[color=limegreen]making questions limegreen[/color]
PTW
PTW
What's the difference between lethal combat and no-quarter combat?
What's the difference between lethal combat and no-quarter combat?
Lethal combat means swords have been drawn and the fight can result in serious injury or death, but surrender is an option. No quarter means no surrender.
is the colapse of trees a feature or that's gonna be fixed too?, i had to cut several roots from the ground in order to carve my current fortress and this has caused several trees to colapse. if this is a feature maybe it could count as choping trees, so wood is generated from the colapsed ones. i dont have all the details. but should be logical.
no quarter is for when an AI critter finally realizes that you still attack people that have already yielded, so they don't fall for your tricks again. That and animals.I got an elf to enter no quarter by throwing it out of a tree by the neck. Some goblins too, by stabbing them. Actually, I've hardly ever seen merely nonlethal or lethal combat, it's all just no quarter.
No quarter happens all the time. I think it's bugged.no quarter is for when an AI critter finally realizes that you still attack people that have already yielded, so they don't fall for your tricks again. That and animals.I got an elf to enter no quarter by throwing it out of a tree by the neck. Some goblins too, by stabbing them. Actually, I've hardly ever seen merely nonlethal or lethal combat, it's all just no quarter.
What determines if someone knows where a site or person is? Does it randomly pick someone from the pot and makes sure they know the spot, or does it keep track of every location that unit knows (i.e.: when you speak to someone if I recall they get realized and stuff is made for them, is this done before hand or only in piecemeal until you've talked to them)? With the rumor mill in full force, would other people learn where a site is from that person given time?
Is there currently any way to determine why people are fighting?
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Should we expect certain people, as a result of the personality rewrite, to engage in spontaneous violence?
Can you confirm what the numbers in the ORIENTATION token mean? Research tells me they're probably female_chance:bisexual_chance:male_chance, but I could be wrong (especially in the middle).
Oh, yeah, I forgot -- I also put in no quarter for intruders on sites w/ entities w/ required kill ethics. This was because there's no justice system, so you could just yield to get out of any trouble, making killing you the quick fix. Since the new cultural groups carry some ethics with them, it's possible that's carrying over to markets in some way, but that's really the most charitable interpretation. It's probably something more messed up. If anybody decides to jump in on the side of a fleeing animal, for instance, they'd adopt its no quarter stance, and I know that kind of thing happened in testing (fixed that instance, but who knows). For example, they'd be like "there's a fight (scared animal)! animal? neutral. but I hate that guy! let's jump in on the side of the animal! no quarter? no problem!"
So what's in the development plans for the nearest future as far as "bigger" features go (after taverns and job priorities and any other fun tidbits)?
With the fundamentals put by 0.40, kingdom "mode" is not that far away (though I still want my fort mode skills in adventure mode, especially since all the workshops in dwarven forts are a thing)...Though I guess army battles should happen beforehand...
There seems to be an overabundance of wood even in savannas and deserts with cacti. Should this be balanced, in your opinion, or is it intended to make wood an easier accessed resource? As of now, it doesn't go with the elven diplomat dialogue, since part of the challenge of a tree fell quota is not getting a hundred elven bowmen at your doorstep, and the new trees kind of nullify that.
There seems to be an overabundance of wood even in savannas and deserts with cacti. Should this be balanced, in your opinion, or is it intended to make wood an easier accessed resource? As of now, it doesn't go with the elven diplomat dialogue, since part of the challenge of a tree fell quota is not getting a hundred elven bowmen at your doorstep, and the new trees kind of nullify that.
I could still see that happening if someone made an above ground fort out of wood. Personally I like the larger quantities. It's more realistic and it's nice to see something that makes the game easier instead of harder for a change.
Are conversation system improvements on the short-term todo list? (could really use some sort of filtering/sorting options) I would apply this same question to the Log system as well, it can start to contain A LOT of stuff. Would be nice to be able to flag items or selectively suppress certain items, etc.You can already filter the dialogue list: each question has a couple of keywords, and if you type those in at any moment during perusing the dialogue list, you can filter the list.
The more I look at this sentence, the more redundant it feels.
Any chance we'll get any significant new features or functionality in the short-term, perhaps appended to the end of the bug fix cycle?
What happened to the [POWER] token?As far as I can tell, it still works as it is supposed to be. Powers simply seem to have fewer reliable targets now. (That said, there's an old power bug I should go and check.)
When can we expect the features from fruit and fruit bearing plants to be fully implemented? At present gathering fruit bearing plants only gathers the plants which are essentially useless on their own. From looking over the RAWs one can deduce that there's something else that needs to be done with these plants to make their fruits usable. In the short term modders can simply go through and adjust the tags on these plants to let you gather their fruit like any other kind of plant, but I'd still be interested in knowing what the ultimate goals of this feature are.He's said elsewhere that it would be soon. It'll either be during the bugfixing cycle or the next major update. He's stated he plans on making the brewables make more sense, and that he wanted to get the plants (and trees) to be a little more realistic - in fact, he's even said that if we want to submit changes of our own (provided they're correct), we can. I can't link you to exactly where he said that (not a good day for me), but it was in response to a question I asked, and in a FotF reply.
Of course, all relationships are still eternal, so the lover thing is kind of broken now (sometimes it won't advance beyond lover because one of the parties is not interested in committing, but still neither ever breaks it off, ever... not unrealistic in individual cases, but strange overall).
Are tamed megabeasts eventually going to be able to breed?
Currently in worlds with long history, bronze colossi tend to get wiped out due to fact they don't breed and in world gen they aren't stronger than other megabeasts. When they are eventually randomized as well and more magic happens, is there going to be new way of getting more of them? Like crazy mages creating new ones or something?
Rainseeker: Speaking of the bronze colossuses; could it possibly be that you have it be connected together with a bunch of bolts or something that could fall off and that's the way you could kill it even if it's solid.
Toady: I guess one of the things to consider is why is it there? Was it made by somebody?
Capntastic: Some sort of supernatural intervention.
Toady: I don't remember anymore, but was the one in Jason and the Argonauts made by Hephaestus or something? So created by a forge god type thing, right? Then there's the idea; could they have been made by old dwarves, then you have the problem of, well, can your dwarves make them? And then you get into the whole automaton segue into steampunk and so on. Then there's just them being ... or are they some kind of bronzey spirit of nature type thing, that's just kind of wondering around, causing trouble.
Ampersand: I don't know if you've ever played Morrowind or anything, but in the lore of Morrowind or Daggerfall even, the dwarves did in fact make a gigantic mecha.
Toady: Yeah, they had all kinds of steam automatons, right? I remember ... no I won that game, I think, if you're talking about the big statue at the end. So there's a notion of dwarves there, just ... there's something about steam [that] bothers me, I don't know why. Having all these steam powered ...
Ampersand: I don't think their giant machine was steam powered, it was part of Lorkhan ...
Toady: Oh yeah that's right, there's magic and stuff, and we don't have a whole lot of that, but we should, yeah. I don't remember what our thoughts on automatons were completely; I believe that having something like an intelligent automaton walking around would be an artifact type situation.
Are eventually civilizations and megabeasts going to have a more priority on what sites they invade? I know that civilizations make war because of torture and treatment of plants and such, but they do seem to be rather harsh on kobolds. Currently kobolds seem to get wiped out since they don't breed much and one army or megabeast is enough to wipe out all of them out. I'd imagine that civilizations and megabeasts wouldn't really bother kobolds much due to fact kobolds aren't much of a threat(well, I guess dragon might want to kill them if they steal from dragon, but yeah otherwise they get wiped out to extinction before year 200 so I never get to see them on medium history on fortress mode), but yeah. Kobolds are about same amount of threat and as bandit camps and I don't think bandit camps get wiped out by civilizations or megabeasts. Or at least they keep popping up more often than kobolds. Even besides improving kobolds' survival chances, I'd imagine young megabeasts would be more careful than adult size ones.
Vaults' residents make me wonder if demons are eventually going to have multiple randomized types as well(I guess they might already have since all goblin civilization demons seem to be humanoid)? I heard 2d version had three types of demons with one being weak, one being lusty tentacle monster and one being boss type, do demons have that type thing going on or are they going to eventually?
Is future versions going to have bandit leaders with combat abilities again? Currently they seem to be lords and masters without armor and only a knife. Also, why do some demon masters run at sight of adventurer and others one shot kill me?
Are we eventually going to be able to search in legend mode by species/race?
Are there plans to do more with yielded opponents, such as taking them prisoner?
I'd love to march into the bandit camp that's been harassing a town, dispatch the henchmen and then drag the leader back to the lord and see him put in the dungeons while I receive my rewards.
Justice
Surrender to those seeking you
You have to follow orders to remain in surrendered state (generally to go to a location or drop your weapon)
When you make a command that follows an order, there should be an option to skip ahead to stages of the journey (such as to a dungeon or halfway through the journey back if you want to attempt to escape from your captor)
If you leave the surrendered state, you should be attacked until you surrender again, though force should not necessarily be lethal immediately
Punishment
Initial beatings
Cutting off some small body part
Branding (requires wounds to support art image from crafts)
Stocks, buried to neck, tied to post
Caned, whipped, hammered
Executions
Imprisonment (until there are ways to escape, might as well retire the character, at which point rescue might be possible by a subsequent character)
Are conversation system improvements on the short-term todo list? (could really use some sort of filtering/sorting options) I would apply this same question to the Log system as well, it can start to contain A LOT of stuff. Would be nice to be able to flag items or selectively suppress certain items, etc.
Quote from: Urist Da VinciIs there currently any way to determine why people are fighting?
Aside from the occasional aside, it can be impossible to figure out why a fight is happening. That's a reasonably short-term goal.
Any chance we'll get any significant new features or functionality in the short-term, perhaps appended to the end of the bug fix cycle?
Will the future functions of civ leaders apply to players that are civ leaders?
AFFILIATION ARC: You should be able to rise to the top of an entity (civilization, town, etc.) in adventure mode. While the full set of responsibilities that would entail will have to wait, it should at least be possible to attain this status for the first version. You should be able to do things for individuals. This could earn you favors from sleeping in their home and food gifts all the way to a marriage offer. There can be smaller entities like bandits and cults which could offer more unsavory tasks for similar privileges (steal, kill, kidnap, etc.). Can earn right to sleep in the large hall in town if you've become affiliated with them, but vagrancy needs to be punished and the camping must be harsher before this is meaningful.
Your followers
List of followers and ability to look at their information
Being able to take along aggrieved people for a time if you are seeking justice for them
Reputation with entity (see below) allowing for easier followers
Being able to issue orders to attack targets
It should depend, but orders to kill civilians, especially people they know, should result in various negative reactions, possibly including hostility and violence -- your behavior should cause these reactions as well
Being able to issue orders to distract and lead off targets
Being able to issue orders to stay at a site for general purposes (defense, caring for livestock, etc.)
Depending on loyalty, they should not follow unreasonable orders for long (like guarding a random wilderness location)
Expansion of personality system to support more value-judgment-based properties such as bravery vs. cowardice/apathy/recklessness
Better morale failures
Having your own entity name for your group if you have a high enough profile (or before that, but nobody will care)
Toady, there is any time frame to resume work on the night creatures? Vampires and Werecreatures aren't working well in Adventurer mode, and I remember you wanted to include some more.
Do migrating armies show up in fortress mode? Is it possible to create a fortress that intercepts any armies heading towards your civilization?
Are there plans to fix the piles of people in forts and such this version? It tends to be an FPS killer which makes it very hard to play.
Also,
Now that climbing is implemented, is a landscape rewrite planned any time soon, such as having some steep cliffs generated without ramps?
I'd like to have high cliffs back, and climbing was the main obstacle there, but I need to continue to be a bit careful there. The old situation with cliffs everywhere was still bad -- might have to wait for the 3D veins and landforms and things. I like ladders and ropes... I don't even recollect at this point (burned out as I am since this is the last answer I'm typing up) what the block was for getting rope ladders in before, so I'll have to see what happens there.
When cliffs come back - when we get a notion of a cliff as an external feature - the problem with cliffs coming back was that you didn't have a way to climb, they were everywhere and you didn't have a way to climb in adventure mode. But cliffs can start to come back first probably as external features, just like the lava and so on, like lava and bottomless pits used to be these features underground, there are going to be special features above ground where you have a bit more interesting things that it also can have a handle on so it doesn't just put them everywhere and at that time you can start to think about a cave entrance that looks more interesting. The problem was that there's no real sheer faces to make a cave entrance look more like you'd expect a cave entrance to look like, so it just has to dig down, right? It has to dig in the dirt until it gets a cave entrance for you, which is really disappointing because you go and they all look like these little pits. So it's something we want to change but it's something that has an intermediate step that needs to go in first and I'm not sure when the aboveground thing ... when we put in things like canyons and mesas and other interesting constructions aboveground.
I meant if there are going to be MULTIPLE different randomized demon types
Like there seems to be three basic categories for spoilery vault guardian monsters :P The animal like one, the humanoid one and huge monster one. Are there going to be multiple different demon categories or are they going to be same "Humanoid goblin leaders and ones you can unleash by digging adamantinum are just as random as forbidden beasts" so far? Like, I remember demons from hell being anything from salt six legged anteaters to floating cloud with wings to humanoid demons like goblin leader ones.
But thanks for answering the other questions :)
I meant if there are going to be MULTIPLE different randomized demon types
Like there seems to be three basic categories for spoilery vault guardian monsters :P The animal like one, the humanoid one and huge monster one. Are there going to be multiple different demon categories or are they going to be same "Humanoid goblin leaders and ones you can unleash by digging adamantinum are just as random as forbidden beasts" so far? Like, I remember demons from hell being anything from salt six legged anteaters to floating cloud with wings to humanoid demons like goblin leader ones.
But thanks for answering the other questions :)
All the randomized creature stuff is unfinished, so that kind of change is definitely fair game. However, I don't think Toady has specific plans yet, and I don't think he'd spoil them if he did.
Do migrating armies show up in fortress mode? Is it possible to create a fortress that intercepts any armies heading towards your civilization?
Fort Mode only gets targeted invasions for now, but you'll get passers-by later.
Is the following observation a intentional or unintentional change: In Fortress mode the speed in which the calendar time passes seemed to have slowed down. In addition to this, the rate at which dwarves learn their skills seemed to have increased greatly.
To make a comparison, in .34.11 I was able to make 15 bedrooms (bed and a door 2x2), a small dining room, a workshop area, a farm and be able to produce about 1k value in good before the first Liaison+Traders came in fall (from what I remember). My dwarves would be able to reach about adept-expert in certain skills.
In 40.03, I have made 50 bedrooms (bed and a door 2x2), a large dining room, fully built workshop area, a fully connected kitchen area, farm and proper ramp accesses, and was able to make 5.5k in good for trades. My dwarves have already reached Master and High Master in certain area's.
I do agree that this change was in the right direction, however I do feel that I am progressing too quickly now.
Are there plans to add concubinage? And are dwarves ever going to become blood brothers or things like that? I am pretty sure these would both be more historically fitting to the pseudo-historical fantasy setting than the (to my knowledge) largely modern thing of having homosexual relationships that are treated as basically the same as heterosexual relationships. I am also pretty sure they would contribute more to the gameplay than simply causing there to be some sterile couples, and would contribute more to the forums than simply causing the denizens to argue over homophobia.
Mind you, I'm not saying "homosexuality shouldn't be in the game," (although, honestly, I like the fact that I can play Dwarf Fortress without usually being reminded of current cultural conflicts). I'm just saying things in the game should be interesting beyond satisfying some people's need to see their notion of equality championed in game design and should not be jarringly modern considering the supposed, fuzzy cultural cutoff date. And, by extension, there are things that could be a lot more directly and immediately interesting that are almost impossible to do in a way that doesn't fit the cultural setting. Things that shaped the plot of The Iliad and the Norse Sagas. Such as concubines and ye olde ritual blood brotherhood.
Are there plans to add concubinage?Masterwork mod had concubines, but cut later on Toady's request, so I think it's highly unlikely they'll ever be added.
Hopefully this isn't too suggestion-y:Probably planned, though I can't find anything in the DFtalks.
Will minecarts ever be viable as a method of transit?
Are there plans to add concubinage?Masterwork mod had concubines, but cut later on Toady's request, so I think it's highly unlikely they'll ever be added.
Are there plans to add concubinage?Masterwork mod had concubines, but cut later on Toady's request, so I think it's highly unlikely they'll ever be added.
Really? Seems weird that Toady would interfere with a mod, so [citation needed], if you could.
Maybe Toady plays Masterwork? Oh great Toady, which mods do you use when you're just playing for fun?Are there plans to add concubinage?Masterwork mod had concubines, but cut later on Toady's request, so I think it's highly unlikely they'll ever be added.
Really? Seems weird that Toady would interfere with a mod, so [citation needed], if you could.
Are there plans to add concubinage?Masterwork mod had concubines, but cut later on Toady's request, so I think it's highly unlikely they'll ever be added.
Really? Seems weird that Toady would interfere with a mod, so [citation needed], if you could.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=125672.msg4230754#msg4230754
Calling concubinage "extramarital sex" is like calling slavery "honest work".
Calling concubinage "extramarital sex" is like calling slavery "honest work".
Forgive me if I'm just being ignorant here, but from what I understand about concubinage (which isn't much, I'll admit), "honest work" is disingenuous, while "extramarital sex" isn't, so I don't get the analogy.
In adventure mode sometimes when I start a game there is "Bandit led by (x) are harassing people on the street!" thing going on, but after killing all bandits and even after going to their leader and killing him, they are still saying that. Is there currently a way to resolve that "quest" so that people on the site stop saying they are being harassed?
(more random demons?)
What happened to the [POWER] token?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Are there plans to do more with yielded opponents, such as taking them prisoner?
I'd love to march into the bandit camp that's been harassing a town, dispatch the henchmen and then drag the leader back to the lord and see him put in the dungeons while I receive my rewards.
Will an equivalent of the old quest markers ever make a comeback, or do we have to keep track of destinations by ourselves now?
Maybe a system where certain topics in the Q screen could be 'marked' by the player, and then the relevant sites could be highlighted in the nearby sites list.
Do you think the current conversations between NPC's can often be a bit too spammy, any plans to tone it down at all?
Is the current "rumor" system working as intended? I ask because it seems like NPC's have a tendency to not care much when you inform them of completed tasks. Not sure if the rumor system is broken or if the NPC reactions to the things are just very subtle now.
There seems to be an overabundance of wood even in savannas and deserts with cacti. Should this be balanced, in your opinion, or is it intended to make wood an easier accessed resource? As of now, it doesn't go with the elven diplomat dialogue, since part of the challenge of a tree fell quota is not getting a hundred elven bowmen at your doorstep, and the new trees kind of nullify that.
Toady, there is any time frame to resume work on the night creatures? Vampires and Werecreatures aren't working well in Adventurer mode, and I remember you wanted to include some more.
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It is more like the fact that they don't try do disguise themselves, and the fact that werecreatures are useless in adventurer mode right now. The initial ideas Toady had when he started implementing them were much more interesting.
And there is my doubt about the rest of the night creatures that were cut out for the 32.01 release.
Do entities still need to be married (committed) to produce children?
Are there plans to fix the piles of people in forts and such this version? It tends to be an FPS killer which makes it very hard to play.
Do migrating armies show up in fortress mode? Is it possible to create a fortress that intercepts any armies heading towards your civilization?
...
What if you make a natural blockade, and the only way through is through your fort? I set up a map like that, I haven't gotten around to testing it though. (map) There is a spot you can build that's a landbridge between the goblin and dwarf civilizations, the only way through. Would the game just crash, or would they just magically phase through?
Is the following observation a intentional or unintentional change: In Fortress mode the speed in which the calendar time passes seemed to have slowed down. In addition to this, the rate at which dwarves learn their skills seemed to have increased greatly.
To make a comparison, in .34.11 I was able to make 15 bedrooms (bed and a door 2x2), a small dining room, a workshop area, a farm and be able to produce about 1k value in good before the first Liaison+Traders came in fall (from what I remember). My dwarves would be able to reach about adept-expert in certain skills.
In 40.03, I have made 50 bedrooms (bed and a door 2x2), a large dining room, fully built workshop area, a fully connected kitchen area, farm and proper ramp accesses, and was able to make 5.5k in good for trades. My dwarves have already reached Master and High Master in certain area's.
I do agree that this change was in the right direction, however I do feel that I am progressing too quickly now.
On a related question about plants: Are there plans to go through and give the various aboveground plants more realistic seasons and growth durations, as well as reasonable harvest seasons for things like fruit?
Right now they're all pretty much set for any season with short growth durations that allow you to get a crop every season (or more), while the underground plants all have seasons, which doesn't make much sense.
Okay so while Toady is clearly against concubinage, is he in general against the idea of having a some sort of extramarital consort/mistress that could lead to things like illegitimate heirs and other such intrigues?
Lovers is a hand-holdey term until further developments ensue.There's a joke to be made here, you know it. I don't know what the joke is, but it needs to be made.
Lovers is a hand-holdey term until further developments ensue.There's a joke to be made here, you know it. I don't know what the joke is, but it needs to be made.
It seemed like my misunderstanding was thinking that concubinage was more consensual that it appears to be. Shows you what you get for thinking in the abstract sometimes :) (my working definition was just "institutionalized affairs for the powerful", without any of the typical context).
The elves should definitely be changed now. It would be funny if they singled out specific old trees or parts of the map.
It seemed like my misunderstanding was thinking that concubinage was more consensual that it appears to be. Shows you what you get for thinking in the abstract sometimes :) (my working definition was just "institutionalized affairs for the powerful", without any of the typical context).
Hmm, for some cultures, the English word concubine (as it would be translated) actually denotes a highly respected position for someone who would otherwise be low status. I think in some Asian cultures these women were supposed to help bear heirs for the king, and they lived very well compared to their non-concubine peers. Probably not strictly consensual, but monarchy is often a situation where 'everyone' was basically a slave to the monarch, no matter who you were.
I've seen some named trees in 0.40.01 so I think that it may partially be implemented already, but don't quote me on that.QuoteThe elves should definitely be changed now. It would be funny if they singled out specific old trees or parts of the map.
That would be neat, I can see an elf diplomat adopting a tree, giving it a name like the ones in their sites, and holding your fort responsible if it gets felled.
If, when break-ups and so on are added to the relationship code, DF ends up like a reality show, that could be for the best.Day 10 in the Big Brother Fortress. Urist is in the magma forge.
I am perfectly ALL for having to deal with armies crossing your fortress site early on. It's realistic and it means you really, really don't want to pick a road or major highway as a site for your fortress, unless you think you can bunker down quickly. It also means that safer areas will be near the mountainhome - just build near there, and you'll often get dwarves that pass through on happenstance that can help save your fortress.Quote from: PuzzlemakerDo migrating armies show up in fortress mode? Is it possible to create a fortress that intercepts any armies heading towards your civilization?
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What if you make a natural blockade, and the only way through is through your fort? I set up a map like that, I haven't gotten around to testing it though. (map) There is a spot you can build that's a landbridge between the goblin and dwarf civilizations, the only way through. Would the game just crash, or would they just magically phase through?
If I remember, they phase. It was easier to handle the pathing/connectivity AI that way. Ideally, you'd be fully a part of the world. The only real problems I recall with that is the game-related one of early difficult attacks, and having the AI consider your intervening existence (they don't think much about intervening sites now because there are no battles). Maybe people should just have to eat those attacks now. The armies do lose time entering your fort's time warp, but that's not a huge deal if they are just crossing the space and exiting the other side.
I'm kinda hoping that's a scenario that will pop up when we get starting scenarios; "Build a fort at Tarwin's Gap; there's no strategic resources or anything of note, it's just the route the goblins use when they come to siege us. Be in their way."And instead of pathing into your fort, they try to go past it while you intercept them!
will a race (like goblins for example) be utterly terrified of you if you were to kill hundreds/thousands of them?I believe that ties in with reputation and kills - you can boast about your kills, so I think it's safe to say there's eventually going to be a good reason to do so.
I am perfectly ALL for having to deal with armies crossing your fortress site early on. It's realistic and it means you really, really don't want to pick a road or major highway as a site for your fortress, unless you think you can bunker down quickly. It also means that safer areas will be near the mountainhome - just build near there, and you'll often get dwarves that pass through on happenstance that can help save your fortress.
I am perfectly ALL for having to deal with armies crossing your fortress site early on. It's realistic and it means you really, really don't want to pick a road or major highway as a site for your fortress, unless you think you can bunker down quickly. It also means that safer areas will be near the mountainhome - just build near there, and you'll often get dwarves that pass through on happenstance that can help save your fortress.
Which actually reminds me,
Would embarking in, say, the same joyous forest that an elven civ has settled in, eventually be considered a breach of territorial claims and trigger hostility, and therefore a Very Bad Idea? What if the settlement is fairly far from the nearest forest retreat, hamlet etc.? How would territories and boundaries of civs in general work, while balancing out the gameplay? (since people might not examine every civ in legends mode and see which region is safe to colonise)
You can already filter the dialogue list: each question has a couple of keywords, and if you type those in at any moment during perusing the dialogue list, you can filter the list.Problem is, you can't filter by creature type. for example, if you forget the name of a titan, you can't filter by "titan" and find it out.
You can already filter the dialogue list: each question has a couple of keywords, and if you type those in at any moment during perusing the dialogue list, you can filter the list.Problem is, you can't filter by creature type. for example, if you forget the name of a titan, you can't filter by "titan" and find it out.
You can already filter the dialogue list: each question has a couple of keywords, and if you type those in at any moment during perusing the dialogue list, you can filter the list.Problem is, you can't filter by creature type. for example, if you forget the name of a titan, you can't filter by "titan" and find it out.
Also can't filter the conflict summaries by the names of anyone involved. There's lots of deficiences, but I think they'll get sorted out soon enough.
I tried something like that in 34.07 and it didn't work:Quote from: ValtamToady, is it possible to bring a dead body (say, from the wilderness) inside a fortress and memorialize it? Or does it need to be part of the fortress history to do so?
So like, bringing a dead body from faraway, dropping it in a fort, retiring, and then assuming control of the fort with the body there? Hmmm... I have no idea. I don't remember what comes along for the ride to maintain the identity of the body, and if that's the same stuff used in the memorial list (or if the memorial list relise on the unit-in-play list).
And every animal you see generate an event as if it was attacking you (even if it doesn't), so finding the relevant event is really difficult.You can however simulate being complete mad by standing in the town square and shouting about the raven that attacked you last week :D
go baby!
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post baby
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Just out of curiosity, what does this error set in the errorlog mean?Code: [Select]go baby!
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post baby
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Just out of curiosity, what does this error set in the errorlog mean?Code: [Select]go baby!
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post baby
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post clean
usz: 0
He he he, yeah, I left some baby test code in by accident. go baby! = enter the scheduled birth function, post baby = after babies are born, post clean = after it puts them away in their historical spots. the usz is the number of units in play at the time. We want the first number and the last number to be the same, except perhaps in weird edge cases. I'll try to remember to take it out for next time...
Are refuse stockpiles supposed to terrify certain dwarves?
Are refuse stockpiles supposed to terrify certain dwarves?
Does said refuse contain any body parts of dwarves? If so, then yes.
Are nomadic entities planned for the future, and if so, how would they be handled? We already have underground animal-men tribes, and I can see the current overworld animal-men forming roaming bands. (Centaurs maybe?) Would they also be drawn from existing entities, for example human outsider tribes?
Dwarf Fortress used to have nomads, and it's likely that they'll be back in some fashion, given that it is a historical human civ structure. Even now, occasional groups are called nomadic (I had that with a civ somehow only controlling a tomb, I think). For the most part, I expect they'll work much like existing entities and entity groups, being a mix of historical figures and faceless masses generated at the dawn of the world, as opposed to them drawing away from other civ sites, though the latter will probably happen as well.
I'm not going to green this question, but: For adventurers, in the 'Q' screen, both 'events' and 'groups' have the key set as 'e'. It toggles, however. Anyways, has this been reported yet?
Ok, thanks.I'm not going to green this question, but: For adventurers, in the 'Q' screen, both 'events' and 'groups' have the key set as 'e'. It toggles, however. Anyways, has this been reported yet?
Yup. (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=6996)
Would starting a war with the elves help as well?
Not sure about sending weapons home, but if the elves are at war with your civilization, any elven merchants you do see would be from a completely different elven civilization, so I don't think drowning their caravans to make them angry too would help at all.
Currently there are two ways of interacting with the world from fortress mode and theoretically have an impact in doing so. Through trade and through war (killing off sieges.) If you were too read (from your liason) that your dwarven home land was being invaded by elves, could trading weapons to your dwarven brethren help their cause and have a meaningful impact? Would starting a war with the elves help as well?
Deep sites weren't supposed to be in this release?Isn't that what the deep dwarven fortresses are? Maybe I got them confused at some point. My mistake, then.
The deep dwarven sites are in. Those are the dark grey ones in the center of the mountains, and they are only accessible by tunnels, I'm pretty sure.Huh, I haven't seen any, and I've been looking for them. I'll edit my post, though.
I haven't been to any, but I've seen them on the map.The deep dwarven sites are in. Those are the dark grey ones in the center of the mountains, and they are only accessible by tunnels, I'm pretty sure.Huh, I haven't seen any, and I've been looking for them. I'll edit my post, though.
- Babies don't start strapped with a knife
So the wiki had some new Secret Goal tokens listed: STAY_ALIVE, MAINTAIN_ENTITY_STATUS, START_A_FAMILY, RULE_THE_WORLD, CREATE_A_GREAT_WORK_OF_ART, CRAFT_A_MASTERWORK, BRING_PEACE_TO_THE_WORLD, BECOME_A_LEGENDARY_WARRIOR, MASTER_A_SKILL, FALL_IN_LOVE, SEE_THE_GREAT_NATURAL_SITES.
I imagine STAY_ALIVE is for people who are hunted or inflicted with disease and not for people obsessed with their own mortality.So the wiki had some new Secret Goal tokens listed: STAY_ALIVE, MAINTAIN_ENTITY_STATUS, START_A_FAMILY, RULE_THE_WORLD, CREATE_A_GREAT_WORK_OF_ART, CRAFT_A_MASTERWORK, BRING_PEACE_TO_THE_WORLD, BECOME_A_LEGENDARY_WARRIOR, MASTER_A_SKILL, FALL_IN_LOVE, SEE_THE_GREAT_NATURAL_SITES.
What's the difference between "STAY_ALIVE" and "IMMORTALITY"?
Yeah that makes sense. Stay alive doesn't seem to act as a secret motive during world-gen (as I mentioned with raw modification and world-gen test). It would make sense to have separate goals for those that just want to stay alive versus historical figures actively seeking immorality.I imagine STAY_ALIVE is for people who are hunted or inflicted with disease and not for people obsessed with their own mortality.So the wiki had some new Secret Goal tokens listed: STAY_ALIVE, MAINTAIN_ENTITY_STATUS, START_A_FAMILY, RULE_THE_WORLD, CREATE_A_GREAT_WORK_OF_ART, CRAFT_A_MASTERWORK, BRING_PEACE_TO_THE_WORLD, BECOME_A_LEGENDARY_WARRIOR, MASTER_A_SKILL, FALL_IN_LOVE, SEE_THE_GREAT_NATURAL_SITES.
What's the difference between "STAY_ALIVE" and "IMMORTALITY"?
None of them work at the moment AFAIK, so it's somewhat irrelevant.Yeah they are pretty much just fortress mode personality characteristics as far as I can tell.
Perhaps STAY_ALIVE is the default, since it is the de facto motive of all living beings?Could be. Which means it really shouldn't work for secret goals. Would be awkward if everyone went necromancer, only to have nothing to animate. It doesn't seem to show up in the XML export if I recall correctly, though.
Perhaps STAY_ALIVE is the default, since it is the de facto motive of all living beings?Could be. Which means it really shouldn't work for secret goals. Would be awkward if everyone went necromancer, only to have nothing to animate. It doesn't seem to show up in the XML export if I recall correctly, though.
or [BRING_PEACE_TO_THE_WORLD]Perhaps STAY_ALIVE is the default, since it is the de facto motive of all living beings?Could be. Which means it really shouldn't work for secret goals. Would be awkward if everyone went necromancer, only to have nothing to animate. It doesn't seem to show up in the XML export if I recall correctly, though.
"Is your secret goal to stay alive?"
"I'm not saying."
"Do you mean to say that you don't want to stay alive?"
"No, just saying I'm not saying what my secret goal is."
"It's not like staying alive is a bad thing. Come on, you can tell me."
"I'm not telling you my secret goal, all right?"
"I think your secret goal is to stay alive, and you're just embarrassed to -- Gaaaaaaa!"
"No, actually my secret goal is to rid the world of really annoying people."
Perhaps STAY_ALIVE is the default, since it is the de facto motive of all living beings?
Perhaps STAY_ALIVE is the default, since it is the de facto motive of all living beings?
Maybe. Though I'd think it might drive caution and cowardice instead, and be the opposite of some new deathwish-like tag such as DIE_IN_BATTLE.
Are armor and weapon modifications (like thin, rectangular etc.) different from the unmodificated item? If yes, can you tell us what is changed? And what properties does the vault-clothing has?
And a question to the community: what does PTW mean (I'm not a native speaker)? I guess something like thank you, but I couldn't find the proper meaning for this abbreviation. Google told me that it means "poison the well"...Posting to Watch (so any new posts to thread makes it come up in your feed of new responses). Try Urban Dictionary next time you are looking for internet slang.
And a question to the community: what does PTW mean (I'm not a native speaker)? I guess something like thank you, but I couldn't find the proper meaning for this abbreviation. Google told me that it means "poison the well"...
If I'm not mistaken, most people who 'post to watch' do so because once you've posted in a thread, new replies appear when you click "Show new replies to your posts". It's purely a matter of quickly tracking specific threads from a single screen, if I'm remembering correctly.
How are culture differences going to be handled?
Will different cultures within the same species, or different civilizations, have distinct behaviour? Will there be something else besides trained practices and probability range of personality traits? How will it matter for the AI? Will it be moddable, and if so, how and to which extent?
Posting to Watch (so any new posts to thread makes it come up in your feed of new responses). Try Urban Dictionary next time you are looking for internet slang.Yeah, but even then there's context that might escape a non-native speaker. When I first looked up PTW as a slang term, the Internet tried to tell me it means "pass the weed."
Man, that bugfix changelog's (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/changelog_page.php) getting pretty tall.
•stopped hyper-obese digesting dwarves from constantly recalculating insulation/mass data (UristDaVinci)
0005971: Fat dwarves eating causes lagInsert yo mama joke about gravitational time dilation here.
Wasted CPU can be expected to be on the order of 5-10%
Man, that bugfix changelog's (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/changelog_page.php) getting pretty tall.
I like how Toady's fixing all these smaller issues. They're quick changes most of the time, and fixing them really adds to the game's polish. I'd rather 10 small bugs be fixed than one major big bug (unless the latter bug is gamebreaking, of which not many are left).
I'm especially looking forward to elven diplomats coming back in the coming version.
2. Actually Ag solved that bug - I had nothing to do with it: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5971
I also cleaned up some problems with the projectile code to move them over to a slightly more acceptable place, though there are doubtless some issues. Fixing a rounding error screwed up a lot of the other analysis, so I still had to wing it for now.
Can we expect any significant performance improvements from the next few updates? You mentioned that you fixed calendar lag, and that this should have some impact on fortress mode, which sounds good. The framerate in fortress mode quickly becomes unbearable, despite keeping worlds and region sizes as meager as possible. My current fortress has about 100 pop, is 3 years old, and has breached two cave systems. I have an average of 39 FPS. This is without much clutter: my corridors are currently free of any goblin bodyparts.The big activated world feature of this release means that the Calender is running at all times during gameplay. The Calender being basically all AI-interactions outside of your direct game.
I remember similar performance issues during the first few 3D releases.
Can we expect any significant performance improvements from the next few updates? You mentioned that you fixed calendar lag, and that this should have some impact on fortress mode, which sounds good. The framerate in fortress mode quickly becomes unbearable, despite keeping worlds and region sizes as meager as possible. My current fortress has about 100 pop, is 3 years old, and has breached two cave systems. I have an average of 39 FPS. This is without much clutter: my corridors are currently free of any goblin bodyparts.The big activated world feature of this release means that the Calender is running at all times during gameplay. The Calender being basically all AI-interactions outside of your direct game.
I remember similar performance issues during the first few 3D releases.
Any optimisations to the Calender is also an optimisation to fort mode. In fact, if I am not mistaken, fort mode's lag is precisely because of the Calender being unoptimised.
EDIT: On second thought, there may now be more pathing issues due to trees as well as birds and the new climb/jump mechanics.
It will never go fully back to previous levels, because the Calender is a huge part of Dwarf Fortress as a game, but it will definitely be optimised.
Can we expect any significant performance improvements from the next few updates? You mentioned that you fixed calendar lag, and that this should have some impact on fortress mode, which sounds good. The framerate in fortress mode quickly becomes unbearable, despite keeping worlds and region sizes as meager as possible. My current fortress has about 100 pop, is 3 years old, and has breached two cave systems. I have an average of 39 FPS. This is without much clutter: my corridors are currently free of any goblin bodyparts.
I remember similar performance issues during the first few 3D releases.
Hello!
Are there plans to go into addressing the limitations and crash bugs in world gen during the current short term debugging?
Personally, I like to gen medium worlds with a history of 500 years (actually, I would love to run the default 1050 years, but this is currently impossible), and even with less than 400 years, the game often crashes, either while creating the world or finalizing sites or other things. So, I am curious whether I still have to remain careful about this.
Yours,
Deathworks
This sounds like the crash you're talking about (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=6752), but I don't think I've seen corroboration for 0.40.03+. As always, crashing sets of world gen params are useful.
07/25/2014 The bug processing continued today.
Are there any plans for some default raw tweaks to areas of the game that likely aren't going to come back into development focus for a while but aren't necessarily bugs? There are two specific examples I'm thinking of. Firstly aboveground animal people aren't very interesting yet (DFTalk #3) and at [FREQUENCY:100] (adopted value from the parent creature) many of the (much more interesting) giant creature varieties are almost never seen in the lifetime of an average fortress in a savage biome. Secondly, while thematically interesting, having dragons grow linearly over 1000 years often leaves players disappointed when their fortress is attacked by a youngish dragon, especially new players who don't realise there is a long growth time, or that it can be modded, and are anticipating oodles of Fun when one arrives.
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5462 This bug is about the animal man, and it's marked as Probably Quick Fix, maybe today Toady will fix it.
As per this thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=141276.0), it appears that many of the new plants are currently non-functional.
We players could probably restore some of that functionality (making them processable, brewable, etc), but I was wondering: are these plants a priority to be fixed as part of the tree/plant improvements that are part of this version, and should we expect them to be fully implemented as part of the current wave of bugfixing? Could we players effectively "fix" them ourselves with functions already extant in the game? Or are they unfinished because you want to add additional tags/mechanisms that will use these placeholder plants?
Given the latest news regarding fixes to long-time bugs, will military dwarves automatically prefer the weapon they are carrying when activated and assigned to a uniform with the individual weapon option included? It'd be nice to have a properly-working "minuteman" militia composed of miners, woodcutters, hunters, and rangers that could immediately arm themselves and defend the fort.
Given the latest news regarding fixes to long-time bugs, will military dwarves automatically prefer the weapon they are carrying when activated and assigned to a uniform with the individual weapon option included? It'd be nice to have a properly-working "minuteman" militia composed of miners, woodcutters, hunters, and rangers that could immediately arm themselves and defend the fort.
When requesting a bug fix, it never hurts to link the report (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=1451).
Core94, RANDOMIZED REGIONS AND THEIR FLORA/FAUNA, (Future): The current good/evil regions should be scrapped and replaced by a system that aligns a region to varying degrees with a set of spheres. In this way you could end up with a desert where the stones sing or a forest where the trees bleed, with all sorts of randomly generated creatures and plants that are appropriate to the sphere settings. It's important that randomly generated objects be introduced to the player carefully during play rather than just being thrown one after another to allow for immersion, though there's also something to be said for cold dumping the player in a world with completely random settings, provided they can access enough information by looking/listening and having conversations, etc.
Bloat238, REGIONAL EVIL EXPLANATIONS, (Future): Right now, the regions just go bad or good without explanation. There needs to be a backdrop for this, even if magic isn't in the game yet. The evil could be linked to certain historical figures in the region that need to be removed or else the evil keeps replenishing.
I'm just asking when and how?
Right now, AFAIK, every evil area has foul fog, evil rain, AND undead. When do you plan to give evil areas more variance/personality? For the most part, you've already explained your vision for non-binary good/evil sphere aligned areas, corruption by historical events and malevolent intelligences, and cleansing/purification, so mostly I'm just asking when and how? Like, what sort of stuff would go along with this or happen at the same time, and what needs to be in the game before you can even start working on this?Generally, questions of when get the answer "No timeline, but it's planned", and questions of how get the answer "We haven't worked out the details yet." As you quoted yourself, the eventual plan is to scrap the Good/Evil regions in favor of sphere-influenced lands, and Toady has mentioned that not all spheres would be suitable to become land-influencing. I'd actually say that many of the moving parts required are already in place. We have randomly-generated creatures, we have interactions, we have sphere links on materials (though technically they wouldn't be placed yet), we have the ability to generate things after history starts running (because, let's face it, it's always !!sad!! when DF generates stuff that can never see the light of day - many of the generated evil weathers, and now spoiler materials, and depending on your settings, unique demons won't be used anywhere). There's still several moving parts that are needed to make those regions interesting, I'd say, as well as lots of detail work, but I'd say Toady might be able to add it in now.
Right now, AFAIK, every evil area has foul fog, evil rain, AND undead. When do you plan to give evil areas more variance/personality? For the most part, you've already explained your vision for non-binary good/evil sphere aligned areas, corruption by historical events and malevolent intelligences, and cleansing/purification, so mostly I'm just asking when and how? Like, what sort of stuff would go along with this or happen at the same time, and what needs to be in the game before you can even start working on this?Generally, questions of when get the answer "No timeline, but it's planned", and questions of how get the answer "We haven't worked out the details yet." As you quoted yourself, the eventual plan is to scrap the Good/Evil regions in favor of sphere-influenced lands, and Toady has mentioned that not all spheres would be suitable to become land-influencing. I'd actually say that many of the moving parts required are already in place. We have randomly-generated creatures, we have interactions, we have sphere links on materials (though technically they wouldn't be placed yet), we have the ability to generate things after history starts running (because, let's face it, it's always !!sad!! when DF generates stuff that can never see the light of day - many of the generated evil weathers, and now spoiler materials, and depending on your settings, unique demons won't be used anywhere). There's still several moving parts that are needed to make those regions interesting, I'd say, as well as lots of detail work, but I'd say Toady might be able to add it in now.
Right now, AFAIK, every evil area has foul fog, evil rain, AND undead. When do you plan to give evil areas more variance/personality? For the most part, you've already explained your vision for non-binary good/evil sphere aligned areas, corruption by historical events and malevolent intelligences, and cleansing/purification, so mostly I'm just asking when and how? Like, what sort of stuff would go along with this or happen at the same time, and what needs to be in the game before you can even start working on this?Generally, questions of when get the answer "No timeline, but it's planned", and questions of how get the answer "We haven't worked out the details yet." As you quoted yourself, the eventual plan is to scrap the Good/Evil regions in favor of sphere-influenced lands, and Toady has mentioned that not all spheres would be suitable to become land-influencing. I'd actually say that many of the moving parts required are already in place. We have randomly-generated creatures, we have interactions, we have sphere links on materials (though technically they wouldn't be placed yet), we have the ability to generate things after history starts running (because, let's face it, it's always !!sad!! when DF generates stuff that can never see the light of day - many of the generated evil weathers, and now spoiler materials, and depending on your settings, unique demons won't be used anywhere). There's still several moving parts that are needed to make those regions interesting, I'd say, as well as lots of detail work, but I'd say Toady might be able to add it in now.
Animal people and giant animals had a frequency rewrite (thanks to ab9rf for looking at that closely).
What does it really mean when they say "It was inevitable"?
What does it really mean when they say "It was inevitable"?
I've been assuming it means they're indifferent to the whatever.
Seems to me like a version of "It is sad, but not unexpected" without the sadness.What does it really mean when they say "It was inevitable"?
I've been assuming it means they're indifferent to the whatever.
That can't be: They have the option to say "I don't care either way".
So my question still stands.
Maybe it was something they wanted to do and would have done if you hadn't.Or since they live in a violent world, the are desensitized to mass murder.
It would be helpful to find a similar set of parameters for 0.40.04 (or whatever newest release is available).
[WORLD_GEN]
[TITLE:MEDIUM REGION]
[SEED:123Doom123]
[HISTORY_SEED:123Doom123]
[NAME_SEED:123Doom123]
[CREATURE_SEED:123Doom123]
[DIM:129:129]
[EMBARK_POINTS:10000]
[END_YEAR:330]
[BEAST_END_YEAR:200:-1]
[REVEAL_ALL_HISTORY:1]
[CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:0]
[ELEVATION:1:400:1200:401]
[RAINFALL:0:100:200:200]
[TEMPERATURE:25:75:200:200]
[DRAINAGE:0:100:200:500]
[VOLCANISM:0:100:3200:3200]
[SAVAGERY:0:100:300:200]
[ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[RAIN_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[MINERAL_SCARCITY:500]
[MEGABEAST_CAP:25]
[SEMIMEGABEAST_CAP:50]
[TITAN_NUMBER:10]
[TITAN_ATTACK_TRIGGER:400:1000000:1000000]
[DEMON_NUMBER:30]
[NIGHT_TROLL_NUMBER:14]
[BOGEYMAN_NUMBER:14]
[VAMPIRE_NUMBER:0]
[WEREBEAST_NUMBER:0]
[SECRET_NUMBER:0]
[REGIONAL_INTERACTION_NUMBER:28]
[DISTURBANCE_INTERACTION_NUMBER:28]
[EVIL_CLOUD_NUMBER:14]
[EVIL_RAIN_NUMBER:14]
[GENERATE_DIVINE_MATERIALS:1]
[GOOD_SQ_COUNTS:200:300:800]
[EVIL_SQ_COUNTS:200:300:800]
[PEAK_NUMBER_MIN:20]
[PARTIAL_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:2]
[COMPLETE_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:1]
[VOLCANO_MIN:200]
[REGION_COUNTS:SWAMP:260:1:1]
[REGION_COUNTS:DESERT:260:1:1]
[REGION_COUNTS:FOREST:1500:3:3]
[REGION_COUNTS:MOUNTAINS:1500:2:2]
[REGION_COUNTS:OCEAN:1000:1:1]
[REGION_COUNTS:GLACIER:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:TUNDRA:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:GRASSLAND:1500:3:3]
[REGION_COUNTS:HILLS:1500:3:3]
[EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT:1000]
[RIVER_MINS:300:100]
[PERIODICALLY_ERODE_EXTREMES:0]
[OROGRAPHIC_PRECIPITATION:1]
[SUBREGION_MAX:5000]
[CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:3]
[CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:0]
[CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:100]
[CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:0]
[CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:100]
[CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MIN:0]
[CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MAX:100]
[HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_1:1]
[HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_2:1]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_GROUND:15]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1:13]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_2:5]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_3:5]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_4:5]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_5:5]
[LEVELS_AT_BOTTOM:3]
[CAVE_MIN_SIZE:5]
[CAVE_MAX_SIZE:200]
[MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:30]
[NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:60]
[ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE:0]
[SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:2]
[TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:40]
[TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:-1]
[SITE_CAP:-1]
[PLAYABLE_CIVILIZATION_REQUIRED:1]
[ELEVATION_RANGES:0:0:0]
[RAIN_RANGES:0:0:0]
[DRAINAGE_RANGES:0:0:0]
[SAVAGERY_RANGES:0:0:0]
[VOLCANISM_RANGES:0:0:0]
Maybe it was something they wanted to do and would have done if you hadn't.Or since they live in a violent world, the are desensitized to mass murder.
crashy world params
The future of that particular fortress is... bleak.crashy world params
The bug tracker (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/bug_report_page.php) is probably a more helpful place to post crashes than this thread.
What is the deal with underground animal men turning into vampires? There a lot of them running around, killing people at towns, and it looks like they don't mind to hide their identities as a vampire. In legends I saw one that got cursed by a god by profaning a temple, this is intended?It is intended that Animal Men become vampires or the frequencies of Animal Men Vampires intended?
What is the deal with underground animal men turning into vampires? There a lot of them running around, killing people at towns, and it looks like they don't mind to hide their identities as a vampire. In legends I saw one that got cursed by a god by profaning a temple, this is intended?It is intended that Animal Men become vampires or the frequencies of Animal Men Vampires intended?
Now that the population cap has been fixed, does this mean we will still get migrants when the units list gets exceptionally large? In at least 0.34.11, when the units list totalled over 1,000 units (dead or alive, not just citizens) the number of migrants started to drop significantly.
It seems like the game is getting in order more and more! Hopefully it should now be possible to run a succession game with most things fixed.
Profaning temples is the normal way to become a vampire. The only problem is, where do these animal people find temples to profane; aren't they all on the surface in cities? So I guess it is probably a bug; underground populations shouldn't profane temples.What is the deal with underground animal men turning into vampires? There a lot of them running around, killing people at towns, and it looks like they don't mind to hide their identities as a vampire. In legends I saw one that got cursed by a god by profaning a temple, this is intended?It is intended that Animal Men become vampires or the frequencies of Animal Men Vampires intended?
The fact that they are profaning temples.
Profaning temples is the normal way to become a vampire. The only problem is, where do these animal people find temples to profane; aren't they all on the surface in cities? So I guess it is probably a bug; underground populations shouldn't profane temples.I'm pretty sure the animal people who profane temples come from among those outcasts that occasionally settle in those cities with temples.
Profaning temples is the normal way to become a vampire. The only problem is, where do these animal people find temples to profane; aren't they all on the surface in cities? So I guess it is probably a bug; underground populations shouldn't profane temples.I'm pretty sure the animal people who profane temples come from among those outcasts that occasionally settle in those cities with temples.
Can you make this release's new dialogue more moddable? In the game's data/speech folder, you can change a lot of the stuff people say in adventure mode, but the new dialogue ("It is inevitable", etc) hasn't been added yet.
The purpose of the thread is to discuss current developments. Specific bugs should be reported on the bug tracker (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/), and specific suggestions belong for the most part in the suggestion forum (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=5.0).
Profaning temples is the normal way to become a vampire. The only problem is, where do these animal people find temples to profane; aren't they all on the surface in cities? So I guess it is probably a bug; underground populations shouldn't profane temples.I'm pretty sure the animal people who profane temples come from among those outcasts that occasionally settle in those cities with temples.
Whenever I see an animal person in a human civilization, I can with 90% certain say that it is definitely a vampire. I have yet to incorrectly call out a vampire from a flashing animal-person.
Now that the population cap has been fixed, does this mean we will still get migrants when the units list gets exceptionally large? In at least 0.34.11, when the units list totalled over 1,000 units (dead or alive, not just citizens) the number of migrants started to drop significantly.
It seems like the game is getting in order more and more! Hopefully it should now be possible to run a succession game with most things fixed.
While the units list including dead or alive units is probably a bug, it makes sense to me that fortresses with 1000 alive units (!) should get fewer migrants until the FPS threat has passed, for performance reasons. Eventually, when the number of citizens is very large, emigration should happen.
Will cobalt be added?Looking at the wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt#History), it doesn't seem to me that it would fit with the rough historical/technological frame that has been set for DF.
Will cobalt be added?Looking at the wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt#History), it doesn't seem to me that it would fit with the rough historical/technological frame that has been set for DF.
It would probably be fairly trivial to add with a mod, though.
[INORGANIC:COBALT]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:METAL_TEMPLATE
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:cobalt]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:molten cobalt]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling cobalt]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:0:7:1]
[BUILD_COLOR:0:7:1]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
[SPEC_HEAT:421]
[MELTING_POINT:12691]
[BOILING_POINT:15269]
[SOLID_DENSITY:8900]
[LIQUID_DENSITY:7750]
[MOLAR_MASS:58933]
[IMPACT_YIELD:787500]
[IMPACT_FRACTURE:1575000]
[IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:437]
[COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:787500]
[COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:1575000]
[COMPRESSIVE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:437] bulk modulus 180 GPa
[TENSILE_YIELD:225000]
[TENSILE_FRACTURE:450000]
[TENSILE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:107] young's modulus 209 GPa
[TORSION_YIELD:225000]
[TORSION_FRACTURE:450000]
[TORSION_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:107]
[SHEAR_YIELD:225000]
[SHEAR_FRACTURE:450000]
[SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:300] shear modulus 75 GPa
[BENDING_YIELD:225000]
[BENDING_FRACTURE:450000]
[BENDING_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:300]
[MAX_EDGE:10000]
[STATE_COLOR:ALL:GRAY]
will you ever optimize the game, so that, say, i can run a 200 dwarf fort at 100 fps for 20 ingame years?
will you ever optimize the game, so that, say, i can run a 200 dwarf fort at 100 fps for 20 ingame years?
It's most definitely not a bug - there is explicit logic in the migrant code (known to exist in 0.34 and dating back to at least 0.23, if not the very first release) which checks the size of the in-play Units list (including dead invaders and livestock) in order to limit the number of migrants that can arrive; once it reaches 1000, it limits you to 10 (though I'm pretty sure auto-generated pets and family members didn't count), and once it reaches 3000, migrants stop entirely.Now that the population cap has been fixed, does this mean we will still get migrants when the units list gets exceptionally large? In at least 0.34.11, when the units list totalled over 1,000 units (dead or alive, not just citizens) the number of migrants started to drop significantly.
It seems like the game is getting in order more and more! Hopefully it should now be possible to run a succession game with most things fixed.
While the units list including dead or alive units is probably a bug, it makes sense to me that fortresses with 1000 alive units (!) should get fewer migrants until the FPS threat has passed, for performance reasons. Eventually, when the number of citizens is very large, emigration should happen.
How extensive will be the changes required to fix invasions at the moment, which appear to be broken? It appears to have something to do with neighbours not pathing correctly, though there may well be other reasons. Has the "army will camp forever" message something to do with goblin armies not moving?
I've posted a bug report about this; I'm not sure, if the visibly bugged neighbours list in the embark screen is connected to this (neighbours can literally disappear at the moment of embark seemingly) but invasions are definitely missing from my experience and many others.
How did you decide upon CP-437 as the encoding of choice for the game? And do you still think it's a decent choice?
How do you plan to rework the tree-cap diplomacy of the elves? Singling out one particular tree and not telling you would be pretty !!FUN!!ny (and a little faeish, which I've always pictured elves as being), but would go into luck-based mission territory imo. Or is it the whole civ and the culture, that are changing?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
will a race (like goblins for example) be utterly terrified of you if you were to kill hundreds/thousands of them? and would they be scared of a weapon used to kill many of there kind?
Quote from: samanatoWould embarking in, say, the same joyous forest that an elven civ has settled in, eventually be considered a breach of territorial claims and trigger hostility, and therefore a Very Bad Idea? What if the settlement is fairly far from the nearest forest retreat, hamlet etc.? How would territories and boundaries of civs in general work, while balancing out the gameplay?Quote from: DirstWhen civilizations get recognizable borders, how will we recognize them? Will we be prevented from embarking in anyone else's territory, or at least anyone we're not at war with?
Are refuse stockpiles supposed to terrify certain dwarves?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
In one of older version there were those unnamed whatever underground animal men civilizations, what is the plan for those? Is every type of animal men going to have their own tribal civilization or were those 7 underground "civilizations" placeholders for something else?
Are we going to see plant genetics and cultivar breeding in future?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Can you be at war with a civilization from one race and still get merchants from a different civilization of that race now?
Quote from: ScruiserSTAY_ALIVE, MAINTAIN_ENTITY_STATUS, START_A_FAMILY, RULE_THE_WORLD, CREATE_A_GREAT_WORK_OF_ART, CRAFT_A_MASTERWORK, BRING_PEACE_TO_THE_WORLD, BECOME_A_LEGENDARY_WARRIOR, MASTER_A_SKILL, FALL_IN_LOVE, SEE_THE_GREAT_NATURAL_SITES.
Were these tokens only added to go with the new personality update or do they also indicate near term plans for expansion to secret motivations?Quote from: twentytentaclesWhat's the difference between "STAY_ALIVE" and "IMMORTALITY"?
Are there major differences between the historical resolution that happens in world-gen and the historical resolution that happens in the calendar between games? If so, what are the biggest differences?
Version 0.40 added GET_ITEM_DATA and ITEM_REACTION_PRODUCT so reactions can create different types of items depending on what material they're given. In previous versions, you could use GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:reagent:NONE to directly copy the material from a reagent (instead of specifying a MATERIAL_REACTION_PRODUCT), but using GET_ITEM_DATA:reagent:NONE appears to simply not produce an item - is this something that's supposed to work, or something that you weren't expecting anybody to do?
Do the AI-controlled climbing creatures consider the wall/cliff/whatever height for their increased climbing cost?
The new stealth mechanics are integrated in some way in fortress mode?
are these plants a priority to be fixed as part of the tree/plant improvements that are part of this version, and should we expect them to be fully implemented as part of the current wave of bugfixing? Could we players effectively "fix" them ourselves with functions already extant in the game? Or are they unfinished because you want to add additional tags/mechanisms that will use these placeholder plants?
What does it really mean when they say "It was inevitable"?
What determines whether a civ will use words from other languages to name their gods? It doesn't seem to be random chance - apparently, dwarves will do so more readily than other civs.
What is the deal with underground animal men turning into vampires? There a lot of them running around, killing people at towns, and it looks like they don't mind to hide their identities as a vampire. In legends I saw one that got cursed by a god by profaning a temple, this is intended?
What kind of and in what format do you find suggestions most helpful?
I.e. of the following elements which is more useful: A quick idea, a detailed summary, hypothetical tags and RAWs for an idea, detailed implementations, back and forth discussion over a contentious idea, research about historical background, free-form brainstorming, etc.
Now that the population cap has been fixed, does this mean we will still get migrants when the units list gets exceptionally large? In at least 0.34.11, when the units list totalled over 1,000 units (dead or alive, not just citizens) the number of migrants started to drop significantly.
How extensive will be the changes required to fix invasions at the moment, which appear to be broken? It appears to have something to do with neighbours not pathing correctly, though there may well be other reasons. Has the "army will camp forever" message something to do with goblin armies not moving?
I've posted a bug report about this; I'm not sure, if the visibly bugged neighbours list in the embark screen is connected to this (neighbours can literally disappear at the moment of embark seemingly) but invasions are definitely missing from my experience and many others.
Probably the wrong spot for this, but I've seen complaints about how much of a FPS hit .40 is due to the calendar/worldgen thing. What if worldgen was run at a certain point every year? (Say, just before the liason is triggered?)Suggestions forum if you want to talk about any specific details (I'll see you over there if you want to talk ;D). If it really is just a question about the FPS of world-gen, you probably want to reword it and not ask for a specific idea (the "worldgen was run at a certain point every year").
Probably the wrong spot for this, but I've seen complaints about how much of a FPS hit .40 is due to the calendar/worldgen thing. What if worldgen was run at a certain point every year? (Say, just before the liason is triggered?)
It means pretty much that I haven't gotten around to giving them something better to say, even if there was a reputation change etc., due to time constraints as much as anything. Certain conversation replies default to boring things, and it was inevitable is the bottom of the bucket.
QuoteIt means pretty much that I haven't gotten around to giving them something better to say, even if there was a reputation change etc., due to time constraints as much as anything. Certain conversation replies default to boring things, and it was inevitable is the bottom of the bucket.
Thank you, this answer made me burst out in laughter.
I'm now imagining all "it was inevitable" being said with an expression of being slightly at loss for words:
Adventurer: I slayed the mighty dragon!
Lady: ...Whu... It was... inevitable?
Reactions will also trim away pieces of bodies properly. All jobs that affect body components (anything that uses bone, for example) will now carve away pieces of the body component, which'll leave a "partially butchered" wound type on the limbs etc. that were used in jobs if the skeleton is animated. Leather from skins is still not computed according to size, though -- that's a slightly more difficult problem since they use a custom product tag for tanning.
I've cooked up a save for a bug report I'll post later today, but I think I've found a similarity between the divinities - the divinities in question are the improper-named ones (The Strong Call, the Bewilderment of Cats).Quote from: Knight OtuWhat determines whether a civ will use words from other languages to name their gods? It doesn't seem to be random chance - apparently, dwarves will do so more readily than other civs.
Just looking at the code, it seems to be feeding in the entity's language index, so there shouldn't be other languages. Probably just a bug, unless I'm misunderstanding. The choice of words is determined by the spheres, and that can go away from the preferred entity words, but they should all be in the dwarf language.
It means pretty much that I haven't gotten around to giving them something better to say, even if there was a reputation change etc., due to time constraints as much as anything. Certain conversation replies default to boring things, and it was inevitable is the bottom of the bucket.It was inevitable that it was inevitable is the bottom of the bucket.
QuoteIt means pretty much that I haven't gotten around to giving them something better to say, even if there was a reputation change etc., due to time constraints as much as anything. Certain conversation replies default to boring things, and it was inevitable is the bottom of the bucket.
Thank you, this answer made me burst out in laughter.
I'm now imagining all "it was inevitable" being said with an expression of being slightly at loss for words:
Adventurer: I slayed the mighty dragon!
Lady: ...Whu... It was... inevitable?
I was picturing it as more DF's equivalent of "Yeah, Whatever."
Adventurer: I slayed the mighty dragon!
Lady: It was inevitable. What, you want a medal or something?
Some more bugs were eaten by toad...Heh.
On a slightly longer term front, do we know what the current goals are after adding useful smaller features like job priorities? Are we getting around to sending out dwarf mode armies now / all of the old Army Arc ideas given that we now have an active world with real diplomacy to play with? Or is it going to be more improvements for adventure mode?
hey,toady.Yes.
Are there any plans to degrade item quality over time?It seems weird that you cannot see the dents and scratches in the armor that you find in lairs,or find them partly rusted. You cannot see blades broken in half,smashed-in helmets rendered unusable by the fierce blows of a silver warhammer,or simply swords and daggers losing their edge when used often.It would make quality armor much rarer,and you would not have piles of items everywhere(THOUSAND year old socks? stolen iron greaves in kobold caves,hundreds of years old,even if iron held in crappy conditions rusts away really fast?).It would also make scrapping and repairing broken equipment a much more essential part of the fortress mode-cannot mine with a broken pick,can you?It would make the game much more entertaining and long-lasting,when you cannot dig straight for the cotton candy.
Req149, FINISH ITEM DAMAGE, (Future): Fully implement item wear-and-tear, especially during combat. People throwing tantrums should be able to damage items in their square rather than just throwing them.
Req164, ITEM DAMAGE ISSUES, (Future): Handle projectile damage for odd objects. There are also problems with projectile damage being used when ammo is used in close combat
Bloat308, QUALITY/DAMAGE CUSTOM STOCKPILES, (Future): Allow stockpiles to specify quality/damage state.
Quote from: TalvienoAre refuse stockpiles supposed to terrify certain dwarves?
Are they being terrified by dead dwarf bodies? That's supposed to be scary, but there was that thing I mentioned back when I was talking about quests, where things like teeth would scare them under certain circumstances. I think there's probably a little too much flipping out as opposed to just negative thoughts, and that'll change when I do that thought rewrite I need to finish before job priorities.
Will removing teeth/tongues ever impair/inhibit speech?Ever is a long time. So, probably yes.
Will removing teeth/tongues ever impair/inhibit speech?Ever is a long time. So, probably yes.
Looking into interaction details revealed two new breath attack types: TRAILING_ITEM_FLOW and UNDIRECTED_ITEM_CLOUD. How exactly are they used? Do they work with both CDI and IT_MATERIAL?For what's it's worth, this is an item breath that I believe works as well as any item breath currently will work (that is, no damage, item spatter coloring the floor, etc)
(I'm guessing "no" for IT_MATERIAL, since it's only used with weather effects, and there's no WEATHER_CREEPING_ITEM or WEATHER_FALLING_ITEM, as amusing as it would be to have it rain fish or have a cloud of locusts drift by)
[CAN_DO_INTERACTION:MATERIAL_EMISSION]
[CDI:ADV_NAME:Shoot disks]
[CDI:USAGE_HINT:ATTACK]
[CDI:BP_REQUIRED:BY_TOKEN:LH2]
[CDI:MATERIAL:INORGANIC:IRON:TRAILING_ITEM_FLOW:TRAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_LARGESERRATEDDISC]
[CDI:VERB:shoot large disks:shoots large disks:NA]
[CDI:TARGET:C:LINE_OF_SIGHT]
[CDI:TARGET_RANGE:C:15]
[CDI:MAX_TARGET_NUMBER:C:1]
[CDI:WAIT_PERIOD:2400]
Stopped dwarves from breeding like animals, technically speaking
QuoteStopped dwarves from breeding like animals, technically speaking
So... what exactly does this mean?
It was that dwarves were calling their own code but also the animal breeding code, which just picks out a dwarf male somewhere to be the father.
Stopped dwarves from breeding like animals, technically speaking
I put in a preliminary fix for backspace not working on OSX, but we'll have to see how that turns out.
Yeah, this.Quote from: Toady OneI put in a preliminary fix for backspace not working on OSX, but we'll have to see how that turns out.
Thanks so much! It was bugging me for ages!
Stopped dwarves from breeding like animals, technically speakingI will transfer saves to and from this version (40.06) periodically when I want to have a year of out of wedlock births. With some self-narration I can build up some pretty interesting stories. This is also great if I have a dead civ and I want to rebuild it quickly. No need for those long slow buildups of relationships!
I hope no one asking for stories anymore for the donations stops you from offering in the futureErr... where did that come from?
I mean this in that I like reading, and the fact no one ask for stories after donating makes me worry they will no longer be an option eventually.
I have to admit I never really tried it, but I rather doubt that saves are generally backwards-compatible, just forwards-compatible.Quote from: Toady OneStopped dwarves from breeding like animals, technically speakingI will transfer saves to and from this version (40.06) periodically when I want to have a year of out of wedlock births. With some self-narration I can build up some pretty interesting stories. This is also great if I have a dead civ and I want to rebuild it quickly. No need for those long slow buildups of relationships!
I hope no one asking for stories anymore for the donations stops you from offering in the futurehm? Zavvnao, the story reward is not the same as the threetoe stories, story reward is only a few hundred words. Threetoe just hasn't finished any new large stories in the meantime. Though I'm sure he's flattered by you missing that :)
I mean this in that I like reading, and the fact no one ask for stories after donating makes me worry they will no longer be an option eventually.
Transferring saves to previous versions generally isn't a good idea - any "patches" made to the save when loading it for the first time in a new version (the "Handling compatibility issues..." stage) are one-way, since implementing the reverse procedure wouldn't be possible in already-released versions. Attempting to load a save from a newer version could cause a variety of difficult-to-diagnose problems (or DF could simply refuse to recognize/load them).Quote from: Toady OneStopped dwarves from breeding like animals, technically speakingI will transfer saves to and from this version (40.06) periodically when I want to have a year of out of wedlock births. With some self-narration I can build up some pretty interesting stories. This is also great if I have a dead civ and I want to rebuild it quickly. No need for those long slow buildups of relationships!
I hope no one asking for stories anymore for the donations stops you from offering in the futurehm? Zavvnao, the story reward is not the same as the threetoe stories, story reward is only a few hundred words. Threetoe just hasn't finished any new large stories in the meantime. Though I'm sure he's flattered by you missing that :)
I mean this in that I like reading, and the fact no one ask for stories after donating makes me worry they will no longer be an option eventually.
- 0003981: [Dwarf Mode -- Jobs, Farming/Farmer's Workshop] Having multiple active beekeepers causes dwarves with "Installing Colony in Hive" Job to become stuck (Toady One) - resolved.
- 0006368: [Dwarf Mode -- Jobs, Farming/Farmer's Workshop] Crash if bees die in a hive with yet ungathered products. (Toady One) - resolved.
- 0004014: [Dwarf Mode -- Jobs, Cancellation and Suspension] "Dwarf cancels Install Colony in Hive: Could not find Path" drops FPS (Toady One) - resolved.
- 0005726: [Dwarf Mode -- Interface, Announcements: Message Spam] Beehives + burrow = "cancels Install Colony In Hive: Forbidden area" (Toady One) - resolved.
- 0004223: [Dwarf Mode -- Jobs, Farming/Farmer's Workshop] Dwarves don't "split" bee hives, only use wild ones (Toady One) - resolved.
- 0003961: [Dwarf Mode -- Interface, Tasks] Dwarf interrupted during beehive stocking doesn't lose job (Toady One) - resolved.
Transferring saves to previous versions generally isn't a good idea - any "patches" made to the save when loading it for the first time in a new version (the "Handling compatibility issues..." stage) are one-way, since implementing the reverse procedure wouldn't be possible in already-released versions. Attempting to load a save from a newer version could cause a variety of difficult-to-diagnose problems (or DF could simply refuse to recognize/load them).So its a one way transition? Will, I guess I will enjoy the lack traditional family structure while it lasts...
A crapton of beekeeping bugs just got fixed!Quote from: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/changelog_page.php?version_id=45- 0003981: [Dwarf Mode -- Jobs, Farming/Farmer's Workshop] Having multiple active beekeepers causes dwarves with "Installing Colony in Hive" Job to become stuck (Toady One) - resolved.
- 0006368: [Dwarf Mode -- Jobs, Farming/Farmer's Workshop] Crash if bees die in a hive with yet ungathered products. (Toady One) - resolved.
- 0004014: [Dwarf Mode -- Jobs, Cancellation and Suspension] "Dwarf cancels Install Colony in Hive: Could not find Path" drops FPS (Toady One) - resolved.
- 0005726: [Dwarf Mode -- Interface, Announcements: Message Spam] Beehives + burrow = "cancels Install Colony In Hive: Forbidden area" (Toady One) - resolved.
- 0004223: [Dwarf Mode -- Jobs, Farming/Farmer's Workshop] Dwarves don't "split" bee hives, only use wild ones (Toady One) - resolved.
- 0003961: [Dwarf Mode -- Interface, Tasks] Dwarf interrupted during beehive stocking doesn't lose job (Toady One) - resolved.
A crapton of beekeeping bugs just got fixed!Quote from: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/changelog_page.php?version_id=45- 0003981: [Dwarf Mode -- Jobs, Farming/Farmer's Workshop] Having multiple active beekeepers causes dwarves with "Installing Colony in Hive" Job to become stuck (Toady One) - resolved.
- 0006368: [Dwarf Mode -- Jobs, Farming/Farmer's Workshop] Crash if bees die in a hive with yet ungathered products. (Toady One) - resolved.
- 0004014: [Dwarf Mode -- Jobs, Cancellation and Suspension] "Dwarf cancels Install Colony in Hive: Could not find Path" drops FPS (Toady One) - resolved.
- 0005726: [Dwarf Mode -- Interface, Announcements: Message Spam] Beehives + burrow = "cancels Install Colony In Hive: Forbidden area" (Toady One) - resolved.
- 0004223: [Dwarf Mode -- Jobs, Farming/Farmer's Workshop] Dwarves don't "split" bee hives, only use wild ones (Toady One) - resolved.
- 0003961: [Dwarf Mode -- Interface, Tasks] Dwarf interrupted during beehive stocking doesn't lose job (Toady One) - resolved.
mostly the 'can't brew' issue
mostly the 'can't brew' issue
We're still waiting on a save that demonstrates an actual bug (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=7447) -- it's not clear whether one exists. So far, all the cases have actually been a much older quirk (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=434).
Transferring saves to previous versions generally isn't a good ideaIt's not just a bad idea - it's completely impossible because Dwarf Fortress won't even acknowledge that the savegame even exists because its version number is out of range. In order to even get it to load, you'd have to change the savegame's version number (in every single .DAT file), and then you'd run into all sorts of problems (such as outright crashes if the save format changed between those two versions, which happens quite frequently).
(or DF could simply refuse to recognize/load them)In other words, this.
mostly the 'can't brew' issue
We're still waiting on a save that demonstrates an actual bug (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=7447) -- it's not clear whether one exists. So far, all the cases have actually been a much older quirk (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=434).
That and barrels being tied up forever for hauling tasks.
Followed by a very distant third, "new plants are not all implemented".
Will creatures that take up multiple tiles (other than wagons) ever be implemented?
Ever is a long time. So, probably yes.
Will creatures that take up multiple tiles (other than wagons) ever be implemented?Ever is a long time. So, probably yes.
Rainseeker: Right. Well, I have a technical question here; 'How exactly long, wide and tall is a tile in Dwarf Fortress? Are they cubes?'; this is from Lonewolf.
Toady: What the traditional answer is [is] that they're not so big that a dwarf doesn't have to crawl under another dwarf to get through a corridor but at the same time they're big enough to hold a thousand dragons as long as nine hundred and ninety nine of them are lying down. On the other hand it's a serious question because so much would ride on giving an answer; that's why I haven't so far. Because the second that you give an answer the game becomes constricted and you need things to make more sense; suddenly everything needs to make sense. I'm not ready to do that; I think there's something to be said for it - something to be said for nailing that down - but it would really kind of invite things like multi-tile creatures and stuff that I'm just not ready to do. There are some good things about multi-tile creatures; I think they'd be kind of cool. But path finding would need to be changed heavily, and there'd be other issues with them. Would they be too easy to kill for example by hiding off somewhere that they can't get to and shooting at them or whatever; so they'd need to be smart enough to avoid situations like that which might be difficult. So that's kind of one of the main problems - the large creatures - why I haven't established a number yet.
[...]
Capntastic: Will you be able to climb things in the future, like climb a dragon and punch its brain?
Toady: There's the issue with ... It's a question of multi-tile creatures partially - which is a difficult problem - but just the fact that there's the wrestling, and even without multi-tile creatures you've got things like groundhogs that can currently jump up and bite your eyes. That's one of the problems I'm having when I was doing my groundhog tests: twenty versus a guy with a knife, who wins? If the groundhog problem is solved, which it needs to be solved - not for this release most likely but at some point - then that means that that same thing will happen to you when you're fighting a giant creature. I think it would be cool to jump up on things, beyond just Shadow of the Colossus it's a common thing in Ray Harryhausen stuff and so on. So with the large creatures I think it'd be really cool to jump up on them and climb them and swing from them and so on. It wouldn't be as dramatic visually of course as Shadow of the Colossus but it certainly would be a lot of fun.
Just having a chase routine isn't sufficient -- if the multi-tile creature chases something and manages to get around a corner, it'll then be stuck or have some very rudimentary routines to try to get out, which would be anticlimactic. I prefer the large creatures to have brains (or at least potential brains) than extra tiles. The main issue is path finding and how it currently handles it via connected component numberings, which really only work perfectly for creatures that move like dwarves now. Other creatures currently work mostly okay with them, but multi-tile creatures wouldn't work at all. I don't think it would be impossible to change this, but I don't have and have not seen any feasible ideas for handling the issue.
Made unretired forts unhide fully, flowing from surface and all units
Required animal hauling labor for various jobs
Added new labors for hauling trade goods, pulling levers, removing constructions and hauling water
Made laborless building construct/destroy jobs take furniture hauling
Attached trap cleaning to clean labor
Added another adjustment to designation jobs to help them vs. paths that became bad
Required animal hauling labor for various jobsYes!
Added new labors for hauling trade goods, pulling levers, removing constructions and hauling water
Made laborless building construct/destroy jobs take furniture hauling
Attached trap cleaning to clean labor
I think you said at one point that you plan on implementing the ability to perform actions whilst falling in adventure mode. If my adventurer were in the process of falling down a deep vertical shaft and I removed a heavy object from my backpack and threw it, would the conservation of horizontal momentum be respected? In other words, would my falling adventurer be propelled in the opposite direction?I think that would be ridiculously difficult to do on a set of tiles like DF does, not to mention that the effect would be imperceptibly small anyway.
Nethack does it.really... Huh. Color me impressed. Still haven't seen it in DF, though, even on a horizontal plane. Throwing a blue whale does nothing towards pushing you in the opposite direction.
I think you said at one point that you plan on implementing the ability to perform actions whilst falling in adventure mode. If my adventurer were in the process of falling down a deep vertical shaft and I removed a heavy object from my backpack and threw it, would the conservation of horizontal momentum be respected? In other words, would my falling adventurer be propelled in the opposite direction?
It wouldn't be imperceptibly small generally; if you throw a heavy backpack while falling, you'd noticeably move in the opposite horizontal direction. However, there's not usually enough time during a fall to do that kind of thing. Currently we can try to grab tree branches and cliff sides during a fall, which is more practical.I think you said at one point that you plan on implementing the ability to perform actions whilst falling in adventure mode. If my adventurer were in the process of falling down a deep vertical shaft and I removed a heavy object from my backpack and threw it, would the conservation of horizontal momentum be respected? In other words, would my falling adventurer be propelled in the opposite direction?I think that would be ridiculously difficult to do on a set of tiles like DF does, not to mention that the effect would be imperceptibly small anyway.
Do note this means our labour exempt kids a nobles won't do them anymore.QuoteRequired animal hauling labor for various jobsYes!
Added new labors for hauling trade goods, pulling levers, removing constructions and hauling water
Made laborless building construct/destroy jobs take furniture hauling
Attached trap cleaning to clean labor
Keep in mind that realistically you shouldn't be able to throw heavy enough objects to make a noticeable difference. At the very most (realistically) it would have the same effect as you would notice from pushing off a wall , as that's the most force your arms could exert. Thinking you could throw a dragon-loaded backpack in real life would be ridiculous, and although if you could, it would propel you in the opposite direction, realistically you would just be pushing off of it.It wouldn't be imperceptibly small generally; if you throw a heavy backpack while falling, you'd noticeably move in the opposite horizontal direction. However, there's not usually enough time during a fall to do that kind of thing. Currently we can try to grab tree branches and cliff sides during a fall, which is more practical.I think you said at one point that you plan on implementing the ability to perform actions whilst falling in adventure mode. If my adventurer were in the process of falling down a deep vertical shaft and I removed a heavy object from my backpack and threw it, would the conservation of horizontal momentum be respected? In other words, would my falling adventurer be propelled in the opposite direction?I think that would be ridiculously difficult to do on a set of tiles like DF does, not to mention that the effect would be imperceptibly small anyway.
It won't make a difference in slowing your fall, but throwing a 60 pound backpack in mid aid should make a difference in where you land. So doesn't need to be unrealistically heavy. It's not really a useful thing to do though. Firing a bow should have a comparable effect, since your arms are working just as hard, but again, firing a bow while falling or being thrown isn't practical. Firing a preloaded crossbow could be slightly more realistic, and would push you more.Keep in mind that realistically you shouldn't be able to throw heavy enough objects to make a noticeable difference. At the very most (realistically) it would have the same effect as you would notice from pushing off a wall , as that's the most force your arms could exert. Thinking you could throw a dragon-loaded backpack in real life would be ridiculous, and although if you could, it would propel you in the opposite direction, realistically you would just be pushing off of it.It wouldn't be imperceptibly small generally; if you throw a heavy backpack while falling, you'd noticeably move in the opposite horizontal direction. However, there's not usually enough time during a fall to do that kind of thing. Currently we can try to grab tree branches and cliff sides during a fall, which is more practical.I think you said at one point that you plan on implementing the ability to perform actions whilst falling in adventure mode. If my adventurer were in the process of falling down a deep vertical shaft and I removed a heavy object from my backpack and threw it, would the conservation of horizontal momentum be respected? In other words, would my falling adventurer be propelled in the opposite direction?I think that would be ridiculously difficult to do on a set of tiles like DF does, not to mention that the effect would be imperceptibly small anyway.
Also realistically, if you fall 20 z's and somehow manage to grab onto a cliff face, it would rip your arm off. :P But I consider that an acceptable break from reality, if it means I live a little longer.
Did I use "realistically" enough in this post? :-[
I am slightly late, I just wanted to give a bit of background info:QuoteQuote from: sal880612m on July 14, 2014, 08:08:54 pm
Okay so while Toady is clearly against concubinage, is he in general against the idea of having a some sort of extramarital consort/mistress that could lead to things like illegitimate heirs and other such intrigues?
It was a while ago, but I really just set the child board up on the condition that none of the really explicit material be in there (I originally had the body part mods in mind). Meph decided what was in and out on his own, but I can't say I disagree (I don't have a definite opinion on this specific case, since I don't know the implementation, but I would have agreed with removing anything like sexual slavery). I'm not against adding extramarital stuff or other variety/antics/etc. If, when break-ups and so on are added to the relationship code, DF ends up like a reality show, that could be for the best.
I'm curious, I know there must be something about it somewhere but my searching skills are failing me.It's definitely been talked about, mostly in the context of children being born with fully-formed personalities. This bit is from DF Talk 3, but there should be others.:
Are there any plans to have dwarf personalities modified by circumstance? Like, a dwarf who doesn't value family starting to value family because their relationships with their family is so good in game. Or a dwarf that is naturally pessimistic becoming more optimistic because they are surrounded by optimistic dwarves. In other words, dwarves are affected by nature, but are they going to be affected by nurture?
I know Toady has mentioned 'training' your adventurer's personality, and I know that dwarves can become traumatised, but I can't remember anything specific outside that, and I sorta refuse to believe there hasn't been... It's just, my searching skills are failing me?
Rainseeker: I have a question from guyinthecrowd: [6]'Will the environment a dwarf is raised in affect what they like/dislike? For example, if a dwarf is unhappy as a child being raised in a fortress made entirely out of mined Orthoclase, will said dwarf dislike Orthoclase as an adult? Or as a counter-example, if a dwarf is happy whilst being raised in a room of Kaolinite, will said dwarf like Kaolinite when they become an adult?'
Toady: That's kind of a specific example, and I guess that's what it comes down to though. We've had discussions in the past about how the babies pop out right now with fully formed personalities and likes and dislikes and so on, and how that's silly. So then you've got to answer some nature versus nurture questions yourself and then decide what is it that influences these things? I haven't thought about that deeply what's going in the game and what's not for that, it's just recognized as one of those third-tier problems that eventually needs to be dealt with in terms of future development. So I don't have specific opinions on the things put there, but certainly children should acknowledge their parents' professions and if they're given toys as a child that should be able to influence them and so on. It's not difficult to do any specific example of that, especially if you add things like kids playing with toys which obviously has to happen sometime - we have these toys that no-one ever uses; right now they're just trade goods which is kind of silly, the same thing for musical instruments - and once they can use those things then adding a specific influence there is something that's pretty trivial. You just need to have enough of those things that the process seems natural. Like I said it's not a high priority thing, but it's something we'd like to do, vaguely along those lines.
Toady, in version 34.08, traps started blocking caravan wagon access to the trade depot, and the wagons can't path over them. Minecart tracks do the same thing. Is this intended, or a bug? (link to report) (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5927)
Removed requirement that a creature have a baby/child state to breed
No, there will still need to be other relevant tags such as gestation time and clutch size or litter size. This means that they don't necessarily need to have a child life stage, like kittens or poults.
No, there will still need to be other relevant tags such as gestation time and clutch size or litter size. This means that they don't necessarily need to have a child life stage, like kittens or poults.
Fixed problem causing underground animals to be placed beyond their number (and then replaced at the higher number, and so on)
Whoo, at least the fortresses should be more manageable to go through now.
Toady, in past versions, adding [GRASSTRAMPLE:50] to a creature would cause it to trample grass flat almost immediately, but in the current version (40.08) it appears to do nothing. Was this removed intentionally? If so, I'm curious as to why, and if it is coming back in the future.
QuoteWhoo, at least the fortresses should be more manageable to go through now.
Is that what was causing extreme slowness when walking through a fortress in adventure mode? I wonder if there's a similar bug affecting dark fortresses and their surroundings, which I've found almost impossible to approach due to the game slowing down.
- 0004430: [Dwarf Mode -- Stockpiles] Large gems not moved to stockpile (Toady One) - resolved.
Made invaders not come back as ghostsAre there plans to bring this back and make it functional? Haunted battlefields seem like a missed opportunity.
- 0000895: [Dwarf Mode -- Jobs, Hunting] Items disappear (become invisible) after getting pushed by flowing water, burning in magma, or encased in ice (Toady One) - resolved.
QuoteMade invaders not come back as ghostsAre there plans to bring this back and make it functional? Haunted battlefields seem like a missed opportunity.
Toady, in version 34.08, traps started blocking caravan wagon access to the trade depot, and the wagons can't path over them. Minecart tracks do the same thing. Is this intended, or a bug? (link to report) (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5927)
Just to add a note of context, it's an ongoing debate within the community whether traps blocking wagons is a bug or not, some feel like it should be a feature or is intended, some feel like it's a bug, but there's no real consensus or agreement.
My recollection is that this was an intentional change, and the code is consistent with that, though I don't have any specific notes about it. I like not having wagons going back and forth over pressure plates, anyway, though suggestions are welcome in the suggestion forum.
Hiya,Hardcoded-only traders and migrants have been gone for a long while now (I think since 34.xx). Except for the starting seven (and possibly the first migrant wave, but I can't recall specifically), dwarves are historical figures if possible. I've seen former caravan guards show up at my fortress, for instance, and migrants are... well, still randomly generated, but most definitely not sprung to life from nothingness. Having a dead civ means no more migrants, and no more merchants.
Loving the bug report spree, there are several that I've found annoying now on the resolved list. Yay! Here's my question: given the recent mention in the devlog of "Added embark warning if civ is dead", are there any plans to remove the hard-coded randomly generated traders/migrants that were implemented in response to many reports and/or complaints of "no traders/migrants" a couple of major releases ago? (I don't remember exactly when that was implemented.)
-Dame de la Licorne
Added pole-setting parameters for world gen, allowed north+south pole and no-pole options
The latest devlog showed this:QuoteAdded pole-setting parameters for world gen, allowed north+south pole and no-pole options
Wait, so we can now have a world with two poles, or no poles at all? What happens with the no-pole options? Probably the release will hit before this question can be answered.
I would hazzard a guess, to say that the no pole option, is as it is now.
The Suggestions phase begins, woot!What suggestion phase? He said (fortunately) that he is back to bugs, at least for time being. I am happy that he actually checks suggestions forum, though. It will motivate many people to post there with better ideas.
It still worries me, as there are still tons of bugs to fix and I see that Toady already gets bored. Pray that your "favourite" bug will be fixed before Toady has enough and start doing something fun (adding more bugs features). IMO it is bad to change gears so soon, because next bugfix crunch will be after next major release - in other words, in 2-3 years.Whoa, dramatic much?
1) I don't know if you've ever developed any project, but briefly doing something else is not a sign of boredom, it's a sign of making sure you don't turn into a vegetable while keeping your output high :)I know it is possible he did it just for a change.
2) 2014 is very likely to have been the longest release cycle, because Toady said in an interview he 'finally has enough clay to play with'.I will believe it when it happens. There was thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140305.0) showing (unintentionally, poor guy that created thread tried to show opposite, but failed epically) ugly trend of releases to be longer, and longer, and longer... interestingly, there are distinct two tiers of release lengths.
I will believe it when it happens. There was thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140305.0) showing (unintentionally, poor guy that created thread tried to show opposite, but failed epically) ugly trend of releases to be longer, and longer, and longer... interestingly, there are distinct two tiers of release lengths.I respect that you wish to do that, but all I have to say to that thread is that applying statistics to a single person's habits is a really bad idea to begin with, on multiple levels. :/
Hiya,Perhaps I need to clarify as well... To the bolded portion specifically: This hasn't been the case since 40d. Ever since 31.xx, a dead civ means no more migrants, and no more traders.
Given the immediate responses to my most recent question, I wanted to clarify it. Originally in the 31.xx releases, if your chosen civ was dead, the fort never received traders or migrants after the first autumn or so. It was then changed at some point in response to confusion/questions/(possible complaints?) from the players so that now, even if the civ has been dead hundreds of years, every fort gets randomly-generated traders and migrants until it hits the pop cap.I was wondering if there were plans to remove the random generation of traders for dead civs now that there is a warning saying that the civ is dead? So that, if the civ is dead, the fort doesn't receive dwarven traders (at least until ToadyOne gets around to implementing trading routes and relationships with specific traders as part of the caravan arc).
-Dame de la Licorne
I would hazzard a guess, to say that the no pole option, is as it is now.
And the Flatlanders are still left without an option for a central pole... and I want the four Elephants and the giant turtle, too.I would hazzard a guess, to say that the no pole option, is as it is now.
The one-pole option is what the current worlds are (one pole at one end of the map and an equatorial (hot) region at the other). A two-pole option would have the hot region in the middle. A no-pole world wouldn't have any latitude-based temperature scaling, just normal variance like you see with the other world parameters.
I will believe it when it happens. There was thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140305.0) showing (unintentionally, poor guy that created thread tried to show opposite, but failed epically) ugly trend of releases to be longer, and longer, and longer... interestingly, there are distinct two tiers of release lengths.I respect that you wish to do that, but all I have to say to that thread is that applying statistics to a single person's habits is a really bad idea to begin with, on multiple levels. :/
And the Flatlanders are still left without an option for a central pole... and I want the four Elephants and the giant turtle, too.
"What's this? After a lot of rock, we seem to be mining through... hide?!"
Very badass white blood cells.And the Flatlanders are still left without an option for a central pole... and I want the four Elephants and the giant turtle, too.
"What's this? After a lot of rock, we seem to be mining through... hide?!"
So what does this make the demons, then?
Talvieno,
I could have sworn that a fort still got traders, even if the chosen civ is dead. But apparently I'm wrong.
-Dame de la Licorne
I have thought about making a mod where all rocks are organic tissue. . .
"What's this? After a lot of rock, we seem to be mining through... hide?!"
Have you ever thought of implementing possible mutations in the game? For example above ground cattle living underground lose their eyesight but gain heightened hearing or something similar? Basically just readapting different creatures to the biome they're found in?
Have you ever thought of implementing possible mutations in the game? For example above ground cattle living underground lose their eyesight but gain heightened hearing or something similar? Basically just readapting different creatures to the biome they're found in?
Capntastic: So the deep down dwarves, when they come up, maybe they should just be very very allergic to the sun?
Toady: Well they will be cave adapted.
Rainseeker: Exactly.
Capntastic: But extremely cave adapted, have another tier.
Toady: Maybe blind, they'll just lose their eyes.
Capntastic: They'll be blind and they'll be completely white, you know, like those cave fish.
Toady: Beardless, beardless, no, they'll have flesh that replaces the beard or something like these tendrils that come out..
Capntastic: Fleshy beards?
Toady: Translucent fleshy beards that generate light, but they don't have eyes, so it doesn't mean anything. And yeah, they have alcohol detectors in their stomachs and so on, they waddle around and roll in the mud. And yeah, so that's about like a dwarf. That's what we expect from a dwarf.
Rainseeker: Ya, that's pretty good.
Toady: A Cthulu-esque mob that comes out of the deep.
Capntastic: But they're friendly and they talk with a Scottish accent.
Toady: That's right. Scottish deep spawn. It's interesting being in this position, because now we've got all kinds of choices. I'm not sure those are the choices we're going to make, but got all kinds of choices, so it should be cool.
I really, really like the pole options.233 bugs were fixed since 40.02. There are about 2400 unresolved bugs in the bug tracker... So 9%. But a lot of those are really old bugs that nobody's bothered to close.
Also: Awsome how many bugs are getting squished. Does anybody know how much he has fixed, percentage wise?
We also dont know how many older outstanding bugs, are no longer reliviant, as they've disappeared from the changes due to the last content update. There maybe few score more bugs that are gone too just from that.
This might be a little strange here, but I have to ask.
"Adjusted projectile firing speed which became broken during wagon fix" was one of the recent patch notes.
I really would like to know how projectile firing speeds became broken due to fixing wagons.
I am baffled as to how the two things might be related.
On a side note, I can very easily imagine a dwarf muttering that they would "Fix your little red wagon" as they take aim aim at some elf. So maybe there is a connection between wagons and projectiles after all!
*grin*
This might be a little strange here, but I have to ask.
"Adjusted projectile firing speed which became broken during wagon fix" was one of the recent patch notes.
I really would like to know how projectile firing speeds became broken due to fixing wagons.
I am baffled as to how the two things might be related.
On a side note, I can very easily imagine a dwarf muttering that they would "Fix your little red wagon" as they take aim aim at some elf. So maybe there is a connection between wagons and projectiles after all!
*grin*
I don't know the precise answer, but the wagon fix was "Removed some vestigial code stopping wagons from moving properly after move/attack speed split". So the fix ended up affecting creature speeds in general.
I was imagining dwarven crossbow wielders loading wagons into crossbows in some circumstances or something :)This seems like a reasonable explanation for how embarking can drop wagons onto inaccessible roofs, pillars, and other strange formations.
•Made attacker always look at target upon initiating attackHow am I supposed to fight gorgons now??
Quote•Made attacker always look at target upon initiating attackHow am I supposed to fight gorgons now??
How did this make a difference?I bet it is related to at least some cases of victim not retaliating in reaction of attack from player.
Quote•Made attacker always look at target upon initiating attackHow am I supposed to fight gorgons now??
Well, actually, in all seriousness, if you don't mind my asking: How did this make a difference? I thought vision mostly mattered for sneaking, and you can't attack someone you don't already see, so I'm having a hard time guessing what the impact of that bug was.
Also that attacking creatures simply weren't always turning to face their target. Basically, you could backstab someone while they were attacking you... or attack someone while facing away.Quote•Made attacker always look at target upon initiating attackHow am I supposed to fight gorgons now??
Well, actually, in all seriousness, if you don't mind my asking: How did this make a difference? I thought vision mostly mattered for sneaking, and you can't attack someone you don't already see, so I'm having a hard time guessing what the impact of that bug was.
If you attack someone who cannot see you, sometimes they parry and strike back. Toady essentially made it so that even if you had perfect concealment, you were visible to people who you attacked in melee, and if they attacked back, they see you.
How do you intend to get players in the medieval mindset?
If there's a cardinal sin of fantasy, it's how little insight you get into the genuine medieval and classical era, especially the life of the average person.
When will you work on the ability to attack other sites?
Military
Dwarven armies
Ability to send out fortress dwarves to lead larger groups of surrounding dwarves out around mid-level maps (or just go alone)
Ability to send equipment and fortress dwarves out to train surrounding dwarves
Ability to attack sites and entity populations with your dwarven armies
Ability to set fires and select supplies to haul back when sacking a site
•Fixed problem allow the player to become invisible among many units even when clearly visibleThis is obviously an issue if it's happening due to, well, anything other than a reasonable "blends in with the crowd" evaluation. But I am curious: Is being able to hide by blending in with a crowd something that is planned or might otherwise be going in as a feature someday?
How do you intend to get players in the medieval mindset?
If there's a cardinal sin of fantasy, it's how little insight you get into the genuine medieval and classical era, especially the life of the average person.
Is there a reason to assume that "get players in the medieval mindset" is a development goal?
done sooner than the vast amount of stuff that's not on the dev page:
Quote•Fixed problem allow the player to become invisible among many units even when clearly visibleThis is obviously an issue if it's happening due to, well, anything other than a reasonable "blends in with the crowd" evaluation. But I am curious: Is being able to hide by blending in with a crowd something that is planned or might otherwise be going in as a feature someday?
PowerGoal66, IT WAS WORTH THE TIME, (Future): The guards are hunting you because you have a stolen diamond. You dip into a group of mourners that are a viewing a body just as the guards appear. They dare not stop you from slipping into the solemn crowd. You pretend to mourn the body, holding its head in your hand as you hide the diamond in the corpse's mouth. Although you are subsequently apprehended and imprisoned for twenty years, after you are released, you dig up the body and claim the prize.
PowerGoal88, YOUR NAUGHTY CHILD, (Future): You and your sons follow a train of people from various towns going to see the prophet Shangris. When you arrive, Shangris tells people to overthrow the king. Shangris also says he is parentless -- that he sprang up from a hole in the ground. You leap up from the crowd and claim truthfully to be Shangris's father. Your sons come up and say that they are his brothers. Shangris holds a knife to your neck, screaming that he has no father. Your sons step back. The confusion disorients the crowd, allowing your evil son Shangris to escape.
You see why i make assumptions :P.
Stopped necromancer towers from doing various inappropriate townish things that lead to tower proliferation etc
I'd love to see a fruit tree-eating dwarf now. Just standing there, gnawing on the bark of the uprooted tree ignoring the fruit on it, while spiting the elves.
Are we ever going to have non-dwarves try to immigrate? Like human refugees show up looking for safety and we can either accept them as citizens or lock them out until they move on? Or hurl magma at them, that works too.
For that matter, could we end up with a culture in the world that keeps moving around without settling down, like medieval Gypsies?
Hiya,Are we ever going to have non-dwarves try to immigrate? Like human refugees show up looking for safety and we can either accept them as citizens or lock them out until they move on? Or hurl magma at them, that works too.
I'd like to add to this, will we eventually be able to get dwarven immigrants from another civ? Particularly if our chosen embark civ is already dead or dies during fort mode gameplay.
-Dame de la Licorne
For that matter, could we end up with a culture in the world that keeps moving around without settling down, like medieval Gypsies?
QuoteQuote from: MaskedMiner
In one of older version there were those unnamed whatever underground animal men civilizations, what is the plan for those? Is every type of animal men going to have their own tribal civilization or were those 7 underground "civilizations" placeholders for something else?
The underground ones were always a bit more civilized equipment-wise, but I don't know that the aboveground ones are going to remain in their animal population state. We'll probably be in better shape once we have things like better-defined nomadic human pops.
I meant if there are going to be MULTIPLE different randomized demon types
Like there seems to be three basic categories for spoilery vault guardian monsters :P The animal like one, the humanoid one and huge monster one. Are there going to be multiple different demon categories or are they going to be same "Humanoid goblin leaders and ones you can unleash by digging adamantinum are just as random as forbidden beasts" so far? Like, I remember demons from hell being anything from salt six legged anteaters to floating cloud with wings to humanoid demons like goblin leader ones.
But thanks for answering the other questions :)
As far as I can tell, the wiki is just incomplete in the entry for Demons and there are truly multiple demon types with different characteristics. For example, Phantoms seem to dodge very well but are otherwise weak but have a strong attack. Banshees also dodge very well but are weak in both defense and offense. Brutes are absolute monsters with incredible combat skills - 1 brute obliterated my military (and then killed every dwarf in the rest of my fort) - by putting his axe through their heads or necks within 1-2 attacks in every fight.No, the various demons are pretty much identical in terms of attributes, natural skills, and personality, and their natural attacks depend on their form. There are only two divisions of demons - demons, and unique demons (the demon lords that raise the slade spires - they have higher natural skills for example).
I can't seem to find this issue on the bug tracker, but all historical figures blink blue in Adventure mode when graphics are turned on. This is not only distracting, but could confuse new players. Are there any plans to fix this blinking?
I can't seem to find this issue on the bug tracker, but all historical figures blink blue in Adventure mode when graphics are turned on. This is not only distracting, but could confuse new players. Are there any plans to fix this blinking?
2278 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=2278)? If it's on the tracker, it'll probably get fixed.
Oh, okay, legendaries and other blinkers, I thought you meant all historical figures. That'd be bad. Historical figures include all of your fortress members and basically anyone who has a name at all.
Do you have an idea as to how much you still need to implement before being able to tackle various fort mode start scenarios?
As in, being able to do a hermit fort scenario without having to kill off six of the starting seven? Or some sort of last dwarves/generational scenario without having to re-roll fifty thousand times (exaggerated, yes, but the point stands) to get six of the starting seven to be age matches? And so on.
Note that I'm not asking "when", I'm asking "what still needs to be done before."
Looking into interaction details revealed two new breath attack types: TRAILING_ITEM_FLOW and UNDIRECTED_ITEM_CLOUD. How exactly are they used? Do they work with both CDI and IT_MATERIAL?
(I'm guessing "no" for IT_MATERIAL, since it's only used with weather effects, and there's no WEATHER_CREEPING_ITEM or WEATHER_FALLING_ITEM, as amusing as it would be to have it rain fish or have a cloud of locusts drift by)
With the current model of morale, do diffrent creatures exude diffrent levels of horror? IE is a dragon more horrifying to a militia dwarf than say an alligator or a gazelle?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Toady, in past versions, adding [GRASSTRAMPLE:50] to a creature would cause it to trample grass flat almost immediately, but in the current version (40.08) it appears to do nothing. Was this removed intentionally? If so, I'm curious as to why, and if it is coming back in the future.
(Made invaders not come back as ghosts)
Are there plans to bring this back and make it functional? Haunted battlefields seem like a missed opportunity.
(Items disappear after getting pushed by flowing water, burning in magma, or encased in ice)
Just out of curiosity (and to actually make a question for the green text), what was causing that bug to happen?
do the new map layout options imply some kind of edge-wrapping behavior?
I really would like to know how projectile firing speeds became broken due to fixing wagons.
(Made attacker always look at target upon initiating attack)
Well, actually, in all seriousness, if you don't mind my asking: How did this make a difference? I thought vision mostly mattered for sneaking, and you can't attack someone you don't already see, so I'm having a hard time guessing what the impact of that bug was.
How much data about historical figures is stored after that figure dies? Is, for example, the hair color of that person retained after they're killed?
Here's a question, though I don't know if anyone else asked it or if it's been answered: I was under the impression that we'd be able to interact with Hill Dwarves to some degree in Fortress mode in this release, but I haven't seen anything about it. What needs to be done before that comes available? I'm just talking about little things like being able to send people out to help them, nothing major like sending out campaign forces en-mass to attack others.Those two things, probably would use very similar feature or use the same underlying features.
Quote from: Dirstdo the new map layout options imply some kind of edge-wrapping behavior?
Nope. That's a time-consuming change that isn't likely to make it in any time soon... probably almost as annoying to add as whole other planes of existence in the end.
And animals being given official appointments, weren't unheard of for medieval Europe.
(In 1986, the ferret was named the official mascot of the Massachusetts Colonial Navy, and Pokey the ferret [the first ferret that held the Navy's mascot title] spawned one of the first-ever lines of stuffed ferret toys.) (http://www.cypresskeep.com/Ferretfiles/Domestic-FUSA.htm)
here's an interesting question, or perhaps just a suggestion:I can't link you specifically to where it was said (FotF somewhere, I think), but the short answer is that yes, that's planned for the future.
would we be able to send dwarves from our fort into the hill dwarf communities for any purpose? my though is that useless dwarves could be instructed to join the hill dwarves to help them in some way or another.
here's an interesting question, or perhaps just a suggestion:I can't link you specifically to where it was said (FotF somewhere, I think), but the short answer is that yes, that's planned for the future.
would we be able to send dwarves from our fort into the hill dwarf communities for any purpose? my though is that useless dwarves could be instructed to join the hill dwarves to help them in some way or another.
About taverns and inns:I like this idea, unless they are ‼Adventurers‼ then I'd rather keep them away from the booze :)
Will there be more types of transient visitors from surrounding sites besides the usual traders and envoys?
For example: visiting relatives, farmers from a hill trading some greens at a 'foodshop' for coin then buying manufactured goods, like mugs and socks from a 'goods shop'. Adventurers! looking for good equipment, supplies and quests/rumours. etc.
Indeed. one more job for the sheriff. or !!hammerer!!
edit: Oh my! I just generated a world in 0.40.10 and got some major towerspam. Gonna see how many death-gods there are...(6) then try to meet some. heheeheeee!
About taverns and inns:I like this idea, unless they are ‼Adventurers‼ then I'd rather keep them away from the booze :)
Will there be more types of transient visitors from surrounding sites besides the usual traders and envoys?
For example: visiting relatives, farmers from a hill trading some greens at a 'foodshop' for coin then buying manufactured goods, like mugs and socks from a 'goods shop'. Adventurers! looking for good equipment, supplies and quests/rumours. etc.
It would be great to send an army marching off to attack neighbours. Maybe you're at war with the elves, and you want to wipe out the elves that have been attacking you? Send thirty tough dwarves after them, keeping a few home to cover goblin defence, and when your soldiers return home, they'd have goods from the elves. No more elves attacking you, or maybe you could have an option to show some mercy, and the next caravan to come by has a diplomat, offering lower prices for peace. This could be a use for mounts too, send your dwarves off on some mounts and they'll get to the enemy faster and carry more. If you raided goblins, you could get rare war creatures, like trained ogres and cave dragons.
Wooden chests brought by elven traders are grown nowI bet the Elves felt really icky when they first realized what they had been carrying around with them.
Allowed recover wounded jobs to bring dwarves to hospital floor if no beds are available
Stopped recover wounded jobs from bringing dwarves to non-hospital beds
Made doctors remove dwarves from traction properly (checks weekly)
QuoteAllowed recover wounded jobs to bring dwarves to hospital floor if no beds are available
Stopped recover wounded jobs from bringing dwarves to non-hospital beds
Made doctors remove dwarves from traction properly (checks weekly)
That's great news !
- Stopped civs from sending a squad when they failed to find thieves/snatchers to send
Good. Siege in first year is a little too hardcore even for DF. Good to know that was not intentional.
- Stopped civs from sending a squad when they failed to find thieves/snatchers to send
Are the dipscripts even doing much of anything right now?They're used to control diplomat meetings (the actual displayed text is located in data/dipscripts/text) - the wiki (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Dipscript) has more information. For example, elves_firstcontact displays different messages depending on the number of trees removed:
[INITIAL_LOAD]
[DIPSCRIPT:ELVES_FIRSTCONTACT]
[IF:GLOBAL:TREESREMOVED:>:GLOBAL:0]
[TEXTVIEWER:elves_firstcontact1]
[ELSE]
[TEXTVIEWER:elves_firstcontact2]
[ENDIF]
[HISTORY_DIPEV:FIRSTCONTACT]
Were you planning on adding curious underground structures back into the game, or have they been replaced by vaults?
Quote from: MaskedMiner/samanatoSpoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Do worldgen population limits (MAX_POP_NUMBER, etc.) affect expansion post-worldgen, or can a civ theoretically expand to populate the entire world? If the hard cap is still in effect, what happens to player created units (starting 7 and adventurers) over the entity population cap?
Do worldgen population limits (MAX_POP_NUMBER, etc.) affect expansion post-worldgen, or can a civ theoretically expand to populate the entire world? If the hard cap is still in effect, what happens to player created units (starting 7 and adventurers) over the entity population cap?Back when Toady added births, he said that the world gen limits still apply to new births:
I suppose today is as good a day as any to add birth to the world. It schedules various conceptions throughout the world, and those add births to the schedule -- it still has to respect the same artificial population caps used in world generation to avoid overpopulation.If the player manages to overflow the limits, I would assume that this simply prevents new (off-site) births from being scheduled until such a time that the still-occurring deaths reduce the numbers below the limits.
- Stopped fort dwarves from throwing their clothes off into a pile during unretire after being visited by adventurer
- Stopped fort animals from getting clothing during unretire after being visited by adventurer
"Take everything you want, just don't kill us!"Quote
- Stopped fort dwarves from throwing their clothes off into a pile during unretire after being visited by adventurer
- Stopped fort animals from getting clothing during unretire after being visited by adventurer
Is a visit from an adventurer so disruptive that it makes people strip off their clothes and throw them at animals?
What are you people doing in these forts? ???
Yeah, you can still set GRAZER, but there's a STANDARD_GRAZER now that doesn't have an argument, and I've replaced all of my own GRAZERs with it (so giant creatures work). It sets GRAZER to 20000*G*(max size)^(-3/4), where G defaults to 100 but can be set in d_init, and the whole thing is trapped between 150 and 3 million, I think, so grazers larger than rhinos/elephants end up needing the same amount of grass, for now anyway, and they should survive.Thanks! I'll have a look how this measures up with my mods' formula.
that means that Elephants and other large sized beast like it are actually viable (?)That's the idea, yes. As a matter of fact, if my above calculations are correct, every grazer that's a little larger than a donkey will eat the same amount of grass.
Quote from: Toady OneQuote from: LemundeThere's been some discussion about studded weapons since the big update earlier this year. Specifically I'm wondering if, for example, a silver mace studded with lead would do more damage than a normal silver mace due to the added weight?
Improvements to items don't do anything weight/damage-wise yet, but we'd hope to have it matter at some point.
Will (Decorate item with X) and (Stud item with X) have any effect on the item apart from increasing it's value? I think studding a shield with steel spikes ought to improve shield bash and giving an iron hammer platinum studs should increase it's force on impact.
