.I am SO COOL!
I don't think Dakarian has spoken yet.
...I see now. Don't you think, booky? Is that why you didn't want to? But, that doesn't help us. It might also be a scum role and we're giving them information now. Coooooooooool.
But, that only doesn't make sense with everything...
Post by: dakarian on September 22, 2009, 03:17:20 am
Webadict your talk of being a 'dreaded role' sounds akward, especially since it means you aren't giving out the second role you were given. The rest of your posts confuse the mess out of me.
I've had times where I thought "you must have a reason but I don't see it". This isn't one of those times. You're just confusing. I don't like it. I also don't like that you aren't random voting. Basically, you aren't being helpful, you aren't scumhunting, and you aren't truth finding.
So, mind start doing one of the three?
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 22, 2009, 03:58:40 am
Hey everyone, especially Cheeetar.I'd probably inspect Zaithemaster. People who say 'I will randomly vote' always seem suspicious to me, as if they're only going along with the crowd to avoid suspicion.
I know of JanetFourEyes, who can go to someone's house each night and convince anyone aiming to kill him to instead inspect him.
Hey Cheeetar, if you were JanetFourEyes, who would you protect, given the current information?
Hey Redwarrior, can you ask some questions about that role? The vagueness is probably intended, but try to glean what you can off Leafsnail.
Wait, that's not what I asked. You misunderstood, the Janet role doesn't inspect, it protects. It forces whomever attacks into inspecting their role instead of attacking. That's the way I understand it, atleast.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 22, 2009, 03:59:34 am
I KNOW HIS ROLE - HE'S ARCHCHERUB, AND HE HAS TO CONVINCE EVERYONE HE DOESN'T KNOW A ROLE!!!
Post by: dakarian on September 22, 2009, 04:47:30 am
However, you don't need a role to scumhunt. I know he can scumhunt, role or no role. He's not scumhunting now.
Btw, Panda, does web's role make him less or more scum?
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 22, 2009, 06:18:03 am
HE SEEMS OVERCAUTIOUS FOR ANY SORT OF WEBADDICTION!!! THIS ISN'T LIKE HIM AT ALL!!! EVEN WITH SUCH A ROLE, HE WOULDN'T CHOOSE TO BE THIS TIMID!!! IT ISN'T LIKE HIM!!!
WEBBYFACE, WHAT'S THE DEAL???!!!
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 22, 2009, 06:42:02 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 22, 2009, 07:02:02 am
Alright, before I do anything else, is it just that you have a role that forces you to type in all caps Pandar? Am I missing something?
NO!!! I'M JUST ENJOYING DOING THIS FOR FUN!!! :D
Post by: Cheeetar on September 22, 2009, 07:17:25 am
Hey everyone, especially Cheeetar.I'd probably inspect Zaithemaster. People who say 'I will randomly vote' always seem suspicious to me, as if they're only going along with the crowd to avoid suspicion.
I know of JanetFourEyes, who can go to someone's house each night and convince anyone aiming to kill him to instead inspect him.
Hey Cheeetar, if you were JanetFourEyes, who would you protect, given the current information?
Hey Redwarrior, can you ask some questions about that role? The vagueness is probably intended, but try to glean what you can off Leafsnail.
Wait, that's not what I asked. You misunderstood, the Janet role doesn't inspect, it protects. It forces whomever attacks into inspecting their role instead of attacking. That's the way I understand it, atleast.
Sorry Josh, I was confuse. If I could use this ability on myself, I would do so. If not, I would use it on Pandarsenic. I can easily see someone gunning for him because he could be faking a role, but I would prefer he be investigated first.
Post by: Alexhans on September 22, 2009, 08:24:54 am
Also, can we get a votecount. Please?
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Hey Cheeetar, if you were JanetFourEyes, who would you protect, given the current information?josh... outguessing a protection is NOT cool. That's NOT scumhunting. Totally anti-town.
Ok... Everyone needs to claim their extra role info. Who hasn't done yet? I've got my reasons to go last so I will wait for everyone to do before me.
The extra role and who gave the info away.
Spoiler: "Jetpigeon (Toony)" (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: "Mr.Person (Dracron)" (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: "ChAoTiCjIm (Meph)" (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: "Alex-chan (Boksi)" (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: "Methilestesas (Diakron)" (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: "Drakonian (Cheetar)" (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: "Arg (redwarrior)" (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: "JanetFourEyes (Josh)" (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: "Bookadict (Archangel)" (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: "ARCHCHERUB (Pandar)" (click to show/hide)
@Pandar... anything else you can tell us about Archerub? Also... please don't tell me you have a CAPS post restriction. mmm... I guess not or you aren't allowed to tell us. It's annoying, man. I read CAPS like very loud talk or shouting. It hurts my ears. If you can. Stop it. If you can't... Mod... Damn you.
@Web. At this point. You might better claim if you are Archerub or not.
Mod... something I don't like is the fact that you're allowing quoting pms... that's not very nice for scum. Anyway... given that this is like an open setup (all roles are out in some way or another) I don't get why you only partially give them to us. It seems to be just to drag time.
ToonyMan: Gave out info.
chaoticjosh. Gave out info. Asked Cheetar about doc protection.
Pandarsenic DIDNT give info. All caps. Wonders about web's mildness.
Zaithemaster Gave out info.
Mephansteras Gave out info.
Archangel Gave out info.
Diakron Gave out info.
Mr.Person Gave out info.
Cheeetar Gave out info.
dakarian DIDNT give info
webadict Claims to have no info.
RedWarrior0 Gave out info.
brothernature DIDNT give info
Boksi Gave out info.
Alexhans DIDNT give info yet.
Its ironic that Archangel votes someone who didn't speak yet in his first post... and then he never speaks again.
RedWarrior0, Archangel have posted only once and to add nothing other than their role info. People in general are doing the same thing as always... Hang around and wait for active people to fight each other.
Pandarsenic, dakarian, brothernature NEED TO GIVE OUT THEIR EXTRA ROLE INFO.
if someone can be a good lad and assemble an unofficial votecount I would be glad.
Post by: webadict on September 22, 2009, 08:56:53 am
I had a feeling about that. The whole 'can't say anything' was just enough to shine a spotlight, nothing more.Well, mostly because I was busy. I've had things to do and I had a lot more time in this one since it just started. And I don't have to random vote this time!
However, you don't need a role to scumhunt. I know he can scumhunt, role or no role. He's not scumhunting now.
Btw, Panda, does web's role make him less or more scum?
Seemed a liiiittle too obvious.
You don't normally ask people about things, silly goose! MC's don't come out of nowhere. And the funny thing is that you want me to claim.Ummm, I haven't gotten my role yet...You can be up for replacement in case someone goes AWOL.
Aaand, that would appear to be because I'm not on the list. Darn. I thought this meant "I'll sign up:"Well, I'm willing to try this out.TOONY: SO I GUESS WE HAVE HIDDEN VOTING ROLESNo, dude. Look what it says... He will know wich role voted him.
FRELOCK: WHAT DO YOU MEAN "YET"?I know about Dracron. Because they're so similar, all night actions going to Drakonian go to Dracron and vice versa. Does not effect Drakonian if he's doing the action or if one of the 2 is dead. Identical twins, in other words.Do you really think that random voting me is your best course of action?
Yo yo yo, Alexhans, wat up, G?
Vote Boksi. I know you're around. Come and post.
I see people posting the role information they have been given...
Do you guys think that is the best course of action? Should we MC the role info we've got just like that? Shouldn't we handle it with a bit more caution and let everybody chip in before we make such a desition?
If we MC role info It's very probable that we'll end up pushing for a full MC wich might or might not be advisable.
MOD: Can any role be town or scum or they are balanced according what each one of them does?You're going on about me when you haven't even claimed any info? Yeah, go figure. Let's cast suspicion on him and what-not. What possible reason could you have to go last...? Also, don't rolefish.
Also, can we get a votecount. Please?QuoteHey Cheeetar, if you were JanetFourEyes, who would you protect, given the current information?josh... outguessing a protection is NOT cool. That's NOT scumhunting. Totally anti-town.
Ok... Everyone needs to claim their extra role info. Who hasn't done yet? I've got my reasons to go last so I will wait for everyone to do before me.
The extra role and who gave the info away.Spoiler: "Jetpigeon (Toony)" (click to show/hide)Spoiler: "Mr.Person (Dracron)" (click to show/hide)Spoiler: "ChAoTiCjIm (Meph)" (click to show/hide)Spoiler: "Alex-chan (Boksi)" (click to show/hide)Spoiler: "Methilestesas (Diakron)" (click to show/hide)Spoiler: "Drakonian (Cheetar)" (click to show/hide)Spoiler: "Arg (redwarrior)" (click to show/hide)Spoiler: "JanetFourEyes (Josh)" (click to show/hide)Spoiler: "Bookadict (Archangel)" (click to show/hide)Spoiler: "ARCHCHERUB (Pandar)" (click to show/hide)
@Pandar... anything else you can tell us about Archerub? Also... please don't tell me you have a CAPS post restriction. mmm... I guess not or you aren't allowed to tell us. It's annoying, man. I read CAPS like very loud talk or shouting. It hurts my ears. If you can. Stop it. If you can't... Mod... Damn you.
@Web. At this point. You might better claim if you are Archerub or not.
Mod... something I don't like is the fact that you're allowing quoting pms... that's not very nice for scum. Anyway... given that this is like an open setup (all roles are out in some way or another) I don't get why you only partially give them to us. It seems to be just to drag time.
ToonyMan: Gave out info.
chaoticjosh. Gave out info. Asked Cheetar about doc protection.
Pandarsenic DIDNT give info. All caps. Wonders about web's mildness.
Zaithemaster Gave out info.
Mephansteras Gave out info.
Archangel Gave out info.
Diakron Gave out info.
Mr.Person Gave out info.
Cheeetar Gave out info.
dakarian DIDNT give info
webadict Claims to have no info.
RedWarrior0 Gave out info.
brothernature DIDNT give info
Boksi Gave out info.
Alexhans DIDNT give info yet.
Its ironic that Archangel votes someone who didn't speak yet in his first post... and then he never speaks again.
RedWarrior0, Archangel have posted only once and to add nothing other than their role info. People in general are doing the same thing as always... Hang around and wait for active people to fight each other.
Pandarsenic, dakarian, brothernature NEED TO GIVE OUT THEIR EXTRA ROLE INFO.
if someone can be a good lad and assemble an unofficial votecount I would be glad.
Alexhans. You just don't seem like you're trying. Well, I mean trying to help town.
Post by: Alexhans on September 22, 2009, 09:24:33 am
Quote from: Webadict
You don't normally ask people about things, silly goose! MC's don't come out of nowhere. And the funny thing is that you want me to claim.What's supposed to mean that I dont ask people about things? I was just wondering about all this claiming the role info we had. After some people claimed their extra info then it's obvious that we need to make everyone else claim so that town has almost the same info as scum.
And I can't not believe you to be that shortsighted. I wouldn't want you to claim if it wasnt for nothing. You claimed a weird ability and Pandar is telling us that it fits with that role.
If you're not that role then someone else should be. I don't see any harm in claiming if you are that role or not. It's not like you have many pro-town abilities.
Also, define "funny". Because that's what people say when they're trying to say something is scummy but they cant back it up. You drop a mild attack out there but dont develop on it and then vote me?
<censored cursing>
Quote from: webadict
You're going on about me when you haven't even claimed any info? Yeah, go figure. Let's cast suspicion on him and what-not. What possible reason could you have to go last...? Also, don't rolefish.See? you say "You're going on about me"...
I didn't particularly go on about you... I just posted the information I had... But you're acting pretty scared.
What possible reason would I have to go last? what's wrong with you?
It's something that will allow me to know if someone is scum or not based on all the "role info" that people give.
If someone claims after me then they can use what I will say to cover themselves. If I claim last. Then we will know where to look.
Dude... Do you know what rolefishing means??? I asked you to CLAIM. that's not rolefishing. That's being upfront. When Pandar backed you up because he thought you were Archwhatever you didn't complain, right?
Quote from: webadict
Alexhans. You just don't seem like you're trying. Well, I mean trying to help town.Lol... And you are? more than me? :D
You quoted my long posts and added brief sentences after them so it would seem as if you have posted something relevant?
I encourage people to read Webadict's posts and then judge for themselves who's not even trying
You didn't do anything (it's ok, you may be excused by time constrains) and are trying to take me out from the get go? Interesting.
I'd rather let more people talk but for now:
BIG BLACK FOS Webadict.
Post by: Mr.Person on September 22, 2009, 11:27:18 am
Before anybody says it, yes, that's insane. I'm going to ignore that feeling. However, it doesn't change the fact that Webadict is not seriously defending himself, so, to see what he says, I'm going to vote Webadict.
Post by: Alexhans on September 22, 2009, 11:35:36 am
Webadict isn't seriously defending himself, Alexhans is dogging him for no reason. I have this strange feeling that Webadict is getting bussed.Can you develop on this "dogging" thing? I don't quite get what you mean...
When someone accuses other people of bussing right away I can only think that they're bussing themselves and hoping to link succesive lynches...
Do you think that Webadict, as scum, would purposely set himself up for a lynch on day 1 to clear his partner/s?
I'd really like a votecount... Are you guys gonna make me do it? :-[
Post by: Leafsnail on September 22, 2009, 11:55:53 am
Oh wait, it's just the computer giving a votecount. The words projected in blood red on the wall read:
Quote
chaoticjosh: PandarsenicNote: Your vote may appear twice if you didn't unvote before revoting. Notify me of any mistakes.
brothernature: ToonyMan
Alexhans: webadict
Boksi: Mephansteras, Alexhans
Archangel: Diakron
dakarian: Zaithemaster, Archangel
webadict: brothernature, dakarian, Mr.Person
Cheeetar: chaoticjosh
Post by: Alexhans on September 22, 2009, 11:58:48 am
My cheerleader team was getting tired :P
Post by: Mr.Person on September 22, 2009, 12:30:14 pm
I brought up that nagging feeling because it exists, but I KNOW it's wrong. I just wanted to let you know that you're not "clear" if Webadict flips up scum.
Post by: Leafsnail on September 22, 2009, 12:34:56 pm
Post by: dakarian on September 22, 2009, 12:57:46 pm
Alex, however, now bothers me. You sound to be very panicy when someone votes for you, even in Random Vote. Meanwhile, you are OMGUSing Web there and accusing him NOW that he's gotten around to actually accusing people.
Lastly, I do NOT buy your "everyone should claim but I'll claim last" argument. You say you have reasons. Well spill it. Why are you pushing at others to give off their role while excusing yourself from doing the same? Why MUCH you stay last. That's information hoarding and it's not pro-town.
No, I didn't state my second roll yet. However, I'm not playing the hypocite pushing people to do what I'm not doing.
If you HAVE to have my claim then spill yours first. After that, explain why you are forcing someone who apperently is all but declaring that their role DEMANDS that they don't talk about their role to CLAIM.
Unvote Vote Alexhans
As for the matter of alignment and role, there is ONE benefit: the roles we have can be used for good or evil. If someone is using their role in such a way that they are actively hurting the town with it then it's scummy.
Post by: Alexhans on September 22, 2009, 02:00:32 pm
Well, web did what I asked. He's back to scumhunting.reaaaally? ::) signal me exactly where is he scumhunting...
Alex, however, now bothers me. You sound to be very panicy when someone votes for you, even in Random Vote. Meanwhile, you are OMGUSing Web there and accusing him NOW that he's gotten around to actually accusing people.Do you think Im OMGUSING webadict? Do you think Im voting him because he votes me??? Do you think so low of me? no. He hasnt been scumhunting and then voted me for crap reasons... It's pretty scummy in my book.
Quote from: dakarian
Lastly, I do NOT buy your "everyone should claim but I'll claim last" argument. You say you have reasons. Well spill it.Dude... If I was a doc... Would you like me to claim? NO! Because it would be a stupid move... Claiming the information I have before someone does first is stupid. But if enough people ask for it then I will. I will not claim it for one or two people who don't know what's good for town.
Quote from: dakarian
Why are you pushing at others to give off their role while excusing yourself from doing the same? Why MUCH you stay last. That's information hoarding and it's not pro-town.lol. You're totally clueless. You're taking <censored> without knowing about it.
Quote from: dakarian
No, I didn't state my second roll yet. However, I'm not playing the hypocite pushing people to do what I'm not doing.No. you're clearly an <censored> for calling me a hypocrite when I clearly stated that I didn't want to give out the info I had before everyone did because it could help find scum.
Quote from: dakarian
If you HAVE to have my claim then spill yours first. After that, explain why you are forcing someone who apperently is all but declaring that their role DEMANDS that they don't talk about their role to CLAIM.Im not understanding a word you say but it's amazing how quickly you jumped from webadict to me after he did absolutely nothing to remove your suspicions.
I'm starting to feel Mr.P might have a point regarding a buss... guesss we'll see in a bit.
Quote from: dakarian
As for the matter of alignment and role, there is ONE benefit: the roles we have can be used for good or evil. If someone is using their role in such a way that they are actively hurting the town with it then it's scummy.and? is someone doing that? Are you saying something useful?
as a matter of fact... Im tired...
unvote, vote webadict
Post by: Mr.Person on September 22, 2009, 02:10:36 pm
Just do whatever Alexhans says, unless you have a good reason not to. What he's asking for now is ok, he just wants to claim his known role last. Is that so unreasonable you have to blow up on him?
Post by: Leafsnail on September 22, 2009, 02:22:02 pm
He grins madly, and turns to address the assembled audience.
"Morning, everyone! It's good to see all of you gathered here!!" he smiles an adorable smile. There's a pause.
"What are you doing?" says Mr.Person, breaking the silence.
"I'm here to deliver democracy, Mr.Person-san!" says Alexhans, still as smiley as ever. "And for that reason, webadict, I must ask you to die!"
"Woah!" says webadict, who is lurking around under a table, "Why should it happen now? The day isn't over yet!"
"Yes, webadict-san!" says Alexhans, still grinning. Hmm, one of his eyes is beginning to change colour. That probably isn't good. "But sometimes democracy can't wait!" Before webadict can react, the small figure runs forwards and begins to attack with a hammer. You hear yells and what sounds like incoherent Japanese, before webadict is finally left in a broken heap under the table.
Hmm, webadict's position all morning has been strange. He has been under the table, and while he has said some stuff, he distinctly seems to be lurking. Add this to the "Advanced Lurking Techniques" book in his pocket, and it would seem that he was ArchCherub!
Quote
You are ArchCherub. Long hated for constant lurking, you now seek to prove 'em all wrong! Unfortunately, the other players are weary of you, and have slapped a penalty on you. You will not get a known role. Good luck convincing the other players that this is the case.
You aren't entirely sure what should happen now. You wait for webadict to transform, or explode, or something, but nothing interesting happens. A quick search of his room reveals nothing untoward, so you work out that he was, in fact, Hotel Aligned.
All votes on webadict are off him, and on "abstain". The day will continue to the previously stated deadline.
Post by: Alexhans on September 22, 2009, 02:27:49 pm
And he will be seriously pissed off...
But that's what you get for being scummy.
Post by: Mr.Person on September 22, 2009, 02:31:52 pm
Post by: Alexhans on September 22, 2009, 02:32:35 pm
I'm actually Alex-Chan... oh... the ironies... And like all town dayvigs I chose to kill early because that allows everyobdy to know that if the dayvig is scum he wont use it in lylo and win.
Make of it what you want.
on hindsight... maybe I should've waited... But webadict's waggon might've gone down and people may have acted like dakarian did so I took a rushed decision.
Lesson for all of you: "Dont make rushed decisions"
Post by: webadict on September 22, 2009, 02:34:18 pm
Post by: Alexhans on September 22, 2009, 02:35:59 pm
Post by: Alexhans on September 22, 2009, 02:37:09 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on September 22, 2009, 02:43:56 pm
Quote
chaoticjosh: Pandarsenic
brothernature: ToonyMan
Alexhans: dakarian
Boksi: Mephansteras
Archangel: Diakron
dakarian: Zaithemaster, Archangel
Cheeetar: chaoticjosh
Post by: Mr.Person on September 22, 2009, 03:11:13 pm
Post by: Diakron on September 22, 2009, 03:17:12 pm
I am LeafSlug As a game mod i have two know roles. i may revel these as i see fit.
Methilestesas(not going to retype his info)
AND
Taitheproficient You get 2 votes, but you lose a vote each time you unvote (you cannot go into negative votes) vote total is reset to 2 each night.
Alexhans: Why did you Hammer WA? Also, if you where scum who would you want as scumbuddies?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 22, 2009, 03:32:29 pm
Unvote.
Vote Alexhans.
Decided to kill Webadict before he could speak?
Also FoS Mr.Person for siding with Alexhans constantly.
I really want to know what my LoonyMan role does. :-/
Post by: Boksi on September 22, 2009, 03:42:33 pm
Alexhans
issue.
I find Mr.Person's extreme support of him very suspicious, too.
Post by: Mr.Person on September 22, 2009, 03:56:56 pm
Post by: Diakron on September 22, 2009, 04:10:39 pm
Post by: Alexhans on September 22, 2009, 04:36:55 pm
Alexhans: Why did you Hammer WA? Also, if you where scum who would you want as scumbuddies?Because I thought he was scum. He wasn't acting like himself. At all. The second question is the stupidest question I've ever heard?
What do you expect to get with it?
I don't care who I get as long as they play decently and talk at night.
Holy hell Alexhans.Seriously? You're as <censored> as you act? I hammered Web because I better use my ability today rather than getting killed at night without using it. Webadict wasn't saying anything... Look at his post. I didn't know he was gonna post and, frankly, I was so pissed at him that I didn't find any other explanation than webadict scum so I hammered before he wasn't any more in the lead votes.
Unvote.
Vote Alexhans.
Decided to kill Webadict before he could speak?
Also FoS Mr.Person for siding with Alexhans constantly.
I'm agreeing with Toony on theARGH!!! <censored> What the <censored> do you agree with??? You haven't said anything and are only jumping on a waggon right now...
Alexhans
issue.
I find Mr.Person's extreme support of him very suspicious, too.
Why are you even voting me? what do you think about anything in the game? Why the <censored> do you just appear, vote and then dissapear again?
Mr.Person supported me and you find him scummy??? <censored>... <censored>... <censored>... Dude... You don't know my allignment and yet you already suspect Mr.Person by linking us?
Oh... what a surprise... I realize that I was voting you... and now there's a nice, fat waggon for scum to jump onto if the town is stupid enough to buy it.
This is the obvious response from all of you who don't really know how to play.
Listen to me before you do the usual <censored> of voting whoever actually plays and later end up losing with a game full of stupid lurkers and flame posters. As town. I HAD to kill someone today. Only scum will hang on to a kill because they might use it to win early and surprise everybody.
This is going to sound terrible, because it is, but I was trying to get Alexhans night killed by the mafia.And that's another reason for me to kill today. I may be able to survive longer if I have no powers. Yeah. It may be selfish but I'd rather not die n1.
gah i dont know if i should vote alexhans or not :(Why would you?
Is everyone seriosly going to stop playing and hop on a stupid mislynch just to find themselves with no info tomorrow because no one scumhunted?
Stop hopping on waggons without playing! Goddammit!
There's people who haven't done shit. No, I'm not gonna censor that. I've ran out of censor labels.
Post by: Diakron on September 22, 2009, 04:42:27 pm
Alexhans: Why did you Hammer WA? Also, if you where scum who would you want as scumbuddies?Because I thought he was scum. He wasn't acting like himself. At all. The second question is the stupidest question I've ever heard?
What do you expect to get with it?
I don't care who I get as long as they play decently and talk at night.
.gah i dont know if i should vote alexhans or not :(Why would you?
Is everyone seriosly going to stop playing and hop on a stupid mislynch just to find themselves with no info tomorrow because no one scumhunted?
Stop hopping on waggons without playing! Goddammit!
There's people who haven't done shit. No, I'm not gonna censor that. I've ran out of censor labels.
i'm serious who do you think is the best scum that are playing...
i think that the hammering was a little uncalled for but you seem to have a reason (kinda.. sorta... maybe...)
i think that archangel is still lurking so will stay voting for him till he sing a little...
Post by: Alexhans on September 22, 2009, 04:47:48 pm
Check his other games for this kind of behaviour.
You'll find it very odd.
Dakarian's sudden flip added to my suspicions... I had a vision of gloriusly lynching web scum and then lynching him... Wich... didn't happen...
Post by: Mr.Person on September 22, 2009, 04:51:38 pm
Post by: Alexhans on September 22, 2009, 04:53:51 pm
Well... Webadict is always a good player but he gets lynched often too. So I don't know if we are the best scuteam...
chaoticjosh... He would be a good partner.
Pandarsenic... ditto.
Mr.Person... He know's his way around mafia. Yes.
Zaithemaster... I don't quite remember his playstyle but yess.
Mephansteras.. ditto.
As long as they play:
FireWarrior0
brothernature
Boksi
ToonyMan
dakarian
Cheeetar
Diakron
No (bad experiences):
Archangel
----------
So, now, what do you get from it?
Post by: Alexhans on September 22, 2009, 05:00:32 pm
While I find it odd that Alexhans is freaking out, he's right. Hrumph. Where's the rest of the town?I always freak out when I see stupid town waggoning (in incredibly short posts) me without even trying to put themselves in my shoes an think what town motives could I possibly have for acting like I did...
waggoning someone who's in the spotlight without saying anything is one of the scummiest things a person can do. It's called opportunism. Yet, here in b12 the constantly ignore that fact. People need to explain and debate their reasons for a vote. Not just hop and keep on lurking.
also, I forgot to mention that my extra role info is Leafslug:
Quote
As game mod you get two known roles rather than one. It is up to you whether to tell everyone both of them or not.
If everybody claimed just 1 role that would mean that they were lying about the info they possesed. Hence, scum.
Now you get it, Archerub-webadict? What was your problem with claiming what you were? It would've appeased me, for sure. But you said I was "rolefishing"... urgh...
Post by: ToonyMan on September 22, 2009, 05:12:37 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Mr.Person on September 22, 2009, 05:17:58 pm
FAKEDIT: Eh, I have avatars and shit I don't like, but I'm not going to rage about it or anything.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 22, 2009, 05:28:15 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on September 22, 2009, 05:42:08 pm
Everyone! Stop, drop, and vote for Pandarsenic. Three reasons: He lied about the Archcherub role. He was typing in all caps for absolutely no reason. He is now lurking.
Really? And how do you know he was typing in all caps for no reason? Hell, even if he was, how does that make him scummy? How did he lie about the Archcherub role? He said Webadict had to convince everyone he knows of no roles, and Webadict didn't.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 22, 2009, 05:55:54 pm
Now, to continue to other things, I clearly was not lying about ArchCherub role and you can see that so what are you talking about?
I was talking in all caps and ending my sentences with "!!!"s for the fun of it, but I'll stop now. I don't see how my typing habit is scummy though. So....
Post by: RedWarrior0 on September 22, 2009, 07:00:48 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 22, 2009, 07:06:14 pm
Josh is scum. I know it.
I'll be Alexhans for once and ask, "Why?"
Post by: RedWarrior0 on September 22, 2009, 07:17:08 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 22, 2009, 07:28:14 pm
FoS Pandarsenic for trying to cause chaos.
Post by: Zai on September 22, 2009, 07:54:05 pm
FoS M.P for suggesting that we should just go along with and trust Alexhans that web was bad. I got the sense that there was an implied "What is wrong with you people?" which, by the way, is a bad thing. We shouldn't just go with people. You were essentially saying "bandwagon w/ me buddy, gaiz!"
I didn't like the webadict and Alexhans fight. It just felt staged. I thought they might have been bussing each other, though I know they both know a lot better than to do that this early. And then Alex goes and hammer-kills web, who turns up town... So they weren't staging it, at least. I can see how Alex could be so certain that web was town that he just wanted him dead now, especially with him saying he was tired; I myself tend to be more rash and more aggressive late at night when I'm most tired. Seeing as I can empathize somewhat with his situation (if he's townie), I'll just lightly FoS Alexhans for now.
Everyone! Stop, drop, and vote for Pandarsenic. Three reasons: He lied about the Archcherub role. He was typing in all caps for absolutely no reason. He is now lurking.
...What? Please tell me this was just meant for response-fishing, and you didn't actually mean that. ALL CAPS isn't a reason to vote for someone (other than being annoyed by them), as it's not exactly a scummy thing. The game's been going for about a day now. Pandar's been posting pretty regularly, so he's not really lurking so much as sleeping or working (he claims sleep), which most people have to do. And I'm not really sure I caught that lying you claimed he did. Care to explain?
For now, FoS Cheeetar.
[Pre-Post Edit:] And after writing all this and copying my post to make sure I don't lose it to the process not going through again, I remembered that I had copied my previous post that hadn't gone through before exiting. So I really could have just pasted it back in here, meaning I didn't need to rewrite the first part of this post... =/
Post by: Diakron on September 22, 2009, 09:26:10 pm
Josh is scum. I know it.
I just have this feeling. Random.org never lies!
... are you really trying to say that you have yet to advance past the RVS? Hey RedWarrior0? i know this game called mafia and your welcomed to play it if you want.
So far the only person who has acted scummy is Pandarsenic but i cant really say i would vote him for typing oddly.
Meanwhile... WHERE ARE YOU ARCHANGEL???? I voted you yesterday and still nothing from you... are you Taitheproficient? i have this sneaking suspicion that you are and dont want to get involved with the RVS so you started lurking.
Post by: Mr.Person on September 22, 2009, 09:37:56 pm
Josh is scum. I know it.I just have this feeling. Random.org never lies!
... are you really trying to say that you have yet to advance past the RVS? Hey RedWarrior0? i know this game called mafia and your welcomed to play it if you want.
So far the only person who has acted scummy is Pandarsenic but i cant really say i would vote him for typing oddly.
Meanwhile... WHERE ARE YOU ARCHANGEL???? I voted you yesterday and still nothing from you... are you Taitheproficient? i have this sneaking suspicion that you are and dont want to get involved with the RVS so you started lurking.
You do know it's still day 1 and random voting is still ok, right?
Post by: brothernature on September 22, 2009, 09:40:24 pm
Edit: Scratch that. I just noticed my Xbox...Make that an hour or two....
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 22, 2009, 10:17:35 pm
Either you or Pandarsenic is LoonyMan. I'm guessing Pandarsenic isn't LoonyMan and is trying to throw us off. Not liking.Trying to cause chaos?
FoS Pandarsenic for trying to cause chaos.
Random silliness and enjoying a likely-broken setup is not causing chaos, good sah.
Post by: dakarian on September 23, 2009, 12:56:05 am
Your being extremely jumpy when there's a spotlight on you. You went after Web AFTER he voted on you (that's why I said you OMGUSed. He started scumhunting by focusing on YOU). Now you've killed a townie all to save your own hide.
Want to hear something funny? When I read you, I don't read scum, not for what you've done now. You read more like how I was in Beginner 1 Day 2 when I, as town, handily gave the scum the victory by striking HARD on the doc and clearing the mafia.
The point. CALM DOWN! Panic is just what the enemy wants us to be. All it'll do is get us to kill townies. The mafia won't look THAT obvious. They'll be more hidden, willing to show us the faults we have so that we can jump on shadows.
So calm down, please. For the sake of us all.
UNVOTE
Now, here's the role that I know about:
Loonyman:
You love getting into arguments. A lot. If you are lynched and your vote is on one of the people voting for you, that person is lynched with you. Because double lynches are, like, the way forwards.
Deep analysis coming after I get some rest. For now, let's NOT kill randomly, ok?
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 23, 2009, 01:05:29 am
What an abominable mess. Alex is jittery, and I can't say I blame him, but I can't say for sure whether he's scummy or not. It's really hard to tell with Alex, his posts are very hard to read for me. He goes out of his way to address point after point after point, but he jumps from train of thought to train of thought so quickly that it outcompetes my mental processes. This isn't a problem exclusively with this game, but alot of other games I've been in with him as well. Take note, that this is something he does when both town and scum IIRC, but it's not very often you see him lose his cool.
Damn you guys post alot...I go to sleep and wake up the next morning, and there's already three new pages. I'll read up and make another post in a bit.
Edit: Scratch that. I just noticed my Xbox...Make that an hour or two....
Oh no, please do spare us a moment of your time Brothernature. I won't be the only one that appreciates it.
I might get some flak for this, but Pandar doesn't seem that scummy to me. He seems to be himself, but his laidback approach is bothersome though. Pandar, from the day's events, please list your top 3 scum picks.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 23, 2009, 01:08:41 am
The caps thing is refuge in audacity.Everyone! Stop, drop, and vote for Pandarsenic. Three reasons: He lied about the Archcherub role. He was typing in all caps for absolutely no reason. He is now lurking.
Really? And how do you know he was typing in all caps for no reason? Hell, even if he was, how does that make him scummy? How did he lie about the Archcherub role? He said Webadict had to convince everyone he knows of no roles, and Webadict didn't.
He lied about the Archcherub role because
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I said he was lurking because of the amount of posts that had gone by since he posted.
If by "lurking" you mean "Sleeping," yes, I was. Also, I've made this clear, I've just moved into my dorm and I'm spending time with new people I'm meeting so I'm going to be on less.I didn't know that. I said you were lurking simply because of the amount of posts that had gone by since you had posted.
Now, to continue to other things, I clearly was not lying about ArchCherub role and you can see that so what are you talking about?
I was talking in all caps and ending my sentences with "!!!"s for the fun of it, but I'll stop now. I don't see how my typing habit is scummy though. So....
You were wrong about the Archcherub role. See above. I don't see how typing in caps and ending things with lots of exclamation points would be a normal thing. It seems to me something you can do so people assume your role requires you to do it, or so you can say '
Post by: Archangel on September 23, 2009, 02:38:18 am
I shall unvote for now, as Dakarian has posted and doesn't seem suspicious to me. I haven't noticed anything particularly scummy, but I'm not at my best right now, still a bit tired.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 23, 2009, 05:09:46 am
Webadict would have to convince us he has no role or he would be executed for refusing to give us info.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 23, 2009, 05:54:59 am
Cheeetar, if people were only voting me because I was voting in all caps, I'd say so. If they're voting for me for any other reason (i.e. how you aren't) they can mention it.Just because you say you would do something, it does not mean you would of. For the second thing: I don't get it. Why not just say 'I know of Archcherub, he knows no role' instead of saying 'I know of Archcherub, he has to convince us he knows no role'? The second seems to infer he does know a role but has to convince us that he dosen't.
Webadict would have to convince us he has no role or he would be executed for refusing to give us info.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2009, 05:56:57 am
Either you or Pandarsenic is LoonyMan. I'm guessing Pandarsenic isn't LoonyMan and is trying to throw us off. Not liking.Trying to cause chaos?
FoS Pandarsenic for trying to cause chaos.
Random silliness and enjoying a likely-broken setup is not causing chaos, good sah.
This is serious business. >:[
Post by: Archangel on September 23, 2009, 05:58:51 am
Post by: Mr.Person on September 23, 2009, 08:30:47 am
Post by: Alexhans on September 23, 2009, 09:12:00 am
Spoiler: "Off Topic" (click to show/hide)
Everyone! Stop, drop, and vote for Pandarsenic. Three reasons: He lied about the Archcherub role. He was typing in all caps for absolutely no reason. He is now lurking.Glad to see you chip in, but:
1) He didn't lie about Archerub.
2) How much "joking around" amounts to being a scumtell?
3) Who do you think is lurking besides pandar?
ok... RedWarrior0 comes after doing nothing just to RVS vote saying it was with random.org?
Quote from: Zai
FoS M.P for suggesting that we should just go along with and trust Alexhans that web was bad.That's not what he said. He said that you should trust me when I said I had a reason for what I did.
Quote from: Zai
I can see how Alex could be so certain that web was town that he just wanted him dead now, especially with him saying he was tired;You meant scum, right? otherwise it makes no sense.
No, man... RVS is over. Enough things have happened for us to start discussing (Including my fight with Web and dakarian and the subsequent "hammer" daykill)... are you really trying to say that you have yet to advance past the RVS? Hey RedWarrior0? i know this game called mafia and your welcomed to play it if you want.You do know it's still day 1 and random voting is still ok, right?
I didn't panic. I was REALLY pissed because he made no sense at all. Webadict hadn't posted practically anything and he came out and told me I wasn't even trying when I always try to give my best? It didn't felt rigth. I felt I was being framed in a joint attack.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It wasn't a random kill. I was pretty certain at the time.
As time passes by. I know I made a huge mistake. But all I have left is to live with it and try to avoid more mess ups.
--------------------------------
I'd vouch for lynching one of the non-players...
Archangel isn't playing (he's been on a trip).
RedWarrior thinks he is still in the RVS and is not playing.
Boksi hopped on a waggon with no reasons and is not playing.
brothernature. Nothing other than fluff.
Meph. Surprisingly he has yet to post something other than his RVS vote.
I'm gonna end up voting one of them today but I rather given them a chance to speak their minds...
Post by: Cheeetar on September 23, 2009, 09:20:05 am
Post by: Leafsnail on September 23, 2009, 09:34:18 am
Quote from: ARGHGETOUTTAMYHEAD
chaoticjosh: Pandarsenic, RedWarrior0
Alexhans: ToonyMan, Boksi
Boksi: Mephansteras
Archangel: Diakron
dakarian: Zaithemaster
Pandarsenic: Mr.Person, Cheeetar
If you forgot to unvote, you may appear twice. Please notify me of any mistakes (I will check the final lynch total much more carefully).
Post by: Mr.Person on September 23, 2009, 09:43:54 am
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 23, 2009, 09:45:46 am
How? My role is very special you see, I'm Cobrarsenic, and if I'm lynched, then the day resets, negating the effects of anything and everything that has happened during the day, including my own lynch. The day then receives a new deadline. I can only do this once however.
What this means is that, if you lynch me, then Webadict will be revived, and we'll have a confirmed townie!
ChaoticJosh
Vote for me everyone. Then we can determine who to really lynch.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 23, 2009, 10:00:02 am
Post by: Alexhans on September 23, 2009, 11:21:53 am
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 23, 2009, 11:25:30 am
Josh... did you check that with the mod?
Yep, there is no confusion whatsoever. Lynching me will reset the day, and neither me nor WA will be dead.
Post by: dakarian on September 23, 2009, 12:06:05 pm
2. Chaotic, that's what you claim is YOUR role right? That means someone ELSE has knowledge of Cobrarsenic.
Thus, it's a small thing, but can we have the person who 'knows of Cobrarsenic' come forward to confirm that it's how that power works?
It's a good idea if it works. I just want to make sure it works.
Post by: Alexhans on September 23, 2009, 12:09:19 pm
:D I guess web gets a second chance :D (It was all part of a plan to clear him :P)
Spoiler: "being realistic" (click to show/hide)
I'm gonna check later what role info is missing... if someone still needs to give the info please do so.
Post by: Mephansteras on September 23, 2009, 12:11:51 pm
Alex...calm down, man, you're going to give yourself an ulcer or something.
Otherwise, I'm with dakarian that I'd like to be sure of what the Cobrarsenic role does before I'm willing to lynch Josh. If it does what he says, then I'm all for it. Confirmed townies are always a great thing to have.
For now, though, I'm going to keep my vote on Boski, since he showed up briefly and then hasn't been back.
Post by: Alexhans on September 23, 2009, 12:23:19 pm
Alex...calm down, man, you're going to give yourself an ulcer or something.It's funny how you all think that I'm totally exalted...
Actually... what happens is that I've been having a frenzy month (With college, work, selling my place, etc) and I'm really active. Everything's has got to be done RIGHT NOW. That's why I probably look crazy with anxiousness or something... I'm afraid that if I calm down right now I might doze or something...
Anyway... Dont worry about me. Whatever curses I swear one day are rapidly forgotten. But, just in case people don't take it like that, I've censorede almost all my random cursing.
Post by: Mr.Person on September 23, 2009, 12:35:08 pm
Post by: dakarian on September 23, 2009, 12:47:24 pm
Mr. Person
You're over eager of pushing this gamble, even when we can bring about some evidence that helps make it less of a risk for the town.
Post by: Alexhans on September 23, 2009, 12:54:30 pm
Unvote, vote Chaoticjosh and request a day shortening.hey... what's up with the day shortening?
Lot's of people have yet to post content.
Post by: Mr.Person on September 23, 2009, 01:02:55 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on September 23, 2009, 01:14:18 pm
Simple facts here, people, if he's lying scum, he's lynched.
What if he's lying scum and he has a power that makes lynching him a bad idea for the town? Like a deadman bomb that kills two people who voted for him or something? Right now all we have to go off of is the role name of Cobrarsenic. And considering how much Panda loves the Exterminator role in Paranormal...I'm a bit nervous about this too.
Post by: dakarian on September 23, 2009, 01:20:01 pm
Pro: 1 scum dead
Con:
Ruined Day 1 due to far, FAR too little discussion
Two nights of NKs
We can go a VERY long way towards dodging that by the fact that there's one person that can confirm what Cobrarsenic does. That, combined with no one counterclaiming shows that Josh is probably honest. That's not much to ask for.
Now, why are you so rushy for this lynch that you'll shut down the discussion for the majority who have not posted yet AND for the one person that can greatly clear up the mess?
Fakeedit: There IS the Loonyman role. I'm not sure mafia would trade a lynch for a lynch though given town is in the majority.
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 23, 2009, 01:23:10 pm
We all know what's gonna happen: We're going to lynch chaoticjosh. Simple facts here, people, if he's lying scum, he's lynched. If he's scum and his ability is real, we've used it early AND cleared someone AND Alexhans can shoot for scum again. If he's town, again, we've cleared somebody and Alexhans can shoot again. This is win-win, and you've gotten yourself VERY high on my suspiscion list Dakarian.
I understand your reasoning MP, but you kind of ignore Dakarion's point, which is that he wants the most time for the town to discuss, and clear up any ambiguities. Just hurrying things along to their logical conclusion seems counterproductive, and you missed this point, instead just trying to flip the suspicion back onto him?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 23, 2009, 01:31:03 pm
Vote Sir Josh.
Post by: Leafsnail on September 23, 2009, 02:01:00 pm
"C!"
"Gimme an h!"
"H!"
"Gimme an o..."
Wait, so the computer is really going to try and give a votecount like this? You quickly get a pen and paper, and end up writing:
Quote
chaoticjosh: Pandarsenic, RedWarrior0, chaoticjosh, cheeetar, alexhans, Mr.Person, ToonyMan
Alexhans: Boksi
Boksi: Mephansteras
Archangel: Diakron
dakarian: Zaithemaster
Mr.Person: Dakarian
Day ends in approximately 24 hours.
Post by: Mr.Person on September 23, 2009, 02:12:13 pm
We all know what's gonna happen: We're going to lynch chaoticjosh. Simple facts here, people, if he's lying scum, he's lynched. If he's scum and his ability is real, we've used it early AND cleared someone AND Alexhans can shoot for scum again. If he's town, again, we've cleared somebody and Alexhans can shoot again. This is win-win, and you've gotten yourself VERY high on my suspiscion list Dakarian.
I understand your reasoning MP, but you kind of ignore Dakarion's point, which is that he wants the most time for the town to discuss, and clear up any ambiguities. Just hurrying things along to their logical conclusion seems counterproductive, and you missed this point, instead just trying to flip the suspicion back onto him?
We could go in circles with what if's and shit, or we can just see what happens. As ToonyMan so nicely put it, we're all either going to grudgingly go along with CJ's plan, or willingingly go along. What else is there to talk about?
Post by: Mephansteras on September 23, 2009, 02:27:33 pm
Quote from: Mr.Person
We could go in circles with what if's and shit, or we can just see what happens. As ToonyMan so nicely put it, we're all either going to grudgingly go along with CJ's plan, or willingingly go along. What else is there to talk about?
What's the harm in waiting until someone can confirm what his role does? Your insistence that we just end the day is making me rather suspicious of you, MP. Why not keep people talking? We can still scumhunt, after all, regardless of what chaoticjosh's role does.
Besides, by keeping the day going we can do several things.
1) We know that webadict was town, so we can start analyzing who voted for him. Much like we'd do day 2 in a regular game.
2) We should get as much voting pattern and reasoning out of people as we can. Regardless of the truth of Josh's role, I'd like to know why people are going along with it without knowing if he's telling the truth.
This is too much like what happened in Vote Mafia 2 with the Unlimited voter. Everyone kept going 'Oh, well we know what's going to happen so we should all just stop thinking and accept it', even though there was a lot we could still do and learn. And you know what? As scum that game we made great use of that mindset to help us win.
Scum can get away with sloppy thinking and rushed decisions, since they already know what's going on for the most part. Town can't. I don't know what Josh's role is, and I'm not willing to let him just decide what we all do today without thinking about it first. He's clever, and very good at finding breaking strategies in these games. So, yeah, if he's town he's got a great idea and we're off to a great start. If he's scum, he could be setting a trap for us that'll put us in a much worse situation.
You might be willing to trust everything on his claim, but I'm not. Josh has proven time and again that he's willing to lie and manipulate everyone to win. Unless I get some proof that he's town, I'm simply not willing to just accept that he's telling the truth.
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 23, 2009, 02:33:12 pm
We all know what's gonna happen: We're going to lynch chaoticjosh. Simple facts here, people, if he's lying scum, he's lynched. If he's scum and his ability is real, we've used it early AND cleared someone AND Alexhans can shoot for scum again. If he's town, again, we've cleared somebody and Alexhans can shoot again. This is win-win, and you've gotten yourself VERY high on my suspiscion list Dakarian.
I understand your reasoning MP, but you kind of ignore Dakarion's point, which is that he wants the most time for the town to discuss, and clear up any ambiguities. Just hurrying things along to their logical conclusion seems counterproductive, and you missed this point, instead just trying to flip the suspicion back onto him?
We could go in circles with what if's and shit, or we can just see what happens. As ToonyMan so nicely put it, we're all either going to grudgingly go along with CJ's plan, or willingingly go along. What else is there to talk about?
Unnecessary hostility duly noted.
Post by: Mr.Person on September 23, 2009, 03:31:16 pm
Quote from: Mr.PersonWe could go in circles with what if's and shit, or we can just see what happens. As ToonyMan so nicely put it, we're all either going to grudgingly go along with CJ's plan, or willingingly go along. What else is there to talk about?
What's the harm in waiting until someone can confirm what his role does? Your insistence that we just end the day is making me rather suspicious of you, MP. Why not keep people talking? We can still scumhunt, after all, regardless of what chaoticjosh's role does.
Besides, by keeping the day going we can do several things.
1) We know that webadict was town, so we can start analyzing who voted for him. Much like we'd do day 2 in a regular game.
2) We should get as much voting pattern and reasoning out of people as we can. Regardless of the truth of Josh's role, I'd like to know why people are going along with it without knowing if he's telling the truth.
This is too much like what happened in Vote Mafia 2 with the Unlimited voter. Everyone kept going 'Oh, well we know what's going to happen so we should all just stop thinking and accept it', even though there was a lot we could still do and learn. And you know what? As scum that game we made great use of that mindset to help us win.
Scum can get away with sloppy thinking and rushed decisions, since they already know what's going on for the most part. Town can't. I don't know what Josh's role is, and I'm not willing to let him just decide what we all do today without thinking about it first. He's clever, and very good at finding breaking strategies in these games. So, yeah, if he's town he's got a great idea and we're off to a great start. If he's scum, he could be setting a trap for us that'll put us in a much worse situation.
You might be willing to trust everything on his claim, but I'm not. Josh has proven time and again that he's willing to lie and manipulate everyone to win. Unless I get some proof that he's town, I'm simply not willing to just accept that he's telling the truth.
Welcome to what-if land, population: you. What could possibly make him win by getting lynched day 1? You tell me, it's your responsibility. Jester? I suppose, so we probably should wait for confirmation on his role.
Post by: Mephansteras on September 23, 2009, 03:55:03 pm
I want to hear more from him anyway, since he hasn't really done anything this game.
Post by: Leafsnail on September 23, 2009, 03:57:49 pm
Post by: Alexhans on September 23, 2009, 04:08:51 pm
Well, the only two people who haven't said their known roles yet are Alexhans and brothernature. I'm not sure why Alexhans wouldn't have confirmed Josh yet, so I'm guessing that we're waiting on brothernature.Not much time but pay more attention Meph ::). I did post my info... it's leafslug wich knows 2 roles (if that person hid that fact he was probably scum). read back.
I want to hear more from him anyway, since he hasn't really done anything this game.
Im curious about the bookadict role, though... I'll have to check it later.
Post by: Mephansteras on September 23, 2009, 04:14:37 pm
Ok, so we know we're waiting on brothernature. Now, if he'd just show up again...
Post by: brothernature on September 23, 2009, 05:01:46 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on September 23, 2009, 05:04:22 pm
Now that I know Josh is telling the truth...Unvote. Vote chaoticjosh.
Post by: dakarian on September 23, 2009, 05:49:29 pm
Unvote. Vote chaoticjosh
While I won't block an attempt to shorten the day, I think we can make good use of it. Use the time in between now and the first lynch to debate more.
*hoping to be able to do that scan he so needs to do*
Post by: Diakron on September 23, 2009, 06:09:41 pm
Unvote. Vote chaoticjosh
Can i just bandwagon on this ;D
im all for scumhunting and asking people random questions to test their responses.
... but i am lacking in this department...
Post by: Mephansteras on September 23, 2009, 06:22:11 pm
Alexhans and Chaoticjosh are both acting pretty town so far, so I'm putting them lower on the list of suspects.
Alexhans because he's acting more like his true town self then his fake town self (from what I've seen of his playstyle)
Josh because giving the town a confirmed player to rally around seems like a dumb move for scum, and I think he'd save that power for later if he was scum.
Mr.Person has acted rather oddly, and while lynching Josh should be good for the town I'm not sure that Mr.Person has our best interests at heart. So, FOS: Mr.Person
brothernature and Boksi have both been pretty quiet, so I'd like to hear more from them. FOS: brothernature and Boksi for lurking (borthernature less so, since his Internet was out. Still, he hasn't tried to do much the times he was on, so it still stays).
I'll have to go back through and look at everyone else, but at least that's a start.
Post by: Mr.Person on September 23, 2009, 06:52:21 pm
Post by: dakarian on September 23, 2009, 06:53:17 pm
After looking through your posts I've noticed that you've been very unconventional.
You've spent a large amount of time arguing with people when they make an accusations on another person. It makes scumhunting rather difficult since the debates get derailed by your defense. Meanwhile, for a large while, you weren't doing much to hunt for mafia. Why not let the accused speak for themselves? How do you expect the town to find the scum when you keep getting in their way?
When you do make an accusation, it's riding on another person's argument. When Cheetar accused Panda you pushed Cheetar for more info then, when given, went for the vote. You had NO questions to Panda? If Cheetar didn't speak out would you had said anything? Are you trying to get others to do the work for you?
Then there's this:
You do know it's still day 1 and random voting is still ok, right?
Then later
Quote
Yes, random voting should be frowned upon. We WOULD much rather hear opinions on what Alexhans did, the Pandarsenic thing, ect and more importantly, who's scum and who's town. On the other hand, it might kick up more info, so it really isn't a bad thing to still be random voting, so don't worry so much about it.
Random voting in day 1 is ok, but random voting should be frowned upon, but it really isn't a bad thing to still be random voting.
Did I get that right?
Lastly, there's this:
Quote
Pandarsenic, what's your take on the whole Alexhans issue? I think he's town, myself, but I want to hear what the rest of you guys say.
then later
Quote
This is going to sound terrible, because it is, but I was trying to get Alexhans night killed by the mafia.
So you tried to get a townie killed by the mafia. Am I reading that right?
Post by: Zai on September 23, 2009, 06:58:45 pm
...AND Alexhans can shoot for scum again...and Alexhans can shoot again.
WHY ARE YOU SO CERTAIN ALEX IS TOWNIE? Alex being able to hammer-kill again is not a good thing if he's scum. Are you trying to link yourself and Alex together? Because it's working. You keep acting like you know he's town, but he doesn't seem to reciprocate the feeling. You say it's okay to still random vote, but then as soon as Alex says differently, you do a turnabout and say it should be frowned upon. FoS M.P again. Actually. Upon further review. You even voted for Alex first before moving on and constantly agreeing with him, which is a common scumtell. It's like you're going out of your way to make yourself look like scum.
...Are Drakonian and Dracron both on the same side? That's the only reasoning I can think of for you to act like you 2 are on a team together if you're a townie, other than some ridiculous scheme of yours.
Anyway. At this point, it would appear my vote doesn't matter, as there's already 10 (?) votes on Josh (or is unanimous voting required for his power to work? o,0). More attention needs to be paid to lurkers once Josh revives Web. So until then, I'll be using my vote to apply "pressure" to lurkers. Because lurking is bad. And lurkers can be killed by ChAoTiCjIm at night.
Unvote dakarian. I vote boksi. Do something useful and productive. Just posting with any vague attempt at content is better than nothing.
[Pre-post Edit:] Jesus Christ. 5 new posts while I wrote mine? o,0
Post by: Mephansteras on September 23, 2009, 07:01:08 pm
I love how you think cj isn't scum because he advocated using his power, yet you're FoSing me for... wanting him to use his power. I must be missing something, what exactly do you mean by "doesn't have the best interests of the town at heart"?
It's not the use of Josh's power that bothers me. Nothing wrong with that plan at all (now that we know it's his actual power). It's the fact that you want to just go "Oh, nevermind talking about anything else or doing any more scum hunting. Let's just use Josh's power and be done with it."
I fail to see how that's useful in any way. If I understand it correctly, his power is going to wipe all the votes, bring Webadict back, and give Alexhans his ability to use again. It's not going to magically get all the scum for us or tell us who to lynch. We'll be right back at voting and talking. So why hurry it along? Who does that help?
And I hadn't noticed some of the stuff dakarian brought up, be has some very good points. You're acting very odd and I'm really starting to think you don't have the town's best interests at heart.
How about you start helping us find scum instead of trying to block everyone's attempts at questioning other people?
Post by: Mr.Person on September 23, 2009, 07:32:01 pm
Nice job, Josh, if this works as you say it will. I find it funny that the Pandar-inspired role fixes up after the Alexhans-inspired role (that appears to me to be the only use for Cobrarsenic)....AND Alexhans can shoot for scum again...and Alexhans can shoot again.
WHY ARE YOU SO CERTAIN ALEX IS TOWNIE? Alex being able to hammer-kill again is not a good thing if he's scum. Are you trying to link yourself and Alex together? Because it's working. You keep acting like you know he's town, but he doesn't seem to reciprocate the feeling. You say it's okay to still random vote, but then as soon as Alex says differently, you do a turnabout and say it should be frowned upon. FoS M.P again. Actually. Upon further review. You even voted for Alex first before moving on and constantly agreeing with him, which is a common scumtell. It's like you're going out of your way to make yourself look like scum.
...Are Drakonian and Dracron both on the same side? That's the only reasoning I can think of for you to act like you 2 are on a team together if you're a townie, other than some ridiculous scheme of yours.
Anyway. At this point, it would appear my vote doesn't matter, as there's already 10 (?) votes on Josh (or is unanimous voting required for his power to work? o,0). More attention needs to be paid to lurkers once Josh revives Web. So until then, I'll be using my vote to apply "pressure" to lurkers. Because lurking is bad. And lurkers can be killed by ChAoTiCjIm at night.
Unvote dakarian. I vote boksi. Do something useful and productive. Just posting with any vague attempt at content is better than nothing.
[Pre-post Edit:] Jesus Christ. 5 new posts while I wrote mine? o,0
I'm not certain he's a townie, but there are 2 things I should point out. One, I just think he's a on the town, I'm not sure, but I think he is. Two, even if he is scum, it's best if he shoots today after hearing what everybody has said. This is like the Infinity Voter, we don't want his power at lylo. It comes down to that, really. Chaoticjosh mentioned that Alexhans shooting again would be good, why aren't you drilling him?
I said random voting was ok, although we should look down on it. I don't see how this is hard to understand, you SHOULDN'T do it at this point, but it's not a reason to get in a fight. If that doesn't make any sense, just ignore it. It's not a big deal.
I refuse to answer any questions about what my role is at the present time. Nice role fishing, btw.
Post by: Zai on September 23, 2009, 07:46:40 pm
Chaoticjosh mentioned that Alexhans shooting again would be good, why aren't you drilling him?
I guess I skimmed over his posts a bit too much, then. Regardless (as in, to both of you and everyone), Alexhans hammer-killing again willy nilly is not good is basically what I was getting at. We've already seen what that can result in (the very needless killing of a townie), and it should not be done again. Like you said in your second point, he should only hammer-kill if the majority of people agree with him. If he does freely hammer-kill, he'll be confirmed scum.
Quote
I refuse to answer any questions about what my role is at the present time. Nice role fishing, btw.
I didn't ask what your role is. It was a question directed more at Leafsnail, though upon further thought, I suppose he'll only answer someone with one of those roles. And I don't see how asking a question about roles (not who has them) is rolefishing.
Post by: dakarian on September 23, 2009, 07:57:52 pm
Redwarrior random voted, so Diakron called him down on it.
You then attacked Diakron by saying that it's ok to random vote Day 1.
Alexhans then pushed back at you saying "but RVS is over".
You reply with that "it should be looked down upon"
Even though it all started by Diakron looking down on Redwarrior's random vote.
Your stance isn't as clear as you make it, and the attempt to brush that off won't work here.
Meanwhile, you haven't said a thing about the REST of my post. Question Dodging? That's VERY scummy.
Post by: Mr.Person on September 23, 2009, 08:32:24 pm
Funny, your first post about random voting was here (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=42096.msg775975#msg775975)
Redwarrior random voted, so Diakron called him down on it.
You then attacked Diakron by saying that it's ok to random vote Day 1.
Alexhans then pushed back at you saying "but RVS is over".
You reply with that "it should be looked down upon"
Even though it all started by Diakron looking down on Redwarrior's random vote.
Your stance isn't as clear as you make it, and the attempt to brush that off won't work here.
Meanwhile, you haven't said a thing about the REST of my post. Question Dodging? That's VERY scummy.
Oh, you mean that crap where you say I'm "making it hard to scumhunt"? No comment, really, as if you think me giving my opinion is bad, by all means, ask me to stop giving my opinion.
Seriously, you're attacking me for giving my opinion? You might want to rethink your accusation there, it's a terrible one.
Post by: dakarian on September 23, 2009, 08:53:04 pm
You aren't scumhunting. You aren't accusing people of being scummy. You aren't taking bad statements and calling people out for it.
When others do just that, you step in and defend the other. Perhaps if you turned around and showed them their own misteps it would be a scumhunt, but once they pull away you do nothing else to them. If they continue to argue, you jump to their side and say "you're right".
Then once in a while, you jump with someone and tell everyone to not question their actions. When I did question you strike at me with it.
Your arguments wish and wash, you attempt to control the town, and you pick and choose your arguments (I noticed you said nothing about my "you wanted a townie nightkilled!?" comment). You think just name calling the argument and acting in a huff will push me away? That makes things worse.
Because now I believe you're gone past just being an Unhelpful Townie, which I may fuss at but won't lynch. I believe you're trying hard, VERY HARD, to confuse, harass, and control the town. It's not the best scum play at all, but that's how some try to do it.
So yes, I'm going to firmly say it. You, sir are scum. When the day resets (so we can get Webactict back) you'll be lynched.
Now, got some REAL counterarguments, or will you solidify my stance by dismissing it all with hyperbole, strawmen, and insults?
Post by: brothernature on September 23, 2009, 09:03:30 pm
Post by: dakarian on September 23, 2009, 09:47:32 pm
I want to hear other people's ideas on the matter, which is usually what the lynch allows. However, I like the idea of using up the daykill instead of the day.
So how about this: instead of Vote use "Daykill" If you believe Person is scum, do Daykill: Person. If we get enough of those 'votes' on him, then Alex can hammer and we can use the rest of the day to go from there.
So Alex, don't hammer him early. Wait for the rest of the town to put their input in.
For myself,
Daykill: Person
Post by: Mr.Person on September 23, 2009, 10:13:11 pm
A hybrid idea:
I want to hear other people's ideas on the matter, which is usually what the lynch allows. However, I like the idea of using up the daykill instead of the day.
So how about this: instead of Vote use "Daykill" If you believe Person is scum, do Daykill: Person. If we get enough of those 'votes' on him, then Alex can hammer and we can use the rest of the day to go from there.
So Alex, don't hammer him early. Wait for the rest of the town to put their input in.
For myself,
Daykill: Person
Trying to control the town is a valid strategy and you know it. After all, if the town does what I want and I'm right, I win. By extension, so will the rest of the town. Besides, I'm not even trying to control the town. When did I do that? What have I told the town to do, listen to Chaoticjosh because him lying would be insane? Do you call that "controlling the town"? I don't, I just stated the obvious. I suppose you could call the day shortening thing controlling the town, but seriously? What have you learned today that couldn't be learned during the second today? Does it matter? Also note that Webadict isn't here to say anything, so we're actually DOWN a voice!
Personally, I think you are the one with the shitty strawmen arguments in a desperate attempt to get me lynched, mafia-man. I'm not sure why, since if Alexhans is scum, you'd be killing off his number one supporter. If he isn't, you're breaking up an unlikely voting block, since I almost know Alexhans isn't going to think I'm town. (Oh, look at that, strawman argument just like you. Did you note that I left out the possibility that you're a misguided townie, just like you left out the possibility I'm a townie? I guess looking beyond what you want to see is too hard for you, eh?)
On your "You wanted a townie nightkilled?!?" thing, well think about it for a second. What, were you expecting the mafia to nightkill themselves? No, chucklefuck, they're going to nightkill townies. And who, pray tell, should the mafia kill? Why, they should kill the weakest townies who are the most suspicious, So yes, I was trying to get Alexhans nightkilled both because after the second day 1, he'll be a regular townie and because we'll all WIFOM over backwards about if he's scum or not. I say fuck that, I want Alexhans night killed. Skips all the bullshit and gets right to everybody else, who are way easier to read anyways.
Post by: Diakron on September 23, 2009, 10:28:13 pm
err guess i'm trying to say: i'm going to vote you to be lynched next day...
Post by: Mr.Person on September 23, 2009, 10:31:10 pm
Wow and i thought i use to do stupid shi-... Mr. P all i said is that we where past the RVS (we where discussing the possibilities of alexhan being scum so lets not forget that topic) when RedWarrior tried to derail the discussion by going back to RVS, which i did not like, so i tried to remind him that we where busy, and to save it for tomorrow...
err guess i'm trying to say: i'm going to vote you to be lynched next day...
And why would that be? No, you are not allowed to bandwagon like that. Everybody must state a reason for non-random votes. This isn't a rule or anything, but I know for a fact if you don't Alexhans will just ask you for a reason anyways, so it doesn't really matter.
Post by: Diakron on September 23, 2009, 10:49:32 pm
Wow and i thought i use to do stupid shi-... Mr. P all i said is that we where past the RVS (we where discussing the possibilities of alexhan being scum so lets not forget that topic) when RedWarrior tried to derail the discussion by going back to RVS, which i did not like, so i tried to remind him that we where busy, and to save it for tomorrow...
err guess i'm trying to say: i'm going to vote you to be lynched next day...
And why would that be? No, you are not allowed to bandwagon like that. Everybody must state a reason for non-random votes. This isn't a rule or anything, but I know for a fact if you don't Alexhans will just ask you for a reason anyways, so it doesn't really matter.
and another attempt to derail with an implied threat...
Post by: dakarian on September 23, 2009, 10:51:10 pm
Everyone else, I ask you to do one of three things:
1. Look at my argument and see which parts of it are wrong or misguided.
2. If Mr Person seems suspicious but not fully scum then bring up your suspicions so that he can speak to his defense and convince you one way or another.
3. If the debate has convinced you that Mr Person is scum then request the Daykill on him. That way we can save the lynch for afterwards.
As it stands, Person is either a foul mouthed, hyperactive, angry townie or a mafia that has completely lost his cool. I believe the latter, but am willing to listen to reasons why he might be the former.
Post by: Diakron on September 23, 2009, 10:54:15 pm
My reasoning is that your protecting Alex, that plus you keep talking like he's got your back
Post by: Mr.Person on September 23, 2009, 11:26:10 pm
Wow and i thought i use to do stupid shi-... Mr. P all i said is that we where past the RVS (we where discussing the possibilities of alexhan being scum so lets not forget that topic) when RedWarrior tried to derail the discussion by going back to RVS, which i did not like, so i tried to remind him that we where busy, and to save it for tomorrow...
err guess i'm trying to say: i'm going to vote you to be lynched next day...
And why would that be? No, you are not allowed to bandwagon like that. Everybody must state a reason for non-random votes. This isn't a rule or anything, but I know for a fact if you don't Alexhans will just ask you for a reason anyways, so it doesn't really matter.
and another attempt to derail with an implied threat...
derail... what? Now you've just gone insane. I asked you for a reason you voted me, and you respond with your OWN derailment so you wouldn't have to answer, so major FoS on Diakron. Funny, that.
FAKEDIT: Oh, and your reason is terrible. Try again, pairing up with another player is not a reason to lynch them. Now, if Alexhans flipped mafia, you'd have a strong case. As it is, you pulled that out of your ass to get another vote on me.
Post by: Diakron on September 23, 2009, 11:31:31 pm
Post by: Alexhans on September 24, 2009, 12:14:26 am
Dont wory Mr.Person... I think you are having one of the famous townie fights...
I think dakarian is town despite I disagree on so many levels with him.
And you're striking me as town too.
I'll develop on this later.
Diakron seems to be dakarian, dude... Are you sure you guys dont have the same IP? :P
boksi, archangel... Those are my prefered kills. You can always lynch out the other active people. But these guys will just lurk, lurk, lurk.
I don't seem to recall much from redwarrior or brothernature either but Ill have to check...
Also need to check on cheeetar.
PS: dont worry. I wont rush the hammer this time.
PS2: This time. Webadict (confirmed town) will be able to chip in.
g'night.
Post by: Mr.Person on September 24, 2009, 12:35:02 am
Post by: Archangel on September 24, 2009, 03:41:54 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 24, 2009, 04:00:30 am
HAHA! I just got the answers to some questions, and I think I've broken the game.
