Post by: Aldaris on November 01, 2009, 05:48:26 am
Post by: mainiac on November 01, 2009, 10:32:48 am
L+
Abortion Rights
Flag Burning
L
Free Speech
M
Pollution
Police Regulation
Death Penalty
Labor Laws
Nuclear Power
Gay Rights
C
Corporate Law
Civil Rights
Tax Structure
Womans Rights
Immigration
C+
Gun Control
Election Reform
Animal Rights
Military Spending
I don't really remember what Human Rights refers to.
Not sure where to put drug laws, because on the one hand, pot is essential legal in California (L) but on the other hand, we release violent criminals to make room for drug offenders (C+).
Post by: Jonathan S. Fox on November 01, 2009, 01:38:37 pm
L:
Women have substantial recourse against discrimination.
Affirmative action is in place to counteract discrimination.
Abortion is mostly legal, but discouraged by law.
Homosexuals have many rights shared by heterosexuals.
Free speech is encouraged.
Flag-burning is legal but stigmatized.
M:
Great expense is taken to slow immigration, without success.
Moderate campaign finance reform is implemented.
Torture allegations still occasionally crop up.
Taxes are moderate, and the code has loop-holes.
Law enforcement is moderately regulated.
Privacy laws are moderate.
Nuclear power is often an energy source.
Industry is subject to moderate pollution regulations.
Workers still require some benefits.
C:
Prisons are filled with the targets of a war on drugs.
Massive investment is put into the military.
Animal research is lightly regulated.
The death penalty is actively enforced in many states.
Corporate culture is corrupt and there is a great disparity in wages.
Military weapons are banned, but similar-looking guns are available.
Post by: Neonivek on November 01, 2009, 01:48:08 pm
So a C+ Gunlaw would be "Everyone must carry a shotgun on them at all times at penelty of being shot"
Post by: LordBucket on November 01, 2009, 06:04:11 pm
a C+ Gunlaw would be "Everyone must carry a
shotgun on them at all times at penelty of being shot"
So I suppose "every head-of-household must own a gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennesaw,_Georgia#Gun_law)" is only C, right?
Post by: G-Flex on November 01, 2009, 06:15:10 pm
And how is gun control C+? We have things like waiting periods, gun registration, background checks, etc. This varies a bit from state to state, I think, but still, guns are freely available to everyone at the drop of a hat everywhere.
Post by: Zorgn on November 01, 2009, 06:21:03 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 01, 2009, 06:48:52 pm
For example a while ago Rifles were the first to wish to be banned because they were used to shoot cops
-Note: I am unaware of the full issue
In Canada however it is the opposite, they want to ban Pistols because they are easily hidden
Guns are in flux because they rarely fall under Conservative and Liberal but squarely in Public Safety. It becomes Liberal and Conservative when it is about the "Right" to own a gun
Someone once said in the Radio that despite Mayors claiming to be Conservative or Liberal as an attempt to gardner votes the job rarely actually involves these political views.
Post by: Jonathan S. Fox on November 01, 2009, 10:16:50 pm
Post by: mainiac on November 02, 2009, 10:11:34 am
Abortion rights in the US are not L+. There are term limits and probably some other issues. I'm not saying this is a good or a bad thing, I'm just saying.
And how is gun control C+? We have things like waiting periods, gun registration, background checks, etc. This varies a bit from state to state, I think, but still, guns are freely available to everyone at the drop of a hat everywhere.
Term limits? Partial birth abortion is still legal in this country. The only legal restrictions I am aware of is that in some states they require a woman to listen to a checklist of conservative nonsense before the procedure.
As for gun control, it's a joke thanks to the gun show loop hole, straw man purchases and the fact that legal action isn't taken against vendors who knowingly sell guns to violent criminals. A violent felon can buy military assault riffles without a waiting period or even an ID in 33 states. The point of gun control isn't to annoy the legal gun owners. It's to control the damn guns.