Quote from: LemundeThere's been some discussion about studded weapons since the big update earlier this year. Specifically I'm wondering if, for example, a silver mace studded with lead would do more damage than a normal silver mace due to the added weight?
Improvements to items don't do anything weight/damage-wise yet, but we'd hope to have it matter at some point.
Messed around with some of the lag culprits: stale activities, enemy detection, over-active food consumption logging, and so on. Doubled the speed of the test save, but it's hard to say how it'll transfer in general, though the fixed trouble spots would come up in every fort with lots of dwarves.
Today’s devlog:For now? high population forts are the bigger bug; they make old forts die fps death instead of a constant factor that can be mitigated by playing a smaller map.QuoteMessed around with some of the lag culprits: stale activities, enemy detection, over-active food consumption logging, and so on. Doubled the speed of the test save, but it's hard to say how it'll transfer in general, though the fixed trouble spots would come up in every fort with lots of dwarves.
Alright, so FPS doubled on the broken save? Will any of the changes make an improvement on large map sizes, or is it just high-population forts for now?
Out of curiosity, what language is DF written in?
Out of curiosity, what language is DF written in?
It's C++.
The official word is "an unsanctioned mess of C and C++", IIRC. You can sorta see Toady's pre-DF coding style in Liberal Crime Squad, which was one very large C++ file with no classes.
Latest news brings up three questions:All of those are pretty much Tavern "arc" questions. Tavern work is one of the leading candidates for the post-bugfix large release work, and would likely include recipes, improved meals and drinks, using spices, and the like. For the next release, yes, cooked fruits will still use the in-raw meal item types.
How will fruit and vegetable refinement be handled?
Will fruits and vegetables still bear a biscuits/stew/roast description when cooked, or will they be different and more plausible such as pie, jam or cobbler?
If fruits and vegetables are able to be pressed into drinkable juice, or millled into meal, powder or spice, can these juices and spices be used to make finer drinks?
so we'll see how fortress-wide meltdowns are affected
If you're talking about this report (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=6854), its status (our primary method of indicating priorities) is already "confirmed".
Why is your pet bug more important then someone elses pet bug? You don't think ToadyOne is aware there are bugs in the game?If you're talking about this report (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=6854), its status (our primary method of indicating priorities) is already "confirmed".
I don't know what "confirmed" is supposed to mean, aside from some admin reproduced the bug. What I'm asking is just that it actually gets fixed. There are other similar bug reports with the "new" status, and they deserve a higher priority than "minor", imo.
KreEstoF, what Lethosolor is trying to say is that is that the bugtracker doesn't do priorities(priorities you see on the bug tracker are always done by reporters). Toady just chooses at near-random.
The only bugs that do get priority are crashes.
To get back on topic, the current devlog sounds foreboding.
Gee, I dunno? Maybe because combat is an important part of the game, and practically all one does in adventure mode? You might as well face it, but it's what most awesome stories amount to. Maybe when your platoon of dwarves manage to pulp all of a dragon's limbs, but it still wipes out your fort because they're entirely functional, you will change your mind.Why is your pet bug more important then someone elses pet bug? You don't think ToadyOne is aware there are bugs in the game?If you're talking about this report (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=6854), its status (our primary method of indicating priorities) is already "confirmed".
I don't know what "confirmed" is supposed to mean, aside from some admin reproduced the bug. What I'm asking is just that it actually gets fixed. There are other similar bug reports with the "new" status, and they deserve a higher priority than "minor", imo.
Gee, I dunno? Maybe because combat is an important part of the game, and practically all one does in adventure mode? You might as well face it, but it's what most awesome stories amount to. Maybe when your platoon of dwarves manage to pulp all of a dragon's limbs, but it still wipes out your fort because they're entirely functional, you will change your mind.Why is your pet bug more important then someone elses pet bug? You don't think ToadyOne is aware there are bugs in the game?If you're talking about this report (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=6854), its status (our primary method of indicating priorities) is already "confirmed".
I don't know what "confirmed" is supposed to mean, aside from some admin reproduced the bug. What I'm asking is just that it actually gets fixed. There are other similar bug reports with the "new" status, and they deserve a higher priority than "minor", imo.
Can someone summarize what the thought rewrite entails? It sounds exciting.All I know is it's needed for job priorities.
I assume it's about making all the new personality traits have an effect on behavior in dwarf mode, instead of being descriptions only.Sooo... now (or at least in 0.34) pretty much only jobs affected by personality was broker/manager (you WILL know when you get dwarf prone to procrastination) and hospital care (taking aside supposedly fixed healthcare bugs, you HAVE to have someone that enjoy helping others).
The mind has been rewritten quite a bit -- people now experience emotions according to different circumstances (lots of awkward monologues there), and they consider actions differently. The main outstanding issue is that I didn't get around to converting existing dwarf mode thoughts, so they sort of exist concurrently with the new emotions and that needs to be changed.
I assume it's about making all the new personality traits have an effect on behavior in dwarf mode, instead of being descriptions only.Sooo... now (or at least in 0.34) pretty much only jobs affected by personality was broker/manager (you WILL know when you get dwarf prone to procrastination) and hospital care (taking aside supposedly fixed healthcare bugs, you HAVE to have someone that enjoy helping others).
If you are right, in future every job will be like this...? Dear Armok.
This will be un-fun (as in forced micromanagement hell).
I hope game will have some way to indicate that certain dwarves are unsuited to given job. And immigrants will be generated with professions and skills with at least some skew in direction of their personality (to today I remember philosophers with "intelectual discourse = waste of time" character trait, clearly showing profession and skill generation is/was totally random and indepedent from personality).
Will you go on a pub crawl to research the tavern arc? How do you generally research, come to that?
PowerGoal48, ROAD HOUSE, (Future): Onlookers led by you stop a fight, and somebody demands to see the manager. The manager appoints you official bar bouncer.
We love you Toady! Don't give up! Make sure to reemerge to breathe every so often! Here I'll help.
...
Does anyone know how to email a snorkel?
We love you Toady! Don't give up! Make sure to reemerge to breathe every so often! Here I'll help.
...
Does anyone know how to email a snorkel?
We may need to dwarf up a reverse 3-d printer.
We love you Toady! Don't give up! Make sure to reemerge to breathe every so often! Here I'll help.
...
Does anyone know how to email a snorkel?
We may need to dwarf up a reverse 3-d printer.
You're both being ridiculous. Toady is amphibious, he doesn't need to come up for air!
We love you Toady! Don't give up! Make sure to reemerge to breathe every so often! Here I'll help.
...
Does anyone know how to email a snorkel?
We may need to dwarf up a reverse 3-d printer.
You're both being ridiculous. Toady is amphibious, he doesn't need to come up for air!
Nope, adult toads don't have gills, only tadpoles; once the tadpole matures into a toad, it loses the ability to breathe water in exchange for breathing air.
We love you Toady! Don't give up! Make sure to reemerge to breathe every so often! Here I'll help.
...
Does anyone know how to email a snorkel?
We may need to dwarf up a reverse 3-d printer.
You're both being ridiculous. Toady is amphibious, he doesn't need to come up for air!
Nope, adult toads don't have gills, only tadpoles; once the tadpole matures into a toad, it loses the ability to breathe water in exchange for breathing air.
Some adult toads and frogs hibernate underwater, slowing their metabolism, and breathing through their skin.
Toady will be ok for the next few months.
(emerging for update) still working on it... lots of lists... things to type... (submerging)
Hey toady, not to nag but:
Do you think you could prioritize fixing the bug where pulped body parts still function? I think this is a terrible bug which ruins all forms of combat in the game.
How do you envision conversation?
How do you envision conversation?
Do you mean dwarves having conversations in Fortress Mode?
and adventure. I'm wondering if it's going to be a thorough, heavily moddable system tied up with the thought rewrite, written more or less in character, or it's going to be abstract (The vampire makes a jokes referencing events 300 years ago. It is scintillating) like books. Or even if he'll use a chatbot.I bet on prewritten sentences indicating emotions, like now in adventure mode (and rarely combat reports in fort mode). But I would be fine with abstract.
What are the 119 emotions?
The 6 emotions present in dwarf mode were horror, terror, fear, shock, grief, and rage. What were the remaining 10?
usually through the stress/stability measurements which replace the "happiness" meterDoes this mean there's no "positive excitement" (like joy of giving birth, which should be neither "stable" nor "stressed") status anymore?
I guess you could say that this update was... very emotional. 8)
The 6 emotions present in dwarf mode were horror, terror, fear, shock, grief, and rage. What were the remaining 10?
How many of the emotions are ones that have long German names that have no equivalent in English?
How many of the emotions are ones that have long German names that have no equivalent in English?
Everything is schadenfreude for us, as soon as we start talking about the demise of everyone else's fortresses.
In a more serious note, which ones are you talking about, specifically?
Just wondering here, when will the bug where attacking armies in post worldgen are always successful, leading to Mongol Horde style waves of mass conquerings, be fixed? It creates a real problem for longer term gameplay for any single world. This bug is mainly notable in fort mode, but it seems to happen in adventure mode as well.It's a deliberate placeholder for now, and not a bug as such, and timeline questions rarely have good answers. Also see this Twitter exchange (https://twitter.com/Bay12Games/status/504069257546592256):
This bug I think: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=8202
Quote from: TinyPirate@Bay12Games any word when civilizations won't lose any time they are attacked? #dwarffortress@TinyPirate Army fights are a large issue, and there are obstacles to even just making it a coin flip, so no short term plans.
Thanks for bringing the footprints, CLA. I was pretty sure I saw them somewhere through the development cycle, also a bit sad to realize they didn't make the cut.
Reading about them I noticed something else I was going to ask anyway, and it is, how are living encampments and search posses going to be implemented in the current frame? Right now tents are just fancy backdrops for either unjustified murder or meaningless, one-sided interactions, what with their occupants being always asleep.
Haven't commited enough crimes in a single savefile to provoke manhunts against me, but I think they're non-existant by now. I might be wrong.
Thanks for bringing the footprints, CLA. I was pretty sure I saw them somewhere through the development cycle, also a bit sad to realize they didn't make the cut.Yeah, I even added the tiles that would have been used to the tileset page on the wiki before realizing that they weren't in the game. I guess it's one of those things where DF has to know what it wants. "you see the footprint of a racoon", or displaying an image of a racoon footprint? The former has the obvious advantage that you - as player - don't need to know what a racoon footprint looks like (still have to know what a racoon is though). Whereas I think an image of a footprint would be more fun to play, as the game relies more on your own knowledge; I like that in games. You wouldn't even have to know what animal it is, just using your common sense (it's a big creature. it's a small creature. it has claws, it doesn't) should get you reasonably far. Although I think providing a scale of reference would be nice.
Quote from: Urist McVoyagerI was under the impression that we'd be able to interact with Hill Dwarves to some degree in Fortress mode in this release, but I haven't seen anything about it. What needs to be done before that comes available? I'm just talking about little things like being able to send people out to help them, nothing major like sending out campaign forces en-mass to attack others.Quote from: AreyarDo you have a formed idea how hill dwarf<>Fortress trade/transport will be formulated for the player-fort?
the current tantrum and insanity systems are "placeholders" but do you have a broad-strokes idea of what needs to be done before this part of the AI (artificial insanity) engine is fleshed out? I would love to see someone actually appoint a yak to a noble position and mean it! This would be a legitimate loyalty cascade between loyalty to the noble and loyalty to the country.
I have been messing around with the new options for temperature map settings, and I'm getting a common map rejection called "Placed farming entity without orchard crops". What might have caused that to happen and why is it something that a map should not have?
What are these two errors? Never seen these before.
Civ Zone Kitchen 5959: Null Unit Assignment (Id 28978)
Civ Zone Captive Room 5960: Null Unit Assignment (Id 28978)
Do worldgen population limits (MAX_POP_NUMBER, etc.) affect expansion post-worldgen, or can a civ theoretically expand to populate the entire world? If the hard cap is still in effect, what happens to player created units (starting 7 and adventurers) over the entity population cap?
While I recall that roads aren't built and megabeast attacks don't occur after world-gen (outside of fortress mode) as well, that doesn't seem to destabilize things nearly as much as the goblin blitzkrieg. If it's not something that will happen for a long, long time (not until the next major version), is there any possibility that a sort of stopgag might be put in so that post-worldgen invasions can have diverse outcomes, even if it's just a population based dice roll?
Why does Dwarf Fortress stop CMV recording once the file size exceeds 5 million bytes? Was there originally some reason behind that limitation?
Will you go on a pub crawl to research the tavern arc? How do you generally research, come to that?
With pulping, it seems like there are lots of injuries that are not easily sorted with a splint and some stitches - are there any plans to incorporate amputation of mangled limbs? Thanks for the great work!
How do you envision conversation?
What are the 119 emotions?
Will we get to peek in on the conversations of our dwarves in fort mode? You know, see Urist McFuturedad on his pregnant wife and future child, see the soldiers comment on the slaying of the FB or be concerned about injured comrades, see our dwarves pay thier respects to the dead, grumble about the shortage of copper, etc.
Edit: Oh, will the 119 emotions also be applied to the other races and be visible in adventure mode?
Quote from: FieariDo each of the emotions have a distinct in game effect, aside from just a note on the dwarf information screen?
Will grief mean more than appreciation of art now?
Will dwarves become acclimated to splendor, and no longer be brought to tears in awe at their masterwork dining room after eating there all their lives? On the flip side, if they lose said legendary diningroom and then have to deal with lesser quality, will they see it as a major loss, or still as an "okay" diningroom?Quote from: Urist McDepravityDoes this mean there's no "positive excitement" (like joy of giving birth, which should be neither "stable" nor "stressed") status anymore?
Is this going to work in Adventure mode too so we can finally get something else than "it was inevitable" in answer to incredible adventure feats ?
How many of the emotions are ones that have long German names that have no equivalent in English?
Whatever happened to these (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_2012.html#2012-07-30) composite footprint images?
I assume they got scrapped because it would have been too much work to research and integrate footprints for every creature, but is that still planned to be added in the far future?
I'd say that's great opportunity for the community to collect some data and transform it in a meaningful format.
how are living encampments and search posses going to be implemented in the current frame? Right now tents are just fancy backdrops for either unjustified murder or meaningless, one-sided interactions, what with their occupants being always asleep.
Haven't commited enough crimes in a single savefile to provoke manhunts against me, but I think they're non-existant by now. I might be wrong.
Quote from: Zarathustra30What are the 119 emotions?
People have a guessing thread now, so we'll have to wait!
Quote from: SizikHow many of the emotions are ones that have long German names that have no equivalent in English?
He he he, I think they are all more or less regular English words. I was considering how I might handle that language/culture specific situation back when I was thinking about how language generation might work... it would be cool to have some kind of procedural emotion word creator when we get to languages, say. Then certain circumstances could make certain civ creatures feel something others wouldn't be able to conceptualize, or something. The "many words for snow" situation is related as well, and a sort of cliche that should be fully explored for our tacky fantasy generator. But that's all backburner speculation.
Only Germans experience schadenfreude, zeitgeist or zugzwang! They also have 11 words for philosopher and 8 for psychologist! (someone who knows German back me up please)Philosoph, Denker, Dummquatscher, Dummschwätzer... nope, can't get to 11, and I cheated. :P
Only Germans experience schadenfreude, zeitgeist or zugzwang! They also have 11 words for philosopher and 8 for psychologist! (someone who knows German back me up please)Hm, I speak (swiss-)german fluently, but I have just one Word for Philosopher and a few more for Psychogolist, all rather colloquial, though.
That means it's actually closer than I thought. Once Dwarves get mounts, we'll have citizens tilting as windmills in no time!Quote from: Dirstthe current tantrum and insanity systems are "placeholders" but do you have a broad-strokes idea of what needs to be done before this part of the AI (artificial insanity) engine is fleshed out? I would love to see someone actually appoint a yak to a noble position and mean it! This would be a legitimate loyalty cascade between loyalty to the noble and loyalty to the country.
I'm not really sure how it should work at this point. Once we get the new stress/stability system in, it'd probably just be the sort of thing that can be addressed directly. The easiest way would probably be to assign specific issues to people that have been having trouble for a while, but I have no idea if that's something that should happen.
The personality change/shifting standards/acclimation question has been sitting on the table for a long while, but I haven't much with it yet -- we did do that thing with dwarves getting tired of specific food/drink types, and a few other individual counters, though having dwarves get tired of craftsdwarfship would be a sad, angsty thing. General changes in personality have to be approached more carefully, and I'm not sure when we'll try to actually shift a facet. It happens a lot in real life (just growing up mostly, though kids should start with way more out of whack facets), but facet changes need to occur through a clear process so it isn't mushy and confusing and character-killing, especially since we are using the emotions in part to more clearly establish the dwarves as distinct characters.I can see a Dwarf getting tired of performing the same exact job over and over and over again like smelting copper (absent a preference for copper) but I imagine getting tired of crafting would require some very outlier values for a Dwarf. By the way, she's in my current fort.
Quote from: Zarathustra30What are the 119 emotions?
People have a guessing thread now, so we'll have to wait!
Quote from: Valtamhow are living encampments and search posses going to be implemented in the current frame? Right now tents are just fancy backdrops for either unjustified murder or meaningless, one-sided interactions, what with their occupants being always asleep.
Haven't commited enough crimes in a single savefile to provoke manhunts against me, but I think they're non-existant by now. I might be wrong.
Yeah, it ended up poorly -- tents became trouble during development, and I'm still not sure how to have them packed up and so on while armies don't even have equipment. Many armies just don't stop and hang out during the day -- they only stop and instantly sleep, so it is a weird setup. There are guards in the camp that wander around at night, so it shouldn't be utterly one-sided. I'm not sure what's going to happen, but a lot more work needs to be done with army movements and intent and supplies and messengers and all that.
The search posses themselves would be easier to fix. I've seen posses in towns during testing, but I don't think the camps can do them despite what I had hoped for. And they are just an army on the map, so it'd be good luck to even notice that a town was hunting you.
In a more recent adventure save, I killed an ambush which was hostile to me near a town and then when I approached the hamlet, a new one ran out (also hostile), which I killed. Then when I went into the hamlet, the first person I talked to called me a murderer (I'd never been to that town before). Not sure if that was because I killed the second group that went after me or some other reason, but I decided that I just wasn't welcome there and went elsewhere.You probably had one of the posse members' eyelashes on your sleeve or something, and the citizen recognized that corpse immediately :)
In a more recent adventure save, I killed an ambush which was hostile to me near a town and then when I approached the hamlet, a new one ran out (also hostile), which I killed. Then when I went into the hamlet, the first person I talked to called me a murderer (I'd never been to that town before). Not sure if that was because I killed the second group that went after me or some other reason, but I decided that I just wasn't welcome there and went elsewhere.You probably had one of the posse members' eyelashes on your sleeve or something, and the citizen recognized that corpse immediately :)
Can't you at least try to do something about the sleeping forever part? Valtams point is that they contribute nothing to the whole adventure mode experience if they sleep forever.
Also, what's up with those two armies that I found that had animals in them? The first one I interpreted as a horse theif type situation, but I have no logical explaination for the second one, which includes the animal recruit thing
Can't you at least try to do something about the sleeping forever part? Valtams point is that they contribute nothing to the whole adventure mode experience if they sleep forever.
Also, what's up with those two armies that I found that had animals in them? The first one I interpreted as a horse theif type situation, but I have no logical explaination for the second one, which includes the animal recruit thing
I keep trying to click these words but nothing happens?
You've struck embedded links. Praise the data miners!Sigged.
Are you trying to hint 'link the bug report'?
Also, fixed with links that shall activate at your click.
The many words thing for snow is actualy a myth. Like in german the natives up in the north use compound words. In german you have something like "Pulverschnee" which means very powdery snow.
...
In the guessing thread I already alluded to the possibility that dwarves will have many names for things being inevitable. ;^) (I don't think "It was inevitable" is ever going to get old... it achieved instant mimetic status not unlike the killer carp, completely intolerable nobles, or the dwarven obsession with cheese; like them, it will probably be fondly remembered well beyond the era when it was dominant.)
As I understand it, what makes the "[northern-bound culture here] have [surprisingly large number here] words for snow!" thing a myth isn't so much that it isn't literally true as that people mistakenly think it's completely different from the surprising number of snow-related words used by any non-tropics-bound culture. In English, for example, we have snowing vs. flurries vs. blizzards, snowbanks vs. snowdrifts, snowflakes vs. "ice crystals" (sometimes synonymous and sometimes not), frost and some variations thereon, slush when the stuff is half melted... and probably more that I'm forgetting. Now, granted, we don't have individual words for light snow vs. heavy snow, dry snow vs. wet snow (short of slush), pure white snow vs. dirty street snow vs. yellow snow... but only because we don't do compound words much in modern English.
On the other hand, cultures do have interesting words for specific, nuanced things like "the way snowbanks made of unadulterated fluffy snow shimmer in the sunlight". Even if they don't have such words in relation to snow, they have some in relation to something. And that, really, might be more interesting to come up with some stock examples to demonstrate than the mere number of words that can be had for a given thing in varied contexts.
English has the weird habit of absconding with vocabulary. At some point we stopped trying to translate perfectly good words and just started using them.It's not even a unique trait - English is just a very visible example.
English has the weird habit of absconding with vocabulary. At some point we stopped trying to translate perfectly good words and just started using them.It's not even a unique trait - English is just a very visible example.
Will we have to generate a new game to get the full effects of the thought rewrite, or will preexisting dwarves start exhibiting the full range of new behaviors when imported to the new version?
Right now I think I can get through with a thought-wipe.Presumably, dwarves will exhibit the new behaviors after their thoughts are wiped.
Thanks, Toady!Philosoph, Denker, Dummquatscher, Dummschwätzer, Sittlichkeitfabrik, Felsensitzen, Griechisch, fullen mit pelz, lebenhacker, klug Hans, Ubergenius. And there's your 11 words for Philosopher.Only Germans experience schadenfreude, zeitgeist or zugzwang! They also have 11 words for philosopher and 8 for psychologist! (someone who knows German back me up please)Philosoph, Denker, Dummquatscher, Dummschwätzer... nope, can't get to 11, and I cheated. :P
A lot of those are slang anyway.A lot of them are a whole lot of nothing, actually. I don't think most of them would qualify in the original English, and babelfishing them just makes it worse (I'm not even sure what fullen mit pelz would be back-translated... "blah" with fur?). geist klempner is the closest to an actual German slang - Seelenklempner.
Looks like füllen mit pelz literally translates to "full with fur" which vaguely resembles the English slang "stuffed shirt" (the shirt is more useful/valuable than the pompous person stuffed into it).A lot of those are slang anyway.A lot of them are a whole lot of nothing, actually. I don't think most of them would qualify in the original English, and babelfishing them just makes it worse (I'm not even sure what fullen mit pelz would be back-translated... "blah" with fur?). geist klempner is the closest to an actual German slang - Seelenklempner.
I made them up.I had an inkling of that with Ubergenius, but what sounds silly in one language might be perfectly normal in another.
I'm sure the devlog will bear fruit before the weekend's up.
I'm sure the devlog will bear fruit before the weekend's up.
So far we've got plant gathering zones that renew gathering jobs, all gathering jobs now pick up usable item spatter on the ground in a 3x3 square, and gather jobs first process growths from a shrub and then only pick the shrub if the shrub itself is usable. Since there are a variety of growths that can be grabbed at one time, I'm also experimenting with multi-item hauls, though that hasn't moved beyond the gather job yet. There'll probably need to be an upgrade to zones at some point that allow them to handle z-coords and cover more space, but that's a little out of scope for this time. Next I'd like to allow dwarves to pick growths from trees, which of course will require some kind of stepladder or other tool if the fruit is a z-level above the ground.Or before it starts.
Is widespread multi-item hauling within the scope of 0.40.xx?
I'm also experimenting with multi-item hauls, though that hasn't moved beyond the gather job yet.
Next I'd like to allow dwarves to pick growths from trees, which of course will require some kind of stepladder or other tool if the fruit is a z-level above the ground.I'm instantly imagined a goblin with stepladder going to my fortress walls.
I'm instantly imagined a goblin with stepladder going to my fortress walls.
Standing on the top rung of a step ladder is extremely dangerous. I'm sure the dwarves don't care at all.This is a Dwarven stepladder. It has four parts, and all four of them are top steps.
Are ladders also useful for engraving second floor's walls in that 3x3 radius?
But unlikely for the next version, I'd say. With such a specific focus for the feature, it's most likely that'll only work for harvesting tree growths.Are ladders also useful for engraving second floor's walls in that 3x3 radius?
That would definetly be a future potential application.
QuoteI'm instantly imagined a goblin with stepladder going to my fortress walls.
That's what I thought, too.
And then I imagined one of my dwarves kicking the ladder off the wall, falling into the pit he just jumped over to get there...
How does a stepladder work though? Is it furniture? Is it a tool (like a bag or bucket)?I feel that the last dev log fully answered this - they are tools that get carried around.
I decided to go with a stepladder tool. Dwarves can build them, carry them around and climb up on them to access an extra 3x3x2 block of potential fruit above their heads
You know, the sleeping army bug (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=6798) is probably holding up lots of post worldgen interactions, case in point, here's one which has had the army stuck sleeping at the departure point for almost FIVE MONTHS.Maybe this is why the invaders always win? :)
According to the questlog, it started Slate 20th, it's now Limestone 14th. I've checked, the army commander is there in the second tent to the east. I actually visited it months earlier and had to check legends on the location of the commander, then went to the site and there it was, just outside the forest retreat.
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9926
They're also all civillians for some reason, but that's probably a different bug.
Going to use fire to kill them so that I don't get the kills associated with me and see what happens next with the invasion.
Edit: Dang buggy army, they respawned again, although I didn't kill all of them the first time.
Edit2: They respawned again even after giving them a magma bath via DFhack.
You know, the sleeping army bug (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=6798) is probably holding up lots of post worldgen interactions, case in point, here's one which has had the army stuck sleeping at the departure point for almost FIVE MONTHS.Maybe this is why the invaders always win? :)
According to the questlog, it started Slate 20th, it's now Limestone 14th. I've checked, the army commander is there in the second tent to the east. I actually visited it months earlier and had to check legends on the location of the commander, then went to the site and there it was, just outside the forest retreat.
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9926
They're also all civillians for some reason, but that's probably a different bug.
Going to use fire to kill them so that I don't get the kills associated with me and see what happens next with the invasion.
Edit: Dang buggy army, they respawned again, although I didn't kill all of them the first time.
Edit2: They respawned again even after giving them a magma bath via DFhack.
Yeah, it's an intentional placeholder. Not sure where this "bug" meme came from.
Not as far as I know. The bug (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=8202) that you've linked to earlier describes a different possible bug that along with the placeholder of always winning causes a quick destruction of a civ, but it isn't the placeholder.Yeah, it's an intentional placeholder. Not sure where this "bug" meme came from.
Maybe because there's a bug report on it?
Once the stepladder is done, can wheelbarrows and minecarts get the same carrying capacity/stockpile moving treatment?
Once the stepladder is done, can wheelbarrows and minecarts get the same carrying capacity/stockpile moving treatment?
What do you mean by that? I get the wheelbarrows part, but I thought minecarts already have a carrying capacity treatment?
Well, the stepladder itself doesn't carry anything. It's just a tool being added at the same time multi-item hauling is being tested. This is mostly because having a Dwarf pick one apple at a time, and running each one down to a food stockpile 60m below ground, would be a bit silly.Once the stepladder is done, can wheelbarrows and minecarts get the same carrying capacity/stockpile moving treatment?
What do you mean by that? I get the wheelbarrows part, but I thought minecarts already have a carrying capacity treatment?
By that I mean dwarves stack hauling tasks upon the container or tool used to carry said hauled item, instead of carrying them one at a time to the stockpile.
some extra conversation options regarding the emotions of the person you are talking to and what they think about other people (including yourself).
•Made weather init option clear up weather properly instead of just turning off the global simulationDoes this mean I can no longer play Dwarves in Washington State? 8^(
Quote•Made weather init option clear up weather properly instead of just turning off the global simulationDoes this mean I can no longer play Dwarves in Washington State? 8^(
True story: I once tried to turn an entire 2x2 embark into a giant rain funnel. Only having so many murky pools at the top to make the rain turn into actual water kinda made it anticlimactic. I'd love to try again if/when sufficiently torrential downpours could put a bit of water on any surface, and see what happens.
Quote•Made weather init option clear up weather properly instead of just turning off the global simulationDoes this mean I can no longer play Dwarves in Washington State? 8^(
What is the significance of the colors on the new thought screen? For example, arousal from talking to spouses, and fondness from talking to friends are cyan, while satisfaction from work and bliss from sleep are both green. What's similar about the cyan emotions? What's different between the green emotions and the cyan emotions?
Also is there any difference, in terms of dwarf happiness or behavior, between the many different positive emotions? Will dwarves who are aroused by there spouses behave differently from dwarves who are feeling fond of their friends? What about dwarves who are "interested" by fine furniture rather than feeling pleasure from it?
In a similar line of questions, what emotion is behind the 'stumbles around obliviously' (which happens to be a fast blinking light cyan exclaimation mark)? I thought maybe it was like the 'thousand mile stare' or something, but I'm probably wrong.You've never had someone visibly upset just say they are "fine"?
Also, might be helpful for companions to state why they were feeling depressed or 'stumbling around obliviously' and I've had insane/melancholy companions state they were fine when obviously they aren't.
Stopped zombies from interrupting your sleep to ask if they can help you with something
QuoteStopped zombies from interrupting your sleep to ask if they can help you with something
Best Halloween bugfix ever
Increased default embark points to compensate for more default equipment (stepladder etc.)
Do the dwarves seriously expect to get crippled before the carpenter's workshop is up and running?Expect? You could say they pretty much look forward for it.
Is the way that time passes in fortress mode ever going to change? Or did you already put a ring on it?
As for growing up emotionally, do you envision this being part of the caste-like life stages currently planned? Or are you more interested in researching how people really mature?
Will goblin invaders be subject to the new personalities/thoughts when invading in Dwarf Mode or will they be more homogenous brain-wise?
With the new set of emotions, what will change about status icons?
I doubt it would be useful to see every emotion, but will some emotions get their own status icon? Will some not be displayed anymore? Are "melancholy", "madness", "terrified" "enraged", etc even emotions in the sense we're talking about, or are they special cases?
Any chance we might even be able to set them to other tiles ourselves?
I'm not sure if this is the right place for the following question, but here it probably gets most exposure to people that could know an answer.
As the list in graphics_example.txt hasn't been updated for a while, which entries in entity_default.txt are eligible for a custom creature graphic? I assume all POSITION and PERMITTED_JOB entries, but some others are possible, even without being listed as POSITION; namely things like QUEEN, or BARON_CONSORT. They are only referred to as SPOUSE_<gender>. Can we assume that all these are valid creature graphic tokens as well? Are there any others?
Quote from: Zarathustra30Is widespread multi-item hauling within the scope of 0.40.xx?Quote from: PigtailLlamaOnce the stepladder is done, can wheelbarrows and minecarts get the same carrying capacity/stockpile moving treatment?
By that I mean dwarves stack hauling tasks upon the container or tool used to carry said hauled item, instead of carrying them one at a time to the stockpile.
Quote from: PigtailLlamaIf ladders get implemented as a solution to the picking corundum, does that mean we have to build higher walls thanks to siegers carrying ladders on intent of scaling walls 1 or 2 z-levels high?Quote from: ValtamAre ladders also useful for engraving second floor's walls in that 3x3 radius?
Will dwarves use backpacks to carry fruits, too?
When do you decide it's time to work on the next major update? In a general way, I mean. At what point do you stop bugfixing and adding minor features and think "Yep, I think it's time to start working on DF20XX"?
When do you plan to separate the loading time for ranged attacks, as for example crossbows firing slower than bows, and lend us the values for modding, like for example a repeating crossbow and such? It's in the plans?
Quote from: tfaalWhat is the significance of the colors on the new thought screen? For example, arousal from talking to spouses, and fondness from talking to friends are cyan, while satisfaction from work and bliss from sleep are both green. What's similar about the cyan emotions? What's different between the green emotions and the cyan emotions?
Also is there any difference, in terms of dwarf happiness or behavior, between the many different positive emotions? Will dwarves who are aroused by there spouses behave differently from dwarves who are feeling fond of their friends? What about dwarves who are "interested" by fine furniture rather than feeling pleasure from it?Quote from: smjjamesIn a similar line of questions, what emotion is behind the 'stumbles around obliviously' (which happens to be a fast blinking light cyan exclaimation mark)? I thought maybe it was like the 'thousand mile stare' or something, but I'm probably wrong.
this may be the wrong place to ask, but i was curious. since my dwarves seem to party a lot, i was wondering if you planned to add holidays, like a yearly Christmas party, or something similar and randomly generated.
Bloat92, BETTER PARTIES, (Future): Official and commemorative parties. If it is a party for a unit, they can invite friends and family. If it is an official party, it can start from the top nobles and go down. There can be organized feasts and so on.
I removed some specific bug timing questions -- since they were either confirmed or crashes, there's not much more to say, anyway, and I should get to them eventually.
Quote from: tfaalWhat is the significance of the colors on the new thought screen? For example, arousal from talking to spouses, and fondness from talking to friends are cyan, while satisfaction from work and bliss from sleep are both green. What's similar about the cyan emotions? What's different between the green emotions and the cyan emotions?
Also is there any difference, in terms of dwarf happiness or behavior, between the many different positive emotions? Will dwarves who are aroused by there spouses behave differently from dwarves who are feeling fond of their friends? What about dwarves who are "interested" by fine furniture rather than feeling pleasure from it?Quote from: smjjamesIn a similar line of questions, what emotion is behind the 'stumbles around obliviously' (which happens to be a fast blinking light cyan exclaimation mark)? I thought maybe it was like the 'thousand mile stare' or something, but I'm probably wrong.
The cyan and green were just interpersonal vs. solitary good emotions, though really there'll be some circumstances that cause the lines to blur. The actual power of the emotion in terms of eustress or distress is based on the emotion and its numeric strength, where the emotion is determined by the personality+circumstance. Every circumstance has a base numeric strength, which can depend on things like how well you know somebody, but are mostly just numbers. The personality takes the emotion and can raise or decrease the numeric strength, so that a not-so-cheerful dwarf that should be feeling jovial-50 as a baseline might only feel jovial-20.
Overall, one dwarf might feel pleasure-50 at seeing a door, while another might feel interest-20, based on their personality facets and values. Interest is a level-one eustress emotion, so the dwarf gets a 20/8=2 eustress bonus each step, while pleasure is a level-two eustress emotion, so the dwarf gets a 20/4=5 eustress bonus each step (the levels one to four correspond to a divisor of 8, 4, 2 and 1). Things like anguish are level-four distress emotions, so anguish-75 would add 75/1=75 distress points each step. Several of the emotions are neutral, and don't effect the stress level. They only add their eustress/distress value while their sentence is bright in the paragraph -- the gray ones are just for informational purposes. The numeric portion of the emotion is invisible... it seemed clutterful to add intensifiers all over the paragraph. The eustress/distress levels of the emotions are pretty arbitary, but align more or less with the seriousness of the word.
I think I mentioned in a previous FotF that we'd be starting with this stress stuff, but the idea would be to have more secondary effects and behaviors from the emotions later. We have the temporary breakdowns, some running away and so on, but there's a lot more to be done.
The new temporary states like oblivious or depressed (and the old tantrums) are governed by relative anxiety, depression and anger propensities. The permanent states are governed in the same way (which has been the case).
So, the 'stumbling around obliviously' is due to anxiety? Not sure if I'm understanding it right and 'stumbling around obliviously' doesn't seem like it would be due to anxiety. Maybe it just needs to be reworded, I don't know.In the past, unhappy dwarves always threw tantrums. Now, highly stressed dwarves will either throw a tantrum, slip into depression, or stumble around obliviously. Which one gets chosen depends on the dwarf's personality the same way insanity does - tantrums lead to Berserk (influenced by anger propensity), depression leads to Melancholy (influenced by depression propensity), and stumbling leads to Raving (influenced by anxiety propensity).
I have seen somewhere a few years ago you said DF had more or less 100k lines of code. With all the additions (DF 2012 + 2014), how much is it, now, roughly ?
Really shows how much more has been added into the game.I have seen somewhere a few years ago you said DF had more or less 100k lines of code. With all the additions (DF 2012 + 2014), how much is it, now, roughly ?
3 months ago, Toady estimated it at 450k. (https://twitter.com/Bay12Games/status/495072149569146880) I'd imagine the real number to be slightly higher, since that was purely based on semicolons; function definitions etc. are likely going to add a bit.
depression leads to Melancholy (influenced by depression propensity)Shouldn't this be reversed ? Depression is a stronger emotion than Melancholy.
I'm going to plug away for the next few days on the attackers/goblins-always-win issue for world advancement.
« Reply #666 on: Today at 08:44:34 »
I have a question that may have been asked in the past...
...offloading processing cycles to a high end GPU...
...is there plans for better multithreading support...
« Reply #666 on: Today at 08:44:34 »
I have a question that may have been asked in the past...
...offloading processing cycles to a high end GPU...
...is there plans for better multithreading support...
Are you the Devil?
Quote from: PseudopuppetWhen do you decide it's time to work on the next major update? In a general way, I mean. At what point do you stop bugfixing and adding minor features and think "Yep, I think it's time to start working on DF20XX"?
I don't know that there's been a uniform way that works, except maybe the part where I say that I hope it doesn't happen that way each time before it happens. Ideally, there wouldn't be large releases, but it has also been the case often enough that we might find ourselves on a long road again before too many months have passed, all effort to the contrary.
The numeric portion of the emotion is invisible... it seemed clutterful to add intensifiers all over the paragraph. The eustress/distress levels of the emotions are pretty arbitary, but align more or less with the seriousness of the word.What about using alternative words rather than separate intensifiers?
(weapon skills are taken into consideration, and before retirement you might want to appoint skilled weapon people to official positions so they aren't as likely to move to your next fort)
(that is what makes it weird -- it doesn't look at the non-historical part of the army, due to some annoyances I couldn't iron out in the short time I had... since your fortress is 100% historical, that gives you a significant advantage, and you already have the defensive bonus from being a fortress... so you should be almost unstoppable against vanilla civs, which is better than always losing. modded civs with strong historical critters will have roughly the same advantage they experience in world gen, in one-on-one combat)
I'm a bit confused about world activation and how it is internally different from initial world generation. The latest update addressed an issue where attackers would always win whenever attempting to conquer a site in the activated world. As far as I can tell, this was an "intentional" workaround/stub because correctly determining the outcome wasn't implemented, and still isn't fully implemented. This struck me as odd because WG has been able to do this for a long time already.
So I'm wondering what internally is the difference between world generation and the activated world? Why can't they both implement the same ways of simulating things?
I agree that always winning is better than always losing when it comes to player forts. I can see that it would be a significant task to do this exactly right.From the Announcements thread:
I wonder though if you could just gen up some temporary soldiers before the battle to fill out the population, and then purge them when it's over. If one serves with distinction maybe you could elevate them to historical.
EDIT: Ok, I have a question.
What happens to non-historical army pops after a failed attack? Are they all killed? Are none killed? Is the army destroyed or does it just go attack elsewhere?
Though the quirk of the system I mentioned in fotf (army pops not mattering) give defenders better odds in the abstract fights. The army pops aren't killed, but they don't fight either, and if their commanders and other accompanying historical figures are killed they'll retreat back home.
I'm a bit confused about world activation and how it is internally different from initial world generation. The latest update addressed an issue where attackers would always win whenever attempting to conquer a site in the activated world. As far as I can tell, this was an "intentional" workaround/stub because correctly determining the outcome wasn't implemented, and still isn't fully implemented. This struck me as odd because WG has been able to do this for a long time already.
So I'm wondering what internally is the difference between world generation and the activated world? Why can't they both implement the same ways of simulating things?
I'd speculate that the main difference is that post-worldgen simulation has to take into account the actions of the player. That includes both dealing with things the player has done (which are likely recorded in much more detail than happens in worldgen), and interacting with the player while they're currently playing (which happens in (semi) real-time).
I'm a bit confused about world activation and how it is internally different from initial world generation. The latest update addressed an issue where attackers would always win whenever attempting to conquer a site in the activated world. As far as I can tell, this was an "intentional" workaround/stub because correctly determining the outcome wasn't implemented, and still isn't fully implemented. This struck me as odd because WG has been able to do this for a long time already.
So I'm wondering what internally is the difference between world generation and the activated world? Why can't they both implement the same ways of simulating things?
I'd speculate that the main difference is that post-worldgen simulation has to take into account the actions of the player. That includes both dealing with things the player has done (which are likely recorded in much more detail than happens in worldgen), and interacting with the player while they're currently playing (which happens in (semi) real-time).
pretty much.. but let's not forget the time speed weirdness. That is: in-game time speed of Fortress mode vs Adventurer mode vs everything else :P
I feel Jubilation at the recent confirmation of the Tavern Arc.
Are there plans to change the mechanics of citizen mastication and potation? (i.e. Will dwarves use mugs?)
Oh dear, it looks like bugfixing phase ended. :(
Well, I hope that four major points mentioned in dev page (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html) will get their own separate releases. Otherwise you can kiss next decade goodbye.
The nice thing about this, I think, having it set up in four separate sections, clearly delineated, is that we at least know, unlike some of the previous releases, that there are going to be pauses, where we can do some bug-fixes, do some small suggestions, in between. We’re going to try our best to do, when necessary, releases while we’re actually working on one section. But at least we’ll have that, that we can have some breaks, that there’s not going to be another two-year release...
At what point during the development timeline will trading with civilizations in Fortress Mode be finalized so that trade exports affect the demands and exports of those civilizations? To clarify, right now you could trade a civilization hundreds of crafts or food every year and the value of those items do not adjust for the proceeding year. My question is when will this be adjusted/coded so that it matters what you trade and the amounts due to demands by other sites taking into account what you export.
I know that sooner or later every fortress falls and you can reclaim it afterwards with a group of brand new dwarfs. But will we ever have scenarios where we actually get a chance to continue the history of the original group as something like refugees or slaves who break free?
Do you mean historical figures as in historical information data saved with each Civ Site?At what point during the development timeline will trading with civilizations in Fortress Mode be finalized so that trade exports affect the demands and exports of those civilizations? To clarify, right now you could trade a civilization hundreds of crafts or food every year and the value of those items do not adjust for the proceeding year. My question is when will this be adjusted/coded so that it matters what you trade and the amounts due to demands by other sites taking into account what you export.
That will still take a while, as it's effectively the next step in bringing back the economy, and as far as I can tell, taverns, fortress starting scenario's and job priorities come first. Arefacts are the closest thing to what you're describing, and those are basically... historical figures of a sort.
Artifacts are not historical figures. Historical figures refers only to the creatures you'll see in the legends mode "Historical Figures" listing.
Will there be any other types of games than dices ? I would be very interested if you could talk more about these (if you have already thought enough about it !)
Toady:From DFTalk (http://bay12games.com/media/df_talk_combined_transcript.html).
It's all going in with ... There's going to be nothing wrong with having your tavern meeting hall, your dwarves decide to throw a party there, there happens to be a merchant there; that's actually part of the idea, to have your dwarves around those people so that one of your dwarves could challenge a visiting merchant to a Tacticus game or something and that was one of the main things we were planning to explore with that, these interrelationships and also just the games themselves. We were thinking, well, if you've got a dwarf and an outsider playing a game you should be able to pop in and control the dwarf and just pop up a little game screen and play with some games. The starting point for that was adventure mode, because of course going in a tavern and just rolling dice or playing a little game of some kind is a perfectly reasonable thing for an adventurer to do. The problem with adventure mode mechanics sometimes is that they don't make it into dwarf mode until way later, like with the combat reports where that kind of fighting was going on but you couldn't read the text of what actually happened until recently. The idea this time is to get the dice games and card games and board games - or whatever we end up adding first - into both modes at the same time, so that you'd be able to control your dwarves playing against the outsiders, and perhaps if your dwarves are playing with each other you'd be able to pick one of them to jump into. I'm not quite as certain about that but it might be required just to give you the opportunity to do this very much. If two people are playing a game at a table in a meeting hall then they're going to be playing that game for a certain amount of time, like several days in dwarf mode the way it works, or at least a couple of days ...
Rainseeker:
A very addictive game.
Toady:
So it'll probably just pop up a little notification in the top left corner, one of those little letters or something, just letting you know that you can jump into something if you want, and then you'd be able to pop in and play the game in frozen time, so no time passes while you're resolving it, and then when you leave the game would either adjourn or they'd continue sitting at that table for the same amount of time they would have, so that it doesn't feel like there's any meta-gaming going on that way. I mean jumping into someone's head and playing a game for them is already kind of meta-gaming, so it's not that big a deal. You could, if one of your gambling addict dwarves decides to gamble away your anvil or something, then maybe you can jump in there and win the game for him.
There will likely be card games too at least.I like the idea of cards having similar properties to coins, with art depicting historical events/figures and such, different sets of cards for different civs. Would be a pretty fun thing to collect in adventure mode too.
I have heard of randomly generated games. I'm so hyped !
Will there be any other types of games than dices ? I would be very interested if you could talk more about these (if you have already thought enough about it !)
Toady:
Hehe. Yeah it's about time. It's about time for the instruments, and... We're also going to do dancing and storytelling and some other things that people can do in taverns. And this will also carry over in general to any parties that the dwarves throw, I mean once you have a tavern it'll be more likely that dwarves will throw a party there, but they'll sometimes will still throw them in the statue gardens or other places that you set up for them. But they'll be able to use their instruments and probably also have children playing with toys, just get all the items up and running. So you have this little bustling stuff going on in your fortress. People, for a while now, have been clamoring for the return of recipes, which we had very briefly, and those will make it back.
And your fortress will be able to kind of get a reputation based on the services you have available, and the quality of the drinks you're selling. And we're toying with the idea of having a local dish, that kind of thing. So that's all, that's all on the table for this, and in the notes . You'll be able to rent rooms to people. Finally you'll be able to have games. We're trying to randomly generate some games. We'll do what we can with dice games, and board games. They've have all been around for thousands of years so it's all fair, and your dwarves will be able to gamble, he he he. And we'll be able to... We're thinking because we have it in adventure mode anyway, the ability to play games when we do that part, which we'll talk about in a second, that you'll also be able to play the games directly if one of your dwarves is playing, just to give you a chance to see it, and to experience the game.
Threetoe:
And to stop your dwarf from gambling away all the treasure of your fortress...
Toady:
He he he. It's also important to understand what property means in the fortress because until we have that, perhaps the dwarves will be able to gamble away your entire crafts pile. And it'll be up to you to stop them, or to kill the guest with magma... He he, after they win your stuff.
We're trying to randomly generate some games. We'll do what we can with dice games, and board games. They've have all been around for thousands of years so it's all fair, and your dwarves will be able to gamble, he he he. And we'll be able to... We're thinking because we have it in adventure mode anyway, the ability to play games when we do that part, which we'll talk about in a second, that you'll also be able to play the games directly if one of your dwarves is playing, just to give you a chance to see it, and to experience the game.
How much do we have to donate to have you do a guitar piece per season?Enough to feed him and house him. c:
I cleaned up some crashes today. One of them involved a night creature that had wandered into a shop and killed the owner... the creature then somehow got assigned as the owner. The crash happened when the night creature tried to come up with things to say to potential shoppers, since it didn't have a civilization as a frame of reference. I fixed that part, but I still have no idea why it thought it should change professions in the first place...
At what point in the future will places (like deserts and forests) have names which are not set in stone, but given to them by civilizations living near them?The response to these sorts of questions tends to be "Planned, but no specific time line" unless it's imminent in the current cluster of releases. I don't think overhauling names is in the current cluster (but I wouldn't mind being wrong!).
When will places have names related to their particular features (naming a forest full of apple trees the Forest of Apple Trees, for example)?
Store region names by entity, not all places would have names, ability to give names to the regions/rivers/peaks etc. that you discover
...a night creature that had wandered into a shop and killed the owner... the creature then somehow got assigned as the owner. The crash happened when the night creature tried to come up with things to say to potential shoppers, since it didn't have a civilization as a frame of reference. I fixed that part...
Surprisingly, this is not a new problem.Quote from: Toady One...a night creature that had wandered into a shop and killed the owner... the creature then somehow got assigned as the owner. The crash happened when the night creature tried to come up with things to say to potential shoppers, since it didn't have a civilization as a frame of reference. I fixed that part...
I imagine him... "oh! new costumers, and I didn't even finished eating the last owner, it's all a mess, I hope they don't notice... now... what do I say... hi... welcome, what can I... aghhh.... this is too hard!"
By fixed I hope you mean we have awesome daemons and werewolves running shops in a extremely baffling and amicable way...
Surprisingly, this is not a new problem.Quote from: Toady One...a night creature that had wandered into a shop and killed the owner... the creature then somehow got assigned as the owner. The crash happened when the night creature tried to come up with things to say to potential shoppers, since it didn't have a civilization as a frame of reference. I fixed that part...
I imagine him... "oh! new costumers, and I didn't even finished eating the last owner, it's all a mess, I hope they don't notice... now... what do I say... hi... welcome, what can I... aghhh.... this is too hard!"
By fixed I hope you mean we have awesome daemons and werewolves running shops in a extremely baffling and amicable way...Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Surprisingly, this is not a new problem.Quote from: Toady One...a night creature that had wandered into a shop and killed the owner... the creature then somehow got assigned as the owner. The crash happened when the night creature tried to come up with things to say to potential shoppers, since it didn't have a civilization as a frame of reference. I fixed that part...
I imagine him... "oh! new costumers, and I didn't even finished eating the last owner, it's all a mess, I hope they don't notice... now... what do I say... hi... welcome, what can I... aghhh.... this is too hard!"
By fixed I hope you mean we have awesome daemons and werewolves running shops in a extremely baffling and amicable way...Spoiler (click to show/hide)
What movie is that clip from?
All breeding also occurs within touch range now, though there isn't a new activity for it or anything. Some more tools for breeding and animal population control are now in place. Due to the raw changes, it won't be available in old saves without tweaking the raws.
Today saw the addition of an oft-requested feature -- the ability to geld! We stayed away from new parts, but there's a body part tag for it on appropriate male critters, as well as a job and so on. The job takes place at the farmer's workshop after the animal is designated in a way similar to slaughtering. The process is modeled with a wound within the existing framework.
Nah, it just means that certain lower body wounds will cause sterility. It'll be more interesting for mods that add important parts.
Will the gelding reaction be automated? If not, why?
The job takes place at the farmer's workshop after the animal is designated in a way similar to slaughtering.
Surprisingly, this is not a new problem.Quote from: Toady One...a night creature that had wandered into a shop and killed the owner... the creature then somehow got assigned as the owner. The crash happened when the night creature tried to come up with things to say to potential shoppers, since it didn't have a civilization as a frame of reference. I fixed that part...
I imagine him... "oh! new costumers, and I didn't even finished eating the last owner, it's all a mess, I hope they don't notice... now... what do I say... hi... welcome, what can I... aghhh.... this is too hard!"
By fixed I hope you mean we have awesome daemons and werewolves running shops in a extremely baffling and amicable way...Spoiler (click to show/hide)
What movie is that clip from?
The Terminator (1984) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088247/)
will the removed parts be *ahem* ready for consummation after the fact?No. There are no parts.
Also a werewolf should regenerate those too right?Transformation cures all wounds, neutering is a wound, so they should recover from neutering - not that I expect either weres or civilized creatures to be eligible for gelding.
Are there any behaviorchanges planned in the future to accommodate the new breeding? Like males going activly after females?Presumably there are plans, but likely there is no timeline.
I wonder if Toady One realizes the can of worms opened here, heh.
Can dwarves or other sentients be neutered intentionally by the player?
If so, when a dwarf or other sentient is neutered, will it cause appropriate bad thoughts?
If both of these things have been considered, will neutered dwarves or sentients seek out lycanthropy or other potential magical cures?
If I neuter all the elves in a trade caravan, will their civilization declare war on my dwarves?
To avoid having to create new bodies for the males, there was also a small addition to the raws to allow body part tags to be added/removed after a caste has bodies. It only works with the simple tags like LOWERBODY/STANCE/SIGHT/GUTS/etc. rather than tissue flags at this point, but it's useful for a few things. For example, after declaring the male caste, [SET_BP_GROUP:BY_TYPE:LOWERBODY][BP_ADD_TYPE:GELDABLE].
Toady no longer uses the Cores to determine version numbers. IIRC, he still has a list on what certain features are "worth" for version numbers, but that list isn't public. Besides, he doesn't decide on the version number until the release is feature-complete.Ah. Since when did he abandon the core system? I guess the wiki should reflect this. Nevertheless, the question still stands, if appropriately edited.
I believe he abandoned it with version 0.31.01.Toady no longer uses the Cores to determine version numbers. IIRC, he still has a list on what certain features are "worth" for version numbers, but that list isn't public. Besides, he doesn't decide on the version number until the release is feature-complete.Ah. Since when did he abandon the core system? I guess the wiki should reflect this. Nevertheless, the question still stands, if appropriately edited.
Hrm,
This has the potential to cause some very strong emotional reactions in sentients.
Can dwarves or other sentients be neutered intentionally by the player?
If so, when a dwarf or other sentient is neutered, will it cause appropriate bad thoughts?
If both of these things have been considered, will neutered dwarves or sentients seek out lycanthropy or other potential magical cures?
If I neuter all the elves in a trade caravan, will their civilization declare war on my dwarves?
The job takes place at the farmer's workshop after the animal is designated in a way similar to slaughtering.
they can't have other creatures sharing rooms with them because if one of those extras steps on her nest box tile she will get disturbed and the eggs die. Because of this, every other clutch dies because when one clutch hatches the female immediately lays a second, and the hatchlings immediately disturb her and thus kill the eggs
I couldn't find a bug report for this -- the eggs are supposed to last a week unattended, the egg-sitting behavior is fairly high priority, and the timer resets if there is any sitting at all, so minor disturbances shouldn't matter. I don't have a lot of in-game experience though -- does the weekly timer seem to be broken? Or do they not go back to their box?I believe there is some confusion over how egg laying worked exactly (I didn't know there was a weekly timer, and it isn't mentioned on the wiki). There are a lot of variables involved, mainly due to whether or not the eggs are fertilized. It is hard to tell if the eggs failed to hatch due to an egg-layer with insufficient time on the nest box, interruption by other creatures, or because the egg wasn't fertilized in the first place. I was under the impression that the bird needed to stay on the nest box the whole time, and no creature could ever be on the nest box other than the mother, or the eggs would never hatch. However, I vaguely remember seeing an elk bird move off of a nest box (for training as I recall), thinking the eggs were ruined, then seeing them hatch anyway.
they can't have other creatures sharing rooms with them because if one of those extras steps on her nest box tile she will get disturbed and the eggs die. Because of this, every other clutch dies because when one clutch hatches the female immediately lays a second, and the hatchlings immediately disturb her and thus kill the eggs
I couldn't find a bug report for this -- the eggs are supposed to last a week unattended, the egg-sitting behavior is fairly high priority, and the timer resets if there is any sitting at all, so minor disturbances shouldn't matter. I don't have a lot of in-game experience though -- does the weekly timer seem to be broken? Or do they not go back to their box?
When will items have their own descriptions and prefstrings (analogous to the creature ones)? I'd love to see a dwarf that "likes mugs for their roundness" or something silly like that.
When will items have their own descriptions and prefstrings (analogous to the creature ones)? I'd love to see a dwarf that "likes mugs for their roundness" or something silly like that.
No offense, but why? It seems like it would just slow down the game for no real reason, sorry I'm not trying to be mean I honestly wonder why someone would like an item over something else, a weapon is understandable, but a cup, plate, fork, etc, doesn't really make sense to me.
When will items have their own descriptions and prefstrings (analogous to the creature ones)? I'd love to see a dwarf that "likes mugs for their roundness" or something silly like that.
No offense, but why? It seems like it would just slow down the game for no real reason, sorry I'm not trying to be mean I honestly wonder why someone would like an item over something else, a weapon is understandable, but a cup, plate, fork, etc, doesn't really make sense to me.
However, I vaguely remember seeing an elk bird move off of a nest box (for training as I recall), thinking the eggs were ruined, then seeing them hatch anyway.Perhaps for feeding (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=4637)?
Back to naughty bits, is there any reason as to why females won't be neuterable just like males, since there isn't any new body part involved?
Back to naughty bits, is there any reason as to why females won't be neuterable just like males, since there isn't any new body part involved?Probably moddable.
Back to naughty bits, is there any reason as to why females won't be neuterable just like males, since there isn't any new body part involved?Probably moddable.
I'm feeling pretty talkative today (thanks to the people who replied to me by the way). Oh well, anyway, we all know about the way you go on tangents when something you want to implement requires a framework that doesn't exist yet so you add it, and then it turns out this framework requires another addition that you add in too and so on (such as world activation requiring full-fledged sites requiring elf orchards requiring fruit etc.) so my question is, what circumstances led you to add the ability to geld? What more "tangential" features do you think will be added along the way?
i dont know if this has been asked or if i didnt saw it in the development plan but.Yes, this is planned (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html):
will adventurers be able to tame or buy domesticated creatures? i mean, like getting war/hunting dogs or even exotic pets as aditional support. also exotic mounts
Adventurer Role: Hero
*Mounts
**Can buy them as with livestock, handled as with livestock
Basic Adventure Mode Skills
*Raising livestock
**Ability to buy a livestock animal and lead it around
**Keep track of your animals as with hunted animals so they are not easily and permanently lost
Before I ask this of Toady, I'll ask this of the community - is touch range same-tile only, or is it adjacent tiles, like hand to hand combat?
Will gelding potentially change animal behaviour, making them less likely to fight for the pasture, for example?I don't think hormones are modeled (yet). If it did change behavior beyond the animal ability to mate, it probably would have been said. The post was just talking about changes to mating.
not sure if this has been asked already but how high is implementing the magic itemsIf Toady implements magic swords, they're more likely to have a random SPHERE effect.
such as ◀Sword►
on the list. im craving a ◀!!<<bone Sword>>!!► just for the shear awesomeness of running around with a magical flaming bone sword. who cares bone is not the best material for a sword. its AEWSOME!
(even more awesome if its dragon bone and has fire opal on it)
A skilled swordsman can do any of those things with a normal sword :)not sure if this has been asked already but how high is implementing the magic itemsIf Toady implements magic swords, they're more likely to have a random SPHERE effect.
such as ◀Sword►
on the list. im craving a ◀!!<<bone Sword>>!!► just for the shear awesomeness of running around with a magical flaming bone sword. who cares bone is not the best material for a sword. its AEWSOME!
(even more awesome if its dragon bone and has fire opal on it)
It may result in a sword which makes enemy very unhappy upon being hit. Or may render enemy completely unfertile. Or may curse enemy so that he will never be successful at fishing ever again. Or make enemy the worst trader known to this world.
There are many spheres.
Adjacent.
but isn't there a sphere for fire? I need to brush up on my sphere knowledge. I haven't checked them since I made that entity file
And the birth sphere effect spawns babies of the species you're fighting whenever you strike them. :P
Another single-purpose profession?Armor Making, Arms Making and Tool Making though they have synergies are different specializations. Or are you decrying the plethora of other jobs?We definitely need to do something to stop those skills from multiplying so much! Fortress needs smiths, NOT wax workers, armokdammit.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
On a lighter note, I am about to start a cross-training program for my sworddwarves. This should help us against goblins, at least in long-term.
I had expected the job to fall under the labors of animal caretakers or dissectors, or maybe surgeons (good training eh?)
Added gelding and associated profession/skill/etc.
Any more plans for optimization soon? Even with only 80 fort dwarves there is still quite a significant difference in FPS from .34 to .40. This is worrying for a lot of people.Nopes. ToadyOne has made it an urgent goal, to make DF run only as slowly as possible.
Also, thanks for adding gelding.
Any more plans for optimization soon? Even with only 80 fort dwarves there is still quite a significant difference in FPS from .34 to .40.
Any more plans for optimization soon? Even with only 80 fort dwarves there is still quite a significant difference in FPS from .34 to .40.
I'd actually like to see the data on this! Mostly because speculating on causes of slowdown is my favorite counterproductive thing to do.
EDIT: No sarcasm, I really do enjoy speculating on slowdown causes even though that's a fruitless endeavor leading to nothing but sorrow if acted upon
...goddammit let me go on record as not making fun of anybody here
Nopes. ToadyOne has made it an urgent goal, to make DF run only as slowly as possible.Sarcasm fail. Actually, Toady indeed makes DF run as slowly as possible - albeit unintentionally (by adding new features).
Does the new breeding mechanic play nice with egg-laying critters?
Females spend nearly their entire adult lives on the nest box, because if one clutch is gathered late or hatches she will instantly lay another clutch in that same box, and they can't have other creatures sharing rooms with them because if one of those extras steps on her nest box tile she will get disturbed and the eggs die. Because of this, every other clutch dies because when one clutch hatches the female immediately lays a second, and the hatchlings immediately disturb her and thus kill the eggs, and the player must micro-manage egg layers pastures to get them to breed at a reasonable rate, which means only females, or only one female, per pasture. But with this mechanic, a male must share a room with egg-laying females, correct? Otherwise fertilization will never occur. But then the male must immediately be removed...
If Toady didn't change behaviour to reflect change (breeding on touch instead of spores), I predict that some species will have problems with breeding (egglayers?...) and it will be significantly slower in some cases (grazers on any bigger pasture, anyone?).
Toady probably will have to address it after complaints of players.
If you really think that, then you have absolutely no idea what "as slowly as possible" means.In my book, adding tons of details that does not influence gameplay and almost never are visible in any way (except bugs, of course) certainly counts. It makes game slower for no benefit of anyone.
- Got rid of mating-at-a-distance
If you really think that, then you have absolutely no idea what "as slowly as possible" means.In my book, adding tons of details that does not influence gameplay and almost never are visible in any way (except bugs, of course) certainly counts. It makes game slower for no benefit of anyone.
If you really think that, then you have absolutely no idea what "as slowly as possible" means.In my book, adding tons of details that does not influence gameplay and almost never are visible in any way (except bugs, of course) certainly counts. It makes game slower for no benefit of anyone.
World activation is required framework if Toady wants to go into further development of the economy and armies, despite it being almost unnoticeable during the gameplay of your fort.No, world activation does not count, as it already influences game in very visible ways, like one of your 7 dorfs suddenly being king. That sometimes king has somewhat... unrealistic expectations is completely different issue.
Nope. Key word is "possible". Game that is so slow as you said wolud be impossible to play. So it is not possible that DF with this kind of speed would be released, let alone popular.In my book, adding tons of details that does not influence gameplay and almost never are visible in any way (except bugs, of course) certainly counts. It makes game slower for no benefit of anyone.No, I am dead serious. "As slowly as possible" is a gigantic exaggeration. "As slowly as possible" is perfectly synonymous with "Your FPS is 1/(total age of the universe past present and future)".
World activation is required framework if Toady wants to go into further development of the economy and armies, despite it being almost unnoticeable during the gameplay of your fort.No, world activation does not count, as it already influences game in very visible ways, like one of your 7 dorfs suddenly being king. That sometimes king has somewhat... unrealistic expectations is completely different issue.Nope. Key word is "possible". Game that is so slow as you said wolud be impossible to play. So it is not possible that DF with this kind of speed would be released, let alone popular.In my book, adding tons of details that does not influence gameplay and almost never are visible in any way (except bugs, of course) certainly counts. It makes game slower for no benefit of anyone.No, I am dead serious. "As slowly as possible" is a gigantic exaggeration. "As slowly as possible" is perfectly synonymous with "Your FPS is 1/(total age of the universe past present and future)".
This all is tempest in teapot anyway, as all I did was aswering to somenone's else hyperbolic sarcasm.
Nopes. ToadyOne has made it an urgent goal, to make DF run only as slowly as possible.Sarcasm fail. Actually, Toady indeed makes DF run as slowly as possible - albeit unintentionally (by adding new features).
With the addition of fruits, nuts, legumes, and vegetables, what's the current planned roadmap of processed foodstuffs and meals?
Is the current development plan to prolong this small-update development cycle as long as possible and see how far we can get with the minor patches and single-feature upgrades, rather than diving back deep into coding and coming back up for air in another year?
I'm wondering what internally is the difference between world generation and the activated world? Why can't they both implement the same ways of simulating things?
So once taverns/inns are implemented, we'll be up to two types of special rooms that are designated by placing furniture and then setting a zone (hospitals being the other one). I know you commented about this a bit in the new DF Talk episode, but do you think that now there's a good chance that all rooms and workshops will end up being defined this way?
At what point during the development timeline will trading with civilizations in Fortress Mode be finalized so that trade exports affect the demands and exports of those civilizations? To clarify, right now you could trade a civilization hundreds of crafts or food every year and the value of those items do not adjust for the proceeding year. My question is when will this be adjusted/coded so that it matters what you trade and the amounts due to demands by other sites taking into account what you export.
Quote from: cybergonI know that sooner or later every fortress falls and you can reclaim it afterwards with a group of brand new dwarfs. But will we ever have scenarios where we actually get a chance to continue the history of the original group as something like refugees or slaves who break free?Quote from: paluAs part of starting scenarios, will starting dwarves be existing historical figures instead of being generated out of thin air? What about adventurers?
And on a kind of similar note, do you ever plan on making civilizations go through some sort of progression so perhaps we see tiny groups of nomads who eventually become either a horde or settle as a tribe and then turn into a proper kingdom?
Are standard yearly player artifacts generally going to end up a little different from the full on god stolen paranoia breeding civilization symbolizing artifacts? Speaking of paranoia, will we be able to control the spread of information on our treasures?
Will there be any other types of games than dices ? I would be very interested if you could talk more about these (if you have already thought enough about it !)
How much do we have to donate to have you do a guitar piece per season?
Quote from: ClownmiteWe all love the nonsensical epithets that are generated for notable figures, but is there a chance of getting some more sensible ones intermingled in soon, such as "X the Swordsman", "X the Rock", "X the Wise", or "X One-eye" based on equipment, encounters, or physical/mental characteristics? I can imagine that, for instance, it would make it a little more engaging and easier to remember a journey to kill Bax the Pillager instead of Bax Cryptsquarreled the Foresty Glaive of Wandering
I know a more intensive linguistics rewrite is a later power goal, but I think especially with the world being activated it would make it a little easier to keep track of the hundreds of historical guys running around if some of them had slightly more "familiar" names / epithets.Quote from: SergarrWhen will places have names related to their particular features (naming a forest full of apple trees the Forest of Apple Trees, for example)?
On that note, are there any plans to be able to mark characters as "interesting" and/or be able add some brief notes to them that would persist through the modes?
Perhaps marking a character as interesting makes their name show up in light blue instead of white when their name comes up (similar to how PCs show up in Legends), so it's a little easier to track throughout the adventure mode screens. And when browsing Legends mode and you see him highlighted, you can add a note that he killed your character, and later you see these when he shows up in Fortress Mode.
Can a random lower body wound inflicted through combat or other cause, cause sterility now?
That is, is it possible via random chance to induce sterility outside of the gelding interaction (since it works via a wound) or is it only possible to achieve the sterility via the gelding interaction?
If we add a geldable tag to female critters, will this in turn allow specific females to be sterilized?
Quote from: locustgateWill castrating cows affect meat production......eventuallyQuote from: samanatoWill gelding potentially change animal behaviour, making them less likely to fight for the pasture, for example?
Toady, would you consider allowing those tissue flags to be modified the same way at some point, or would it be too complicated on the programming end to bother with?
When will items have their own descriptions and prefstrings (analogous to the creature ones)? I'd love to see a dwarf that "likes mugs for their roundness" or something silly like that.
we all know about the way you go on tangents when something you want to implement requires a framework that doesn't exist yet so you add it, and then it turns out this framework requires another addition that you add in too and so on (such as world activation requiring full-fledged sites requiring elf orchards requiring fruit etc.) so my question is, what circumstances led you to add the ability to geld? What more "tangential" features do you think will be added along the way?
About multiplication of skills, I think someday Toady will simplify it and it will be much better after that, like for all things he did before. (first steps, densification, complexification, complete mess, then rationalisation and new system)
Why not creating, for example, a "Creating" skill, which will include potery,metalsmith,wax worker, leather, cloth, etc...and could be coupled with a material preference ? I know it's not the place to make suggestion, but here is my question related to profession anyway :
Do you plan one day of simplifying the profession tree, and if yes, could you tell us more about it ?
Thank you for your replies , Toady !
I remember back in .40d you could reclaim your fallen fortress by leading sometime a big army of dwarves armed to the teeth and fight/die against the demons that were infesting the place.
It would be a lot of fun if this lost armed reclaim feature could make it back through the links between Adventure and Fortress mode.
There's a lot of different directions that that'll go, but we've written them down on the development page to check out. For instance, reclaim mechanics can all be folded into the start scenario system: Why are you doing this reclaim, and what is the overall situation? Kinda bring back that situation we had before where you were allowed to take several soldiers with you, several groups of soldiers really, into the reclaim instead of just always starting with seven dwarves.From this transcript (http://bay12games.com/media/df_talk_22_transcript.html#22.g).
We don't really have a mechanism for playing a full group outside of fortress mode at this time, though we have dev items about single adventurers better able to lead groups and also playing as a "party". It would be funny to assume the role of your failed dwarves as an adventure mode party, assuming they were a small enough group.
It will at least come back in some form. Toady mentioned it in the last DFTalk in relation to starting scenarios.Thanks ! nice to see it's getting some thoughts.QuoteThere's a lot of different directions that that'll go, but we've written them down on the development page to check out. For instance, reclaim mechanics can all be folded into the start scenario system: Why are you doing this reclaim, and what is the overall situation? Kinda bring back that situation we had before where you were allowed to take several soldiers with you, several groups of soldiers really, into the reclaim instead of just always starting with seven dwarves.From this transcript (http://bay12games.com/media/df_talk_22_transcript.html#22.g).
The new gelding stuff is a stark notice that things need to be adjusted, but a rewrite at the time would have been too time-consuming (since jobs/skills/professions/buildings are too closely linked), and the issue of bizarrely-specialized migrants is only tangentially related to the overall skill system -- there needs to be some sort of "life path" sim for non-historical critters, and the work histories of historical critters need to make sense. Even if somebody be trained as just a skilled gelder, it wouldn't have been a viable career for the average person.
The messiness of the skill system wouldn't matter so much if it weren't for the profession setting stuff, I suspect. We'll have to see how experiments play out with the start scenarios that remove/curtail v-p-l profession setting. Start scenarios would be strengthened by a knowledge system, but it's unclear what we'll get to. It'd be interesting to see how forts work if certain jobs can only be done in a tragically shoddy fashion if relevant knowledge is not possessed by any current citizens. It's the sort of thing that can be reverse-engineered into invention/knowledge advancement as well, though we have to be careful about that.
Thanks Toady for the answers, and for the continued work on the game.The new gelding stuff is a stark notice that things need to be adjusted, but a rewrite at the time would have been too time-consuming (since jobs/skills/professions/buildings are too closely linked), and the issue of bizarrely-specialized migrants is only tangentially related to the overall skill system -- there needs to be some sort of "life path" sim for non-historical critters, and the work histories of historical critters need to make sense. Even if somebody be trained as just a skilled gelder, it wouldn't have been a viable career for the average person.
I've always kinda wondered where Strand Extractor migrants do their apprenticeships. There is another use for strand extracting bouncing around the Suggestions forum, but it's not (yet?) part of the core game.QuoteThe messiness of the skill system wouldn't matter so much if it weren't for the profession setting stuff, I suspect. We'll have to see how experiments play out with the start scenarios that remove/curtail v-p-l profession setting. Start scenarios would be strengthened by a knowledge system, but it's unclear what we'll get to. It'd be interesting to see how forts work if certain jobs can only be done in a tragically shoddy fashion if relevant knowledge is not possessed by any current citizens. It's the sort of thing that can be reverse-engineered into invention/knowledge advancement as well, though we have to be careful about that.
Maybe I'm reading too much into the bolded sentence, but it reminds me of all those contrived movie/TV situations where the expert needs to relay instructions to another character to defuse a bomb or treat a wound. Do you envision a task system where more than one Dwarf can be assigned to work together on the same job? Something like this already exists for squads, but the poor fisherman has to drag his giant sperm whale back to the butcher shop all by himself.
Will we ever be able to enslave captured invaders/innocent elves, chain them up and make them do easy jobs?(e.g. Farming)
Will we ever be able to enslave captured invaders/innocent elves, chain them up and make them do easy jobs?(e.g. Farming)
Dwarves consider slavery a capital offense; being a known slaver means you are executed.
Will we ever be able to enslave captured invaders/innocent elves, chain them up and make them do easy jobs?(e.g. Farming)
If not, will we at leats be able to sell captured invaders to human caravans?
specific suggestions belong for the most part in the suggestion forum (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=5.0)
Was any consideration given to rolling the gelding task into the Animal Caretaker skill? If the Animal Caretaker skill/profession is intended to develop into a veterinary role, isn't having a separate skill duplicative?
QuoteAdded gelding and associated profession/skill/etc.
I also would have thought as either a medical skill (like surgery) or animal something (like animal caring or training). Creating a new competence for just gelding is (IMHO) a waste of time and clarity in skills unless....unless...it will eventually become a fighting skill :p
About multiplication of skills, I think someday Toady will simplify it and it will be much better after that, like for all things he did before. (first steps, densification, complexification, complete mess, then rationalisation and new system)
Why not creating, for example, a "Creating" skill, which will include potery,metalsmith,wax worker, leather, cloth, etc...and could be coupled with a material preference ? I know it's not the place to make suggestion, but here is my question related to profession anyway :
Do you plan one day of simplifying the profession tree, and if yes, could you tell us more about it ?
I don't think it's an improvement to collapse everything down to one skill, though I think the current system suffers from a lack of overlap. At the same time, I'd like to separate experience/practice from knowledge (which could lead to some collapse of practiced skills, maybe). We had a kind of disastrous thing prepared for the Armok game, where the materials and different methods were taken into consideration, and I'm not really sure where we'll end up here. The new gelding stuff is a stark notice that things need to be adjusted, but a rewrite at the time would have been too time-consuming (since jobs/skills/professions/buildings are too closely linked), and the issue of bizarrely-specialized migrants is only tangentially related to the overall skill system -- there needs to be some sort of "life path" sim for non-historical critters, and the work histories of historical critters need to make sense. Even if somebody be trained as just a skilled gelder, it wouldn't have been a viable career for the average person.
The messiness of the skill system wouldn't matter so much if it weren't for the profession setting stuff, I suspect. We'll have to see how experiments play out with the start scenarios that remove/curtail v-p-l profession setting. Start scenarios would be strengthened by a knowledge system, but it's unclear what we'll get to. It'd be interesting to see how forts work if certain jobs can only be done in a tragically shoddy fashion if relevant knowledge is not possessed by any current citizens. It's the sort of thing that can be reverse-engineered into invention/knowledge advancement as well, though we have to be careful about that.
No - DF still distributes SDL 1.2.13. SDL 1.2.15 works, as far as I know, but upgrading to SDL 2 could be a challenge.
Have you updated to SDL2?
No - DF still distributes SDL 1.2.13. SDL 1.2.15 works, as far as I know, but upgrading to SDL 2 could be a challenge.
Have you updated to SDL2?
No - DF still distributes SDL 1.2.13. SDL 1.2.15 works, as far as I know, but upgrading to SDL 2 could be a challenge.
Have you updated to SDL2?
Wouldnt SDL2 hardware acceleration solve everyones FPS issues?
No - DF still distributes SDL 1.2.13. SDL 1.2.15 works, as far as I know, but upgrading to SDL 2 could be a challenge.
Have you updated to SDL2?
Wouldnt SDL2 hardware acceleration solve everyones FPS issues?
They have nothing in common.
No - DF still distributes SDL 1.2.13. SDL 1.2.15 works, as far as I know, but upgrading to SDL 2 could be a challenge.
Have you updated to SDL2?
Wouldnt SDL2 hardware acceleration solve everyones FPS issues?
They have nothing in common.
So blitting 800 tiles with software has no performance effect?
No - DF still distributes SDL 1.2.13. SDL 1.2.15 works, as far as I know, but upgrading to SDL 2 could be a challenge.
Have you updated to SDL2?
Wouldnt SDL2 hardware acceleration solve everyones FPS issues?
They have nothing in common.
So blitting 800 tiles with software has no performance effect?
It's not done in software unless you have set PRINT_MODE to 2D. SDL 2 is just an another SDL version, they're all using OpenGL, no difference here.
But even in "2D" mode no, it has no performance effect because rendering is running on one core and world simulation on another.
Will we ever be able to enslave captured invaders/innocent elves, chain them up and make them do easy jobs?(e.g. Farming)
Dwarves consider slavery a capital offense; being a known slaver means you are executed.
As a person who's delved into the inner workings of DF, including overriding the drawing, yes, it very much does use opengl.
A better question would be weather there's plans to upgrade the compiler and go for 64bit.
No - DF still distributes SDL 1.2.13. SDL 1.2.15 works, as far as I know, but upgrading to SDL 2 could be a challenge.
Have you updated to SDL2?
Wouldnt SDL2 hardware acceleration solve everyones FPS issues?
They have nothing in common.
So blitting 800 tiles with software has no performance effect?
It's not done in software unless you have set PRINT_MODE to 2D. SDL 2 is just an another SDL version, they're all using OpenGL, no difference here.
But even in "2D" mode no, it has no performance effect because rendering is running on one core and world simulation on another.
mmmm, I dont think so.
Not to mention that DF usually only renders changed tiles (rendering of all tiles is usually only done when switching screens or resizing/zooming the window).So blitting 800 tiles with software has no performance effect?
It's not done in software unless you have set PRINT_MODE to 2D. SDL 2 is just an another SDL version, they're all using OpenGL, no difference here.
But even in "2D" mode no, it has no performance effect because rendering is running on one core and world simulation on another.
BOX or DO_MEGA: the announcment will appear in a box and pause the game
P or PAUSE: the announcement will cause the game to pause
R or RECENTER: the announcement will cause the game to recenter (if possible)
A_D or A_DISPLAY: the announcement will be displayed in the main adventure announcement log (and on screen)
D_D or D_DISPLAY: the announcement will be displayed in the main dwarf announcement log (and at the bottom)
UCR or UNIT_COMBAT_REPORT: the announcement will be associated to the unit combat/hunting/sparring reports
UCR_A or UNIT_COMBAT_REPORT_ALL_ACTIVE: the announcement will be associated to any active unit combat/hunting/sparring reports, but if there are no reports it will not create one
[REACHED_PEAK:A_D:D_D:BOX]
[ERA_CHANGE:A_D:D_D:BOX]
[ENDGAME_EVENT_1:A_D:D_D:BOX:P:R]
[ENDGAME_EVENT_2:A_D:D_D:BOX:P:R]
[FEATURE_DISCOVERY:A_D:D_D:BOX:P:R]
[STRUCK_DEEP_METAL:A_D:D_D:BOX:P:R]
[STRUCK_MINERAL:A_D:D_D]
[STRUCK_ECONOMIC_MINERAL:A_D:D_D]
[COMBAT_TWIST_WEAPON:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_LET_ITEM_DROP:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_START_CHARGE:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_SURPRISE_CHARGE:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_JUMP_DODGE_PROJ:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_JUMP_DODGE_STRIKE:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_DODGE:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_COUNTERSTRIKE:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_BLOCK:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_PARRY:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_CHARGE_COLLISION:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_CHARGE_DEFENDER_TUMBLES:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_CHARGE_DEFENDER_KNOCKED_OVER:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_CHARGE_ATTACKER_TUMBLES:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_CHARGE_ATTACKER_BOUNCE_BACK:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_CHARGE_TANGLE_TOGETHER:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_CHARGE_TANGLE_TUMBLE:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_CHARGE_RUSH_BY:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_CHARGE_MANAGE_STOP:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_CHARGE_OBSTACLE_SLAM:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_WRESTLE_LOCK:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_WRESTLE_CHOKEHOLD:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_WRESTLE_TAKEDOWN:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_WRESTLE_THROW:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_WRESTLE_RELEASE_LOCK:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_WRESTLE_RELEASE_CHOKE:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_WRESTLE_RELEASE_GRIP:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_WRESTLE_STRUGGLE:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_WRESTLE_RELEASE_LATCH:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_WRESTLE_STRANGLE_KO:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_WRESTLE_ADJUST_GRIP:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_GRAB_TEAR:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_STRIKE_DETAILS:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_STRIKE_DETAILS_2:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_EVENT_ENRAGED:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_EVENT_STUCKIN:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_EVENT_LATCH_BP:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_EVENT_LATCH_GENERAL:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_EVENT_PROPELLED_AWAY:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_EVENT_KNOCKED_OUT:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_EVENT_STUNNED:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_EVENT_WINDED:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_EVENT_NAUSEATED:A_D:UCR]
[MIGRANT_ARRIVAL_NAMED:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[MIGRANT_ARRIVAL:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[DIG_CANCEL_WARM:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[DIG_CANCEL_DAMP:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[AMBUSH_DEFENDER:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[AMBUSH_RESIDENT:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[AMBUSH_THIEF:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[AMBUSH_THIEF_SUPPORT_SKULKING:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[AMBUSH_THIEF_SUPPORT_NATURE:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[AMBUSH_THIEF_SUPPORT:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[AMBUSH_MISCHIEVOUS:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[AMBUSH_SNATCHER:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[AMBUSH_SNATCHER_SUPPORT:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[AMBUSH_AMBUSHER_NATURE:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[AMBUSH_AMBUSHER:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[AMBUSH_INJURED:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[AMBUSH_OTHER:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[AMBUSH_INCAPACITATED:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[CARAVAN_ARRIVAL:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[NOBLE_ARRIVAL:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[D_MIGRANTS_ARRIVAL:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[D_MIGRANT_ARRIVAL:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[D_MIGRANT_ARRIVAL_DISCOURAGED:A_D:D_D]
[D_NO_MIGRANT_ARRIVAL:A_D:D_D]
[ANIMAL_TRAP_CATCH:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[ANIMAL_TRAP_ROBBED:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[MISCHIEF_LEVER:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[MISCHIEF_PLATE:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[MISCHIEF_CAGE:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[MISCHIEF_CHAIN:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[DIPLOMAT_ARRIVAL:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[LIAISON_ARRIVAL:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[TRADE_DIPLOMAT_ARRIVAL:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[CAVE_COLLAPSE:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[BIRTH_CITIZEN:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[BIRTH_ANIMAL:A_D:D_D]
[BIRTH_WILD_ANIMAL:A_D:D_D]
[STRANGE_MOOD:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[MADE_ARTIFACT:A_D:D_D:BOX:P:R]
[NAMED_ARTIFACT:A_D:D_D:BOX:P:R]
[ITEM_ATTACHMENT:A_D:D_D]
[VERMIN_CAGE_ESCAPE:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[TRIGGER_WEB:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[MOOD_BUILDING_CLAIMED:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[ARTIFACT_BEGUN:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[MEGABEAST_ARRIVAL:A_D:D_D:BOX:P:R]
[BERSERK_CITIZEN:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[MAGMA_DEFACES_ENGRAVING:A_D:D_D]
[ENGRAVING_MELTS:A_D:D_D]
[MASTERPIECE_ARCHITECTURE:A_D:D_D]
[MASTERPIECE_CONSTRUCTION:A_D:D_D]
[MASTER_ARCHITECTURE_LOST:A_D:D_D]
[MASTER_CONSTRUCTION_LOST:A_D:D_D]
[ADV_AWAKEN:A_D:D_D]
[ADV_SLEEP_INTERRUPTED:A_D:D_D]
[ADV_REACTION_PRODUCTS:A_D:D_D]
[CANCEL_JOB:A_D:D_D]
[ADV_CREATURE_DEATH:A_D:D_D:UCR_A]
[CITIZEN_DEATH:A_D:D_D:UCR_A]
[PET_DEATH:A_D:D_D:UCR_A]
[FALL_OVER:A_D:UCR_A]
[CAUGHT_IN_FLAMES:A_D:UCR_A]
[CAUGHT_IN_WEB:A_D:UCR_A]
[UNIT_PROJECTILE_SLAM_BLOW_APART:A_D:UCR_A]
[UNIT_PROJECTILE_SLAM:A_D:UCR_A]
[UNIT_PROJECTILE_SLAM_INTO_UNIT:A_D:UCR_A]
[VOMIT:A_D:UCR_A]
[LOSE_HOLD_OF_ITEM:A_D:UCR_A]
[REGAIN_CONSCIOUSNESS:A_D:UCR_A]
[FREE_FROM_WEB:A_D:UCR_A]
[PARALYZED:A_D:UCR_A]
[OVERCOME_PARALYSIS:A_D:UCR_A]
[NOT_STUNNED:A_D:UCR_A]
[EXHAUSTION:A_D:UCR_A]
[PAIN_KO:A_D:UCR_A]
[BREAK_GRIP:A_D:UCR_A]
[NO_BREAK_GRIP:A_D:UCR_A]
[BLOCK_FIRE:A_D:UCR_A]
[BREATHE_FIRE:A_D:UCR_A]
[SHOOT_WEB:A_D:UCR_A]
[PULL_OUT_DROP:A_D:UCR_A]
[STAND_UP:A_D:UCR_A]
[MARTIAL_TRANCE:A_D:D_D]
[MAT_BREATH:A_D:UCR_A]
[NIGHT_ATTACK_STARTS:A_D:D_D:BOX]
[NIGHT_ATTACK_ENDS:A_D:D_D:BOX]
[NIGHT_ATTACK_TRAVEL:A_D:D_D]
[GHOST_ATTACK:A_D:D_D:UCR_A]
[TRAVEL_SITE_DISCOVERY:A_D:D_D:BOX]
[TRAVEL_SITE_BUMP:A_D:D_D]
[ADVENTURE_INTRO:BOX]
[CREATURE_SOUND:A_D]
[MECHANISM_SOUND:A_D]
[CREATURE_STEALS_OBJECT:A_D:D_D]
[FOUND_TRAP:A_D:D_D]
[BODY_TRANSFORMATION:A_D:D_D]
[INTERACTION_ACTOR:A_D:UCR]
[INTERACTION_TARGET:A_D:UCR]
[UNDEAD_ATTACK:A_D:D_D:BOX:P:R]
[CITIZEN_MISSING:A_D:D_D:UCR_A]
[PET_MISSING:A_D:D_D:UCR_A]
[STRANGE_RAIN_SNOW:A_D:D_D]
[STRANGE_CLOUD:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[SIMPLE_ANIMAL_ACTION:A_D]
[FLOUNDER_IN_LIQUID:A_D]
[TRAINING_DOWN_TO_SEMI_WILD:A_D:D_D]
[TRAINING_FULL_REVERSION:A_D:D_D:P:R]
[ANIMAL_TRAINING_KNOWLEDGE:A_D:D_D]
[SKIP_ON_LIQUID:A_D:UCR_A]
[DODGE_FLYING_OBJECT:A_D:UCR_A]
[REGULAR_CONVERSATION:A_D]
[CONFLICT_CONVERSATION:A_D:UCR_A]
[FLAME_HIT:A_D:UCR]
[EMBRACE:A_D]
[BANDIT_EMPTY_CONTAINER:A_D]
[BANDIT_GRAB_ITEM:A_D]
[COMBAT_EVENT_ATTACK_INTERRUPTED:A_D:UCR]
[COMBAT_WRESTLE_CATCH_ATTACK:A_D:UCR]
[FAIL_TO_GRAB_SURFACE:A_D:UCR_A]
[LOSE_HOLD_OF_SURFACE:A_D:UCR_A]
[TRAVEL_COMPLAINT:A_D:D_D:BOX]
[LOSE_EMOTION:A_D:UCR_A]
[REORGANIZE_POSSESSIONS:A_D]
[PUSH_ITEM:A_D:UCR_A]
[DRAW_ITEM:A_D]
[STRAP_ITEM:A_D]
[GAIN_SITE_CONTROL:A_D:D_D:BOX]
[FORT_POSITION_SUCCESSION:A_D:D_D:BOX:P:R]
[STRESSED_CITIZEN:A_D:D_D]
[CITIZEN_LOST_TO_STRESS:A_D:D_D]
[CITIZEN_TANTRUM:A_D:D_D]
[MOVED_OUT_OF_RANGE:A_D:D_D]
[CANNOT_JUMP:A_D:D_D]
[NO_TRACKS:A_D:D_D]
[ALREADY_SEARCHED_AREA:A_D:D_D]
[SEARCH_FOUND_SOMETHING:A_D:D_D]
[SEARCH_FOUND_NOTHING:A_D:D_D]
[NOTHING_TO_INTERACT:A_D:D_D]
[NOTHING_TO_EXAMINE:A_D:D_D]
[YOU_YIELDED:A_D:D_D]
[YOU_UNYIELDED:A_D:D_D]
[YOU_STRAP_ITEM:A_D:D_D]
[YOU_DRAW_ITEM:A_D:D_D]
[NO_GRASP_TO_DRAW_ITEM:A_D:D_D]
[NO_ITEM_TO_STRAP:A_D:D_D]
[NO_INV_TO_REMOVE:A_D:D_D]
[NO_INV_TO_WEAR:A_D:D_D]
[NO_INV_TO_EAT:A_D:D_D]
[NO_INV_TO_CONTAIN:A_D:D_D]
[NO_INV_TO_DROP:A_D:D_D]
[NOTHING_TO_PICK_UP:A_D:D_D]
[NO_INV_TO_THROW:A_D:D_D]
[NO_INV_TO_FIRE:A_D:D_D]
[CURRENT_SMELL:A_D:D_D]
[CURRENT_WEATHER:A_D:D_D]
[CURRENT_TEMPERATURE:A_D:D_D]
[CURRENT_DATE:A_D:D_D]
[NO_GRASP_FOR_PICKUP:A_D:D_D]
[TRAVEL_ADVISORY:A_D:D_D]
[CANNOT_CLIMB:A_D:D_D]
[CANNOT_STAND:A_D:D_D]
[MUST_UNRETRACT_FIRST:A_D:D_D]
[CANNOT_REST:A_D:D_D]
[CANNOT_MAKE_CAMPFIRE:A_D:D_D]
[MADE_CAMPFIRE:A_D:D_D]
[CANNOT_SET_FIRE:A_D:D_D]
[SET_FIRE:A_D:D_D]
[DAWN_BREAKS:A_D:D_D]
[NOON:A_D:D_D]
[NIGHTFALL:A_D:D_D]
[NO_INV_INTERACTION:A_D:D_D]
[EMPTY_CONTAINER:A_D:D_D]
[TAKE_OUT_OF_CONTAINER:A_D:D_D]
[NO_CONTAINER_FOR_ITEM:A_D:D_D]
[PUT_INTO_CONTAINER:A_D:D_D]
[EAT_ITEM:A_D:D_D]
[DRINK_ITEM:A_D:D_D]
[CONSUME_FAILURE:A_D:D_D]
[DROP_ITEM:A_D:D_D]
[PICK_UP_ITEM:A_D:D_D]
[YOU_BUILDING_INTERACTION:A_D:D_D]
[YOU_ITEM_INTERACTION:A_D:D_D]
[YOU_TEMPERATURE_EFFECTS:A_D:D_D]
[RESOLVE_SHARED_ITEMS:A_D:D_D]
[COUGH_BLOOD:A_D:D_D]
[VOMIT_BLOOD:A_D:D_D]
[POWER_LEARNED:A_D:D_D]
[YOU_FEED_ON_SUCKEE:A_D:D_D]
[PROFESSION_CHANGES:A_D:D_D]
[RECRUIT_PROMOTED:A_D:D_D]
[SOLDIER_BECOMES_MASTER:A_D:D_D]
[MERCHANTS_UNLOADING:A_D:D_D]
[MERCHANTS_NEED_DEPOT:A_D:D_D]
[MERCHANT_WAGONS_BYPASSED:A_D:D_D]
[MERCHANTS_LEAVING_SOON:A_D:D_D]
[MERCHANTS_EMBARKED:A_D:D_D]
[PET_LOSES_DEAD_OWNER:A_D:D_D]
[PET_ADOPTS_OWNER:A_D:D_D]
[VERMIN_BITE:A_D:D_D]
[UNABLE_TO_COMPLETE_BUILDING:A_D:D_D]
[JOBS_REMOVED_FROM_UNPOWERED_BUILDING:A_D:D_D]
[CITIZEN_SNATCHED:A_D:D_D]
[VERMIN_DISTURBED:A_D:D_D]
[LAND_GAINS_STATUS:A_D:D_D]
[LAND_ELEVATED_STATUS:A_D:D_D]
[MASTERPIECE_CRAFTED:A_D:D_D]
[ARTWORK_DEFACED:A_D:D_D]
[ANIMAL_TRAINED:A_D:D_D]
[DYED_MASTERPIECE:A_D:D_D]
[COOKED_MASTERPIECE:A_D:D_D]
[MANDATE_ENDS:A_D:D_D]
[SLOWDOWN_ENDS:A_D:D_D]
[FAREWELL_HELPER:A_D:D_D]
[ELECTION_RESULTS:A_D:D_D]
[SITE_PRESENT:A_D:D_D]
[CONSTRUCTION_SUSPENDED:A_D:D_D]
[LINKAGE_SUSPENDED:A_D:D_D]
[QUOTA_FILLED:A_D:D_D]
[JOB_OVERWRITTEN:A_D:D_D]
[NOTHING_TO_CATCH_IN_WATER:A_D:D_D]
[DEMAND_FORGOTTEN:A_D:D_D]
[NEW_DEMAND:A_D:D_D]
[NEW_MANDATE:A_D:D_D]
[PRICES_ALTERED:A_D:D_D]
[NAMED_RESIDENT_CREATURE:A_D:D_D]
[SOMEBODY_GROWS_UP:A_D:D_D]
[GUILD_REQUEST_TAKEN:A_D:D_D]
[GUILD_WAGES_CHANGED:A_D:D_D]
[NEW_WORK_MANDATE:A_D:D_D]
[CITIZEN_BECOMES_SOLDIER:A_D:D_D]
[CITIZEN_BECOMES_NONSOLDIER:A_D:D_D]
[PARTY_ORGANIZED:A_D:D_D]
[POSSESSED_TANTRUM:A_D:D_D]
[BUILDING_TOPPLED_BY_GHOST:A_D:D_D]
[MASTERFUL_IMPROVEMENT:A_D:D_D]
[MASTERPIECE_ENGRAVING:A_D:D_D]
[MARRIAGE:A_D:D_D]
[NO_MARRIAGE_CELEBRATION:A_D:D_D]
[CURIOUS_GUZZLER:A_D:D_D]
[WEATHER_BECOMES_CLEAR:A_D:D_D]
[WEATHER_BECOMES_SNOW:A_D:D_D]
[WEATHER_BECOMES_RAIN:A_D:D_D]
[SEASON_WET:A_D:D_D]
[SEASON_DRY:A_D:D_D]
[SEASON_SPRING:A_D:D_D]
[SEASON_SUMMER:A_D:D_D]
[SEASON_AUTUMN:A_D:D_D]
[SEASON_WINTER:A_D:D_D]
Will we ever be able to enslave captured invaders/innocent elves, chain them up and make them do easy jobs?(e.g. Farming)
Dwarves consider slavery a capital offense; being a known slaver means you are executed.
True, but didn't the ethics recently become less rigid and variable by individual dwarf? You might conceivably engineer a situation where all of your dwarves are sociopathic slavers which would make the interaction valid if you're willing to split off from the rest of your civilization's ethics.
It is the sort of timeline question where I expect the official answer to be "Sounds good, no timeline," but I seem to recall Toady touching on dwarf mode Prisoners of War and the like as part of the Thief arc... in a DF Talk maybe? Dunno.
Will we ever be able to enslave captured invaders/innocent elves, chain them up and make them do easy jobs?(e.g. Farming)
If not, will we at leats be able to sell captured invaders to human caravans?
-Following debate on Dwarven ethics, seemingly concluding that slavery is a big no-no-
I'm still confused, are you guys saying that Dwarf Fortress uses OpenGL, or that SDL uses OpenGL?
(note on "empty announcement #" logs -- I would expect a few of these, since I had to hit a ton of announcements with the recent changes. They are as easy to fix as typos, but collecting the numbers somewhere would be helpful.)
Is having Non-Dwarven members of your Civ move into your fortress something that might happen soon? I feel that as the worlds we gen up become more and more fleshed out and alive, it feels more and more contrived and artificial that player sites are the only ones where races other than than that of the controlling civilization cannot live. The upcoming Tavern Goals mention the ability to hire guests, which feels like it might be only a step or two away from having a handful of Elves and Humans living in your fortress for real....The hiring guests section is having non-dwarves as members of your fortress, and Toady has said so previously in DFTalks, such as #20:
Threetoe: Next question is from Talvieno. He asks 'Will members of other civilizations eventually be able to join your civilization and live among your dwarves?'
Toady: I guess does the person mean other civilizations or other races? You can already have people in your civilization in worldgen that are humans or elves or even goblins that have joined up with the dwarf group and once the code supports it they will be able to move to your fortress. Right now there's just bugs where it treats them like pets sometimes and lots of strange stuff like that. Well, there's many problems. The official plan is to fix all of that up for the tavern and inn arc, when you can keep an inn, because there will be people living at your fortress on a semi-permanent basis.
Threetoe: Yeah, this is one of my favorite suggestions that someone had, to have dwarf mode inns.
Toady: Yeah, that's definitely going to be awesome. It'll be like Diner Dash, you'll be taking care of people trying to multi-task and that will eventually lead to people staying in your fortress longer term because we'll be working out the problems with multi-racial forts at that time and we'll have full integration not long after, I suspect.
You mention that because the economy is not turned on, you will not be focusing on Tavern Revenue. Will there be some watered down system where the guests hand over a fixed amount coins for you to melt/hire other travelers with? Or will the sole reward of running the tavern at this point be flavorful - getting to play the games and meet the visitors?The dev-page specifically mentions setting prices for the tavern releases, so we should get some revenue out of setting up a tavern. I imagine that note is more about that we won't get detailed numbers of what we're selling and how much we get from it, how many guests we had and so on.
Is the 'empty announcement 130' in relation to the sleeping army an intentional one for now because they section is incomplete?
Regarding the 'empty announcement 205', sure I can make a bug report for the empty announcement errors if that's what you mean. Can't supply a save because it's uncommon and unlike the 130 one, theres no consistent place that it happens. I have a suspicion though.
Quote from: smjjamesIs the 'empty announcement 130' in relation to the sleeping army an intentional one for now because they section is incomplete?
Regarding the 'empty announcement 205', sure I can make a bug report for the empty announcement errors if that's what you mean. Can't supply a save because it's uncommon and unlike the 130 one, theres no consistent place that it happens. I have a suspicion though.
These are likely newish bugs related to the announcement rewrite -- just having the number is enough to fix the error. They can be intermittent or otherwise hard to pin down, but that usually all comes from a simple typo around where the announcement is posted and hopefully I can just eyeball them all.
@smeeprocket: Beached whale probably, and the fisherdwarf just happened to get tasked to haul it.
Anyways, a sort of errorlog related query for you guys, I'm noticing that this save I have is generating lots of (20+) 'succession traveller out of bounds' errors while in the calendar screen. I haven't seen it do that before, and I'm thinking of making a bug report. However, that's the only thing to the bug, so I'm not sure if it's worthy of a bug report, then again, it could be indicative of some other problem. This is after my adventurer died, so it's not a fresh new game.
Not to mention that it's rather vague, like a 'theres this odd thing happening', and I have no idea how useful it would be to Toady One. It also happens when starting a new fort.
Edit: I think I'll just keep an eye on the save.
Quote from: Ispil
How much do we have to donate to have you do a guitar piece per season?
It's hard to set aside enough time to feel like I can do a decent job with any of that these days.
Do you think the tavern/inn release is going to end up requiring a full-scale resurrection of fortress economy? We'll be able to set the prices of drinks and rooms, but what use will we have for all the worthless coins(?) we collect from our guests?
Threetoe: So the next question is from Matthew, and he asks, "Is there any chance of seeing a return of the dwarven economy any time soon?"
Toady: The things that we're working on with the start scenarios, as we may have mentioned before, are linked in to adding information about property and laws. That should get us positioned to really put that stuff back in. We had problems with not having the armies moving around made it impossible to do caravans properly. And we didn't really have any good information on who owned what and that kind of thing. So we've been working on it framework-wise all this time, and hopefully, once the start scenarios are complete, we'll be in a good position to make decisions about where we are with that. Whether it's going to be working straight in on trading stuff or continuing to come at it obliquely.
Threetoe: Like the thief arc, say?
Toady: Yeah, that kind of thing.
Toady: So you're going to have the ability in your fortress to lay out several rooms. Rooms for people to sleep, meeting-hall-type places, some storerooms, that make up an inn or tavern, for people to come. They'll come at first just because they can. Your guests will be people like merchants, diplomats, adventurers, mercenaries, other travelers, and your dwarves will also be able to go. And the thing that you'll be able to do there... You'll be able to serve them drinks, for instance, you can sell them... We're not going for... We don't have the economy stuff yet, so we're not going for sort of full tycoon mode with spreadsheets...
Threetoe: Yeah it wouldn't exactly make any financial sense to do this, but it's just for fun.
Toady: Yeah, and it'll make more sense later, based on start scenarios and later when we do the economic work. Right now, we're just messing around. One of the big things that'll come out of this is... Remember back... When was that meetup? Was it like 2007/8?
but what use will we have for all the worthless coins(?) we collect from our guests?
Hire mercenaries, perhaps?
will it be possible to create a civ or town/fortress with a adventurer in the future? say urist mc human gets a band of people and go's out far into the wilderness and him and his band of followers make a small hamlet that becomes a large town that is the capital of the new human civ with urist mc human as king
also when will kings and queens children become the king/queen and not a random dwarf/human/elf?
problem with legends is so much to sift through and not being able to use in while playing.
problem with legends is so much to sift through and not being able to use in while playing.
You can do either 2 things:
1. Familiarize yourself with Legends Mode, use filtering and stick to writing stuff down, studying your preferred civ's history and that of your neighbors. Right now (40.19) it's advisable to spawn tiny worlds, and as you play more and more with that world, you begin to relate with names and regions, however random they might appear at first. In these primary stages of development, a lot of DF systems harken back to a pen-and-paper era, and that (in my opinion) creates a special bond with that world.
2. Wait for Legends Viewer (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=72702.0) to get updated.
I suspect that the 'I'm on an important mission' is a placeholder. Sure there will be a couple times when they don't want to tell you, but it's used way too often IMO.Getting software to explain why it is doing something is a surprisingly difficult problem in AI. When an NPC is engaged in a subtask, it may not be aware of its overall goal until it pops the subtask off of the stack.
will it be possible to create a civ or town/fortress with a adventurer in the future? say urist mc human gets a band of people and go's out far into the wilderness and him and his band of followers make a small hamlet that becomes a large town that is the capital of the new human civ with urist mc human as king
Basic Adventure Mode Skills
Some survival skills
Ability to butcher corpses with an appropriate tool
Ability to make clothing and some other objects from hides
Ability to obtain a sharp (or at least non-smooth) edge on a rock
Extend adv mode starvation/dehydration times to appropriate number of days
Wood use
Ground debris/sticks/underbrush
Ability to chop down tree using appropriate tool
Ability to make simple wooden weapons and ammunition
Ability to use logs to make constructions
Site recognition for saving adventurer-made sites (will require entity pops first, see below)
Ability to name site
Digging and stone constructions
Ability to dig out soil tiles
Buried boulders in some soils
Ability to pull up surface boulders
Ability to make rough stone constructions
[...]
Entity populations
Track larger entity populations during world generation
Update site storage to account for a variety of sprawl
Growing crops
Ability to till tile (faster with tool)
Ability to plant seeds
Ability to pass time quickly (unlike current sleep command)
Ability to harvest plants
Ability to make a quern from a boulder
Ability to grind grindable plants (designating any proper container for products)
Ability to cook and appropriate tools for this
Raising livestock
Farms associated to entity population sprawl
Ability to buy a livestock animal and lead it around
Keep track of your animals as with hunted animals so they are not easily and permanently lost
Ability to build fences (more than one fence tile per tree used, as opposed to wall)
Ability to perform decisive attacks on unsuspecting or heavily injured opponent (a cow being slaughtered, for instance)
Tracking livestock breeding/pregnancy information
Grazing and drinking for livestock
Eggs, chickens and associated objects
We'll be able to set the prices of drinks and rooms, but what use will we have for all the worthless coins(?) we collect from our guests?
Just watching dwarves make poor decisions repeatedly as I fix their little minds...
it's 3 already? I should eat... wait, ...
Just watching dwarves make poor decisions repeatedly as I fix their little minds...
You should post some of the funny stuff that you see. :)
Oh great Toady, binarysmith of wonders! I must ask How hard would it be, or do you think it would be, and/or when do you see (if at all) implementing a better control over stocks in the game trough the manager. That's it, not only making orders but also managing that certain things are always in stock.
Standing Production Orders
Production triggers for new work orders
Being able to link work orders and triggers to buildings
Yeah, adding a gearbox between jobs and dwarves allows all kinds of cool stuff to happen, but it'll have potential to just shoot gears all over the place, especially at first, and sporadically forevermore.
In the meantime, there's a DFHack utility that lets you keep a minimum of X amount of items y in your fortress, and people will make more once the amount goes below that number.
Oh great Toady, binarysmith of wonders! I must ask How hard would it be, or do you think it would be, and/or when do you see (if at all) implementing a better control over stocks in the game trough the manager. That's it, not only making orders but also managing that certain things are always in stock.
Do dwarves (in Fortress mode) ever change their gait?
12/06/2014Toady One It's all proceeding along. There are lots of special cases that were optimized in this way or that way over the years that I don't want to make any worse in the new system. When I got to rescheduling mining designations, I figured I wouldn't burn time on an additional rewrite, so I'm going to go ahead with the numeric digging prioritization system as well. There'll probably be 7 levels and a marker designation to start.
will this make dwarfs stop mineing pits in such a way they fall in and die? I have never even made an effective pit trap thanks to this little quirk,
I though each designated tile was basically its own job. That way a team of three miners can efficiently mine out half of five different rooms then go on break in unison.12/06/2014Toady One It's all proceeding along. There are lots of special cases that were optimized in this way or that way over the years that I don't want to make any worse in the new system. When I got to rescheduling mining designations, I figured I wouldn't burn time on an additional rewrite, so I'm going to go ahead with the numeric digging prioritization system as well. There'll probably be 7 levels and a marker designation to start.
will this make dwarfs stop mineing pits in such a way they fall in and die? I have never even made an effective pit trap thanks to this little quirk,
That has nothing to do with job priorities though. Might help somewhat.
That combined with agility increase of vampires makes them almost impossible to catch without abusing stealth.Do dwarves (in Fortress mode) ever change their gait?
Yes. Whenever they flee, they run or sprint. You can tell because they start moving faster than normal.
I though each designated tile was basically its own job. That way a team of three miners can efficiently mine out half of five different rooms then go on break in unison.12/06/2014Toady One It's all proceeding along. There are lots of special cases that were optimized in this way or that way over the years that I don't want to make any worse in the new system. When I got to rescheduling mining designations, I figured I wouldn't burn time on an additional rewrite, so I'm going to go ahead with the numeric digging prioritization system as well. There'll probably be 7 levels and a marker designation to start.
will this make dwarfs stop mineing pits in such a way they fall in and die? I have never even made an effective pit trap thanks to this little quirk,
That has nothing to do with job priorities though. Might help somewhat.
We'll just have to see what effect the job priority rewrite has on this. The problem is not that they channel next to each other, it's that they'll stand on a tile that's in the proccess of being channeled.Basically this
It has just been stuff like... why isn't he mining... why isn't he mining... oh there he goes... why did he leave those two squares? I have no idea (5 tests and changes later)... didn't leave any this time... try one more time... left two squares... oh I think I have it... now he isn't mining again... why did you mine there instead of there? Oh < is not >... okay it looks like it works now... but the marker designation looks bad... there now it is better... it's 3 already? I should eat... wait, where did that designation go? it disappeared... I have to fix that first... okay it works now... let me try to toggle the markers... why don't they mine... he isn't mining... oh, whoops... okay... he mined half... why did he mine half? oh it was the hauling jobs clearing wrong... okay he mined out the rooms... now let's see if smoothing works...
