In dwarves, dwarven dwarfism, while considerably dwarfy, make combat rolls less favorable. This is hardly noticeable with edged attacks, but considerably so with blunt weapons. It oddly doesn't affect punching/kicking that badly according to VerdantSF.
For animals it means 2 things. 1. Makes them butcher for less bones, meat, organs, and fat. 2. Considerably weakens their combat capabilities, since damage is directly linked to size.
For everyone it also reduces amount of fall damage taken. If you're landing on someone/something though you kinda wanna be bigger for extra damage.
For players the affects range anywhere from indifference, amazement, and even to frothing at the mouth from rage that a bug this big could exist this long.
It doesn't appear to affect the dwarf's ability to wear Dwarf sized armor interestingly enough.
In summary, it appears that unit growth is intended to be recalculated once per day (and offset by the time of day the creature was born), but there's a further restriction that it only does that check once every 10 ticks, so if the creature's birth time is not a multiple of 10 ticks, its size does not properly get updated.
Type Size Attack Attack type Contact Area Penetration Velocity
----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----
Mace 800 Bash Blunt 20 -200 2.0x
War Hammer 400 Bash Blunt 10 -200 2.0x
Whip 100 Lash Blunt 1 -10 5.0xLooking at this, I interprete that the Mace is able to deal SIGNIFICANTLY more damage, while the War Hammer is a more specialized weapon that will be better vs heavier armor.
Do dwarves continue to grow after childhood?No. I'm pretty sure when dwarves reach adulthood at age 12 they get the body size they're stuck with for the rest of their life.
I'm really surprised that he's actually stronger than the macedwarf. She cleans house with her steel mace.Perhaps that's the difference between a mace and a hammer on unarmored (most goblins are pretty much unarmored) foes?
And while the overall body size is chosen once, I'm under the impression that muscle built up with exercising strength (which you can do, continue building up strength itself through practice) does carry weight -- but that's probably irrelevant here, completely secondary to the strength itself. (I recall this from a discussion of vampire bugs. Er, bugged vampires, not mosquitoes. The story goes that because a vampire gets a buff to his strength regardless of muscle size the increased strength from exercise was negligible or nonexistant [they were already near max or something, or maybe it was a relative thing] whereas the increased muscle size was not, and increased muscle size meant increased weight, and increased weight without proportionally increased stength meant that the vampires slowed down as they should have been getting even stronger. I don't know if this was ever fixed... should probably dig up the discussion and/or bug report and find out.)You might be right about that. I remember a thread about somebody intentionally zombifying pigs in order to give them more muscles so he could harvest more meat from them. I don't remember if it worked or not. The overall conclusion was buried under a whole lot of dead dwarves...
You might be right about that. I remember a thread about somebody intentionally zombifying pigs in order to give them more muscles so he could harvest more meat from them. I don't remember if it worked or not. The overall conclusion was buried under a whole lot of dead dwarves...That was Loud Whispers I think, and I believe it was successful.
See: Bacon Like a ProNow with links! (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=113638.0)
I find the differences in the compared combat logs are mainly due to luck - the weaker hammerdwarf was tackling a kobold fighter who was actually fighting back, while the stronger one was merely bashing up a prone and disabled kobold civilian. The stronger one got _one_ meaningful hit - the spine-smasher - which didn't cause the kobold to lose hold of equipment or fall down (i.e., the kobold was already disarmed and on the ground).
Why don't you post the unlucky hammerdwarf's personal description? I wonder if there's something in his personality or physical characteristics that's a problem. Muscles can be trained, but some dwarves are simply very tiny or short and can never attain the size of the bigger guys. I believe that puts a hard upper bound on their abilities. It could also be a personality thing, like he's too easily stressed out.
Lost an eye in a childhood injury? Heavily scarred bashing arm? Asthma?
Nope, no mummies.If he is a migrant, is it possible he could have encountered one prior to arriving at your fort? Does that even happen to non-adventurers? How would you be able to tell? Does it show up in legends?
Nope, no mummies.If he is a migrant, is it possible he could have encountered one prior to arriving at your fort? Does that even happen to non-adventurers? How would you be able to tell? Does it show up in legends?
Nope, no mummies.If he is a migrant, is it possible he could have encountered one prior to arriving at your fort? Does that even happen to non-adventurers? How would you be able to tell? Does it show up in legends?
The only other thing to do is to give him a nice ☼steel mace☼, train him up in that, and see how he fares.
Nope, no mummies.If he is a migrant, is it possible he could have encountered one prior to arriving at your fort? Does that even happen to non-adventurers? How would you be able to tell? Does it show up in legends?
I'm really starting to suspect that the sympathy trait might be the culprit.Modify it with dfhack and see if there is a difference. Should be easy to modify one of Vjek's scripts to suit your needs.
If you can use the script in the arena to duplicate their stats it might be easier !!science!! wise and give a more controlled environment.Yeah, I'm going to be sure to record his stats in case something happens. And I'd like to try replicating him in the arena and seeing if I get the same issues. If not, then there must be something I missed or something about his history I couldn't replicate.
So he can hit, but he can't kill? I actually may have a solution for you.But the question is why.
Give him a sword! I believe it's faster, and it can cut AND hurt.
So he can hit, but he can't kill? I actually may have a solution for you.But the question is why.
Give him a sword! I believe it's faster, and it can cut AND hurt.
So he can hit, but he can't kill? I actually may have a solution for you.But the question is why.
Give him a sword! I believe it's faster, and it can cut AND hurt.
Wow, I see what you mean. A huge ambush of elves (still not all dead), so far he has 1 kill, still working on another. The macedwarf on the other hand managed I think 10 kills. This is after modifying his personality.
So far, change in sympathy is showing no better results.
EDIT: In fact, that elf escaped...
EDIT:I made him legendary in all skills, no improvement.
I believe the conclusion is now obvious: this "unlucky" "dwarf" is actually an elf spy! Using a near-perfect disguise (ie. he grew a beard and wore a hat over his ears), he has infiltrated your military, and is plotting the downfall of your fortress!!! ...through trees!! ...or something. But his weakness and sympathy for other living things has given him away!The thing is, I gave him attributes that should have made extremely formidible. It took near godlike physical attributes just for him to kill an elf! If I had made the same modifications to another dwarf, he might be punching through bronze collusi's abdomens and ripping dragons heads off with his teeth!