How? My role is very special you see, I'm Cobrarsenic, and if I'm lynched, then the day resets, negating the effects of anything and everything that has happened during the day, including my own lynch. The day then receives a new deadline. I can only do this once however.
What this means is that, if you lynch me, then Webadict will be revived, and we'll have a confirmed townie!
ChaoticJosh
Vote for me everyone. Then we can determine who to really lynch.
I'm almost certain this is a reference to the instance of Paranormal Mafia in which I finally got my beloved Exterminator - only to have it stolen from me by the Dopp fucktardologism (Yes, I am still mad about that).
I'll keep my vote on Joshface.
Daykill: Mr.Person
FoS Diakron via Dakarian.
They're both acting ridiculously odd - Mr.Person is inconsistent and is behaving just plain strangely, and Diakron (actual Diakron) is- Er.
Unless it's Dakarian?
Whichever one didn't want to go with Josh's pretty obviously-good plan.
Post by: dakarian on September 24, 2009, 08:13:47 am
It was a small quick step to settle a lot of issues. I found it VERY odd that Person would attack me for it. It didn't even take long for that person to eventually step up and do the confirm I asked for.
Alex, you said you disagree with me and you believe Person is town. Mind explaining why that is? I'm not going to go all "OMG there's NO WAY he's town!" but I'm going to need some explanation for Person's actions in order to let go of him. I can't get anything from Person since all he does is dismiss arguments and belittle me for having them.
As for the lurkers, it's always dangerous to kill lurkers since you're shooting blind and could be wasting a shot. If they are active but not posting, it's best to pressure them with votes to force them into the air. If they ignore that, they may not even be in the game and, thus, should be replaced by the moderator. True lurking is, in the end, a null tell, NOT a scum tell (active lurking, where they post once in a while but give no content is different). We should be aiming our kills, lynch and daykill, on people who we truly believe are scum.
Meanwhile, no, Diakron is not my alt. I'll do a scan of him though.
Post by: Boksi on September 24, 2009, 11:15:20 am
Right now, I'm the most suspicious of Mr. Person, due to his general behavior, but I'm not ruling out anybody but myself.
Post by: dakarian on September 24, 2009, 11:24:28 am
Now, you said 'due to his general behavior'. Mind being specific? What, in particular, makes you suspicious of him. For that matter, what matters are you still waiting on in figuring out who is scum and who isn't?
Also "trying to lynch alexhans" why him?
Reason for asking: In games like this, information is the key to our victory. Knowing not just what people believe in but also WHY is vital here. As such, having suspicions about people is a good thing (at this point, anyone who isn't suspicious about SOMEONE is either sleeping on the job or highly suspect). Voicing them is also good. However, something drove you to those suspicions. I'm asking you now for those 'somethings'.
Post by: dakarian on September 24, 2009, 11:34:15 am
Then I spotted it. O.o
@ Diakron
Ok. two questions to you when you get back:
1. you said you're willing to lynch him. Does that mean you're up for that daykill as well? If so, make it official with Daykill: Person
2. After Person, who's next on your suspect list, and why?
Post by: Mephansteras on September 24, 2009, 12:12:57 pm
A hybrid idea:
I want to hear other people's ideas on the matter, which is usually what the lynch allows. However, I like the idea of using up the daykill instead of the day.
So how about this: instead of Vote use "Daykill" If you believe Person is scum, do Daykill: Person. If we get enough of those 'votes' on him, then Alex can hammer and we can use the rest of the day to go from there.
So Alex, don't hammer him early. Wait for the rest of the town to put their input in.
For myself,
Daykill: Person
Trying to control the town is a valid strategy and you know it. After all, if the town does what I want and I'm right, I win. By extension, so will the rest of the town. Besides, I'm not even trying to control the town. When did I do that? What have I told the town to do, listen to Chaoticjosh because him lying would be insane? Do you call that "controlling the town"? I don't, I just stated the obvious. I suppose you could call the day shortening thing controlling the town, but seriously? What have you learned today that couldn't be learned during the second today? Does it matter? Also note that Webadict isn't here to say anything, so we're actually DOWN a voice!
Personally, I think you are the one with the shitty strawmen arguments in a desperate attempt to get me lynched, mafia-man. I'm not sure why, since if Alexhans is scum, you'd be killing off his number one supporter. If he isn't, you're breaking up an unlikely voting block, since I almost know Alexhans isn't going to think I'm town. (Oh, look at that, strawman argument just like you. Did you note that I left out the possibility that you're a misguided townie, just like you left out the possibility I'm a townie? I guess looking beyond what you want to see is too hard for you, eh?)
On your "You wanted a townie nightkilled?!?" thing, well think about it for a second. What, were you expecting the mafia to nightkill themselves? No, chucklefuck, they're going to nightkill townies. And who, pray tell, should the mafia kill? Why, they should kill the weakest townies who are the most suspicious, So yes, I was trying to get Alexhans nightkilled both because after the second day 1, he'll be a regular townie and because we'll all WIFOM over backwards about if he's scum or not. I say fuck that, I want Alexhans night killed. Skips all the bullshit and gets right to everybody else, who are way easier to read anyways.
Finally, we get some good solid answers out of you. Thank you, that clears up a lot.
Those are actually pretty decent reasons for what you've been doing (even if you have been a bit belligerent about it). I'm not giving you a complete pass, since you've had plenty of time to think up good excuses if you're scum, but I'm moving you down my suspect list for now.
So, who do you think are scum, Mr.Person? dakarian, obviously, but who else?
Post by: Mr.Person on September 24, 2009, 01:36:59 pm
Other than that, not so sure. Diakron is possible, but I'd have to read back. Too many people who haven't said much. Oh, and if it makes anybody feel better, Alexhans has made himself less town due to the fact that he doesn't want to take sides in the me vs. Dakarian thing. "Oh, you're both town!" is as close to saying "I don't want to get involved!" as possible. (Even if it is true, which it might be)
Dakarian, I love how you attack me for trying to control the town while you're trying to bully Alexhans into killing me by bullying the rest of the town into voting for me. Don't you think you're being a touch hypocritical?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 24, 2009, 01:41:39 pm
Post by: dakarian on September 24, 2009, 01:51:20 pm
I asked the town to speak up about the debate, not demand your death. I'm not going to tear at Alex for thinking you're alright. I asked for his response to see if MY argument is correct or if I mistook something. Right now, there's a few that say "you aren't scum" but I want to know their reasoning to see if I need to correct myself. Note I struck harder with Boksi who IS suspicious of you.
Honestly, YOU should be the one questioning the folks who just write a quick "you look scummy" post (yes, I see you there Toonyman).
Btw, your statement about Archangel sounds odd. Arc is the one that wants to kill of lurkers. I poked at him for it and defended the lurkers. The sentence after 'archangel is scum' sounds like you are accusing him of defending lurkers when, in fact, he's not.
So if you meant "Dakarian is scum because he's defending lurkers" then you still need to answer the question: WHY do you think Archangel is scum if I am scum?
Post by: Leafsnail on September 24, 2009, 02:46:47 pm
The computer reads out, in a dramatic tone:
"FINAL VOTECOUNT":
Quote
chaoticjosh: Pandarsenic, RedWarrior0, chaoticjosh, cheeetar, alexhans, Mr.Person, ToonyMan, Mephansteras, Dakarian, Diakron, Boksi
boksi: Zaithemaster
After much consideration, you decide to lynch boksi. Nah, only kidding, it's chaoticjosh who will face the lynch today!
A pentagram suddenly appears on the floor. It would seem that the computer intends for you to use the pentagram as your de facto lynching spot. Remembering something Methilestesas told you yesterday, you realise it's a Circle of Dramaticism - all events going on in it are 10x more dramatic.
Chaoticjosh willingly steps into the pentagram. "I'm here" he says, "Shoot me. Shoot me now!"
All of you look to each other uneasily. Is it really a good idea? Could he be lying about his secret abilities? Well, there's only one way to find out. Pandarsenic takes up the revolver from Shot in the Dark mafia and steps into the pentagram with chaoticjosh. The lights around the room fall, apart from a single spotlight on the pentagram.
Pandarsenic levels the revolver at chaoticjosh's head. "Goodbye" he says "And I guess if you're lying scum, you'll soon be dead lying scum."
"Nothing to worry about then" says chaoticjosh, grinning, "Shoot."
The room falls silent as Pandarsenic moves his finger to the trigger, and in an agonisingly slow motion...
He fires. You see the path of the bullet, which moves straight through chaoticjosh's skull. Chaoticjosh looks shocked as he falls backwards in what appears to be slow motion, seeing a trail of his blood arch through the air above him. He hits the ground, and has time for one word before he passes on to the next world.
"Ouch."
Post by: Leafsnail on September 24, 2009, 02:47:55 pm
You will need to find the escaped Cyberscum before they kill you all! The Hotel must vanquish the scumteam before they are beaten!
A storm is brewing outside, and it is clear that escape is impossible. Methilestesas explained this to you yesterday - the computer has control over the area. If someone tries to leave, they'll trip over. Or their car will break down. Or they will suddenly feel guilt and be forced to run back to the hotel. Anything is possible when a Skynet-like-being is on the rampage.
As you hear a terrible howl outside, you realise that the computer has full control over the Hotel.
You see webadict, who for some reason looks at alexhans before cowering and whimpering slightly. That's odd - why would he be scared of someone so small and adorable? Oh well, never mind.
Player list:
ToonyMan
chaoticjosh
Pandarsenic
Zaithemaster
Mephansteras
Archangel
Diakron
Mr.Person
Cheeetar
dakarian
webadict
RedWarrior0
brothernature
Boksi
Alexhans
The day will end in roughly 120 hours. Most day phases in this game will last approximately 3 week days. Good luck, everyone.
Post by: Mephansteras on September 24, 2009, 02:52:13 pm
Everyone should now PM their role to Webadict. Then we can see what he figures out.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 24, 2009, 02:57:18 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on September 24, 2009, 03:04:34 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on September 24, 2009, 03:10:04 pm
Oh, and I've realised I'm working on a policy of three weekdays per dayphase, so I guess that means Day 1 will end in 5 days from now.
We wanted a mulligan on that day, so we got one!
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 24, 2009, 03:30:57 pm
Argumentativeness is one thing, but you've been feverishly defending youself, disproportionate to the actual suspicion on you at the time, and you've yet to convince me otherwise of your actual towniness.
Pandar, weren't you one of the daykill rousers? Are you waiting for something?
Post by: Zai on September 24, 2009, 04:31:43 pm
I was the one to hold caution to the plan. I said I wanted to find the person that knew Cobrar's role to speak up and confirm before we push ahead with the plan so that we don't end up with something like a scum Beloved Princess.
It was a small quick step to settle a lot of issues. I found it VERY odd that Person would attack me for it. It didn't even take long for that person to eventually step up and do the confirm I asked for.
Actually, that was a null fear. There shouldn't be any roles that are specific to one side, as all roles can be either scum or town. Unless they get an equivalent but different power as townie or scum, that's not anything to worry about.
I don't like this Dakarian/M.P fight. I just have a bad feeling about it, similar to the Alexhans/webadict fight. But out of the 2, M.P is being more unreasonable (and I've already FoS'd him 2 (? goin' on memory here) times, and haven't been too suspicious of dakarian up 'til now).
For now, I keep my vote on Boksi. Popping in with nothing to add and bandwagoning ("Besides, it's getting a clear majority already." Your vote for that wasn't necessary, then, so why even bother making it?) isn't gonna do it for me. Please clarify why you brought up lynching Alex yet mentioning that you were most suspicious of M.P.
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 24, 2009, 04:36:39 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on September 24, 2009, 04:38:49 pm
Right now, though, I want to hear from Boksi and brothernature the most. Who do you think are scum? Who do you think is town at this point? What is your opinion of everything that happened the first time around for day 1?
You're both lurking a bit and it's liable to get you both killed. It's fine if you can't get online to post too often, but please try to make the posts that you do make informative and helpful.
Same goes for you Archangel. I don't need you to post a whole lot each day phase, but make your posts count. Just popping in to say 'sorry, I can't post much' isn't helpful. (Your last post, btw, was just fine. It had actual content and suspicions, although some more explanation would have been nice.)
Post by: Zai on September 24, 2009, 04:42:11 pm
Wow and i thought i use to do stupid shi-... Mr. P all i said is that we where past the RVS (we where discussing the possibilities of alexhan being scum so lets not forget that topic) when RedWarrior tried to derail the discussion by going back to RVS, which i did not like, so i tried to remind him that we where busy, and to save it for tomorrow...
err guess i'm trying to say: i'm going to vote you to be lynched next day...
And why would that be? No, you are not allowed to bandwagon like that. Everybody must state a reason for non-random votes. This isn't a rule or anything, but I know for a fact if you don't Alexhans will just ask you for a reason anyways, so it doesn't really matter.
and another attempt to derail with an implied threat...
...Except that that "derailment" was a legitimate question. I know you are Diakron after all, but still. FoS Diakron.
[Pre-Post Edit:] Oh. Right, Josh. I vote Boksi.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on September 24, 2009, 04:42:42 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 24, 2009, 04:44:44 pm
Actually Zai, everyone's vote is reset. Nobody besides me has a vote on anyone right now.
Do your thing Alexhans.
Vote Mr.Person.
Post by: Mr.Person on September 24, 2009, 04:45:44 pm
Actually Zai, everyone's vote is reset. Nobody besides me has a vote on anyone right now.
Do your thing Alexhans.
Vote Mr.Person.
Sorry ToonyMan, that's just not going to cut it. Nice bandwagoning, btw.
Post by: brothernature on September 24, 2009, 05:07:11 pm
Edit: Quick Grammar fix
Post by: ToonyMan on September 24, 2009, 05:09:26 pm
Actually Zai, everyone's vote is reset. Nobody besides me has a vote on anyone right now.
Do your thing Alexhans.
Vote Mr.Person.
Sorry ToonyMan, that's just not going to cut it. Nice bandwagoning, btw.
You've been in my sights the whole game. You're acting really odd.
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 24, 2009, 05:11:56 pm
It's just really hard to come into the middle of the game. I was sleeping while the whole first 6 pages or so happened and didn't really participate, so I don't really know what you guys are talking about...Or even half the terms you guys use.
If you don't know the terms BN, then feel free to ask. We'll be happy to answer questions.
Please don't use it as an excuse to lurk though.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 24, 2009, 05:15:24 pm
Post by: Diakron on September 24, 2009, 07:53:33 pm
Mr. Person - Although you seem to have calmed down i still think you are scum. i am sorry if i dont make myself clear in my answer but if you look at my past you will see that i dont have a clear sentence structure and my ADD make it hard for me to follow an idea from beginning to end. However, that doesn't mean i avoid questions i have nothing to hide and will gladly banter, joke scumhunt, answer your questions, and push lynches when i feel it necessary.
My reason to vote you however is that you feel scummy as we are not activly scumhunting, i have to go back and read what everyone has said and come up with decisions from there, to me you seem to be acting anti-town... thats all on that i guess...
Alex: You would be my second choices as scum but you seem honestly repentive of you hammer, but that could be a ruse. Mr. P seems to defend you and it has been brought to my notice that this is a scumtell.
BN: i am intrested in what your original post looked like...
@ everyone: i have roleclaimed already so everyone knows i am LeafSlug.
i think i got everything please give me a nudge on anything you want to know about.
Post by: webadict on September 24, 2009, 11:08:06 pm
Anyhow, if you don't send me your roles, I will make sure you die.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 25, 2009, 01:38:03 am
No, but really, Mr.Person, I don't honestly remember why I wanted you dead but I'll be sure to reiterate once I've slept.
Post by: Archangel on September 25, 2009, 04:18:17 am
Post by: Boksi on September 25, 2009, 07:57:24 am
Now, I'd also like you to remember that I don't have as much experience as most of you do, so my inexperience means I don't always make good decisions or arguments.
...That's just going to make you suspect I'm scum trying a "i'm new halp plz" ploy, isn't it?
Anyway, I seem to be overly fond of bandwagoning, so I'm voting Mr. Person now.
Post by: Alexhans on September 25, 2009, 08:11:20 am
I've played a lot with Mr.Person on IRC and we've learned to be agressive and look at every single thing. There's a lot of things that give me town-tells from his part.
The way in wich he suspected me before seems truthful.
The fact that he was trying to get me nightkilled is very reasonable. I would do the same. I actually knew I had to use the kill on day 1 so I could be viewed as nothing more than a townie so as to stay alive because scum would try to kill a PR. Yes, I am selfish.
Josh gains town points for his play. He could've shutted up about it.
Quote from: Meph
What if he's lying scum and he has a power that makes lynching him a bad idea for the town?Dude... This seems one stupid question... There's no game where scum can get lynched without losing... Otherwise... how would town win?
Quote from: Meph
Like a deadman bomb that kills two people who voted for him or something?Then he wouldn't use it now. He would use it when he is near lylo so he can win the game early. There was NO suspicion on him. Also... 2 town players for one scum is a fair deal.
Quote from: dakarian
And if he's a role that we definately do NOT want to kill? Scum Beloved Princess perhaps?What... the... fuck? ??? Same thing I said to meph... Also, why the paranoia? If someone admitted scum would you be suspicious that he is some kind of scum that benefits from getting lynched? ???
Quote from: Josh about Mr.Person
Unnecessary hostility duly noted.so?
Quote from: Mr.Person to Meph
Welcome to what-if land, population: you.lol
Quote from: Dakarian to Mr.PErson
Cheetar accused pandar for writing in CAPS, lying about the Archerub role and lurking... the first one is joking around wich it may or may not be viewed as a scumtell. The other 2 are fake. What's wrong with saying that? I did it too. Why didn't you call ME on it?
When you do make an accusation, it's riding on another person's argument. When Cheetar accused Panda you pushed Cheetar for more info then, when given, went for the vote. You had NO questions to Panda? If Cheetar didn't speak out would you had said anything? Are you trying to get others to do the work for you?
Quote from: Dakarian to Mr.P
Then once in a while, you jump with someone and tell everyone to not question their actions. When I did question you strike at me with it.You're starting to have a lot of flaws in your playstyle. You're generalizing here. When I said that you should trust me on not revealing my role before others did people thought it was some sort of stupid scum strategy and Mr.Person (who knows me) suggested that you should trust me when I said I had a reason for I wouldn't do such a thing otherwise. He did it once. Not "once in a while".
Take a deep breath. Leave your emotional ties to the game behind.
Why don't we get Alex to hammer-kill Person when the day resets instead of wasting the days lynch? I'd much rather do that, so if he does flip town, we might have a chance to lynch scum today.is that your whole contribution?
Sleep is a good idea, thanks you Alexhans. When Webadict shows up, we should all claim to him. What's the worst that can happen?Isn't this a non-free pm game?
Alright, Mr. Person's arguments seem hollow to me, using verbosity to batter people into thinking he's actually saying something, Therefore I say daykill: Mr. Person. I also think Boksi should say something. He's said less than me! (Sorry about that by the way, but I usually only have internet access in the evening and night, so it's difficult for me to post more than once or twice a day)He is actually saying something and you're not. I know that you may have troubles posting... blah, blah but it happens every game you play in.
So pandar... you want to daykill Mr.P and fos diakron and dakarian? cool... You say both sides of the discussion are scum, righT?
FoS:Pandar
Quote from: Dakarian
As for the lurkers, it's always dangerous to kill lurkers since you're shooting blind and could be wasting a shot. If they are active but not posting, it's best to pressure them with votes to force them into the air. If they ignore that, they may not even be in the game and, thus, should be replaced by the moderator. True lurking is, in the end, a null tell, NOT a scum tell (active lurking, where they post once in a while but give no content is different). We should be aiming our kills, lynch and daykill, on people who we truly believe are scum.Lurkers suck. If we let town lurkers live they will be lynched later in the game to support a scum win. We better take lurkers first. They wont be nightkilled and they cant be read. I know it may be a null tell but I dont care for they LOSE games. They need to be taken out before its too late. I definetly welcome a replacement.
Quote from: Boksi
But for now, I'll unvote and vote chaoticjosh. It seems like a decent idea right now, or at least better than trying to lynch Alexhans. Besides, it's getting a clear majority already.This guy keeps freaking me out. He always goes with the herd.
Right now, I'm the most suspicious of Mr. Person, due to his general behavior, but I'm not ruling out anybody but myself.
That last sentence is FULL OF NOTHING. Saying he can suspect everyone and that he suspects the guy in the spotlight for his "general behaviour"... come on!
Quote from: Boksi early in the game
'Ey, I'm here. I'd rather not roleclaim though, since my power is only useful if it's unknown.I really wonder what role this is... I can't find anything like it in the list of roles.
Quote from: Mr.Person
Oh, and if it makes anybody feel better, Alexhans has made himself less town due to the fact that he doesn't want to take sides in the me vs. Dakarian thing. "Oh, you're both town!" is as close to saying "I don't want to get involved!" as possible. (Even if it is true, which it might be)Bullshit man... I'm frigging posting what I think about everything... I just didn't have enough time.
And if you think Dakarian is scum. You're very probably wrong.
I nominate day-kill on Mr.Person.Ok... another one that just wants to kill off anyone... first me... now Mr.Person... Give a fucking reason, pretty please.
Quote from: Dakarian
Btw, your statement about Archangel sounds odd. Arc is the one that wants to kill of lurkersArch IS a lurker.
Hehe. Nice writing, Leafsnail!... so it IS free pm... this feels SO breakable...
Everyone should now PM their role to Webadict. Then we can see what he figures out.
Josh... do you really think Mr.Person's argumentation was disproportionate?
We are doing the SAME SHIT we always do in bay12... the thing that makes me leave once in a while and forget about this mafias... We always try to lynch ACTIVE people... Absurd! Lurkers get a free pass because they have no issues but whoever post some gets attacked and if he decides to defend his arguments he will be acted more and more until people think that "Oh! look, he keeps debating and trying to convince us... he must be scum". ::)
Quote from: Meph
Right now, though, I want to hear from Boksi and brothernature the most. Who do you think are scum? Who do you think is town at this point? What is your opinion of everything that happened the first time around for day 1?THIS!!! And add RedWarrior0 and Archagel.
why should I? You haven't even explained a thing.Actually Zai, everyone's vote is reset. Nobody besides me has a vote on anyone right now.
Do your thing Alexhans.
Vote Mr.Person.
And Mr.P is the second person you're trying to get quickly killed.
Reaaaaally? That's it??? he is acting odd? You're bandwaggoning a lot without much explanations. Why shouldnt I kill you, instead?Actually Zai, everyone's vote is reset. Nobody besides me has a vote on anyone right now.
Do your thing Alexhans.
Vote Mr.Person.
Sorry ToonyMan, that's just not going to cut it. Nice bandwagoning, btw.
You've been in my sights the whole game. You're acting really odd.
Quote from: Diakron
Alex: You would be my second choices as scum but you seem honestly repentive of you hammer, but that could be a ruse. Mr. P seems to defend you and it has been brought to my notice that this is a scumtell.WHAT is a scumtell? You don't know my allignment. You don't know his... He defended me. I'm defending him now. What do you make of it?
By the way... I'd rather have 20 agitated players than 10 mild players and 9 lurkers lynching the only agitated player and then sleeping their way to defeat.
Well, my reason for voting Alexhans was Mr. Person's defense of him. I found it very suspicious and he seems to be overreacting to a lot of things. Not frothing at the mouth, sure, but his overall writing style seems a little... agitated.Excuse me? Let me see if I have this right... You think Mr.Person defends me so I must be scum? Then you go and vote him? And why did you forget to explain this earlier?
Quote from: Boksi
Now, I'd also like you to remember that I don't have as much experience as most of you do, so my inexperience means I don't always make good decisions or arguments.go Ahead... play THE NEWBIE CARD!
Quote from: boksi
...That's just going to make you suspect I'm scum trying a "i'm new halp plz" ploy, isn't it?Yes. A proud newbie tries to overcome his newbness by always trying to convince people and learning from others.
Confirmed town:
webadict
Town reads:
chaoticjosh
Mr.Person
dakarian
Leaning town:
Mephansteras
Neutral:
Diakron
Zaithemaster
Most Scum is probably here:
ToonyMan
Archangel
Cheeetar
Pandarsenic
FireWarrior0
brothernature
Boksi
Post by: Cheeetar on September 25, 2009, 08:22:41 am
Post by: Alexhans on September 25, 2009, 08:26:26 am
Alex, I brang up a a good point about Pandar. He lied about the Archcherub role (sorta).I don't agree. But I was talking about why Dakarian would think that Mr.Person was defending Pandar when he was, in fact, questioning the flaws in your accusation. As I did too.
Anyway... is there anything else you wish to comment on?
Post by: Cheeetar on September 25, 2009, 08:42:23 am
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 25, 2009, 08:57:34 am
Quote from: Alex to me
Josh... do you really think Mr.Person's argumentation was disproportionate?
Yes, I do as a matter of fact.
In fact, I've been trying to see things your way, just to try to get some perspective, so I skimmed through the last few pages...
It started off with Dakarion gaving him a very slight poke, where he then became hostile. It's something he could have shrugged off very easily, but I think he felt the NEED to dispel suspicion, which is an urge I feel is much more present in scum than townies. Also note as he gets more hostile with each post, throwing more than one insult in the process.
It may just be that we're seeing things differently. I see him as scum since he's unduly aggressive and argumentative, while you see him as town because of it. Do I have that right?
Quote
We are doing the SAME SHIT we always do in bay12... the thing that makes me leave once in a while and forget about this mafias... We always try to lynch ACTIVE people... Absurd! Lurkers get a free pass because they have no issues but whoever post some gets attacked and if he decides to defend his arguments he will be acted more and more until people think that "Oh! look, he keeps debating and trying to convince us... he must be scum". ::)
This is one thing I really want to agree with you on though. We're so prone to getting swept up in the current debate, that we forget to drill people that aren't participating.
To this effect, if I may ask a blanket question to everyone, what does everyone think of this little list of Alex's?
Quote
Confirmed town:
webadict
Town reads:
chaoticjosh
Mr.Person
dakarian
Leaning town:
Mephansteras
Neutral:
Diakron
Zaithemaster
Most Scum is probably here:
ToonyMan
Archangel
Cheeetar
Pandarsenic
FireWarrior0
brothernature
Boksi
I have my opinions, but before I articulate them, I'd like to hear what some of you have to say.
I'm always a little uneasy when nobody is defending someone, but it could be a bus. Also: If Mr. Person is scum I'd say you were too. It might seem too obvious but I still think you would be scum if Person is.
May I ask you to elaborate on this a bit more?
Post by: Alexhans on September 25, 2009, 10:05:45 am
Quote from: Cheeetar
I'm always a little uneasy when nobody is defending someone, but it could be a bus.nodoby is defending someone? What's that supposed to mean? What could be a bus? You're being extremely cryptic here...
Quote
Also: If Mr. Person is scum I'd say you were too. It might seem too obvious but I still think you would be scum if Person is.You still have SO MUCH to learn... Pairing me and Mr.Person right now would be GREATLY underestimating our intelligence. I mean GREATLY. If I was in a scumteam with Mr.Person I wouldn't linked myself in such a way. You can be sure of it. Not on day 1 with so many people who can be as naive as you to think that if someone defends other person then they must be scum together...
If you wanted to accuse one of us buddying would be much more of an argument. Buddying is when scum tries to gain the trust of a townie by: expressing trust in him, agreeing with him, siding with him, whatever...
But you're all seem too shortsighted to think this kind of things... You prefer to believe in a world where mafia is active and defend each other in the open for everyone else to see... ::)
Why don't we play tic-tac-toe instead? So everyone can understand how the game really goes.
-----------------------------
Quote from: Josh
It started off with Dakarion gaving him a very slight poke, where he then became hostile. It's something he could have shrugged off very easily, but I think he felt the NEED to dispel suspicion, which is an urge I feel is much more present in scum than townies. Also note as he gets more hostile with each post, throwing more than one insult in the process.Don't Webadict and me do the same a lot? It's called Town Frustration. When someone attacks me with a stupid argument I feel the need to debate every single point to set things straight. It doesnt have to do with defending myself but to completely destroy their crappy argument :P (or at least give them my view of things).
Remember one thing. Scum usually tries to be friendly to everyone so no one grudge-attacks Them. Townies don't feel that way but they do often think, given the fact that they know their own innocence, that anyone who attacks them is scum setting them up.
Townie fights to death are common. Just look at Kingmakers Web vs Mr.Person (wich ended with both dead) or, in this game, me against web (Wich ended with webadict dead :D).
Quote from: Josh
It may just be that we're seeing things differently. I see him as scum since he's unduly aggressive and argumentative, while you see him as town because of it. Do I have that right?Pretty much. Yeah. Mr.Person scum is so much more passive agressive... Mild and cautious when he doesn't want to be spotted and attacking from the sidelines when he can safely do so.
Post by: dakarian on September 25, 2009, 10:21:19 am
This is why I asked for your reasons for thinking Person is town. Note that you are using meta game information from IRC that me and many others don't have. Without that, it looks like Person is a hyperactive scum that flings insults once accused. If he's town, though, he's doing the very thing you dislike-jumping on the active folks-while doing what I don't like-getting in the way of the scumhunt.
I'll need to do a new scan on Person to try to get a new read on him.
As for lurkers, there's one BIG reason why I disrupted your lurker hate: you have a daykill and already showed that you get trigger happy with it. You may be thinking of trying to dump it early so the scum won't steal it from you. I'm thinking it's a 'lynch' we can use on someone truely suspicious. You didn't give anyone the chance to say anything for or against Webadict. How would you feel if I did the same for Person: killing him off with a 1 shot the SECOND the day reset before you could give your WOT? I don't like quick kills like that.
Lastly, you've seen games die due to the lack of lurker hunting. I've seen games die DUE to lurker hunting: the town going after lurkers and 'OMG scumtell, KILL!' while the active scum pushed them forward. The games that I've both played and hosted all had active scum: some whispering in the background, others active and fighting with the town. Lurking is a null tell and lynches are for SCUM, not for punishing townies.
So do we ignore the lurkers? NO! Here's how to handle lurkers. I'll try (try =I'm having major RL problems right now so delays could show up) to do a scan of activity. I'll be looking for people who don't post at all, people who do noncontent posts and folks who seem to be just following the crowd. Once outed, we push em, HARD with votes and accusations. Make them actually SAY something: an attack, a defense, SOMETHING. If they don't post at all, we prod the mod because they may be AWOL. If they post, then we'll have content on them and can get some reads.
It's usually best to get everyone saying something Day 1. Don't forget, though, that lurking is a null tell: simply killing for that is no better than killing off those that steal the spotlight.
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 25, 2009, 11:35:00 am
Alex, I'm probably just a fuddy-duddy, but I'm not a big fan of posts with sarcasm deliberately inserted in. I don't like having to discern what you're serious about, and what you're just kidding about. Do you understand?
Also, is what Dakarion said about you drawing metagame knowledge from your IRC games true? You know I haven't played in forever, so I think that mentioning that might have been important...
Post by: Mephansteras on September 25, 2009, 11:47:33 am
Quote from: MephWhat if he's lying scum and he has a power that makes lynching him a bad idea for the town?Dude... This seems one stupid question... There's no game where scum can get lynched without losing... Otherwise... how would town win?
Ok, this is minor but I feel compelled to answer it. It's not a stupid question! This is a mafia with bizarre roles. We don't know that they are balanced and we don't know that the scum didn't get some neat power combination that makes lynching one of them early on a good thing for them. Besides, I've won games as scum by busing a teammate early on. So, yeah, lynching scum without thinking about it first can lead to a town loss. I'm just trying to avoid that.
We do weird stuff here at bay12, and I wasn't about to just jump on the 'lynch Josh because he tells us to' bandwagon carelessly. Since we had an easy way to confirm him, I thought it was worth the extra caution. It turned out that he was telling the truth and everything worked well, but we only know that in hindsight.
Anyway,
Confirmed town:
webadict - obviously
Town reads:
chaoticjosh - I agree. Giving the town a confirmed townie day 1 would be stupid as scum, since it's a proven way to help the town win.
Mr.Person - Not as sure...he's a bit jumpy. But he did give some good reasons for what he did (eventually) and he is pretty aggressive as town.
dakarian - Probably true. He seems to be putting in a good effort at scumhunting.
Leaning town:
Mephansteras - Well, I know I'm town.
Alexhans - This list matches reasonably well with my suspicions, so he's probably acting town. However, he's crafty so I'm not going to just accept him as town for giving us a nice list
Neutral:
Diakron - Yeah..he hasn't done much to sway me one way or the other.
Zaithemaster - I'm leaning slightly town on him so far. He's at least put out a good number of his town play-style tells.
Most Scum is probably here:
ToonyMan - Well, he is kind of crazy, which can make it hard to read him. But his bandwagoning without any explanation is a good cause for suspicion.
Archangel - I'm neutral on him so far. He's given some reasons for the votes he's given, although none of it was really new. Could be town, could just as easily be scum trying to fly under the radar.
Cheeetar - Also lying low. I'll need to read his posts again.
Pandarsenic - Also lying low. I'll need to read his posts again.
RedWarrior0 - Also lying low. I'll need to read his posts again.
brothernature - Lying low and hasn't said much of anything substantial in his posts. I'm leaning scum on him.
Boksi - I know he's inexperienced, but jumping on bandwagons without thinking things through for yourself? Not good. Leaning scum on him as well.
Ok, there are my thoughts on things. (In orange).
Mostly, I agree with Alex's list so far. I'm more cautious than him in a few places and less worried in others, but it's a good starting point. And I'd really like to hear everyone else's take on the list as well. Especially the people who've been quiet so far this game!
Post by: Leafsnail on September 25, 2009, 11:51:02 am
You immediately look towards the computer, which giving a votecount. The words projected in blood red on the wall read:
Quote
Mr.Person: chaoticjosh, ToonyMan, Diakron, Archangel, Boksi
Boksi: Zaithemaster
Post by: dakarian on September 25, 2009, 12:30:05 pm
WOT = Wall of Text. When a person's single post can fill your whole screen and you STILL need to scroll to read the rest, it's a wall of text. It's very hard to swallow, but can lead to some wonderful insights.
For the record, my 'powerful WOT' comment is meant to be a compliment.
Also: Meta-game information refers to using a person's past games to determine their alignment in this game. It's a viable option to help determine scum/towniness.
For example: I know Toony to leave lots of very VERY short posts and quick votes. He's a hard read do to his style. Based on my experience with him in a few games, though, I've seen a batch of craziness (null) and a few town tells based on his behavior. He has scumtells, but they aren't showing at the moment. Keep pushing him though just to make sure.
As for everyone else, I did a deep scan on a person's activity. I tried not to analyze too much on content and more aimed for how often their posts had content, were analytical, were aggressive, or were just following someone else. Feel free to double check my findings.
First off, the clearly active:
Alexhans
Mr. Person
They've all but lead the debate for a good while.
As for the others:
Chaoticjosh: stayed back a bit then charged in with his power role. After that, he's been active and hunting
Pandarsenic: Not much of any real hunting beyond the random vote. Comments, but doesn't really scumhunt
Toonyman: Nonanalytical but aggressive.
Zaithmaster: very analytical, and trying to aim at a sideliner.
Mephansteras: Followed me along the hunt for Person, and is now lurker hunting. Still need to see him attack someone that's not so easy meat.
Archangel: Nothing of content early on, later on following the pack.
Diakron: Similar to Arch until after the reset: the recent vote sounds like it has more thought.
Cheeetar: Only attack has been on Panda's reading of his 'known' role. Nothing beyond that and nothing useful after the reset
RedWarrior0: Nothing much at all. Need much more content.
brothernature: Similar to Redwarrior: very little content.
Boksi: Even less than the prior two due to not joining in on the randomvote.
Thus, in response:
We have four people who have very little content: Boksi, brothernature, redwarrior, and archangel.
Meth is lurker hunting at the moment, so once we out the lurkers he'll show himself more as well.
Panda is just about active lurking.
Myself, I tend to see a lot of mafia hug between 'active' and 'inactive'. They don't like to be right in the spotlight in Day 1 but they know not to lurk. It leads to them throwing accusations about till they think they can pin the kill on someone without the town blaming them for it. Thus, activitywise, Panda should be in my eyesights.
Mr. Person, I'm now unsure about you. That's not enough to call for your death anymore. I'll have to wait for more stuff from you before I can confirm either way.
Pandasenic. Hey Panda. What's up? How are you feeling about what's going on. Since you don't remember why you want Person dead I imagine you have a new suspect lined up.
Post by: Diakron on September 25, 2009, 01:12:02 pm
I dont get why we all have decided to post these WOT but it makes my head hurt :(
hmmm so much has been said and to littled hunting has been done for me to say anything new. (might as well post this and show i'm on)
Post by: dakarian on September 25, 2009, 01:22:12 pm
I'm WORSE when I'm analyzing. :P
I'll sum up a part that is important to you though:
Daikron: the noncontent posts are NOT helpful to your cause. Stop the silly comments and go hunt someone. You didn't do much of that in the first part of day 1 and, although you did better after the reset, you still aren't hunting enough.
So go hunt, before the hunters hunt you.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2009, 01:54:05 pm
My thoughts so far:
ToonyMan - Me.
chaoticjosh - Helped Town a lot by giving us a confirmed Town member, but I feel his posting habits and expressions are off this game. Still not decided.
Pandarsenic - Throwing Town off by being crazy (oh the irony) and lying about his known role, enough to raise some eyebrows.
Zaithemaster - I agree with the Boksi thing. Being helpful.
Mephansteras - Going to lurk, but says before hand, so meh.
Archangel - Usual Archangel is usual, but this time with longer posts!
Diakron - Actually I think he's doing really good this time around, with his nice posts, but they're giving off scum tells.
Mr.Person - Well, I am VOTING him right now, but I AM because he is being highly defensive. SCUM TELL. Number two on my list.
Cheeetar - Cheeetar is good in my book this game. Not aggressive enough though.
dakarian - Being helpful and posting lots of stuff, all for me to read!
webadict - Duh.
FireWarrior0 - Doesn't look to be acting off, not getting good reads off him though.
brothernature - I'm split between newbiness and scum nemesis.
Boksi - Number three on my scum list. Acting INSANELY suspicious. Look at this quote!!:
Anyway, I seem to be overly fond of bandwagoning, so I'm voting Mr. Person now.WUT
Alexhans - Being his usual serious self, he does this both scum and town, but the reason I believe him to be scum is he INSANELY BAD judgement on Webadict and the fact that he's defending Mr.Person, number one on my list of scum.
So in summary: (I won't be on the list :-P)
CONFIRMED TOWN:
webadict
TOWN:
dakarian
Zaithemaster
Cheeetar
Diakron
IFFY:
chaoticjosh
Mephansteras
Archangel
FireWarrior0
brothernature
MAFIA: (yes I know there isn't this many)
Pandarsenic
Mr.Person
Boksi
Alexhans
Post by: Mr.Person on September 25, 2009, 01:59:53 pm
ToonyMan would be in a new category I call "Scum" along with Archangel. Archangel, why are you lurking and hopping on bandwagons without explanation?
FAKEDIT: Hmm... gimme some time to digest that list, ToonyMan. I still think you're scum, because your list is weird. I would like Alexhans to daykill you, honestly. You're pretty much the one person I'm most certain is scum. For instance, why do you trust Cheeetar so much? He's barely posted at all. Also, you're trusting a player who's giving off scumtells? That makes no sense, care to explain how that works in ToonyLand?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2009, 02:07:31 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on September 25, 2009, 02:08:57 pm
Mephansteras - Going to lurk, but says before hand, so meh.
I didn't say I was going to lurk (and I haven't been). I said I'm going to hold off on voting for a while while I watch what's going on. There is a lot of stuff going on and a lot of people who've been too quiet.
And, to Dakarian, note that I'm not voting for the lurkers just for lurking. I'm just trying to get them to talk so I can make an intelligent vote. That said, I'm going to vote for Boksi for his jumping onto the Mr.Person bandwagon, knowing its bandwagoning, and not giving a really good reason for doing so.
@Boksi: If you're willing to vote him you must have reasons. Spell them out. Joining a bandwagon with a good reason is fine (we have to lynch someone), but just jumping on board without any good evidence is bad news. And don't assume we know why you're voting for him, spell it out. Otherwise it looks like you're scum going 'Oh, easy town lynch! I'll just vote the guy everyone else is voting and no one will suspect me'.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2009, 02:11:30 pm
Mephansteras - Going to lurk, but says before hand, so meh.I didn't say I was going to lurk (and I haven't been). I said I'm going to hold off on voting for a while while I watch what's going on. There is a lot of stuff going on and a lot of people who've been too quiet.
Not voting is SCUMMY. But you just did so AWESOME.
Post by: webadict on September 25, 2009, 03:26:48 pm
MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Post by: Mephansteras on September 25, 2009, 03:30:53 pm
Post by: webadict on September 25, 2009, 03:38:44 pm
Meaningless questions?Like that one.
Post by: Alexhans on September 25, 2009, 03:41:46 pm
Quote from: Toonyman
Pandarsenic - Throwing Town off by being crazy (oh the irony) and lying about his known role, enough to raise some eyebrows.Toonyman... You say that Pandarsenic lied about his known role... HOW? Why didn't you say so before?
Is being crazy a scumtell?
Quote from: toony
Diakron - Actually I think he's doing really good this time around, with his nice posts, but they're giving off scum tells.What scumtells?
Quote from: Toony
Mr.Person - Well, I am VOTING him right now, but I AM because he is being highly defensive. SCUM TELL. Number two on my list.Keyword here is "BUT". He says he is voting Mr.Person and says BUT... I have an excuse. Dont blame me if I mislynch him.
Quote from: Toonyman
Cheeetar - Cheeetar is good in my book this game. Not aggressive enough though.Why?
Toony... do you think that rushing things is scummy? Like when Mr.Person voted for a day shortening?
--------------------
mmm... Meph gives that sort of laid back and mild feeling... But I thought it was his moderate personality. Can anyone link me to both a Town Meph and a Scum Meph game?
Post by: Mephansteras on September 25, 2009, 03:45:33 pm
So far I've asked Mr.Person about his actions (which he eventually gave answers to) and asked the lurkers to actually show up and give us posts with substance to them. I fail to see how that's meaningless.
As for being laid-back...yeah. I usually am laid back day 1. Especially since we're in a much better position now then we were before Josh used his power.
I was going after Mr.Person, but I'm less inclined to think he's definitely scum at this point. No one else has given off huge scum-vibes except for our lurking population, and I'm trying to get them to speak some more so we can actually analyze what they're doing.
@Alex: Look at the Vote Mafias. I was town Round 1&2 and scum Round 3.
Post by: Boksi on September 25, 2009, 05:31:41 pm
Compare my behavior if you want. I was scum in Mind & Magic Mafia 2 and Ridiculous Mafia 2. I can't be bothered to do this analysis stuff.
But on to Meph's question. Why did I bandwagon Mr. Person? It's a question which I can't truly answer myself. I guess I didn't like his overzealousness. I mean, he seems like the most aggressive person in this game, well outpacing Alexhans. But maybe that's because I don't spend as much time poring over this thread like you guys?
Post by: Mr.Person on September 25, 2009, 05:39:12 pm
Hm. I guess I don't have this burning drive compelling me to read and write massive walls of text and analyze people based on their current behavior, future behavior and behavior in relation to current knowledge and other people's behavior. Instead I make hasty decisions based on hunches. Hee, I'm being a bad player. How amusing. Or not, if you take a freaking text game on the internet seriously enough to hold grudges, but I don't think you do. Do you?
Compare my behavior if you want. I was scum in Mind & Magic Mafia 2 and Ridiculous Mafia 2. I can't be bothered to do this analysis stuff.
But on to Meph's question. Why did I bandwagon Mr. Person? It's a question which I can't truly answer myself. I guess I didn't like his overzealousness. I mean, he seems like the most aggressive person in this game, well outpacing Alexhans. But maybe that's because I don't spend as much time poring over this thread like you guys?
That's fine, just one small detail. Why, exactly, is aggressiveness scummy?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2009, 05:40:08 pm
blah blah blah not serious blah blah
THIS IS SERIOUS BETWEEN THE LIFE AND DEATH OF US BOTH.
And yes, how is aggression scummy?!
Post by: Boksi on September 25, 2009, 05:48:12 pm
Hm. I guess I don't have this burning drive compelling me to read and write massive walls of text and analyze people based on their current behavior, future behavior and behavior in relation to current knowledge and other people's behavior. Instead I make hasty decisions based on hunches. Hee, I'm being a bad player. How amusing. Or not, if you take a freaking text game on the internet seriously enough to hold grudges, but I don't think you do. Do you?
Compare my behavior if you want. I was scum in Mind & Magic Mafia 2 and Ridiculous Mafia 2. I can't be bothered to do this analysis stuff.
But on to Meph's question. Why did I bandwagon Mr. Person? It's a question which I can't truly answer myself. I guess I didn't like his overzealousness. I mean, he seems like the most aggressive person in this game, well outpacing Alexhans. But maybe that's because I don't spend as much time poring over this thread like you guys?
That's fine, just one small detail. Why, exactly, is aggressiveness scummy?
Well, aggression isn't exactly scummy... How do I put this? Well, I really can't point to anything concrete. There's something about his style, especially early on, that just rubs me the wrong way.
Well. I have to stabilize my sleep patterns and it's almost eleven, so...
Post by: Mr.Person on September 25, 2009, 06:07:28 pm
blah blah blah not serious blah blah
THIS IS SERIOUS BETWEEN THE LIFE AND DEATH OF US BOTH.
And yes, how is aggression scummy?!
Alright, smarty pants, then why were you voting me?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2009, 06:12:18 pm
blah blah blah not serious blah blah
THIS IS SERIOUS BETWEEN THE LIFE AND DEATH OF US BOTH.
And yes, how is aggression scummy?!
Alright, smarty pants, then why were you voting me?
Mr. Super Defensive SCUM Man, that's why dude.
Post by: webadict on September 25, 2009, 06:26:52 pm
That's a useless example, web. Can you point out any questions I've been asking people that are actually meaningless?You've also got this thing where you sound like a complete jerkface when you're scum. Kinda like chaoticjosh. I dunno what it is, it's kind of like an implied thing when I read your posts, and that's what I see.
So far I've asked Mr.Person about his actions (which he eventually gave answers to) and asked the lurkers to actually show up and give us posts with substance to them. I fail to see how that's meaningless.
As for being laid-back...yeah. I usually am laid back day 1. Especially since we're in a much better position now then we were before Josh used his power.
I was going after Mr.Person, but I'm less inclined to think he's definitely scum at this point. No one else has given off huge scum-vibes except for our lurking population, and I'm trying to get them to speak some more so we can actually analyze what they're doing.
@Alex: Look at the Vote Mafias. I was town Round 1&2 and scum Round 3.
Post by: Mr.Person on September 25, 2009, 06:29:22 pm
blah blah blah not serious blah blah
THIS IS SERIOUS BETWEEN THE LIFE AND DEATH OF US BOTH.
And yes, how is aggression scummy?!
Alright, smarty pants, then why were you voting me?
Mr. Super Defensive SCUM Man, that's why dude.
Riiiiight, I defended myself, I MUST be scum! That makes perfect sense. Why is being defensive scummy?
Post by: webadict on September 25, 2009, 06:49:37 pm
Being overly defensive is scummy.blah blah blah not serious blah blah
THIS IS SERIOUS BETWEEN THE LIFE AND DEATH OF US BOTH.
And yes, how is aggression scummy?!
Alright, smarty pants, then why were you voting me?
Mr. Super Defensive SCUM Man, that's why dude.
Riiiiight, I defended myself, I MUST be scum! That makes perfect sense. Why is being defensive scummy?
Post by: Alexhans on September 25, 2009, 06:56:33 pm
Webadict... It really depends on how does one defend oneself and if one just defends or tries to scumhunt.
Boksi... PLEASE, don't try to derail the arguments. You don't need to post lots of text to post content but you DO need to explain your hunches. Surely SOMETHING triggers them.
Remember that you also bandwaggoned me after Toonyman voted for me without much explanation. You were both times going for the seemengly "easy" lynches.
Quote from: boksi
Instead I make hasty decisions based on hunches. Hee, I'm being a bad player. How amusing. Or not, if you take a freaking text game on the internet seriously enough to hold grudges, but I don't think you do. Do you?This is a poor attempt to attack people based on their habits or what? You ARE in this game... You can enjoy it and still try to win. Don't try to minimize the importance of it so as to get a free card to be anti-town.
If you don't post much or spend much time online... Post relevant stuff when you do.
And that post could be seemed as agressive, you know...? Should we lynch you for that?
Finally... Are you voting likely scum or just people who's playstyles you dislike?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 25, 2009, 07:09:07 pm
Quote from: ToonymanPandarsenic - Throwing Town off by being crazy (oh the irony) and lying about his known role, enough to raise some eyebrows.Toonyman... You say that Pandarsenic lied about his known role... HOW? Why didn't you say so before?
Is being crazy a scumtell?Quote from: toonyDiakron - Actually I think he's doing really good this time around, with his nice posts, but they're giving off scum tells.What scumtells?Quote from: ToonyMr.Person - Well, I am VOTING him right now, but I AM because he is being highly defensive. SCUM TELL. Number two on my list.Keyword here is "BUT". He says he is voting Mr.Person and says BUT... I have an excuse. Dont blame me if I mislynch him.Quote from: ToonymanCheeetar - Cheeetar is good in my book this game. Not aggressive enough though.Why?
Toony... do you think that rushing things is scummy? Like when Mr.Person voted for a day shortening?
Pandarsenic did lie about his known role, go back in this thread! I have said before!
Diakron plays differently (like us all) and I generally see his posts as scummy, like being completely I don't even know weird. I'm pretty sure it's just because we all act differently and he fits the bill for who I see as doing scummy behavior. Unfortunately, he is usually town and doesn't mean any harm.
Hammer-kill Mr.Person anytime now. I mean seriously, why do you think he's town so much, because I think he's scum? :-P
Cheeetar is giving off town-vibes, perfectly reasonable (for now). Rushing things is scummy, need time to think darn it!
Post by: webadict on September 25, 2009, 07:51:05 pm
Post by: Alexhans on September 25, 2009, 07:53:09 pm
You don't even explain your reasons for saying someone (cheeetar) is town... You just repeat that he does.
I explained why I think Mr.Person is town. thoroughtly.
Quote from: Toony
Rushing things is scummy, need time to think darn it!How's this consistent with your pushing on the hammer kill? Are you worried about what Mr.P might say?
And, web is right, Pandar DID NOT lie.
Post by: webadict on September 25, 2009, 08:14:43 pm
Post by: Diakron on September 25, 2009, 08:16:21 pm
I was sure that he said 4 scum in his flavor text and all we are doing is sitting on 1 guy and floating around him... i was just wondering if we should try to find the other scum instead of going after just the one.
WA: who would you chose to be the scumteam and why would you? (if you where town and if you where scum if you dont mind)
Toony: WHO THE FU*K is firewarrior? i thought Redwarrior was his name or did i miss read something???
Right now I have to say that quite a few people have said they wanted to get rid of Mr. P and now suddenly they are changing their minds. (looks at beginner mafia 2) ya that tactic worked well for me and panda... (takes a second in self-contemplation about winning that game) ya i'm not going to fall for that after i use it.
Post by: Diakron on September 25, 2009, 08:18:06 pm
See, the problem with my role is that in its explanation, it says I have to convince everyone I don't have a role, instead of saying that I don't. That's why it's a bad phrasing.
i thought it said "Good luck convincing everyone that you dont" or something similar and have the heavy hand of sarcasm dripping all over it...
Post by: webadict on September 25, 2009, 08:22:16 pm
It does. It's just fluff.See, the problem with my role is that in its explanation, it says I have to convince everyone I don't have a role, instead of saying that I don't. That's why it's a bad phrasing.
i thought it said "Good luck convincing everyone that you dont" or something similar and have the heavy hand of sarcasm dripping all over it...
ok excuse my sudden return to newbiness but.....I've got a better question for you: Why the heck does it matter who I want on my team? How about sticking to the here and now? Or are you trying to meta-game me into boredom.
I was sure that he said 4 scum in his flavor text and all we are doing is sitting on 1 guy and floating around him... i was just wondering if we should try to find the other scum instead of going after just the one.
WA: who would you chose to be the scumteam and why would you? (if you where town and if you where scum if you dont mind)
Toony: WHO THE FU*K is firewarrior? i thought Redwarrior was his name or did i miss read something???
Right now I have to say that quite a few people have said they wanted to get rid of Mr. P and now suddenly they are changing their minds. (looks at beginner mafia 2) ya that tactic worked well for me and panda... (takes a second in self-contemplation about winning that game) ya i'm not going to fall for that after i use it.
Also, everyone, Mephansteras is scum. Alexhans, if you're going to hammer someone DON'T HAMMER HIM!
Hammer... I dunno. Whoever you think is scum.
Post by: Mr.Person on September 25, 2009, 08:24:31 pm
Also, everyone, Mephansteras is scum. Alexhans, if you're going to hammer someone DON'T HAMMER HIM!
Hammer... I dunno. Whoever you think is scum.
Wait... what? You think Meph is scum but you don't want Alex to day kill him?
Post by: Diakron on September 25, 2009, 08:39:49 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on September 25, 2009, 08:51:31 pm
I want ToonyMan to be day killed, since he's not been cooperative and has been trying to avoid my questions. He's also not acting like his town self. He also hopped on my bandwagon without saying why, his reason for voting me turned out to be quite bad, and he won't say who else he thinks is scum.
Post by: Archangel on September 25, 2009, 09:25:09 pm
Confirmed town:My comments are in brown. I'll try to expand upon them if asked.
webadict - No need to comment.
Town reads:
chaoticjosh - Has given us a confirmed townie, something he'd be too smart to do if he were scum.
Mr.Person - I've already given my opinion about him, but it has weakened a bit.
dakarian - No comment.
Leaning town:
Mephansteras - No comment.
Neutral:
Diakron - No comment.
Zaithemaster - No comment.
Most Scum is probably here:
ToonyMan - I agree. He's saying nothing in short posts and hasn't been answering anything directed at him.
Archangel - I understand why you put me here, and don't blame you. I'm probably an incurable lurker.
Cheeetar - No comment.
Pandarsenic - No comment.
FireWarrior0 - I'm fairly sure he's a candidate for a ChaoticJim NK. Needs to come out and do something.
brothernature - Strikes me as suspect, but that feeling has no discernible cause at the moment.
Boksi - Also seems suspect. I'm fairly sure he's another candidate for a ChaoticJim NK. Needs to give better reasons for his actions.
Post by: Archangel on September 25, 2009, 09:28:28 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on September 25, 2009, 09:40:32 pm
I wouldn't be surprised if a role named after me was another one based off lurking.
So I need another post.
Archangel, why are dakarian, meph, diakron, zai, cheeetar, and pandar "no comment"? What exactly do you want me to come out and do, other than post and vote my suspicions?
Post by: Archangel on September 25, 2009, 09:47:29 pm
Archangel, why are dakarian, meph, diakron, zai, cheeetar, and pandar "no comment"? What exactly do you want me to come out and do, other than post and vote my suspicions?I haven't got an opinion about any of them.
What exactly do you want me to come out and do, other than post and vote my suspicions?Uh, just talking is enough right now.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 25, 2009, 10:29:16 pm
Honestly. Please.
Post by: Archangel on September 25, 2009, 10:34:43 pm
Why am I most likely scum without any explanation?You asking me or Alexhans?
Honestly. Please.
Post by: Zai on September 25, 2009, 10:45:35 pm
Post by: dakarian on September 26, 2009, 12:42:55 am
Hmm, for the daykill, Although I want to pressure Panda more, I want more pressure on him and not kill him off yet.
Speaking of which, PANDA! Enough with the nonposts and hunt someone!
Toony, meanwhile, still smells unscummy. IIRC, he jumps votes and acts more random when he has something to hide. He's been on Person constantly, even when others (like myself) have pulled away. He was the same in Beginner 2 when he was town.
Boksi, I'm tempted to say he's an Unhelpful Townie. His additude sings out "I just don't give that much of a care". I believe he's being honest with that, which I doubt any scum would bother to sound. He's going to be unhelpful to us as the town, but meh.
Arch, all you're doing at the moment is going off other people's ideas. Do you truely have no one to go after at this point? Have I truely been giving nothing but null tells to you?
You aren't passive lurking anymore it seems. You're now on the sidelines with side comments of following the pack.
So right now, I say Archangel should be our Daykill. He's not being aggressive, he's active lurking at times and follow the leader at other times.
Daykill: Archangel
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 26, 2009, 01:11:49 am
Post by: Archangel on September 26, 2009, 01:32:41 am
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 26, 2009, 01:53:29 am
Oh, shoot. My post count for the day got reset.
I wouldn't be surprised if a role named after me was another one based off lurking.
So I need another post.
RedWarrior. This might seem petty of me, but I get this weird vibe that you're only posting to avoid retribution. You want all the benefits of posting, but you don't actually want to play with the rest of us.
And Pandar, your 'don't look at me I'm too busy for you guys' attitude is, frankly, disruptive. Everyone's prodding you for a response, but you won't even bother to pacify them.
Toon, I'm a stickler for the rules, you're probably aware of this, so your post where you graded everyone's scumminess with color left you making alot of people Red. Red is also how we vote. This means it's possible, if Leafsnail were so inclined, to interpret your post as meaning you're voting for Alexhans, since he was the last name in your post. I take it this was purposeful?
Post by: dakarian on September 26, 2009, 01:59:22 am
What we ARE asking is for more than just a 'he looks a little bad'.
If he looks odd, ask the person some questions about the issue. pressure them.
If they look scummy, accuse them, make them lose their cool.
If you are SURE they are scum, then either vote or request Alex to daykill them. Just be sure to be able to say WHY.
You don't need to throw up walls of deep analysis of everyone. But at least you could follow up on your gut do a LITTLE reading of their past posts, and attack them for it.
@ arch. We can't kill three people. Which one are you willing to bet your life on to kill? If none of them, mind finding some reason why your gut is saying those three look bad?
Without using someone ELSE'S argument?
Post by: Archangel on September 26, 2009, 02:09:42 am
Post by: Cheeetar on September 26, 2009, 02:12:52 am
Quote from: CheeetarI'm always a little uneasy when nobody is defending someone, but it could be a bus.nodoby is defending someone? What's that supposed to mean? What could be a bus? You're being extremely cryptic here...
Scum know their team mates. I reason that they want to keep their team mates, and would not like them lynched. Thus, I find it strange that nobody was defending Mr. Person, as if he was scum some people would be trying to. However: it could be a bus in that scum want to get seen as town by voting off a scum person. Also, now that some people have removed their votes from Mr. Person (I think?) it could have just been a plan to vote for him and then unvote before the day ended, to deflect suspicion from themselves.
Quote from: ToonymanPandarsenic - Throwing Town off by being crazy (oh the irony) and lying about his known role, enough to raise some eyebrows.Toonyman... You say that Pandarsenic lied about his known role... HOW? Why didn't you say so before?
Is being crazy a scumtell?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Being crazy could be an attempt at refuge in audacity or something like that. 'He couldn't be scum. A scum wouldn't draw attention to himself by using caps and lots of exclamation marks. He's too obvious.'
Post by: dakarian on September 26, 2009, 02:55:48 am
Scum know their team mates. I reason that they want to keep their team mates, and would not like them lynched. Thus, I find it strange that nobody was defending Mr. Person, as if he was scum some people would be trying to. However: it could be a bus in that scum want to get seen as town by voting off a scum person. Also, now that some people have removed their votes from Mr. Person (I think?) it could have just been a plan to vote for him and then unvote before the day ended, to deflect suspicion from themselves.
This is an example of WIFOM.
"Scum should be defending Person"
But that's what they want you to think!
"The scum are actually bussing Person"
But that's what they want you to think!
"The scum just voted to fake suspicion on him and pulled back before the lynch"
Such things confuse the town, since it leaves all scenerios open. If you want to go into theory, CHOOSE one theory and stick with it.
It's dangerous to try to link people together this early on anyway. I got burned that way in Beginner 1. Best to take people at an individual level and, when we find scum, we can start to link them up.
Quote from: ToonymanPandarsenic - Throwing Town off by being crazy (oh the irony) and lying about his known role, enough to raise some eyebrows.Toonyman... You say that Pandarsenic lied about his known role... HOW? Why didn't you say so before?
Is being crazy a scumtell?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Being crazy could be an attempt at refuge in audacity or something like that. 'He couldn't be scum. A scum wouldn't draw attention to himself by using caps and lots of exclamation marks. He's too obvious.'
[/quote]
The whole "miswriting the role" is really reaching as far as scumtells go. The entire point is that games where everyone gets a 'known role' start off with everyone demanding for those roles. Web adict wasn't given a known role and, thus, would have to prove to us that he didn't have one. The insinuation ISN'T that he had a known role but that it would be hell in a handbasket for us to believe that he didn't have a known role.
Panda isn't exactly the towniest person around, but lynching him for this is just silly. The yelling thing, meanwhile, smells of WIFOM from Panda as you say. Thinking him ugly for THAT makes more sense.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 26, 2009, 03:02:26 am
Post by: dakarian on September 26, 2009, 04:41:35 am
You are ArchCherub. Long hated for constant lurking, you now seek to prove 'em all wrong! Unfortunately, the other players are weary of you, and have slapped a penalty on you. You will not get a known role. Good luck convincing the other players that this is the case.
Post by: Leafsnail on September 26, 2009, 04:44:07 am
Post by: Archangel on September 26, 2009, 04:48:15 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 26, 2009, 04:48:26 am
Yes, he would have to prove he didn't know one. But why write that? Why not just say simply 'he didn't know a role'? One is his role, and one is something he would have to do. It was a conscious thing to say he would have to convince us, not simply bad wording or naturally saying it.
Take your semantics, shove them up your ass, and find a real reason to vote for me.
kthxbai
Post by: dakarian on September 26, 2009, 05:08:25 am
Note that Panda gets the same Role text for the 'known role' as Web does for having the role. The 'convincing others' came from that part of the text. Panda just gave a cut down version of the text.
In other words:
You will not get a known role. Good luck convincing the other players that this is the case. -> He has to convince others he has no known role.
Considering that Web is town, WHY would Panda mess with the role text? Since Web had the actual role, there's nothing for Scum Panda to gain for attempting to confuse us with an altered 'known role claim'. The whole 'two people know the role' trick along with each person having one role makes sure that the mafia can't do anything to manipulate the claims (note that me asking for confirmation for the Cobrarsenic role was a small thing made overblown by Mr. Person).
I've seen Panda tear a town inside out as scum. He's skilled. If he were to do something like that, it would have to be for a big gain. What would he gain as scum that would match the risk?
The point to all this: Stop getting stuck on one questionable bit of evidence. Panda is right here now. Go question him. Get more stuff out of him. Sticking to just one thing will just leave you tunnelvisioned, which is deadly for town.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 26, 2009, 05:10:56 am
And indeed, I am here (though I'm tired and may not be around for long). By all means, question me.
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 26, 2009, 05:24:32 am
Pandasenic. Hey Panda. What's up? How are you feeling about what's going on. Since you don't remember why you want Person dead I imagine you have a new suspect lined up.
It's the least you could do.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 26, 2009, 05:41:26 am
2) Mr.Person appears to be trying to link himself to other people for some reason?
3) Mr.Person jumped on what I now consider to be a legit point by Dakarian.
4) Dakarian's not dumb enough to try such a weak attempt against a confirmed townie.
5) I need to avoid letting Dak's defense of me (and compliments) cloud my judgment - defending townies is a simple scum tactic made all the easier by scum's knowledge of alignments.
I'm suspicious of Cheeetar - I don't understand why he would stand so firmly by such weak "evidence." He should know better. Anyone should know better, really.
As for my silliness - anyone who has played with me knows I run a much more tightly controlled scum game; I refuse to leave any slack, because I enjoy playing scum more. I'm more thorough, more thoughtful.
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 26, 2009, 05:52:40 am
As for my silliness - anyone who has played with me knows I run a much more tightly controlled scum game; I refuse to leave any slack, because I enjoy playing scum more. I'm more thorough, more thoughtful.
There are some points worth questioning, but I think this is a particularly egregious one.
I see this as a painfully weak defense of your behavior. This is because, in my mind, you're using perceived metagame knowledge of yourself to argue that you aren't scum, which feels out of place. It feels out of place because this is the type of thing other people would use to defend you, as opposed to you using to defend yourself.
It's fallacious and contrived, is what I'm trying to say.
Post by: dakarian on September 26, 2009, 05:54:03 am
@ Pandar
Don't be so fast with that bit about me. I just don't like the whole "He messed with the role text" argument that Cheetar is betting the farm on.
"I" poked at you for not really doing much scumhunting lately. Your analysis post isn't much better since there's no "that person is scum" ending. Even your suspicion of Cheetar is a 'soft accusation'. What I have against you isn't enough to lynch or daykill, but more pressure on you (NEW pressure) would help.
Btw, declaring your own meta-game ruins the town tell. Now that I know you know how your scum game works, I know that you can mess with it to hide better. That actually adds to the argument that you are acting odd to push suspicion away from you.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 26, 2009, 05:59:49 am
Besides, it's a townie thing to do to point out that possibility. *WIFOMsplosion*
No, but honestly... Cheeetar, I can't judge whether he should be missing something this obvious or not. I think he might be scum, but I'm willing to bet our day's lynch on Mr.Person being scum before I'll put Cheeetar on the chopping block.
Vote is in case I forgot too earlier.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 26, 2009, 06:00:50 am
Post by: Alexhans on September 26, 2009, 07:28:11 am
Quote from: Pandar
No, but honestly... Cheeetar, I can't judge whether he should be missing something this obvious or not. I think he might be scum, but I'm willing to bet our day's lynch on Mr.Person being scum before I'll put Cheeetar on the chopping block.Why "are you willing to be on Mr.Person being scum"?
Your waggon hop is actually no better than Boksi's or Archangel's...
anyway... I'm leaving to a code camp event (I'm going to find out if Microsoft is scum :P) soon so I'll just remind you guys that
I CAN ONLY HAMMER KILL THE PLAYER WHO IS LEADING THE VOTES!