I have had so many days like this. If you've ever tried to program your own game or application you eventually come across this problem that's so aggravating that you forget to eat and completely lose track of time.It's not just programing. I've had this happen when drawing, when doing physics tests, when doing chemistry puzzles, etc. All the arts and sciences, if they present something challenging/frustrating enough, can cause you to lose time. Er... lose track of time. Even READING can do it.
I have had so many days like this. If you've ever tried to program your own game or application you eventually come across this problem that's so aggravating that you forget to eat and completely lose track of time.
I though each designated tile was basically its own job. That way a team of three miners can efficiently mine out half of five different rooms then go on break in unison.12/06/2014Toady One It's all proceeding along. There are lots of special cases that were optimized in this way or that way over the years that I don't want to make any worse in the new system. When I got to rescheduling mining designations, I figured I wouldn't burn time on an additional rewrite, so I'm going to go ahead with the numeric digging prioritization system as well. There'll probably be 7 levels and a marker designation to start.That has nothing to do with job priorities though. Might help somewhat.
will this make dwarfs stop mineing pits in such a way they fall in and die? I have never even made an effective pit trap thanks to this little quirk,
Um, the next version with the job priorities will be save compatible with 40.19, right?I don't see why it wouldn't be. Right now, it seems to me that you'd just need to convert designations into priority 1 designations for compatibility, populate whatever mechanism holds the "help wanted ads" with the unassigned jobs, and let already assigned jobs run their course. I think save breaking stuff will happen in the three other sections, but job priorities will likely be fine.
I'm surprised that vein mining is getting implemented before multi-Z-level deposits -- seems like it'll necessitate a rewrite.
I'm surprised that vein mining is getting implemented before multi-Z-level deposits -- seems like it'll necessitate a rewrite.
I'm surprised that vein mining is getting implemented before multi-Z-level deposits -- seems like it'll necessitate a rewrite.
Actually, it could just be something like the DFhack designation tool where you can designate a whole vein for mining. Granted it designates the WHOLE thing, even parts you don't see. So, it could just be a designation that says 'mine out this vein'.
If anything, the only rewrite would have to do with the pathing and digging out accross z levels.
Why is there a 2x2 minimum embark size limit?
I know I heard mention of this before in DFTalk or one of these threads, but searching has failed me.
It could also be as simple as "dig out this tile and designate any adjacent tiles of the same material with this same include-adjacent style of designation."I'm surprised that vein mining is getting implemented before multi-Z-level deposits -- seems like it'll necessitate a rewrite.
Actually, it could just be something like the DFhack designation tool where you can designate a whole vein for mining. Granted it designates the WHOLE thing, even parts you don't see. So, it could just be a designation that says 'mine out this vein'.
If anything, the only rewrite would have to do with the pathing and digging out accross z levels.
It could also be as simple as "dig out this tile and designate any adjacent tiles of the same material with this same include-adjacent style of designation."I'm surprised that vein mining is getting implemented before multi-Z-level deposits -- seems like it'll necessitate a rewrite.
Actually, it could just be something like the DFhack designation tool where you can designate a whole vein for mining. Granted it designates the WHOLE thing, even parts you don't see. So, it could just be a designation that says 'mine out this vein'.
If anything, the only rewrite would have to do with the pathing and digging out accross z levels.
Just be careful with layer stones!
This is also a suggestion.Will you add Hemp/Cannabis as a crop from which you can make cloth and oil (which you also can in real life (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemp)) in patch 4.20?
Nevermind, hemp is already in the game, sorry for my ignorance D;
How does the new system treat military dwarves?
For example at the moment I have 2 haulers in a military squad who are not set to train & yet they simply ignore all hauling jobs in favour of indivual combat drill/resting.
So right now I'm seeing that Inn's are probably going to be implemented pretty soon , did Toady say if he would implement / work on :
*Creatures singing at the Inns or at other social events?
*Creatures getting overly drunk and behaving like drunk people do?
Anyone know what the status on invaders use of siege engines is? Catapults and other wall breaking monstrosities?
Guess what bugs have been fixed (or at least checked off) for the next release? :D
Haulers carry (heavy) full bin to pickup single item (lighter) (Toady One) - resolved. (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5964)
and
Conflict between hauling jobs (i.e. filling containers) and other jobs using items in those containers (Toady One) - resolved. (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5992)
Sounds like he found a way to fix some of the inefficiencies with the current hauling system.
Also, http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.htmlSo right now I'm seeing that Inn's are probably going to be implemented pretty soon , did Toady say if he would implement / work on :
*Creatures singing at the Inns or at other social events?
*Creatures getting overly drunk and behaving like drunk people do?
Anyone know what the status on invaders use of siege engines is? Catapults and other wall breaking monstrosities?
http://www.bay12games.com/media/df_talk_22_transcript.html
But I just generated a 1050 year world...
Wallbuilding (and roadmaking) uses a seperate, skill-less labor in the next update! Now I won't need eighty masons running around!
hauling overhaul
Will wall/road building jobs ever go back to having skills associatted with them (that actually influence in the quality/ speed of the job)? I mean, it does make sense to have your guys need some skill in masonry if they want to build a stone wall... it's not exactly unskilled labor like hauling.
Toady, are building jobs like walls and floors now decoupled from the workshop jobs that used the same materials? Like, will I still need to have my manager restrict the masonry workshops so that all my wall-building grunts don't also build my chairs and tables, or is that gone?
like the bug were if you give a miner in the military a pick he will go put his up and fight with his fist or get another that you did not assign.....PLEASE FIX THAT! we need to have multipurpose miners without the hassle
so does anyone know what's next, after 0.40.20 ? Curious.
Also there are a few military issues that need to be solved. Lack of sieges maybe, kill/move orders not working certainly. It's making fort mode unfairly and excessively FUN.
1) It crashed after about a minute, only thing I had done is initiate an auto-mine and then watch that happen. Guess I'll need to experiment a bit to see if it is reproducible.
Well, in real life a hell of a lot of towns started as/from military outpost, and if western movies are to be believed, from taverns too.The economy will, at least most likely, not return yet:
As for the taverns and the "set prices", does that means economy will be coming back? At least partially? And this opens up a lot of interesting options. Hiring visitors could mean you could privatize your military (mercenaries) or even industries (you hire lumberjacks, or miners, or crafters)?
Without more economic activity, dealing with fortress mode tavern revenue and the supply of adventure mode taverns isn't the focus at this point.
Threetoe: So the next question is from Matthew, and he asks, "Is there any chance of seeing a return of the dwarven economy any time soon?"
Toady: The things that we're working on with the start scenarios, as we may have mentioned before, are linked in to adding information about property and laws. That should get us positioned to really put that stuff back in. We had problems with not having the armies moving around made it impossible to do caravans properly. And we didn't really have any good information on who owned what and that kind of thing. So we've been working on it framework-wise all this time, and hopefully, once the start scenarios are complete, we'll be in a good position to make decisions about where we are with that. Whether it's going to be working straight in on trading stuff or continuing to come at it obliquely.
At the risk of causing arguments and flaming, with the hope that I can just ask the question and that will not happen...Suggestions belong in the suggestions forum, but that said I'd really like to have control over whether a genderless caste is known as "he" or "she" or "it" or "they".
You should be able to name the castes already? Unless I'm missing what you mean by being able to designate a pronoun.
Dirst explained it though, so it's ok smeeprocket.
You should be able to name the castes already? Unless I'm missing what you mean by being able to designate a pronoun.
edit: tbh I'm kind of scared to start a new suggestion topic on its own.
I just wanted to add a quick note that having control over pronouns would be really nice.
He does look at the suggestion forum on a regular basis. Now go make your suggestions thread of the exact post you posted here.
That's the plan (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=100851.msg5470695#msg5470695), at least.He does look at the suggestion forum on a regular basis. Now go make your suggestions thread of the exact post you posted here.
I know there was a big gap where he didn't and then recently he caught up, but I didn't know he was following regularly again.
Now that you've caught up with the suggestions forum do you mean to read it more regularly again?
Quote from: VatticDo you plan to try and keep up with the suggestions board now you've cleared the backlog?Yeah, it would be a shame to fall back again. It's on my daily checklist, anyway.
I heard there was a job available to a fool. See above for my resume.
7. A complex question here. We currently have magical power in the form of learning the secrets of life and death, thus gaining immortality and the power to raise zombies. Are we eventually going to get more forms of magic, and would it be possible to have an entity position dedicated to the research and acquisition of magical power, and the education of those who have it?
Adding to that, do you have any plans as to make driftwood usable?
You should be able to name the castes already? Unless I'm missing what you mean by being able to designate a pronoun.
edit: tbh I'm kind of scared to start a new suggestion topic on its own.
I just wanted to add a quick note that having control over pronouns would be really nice.
Take it to the suggestions forum. If we let you add quick notes that aren't related to current development, which caste pronouns aren't, then before long this thread will be full of quick notes, and then full on suggestions. Toady typically doesn't even answer sugquestions anyway. He does look at the suggestion forum on a regular basis. Now go make your suggestions thread of the exact post you posted here.
Let's see... there was a farming bug, where having multiple farmers on the same field caused issues. I also stopped the dwarves from deciding it's a good idea to channel their own square.
I also stopped the dwarves from deciding it's a good idea to channel their own square.Wait what? 85% of the fun on DF came from that behavior! Then have a good day sir! I won't play anymore! :P
Quote from: 12/23/2014 Toady One devlogI also stopped the dwarves from deciding it's a good idea to channel their own square.Wait what? 85% of the fun on DF came from that behavior! Then have a good day sir! I won't play anymore! :P
Keep the good work Toady!
Sometimes you will credit fixes to others, Quietust comes to mind. Do these other people have access to the code, or do they suggest bug fixes by examining the kind of memory items that dfhack and other programs access?
Thanks Toady! This new dev plan has me really pumped!
Most of the time, when a bugfix is credited to me, it's because I took the time to disassemble and analyze parts of the game's code (generally the specific parts that were known to be broken), figure out why it wasn't working, and produce a binary patch to make it work correctly.Sometimes you will credit fixes to others, Quietust comes to mind. Do these other people have access to the code, or do they suggest bug fixes by examining the kind of memory items that dfhack and other programs access?
Thanks Toady! This new dev plan has me really pumped!
While those guys are knowledgeable in coding, they don't have access to the code in the way you think. The fixes are largely from binaries in DFhack that fix some bugs (the '90% of fort mode creatures don't grow to adult size' bug for example).
.text:00474940 mov esi, offset _ui
.text:00474945 call sub_455CE0
.text:0047494A test al, al
.text:0047494C jz short loc_474962
.text:0047494E cmp bl, 3
.text:00474951 jge short loc_47495A
.text:00474953 cmp [esp+ebp+14h+var_4+1], 0
.text:00474958 jnz short loc_474962
->
.text:00474940 mov esi, offset _ui
.text:00474945 call sub_455CE0
.text:0047494A test al, al
.text:0047494C jz short loc_474962
.text:0047494E inc ebp
.text:0047494F and ebp, 3
.text:00474952 nop
.text:00474953 cmp [esp+ebp+14h+var_4], 0
.text:00474958 jnz short loc_474962
Sometimes you will credit fixes to others, Quietust comes to mind. Do these other people have access to the code, or do they suggest bug fixes by examining the kind of memory items that dfhack and other programs access?
Thanks Toady! This new dev plan has me really pumped!
While those guys are knowledgeable in coding, they don't have access to the code in the way you think. The fixes are largely from binaries in DFhack that fix some bugs (the '90% of fort mode creatures don't grow to adult size' bug for example).
...
Do you envision a task system where more than one Dwarf can be assigned to work together on the same job?
What curly bracket style do you use in c++?
Quote from: WeirdsoundYou mention that because the economy is not turned on, you will not be focusing on Tavern Revenue. Will there be some watered down system where the guests hand over a fixed amount coins for you to melt/hire other travelers with? Or will the sole reward of running the tavern at this point be flavorful - getting to play the games and meet the visitors?Quote from: crapabearDo you think the tavern/inn release is going to end up requiring a full-scale resurrection of fortress economy? We'll be able to set the prices of drinks and rooms, but what use will we have for all the worthless coins(?) we collect from our guests?
Why is there a 2x2 minimum embark size limit?
When adding new features/screens to the game, control wise do you have a scheme you are following that will be consistent with the future rewrite, or are the controls decided upon without an eye to the future because you know the UI rewrite is coming?
What was Scamps code?
How does the new system treat military dwarves?
Will wall/road building jobs ever go back to having skills associatted with them (that actually influence in the quality/ speed of the job)? I mean, it does make sense to have your guys need some skill in masonry if they want to build a stone wall... it's not exactly unskilled labor like hauling.
Actually, considering that even jobs like pump operating have a skill associated with them, will hauling jobs ever get a skill?
I'm curious how dynamic the starting scenarios will be. Will military outposts/taverns still be able to grow in to traditional forts?
With taverns, is there going to be a barista (or bartender) occupation? Then again, the brewer could fill this role easily and I've occasionally seen brewers in the drinking mounds.
As a side question, will the residential areas of goblin sites ever have furniture or will they always be spartan? I imagine that the one and two tile rooms would only have a bed and maybe a chest or cabinet, while larger chambers will have more furniture.
Are designation priority numbers only relative to each other, or do they get taken into account with respect to other sorts of jobs, as well? Like, it's obvious that a miner will dig out a hallway labeled "1" before he goes after one labeled "7"; but will the top-priority hallway take precedence over hauling jobs while the lowest-priority hallway won't, or something like that?
Now that you've caught up with the suggestions forum do you mean to read it more regularly again?
1. So I've noticed at the moment that in a lot of situations, worldgen often creates human societies which are both agglomerations of humans and a large number of members of other species such as animal men, and also tend to be ruled by a long succession of vampires, sometimes not even of human origin. Will human societies tend to stay more human in the future?
2. In relation to the above, are we going to see more granularity in how civilizations treat members of their society that aren't the primary race - second class citizens, pariahs, slaves, or exiling them completely? Will these be options in the raws? (I know we technically have slaves right now, but they have this odd tendency to not stay slaves after a couple of generations)
6. In terms of gods in general, it seems that gods are currently specific to their respective entities. Are we eventually going to see seperate cultures of the same race having overlap in their pantheons? Will we get a raws option to encourage this happening?
7. Are we eventually going to get more forms of magic, and would it be possible to have an entity position dedicated to the research and acquisition of magical power, and the education of those who have it?
Have you made up your mind about what you intend to do with commented out demonic fortresses as yet?
Adding to that, do you have any plans as to make driftwood usable?
And by the way, did you eat lutefisk at Christmas?
Have you checked about dwarves channeling under each other? I swear that this happens sometimes since they'll also deconstruct under each other and also stand on the tile being deconstructed. Though with the dwarves not channeling under themselves anymore, we'll just have to see if they still channel under each other.
It's possible for 2x2 embarks to be smaller than the screen width as well, which doesn't seem to be causing problems. There do seem to be problems with underground wildlife (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=146493.0) on 1x1 maps, however.Quote from: VatticWhy is there a 2x2 minimum embark size limit?
I didn't want to work out whatever problems might have come from having a map smaller than the display width. I'm still not sure what the problems might be, though if the nanofort people haven't had trouble they might not be serious.
It's possible for 2x2 embarks to be smaller than the screen width as well, which doesn't seem to be causing problems. There do seem to be problems with underground wildlife (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=146493.0) on 1x1 maps, however.Quote from: VatticWhy is there a 2x2 minimum embark size limit?
I didn't want to work out whatever problems might have come from having a map smaller than the display width. I'm still not sure what the problems might be, though if the nanofort people haven't had trouble they might not be serious.
Thanks Toady for the answers and your untiring work on this fantastic game.Quote from: DirstDo you envision a task system where more than one Dwarf can be assigned to work together on the same job?
I'm not really sure how things like the apprentice system are going to work, or things like teaching job-related skills. It would be cool to have certain larger scale jobs that can involve several skilled dwarves as well, but I haven't thought about it at all.
Yeah, I know it's no fun, but all of the stuff that is broken I just want fixed before any more new features get added...
Oh, and better animal (and farming in general) automation. Auto-milking, butchering, shearing, spinning, dyeing, weaving, cooking etc. It's really zero fun micromanaging most of these. Just throw a breeding pair/thread/cookorbrew limit on there and work out the kinks.
Eh, I already know it's been requested a bunch of times. My main point was please just don't add a bunch more half broken stuff on top of what's already broken.
The purpose of the thread is to discuss current developments. Specific bugs should be reported on the bug tracker (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/), and specific suggestions belong for the most part in the suggestion forum (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=5.0).
If you have specific questions, I'll try to answer them all, although it is difficult to respond to everything when it is busy. I'll lean toward questions that involve current developments to avoid pulling the entire suggestion forum in here. In the past, we've all found the practice of making questions limegreen works pretty well. You do that like this:Code: [Select][color=limegreen]making questions limegreen[/color]
Quote from: wobblyI'm curious how dynamic the starting scenarios will be. Will military outposts/taverns still be able to grow in to traditional forts?
Yeah, I probably should have been careful with the wording, since the word scenario in games brings some baggage with it. It might be difficult for something like a prison colony's administration to change its remit to something more general, but even if everything starts stacked up in a certain way, we'd like it all to be mutable eventually. Each fort will exist in the same framework, even if the circumstances are different, though since the changes have to be coded, they probably won't all be possible at first.
We're also holding off on "work crew" approaches for similar reasons, and it's quite possible these might arise with guilds and other features when the nature of the fortress is understood through the scenario.
Quote from: Development PageWe're also holding off on "work crew" approaches for similar reasons, and it's quite possible these might arise with guilds and other features when the nature of the fortress is understood through the scenario.
[makes] it sound like the scenario really does determine (via hard-coding at the start) some things about how "the nature of the fortress is understood". It would be cool if that sort of thing was also dynamic, such that the game would understand at some point that you're making a fortress of a certain nature (e.g., a wayside tavern(-fortress)) based on how you're building it, and then perhaps manipulate certain features and behaviors based on that as necessary (and would hopefully not get that wrong too often).
Quote from: smjjamesHave you checked about dwarves channeling under each other? I swear that this happens sometimes since they'll also deconstruct under each other and also stand on the tile being deconstructed. Though with the dwarves not channeling under themselves anymore, we'll just have to see if they still channel under each other.
I haven't looked at this. I didn't remove the check for a dwarf for deconstructions, but it's possible it's broken.
Have you switched to c++11/14? How much did it make a coding easier?Both compilers he uses (MSVC 2010 and GCC 4.5) are from 2010, but both support some C++11 features. I'm not sure exactly which ones he uses, however.
I know this may sound a little odd but is it possible for non-lethal/fighting type grappling to ever become a thing, or even a planned feature?
It sounds strange the way I'm putting it so let me give you some examples.
I've felt like a jerk for a while because my companion got his foot cut off by a gobbo a while back, and he has no family or anyone to leave with, so I just let him crawl and follow me around. I want to be able to throw his arm over me and help him walk, or drag him away from dangerious situations.
That also brings up a few other things, like when a companion decides to take a dip in the river I jumped across, I really wish I could grab their arm and pull them out before they drown, or grab them as they jump for the less athletic ones.
Or even pick up a person and carry them, or just grab someone by the arm, like maybe someone put a bounty on you, or the guards need you to leave, maybe they can drag you out by the upper arm or even throat.
Bloat271, DRAGGING PEOPLE AROUND, (Future): Ability to drag somebody around instead of releasing a wrestling hold when you move.
It would probably work with wrestling, being able to drag your opponent around, but i guess it would also help if your allies jump into a pool of water.You'd be able to drag them out, slowing down there inevitable deaths.
I also fixed a crash that has been happening in unretired forts (generally when the caravan arrived).
How do invaders find their way to a fort now, do they have to path over other sites to get to the fort?
It was happening specifically in unretired forts, which you couldn't do before 0.40.01.
....... I had read that as "non-retired forts", which is why. But the crash-as-the-caravan-rolled-in bug did hit me once and on a succession game actually, so it is probably documented on these forums somewhere.
multi-threadingForget about it. No, seriously. This was done to death already zilion times here. It will NOT be done. You are welcome.
Toady, have you thought when/if you ever going to implement what in most people eye's might seem like two critical improvements to the code, that's it, 64 bits and multi-threading?
Quote from: JapaOn that note, do you have plans of attempting a 64bit build?
Yeah, I did the first attempt on that and it totally failed, since my express MSVC doesn't even support it. If I want to continue using MSVC, I'll have to buy it now I think, or go through some weird process which doesn't work for half of the people. It caused everything to be delayed.
Quote from: MiuramirI was just going to link to Visual Studio Community 2013 myself; it claims to have all the functionality of Visual Studio 2013 Pro, but is free to download and use for individuals and teams of up to 5 developers (plus academic, research, and open-source use). If this doesn't do the job, I'm sure a collection could be arranged to get you the workflow tools you need to move to 64-bit; IMO it's a matter of when, not if.
Money's not the problem. I just need something that works, I didn't have that last time I tried, and I didn't want to risk gumming up progress with new compiler mishaps. I guess once I get this release cleaned up we'll be at the best lull I'm going to find for a while, although I still have no idea how it's going to work.
You didn't used to have to change your computer... if that's true, we'll have to wait a bit longer.
Rainseeker: Here's a technical question; 'Recently in computer architecture the paradigm has shifted to multiple cores. I was wondering if Dwarf Fortress will support multiple threads eventually, and if so what timescale it will occur in.'
Toady: It is my understanding that the SDL stuff is now multicored, with the graphics and the graphics display and so on. Now obviously people, when they're asking about it, that's one important point but people are curious like 'why can't I have seventeen dwarves pathing at once' or 'why can't you take that stupid ass weather simulation and make that go happen on some core, preferably not at all'. It's complicated, and from what I gather it would be a really difficult long project and it's probably not going to happen. That's what I gather. Now there are some things, like these micro multithreading of a smaller process just to get through one loop faster, it can break it up and then come back without it being a case of running path finding at the same time as you're running a fluid simulation, and that stuff, the more I know about that the better, probably, and maybe that's feasible. As for splitting up the path finding and stuff: some people have discussed about how that might work, but as for whether anything is actually going to come of that, I wouldn't bet on it anyway.
I hope the switch-over is as simple as changing a couple flags in the code and re-compiling in the new environment.Sadly, in development, things are rarely this simple.
Two of the starting scenario examples were a prison and a religious center. Are the features necessary for these going to be added, or will new starting scenarios be added later?
Fortress Starting Scenarios
Framework
Expand framework of law, custom, rights, property and status as needed to provide a variety of scenarios
Foundation of laws, both natural and supernatural
Explicit standing of different citizens vs. civilization authorities
Possible expansion of religious and family concepts to provide sufficient scenarios
Starting scenarios
Various possiblities that guide or govern fortress activity: frontier settlement, religious site, prison colony, mining company, military citadel, roadside inn, secondary/future palace of the monarch
Drastic changes to migrants based on starting scenario
Caravans/diplomatic relationships based on starting scenario
Reclaim mechanics should be folded into this
Generalize starting scenario relationships to every site foundation
Hill/deep dwarves
Ability to bring extra dwarves appropriate to the starting scenario
Entity populations surrounding your fortress in appropriate environments, both above and below ground
Ability to move dwarves in and out of surroundings
Relationship with surrounding dwarves
Ability to trade/demand food in depot or similar place with surrounding dwarves
It's so big, it's wearing adamantine and slade spires for jewelry. ;) At least that's what I said in another thread.Two of the starting scenario examples were a prison and a religious center. Are the features necessary for these going to be added, or will new starting scenarios be added later?
The necessary features will be added eventually, but probably not all of them in the first release of start scenarios. The targeted frameworks sound pretty big:
With the priority-designation system, could we get some kind of (maybe optional?) conveyor-belt automation? So when all the tasks labeled 1 (or maybe all the tasks labeled 1 in some subset of labors, like "mining" or "farmwork" (maybe grouping by labor group, individual skill, or not at all should be another option)) are finished, all the 2s become 1s, the 3s become 2s, etc.
It always bugs me when priority systems don't have this kind of automation, because I always end up having to go back in and manually advance things to fit something in at the bottom. By the way, it'd be nice, when assigning priorities, to see some kind of indication of how many tasks each priority level has in it currently, or at least a binary "lightbulb" telling me if a level has any tasks.
You people always come through when we depend on you- and we do depend on you for the Rock & Roll lifestyle we have become accustomed to.
Looking over the bug tracker change log, I see bug 6397 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=6397) and bug 1416 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=1416) have been fixed.Noooooooooooooooooo. Those were the best bugs in the whole game. I never got to make my own planepacked and I'm sad i'll never get to now.
A.K.A. The Shaft of Enlightenment and the Planepacked glitch.
It is terrifying.
giant meter-long cloth shears.....see, you say that, but all I see is "urist-long method of selectively removing limbs for !!Science!! purposes", strange.
Don't worry. The planepacked glitch existed before burrows, but the incarnation that Toady just fixed was for the Burrow version.
What I'm saying is a future release will introduce a similar bug, and you'll get your planepacked.
But no timeline on what feature could possibly rebreak the game.
Let's say I embark at the opposite side of the world to my civilization's settlements/hills/halls. How are local hill dwarf settlements - so that we have some to interact with - going to be formed? Will some be founded when we embark? When we become a barony? Will some of our own dwarves request permission to go and form a hill site and then receive their own migrants from our parent civ? What if we embark on a terrifying glacier or have similarly unsuitable surroundings for hill dwarves? If our civ is otherwise dead when we embark are we effectively screwed when it comes to having hill dwarf interaction?
I'm going to risk being hammered by posting a suggestion right here . . . but I'll take the risk.
Why not use a mandate-like system for starting scenarios?
I mean, that is what a mandate is right?
You could get a mandate from your King in some scenarios, to ignore at your own peril.
It also gives the liason an extra function.
Too suggestiony:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Threetoe: The next question is from Jacob, and he asks, "Will nobles give a better explanation why they want something?"
Toady: Well, there isn't really much of a reason right now. They do have their preferences, where if they prefer a certain material, they'll ban its export and then demand that you make stuff out of it. And that's really all the reasons that we have right now. I think as the start scenarios and other things move forward, we'll probably slowly move away from arbitrary demands being one of the forces at work in your fortress and move it over toward things that actually make a little more sense. And then hopefully, by that time you won't need better explanations or we'll provide them when they're necessary.
The overlap has been noted:"When I was a lad, I know you and Mom couldn't afford a mini-forge for me to play with. But now I'm mayor, and I'll have them now! Tell the craftsdwarves to make mini-forges! Bring them to..."Quote from: http://bay12games.com/media/df_talk_22_transcript.html#22.32Threetoe: The next question is from Jacob, and he asks, "Will nobles give a better explanation why they want something?"
Toady: Well, there isn't really much of a reason right now. They do have their preferences, where if they prefer a certain material, they'll ban its export and then demand that you make stuff out of it. And that's really all the reasons that we have right now. I think as the start scenarios and other things move forward, we'll probably slowly move away from arbitrary demands being one of the forces at work in your fortress and move it over toward things that actually make a little more sense. And then hopefully, by that time you won't need better explanations or we'll provide them when they're necessary.
*whispers*This needs to go to the suggestions forum, read the first post*whispers*
Could we see an upgrade to the very young ceramics industry? I am a professional potter and have some very simple/reasonable suggestions that would make it much more realistic. I doubt any of these would require serious work and could be implemented quickly.
I fixed a problem today which sometimes caused dwarves not to fight monsters/invaders, especially if there were lots of other dwarves in line-of-sight.
So dwarves are vulnerable to moral hazard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_hazard). Seems compatible with their tendency to go on break just when their skills are needed most!QuoteI fixed a problem today which sometimes caused dwarves not to fight monsters/invaders, especially if there were lots of other dwarves in line-of-sight.
Praise the lord! :P
Great to see this bug gone, it caused a lot of headache for quiet a few people.
Derails are fun, why prune them?
The purpose of the thread is to discuss current developments. [...] Questions and comments about the development page or DF development somewhat more broadly work here, though any contentious topics that lead to derails are discouraged -- there are threads for those too.
I am quite excited by the most recent devlog (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/#2015-01-10), but I shall strive to remain calm.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Good gods yes this is going to be awesome!So, eventually we will have yaks appointed as generals and cows convicted of murder...
With multi-species forts, will intelligent pets/non-civilized animal-men or whatever (gorlaks!) be eligible for citizenship, or will it only be possible for other already civilized species to become citizens for now?
When a creature signs on to the fortress roster, will you have them keep the ethics and values of their homeland or immediately adopt all of the customs of their adoptive country, or some average inbetween?
We're going to deal with any remaining issues with multi-species forts for this release
That's the idea, yes.QuoteWe're going to deal with any remaining issues with multi-species forts for this release
Will this release fix bug 4692 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=4692)?
Since the next release is going to add in intellectual needs for dwarves, does that mean we can expect some sort of temple zone at some point after the tavern update?Possibly as part of the start scenarios. One of those Toady plans for the start is establishing a religious site. That would be a good place to add spiritual needs and the spiritual zones and activities to fulfill them.
Will there be barfights with the inclusion of taverns and inns? Please say yes.
will we be able to listen in on the story telling and conversations? if so the story telling could be a good way to learn about your worlds history if it ever includes historical stories, and give a deeper insight into your civilization if the story being told is a legend or fairy tale.(Green-glowing text on a dark background isn't nearly as easy to pick out as green text.)
will we be able to listen in on the story telling and conversations? if so the story telling could be a good way to learn about your worlds history if it ever includes historical stories, and give a deeper insight into your civilization if the story being told is a legend or fairy tale.
I'd expect the stories to be more like the description of an in-game book, though probably skewing toward lighter "writing" styles. In the eventual nursery zones, we might even get children's tales.will we be able to listen in on the story telling and conversations? if so the story telling could be a good way to learn about your worlds history if it ever includes historical stories, and give a deeper insight into your civilization if the story being told is a legend or fairy tale.
"In 223 Ozboth the Baths of Killing was killed by Urist the Dwarf"
"That's terrifying"
x100
will we be able to listen in on the story telling and conversations? if so the story telling could be a good way to learn about your worlds history if it ever includes historical stories, and give a deeper insight into your civilization if the story being told is a legend or fairy tale.From DF Talk #12:
Rainseeker: Could you perhaps listen to the story? Like with the game, you could just jump in and listen to it?
Toady: You'd certainly be able to see what the story is about. If it's randomly generating the dude talking ... I threatened at one point to do a poetry generator, I've threatened these things, and if it comes down to it now it seems early because we haven't done the grammar rewrites and the things that I wanted to do with that stuff, so it might not happen immediately. Before I play too much with language I wanted to get through those things, but if it's just ...
[snip]
Toady: That's right ... You should be able to see what they're about, even if it isn't giving you the blow-by-blow, and there are things it can do, like if he's retelling the story of a war, he can talk about ... you know we've got the different list of events that happened and the storyteller might highlight a particular duel from that war, just mention it or whatever ... So you'll get some information, I doubt we'll be jumping too far off the deep end on that one right now, and what else ... singing, and dancing ... what else do people do to entertain themselves? I don't know if they're going to be putting on plays...
Capntastic: Boasting.
Toady: Yeah, just talking all kinds of crap.
Rainseeker: That would be kind of cool, have them lying about stuff they've done, they tell a story but it's actually a lie.
Toady: Yeah we can finally use those personality traits, those lying skills, and their creativity. And they could make up fake stories, it's not boasting, it's just telling a funny story or whatever. So it should be cool; one of the main things of that release is just getting your dwarves in there and not just having these stand around and talk parties. There's a place for that, but not in a dwarf fortress ... and they don't even have drinks, they're just sitting there talking to each other, I guess they've all just really close friends talking about old times and doddering around or something. But not anymore.
hey toady!
thank you so much for all the great work. DF is definitely one of the most amazing games i've ever played!
I was wondering if and when we can expect a fix to the overlap issues between military equipment and certain jobs (miners, woodcutters). I know it's not a major issue but it is one that annoys me the most :D
Will recipes (when added) include non-food recipes? i.e recipes to recreate artifactsThe recipes will likely only be for consumables, and probably only for actual food rather that other things like alchemy, at least at the start. Either way, artifacts would not be among the things recipes would be used for.
Will we be able to create fixed events during world creation; things such as a specific text/book, or perhaps a song, that will then appear in the game by someone either not specified or a person of importance?It seems possible, though not particularly likely, that songs and stories get a raw format of their own, which could work like (or be part of) the descriptions raws. I wouldn't count on it for the time being though.
I feel like this has been asked but will there be books that grant experience to the reader? Or more aquired abilities?
Similar to necromancy
It's related to the scenarios because your mission might be to acquire new knowledge for your civ. Right now the only civ-level knowledge is domesticating animals, but that might be expanded to learning how to work new-to-your-civ plants or ores or items. This could easily wait to a second or third release of the scenario feature.I feel like this has been asked but will there be books that grant experience to the reader? Or more aquired abilities?
Similar to necromancy
I don't think this quite answers your question, but Toady mentioned something about a knowledge system in the November FOTF reply (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140544.msg5844095#msg5844095), potentially going in during start scenarios, though it's really up in the air at this point.
Which brings me to a related question. How do you intend to mitigate feature creep during starting scenarios? It's beginning to sound like a magical, solve-everything release, which means it will take a very long time to implement.
Eventually I would like to see different body parts on different tiles, so dwarves would have to climb on a colossus to attack its head.well that's in the current dev list, so maybe within 10 years? :D
Wagons are already in the game, so I expect they should be modelled like that, at least at first. Eventually I would like to see different body parts on different tiles, so dwarves would have to climb on a colossus to attack its head.siege engine revamps, no military is going to take on a multi tile chunk of hostile bronze lol
A bronze colossus is supposed to be 1/4 as big as the Statue of Liberty. That means it should take up that many tiles. A bunch of dwarves with hand weapons should not give it much trouble. That is what giant, deadly contraptions and magma are for.The issue isn't so much that the militia can hack a bronze colossus until it stops moving if they have hard enough weapons. The issue is that it can scamper down a narrow staircase to get at your militia while a merchant's cart requires a 6m-wide ramp.
As I often say, beasts are generally too weak at the moment.
Can a single temple designation be aligned to more than one deity, or would you need to make overlapping zones?Was wondering the same. If you dedicate a big temple for a single god then worshipers of that god might get a bigger happy thought praying there than say, the same temple but shared with the whole pantheon of 26 more gods which they don't worship.
Temples! PRAISE ARMOK! I might actually take a break from Minecraft to build ridiculous monuments here for a change.I would expect overlapping zones, at least for an initial release. And if the overlapping rooms logic applies to zones, it would decrease the "value" of each zone. The Goddess of Death and Greed would not be pleased :)
Can a single temple designation be aligned to more than one deity, or would you need to make overlapping zones?
Will the new temples in fort mode tie into desecration and curses (in the initial release)?That's extremely unlikely. As Toady said in the devlog, they're not doing much with temples yet.
There is plenty of precedent for temples to be far-and-away more elaborate than any other buildings in the area, and even in the time of kings the temples often rivaled the palaces. Toady, do you intend to leave the temple design up to the player (simple shrine to megaproject) or will the requirements increase as the number of worshipers and/or fort wealth increase?For the first release, I doubt that there'll be much, if anything, in terms of requirements beyond a meeting zone. That seems more like start scenario territory.
With the addition of temples, will religious festivals and observances ever come into play?Ever? Yes. :P Religious festivals and holy days are at least implied on the old dev page. For example:
Bloat382, MORE SPHERE LINKS FOR TEMPLES, (Future): Right now, only certain deity spheres get architecture links in their corresponding temples. There's more that can be done there, and the concept can be expanded from architecture to many other elements of the faith/temple, so that certain type of items/creatures/festivals/rituals/etc. occur in the temple.
PowerGoal82, ON KARNAK'S GOOD SIDE, (Future): It is the Holy Day of Karnak. The people gather in their customary place at night in the Baron's orchard for their prayer circle. After the prayer, the player is elevated to one of the positions within the priesthood emphasizing Karnak's association with the sun rather than one emphasizing his association with suffering
Will the main version number update with the addition of taverns?It's pretty likely - Toady said that they're about halfway (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=146696.msg5888264#msg5888264) to 0.41 in the "new" system (that's been in effect since 0.31.01).
all things considered with multi-culture forts comeing in (starting with the tavern arc) it's probably going to be possible to at least get animal pepole in you forts, I think NPC villages and civs can already do so (I see Sasquatch recruits on the surface all the time) but I would love confirmation and details. If someone like a animal man joins or fort will we get access to there tech, like will we be able to make blow Darts?
With the addition of temples will the "defile the temple" night-creature creating event now be able to happen in our own fortresses?
This might lead to some interesting events in our fortresses.
Temples ! Elaborate obsidian altars! Flowing rivers of blood ! Officialized magma sacrifices ! Yessss!
Now all of this has official justification ! Finally !
Temples ! Elaborate obsidian altars! Flowing rivers of blood ! Officialized magma sacrifices ! Yessss!
Now all of this has official justification ! Finally !
Vanilla dwarves will NEVER choose to engage in blood sacrifice.
Temples ! Elaborate obsidian altars! Flowing rivers of blood ! Officialized magma sacrifices ! Yessss!
Now all of this has official justification ! Finally !
Vanilla dwarves will NEVER choose to engage in blood sacrifice.
Even to the gods of death ?
If it isn't goblin sacrifice it will be animal sacrifice.
Mmmm, I doubt it. While the ethics don't prohibit it outright, I think the TORTURE ethics are the most closely applicable. AS_EXAMPLE, FOR_INFORMATION, FOR_FUN, and ANIMALS are all UNTHINKABLE, and I'd say ritual sacrifice is gruesome enough to fall under those for at least sapient kills. However, I'm stretching things here, so I think there will be ETHIC:RITUAL_SACRIFICE coming along sooner or later. (MAKE_TROPHY also seems applicable...)Spoiler: The full ETHIC text for vanilla dwarves (click to show/hide)
Hammering is gruesome, but since the first blow of a hammer to the head should be instant death, it is not really torturous
Being Broken at the wheel may be the closest historical equivalent to a cruel hammering :/
How did we pass from inns with merry songs and happy music to temples of doom and medieval torture with so much easiness and eagerness??
How did we pass from inns with merry songs and happy music to temples of doom and medieval torture with so much easiness and eagerness??Yes, getting hammered at a tavern does sound much more pleasant.
How did we pass from inns with merry songs and happy music to temples of doom and medieval torture with so much easiness and eagerness??
you can't play df without becoming an evil overlord half-way through the game because: realistic and gory health systems + freedom to do everything you want + a bunch of lunatic players = Evil !!SCIENTIFIC!! Experiments.
you can't play df without becoming an evil overlord half-way through the game because: realistic and gory health systems + freedom to do everything you want + a bunch of lunatic players = Evil !!SCIENTIFIC!! Experiments.
The health system is not realistic. When was the last time you saw a punched hand explode into gore through a gauntlet?
Torture already exists in DF adventure mode, at the hands of the player (I have read stories of players snapping all an enemy's fingers before finally putting them out of their misery days later). Fortress dwarves have also been observed doing it, even on their own kind (dwarven child care and forgotten beast poison experiments). Legal systems where confession and torture play a major part would be a good addition for some civilisations, though Toady may not want dwarves doing it; it is far easier for a lazy lawman to tear out his suspect's teeth until he confesses the crime than to do a proper investigation to be sure of getting the right culprit, and such systems were (and in some places still are) thus very popular.
What were Toady's views on torture? I know that he didn't want dwarves doing it, but is he willing to implement it at all, or does he think that torture will also make DF "that game"?
It will not show up in game at first, since temples are currently barely developed, but it makes sense that some religions are more violent than others. That does not necessarily mean that the god is associated with a more violent thing; gods of the sun and fertility also received sacrifices."Our god has spoken. He demands that we establish an order of knights to enforce his will upon our plane. And he demands a shrubbery."
Randomly generated plays would be a wonderful addition to the DF world. Surrealism would come centuries early.
So don't expect religion being fleshed out in any capacity in near future. In this context, I find all these questions about religion premature.It's not the Near Future of the Fortress thread :) Toady One has created a fantastic game that sparks a lot of interest, and some people are curious about what he sees as the long-term goals of the project.
Does the temples being fully developed suggest a possible use for the gods and more dynamics between the religions? Or when finished just be focused on individual temples and inside fortress dynamics?
and guiltishly doing two
Will religions be fleshed out in terms of how their tenants, outside spheres and the individual gods, work? Such as if they allow multiple god worship, accept new gods to the pantheon, and what they consider to be profane? I guess I don't really need a specific answer I guess what I mean is: Is there going to be more to religions outside the individual gods?
Framework
Expand framework of law, custom, rights, property and status as needed to provide a variety of scenarios
Foundation of laws, both natural and supernatural
Explicit standing of different citizens vs. civilization authorities
Possible expansion of religious and family concepts to provide sufficient scenarios
Are taverns going to be re-sized?Because the current taverns are so tiny that I doubt someone could trow a party there.Likely not in this release, but in the ill-fated short term release list, tavern were linked with large manors for that reason, to be able to get large structures where needed (temples would then also get larger, as I recall). So, eventually it should happen.
Narrator: "In the year 1066, Urist McSoldier killed a creature composed of ash by bashing it in the foot with a pair of pants, but the creature removed Urist's heart, liver, and guts first."
Actor: *Has impromptu surgery onstage, or imitates it if he has had the procedure already*
And then the narrator drinks the actor's blood until the actor dies.
22-01-15 01:24
(Toady One) Continuing to go through stuff -- breaks and generic parties are gone, needs are in, and people go to hang out at taverns and temples according to their needs. There are simple activities set up, and the next project is to flesh those out with randomized stuffs so that we can move on to visitors.
Will better musicians/instrument quality reduce breaks or "needs"? (whatever the new break system is)I'd imagine it'll give a mood boost at least.
I'd imagine it'll give a mood boost at least.Will badly performed music give a negative mood beyond being woken up by it?
It's not the Near Future of the Fortress thread :) Toady One has created a fantastic game that sparks a lot of interest, and some people are curious about what he sees as the long-term goals of the project.
The purpose of the thread is to discuss current developments. Specific bugs should be reported on the bug tracker (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/), and specific suggestions belong for the most part in the suggestion forum (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=5.0). Questions and comments about the development page or DF development somewhat more broadly work here, though any contentious topics that lead to derails are discouraged -- there are threads for those too.
If you have specific questions, I'll try to answer them all, although it is difficult to respond to everything when it is busy. I'll lean toward questions that involve current developments to avoid pulling the entire suggestion forum in here.
Establishing a roadside inn is one of the starting scenarios Toady is looking at for that section of the dev plans. This would probably involve fewer migrants (you'd likely have employees and people looking for jobs), no sieges, trouble with patrons, especially bandit-y ones, and so on.With an unassuming hatch in the back room that open to a sprawling underground fortress...
With multi-racial forts being worked on, will other races' unique abilities come into play? For example, elves growing wood?Only to the extent that they already exist codewise, I'm sure. Toady won't take that much of a detour to actually add elves being able to make trees grow the grown wood items they sell, for example.
Why? It is a necessary mechanic for elves to work, and certainly if elves will ever be playable, which I am in favour of.Exactly. It's important for elves to work for when they become playable. Not so much for dwarves who hire elves. Besides, what exactly elves do with their trees is an unresolved question at the moment, and will likely depend on the world's metaphysics. Right now, it would just be a distraction.
I swear if there are barfights broken noses better start being able to heal.Most of the skills in DF are gained through use. So the presumable answer, is yes. As they'll be employed.
Will there be barfights that increase combat skillsand train medical dwarves?
Will there be any leisure activities that consume the fort's supplies? For example, a dwarf might have knitting as a hobby and use up thread, or have a shell collection and take ownership of some of the shells in the stockpile.They used to do something like this before the economy was turned off pending a recode. Dwarves would buy items they liked from shops. It meant some dwarves would fill their rooms with scepters or similar.
But an elf in a dwarf fortress would still function like an elf in an elf fortress. If elves are to become permanent residents in dwarf fortresses, it will become theoretically possible to make a fort of nothing but elves if the starting dwarves die, so players can play as elves anyway. That means full functionality must exist for elves, else players doing this will be unable to get wood without resorting to cheap penis jokes.
Are there plans to expand the current list of musical instruments? It's pretty limited at one percussion, one string, and three wind instruments.I think the new devlog indirectly answers this question now - Toady mentioned that there would be four instrument skills, versus the three types of instrument already in the game. So presumably, there'll be at least one keyboard instrument. Should be interesting, considering most could count as furniture that has to be built.
Dwarven Pipe Organ Mega Projects Go.Are there plans to expand the current list of musical instruments? It's pretty limited at one percussion, one string, and three wind instruments.I think the new devlog indirectly answers this question now - Toady mentioned that there would be four instrument skills, versus the three types of instrument already in the game. So presumably, there'll be at least one keyboard instrument. Should be interesting, considering most could count as furniture that has to be built.
Not quite, because an elf that is part of a Dwarven entity has Dwarven ethics, and presumably has access to the same technology and techniques. An elf (probably) doesn't know how to grow wood from birth, and even if they did Dwarven culture would likely view this ability as useless outside of a few niche applications.
Dwarven Pipe Organ Mega Projects Go.Are there plans to expand the current list of musical instruments? It's pretty limited at one percussion, one string, and three wind instruments.I think the new devlog indirectly answers this question now - Toady mentioned that there would be four instrument skills, versus the three types of instrument already in the game. So presumably, there'll be at least one keyboard instrument. Should be interesting, considering most could count as furniture that has to be built.
Are there plans to expand the current list of musical instruments? It's pretty limited at one percussion, one string, and three wind instruments.I think the new devlog indirectly answers this question now - Toady mentioned that there would be four instrument skills, versus the three types of instrument already in the game. So presumably, there'll be at least one keyboard instrument. Should be interesting, considering most could count as furniture that has to be built.
He also talks about stats and even a generator for the instruments, so yes, that pretty much got answered.
He also talks about stats and even a generator for the instruments, so yes, that pretty much got answered.Huh. I guess it could be an instrument generator. I took it that the music generator would instead be informed by the instrument stats in the civilization.
Does the new entertainment stuff apply to adventurers? Will I be able to play as a bard soon?It might not happen in the first release (then again, it might), but if it doesn't, it should happen soon enough thereafter. Toady seems determined to manage the tavern stuff in two or three releases (I had predicted at least four releases), so either way you should get to play a bard relatively soon.
There will be both knowledge and skill-based components to this -- so you can't compose a poem of a variety you aren't familiar with, no matter how good you are, but once you learn the rules, the quality will depend on your skills/atts.By what process will knowledge of poetic forms be acquired? Will skill affect how quickly a character picks it up?
Will we also be getting combat styles and per-weapon skills/attributes, similar to instruments?
Does the new need system that replaced breaks utilize zoos, statue gardens, and similar ilk at all? Or will those need to wait for their own new zones and associated needs? Have you considered modable zones with modable needs?I would expect all those existing zones to still be used for Idle dwarves, and those who are just filling a need to socialise without drinking or singing.
Toady twittered that it is an instrument generator.He also talks about stats and even a generator for the instruments, so yes, that pretty much got answered.Huh. I guess it could be an instrument generator. I took it that the music generator would instead be informed by the instrument stats in the civilization.
I'm a bit concerned by 'skill-like' stats for instruments. The shear number of skills in this game, and the complex interactions between them, are one of the things that puts a fairly large burden on the player, making 3rd party tools like Therapist a necessity for many. If there isn't an overhaul of the skill system planned, I would just go with ordinary skills for each instrument. I don't think we need 'skill-like' anything.
Do dubious believers have lower spiritual needs (less breaks for prayer or whatever they do)?My guess is that a dwarf will still want about the same amount of time off, they'll just apportion that according to what is important to them.
How will dwarves fulfil their needs when there's no appropriate zone? Prayer could be done wherever I suppose, but socialising or merrymaking seems like they'd need some sort of organization. Or do they just get increasingly intense bad thoughts?
I'm a bit concerned by 'skill-like' stats for instruments. The shear number of skills in this game, and the complex interactions between them, are one of the things that puts a fairly large burden on the player, making 3rd party tools like Therapist a necessity for many. If there isn't an overhaul of the skill system planned, I would just go with ordinary skills for each instrument. I don't think we need 'skill-like' anything.
I suppose that randomly genned instruments will require randomly generated skills. Sounds ugly.
For instance, what exactly is different between a mason and a stonecrafter? Or a bowyer and a carpenter?
I can play Dwarf Fortress; thus, I can win national Smash Brothers tournaments. They're both just video games, right?
I can play the guitar fairly well; therefore, I can play the violin fairly well. They're both just string instruments, right?
I can play Dwarf Fortress; thus, I can win national Smash Brothers tournaments. They're both just video games, right?
I can play the guitar fairly well; therefore, I can play the violin fairly well. They're both just string instruments, right?
Then we ought to have a throne-making mason skill, a table-making mason skill, a cabinet-making mason skill, a millstone-making mason skill, etc., as well as copies of all of those skills for every single material, including different varieties of stones, such as harder rocks and softer rocks (gypsum vs granite, for instance), and also different varieties of wood, and perhaps even a skill for every single alloy, right?
Well that would just be ridiculous complexity. Plus it would mean legendary granite chair makers would have absolutely no ability to make gypsum tables which is just absurd. Then that would increase memory usage by making an incredibly large amount of things tracked by each dwarf. Also it would mess with modding support. You can't make new skills, but if the skills are limited to gabbro chair maker then you have the gabbro chair making skill increased by making cheese chairs because the system wouldn't be good for that. Now it might seem like I'm missing the point, but if you ask anybody who's knowledgeable on the subject they'd say that making crossbows is very different from making chairs, but chairs and tables are pretty similar. It's even different from a gameplay perspective, crafters make trade goods, and masons or carpenters whatever make furniture. The downsides of this significant realism increase is: a few people get confused when they tell their mason to make stone crafts. Then I suppose all the people complaining about "OH MY GOSH TWO SKILLS FOR WORKING WITH STONES THIS IS TOO MUCH FOR ME" could be considered a downside.I can play Dwarf Fortress; thus, I can win national Smash Brothers tournaments. They're both just video games, right?
I can play the guitar fairly well; therefore, I can play the violin fairly well. They're both just string instruments, right?
Then we ought to have a throne-making mason skill, a table-making mason skill, a cabinet-making mason skill, a millstone-making mason skill, etc., as well as copies of all of those skills for every single material, including different varieties of stones, such as harder rocks and softer rocks (gypsum vs granite, for instance), and also different varieties of wood, and perhaps even a skill for every single alloy, right?
I think a better model than having separate skills for stone-crafting, masonry, and engraving, would be to use the same model as the fighting and archer skill. That is, you add another skill "stone working" that will help the labors of stone-crafting, masonry, and engraving, in addition to the existing skills. And there's doesn't need to be a strict hierarchy, just two skills associated with one labor. So for example you could have wood crafting share a skill with bone carving, and another skill with wood cutting, but wood cutting would not help with bone carving.Maybe the whole skill system could use some cleaning up. That doesn't sound too hard. Some kind of soft-hierarchical system like King Mir suggested above across the board. Any product that has no quality levels should fall under some umbrella skill. All farmers can milk a cow, a yeti, whatever.
I think I'd prefer if that degree of realism waited until the game lets dwarves try and learn without necessarily doing, like by observation of others, or planning carefully.
(starting to get suggestiony, but...)I think a better model than having separate skills for stone-crafting, masonry, and engraving, would be to use the same model as the fighting and archer skill. That is, you add another skill "stone working" that will help the labors of stone-crafting, masonry, and engraving, in addition to the existing skills. And there's doesn't need to be a strict hierarchy, just two skills associated with one labor. So for example you could have wood crafting share a skill with bone carving, and another skill with wood cutting, but wood cutting would not help with bone carving.Maybe the whole skill system could use some cleaning up. That doesn't sound too hard. Some kind of soft-hierarchical system like King Mir suggested above across the board. Any product that has no quality levels should fall under some umbrella skill. All farmers can milk a cow, a yeti, whatever.
Oh yeah? I bet you to milk a cow.
Thing is, most of those things do require skills. In the case of milking you can take a lot longer or even get injuried (or end up dead) if you dont know what you are doing. However since tamed animals are 100safe and docile in the game you dont get to see that.
In game terms, there is none of that though. If there were, or if the milk was different somehow according to skill, then it's worthy of the player's attention. Otherwise, just lump it in to some general skill.
And you can milk a cow everyday since you are born, but that doesn't make you a tad good in gelding by itself.
That maybe true, but don't let real life get in the way of the game. Even the mighty Dwarf Fortress doesn't simulate everything and has plenty of abstraction. Knowing someones milking or gelding skill is just not useful to the player. If a skill has no current impact on the course of events, leave the player out of it entirely, at least until something changes and it begins to matter.
I suppose you can have the opinion that basic farming chores should be more difficult, but modeling that in a way that is fun is not a small undertaking. Given the limited resources available, for my part I would like to see the game move forward in other ways.
Have you switched to c++11/14? How much did it make a coding easier?
How do invaders find their way to a fort now, do they have to path over other sites to get to the fort?
What techniques do you use to help you maintain such a large and sprawling codebase?
Quote from: Novel Scoopshave you thought about updating the effects of sobriety?Quote from: NaryarWith the tavern update, will some of the more immoderate dwarves will actually become drunk, with different degrees of drunkenness (I suppose it would be shown in the Wounds screen as Tipsy, Drunk, Dead Drunk, etc., like Stunned and the other status effects), and cause drunken shenanigans all over your fort ?
I've really missed the DFTalk frequency we had a few years ago. Are there any plans to get back to a more regular schedule with those? If not is that more because of scheduling conflicts or a lack of topics to discuss?
I was listening to some of the older DFTalks and was particularly interested in the game vs simulation discussions. What parts of the game do you currently feel are the worst offenders in terms of being way too gamey or way too simulationey? Are there any parts of the game for which you think you got the balance almost spot on?
As it stands right now we can embark on the opposite side of the world to the rest of our civilization. Presumably this could mean very long travel times when interacting with existing hill and deep dwarves especially when trying to set up armies or come to their aid? It also wouldn't make much sense for hillocks half-way across the world to be under the control of our barony when other dwarf baronies are already much closer. Will we eventually have dwarves founding hillocks in the vicinity of our own fortresses when we embark or as our fortress grows more powerful? If so do you envision this as something we control, perhaps sending some of our own citizens to found a new hillock, or will it be something the parent civilization does in the background? What if our surroundings are unsuitable for hillocks eg terrifying glaciers surrounded by goblin pits? What if our parent civ is dead(-ish)?
What reasons did the necromancers have for attacking their zombies? Is it related to the necro siege I got where all the sieging zombies left immediately?
Quote from: endlessblazeDoes this mean we will be able to have elves and goblins in our forts soon?Quote from: Eric BlankWith multi-species forts, will intelligent pets/non-civilized animal-men or whatever (gorlaks!) be eligible for citizenship, or will it only be possible for other already civilized species to become citizens for now?
When a creature signs on to the fortress roster, will you have them keep the ethics and values of their homeland or immediately adopt all of the customs of their adoptive country, or some average inbetween?
I am curious if standing orders for finished products, especially drinks and foods, will consider the likes and dislikes of the community. I'm also wondering how deep standing orders will percolate through the community, and to what degree standing orders might interact with likes and dislikes of fortress dwarves and potential trader interactions.
Will there be barfights with the inclusion of taverns and inns? Please say yes.
Since the next release is going to add in intellectual needs for dwarves, does that mean we can expect some sort of temple zone at some point after the tavern update?
What will the stories sound like when spoken?
I feel like this has been asked but will there be books that grant experience to the reader? Or more aquired abilities?
Similar to necromancy
If books are used in some way, will they or some kind of writing material be needed in administration, at least from a certain point of time?
How do you intend to mitigate feature creep during starting scenarios? It's beginning to sound like a magical, solve-everything release, which means it will take a very long time to implement.
do you have plans on how to implement multi tile creatures graphically? for example, will a bronze collosus be a bunch of Cs in the shape of a collosus, or using existing characters to make different parts look like a foot or a head or whatever?
If you were implementing them now, would furniture like chairs be tools?
With the addition of temples, will religious festivals and observances ever come into play?
With temples are we going to have new furniture (such as, altars)? Or will that be covered by existing furniture (like tables)?
Quote from: FieariWill the new temples in fort mode tie into desecration and curses (in the initial release)?Quote from: CaptainArchmageWith the addition of temples will the "defile the temple" night-creature creating event now be able to happen in our own fortresses?
Can a single temple designation be aligned to more than one deity, or would you need to make overlapping zones?
does this means that the noise mechanics are getting an update? Would taverns be noisy? What about the music? Should we expect some changes regarding sound?
Toady, do you intend to leave the temple design up to the player (simple shrine to megaproject) or will the requirements increase as the number of worshipers and/or fort wealth increase?
Is it going to be possible to play as the different animal people in Adventurer mode or Fortress mode? (Such as Cave Swallowmen, etc.) Will these animal people be capable of making their our temples or religious totems?
all things considered with multi-culture forts comeing in (starting with the tavern arc) it's probably going to be possible to at least get animal pepole in you forts, I think NPC villages and civs can already do so (I see Sasquatch recruits on the surface all the time) but I would love confirmation and details. If someone like a animal man joins or fort will we get access to there tech, like will we be able to make blow Darts?
Considering that a lot of religious worship involves music, will the music creation activities in taverns be extended to happen in temples? Or do you see temples more as places for quiet reflection and prayer?
Also, if we have people who worship a megabeast or titan in our fortress, will we be able to create a temple to said creature? If it invades, it could see the temple in its honor and either decide that it is a nice place to stick around, or just that since we worship it, it doesn't need to murder all our citizens.
Can we create our own custom deities through a noble or by using the temple? Will dwarves be able to change religion? Can we enforce punishment on heresy or blasphemy? Will some religions be more violent? Will some religions be more peaceful?
Edit: When I asked the last two questions, I was referring to world generation scenarios. It would suck if all religions seemed the same for each race.
When a historical figure becomes a legend by defeating an evil beast,or when they become a important leader,they usually receive engravings,statues and books that concerns their heroic acts.Will such people receive a song in their honor?Maybe even a play about them?
Does the temples being fully developed suggest a possible use for the gods and more dynamics between the religions? Or when finished just be focused on individual temples and inside fortress dynamics?
and guiltishly doing two
Will religions be fleshed out in terms of how their tenants, outside spheres and the individual gods, work? Such as if they allow multiple god worship, accept new gods to the pantheon, and what they consider to be profane? I guess I don't really need a specific answer I guess what I mean is: Is there going to be more to religions outside the individual gods?
Oddly enough that is what I am really interested in because one of the things I found interested was the religion dynamics within the game. For example some wars or disagreements being made because of the worship of deities often within the same religion (Oddly often with gods of death... which makes sense 'fictional world' wise but not 'world history' wise) and I was just like "Is that god the evil god of this pantheon? or are they just fighting over godly supremacy".
In relation to religion ,is any sort mythology generation (god X father of god Y, genealogy tree, relationships between gods like in most mythology or things like this) an idea you are working on, or will gods remain independant from each other ?
Does the new need system that replaced breaks utilize zoos, statue gardens, and similar ilk at all? Or will those need to wait for their own new zones and associated needs? Have you considered modable zones with modable needs?
When dwarves go play music in the taverns or temples, will they just play solo or is there the possibility for them to group up in (whether impromptu spur-of-the-moment or not) bands?
Will (or do) stringed instruments have string that is actually made of, well, string? Whether it's catgut (actually sheepgut, although knowing dwarves, it actually COULD be from cats) or metal string. I'm just wondering this because I find a rock harp to be impossible to play.
Will artifact instruments give really high quality thoughts to other dwarves? I imagine that masterwork quality instruments will give better quality thoughts than fine quality. Though the dwarfs own instrument skill would come into play, after all, a dabbling music player could play an artifact flute badly.
Will they also sing along to the music? You know, like drinking songs, or just folksy songs, or even bard songs.
Given that many elements of the tavern arc seem ripe for re-use elsewhere in the game, how much planning and future-proofing do you attempt when adding new features into the game?
Will better musicians/instrument quality reduce breaks or "needs"?
Will badly performed music give a negative mood beyond being woken up by it?
Will dwarves eventually have different tastes in music or other arts?
With multi-racial forts being worked on, will other races' unique abilities come into play? For example, elves growing wood?
As far as room-groupings such as the mayorial suite, will these be added in with the temples/taverns, or will it wait until a subsequent release?
Will one of the new zones eventually replace the Trade Depot?
Are you looking around the world for pub inspiration and drinking culture? Come to think of it, I'm sure there are regional twists beyond what you drink and how much.
Will there be any leisure activities that consume the fort's supplies?
Quote from: smjjamesCould tavern visitors potentially introduce other forms of poetry/music/dance with x chance of it catching on or someone getting inspired by it?
Also, will the tavern visitors occasionally pick up an instrument (assuming you have the one they want) and start playing or do their own singing or poetry? Would be great to see those from cultures besides that of our dwarves culture.Quote from: Cobbler89By what process will knowledge of poetic forms be acquired? Will skill affect how quickly a character picks it up?
With the new break system, will dwarves make friends/grudges more frequently now?
Will artifact instruments have any unique quality or effect when played?
Does the new entertainment stuff apply to adventurers? Will I be able to play as a bard soon?
Of the poem varieties/styles/forms that you're adding, what's your favorite?
Do dubious believers have lower spiritual needs (less breaks for prayer or whatever they do)?
How will dwarves fulfil their needs when there's no appropriate zone? Prayer could be done wherever I suppose, but socialising or merrymaking seems like they'd need some sort of organization. Or do they just get increasingly intense bad thoughts?
Does the generator try to generate each style of instrument for each entity, or are there some ways to control the output if we don't want, for example, wind instruments for a given entity?
Now that inns will (I'm assuming) exist in the world, will townspeople in adventure mode stop automatically giving us permission to sleep in their homes whenever we ask?
Do you think that the current skill system is a bit "gamey"? It is hard to tell how it works, exactly, but, for instance, a Legendary Miner can mine something like 15× faster than an unskilled miner. Is it just a multiplier placed on the time/quality for most jobs? Do you think it is reasonable as it is? What to you envision in its place, if anything?
How will vampire feedings be handled in relation to taverns and breaks? Will they still be called "On Break"? And I know it might be an intended feature, but I still want to ask, is vampire alcoholism going to be looked into?
Many thx for all the interesting info.
Probably has been asked before somewhere in this lengthy thread.
Any plans to extend the 256 ASCII-Tiles in the future? Probably to 512 or even unlimited tiles for optical differences. As there are so many tiles having multi-uses, it is quite confusing sometimes. I am not referring to adding graphics, just implementing other tiles not included in the ASCII e.g. horizontal brackets/letters or something like that. Same regarding colours. Any plans to increase them from 16 to e.g. 256 colours or even 24-bit? Some parts of the code like the color-definiton tokens seem to support them already. Or will that cause major recoding?
Rainseeker: Let's talk about ASCII characters!
Toady: Alright.
Rainseeker: Because your game is ASCII, and ASCII is probably the most fun graphical representation of a game I've ever played. It's definitely old school ... but I think that the complexity of your game totally overwhelms even noticing it's ASCII after a while. Macbeth asked this interesting question; 'As the project gets more complex do you expect that these ASCII character sets won't be able to support the detail you're adding? What are your plans for displaying that information?'
Toady: It's already at that point, if you've seen the elves versus elephants or goblins versus goats or whatever issues come up ...
Rainseeker: 'Why are those elephants shooting arrows at me? I don't understand!'
Toady: And there are methods of getting around that to some extent, but eventually you hit a wall. You saw with world generation recently the human sprawl I went with lines and whatever the letter is called (æ) when you put an 'a' and an 'e' together for the hill farms, and eventually your bag runs out of ... bag stuff ...
Rainseeker: Tricks.
Toady: There's no more tricks in the bags, no more little characters in the bag. And so then you hit that point where you're like 'do you just go over to a tileset at that point? Do you experiment with Unicode stuff? If you add just a new IBM codepage r256 grid characters or whatever ...' If we add another grid of characters that look promising and just stick with that, that's kind of counterproductive in a way, because once you jump up beyond 256 you're free to move about the country at that point and go up to 65'000 or millions or whatever the rewrite entails. At the same time there's something to be said for the ASCII mode of the game, which I like because I can develop it quickly and I don't have to ... Zach and I drawing is not the same as other people drawing ... or maybe the problem is it's the same as other people drawing who aren't artists. And we can't use other people's tilesets without worrying about legal business, and more so not just legal business but ongoing development; if we've got a tileset then are there release delays when we wait for new pictures, or if a person drawing a tileset bails do we try and find somebody that can draw in the same style as they do, or does it become some kind of hellish hybrid of different art styles. It's difficult when we don't have an employee that we can employ for several years, or a person who will stick with the project. People stick with the project, like Baughn's been helping us for quite a long time, but what happens? If Baughn leaves, I do have some trouble with linux and mac support and so on, and other people can help with that, and I'm not sure graphics is the same way where someone can just step in and do the exact same thing, although artists are talented and there's probably someone who can do that, but I don't know if I can count on that or not. Then there's the legal question, I don't know how to do that properly; I have to make sure I can find someone I can trust who isn't going to lift a glyph from Nintendo without me noticing. So there're a lot of questions, it's not completely ruled out, but there're a lot of questions. The other method would be just to add another 256 characters if I don't just go with some Unicode font or something. And in a sense there's a charm at least with the vanilla, of adding just another 256 characters, because it's an extension that's required, but it still sticks within the same kind of poetic form. But there's going to be like seven people that agree with that assessment and a whole crapload of people that are like 'what the hell are you thinking?' So we're kind of there in a sense ... not super pressing at least, not anymore pressing than adding graphics to the game always was with running out of characters to display the information. But it's certainly already hit that wall in several places, and it's only filling it out more as time goes on.
C++14 mostly works a few kinks out of C++11 -- little fixes and enhancements to the stuff that didn't even exist before. If you like auto, one thing of note is that in C++14 auto works for function return types (not to be confused with writing auto before the function name in order to write the return type after, which was already in C++11 for similar yet different reasons). I also recommend, even in C++11, becoming passingly familiar with decltype, which can be used to get auto-like effects (of tying a type to a variable rather than repeating the type explicitly) in some situations where auto wouldn't work.Quote from: GreenScapeHave you switched to c++11/14? How much did it make a coding easier?
I don't know about the 14 one, but if I remember, 11 had the auto keyword, which I thought was very useful. I didn't find anything to do with the other 11 features that I recall, like the lambda stuff.
...Unicode...Switching gears, I wonder whether an issue with the whole text tileset limit has less to do with a specific character set and more to do with the fact that it's mapped to a specific character set instead of either mapping to specific tiles (more like the graphics pack method, but for the things that are currently character-based tiles) or else to tiles 1 through n in a tileset of at least n tiles, either way requiring (for good user experience; I doubt it could be program-validated) that the tileset provided make sense with/match up to whatever is mapped to them in the raws and init files. Unicode, of course, would provide a way to achieve the latter sort of mapping, with the added bonus that if the raws/inits were written in Unicode the tiles used could still be specified as letters/symbols, but the disadvantage that Unicode has a lot of extra complication because it's designed for universal text handling, not game spritesheets. Also just my two cents' worth, feel free to take it or to leave it. ;^)
Quote from: GreenScapeHave you switched to c++11/14? How much did it make a coding easier?
I don't know about the 14 one, but if I remember, 11 had the auto keyword, which I thought was very useful. I didn't find anything to do with the other 11 features that I recall, like the lambda stuff.
for (auto& thing : someContainer){foo(thing);}
static assert if you do any metaprogramming, technically not needing to put a space between each > when nesting templates is a c++11 feature that was added really early. Stuff that is nice but might require rewriting old code is move constructors, smart pointers, and initializer lists.C++14 mostly works a few kinks out of C++11 -- little fixes and enhancements to the stuff that didn't even exist before. If you like auto, one thing of note is that in C++14 auto works for function return types (not to be confused with writing auto before the function name in order to write the return type after, which was already in C++11 for similar yet different reasons). I also recommend, even in C++11, becoming passingly familiar with decltype, which can be used to get auto-like effects (of tying a type to a variable rather than repeating the type explicitly) in some situations where auto wouldn't work.Quote from: GreenScapeHave you switched to c++11/14? How much did it make a coding easier?
I don't know about the 14 one, but if I remember, 11 had the auto keyword, which I thought was very useful. I didn't find anything to do with the other 11 features that I recall, like the lambda stuff.
As for lambdas, as far as I can tell they're mostly to help support functional programming composability styles -- sort of thing you'd find useful to no end if you came from a Haskell background, but it's an entirely different mindset with its own pros and cons...
Quote from: CaptainArchmageHow do invaders find their way to a fort now, do they have to path over other sites to get to the fort?
They walk over the land on a path avoiding water
Quote from: PseudopuppetQuoteDoes the new entertainment stuff apply to adventurers? Will I be able to play as a bard soon?
Yep, next release you should be able to make some sort of living that way, to the extent that means anything. Failure should also be possible. They can't throw you in prison yet, and they don't have apples sitting around to throw at you, but maybe there'll be some way they can express disapproval when you offend them.
Will there ever be magical songs to control your enemies and bolster your allies ala D&D Bards?
Now that you mention it, that's quite possible. I was thinking more about programming in general than about Toady's background in mathematics.Quote from: GreenScapeHave you switched to c++11/14? How much did it make a coding easier?
I don't know about the 14 one, but if I remember, 11 had the auto keyword, which I thought was very useful. I didn't find anything to do with the other 11 features that I recall, like the lambda stuff.QuoteAs for lambdas, as far as I can tell they're mostly to help support functional programming composability styles -- sort of thing you'd find useful to no end if you came from a Haskell background, but it's an entirely different mindset with its own pros and cons...
Toady's an algebraist isn't he? I bet he'd enjoy Haskell.
QuoteQuote from: FieariWill the new temples in fort mode tie into desecration and curses (in the initial release)?Quote from: CaptainArchmageWith the addition of temples will the "defile the temple" night-creature creating event now be able to happen in our own fortresses?
He he he.
A thought of my own:I doubt it. Given the myth generator Toady mentioned, it's possible that it comes in with the Artifacts section or the Starting Scenarios section, though.
With shrines (I guess those would be small temples), will ancestor worship be in?
Are temple effects on immigration on the table for the tavern release? What about pilgrimages?As you mentioned, it would almost certainly be part of the Starting Scenarios. For the tavern releases... I guess it depends on how flexible the code is for attracting tavern visitors. It could well be the case that Toady just needs to add a few things for it to work.
I think Toady means oceans and lakes here - the wandering groups in adventure mode don't particularly care about rivers that I've seen, and from my understanding, they follow the same general code.Quote from: CaptainArchmageHow do invaders find their way to a fort now, do they have to path over other sites to get to the fort?
They walk over the land on a path avoiding water
Does this mean that they avoid rivers? If so, will they simply give up if the fort is surrounded by rivers, or will they just go right over?
Thx for the quick answer.
However that link is already more than four years old. Many new features, many new items (like all the tree tiles) were added in the meantime. "Hitting the wall" as Toady says appears due to that for sure closer than back then. Any change in that attitude? Also I am not referring to graphics, which for sure will cause major and long time dedicated work. Just extending it from 256 tiles to some more. Additional tiles could be derived from e.g. UNICODE. I am no specialist regarding copyright. But as most of the UNICODE-tiles are from various recent/historic alphabets, I can't believe they are more restricted than ASCII.
Of course, the relevant display tiles would still need to be created (not all of them can be used, of course). Then again, if you go Unicode, you can essentially go freeform. Got a few hundred tiles the game'll never use on its own, such as control characters that would just be blanks? Characters that would be too large or detailed to fit the default resolution? Pack 'em with game-relevant tiles instead.Thx for the quick answer.
However that link is already more than four years old. Many new features, many new items (like all the tree tiles) were added in the meantime. "Hitting the wall" as Toady says appears due to that for sure closer than back then. Any change in that attitude? Also I am not referring to graphics, which for sure will cause major and long time dedicated work. Just extending it from 256 tiles to some more. Additional tiles could be derived from e.g. UNICODE. I am no specialist regarding copyright. But as most of the UNICODE-tiles are from various recent/historic alphabets, I can't believe they are more restricted than ASCII.
Interesting thing about moving to Unicode is that it would give access to a lot of different characters that can perfectly fit the game, and for free. While still staying in text mode for quicker development without all the complications of graphical tiles that Toady mentioned.
And second just in-case that first one does get thrown out. Will races without alcohol_dependent eventually take offence when visiting your fortress if there is no water whatsoever available, or will they perfectly happy to drink mug after mug like water like our dwarves do?Historically, water was unsafe to drink, so booze, possibly watered down, was the norm. Maybe elves wouldn't mind drinking crudely filtered swamp water, but it hardly seems right for them to expect it.
Cleaning wounds with booze should also be an option, and non fruit based alcohol should require water to brew.These are suggestions that have been around for years.
Water wasnt unsafe to drink, people drank booze because it tastes good, it was the coke of medieval times. Also the booze argument doesnt hold up if you have to make booze with water because you need some kind of base, so you will have all your heavy metals and stuff in your booze. With the alcohol concentrations of around 3-6% in beers you cant kill many of the natural bacteria that would settle in beer (actually for that effect you should go north of 20%) after its opened, thats why people added hops later (which we still need iirc) because it keeps the beer form spoiling..
Well, we're back with more content full of meticulously researched detail! Musical instruments and procedurally-generated art forms are next. Then tabletop games for your dwarves to play! Then artifacts and magic!
Wouldn't as it is right now be the easiest way? I.E, there's a CREATURE_TILE/CASTE_TILE token which is used to assign tiles by number, so that a creature with tile 195 will have ├ as its tile (or with Unicode, Ã (assuming it uses base 10 instead of base 16 as it does now))
QuoteQuote from: FieariWill the new temples in fort mode tie into desecration and curses (in the initial release)?Quote from: CaptainArchmageWith the addition of temples will the "defile the temple" night-creature creating event now be able to happen in our own fortresses?
He he he.
...I'm going to take that as a 'Yes'.
QuoteQuote from: FieariWill the new temples in fort mode tie into desecration and curses (in the initial release)?Quote from: CaptainArchmageWith the addition of temples will the "defile the temple" night-creature creating event now be able to happen in our own fortresses?
He he he.
...I'm going to take that as a 'Yes'.
I rather hope that means "Yes, and it will be spectacular."
Well, tantrums are likely a good reason to want locking doors on your temples, at least. Also setting them far from stuff that might anger dwarves. (Tavern barfights? Gambling?)
Heretics? Gods who refuse to answer prayers? :p
Also holy crap ARTIFACTS! MAGIC! I was excited enough by temples & taverns!
1.) Direct mapped to single codepointsDammit even after i googled around, found and installed code2000, i still get error blocks instead of proper glyphs
In this case, Toady'd be using it the same way he currently uses ASCII - one cell is one character; you just have a bigger menu to choose from. This might allow, say, ☭ for elves if Toady decided it. However, it could at least give us mechanisms as ⚙, the various arrows for minecart route designations (maybe ➿ for rollers?), coffins as ⚰, a proper pick character in ⛏, chains ⛓...
Finally, The One Ring, Thor's Hammer, The Singing Sword, The Golden Goblin of the Fourth Age, The Fountain of Youth, Sting (the short sword, not the singer) and many, many other things...The one pig tail sock!
The one pig tail sock!Three Pig Tail Socks for the smelly-tree hugger-kings under the sky,
Then tabletop games for your dwarves to play!Tabletop games, you say?
Quote from: Threetoe in the February ReportThen tabletop games for your dwarves to play!Tabletop games, you say?
What extent shall these exist to?
If they're randomly generated, I swear I'm going to generate as many worlds as I need until I get a game called Dungeondragon or something to that extent.
Toady: ... Finally you'll be able to have games. We're trying to randomly generate some games. We'll do what we can with dice games, and board games. They've have all been around for thousands of years so it's all fair, and your dwarves will be able to gamble, he he he. And we'll be able to... We're thinking because we have it in adventure mode anyway, the ability to play games when we do that part, which we'll talk about in a second, that you'll also be able to play the games directly if one of your dwarves is playing, just to give you a chance to see it, and to experience the game.
Quote from: InariusWill there be any other types of games than dices ? I would be very interested if you could talk more about these (if you have already thought enough about it !)
So far I've categorized the dice, board, and card/tile games I've found on wikipedia and elsewhere, decided which ones are more-or-less period (though that doesn't matter so much), made lists, done some code experiments and thought a bit. The idea is to randomize games starting from those templates, and then to get a little more adventurous over time once the code supports many almost-traditional games. The cut-off for the first random games release will probably be AI based -- we don't really mind if the opponents are terrible players, but utterly random moves are annoying (if unavoidable sometimes). Hopefully we can get at least one board game in without it being a total disaster.
Water wasnt unsafe to drink, people drank booze because it tastes good, it was the coke of medieval times. Also the booze argument doesnt hold up if you have to make booze with water because you need some kind of base, so you will have all your heavy metals and stuff in your booze. With the alcohol concentrations of around 3-6% in beers you cant kill many of the natural bacteria that would settle in beer (actually for that effect you should go north of 20%) after its opened, thats why people added hops later (which we still need iirc) because it keeps the beer form spoiling.
here is an good Article on the issue (http://leslefts.blogspot.de/2013/11/the-great-medieval-water-myth.html)
You may have thought we were giving up, or just fixing bugs for the rest of the foreseeable future.I would actually be happy about latter thing...
Hopefully we'll see them come into use in the tavern and temple activities soon.Temple activities? I see Toady could not resist feature creep after all. Ah well, it is not like temples are bad thing. It just will take more time.
Water wasnt unsafe to drink, people drank booze because it tastes good, it was the coke of medieval times. Also the booze argument doesnt hold up if you have to make booze with water because you need some kind of base, so you will have all your heavy metals and stuff in your booze. With the alcohol concentrations of around 3-6% in beers you cant kill many of the natural bacteria that would settle in beer (actually for that effect you should go north of 20%) after its opened, thats why people added hops later (which we still need iirc) because it keeps the beer form spoiling.
here is an good Article on the issue (http://leslefts.blogspot.de/2013/11/the-great-medieval-water-myth.html)
That article is good, but the guy is selective of his sources and omits numerous medieval sources which contradict his argument. That sort of omission is normally a red flag. There are more than one source from the middle ages saying people should drink beer or wine, and avoid water. And the arguments were that it promoted health, not taste.
https://zythophile.wordpress.com/2014/03/04/was-water-really-regarded-as-dangerous-to-drink-in-the-middle-ages/
Hildegard for example says not to bathe, drink or cook with the waters of the Rhine or Danube rivers. She makes no such warning about beer or wine, recommending them over water for people with medical problems of the lungs for example. So there was a definite concept around ~1200AD that brewed drinks were a safer alternative to many existing water sources, or for the infirm.
So, in other words either extreme is false: some water was seen as safe, other water was seen as dangerous, and beer/wine were seen as a safe fallback if you couldn't access clean water, and was said to be just better all round than water if you were ill or weak.
That article is good, but the guy is selective of his sources and omits numerous medieval sources which contradict his argument. That sort of omission is normally a red flag. There are more than one source from the middle ages saying people should drink beer or wine, and avoid water. And the arguments were that it promoted health, not taste.
https://zythophile.wordpress.com/2014/03/04/was-water-really-regarded-as-dangerous-to-drink-in-the-middle-ages/ (https://zythophile.wordpress.com/2014/03/04/was-water-really-regarded-as-dangerous-to-drink-in-the-middle-ages/)
Hildegard for example says not to bathe, drink or cook with the waters of the Rhine or Danube rivers. She makes no such warning about beer or wine, recommending them over water for people with medical problems of the lungs for example. So there was a definite concept around ~1200AD that brewed drinks were a safer alternative to many existing water sources, or for the infirm.
So, in other words either extreme is false: some water was seen as safe, other water was seen as dangerous, and beer/wine were seen as a safe fallback if you couldn't access clean water, and was said to be just better all round than water if you were ill or weak.
Will there be immigrants or dwarfs that are or choose to be priests, preaching to the people in your temple? How about barmaids/bartenders and wenches?
Of all the places in life I don't want to go, I think I don't want to go to a dwarven strip club the most.
Can an imprisoned creature be forced to perform (with obvious risk to the health of the holder if said creature should try to misbehave)? If so would this include adventure mode, where a creature you take could be forced to perform, or, if you're taken prisoner, could you be forced to perform?
Of all the places in life I don't want to go, I think I don't want to go to a dwarven strip club the most.What about when the game generator comes up with strip poker?
The game already has ethics for slavery and torture, and since these are things that dwarves don't do they're likely to be pretty far down the priority list.Of all the places in life I don't want to go, I think I don't want to go to a dwarven strip club the most.
With cages, dumping, and chains, it could easily be done. Which brings me to a question, Can an imprisoned creature be forced to perform (with obvious risk to the health of the holder if said creature should try to misbehave)? If so would this include adventure mode, where a creature you take could be forced to perform, or, if you're taken prisoner, could you be forced to perform? Also, would this potentially be outlawed or endorced by certain groups/monarchs/deities?
I would expect this act to anger thetree-huggerscannibalsElves, potentially drawing them to war... leading to more prisoners.
It's a rather dark topic, but this is also a forum with threads like Dwarven Day Care and Merfolk farming.
Will there be immigrants or dwarfs that are or choose to be priests, preaching to the people in your temple?
We're not doing much with temples until later, but for this release devout dwarves will be able to pray in them (fulfilling their spiritual needs).It sounds like for now, nothing of the sort happens. As for the eventual future, religious sects are specifically discussed under Fortress Subgroups in dev.html, so they're going to use that system, whatever it winds up being. We can presume priests will be the big players of those groups, and will do some manner of preaching, though perhaps Toady can elaborate further on this.
If we have wenches, can we also have... male wenches? Whatever the male equivalent of a wench is.
[BODY_SIZE:0:0:3000]
[BODY_SIZE:1:168:15000]
[BODY_SIZE:12:0:60000]
but the data structure for dwarves has the sizes as 300, 1500, and 6000.reactions can now be categorized within shop menus and they can provide information during job selection to stop it all from being overwhelming.
How do procedurally-generated buildable instruments work? Is there a new [buildable] "token" in the generated raws, or are there additional buildings for each large instrument?I would expect it to work like furniture. I assume that it should be accessible to modders either way - either it's an instrument token, or it's a new buildable item type looking a lot like instruments.
If it is a token, will modders have access?
Did i get that right that subassemblies of an instrument have now theyr own material, thus we get a alder violine with steel strings? If so can those decoration-like subassemblies be raw-defined for objects and could we then add properties to them? This would be interresting for multimaterial weapons, making for example wooden spears with steel tips possible or giving obsidian swords propper wooden handles.Yes, at least strings will have their own materials. I'd assume drum skins and such as well. It's most likely that
some large instruments placed as little buildingsI'm pretty sure this is outside the scope of this release, but imagine if they were built much larger. Like, if you could build a pipe organ in Dwarf Fortress, and place a console the same way you'd construct furniture but then you need to build windboxes (out of like twenty pipes and I guess some wood or something) and link them, and you'd need to link bellows and either have a dwarf man them or link them to a waterwheel somewhere, and actually make something really cool with the mechanism system to have pipes providing your dwarves with music from a legendary organist all over your fortress.
I have a single, open question. Why randomly generated instruments? I get it's an experiment, and people do want them too, I get randomly made creatures, demons and even plants yeah, but.... I don't really get the need of randomly made instruments, hopefully it won't be too confusing to learn what a "fiblergausth" is, how it looks and how it's supposed to be played or what it sounds like.The general philosophy for the game is that everything should have random elements, to enhance replayability. For instruments, I think you're overestimating the degree of variation. More likely we're going to see something like the twelve-stringed long-necked Dog Lute from the Confederation of Apples. Minor variations on a template, in other words. And having local flavors of instruments, just like having local flavors of poetic forms, helps enhance the color and interest of your world.
Sorry if I stride you as close minded.
Yeah, it's pretty unlikely that you'll see what amounts to nonsense words. They'll likely be named in a similar way to the random items that already exist for the vault dwellers with their sheer skirts and barbed axes. Rather than a nokzamtalin as it would be named dwarven language, you'd get a battle drum for instance. Perhaps once item descriptions are in, the nokzamtalin could become possible, but until then, the names will probably remain in English words.I have a single, open question. Why randomly generated instruments? I get it's an experiment, and people do want them too, I get randomly made creatures, demons and even plants yeah, but.... I don't really get the need of randomly made instruments, hopefully it won't be too confusing to learn what a "fiblergausth" is, how it looks and how it's supposed to be played or what it sounds like.The general philosophy for the game is that everything should have random elements, to enhance replayability. For instruments, I think you're overestimating the degree of variation. More likely we're going to see something like the twelve-stringed long-necked Dog Lute from the Confederation of Apples. Minor variations on a template, in other words. And having local flavors of instruments, just like having local flavors of poetic forms, helps enhance the color and interest of your world.
Sorry if I stride you as close minded.
Why randomly generated instruments?
...Additionally, most actual historical instruments have strange names and stranger sounds to modern players, to the point that in a listing of dulcian, krumhorn, launedda, fiblergausth, swarabat, tiexianzai, charango, grajabpi... does your invented "fiblergausth" look any stranger?...
...Additionally, most actual historical instruments have strange names and stranger sounds to modern players, to the point that in a listing of dulcian, krumhorn, launedda, fiblergausth, swarabat, tiexianzai, charango, grajabpi... does your invented "fiblergausth" look any stranger?...
Now I mostly agree with you. However, most instruments have names similar to what they sound like, to the point where they could be considered onomatopoeia. It would be hard to replicate that with procedural generation, and there could be some mental disconnect between name and function.
Wait, this time next year we could have a dorf get an urge to make something awesome, run off and gather some wood, wires, a few pieces of metal, and a couple of gems... then turn them into a frickin' lightning-shooting literally "electric" guitartifact, which could then end up becoming the holy item for a church of rock?Shooting lightning seems like an odd choice for an instrument, I wouldn't say it's something that's certainly in. Becoming a holy item of a church is also not something that's been talked about – sure, the potential is there, but it would have to be in fortress start scenarios and it would be pretty incidental to the point of that release. In the (fairly unlikely, in my opinion) even that Toady does go off that far on tangents, it definitely won't be done by a year from now.
Amazing.
If you need to have learned (or at least heard) a music style, or poetical style, before using it-- how are new styles generated? Would a new type of strange mood create a style, or are they only created on day one of worldgen?Toady's been talking as though they're wholly culturally-based in origin, so day 1 seems more likely. A strange mood for a poet seems way more awesome though, especialy if his legendary skill is in the use of his new form of poetry. A god giving poetry to mortals, Odin-style, would also be cool.
*-+Well, lightning was just what I went with for the electric guitar part, and I figure dorfs can worship megabeasts that kill their families, why not an awesome rock guitar, right?Wait, this time next year we could have a dorf get an urge to make something awesome, run off and gather some wood, wires, a few pieces of metal, and a couple of gems... then turn them into a frickin' lightning-shooting literally "electric" guitartifact, which could then end up becoming the holy item for a church of rock?Shooting lightning seems like an odd choice for an instrument, I wouldn't say it's something that's certainly in. Becoming a holy item of a church is also not something that's been talked about – sure, the potential is there, but it would have to be in fortress start scenarios and it would be pretty incidental to the point of that release. In the (fairly unlikely, in my opinion) even that Toady does go off that far on tangents, it definitely won't be done by a year from now.
Amazing.
That's more a DFTalk question, I think, since actual lust isn't quite a thing yet AFAIK (no out-of-wedlock intercourse... and for that matter, no intercourse at all)
with the upcoming addition of taverns and the recent addition of both sexual preferences and lust propensity what are your thoughts on one of worlds oldest professions, prostitution? as taverns and bars where being used as makeshift brothels for centuries and some evidence's that temples to fertility goddesses had sacred prostitution as far back as 1800BCE.
Speaking of cheap tricks, were people turned off because Ultima (7?) had prostitutes? Ultima 7p2 had a nude lesbian scene. That kind of thing doesn't bother me. I'm not sure what I think about dwarven prostitutes though, or even dwarven marriage. Both genders seem like a bunch of heavy drinking workaholics, though they do share beds with their spouses (and their pets). The dwarves I'm portraying aren't "slightly stupid" in a general sense, as they are very talented artisans and engineers -- this mechanical/crafting bent pulls them away from the common man analogy. They are also emotionally unbalanced and strangely attracted to lava flows, though.
I think since then, though, Toady has become more conscious of potential scandal. He did remove crass words from the game's dictionaries, for example. And even there, he's thinking it's not a thing for dwarves which would make it unlikely in dwarven taverns.
Is there any plan to fix some of the issues of egg-laying civilizations? plz. for kobolds.
I think since then, though, Toady has become more conscious of potential scandal. He did remove crass words from the game's dictionaries, for example. And even there, he's thinking it's not a thing for dwarves which would make it unlikely in dwarven taverns.
Very old quote from a thread on this subject
I feel the same. But the game is Toady's livelihood, we can hardly fault him for being inclined towards caution.I think since then, though, Toady has become more conscious of potential scandal. He did remove crass words from the game's dictionaries, for example. And even there, he's thinking it's not a thing for dwarves which would make it unlikely in dwarven taverns.the potential scandal is a non-issue in my mind
with the upcoming addition of taverns and the recent addition of both sexual preferences and lust propensity what are your thoughts on one of worlds oldest professions, prostitution? as taverns and bars where being used as makeshift brothels for centuries and some evidence's that temples to fertility goddesses had sacred prostitution as far back as 1800BCE.
Very old quote from a thread on this subject:Speaking of cheap tricks, were people turned off because Ultima (7?) had prostitutes? Ultima 7p2 had a nude lesbian scene. That kind of thing doesn't bother me.
-snip-
Anyway, with multiracial forts coming into play for the next release, will it be possible to define multiracial entities as well?
Anyway, with multiracial forts coming into play for the next release, will it be possible to define multiracial entities as well?
With the possibility of multiracial entities being added in the near future,will it be possible to have interracial marriages between 2 different races and maybe some sort of hybridization as well?(half-elves and half-goblins?)
Threetoe:
Okay, so the last question: 'I was reading the suggestion thread on interspecies breeding the other day, and I was hoping that you could discuss the notion of extending the breeding system to include such things as hybrids to a greater extent, primarily half-breeds among the sapient beings like elves, humans, dwarves, etc., and all the possible fun that arises from that, aside from stuff like discrimination, ethnic cleansing and increased interracial tensions, a more diverse and less static set of races populating the world would no doubt contribute to the richness of the game.'
Toady:
Yeah, I mean we're for it. The snatcher story, for instance, had an elf-goblin hybrid which didn't even have a human component to it.
Threetoe: Yeah, I've written a few stories about this. We definitely want to entertain these possibilities.
Toady:
Basically, we would have done it already, it's just a matter of overcoming some technical challenges. Do you just create new raws for all of the half forms? Then what happens if there are quarter forms and so on, or if you have one part elf, human, dwarf and goblin? Does it try and average the raws or come up with a one-to-one correspondence between the different body parts? It's kind of like the polymorph problem where you turn into another humanoid and right now your equipment just drops on the ground, even though the werewolf could theoretically hold things and wear things that were stretchy enough, or something, or just stayed on, like a little hat. It doesn't know how to do that, or transfer wounds, for that matter. Once we understand how that works, which is an easier problem than coming up with a mixture of creatures, then there's also the centaur problem, of taking pieces of creatures and gluing them onto each other; taking the top half of a person and gluing them onto most of a horse, except for the head. These are all easier problems than trying to procedurally just come up with the child of two creatures, but it's still an intriguing problem. So I'm not sure I'd just jump in and be, like, here's the half and two-halves breeding can just do a Mendelian genetics type thing, and sometimes they're a whole, sometimes it's one race or another, sometimes it produces another half, like half-elf/half-goblin. It could work that way, but it would be interesting to be able to get something more smeared, but it's difficult. That's part of the reason it hasn't happened yet; it's an intriguing and difficult problem.
Night creatures kidnapping other creatures is different, since they do not produce any offspring.They do mate and produce offspring. Sometimes you find quite large families of them.
Cross breeds between species (calling them "races" is somewhat inappropriate, since races have no problem breeding with each other) exist on Earth as well (mules are an obvious example, and cross breeding would allow mules to be born in DF). However, they are infertile.
It's still different, since they convert the kidnapped into their own species before mating.
How are things looking regarding save compatibility? I'm guessing it's at least tricky to inject the new stuff into existing saves.Major releases of DF never are save-compatibile. And making it so would be horrible waste of time. In this case "it is alpha!" excuse actually works.
0.21, 0.22, and 0.23 were save-compatible, as were 0.27 and 0.28.How are things looking regarding save compatibility? I'm guessing it's at least tricky to inject the new stuff into existing saves.Major releases of DF never are save-compatibile. And making it so would be horrible waste of time. In this case "it is alpha!" excuse actually works.
Interesting, didn't knew that (I get to knew DF from 40d). Anyway I somehow doubt it will repeat ever, especially with change in versioning number system.0.21, 0.22, and 0.23 were save-compatible, as were 0.27 and 0.28.How are things looking regarding save compatibility? I'm guessing it's at least tricky to inject the new stuff into existing saves.Major releases of DF never are save-compatibile. And making it so would be horrible waste of time. In this case "it is alpha!" excuse actually works.
[T_WORD:DATE_VERB:rusama]
[TRANSLATION:TROLL]
[VERB_PRESENT:o:i:u:u:a:n] first person singular, first person plural, second singular, second plural, third singular, third plural
[VERB_PAST:o:i:u:u:a:n] troll words all have exactly 6 letters. I figure this is a good example mostly to show the difficulty, heh.
[VERB_FUTURE:o:i:u:u:a:n] Same for all tenses because I'm lazy and, again, six letters.
[VERB_PARTICIPLE:e:t] past participle, present participle; but then, the game already has this.
Second, we need our verb. [T_WORD:DATE_VERB:rusam:REGULAR] what kind of language would this be without irregular verbs? Some sort of conlang?... wait a minute
[SYLLABLES_PRESENT:roo-sah-moh:roo-sah-mee:roo-sah-moo:roo-sah-moo:roo-sah-mah:roo-sah-min] I guess it'll just assume that identical syllables will rhyme in this system.
[SYLLABLES_PAST:roo-sah-moh:roo-sah-mee:roo-sah-moo:roo-sah-moo:roo-sah-mah:roo-sah-min] I mean, this is obviously a dumb way to go about it, but whatever, silly example.
[SYLLABLES_FUTURE:roo-sah-moh:roo-sah-mee:roo-sah-moo:roo-sah-moo:roo-sah-mah:roo-sah-min]
[SYLLABLES_PARTICIPLE:roo-sah-may:roo-sahmt]
Can i dare to hope that Dwarf fortress procedurally generates and plays "midi"-files with songs the various cultures have writen?Surely you're not expecting anything other than a "No" here?
The dwarven "language" isn't, having only a few random words, no grammar, and no words for things that dwarves encounter every day. A whole RAWS system for grammar and more words could be given by modders to Toady and implemented if he cannot be bothered to do it."cannot be bothered to do it"? Where did you get that idea? Toady plans to do a large language overhaul, it just isn't happening anytime soon.
Can i dare to hope that Dwarf fortress procedurally generates and plays "midi"-files with songs the various cultures have writen?Surely you're not expecting anything other than a "No" here?
A poetic riddle intended to complain about someone recently deceased, originating in The Amber Relic. The poem is two to three couplets. Forms of parallelism are common throughout the poem, in that certain lines often share an underlying meaning and they sometimes have reversed word orders. The ending of every line of the poem rhymes with every other. The second line of each couplet presents a different view of the subject of the first line. The first line has six syllables. The second line has ten syllables.
There are several problems to work out (sometimes it demanded some specific hundreds of thousands of stanzas).
QuoteA poetic riddle intended to complain about someone recently deceased, originating in The Amber Relic. ...
An entire poetic form about complaining in riddles about the recently dead? Now there's an interesting cultural clue...
Will poetry include profanities, ridicule, and erotic themes?There are several forms that are ribald (vulgar, sexual) in nature, a few that satirize or complain about a subject, and one that praises a lover (and also is ribald). It seems that's reasonably well-covered, though I guess there's always the potential to add more.
These descriptions are awesome. I love the comments on stanza, metre, syllabic counts, and the other technical poetic structure/form detail. It's impressive how varied the styles get. Generator has a surprising love of tercets and assonance. So many speak stanzas in the style the serpent.I read that as AAAAAAAAAAA.
"The ending of every line of the poem rhymes with every other." - Does this mean it's using an alternating rhyme scheme or more: ABCBDBEB etc?
These descriptions are awesome. I love the comments on stanza, metre, syllabic counts, and the other technical poetic structure/form detail. It's impressive how varied the styles get. Generator has a surprising love of tercets and assonance. So many speak stanzas in the style the serpent.I read that as AAAAAAAAAAA.
"The ending of every line of the poem rhymes with every other." - Does this mean it's using an alternating rhyme scheme or more: ABCBDBEB etc?
These descriptions are awesome. I love the comments on stanza, metre, syllabic counts, and the other technical poetic structure/form detail. It's impressive how varied the styles get. Generator has a surprising love of tercets and assonance. So many speak stanzas in the style the serpent.I read that as AAAAAAAAAAA.
"The ending of every line of the poem rhymes with every other." - Does this mean it's using an alternating rhyme scheme or more: ABCBDBEB etc?
These descriptions are awesome. I love the comments on stanza, metre, syllabic counts, and the other technical poetic structure/form detail. It's impressive how varied the styles get. Generator has a surprising love of tercets and assonance. So many speak stanzas in the style the serpent.I read that as AAAAAAAAAAA.
"The ending of every line of the poem rhymes with every other." - Does this mean it's using an alternating rhyme scheme or more: ABCBDBEB etc?
"Every other" means like ABABAB
(monorhymes are much less common now, and I've changed the monorhyme wording to "The ending of every line of the poem shares the same rhyme.")Yes, we should save our AAAAAAAAAAA's for screams of terror when our dwarves come up against opponents for which they are woefully unprepared.
I interpreted the "some specific hundreds of thousands of stanzas" problem to mean like a form that requires exactly 314159 stanzas of 26 lines each or something.
I interpreted the "some specific hundreds of thousands of stanzas" problem to mean like a form that requires exactly 314159 stanzas of 26 lines each or something."But I tell you what the Queen wants is impossible. The story of her mandate to create floodgates in our desert fortress cannot be told in less than 314160 stanzas! Art bows not to any dwarf!"
New sigquote.I interpreted the "some specific hundreds of thousands of stanzas" problem to mean like a form that requires exactly 314159 stanzas of 26 lines each or something."But I tell you what the Queen wants is impossible. The story of her mandate to create floodgates in our desert fortress cannot be told in less than 314160 stanzas! Art bows not to any dwarf!"
-snip-
( music, like rock-offs or the dixie style of dueling banjos and whatnot) seems like really great fodder for interesting stories.
The demon went down to Bur-Cabor the Trees of Pitch, he was looking for a soul to steal.-snip-
( music, like rock-offs or the dixie style of dueling banjos and whatnot) seems like really great fodder for interesting stories.
I must agree, especially considering how frequent musical challenges are in some mythologies.
Currently there are many materials, reactions and nearly all workshops hardcoded. The glass industry might be a good example. Are there any plans to un-hardcode some of those? Also any plans to enable multi-level workshops for modding? I mean by that to be able to mod in a workship with a multi-level-structure similar to the metalsmith forge, where you first select a material (Iron, Steel, ...), then a category (weapon, armour, ...) and finally a product (short sword, axe, ...).
reactions can now be categorized within shop menus and they can provide information during job selection to stop it all from being overwhelming.
Will banquets be an aspect of the new entertainment system? When agriculture is given a new look, will there be a harvest feast? What about religious banquets?So far we've heard nothing that says that feasts and banquets are part of the tavern updates, but the old dev page (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_single.html) mentioned them for the better parties bloat, so if they aren't part of the tavern updates, they should come into play some time:
Bloat92, BETTER PARTIES, (Future): Official and commemorative parties. If it is a party for a unit, they can invite friends and family. If it is an official party, it can start from the top nobles and go down. There can be organized feasts and so on.
Man has it been ages since I bothered to log in :(
Anyway I came with purpose:
Is there any intent at this point to integrate elements of the poetic form generator with the music generator for lyrical styles when voice is called for in the song format?
Quote from: smjjamesWill they also sing along to the music? You know, like drinking songs, or just folksy songs, or even bard songs.
Yeah, singing. It's going to be tied to the poetic forms as well.
Are there any plans for a music audio synthesizer, so we can press a button and hear a generated song in-game? Or be able to see the individual notes of the song? Or are songs not that in-depth?Just like poems, songs are not going to be that in-depth. It'd be even harder to get them right.
Yeah, in hindsight that did seem kind of a ridiculous expectation.Are there any plans for a music audio synthesizer, so we can press a button and hear a generated song in-game? Or be able to see the individual notes of the song? Or are songs not that in-depth?Just like poems, songs are not going to be that in-depth. It'd be even harder to get them right.
And there is still the manual option of breaking out the ol' acoustic guitar and letting out some chords to generate the song being outlined as well. Honestly that sounds like a fun meta-game in itself to me. :)
And there is still the manual option of breaking out the ol' acoustic guitar and letting out some chords to generate the song being outlined as well. Honestly that sounds like a fun meta-game in itself to me. :)
I look forward to hearing people's take on the various songs!
Well there are some autocomposing (List on wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algorithmic_composition#Software)) programs out there (maybe even libraries?) so if we can export the descriptions and a bit of context one could maybe use a 3rd party program to generate the songs and then reimport them to soundsense.Oh, so that's what pouring magma onto kittens sounds like!
And here are some of the musical forms from a medium world
somewhat useful part of the game.
Quotesomewhat useful part of the game.
Well, does the name of the necromancer books or the region you visit, or the color, length of hair and scratching nose and name of the dwarves is important ?
save the king or something.
Toady has stated before that languages are not his speciality and he may want to delegate them to somebody in the community who is better with such things. If this is in the next release, he may want to look to modders to help him with language raws.
A devotional form of music directed toward the worship of Nokor Bonehell the Fate of Witches originating in The Glaze of Belts. The rules of the form are applied by composers of individual songs. The music is played on a tangath and a nish. It is performed in the agek rhythm.
The tangath always does the main melody, should be graceful and glides from note to note.
The nish always does the main melody and should be made sweetly.
The form has a well-defined multi-passage structure: a brief introduction and a brief theme and a brief series of variations on the theme possibly all repeated.
The introduction accelerates as it proceeds, and it is to become softer and softer. The passage is performed using the bemong scale.
The theme is slow, and it is to be very soft. The passage is performed using the bemong scale.
The series of variations slows and broadens, and it is to become softer and softer. The passage is performed using the berim scale.
Scales are conceived of as two chords built using a division of the perfect fourth interval into eight notes. The tonic note is fixed only at the time of performance.
As always, the bemong heptatonic scale is thought of as two disjoint chords drawn from the fundamental division of the perfect fourth. These chords are named anam and izeg.
The anam tetrachord is the 1st, the 3rd, the 5th and the 8th degrees of the fundamental perfect fourth division.
The izeg tetrachord is the 1st, the 4th, the 7th and the 8th degrees of the fundamental perfect fourth division.
As always, the berim heptatonic scale is thought of as two disjoint chords drawn from the fundamental division of the perfect fourth. These chords are named mabdug and izeg.
The mabdug tetrachord is the 1st, the 2nd, the 5th and the 8th degrees of the fundamental perfect fourth division.
The agek rhythm is a single line with thirty-two beats divided into four bars in a 8-8-8-8 pattern. The beats are named ucat (spoken uc), ngarak (nga), enir (en), ugath (ug), lisig (li), etag (et), erong (er) and osed (os). The beat is stressed as follows:
| - x x - X - - - | x - - x x ! x - | X x x - x - - - | - X x - x - x - |
where ! marks the primary accent, X marks an accented beat, x is a beat, - is silent and | indicates a bar.
Yep, these details are complete, utter overkill. Ah well.
really funny part of all this is how people have been gushing for days about how cool it would be to use the music descriptions to auto-generate DF music with software or by hand... Then Toady gives us descriptions with exactly the amount and type of information that would needed to actually start to be able to do it - and people complain about "too much detail".
So I think it needs MORE details... some we can use.
I think that Man in Zero G's point was that these details would allow a piece of software to generate random songs that a human would recognize as being the same style. Now, whether it's meaningful to a typical human player is a different matter. If a player only wants to scan the first few lines of a description for a broad overview, then just don't scroll down.really funny part of all this is how people have been gushing for days about how cool it would be to use the music descriptions to auto-generate DF music with software or by hand... Then Toady gives us descriptions with exactly the amount and type of information that would needed to actually start to be able to do it - and people complain about "too much detail".
For me it isn't about "Too much detail"
It is about no details I can use. I can certainly describe genres of music, songs, instruments, poems, or types of poems... but by far that is not QUITE how I would describe them unless I was writing an essay.
So I think it needs MORE details... some we can use.
I think that Man in Zero G's point was that these details would allow a piece of software to generate random songs that a human would recognize as being the same style.
The music is played on a tangath and a nish. It is performed in the agek rhythm.
The really funny part of all this is how people have been gushing for days about how cool it would be to use the music descriptions to auto-generate DF music with software or by hand... Then Toady gives us descriptions with exactly the amount and type of information that would needed to actually start to be able to do it - and people complain about "too much detail".
And perhaps one day Dwarf Fortress itself will be able to generate .midis from these details. Gotta plan ahead for these things.
Complexity is only good if it is meaningful. If it is only complexity for complexity's sake, and not for gameplay's/story's sake, it becomes a chore.Agreed 100% , when it serves the storytelling, it's great, when it's not, it's just overkill for complexity sake.
* This is probably in progress, but a quick reminder note of what general type of instrument each is would be good. Even the very basic info ("reed aerophone") would give a starting idea, and a bit more detail would be good (e.g. "conical bore double-reed aerophone in an upper register" would let us go "well, it's sort of vaguely oboe-ish".)Yeah, Toady specifically notes that the instruments will be described in the forms in the final version of the descriptions, and that more general instrument requirements (I guess in the form of "a metallic wind instrument") will become possible as well.
* Similarly, "common folk" songs should probably dial back on the ornaments a bit. We're getting a lot of trills, grace notes, arpeggios, etc. for someone who's not a professional opera singer equivalent.I'm guessing that's where the note comes into play that Toady only took one musical form from each civilization, and that some forms of civilizations are closer to the Bald Vessel form in complexity.
Point of order, they aren't the same people.Didn't mean to imply that they were, it was meant as further illustration of my point: What's important to some players is not to others. The technical parts are important to the people who want to try to actually make this music, but not to the people who don't care about it.
I enjoyed figuring out the cross-rhythms/polyrhythms (I'm a huge Captain Beefheart fan).
But I can't wrap my head around the unusual scale systems (like dividing the octave into 24 notes and then building random tetrachords). It comes dangerously close to being"grey goop" for me. Or intriguingly alien but ultimately samey goop. Adding some familiar scales/modes to the mix would make the random scale systems more interesting to me.. Just like forgotten beasts seem more special in a world where theres also ordinary bears, cats and capybaras etc.
The uto hexatonic scale is thought of as two disjoint chords spanning two perfect fourths. These chords are named ngub and ozse.
The ngub trichord is the 1st, the 5th and the 6th degrees of the semitone octave scale.
The ozse tetrachord is the 8th, the 10th, the 11th and the 13th (completing the octave) degrees of the semitone octave scale.
Quote from: Urist McGoombaBrotherAny plans to extend the 256 ASCII-Tiles in the future? Probably to 512 or even unlimited tiles for optical differences. As there are so many tiles having multi-uses, it is quite confusing sometimes. I am not referring to adding graphics, just implementing other tiles not included in the ASCII e.g. horizontal brackets/letters or something like that. Same regarding colours. Any plans to increase them from 16 to e.g. 256 colours or even 24-bit? Some parts of the code like the color-definiton tokens seem to support them already. Or will that cause major recoding?
...
I am not referring to graphics, which for sure will cause major and long time dedicated work. Just extending it from 256 tiles to some more. Additional tiles could be derived from e.g. UNICODE. I am no specialist regarding copyright. But as most of the UNICODE-tiles are from various recent/historic alphabets, I can't believe they are more restricted than ASCII.Quote from: lethosorBesides, moving to Unicode would require rewriting a large portion of the display code that relies on 8-bit display tiles.