The only way to know for sure is to put him through the test of MAGMA!!!
Any mods I should be aware of?
My best guess so far, is that his previous injuries dampen is strength. While his strength was stored as 2300(?) that injury might have caused his (observable) strength to be lower.
That's the best I can think of. Maybe someone else will come up with something better.My best guess so far, is that his previous injuries dampen is strength. While his strength was stored as 2300(?) that injury might have caused his (observable) strength to be lower.
Perhaps the wounds are technically still there, but aren't being displayed, thus giving him a massive, but hidden negative modifier to strength. That might explain why, when maxed out, his performance improves, but still remains far below his arena clone.
have you all ruled out the personality values as a factor?Pretty much, yeah.
Their body sizes are the same, as are the weapon skills.The newer versions of splinterz' branch don't read body size, displaying all dwarves as 60000. You can find an older version, or use DFHack's getbloodcount function and then multiply the result by 10 for true body size.
Edem is too small to have brain, kidneys, spleen, sweetbread, tripe, liver, heart, or lungsI think I see the problem.
Dang, and I had just set up a blog to chronicle a natural-reproduction fort, and played out the first year. This is a pretty serious bug.
Hmm, it might explain the less than stellar performance of large squads of war animals - if you have many, most of them will be born in the fort, and with the lack of growth, they'd remain cub/pup-sized forever. And size is the main factor in determining an animal's combat efficiency.Good point! I stopped making new war grizzlies after seeing how poorly they did in combat.
Is this one (plus the fort-born animals issue) in the bug tracker? I'm terrible at using that thing.
Would be nice to have this one knocked out in the next release.
Here's the bugtracker entryOops, I meant to post the link. Heheh, thanks. I need some caffeine this morning!
Here's the bugtracker entryOops, I meant to post the link. Heheh, thanks. I need some caffeine this morning!
By the way, for midget warriors, I strongly suggest spears. I love spears, and always equip my military with them. This explains why my military is more effective than most...Don't they get a to-hit penalty if the weapon is multigrasp for them? The minimum size for wielding spears 1-handed is larger than my mini-dwarves :(.
By the way, for midget warriors, I strongly suggest spears. I love spears, and always equip my military with them. This explains why my military is more effective than most...Don't they get a to-hit penalty if the weapon is multigrasp for them? The minimum size for wielding spears 1-handed is larger than my mini-dwarves :(.
People, please examine your own savegames/forts to see if this is a widespread bug. We appear to have a case of Dwarfism.How? I don't understand how you got dwarves to be butchered, and what is this "blood_max" script? It doesn't seem to be part of DFHack.
That means fortress-born dwarfs are pretty much useless for military?I'm still testing, but it looks like Edem II can keep up with the big dwarves when he's using a short sword. He still gets the odd bruise here and there with the blade of the sword, where the other swordsdwarves only bruise when they pommel strike. Other than that, he's able to sever arteries and chop off limbs without too much trouble. Certainly better than when he was using blunt weapons. On a side note, Edem II is rocketing up the levels in each new weapon he trains with. I don't use danger rooms, but I think the combination of his student skill and the fortress commander's teaching skill are making the levels a breeze. Once he hits 20 in short swords, I'll switch him over to spears and monitor his progress with those. He's on track to be the first dwarf in my fort to reach legendary in all native weapon skills :).
That means fortress-born dwarfs are pretty much useless for military?I'm still testing, but it looks like Edem II can keep up with the big dwarves when he's using a short sword. He still gets the odd bruise here and there with the blade of the sword, where the other swordsdwarves only bruise when they pommel strike. Other than that, he's able to sever arteries and chop off limbs without too much trouble. Certainly better than when he was using blunt weapons. On a side note, Edem II is rocketing up the levels in each new weapon he trains with. I don't use danger rooms, but I think the combination of his student skill and the fortress commander's teaching skill are making the levels a breeze. Once he hits 20 in short swords, I'll switch him over to spears and monitor his progress with those. He's on track to be the first dwarf in my fort to reach legendary in all native weapon skills :).
local this = dfhack.gui.getSelectedUnit()
print("Birth year: " .. this.relations.birth_year)
print("Blood: " .. this.body.blood_max)3. Select a dwarf.Now, how to find out whether a dwarf is a migrant or natural-born citizen...
The results so far have been pretty staggering. Of the dwarves who I can tell whether or not they are migrants, the smallest migrant has 4440 bloods. The largest natural-born dwarf so far has only 917!
The average for migrants seems to be around 5700. The average for natural-born dwarves is somewhere around 660!
The average for migrants seems to be around 5700. The average for natural-born dwarves is somewhere around 660!Wow, they're so tiny! That puts their height (assuming average cubic volume) around half that of the migrants.
The profile screen tells you when they were born and who their parents are, but not WHERE they were born. However, it does tell you if they are former members of any groups. So far, it looks like all migrants are former members of other groups, and all natural-born dwarves are not. But I'm not sure if that is a hard and fast rule. Ie. is it possible to get a migrant who is not a former member of any other groups?Now, how to find out whether a dwarf is a migrant or natural-born citizen...I'm fairly certain it says so in their profile screen. It describes where they were born, and when.
If so, you should be able to easily extract that info ONCE you know what variable controls that.
Yeah... I have no idea how DFHack operates :(Me either. I just copied a script about butchering, and removed all the parts except the bit I needed.
snip
Another way to do this is to separate by birth year, which should be an easy variable to extract. Just find everyone who was born after the fort was founded. I'm pretty sure dwarves do NOT get born off-stage once worldgen ends.Is that true? It seems like if that is the case, a long-lasting fortress could cause the civilization to go extinct. But I guess that is kinda what happened to Deathgate (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84451.0)... although I figured that was just a case of them killing off the migrants faster than they could be replaced.
Another way to do this is to separate by birth year, which should be an easy variable to extract. Just find everyone who was born after the fort was founded. I'm pretty sure dwarves do NOT get born off-stage once worldgen ends.Is that true? It seems like if that is the case, a long-lasting fortress could cause the civilization to go extinct. But I guess that is kinda what happened to Deathgate (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84451.0)... although I figured that was just a case of them killing off the migrants faster than they could be replaced.
fort-born dwarfs range from 500-1000.Lol! We have adult dwarves who are smaller than cats!
imported cats range from 400-600 blood
local this = dfhack.gui.getSelectedUnit()
print("Birth year: " .. this.relations.birth_year)
print("Blood: " .. this.body.blood_max)local this = dfhack.gui.getSelectedUnit()
if this.relations.birth_year < 310 then
print("Migrant")
else
print("Natural-born")
end
print("Birth year: " .. this.relations.birth_year)
print("Blood: " .. this.body.blood_max)Replace 310 with the year you're fort was founded.I can't believe we've been playing with dwarves the size of cats without knowing it for so long...