As it stands. That's clearly Mr.Person. Who I'm probably not gonna kill. I'm gonna let you guys lynch him and be done with it.
Also, those who want me to kill Mr.Person... If I do... who do we lynch, then? Because we are not gonna have much time left to decide. Will Mr.Person's flip greatly affect your suspicions?
See ya.
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 26, 2009, 08:13:17 am
Also, those who want me to kill Mr.Person... If I do... who do we lynch, then? Because we are not gonna have much time left to decide. Will Mr.Person's flip greatly affect your suspicions?
See ya.
Yes, Mr.Person's flip WILL greatly effect my suspicions. You see Alex, there's a viewpoint I don't think you've addressed properly: the possibility that YOU'RE scum.
Ever since I learned of your ability to daykill, I've been worried of your alignment, and for good reason. Without hesitation, you used your daykill on WA. I'll admit that I also thought he was suspicious, but it felt very odd how one of your justifications was, paraphrased "To use it early, because a scum would hold it back for lylo", which I found odd, since, while you were honest about it, you clearly knew the ramifications of a scum holding this power, and you showed marked interest in not appearing suspicious...
Now, with this debacle with Mr.Person, you're pretty much outright refusing to kill him. Your justification for this is based on your metagame knowledge of him, and while I don't want to be rude, that still seems a bit flimsy to me. You then say that if you and him were paired together as scum, you wouldn't dare be so bold as to actually defend him, citing that 'you're too smart for that', which also seems flimsy.
Now, this has me a bit... curious. You see Alex, you're a really tough read and a good strategist, and with a role as good as yours, I'd go as far as to say that determining your alignment is actually more important than determining Mr.Person's. So I'm very curious as to what Mr.Person's alignment is, as it'll greatly effect my suspicions of you.
Do you understand?
Of course, if you still refuse, might I ask who you'd prefer to use your power on?
Post by: Cheeetar on September 26, 2009, 08:23:36 am
I was confused as to why you worded it that way. It seemed a conscious choice to word it that way, so I wondered if you had a motive for wording it that way.
Post by: webadict on September 26, 2009, 08:46:24 am
Well, it's fairly role related.Also, everyone, Mephansteras is scum. Alexhans, if you're going to hammer someone DON'T HAMMER HIM!
Hammer... I dunno. Whoever you think is scum.
Wait... what? You think Meph is scum but you don't want Alex to day kill him?
You know what's funny: No one is listening to me, the confirmed townie, and are rather more focused on yourselves. Why is that? Why is no one asking me questions about people?
Hmm? Or are you just not going to care?
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 26, 2009, 08:52:20 am
Well, it's fairly role related.Also, everyone, Mephansteras is scum. Alexhans, if you're going to hammer someone DON'T HAMMER HIM!
Hammer... I dunno. Whoever you think is scum.
Wait... what? You think Meph is scum but you don't want Alex to day kill him?
You know what's funny: No one is listening to me, the confirmed townie, and are rather more focused on yourselves. Why is that? Why is no one asking me questions about people?
Hmm? Or are you just not going to care?
I'm here WA. Can you explain again why Meph is scum?
Do you have any opinions on other people?
Post by: webadict on September 26, 2009, 08:56:51 am
I did. He plays the Questionnaire Game as scum, and that's what he's doing. He's also got a laid-back attitude, which is also something he does. Funny thing is, in Vote Mafia 3, I made him scum to watch what he does, in the case I ever am against him. Yes, I'm just that evil. And I get a small feeling (Not as pronounced, but it's there) that he's scum.Well, it's fairly role related.Also, everyone, Mephansteras is scum. Alexhans, if you're going to hammer someone DON'T HAMMER HIM!
Hammer... I dunno. Whoever you think is scum.
Wait... what? You think Meph is scum but you don't want Alex to day kill him?
You know what's funny: No one is listening to me, the confirmed townie, and are rather more focused on yourselves. Why is that? Why is no one asking me questions about people?
Hmm? Or are you just not going to care?
I'm here WA. Can you explain again why Meph is scum?
Do you have any opinions on other people?
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 26, 2009, 09:07:18 am
Do you have any other hunches? Because you're in the most perfect position to lord over everyone, and I'm surprised you have limited your lording.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2009, 09:29:17 am
Also, to avoid any confusion with my vote:
Unvote.
Vote Mr.Person.
Post by: webadict on September 26, 2009, 09:40:43 am
Post by: Diakron on September 26, 2009, 11:11:57 am
Also, those who want me to kill Mr.Person... If I do... who do we lynch, then? Because we are not gonna have much time left to decide. Will Mr.Person's flip greatly affect your suspicions?
See ya.
Yes, Mr.Person's flip WILL greatly effect my suspicions. You see Alex, there's a viewpoint I don't think you've addressed properly: the possibility that YOU'RE scum.
Exactly what i said to everyone when i was accused of attempting to derail. We should not get so involved with Mr. P as to forget that alexhans just hammered a townie on day one. WITHOUT giving him a chance to defend himself. I thought that as a townie you wanted to be sure not to kill a fellow townie but scum knows the other scum, so they can kill whoever they want with impunity.
err if thats not clear just let me know
Post by: Mr.Person on September 26, 2009, 12:17:06 pm
Also, those who want me to kill Mr.Person... If I do... who do we lynch, then? Because we are not gonna have much time left to decide. Will Mr.Person's flip greatly affect your suspicions?
See ya.
Yes, Mr.Person's flip WILL greatly effect my suspicions. You see Alex, there's a viewpoint I don't think you've addressed properly: the possibility that YOU'RE scum.
Exactly what i said to everyone when i was accused of attempting to derail. We should not get so involved with Mr. P as to forget that alexhans just hammered a townie on day one. WITHOUT giving him a chance to defend himself. I thought that as a townie you wanted to be sure not to kill a fellow townie but scum knows the other scum, so they can kill whoever they want with impunity.
err if thats not clear just let me know
That's a bit of a oversimplified view of this, to be honest.
Pandarsenic, please note that I'm not actually voting for you. I was voting for you, earlier, but then I noticed that you weren't lurking and other people didn't seem to believe all caps and lots of exclamation marks was in any way suspicious.
I was confused as to why you worded it that way. It seemed a conscious choice to word it that way, so I wondered if you had a motive for wording it that way.
Screw the other people, if you think he's scum, you should be voting for him and putting pressure on him. FoS on Cheeetar because only scum would back away from people quickly because they can't get an easy lynch. Which brings me to...
Scum know their team mates. I reason that they want to keep their team mates, and would not like them lynched. Thus, I find it strange that nobody was defending Mr. Person, as if he was scum some people would be trying to. However: it could be a bus in that scum want to get seen as town by voting off a scum person. Also, now that some people have removed their votes from Mr. Person (I think?) it could have just been a plan to vote for him and then unvote before the day ended, to deflect suspicion from themselves.
You're looking at this all wrong. Imagine I'm scum. the situation would pretty much be a party gone all wrong with the rest of the team trying to bus me (Which I would go along with, btw, and probably buddy up with a townie :D Happy WIFOM with that). All the scum trying to bus me would be on the list late.
Or, I'm town. This would also be a party gone wrong, but it would also involve at least one, probably more scums bandwagoning (or looking like legitimate votes, I dunno). Again, all the scum on my vote would be on the list late.
Do you see it now? I'm going after the people late on my lynch train, specifically ToonyMan and Archangel. However, after some reconsideration, I'm reconsidering if ToonyMan is scum. I'm still leaning scum, but no longer do I think he's guaranteed scum. He's still acting supersuspicious and anti-town, even for him, but I've got other, more suspicious people to go after. Like Cheeetar. First off, I don't think anybody's actually removed their votes from me, but I might be wrong. More importantly, your "deflect suspicion from themselves" thing makes no sense. The scum doesn't care about suspicion, they just want to get a townie lynched. What better way to lynch a townie than to get a GIANT bandwagon on one? Assuming Alexhans is town, they'd also LOVE IT if Alexhans shot a townies, too. Then, they might be able to push a lynch on him. Even if he shoots scum, they still might be able to push a lynch on him. If he doesn't shoot tonight, I bet the scum kills him tonight, they just don't want a daykilling townie running around, no matter how suspicious he is.
Blarg, that rambled. Lemme try again. Why do you think the scum want to deflect attention away from themselves when they could of easily gone for a lynch on me?
Post by: Leafsnail on September 26, 2009, 12:17:39 pm
Quote
Mr.Person: chaoticjosh, ToonyMan, Diakron, Archangel, Boksi, Pandarsenic
Boksi: Zaithemaster, Mephansteras
Pandarsenic: Dakarian
Archangel: Mr.Person
Mephansteras: webadict
ToonyMan: Alexhans
Redwarrior0: chaoticjosh
Note: you may appear in this thingy twice blah blah blah. And yes, if you check back through the thread, the flavour text is rather similar to that strange alternative version of the first day that happened a while ago.
Post by: dakarian on September 26, 2009, 12:57:50 pm
I disagree. I believe the scum care specifically about suspicion. Remember they have the all-mighty NK to eliminate townies. As such, their main care in the day is to avoid dying. Getting a townie killed is more "better him than me" than actually trying to murder someone. That's why mafia tends to be protective and passive while townies tend to act like junkyard dogs fighting over a t-bone steak. Note that this is just theorycraft arguing.
As for Alexhan, I can sum it up one of my thoughts about him: He NEEDS to go ahead and use that daykill, now that he's out. That's one of a few reasons why his early shooting was poor: the mafia now know him. If he's town and doesn't use his daykill, the mafia have an insane advantage: they could kill him and remove the town kill or keep him alive and present one of the worst WIFOMs we would ever face.
To put it short: Alex doesn't have to kill you, but he needs to use that daykill. With it, we get a quasi extra day without the night.
About Suspicions: How do you feel about Archangel? Mind doing a scan on him and seeing how he looks to you? I'm really not liking him at the moment.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2009, 01:00:34 pm
Post by: dakarian on September 26, 2009, 01:13:11 pm
His hesitency for making a kill now, though.. that looks a little worse. Hyper aggressive into hyper defensive isn't a nice combo to see.
One nice thing to remember: this is Day 1. Still day 1. We can take a little time to gather information. Besides, I've learned that a Wide Scan can be pretty useful so long as it doesn't make you wishy washy.
Thus, why I wait for Person to talk about Archangel, I'll take a listen to webadict. he's right: he's a confirmed townie and we havn't really been listening to him.
Btw, @Webadict: Who hasn't sent you their PM text yet?
Post by: Mr.Person on September 26, 2009, 01:29:43 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on September 26, 2009, 01:30:21 pm
Post by: dakarian on September 26, 2009, 01:54:44 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on September 26, 2009, 02:03:42 pm
Post by: dakarian on September 26, 2009, 02:30:49 pm
Meanwhile, I did a look through Meth on Webadict's request (apologies for not noticing you). I believe we need to put more pressure on him before we finalize him. It's a reason why I like the way this day is going: it feels like we can focus on more than one since we get to daykill one and lynch another.
Mr.Person, I'm putting to neutral. If what I see now was what I saw at the start of Day 1, I wouldn't have bothered with more than pressure from him in the first place. I think I'll need Day 2 to look at him more.
Archangel.. I don't like him. He's not true lurking, but he does a good bit of active lurking. He 'passive suspects' without any real pressure, and uses 'don't want to analyze, just using gut feelings to choose. That the suspects are the 'easy lynches' just makes it ugly. I don't believe in killin 'unhelpful townies', but there's styles of unhelpfullnes that seek to "survive by looking like a sheep" which suggests it's more than just a useless townie, but a passive scum. I think I know who to focus on now.
Proposal: Daykill ARchangel, then pressure up Panda and Meth.
@Everyone
I asked this of Person before. I ask this of Archangel now. Read the debates I have with Archangel along with his posts up to this point. From there, I ask you to make this choice.
1. If you believe my argument is flawed then post points where what I said was off. I will listen to them.
2. If you believe Archangel is suspect but not firmly scum, state the parts that make you suspect to Archangel so he can speak about them. Question and argue with him until you are sure one way or another.
3. If you believe Archangel is scum fully, then highly consider putting him as the choice for Daykill by voting for him.
I know the town is focused on Person right now. If those voting for him believe he should go before ARchangel, then present your reasons for Person to be killed. If you have some doubt now, then please look at my proposal for now. We still have the day 1 lynch to consider as well so we can still pressure others for info, but for now, I think we at least have one for the Daykill.
Unvote, Vote Archangel
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2009, 02:59:23 pm
Archangel - Usual Archangel is usual, but this time with longer posts!
I don't suspect Archangel as much as Mr.Person, however, there is a REASON Alexhans isn't killing Mr.Person, you know WHY? SCUM SCUM SCUM.
My vote stays on Mr.Person. We can deal with Alexhans tommorow.
One thing though...
What do you have to say about me thinking Mr.Person and Alexhans are scum Archangel?
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 26, 2009, 03:45:58 pm
My vote stands until Alexhans hammers.
Post by: Alexhans on September 26, 2009, 03:56:50 pm
Toony... If I was scum with Mr.Person I would've hammered him by now. That would've "cleared" me but you keep thinking in your own simplistic terms. Try to get this... I'm not as blunt and straighforward as you. I can actually analyze people from their point of view.
You probably get all surprised whenever you watch a detective movie... each twist probably shocks you. OH my gozzz... It was the janitor!!! woah!!
I'll propose you this, though. If Mr.Person doesn't flip scum we lynch you... how about that? Im not actually sure if youre scum (because you always act anti-town to the max and have no frigging right to point one mistake i make) but removing you out of the game would cause me inmense pleasure.
PS: Codecamp was great. I mean, AMAZING.
and whoever suggested that I should kill someone other than Mr.P... Mr.P is my only choice... So I don't really have an option but to kill or not kill...
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2009, 03:58:07 pm
Post by: Alexhans on September 26, 2009, 04:01:52 pm
Quote from: Alexhans
I'll propose you this, though. If Mr.Person doesn't flip scum we lynch you... how about that?Answer me.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2009, 04:06:33 pm
What does everybody else think? I'll freakin' do it if I have to so we can get Mr.Person killed.
Post by: Alexhans on September 26, 2009, 04:54:08 pm
I'm inclined to agree with Toony here (oh, the shock). I strongly suspect an Alexhans/Mr.P scumteam, particularly on account of Alexhan's WIFOM generation (I WOULDN'T DEFEND HIM IF WE WERE BOTH SCUM).how do you spell vulyit? Or is it Bullshit?
My vote stands until Alexhans hammers.
It's funny how most of you say I'm a crafty son of a bitch, good player, hard to read, etc, etc and then pretend I will make the lamest mistake ever and defend a scum partner (ABOUT TO BE LYNCHED!!!) on day 1.
It's NOT WIFOM. I'm not stupid. That's all.
I've played with you in the same scumteam Pandar... You should know better.
That's stupid Alexhans.Toonyman... You act as if you were sure... but then you say you won't do it... If you're scum and Mr.Person is town then you're not going to do this because you KNOW he will flip town. If you're town you don't know. But you're not acting like it.
What does everybody else think? I'll freakin' do it if I have to so we can get Mr.Person killed.
By the way... I'm not killing Mr.Person. If he is town, as I'm pretty sure he is, it would cause us to mislynch twice because you're probably going to pull off some messed up waggon and quicklynch someone with no time.
If I die tonight. My only advice is that you look outside of this circle of stupidity and lynch some lurkers (active or inactive) before they lose the game for you (although you're doing a pretty good job).
If Mr.Person indeed flips scum... Congrats. You're welcome to direct my kill tomorrow and I will comply (if you want me to kill myself or some other stunt I'll make sure I know who is going to be lynched next before doing so)
I'll read all I've missed later.
anyway... I think I didn't see content from RedWarrior, boksi, brothernature, etc, etc...
Remember Kingmaker mafia... fluff posters and lurkers win the game while you lynch players who GENUINELY scumhunt.
Webadict. We NEED you. You must start coordinating all night actions and try to break the game.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2009, 04:58:38 pm
Day-Kill Mr.Person right now.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2009, 05:02:39 pm
Post by: Alexhans on September 26, 2009, 05:15:58 pm
A couple of games ago you were acting like crazy but at least you acknowledged that you sucked... Now you just suck.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2009, 05:17:36 pm
How sad. Stop calling me stupid if I'm beating you. You're acting like a child.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 26, 2009, 05:20:01 pm
Im back. Just skimmed this a bit and found one stupid comment after the other... all coming from Toonyman... Our "mafia expert"... ::)
Toony... If I was scum with Mr.Person I would've hammered him by now. That would've "cleared" me but you keep thinking in your own simplistic terms. Try to get this... I'm not as blunt and straighforward as you. I can actually analyze people from their point of view.
You probably get all surprised whenever you watch a detective movie... each twist probably shocks you. OH my gozzz... It was the janitor!!! woah!!
I'll propose you this, though. If Mr.Person doesn't flip scum we lynch you... how about that? Im not actually sure if youre scum (because you always act anti-town to the max and have no frigging right to point one mistake i make) but removing you out of the game would cause me inmense pleasure.
PS: Codecamp was great. I mean, AMAZING.
and whoever suggested that I should kill someone other than Mr.P... Mr.P is my only choice... So I don't really have an option but to kill or not kill...
Hammering him doesn't and would not clear you.
Trying to get someone lynched without being reasonably sure of his scumminess, just because, is ridiculous. Have you just given up? I expect better of you, Alexhans. You shouldn't be getting angry like this.
That aside, Mr.Person flipping scum doesn't clear Toony either.
Alexhans, just drop the hammer.
Post by: Alexhans on September 26, 2009, 05:20:36 pm
You're gonna apologize for being such a pain in the ass?
You're not contributing. You're not scumhunting. You're just flooding the thread saying im scum and, the fact that Im not and you're posting useless, repetetive posts, should precipitate in you being a fool.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2009, 05:21:59 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on September 26, 2009, 05:24:13 pm
Post by: Alexhans on September 26, 2009, 05:24:45 pm
But I will give you the names of who should be lynched (scum and maybe one or two anti-town players just to make sure) before the day is over.
Then you'll maybe learn a bit about the game.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 26, 2009, 05:25:21 pm
So do it.
Post by: Alexhans on September 26, 2009, 05:26:14 pm
Yes then. I'll take your offer SCUM-BUCKET.Kill yourself... Right now.
Day-Kill Mr.Person right now.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2009, 05:26:44 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on September 26, 2009, 05:28:08 pm
The clear problem here is we're not getting anywhere until you hammer or the day ends, Alexhans, and at this rate I refuse to trust you at Lylo. The thing is, you should be playing better than this - as scum or townie. We need the information we get from his death, like it or not, and most of us believe him to be scum.
So do it.
ToonyMan, Pandarsenic, you guys are being so scummy, it hurts.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2009, 05:31:26 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Alexhans on September 26, 2009, 05:31:57 pm
I'm fairly sure Toonyman is just stupid. Not scum. Otherwise he wouldn't have taken my proposal...
Pandarsenic, on the other hand still gives me bad vibes. He has yet to scumhunt.
----------------
I wont drop the hammer. You better realize that and keep playing.
If you're wrong about Mr.Person then we will be even numbers and scum will have more roles to kill.
Now... When I don't kill I will still pose a threat to scum. But Webadict is cleared. So they could kill him too. But he has no powers. Oh... what a dilemma...
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2009, 05:33:53 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on September 26, 2009, 05:37:10 pm
It's made even worse that, of the people voting me, only ONE of them has ANY reasoning whatsoever in it. Diakron's post is full of nothing, Archangel has a feeling, and ToonyMan couldn't be acting scummier if he tried.
@Diakron: Remind me, exactly why do you think I'm scum?
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 26, 2009, 05:41:05 pm
I know about Dracron. Because they're so similar, all night actions going to Drakonian go to Dracron and vice versa. Does not effect Drakonian if he's doing the action or if one of the 2 is dead. Identical twins, in other words.First random vote by Mr.Person: Alexhans.
Yo yo yo, Alexhans, wat up, G?
The rest of you fools, just go along with what Alexhans says. What's the worst that can happen? No seriously, what's the worst possible role he could be, the guy who knows all the other roles in the game? If he's mafia, he already has a ton of info. If he's town, he's trying to find lying scum."LET'S ALL JUST OBEY ALEXHANS FOR THE FUN OF IT."
Just do whatever Alexhans says, unless you have a good reason not to. What he's asking for now is ok, he just wants to claim his known role last. Is that so unreasonable you have to blow up on him?
Pandarsenic, what's your take on the whole Alexhans issue? I think he's town, myself, but I want to hear what the rest of you guys say.Immediately saying you think Alexhans is town - the first commentary of anyone on his alignment posthammer, which I was (at the time) inclined to agree with.
Actually, Cheeetar makes some good points. The only reason I can see to word the Archcherub role in the way Pandarsenic did was to make Webadict look scummier. Thus, unvote and vote Pandarsenic.You followed Cheeetar's reasoning that even he abandoned as unworthy of voting over.
Pages 1-3 covered, 4+ coming soon.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2009, 05:42:12 pm
I quoted myself btw.
FAKE-EDIT: Nice job Pandarsenic.
Post by: Mr.Person on September 26, 2009, 05:45:40 pm
Why am I scum exactly Mr.Person? I ask you the same question.
I quoted myself btw.
FAKE-EDIT: Nice job Pandarsenic.
As I just said, I think you're scum because you haven't been scumhunting, you hopped on my bandwagon late with no explanation, and then when I pressed you for an explanation, it was a bullshit one. What was it, being defensive? Well, yeah, I don't want to get lynched, who does (Don't even bother bringing up Chaoticjosh).
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2009, 05:46:38 pm
Post by: webadict on September 26, 2009, 05:55:15 pm
As for that, I'd much rather hammer Archangel, but if ToonyMan doesn't shut up right now and start doing something other than focusing on one person. If you wanna talk, go back and get some real reasons and don't borrow them from other people.
I'm quite surprised no one is telling you to do this. I expect more from this Town...
Anyhow, I'm good with Archangel Hammertime.
Post by: Alexhans on September 26, 2009, 05:56:02 pm
Toonyman... You gave the worst possible reason and you're pushing like mad...
it's crazy. You should be lynched for being so anti-town... Scum won't kill you. You're their greatest asset.
Mr.Person... I think you're ready to play in mafiascum. So as to have some nice experiences and play games where people need actual reasons for their votes or they get lynched themselves for opportunistic waggons.
New Posts:
Quote from: Pandar
"LET'S ALL JUST OBEY ALEXHANS FOR THE FUN OF IT."What's up with you??? You're acting just like cheeetar when he voted for you.
Here's a new sig for you "I can't see the forest for the trees"
oh... look... toony complimented Pandar... oh my gooz... tehy mus be scum 2g3th3r (or some other toonybleah post)
Have anything to back that claim up like I did?You HAVE nothing on Mr.Person. NOTHING. Get that.
Post by: Alexhans on September 26, 2009, 05:58:36 pm
Unfortunately for town. I don't think Toonyman is scum...
We can still vote someone other than Mr.Person and get me to kill them.
But I can only hammer whoever has more votes so we need a lot of cooperation.
unvote, vote Archangel
Post by: ToonyMan on September 26, 2009, 06:01:07 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 26, 2009, 06:04:10 pm
I agree that tunnelvisioning is happening - and that if you guys fucking insist, I can unvote from Mr.Person and get behind a hammerstrike/lynch of Archangel. It's not like the scum will kill Mr.Person....
Post by: webadict on September 26, 2009, 06:08:58 pm
I'm not changing my vote.Go hit yourself with a lead pipe.
Archangel.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on September 26, 2009, 06:24:07 pm
By the way, has cj posted much recently?
Post by: Alexhans on September 26, 2009, 06:32:24 pm
Who do you think is scum?
Post by: Leafsnail on September 26, 2009, 06:35:02 pm
Quote from: WHYDONTYOUCARETHATIMINYOURHEAD
Mr.Person: ToonyMan, Diakron, Archangel, Boksi
Boksi: Zaithemaster, Mephansteras
Archangel: Dakarian, Alexhans, Pandarsenic, webadict, RedWarrior0, Mr.Person
RedWarrior0: chaoticjosh
Yes, yet more sortof recycled flavour text. Call it art. This is probably the longest first day phase ever... argh, it's almost endless.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 26, 2009, 06:52:08 pm
Post by: Alexhans on September 26, 2009, 07:08:19 pm
Toonyman... learn to play mafia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0)
Post by: RedWarrior0 on September 26, 2009, 07:13:16 pm
Also, I assume your decision to wait for his claim means your decision on the hammer as well. What role(s) would you choose to not hammer?
Post by: webadict on September 26, 2009, 07:16:42 pm
Im not hammering before Archangel claims.Well, I can clear that up for you. He's Taitheproficient. He gets two votes, but loses a vote each time he unvotes.
Toonyman... learn to play mafia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0)
Post by: Alexhans on September 26, 2009, 07:20:22 pm
Redwarrior. I will lynch anyone I think needs to be lynched regardless of the role but it's always good to know if you can trap someone into using their role in a pro-town manner or uncovering themselves.
I'll still wait for Archangel to show up and tell us what he thinks before hammering.
6 beats 5 Redwarrior. So If I hammer now Arch dies.
Post by: Leafsnail on September 26, 2009, 07:23:10 pm
Quote
Mod: If scum has a night action. Can they both kill and use their action on the same night?No, each player can only perform one action per night.
Post by: Alexhans on September 26, 2009, 07:25:44 pm
Webadict... You have homework...QuoteMod: If scum has a night action. Can they both kill and use their action on the same night?No, each player can only perform one action per night.
Find a way to intertwine all players with a night action so you can know if one of them didn't act.
Post by: webadict on September 26, 2009, 07:36:14 pm
Grand idea. I feel like I've got stuff to do...Webadict... You have homework...QuoteMod: If scum has a night action. Can they both kill and use their action on the same night?No, each player can only perform one action per night.
Find a way to intertwine all players with a night action so you can know if one of them didn't act.
Post by: dakarian on September 26, 2009, 08:05:36 pm
Alexhans, you started up a bet with Toonyman, saying that if he's willing to bet his life on Person turning up scum. He took that bet. You and Person start backing off and throwing accusation after accusation. Now you're pushing on the bandwagon for Archangel.
I smell fowl. Ugly, UGLY fowl.
Alex, you're a WOTer. I want, right now, a deep, strong analysis of exactly WHAT makes Mr. Person so town that you're willing to risk everything, including your credibility on it. I want a clear explanation of why he acted the way he did that caused you believe he's town and what you feel have been misread by the town. Do NOT give me theorycraft: that's pure WIFOM and you should know it. Just give me the facts based on the posts.
Excluding Webadict, there's not one person, ONE PERSON that I can declare THAT much town. You two don't question each other, don't poke at each other, and defend each other to the death. You claim that his meta game proved it to you. Explain then.. details.
Btw, what in the world is archangel supposed to claim that would clear him? This isn't Paranormal where you can claim "human guardian" or "Alien survivor". All of these roles can be set to be scum or town. As such, how would a role claim do ANYTHING to dispel a person at this point?
It's funny. With just Person alone, I can see him neutral. Alex, though, is looking worse and worse to me, and his resistance towards that hammer when he was so willing to go trigger happy early on taints Person.
So for now I'll maintain the aim for Arc for the hammering. However, Alex, I'll want that analysis from you, because I'm starting to get an idea of who gets the actual lynch for day 1.
Post by: Zai on September 26, 2009, 10:13:11 pm
Yes, he would have to prove he didn't know one. But why write that? Why not just say simply 'he didn't know a role'? One is his role, and one is something he would have to do. It was a conscious thing to say he would have to convince us, not simply bad wording or naturally saying it.
Jesus. Motherfucking. Christ. Let. It. Go. People have tried to reason with you, but you just won't let them. It's not a scumtell. It's just poor wording. To vote for someone because of an easily identified mistake (that you should be able to understand how it was made) is just ridiculous. But I see this's pretty late. Ah, well.
After reading all the posts since my last one (more than one page on 50 per (I think)), I must say: All of this fighting is terrible. I suspect there's only 1 person involved in all that arguing that is actually scum, 2 tops. But this fighting does not bode well. TM, M.P, and Alex are the main contenders in it (with some Pandar, Cheeetar, dakarian, and Web thrown in), but I'm not confident enough in saying that one of them is scum to vote for them.
The lurkers need to just be mod-killed or something. The ChaoticJim role, while a pretty unique concept, is not enough to end the lurking. All it does is promote active-lurking. If the lurkers are town, they're being anti-town. If they're scum, they're being scum. Either way, it's bad for town. I unvote Boksi for now, and change my vote to RedWarrior0, who I am currently more suspicious of.
Quote
We've decided to hammer ArchAngel? Let's figure out who to lynch after him. Alex was refusing to DK Mr.Person at one point. Pandar and Toony are seeming to agree. Archangel is as good as dead at this point.
Because people like you band wagon on him. Bandwagoning is bad. You've also been active lurking, with no real content to your posts. Have some actual reasons other than "oho lol theze gaiz no wut theyr doin so ill follow them". "We've decided to hammer ArchAngel?" Who is "we"? Think for yourself. All you're doing is bandwagoning with the confirmed townie. This is even more suspicious than regular bandwagoning. From a newbie scum's (which is what you'd be, I believe) point of view, this is the safest thing to do. Web's doing it, so it must be a safe bet, right? No. If you're town: Web makes mistakes too. You can't take his suspicions as the word of God. You need to think for yourself. And if you're scum: Web is a pretty clever guy. Don't put it past him to vote somebody just to trap some scum who bandwagoned with him
Also. I don't like the Taitheproficient role. (For one, I don't see how it's me, Leafsnail. <.<) Our common practice of random voting means they have to pretty much shoot themselves in the foot on the first day to not look so suspicious if they don't want to roleclaim. The 2 votes are good, but you have to be sure about who you want to lynch; changing your vote weakens your vote.
And I'm getting worked up from being tired, so that's all for now. I should have a lot of free time tomorrow, so I'll try and do more then.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 26, 2009, 10:24:32 pm
Listen: I suspect him. That does not mean I immediately want him dead. I am asking questions so as to know why he worded it that way. Also: Isn't a FoS the same thing, Mr. Person? Screw the other people, if you think he's scum, you should be voting for him and putting pressure on him. Only scum would FoS people because they can't get an easy lynch (this is sarcasm).Pandarsenic, please note that I'm not actually voting for you. I was voting for you, earlier, but then I noticed that you weren't lurking and other people didn't seem to believe all caps and lots of exclamation marks was in any way suspicious.
I was confused as to why you worded it that way. It seemed a conscious choice to word it that way, so I wondered if you had a motive for wording it that way.
Screw the other people, if you think he's scum, you should be voting for him and putting pressure on him. FoS on Cheeetar because only scum would back away from people quickly because they can't get an easy lynch. Which brings me to...
Scum know their team mates. I reason that they want to keep their team mates, and would not like them lynched. Thus, I find it strange that nobody was defending Mr. Person, as if he was scum some people would be trying to. However: it could be a bus in that scum want to get seen as town by voting off a scum person. Also, now that some people have removed their votes from Mr. Person (I think?) it could have just been a plan to vote for him and then unvote before the day ended, to deflect suspicion from themselves.
You're looking at this all wrong. Imagine I'm scum. the situation would pretty much be a party gone all wrong with the rest of the team trying to bus me (Which I would go along with, btw, and probably buddy up with a townie :D Happy WIFOM with that). All the scum trying to bus me would be on the list late.
Also: Putting a WIFOM on your death (I could be town or scum! Haha! What are you going to do now?!) has made me very suspicious of you. In keeping with your encouragement to just vote and not back away, I will vote Mr. Person.
I'm fairly sure Toonyman is just stupid. Not scum. Otherwise he wouldn't have taken my proposal...'Well, I want people to ignore everything he says, but I don't want him lynched because then he would turn up town and I might be suspected'
Also strangely this is about exactly the same thing Pandarsenic said about me (although that was probably warranted at the time).
What Toonyman is doing right now is pretty much what won Paranormal Mafia Round 9.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 26, 2009, 10:28:15 pm
Post by: dakarian on September 26, 2009, 11:44:02 pm
The problem: they were not only town, but the mafia used Toonyman's pull to lure the town deep into tunnelvision. Once that person died town, the mafia offed Toonyman and finished the game handly.
Toony's no fool, but he can make mistakes like the rest of us.
This game, his doggedness for Person has led to a very interesting scene with Alexhans.
Of course, that's why I asked Alex for what I asked for. I want to see him plain and full, now that he's shown his motives.
Btw, Zaith, don't feel so bad about the fighting. So much has been said and shown here that will remain permanently written in the texts. We've shown a large batch of ourselves through this battle and it will come to haunt us in the days to come. That's about the most pro-town thing you can ask for in Day 1. Just as long as the fighting doesn't turn into raw anger (@Webadict, please calm down. You're our confirmed townie. We NEED you calm and cool. We can't afford you to let anyone get under your skin. Ignore Toonyman for the moment if you have to, but please, we need your mind, not your anger) or tunnelvision (@Toonyman I know you don't like to let go but I have to ask: when you pull back and start from scratch, who truly is the most DANGEROUS scum?) we can turn this game into our favor.
Even the lurkers, at this point, have shown more than they think they have. "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice". When you go analyze them, think less "Who is being the least helpful" and more "Who is trying to maneuver through this like a mafia would?" Townies tend to be more 'anti-town' than Mafia.. at least at first glance.
Even after you made your vote and decided who will die, don't stop the attacks. There's others who need to be pushed, others who have slipped by a suspicion without answering to it. Even if you think they are town, push them anyway. The more truth that comes out, the better our chances in the long run. Don't stop till the day is done.
Post by: Mr.Person on September 27, 2009, 12:54:16 am
Listen: I suspect him. That does not mean I immediately want him dead. I am asking questions so as to know why he worded it that way. Also: Isn't a FoS the same thing, Mr. Person? Screw the other people, if you think he's scum, you should be voting for him and putting pressure on him. Only scum would FoS people because they can't get an easy lynch (this is sarcasm).Pandarsenic, please note that I'm not actually voting for you. I was voting for you, earlier, but then I noticed that you weren't lurking and other people didn't seem to believe all caps and lots of exclamation marks was in any way suspicious.
I was confused as to why you worded it that way. It seemed a conscious choice to word it that way, so I wondered if you had a motive for wording it that way.
Screw the other people, if you think he's scum, you should be voting for him and putting pressure on him. FoS on Cheeetar because only scum would back away from people quickly because they can't get an easy lynch. Which brings me to...
Scum know their team mates. I reason that they want to keep their team mates, and would not like them lynched. Thus, I find it strange that nobody was defending Mr. Person, as if he was scum some people would be trying to. However: it could be a bus in that scum want to get seen as town by voting off a scum person. Also, now that some people have removed their votes from Mr. Person (I think?) it could have just been a plan to vote for him and then unvote before the day ended, to deflect suspicion from themselves.
You're looking at this all wrong. Imagine I'm scum. the situation would pretty much be a party gone all wrong with the rest of the team trying to bus me (Which I would go along with, btw, and probably buddy up with a townie :D Happy WIFOM with that). All the scum trying to bus me would be on the list late.
Also: Putting a WIFOM on your death (I could be town or scum! Haha! What are you going to do now?!) has made me very suspicious of you. In keeping with your encouragement to just vote and not back away, I will vote Mr. Person.I'm fairly sure Toonyman is just stupid. Not scum. Otherwise he wouldn't have taken my proposal...'Well, I want people to ignore everything he says, but I don't want him lynched because then he would turn up town and I might be suspected'
Also strangely this is about exactly the same thing Pandarsenic said about me (although that was probably warranted at the time).
What Toonyman is doing right now is pretty much what won Paranormal Mafia Round 9.
Hmm, a strange turn of events indeed. I'm not sure what to think on this, actually, since you did what the scum would of done in this situation, but you also did what an unhelpful townie would do in this situation. Of course, you neglected to include any reasoning on your part, so please provide that now. In addition, I'm glad you're speaking up, but I think you missed my point (I don't blame you for missing it, it was buried). I was wondering why you backed off from Pandarsenic.
@your ToonyMan comments, it works, as long as he backs off from townies, which ToonyMan has a bad habit of not doing. In fact, ToonyMan rarely ever backs off from anyone, scum or town. It's a valid way to play, he just needs to learn when to back off, but that might have to wait til after this game.
@Alexhans: To be honest, if you hadn't of yelled at everyone, I'd be lynched for sure, instead of just probably lynched.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 27, 2009, 01:20:16 am
The reason I'm voting for you is because you said I shouldn't back off from suspicion and should go through with them despite not voting for me while you think I am scum ('Only scum would back away from people'), which is hypocritical of you, and also because of the WIFOM about your lynch.
Post by: Mr.Person on September 27, 2009, 03:49:19 am
The reason I backed off Pandarsenic is because: He wasn't lurking, the whole caps thing isn't that big and he was probably just messing around and the role mis-write, while a conscious decision, was related to the role description he was given.
The reason I'm voting for you is because you said I shouldn't back off from suspicion and should go through with them despite not voting for me while you think I am scum ('Only scum would back away from people'), which is hypocritical of you, and also because of the WIFOM about your lynch.
You do realize it's possible to think more than one person is scum, right? That's what FoS's are for, as well as asking questions. I think Archangel is scum, I'm pretty much certain of that. ToonyMan is possibly scum, as are you, since you seem to only be reading my posts to pick them apart. This is fine, except you aren't even talking about anybody else (except Pandarsenic). Even if I was scum, you would still have to go find the rest of the scum team. Why don't you go look for them? In other words, who do you think is scum?
Also, I never said "Only scum would back away from people" I said "Only scum would back away from somebody who is no longer an easy lynch". In any case, lemme add a qualifier to that, but first, another question. I promise I'll explain my reasoning, just answer this last one, Cheeetar. Do you think Pandarsenic is town or do you think he's scum?
Post by: Archangel on September 27, 2009, 04:50:01 am
What do you have to say about me thinking Mr.Person and Alexhans are scum Archangel?I don't know. I suspect Mr. P of being scum, and I don't think Alex is being focused on enough. But that's all I've got.
Now, on to my suspicions (if any of the points I raise have already been made and answered, I apologize. I am using only the subject's posts). First, Boksi.
He didn't really give a reason for his first vote, which was on Alex, only said that he agreed with Toony and “Found Mr.Person's extreme support of him very suspicious”.
In his next post, he sort of plays the “I'm a noob” card, with “I don't have much experience in these things”. He then voted for CJ, saying that it seemed like a good idea, or at least better than lynching Alexhans, and was already getting a clear majority. Boksi then repeated his suspicion of Mr.P, claiming that it was based on his general behaviour.
In his first post after the reset, Boksi says that his vote for Alex was based on Mr.P's defence of him. He then made his noobiness claim much more overt. He finished it with a vote for Mr.P, pointing out (possibly in an effort to play it down) that he is bandwagoning. I'm fairly sure he was called out on this last part, resulting in his second last post.
1253821675Mr.Person questioned him, to which he replied really vaguely and thus very poorly.
Hm. I guess I don't have this burning drive compelling me to read and write massive walls of text and analyze people based on their current behavior, future behavior and behavior in relation to current knowledge and other people's behavior. Instead I make hasty decisions based on hunches. Hee, I'm being a bad player. How amusing. Or not, if you take a freaking text game on the internet seriously enough to hold grudges, but I don't think you do. Do you?
Compare my behavior if you want. I was scum in Mind & Magic Mafia 2 and Ridiculous Mafia 2. I can't be bothered to do this analysis stuff.
But on to Meph's question. Why did I bandwagon Mr. Person? It's a question which I can't truly answer myself. I guess I didn't like his overzealousness. I mean, he seems like the most aggressive person in this game, well outpacing Alexhans. But maybe that's because I don't spend as much time poring over this thread like you guys?
That's fine, just one small detail. Why, exactly, is aggressiveness scummy?
Well, aggression isn't exactly scummy... How do I put this? Well, I really can't point to anything concrete. There's something about his style, especially early on, that just rubs me the wrong way.
Well. I have to stabilize my sleep patterns and it's almost eleven, so...
I'll try to do Mr.Person as well, but I don't know if I'll finish in time. I'll do it for the practice, and if I manage to get done and post it, that will be good.
My defense will come after I've reread the new posts.
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 27, 2009, 05:25:00 am
RedWarrior, I asked you a question some time ago, and since then, IIRC, you've not only ignored it, but you've only posted once, bandwagoned, and not provided any content.
This is it, if you're wondering what I'm talking about:
Oh, shoot. My post count for the day got reset.RedWarrior. This might seem petty of me, but I get this weird vibe that you're only posting to avoid retribution. You want all the benefits of posting, but you don't actually want to play with the rest of us.
I wouldn't be surprised if a role named after me was another one based off lurking.
So I need another post.
Now Alex, I've become much more suspicious of you. From the last couple pages, you've: offered a bogus deal with no reasonable merit, slung insults, been very condescending to Toon and others as though you're the only person worth listening to, and as Dakarion said, you and MP have been backing eachother up this entire time, which seems very odd to me. There's a number of other things, but there's only one that hasn't been addressed yet:
You've ignored me completely. Now, I feel a bit disrespected here. You see, I've asked you questions, I've brought up reasonable points, and I've talked to you directly, so I don't think there's an excuse for this. If you'd like me to, I can bring up the multiple posts you've ignored.
Now, I don't mean to be rude, but I have a feeling that you're stalling for time. Didn't you say earlier that you had enough votes to hammer Archangel? Why haven't you? Wasn't he the person that you wanted to hammer most? You said you wanted to see what he claims, but as Dakarion said already, there's really nothing he could claim that would prove anything one way or the other.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 27, 2009, 06:58:03 am
If he's town aiming at town, a little encouragement can go a long way for scum, as I learned in Beginner II. Toony always acts confident, but his true confidence level rises (naturally) when others agree with him. If several people "reluctantly" begin to side with him, "convinced" by his arguments, there might be scum letting Toony take the lead so he'll do their legwork. Just throwing this out there as a bit of food for thought.
Post by: Archangel on September 27, 2009, 07:07:00 am
I will try to answer the points Dak and Mr.P made.
Archangel's been lurking, he was late on my bandwagon, and his list of suspicion had no suspicion. Most people were "No comment" which is pretty bad. Even "probable scum" would of been better. Nope, Archangel wants to look uninvolved with everybody else. Oops.When I did that list, I wasn't really thinking. Further consideration when I was less tired led me to feel that Pandar seems wrong somehow. But that doesn't help anyone at all, especially as it's just like the other things I said, it sounds like I'm following better players. My vote on you was because I think you're scum, not because there were several people voting for you. As for the first point, I have been trying to stop, but so far I just seem to have gone from inactive- to active-lurking.
Archangel.. I don't like him. He's not true lurking, but he does a good bit of active lurking. He 'passive suspects' without any real pressure, and uses 'don't want to analyze, just using gut feelings to choose. That the suspects are the 'easy lynches' just makes it ugly. I don't believe in killing 'unhelpful townies', but there's styles of unhelpfullness that seek to "survive by looking like a sheep" which suggests it's more than just a useless townie, but a passive scum. I think I know who to focus on now.I am attempting proper analysis now. I can't think of anything else to say to you.
I'd like to have a more time to defend myself, and more direct questions to respond to. As such, I'm leaving my vote where it is in the hopes of getting a tie in addition to wanting Mr.Person dead.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 27, 2009, 07:09:38 am
Whom do you consider most likely to be scum and what's your ideal scumteam, Archangel?
If you want to be active instead of activelurking, scumhunt, don't just accuse anyone who accuses you.
Post by: webadict on September 27, 2009, 08:34:55 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 27, 2009, 08:42:23 am
Pandarsenic is active lurking.
NO U
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 27, 2009, 08:43:39 am
Post by: Cheeetar on September 27, 2009, 09:15:17 am
The reason I backed off Pandarsenic is because: He wasn't lurking, the whole caps thing isn't that big and he was probably just messing around and the role mis-write, while a conscious decision, was related to the role description he was given.
The reason I'm voting for you is because you said I shouldn't back off from suspicion and should go through with them despite not voting for me while you think I am scum ('Only scum would back away from people'), which is hypocritical of you, and also because of the WIFOM about your lynch.
You do realize it's possible to think more than one person is scum, right? That's what FoS's are for, as well as asking questions. I think Archangel is scum, I'm pretty much certain of that. ToonyMan is possibly scum, as are you, since you seem to only be reading my posts to pick them apart. This is fine, except you aren't even talking about anybody else (except Pandarsenic). Even if I was scum, you would still have to go find the rest of the scum team. Why don't you go look for them? In other words, who do you think is scum?
Also, I never said "Only scum would back away from people" I said "Only scum would back away from somebody who is no longer an easy lynch". In any case, lemme add a qualifier to that, but first, another question. I promise I'll explain my reasoning, just answer this last one, Cheeetar. Do you think Pandarsenic is town or do you think he's scum?
I think Pandarsenic is town for now, as that is my default assumption for someone until they have been suspicious enough. My previous points were pointed out as wrong and I now agree that they were. I think Alexhans is scum at the moment, as he hammered someone while giving them little chance to defend themself, and has been very abrasive to anyone who questions him. I also think you are scum, because of the possibility of you being scum buddies with Alexhans (yes I am aware that it would be stupid for scum to do this. However, that does not mean it is not true) and your previous WIFOM about your death.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 27, 2009, 09:31:42 am
Unvote. Vote Boksi.
DO something useful.
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 27, 2009, 09:44:24 am
Post by: ToonyMan on September 27, 2009, 09:55:47 am
So Toon, I take it your entire accusation of Boksi is that he's lurking?
Scum logic.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 27, 2009, 09:57:46 am
Boksi - Number three on my scum list. Acting INSANELY suspicious. Look at this quote!!:Anyway, I seem to be overly fond of bandwagoning, so I'm voting Mr. Person now.WUT
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 27, 2009, 11:36:56 am
Post by: ToonyMan on September 27, 2009, 11:55:29 am
But on to Meph's question. Why did I bandwagon Mr. Person? It's a question which I can't truly answer myself. I guess I didn't like his overzealousness. I mean, he seems like the most aggressive person in this game, well outpacing Alexhans. But maybe that's because I don't spend as much time poring over this thread like you guys?
That's his reason. He can't answer why he bandwagon'd. You know why? No reason. Then he talks about how he doesn't pay attention like "you guys". Lurker excuse.
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 27, 2009, 12:20:19 pm
I got a funny feeling...
What I mean is, some posts prior to your vote for Boksi, Pandar made an interesting post:
It occurs to me - does it seem like anyone is making a point of encouraging Toony - subtly or overtly - in his crusade?
If he's town aiming at town, a little encouragement can go a long way for scum, as I learned in Beginner II. Toony always acts confident, but his true confidence level rises (naturally) when others agree with him. If several people "reluctantly" begin to side with him, "convinced" by his arguments, there might be scum letting Toony take the lead so he'll do their legwork. Just throwing this out there as a bit of food for thought.
Here, Pandar off-handedly mentions that the people agreeing with you and voting with you might be scum.
Your next post after this, you change your vote to Boksi.
That seems a tad relevant to me, if only because your position changed from "I'm not unvoting from Mr.Person NO MATTER WHAT!" to "Oh, I found a reason to vote for Boksi, nevermind.", and you did this immediately after it was mentioned that those voting with you might be scum...
That's one heck of a coincidence, isn't it ToonyMan?
Post by: Mr.Person on September 27, 2009, 12:49:17 pm
The reason I backed off Pandarsenic is because: He wasn't lurking, the whole caps thing isn't that big and he was probably just messing around and the role mis-write, while a conscious decision, was related to the role description he was given.
The reason I'm voting for you is because you said I shouldn't back off from suspicion and should go through with them despite not voting for me while you think I am scum ('Only scum would back away from people'), which is hypocritical of you, and also because of the WIFOM about your lynch.
You do realize it's possible to think more than one person is scum, right? That's what FoS's are for, as well as asking questions. I think Archangel is scum, I'm pretty much certain of that. ToonyMan is possibly scum, as are you, since you seem to only be reading my posts to pick them apart. This is fine, except you aren't even talking about anybody else (except Pandarsenic). Even if I was scum, you would still have to go find the rest of the scum team. Why don't you go look for them? In other words, who do you think is scum?
Also, I never said "Only scum would back away from people" I said "Only scum would back away from somebody who is no longer an easy lynch". In any case, lemme add a qualifier to that, but first, another question. I promise I'll explain my reasoning, just answer this last one, Cheeetar. Do you think Pandarsenic is town or do you think he's scum?
I think Pandarsenic is town for now, as that is my default assumption for someone until they have been suspicious enough. My previous points were pointed out as wrong and I now agree that they were. I think Alexhans is scum at the moment, as he hammered someone while giving them little chance to defend themself, and has been very abrasive to anyone who questions him. I also think you are scum, because of the possibility of you being scum buddies with Alexhans (yes I am aware that it would be stupid for scum to do this. However, that does not mean it is not true) and your previous WIFOM about your death.
That is the correct answer. Scum probably would of said something like "I think he's town, but he might still be scum, I'm not sure" or "His response is pretty scummy, so I'll think about it". The next thing I would of done in a case like that is ask why you unvoted Pandarsenic if you still think he could be scum, to which you would respond with "Because I think he's town, I'm just not sure 100%" (This would be a null tell) or "Because I don't really know which side he's on" (This would be super-scummy, "Why'd you unvote him if you don't really know? Why didn't you press the issue to death?)
Basically, I was trying to find out if you unvoted him because he was no longer an easy lynch. I'm fairly satisfied that you weren't, and we've all learned a good bit of info. For instance, you trust Pandarsenic to be town (at the moment). I'm going to move you up to neutral.
I start everybody off as neutral, just so you know, and Alexhans is no longer in the "trusted town" category, he's down to "probably town". That means I trust chaoticjosh more than Alexhans, just so you all know. He probably won't go any lower til lylo, however.
Blarg, once again, I'm too trusting. I want to hear what ToonyMan has to say, since he's one of the few people I really just don't trust.
Funfact: I made a typo of "few" as "fear" so that would leave the sentence as "I want to hear what ToonyMan has to say, since he's one of the fear people I really just don't trust." Sometimes I wish I didn't put so much stock in Freudian slips.
Post by: dakarian on September 27, 2009, 12:55:36 pm
A townie that finally woke up or a mafia that's desperately attempting to appease me? That's what I have to decide now, for now, I lean towards the latter.
What to say to me? I didn't offer anything for you to say that will help you recover. What can you do? What any townie should do: a PROPER analysis combined with scumhunting. If you do well, and you still die, then your posts will have more weight. If your investigation finds a scum, but your 'scumminess' makes you look bad, then if you die, your words will carry and the scum will be pushed at and killed. When you are on the brink of death, taking a scum with you is one of the best things you can do, far better than playing it safe just to stay alive. Don't go "ok, kill me". Don't hyperdefend yourself all day. Don't randomly point fingers. Find the scum we so desperately need, NOW.
Of course, that's playing the 'if you are town' card. If you are mafia, then at this point, there's no hope for you. You can't scumhunt since your flip will ruin your words. You can't try to protect or accuse anyone because all you will do is give us more tools. Silence is probably your best option to hold what info you have left.
I don't think you are just some townie that's been sleeping so far. I believe you're a mafia stuck on the wall. I'm not overconfident to say "YOU ARE 100% SCUM", but I can't see you as town. If you are, then what I wrote above is how I, when I'm town, approach my death: accept that I will probably die, and work hard to make what's left of my life count. I believe, though, that you will read this and go "Let myself die? I can't do that!!" I'll let you decide what to do but, as mafia, none of this will help you beyond looking back and seeing how you can prevent this, next game.
Post by: dakarian on September 27, 2009, 12:58:37 pm
I start everybody off as neutral, just so you know, and Alexhans is no longer in the "trusted town" category, he's down to "probably town". That means I trust chaoticjosh more than Alexhans, just so you all know. He probably won't go any lower til lylo, however.
Mind if I poke at two things?
1. What made you switch Alexhans from trusted to probably? It sounds like you spotted something you don't like. Furthermore, why did that 'something' not drop him down to neutral?
2. Most of us are neutral but you have only a few people you don't trust? So you trust neutrals?
Post by: Alexhans on September 27, 2009, 01:40:22 pm
Scum is not agressive... Scum is afraid... Remember that. And don't give me the WIFOM crap. This is statystical analysys from thousands of games. Scum wants to BLEND in. NOT stand out. It's how it is. If you can't understand that I don't know what else to tell you.
Having said that... How long till deadline? I have a lot of things to do today.
What's the current votecount?
I'm currently debating between killing one of Boksi, RedWarrior or brothernature. Archangel needs to keep defending himself and explaining his reasons but we musn't forget about the others.
Post by: Leafsnail on September 27, 2009, 01:47:17 pm
"Gimme an m!"
"M!"
"Gimme an r!"
"R!"
"Gimme an .! Somehow..."
Wait, so the computer is really going to try and give a votecount like this? For some reason, however, you are prepared for this, and have some pens and paper ready to write down the results of the chanting.
Quote
Mr.Person: Diakron, Archangel, Boksi, Cheeetar
Boksi: Mephansteras, ToonyMan
Archangel: Dakarian, Alexhans, Pandarsenic, webadict, RedWarrior0, Mr.Person
RedWarrior0: Zaithemaster
ToonyMan: chaoticjosh
This deja vu is starting to do your head in. You wish it would actually tell you something helpful rather than just modifying the flavour text slightly.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on September 27, 2009, 02:39:07 pm
Alex, why were you so sure that Mr.Person was town earlier? Scumbuddies with him, perhaps?
More later. I'm currently getting kicked off the computer.
Post by: Alexhans on September 27, 2009, 02:48:56 pm
Why are you unvoting Archangel? Why did you vote him in the first place? Why didn't you mention you had any suspicions about me being with Mr.Person before?
"More later"? I hope there's something else than this poor attempt to copycat others so you look like scumhunting.
Post by: Mr.Person on September 27, 2009, 02:58:48 pm
I start everybody off as neutral, just so you know, and Alexhans is no longer in the "trusted town" category, he's down to "probably town". That means I trust chaoticjosh more than Alexhans, just so you all know. He probably won't go any lower til lylo, however.
Mind if I poke at two things?
1. What made you switch Alexhans from trusted to probably? It sounds like you spotted something you don't like. Furthermore, why did that 'something' not drop him down to neutral?
2. Most of us are neutral but you have only a few people you don't trust? So you trust neutrals?
1. Lack of WoT's, mostly, but he's also no longer quite as aggressive. I also have this sneaky suspicion he's trying to buddy up with me, which I don't really want. However, since I know for a fact that this
2. Neutral is the default level. Most of you guys are actually lower. If I trust someone, you can be sure I think they're town, at least probably.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 27, 2009, 02:59:26 pm
Ah, I suppose that is a good reason, but then again, it's also a very convenient reason.
I got a funny feeling...
What I mean is, some posts prior to your vote for Boksi, Pandar made an interesting post:It occurs to me - does it seem like anyone is making a point of encouraging Toony - subtly or overtly - in his crusade?
If he's town aiming at town, a little encouragement can go a long way for scum, as I learned in Beginner II. Toony always acts confident, but his true confidence level rises (naturally) when others agree with him. If several people "reluctantly" begin to side with him, "convinced" by his arguments, there might be scum letting Toony take the lead so he'll do their legwork. Just throwing this out there as a bit of food for thought.
Here, Pandar off-handedly mentions that the people agreeing with you and voting with you might be scum.
Your next post after this, you change your vote to Boksi.
That seems a tad relevant to me, if only because your position changed from "I'm not unvoting from Mr.Person NO MATTER WHAT!" to "Oh, I found a reason to vote for Boksi, nevermind.", and you did this immediately after it was mentioned that those voting with you might be scum...
That's one heck of a coincidence, isn't it ToonyMan?
Alexhans and Mr.Person are scum, don't worry about that. I just need to see about the third one. TOO BAD NO ONE ELSE SEEMS TO CARE. Dakarian makes a good point, after that Alexhans deal thing the both of them tried to shush it out.
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 27, 2009, 04:09:33 pm
sigh... Lots and lots of nothing. Lots of ignoring arguments. Lots of "people is scum because they are agressive, abrasive, condescending, whatever"...
Scum is not agressive... Scum is afraid... Remember that. And don't give me the WIFOM crap. This is statystical analysys from thousands of games. Scum wants to BLEND in. NOT stand out. It's how it is. If you can't understand that I don't know what else to tell you.
So Alex, did something provoke this little outburst? It doesn't seem to correspond with any recent posts.
Ah, I suppose that is a good reason, but then again, it's also a very convenient reason.
I got a funny feeling...
What I mean is, some posts prior to your vote for Boksi, Pandar made an interesting post:It occurs to me - does it seem like anyone is making a point of encouraging Toony - subtly or overtly - in his crusade?
If he's town aiming at town, a little encouragement can go a long way for scum, as I learned in Beginner II. Toony always acts confident, but his true confidence level rises (naturally) when others agree with him. If several people "reluctantly" begin to side with him, "convinced" by his arguments, there might be scum letting Toony take the lead so he'll do their legwork. Just throwing this out there as a bit of food for thought.
Here, Pandar off-handedly mentions that the people agreeing with you and voting with you might be scum.
Your next post after this, you change your vote to Boksi.
That seems a tad relevant to me, if only because your position changed from "I'm not unvoting from Mr.Person NO MATTER WHAT!" to "Oh, I found a reason to vote for Boksi, nevermind.", and you did this immediately after it was mentioned that those voting with you might be scum...
That's one heck of a coincidence, isn't it ToonyMan?
Alexhans and Mr.Person are scum, don't worry about that. I just need to see about the third one. TOO BAD NO ONE ELSE SEEMS TO CARE. Dakarian makes a good point, after that Alexhans deal thing the both of them tried to shush it out.
The nonchalant response, I see. Nothing I can really do about that, afterall, you can just insist it was just a coincidence afterall.
Just know this however Toon, when I made that post saying that MP's hammer would greatly effect my suspicions, I wasn't just referring to Alex, I was talking about everyone involved. Don't think I didn't notice you using my argument against Alex to attack MP with no effort on your part, because I've been keeping my eye on you since then.
Post by: Mr.Person on September 27, 2009, 04:15:24 pm
I start everybody off as neutral, just so you know, and Alexhans is no longer in the "trusted town" category, he's down to "probably town". That means I trust chaoticjosh more than Alexhans, just so you all know. He probably won't go any lower til lylo, however.
Mind if I poke at two things?
1. What made you switch Alexhans from trusted to probably? It sounds like you spotted something you don't like. Furthermore, why did that 'something' not drop him down to neutral?
2. Most of us are neutral but you have only a few people you don't trust? So you trust neutrals?
1. Lack of WoT's, mostly, but he's also no longer quite as aggressive. I also have this sneaky suspicion he's trying to buddy up with me, which I don't really want. However, since I know for a fact that this
2. Neutral is the default level. Most of you guys are actually lower. If I trust someone, you can be sure I think they're town, at least probably.
that this is my paranoia speaking. Wow, I can't finish anything these day, can I?
Post by: Diakron on September 27, 2009, 04:23:22 pm
damn to many WoT... all i want to know is why Alexhans agreed to a plan the reneged on it?
Post by: Alexhans on September 27, 2009, 04:25:59 pm
Quote from: dakarian
Alexhans, you started up a bet with Toonyman, saying that if he's willing to bet his life on Person turning up scum. He took that bet. You and Person start backing off and throwing accusation after accusation. Now you're pushing on the bandwagon for Archangel.Take a bath then. Webadict is our CONFIRMED TOWNIE. He wanted Archangel dead. I wanted any of the 4 lurkers dead. It's good enough to me.
I smell fowl. Ugly, UGLY fowl.
If you don't understand my strategy with Toonyman then you still have much to learn. Decision making is what makes town different from mafia many times. Town has different objectives than scum. Scum needs not to die. If Mr.Person was town and Toony scum he would never agree my bargain because he would know Mr.Person's flip. The only alternative is that they are both scum wich... given Toony's posts and flaming I think it's almost an absolute improbability. Toony-scum could've also gambled on people denying the validity of the bargain but knowing how lame and straightforward people act here it would be suicide.
So yeah. Toonyman is town. If people think that each time I call someone is town I'm buddying then they should go and read some mafia games.
Quote from: dakarian
Alex, you're a WOTer. I want, right now, a deep, strong analysis of exactly WHAT makes Mr. Person so town that you're willing to risk everything, including your credibility on it.Credibility won't do me any good if people are stubborn and short-sighted. I rather fight my fight to win a game than be mild all the way through defeat.
You people don't realize that each way in wich Mr.Person reacted was a genuine rage. Scum can try and fake rages, sure, but it's pretty hard to pull one of those convincingly. He has been active and tried to question people.
But the players in this game have taken it as an agressive interruption and questioning upon themselves. That scares them and they go for the lame approach of thinking that whoever attacks them is scum.
I won't let this town take a player who I think can be very helpful (and let every anti-town player easyly swim through) be lynched for a flawed concept.
Quote from: dakarian
I want a clear explanation of why he acted the way he did that caused you believe he's town and what you feel have been misread by the town. Do NOT give me theorycraft: that's pure WIFOM and you should know it. Just give me the facts based on the posts.blah blah blah... Everything I say, you may call WIFOM. If you don't want to listen to the truth when it dances naked in front of your eyes. That's your
call.
Quote from: dakarian
Excluding Webadict, there's not one person, ONE PERSON that I can declare THAT much town. You two don't question each other, don't poke at each other, and defend each other to the death. You claim that his meta game proved it to you. Explain then.. details.Bullshit. You and Josh claimed it was all "meta". I only say that the IRC experience I have with him helps me realize he is not acting scummy. How is it that neither of you bashed meph when he said I was acting more town than scum? Avoid the double standards, please.
Quote from: dakarian
Btw, what in the world is archangel supposed to claim that would clear him?Who said it should clear him? Why do you put a FAKE motive into my actions all the fucking time? Don't outhink me. You're clearly bad at it.
Quote from: dakarian
This isn't Paranormal where you can claim "human guardian" or "Alien survivor". All of these roles can be set to be scum or town. As such, how would a role claim do ANYTHING to dispel a person at this point?It would SPARK DISCUSSION. It would make him post. It would let me meditate about what he says. It would make others talk and react and oppose and agree... It would be EVERYTHING mafia has to be as opposed to NOTHING.
You can't expect every game to be as breakable as many games here... Some things are done to get reads.
Quote from: dakarian
It's funny. With just Person alone, I can see him neutral. Alex, though, is looking worse and worse to me, and his resistance towards that hammer when he was so willing to go trigger happy early on taints Person.blah... blah...
I explained why I was trigger happy.
I explained why I won't kill Mr.Person.
You seem to be implying that my defense on Mr.Person makes him scummier wich is one of the most dangerous attitudes one can take. If you think someone is scum. Lynch him. Don't link by proxymity just because someone is defending him. It doesn't make sense.
Quote from: dakarian
So for now I'll maintain the aim for Arc for the hammering. However, Alex, I'll want that analysis from you, because I'm starting to get an idea of who gets the actual lynch for day 1.I feel so threatened... ::) It's funny how you say that you're ok with the Arch hammer but still plan on blaming me for it if it happens to be a mislynch.
Quote from: Zai
After reading all the posts since my last one (more than one page on 50 per (I think)), I must say: All of this fighting is terrible. I suspect there's only 1 person involved in all that arguing that is actually scum, 2 tops. But this fighting does not bode well. TM, M.P, and Alex are the main contenders in it (with some Pandar, Cheeetar, dakarian, and Web thrown in), but I'm not confident enough in saying that one of them is scum to vote for them.You're leaving the sidelines practically out (That's pandar and cheeetar) and those are usually the most likely to be scum because they wont commit themselves to anything but push safely from the back.
Quote from: Zai
The lurkers need to just be mod-killed or something.If the mod doesn't do this it's the town's job to remove them before it's too late. It's THE SAME effect. IS it so hard to understand?
----------------------------
Fair enough. But you ignore the fact that Toonyman has acted so scummy with his hopping on waggons opportunistically that I wouldn't necessarily suffer if he, indeed, flipped town.I'm fairly sure Toonyman is just stupid. Not scum. Otherwise he wouldn't have taken my proposal...'Well, I want people to ignore everything he says, but I don't want him lynched because then he would turn up town and I might be suspected'
Also strangely this is about exactly the same thing Pandarsenic said about me (although that was probably warranted at the time).
What Toonyman is doing right now is pretty much what won Paranormal Mafia Round 9.
I could've said that Toony was wrong and that I had a town read on him but he is being such a pain in the ass that calling him stupid releases some steam in my system... He has played horribly anti-town in almost every game I've played with him so...
And, believe me, watching toonyman lynched would probably give me big pleasure but I usually tend to put the town's goals before my own personal leisure.
Quote from: Dakarian
Even the lurkers, at this point, have shown more than they think they have. "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice". When you go analyze them, think less "Who is being the least helpful" and more "Who is trying to maneuver through this like a mafia would?" Townies tend to be more 'anti-town' than Mafia.. at least at first glance.I'm going to make one of your cheesy questions:
What did you gain from each lurker with what they've done so far. Clear and complete please. (see how annoying it is?)
---------------------
Quote from: Alexhans
@Alexhans: To be honest, if you hadn't of yelled at everyone, I'd be lynched for sure, instead of just probably lynched.Yes! And this is what made it so important. I came forward and pushed for what I believed. Now things are unclear. People have to make choices. Easy bandwaggoning or vote hoping is looked upon.
If I had laid back as useless townie to avoid getting in the middle of things (wich is something town shouldn't be overly concerned with) you would've been quicklynched with no info but some waggons that would've probably been a null tell in general and people would've jumped on the next active person.
Right now. Wether any of my town reads or even me gets lynched or killed. This will be recorded. The moment and the reasons for each action.
-------------------------
IMPORTANT MESSAGE: Whoever uses WIFOM as argument again should seriously consider on giving a "real" reason. Otherwise you'll win killpoints in my vigbook.
-------------------
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=42096.msg783084#msg783084
makes a really good point about cheeetar. Cheeetar is focusing on one player but being careful of having enough excuses in case of a mislynch and is worrying in excess about semantics (That is a scumtell in my book. Scum uses semantics so it appears they have reasons for the mislynches they pull).
Don't forget about cheeetar.