If temples are affected by material wealth within its zones and number of worshippers will there be a chance for positive blessings such as attribute/skill boost? Or is this related to artifacts? Also will dieties bless the fort with materilas/objects such as the procedurally genereated ones, will certain deities be more likely to gift certain materials eg. god of gems gives some rare gems?
You mentioned that we might get the occasional Human elf or goblin on our doorsteps, will your fort be a possible destination for refugees?
QuoteThey walk over the land on a path avoiding waterDoes this mean that (invaders) avoid rivers? If so, will they simply give up if the fort is surrounded by rivers, or will they just go right over?
Are temple effects on immigration on the table for the tavern release? What about pilgrimages? By immigration effects, I mean things like getting more worshippers of a certain god if you have a big temple to it, or more devout worshipers if you have awesome temples in general. It seems like it would be more crucial for start scenarios where making a temple to a god is your primary goal, but on the other hand it could be a relatively low-hanging fruit. Pilgrimages on the other hand, fit quite perfectly with the "temporary visitor" idea being dealt with in the tavern release, but if they're to be relic-oriented like medieval Christian pilgrimages, it might make more sense to wait until some more artifact stuff is done.
Will there ever be magical songs to control your enemies and bolster your allies ala D&D Bards?
Will military squad orders be updated along with the new justice system. For example, will the kill order be replaced with an attack order, where you can set the terms of engagement for your troops. The options would be something like, non-lethal, lethal, and no-quarter, so that you could target your own dwarfs without loyalty cascades and maybe attempt to capture invaders like goblins or kobolds. I was thinking being able to quell riots and beat dwarves would be fun along the lines of running a totalitarian fort.
Will there be prison zones, so you could have rooms designated for prisoners, like holding cells and cells. Would this be considered as part of the prison colony scenario? Will we be able to shackle, torture, and restrain prisoners based on civ ethics?
With the look into the multi tile critters and the pathfinding changes that will require, were there any thoughts on tackling other parts of the pathfinding that is a bit lackluster? Like flier pathfinding, or things like one way or grasp_required kinds of pathfinding that came up back when ropes for climbing was mentioned?
And second just in-case that first one does get thrown out. Will races without alcohol_dependent eventually take offence when visiting your fortress if there is no water whatsoever available, or will they perfectly happy to drink mug after mug like water like our dwarves do?
With the advent of Taverns, will some people who come in be lone/small groups of merchants? Obviously if they start coming in force as soon as you declare a tavern zone, it would mean a constant supply of things for rock goods; but if they only came with enough export profit, it could balance.
With music and such, will some people sell services for goods. Like paying for a performance(s) with trinkets, or for a traveling weaponsmith to work for roughly 10% of what he makes (or some other agreed upon condition)? On that note, if you have a renowned legendary flute-dwarf, can you sell his services for goods?
I read earlier that music can increase the bravery of dwarves, assuming this is true, Will we be able to assign military music dwarves? So we can march in to the beat of the drum British style, or a flute Spartan style?
Now that we will have temples, will we got a way to commision art works of a certain theme in demand? To be able to make
appropiate engravings and statues, without depending of the whims of the rng?
Quote from: HephWill there be immigrants or dwarfs that are or choose to be priests, preaching to the people in your temple? How about barmaids/bartenders and wenches?Quote from: ButtonIf we have wenches, can we also have... male wenches? Whatever the male equivalent of a wench is.
Are there any plans to allow greater control over surface features in the raws - e.g. defining rock features, day/night cycles, light levels and other climatic conditions, and so forth? Roughly how far down the line might that be? For instance, will modders ever be able to make worlds in which it's always day or always night, there are no mountains, there's a ceiling instead of a sky, the world is divided into chambers, the sun is green, there are four moons, etc. etc.?
Will mugs get a non-trade use with the new taverns?
Will dwarves still drink from barrels?
relating to the talk of multi-tile creatures do you plan on changing how size influences combat such a giants attack hitting multiple dwarves and hitting their entire body or making it so a warhammer can't instantly cave in the entire skull of a massive creature.
(regarding body size)
Why did you decide to make the raws use a different scale in the text files than in the game?
(on reaction categories)
Is there finalized syntax for that yet, or will that have to wait?
How do procedurally-generated buildable instruments work? Is there a new [buildable] "token" in the generated raws, or are there additional buildings for each large instrument?
If it is a token, will modders have access?
Can we assign dwarves to play music or do they merry-make only by their own accord?
Did i get that right that subassemblies of an instrument have now theyr own material, thus we get a alder violine with steel strings? If so can those decoration-like subassemblies be raw-defined for objects and could we then add properties to them?
When, if ever, might pipe organs be on the table? Or are they just to ancillary? Would you want to wait for restructuring of the mechanism system before getting into transferal of air pressure, or what kind of things might hinder this?
If you need to have learned (or at least heard) a music style, or poetical style, before using it-- how are new styles generated? Would a new type of strange mood create a style, or are they only created on day one of worldgen?
with multiracial forts coming into play for the next release, will it be possible to define multiracial entities as well?
With the possibility of multiracial entities being added in the near future,will it be possible to have interracial marriages between 2 different races and maybe some sort of hybridization as well?(half-elves and half-goblins?)
How are things looking regarding save compatibility? I'm guessing it's at least tricky to inject the new stuff into existing saves.
You stated that the language RAWs don't have enough information yet to actually construct poetry at this time, like for stressed feet and whatnot. Any plans for putting in new RAW tags for this, even if you don't fill them in yourself? I'd bet the community would love to help with data-entry work like that. (that or someone might be able to write a program to generate the information based on rules)
Another major lack of information in the languages are words for local creatures-- it's weird that there can be no Dwarven words for creatures they encounter every day. That said, I understand that there might be... technical issues, given that modders can add new creatures (or take them away). Do you have any thoughts regarding how you might fix this in the future? For example, would the creature names go in the language file or the creature file?
So maybe if we remove all the fantasy stuff,add the economy system back again and hope that the culture stuff is not broken in the next update....maybe we could use DF to simulate real life stuff?Could DF be used to simulate real life worlds?
Who exactly made those poems and who is going to make new ones?Because every single book in our worlds is made by crazy necros in their towers and its weird that only necromancer towers can be used to store books.It would be nice to see libraries and non necromancer writers.
How are the fortress mode/adventure mode tavern activities going?I really want to be able to sing and play games with my living meat shields companions!
How much semi-random knowledge, on any number of topics, have you acquired over the years through having to research all these different subjects?
Is poetry and music going to stay within te current modern western paradigm? Or might we have things like freestyle, forms that blend poetry and music (like rap) or forms of oppositional poetry like flyting and rap battles?
Currently there are many materials, reactions and nearly all workshops hardcoded. The glass industry might be a good example. Are there any plans to un-hardcode some of those? Also any plans to enable multi-level workshops for modding?
Will banquets be an aspect of the new entertainment system?
DF Data structure question: Could you list what the 16 historical figure flags refer to? Based on work from the DFHack team we know that bit 3 flags a deity, 4 a force, and 8 a ghost. The rest are unknown but I've been doing some digging and I know that all the other bits are in use (except possibly 1, 2, and 5)
QuoteQuote from: Urist McGoombaBrotherAny plans to extend the 256 ASCII-Tiles in the future? Probably to 512 or even unlimited tiles for optical differences. As there are so many tiles having multi-uses, it is quite confusing sometimes. I am not referring to adding graphics, just implementing other tiles not included in the ASCII e.g. horizontal brackets/letters or something like that. Same regarding colours. Any plans to increase them from 16 to e.g. 256 colours or even 24-bit? Some parts of the code like the color-definiton tokens seem to support them already. Or will that cause major recoding?
...
I am not referring to graphics, which for sure will cause major and long time dedicated work. Just extending it from 256 tiles to some more. Additional tiles could be derived from e.g. UNICODE. I am no specialist regarding copyright. But as most of the UNICODE-tiles are from various recent/historic alphabets, I can't believe they are more restricted than ASCII.Quote from: lethosorBesides, moving to Unicode would require rewriting a large portion of the display code that relies on 8-bit display tiles.
Even a basic addition of another character page is not a rewrite I feel comfortable doing. The DF part is fine -- it'd take a while, but I could do the DF side of it once I knew what data to push where. However, I have no idea how to set up additional texture atlases while still keeping the speed up in OpenGL, assuming it wouldn't require a completely different approach, so I can't really start. It's way on the back burner for this reason. The game could probably use another thousand characters at this point to remove fundamental overlaps. That's potentially independent of the item graphics problem, though they both run into the texture atlas issue (if you want more than a few item pictures). Item pictures are also complicated by material considerations -- those aren't prohibitive, but take us into graphics territory that I don't want to get mired in.
Even a basic addition of another character page is not a rewrite I feel comfortable doing. The DF part is fine -- it'd take a while, but I could do the DF side of it once I knew what data to push where. However, I have no idea how to set up additional texture atlases while still keeping the speed up in OpenGL, assuming it wouldn't require a completely different approach, so I can't really start. It's way on the back burner for this reason. The game could probably use another thousand characters at this point to remove fundamental overlaps. That's potentially independent of the item graphics problem, though they both run into the texture atlas issue (if you want more than a few item pictures). Item pictures are also complicated by material considerations -- those aren't prohibitive, but take us into graphics territory that I don't want to get mired in.
I'm not sure what multi-level means. Like upgrades? Maybe I forgot to paste that in from the question. We'll probably get to the de-building-ification of workshops before we do anything like upgrades, which'll accomplish something similar through furniture.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Emphasis mine.Quote from: Putnam(on reaction categories)
Is there finalized syntax for that yet, or will that have to wait?
It's fixed assuming it doesn't get any more interesting. In any reaction's def, assign it to a category with [CATEGORY:<token>].
[CATEGORY:<token>]
[CATEGORY_NAME:<text>]
[CATEGORY_DESCRIPTION:<text>]
[CATEGORY_PARENT:<token>]
[CATEGORY_KEY:<key>]
The subtokens to define the category's details just need to appear below the CATEGORY somewhere once. The nesting can go as deeply as needed. It only shows reaction categories in the relevant workshops if your fort's entity has a permitted reaction within the category nesting, which will hopefully avoid some clutter in complicated mods. We'll have to see what else is necessary as we go. Things like material assignments linked to categories (to handle stuff like glass coming out into the raws) are elevated to "low-hanging fruit" status now, but aren't in the game.
Will we hear the music, or it will be just described as text?
Will we hear the music, or it will be just described as text?
I very much doubt it.
Wait a second...The latter, from Toady's wording:
For the reaction category syntax, is it like thisSpoiler (click to show/hide)
or like this?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's fixed assuming it doesn't get any more interesting. In any reaction's def, assign it to a category with [CATEGORY:<token>].So the category token goes into the reactions, and one of the reactions also includes the category details.
[CATEGORY:<token>]
[CATEGORY_NAME:<text>]
[CATEGORY_DESCRIPTION:<text>]
[CATEGORY_PARENT:<token>]
[CATEGORY_KEY:<key>]
The subtokens to define the category's details just need to appear below the CATEGORY somewhere once. The nesting can go as deeply as needed. It only shows reaction categories in the relevant workshops if your fort's entity has a permitted reaction within the category nesting, which will hopefully avoid some clutter in complicated mods. We'll have to see what else is necessary as we go. Things like material assignments linked to categories (to handle stuff like glass coming out into the raws) are elevated to "low-hanging fruit" status now, but aren't in the game.
Toady mentioned a "test myth generator" several times in this last reply, but I think this is the first time I've heard it mentioned. Does anybody remember it being mentioned elsewhere?He mentioned it a few times in the reply before this one as well. It's a generator he created for the upcoming Artifacts portion, presumably at first to give these artifacts some context, but apparently it evolved (if it didn't start there anyway) to include changes to how religions work, divine relationships, and things. I've tried to gather the quotes from that reply below.
If not, what kind of experiments are you doing with your test myth generator? Is it something that came up because of the addition of temples, or something that may end up being folded into starting scenarios? What kinds of myths are we talking about, and how crazy can the results get?
Quote from: NeonivekDoes the temples being fully developed suggest a possible use for the gods and more dynamics between the religions? Or when finished just be focused on individual temples and inside fortress dynamics?
and guiltishly doing two
Will religions be fleshed out in terms of how their tenants, outside spheres and the individual gods, work? Such as if they allow multiple god worship, accept new gods to the pantheon, and what they consider to be profane? I guess I don't really need a specific answer I guess what I mean is: Is there going to be more to religions outside the individual gods?
Oddly enough that is what I am really interested in because one of the things I found interested was the religion dynamics within the game. For example some wars or disagreements being made because of the worship of deities often within the same religion (Oddly often with gods of death... which makes sense 'fictional world' wise but not 'world history' wise) and I was just like "Is that god the evil god of this pantheon? or are they just fighting over godly supremacy".
Not for these tavern releases, but we'll be seeing two key pushes for religion with the artifact stuff and then with the start scenario stuff. There'll be a more coherent myth generation first, and then there'll be global religious concerns with the religious embark scenarios. The frameworks that come up there will also answer some of the questions about status and relationships within the religion in ways that can't be addressed now, and the test myth generator we've been working with goes well beyond individual gods.
The current religious disagreements involving gods are sphere-based I think, so it's mostly over some vague conceptual disagreement that sort of amounts to "evil god to my god". I don't recall if there are numeric penalties just from the god being a different god, though they do penalize non-belief. We'll have more information to work with there, though it's anybody's guess what gets focused on first once the frameworks are improved.Quote from: InariusIn relation to religion ,is any sort mythology generation (god X father of god Y, genealogy tree, relationships between gods like in most mythology or things like this) an idea you are working on, or will gods remain independant from each other ?
We've been toying around with a test generator and have quite a bit lined up now for the world gen artifact releases which will follow the tavern releases. All sorts of new stuff should make it in.Quote from: JapaWith the addition of temples, will religious festivals and observances ever come into play?
He he he, somebody already pointed out the "ever". But yeah, we're hoping to have those, and they're on the dev pages. We thought we were going to start with fairs as the first scheduled community events, but now I'm not sure. The myth stuff we do prior to the first artifact release might clarify it a bit, though it might not.Quote from: CaptainArchmageWith temples are we going to have new furniture (such as, altars)? Or will that be covered by existing furniture (like tables)?
It's still under consideration. It depends on how far we want to go into temples before we have the additional information which will be granted by the next two major cycles (world gen artifact myth stuff, and religious start scenario framework stuff).Quote from: MrLupenTailsCan we create our own custom deities through a noble or by using the temple? Will dwarves be able to change religion? Can we enforce punishment on heresy or blasphemy? Will some religions be more violent? Will some religions be more peaceful?
Edit: When I asked the last two questions, I was referring to world generation scenarios. It would suck if all religions seemed the same for each race.
We're not doing too much with it now, but things will be more interesting when we get embark scenarios with religious components. I don't expect all of the religions to be the same at that point. I'm not sure what you mean by custom deities.
These song descriptions are sodding great. Don't add anything to the gameplay?
The Elder Scrolls series has a hundred odd books that didn't add anything to the game. Still loved the fact they were there. Diablo II and III had a bunch of superfluous dialogue options/random bits of lore that gave backstory and info into the world and didn't add anything to the game. Still loved the fact they were there. The Lord of the Rings, Song of Ice and Fire, Warhammer, Snow Crash, Moby Dick, and thousands of other bits of media include other bits of 'fluff' that don't directly impact the main focus of the game/book/experience, but would make each thing more shallow if those bits of lore and fluff, etc, were missing.
Here's the fantastic thing about all of it: it's optional. It's not shoved into your face. You have to actively make an effort to go and look at it, and you can ignore it if you're not interested. And if you aren't that's fine. Not everyone read the pages and pages concerning who was wearing what suit made by which company in American Psycho. Not everyone read any of the books in the Elder Scrolls. Not everyone gave a damn about the pages upon pages of derail on whatever topic in Snow crash. The point is that some people were interested and did. This is why the Silmarillion, the World of Ice and Fire book, or the Black Library exists:
Because some like to delve deeper.
These song descriptions are sodding great. Don't add anything to the gameplay?
The Elder Scrolls series has a hundred odd books that didn't add anything to the game. Still loved the fact they were there. Diablo II and III had a bunch of superfluous dialogue options/random bits of lore that gave backstory and info into the world and didn't add anything to the game. Still loved the fact they were there. The Lord of the Rings, Song of Ice and Fire, Warhammer, Snow Crash, Moby Dick, and thousands of other bits of media include other bits of 'fluff' that don't directly impact the main focus of the game/book/experience, but would make each thing more shallow if those bits of lore and fluff, etc, were missing.
Here's the fantastic thing about all of it: it's optional. It's not shoved into your face. You have to actively make an effort to go and look at it, and you can ignore it if you're not interested. And if you aren't that's fine. Not everyone read the pages and pages concerning who was wearing what suit made by which company in American Psycho. Not everyone read any of the books in the Elder Scrolls. Not everyone gave a damn about the pages upon pages of derail on whatever topic in Snow crash. The point is that some people were interested and did. This is why the Silmarillion, the World of Ice and Fire book, or the Black Library exists:
Because some like to delve deeper.
I'm not complaining about the presence of fluff, every game needs some and Dwarf Fortress more than most other games. I'm complaining about the unnecessary complexity of it.
You alone, though you come again and again, can unmake him. Whether I allow it is within my wisdom. Go unarmed into his den with these words of power: AE GHARTOK PADHOME [CHIM] AE ALTADOON. Or do not. The temporal myth is man. Reach heaven by violence. This magic I give to you: the world you will rule is only an intermittent hope and you must be the letter written in uncertainty
When engravings and statues can be commissioned, will this extend to being able to demand poets and musicians compose pieces pertaining to specific HFs or events?
Sorry if this's already been asked or answered, I've not been watching development as closely as I want to.
-snip-
I'm not complaining about the presence of fluff, every game needs some and Dwarf Fortress more than most other games. I'm complaining about the unnecessary complexity of it.
And I read the books in Morrowind. It helps immersion and makes you feel things. Also, it's a book, in a game !
Second, have you considered allowing artifact mugs and musical instruments to be added to taverns as part of the décor, increasing the happiness of dwarves that see them in much the same way as levers can be admired?You ate a Cracker Barrel recently, didn't you? :)
Since there will be taverns, doesn't it mean there will be more units on the map? Is it possible to have more population related settings?
When population reach 100, my fps never goes beyond 30. So I'm afraid I won't be able to have monarches. It would be nice to remove some population limits like we can set pupulation caps now.
You can adjust that in the entity raws, y'know.I know, but editing raws will cause some complications, for example, when I want to install a new graphic pack.
Entity raws aren't edited by graphics, last I checked.Fine, I'll give it a try. But can I really have a king if I add a REQUIRES_POPULATION tag under monarch? Editing raws seems more difficult than editing d_init, and if I understand correctly, I have to generate a new world.
The obstacle isn't the multi-species fort stuff so much as the number of people for that one, which is more of a hill-dwarf problem. If I remember, the refugees can already choose your fort as a destination for camping next to, but they don't actually enter the fort. It'll probably be best to put that one off until we have the broader infrastructure in place for hill-dwarves (which are just a group of numerous associated critters living near the fort).
The music and poetry generation is incredibly exciting to me. I feel it opens up the framework for all sorts of memetic goodness!I would love to see distinct architectural styles enter the game. Many community challenges rely on employing specifically architectural styles and limitations, and having a cultural basis would be really interesting. I would love to have a fort where my dwarves preferred everything was constructed using sloped roofs and central pillars surrounded by statutes, or whatever gets generated. Even if that cultural preference didn't effect gameplay in any way, besides giving me an architectural style to work within.
I could easily foresee this applying to architectural styles, for example, to make culturally distinct building layouts and structural motifs generated by one culture that could also be spread to and modified by other cultures. Or, even more exciting, perhaps even combat styles, designs of tools, weapons, workshops, and other technology could be generated, and varied in style and function in a manner based on this as a foundation! Though I think this would have to be in a manner that factors in perceived needs, prerequisite knowledge (on the individual or population-wide, or higher level depending on level of abstraction), as well as economic, cultural, and other interconnected factors that are crucial in determining how and when inventions and discoveries come about. :D
The march report says that there's dancing styles too.
Combat styles seem exceedingly likely to be learned in a similar fashion, knowledge-wise, from previous statements.
Actually I have most of the code for handling the data structures that underlie the graphics functions written for a switch to a 65536 symbol base. It was something I was working on before Baughn kicked me out SDL project, however many years ago that was. I saw it was going to be necessary and started writing the parts that I could. If I recall correctly, Baughn's tileset code is wide open, calculating the number of tiles entirely from the tileset file and defined dimensions; of course being compiled with 32bit definitions sets 1 limit, and 64bit would set a different limit. Baughn was less particular about signing and sizing so the limit on number of tiles in the code he wrote should be around 2 billion. The speed in his code is largely dependent on the GPU and graphics card memory, I was never able to pick through all of it to optimize data handling. Even older graphics card should easily be able to handle 1024 symbol tilesets.Quote from: Urist McGoombaBrotherAny plans to extend the 256 ASCII-Tiles in the future? Probably to 512 or even unlimited tiles for optical differences. As there are so many tiles having multi-uses, it is quite confusing sometimes. I am not referring to adding graphics, just implementing other tiles not included in the ASCII e.g. horizontal brackets/letters or something like that. Same regarding colours. Any plans to increase them from 16 to e.g. 256 colours or even 24-bit? Some parts of the code like the color-definiton tokens seem to support them already. Or will that cause major recoding?
...
I am not referring to graphics, which for sure will cause major and long time dedicated work. Just extending it from 256 tiles to some more. Additional tiles could be derived from e.g. UNICODE. I am no specialist regarding copyright. But as most of the UNICODE-tiles are from various recent/historic alphabets, I can't believe they are more restricted than ASCII.Quote from: lethosorBesides, moving to Unicode would require rewriting a large portion of the display code that relies on 8-bit display tiles.
Even a basic addition of another character page is not a rewrite I feel comfortable doing. The DF part is fine -- it'd take a while, but I could do the DF side of it once I knew what data to push where. However, I have no idea how to set up additional texture atlases while still keeping the speed up in OpenGL, assuming it wouldn't require a completely different approach, so I can't really start. It's way on the back burner for this reason. The game could probably use another thousand characters at this point to remove fundamental overlaps. That's potentially independent of the item graphics problem, though they both run into the texture atlas issue (if you want more than a few item pictures). Item pictures are also complicated by material considerations -- those aren't prohibitive, but take us into graphics territory that I don't want to get mired in.
Now that the game is interlocking it's two modes more deep (taverns for adventurers anyone?), have you thought of making the time more standard, or have you ever thought on making fortress time as slow as adventure time?
Quote from: cybergonIs the way that time passes in fortress mode ever going to change? Or did you already put a ring on it?
I don't have any plans to change it. People like to see their dwarves grow up and so on, and I think you'd have to run the equivalent of a 144 year fort to see a baby turn into a child if you were running at adventure mode speeds. It's also difficult to support variable speeds. Nothing's permanent though.
Apologies if this has already been asked, but:
What's the timeframe for the current release? Will this one be another year+ in development or are we moving towards a more frequent cycle of updates?
Threetoe: Okay, after the first section, which is job priorities, then we move on to do dwarf fortress mode inns and taverns. Because we want to add something fun, so that we aren't just doing another giant release for the sake of everybody's sanity with their interface problems.
Toady: Yeah, the two-year release was really long, he he. And there was a lot of foundational work that was done. And we're trying to break this next one up. Well we always try, he he, but we're going to succeed this time! We're breaking this one up into some smaller fun stuff.
When will humans finally be able to steal dwarven steel making technology? We could do it by 1400, and we are very good at stealing ideas.
Quote from: MephansterasAre Elves going to have any preference/dislike for trading for metal? They can't really tell if it was made using charcoal or coke, and it's generally superior to what they can do natively, so could that be something effected by the ruler's preferences?
Also, will we eventually see other civs trying to trade for your metalworking secrets? A human king offering an alliance in exchange for you teaching some human smiths how to make steel, for example?
In the same way that they might no longer trade for clothing that doesn't fit, elves might reject metal weapons as a matter of entity definitions, but not as a matter of tree-cutting ethics. I guess if there's a ruler that can override the entity defs, then they'd buy metal. It probably won't happen now.
I haven't really thought about technology issues that much, but it would be reasonable to go into what the permitted jobs and reactions mean in the entity defs (whether it is a matter of knowledge or cultural preferences for example). At that point it would definitely be fair to pass the information around as a game mechanic, even if your dwarves don't look kindly upon it happening (I imagine that would be the norm).
With the new poetry, is there a specific artifact that peots can make? Such as a great peom that inspires bravery?Since that borders on magic, and would require some changes for moods, that's pretty unlikely.
Is this specifying "positive" because of curses like the worldgen ones or?Quote from: ManzeenanIf temples are affected by material wealth within its zones and number of worshippers will there be a chance for positive blessings such as attribute/skill boost? Or is this related to artifacts? Also will dieties bless the fort with materilas/objects such as the procedurally genereated ones, will certain deities be more likely to gift certain materials eg. god of gems gives some rare gems?
I don't have a specific positive effects plan in place right now. It's kind of lumped in with magic.
I didn't really mean specific details of given forms. The latter two questions were meant to elaborate upon the first. Rap came up twice because it's a very good example that a lot of people are familiar with of something that contains significant elements of poetry but which isn't often called that, especially outside of academia.Quote from: CruxadorIs poetry and music going to stay within te current modern western paradigm? Or might we have things like freestyle, forms that blend poetry and music (like rap) or forms of oppositional poetry like flyting and rap battles?
With the new poetry, is there a specific artifact that peots can make? Such as a great peom that inspires bravery?Since that borders on magic, and would require some changes for moods, that's pretty unlikely.
Also, Cruxador's twelve-stringed long-necked dog lute from earlier in the thread almost makes an appearance. ;D
Toady, is Needlegrass intended to be Achnatherum, Aristida, Stipa, or another genus?Maybe it's none of those and it's just a literal name like feather trees.
You mean a "peom" written by urist. Who is a "peot". I'm sorry... I can't get over that amusing mispelling. It made me giggle. Peot.
I got question about internal workings in following scenario:
I'm about to embark and give my group of dwarves name of "Ninurcerol, The Escorted Lenses". I play the game and fortress comes to end, either retired or abandoned. Then I embark into another fortress with same civilization as previous one and give this group of dwarves same name; "Ninurcerol, The Escorted Lenses".
Now what does DF think about this? Will it consider this group to be same as previous one or will it be new group who just happens to have same name? I kinda want to have world-wide organization going around building things...
I know nothing stops me from doing it anyway, but it would be nice to know my groups have actual connection beyond just having same name.
As a programmer I agree with your assesment. DF does already lots of great things, so I'm hoping it would do such simple check.I got question about internal workings in following scenario:
I'm about to embark and give my group of dwarves name of "Ninurcerol, The Escorted Lenses". I play the game and fortress comes to end, either retired or abandoned. Then I embark into another fortress with same civilization as previous one and give this group of dwarves same name; "Ninurcerol, The Escorted Lenses".
Now what does DF think about this? Will it consider this group to be same as previous one or will it be new group who just happens to have same name? I kinda want to have world-wide organization going around building things...
I know nothing stops me from doing it anyway, but it would be nice to know my groups have actual connection beyond just having same name.
As a programmer, I can say that I'm 99.99% sure it's just a new group who happens to have same name.
A solo celebration dance originating in The Slick Rampart...This is making me wonder...
From the new dance forms:QuoteA solo celebration dance originating in The Slick Rampart...This is making me wonder...
Will dwarven dancing be restricted to taverns? Or could extremely happy dwarves (such as those just completing an artifact or realizing a life goal) spontaneously break out into dance to celebrate?
It's not even a check, each group has a unique ID. The name is not used for identification at all.Naturally, but will the ID be the same or not?
The dwarves will actually dance during play following the rules of the dance styles? (solo dances vs group dances and so on). How do you think in displaying them, and how will be displayed the music being performed?My guess is that there will some sort of flash tile to indicate dancing, because there's no way to draw the head movements and side-kicks in the current UI. I expect that dancing partners can occupy the same tile, what would be impressive is if the tile-to-tile movements actually related to the dance descriptions.
The dwarves will actually dance during play following the rules of the dance styles? (solo dances vs group dances and so on). How do you think in displaying them, and how will be displayed the music being performed?My guess is that there will some sort of flash tile to indicate dancing, because there's no way to draw the head movements and side-kicks in the current UI. I expect that dancing partners can occupy the same tile, what would be impressive is if the tile-to-tile movements actually related to the dance descriptions.
This whole thing is mostly just so dwarves can sing drinking songs. The poetry is going to link up with the dancing and the music and it’ll be able to describe what your dwarf is going when he’s moving left and to the right in the tavern and you’ll be like, ‘is this dwarf’s path-finding broken?’ and it’ll say he’s ‘dancing to the urist’ or whatever and you’ll say, ‘what’s that?’ and it’ll pop-up the five paragraphs that you always never knew you wanted about dwarven dance theory.
snip
Secondly: How do hostiles deal with music? If a Goblin army lays siege to your fort, and your tavern area happens to be throwing an amazing gig, are attackers in ear-shot likely to drop what they're doing and just start rocking out because the bard's got sick flute skills?That would be the best thing ever, defeating a siege with the power of rock!
What are your thoughts on putting real-life illicit/illegal drugs in the game? Specifically, I'm expanding the products made from the real-world plants, and I'm not sure whether it would be appropriate to add hemp buds and their associated syndrome.
forming teacher-student links,
Are there going to be any entity tokens to customize what types of art forms civilizations get? Like if I want dwarves to only make dances that are really slow, or elves to have mostly fast music. Is speed of music even part of the styles I haven't looked at the dance or music styles since they seemed really complicated. Anyway, there's probably things one might want to customize other than speed.Although, as most civs are at least a little multi-species these days, limiting art forms by species is a bit arbitrary. Culture influences come mostly from your upbringing. Toady's even made sure all the dances can be performed equally by Dwarves as well as cave spiders.
No, I mean in the entity. I'm not asking if you can make it physically impossible for goblins to do dwarf dances, I'm asking if you can make it so that certain civilizations make art forms of certain types more often. Like if you could make it so most dwarven poetry is quite long or that most dwarven dances are solo celebration dances. They'd still probably generate short poetry forms, but it'd be nice to be able to make certain types more common.Are there going to be any entity tokens to customize what types of art forms civilizations get? Like if I want dwarves to only make dances that are really slow, or elves to have mostly fast music. Is speed of music even part of the styles I haven't looked at the dance or music styles since they seemed really complicated. Anyway, there's probably things one might want to customize other than speed.Although, as most civs are at least a little multi-species these days, limiting art forms by species is a bit arbitrary. Culture influences come mostly from your upbringing. Toady's even made sure all the dances can be performed equally by Dwarves as well as cave spiders.
Why would a bunch of goblins who've lived all their lives amongst Dwarves suddenly start dancing to the latest Dark Pit beats?
Unless it were some kind of militant goblin independence thing. Hmm...
finished up the teacher-student links and decided to augment that with the formation of performance troupes that can gallivant about. You'll also see them in your forts when we get to that part. A group of goblin poets had the honor of making the very first one, and they decided to call themselves the Fungi of Hell. After fourty years, five of the original eight founding members had met violent ends (including one that ended up in an elf belly), and another had left to become a baron at a dwarf fort, but they were still going strong with new members, including some bards and dancers and poets-turned-bard and so on.
After a typo, I managed to screw things up badly enough that my first large world test had hundreds of artists split into just three gigantic world-wide societies based on their art form, but I've put some controls on size and made them mix together properly again. It would have been bad to suddenly have two hundred dancers show up at the fort and ask for drinks after a performance.
Next up, the books! Then the festivals
Have you thought about establishing "forts" in cities? I'm thinking anything from walled communities to ghettos to Christians worshipping in the catacombs.This came up in one of the earlier dwarf fort talks. Short answer is yes.
What is the effect of art on the world? In a recent devlog it is mentioned that a human created an art form for moral lessons in a gobling civ, does the civ change its moraility based on the poems? Is art right now only for entertainment? Will we ever see the pen being mightier than the sword?It's almost certainly just entertainment right now. Civilizations changing is planned and technically possible already, but it's not really in the confines of the tavern release. In fact, I'm pretty sure that the morality lesson form was not chosen because of the creator's dissatisfaction with goblin society, but somewhat randomly. And you know what they say about "ever" questions. :P
What is the effect of art on the world? In a recent devlog it is mentioned that a human created an art form for moral lessons in a gobling civ, does the civ change its moraility based on the poems? Is art right now only for entertainment? Will we ever see the pen being mightier than the sword?It's almost certainly just entertainment right now. Civilizations changing is planned and technically possible already, but it's not really in the confines of the tavern release. In fact, I'm pretty sure that the morality lesson form was not chosen because of the creator's dissatisfaction with goblin society, but somewhat randomly. And you know what they say about "ever" questions. :P
So you knew you were getting libraries, right? I mean...You know what? I think I can speak in the name of all of us DF fans, when I say WE LOVE YOU!
So you knew you were getting libraries, right?
So you knew you were getting libraries, right?
human values are randomized for each instance of civilization now
The outlines are ready for mathematicians, philosophers, historians, geographers, doctors, naturalists, and astronomers. I'm using the same master-student framework for them as they work on research projects,Interesting, i wonder if it will work at gameplay time and NPC will teach and learn while you're walking around, or if this NPC development will be worldgen only.
So you knew you were getting libraries, right?It was inevitable.
human values are randomized for each instance of civilization nowDoes this mean we are likely to see humans fighting amongst themselves now?
The outlines are ready for mathematicians, philosophers, historians, geographers, doctors, naturalists, and astronomersAre we getting the Philosopher back?! That would be cool.
What about spheres and the Metaphysical/magical stuff in the world?That will probably have to wait for the mentioned myth generation stuff for the Artifacts section.
Are we getting the Philosopher back?! That would be cool.No. There'll be dwarves of a philosophical bent, that may be called philosophers even, but there won't be a singular noble position called the Philosopher.
Also, if a dwarf arrives at your fort with a book, or makes one after arriving, where would it be stored if you don't have a library defined?Books are, if I am not mistaken, currently stored in finished goods stockpiles. I doubt that will change.
Ah. I was really just wondering if a dwarf would stick a book they owned in their chest, cabinet, or even just under their bed if they had the option.Also, if a dwarf arrives at your fort with a book, or makes one after arriving, where would it be stored if you don't have a library defined?Books are, if I am not mistaken, currently stored in finished goods stockpiles. I doubt that will change.
I already brought this up in the suggestions, but how do you feel about the game producing actual music following the rules you generate? As in, simple one voice folk songs that you hear when you walk by a musician who's playing. I made a song following one of your formats by just picking random notes and rests within the chords generated for a form.
https://soundcloud.com/nethodsod/the-grasping-oaks (https://soundcloud.com/nethodsod/the-grasping-oaks)
It should be quite easy to program, since all I did was follow the two meters exactly, and then pick a random sequence from the chords for the melody. It alternates between the two chords, and has a brief segment where I randomly picked any notes from the whole scale. That happens between 1:45 and 2:30.
I already brought this up in the suggestions, but how do you feel about the game producing actual music following the rules you generate? As in, simple one voice folk songs that you hear when you walk by a musician who's playing. I made a song following one of your formats by just picking random notes and rests within the chords generated for a form.
https://soundcloud.com/nethodsod/the-grasping-oaks (https://soundcloud.com/nethodsod/the-grasping-oaks)
It should be quite easy to program, since all I did was follow the two meters exactly, and then pick a random sequence from the chords for the melody. It alternates between the two chords, and has a brief segment where I randomly picked any notes from the whole scale. That happens between 1:45 and 2:30.Spoiler: "Text of the song I think" (click to show/hide)
This song should be accompanied by a chant. Given the name, I suspect it should be an elvish chant of an unspecified but specific poetic form. It's a primary melody done passionate and loudly. Also the chordal guidelines were 'melancholic and soft' for the instrument.
Generated music suffers from the interpretation problem. Toady couldn't make something that could do this justice, although we can take the data and demonstrate the richness it represents. That is what really makes this game great. I look forward to hearing what you output on the next release, but don't expect this in the game because it isn't practical. Unless you really want to argue my opinion of the tone being not soft or melancholic is an error on my part and most of the world would disagree? I guess he could eliminate the descriptions and make it an entire generated sound file, but then he'll have to make that poetry generator he always threatens about in the form he threatens, and a text to speech synthesizer, and other stuff that is inconsistent with an ascii game he made.
No, what you ask for is and always will be in the realm of user created content. Inspired by DF, but made by us. Please though, make more, inspired by the legends of worlds you play in.
That specific song form should have chants, yes. Also, those chords will never sound melancholic, unless you use notes outside them, or use extremely carefully considered expression. A vocalist would certainly make that easier.I get that those notes are probably difficult to play melancholic. I'm not a musician and don't know what all the descriptions mean, nor do I know what a rofela is. I do know that upbeat music played on an indian flute can sound pretty melancholic to me. It would be cool to have a musical change as you approach musicians. Not sure what he plans now for adventures approaching it. Maybe something like "You hear music and/or singing to the northeast or something. Playing a different speical tract of music at the same time would definitely improve atmosphere. I wonder if he is planning that?
What I am suggesting, is that simple one voice songs can be generated within the meters and scales generated by DF. That's what I did. I didn't put in chants, because that would be difficult to generate. The song that I made only has things that I thought would be easy to program.
The idea is that such a song is more like a jam session by the musicians in the game. You would hear it when within a certain distance of musicians that are playing, and the song would be appropriate to the song form that the musician plays.
Toady, would you consider making key parts of the randomly generated musical forms stored in such a way that they could be reasonably easily accessed by external programs that convert them into audible music?
specific suggestions belong for the most part in the suggestion forum (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=5.0).
The outlines are ready for [...] geographers [...]
They're more then likely in the histoy of the world. Which means you dump out as .xml files.
After reading the brilliant devlog, I wish the game would tell us stories instead of us having to search the histories for them now."DF, tell me a story."
By fiery magma and clowns.After reading the brilliant devlog, I wish the game would tell us stories instead of us having to search the histories for them now."DF, tell me a story."
"Yadda yadda yadda... Your fortress has crumbled to its end."
After reading the brilliant devlog, I wish the game would tell us stories instead of us having to search the histories for them now.
Quoteiirc, we were told that toady wont include new music because its actually him playing the music, and that takes a lot of time from programming.
Toady, will you be making a different soundtrack that plays according to events in game to improve situational awareness? Like a 'combat to the death' tract, a 'I hear music' tract, a 'I'm quick traveling' tract, exc...
Suggestions go to the Suggestion Forum. There have many threads about path finding. Necro one or start a new one.
Have you heard about weighted A* search which introduces a constant factor w (with w > 1) to A*'s admissible heuristic to improve execution time by trading off the optimality of the results to be no worse than w times the optimal solution ?
a good thing, since the early tests without books led to the expected and repeated tragic loss of knowledge and the constant rediscovery of previously known facts without much progress toward advanced techniques.
Suggestions go to the Suggestion Forum. There have many threads about path finding. Necro one or start a new one.
Have you heard about weighted A* search which introduces a constant factor w (with w > 1) to A*'s admissible heuristic to improve execution time by trading off the optimality of the results to be no worse than w times the optimal solution ?
Will the new knowledge "tech forest" be accessible in the RAWs?
If I think up a new fantasy philosophy, can I have the philosophers in game discover it? Or when the history department at my local IRL university thinks up a new historiography method, do we have to wait for it to be hard coded in or can we just add it to the RAWs ourselves?
Suggestions go to the Suggestion Forum. There have many threads about path finding. Necro one or start a new one.
Have you heard about weighted A* search which introduces a constant factor w (with w > 1) to A*'s admissible heuristic to improve execution time by trading off the optimality of the results to be no worse than w times the optimal solution ?
I might just do that but it'll end up being quite long. I'd prefer not to waste his (and my) time by writing too much about things he is already aware off.
In the interest of saving everyone's time I think this is a perfectly valid yes/no-question before writing a long and formal suggestion post. And I've tried my best to keep it simple without sounding like I'm suggesting he should do x or y.
Weighted A* is one of these basic concepts quite a few other things are based on. To my surprise it seems to be rare to encounter it outside of lectures on autonomous robotics/driving but to assume he never heard of them feels like underestimating Toady.
To put a wrap on this: I'm almost entirely sure that Dwarf Fortress already uses weighted A*, at least based on the fact that pathing has various weights that you can adjust in-game, with the default being 2.
I wouldn't be surprised if we get books about themselves.
Will the new knowledge "tech forest" be accessible in the RAWs?It's pretty unlikely for this time around. Raws will apparently influence the available topics so we get books like "Anatomy of the Magma Crab" or "Caring for your Plump Helmet farm", but I'd expect that RAWification of innovations will have to wait until (or even until after) the innovations affect what the civ can do.
If I think up a new fantasy philosophy, can I have the philosophers in game discover it? Or when the history department at my local IRL university thinks up a new historiography method, do we have to wait for it to be hard coded in or can we just add it to the RAWs ourselves?
that implies some investigators will need to be at least well-read if not skilled in various topics (there aren't currently joint research projects).Does that mean that, eventually, we will have hunters that have read books about specific critters and know how they usually act in a state of terror? I.e. that we will have hunters that do not run up next to an elephant before it has dealt a lethal blow?
Will Kobolds dance in the next update? In the raws they seem to not understand the concept of music but Koblds must have some way to express joy when they successfully steal treasure.
fort be filled by lots of new necromancers in no time ?That should be fun.
With the 1400 cut-off date, could we expect world-gen ruins that hint at more advanced things you can't be build by any of the civs?
I mean things at most like hints of how the ancient Romans had a gear-like computer for guessing stars, and ancient Egyptians understood steam power, but wheres just at novelty levels?
Also, for elves and dwarves, I could see either or both knowing a lot about sound like the ancient Maya, who had temples that could turn the sound of clapping into the sound of a bird. The acoustic understanding would fit dwarves living in winding, underground places. Elves, it would fit their nature and such in a more natural way.
I assume that a lot of people in the generated world will have some reader skill even if minimal, as what would be the point for a writer to write a book in worldgen if none can ever read it, and with the teacher/student system i guess the reader skill will now be learnable.Book title "A is for Adamantine". I hope most won't be able to read and that reading be seen as a status symbol.
and with the teacher/student system i guess the reader skill will now be learnable.This actually brings up a good point.
How will the game actually differ between short and long world gen? What will the technological differences be?
since music/poems/dances seem to be civ specific, will there also be a degree of cultural diffusion where nearby civilizations learn/adopt some of the traditions of their neighbors? It'd be neat if stuff like local cultural regions and stuff would emerge over time in game.
Quote from: Charles2531With the additions of poems now, obviously poems will need to be written on something at some point. Is it right to assume we will see some type of paper industry added into the game, along with actual book production. Have you thought much about how this will be implemented, for example, whether books have to be handwritten or if there will instead be printing presses? Possibility of informational texts that could help dwarves learn new skills (this might be most balanced without printing presses as such books would therefore be time-consuming to produce, and therefore expensive)?Quote from: KestrelIf you make libraries available to fortress mode, could they be used to improve dwarf skills like diagnostics and architecture?
Would reading books give some dwarfs a happy thought?
Do different forms of art, music, poetry, and literature have the typical ranges of quality (masterwork, etc.) associated with them?Quote from: catoblepasAre there any upcoming plans to include training manuals or something similar for dwarves to train skills with?
what kind of experiments are you doing with your test myth generator? Is it something that came up because of the addition of temples, or something that may end up being folded into starting scenarios? What kinds of myths are we talking about, and how crazy can the results get?
When engravings and statues can be commissioned, will this extend to being able to demand poets and musicians compose pieces pertaining to specific HFs or events?
Since there will be taverns, doesn't it mean there will be more units on the map? Is it possible to have more population related settings?
Two tavern and mug related questions:
First, have you considered adding 'breaking mugs' as a celebratory tavern activity? The breaking of the mugs would generate happiness in the craftsdwarf who made the mug, and the breaker of the mug, with the happiness generated being dependent on the craftdwarfship of the mugs? Dwarves would always collect the best mugs they could from the stockpiles.
Second, have you considered allowing artifact mugs and musical instruments to be added to taverns as part of the décor, increasing the happiness of dwarves that see them in much the same way as levers can be admired? Perhaps do the same with figurines, jewelry, and scepters in temples?
From what has been shown of the music/poetry style generation so far, it seems like the differences between styles generated by different cultures are all pretty much random. Is this correct? And, if so, will this be the case for other kinds of generated knowledge, such as combat styles? Or will other things factor in? For example, with music styles, might a culture's exposure to another music style factor into the generation of their own music style, perhaps basing their new style on the other resulting in a style sharing certain features? For another example with combat styles, will a culture frequently exposed to a specific combat style or enemy generate a combat style geared towards countering the other combat style or particular enemy?
I could swear I remember seeing you say you wish there were an easier way to switch between fort and adventure modes. Do you have any ideas on how you would be going about this, or when you would be shooting for pushing it out?
Is there a reason why we can't construct most buildings near the edge? We can build floors and draw bridges and use them to seal the map anyway. So why not walls?
Will it be possible to create or completely change the poetry/religion/combat styles of your civilization while you play Fortress/Adventure Mode?
Will it be finally possible to make acts of profanation or heresy in Adventure Mode?
Will players be able to create their own cults and religions with their own laws and rules?
What do you see as the long term future of poisons and poison classes? Will there be generated poison classes so various creatures could be immune to one another or susceptible to one another? I know poisoning isn't very Dwarfy, but could creatures gradually develop immunity or cures for various kinds of creature poisons? I'm thinking fish growing immune to anemones, but also adventurers developing poison immunities through controlled exposure.
How do you feel about ancient technologies such as Hero's steam engine (62ish AD) and the Antikythera mechanism (205 BC)?
When will humans finally be able to steal dwarven steel making technology? We could do it by 1400, and we are very good at stealing ideas.
What's the timeframe for the current release? Will this one be another year+ in development or are we moving towards a more frequent cycle of updates?
That interview does put a new spin on Toady's multi-tile creature experiments. I hadn't expected boats to be on the short list for the fifth spot. That's just boats, and not full vehicles, I assume?
Toady, is Needlegrass intended to be Achnatherum, Aristida, Stipa, or another genus?
Do you look at real "reclaims" for inspiration?
Will dwarven dancing be restricted to taverns? Or could extremely happy dwarves (such as those just completing an artifact or realizing a life goal) spontaneously break out into dance to celebrate?
Will cats and small children be in danger due to sections punctuated by kicks?
Would it be possible for dancing to be weaponised/afflicted? I'm thinking along the lines of dancing mania: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dancing_mania. I have a compelling mental image of the potential for a forgotten beast to coat a Fortress in dust that renders dwarves unable to do anything but dance until dead, or a Pied Piper character who just shows up at the fort and leads Dwarves off the map with their mesmerising music...
Secondly: How do hostiles deal with music? If a Goblin army lays siege to your fort, and your tavern area happens to be throwing an amazing gig, are attackers in ear-shot likely to drop what they're doing and just start rocking out because the bard's got sick flute skills?
How does a tavern compare to a dining hall in the mind of a dwarf? If both are available, do they prefer one over the other for their parties or needs?
Also, do songs, dancing, etc. only occur at parties, or will we see people doing them just for fun in their down time?
The newest devlog mentions worldgen teacher-student links. Do you think the framework you'll set up for this will end up being the same framework you'll eventually use to model the transfer of other forms of knowledge? Like fighting styles, etc.?
Will festivals and competitions continue to occur after initial worldgen?
If so will they be something 'adventurer bards' can take part in?
And following on from that thought, will your fortress be nominated as a potential festival location?
Will there ever be more ways to capture animals?
What are your thoughts on putting real-life illicit/illegal drugs in the game? Specifically, I'm expanding the products made from the real-world plants, and I'm not sure whether it would be appropriate to add hemp buds and their associated syndrome.
Have you thought about establishing "forts" in cities? I'm thinking anything from walled communities to ghettos to Christians worshipping in the catacombs.
Does that mean that the "skill system" that we have for jobs and combat will eventually be replaced by a knowledge based system?(a dwarf who did a certain job for his entire life is considered an expert in that area and a dwarf who has been doing a job for 2 months is considered a novice)
Will said knowledge be transferred via family relationships?(Urist's parents teach him how to be a blacksmith/Urist's wife teaches him poetry)
Will dwarves be forced to learn things by themselves?Vanod's home is being constantly harassed by criminals.He decides that he had enough of them and since there are no warriors in his village he starts to train some combat skills by himself by fighting the wild animals that roam nearby his home.
Will vampires/werebeasts and any other night creature that you are planning to add to game be able to marry other night creatures and have vamire/werebeast sons?I feel like this would be a nice alternative for generating new night creatures instead of the very rare profanations and an awesome quest to have in adv mode.
Are there going to be any entity tokens to customize what types of art forms civilizations get? Like if I want dwarves to only make dances that are really slow, or elves to have mostly fast music. Is speed of music even part of the styles I haven't looked at the dance or music styles since they seemed really complicated. Anyway, there's probably things one might want to customize other than speed.
I mean in the entity. I'm not asking if you can make it physically impossible for goblins to do dwarf dances.
Will different civs be able to write their own "national anthem" or something like that?
Will musicals have a look in?
Do you feel that older art types like engravings require work to bring more in line with these new art forms? Statues and engravings are entirely 'what', whereas poems and books seem to be far more 'how' based.
Will adventurers be able to compose songs, write music, and choreograph dances? Form a traveling performing troupe of your own?
Is the work you intend to do on farming with tracking moisture going to be laying the groundwork for some future farming updates that you plan to do or will this probably be your only pass at farming for some time? also do you only intend to track moisture for "dirt" tiles and exclude plain stone so as to minimize computing?
What is the effect of art on the world? In a recent devlog it is mentioned that a human created an art form for moral lessons in a gobling civ, does the civ change its moraility based on the poems? Is art right now only for entertainment? Will we ever see the pen being mightier than the sword?
The most recent features add new interactions to the world beyond "stab/rob/eat them" among the races. Indeed your last dev log (03/16/2015) seem to indicate certain easiness on the interaction. I'm simply curious, how a grown up, free human walks to a goblin site door and ask to become an poetry apprentice? What do it takes to survive such endearing quest?
I don't want to be perceived as judgmental or even critic of your work because certainly I haven't earned such rights, and I know DF lore is based but quite different from the standard fantasy setting, however still, don't you think it's a little out of character for goblins to mind about poetry like this?
Will art forms evolve? For example, musical forms might, over time, change, merge, or even split into two different styles?
Will the next release allow religion to inflitrate a civ like poetry?
(referring to the study of poetic elf forms that returned to his civ. Human Seeker of truth finds religion in dwarvish god of hate, and starts a temple in his civ.)
Will 'schools' of (dance/poetry/song/exc.) Attempt to supress divergent styles?
Will religions have style flavors, and if so, can they be declared heretical?
Will religions try to destroy each other and purge megabeast cults and other non-civ religions?
Will favoritism lead to teachers spreading knowledge of rare forms only to their "best student"?
If the previous is true, could that lead to murder?
Mostly I am curious about the kinds of murderous motivations these new changes might add.
Edit: aaaaand updated devlog expanding this train of thought...
Will religions sometimes consider certain knowledge heretical and hold book and/or people burning to supress it?
And if so...
Will religious hit squads(or other 'suppression of knowledge' crews) show up to kidnap tavern patrons or even your own dwarves? And can you choose between giving up or hiding Uristileo possibly risking an inquisition attack and Civil War in your fort?
So now maths and engineering :P will we get differential gears and banana Spaces?
Generally speaking what are the highest ideas the dorfs or any other civ can come up with?
Given the realistic nature of DF technology/science, to what degree will chemistry, mathematical, and similar books be randomly generated?
Are there plans to integrate the animal training knowledge with rest of the knowledge system before the next major release? (The one after this one)
You mentioned dwarf, elf and human scholars but not goblins. Does that mean goblins won't have scholars (except poets!) or just that you haven't decided what they'll specialise in yet?
Does that mean there will be maps in Libraries, allowing to discover new locations?
Does this mean we are likely to see humans fighting amongst themselves now?
Are the values similar to spheres in that related ones are more likely to group together and vice versa?
A thriving civilization, scholars from around the world congregating and exchanging ideas, storing the collective knowledge of the world in a vast, Alexandria-like Library.
Then the dragon/goblin army led by their demonic Overlord/fire-breathing titan/adventure mode PC shows up, slaughters the scholars and burns the library, setting back the pace of learning by centuries. Awesome.
So - books do burn, right? Will this be a thing?
How do you feel about the game producing actual music following the rules you generate? As in, simple one voice folk songs that you hear when you walk by a musician who's playing. I made a song following one of your formats by just picking random notes and rests within the chords generated for a form.
Would you consider making key parts of the randomly generated musical forms stored in such a way that they could be reasonably easily accessed by external programs that convert them into audible music?
With the advent of library's, will bookcases become a thing, or will books be stored in existing furniture?
How do you plan to display adventures approaching music?
Will we get these scholars in the fortress? (like the old philosopher)
Do you have any plans to have them create books while in player fortresses? Will we be able to create libraries ourselves (like a hospital or temple zone or whatever) and attract scholars?
Quote from: devlog
The outlines are ready for [...] geographers [...]
Does this include cartography? And by extension, will that mean the world map you see in adventure mode will be influenced by your civs cartographic/geographic knowledge? Will we be able to find physical maps?
In general, will the book framework be used for anything else than actual books? I'm thinking of pamphlets, proclamations, wanted posters, and as mentioned, maps.
Since necros are not the only ones making books now, will we see existing professions creating books to pass down knowledge? (Fisherdwarfs giving casting techniques or guides to what fish are best when, animal trainers cataloging things that they tamed, miners keeping diaries, craftsdwarves writing about the proper usage of tools, etc)
Although the reason I didn't see it might be because it's venturing into suggestion territory, we do know that the new artists are getting books, so it's more like who else will be getting book-writing functionality?
How will our new visitors react to having the fortress closed and being unable to leave, especially during a siege? Will they freak out and eventually go crazy like merchants currently do, or will they react more reasonably (either by accepting that there's a good reason for being stuck there or perhaps even demanding to be let out if there's no good reason for the fortress' entrance to be blocked)?
Will there be partial and unfinished works?
Also now with books more commonplace will the Bookkeeper actualy keep book?
Have you heard about weighted A* search which introduces a constant factor w (with w > 1) to A*'s admissible heuristic to improve execution time by trading off the optimality of the results to be no worse than w times the optimal solution ?
Edit for clarification: My intention is to get a quick yes/no-like answer before I'll attempt to write a potentially redundant, proper, lengthy and formal suggestion post about ?-admissible search algorithms that are based on weighted A*.
Do you have plans for gorlaks, or other non civilised creatures making poems, songs, dances, and similar?
Will dwarves read books while on break? And if they read books, will they be able to gain skill from them?
Toady- have you thought about tweaking with crossbows/ranged weapons having fixed ranges? i.e. the idea of firing a crossbow from a 3z high tower to get extra range?
where will knowledge of adamantine working come from?
Quote from: FieariWill the new knowledge "tech forest" be accessible in the RAWs?
If I think up a new fantasy philosophy, can I have the philosophers in game discover it? Or when the history department at my local IRL university thinks up a new historiography method, do we have to wait for it to be hard coded in or can we just add it to the RAWs ourselves?
For that matter, what about ideas that aren't just ambiguously correct, but are clearly wrong? People wrote books and chased down clearly false ideas plenty of times in history. It's a part of science too, to propose an idea that might not work out.Quote from: Urist McGoombaBrotherAre the innovations moddable? E.g. Is it possible to add some more innovations or even entire innovation chains via modding or is everything hardcoded? With innovation chain I mean let's say for woodcutting first investigate single blade axe, than double blade axe, than double blade axe with extra sharp blades, etc.
When this is moddable and one day ingame-functionality is added, will we be able to add custom effects to those innovations? e.g. double blade axe => 10 per cent faster chopping than with standard axe, double blade axe with extra sharp blades => 20 % faster chopping than standard axe, etc.
Also when moddable, will we be able to add tech trees for completely random studies e.g. plump helmet science or tree hugging techniques for elves? Just for personal amusement and to be able to find books or engravings about this or that.
So will people still write books about other people's books about other people's books about mugs?
Does that mean that, eventually, we will have hunters that have read books about specific critters and know how they usually act in a state of terror? I.e. that we will have hunters that do not run up next to an elephant before it has dealt a lethal blow?
If so; will this be expanded upon to enable hunters/players to aim for lethal points in sentient creatures/critters, if they've read a book about the biology of, say, humans?
With the 1400 cut-off date, could we expect world-gen ruins that hint at more advanced things you can't be build by any of the civs?
How will people discover new knowledge at the beginning of time? Will worldgen just create wisemen who then write books or pass on teachings through teacher/apprentice relationships? Or will gods n' demons grant the knowledge?
Will scribes make copies of important books to distribute them, possibly to other libraries across the world?
Is some knowledge protected? Will dwarves prevent the spread of metalworking techniques outside of their civilization?
Everyone will be capable of reading any book? I mean, different languages won't affect reading/speaking (just yet)?
That led me to wondering then if accidentally or by bug or by facetious adventurer bringing it, a necromancer book end into the fortress library, will that fort be filled by lots of new necromancers in no time?
Will the new system allow for things like training medical dwarves? Will it be possible to have reactions that look for a book of a particular topic/type?
Will there be harder books that require greater reading skill than others?
Quote from: Urist ArrheniusIn adv mode will the player be able to become a student of a scholar, and later become a teacher themselves? Will adv players be able to create books?Quote from: Novel ScoopsCan the game be modded so scholars genuinely "know" what they're supposed too and actually teach the player? i.e, rip from various ancient textbooks and treatises which the player can then be taught and tested on?
Quote from: SimRobert2001How will the game actually differ between short and long world gen? What will the technological differences be?Quote from: BafflerWill research be conducted in our own fortresses? If that research is fruitful, will it spread out of the fort in some way, say travelling scholars visiting the library as well as the tavern?
Just, for the big picture, is the innovation system currently implemented as major feature of the adventure mode only? Or is this also a major topic for fortress mode?
The specific text of the books doesn't go deeply into the theorems or anything -- it would be better to have more, but we have a large list we're working with so we can't spare more than a sentence or two at this time.If I understand you correctly, and this is mostly an issue of not having enough time to type out detailed descriptions, could this sort of thing be outsourced to your loving public? It wouldn't be at all hard for the community to flesh out scientific descriptions, especially of genuine scientific advancements.
I was curious, with the new groups like bands and similar how big of a problem will loyalty cascades be? If my fortress is invaded by someone who is in a band with one of my dwarves, will i have to deal with my dwarf once i have killed off the invaders?
I'm not sure how to evaluate the quality of the results -- say, after some stuff happens and we have some freshly created dwarves, the celestial ibis mates with the sun and lays an egg which contains the progenitors of a giant-sized race who all come to reside in their lost city and forge the device which weaves the destiny of the dwarves and the dwarves rebel and break the device and that's why dwarves grow old and die now, or whatever.
...this leads to questions about whether you'd be able to play in an actual Age of Myth where dwarves don't yet age and the sun doesn't exist, or something.
I think it might actually be possible that the attackers will hear the music and some of them might even be moved to tears by it... but they can still accommodate their other emotions and motivations, so it wouldn't change the outcome -- combat priorities are pretty high.
We've been fudging books for a while now, and I'm not sure if that's going to change yet. Depending on how you think of the printing press, it's either before or after the 1400 cutoff it seems, so we could toy around with that later. Right now, everything is hand-copied in world generation in the libraries.
Right now all the covers are still made out of stone sometimes, and the pages don't have materials (or whatever it does for that item improvement). I'm still debating taking a further detour into better materials for books (and then doing scrolls or whatever instead of books oftentimes). It might be best to wait. Books might still be destroyed in world gen when bad things happen, and in regular play when really bad things happen.Might the oldest and/or earthiest cultures in the game use clay tablets? Wax tablets? Stone tablets?
"This drink is good, I want another."Quote from: FarmerbobTwo tavern and mug related questions:
First, have you considered adding 'breaking mugs' as a celebratory tavern activity? The breaking of the mugs would generate happiness in the craftsdwarf who made the mug, and the breaker of the mug, with the happiness generated being dependent on the craftdwarfship of the mugs? Dwarves would always collect the best mugs they could from the stockpiles.
Second, have you considered allowing artifact mugs and musical instruments to be added to taverns as part of the décor, increasing the happiness of dwarves that see them in much the same way as levers can be admired? Perhaps do the same with figurines, jewelry, and scepters in temples?
I haven't considered it at all -- right now a broken masterpiece mug would make the craftsdwarf upset, unless this is an idiom I'm not familiar with.
So, if this is anything like how "creatures can react to signs of death now" translated to "a stray tooth will paralyze an entire army with fear", it's entirely possible that the goblin siegers will leave a river of tears as they approach any fortress with taverns audible from outside, and players will trap their most annoying dwarves in "taverns" scattered across the surface to make ambushers evident by their tear-rivers?Quote from: WordsandChaosWould it be possible for dancing to be weaponised/afflicted? I'm thinking along the lines of dancing mania: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dancing_mania. I have a compelling mental image of the potential for a forgotten beast to coat a Fortress in dust that renders dwarves unable to do anything but dance until dead, or a Pied Piper character who just shows up at the fort and leads Dwarves off the map with their mesmerising music...
Secondly: How do hostiles deal with music? If a Goblin army lays siege to your fort, and your tavern area happens to be throwing an amazing gig, are attackers in ear-shot likely to drop what they're doing and just start rocking out because the bard's got sick flute skills?
It's not possible to do that yet, though I guess it is a step closer now that we have dancing, so that's something.
I think it might actually be possible that the attackers will hear the music and some of them might even be moved to tears by it... but they can still accommodate their other emotions and motivations, so it wouldn't change the outcome -- combat priorities are pretty high.
It isn't randomly generating math theorems or anything, though I can see something vaguely happening along those lines for certain magic forms (as with the Threetoe story involving magic).Cross product of two 3D vectors, anyone?
Quote from: BrokenDoes that mean there will be maps in Libraries, allowing to discover new locations?Not yet, but we're working toward that. It has been on the dev pages in several forms forever, and now we have one more reason and avenue to get there.
This compass has a new feature!Quote from: CLAWill we get these scholars in the fortress? (like the old philosopher)
Do you have any plans to have them create books while in player fortresses? Will we be able to create libraries ourselves (like a hospital or temple zone or whatever) and attract scholars?
Quote from: devlog
The outlines are ready for [...] geographers [...]
Does this include cartography? And by extension, will that mean the world map you see in adventure mode will be influenced by your civs cartographic/geographic knowledge? Will we be able to find physical maps?
In general, will the book framework be used for anything else than actual books? I'm thinking of pamphlets, proclamations, wanted posters, and as mentioned, maps.
If we get the libraries into fort mode, which will probably happen to a small extent, we'll have fort mode scholars and books in a very basic capacity. And yeah, the idea was that they'd be analogous to taverns and temples as meta-multi-zone location thingies that can attract outsiders.
The geography innovations include several related to cartography, but as with everything else we aren't tying it into the actual game yet. But yeah, that's the idea. We have several dev items on maps and we'd have you interact with them once they go in.
Ah, I get it, scholars are researchers and necromancers are academics. ;^)Quote from: Cobbler89So will people still write books about other people's books about other people's books about mugs?
I haven't changed anything about that, though the scholars have generally been writing about their research instead of commenting. The necromancers get bored.
Snip.
specific suggestions belong for the most part in the suggestion forum (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=5.0).
will we (eventually) see boulevard sort of phenomena? IE, civ leaders demanding that large sections of walls be torn down and remain so for some cities/forts within cities? Or that a certain tile path always remain open to the 'heart' of a fort in fortress mode?In a more generalized sense relating to this do you plan to have characters that can force or otherwise threaten the player to do things, such as the above example? If so, what is the extent of it? We already have the "export the wrong thing/don't meet a mandate and a random dwarf dies" consequence, would we see similar consequences for missing a mandated road or such?
Ok here is something
So I am going to make an assumption that later on there will be events, disasters, curses, creatures, what have you that will just flat out wipe civilizations off the face of the map where only their ruins still exist.
Yeah you can flood your world with so many monsters that it can be impossible for a population to grow...Duplicated raws hilarity is not intended behavior, but making the world unlivable by having more dragons than dwarves is how you set up a nice little spot for adventure mode :)
But I don't think of that as intended behavior.
Is there any recent plan to fix reclaim and unretire?ToadyOne plans for it to remain broken for the rest of time.
Major/game breaking bugs:
- Stranded caravans and other foreign units.
- Underground stockpiles turn the tiles into above ground.
- Previous fortress members turn hostile after reclaiming but don't attack.
Other problems:
- Nobles being re-appointed.
- Items scattered around, containers toppled, etc
- Rooms have to be re-assigned.
- Underwater tiles submerged even if there're walls blocing the water.
I actually completely forgot what my question was...
It was probably something about what would need to fall into place in order for worlds to become significantly larger so that we aren't talking about countries or continents the size of Europe... but rather world spanning games.
Assuming there are plans for that ever to be possible
ToadyOne talked about parallelization, and doesn't belive it'll off much to DF. Though that topic been discussed to death elsewhere. Generally ends with folks saying that because DF wasn't made with parallelization from the start, that it'd be a similar project to just restarting DF from nearly scratch.I actually completely forgot what my question was...
It was probably something about what would need to fall into place in order for worlds to become significantly larger so that we aren't talking about countries or continents the size of Europe... but rather world spanning games.
Assuming there are plans for that ever to be possible
Well, one factor is increased computing speed and memory size. Possibly 64-bit and/or parallelization to make it run faster.
Has the difference between multi-threading/concurrency and parallelization been discussed? From what I've seen, we've all talked to death the fact that Dwarf Fortress wasn't designed for multi-threading... But, I don't know about anyone else, but I didn't know the difference between parallelization and concurrency until (recently) I saw this: http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/CPP/C-PP-Con-2014/Overview-of-Parallel-Programming-in-CPP And if I understand correct from that talk, performing the same calculation (e.g. pathfinding, temperature updates, maybe AI choices) on massive sets of data at once (e.g. every creature on the map, every object and tile on the map) simply isn't suitable for multi-threading (concurrency) regardless of program design, but is very much suited for parallelization -- basically, as long as within the same type of calculation no two objects depend on the results of the other's current calculation of the same type, only the state from the previous tick, and as long as it isn't more if-else branching than actual calculating, then it might be as simple as flagging the loops in question to compile to code that tells the processor, in effect, "See how we're performing the same calculation on all the entries in this list? Feel free to run as many of them at the same time as you can," and then processors have a lot of different non-thready ways to achieve that. (Of course, it's possible that as time goes on compilers will get good at spotting those situations without any help from the programmer and that sort of code will end up happening automatically, but I imagine if, say, it would work except for one thing that makes it not valid/safe/whatever, explicitly asking for it would prompt the compiler to tell you what you need to correct in order for it to happen.) Just my thoughts after seeing that talk, anyway; I'm sure Toady will figure out what will work best at some point in looking at optimizations.ToadyOne talked about parallelization, and doesn't belive it'll off much to DF. Though that topic been discussed to death elsewhere. Generally ends with folks saying that because DF wasn't made with parallelization from the start, that it'd be a similar project to just restarting DF from nearly scratch.I actually completely forgot what my question was...
It was probably something about what would need to fall into place in order for worlds to become significantly larger so that we aren't talking about countries or continents the size of Europe... but rather world spanning games.
Assuming there are plans for that ever to be possible
Well, one factor is increased computing speed and memory size. Possibly 64-bit and/or parallelization to make it run faster.
A foot race... Will there be other sports? Dwarfs vs Goblins football?
A foot race... Will there be other sports? Dwarfs vs Goblins football?
A foot race... Will there be other sports? Dwarfs vs Goblins football?
FTFY
The game looks at the values and ethics of the civilization and the overall purpose of the occasion to come up with the schedule of events -- performances, competitions (from art to various races to wrestling to etc. etc.), processions and ceremonies, with various little details.Do note that much of that will likely be legends mode only for the time being.
The since the knowledge system appears to be "theory" based, what about wrong theories?
QuoteQuote from: FieariWill the new knowledge "tech forest" be accessible in the RAWs?
If I think up a new fantasy philosophy, can I have the philosophers in game discover it? Or when the history department at my local IRL university thinks up a new historiography method, do we have to wait for it to be hard coded in or can we just add it to the RAWs ourselves?
For that matter, what about ideas that aren't just ambiguously correct, but are clearly wrong? People wrote books and chased down clearly false ideas plenty of times in history. It's a part of science too, to propose an idea that might not work out.
...
Doing incorrect information is hard when we don't even have "correct" information done. We'll get to specific cases eventually, but the myriad wrong paths people can take are harder to do. It'll be part of the myth stuff as each society looks at the generated story from its perspective, but maybe not much on the first pass.
Instrument string throwing is totally a feature...
Theoretically, the dwarf can go up to 150% and down as low as 50% in their effective skills,
This would be more realistic than just have all dwarves be negatively or positively impacted becasue it respects the differences of individuals
The death of a loved one isn't the sort of thing that increases productivity.
Not to turn this into a suggestion thread, but I'm not sure the stress thing needs to change, because these sorts of stressors are shown to pretty much universally decrease productivity. The death of a loved one isn't the sort of thing that increases productivity. Neither does not getting enough to eat, or anything like that. Happy employees are productive employees, and the type of stress that makes you work more actively usually relates to demands in the workplace, not tragedy at home.The terms you're looking for are eustress and distress. At the moment, we only seem to have distress.
All thoughts, including being interested in furniture and the like, are considered eustress.Not to turn this into a suggestion thread, but I'm not sure the stress thing needs to change, because these sorts of stressors are shown to pretty much universally decrease productivity. The death of a loved one isn't the sort of thing that increases productivity. Neither does not getting enough to eat, or anything like that. Happy employees are productive employees, and the type of stress that makes you work more actively usually relates to demands in the workplace, not tragedy at home.The terms you're looking for are eustress and distress. At the moment, we only seem to have distress.
Do you plan to have activities other than dancing that use area divisions in the next release?I think a spectator area would be useful for a fistfight, too :)
We can rattle off probably lots of concepts that can make use of a division area. Sermons. Trails. Union Meetings. Operating Theater. Maybe get refactored for training by observing.Do you plan to have activities other than dancing that use area divisions in the next release?I think a spectator area would be useful for a fistfight, too :)
Have you considered having Dwarves shove chairs and tables out of the way to make room to dance? Or is that too complicated for now?Considered? I would personally be very shocked if the thought didnt cross Threetoes or ToadyOne mind. Its probably been verbalized. Though without furniture objects being very static permanent things right now. Its probably the biggest headache with furniture right now, is how static they are.
Well, probably. But I think there like four kinds of DF players, and so not every feature will be used by every player type. I mean, there lots in Fort Mode player's dont have to engage with if they don't want to. They can also just go into the raws, and mute all the dorfs stress needs.
Also, stress seems to have become pretty easy to manage recently, are you making any Fun changes to encourage players to allow dancing Dwarves (besides slight increase in productivity?).
Seems like the min-maxers might not bother with dance floors at all.
This doesn't really relate to any features in develpoment, but I think it's a good question.
Why is the cap for a job order in the manager screen 30?
I frequently make orders larger than that, especially since the bigger your fort the more necessary the manager becomes.
This doesn't really relate to any features in develpoment, but I think it's a good question.I think it is to force your manager to do more job. Of course, it could be solved in way that is more convenient to player. For example, you could write "56" and DF would automatically create two jobs - 30/30 and 26/26.
Why is the cap for a job order in the manager screen 30?
I frequently make orders larger than that, especially since the bigger your fort the more necessary the manager becomes.
I interpreted this question differently, not referring to content but to difficulty of prose in a more fundamental sense. In real life, I wouldn't expect an adult or teenager with a low level of literacy to understand most translations of Kant, just because the material is difficult even if it might be a clever person who wouldn't have trouble with the concepts. There's also an issue of dialectal divergence, including things like the standard Freshman example where people mistake "Wherefore art thou Romeo?" to mean "Where are you Romeo?". But that's more complicated than what I would assume could be boiled down to a variable denoting level of prose and an accompanying level of reading skill needed for comprehension, with potentially an incomplete understanding (enough to use but not to write on) accompanied by a stressor for border cases.Quote from: VatticWill there be harder books that require greater reading skill than others?
I haven't sorted that out -- it isn't just the reading skill, but the scholarly/art skills/knowledge as well. It seems like some books should require not only prerequisite skills but also prerequisite knowledge to understand at all, whereas others might actually implicitly provide prerequisite knowledge as well as the topic knowledge while imparting some skill as well, depending on the subject, length of study, etc.
It's vaguely related to the overall adoption of an innovation -- at some point, losing books/scholars shouldn't matter if everybody in the civ picks up a concept from an early age or there are representative artifacts everywhere, but that only applies to some things that lend themselves to cultural absorption/reproduction (some of the more esoteric innovations never get that way, even after thousands of years, or they occupying a middle ground where they'd be more obvious but not without work).
With non-dwarf permanent residents, does that mean individuals will have their own civilization's moral code attached? Or to put it in laymans terms, if you have an Elf resident, will they be dismayed by woodcutting? Will moral codes be alterable in game, so that your Elf resident may become numb to tree death over time because of cultural immersion?I imagine that each elf's application for Dwarf Fortress residence involves being locked up with a pile of wood, an axe and regular visits from the hammerer. Soon get rid of those pesky morals. :)
Related to the dev log but not to development, there's been a lot of unsightly double-minus usage lately (--). You can easily make an n-dash (–) with Alt+0150 or, if you prefer, an m-dash (—) with Alt+0151. I like the n-dash better but either would be preferable to the double minus.
Rather, it's a matter of style. The "double dash" is a style borne of inadequate keyboard skill and you'd be hard-pressed to find any formalized style which supports it; if any such thing exists it's definitely not one widely used. You'll note that all major writing software will automatically replace a single dash with an n-dash and most will do the same for the double dash. A convention created to work around a limitation is inherently not correct as it exists purely to mimic the style which was desirable in the first place. This is akin to using an apostrophe in the place of an accent.Related to the dev log but not to development, there's been a lot of unsightly double-minus usage lately (--). You can easily make an n-dash (–) with Alt+0150 or, if you prefer, an m-dash (—) with Alt+0151. I like the n-dash better but either would be preferable to the double minus.
All a matter of taste -- aesthetically, I like the double dash best, personally.
Rather, it's a matter of style. The "double dash" is a style borne of inadequate keyboard skill and you'd be hard-pressed to find any formalized style which supports it; if any such thing exists it's definitely not one widely used. You'll note that all major writing software will automatically replace a single dash with an n-dash and most will do the same for the double dash. A convention created to work around a limitation is inherently not correct as it exists purely to mimic the style which was desirable in the first place. This is akin to using an apostrophe in the place of an accent.Related to the dev log but not to development, there's been a lot of unsightly double-minus usage lately (--). You can easily make an n-dash (–) with Alt+0150 or, if you prefer, an m-dash (—) with Alt+0151. I like the n-dash better but either would be preferable to the double minus.
All a matter of taste -- aesthetically, I like the double dash best, personally.
A visitor from a hippy civ should be offended by wooden chairs.
An elf who signed on to a member of your fort knows what to expect.
I'd expect a hippy hireling to be offended, but less so since they did willingly enter a contract with you knowing what you do.
"Urist, that loudmouth drunk, told everyone in the bar about the secret lumber mill!"
Keas, freaking keas. stealing and stuff.
Anyway, I started a new fortress in a new world, besides the 3 insanities caused by failed artifact making attempts everything is going well, I actually have a fully armored almost legendary skilled military, and the resources to make steel, c: I wonder how long it will be before everything goes horribly, horribly wrong.
Toady, with forts now being playable with members of other civs as citizens, will there also be a mechanism allowing non-civilized creatures like tamed pets to become citizens in the same way? What will happen to the relationship between a pet owner and a "pet" who is thus considered a citizen?
There is a difference between having a visitor of another race and a citizen of another race. Visitors would have all of the ethics and values of their home civs (with individual variation), but a citizen is a member of the fort's civ, pretty much by the definition of "citizen." A category in between of hirelings (such as mercenaries and commissioned artists) make for an interesting gray area.
With non-dwarf permanent residents, does that mean individuals will have their own civilization's moral code attached? Or to put it in laymans terms, if you have an Elf resident, will they be dismayed by woodcutting? Will moral codes be alterable in game, so that your Elf resident may become numb to tree death over time because of cultural immersion?If nothing else, they could just do what any respectable dwarf citizen would under disagreeable circumstances: go insane.
What is the definition of a k-chain of polyhedrons in a Banach space? What do you mean by a 'sum' of polyhedrons?
Naturally one would have to kill you the moment you read it. For there are things man was not meant to know.What is the definition of a k-chain of polyhedrons in a Banach space? What do you mean by a 'sum' of polyhedrons?First thing that came to mind, and I know it's just a harmonic equation.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Could these methods be used to allow an adventurer to carry a quest log which could be recovered after their death, bonus question: could npcs occasionally have these with potentially interesting stuff or even just banal notes jotted down when you find their corpses?
Sounds like the alchemy-shop is back now (in a way) lets hope we are getting some phosphorus for our dorfs. Scrolls and books sound really sexy especialy since we can make them now. Will there be some kind of Fungus based paper? Furthermore will it be possible to use certain fabrics like silk (used for some time in china (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mawangdui_Silk_Texts))?
Today I got to work on some dwarfy library stuff -- like heating limestone and related minerals in the kiln for the quicklime, and then making "milk of lime" with that, so that the animal hides can be soaked and turned into parchment. The extra steps are there because both sorts of lime can be used for many other purposes which we will get to in later releases.
QuoteToday I got to work on some dwarfy library stuff -- like heating limestone and related minerals in the kiln for the quicklime, and then making "milk of lime" with that, so that the animal hides can be soaked and turned into parchment. The extra steps are there because both sorts of lime can be used for many other purposes which we will get to in later releases.
What sort of other uses do you envision?
What is the definition of a k-chain of polyhedrons in a Banach space? What do you mean by a 'sum' of polyhedrons?
For sake of our melting non-mathematician brains, could you talk about it in separate thread? :PI have two very distinct memories of learning the math that I now use quite a bit in my job. The first was the technique they show you in calculus right after you bang your head against the wall using the "limit as h → 0" method. The second was learning that subspace is a real scientific term.
I was really bothered by that fact, because it means that warp drive in Star Trek actually uses a hyperspace where speed limits do not apply.For sake of our melting non-mathematician brains, could you talk about it in separate thread? :PI have two very distinct memories of learning the math that I now use quite a bit in my job. The first was the technique they show you in calculus right after you bang your head against the wall using the "limit as h → 0" method. The second was learning that subspace is a real scientific term.
Will you sum the donation received via patreon (or other websites, if any, one day) to those received via the website when you announce the monthly report ?You were expecting perhaps the harmonic mean rather than the sum? I think you want to ask if Toady will be breaking down the the donations by source or only reporting an aggregate.
For sake of our melting non-mathematician brains, could you talk about it in separate thread? :P
Will you sum the donation received via patreon (or other websites, if any, one day) to those received via the website when you announce the monthly report ?You were expecting perhaps the harmonic mean rather than the sum? I think you want to ask if Toady will be breaking down the the donations by source or only reporting an aggregate.
So, the real question is will the announcement be in the form of vector in RN or in the form of a scalar "taxi" norm?
There's nothing really wrong with that, but it's just a question that's more appropriate to either a general mathematics thread or (more useful from a practical standpoint, probably) to just email him.For sake of our melting non-mathematician brains, could you talk about it in separate thread? :P
The reason I'm asking this here is because I've been reading up on Tarn's thesis (which I should add is about polyhedral k-chains) so I figured, why not ask the man himself? Sorry if it looks out of place.
With books and instruments done, what is the next thing coming up on the DF to-do list? :D
Do boogeymen ever go extinct? In case of a no, do you plan to add a way to make them go extinct, since it would be kinda of strange seeing them in the Age of Fairy Tales?Why not have fairy tales about boogeymen? :)
That's what I want. The age of Fairy Tales to happen, or the age of civilization.Do boogeymen ever go extinct? In case of a no, do you plan to add a way to make them go extinct, since it would be kinda of strange seeing them in the Age of Fairy Tales?Why not have fairy tales about boogeymen? :)
Thus the bit about "stories told by travelers"!That's what I want. The age of Fairy Tales to happen, or the age of civilization.Do boogeymen ever go extinct? In case of a no, do you plan to add a way to make them go extinct, since it would be kinda of strange seeing them in the Age of Fairy Tales?Why not have fairy tales about boogeymen? :)
The Age of Fairy Tales was a time when fantastic creatures were few and far between, and some even doubted their existence.
The Age of Civilization was a time when fantastic creatures were but mere stories told by travelers.
It seems strange that in these ages you can't walk alone during the night without getting ambushed by dozens of boogeymen.
For that I think we should deepen the waters of what are they precisely, where from where did they come from, where did they go, where did you come from boogeymen joe.... arrh ehmmm I mean, they should be redefined as something that has a reason, a reason that preferably can be stabbed or burned to death. Right now they simply exists and that's it.Myths about why the world works like it does are an eventual goal already.
If I understand you correctly, and this is mostly an issue of not having enough time to type out detailed descriptions, could this sort of thing be outsourced to your loving public? It wouldn't be at all hard for the community to flesh out scientific descriptions, especially of genuine scientific advancements.
Is the "greatly respected for heroic acts" line in legends mode a "higher rank" than "legendary hero", and is there a similar sort like "greatly feared as a killer" beyond even "legendary killer" possible?
Toady, with visitors now coming to a fort, how important do you feel it is to have the ability to place arbitrary restrictions on which parts of a fort can be accessed? Like guards at the entrance to the royal chambers turning away everyone who isn't a noble without invitation, keeping random sightseers out of your secret defences, jailers granting or rejecting visitation rights, librarians supervising browsing or borrowing, kids being shooed out of taverns by the bouncer or any other thing you could imagine. "Sounds good, no time line" or closer on the horizon than that?
I was curious, with the new groups like bands and similar how big of a problem will loyalty cascades be? If my fortress is invaded by someone who is in a band with one of my dwarves, will i have to deal with my dwarf once i have killed off the invaders?
with multicultural forts coming out with knowlage transfer will we be able to gain the tech from other civs?
Like say, if a human moves into the fort with a scourge can we learn to make scourges?
How do you envision innovations affecting gameplay, and will it be used as an excuse to move some things out into the raws? I'm imaging several substitute reactions like INEFFICIENT_UNRELIABLE_STEELMAKING, INEFFICIENT_RELIABLE_STEELMAKING and EFFICIENT_RELIABLE_STEELMAKING, but there are others that don't map so well into current raws like using math innovations to unlock siege engines.
How is the naming of innovations going to happen? For example with the Pythagorean Theorem, virtually everyone nowadays knows it as the Pythagorean theorem, yet it someone else had come up with it, it would be called something totally different? Is the game going to use the common, modern names so they are easy to look up for the players, or are the names of the innovations going to be more randomly generated or named after their inventors?
Once we have maps, I suppose it will be possible for them to get out of date as the lay of the land changes?
You mention that maps might be a thing that could happen with this update ... does this mean that we can expect an Adventurer's omniscient knowledge of the landscape will disappear soon, and we will have to rely on various maps or road signs to understand where we are going? Will these maps be subject to various degrees of inaccuracy, with some areas artificially inflating or shrinking depending on lack of knowledge or even cultural bias? Could these include landmasses that don't exist in the world or could they even be missing landmasses that haven't been discovered yet?
Quote from: dmatter1) Do you plan on having the number of philosophers/schools of thought vary depending on societal phenomena? IE, can we expect to see things like an influx of philosophers during prolonged periods of war, sort of like the Axial age?
2) Someone mentioned Alexandria earlier. Which made me think of an article I read that talked about how most of Alexandria's knowledge was lost before it was burnt down. As such, are we going to eventually see certain historical figures implementing policies that erode the knowledge base? IE, such as cutting funding to maintaining libraries (and their books) and possibly even cutting academics. I'd also ask about (ideological) cronyism but that is probably so far down the road it isn't even worth asking about at this point.
Additionally, how are books going to be impacted by wear in fort mode? Is there going to be to a book maintenance labor, or, le gasp, a new sort of noble dealing exclusively with books and book maintenance?
3) There was also mention of forts within cities in the last set of questions, which makes me wonder will we (eventually) see boulevard sort of phenomena? IE, civ leaders demanding that large sections of walls be torn down and remain so for some cities/forts within cities? Or that a certain tile path always remain open to the 'heart' of a fort in fortress mode?Quote from: BFELIn a more generalized sense relating to [3] do you plan to have characters that can force or otherwise threaten the player to do things, such as the above example? If so, what is the extent of it? We already have the "export the wrong thing/don't meet a mandate and a random dwarf dies" consequence, would we see similar consequences for missing a mandated road or such?
If I understand, books will provide experience for a skill, when a dwarf is reading it (in the far, future version).
1) Will you lower the experience gaining of the current "Find out yourself" method of training for the balance? Will it take more time to train a legendary X without books in the future?
2)Are you planning to introduce other training helping methods, like the master-pretence relationship?
3)What are your plans about diseases?
I saw that you are working on history books, and I was wondering whether the books you are talking about are just book titles like "This is a comparative biography of those three mayors, in such and such a style," or whether there will be books that record some of the significant events or citizens of our fortress that took place during fortress mode. I always loved the little stories that you get when you engrave a slab, but sometimes you have a dwarf that you really followed closely and when they die you would love to have some kind of recording of who they were and what they did in a more comprehensive way. As it stands, once they die you can't read about their preferences and friends and relationships while still in Fortress Mode as far as I can tell, so they become slightly lost. Also it would be amazing to have a little access to some of that history that we get in legends mode, but written from a citizen's point of view while still in fortress mode!
Given the master-apprentice model being introduced, will such pairs emerge in the fortress mode eventually?
Will certain nightcreatures, Vampires come to mind, be able to become students and teachers? Also will people actively search for new teachers to broaden their horizon once they learned everything from the old one? Would be nice to see wandering scholars. And finally will animals be part of the troupe? I don't remember if it came up earlier but it would nice to see trained animals, it could work similar to dances with some generated performances and some basic tricks.
Toady I don't want to spoil the hunt for anything in the current version, but do you have any favorite Easter eggs that you left in prior versions of DF or other Bay12 games?
Toady, what you said about my one response makes sense, but I was talking about pre-worldgen ruines, and was not clear bout that.
I had meant that there could be pre-worldgen ruins, (like how there are caves or temples or labrynths and such that re pre-worldgen) that have "modern" things in the sense of how they existed to ancient people in the form of novelties since slaves where easier at that time than steam power.
Plus, you said you wanted a generic fantasy world generator, and hints of an ancient precursor race is very cliche in fantasy.
Is there any intent to handle the issue of literacy down the road? Within the scope of this update it sounds like everyone will be able to read everything, which makes sense. Throughout history, it was common for largely illiterate groups of people to congregate in taverns (or the like) and have one literate person read a piece aloud. If a significant number of a fortress couldn't read well enough to get a happy thought from a book of poetry, a single literate dwarf could read the poem to his/her peers even if no one is an actual poet, and then everyone would be happier.
I think this would tie in nicely to the "do dwarfs read in their downtime" question, even if all dwarfs remained perfectly literate.This might not make as much sense for "knowledge" books, since people don't typically pick up "Siege engineering for dummies" in their spare time, but it might be a middle-ground between a common "one dwarf reading one book alone" occurrence and a relatively rare "giant festival" event. Similar to small groups of dwarfs dancing in their free time outside of the festival events?
Also, I know that language isn't really an explicit thing right now, and you mentioned getting books translated. Would you ever consider having different languages influence each other and change? Historically, languages like English have been notorious for stealing words from neighbors, and also developing into a massive number of different local dialects (much in the way cultural values flow between different populations). Is this a topic you would ever want to approach?
So I am going to make an assumption that later on there will be events, disasters, curses, creatures, what have you that will just flat out wipe civilizations off the face of the map where only their ruins still exist.
Because these happen in game, do you plan to make the players immune to such events, give them a fighting change, forewarn them that making a fortress in such a situation would be bad, or just allow them to fall to the civ wide death curse, or do you have something else in mind? Or is there just never going to be these sort of cataclysmic events?
Will you ever do something with the population so it feels less like the population limit is hit within the first 100 years and the world just constantly reincarnates the same 20,000 souls over and over again? Or is that just an ingrained issue?
How will you handle "off to tame the giant mantis" quests?
Since this will (hopefully) be a shorter development cycle on the new release, will the corresponding post-release bugfix drive also be shorter, or do you just fix bugs until you're bored of fixing bugs?
I just found and quite liked Threetoes' Stories, is there a chance of another one coming out?
You mention that spectator areas and such will be automatic. will we still be able to designate them if we want to have a dedicated auditorium? Will this ever be expanded to other activities like gladiator arenas?
Might we get rowdy creatures dancing on tables?
Will the new libraries have any raw-defined and/or randomly generated secret books in them, which is to say anything with IS_SECRET:MUNDANE_RECORDING_POSSIBLE in them?
Have you considered having Dwarves shove chairs and tables out of the way to make room to dance? Or is that too complicated for now?
Also, stress seems to have become pretty easy to manage recently, are you making any Fun changes to encourage players to allow dancing Dwarves (besides slight increase in productivity?).
Seems like the min-maxers might not bother with dance floors at all.
Do you plan to have activities other than dancing that use area divisions in the next release?
One of common interest in past civilizations is astrology/astronomy. People thought messages were hidden in sky, they tried to understands god(s) and watched stars, comets, eclipses... and "explained" them.
I guess it could fit with DF universe.
IG, astrology could give clues about what happens in the world, may warns about future siege, necro/FB attacks...
Astronomy could help for travels, caravans stuff (frequency for ex), trade, special conditions stuff (stars alignment allowed special alloys and dwarves could predict that)... Artists could leave/come for astronomic events, like celtic priest gathering during full moon night,... could give astro moods...
It may needs special buidlings (mirror, glass, books,...)
Does it fit with knowledge and religion stuff you re working on? Does it interest you ?
Quote from: KishmondWhy is the cap for a job order in the manager screen 30?Quote from: reality.auditorI think it is to force your manager to do more job. Of course, it could be solved in way that is more convenient to player. For example, you could write "56" and DF would automatically create two jobs - 30/30 and 26/26.
So written stuff is books and could include scrolls, but despite already being used, not much reference was made for slabs, and engravings haven't come up at all. Do you suppose that literate dwarves might make and enjoy text-oriented engravings? These do seem to be things that are only prevalent in more modern times with widespread literacy but the Egyptians were also known for it, and it would be a good way to get a lot of book content into the fortress as well.
Logically, the most historical cases would include writing alongside graphical representations, which brings up a second question. Has any thought been given to such aesthetic concerns as illustration and calligraphy? This was pretty common practice especially in religious contexts. The monks of Western Christendom was well known for illuminated manuscripts for a good period, and the calligraphy and beauty of copies of books (most especially the Koran) have been an esteemed artform in Arabic cultures from the Islamic golden age. Eastern calligraphy focuses on short phrases, to my understanding, but is also worth incorporating in some respects probably. While that might not be a priority for the tavern release, it does tie in to the science, art, and religion themes that his release has picked up, and tavern signage (especially in German and Japanese usage) would probably use the same code foundation.
With non-dwarf permanent residents, does that mean individuals will have their own civilization's moral code attached? Or to put it in laymans terms, if you have an Elf resident, will they be dismayed by woodcutting? Will moral codes be alterable in game, so that your Elf resident may become numb to tree death over time because of cultural immersion?
Toady, with forts now being playable with members of other civs as citizens, will there also be a mechanism allowing non-civilized creatures like tamed pets to become citizens in the same way? What will happen to the relationship between a pet owner and a "pet" who is thus considered a citizen?
Seeing as the issue different cultural norms in your fortress becomes prominent, is it possible for citizens to not only join the fort, but also be banished from it (or leave on their own accord)?
This would apply to individuals who are not criminals per se, but who just won't respect some local customs, wood use being the standard example, and basically nobody likes them. (Actually, this can apply to dwarves too, if they have exotic morals.)
What is the definition of a k-chain of polyhedrons in a Banach space? What do you mean by a 'sum' of polyhedrons?
Is it like the union of all polytopes in the sum? Does the induced space act as a vector space? For a given polytope [P], how are defined g[P], [P]+[Q] or [-P]?
Could these methods be used to allow an adventurer to carry a quest log which could be recovered after their death, bonus question: could npcs occasionally have these with potentially interesting stuff or even just banal notes jotted down when you find their corpses?
Will there be some kind of Fungus based paper? Furthermore will it be possible to use certain fabrics like silk (used for some time in china)?
Is purely vocal knowledge and history going to be covered?
How many quires fit into a codex, and can they be on multiple subjects?
Will you sum the donation received via patreon (or other websites, if any, one day) to those received via the website when you announce the monthly report ?
With books and instruments done, what is the next thing coming up on the DF to-do list?
Do boogeymen ever go extinct? In case of a no, do you plan to add a way to make them go extinct, since it would be kinda of strange seeing them in the Age of Fairy Tales?
As I stated above with plagues, I think my overall inclination is to go ahead with horrible random disasters, but to lean toward giving the player reasonable warnings that allow them to make decisions (like the turning away of migrants) which might be painful but could help. There are certain things like earthquakes which don't really have something like that, and I think it might be too much just to totally destroy a fort like the old demon timer from 2D (where you didn't even see a demon and it just ended the game, pending an adventure mode run). Rarely wiping out half of the dwarves in a quake on the other hand... I can kind of get on board. Sim City made it entertaining enough when a city-wide disaster struck, and we can probably manage -- especially if the effects of the disaster reverberate outward in a way that can be enjoyed for as long as you're playing the world, rather than just forcing you to rebuild and continue locally. I'd definitely understand turning that off though, for people that are just interested in working on fort-centered projects and so on.Seems to me that earthquakes could solve the old problem with calculating structural integrity of player-made structures being resource-intensive. Maybe mix it up a bit, so even a hall in stome could collapse if it's too big and not braced, but that would be rare, while on the other hand if you've got a fort suspending in mid air by a beam of soap, that's gonna fall on any earthquake.
Thank you for the answers, Toady!A fortress entirely of Batmen who's parents were murdered and swore to fight crime as THE Batman. Best. Fort. Ever.
With enough luck and "accidents", will it be possible to make a fortress, where every citizen are , well ... batmen?
(or any other non-dwarf immigrants, like humans, animal-men etc.)
Yes! Hopefully, this will be a ‼Challenge‼
Will the distant update require new worlds for the changes to occur?Considering that everything with new jobs and new civ knowledge requires a regen for mods, I imagine the tavern update will need it yes.
Assuming the update remains save-compatible*, that's about the size of it, yeah:Will the distant update require new worlds for the changes to occur?Considering that everything with new jobs and new civ knowledge requires a regen for mods, I imagine the tavern update will need it yes.
Basically, if the civs never get told about poetry being a thing they oughta generate, they won't generate it, so no dancers and poets. Furthermore, books, instruments and the knowledge to make them are also a typical thing that civs need to understand civ-wide before your dwarves can do them, so that probably needs regening as well.
I imagine you'd be able to define a tavern, but that's basically it.
Right now, it's still compatible. It was too difficult to get the old saves to generate new instruments without crashing everything, so they'll be somewhat impoverished. The dwarves might be able to make completely freeform stuff or nothing at all. I'll know more when dwarves are using the new forms. I'm trying to maintain the basic compatibility so I have an easier time with old bug report saves and so on, and there might be some use of the new art stuff in old forts (instrument defs are the hard part, so they might get singing forms, poetry and dance, but I can't promise it). Other things like taverns/temples/needs etc. should work immediately in old forts, though you won't have as many varied visitors because entire classes of visitors (bards etc.) won't exist in the old worlds.*And even if this release does, I'm assuming a break in save compatibility will come up sooner rather than later. I didn't have one on the table for the artifacts section originally, but with the mythology generator incoming, it's also a candidate now.
Ooh, definitely sounds like a good suggestion. You should make a thread.As I stated above with plagues, I think my overall inclination is to go ahead with horrible random disasters, but to lean toward giving the player reasonable warnings that allow them to make decisions (like the turning away of migrants) which might be painful but could help. There are certain things like earthquakes which don't really have something like that, and I think it might be too much just to totally destroy a fort like the old demon timer from 2D (where you didn't even see a demon and it just ended the game, pending an adventure mode run). Rarely wiping out half of the dwarves in a quake on the other hand... I can kind of get on board. Sim City made it entertaining enough when a city-wide disaster struck, and we can probably manage -- especially if the effects of the disaster reverberate outward in a way that can be enjoyed for as long as you're playing the world, rather than just forcing you to rebuild and continue locally. I'd definitely understand turning that off though, for people that are just interested in working on fort-centered projects and so on.Seems to me that earthquakes could solve the old problem with calculating structural integrity of player-made structures being resource-intensive. Maybe mix it up a bit, so even a hall in stome could collapse if it's too big and not braced, but that would be rare, while on the other hand if you've got a fort suspending in mid air by a beam of soap, that's gonna fall on any earthquake.
Quote from: HephSo now maths and engineering :P will we get differential gears and banana Spaces?
Generally speaking what are the highest ideas the dorfs or any other civ can come up with?
Differential gears are certainly one of the popular "did they or didn't they" technologies -- just in my quick run through, they were hypothesized in the Greek mechanism as well as the Chinese south-pointing chariot. I don't remember finding anything definitive online. I went ahead and made them a difficult tech (and added the pointing chariot and astrarium -- abstractly for now of course).
They can get divergence of the harmonic series and invent a symbol for addition, but no banach spaces. They can build a theory of rainbows using water-filled spheres and a camera obscura, and they can calculate the height of the atmosphere based on atmospheric refraction using the law of refraction (though it tries not to get into the actual shape of the world, since that might vary). They can make oil of vitriol and spirit of niter in theory, though I don't remember if we have any vitriols at all. Historians can start to understand how cultural differences and state bias affects source reliability and think a bit about social forces. They can come up with dedicated hospitals with specialized wards, staffing, medical labs and treatment for many illnesses. All sorts of other stuff -- as far as I can tell, none of this bumps up against the soft 1400 cut off, though there was disputed material here and there, in every field, and people are welcome to comment or advocate for inclusion/removal if they have information.
So, what part of the visitors will visitors play in our fortresses? Are any of them capable of betraying us during a siege, and say, opening a drawbridge?Spies like vampires with false histories that have them from friendly civs when actually they're from the dark pits down the road, perhaps? That would be cool! High lasher skill being the dead giveaway that gets them the room in the tavern located just above the magma pit...
Specific bugs should be reported on the bug tracker (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/), and specific suggestions belong for the most part in the suggestion forum (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=5.0).
The question about writing being used in engravings made me wonder, will we also see graffiti on walls of towns and ruins, like the drawings found on walls in Pompeii? If so, might it also be possible for adventurers to make their own graffiti?If its on the books, then chances are, they adventure will be able to do so as well. I dont remember anything about graffiti being a part of the old dev goals. Though it sounds like a reasonable actions, for the entities to take.
As animal people are playable now can gnomes become playable assuming they've joined the civ?What are gnomes?
Small humanoids that live in good (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Mountain_gnome) and evil (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Dark_gnome) mountains.As animal people are playable now can gnomes become playable assuming they've joined the civ?What are gnomes?
Small humanoids that live in good (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Mountain_gnome) and evil (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Dark_gnome) mountains.As animal people are playable now can gnomes become playable assuming they've joined the civ?What are gnomes?
They can't speak, but neither can plump helmet men, and Toady indicated on Twitter that they do become playable, so presumably the same would happen to gnomes. Whether things stay this way is another question.
Will naturalized non-dwarves be possible in migrant waves? In the starting 7? I know we can naturalize visitors to the fortress, I'm just wondering if it'll be possible to get pre-naturalized folks. :)Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the plan is eventually have the 7 come from a real population, then it would be possible (don't see why not). However if I recall right we don't have that yet and the starting 7 are "created from thin air". Starting scenarios should get to that I think.
OH MY GOSH YOU CAN PLAY AS A PLUMP HELMET MAN THIS IS THE BEST UPDATE EVER!!!! I can't wait to do all sorts of stupid plump helmet man things like steal plump helmets from dwarven fortresses and release them back into the wild, or butcher and eat dwarves.Small humanoids that live in good (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Mountain_gnome) and evil (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Dark_gnome) mountains.As animal people are playable now can gnomes become playable assuming they've joined the civ?What are gnomes?
They can't speak, but neither can plump helmet men, and Toady indicated on Twitter that they do become playable, so presumably the same would happen to gnomes. Whether things stay this way is another question.
They can't speak, but neither can plump helmet men, and Toady indicated on Twitter that they do become playable, so presumably the same would happen to gnomes. Whether things stay this way is another question.And on that note, how come it's mechanically possible to hold (admittedly one-sided) conversations with babies, but not creatures with the [UTTERANCES] tag? (ie kobolds and modded species)
Our first was a red panda man that became an herbalist in a human village for some years before taking up a wandering life as a musician
No, that's just the regular world gen migrations/job changes at work.Quote from: devlogOur first was a red panda man that became an herbalist in a human village for some years before taking up a wandering life as a musician
Does this mean your dwarves (or I guess that would be citizens now that they can integrate) can up and leave your fortress now?
A Sparrowman bard ... getting everyone naked. The fandom and its cliches are a constant in every universe *facepalms laughing*
No, that's just the regular world gen migrations/job changes at work.Quote from: devlogOur first was a red panda man that became an herbalist in a human village for some years before taking up a wandering life as a musician
Does this mean your dwarves (or I guess that would be citizens now that they can integrate) can up and leave your fortress now?
Will animal people who join surface entities learn to speak? I ask because the latest dev post implies they might sing songs.
It's possible we'll have some "neutral territory" behavior in place to curb the fighting if it is too common, but there's also room for the sheriff for crimes that are committed. It'll be lend a little spirit to the fortress, in any case.This sounds amazing - a little crime from the outside would definitely make the fortress more interesting. One concern:
The consequences of this would be awesome.Quote from: devlog 5/6/2015It's possible we'll have some "neutral territory" behavior in place to curb the fighting if it is too common, but there's also room for the sheriff for crimes that are committed. It'll be lend a little spirit to the fortress, in any case.This sounds amazing - a little crime from the outside would definitely make the fortress more interesting. One concern:
Is it possible that your sheriff enacting justice on visitors who commit crimes could result in retaliation (such as a siege) from the visitors' civilizations?
This would be amazing. And totally realistic.Quote from: devlog 5/6/2015It's possible we'll have some "neutral territory" behavior in place to curb the fighting if it is too common, but there's also room for the sheriff for crimes that are committed. It'll be lend a little spirit to the fortress, in any case.This sounds amazing - a little crime from the outside would definitely make the fortress more interesting. One concern:
Is it possible that your sheriff enacting justice on visitors who commit crimes could result in retaliation (such as a siege) from the visitors' civilizations?
Cheers for answering my question. Not sure how I missed that especially as I remember seeing lizardmen/reptile men lisping.Will animal people who join surface entities learn to speak? I ask because the latest dev post implies they might sing songs.
Wild animal people can already speak. Find some in adventure mode sometime :).
Quote from: JapaOn that note, do you have plans of attempting a 64bit build?
Yeah, I did the first attempt on that and it totally failed, since my express MSVC doesn't even support it. If I want to continue using MSVC, I'll have to buy it now I think, or go through some weird process which doesn't work for half of the people. It caused everything to be delayed.
Quote from: MiuramirI was just going to link to Visual Studio Community 2013 myself; it claims to have all the functionality of Visual Studio 2013 Pro, but is free to download and use for individuals and teams of up to 5 developers (plus academic, research, and open-source use). If this doesn't do the job, I'm sure a collection could be arranged to get you the workflow tools you need to move to 64-bit; IMO it's a matter of when, not if.
Money's not the problem. I just need something that works, I didn't have that last time I tried, and I didn't want to risk gumming up progress with new compiler mishaps. I guess once I get this release cleaned up we'll be at the best lull I'm going to find for a while, although I still have no idea how it's going to work.
You didn't used to have to change your computer... if that's true, we'll have to wait a bit longer.
Yeah I don't see multithreading helping nearly enough to be worth the problems unless we're talking about vectorizing some upkeep tasks to the GPU (with a fallback for systems without suitable hardware). Things like temperature, lighting, structural integrity for realistic cave-ins, etc. that can survive a one tick delay.
That would be a major, major undertaking. No, even major-er than you're thinking.
I'd imagine that's true for switching to a newer version of MSVC, but making the jump to GCC wouldn't make all that big a difference? I'm a bit surprised by that! Shows how poor a coder I am. :PDF already uses gcc on Linux and OS X
Thanks for the answers. Looks like four of my questions remain, pending anyone else jumps in. :)
To change the topic quickly:
When do you and Zach think you can grace us with your magnificent update? August? October? 2016?
It's technically possible that we could get a Dwarf Fortress release by the end of the month, and I've written everything out on a theoretical daily schedule that would make it, but I suspect bugs, non-DF hassles and other issues will drag it out by a bit. We're doing well though, in terms of not having another giant multi-year wait.
To change the topic quickly:
When do you and Zach think you can grace us with your magnificent update? August? October? 2016?
From May report:QuoteIt's technically possible that we could get a Dwarf Fortress release by the end of the month, and I've written everything out on a theoretical daily schedule that would make it, but I suspect bugs, non-DF hassles and other issues will drag it out by a bit. We're doing well though, in terms of not having another giant multi-year wait.
It's possible we'll have some "neutral territory" behavior in place to curb the fighting if it is too common,If Toady already encountered it during testing, it is almost certainly too common.
How much is lag an issue when you're testing features/debugging? Do you have methods or debug tools that circumvent it?Sort of like that famous Dismember Button? :)
Sort of like that famous Dismember Button? :)
Kobolds have utterances so they won't be very useful to talk to.They did, at one point, yell at the player in an amusing non-language during adventure mode. Love the small details like that, don't see why it can't also extend to fortress mode.
Are migrants still a thing, or are they completely replaced by visitors?Altering the migration system is part of the start scenario. ("Drastic changes to migrants based on starting scenario" and "Ability to trade/demand food in depot or similar place with surrounding dwarves") meaning this will be dealt with again soon. As this is a near future goal, it's unlikely that bulk migration of dwarves as a normal thing rather than an exception is being handled now. Thus, we can presume that the current migration events remain unchanged for now.
In the next release or two can we set adventurers out after offsite creatures that annoyed us? And will we be able to track rumors we heard about it via a quest management screen or something?"
Also how would animal men visitors and citizens react to a zoo full of their dumb cousins?
Also how would animal men visitors and citizens react to a zoo full of their dumb cousins?
I doubt they'd have too much of a reaction. IRL humans don't get too bent out of shape at seeing apes in zoos.
With non-dwarf visitors being able to join the fort as citizens will we be able to make clothes & armour of the correct size? ie. large items for humans and XXL for hippomen?
If not now how about later when book learning and/or apprenticeships get added?
Also how would animal men visitors and citizens react to a zoo full of their dumb cousins?
These taverns are sounding better and better, so many more groups to be cruel too. With so many more possibilities.
Wine quality and aging and options to "break out the good wine" for a festival in the near future?This has defiantly talked about. Not only about adding quality to booze, but also to expand booze making mechanically. Like having booze need water. I believe this was generally talked about in the cooking redux. Which can totally be in the near future, as cooking is closely tied tavern and inns, right?
Do you envision spies or other such traitors coming to the fortress later on?If there are spies in World Gen, then eventually they'll be spies in Adventure Mode and Fortress Mode.
What happens if your civ goes to war while your inn is full of visitors from your new enemy's civ? Are there any mechanics to let you know, or will the visitors just turn hostile one day without notice? Would going to war effect the reactions of short-term and long-term visitors in the same way? How will friends of visitors react?We have always been at war with East Asia.
Imagines glorious loyalty cascade...
1. Is there any chance of a job/position labelled "government clerk", to free up the mayor's time?
2. Additionally, will how dorfs vote be changing in the near future?
1. Will we be likely to see that research affects the way Dorfs do things?
2. Are we likely to see art forms and intellectual concepts die off?
1. With multi-racial and potentially multi-cultural forts, are interracial marriage and adoption on the tables for next release?
About animal people.
Now that they can join various sites, can an adventurer recruit one not from the site but a 'wild' one?