I really do hope we can get size as a fully displayed attribute one day.I wonder if Toady will be fixing this bug in the next bug fixing round. Although I never deal with in-bred dwarves because of the short nature of my forts, I can't stand the thought!
I wonder if Toady will be fixing this bug in the next bug fixing round. Although I never deal with in-bred dwarves because of the short nature of my forts, I can't stand the thought!I doubt he's heard of it yet. It's only being discovered right now! So unless he's reading this thread today, he hasn't seen it.
Perhaps if we modded children to have the same size as full grown dwarves...
| Name | Status | Blood count | Description |
| Endok Channeleddweller | Native | 550 | Tall and very fat |
| Lolor Acewalls | Native | 747 | fat |
Edit: Maybe edit the thread title, to help bring it to Toady/community attention? Like, "[BUG: NEOTENOUS DWARVES]".I'm not sure a title requiring a trip to a medical dictionary is necessarily the most useful way of getting attention.
Edit: Maybe edit the thread title, to help bring it to Toady/community attention? Like, "[BUG: NEOTENOUS DWARVES]".I'm not sure a title requiring a trip to a medical dictionary is necessarily the most useful way of getting attention.
The most worrisome thing to me is that it affects everything... my rocs included... :(Lol! Miniature Rocs! Aka. normal birds!
Edit: Maybe edit the thread title, to help bring it to Toady/community attention?
The most worrisome thing to me is that it affects everything... my rocs included... :(Lol! Miniature Rocs! Aka. normal birds!
How much blood do they have?
Well of course he hasn't heard it yet. The next bug fix cycle isn't happening anytime soon either.I wonder if Toady will be fixing this bug in the next bug fixing round. Although I never deal with in-bred dwarves because of the short nature of my forts, I can't stand the thought!I doubt he's heard of it yet. It's only being discovered right now! So unless he's reading this thread today, he hasn't seen it.
After all, how long have we been living with this, and it hadn't been observed at all until lately?
| Name | Status | Blood count | Description |
| Ilon Aquastockade | Immigrant | 5940 | Corpulent |
| Edem Roughnessjails | Immigrant | 6180 | Average in size |
| Avuz Anathel | Native | 505 | Corpulent |
| Etru Gembrush | Native | 482 | Strapped with massive amounts of muscle and lard |
| Solon Yellrim | Native | 397 | Average in size |
| Stukos Shinbronze | Native | 457 | Thin and scrawny |
| Zuglar Windlash | Native | 311 | Average in size |
| Fikod Inkmartyred | Native | 443 | Short and muscular |
| Cerlo Claspedtwisted | Native | 382 | Muscular |
| Morul Armorabbey | Native | 722 | Tall and skinny |
| Ast Chainedtraded | Immigrant | 4440 | Short and just incredibly fat |
| Logem Paddlesavant | Native | 721 | Short with well-defined muscles |
| Melbil Amazedmirror | Immigrant | 5700 | Corpulent |
My question is if he will fix it when he gets around to fixing bugs, as some major bugs get fixed, some don't, and this could easily straddle the line. After all, how long have we been living with this, and it (the bug) hadn't beenobservedcaught at all until lately?
Fixed: Too ambiguous. (I knew that when writing, but I didn't give myself time to rewrite like I should have)
Hopefully the DFHack team can work their magic in the meantime :). Edem II needs his growth spurt!
Shouldn't these findings be put up as a bug report? Or are we just going to wait and hope it gets noticed first instead?I believe it was, back on like page 4 or something.
Serves me right for not looking more carefully, I guess.Shouldn't these findings be put up as a bug report? Or are we just going to wait and hope it gets noticed first instead?I believe it was, back on like page 4 or something.
Does this bug affect migrant children?Not sure.
Status bloodcount
Forest spider migrant male 2760
Forest spider migrant female 4980
Forest spider native male 479
Forest spider native male 359
Forest spider native male 2940
Forest spider native male 673
Forest spider native male 90
Forest spider native male 439
Forest spider native female 5520
Forest spider native male 469
Forest spider native male 950
Forest spider native male 373
Forest spider native male 585
Unicorn invader 56400
Unicorn migrant 66600
Unicorn foal native 18706
Unicorn native 63000
Unicorn native 24372
Unicorn native 21420
Drake native 731
Drake native 562
Drake native 807
Drake native 716
Drake native 291
Drake native 412
forest spider
[SELECT_CASTE:FEMALE]
[BODY_SIZE:0:0:500]
[BODY_SIZE:1:0:20000]
[BODY_SIZE:2:0:60000]
[SELECT_CASTE:MALE]
[BODY_SIZE:0:0:200]
[BODY_SIZE:1:0:10000]
[BODY_SIZE:2:0:30000]
Drake
[BODY_SIZE:0:0:2300]
[BODY_SIZE:0:112:5000]
[BODY_SIZE:0:224:7500]
[BODY_SIZE:1:0:10000]
[BODY_SIZE:1:168:45000]
[BODY_SIZE:2:0:70000]
[BODY_SIZE:2:168:95000]
[BODY_SIZE:3:0:140000]
Born in 190 - Blood 42075(I am pretty sure this is the one that I used as the breeders)
Born in 209 - Blood 25434
Born in 211 - Blood 30069
Born in 211 - Blood 31664
Born in 210 - Blood 10198
Born in 211 - Blood 42075(this is among the newer batch of grown tigers, and I am pretty sure this is about the max bodysize for 'em or at least among it("He is gigantic and muscular.")