---------------------
Quote from: Achangel
and I don't think Alex is being focused on enough.Focused enough on what?
Finally. Content. It wasn't so hard Archangel... was it?
---------------------
Quote from: Josh
Now Alex, I've become much more suspicious of you. From the last couple pages, you've: offered a bogus deal with no reasonable merit, slung insults, been very condescending to Toon and others as though you're the only person worth listening to, and as Dakarion said, you and MP have been backing eachother up this entire time, which seems very odd to me.blah blah blah... Does any of that makes me scummy?
1) bogus deal (WICH HAD A MERIT I EXPLAINED. I GOT A READ)
2) Slung insults (yeah, those surely must be from scum. NOt just some pissed off player)
3) Condescending (this may approach the nearest thing that you could call scummy. Yet, you're so much worse with your high attitude so give me a break)
4) Im clearly not getting listened to so...
5) Me and Mr.P "allegedly" backing each other up MUST MEAN WE ARE SCUM. Of course!!! dude... You should be a PI.
WHY? Try to explain why you think something is scummy. Don't say just because he did A... explain why A is scummy.
Quote from: Josh
You've ignored me completely. Now, I feel a bit disrespected here. You see, I've asked you questions, I've brought up reasonable points, and I've talked to you directly, so I don't think there's an excuse for this. If you'd like me to, I can bring up the multiple posts you've ignored.I honestly don't know where I ignored you. I probably felt it was unimpòrtant or obvious or something.
I feel disrespected when you guys pretend that I would defend a scummate in the open when he is about to be lynched and the worst part is that many of your suspicions on me come from the assumption that Mr.Person is scum. Double fail.
I'd very much like you to bring the questions I've ignored. I can't look for them right now. I've wasted enough time as it is.
Quote from: Josh
Now, I don't mean to be rude, but I have a feeling that you're stalling for time.See...!!! This is the kind of things that make me blow...
stalling for time??? Dude... We don't even know where most people stand on several issues? Why would you want me to rush? I rushed once already (against my usual playstyle) and it turned out really bad. We have time so we should use it to keep hunting.
Quote from: Josh
Didn't you say earlier that you had enough votes to hammer Archangel? Why haven't you? Wasn't he the person that you wanted to hammer most?QUote me where I said that. I DIDNT say that. Please, check what you say.
I say I'd kill any of the lurkers: brothernature, Redwarrior, boksi, archangel. Besides, archangel is ACTUALLY posting!!! Why would you want to rush his kill?
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=42096.msg783213#msg783213
I'm proud of you Archangel.
Quote from: Pandar
Whom do you consider most likely to be scum and what's your ideal scumteam, Archangel?oh god.. not again... how is this question useful?
Quote from: Webadict
Pandarsenic is active lurking.indeed he is.
Quote from: cheeetar
I think Alexhans is scum at the moment, as he hammered someone while giving them little chance to defend themself, and has been very abrasive to anyone who questions him. I also think you are scum, because of the possibility of you being scum buddies with Alexhans (yes I am aware that it would be stupid for scum to do this. However, that does not mean it is not true) and your previous WIFOM about your death.Same thing as before. It's almost as if you had copy pasted. You're going for the lowest probability just because it is possible.
-----------------------
Quote from: Josh
So Toon, I take it your entire accusation of Boksi is that he's lurking?Accusation? Who said anything about accusation? What toony did there is a pressure vote. They help.
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=42096.msg783788#msg783788
Toonyman. After this game you'll have your signature say: "I made an ass of myself in Bay 12 mafia".
Mr.P... at this point. I couldn't care less if you suspect me of buddying or not.
People are starting to try to fit facts into their beliefs... that only leads to screw up. Just how I paired Webadict and Dakarian and hence killed Webadict. It was suboptimal thinking.
-------
Quote from: josh
So Alex, did something provoke this little outburst? It doesn't seem to correspond with any recent posts.No... YOU dont think that it corresponds with any recent posts. YOU are not ME. You dont think they way I do. Maybe this painfully long post will help you understand me a bit better.
unvote, vote brothernature
I think we missed your opinions on just about anything. I'd like to hear them.
LAME FAKE EDIT:
UNVOTEI don't know what the heck you're talking about. Rephrase please. Why are you voting me exactly? Who did you unvote? Why?
damn to many WoT... all i want to know is why Alexhans agreed to a plan the reneged on it?
Post by: Alexhans on September 27, 2009, 04:29:23 pm
Post by: dakarian on September 27, 2009, 05:05:01 pm
Alex won't daykill Person. He won't daykill Arc. I think we're about done with him.
Unvote. Vote Alexhans
Do I need a deep analysis post or is my case made?
Post by: Mr.Person on September 27, 2009, 05:09:06 pm
Town tier: Chaoticjosh (Holy shit, it's content-man! Plus, the whole clearing Webadict thing), Webadict (Duh), Alexhans (WoT's everywhere, well thought out posts)
I dunno tier: ToonyMan, Cheeetar, Diakron
Lurker tier: Everybody else. Get in here or you'll find yourselves in scum tier soon!
@Dakarian: You WERE in I dunno tier, but your last MORONIC comment got you moved down to scum tier.
Post by: Diakron on September 27, 2009, 05:18:45 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 27, 2009, 05:21:49 pm
Seeing as I believe both you and Mr. Person are scum, I will vote Alexhans as you have the power to day-lynch.
Post by: dakarian on September 27, 2009, 05:31:41 pm
Doesn't that make it easy for the mafia to avoid death by just throwing a few posts?
Isn't that a little blindsided, killing someone who just isn't posting all that much? How many mafias have we played where the mafia has been pretty darn active? How many of us already know how quickly lurkers get spotlighted?
Isn't going after 'easy lynches' like ONLY lurkers a scumtell these days? No, that's not to you Person though you can answer. That's to the rest of you guys.
What I will say to you, Person, is this. Vote for me if you believe me so bad. I'd love to read this thread the day after you succeed in leading the town for my lynch. Go ahead and bet your life for your belief that 'moronic vote for Alex= scum'. I already said to Arc that dying while bringing a scum with them is just about as good as a town could ask for.
But that's moot for you. If you honestly, HONESTLY believe I'm scum then vote for me then show, in full glory, my scumminess to the rest of the town.
Btw, insults does NOT help your argument.
Post by: Diakron on September 27, 2009, 05:36:44 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on September 27, 2009, 06:03:18 pm
Unvote. Vote Alexhans.
Took you guys long enough.
Post by: Mr.Person on September 27, 2009, 07:00:30 pm
Alex was simply waiting for Angel to post? His daykill is only for lurkers?
Doesn't that make it easy for the mafia to avoid death by just throwing a few posts?
Isn't that a little blindsided, killing someone who just isn't posting all that much? How many mafias have we played where the mafia has been pretty darn active? How many of us already know how quickly lurkers get spotlighted?
Isn't going after 'easy lynches' like ONLY lurkers a scumtell these days? No, that's not to you Person though you can answer. That's to the rest of you guys.
What I will say to you, Person, is this. Vote for me if you believe me so bad. I'd love to read this thread the day after you succeed in leading the town for my lynch. Go ahead and bet your life for your belief that 'moronic vote for Alex= scum'. I already said to Arc that dying while bringing a scum with them is just about as good as a town could ask for.
But that's moot for you. If you honestly, HONESTLY believe I'm scum then vote for me then show, in full glory, my scumminess to the rest of the town.
Btw, insults does NOT help your argument.
Haha, now you're contradicting yourself. You claim that scum is oftentimes lurkers, yet then you claim that me and Alexhans are the scum, and we're probably the most active players.
mr. P: the only way i would even think about that being a good analysis is if you flipped town... i still think you are scum but alexhans said way back ( i will search for it and post it) that he agreed to a hammer on you and now you two seem to be buddying it up and writing post that support each other and discredit everyone else...
Yet the analysis is bad now just because I could be scum? Are you going to ignore everything I say just because I could be scum?
Very good alexhans, you lead us to believing you would hammer with us this whole time without saying if you would or wouldn't... almost as if you don't want Mr. P to be hammered... you two are playing as a team and there is only one team in mafia...
You need to learn the to count, there's the scum team and the town team.
Post by: webadict on September 27, 2009, 07:10:25 pm
OH MY GOD! Everything Mr.Person says is likely true. I have no idea what you morons are doing...
Mr.Person, what happened while I was gone?
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 27, 2009, 07:13:00 pm
But hell, if the confirmed townie wants to keep the scum hammerman alive, by all means....
Post by: Mr.Person on September 27, 2009, 07:24:08 pm
Mr.Person and Alexhans have a fucking hilarious definition of lurking and activelurking. I've been posting and assaulting Mr.Person all this time.
But hell, if the confirmed townie wants to keep the scum hammerman alive, by all means....
Alright, just because of this, I went back and looked through your posts. And you know what? You pretty much define active lurking and being scummy. The ONLY thing you've done ALL GAME is said and resaid, over and over, that because I think Alexhans is town and he think I'm town, we must both be scum. Nevermind the fact that you and Cheeetar are buddying up, no no no. Nevermind that we've both been pretty non-lurky, forget that shit. You know everybody else in the game? Ignore them, gotta kill that MrPerson+Alexhans team! Wanna know what's fishy? The way you were goading Alexhans into day killing me. Where's that enthusiasm now? Why weren't you yelling for Archangel to be day killed?
Post by: Zai on September 27, 2009, 07:34:31 pm
Quote from: ZaiThe lurkers need to just be mod-killed or something.If the mod doesn't do this it's the town's job to remove them before it's too late. It's THE SAME effect. IS it so hard to understand?
So are you saying that you whole-heartedly support the ChaoticJim role to use it to kill lurkers, even if they turn up town? Because I have problems with that, myself. It's a lot of pressure on a single person: to use it or not to use it, on people who very well may just turn up as inactive townies who really shouldn't have joined the game in the first place if they weren't intending to really play it, instead just using their town vote to bandwagon and not do much else? Of course, this dilemma can easily be taken care of if lurkers post just 3 times. But as I said previously, this just encourages "active" lurking, which is still a bad thing.
Scum tier: ... Zaithemaster (same, no suspicion at all all game) ...
What? Can you expand on this thought, as I'm not sure what you're talking about; you've mentioned next to nothing about me up to this point to indicate what you're talking about. I've had my suspicions, if you were talking about me being suspicious of others, and have brought several of them up. If you were talking about you and/or others not being suspicious of me, I can't exactly control that. As I said, I'm not really sure what exactly it is you're getting at with "same, no suspicion at all game". If you're saying that I've been active lurking, I'll just file that as a misunderstanding, as I don't believe I've ever been an active lurker, aside from maybe the first few Mafias I was in many months ago.
Jesus Christ. 5 new posts just while I was reading posts, 2 of which jumped on an Alexhans bandwagon. I FoS Diakron and just lightly do the same to TM for doing this; I "seem" to recall TM being heavily suspicious of Alex for a while now, but he's only voting for him once it's starting to get popular. I've been suspicious of Diakron previously, but whenever I've typed it up, I've realized that it really just came down to him doing more (some could say actually trying) than in past games.
And then another post while I revised my post. AND THEN 3 MORE WHEN I REVISED SOME MORE, one of which was Web effectively FoSing the Alexhans bandwagoners. Well, that was what I took out of it, anyway.
I am apparently a slow reader and typer when it comes to comprehension and clarity.
But anyways. I woke up feeling sick today and slept a ton, so my free time got significantly reduced. If I feel the same tomorrow I'll be going to the doctor.
Post by: webadict on September 27, 2009, 07:43:59 pm
Mr.Person and Alexhans have a fucking hilarious definition of lurking and activelurking. I've been posting and assaulting Mr.Person all this time.You can shut up. Everything you say right now is now pointless, because I don't care. I will keep hammerman alive, because he has a hammer, and I want him to use it.
But hell, if the confirmed townie wants to keep the scum hammerman alive, by all means....
And I said you were active lurking. THAT WAS ME. THE CONFIRMED TOWNIE.
Go to the back of the room.
Post by: dakarian on September 27, 2009, 07:58:31 pm
Wait, you're defending the hammerer because he has the hammer?
He's only planning to hammer a lurker. He's defending Person has a pure town with very little written cause for doing so (just some IRC past knowledge). The town has TWICE chosen someone to hammer and he rejects it.
I'm one of the first to LOVE the idea of a hammer+lynch Day 1. However, can you honestly, HONESTLY, believe whole heartedly that he is not scum? If not then please tell us, don't insult us. We NEED TO KNOW WHAT YOU SEE
Post by: Diakron on September 27, 2009, 08:09:32 pm
we just won't vote you...
Post by: dakarian on September 27, 2009, 08:13:57 pm
But we need more than just brow beating. The town needs facts. There's a mountain of evidence against Alex and Person and Alex holding the hammer does not make him town. We'll need counter evidence if we're to be turned around.
And don't use Person's posts to prove the case, considering how he's mangling everyone's arguments as it is.
Post by: Diakron on September 27, 2009, 08:15:50 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on September 27, 2009, 08:20:52 pm
So, to be sort of productive, I re-propose the hammering of Mr.Person.
@Diakron: As zai told me, web makes mistakes sometimes. And as you said, he isn't a god.
Post by: Diakron on September 27, 2009, 08:32:38 pm
Post by: Zai on September 27, 2009, 08:48:55 pm
ignore that post i am in a hated debate in 2 other mafias and i'm quite pissed right now its getting hard to post without swearing...
...What? What post are you referring to? Was this post just a quick cover-up edit of a severely implicating post (that may have been intended to go in the QuickTopic thread) like the one in Paranormal...4(?), the one that we had to reset the game because of (because it held the names of all the scum)? Or were you just referring to your last post? But I don't see swearing in your last 2 posts.
Post by: Diakron on September 27, 2009, 08:52:46 pm
Post by: webadict on September 27, 2009, 08:57:51 pm
Post by: Diakron on September 27, 2009, 09:01:51 pm
Post by: Zai on September 27, 2009, 09:02:25 pm
yes that was a miss post sorry
...Wait. You're admitting to making a post implicating yourself and your scum buddies?
Wow. You're honest, I guess. o,0
Or were you saying that that post was intended for another Mafia? In which case the stuff you said in the edit seems out of place. Not to mention that editing posts is forbidden, something you've berated brothernature for doing.
I'm thinking you're scum. RedWarrior0 can wait for now. Unvote and vote Diakron.
Post by: Diakron on September 27, 2009, 09:03:21 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on September 27, 2009, 09:05:38 pm
Quote from: ZaiThe lurkers need to just be mod-killed or something.If the mod doesn't do this it's the town's job to remove them before it's too late. It's THE SAME effect. IS it so hard to understand?
So are you saying that you whole-heartedly support the ChaoticJim role to use it to kill lurkers, even if they turn up town? Because I have problems with that, myself. It's a lot of pressure on a single person: to use it or not to use it, on people who very well may just turn up as inactive townies who really shouldn't have joined the game in the first place if they weren't intending to really play it, instead just using their town vote to bandwagon and not do much else? Of course, this dilemma can easily be taken care of if lurkers post just 3 times. But as I said previously, this just encourages "active" lurking, which is still a bad thing.Scum tier: ... Zaithemaster (same, no suspicion at all all game) ...
What? Can you expand on this thought, as I'm not sure what you're talking about; you've mentioned next to nothing about me up to this point to indicate what you're talking about. I've had my suspicions, if you were talking about me being suspicious of others, and have brought several of them up. If you were talking about you and/or others not being suspicious of me, I can't exactly control that. As I said, I'm not really sure what exactly it is you're getting at with "same, no suspicion at all game". If you're saying that I've been active lurking, I'll just file that as a misunderstanding, as I don't believe I've ever been an active lurker, aside from maybe the first few Mafias I was in many months ago.
Jesus Christ. 5 new posts just while I was reading posts, 2 of which jumped on an Alexhans bandwagon. I FoS Diakron and just lightly do the same to TM for doing this; I "seem" to recall TM being heavily suspicious of Alex for a while now, but he's only voting for him once it's starting to get popular. I've been suspicious of Diakron previously, but whenever I've typed it up, I've realized that it really just came down to him doing more (some could say actually trying) than in past games.
And then another post while I revised my post. AND THEN 3 MORE WHEN I REVISED SOME MORE, one of which was Web effectively FoSing the Alexhans bandwagoners. Well, that was what I took out of it, anyway.
I am apparently a slow reader and typer when it comes to comprehension and clarity.
But anyways. I woke up feeling sick today and slept a ton, so my free time got significantly reduced. If I feel the same tomorrow I'll be going to the doctor.
At the time, it was because nobody, at any point in time, had really said anything about you. You claim you can't control that, but generally, people who have a laid back approach tend to not get much suspicion. However, your well thought out post has convinced me that, even if you're scum, I want to see you around more. Besides, that scum spot is probably ToonyMan or Boksi or something.
Is this how Alexhans normally plays? Insistance that a person is town, based off meta-knowledge? An absolute Lynch all Lurkurs policy? Second, I doubt he would have hammered on the first Day 1 if the Cobrarsenic role ability was known. Better yet, he would have hammered a mafia guy.Yeah, Alexhans is VERY anti-lurker. I'm surprised you didn't pick up on that just from this game, much less any other game he's ever played in.
So, to be sort of productive, I re-propose the hammering of Mr.Person.
@Diakron: As zai told me, web makes mistakes sometimes. And as you said, he isn't a god.
What's with the resurgence of the Alex+Me hate, what exactly has convinced you guys to start voting us again?
Post by: dakarian on September 27, 2009, 09:27:53 pm
yes that was a miss post sorry
...Wait. You're admitting to making a post implicating yourself and your scum buddies?
Wow. You're honest, I guess. o,0
Or were you saying that that post was intended for another Mafia? In which case the stuff you said in the edit seems out of place. Not to mention that editing posts is forbidden, something you've berated brothernature for doing.
I'm thinking you're scum. RedWarrior0 can wait for now. Unvote and vote Diakron.
Quick question: which post was edited?
Post by: Diakron on September 27, 2009, 09:34:58 pm
yes that was a miss post sorry
...Wait. You're admitting to making a post implicating yourself and your scum buddies?
Wow. You're honest, I guess. o,0
Or were you saying that that post was intended for another Mafia? In which case the stuff you said in the edit seems out of place. Not to mention that editing posts is forbidden, something you've berated brothernature for doing.
I'm thinking you're scum. RedWarrior0 can wait for now. Unvote and vote Diakron.
ignore that post i am in a hated debate in 2 other mafias and i'm quite pissed right now its getting hard to post without swearing...
yes that was a miss post sorry
Post by: Zai on September 27, 2009, 09:39:18 pm
Quick question: which post was edited?
This one:
ignore that post i am in a hated debate in 2 other mafias and i'm quite pissed right now its getting hard to post without swearing...
But I know why you're asking: usually the post has the « Last Edit: ... by ... » bit at the end. However, if you can get the edit in within about 2 minutes (estimated; not sure if that's the exact limit), it won't include that 'Last Edit:' line. Diakron got to it in time.
[Pre-post Edit:] ...Diakron, that doesn't do anything for me. Please don't think so little of me so as to not read your posts, especially the very ones I quoted. Actually explain rather than just quoting posts that were not clear in the first place, please.
Post by: webadict on September 27, 2009, 09:41:41 pm
Read Beginner Mafia 3.Quick question: which post was edited?
This one:ignore that post i am in a hated debate in 2 other mafias and i'm quite pissed right now its getting hard to post without swearing...
But I know why you're asking: usually the post has the « Last Edit: ... by ... » bit at the end. However, if you can get the edit in within about 2 minutes (estimated; not sure if that's the exact limit), it won't include that 'Last Edit:' line. Diakron got to it in time.
[Pre-post Edit:] ...Diakron, that doesn't do anything for me. Please don't think so little of me so as to not read your posts, especially the very ones I quoted. Actually explain rather than just quoting posts that were not clear in the first place, please.
Just let him cool down.
Post by: Zai on September 27, 2009, 09:55:27 pm
Read Beginner Mafia 3.
Just let him cool down.
...I think I see now.
o,0
For now, unvote Diakron and revote RedWarrior0. Do more of your own work, please. Provide arguments. Don't just vote; vote for reasons that you can share. Don't just go off of other people's arguments.
I notice that when I say you shouldn't just be bandwagoning with the confirmed townie, you go directly against what said townie says to do. This has nervous newbie scum written all over it.
Post by: dakarian on September 27, 2009, 09:59:52 pm
Quote
Yeah, Alexhans is VERY anti-lurker. I'm surprised you didn't pick up on that just from this game, much less any other game he's ever played in.
What's with the resurgence of the Alex+Me hate, what exactly has convinced you guys to start voting us again?
Alex's failed bet against Toony was the tipping point: The exchange:
Quote from: Alexhans
I'll propose you this, though. If Mr.Person doesn't flip scum we lynch you... how about that? Im not actually sure if youre scum (because you always act anti-town to the max and have no frigging right to point one mistake i make) but removing you out of the game would cause me inmense pleasure.
Toonyman replies with a "WIFOM" bit, to which alexhans replies: Answer me! He even quotes his proposal. Toony pulls back and Alex replies with this:
Quote
Toonyman... You act as if you were sure... but then you say you won't do it... If you're scum and Mr.Person is town then you're not going to do this because you KNOW he will flip town. If you're town you don't know. But you're not acting like it.
Toonyman replies to that with this:
Quote
Yes then. I'll take your offer SCUM-BUCKET.
Day-Kill Mr.Person right now.
Alex replies with some insults about Toony's game playing, then eventually ends with this:
Quote
As I said. I won't hammer Mr.Person.
But I will give you the names of who should be lynched (scum and maybe one or two anti-town players just to make sure) before the day is over.
Then you'll maybe learn a bit about the game.
He made a bet.. A BET on Toonyman. When Toony started to pull back, Alex attacked him for it, saying that he's scum for not taking the bet.
Toony takes the bet, Alex pulls back insulting Toony bitterly.
You can't have it both ways. You can't make a bet and condemn a person for pulling back, then pull back and declare yourself town. I REEKS of bluffing and a very strong scumtell. That he insults someone he then believes is town is anti-town since you are belittling someone you SHOULD be working with.
That pretty much solidified things with me. I write a post asking him to explain himself regarding his constant defense of you. He ignores it for a while, then later insults me for it.
Activity doesn't mark you town. The way you carry yourself. The methods you use. The reasoning you use. Your ability to stay consistant, stay reckless, stay aggressive, stay untrusting, be willing to desire the truth, and your transparency make you town. Alex held that for a while so I left him be.
When he let Toony get the better of him he made a mistake.. a BIG mistake. Eventually, I realized the BIG reason why I wanted him town was because it would mean a free town kill. That's NOT a good reason in a game like this. Once that was done and once I saw that Alex was looking for excuses not to kill Archangel (a claim? Here? For discussion? Talking about his role won't make him less scummy), his hyperdefense of you, Person, and that all he's after are lurkers, of which we have no information for, it was clear.
The short post with the vote? It was half because I had already said what I needed to say about him. The other half was poetic irony: a notorious WOTer, after seeing the biggest WOT in his career, writes quick little post.
Why you? Well, when you two defend each other, it adds to your link. As such, when someone suspects Person, they link Alex in. When I suspect Alex, your defense of him makes me go "hmmmm"
I asked Alex, and I get insults. Will I get the same from you, Person, when I ask this?
Why do you feel, to the point of risking your own self, that Alexhans is town?
Post by: dakarian on September 27, 2009, 10:11:03 pm
Quick question: which post was edited?
This one:ignore that post i am in a hated debate in 2 other mafias and i'm quite pissed right now its getting hard to post without swearing...
But I know why you're asking: usually the post has the « Last Edit: ... by ... » bit at the end. However, if you can get the edit in within about 2 minutes (estimated; not sure if that's the exact limit), it won't include that 'Last Edit:' line. Diakron got to it in time.
[Pre-post Edit:] ...Diakron, that doesn't do anything for me. Please don't think so little of me so as to not read your posts, especially the very ones I quoted. Actually explain rather than just quoting posts that were not clear in the first place, please.
..oh. I didn't know about the 2 minutes thing.
Just read over Diakron in BM3. To be a little blunt, it's one of two things: either Diakron slipped in juggling several games at once and that bit is based on another game as he says in Beginner Mafia 3,
Or he's not only mafia here but is using Beginner Mafia 3 to cover himself here.
Note that the latter isn't a scumtell, but a DIRECT violation of game rules since you CANNOT use one game to defend yourself, even slightly, over the other (using BM3 to provide a reason for a mess up here).
For now, we're best to put that to the side for a second. MOD: You can analyze the quick chats and this chat. With that, you can tell whether that chat was meant for this game or another. If it's for this game and Diakron posted what was meant for mafia quick chat, I believe we'll need to look into whether the talk in BM3 is a violation AND I question whether it has ruined this game.
If it was meant for another game, then we can just let it be and put it to the side.
@Diakron
If you haven't gone to rest yet, go rest. I believe that was for another game and, thus, it shouldn't affect this game. Best to let it go for now.
@everyone else
Can we please calm down and hold on the snide comments and put downs? It's NOT helping us AT ALL.
Post by: Alexhans on September 27, 2009, 11:30:14 pm
I was gonna post the following...
Quote
"Well... I think I've spewed enough venom in this game to last for a while so from now on I'll be a nice and understanding person.
No more sarcasm for you to swallow.
The reason for the amount of poison I've spread over you comes from the fact that you've been all calling me stupid right in my face. Implying that I'm scum with Mr.Person is the worst insult any of you can say to me. For me to defend a scumbuddy that was obviously doomed I would have to be dumbest player ever. I'm not. It annoys me inmensely that you try to lynch me or accuse me with that basis. Especially when it's based in too many assumptions.
and the worst part is most of you were suspicious of Mr.Person but when I defended him you jumped on me without even knowing his allignment. It doesn't make sense for you to pair me with someone who hasn't yet flipped anything. Yours is much worse WIFOM than anything I've said but you're willing to blindly trust it.
All in all. People are going for what they would like the game to be instead of what it is. It would be so cool if we were both scum and we were defending each other. So easy. But it never is.
You've got to rethink this game and look everywhere trying to find the real deal. Not what seems like the great offer. It's a scam.
Time to meditate about our actions. Myself included."
But now I'm almost regreting it. I want to go back to cursing the world. I haven't analyzed exactly who bandwaggoned me or why but I'll look into it tomorrow. I expect real reasons. The fact that I may annoy you or something is not an excuse. The fact that you're trying to lynch a daykill town PR will be also remembered. The fact that people wanted to rush me into killing someone will also be remembered. The fact that people are not giving their opinions on most stuff will also be remember.
Good night.
Post by: Alexhans on September 27, 2009, 11:52:08 pm
Dakarian. I won't debate with you forever but I'm dissapointed that your response to the post you asked for was 3 lines of indignation and a vote. You've been clearly offended by my words wich I, honestly, don't really regret because it will teach you that you can NOT allow emotions to intervene with your game. I've been flamed pretty hard on some games but was able to realize that the other guy was just emotional and finally managed to find scum and convince him I was not the devil or something.
I will only encourage you to read back my reasons for pulling that stunt with Toonyman. If you read it convinced I'm scum you'll probably see it as a scumtell but it was actually a really useful play.
I've been using my killing power as a threat to get discussion (Notice how I even threatened to kill people who I obv. couldn't because they were nowhere near a vote majority). I never intended to use it as fast as I could (especially after the web experience) but to use my better judgement with it.
Post by: dakarian on September 28, 2009, 12:17:52 am
Simply put, when someone asks you a question, and you answer with "that's just bullshit" instead of ANSWERING the question, you've ruined your defense. Nevermind the swear, you could've said "oh, I'm so sorry, but that's not really the best way of going about things, but that's ok" and you STILL end up with a ruined defense.
You say it doesn't make sense for us to pair you with someone who hasn't flipped yet. Well, it doesn't make sense for you to go crazy to defend someone who hasn't flipped yet. I've all but said that I believe Toony is town and yet, if everyone bandwagoned them, I wouldn't destroy myself over it because I DO NOT KNOW HIS ALIGNMENT. I could be wrong and he could be scum. I would have to read over those posts they put. Even if I believe he's town, if I couldn't counter the arguments, I would be forced to accept them, or at least let them carry it out. If they had a poor argument, I would push them on it, but I wouldn't call them all morons for following suit. At worst, if they killed him and he flipped town, an analysis of the bandwagon might net a scum.
The link between you two exists for one and ONLY one reason: YOU KEEP REINFORCING IT! I've tried hard.. HARD to think of you two seperately. I considered you town and Person scum. I thought of Person as neutral while you were scum. I had you as town and him as neutral at one point (when Archangel was in my sights)
Yet every time.. EVERY SINGLE TIME I even poke at one of you.. even the smallest poke, I get BOTH of you attacking me, insulting me, threatening me, accusing me.
Now you want sympathy. "Oh no, the town thinks I'm some stupid idiot person scum. They are so blind and I can't do anything to save them. God, please bless these poor blind souls and bring them the Light of Truth before they doom themselves to Hell."
What would be my dream? If you had hammered Archangel, he flipped scum, and we strung up Panda as scum. After that, Person makes a mistake and we net the third scum, winning the game in 2 days (3 scum is part of the dream :P).
You being town with a well controlled hammer was my dream. YOU ruined that.
Either you aren't reading or you are playing dumb in that last part. "I" am the one who called for your death. I started the bandwagon, even to the point of counter arguing the Confirmed Townie to do it. You dying is on my head, and I'll gladly risk me being wrong and killing the 'town dayvig' to do it. Unlike your "Just kill the lurkers" self, "I" don't kill 'useless' or 'annoying' people. Bokai looks to be even more anti-town than all of the mafia combined, but I believe he's a genuine Uncaring Townie at the moment. I HATE the belittling your posts sometimes get peppered with, but trust me, I'm not hanging you for it.
I'm hanging you because I believe you are scum. I believe you are an aggressive scum that tried to use your hammer for a quick kill then got sidetracked by the Reset. I believe you use your aggressive and analysis to throw off the town and attempt to push lurkers to feed the town some easy kills. I believe you realized that you've been too close to Person and know that inconsistency gets people killed faster than anything else. You were right there: I go nuts over that.
I believe you used that pro-town look plus our dependence on your hammer to look pure and kept Person alive using those features. Don't fuss, it worked and worked WELL. We sat confused at you but in the end, we had a nice big bandwagon on Archangel. You even flung a nice 'wait for his claim' like a good well-trained townie.. even though this is the wrong game for such talk.
The problem was Toony. Toony is crazy. Toony gets tunnelvisioned very easily. He gets people angry with his mess. He's not useless though. An angry mafia dealing with unconventional attacks makes mistakes. They get angry, hostile, and will do anything to get him to just shut up.
Like make a bet they can't honor.
If you gave up on Person, I would've saw you as inconsistent, no matter how Person flipped. If you took the bet...well.. who knows since you decided not to. PERHAPS, if you let toony walk away and let it go, I would consider it a null tell: who knows what would happen, then just consider trusting you.
But you wanted toony to shut up. He stepped away and you thought "OO yes, That's scummy!" and charged. It would've worked: I would've saw it and joined you with pressuring him.
But you really should've just shut up about it and let him run. Instead you tried to kill. Toony doubled back on you and took the bet, trapping you in your own game.
But don't bother with Toony. The conversation ended soon after and everyone went on their own merry way until I showed up.
Now here we are. You're stuck and back on insulting the town again. Now you want sympathy with an emotional outburst. A pity Vector taught me better a while back.
I'll give you the advice I gave Arch. If you ARE somehow town, get to hunting and find the scum. Stop wasting time defending yourself and others endlessly and get to the attack. If you die, it'll clear your words and add weight and weaken your rivals. If you find a scum, the town will, after your death, push them, prod them, and perhaps lynch them. 1 town for 1 scum isn't a bad way to play after all. I'd give up a free day hammering for that.
In the least, stop moaning about your fate. You sound like a scum looking for some key, some words that will save your life. The problem: Not being willing to die is the ultimate scum tell.
So what's your response to that, Alex?
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 28, 2009, 12:29:46 am
I still don't like Mr.Person's behavior earlier, particularly in regards to telling us not to think for ourselves and just blindly follow Alexhans, and if Toony took the bet, he probably has a decent chance of success.
I think Toony's psychotic push succeeded in its purpose - causing scum to reveal themselves under pressure.
I'll unvote and return to Mr.Person because I want Toony's bet fulfilled if he still does.
Post by: Mr.Person on September 28, 2009, 01:46:58 am
Alexhans, I understand you know what you've been doing would be bad scum play - but like it or not, Mr.Person has tied himself to you through his constant agreement and you've reciprocated. While I could believe Mr.Person made such a mistake and forced you to defend him, I suspect you would deal with it in a different manner - bussing him then claiming he was scum trying to look like town by encouraging people to go with a townie who was wrong about things, to be specific. Of course, the fact that you're saying you wouldn't deal with it this way creates WIFOM, but that's pointless to get into. What isn't pointless is that Toony has accepted your bet and you won't go through with it. I'm fairly certain at least one of you, Mr.Person, Toony, and Dakarian is scum.
I still don't like Mr.Person's behavior earlier, particularly in regards to telling us not to think for ourselves and just blindly follow Alexhans, and if Toony took the bet, he probably has a decent chance of success.
I think Toony's psychotic push succeeded in its purpose - causing scum to reveal themselves under pressure.
I'll unvote and return to Mr.Person because I want Toony's bet fulfilled if he still does.
I love how you guys are leaving me out of the bet, like I'm some kind of spectator. I don't want to get day killed simply because not only will that be a waste of a day kill, but more importantly, IT WON'T TELL YOU ANYTHING EXCEPT MY ALIGNMENT! Ok, great, now what? I can see it now, you guys would simply ignore my scum list (Pandarsenic, Archangel, and any of Diakron, Broski, Cheeetar,ToonyMan, and Zaithemaster, in order of most likely to least likely, this is up to date). Hell, all the damn scum on the bandwagon are probably just looking to either A) Break up a powerful town base or B)Make Alexhans look innocent/ToonyMan look bad or C)Make a whole hose of bandwagoners look bad (Depends on how much of the wagon is scum and how much of it is town.
I STILL haven't gotten an answer I'm satisfied with that explain why people think I'm scummy. I've brought up points, I've argued, I've scumhunted, I've even pushed people (Sadly, on Pandarsenic made himself scummier, and I don't think I've explained that one, I'll do it tomorrow)
Hey, you guys wanna know why I think Alexhans is town? It's simple, actually. It's also meta. When Alexhans pulls crazy stunts or schemes, he's pretty much always town. He correctly guesses as scum that pulling the stunts puts a TON of suspicion on himself. And would you look at that, he's gotten a ton of suspicion on himself! Holy shit, it's like we're psychic! No, wait, it's called deductive reasoning.
I want somebody to say, with a straight face and without lying, that thinking another player is town is scummy, because I'll tell you for a FACT, thinking another player is town is both common and a null tell. Well, until we start getting roleflips, but since we don't, nobody has that kind of knowledge.
Now, if you think, say, that Alexhans is scummy, thinking I'm scum by relation is stupid, until the roleflip comes in. Yes, I've said it: Unless you can confirm the side of one player, you CANNOT get tells from other players based solely on their opinion of each other.
I'm willing to risk that Alexhans is scum because, at the moment, I feel very confident he's town. If he roleflips scum and then the rest of you guys bandwagon on me, I will at least post my suspicion list and put as much pressure as possible onto anybody I think is scum. I'd probably do my damndest to argue that he tricked me, but I already know it would never work (This, btw, is the reason why I would NEVER do this if we were both scum. As soon as one of us dies, the other one is the next lynched, guaranteed.). My expectation is for him to flip town, however. In fact, in a best case scenario, he never flips until the game is over. I just don't want people I think are townies to be lynched. What, exactly, is wrong with that?
Hell, I haven't really seen anything that convinces me Alexhans is scum either.
@Dakarian: You're timid and afriad of death. Damnit, if you think ToonyMan is town, you should be defending him from anything you think is wrong. Anything less is, well, scummy. As you said, only scum is afraid of what their image is or death.
Quote from: Cheeetar
The link between you two exists for one and ONLY one reason: YOU KEEP REINFORCING IT! I've tried hard.. HARD to think of you two seperately. I considered you town and Person scum. I thought of Person as neutral while you were scum. I had you as town and him as neutral at one point (when Archangel was in my sights)
Yet every time.. EVERY SINGLE TIME I even poke at one of you.. even the smallest poke, I get BOTH of you attacking me, insulting me, threatening me, accusing me.
You've admitted it, since the link exists only because we reinforce it, it can't exist because we're on the scum team :D
On a more serious note, well no shit Sherlock, what were you expecting, us to roll over and bow to your will? I think Alexhans is town, so I defend him. He thinks I'm town, he defends me. ANYTHING ELSE WOULD BE SCUMMY, PERIOD.
Whil I was typing this, I just realized something. Imagine, for a second, Alexhans is scum and I'm town. Would he not of, you know, acted on his bet with ToonyMan? Not only would it kill off a townie (At the town's request, no less), but it also would have made him seem less scummy and put a major egg on ToonyMan's face as well as half the rest of the town. This just makes me all the more certain of Alexhans not being scum. Of course, it could be, say, a ToonyMan Alexhans scumteam, but if that's the case, I precongratulate you two on managing to be hard to detect... but also really stupid.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 28, 2009, 03:35:40 am
Post by: Archangel on September 28, 2009, 05:16:51 am
I will rephrase that, since you seem to have misinterpreted it. People weren't questioning, doubting or suspecting you enough.Quote from: Archangeland I don't think Alex is being focused on enough.Focused enough on what?
Archangel (His comment about Alexhans not being focused on enough is total bullshit, he's stealing the spotlight right now).See? Mr.Person read it right.
Anyway, I'm going to do other stuff for a while, so I probably won't say anything else. But I'm willing to die, and If I do, I want Alex to come with me.
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 28, 2009, 08:02:34 am
MP, don't think anything I say is an insult to your intelligence, but you picked up on a theory I've been entertaining for awhile:
Quote from: Mr.Person
I'm willing to risk that Alexhans is scum because, at the moment, I feel very confident he's town. If he roleflips scum and then the rest of you guys bandwagon on me, I will at least post my suspicion list and put as much pressure as possible onto anybody I think is scum. I'd probably do my damndest to argue that he tricked me, but I already know it would never work (This, btw, is the reason why I would NEVER do this if we were both scum. As soon as one of us dies, the other one is the next lynched, guaranteed.). My expectation is for him to flip town, however. In fact, in a best case scenario, he never flips until the game is over. I just don't want people I think are townies to be lynched. What, exactly, is wrong with that?
If there's any reason at all to believe you're town, it's this. A scum Alex wouldn't defend a scum MP, but a scum Alex would defend a town MP. It's kind of like in Paranormal 9, day 1, where I convinced Toon so completely of my towniness, that I had him defending me. I think this is what Alex has done to you, fooled you, and has manipulated you into defending him.
But there's an point in your rationale that bothers me MP:
Quote
On a more serious note, well no shit Sherlock, what were you expecting, us to roll over and bow to your will? I think Alexhans is town, so I defend him. He thinks I'm town, he defends me. ANYTHING ELSE WOULD BE SCUMMY, PERIOD.
Whil I was typing this, I just realized something. Imagine, for a second, Alexhans is scum and I'm town. Would he not of, you know, acted on his bet with ToonyMan? Not only would it kill off a townie (At the town's request, no less), but it also would have made him seem less scummy and put a major egg on ToonyMan's face as well as half the rest of the town. This just makes me all the more certain of Alexhans not being scum. Of course, it could be, say, a ToonyMan Alexhans scumteam, but if that's the case, I precongratulate you two on managing to be hard to detect... but also really stupid.
In the first two sentences, you say that if you think someone's town, you should defend him, period. If I may ask a question, should you still do this if you don't have solid evidence? Should you do this if you have to resort to broken/half-assed arguments? Should you do this even if it means potentially poisoning the town's momentum? You believe too completely in your reasoning, and you've never bothered to go "Well, I could be wrong..." and rethink your position. No, you just found an answer, and chose to stand by it no matter what, which brings me to my next point:
You see MP, the reason I think everyone's giving you a hard time is because you believe too strongly in absolutes and ideals. Where someone in a situation will always pursue the 'correct' choice for that person with no room for deviation, where logic is linear instead of branching, and people never make mistakes or doubt themselves. Alex made a large mistake, multiple actually, and like it or not, he's paying for it.
My thoughts on Alex have already been summed up most superbly by Dakarion.
Post by: Alexhans on September 28, 2009, 08:03:20 am
Cursing the world is part of what gets you in this situation. It means you aren't arguing constructively. It means you'll make mistakes you don't plan to. It'll mean you aren't playing as well as you should. You and Mr. person didn't just piss off everyone with your bad attitude, you ruined your defense.Wrong. I've achieved much more than you could've imagined with my cursing, sarcasm and agressiveness. I have been thinking clearly. It was not emotion just directed agression. Wich is a totally valid strategy and it sometimes pay off.
You're just going for ad hominem. Saying that my attitude has invalidated my arguments. If you're clear headed enough to analyze it you'll notice that, no matter what adjectives I might've used to refer to people, I've always argumented stuff trying to leave no loose ends.
Simply put, when someone asks you a question, and you answer with "that's just bullshit" instead of ANSWERING the question, you've ruined your defense. Nevermind the swear, you could've said "oh, I'm so sorry, but that's not really the best way of going about things, but that's ok" and you STILL end up with a ruined defense.I disagree. After saying it's bullshit. Wich means that I strongly disagree with it I follow up with an explanation. The fact that people want to ignore them because they don't like how I've been prodding everyone just means that they're not ready to leave emotional ties.
What can I say. That's your point of view. Saying that someone's defense is ruined if he is not The popular guy
You say it doesn't make sense for us to pair you with someone who hasn't flipped yet. Well, it doesn't make sense for you to go crazy to defend someone who hasn't flipped yet. I've all but said that I believe Toony is town and yet, if everyone bandwagoned them, I wouldn't destroy myself over it because I DO NOT KNOW HIS ALIGNMENT. I could be wrong and he could be scum. I would have to read over those posts they put. Even if I believe he's town, if I couldn't counter the arguments, I would be forced to accept them, or at least let them carry it out. If they had a poor argument, I would push them on it, but I wouldn't call them all morons for following suit. At worst, if they killed him and he flipped town, an analysis of the bandwagon might net a scum.I didn't go crazy ar first. But as soon as I defended him people started asking me why more and more and misinterpreting both of our actions and posts so I went gradually more convinced of my read.
I didn't destroy myself over Mr.Person. I fought for what I believe in. I believe this town was playing in the worst possible way and I needed to come forward and turn this game upside down.
The link between you two exists for one and ONLY one reason: YOU KEEP REINFORCING IT! I've tried hard.. HARD to think of you two seperately. I considered you town and Person scum. I thought of Person as neutral while you were scum. I had you as town and him as neutral at one point (when Archangel was in my sights)if I trust Josh. If I trust Webadict. Hell! If I trust that you are town... And any of you corresponds me... Does that meann that we are on a scumteam? NO. It doesn't.
Yet every time.. EVERY SINGLE TIME I even poke at one of you.. even the smallest poke, I get BOTH of you attacking me, insulting me, threatening me, accusing me.
Remember beginners mafia? Linking 2 people to make a decision is not a good idea unless you have a flip. I thought you would've learned that by now.
Now you want sympathy. "Oh no, the town thinks I'm some stupid idiot person scum. They are so blind and I can't do anything to save them. God, please bless these poor blind souls and bring them the Light of Truth before they doom themselves to Hell."I know someone was going to say something like this. I'm just tired of being agressive for the moment. It takes a good deal of thinking to know how far you can go without completely antagonizing people. I don't care if you hate me for a while as long as you learn something from it. I CAN do something to save you. I''m trying my best at the moment. You've called me an idiot and keep calling me one so don't pretend to be offended if you think that phrase you've posted is what comes from my mind (wich is not, but I've long gone surrendered to the fact that you think you know what goes on inside my head)
All in all. You've said Im scum because Im linked with Mr.Person. Wich is ridiculous. Because I haven't quickhammered anyone yet when random people kept nagging me to do so. I've been agressive. I've pulled at stunt wich ended with me calling Toonyman town.
This sounds like Cheeetar's case of Pandar. The only difference is that I've done so much more things that there's also so much more things you can make up with my posts to build a fake case.
What would be my dream? If you had hammered Archangel, he flipped scum, and we strung up Panda as scum. After that, Person makes a mistake and we net the third scum, winning the game in 2 days (3 scum is part of the dream :P).Naiveness doesn't help in mafia.
You being town with a well controlled hammer was my dream. YOU ruined that.If town is not good enough for me I can't really forfeit my responsability to hammer right, can I? I can still hammer and you might agree. If I end up doing so it will probably need Webadict's seal of approval because he is confirmed town and because he is pretty good at mafia. See how he moved on past my mistake? No grudges.
Either you aren't reading or you are playing dumb in that last part. "I" am the one who called for your death. I started the bandwagon, even to the point of counter arguing the Confirmed Townie to do it. You dying is on my head, and I'll gladly risk me being wrong and killing the 'town dayvig' to do it. Unlike your "Just kill the lurkers" self, "I" don't kill 'useless' or 'annoying' people. Bokai looks to be even more anti-town than all of the mafia combined, but I believe he's a genuine Uncaring Townie at the moment. I HATE the belittling your posts sometimes get peppered with, but trust me, I'm not hanging you for it.If I just killed the Lurkers Archangel would be dead by now. If I don't pretend to enforce strongly the Lynch all lurkers policy (Wich I've never had to use in mafiascum but I need to here) then lurkers know there's no need to come out because no one will lynch them for lurking because it is a null tell.
If you leave every "uncaring townie" a free pass to the latter parts of the game you'll find yourself in a game where the only ones who care are scum. Bad idea.
You're saying you will assume full responsability if you mislynch me. That's the same mistake you did in beginners. You GAMBLE with an alignment at the risk of your own life. Remember when you were after a townie and proposed people to lynch yourself and then him? You're acting the same here. When you say I risk myself because of my Mr.Person read you're doing much worse by pretending to know my allignment and suggesting that if you're wrong youll take the fall for it. Guess what? You're wrong. That's lesson 2: Admittance of mistakes before you make more of them, specially ones you can't take back.
I'm hanging you because I believe you are scum. I believe you are an aggressive scum that tried to use your hammer for a quick kill then got sidetracked by the Reset. I believe you use your aggressive and analysis to throw off the town and attempt to push lurkers to feed the town some easy kills. I believe you realized that you've been too close to Person and know that inconsistency gets people killed faster than anything else. You were right there: I go nuts over that.You're seriously contradicting yourself.
How can you accuse of me of feeding the town with easy kills and also blame me for not fast hammering Archangel.
You're basically saying that wichever way I went I would've been scummy to you.
Anyway. You're wrong. You've been emotionally affected and now are trying to fit things the way you want them to be.
I believe you used that pro-town look plus our dependence on your hammer to look pure and kept Person alive using those features. Don't fuss, it worked and worked WELL. We sat confused at you but in the end, we had a nice big bandwagon on Archangel. You even flung a nice 'wait for his claim' like a good well-trained townie.. even though this is the wrong game for such talk.Emtpy WOT is empty. You're working everything in your head to fit your theory instead of thinking what possible reasons could I have to do what I did. You're on Alexhans-scum mindset. You won't realize the truth unless you take some steps back, wipe everything and start again.
The problem was Toony. Toony is crazy. Toony gets tunnelvisioned very easily. He gets people angry with his mess. He's not useless though. An angry mafia dealing with unconventional attacks makes mistakes. They get angry, hostile, and will do anything to get him to just shut up.
Like make a bet they can't honor.
By your Toonyman theory Webadict (our confirmed townie) is scum. He wanted nothing else for Toonyman than to shut up.
If you gave up on Person, I would've saw you as inconsistent, no matter how Person flipped. If you took the bet...well.. who knows since you decided not to. PERHAPS, if you let toony walk away and let it go, I would consider it a null tell: who knows what would happen, then just consider trusting you.You're just saying that whatever path I chose and choose in the future there will be an explanation that concludes I'm scum.
But you wanted toony to shut up. He stepped away and you thought "OO yes, That's scummy!" and charged. It would've worked: I would've saw it and joined you with pressuring him.You're clearly mistaking a mafia game with a drama movie. You keep avoiding my explanation and keep making one reason after another to explain all the twisted schemes that I've been making and how they've failed or not.
But you really should've just shut up about it and let him run. Instead you tried to kill. Toony doubled back on you and took the bet, trapping you in your own game.
Problem is...
You're starting to believe them
But don't bother with Toony. The conversation ended soon after and everyone went on their own merry way until I showed up.After I insulted you your feelings were hurt and the only explanation you can find to appease your mind is that I'm scum.
Now here we are. You're stuck and back on insulting the town again. Now you want sympathy with an emotional outburst. A pity Vector taught me better a while back.
I'll give you the advice I gave Arch. If you ARE somehow town, get to hunting and find the scum. Stop wasting time defending yourself and others endlessly and get to the attack. If you die, it'll clear your words and add weight and weaken your rivals. If you find a scum, the town will, after your death, push them, prod them, and perhaps lynch them. 1 town for 1 scum isn't a bad way to play after all. I'd give up a free day hammering for that.You try to give me advice but ignore every advice I gave you. Having a lot of bandwaggon hoppers behind your back doesn't make you right. I think I have a bit more experience (here and there) than you and we could both learn from each other.
Don't pretend I havent been attacking. I've been attacking far more than any other player in this game and that's what's pissed so many people.
If I die you'll just keep ignoring what I say and probably pull some other mislynches.
Quote from: dakarian
In the least, stop moaning about your fate. You sound like a scum looking for some key, some words that will save your life. The problem: Not being willing to die is the ultimate scum tell.What's my fate? Don't talk as if I was already lynched. I'm not.
"Not being willing to die is the ultimate scum tell?" Excuse me but what the fuck!! You like being replaced in a sport? No, you want to keep doing your best for the team. Not cheer from the outside. You might like to die as town. I don't and a mislynch is always a waste. Im NEVER cool with a mislynch on a useful player.
Quote from: dakarian
So what's your response to that, Alex?I don't think you care too much. You're already getting some kind of sick pleasure for having me where you want me. This is your one and only chance to get things right. You've been tunnel visioning on me and calling most lurkers (active or not) "uncaring townies"...
Time to scumhunt in general... right? Because after I use my kill... you need to lynch someone.
Alexhans, I understand you know what you've been doing would be bad scum play - but like it or not, Mr.Person has tied himself to you through his constant agreement and you've reciprocated. While I could believe Mr.Person made such a mistake and forced you to defend him, I suspect you would deal with it in a different manner - bussing him then claiming he was scum trying to look like town by encouraging people to go with a townie who was wrong about things, to be specific. Of course, the fact that you're saying you wouldn't deal with it this way creates WIFOM, but that's pointless to get into. What isn't pointless is that Toony has accepted your bet and you won't go through with it. I'm fairly certain at least one of you, Mr.Person, Toony, and Dakarian is scum.You are certain that 1 of 4 people is scum? what a bold guess... ::) You're saying the same things dakarian said...
I still don't like Mr.Person's behavior earlier, particularly in regards to telling us not to think for ourselves and just blindly follow Alexhans, and if Toony took the bet, he probably has a decent chance of success.
I think Toony's psychotic push succeeded in its purpose - causing scum to reveal themselves under pressure.
I'll unvote and return to Mr.Person because I want Toony's bet fulfilled if he still does.
The fact that you pretend that Toonyman's random play revealed scum only adds insult to injury. I've succesfully read 2 people that have misread me and are about to fail really hard. I don't think they're succeeding.
----------------------------
Anyway, I'm going to do other stuff for a while, so I probably won't say anything else. But I'm willing to die, and If I do, I want Alex to come with me.see? This is the kind of emotional things that we all need to get rid off to get to the next level.
I hope you remain active when you can, by the way.
--------------------------
I think we still have a day and a couple of hours ahead of us. I don't know what the current votecount is but I'm guessing I'm at the top.
I will use my kill unless Webadict says otherwise regardless of who is leading the votes.
After I use my kill:
Don't lynch the following people without proof :
Mr.Person, Josh, Dakarian, Toonyman.
and THINK. And kill the lurkers before they become a liability. Scum won't kill them.
RedWarrior and brothernature are my favourite kills. Where are they and Boksi anyway?
If Web manages to convince people and waggon any of them I'll be glad to send them with the fishes.
Post by: Alexhans on September 28, 2009, 08:26:55 am
Heh, wow. I really don't know how to say this, but Webadict, you're wrong. Alexhans is scum.Well... Town doesn't want to learn. Town will find out the hard way.
blah blah... same old stuff... I'm failing horribly and tunnel visioning. After active town players get killed at night I won't know what to do and blame it on others.
Web... I'm waiting for your thumbs up... whenever you want. I push the button. You know what to do with this game.
Dakarian... Learn from this... and lynch scum for a change.
And to all of you who keep thinking I'm scum despite all the proof that lies before your eyes:
If I was scum... And Archangel was town... I would've hammered him.
If I was scum... And Archangel was my scumbuddy. I would've hammered him. Seriously... Do you think I would doubt for a second to buss a player who's playstyle I dissaprove? I don't think he could add too much to a scumteam. I know it from one paranormal.
But I can already hear you saying: "weeeefom, wifom, wifum."
wich is wrong because WIFOM means outguessing someone into a vicious circle. There would be no choice for me if I was scum but to hammer Archangel. None. You don't need to outguess anything. It's obvious. But you're going to ignore it.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 28, 2009, 08:27:37 am
I didn't say that. Don't say I said that.Quote from: CheeetarThe link between you two exists for one and ONLY one reason: YOU KEEP REINFORCING IT! I've tried hard.. HARD to think of you two seperately. I considered you town and Person scum. I thought of Person as neutral while you were scum. I had you as town and him as neutral at one point (when Archangel was in my sights)
Yet every time.. EVERY SINGLE TIME I even poke at one of you.. even the smallest poke, I get BOTH of you attacking me, insulting me, threatening me, accusing me.
You've admitted it, since the link exists only because we reinforce it, it can't exist because we're on the scum team :D
On a more serious note, well no shit Sherlock, what were you expecting, us to roll over and bow to your will? I think Alexhans is town, so I defend him. He thinks I'm town, he defends me. ANYTHING ELSE WOULD BE SCUMMY, PERIOD.
Post by: Alexhans on September 28, 2009, 08:32:23 am
Alex: We won't gain much by lynching Red or brothernature as they have been mostly lurking, not commenting much. If you, say, lynched Mr. Person then you would have a lot of information from his alignment flip. Not that anything I can say will make a difference in who you lynch.Man! You're just making a statement that you will allow people to continue lurking. If you don't lynch them they will continue to do nothing. Maybe they're not even reading (Wich means they wont find scum).
If I, say, lynched Mr.Person I would be lynching a player who I think is town wich would be dumb. By then you'd finally realize that Alex+Mr.Person was the stupidest thing that you could've ever imagined.
Do the following: Assume Mr.Person town and tell me what you get from it.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 28, 2009, 08:36:48 am
Post by: Alexhans on September 28, 2009, 08:40:01 am
Dakarian is scum, Pandar is scum, Josh is scum.1) Could you walk me through that process? Why would they be scum if Mr.Person flipped town?
2) Why wouldn't you?
3)Do you think all lurkers would be town then?
4) Do you feel that Dakarian is not genuinely scumhunting?
5) Does Josh's play doesn't count in his favour?
Post by: Alexhans on September 28, 2009, 08:41:43 am
Post by: Cheeetar on September 28, 2009, 08:42:27 am
Post by: Cheeetar on September 28, 2009, 08:44:38 am
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 28, 2009, 09:06:02 am
Heh, wow. I really don't know how to say this, but Webadict, you're wrong. Alexhans is scum. I'm not sure what logic you're using or if you have some special info you're not telling us, but any plans you might have of forcing Alex to daykill for the town is spoilt completely by the fact that Alex isn't going to listen to anyone except himself, and he'll fabricate whatever excuse is necessary to keep from using it on who he doesn't want to use it on.finally you realize that Mr.Person + Alexhans doesn't make sense...
MP, don't think anything I say is an insult to your intelligence, but you picked up on a theory I've been entertaining for awhile:Quote from: Mr.PersonI'm willing to risk that Alexhans is scum because, at the moment, I feel very confident he's town. If he roleflips scum and then the rest of you guys bandwagon on me, I will at least post my suspicion list and put as much pressure as possible onto anybody I think is scum. I'd probably do my damndest to argue that he tricked me, but I already know it would never work (This, btw, is the reason why I would NEVER do this if we were both scum. As soon as one of us dies, the other one is the next lynched, guaranteed.). My expectation is for him to flip town, however. In fact, in a best case scenario, he never flips until the game is over. I just don't want people I think are townies to be lynched. What, exactly, is wrong with that?
If there's any reason at all to believe you're town, it's this. A scum Alex wouldn't defend a scum MP, but a scum Alex would defend a town MP. It's kind of like in Paranormal 9, day 1, where I convinced Toon so completely of my towniness, that I had him defending me. I think this is what Alex has done to you, fooled you, and has manipulated you into defending him.
But there's an point in your rationale that bothers me MP:QuoteOn a more serious note, well no shit Sherlock, what were you expecting, us to roll over and bow to your will? I think Alexhans is town, so I defend him. He thinks I'm town, he defends me. ANYTHING ELSE WOULD BE SCUMMY, PERIOD.
Whil I was typing this, I just realized something. Imagine, for a second, Alexhans is scum and I'm town. Would he not of, you know, acted on his bet with ToonyMan? Not only would it kill off a townie (At the town's request, no less), but it also would have made him seem less scummy and put a major egg on ToonyMan's face as well as half the rest of the town. This just makes me all the more certain of Alexhans not being scum. Of course, it could be, say, a ToonyMan Alexhans scumteam, but if that's the case, I precongratulate you two on managing to be hard to detect... but also really stupid.
In the first two sentences, you say that if you think someone's town, you should defend him, period. If I may ask a question, should you still do this if you don't have solid evidence? Should you do this if you have to resort to broken/half-assed arguments? Should you do this even if it means potentially poisoning the town's momentum? You believe too completely in your reasoning, and you've never bothered to go "Well, I could be wrong..." and rethink your position. No, you just found an answer, and chose to stand by it no matter what, which brings me to my next point:
You see MP, the reason I think everyone's giving you a hard time is because you believe too strongly in absolutes and ideals. Where someone in a situation will always pursue the 'correct' choice for that person with no room for deviation, where logic is linear instead of branching, and people never make mistakes or doubt themselves. Alex made a large mistake, multiple actually, and like it or not, he's paying for it.
My thoughts on Alex have already been summed up most superbly by Dakarion.
Now you drop all your previous suspicions on Mr.Person and go after me...
Everything I do or say you'll try to make it fit in your Alexhans scum mindset. I repeat... I'm not stupid. I know how to avoid being suspected if I want to at the cost of scumhunting less.
Once I kill myself I hope you start thinking for a change about HOW SCUM ACTS. Remember how I won paranormals as scum. I LURKED!!!! That was the way to win. Being active in bay12 gets you lynched. People only look at those who are active and apparently there's not enough experienced players who can think clearly. Of the fantastic 4... 2 are failing hard (one is possible scum though)...
I don't know how you can fail so hard and make the same mistake of all b12 games.
Anyway... Once I kill myself (no, it's not a bluff, it's a measure to ensure we might have a chance to lynch scum today) you should lynch Redwarrior or brothernature.
Be careful with Zai, Cheeetar, Pandar and meph... Those are the ones that post carefully and try not to antagonize people... Those are the potentially active scum players.
Rather than respond to you via PM Alex, I'll respond to you here. To be honest, it reeks of desperation.
For one, you wanted to appeal to me personally to get to me to unvote you. Secondly, you've played the "Only active players get lynched" card to death and back, and it's yet to convince me. Thirdly, I feel the "I'll kill myself because I'm so town" statement is a gambit, and your very last resort, and you even insist that it's not a bluff. The only thing I can say Alex, is that I believe it IS a bluff, so I'm calling it.
Also, this is probably just me, but I thought that everything Dakarion said was pretty reasonable, but you just went through every point and basically said they were all tainted with emotional garbage and thus invalid, which I think really doesn't defeat any of his points.
However, on the slim chance that it does turn out I'm wrong, then I promise you Alex, I'll take your advice and I'll also pick up the lynch all lurkers policy. Is that a deal I can make with you Alex?
Post by: Alexhans on September 28, 2009, 09:09:34 am
They are, in fact, my words. I just find odd thay no one would acknowledge them before. It doesn't make sense that so many people on different sides all pretend that if we throw a dice I'm scum because it it came out . I'm scum because it came out 2. And 3, 4,5 6...
Dakarian is scum, Pandar is scum, Josh is scum.What did you mean by this? Can you answer my questions based on the assumption that Mr.Person died and flipped town?
Post by: Alexhans on September 28, 2009, 09:23:47 am
Quote from: josh
Rather than respond to you via PM Alex, I'll respond to you here. To be honest, it reeks of desperation.You dissapoint me, Josh. I pm-ed you for a reason. I don't know if you do this with every person you pm. When you pm-ed me in other games I didn't post it in the thread. You're trying to use it as further proof to push a fake case.
For one, you wanted to appeal to me personally to get to me to unvote you. Secondly, you've played the "Only active players get lynched" card to death and back, and it's yet to convince me. Thirdly, I feel the "I'll kill myself because I'm so town" statement is a gambit, and your very last resort, and you even insist that it's not a bluff. The only thing I can say Alex, is that I believe it IS a bluff, so I'm calling it.
Also, this is probably just me, but I thought that everything Dakarion said was pretty reasonable, but you just went through every point and basically said they were all tainted with emotional garbage and thus invalid, which I think really doesn't defeat any of his points.
That was my first pm (as I dont really like the feature because it allows for game breaking strategies far to often) and it was meant for you. What odd satisfaction do you get by posting it here when I havent flipped? It's just a betrayal to good sportsmanship. Forgive me but, you suck man. Not only you're mislynching me but you mock me while you're at it.
I wasn't intending on showing everyone that I was definetly going to kill myself because now they'll think its a bluff and wont play until I do so.
Quote from: Josh
However, on the slim chance that it does turn out I'm wrong, then I promise you Alex, I'll take your advice and I'll also pick up the lynch all lurkers policy. Is that a deal I can make with you Alex?It's not a slim chance. It's a fact and you'll need to deal with it. No excuses. It's not so much lynch all lurkers but allow no lurkers. If you have to lynch them to get a read... do so.
You need reads in mafia. READS. Towntells and scumtells.
Post by: dakarian on September 28, 2009, 09:33:14 am
I love how you guys are leaving me out of the bet, like I'm some kind of spectator. I don't want to get day killed simply because not only will that be a waste of a day kill, but more importantly, IT WON'T TELL YOU ANYTHING EXCEPT MY ALIGNMENT! Ok, great, now what? I can see it now, you guys would simply ignore my scum list (Pandarsenic, Archangel, and any of Diakron, Broski, Cheeetar,ToonyMan, and Zaithemaster, in order of most likely to least likely, this is up to date). Hell, all the damn scum on the bandwagon are probably just looking to either A) Break up a powerful town base or B)Make Alexhans look innocent/ToonyMan look bad or C)Make a whole hose of bandwagoners look bad (Depends on how much of the wagon is scum and how much of it is town.Panda is already on my own possible scumlist. Archangel... go speak to Alex as to why he's not dead yet because if I had the hammer, he'd gone once that majority kicked in.
Diakron, Zathemaster. I need to look deeper on those two. I wouldn't mark them town by any stretch.
Broksi: He needs more pressure. At the moment, he smells of 'useless townie', but no reason to let him fly under the radar for that.
Cheeetar: possible scum
Toonyman: Only one I'd argue against, due to his hunting and his willingness to take up that bet. Of course, it would be helpful if you spent less time defending yourself and Alex and more time scrounging up info on him...
Stop playing the town for dumb stupid sheep that NEED your guidance to survive. If you are a townie, then be ready to DIE like a townie. If you have vital proof that one of those is mafia and you die without putting it out then it's your fault for spending more time defending than attacking. If you still need more time to accuse and question then you should be throwing out those questions even though we've been pushing for you (yes, some will say 'deflection scumtell" but you don't seem to care about the other scumtells you throw out so why care about that one?).
Without doing a deep anal, your death will:
Help, though not completely, clear Alexhans
Finish off Archangel, who's only alive because of the big "I am scum" sign you two both hold.
Allow us to move on to Meth, Panda, and zeith
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I STILL haven't gotten an answer I'm satisfied with that explain why people think I'm scummy. I've brought up points, I've argued, I've scumhunted, I've even pushed people (Sadly, on Pandarsenic made himself scummier, and I don't think I've explained that one, I'll do it tomorrow)
Early game you kept disrupting early scumtelling instead of attacking fresh people.
You then tried to get the town to act mindlessly. The town should ALWAYS be questioning so the mafia can't use the mindlessless as a loophole.
You get hostile, bitter, angry, and insulting once pressure is put on you.
You skip over people's questions
You horribly skew people's arguments, thus misrepresenting them.
To those that see Alex as scummy but not you, defending alex without stating a reason links the two of you together (note: you didn't say ANYTHING about why you see him innocent until RIGHT NOW, 30 pages into the game. When I asked Alex the same thing he dodged my question then threw a quick snide comment about it later).
Which leads us to your next paragraph.
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Hey, you guys wanna know why I think Alexhans is town?
Yes
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It's simple, actually. It's also meta. When Alexhans pulls crazy stunts or schemes, he's pretty much always town. He correctly guesses as scum that pulling the stunts puts a TON of suspicion on himself. And would you look at that, he's gotten a ton of suspicion on himself! Holy shit, it's like we're psychic! No, wait, it's called deductive reasoning.
Alex poked about us living in a dream.
Part of my dream is you writing that FUCKING paragraph DAYS ago!
(another part is if you laid off the inane sarcasm. Please just, JUST STOP that, NOW!)
So it's meta that your basing it off of. Meta FEW OF US HAVE. Meta you never bothered to share until NOW. And you WONDER why we're confused over your defense of him?
Find, so there's WIFOM in it as well, but the whole #$)%# town is drunk off of it so why not another one.