About animal people.That is already possible. I do that every time I play as an elf.
Now that they can join various sites, can an adventurer recruit one not from the site but a 'wild' one? If so, how would other followers react - would they attack them as they are treated as wild animals or would they let them live?
With musical instruments being used now, are we going to see other non musical related use of "musical" instruments? Like invaders sounding horns to attack or bells being used to wake up the militia soldiers that are sleeping? Or is this behavior part of the army arc?First thing that came to mind:
With musical instruments being used now, are we going to see other non musical related use of "musical" instruments? Like invaders sounding horns to attack or bells being used to wake up the militia soldiers that are sleeping? Or is this behavior part of the army arc?I predict ToadyOne will answer question as follows: "Sounds reasonable. No timeline."
You mentioned inns will attract visitors due to their reputations sometime back. Would the caverns also attract adventurers due to reputation (monsters found, previous adventurers killed, wealth uncovered, or something?).He already stated in the Dev Log that adventures will travel to the Fort and ask permission to slay a beast inside a residing cave. If the adventures aren't currently using that in game rumor to decide where to travel to, then its more then like an eventual plan for them to use that information.
Since visitors will be visiting local "establishments", will minting currency have a greater purpose than just to be used as an export item?I believe Toady's said that the main point of running taverns is currently for fun, and people visiting the tavern won't actually be paying for anything. Though, I guess past fun now that adventurers can visit your tavern it could be a source of non-dwarven soldiers which has practical uses.
I'm not exactly sure what the exchange rate would be, like 1 golden coin for 10k elven bark currency notes? If this is even how it's going to work.
I can just see a possible expansion of the use of currency in this next update as a likely next step. Money for furniture/weapons/food/beer/bounties and whatnot.
I believe Toady's said that the main point of running taverns is currently for fun, and people visiting the tavern won't actually be paying for anything. Though, I guess past fun now that adventurers can visit your tavern it could be a source of non-dwarven soldiers which has practical uses.I can imagine setting up a tavern in the exterior of a fortress in an evil region would be certainly very fun with various undead animals showing up, dead tavern visitor raising regularly into undeath and new visitor to fight, without mentionning some evil clouds moving around the tavern for more husk-ification hilarity.
Since visitors will be visiting local "establishments", will minting currency have a greater purpose than just to be used as an export item?I believe Toady's said that the main point of running taverns is currently for fun, and people visiting the tavern won't actually be paying for anything. Though, I guess past fun now that adventurers can visit your tavern it could be a source of non-dwarven soldiers which has practical uses.
I'm not exactly sure what the exchange rate would be, like 1 golden coin for 10k elven bark currency notes? If this is even how it's going to work.
I can just see a possible expansion of the use of currency in this next update as a likely next step. Money for furniture/weapons/food/beer/bounties and whatnot.
Music, a very important part of Dwarf culture.It's a real Chillaxe!
(http://www.infendo.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/guitaraxe-495x274.jpg)
Will there be any 'compatability' problems for multispecies forts other than culture?Todays hint seems that yes, there will be compatability problems for creatures that have ethics different than your own. Probably in a way a dwarf can walk past a creature in a cage, and get a bad/good thought from It.
Will there be any 'compatability' problems for multispecies forts other than culture?
Will elves and humans get vitamin D deficiency from being underground too long? Will carnivorous animal people get sick from eating only plump helmets?
does the changes about ethics mean that adopted humans can now do high boots at our dwarven workshops?I don't really see where ethics and high boots connect. Anyway, until the knowledge system expands to more things, it's most likely that the non-dwarf citizens that work for you can only do what your civilization can, even if their birth civ can't. So if your civilization has no ability to craft high boots, you likely won't be able to hire outsiders to do it for you amd/or steal their secret techniques of high boot crafting.
With the ability for jobs like butchering to affect the creature based on its ethics will elves be able to butcher a sentient corpse if given the task if they are a member of your fortress or will they attempt not to offend the dwarves?There has been no talk about fortress entities refusing to do labors they have set. So probably not.
With the ability for jobs like butchering to affect the creature based on its ethics will elves be able to butcher a sentient corpse if given the task if they are a member of your fortress or will they attempt not to offend the dwarves?Questions are supposed to be in green.
With the ability for jobs like butchering to affect the creature based on its ethics will elves be able to butcher a sentient corpse if given the task if they are a member of your fortress or will they attempt not to offend the dwarves?
You just answered this a second time and the question still isn't anything to do with refusing labors...With the ability for jobs like butchering to affect the creature based on its ethics will elves be able to butcher a sentient corpse if given the task if they are a member of your fortress or will they attempt not to offend the dwarves?
There has been no talk about fortress entities refusing to do labors they have set. So probably not.
With the ability for jobs like butchering to affect the creature based on its ethics will elves be able to butcher a sentient corpse if given the task if they are a member of your fortress or will they attempt not to offend the dwarves?
According to the devlog, it is just the work satisfaction thought that is affected at the moment. So elves may be depressed or angered by chopping trees, for example.
Though if non-dwarven residents can still use their original ethics, then it may be possible for them to butcher, though I wouldn't know for certain. It may rely on the base-civilization's ethics, which may prevent the butchering of sapients entirely.
It's something to look forward to discovering, at the least.
We trust you'll respect this new situation in your labor settings.Yeah.. yeah, sure, yeah... sure.
SNAAAAAAAKE!!!!!!
I wonder if this stuff also plays out in Adventure mode when Human civs get random/procedural ethics. Would be damn funny if a Butcher from a Civ A that cant butcher pigs or somesuch works for Civ B, has enough of this shit and start throwing slicing knives. More diverse ethics would be cool for such cases and/or religion relate ethics.
There is literally no way the random ethics can work except having it in the raws, since humans are the only ones who actually get the randomness.
Also, baby snatching ain't an ethic.
I'd like to note that it's the values that'll be randomized for humans in the next release. Those are distinct from the ethics. (And I don't think we know for sure if it's one tag for randomizing all values, or a per-value tag that allows mixing fixed and random values) .Yup, simply removing likes site from dark fortresses for gobs gives the dual effect that the populations don't spike into the 10k range, making them far more pleasant to explore as an adventurer, and it encourages them to integrate more widely into the world, leading to lots of interesting multi-racial communities.
Also, the standard migration from LIKES_SITE/TOLERATES_SITE is already doing a lot for creating multi-racial sites in world gen without need for slavery and kidnapping.
[ETHIC:OATHBREAKING:PUNISH_REPRIMAND-ISH]There is literally no way the random ethics can work except having it in the raws, since humans are the only ones who actually get the randomness.
Also, baby snatching ain't an ethic.
This is what I mean:
I hope it can be set like
[ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_FUN:VARIABLE]
((ect))
Instead of an all encompassing tag like [ETHICS_VARIABLE] or something
Well, setting the tag to variable, if set to be variable, each time it's read would mean that the ethic could change every time the game is started, or any time the variable is read. It's unlikely that keeping the variable... on variable would work, because that means that the entity will have what I can call "severe mood swings" based on their ethics. May be a good thing, but probably not.Civilization ethics currently can't be changed in an ongoing game so setting them to variable would randomize it for the one time that it's supposed to be randomized, then any further randomization would be ignored because the civilization already exists and ignores any changes to the entity raws. Or Toady could just code it to randomize once at the generation of each civilization to make sure nothing crazy happens, which would probably be quite easy.
Each entity would need to be able to store a separate post randomized variable, which now that I think about it isn't that hard, you'd just need to add a whole extra line (or more) of code to tell the game to keep the set variable.
Since visitors will be visiting local "establishments", will minting currency have a greater purpose than just to be used as an export item?
I'm not exactly sure what the exchange rate would be, like 1 golden coin for 10k elven bark currency notes? If this is even how it's going to work.
I can just see a possible expansion of the use of currency in this next update as a likely next step. Money for furniture/weapons/food/beer/bounties and whatnot.
What's the the mechanic of tree growing?Coloured for legibility
Does the new scholar occupation system mean that the old Philosopher Noble position is returning?No, it reconfirms that the noble position is deader than dodos, to be replaced by occupations of a philosophical bent like the scholar. A singular noble named Philosopher per civilization won't happen. Maybe a court philosopher or the like.
Pffthahahahahaha
Is that comic lifted from somewhere, or did you do that yourself? 'Cause if that's from somewhere link me, and if you did it, good job.
Will goblins eat and drink when they visit your fort? Will they need to eat and drink as citizens? Do you plan to have any measures put into place to discourage extensive fort gobbification if they don't need sustanence?
I can see food being to goblins as booze is to dwarves. In so far as they don't really need it, but can become rather violent without it.Except that dorfs need booze. They become physically and mentally unhappy without it. Whereas gobos never need to eat.
I had a thought with respect to text engraving. Could it be a feature one day that noble mandates could be directed by the nobles or the manager to be engraved on slabs and placed in communal areas as was often done with ancient laws? These could then be removed as they deprecate and placed in the garbage, or preserved in the library, or taken into annals by scholars, found by adventurers visiting ruins, as well as vandalized by dwarves who don't like the 'laws' and thus could be punished for it?
I had a thought with respect to text engraving. Could it be a feature one day that noble mandates could be directed by the nobles or the manager to be engraved on slabs and placed in communal areas as was often done with ancient laws? These could then be removed as they deprecate and placed in the garbage, or preserved in the library, or taken into annals by scholars, found by adventurers visiting ruins, as well as vandalized by dwarves who don't like the 'laws' and thus could be punished for it?
Adventurer cosmetic rerolls are great. Any implementation of rerolling options is great in my book. Probably a long time until I get the ones I want in world gen though.I'm super psyched over the fun and silly bugs that will no doubt emerge from "more lively inns and taverns", but yes, the ability to see the appearance and personality and such beforehand... heck to have a personality at all, that's pretty cool news.
now that we have libraries and all that stuff, wouldnt be the time to implement a way to craft foreign weapons? maybe trade tomes with other civilizations or have dorfs discover how to do it through experimentation. i dunno, it would be a good addition to the system..Toady said knowledge won't effect actual fortress workshops in the initial release, but yeah that seems to be one of the eventual goals for this arc.
heck to have a personality at all, that's pretty cool news.
heck to have a personality at all, that's pretty cool news.
Something like this should cover most of us.
Choose your personality:
Default Adeventurer (psychopathy)
Other
Will there ever be a way in adventure mode to cheat death? Not like vampires or undead, I'm talking something more like the bottled fairies from zelda or transfering your spirit to other people or things like in yugioh, you know what I'm saying?
You are a few versions to late for this. Bodysurfing (transfering your mind to a new body) was in after toady seperated the Mind frrom the body, you had to sleep in the right spot in adv. to activate that but then you could end up in cavern creatures and somesuch. Good times but it was a Bug and since fixed. That being said with the current Body/mind separation and association systems in place you it is possible in the future.
Iirc. in the forum for stories there was one guy/gal that used DF hack to summon the minds of Gods down into peasants so it cant be to far of coding vise. As always though no timetable.
Instaheals are possible with Modding. People noticed that wounds arent carried over in transformations and used that for Instaheals. In essence you would need a potion that transforms you into a fluffy wambler (and back) for 1 Tick which gives you a fully healed body.
One thing came to my mind when i was reading changelog about assimilating:More likely the would simply be ineligible for moods.
When a creature joins your fort and isn't assimilated yet and then happens to get a mood, does it create an artifact a dwarf would make or does it make an artifact related to items of former civilization this creature belonged to?
Strange moods can make an item of any type, regardless of whether the civilization can make it. Bowyers might make a completely useless artifact blowgun, or a weaponsmith could make a maul which dwarves can't even wield. Some mods have even added in weapons that no civilizations have access to as special secret artifact weapons. I think they might be more likely to make an item they can normally make, as I can't recall seeing any non-dwarf weapons in vanilla, but I haven't had many artifact weapons either.One thing came to my mind when i was reading changelog about assimilating:More likely the would simply be ineligible for moods.
When a creature joins your fort and isn't assimilated yet and then happens to get a mood, does it create an artifact a dwarf would make or does it make an artifact related to items of former civilization this creature belonged to?
Strange moods can make an item of any type, regardless of whether the civilization can make it. Bowyers might make a completely useless artifact blowgun, or a weaponsmith could make a maul which dwarves can't even wield. Some mods have even added in weapons that no civilizations have access to as special secret artifact weapons. I think they might be more likely to make an item they can normally make, as I can't recall seeing any non-dwarf weapons in vanilla, but I haven't had many artifact weapons either.They just aren't eligible at all, I've done a lot of research on artifacts and such, the usual methods for forcing a mood just don't work on races outside the current fort race (i.e. if you are playing as humans they are the ones eligible, not dorfs who might live there) and npc's during adventurer mode just don't seem to respond at all, though I've tried all sorts of stuff to make one run off and make an artifact it hasn't happened yet. Though I did have limited success doing it with advfort and recently got an artifake script working successfully so I suppose I'm something of an expert on the subject now.
Well they might not be able to have strange moods now, but they also aren't able to do pretty much anything right now. So I wouldn't make any assumptions about multi-racial forts based off of current ones.Strange moods can make an item of any type, regardless of whether the civilization can make it. Bowyers might make a completely useless artifact blowgun, or a weaponsmith could make a maul which dwarves can't even wield. Some mods have even added in weapons that no civilizations have access to as special secret artifact weapons. I think they might be more likely to make an item they can normally make, as I can't recall seeing any non-dwarf weapons in vanilla, but I haven't had many artifact weapons either.They just aren't eligible at all, I've done a lot of research on artifacts and such, the usual methods for forcing a mood just don't work on races outside the current fort race (i.e. if you are playing as humans they are the ones eligible, not dorfs who might live there) and npc's during adventurer mode just don't seem to respond at all, though I've tried all sorts of stuff to make one run off and make an artifact it hasn't happened yet. Though I did have limited success doing it with advfort and recently got an artifake script working successfully so I suppose I'm something of an expert on the subject now.
I also really hope Kisat Dur will be able to be made into a formal thing.
The devlog about parchment making mentioned "the new ability to place improvements on products". What does this mean, exactly? Is the decoration/improvement system being extended? Overhauled?It's something he devlogged about on the 5 Feb when he coded for generated musical instruments ["components made of various materials (though they work like item improvements on the final product)"]. My interpretation: When a new item is generated from component items, it uses an existing 'improvements' property to store the material of each component used (e.g. a scroll made from a pine roller and a cedar roller with a lambskin sheet). And it sounds like this can be generically specified in the raws (a scroll is created from two rollers and a sheet, add an improvement: 'a scroll made from a %1% roller and a %2% roller and a %3% sheet' (or maybe 3 separate improvement entries)). I'm surprised he didn't just link back to the original component items, but then he'd have to code a dynamic/meta OO system that I'd imagine is quite hard to code/debug.
Toady, what are your personal feelings towards the "I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream" situation that currently exists with regards to adventure mode personality? By which I mean, you are possessing an individual who has their own personality (even if we now get to choose what that may be) and can only watch as you use their body to do whatever, leaving them the freedom only to weep uncontrollably at the death and murder you cause.I think he said that it was an unintended--if extremely metal--side-effect of the personalities changes that your adventurer gets a muted personality with no control. If he didn't put the personalities in at all then besides not being able to interact with a retired adventurer I can imagine there would be several other issues with objects trying to point to the adventurer's soul if it was removed and those sort of things tend to cause crashes/instability.
Do you feel like this is a bug, to be removed in the future if possible, or is it a feature (that could maybe be communicated to the player better, like being able to talk to the person you are possessing)?
*from the diaries of a lost world*:In case you haven't seen it, and you're desperate for Toady's soothing text, there's a May 28th update on the Patreon page on reverse engineering genetics or something that should tide you over until the monthly report.
Its the first of June for a few hours, our only hope for survival seems missing and the world is in Peril. Where is Toady One, why didnt he answer questions and where is the monthly report? Is he ok? Is Scamps mourning that overcoded himself? Did df Become so powerful Toady segfaulted himself? Questions over question while we battle the encroaching Darkness ...
1. I was reading about how you wrote that poetry and songs used terminology that is "commonly used". I mentioned this in passing to a friend who's a big dance fan and gaming fan, and she brought up that there is terminology. Have you thought about opening this matter up to the community for input?
2. With what you just said about Earthquakes, have social stigmas affecting the fort's business been considered? (a la what happened during chinese feudalism if a large enough natural disaster occurred)
With enough luck and "accidents", will it be possible to make a fortress, where the only citizens are , well ... batmen?
(or any other non-dwarf immigrants, like humans, animal-men etc.)
Will the distant update require new worlds for the changes to occur?
An active projectile has several flags which were critical in getting my dorfs hopping up into trees (and goblin towers) like PARABOLIC and NO_COLLIDE plus NO_IMPACT_DESTROY, but for the life of me I can't determine what HIGH_FLYING does, would you happen to recall if it is an outdated tag or just for something else entirely? Oh, and do any of the numerical flags there have an effect on the way a projectile lands? When you jump you can land on your feet, using the launch.lua script right now you basically have to keep a hand free and grab on to a wall or tree to stop yourself, or just skid to a stop and hope your armor/toughness can take it.
So, what part of the visitors will visitors play in our fortresses? Are any of them capable of betraying us during a siege, and say, opening a drawbridge?
The question about writing being used in engravings made me wonder, will we also see graffiti on walls of towns and ruins, like the drawings found on walls in Pompeii? If so, might it also be possible for adventurers to make their own graffiti?
As animal people are playable now can gnomes become playable assuming they've joined the civ?
Currently a civilisation inherit all its ethics values from the entity that spawned it, ethic/values will then never change through the course of that civilisation existence.
But in real world, things change, you have ethics that evolve with the people in power, with the influence of culture/religion or simply with the time etc.
With the philosophers and philosophy going to appear in DF, will we see changes in ethics/value within a civilisation with the moving of time, or the rise in prominence from a specific philosopher (or religious leader) , possibly then leading it to break from its entity and even change the war/peace dynamics with other civilsations that had previously exact same ethics/values (due to spawning from same entity) and so made wars possibly happening between those civilisations while it was previously unlikely
If we see several animal men of the same species settle in a human civ, could the population take off, where that species could become a significant portion of the population, or even 1-2% in a handful of sites? Or will these be relegated exclusively to historical figures and their special roles?
Will naturalized non-dwarves be possible in migrant waves? In the starting 7?
Do you use any SIMD instructions (e.g. SSE), or do you know if your compiler(s) use them? Why or why not?
how come it's mechanically possible to hold (admittedly one-sided) conversations with babies, but not creatures with the [UTTERANCES] tag? (ie kobolds and modded species)
Would the ability to base animal men civ's off their bestial counterpart be in the raws anytime soon?
Will fort visitors 'learn' what kind of behavior they can get away with while at the fort (sheriff present or not, hammerer equipped with platinum warhammer or featherwood crossbow, etc).
Is it possible that your sheriff enacting justice on visitors who commit crimes could result in retaliation (such as a siege) from the visitors' civilizations?
Are there any plans to make regular dwarfs write diaries?
Have you considered pre-patching the game with large address aware as a temporary hold until 64-bit becomes a reality?
Besides allowing far more RAM allocation, do you know if any of the newer 64-bit instruction sets and registers could help Dwarf Fortress in certain computational tasks? Such as pathing and procedural generation?
How much is lag an issue when you're testing features/debugging? Do you have methods or debug tools that circumvent it?
Since wild animal men are now eligible for immigration, will it also be possible to mod feral creatures like, for instance, gnomes and trolls to be able to join civilizations?
And to rephrase my previous question, are kobolds getting their own combat/fort mode dialogue anytime soon? Those guys seem awfully quiet compared to everyone else.
You mentioned we'll be in control of whether or not visitors can stay. Will this control be expanded to migrants?
Is the "cause trouble for [insert group]" quest/assignment broken? If not is there a certain less obvious trigger for completion? I've heard and tried fistfights, I've tried maiming various members of said group in sight of other members, I've tried exterminating entire cities save a couple of survivors who I regaled with the tales of my murderspree, and numerous other permutations of this to no avail, I return to the guard captain/lord/lady/etc and give an update, they give a canned response, and it never shows as completed in the log.
Are there separate population caps for visitors and citizens?
Why do visitors come? (At the moment. I know it will radically change with start scenarios)
Why do visitors leave? Do they depart on a timer, when their needs are satisfied, random chance, etc?
Just how "citizeny" are visitors? Do they follow traffic designations? Do they trigger traps? Can we assign them labor? Can the military kill them? etc.
Now that we have foreign people asking for shelter in the fortress:
What about refugees from wars and such?
They would seem like the most logical example for something like that but are not mentioned in the recent dev log.
will you be able to use a kind of kill orders thing to make use of monster hunters to clean out pesky troublemaking critters?
If so...
In the next release or two can we set adventurers out after offsite creatures that annoyed us? And will we be able to track rumors we heard about it via a quest management screen or something?"
With non-dwarf visitors being able to join the fort as citizens will we be able to make clothes & armour of the correct size? ie. large items for humans and XXL for hippomen?
Travellers going to other places wouldn't be another fit category of visitors?
And what about traders? As the caravans bring an entourage of soldiers and merchants, won't they be another kind of visitors (renting rooms and going to parties at the inn)?
Do you envision spies or other such traitors coming to the fortress later on?
What happens if your civ goes to war while your inn is full of visitors from your new enemy's civ? Are there any mechanics to let you know, or will the visitors just turn hostile one day without notice? Would going to war effect the reactions of short-term and long-term visitors in the same way? How will friends of visitors react?
Are we likely to see art forms and intellectual concepts die off? More than the library of alexandria analogy that was proposed, will we see concepts die off the way that Latin as a language died off? (only practiced in scholastic sense and such)
How are the visitors (adventurers, artists, scholars) going to arrive? Accompanying caravans, accompanying migrant waves, on their own? Will there be special announcements to draw attention to their arrival?
With musical instruments being used now, are we going to see other non musical related use of "musical" instruments? Like invaders sounding horns to attack or bells being used to wake up the militia soldiers that are sleeping? Or is this behavior part of the army arc?
Since visitors will be visiting local "establishments", will minting currency have a greater purpose than just to be used as an export item?
I'm not exactly sure what the exchange rate would be, like 1 golden coin for 10k elven bark currency notes? If this is even how it's going to work.
I can just see a possible expansion of the use of currency in this next update as a likely next step. Money for furniture/weapons/food/beer/bounties and whatnot.
If the monster hunters are successful in their endeavors during their stay in your fortress, will they make their own trinkets from their kills as they do offsite?
You mentioned inns will attract visitors due to their reputations sometime back. Would the caverns also attract adventurers due to reputation (monsters found, previous adventurers killed, wealth uncovered, or something?).
Will visitors decide to never put a foot anymore into a tavern when the death toll start to increase ?
Will there be any 'compatability' problems for multispecies forts other than culture?
Will elves and humans get vitamin D deficiency from being underground too long? Will carnivorous animal people get sick from eating only plump helmets?
Will visitors be able to pursue romantic relationships with other visitors and the permanent residents of your fortress?
So, scholars and scribes. How does it all fit together on a worldwide scale? Is there a system for passing knowledge around from one fort to another or between friendly civilizations?
What's the the mechanic of tree growing?
Would adventurers be able to fill their mugs with drinks from barrels?
Or better yet, the blood of their enemies?
Will citizens who secretly murdered other citizens attempt to hide the corpses? And how would that affect the investigation?
How much love will Adventure Mode be getting in the coming updates?
Incidentally, is there any intention to expand the adventure mode medical system?
Toady, what are your personal feelings towards the "I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream" situation that currently exists with regards to adventure mode personality? By which I mean, you are possessing an individual who has their own personality (even if we now get to choose what that may be) and can only watch as you use their body to do whatever, leaving them the freedom only to weep uncontrollably at the death and murder you cause.
Do you feel like this is a bug, to be removed in the future if possible, or is it a feature (that could maybe be communicated to the player better, like being able to talk to the person you are possessing)?
Visitors are like merchants until they become residents, then they are like dwarves.
Are there plans for making artifacts magical, like a magic fire sword or healing chalice?
*stuff about the flags*Sorry, those are the names they're given in the dfhack gm-editor, forgot those aren't all pulled from the names you gave.
gm-editor uses DFHack headers, so that.Yar, in dfhack it was flags[12] that did it, that was the most annoying part really, that you had to grab a wall or tree to stop yourself. I've now jumped cleanly up into a tree, you could grab someone and give them an alley-oop up onto a wall and they'll land fine, though that does mean it isn't a simple matter of chucking enemies and having them grind across the ground... unless I have it check and flip the flag back, [Toady]he he he[/Toady].
this may be a really foolish question but,"Okay kids, it's time again for the Annual Wear Costumes And Go Begging Around The Neighborhood holiday. I'd recommend steering clear of the ol' man Darktangle the Girdle of Boats' place. He means well, giving our really nice cat brain roasts, but remember that he gives off deadly dust constantly."
taking in account that practically most of the species with an intelligent or can learn tag will be coming to the fortress. would be feasible to expect stuff like night creatures, evil biome sentients or even released demons to be able to visit and maybe settle in the fortress?
this may be a really foolish question but,
taking in account that practically most of the species with an intelligent or can learn tag will be coming to the fortress. would be feasible to expect stuff like night creatures, evil biome sentients or even released demons to be able to visit and maybe settle in the fortress?
Will the game notice the difference? I realize the answer is probably no for the upcoming release, since it's a very peripheral feature and not a normal use case anyway. But this relates to the idea of the world perceiving player intentions, which is, unless I'm mistaken, the biggest purpose of fortress start scenarios. Will those likely have the possibility to change during play? This also seems like it could related to army arc stuff once your active fort is treated more like a normal site for the purposes of wars and you (presumably, if I understand intended future design intentions correctly) can use nobles for politicking.Quote from: tahu16With enough luck and "accidents", will it be possible to make a fortress, where the only citizens are , well ... batmen?
(or any other non-dwarf immigrants, like humans, animal-men etc.)
Yeah, once you get your first permanent sign-up who isn't just visiting, you can end the dwarfiness if you like.
And not related to that, but also a start-scenario thing: Do you have any plans yet about adding social strata beyond noble/common, such as slaves? I got to thinking of that in connection with visitors and the "Explicit standing of different citizens vs. civilization authorities" note, but it seems like it would be pretty necessary for the prison colonies in general, and could be useful depending on how fulfilling of an implementation you want with religious sites, which would arguably have hierarchy based in faith and might have relevant religious precepts, and the mining companies and military citadels which would probably be differently organized compared to the relatively anarchic situation we've got now.Status is specifically mentioned on the dev page for the starting scenario framework, along with "Explicit standing of different citizens vs. civilization authorities." Also, from the last DF Talk:
The migrants that come - I mean there might not be migrants that come - they might have a certain type of character to them. To really understand that, we're gonna need to add a framework to the game that lets you understand exactly what it is that the citizen's standing is in the civilisation. I mean, are these sort of serfs that are bound to your fortress, are they kind of frontier dwarves, are they almost employees of your mining operation, you know.. So there's a lot of different ways to think about it, and so we'd like to set up a framework of law, customs, rights, property, and status, so that we can understand these things and we can make these scenarios very explicit.
I remember seeing in the planned features about ships, so Will there be anything involving ships added soon? Also, since there will be ships, and in another reply it was mentioned advanced crime was planned, will that lead to piracy as well?
Boats of some kind might go in early to make different regions more accessible, but you won't be able to be a pirate or an undersea civ for quite a while.
Rainseeker: I have another question here from Van, and he says, curiously enough, that you should cover vehicles in one of the upcoming DF Talks, and he wants to talk about siege vehicles, mounts, and boats.
Toady: I remember I made that post. Someone wrote a thing about boats, and then I posted a giant thing about boats, and the siege vehicles were going to run into the ideas about boats. I don't remember if we've actually had that on at the DF Talk or not, talking about ...
Rainseeker: Boats I'm not sure.
Toady: The siege vehicles, like multi-tile things that can move around and so on.
Rainseeker: Maybe talk a little bit about multi-tile stuff.
Toady: A large issue there is turning; should you only be able to point in four directions, because it's kind of mathematically impossible to have more without breaking the grid system or breaking the relationships between grids and, or changing the number of grids, and you can't do any of those things really safely. Now even if the thing turns four directions it can still more in many more directions by doing kind of an up-up-over, up-up-over, up-up-over thing. So it's not like they'll be completely dissatisfying, it's just if you're trying to navigate a narrow thing that you'd normally be able to navigate, like a narrow channel that you'd normally be able to navigate a boat through but suddenly you have to corner and it's like, turn ninety degrees or whatever, then you might run into issues, or you make all the boats squares or something, I think that'd be pretty ugly though. But as far as covering it on a DF Talk we can always put it up for vote. Next month is taken by adventure mode, but after that it's up to ...
Toady: Yeah. The other problem that I was going to mention ... well one of the sub-problems I was going to mention for liquids was boats; boats are important once you get to fluids. Then you've almost got like a cave-in problem; does this multi-tile thing that you've built, perhaps tile by tile, and in whatever shape; does it float? And if so how deep does the boat float and how much of it shows above the surface of the water. It could do that, once it understands the boat as a multi-tile object that's not so hard to calculate, because you have the total mass of the boat and how many air tiles dip down at each level, those kind of things are pretty easily calculated, it would just be a known quantity for that boat and then you could stick it in the water. If you have some giant galleon or something you'd have a couple of tiles below the surface of the water and a couple of tiles above the surface of the water, and you can just walk around on it and stuff; it'd be really cool. The other fluid problem was multiple liquids. It doesn't seem so bad at first if I want to add a couple more liquid types like oil and I mentioned sand before. Sand, you want to be able to build on it or walk on it or whatever has its own problems, but even if you just consider other liquids like actual liquids, like oil and ... I'm not sure what else people have suggested, blood ... and giant alcohol silos.
Threetoe: Ok, the next question's from Akos: Will you ever implement ports that make sieges and trading possible on isolated islands, how much do you plan to make oceans part of the gameplay, will you have navies or pirate ships that can fire on fortresses?
Toady: So we love this stuff, right? We have, we played Pirates! and Ancient Art of War at Sea and stuff, and...
Threetoe: And multiple submarine simulators.
Toady: Right now I'm reading the whole kind of history of one of the big greek wars and there's triremes ramming everyone and doing all kinds of things and so on. So yeah, we love boats. We've talked in the past about how boats might work so we don't need to go into kind of the technical details, those'll be in the transcripts of the old talks. But it's definitely one of the things that we're planning to do. And kind of incorporate it fully into gameplay everywhere.
Quote from: SizikDo you use any SIMD instructions (e.g. SSE), or do you know if your compiler(s) use them? Why or why not?
I haven't done anything explicitly that I'm aware of, though compiler optimizations squeeze another 10% out with every version and I'm not sure what is going on down there.
Quote from: StreeterHave you considered pre-patching the game with large address aware as a temporary hold until 64-bit becomes a reality?
Besides allowing far more RAM allocation, do you know if any of the newer 64-bit instruction sets and registers could help Dwarf Fortress in certain computational tasks? Such as pathing and procedural generation?
LAA came up but I wasn't sure if it would introduce new bugs at random so I never tried it.
I don't know anything about 64 bit ramifications outside of numbers being larger.
The current state on that overall is that the base code is incompatible with 64 bits (the window creation, message pump etc.), and then the supposedly free MSVC stopped working with some kind of expiration window.
Toady you mentioned that the Books deal with migration paterns, do herdanimals/birds and such actually migrate ingame?No, that's just a generated research topic.
The specific volume compared the airspeeds of various types of swallows when migrating with coconuts.Toady you mentioned that the Books deal with migration paterns, do herdanimals/birds and such actually migrate ingame?No, that's just a generated research topic.
African or European?The specific volume compared the airspeeds of various types of swallows when migrating with coconuts.Toady you mentioned that the Books deal with migration paterns, do herdanimals/birds and such actually migrate ingame?No, that's just a generated research topic.
I... I don't know. *aieeeee*African or European?The specific volume compared the airspeeds of various types of swallows when migrating with coconuts.Toady you mentioned that the Books deal with migration paterns, do herdanimals/birds and such actually migrate ingame?No, that's just a generated research topic.
I... I don't know. *aieeeee*African or European?The specific volume compared the airspeeds of various types of swallows when migrating with coconuts.Toady you mentioned that the Books deal with migration paterns, do herdanimals/birds and such actually migrate ingame?No, that's just a generated research topic.
With more additions to the game, the more burden falls on the already very strained FPS of Dwarf Fortress. Will there be Improvements on the game-performance in the next realease(s), that could make mega-projects or larger fortresses in general more pleasant to play with?Content releases such as the coming one rarely feature performance upgrades. The bugfix releases afterwards could, however.
With the scenarios/law/property update, might we possibly see the return of the economy?Not until the economy improves....
Will the dabbling-to-legendary scaling of professions ever change? Specially now that the master-apprentice mechanic is a thing in world gen.You've never seen a legendary milker in action. There's a real reason people tell legends about their tit-squeezing.
Also it kinda bothers me that experienced weaponsmiths and milkers can both be considered legends when one makes masterworks and the other is just a really fast tit-squeezer.
This is gold :DWill the dabbling-to-legendary scaling of professions ever change? Specially now that the master-apprentice mechanic is a thing in world gen.You've never seen a legendary milker in action. There's a real reason people tell legends about their tit-squeezing.
Also it kinda bothers me that experienced weaponsmiths and milkers can both be considered legends when one makes masterworks and the other is just a really fast tit-squeezer.
Hypothetically speaking... if fortress wealth is high but population low, and our parent civilization happens to be dying/dead; would outsiders sense the opening and flock to the fortress, inadvertently compensating for the lack of migrants?
The lack of migrants is a longstanding misconception. You will get migrants in the same proportion whether your civ has conquered the world or gone completely extinct.Really now? I was under the impression migrants were no longer being generated out of thin air.
The lack of migrants is a longstanding misconception. You will get migrants in the same proportion whether your civ has conquered the world or gone completely extinct.Really now? I was under the impression migrants were no longer being generated out of thin air.
IIRC, the position on that is basically that retired fortresses are not much different than other fortresses and should affect the world the same way when it comes to trade.
The lack of migrants is a longstanding misconception. You will get migrants in the same proportion whether your civ has conquered the world or gone completely extinct.Really now? I was under the impression migrants were no longer being generated out of thin air.
I believe the first 2 are. The rest are taken from historical figures, and can have kills, be vampires etc.
From my experience creatues aren't even truly domesticated in world generation. If you look at the animal knowledge screen in fortress mode it will say general familiarity not domesticated, and you won't be able to embark with them. Aside from that they seem to act as if they've been domestiated. I've also heard animal knowledge transfers to your whole civ when you talk to the liaison, so I'd guess based off of the rest of this that you'll be able to buy the animals from caravans, but not embark with them.IIRC, the position on that is basically that retired fortresses are not much different than other fortresses and should affect the world the same way when it comes to trade.
So it's based upon simple mineral availability in the embark?
I'm honestly not sure how it really works with current fortresses, whether it's what is in the mountainhomes, alone, or whether the whole civ's global mineral availability is counted. Or, for that matter, plants or seeds.
For that matter, is domesticating and exporting animals something that makes future embarks capable of embarking with war tigers?
terror/rage enchantments and so on
I got hit in the head by Putnam's zipper, I don't even know where he lives but I heard a sonic boom several seconds afterwards and it was warm from atmospheric heating.Quoteterror/rage enchantments and so on
The dizziness, if that's what Toady uses for ataxia, will at least slow a creature down and sometimes make them pass out.
Does drunkenness have any impact on combat? Lowered hit ratio? Additional force? Restricted to wild attacks?
I am not saying someone is going to mod weed now but someone is going to mod weed now.
Also if we mod mood lightening substances/antidepressants (say Agomelatin) would it be possible to change a melancholic dorf from a failed mood into working condition?
Now that you are integrating inns, will there be an innkeeper job?
If yes, will the innkeeper at some point also serve dwarfs in meeting halls?
It always bothered me, that every single dwarf needs to fetch food&drink by themselves every time and dont just get served by a waiter, or pick it up from the bar or something.
Now that you are integrating inns, will there be an innkeeper job?We're not quite sure what the tavern keeper does, but it exists as an occupation:
If yes, will the innkeeper at some point also serve dwarfs in meeting halls?
It always bothered me, that every single dwarf needs to fetch food&drink by themselves every time and dont just get served by a waiter, or pick it up from the bar or something.
I'm setting up the occupation assignment for the new taverns, temples and libraries. They work kind of like position appointments. This time I think we're going with tavern keepers, performers, scribes and scholars. Priests are off the table for this release since they are currently handled by a separate entity and we'll have to tackle that later, but temple performers should still be able to do sacred dances and so forth. Tavern performers are special artists like those from the traveling troupes -- dwarves will still sing, dance and tell stories without needing to be given an occupation.
I must have missed this debate, since I can't envision a scenario where third party utilities being good would result in the closure of the subforum.Toady's reply (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=21806.msg238694#msg238694) in the mentioned thread.
Regarding the new effects of alcohol:I think a good way to balance it would be to have satisfied citizens be willing to settle for water if available, while unhappy dwarves guzzle more booze than they need, as a way of drowning their sorrows in alcohol. Or partying if they have nothing better to do. Oh look, someone else beat me to it.
Today's update suggests that excessive alcohol will effect characters, including Dwarves, adversely. If lack of alcohol continues to effect Dwarves badly, and too much alcohol also effects them badly, how does one achieve the right balance in fortress mode?
Do we just try to keep everyone busy, or what?
Toady, I am interested in how you generate the local maps in dwarf fortress, such as the maps that your adventurer and dwarfs run around in. How do you make the edges of each local map match up? How do you make sure that the elevation of a local map corresponds with the elevation of the world tile that it is within?
Also, what would you say was the most difficult and or interesting piece of creating the world generator for DF. Excluding legends and history. Is there anything else that you would like to eventually add or change with the world generation?
Syndromes can already have the SIZE_DILUTES tag, so presumably alcohol will just use that.
Are we likely to see some dwarves become the fort drunk?
I think that is sort of the direction where the embark scenarios are meant to go, though with the added depth of embark scenarios checking and adapting on the fly more fluidly, which may already be something he intended. As the saying goes he went to improve hauling and ended up creating the minecarts and physics to handle them.
... deliberately leaving a barrel of booze out to get and giants or ettins drunk before sending in the military.
I'm not sure how inebriation squares with the current relationship DF dwarves have with alcohol. Maybe dwarven drunkenness in Fort Mode will be restricted to "recreational" drinking a dwarf can do in taverns during their break (where they can presumably drink too much in too little time) while the "functional" drinking to get through the working day isn't counted toward them getting drunk? Otherwise I'd expect they'd need to drink water sometimes or dilute their alcohol.Well, the dwarven liver is three times the size of a human one, implying that dwarves require much more booze to feel an effect. Given the pace of eating and drinking in fort mode it should be fine.
Simple temple praying for the adventurer perhaps (as opposed to "talk to your god")."O Armok, I live to serve you! Are you pleased with my actions dispensing justice in this world?"
How do you handle events? Do you, say, loop through every/certain intervals of items/units/etc, or do you use another method?
There are scheduler-type updates for a lot of things. If you look at a filling or emptying bunch of water, you can see the pattern of updates going over it. Items are checked for for pathability or w/e every 1,2,4,8, etc. up to IIRC 1024 ticks (said IIRC in an interview).
Is there any likelihood of a more detailed relationship system e.g. social calls, grudges turning into friendships, feelings of indebtedness, proposals (turned down), unrequited love, non-mutual hatred, hatred generally, gifts, stuff that happens to us normally, any or all of these?Yes but not in this release.
Selfish and irrelevant question:I didn't even know there was a way to start it doing that.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Not talking about alcoholic breath? Why not!?The SYN_CLASS or equivalent tag should be in the raws, so it should be pretty easy. And even if it's not in the raws, the folks who spend their free time inspecting DF string dumps will find it anyway.
Is it now possible for drunk-inducing breath to exist?
Linking syndromes sounds like a good way to implement antidotes.That also relies on a syndrome vector being able to change concentration by a negative amount.
"Oh no, Rakust has been bitten by a weregopher! What will we do!?"
"She must be fed the tears of a unicorn before the new moon!"
Linking syndromes sounds like a good way to implement antidotes.
"Oh no, Rakust has been bitten by a weregopher! What will we do!?"
"She must be fed the tears of a unicorn before the new moon!"
Right now, it's hard to even keep dwarves from deciding the hospital operating room isn't an appropriate place to have lunch, even when it's being actively used by a dwarf bleeding out from a syndrome."Try the red sauce. It's got an interesting flav-- oh my eyes are melting!"
Is there any likelihood of a more detailed relationship system e.g. social calls, grudges turning into friendships, feelings of indebtedness, proposals (turned down), unrequited love, non-mutual hatred, hatred generally, gifts, stuff that happens to us normally, any or all of these?Yes but not in this release.
QuoteSelfish and irrelevant question:I didn't even know there was a way to start it doing that.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Linking syndromes sounds like a good way to implement antidotes.That also relies on a syndrome vector being able to change concentration by a negative amount.
"Oh no, Rakust has been bitten by a weregopher! What will we do!?"
"She must be fed the tears of a unicorn before the new moon!"
Linking syndromes sounds like a good way to implement antidotes.
"Oh no, Rakust has been bitten by a weregopher! What will we do!?"
"She must be fed the tears of a unicorn before the new moon!"
Such a thing would require the capacity to actually order dwarves to gather specific things ("What part of the pea plant do I gather again? Oh well, I'll just uproot the whole thing!" "Hey, there's a whole pea plant here! I don't know which part is the pea, so I'll just not eat any of it...") as well as order dwarves to not only drink specific things, but things that are not normal drinking items, and/or mix drinks.
Not saying it would be a bad thing, mind you, I'm sure people would love the ability to point to specific things they want done, but that's a huge step up in Interface specificity. Right now, it's hard to even keep dwarves from deciding the hospital operating room isn't an appropriate place to have lunch, even when it's being actively used by a dwarf bleeding out from a syndrome.
Linking syndromes sounds like a good way to implement antidotes.
"Oh no, Rakust has been bitten by a weregopher! What will we do!?"
"She must be fed the tears of a unicorn before the new moon!"
Such a thing would require the capacity to actually order dwarves to gather specific things ("What part of the pea plant do I gather again? Oh well, I'll just uproot the whole thing!" "Hey, there's a whole pea plant here! I don't know which part is the pea, so I'll just not eat any of it...") as well as order dwarves to not only drink specific things, but things that are not normal drinking items, and/or mix drinks.
Not saying it would be a bad thing, mind you, I'm sure people would love the ability to point to specific things they want done, but that's a huge step up in Interface specificity. Right now, it's hard to even keep dwarves from deciding the hospital operating room isn't an appropriate place to have lunch, even when it's being actively used by a dwarf bleeding out from a syndrome.
Right now Dwarves are diagnosed by a doctor and the medical team use the resources to hand to fix the problem. There's no need for the player to do anything but keep the hospital stocked up. The only thing extra needed in this case is a medicine cabinet and some chemists to keep it stocked up. Doesn't sound too complicated.Linking syndromes sounds like a good way to implement antidotes.
"Oh no, Rakust has been bitten by a weregopher! What will we do!?"
"She must be fed the tears of a unicorn before the new moon!"
Such a thing would require the capacity to actually order dwarves to gather specific things ("What part of the pea plant do I gather again? Oh well, I'll just uproot the whole thing!" "Hey, there's a whole pea plant here! I don't know which part is the pea, so I'll just not eat any of it...") as well as order dwarves to not only drink specific things, but things that are not normal drinking items, and/or mix drinks.
Not saying it would be a bad thing, mind you, I'm sure people would love the ability to point to specific things they want done, but that's a huge step up in Interface specificity. Right now, it's hard to even keep dwarves from deciding the hospital operating room isn't an appropriate place to have lunch, even when it's being actively used by a dwarf bleeding out from a syndrome.
Linking syndromes sounds like a good way to implement antidotes.
"Oh no, Rakust has been bitten by a weregopher! What will we do!?"
"She must be fed the tears of a unicorn before the new moon!"
Right now Dwarves are diagnosed by a doctor and the medical team use the resources to hand to fix the problem. There's no need for the player to do anything but keep the hospital stocked up. The only thing extra needed in this case is a medicine cabinet and some chemists to keep it stocked up. Doesn't sound too complicated.
Doing specific things like hunting unicorns and mixing up potions step at a time seems more appropriate for adventure mode.
Well, you can solve this with either the "stock the hospital with everything!" approach, or adding a "rumors" tab to the Z screen, allowing diplomats to bring tales of supposed cures and other news, and store Liason stuff under the Rumors tab, so that you can know in advance what the cure might be and stock the hospital with those things.Right now Dwarves are diagnosed by a doctor and the medical team use the resources to hand to fix the problem. There's no need for the player to do anything but keep the hospital stocked up. The only thing extra needed in this case is a medicine cabinet and some chemists to keep it stocked up. Doesn't sound too complicated.
Doing specific things like hunting unicorns and mixing up potions step at a time seems more appropriate for adventure mode.
If you're talking about procedurally selected cures to procedurally generated syndromes and diseases, however, "keeping your hospital stocked" may involve tossing in every random extract and excretion of every plant and creature to ever exist. You'd need some method of throttling or else candy stitches are going to be the least of your hospital-controlling concerns.
Beyond that, you, at some point, need the capacity to actually gather said unicorn tears in the first place, and then designate them for stocking your hospital.
Nah, see, that's where scholars come in. You can read through your accumulated library, and see if there's any books about were-creature cures.Or this. This would work too.
Just hope they're more accurate than mideval vampire cures.
How about, now that we have inns and taverns, you get to hire adventurers to bring the special ingredients you need for a cure if you don't have them?Chances are they don't have time to leave the map and come back before the patient dies.
Nah, see, that's where scholars come in. You can read through your accumulated library, and see if there's any books about were-creature cures.Excellent!
Just hope they're more accurate than mideval vampire cures.
How about, now that we have inns and taverns, you get to hire adventurers to bring the special ingredients you need for a cure if you don't have them?
Soo.... can we have zombie virus now?
If we port over a save from 0.40 to the new version, will we get visitors?Assuming the saves do stay compatible (last we heard, they were, but that could change still), visitors would be one of the few features available to old saves in the new version, since some classes of potential visitors already exist in those worlds - mercenaries, beast hunters, and such.
What is your plan regarding the rest of the literature? Will we ever see novels, epics and other "entertaining" books?
Your last post implies there are different research subjects from people like naturalists. How many more research fields are we going to see and are they going to be of any use? Are we going to see people like chemists, geologists, material scientists, and physicists making books too? An earlier post also implied stories can be told. Will books be a medium for storytelling?
Or maybe, just maybe, as a little theory, the two animal men just stood out of the mostly-unmentioned mass of dwarves, humans, and elves that surrounded them.That's a distinct possibility to be sure; the latest devlog does take on a bit of a lackadaisical meander and the devlogs go for what's interesting regardless, though usually as a contrast to the new (or intended) norm. At any rate, I'd say that even two animal men in a village should be the exception rather than the norm, for the sake of keeping them interesting.
How do the taverns work for Elves or Goblins? Dwarves and humans seem like they'd be pretty standard 'put walls around a tap and some chairs' affair. Do Elves and Goblins have taverns? Do they even have a cultural equivalent, or are you thinking that Elves/Goblins do something radically different as a passtime?
Elves/Goblins do something radically different as a passtime?
I assume the latest devlog points to the game recognizing the influence of the seasons on daylight. Do you have any ideas about how this would be expanded, if it ever is- day-night cycles in fort mode, or eternal summer days in polar regions?
Will there be plantable trees in future versions?Yes, no, maybe, no timeline; apply to the questions as needed. :P
Will the dwarven economy be fixed and republished in future versions?
Will the path finding problem of player civilization's flyer and aquatic creatures (if a aquatic creature enters a tile with over 3/7 water it will wrongly recognize that tile as dangerous terrain and start spamming "creature cancels task: dangerous terrain" and so do flyer creatures) be fixed in future versions?
Will the issue of egg laying creatures eating their own eggs be fixed in future versions?
Will hard coded buildings like smelter be soft codded?
Will hard coded raws like water be soft codded?
Will there be more multi-tile creatures like wagon?
Will amber and coral be added in the game?
Will there be more magic than necromancy be added in the game?
Will there be more threetoe's stories?
Will the "plane" features in this story (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/story/tt_journey.html) be added in the game?
They are in the game, strictly speaking, but they're not used for anything besides forgotten beasts and other randomly-generated creatures at the moment.
Will amber and coral be added in the game?
I thought amber was a gem.
Unfortunatley, we can't genetically synthesize giant megabeasts from a time before time out of vermin entobed in amber, yet :P, that'll have to be a later release.
Are coral FBs are a hint that sea FBs (AKA Krakens hype hype hype) will someday be added in the game?
I wonder how dwarves would get at coral anyway, noting their super drowning skills.Dorf Engineering. Just empty a section of the ocean.
Just hundreds of dwarves diving into the nearby ocean to collect some brain coral only to drown 3 seconds after they touch water...
I wonder how dwarves would get at coral anyway, noting their super drowning skills.Dorf Engineering. Just empty a section of the ocean.
Just hundreds of dwarves diving into the nearby ocean to collect some brain coral only to drown 3 seconds after they touch water...
More seriously, most of these questions have been answered before, and for most, the answer is "yes, but there's no timeline for it yet. At some point, there will be plantable trees, a new economy, more hard-coded stuff moved into the raws (though actual fluids like water have more problems), multi-tile creatures have gotten experimented with, magic has been mentioned for the Artifacts section, the story was partially to highlight how planes could work in the game, etcOk thanks.
Humans from around oceans sometimes bring coral crafts or at least did in older versions.
Later, will it be possible to get Dwarves to hunt properly (as in, bringing the kill back to the fortress.) with melee weapons such as spears?
Later, will it be possible to get Dwarves to hunt properly (as in, bringing the kill back to the fortress.) with melee weapons such as spears?
Will there be quests involving books or libraries?
If a visitor signs in and becomes a full member of the civilization, will he make engraving or artefact in relation to his former or his current civilisation ? I suppose he will do the same as a Dwarf would do (migrants also writes on walls about things they saw in their former locations, don't they ?), but I'm not sure.
So... does that mean [visitors]'ll go crazy if they're stuck on the map too long?
Are visitors cool with leaving through the caverns?
With the new visitors, how does the justice system interact with them? If they get upset and knock something over, do they get dragged into your jail for a bit? If one of them kills another, do your dwarves punish the murderer or is that left to an external justice tracker to handle?
[regarding fort becoming dwarfless] Will the game notice the difference? I realize the answer is probably no for the upcoming release, since it's a very peripheral feature and not a normal use case anyway. But this relates to the idea of the world perceiving player intentions, which is, unless I'm mistaken, the biggest purpose of fortress start scenarios. Will those likely have the possibility to change during play? This also seems like it could related to army arc stuff once your active fort is treated more like a normal site for the purposes of wars and you (presumably, if I understand intended future design intentions correctly) can use nobles for politicking.
And not related to that, but also a start-scenario thing: Do you have any plans yet about adding social strata beyond noble/common, such as slaves? I got to thinking of that in connection with visitors and the "Explicit standing of different citizens vs. civilization authorities" note, but it seems like it would be pretty necessary for the prison colonies in general, and could be useful depending on how fulfilling of an implementation you want with religious sites, which would arguably have hierarchy based in faith and might have relevant religious precepts, and the mining companies and military citadels which would probably be differently organized compared to the relatively anarchic situation we've got now.
Currently in the game, animal men from underground, such as Cave Swallow Men and Olm Men, can form bands of outcasts in the civilizations screen on legends. I have read you also plan on making animal men playable in adventure mode. My question is: Will it be possible to play as an animal man member of these crude animal man civilizations? Or, will we be restricted to animal men living in Dwarven, Human, Elven, and Goblin civilizations? Thanks!
In current version while megabeast/undead can still come, when playing Fortress mode goblin sieges (extremely) rarely happen and sometime not at all in dozen of years of fortress running. Will this be improved in the upcoming version ? or will all those multi-species mixing in fort will make goblin siege even less likely ?
With all these poets and philosophers in the world will there be fewer soldiers, hunters, beast tamers and other violent historic figures? Are worlds going to be a more peaceful and cultured places?
Will the scholars be able to study necromancer books? And even gain their power?
With the scenarios/law/property update, might we possibly see the return of the economy?
Will there be different burrow options for visitors/citizens/non-dwarves? What about alerts? How much control will we have over our visitors? Can I keep my visitors from running out into a goblin siege?
Will the dabbling-to-legendary scaling of professions ever change? Specially now that the master-apprentice mechanic is a thing in world gen.
Quote from: AlfrodoYour last post implies there are different research subjects from people like naturalists. How many more research fields are we going to see and are they going to be of any use? Are we going to see people like chemists, geologists, material scientists, and physicists making books too? An earlier post also implied stories can be told. Will books be a medium for storytelling?Quote from: tahu16What is your plan regarding the rest of the literature? Will we ever see novels, epics and other "entertaining" books?
Today's update suggests that excessive alcohol will effect characters, including Dwarves, adversely. If lack of alcohol continues to effect Dwarves badly, and too much alcohol also effects them badly, how does one achieve the right balance in fortress mode?
When the tavern games update happens will there specifically be drinking games or will there just be games that happen in the same space as drinking? How about drinking contests?
and
Can vampires get drunk by drinking booze? Can vampires pick up the drunkenness syndrome from feeding on drunks?
I'd love to be able to have my vampire drink a bunch of hearty dwarves under the table in a contest, goad them into a fight, and then get pleasantly drunk from the losers afterwards.
Apart from dwarfs regarding booze will addiction be based on the material/syndrome? Will there be possible withdrawal effects now that you go into recreational stuff and effects?
How will the effects of drinking take into account the unrealistically rare occurrence of drinking in fort mode? I half expect a similar issue to the were-creature one where it seems to last little time at all.
Are we likely to see some dwarves become the fort drunk?
On the topic of immoderation might we see abstinent dwarves at some point and if so is the slowing effect here to stay?
Are we likely to see creatures stagger about and move involuntarily?
Will booze stealing creatures get drunk?
Now that you are integrating inns, will there be an innkeeper job?
If yes, will the innkeeper at some point also serve dwarfs in meeting halls?
will this mean that some dwarves will use alcohol in extremis to deal with grief? will there be booze suicide spirals now?
Toady, a couple of years ago, a very heated discussion took place about the possibility of an interface API, in which you joined in and explained why this was potentially harmful to your workflow. However, a long time has passed since then and the ingeniosity and skills of many prominent bay12 members has shown that such an interface is about to become a reality, what with third party tools like DFHack. In fact, the gap between the 2014 DF release and its dfhack equivalent has shown how much the ever growing userbase has become accustomed to these third party utilities making one's life easier, and this is likely to get worse as DF complexity rises and third party tools expand in scope. So my question is, will further development of third party tools eventually make you feel the dreaded pressure you mentioned back then? Would that prompt you to revise your current noncommital view towards such tools (causing you for instance to close the utilities forum) or affect your dev cycle priorities in any way?
Toady, I am interested in how you generate the local maps in dwarf fortress, such as the maps that your adventurer and dwarfs run around in. How do you make the edges of each local map match up? How do you make sure that the elevation of a local map corresponds with the elevation of the world tile that it is within?
Also, what would you say was the most difficult and or interesting piece of creating the world generator for DF. Excluding legends and history. Is there anything else that you would like to eventually add or change with the world generation?
Did I imagine this or were there ever plans to allow world gen to be restarted/the length between retire/abandon to be tweaked so you could do the normal couple of weeks or set it to like a year, ten, a hundred?
concerning inebriation becoming a syndrome, will this be related to body size ?
will a tall, broad, muscle-and-lard-bound dwarf never be drunk? and if an already small dwarf has a few combat amputations, will they die as soon as they touch a drop?
actually, better examples: will gnomes (being the smallest guzzlers) now run into booze stockpiles and just die. and will polar bears or other large drinkers be getting drunk at all?
having size based effects seems logical but gnomes will make things hard. while having drunkenness be size independent could lead to people (me) deliberately leaving a barrel of booze out to get and giants or ettins drunk before sending in the military.
that said, I was reading the raws and I noticed that dwarves have a liver that is 50% larger than a humans, so...
do you plan on making drunkenness (and/or any other syndromes) strength/duration be related to liver size?
(and then maybe make gnomes livers take up most of their chest cavities?)
Toady, since we now have both retiring forts and you are adding in more free-wheeling caravans, traders, wanderers and hill-dwarves, plus there are going to be starting scenarios, I'm curious about how you want retired player forts to interact with active player forts in the long run. Are you going to try to get towards a retirement system where forts have saved import needs/export capacities or other pushes/pulls upon new player forts?
(I.E. build a new fort to support the next fort or sustain your last fort. "The mountainhomes need steel, set up a mine, and export iron or steel." "The mountainhomes is rich in steel, now we need you to build a watchpost at this location and train these steel-clad but rookie soldiers into stalwart defenders of the realm.")
Do you consider potential goals like potential "mock-simultaneous" play or taking steps to encourage succession multiplayer across multiple forts (sharing world saves after abandoning/retiring) as a means of encouraging play in a shared history worthwhile? For that matter, how much is this notion of compounding historic depth still a driver of your focus as a developer after all this time?
Will barfights inspire troubles later on or is it forgive and forget type stuff for non-serious brawling?
Will forgotten beasts be able to infect syndromes like they can that are already linked? Paticularly Alcohol?
I'm not talking about alcohol breath. I'm talking about contact poisoning or other contamination issue that increases the alcohol consumption flag. Or other already present syndromes.
Hey Toady, can syndrome concentrations be reduced, or can syndromes be otherwise directly 'cured' rather than simply counter-acted (removing the syndrome, such that the afflicted isn't now afflicted with a syndrome with opposite effects, but is no longer affected by the original syndrome) now?
How do the taverns work for Elves or Goblins? Dwarves and humans seem like they'd be pretty standard 'put walls around a tap and some chairs' affair. Do Elves and Goblins have taverns? Do they even have a cultural equivalent, or are you thinking that Elves/Goblins do something radically different as a passtime?
Visitors are drawn from historical figures rather than randomly generated, right? Is it possible to follow around mercenaries, dance troupes and such in adventure mode and see them visit and settle in fortresses? Or to be a visitor yourself and petition for citizenship in one of your own retired forts?
Will I be able to recreate the Casablanca moment where the goblin occupation forces sing their songs in the Inn, and as I start to sing the anthem of oppressed folk other join me outvoicing the hated goblins?
Are coral FBs are a hint that sea FBs (AKA Krakens hype hype hype) will someday be added in the game?
Later, will it be possible to get Dwarves to hunt properly (as in, bringing the kill back to the fortress.) with melee weapons such as spears?
Will there be quests involving books or libraries?
Quote from: RobsoieIn current version while megabeast/undead can still come, when playing Fortress mode goblin sieges (extremely) rarely happen and sometime not at all in dozen of years of fortress running. Will this be improved in the upcoming version ? or will all those multi-species mixing in fort will make goblin siege even less likely ?
There was one pathing error that has been fixed for the next version that should improve the frequencies in some cases (some mountain embarks). We'll have to see where it goes from there. The species mixing doesn't change anything..
I'm pretty sure procedural FBs pull from all available syndromes. So what I am asking is basically would a giant butterfly FB be able to infect the drunk syndrome into it's victim from it's poisonous powder in a manner that plays nice with current drunk syndrome, making an alcohol based drunk even drunker on FB butterfly dust.Quote from: Kogan LoloklamWill forgotten beasts be able to infect syndromes like they can that are already linked? Paticularly Alcohol?
I'm not talking about alcohol breath. I'm talking about contact poisoning or other contamination issue that increases the alcohol consumption flag. Or other already present syndromes.
I haven't generated any of them like that. A creature in your raws could use the alcohol syndrome though. I might be misunderstanding though.
The last time I went in there, we had another animal person sighting with a buggy peach faced love bird woman necromancer. She used to be a mercenary so she thought she was supposed to be bar-hopping, even though she had students back in her evil tower. That's fixed up now. It makes me look forward to a time when the boundaries of who is where can be a little more fuzzy.
Booze guzzlers are affected like other creatures.
We should have our first adventure mode performers trying their very best to entertain the community in a few days.
Will a dwarf keep him/herself from consuming an unhealthy amount of booze?
They don't understand cause and effect with respect to syndrome emotions, so they don't know how to self-medicate.
Quote from: thedrellewill this mean that some dwarves will use alcohol in extremis to deal with grief? will there be booze suicide spirals now?
They don't understand cause and effect with respect to syndrome emotions, so they don't know how to self-medicate.
Quote from: Max^TMWill barfights inspire troubles later on or is it forgive and forget type stuff for non-serious brawling?
Bit of an obvious question, but will performances affect your fame, and will that mean you can get more people to follow you? Also, is fame one absolute value for each civ, or will a bard be able to get more singers than spearmen as companions?Well if you can gain fame, then it's now the only way to do so without also being known as a killer by everyone, so there's that at least already.
Oh god, adventurer performances make more sense than I was thinking at first.It'd be hilarious to get fame from a masterful telling of a rather pedantic achievement. Basically the beginning of stand-up comedy and/or motivational speakers.
Will it be possible to spread knowledge of your deeds/increase your fame through these performances? Will the success of doing so depend on your skill in the performance?
So just basic telling people will work as it does, while blowing people away with a bardic tale and dance will lead to it being spread faster/people recognizing the tale itself and not just the deed?
You've mentioned that drunkenness is related to bodysize, but that suggests that humans will be less likely to be drunk than dwarves, which sounds backwards. Especially since alcohol functions like water in dwarven biology (otherwise they would not suffer slowness when drinking only water). Will there be a method by which dwarves are less susceptible to drunkeness?
You've mentioned that drunkenness is related to bodysize, but that suggests that humans will be less likely to be drunk than dwarves, which sounds backwards. Especially since alcohol functions like water in dwarven biology (otherwise they would not suffer slowness when drinking only water). Will there be a method by which dwarves are less susceptible to drunkeness?
He also said that drunkenness will be counteracted by disease resistance. If dwarven disease resistance is sufficiently high relative to human disease resistance, it would balance out their relative sizes.
Additionally, it was my impression that Toady is removing the negative effects of sobriety as part of this next release.
I'm not entirely certain how the most extreme abstinent dwarves are going to be handled in the long run. Either the slowing effect will go, or there just won't be dwarves that are that abstinent (at least personality-wise -- there could be room for philosophically abstinent dwarves).
Currently marriage are a male and a female start with socializing, developing the relation into the marriage in the end.Well, since 0.40 it could be a male and a male or a female and a female.
Currently marriage are a male and a female start with socializing, developing the relation into the marriage in the end.Well, since 0.40 it could be a male and a male or a female and a female.
I don't actually keep giant insects, but everyone complains about how their GCS are homosexual, as they're much more valuable when breedable. I chose this example because not only is failure to breed GCS frustrating, it is also odd, as while I've obseverved animals like horses and cats being a little experimental in this regard, I am not sure how possible it even is for two same-gendered insects to engage in sexual activity, or for a male insect to choose to do so solely with male rather than female ones, or vice versa. I'm aware that people have suggested that this change, I just wondered if its going to happen.
That raises the question (for me at least): Were people homophobic in the medieval ages?
QuoteThat raises the question (for me at least): Were people homophobic in the medieval ages?
If by "medieval ages" you meant medieval ages in Europe (if you don't, then the term "medieval ages" doesn't refer to anything, so please be more specific), the reply is yes, a lot. There could be acts that would be considered as homosexual acts today, sometimes in Orders, chivalry and places with rituals and only men, but it was as such forbidden and heavily repressed. (Think of the Knights Templar, who were accused of homosexuality and burnt for that, which gives you a strong evidence of how it was viewed).
Europe isnt the Navel of the world, there were so many things happening elsewhere and personally i see Dwarf fortress humans as pretty much prechristian. Then again i do hope that we get some much better Civilisations stuff, laws and such were the legality and asseption can bet better reflected.
I haven't said it was. The question of jwoodward48df was about medieval times, and as "Medieval ages" only exists in Europe, and is well defined in space and time, I replied. Of course, if you go back (Roman Ages), or further (Renaissance) or elsewhere, the reply is different. That's why I told it was only right for "Medieval ages", as asked in the question.I wouldn't say it's well-defined in Europe either. When does late antiquity end and the early middle ages begin? The crowning of Charlemagne has Holy Roman Emperor? When does the late middle ages end? The Peace of Westphalia? Those are sort of the most well-regarded dates, certainly with regards to medieval feudalism, social order, and the role of the church which are the biggest things we think of as defining the medieval period, but they're more of a German history than a European history.
Will I be able to sing songs of my defeated foes mid-battle?
*slaughter this guy*
"I slaughtered this guy!"
*slaughter that guy*
"I slaughtered that guy!"
You've mentioned that drunkenness is related to bodysize, but that suggests that humans will be less likely to be drunk than dwarves, which sounds backwards. Especially since alcohol functions like water in dwarven biology (otherwise they would not suffer slowness when drinking only water). Will there be a method by which dwarves are less susceptible to drunkeness?
He also said that drunkenness will be counteracted by disease resistance. If dwarven disease resistance is sufficiently high relative to human disease resistance, it would balance out their relative sizes.
Additionally, it was my impression that Toady is removing the negative effects of sobriety as part of this next release.
Oh god, adventurer performances make more sense than I was thinking at first.This was just answered partially at least.
Will it be possible to spread knowledge of your deeds/increase your fame through these performances? Will the success of doing so depend on your skill in the performance?
So just basic telling people will work as it does, while blowing people away with a bardic tale and dance will lead to it being spread faster/people recognizing the tale itself and not just the deed?
Is reputation as an artist going to get broadened to include non-performing arts which are already in the game, such as sculpting/statuary?I would presume, eventually.
Like dose engravings of masterful POSTS, you mean?
Will you add some method for adventurers or fortress citizens to learn how to read soon? Will fortress mode scribes even need to know how to read? And finally will there be any reason to read books in adventurer mode?
Will I be able to sing songs of my defeated foes mid-battle?
*slaughter this guy*
"I slaughtered this guy!"
*slaughter that guy*
"I slaughtered that guy!"
Is reputation as an artist going to get broadened to include non-performing arts which are already in the game, such as sculpting/statuary?
Do you have any plans for lower order "magical" items in the Artifact arc?I thought that was basically what the quality levels are. A masterwork is a +x sword or whatnot.
I know you want to avoid the convention of "+20 flaming swords", and that artifacts are meant to be a rarity. Yet, a little (if commonplace) magic does keep things interesting in games like D&D, Skyrim, and Dungeon Crawl.
Masterpieces are currently the next best thing to Artifacts. Still, potions are planned, and Threetoe's stories seem to have a bit of lesser "hedge magic". I think Dwarf fortress can provide context to "throwaway" items in ways other games can't, and it doesn't have to signpost their effect's either.
Furthermore, judging byit seems like mundane equipment could be a lot more- unexpected.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
What do you think?
Many games site your work as inspiration/influence to their game, and many games seek to be fortress likes, do you ever worry about other games outpacing dwarf fortress?
^Now I'm wondering if it would be possible to put something like the adventurer travel map above the fort mode minimap with dfhack.
About seeing around your fortress, I think that it would be really memory and cpu intensive to have the fortress mode open, unless the parts of the map are separated and loaded individually as it's own site, one by one (obviously not at the same time). It would be like managing several fortress at the same time. Which granted would be really cool, but we(and our computers) can't manage a simple one, let alone several at the same time.
Other interesting idea/suggestion would be to send an explorer that take "snapshots" of the arounds of your fortress, each time he comes back you can see what he "recorded", that's it, the shape of the terrain, were trees are, if there where some animals. The better memory the dwarf have, the most detailed and accurate the description is. You could enter those as simple snapshots without being able to explore beyond it, move or do thing on it. Kind of like those snapshots of fortress that some people upload on the internet with some kind of black magic I don't know.
But I'm digressing. On point being able to momentarily "retire" the fortress, load the arounds and then come back could be pretty awesome.
I've been doing the particulars of the scholar occupation in the fort over the last few days, mostly making sure it plays nice with world generation and that everything advances at roughly the same rate. This means that having one random dwarf assigned to the library with no skills might not advance the state of the world's knowledge even after years of confused research (as I did with my miner, who immediately started pondering whether probing would make a good surgical technique). You can make quite a bit of progress if you attract some dedicated scholars and support them with your own scholars and scribes, probably more than any world generation site over the same number of years since you can expend all your effort toward the work, but it still takes time. Depending on how gregarious they are, scholars will tend toward discussing their topic with other researchers or working by themselves. Scholars will read books that you have on hand to avoid duplicating results, though I haven't yet duplicated the master-apprentice model from world gen (I'll probably have time to do something simple there), and they can commit their results to writing (which the scribes will then copy).From the dev log (http://bay12games.com/dwarves/).
QuoteI've been doing the particulars of the scholar occupation in the fort over the last few days, mostly making sure it plays nice with world generation and that everything advances at roughly the same rate. This means that having one random dwarf assigned to the library with no skills might not advance the state of the world's knowledge even after years of confused research (as I did with my miner, who immediately started pondering whether probing would make a good surgical technique). You can make quite a bit of progress if you attract some dedicated scholars and support them with your own scholars and scribes, probably more than any world generation site over the same number of years since you can expend all your effort toward the work, but it still takes time. Depending on how gregarious they are, scholars will tend toward discussing their topic with other researchers or working by themselves. Scholars will read books that you have on hand to avoid duplicating results, though I haven't yet duplicated the master-apprentice model from world gen (I'll probably have time to do something simple there), and they can commit their results to writing (which the scribes will then copy).From the dev log (http://bay12games.com/dwarves/).
I remember, I was just wondering how books would come into being in Fortress mode.
But I didn't remember that post because... well. look to the left.
Well THAT sounds fascinating as hell!^Now I'm wondering if it would be possible to put something like the adventurer travel map above the fort mode minimap with dfhack.
This gave me an idea of instantiating an adventure mode screen on top of the fortress screen. It somewhat worked and I was able to walk around, and my dwarves were talking to each other... Most likely useless but very fun.
Why are goblin sieges so small? The largest one I've seen had 30 goblins. In the previous version the sieges were much larger, and armies in world gen seem to consist of hundreds or even thousands of soldiers.They at least can be larger than 30, but reports of this are rare and tend to be from fairly long lived forts.
Will goblin warriors become more skilled in the future?
More highly trained attacking soldiers when approprateFrom the improved sieges section of the dev page (http://bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html).
This doesn't impact specific ethics yet, so you won't have to worry that an elf-written book will make all your dwarves start eating dead bodies, but such a thing is now threatened for a later date by these changes.Thus were the book burnings and inquisitions of later versions set in motion.
Quote from: Toady OneThis doesn't impact specific ethics yet, so you won't have to worry that an elf-written book will make all your dwarves start eating dead bodies, but such a thing is now threatened for a later date by these changes.Thus were the book burnings and inquisitions of later versions set in motion.
Do you plan to add randomly generated books of magic(not just necromancy)?
It would be interesting if gods didn't have only one type of controlled magic to bestow.
Would be possible to have some impromptu poem or sing a song made on the fly on a conversation, you know, in the sake of the arts of seduction?Anyone who taunts Giant Cave Spiders with Tomnoddy and Attercop will be summarily executed :)
Why are goblin sieges so small? The largest one I've seen had 30 goblins. In the previous version the sieges were much larger, and armies in world gen seem to consist of hundreds or even thousands of soldiers.They at least can be larger than 30, but reports of this are rare and tend to be from fairly long lived forts.Will goblin warriors become more skilled in the future?QuoteMore highly trained attacking soldiers when approprateFrom the improved sieges \section of the dev page (http://bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html).
Why are goblin sieges so small? The largest one I've seen had 30 goblins. In the previous version the sieges were much larger, and armies in world gen seem to consist of hundreds or even thousands of soldiers.They at least can be larger than 30, but reports of this are rare and tend to be from fairly long lived forts.Will goblin warriors become more skilled in the future?QuoteMore highly trained attacking soldiers when approprateFrom the improved sieges \section of the dev page (http://bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html).
I just got a siege of 90 goblins and trolls at my DF2014 fort. (Though it is a dozen years old, and at a point where a siege that size was a mere inconvenience rather than a challenge)
Probably, there are recorded instances where the player's pawn, is crying from the action that the player is forcing the pawn to do, as it violates their mores and ethics. Though Toadyone and ThreeToe have said that they wouldnt ever make the game prevent a player's action because it went against morals and ethics.Why are goblin sieges so small? The largest one I've seen had 30 goblins. In the previous version the sieges were much larger, and armies in world gen seem to consist of hundreds or even thousands of soldiers.They at least can be larger than 30, but reports of this are rare and tend to be from fairly long lived forts.Will goblin warriors become more skilled in the future?QuoteMore highly trained attacking soldiers when approprateFrom the improved sieges \section of the dev page (http://bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html).
I just got a siege of 90 goblins and trolls at my DF2014 fort. (Though it is a dozen years old, and at a point where a siege that size was a mere inconvenience rather than a challenge)
You are a lucky man. I have to get my founding dwarves to sneak into goblin territory to get that.
Will reading philosophy books in adventure mode modify your own adventurer's values / ethics?
Probably, there are recorded instances where the player's pawn, is crying from the action that the player is forcing the pawn to do, as it violates their mores and ethics. Though Toadyone and ThreeToe have said that they wouldnt ever make the game prevent a player's action because it went against morals and ethics.
QuoteProbably, there are recorded instances where the player's pawn, is crying from the action that the player is forcing the pawn to do, as it violates their mores and ethics. Though Toadyone and ThreeToe have said that they wouldnt ever make the game prevent a player's action because it went against morals and ethics.
So I could get my adventurer to read Goblin philosophy to make them not sad?
Excellent.
A tag, you say? Is it possible for intelligent megabeasts/semimegas to join civilizations, or perhaps even player fortresses in this manner?Quote from: SpishSince wild animal men are now eligible for immigration, will it also be possible to mod feral creatures like, for instance, gnomes and trolls to be able to join civilizations?
It'll be possible to mod it, though only gorlaks have the setting in vanilla. The game doesn't recognize animal people in any special way -- I've just put a new creature tag in their creature variation (and the gorlak def).
You can actually form a band and go from town to town trying to get famous.
I think he implied that they had to have a bit of a taste for music... wonder if they'd demand a song before every fight they got involved with :P
Heck, I could see that happening in fortress mode:
"Urist McCandyarmour cancels kill Noku Evilhell the Gruesome Slayer of Gods: no music."
With the worlds of Dwarf Fortress being somewhat dangerous, is it possible to hire fighting types with no real interest in the arts to join your troupe as bodyguards?You could always have some companions that aren't members of the troupe. Brings up a related question, though:
I imagine a goblin dark fortress launch an invasion to try to conquer your multi-species fortress.
Your fortress contains goblins that of course came from their original goblin site, that happens to be the one launching the invasion.
So invading goblins and defending ones may have some common faction/group membership and some may even be relatives.
With this multi-specie mix, will we then see much more loyalty cascades when siege is coming ?
Or will there be some change to that faction system ?
would a giant butterfly FB be able to infect the drunk syndrome into it's victim from it's poisonous powder in a manner that plays nice with current drunk syndrome, making an alcohol based drunk even drunker on FB butterfly dust.
But also anything with exposure flags. Will procedural based syndrome effects be able to tick a common flag. Like drunkenness. Taking them from buzzed to alcohol poisoned even though there was no alcohol.
Does this mean creatures with the CURIOUSBEAST_GUZZLER tag can all be gotten drunk to some degree? Outside of tiny creatures like the gnomes would it be possible for creatures to drink themselves unconscious or to death if they're offered enough booze? I guess what I'm asking is whether I can get giants and ettins strategically drunk by setting out booze stockpiles.
Will a dwarf keep him/herself from consuming an unhealthy amount of booze?
Will [drunken self-medication] still be implemented in the future? I'm particularly interested in seeing it used against not just grief/trauma, but also fears and phobias. (It's not wise, but it happens.)
Is it possible for dwarves of certain personality types to bond over tavern brawls, rather than have it be always solely a negative factor in their relationship?
Toady, because of the schedule conflicts you've had with Rainseeker and Captaintastic, would you ever be open to inviting other forum members to DFtalk?
Will it be possible to spread knowledge of your deeds/increase your fame through these performances? Will the success of doing so depend on your skill in the performance?
So just basic telling people will work as it does, while blowing people away with a bardic tale and dance will lead to it being spread faster/people recognizing the tale itself and not just the deed?
Bit of an obvious question, but will performances affect your fame, and will that mean you can get more people to follow you? Also, is fame one absolute value for each civ, or will a bard be able to get more singers than spearmen as companions?
Dwarves are typically highly racist and isolationist, making multi-species forts a rarity in fantasy. How will that be reflected in-game, do we get different racism values between civs or options to have a dwarf-only fort?
You've mentioned that drunkenness is related to bodysize, but that suggests that humans will be less likely to be drunk than dwarves, which sounds backwards. Especially since alcohol functions like water in dwarven biology (otherwise they would not suffer slowness when drinking only water). Will there be a method by which dwarves are less susceptible to drunkeness?
Quote from: RobsoieRegarding the philosopher/culture changes potentials, i was wondering about marriage by example.
Currently marriage are a male and a female start with socializing, developing the relation into the marriage in the end.
That's one of the way it happens in real world, but in real world there are very different cultures, in which marriage does not happen this way, by example marriage can be decided by parents of the male and the female, marriage can be polygamy with a man being married to several female (polygyny) and more rarely a female being married to several males (polyandry) and probably more ways.
Will a civ , influenced by a specific philosophy/philospher, be able to change its marriage culture to fit a different way from what happens in current version ?
Additionally, about religions, will there be an equivalent to philosophers in the religious domain, spreading their religion ? i can imagine with some cults trying to gain power, or to isolate from other, or to influence rulers, etc... even leading a civilisation to wage war against another, even within the same entity ?Quote from: vjmdhzgrWell, since 0.40 it could be a male and a male or a female and a female.Quote from: RobsoieAh yes, i completely forgot about that one.
That then add more to my question about the different types of marriages in regards to specific civ culture changes :
Will there be cultures spread by a philosopher into a civ that would set them to ignore or allow or disallow gay marriages ?
Will I be able to sing songs of my defeated foes mid-battle?
Will you add some method for adventurers or fortress citizens to learn how to read soon? Will fortress mode scribes even need to know how to read? And finally will there be any reason to read books in adventurer mode?
Is reputation as an artist going to get broadened to include non-performing arts which are already in the game, such as sculpting/statuary?
Quote from: Novel ScoopsDo you have any plans for lower order "magical" items in the Artifact arc?Quote from: FallacyofUristDo you plan to add randomly generated books of magic(not just necromancy)?
It would be interesting if gods didn't have only one type of controlled magic to bestow.
Will all drinks be hardcoded to induce drunkenness or would it be possible for modders to create what would essentially amount to non-alcoholic drinks by omitting a syndrome tag?
Will there be any changes/additions to Legends mode, and if so, which are they?
Will you be able to drink/sleep/dance at a tavern from your retired fort in adventure mode?
Many games site your work as inspiration/influence to their game, and many games seek to be fortress likes, do you ever worry about other games outpacing dwarf fortress?
My question: is it likely that for this release or one of the upcoming releases, you will put in an ability for us to open the world map while in fortress mode? Simply having the ability to see which cities are where would make that news much more accessible and engaging.
Also, with the ability for people to tell stories and sing songs, I imagine that with the upcoming release, we will have visitors coming to our taverns and sharing even more news from the outside world.
As we have with the outpost liaison, would there be a similar notification or interaction system with tavern visitors?
Hey Toady, Do you have plans to reset or clean up the eternal suggestion system? What about doing another feature run based on the top suggestions?
Would books, like performances. Be able to be written in adventure mode provided you have a blank codice or scroll?
Why are goblin sieges so small? The largest one I've seen had 30 goblins. In the previous version the sieges were much larger, and armies in world gen seem to consist of hundreds or even thousands of soldiers.
Why don't the besieging goblins have cavalry? Haven't seen a single goblin riding a creature in this version.
You mentioned being able to make codices and scrolls in fortress mode, but what will dwarves writing be like? Will they just do it themselves when they feel like it or will you be able to shout at your writer/wordsmith/scribe I need a book and I need it now!
I.e. Will it be similar to the current state of strange moods or like engravings?
Just to clarify: if a philosophical outlook becomes popular can it change civilization or individual values now? Or do they just become familiar with a value position in order to write a reply? Can a goblin civilization be won over to the value of art or ...craftsgoblinship?
Would be possible to have some impromptu poem or sing a song made on the fly on a conversation, you know, in the sake of the arts of seduction?
Will reading philosophy books in adventure mode modify your own adventurer's values / ethics?
A tag [for gorlak/etc. visitors], you say? Is it possible for intelligent megabeasts/semimegas to join civilizations, or perhaps even player fortresses in this manner?
With the worlds of Dwarf Fortress being somewhat dangerous, is it possible to hire fighting types with no real interest in the arts to join your troupe as bodyguards?
Is it possible for the player to establish a troupe and leave it, with the troupe remaining functional?
How are the outcomes of world gen battles resolved? I've sometimes seen severely outnumbered armies win the battle despite losing three quarters of their warriors and their leader, with the enemy leader still alive and their casualties moderate. I also think that the leader's skills matter.
Quote from: NJW2000Bit of an obvious question, but will performances affect your fame, and will that mean you can get more people to follow you? Also, is fame one absolute value for each civ, or will a bard be able to get more singers than spearmen as companions?
Yeah, your performance reputation increases your maximum number of followers, though that still depends mostly on your social stats. Your reputation is in many categories (there are 4 types of entertainment fame currently), and it doesn't influence out-of-category people nearly as much, and you still need skills in the right category (art vs. battle) to get skilled people.
Quote from: Xazo-TakWill I be able to sing songs of my defeated foes mid-battle?
The ones you've defeated in previous battles, yeah, and probably even the ones defeated in the current battle so far, I think, because they get incident reports/rumors as right they go down.
How much, if any, control do you plan to give the player over caps like this? I only ask because we have editable pop caps and the like so players can adjust depending on how good a PC they have and how few FPS they can handle.Quote from: Daniel the FinlanderWhy are goblin sieges so small? The largest one I've seen had 30 goblins. In the previous version the sieges were much larger, and armies in world gen seem to consist of hundreds or even thousands of soldiers.
The pathing problem that's been handled for next time will have them appear more often. -snip- The sizes of the armies sent to player fortresses are still governed by some ramp-up code for gamey reasons (so they never reach w.g. sizes -- which is also a cpu thing), and they are now also capped by who's actually available, so a few things could keep the sizes down. Then again, I'm not really sure what the final caps should be at this point. Maybe they are a bit low.
Related to the multi-species fortress, without having to use the "kill" order from a squad, will you be able to prevent/block entrance to migrants that you suspect are possible spies/there to undermine your fort (migrant coming from a civ you're directly at war with by example) , or are demon worshippers bent on spreading evil (goblins by example) ?I'm pretty sure he's said he's not getting into spies or any other potential harmful visitors to a fortress for quite a long time now. Also I'm pretty sure that visitors have to ask to join your fortress permanently which allows you to choose whether or not you want them to join at which point you could deny them. Or you could lock doors, or drop them into pits of magma like you already can.
Related to the multi-species fortress, without having to use the "kill" order from a squad, will you be able to prevent/block entrance to migrants that you suspect are possible spies/there to undermine your fort (migrant coming from a civ you're directly at war with by example) , or are demon worshippers bent on spreading evil (goblins by example) ?I'm pretty sure he's said he's not getting into spies or any other potential harmful visitors to a fortress for quite a long time now.
It is sad but not unexpected , hopefully he will consider this in his future development arcs, so much fun and FUN! potential in having some of your fortress citizens actually working against you.
Will artists or otherwise copy other's performances without the original performer explicitly teaching them? Can performances or stories be circulated independent from the original performer?What do you mean? Like watching the performance then just doing it, without any teaching?
Thanks, I realize the green's needed, but for some reason the formatting tags don't appear on this computer.It's just this:
[color=limegreen]...[/color]
Edit: also copyable in the first post, for future reference.Will there be guards or anything to protect temples from desecration and give a challenge to adventurer looking for vampirification ? (especially as vampire curse is more like a big bonus instead of an actual curse in adventure mode)For the time being. I think (or hope at least) eventually there will be more challenges after becoming a vampire.
Will there be guards or anything to protect temples from desecration and give a challenge to adventurer looking for vampirification ? (especially as vampire curse is more like a big bonus instead of an actual curse in adventure mode)I think damage from sunlight would be an easy way to make bloodsucking less popular. And by damage, I don't mean sparkling >:(
I expect some sort of divine plague retribution is a goal which is another step closer with the temple desecration in play.
I haven't seen goblins use mounts or war animals in 0.40, are they going to come back in the next version?
I'm not sure about the beakdogs -- it checks the site pops for them when it prepares the invading army to leave their site, but perhaps they fail to keep them in world gen properly. I'll check.
I haven't seen goblins use mounts or war animals in 0.40, are they going to come back in the next version?
This was addressed in Toady's last FotF update.I'm not sure about the beakdogs -- it checks the site pops for them when it prepares the invading army to leave their site, but perhaps they fail to keep them in world gen properly. I'll check.
Will artists or otherwise copy other's performances without the original performer explicitly teaching them? Can performances or stories be circulated independent from the original performer?What do you mean? Like watching the performance then just doing it, without any teaching?
Cause there been stories in the Dev Log of troupes carrying on traditions and performance after the originator of the troupe, and their songs/dance left the group. So you can be taught different styles and dances/songs other then its originators.
It's sad that secret vampires aren't secret anymore, it was fun in past version to not notice one got into a migrant wave.
Will artists or otherwise copy other's performances without the original performer explicitly teaching them? Can performances or stories be circulated independent from the original performer?What do you mean? Like watching the performance then just doing it, without any teaching?
Cause there been stories in the Dev Log of troupes carrying on traditions and performance after the originator of the troupe, and their songs/dance left the group. So you can be taught different styles and dances/songs other then its originators.
Like an artist seeing a performance and copying it (with or without the originator's permission), or just anyone hearing a cool story and repeating it later.
Will there be ethnic cleansings in multi-race civs?There aren't any intra-civ genocides in the current multi-race civs, and changing that isn't within the scope of the release. The changes were mostly for the multi-race fortresses that now become viable, and I'm sure you can adjust existing traps to kill whoever you don't want.
It's sad that secret vampires aren't secret anymore, it was fun in past version to not notice one got into a migrant wave.I'm pretty sure that Toady just meant that vampires that get cursed at your fortress are revealed immediately, world generation ones will still be secret. Also I think werebeasts are curses along with vampires, making it 3 curses. The main question you asked is still good though.
About curses
In current version, there are 2 curses, one in worldgen that can make a npc into a vampire when he offend a deity and one at gameplay time when you attract the sight of a mummy in a tomb .
None of those curses can be currently dispelled/removed in any ways out of death, so assuming there may be some more curses type in the future, will there be additionally some way to dispell/remove them ?
What are your plans (if any) to present legends mode information to players in a more organic (in-game) way?I thought it was kinda funny when I saw an ant man soldier become obsessed with its own mortality and try to extend its life by any means... then die of old age in less than a year.
It's sad that secret vampires aren't secret anymore, it was fun in past version to not notice one got into a migrant wave.You read it wrongly. Vampires coming with migrants are still secret. Only those desecrating in fortress mode aren't.
Being cursed by vengeful gods every time a temple gets messed with (always) sounds a little gamey to me. Will we ever have options for worldgen to tone down direct divine influence like that?
Being cursed by vengeful gods every time a temple gets messed with (always) sounds a little gamey to me. Will we ever have options for worldgen to tone down direct divine influence like that?
Can't you already, with no. of vampire curse types? Or does that just do the number of variations?
Being cursed by vengeful gods every time a temple gets messed with (always) sounds a little gamey to me. Will we ever have options for worldgen to tone down direct divine influence like that?If current Legends are any indication, then only a select few deities will be cursehappy; the rest don't really seem to care.
Being cursed by vengeful gods every time a temple gets messed with (always) sounds a little gamey to me. Will we ever have options for worldgen to tone down direct divine influence like that?
Those who don't seem to care mostly don't have temples to be desecrated. Temples are mostly only built in large human cities (I suppose the next version may have dwarf temples), and only two of them, I believe. And I think there's also still a tendency that only a few gods keep getting selected for temple building.Being cursed by vengeful gods every time a temple gets messed with (always) sounds a little gamey to me. Will we ever have options for worldgen to tone down direct divine influence like that?If current Legends are any indication, then only a select few deities will be cursehappy; the rest don't really seem to care.
Will the fake deities be able to have their own temples to help cover they're in fact demons impersonating a deity ?I thought that demons impersonated a "real" deity. If that's the case, then the temple would even "work" by cursing people who desecrate it.
Quote from: Novel ScoopsDo you have any plans for lower order "magical" items in the Artifact arc?Quote from: FallacyofUristDo you plan to add randomly generated books of magic(not just necromancy)?
It would be interesting if gods didn't have only one type of controlled magic to bestow.
The Artifact arc will indeed be doing a few additional things -- we've mentioned the myth generator, and that by itself already sets up a lot of possibilities, some very quick and easy. Mainly what we're doing now is trying to really narrow it down to a few focused pushes so we don't end up with a 2 year magic release. We'll have more details on what makes the cut as that approaches.
The upcoming release is part 1 of the taverns arc, which will be followed by part 2 (Presumably? Toady might be bored of fun and games by now). Then the artifact arc is due to begin. So it's going to be quite a while (years?) before we see the myth generator.
Toady, are you getting close enough to hint at what might make the cut in myth generation for the upcoming release?
Also, are there any raw changes that are firm enough that you feel comfortable discussing them yet? (And hopefully at least part of the myth generator is in the raws...)
Will History ever have events that are less solo-fights and wars and more like... A group of people teaming up on a monster? or is the solo meant to reflect that he is the "leader"?
Will History ever have events that are less solo-fights and wars and more like... A group of people teaming up on a monster? or is the solo meant to reflect that he is the "leader"?
The current system doesn't simulate actual battles. It's more like 5000 Elves and 5000 dwarves line up and then, literally, take turns combating single opponenets until the battle ends.
But hopefully at some point we can have the battles be more.. err, battle-esq.
Yeah, and I thought that a lot of the stuff in world gen descriptions didn't happen in game.What, really? I want to see!
Then I walked into a town with bodies impaled on stakes and tied to trees with ropes and such.
Sounds morbid to call it a magical experience, but it really was.
The top few images of this album: http://imgur.com/a/K7TEyYeah, and I thought that a lot of the stuff in world gen descriptions didn't happen in game.What, really? I want to see!
Then I walked into a town with bodies impaled on stakes and tied to trees with ropes and such.
Sounds morbid to call it a magical experience, but it really was.
The top few images of this album: http://imgur.com/a/K7TEyYeah, and I thought that a lot of the stuff in world gen descriptions didn't happen in game.What, really? I want to see!
Then I walked into a town with bodies impaled on stakes and tied to trees with ropes and such.
Sounds morbid to call it a magical experience, but it really was.
I was honestly amazed.
Also super excited because I saw Toady noting that reactions will be able to preserve artifact status. Being able to add decorations and whatnot to existing artifacts suddenly becomes an option, among other things.
If you ever hae the game to the point where dwarves can be impaled in fortress mode, will the dwarves both be depressed yet have good thoughts from being impaled on their favorite wood?
If you ever hae the game to the point where dwarves can be impaled in fortress mode, will the dwarves both be depressed yet have good thoughts from being impaled on their favorite wood?Urist felt annoyance after recieving a major wound recently. Urist felt pleasure after admiring a fine mahogany spear recently.
Will History ever have events that are less solo-fights and wars and more like... A group of people teaming up on a monster? or is the solo meant to reflect that he is the "leader"?
The current system doesn't simulate actual battles. It's more like 5000 Elves and 5000 dwarves line up and then, literally, take turns combating single opponenets until the battle ends.
But hopefully at some point we can have the battles be more.. err, battle-esq.
That's why you have experienced, heavily armed and armored demigod necromancers being taken out by puppies in world gen.
I'm guessing that kobolds won't be able to take part in poetry and written traditions.ee cummings (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._E._Cummings) had the [UTTERANCES] tag ;)
You have odd objectives, even for DF.Hey, man no judging. I just want to be a legendary bard.
will people be able to get married outside of their respective species in the new version?
Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!
Will you be able to lie about achievements, like persuading a demon you that it was you(ergo, not you) who wiped out the entire Murderfurnace civilization single-handedly?
Will it be possible for expert soldiers to take apprentices instead of following normal barracks training routines (eventually)? Fighting styles as a later goal are listed on the dev page, and I was wondering if veteran soldiers could eventually take some less seasoned troops and teach them a new method they came up with, or just give them general training in a more direct way than the usual.He answers this question right in blog post. Generalized Apprentice Master relationship will take more work, and they'll work on it later.
Can we mod random beast/interactions generator? I would like to change undead stats and give bigger cooldown for webbers, it is possible to mod GCS like this, but not random beasts. Is it possible to add this generators in raws?Eventually that should happen, but not in the foreseeable future. Toady has mentioned a few times that dragons are a prime target for "raw-based" random generation.
will people be able to get married outside of their respective species in the new version?Very unlikely. The work Toady did was mostly to make multiracial fortresses work from what he said, not to expand the existing multiracial entities. If it does happen, it'd be probably an unintended behavior.
Will there be cursed NPCs that seek a cure, seek to hurt as few people as possible and even some that seek to spread the curse more than they want to kill?The first would require that there are cures. I'd expect that it's an eventual goal that some werecurses/vampires allow struggling against the monster side or embracing it for ambitions more, as those are pretty common tropes in stories.
Edit: To clarify I'm only talking about NPCs cursed with the werebeast/vampire curse.
Will scholars be attracted to your fortress based on what literature you have? As in, if you have a lot of books related to medicine will you get visitors with medical skills looking to study there? Perhaps we'd finally have a reliable way to train doctors.
Will scholars be attracted to your fortress based on what literature you have? As in, if you have a lot of books related to medicine will you get visitors with medical skills looking to study there? Perhaps we'd finally have a reliable way to train doctors.
Knowledge has no impact on skills, so even if your scholars know all about medicine they won't be any better at bone-setting or anything else used in fort mode.
I think they mean training doctors by getting doctors to migrate to your fortress with your medical library, and then as Toady said in the dev blog " During research discussions, if somebody is better at skills associated to the topic and has broader knowledge, the dwarves (or permanent residents) can decide to strike up an arrangement. This will allow scholars to teach their students directly, and they can teach all of their present apprentices at once to speed things up"Will scholars be attracted to your fortress based on what literature you have? As in, if you have a lot of books related to medicine will you get visitors with medical skills looking to study there? Perhaps we'd finally have a reliable way to train doctors.
Knowledge has no impact on skills, so even if your scholars know all about medicine they won't be any better at bone-setting or anything else used in fort mode.
Seeing at how the worst murdering rampages/crimes can be done in complete impunity in adventure mode, will there be something done about it in next version that is more appropriate than those "spits" or calling one a murderer without any more consequence ?I eagerly await being able to become the enemy of a civilization and have adventurers go on quests to track me down, military squads be dispatched when they fail, and diplomats eventually arriving to ask me politely to stop killing everyone.
Will there be real consequence to a NPC/player actions making himself "enemy" to a civ ? And with civs getting different ethics than an entity, will the enemity propagate toward other allied civs or will it stay local only ?
Will we see in the future the justice system of the fortress mode taking effect in adventure mode too with some kind of guard/hammerer/assassins squads dispatched by location leaders to bringing people to justice for minor crimes or trying to put a lethal end to their murder spree ?
I eagerly await being able to become the enemy of a civilization and have adventurers go on quests to track me down, military squads be dispatched when they fail, and diplomats eventually arriving to ask me politely to stop killing everyone.On that note, when can we expect to see smaller entities (bandits and criminal organizations, animal men tribes, rebels) and roaming encounters (*) interacting with our fortresses directly? Is that type of thing covered with the whole visitation dealie?
When will conversation be on the cards?
To be fair, I've never noticed a dwarf say "It was inevitable" in fortress mode.When will conversation be on the cards?
Huh? Do you mean in fortress mode?
I think conversations are related to time schemes in fortress mode: you see everything speeded up, so it would only be relevant to have your information slowed down enough to have individual sentences if you were pausing or examining something in slow motion.I get why there's no routine conversation in fortress mode (it's not like the entity has [TRANSLATION:OLD_ENTISH]), but it'd be nice to see topics of conversation pop up on the Thoughts and Preferences screen (Urist felt pride discussing her battle with a cave dragon.). I think think the bardic tales in the upcoming release will go a long way in that regard, but the reality is there are some people who really do just like to hear themselves talk.
Pausing = the thought/quotes on personality page, and slow motion = combat reports. Where they do randomly talk. To their enemies.
The latter is pretty limited, to be fair. The only times they don't do generic fear statements is when they choose to say something totally inappropriate. It's actually pretty rude to tell someone that you have no hope after getting sunburn if you've just hammered their spinal column through their guts.
Will scholars be attracted to your fortress based on what literature you have? As in, if you have a lot of books related to medicine will you get visitors with medical skills looking to study there? Perhaps we'd finally have a reliable way to train doctors.
Knowledge has no impact on skills, so even if your scholars know all about medicine they won't be any better at bone-setting or anything else used in fort mode.
Will scholars be attracted to your fortress based on what literature you have? As in, if you have a lot of books related to medicine will you get visitors with medical skills looking to study there? Perhaps we'd finally have a reliable way to train doctors.
Knowledge has no impact on skills, so even if your scholars know all about medicine they won't be any better at bone-setting or anything else used in fort mode.
This may sound like a stupid question but what's the point of knowledge then? Gameplay-wise, I mean.
This may sound like a stupid question but what's the point of knowledge then? Gameplay-wise, I mean.If i have no idea if Toady has knowledge being something important or just some flavor text gimmick, but i would imagine an application in DF context of knowledge and lack of it would be that a character without having had the knowledge of a skill teached to him would then acquire/train such skill very slowly.
Don't forget that the upcoming release is only part 1 of the whole taverns n' knowledge arc. The rest (including practical application, apprenticeships, games and recipes and no doubt all sorts of other stuff) is all on the way but Toady doesn't want another multiple year wait for the next release.Will scholars be attracted to your fortress based on what literature you have? As in, if you have a lot of books related to medicine will you get visitors with medical skills looking to study there? Perhaps we'd finally have a reliable way to train doctors.
Knowledge has no impact on skills, so even if your scholars know all about medicine they won't be any better at bone-setting or anything else used in fort mode.
This may sound like a stupid question but what's the point of knowledge then? Gameplay-wise, I mean.
Don't forget that the upcoming release is only part 1 of the whole taverns n' knowledge arc. The rest (including practical application, apprenticeships, games and recipes and no doubt all sorts of other stuff) is all on the way but Toady doesn't want another multiple year wait for the next release.I'm not sure those features would make me feel better about DF healthcare.
It feels like we're entering a period of posts along these lines where there will sometimes be interesting logs like the last log, and often logs that are just lists of now-unbroken known features, he he he. The collection of problems is growing smaller, anyway!Dirst cancels doing anything useful at work: pressing F5 continuously
It's rare after a point, but it does and has happened. The Chinese industrial revolution circa 1000 was completely reversed, we don't know what Corinthian Bronze actually is, Damascus Steel is a lost art only recently (and only barely) recovered, and all attempts at figuring out how to make Greek Fire have failed. Having a technology rich history generation that can't include such tragedies as the destruction of the libraries of Alexandria and Baghdad, for example, would be a notable absence I think.Thats not true at al. Damascus Steel was an iron ore found in northern India. It stopped, not because anything was lost but because the deposits ran out. There is no need to place techniques on it.
Not could. Did. (http://fee.org/freeman/chinas-forgotten-industrial-revolution/)
I think conversations are related to time schemes in fortress mode: you see everything speeded up, so it would only be relevant to have your information slowed down enough to have individual sentences if you were pausing or examining something in slow motion.I get why there's no routine conversation in fortress mode (it's not like the entity has [TRANSLATION:OLD_ENTISH]), but it'd be nice to see topics of conversation pop up on the Thoughts and Preferences screen (Urist felt pride discussing her battle with a cave dragon.). I think think the bardic tales in the upcoming release will go a long way in that regard, but the reality is there are some people who really do just like to hear themselves talk.
Pausing = the thought/quotes on personality page, and slow motion = combat reports. Where they do randomly talk. To their enemies.
The latter is pretty limited, to be fair. The only times they don't do generic fear statements is when they choose to say something totally inappropriate. It's actually pretty rude to tell someone that you have no hope after getting sunburn if you've just hammered their spinal column through their guts.
I think conversations are related to time schemes in fortress mode: you see everything speeded up, so it would only be relevant to have your information slowed down enough to have individual sentences if you were pausing or examining something in slow motion.I get why there's no routine conversation in fortress mode (it's not like the entity has [TRANSLATION:OLD_ENTISH]), but it'd be nice to see topics of conversation pop up on the Thoughts and Preferences screen (Urist felt pride discussing her battle with a cave dragon.). I think think the bardic tales in the upcoming release will go a long way in that regard, but the reality is there are some people who really do just like to hear themselves talk.
Pausing = the thought/quotes on personality page, and slow motion = combat reports. Where they do randomly talk. To their enemies.
The latter is pretty limited, to be fair. The only times they don't do generic fear statements is when they choose to say something totally inappropriate. It's actually pretty rude to tell someone that you have no hope after getting sunburn if you've just hammered their spinal column through their guts.
Interestingly enough, I seem to recall that in the process of creating a tool which told you more about your process, someone found out that the creatures in fortress mode do have conversations (or what passes for them in DF), it's just we don't see them.
Frost demon "Look at the sky! Do you think we're in hell?"
I noticed that there is a menu in the units lists dedicated to dead dwarves. Is there a reason why we cannot see any information about them after they are dead (in the live units list we can see their thoughts, preferences, and relationships.You can get to this information through dead dwarves' relatives (or with DFHack, for that matter), so it's not a technical reason. I'd say it's simply an oversight, since the unit information screen used to be far less interesting than it is now. I'm pretty sure this has been suggested in the suggestions forum before, anyway, so Toady will probably look at it.
Dear Toady,So with question like these, the answer will be: "That sounds good, but no time table."
I hope you don't mind two questions!
Now that there are songs, dances, and books with topics, do you plan some way of designating a person to be memorialised through art, similarly to how it was possible by engraving slabs?
"Urist McPoet, compose a song about our Champion who single-handedly slew a sieging army with the jawbone of an ass."
"As you wish, Duke."
Urist McPoet withdraws from society and works secretly...
"Right. I did not mean a song about the time he left three of his squadmates to die because he was busy getting a fresh pair of socks."
May I inquire which categories of reputation there are exactly?
Will singing songs of defeated foes mid-battle be interpreted as a taunt and/or cause opponents to re-evaluate how much of a threat you are (in either direction), or is there no such understanding currently?
How much, if any, control do you plan to give the player over caps like [army invader numbers]? I only ask because we have editable pop caps and the like so players can adjust depending on how good a PC they have and how few FPS they can handle.
Is there any intention of bringing some equivalent to the pre-DF2014 quest menu back?
I liked having a list of things people asked me to do and where they were, without having to search submenus for relevant site-names.
Will artists or otherwise copy other's performances without the original performer explicitly teaching them? Can performances or stories be circulated independent from the original performer?
Do you have any new kinds of divine retribution in mind? Inflicting a random FB syndrome seems like low-hanging fruit, although maybe it doesn't work as well for world gen desecration events.
About vampires, will the creature (after they are transformed) stay in the fortress, even if being caught (and are seen as ennemy) ? In legends mode, usually, they flee from their location just after being discovered to save their life, which is quite coherent with their goal (immortal life).
In current version, there are 2 curses, one in worldgen that can make a npc into a vampire when he offend a deity and one at gameplay time when you attract the sight of a mummy in a tomb .
None of those curses can be currently dispelled/removed in any ways out of death, so assuming there may be some more curses type in the future, will there be additionally some way to dispell/remove them ?
Will enough temple desecrations result in your fortress showing symptoms of an evil biome? Dead rising, raining blood, etc?
Will there be guards or anything to protect temples from desecration and give a challenge to adventurer looking for vampirification ? (especially as vampire curse is more like a big bonus instead of an actual curse in adventure mode)
will the kind of courses be specific to the gods? I mean, the god of death would make vampires and zombies, the one of hunting werebeast, the one of health/sickness perhaps FB syndromes or something else (if is planned to have different that kind of things as courses), and so on?
Would temple desecration in destroyed towns still cause curses? And how will animal men/women populations interact with destroyed sites in future or current interactions?
What are your plans (if any) to present legends mode information to players in a more organic (in-game) way?
Will regular creatures with the building destroyer tag be cursed from toppling statues?
Will temple defilers be cursed 100% of the time?
Speaking of temples, are every deities going to have temples in a worldgen ?
And will they be built in random odd place or will there be some checks to have them in more appropriate locations (difficult to imagine death-based deities temples being tolerated in a city ruled by a lord that is worshipping life-based deities , or good-based deities temples being built in evil regions)
Quote from: DirstToady, are you getting close enough to hint at what might make the cut in myth generation for the upcoming release?
Also, are there any raw changes that are firm enough that you feel comfortable discussing them yet? (And hopefully at least part of the myth generator is in the raws...)Quote from: Shonai_DwellerThe upcoming release is part 1 of the taverns arc, which will be followed by part 2 (Presumably? Toady might be bored of fun and games by now). Then the artifact arc is due to begin. So it's going to be quite a while (years?) before we see the myth generator.
In the next version humans can live with the dwarves. Will we be able to make armor that would fit them? Or would they be forced to use the armor bought off the human merchants?
Related, will human merchants sell armor and clothing dwarf sized, or will they still bring sizes completely useless for a dwarf?
Will History ever have events that are less solo-fights and wars and more like... A group of people teaming up on a monster? or is the solo meant to reflect that he is the "leader"?
I know that the old "How the HECK did that dwarf kill the Bronze Colossus" thing is odd... but I am always kind of incredulous that basically in this world where Godzilla roams the earth that instead of armies, teams, or groups of people trying to take it down... People just decide to do it solo all the time.
And
How much longer are we going to be stuck with oddly fragile megabeasts? or to rephrase: At what point are you going to work on fixing up relative strengths in world gen?
If you ever hae the game to the point where dwarves can be impaled in fortress mode, will the dwarves both be depressed yet have good thoughts from being impaled on their favorite wood?
I'm guessing that kobolds won't be able to take part in poetry and written traditions. But, will they be able to play music and therefore participate in other cultures that way? Could a kobold develop a new musical style or dance style, to which a poetic form might become attached? As I understand it, there's some cross pollination between poetic forms, music and dance.
Will you be able to lie about achievements, like persuading a demon you that it was you(ergo, not you) who wiped out the entire Murderfurnace civilization single-handedly?
Will there be an easy way to view the values of a civilization aside from reading the profiles of fortress residents?
In the example master-apprentice situation you described, would the apprentice Dwarves actual medical skills increase as they study, or just the abstract 'knowledge of medicine'. I mean, how much of a real-game impact does this have at the moment?
Will scholars be attracted to your fortress based on what literature you have? As in, if you have a lot of books related to medicine will you get visitors with medical skills looking to study there? Perhaps we'd finally have a reliable way to train doctors.
Seeing at how the worst murdering rampages/crimes can be done in complete impunity in adventure mode, will there be something done about it in next version that is more appropriate than those "spits" or calling one a murderer without any more consequence ?
Will there be real consequence to a NPC/player actions making himself "enemy" to a civ ? And with civs getting different ethics than an entity, will the enemity propagate toward other allied civs or will it stay local only ?
Will we see in the future the justice system of the fortress mode taking effect in adventure mode too with some kind of guard/hammerer/assassins squads dispatched by location leaders to bringing people to justice for minor crimes or trying to put a lethal end to their murder spree ?
when can we expect to see smaller entities (bandits and criminal organizations, animal men tribes, rebels) and roaming encounters (*) interacting with our fortresses directly? Is that type of thing covered with the whole visitation dealie?
Is the current difficulty of the living dead (particularly zombies raised in worldgen) intended? For that matter, are goblins/etc supposed to be as weak as they are currently?
When will better conversation be on the cards?