Born in 211 - Blood 4807(OH MY FUCKING GOD LOOK AT THAT TINY SABER TOOTH TIGER)
Born in 211 - Blood 42500(largest one yet, also among newer ones)
Born in 209 - Blood 9769
Born in 211 - Blood 39179
Born in 211 - Blood 5413
Born in 211 - Blood 41085
Born in 211 - Blood 11160
Born in 209 - Blood 40871
Born in 211 - Blood 19739
Born in 211 - Blood 9400
Born in 211 - Blood 40849
Born in 211 - Blood 45900
Born in 211 - Blood 41650
Born in 208 - Blood 16794
Born in 208 - Blood 8755
Born in 211 - Blood 15352Is this something that can be edited? Could we run a dfhack script to find dwarves born in the fort and change their body size?
This means, on average, your mayor is the size of a cat as he goes around charismatically pointing at people, shaking hands, and making the ladydwarves swoon.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Anyone else notice that we just proved the superiority of edged weapons over blunt weapons, given the improvement in combat ability of a marginal soldier. Some dwarves can kill effectively with any weapon, but other dwarves need a good pick/axe/sword before they can really cause damage.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=91166.msg4285060#msg4285060
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=91166.msg4285633#msg4285633
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=91166.msg4286965#msg4286965
Larger creature -> Blunt doesn't work as well, because you are now 'smaller' and edged weapons still work.
Having just snagged a breeding pair of alligators and birthed my first hatchlings, this thread makes me very very sad. :(
Born in 191 - Maxblood 5700
Born in 183 - Maxblood 6240
Born in 187 - Maxblood 6060
Born in 196 - Maxblood 5760
Born in 197 - Maxblood 5880
Born in 197 - Maxblood 5940
Born in 199 - Maxblood 6060Born in 212(23rd of Timber) - Maxblood 2162
Born in 212(3rd of Galena) - Maxblood 2480
Born in 212(4th of Malachite) - Maxblood 843
Born in 212(6th of Granite) - Maxblood 761Born in 212(23rd of Timber) - Maxblood 4821
Born in 212(3rd of Galena) - Maxblood 5804
Born in 212(4th of Malachite) - Maxblood 843
Born in 212(6th of Granite) - Maxblood 761The rest have steel weapons, but I thought silver was better for armor penetration, while steel had slightly more critical hits, with the overall nod to silver.I didn't read the whole ten pages, but you said you keep getting deflections. That will happen more with silver weapons, and may be what's causing the dispairity.
I didn't read the whole ten pages, but you said you keep getting deflections. That will happen more with silver weapons, and may be what's causing the dispairity.
The only way to remedy the situation somewhat was to give him an edged weapon.
Okay, after adding it that adult age is at 4 years, I noticed a bit of a change. On two of the subjects.Code: [Select]Born in 212(23rd of Timber) - Maxblood 4821
Born in 212(3rd of Galena) - Maxblood 5804
Born in 212(4th of Malachite) - Maxblood 843
Born in 212(6th of Granite) - Maxblood 761
None of them have turned peasants yet, but it is apparent that SOME creatures born in the fort grow up as they should. I have no idea why the other two however did not grow up at all, I figure they never will either.
There is nothing that I can see as odd about their parents either. 3 of the kids are the only children of the couple, the last one is the youngest daughter of a bunch of kids, the second eldest daughter living in the fort is of a perfectly fine size too. It can't be something stupid like dorf genetics, one of the baby sized kids has both parents of the usual adult dorf size.
All I will add, is that fortress-born children tend to become mayors. This is because they have no job and theyfollow their mother aroundstand around the dining hall because they're orphans. They do no work, and just loiter and chat with the other dwarves, quickly ranking social and friends, easily becoming mayor.
This means, on average, your mayor is the size of a cat as he goes around charismatically pointing at people, shaking hands, and making the ladydwarves swoon.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Well I got a few migrant kids who showed up, let's see...Code: [Select]Born in 191 - Maxblood 5700
Born in 183 - Maxblood 6240
Born in 187 - Maxblood 6060
Born in 196 - Maxblood 5760
Born in 197 - Maxblood 5880
Born in 197 - Maxblood 5940
Born in 199 - Maxblood 6060
These dorfs are currently from 18 to 25 in age, and judging by the older dorfs around, they seem to be of appropriate body size.
Okay, after adding it that adult age is at 4 years, I noticed a bit of a change. On two of the subjects.Code: [Select]Born in 212(23rd of Timber) - Maxblood 4821
Born in 212(3rd of Galena) - Maxblood 5804
Born in 212(4th of Malachite) - Maxblood 843
Born in 212(6th of Granite) - Maxblood 761
None of them have turned peasants yet, but it is apparent that SOME creatures born in the fort grow up as they should. I have no idea why the other two however did not grow up at all, I figure they never will either.
There is nothing that I can see as odd about their parents either. 3 of the kids are the only children of the couple, the last one is the youngest daughter of a bunch of kids, the second eldest daughter living in the fort is of a perfectly fine size too. It can't be something stupid like dorf genetics, one of the baby sized kids has both parents of the usual adult dorf size.
I looked at the differences between the dwarves who did grow up properly and those who didn't in a large population fort savegame. I explored various parts of the creature data using DFHack.
I found that dwarves who did grow up properly have:
unit.flags3.unk1 == True
whereas most other dwarves in the fort (including migrants) have:
unit.flags3.unk1 == False
Also, migrant dwarves who are 100+ years old have:
unit.flags3.unk1 == True
The meaning of this flag is unknown to the DFHack team, but I suspect it might be related to the problem.
I also noticed that dwarves who migrated as children are distributed between baby size and adult size according to how old they were when they arrived at the fort. This suggests that the problem is in the code that changes size on a yearly(?) basis, and not something that happens at birth.
*snip*
This is definitely NOT something that don't you want to hear about when your a newb who finally has a decent fortress, which happens to have have about 30 children/babies running around. Now I'm left with the bleak prospect of running a eugenics program to weed out the the dwarf Dwarfs in order to increase my survivability. This also makes my goat herd seem like a waste of time to maintain, since I can just buy metric shit-tons of cheese each season instead of playing musical pastures, as well as upping the amount of leather that I'm trading for.
rant
*entitled rage about goats or something*
Although to Toady's defense, we don't know how long this bug has been in, because it only now got noticed. Maybe it's been years, maybe it's been in since the last update.
Although I guess that's easy to check, just DL older versions and use DFhack in 'em to check maxblood on kids.
This is definitely NOT something that don't you want to hear about when your a newb who finally has a decent fortress, which happens to have have about 30 children/babies running around. Now I'm left with the bleak prospect of running a eugenics program to weed out the the dwarf Dwarfs in order to increase my survivability.