Post by: Leafsnail on November 02, 2009, 10:12:16 am
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L+Most of these were random guesses, although Death Penalty and Flag Burning are definitely L+ here. Open to corrections on these.
Flag Burning (we honestly don't care)
Death Penalty
L
Free Speech
Abortion Rights
Labor Laws
Gay Rights
Womans Rights
Immigration
Gun Control
M
Pollution
Nuclear Power
Tax Structure
Corporate Law
C
Civil Rights
Military Spending
Police Regulation
C+
Election Reform
Animal Rights
Post by: G-Flex on November 02, 2009, 10:30:31 am
Abortion rights in the US are not L+. There are term limits and probably some other issues. I'm not saying this is a good or a bad thing, I'm just saying.
And how is gun control C+? We have things like waiting periods, gun registration, background checks, etc. This varies a bit from state to state, I think, but still, guns are freely available to everyone at the drop of a hat everywhere.
Term limits? Partial birth abortion is still legal in this country. The only legal restrictions I am aware of is that in some states they require a woman to listen to a checklist of conservative nonsense before the procedure.
As for gun control, it's a joke thanks to the gun show loop hole, straw man purchases and the fact that legal action isn't taken against vendors who knowingly sell guns to violent criminals. A violent felon can buy military assault riffles without a waiting period or even an ID in 33 states. The point of gun control isn't to annoy the legal gun owners. It's to control the damn guns.
From Wikipedia:
Quote
On October 2, 2003, with a vote of 281-142, the House again approved a measure banning the procedure, called the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act. Through this legislation, a doctor could face up to two years in prison and face civil lawsuits for performing such an abortion. A woman who undergoes the procedure cannot be prosecuted under the measure. The measure contains an exemption to allow the procedure if the woman's life is threatened. On October 21, 2003, the United States Senate passed the same bill by a vote of 64-34, with a number of Democrats joining in support. The bill was signed by President George W. Bush on November 5, 2003, but a federal judge blocked its enforcement in several states just a few hours after it became public law. The Supreme Court upheld the nationwide ban on the procedure in the case Gonzales v. Carhart on April 18, 2007. The 5-4 ruling said the Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act does not conflict with previous Court decisions regarding abortion.
Also, I'm aware the gun control situation varies from state to state, but C+ gun control laws means no gun control laws. There are still regulations, and certain types of firearm are still banned on the federal level to some degree.
Post by: mainiac on November 02, 2009, 11:10:48 am
Post by: ihateturnips on November 02, 2009, 11:55:04 am
L+
The death penalty is considered barbaric and never practised
Homosexuals have equal rights (in theory)
Flag-burning is legal*
L
Women have substantial recourse against discrimination
Affirmative action is in place to counteract discrimination
Abortion is mostly legal, but discouraged by law
Animal research is stiffly regulated
Nuclear power is intensely regulated and seldom used
Industry is subject to strict pollution regulations
Most guns cannot be sold to anyone outside of law enforcement**
M
Recreational drugs are prohibited unless medically prescribed
Great expense is taken to slow immigration, without success
Military spending is growing each year. (Unsure)
Moderate campaign finance reform is implemented
Torture allegations still occasionally crop up
Taxes are moderate, and the code has loop-holes
Privacy laws are moderate
Workers still require some benefits
C
Law enforcement is lightly regulated
Corporate culture is corrupt and there is a great disparity in wages
Some individuals are harassed because of their speech***
C+
* It's true - we really don't care at all.
** Well, nearest I could get. The general public can't legally have guns unless for specifically licensed sporting or work use (I think).
*** Consider the reaction to that evil blighter Nick Griffin being allowed to speak on the BBC. Also the current trend on strong libel cases and gagging orders on the press (e.g. "super injunction" from Trafigura) - yet tempered by the strong and protected power of the press and media to satirise and highlight government hypocrisy (particularly Private Eye)
In contrast to Leafsnail's post, I disagree significantly with many of the placings - but it's a diverse country! I, too, am happy to discuss.