In any sense, it FINALLY, FINALLY explains your link with Alex.
No, seriously.. you don't know what that last paragraph, said plainly (once I ignore the %)(#%$ sarcasm, which is getting hard at this point) does to me.
But let's move on.
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I want somebody to say, with a straight face and without lying, that thinking another player is town is scummy, because I'll tell you for a FACT, thinking another player is town is both common and a null tell. Well, until we start getting roleflips, but since we don't, nobody has that kind of knowledge.
It's also pretty ugly. Constantly screaming that someone is town helps the mafia who would want to leave the town with nothing but suspects. It also means that a mafia could use that to sow confusion like, say, making you HATE a person because they attack your buddy, or making the town drag you into the mud due to the buddying.
Then there's the fun "I swore he was town, but he turned out to be mafia" mess.
Oddball WIFOM: since Alex knows his meta game so well and knows that you know, what if Alex is playing you for a fool by acting loony just because he KNOWS you will defend him?
No, that's not serious, but it's one of the fun things that show up when analyzing things.
Oh, and I'll say this. Mafia HAVE been known to hang on to the most trusted townies. Note that "you're stuck on web, that's scummy" DID show up a few times.
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Now, if you think, say, that Alexhans is scummy, thinking I'm scum by relation is stupid, until the roleflip comes in. Yes, I've said it: Unless you can confirm the side of one player, you CANNOT get tells from other players based solely on their opinion of each other.
I wouldn't have minded THIS showing up as well MUCH MUCH earlier in the story. I also believe that Day 1 team finding is poor townie play. Note that, even when I felt you both are scum, I only hunted one of you at a time: you early on and Alex later on. When I REALLY pressed, I had one as scum and the other as either a town or a neutral. Still, it would've helped some of the others who are trying to create the entire scumteam.
Btw, reading player opinion isn't for scumtells, but for determinine motive, which I believe is more important than simple scumtells. Scumtells can net you the wrong person (like, say, someone who does crazy scummy looking things as town). Motive can find the truth behind the games.
It also helps with consistency and for explaining odd behavior. For example, you gave your opinion on Alex, along with WHY you hold that opinion. Because of it, it helps explain a lot of your behavior.
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I'm willing to risk that Alexhans is scum because, at the moment, I feel very confident he's town. If he roleflips scum and then the rest of you guys bandwagon on me, I will at least post my suspicion list and put as much pressure as possible onto anybody I think is scum. I'd probably do my damndest to argue that he tricked me, but I already know it would never work (This, btw, is the reason why I would NEVER do this if we were both scum. As soon as one of us dies, the other one is the next lynched, guaranteed.). My expectation is for him to flip town, however. In fact, in a best case scenario, he never flips until the game is over. I just don't want people I think are townies to be lynched. What, exactly, is wrong with that?Quote
Because you won't even question the idea.. you won't even hint and entertain the possibility, the mere THOUGHT that perhaps Alex is NOT town.
You're worried that Alex will flip scum and you'll die? Meh. That's a poor worry for a townie. You should be worried that Alex would flip scum and never die because then you'd lose the game.
I would feel a lot better if you at least let yourself CONSIDER that idea since, as you said, NO ONE KNOWS ANYONE'S ALIGNMENT BEFORE ROLEFLIP! Stop thinking in 100%s. Day 1 is a horrible time for 100%s.
Btw, a important point: when you are able to see your own meta to the point of explaining every detail, it proves that you know and are capable of controlling your meta.
For example, I may be known for WOTing when town and being less WOTy when scum. Well, once I KNOW that, I can simply WOT the next time I scum so everyone goes "Oh, he's town".
Meta breaks apart into pieces once the player is skilled enough to control it and knowledgeable enough to realize what they show. That's why discussing Meta turns you into WIFOM real fast.
I mean, if we all are to agree that "No scum is meant to play like that" then wouldn't it be smart and stylish for the scum to DO EXACTLY THAT then hide behind that sentence.
That's why you NEVER let yourself stop questioning. It leaves loopholes for the mafia to slip into, and poisoned wine for the town to drink.QuoteHell, I haven't really seen anything that convinces me Alexhans is scum either.
@Dakarian: You're timid and afriad of death. Damnit, if you think ToonyMan is town, you should be defending him from anything you think is wrong. Anything less is, well, scummy. As you said, only scum is afraid of what their image is or death.
If I'm town, then I don't KNOW toony's alignment. As such, I may be defending a scum or a town.
If I defend him and he's town, we're fine.
If I defend him, he's scum and dies, I'll die, but we killed a scum. I said this over and over: 1 scum for 1 town is worthwhile.
If I defend him, succeed in saving him, and he's scum.. we lose.
That last, is what I fear. Dying? Meh. I enjoy the fact that I have YET to ever be lynched in a game, even from back when I played these things live (even when I was scum, and yes, I won that one). It's neat, even when half the games have had me on the ropes. But I'm not stupid. I'll be lynched, I'll die, and chances are, it'll be as town. Nothing wrong with that.
But I've already lost.. many times. I've lost games to scum I swore was town. I lost games by derailing a push to kill a scum and, instead, ended up killing a town. I've defended people I swore was town and ended up as scum.
Dying. Meh. That'll be easy for me. Those that have played with me should know my meta. Alex betted with Toony over what you'll flip when you die. I made a bet with someone to kill me off and let themselves die if I turned town, and meant it. The mess I threw at Arc and Alex isn't BS. I HONESTLY believe that if you are in a bandwagon you can't get out of as town then accept your death and take a scum with you.
Perhaps I'll phrase it like you do: Not defending a person is trying to save your own skin? BULLSHIT moronic logic is bullshit and moronic.Quote from: CheeetarThe link between you two exists for one and ONLY one reason: YOU KEEP REINFORCING IT! I've tried hard.. HARD to think of you two seperately. I considered you town and Person scum. I thought of Person as neutral while you were scum. I had you as town and him as neutral at one point (when Archangel was in my sights)
Yet every time.. EVERY SINGLE TIME I even poke at one of you.. even the smallest poke, I get BOTH of you attacking me, insulting me, threatening me, accusing me.
You've admitted it, since the link exists only because we reinforce it, it can't exist because we're on the scum team :D
1. You really need to watch yourself. The mistakes aren't helping your defense. I said that, not Cheeetar.
2. You need to check who you are arguing with. I said it to explain why people keep linking you. I'm doing my best NOT to link you two. It was a message to you that meant "STOP BEING SHOCKED THAT PEOPLE LINK THE TWO OF YOU"
Btw, the "Both of you are scum" scenerio involves the both of you hiding behind your meta. Again, it's like me WOTing like crazy and screaming "I CAN'T be scum.. see? WOT WOTWOT!"
Consider it a compliment that I'm considering the idea that you two are so well controlled and crafty that you can analyze your game, find every pro-town/scum action, then play the part well while being scum. That's not bad mafia play. That's evil crafty mafia game with lots of tasty WIFOM for the town to drink.
It's also why using meta to save yourself doesn't work, at all! In fact, it makes it worse: it turns all of your past town tells into WIFOMs since it's now easy to see you in scum chat saying "I know how to act pro town. Watch me!"
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On a more serious note, well no shit Sherlock, what were you expecting, us to roll over and bow to your will? I think Alexhans is town, so I defend him. He thinks I'm town, he defends me. ANYTHING ELSE WOULD BE SCUMMY, PERIOD.
I expected the both of you to explain your reasonings CALMLY, answer questions FULLY, treat the town as something more than just sheep for the slaughter.
I expected you to push on either Alex for not hammering the person you believe is scum or to push Archangel so that you know, in your heart, that he is scum. I expect Alex to question him or hammer him, not just accept him as town just because he wrote a few more words.
For that matter, I expected Alex to be actually HUNTING scum based on how they post and what they do, and use that hammer to give us a free kill. Given that, if Alex is town, he's dead Night 1 since we can't protect Web and Alex, he'd use that hammer today. If he didn't want to use it on Arc, he would have a better reason than "oh, he's finally posted".
sidenote: if arc JUST wanted to use his hammer to pressure, not to kill, he should've said so. The town's been hanging on the idea of a nice hammer kill on a suspect, not using it as some kind of hyperbig FOS (like having 8 votes on you isn't enough?)
I expect my arguments to be countered based on what I'm actually arguing about. You have misrepresented me and others a few times now and used very awkward logic in other times (seriously, not defending someone that MAY be town = scummy self protectionism?!). The 'cheeetar' mistake is proving that you aren't being careful in your posts. That's not a scumtell in itself to me (to others it is though) but it heavily hurts your arguments and credibility.
So does the sarcasm and swearing.
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Whil I was typing this, I just realized something. Imagine, for a second, Alexhans is scum and I'm town. Would he not of, you know, acted on his bet with ToonyMan? Not only would it kill off a townie (At the town's request, no less), but it also would have made him seem less scummy and put a major egg on ToonyMan's face as well as half the rest of the town. This just makes me all the more certain of Alexhans not being scum. Of course, it could be, say, a ToonyMan Alexhans scumteam, but if that's the case, I precongratulate you two on managing to be hard to detect... but also really stupid.
YET ANOTHER paragraph I would've liked BACK WHEN I FIRST TALKED ABOUT IT!
It makes sense. Alex scum+ you town would mean Alex would've taken the bet and ruined Toony since Alex would KNOW you were town.
Which messes me up because I'm working on Alex scum/you neutral.
I'm going to need another post to write on. I need to reset my thinking a bit.
Fakeedit: Just saw the MASS of posts Alex wrote. I still don't like his tone so I'll need a second to think before dealing with him.
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 28, 2009, 09:46:47 am
Quote from: Alex
You dissapoint me, Josh. I pm-ed you for a reason. I don't know if you do this with every person you pm. When you pm-ed me in other games I didn't post it in the thread. You're trying to use it as further proof to push a fake case.
That was my first pm (as I dont really like the feature because it allows for game breaking strategies far to often) and it was meant for you. What odd satisfaction do you get by posting it here when I havent flipped? It's just a betrayal to good sportsmanship. Forgive me but, you suck man. Not only you're mislynching me but you mock me while you're at it.
I wasn't intending on showing everyone that I was definetly going to kill myself because now they'll think its a bluff and wont play until I do so.
Hmm...
You know Alex, when I play this game, I never take anything you say or do personally, despite how much you might think it does. I'm sorry if posting the PM seems like a lame move to you, but I only saw it as possible deceit, which you prepared for by wording it very well. I'm very sorry if my conduct seems unsportsman-like to you, but please understand my viewpoint, where doing everything possible to win trumps any obligation I have to an abstract idea. So what I'm saying is, it would be unsportsman-like of me to NOT do it.
Do you understand my side of things?
Post by: dakarian on September 28, 2009, 09:55:57 am
Alex, you keep screaming "you're wrong, you're wrong" but most of the time, you don't say WHY. It takes pushing after pushing after pushing to get you and Person to explain yourselves. Moaning over 'the failed town' DOES NOT HELP THE TOWN and neither does acting holy. You know you've been leaving scumtells so you should know the town and scum would jump on it to condemn you. Instead of dealing with it, we get "you're playing horribly you fool".
Thankfully, I don't need to use your egotistical mess. Person FINALLY saved you.
He actually EXPLAINED a few things, like why he keeps defending you, why it's bad to link the two of you together (you're making the mistake he did in misreading me. I DON"T like linking you two and I believe in treating you seperately. I'm NOT voting on you because of Person nor did I go after Person because of you) and, the biggest, a good reason why you could still be town while failing to honor that bet.
@Everyone
If Alexhans is scum and Person is town, Alex would've hammered Person. There was no reason for him NOT to do so since it would've messed up Toony. Even if it didn't CLEAR Alex, it would help him by disrupting the town.
Given that, it's crazy to think that Alex is scum without Person also being scum.
As such, either Alex is town or BOTH are scum. As such, if you believe they are both scum, hitting Person first is best, rather than hitting Alex.
Unvote
Although, Alex, once you stop the moaning and groaning and misreading of my text I'll be able to listen to you again. Better yet, how about just ignoring the whole mess and get back to nice tasty scumhunting.
As for Person.. meh, he's still neutral to me. If he's scum, we can lynch him Day 2. We don't need to hammer him to finish up The Bet after all. Meanwhile, he's gotten a large bit of his sarcasm and browbeating out of him and back into explanation posts.
Though he needs to stop the 'I can see it now" bit. It's old.
The rest of everything... oh blah now I have a good 10 or so pages to analyze? Oh well, carry on my wayward son.
Post by: dakarian on September 28, 2009, 10:03:49 am
You seemed to have missed a few of those questions Alex threw at you. Mind answering them? I'll rephrase
1)If Mr. Person flipped town, why would Panda, Dakarian, and Josh be scum? I hope you aren't just using "They went after Mr. Person" after all.
Do you think all lurkers would be town and thus should not be killed?
Do you feel that Dakarian is not genuinely scumhunting?
For that matter, why would Josh evoke his power if he was scum? Note that no one knew the power existed, nevermind that he had it, before he spoke up.
Please ignore Alex and Person for a moment and answer those questions.
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 28, 2009, 10:14:03 am
Quote from: Dakarion
If Alexhans is scum and Person is town, Alex would've hammered Person. There was no reason for him NOT to do so since it would've messed up Toony. Even if it didn't CLEAR Alex, it would help him by disrupting the town.
Given that, it's crazy to think that Alex is scum without Person also being scum.
As such, either Alex is town or BOTH are scum. As such, if you believe they are both scum, hitting Person first is best, rather than hitting Alex.
Can you explain this again for me Dak? My reasoning is that I'm not sure if Alex had that much foresight at the time, and might've viewed hammering MP to be inconsistent with his defense of him earlier.
Post by: dakarian on September 28, 2009, 10:15:08 am
Vote Archangel
I just did a run of the votes and the unofficial vote count would be
Mr.Person: Archangel, Boksi, Redwarrior0
Boksi: Mephansteras,
Archangel: Pandarsenic, webadict, Mr.Person, Dakarian
Redwarrior0: Zaithemaster
ToonyMan:
Alexhans: Diakron, Cheeetar, ToonyMan, chaoticjosh
brothernature: Alexhans
So Arc and Alex is tied.
Now, Mr. person, I'll ask you since arch is still on your Do Kill list, what are we still waiting for from Arch when it comes to being sure he's killable? I'm willing to wait, but I'll want a reason beyond "let him speak more". He needs a topic/question to discuss after all.
Post by: dakarian on September 28, 2009, 10:27:45 am
Quote from: DakarionIf Alexhans is scum and Person is town, Alex would've hammered Person. There was no reason for him NOT to do so since it would've messed up Toony. Even if it didn't CLEAR Alex, it would help him by disrupting the town.
Given that, it's crazy to think that Alex is scum without Person also being scum.
As such, either Alex is town or BOTH are scum. As such, if you believe they are both scum, hitting Person first is best, rather than hitting Alex.
Can you explain this again for me Dak? My reasoning is that I'm not sure if Alex had that much foresight at the time, and might've viewed hammering MP to be inconsistent with his defense of him earlier.
The argument that Alex is scum relies on him being skillful enough to understand his own meta. Thus we can't take him for being unskilled.
It also relies on the idea that Alex is willing to do scumtells and use his meta+hammer as coverfire.
Now if Alex is scum then he KNOWS Person is town (assuming he is) and KNOWS toony is town (I agree with Person.. it would be the gamble of the century to stage THAT if Toony/Alex were scum).
The bet was "If Person flips town then Toony is guilty". Toony pulled back and it almost ruined him so he pushed forward.
Now if Alex hammered Person, he would've gotten a townie kill. He would've also removed some of the suspicion on him since it proved he was right and Person was innocent. He could blame killing a townie on "Leaving a bet is scummy, and toony's pull back showed he wasn't ready. He expected me to get squemish but I delivered and proved I was right and toony was wrong."
Alex would gain cred while Toony would lose his at worst. At best, we'd turn on toony and leave Alex alone.
He'd have a ton to gain for flinging the hammer. Not flinging it would mean ditching the bet and nearly getting himself killed..for what?
Can it still be an EPIC RUSE? Perhaps, but we'll need to see more of him to keep that from turning into pure WIFOM mayham. We can't complete the story in Day 1, only set the pieces. It is, however, a crazy idea compared to say both being scum or ALL of them being town.
Thus why I can't see Arch scum/Person town anymore.
Post by: Leafsnail on September 28, 2009, 10:49:06 am
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MOD: You can analyze the quick chats and this chat. With that, you can tell whether that chat was meant for this game or another. If it's for this game and Diakron posted what was meant for mafia quick chat, I believe we'll need to look into whether the talk in BM3 is a violation AND I question whether it has ruined this game.Sorry, I'm not entirely sure what you mean, I haven't been following BM3. Thanks for the unofficial votecount though, there were some serious WoTs to dig through in the last page.
If it was meant for another game, then we can just let it be and put it to the side.
Deadline in about 28 hours.
And, by the way, there are 4 mafia members. I didn't make it clear enough in the OP, sorry.
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 28, 2009, 11:22:41 am
Quote from: DakarionIf Alexhans is scum and Person is town, Alex would've hammered Person. There was no reason for him NOT to do so since it would've messed up Toony. Even if it didn't CLEAR Alex, it would help him by disrupting the town.
Given that, it's crazy to think that Alex is scum without Person also being scum.
As such, either Alex is town or BOTH are scum. As such, if you believe they are both scum, hitting Person first is best, rather than hitting Alex.
Can you explain this again for me Dak? My reasoning is that I'm not sure if Alex had that much foresight at the time, and might've viewed hammering MP to be inconsistent with his defense of him earlier.
The argument that Alex is scum relies on him being skillful enough to understand his own meta. Thus we can't take him for being unskilled.
It also relies on the idea that Alex is willing to do scumtells and use his meta+hammer as coverfire.
Now if Alex is scum then he KNOWS Person is town (assuming he is) and KNOWS toony is town (I agree with Person.. it would be the gamble of the century to stage THAT if Toony/Alex were scum).
The bet was "If Person flips town then Toony is guilty". Toony pulled back and it almost ruined him so he pushed forward.
Now if Alex hammered Person, he would've gotten a townie kill. He would've also removed some of the suspicion on him since it proved he was right and Person was innocent. He could blame killing a townie on "Leaving a bet is scummy, and toony's pull back showed he wasn't ready. He expected me to get squemish but I delivered and proved I was right and toony was wrong."
Alex would gain cred while Toony would lose his at worst. At best, we'd turn on toony and leave Alex alone.
He'd have a ton to gain for flinging the hammer. Not flinging it would mean ditching the bet and nearly getting himself killed..for what?
Can it still be an EPIC RUSE? Perhaps, but we'll need to see more of him to keep that from turning into pure WIFOM mayham. We can't complete the story in Day 1, only set the pieces. It is, however, a crazy idea compared to say both being scum or ALL of them being town.
Thus why I can't see Arch scum/Person town anymore.
I see, I suppose that does make sense.
I took alittle time to step back and reread some more, and I have to say, as much as I don't like Alex's attitude, and alot of his reasoning that goes along the lines of "Oh, well, I meant something else!", I may have been jumpy and it might be advantageous to not rush here, and he does sound sincere.
Unvote
I'd like to hear what ToonyMan has to say about all this.
Post by: Mephansteras on September 28, 2009, 12:19:27 pm
Anyway, now that I've had a chance to look through things.
1) I think Alexhans and Mr.Person are town. There are a lot of insults going around, but they've made good points and it just doesn't seem likely that they're both scum working together. And, as has been pointed out a lot, it makes no sense for Alex to be scum and not Mr.Person.
2) There are a lot of accusations that Pandarsenic is active lurking. This rings false to me, since he has been putting up some decent analysis. I haven't agreed with most of it, but that doesn't mean he isn't scum hunting. He just hasn't been throwing up the walls of text that other people have been. To be honest, if it wasn't webadict doing most of the accusing I'd probably think it was a scum attack. As it is...I don't know. He could be honestly trying to help or he could be scum trying to put in the barest amount of work to seem town without really scum hunting.
3) Have all of you completely forgotten about brothernature??? Seriously, in all the lists of "who's scum" he seems to have conveniently fallen off the list. Boksi, I see, is still on it for lurking, but why not brothernature? He's been even more silent and unhelpful then anyone else. Alex still has his vote on him, it seems, but even he hasn't exactly mentioned him very often.
4) RedWarrior0, you're still jumping on bandwagons and using everyone else's arguments. It strikes me as scummy.
5) Archangel started off lurking as always, but has really started to do more. Could still be scum, but at least he's putting in an effort to play the game.
Otherwise, we've got lots of arguments and lots of insults flying around. I think we have a town-fight going on here and I don't that's helping us at all.
So...here is my thought. I think we've got an experienced mafia player running a bunch of quiet/new players and stirring up a whole bunch of controversy that's nicely hiding the rest of the scum. If they can get Alex to hammer a townie and then the rest of us to quick-lynch another townie, then they've started to make up for Josh's power giving us a confirmed townie. My guess is Dakarion is the ring-leader, since he's been pushing for a hammer of Mr.Person. ToonyMan is another option, since he could easily use his craziness to stir stuff up and keep people's attention on him and whomever he is attacking. Not sure if that kind of gambit is his style, though.
For now, I'm going to unvote and vote brothernature. I don't like how he has been lurking so much and I really don't like that he seems to have been pretty much forgotten.
Webadict, could you please give us an analysis of what you think? You're our confirmed townie but everything you've said so far keeps being buried in the WoTs that Alex and Dakarian have been throwing up. I gather that you think Alex and Mr.Person are town, and that Archangel is scum. Do you still think he's scum? What about the rest of the lurkers?
Post by: Mr.Person on September 28, 2009, 12:41:01 pm
Yes, I want to hear Brothernature, Boski, Pandarsenic, and ideally more from Meph. You guys have been quiet, very very quiet.
@Dakarian:
1. About the mistake in that post, I made it at 3 in the morning, so yeah.
2. Eh, I use a lot of sarcasm and shit all the time. It's reeeeeeal helpful. Personally, I don't have a problem with it, but since you do, and it would make an otherwise clear post quite confusing, I'll try and stop.
3. This only just struck me, but I haven't explained why I think Alexhans is town to me mostly because nobody's asked. No, that's not an acceptable excuse. Hell, I bet you somebody DID ask and I just missed it.
@Meph: WoT's are good things, don't complain :D
@Everybody: I'm thinking we might need a day extension. Stop groaning, I'm serious. We're going to have a day and a half to cram in pretty much an entire day's worth of content. All the tunnel vision has robbed us of information on over half the town.
Post by: dakarian on September 28, 2009, 12:47:03 pm
3) Have all of you completely forgotten about brothernature???*blush* yes, yes we have.
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So...here is my thought. I think we've got an experienced mafia player running a bunch of quiet/new players and stirring up a whole bunch of controversy that's nicely hiding the rest of the scum. If they can get Alex to hammer a townie and then the rest of us to quick-lynch another townie, then they've started to make up for Josh's power giving us a confirmed townie. My guess is Dakarion is the ring-leader, since he's been pushing for a hammer of Mr.Person. ToonyMan is another option, since he could easily use his craziness to stir stuff up and keep people's attention on him and whomever he is attacking. Not sure if that kind of gambit is his style, though.
I stopped the hammer push on Person a good while ago actually. I was pushing Alex till Person showed how messy the Alexscum/Persontown is and I can't bring myself to do an alexscum/personscum when Person is still neutral.
Do note, though, that the final pieces that removed the reasons to attack them only JUST showed up. We had to slog through and post up those 12 pages of insults and WOTs just to get to this position. I'm actually looking forward to work now just so I can keep away from the comp long enough to think :P.
I'm not convinced about Archangel though, but about now we need to refresh why we think who is what. As such, I'll need to go through those archives again. For now, my vote on Arch is more to keep Alex off of majority than anything else.
As for me being the ringleader.. understandable. If any of my argument is flawed or misleading, I'll gladly answer them.
[/quote]
Lastly, I'd like to add with the Call to Web: Along with the lurkers, how about an anal on Panda, Meth and Cheetar? It'll be good to get an idea on how those three look or if we need to apply more pressure there too.
Post by: dakarian on September 28, 2009, 01:05:35 pm
@Dakarian:
1. About the mistake in that post, I made it at 3 in the morning, so yeah.Quote
Just making sure you keep it in mind. I nearly got lynched in a game due to a small slip up that got blown up.Quote2. Eh, I use a lot of sarcasm and shit all the time. It's reeeeeeal helpful. Personally, I don't have a problem with it, but since you do, and it would make an otherwise clear post quite confusing, I'll try and stop.
It just depends on who you are using it to. 'Sarcasm and shit' is to insight emotion and recklessness in the target. It's great in attacks when you want to shake someone up. It's ugly when you are trying to get your real point across to others (i.e. when defending or when trying to gather up the townies).
Just know what tools you are using and why you are using it. Look at your 3 paragraphs to me and compare them to the WOT Alex posted after.
Bah, note the 3 paragraphs compared to the other 30 pages! As I said, this would be a MUCH MUCH different game if those 3 paragraphs showed up earlier.Quote3. This only just struck me, but I haven't explained why I think Alexhans is town to me mostly because nobody's asked. No, that's not an acceptable excuse. Hell, I bet you somebody DID ask and I just missed it.
It was the basis behind the scumlink accusation. Alex refers to the meta but didn't explain it more. You didn't explain it at all. Thus the town got stuck with a nice information vacuum.
To be truth, I think it started with your "Follow Alex. Why are you questioning him" post. A request to NOT question and follow blindly. At least if you show red to a bull you get a CHANCE he didn't see you. :PQuote
@Everybody: I'm thinking we might need a day extension. Stop groaning, I'm serious. We're going to have a day and a half to cram in pretty much an entire day's worth of content. All the tunnel vision has robbed us of information on over half the town.
It may not be wasted. Nice thing about a bandwagon is that, if you can break it, you get to see a batch of people who don't think they are being noticed. Sort of like yelling at a person for an hour, then suddenly turning around and going "HA!" at the person sneaking up behind you.
@everyone
So, after we recover a bit, I say we all pull back, reset ourselves, slog through the OMGPAIN of a day we have and go hunting. Clean out your suspicions list for the moment, and go take in a few people's posts during this day. You may find a new way of looking at people.
Then we come back here ,with new info and new reasons to go kill kill stabby stabby on someone.
And yes, I'll accept a day extension. We in bay12 really do try to rush things too fast.
Post by: dakarian on September 28, 2009, 01:06:44 pm
Most of that was to Person. The most important piece though I'll rewrite:
@everyone
So, after we recover a bit, I say we all pull back, reset ourselves, slog through the OMGPAIN of a day we have and go hunting. Clean out your suspicions list for the moment, and go take in a few people's posts during this day. You may find a new way of looking at people.
Then we come back here ,with new info and new reasons to go kill kill stabby stabby on someone.
And yes, I'll accept a day extension. We in bay12 really do try to rush things too fast.
Post by: Leafsnail on September 28, 2009, 01:14:21 pm
Post by: dakarian on September 28, 2009, 01:21:56 pm
Please, sir, I want some more.
;D
Post by: Leafsnail on September 28, 2009, 01:23:57 pm
Post by: Zai on September 28, 2009, 01:28:27 pm
...My God. I've worked an hour on this monster and I'm still only on the 3rd page (2nd full page of playing at 50 or so posts per page). I think I'll be requesting a day extension, too. o,0
Post by: Mr.Person on September 28, 2009, 01:35:50 pm
I give ya 8 days and you want more? I suppose I could do a 24 hour day extension if it's agreed upon.
Why are you complaining, you have the easy job.
This is the day that never eeends!
It just goes on and on my frieeend!
They started playing, not knowing what it was!
And now they keep on playing just because
This is the day that never eeends!
About the "trying to make the town go mindlessly with Alexhans" thing, yes, I'll admit that was a bad idea at the time. I just wanted to see what Alexhans was up to. I think the proper way to word it would of been more like "Well, I want to see what Alexhans is up to. What's the worst it could be?" instead it came out more like "Just follow Alexhans, what's the worst it can be?". I'm very aware of what the difference is.
Somebody asked a million WoT's ago what was keeping me from day killing Archangel. My answer is, I want to hear something from Archangel first. I think Archangel is scum due to past lurking, bandwagoning without reasoning, and lack of scumhunting in current posts, mostly the bandwagoning. However, it's possible that Archangel is just an unhelpful townie. So now, I want to hear who Archangel thinks is scum and why. Archangel, I just want you to know, you're very pusausive for some reason, keep talking. Seriously, I was almost tempted to unvote you just from what you've said earlier. Alexhans unvoted you because he's after lurkers not lurking, I'm after you now because I hold bandwagoning as the scummiest thing possible. In addition to who you think is scum, I should also ask, who do you think should be day killed instead of you? Who do you think is town? (Remember to answer Why)
@Everyone: What do you think of Alexhan's "lynch all lurkers" policy? Me, I usually find that scum don't lurk lurk, they active lurk. However, since he seems to just be putting pressure on them until they talk, I can't argue with what Alexhans is doing now. Additionally, if I find nobody scummy in the active players, I'll go along with a lurker lynch.
Post by: Leafsnail on September 28, 2009, 01:38:28 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on September 28, 2009, 01:39:16 pm
Well, Meph, we've kinda been giving you a free pass too, but oh well, you're here now.
Yes, I want to hear Brothernature, Boski, Pandarsenic, and ideally more from Meph. You guys have been quiet, very very quiet.
@Dakarian:
1. About the mistake in that post, I made it at 3 in the morning, so yeah.
2. Eh, I use a lot of sarcasm and shit all the time. It's reeeeeeal helpful. Personally, I don't have a problem with it, but since you do, and it would make an otherwise clear post quite confusing, I'll try and stop.
3. This only just struck me, but I haven't explained why I think Alexhans is town to me mostly because nobody's asked. No, that's not an acceptable excuse. Hell, I bet you somebody DID ask and I just missed it.
@Meph: WoT's are good things, don't complain :D
@Everybody: I'm thinking we might need a day extension. Stop groaning, I'm serious. We're going to have a day and a half to cram in pretty much an entire day's worth of content. All the tunnel vision has robbed us of information on over half the town.
Yeah, I really wish I'd had more time to go over this game this weekend. It would have made all the discussion more digestible. And while I like Walls of Text in general when you get too many of them at once it starts to get unwieldy from an analysis standpoint.
I'm going to try to spend some time going over a few people's general actions. I want to see if my theory holds up to scrutiny. I'll start with Dakarian, since he's said a lot and muddied up the waters a good bit. I'll have to pay attention to the last few pages a bit more, since he says he stopped pushing for the hammer on Mr.Person recently.
While I'm here, does anyone have any questions for me?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 28, 2009, 02:03:15 pm
Unvote. Vote Mr.Person.
Post by: Zai on September 28, 2009, 04:32:00 pm
Anyways. I've got the summary of a few pages done. Here:
First full page: Dakarian and Pandar both play up Alexhans's suspicion of Web. Cheeetar says he'd protect Pandar with the JanetFourEyes role. Alex says it's suspicious for other people to not give their extra role info out, but withholds his. M.P says he has a feeling Web is getting bussed but says that that's ridiculous, and that Alex is going after him for no reason, but joins the bandwagon anyway because he wants to see what Web says.
Second full page: Dakarian joins the fight, going after Alex, saying he became panicky as soon as Web voted him. Dakarian also says he'll share his role if Alex shares his first. Alex refuses, pretty much saying that everything Dakarian said was wrong. M.P jumps in with the "Just go along with Alex; what's the worst that could happen?" bit. Alex then proceeds to hammer Web, who turns up as townie ArchCherub. Alex says that's what you get for being scummy. M.P is rather nonchalant about this. Alex confirms that he's Alex-chan. He wanted to use his power early so it wouldn't be suspicious in LYLO; says he was afraid the wagon on Web would go down so he made a rushed decision. Alex says he's sorry to the dead Web and that his role wasn't very useful anyway. M.P tries to get Pandar to talk about this by voting for him; says he thinks Alex is town. Diakron roleclaims as LeafSlug and shares his 2nd known role; asks Alex why he hammered Web and who he would want as scumbuddies. TM votes Alex for killing Web before he could speak and FoS's M.P for siding with Alex. Boksi does the same as TM. M.P says he was trying to get Alex night-killed. Diakron says he's not sure whether or not to
Third full page (FINALLY!): M.P changes his story to random voting should be frowned on, as we want opinions for discussion, but says it might give more info, so random voting isn't really a bad thing. Josh roleclaims Cobrarsenic, claiming to have broken the game and to be able to revive Web, giving us a confirmed townie. Cheeetar jumps on immediately. Alex asks if he checked it with the mod. Josh responds yes, and that there is no confusion over it; neither he nor Web will be dead. Dakarian wants validation that that's how his role works from whoever has Cobrarsenic as their known role. Alexhans joins immediately. Meph says he also wants validation, and that he's keeping his vote on Boksi until then. Alex says he's had a frenzy month, and that's why he looks anxious. M.P joins Josh's plan and requests the day be shortened. Dakarian votes M.P for being over eager to "push this gamble." Alex also doesn't like the idea of a day shortening, because some people still hadn't posted content. M.P says there's no point, as we know what's gonna happen if Josh is lying or not, and is suspicious of Dakarian. Meph thinks Josh might have a role bad for lynching. Dakarian says again that validation would be good. Josh says M.P may be trying to flip suspicion from M.P back to Dakarian. TM votes josh. M.P says we can just see what'll happen instead of running in circles over 'what if's. Meph asks what the harm in waiting for confirmation is. He's suspicious of M.P for not wanting to keep people talking. Says Josh will lie and manipulate everyone to win. Josh notes M.P's unnecessary hostility. M.P says that there couldn't possibly be a role that would make Josh win Day 1. Meph says that Alex and brothernature still haven't shared known roles, and wants to hear from BN. Alex says he already shared his role and that Meph needs to pay more attention. He's curious about the bookadict role and says he'll "check it later." Meph apologizes for missing that. BN shows up, saying that his internet was down, but confirms Josh's role. "Knowing that Josh is telling the truth," Meph votes Josh. Dakarian also votes Josh, and says that we can make good use of the day to debate more, and that he's hoping to do "that scan he so needs to do". Diakron votes Josh, asking if he can just bandwagon on it (jokingly, I'm pretty sure), and saying that he's for scumhunting but is "lacking in this department". Meph says Alex and Josh are acting pretty town. He FoSs M.p for being not sure that he "has our best interest at heart." He FoSs BN and Boksi for lurking. M.P asks what Meph means by "doesn't have the best interests of the town at heart" (which, by the way, is not what Meph said; Meph said our interest). Dakarian says M.P has been making scumhunting different, and points out his inconsistency over the random voting subject. I (Zai) ask why M.P is so sure that Alex is town, and FoS M.P. I ask a question about if Drakonian and Dracron are automatically on the same side. I decide that more attention needs to be paid to lurkers, so I vote boksi instead of needlessly adding another vote on Josh. Meph aks M.P when he's going to start hunting scum instead of blocking everyone else's attempts at doing so. M.P says he thinks Alex is town, but isn't sure, and that it's best if Alex uses his power, even if he's scum, before we get to LYLO. He claims I was rolefishing. I respond that I clearly wasn't asking what his role was, I had just been asking about roles, whether or not he has them. Dakarian addresses M.P's comments about random voting, and then says that M.P is question dodging, which is VERY scummy. M.P says that he has no comment, as Dakarian is really attacking him for giving his opinion. Dakarian says that M.P is defending the accused whenever someone calls them out on bad statement. He says M.P is trying VERY HARD to confuse, harass, and control the town, and says that M.P is scum, and that when the day resets, he will be lynched. BN pops in and suggest Alex hammer-kill M.P when the day resets. Dakarian suggests that Alex should wait until the town gives input to hammer M.P. M.P says trying to control the town is a valid strategy if he's right. he says Dakarian has strawman arguments and says again that he wants Alex nightkilled, to skip over all the WIFOM surrounding him. Diakron pops in and says that he's going to vote M.P on the second Day 1 (Day 1.5, if you please). M.P says he's not allowed to bandwagon like that and demands reasons from Diakron. Diakron says that M.P has just given another attempt to derail with an implied threat. Dakarian requests people to look over the situation and to point out anything out of place. Diakron says he "forgot" to answer M.P. He says that his reason is that M.P is protecting Alex, and is acting like Alex has got his back. M.P FoSs Diakron for attempting to derail so he wouldn't have to answer, and then says in a "FAKEDIT" that Diakron's reason is terrible. Diakron then says that he's too tired and will answer M.P when he gets up.
...I think I might be noting too much. It's taking longer than I thought. Like...an hour a page. I don't have that much time; not today at least.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 28, 2009, 04:41:20 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 28, 2009, 04:44:28 pm
Toony, I hope you know what you're doing.
Signing off for class now.
Fake-edit: Zai, don't forget where everyone claims I was activelurking when I haven't been.
Post by: Mephansteras on September 28, 2009, 04:49:51 pm
Post by: Boksi on September 28, 2009, 04:50:18 pm
Anyway, I might have more things to say more when something concrete has happened. As in actual events, like webadict getting hammered. I still suspect Person enough to maintain my vote on him, mostly because his flip will really influence my reasoning.
So, status quo for me.
FAKE-EDIT: OH GOD ZAI, PARAGRAPHS, PARAGRAPHS. I CAN BARELY READ THAT!
Post by: Zai on September 28, 2009, 04:56:07 pm
FAKE-EDIT: OH GOD ZAI, PARAGRAPHS, PARAGRAPHS. I CAN BARELY READ THAT!
Yeah...I know. They weren't originally supposed to be that long, so I was going to just have each page lumped together. And then they got that long. And I just left 'em like that. I'll try to organize them more.
Post by: Mr.Person on September 28, 2009, 05:06:08 pm
Eh, I've been trying to think of something to say for a while now but I realized I don't have anything worthwhile to say. I'll be trying to follow these massive WOTs, and while it is doable with my degree of reading comprehension I really want to say that I don't find WOTs to be such a good thing. Especially when WOTs start quoting WOTs in their entireties.
Anyway, I might have more things to say more when something concrete has happened. As in actual events, like webadict getting hammered. I still suspect Person enough to maintain my vote on him, mostly because his flip will really influence my reasoning.
So, status quo for me.
FAKE-EDIT: OH GOD ZAI, PARAGRAPHS, PARAGRAPHS. I CAN BARELY READ THAT!
Why do you find WoT's to be bad? If you don't like reading and trying to deduce sides based on what you've read, mafia might not be the game for you, no offense meant or anything.
WoT's are literal mountains of info. I salute everybody who's posted a WoT so far.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 28, 2009, 05:28:16 pm
Why hello Cheeetar. ;DI honestly can't remember at the moment, and I don't have much time free, but I should be able to answer those questions in about 5 or 6 hours.
You seemed to have missed a few of those questions Alex threw at you. Mind answering them? I'll rephrase
1)If Mr. Person flipped town, why would Panda, Dakarian, and Josh be scum? I hope you aren't just using "They went after Mr. Person" after all.
Do you think all lurkers would be town and thus should not be killed?
Do you feel that Dakarian is not genuinely scumhunting?
For that matter, why would Josh evoke his power if he was scum? Note that no one knew the power existed, nevermind that he had it, before he spoke up.
Please ignore Alex and Person for a moment and answer those questions.
Post by: Mephansteras on September 28, 2009, 06:38:47 pm
Day 1.0
Alexhans: Boksi, webadict, chaoticjosh
Archangel: Dakarian, unvote
Boksi: Alexhans
brothernature: webadict
chaoticjosh: Cheeetar, unvote, chaoticjosh
Cheeetar: Pandarsenic, chaoticjosh
dakarian: Archangel, webadict, Alexhans, Mr.Person, chaoticjosh
Diakron: chaoticjosh
RedWarrior0: chaoticjosh
Mephansteras: Boksi, chaoticjosh
Mr.Person: Alexhans, webadict, Pandarsenic, unvote, Pandarsenic, chaoticjosh
Pandarsenic: chaoticjosh
ToonyMan: brothernature, Alexhans, chaoticjosh
webadict: Alexhans
Zaithemaster: dakarian, Boksi
Note: An 'unvote' means that the person had a gap in between voting for one person, unvoting, and then revoting. Te only exception to that is Mr.Person who decided to vote Panda, then later unvote him and revote him immediately.
Not much to go on here, of course. Most of it revolved around Alex's hammer of webadict and then shifted to Josh's power.
Most interesting things:
-dakarian bounced his vote around a lot. I think he's continued to do this, but I'll find out when I do Day 1, Take 2
-Only 4 people had voted for webadict before he got hammered. brothernature, dakarian, Alex, and Mr.Person. dakarian unvoted before the actual hammer. While I suppose it's possible that our scum team is those four (and playing a giant in-fight to distract us all), I find that rather unlikely. Probably just a coincidence, but there it is.
-Zaithemaster never voted for chaoticjosh. Rather, he chose to vote for Boksi instead. (This was after Josh's plan was set out and his power confirmed) Any particular reason for this, Zai?
Ok, like I said, not much to go on there. But it's useful to have and may help us more later on.
As soon as I get a chance, I'll do Day 1 Take 2
Post by: webadict on September 28, 2009, 06:54:22 pm
Pandarsenic is scum.
Mephansteras is likely scum.
Cheeetar is probably scum.
dakarian is likely town.
Mr.Person is likely town.
Alexhans is likely town.
Zaithemaster is town.
webadict is the towniest.
ToonyMan is... probably town.
chaoticjosh is meh.
Diakron is meh.
RedWarrior0 is lurking.
Archangel is lurking.
Boksi is lurking.
brothernature is lurking.
Other than that... I dunno. I would enjoy Archangel being dead. Because he needs to be more active.
Oh, and Day Extension.
With a list of lurkers that big... it's just stupid.
Post by: Mephansteras on September 28, 2009, 07:02:21 pm
Post by: Zai on September 28, 2009, 07:07:21 pm
-Zaithemaster never voted for chaoticjosh. Rather, he chose to vote for Boksi instead. (This was after Josh's plan was set out and his power confirmed) Any particular reason for this, Zai?
Yes. Quite simple, really, and I do believe I said this at that time: my vote was not necessary at that point; voting for Josh would merely have been for show.
And I've been feeling quite exhausted again since I posted that summary of the first few pages, so don't expect much more from me tonight. I believe I may have mono, and will actually be going to the doctor tomorrow.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 28, 2009, 07:07:53 pm
Holy crap.
Pandarsenic is town.
...
Mr.Person is probably scum.
...
Fixed.
Day extension plx.
Question: If I post my Role PM so I get modkilled once they have a majority on me so they don't waste their lynch on a townie, what will happen?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 28, 2009, 07:09:07 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on September 28, 2009, 07:10:47 pm
I believe I may have mono, and will actually be going to the doctor tomorrow.
Ugg. Good luck, Zai, and I hope you feel better tomorrow!
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 28, 2009, 07:17:20 pm
Banned from future games? A warning?
Yeaaaaaaah. That's what I'm thinking, because otherwise it would be easy for the scum to never get a night. :I
Post by: webadict on September 28, 2009, 07:27:12 pm
Hahaha.Banned from future games? A warning?
Yeaaaaaaah. That's what I'm thinking, because otherwise it would be easy for the scum to never get a night. :I
Could you actually take the time to explain some of that to us, web?Or you could take my word for it. MY WORD IS LAW!
Post by: Mephansteras on September 28, 2009, 07:32:24 pm
Hahaha.Banned from future games? A warning?
Yeaaaaaaah. That's what I'm thinking, because otherwise it would be easy for the scum to never get a night. :ICould you actually take the time to explain some of that to us, web?Or you could take my word for it. MY WORD IS LAW!
Well, no one seems to be taking your word for it so far. You've done a few posts like this so far and they just keep being lost in the flood. Maybe if you explained why you think people are scum or town we could actually get people to listen to you.
Do you really want me to shift my vote over to Pandarsenic just because you told me to? I can, but that would really just be bandwagoning. I'm still ambivalent about Panda, and I don't see why you're so sure about him.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 28, 2009, 07:33:09 pm
Explain or I'm just going to ignore you. We wouldn't take this from other people; I want your reasons if you want my vote.
Post by: Mr.Person on September 28, 2009, 08:05:54 pm
Web, confirmed townies can make mistakes (i.e. my alignment)
Explain or I'm just going to ignore you. We wouldn't take this from other people; I want your reasons if you want my vote.
Are you going to ignore him just because he thinks you're scum?
Webadict, post some reasoning, quit being the confirmed unhelpful townie, be a confirmed helpful townie.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 28, 2009, 09:05:32 pm
Web, confirmed townies can make mistakes (i.e. my alignment)
Explain or I'm just going to ignore you. We wouldn't take this from other people; I want your reasons if you want my vote.
Are you going to ignore him just because he thinks you're scum?
Webadict, post some reasoning, quit being the confirmed unhelpful townie, be a confirmed helpful townie.
lrn2read.
I'm demanding what you are from him.
Post by: webadict on September 28, 2009, 11:49:13 pm
Post by: dakarian on September 29, 2009, 01:00:45 am
Now, @ web you said:
Pandarsenic is scum.
Mephansteras is likely scum.
Cheeetar is probably scum.
Those are the three sideliners: not inactive, but haven't been in spot light all that much. I currently am using Alex's questions to pressure Cheeetar (I so dislike a question dodge) so I'm waiting on that. As for the other two, anyone got some info on those two so far or do we need to pepper them more?
As for Zaith... why is Zaith town? He's neutral to me.
As for Arch, I still need to get a more recent look at him.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 29, 2009, 01:17:27 am
Why hello Cheeetar. ;D
You seemed to have missed a few of those questions Alex threw at you. Mind answering them? I'll rephrase
1)If Mr. Person flipped town, why would Panda, Dakarian, and Josh be scum? I hope you aren't just using "They went after Mr. Person" after all.
Do you think all lurkers would be town and thus should not be killed?
Do you feel that Dakarian is not genuinely scumhunting?
For that matter, why would Josh evoke his power if he was scum? Note that no one knew the power existed, nevermind that he had it, before he spoke up.
Please ignore Alex and Person for a moment and answer those questions.
1. I'm pretty sure Mr. Person is scum, and I don't know what to assume if he isn't. I threw that answer together in a few minutes by looking at who was saying he was scum. It was a bad answer.
If Mr. Person was revealed town when lynched, I would go for Dakarian as scum, because he was the one who insisted majorly that Mr. Person was scum and should be hammered by Alexhans, and (I think?) supported a Mr. Person / Alexhans scum team (I also did that, but I know I'm town). As for other scum team members, I don't know at the moment.
2. I don't think lurking proves being either town or scum. As such, it's good to pressure lurkers to vote, but it's not good to lynch lurkers without them defending themselves. Give them a fair deal of warning, maybe PM them or something.
3. I believe Dakarian is genuinely (sp?) scum hunting, or atleast putting on a very good act of scumhunting.
4. The answer I gave was bad, and I didn't even consider that Josh had made Web a confirmed townie.
Unvote. Vote Mr. Person.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 29, 2009, 01:57:40 am
Oh, right. I wanted Mr.Person dead. Still do.
Post by: dakarian on September 29, 2009, 02:00:23 am
You said that I would be scum if Person flipped town eh, even though you're pushing for a Person death as well?
Wait.. more so.. I've STOPPED going after Person a good while ago. My vote is on Arch now and I'm turning to others. Person is neutral to me and was so when you first posted that "Dak would be scum" (note, I was after Alex). Meanwhile, you are STILL after Person.
Yet you would go for Dakarian as scum for getting Person killed.
Using my own lurker policy is a nice touch as well. So is the backtracking of your comments.
I won't let you backtrack though. When Alex asked you gave those three people and JUST those three. WHY? Even if you feel it was bad now, you had a reason then. WHY?
Especially josh. If you forgot about Josh reviving Web then you had something else in mind when you thought of josh. What was on your mind then? I don't care if it was 'bad'. I want to hear it anyway.
Post by: dakarian on September 29, 2009, 02:03:50 am
What about why I'm on your list? :<
Oh, right. I wanted Mr.Person dead. Still do.
*swat* didn't ask you.
kidding, but to be serious, that doesn't work. If "vote for Mr Person = bad" then where's Toony? He was on Person's case hard. Why isn't he on the list? Where's Daikron?
We three were singled out, and it wasn't just because of Person since others got away free. I want to know what was on his mind THEN, right at the moment he made that post.
Post by: webadict on September 29, 2009, 02:05:02 am
However, I was dead, and therefore Cheeetar has no reason, since he was paying attention enough to somehow figure that Mr.Person was scum when I had not. Huh? Funny Cheeetar!
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 29, 2009, 05:37:41 am
Post by: Archangel on September 29, 2009, 05:54:53 am
MOD: Are we allowed a Bah! post? I'm going to PM you some stuff to use in your flavour if I am involved, and a bah in case I can't post it myself.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 29, 2009, 06:02:51 am
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 29, 2009, 06:45:40 am
Quote from: Me
QuoteOn a more serious note, well no shit Sherlock, what were you expecting, us to roll over and bow to your will? I think Alexhans is town, so I defend him. He thinks I'm town, he defends me. ANYTHING ELSE WOULD BE SCUMMY, PERIOD.
Whil I was typing this, I just realized something. Imagine, for a second, Alexhans is scum and I'm town. Would he not of, you know, acted on his bet with ToonyMan? Not only would it kill off a townie (At the town's request, no less), but it also would have made him seem less scummy and put a major egg on ToonyMan's face as well as half the rest of the town. This just makes me all the more certain of Alexhans not being scum. Of course, it could be, say, a ToonyMan Alexhans scumteam, but if that's the case, I precongratulate you two on managing to be hard to detect... but also really stupid.
In the first two sentences, you say that if you think someone's town, you should defend him, period. If I may ask a question, should you still do this if you don't have solid evidence? Should you do this if you have to resort to broken/half-assed arguments? Should you do this even if it means potentially poisoning the town's momentum?
@Arch:
I'd like to point out that, because of my double vote, it is a three way tie. I actually don't care what happens to me, and for the last two days expected to discover that I had died. I would do some more analysis, but the people I want to do have made TOO. FUCKING. MANY. POSTS!, so I'm not going to. I suspect that part of the reason my arguments seem persuasive is that I am intelligent and have an excellent vocabulary. Another part might be that I usually don't do anything. Anyway, I just want this day to be over, so we can have some hard evidence to work on.
MOD: Are we allowed a Bah! post? I'm going to PM you some stuff to use in your flavour if I am involved, and a bah in case I can't post it myself.
Would you more thoroughly explain why you're getting so frustrated?
-Zaithemaster never voted for chaoticjosh. Rather, he chose to vote for Boksi instead. (This was after Josh's plan was set out and his power confirmed) Any particular reason for this, Zai?
Yes. Quite simple, really, and I do believe I said this at that time: my vote was not necessary at that point; voting for Josh would merely have been for show.
And I've been feeling quite exhausted again since I posted that summary of the first few pages, so don't expect much more from me tonight. I believe I may have mono, and will actually be going to the doctor tomorrow.
Hey Zai, glad we could hear from you! Thanks for giving us the most obtusely written WOT I've ever seen, as though to say "Oh snap! I haven't been giving people much content! I'd best rig up something that looks meaningful, but doesn't amount to much at all!".
I mean, not to be unappreciative, but even though you apparently worked hard on it, all you're doing is repeating stuff as it happened verbatim, without actually adding anything.
Post by: Archangel on September 29, 2009, 06:59:24 am
@Arch:I'm not frustrated, I just am tired of this Day that's taken, oh, six or seven RL days and still hasn't finished. And there's sooo many WoT posts. And the people I am thinking are the scum are the ones who've made them. (Dakarian and Alexhans) And the people who are really lurking are pretty much ignored. (Boksi and brothernature, although this point could be contested) So I'm voting against a day extension. Just kill someone damnit! In fact, I think I'll change my vote to myself.I'd like to point out that, because of my double vote, it is a three way tie. I actually don't care what happens to me, and for the last two days expected to discover that I had died. I would do some more analysis, but the people I want to do have made TOO. FUCKING. MANY. POSTS!, so I'm not going to. I suspect that part of the reason my arguments seem persuasive is that I am intelligent and have an excellent vocabulary. Another part might be that I usually don't do anything. Anyway, I just want this day to be over, so we can have some hard evidence to work on.
MOD: Are we allowed a Bah! post? I'm going to PM you some stuff to use in your flavour if I am involved, and a bah in case I can't post it myself.
Would you more thoroughly explain why you're getting so frustrated?
Hmm.
Yes. U\unvote and vote myself.
End the damn day!
Post by: Cheeetar on September 29, 2009, 07:19:34 am
To continue the 'what if person flipped town':Yes, I would pick you as scum if Mr. Person flipped town, even though I went after him as well. I know my alignment, and would know that I just made a stupid mistake. I wouldn't do you the favour of assuming you made a stupid mistake, and would instead assume that you planned to have a townie die.
You said that I would be scum if Person flipped town eh, even though you're pushing for a Person death as well?
Wait.. more so.. I've STOPPED going after Person a good while ago. My vote is on Arch now and I'm turning to others. Person is neutral to me and was so when you first posted that "Dak would be scum" (note, I was after Alex). Meanwhile, you are STILL after Person.
Yet you would go for Dakarian as scum for getting Person killed.
Using my own lurker policy is a nice touch as well. So is the backtracking of your comments.
I won't let you backtrack though. When Alex asked you gave those three people and JUST those three. WHY? Even if you feel it was bad now, you had a reason then. WHY?
Especially josh. If you forgot about Josh reviving Web then you had something else in mind when you thought of josh. What was on your mind then? I don't care if it was 'bad'. I want to hear it anyway.
As to my bad 'if Mr. Person flipped town' answer, I picked the three people who were currently talking about Mr. Person as being scummy.
Post by: Alexhans on September 29, 2009, 08:03:35 am
Archangel... Stop complaining. Keep your cool. Don't be a jerk.
For what's worth. I don't feel like lynching Archangel right now because his reactions seems genuine town.
We need to lynch RedWarrior or Brothernature.
I'm at a loss as to who to choose first but I guess brothernature will do just fine.
Post by: dakarian on September 29, 2009, 09:43:09 am
I wouldn't do you the favour of assuming you made a stupid mistake, and would instead assume that you planned to have a townie die.
*parrot* why?
I get dense sometimes, but I don't get it. WHY, when you made the same mistake I had, when you know YOUR reasoning, as town, as to why you did it, why am I exempt? Why do I take responsibility while you get a pass?
Yes yes, you know your alignment. However, you DON'T know mine. If a town like you commit a mistake then why, oh WHY is the next person that does likewise 'oh so obviously scum'? If there's something special about me that prompts that exception then I'd like to hear it.
Quote
As to my bad 'if Mr. Person flipped town' answer, I picked the three people who were currently talking about Mr. Person as being scummy.
Be VERY careful with that next time. Just picking folks who show up behind you is almost like trying to randomvote at this point in time. "Oh, who to pick who to pick.. let me look through last page and see who posted there".
@Alex Fine fine. Arch gets to stay in his nightmare one more day, but I'm not going to stop pushing him.
A deal perhaps: your hammer, so if you really to lurker hunt with then then fine, but our lynch is going to lynch a scum suspect.
Brother's last post ANYWHERE is on Sept 24 in this thread. I actually think that the game has overwhelmed him. He logs in, but doesn't do anything beyond that. I'm wondering if he may need a replace rather than a kill. There's also the possibility that he's waiting for the WOTs to die down: he posted alright until those started popping up.
Red, though, has been around.. a bit. Zaith's been pressuring him and there doesn't seem too much to get from him beyond that. He bandwagons a bit, doesn't offer much beyond what's already out there and otherwise hides.
Unvote
So if it's between the two, I'd say Redwarrior
Post by: Leafsnail on September 29, 2009, 09:56:06 am
Quote
Mr.Person: Boksi, Redwarrior0, ToonyMan, Pandarsenic, CheeetarAs for the queries I've received - no, you may not tactically quote your role pm for a modkill. Doing so will result in a ban from future rounds, and it's cheating (otherwise you could just get everyone except webadict to quote their role pms and win instantly).
Archangel: webadict, Mr.Person, Archangel
Redwarrior0: Zaithemaster, Dakarian
Alexhans: Diakron
brothernature: Alexhans, Mephansteras
I cannot answer specific questions about roles on this thread - I can only answer them via pm if it's either your role or your known role. Next round of Bay 12 Mafia will probably have unknown roles, with abilities seperated out clearly into alignment, passive and active abilities for less confusion.
Post by: Alexhans on September 29, 2009, 12:20:50 pm
Vote RedWarrior. (needs 3 votes to overcome Mr.Person's 5 votes)
I mostly agree with Web's list...
Cheeetar and Pandarsenic are scummier every minute. Pandar isn't even trying to scumhunt but keeps trying to befriend everyone...
Cheeetar is mild too and looking to avoid suspicion more than scumhunt.
I have some players in mind for a temporal ban from future games but it has nothing to do with the current game so...
if we can get Redwarrior or brother to get more votes than mr.person I hammer.
Cheeetar and Pandar are also going against the confirmed townies strategy with no reasoning as to why they would do it.
I hope Diakron comes soon and tell us what he thinks.
4 mafia with 15 players can be a bit harsh...
15 - 1 lynch: 14
14 - 1 kill: 13
and so on.
l: 12
k: 11
l: 10
k: 9
if we mislynch 3 times we're going to be left in 9 player lylo wich is fucked up.
town killing will reduce our possible mislynches. I won't kil someone who I think town.
Bye.
Post by: dakarian on September 29, 2009, 12:38:31 pm
Red hasn't given much out, but the little he does give looks wrong: not just unhelpful, but wrong.
Btw, I'm opting for Cheeetar for the lynch, though that's not solid yet since I'm still questioning him.
If not Cheeetar, then Panda. What's with the "hmm, maybe web really IS scum and Leaf is messing with us? Oh, just kidding." Nothing like sewing the worst kind of chaos by making the town outguess the mod.
Post by: Mephansteras on September 29, 2009, 12:43:58 pm
Mephansteras, why AREN'T you scum?
Well, other then the fact that I didn't get put on the scum team, let's see.
- I've tried to be helpful to the town. I pushed Mr.Person early on when he was behaving really suspiciously, but when he stopped being defensive and actually gave us some good solid reasons for his actions I turned to find someone else who was acting odd. Boksi, in that case, since he was shamelessly lurking and jumping on bandwagons without good reason.
- When Josh brought up his idea I tried to make sure that we didn't dive headfirst into something without thinking it through. It turned out to be a good plan, but with all the odd roles out there I really wanted to make sure we weren't doing something stupid.
- I've tried to remind people that we have a lot of rather suspicious lurkers in our midst, while so many others were embroiled in giant debates amongst themselves. We do this to ourselves all the time, lynching the active players who are trying to scumhunt while the real scum slink through to victory.
- While I haven't been quite as active as I'd like, I've still done my best to contribute to the conversations, give my opinions, and answer any questions thrown my way. I may not be in the spotlight as much as some others, but I've done my best to be active in this game and help the town out.
There. If you have any other specific questions, let me know. Now, how about you answer us for a change? You're our confirmed townie, but you're being about as helpful as ToonyMan. All you've given us is bold statements of so-and-so is scum!!! You have to lynch them because I said so!, but that's not helpful. You've got a good sense for scum, webadict, but you're also wrong quite a bit. I see it all the time in Paranormal, and I'm not going to blindly follow you without knowing why you've picked who you picked. I'm willing to believe that you've got one or two scum in that list, but since I know you're wrong about me you could easily be wrong about the others as well.
For what's worth. I don't feel like lynching Archangel right now because his reactions seems genuine town.
We need to lynch RedWarrior or Brothernature.
Thank you, Alex, it's about time people started paying attention to the fact that we've got players lurking around and jumping on bandwagons without any real reasons. Boksi, RedWarrior0, and Brothernature are all suspicious. They may not all be scum, but I'm betting at least one or two of them are.
Post by: dakarian on September 29, 2009, 12:57:12 pm
So to you, which one of the three should be hammered, and, if you have it already, which one shall we lynch?
If you are solid on the hammer, able to put a vote up on them?
Post by: Mephansteras on September 29, 2009, 01:27:52 pm
@Meth
So to you, which one of the three should be hammered, and, if you have it already, which one shall we lynch?
If you are solid on the hammer, able to put a vote up on them?
Let me go back through and look at those three and I'll be able to answer this. My gut says Boksi and RedWarrior0 since Brothernature has been more lurky then bandwagoning, but I want to confirm that before I vote for a hammer. My current vote on brothernature is to pressure him into talking, so do not take that as a vote to hammer him yet.
Post by: Mr.Person on September 29, 2009, 01:39:49 pm
Oh, hey MP. This might not have been purposeful, but you really didn't answer a question I posed a while ago.Quote from: MeQuoteOn a more serious note, well no shit Sherlock, what were you expecting, us to roll over and bow to your will? I think Alexhans is town, so I defend him. He thinks I'm town, he defends me. ANYTHING ELSE WOULD BE SCUMMY, PERIOD.
Whil I was typing this, I just realized something. Imagine, for a second, Alexhans is scum and I'm town. Would he not of, you know, acted on his bet with ToonyMan? Not only would it kill off a townie (At the town's request, no less), but it also would have made him seem less scummy and put a major egg on ToonyMan's face as well as half the rest of the town. This just makes me all the more certain of Alexhans not being scum. Of course, it could be, say, a ToonyMan Alexhans scumteam, but if that's the case, I precongratulate you two on managing to be hard to detect... but also really stupid.
In the first two sentences, you say that if you think someone's town, you should defend him, period. If I may ask a question, should you still do this if you don't have solid evidence? Should you do this if you have to resort to broken/half-assed arguments? Should you do this even if it means potentially poisoning the town's momentum?
Oh, sorry, I must have missed that. And my answer is yes, you should defend players you think are town. You could spend all day worrying if you're wrong, or you can just go forward if you're right. However, you should only do this if the evidence, the good evidence, says that the person is town. You know, town reads, good scum hunting, pressuring players and constantly voting scum, all that good shit. If you're "resorting to broken half-assed arguments", reconsider who you think is on the town. So yes, defend players you think are town but don't worry about the rest of the town. If all goes well, you can convince them to at least look elsewhere, you just have to be good at saying why the other guy is town. Worst case scenario, the town lynches both of you. That's a terrible town and really good scum, so meh. If you're wrong and the other player really is scum, if you didn't realize that at some point in the game it's not like you were going to lynch that player off, so you were going to lose anyways.. And if the town lynches the both of you, that's 1 townie for 1 scum, good deal.
Don't let small details like possibly being wrong get in the way of what you're doing.
Post by: dakarian on September 29, 2009, 01:42:52 pm
And yes, that makes that the fourth paragraph I would've loved to have had days ago.
Post by: Mr.Person on September 29, 2009, 01:45:50 pm
Not sure I would go by that strategy, but, at least, it no longer sounds like a wacky-silly strategy.
And yes, that makes that the fourth paragraph I would've loved to have had days ago.
Lots of stuff gets lost in WoT's, the one thing I don't like about them. You know, maybe we should just PM each other questions so they don't get lost in the WoT's. It's quite sad that I'm almost considering doing that. Almost.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 29, 2009, 01:47:44 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on September 29, 2009, 02:01:32 pm
Let's see what we have here:
brothernature
Why don't we get Alex to hammer-kill Person when the day resets instead of wasting the days lynch? I'd much rather do that, so if he does flip town, we might have a chance to lynch scum today.
Analysis: Dakarian picked this up and started pushing for the Hammer of Mr.Person. After this post, well, nothing at all from brothernature as far as I saw. I really want brothernature to show up and play. I know 30-odd pages of stuff is a lot to ask a new player to go through, but at the very least he could look at the last couple of pages and give us something to work off of. I'm not really willing to lynch him at this point, though, since there is little to go off of.
RedWarrior0
Oh, shoot. My post count for the day got reset.
I wouldn't be surprised if a role named after me was another one based off lurking.
So I need another post.
Archangel, why are dakarian, meph, diakron, zai, cheeetar, and pandar "no comment"? What exactly do you want me to come out and do, other than post and vote my suspicions?
We've decided to hammer ArchAngel? Let's figure out who to lynch after him. Alex was refusing to DK Mr.Person at one point. Pandar and Toony are seeming to agree. Archangel is as good as dead at this point.
By the way, has cj posted much recently?
How many do you need voting him to use the hammer? Because a majority is 8 IIRC, and we have 6 on him.
Also, I assume your decision to wait for his claim means your decision on the hammer as well. What role(s) would you choose to not hammer?
Okay. I'll unvote.
Alex, why were you so sure that Mr.Person was town earlier? Scumbuddies with him, perhaps?
More later. I'm currently getting kicked off the computer.
---- The heck? Alex, I assume you're joking here, right?
Yes. RedWarrior... and with you too? Did you forget about our quicktopic or something? ::) I AM pretty sure Mr.Person is town.
Why are you unvoting Archangel? Why did you vote him in the first place? Why didn't you mention you had any suspicions about me being with Mr.Person before?
"More later"? I hope there's something else than this poor attempt to copycat others so you look like scumhunting.
---- Back to RedWarrior
Is this how Alexhans normally plays? Insistance that a person is town, based off meta-knowledge? An absolute Lynch all Lurkurs policy? Second, I doubt he would have hammered on the first Day 1 if the Cobrarsenic role ability was known. Better yet, he would have hammered a mafia guy.
So, to be sort of productive, I re-propose the hammering of Mr.Person.
@Diakron: As zai told me, web makes mistakes sometimes. And as you said, he isn't a god.
Analysis: Lots of bandwagoning and pushing to hammer Mr.Person without really giving many reasons of his own. Sounds to me like he might be scum trying to rush things along and get a townie killed.
Boksi
Hmmm. I don't really have any excuse for not posting except forgetfulness. I don't have that much experience in these things, so I haven't made many assumptions either. But for now, I'll unvote and vote chaoticjosh. It seems like a decent idea right now, or at least better than trying to lynch Alexhans. Besides, it's getting a clear majority already.
Right now, I'm the most suspicious of Mr. Person, due to his general behavior, but I'm not ruling out anybody but myself.
Well, my reason for voting Alexhans was Mr. Person's defense of him. I found it very suspicious and he seems to be overreacting to a lot of things. Not frothing at the mouth, sure, but his overall writing style seems a little... agitated.