For those of us who miss DF Talk and would like to hear from you about all the recent development in new episodes, can we volunteer to help somehow? We could collect a list of good questions for you to discuss in an episode and do the audio editing from the raw take to make it sound nice, for instance. That would probably reduce the work involved for you to pretty much just the time you were talking on mic.
So, to the Toady One, I ask a Big question and a Small question.
Big:
Right now, dwarves are traumatized by the idea of dead goblins, even after centuries of violence between these peoples. Will the emotions system draw more on family and politics in the future to correct for this, or perhaps will ethics draw more granular distinctions between species and not just all sentience? The current method of managing this reaction, of systematically traumatizing dwarves until their personality is nothing but the emotional equivalent of scar tissue, is somewhat distressing.
Small:
As libraries, books, scholars, and the various forms of "hard" knowledge are added to the game, will the player be able to influence what ideas are generated or spread? Could propaganda be manufactured and cultural education eventually be implemented?
You've hinted before that the current dev cycle may lay the groundwork for a future reworking of technology during gameplay- technologies that you will or won't have access to depending on research, with the ability to advance your fortress's knowledge by investing in research. If so, do you also envision- whether in fort mode or simply in worldgen- situations where a civilization would lose access to a technology they once had?
I noticed that there is a menu in the units lists dedicated to dead dwarves. Is there a reason why we cannot see any information about them after they are dead (in the live units list we can see their thoughts, preferences, and relationships. In the latest version especially, because slabs seem much less likely to indicate who killed them (usually just says bled to death), the dwarves very much disappear when they are dead.
Now that there are songs, dances, and books with topics, do you plan some way of designating a person to be memorialised through art, similarly to how it was possible by engraving slabs?
I don't recall if there are also technical issues with loading up a legends-type mode while the fort is active... I don't think so.There is an open-legends.lua script available and it works magnificently. It is more handy in adventurer mode because it gives so much access to information that can be hard to access right now.
I don't recall if there are also technical issues with loading up a legends-type mode while the fort is active... I don't think so.The only issue I'm aware of (which inspired the script Max mentioned) is that the legends viewscreen cleans up game objects when LEAVESCREEN is pressed, which crashes if the world isn't unloaded afterwards (the main purpose of the script is to prevent this step).
The sooner the better, unless I'm mistaken and it's just as easy to program those with more content as it is now?
Can someone direct me to an official stance on the state of the FPS monster? I have followed these FotF posts for a while now and it seems like everyone is just ignoring the issue. I can't see how the game can progress much further without multi-threading. The sooner the better, unless I'm mistaken and it's just as easy to program those with more content as it is now?
Even if just one aspect can be offloaded to another core, like weather or pathing that would help so much! I would finally be able to actually PLAY a huge, old fort!
Release mode (on Windows, at least) - things compiled in MSVC's release and debug modes aren't binary-compatible with each other, and DFHack is only binary-compatible with DF when compiled in release mode. Also, there obviously aren't debug symbols in any executables, which likely rules out the use of debug mode with GCC on OS X/Linux as well.Can someone direct me to an official stance on the state of the FPS monster? I have followed these FotF posts for a while now and it seems like everyone is just ignoring the issue. I can't see how the game can progress much further without multi-threading. The sooner the better, unless I'm mistaken and it's just as easy to program those with more content as it is now?
Even if just one aspect can be offloaded to another core, like weather or pathing that would help so much! I would finally be able to actually PLAY a huge, old fort!
Multithreading isn't the only thing that can be done; quite a few algorithm optimizations can be done too.
Unfortunately, most of those optimizations require a rewrite at least somewhere.
Hmmm...
Toady, do you build DF in MVS' release mode or debug mode? Release mode takes a longer time to compile, but the end result gets a lot of compiler optimizations; yes, there's a few problems that need to be cleaned up if you do, but the binary runs much faster than debug builds.
I think improving memory/cache performance would be easier to do than multithreading.
Of course, players exploiting strategically placed temples run the risk of attackers being "cursed" with undeath or vampiric status, which would just mean they're now even harder to deal with.Quote from: golemgunkWill regular creatures with the building destroyer tag be cursed from toppling statues?
Will temple defilers be cursed 100% of the time?
Yeah, I think a strategic temple might be bad for an invasion force. This mechanic will certainly need to be updated as we go along, at least in terms of consecrating the temple so it can't be placed instantly through the interface as if that somehow communicates with the gods directly.
Cheers Toady.
Oh and some repetition of information in the DF Talk episodes is not unwelcome. It's nice to hear people talk about their projects and it can give a differently nuanced sense of things.
Cheers Toady.
Oh and some repetition of information in the DF Talk episodes is not unwelcome. It's nice to hear people talk about their projects and it can give a differently nuanced sense of things.
I agree. If it came to one-or-the-other, I'd rather have Toady and ThreeToe read their Future of the Fortress, instead of posting on this thread (and call it a 'DF talk'). I find it much more cumbersome digging through this giant thread, if I want to view something I missed in the past. Of course, if they prefer doing a post to a recording, that's understandable.
Well, there are FPS changes through out development. Its remaining about the same. Even when dramatically large things like the extra z levels were added. ToadyOne is just not making ground on that sluggishness. And to my understanding what really causes slow down, wouldnt really be solved by multithreading anyhow.I think improving memory/cache performance would be easier to do than multithreading.
Anything would be really nice. The features are great but I can't get over the worsening FPS issue, even on a 4690k. It's just...I don't get it. Why ignore it and continue adding features? My forts are getting less and less old before I just get tired of waiting for dwarf to get from point A to point B and retire it.
EDIT: perhaps I am just not experiencing enough !FUN!
Ah, excellent to see all this progress, will be glad to see all the Fun that will ensue in .40.25.I'm betting on .48.00 myself.
Hmmm, this might explain why adventurer mode runs so fast, the only times it really slows down is when I've got 5 or 6 thousand (or more) creatures to load within my sight/sound range.
Every reveal tile takes more system resources and every item in the game takes more system resources. And these are two things that grow a lot during gameplay.
Two questions;
With this wonderful temperature system in place, is there any intention to make it matter for individual units outside of spontaneous combustion or flash-freeze, e.g, hypothermia, heat-stroke?
And;
How likely is more complete structural simulation within the near future, e.g, needing structural columns in especially wide rooms, ETC?
Ah, excellent to see all this progress, will be glad to see all the Fun that will ensue in .40.25.I'm betting on .48.00 myself.
Two questions;
How likely is more complete structural simulation within the near future, e.g, needing structural columns in especially wide rooms, ETC?
Sudden cave-ins communicates that there was a problem, but a system "that they like" would give some advance notice in time for the player to do something about it.Two questions;
How likely is more complete structural simulation within the near future, e.g, needing structural columns in especially wide rooms, ETC?
This has been discuss a few times. There isn't a simulation limit that preventing that from happening. Its a UI and display issue. So far, ToadyOne and ThreeToes havent found a way to present things like load and tension on constructions, that they like. And from whats been discussed this is the barrier to removing the simple cave in rules.
With this wonderful temperature system in place, is there any intention to make it matter for individual units outside of spontaneous combustion or flash-freeze, e.g, hypothermia, heat-stroke?
Back in 40d creatures caught outside in extreme cold would slowly die from exposure. We had BURN, HEAT, and COLD damage / attack types; The COLD damage type would cause frostbite when critical. These were removed with the new combat system from what I understand with a desire to use the temperature system instead. I haven't embarked on a glacier in many versions to see if the cold upsets the dwarves.
I've actually done a little bit of science on this.
From what I've seen, it's basically impossible for any creature to suffer any sort of cold damage naturally. In the arena, even when setting the temperature to absolute zero, a dwarf will take quite a while to start suffering cold damage. The current material templates for skin and such leave a lot to be desired on this front, but there's probably screwy numbers across all relevant boards here.
Do you really mean absolute zero, or zero dwarf-degrees, which corresponds to far below absolute zero?
I'll take that to mean no, the gauntlet bug will reign eternally. :V
Very interesting. Cheers for clearing that up.Back in 40d creatures caught outside in extreme cold would slowly die from exposure. We had BURN, HEAT, and COLD damage / attack types; The COLD damage type would cause frostbite when critical. These were removed with the new combat system from what I understand with a desire to use the temperature system instead. I haven't embarked on a glacier in many versions to see if the cold upsets the dwarves.
I've actually done a little bit of science on this.
From what I've seen, it's basically impossible for any creature to suffer any sort of cold damage naturally. In the arena, even when setting the temperature to absolute zero, a dwarf will take quite a while to start suffering cold damage. The current material templates for skin and such leave a lot to be desired on this front, but there's probably screwy numbers across all relevant boards here.
From whats been described, I am going to say no. The arts performance, seems to be (for now) pretty formally structured. The performers start their act (maybe in a few preconfigured spots like taverns), and then a formal crowd watches them. It seems like those not inside the crowd don't actually acknowledge the performance.
Will singing songs of defeated foes mid-battle be interpreted as a taunt and/or cause opponents to re-evaluate how much of a threat you are (in either direction), or is there no such understanding currently?
[MAT_FIXED_TEMP:0]
Do you really mean absolute zero, or zero dwarf-degrees, which corresponds to far below absolute zero?
Actual absolute zero. Or like 9508 °Urist
Was the test putting Urist in a tile at DF Absolute Zero, hitting him with a projectile that was DF Aboslute Zero, or coating him in spatter that was DF Absolute Zero? Simply hitting someone with a hot or cold object may not get the effect you want. The raws definitely specify the temperature at which creatures' tissues take cold damage. For critters made of standard materials it's anything at or below 9900 Urists (-68 Fahrenheit, -55.56 Celsius). This implies that your adventurer can frolic naked on a glacier with nary a care.[MAT_FIXED_TEMP:0]
Do you really mean absolute zero, or zero dwarf-degrees, which corresponds to far below absolute zero?
Actual absolute zero. Or like 9508 °Urist
All of the aboveWas the test putting Urist in a tile at DF Absolute Zero, hitting him with a projectile that was DF Aboslute Zero, or coating him in spatter that was DF Absolute Zero? Simply hitting someone with a hot or cold object may not get the effect you want. The raws definitely specify the temperature at which creatures' tissues take cold damage. For critters made of standard materials it's anything at or below 9900 Urists (-68 Fahrenheit, -55.56 Celsius). This implies that your adventurer can frolic naked on a glacier with nary a care.[MAT_FIXED_TEMP:0]
Do you really mean absolute zero, or zero dwarf-degrees, which corresponds to far below absolute zero?
Actual absolute zero. Or like 9508 °Urist
I'm not sure what the second question means -- like will they move in and have little animal person ruin-warming parties at the temples? Or something about the current outcast groups? I don't remember if they still get cursed after the main civ gets chased out or how that works.
I can't see how the game can progress much further without multi-threading.Multi-threading issue was done to death on this forum. Generally, it is not possible, since it requires complete rewite of critical parts of code. It would be easier just to simply start from scrath at this point.
Why ignore it and continue adding features?Because new features are what Toady and majority of players wishes, so it gets maximum priority, like it or not.
With the new multi-species forts, how will creatures like trogs and gorlaks fit in? Will they be able to become citizens? I really want to make blind cave ogre shock troops now.Last we heard, gorlaks and animal people are the only creatures that have the necessary creature token for them to become citizens.
Ah. Elephant seal man shock troops, then.Why not Sperm Whale men shock troops?
What Ar'nt Whales Air breathing mammals?All DF aquatic creatures are "water breathing."
Or did toady Not make working Whales?
Probably to simplify it because something that big is going to crush itself on land, and that's more a problem to deal with once multi-tile creatures with collapse physics are in place I'd guess?
Probably to simplify it because something that big is going to crush itself on land, and that's more a problem to deal with once multi-tile creatures with collapse physics are in place I'd guess?It probably has to do with the fact that respiration isn't (currently) model in DF. So getting mammals to breach to breath would be annoying. I would also be willing to bet, that for them to be consider not under water, they would need to be one tile above the ocean tile.
Probably to simplify it because something that big is going to crush itself on land, and that's more a problem to deal with once multi-tile creatures with collapse physics are in place I'd guess?It probably has to do with the fact that respiration isn't (currently) model in DF. So getting mammals to breach to breath would be annoying. I would also be willing to bet, that for them to be consider not under water, they would need to be one tile above the ocean tile.
Adventurer Role: Slayer of Night Creatures
Curses and exposure
The slaves of night creatures could have extreme effects from proximity that also affect you if you make a business of hunting them.
Will the temples make it possible to remove curses? And I'm not necessarily talking about werecurses, but biome-curses and evil weather as well.Not in the next version. I'd expect that things like that come in when Toady decides to tackle the Slayer of Night Creatures adventurer role, though it's possible that the myth generator work sees a few steps into that territory as well.
Eric, are you talking about DF or "Dancing with the Stars"? :)Don't know what the second one has to do with it (and by Armok I am so happy I know nothing about it, please leave my ignorance blissful) but I am eager to see how this works out in game. Plus things like, could a less-popular or even jealous artists boo you try to try to turn the crowd?
I can suddenly imagine a society of sentients that, instead of brawling, solve their problems with Dance-offs.Eric, are you talking about DF or "Dancing with the Stars"? :)Don't know what the second one has to do with it (and by Armok I am so happy I know nothing about it, please leave my ignorance blissful) but I am eager to see how this works out in game. Plus things like, could a less-popular or even jealous artists boo you try to try to turn the crowd?
Would there king be the best and dancing? Or is there a corrupt king that doesn't know a thing about dancing that later gets defeated by the heroes of dancing, where at first the king laughs at them trying to dance as a way to defeat him but BY THE SEAR POWER OF DANCING it disintegrates the king and the dark clouds looming over the castle haling in the new era of peace and free dancing (the corrupt king outlawed dancing before hand when he was king).I can suddenly imagine a society of sentients that, instead of brawling, solve their problems with Dance-offs.Eric, are you talking about DF or "Dancing with the Stars"? :)Don't know what the second one has to do with it (and by Armok I am so happy I know nothing about it, please leave my ignorance blissful) but I am eager to see how this works out in game. Plus things like, could a less-popular or even jealous artists boo you try to try to turn the crowd?
Do you plan on adding any features of DFhack to the main game? Things like additional interfaces or adding spatters with reactions?This was up on the Eternal Suggestion voting thing. It wasn't in the selection to be included in the game, if I recall.
"Behold, mortals. I am Lord of The Dance. Avert thine eyes, for they cannot comprehend the full magnitude of The Moves."
Heresy. owo
And since I am a derp and forgot to greenscreen my question way back when...
Are there any plans concerning long-standing bugs specific to modding in Adventure Mode? Like the Gauntlet Bug ( http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=6273 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=6273) ), Production Dimension Lunacy ( http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=3712 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=3712) ), or the endless woes of goblin ( see http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=8028 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=8028) ) and kobold ( http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=7966 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=7966) ) adventurers?
Or what about incomplete additions to original DF2014, like the inability to conquer non-human sites ( http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=8001 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=8001) )?
How much of a task would it be for there to be an option to be able to limit the z level of the world?Advanced world gen can do that. Reduce all of the "z-levels above ground", "z levels between level x and level y" and the minimum/maximum elevation.
I want all the bugs out of Dwarf Fortress yesterday, but until somebody copies Toady a bunch of times, I don't think he is likely to change his methods.Assuming they could handle multiple copies of each other working on the project simultaneously.
I want all the bugs out of Dwarf Fortress yesterday, but until somebody copies Toady a bunch of times, I don't think he is likely to change his methods.Assuming they could handle multiple copies of each other working on the project simultaneously.
Toady Forty-Two: Who was working on the temperature updates?
Toady Three, Toady Nineteen, Toady Twenty-Five, Toady Thirty, Toady Thirty-Four, Toady Forty-Four, Toady Sixty-One: (in unison) I am!
Toady Forty-Two: *facepalm*
I want all the bugs out of Dwarf Fortress yesterday, but until somebody copies Toady a bunch of times, I don't think he is likely to change his methods.Assuming they could handle multiple copies of each other working on the project simultaneously.
I want all the bugs out of Dwarf Fortress yesterday, but until somebody copies Toady a bunch of times, I don't think he is likely to change his methods.Assuming they could handle multiple copies of each other working on the project simultaneously.
Asking for a tantrum spiral if you ask me. Laptops flying around... Threetoe hauling people to some spare room in +chains+... yeesh.
Do festivals have any flavor text as for the exact reason they're being held? (like how wars have reasons for the conflict?) Will goblins have festivals in celebration of murder or the recent pillaging of the mountainhome?Toady mentioned someplace that they can commemorate historical events, like the defeat of a dragon for example.
The festivals that rise to the level of importance required for legends mode tracking are established as part of a fair in large markets with multiple trade partners, for religious purposes in temple cities, or to commemorate specific events such as the slaying of a dragon. The game looks at the values and ethics of the civilization and the overall purpose of the occasion to come up with the schedule of events -- performances, competitions (from art to various races to wrestling to etc. etc.), processions and ceremonies, with various little details.
Of course, we all know from our experiences with engravings that most festivals will end up celebrating things like the theft of a round of cheese by a kobold ten years ago.Commemorated annually with a fun game of Kobold rolling no doubt.
We've been continuing to work on bugs and tweaking everything... the overall list has been halved so far this month, which is a nice feeling.Release in 17 days! Overly simplistic linear extrapolation for the win...
Of course, we all know from our experiences with engravings that most festivals will end up celebrating things like the theft of a round of cheese by a kobold ten years ago.Shhh! Don't you want Saint Krildus's Cottage Cheese Kleptomancy Day off?
Quote from: Toady OneWe've been continuing to work on bugs and tweaking everything... the overall list has been halved so far this month, which is a nice feeling.Release in 17 days! Overly simplistic linear extrapolation for the win...
Just as I get back into dwarfiness for the first time in a while. I like my current fort. Oh well, an obsoletion timer will only make my play that much more interesting, I guess.
Just as I get back into dwarfiness for the first time in a while. I like my current fort. Oh well, an obsoletion timer will only make my play that much more interesting, I guess.Well, you'll still have a bit of time after the release, too, where toady typically releases a flurry of bugfixes all at once before he starts working on new features, yeah?
Quote from: Toady OneWe've been continuing to work on bugs and tweaking everything... the overall list has been halved so far this month, which is a nice feeling.Release in 17 days! Overly simplistic linear extrapolation for the win...
Quote from: Toady OneWe've been continuing to work on bugs and tweaking everything... the overall list has been halved so far this month, which is a nice feeling.Release in 17 days! Overly simplistic linear extrapolation for the win...
It was halved this month, and it will be halved next month, and halved the month after that. The release will only happen in 100 years when the tortoise dies.
Quote from: Toady OneWe've been continuing to work on bugs and tweaking everything... the overall list has been halved so far this month, which is a nice feeling.Release in 17 days! Overly simplistic linear extrapolation for the win...
It was halved this month, and it will be halved next month, and halved the month after that. The release will only happen in 100 years when the tortoise dies.
HL3 confirmed.
When are there going to be elaborate houses/stores in towns? (aka more elaborate multi-leveled and not wooden boxes) Are generated inns going to be multi_leveled?Question like these can be answered, "When/if human city generation gets redone. And there isn't a time line for that."
Are there going to be gods that can transform entities in the world to look like themselves? There lots of stories where dick gods change how folks look. Right now they can curse them into vampires and werewolves and other things. Presumably, their entire body will, at some point, be open for grabs to be changed.Are there going to be cults that say worship a god that is depicted as dragon that blesses devout cultists to become a dragonWill a god depicted as a dragon be able to bless a adventurer/history-figure (that do many things in the name of that god) to become a dragon/humanoid dragon and curse defilers to become kobolds? This isprobableway to specific but could work about the same with gods depicted as animals.
ToadyOne added this 'soul' thing to entities, which are independent to bodies. I imagine that offers a lot of potential flexibility to change bodies while keeping the person the same.
Are there going to be gods that can transform entities in the world to look like themselves? There lots of stories where dick gods change how folks look. Right now they can curse them into vampires and werewolves and other things. Presumably, their entire body will, at some point, be open for grabs to be changed.
ToadyOne added this 'soul' thing to entities, which are independent to bodies. I imagine that offers a lot of potential flexibility to change bodies while keeping the person the same.
Honestly, a community-made Slaves to Armok Chapter 3 would be pretty awesome. What genre would it even be? Another RTS?Nah, it would be some kind of 4X game. You'll be able to tell the Yogscast fans because they will always always always send dwarves to the moon. Even if they have to capture some dwarven prisoners because they're playing another race.
Once we get the ability to make differently-sized clothing for our non-dwarf citizens, will traders pay more for clothing in their size?
EDIT: Another aspect to this question is that if our forts are multicultural, then it makes sense that other civs will also be multicultural and there may be a need for dwarf sized clothing in a human civ (for example).Other sites already are multicultural.
Multiracial =/= MulticulturalEDIT: Another aspect to this question is that if our forts are multicultural, then it makes sense that other civs will also be multicultural and there may be a need for dwarf sized clothing in a human civ (for example).Other sites already are multicultural.
Still, clothing size isn't something you can learn.Why not? People aren't all one size, you know.
I think cephalo was comparing clothing size to cultural values. A human can learn dwarven ethics, but they couldn't become short and squat enough to fit into dwarven clothing barring magical intervention. Or vise versa, with dwarves in a human civ. So there would be a need for clothes tailored to human dimensions being shipped to the Mountainhomes, and clothes in dwarven dimensions being shipped to the rolling plains of the human holdings.Still, clothing size isn't something you can learn.Why not? People aren't all one size, you know.
After hundreds/thousands of years of living together you'd think Dwarf tailors would have figured out the dimensions of a human by now. It's not like human visitors to your fort are the first encounter with an alien race...
Fair point. I think cephalo meant multiracial, as I did, considering the conversation was about civs needing varied clothing sizes for their varied race citizens. Words are hard.Multiracial =/= MulticulturalEDIT: Another aspect to this question is that if our forts are multicultural, then it makes sense that other civs will also be multicultural and there may be a need for dwarf sized clothing in a human civ (for example).Other sites already are multicultural.
Things are still a bit fuzzy on how new citizens come around to the fort's ethics.
Toady is the fortress mode economy ever going to return? if so how and if not why?Yes it'll return. My understanding, it has to do with figuring out what to do with Caravans, and hill dorfs. There is also the stacking issue that coins have. We should be seeing some return with the Taverns, but not what was there in 40d.
Yes it'll return. My understanding, it has to do with figuring out what to do with Caravans, and hill dorfs. There is also the stacking issue that coins have. We should be seeing some return with the Taverns, but not what was there in 40d.
I saw that in the merchant arc it says ability to hire bodyguards and buying cottages and other properties, do you see the possibility to hire farmers to till you fields, cooks to prepare food or the ability to custom order armor/weapons from a blacksmith ect.Have you tried fort mode? :P
Have you tried fort mode? :P
This was talked about in DF Talf. There was even some discussion about the ability to let large swath of time pass, and playing as your avatar kid. There was some talk about everything in fort mode being able to be done in adventure mode, and everything happening in adventure mode to be respected in fort mode.
I saw that in the merchant arc it says ability to hire bodyguards and buying cottages and other properties, do you see the possibility to hire farmers to till you fields, cooks to prepare food or the ability to custom order armor/weapons from a blacksmith ect.
Might have been asked before but a few questions :These questions would fit in better at the Suggestions Forum (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=5.0).
Wood : not floating?
I've been a bit curious as to why wood does not currently float , I understand it might be a code issue , but shouldnt it be pretty simple to implement togheter with a direction in which it floats in case its in a river?
Are small fishing boats planned? This could potentially be combined with other fishing tools such as nets, cages and so on for catching specific species.
I know there's been talk about harbors for ocean / trade rutes , but how about using them for basic fortress use both on surface and underground? Like a dock for those sea boats or a way to get from one specified point to another with a boat. Even though we might not get "ocean traders" at the moment , it would have been nice to be able to build a harbor / dock that could be interpretated by the world game so that other entities could be in connection with you as long as they also have harbors. Even though traders and diplomats wouldnt appear due to current limitations while playing ingame , at least on paper and when you are playing another fortress in another location.
Might have been asked before but a few questions :These questions would fit in better at the Suggestions Forum (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=5.0).
Wood : not floating?
I've been a bit curious as to why wood does not currently float , I understand it might be a code issue , but shouldnt it be pretty simple to implement togheter with a direction in which it floats in case its in a river?
Are small fishing boats planned? This could potentially be combined with other fishing tools such as nets, cages and so on for catching specific species.
I know there's been talk about harbors for ocean / trade rutes , but how about using them for basic fortress use both on surface and underground? Like a dock for those sea boats or a way to get from one specified point to another with a boat. Even though we might not get "ocean traders" at the moment , it would have been nice to be able to build a harbor / dock that could be interpretated by the world game so that other entities could be in connection with you as long as they also have harbors. Even though traders and diplomats wouldnt appear due to current limitations while playing ingame , at least on paper and when you are playing another fortress in another location.
This was talked about in DF Talf. There was even some discussion about the ability to let large swath of time pass, and playing as your avatar kid. There was some talk about everything in fort mode being able to be done in adventure mode, and everything happening in adventure mode to be respected in fort mode.
With all this talk of knowledge-sharing, are there any plans to make civilization-wide domestication of animal species possible? So you can e.g. domesticate a Roc or a Dragon in one fortress, and have it available at embark the next time?
Will singing songs of defeated foes mid-battle be interpreted as a taunt and/or cause opponents to re-evaluate how much of a threat you are (in either direction), or is there no such understanding currently?
This is more current than future, but does strength effect size in growing creatures? The dwarven child care thread has produced absolutely enormous dwarves and we were wondering if their high strength early in life is why.
There was already mentioned something that looks like bug. Dwarves see corpse and reacts like sentient was just killed before their very own eyes. At least this is how it is described in their personal thoughts. It goes without saying that there is big difference between seeing just lying corpse and witnessing actual killing in proccess.
Is it considered bug by you, or it is something intended?
With the new multi-species forts, how will creatures like trogs and gorlaks fit in? Will they be able to become citizens? I really want to make blind cave ogre shock troops now.
Quote from: DVNOCan the new Dwarf Scribes decipher the secrets of life and death from slabs and books necromancers 'donate' to your fortress after falling into a spike trap filled with were-hyenas?Quote from: Max^TMwill transcription of the secrets of life and death involve becoming a necromancer? I assume yes but have no idea how it will end up working.
QuoteAdventurer Role: Slayer of Night Creatures: Curses and exposure
(*) The slaves of night creatures could have extreme effects from proximity that also affect you if you make a business of hunting them.Quote from: KitsuneWhat kind of "extreme effects" are there going to be?
So, artists dig through their personal histories for inspiration now, that's cool. Do the engravers and sculptors do that right now? I seem to recall only seeing past history of the fortress location (and the fortress) in my works.
If they're not doing so already, will fortress artists draw on their own personal histories for inspiration now?
And: Will that personal history effect personalities in the next release? Dislikes gorlaks due to childhood trauma. Fearless since surviving dragon attack at age of 7 or some such stuff.
Which of the upcoming arks are you considering for making various temperature related tweaks/adjustments/reworks, if any? Mainly concerning how temperature affects bodies of creatures in moderate conditions, but I'm curious if you have anything else planned in temperature nonetheless.
In it's current state, temperature is kind of wonky, though understandably it gets the job done for extremes, so it would make sense if nothing is planned at the current juncture.
I remember a year or two ago when I researched the various effects of metals on the human system. (Lead leading to mental deficiencies, for example.) What became of that information?
When an unskilled fool joins a performance and totally blows it, will this be reflected by the audience and other performers' reactions? So, can they in a sense crash the party, ruin the mood? Does their poor performance only affect themselves, eg. "Urist is known to be a terrible dancer" or does the outcome of that one fool's sloppy performance affect how audiences view the rest of the performers and the performance overall?
Similarly, if one performer in a dance/song/what-have-you that requires at least two participants performs well, and the other poorly, does the performance of one affect the performance of the other? (eg, if one does horribly, do their mistakes prevent the other from performing to the best of their abilities as well, such that they interfere with one-another not just on a reputation level but by actually mucking up the skill rolls of the others involved.)
Do you plan on adding any features of DFhack to the main game? Things like additional interfaces or adding spatters with reactions?
How does reactions to performances work?
Is the emotion system involved, more than in a basic "good performance = happy feelings" way. For instance, could a ribald poem (intended to praise a lover) make a dwarf randy or embarrassed?
How much are festivals implemented for adventure mode in the upcoming release? I assume you won't be able to take part in the games yet, but can you see them happening?
Also, Talking of goblin dancers coming to visit, will it be possible as a non-goblin adventurer to visit the local dark fortress and take part in their poetry reading sessions (assuming you aren't at war)? Or will the inhabitants all try to kill you the moment you arrive?
Do festivals have any flavor text as for the exact reason they're being held? (like how wars have reasons for the conflict?) Will goblins have festivals in celebration of murder or the recent pillaging of the mountainhome?
I was amazed to encounter a cheetah hunting an ibex recently while exiting travel mode. Did you put anything in to encourage this behavior or did the game just do that?
It was inevitable.
Speaking of, are there plans to make that less of an omni-purpose response to everything?
Will a god depicted as a dragon be able to bless a adventurer/history-figure (that do many things in the name of that god) to become a dragon/humanoid dragon and curse defilers to become kobolds? This is way too specific but could work about the same with gods depicted as animals.
Once we get the ability to make differently-sized clothing for our non-dwarf citizens, will traders pay more for clothing in their size?
Toady is the fortress mode economy ever going to return? if so how and if not why?
Toady I remember you saying something about the player affecting adventure mode personality's, can you choose both personality facets and beliefs and does it work like attribute distributions with points that you spend to increase or lower your value or do you just select a value you want?
Edit:with the addition of bards and traveling musicians will there be followers who's motivation is not death and glory?
Wood : not floating?
I've been a bit curious as to why wood does not currently float , I understand it might be a code issue , but shouldnt it be pretty simple to implement togheter with a direction in which it floats in case its in a river?
Are small fishing boats planned? This could potentially be combined with other fishing tools such as nets, cages and so on for catching specific species.
I know there's been talk about harbors for ocean / trade rutes , but how about using them for basic fortress use both on surface and underground? Like a dock for those sea boats or a way to get from one specified point to another with a boat. Even though we might not get "ocean traders" at the moment , it would have been nice to be able to build a harbor / dock that could be interpretated by the world game so that other entities could be in connection with you as long as they also have harbors. Even though traders and diplomats wouldnt appear due to current limitations while playing ingame , at least on paper and when you are playing another fortress in another location.
Thanks for those answers Toady!
Will there ever be an incentive to keep your dwarves clean? Diseases maybe?
Will there ever be an incentive to keep your dwarves clean? Diseases maybe?
Thanks for those answers Toady!
You can either randomize your personality and values according to your creature type and culture (just tapping 'r' until you get a paragraph/needs you like), or you can go in and set your values/personality facet by facet manually (in a gigantic slider list). Your personality in the latter case is still restricted by creature type (so you can't make a very altruistic goblin), but you can set as many values outside of your culture as you want (instead of the standard 3 or so). It isn't based on a point system, since one personality isn't supposed to be better than another (though there will always be min-maxy settings that you can use to make your character have fewer needs, etc.).
They still all try to kill you over there as part of their ethics. We'll have to wait for things to be more nuanced before you can visit.
Oh dear, being able to change your personality and have it matter, and sliders, why am I excited about sliders?
Oh dear, being able to change your personality and have it matter, and sliders, why am I excited about sliders?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Oh dear, being able to change your personality and have it matter, and sliders, why am I excited about sliders?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Such a great show.
Will people petitioning the fortress be a mechanic designed for that single purpose, or will it be part of a framework allowing for different kinds of petitions?I want a pony!
ie. For the imprisonment of the valued upper class, the banishment of a troublemaker, making a certain deity the official fortress religion, a declaration of war, etc.
Are you going to add possibility to tame wild animals in adventure mode?Eventually, something like that should be able to happen. It's mostly a question on how the historical figures do it, and how the new knowledge system. I can't find the relevant quotes right now, though.
As I remember historial figures can do that.
Do dwarven children (and children in general, I presume) get any negative thoughts if there are no toys to play with? Also, how does a child determine which toys they can play with? Will they just take things they like from the stockpile? Wouldn't this cause some issues if you intend to trade those items?- Urist McChild has bestowed the name Magma the Death of Elves on a copper mini-forge.
If that's the case I predict an 140% increase of magma incidents involving children.Do dwarven children (and children in general, I presume) get any negative thoughts if there are no toys to play with? Also, how does a child determine which toys they can play with? Will they just take things they like from the stockpile? Wouldn't this cause some issues if you intend to trade those items?- Urist McChild has bestowed the name Magma the Death of Elves on a copper mini-forge.
- Urist McChild is depressed due to the sale of a favorite toy
- Dwarven Children are performing a satirical play based on the loss of Magma the Death of Elves the copper mini-forge
- Urist McChild is tantruming!!
Do dwarven children (and children in general, I presume) get any negative thoughts if there are no toys to play with? Also, how does a child determine which toys they can play with? Will they just take things they like from the stockpile? Wouldn't this cause some issues if you intend to trade those items?- Urist McChild has bestowed the name Magma the Death of Elves on a copper mini-forge.
- Urist McChild is depressed due to the sale of a favorite toy
- Dwarven Children are performing a satirical play based on the loss of Magma the Death of Elves the copper mini-forge
- Urist McChild is tantruming!!
Edit: This is my first FotF question (I think), so lmk if I did anything wrong.
If this was going to happen, it would have more then likely appeared in the update blog.
Do you anticipate any workshops moving to the raws in this release?
When it becomes relevant to whats currently being worked on in the game.
Do you have an idea of when you plan to move the remaining workshops into the raws?
If there were any new workshops they would have been mention inside the update blog.
Do you anticipate any new workshops in this release, or only new activity zones?
You should consider looking into it when you get past the initial bugfixes after this release. Some of the stuff they've done is really cool, and although I imagine you won't care to incorporate much of it, it's definitely worth spending a couple hours at least looking at what they've done, and maybe looking deeper if something interests you.Quote from: TheFlame52Do you plan on adding any features of DFhack to the main game? Things like additional interfaces or adding spatters with reactions?
I don't know what the features are.
To be fair, Toady doesn't mention a lot of raw-related changes in the devlog - for example, he didn't mention that brewing was moved to the raws prior to 0.40.01.Yea, but he has a history of talking about changes to the workshop.
(http://puu.sh/kyUxW/f8ff12c18e.png)Yes. Or well, thats a goal. Weather or not the player is fooled, would probably depend on the players wit and perception. This was started with vampires, and dorfs having the ability to go missing, as these are steps to provide the player with more imperfect information. Right now Players don't have to act on the accusation of a dorf on nother dorf, when the suspect is obviously erroneous or the vampire is known by the player. The groundwork for in fortress mode crime is already in place as well.
Will it be possible for the player to be fooled by their dwarve's imaginations, whether by rumors, lies or lapses in judgement ?
Will it be possible for the player to be fooled by their dwarve's imaginations, whether by rumors, lies or lapses in judgement ?That would be great if in adventure mode the npc you're talking to are able to lie about a subject or exaggerate/downplay it to serve their own interest and end into trying to manipulate the player characters.
Will it be possible for the player to be fooled by their dwarve's imaginations, whether by rumors, lies or lapses in judgement ?That would be great if in adventure mode the npc you're talking to are able to lie about a subject or exaggerate/downplay it to serve their own interest and end into trying to manipulate the player characters.
I can imagine a mayor that dislike you and find your presence in his town unacceptable telling you about a wolf that has killed some sheeps in the farms , and that it would be great for the town farmers that you should kill it in a specific location.
Only for you to run instead into the lair of a night troll whole family.
Will it be possible for the player to be fooled by their dwarve's imaginations, whether by rumors, lies or lapses in judgement ?That would be great if in adventure mode the npc you're talking to are able to lie about a subject or exaggerate/downplay it to serve their own interest and end into trying to manipulate the player characters.
I can imagine a mayor that dislike you and find your presence in his town unacceptable telling you about a wolf that has killed some sheeps in the farms , and that it would be great for the town farmers that you should kill it in a specific location. :P
Only for you to run instead into the lair of a night troll whole family.
I would love to see the visiting diplomat lying about events that have occurred around you. like the elven caravan diplomat boasting about his community successfully destroying several human villages, only to hear from humans in your tavern that that totally hasn't happened.
How do you pronounce “Cichi Cichi”, the name of the poisonous berry from Threetoe’s stories?
"Hey Tarn, will we have undead trumpeters in the next version?"
Only vampires. When the zombie's soul is deleted, it forgets all its tunes.
Will there be salt evaporation ponds in order to harvest and export salt? This could be cool for coastal fortresses -or towns- to be able to send their production in the inland regions.I think we'll see if there is a place for additives/spices when recipes come out. In the meantime, it's much dwarfier to just mine rock salt :)
Will there be salt evaporation ponds in order to harvest and export salt? This could be cool for coastal fortresses -or towns- to be able to send their production in the inland regions.I think we'll see if there is a place for additives/spices when recipes come out. In the meantime, it's much dwarfier to just mine rock salt :)
Will there be salt evaporation ponds in order to harvest and export salt? This could be cool for coastal fortresses -or towns- to be able to send their production in the inland regions.I think we'll see if there is a place for additives/spices when recipes come out. In the meantime, it's much dwarfier to just mine rock salt :)
WHAT!?! Collect salt from water?!? PREPOSTEROUS!
I dont get it. Invaders are coming from populations now? Or the goblins were butchering the mounts mid siege?Yea, they been coming from populations since the last major update I believe.
Is there any plans for tree nuts (hazelnuts, pecans, almonds etc.)? Right now, it is impossible to gather them like fruits or berries.If those tree exist in the game currently, then probably. Unknown time table when it'll happen. If they aren't, then probably when above ground ecology is revisited.
I dont get it. Invaders are coming from populations now? Or the goblins were butchering the mounts mid siege?Yea, they been coming from populations since the last major update I believe.
Salt from water should be called ELF SALT!
Nah, elf salt would be derived from elf blood, following the usual creature-material logic. Which winds up making it the most dwarvenly elf thing ever.
Completely forgot about it. Thanks.I dont get it. Invaders are coming from populations now? Or the goblins were butchering the mounts mid siege?Yea, they been coming from populations since the last major update I believe.
Three major updates ago; 0.40.14 and 0.40.20 were both major updates.
Extracted salt from the blood of elves, would likely be edible for vampires as well...Nah, elf salt would be derived from elf blood, following the usual creature-material logic. Which winds up making it the most dwarvenly elf thing ever.
got us there.
so the ruling is:
Extracting Salt from the ground :dwarvenly
Extracting salt from the Sea : Frou frou Elvenly
Extracting salt from the blood of the elves : Epic dwarvenly
What if it's an underground sea you are getting the salt water from?I belive that falls under "Extracting Salt from the ground."
I think I seen Toady commenting on false rumours/achievments/etc that for now it would be too much work, so it got delayed to unspecified time (see you in few years).Not only that, but that it requires careful thought how to implement false rumours/etc. so that the unwitting player encountering them for the first time realises that it's not a bug.
QuoteSalt from water should be called ELF SALT!
You made me snort my tea!
With the addition of potential animal-people to Fortress Mode, will we see adjustments and fixes to the old flight and swimming pathing issues that keep units from flying or swimming and get them stuck?Eventually, more then likely. Though ToadyOne hasnt said he worked on those pathing issues for this release, so its unlikely they're there.
we do have ONE multitile thing, or did you forget about Wagons, i would guess that the fixes would be part of the bug fixes after the releaseWith the addition of potential animal-people to Fortress Mode, will we see adjustments and fixes to the old flight and swimming pathing issues that keep units from flying or swimming and get them stuck?Adjustments. Eventually, more then likely. Though ToadyOne hasnt said he worked on those pathing issues for this release, so its unlikely they're there.
I suspect they'll get revisited when pathfinding gets revisited, which maybe when we get boats or other multitile things that move.
Does tea snorting fall under throwing or misc. objects in terms of combat skill? ;)Nether, it falls under drug use ;D
The Wagon is a special case. And when ToadyOne talked about multitile creatures or boats, the Wagon was never brought up as an example as to how ThreeToe or ToadyOne will want to solve those issues.we do have ONE multitile thing, or did you forget about Wagons, i would guess that the fixes would be part of the bug fixes after the releaseWith the addition of potential animal-people to Fortress Mode, will we see adjustments and fixes to the old flight and swimming pathing issues that keep units from flying or swimming and get them stuck?Eventually, more then likely. Though ToadyOne hasnt said he worked on those pathing issues for this release, so its unlikely they're there.
I suspect they'll get revisited when pathfinding gets revisited, which maybe when we get boats or other multitile things that move.
Still they are a simple MTCThe Wagon is a special case. And when ToadyOne talked about multitile creatures or boats, the Wagon was never brought up as an example as to how ThreeToe or ToadyOne will want to solve those issues.we do have ONE multitile thing, or did you forget about Wagons, i would guess that the fixes would be part of the bug fixes after the releaseWith the addition of potential animal-people to Fortress Mode, will we see adjustments and fixes to the old flight and swimming pathing issues that keep units from flying or swimming and get them stuck?Eventually, more then likely. Though ToadyOne hasnt said he worked on those pathing issues for this release, so its unlikely they're there.
I suspect they'll get revisited when pathfinding gets revisited, which maybe when we get boats or other multitile things that move.
I know this isn't part of the release, but how is a wagon in its current state, different from the multi-tile creatures you WANT to create?Probably won't get much more than, 'the wagon code is old and wouldn't work properly.'
Has creating multi-tile trees made multi-tile hostile monsters more plausible?
It has made large single-tile monsters look more ridiculous, but the code isn't really related. My only real problem with multi-tile critters, if I remember, is the pathfinding.
[deleted]930d, 10h23
Huh... does that mean that wagon paths are somewhat worked out ahead of time (since you can display wagon-accessible paths on the fly)?
I suppose it's pretty simple to calculate whether or not a wagon can fit somewhere and pathfinding is an entirely different beast.
TarnAdams930d, 10h54
Yeah, wagon paths are a special case. If I tried to use that code for a bunch of monsters the game would die, and wagons don't consider most places. It's not an impossible problem, but it's difficult to make fast, I think.
I'm sorry if it has been asked already, but:It's one of my biggest desires. Specially the different reloading speeds. Generally a crossbow should take more time to reload but have better armour penetration than a bow and son on... and having your marksmen employing proper meele weapons would be glorious (but somehow disastrous for your population if the dwarf police don't use the featherwood crossbows in beatings anymore).
Are there any plans to allow modding specifics of ranged weapons(like amount of ammo held, reload time, projectiles fired in one shot),
and to change reloading to seperate action(for example, you can shoot, and immediately after that stow your crossbow and draw your sword)
Reading about how performers can make mistakes made me wonder whether pupils (or fans that only saw the performance once or twice) can misinterpret their master's work, potentially creating all new forms of dance and poetry based on a mistake. That would be both hilarious and wonderful.This explains twerking.
Reading about how performers can make mistakes made me wonder whether pupils (or fans that only saw the performance once or twice) can misinterpret their master's work, potentially creating all new forms of dance and poetry based on a mistake. That would be both hilarious and wonderful.This explains twerking.
Pretty sure no one can get drunk yet. Though you could make them get drunk with the raws by adding a syndrome for drunkiness. I believe its left out so far, because there isnt yet a means to prevent dorfs from getting drunk.
will drinking increase the chance of misinterpretation?
Does the new init option give you the flexibility for different siege pop caps for different hostile races? I find goblins come too late, but zombies often turn up way too early (which, yes, is jolly good Fun, but would be nice to slow them down a bit on occasion).I suspect the latter based on previous FotF replies.
Edit: Oh wait, did you mean population caps before sieges start, or actual caps on number of sieging baddies?
Quote from: Daniel the FinlanderWhy are goblin sieges so small? The largest one I've seen had 30 goblins. In the previous version the sieges were much larger, and armies in world gen seem to consist of hundreds or even thousands of soldiers.
The pathing problem that's been handled for next time will have them appear more often. -snip- The sizes of the armies sent to player fortresses are still governed by some ramp-up code for gamey reasons (so they never reach w.g. sizes -- which is also a cpu thing), and they are now also capped by who's actually available, so a few things could keep the sizes down. Then again, I'm not really sure what the final caps should be at this point. Maybe they are a bit low.
Quote from: VatticHow much, if any, control do you plan to give the player over caps like [army invader numbers]? I only ask because we have editable pop caps and the like so players can adjust depending on how good a PC they have and how few FPS they can handle.
There are lots of numbers that could afford to come out at this point. Not really sure when it'd happen.
Pretty sure no one can get drunk yet. Though you could make them get drunk with the raws by adding a syndrome for drunkiness. I believe its left out so far, because there isnt yet a means to prevent dorfs from getting drunk.
Historical figures can receive wounds in worldgen they can't get anywhere else (ex. missing eyes). Are there any plans to make this possible post-gen?
Are you sure those can't be had in Fortress Mode? As to the eye loss example listed, it could happen in Fort (see: FB Dusts, Dwarven Childcare, et al), but I've not seen it myself due to combat in Fort mode. Tends to be that when one is shot in the eye, death follows pretty rapidly. But are there outlier cases where they could be seen in Fort mode? Maybe. Needs more !!SCIENCE!!If some bow shots can not-quite penetrate a cloak, it stands to reason that one might not-quite penetrate an eyeball.
Are you sure those can't be had in Fortress Mode? As to the eye loss example listed, it could happen in Fort (see: FB Dusts, Dwarven Childcare, et al), but I've not seen it myself due to combat in Fort mode. Tends to be that when one is shot in the eye, death follows pretty rapidly. But are there outlier cases where they could be seen in Fort mode? Maybe. Needs more !!SCIENCE!!There's a difference between getting a damaged eye and completely losing it, as in grey/missing.
Necromancers in the current version will write books about other books, but it gets weird when it says something like "It concerns the two-humped camel leather bound book The Arrogance of Hills", so...Although it's rare, the game is perfectly capable of generating distinct books with the same title in the same world. Calling it "'The Arrogance of Hills' by Urist McWordy" might work.
Now that books are copied and spread, will they still be referred to as single physical things? Or will it be something more abstract that holds for all copies of a book, regardless of materials etc.
I don't know, There's something humerous about this idea:
A Necromancer goes out into the world looking for a book of power and finally finds it after years of searching. he then goes out, finds a secluded place to read it, maybe spending untold years hunting for just the right ambiance in old ruins and finally, finally, it all comes together, his spells are ready, his staff is charged, his amulet of warding is primed...
he cracks open the book only to find it's a book of elven poetry by the same name.
Elven poetry is a powerful ward against dwarves.
So a fiction book by Elves with 328 main characters who are trees, and 199 who are Elves...
That is quite a problem
As small pieces back to the Mountain Home of course!So a fiction book by Elves with 328 main characters who are trees, and 199 who are Elves...
That is quite a problem
Problem is a understatement! How am I gonna ship all these trees together?
A question:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_software_palettes#Microsoft_Windows_default_16-color_palette
Wich one came first on dwarf fortress:
The color R: 128 G:128 B:0, or the fact that df needed a color brown (what the first one I said, is named on df)?
Would you ever consider livestreaming DF development (e.g. on Twitch)?More regular communications would be great (weekly podcast-ish thing rather than big DF Talks), but watching someone debugging code is not my idea of fun. And being watched while debugging code sounds like even less fun.
My observations seem to agree with this; nevertheless, this is one black box I personally wish Toady would let us all look inside.Taming already trained infants contributes very little to the training level of a species. Perhaps if training levels did anything this wouldn't be so trivial.Training levels help your animal trainers train creatures to higher levels. Even a legendary animal trainer can only get an animal to about superior if your civ hasn't encountered that animal before.
Furthermore, will having one fortress's training levels spread to the entire civilization as well as being able to fully domesticate a species in fortress mode ever be implemented?Fortress training should spread slowly as your civs' caravans leave you already, you just can't reach domesticated level yet because there were some technical complications regarding domesticated breeds and some other things.
Quote from: NikitaWith all this talk of knowledge-sharing, are there any plans to make civilization-wide domestication of animal species possible? So you can e.g. domesticate a Roc or a Dragon in one fortress, and have it available at embark the next time?It was the eventual idea to get to that final step, yeah. There are various associated difficulties with that, code-wise, so it wasn't an immediate thing.
More regular communications would be great (weekly podcast-ish thing rather than big DF Talks), but watching someone debugging code is not my idea of fun. And being watched while debugging code sounds like even less fun.
I think if Toady communicates any more than he already does, he won't have enough time to actually update the game. Occasional forum discipline, Dftalk once per major update, interviews a few times a year, monthly Future of Fortress report, monthly financial report and post on Patreon, weekly development update, daily (almost) Twitter including replies to questions. I gather he answers email too on occasion. How much more communication do you need?
Could work, but the current way he gives feedback is alight too. What would be more interesting is if the code itself was visible in-between updates.Is that something other closed source games developers do?
Not accessible for editing by anyone of course, but simply so curious source divers can get a better look at how upcoming features will work.
No. It is kinda entire point of "closed" in "closed source".Could work, but the current way he gives feedback is alight too. What would be more interesting is if the code itself was visible in-between updates.Is that something other closed source games developers do?
Not accessible for editing by anyone of course, but simply so curious source divers can get a better look at how upcoming features will work.
"I also added a numbered tag to reactions so that they won't use up entire bone stacks making multiple products if you don't want them to (the dwarves were making giant piles of bone plectrums out of a single yak skeleton all at once). I don't remember if this was already possible in some way, but there's a new tag anyway."
So are you going to keep talking about he not communicating enough or are we gonna get around the fact he already comunicated by updating the log again and gave us among some clean ups this little jewel:Quote from: Toady"I also added a numbered tag to reactions so that they won't use up entire bone stacks making multiple products if you don't want them to (the dwarves were making giant piles of bone plectrums out of a single yak skeleton all at once). I don't remember if this was already possible in some way, but there's a new tag anyway."
Wait, why would you not want them to do that if it means you produce more crafts in less time?
I'm still gonna be leery of more bone edits. It tends top royally screw with adventure mode crafting. Right now it's a choice between consume a whole stack of bones, or require two separate stacks but only take 1 from each. >.>? Right now bone crafting works correctly in adventure mode, at least in my mod. It's cloth/thread crafts that have problems.
I'm still gonna be leery of more bone edits. It tends top royally screw with adventure mode crafting. Right now it's a choice between consume a whole stack of bones, or require two separate stacks but only take 1 from each. >.>? Right now bone crafting works correctly in adventure mode, at least in my mod. It's cloth/thread crafts that have problems.
Speed wont improve all that much, but thing the game can track at the same time would, so in theory that could lead to bigger maps, more population and a lot of other things.Except that, just like the car, right now DF gets heavier and slower the more stuff is running around. So, if there's no speed improvement the result is not being able to do any more than is currently possible (besides super large world generation). However, Toady has obviously put some effort into making DF 64-bit eventually so I'm wondering what he's thinking it'll be used for. Is it just big worlds? Is it prep for the planned multiple planes of reality? There's plenty of theoretic possibilites.
In simple terms: You have a car, and there's only a single gas station in the world, you can go from a to b with a single tank of fuel but you can't go further. This would be something like virtually making the fuel tank infinite. Sure, you still take the same time to get anywhere, but now you can literally go anywhere.
Will it be restricted exclusively to books?Soon enough we'll have dwarf children stuffing smaller dwarf children into lockers.
I think you mean "coffers".Will it be restricted exclusively to books?Soon enough we'll have dwarf children stuffing smaller dwarf children into lockers.
In the hope that I can do a bit of early prep work for PyLNP:
Have you decided how you will distribute the 64-bit builds (once they're ready)? Will it be a single ZIP per OS, containing both 32 and 64-bit executables, or one ZIP for OS/bitness combination?
I haven't seen any updates about gambling and dwarf in taverns, and they're still listed as "future goals" on the dev outline page. Are they still going in this release?The original plan was for the taverns release to be split into two parts, with gambling and tavern games in the second release. Toady hasn't said that this isn't the case any more, but he has made some vague comments about gambling needing the economy and, maybe it's just me, but there seems to be a kind of excited can't-wait-to-dig-deep-into-this vibe around the myth generator so we'll have to wait and see whether part two follows part one or if it all gets mixed up. Either way, they don't seem to be part of the upcoming release.
Maybe it would work better is we phrased it as "There is a myth that gambling will be in the next release..." ;)I haven't seen any updates about gambling and dwarf in taverns, and they're still listed as "future goals" on the dev outline page. Are they still going in this release?The original plan was for the taverns release to be split into two parts, with gambling and tavern games in the second release. Toady hasn't said that this isn't the case any more, but he has made some vague comments about gambling needing the economy and, maybe it's just me, but there seems to be a kind of excited can't-wait-to-dig-deep-into-this vibe around the myth generator so we'll have to wait and see whether part two follows part one or if it all gets mixed up. Either way, they don't seem to be part of the upcoming release.
I haven't seen any updates about gambling and dwarf games in taverns, and they're still listed as "future goals" on the dev outline page. Are they still going in this release?
so how big could embarks get? The players on supercomputers could actually do something to scale now?Nope, supercomputers rely on many processors working in parallel. Since DF is one-threaded, it wouldn't preform better than on your home computer.
Been looking through the forums and can't say I've found any good answer to a question I have, so here it goes :So, assuming the same geographic conditions, your world could be host to an exact replica of Doomforests which Dwarf families could visit at weekends? Hmm.
1 : I've found DF to be an awesome game and I really love to see what other players are able to do as well , but as the time goes by I'd love to be able to add other players fortress to the world I'm currently playing or perhaps have some option that they can be added to a new world that you create.
Has Toady ever thought about implementing some sort of function so that some of your fortresses can be saved and used in new worlds you create? Likewise an Import function where you could add several fortresses to a new map ( or if it was possible to an existing map somehow ) you create or get from other players?
I could perfectly live with restrictions to what was imported (such as only the fortress empty of dwarves and anything they have made ).
Are there any changes to the tileset in the new version, or can we just plug in our favourite (basic tileset) from day one?
Been looking through the forums and can't say I've found any good answer to a question I have, so here it goes :
1 : I've found DF to be an awesome game and I really love to see what other players are able to do as well , but as the time goes by I'd love to be able to add other players fortress to the world I'm currently playing or perhaps have some option that they can be added to a new world that you create.
Has Toady ever thought about implementing some sort of function so that some of your fortresses can be saved and used in new worlds you create? Likewise an Import function where you could add several fortresses to a new map ( or if it was possible to an existing map somehow ) you create or get from other players?
I could perfectly live with restrictions to what was imported (such as only the fortress empty of dwarves and anything they have made ).
How have you notice this? To my understanding retired Adventures are nearly inert things once they've retired and very nearly stop doing things in the world on their own, and stay where they're retired. ToadyOne has talked about starting families, and then playing as your progeny. So eventually paramours going to be a thing for PCs in adventure mode.
1. I've noticed that in 40.24 all my retired adventurers are asexual, do we get to choose our adventurers sexuality?
2. Does the ability to choose your adventures personality open the possibility to choose your adventurers preferences or deity and worship level in the near future?Thats been talked about to in the Dwarf Talks. And maybe? There been talks about just playing a selection of folks that exist in the world previously, and over making character exist out of whole cloth.
4. With the addition of writing things in adventure mode what if any "support" crafting is available, for instance can the player make parchment to write on or is writing "paper" only available from world gen sources?Like with almost all questions like this, the answer is. Eventually. The paper has to come from some sorta economic chain, and the overall goal is to have player be part of any of those arbitrary points in the economic chain. So you could probably make paper and vellum eventually.
5.You mentioned writing a (bad) essay, does this mean that there are negative quality levels for music, dancing and writing or just that it was bad by comparison? if there are negative quality level what are they called?Yes. You start out as low in the associated skills and ability to perform those acts, you preform badly.
6. You mentioned player character having feelings in adventure mode what sort of feelings can an adventurer experience and what event or action can effect an adventurers feelings?This has been talked about before in in Dorf Talks podcast. And mostly this is is an issue of the computer understanding your intent, and player agency and their ability to role play out how they're playing their character. And computers suck at reading intent. It doesn't really have a means to gracefully learn how you should feel about being stuck in the cold, or slaying members of your own kind or thieves.
How have you notice this? To my understanding retired Adventures are nearly inert things once they've retired and very nearly stop doing things in the world on their own, and stay where they're retired. ToadyOne has talked about starting families, and then playing as your progeny. So eventually paramours going to be a thing for PCs in adventure mode.
1. I've noticed that in 40.24 all my retired adventurers are asexual, do we get to choose our adventurers sexuality?
How have you notice this? To my understanding retired Adventures are nearly inert things once they've retired and very nearly stop doing things in the world on their own, and stay where they're retired. ToadyOne has talked about starting families, and then playing as your progeny. So eventually paramours going to be a thing for PCs in adventure mode.
Thats been talked about to in the Dwarf Talks. And maybe? There been talks about just playing a selection of folks that exist in the world previously, and over making character exist out of whole cloth.
Like with almost all questions like this, the answer is. Eventually. The paper has to come from some sorta economic chain, and the overall goal is to have player be part of any of those arbitrary points in the economic chain. So you could probably make paper and vellum eventually.
Yes. You start out as low in the associated skills and ability to perform those acts, you preform badly.
This has been talked about before in in Dorf Talks podcast. And mostly this is is an issue of the computer understanding your intent, and player agency and their ability to role play out how they're playing their character. And computers suck at reading intent. It doesn't really have a means to gracefully learn how you should feel about being stuck in the cold, or slaying members of your own kind or thieves.
Bay 12 Games @Bay12Games Sep 24
You can finally figure out why your adventurer is crying with the "Express your emotions" option.
DFHack; unfortunately, the script I wrote doesn't really distinguish between "asexual" and "adventurer", which seems to be its own state (the first flag in the orientation flags is set to true for adventurers and adventurers only; none of the other flags are set).
I'd say that adventurers aren't so much asexual as indeterminate; they are controlled by you, after all. Maybe when adventure romance comes in their orientation will be determined by either your choice or your actions.
In the hope that I can do a bit of early prep work for PyLNP:
Have you decided how you will distribute the 64-bit builds (once they're ready)? Will it be a single ZIP per OS, containing both 32 and 64-bit executables, or one ZIP for OS/bitness combination?
I'm guessing it would be two separate zips. That would help ease confusion among most players, and it's pretty much the "standard" on how software is handed out when it has a 32 and 64 bits versions.
Well, as with the last several cycles, the focus of the next release cycled changed. Right now, its suppose to still be focusing on Taverns, which may lead to getting the economy to interact with fort mode. But who knows. Maybe we'll get the adventure mode starting packages, that's been talked about.Thats been talked about to in the Dwarf Talks. And maybe? There been talks about just playing a selection of folks that exist in the world previously, and over making character exist out of whole cloth.
Almost everything has been talked about at one point or another like I know he's talked about playing as historical figures before, my question was about the near future because Toady said we could choose our personality facets now and this is sort of an expansion of that.
No indication about paper in for adventure mode, and paper is abstracted (for now) in Fort mode. So no reason to believe that paper has been changed.Like with almost all questions like this, the answer is. Eventually. The paper has to come from some sorta economic chain, and the overall goal is to have player be part of any of those arbitrary points in the economic chain. So you could probably make paper and vellum eventually.
I was not asking about the whole chain of production but simple parchment which is made from animal hide (this is why paper was in quotation marks) which we can "half" make now with butchering, I was basically wondering if I could write the story of my defeated foes on their own flayed skin.
Oh that. The emotional engine that drives all the creatures isn't turned off when you're controlling an adventure. Its just been obscured, but its possible now to gleam what you're character if feeling. They have the same range of emotions as any other creature with the same cause and effect for them. But due to the typical action players take, your character is generally sobbing.This has been talked about before in in Dorf Talks podcast. And mostly this is is an issue of the computer understanding your intent, and player agency and their ability to role play out how they're playing their character. And computers suck at reading intent. It doesn't really have a means to gracefully learn how you should feel about being stuck in the cold, or slaying members of your own kind or thieves.
I just found out about bay12 twitter and this post caught my attentionQuoteBay 12 Games @Bay12Games Sep 24
You can finally figure out why your adventurer is crying with the "Express your emotions" option.
So what can my adventurer feel and what will make him feel it?
Where? Personalty facets have been brought up twice in the logs, and I checked the twitter until they announced the release of the Paetron.Thats been talked about to in the Dwarf Talks. And maybe? There been talks about just playing a selection of folks that exist in the world previously, and over making character exist out of whole cloth.
Almost everything has been talked about at one point or another like I know he's talked about playing as historical figures before, my question was about the near future because Toady said we could choose our personality facets now and this is sort of an expansion of that.
Well, as with the last several cycles, the focus of the next release cycled changed. Right now, its suppose to still be focusing on Taverns, which may lead to getting the economy to interact with fort mode. But who knows. Maybe we'll get the adventure mode starting packages, that's been talked about.
No indication about paper in for adventure mode, and paper is abstracted (for now) in Fort mode. So no reason to believe that paper has been changed.
Oh that. The emotional engine that drives all the creatures isn't turned off when you're controlling an adventure. Its just been obscured, but its possible now to gleam what you're character if feeling. They have the same range of emotions as any other creature with the same cause and effect for them. But due to the typical action players take, your character is generally sobbing.
Quote from: ManzeenanWill better musicians/instrument quality reduce breaks or "needs"?
The quality can make people happier, certainly, but I'm not sure they should impact overall length of free time a dwarf wants. There's a positive aspect to needs now that improves skill rolls and so on, so even if the time spent is the same, there's still a benefit to doing a proper job.
Where? Personalty facets have been brought up twice in the logs, and I checked the twitter until they announced the release of the Paetron.
Quote from: JesterHell696Toady I remember you saying something about the player affecting adventure mode personality's, can you choose both personality facets and beliefs and does it work like attribute distributions with points that you spend to increase or lower your value or do you just select a value you want?
Edit:with the addition of bards and traveling musicians will there be followers who's motivation is not death and glory?
You can either randomize your personality and values according to your creature type and culture (just tapping 'r' until you get a paragraph/needs you like), or you can go in and set your values/personality facet by facet manually (in a gigantic slider list). Your personality in the latter case is still restricted by creature type (so you can't make a very altruistic goblin), but you can set as many values outside of your culture as you want (instead of the standard 3 or so). It isn't based on a point system, since one personality isn't supposed to be better than another (though there will always be min-maxy settings that you can use to make your character have fewer needs, etc.).
Yeah, you can have your performance troupe that just wants to perform, with no wanna-die checks at all.
I was basically wondering if I could write the story of my defeated foes on their own flayed skin.(https://i.imgur.com/mBMXd57.jpg)
10/28/2015 Toady One: I finished handling the last personality needs in dwarf mode -- dwarves can swipe and own and wear trinkets again somewhat like they did before, for instance, with the avaricious and extravagant dwarves doing it more than others.
I know we all should be used to this kind of thing here.... but you upped the game somehow.
Mental note: never anger JesterHell696
they would recognize their loved one's skin regardless of what is written on it
I just know, deep in my heart, we'll have tomes upon tomes of books that depict their own creation, starting with the murder of the beings from which the materials came from.I know we all should be used to this kind of thing here.... but you upped the game somehow.
Mental note: never anger JesterHell696
I'm just a bit curious about with the way dwarf fortress tracks things if I write was the story of how I killed somebody on their own flayed skin inked in their own blood with a quill made from their own bones and give their next of kin the parchment with that that story written on it whether it'd be possible for the next of kin to realize that their reading the story of their loved ones death on that loved one skin.
Its just some simple scientific curiosity, nothing more.
Although I think you're right, it would be more fun the other way.they would recognize their loved one's skin regardless of what is written on it
Not necessarily. If you make a weapon out of a goblin bone it loses its association with the goblin the bone came from. Might work the same way with parchment.
hi! i hope Toady will notice this question.Questions for Toady in Lime Green or his beady toad eyes can't see them or something.
unfortunately fps death is one of the major issues for me. as i understand it will only get worse whith the development of the game.
do you manage performance (read:fps rate) of the game in some specific way or just go back to optimizing code when perfomance falls below an "acceptable" level?
is there any plan to transfer code to multithread?
hi! i hope Toady will notice this question.Toady doesn't want to waste time on optimization when what's being optimized isn't final. Like there might be ways to optimize the temperature system then later he ends up almost completely redoing it, meaning his optimizations were a waste. So there's generally not much optimization as the game is just approximately 40.24% done.
unfortunately fps death is one of the major issues for me. as i understand it will only get worse whith the development of the game.
do you manage performance (read:fps rate) of the game in some specific way or just go back to optimizing code when perfomance falls below an "acceptable" level?
is there any specific timeframe to transfer code to multithread?
credits for question concretization to Shonai_Dweller
Are people going to have further reservations against engaging in combat with upcoming emotional tweaks? As it is, if there is something that is considered a civ enemy, the dwarf civilians tend to opt for engaging it in combat if it is not threatening enough (say, a wild Dingo Man who got in a scuffle with one of the war dogs), or is the current behavior intended?
Will we be able to issue orders to dwarves, military or not, to avoid engaging certain units, or otherwise force/order them to provide quarter to their opponents?
How will visitors petitioning to become citizens interact with population caps? I assume the petitions themselves will work like Liaison visits where we get a new screen with the relevant information and a choice about the petitioner. Will we still get those petitions even if we've already hit our cap?
Will people petitioning the fortress be a mechanic designed for that single purpose, or will it be part of a framework allowing for different kinds of petitions?
ie. For the imprisonment of the valued upper class, the banishment of a troublemaker, making a certain deity the official fortress religion, a declaration of war, etc.
Do dwarven children (and children in general, I presume) get any negative thoughts if there are no toys to play with? Also, how does a child determine which toys they can play with? Will they just take things they like from the stockpile? Wouldn't this cause some issues if you intend to trade those items?
Do children gain social or physical skills from playing with toys? Or even combat skills, like dodging? Toys irl help babies develop their minds and coordination (iirc), so it would stand to reason that a new system of Dwarven Child Care(TM) could be coming about! (You know, to replace other...methods...involving zombies, small animals, and dull spikes, for instance....)
Will other races (for example goblins and humans) play too ?
Will we see children play in Adventure mode, too ?
If goblins and humans play too, what is the determinent of "being able to play". Can animal-people children play too ? Or any other intelligent race ?
Could a Dwarf children without arm play, too ? (And by that, I'm also asking about any other race who cannot manipulate with fingers)
IIRC, the ability to define reaction menus in the raws is going in in this release. Are we going to be able to add any of them to hardcoded workshops, or only to those defined in the raws?
Will the adventurer be able to serve drinks and food at a tavern?
Will there be singing (and not the story telling/poetry stuff)?
First: Are there any plans, however far in the future, for expanding relationship types? At the moment we have a number of positive relationship types, but only a single negative relationship type - Grudges. Do you plan to divide the negative relationship types up at some point in the future so that players can see why a Dwarf might dislike another? grudges at the moment see to cover everythign from mild disdain to murderous hatred. It'd be interesting, if feasible, to narrow that down into categories - envy, rivalry, obsessive, dislike, hate, etc. I'm really interested by the potential to elaborate on the stories that we are currently able to abstract from the interactions of our dwarves under the current relations system, by providing more varied sources of !!Drama!!
(after Putnam brings up adv mode reputation types)
I know that, it's more the mechanics aspect of it: we've got acquaintances, friend, family, lovers, spouse etc, which seems to cover neutral and positive. And then negative has 'grudge' which is assumedly everything under one heading, from mild disdain for someone you met once, to murderous hatred. I don't know the mechanics all that well, but different opinions/rationales create different actions/responses.
Second: Do you have any further plans for the catacombs and other underground areas? At the moment they're interesting to walk around, but they're mostly just filled with statues and are otherwise empty, negating any good reason to explore them.
Will there be provisions for myth creation within the world at a later stage? With creatures and gods created within the minds of the races that in fact do not exist. This may be an interesting addition to religion and legends mode in general.
will there ever be greater levels of interaction with deities? For instance having them come visit a fort to curse/bless stuff or seeking them out in adventure to kill them/seek some kind of blessing etc. would add an extra layer of FUN as you couldn't necessarily differentiate between these God visitors, and the traveling demons who like to impersonate them. You could also tailor the gods gift/curse to match their godly purview aka God of trade or God of war etc.
Quote from: DarkwingUKI noticed in some recent posts that you said that you might wait on games until the economy comes in later on. Does that mean that you are considering reducing taverns part 2 to just recipes and moving more quickly to artifacts? Or are there more things that you plan to add in taverns part 2?Quote from: syyrahAre the recipes and procedural generation of games still in plans for the release after this one?Quote from: FearfulJesuitI haven't seen any updates about gambling and dwarf games in taverns, and they're still listed as "future goals" on the dev outline page. Are they still going in this release?
Also, I was wondering how you conceptualise the fog of war within fortress mode. I notice that there is the thing happening that the caverns are obscured until we start exploring them. But it seems that once tiles are revealed, that we can generally see monsters in those tiles whether or not they can be seen by an individual dwarf. Is it a design decision to let the player see creatures that dwarves can't see? Or is your idea that later, we will be limited to knowing what our dwarves know? Just curious!
Toady what are you going to do differentiate transformations that change a npc's soul/mind (like spouse conversation) and transformations that do not? Will willpower have any effect on the transformation of there mind/soul?
How do you pronounce “Cichi Cichi”, the name of the poisonous berry from Threetoe’s stories?
NOOOOO! Tell me at least that musically-inclined necromancers will at some point be able to command their skeletons/zombies to play instruments and conduct Bone Orchestras?
Will there be salt evaporation ponds in order to harvest and export salt? This could be cool for coastal fortresses -or towns- to be able to send their production in the inland regions.
How do the new performance areas understand Z-levels? Is there a risk if a statue garden is set up on a battlement that drunken Dwarves will be dancing off the edge all the time? Or knocking livestock over the edge. Will there be tumbling down hills?
and
You mentioned on twitter that invading armies don't really know why they're there right now, and so they can't be swayed by music, or really anything else to give up their murderous/thieving intentions. Once you have a different system in place (whenever that will be) do you intend to have invaders judging the situation at the fort as individuals or will they continue to have more of a generalized morale?
With the addition of potential animal-people to Fortress Mode, will we see adjustments and fixes to the old flight and swimming pathing issues that keep units from flying or swimming and get them stuck?
At the moment foreign race soldiers working for a site are given equipment from the civilization they originally migrated from but according to the soldier classes of the civilization itself. Not only does this result in soldiers going to battle wearing foreign insignia on their armor but more seriously it results in soldiers lacking weapons if the civ they came from lack that weapon. With the ability to make armour and clothing for different race critters in fortress mode, will this situation be fixed; also will weapons/cloaks/backpacks/quivers/flasks also resize as well?
Reading about how performers can make mistakes made me wonder whether pupils (or fans that only saw the performance once or twice) can misinterpret their master's work, potentially creating all new forms of dance and poetry based on a mistake.
Will we see necromancers team up with vampires? Like, the vampire goes on break, drinks a dwarf dry, and then lets a necromancer friend raise the corpse as a zombie?
Would you ever consider livestreaming DF development (e.g. on Twitch)?
Will the exact mechanics of training levels ever be explicitly explained? I have observed that a creature's pet value is is inversely proportional to how many of them need to be trained in order to advance through the training levels. I have also observed that maintenance training, war or hunting training and training already trained infants into fully tame animals all contribute less to training levels than training a fully wild animal does; this has caused me to hypothesize that the contribution of any given training session to the training levels is directly proportional to the increase in an animal's training level caused by that session. I have also heard from another guy who trains a lot of animals that training levels do have an effect on in-fort training
Does this number tag indicate the exact number of units to be used per reaction, the max number of units to be used per reaction, the max number of products per reaction, or the exact number of products per reaction?
How will this new tag interact with multiple-reagent reactions?
I know lots of people have lots of opinions on the matter, but what do you see as the main potential of a 64 bit Dwarf Fortress?
Will bookcases be used for anything outside of designated libraries? How will they behave in adventure mode? If they're unwalkable tiles we won't be able to stand on them to access books, so we'd need to use the command for interacting with a building, right? Will we be able to both place and remove from them? Will it be restricted exclusively to books?
Have you decided how you will distribute the 64-bit builds (once they're ready)? Will it be a single ZIP per OS, containing both 32 and 64-bit executables, or one ZIP for OS/bitness combination?
Has Toady ever thought about implementing some sort of function so that some of your fortresses can be saved and used in new worlds you create? Likewise an Import function where you could add several fortresses to a new map ( or if it was possible to an existing map somehow ) you create or get from other players?
I could perfectly live with restrictions to what was imported (such as only the fortress empty of dwarves and anything they have made ).
1. I've noticed that in 40.24 all my retired adventurers are asexual, do we get to choose our adventurers sexuality?
2. Does the ability to choose your adventures personality open the possibility to choose your adventurers preferences or deity and worship level in the near future?
3. What skills have been added to adventure mode character creation and adventure mode in general?
4. With the addition of writing things in adventure mode what if any "support" crafting is available, for instance can the player make parchment to write on or is writing "paper" only available from world gen sources?
5.You mentioned writing a (bad) essay, does this mean that there are negative quality levels for music, dancing and writing or just that it was bad by comparison? if there are negative quality level what are they called?
6. You mentioned player character having feelings in adventure mode what sort of feelings can an adventurer experience and what event or action can effect an adventurers feelings?
So, are monarchs going to be particularly interested in wearing crowns or other type of regal headwear, or you don't see dwarven nobility swinging that way?
Also, will we be able to equip our military with trinkets after this release?
Will adventurers have a need to bathe with this release, or is there still just an invisible counter for dirtiness somewhere? Speaking of which, since world gen civs can go through the complicated process needed to make paper, are they any closer to managing world gen soap?
and
With the new item modification changes will glazing something increase skill now, or is the new multi-material code entirely different from whatever causes that bug?
do you manage performance (read:fps rate) of the game in some specific way or just go back to optimizing code when perfomance falls below an "acceptable" level?
is there any specific timeframe to transfer code to multithread?
How do adventure mode taverns function? Are booze stockpiles managed in some way, or do they just regenerate while the adventurer is off-site? Do npc dwarves drink, dance, fight and sing without nudging from adventurers? Do they drink too much and die all over the world while the adventurer isn't around?
Why do the king and nobles always stay in the capitol, even when said capitol has been conquered/destroyed?
It seems to me that as long as saves are compatible, they shouldn't take much more memory to load (if anything, 32-bit saves might take less memory, since structures with pointers like STL strings would take up less space in memory). Granted, saves that take over 2/3/4 GB of memory probably won't be loadable by 32-bit DF, but there aren't too many of those around currently.Quote from: PidgeotHave you decided how you will distribute the 64-bit builds (once they're ready)? Will it be a single ZIP per OS, containing both 32 and 64-bit executables, or one ZIP for OS/bitness combination?
I'll probably have a bunch of separate zips, but the list is getting long the way it is formatted now. But that's the way I'm leaning. We'll also enter a sort of annoying save compat territory -- even if I manage compat between the bitnesses, 64-bit saves will often be too large for 32 bit DF to load. I imagine there could be "false" bug reports over this, but I'm not sure how to handle it without spending a zillion years coding calculations estimating memory sizes before load or something.
As of now, a dwarf can go their whole life without eating their favorite food or seeing their favorite material. Are there plans to make dwarves' likes and dislikes change based on their environment?
That's the actual trade screen, I thought. Lemme double-check, but... >.<Children in DF know better than to accept gifts from strangers. I find it hard to consider this a bad thing.
EDIT: Well shit. Seems they reject personal trading too. Son, I am disappoint.
Ohh Toady if you ever have to think of how to handle children in terms of psychology.
A good way to understand children is that they are adults without the ability to understand or cope with things in general.
As someone once said: "Children are like adults without their lids on"
I finished handling the last personality needs in dwarf mode -- dwarves can swipe and own and wear trinkets again somewhat like they did before, for instance, with the avaricious and extravagant dwarves doing it more than others.
No, that's more of a status need similar to kings with crowns and such, which Toady has mentioned as not in the game yet.Quote from: Toady OneI finished handling the last personality needs in dwarf mode -- dwarves can swipe and own and wear trinkets again somewhat like they did before, for instance, with the avaricious and extravagant dwarves doing it more than others.
Does this mean that we'll once again have dungeon masters who wear sixteen crowns and twenty capes and not a stitch else?
1. What's the plan for paper-making industry? Will there be multiple types of "paper", like papyrus, large leaves, parchment, velum, hemp, dwarven beard hair fiber paper, plump helmet pulp paper? Will we be able to use paper to make other objects, like paper crafts, paper charms, paper windows or paper armor?Toady has mentioned papyrus, parchment, and paper in the dev log, so different types of paper are in. I think he mentioned that any cloth plant can be used for paper. There might be paper crafts, but anything else probably isn't on the table for this release.
3. Will it be possible to define a civilization with more than one species? for example, PeanutButter Elves and Jelly Elves that live together in the Sandwich civilization?No. Toady mentioned previously that this probably is too much work for this release. You could fake it with different castes, though.
5. Can visitors bring reaction knowledge with them? Let's say I've modded the game to play as goblins instead of dwarves. If a dwarf furnace operator joins my fortress, would he be able to manufacture steel? Conversely, if I'm playing dwarves, will my goblin visitors be able to produce whips and loincloths?Not yet, no I'm pretty sure. They only bring their arts, values, and ethics right now as far as I remember.
3. Will it be possible to define a civilization with more than one species? for example, PeanutButter Elves and Jelly Elves that live together in the Sandwich civilization?No. Toady mentioned previously that this probably is too much work for this release. You could fake it with different castes, though.
It'd be a large rewrite, since the "race" variable for entity definitions is scattered all over the place. I'm going to deal with a lot of those dependencies just to get the multispecies forts running, and we'll see where we are when that work is done. Good fortune would be a full gutting, but I'm going to skip what I can for time. I'm not sure what a multiracial raw def would mean in terms of starting pops. It would be easiest just to split it in half/etc. I guess, though the test myth generator's interweaved stories of various critter origins is a large wrench in this process that might be worth waiting for.
There's no timeline for multithreading. As far as I can tell from conversations and forum threads about this, it would be difficult or impossible to do at all in a large sense. There's more hope for targeted improvements, but that still has the problem of me not knowing a thing about it or where best to apply it, and the risk of a months-long delay with zero gain on the other end.
One thing to keep in mind is that there are multiple approaches to concurrency and/or parallelism, and they can have exceedingly different tradeoffs.
5. Can visitors bring reaction knowledge with them? Let's say I've modded the game to play as goblins instead of dwarves. If a dwarf furnace operator joins my fortress, would he be able to manufacture steel? Conversely, if I'm playing dwarves, will my goblin visitors be able to produce whips and loincloths?Not yet, no I'm pretty sure. They only bring their arts, values, and ethics right now as far as I remember.
5. Can visitors bring reaction knowledge with them? Let's say I've modded the game to play as goblins instead of dwarves. If a dwarf furnace operator joins my fortress, would he be able to manufacture steel? Conversely, if I'm playing dwarves, will my goblin visitors be able to produce whips and loincloths?Not yet, no I'm pretty sure. They only bring their arts, values, and ethics right now as far as I remember.
So, if immigrants now bring their values with them, does this mean that now you will be able to take say a goblin (or an elf? not sure which) into your fort and make him a butcher so he can butcher dwarf (etc.) corpses since goblins (or elves?) are ok with butchering intelligent beings?
What if there was a species and/or civ value(s) for basic aggresion level? Adjusted by mental characteristics and standing orders.Quote from: iceball3the dwarf civilians tend to opt for engaging it in combat if it is not threatening enough (say, a wild Dingo Man who got in a scuffle with one of the war dogs), or is the current behavior intended?I don't think the situation has changed. Dwarves'll jump into active combats to try to save people they like, but it isn't great in practice and I'm open to improving it. It would be best not to have to micromanage their behavior though, if possible.
There's no unhappy thought at this point, though certainly we'll need to do something over time for toys to truly have a point. Right now they are content to make believe or do music/dance stuff.What if... toys adjusted probabilities for preference generation? And reduced tendency to spend time on wandering (which is when they may be bitten by badgers) in favour of playing with toy(s) more or less at one tile - generally in quarters or wherever individual possessions are stored?Quote from: omega_dwarfDo children gain social or physical skills from playing with toys? Or even combat skills, like dodging? Toys irl help babies develop their minds and coordination (iirc), so it would stand to reason that a new system of Dwarven Child Care(TM) could be coming about! (You know, to replace other...methods...involving zombies, small animals, and dull spikes, for instance....)I haven't gotten into anything like that.
What if... both office/workplace and personal equipment like this could be defined in raws for civ roles - with lists of tags for variations (including empties for optional things) and values of preference/importance?Quote from: RibsSo, are monarchs going to be particularly interested in wearing crowns or other type of regal headwear, or you don't see dwarven nobility swinging that way?That's all still the same. It would be nice for there to be more outfits and so on, but it also adds logistic troubles we are already swimming in, particularly with the military.
Also, will we be able to equip our military with trinkets after this release?
5/15/2015 Toady One: ...can now emotionally process the experiences of tree felling, butchery and animal caging.
5/15/2015 Toady One: ...can now emotionally process the experiences of tree felling, butchery and animal caging.
Aw hell, elves don't even like catching animals for training?
No. Whatever it is that elves do is not yet implemented as an actual job. (though elves do bring animals in cages...)5/15/2015 Toady One: ...can now emotionally process the experiences of tree felling, butchery and animal caging.
Aw hell, elves don't even like catching animals for training?
Wait wait wait. Does that mean that if we have elven residents, they can tame animals for us without capturing them first? Just go up to them and say "sup"?
Wait wait wait. Does that mean that if we have elven residents, they can tame animals for us without capturing them first? Just go up to them and say "sup"?"Hey Urist, any more elven volunteers? We aren't making any progress on the dragon training. This pleases me."
Is there any chance the FORCED entity tag, to make people wear certain items, could be enhanced? There doesn't seem to be a way to make enemy entities wear full armor, especially on their lower bodies, hands, and feet. I would really like it if there's a way to make enemies wear full suits of armor, and to perhaps make monarchs etc. wear jewelry. It would be much appreciated.
If it is not going to be changed in the next release in order to make foreign race AI soldiers use equipment from their own civilization; what equipment are the animal people that now take up residence in sites going to be given since they have no entity of their own with equipment to use?Didn't Toady already say:
they should use the equipment you make for them regardless of thatIn other words, if they don't use equipment you make for them, it's a bug to be fixed during bug fixes.
If it is not going to be changed in the next release in order to make foreign race AI soldiers use equipment from their own civilization; what equipment are the animal people that now take up residence in sites going to be given since they have no entity of their own with equipment to use?Didn't Toady already say:Quotethey should use the equipment you make for them regardless of thatIn other words, if they don't use equipment you make for them, it's a bug to be fixed during bug fixes.
(or if you want, put forth an argument you don't agree with just to start trouble)
What, exactly, does the player do when he argues with someone? Do I get a prompt saying "Argue [ETHICS:TORTURE_FOR_FUN:PUNISH_CAPITAL], because it degrades the fabric of society", or something like that?Well, since that line of argument is torturing for fun, it really wouldn't be in your interest to argue for capital punishment, now would it? :)
Please. The entire premise of DF is torturing for fun. Thus, this line of reasoning could be a game-breaker.What, exactly, does the player do when he argues with someone? Do I get a prompt saying "Argue [ETHICS:TORTURE_FOR_FUN:PUNISH_CAPITAL], because it degrades the fabric of society", or something like that?Well, since that line of argument is torturing for fun, it really wouldn't be in your interest to argue for capital punishment, now would it? :)
- I assume that's possible anyhow, is feeling horror at goblin corpses a 'value'?No, it's an emotional response to seeing a goblin corpse.
What, exactly, does the player do when he argues with someone? Do I get a prompt saying "Argue [ETHICS:TORTURE_FOR_FUN:PUNISH_CAPITAL], because it degrades the fabric of society", or something like that?Most likely, you'll see a string similar to the ones displayed for values in the dwarf descriptions (something like "I believe that family is one of the most important things in life." or "Anyone with half a brain should find the idea of family loathsome.") or that dwarves already say to illustrate their values ("There's nothing like a good friend." as with Toady's example on Twitter a few days ago.) Also note that ethics aren't values, and I believe Toady has only mentioned arguing about values.
Quote from: Toady One(or if you want, put forth an argument you don't agree with just to start trouble)
-evil cackling- Playing devil's advocate is now a possibility!
Let's say I've modded the game to include 20ish possible civilizations and they don't all show up in worldgen. Would it be possible for the races that weren't generated as civilizations to show up as visitors? Also, if a civilization goes extinct during history, can people from it still appear as visitors later?The first part of that question is no unless you do some weird modding I'll explain in a moment which from what has been said will probably work. The second question would definitely be yes, if the people still exist. Most of the time neither civilizations or the creatures making those civilizations never really go extinct. There's often a king hiding around in a cave somewhere, or maybe a few creatures not from the initial civilization still populating it somehow. Or in the case of the creatures, there'd likely be some outcasts hiding in the wilds, or some that had been abducted by goblins, or just living in another civilization in some form. It will be very unlikely that they'll visit since there'd be very few of them, but maybe if you make a tavern right next to the cave of the old king of the last dwarf civilization, he might come visit.
Quote from: ButtonDoes this number tag indicate the exact number of units to be used per reaction, the max number of units to be used per reaction, the max number of products per reaction, or the exact number of products per reaction?
How will this new tag interact with multiple-reagent reactions?
It's the max number of times it generates a batch of products per reaction (so it is a reaction tag, not a product or reagent tag). Reagents are used up until the max is reached -- and this just applies to those kinds of reagents which led to multiple products to begin with (bone stacks, etc.). Many reactions involve bringing a simple non-stacked/non-divisible item over as at least one of the reagents, and those wouldn't be affected, since only one batch is possible.
Ahh, but the strawberries that's... that's where I had them. They laughed at me and made jokes but I proved beyond the shadow of a doubt and with... geometric logic... that a duplicate key to the wardroom icebox DID exist, and I'd have produced that key if they hadn't of pulled the Caine out of action. I, I, I know now they were only trying to protect some fellow officers...
So while the answer first question in the most basic sense is no, I'm pretty sure you could do some odd things to get it to work. Basically you'd need a way for the creatures from the civilization that never generated to exist without the civilization. In vanilla I think all creatures that have entities only show up from those entities and are never in the wild or something. However, with the next update there'll be creatures like crundles, and aboveground animal people which can join civilizations despite never having had one themselves. So you could add in a [BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_WATER] [UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:1:2] to dwarves and then if their civilization never showed up a few wild dwarves might still join a civilization and you'd get them as guests potentially. You might need them to be a seperate [CREATURE:WILD_DWARF] though, I don't know if creatures can both be in a civilization and in the wild, it might work, but that could be a backup plan. Of course this would result in the creature being found in the wild and uncivilized, and the visitors you get would only have values and knowledge or whatever from the civilization they joined rather than their own, but it is a way it could probably be done.
Will future editions have certain metalworking tasks involve casting, and possibly not involve an anvil at all? I'm no expert on the production of metal statues, but cursory research indicates that it involves only casting and polishing, not banging on it with a hammer. Furthermore, if casting is implemented, will mold-making be a different skill and/or labor than casting? How will the skills interact in terms of determining the quality of the output?Questions like that tend to get answers along the line of "Sounds good, we're all for it, but there's no timeline when we'll add it. (and thus don't know the details yet)" Toady has mentioned being all for molds in the context of creating anvils before, though, so it may happen some day.
bandits will also occasionally arrive to relax as well.
I meant gorlaks. And, I know those things, but it's mostly the only solution. The [LAYER_LINKED] civilization is good, but it would be really odd for some of them considering that they're talking about worlds with 20 different entities, I doubt many of which would make sense underground. Could use combinations of them though.So while the answer first question in the most basic sense is no, I'm pretty sure you could do some odd things to get it to work. Basically you'd need a way for the creatures from the civilization that never generated to exist without the civilization. In vanilla I think all creatures that have entities only show up from those entities and are never in the wild or something. However, with the next update there'll be creatures like crundles, and aboveground animal people which can join civilizations despite never having had one themselves. So you could add in a [BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_WATER] [UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:1:2] to dwarves and then if their civilization never showed up a few wild dwarves might still join a civilization and you'd get them as guests potentially. You might need them to be a seperate [CREATURE:WILD_DWARF] though, I don't know if creatures can both be in a civilization and in the wild, it might work, but that could be a backup plan. Of course this would result in the creature being found in the wild and uncivilized, and the visitors you get would only have values and knowledge or whatever from the civilization they joined rather than their own, but it is a way it could probably be done.
You would need either a seperate creature, in which case the dwarves would be naked and unarmed or you would have to make a [LAYER_LINKED] dwarf entity. Crundles however would not be able to join civilizations however except as pets, since they are not intelligent creatures :D.
I meant gorlaks. And, I know those things, but it's mostly the only solution. The [LAYER_LINKED] civilization is good, but it would be really odd for some of them considering that they're talking about worlds with 20 different entities, I doubt many of which would make sense underground. Could use combinations of them though.
Will biographies contain a detailed list of the life events of the individual in question, similar to the one in legends mode?Pretty sure book details are still at the 'description of the content of a book' stage this time round. It'd be a heck of a task to render legends in all the different styles that books are described as having.
@Urlance Woolsbane : your "question" seems more suggestions for me. You should perhaps put them in the appropriate topic. Otherwise, you'll probably have the same reply than many...The thing is, they're almost certainly things Toady has thought of himself, so making Suggestion topics would probably be pointless.
In order to satiate whatever the hell this argument is (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=153854.0), do you mind telling us what mathematics went in to determining the "size" of various creatures?Cubic Centimeters. The measurement of "Size" is volume, which can be extrapolated from weight by getting the density of flesh which is something that is already measured from real life creatures that DF's are modeled off of.
Will we be seeing a tidier Legends Mode? A family tree option would be pretty cool, as would an option to toggle through levels of detail (e.g. show everything that happened to an individual/show everything except the injuries he inflicted on others/show only the non-fighting bits.)
More overall contextualization would be good.
Bloat 51 is the family tree interface. ... The tree interface is one of those things that always seems like it's going to get done soon, but I never actually get around to it. It wouldn't take much longer than a relationship dump, so it's just a matter of setting aside time for it.
On 10/17/15 Toady said "Four more things to go.", and the Hype Train has not yet left the station at full steam!? Frankly, I'm disappointed, Forum. B)The overseer forgot to mandate the construction of more minecarts!
On 10/17/15 Toady said "Four more things to go.", and the Hype Train has not yet left the station at full steam!? Frankly, I'm disappointed, Forum. B)
Those four things could also be replaced with "four things and a buttload of bugs.I don't think anyone's expecting a bug free release. It's 4 things, a week of closed testing then 6 months of open testing, bug reporting/fixing/tweaking.
[Striked out based on what the blog says](*) clean up some stuff with personality needs (mainly polishing off adventurer arguments over values)(*) go through some more non-dwarf item code testing in the fort(*) let long-term residents bug you a bit if you aren't holding up your end of arrangements
(*) tavern reputation improvements/indications(*) allow diplomats and bandits to visit your tavern(merchants are harder due to old code, will probably skip)
(*) clean up conflicts with meetings/witness reports and the new time-off mechanics(*) improve spectator text (again...)
(*) improve performance text (again...)
(*) rumor display (maps perhaps, though if that falls through we might skip)(*) payment as bard (or something, it's hard in the current framework)
(*) position as bard (as above)(*) a few minor improvements to musical form descriptions(*) more distinctions in individual composition as opposed to form (it'll still be very sparse for now)
(*) test passing incident rumors by song, in particular changing non-art reputations by lyrical content
From the list of remaining things:I think you're wrong about "tavern reputation improvements/indications". I'm pretty sure that refers to reputation of Dwarf Mode taverns, not reputation effects reducing tavern prices. I assume the actual finished item is "more distinctions in individual composition as opposed to form".Quote[Striked out based on what the blog says](*) clean up some stuff with personality needs (mainly polishing off adventurer arguments over values)(*) go through some more non-dwarf item code testing in the fort(*) let long-term residents bug you a bit if you aren't holding up your end of arrangements(*) tavern reputation improvements/indications(*) allow diplomats and bandits to visit your tavern(merchants are harder due to old code, will probably skip)
(*) clean up conflicts with meetings/witness reports and the new time-off mechanics(*) improve spectator text (again...)
(*) improve performance text (again...)
(*) rumor display (maps perhaps, though if that falls through we might skip)(*) payment as bard (or something, it's hard in the current framework)
(*) position as bard (as above)(*) a few minor improvements to musical form descriptions
(*) more distinctions in individual composition as opposed to form (it'll still be very sparse for now)
(*) test passing incident rumors by song, in particular changing non-art reputations by lyrical content
What did I miss?
I predict an early christmas release.When is early Christmas?
I predict an early christmas release.It would be awesome if the release came out "Black Friday" (which is actually Thanksgiving afternoon this year) and messed all the USians' shopping. Or the people in line with their laptops can sing the praises of DF to others in the line... You know they don't dare leave and lose their place.
My prediction is that he'll aim for a January release and start labeling them DF2014, DF2015, DF2016 instead of v.numbers. I'm excited to try the new features, but given that the last major version completely destroyed sieges, I'd rather see it progress slow and smooth and just make the game well.
DF20xx is a forum invented system. Would be odd for Toady to suddenly change the way he numbers the versions.
Forum naming system is kind of confusing actually. DF2014 (version that everyone's playing released in Jan 2015). Followed by...DF2015? (Final release probably well into 2016).
My prediction is that he'll aim for a January release and start labeling them DF2014, DF2015, DF2016 instead of v.numbers.You're confusing Toady with EA, and Dwarf Fortress with DwarfBall :)
But that could involve someone throwing a dwarf.My prediction is that he'll aim for a January release and start labeling them DF2014, DF2015, DF2016 instead of v.numbers.You're confusing Toady with EA, and Dwarf Fortress with DwarfBall :)
My prediction is that he'll aim for a January release and start labeling them DF2014, DF2015, DF2016 instead of v.numbers. I'm excited to try the new features, but given that the last major version completely destroyed sieges, I'd rather see it progress slow and smooth and just make the game well.
I'm frankly just waiting for the day when Toady writes:
"Discovered a bug: The steward of the dwarven Mountainhome, despite his longstanding grudges and secret alliance with the humans, failed to assassinate the Elven king during the 100-year-peace celebration."
"Wait, scratch that: The assassin was on his way, but lost his way in the labyrith, then decided to play with the magic trap. I... think he's alive? What on earth did that thing DO?"
There will be joy.And the Elven carpenters will weep in their thousands. Gwa ha ha ha ha!!
And desecrated temples.
And music!
[E]lves [...] can now emotionally process the experiences of tree felling, butchery and animal caging. We trust you'll respect this new situation in your labor settings.Yes, quite. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VideoGameCrueltyPotential) There is nothing like (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ElvesVersusDwarves) ensuring all residents are (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ScrewYouElves) safe and happy. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlatantLies)
I swear Toady, if you ever have characters discounting magic as superstitious mumbo jumbo in spite being an actual factual force that everyone can see infront of their eyes and recreate in a laboratory environment.I dunno there are bound to be simple folk who never encountered magic, or became jaded having been tricked by sham wizards (snake oil anyone?). I mean there are people alive today that don't, and do, believe in some strange things.
I am going to be really pissed.
Not that I can really mean anything... but my feelings will be hurt :'(
I swear Toady, if you ever have characters discounting magic as superstitious mumbo jumbo in spite being an actual factual force that everyone can see infront of their eyes and recreate in a laboratory environment.
I am going to be really pissed.
Not that I can really mean anything... but my feelings will be hurt :'(
We're done with the list
Oh dear. Call the SCP Foundation...Quote from: Toady OneWe're done with the listThe Hype Train is leaving the station, all aboard the Hype Train.
This is also somewhat up in the air given his statements of support for a slider-based system of magic levels in worlds. From none to zany. I imagine that there might actually be good cause for "magic isn't real" sentiments in worlds where it's either not at all present or just slightly present.I swear Toady, if you ever have characters discounting magic as superstitious mumbo jumbo in spite being an actual factual force that everyone can see infront of their eyes and recreate in a laboratory environment.
I am going to be really pissed.
Not that I can really mean anything... but my feelings will be hurt :'(
Toady has specifically denounced "factory magic" (the kind that usually can be recreated in a laboratory environment) in DFTalks. AFAIK, that means he's going for "extremely rare artifacts of power" rather than "the local level 5 wizard making +1 long swords".
We're doing release mode tests now and going through the churn of tweaks that happens before it's ready enough to go.
Flat-Earth Atheism is certainly an annoying trope.Round-Earth Theism is pretty annoying too.
I think he means this (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FlatEarthAtheist).Flat-Earth Atheism is certainly an annoying trope.Round-Earth Theism is pretty annoying too.
This is also somewhat up in the air given his statements of support for a slider-based system of magic levels in worlds. From none to zany. I imagine that there might actually be good cause for "magic isn't real" sentiments in worlds where it's either not at all present or just slightly present.Zany, you say?
ALL ABOARD THE HYPE TRAIN, FIRST STOP: EBERRON!- Don't you mean Erebor?
I'm pretty sure that using "Eberron" as shorthand for "fantasy setting with insanely high amounts of magitech" is not going to get me sued any more than using "kleenex" in place of "facial tissue" would.ALL ABOARD THE HYPE TRAIN, FIRST STOP: EBERRON!- Don't you mean Erebor?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Wow that joked passed way up over your head didn't it? ::)If anything, Erebor would be more likely to get me sued than Eberron would, since the latter has a much broader fair use policy. If the irony of that was the joke, no, it wasn't lost on me, I just saw no humor in it.
What is the criteria for creatures coming to visit? Would gorlaks, troglodytes and trolls, or wandering overworld animal-folk be able to walk into your taverns and start partying or will they still operate as wild animals? Will wandering gorlaks/trogs/trolls/animal-folk be equipped with weapons or armor or skills from interacting with other civs? I haven't seen kobolds mentioned in the visitor examples, are they capable of visiting?They are definitely capable of visiting your tavern. Whether they are capable of paying for the things they take is a completely separate question.
What is the criteria for creatures coming to visit? Would gorlaks, troglodytes and trolls, or wandering overworld animal-folk be able to walk into your taverns and start partying or will they still operate as wild animals? Will wandering gorlaks/trogs/trolls/animal-folk be equipped with weapons or armor or skills from interacting with other civs? I haven't seen kobolds mentioned in the visitor examples, are they capable of visiting?They are definitely capable of visiting your tavern. Whether they are capable of paying for the things they take is a completely separate question.
I don't think there's a way in current versions for people to dislike food, so I wouldn't think so, but if it becomes an issue, it should be easy enough for Toady to add.It wouldn't be so different from Dwarves not butchering sapients, after all.
I don't think there's a way in current versions for people to dislike food, so I wouldn't think so, but if it becomes an issue, it should be easy enough for Toady to add.It wouldn't be so different from Dwarves not butchering sapients, after all.
You know, it occurs to me, what with the new changeable ethics, that you might wind up with cannibalistic Dwarves, in Vanilla.
62 hours to go. Hype, hype, hype!!!Wait, how do you know that?
Twitter:62 hours to go. Hype, hype, hype!!!Wait, how do you know that?
Crash cleaned up with toys and make believe. 62 hours until you too can enjoy inebriated dwarven scholars arguing about the nature of power.
(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/wowwiki/images/e/e4/Dwarf_male250x.gif/revision/latest?cb=20120511203039)Twitter:62 hours to go. Hype, hype, hype!!!Wait, how do you know that?QuoteCrash cleaned up with toys and make believe. 62 hours until you too can enjoy inebriated dwarven scholars arguing about the nature of power.
62 hours to go. Hype, hype, hype!!!
Bug filled, unplayable, save corruption, broken combat, broken dancing, epic loyalty cascades.....
Ok, calmed down a bit now.
Any sense of how quickly a new LNP would follow? It looks like last time the new version was released in January and the LNP followed in July.
This IS where questions for the next Future of the Fortress reply are to posted, right?
An improvement in the UI would make the game a lot more accessible to other people. What priority will UI that take in development?
Are adventurers experience any side effect caused by beer on this update?We are already at being able to mod potions that cause other effects in dorfs into the game now. They just can't tell the difference between those and alcohol so they drink whatever and it's difficult to control.
Also,with beer causing drunkness in people does that mean the we are somewhat close to get,or at least mod,potions that cause other effects in dorfs into the game now?
Are adventurers experience any side effect caused by beer on this update?On Twitter, Toady talked about an adventurer who likes brawls, drinking, and trouble ending up "Bleeding, wasted in the mud". So it looks like adventurers will be able to get drunk.
Also,with beer causing drunkness in people does that mean the we are somewhat close to get,or at least mod,potions that cause other effects in dorfs into the game now?
Last minute question here. Can a down-on-his-luck "deity" come as a visitor to your tavern, or apply for citizenship? And if so, will his status have any !!FUN!! effects?
Regarding that, what sorts of issues are you running into with 32/64-bit compatibility? The main issue being mentioned is the difference in sizes of integer types (namely "long"), which I suppose you could resolve with fixed-width types (stdint.h), although it would be a pain to rewrite an entire project (or even just the (un)serialization code) to use those.
Is adding a default controller that leads a unit to a relative or nearby site or even just keeps them from sleeping eternally possible?
If I make some toys and "accidentally" leave them lying around, will they play with them?
Quote from: Daniel the FinlanderI assume that the current growth rates of trees will be adjusted, because they grow ridiculously fast right now, but will trees grow at realistic speeds or at accelerated speeds? If the latter is the case, probably because of gameplay reasons, how much faster will they grow?Quote from: jwoodward48df1. Did you intend for the tree density to increase quickly over time (and not just some of the time in some embarks, but always)?
2. If so, was this to remove strain on hardware?
3. Do you currently have methods in place to prevent tree density from increasing? If so, what?
4. Have those methods, if any, changed from DF2014 to DF2015?
What's the plan for paper-making industry? Will there be multiple types of "paper", like papyrus, large leaves, parchment, velum, hemp, dwarven beard hair fiber paper, plump helmet pulp paper? Will we be able to use paper to make other objects, like paper crafts, paper charms, paper windows or paper armor?
Will taverns exclusively dispense alcohol, or would it be possible to make something like coffee and tea with a different syndrome? If a food item comes with an alcohol-like syndrome, a magic mushroom for instance, is there a mechanic by which dwarves would recognize that food as syndrome-inducing or would they just chow down haphazardly?
If one were to mod in a civilization that was intelligent but did not have hands, like a race of dragons or alien blobs or whatever, would they be able to recruit visitors to manufacture items for them? If they permit slavery or are baby snatchers, would they be able to recruit captives to manufacture items for them?
You mentioned "books disguised as levers". Is this going to be a thing? Will I one day go in a library and try to take a book, only for the game to be like "Congratulations you found a secret lever HERE HAVE SOME MAGMA"
Will there be more things disguised as things? (Will it possible to learn the true nature of disguised things from people who know about it?) What about secret doorways?
And on that note, long-term goal question: Will there be the possibility of automatic lever handling? So that I can assign dorfs to guard lever-controlled doors, who will pull the lever when someone friendly wants through, or assign certain lever positions to certain alarm settings...
So, if immigrants now bring their values with them, does this mean that now you will be able to take say a goblin (or an elf? not sure which) into your fort and make him a butcher so he can butcher dwarf (etc.) corpses since goblins (or elves?) are ok with butchering intelligent beings?
Will we see an embark scenario where we found a new Civ all on our own?
Will immigrant egg-layers like kobolds or a (presumably modded) animalman like a platypus man be able to use nest boxes?
If it is not going to be changed in the next release in order to make foreign race AI soldiers use equipment from their own civilization; what equipment are the animal people that now take up residence in sites going to be given since they have no entity of their own with equipment to use?
Will there be roadside inns outside of towns in the next update? I don't recall you mentioning in the devblog, just in the development notes.
Are petitions purely a player decision, or do other members of your civ have opinions? In other words, can unpopular decisions in immigration policy result in poor public happiness and unrest?
Can we shout an argument for everybody in earshot to hear to start trouble faster, or do we have to piss off everybody individually?
Well, what I really want to know is how it'll interact with reactions which take more than one stacking item. This doesn't come up much in vanilla obviously, but let's say I make a mixed-fruit brewing reaction that requires two fruit and produces 10 fruit punch. I want to limit the size of the product to 20, to keep it in line with other brewing reactions in terms of how fast you can crank it out. So I use [MAXREACTIONS:2] or whatever the tag is.
Now here's the tricky bit: let's say the brewer picked up a 5-stack of strawberries and a 1-stack of pomegranates (in that order). In the current system, brewing these together would form a 30-stack of fruit punch - even though the reagents are defined in identical quantities, they function as absolute minimums, and proportions are ignored.
In the new version with [MAXREACTIONS:2], what happens? Do we get a 10-stack of fruit punch and 4 leftover strawberries; a 20-stack of fruit punch and 2 leftover strawberries; or a 20-stack of fruit punch, 1 leftover strawberry and 1 leftover pomegranate (because the strawberries were picked up first, so the game pulls from the strawberry pile until it hits the reaction cap)?
Are there plans for a "global justice" system, or rather something like supra-regional extradition agreements? That could involve a bandit visiting our Tavern being wanted by our parent civ and consequently being arrested and extradited with a liaison. (and could then the same happen to our adventurer?)
More generally, do you have any plans beyond "It would be nice to have" for the Justice and Diplomacy "arcs" to have intertwined features such as described above?
I'm thinking of extradition agreements, trade or common law unions, and prisoner exchange with enemy civs.
Oh, that reminds me:
Will nobles write special books that progress statesmanship/law like the other books do to their field? Specifically, will we see law compendiums, reforms, capitularies, etc?
Now that the release is a lot closer to done than the last time I asked, what are the additions to the raws for this update going to be? Like are there now tokens to influence what kind of dance or music styles civilizations develop, or whether they build libraries and what they like to put in those libraries?
How random do you think deities should be? For example, would a deity be able to have domain over contradicting spheres, such as Fire and Water or Sun and Caverns? I tried using randomization to generate mythological associations, and got unintuitive combinations like a Wind God that was associated with Slug Men and Brewing and a Trickery God that was depicted as a Sperm Whale Man and rode upon a Giant Desert Scorpion. There were strong opinions about whether or not that was okay. If/when gods and mythology are expanded upon to include such information, would they be completely random like that, or would there be some guidance in the algorithms to prevent certain combinations?
Can adventurers request permanent residence at Player Fortresses while playing them in adventure mode? If so, what noble would the adventurer need to speak to?
From how far away will visitors come? Will it be a case of no human neighbours=no human visitors or will travellers journey to the far ends of the planet in search of legendary Dwarfish mead and dingo roasts?
What is the criteria for creatures coming to visit? Would gorlaks, troglodytes and trolls, or wandering overworld animal-folk be able to walk into your taverns and start partying or will they still operate as wild animals? Will wandering gorlaks/trogs/trolls/animal-folk be equipped with weapons or armor or skills from interacting with other civs? I haven't seen kobolds mentioned in the visitor examples, are they capable of visiting?
Are there any plans fiddling with SVN?
While this won't be an issue in Vanilla, what happens if you're playing a race that's not opposed to cannibalism, and you start serving the meat of sapients in your tavern? Will other races, particularly the ones whose kindred you've butchered, object to this state of affairs?
Are adventurers experience any side effect caused by beer on this update?
Can adult dwarfs play with their children?
Quote from: DarthAgnanSo, if immigrants now bring their values with them, does this mean that now you will be able to take say a goblin (or an elf? not sure which) into your fort and make him a butcher so he can butcher dwarf (etc.) corpses since goblins (or elves?) are ok with butchering intelligent beings?
Nope. The interface for building jobs still uses your base civ. I'm not sure how it could work -- perhaps you'd have to assign the unusual critter to the workshop profile or something.
I've got plenty of questions on my brain, but only three not related to the new release:
1. When do you plan to have children and spouses inherit noble positions from their dead parents/spouses? While it's convenient that I can get rid of the nobility with a single unfortunate accident, it sucks knowing that all the work you put into making your baron/count/duke some very nice rooms with very nice furniture will be for naught once they croak.
2. On a related note, do you have plans to make the children and spouses of nobles act like nobles? No, I'm not a masochist, why do you ask?
3. I know you said you'll be planning on hunting down bugs for a while, but what new features do you plan to work on next?