I have been reflecting on this, and I don't believe this affected the time period when people set up merpeople farms.
My fort is almost 40 years old,
10 deaths for 762 total kills isn't too shabby.
snip
I have been reflecting on this, and I don't believe this affected the time period when people set up merpeople farms.
You're probably right. People were going over butchering results with a fine-toothed comb back then.
I have been reflecting on this, and I don't believe this affected the time period when people set up merpeople farms.
You're probably right. People were going over butchering results with a fine-toothed comb back then.
I believe that the merfolk farm was back in 40d, and my own farming experiences in 40d make me think that animals were growing up just fine. The additional butchering products (organs, etc) were added in the following version: DF2010. DF2010 was a pretty big overhaul of the game and of bodies in particular, so my first guess is that this bug began there.
I wonder if this phenomenon is related to rabbits not producing any usable meat in the current version, as opposed to their size merely being too small?I don't think so. I'm almost positive I've slaughtered migrant rabbits and you just get no meat.
If relative size difference between combatants is so important to blunt damage (and punching is blunt damage), then choosing the correct dwarf for law enforcement could decide the fate of your fort.
2346 STR (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-WN213F06egM/UaZAJav_q7I/AAAAAAAAAwQ/WY1ap5_WBgg/s1600/2346-vs-elf.jpg): 23 hits with a masterful steel war hammer, 23 bruises, 0 serious wounds. ZERO :(. The only serious wounds he managed were from unarmed strikes.
I'm sorry to interrupt, but... am I the only one thinking this?Ha ha ha! Behold Edem II, Goblinite Miner!Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm sorry to interrupt, but... am I the only one thinking this?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Does that include accidents? my [INVADERS:NO] fort is only 7-8 years old and i've still had like 3 dozen deaths. Although I did have invaders on for a few seasons by accident and a few ambushes that I wasn't too worried about took a few lives.
YES!!!I'm sorry to interrupt, but... am I the only one thinking this?Ha ha ha! Behold Edem II, Goblinite Miner!Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Udim McCaringMother, Legendary Speardwarf, has lost an alcohol-bag-chest-mass to a battlefield injury.
Something like:Losing only one wouldn't hurt the baby. Well, it doesn't in humans. Though usually the fight we lose 'em in isn't anything near as fun as a goblin raid. :-\
Udim McCaringMother, Legendary Speardwarf, has lost an alcohol-bag-chest-mass to a battlefield injury.
Litast McHungryGrowth, Baby, has been malnourished lately.
...(1 year later)
Litast McHungryGrowth, Child, has grown up scrawny!
Funny!! But not supported by the currently SCIENCE.
But real-life science aside, I think you got a point there. Dwarf moms feed their babies and carry them around 24/7. If the dwarf mom went hungry for any appreciable time, the baby should be malnourished too, and grow up smaller. I think that would be a nice feature to add--a good reason to keep your dwarves properly fed and boozed, if you want the kids to pull their weight. And a way to control the size of the next generation. A well-fed fort should turn out big, strong dwarves; one living on the edge of starvation should have a bunch of scrawny ones.
:PUdim McCaringMother, Legendary Speardwarf, has lost an alcohol-bag-chest-mass to a battlefield injury.This is the first time in my life that I've been confused about whether someone was talking about a liver or about a boob. >=]
unit.body.physical_attr_tissues[0] -- Strength influenced size, trigger for pressure plates
unit.body.physical_attr_tissues[1] -- normal body size, Butcher product result size, blood_max equals this unless either is modified manually
unit.body.physical_attr_tissues[2] -- appears to be strength influenced contact area
unit.body.physical_attr_tissues[3] -- appears to be contact area related to normal body size
unit.body.physical_attr_tissues[4] -- appears to be strength influenced length or height
unit.body.physical_attr_tissues[5] -- appears to be a length or height related to normal body size
(yes we know that the enum names for physical_attr_tissues need to be updated):PUdim McCaringMother, Legendary Speardwarf, has lost an alcohol-bag-chest-mass to a battlefield injury.This is the first time in my life that I've been confused about whether someone was talking about a liver or about a boob. >=]
Since dwarven babies "need alcohol to get through a working day," it's only natural that female dwarves produce alcohol rather than milk.
I have finally posted version 1 of Unit Info Viewer (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=7717) which among other things, displays some body size infomation. Due to the issues with body sizes, I report 3 values. The pressure plate trigger size, which appears to be influenced by strength. Followed by the size for butcher product results (not blood_max, but blood_max equals this value, absent manual edits). And lastly a rough estimate of what the body size should be if the creature in question was growing every day according to the scale defined in the raws, but using the units-of-volumn used in game.
In my tests with blue peafowl, I have noticed that some hatch to an adult peafowl size which makes me wonder how large they would get to be if they grew with age or if there is another intermittent bug in calculating an initial size for newborns or if there is an attribute that seriously inflates the creature size. Probably the latter since I haven't noticed adult sizes on larger creature newborns
I am curious how Edem II would perform with a hammer when either of the two sizes are manually updated vs the two contact areas, vs the two length/heights. I don't have time for it right now but if anyone wants to do some tests, this is what I believe to the current understanding of the fields:Code: [Select]unit.body.physical_attr_tissues[0] -- Strength influenced size, trigger for pressure plates(yes we know that the enum names for physical_attr_tissues need to be updated)
unit.body.physical_attr_tissues[1] -- normal body size, Butcher product result size, blood_max equals this unless either is modified manually
unit.body.physical_attr_tissues[2] -- appears to be strength influenced contact area
unit.body.physical_attr_tissues[3] -- appears to be contact area related to normal body size
unit.body.physical_attr_tissues[4] -- appears to be strength influenced length or height
unit.body.physical_attr_tissues[5] -- appears to be a length or height related to normal body size
This probably means that fortress born grazers requires much smaller pastures, but how does it affect milk and wool production? Is miniature llama and sheep farming a viable industry?
Now I can actually get my elephant breeding program in full swing, just need to have a pair on site and I can have miniature elephants!
How does it affects dragons tough? They keep growing for a long time...
...
This probably means that fortress born grazers requires much smaller pastures, but how does it affect milk and wool production? Is miniature llama and sheep farming a viable industry?
...