Now, I'd also like you to remember that I don't have as much experience as most of you do, so my inexperience means I don't always make good decisions or arguments.
...That's just going to make you suspect I'm scum trying a "i'm new halp plz" ploy, isn't it?
Anyway, I seem to be overly fond of bandwagoning, so I'm voting Mr. Person now.
Hm. I guess I don't have this burning drive compelling me to read and write massive walls of text and analyze people based on their current behavior, future behavior and behavior in relation to current knowledge and other people's behavior. Instead I make hasty decisions based on hunches. Hee, I'm being a bad player. How amusing. Or not, if you take a freaking text game on the internet seriously enough to hold grudges, but I don't think you do. Do you?
Compare my behavior if you want. I was scum in Mind & Magic Mafia 2 and Ridiculous Mafia 2. I can't be bothered to do this analysis stuff.
But on to Meph's question. Why did I bandwagon Mr. Person? It's a question which I can't truly answer myself. I guess I didn't like his overzealousness. I mean, he seems like the most aggressive person in this game, well outpacing Alexhans. But maybe that's because I don't spend as much time poring over this thread like you guys?
Hm. I guess I don't have this burning drive compelling me to read and write massive walls of text and analyze people based on their current behavior, future behavior and behavior in relation to current knowledge and other people's behavior. Instead I make hasty decisions based on hunches. Hee, I'm being a bad player. How amusing. Or not, if you take a freaking text game on the internet seriously enough to hold grudges, but I don't think you do. Do you?
Compare my behavior if you want. I was scum in Mind & Magic Mafia 2 and Ridiculous Mafia 2. I can't be bothered to do this analysis stuff.
But on to Meph's question. Why did I bandwagon Mr. Person? It's a question which I can't truly answer myself. I guess I didn't like his overzealousness. I mean, he seems like the most aggressive person in this game, well outpacing Alexhans. But maybe that's because I don't spend as much time poring over this thread like you guys?
That's fine, just one small detail. Why, exactly, is aggressiveness scummy?
Well, aggression isn't exactly scummy... How do I put this? Well, I really can't point to anything concrete. There's something about his style, especially early on, that just rubs me the wrong way.
Well. I have to stabilize my sleep patterns and it's almost eleven, so...
Eh, I've been trying to think of something to say for a while now but I realized I don't have anything worthwhile to say. I'll be trying to follow these massive WOTs, and while it is doable with my degree of reading comprehension I really want to say that I don't find WOTs to be such a good thing. Especially when WOTs start quoting WOTs in their entireties.
Anyway, I might have more things to say more when something concrete has happened. As in actual events, like webadict getting hammered. I still suspect Person enough to maintain my vote on him, mostly because his flip will really influence my reasoning.
So, status quo for me.
FAKE-EDIT: OH GOD ZAI, PARAGRAPHS, PARAGRAPHS. I CAN BARELY READ THAT!
Analysis: Playing the new player card a lot and is both jumping on bandwagons and acting really cautious. Most of his arguments are based on 'feelings' and 'post style' rather then any concrete behavior. Could be new player anxiety, or he could be a new scum player who's not sure what to do. I'm still leaning scum.
So, I'm going to unvote and vote RedWarrior0, with an intention to vote Boksi afterwards. Redwarrior0 seems a bit more scummy, since I know he's been in a few mafias at this point. I don't know Boksi's playstyle, so I'm less sure about him.
Brothernature I'll have to hold off on until we get more information. He's just given us too little to go off of for us to risk hammering him or lynching him today. As web pointed out, we're in a bad spot this game with the # of scum vs town, so we really can't afford to be careless with this.
Post by: Mr.Person on September 29, 2009, 03:04:27 pm
In any case, thank you Mephansteras, not even for your insight, but mostly because you brought the posts together (Although your insight is good!). Personally, I didn't like anything those three have said, they're all too cautious, like they know I'm going to flip town and want to be able to say "I told you I wasn't sure, it's your fault he was lynched!"
I agree with Mephansteras, I'll unvote and vote RedWarrior. He outright said that Archangel was as good as dead, I think he was trying to get the rest of us onto Archangel and have him killed off. Although it could be a bus, I would be inclined to think Archangel is less likely to be scum if RedWarrior is scum. Bussing in this case would just be really, really stupid, since there's no gain to bussing right now. He's also not contributing at all, he only jumped in to say "Alexhans and MrPerson could be scumbuddies" which really implies "Alexhans and MrPerson could be scumbuddies, we should lynch them, but don't blame me when they flip town"
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 29, 2009, 03:29:44 pm
However, Redwarrior has lurked, not responded to comments and questions asked to him directly, refused to participate, and generally just bandwagoned the entire game. I have no problem with a Redwarrior daykill.
Quote from: Mephansteras
So, I'm going to unvote and vote RedWarrior0, with an intention to vote Boksi afterwards. Redwarrior0 seems a bit more scummy, since I know he's been in a few mafias at this point. I don't know Boksi's playstyle, so I'm less sure about him.
Hmm... intention to vote Boksi afterwards you say? How will Redwarrior's flip affect your perspective? If he's town? If he's scum?
Post by: Mephansteras on September 29, 2009, 03:40:01 pm
Hmm... intention to vote Boksi afterwards you say? How will Redwarrior's flip affect your perspective? If he's town? If he's scum?
Honestly, Redwarrior's flip really won't effect it. I'm planning on voting Boksi after this to put pressure on him so we can try to get more out of him and determine if he is indeed scum or not. I'm thinking he is, and he could just as easily be scum with or without RedWarrior0. It's not like they've been doing anything that really ties them together other then general scummy behavior.
Post by: webadict on September 29, 2009, 03:44:55 pm
"You're scum"
"Why?"
"Because you're scummy."
"I am?"
"YES!"
You're not a very good scum, Meph... You're not.
Post by: Diakron on September 29, 2009, 04:06:30 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on September 29, 2009, 04:16:17 pm
why are we suddenly bandwagoning on Redwarrior? i still think that alexhans and Mr. Person are scum, and quite a few people have said the same but no one acts on it :(
This is just a poor attempt to insight reactions from people so that they'll vote for me/Alexhans, but you simply can't come up with a reason for people to do so. Maybe if you actually argue'd, people would listen to you.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 29, 2009, 04:17:14 pm
Post by: Diakron on September 29, 2009, 04:19:48 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 29, 2009, 04:22:50 pm
Dakarian, I said that it was no more than idle musing on why a confirmed townie can't see scum, and I said it should be ignored, so fucking ignore it.
Also, Alexhans, don't give me the "going against the mod for no reason" bullshit. I've said why. Your fucking scumbuddy Mr.Person also wants to hear webby's reasoning. I want to know why he accuses me. If I can't even be given the chance to defend myself, or if you lynch me while I'm away at my classes....
Post by: Mephansteras on September 29, 2009, 05:07:04 pm
What's your opinion on RedWarrior0? Scum? Should Alex hammer him?
Come on, Web, you're the one person here I can actually listen to and know that you've got the town's best interests at heart and you aren't doing anything to be helpful. You accused me of being 'laid-back' earlier. Yeah, I was, because it was early on in the day and we'd just gotten a confirmed townie. I know how powerful that is, I've seen it in Paranormal often enough. And we're even better off here, since we didn't even have to lose anyone to confirm you. But now I'm starting to get worried, because the one person who could really be helping us out is refusing to be helpful at all.
Fine, you think I'm scum and everything I've said hasn't changed that opinion. What about everyone else? What about Pandarsenic. You said he's scum. Why? Why should we lynch him and not, say Boksi? What about the others?
Don't let the town shoot itself in the foot, Web. People aren't listening to you because you aren't giving them reason to. I'm willing to listen but you have to give me something to work with.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 29, 2009, 05:15:44 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 29, 2009, 05:35:11 pm
posting quickly between classes:
Vote RedWarrior. (needs 3 votes to overcome Mr.Person's 5 votes)
Cheeetar is mild too and looking to avoid suspicion more than scumhunt.
Cheeetar and Pandar are also going against the confirmed townies strategy with no reasoning as to why they would do it.
I'm being too mild now? After I was pushing for a lynch of both you and Mr. Person, I've unvoted and now you're convinced I'm too mild?
I'm not going to trust Webadict simply because he's the confirmed townie. He does not know who scum is or not. He is the confirmed townie, which means that everyone knows he's not scum. If Webadict says vote for someone, I'd like him to explain why, because he isn't necessarily right.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 29, 2009, 05:38:17 pm
Webadict is scum guys.You're not helpful either.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 29, 2009, 05:47:30 pm
Webadict is scum guys.You're not helpful either.
I'm sick of this day. Most Mafia GAMES are shorter than this.
Post by: Alexhans on September 29, 2009, 08:55:49 pm
I'm gonna send the kill now unless someone has anything to say before...
We should have enough time to discuss after he flips.
Post by: webadict on September 29, 2009, 10:03:11 pm
I'm home... But I have to do a lot of things before going to bed.SOMEONE DIE ALREADY!
I'm gonna send the kill now unless someone has anything to say before...
We should have enough time to discuss after he flips.
Post by: Alexhans on September 29, 2009, 10:05:06 pm
Post by: Archangel on September 30, 2009, 06:23:43 am
Post by: Alexhans on September 30, 2009, 06:27:22 am
If you don't want to play ask for a replacement.
Post by: Archangel on September 30, 2009, 06:36:38 am
Post by: Alexhans on September 30, 2009, 07:34:16 am
They're just to let people cheer up his team with a non-informative post like "Go Town!", "Go Scum!", etc...
Post by: dakarian on September 30, 2009, 08:33:29 am
I'm trying to befriend everyone? Hardly.
Dakarian, I said that it was no more than idle musing on why a confirmed townie can't see scum, and I said it should be ignored, so fucking ignore it.
Also, Alexhans, don't give me the "going against the mod for no reason" bullshit. I've said why. Your fucking scumbuddy Mr.Person also wants to hear webby's reasoning. I want to know why he accuses me. If I can't even be given the chance to defend myself, or if you lynch me while I'm away at my classes....
Heh, angry are we?
No, I won't let that go. The time for laughy laughy jokey jokey has long, LONG past. Now I'm going to hold on to your statement AND take note that applying a little pressure causes you to panic.
Oh my, lynch you while you are away for classes? I know I've been able to turn a bandwagon or two this game but one night is a bit much, especially since not a single vote is on you at the moment.
Well, for now. Now I think I'll supply the first vote the second the mod finishes that kill. How's that sound?
Post by: Cheeetar on September 30, 2009, 08:49:02 am
Post by: dakarian on September 30, 2009, 09:06:27 am
why are we suddenly bandwagoning on Redwarrior? i still think that alexhans and Mr. Person are scum, and quite a few people have said the same but no one acts on it :(
To sum up:
After lots of lots of push on Mr. Person, I'm led to believe that his attitude MAY be his personality. Meanwhile, he explained a few other matters that makes sense of the rest of him. As such, I've deemed him as neutral: I think we're better off pushing him more later after seeing more from him. He's not out of the woods, but it's enough to not demand his death from me.. for now.
Without Person being confirmed scum, Alex as scum is crazy. Thus it's led me to pull from Alex as well.
Reason for that: If Alex was scum and Person was town, Alex would've ruined Toony fast, killed a townie, and greatly help his credibility. As it stands, he still faces hate from the 'bothscum' camp and even I'm not going to fully confirm him town for failing the bet. I doubt he's silly enough not to realize that he, as scum, would be better off taking the bet.
Now, there is the possibility of a Alextown/Personscum or Bothscum, but I think we need more info on them first before finishing that off.
Btw, it's best to remove the 'they are scumbuddies' aspect for now: linking two people together as scum early on is dangerous since it may ruin you argument if the link fades away.
Thus the wagon is away from them for now.
As for Redwarrior: Meth grabbed the posts I had looked at earlier. Red active lurks and hides behind bandwagoning.
@Cheeetar
Yes, you're being passive, and you're stumbling over your own self.
Quote
I'm being too mild now? After I was pushing for a lynch of both you and Mr. Person, I've unvoted and now you're convinced I'm too mild?
Earlier: (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=42096.msg786640#msg786640)
Quote
1. I'm pretty sure Mr. Person is scum, and I don't know what to assume if he isn't.
Quote
Unvote. Vote Mr. Person.
You DIDN'T pull away from them. In fact, your last talk about how you feel with Alex is suspicion (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=42096.msg785123#msg785123).
You're vote is still on Mr. Person by the way.
So you weren't being passive when you showed you're still after Person. NOW you are since you're sounding like you stopped going after them while still having your vote on one of them.
You also question dodged me.
Post by: Leafsnail on September 30, 2009, 09:44:50 am
He grins madly, and turns to address the assembled audience.
"Evening, everyone! It's good to see all of you gathered here!!" he smiles an adorable smile. There's a pause. Webadict, on seeing Alexhans in the middle of the room again, yelps and runs out of the door.
"What are you doing here... again?" says Mr.Person, breaking the silence.
"I'm here to deliver democracy, Mr.Person-san!" says Alexhans, still as smiley as ever. "And for that reason, RedWarrior0-san, I must ask you to die!"
"WHAT THE HELL?!" says RedWarrior0, who is standing right in front of him, "WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO KILL ME, SCUM? YOU'RE SCUM, AREN'T YOU!?"
"Not quite, Red-san!" says Alexhans, still grinning. Hmm, one of his eyes is beginning to change colour, and for some reason you have bad memories about that. "But sometimes democracy can't wait!" Before RedWarrior0 can react, the small figure runs forwards and begins to attack with a hammer. You hear yells and what sounds like incoherent Japanese, before RedWarrior0 is finally left in a broken heap on the floor. You aren't sure why, but you weren't very surprised by any of this.
Hmm, RedWarrior0 seemed to be very angry, and very aggressive when it came to be his turn to die. In fact, coupled with the poster in his room that says "Tunnel Vision Fest - 2008", you work out that he was LoonyMan!
Quote
You are LoonyMan. You love getting into arguments. A lot. If you are lynched and your vote is on one of the people voting for you, that person is lynched with you. Because double lynches are, like, the way forwards.
You aren't entirely sure what should happen now. You wait for RedWarrior0 to transform, or explode, or DO SOMETHING NEW AND EXCITING, but nothing interesting happens. A quick search of his room reveals nothing untoward, so you work out that he was, in fact, Hotel Aligned.
All votes on RedWarrior are off him, and on "abstain". The day will continue... for another 24 hours. DAMNIT, ALEXHANS, WHY DID YOU HAVE TO USE YOUR ABILITY NOW?!!? Ah well, at least someone's dead.
And in case you're wondering, that was a Day Kill, not a lynch, so the LoonyMan power did not activate. And there should be just one more piece of Deja vu flavour text left now.
Post by: dakarian on September 30, 2009, 10:02:49 am
@Alex Well there you go. We got that lurker kill. Now I want some real suspects.
@Panda
I said I would.. so here it is. Vote Pandasenic
Response?
@Cheeetar
My vote isn't rock steady yet, so mind answering that question I gave you earlier? If you forgot:
You said of Person flipped town you'd consider me scum even though you were also pushing for him. You said your push was an honest mistake since your town but you refuse to give me the same consideration. I asked what makes me special to you that the thought of being a townie wasn't considered.
I'll also add this: Why did you tell Alex that you stopped gunning for him and Person when your vote was still on him and you still declare Person as scum and Alex suspect for protecting Person?
Post by: dakarian on September 30, 2009, 10:04:14 am
@Those who believe Person is scum
Able to bring up the current list of accusations against him?
Post by: Leafsnail on September 30, 2009, 10:08:03 am
Post by: dakarian on September 30, 2009, 10:48:39 am
I mean, you took an idea off of endless eight that doesn't involve wet t shirts (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://rehikage.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/mazui_suzumiya_haruhi_no_yuuutsu_2009_-_13_cc37169d02179302-31-29.jpg&imgrefurl=http://rehikage.wordpress.com/2009/06/28/haruhi-season-2-ep-3-really-episode-2-ver-15498/&usg=__jW0GBhptbtMwGzEs_KD1rz004_k=&h=720&w=1280&sz=54&hl=en&start=4&sig2=zfURkaKruD7Aku6duUQySA&um=1&tbnid=1n_eB_j3lmJn7M:&tbnh=84&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dwet%2Bt%2Bshirt%2Bmikuru%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1&ei=WH3DSvvJL5TCtweJ3NjyBA) and you wonder why you're regretting it?
Post by: Alexhans on September 30, 2009, 11:01:55 am
I'm writing a post.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 30, 2009, 11:27:50 am
Post by: ToonyMan on September 30, 2009, 11:32:45 am
One more
@Those who believe Person is scum
Able to bring up the current list of accusations against him?
To sum it up:
- Too Defensive, Cautious Aggressive.
- Backing Up Alexhans, I don't care if they both say that would be stupid, this is Mafia.
I still don't like what he's playing right now, especially back when him and Alexhans were bashing me and making me look worthless.
Post by: dakarian on September 30, 2009, 11:47:34 am
The hyperlink, though, is annoying. I'm deadset sure if we go after Person again it'll be another 12 page WOT madhouse from both. I won't let that stop me but I'll need solid evidence before going in there.
@Defense/cautious aggressive:
I'll give me a nice focal point to watch how he handles post-attack and with half the town still itching for his blood.
While I constantly cry to him "WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY THAT EARLIER". I have noted that he DIDN'T say that earlier.
@your bashing
I burned them HARD for that. The attitude turned what could've been an easy investigation into a 12 page WOT mess.
Don't feel I'm ignoring you by turning to others. I caught that failed bet when everyone walked away from it and if you dredge up something on them again I'll spot it too.
Post by: Mr.Person on September 30, 2009, 01:32:34 pm
One more
@Those who believe Person is scum
Able to bring up the current list of accusations against him?
To sum it up:
- Too Defensive, Cautious Aggressive.
- Backing Up Alexhans, I don't care if they both say that would be stupid, this is Mafia.
I still don't like what he's playing right now, especially back when him and Alexhans were bashing me and making me look worthless.
Worthless? If you got that impression, I hate to say it, but you're wrong. I'm not sure you're aware, but a ToonyWagon is quite terrifying. It's like a bull charging at you with a laser-guided missile on its back.
Plus not to mention Alexhans considers you town. Although I see what he's saying about the bet, I think it's a null tell since ToonyMan did what a sensible townie would do in that situation but also did what cautious scum would do too. Then again, I don't think ToonyMan IS a cautious scum, so I'm still not sure. Either way, there are more important people to question.
Pandarsenic: If you had all the votes, who would you lynch and why? Who else has been acting scummy, in your opinion?
Zaithemaster: Why did you specifically target the less experienced players? Was it because they're easy lynches?
Alexhans: Would you be in favor of a lurker lynch still? I know I'm not, I want to see an active player lynched, since I believe we now have enough info to properly lynch an active player and *gasp* actually hit scum this time!
Mephanasteras: If Webadict gave good reasoning for his thinking, would you go along with him? What if, say, we lynched Pandarsenic and he flipped town. What would you do then? What if we then lynched Cheeetar and he also flipped town. What would you do then?
Eh, I'm kinda out of WoT's, so expect short posts from me til we lynch somebody. Hell, even this one is kinda long, damnit! Oh well, this is all the questions I have right now.
Post by: Mephansteras on September 30, 2009, 01:44:20 pm
Mephanasteras: If Webadict gave good reasoning for his thinking, would you go along with him? What if, say, we lynched Pandarsenic and he flipped town. What would you do then? What if we then lynched Cheeetar and he also flipped town. What would you do then?
If webadict gave good reasons for his thinking, and I agreed with them, I'd go along with it. For the simple fact that I know that webadict at least has the town's best interests in mind. He might not always be right, but at least I know he's not scum trying to mislead me into lynching town.
If we lynched Pandarsenic and he flipped town, I'd take a very careful look at who voted him and why. We've lost one townie already, and while he was acting really suspicious and scummy we should still be able to find scum among the people that voted for him. With two town lynches we really ought to be able to sniff out scum for the next lynch. It's not a good situation, but it at least gives us a lot of information to go off of.
Would I vote for Cheeetar after Pandarsenic flipped town? I'm not sure. It would depend on what he's done up to that point, as well as any information we got as a result of Night 1. If I still had good reason to vote him, and he was lynched and flipped town? I'm really not sure. Probably seriously rethink Alex and Mr.Person's alignment, but again it really depends on what happens Night 1.
Post by: dakarian on September 30, 2009, 01:58:11 pm
A question from me:
Who do you feel is most acceptable to be lynched today?
If it includes a vote, why are you all set to kill them?
If you're not ready to kill that person quite yet, what are you still waiting for from that person ("to talk more" won't do.. be specific)
Post by: Leafsnail on September 30, 2009, 02:05:38 pm
Really, double :PI'm not wondering why. It's just that I forgot the 3 weekday phases would result in 8 (rather than 6) days without night falling. Oops.
I mean, you took an idea off of endless eight that doesn't involve wet t shirts (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://rehikage.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/mazui_suzumiya_haruhi_no_yuuutsu_2009_-_13_cc37169d02179302-31-29.jpg&imgrefurl=http://rehikage.wordpress.com/2009/06/28/haruhi-season-2-ep-3-really-episode-2-ver-15498/&usg=__jW0GBhptbtMwGzEs_KD1rz004_k=&h=720&w=1280&sz=54&hl=en&start=4&sig2=zfURkaKruD7Aku6duUQySA&um=1&tbnid=1n_eB_j3lmJn7M:&tbnh=84&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dwet%2Bt%2Bshirt%2Bmikuru%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1&ei=WH3DSvvJL5TCtweJ3NjyBA) and you wonder why you're regretting it?
Anyway, no worse than skipping a night, I guess, the only difference being flavour and resurrections.
Post by: webadict on September 30, 2009, 02:29:14 pm
@MethI'm getting really annoyed by the the Meth thing. Say @Meph.
A question from me:
Who do you feel is most acceptable to be lynched today?
If it includes a vote, why are you all set to kill them?
If you're not ready to kill that person quite yet, what are you still waiting for from that person ("to talk more" won't do.. be specific)
Also, Mephansteras has done a personality switch. He's no longer "sounding" scummy, and I'm not sure where it went. I still believe him to be scum.
Post by: Leafsnail on September 30, 2009, 02:36:33 pm
Post by: webadict on September 30, 2009, 02:40:57 pm
Oh, and by the way, if anyone says the words "Day Extension", I may go insane....
Day Extension?
Post by: Mephansteras on September 30, 2009, 02:41:15 pm
Anyway, looking over the last few pages my unofficial vote record on RedWarrior0's lynch is:
dakarian
Alexhans
Mephansteras
Mr.Person
chaoticjosh
That's in order of who voted first->last.
So...I'm really not sure who I'm going to vote for. Pandarsenic didn't jump on that wagon, Cheeetar didn't, and (not surprising) Boksi and brothernature aren't on it either.
Which means I need to sit down and really think things through. Either my assumptions of who is town need to be rethought or the scum are doing a brilliant job of letting us shoot ourselves in the foot.
@Mod: Could we please get official vote tallies for right before the Hammer and the current one? I want to make sure I didn't miss anything.
Post by: Leafsnail on September 30, 2009, 02:52:03 pm
Quote
Day Extension?ji\ghuUIDgusdiohg RAEGQUIT!
That's it! I quote my role pm!
Quote
You are a moderator. You don't take part in the game, and are in charge of handing out roles and running the gameHappy now?
Quote
@Mod: Could we please get official vote tallies for right before the Hammer and the current one? I want to make sure I didn't miss anything.Damn, they were in the looped flavour text, but it seems I accidentally pasted over them. Votecount before the hammer came down:
Quote
Mr.Person: Boksi, Redwarrior0, ToonyMan, Pandarsenic, CheeetarAfter the hammer came down:
Archangel: webadict, Archangel
Redwarrior0: Zaithemaster, Dakarian, Alexhans, Mephansteras, Mr.Person, chaoticjosh
Alexhans: Diakron
Quote
Mr.Person: Boksi, ToonyMan, Pandarsenic, Cheeetar
Archangel: webadict, Archangel
Alexhans: Diakron
Now:
Quote
Mr.Person: Boksi, ToonyMan, Pandarsenic, CheeetarYeah, so basically if you were voting for RedWarrior0 you're now abstaining. Don't worry, this day will
Archangel: webadict, Archangel
Alexhans: Diakron
Pandarsenic: Dakarian
Post by: Mephansteras on September 30, 2009, 02:55:15 pm
Still...I need to rethink things.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 30, 2009, 03:46:46 pm
Unvote.
You think you can use me Pandarsenic? HOW ABOUT NOW.
You keep backing me up, giving me confidence in attacking Mr.Person and Alexhans. You are just scum trying to get Mr.Person and me killed without gaining suspicion. You die today.
Same goes for you Cheeetar, Boksi,......and Dakarian.
The mis-lynch on RedWarrior0 was a clever ruse made by these four people.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 30, 2009, 03:48:25 pm
Post by: Zai on September 30, 2009, 05:34:46 pm
Hmm...looks like I missed Zai. I assume he voted long enough ago that I just didn't go back far enough.
You assume correctly.
Zaithemaster: Why did you specifically target the less experienced players? Was it because they're easy lynches?
While they may have been the least experienced, they were/are hardcore lurkers. Lurking is bad; though not really a scumtell, it is not good for the town. They were/are also heavily bandwagoning, which is anti-town. I did not go after the people that I have because they lack experience; I went after them because they weren't contributing. I was most certain RW0 was scum when he first bandwagonned with the confirmed townie, and then as soon as I called him out on this, he went directly against what the confirmed townie had said to do. While I attributed this to newbie scum, I suppose I should have attributed this to newbies in general.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 30, 2009, 05:43:20 pm
@Cheeetar
My vote isn't rock steady yet, so mind answering that question I gave you earlier? If you forgot:
You said of Person flipped town you'd consider me scum even though you were also pushing for him. You said your push was an honest mistake since your town but you refuse to give me the same consideration. I asked what makes me special to you that the thought of being a townie wasn't considered.
I'll also add this: Why did you tell Alex that you stopped gunning for him and Person when your vote was still on him and you still declare Person as scum and Alex suspect for protecting Person?
First one: I wouldn't suspect myself because I KNOW I AM TOWN. I KNOW I MAKE STUPID MISTAKES. You, however, I don't know you make stupid mistakes. You seem pretty smart. I would then assume that it wasn't an accident that you lynched a townie.
Second one: I unvoted Alexhans. Currently, I am suspicious of the 2nd townie hammer, but I'm not going to vote for either Alexhans or Mr. Person. Unvote.
This game has been going too well for scum. THAT ENDS NOW.
Unvote.
You think you can use me Pandarsenic? HOW ABOUT NOW.
You keep backing me up, giving me confidence in attacking Mr.Person and Alexhans. You are just scum trying to get Mr.Person and me killed without gaining suspicion. You die today.
Same goes for you Cheeetar, Boksi,......and Dakarian.
The mis-lynch on RedWarrior0 was a clever ruse made by these four people.
No, you. Also, this game hasn't been 'going well for scum'. So far we have one dead lurker and one confirmed townie.
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 30, 2009, 05:57:05 pm
@Panda
I said I would.. so here it is. Vote Pandasenic
I think the quality of most accusations against me basically amount to "Was Pandarsenic right about Mr.Person?" or not. I think the statements about me activelurking are bullshit.
Pandarsenic: If you had all the votes, who would you lynch and why? Who else has been acting scummy, in your opinion?
Something is rubbing me wrong about Dak and Cheeetar; if I had all the votes, I would interrogate everyone extensively, confer privately with webadict, and lynch based on that.
If I had to do it immediately, I would cut down Mr.Person because I'm dying to see if I was right.
This game has been going too well for scum. THAT ENDS NOW.
Unvote.
You think you can use me Pandarsenic? HOW ABOUT NOW.
You keep backing me up, giving me confidence in attacking Mr.Person and Alexhans. You are just scum trying to get Mr.Person and me killed without gaining suspicion. You die today.
Same goes for you Cheeetar, Boksi,......and Dakarian.
The mis-lynch on RedWarrior0 was a clever ruse made by these four people.
Uh huh. Except, y'know, I was the first one to point out someone might be guiding you into that and I realized I shouldn't refer to myself or things I'm doing from another perspective when I'm scum, from Dakarian's Beginner II postgame assessment.
Also, I never voted for RedWarrior0 and didn't want him dead.
Post by: Diakron on September 30, 2009, 06:08:56 pm
Quote
Also, I never voted for RedWarrior0 and didn't want him dead.
Same, i don't see any reason to kill a lurker at this point in the game.
Post by: ToonyMan on September 30, 2009, 06:32:24 pm
Post by: JoshuaFH on September 30, 2009, 06:54:17 pm
This game has been going too well for scum. THAT ENDS NOW.
Unvote.
You think you can use me Pandarsenic? HOW ABOUT NOW.
You keep backing me up, giving me confidence in attacking Mr.Person and Alexhans. You are just scum trying to get Mr.Person and me killed without gaining suspicion. You die today.
Same goes for you Cheeetar, Boksi,......and Dakarian.
The mis-lynch on RedWarrior0 was a clever ruse made by these four people.
Actually Toon, what are you talking about here? Explain how Pandar was 'giving you confidence'. You also imply to be very sure of Mr.Person's alignment, when you were just attacking him a little while ago.
@Dakarion You made surprisingly little comment on the RedWarrior mislynch, despite your usual long-windedness.
Now, I'm developing a little theory of my own on who's in the scum team, and it involves you. Before I divulge anything however, would you mind telling us what you might think would me the most likely scum teams, given the information?
Post by: ToonyMan on September 30, 2009, 07:02:15 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on September 30, 2009, 08:04:58 pm
He voted with me. Also, he keeps suggesting the Mr.Person day-kill, me sacrificed bit.God forbid anyone agree with you, Toony.
I thought (and still think) you were right. I think M.P and Alexhans are doing a sort of Refuge In Audacity thing.
Post by: webadict on September 30, 2009, 11:04:56 pm
Mephansteras.
Mephansteras Mephansteras Mephansteras.
Post by: Cheeetar on October 01, 2009, 01:22:53 am
Post by: dakarian on October 01, 2009, 01:40:19 am
@Dakarion You made surprisingly little comment on the RedWarrior mislynch, despite your usual long-windedness.
Now, I'm developing a little theory of my own on who's in the scum team, and it involves you. Before I divulge anything however, would you mind telling us what you might think would me the most likely scum teams, given the information?
About not commenting on Redwarrior.. I actually do think he looked bad: a 'day kook' as I would call it. It makes it tricky to read on who was scummy for voting for him since, in my eyes, a town would have a reason for doing so.
I do, however, accept responsibility for it since I was the one to drop the name when Alex was looking on and, it seems, anyone I point at turns into a bandwagon (Shows the Person, Alex, and Archangel bandwagons for examples).
As for scum teams. Hmm.. current flock would have Cheeetar and Pandasenic in it. The other two would be among my neutrals and 'above neutrals'. They would be little better than guesses at the moment. After those two, I would start putting pressure on Zaith, though not sure what comes from that. I'm hoping that once one or two scum get caught it'll make everything else become clear.
Post by: dakarian on October 01, 2009, 01:42:55 am
Yeah, what is with the 'Meth' thing, anyway? I'm not a drug! :P
I keep reading your name with 'th' for some reason. Also it's easier for me to type (blasted long distance 'P').
Josh got some revenge for you though with "ion" rather than "ian".
Post by: Alexhans on October 01, 2009, 06:49:38 am
I'm about to post.
for now, just in case... vote pandarsenic
Post by: Alexhans on October 01, 2009, 07:19:42 am
Why didn't you want to hammer Mr.Person or Archangel when they were available to you Alexhans?Do you read the game? I think Mr.Person is town and there was no rush to hammer Archangel. I wanted to get a feel on him and pressure ALL of the lurkers.
Quote from: Toonyman
#Your point is that mafia makes people stupid?
# Backing Up Alexhans, I don't care if they both say that would be stupid, this is Mafia.
Quote from: Toony
I still don't like what he's playing right now, especially back when him and Alexhans were bashing me and making me look worthless.Dude... what do you want me to do...? I assume you're town and you're pushing for my mislynch all the time with the lamest arguments ever
Quote from: Mr.Person
Alexhans: Would you be in favor of a lurker lynch still? I know I'm not, I want to see an active player lynched, since I believe we now have enough info to properly lynch an active player and *gasp* actually hit scum this time!Why wouldn't I be? We just got rid of a player that would otherwise hurt town. As I said. Lurker lynch is always a choice in b12. However, I'm not gonna rush into it.
Yeah, what is with the 'Meth' thing, anyway? I'm not a drug! :Plol. I was thinking the same thing.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Zai, Diakron and Meph worry me. They're too neutral.
Boksi, brothernature and Archangel are gonna be a problem.
Quote from: Pandar
Also, I never voted for RedWarrior0 and didn't want him dead.That must mean you're town then... ::)
Quote from: Diakron
Alexhans: why would you hammer a lurker and leave suspected people behind? that plus the fact you hammered 2 townies make me want to keep my vote on you.Who are the suspected people? Suspected by whom? I suspect all lurkers and want them out.
if someone hammers a townie that means they're scum, right? right?
I agree with Toonyman about Pandar buddying to him. He said at some point something like: "sigh... I hope you're right Toonyman. Vote ..."
Quote from: Pandar
I thought (and still think) you were right. I think M.P and Alexhans are doing a sort of Refuge In Audacity thing.riiiiiight... like joking around halfway throught day 1 instead of scumhunting? That was bold...
Mephansteras.Can somebody blame me for killing him? Look how he has been acting this game... Web... I hope you already assigned the PR actions.
Mephansteras.
Mephansteras Mephansteras Mephansteras.
Post by: Alexhans on October 01, 2009, 07:51:42 am
Spoiler: "Old Post I hadn't posted" (click to show/hide)
Post by: Leafsnail on October 01, 2009, 07:56:29 am
Quote
Mr.Person: Boksi, Pandarsenic
Archangel: webadict, Archangel
Alexhans: Diakron
Pandarsenic: Dakarian, ToonyMan, Alexhans
Dakarian: chaoticjosh
Mephansteras: webadict,webadict, webadict, webadict, webadict
The deadline will come at around 8pm GMT +0, which leaves you with 6 hours. No, the deadline will not be extended, not even by 5 minutes. THIS ENDS HERE.
Post by: dakarian on October 01, 2009, 08:34:07 am
Well, we hammed now, and one way or another we pressured everyone to some degree.
*looks over the WOTs.*
I wonder if it was enough? But, I guess that's about it.
@Everyone Is there anyone else that needs to be voted on?
*silence*
Well, that's ok. We got to do a lot of debate this day, so I guess that's enough. We can end the day. I planning on a little more, but we can lurk a little and rest if you want. Let's gather it all back up for Day 2.
*slowly starts to walk away from the thread*
;D
Post by: dakarian on October 01, 2009, 09:02:14 am
Pandarsenic: If you had all the votes, who would you lynch and why? Who else has been acting scummy, in your opinion?
Something is rubbing me wrong about Dak and Cheeetar; if I had all the votes, I would interrogate everyone extensively, confer privately with webadict, and lynch based on that.Quote"who you would lynch" results in a passive accusation and a "I'll need to think about it?"
If I had to do it immediately, I would cut down Mr.Person because I'm dying to see if I was right.
Two people look highly suspicious to you and you're going to kill out of CURIOSITY!?
What's more, why wasn't Alex/Person on that list if you're still agreeing with Toony (who wants them dead). Why is Cheeetar on that list when he still suspects Alex/Person AND, would have me dead if Person flipped town? If your suspicions are correct, that's bussing all of his scumbuddies.
Post by: webadict on October 01, 2009, 10:05:03 am
But, yes, Pandarsenic is suspicious.
And I'll get to your precious PR crossing.
Post by: webadict on October 01, 2009, 10:05:50 am
Post by: dakarian on October 01, 2009, 10:38:06 am
about the 'don't kill him'
Do you mean Meph or Panda and why?
Post by: Leafsnail on October 01, 2009, 11:47:59 am
Post by: Leafsnail on October 01, 2009, 12:09:39 pm
Quote
Mr.Person: Boksi, Pandarsenic
Archangel: Archangel
Alexhans: Diakron
Pandarsenic: Dakarian, ToonyMan, Alexhans, webadict
Dakarian: chaoticjosh
After much consideration, you decide to lynch Pandarsenic.
A familiar looking pentagram suddenly appears on the floor. It would seem that the computer intends for you to use the pentagram as your de facto lynching spot. Remembering something Methilestesas told you yesterday (or was it the day before? Your memories are starting to become confused), you realise it's a Circle of Dramaticism - all events going on in it are 10x more dramatic.
Pandarsenic sighs and steps forwards. He looks up, and draws a gun from his pocket. He throws it aside, out of the pentagram. For some reason you seem to remember him standing in the pentagram... but this time it's different, somehow.
All of you look to each other uneasily. You aren't entirely sure of his guilt. In spite of all that has happened today, you still have doubts. Is he really innocent? Well, there's only one way to find out. Webadict takes up the dropped revolver, the one which Pandarsenic retained from Shot in the Dark mafia and steps into the pentagram with Pandarsenic. The lights around the room fall, apart from a single spotlight on the pentagram, bathing it in an eerie glow.
Webadict levels the revolver at Pandarsenic's head. "Goodbye" he says "I suppose there's only one way to find out if we were right or wrong about you..."
"There's nothing that can be done" says Pandarsenic, sighing, "Shoot."
The room falls silent as webadict places his finger on the trigger, and in an unbelievably sluggish movement...
He fires. You see the path of the bullet, which moves straight through Pandarsenic's chest. Pandarsenic looks surprised as he falls backwards in what looks like delayed motion, seeing a trail of his blood arch spread through the air in front of him. He hits the ground, and finds his breath rapidly leaving him. He has time for just one word before he passes away. Everyone suddenly stiffens - for some reason, this is the last thing you remember. The scene of him lying on the floor in his own blood... perhaps this means?
"Damn."
You sigh in relief as time continues normally. The pentagram dissapears from the floor, and Pandarsenic's body is left lying there. You search his room, but find nothing... except a LOT of books. Tonnes of books. Must've been a bit of a bookadict, in fact. You find nothing on him or in his room to indicate that he is anything other than Hotel Aligned. You look down at the huge book on his table, and open it to the page that seems to be bookmarked. The writing is incomprehensible, but the bookmark...
Quote
You are bookadict. You are a magnet for hopelessly broken roles. While you have no powers this round, the person receiving your role as their known role will think you have a godly power.
This means that... the scum are still at large. The computer generated scum are still out to get you. You think about staying up to try and avoid being killed, but it's no use. You feel something pulling you, something forcing you to go to bed and sleep for the night.
Note: Go ahead and look back at the first day ending text. It's got some parallels, yeah. Kinda coincidental that I chose Pandar to be the executioner first time round, but I guess it worked out.
Post by: Leafsnail on October 01, 2009, 05:38:08 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on October 02, 2009, 03:58:08 pm
As it turns out, no. The bodies of LoonyMan and bookadict still lie on the floor, cold and unmoving. The computer sits in the middle of the room, looking just like an innocent and slightly outdated desktop computer. The fact that it's already killed two people doesn't seem to have changed its outer appearance. You look at it, and begin to wonder what its motives are. Why does it need to play this game with you? Is it just doing the only thing it knows?
Glad that noone was killed, in spite of the computer forcing you all to go to bed, and glad that you are not trapped in any kind of time abberation, you get ready to start the day.
Day 2 will last 5 real life days, starting now.
Post by: Alexhans on October 02, 2009, 04:04:17 pm
Archangel needs to come out and explain what he thinks too. I don't care for his rage, I wanna die and "is it allowed to bah" posts...
I expect him to post his opinions on the game or I'll expect to lynch him.
Now I get why the person who had the Bookadict role didn't mention his information. He didn't have it. Bastard modding... :P
anyway... Frelock... I hope you made a nice, tidy post.
Everybody who has an action send it with the result to webadict.
The nokill or failed kill is a blessing. We are odd numbers again. :)
Post by: Leafsnail on October 02, 2009, 04:06:07 pm
And Boksi responded to a prod, so wasn't replaced.
Post by: Pandarsenic on October 02, 2009, 04:06:56 pm
Post by: Alexhans on October 02, 2009, 04:10:59 pm
Bah post: WHAT DID I FUCKING TELL YOU. A little acknowledgement of how wrong you all were about me, please? -.-We weren't wrong... You didn't play anywhere near what you can do... That was scummy. You didn't really try to defend yourself...
Sorry but this is how it is.
And the fact that you can't answer to this post might be a bit hilarious... ;D
Post by: webadict on October 02, 2009, 04:34:33 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on October 02, 2009, 05:59:22 pm
Alexhans: Mr.Person, ToonyMan, Archangel, brothernature, RedWarrior0, Cleared, Pandarsenic
Archangel: Archangel
Boksi: Mr.Person
chaoticjosh: Mr.Person, RedWarrior0, ToonyMan, Alexhans, unvote, RedWarrior0, Cleared, Dakarian
Cheeetar: Mr.Person, Alexhans, Mr.Person, unvote
dakarian: Pandarsenic, Archangel, Alexhans, unvote, Archangel, RedWarrior0, Cleared, Pandarsenic
Diakron: Mr.Person, Alexhans
Frelock:
Mephansteras: Boksi, brothernature, RedWarrior0, Cleared
Mr.Person: Archangel, RedWarrior0, Cleared
Pandarsenic: Mr.Person, Archangel, Mr.Person
RedWarrior0: Archangel, unvote, Mr.Person
ToonyMan: Mr.Person, Boksi, Alexhans, Mr.Person, Pandarsenic
webadict: Mephansteras, ToonyMan, Archangel, Mephansteras, Pandarsenic
Zaithemaster: Boksi, RedWarrior0, Diakron, RedWarrior0, Cleared
Unvote is when someone unvotes and doesn't immediately revote. Cleared is for everyone who's vote was cleared after RedWarrior0 was hammered.
I'm going to have to go with Dakarian for now, since you've bounced all over the place. And, you managed to vote for two town deaths yesterday.
FOS on Alexhans as well, for being involved in both town kills yesterday.
Post by: Diakron on October 02, 2009, 07:02:11 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on October 02, 2009, 07:17:10 pm
Frelock why did you not vote yesterday???
That's not fair. Frelock is taking over for brothernature, who's the one who didn't vote yesterday.
Post by: Alexhans on October 02, 2009, 07:18:31 pm
Frelock why did you not vote yesterday???How distracted are you??? Frelock replaced Brothernature DURING the night... ::)
Ok... as for scum possibilites: Boksi, Diakron, cheeetar.
Boksi still needs to die as he is not helping.
Meph is not really doing anything with those votecounts. Just Fosing the active players that tried to get a lot of people talking, hence voted a lot of people. Meph just voted the 3 lurkers and didn't really commit to anything.
Post by: Diakron on October 02, 2009, 07:35:30 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on October 02, 2009, 07:45:37 pm
Post by: webadict on October 02, 2009, 07:58:25 pm
He is scum. I have proof now, and that's all I need.
Also, Alexhans, you're scum too. :) Aren't ya? Yes you are!
Likely, the four scum are probably in this list:
Archangel
Mephansteras (Confirmed Scum)
Alexhans
chaoticjosh
dakarian
I'm not quite sure which one among them is completely scum except Mephansteras, but yeah.
Basically, Mephansteras left his house. Without a power role. Huh. Weird, right? So, Mephansteras, how about you SCREW OFF AND DIE!
So, to everyone that said screw you to me yesterday: I hate you, and you deserve to die a horrible horrible death. That is all.
P.S. I AM ALWAYS RIGHT WHEN I SAY IT LIKE THIS!
Post by: Cheeetar on October 02, 2009, 08:01:09 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on October 02, 2009, 08:08:39 pm
Post by: JoshuaFH on October 02, 2009, 08:12:24 pm
I believe Dakarion to be the next scum, but I have a splitting headache, and I can't gather my thoughts at the moment.
Also: Alexhans, mind day-killing Meph? Of course you do, because you're scummity scum scum just like I said all along.
Cheeetar: ready and willing to jump on any train of thought Webadict brings up.
Post by: Cheeetar on October 02, 2009, 08:15:37 pm
Spoiler: For example (click to show/hide)
Post by: JoshuaFH on October 02, 2009, 08:18:16 pm
Post by: Alexhans on October 02, 2009, 08:27:19 pm
Also: Alexhans, mind day-killing Meph? Of course you do, because you're scummity scum scum just like I said all along.If you were observant enough... You would've noticed that I had only ONE SHOT day kill...
But I understand... scum is usually lazy...
Before we lynch Meph I want to hear from people... Who do they think is scum? Boksi, Frelock, archangel, Zai, etc...
Webadict... I have to think about your list... It doesn't convince me.
Post by: Cheeetar on October 02, 2009, 08:31:18 pm
Also: Both of your one-shot day kills were against townies, and your vote to lynch was on a townie.
Post by: webadict on October 02, 2009, 08:33:40 pm
I told you. Mephansteras is scum. So shut up and lynch or be lynched yourself.Also: Alexhans, mind day-killing Meph? Of course you do, because you're scummity scum scum just like I said all along.If you were observant enough... You would've noticed that I had only ONE SHOT day kill...
But I understand... scum is usually lazy...
Before we lynch Meph I want to hear from people... Who do they think is scum? Boksi, Frelock, archangel, Zai, etc...
Webadict... I have to think about your list... It doesn't convince me.
I suppose if you're not going to believe me the first, second, and third times, you're not going to believe me at all.
Nope. Not the confirmed townie with proof. Not the guy who explained why Mephansteras is scum. Not the guy who is RIGHT! NOT THE GUY WHO HAS BEEN SAYING THIS FOREVER!
So, Alexhans gets no say in anything anymore.
He's trying to stall the town and shift focus elsewhere. He's also trying to get roles to claim. Don't. I know a few of you are proven town, however. So, thanks for that. I'll soon release my information to you.
Post by: Alexhans on October 02, 2009, 08:54:59 pm
Im sure Boksi will show up and vote Meph and nothing else. Same with the rest of the players and SPECIALLY his scumbuddies.
Alexhans: Meph is confirmed. A confirmed townie has proof. You're only trying to make sure your scum buddy isn't lynched.You're clearly too dumb to realize that, again, I would NOT Try to get a scumbuddy out of an impossible situation. I'm not DENYING his lynch. It's not like Mr.Person's case. I'm all for lynch Meph. BUT i want to have something other than his flip to go on in the following days.
Also: Both of your one-shot day kills were against townies, and your vote to lynch was on a townie.
The fact that you accuse me so cheaply makes me suspect you even more.
Quote from: Webadict
I told you. Mephansteras is scum. So shut up and lynch or be lynched yourself.Oh... I'm so scared.... ::) By the way... at least respond the pms I send you.
Quote from: web
I suppose if you're not going to believe me the first, second, and third times, you're not going to believe me at all.I didn't say that. I trust your judgement. But the fact that you put 2 town reads and me in a group of 5 where 4 are supposed to be scum makes me want to meditate on the matter.
Quote from: web
Nope. Not the confirmed townie with proof. Not the guy who explained why Mephansteras is scum. Not the guy who is RIGHT! NOT THE GUY WHO HAS BEEN SAYING THIS FOREVER!Congrats. What the fuck is wrong with you...? I didn't say I thought it was fake. I said I wanted input from players other than "Yeah, vote Meph because webadicts got proof, bye"
Quote from: Web
So, Alexhans gets no say in anything anymore.Blah, blah, blah... Webadict needs a shrink... His father obviously never rewarded his accomplishments and he always feels ignored...
Quote from: Web
He's trying to stall the town and shift focus elsewhere. He's also trying to get roles to claim. Don't. I know a few of you are proven town, however. So, thanks for that. I'll soon release my information to you.OH God! You're fucking obtuse. If you want to ignore possible valuable info then you're being silly. Yes, I wanted to be sure that you would have a backup in case you died. And as you had expressed confidence in me I gave it a shot.
Besides... If it weren't for the fact that the game has clearly some broken mechanics (Josh reviving you, etc) this would not be so easy.
You're just relying on power roles because you can (AND I FUCKING GAVE YOU THE IDEA) but those things may eventually fail and we need to have reads as a backup in case we have no proofs.
Also, remember the bastard modding. It can be applied elsewhere.
Post by: Diakron on October 02, 2009, 08:58:20 pm
I believe Dakarion to be the next scum, but I have a splitting headache, and I can't gather my thoughts at the moment.
please put the correct noun in that. it is getting on my nerves to be spliced with Dakarian.
Post by: Cheeetar on October 02, 2009, 08:58:23 pm
Post by: webadict on October 02, 2009, 09:10:53 pm
Feel free to look for scum, but don't get input from others before you have to vote. The only reason you have for that is to lead everyone's attention elsewhere. Find information, but don't distract.
And just because you probably wouldn't do something, doesn't mean you wouldn't. All I have to go off of is your word. Which means about as much to me as a speck of dirt does to a landfill.
Post by: Diakron on October 02, 2009, 09:34:45 pm
Post by: webadict on October 02, 2009, 09:58:59 pm
Webadict i am afraid i am going to have to challenge your authority over everyone. YOU DO NOT HAVE THE POWER TO DISMISS ANYTHING. We can and will have our own opinions. deal with itI'm not saying you can't. I'm just saying that someone is scum and I know it to be true, and for someone to confirm that person as town, one could probably be pretty sure that the confirmed person is telling the truth.
Post by: Frelock on October 02, 2009, 10:04:40 pm
Now on to the others.
Archangel-
I'm somewhat intrigued by his eventual voting of himself. Yes, I'm sure everyone was frustrated at that point and wanted the day to end, but isn't that something of an extreme way of going about it? You also didn't vote any more after that. Why? There were plenty of accusations flying about, and plenty of reason to vote for someone. Did you just let go of this game and forget about it?
Chaoticjosh-
Looking at the handy voting record our scum provided, he's been bouncing around a lot. First he's against Mr.Person. Then he's against the lurker, Redwarrior, then he's going for Toony, then he back against Alex, then Redwarrior again, and finally ends on panda. Now, this wouldn't be suspicious normally; it was a long day and people were bound to change directions, even a 180 change like toony-alex. However, the thing that really gets me is that each of those votes was onto an already-developed bandwagon. Alright, I exaggerate here. I know for a fact that Toony, Alex, Redwarrior (the second time) and Mr.Person(though technically he was the first to vote for Mr.Person, it was clear that everyone wanted him dead as soon as the restart took place) were bandwagons. The others I can't seem to find off-hand, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Still this strikes me as both odd and scummy.
Of course, let's not forget Josh's shining moment: the moment where he gave us a confirmed townie. It was his plan; he came forward about his role and what it did, and suggested the only way it could have worked. There was no way brothernature could have seen that. However I saw it as soon as web died, as Leaf gave me BN's known role too. And everyone else would have seen it when BN finally revealed his known role (if ever). They would have seen that it was the perfect opportunity to get a confirmed townie, and that Josh was smart enough to realize it. They would have lynched him for not revealing his role and giving them a confirmed townie. So he willingly brought about webadicts return. As soon as I read that, I classified it as a null-tell: he'd do it as scum, he'd do it as town. However, I think that that action has, subconsciously or consciously, made people very willing to believe he's town. Note how on all the scum lists around that time he appears in the "most probably town" category. Now understand here, I'm not saying that this makes Josh scummy. I'm saying it's a null-tell and we need to entertain the notion that he is scum, however unlikely that may seem to us.
Dakarian-
I've got nothing. Perhaps I just like his posting style too much, but I can't see why he's suspicious. Perhaps he's just flown under my radar but for the time being, he's neutral on my list.
Alexhans-
Though you're going to yell at me for it, you require a post all your own, and I don't have the literal hour it would take me to do it. I'll get back to you. However, a quick question: was my post nice and tidy?
Post by: Diakron on October 02, 2009, 10:06:52 pm
you had better be right WA
Post by: webadict on October 02, 2009, 10:39:25 pm
vote mephThe only way it's a lie is if the Arg role lied to me... Which I honestly don't think happened.
you had better be right WA
Post by: dakarian on October 03, 2009, 12:40:45 am
@Web
Alright, ball's in your court. You say you have proof and we know you aren't scum so Vote Meph. Besides, I did promise to focus on him next.
Btw, Alex is possible scum but Person isn't? If that's true then I'm going to just cry since it means ALL of my reasonings fail me.
@Alex
I'm going to be blunt: I drop your credibility to 0 when Jerk Alex comes in. You keep saying that 'you shouldn't be guided by your emotions' but I swear you sound to be stuck doing just that. Besides, you're STILL after lurkers (going by the first ones on your 'who do they think is scum' list.) I'm sick of the 'activity = town' bit you have as if all of the mafia are noobs that can't even try to play town.
When you bring up a REAL attack on someone, other than 'they lurk' or 'they voted for me/my friend' then perhaps you'll gain back that cred.
@Frelock
I actually believe Arch has just about given up on things here: A sort of RAGEQUIT. It'll take a while before he posts again: otherwise, he might need a replacement.
As for Josh....I never thought of that. Once brothernature would say something, we WOULD start looking for the Cobrar role anyway.
Post by: webadict on October 03, 2009, 12:53:34 am
It's only theory right now, but it's what I've got to go off of.
Post by: Mr.Person on October 03, 2009, 01:11:14 am
Me personally, I'll lynch lurkers if I've got no better targets. Since obviously we do in fact have a better lynch target, I'll vote Mephanasteras. This is cool, I was thinking Meph was scum anyways.
Now, I don't know why you guys all are blowing up on Alexhans. He made a mistake, and that mistake was not voting Meph BEFORE asking questions. Yes, it's a strange mistake. No, I have no idea why Alexhans isn't voting Meph right now, I can't say since I'm not Alexhans. However, Cheeetar, you're blowing shit out of proportion, and I'm going to have to FoS you for the "the people he voted for were all town!" argument. That argument means nothing, since a townie can reasonably do the exact same things in his shoes as a scum would. It's circumstantial, it proves nothing. Now, why do you think he's scum, and more importantly, why do you think he's scum AKA, what has Alexhans done that is ANTI-TOWN?
@Frelock: No, I personally haven't completely thrown out a Chaoticjosh scum scenario, but I have decided to throw it out for the time being, probably until Day 4. In other words, I'm going to look elsewhere for scum until day 4, or sooner if I don't find any and there are no lurkers. This is, of course, barring more scum-finds by Webadict or cj suddenly lurking real hard or something else of the sort. While awesome, I think the scum is now going to be hiding away very hard.
@Meph: Your silence tells far more than your words in how scummy you are.
Post by: dakarian on October 03, 2009, 01:46:34 am
Example: Archangel was able to go from "must kill" to "neutral or better" to Alex in just a few quick posts (long before he self destructed).
Example 2: He was ready to lynch brothernature if I didn't suggest Redwarrior. Note that brother wasn't even lurking, but was fully away from the game, requiring a full replacement. At that point, you might as well use Random.org for all of the chance you have there.
It's one thing to want to pressure lurkers to talk. It's just anti-town to lynch them all, especially since it becomes easy for scum to simply join in.
I'll go one step beyond you Person. I will NOT lynch full lurkers unless I KNOW they are purposely doing it (via a prod not leading to a replacement). Otherwise, press press press till you have SOMETHING to work off of.
Post by: Archangel on October 03, 2009, 03:28:30 am
Archangel-It was because of my role. I'd already unvoted once, so if I did it again, my vote wouldn't have had any effect. But also because I just stopped caring.
I'm somewhat intrigued by his eventual voting of himself. Yes, I'm sure everyone was frustrated at that point and wanted the day to end, but isn't that something of an extreme way of going about it? You also didn't vote any more after that. Why? There were plenty of accusations flying about, and plenty of reason to vote for someone. Did you just let go of this game and forget about it?
I actually believe Arch has just about given up on things here: A sort of RAGEQUIT. It'll take a while before he posts again: otherwise, he might need a replacement.I've just asked for one. I've lost all will to play this. I apologise for the inconvenience. I suppose I should vote for Meph, but I will leave it up to whoever replaces me.
Post by: Leafsnail on October 03, 2009, 04:16:42 am
Post by: ToonyMan on October 03, 2009, 08:20:35 am
Post by: webadict on October 03, 2009, 09:25:05 am
You lose two Karma points.Archangel-It was because of my role. I'd already unvoted once, so if I did it again, my vote wouldn't have had any effect. But also because I just stopped caring.
I'm somewhat intrigued by his eventual voting of himself. Yes, I'm sure everyone was frustrated at that point and wanted the day to end, but isn't that something of an extreme way of going about it? You also didn't vote any more after that. Why? There were plenty of accusations flying about, and plenty of reason to vote for someone. Did you just let go of this game and forget about it?I actually believe Arch has just about given up on things here: A sort of RAGEQUIT. It'll take a while before he posts again: otherwise, he might need a replacement.I've just asked for one. I've lost all will to play this. I apologise for the inconvenience. I suppose I should vote for Meph, but I will leave it up to whoever replaces me.
Post by: dakarian on October 03, 2009, 11:39:07 am
Dakarian[1]: Mephansteras,
Boksi[1]: Alexhans
Mephansteras[8]: Webadict, Cheeetar, Chaoticjosh, Frelock, Diakron, Dakarian, Mr. Person, Toonyman
Not voting: Zaithemaster, Archangel, Boksi
Zaithemaster needs a prod. He hasn't posted since Wednesday even though he still logs in. Boksi, apperently, is active and lurking (since he got past the Prod if I'm reading the Mod right). Arch we already know about.
Thus everyone that isn't lurking/getting replaced has voted. Meth, though, hasn't said anything since the accusation.
Post by: dakarian on October 03, 2009, 11:41:54 am
And yes, I know I messed it up again at the end. :P
Post by: ToonyMan on October 03, 2009, 11:52:28 am
Post by: Alexhans on October 03, 2009, 12:49:31 pm
vote mephWhat did I tell you gus??? Didn't I foresee this?
you had better be right WA
let's all bandwaggon meph and never do anything else...
Post by: webadict on October 03, 2009, 01:32:34 pm
Post by: JoshuaFH on October 03, 2009, 03:25:43 pm
Now, personally, Dak himself has been very town. Educated, well-spoken, and thorough, and I won't pull any 'too-town' fallacy, but there is a chord that struck wrong with me. That is the Alexhans scuffle, where Dak was the first to jump on, and then the first to jump off when he found some circumstantial that supposedly cleared him. Now, this is just speculation, but if there's an Dak/Alex scumteam, then Alex might have gone overboard defending himself, Dak voted him for it to avoid drawing suspicion to himself (as it's really hard to not attack Alex after his repeated d1 dismissals) and a bandwagon soon followed. Alex told Dak behind the scenes that things were going out of control, and Dak then jury-rigged a handy, palpable reason to unvote him and reverse the effect.
Also, Alex, I've played games with you before, but this is the first one in recent memory where you've resorted to insults, dismissals, flagrant sarcasm, and generally being offensive. You can claim this is all to stir reactions out of people, but when it comes to drastic changes in your personality, excuses only go so far.
Post by: Zai on October 03, 2009, 03:52:13 pm
Frelock why did you not vote yesterday???...Wow. Does this really even require comment? FoS Diakron. Though I have made a (however remotely) similar mistake when the day started in a previous Mafia when I was town: I FoSed/voted for (can't remember which) the person who got nightkilled because he had bandwagoned or something the previous day; I was so tired I forgot who got NK'd.
Before we lynch Meph I want to hear from people... Who do they think is scum? Boksi, Frelock, archangel, Zai, etc......Why is this necessary before Meph is lynched? Regardless, I should hopefully be getting back with something more later on today. I have had neither the time nor the energy to do much of anything recently.
Vote Meph.Thank you for this lovely little contribution, TM.
Anyway. I vote Meph, as I am confident enough in webadict's planning to trust the results.
Post by: Alexhans on October 03, 2009, 04:10:07 pm
Alex told Dak behind the scenes that things were going out of control, and Dak then jury-rigged a handy, palpable reason to unvote him and reverse the effect.Warner and sony are the places to go if you want soap operas man... Haven't we paired up enough? Dont we realize that it's a stupid mistake? I can be scum with MR.person, dak, you, whoever... I can be town as opposed to any of you and I can be town with ANY of you. The end.
Go for people because of themselves. Once you get a flip. THEN start analyzing connections. NOT before.
Also, Alex, I've played games with you before, but this is the first one in recent memory where you've resorted to insults, dismissals, flagrant sarcasm, and generally being offensive. You can claim this is all to stir reactions out of people, but when it comes to drastic changes in your personality, excuses only go so far.Did you ever feel that you should'nt have signed up for a game? This is what I felt... So I've been cranky at the beginning because b12 mafia's are always the same. Flawed and with unreplaced lurkers... Look at boksi and Archangel, for god's sake. They just wont play.
Later... I resigned to my fate and dropped it and decided that I might as well be civil... But that last post was mostly in jest, I had a lot of fun writing it and that's my main goal... Me calling on webadict's issues was a response for his shuting me up for no reason and he seems to have taken it as it was meant. The fact that people did exactly what I said (wich was ignoring everything and going for the proof) makes me realize that maybe I wasn't playing here for a reason. We depend on broken setups. We have always done. That is why we need so many PRs around here.
I have a lot of stuff to do this weekend so I don't know if I'll be able to do an analysys of the game's players.
Anyway... unvote, vote meph...
play how you think it must be played... blah blah...
There's no hammer here so if we are going to have to hang out for 2 days already knowing who we are lynching nothing is going to happen.
It's pretty absurd to pretend that someone will oppose webadict when he has all the PR info... So pretending I was is the lamest thing ever. A confirmation that Meph is scum comes from the fact that he has stopped posting entirely (wich is what scum must usually do to stop giving out info)
If someone wants to scumhunt... Read all Meph's posts and see who he was trying to lynch and who he wasn't. WHo he was willing to buss if the time came.
Meph was mild. Mild is a scumtell. making too many excuses before a mislynch. Not willing to take a stand in the spotlight.
bye.
PS: Stop pairing me up with people who haven't flipped. Accuse me for what I do or dont do.
Post by: JoshuaFH on October 03, 2009, 05:05:32 pm
Quote from: Alex
Warner and sony are the places to go if you want soap operas man... Haven't we paired up enough? Dont we realize that it's a stupid mistake? I can be scum with MR.person, dak, you, whoever... I can be town as opposed to any of you and I can be town with ANY of you. The end.
Go for people because of themselves. Once you get a flip. THEN start analyzing connections. NOT before.
We have 3 flips so far Alex. All town. With you involved in all of them. How's that for 'going for someone because of themselves'?
I'm just looking at things Alex, and what I see now is you condemning my idle speculation, and then turning around and telling everyone who to focus on and how to scumhunt. You can't have it both ways Alex, do you want my opinion or not? Or do you just not want it when it involves you?
Quote from: Alex
Did you ever feel that you should'nt have signed up for a game? This is what I felt... So I've been cranky at the beginning because b12 mafia's are always the same. Flawed and with unreplaced lurkers... Look at boksi and Archangel, for god's sake. They just wont play.
Later... I resigned to my fate and dropped it and decided that I might as well be civil... But that last post was mostly in jest, I had a lot of fun writing it and that's my main goal... Me calling on webadict's issues was a response for his shuting me up for no reason and he seems to have taken it as it was meant. The fact that people did exactly what I said (wich was ignoring everything and going for the proof) makes me realize that maybe I wasn't playing here for a reason. We depend on broken setups. We have always done. That is why we need so many PRs around here.
Can you blame people for not wanting to play Alex? I'm not sure if you realize this, but you're intimidating. I know every single time I read one of your giant posts, I just want to stop playing, because you have an aura of wanting to make things not fun. I respect your experience Alex, but have a little patience. I say this because I think you could actually teach people if you stopped patronizing them for a second.
Quote from: Alex
It's pretty absurd to pretend that someone will oppose webadict when he has all the PR info... So pretending I was is the lamest thing ever.
I didn't even mention that one post Alex, I thought I was pretty clear that I was talking exclusively about d1. But hey, if I make generalizations and you interpret them in the most hostile way possible, that's just you man.
Post by: dakarian on October 03, 2009, 05:19:40 pm
Now, personally, Dak himself has been very town. Educated, well-spoken, and thorough, and I won't pull any 'too-town' fallacy, but there is a chord that struck wrong with me. That is the Alexhans scuffle, where Dak was the first to jump on, and then the first to jump off when he found some circumstantial that supposedly cleared him. Now, this is just speculation, but if there's an Dak/Alex scumteam, then Alex might have gone overboard defending himself, Dak voted him for it to avoid drawing suspicion to himself (as it's really hard to not attack Alex after his repeated d1 dismissals) and a bandwagon soon followed. Alex told Dak behind the scenes that things were going out of control, and Dak then jury-rigged a handy, palpable reason to unvote him and reverse the effect.
Question: will you link Person with that then?
Person's 3 paragraph post is what finally got me off of Alex. It was his reasoning of the Alex/Toony deal that caused me to think that Alexscum/Persontown can't be. Since I didn't have enough on me to accuse Person, it put enough doubt to leave Alexscum alone for the time being, especially since it was day 1. Note that it required a heavy change of tone in Person (he was going for the Jerk Person as well) as well.
Unless you're going to claim that it was dumb luck (which makes the whole thing too messy) you'd need to have Person included to provide the 'perfect post' to end the whole ordeal.
Meanwhile, was the situation truly something that a town would be unlikely to do? If not why?
If so then how does the situation then warrant more than a spotlight and a "watch this person"? What you said sounded much more sure of your idea than a normal suspicion.
Post by: JoshuaFH on October 03, 2009, 05:42:30 pm
Quote from: Dakarian
Question: will you link Person with that then?
It's a possibility, yes.
Please keep in mind though, this is speculation. Jotting down my thoughts for future reference. If I don't do it now, I'll surely forget.
Quote from: Dakarian
Meanwhile, was the situation truly something that a town would be unlikely to do? If not why?
It's something a town could definitely do, but I don't want to discount it as something negligible yet.
Quote from: Dak
If so then how does the situation then warrant more than a spotlight and a "watch this person"? What you said sounded much more sure of your idea than a normal suspicion.