It seems, primarily, 64 bit will permit almost arbitrarily large fortresses and almost arbitrarily large worlds with almost arbitrarily long histories and very large populations. Of course, there are the processing limitations on speed and whatnot, but people will be a lot less likely to hit the memory limits anyway now.
2. At what point do you intend to switch to 64bit and what kind of new features will this allow you to implement?
if that happens i'll have to buy a 64bit pc just to play DFIt seems, primarily, 64 bit will permit almost arbitrarily large fortresses and almost arbitrarily large worlds with almost arbitrarily long histories and very large populations. Of course, there are the processing limitations on speed and whatnot, but people will be a lot less likely to hit the memory limits anyway now.
2. At what point do you intend to switch to 64bit and what kind of new features will this allow you to implement?
Chances are you already posses one. The vast majority of current CPU's are 64bit, in fact from a few years it has been like that. What happens is that the 32 OS used to be/are more popular or commonly found.
Most likely you just need to buy a 64 bits windows or install a 64 bits distro of linux and install more RAM (I recommend at least 8 for 64bit OS).
When in doubt ask some friend that knows about computers for help. Or search on the internet. All you need to know is wich CPU you have.Chances are you already posses one. The vast majority of current CPU's are 64bit, in fact from a few years it has been like that. What happens is that the 32 OS used to be/are more popular or commonly found.
Most likely you just need to buy a 64 bits windows or install a 64 bits distro of linux and install more RAM (I recommend at least 8 for 64bit OS).
thank you, I’ll start checking prices
There has to be a workaround somewhere because the main reason I didn't notice it last night was starting in a dorf run town with a tomb, so I just went down and butchered and crafted stuff from some of the dorf skeletons down there.
2. On a related note, do you have plans to make the children and spouses of nobles act like nobles? No, I'm not a masochist, why do you ask?
2. On a related note, do you have plans to make the children and spouses of nobles act like nobles? No, I'm not a masochist, why do you ask?
What happens when some random price migrates to your fortress during the first year and then demands a royal bedroom? What if we got a dozen of them?
First, you ask yourself: "What's the worst thing that could happen if they all died in an unfortunate accident?". Second, you ask yourself: "Would that be worse than having to make room for all these bastards?"2. On a related note, do you have plans to make the children and spouses of nobles act like nobles? No, I'm not a masochist, why do you ask?
What happens when some random price migrates to your fortress during the first year and then demands a royal bedroom? What if we got a dozen of them?
There has to be a workaround somewhere because the main reason I didn't notice it last night was starting in a dorf run town with a tomb, so I just went down and butchered and crafted stuff from some of the dorf skeletons down there.
What heresy is this. How? D:
So far all I can think of is to just make semi-megabeast non-sentient. ;w;
Derp. I could've sworn in DF2012, you couldn't butcher sentients at all unless you were starving. Then DF2014 changed that to universal butchery, and there was much rejoicing.This is correct. Notably, back in DF2012 if you found sapients that had already been butchered (say, in the lair of a night troll) you could eat it with no problems.
Yeah, I'm still playing around with it, but either goblin ethics are different enough or my interaction worked. Been too busy dancing to remember to test it on someone I hadn't marked.
Eh, the only thing I find silly is that goblins are hit by this, I haven't tested elves, but they REALLY shouldn't be hit by it, as it is kinda one of their things.Yeah, I'm still playing around with it, but either goblin ethics are different enough or my interaction worked. Been too busy dancing to remember to test it on someone I hadn't marked.
Hmm. I wish it was possible to instead just make them unintelligent on death automatically.
Marking them with a "get in mah bellah" interaction seems silly.
I also fixed the older bug causing constructions to crash when placed over tree tiles.Woohoo, at last! Thank you Toady.
Woah, I just noticed that there are tooltips in the craftdwarfshop->instruments/instrument pieces menu.
Is DF going casual on us now?
More seriously, are there plans to expand this system soon?
[REACTION:SCP_294_DISPENSE_LIQUID_JUG] yeah turns out 294 is euclid, the hell
[NAME:Dispense liquid (jug)]
[BUILDING:SCP_294:CUSTOM_J]
[REAGENT:container:1:NONE:NONE:NONE:NONE][HAS_TOOL_USE:LIQUID_CONTAINER][EMPTY][PRESERVE_REAGENT][DOES_NOT_DETERMINE_PRODUCT_AMOUNT]
[PRODUCT:100:1:LIQUID_MISC:NONE:INORGANIC:IRON][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150][PRODUCT_TO_CONTAINER:container]
[REACTION:SCP_294_DISPENSE_LIQUID_BUCKET]
[NAME:Dispense liquid (bucket)]
[BUILDING:SCP_294:CUSTOM_B]
[REAGENT:container:1:BUCKET:NONE:NONE:NONE][EMPTY][PRESERVE_REAGENT][DOES_NOT_DETERMINE_PRODUCT_AMOUNT]
[PRODUCT:100:1:LIQUID_MISC:NONE:INORGANIC:IRON][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150][PRODUCT_TO_CONTAINER:container]
[REACTION:SCP_294_DISPENSE_LIQUID_BARREL]
[NAME:Dispense liquid (barrel)]
[BUILDING:SCP_294:CUSTOM_SHIFT_B]
[REAGENT:container:1:NONE:NONE:NONE:NONE][FOOD_STORAGE_CONTAINER][EMPTY][PRESERVE_REAGENT][DOES_NOT_DETERMINE_PRODUCT_AMOUNT]
[PRODUCT:100:1:LIQUID_MISC:NONE:INORGANIC:IRON][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150][PRODUCT_TO_CONTAINER:container]
[REACTION:SCP_294_DISPENSE_LIQUID_FLASK]
[NAME:Dispense liquid (flask)]
[BUILDING:SCP_294:CUSTOM_F]
[REAGENT:container:1:FLASK:NONE:NONE:NONE][EMPTY][PRESERVE_REAGENT][DOES_NOT_DETERMINE_PRODUCT_AMOUNT]
[PRODUCT:100:1:LIQUID_MISC:NONE:INORGANIC:IRON][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150][PRODUCT_TO_CONTAINER:container]
[REACTION:LUA_HOOK_SCP_294_SELECT_LIQUID_FOR_DISPENSING]
[NAME:Select liquid]
[BUILDING:SCP_294:CUSTOM_S]
[REAGENT:anything:1:NONE:NONE:NONE:NONE][PRESERVE_REAGENT]
[PRODUCT:0:1:CHEESE:NONE:INORGANIC:TITANIUM_SCP]
[REACTION:SCP_294_DISPENSE_LIQUID_JUG] yeah turns out 294 is euclid, the hell
[NAME:Jug]
[BUILDING:SCP_294:CUSTOM_J]
[REAGENT:container:1:NONE:NONE:NONE:NONE][HAS_TOOL_USE:LIQUID_CONTAINER][EMPTY][PRESERVE_REAGENT][DOES_NOT_DETERMINE_PRODUCT_AMOUNT]
[PRODUCT:100:1:LIQUID_MISC:NONE:INORGANIC:IRON][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150][PRODUCT_TO_CONTAINER:container]
[CATEGORY:SCP_294_DISPENSE]
[CATEGORY_NAME:Dispense liquid into...] i am so in the honeymoon phase with these categories
[CATEGORY_DESCRIPTION:Various choices for containers to dispense the chosen liquid into.]
[CASTEGORY_KEY:CUSTOM_D]
[REACTION:SCP_294_DISPENSE_LIQUID_BUCKET]
[NAME:Bucket]
[BUILDING:SCP_294:CUSTOM_V]
[REAGENT:container:1:BUCKET:NONE:NONE:NONE][EMPTY][PRESERVE_REAGENT][DOES_NOT_DETERMINE_PRODUCT_AMOUNT]
[PRODUCT:100:1:LIQUID_MISC:NONE:INORGANIC:IRON][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150][PRODUCT_TO_CONTAINER:container]
[CATEGORY:SCP_294_DISPENSE]
[REACTION:SCP_294_DISPENSE_LIQUID_BARREL]
[NAME:Barrel]
[BUILDING:SCP_294:CUSTOM_L]
[REAGENT:container:1:NONE:NONE:NONE:NONE][FOOD_STORAGE_CONTAINER][EMPTY][PRESERVE_REAGENT][DOES_NOT_DETERMINE_PRODUCT_AMOUNT]
[PRODUCT:100:1:LIQUID_MISC:NONE:INORGANIC:IRON][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150][PRODUCT_TO_CONTAINER:container]
[CATEGORY:SCP_294_DISPENSE]
[REACTION:SCP_294_DISPENSE_LIQUID_FLASK]
[NAME:Flask]
[BUILDING:SCP_294:CUSTOM_F]
[REAGENT:container:1:FLASK:NONE:NONE:NONE][EMPTY][PRESERVE_REAGENT][DOES_NOT_DETERMINE_PRODUCT_AMOUNT]
[PRODUCT:100:1:LIQUID_MISC:NONE:INORGANIC:IRON][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150][PRODUCT_TO_CONTAINER:container]
[CATEGORY:SCP_294_DISPENSE]
[REACTION:LUA_HOOK_SCP_294_SELECT_LIQUID_FOR_DISPENSING]
[NAME:Select liquid]
[BUILDING:SCP_294:CUSTOM_S]
[REAGENT:anything:1:NONE:NONE:NONE:NONE][PRESERVE_REAGENT]
[PRODUCT:0:1:CHEESE:NONE:INORGANIC:TITANIUM_SCP]
Incidentally, what does it take to make bows useful in adventure mode? They seem to unavoidably lock the player out of acting for a good five seconds whenever you shoot, while being remarkably ineffective.
Scholars stealing books from our libraries when they leave: intended, happy accident, or bug?
Scholars stealing books from our libraries when they leave: intended, happy accident, or bug?
BTW, can you make a copy of a copy?Copy Of Copy Of New Text Document (132).txt
The current scribe used to be the scholar that wrote most of the books/quires in my library, and he is a Talented Reader and a Novice Writer.Well there's your problem; you can't expect a good author to mindlessly copy out his work over and over again! You need to assign someone useless like a potash maker to do the scribing.
Toady, there are certain Adventure Mode sites that are simply impossible to navigate due to lag, notably dwarven fortresses and goblin towers. Do you have any current plans to address this issue?He in fact hopes to add in crash bugs along with the lag.
You realise they're immortal, right? What would a dwarven weaponmaster look like after one thousand years of training? 8)
While 34.11 and previous versions "spawned" sieges had often gob weapon masters, this does not happen in either df2014 or 42.x with the new "marching armies" of those versions and all the goblin sieges through the years i faced in any of my forts are always made of low skilled gob soldiers or recruits.
And considering they take 2/3 years to decide to come to your fortress in 42.01, it's important to note that the current dwarven military training can easily deliver a couple of legendary dwarves in only a couple of years by simply them sparring, transforming those gob sieges that were supposed to be threat a simple walk in the park when a single legendary dwarf can kill a dozen of those invading gobs by himself in no time.
So do you have plans to have gobs training their military skills in their dark sites the same as dwarves does in your fortress to get sieges challenging again ?
Also, did you take titan/megabeast worshippers into consideration when implementing the worship need & who you can build temples for?[/color]They should be good to go once they appear at your fortress.
Quote from: Rockphed...
Also, if we have people who worship a megabeast or titan in our fortress, will we be able to create a temple to said creature? If it invades, it could see the temple in its honor and either decide that it is a nice place to stick around, or just that since we worship it, it doesn't need to murder all our citizens.
...
Yeah, if you have a citizen that worships whatever, it is in the list. This'll matter most if you start to bring in outside people... you'd theoretically be able to set up a temple in your fort to the elven regional spirit if you've invited an elf to join up. Perhaps that should upset traditionalists, or any dwarves of good character.
You realise they're immortal, right? What would a dwarven weaponmaster look like after one thousand years of training? 8)
Attributes are capped in Adventure mode and probably also in Dwarf mode. Those caps are governed by MENT_ATT_CAP_PERC and PHYS_ATT_CAP_PERC. By default the maximum attribute values (barring increases from vampirism and other interactions) are governed by the starting value as well as the median for that caste (that is the middle value in PHYS_ATT_RANGE, for example 1000 for most attributes for Dwarves). attribute_cap = starting_value + max {starting_value, median}
MENT_ATT_CAP_PERC
Default is 200. This means you can increase your attribute to 200% of its starting value (or the average value + your starting value if that is higher).
PHYS_ATT_CAP_PERCSo while logically powerful, a thousand year old ultra trained goblin wouldn't still be more unbeatable than your average long lived demigod or vampire-turned adventurer in adventure mode, but would still put a challenge to your fast learning legendary soldiers, what the currently weak soldiers gob unfortunately aren't able to.
Default is 200. This means you can increase your attribute to 200% of its starting value (or the average value + your starting value if that is higher).
Personally I think it's stranger that your dwarves can become legendary in such a short time, and through training alone to boot.
While 34.11 and previous versions "spawned" sieges had often gob weapon masters, this does not happen in either df2014 or 42.x with the new "marching armies" of those versions and all the goblin sieges through the years i faced in any of my forts are always made of low skilled gob soldiers or recruits.
And considering they take 2/3 years to decide to come to your fortress in 42.01, it's important to note that the current dwarven military training can easily deliver a couple of legendary dwarves in only a couple of years by simply them sparring, transforming those gob sieges that were supposed to be threat a simple walk in the park when a single legendary dwarf can kill a dozen of those invading gobs by himself in no time.
So do you have plans to have gobs training their military skills in their dark sites the same as dwarves does in your fortress to get sieges challenging again ?
Personally I think it's stranger that your dwarves can become legendary in such a short time, and through training alone to boot.
While 34.11 and previous versions "spawned" sieges had often gob weapon masters, this does not happen in either df2014 or 42.x with the new "marching armies" of those versions and all the goblin sieges through the years i faced in any of my forts are always made of low skilled gob soldiers or recruits.
And considering they take 2/3 years to decide to come to your fortress in 42.01, it's important to note that the current dwarven military training can easily deliver a couple of legendary dwarves in only a couple of years by simply them sparring, transforming those gob sieges that were supposed to be threat a simple walk in the park when a single legendary dwarf can kill a dozen of those invading gobs by himself in no time.
So do you have plans to have gobs training their military skills in their dark sites the same as dwarves does in your fortress to get sieges challenging again ?
By fixing the militia armor bug do you mean the old bug of them not wearing armor properly or something new? Does armor work fine now?The armor works just fine, and it always has. The problem is the dwarf who never learned to wear it properly :)
Right now we can accept people into our fort and they will be sad being separated from loved ones. Will dwarves ever immigrate to our fortress to be with their families? Also, will dwarves ever emigrate from the fort for any reason?
Are games, recipes and gambling still on the table for this release cycle or are they going to be postponed to an undefined future date so as to make way for the incoming artifact cycle?Games and recipes were originally scheduled for the release after this one (Taverns Part 2). That seems to be not the case any more - gambling and legendary cupcakes requiring an economy to function properly and artifacts are more exciting because magic dorfs - but, yes would be nice to know if we'll see some simplified version of games in the near future or if it's off for a few years yet.
Games and recipes were originally scheduled for the release after this one (Taverns Part 2). That seems to be not the case any more - gambling and legendary cupcakes requiring an economy to function properly and artifacts are more exciting because magic dorfs - but, yes would be nice to know if we'll see some simplified version of games in the near future or if it's off for a few years yet.
I just wish dwarves took better care of themselves. I have a temple to Iwo and name-brand temple and I still have a large number of dwarves upset because they haven't prayed recently. I have lots of jobs, but dwarves still just go for the closest one, instead of choosing to take jobs that fit their personalities better.
Don't get me wrong, I love the new personality system, I just wish it was a little bit more connected to player input.
EDIT: And why do merchants bring unending torrents of blood? I really do not need salt water crocodile blood, fly ichor, polar bear blood, mule blood, pig blood, thrush blood, ant ichor, horse blood, fresh water crocodile blood, sea cucumber ichor, more horse blood, giant peach faced lovebird man blood, cow blood, more horse blood, brown bear blood, ant man ichor, gazelle blood, and blood blood. It's not like my resident vampire will drink it instead of the fresh stuff.
Yes, you and I may think like that but...some people...lapse into multiple year strange moods when they start down certain paths and only they know best what might trigger such a reaction. Besides, magic dorfs.Games and recipes were originally scheduled for the release after this one (Taverns Part 2). That seems to be not the case any more - gambling and legendary cupcakes requiring an economy to function properly and artifacts are more exciting because magic dorfs - but, yes would be nice to know if we'll see some simplified version of games in the near future or if it's off for a few years yet.
You don't need to set up an entire economy framework for recipes and games. Recipes are basically cooking forms (like music forms or poetry forms), and games don't need to have gambling associated to it.
I reduced the severity of syndromes from ingested spatter (which should stop self-cleaning cats spattered with alcohol from getting sick all the time).
Did Toady ever speak about making multi-tile creatures ? In a near or far future ?Yes. Yes.
Definitely not in the next few feature releases - those will (most likely) be the Artifact and the Starting Scenario sections (maybe with the skipped part of the Tavern section inserted somewhere between). Then boats and multi-tile creatures could be the "fifth" section of the dev page (and they have some strong competition like economy work or thief role work).
Definitely not in the next few feature releases - those will (most likely) be the Artifact and the Starting Scenario sections (maybe with the skipped part of the Tavern section inserted somewhere between). Then boats and multi-tile creatures could be the "fifth" section of the dev page (and they have some strong competition like economy work or thief role work).
I didn't know that there would be ships. These would be some sort of caravans I imagine ? I hardly imagine my dwarves building a ship going nowhere but near the fortress...
Also what is the "skipped part of the Tavern section" you mentionned ?
Ships will probably start as accessories to trade, but I wouldn't be surprised if some kind of naval army/combat system is added at the same time.
The skipped bits of the Tavern section include recipes, drink quality, games and gambling, and "Set Prices/Activities." You can find this on the development page here (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html), along with other tantalizing details about what is entailed by the imminent Artifacts and Starting Scenarios development.
Now you've gotten creating world unique instruments under your belt, could this lead to other unique tools and items such as some forms of weaponry?
Now you've gotten creating world unique instruments under your belt, could this lead to other unique tools and items such as some forms of weaponry?Definitely. There actually already are "random" weapons for spoiler entities, not that they have any variance yet, but Toady definitely plans more randomized content.
I bet weapons are to exacting to be rng'ed up.I doubt it. The main problem right now is that there isn't much to vary for random weapons (and even less so for other items), as I've noticed in my random entity creature script. The main difficulty would be the "exposition" I guess.
How do you test new features? Do you make them in various separated prototypes and then add them to the game?Yes, Toady mentioned that a few times. The multi-tile creature tests were a separate prototype from what I remember, and I think the new needs system also started its life as such a prototype. (I'm not sure if the myth generator Toady experimented with counts as a prototype in your sense, since it apparently just generates the mythological background without the appropriate in-game content).
Will the amount of food that can be fairly effortlessly gathered off the surface from trees and bushes be nerfed a bit to help food/drink resource management not feel so trivial?
I bet weapons are to exacting to be rng'ed up.I doubt it. The main problem right now is that there isn't much to vary for random weapons (and even less so for other items), as I've noticed in my random entity creature script. The main difficulty would be the "exposition" I guess.
I bet weapons are to exacting to be rng'ed up.I doubt it. The main problem right now is that there isn't much to vary for random weapons (and even less so for other items), as I've noticed in my random entity creature script. The main difficulty would be the "exposition" I guess.
Exposition would defiantly be the load bearing feature. If you take thing like, swords or spears or hammers, as simply descriptive instead of prescriptive, the game could just generate us some very broad, dull "swords" that'll use the sword skills, but they're maces or hammers. If we get abstracted description of the sword that might help us? But unlike musical instruments, where its mostly abstraction, for combat there a fair bit of simulation.
Eventually the playerbase would learn what the descriptor mean for weapons, and we'll be able to tell when it give us fat swords or light hammers.
Right now, human villages aren't very interesting when compared to their towns, who now have several different types of buildings. Are there any plans to expand the buildings available to the smaller sites, so that we can perhaps see the occasional small inn, shop, or shrine in them?
You'd think the reverse would make sense, wouldn't you.I JUST WANT TO GROW PIG TAILS YEAR ROUND WITHOUT FEELING LIKE I'M CHEATING
You could mod shearable tails onto pigs... :)You'd think the reverse would make sense, wouldn't you.I JUST WANT TO GROW PIG TAILS YEAR ROUND WITHOUT FEELING LIKE I'M CHEATING
...honestly, which is more filling? Most people... don't eat elephant hearts.What's wrong with elephant hearts? I mean there's conservation issues, sure. But all that solid muscle is probably tasty. Better than small chicken hearts you can buy.
...honestly, which is more filling? Most people... don't eat elephant hearts.What's wrong with elephant hearts? I mean there's conservation issues, sure. But all that solid muscle is probably tasty. Better than small chicken hearts you can buy.
I wouldn't mind seeing something like the current system for instruments for weapons. Could have differently sized weapons that may or may not require multiple parts or be a construction. It would make things like large stationary mechanical arbalests just as likely as fist-mounted morningstars. Skills could be weapon-type based I guess. A master uristsword user Master Small Bladed Weapon User or whatever.I bet weapons are to exacting to be rng'ed up.I doubt it. The main problem right now is that there isn't much to vary for random weapons (and even less so for other items), as I've noticed in my random entity creature script. The main difficulty would be the "exposition" I guess.
Exposition would defiantly be the load bearing feature. If you take thing like, swords or spears or hammers, as simply descriptive instead of prescriptive, the game could just generate us some very broad, dull "swords" that'll use the sword skills, but they're maces or hammers. If we get abstracted description of the sword that might help us? But unlike musical instruments, where its mostly abstraction, for combat there a fair bit of simulation.
Eventually the playerbase would learn what the descriptor mean for weapons, and we'll be able to tell when it give us fat swords or light hammers.
Bleh. I'd rather not have the WEAPONS use the random gibberish names. <.<I think Toady has said several times he wants to get to the point of random generation slider, where we can either choose between 100% raw stuff or 100% generated alien world. I think the instruments were mostly a case of flexing the fingers for this then, and we'll get violin raws in the future.
That's been my big pet peeve with the instruments. All of them could easily be given a name and adjective that sums them up by comparing them to a real-world instrument, because they're all built with real-world properties in mind. So I can never tell what the hell I'm looking at unless I go into the item description, when at a bare minimum the skill used and thus the instrument class (percussion, wind, string, etc) should be obvious at a glance.
(*) Made training marksdwarves want both combat and training ammunition and fetch stacks appropriately (thanks to ag for analyzing this one)
In DFTalk #14 (http://www.bay12games.com/media/df_talk_14_transcript.html), you mention Werebeast-generation using the same selection of creatures as Forgotten Beast-generation, hence monstrosities like Weremaggots. It doesn't seem to have worked out that way, with a more mammalian/reptilian/real-world-based selection, and even wolves seemingly excluded from the pool. Will this change anytime soon?
That's good to know. It must just be the odds. I've never seen one, not even in the Arena.In DFTalk #14 (http://www.bay12games.com/media/df_talk_14_transcript.html), you mention Werebeast-generation using the same selection of creatures as Forgotten Beast-generation, hence monstrosities like Weremaggots. It doesn't seem to have worked out that way, with a more mammalian/reptilian/real-world-based selection, and even wolves seemingly excluded from the pool. Will this change anytime soon?
Strange, I've seen a werewolf before. Granted, only once, but still.
Bleh. I'd rather not have the WEAPONS use the random gibberish names. <.<Aw.... :(
Hush, or you'll be neck-deep in werekobolds. o3oThere's an idea. With a bit of DFHackery, you could have them spout random, unintelligible taunts.
I miss that shit, yeah.
I also miss quests. ;w;
*game suddenly stops*Care to explain for those who haven't been around since the forging of time?
*you're dropped out of fast travel*
*an alert pops up*
Kilishreembus!
Ah, the nostalgia.
Do you plan to come back with quests or assignments in adventure mode in any way?
Or you could be a legendary singer and have people love you for a purely positive action ]
The dwarven language does not know the word "impossible".Or you could be a legendary singer and have people love you for a purely positive action ]
It's impossible to be a hero just singing.
Will settled dwarves ever leave the fortress for any reason? Like, say, an accused vampire fleeing justice? Or your dwarves fleeing a tyrannical overseer?
Okay, well
Now that we have dwarves suffocating on their own vomit, will there ever be some kind of dwarven CPR or other advanced medical procedures?
They already can, as far as I know.
Not quite. I have heard of a "long-term resident", such as those you describe, becoming actual residents, and thus behaving just the same as your own dwarves.They already can, as far as I know.
When they settle in your fort, the military ones can only be members (not leaders) of squads, and they can't be assigned labors, they only do the job they offered initially (entertainer/scholar/religious figure)
Will there ever be an Adventurer Mode theme?
I say that, because I like the music of Dwarf Fortress (I think the Fortress theme really summarizes the main theme of the game: Histories of Greed and Labor) and I like symmetry. :D
Will there ever be an Adventurer Mode theme?
I say that, because I like the music of Dwarf Fortress (I think the Fortress theme really summarizes the main theme of the game: Histories of Greed and Labor) and I like symmetry. :D
Open the game and check again.
Will there ever be an Adventurer Mode theme?
I say that, because I like the music of Dwarf Fortress (I think the Fortress theme really summarizes the main theme of the game: Histories of Greed and Labor) and I like symmetry. :D
Open the game and check again.
? there's still only two songs, the title and the dwarf mode
Will there ever be an Adventurer Mode theme?
I say that, because I like the music of Dwarf Fortress (I think the Fortress theme really summarizes the main theme of the game: Histories of Greed and Labor) and I like symmetry. :D
Open the game and check again.
? there's still only two songs, the title and the dwarf mode
I think he's referring to the fact that the title tagline changes. The "Histories of X and Y" thing.
There is only one fitting song for Dwarf Fortress, in either mode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjZ1B897Tuk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjZ1B897Tuk)What about these?
This bodes unwell. owoYeah, anyone know what this means?
(probably busted, posted in the thread)
That's not very likely to happen unless we get some hint of what the conditions are that should result in someone petitioning for citizenship.(probably busted, posted in the thread)
Can someone give toady a save with that?
I would but no fort going right now, last one fell into chaos.
like the guy asking in this thread.
From the other thread:That's not very likely to happen unless we get some hint of what the conditions are that should result in someone petitioning for citizenship.(probably busted, posted in the thread)
Can someone give toady a save with that?
I would but no fort going right now, last one fell into chaos.
like the guy asking in this thread.
It's only supposed to take a few years if they are happy, so something seems to be going on. Of course, it tested out fine, as usual, but that's never stopped it from being totally broken. A bug report on the tracker coupled with a dffd save with some stale happy non-citizen-petitioning long-term residents will probably allow me to patch this up quickly.So you need residents who have been around for a few years with their needs reasonably satisfied.
According to the Mantis change log, it's now been fixed.All hail the Toad!
But will that actually have that functionality? Will my Necromancer "control" that tower and invade my fort with his undead armies, or will he come alone if at all?
The biggest siege I've ever gotten in 42.03 was 120. However, all the sieges after it were smaller, even though my fortress continued to get wealthier. Is this a bug?
How do I check for this possibility? Legends mode?The biggest siege I've ever gotten in 42.03 was 120. However, all the sieges after it were smaller, even though my fortress continued to get wealthier. Is this a bug?
The Goblins could be running out of population.
How was the lutefisk?From Toady's blog:
I have only now regained the ability to speak. It was more like fish cartilage than fish jello this time. We all survived.
Oh good god giant elephants are going to be fun. I predict the Elves use them as war-mounts.
now we've got giant and person versions for most of the original animals. The newer animals from the sponsorship drive came with those forms, but we never did have giant elephants and various large bears and all the great cat people and so forth.
Would giant elephants be large enough to qualify to be multi tile?
Well.
In case it has not yet sunk in: DOOOOOOOOOOOM.
Would giant elephants be large enough to qualify to be multi tile?
Multitile creatures will not happen any time soon. Those giant elephants will be one-tile - like already existing gigantic monsters like bronze collosuses, dragons, forgotten beasts etc.
I probably should have rephrased that to question whether all creatures based on large size will have a rehaul and rebranding as 'multi-tile' once they exceed a certain size. If we are doing math on the exact size of layers in comparison to existing animals that is.If/when Toady introduces multi-tile creatures, I guess they will be reworked by hand. I already can imagine it will be horrible pain in ass, and probably enemies digging/destroying tiles would have to be introduced earlier, unless you want big monsters stucked harmlessly on smallest obstacle.
Great. Now all I can think of is a trail of "S"s which gain one S every time it eats a dwarf.
Some quick legends-trawling:
"Drinkis", Female Kobold. {Like Sankis, but even drunker and a kobold?}
"Stinkus", Male Kobold. {Really, game?}
"Beeris", Female Kobold.
Great. Now all I can think of is a trail of "S"s which gain one S every time it eats a dwarf.
[NO_BRAKES][DIES_ON_COLLIDE]
(it only had the big cats and a scorpion -- big cats are in their proper files now, and I mentioned the scorpion in the change log, it'll be back)
Wait, Toady took out the GDS? Noooooooo!
You can put it back in?
I'm pretty sure most vampires have hundreds if not thousands of sentient kills, though I don't know whether that's from the draining or the simple fact that they had 500 years to kill all those people.
Severing all non-smashed heads on a zombie kills it (smashing already worked), and severing or smashing any working grasp on a headless zombie kills it. Zombies can still be reanimated if they have a working grasp.So a normal human zombie will die if you cut it's head off, at which point it can be re-re-animated, then die if you cut an arm/hand off, can get re-re-re-animated, and then be permanently dead once you chop off the other arm?
QuoteSevering all non-smashed heads on a zombie kills it (smashing already worked), and severing or smashing any working grasp on a headless zombie kills it. Zombies can still be reanimated if they have a working grasp.So a normal human zombie will die if you cut it's head off, at which point it can be re-re-animated, then die if you cut an arm/hand off, can get re-re-re-animated, and then be permanently dead once you chop off the other arm?
Planned. Except maybe the hereditary attributes, besides what the genetics system gives the offspring from both parents. But yea, there plans to mary, and have offspring. Then play as your kid, don your old stuff and have at the world.
On a related note, if you can advance time, it opens up the possibility to marry/create descendants. You could have things like family artifacts and hereditary attributes which would be pretty cool.
Do kids play with imaginary friends now? Do said imaginary friends not show up on the relationships screen? Because there's a kid playing with "Orshetdanman", and I can't find any "Orshetdanman" in the fortress.
Ah, yes, my 39600 dwarfbuck beak dog bone puzzlebox. I hope he's very happy to have the privilege of playing with such a toy.Do kids play with imaginary friends now? Do said imaginary friends not show up on the relationships screen? Because there's a kid playing with "Orshetdanman", and I can't find any "Orshetdanman" in the fortress.
An artifact toy, perhaps?
Alt+Numpad-15 = ☼Ah, yes, my 39600 dwarfbuck beak dog bone puzzlebox. I hope he's very happy to have the privilege of playing with such a toy.Do kids play with imaginary friends now? Do said imaginary friends not show up on the relationships screen? Because there's a kid playing with "Orshetdanman", and I can't find any "Orshetdanman" in the fortress.
An artifact toy, perhaps?
Alt+Numpad-15 = ☼
I also fixed a bug that was causing reanimated undead to end up on two sides of conflicts (which caused further issues).Mistêm Nökorthunen, dwarven zombie was killed by the hands of Mistêm Nökorthunen severed right hand!
Oh, what a pity it is that there wasn't case where an animated hand of one person was not killed by the animated other hand of a person. It would've been such an excellent opportunity to make a joke about how the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.QuoteI also fixed a bug that was causing reanimated undead to end up on two sides of conflicts (which caused further issues).Mistêm Nökorthunen, dwarven zombie was killed by the hands of Mistêm Nökorthunen severed right hand!
Currently, coins have a quality factor in their value. Given that the point of coins is that every coin of the same material is supposed to have the same value, doesn't this defeat the purpose of coins?
Well, I'm just going off the wiki. I haven't made any coins, and I have no intention to do so.Currently, coins have a quality factor in their value. Given that the point of coins is that every coin of the same material is supposed to have the same value, doesn't this defeat the purpose of coins?
Are you sure they have quality modifiers? They definitely didn't in 0.40.24. If they do in 0.42, that sounds like a bug to me.
When it comes to deities, will they always be somewhat randomly generated, or are you considering making RAW defining deities to be an alternate option that one could take (if/when you get to it)?
if animal men receive any improvements following the introductory launch release phase of thier occupancy within your base, would you be able to set them additional labours not typically assigned to workshops? IE: task amphibious races to unrestricted building functions in underwater/lava (with magma safe clothing) settings such as the breaching of aquifers due to [nobreathe], or task legendary climbing ability flying races to scaling inaccessible rough wall verticality in order to build walls/haul/deconstruct?
do you have plans to make the children and spouses of nobles act like nobles? No, I'm not a masochist, why do you ask?
I know you said you'll be planning on hunting down bugs for a while, but what new features do you plan to work on next?
Is there any hope that with the upcoming development dealing with prehistory that we will finally see the dark fortress [CHAT_WORTHY] bug fixed allowing us to raw define chat worthy nobles for civs with dark fortress sites?
Now animal people are in the spotlight, are you going to implement something like [LAYER_LINKED] for surface animal people giving them basic weapons and armour.
Also, are you going to add in stone weaponry to equip both surface dwelling animal people and potentially the existing layer-linked ones as well.
Will adventurers be able to write diaries at some point?
Basically, every recorded event (dingo attacked, killed a deer, wandered around, climbed mountain) you could maybe find in legends mode, written in a paper we carry around, which can be found by other adventurers.
Toady: One of my biggest dreams as a modder would be the ability to lock the use of certain outfits and entity items to certain genders and positions (No men in dresses, royal guards/champions with unique outfits and weapons, different professions having preference for different outfits like priests). Would this be able to be added easily along with making clothes in various sizes for multi-creature forts?
I've noticed that you can restrict visitors from coming into your taverns, libraries, and temples. Will this ever extend to being able to ban certain races (of both visitors and your fort's own population) from accessing these locations? Like let's say I'm okay with letting human visitors and animal people hang in my taverns but elf visitors aren't allowed anywhere near my beer. Or let's say I want to treat the elves that are already within my population unfairly.
Will we ever be able to create production orders for statues/figurines/engravings of specific things?
Quote from: Max^TMToady... you monster... you fixed the sapient corpse butchering/eating/wearing.
I'm sure I'll end up figuring out a workaround before this gets answered, but was this a deliberate change or a side effect of something else, and is it just one tag or am I going to have to hunt down several to "unfix" the "fix" there?Quote from: Random_DragonAre you going to revert the "no using materials from butchering sentients" adventurer rule, or at least make it ethics-dependant? If you DO make it depend on ethics, could outsiders be free to commit cannibalism?
Scholars stealing books from our libraries when they leave: intended, happy accident, or bug?
While 34.11 and previous versions "spawned" sieges had often gob weapon masters, this does not happen in either df2014 or 42.x with the new "marching armies" of those versions and all the goblin sieges through the years i faced in any of my forts are always made of low skilled gob soldiers or recruits.
And considering they take 2/3 years to decide to come to your fortress in 42.01, it's important to note that the current dwarven military training can easily deliver a couple of legendary dwarves in only a couple of years by simply them sparring, transforming those gob sieges that were supposed to be threat a simple walk in the park when a single legendary dwarf can kill a dozen of those invading gobs by himself in no time.
So do you have plans to have gobs training their military skills in their dark sites the same as dwarves does in your fortress to get sieges challenging again ?
Toady, I've yet to get any titan/megabeast-worshipping historical figures as immigrants, despite targeting my worldgens towards creating them. Did you disallow them from immigration, or have I just been unlucky?
Also, did you take titan/megabeast worshippers into consideration when implementing the worship need & who you can build temples for?
I encountered groups of human and dwarven astronomers and scholars and mathematicians hanging out on a hillside near the fort, there were a few soldiers nearby guarding them, which made it a real pain in my ass to try and feed off of them. They hung around talking some, just kinda hanging out quietly some, in little clusters of 2 to 5, before heading back inside the fort to the library.
Much like my previous encounter with a cheetah hunting an ibex, this looked like a really natural sort of behavior, astronomers hanging out on a hillside at night studying the stars, guards escorting them, I would not have been surprised to see a telescope set up out there if they existed.
Did you include anything to encourage this behavior, or expect something like it, whereby astronomers and philosophers and naturists and such actually go outside and observe their surroundings?
I know they're small cute things, but is an adventurer gorlak supposed to be unable to open doors? I mean, he can hold a spear just fine...
Right now we can accept people into our fort and they will be sad being separated from loved ones. Will dwarves ever immigrate to our fortress to be with their families? Also, will dwarves ever emigrate from the fort for any reason?
1. Currently, the coordinates output in the Legends.xml file for sites are very imprecise and can be off by a substantial amount from where the site actually is in-game. Is there a plan to remedy this? Like, accuracy to at least the tenths or hundredths place instead of to the ones place.
2. Region borders are not exported at all. Is there a plan to implement this?
1. Will we ever have possibility to ask "What's happening?" or at least "to whom you serve?"in adventure mode?
2. I have seen a lot of loyalty cascade in adventure mode, for example than i rescued all merchants(about hubdred) from market and lord and some priests from temple, i created a band, captured hall. After it i leave the hall and one o priests that follows me tink that now he is lord... they started argue(i meant only speaking, it was in 40.24) and after hour IRL of shouting "I hear ... became a lord" they started a fight. After some point more and more merchants draws their knives... and after 10 minets IRL of fighting and about thousands pages of logs they killed my compainons and me. That's happened? In Legends i find only "Violent disagrement"
3.Is now any ingame method in adventure to understand to that faction nps belongs?
4.Why then you asked vampire about itelf in menu "ask about someone" he said : Vampire ... - it's me.
5. If you hear that army moving to settlement, how fast it will travel? Should you wait for weeks? For mounths?Will it come or not if you in settlement? Can player see how invaders capture the hall? Or it's only in abstract?
6. If you kill anyone you see in camp of marsing army, is it stop? Or enemies will load from absrtract to real and continue marsh after you leave camp?
7.If i order "to wait" me for rescued that has no family, in fortress and after it retire adventurer and unretire fortress... will him/they asked to be migrants?
8.That reasons using mayor to accept this if fortress retired?
9.That i need to do to see negative effects of alchogol to dwarves in fortress mode? If i created a burrow with one barrel of any kind of wine/beer/etc will it work?
Do you have plans for demonic fortresses (aka curious underground stuctures) to come back in any way, shape or form? Or were they supposed to be replaced by vaults?
Quote from: Random_DragonAre there any plans to bring back the idea of DF2012-style quests? As it stands, when discussing "army on the march" and "abducted child" rumors, the player is given the option to talk the other person into joining to escape or aid in a rescue mission, respectively.
Maybe beast, camp, and town harassment rumors could yield the option to offer to deal with the problem, starting it as a quest? Logically, the "agreements" section of the Quest log might be the best place to record and track agreements to exterminate bandits or beasts.Quote from: thvazDo you plan to come back with quests or assignments in adventure mode in any way?
It is impossible to know how to build good reputation with a entity just following rumors. Killing bandits harassing a hamlet cause people to call you a killer. Kill a vampire and people will call you murderer.
How soon do you think we'll be seeing multi-part weapons?
(numbers added)
1. Will we ever be able to customize our adventurer's likes and dislikes like we can their personality?
2. Will we ever get more Legends Mode tabs? Like for music/instruments, maybe?
3. Currently, underground plants are seasonal and aboveground plants can be grown at any time. This makes no sense. Will it ever be fixed/changed?
4. Now that we have dwarves suffocating on their own vomit, will there ever be some kind of dwarven CPR or other advanced medical procedures?
5. Will vampires in worldgen ever drain historical figures?
6. Will there ever be prisoners we can free in dungeons?
7. Will people ever commit crimes in worldgen?
8. Will we ever be able to find stolen children if they're anywhere besides in a dark fortress?
Right now, human villages aren't very interesting when compared to their towns, who now have several different types of buildings. Are there any plans to expand the buildings available to the smaller sites, so that we can perhaps see the occasional small inn, shop, or shrine in them?
Now we have guests arriving to use our Taverns and Libraries, what are the goals for their interactions with other Fortress facilities? I ask because a visitor got into a tavern brawl and broke his arm, but seems to be ignorant that there's a hospital across the corridor.
How long does it usually take for a whole new release (Mac and Linux included) to compile these days?
Are there any plans to expand upon the information given about books, poems, music, etc?
What happens if I tell a stinking tree huger hippie (read elf) citizen to cut down a tree?
What affects the different types of visitors that show up at your fortress? For example, how do you get monster hunters to show up? I've never gotten one with two several year long taverns. Alternatively, is there anything that causes more mercenaries to show up rather than bards and poets? Can you end up attracting more of one scholar type than any others, like have 80% of your scholar guests be doctors?
Might merchant caravans ever occasionally choose to fight when the player tries to seize goods, especially early on?
Will there ever be an Adventurer Mode theme?
When considering the future of legal systems in various towns throughout the world, are you thinking of going for emulation of legislation bodies (including but not limited to the monarchical leader of the site), with change to law occuring over time in preference to the (potential) self interest or pressures from citizenry, OR are you considering keeping abstract and flatly inline with the site's local's and beliefs?
How do worldgen vampire purges work? Do they just vanish, courtesy of an unknown act of the gods, or are there actual events involving vampire hunters/peasant mobs and such?
what compiler will you be using for the eventual 64bit DF?
When might the master/apprentice system enter fort mode and a skill system overhaul so that some dwarfs can only get so far in a skill and the speed a which they progress a bit like how attributes are limited?
Would this also mean dwarfs would need to learn how to craft certain items either from their master or reading it from a book/scroll, thinking that scholars would be able to study weapons and other objects and come up with a detailed design of it then that could be given to another dwarf to try and then think of a way to craft it.
Would giant elephants be large enough to qualify to be multi tile? (vertically above one layer but structurally the same) and would any of the multi-tile animals/creatures/mega-beasts/other relate to what your dwarves at ground level can reach? (unable to sever very much other than the legs of a bronze colossus for instance, without crippling it or gaining elevation?) or would it work normally?
How are Kobold names generated?
Any plans regarding whether that delicious brain-rotting venom will stay as the way it is?
Do undead created by evil weather effects exhibit the same changes to undead that were in the devlog?
So a normal human zombie will die if you cut it's head off, at which point it can be re-re-animated, then die if you cut an arm/hand off, can get re-re-re-animated, and then be permanently dead once you chop off the other arm?
Can we still found armed and armored zombies in sieges or towers?
Hey Toady, cool game, I'm a big fan. I read in the dev overview that the ability to pass long periods of time in adventure mode is a work in progress. How's that coming along? It would be fascinating to enact a "2nd world gen" to see the consequences of player actions over significant periods of time.
Do kids play with imaginary friends now? Do said imaginary friends not show up on the relationships screen? Because there's a kid playing with "Orshetdanman", and I can't find any "Orshetdanman" in the fortress.
I'm currently in the practice of obsidian casting, and I know damned well that a fair number of the floors and walls I'm casting in aren't magma-safe, but they hold anyways. One day, you're going to have to fix the system so that walls and floors made out of non-magma safe materials won't hold magma, but in turn perhaps you should make it easier to construct a magma-proof room. For instance, when I order that stone blocks be made I could order that they be made of magma-safe stones.And when I go to build floors or walls, there could be a handy option to restrict myself to magma-safe materials. What are you going to do to these ends?
As it is, coins are worthless outside their country. Will there ever be money-changers, maybe when there's an economy update?
I never seem to get to any new music, so I wouldn't anticipate anything.Calling all musicians...
A bit of investigation shows it was in fact an artifact toy. Nevertheless, imaginary friends sounds like a cool thing to implement.Quote from: cochramdDo kids play with imaginary friends now? Do said imaginary friends not show up on the relationships screen? Because there's a kid playing with "Orshetdanman", and I can't find any "Orshetdanman" in the fortress.
I'm not sure what that is... That seems too long to be an instrument name, but I think Button's suggestion of an artifact toy is good. The make believe activity doesn't specify anything yet.
QuoteQuote from: Max^TMToady... you monster... you fixed the sapient corpse butchering/eating/wearing.
I'm sure I'll end up figuring out a workaround before this gets answered, but was this a deliberate change or a side effect of something else, and is it just one tag or am I going to have to hunt down several to "unfix" the "fix" there?Quote from: Random_DragonAre you going to revert the "no using materials from butchering sentients" adventurer rule, or at least make it ethics-dependant? If you DO make it depend on ethics, could outsiders be free to commit cannibalism?
I don't recall changing anything in particular. I don't quite understand where the exact barrier is occurring. I don't recall a wear-based restriction message in adv mode.
Quote from: ButtonToady, I've yet to get any titan/megabeast-worshipping historical figures as immigrants, despite targeting my worldgens towards creating them. Did you disallow them from immigration, or have I just been unlucky?
Also, did you take titan/megabeast worshippers into consideration when implementing the worship need & who you can build temples for?
I didn't do anything in particular with them, so they should show up like anybody else. I'm not sure how frequently it happens in world gen now though. I think you can target your temple toward any worshipped figure in the fort, unless it is busted.
It made a tad more sense when there was no aboveground farming and there was seasonal flooding of the underground, maybe, but yeah, it's kind of strange now. Not sure when we'll get to the nuts and bolts of aboveground farming, since there's a lot to do in all of the various modes and it won't matter until they actually use those things post w.g..
Quote from: NopenopeDo you have plans for demonic fortresses (aka curious underground stuctures) to come back in any way, shape or form? Or were they supposed to be replaced by vaults?
I expect the myth generator stuff will cause a seismic event of sorts as regards all of the different things like that. I'm not sure what we'll have after that.
Orshet Dan Man?Orshetdanman, The Cremated Heaviness, an artifact beak dog bone puzzlebox. Yeah, I don't get it either.
QuoteI never seem to get to any new music, so I wouldn't anticipate anything.Calling all musicians...
Something I just found out: Oftentimes, there will be merchants from several different civs in a shop. Just trade through the one from the civ your coins are from.Quote from: TheFlame52As it is, coins are worthless outside their country. Will there ever be money-changers, maybe when there's an economy update?
Yeah, sometime around then. We'll probably do something small just to make it a little less confusing first. They aren't supposed to be completely worthless now as goods, and you could sell them for some amount of local coins, but that might be broken or have a way-too-unfavorable exchange rate.
Side note: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html seems to be missing some of the latest updates - a lot of the stuff that was added in 0.42.01 is still marked as "partially done" even though the descriptions match what I've seen ingame.As far as I can see, none of the "partially done items" in the Tavern section are fully done, with maybe one exception -
* Food and drink service for the player and others - There are only drink services.
* Food and drink service for the player and others - There are only drink services.
Though technically you can fill a mug with food and NPCs will "drink" it.
Or fill it with live animals/people via cage manipulation.
So uhh guys with the security leak... Is the newest game safe for download?
So uhh guys with the security leak... Is the newest game safe for download?
Not a troll
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=154663.0
Weird. Flying DIce said in that post something about people "who have had a hate-on for B12/Toady in the past".This is the internet. If there's more than five people liking something, there's a sixth who hates it so much that they swear they will not rest until it's gone and dead.
Are there people who actively hate him? But why?
Completely irrelevant to the above, but can giant animal variants be tamed by NPC civs? I ask only because if they can be, certain awesome LotR scenes can be recreated, and giant war elephants can only be amazing regardless.
Completely irrelevant to the above, but can giant animal variants be tamed by NPC civs? I ask only because if they can be, certain awesome LotR scenes can be recreated, and giant war elephants can only be amazing regardless.
It depends upon what the raws say, the I think that elves can tame giant animals but nobody else can other than the player as they have [PET_EXOTIC] in the raws rather than [PET].
The thing about coins in the olden days is that you could just weigh them to see what they were worth. This seems to suggest that there will be fiat currency. Can anyone confirm it?Quote from: TheFlame52As it is, coins are worthless outside their country. Will there ever be money-changers, maybe when there's an economy update?
Yeah, sometime around then. We'll probably do something small just to make it a little less confusing first. They aren't supposed to be completely worthless now as goods, and you could sell them for some amount of local coins, but that might be broken or have a way-too-unfavorable exchange rate.
Does the number of goblins killed in a siege effect global goblin population? I very much like the idea of driving goblins to extinction just from the bodycount built by surviving sieges. However, I've noticed that goblins seem to retreat after half their number has been felled, so I'm torn between designing my trapline for maximum dead goblins and designing my trapline for killing goblins as quickly as possible, as it seems I cannot optimize for bothUse a more complicated trap, one that lures the goblins in and makes them walk out through a hall of terrifying spikes.
Nyeh. I'm already 15 years and thousands of traps into this fortress, it's kind of late for such a project. Besides, I've already thought up 2 complex traps like that which would kill entire sieges and I've concluded that they would take way longer than any conventional trapline.Does the number of goblins killed in a siege effect global goblin population? I very much like the idea of driving goblins to extinction just from the bodycount built by surviving sieges. However, I've noticed that goblins seem to retreat after half their number has been felled, so I'm torn between designing my trapline for maximum dead goblins and designing my trapline for killing goblins as quickly as possible, as it seems I cannot optimize for bothUse a more complicated trap, one that lures the goblins in and makes them walk out through a hall of terrifying spikes.
Quote from: RobsoieWhile 34.11 and previous versions "spawned" sieges had often gob weapon masters, this does not happen in either df2014 or 42.x with the new "marching armies" of those versions and all the goblin sieges through the years i faced in any of my forts are always made of low skilled gob soldiers or recruits.
And considering they take 2/3 years to decide to come to your fortress in 42.01, it's important to note that the current dwarven military training can easily deliver a couple of legendary dwarves in only a couple of years by simply them sparring, transforming those gob sieges that were supposed to be threat a simple walk in the park when a single legendary dwarf can kill a dozen of those invading gobs by himself in no time.
So do you have plans to have gobs training their military skills in their dark sites the same as dwarves does in your fortress to get sieges challenging again ?
I've made note of it.
I was thinking of doing it with magma to be thorough, but how on earth do you clear that out in time for the caravans? Too much work, I tell you.If the corridor you pump the magma into has drawbridges for a floor you can retract them and drop the magma bellow very quickly. If you drop it onto a grate over a deeper pit you can even catch the magma safe equipment.
So after... accidentally discovering you can use some dfhackery to put someone in a mug and hand it to them and then they drink a hole in the universe and vanish, I tried the same trick with myself and was able to successfully get myself into a mug and hand it to someone.
As the game goes "ha ha, nope" and crashes when an NPC drinks a cage which contains you, I never actually got to check and see if there were any Toadyism's included like the "there is no sunlight when you are dead" stuff. Is there a specific message if someone drinks you? I assume the usual "You have died in a cage." would pop up, but am naturally curious if there may be more.
Quote from: Japawhat compiler will you be using for the eventual 64bit DF?
Right now the plan is to use the MSVC that people suggested for Windows (2013 community, or whatever), and the test program worked with that. I have no idea what the linux/mac configurations are or how it would work there.
What makes an army conquer or destroy as opposed to pillaging? It's not site type.
Toady, what are the current plans for boats? I'd love to adventure to fareaway land or make a fortress on an island that isn't completely disconnected from the rest of the world. Though I understand this implies making harbors and a loooooot of related stuff.Toady's plan appears to be start with a harbor building/zone/whatever that teleports to other harbors, maybe with a wagon-like boat, but it wouldn't actually move on screen. Moving boats will wait for the framework that underlies moving siege engines, sliding walls, etc.
Toady, what are the current plans for boats? I'd love to adventure to fareaway land or make a fortress on an island that isn't completely disconnected from the rest of the world. Though I understand this implies making harbors and a loooooot of related stuff.check adventurer role:explorer (http://bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html)
In the forseeable future will you do for food what has been done with music/dance/poetry? I'd really like to see legendary chefs execute extremely complicated signature dishes, and I'd like more complex food preparation reactions to be possible: meat preservation, fattening animals, etc.I would go more in the book direction (generated titles) than the instrument direction (generated words). If everything in the fort has generated words, logs are going to start reading like Dr. Seuss stories.
In the forseeable future will you do for food what has been done with music/dance/poetry? I'd really like to see legendary chefs execute extremely complicated signature dishes, and I'd like more complex food preparation reactions to be possible: meat preservation, fattening animals, etc.Part of that was going to happen during the tavern section, especially the recipes and signature dishes, but since the first release took so long and the remainder would benefit from the economy, that has been postponed for now, and it's unlikely that they're part of the foreseeable future (that being mythology/artifacts and starting scenarios/law/status). After that, maybe it'll be revisited.
Adventure mode related: don't know if this was addressed already, couldn't comb over the whole thread, but, are we gonna see personalized (and customizable in the "speech" folder) speech patterns for different races? It's kind of a strange dissonance right now that goblins and hostile bandits/criminals are as polite as any friendly race/group. Same goes for similar always-hostile modded civ. You'd think they'd "greet" you with insults and angrily tell you to "Go away!" as a "goodbye", and so on and so forth for the trade window and other talk options.
On a similar note, will we see customizable embark messages for modding purposes?
When do you think locking this thread up and starting a new one for the new release?
Why would he? He hasnt before.
I'm going to leave this thread open for a while and start up a new one once we have the next path forward up on the dev pages. We'll do some bug-fix releases before we get around to that.
Adventure mode related: don't know if this was addressed already, couldn't comb over the whole thread, but, are we gonna see personalized (and customizable in the "speech" folder) speech patterns for different races? It's kind of a strange dissonance right now that goblins and hostile bandits/criminals are as polite as any friendly race/group. Same goes for similar always-hostile modded civ. You'd think they'd "greet" you with insults and angrily tell you to "Go away!" as a "goodbye", and so on and so forth for the trade window and other talk options.You mean, other than what the [LISP] tag already does.
On a similar note, will we see customizable embark messages for modding purposes?You're gonna have to ask Meph (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=61165) about that one. His DF Masterwork contains customized messages.
Adventure mode related: don't know if this was addressed already, couldn't comb over the whole thread, but, are we gonna see personalized (and customizable in the "speech" folder) speech patterns for different races? It's kind of a strange dissonance right now that goblins and hostile bandits/criminals are as polite as any friendly race/group. Same goes for similar always-hostile modded civ. You'd think they'd "greet" you with insults and angrily tell you to "Go away!" as a "goodbye", and so on and so forth for the trade window and other talk options.You mean, other than what the [LISP] tag already does.QuoteOn a similar note, will we see customizable embark messages for modding purposes?You're gonna have to ask Meph (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=61165) about that one. His DF Masterwork contains customized messages.
Am I the only one hyped at the idea of a zombie nerf? ;w;Not at all. I'm hyped as well. I claimed for something along those lines from a long time now.
Anyway, that's done by uncompressing the embark message file, editing it and recompressing. I'm actually not 100% sure why it's compressed.How do I decompress that file?
There's a weird text file (WTF) decompressor around... and another on in perl. I can only remember the name of the WTF one, though. (It's something with WTF, just look up WTF weird text file dwarf fortress and you'll get it).Found it (http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=4175).
Every dwarves in every fortresses are completely hyped for this change too .Am I the only one hyped at the idea of a zombie nerf? ;w;Not at all. I'm hyped as well. I claimed for something along those lines from a long time now.
You mean, other than what the [LISP] tag already does.Erm, that merely extends the s's in speech, it doesn't change what they actually say.
Does the personality of a leader determine the nation's foreign policy during worldgen? I've seen evidence to support it.Toady mentioned in df talk way back that the personallity effects how often they go to war, however with the new personality stuff from 40.xx there might be more, so short answer yes definitely effects some things, long answer (awaiting toady)
Quote from: RobsoieWhile 34.11 and previous versions "spawned" sieges had often gob weapon masters, this does not happen in either df2014 or 42.x with the new "marching armies" of those versions and all the goblin sieges through the years i faced in any of my forts are always made of low skilled gob soldiers or recruits.
And considering they take 2/3 years to decide to come to your fortress in 42.01, it's important to note that the current dwarven military training can easily deliver a couple of legendary dwarves in only a couple of years by simply them sparring, transforming those gob sieges that were supposed to be threat a simple walk in the park when a single legendary dwarf can kill a dozen of those invading gobs by himself in no time.
So do you have plans to have gobs training their military skills in their dark sites the same as dwarves does in your fortress to get sieges challenging again ?
I've made note of it.
Armies can still have members with very high skills in 42.04.
In 1053 a marching army that just vistied Savotasob consisted of a lot of low-skilled goblins. some skilled marks-goblins and a single legendary goblin axeman, Sasir Gislaemoth.
My not-so legendary skilled marksdwarf and hammerdwarf squads easily dispatched the low skilled and marks-gobblins plus their trolls.
Sasir ate through all 20 warriors with ease: mostly through head-removing ax chops. Two taverns containing a combined 36 visiting solders then proceeded to get pasted to the fort walls.
Will siege armies ever have different goals?
That is, can they ever capture spoil such as taking animals in cages off of piles or in pastures to drag them off the map?
Right now there is only one kind of siege: kill everything that moves. There are already normal fort thieves and several kinds of thieving wildlife. There are a few thieve related goals on the dev page.
Having to keep an army from stealing you blind on top of butchering your citizens seems very medieval. Forts also would have to be very careful about leaving stuff outside the gates. Having a depot destroyed is inconvenient. Having everything that was stuck on it hauled off too (by something other than a random kea or buzzard) means rethinking some fort designs.
He also mentioned recently that vampire rulers currently impose harsh laws in worldgen, so that might also effect foreign policy.Does the personality of a leader determine the nation's foreign policy during worldgen? I've seen evidence to support it.Toady mentioned in df talk way back that the personallity effects how often they go to war, however with the new personality stuff from 40.xx there might be more, so short answer yes definitely effects some things, long answer (awaiting toady)
I believe this almost same exact question was asked and answered in a df talk way back, dont remember which one.
he mentioned elf ambushes currently having the goal to "shoot a certain amount of arows and leave" and kidnappers and such.
so i guess yes.
Yeah. It's sad right now, of course. The goals depend on the critters. The humans goal is just to kill everybody. The goblins, when they send a large invasion, their goal is just to kill everybody. The elves are there to shoot a certain number of arrows or until their group gets spotted prematurely; they aren't trying to kill everybody, but they're just trying to mess with you. And if snatchers or item thieves come, which is another kind of invasion, they're just trying to make it out, and their escorts if they have any work like the elves, they just try and bother you a little bit and distract you. But that's about it;
You mean, other than what the [LISP] tag already does.Erm, that merely extends the s's in speech, it doesn't change what they actually say.
What I mean is more like...tokens in, for instance, the Goblin raw files pointing to text files in the speech folder that each contain different types of greetings for them, depending if they're hostile or not. Similar to how the race-specific "brag about kill" messages are currently used for dwarves and elves, or how Minotaurs use the lair_hunter_minotaur.txt file; different greetings/goodbyes could be specified for different races.
I.e if a goblin is an enemy of your civ but is currently non-hostile they'd be rude and greet you with, for example, "What do you want, *race*?" or "Keep it quick, I have more important things to do." and on "goodbye" would say something like "Now leave!" or "Begone!" - different types of greetings based on civ relations. Right now greetings are the same for each race (which, as I said, creates a dissonance when hostile races such as goblins are really polite as they're trying to kill you; greetings can be edited but that applies to everything currently).
This being part of the speech folder would make it more modable and customizable for individual races, which would be a great way for mods to add more flavor.
As for the embark message, I haven't played Masterwork but myself I'd rather not mess around with compressed files.
Also I don't mean just removing the "Strike the earth" and mentions of a "Mountainhome" to make it neutral; again, a token could be added for modding purposes to point to a different embark message. The dwarf one is the default, and alternates could be specified in the entity files.
Thanks for finding that ;)I believe this almost same exact question was asked and answered in a df talk way back, dont remember which one.
he mentioned elf ambushes currently having the goal to "shoot a certain amount of arows and leave" and kidnappers and such.
so i guess yes.
Relatively early on in number 2:Quote from: ToadyYeah. It's sad right now, of course. The goals depend on the critters. The humans goal is just to kill everybody. The goblins, when they send a large invasion, their goal is just to kill everybody. The elves are there to shoot a certain number of arrows or until their group gets spotted prematurely; they aren't trying to kill everybody, but they're just trying to mess with you. And if snatchers or item thieves come, which is another kind of invasion, they're just trying to make it out, and their escorts if they have any work like the elves, they just try and bother you a little bit and distract you. But that's about it;
(usually do it when I change the dev page, so when I post the revised myth/artifact/magic stuff, it'll probably be locked and remade)
not really, probably gonna happen before the end of the yearHe says, at the beginning of the year.
I expect that this kind of thing will come up if Toady decides to embark on a language re-write. I know that topic gets floated about a bit, but no idea if it's an official thing he'd like to do at some point in the far-flung future. Seems like it'd be pretty huge task, conlangs are pretty dense if you want to go the whole hog with them.This (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=147824.msg5978189) is the most recent fan attempt of which I am aware. Toady could go in a completely different direction with the language, but it also important to remember that picking in-game conversation is not at all the same thing as devising a language. DF already has a much more organic conversation system than most other games, it's just that the world is so rich in detail that it pushes the boundaries of what the conversation engine can handle.
That'd be pretty amusing, actually. Dwarf jokes are already something that'd be pretty amusing to think of, but myself I'd especially like to see bad goblin comedians, and goblin jokes in general. "Why did the chicken cross the road? Who cares, halfway across the road, it fell over and choked and died. Haha."I expect that this kind of thing will come up if Toady decides to embark on a language re-write. I know that topic gets floated about a bit, but no idea if it's an official thing he'd like to do at some point in the far-flung future. Seems like it'd be pretty huge task, conlangs are pretty dense if you want to go the whole hog with them.This (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=147824.msg5978189) is the most recent fan attempt of which I am aware. Toady could go in a completely different direction with the language, but it also important to remember that picking in-game conversation is not at all the same thing as devising a language. DF already has a much more organic conversation system than most other games, it's just that the world is so rich in detail that it pushes the boundaries of what the conversation engine can handle.
Would be nice to see someone who's bad at humor, though, even if we only get a description of the awfulness. "Urist's joke falls flat because the pun does not translate." or "Everyone nearby falls silent when Urist uses a light tone inappropriate to the situation."
like other planes (dreamworld, expanded underworld, afterlife (see below)) be considered for inclusion?
So you come back with your adventurer as a ghost. Silent Hillock...
Urist Towercared, cheesemaker: Lately, I am unsatisfied at the weather.So you come back with your adventurer as a ghost. Silent Hillock...
I assume that DF's version of Pyramid Head would be a blind cave ogre wearing a minecart on his head?
Earlier I was looking at this (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/story/tt_journey.html) old Threetoe story and was wondering, what with the upcoming magic and artifact arc, will things like other planes (dreamworld, expanded underworld, afterlife (see below)) be considered for inclusion? In addition, will an afterlife (beyond the ghost features, more in the sense of a physical place or something) be considered for both adventurers, possibly giving them a second chance or at least something to do after being killed, and for fortress mode, expanding the ghost mechanic, perhaps allowing things like channelling, interaction with the dead via mediums or dreams, etc?It's very unlikely that the artifact releases will include fully functional planes. Toady has likened them to the z-level update, and I don't recall him saying that they'll happen. It seems more plausible to me that, if planes are part of the myth generator (which they should, but not necessarily from the start), that the planes will simply be named and described.
Apologies if this stuff was mentioned a long time ago. I haven't always been up to date with future plans.
That'd be pretty amusing, actually. Dwarf jokes are already something that'd be pretty amusing to think of, but myself I'd especially like to see bad goblin comedians, and goblin jokes in general. "Why did the chicken cross the road? Who cares, halfway across the road, it fell over and choked and died. Haha.""Why did the fluffy wambler cross the road? It was inevitable. Haha."
"...and then it was decreed that the punchline of every joke told by every dwarf will be 'sock.'"That'd be pretty amusing, actually. Dwarf jokes are already something that'd be pretty amusing to think of, but myself I'd especially like to see bad goblin comedians, and goblin jokes in general. "Why did the chicken cross the road? Who cares, halfway across the road, it fell over and choked and died. Haha.""Why did the fluffy wambler cross the road? It was inevitable. Haha."
This conversation seems to be veering in the direction of the Suggestions forum.
You could almost say it was inevitable.This conversation seems to be veering in the direction of the Suggestions forum.
It always does but that is the nature of things.
Please forgive me for my insolence as I'm sure this has been asked a million times, but I wasn't able to find the answer.
Will adventure mode ever allow for persistent constructions and modification of terrain, and other fortress mode things like crafting furniture, using workshops, etc.? Kind of like the advfort mod, but officially supported and therefore without the limitations.
Yes, at some point. It's in the plans somewhere and I'm pretty sure it was discussed on DF talk.
If I make a goblin adventurer and retire it at a goblin site, can it show up in a siege?Adventurer goblins aren't from goblin civs. You almost certainly don't have the option to retire at a dark pits, just as you can't retire dwarf, human or elf adventurers there.
--better question would be, can human or elf civ adventurers turn up in sieges? That would be Fun. Populate the nearby forest retreat with elephant man demi-gods then start a fortress mass-producing wood crafts for elf merchants.
Are there any long term plans to support multi threading in dwarf fortress, or any other measures to share computational load between cores and/or the GPU. It seems to me that FPS death is probably the biggest obstacle to long-term enjoyment.
Being able to load more than 2 GB and have it accessible from speedy ram shouldn't be slower than shuffling 2 GB of data back and forth from the hard drive is.AFAIK, DF doesn't use the file system to shuffle things back and forth, except when saving and loading. So no gain there.
Maybe not in fortress mode, but adventure mode you can definitely see the difference when you are roaming around on foot and you cross into an empty hunk of desert vs a chunk of densely populated town with an insurrection taking place. If that was all sitting in ram already it wouldn't take as long, and indeed it wouldn't have the same pause at each new embark tile where the game pulls it up and unloads the tiles which are totally out of sight.Being able to load more than 2 GB and have it accessible from speedy ram shouldn't be slower than shuffling 2 GB of data back and forth from the hard drive is.AFAIK, DF doesn't use the file system to shuffle things back and forth, except when saving and loading. So no gain there.
It really is a trade off between larger embarks on 64 bit and a slight performance advantage on 32 bit.
I don't play adventure mode, so I don't have any first hand knowledge of it. However, if DF loads and offloads tiles in adventure mode it would do that regardless of whether the code is compiled as 32 or 64 bit. Using 64 bit would make it possible to change the DF code to load everything into (virtual) memory instead however, resulting in a longer initial load time but avoiding the program loading/offloading data to/from the disk during the game. If the physical memory is insufficient (including the OS deciding DF shouldn't get more), you'd still get page fault loading/offloading as the OS swaps memory to/from disk during play.Pre-fetching can be done more intelligently than you're suggesting, and virtual memory is somewhat faster than file I/O. If the physical RAM is available you'll see an orders-of-magnitude improvement.
Just to clarify: I think a move to 64 bits is a correct one and needed eventually regardless. However, it's just an enabler that doesn't achieve anything beyond larger embarks (that are faster to die the FPS death) on its own; additional work is needed to use the potential provided.
What with the possibility of 64-bit, and we've already got SDL and legacy versions, I be curious:Separate downloads, in all likelihood.
Will we get a boatload of different versions, or a 'catch-all' download that figures out what we need?
It's not like the DF zip is huge or anything :)
Quote from: PidgeotHave you decided how you will distribute the 64-bit builds (once they're ready)? Will it be a single ZIP per OS, containing both 32 and 64-bit executables, or one ZIP for OS/bitness combination?
I'll probably have a bunch of separate zips, but the list is getting long the way it is formatted now. But that's the way I'm leaning. We'll also enter a sort of annoying save compat territory -- even if I manage compat between the bitnesses, 64-bit saves will often be too large for 32 bit DF to load. I imagine there could be "false" bug reports over this, but I'm not sure how to handle it without spending a zillion years coding calculations estimating memory sizes before load or something.
Separate downloads, in all likelihood.I think it would be easier for the saving client to write something in the file about how much memory was needed (or predicted to be needed) to handle that save.Quote from: PidgeotHave you decided how you will distribute the 64-bit builds (once they're ready)? Will it be a single ZIP per OS, containing both 32 and 64-bit executables, or one ZIP for OS/bitness combination?
I'll probably have a bunch of separate zips, but the list is getting long the way it is formatted now. But that's the way I'm leaning. We'll also enter a sort of annoying save compat territory -- even if I manage compat between the bitnesses, 64-bit saves will often be too large for 32 bit DF to load. I imagine there could be "false" bug reports over this, but I'm not sure how to handle it without spending a zillion years coding calculations estimating memory sizes before load or something.
What skill governs the construction of any given assembled instrument? I don't want to waste a lot of parts on instruments that aren't assembled well. I'm training one exceptional craftsdwarf (designated as the instrumentcrafter) in every skill that could possibly assemble instruments in my opinion: bonecarver, carpenter, clothier, glassmaker, leatherworker, masonry, potter, stonecrafter, weaver and woodcrafter, just to be safe.
It's going okay so far. There's a more specific reputation for defending settlements from outlaws, and new hearth orders for fighting off outlaws, clearing out bandit camps and fighting nearby beasts.
You recently added more hearth orders so I was wondering about this: Currently you can join a bandit gang (and even necromancer groups) in adventure mode as a lieutenant but they never seem to tell you to do anything, will you be making bandit leaders give players orders to harass nearby villages and, will players ever be able to establish their own bandit gangs?
You recently added more hearth orders so I was wondering about this: Currently you can join a bandit gang (and even necromancer groups) in adventure mode as a lieutenant but they never seem to tell you to do anything, will you be making bandit leaders give players orders to harass nearby villages and, will players ever be able to establish their own bandit gangs?
Toady spoke about the concept behind agreements in DF Talk (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/df_talk.html) #21 when they were covering the "new" - for that time - conversation system. It starts around the 33 minute mark or you could read the transcript here (http://www.bay12games.com/media/df_talk_21_transcript.html).
Just search for "hats district!"
Although a part of what you are asking could be covered by the thief role framework, the idea behind agreements covers a multitude of possibilities beyond what you're asking much like the framework for the military training in 31.xx lead to seemingly unrelated activities like dancing, worshiping, children playing, etc in 42.xx.
Assembling instruments is made in the craftdwarf's workshop, which uses a whole bunch of different skills depending on what you make and the material(s) used, so cochramd's question is quite relevant. I suspect the answer is whatever skill was used to create the instrument body, based on some vague recollection of that having been stated/suggested. A definite answer would be useful, though.I did some !SCIENCE! on the matter and updated the wiki; just check the bottom of the page on instruments.
I think it'll mostly be kept to vague or indirect preferences, as we're not modeling sex to a highly specific degree anyway. As it is, copulation is literally just two units bumping into each other once or twice, and that's probably as specific as it'll get.Assembling instruments is made in the craftdwarf's workshop, which uses a whole bunch of different skills depending on what you make and the material(s) used, so cochramd's question is quite relevant. I suspect the answer is whatever skill was used to create the instrument body, based on some vague recollection of that having been stated/suggested. A definite answer would be useful, though.I did some !SCIENCE! on the matter and updated the wiki; just check the bottom of the page on instruments.
Yesterday I found myself pondering the following question: Will randomly generated sexual fetishes ever be incorporated into DF? I then immediately realized that this was not something I wished to continue pondering and applied the brakes to that train of thought. Somewhere between applying the brakes and sending that train of thought into reverse, I realized that I could joke about BDSM being a hard fetish to appease in DF because while we can make chains and oil, whips are not a native weapon......and are absolutely fucking lethal because they're made out of metal and not leather.
I think it'll mostly be kept to vague or indirect preferences, as we're not modeling sex to a highly specific degree anyway. As it is, copulation is literally just two units bumping into each other once or twice, and that's probably as specific as it'll get.But dwarves don't even have the BP_BUMP interaction...
I think it'll mostly be kept to vague or indirect preferences, as we're not modeling sex to a highly specific degree anyway. As it is, copulation is literally just two units bumping into each other once or twice, and that's probably as specific as it'll get.But dwarves don't even have the BP_BUMP interaction...
Assembling instruments is made in the craftdwarf's workshop, which uses a whole bunch of different skills depending on what you make and the material(s) used, so cochramd's question is quite relevant. I suspect the answer is whatever skill was used to create the instrument body, based on some vague recollection of that having been stated/suggested. A definite answer would be useful, though.I did some !SCIENCE! on the matter and updated the wiki; just check the bottom of the page on instruments.
:
:
For that matter, Do you have any plans to make races other than dwarves playable?That's on the development page (including goblins and organizing raiding parties and such).
Oh, did I miss that? I better go fix it.Assembling instruments is made in the craftdwarf's workshop, which uses a whole bunch of different skills depending on what you make and the material(s) used, so cochramd's question is quite relevant. I suspect the answer is whatever skill was used to create the instrument body, based on some vague recollection of that having been stated/suggested. A definite answer would be useful, though.I did some !SCIENCE! on the matter and updated the wiki; just check the bottom of the page on instruments.
:
:
Thanks for the reference! Just to show that I've looked at it I can pick a nit: Leatherworking seems to be a possible assembly craft as well, and should probably be added to the footnote.
In DF, scrolling a mouse's scroll wheel forward zooms the map out, and scrolling it backwards zooms it in. This is the opposite of most applications- why is this, and are there any plans to change it?The default is odd, but those are keybinds for "button 4" and "button 5" that you can change if you like.
First thing I change with every new install. Since no-one ever remarked that it was strange I had assumed my mouse was the problem...In DF, scrolling a mouse's scroll wheel forward zooms the map out, and scrolling it backwards zooms it in. This is the opposite of most applications- why is this, and are there any plans to change it?The default is odd, but those are keybinds for "button 4" and "button 5" that you can change if you like.
Now that 42.05 is a thing, are giant desert scorpions back yet?Doesn't look like it.
Probably not near future, though I imagine there's some small chance to get something out into the raws during the myth generation. But over time, more and more hardcoded elements should find their way into the raws, since that's an explicit goal (Including the randomized critters and thus the demons).
1) At present, while the raws encompass a great deal, a number of elements remain either hardcoded (e.g. randomized creatures and Vanilla workshops) or placed elsewhere (e.g. boasts). Might we see any of these (with the obvious exception of clowns) moved to the raws in the near future?
@Urlance Woolsbane:I should clarify: I was referring to the number of curse interactions and corresponding werebeast-types in the .DAT file, not the werecreature populations. Deities shouldn't come into it.
2) I'd retry the world generation a number of times before trying to draw conclusions. Firstly, (pseudo)random chances being what they are, with a large enough set you'll get outliers. Also, I suspect some deities are more curse prone than others, and it wouldn't be strange if these deities had were curse preferences. Thus, I'd not just count the raw number of weres of each type, but also who cursed them into what. Multiple worlds would generate multiple sets of gods to offend.
Any chances Workshops could get to use Wheelbarrows for picking up items?There's a blurry line between development questions and game suggestions, but this has veered pretty cleanly onto the suggestion side. Toady does read at least the first couple posts of each suggestion thread.
2) And speaking of randomized creatures, I did a little test recently: I genned a world with 1000 types of werebeasts, and searched the uncompressed save with a hex-editor. I found that werereptile-curses are considerably more common (28 was the least amount I saw for a given animal, and it seemed common for them to be in the 40's) than weremammal or weremarsupial-ones (both of which seem to have between 8 and 15 of a given animal). And that's not counting werelizard-curses, which are in a league of their own with a whopping 138 instances. What gives?
New stuff:)
(*) A few lizards
Actually, I did mean 42.05, though I doubt the presence of a few new lizard-species has anything to do with this. Certainly, werelizards were already absurdly common in the Arena, in prior versions.2) And speaking of randomized creatures, I did a little test recently: I genned a world with 1000 types of werebeasts, and searched the uncompressed save with a hex-editor. I found that werereptile-curses are considerably more common (28 was the least amount I saw for a given animal, and it seemed common for them to be in the 40's) than weremammal or weremarsupial-ones (both of which seem to have between 8 and 15 of a given animal). And that's not counting werelizard-curses, which are in a league of their own with a whopping 138 instances. What gives?New stuff:)
(*) A few lizards
(I suspect by recently you didn't mean 42.05, though.)
[OBJECT:VARIATION]
[VARIATION:PLANT:SPROUTING]
[REMOVE_TAG:NAME]
[REMOVE_TAG:NAME_PLURAL]
[REMOVE_TAG:ADJ]
[CONVERT_TAG]
[MASTER:GROWDUR]
[TARGET:300]
[REPLACEMENT:60]
[CONVERT_TAG]
[MASTER:GROWDUR]
[TARGET:500]
[REPLACEMENT:100]
[CONVERT_TAG]
[MASTER:CLUSTERSIZE]
[TARGET:5]
[REPLACEMENT:1]
This could be used as:[PLANT:SPROUTING_MUSHROOM_HELMET_PLUMP]
[COPY_TAGS_FROM:PLANT:MUSHROOM_HELMET_PLUMP]
[APPLY_VARIATION:PLANT:SPROUTING]
[REMOVE_TAG:SEED]
[APPLY_CURRENT_VARIATION]
[GO_TO_END]
[SELECT_NESTED:ALL]
[GO_TO_START]
[SEED:plump helmet sproutings spawn:plump helmet sproutings spawn:4:0:1:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
[ALL_NAMES:plump helmet sproutings]
Procedural generation in Dwarf Fortress (DF) and modding possibilities are both leading in their respective categories, this makes DF deep and immersive.
We should have generic variations for each one of the DF objects (Ammo, Armor, Building, Body, Body_detail_plan, Bodygloss, Creature, Variation, Entity, Item, Interaction, Language, Material, Plant, Position, Syndrome, Tissue, Tool, Trap, Unit, Weapon, World, ...)
Why? better reuse of prototypes in modding, and almost all the necessary code is already there because nothing in the contextual lexical substitutions done by the variations is specifically and inherently vinculated to the creature prototypes.
If we are going this way, a syntax modification for the variations to indicate the kind of object that is being variated is also proposed.
Some examples of what we could do:Code: [Select][OBJECT:VARIATION]
This could be used as:
[VARIATION:PLANT:SPROUTING]
[REMOVE_TAG:NAME]
[REMOVE_TAG:NAME_PLURAL]
[REMOVE_TAG:ADJ]
[CONVERT_TAG]
[MASTER:GROWDUR]
[TARGET:300]
[REPLACEMENT:60]
[CONVERT_TAG]
[MASTER:GROWDUR]
[TARGET:500]
[REPLACEMENT:100]
[CONVERT_TAG]
[MASTER:CLUSTERSIZE]
[TARGET:5]
[REPLACEMENT:1]Code: [Select][PLANT:SPROUTING_MUSHROOM_HELMET_PLUMP]
[COPY_TAGS_FROM:PLANT:MUSHROOM_HELMET_PLUMP]
[APPLY_VARIATION:PLANT:SPROUTING]
[REMOVE_TAG:SEED]
[APPLY_CURRENT_VARIATION]
[GO_TO_END]
[SELECT_NESTED:ALL]
[GO_TO_START]
[SEED:plump helmet sproutings spawn:plump helmet sproutings spawn:4:0:1:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
[ALL_NAMES:plump helmet sproutings]
Might fit well into this particular corner (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155555.0) of the Suggestions forum.Well my point of view is that the hard work of implementing lexical substitution of tokens has been already done by Toady One, but then, this has been artificially restricted to only work for objects of kind creature, as I do not see why. So, I ask if the proposed evolution (Future of the fortress ;D :P) could land sometime in a distant future...
More of a modification of tokens that already exist than adding new tokens but well...
Might fit well into this particular corner (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155555.0) of the Suggestions forum.Well my point of view is that the hard work of implementing lexical substitution of tokens has been already done by Toady One, but then, this has been artificially restricted to only work for objects of kind creature, as I do not see why. So, I ask if the proposed evolution (Future of the fortress ;D :P) could land sometime in a distant future...
Or maybe, make clear why only the objects of kind creature have been considered for variations.More of a modification of tokens that already exist than adding new tokens but well...
Might fit well into this particular corner (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155555.0) of the Suggestions forum.Well my point of view is that the hard work of implementing lexical substitution of tokens has been already done by Toady One, but then, this has been artificially restricted to only work for objects of kind creature, as I do not see why. So, I ask if the proposed evolution (Future of the fortress ;D :P) could land sometime in a distant future...
Or maybe, make clear why only the objects of kind creature have been considered for variations.More of a modification of tokens that already exist than adding new tokens but well...
Second, are giant desert scorpions officially gone for good, or is the idea of re-adding them them just on hold for the moment?Some kind of giant scorpion is coming, as stated in the file changes file. Just because that didn't happen at the first opportunity doesn't mean it's never going to happen.
Everyone, start praying to Armok that we're getting war-trainable giant blind cave scorpions with venom of equal potency to giant desert scorpions, because I hate to pray to Armok alone.Second, are giant desert scorpions officially gone for good, or is the idea of re-adding them them just on hold for the moment?Some kind of giant scorpion is coming, as stated in the file changes file. Just because that didn't happen at the first opportunity doesn't mean it's never going to happen.
Mind if I swipe that idea?Everyone, start praying to Armok that we're getting war-trainable giant blind cave scorpions with venom of equal potency to giant desert scorpions, because I hate to pray to Armok alone.Second, are giant desert scorpions officially gone for good, or is the idea of re-adding them them just on hold for the moment?Some kind of giant scorpion is coming, as stated in the file changes file. Just because that didn't happen at the first opportunity doesn't mean it's never going to happen.
Microsoft recently added support for using Clang as the compiler front-end for MSVC:Quote from: Japawhat compiler will you be using for the eventual 64bit DF?
Right now the plan is to use the MSVC that people suggested for Windows (2013 community, or whatever), and the test program worked with that. I have no idea what the linux/mac configurations are or how it would work there.
Go right ahead.Mind if I swipe that idea?Everyone, start praying to Armok that we're getting war-trainable giant blind cave scorpions with venom of equal potency to giant desert scorpions, because I hate to pray to Armok alone.Second, are giant desert scorpions officially gone for good, or is the idea of re-adding them them just on hold for the moment?Some kind of giant scorpion is coming, as stated in the file changes file. Just because that didn't happen at the first opportunity doesn't mean it's never going to happen.
Dear Toady, what in Armok's name is a frilly turban and can it fit under a helm? I can't any information on it anywhere, not even in the raws.It's a turban made of HFS fabric, and yes.
What's the reason for removing zombie wrestling? Is it difficulty, or because they were doing weird stuff with it (e.g., joint locks?) The stereotypical zombie, as I've seen them portrayed, congregates in a crowd of grasping arms. The difficulty should already be mitigated by the running and strength nerf.
Not saying they have to be stereotypical zombies, but it's a behavior that makes sense. If zombies are creatures of instinct, then primates are prone to grasping things.
I got mine as an artifact made from cave spider silk actually, but it's a relief to know that it fits snuggly under a helm just like a normal turban to provide just a little extra protection for my militia commander's head. It's a shame, really, that we can't make turbans of our own, or else they'd be part of every soldier's gear. The thing is, though, I cannot for the life of me picture what a "frilly turban" looks like, and Google has failed to help me in such matters. Also, I read on the wiki that such HFS clothing is associated with certain spheres....do we know which spheres are associated with "frilly"?Dear Toady, what in Armok's name is a frilly turban and can it fit under a helm? I can't any information on it anywhere, not even in the raws.It's a turban made of HFS fabric, and yes.
Hi Toady! Probably a stupid question, but...My guess for an animal person would be has.breasts=NOT(lays.eggs)
In your mental representation of those creatures, do Eagle Women have breasts?
What about the platypus? :DI doubt it.
The newly hatched young are vulnerable, blind, and hairless, and are fed by the mother's milk. Although possessing mammary glands, the platypus lacks teats. Instead, milk is released through pores in the skin. The milk pools in grooves on her abdomen, allowing the young to lap it up.
What about the platypus? :DDirst cancels glib answer: world too damned complicated
"mammary glands"It actually makes a difference in this case. The NSFW stuff should have been spoilered though.
I didn't answer this before because I thought somebody else would show up and answer it better, but any items like "frilly turban", "blocky greaves", or "rounded gauntlets" are items generated on an individual world basis for use by angels. It's made out of divine metal cloth, which might be what was meant by HFS fabric, but I've never heard HFS fabric before and to me that sounds more like candy or clown silk. Divine metal is about half as good as adamantine, yet still a good bit above steel, and is also generated for each world with names like shimmering metal or glistening metal. The stats are always the same though. I don't know if it was ever experimented on how they behave in comparison to the item they're named after, which, considering the thread we're in Are the divinely generated armor and weapons identical to the items they're named after? Standard turbans can fit over helms fine though, and I do believe they would be put over helms not under, but the armor layers work either way.Dear Toady, what in Armok's name is a frilly turban and can it fit under a helm? I can't any information on it anywhere, not even in the raws.It's a turban made of HFS fabric, and yes.
As I recall they were the same stats as the vanilla items, but not modded ones.I didn't answer this before because I thought somebody else would show up and answer it better, but any items like "frilly turban", "blocky greaves", or "rounded gauntlets" are items generated on an individual world basis for use by angels. It's made out of divine metal cloth, which might be what was meant by HFS fabric, but I've never heard HFS fabric before and to me that sounds more like candy or clown silk. Divine metal is about half as good as adamantine, yet still a good bit above steel, and is also generated for each world with names like shimmering metal or glistening metal. The stats are always the same though. I don't know if it was ever experimented on how they behave in comparison to the item they're named after, which, considering the thread we're in Are the divinely generated armor and weapons identical to the items they're named after? Standard turbans can fit over helms fine though, and I do believe they would be put over helms not under, but the armor layers work either way.Dear Toady, what in Armok's name is a frilly turban and can it fit under a helm? I can't any information on it anywhere, not even in the raws.It's a turban made of HFS fabric, and yes.
Gremlins are an odd case that's become even more out of place with multi race fortresses. They can appointed as nobles and elected mayors that even make demands, but you can't see their demands [at least in 0.40.24]. You can't make clothes for them, but they now drink booze using cups. They are considered animals and can be butchered, yet they appear to be a lot more intelligent than e.g. trolls, and dance, sing, recite poetry read books, etc. What are the plans regarding them? Will they be moved to the fortress citizen category (e.g. by having tamed gremlins apply for residence and then get moved from the tame animal category, and then have them apply for full citizenship, or possibly fast track them to full citizenship via an automatically generated 'petition' once tamed), or demoted to mere animals? I guess the answer might be tied to how "wild" animal people populations and captives from them are to be treated?Gremlins are an odd creature to have in Dwarf Fortress anyway, since they are a thoroughly modern bit of folklore that emerged in the 1920s. A combination of unreliable aircraft and high altitudes combined to generate some convincing hallucinations of nasty little creatures sabotaging the planes.
Edit: Removed obsolete room statement above.
Edit 2: And corrected version reference...
Gremlins are an odd creature to have in Dwarf Fortress anyway, since they are a thoroughly modern bit of folklore that emerged in the 1920s. A combination of unreliable aircraft and high altitudes combined to generate some convincing hallucinations of nasty little creatures sabotaging the planes."It ain't Wendell Willkie!" :P
Anachronism aside, gremlins ought to be a natural enemy of the mechanically inclined dwarves... I just wish there was a medieval equivalent to use for a better name.
As for alternative names, what about "Brownie," "Urisk," or "Hob"?I think Kilmoulis would be closer, because a Brownie is more associated with households and an Urisk with the wilderness, while a Kilmoulis typically inhabits a mill.
@ragundo: I recommend painting your question in green (any green will do) by updating your post, as the green color is a signal to Toady to read them (allowing him to skip or skim over the surrounding forumite chatter).
Then I added adjectives in the announcement names of people when you don't know their names, so the combat logs etc. aren't so ambiguous. It uses their most prominent feature (either the body shape or a specific part)... except for long hair, since I haven't made most people cut their hair yet.
Oh that is amusing.This is human with a long nose's nose.QuoteThen I added adjectives in the announcement names of people when you don't know their names, so the combat logs etc. aren't so ambiguous. It uses their most prominent feature (either the body shape or a specific part)... except for long hair, since I haven't made most people cut their hair yet.
So next time I run into bandits with distinctive noses and ears, I'll know to target them first. Actually, wait. This leads to a question.
If you meet an unnamed character identified by a distinctive feature that can be severed (nose, ears, etc), what happens to their descriptive adjective if you lop the identifying part off? Does it pick the next available feature, replace it with "the guy with a missing nose" instead, completely fail to update the identifier, crash, or what? o3o
Reminds me of The Hobbit adventure game where every goblin had his own adjective. The nasty goblin enters, the hideous goblin goes south, the disgusting goblin attacks Thorin, with one well placed blow cleaves his skull, Gandalf says 'hurry up'...happy days. :)Urist McMonarch cancels attack, singing about gold.
Could continue quoting this all day, but I sense Toady's pale bulbous eyes staring at us. Time to move on. Wait. Wait...Reminds me of The Hobbit adventure game where every goblin had his own adjective. The nasty goblin enters, the hideous goblin goes south, the disgusting goblin attacks Thorin, with one well placed blow cleaves his skull, Gandalf says 'hurry up'...happy days. :)Urist McMonarch cancels attack, singing about gold.
Reminds me of The Hobbit adventure game where every goblin had his own adjective. The nasty goblin enters, the hideous goblin goes south, the disgusting goblin attacks Thorin, with one well placed blow cleaves his skull, Gandalf says 'hurry up'...happy days. :)That last example makes me wonder how we know? I guess it falls into the same category as the extreme detail about all the internal damage we do to our enemies, but then we don't know their name.
Missing body parts adjectives could be 'noseless', 'one-armed', 'neutered', etc.
Missing body parts adjectives could be 'noseless', 'one-armed', 'neutered', etc.
I'm looking forward to decorating rooms with relevant engravings: temples will be covered in imagery of deities, barracks will be covered in imagery of battles and noble rooms will be covered in imagery of those nobles. It's a damned shame that there's no sort of engravings good for taverns or libraries.Cheese and artifacts/history, respectively. Or just cheese everywhere.
I'm looking forward to decorating rooms with relevant engravings: temples will be covered in imagery of deities, barracks will be covered in imagery of battles and noble rooms will be covered in imagery of those nobles. It's a damned shame that there's no sort of engravings good for taverns or libraries.
I'm looking forward to decorating rooms with relevant engravings: temples will be covered in imagery of deities, barracks will be covered in imagery of battles and noble rooms will be covered in imagery of those nobles. It's a damned shame that there's no sort of engravings good for taverns or libraries.(http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzopmk6QOU1rq0wemo1_1280.jpg)
Could we get to actually make flags and tapestry(or whatever those things that hangs from the wall are called) with our fortress simbols now?
A theoretical answer to the banner question would be that when/if decorations like show cases, banners, tapestries, red carpets.red carpetscarpets
A theoretical answer to the banner question would be that when/if decorations like show cases, banners, tapestries, red carpets.red carpetscarpets
Given that I can already envision a production chain (specifically plant thread, which can be intercepted and dyed before arriving, goes to a craftshop where a clothier/sub-crafter type assembles it) carpets as a idea and a use in raising value seems like a logical point of decoration not explored upon within the game.
Does the future hold any *planned* developments where we can make our own non-carved natural wall embellishments such as the subject matter of carpets i mentioned above? ETC - Signage , IE - wooden and metal iconographic signs with different individual decoration rules *via workshop decoration modification*) but essentially work like tag on engravings, or carpets layered over floors detailing events as dictated or nothing at all.
A theoretical answer to the banner question would be that when/if decorations like show cases, banners, tapestries, red carpets.red carpetscarpets
Given that I can already envision a production chain (specifically plant thread, which can be intercepted and dyed before arriving, goes to a craftshop where a clothier/sub-crafter type assembles it) carpets as a idea and a use in raising value seems like a logical point of decoration not explored upon within the game.
Does the future hold any *planned* developments where we can make our own non-carved natural wall embellishments such as the subject matter of carpets i mentioned above? ETC - Signage , IE - wooden and metal iconographic signs with different individual decoration rules *via workshop decoration modification*) but essentially work like tag on engravings, or carpets layered over floors detailing events as dictated or nothing at all.
DF Talk #8 around the 1hr and 25min mark:
Toady: [] ... so I'd like to have ... the humans civilizations for example, it would be lame if they all had the same architecture, once I refresh my memory on what are the bits and pieces that make up the different architectures, what kind of different buildings there are and all that kind of stuff, they should make choices, then, and be able to have the towns have different characters to them when they make their walls or just their houses and various castles and little parapet things, and little spikes that stick out of the top with little flags on them, and minarets and all that kind of thing or whatever. As much diversity as you've got in the real world, as much as we can convey with a tile based format, that stuff should come across, it's one of those things where you have to engage in the project at some point and actually do it, and it's hard to time things which are superfluous in a sense, but they should be done. At first things will look vanilla, just as we get people to have walls properly and moats and tapestries and rugs and things, just making the towns look better, but as we get enough information to allow them to diversify then they should be able to do that, hopefully. (http://www.bay12games.com/media/df_talk_8_transcript.html)
A question regarding squads...
Will we see backup weapons as an option? For example, you could have a squad of marksdwarves that uses crossbows as normal when at a certain range away from the opponent, but uses daggers or short swords if an opponent gets too close or if they run out of ammo.
Would it be more viable to do it with crossbow dwarves that only spar using daggers, and do isolate live target training? Or will they still prefer crossbow bashing if they have knife user skill?A question regarding squads...
Will we see backup weapons as an option? For example, you could have a squad of marksdwarves that uses crossbows as normal when at a certain range away from the opponent, but uses daggers or short swords if an opponent gets too close or if they run out of ammo.
You've been able to assign multiple weapons to a squad kit for some time, with a bit of micromanaging. Getting the dwarves to think about using them is another matter entirely. In the example above, the "empty" crossbows use the Hammerdwarf skill when used as a melee weapon. A combat rewrite would be needed for the intended results.
Would it be more viable to do it with crossbow dwarves that only spar using daggers, and do isolate live target training? Or will they still prefer crossbow bashing if they have knife user skill?A question regarding squads...
Will we see backup weapons as an option? For example, you could have a squad of marksdwarves that uses crossbows as normal when at a certain range away from the opponent, but uses daggers or short swords if an opponent gets too close or if they run out of ammo.
You've been able to assign multiple weapons to a squad kit for some time, with a bit of micromanaging. Getting the dwarves to think about using them is another matter entirely. In the example above, the "empty" crossbows use the Hammerdwarf skill when used as a melee weapon. A combat rewrite would be needed for the intended results.
Hey Toady, thanks for previous answers. Here is big stack of questions, collected from your russian fans. Several сommon questions, such as “How long before the new release? When it will be possible to send the army to the goblins? When you turn on the economy?” are not present in this compilation.
1.Will there be a historically documented event in the spirit of "Columbus discovered America?" with the advent of ships. I mean, if some fraction will be able to reach new shores, it will somehow be reflected especially in its history?
2.Will the new phase of world activation include the emergence of professions and medicine into adventure mode?
3.Will you change the generation scheme for cities in the future? For example, similar to latest features, you can add geneartor architectural styles. And the profession of architect, that will include the ability to create tractate describing the new style, to become the city architect, to teach others, and so on (similar to other types of artists)
4.How soon the mechanics of mounts will be expanded? Now we can’t see them otherwise then in sieges.
5. Will there be any differences between the characteristics of animals of the same type?
Such as size distribution or other (interesting) differences (I don’t mean attributes and other stuff that’s already in game). It would be interesting to experience occasional anomalies such as albinism.
6. Will there be any complex cliffs or other landscape features? Today, the maximum that can make erosion - is + - 45 °, which looks like a beam, but not much of a canyon or even a ravine.
7.Will there be the tools for crafting such as a blacksmith hammers, knives for carving, and so on?
8. Our scientists can invent trip hammer and water powered trip hammer. Does it mean that these mechanisms will be ingame soon?
9.Will there be cursed city, that is special for werewolves and for vampires?
10.Will release with magic include some improvements for necromancers? Alchemy and other stuff that can make them stronger.
11.Will there be the religious wars? When one of the cults is especially militarized to destroy the others.
12. Will there be clans of mercenaries: normal soldiers, assassins, hired sales agents, and so on?
13.Will it be fixed when working dwarves throw weapons (axes, pickaxes, crossbows) when they are mobilized into army?
14. Won’t you add revolutions to fortress mode?Like your citizens are divided into two camps and these are fighting among themselves because of some disagreements.
15. Will there be certain game events in certain temples of the gods? I mean festivals in player fortress.
16. Won’t soldiers be able in fortress mode to throw a melee weapon? Like to throw an axe to head of fleeing goblin, and of course, get back the weapon if possible.
Will there ever be a point in the future where NPCs might seek revenge on their own?Interestingly, I was ordered to take out a bunch of bandits by a lord, a couple ran off and survived.
Basically when can I reenact the classic trope of murdering someone's loved ones in front of them, extolling the virtues of power and martial prowess to them, and then having them hunt me down years later once they're ready to take me on?
Will there ever be a point in the future where NPCs might seek revenge on their own?Interestingly, I was ordered to take out a bunch of bandits by a lord, a couple ran off and survived.
Basically when can I reenact the classic trope of murdering someone's loved ones in front of them, extolling the virtues of power and martial prowess to them, and then having them hunt me down years later once they're ready to take me on?
I later encountered them as ambushes in the town I attacked from.
Will there ever be a point in the future where NPCs might seek revenge on their own?This should already be possible if you mod six fingers onto your right hand ;)
Basically when can I reenact the classic trope of murdering someone's loved ones in front of them, extolling the virtues of power and martial prowess to them, and then having them hunt me down years later once they're ready to take me on?
Is there an indicator about a dance or song start attempt in place or are there plans to have one so we can "fill in" for the extra spot when npcs go to start a performance?
I've noticed that immigrants with extensive family histories have a lot more gods on their worship list than those that were generated without families, or with only their immediate families. Did you make it so children adopt the gods of their parents, or how do they decide? Does it use the same logic in worldgen and at the coming of adulthood in fortress mode?
Whatever the logic, when you get 3 or 4 rungs down a family tree dwarves end up worshipping every god in the pantheon, which is a pain. Is this an intended challenge, or a bug in worship list pruning?
is there a plan for the near future to make the champion useful again?
[What] are the [short-term/long-term/no] plans to add nonverbal communication [to adventure mode]? Currently, spitting is possible and characters cry when they're upset, but there's no way to laugh or to smile or to tap someone on the shoulder or give someone a hug.
Does the personality of a leader determine the nation's foreign policy during worldgen? I've seen evidence to support it.
Water and liquids is something that the games never really done well since it was 2d, the lack of flooding from a river and the lack of a cave river as well as magma one makes the game feel a bit less then it was. Are there plans to change the way liquids work at some point so they allow flooding as well as be better on performance as well as moving across the same z level faster then it is now?
Might rain also be done a bit better so it crosses different bioms instead of just raining perfectly in the biom that its allowed too?
This might be asking too much but how viable would it be to allow the game to be able to change the course of a river that might be prone to doing so? (Was thinking yellow river)
Does the number of goblins killed in a siege effect global goblin population?
So since in the future Demigods will be genuinely semi-divine. Have you decided on the exact method the game will dole out their divine gifts? Random, player's choice, or somehow earned with direct interaction with your parent?
I do like how in essence Demigod is kind of an entirely different type of play.
Will siege armies ever have different goals?
As the game goes "ha ha, nope" and crashes when an NPC drinks a cage which contains you, I never actually got to check and see if there were any Toadyism's included like the "there is no sunlight when you are dead" stuff. Is there a specific message if someone drinks you? I assume the usual "You have died in a cage." would pop up, but am naturally curious if there may be more.
What makes an army conquer or destroy as opposed to pillaging? It's not site type.
Toady, did you go and make cavern creatures hyper-fertile for reasons known only to you?
In the forseeable future will you do for food what has been done with music/dance/poetry? I'd really like to see legendary chefs execute extremely complicated signature dishes, and I'd like more complex food preparation reactions to be possible: meat preservation, fattening animals, etc.
Adventure mode related: don't know if this was addressed already, couldn't comb over the whole thread, but, are we gonna see personalized (and customizable in the "speech" folder) speech patterns for different races? It's kind of a strange dissonance right now that goblins and hostile bandits/criminals are as polite as any friendly race/group. Same goes for similar always-hostile modded civ. You'd think they'd "greet" you with insults and angrily tell you to "Go away!" as a "goodbye", and so on and so forth for the trade window and other talk options.
On a similar note, will we see customizable embark messages for modding purposes?
Will civilizations that don't value knowledge and thus don't build libraries be able to develop technologically once practical uses for inventions are created?
Toady, do you expect you'll move the ability for improvements to change the colors of items out into the raws anytime soon?
Earlier I was looking at this old Threetoe story and was wondering, what with the upcoming magic and artifact arc, will things like other planes (dreamworld, expanded underworld, afterlife (see below)) be considered for inclusion? In addition, will an afterlife (beyond the ghost features, more in the sense of a physical place or something) be considered for both adventurers, possibly giving them a second chance or at least something to do after being killed, and for fortress mode, expanding the ghost mechanic, perhaps allowing things like channelling, interaction with the dead via mediums or dreams, etc?
Is the lack of a Magic Sphere a conscious choice?
Actually: Are you still hoping to be able to get the between-site/roadside taverns and/or inns working for a 42.xx bump, a la the big 40.14 world activation or 40.19 stress/emotion changes update? I recall there being difficulties getting them in while the rest was ready to push out but can't find if there was more stated about what your plans there were.
What skill governs the construction of any given assembled instrument?
You recently added more hearth orders so I was wondering about this: Currently you can join a bandit gang (and even necromancer groups) in adventure mode as a lieutenant but they never seem to tell you to do anything, will you be making bandit leaders give players orders to harass nearby villages and, will players ever be able to establish their own bandit gangs?
Would it be a simple thing to enable regular non-dwarf migrants now? Considering how multi-cultural civs are, it's actually a bit strange how they still seem to be all dwarves these days.
In DF, scrolling a mouse's scroll wheel forward zooms the map out, and scrolling it backwards zooms it in. This is the opposite of most applications- why is this, and are there any plans to change it?
And speaking of randomized creatures, I did a little test recently: I genned a world with 1000 types of werebeasts, and searched the uncompressed save with a hex-editor. I found that werereptile-curses are considerably more common (28 was the least amount I saw for a given animal, and it seemed common for them to be in the 40's) than weremammal or weremarsupial-ones (both of which seem to have between 8 and 15 of a given animal). And that's not counting werelizard-curses, which are in a league of their own with a whopping 138 instances. What gives?
How exactly do the skill levels past legendary work? I believe it's generally recognized that legendary+5 is the highest meaningful skill level, but is there an actual decrease in how much each skill level gained does past that? A few years ago when the shaft of enlightenment bug was discovered, it was found that using it could bring skill levels above legendary+70, and that there was indeed a notable difference at that point. What was intended to happen with these incredibly high experience levels?
one reply you made implies that adventurers no longer being able to commit cannibalism and craft things (if modded in) from sentient body parts ( see issue: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=9171 ) was not intended behavior. Was that implication correct, or did I misunderstand something?
How close are we to verbally/visually identifying what group a particular bandit or hearth person holds allegiance to?
What's the reason for removing zombie wrestling? Is it difficulty, or because they were doing weird stuff with it (e.g., joint locks?) The stereotypical zombie, as I've seen them portrayed, congregates in a crowd of grasping arms. The difficulty should already be mitigated by the running and strength nerf.
entity_site_link has a int32 undocumented field, the 7th one, that seems to be a flags field, could you detail the meaning of those flags fields or at leat the following ones?
bit 00->(mask 0x001) related to trading
bit 01->(mask 0x002) related to nobility
bit 03->(mask 0x004) related to trading
bit 04->(mask 0x008) related to trading
bit 17->(mask 0x200) related to nobility
bit 18->(mask 0x400) related to nobility
bit 19->(mask 0x800) related to nobility
If you meet an unnamed character identified by a distinctive feature that can be severed (nose, ears, etc), what happens to their descriptive adjective if you lop the identifying part off? Does it pick the next available feature, replace it with "the guy with a missing nose" instead, completely fail to update the identifier, crash, or what? o3o
Does/will pain have any affect short of sudden unconsciousness?
Will it ever be possible to define custom item specific improvements?
Will there ever be a point in the future where NPCs might seek revenge on their own?
Will we see backup weapons as an option? For example, you could have a squad of marksdwarves that uses crossbows as normal when at a certain range away from the opponent, but uses daggers or short swords if an opponent gets too close or if they run out of ammo.
1.Will there be a historically documented event in the spirit of "Columbus discovered America?" with the advent of ships. I mean, if some fraction will be able to reach new shores, it will somehow be reflected especially in its history?
2.Will the new phase of world activation include the emergence of professions and medicine into adventure mode?
3.Will you change the generation scheme for cities in the future? For example, similar to latest features, you can add geneartor architectural styles. And the profession of architect, that will include the ability to create tractate describing the new style, to become the city architect, to teach others, and so on (similar to other types of artists)
4.How soon the mechanics of mounts will be expanded? Now we can’t see them otherwise then in sieges.
5. Will there be any differences between the characteristics of animals of the same type?
Such as size distribution or other (interesting) differences (I don’t mean attributes and other stuff that’s already in game). It would be interesting to experience occasional anomalies such as albinism.
6. Will there be any complex cliffs or other landscape features? Today, the maximum that can make erosion - is + - 45 °, which looks like a beam, but not much of a canyon or even a ravine.
7.Will there be the tools for crafting such as a blacksmith hammers, knives for carving, and so on?
8. Our scientists can invent trip hammer and water powered trip hammer. Does it mean that these mechanisms will be ingame soon?
9.Will there be cursed city, that is special for werewolves and for vampires?
10.Will release with magic include some improvements for necromancers? Alchemy and other stuff that can make them stronger.
11.Will there be the religious wars? When one of the cults is especially militarized to destroy the others.
12. Will there be clans of mercenaries: normal soldiers, assassins, hired sales agents, and so on?
13.Will it be fixed when working dwarves throw weapons (axes, pickaxes, crossbows) when they are mobilized into army?
14. Won’t you add revolutions to fortress mode?Like your citizens are divided into two camps and these are fighting among themselves because of some disagreements.
15. Will there be certain game events in certain temples of the gods? I mean festivals in player fortress.
16. Won’t soldiers be able in fortress mode to throw a melee weapon? Like to throw an axe to head of fleeing goblin, and of course, get back the weapon if possible.
Do animal-men continue to civilize in the background after initial worldgen is complete? If so, would the presence of a player fortress in an otherwise unsettled region speed up this process?
Quote from: Random_Dragonone reply you made implies that adventurers no longer being able to commit cannibalism and craft things (if modded in) from sentient body parts ( see issue: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=9171 ) was not intended behavior. Was that implication correct, or did I misunderstand something?
That's right. I didn't remember changing anything relevant, but something apparently happened. I atill haven't looked at what the old behavior was.
Well, that certainly explains why the sieges always take a turn for the underwhelming after I crush a few big ones. Any plans to remedy that?Quote from: cochramdDoes the number of goblins killed in a siege effect global goblin population?
Yeah, they are all real, but it doesn't know how to pull from outlying villages yet, so there's a limit on the area of the effect. Global populations can also increase if there are enough of them, regardless of what you are managing at your fort.
You misunderstand me. I wasn't saying that giant olms and giant toads were having babies more often (though that might also be the case), I was saying that among giant olms and giant toads double and triple births are as common as single births.Quote from: cochramdToady, did you go and make cavern creatures hyper-fertile for reasons known only to you?
It's probably related to the bug fix that stopped creatures from requiring a marriage-frame-of-mind before breeding.
Well, that certainly explains why the sieges always take a turn for the underwhelming after I crush a few big ones. Any plans to remedy that?
You misunderstand me. I wasn't saying that giant olms and giant toads were having babies more often (though that might also be the case), I was saying that among giant olms and giant toads double and triple births are as common as single births.
A) What exactly is a scholar doing when his job reads Research?
B) My fort hit the wealth and population for FBs a long time ago. I got one, then didn't see any for over a decade. However, for the past 2 years, I've gotten one or two FBs per season, every season (not complaining, for the record). Is my drought and flood of FBs a coincidence that occurred because my embark was very far away from the stomping grounds of all but that first FB, or is there something deeper going on?