I don't really know how you dump this kind of stuff..DFHack, Yes (unit.flags3.unk1), migrant kids don't grow either, DFHack.
but have you tried doing a full dump of a migrant kid and a full dump of a fortress born kid every year for 2 or 3 years to compare flags/values/etc to see if you can find the odd one out?
Does the migrant kid keep growing after his migrant tag wears off? (how long does that take?)
If you'd let me know how you're dumping this info, and if it's the full amount, I don't mind doing some number comparing.
The unknown flag that I noticed 2 pages ago in this thread? It resists being changed, and switches back immediately. It is a different flag from the known flags for historical figures. Maybe it only enables on dwarves over 100 years old because of some "age-100" bug in the code?
My next captain of the guard is going to be a fort-born.
the more i read through this thread, the more elated i become. i am in ecstasy. this is what DF is all about man, you guys are some bona fide scientists. i only wish i had people to talk to about this irl D:
I like to think that this forum is still populated by irl people conversing through a non-irl medium. I could be wrong though and you're all just figments of my imagination...
the more i read through this thread, the more elated i become.
A++, an amazing ride to a stunning destination.
I'm curious to see an update on this from the bug tracker. If I read the front page of Mantis correctly, it has been moved up to top priority for review.
Great info! Imagine a horde of tiny, pick-wielding dwarves dropping from a great height right on top of goblins! I'm guessing impact damage is considered blunt. Is there a risk of fatal head injuries for dwarves falling headfirst?Actually when one creature lands on top of another creature, it doesn't do any damage. The creature on the bottom just gets stunned.
Great info! Imagine a horde of tiny, pick-wielding dwarves dropping from a great height right on top of goblins! I'm guessing impact damage is considered blunt. Is there a risk of fatal head injuries for dwarves falling headfirst?Actually when one creature lands on top of another creature, it doesn't do any damage. The creature on the bottom just gets stunned.
You slam into the Cat 2!
The Cat 2 slams into an obstacle!
Cat 2's right rear leg takes the full force of the impact, bruising the bone!
Cat 2's left front leg takes the full force of the impact, bruising the bone!
Cat 2's upper body takes the full force of the impact, bruising the muscle and bruising the right lung!
Cat 2 is having trouble breathing!
Cat 2's right front leg takes the full force of the impact, bruising the bone!
Cat 2's lower body takes the full force of the impact, bruising the muscle and bruising the guts!
Cat 2 looks sick!
You slam into an obstacle!
Your right upper leg takes the full force of the impact, bruising the bone!
Your lower body takes the full force of the impact, bruising the muscle and bruising the guts!
Your left upper leg takes the full force of the impact, bruising the bone!
Your left upper arm takes the full force of the impact, jamming the bone through the left shoulder's muscle and shattering the left shoulder's bone!
Your throat takes the full force of the impact, bruising it!
Cat 2 vomits.
Cat 2 retches.
Great info! Imagine a horde of tiny, pick-wielding dwarves dropping from a great height right on top of goblins! I'm guessing impact damage is considered blunt. Is there a risk of fatal head injuries for dwarves falling headfirst?Actually when one creature lands on top of another creature, it doesn't do any damage. The creature on the bottom just gets stunned.
On the matter of weaponizing.
The size determines the fall damage. And cats and crundles tend to get away with bruises after falling even from considerable heigh.
So I guess nanodwarves should make fine paratroopers. (Well, not exactly paratroopers since you don't give them parachutes but you get the idea)
I guess that must have been fixed in a recent version. According to the wiki:when one creature lands on top of another creature, it doesn't do any damage. The creature on the bottom just gets stunned.Arena mode disagrees with you
Creatures that are dropped onto a standing creature's head will generally suffer little damage regardless of how many z-levels they fell. The unfortunate creature who broke their fall may suffer significant damage, however.
Offhandedly, are bucklers to large for midget dwarfs to wield effectively?:?
I guess I'll slaughter all those bears I've been breeding. Major letdown there. Perhaps I should just train the bears I buy and keep the midget baby bears for non-fighting tasks. At least the 'war' tag will help me keep them sorted. I am also seriously considering altering raws to make my fortress population migrant only with *NO* children. The seething waves of useless migrant children are a bane.You can wield multi-grasp weapons single handed, it just gives them a lower hit chance. Which you'll probably hardly notice. And as Sutremaine said, you can't armor up miner Dwarfs cause of a hard coded miner/woodcutter/hunter uniform. There was a work around to it found here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=f009871dfe6ea9bf9891bed6987dbe21&topic=93969.0). I tried fiddling with it last week, but it kicked my ass.
Even if pickaxes are decent for native military dwarves, they still need to multigrasp and can't weild shields too, except in the luckier cases.
Kitting out miners in armor seems like an interesting idea though. I've lost several to strange injuries when channeling away up/down staircases in groups of 3-4. Armor might go a long way to preventing this from happening. It's also had severe implications on my hunt for the perfect death trap, but that's something I knew already. Armored goblins were surving long falls with only moderate injuries.
Has there been any word about this issue from Toady? Was this discussed in DFtalk?I'm downloading the new DFtalk to see. If he did, and I'm the first to report back, I'll tell ya what was said about it.
Has there been any word about this issue from Toady? Was this discussed in DFtalk?I'm downloading the new DFtalk to see. If he did, and I'm the first to report back, I'll tell ya what was said about it.
And as Sutremaine said, you can't armor up miner Dwarfs cause of a hard coded miner/woodcutter/hunter uniform. There was a work around to it found here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=f009871dfe6ea9bf9891bed6987dbe21&topic=93969.0). I tried fiddling with it last week, but it kicked my ass.
I guess I'll slaughter all those bears I've been breeding. Major letdown there.
Even if pickaxes are decent for native military dwarves, they still need to multigrasp and can't weild shields too, except in the luckier cases.
It doesn't appear to affect the dwarf's ability to wear Dwarf sized armor interestingly enough.
Maybe it's a weird trait bug? Or, possibly a small window of opportunity where it thinks about growing up critters. what is the birthday of those Dwarves that did grow up properly? Maybe adamantine is slightly radioactive and is having a profound effect on our dwarves several generations later. Maybe the world is such a bleak place no one wants to grow up? 31.25 didn't have the problem, yes? So, what may have been changed that may relate to growing?
I have been reflecting on this, and I don't believe this affected the time period when people set up merpeople farms.