I'm gradually changing my mode of thinking as the circumstances change, and I feel that a more direct approach is best here. This is because that, as you might have noticed, I've been practically ignored throughout the first half of day 1, and then only occasionally talked to on the other half. I want people to stop ignoring me, so I'll be more aggressive.
To retort, one thing I forgot to mention was that I feel you 'conveniently' forgot alot of people day 1. You'd mention those that weren't in the discussion, but normally you were more reactive than proactive. So let me ask: if you could force one person to come talk with us here, who would it be, and what would you ask them?
Post by: dakarian on October 03, 2009, 07:34:46 pm
Noted
@'something a town could do'
I'd put it as a Spotlight: a reason to take notice for further information and analysis.
@your approach
The town focuses on two things: people who have arguments over those who look scum, and people who look scum.
Until it was presented that your 'save' was a null tell rather than a town tell, me and probably others had marked you as a "above neutral until further notice". I know I put you to the side then so I could focus on others who showed far less.
Meanwhile, you didn't really present much of anything to the town that the town wasn't already munching on. As such, you were ignored.
The point: You were right: you DO need to be more aggressive, which makes it a good thing that you are attacking now.
@the retort
Hmm, who did I 'forget'? I spent a large amount of time attacking and was the one that caused just about all of the bandwagons in Day 1 (Person's, Archangel's, Alex's, Red's, and Panda's). I couldn't get to everyone so I used other people's debates to help prod the rest of the town. I pushed Cheeetar a good deal, That lead to me feeling good about Toony, thinking Boksi is a Useless Townie, and finding that brothernature was AWOL and needed to be replaced.
You, as said earlier, was already on the "leave alone till later" list. Web is confirmed. Meph, I'll admit, I missed, leading me to promise Web to focus on him (though that's become moot since now Web has proof enough to lynch). Zaith DID fall under the radar as well.
So...who DID I 'conveniently forget'?
As for who to come out.. well, the ones I havn't had the chance to watch/attack I guess. Meph, I wouldn't mind speaking out before the lynch finishes. You I haven't analyzed at all so I'm glad you came to let me see your technique.
That leaves Zaith. I guess the starting questions would be thusly:
@Zaith
Hey Zaith. First off, why are you bugging Toony for the lack of content when you haven't given much of yours (defending your actions doesn't count IMO since you should also be aggressive)?
Secondly, more of a comment: I'm very much waiting for what you said you'll tell us when you get back.
---
that's what I'd ask.
Post by: Alexhans on October 03, 2009, 08:22:47 pm
Quote from: josh
We have 3 flips so far Alex. All town. With you involved in all of them. How's that for 'going for someone because of themselves'?huh? I don't quite get what you mean
Quote from: josh
I'm just looking at things Alex, and what I see now is you condemning my idle speculation, and then turning around and telling everyone who to focus on and how to scumhunt. You can't have it both ways Alex, do you want my opinion or not? Or do you just not want it when it involves you?Im glad that you're active. Keep at it. Nevertheless... I'm totally entitled to mock you when you develop a theory and explain every action of the elements involved in it. It's so amusing when people pretend to guess what I would do.
Quote from: josh
Ohh... but when I DO Play and have fun you tell me I'm doing scummy stuff, etc, etc...Quote from: AlexDid you ever feel that you should'nt have signed up for a game? This is what I felt... So I've been cranky at the beginning because b12 mafia's are always the same. Flawed and with unreplaced lurkers... Look at boksi and Archangel, for god's sake. They just wont play.
Later... I resigned to my fate and dropped it and decided that I might as well be civil... But that last post was mostly in jest, I had a lot of fun writing it and that's my main goal... Me calling on webadict's issues was a response for his shuting me up for no reason and he seems to have taken it as it was meant. The fact that people did exactly what I said (wich was ignoring everything and going for the proof) makes me realize that maybe I wasn't playing here for a reason. We depend on broken setups. We have always done. That is why we need so many PRs around here.
Can you blame people for not wanting to play Alex? I'm not sure if you realize this, but you're intimidating. I know every single time I read one of your giant posts, I just want to stop playing, because you have an aura of wanting to make things not fun. I respect your experience Alex, but have a little patience. I say this because I think you could actually teach people if you stopped patronizing them for a second.
Yeah... I know I need to stop patronizing... But then comes Dakarian doing the same... And you or someone else playing the moderated guy role who behaves like a zen master and I feel the need to come out and have my say.
Quote from: josh
[/quote]Quote from: AlexIt's pretty absurd to pretend that someone will oppose webadict when he has all the PR info... So pretending I was is the lamest thing ever.
I didn't even mention that one post Alex, I thought I was pretty clear that I was talking exclusively about d1. But hey, if I make generalizations and you interpret them in the most hostile way possible, that's just you man.
That wasnt about your post. That was in general. About what cheeetar, webadict and others said when they pretended I was against the lynch.
See that? You have a prejudice about me as hostile and see me as hostile whatever I do. If I act civil I surely must have some hidden purpose... Here I would insert the :-\ smiley... but it would surely be an appeal to emotion... and it really doesn't represent me right now... IF I could do this
;D + ::) + :P that would explain my current state of mind...
I'm gonna eat now, try to finish a boring project and mail it my workgroup but I'll try to do a comprised post later about what I think of the game so far ( no judgements to playstyles, I promise) etc, etc...
Post by: Zai on October 03, 2009, 08:41:27 pm
I apologize profusely, but I think I do need a replacement. I just can't really actively take part in the game right now. I wouldn't have joined had I known I would become this sick. =/
But for future reference, dakarian, if you shorten my name, shorten it to Zai. My username is actually 3 words stuck together (as Leafsnail parodied quite well with Taitheproficient): Zai the master.
Post by: dakarian on October 03, 2009, 09:13:33 pm
Go get some rest. That's the biggest issue right now.
Post by: Alexhans on October 03, 2009, 09:15:56 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on October 03, 2009, 10:14:22 pm
Post by: Alexhans on October 03, 2009, 10:30:36 pm
Alex, it's hard to believe you're amused by our posts when earlier you had been swearing vigorously.blah blah.. scum
Post by: Cheeetar on October 03, 2009, 10:43:33 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on October 04, 2009, 06:34:50 am
Day will end in about half an hour.
Post by: Leafsnail on October 04, 2009, 07:25:12 am
Quote
Dakarian[1]: Mephansteras,It's pretty obvious what's going to happen. Mephansteras sighs, stands up, and walks into the middle of the room. "Meph..." says webadict, "You're scum. You'll die today, before you can kill any more innocent people-"
Mephansteras[8]: Webadict, Cheeetar, Chaoticjosh, Frelock, Diakron, Dakarian, Mr. Person, Toonyman, Alexhans, Zaithemaster
"I haven't killed anyone" says Mephansteras, who has an evil grin spreading across his face, "The two innocents dead yesterday... that was your fault! You and the rest of your blasted 'townies'!"
"Can I take that as a confession, Mephansteras?"
"No!" says Mephansteras, reaching slowly into a pocket of his jacket. "Take this as a confession!" He suddenly draws a knife and hurls it straight forwards. Webadict looks down, shocked, at the knife embedded in his chest, before collapsing to the floor. Mephansteras turns around to address the room.
"Yeah, I'm scum!" he shouts, "I'm an assassin! But what are you going to do about it, huh? Who wants to come lynch me!"
All of you look uneasily at each other. On the plus side, you've got scum, but on the minus side, he seems to have realised he doesn't have to wait until the night phase to start killing. However, something else is happening. A pentagram is appearing on the floor beneath Meph's feet...
"Comon!" shouts Mephansteras, "Kill me, you cowards! How the heck can a bunch of unarmed idiots take on a deadly assassin!" His strange ramblings are interrupted, however, by a booming voice from the computer.
ERROR
WEBADICT IS NOT DEAD
"What do you mean?" says Mephansteras, who is starting to look down at the floor in consternation, "I just killed him!"
WEBADICT WAS NOT LYNCHED
YOU WERE LYNCHED
"But I'm an assassin!" says Meph, "Why can't I kill? Why can't I do this thing properly?"
DATA ERROR
ERROR WILL BE RECTIFIED..
Webadict gasps as the knife dissapears from his chest, and the air comes flooding back into his lungs. After checking to see that webadict's ok, everyone looks back to Mephansteras... but it would seem he has already started to vanish.
"Damn..." says Mephansteras, "I was just a faulty program..." He seems to be disintegrating rapidly. His arms and legs are already gone... and his body is gradually being disintegrated too.
As the line of disintegration reaches his neck, Mephansteras throws back what's left of his head and laughs. "Goodbye, everyone... and goodnight!"
You aren't entirely sure what to think of all this. It would seem that the computer is interfering purely to keep the game running as it should... and that means that you'll have to go to bed tonight, even if that makes you a sitting target for the mafia. Before you go, you check Mephansteras' room. It has a huge amount of mail addressed to Dracron, so that must've been him and... wait. The mail is all marked with a stamp, a stamp saying "RETURN TO SENDER". It would seem this is the room of someone who hates being confused with Dracron... Drakonian, in fact.
Quote
You are Drakonian. The similarity of name with Dracron confuses other players. All night actions aimed for you will instead go to him, providing he's alive, and vice versa. This ability will not work if it is Dracron targetting you.
Good night, townies. Sweet dreams. Night will end when I get all the actions in, so probably in about 48 hours.
Post by: Leafsnail on October 07, 2009, 03:30:00 pm
You're fairly sure you know who Alexhans was, but you feel obliged to check out his room and see what happens to him. As soon as you arrive, you wish you hadn't. One large patch of floor is covered with barely dried blood, and the rest of the room also contains bloody streaks and smears. Nothing seems to remain of Alexhans' body however... it would seem that the assailant ate it.
His bedside table seems to have a... hammer on top. Not just any hammer, either - it looks like a super deluxe model with extra large nail remover on the back. Opening his drawers, you find... more hammers. Judging from this and the strange Japanese writing in his diary, you guess he was Alex-chan.
Quote
You are Alex-chan. You have a large and slightly worrying obsession with hammers. Once per game, during the day phase, you can activate your ability via pm. You will run up to the player who has the most votes and smash their head in with a hammer. The day cannot end until at least 24 hours after this has happened.There's nothing weird in the room - he seems to be Hotel Aligned.
By the way, this just happened by chance, but it is kind of funny, Alex-chan~!
You head over to Archangel's room. Here you find him, but his skin has turned blue... so he was an alien? No, wait, he seems to have marks on his neck - it looks like he's been strangled. On his desk, you find a page containing his thoughts on who was scum - but there are some names that have been relunctanctly crossed out, and other parts which say "DAMNIT I WAS WRONG". You remember him being assertive though... you decide he must've been Taitheproficient.
Quote
You are Taitheproficient. Once you find yourself attached to a theory, you find it difficult to shake. You get 2 votes, but you lose a vote each time you unvote (you cannot go into negative votes). You vote total is reset to 2 each night.However, from this scumhunting, you're forced to conclude that he was Hotel aligned.
This is bad. Two town deaths in one night... it seems to make up for the non events of last night. You look around at the other 9 people in the room, knowing that 3 of them are still out to kill you...
This dayphase will last roughly 5 days, due to the 3 weekday time period given.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 07, 2009, 03:35:25 pm
Post by: Alexhans on October 07, 2009, 03:39:16 pm
I know who they are!!!
Listen carefully...
The mafia are...
let me first introduce you to this new Soap called MagicClean, it's a 100 % natural and comes in various shapes and scents! Get it now from your nearest K-mart!
As I was saying... the mafia are-
ARGHHH!!!
*Alexhans has been struck down.
Be afraid, VERY afraid.
Post by: Mr.Person on October 07, 2009, 03:44:50 pm
hahahahahaa!!!
I know who they are!!!
Listen carefully...
The mafia are...
let me first introduce you to this new Soap called MagicClean, it's a 100 % natural and comes in various shapes and scents! Get it now from your nearest K-mart!
As I was saying... the mafia are-
ARGHHH!!!
*Alexhans has been struck down.
Be afraid, VERY afraid.
Hi, Billy Mays here for Mafia.
Oh wait. In any case, there's no way for me to say this without looking like scum, but do remember that Alexhans thought I was town :D
Post by: dakarian on October 07, 2009, 04:16:41 pm
Archangel was killed by the Chaoticjim PR due to the lack of posts.
Alex, meanwhile, was mafiakilled.
Web, you know who Chaotic is so I guess figuring whether that was town based, scum based, or Not Enough Info is up to you.
As for the rest.. a very quick scan:
Cheeetar keeps switching his story in Day 2 he now says that he always thought Alex was scum when he was willing to pull his vote off of Alex once pressured back in day 1 (and ended up not voting for anyone).
As such I'd like to hear about Cheeetar and how he feels about the situation so far.
Post by: Frelock on October 07, 2009, 04:33:48 pm
Oh wait. In any case, there's no way for me to say this without looking like scum, but do remember that Alexhans thought I was town :D
I remember, and it bumps you up quite a bit in my book. Of course, Alex could still be wrong...
As to dakarian's reasoning, it's possible that the Chaoticjim role killed off Archangel. However, it's also possible that Arg killed Alexhans or Archangel tonight, as his power appears to be a random action. In any case, Web knows who targeted who, or who claims to have targeted who. We'll find out the night's results when he feels good and ready to reveal them.
Dakarian, so you're saying that Cheeetar lied about his suspicions? "I've always thought you were mafia" seems to be a hyperbole, rather than a statement of fact.
Post by: Diakron on October 07, 2009, 04:39:08 pm
Unvote. Mr.Person would you kindly lynch yourself? o wait... this is not bioshock...
Post by: ToonyMan on October 07, 2009, 04:43:52 pm
ever since day one i have thought Mr. person was scum. he has had numerous scumtells and was almost day killed (alexhans refused to) but i believe he is the only target as of now.
Unvote. Mr.Person would you kindly lynch yourself? o wait... this is not bioshock...
Mr.Person is likely town, scumface.
Post by: webadict on October 07, 2009, 05:25:22 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on October 07, 2009, 05:28:16 pm
Aloha! So, what's everyone got for me?POSTHUMOUS ANGER
Post by: webadict on October 07, 2009, 05:30:57 pm
Yes yes. You can be angry about Alexhans later.Aloha! So, what's everyone got for me?POSTHUMOUS ANGER
Post by: ToonyMan on October 07, 2009, 05:31:39 pm
Aloha! So, what's everyone got for me?
What do you mean?
Post by: Mephansteras on October 07, 2009, 05:34:45 pm
Post by: webadict on October 07, 2009, 05:39:51 pm
The word Vengence appears scrawled in blood on the wallSo does the words, "Told ya."
Post by: dakarian on October 07, 2009, 07:19:19 pm
Day 1, Cheeetar was pushing for Alex's death in lock step with when I started on Alex. Once I stopped my own push for Alex and some pressure is put on Cheeetar, he switched to Person. Eventually, Alex complains about Cheeetar being passive and Cheeetar says:
Quote
I'm being too mild now? After I was pushing for a lynch of both you and Mr. Person, I've unvoted and now you're convinced I'm too mild?
Bold = mine
The phrase is odd here for a few reasons.
1. It attempts to show that he's aggressive.. alone that's not weird BUT
2. He says that he stopped voting. That part contradicts the aggression for one thing. For the other it was wrong, since he was still voting for Person at the time (he unvoted when I called him on it).
Note that he stays unvoting until the end of the day. As such, he didn't unvote the two because someone else looked worse, nor did he unvote to bandwagon. Since he went into Day 2 charging headlong into Alex-as-scum he couldn't feel that Alex was ok.
Another thing that bugs me.. he pushed hard for Alex because Alex wouldn't hammer Person. He pushed hard for Person because he felt he was scum. HOWEVER, when asked who was scum if Person flipped town Cheeetar chose me.
The reason? Because I pushed for Person.
When asked why I would be scum for that when he was pushing for Person long after I stopped, he said "Because I KNOW I'm town".
All of that just sits funny with me.
Post by: dakarian on October 07, 2009, 07:26:35 pm
He says he always thought of Alex as scum, but his voting late into Day 1 doesn't follow that. When pressured, he pulls his vote to the point of just not voting for anyone.
Also, the alex vote started after my vote went in, and ended soon after my vote left him.
The Alex attacks only started up again in Day 2 once everyone stopped looking at him again. He went so far as to say:
Quote
Also: Alexhans, mind day-killing Meph? Of course you do, because you're scummity scum scum just like I said all along.
Even though Alex had used up his day kill already.
Post by: webadict on October 07, 2009, 07:38:43 pm
No, dakarian. You're trying to pull everything out from nowhere, aren't you? I'm pretty sure I'd know if someone were scum, and I'm just not feeling Cheeetar being scum. Although, I must admit, he is very scummy in demeanor. It's a curse, isn't it? I'm pretty if Cheeetar were scum, I'd be dead right now. Or someone else besides Alexhans. However, what's being played right now is the "List Game." I've made a giant list of people to be scum and two of them have died being town. That's fine. I figured that would happen. However, it's a game the scum pay to make me rethink myself. Nope. Not gonna happen. That just means I kill EVERYONE on the list. Because in all likelihood, the rest are scum.
So, what do you say to that?
Post by: Cheeetar on October 07, 2009, 07:50:22 pm
The reasoning:
Day 1, Cheeetar was pushing for Alex's death in lock step with when I started on Alex. Once I stopped my own push for Alex and some pressure is put on Cheeetar, he switched to Person. Eventually, Alex complains about Cheeetar being passive and Cheeetar says:QuoteI'm being too mild now? After I was pushing for a lynch of both you and Mr. Person, I've unvoted and now you're convinced I'm too mild?
Bold = mine
The phrase is odd here for a few reasons.
1. It attempts to show that he's aggressive.. alone that's not weird BUT
2. He says that he stopped voting. That part contradicts the aggression for one thing. For the other it was wrong, since he was still voting for Person at the time (he unvoted when I called him on it).
Note that he stays unvoting until the end of the day. As such, he didn't unvote the two because someone else looked worse, nor did he unvote to bandwagon. Since he went into Day 2 charging headlong into Alex-as-scum he couldn't feel that Alex was ok.
Another thing that bugs me.. he pushed hard for Alex because Alex wouldn't hammer Person. He pushed hard for Person because he felt he was scum. HOWEVER, when asked who was scum if Person flipped town Cheeetar chose me.
The reason? Because I pushed for Person.
When asked why I would be scum for that when he was pushing for Person long after I stopped, he said "Because I KNOW I'm town".
All of that just sits funny with me.
I was voting for him, being agressive, but lots of people told me to unvote. As I was pretty sure I could not get Alexhans lynched at that time, I unvoted. If I pushed for his lynch then, I would just be lynched, and I would lose my opportunity to play this game and get some scum. So, I waited until I could lynch Alexhans later, and focused on the rest of the game (although I did not make much progress).
I've explained the last point very clearly. I know I am not town, but I know I just lynched a town by accident. I reason that I am dumb. Not everybody else is dumb. So, some of the people pushing for the lynch would be mafia, right? Because mafia want town dead. So, the person pushing for Mr. Persons lynch, Dakarian, would probably be mafia because he was pushing for a towns lynch.
Also: I was certain that Alex was scum. I find it very strange that he isn't.
Post by: Cheeetar on October 07, 2009, 07:51:21 pm
Post by: dakarian on October 07, 2009, 08:03:52 pm
As for your theory on me, I'll give this idea to you: Are you SURE chaoticjosh is scum.. I mean SURE.
You know what I'll claim.. I claim town of course. However, if I die town you'll probably still aim for josh. That's where the problem begins. There's 7 town and 3 scum right now. If two mislynches occur, it'll be 7-2-2=3 town/ 3 scum.. game over.
There's the problem. If you KNOW that josh is scum, I'll let you lynch me to finish off josh. If you aren't sure then I don't want a town to die with me just because of a list that the mafia can easily manipulate.
So I place it to you. If you HONESTLY believe Josh is scum.. large enough to risk the entire game over, then go ahead and off me. If you have ANY doubt to him then I beg you to at least give us time to find the other three mafia beforehand.
Post by: JoshuaFH on October 07, 2009, 08:06:24 pm
Mr.Person is also more likely town, since it's now revealed that Alex didn't have an ulterior motive in protecting him. Does not clear him completely though, as the very real chance of Alex being wrong is still there.
Talking about that though... ToonyMan.
ToonyMan, your contributions have dropped considerably. While we're pretty used to your fluffy zaniness, you posted only once last day, and have yet to contribute much today, despite posting 3 times.
I'm in a bit of a hurry, so I'll talk other people's posts in a while.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 07, 2009, 08:08:11 pm
Dakarian. I ain't afraid of no scare tactic.
FAKE-EDIT:
I don't know about Dakarian Webadict, despite my pressuring of him yesterday, I still get plenty of town tells from him. I'm assured even more of his towniness with Alex's flip, as his spontaneous, thought-out defense of him day 1 seems more justified. While I'm pretty sure this is my first game with him, I think a scum Dakarian wouldn't have jumped in to prevent a town Alex from lynching himself, and instead would have just let things take their course.
Mr.Person is also more likely town, since it's now revealed that Alex didn't have an ulterior motive in protecting him. Does not clear him completely though, as the very real chance of Alex being wrong is still there.
Talking about that though... ToonyMan.
ToonyMan, your contributions have dropped considerably. While we're pretty used to your fluffy zaniness, you posted only once last day, and have yet to contribute much today, despite posting 3 times.
I'm in a bit of a hurry, so I'll talk other people's posts in a while.
I'M CONTRIBUTING RIGHT NOW.
This is the three last scum,
Sir Josh
Dakarian
Cheeetar
Post by: Cheeetar on October 07, 2009, 08:09:59 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on October 07, 2009, 08:11:43 pm
Post by: dakarian on October 07, 2009, 08:13:16 pm
I was voting for him, being agressive, but lots of people told me to unvote.
Proof or it didn't happen. All I saw was Alex attacking you and me wondering why you dodged the question.
Quote
As I was pretty sure I could not get Alexhans lynched at that time, I unvoted. If I pushed for his lynch then, I would just be lynched, and I would lose my opportunity to play this game and get some scum. So, I waited until I could lynch Alexhans later, and focused on the rest of the game (although I did not make much progress).
Funny.. I heard the "I didn't want to do it but I was pressured to. They would've lynched me otherwise."
That person turned out to be mafia.
You didn't try to stop the bandwagon (I stopped a good number of them in Day 1.. I wasn't attacked for it). You didn't try to defend the accused if you felt they were town. You didn't question/accuse that person or join to finish the lynch. You felt in your heart that someone was scum..
And you let the person you truly TRULY felt was scum just to save your own hide? Even though dying would've put some credit to your words and help push someone MANY PEOPLE wanted dead to the lynch to follow you?
Quote
I've explained the last point very clearly. I know I am not town
:P
Quote
, but I know I just lynched a town by accident. I reason that I am dumb. Not everybody else is dumb. So, some of the people pushing for the lynch would be mafia, right? Because mafia want town dead. So, the person pushing for Mr. Persons lynch, Dakarian, would probably be mafia because he was pushing for a towns lynch.
Web's list had two now-confirmed townies in it. What is he, dumb or mafia?
Post by: dakarian on October 07, 2009, 08:18:26 pm
My 'scare tactic' was ONLY for web who seems deadset towards finishing his list. That means Josh dies after me no matter my flip.
If his only reasoning is to continue the list no matter what, then we are gambling on if josh and me are town. If we both are, the game ends.
I've learned my lesson from Beginner 1. Gambles set to multiple days are far too dangerous. It's pro-town to follow through with them, but..well. As said before, I just about cost everyone the game with mine.
As for YOUR accusation of me, I ask you, what makes me scummy? I'd like to face and defend against my accusations. It also means I have time to scumhunt more.
Post by: Cheeetar on October 07, 2009, 08:20:32 pm
Post by: dakarian on October 07, 2009, 08:26:05 pm
A good few people, including Web and Toony, was ready to kill him after web removed his proven scum. If Person had evidence showing he was scum it would reignite my own suspicions over Alex. Alex was never lynched because Alex was nightkilled, simply put.
Meanwhile, you dodged an issue: you claimed that people pushed you to unvote. WHO.. what posts? Show me because I missed it.
Post by: Cheeetar on October 07, 2009, 08:56:56 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: webadict on October 07, 2009, 08:59:03 pm
What you say on Cheeetar makes sense, though he has 3 other people to temper his wish to kill web. I'd like to hear more from him before I leave him alone. There's also one more factor: One of the PRs is effectively a Doctor (if they target someone about to die, they cause the killer to investigate instead). As such, it makes sense for that person to watch you like a hawk. Scum would be MAD to try to target you.While what you say makes sense except... I don't need a Doctor. The fact that I'm likely to be protected by a Doctor is, in itself, protection. Come on. You don't know what I know. Only scum would be worried about the Doctor.
As for your theory on me, I'll give this idea to you: Are you SURE chaoticjosh is scum.. I mean SURE.
You know what I'll claim.. I claim town of course. However, if I die town you'll probably still aim for josh. That's where the problem begins. There's 7 town and 3 scum right now. If two mislynches occur, it'll be 7-2-2=3 town/ 3 scum.. game over.
There's the problem. If you KNOW that josh is scum, I'll let you lynch me to finish off josh. If you aren't sure then I don't want a town to die with me just because of a list that the mafia can easily manipulate.
So I place it to you. If you HONESTLY believe Josh is scum.. large enough to risk the entire game over, then go ahead and off me. If you have ANY doubt to him then I beg you to at least give us time to find the other three mafia beforehand.
And no, I'm NOT sure about chaoticjosh. I'm only sure about now. My opinion can switch about him. However, I'm pretty sure Diakron is scum as well. But one at a time.
You're not SAYING you're town. That's a scum tell. You're simply "implying" you're town. Most town say I'm town. You say, "If you lynch me, you'll lynch a town." You never directly say it. Except with that whole claim town of course. You just don't seem the same right now. Ya know?
Some of this is not directed at me, but is people unvoting and generally saying that they no longer fully believe Alexhans is scum. I edited out most portions, but if you want the full post just click the link in the 'Quote from' section.Yes. I made you.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: dakarian on October 07, 2009, 09:39:24 pm
But you said "I'm killing you because the scum want me to stop killing off of this list." What am I supposed to say, "Don't kill me, I'm town"? I know I wouldn't stand by that.
I focused on Josh because I don't want two quicklynches to end the game. If Josh was scum then I'm willing to die to kill him. I was slightly hoping you had some strong proof on Josh that you were still hiding. It sounds like you aren't.
"I am town". I said it. I AM town. However, only a fool would accept that: I know I wouldn't.
What I would RATHER do is actually hear your reasons. WHY am I scum? What have I done that you are questioning now? Give me those reasons and I'll say more than empty words like 'I am town." I will PROVE I'm town. Don't just use my words now. You put me on that list long before Day 3. You have reasons to want me dead. I want them!
If you don't want to say them, or can't say them and keep voting, then there's nothing for me to say. Instead, I'll just focus on the others and help the town find the rest of the scum so long as I'm still alive.
Btw, about the 'doctor' comment, you used the idea that others, like Cheeetar, would've tried to kill you while I wouldn't. I said a good reason why a team of 3 mafia with someone like Cheeetar would still not kill you: they fear the doctor. I'm not the only one that would avoid that. That's why I brought him up. Now, why would someone like me as town NOT mention him when going into "why Webaddict isn't dead" theories?
Post by: dakarian on October 07, 2009, 09:51:19 pm
I remember Web's oversized post. Hated it too since it was a "do what I say because I say it" post. I swear, I would be able to follow him more if he simply explained himself.
I still don't like the defensive attitude, though. If you believe someone is scum, then push them. If you don't think you can convince the town, then start hunting for evidence from them.. keep prodding, questioning. Find your evidence so that you can go right out and say "HE IS SCUM AND HERE IS WHY!". Once you have it, you can start convincing the town why you're right.
Trying to protect yourself by avoiding suspicion, though, backfires on you and causes MORE suspicion. That's why it's better to attack then defend.
Btw, when prodding/questioning or even after your "HE IS SCUM EVERYONE!" post, be ready to READ the counter arguments. If they kill your argument and you have no other evidence, then pull back and consider "what if he is town?" Follow your gut: if it still says "he's scum" then don't let anyone stop you from pushing/prodding/questioning/hunting your target. Just know that you need something more when you want to say "LYNCH EM!"
Now, for the last bit.. why is it that you assume that 'experienced' players can't make mistakes while town like you do? This is in reference to the "If person is town then Dakarian is scum" comment.
@Josh
Speaking of gut: I don't have a read on you, but I always feel awkward when someone is ready to defend me, especially after wishing me dead earlier (back when no one was after me). FOS Josh. It's time you finally got into the spotlight.
Post by: JoshuaFH on October 07, 2009, 10:05:35 pm
Scum talk is scummy.
Dakarian. I ain't afraid of no scare tactic.
FAKE-EDIT:I don't know about Dakarian Webadict, despite my pressuring of him yesterday, I still get plenty of town tells from him. I'm assured even more of his towniness with Alex's flip, as his spontaneous, thought-out defense of him day 1 seems more justified. While I'm pretty sure this is my first game with him, I think a scum Dakarian wouldn't have jumped in to prevent a town Alex from lynching himself, and instead would have just let things take their course.
Mr.Person is also more likely town, since it's now revealed that Alex didn't have an ulterior motive in protecting him. Does not clear him completely though, as the very real chance of Alex being wrong is still there.
Talking about that though... ToonyMan.
ToonyMan, your contributions have dropped considerably. While we're pretty used to your fluffy zaniness, you posted only once last day, and have yet to contribute much today, despite posting 3 times.
I'm in a bit of a hurry, so I'll talk other people's posts in a while.
I'M CONTRIBUTING RIGHT NOW.
This is the three last scum,
Sir Josh
Dakarian
Cheeetar
Once again Toon, I know it's your style, but do you care to explain your choices to us?
More importantly, I have a stray feeling that you just want to follow WA around unquestionably. Stick as close to the confirmed townie as you can and be seen as town yourself perhaps?
Quote from: Dakarian
@Josh
Speaking of gut: I don't have a read on you, but I always feel awkward when someone is ready to defend me, especially after wishing me dead earlier (back when no one was after me). FOS Josh. It's time you finally got into the spotlight.
I was after you because no one was after you. There was the occasional person saying they were suspicious of you, but no one really attacking you. I wanted to see if you'd overreact or underreact, but you remained cool as a cucumber, which really reaffirmed my previous belief in your towniness. I was going to say that yesterday, but Leaf up and ended the day unexpectedly, and my train of thought got lost between then and now.
@Webadict
I'm not quite sure what your logic is WA. Do you just want us to trust you, and not even try? I just want to ask, to get it out of the way.
Post by: Zai on October 07, 2009, 10:59:15 pm
ever since day one i have thought Mr. person was scum. he has had numerous scumtells and was almost day killed (alexhans refused to) but i believe he is the only target as of now.
Unvote. Mr.Person would you kindly lynch yourself? o wait... this is not bioshock...
What exactly were these scumtells, Diakron? What reasons are there that make him the "only target"? Don't just continue using vague generalities, give some specifics here. And if you were so sure M.P was scum, why did you vote Frelock immediately after Day 2 started, and for a completely invalid reason at that? It's like you took Meph's (proven to be scum) vote-list at face value, and didn't really try to scumhunt. You just went with the easiest guy to go after, even though you were allegedly so certain M.P is scum. You didn't even bother checking why Frelock hadn't voted.
And, probably irrelevant, but the "would you kindly lynch yourself?" bit sounded to me like an emulation of Cheeetar or TM.
Post by: Diakron on October 07, 2009, 11:01:59 pm
ever since day one i have thought Mr. person was scum. he has had numerous scumtells and was almost day killed (alexhans refused to) but i believe he is the only target as of now.
Unvote. Mr.Person would you kindly lynch yourself? o wait... this is not bioshock...
What exactly were these scumtells, Diakron? What reasons are there that make him the "only target"? Don't just continue using vague generalities, give some specifics here. And if you were so sure M.P was scum, why did you vote Frelock immediately after Day 2 started, and for a completely invalid reason at that? It's like you took Meph's (proven to be scum) vote-list at face value, and didn't really try to scumhunt. You just went with the easiest guy to go after, even though you were allegedly so certain M.P is scum. You didn't even bother checking why Frelock hadn't voted.
And, probably irrelevant, but the "would you kindly lynch yourself?" bit sounded to me like an emulation of Cheeetar or TM.
do like any normal person and go reread day 1 take 2. i am reverting to that as all the people i wanted to vote have cleared themselves in my eyes.
Post by: dakarian on October 07, 2009, 11:10:21 pm
Having the person try to discover your own motive won't do. It's easy for us to come up with a reason that fits your actions back then.
Instead YOU should have, on hand, your reasons for still wanting to lynch someone.
So, if your reasons now are the same as Day 1... what WERE your reasons then.. in your own words.
And yes, we'll need the specific scumtells. At least give the idea on where they are located: specific enough so that we can find it without reading through the whole day.
Post by: webadict on October 07, 2009, 11:27:15 pm
You aren't giving me much to work with, web, as far as defense goes. If there was any "you are scum because..." I could debate or argue or explain my reasoning.Cheeetar isn't scum. I'm 99.9% sure. And that's pretty sure. I'm sure he could easily follow me as CT. If Cheeetar wanted to kill me, he'd have a pretty terrible reason to do so. Anyhow, you're scum because I feel like you are.
But you said "I'm killing you because the scum want me to stop killing off of this list." What am I supposed to say, "Don't kill me, I'm town"? I know I wouldn't stand by that.
I focused on Josh because I don't want two quicklynches to end the game. If Josh was scum then I'm willing to die to kill him. I was slightly hoping you had some strong proof on Josh that you were still hiding. It sounds like you aren't.
"I am town". I said it. I AM town. However, only a fool would accept that: I know I wouldn't.
What I would RATHER do is actually hear your reasons. WHY am I scum? What have I done that you are questioning now? Give me those reasons and I'll say more than empty words like 'I am town." I will PROVE I'm town. Don't just use my words now. You put me on that list long before Day 3. You have reasons to want me dead. I want them!
If you don't want to say them, or can't say them and keep voting, then there's nothing for me to say. Instead, I'll just focus on the others and help the town find the rest of the scum so long as I'm still alive.
Btw, about the 'doctor' comment, you used the idea that others, like Cheeetar, would've tried to kill you while I wouldn't. I said a good reason why a team of 3 mafia with someone like Cheeetar would still not kill you: they fear the doctor. I'm not the only one that would avoid that. That's why I brought him up. Now, why would someone like me as town NOT mention him when going into "why Webaddict isn't dead" theories?
Basically, the same reason why I thought Mephansteras was scum. Am I supposed to think that I can explain something like that? I'd like to think of it as a sixth sense. I can tell fakes. You seem fake. I could list millions of reasons why, but it wouldn't matter, would it? I listed several for Mephansteras. Did those matter? No. Not at all. Because I'm a moron or something. So no one believed me.
I'll ask you the same thing I asked Meph. Why are you town?
Post by: Cheeetar on October 07, 2009, 11:30:22 pm
@Cheeetar
I remember Web's oversized post. Hated it too since it was a "do what I say because I say it" post. I swear, I would be able to follow him more if he simply explained himself.
I still don't like the defensive attitude, though. If you believe someone is scum, then push them. If you don't think you can convince the town, then start hunting for evidence from them.. keep prodding, questioning. Find your evidence so that you can go right out and say "HE IS SCUM AND HERE IS WHY!". Once you have it, you can start convincing the town why you're right.
Trying to protect yourself by avoiding suspicion, though, backfires on you and causes MORE suspicion. That's why it's better to attack then defend.
Btw, when prodding/questioning or even after your "HE IS SCUM EVERYONE!" post, be ready to READ the counter arguments. If they kill your argument and you have no other evidence, then pull back and consider "what if he is town?" Follow your gut: if it still says "he's scum" then don't let anyone stop you from pushing/prodding/questioning/hunting your target. Just know that you need something more when you want to say "LYNCH EM!"
Now, for the last bit.. why is it that you assume that 'experienced' players can't make mistakes while town like you do? This is in reference to the "If person is town then Dakarian is scum" comment.
Most of that isn't anything I can reply to, but for the final bit: I don't like assuming they just made a mistake, and let them past. From the mafia games I have played lots of people have tried to pass off scum actions as 'mistakes', more so than people have made genuine mistakes.
Post by: Cheeetar on October 07, 2009, 11:31:17 pm
Post by: dakarian on October 08, 2009, 12:16:59 am
Most of that was more advice than accusation. I'm just big on explaining things.
Although Web is wrong about me, I don't have too much more to put against you. Disliking how Day 1 was handled isn't the same as believing you were scummy for it. Unvote
No, the vote you did on me doesn't change that.
@Web
Thought so. You're running off your gut. You also seem pissed over Day 1. Silly that, since it's good for the town to scumhunt rather than bandwagon. I can't help the fact that the town decided to follow my lead over and over. All I could do is hunt the best way I know how.
Very well. You ask me "How I am town." Very messy question, but I'll answer anyway.
I don't follow bandwagons, nor ever ask the town to follow me blindly. When Josh made his offer to reset, I didn't deny him or jump with him: I saw where the town could turn a semi-risk into a near-sure bet by asking for confirmation. That way, the only way for Josh to lie is to have a second scum with his 'known PR' cover for him. I didn't like the idea of trading a scum for a Beloved Princess, especially since it would destroy the chance of a good Day 1 discussion, give the mafia 2 free kills, leave you dead, and possibly lead to another kill from the Chaotic role (since all of us would have <2 posts in Day 2.. since NO posts would have occurred). Trading 2 scum wouldn't be so bad though.
Of course, chances are, it would just lead to someone confirming and us using the reset, as is what happened.
After that, I scumhunted. I've proven that I don't tunnel vision, nor do I just accept other's arguments. I listen to them, argue with them, prod them, until I get good or bad answers. If I want to kill, I don't DEMAND the town to kill, but instead ask them to take notice. I don't ask for a 'counterargument' to go "OMG YOU DEFEND SCUM!" I WANT those counterarguments so that I can make sure "I" am sound in my reasoning. I could've easily kept pushing on Alex: you were being rude, Alex was being a jerk, and many MANY wanted him dead. It wouldn't take much just to go Tunnel Vision and pass around Person's post and your outcries to finish the kill. I mean, JEESH, YOU got sick of him enough to put him on the Kill list.
But I didn't. I listened to Person's argument and shut down that bandwagon. I never fully confirmed him town, but I did pull away.
Btw, I asked you about your "don't kill him" since you didn't say whether that was towards Meph or Panda. The day ended before you replied, though.
Fact is, I've shown myself as town time and again, from acting in the town's best interests to taking risks that would hurt my credibility or even kill me. I avoided mindless following and explained my actions every step of the way. THAT is why the town followed me Day 1 and not you. For every explanation post you gave, you had 2 or 3 that browbeat the town or pushed it towards mindless following.
You claim you could come up with a million reasons. I doubt that. I bet if that gut was removed, THESE would be your reasons:
1. You swear the mafia is trying to stop you from following the list:
(which sounds odd since it means the Chaotic role (or Arg if his 'random' did the kill) is scum or else the mafia were VERY lucky. It also brings out the "What if the Mafia WANTS you to follow that list" WIFOM. It also grows weak since you're willing to kill me for being on the list but NOT josh, meaning you AREN'T just following the list, contrary to what you said when you first posted.)
2. I've lead the town towards multiple town deaths.
(Which, like I point out to Cheeetar, is Pot-kettle-black since much of your list had Townies as well. Bad reasoning to assume that someone can't possibly have the same idea you do)
3. I'm hard to read as town since there's too many town-tells. That reeks of the "Too Town" argument.
The best argument given so far is that I didn't "directly say I was town" and that I mentioned the Doctor before others have. The strongest force the town has is that Web is after me. The strongest forces you have, Web, is that the gut that found Vector in BM1 and Meph here points to me.
I'll end it all with this. If your gut still streams "Scum" then go and vote, but DON'T shorten the day. If I only have a few RL days to work with then I'm going to go scumhunting. If I live the day, I'll find a proper scum to kill. If I die, I'll make sure to provide enough for you to find the proper scum tomorrow.
If you have any other questions or issues, I'll gladly answer, but if that's all then don't mind me when I turn to other matters.
Post by: dakarian on October 08, 2009, 12:25:42 am
@Diakron
I'll be waiting for that answer from you about Person
@Josh
Considering you know Toony, what about him is exactly NOT Toony-town?
Note I don't say 'Normal town'. We all know Toony-town doesn't act like how we want him to act. We don't have time to hunt folks we don't like. What makes him SCUM rather than his normal self?
Furthermore, is Toony your only target? Any idea on who the other two are?
@Mod
Boksi probably needs a replacement by now, or at least a prod. Person needs a prod as well.
Post by: Mr.Person on October 08, 2009, 12:49:11 am
Post by: Archangel on October 08, 2009, 01:18:55 am
Post by: Boksi on October 08, 2009, 10:50:43 am
Alright, I figure I should at least try to contribute.
So I made a 1-5 scale of suspicion:
ToonyMan: He's a loon, and while he seems sincere I really can't tell, so 3.
chaoticjosh: My gut reads him as a little bit townier than most townies, which translates to "might be a good actor", especially since he didn't actually flip when he go lynched, but I'm not certain enough to go anywhere with hit, so 3.
Zaithemaster: He hasn't been feeling well, apparently, but his posts... They seem pretty pointless, the few of them he's made recently. Diakron is an obvious target, so Zai might be trying to quickly start a bandwagon and then retreat into the shadows. Until proven otherwise, he's a 4 in my book. If you can respond, Zai, that number is still quite malleable, because I'm in no way certain. If I can get more info I can be more sure.
Diakron: His lack of capitalization and general attitude may make him look scummier than he is, but even taking that into account his behavior is either incredibly foolish or scummy. I rate him 4.
Mr.Person: Abrasive and a bit passive-agressive, but I'm chalking that up to his personality than scumminess. I think he's most likely town, so he's a mere 2.
Cheeetar: He's trying to convince people he's town, but it kinda falls flat on its face on me because he's overdoing it a bit. It might be he's a townie who's gotten flustered and acting rashly, but I'm pegging him as a 3 with a chance of raising it.
dakarian: I'm not going to post a large argument for or against him because he already did. He's not a confirmed townie and so he's not completely off the hook, but he's swayed me and so he's a mere 1.
webadict: Being a confirmed townie does not grant you permission to act like a douchebag lording over everyone else.
Frelock: I honestly don't know. I'm a little short on time and he doesn't seem to be posting much, so I'm putting him at a 3 by default.
I'm going to mull over things for a while before voting though. See how things progress.
Post by: dakarian on October 08, 2009, 11:10:27 am
Judging off what you wrote so far, almost everyone is a 'neutral' while Zaithe and Diakron are the most scumminess to you.
Sidenote: Frelock was replaced by Nihilist. You said you didn't have much time when you got to him so, when you do get to him, keep it in mind.
To be true though, your argument for Zaithe seems based around Daikron's towniness. I imagine the reverse would then be true? I guess it'll be made clear once you finish your analysis and place your vote.
Post by: JoshuaFH on October 08, 2009, 11:15:26 am
@Josh
Considering you know Toony, what about him is exactly NOT Toony-town?
Note I don't say 'Normal town'. We all know Toony-town doesn't act like how we want him to act. We don't have time to hunt folks we don't like. What makes him SCUM rather than his normal self?
Furthermore, is Toony your only target? Any idea on who the other two are?
I wouldn't say I KNOW Toon, as I've really only played a handful of games with him, but if I had to say it, it'd be because scum toon reacts badly to tension. Not pressure, but tension. By that I mean the more 'serious' the day is, he gradually gets quieter and contributes less, opting to go with safer bets.
As for who else might be scum? I'm thinking:
Diakron (For generally being suspicious and not making sense)
Cheeetar (For reasons being made apparent by Dakarian)
Boksi (For lurking up until now)
Frelock (Replaced Brothernature, then is replaced himself by Nihilist? I think that's the first time that's ever happened in mafia. Not quite sure what to say.)
WA said that Cheeetar is very likely town, so I'm willing to mark up his awkward defenses as general awkwardness if WA can assure me there's solid evidence for his claim.
@Boksi
I'm glad you could join us.
Quote from: Boksi
I'm going to mull over things for a while before voting though. See how things progress.
I hope you can stay with us more consistently from now on.
Post by: dakarian on October 08, 2009, 11:21:05 am
I've already posted today you silly bear.I'm just lurkingI'm just waiting so I won't post at 1 in the morning and say something stupid again. In the meantime, I think Dakarian is town (He's been super helpful) and I think Zaithemaster is unhelpful but probably town, and I'm going to think heavily about Cheeetar. He could go either way, depending on what he says.
Only post you made so far was a joke combined with a "Oh wait. In any case, there's no way for me to say this without looking like scum, but do remember that Alexhans thought I was town."
WIFOM+self defense= Very Ugly Post
Now the only person you're looking at is Cheeetar? And you're waiting for him to speak.. about what? He's already answered my questions. He's already written a bunch. If you're still bothered about something, how about asking him a question?
If you have no questions, then who ARE you after? After 3 days, SOMEONE must look bad enough to warrant aggression from you.
Post by: Leafsnail on October 08, 2009, 11:29:18 am
Quote
Mr.Person - Diakron
dakarian - webadict, ToonyMan, Cheeetar
ToonyMan - chaoticjosh
Diakron - ZaithemasterVengence - Mephansteras
The phantom whiteboard slowly disappears.
Oh, and just to say, noone other than Brothernature has been replaced, since Zai has pm'd me to say he feels better.
Post by: dakarian on October 08, 2009, 12:32:55 pm
I think I see your plan now.
Well, I'm looking through Meph's posts (a little tricky to use the 'last posts' section since he hosts two games) to see if I can find a link anywhere. It's a little messy since he kept himself back but I did notice something.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
To sum up what's in the spoilers:
Meph started off on Boksi early, and would reference him occasionally while no one was looking at him.
However, once pressure started building for Boksi and his postings proved to be ugly to some, he jumped and went for brothernature instead.
Once the WOT madness ended and it was clear that Alex/Person weren't going to die, he came back to join in against Redwarrior insisting that he'll go after boksi later no matter Red's flip.
Afterwards, Boksi is left off the hook.
Now that you're back, Boksi, any thoughts on this matter?
Post by: Mr.Person on October 08, 2009, 01:01:13 pm
Zaithemaster: He hasn't been feeling well, apparently, but his posts... They seem pretty pointless, the few of them he's made recently. Diakron is an obvious target, so Zai might be trying to quickly start a bandwagon and then retreat into the shadows. Until proven otherwise, he's a 4 in my book. If you can respond, Zai, that number is still quite malleable, because I'm in no way certain. If I can get more info I can be more sure.
Diakron: His lack of capitalization and general attitude may make him look scummier than he is, but even taking that into account his behavior is either incredibly foolish or scummy. I rate him 4.
Oh ho ho, you can't do this. Well, you can, but it's scummy. You can't say Zai is suspicious for suspecting Diakron when you yourself suspect Diakron. Also, you're being ridiculously mild, you can't say EVERYBODY is scum, somebody has to be scum.
Mod: Can I get a list of who's replaced who? It's kind of confusing.
Post by: dakarian on October 08, 2009, 01:16:26 pm
@Mod
I want a list of who's currently alive, and a Prod for Frelock if he's still in the game.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 08, 2009, 01:47:37 pm
You keep throwing up words for me to read, so I scanned through them all a bit. You are accusing me of getting to close to Webadict and trusting his words? This is simply not true, I went against him early when he said Alexhans (or Mr.Person I don't remember) was Town. Turns out he was Town. He told me to hit myself with a lead pipe (I did not). I agree with him this time, because it is TRUE.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
@Sir Josh:
@Josh
Considering you know Toony, what about him is exactly NOT Toony-town?
Note I don't say 'Normal town'. We all know Toony-town doesn't act like how we want him to act. We don't have time to hunt folks we don't like. What makes him SCUM rather than his normal self?
Furthermore, is Toony your only target? Any idea on who the other two are?
I wouldn't say I KNOW Toon, as I've really only played a handful of games with him, but if I had to say it, it'd be because scum toon reacts badly to tension. Not pressure, but tension. By that I mean the more 'serious' the day is, he gradually gets quieter and contributes less, opting to go with safer bets.
As for who else might be scum? I'm thinking:
Diakron (For generally being suspicious and not making sense)
Cheeetar (For reasons being made apparent by Dakarian)
Boksi (For lurking up until now)
Frelock (Replaced Brothernature, then is replaced himself by Nihilist? I think that's the first time that's ever happened in mafia. Not quite sure what to say.)
WA said that Cheeetar is very likely town, so I'm willing to mark up his awkward defenses as general awkwardness if WA can assure me there's solid evidence for his claim.
@Boksi
I'm glad you could join us.Quote from: BoksiI'm going to mull over things for a while before voting though. See how things progress.
I hope you can stay with us more consistently from now on.
This is true, I do not like tension. However! This does not mean I do not have Town as best interest in my heart. I want to help Town for once! I usually live to end-game anyway...at least now. I AM TOWN. I don't like tension either way.
Post by: Leafsnail on October 08, 2009, 01:53:52 pm
Post by: dakarian on October 08, 2009, 02:24:36 pm
@Dakarian:
You keep throwing up words for me to read, so I scanned through them all a bit. You are accusing me of getting to close to Webadict and trusting his words? This is simply not true, I went against him early when he said Alexhans (or Mr.Person I don't remember) was Town. Turns out he was Town. He told me to hit myself with a lead pipe (I did not). I agree with him this time, because it is TRUE.
Toony.. what?
I wrote ONE post to you this day. The ONLY thing I spoke about you was that I wanted your reason for thinking me scum. I didn't link you and web. On the contrary, I wrote that you had DIFFERENT ideas from web (who, at the time, was just wanting to finish his list).
Everything I wrote was to other people based on THEIR posts and THEIR beliefs.
I don't tend to think of you as misreading people's posts. Tunnel yes but misread.. no. Is something wrong?
Quote
Dakarian, this post doesn't say anything! You just went over what a good townie should do. I still believe you to be scum, remember when Pandarsenic (a confirmed dead townie now) said that people like to encourage me into lynching wrong people? (that being Alexhans who was nightkilled). You knew Alexhans was Town, you knew that and you said I was doing a good job and should continue!Quote
Thanks for the compliment. I didn't write 'what a good townie should do'. I wrote 'what "I" have done'. To confuse one for the other suggests you believe my actions to be similar to that of a good townie.
Btw, the entire reason why I posted that was to answer Web's question. He asked "what makes me town." That's my answer. I prefer something more specific while others answer that question for themselves but I don't question dodge.
I said you were doing good to pressure Alex. Unlike others, I don't consider your posts useless. They pressure people in ways that are hard to attack. It allows for interesting exchanges like the Alex/Toony bet.
The only time I knew Alex to be town was when he died. Until then, he was doubtful but still possible. Continual pressure helps NOT just to confirm scum but to also confirm town as well. I figure enough pressure would finally end the entire Alex/Person question, perhaps even without a Person-lynch.
Notice that I'm not bashing you or hating you for attacking me. I WILL ask for reasons though because that's how I handle my defense. Of course, if you are thinking me scum because of Web's gut then, like web, I have nothing that can defend myself for it. If you have your own reasons, then we can talk more.
@Sir Josh:QuoteThis is true, I do not like tension. However! This does not mean I do not have Town as best interest in my heart. I want to help Town for once! I usually live to end-game anyway...at least now. I AM TOWN. I don't like tension either way.
Nice thing about tension, though: it causes people to crack. Even Toony Craziness can crack, exposing your true nature. Once you do crack, we'll be able to know if you're honest or not.
Post by: Leafsnail on October 08, 2009, 02:27:08 pm
Post by: Zai on October 08, 2009, 02:30:11 pm
Zaithemaster: He hasn't been feeling well, apparently, but his posts... They seem pretty pointless, the few of them he's made recently. Diakron is an obvious target, so Zai might be trying to quickly start a bandwagon and then retreat into the shadows. Until proven otherwise, he's a 4 in my book. If you can respond, Zai, that number is still quite malleable, because I'm in no way certain. If I can get more info I can be more sure.
More info on what? You hardly said anything here, aside from my last few posts (most done while sick) were pointless and I'm going after Diakron. Why is voting Diakron a bad thing? Is voting for, say, dakarian any better? Is voting for no one and not committing the "correct" thing to do in your mind? Though I suppose not voting is better if you plan on becoming inactive so that you wouldn't be able to change your vote.
I believe Diakron's acting abnormally, even for being Diakron. I'm not voting for a quick bandwagon; if I wanted one of those, I could just join the one for dakarian. People aside from myself have shown a reluctance to vote Diakron so far, so why would I try against hope to get a bandwagon on him? I vote for him because I firmly believe Diakron to be scum.
In his last few posts, Diakron mentioned that he thought M.P was scum since Day 1. Why then did he vote for Frelock, a guy just joining the game, rather than vote for M.P? He says M.P had numerous scumtells, but doesn't share any of them, instead relying on vague attacks. He also says that M.P is the "only target" right now, but once again doesn't tell us why.
I then attempted to pull some answers and reasons out of him. To this, he responds that I need to reread Day 1.5. He says he is "reverting to that" because "all the people i wanted to vote have cleared themselves in my eyes." For one thing, this answers none of my questions, and is just evading arguments. If all the people he wanted to vote for (these would be who he thought was scum if he was town) have cleared themselves, then why is he going after M.P? He says he always thought M.P was scum, so he obviously wanted to vote for him. But then, after all the people he wanted to vote for have cleared themselves, why is he still going after one of them?
The logic in his posts is half-baked and doesn't connect. He's scum. If he wants me to change my vote, he damn well better argue as to why he's town.
And yeah. I'm feeling quite a bit better. And more aggressive. Connection? Probably.
Post by: Frelock on October 08, 2009, 03:19:06 pm
I suppose I'll put up a list of my suspicions like boski. Seems like a good idea
From least to most scummy:
Webadict - Self explanatory
Toonyman - He does what he always does as town: tunnelvision, hunt down those he's even slightly suspicious of, and pursue them with a vengeance until either they crack or are cleared. Somewhat meta-gamey, to be sure, but still is a good indication.
Cheeetar - As web is a confirmed townie, if he's 99.99% sure that someone is town, I'm willing to give them a good probability of being town. I'm guessing he's been confirmed by some night-action or another that web just doesn't want to explain in public. Why should having a confirmed townie be a good thing if we can't listen to what he says?
Zai - Been sick lately, but always felt town to me before that. Also, his recent posts, while an attack on diakron, that doesn't seem to be especially scummy to me. You're right, Boski, Dai is an easy target. But he's easy because he looks scummy. I don't see anything wrong with attacking a scummy person.
Mr. Person - Alex was near-certain that he was town, but his insistence on that point knocks him down a bit.
Boski - Haven't been able to get a good read on him.
Chaoticjosh - Already mentioned his bandwaggoning, also seems to buddy up with dakarion.
Diakron - More on this when I get back from class.
Dakarion - I love it how this quote:
WIFOM+self defense= Very Ugly Postfollows this one:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
What I find interesting is that you explicitly list off a list of things which are "townie-like."(by the way, the correct answer to web's question is not a list, it's "because my role PM said so") Now, you'll probably call that the "too townie" fallacy, but I call it a question of your playstyle. Do you simply follow the list of town-tells whether you're town or scum? However, I'm personally inclined to say you're town simply on that point. You've made a lot of good posts with a lot of good content, and your reasoning is logical.
More on this when I get back from class.
Post by: dakarian on October 08, 2009, 03:51:25 pm
"by the way, the correct answer to web's question is not a list, it's "because my role PM said so""
That's not much better, honestly, and I worry if anyone will actually consider that 'pro-town' to answer that. :P
Seriously.. what are the charges that are being used to mark me scum?
Post by: ToonyMan on October 08, 2009, 04:15:16 pm
Post by: webadict on October 08, 2009, 04:28:41 pm
As for the correlation: It's a reason why I don't like that question "why are you town?" You're stuck giving WIFOMs and defense, making a fluff answer like "because I am" or question dodging. I answered for the sake of answering.Actually, Frelock is right about the answer thing. There really isn't an answer. It's more like... How you answer it. If you think some of the things you did during the game make you town, then you're probably not town. Because you either are or aren't town.
"by the way, the correct answer to web's question is not a list, it's "because my role PM said so""
That's not much better, honestly, and I worry if anyone will actually consider that 'pro-town' to answer that. :P
Seriously.. what are the charges that are being used to mark me scum?
Given that and your smiley-face thing, I'll make a HUGE LIST OF THINGS!
Ahem.
Number 1: Because there's only a limited number of people that can BE scum right now. Those being: dakarian, Diakron, Boksi, Mr.Person, chaoticjosh (95% sure). I guess I might be wrong about chaoticjosh however, since he DID make a confirmed townie. He could've avoided that and simply gone on with the game, giving the scum a better lead at the cost of himself. Probably later. So, we'll remove him for now.
That leaves... dakarian, Diakron, Boksi, and Mr.Person. And since Alexhans says Mr.Person is town, I'm inclined to believe him. He tends to understand Mr.Person very well, and I'm NOT so sure about him, but hey, we'll go with it for now. (He WAS wrong about me... I'll give it a chance)
So, dakarian, Diakron, and Boksi.
Boksi makes sense, since he's the counter-role to Mephansteras. Meph was sure if there was a role that would target him, it'd instead target Boksi. Like a roleblocker. So, he killed the first Night. Ergo, we'll assume that for now. Also, Mephansteras voted you first Day. Terrible, terrible scum...
Diakron. Diakron knows two roles. He didn't initially release his two known roles at first. I'm pretty certain it's because Meph told him to after he'd said one. He then later released them and his role to make up for it. If Alexhans hadn't held back on that, I'm sure Diakron would've released earlier. Thanks Alex.
Now, to dakarian. You simply have a terrible role that won't help us even IF you're town. Which you're likely not. Which is almost what you said to Alexhans. But you didn't vote him. You just told him he was being scummy and that he should stop. Not buying it... You were also very against the chaoticjosh lynch Day 1. I wonder why? You seem very buddy-buddy with Mephansteras. So does Diakron. You're also very against your own lynch, even with a terrible role. You seem very cautious when you vote people. You ask a lot of questions Day 1. A lot of stupid questions. And you're generally suspicious. Or is this not enough for you? Would you think it's better to keep you alive with that role?
Post by: JoshuaFH on October 08, 2009, 04:48:41 pm
Quote
This is true, I do not like tension. However! This does not mean I do not have Town as best interest in my heart. I want to help Town for once! I usually live to end-game anyway...at least now. I AM TOWN. I don't like tension either way.
That's nice Toon, very nice. Now, can you answer the question I posed to you?
Quote from: Frelock
Chaoticjosh - Already mentioned his bandwaggoning, also seems to buddy up with dakarion.
So wait, are you implying here that it's scummy to protect people you think are town? This might be hypocritical of me, since I did my fair share of attacking Alex for defending MP, but it's a little alarming that so few people share my sentiment. Especially jarring is how, yesterday, your sole opinion of Dakarian was:
Quote from: Frelock
Dakarian-
I've got nothing. Perhaps I just like his posting style too much, but I can't see why he's suspicious. Perhaps he's just flown under my radar but for the time being, he's neutral on my list.
So what happened that caused Dak to jump from neutral, to your most suspicious person? Especially since you said that you're inclined to believe he's town.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 08, 2009, 04:53:12 pm
@Josh
Considering you know Toony, what about him is exactly NOT Toony-town?
Note I don't say 'Normal town'. We all know Toony-town doesn't act like how we want him to act. We don't have time to hunt folks we don't like. What makes him SCUM rather than his normal self?
Furthermore, is Toony your only target? Any idea on who the other two are?
I wouldn't say I KNOW Toon, as I've really only played a handful of games with him, but if I had to say it, it'd be because scum toon reacts badly to tension. Not pressure, but tension. By that I mean the more 'serious' the day is, he gradually gets quieter and contributes less, opting to go with safer bets.
Where's the question? ???
Post by: JoshuaFH on October 08, 2009, 04:55:14 pm
Once again Toon, I know it's your style, but do you care to explain your choices to us?
More importantly, I have a stray feeling that you just want to follow WA around unquestionably. Stick as close to the confirmed townie as you can and be seen as town yourself perhaps?
Post by: ToonyMan on October 08, 2009, 05:01:42 pm
Once again Toon, I know it's your style, but do you care to explain your choices to us?
More importantly, I have a stray feeling that you just want to follow WA around unquestionably. Stick as close to the confirmed townie as you can and be seen as town yourself perhaps?
Alright, I answered the Webadict thing a hour ago or so.
Sir Josh - For thinking Dakarian is town and for degrading my honor! I will be most certain with you soon. Not now though. Sooon...
Dakarian - I posted some stuff about the previous page.
Cheeetar - Unfortunately, Webadict sees different so I'm not sure about Cheeetar anymore. I did say he was Town a long while ago, funny that. So I'll replace him with Diakron for this post (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=42096.msg801136#msg801136) and what Webadict said.
Post by: dakarian on October 08, 2009, 05:13:23 pm
You forgot a few people. The total list =
ToonyMan
chaoticjosh
Zaithemaster
Diakron
Mr.Person
Cheeetar
dakarian
Frelock
Boksi
Thus you forgot Cheeetar (though you believe he's town), Frelock, and Zaith
Quote
Now, to dakarian. You simply have a terrible role that won't help us even IF you're town. Which you're likely not. Which is almost what you said to Alexhans. But you didn't vote him. You just told him he was being scummy and that he should stop. Not buying it... You were also very against the chaoticjosh lynch Day 1. I wonder why? You seem very buddy-buddy with Mephansteras. So does Diakron. You're also very against your own lynch, even with a terrible role. You seem very cautious when you vote people. You ask a lot of questions Day 1. A lot of stupid questions. And you're generally suspicious. Or is this not enough for you? Would you think it's better to keep you alive with that role?
1. Yes I'm a horrible role. It's a reason why I'm not THAT much in pain of dying.
2. Not vote for Alex? I was one of the FIRST! I started the bandwagon! I voted for him when I accused him. When I stopped voting, I stopped accusing.
3. I wasn't against the reset. I wanted confirmation first. Someone had it, there was no reason to rush without getting it. So I asked for it. It was a simple thing to ask.
4. buddy buddy with Meph? How so, beyond him being under my radar?
5. I don't need to act suicidal just because my role is so horrible. If you accuse me, I'll ask for a reason. You could just end it by saying "I just think you're scum".
6. Day 1 is half full of random vote and awkward questions. Note that you weren't exactly acting sane early on either. :P
Look, if you want me to stop fighting you then fine. If you're dead set to kill me then so be it. Stop asking questions and leave me be. If you ask more or accuse more, I'll answer you. As it is, I'll die at the end of the day. It's distracting me from my work.
Post by: dakarian on October 08, 2009, 05:26:21 pm
Boksi needs to answer my questions/accusations badly.
Daikron seems wrong to me now.
But I can't find the final person.
Post by: Frelock on October 08, 2009, 05:27:44 pm
So what happened that caused Dak to jump from neutral, to your most suspicious person? Especially since you said that you're inclined to believe he's town.
Well, it was mostly based on the arguments of my most trusted townies. Considering that the top 3 people whom I'm near-certain are town are going against him, their arguments hold more sway. Yes, it's partially bandwagoning, but I consider it relying on people I trust, both as townies and as good mafia players. Their reasoning, especially web's point about there only being a limited number of people who can be scum, is what really makes me switch.
However, now it's nearly completely based off this quote:
Look, if you want me to stop fighting you then fine. If you're dead set to kill me then so be it. Stop asking questions and leave me be. If you ask more or accuse more, I'll answer you. As it is, I'll die at the end of the day. It's distracting me from my work.
Nothing's more scummy than giving up. I know; I've done it before as scum. Thanks for making that post, dakarian. Now I'm absolutely sure. Vote dakarian.
Post by: dakarian on October 08, 2009, 07:24:42 pm
I stand by my old statement. Once you know the noose is on you, the best thing to do is to carry a scum with you. I don't want my scumhunting to be smothered by WOTs of me defending myself uselessly. I'd rather lay a trail.
About time I get lynched anyway. You know I've never EVER been lynched in a mafia game? Not even the random-happy RL version. Not even when I'm scum (or religious). Not even with entire towns aiming for my head.
Btw, no, I don't want another "don't act like that. Defend yourself." If you think I shouldn't be lynched, go speak to Web. Otherwise, focus on finding the scum that'll die tomorrow.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 08, 2009, 09:43:27 pm
At least metaly.
Post by: Mr.Person on October 08, 2009, 11:38:56 pm
@Frelock
I stand by my old statement. Once you know the noose is on you, the best thing to do is to carry a scum with you. I don't want my scumhunting to be smothered by WOTs of me defending myself uselessly. I'd rather lay a trail.
About time I get lynched anyway. You know I've never EVER been lynched in a mafia game? Not even the random-happy RL version. Not even when I'm scum (or religious). Not even with entire towns aiming for my head.
Btw, no, I don't want another "don't act like that. Defend yourself." If you think I shouldn't be lynched, go speak to Web. Otherwise, focus on finding the scum that'll die tomorrow.
I don't think you should be lynched. I don't think I can convince anybody, however. I would say Cheeetar, Zaithemaster, or Boksi would be better lynches, if purely because Dakarian has been helpful with his posts, while I feel Cheeetar, Zaithemaster, and Boksi have been fairly useless all game. Since Webadict thinks Cheeetar is town, I'm going to go with Zaithemaster.
What's abnormal about what Dakarian is doing? (Besides the quitting thing, which is both stupid and scummy, so don't even both mentioning that.) He's been posting good info, he's posted his thoughts. I must be confused, please explain to me what exactly is odd about Dakarian's behavior?
Post by: dakarian on October 09, 2009, 12:15:34 am
I did a study on his posts on Day 1. People have been ignoring him, but he's been up front in trying to stop us from mass killing each other when others were content to let us be. If I can put someone closest to town (other than web, of course :P) it would be him at the moment.
Boksi's gone silent again. If he doesn't post for the rest of the day, please note that he's NOT afk but actually lurking and reading this thread (as shown by his speed in replying the second time I asked for his prod, and by the Mod not replacing him the first time I asked). He's hiding to dodge my question, hoping everyone would forget him again.