Post by: G-Flex on November 02, 2009, 12:00:07 pm
The partial birth abortion law doesn't actually stop partial birth abortion.
It's still illegal/discouraged, and if you think the US as of right now is totally abortion-friendly... well, I just saw another pro-life billboard on the way to the DMV.
Quote
Gun control laws don't restrict who can own guns.
Again, a variably-ineffective law doesn't mean the law doesn't exist. Last I checked, I couldn't go buy military-grade fully-automatic weapons on the street corner.
L+ and C+ are meant to represent extremes. Look at the descriptions again for C gun control and L abortion: "Abortion is mostly legal, but discouraged by law" and "Military weapons are banned, but similar-looking guns are available" (roughly true).
Post by: Leafsnail on November 02, 2009, 12:01:14 pm
Quote
*** Consider the reaction to that evil blighter Nick Griffin being allowed to speak on the BBC. Also the current trend on strong libel cases and gagging orders on the press (e.g. "super injunction" from Trafigura) - yet tempered by the strong and protected power of the press and media to satirise and highlight government hypocrisy (particularly Private Eye)Ah, yes, if you include the libel laws, Britain comes out terribly in terms of Free Speech. Forgot about those. Then again, the fact that there can be magazines such as the Private Eye shows that Free Speech can't be all that conservative...
Quote
Military spending is growing each year. (Unsure)I put it under C due to the huge projects being undertaken by the government in things like supercarriers and Eurofighters.
Post by: Peepshow on November 02, 2009, 12:02:23 pm
Edit: Dam my slow arse typing.
Post by: Leafsnail on November 02, 2009, 12:03:58 pm
Hmm...
Ah, yes. Not sure what that shows other than the British press enjoys blowing things wildly out of proportion...
Post by: Peepshow on November 02, 2009, 12:10:33 pm
I think my point was:
Griffin getting on question time.
Biscuit joke almost gets someone sacked.
The law doesn't matter in Britain. How many complaints are made is what decides what happens to you.
Post by: Leafsnail on November 02, 2009, 12:13:34 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 02, 2009, 12:23:36 pm
Few countries in this case should have C+ or L+ and those that do would likely have political unrest or a military powerful enough to uphold it. (Either that or that the full extent of the law hasn't been explored.)
Quote
The death penalty is considered barbaric and never practised
That is M or L depending on your views. Though using "considered Barbaric" probably puts it into L while the view that it doesn't work fits it into M.
L+ would probably be something like Jail sentence is considered barbaric and all criminals are instead sent to rehabilitation because being a criminal is considered a mental condition.
Post by: Leafsnail on November 02, 2009, 12:25:39 pm
Post by: Rezan on November 02, 2009, 12:32:21 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 02, 2009, 12:34:08 pm
The issue is Death Penalty, not Criminal Rights, so the furthest you can get is the outlawing of the death penalty. I suppose Criminal Rights might be better as a broader issue.
Some of these laws just hit the point where they simply cannot go to the extremes of political viewpoints. Not having a death penelty doesn't get to L+ even though that is as far as "not having a death penelty" can go.
So I just expand!
Though I GUESS less of a jump would be: L+ "Capital Crimes are considered minor next to petty theft and J-walking"
It would be like trying to get the political spectrum of eating Pancakes on Monday. It never leaves Moderate.
Post by: G-Flex on November 02, 2009, 01:10:13 pm
They're supposed to be very America-centric and stereotypical, so trying to apply it to real-world scenarios, while amusing, shouldn't be taken terribly seriously.
Post by: mainiac on November 02, 2009, 02:22:57 pm
Again, a variably-ineffective law doesn't mean the law doesn't exist. Last I checked, I couldn't go buy military-grade fully-automatic weapons on the street corner.
Used cars aren't available on every street corner either. That doesn't mean you can't buy them if you go to a place that sells them.
The partial birth abortion law doesn't actually stop partial birth abortion.It's still illegal/discouraged, and if you think the US as of right now is totally abortion-friendly... well, I just saw another pro-life billboard on the way to the DMV.