You're probably right. People were going over butchering results with a fine-toothed comb back then.
I believe that the merfolk farm was back in 40d, and my own farming experiences in 40d make me think that animals were growing up just fine. The additional butchering products (organs, etc) were added in the following version: DF2010. DF2010 was a pretty big overhaul of the game and of bodies in particular, so my first guess is that this bug began there.
Yes, I agree. It's likely that this happened when Toady rewrote the bodies code in the transition from 40d to 31.xx, given that the merpeople farming was a 40d phenomenon. That was the last major time the bodies code was fiddled with on a massive scale.
The bug is annoying, but with a few simple changes, it's easily overcome.
It doesn't appear to affect the dwarf's ability to wear Dwarf sized armor interestingly enough.
If I remember correctly, that's because equipment is calculated by racial size rather than by a creature's individual size. If the wearer is not of the same race as the creator of an item, it then compares the wearer's racial size compared to the creator's racial size. If it is within an acceptable limit, then it can be worn, otherwise it will label the equipment as being too large or small. Though if you were to mod a race where there was one caste several times larger than the other, both castes could wear the same clothes. Though I may be wrong.
Back on topic, it is worth mentioning that some creatures and dwarves do grow up as intended. Though why some do and some don't is still unknown.
...
Back on topic, it is worth mentioning that some creatures and dwarves do grow up as intended. Though why some do and some don't is still unknown.
Well that's something that can definitely be investigated if some are growing up and some aren't.
Again, I'm willing to start comparing and crunching numbers if someone can tell me how they're pulling all unit info/flags/etc from dfhack
...
Well that's something that can definitely be investigated if some are growing up and some aren't.
Again, I'm willing to start comparing and crunching numbers if someone can tell me how they're pulling all unit info/flags/etc from dfhack
unit=dfhack.gui.getSelectedUnit()
if unit==nil then
print ("No unit under cursor! Aborting with extreme prejudice.")
return
end
printall(unit)The bug is annoying, but with a few simple changes, it's easily overcome.
This. One of my current forts is over 20 years now, over half of my population is trained military (about a hundred warriors), the fort is open all year round, And I have lost 1 dwarf per 200 enemies on average so far (1000+ dead goblins and ogres).
Then again, it's good that it got discovered now, closer to the end of the release cycle.
*entitled rage about goats or something*
It's Toady's and Threetoe's hobby that they happen to let other people share. If you want a game, you can find plenty here:
http://www.ea.com/
Think positively: It's just DF adjusting it's difficulty! You know, all the classic games like Tetris and Pac-Man gets harder longer you play. So does DF, because dwarves will be even more ineffective if you play longer.
It was noticed though. People have been complaining on how sucky war animals were for years, or how the meat industry never paid off. We just now know (through random luck hacking) what the problem is.
I love Toady, but these sort of bugs shouldn't just be taken in stride. These are bad, immersion breaking and overall embarrassing. This is the size of a creature were talking about, not some obscure aspect of the game.
If that bug already existed in 34.07, I have never noticed it in several decades old forts, with many fort-born dwarfs. It's really not game-breaking at all.
This is... so devastating my ability to enjoy this game now. I just cant get into any of my old forts or enjoy making a new one knowing that it gets so screwed up...
Yuck. I hope this gets fixed soon so I can play this game again :(
Let's stop this hating on DF and Toady's coding before it gets out of hand. It's understandable to be a little miffed about a bug like this in Dwarf Fortress. But it's a game, not life support. And it's not actually game-breaking, considering you can change a couple values and deal with the worst half of the problem (dwarf size). In all honesty this is just another inconvenience that DF figured out how to work past while Toady figures out how to fix it. Like always, ye of little faith.
Yes, I want this fixed as soon as possible, but I won't let one of the many, many bugs I've seen in DF ruin the experience for me. Nor will I let it fester into the apparent dislike of Toady's M.O. when it comes to coding his brainchild.
On the other hand, perhaps it was intentional and meant to nerf wrestling some more :p
Go into the raws and change the baby and child size to adult size.
Has anyone actually tested how this affects domestic birds?Edit Edit: Yeah, I've hatched about 5000 birds in the last few weeks.
Ajusting the Infant/Child sizes seems like a good workaround.
I forsee that dwarven mothers will move a LOT slower since they have to haul all that extra weight.
Which I guess is actually more realistic than drafting all the moms into the military andbirthing while in a sparring sessionmaking baby smoothies in the danger room.
so, um can somebody please post the mechanics of how to actually edit the raws for a work-around on this?
Adjusting the Infant/Child sizes seems like a good workaround.I guess they're going to turn into dreadnoughts with that: normal babies are able to stop a couple of arrows or a single strike with halberd, now imagine a meatshield of the size of an adult dwarf, also greater size would allow them to actually punch someone to death while mommy is busy swinging an axe.
I foresee that dwarven mothers will move a LOT slower since they have to haul all that extra weight.
Which I guess is actually more realistic than drafting all the moms into the military and birthing while in a sparring session.
Using a modification of kingubu's script, I confirmed that in my test sample, one out of 12 clutches are growing. I started with 3 females each (peafowl, goose, chicken, turkey) and one male each. In the second batch of eggs, again, one out of the 12 clutches are growing, but I managed to catch that clutch soon after birth and found that when they "grew" they shrank to a normal size for their age. Also, I noticed that they grow when unit.relations.birth_time mod 1200 == df.global.cur_year_tick mod 1200.
...
unit.relations.birth_time=-1
This single line of code will change a dwarf's birthday and cure them of the aging bug. Probably works for animals too (needs crowdsourced testing).Double post because solution:Code: [Select]unit.relations.birth_time=-1This single line of code will change a dwarf's birthday and cure them of the aging bug. Probably works for animals too (needs crowdsourced testing).
Double post because solution:Code: [Select]unit.relations.birth_time=-1This single line of code will change a dwarf's birthday and cure them of the aging bug. Probably works for animals too (needs crowdsourced testing).
in my few test that I have done so far, yes -1 works. however, I also found that a multiple of 1200 works. Then I found that a multiple of 10 works. All of the birds that were growing were born on a tick ending in zero. This means that we don't have to totally mess up their birth time.
I also think we need to test weather or not vampires, undead, and other not living things will grow after being fixed or will properly stay where they are. Or should they grow if they gain/lose strength or fat? Does this fix make a unit lose size when they lose a limb or other body part? Do we care?
