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[Werdna]

If you are experimenting with levers, then I'd suggest learning to use basic floodgates (or small bridges, used as a floodgate) as a starter.  The cistern's distance from fort is really not a factor (except maybe in giving you time to react), its the connection to the fort that is critical.  Simple floodgates connected to a lever can help you control water flow, protect your fort, and is a great way to learn levers.  BTW, doors are waterproof too and make an easy water-break in a pinch.  Good luck, and stay dry my friend! 

[JimmyAgent007]

OK, so if I make an area (3x3 big enough?) with walls.  Then do that on the floor above after channeling.  Then on the 3rd floor I just channel.  I bucket brigade on the third floor until its full?  Will that supply forever or do I need to refill?  Make bigger?  Will it overflow if I keep it active?

OR

If I run a long tunnel down with stairs, then over to underneath my fort, into a room, channel out the floors, then vacate before flooding the whole thing, will the above ground water pressure force the water up into my fort?

Yes, im working with floodgates.  My little mini cistern is an experiment for a few things lol

I think what im doing will work but id like a safe and secure source of water that doesnt involve long rivers of water into my fort.

[Werdna]

It's hard to define what is "big enough", as that will be a function of how long you run the fort, how many dwarves you have, how often you run out of booze and the frequency of hospitalized dwarves.  Designs can run extremely complicated - current cistern technology has a number of features designed specifically to keep out certain types of swimming, building-destroying forgotten beasts.  See Pat's thread he linked.  The easiest way to dig one btw is to dig out the topmost level of the cistern, then channel down one layer at a time.

I can tell you that given what you want to work with - floodgates - that using them it is possible to simply refill the cistern if needed.  Simply add a floodgate in the tunnel between river and cistern and you can replenish it whenever you need to (when river is not frozen of course), as well as cut off the supply if you make a mistake.

It is a good idea to have the cistern lower than your fort.  This reduces flooding possibilities and is easiest for adding wells, anyway.  There is a detailed discussion of water pressure here: http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Pressure.  See the "Neutralizing Pressure" section.

[JimmyAgent007]

OK, I will experiment.  What you are saying though is that there is no size that is big enough to last forever like Minecraft. 

I will prolly have to resort to tunnels and such then.

The design of my fort is a castle, partially underground, in the middle of my map.  I want to have an empty moat around it until I find some magma.  This way if one of my external mines find something bad my main fort isnt at risk.  The trick in this case is to get water inside it in the event of an emergency.  So being able to fill a pond and never have to worry would be ideal.  Food and booze wont be an issue, already have lots of that.  Just trying to get a reliable source of water during all seasons.

[PatrikLundell]

The amount of water you put in is the amount of water that can be withdrawn (minus evaporation): there's no overflow into infinity.
The way to get unlimited water is to hook the cistern up to an unlimited supply of water (such as a river, edge connected cavern lake, or aquifer). A bucket brigade will not overfill a "pond". They'll stop when the depth is 7/7 at the top. If you don't remove the designation they'll top it up as you use the water.

[JimmyAgent007]

OK, then Im thinking that if I make a large underground pond, spend all summer filling it with water, I should have plenty for the winter.  Im ok with over engineering it.  Might take a long while to fill in the first place but would be handy in a siege or such.  Might still pipe water too it if I feel like I got a handle on things.

Now, for the moat.

Water isnt a good choice since it will freeze, so keeping it empty until I find magma is one choice but what about filling it with traps?  Can my own dwarfs walk over traps safely? should I leave spaces between them?  mix it up a bit? Couldnt find that in the wiki.  Im thinking a moat a few z-levels deep then filled with spear traps that dont need to be reloaded.  Then a single door to the bottom level to let me send people out to recover items. 

[Werdna]

Try it!  Moats are like chocolates, everyone likes a different filling.  Yes, dwarves can stand on traps safely so long as they are conscious I think.  Invaders probably won't enter the moat unless they have good reason to - that access door, in this case, would be a good reason to.  Defend it well!

Water-filled moats can be fun.  I had a siege arrive in late winter/early spring and use my frozen moat as a convenient path to get around the fort to its open drawbridge.  They then promptly all fell in and drowned when the moat suddenly thawed.  Better luck next time, fellas.

[JimmyAgent007]

Ive been reading about cages and such, might use them.  I just dont want things I need to micromanage.  Would be nice if a fall of 5 z-levels killed things instead of 30 or so.  I might just keep it empty until I get my magma going. 

[Luriant]

Dwarves can trap in trap safely. But trap with webs, sleep/unconscious dwarfs, activate upright spikes with a dwarf in the tile.... can injuried a dwarf (or put in a cage).

Drawbridge only work without creatures above 1200000 size. A creature above prevent working, a creature under can deconstruct the bridge. All other creatures under the size are crushed, sent flying or fall down.

I fall in love with the dodge-me trap, I downloaded the map in the wiki and saw a 280 siege fall with zero quality mechanism and some training weapons. Test it. I don't know if the map work with the last version.
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Trap_design#Dodge_Me_Trap

Ps. Put a Upright Spike in the moat. Don't need mechanism, the falling can injurie some invaders, and kill it with
And put a stair to the exterior. The invaders can fall and fall again, until dead.

[JimmyAgent007]

Maybe a moat, say 5 deep, with water only 2 or 3 levels deep so even if its ice the bad guys are trapped until it thaws. 

Any friendlies that fall in are expendable.  I suppose their gear is as well.

[Werdna]

Building the # of cages or weapons needed to fill such a large space might be daunting.  You might leave it empty and simply concentrate on defending/trapping the main entrance into your fort.  Invaders will generally ignore a moat unless you give them a reason to go in it (like a door, or a chained animal), and prefer more direct routes into your fort.  Moats are generally most useful as a way to protect an outside area from incursion by dangerous wildlife.  Walls with overhangs are better protection from invaders (to stop climbing, and to provide protection from archers).

[JimmyAgent007]

The top floor of my castle (made from 'jet' blocks also, cool looking black castle) has 1 floor overhang plus fortifications. So im not worried about climbing up.  Focusing on the front entry way was what I was thinking of until I thought of the shallow water moat.  No traps needed.  Also acts as a reservoir for my fort if I can find a good way to bring it in without flooding things.

[PatrikLundell]

A single tile overhang won't actually block climbing, unless the overhang is a floor rather than a wall (yes, that's odd).

You also seem to be overly concerned about water: dorfs don't drink water unless hospitalized or desperate (well, I actually had one who had water as a favored food item once), and none is needed to keep farms, cooking, or booze making going.

[JimmyAgent007]

its one floor and one fortification overhang so 2 tiles.

every winter i get a bunch of notifications about being unable to get water.  I think I have it sorted though.  Made a little thing to give me a winter supply.  Will worry about the rest later on.

[Werdna]

every winter i get a bunch of notifications about being unable to get water.  I think I have it sorted though.  Made a little thing to give me a winter supply.  Will worry about the rest later on.

That's usually an indication that the booze has run out (or you may have enough booze, but too few barrels/pots for the # of current drinkers), or that you have dwarves in the hospital that need water.  (or jail?  I think they are brought water, if there is no booze within reach)