Last I checked, billboards aren't law.
Post by: G-Flex on November 02, 2009, 05:23:16 pm
Again, a variably-ineffective law doesn't mean the law doesn't exist. Last I checked, I couldn't go buy military-grade fully-automatic weapons on the street corner.
Used cars aren't available on every street corner either. That doesn't mean you can't buy them if you go to a place that sells them.
Yeah, except used cars aren't illegal to sell in the first place.
Quote
[/quote]The partial birth abortion law doesn't actually stop partial birth abortion.It's still illegal/discouraged, and if you think the US as of right now is totally abortion-friendly... well, I just saw another pro-life billboard on the way to the DMV.
Last I checked, billboards aren't law.
By mentioning billboards, I was attempting to make more a point about public opinion than the state of the law. Also, you're ignoring the part where I mention that some abortion procedures are, in fact, illegal or at least heavily discouraged by the law. You can't call the country L+ regarding abortion, which would mean that all abortions are legal and never discouraged, period, when we have the federal Supreme Court upholding legislation preventing certain kinds of it.
Post by: mainiac on November 02, 2009, 05:58:27 pm
Yeah, except used cars aren't illegal to sell in the first place.
Military grade assault riffles aren't illegal to sell in the first place. 33 states have no regulation on the sale of military model assault riffles to violent felons who do not possess an ID. Look at this list:
http://www.gunshows-usa.com/October%202009.htm
Tomorrow alone there will be 38 locations across the country where you could make such a purchase.
Ze regulations, zey do nothing!
Post by: G-Flex on November 02, 2009, 06:10:58 pm
See also: Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act (background checks):
Quote
From 1994 through 2008, 1.8 million attempted firearm purchases were blocked by the Brady background check system.
And the Gun Control Act of 1968: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Control_Act_of_1968
Oh, and this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnibus_Crime_Control_and_Safe_Streets_Act_of_1968
Regardless of whether or not you think legislation is too lax, or not enforced well enough, the fact is that there is still a lot of extant legislation on who can get guns and how, and that it IS enforced, although the degree to which it is enforced is obviously in question.
And regarding partial birth abortion:
Quote
On October 2, 2003, with a vote of 281-142, the House again approved a measure banning the procedure, called the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act. Through this legislation, a doctor could face up to two years in prison and face civil lawsuits for performing such an abortion. A woman who undergoes the procedure cannot be prosecuted under the measure. The measure contains an exemption to allow the procedure if the woman's life is threatened. On October 21, 2003, the United States Senate passed the same bill by a vote of 64-34, with a number of Democrats joining in support. The bill was signed by President George W. Bush on November 5, 2003, but a federal judge blocked its enforcement in several states just a few hours after it became public law. The Supreme Court upheld the nationwide ban on the procedure in the case Gonzales v. Carhart on April 18, 2007. The 5-4 ruling said the Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act does not conflict with previous Court decisions regarding abortion.
The current judicial interpretation of the U.S. Constitution regarding abortion in the United States, following the Supreme Court of the United States's 1973 landmark decision in Roe v. Wade, and subsequent companion decisions, is that abortion is legal but may be restricted by the states to varying degrees. States have passed laws to restrict late term abortions, require parental notification for minors, and mandate the disclosure of abortion risk information to patients prior to the procedure.
Also, federal funding for abortion is sort of up in the air, I believe. All these things tell me that yes, abortion, at least in certain forms, is definitely discouraged - and in some cases made a crime - by the law.
At this point I feel like you're just arguing for the sake of arguing, honestly.
Post by: mainiac on November 02, 2009, 06:37:37 pm
The partial birth abortion ban act of 2003 does not ban partial birth abortion!
It requires that a partial birth abortion, if done, be done in a specific way. But the ban did not make partial birth abortion illegal and the majority opinion in Gonzales vs. Carhart explicitly confirmed the legality of partial birth abortion. They passed a partial birth abortion ban by changing the definition of partial birth abortion.