Double post because solution:Code: [Select]unit.relations.birth_time=-1This single line of code will change a dwarf's birthday and cure them of the aging bug. Probably works for animals too (needs crowdsourced testing).
Double post because solution:Code: [Select]unit.relations.birth_time=-1This single line of code will change a dwarf's birthday and cure them of the aging bug. Probably works for animals too (needs crowdsourced testing).
Do we have to hunt and peck through each dwarf and creature to add this, and keep checking new ones?
In summary, it appears that unit growth is intended to be recalculated once per day (and offset by the time of day the creature was born), but there's a further restriction that it only does that check once every 10 ticks, so if the creature's birth time is not a multiple of 10 ticks, its size does not properly get updated.
Oh man, that sounds like what I was having trouble with a while back with all my dogs being tiny (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=119085.msg3788050#msg3788050)! I assumed at the time that I must have garbled my raws.
That seems like a pretty big issue to have been overlooked this long.
Oh man, that sounds like what I was having trouble with a while back with all my dogs being tiny (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=119085.msg3788050#msg3788050)! I assumed at the time that I must have garbled my raws.
That seems like a pretty big issue to have been overlooked this long.
It seems like we all saw the effects of the bug and simply assumed that animals were supposed to be weak. Since the chances of a player running a fort for 12+ years and only setting up their military from those dwarven children instead of the hundreds of semi-useless migrants coming in are also fairly slim, I'm not super shocked that this wasn't observed right away. We've been staring at this bug and griping about useless war animals the entire time assuming that was the intended behavior.
Hell, Verdant only found it because he was paying an abnormal amount of attention to a single dwarf for RP reasons!
Hell, Verdant only found it because he was paying an abnormal amount of attention to a single dwarf for RP reasons!
So now people need to try war animals again and see if they become awesome with the fix.
Aha. Interestingly enough, I already tend to make all my fortress-born dwarves axe wielders as a sign of status, and give hammers to the filthy migrant militia. Lucky I haven't been doing things the other way round.
There's an interesting discussion in this thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109319.0 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109319.0)) where people see effects of this bug, from about a year ago. However, they decide that it is just because they are not fully grown.Well, in a way their conclusion is the correct one. They weren't fully grown, just not for the reasons we thought at the time.
THIS explains so much, it isn't even funny.
Pressure plate problems. Bad injuries in fortress born dwarves. War animals. Non working airlocks and logic circuits. ...
So either lock down your long term fortress completely or wait for the alpha version. Or is there by any chance a fix for the Mac version?
Can this be stickied? And perhaps the title changed again? It seems pretty important.
In the new title I'd be sure to address that this effects all forts and typical makes dwarves about 1/10th of the size they should be; as well as all other creatures born in the fort. I think this is worthy of a hotfix.
In the new title I'd be sure to address that this effects all forts and typical makes dwarves about 1/10th of the size they should be; as well as all other creatures born in the fort. I think this is worthy of a hotfix.
It affects all forts, but not all fortress-born dwarves or animals. "Just" 90% of them.
Yes, the script included in LNP will fix things retroactively :). To check size, use this maxblood script (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=126558.msg4285632;topicseen#msg4285632), then multiply the result by 10 for cubic centimeters.
Has any Mac fix been developed yet? (Other than wrangling with DFHack.)
This thread has some great detective work! Many thanks to everyone who helped find and fix this.
I just downloaded and installed DFHack for the first time because my current fortress is getting old and I want to eventually rely on native-born dwarves as well as war animals and a meat industry. I ran the script, unpaused, and then something unexpected happened: My rivers thawed for the first time after playing for eight years. I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered this.
My thought - since this is supposed to be a temperate biome, and I was expecting to get freezing and thawing when I first embarked, and it rains in the spring and summer - is that the same bug that prevents critters from growing also prevents other periodic checks from succeeding, and that seasonal thawing of rivers and murky pools is one of these checks. I'm not really sure how plausible that is, but it's hard to believe the sudden thaw is a coincidence.
My thought - since this is supposed to be a temperate biome, and I was expecting to get freezing and thawing when I first embarked, and it rains in the spring and summer - is that the same bug that prevents critters from growing also prevents other periodic checks from succeeding, and that seasonal thawing of rivers and murky pools is one of these checks. I'm not really sure how plausible that is, but it's hard to believe the sudden thaw is a coincidence.Judging from descritpion of no-growth bug, sudden thawing is coincidence.
* theoretical method to observe size in-game
#3: pressure plate size limits. Either bugged like #1(?), or see #2 about fortress inhabitants usually being mostly first-generation. And I guess citizen-triggered pressure plates aren't that common, or they're set to trigger off even small children anyway.
I'm attempting to get this fix working on a pre-existing install (no LNP). I followed Okami's guide post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=126558.msg4315204#msg4315204) on how to manually add Kurik's fix via dfhack. I get the confirmation message "FixGrowth: Running" when I start DF, but as soon as I load my game, my dfhack window gets spammed with error messages going by too fast for me to read.
Well, I downloaded and installed... but now I have trouble getting rid of the graphic pack it uses as default^^
(posted here too: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124613.105 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124613.105) )
Any advice?
ajg1j12 - Looks like PeridexisErrant's latest version (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=7622) of the Lazy Newb Pack (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59026.msg1319616) already has Kurik's script installed.
If you want to apply it to an existing installation, rather than switching over your saves, follow these steps:Spoiler: Step by Step Guide (click to show/hide)
I am using the linked version of LNP from the OP,
How do I change the icon that represents dwarves back to its vanilla
I personally prefer the smilies to the golems.
I was going to post this under the Peridexis Errant thread but I couldn't find it.
(I was probably just derping with the search function)
thank you
So... does DFHack do this automatically or do I need to configure it to do so? I don't use the LNP, just installed DFhack manually.
I haven't changed any old bugs deliberately for the big release, but this one is on the menu when I start that after the bad new bug fixes.
edit: actually, the binary patch bugs like these might slip in sooner when they are as actually as easy as they appear on the surface.
edit: okay, should be in for 0.40.02.
Thanks Toady! Now there’s just the immigrant bug where their numbers drop when the units list gets too big.
Thanks Toady! Now there’s just the immigrant bug where their numbers drop when the units list gets too big.