Once a mafia is found, you can use his actions to find the others. They like to random vote their own kind. They like to apply pressure on them and call them out EARLY so that others who are more willing to kill can't focus on it first. If the town pushes too hard, they bus the person. If the town pushes but is willing to pull back, they break the bandwagon. It's protectionism, and a good way to hide mistakes their partners are doing.
Meph applied all those links to Boksi. I don't believe he meant to die so I doubt he red herringed it.
The fun part is the last two. Of them, I've filtered the list down to these four.
chaoticjosh
Diakron
Mr.Person
Frelock
I don't think Toonyman has broken his metatells JUST yet so I'm willing to give him his town tells this game. Zaith's Day 1 posts sound more townie than I ever have been. Cheeetar sounds like a genuine novice town.
Yes, Mr. Person, you're on the list only because I STILL have you neutral, and we can't have anyone under the radar anymore.
What sucks is that there's VERY little to go off of. Day 1 talk, I see now, only really works well when compared with other days. Day 2's discussion was killed off FAST with web's bandwagon: A good move in the short term, but it shut down our scumhunting. I believe we need to be well established Day 4 if we're going to survive. As such we NEED as much info NOW as possible.
I'll be blunt.. shut up about my 'giving up'. When I'm on the noose I stop caring about whether I look scummy or not and, as those in BM1 remember, I DO get suicidal. Vote for me, don't vote for me, just don't spam the damn board with it.
So if you feel that Toonyman, Cheeetar, or Zaith are scum, you better bring some HARD evidence.
Boksi, you'll need hard evidence to not follow me to the grave.
You four, Chaoticjosh, Diakron, Mr.Person, Frelock:
I believe two of you are scum and two of you are town. Silence = scumminess at this point so get to talking and NOT about that stupid 'why you are town' BS. I want to know which of you are scum.
I'll try to get some more analysis going. If you're town, you'll do the same, even if it means going through the WOThell that is Day 1. Whatever you believe of me and Boksi, there's two scum you need found very, VERY soon.
Post by: Mr.Person on October 09, 2009, 12:56:23 am
Dakarian: If you still think I'm "neutral" but you think everybody else is "town", would that not mean I should be labeled as "scum"? You claim me still being neutral is a bad thing, yet it's your fault that I'm still neutral, so don't complain about it. If you think it's unacceptable you still label me as neutral, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! All you've done is throw WIFOM and then refused to question me to throw out a real opinion.
There had better be at least 4 WoT's when I get up tomorrow, btw.
Post by: dakarian on October 09, 2009, 01:05:46 am
See kids? This is what I mean. Actual content posts. What makes Dakarian scum? I don't see it, although I've got a question for him.
Dakarian: If you still think I'm "neutral" but you think everybody else is "town", would that not mean I should be labeled as "scum"? You claim me still being neutral is a bad thing, yet it's your fault that I'm still neutral, so don't complain about it. If you think it's unacceptable you still label me as neutral, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! All you've done is throw WIFOM and then refused to question me to throw out a real opinion.
There had better be at least 4 WoT's when I get up tomorrow, btw.
Neutral =! town. Neutral = I don't know you. Netural means I CAN'T put you off that list. Neutral, however, means that you aren't on the 'kill' list like Boksi is.
There's 3 others with you that are Neutral or, at best, 'worrisome' which is where Daikron actually is (The gut pushes him past Neutral). I don't have a firm read on them or you.
The problem, to my theory two of my Neutrals are scum. THAT is why I can't let you go, because if I let my Neutrals go I'm left without enough people to mark scum.
I'll look for more info, best I can. Meanwhile, if you are town, then two of the other three are NOT town. Spend less time wondering "why is this idiot still after me" and start wondering "Which of these folks are scummy?" Don't be content to just wipe them all out: go hunt them down.
If you're still thinking 'defense' think this: If we have the final scum then that, by definition, leaves you town.
Of course, if all you can do is complain about being targetted...
Post by: Mr.Person on October 09, 2009, 04:14:26 am
See kids? This is what I mean. Actual content posts. What makes Dakarian scum? I don't see it, although I've got a question for him.
Dakarian: If you still think I'm "neutral" but you think everybody else is "town", would that not mean I should be labeled as "scum"? You claim me still being neutral is a bad thing, yet it's your fault that I'm still neutral, so don't complain about it. If you think it's unacceptable you still label me as neutral, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! All you've done is throw WIFOM and then refused to question me to throw out a real opinion.
There had better be at least 4 WoT's when I get up tomorrow, btw.
Neutral =! town. Neutral = I don't know you. Netural means I CAN'T put you off that list. Neutral, however, means that you aren't on the 'kill' list like Boksi is.
There's 3 others with you that are Neutral or, at best, 'worrisome' which is where Daikron actually is (The gut pushes him past Neutral). I don't have a firm read on them or you.
The problem, to my theory two of my Neutrals are scum. THAT is why I can't let you go, because if I let my Neutrals go I'm left without enough people to mark scum.
I'll look for more info, best I can. Meanwhile, if you are town, then two of the other three are NOT town. Spend less time wondering "why is this idiot still after me" and start wondering "Which of these folks are scummy?" Don't be content to just wipe them all out: go hunt them down.
If you're still thinking 'defense' think this: If we have the final scum then that, by definition, leaves you town.
Of course, if all you can do is complain about being targetted...
You're an idiot. You're trying to give me tunnel vision. Sorry, mate, I don't play that shit. You can't just say "These guys are the potential scum, everybody who doesn't vote them is scum!". That's the game scum plays, the town has no reason to pull shit like that.
Now, first off, you gave the wrong answer. What you should of done was asked us neutrals more questions so we would no longer be neutral. Instead you try and pit us neutrals against each other. Now, you're saying you have NO scum predictions besides Boksi? There's plenty of scumminess to go around. Take a stand, come on. Why are you content with lynching us "neutrals" when what you SHOULD be doing is deciding who among us is scum?
Then to top it all off, you try and convince me to lynch the rest of the neutrals with a totally retarded comment. "Don't be content to wipe them all out: go hunt them all down." What does this even MEAN? It sounds like the filler bullshit I see in self-help books. It kind of sounds like you want me to focus scum-hunting on the people YOU want me to scumhunt, which is stupid, everybody should be interrogated (minus Webadict). Next, you try and make defending oneself sound scummy AND try and avoid getting attacked by trying to motivate me to lynch along your list to prove my towniness. Brilliant, except I could just go find the ACTUAL scum without you telling me who to hunt. To end it all, of course, you make a retarded threat, implying that if I don't just follow you I'll get lynched. Good job, trying to make defending oneself look scummy when it isn't. That's real nice. Unvote and vote Dakarian.
I know, I know, I was your only advocate, but that post is just so scummy, it hurts. Nice try, scum. I don't care how long your posts were or what kind of analysis you provided, you're not really accusing anybody except Boksi.
Post by: dakarian on October 09, 2009, 07:10:45 am
Very well, since Person's sick anything that doesn't show him as 100% town I better start on him.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Sum up:
A lot of the suspicion on him was based on his personality and his game theory. While both need some serious work, those are null tells. The rest of the issue involved hugging on Alex which is, again, a Null tell now that we know Alex is town.
What is more telling is that Meph tried to kill Person the Passive Scummy Way: bring up suspicion to get a bandwagon going, then slip away once it starts and avoid it like the plague. Thanks him hiding well and me being a big as hell spotlight with my own personality, it was easy to do.
Boksi and Daikron bandwagoned on Person with very poor reasons. It's less about Person and more of a bad sign for the both of them. I still need to do an analysis on Daikron though, but it helps to seal Boksi's case.
The rest of his dealings was defense, mostly since he had a bandwagon on him.
The last thing to note was his post to defend Alex that caused me to pull away from him. That really wasn't necessary and there is a very nice scenario that PersonScum would gain for pulling away form Alex that would kill the vig before the shot, possibly kill another active, and either clear PersonScum or bus PersonScum to clear MephScum and BoksiScum.
As such, Person is probably town ('probably' is the best you can get unless you die, flip, and return like Web :P).
Post by: dakarian on October 09, 2009, 09:03:20 am
First off, Diakron has the old Toony problem: you keep getting that scummy feeling on him. He just 'seems' scummy when you read him. The problem is that you'll feel that even if he's town. That means you actually have to filter that out before you can figure out just who he is.
I hear people scream out "play better!" I say meh to that. Instead, we need to read people properly. We solved it with Toony, thus leading to 'Toony Crazy'. When we solve it with Diakron, we'll probably have a name for it as well.
So the fun part: trying to weed out the junk.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Well.. I think I found what makes people suspect Diakron.. at least in this game. He rides arguements WAYYYYY too much. Diakron's "craziness" is the 'me too' feel to his arguments and the fact that he just sits in confusion otherwise.
The question is: is that really his 'craziness" that we have to consider his personality or is this particular in this game. If the former, then there's not much to really pin on him. If the latter, it's passive lurking switching into passive aggressiveness+leader following: Scummy behavior.
The idea of having to run through multiple games to figure that out scares me.
For now, I'm hoping that Josh's and Frelock's analysis will clear things up. Otherwise, Diakron looks to be the biggest contender.
Post by: Mr.Person on October 09, 2009, 11:16:58 am
Post by: dakarian on October 09, 2009, 11:25:48 am
Although I havn't posted it, I already did a analysis of Zaithemaster and found his posts even better than yours or mine. He's been less on the sidelines in Day 1 as he has been drowned out and he was active with what he gave. He also attempted to stop the town-town wars that occurred. Only way to mark him scum is to pull a "Too Town" argument.
That's the reason why I stopped you, Person: Not because I ONLY want those four searched but because I had done that search about the time you posted your vote on him.
And don't wait for my analysis. That's the POINT of my last batch of posts. EVERYONE needs to be doing this. I'm going to try getting Josh and Frelock's down. If you want to beat me to it or search someone else then go ahead.
Post by: dakarian on October 09, 2009, 11:29:59 am
If you're in "Ignore him, he's scum" mode then consider this message for the next day.
Post by: dakarian on October 09, 2009, 01:59:47 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
All in all... it looks bad. Very bad. Josh is aggressive and ready to attack people for bad actions. He spots things like I do many times and is fast on the draw. He's ready to vote and press people. He likes to watch debates unfold to see where they lead.
Unless someone suspects Meph and Boksi. Then OHHH NOOO, that's just wrong. Why did you do that? Don't you have someone else to target? Perhaps you're scum.. yah that's it. Now go back to attack someone else.
Web, Toony, Frelock (perhaps.. havn't done his analysis yet), Person. You DON"T know my alignment. You are scumhunting me and found me wanting.
Josh.. you KNOW my alignment. You know what it will look like once the flip happens, and you can just guess how Web and co will feel once it occurs. If the town does that kill and doesn't have a backup, they are sitting ducks for the mafia.
You KNOW I'm town, and last I checked, there's no Cop role.
Post by: dakarian on October 09, 2009, 02:02:08 pm
*KICK JOSH*
#&%$9 it I had to slog through 28 pages of your past posts for all that! You were active in like 500 threads during this game, even when you were silent here. I'm more worn out from you than Person and Diakron COMBINED!
Post by: Mr.Person on October 09, 2009, 02:29:47 pm
Now, if you havn't noticed, I tend to suspect those who defend me. I just get a "OMG scum's trying to use me to hide" reflex. I keep it a VERY low matter but it's still there.
Why? Because when I'm town (and, excluding Religious mafia, I've only been mafia ONCE in my mafia-playing career, and that was on a very different forum than here) I know only two groups of people KNOW I'm town:
Me, of course
And the mafia.
So I know that everyone else that's honest do NOT know my alignment. So, when you get a situation where the town is about to lynch me, it makes sense for the mafia, who KNOW, to jump to my aid. Of course, it's safe to attack me when no one is bothered with me since it won't go anywhere.
That's a fallacy. Even though this is mafia, sometimes a townie just thinks another player is town, just look at Alexhans and me. Hell, it happens all the time!
Additionally, if you're town, why the fuck would the mafia want to save you? They WANT YOU TO GET LYNCHED! If a mafia member goes out of his or her way to save somebody, all that does is change a lynch victim from a townie to a person who could very well be another mafia member. There is that "buddy-up" factor, but they'd probably just make it look like fake helping and say something like "No, he's town. I just know it! You'll all see when you lynch him, scum!"
Post by: JoshuaFH on October 09, 2009, 03:03:01 pm
Btw.
*KICK JOSH*
#&%$9 it I had to slog through 28 pages of your past posts for all that! You were active in like 500 threads during this game, even when you were silent here. I'm more worn out from you than Person and Diakron COMBINED!
I really appreciate you taking the time to write all that Dak, but deciphering epic WOT's isn't a well-developed skill of mine, especially when they seem to lack a coherent point. Could you point out the highlights in case there was something specific you wanted me to respond to?
Post by: dakarian on October 09, 2009, 03:04:59 pm
2. The mafia's main goal in the day is NOT to get you lynched.
It's to survive.
Killing a townie is wonderful.. great.. a bonus, but they don't NEED it. We could lynch one person, two people, 20 people or no one, so long as no scum die then they are content. Remember, they have the trusty NightKill to actually do their dirty work.
This is why most of the town lynches in a game are done BY town, not mafia. The town is bloodthirsty while the mafia, beyond novices, are NOT.
What the mafia truly, TRULY care about is looking town. They'll attack each other to look town. They'll BUS each other to look town. They'll save whoever they need to to look town.
"No he's town. I just know it!..." We're not dealing with newbie scum that can't hold an argument. We're dealing with people who are aggressive, willing to get into the spotlight, and can pull a powerful speech.
"They'll turn the lynch from a town to scum." Not when you know the town is tunnelvisioned. Not when the town is so willing to kill that they don't even NEED a reason. Then you can say whatever you want and know, KNOW, no one will listen. When the day end and the player flips, a smart mafia won't even say "OMG you guys are scum!" Meh. A SMART mafia will say "look, we can salvage this. This is what we do."
What if they DO listen to you? Well, just have someone you want them to target ready to go.
It's been done. Pandarsenic and Diakron did it TWICE in Beginner's Mafia 2. He had someone that everyone felt was scum, let the town try to lynch him, then disrupted the bandwagon to aim at ANOTHER town instead. The town split between the two, the one that was about to be lynched jumped on the other to save their own hide, and the mafia laughed. They kept doing it until all that was left was both mafia, the 'saved townie' and a bewildered sideliner unable to make sense of it all.
If that was ALL that I based my lynch on, I'd be a fool. Josh's 3rd day actions are just icing on the cake. The real argument is in Day 1.
Post by: dakarian on October 09, 2009, 03:08:06 pm
Btw.
*KICK JOSH*
#&%$9 it I had to slog through 28 pages of your past posts for all that! You were active in like 500 threads during this game, even when you were silent here. I'm more worn out from you than Person and Diakron COMBINED!
I really appreciate you taking the time to write all that Dak, but deciphering epic WOT's isn't a well-developed skill of mine, especially when they seem to lack a coherent point. Could you point out the highlights in case there was something specific you wanted me to respond to?
You mean the summary highlighting all of the specific points as to why I mark you scum that I wrote OUTSIDE of the Spoiler text to allow for easy reading that you decided NOT to quote when replying to me, instead opting to reply to the contentless post following it?
Sure.
Quote
Josh is aggressive and ready to attack people for bad actions. He spots things like I do many times and is fast on the draw. He's ready to vote and press people. He likes to watch debates unfold to see where they lead.
Unless someone suspects Meph and Boksi. Then OHHH NOOO, that's just wrong. Why did you do that? Don't you have someone else to target? Perhaps you're scum.. yah that's it. Now go back to attack someone else.
Web, Toony, Frelock (perhaps.. havn't done his analysis yet), Person. You DON"T know my alignment. You are scumhunting me and found me wanting.
Josh.. you KNOW my alignment. You know what it will look like once the flip happens, and you can just guess how Web and co will feel once it occurs. If the town does that kill and doesn't have a backup, they are sitting ducks for the mafia.
You KNOW I'm town, and last I checked, there's no Cop role.
Post by: Leafsnail on October 09, 2009, 03:23:19 pm
Quote
Mr.Person - Diakron
dakarian - webadict, ToonyMan, Cheeetar, Frelock
ToonyMan - chaoticjosh
Diakron - Zaithemaster
Boksi - Dakarian
Zaithermaster - Mr.Person
3 more days till deadline.
Post by: JoshuaFH on October 09, 2009, 03:35:36 pm
Quote
Josh is aggressive and ready to attack people for bad actions. He spots things like I do many times and is fast on the draw. He's ready to vote and press people. He likes to watch debates unfold to see where they lead.
Unless someone suspects Meph and Boksi. Then OHHH NOOO, that's just wrong. Why did you do that? Don't you have someone else to target? Perhaps you're scum.. yah that's it. Now go back to attack someone else.
Web, Toony, Frelock (perhaps.. havn't done his analysis yet), Person. You DON"T know my alignment. You are scumhunting me and found me wanting.
Josh.. you KNOW my alignment. You know what it will look like once the flip happens, and you can just guess how Web and co will feel once it occurs. If the town does that kill and doesn't have a backup, they are sitting ducks for the mafia.
You KNOW I'm town, and last I checked, there's no Cop role.
Frankly Dak, you're putting words in my mouth. I don't recall ever defending Meph or Boksi, if that's what you're saying.
Also, just as MP said, that's a fallacy. I looked at your posts throughout the game, and I can't help but think "He's probably town". I told you this already, and I'd still prefer it if everyone reconsidered and could find someone else to pile onto. Preferably Toon, Boksi, or Diakron, as that's who I'm betting the scum are.
I have to ask this though, is something bothering you? You do seem notably frustrated.
Post by: dakarian on October 09, 2009, 04:00:46 pm
Defending Meph:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Defending Boksi:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Note there are no times when you even considered Meph or Boksi as mafia (until your post.. which is AFTER I mention it).
Don't hang on to the strawman. Your defense of me is the smallest piece of the issue.
Btw, would you mind if you switched around that order: Go for Boksi first? Unless you have a problem there too.
Post by: JoshuaFH on October 09, 2009, 04:31:53 pm
Quote from: Dak
Toon was the one that pushed for that bet in the first place. He was ready to risk dying in order to prove Person as guilty. As such, he was doing a lot more than just using josh's argument.
This is one thing that bothers me though, I still don't get why you keep on bringing up that bet as though it were actually significant. It wouldn't have proven anything either way, and if anything it was only a clever tool to push Toony around.
Quote
Note there are no times when you even considered Meph or Boksi as mafia (until your post.. which is AFTER I mention it).
What is this? I didn't suspect Meph, sure, but I did suspect Boksi, I believe I said so in an earlier post.
Quote
Btw, would you mind if you switched around that order: Go for Boksi first? Unless you have a problem there too.
What is it that bothers you about me attacking Toon? People will say that he has few scumtells, but I don't believe that, and I have a hell of a hunch that says otherwise. It's like your taking me not going for Boksi's throat as a defense of him somehow.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 09, 2009, 05:11:42 pm
Post by: dakarian on October 09, 2009, 05:33:25 pm
The POINT to that was to show that Toony wasn't just using your argument to attack Alex, which is what you claimed when you attacked him. He had his own agenda and was very bold about it, as represented by him accepting that bet. It's not to prove Alex's or Toony's innocence or guilt, only to disprove your argument against him at the time and show that it was just reaching for straws.
Btw, my full argument was about how you attacked Toony to get him off of Boksi. Don't Strawman please.
@ Point 2
Which earlier post? Mind finding it? Don't use the one where you plopped his name in after I accused you please. Find one beforehand.
That you can't find a post accusing Meph and that you can't fight against my points where you did defend him, I guess you accept that you DID defend Meph. That's worse beacuse Boksi isn't truly confirmed yet while Meph is a confirmed scum.
@point 3
in BM1 I felt that Jim and Vector were scum. Web thought that Vector and I were scum. At one point, we agreed to focus on Vector. I made the mistake of breaking that and turning to Jim instead.
Turned out: Vector was scum. Me and Jim were town.
Today: I believe you and Boksi are scum. You believe Toony, Boksi, and Diakron are scum.
Put them together and you get a Boksi scum.
Toony has PLENTY of scumtells: just not TYPICAL scumtells. I've seen him with me when we were both Religious(a form of mafia) in Religious Mafia. I've seen him as town. He has some very clear scumtells and town tells. The fact that we named one (Toony Tunnel) subverted them, though, so this may be the last game where I can rely on them. However, this game, he's shown his town tells.
So, I have his town tells and him showing a lack of scumtells to judge and you have 'a hunch' not unlike Web's 'gut'.
Meanwhile you have your PM role and I have my argument when it comes to you.
But we BOTH agree about Boksi.
If you believe he's scum, and I believe he's scum.. why not go for him first? With each mafia kill it gets easier to find the others.
You had no problems killing Meph even when you thought I was scum, after all.
Post by: webadict on October 09, 2009, 05:59:14 pm
So, just pick and choose. I'll make sure we get at least one tomorrow.
Why you're saying voting Boksi is bad... I dunno. Why are you? Is he automatically scum? He hasn't been proven.
But, I'll give you this. We'll lynch Boksi. Because I have a plan.
But, you have to promise not to post more than once Tomorrow. Okay? Promise? If you post more than that, we'll simply automatically lynch you. ;)
Can you agree to that? You better save it for a good long post... Oh, and before you say I can't do this: I can! Mostly because I'm gaining more proven townies every night! Anyhow, back to business.
Post by: Cheeetar on October 09, 2009, 06:12:39 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on October 09, 2009, 06:22:14 pm
Post by: dakarian on October 09, 2009, 06:28:05 pm
i understand. one post.. no more tomorrow.
While I can still talk, Web, should I do an analysis of Frelock? I havn't gotten to him yet. Also, if there's anyone else you want me to check just ask.
Post by: Mr.Person on October 09, 2009, 06:36:38 pm
One post.... oh..
i understand. one post.. no more tomorrow.
While I can still talk, Web, should I do an analysis of Frelock? I havn't gotten to him yet. Also, if there's anyone else you want me to check just ask.
I think you can still freely PM and count as only making one post. We should probably get confirmation on that first, however. So, if you want extra posts tomorrow, just PM Webadict/everybody and have somebody else post what you want to say.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 09, 2009, 06:59:40 pm
Unvote.
Vote Boksi.
Post by: Frelock on October 09, 2009, 07:01:23 pm
While I'm still not convinced that you are town (the "giving up" always gets under my nerves), I'm willing to follow web's plan. It's clear what he's doing, and it's a good idea. I for one am quite willing to follow it. Boski
Also, your analyses thus far are all well thought out and support from the text is given. Josh's reaction to your observations I find defensive, almost too defensive.
Post by: dakarian on October 09, 2009, 07:31:41 pm
As for 'giving up' It's something to expect. I ignore random votes (or try to). I defend against accusations. I answer questions. Lastly, if I feel I'm about to die, I stop defending myself and turn to 'analysis dump' style hunting.
Key is: I don't have to live to win. I just need the scum to lose.
Even with my analysis, I'm still short a scum. Diakron is up in the air, you're neutral.. if it's neither of you then there's a very sneaky mafia out there.
Post by: Diakron on October 09, 2009, 08:05:58 pm
Bad new: OMFG CANT WAIT FOR THIS GAME TO COME OUT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderlands_(video_game) ) it is driving me literally insane i dont eat i can't sleep, i cant even concentrate on gaming all i want is for October 20 to finally come around!!!!
sorry i forgot what i wanted to say :(
Post by: webadict on October 09, 2009, 10:48:21 pm
One post.... oh..Do whatever you want. I ain't gonna stop you. Also, you should be safe for tonight.
i understand. one post.. no more tomorrow.
While I can still talk, Web, should I do an analysis of Frelock? I havn't gotten to him yet. Also, if there's anyone else you want me to check just ask.
Post by: Zai on October 09, 2009, 10:59:51 pm
Yeah...No. I'm keeping my vote on you, Diakron, at least until you actually give some answers. Don't try and evade questions and derail with some comment about a game. Though it does sound like you're experiencing some difficulties with your hand (?), you need to actually provide coherent and relevant responses to various questions. But once again, my vote doesn't really matter, as there's already a good number of people voting for Boksi.
Post by: webadict on October 09, 2009, 11:27:13 pm
Thank you for that very insightful post, Diakron. You addressed all of my concerns about you in a very concise and intelligent manner. I unvote Diakron and will be hopping on the Boksi wagon at my earliest convenience.Good call. Also, I'm going to post some fairly incoherent things, just so you know:
Yeah...No. I'm keeping my vote on you, Diakron, at least until you actually give some answers. Don't try and evade questions and derail with some comment about a game. Though it does sound like you're experiencing some difficulties with your hand (?), you need to actually provide coherent and relevant responses to various questions. But once again, my vote doesn't really matter, as there's already a good number of people voting for Boksi.
If Boksi is scum, Mr.Person is town.
If Mr.Person is scum, Boksi is town.
Got it?
Post by: Frelock on October 10, 2009, 12:02:35 am
Post by: webadict on October 10, 2009, 12:33:36 am
As a logician, I note that you say nothing of the case when Boski or Mr. Person is town.Because this only applies if either is scum. If neither are, meh. Doesn't work. This is simply putting out a nice if then statement for everyone.
Post by: Leafsnail on October 10, 2009, 09:58:21 am
Quote
Mr.Person - Diakron
ToonyMan - chaoticjosh
Diakron - Zaithemaster
Boksi - Dakarian, webadict, Cheeetar, Mr.Person, ToonyMan, Frelock
Day ends in about 48 hours. I will take day shortening requests, if you so wish. And yes, you can make pms without them counting as posts.
Post by: dakarian on October 10, 2009, 10:09:28 am
Request to shorten day.
Post by: webadict on October 10, 2009, 10:37:42 am
Post by: Boksi on October 10, 2009, 11:25:21 am
I'm willing to swear on my honor that I'm town, but I guess there's no argument I can put out to convince you people, is there?
Go ahead and ask me questions if you want. I'll answer them to the best of my ability.
Post by: Mr.Person on October 10, 2009, 12:21:47 pm
-_-
I'm willing to swear on my honor that I'm town, but I guess there's no argument I can put out to convince you people, is there?
Go ahead and ask me questions if you want. I'll answer them to the best of my ability.
Well, we can start with the easy ones: Who do you think is scum and why? Who do you think is town and why?
Post by: dakarian on October 10, 2009, 12:27:07 pm
why do we need to keep evoking your name before you appear to us?
Post by: Boksi on October 10, 2009, 12:57:51 pm
Because I feel like I have nothing to contribute. Because I think I'm going to mess up. Because I can never be certain. I try to contribute, but I can never do anything. It's like writer's block with a side slice of shyness.
So, on to the first one:
As I said, I always feel like I have nothing to contribute. If I were scum I'd probably post more, since then I don't have to worry about being wrong, only about messing up. But I did say I'd answer to the best of my ability. So who do I think is scum and who town? Honestly, I have no real clue as to who is scum. Even my gut doesn't have any advice for me.
As for who is town, I think Dakarian is town: He has made some excellent points and even though he thinks I'm scum I think he's simply mistaken. He's been doing a pretty good job with helping the town and scumhunting. I think Mr. Person is a townie, albeit a very abrasive one. Very aggressive; it was his sudden, unexpected defense of Alexhans that put me off him early on, combined with a rather... spirited defense of himself later on, Alexhans' flip and conviction of Mr. Person's town-status that convinced me.
Post by: Leafsnail on October 12, 2009, 11:08:18 am
Quote
Mr.Person - Diakron
ToonyMan - chaoticjosh
Diakron - Zaithemaster
Boksi - Dakarian, webadict, Cheeetar, Mr.Person, ToonyMan, Frelock
Gentlemen, make your time.
Post by: webadict on October 12, 2009, 11:11:09 am
Post by: Leafsnail on October 12, 2009, 02:03:19 pm
You can post in this "twilight period" but you can't change votes.
Post by: webadict on October 12, 2009, 02:05:20 pm
*Boogies!*
Post by: Leafsnail on October 12, 2009, 02:33:22 pm
Quote
Mr.Person - Diakron"You can't kill me..." mumbles Boksi, "You have no proof..."
ToonyMan - chaoticjosh
Diakron - Zaithemaster
Boksi - Dakarian, webadict, Cheeetar, Mr.Person, ToonyMan, Frelock
"We'll kill whoever we like, scum!" says webadict, as the pentagram begins to appear on the floor once again, "And, even if you are town, after you're dead, we'll know a lot more!"
"Wait!" says Boksi, "Can't you just check my identity BEFORE you kill me? I mean, why do you always have to shoot first and ask later?"
The room falls into silence. After a long pause, Dakarian responds, "Because that's how it's always done?"
You all head up the stairs, along with Boksi. He shows you around his room, indicating the huge pile of letters addressed to "Drakonian", and the "Return to Sender" stamp marked on all of them. Hmm, so he must be Dracron then. Checking his room some more, you conclude that he must be... Hotel aligned! Wow, that was easy. You found out and you didn't have to kill him... great!
You go back to the main room. "Well..." says webadict, "Looks like Dracron's quick thinking has helped us greatly! We can add another confirmed towny to our list and... hmm.. why don't we just search everyone's room?"
"ARRRGGHHHH!!!" You all turn as a scream comes from the centre of the room. It looks like it came from... Dracron! It seems that a pentagram has appeared at his feet! Boksi yells again and collapses to the floor, his muscles contracting in pain.
CHEAT
"It was... just... to... argh... save myself!" says Boksi between yelps, "I don't want to... die here!!"
CHEATS WILL BE ELIMINATED
A lightening bolt comes straight down from the sky (ceiling?), striking Boksi in the chest. The pentagram guarentees a dramatic moment, and all of Dracron's muscles seem to contract at once. He is thrown into the air, and falls back down to the floor, dead. You stare at his body... the body that joins those of RedWarrior0 and Archangel lying on the floor. You shiver. 5 innocent people are dead, another possessed by an assassin also struck down. How much more of this will have to happen before you find your last 3 scum? Your enforced curfew comes into effect, and you all begin to move reluctantly to your rooms. Before you leave, however, you find a note in Dracron's now burnt pocket.
Quote
You are Dracron. The similarity of name with Drakonian confuses other players. All night actions aimed for you will instead go to him, providing he's alive, and vice versa. This ability will not work if it is Drakonian targetting you.
Night 3 has begun. Please submit your night actions, everyone.
Post by: Leafsnail on October 13, 2009, 12:12:35 pm
Entering his room turns out to be unnecessary for ascertaining cause of death - his door is wide open, and the corridor just outside his room is covered with blood. Urgh... the nearly fresh blood is similar to the blood you found in Alexhan's room yesterday, the blood left as if the attacker not only killed but also devoured his victim. You look around in Frelock's room, and, in horror, find Arguments To Use Against Cultists (vol 4). A collection of similar titles seems to confirm your worse fears... this was JanetFourEyes, a Hotel aligned player. His little note on the wall reads:
Quote
You are JanetFourEyes. Quiet and analytical, you are perfectly placed to protect someone each night. You can send me the name of the person you want to protect, and you will go to their house and convince a would be killer of that person that killing the player they were aiming for is a bad idea. That player will hang around their house instead, however, and find out the protected players role.
Day will run for about 3 days, with the possibility of an extension.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 13, 2009, 12:16:15 pm
chaoticjosh
Zaithemaster
Diakron
Mr.Person
Cheeetar
dakarian
webadict
8 total.
3 are mafia.
We need to lynch a mafia this day mate. Also, why did we lynch Boksi yesterday? I mean WHY? So we can lynch Dakarian this day or what?
Post by: Diakron on October 13, 2009, 03:48:29 pm
RL gets in the way again
Post by: Zai on October 13, 2009, 05:29:46 pm
Also, why did we lynch Boksi yesterday? I mean WHY?
Because you voted for him.
I'll be voting for Diakron again, at least until he gets replaced; many (all?) of my problems with Diakron are about his actions and reactions, and his replacement can't really be held responsible for those I suppose...which kind of ruins the game, really. But if he doesn't get replaced before the day's up, my vote remains on him.
Post by: Mr.Person on October 13, 2009, 05:32:02 pm
Also, why did we lynch Boksi yesterday? I mean WHY?
Because you voted for him.
I'll be voting for Diakron again, at least until he gets replaced; many (all?) of my problems with Diakron are about his actions and reactions, and his replacement can't really be held responsible for those I suppose...which kind of ruins the game, really. But if he doesn't get replaced before the day's up, my vote remains on him.
I notice that at no point did you say you thought Diakron to be scummy, you only want him lynched because he needs to be replaced.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 13, 2009, 05:37:12 pm
Post by: Zai on October 13, 2009, 06:09:30 pm
Also, why did we lynch Boksi yesterday? I mean WHY?
Because you voted for him.
I'll be voting for Diakron again, at least until he gets replaced; many (all?) of my problems with Diakron are about his actions and reactions, and his replacement can't really be held responsible for those I suppose...which kind of ruins the game, really. But if he doesn't get replaced before the day's up, my vote remains on him.
I notice that at no point did you say you thought Diakron to be scummy, you only want him lynched because he needs to be replaced.
...What? I think I've made it clear in my previous posts that I believe Diakron "actions and reactions" to be scummy, so that isn't really "at no point". And don't make things up. I did not say that I want him lynched because he needs to be replaced; I've said my actual reasons for voting Diakron multiple times. Please point me to what you're misinterpreting as me saying that I want him lynched because he's getting replaced. To clarify what I actually said: my vote will continue to be on him for all the reasons I've said previously, at least until he's replaced, at which point I may reconsider.
Post by: Mr.Person on October 13, 2009, 07:18:18 pm
In fact, Diakron, get in here and say who you think is scum.
Post by: webadict on October 13, 2009, 08:13:57 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on October 13, 2009, 09:24:39 pm
Post by: webadict on October 13, 2009, 09:31:11 pm
So, Webadict, what was that plan you said you had?Well... it WOULD've worked, but Diakron messed it up.
Hmm...
Post by: ToonyMan on October 13, 2009, 09:34:27 pm
Post by: webadict on October 13, 2009, 09:37:45 pm
LYNCH THE DIAKRON....Or we could lynch you? So shut it.
Post by: Cheeetar on October 13, 2009, 09:39:32 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on October 13, 2009, 09:41:27 pm
Post by: webadict on October 13, 2009, 09:52:29 pm
Diakron
Mr.Person
ToonyMan
Cheeetar
Zaithemaster
dakarian
chaoticjosh
That's who's left...
Post by: ToonyMan on October 13, 2009, 10:01:25 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on October 13, 2009, 10:09:43 pm
webadictThat's who is confirmed. I have a question. Is the ChaoticJim role still alive?
Diakron
Mr.Person
ToonyMan
Cheeetar
Zaithemaster
dakarian
chaoticjosh
That's who's left...
Post by: webadict on October 13, 2009, 10:55:51 pm
You forgot one. And ToonyMan isn't really confirmed. He's just not likely scum.webadictThat's who is confirmed. I have a question. Is the ChaoticJim role still alive?
Diakron
Mr.Person
ToonyMan
Cheeetar
Zaithemaster
dakarian
chaoticjosh
That's who's left...
Post by: Cheeetar on October 13, 2009, 11:02:27 pm
Post by: webadict on October 13, 2009, 11:11:55 pm
Ok, so. Meph, the assassin, whose night action as mafia makes him kill people, visited ToonyMan but was deflected by Frelock. So, how exactly is Toony not confirmed? And how exactly is Zaithe confirmed? 'given that your known roles and roles known by others were Mephansteras'. I don't get it.ToonyMan had a role that made everyone move toward him. You should've realised this...
Unless you knew that Mephansteras attacked ToonyMan.
Post by: Cheeetar on October 14, 2009, 01:47:22 am
Post by: webadict on October 14, 2009, 08:36:39 am
How was I to realise this? Also: Now you suspect me? What is this.Just me doubting myself.
I probably shoudn't.
... Hmm...
Post by: Cheeetar on October 15, 2009, 09:46:10 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on October 15, 2009, 09:47:39 pm
So... what now?
Lynch Dakarian.
Post by: Cheeetar on October 15, 2009, 10:06:27 pm
Post by: Zai on October 15, 2009, 10:31:03 pm
Wonderful idea! Dakarian. For some reason, you guys suspected him a lot back then. And then you didn't, and lynched a townie. I think it's pretty clear I have no idea what's going on, but I have a 3/5 chance of hitting mafia if I lynch at random, and they're good odds.
3/8 (three out of eight) actually. If it were 3/5 (three out of 5), we would have already lost. You'd be correct if you meant 3:5 (three to five), though.
Leafsnail, can we get an extra day? Or at least a few extra hours? I don't like the current bandwagon mentality, and would like more discussion to be facilitated. If we lynch wrong again today and tomorrow, town loses.
I don't think the post restriction put on Dakarian by Web is helping either; he seems to be a major source of discussion. There really isn't any reason for him to follow the restriction anyway; as it currently stands, he's going to be lynched, the threat of which is all that keeps him silent (as far as I know, at least).
And where's Josh? I heard something about him being gone on the 18th, but we aren't quite there yet.
Post by: Mr.Person on October 15, 2009, 10:34:17 pm
Wonderful idea! Dakarian. For some reason, you guys suspected him a lot back then. And then you didn't, and lynched a townie. I think it's pretty clear I have no idea what's going on, but I have a 3/5 chance of hitting mafia if I lynch at random, and they're good odds.
We stopped suspecting him because we're going to kill him with the anti-lurking role, something you would know if you were paying attention.
Post by: webadict on October 15, 2009, 11:09:36 pm
ToonyMan, why are you saying anything. You can shut up.
Post by: Cheeetar on October 15, 2009, 11:45:27 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on October 15, 2009, 11:49:44 pm
Actually, there are 3 confirmed townies, Zaithe. Me, Web and Toony. So, 3/5. I'm not going to randomly pick a confirmed townie. Also: Mr. Person, would you kindly point out the post in which that was said?
It was sorta one of those "read-between-the-lines" things, but why else would Webadict have Dakarian not post more than once in the day?
Post by: webadict on October 15, 2009, 11:55:12 pm
Actually, there are 3 confirmed townies, Zaithe. Me, Web and Toony. So, 3/5. I'm not going to randomly pick a confirmed townie. Also: Mr. Person, would you kindly point out the post in which that was said?That's 4/8... But I don't like to include ToonyMan.
Mr.Person... I guess.
Post by: Cheeetar on October 16, 2009, 01:21:29 am
Post by: Cheeetar on October 16, 2009, 01:22:26 am
Post by: webadict on October 16, 2009, 09:16:26 am
Webadict, you seem uncertain. Perhaps it would help yourself and others obey your choice if you compiled your reasons for voting for him. Unvote. Vote Mr. Person.Not really. It would make me feel better if I could figure this out.
And I include Zaithemaster in confirmed townies.
Post by: Cheeetar on October 16, 2009, 09:46:28 am
Post by: Cheeetar on October 16, 2009, 09:48:41 am
Post by: Mr.Person on October 16, 2009, 11:31:23 am
Webadict, you seem uncertain. Perhaps it would help yourself and others obey your choice if you compiled your reasons for voting for him. Unvote. Vote Mr. Person.
So, since he's provided no reason for voting me, why are you voting me? Bandwagoning is no good, you have to give a reason for voting people.
Actually, there are 3 confirmed townies, Zaithe. Me, Web and Toony. So, 3/5. I'm not going to randomly pick a confirmed townie. Also: Mr. Person, would you kindly point out the post in which that was said?That's 4/8... But I don't like to include ToonyMan.
Mr.Person... I guess.
And again, how am I supposed to defend myself if you won't post a reason for voting me?
Post by: Leafsnail on October 16, 2009, 12:04:32 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on October 16, 2009, 01:48:08 pm
And yes Mr.Person, you're scum.
"Alexhans is scum morons", right? You were pretty right if I don't say myself.
Post by: Mr.Person on October 16, 2009, 02:45:02 pm
Oh, yes. I forgot about that. Unvote.
And yes Mr.Person, you're scum.
"Alexhans is scum morons", right? You were pretty right if I don't say myself.
Once again, why are you voting me? Why are you choosing me over the other players? I can't defend myself if you won't show me the evidence against me.
Post by: webadict on October 16, 2009, 02:49:44 pm
Why are you asking questions?Oh, yes. I forgot about that. Unvote.
And yes Mr.Person, you're scum.
"Alexhans is scum morons", right? You were pretty right if I don't say myself.
Once again, why are you voting me? Why are you choosing me over the other players? I can't defend myself if you won't show me the evidence against me.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 16, 2009, 02:53:20 pm
Oh, yes. I forgot about that. Unvote.
And yes Mr.Person, you're scum.
"Alexhans is scum morons", right? You were pretty right if I don't say myself.
Once again, why are you voting me? Why are you choosing me over the other players? I can't defend myself if you won't show me the evidence against me.
You aren't scum hunting.
Post by: Mr.Person on October 16, 2009, 03:41:21 pm
Why are you asking questions?Oh, yes. I forgot about that. Unvote.
And yes Mr.Person, you're scum.
"Alexhans is scum morons", right? You were pretty right if I don't say myself.
Once again, why are you voting me? Why are you choosing me over the other players? I can't defend myself if you won't show me the evidence against me.
Why aren't you explaining yourself? Note that "Confirmed Townie knowledge" is acceptable, as would a "Conflicting stories" answer would also be acceptable. As it is, you're basically going "Let's randomly lynch!" as far as I can tell.
Oh, yes. I forgot about that. Unvote.
And yes Mr.Person, you're scum.
"Alexhans is scum morons", right? You were pretty right if I don't say myself.
Once again, why are you voting me? Why are you choosing me over the other players? I can't defend myself if you won't show me the evidence against me.
You aren't scum hunting.
And you are? Nobody is, really, everybody's just going "Let's follow Webadict blindly!" Again, this is fine, I just dislike being left in the dark about why the one everybody's jumping on.
Post by: webadict on October 16, 2009, 03:53:56 pm
Pretty much.Why are you asking questions?Oh, yes. I forgot about that. Unvote.
And yes Mr.Person, you're scum.
"Alexhans is scum morons", right? You were pretty right if I don't say myself.
Once again, why are you voting me? Why are you choosing me over the other players? I can't defend myself if you won't show me the evidence against me.
Why aren't you explaining yourself? Note that "Confirmed Townie knowledge" is acceptable, as would a "Conflicting stories" answer would also be acceptable. As it is, you're basically going "Let's randomly lynch!" as far as I can tell.
Unless you have a better idea? I just don't feel you helping.
Post by: Mr.Person on October 16, 2009, 06:09:31 pm
Pretty much.Why are you asking questions?Oh, yes. I forgot about that. Unvote.
And yes Mr.Person, you're scum.
"Alexhans is scum morons", right? You were pretty right if I don't say myself.
Once again, why are you voting me? Why are you choosing me over the other players? I can't defend myself if you won't show me the evidence against me.
Why aren't you explaining yourself? Note that "Confirmed Townie knowledge" is acceptable, as would a "Conflicting stories" answer would also be acceptable. As it is, you're basically going "Let's randomly lynch!" as far as I can tell.
Unless you have a better idea? I just don't feel you helping.
Well, as much as I would prefer you lynched somebody else, I doubt I can really convince you otherwise.
Here's a good question you can answer or not answer if you want: When I die and flip town, will that prove another player is scum?
Post by: webadict on October 16, 2009, 06:23:54 pm
You should as if you're picking your words very carefully...Pretty much.Why are you asking questions?Oh, yes. I forgot about that. Unvote.
And yes Mr.Person, you're scum.
"Alexhans is scum morons", right? You were pretty right if I don't say myself.
Once again, why are you voting me? Why are you choosing me over the other players? I can't defend myself if you won't show me the evidence against me.
Why aren't you explaining yourself? Note that "Confirmed Townie knowledge" is acceptable, as would a "Conflicting stories" answer would also be acceptable. As it is, you're basically going "Let's randomly lynch!" as far as I can tell.
Unless you have a better idea? I just don't feel you helping.
Well, as much as I would prefer you lynched somebody else, I doubt I can really convince you otherwise.
Here's a good question you can answer or not answer if you want: When I die and flip town, will that prove another player is scum?
Post by: Mr.Person on October 16, 2009, 07:04:49 pm
Ok, when I flip town, what's your game plan after that?
Post by: webadict on October 16, 2009, 07:12:08 pm
I'm trying not to rolefish. I don't know anything, and I would like to keep it that way, minus the info I asked you. Like I said, you're free not to answer that question, if you want. Since you didn't, I'll just assume you don't want to answer that one. No biggie, I wouldn't answer it in your position either.Pretty much hope that you don't. :P
Ok, when I flip town, what's your game plan after that?
Because this game is lame with everyone lurking.
Post by: Cheeetar on October 16, 2009, 07:37:38 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on October 16, 2009, 07:39:09 pm
Post by: webadict on October 16, 2009, 08:08:31 pm
Webadict: Explain thoroughly how Zai is a confirmed townie. I will trust you on this and will vote accordingly, but I would like it explained.He's confirmed the same way you're confirmed.
Post by: Cheeetar on October 16, 2009, 08:09:54 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on October 16, 2009, 09:08:49 pm
3/4 chance that you're scum, Mr. Person. There are 4 confirmed townies, and 4 unknowns. You are an unknown. There are 3 scum.
So you're just going to sit back and randomly lynch? You guys, of all people, should know just how stupid that is. Scumhunt, come on. If you think I'm scum for something, ask me why you I did that. Now you may be asking why I'm not asking other people questions, that would probably be because I'd be pushing Cheeetar and Zaithemaster, but, you know, they're confirmed, so that's not going to happen. Beyond those two, I'm really at a loss as to who would be a good lynch. I still hold that Dakarian is town, but with 3 scum, I guess that's not possible.
Dakarian, please PM everybody who you think is scum and why, please. It would be useful to know.
I'm trying not to rolefish. I don't know anything, and I would like to keep it that way, minus the info I asked you. Like I said, you're free not to answer that question, if you want. Since you didn't, I'll just assume you don't want to answer that one. No biggie, I wouldn't answer it in your position either.Pretty much hope that you don't. :P
Ok, when I flip town, what's your game plan after that?
Because this game is lame with everyone lurking.
So you don't even care? Blech, after that first day, it comes down to this. This is just sad, really.
Scum, you made a good call when you killed Alexhans. The WIFOM is so not worth how he'd be kicking everybody into talking and yelling at everyone to talk more. Really, I think you should lynch the lurkers here. Nobody else is even going to talk, what's the point?
Post by: webadict on October 16, 2009, 09:22:31 pm
You're still not convincing me you're town...3/4 chance that you're scum, Mr. Person. There are 4 confirmed townies, and 4 unknowns. You are an unknown. There are 3 scum.
So you're just going to sit back and randomly lynch? You guys, of all people, should know just how stupid that is. Scumhunt, come on. If you think I'm scum for something, ask me why you I did that. Now you may be asking why I'm not asking other people questions, that would probably be because I'd be pushing Cheeetar and Zaithemaster, but, you know, they're confirmed, so that's not going to happen. Beyond those two, I'm really at a loss as to who would be a good lynch. I still hold that Dakarian is town, but with 3 scum, I guess that's not possible.
Dakarian, please PM everybody who you think is scum and why, please. It would be useful to know.I'm trying not to rolefish. I don't know anything, and I would like to keep it that way, minus the info I asked you. Like I said, you're free not to answer that question, if you want. Since you didn't, I'll just assume you don't want to answer that one. No biggie, I wouldn't answer it in your position either.Pretty much hope that you don't. :P
Ok, when I flip town, what's your game plan after that?
Because this game is lame with everyone lurking.
So you don't even care? Blech, after that first day, it comes down to this. This is just sad, really.
Scum, you made a good call when you killed Alexhans. The WIFOM is so not worth how he'd be kicking everybody into talking and yelling at everyone to talk more. Really, I think you should lynch the lurkers here. Nobody else is even going to talk, what's the point?
Post by: Cheeetar on October 17, 2009, 12:39:10 am
Post by: Leafsnail on October 18, 2009, 02:30:11 pm
Post by: webadict on October 18, 2009, 02:34:46 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on October 18, 2009, 03:23:24 pm
Post by: dakarian on October 18, 2009, 05:05:38 pm
Vote Mr. Person
Give web a cookie if he's right. Give the mafia a cookie if he's wrong.
Post by: Mr.Person on October 18, 2009, 05:12:29 pm
Well, finally get to show my cat's face. You expect a WOT. This is all that'll come.
Vote Mr. Person
Give web a cookie if he's right. Give the mafia a cookie if he's wrong.
Just because you say that you're bandwagoning doesn't make it ok.
Post by: Zai on October 20, 2009, 08:43:13 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on October 21, 2009, 12:01:28 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on October 21, 2009, 02:14:09 pm
Quote
Diakron: Zai
Mr.Person: Webadict, Cheeetar, ToonyMan, Dakarian
Post by: Leafsnail on October 21, 2009, 02:46:07 pm
Before anyone can stop him, the bullet drives home through webadicts skull. At almost the same moment, a bolt of lightening leaps from the computer, striking Mr.Person dead. You rush towards the body of webadict first, and fianlly remember from seeing his dead body that he was, in fact, Archcherub, and hotel aligned.
Quote
Long hated for constant lurking, you now seek to prove 'em all wrong! Unfortunately, the other players are weary of you, and have slapped a penalty on you. You will not get a known role. Good luck convincing the other players that this is the case.You see that Mr.Person has dropped a note on the floor... it seems to be the note containing his role and alignment! It looks like he showed it to webadict just before he died. The note seems to indicate that he was Jetpigeon, and Hotel aligned.
Quote
As a new and inexperienced player, the other players do not take you very seriously. This means complacency, however, and after dark you will receive a list of all the roles who voted for you yesterday (though not who has which). This ability will not work if you were lynched.Worried about the loss of two hotel players, you begin to head to bed, but suddenly realise that Zaithemaster and Dakarian are not with you! You look over at the other end of the room, and see Zaithemaster strangling Dakarian. Dakarian attempts to struggle, but Zaithemaster seems to grip with the strength of a man gone insane. It seems that Zaithemaster is ChAoTiCjIm!He also seems to be mumbling something about his great Gods... could Zaithemaster be a CULTIST?
Quote
You are ChAoTiCjIm. Lurkers. Lurkers! LURKERS! You hate them with a passion. You may strangle someone each night, but only if they've made 2 or fewer posts in the previous day.Zaithemaster drops Dakarian to the floor, with a triumphant look on his face. "Run..." whispers Dakarian, "It's over... please save yourselves! Leave Mrs.Human here to die!" His strangulation by Zai seems to indicate that he was also a town aligned player.
Quote
Man, the stress of lylo is just too much for you! However, you've been taking assertiveness classes, and you think you can handle it now. Unfortunately, this newfound assertiveness means that you cannot unvote during lylo.Wait, this means... 5 people. 3 scum. Cheeetar puts his hands in the air. "Fine!" he says, "I'll something something to you. Please just don't something something me!!" He attempts to something out of the room, but is cut short as a large piece of spinning wood strikes him in the upper body, causing it to collapse in a lump of gore! From his vagueness and running-ness, it seems he was the hotel aligned Arg.
Quote
You are Arg. You are often vague and unhelpful. Every night you may pm me somebody's name. You will then something something them.The computer quickly prints off a sheet of paper, which reads:
Quote
Note: Arg is in fact a Secret Watcher, capable of determining who visits someone's room every night.You turn in the direction that the piece of wood came from, and you see Chaoticjosh. Or, rather, the space which was occupied with Chaoticjosh but which now contains an Elf... clearly part of the mafia. Your newfound memories of the events of day one inform you that he is Cobrarsenic.
Quote
You are Cobrarsenic. Man, that went badly. Really badly. That day may have cost your side the game. However, you have an ace up your sleeve - when you are lynched, the day will reset back to its start, exactly how it was before. All actions done that day will be reset, as will all votes, and a new deadline will be set for the end of the day. This ability activates before you or any other evening kills roleflip, and it can only activateToonyMan looks around grimly. "Well, I guess this entire thing was my fault. After all, who created the programme?" He sighs deeply. "Funny how inventions can come back to bite you like this. It wouldn't be fair for me to survive now." The hotel aligned Methilestesas looks resigned to his fate.seven timesonce.
Quote
As a respected player, you are a magnet for Night Actions, from both a suspicious town and a worried mafia. Once per game, during the night phase, you may activate your ability. All night actions performed that night will happen to you instead of to their original targets.Diakron's skills at disguise and stealth are not needed. He approaches Methilestesas from in front, while morphing into a terrible Doppelganger. Methilestesas puts on a weak smile, and says:
"See you in hell, Leafslug"
Quote
You are Leafslug. As game mod you get two known roles rather than one. It is up to you whether to tell everyone both of them or not.Leafslug smiles, a disgusting, evil smile, and rams his claws home without saying a word. Methilestesas is killed instantly, giving him no more time to reflect on the monster he created.
Game over. Diakron, Mephansteras, Chaoticjosh and Zai win. In case you were wondering, todays mislynch meant 7 players/ 3 scum, and the scum's 2 NKs (one by Zai, one by Dak or Josh) would've brought it to 5 players/ 3 scum. So I decided to go for a dramatic ending, with all roleflips made as part of the story. I hope you enjoyed it, and sorry about the rather inactive ending.
More info about roles, chats, actions and stuff will be posted shortly.
Post by: Leafsnail on October 21, 2009, 02:49:07 pm
Deadchat (laughably inactive, due to no medium type roles. Oh well, never mind):
http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/sKNHrJmuKf7
Scumchat (see Chaoticjosh's day one posts if you want a good laugh):
http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/yEjqrpmaNc2G
Role pms and night actions coming shortly.
Post by: webadict on October 21, 2009, 02:50:41 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on October 21, 2009, 02:51:18 pm
Crazy scum team.
Post by: Leafsnail on October 21, 2009, 02:52:49 pm
Post by: webadict on October 21, 2009, 02:53:08 pm
Question, webadict: What made you think Zai was confirmed town?Probably the fact I didn't care any more.
Post by: Mephansteras on October 21, 2009, 02:53:12 pm
Post by: dakarian on October 21, 2009, 03:07:47 pm
Zaith fooled everyone it seems. Diakron is just plain hard to read overall :P.
Post by: Leafsnail on October 21, 2009, 03:16:13 pm
Still not much consolation, I guess.
Post by: Frelock on October 21, 2009, 03:45:27 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on October 21, 2009, 03:49:59 pm
This scum chat is impressive. I'm very impressed by the work the scum did.
I guess that's why this game was so long, huh? Three cunning, manipulative scum playing all angles, causing extraordinary amounts of infighting and misdirection, purposefully lengthening the discussion to tire everyone out, and then their partner Diakron.
That was an interesting game to watch, even if I mostly skimmed over all the walls of text.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 21, 2009, 04:10:03 pm
Scum decided to kill me Night 1. I feel so special.
Post by: dakarian on October 21, 2009, 04:26:19 pm
O.o
Post by: Mr.Person on October 21, 2009, 04:29:55 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on October 21, 2009, 04:30:21 pm
Post by: Zai on October 21, 2009, 04:41:01 pm
Three cunning, manipulative scum playing all angles
lulwut
I wasn't cunning or manipulative. Had web actually listened to Cheeetar, my "confirmed" townieness in his eyes would have been ruined. I tried to play this game like I was town, but I still ended up too passive (which some townies commented on). I held back on being as aggressive as I normally am, because I did have something to lose as scum; as town after my death, my suspicions could be given more weight than while I was alive; as scum after death, my actions might incriminate my scum buddies. My passiveness could probably be explained away with my sickness, though. Speaking of being sick, that probably helped get what little pressure there was off of me. When I said I was sick, people kind of backed away. I was legitimately sick though; it wasn't an excuse to get less scrutiny or something.
Dakarian complying with Web's order of 1 post only helped us win sooner. He apparently didn't think of me (ChaoticJim) being scum and having a mislynch during the day letting us win. As Leafsnail commented in the scum chat, ChaoticJim was actually a better role for us this game than a regular vigilante role would have been. On Day 3 I believe it was, the 0-2 posts per day requirement for the kill kept me from killing Diakron as Web had wanted (Diakron had posted 3 times), which might have slightly affected people's suspicions.
The one thing I regret somewhat: being on a scum team with Josh and not having a massive argument. We meant to...but never got around to doing it. Circumstances weren't right, and we didn't really need to; it would have just prolonged the game, it turns out. It was just supposed to be the ultimate HA! type thing. Speaking of which, Josh wanted to be the killer of Web in the night (revenge or something), but Leafsnail didn't go with that in the flavor text, instead having M.P kill the organizer of his execution. =X
If I weren't scum, I would have still gone after Diakron. I thought he was just so obvious, it was ridiculous.
[Pre-Post Edit:] M.P, you weren't at fault as much as Web. Web wasted his confirmed townieness, something no single townie's mistakes can compare to. The overall bandwagon mentality was pretty damn terrible, though, and that was the majority of the town. As I said at one point, people shouldn't just go with a confirmed townie, they should have suspicions of their own. We might have lost if they had~
Post by: Leafsnail on October 21, 2009, 04:45:10 pm
Quote
Speaking of which, Josh wanted to be the killer of Web in the night (revenge or something), but Leafsnail didn't go with that in the flavor text, instead having M.P kill the organizer of his execution. =XWell, no, webadict performed sepukku after he realized the town was about to lose. Yes, the final flavour was a bit over the top, but it seemed better than just posting a list :P.
Post by: Zai on October 21, 2009, 04:46:30 pm
QuoteSpeaking of which, Josh wanted to be the killer of Web in the night (revenge or something), but Leafsnail didn't go with that in the flavor text, instead having M.P kill the organizer of his execution. =XWell, no, webadict performed sepukku after he realized the town was about to lose. Yes, the final flavour was a bit over the top, but it seemed better than just posting a list :P.
Oh...I guess I got confused then. <.<
Post by: JoshuaFH on October 21, 2009, 05:11:28 pm
And seriously, no comments on my evil speech?
This what probably my best play yet. Had WA made the connection in the last day that I was lurking BECAUSE I wasn't afraid of getting Chaoticjim'd, then he might have got us. He never did though, relieving since it was my biggest mistake probably.
Post by: Alexhans on October 21, 2009, 05:28:54 pm
Seriously. I was honestly frustrated with you web. If it wasn't for the fact that I was scum I'd have been even more frustrated. One of the best scum-hunters on the site becomes confirmed townie and you barely do anything with it? Such a waste.Yep... It had happened to me too... Get frustrated at town even thought Im scum...
Josh pulled a risky gambyt and was only able to win due to the excesive amount of lurkers and the fact that our confirmed townie never tried to win this game. We had ALL the information. Who was each role. This was pretty much broken... But lack of effort leads to our demise.
I thought Josh was town because I thought Webadict would've watched him eventually... He was the perfect guy to make the kills.
Zai didn't have to do anything. Really.
Meph was good at the beginning but his mildness made him scummy. He wasn't really trying. He was pretending to lurker hunt with me but without going all the way.
Now you understand why we can't have people lurking. If we allow people to lurk we will have no info on them and the active lurkers will not be bothered.
There was NO talk at all at the end of the day.
Mr.Person was town, eh? Dakarian was too, eh? Impressive, right? The Wall of posters... the ones who REALLY cared... Were all town.
EDIT: Mod... We need the list of actions that happened each night please...
Also... Was Diakron not lynched??? Seriously guys... he was scummy.
Post by: Zai on October 21, 2009, 05:34:21 pm
Also... Was Diakron not lynched??? Seriously guys... he was scummy.
I KNOW, RIGHT? He was so obvious!
Post by: ToonyMan on October 21, 2009, 05:42:15 pm
Also... Was Diakron not lynched??? Seriously guys... he was scummy.
I KNOW, RIGHT? He was so obvious!
Hah, the one time I don't go for a Diakron day 1 lynch, he's scum. :-P
I honestly didn't want to bother with his general scumminess in EVERY game.
Post by: Mephansteras on October 21, 2009, 05:46:39 pm
There was just too much to go through, to read, to pay attention to. I spent hours coming up with the lists and whatnot that I provided. Even if I was town, I'm not sure I would have been up to doing much more. Especially since most of my time was spent poking the true lurkers and trying to get them to play (or lynched, but that was a bonus).
Post by: dakarian on October 21, 2009, 06:55:26 pm
What burnt was the bandwagons later on. D2 actually hurt more than helped since scumhunting led us nowhere and the bandwagon appeal worked. After that, no one wanted to do anything. Since it was aimed at me, the only thing I could do was keep from becoming a mislynch.
The last day I knew you were lurking, Josh. I kept bugging web about it. "I REALLY want josh to talk, web." "Why isn't he here?" I even asked Leaf to go prod you. In the end, I asked web is I could vote for Josh or if I should just go for Person. Web said I should vote for Person. There wasn't much else for me to do at that point :/.
To be true though, even if I had some of you, I never guessed Zaith. He was just clean all over whether I listened to web or looked on my own. The town was just doomed. :P
Post by: Mephansteras on October 21, 2009, 07:02:04 pm
Meth
*smack* Bad dakarian!
Post by: Zai on October 21, 2009, 07:03:03 pm
Zaith
ZAI. I even got my name changed by Toady specifically so this would not happen again.
To be true though, even if I had some of you, I never guessed Zaith. He was just clean all over whether I listened to web or looked on my own. The town was just doomed. :P
=D
Post by: dakarian on October 21, 2009, 07:30:42 pm
AKK. Sowwy.
@Zai
I actually liked calling you Zaithe.
Post by: webadict on October 21, 2009, 07:36:49 pm
Post by: webadict on October 21, 2009, 07:45:22 pm
It's monotony gone wild. If there was no PMing? Yes. Awesome. I don't have to secretly hold meetings everywhere with everyone. There's no hiding.
But that's not the case. I came back to life and then completely hated the fact that I did.
I hope no game ever contains them again on this forum. Like PARANORMAL does every other one. That makes me angry. Don't make me rant anymore.
Post by: Mephansteras on October 21, 2009, 07:47:21 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on October 21, 2009, 07:49:15 pm
Confirmed townies will never happen.
Post by: JoshuaFH on October 21, 2009, 08:07:43 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on October 21, 2009, 08:09:08 pm
Funny how giving the town a CT was such a good idea.
GLOAT GLOAT GLOAT GLOAT GLOAT.
Post by: JoshuaFH on October 21, 2009, 08:10:06 pm
Funny how giving the town a CT was such a good idea.
GLOAT GLOAT GLOAT GLOAT GLOAT.
I deserve it Toony and you KNOW IT! GLOAT GLOAT GLOAT!
Post by: dakarian on October 21, 2009, 08:18:20 pm
It's doubt that keeps a game interesting. Once something becomes 100% the thrill is gone.
Post by: Leafsnail on October 22, 2009, 09:45:25 am
Post by: Cheeetar on October 22, 2009, 09:59:26 am
Edit: Goddamnit Webadict.
Post by: Alexhans on October 23, 2009, 03:16:52 pm
I stopped caring when I became a CT. It's lame when you direct everyone. I just didn't care.Bullshit man... You called me scum when I told you I was going to keep scumhunting as opposed to just waggon Meph even if I knew he was scum...
You made everyone follow you and then felt the burden.
also... free pming sucks... It has been sucking for a long time now. There should not be free pming because once there is a confirmed townie this happens. I've told you this a long time ago. I think we've learned the lesson by now.
Funny how giving the town a CT was such a good idea.You were lucky it was not me...
Post by: Leafsnail on October 23, 2009, 03:44:03 pm
Post by: dakarian on October 23, 2009, 03:50:15 pm
Now, A LOT of scum don't use it...but there you go.
One thing, though, not allowing free PMing will make masons available, since they get free PM access like the scum do. They bypass the CT issue since, while they are confirmed to each other, the rest of the town isn't so sure of them.
In any case, PMing is ok. CTs aren't the end of the world. the problem is the combined. If you free PM, you have to make sure CTs can't exist. If you don't allow PMs, that's not an issue.
Post by: Leafsnail on October 23, 2009, 03:53:07 pm
Post by: dakarian on October 23, 2009, 03:57:54 pm
Masons = confirmed townies that can speak to each other via PM
Neighbors = people that can speak to each other freely, but with no one confirmed (aka, some MAY be scum)
Convertable Neighbor group = a townie that can, each night, invite a person into their group. It's a 'neighbor' group since the person can join regardless of alignment
And that's the more normal settings. Once you go crazy, the mess can really go wild.
Post by: Mephansteras on October 23, 2009, 04:01:46 pm
While I plan on continuing to run Paranormal that way, I'm not sure if it even makes sense for most games to have free PMing in place.
Post by: Leafsnail on October 23, 2009, 04:07:37 pm
And each scum player got a different explanation for the QuickTopic. I believe Meph's was "Secret Ninja Powahs".
Post by: ToonyMan on October 23, 2009, 04:09:06 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on October 23, 2009, 04:10:20 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on October 23, 2009, 04:10:49 pm
I had a bad experience with QuickTopic. AKA Screw you Watcher.Yeah, screw me. Wait, why were you trying to trick me again, Toony?
Post by: ToonyMan on October 23, 2009, 04:12:54 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on October 23, 2009, 04:14:41 pm
Post by: dakarian on October 23, 2009, 06:42:40 pm
As for other games, its a case by case basis. I keep PMs out of the BMs but never had a problem with them in Religious.
You just have to balance it since it's a pro-town action.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 21, 2009, 02:30:47 pm
This one isn't in the first post. I wonder why.QuoteYou are Leafslug. As game mod you get two known roles rather than one. It is up to you whether to tell everyone both of them or not.
Post by: Leafsnail on November 21, 2009, 05:56:23 pm
Quote
You are Leafslug. As game mod you get two known roles rather than one. It is up to you whether to tell everyone both of them or not.Fixed.
You also have an extra, secret ability. An ability so amazingly secret that the person who gets your role pm won't know it. So secret that neither do you, or the other players when you die. Even at the end of the game noone will know about this ability.
This ability means your role will not appear in the OP until a player, looking back through the thread for meta tells, points this out.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 21, 2009, 05:58:57 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on November 21, 2009, 06:04:00 pm
Actually, the fact that all roles basically become known in this kindof setup made the Leafslug role pretty pointless, even in the hands of scum. Meh.