Post by: Neonivek on November 02, 2009, 11:04:02 pm
Id like to give an example, but I think it could start a debate.
But what happened is that the government changed the definition of marriage and UNFORTUNATELY a lot of people thought that allowing same sex marriage meant that the government was going to force religious institutions to allow them. (At least I hope that wasn't the case). When it was only supposed to apply to Legal marriage, which was already as loose as possible (for example living together for a period of time is considered a marriage)
Post by: Megaman on November 07, 2009, 11:23:40 am
L+
Gun control
C+
Election Reform
Animal Rights
Free Speech
Abortion Rights
Labor Laws
Gay Rights
Womans Rights
Immigration
Pollution
Nuclear Power
Tax Structure
Corporate Law
Civil Rights
Military Spending
Police Regulation
Post by: Jonathan S. Fox on November 07, 2009, 04:22:49 pm
Post by: Megaman on November 07, 2009, 05:41:46 pm
Post by: Servant Corps on November 07, 2009, 07:10:41 pm
Quote
L+
Gun control
Only nominally though. Tropico lacks even the most basic background checks for military and police. Remember the Coup of '58 where the Presidente fied all the military officers during a coup, only to see anti-Presidente farmers more than willing to enlist?
Quote
C+
Tax Structure
C++. Tropico is one of the few countries in the world that boast 0% TAXATION. Instead, you have to pay for 'services', since everything is owned by the state. The state is obligiated to pay wages though, even as low as 1USD/Month.
Quote
Corporate Law
Since everything is owned by the state, it's only natural to conclude that corporations are illegal. L++.
Quote
Police Regulation
I agree with this. The Police are so unregulated that they could even arrest military officers during a military coup! Militarists everywhere should be horrified by this.
Quote
Immigration
The current Presidente has announced plans to make immigration basically L+. As he said, "We always need new
Post by: Megaman on November 08, 2009, 03:30:10 pm
Post by: mainiac on November 08, 2009, 05:59:48 pm
Post by: Aldaris on November 09, 2009, 10:14:41 am
Wait, does tropico have laws?From what I heard, it has one: 'Do what I say, dammit!' from the perspective of the player.
Post by: Jonathan S. Fox on November 09, 2009, 11:41:45 am
Post by: budapi on November 10, 2009, 12:50:08 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
)Post by: Rezan on November 10, 2009, 05:54:31 am
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Nuclear Power (official 20 year phase-out)
Doesn't Germany get a lot of its power from France's nuclear reactors? If this is true, then I would say Germany is moderate at best.
Post by: budapi on November 10, 2009, 08:41:39 am
Doesn't Germany get a lot of its power from France's nuclear reactors? If this is true, then I would say Germany is moderate at best.Yes, but only in winter (when there is still higher export than import). In summer, energy is usually exported to France because less reactors are active due to too high ambient temperature (less cooling).
And it's only a law. If after the 20 years energy will not suffice the whole point is moot and Germany might roll back to C. Possibly earlier.
Post by: overlordFT on November 28, 2009, 04:04:32 pm
L+
Flag Burning
Death Penalty
Nuclear Power (No plants at all.)
Military Spending (Our army is utterly ceremonial)
L
Immigration
Gun Control
Police Regulation
M
Civil Rights
C
Free Speech
Labor Laws
Womans Rights
Pollution
Tax Structure
Corporate Law
C+
Election Reform
Animal Rights
Gay Rights
Abortion Rights (It's actually illegal for someone to even gain information about abortion by law.)
Drug laws (All drugs are prohibited to the highest degree and our prisons are facing srs overflooding due to floods of people in on cannibis charges.)
Ireland is sadly a conservative nightmare. We need you, LCs ;_;
Post by: Aldaris on November 28, 2009, 05:00:59 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on November 29, 2009, 03:22:52 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on November 29, 2009, 03:28:52 pm
Post by: uran77 on December 07, 2009, 05:16:13 am
M:Everything