C) Related to the above, I've noticed that every time I do get 2 FBs in a single season, they come from different cavern layers. Is this a coincidence, or did you code "a cavern layer may only have a maximum of one FB appear in it per season" in somewhere?
:Quote from: ButtonI've noticed that immigrants with extensive family histories have a lot more gods on their worship list than those that were generated without families, or with only their immediate families. Did you make it so children adopt the gods of their parents, or how do they decide? Does it use the same logic in worldgen and at the coming of adulthood in fortress mode?
Whatever the logic, when you get 3 or 4 rungs down a family tree dwarves end up worshipping every god in the pantheon, which is a pain. Is this an intended challenge, or a bug in worship list pruning?
In world gen, the children inherit the religions of their parents as they grow up, so it starts to add up. The new temples turned this into a balance issue, which we haven't handled yet. In dwarf mode, as an early convenience, religion is just passed from the mother to the baby at birth, so the problem isn't compounded, but it is also a sillier system.
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Oh, you know, just thinkin' about scholarly pursuits and stuff. Probably thinking about a new idea involving their chosen focus, or writing a book, or talking about his passion with others, or something. Scholars don't do too much as of yet, as mentioned.Those 3 things are covered under the Ponder X!Write! and Discuss X! jobs. It's not clear what Research! is.
Distance affects MBs for certain. Not sure about FBs, as they have always seemed somewhat random to me. May be that they have been on the map, but weren't announced due to being within an unexplored area of the map, only to be revealed once they have entered a viewable area.Oh, believe me, it was NOT a case of FBs hiding out in hidden parts of the map, we're talking fully exposed caverns.
Each layer has its own population values, so it may just be on a layer where they would normally reside, but I do not know. I have seen multiple beasts on the same layer, but they could have wandered between layers through natural tunnels that connect layers, or it may have been coincidence.Have you seen 2 come onto the map in the same cavern in the same season? I haven't, and I'm wondering if it's just a coincidence.
Quote from: Max^TMActually: Are you still hoping to be able to get the between-site/roadside taverns and/or inns working for a 42.xx bump, a la the big 40.14 world activation or 40.19 stress/emotion changes update? I recall there being difficulties getting them in while the rest was ready to push out but can't find if there was more stated about what your plans there were.
I still haven't quite figured out "small" sites. It might be delayed until it fits in with a larger small-site push (like the lumber/mining/isolated temple/etc. stuff that'll be starting up with the related embark scenarios). It would be nice to have stuff sprinkled all over without the associated overhead of the full site definition (bandit camps suffer from this now).
From what people used to say back in the day, you would only be able to butcher sentient corpses if starving, but you could eat the meat if it was available at any time. However, I once had a character get to starving, and then wait a whole 'nother day, sitting around the corpse of a sentient creature, unable to butcher it. So I'm not very sure about that being able to butcher them if starving thing, however I know that regardless of hunger you could eat the meat of a sentient if it was available. So now it's the reverse and you can butcher them under all circumstances, but can't eat them under any circumstances.Quote from: Random_Dragonone reply you made implies that adventurers no longer being able to commit cannibalism and craft things (if modded in) from sentient body parts ( see issue: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=9171 ) was not intended behavior. Was that implication correct, or did I misunderstand something?
That's right. I didn't remember changing anything relevant, but something apparently happened. I atill haven't looked at what the old behavior was.
Ah, interesting. As far as I can recall, the old behavior was essentially no restriction at all. And even farther before that, it used to be that you couldn't butcher sentients in adventure mode at all, or possibly not unless starving. I think.
So in all three different instances, it's been an all-or-nothing approach to what can and can't be done.
In any case, thank you for the interesting answers as always.
A) What exactly is a scholar doing when his job reads"Research!"?Either your dwarf is on it's way to the library to do any scholarly job, and the research will change into ponder, discuss, read or write once he gets there,
It feels silly to add to Toady's own words, but I'll comment anyway...:Quote from: ButtonI've noticed that immigrants with extensive family histories have a lot more gods on their worship list than those that were generated without families, or with only their immediate families. Did you make it so children adopt the gods of their parents, or how do they decide? Does it use the same logic in worldgen and at the coming of adulthood in fortress mode?
Whatever the logic, when you get 3 or 4 rungs down a family tree dwarves end up worshipping every god in the pantheon, which is a pain. Is this an intended challenge, or a bug in worship list pruning?
In world gen, the children inherit the religions of their parents as they grow up, so it starts to add up. The new temples turned this into a balance issue, which we haven't handled yet. In dwarf mode, as an early convenience, religion is just passed from the mother to the baby at birth, so the problem isn't compounded, but it is also a sillier system.
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I've had a look at my fortress' single parent pair's children, and they all worshiped the deity of their mother (as Toady said), but in addition to that, most of them had one additional deity, which differed between the children. All of the additional deities were from the dwarven pantheon, though. Thus, if no pruning takes place, the females will continue to rack up more and more deities over the generations, so it seems the problem is actually compounded (but I'm very far from getting a second generation of children), and I guess few fortresses or worlds last long enough for multi generation accumulation to be much of a problem.
From what people used to say back in the day, you would only be able to butcher sentient corpses if starving, but you could eat the meat if it was available at any time. However, I once had a character get to starving, and then wait a whole 'nother day, sitting around the corpse of a sentient creature, unable to butcher it. So I'm not very sure about that being able to butcher them if starving thing, however I know that regardless of hunger you could eat the meat of a sentient if it was available. So now it's the reverse and you can butcher them under all circumstances, but can't eat them under any circumstances.
I have recently found that aside from animals with the [COMMON_DOMESTIC] tag, the only above-ground [PET] animals that will be domesticated in worldgen are those with the [PACK_ANIMAL] tag. Why aren't the above-ground [PET] animals without the [PACK_ANIMAL] tag being domesticated?
To elaborate a bit further, I removed [COMMON_DOMESTIC] from every animal except the dog. After making sure every animal had wild populations, I gave alpacas, llamas (which Modest Mod had given [PACK_ANIMAL]) and yaks the [UBIQUITOUS] tag. My line of thought was that dwarven civilization ALWAYS starts in the mountains, making these animals ALWAYS appear in every mountain biome would guarantee that every dwarven civilization I generate had access to shearable, milkable and hauling animals. I've generated 10 worlds, and in each world my civilization had domesticated yaks and llamas, but NEVER alpacas. I had made Dralthas and Elk Birds [PET] animals in the latter 5 worlds, but in all worlds it was the same case for above-ground animals; only above-ground animals with [PACK_ANIMAL] were ever domesticated. (Interestingly, 6 of those civilizations had domesticated donkeys and 8 had domesticated both kinds of camels, making them the most common 'variable' domestic animals.)
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=7767Okay then, looking at the date this was reported I'm going to assume it's near the bottom of the "to-fix" list if it's on the list at all. I'm still curious whether or not this is a bug or a feature as far as Toady is concerned.
It could be just a + tolerance. i.e. they can wear clothes that are too big by a certain amount, but not too small.I don't think so. The acceptable range seemed to vary with creature size in some way, IIRC, but unfortunately I didn't save my detailed results. I'm sure it wasn't a static amount, because that's the first thing I looked for.
Sometimes I see "I've heard i died" or "I am dead" or things like this from dwarves (in arena mode, but I suppose you could find this elsewhere). Even if it's quite fun to read (in a non sense way), what does it exactly mean ?
Thanks for the great update Toady, it's really neat, however there seems to be an issue with the making of beds with custom woods. You can make them out of whatever wood you want but the material won't show up on the task list of the workshop. A minor bug.
So, I think i'm in love with the customizing of objects, and the ability to create bone items in adventure mode and also customize them, however, it seems like you only get the option to go into specifics when carving figurines in adventure mode and not , for example, amulets.When will we be able to do this or does it depend on your skill?
Also, on a related note, when will I be able to legitimately open up a "bone carving" shoppe in a town or something similar instead of just peddling to people on the streets?
So, I think i'm in love with the customizing of objects, and the ability to create bone items in adventure mode and also customize them, however, it seems like you only get the option to go into specifics when carving figurines in adventure mode and not , for example, amulets.When will we be able to do this or does it depend on your skill?
Also, on a related note, when will I be able to legitimately open up a "bone carving" shoppe in a town or something similar instead of just peddling to people on the streets?
Amulets don't have images on them by default. Unless you mean when you try to put an image on an amulet, then I can't answer that.
As for when you can set up a shop, the answer will probably be "when I get around to it". No specific timelines here, but I would wager that shops and other property ownership would come into play once development starts on a properly functioning economy.
Will sand and clay tiles remain as infinite sources of the respective materials or will they become finite at some point in the distant future?Toady has mentioned a few times that he would like sand to work more like a liquid, and he mentioned back when the clay industry was added (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=60554.msg1943773#msg1943773) that they considered making clay finite.
Quote from: NSQuoteWhere would you obtain clay from?Quote from: AreyarIt would be nice to see a mechanism where there is at least a small chance of a tile being mined out if clay mining will use the current sand collection interface. (Same for sand actually, but less so.)Right now it works like sand, and we were considering making it eat up the tiles after a number of uses, but it doesn't currently do that.
Once player fortresses will be able to interact with hillocks and mountain halls, will they be able to interact only with nearby settlements that aren't too far away? Also, will new hillocks and mountain halls be founded near the player's fortress over time?From what I gather the smaller settlements are part of a push to have your fort expand without needing more chunks loaded to the same level of detail as fort mode. This is in part so we'll have big enough populations to draw from for the giant armies we'll need.
Because of all the performing, dwarves don't talk to each other as much any more. This means dwarves don't form relationships as easily, though I have noticed that lovers marry sooner. Are you going to do something to balance this out?Not to mention that kids now are so intent on playing (alone) that I've so far failed to find any kid who's even passingly familiar with another. Kids occasionally recognize the beard of one or a few adults.
*sweats profusely*Will sand and clay tiles remain as infinite sources of the respective materials or will they become finite at some point in the distant future?Toady has mentioned a few times that he would like sand to work more like a liquid, and he mentioned back when the clay industry was added (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=60554.msg1943773#msg1943773) that they considered making clay finite.Quote from: Toady OneQuote from: NSQuoteWhere would you obtain clay from?Quote from: AreyarIt would be nice to see a mechanism where there is at least a small chance of a tile being mined out if clay mining will use the current sand collection interface. (Same for sand actually, but less so.)Right now it works like sand, and we were considering making it eat up the tiles after a number of uses, but it doesn't currently do that.
As such, it seems reasonable that sand and clay won't stay as infinite as they are right now.
Are fistfights supposed to be counted as crimes? Right now they're not, even if somedwarf dies in a brawl.
If I recall, images on amulets and other items are an improvement or decoration, hence why they don't yet work in adventure mode.
In contrast, figurines have image properties on their own, hence working differently.
The Yeti (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Yeti) and Samsquanch(sic); In relation to the new changes with Taverns and various Animal men having the option to try civilized life now. Where do they fit in? I ask because I notice they are not tamable, but I don't think they are like the <noun>men, If I make my Tavern/Library/Temple bitchen enough will there be a chance the local population may decide to stop kicking in the door and stop in for a pint?
They aren't intelligent, so barring any future changes, they won't be wanting to stop by a place where everybody will presumably know their name.Alright, sounds fair enough thank you. I think for my own purposes on this map then I am going to add trainable tags because the thought of and army of War Yeti is to funny to pass up.
You mentioned adding helves/using them to make stone axes/possibly using those to enable tree cutting and such, but the issue with not being able to give those changes permanence being in place. Are you saying that you're considering basically adding some of the dfhack advfort script* (which allows some fort functionality) to adventure mode officially, and are you aware that we will be happy and love it even if site permanence isn't preserved everywhere?
*Not sure if you've played with it, it puts up a gui line at the top left with the selected job/task, then careful movement in a direction activates said job, you can scroll through and change the jobs, and it will let you pull items from the ground/your hands/backpack I think to use yourself or at an appropriate workshop. Being able to perform construction/deconstruction/mining/tree cutting would be amazing for cases like libraries that spawn with the entrance underground, even if the changes reverted when you left the zone, simply being able to get inside while you're there would be a huge improvement.
He has had player-site building planned for a long while, i'm sure he will figure something out. I for one am excited, I am sure he will do some clever restrictions (like having you "claim land" then only allowing you to change things there or something like that.) Or maybe just saving the areas you edit right away.Well, the micro-sites would be needed for the roadside taverns, and awesome if that ends up working itself out soon. Either way, even if the same restrictions advfort has are present (only a few types of sites keep changes, lairs, player forts, I think towers maybe?) I really doubt anybody would mind at all, just having those sorts of jobs available in vanilla would be amazing.
He has talked about "micro-sites" so maybe thats how he will do it.
How does the game determine what material is used for outsider weapons? My testing so far has shown that if you mod copper to be unsuitable for use in weapons, it'll pick silver instead. What makes it choose though materials, over, say, iron?Oh god, yeah, I'm pretty curious about the outsider "entity" too, how much of that could be moved to the raws I wonder, if just so I could have a bearded outsider dorf.
All I know is that you always start with a weapon that uses the spear skill, and another weapon that uses the dagger skill. Even if the weapons aren't allowed for any entities; for example, 'legendary' weapons modded in as a possible outcome of a mood.
Just a Correlation but from what I under stand, you normally start with copper Picks in Fortress mode because they are cheapest.All I know is that you always start with a weapon that uses the spear skill, and another weapon that uses the dagger skill. Even if the weapons aren't allowed for any entities; for example, 'legendary' weapons modded in as a possible outcome of a mood.
Yeah. The weapon types I've pinned down concretely. It's always an item of type "WEAPON" that uses the specified skills, and excludes training weapons. You never spawn with civilian knives instead, because those are tools instead of weapons. And you never spawn with training spears because those have the training token thingy.
However, if you mod in addition weapons that fit the criteria, last I checked they'll be selected at random.
So it's MATERIAL that has me stumped. So far I've pinned down the idea that IS_METAL and MAYBE ITEMS_WEAPON are required tokens for a material to be used by outsiders, but I don't know what makes it favor copper unless forced to do otherwise.
Of course, chopping down trees isn't very interesting by itself. The reason we went forward with it now is that next we'll be using the logs for some construction options and finally adventurer-driven site creation to cap adventure mode features for this release. More on that as it is implemented!
Have you taken any inspiration from the adventure Fort dfhack plugin?Doubtful, this has been planned since the beginning.
What's more likely is using adventure-mode mods as inspiration for some of the new content, the reaction stuff at least. But then again, those are ubiquitous and contain a wide array of content and ideas.
Threetoe:The next question comes from Chevil, and he asks "How often does Threetoe play Dwarf Fortress and what mods does he use?"
Threetoe:Well, I don't use any mods, because I'm usually playtesting the legacy mode when it comes out, and I can't even resize my screen - that's how hardcore I am with Dwarf Fortress.
Rainseeker: The13thRonin from the forums asks; [9]Do you ever play any of the mods for Dwarf Fortress in your spare time, and if so which one is your favourite?'
Toady: I guess the short ... I just haven't, I haven't done it. I read about them, I know people like orcs and so on, to kill them, but I haven't tried any of them myself. I guess I've seen mods when I load, because oftentimes I'll get a bug report and the save will just be a total conversion or something, and so they need to send their mods. So I've loaded up fortresses before and I'm like 'these are all dragon men'; so I've seen them there, but I've never played with a mod, because it's kind of like if I wanted something in the game, I'd probably just put it in. When it comes to that kind of thing, and I'm not really curious about how playing with other races is, because I know it's kind of buggy, and I know I want to more fully support it later, so I haven't really tried it out.
Will adventurers be able to use stones in building? Will they be able to farm?
I can't seem to find anything about that on the dev page, though I swear I've seen it mentioned before that the game will eventually move more towards work-zones than workshops.
Oh, I'm suddenly remembering that boogeymen exist.Boogeymen are real things, but you are under such existential stress that perceptions are warped into phantasmagorical proportions. You see, boogeymen are the fervent supporters of a political party other than your own ;)
In what manner do boogeymen exist? Are they phantasmagorical, physical-just-summoned, or some kind of spiritual entity, like a ghost?
Looking forward, how do you think boogeymen should exist in relation to the citizens of fortresses? What sort of cultural influence do you think they should have? Will their degree of physicality vary with the "world fancifulness" settings you mentioned implementing at one point or another?
Do bogeymen set off traps? Should bogeymen set off traps?
Will workshops be replaced by zones or rooms eventually? Like a tavern, you build tools and store them in it.
Will we eventually be able to define our own custom biomes, just like with custom weather effects?
Do you plan to ever add any new Ages?Doubtful, the gods are procedurally generated, and I believe toady has said armok is not planned to appear in dwarf fortress without modding ever (though I might be wrong about armok).
Will Armok appear in any capacity in generated mythology?
What do you mean by more ages btw?I'm aware of that list. I'm asking if he plans to ever add new ones, maybe connected to new mythology stuff, or something like that.
list of ages here, though most ages are based on adlibbing names of creatures and such.
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Calendar
Is it possible to dig/channel in adventure mode?
Will Bone carving and butchery adventure jobs be restricted to specific workshops, or there will be no changes?
Do you have a will or some other similar apparatus set up so that, in the event of some tragic event (perish the thought) leaving you unable to communicate, the source code for Dwarf Fortress will be made available to the public?Toady One has mentioned that his will specifies that the source code be released upon his death... unless such death is suspected of being motivated by getting access to the source code. Living wills (for the case of inability to communicate) are more complicated, and I don't know if Toady has one.
Who would ever kill Toady for the game code? WHO COULD DO SUCH A THING?!Houses. Adventure Mode.
Killing goblins, however, usually is.
They are perfectly fine with goblins killing goblins. It's anyone else killing goblins that they mind.Killing goblins, however, usually is.
But what if you are the goblins? :V
Thats not really how the game works, the biomes are ingrained deeply into the simulation eg, swamps are based on a salinity maps, water maps , temperature, climate etc and a ton of other maps on the world map.It doesnt just randomly place biomes they come about based on climate and stuff like real life. If you mean defining something akin to a"good/evil" biome the plan is to base them off of spheres. I doubt we will be able to create our own, we might be able to edit raw files for them like with evil biomes and stuff though.
It's not like biome definition is something that can't be moved to the raws (for example, a mod could shoehorn subtropical ranges between the tropical and temperate ones), but it would require modifying a lot of vanilla raws to have any impact, and doesn't seem worth the effort for the foreseeable future.Thats not really how the game works, the biomes are ingrained deeply into the simulation eg, swamps are based on a salinity maps, water maps , temperature, climate etc and a ton of other maps on the world map.It doesnt just randomly place biomes they come about based on climate and stuff like real life. If you mean defining something akin to a"good/evil" biome the plan is to base them off of spheres. I doubt we will be able to create our own, we might be able to edit raw files for them like with evil biomes and stuff though.
Ahh, big shame then, I was thinking something akin to an evil/good/savage biome setup, just with being able to define only certain types of grass/rock/etc. to show up in said biome, instead of amid the generic types of material.
Maybe it will eventually get to that point.It's not like biome definition is something that can't be moved to the raws (for example, a mod could shoehorn subtropical ranges between the tropical and temperate ones), but it would require modifying a lot of vanilla raws to have any impact, and doesn't seem worth the effort for the foreseeable future.Thats not really how the game works, the biomes are ingrained deeply into the simulation eg, swamps are based on a salinity maps, water maps , temperature, climate etc and a ton of other maps on the world map.It doesnt just randomly place biomes they come about based on climate and stuff like real life. If you mean defining something akin to a"good/evil" biome the plan is to base them off of spheres. I doubt we will be able to create our own, we might be able to edit raw files for them like with evil biomes and stuff though.
Ahh, big shame then, I was thinking something akin to an evil/good/savage biome setup, just with being able to define only certain types of grass/rock/etc. to show up in said biome, instead of amid the generic types of material.
If plants and creatures eventually transition to preferred environment parameters rather than named biomes, then the biome descriptions themselves become flavor text and moving them to the raws makes perfect sense. Then if you really do want to build your little house on a Prairie, you can.
Or you could wait a week, and then you'd have happyplayers [not outtokillyouplayers] as well as regularish updates for the next update. Srsly, killing Toady is never the solution.Seems like that would be a natural sidegrowth of multitile creatures. You can almost fake it with interactions (except it would show as "the spinning spear" or "is engulfed in a burst of spears" since it would technically be shooting the item with a ~2 tile range) or go the other way and have longer weapons with low prepare/high recovery since they can be brought to bear "earlier" but there's still stuff like how would you display it, if at all, how do you handle intervening units, etc.
Killing goblins, however, usually is.
ON TOPIC NOW!
Toady, do you ever plan on making spears and such able to attack from a longer reach?
If it were up to me, I'd redo some of the combat code, allowing dwarves armed with certain weapons to attack from one tile away, but I have no idea how hard that is, how long it would take, and how buggy the result would be.
Or you could wait a week, and then you'd have happyplayers [not outtokillyouplayers] as well as regularish updates for the next update. Srsly, killing Toady is never the solution.
Killing goblins, however, usually is.
ON TOPIC NOW!
Toady, do you ever plan on making spears and such able to attack from a longer reach?
Rainseeker: Now if you have a spear lets say, a longer weapon, could you hit a person running at you sooner than he could hit you?
Toady: This is one of the main things we haven't done in terms of the combat arc, is reach. I mean, reach is a really really really really important concept that hasn't been explored in Dwarf Fortress yet and we were almost going to jump in, and because there are so many things you wanna do when you get this new combat stuff in, you wanna add all sorts of things that make it more and more realistic or whatever and so we drew the line. We were thinking about letting you sort of guard a square in a direction, so you'd sort of set your weapon like a spear in a certain direction so someone can't even enter that square, and it's going to be interesting when we start controlling space so that all the battles don't end up with two people next to each other all the time, 'cause people should be farther away from each other especially when fighting with weapons than they are right now, where it's, there's still no..
it's like there's all the interesting things about attacks interweaving with each other and so on but there's still no kind of calm periods or testing periods and it, it's not quite sure where that's going to fit in. And reach is a part of that, getting tired and like, losing your gas tank is part of that. Also though there's a there's a big psychological aspect of that, about seeing what the other person's gonna do and almost kinda playing poker with them to try and figure out.. do they always fall into a pattern where they jab left, jab right or whatever. And then there's a lot of things that come into fighting somebody that slows the pace down and we can only try to approximate this as best we can and we haven't really attempted that yet.
But it's definitely, for for people who still think that, that, that, you know it's way too wild right now the way people just kinda go at each other like beasts, it's, that's something we acknowledge and you know, I just mentioned, you know three or so things that would definitely help and I'm sure there's more out there. So they're all do-able, the psychological one's kinda the hardest, ‘cause I mean are you supposed to kind of memorize the patterns or just have the game give you a bonus over time if you're a better fighter than they are or something like that, the longer you fight them the more you kinda figure them out and get bonuses are some of the... so there's abstract ways to do it there are non-abstract ways to do it, we haven't really thought about what angle we're gonna take.
Toady, do you ever plan on moving away from tiles/increasing the resolution of tiles? Of course, this would likely come WELL after multi-tile creatures, so the question is a little premature.
I think they mean resolution as in the resolution of mechanical detail, not graphical resolution.
As far as increasing the resolution of tiles - it has always been possible for you to use higher resolution tiles that suit your set up.
I think they mean resolution as in the resolution of mechanical detail, not graphical resolution.
As far as increasing the resolution of tiles - it has always been possible for you to use higher resolution tiles that suit your set up.
I parsed their question with "and/or" in place of their "/" - I'm not sure how else to interpret what they meant. But, out of all the games that exist that will see an increase in "mechanical detail" - this is that game.I read it as pixel-based/freeform movement and placement or the like (which isn't particularly likely to happen).
So, yes, there will be an increase in mechanical detail. ;]
What's the intended behavior for small goblin ambushes/sieges? Small groups of goblins will occasionally turn up before you hit the population trigger, then leave pretty quickly. Are these supposed to be ambushes? Thief groups? Simply lost goblins on their way to somewhere else? Goblin entities don't seem to have the [AMBUSHER] tag, but there seems to be some confusion as to what this tag actually does/is supposed to do.
What has kept you from making it possible to define items at a creature level? So instead of having to have an entity in order not to walk about unarmed and naked, we would have tags along the lines of [CREATURE_HELMET:X] which would result in items being spawned along with the creatures clusters. What exactly are your plans to equip uncivilized intelligents, surely them walking around naked and unarmed is not the final intent?Smells... sugestiony.
Well [SIEGER] is for humans and dwarves. It implies a specific method of sieging, wherein they actually siege rather than just send large forces to attack. They make some campfires and wait around outside your fortress, which will presumably end up starving you once the food and caravan revamp happens where it's actually going to be likely you'll depend on outside food sources for food.What's the intended behavior for small goblin ambushes/sieges? Small groups of goblins will occasionally turn up before you hit the population trigger, then leave pretty quickly. Are these supposed to be ambushes? Thief groups? Simply lost goblins on their way to somewhere else? Goblin entities don't seem to have the [AMBUSHER] tag, but there seems to be some confusion as to what this tag actually does/is supposed to do.
Which is bloody weird because goblins are supposed to send ambushes. Then again, in early DF2012 the siege token had been removed from goblins and they'd siege anyway... :V
Well [SIEGER] is for humans and dwarves. It implies a specific method of sieging, wherein they actually siege rather than just send large forces to attack. They make some campfires and wait around outside your fortress, which will presumably end up starving you once the food and caravan revamp happens where it's actually going to be likely you'll depend on outside food sources for food.Currently, creatures which are not your citizens and livestocks don't need to consume food. Which makes me wonder, if one day this is "fixed", will the siegers starve themselves before you run out of food?
Currently, creatures which are not your citizens and livestocks don't need to consume food. Which makes me wonder, if one day this is "fixed", will the siegers starve themselves before you run out of food?I've often wondered if Toady will have us managing and destroying supply lines once we get to march armies about the world map.
The development page suggests digging through your walls
You are not living up to your avatar, it seems.The development page suggests digging through your walls
Sweet zombie Jesus no. ;w;
You are not living up to your avatar, it seems.
For three days he laid in the tomb. Then he got up and moaned, "brains... amen"The development page suggests digging through your walls
Sweet zombie Jesus no. ;w;
I've seen my stonefall traps cripple a lot of enemies without killing them. These crippled enemies often make it off the map when the foe retreats. Does crippled enemies leaving the map alive have an effect on the rest of the world? Am I weakening the goblin civilization by not just killing but also crippling so many of their soldiers and warbeasts?
Also I have observed that every kind of animal will crowd in one corner or on one edge of their pasture and will sometimes even leave their own pastures, presumably because they want the attention of the dwarfs. You might want to set about fixing that behavior; I don't appreciate my grazers trampling their own grass and my war animals fighting each other for no reason, and I doubt anyone else does either.
Quote from: meYeah, they are all real, but it doesn't know how to pull from outlying villages yet, so there's a limit on the area of the effect. Global populations can also increase if there are enough of them, regardless of what you are managing at your fort.Quote from: cochramdWell, that certainly explains why the sieges always take a turn for the underwhelming after I crush a few big ones. Any plans to remedy that?
A) What exactly is a scholar doing when his job reads "Research!"?
B) My fort hit the wealth and population for FBs a long time ago. I got one, then didn't see any for over a decade. However, for the past 2 years, I've gotten one or two FBs per season, every season (not complaining, for the record). Is my drought and flood of FBs a coincidence that occurred because my embark was very far away from the stomping grounds of all but that first FB, or is there something deeper going on?
C) Related to the above, I've noticed that every time I do get 2 FBs in a single season, they come from different cavern layers. Is this a coincidence, or did you code "a cavern layer may only have a maximum of one FB appear in it per season" in somewhere?
If we start getting more sites or site-like things, then will they appear in the exported Legends data? If so, are there plans to make their (and other sites') locations more accurate than the world tile they're located on?
How come Threetoe doesn't post devlogs often these days?
Besides the missing "harass a town" orders, do bandits give any orders to their lieutenants? I recall someone mentioned being told to kill a local lord and such, which would be very exciting, but I've never encountered it. The only hearth quests I've gotten from non-lords was a criminal gang asking me to take out a local beast.
Are there any near-term plans for introducing new (or reintroducing old) !!FUN!! parts to the game? I'm talking sieges, dangerous critters, better ways to generate dangerous worlds.
I remember it being mentioned that people with elven ethics that join your fortress permanently and are made to cut down trees suffer from an incredibly bad though. What other situations where you can make someone go against their ethics cause bad thoughts? What would happen if you made a new civilization which couldn't stand killing animals, but you make them into a butcher? Or if you play as a civilization that allows the butchering of sentient creatures, but you get someone who's ethics aren't okay with that to do it?
How exactly is a creature's acceptable clothing size range determined? From my own testing, it seems a tick man (35000) can wear an otter man's (40000) clothes, but not the other way around. This rules out a simple +/- tolerance or size brackets. Is it percent-based?
Toady, a lot of the interface is configurable with keymappings and raw modding, which is awesome and appreciated, but I was curious if DF's overall design is roughly how you envision it after allowing for multi-tile creatures and graphics. That is, primarily a keyboard interface.
And for those design elements you think of as relatively final, do you have a set of guidelines you use (for example, high contrast or accommodating red/green colorblindness)?
Now that the world has been activated and the 'bones' of DF's engine are starting to settle, are these months long release cycles that flesh out and extend features here to stay as the norm or will there be more epic year(s) long cycles still planned for the road ahead?
when will I be able to legitimately open up a "bone carving" shoppe in a town or something similar instead of just peddling to people on the streets?
Are there any plans to add more materials options besides born, like horn or hoof? It's doable, but the most efficient way to make it work out (using reaction_class to group all desired materials for use in the same reaction) will work different from the way you have the reactions working now (namely, reaction_class makes it consume an entire stack, while).
Though personally I don't mind the other method consuming whole stacks, as it allows reaction mods to use bone and related materials in a way that's consistent with how leather reactions and the only non-buggy cloth reactions are used.
In relation to Deep Dwarves. If we could establish a reasonable trade relationship with them (assuming they can speak/no diplomats until a mayoral or barony stage for easy trades on hitting caverns/within range in the caverns/have access to the fortress depot from topside or cavern entrances) besides from trade goods like wood and maggots, would they offer a variety selection of animals from the caverns additionally?
Given the scarcity of some cavern creatures that appear in small numbers and the interesting barriers of [cave_animal] preferences to level 1 obtaining additional jabberers at a high price or selling off some troglodytes (into slavery? ethics unknown, would they eat them? force them to work? I realise these are all questions in themselves.) would be helpful to breeding programmes that have hit a dead end.
Once player fortresses will be able to interact with hillocks and mountain halls, will they be able to interact only with nearby settlements that aren't too far away? Also, will new hillocks and mountain halls be founded near the player's fortress over time?
Toady, I've noticed that nearly all tavern fights seem to erupt into a large scale fortress-wide conflict and end lethally. Is this an intended aspect of drunken brawls? I was under the impression that the fight would end once one of the fighters was knocked unconscious or yielded - but is that actually the case right now?
Because of all the performing, dwarves don't talk to each other as much any more. This means dwarves don't form relationships as easily, though I have noticed that lovers marry sooner. Are you going to do something to balance this out?
Currently, you can only trade with the dwarven caravan of your own civilization and the nearest human and elf civilizations. Will this ever change? Will travelers ever come from much further away to trade at the fort?
Given that the basic room system is half implemented already, with the development planned targets surrounding nobility entering and staying at the fort in rented rooms will there be any particular advantages to keeping nobles in pocket either long-term or permanently? Economy and diplomatic based bonuses perhaps?
Are fistfights supposed to be counted as crimes? Right now they're not, even if somedwarf dies in a brawl.
How does the game determine what material is used for outsider weapons? My testing so far has shown that if you mod copper to be unsuitable for use in weapons, it'll pick silver instead. What makes it choose though materials, over, say, iron?
Assuming you get to one of these replies before 42.07 is out, will the tree-cutting job involve moving to the travel screen like composing? I assume the mention of player-created data necessitates the transition to reload the map in the new state if that is the case.
If you do get 42.07 out before replying to this, is the push for adventurer-site creation related to the work needed to get the roadside taverns working?
1) Will we be able to embark on areas with adventurer made sites present or will they be blocked?
2) If we designate our adventure built site as a fortress (if that's possible) can we actually reclaim it later in fortress mode?
Here's a thought. If or when adventure mode sites become a thing, how are they planned to interact with existing sites? For example, would local lords get annoyed at the player-character for building unauthorized things all other their farming fields?
And what about the potential for building an isolated shelter in the wilderness, would that eventually allow retiring in places that normally aren't safe to retire in?
I know you plan to add bounties, but will we ever be able to for example, join a shady organization that for example kills nobles for other nobles.
Sort of like the dark brotherhood from skyrim? (Like an assassins guild) Or at least will nobles who are having succession issues maybe confront you and ask you to kill another noble to help you up their social status if you have a reputation for killing things and offer monetary rewards, perhaps only communicating through messages and that brings me to my other question...
Will you ever add "couriers" who deliver messages to you from people who want you to do things for them/meat them somewhere and if so could we use this to order around members of our own organization.
also (unrelated)
You said on the adventure mode df talk toady that you wanted to keep workshops out of adventurer mode - since they were more an abstraction of a concept and would be overhauled later. What changed your mind?
(original question from a dude on reddit)
Can players no longer usher in the age of emptiness in a given world many adventure mode players are claiming you can no longer depopulate sites in adventure mode
How will hafts for stone axes work, anyway? I'm assuming you'd use bone, or would you have to get wood in some other way first? Assuming harvesting branches from trees doesn't become a thing, that might cause something akin to the Anvil Paradox.
Will adventurers be able to use stones in building? Will they be able to farm?
will adventurer's buildings protect against bogeymen?
Will workshops be replaced by zones or rooms eventually? Like a tavern, you build tools and store them in it.
Will adventurers be able to make buildings from cloth?
And if they can, will that eventually migrate to fort mode as well?
In what manner do boogeymen exist? Are they phantasmagorical, physical-just-summoned, or some kind of spiritual entity, like a ghost?
Looking forward, how do you think boogeymen should exist in relation to the citizens of fortresses? What sort of cultural influence do you think they should have? Will their degree of physicality vary with the "world fancifulness" settings you mentioned implementing at one point or another?
Do bogeymen set off traps? Should bogeymen set off traps?
With being able to build now, does the construction exist as a true site, with a name, people who know of it could give directions, an entry in legends mode? Would we have a claim of ownership to our site? Would that be an independent claim (only we are associated with it, nobody else) or would it belong to our civilization if we are a member of one?
Since you made a workshop, which workshops and reactions are available to us in adventure mode for now? All of them?
So we can entomb the dead now in coffins we made (they are a container), right? Will that actually count as them being properly memorialized? Can we make slabs to memorialize someone as well?
Im unsure if this fits FoTF, but do you edit the RAW files by hand? Or did you develop your own RAW tool?
Will the 30-item cap for manager jobs ever be lifted?
Oh my, when you use a reaction that specifies only something empty (for brewing into flasks/waterskins/mugs/barrels as an adventurer, for example) it lists weapons you are holding. From poking around trying to do this with dfhack I know there isn't much difference between a weapon containing a corpse and a coffin containing a corpse. You recently mentioned putting items in containers, will we be able to have a nice cozy little cabin in the woods with rows of upright weapons and the bodies of our foes impaled on them?
Do you have any intention of adding a sound engine at some point in development?
Do you plan to ever add any new Ages?
Will Armok appear in any capacity in generated mythology?
Actually, are gods are planned to ever be RAWable?
Is it possible to dig/channel in adventure mode?
Will Bone carving and butchery adventure jobs be restricted to specific workshops, or there will be no changes?
Will necromancer adventurers be able to get their zombie minions to help build in the next version?
Toady, do you ever plan on moving away from tiles/increasing the resolution of tiles? Of course, this would likely come WELL after multi-tile creatures, so the question is a little premature.
What's the intended behavior for small goblin ambushes/sieges? Small groups of goblins will occasionally turn up before you hit the population trigger, then leave pretty quickly. Are these supposed to be ambushes? Thief groups? Simply lost goblins on their way to somewhere else? Goblin entities don't seem to have the [AMBUSHER] tag, but there seems to be some confusion as to what this tag actually does/is supposed to do.
What exactly are your plans to equip uncivilized intelligents, surely them walking around naked and unarmed is not the final intent?
Quote from: Random_DragonHow will hafts for stone axes work, anyway? I'm assuming you'd use bone, or would you have to get wood in some other way first? Assuming harvesting branches from trees doesn't become a thing, that might cause something akin to the Anvil Paradox.
You can pull a branch from branch tiles. We'd like to eventually make those weaker than helves that are carved from a split log (I think that's how it works anyway, avoiding the innermost bits is a goal, but I don't know much about it), but right now, it doesn't matter. The anvil paradox will come up more with picks and actual anvils, though it might be avoided as things stand with use of free-standing boulders or something.
The myth generator is going to mess with all of this.Bwahaha...
In general, large beasts of all kinds don't have any code at all about how they move around or attack or whatever, post worldgen.
Even titans deserve a vacation! :)In general, large beasts of all kinds don't have any code at all about how they move around or attack or whatever, post worldgen.
That would explain how I got attacked by a tundra titan in a subtropical fort...
You can pull a branch from branch tiles. We'd like to eventually make those weaker than helves that are carved from a split log (I think that's how it works anyway, avoiding the innermost bits is a goal, but I don't know much about it), but right now, it doesn't matter. The anvil paradox will come up more with picks and actual anvils, though it might be avoided as things stand with use of free-standing boulders or something.
They don't, at least not nearly as much as they used to. Rumrusher did an experiment where he locked two goblins in a small room for four years and they only got to long-term acquaintance.Quote from: TheFlame52Because of all the performing, dwarves don't talk to each other as much any more. This means dwarves don't form relationships as easily, though I have noticed that lovers marry sooner. Are you going to do something to balance this out?
They are supposed to talk to each other during the "Socialize" breaks between performances, which last a while. I'm not sure if they are pulling it off.
You can pull a branch from branch tiles. We'd like to eventually make those weaker than helves that are carved from a split log (I think that's how it works anyway, avoiding the innermost bits is a goal, but I don't know much about it), but right now, it doesn't matter. The anvil paradox will come up more with picks and actual anvils, though it might be avoided as things stand with use of free-standing boulders or something.
Speaking of the anvil paradox, I've heard a claim of an artifact anvil being made from jade (though it was in Masterwork) and have seen plenty of artifact bone battleaxes and pickaxes. Would it be possible for you to force artifact versions of certain objects made from non-standard materials being produced in the "time before time" of every generated world? Doing do for every object with a "chicken or the egg" problem would resolve those paradoxes once and for all.
I could've sworn people could sorta curl up on the ground in fear.
I'm currently trying to get dwarves to become lovers->marry by locking them into a room with food, booze, overlapping bedrooms, a tavern zone, and a temple zone for about one year. The results vary widely:They don't, at least not nearly as much as they used to. Rumrusher did an experiment where he locked two goblins in a small room for four years and they only got to long-term acquaintance.Quote from: TheFlame52Because of all the performing, dwarves don't talk to each other as much any more. This means dwarves don't form relationships as easily, though I have noticed that lovers marry sooner. Are you going to do something to balance this out?
They are supposed to talk to each other during the "Socialize" breaks between performances, which last a while. I'm not sure if they are pulling it off.
Hi I'm new to the forums. While I was playing DF a question came up for me, and I skimmed the dev log to see if my answer was there.There are materials defined within the game called FILTH_B and FILTH_Y (a brown solid and a yellow liquid, respectively)... and non-player cities have tunnels called "sewers"... but the actual pooping is one detail that hasn't actually made it into the game for a number of reasons. It's not that poop management isn't a major concern for real medieval cities, because it was, but Toady is working on improving other parts of the simulation that are of greater interest to him and most of the players.
Anyway here's my question and let me know if this is too off topic:
I noticed that dwarves don't go poo. Will there be a bathroom/sewer system implemented in the future (presumably far future) For example, making use of water/plumbing mechanics to provide/maintain sanitation for your dwarves such as toilets, water cleaning machines etc. along with a whole new pooping mechanic.
Right. Even then, it's one of those frequently-made suggestions that comes up a lot. If I recall, the biggest reason it hasn't been added is because it's been seen as an example of unnecessary realism.
Though admit it, drowning goblin invaders in crap would be funny. :V
A month of updates to go before the next reply so anything could happen but...
Before you're finished with this cycle, if you're still on-schedule, do you plan to look at fortress retirement issues one more time, or has that now been put aside until a major site overhaul (scenarios?) comes along?
With the adventurer updates, multi-racial fortresses and visitors the game almost seems to be at a stage where you can swap freely between modes and create an epic fantasy story. Almost. Sadly, merchants, wagons and swarms of "hostile" visitors wandering the halls of unretired fortresses along with tavern keepers who refuse to serve adventurers, are big, noticeable enough issues to put people off retiring for now in case their hard work is 'spoiled'. Which is a shame as they'll miss out on so much of your work until then.
As of this coming release (.07) will carpentry workshops built in player fortresses be usable by adventurers? Or is there some kind of code difference between workshops built in fort mode and adventure mode since the later are probably more temporary and the former are really old code?
Are there any plans to make other existing workshops that occur in world gen or player fortresses available to adventurers, or will that kind of thing be put off until you decide on the final configuration for adventure mode crafting?
How closely together can adventure mode sites be placed? If you put two next to each other can you build to their edges or do they have a one tile gap prohibiting construction as in fort mode?
A month of updates to go before the next reply so anything could happen but...
Before you're finished with this cycle, if you're still on-schedule, do you plan to look at fortress retirement issues one more time, or has that now been put aside until a major site overhaul (scenarios?) comes along?
With the adventurer updates, multi-racial fortresses and visitors the game almost seems to be at a stage where you can swap freely between modes and create an epic fantasy story. Almost. Sadly, merchants, wagons and swarms of "hostile" visitors wandering the halls of unretired fortresses along with tavern keepers who refuse to serve adventurers, are big, noticeable enough issues to put people off retiring for now in case their hard work is 'spoiled'. Which is a shame as they'll miss out on so much of your work until then.
For toady, there is a save on the bug tracker for the serve drink issue but it is sadly going unnoticed
And has been for 10 months (which also means it's an old version)
A month of updates to go before the next reply so anything could happen but...
Before you're finished with this cycle, if you're still on-schedule, do you plan to look at fortress retirement issues one more time, or has that now been put aside until a major site overhaul (scenarios?) comes along?
With the adventurer updates, multi-racial fortresses and visitors the game almost seems to be at a stage where you can swap freely between modes and create an epic fantasy story. Almost. Sadly, merchants, wagons and swarms of "hostile" visitors wandering the halls of unretired fortresses along with tavern keepers who refuse to serve adventurers, are big, noticeable enough issues to put people off retiring for now in case their hard work is 'spoiled'. Which is a shame as they'll miss out on so much of your work until then.
For toady, there is a save on the bug tracker for the serve drink issue but it is sadly going unnoticed
And has been for 10 months (which also means it's an old version)
Honey, there are unaddressed bugs in the tracker from 2010.
Yeah, I was going to just post something like this in your thread, but figured it'd be more constructive to work it into a FTF question. Everyone whose played adventurer and fortress combination games has noticed the issue, the only person who can do anything about it is Toady and he needs to look at your save and work out what's gone wrong first. And, you know, make Dwarf Fortress too. He'll get there eventually.A month of updates to go before the next reply so anything could happen but...
Before you're finished with this cycle, if you're still on-schedule, do you plan to look at fortress retirement issues one more time, or has that now been put aside until a major site overhaul (scenarios?) comes along?
With the adventurer updates, multi-racial fortresses and visitors the game almost seems to be at a stage where you can swap freely between modes and create an epic fantasy story. Almost. Sadly, merchants, wagons and swarms of "hostile" visitors wandering the halls of unretired fortresses along with tavern keepers who refuse to serve adventurers, are big, noticeable enough issues to put people off retiring for now in case their hard work is 'spoiled'. Which is a shame as they'll miss out on so much of your work until then.
For toady, there is a save on the bug tracker for the serve drink issue but it is sadly going unnoticed
And has been for 10 months (which also means it's an old version)
Honey, there are unaddressed bugs in the tracker from 2010.
I know it will happen eventually , heh this bug just makes me sad.So long as it's up on the tracker, that's the main thing.
Though I love the way adventure mode is going.
I noticed that dwarves don't go poo. Will there be a bathroom/sewer system implemented in the future (presumably far future) For example, making use of water/plumbing mechanics to provide/maintain sanitation for your dwarves such as toilets, water cleaning machines etc. along with a whole new pooping mechanic.
Any, Toady already said he wasn't going to do it.
I don't know how this became the conventional wisdom, because (as far as I know) he's never made an unqualified statement that he wouldn't in any form implement feces, scat, waste, or night soil. The game already has a brown "filth" material that, according to Toady, is feces (see quotes below).
Here's all the quotes I could dig up (note that this first one is from 2004, and that "no plans" is very different from "won't do it"):There are no plans to add "night soil". Dwarves poop little pebbles which seemlessly disappear into the cavern floor, or they collect them and cherish them or something.Do dwarves have water closets? Will we need to carefully craft "flushing" mechanisms to carry the unmentionables away?
There is currently no potty.4. Manure, as a fertilizer.
4. They just drop it everywhere? Everyone will might be doing it after a while... night soil, and so on. But it's a dangerous door to open, especially if the room on the other side is full. If a god turns you into a horse in adventure mode, would you suddenly start dropping the bomb?
From DF Talk: (http://bay12games.com/media/df_talk_combined_transcript.html)QuoteToady: [...] I like the idea of being able to track things and find them, and pick up little kobold scats and dig around to see what they've been eating ... after a fashion, anyway.QuoteRainseeker: So there's no poo creatures either?
Toady: It was a close thing! Because it was literally a decision I had to make, going down this list, because in the Hidden Fun Stuff of course if you get the tentacle demons then you get a layer scattered with various filth on the ground; and there's brown filth and yellow filth and so on and it's not clearly stated but it's a material that I had to put in properties for right? So there's these hard-coded filth materials, and when I was going down the list, you know 'Do I want creatures made out of mud? Do I want creatures made out of vomit? Do I want creatures made out of glass?', there's all these hard-coded materials, and I was just like 'Yeah, yeah, yeah ... No ... No ...' on the filth. But there are creatures made out of the grime, and the grime material is the material that collects on your body slowly over time, and it's also the material that's used in swamp water, so there's this ... I just needed this material called 'grime' for these miscellaneous purposes, it's just crap, just stuff that collects over time and when a creature is made out of that it just says 'composed of grime and filth'. So if you want to call that 'poo' even though it's not it's possible for you to extend your imagination.QuoteToady: [...] But the kind of thing that's on the table is gunpowder, and the materials that you need for that are already in the game, I think. We've got brimstone, which is sulphur, and I don't remember if we have saltpetre, if it's there or not, but ... I guess you could do all kinds of things with manure and urine to make it, or you can find it in a crystalline form in the ground perhaps.
And finally, sewers full of filth were a powergoal in the old dev item system:Quote# PowerGoal153, THE CRACKS OF DOOM, (Future): You flee into the sewer with the baron's ring, but sliding in the muck, you drop it. Try as you might, you cannot locate the precious object in the town's filth.
I noticed that dwarves don't go poo. Will there be a bathroom/sewer system implemented in the future (presumably far future) For example, making use of water/plumbing mechanics to provide/maintain sanitation for your dwarves such as toilets, water cleaning machines etc. along with a whole new pooping mechanic.
For a more expanded answer I'll quote Footkerchief from one of the suggestion debate threads.
[Snip]
Wasn't there something about Toady deciding against it because someone would inevitably exploit it in the usual DF style?
Vattic you know there are ALREADY sewers in adventure mode right? Like proper sewers.. ^ like what that power goal was referring to, you cant slip yet though and they arent filled with brown filth .I noticed that dwarves don't go poo. Will there be a bathroom/sewer system implemented in the future (presumably far future) For example, making use of water/plumbing mechanics to provide/maintain sanitation for your dwarves such as toilets, water cleaning machines etc. along with a whole new pooping mechanic.
For a more expanded answer I'll quote Footkerchief from one of the suggestion debate threads.Any, Toady already said he wasn't going to do it.
I don't know how this became the conventional wisdom, because (as far as I know) he's never made an unqualified statement that he wouldn't in any form implement feces, scat, waste, or night soil. The game already has a brown "filth" material that, according to Toady, is feces (see quotes below).
Here's all the quotes I could dig up (note that this first one is from 2004, and that "no plans" is very different from "won't do it"):There are no plans to add "night soil". Dwarves poop little pebbles which seemlessly disappear into the cavern floor, or they collect them and cherish them or something.Do dwarves have water closets? Will we need to carefully craft "flushing" mechanisms to carry the unmentionables away?
There is currently no potty.4. Manure, as a fertilizer.
4. They just drop it everywhere? Everyone will might be doing it after a while... night soil, and so on. But it's a dangerous door to open, especially if the room on the other side is full. If a god turns you into a horse in adventure mode, would you suddenly start dropping the bomb?
From DF Talk: (http://bay12games.com/media/df_talk_combined_transcript.html)QuoteToady: [...] I like the idea of being able to track things and find them, and pick up little kobold scats and dig around to see what they've been eating ... after a fashion, anyway.QuoteRainseeker: So there's no poo creatures either?
Toady: It was a close thing! Because it was literally a decision I had to make, going down this list, because in the Hidden Fun Stuff of course if you get the tentacle demons then you get a layer scattered with various filth on the ground; and there's brown filth and yellow filth and so on and it's not clearly stated but it's a material that I had to put in properties for right? So there's these hard-coded filth materials, and when I was going down the list, you know 'Do I want creatures made out of mud? Do I want creatures made out of vomit? Do I want creatures made out of glass?', there's all these hard-coded materials, and I was just like 'Yeah, yeah, yeah ... No ... No ...' on the filth. But there are creatures made out of the grime, and the grime material is the material that collects on your body slowly over time, and it's also the material that's used in swamp water, so there's this ... I just needed this material called 'grime' for these miscellaneous purposes, it's just crap, just stuff that collects over time and when a creature is made out of that it just says 'composed of grime and filth'. So if you want to call that 'poo' even though it's not it's possible for you to extend your imagination.QuoteToady: [...] But the kind of thing that's on the table is gunpowder, and the materials that you need for that are already in the game, I think. We've got brimstone, which is sulphur, and I don't remember if we have saltpetre, if it's there or not, but ... I guess you could do all kinds of things with manure and urine to make it, or you can find it in a crystalline form in the ground perhaps.
And finally, sewers full of filth were a powergoal in the old dev item system:Quote# PowerGoal153, THE CRACKS OF DOOM, (Future): You flee into the sewer with the baron's ring, but sliding in the muck, you drop it. Try as you might, you cannot locate the precious object in the town's filth.
As of this coming release (.07) will carpentry workshops built in player fortresses be usable by adventurers? Or is there some kind of code difference between workshops built in fort mode and adventure mode since the later are probably more temporary and the former are really old code?
Are there any plans to make other existing workshops that occur in world gen or player fortresses available to adventurers, or will that kind of thing be put off until you decide on the final configuration for adventure mode crafting?
Toady has said that he doesn't plan for workshops to be used in adventure mode.
Here's a house. You can see the upper floor in the z-window on the right. The carpenter's workshop is outside(http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/imgs/adv_camp_2.png)
As of this coming release (.07) will carpentry workshops built in player fortresses be usable by adventurers? Or is there some kind of code difference between workshops built in fort mode and adventure mode since the later are probably more temporary and the former are really old code?
Are there any plans to make other existing workshops that occur in world gen or player fortresses available to adventurers, or will that kind of thing be put off until you decide on the final configuration for adventure mode crafting?
Toady has said that he doesn't plan for workshops to be used in adventure mode.QuoteHere's a house. You can see the upper floor in the z-window on the right. The carpenter's workshop is outside(http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/imgs/adv_camp_2.png)
Quote from: UntrustedlifeYou said on the adventure mode df talk toady that you wanted to keep workshops out of adventurer mode - since they were more an abstraction of a concept and would be overhauled later. What changed your mind?We were happy with the figurines, so we figured we'd just toss in some more stuff. We still want to switch the workshops over, but that'll take the same amount of work either way, pretty much, and we didn't have time now to get into that, since we're between major pushes and already have other plans.
Toady also said in the last fotf reply that he plans to get rid of the workshops he just put in adventure mode eventually.
SO he wont be keeping that there and it isnt permanent .The question still stands. In 42.07 will adventurers be able to use carpenters workshops they find in fortresses? and conversly, since we can embark on adventurer sites, will fortress dwarves be able to use carpenters workshops left lying around by adventurers?
As of this coming release (.07) will carpentry workshops built in player fortresses be usable by adventurers? Or is there some kind of code difference between workshops built in fort mode and adventure mode since the later are probably more temporary and the former are really old code?
Are there any plans to make other existing workshops that occur in world gen or player fortresses available to adventurers, or will that kind of thing be put off until you decide on the final configuration for adventure mode crafting?
Toady has said that he doesn't plan for workshops to be used in adventure mode.QuoteHere's a house. You can see the upper floor in the z-window on the right. The carpenter's workshop is outside(http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/imgs/adv_camp_2.png)
So when might invaders and other guests/traders/migrants only show up from the edges of the map that can be traveled like in adventure mod so that mountains have some safety?
With the adventure map loading attempting to deal with sites might this also be applied to fort mode at some point as to load sections of the map and unload?
Will moods ever result in new items and even one off workshops (like a big magic magma forge from a possessed dwarf that causes some of the dwarfs that work it to add to a cursed armor and go insane soon after) being created?
When might it be that hydras regenerate quickly and even grow back heads as well as forgotten beasts made of fire and even blobs not dying in one hit?
Do not think I have had a dwarf get moody once, have artifacts been turned off for 42.0x?
So some of these questions might have been answered in one or more ways already
Are you SURE that it takes direction and accessibility into account when placing invaders?What do you mean by accessibility? If an adventurer and his army of rescued children can walk over the mountains, why would a bunch of goblins not be able to? 40.x goblins found it tricky, sure, but that was a bug.
Are you SURE that it takes direction and accessibility into account when placing invaders?
Are you SURE that it takes direction and accessibility into account when placing invaders?
Yes, they actually move around on the world map, none of the armies in dwarf fortress "teleport" anywhere, they can move in the same places adventurers can, which is why you don't get invasions if you embark on a secluded island.
In any case, the zones are almost done -- I just need to allow you to declare actual locations like the halls in human villages so you can claim your own site with a named group. Then a few more site tweaks, work order changes, bugs and done.
Are you SURE that it takes direction and accessibility into account when placing invaders?
What do you mean by accessibility? If an adventurer and his army of rescued children can walk over the mountains, why would a bunch of goblins not be able to? 40.x goblins found it tricky, sure, but that was a bug.
Yes, they actually move around on the world map, none of the armies in dwarf fortress "teleport" anywhere, they can move in the same places adventurers can, which is why you don't get invasions if you embark on a secluded island.
Are you SURE that it takes direction and accessibility into account when placing invaders?What do you mean by accessibility? If an adventurer and his army of rescued children can walk over the mountains, why would a bunch of goblins not be able to? 40.x goblins found it tricky, sure, but that was a bug.Yes, they actually move around on the world map, none of the armies in dwarf fortress "teleport" anywhere, they can move in the same places adventurers can, which is why you don't get invasions if you embark on a secluded island.
There are several different possibilities here that all boil down to the resolution (or "abstraction level") of the checks (an interesting question is how it checks that and when/if those flags get updated after the player changes something).
For example, consider a square of 9 world map tiles adjacent to each other, so they are indeed all accessible on that level of abstraction.
However let's assume if you "zoom in", only one tile actually permits physical movement to the middle world map tile (a narrow bridge for example) - the rest is blocked.
For the sake of the argument, let that entrance be in the north (Like a 'U').
So now, your fortress is in that middle tile and the invaders are to the south.
If the game only checks general accessibility, and then "teleports" the armies to your site, they would appear on the south edge of your fortress map. (old behavior IIRC)
If the game checks on a higher resolution, they would appear on the north edge of your embark area. ("direction and accessibility").
I'm wondering, what is the actual resolution of those checks: How does the game deal with different resolutions of the same obstacle? i.e. a U-wall/moat 1. on your embark area, 2. a U-shaped obstacle on the "travel map", 3. a U-shaped obstacle on world map scale (a peninsula for example).
In other words, does an army (or anyone else) have to physically move on each tile, or do they only have to physically move on the "travel map"? Can they then move through travel map tiles from west to east, even if a bunch of them are technically only accessible from the north (but consequently marked as 'accessible')?
What we don't know is whether the player built structures get updated to this screen. If it does then yes the player could make bridges, if it doesn't then no. But judging by how sites look in the fast travel screen the answer would be yes.If they do, I suspect it only applies to actual bridges and roads (as opposed to a "bridge" of constructed walls or somesuch), since local pathfinding is a bit much to expect at this scale.
[...]So how is a "travel map" tile checked for impassability?
That map of yours is at the wrong resolution, sites in the travel map are huge. So big in fact that the size you made your impassible objects would be considered an (relatively large) obstacle and they would take the pink path.[...]So how is a "travel map" tile checked for impassability?
Consider this image:
http://www.mediafire.com/view/j2uj7wjhvqs7c05/asd1.png (http://www.mediafire.com/view/j2uj7wjhvqs7c05/asd1.png)
A view of a "travel map". Nothing the player did, this is just what worldgen produced. One tile in the grid is one travel map tile.
Red and orange are small sites. Green is just meadow, forest. Grey are impassable obstacles (ocean, river, wall, whatever).
The big grey area is obviously marked as impassable, as the entire tile cannot be traveled on.
On the other hand, the thin grey is a very small, still impassable obstacle in the middle of a "travel map" tile. It's not visible from the travel map, only on "fortress mode resolution".
Note that, for example the bottom row of those tiles are technically passable on the west-east axis, but not on the north-south axis.
Does the game know this? Does it consider these tiles passable or impassable?
In other words, would an army use the light blue or pink path?
So, in a recent playthrough in adventure mode, I wandered into a large evil mountain biome then into some strange yellow clouds and was turned into a creeping mist husk.Interestingly someone recently reported something similar in fortress mode. An evil thrall left the map, then a while later it returned as part of a group of migrants. Probably the same issue.
My max speed wet from 2.5 to 3.999 and I was so fast I could jump over rivers, so I did. I then went on a rampage in the nearby human civ, and since the mist stuff was all over me, I infected many more people with creeping mist husk-ism I went on to kill over 500 people and became legendary in several skills. My "friends" who i infected (but wasnt in a party with) also got several kills on their own (some had over 30) . After my unfortunate death to bogeymen. I went into legends to look into how my buddies whom i infected held up, I noticed something odd, legends mode didn't label them as "creeping mist husks" though they still had their kills and they for some odd reason they still lived in the hamlets we destroyed (possibly by themselves) I thought this was odd so I created a new adventurer and found one of them hanging out in a house in one of the villages (killing any living things who went by) eventually killing me. It was still a thrall, but wasn't labeled as one in legends mode, is this a intended feature or a bug?
Also will people who get infected with this stuff ever lose their citizen status and rampage the world a bit like one would expect an evil thrall to do, the fact that they maintain their status as citizens in the hamlets they helped kill off is very odd and immersion breaking, and they didnt even get a reputation for killing either do you plan to remedy this?
About the invaders that is already a thing as of 2 major versions ago.
The world is alive now and invaders already travel on the map realistically. SO that is a thing already.
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:World_activities
Artifacts are definitely still on, you might just be unlucky.
There is a switch to disable artifacts. It's on by default, but if you've modified something it the file it's in you might have changed it by mistake. The switch is also exported in the LNP UI, if you're using that.It's also related to tiles discovered. You'll never get one if you play an above-ground fort.
How efficient are farms going to be in the future? Currently 200 dwarves can easily be fed with about four 5x5 farm plots without fertilizer, while in real life 2 humans need at least 10 square metres of farmland with additional foraging (not sure if this includes fertilization). Forts would be too small for farms this big. So if farming will be realistic thenwill trading with hillocks be necessary for maintaining a large fort?
Toady: Yeah, I think there's definitely that ... farming is definitely one of the things that's gotten very easy, and especially with the hill dwarves ... I think when the hill dwarves go in farming is going to ... that'll be its time to become much more difficult. It's kind of strange to have a completely self-sufficient fort without some work; it should be work, instead of just having one dude that can go off and grow two hundred food without thinking about it. That doesn't square with any kind of reality, and any kind of interest or any kind of fun of any kind, so I think that's definitely one of the big things ... I think it's too easy in terms of attacks ...
Threetoe: Ok, the next question comes from dhokarena56, and they ask: Do you have any plans for the expansion of farming in the near or further future? It's been noted that the farming system is one of the last system that produces free stuff with no drawback - do you have on the drawing board any plans for the expansion of the overall agricultural system?
Toady: So we don't have a timeline for it. You can see the notes on the dev page and of course that's supplemented by multiple forum threads that are pretty hefty on this topic. We're all for reforming farming. We kinda took a morale hit when we got rid of our Nile flood farming from the 2D version. That's very difficult to bring back into a 3D system. And so I just haven't gotten back to farming since then and it's only kinda gotten worse and worse over time. At some point we'll come back and clean that up though.
Threetoe: Yes, kind of reminds me of the water-for-booze question and it's just like, it would make the game twenty times as hard if you couldn't get mushrooms from nothing.
Toady: Yeah, and at the same time you know, people want a little bit of challenge when it comes to those systems. Hopefully not too annoying. But kind of interesting maybe you know, terrain based, that kind of thing.
Threetoe: It is too easy to...Yeah.
Toady: Yeah. So yes, we're definitely pro...Pro stuff. Pro new farming.
That map of yours is at the wrong resolution, sites in the travel map are huge. So big in fact that the size you made your impassible objects would be considered an (relatively large) obstacle and they would take the pink path.Yes, yes, I know, It was just an abstraction because it's easier to draw. Think of it as a fictional tiny site, or better yet forget sites altogether: it's just a specific point on the map.
So, in a recent playthrough in adventure mode, I wandered into a large evil mountain biome then into some strange yellow clouds and was turned into a creeping mist husk.Interestingly someone recently reported something similar in fortress mode. An evil thrall left the map, then a while later it returned as part of a group of migrants. Probably the same issue.
My max speed wet from 2.5 to 3.999 and I was so fast I could jump over rivers, so I did. I then went on a rampage in the nearby human civ, and since the mist stuff was all over me, I infected many more people with creeping mist husk-ism I went on to kill over 500 people and became legendary in several skills. My "friends" who i infected (but wasnt in a party with) also got several kills on their own (some had over 30) . After my unfortunate death to bogeymen. I went into legends to look into how my buddies whom i infected held up, I noticed something odd, legends mode didn't label them as "creeping mist husks" though they still had their kills and they for some odd reason they still lived in the hamlets we destroyed (possibly by themselves) I thought this was odd so I created a new adventurer and found one of them hanging out in a house in one of the villages (killing any living things who went by) eventually killing me. It was still a thrall, but wasn't labeled as one in legends mode, is this a intended feature or a bug?
Also will people who get infected with this stuff ever lose their citizen status and rampage the world a bit like one would expect an evil thrall to do, the fact that they maintain their status as citizens in the hamlets they helped kill off is very odd and immersion breaking, and they didnt even get a reputation for killing either do you plan to remedy this?
I could just write "snip" here but I want to be cool and different so I won't
Snippity snip snip snipple snippy
Do the community's efforts towards UI design make an overhaul any easier? Or is it mainly a coding dread / need to figure out what layout works best for you that holds it back? There's some really nice stuff in DFHack:They probably don't look nearly as nice at DF's default resolution, so I suspect that's a consideration.Spoiler: Pictures (click to show/hide)
"... We noticed that a lot of people were setting up this 'peasant class' of dwarves, unskilled dwarves, that were just set up for hauling. That should be a little less necessary now.
Threetoe: Except now we're going to be working with the last of these projects will be to implement new peasant classes of dwarves.
Toady: He he he. Yeah this is the kind of VPL change we were talking about. It should be exciting to see the status of your dwarves realized. And certain ones you'll be able to control more than others. Now there will be a circumstance under which you can control any dwarf to a large degree, and that's going to be the new 'Do This Now' prioritization for jobs, which will just snatch up the nearest dwarf that can do the job (like pulling a lever), and force them to do it. They'll drop what they're doing and save your fortress. Might stress them out a little bit, depending on the kind of dwarf, but you'll be able to do that finally. And furthermore we are mindful of things like the trading jobs, the harvest, and so on, and hopefully that'll be handled with the new job selection model overall.
We are trying to stay away from spreadsheets and numbers approaches that kind of open up every single job to be ranked, you know, according to different numbers for each dwarf or workshop because that is unmanageable when the number of dwarves get high.
Threetoe: Also, it's a hint where we're going with this, which is to get rid of VPL all together, eventually.
Toady: Yeah, we would really like to restrict VPL possibly to a smaller number of dwarves that are actually the types of dwarves you would be ordering around like that. And we're also aware of kind of the 'work crew' approaches that people have, and that will also be something that is under consideration when we do understand 'fortress-citizen' status a little better."
Also, as mentioned previously, they don't look to mods and dfhack for inspiration at all. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140544.msg6827217#msg6827217)
They read the suggestions board thoroughly. Most mods give players what they've been asking for, and generally players asking for stuff end up on the suggestions board at some point.Also, as mentioned previously, they don't look to mods and dfhack for inspiration at all. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140544.msg6827217#msg6827217)
Though there are times where I question the veracity of that statement. It seems highly likely that broad ideas at least could have resulted in at least looking at mods and thinking "hey, that's a good idea" :V
Are we ever going to get the old "Halt in the name of the Blankety Blanks!" bandit announcement back? Also, will kobolds ever be able to talk to other kobolds?
They read the suggestions board thoroughly. Most mods give players what they've been asking for, and generally players asking for stuff end up on the suggestions board at some point.Also, as mentioned previously, they don't look to mods and dfhack for inspiration at all. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140544.msg6827217#msg6827217)
Though there are times where I question the veracity of that statement. It seems highly likely that broad ideas at least could have resulted in at least looking at mods and thinking "hey, that's a good idea" :V
The question arises, in the farther future of Justice Arc development, how do you intend for cases of death under mysterious, or disputed circumstances to be sorted? Will there need to be an autopsy done by the Chief Medical Dwarf? Will there be a new elected or appointed Fortress Coroner position? Could the gods give us a sign?
You don't need to look any further than vampire accusations to see how the wheels of justice roll in DF. A murder investigation would go something like this:QuoteThe question arises, in the farther future of Justice Arc development, how do you intend for cases of death under mysterious, or disputed circumstances to be sorted? Will there need to be an autopsy done by the Chief Medical Dwarf? Will there be a new elected or appointed Fortress Coroner position? Could the gods give us a sign?
Well, autospy after a crime was something quite rare before modern times. I shouldn't expect it, even in cases of crime. Remember that DF is supposed to be during Medieval ages.
Well, autospy after a crime was something quite rare before modern times.
Dwarfs have a more "modern" set of ethics than Humans, who are closer to medival. It'd possible that Dwarfs are fine with autopsey, while the Humans think it's disgusting.We're still to get culture being random and changing. I wouldn't even say any of the ethics are set in stone apart from not caring about trees.
Autopsy is already a subject on the medical knowledge tree in-game. Given how dedicated Toady is to realism this seems to suggest the possibility of Dwarves performing autopsies at some point.
Since we now have procedurally generated artforms, values and instruments, what's going to be the next part of the game to be procedurally generated?
Autopsy is already a subject on the medical knowledge tree in-game. Given how dedicated Toady is to realism this seems to suggest the possibility of Dwarves performing autopsies at some point.
Good. I wish to know the cranial capacity of the modern typical elf, prior and post bashing them with a war-hammer.
Are demons supposed to be wandering the surface world in any capacity and attacking adventure mode NPC fortresses? Is this behavior a bug or a feuture?
Since we now have procedurally generated artforms, values and instruments, what's going to be the next part of the game to be procedurally generated?Recipes.
Dwarven logic dictates that opening up the skull gives them an effectively infinite cranial capacity, via being exposed to the open air. Ergo, bashing a elf's skull in only makes them smarter. o3oBut then they're just airheads. (https://youtu.be/aNK1mQfNeik?t=1m46s)
Sometimes they emerge and take over a human or goblin civ.
Sometimes they emerge and take over a human or goblin civ.
I am not talking about those demons, I am talking about groups of demons wandering into adventure mode sites in adventurer mode and going on the rampage.
That's not happening anymore. Unique demons only arise during "year 0" by raising their slade towers and thus forming a goblin civilization (and goblin civs only arise through that). The wandering demons (which seems to be related to adding modded demons and those fighting with generated ones from my experience) aren't historical unless they've killed enough demons during the fight that "catapulted" them up.Sometimes they emerge and take over a human or goblin civ.
I am not talking about those demons, I am talking about groups of demons wandering into adventure mode sites in adventurer mode and going on the rampage.
Sometimes they emerge and fail to take over a human or goblin Civ, resulting in wandering demons though it's rare.
Recipes and games are on hold. It's unlikely they're coming unstuck before the myth generator.Since we now have procedurally generated artforms, values and instruments, what's going to be the next part of the game to be procedurally generated?Recipes.
I have had a demon in at least version 40.01 that was just hanging around in a bandit camp, so it does happen sometimes. (only 1 demon though) I wish I had looked at the legends entry for it. Unless its civ crumbled or something?That's not happening anymore. Unique demons only arise during "year 0" by raising their slade towers and thus forming a goblin civilization (and goblin civs only arise through that). The wandering demons (which seems to be related to adding modded demons and those fighting with generated ones from my experience) aren't historical unless they've killed enough demons during the fight that "catapulted" them up.Sometimes they emerge and take over a human or goblin civ.
I am not talking about those demons, I am talking about groups of demons wandering into adventure mode sites in adventurer mode and going on the rampage.
Sometimes they emerge and fail to take over a human or goblin Civ, resulting in wandering demons though it's rare.Recipes and games are on hold. It's unlikely they're coming unstuck before the myth generator.Since we now have procedurally generated artforms, values and instruments, what's going to be the next part of the game to be procedurally generated?Recipes.
Sometimes they emerge and fail to take over a human or goblin Civ, resulting in wandering demons though it's rare.
Did you breach hell recently?
Also those sites exist regardless of whether you are in adventure mode you should really specify which kind of site. Since we have world activation. Actual "Adventurer sites" are in the next version and are sites actually built by the player.
That's not happening anymore. Unique demons only arise during "year 0" by raising their slade towers and thus forming a goblin civilization (and goblin civs only arise through that). The wandering demons (which seems to be related to adding modded demons and those fighting with generated ones from my experience) aren't historical unless they've killed enough demons during the fight that "catapulted" them up.
Is history even aware of mapgen properly, except for stuff like islands/rivers, etc? As in, do the actual properties of the tiles of the world affect it at all, not just various relevant bits of information e.g. evil? I haven't heard of them doing so.
Reply to Dragon, not a question.
I have had a demon in at least version 40.01 that was just hanging around in a bandit camp, so it does happen sometimes. (only 1 demon though) I wish I had looked at the legends entry for it. Unless its civ crumbled or something?Probably from a destroyed civ, or taken as prisoner at some point, yeah.
Is that a confirmed bug then?I think so. I'm not sure off-hand if it's on the bug tracker.
Do you plan to ever make the north and south have opposing seasons?I'm guessing you mean only when the regions have poles on both sides of the map right?
Perhaps the world is truely square in DF universe?
Perhaps the world is truely square in DF universe?
A square lying on the back of four elephants on the back of a giant tortoise, yeah.
I'd guess it would only logically occur in the instance of a worldgen having both poles. If it lacks a pole, then we could simply assume that the "world" is only the extent of the known world and not the entirety of the globe.
Any anomalies between the world size and the implied size of the globe (based on the presence of both poles) could either be abstracted away, or you could think of whatever desired excuse there is for the fact that a pocket-sized world could contain both poles while still having Earth-like gravity.
Then again, since the world in DF is always quite literally hollow (Hell and its delicious bottomless pits), this combined with the density of slade would allow for plenty of excuses to fudge the math in favor of ignoring any "how is this tiny planet still Earth-like" questions. :V
Pretty sure they're just planes, like that magic bucket that would shift your fort into the fireplane. Seems like these would just be small pockets being like 10-25 percent the size of the map existing along side. Though it might be cool if we could define them and have them linked via portals and summoning rituals.World turtles (and elephants) occur in real world myths, not just Discworld, so I wouldn't rule it out. Toady does a lot of reading in preparation for each new feature.
Disc world seems unliky but it might be a real myth.
"In a time before time, the Ethereal Kea tickled the Celestial Dingo, making him cough up saliva. The saliva became the oceans and rivers of the World."Pretty sure they're just planes, like that magic bucket that would shift your fort into the fireplane. Seems like these would just be small pockets being like 10-25 percent the size of the map existing along side. Though it might be cool if we could define them and have them linked via portals and summoning rituals.World turtles (and elephants) occur in real world myths, not just Discworld, so I wouldn't rule it out. Toady does a lot of reading in preparation for each new feature.
Disc world seems unliky but it might be a real myth.
Probably end up being hoary marmots most of the time...
I think the ability to enter new, physical planes inhabited by magical beings or something of the sort as a late-game thing would enormously expand the playability of the game, and a player's motivation to continue forward. I'd love to see some planes that are hellish and require late-game and others that are just magical and maybe require luck or adventuring to get to. Just my wishful thinking...
I think the ability to enter new, physical planes inhabited by magical beings or something of the sort as a late-game thing would enormously expand the playability of the game, and a player's motivation to continue forward. I'd love to see some planes that are hellish and require late-game and others that are just magical and maybe require luck or adventuring to get to. Just my wishful thinking...I myself would love to see atleast one type of plane that sort of goes the "eldritch, surreal horror" way. Like a "land of confusion" where nothing makes sense - bizarre, completely randomly generated creatures (even weirder than already existing titans or FBs) that aren't neccessarily hostile and could be adopted by dwarves, and strange plants, i.e fleshy organic trees that sprout giant bubble-like fruit with elephants or other animals inside them, etc. Potentially a wandering "deity" megabeast that holds the dimension together.
Pretty sure they're just planes, like that magic bucket that would shift your fort into the fireplane. Seems like these would just be small pockets being like 10-25 percent the size of the map existing along side. Though it might be cool if we could define them and have them linked via portals and summoning rituals.Actually toady has said they could be quite big.He has even mentioned the possibility of alternate universes.(though they may only be a couple z levels tall, to save memory) Also, we will have 64 bit at that point so lots of memory available.
Disc world seems unliky but it might be a real myth.
The real world doesn't have necromancers coming around to rip Uncle Fester out of his grave for nefarious purposes...
The real world doesn't have necromancers coming around to rip Uncle Fester out of his grave for nefarious purposes...
Non sequitur.
Cremation is a good choice, as is burial at locations that cannot be accessed easily, as well as guarded and trapped tombs/necropolises/catacombs. Unmarked burial would work as well, unless necros have means to locate these sites (and the neighbor may very well sell the location of your site to a necro if so, so secret unmarked burial may be a thing). You might also consider some kind of poison pill where either the body is laced with something that will destroy it if raised, or something that will keep it down (stakes through vampire hearts style, but not easily removed by a necro, or at least requiring the necro to dig out the body pysically, as opposed to raising the body to have it dig itself out).The real world doesn't have necromancers coming around to rip Uncle Fester out of his grave for nefarious purposes...
Non sequitur.
Much sequitur in fact. I would assume that the threat of necromancy would have a considerable effect on a culture's burial practices. If anything, if it got particularly bad you'd think that cremation would gain particular popularity.
Cremation is a good choice, as is burial at locations that cannot be accessed easily, as well as guarded and trapped tombs/necropolises/catacombs. Unmarked burial would work as well, unless necros have means to locate these sites (and the neighbor may very well sell the location of your site to a necro if so, so secret unmarked burial may be a thing). You might also consider some kind of poison pill where either the body is laced with something that will destroy it if raised, or something that will keep it down (stakes through vampire hearts style, but not easily removed by a necro, or at least requiring the necro to dig out the body pysically, as opposed to raising the body to have it dig itself out).The real world doesn't have necromancers coming around to rip Uncle Fester out of his grave for nefarious purposes...
Non sequitur.
Much sequitur in fact. I would assume that the threat of necromancy would have a considerable effect on a culture's burial practices. If anything, if it got particularly bad you'd think that cremation would gain particular popularity.
On the other hand, necromancers tend to get corpses en masse from recent battlefields in worldgen, so maybe old corpses are safe. This is all assuming necromancers are known and common of course.
I think the ability to enter new, physical planes inhabited by magical beings or something of the sort as a late-game thing would enormously expand the playability of the game, and a player's motivation to continue forward. I'd love to see some planes that are hellish and require late-game and others that are just magical and maybe require luck or adventuring to get to. Just my wishful thinking...Step 1. Kill a lot of elves.
Right now all outside tombs that exist in the world are pyramids, you said in df talk 14 that your algorithm knows how to fill up any shape with rooms (including rounded areas) So my question is when do you plan to add burial mounds and burial castles?
Its fun to explore pyramids, but the occasional shape change/variance would make exploring the worlds various tombs much more interesting.
Also do you plan to add isolated tombs and outside graveyards? These do exist in the real world, so why not the df world?
... the humans civilizations for example, it would be lame if they all had the same architecture, once I refresh my memory on what are the bits and pieces that make up the different architectures, what kind of different buildings there are and all that kind of stuff, they should make choices, then, and be able to have the towns have different characters to them when they make their walls or just their houses and various castles and little parapet things, and little spikes that stick out of the top with little flags on them, and minarets and all that kind of thing or whatever. As much diversity as you've got in the real world, as much as we can convey with a tile based format, that stuff should come across, it's one of those things where you have to engage in the project at some point and actually do it, and it's hard to time things which are superfluous in a sense, but they should be done. At first things will look vanilla, just as we get people to have walls properly and moats and tapestries and rugs and things, just making the towns look better, but as we get enough information to allow them to diversify then they should be able to do that, hopefully.
I think the ability to enter new, physical planes inhabited by magical beings or something of the sort as a late-game thing would enormously expand the playability of the game, and a player's motivation to continue forward. I'd love to see some planes that are hellish and require late-game and others that are just magical and maybe require luck or adventuring to get to. Just my wishful thinking...Step 1. Kill a lot of elves.
Step 2. Locate the portal to the elven afterlife plane.
Step 3. Inconveniently timed drink, meal and sleep.
Step 4. Equip an army and storm the elven afterlife plane.
Step 5. Kill the same elves all over again.
Step 6. See if there's a portal to an elven afterafterlife...
"Wait, I can fix this..."I think the ability to enter new, physical planes inhabited by magical beings or something of the sort as a late-game thing would enormously expand the playability of the game, and a player's motivation to continue forward. I'd love to see some planes that are hellish and require late-game and others that are just magical and maybe require luck or adventuring to get to. Just my wishful thinking...Step 1. Kill a lot of elves.
Step 2. Locate the portal to the elven afterlife plane.
Step 3. Inconveniently timed drink, meal and sleep.
Step 4. Equip an army and storm the elven afterlife plane.
Step 5. Kill the same elves all over again.
Step 6. See if there's a portal to an elven afterafterlife...
What happens if they just reincarnate into animals or even dwarfs?
Right now all outside tombs that exist in the world are pyramids, you said in df talk 14 that your algorithm knows how to fill up any shape with rooms (including rounded areas) So my question is when do you plan to add burial mounds and burial castles?
Its fun to explore pyramids, but the occasional shape change/variance would make exploring the worlds various tombs much more interesting.
Also do you plan to add isolated tombs and outside graveyards? These do exist in the real world, so why not the df world?
Regarding the shapes of tombs, more shapes already exist beyond just a pyramid. I have encountered square and rectangle tombs and some of them have "towers" protruding from them at various corners of the previously mentioned shapes.
The circular shapes seems to be reserved for vaults and dark fortresses. But, as noted above, there is already a great variance of different architectural shapes for tombs. I would argue that it's the towers and keeps that are more standard at this point in time.
For what it's worth, from DF talk #8:Quote... the humans civilizations for example, it would be lame if they all had the same architecture, once I refresh my memory on what are the bits and pieces that make up the different architectures, what kind of different buildings there are and all that kind of stuff, they should make choices, then, and be able to have the towns have different characters to them when they make their walls or just their houses and various castles and little parapet things, and little spikes that stick out of the top with little flags on them, and minarets and all that kind of thing or whatever. As much diversity as you've got in the real world, as much as we can convey with a tile based format, that stuff should come across, it's one of those things where you have to engage in the project at some point and actually do it, and it's hard to time things which are superfluous in a sense, but they should be done. At first things will look vanilla, just as we get people to have walls properly and moats and tapestries and rugs and things, just making the towns look better, but as we get enough information to allow them to diversify then they should be able to do that, hopefully.
Thank you however:
Really? I've not seen many "non-pyramid" tombs and I grave-rob alot so since they apparently exist they are still rather rare
.
Another problem is that they are all shoved in one "tomb area" and I think there should be more smaller perhaps, isolated tombs. Around the world, perhaps for certain hist figs. People don't always shove all the tombs in one area, it happens often but not all the time, and we have no graveyards graveyards existed in the time frame toady is sticking with for df! Also, we have no burial mounds. I really want burial mounds. And those are a very common kind of ancient tomb.
I'm sure he will get to it with the "treasure hunter" arc, but I would like to hear what he says about it.
So, the positive side here is that the new development page has a section for treasure hunters, and that's when we're going to go back and make sure that we're getting the proper ruins from ...
With the ruins, ruins just kind of decay over time, but there's no sediment laid down, so things don't ever become buried, and I think it's crucial to bury things, especially in a game that involves this much digging. So those are planned, if you look at core sixty seven there's ruins there, core sixty eight is graveyards and tombs which is related, core sixty nine is ole battlefields, and core seventy is fortress ruins; how that specifically relates to your own fortress and the ruins there. So those four core items are all meant to address that kind of thing.
After all, a "travel map tile" is either passable or not. If there were more information than a binary flag, the check would have to have a higher resolution, no?Armies move at full travel speed on roads/open areas, they move slower across things like the walls around large towns/cities, and the larger areas of buildings tend to slow anything that diverges from the road quite a bit.
I have not added any modded demons, banshee of soot is one of the generated types, I still have no clue how it got to the surface. I haven't revealed hell in this world at all.That's not happening anymore. Unique demons only arise during "year 0" by raising their slade towers and thus forming a goblin civilization (and goblin civs only arise through that). The wandering demons (which seems to be related to adding modded demons and those fighting with generated ones from my experience) aren't historical unless they've killed enough demons during the fight that "catapulted" them up.Sometimes they emerge and take over a human or goblin civ.
I am not talking about those demons, I am talking about groups of demons wandering into adventure mode sites in adventurer mode and going on the rampage.
Sometimes they emerge and fail to take over a human or goblin Civ, resulting in wandering demons though it's rare.
Will the Myth generator actually be leading to the Gods actually existing and stomping around and all that?I believe it's been said there would be some kind of slider or setting where the strength of magic and religion is determined (and I'd guess they would be separate), with the possibility to make gods completely unresponsive (basically our reality) at one end, and cursing and granting boons left, right, and center at the other. I don't think they'll be allowed to enter the world, though, at least not now.
If nothing else, you'd have gods getting decapitated by thrown small animals and the like, which would make history somewhat unusual.
I've seen people roam back and forth like that before on the travel map. It's always weird when I bump into someone traveling that I've met traveling before.
Will we ever get more spheres or secrets? I'm not greening this because I'm pretty sure this has already been answered.
Will we ever get more spheres or secrets? I'm not greening this because I'm pretty sure this has already been answered.Yes. Toady has mentioned a few times that more spheres are likely to come into play (such as here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=60554.msg2069500;topicseen#msg2069500)), and the oft-mentioned myth generator also generates styles of magic, which presumably can take the form of secrets.
I wouldnt say thats weird, more like "consistent"Mean weird as in halfway across a 129x129 in different directions.
[MAX_EDGE:1000] no swords until you can pick mats
Some questions about the future development (Myth/artifacts/magic):Toady can probably provide more in depth answers (and probably did at GDC) but as far as I understand it, the creation of the universe is unique to each world and each races affinity with magic is related directly to that creation process. Clowns and such are also part of the process, so again, could well be unique in each world. In addition each race has their own interpretation of the creation myth.
They are not suggestion, because i'm not necessarily "asking" for this, but more that I know to have an answer.
Will we ever have adamantine items in non-player fortress mode ? (trading threads, or adamantine socks ? It could be a great incentive to find and trade with deep fortresses in adventure mode !)
If yes, could we see some dwarf fortresses in Legend mode collapsing because they dug too far into adamantine ?
More generally, is the information about the circus and the clowns something people (Dwarves or others) know or not ?
Do people in DF believe in myths or are they just legends and accepted as such ? Are there some people believing, while others don't ?
Will the myths explain the existence of the circus and the clown (and adamantine, perhaps), too ?
In your plans are Humans, elves and gobelins able to "make" artifacts or is it limited to Dwarves ?
And about magic (I don't know if you have thought about it yet, but still curious), are all intelligent races be able to do magic (human/elves/goblins/dwarves), and the same types of magic (some civilizations, limited to some types, of magic, in relation with things such as where they live or the gods they worship...).
Could other intelligent races perform magic too (dragons ? Some specific titans ? Fire-based creatures ?).
Would some non-intelligent races or "location" could have an affinity with magic without really controlling it (faeries, for example?), or even creatures based on magic ?
Thanks, Toady !
Snip
Snip
As far as the magic part goes, check out Cado's Magical Journey (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/story/tt_journey.html). While I of course recommend reading it all, (and the rest of Threetoe's stories, it's an oft-overlooked goldmine of info) at the bottom there's an analysis by Toady and Threetoe shedding some light on how they envision magic to work as well as a little bit about afterlives and other planes, supernatural beings etc.
Will there ever be randomly-generated relationships between gods? How about personalities for them? I want my dwarves' pantheons to be as colorful as the Greeks'!
Urist McPrincess cancels kill bull, cannot find path.Will there ever be randomly-generated relationships between gods? How about personalities for them? I want my dwarves' pantheons to be as colorful as the Greeks'!
Urist McLena, Queen cancels mandate slade mugs: interrupted by swan.
A lot of the effects in that story can be replicated to various extents with dfhack and modding, launch for telekinesis, spd 9.9 for the time-slowing, the healing with a recuperation jacking ability which could now have increasing side-effects with use, advfort can let you "open" a wall, my artifact crit/onepunch script does the "force your fist through the future" effect well.
Will there ever be randomly-generated relationships between gods? How about personalities for them? I want my dwarves' pantheons to be as colorful as the Greeks'!
Quote from: InariusIn relation to religion ,is any sort mythology generation (god X father of god Y, genealogy tree, relationships between gods like in most mythology or things like this) an idea you are working on, or will gods remain independant from each other ?We've been toying around with a test generator and have quite a bit lined up now for the world gen artifact releases which will follow the tavern releases. All sorts of new stuff should make it in.
Will we ever have adamantine items in non-player fortress mode ? (trading threads, or adamantine socks ? It could be a great incentive to find and trade with deep fortresses in adventure mode !)I recall a post by Toady where he stated that Dug-too-deep events for worldgen forts almost happened during one release. Ah, here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=30026.msg853384;topicseen#msg853384). As such, it should remain on the table, as far as adamantine and demons exist in the post-myth-generator worlds.
If yes, could we see some dwarf fortresses in Legend mode collapsing because they dug too far into adamantine ?
Will the myths explain the existence of the circus and the clown (and adamantine, perhaps), too ?One of the screenshots above mentions Dorania Demons (along with an individual of those), and the preview video even had two groups named Demons, so I think it's safe to say yes here.
In your plans are Humans, elves and gobelins able to "make" artifacts or is it limited to Dwarves ?Artifacts won't be unique to dwarves (though strange moods probably will remain so):
And about magic (I don't know if you have thought about it yet, but still curious), are all intelligent races be able to do magic (human/elves/goblins/dwarves), and the same types of magic (some civilizations, limited to some types, of magic, in relation with things such as where they live or the gods they worship...).
the only answer is 'it depends what the myth generator comes up with'
Also why are "Clowns" still "Clowns"? I think at this point they have more then stepped into common knowledge.
It's been over a year since the last Dwarf Fortress Talk. It'd be great to hear one of those sometime if you guys can find the time.
Also why are "Clowns" still "Clowns"? I think at this point they have more then stepped into common knowledge.
What with them being in Dark Fortresses, appearing on the legends list, and being smack dab right there in the myth generator to come.
At least I saw less dorfs and Urists recently.Hey, I have an actual adventurer dwarf race called dorfs and I never get sick of hearing "Greetings, dorf." as I wander around.
I guess clown is just old habbit when you are not sure whether you should use spoiler code, those who understand it understand it anyway.
It seems HFS is more or less official, since HFIDs are used for associating angels and divine metals with deities.That's Historical Figure ID, though, not Hidden Fun ID. :P
That's Historical Figure ID, though, not Hidden Fun ID. :P
Will the myth generator going to have impact at gameplay time during adventure mode ?
I mean gameplay impact in the sense of by example thein opposition to being just dialogue description from a NPC ?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And villians who will plot to steal artifacts from you (and elsewhere). No more, "Smaug the Dragon is our greatest foe, in his spite he stole a pigtail sock."(hopefully).
It's been over a year since the last Dwarf Fortress Talk. It'd be great to hear one of those sometime if you guys can find the time.
That isn't a question or Lime green.
I think Toady responds to either, but standard green is really hard to read on some monitors.It's been over a year since the last Dwarf Fortress Talk. It'd be great to hear one of those sometime if you guys can find the time.
That isn't a question or Lime green.
A post I saw said "Green" and it's something I'd like a response to. Fixed the color.
In the podcast Toady gave the same reply he's given the past few times he's been asked about Dftalk. Nice but takes time, requires thinking about topics.Would love this.
Still, if the GDC talk video doesn't go up for free any time soon a chat about myth-gen would be much appreciated.
It's been over a year since the last Dwarf Fortress Talk. It'd be great to hear one of those sometime if you guys can find the time.
That isn't a question or Lime green.
A post I saw said "Green" and it's something I'd like a response to. Fixed the color.
Because clowns are scary.Pennywise and candy?
They float!Because clowns are scary.Pennywise and candy?
I have always thought that these terms (candy, HFS, clowns, etc.) were something fun and quite original."The Circus" is also the nickname of MI6, though that may well be a coincidence.
Will dwarven merchants ever haul their wares on the backs of dralthas?
Will dwarven merchants ever haul their wares on the backs of dralthas?
Didn't Toady say something about sieges being able to dig through stuff in future updates? Wouldn't that imply this could happen as well?Will dwarven merchants ever haul their wares on the backs of dralthas?
Somewhat related: Will we ever see caravans and sieges come from the caverns instead of above ground? Will we ever be able to start a fortress in the caverns and have to dig up to the surface, instead of starting on the surface and digging down to the caverns?
They float!Because clowns are scary.Pennywise and candy?
They float!Because clowns are scary.Pennywise and candy?
They all float down here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPdDdC4go6c)
Anyway, has anyone has a video of Toady's talk at the GDC ?
Is there a limit to the number of books one person can write? There seems to be.what?
But I've seen elven scholars write a book every year and then suddenly stop and do nothing for the next 400 years.
Do you ever envision doing something similar with fighting styles as you've done with artistic forms? (Martial arts)Yes. (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html)
Combat styles
- Combat styles involving weapons or natural attacks with associated stances and moves
- Ability to learn moves, etc. from others with whom you have a high enough reputation
- Certain moves may only be available as specific counters, while others might just be regular attacks
- Ability to create new moves/styles when highly skilled
Unfortunately, the GDC talk video will (most likely) end up behind a pay wall for the time being. We'll have to contend with the information from those tweets and the preview video for now.Anyway, has anyone has a video of Toady's talk at the GDC ?
Would love to hear what he was talking about only saw that picture of the myths.
Do you ever envision doing something similar with fighting styles as you've done with artistic forms? (Martial arts)Yes. (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html)QuoteCombat styles
- Combat styles involving weapons or natural attacks with associated stances and moves
- Ability to learn moves, etc. from others with whom you have a high enough reputation
- Certain moves may only be available as specific counters, while others might just be regular attacks
- Ability to create new moves/styles when highly skilled
Ah, but we hardly need such while we have Kisat Dur (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148015.0).But I want my enemies to use Kisat Dur on me.
Some people like to spank, and some like to be spanked.Ah, but we hardly need such while we have Kisat Dur (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148015.0).But I want my enemies to use Kisat Dur on me.
It's more of a "I want my enemies to have a fair chance" sort of thing.
Will there ever be a visible sign of pregnancy?In the case of "will there ever" questions, the answer is more often than not a "yeah, maybe, no timeline" if it sounds reasonable, and in this case I would bet that it will eventually come around, just so you can pick out which of your dwarves is pregnant, or note a woman in adventure mode is pregnant and give her a blessing from the pregnancy god or whatever.
Is the myth generator able to invent reasoning for gods having the particular spheres they do?
The creation myth generator was very well-received, and I look forward to getting it into the game as soon as I can so you can all create worlds with this new foundation. First we need to get this release done! I'm continuing with the last steps of adventure site creation now.
I definitely look forward to seeing what the game's logic is for giving me a god of poetry, writing, and death.That's nothing - I want to see the logic behind a god of revelry, family, rainbows, death and chaos.
Anyway, will we eventually see in-game effects of pulping besides just the flavor text? By that I mean, if a blunt attack causes a creatures head to "explode into gore", will we see an explosion of eyes, teeth and skull fragments, similarly to what happens when teeth are punched out?I asked that one already and I think the answer was "maybe". But go ahead, it might be a different answer now.
If one of a god's spheres is Chaos, any other combination of spheres is justified, because chaos.Alright, replace "chaos" with "suicide" then.
I definitely look forward to seeing what the game's logic is for giving me a god of poetry, writing, and death.Odin.
If one of a god's spheres is Chaos, any other combination of spheres is justified, because chaos.
Anyway, will we eventually see in-game effects of pulping besides just the flavor text? By that I mean, if a blunt attack causes a creatures head to "explode into gore", will we see an explosion of eyes, teeth and skull fragments, similarly to what happens when teeth are punched out?
Anyway, will we eventually see in-game effects of pulping besides just the flavor text? By that I mean, if a blunt attack causes a creatures head to "explode into gore", will we see an explosion of eyes, teeth and skull fragments, similarly to what happens when teeth are punched out?
A god aligned with chaos and decay might switch up it's other spheres occasionally, or pick their spheres at random or specifically choose the ones not covered by other gods.
Besides that, the meaning of "chaos" is not clearly defined in-game, so it could reflect that interpretation or possibly a mad or trickster god. Toady could go either way in the future.
The opposite of randomness is predictability. Predictability is aligned with order.
Toady do you plan to improve NPC dwarven fortress generation, right now they are very random, and hard to navigate do you plan to make them more navigable in the future?You were expecting a trap-filled corridor followed by a magma chamber? I think it would be hard to make those forts navigable without making them all seem cut from the same pattern.
I am aware that you can use travel mode and < and > to go back up to the surface, but it is very hard to get out of forts if you don't do this.
You were expecting a trap-filled corridor followed by a magma chamber? I think it would be hard to make those forts navigable without making them all seem cut from the same pattern.
Personally I would expect a less chaotic layout, where you can reasonably find a main stairway. :VIt's kinda funny how this conversation is on a completely different topic, and yet is still about randomness vs. predictability.
Toady could make them more navigable by having a main multilevel hallway in the middle with the rooms branching from that to the sides and by shooting out smaller 1 wide hallways to the sides so everything natturally leads to the main hallway. I love procedural generation . However this might make forts too similair I suppose even though this is how I build my forts.You were expecting a trap-filled corridor followed by a magma chamber? I think it would be hard to make those forts navigable without making them all seem cut from the same pattern.Personally I would expect a less chaotic layout, where you can reasonably find a main stairway. :VIt's kinda funny how this conversation is on a completely different topic, and yet is still about randomness vs. predictability.
Why is it that worldgen forts never dig down deeper than the first cavern layer?No, they dig all the way to the magma sea, they just wall up the caverns.
Have you actually seen this happen? I've never done anything in Adventure Mode, so I only think that worldgen forts only breach the first cavern becauseWhy is it that worldgen forts never dig down deeper than the first cavern layer?No, they dig all the way to the magma sea, they just wall up the caverns.
But why don't they reclaim their old sites once they're below that threshold again?
But why don't they reclaim their old sites once they're below that threshold again?Pretty sure they do if they have the spare dwarves and feel like it.
Will npc adventurers get any site building skills during this cycle? Would be nice to run into a monster hunter's mountain lodge full of Forgotten Beast bone figurines.
So how deep will the magic systems be, will it be as simple (and might I add, boring) as a "create bucket of water" button.Gonna add onto this, though it probably has been asked before - will we see artifacts that allow for magical abilities?
Or will it be as complicated as a custom spell creator based on the worlds rules like "custom spell" -> "I want to create fire" -> "fire ball" ->"shoot it"-> " and I want it to be blue" alright game: " cost : an entire arm" y or n . "Save template"
Or will it be somewhere in the middle?
Cado's magical journey is a good example of a complex magic system based on rules that seems fun.
If such artifacts exist, then the PC better be able to use them.Would be pointless if we couldn't. With the new site building I'd definitely make my own cult dedicated to seeking out such artifacts (should there be multiple ones within a world) and unleashing them all at once.
So how deep will the magic systems be, will it be as simple (and might I add, boring) as a "create bucket of water" button.Cado's Magical Journey is what they want the magic system to be like.
Or will it be as complicated as a custom spell creator based on the worlds rules like "custom spell" -> "I want to create fire" -> "fire ball" ->"shoot it"-> " and I want it to be blue" alright game: " cost : an entire arm" y or n . "Save template"
Or will it be somewhere in the middle?
Cado's magical journey is a good example of a complex magic system based on rules that seems fun.
Have you ever seen the Potion Miscibility Table from AD&D or the Magical Item Interaction Table from Rolemaster? :)If such artifacts exist, then the PC better be able to use them.Would be pointless if we couldn't. With the new site building I'd definitely make my own cult dedicated to seeking out such artifacts (should there be multiple ones within a world) and unleashing them all at once.
And hopefully, if the development notes are up to date, you won't be the only one in the world with that idea. An organic process that actually leads naturally to memorable villains who become the player's nemeses will be pretty cool.If such artifacts exist, then the PC better be able to use them.Would be pointless if we couldn't. With the new site building I'd definitely make my own cult dedicated to seeking out such artifacts (should there be multiple ones within a world) and unleashing them all at once.
Each civ has a site cap, don't they?
Have you ever seen the Potion Miscibility Table from AD&D or the Magical Item Interaction Table from Rolemaster? :)I haven't actually :E
And hopefully, if the development notes are up to date, you won't be the only one in the world with that idea. An organic process that actually leads naturally to memorable villains who become the player's nemeses will be pretty cool.Yeah, that's what I meant by cults seeking such artifacts out. That'd be amazing to actually have randomly-generated villains in the world.
...actually.Each civ has a site cap, don't they?
No, the whole world has a site cap; there is no per civ site cap. :)
[MAX_STARTING_CIV_NUMBER:25]
[MAX_POP_NUMBER:15000]
[MAX_SITE_POP_NUMBER:100]
The relationship between max pop and max site pop sets a cap per civ as I recall.Yup, as I said a page or two back, you can do many of the effects from the story now via modding/dfhack/both. Some aren't really possible to simulate currently (like, I can make anyone hurtle across the screen into a wall and explode if I want, but making an item fly controllably into my hand? not yet, though perhaps with the combat style expansion we'll get projectile catching options) and some are easier than others (the slowing time/megapunching, as well as cumulative side effects via syndrome concentration are both pretty straightforward modding exercises now) but it's easy enough to picture things like the dancing "move to x" interface, perhaps one using a cursor to trace shapes in real time, the "continue or move to interrupt" pacing, and so forth.So how deep will the magic systems be, will it be as simple (and might I add, boring) as a "create bucket of water" button.Cado's Magical Journey is what they want the magic system to be like.
Or will it be as complicated as a custom spell creator based on the worlds rules like "custom spell" -> "I want to create fire" -> "fire ball" ->"shoot it"-> " and I want it to be blue" alright game: " cost : an entire arm" y or n . "Save template"
Or will it be somewhere in the middle?
Cado's magical journey is a good example of a complex magic system based on rules that seems fun.
Will magic enable Elves to create metal weapons and armor or will they be able tp get their own magical enchanted metal that they can craft into what they need?
Will philosophers and poets be able to create their own myths or adept other cultures to their own?
Will magic enable Elves to create metal weapons and armor or will they be able tp get their own magical enchanted metal that they can craft into what they need?Aside from what Random_Dragon said about them lacking technological advancements, I think the more likely solution would be them getting special, unique types of wood that have similar effectiveness to different metals.
Will philosophers and poets be able to create their own myths or adept other cultures to their own?
How is Scamps doing?A Scamps Activity Liveblog would be ideal.
How is Scamps doing?A Scamps Activity Liveblog would be ideal.
Scamps allows Toady to post once in a while. You want this cat to submit to being photographed as well?How is Scamps doing?A Scamps Activity Liveblog would be ideal.
Or a picture or whatever.
Scamps featured in full leg scratching glory in a Tweet when Toady got back from the gdc. No photo sadly.How is Scamps doing?A Scamps Activity Liveblog would be ideal.
Or a picture or whatever.
Civilization | Race | Wars started 1-299 | Wars started 300-304 | Status |
The Late Knives | Dwarves | 1 | 7 | Active |
The Demon of Speech | Goblins | 1 | 42 | Active |
The Union of Paper | Humans | 4 | N/A | Dead |
The Thorn of Playing | Elves | 3 | N/A | Dead |
The Sweetness of Gloss | Elves | 3 | 9 | Active |
The Sling of Smoothness | Dwarves | 0 | 29 | Active |
The Grapes-empires of Shadow | Humans | 3 | N/A | Dead |
The Lie of Prices | Goblins | 4 | N/A | Dead |
The Shaken Gate | Dwarves | 1 | 1 | Player |
The Growths of Embracing | Elves | 1 | 24 | Active |
The Lurid Devil | Goblins | 1 | 67 | Active |
The Blameless Kingdoms | Humans | 1 | N/A | Dead |
The Ram of Diversions | Elves | 3 | N/A | Dead |
The Nation of Chastity | Humans | 7 | 18 | Active |
The Squashed Arches | Dwarves | 0 | 19 | Active |
The Pure Sea | Elves | 14 | 7 | Active |
The Staff of Weakness | Dwarves | 6 | 12 | Active |
The Furious Realm | Humans | 3 | N/A | Exile |
Let's see... wrapped up adventurer site creation. They are claimable by player entities and retire-in-able, so it all seems to be working, but I'm sure it'll be an entertainly bumpy ride on this first release. The XML dump provides exact site rectangles now. Next up, I want to bring manager work orders into line with the last release's job detail settings, and a few other quality of life issues (removing the 30 limit, etc).
I know it's a big task, and yeah, it'll take some time out of the schedule, and sure, it doesn't fit the theme of the next arc ...Bugfixes are still on the schedule for this release (see the 03/07/2016 devlog), and rarely are on theme for the next arc (and the plan is that before that next arc, at least an attempt at 64-bit will be made, so possibly at least one more release after this before the artifacts section). Whether those specific bugs will be handled is another question, though.
The Lie of Prices
Sometimes I think Dwarf Fortress is a lesson in why you don't use direct translationsQuoteThe Lie of Prices
Or perhaps "The Lie of Sacrifice"
Or "The Illusion of Sacrifice"
Or "The Illusion of Gold"
Yeah, I was wondering if he was really just going to continue fixing up merchant bugs or if he was now ready to replace them altogether, something he said he put off doing this time because it would take so long due to very old code).I know it's a big task, and yeah, it'll take some time out of the schedule, and sure, it doesn't fit the theme of the next arc ...Bugfixes are still on the schedule for this release (see the 03/07/2016 devlog), and rarely are on theme for the next arc (and the plan is that before that next arc, at least an attempt at 64-bit will be made, so possibly at least one more release after this before the artifacts section). Whether those specific bugs will be handled is another question, though.
I know it's a big task, and yeah, it'll take some time out of the schedule, and sure, it doesn't fit the theme of the next arc but...merchants destroying masterworks? Invisible merchants? Merchants and their wagons spamming the citizen lists upon fortress unretirement? It appears that there's something fundamentally incompatible with the way merchants work (and their old, old code which you've mentioned from time to time) and the way the world works now. And it seems to be getting worse.B...b...but I want vandal ghost ninja titans!
I guess it might make sense thematically, but are you going to wait until the economy arc to replace them, or are you considering replacing them sooner with something like the current visitor mechanics?
many myth questions which I attempt to address with a rambling reply
Quote from: Max^TMas excited as I am at the thought of being able to dig/channel/ramp without dfhack, I must ask if you have any plans to add deconstruction tasks? Though I'm not sure they would be what I was hoping for given the site restrictions, as I mostly find myself wishing I could take apart the wall of a library to get the lagfest scholars out, or open blocked paths from underground forts/dark fortresses/vaults.Quote from: Max^TMwill we be able to disassemble our own constructions and free up materials for reuse later on?
What part(s) of a general's personality dictate(s) their actions/effectiveness?
I understand you aren't actually re-doing site maps right now, but will the changes you're working on for sites that cross between map tiles mean anything for cities in the future? Can cities be larger if they don't need to worry about map tiles? Are there other roadblocks to cities taking up the same space that several clustered-together villages do now?
Are there any plans to add a stress-reaction equivalent to going catatonic? It stands out a bit in that the existing forms of insanity all got fleshed out with tantrum-equivalents of their own, while the new type of permanent affliction didn't get an equivalent. Or was there a particular reason for stress-vulnerable dwarves not having a comparable temporary affliction?
As of this coming release (.07) will carpentry workshops built in player fortresses be usable by adventurers? Or is there some kind of code difference between workshops built in fort mode and adventure mode since the later are probably more temporary and the former are really old code?
Are there any plans to make other existing workshops that occur in world gen or player fortresses available to adventurers, or will that kind of thing be put off until you decide on the final configuration for adventure mode crafting?
How closely together can adventure mode sites be placed? If you put two next to each other can you build to their edges or do they have a one tile gap prohibiting construction as in fort mode?
With map tile boundaries about to fall, can we expect similar limitations/hard-coding to disappear as well?
Do you expect, or did you already think about problems, roadblockers and obstacles regarding these? In other words, are there limitations where you think "it's just a matter of writing the code", and others where you just don't see a way to lift a restriction without major problematic implications and consequences?
I'm thinking about things like not being able to build/designate most things on the outermost tiles of your site, changing the dimensions of a site after defining it (for example increasing size on reclaiming; or decreasing size, "splitting" the site in two), overlapping sites, and similar restrictions.
This can probably be answered by anyone with a better overview of the way DF currently works (because I think technically, you can do these things already), but I'll green it, just in case.
In the past, you could connect an isolated site (for example, embarking on a remote continent) by concatenating "dummy sites" on locations you can normally not embark on with 3rd party tools: embark, abandon immediately, just so the game thinks this is a reachable site. If you'd do that all the way to your isolated site, you would then get migrants, caravans and so on.
IIRC, this behavior changed when actors started to physically move on the world map.
When adventure mode crafting/constructing/digging will be expanded, we could already theoretically build a bridge over an otherwise unpassable border (a small ocean for example). You could also do the opposite, and build a very long wall, creating a barrier. Does the game recognize these site changes already in terms of where actors are allowed to move? If so, all of them, and on all abstraction layers? Or are only some limited by player-made barriers? Can you for example pass an impassable wall by quick traveling over it?
How are insurrections calculated? Does the number of hearthpeople play a factor? Does it work differently with adventurer lords?
Will moods ever result in new items and even one off workshops (like a big magic magma forge from a possessed dwarf that causes some of the dwarfs that work it to add to a cursed armor and go insane soon after) being created?
When might it be that hydras regenerate quickly and even grow back heads as well as forgotten beasts made of fire and even blobs not dying in one hit?
My max speed wet from 2.5 to 3.999 and I was so fast I could jump over rivers, so I did. I then went on a rampage in the nearby human civ, and since the mist stuff was all over me, I infected many more people with creeping mist husk-ism I went on to kill over 500 people and became legendary in several skills. My "friends" who i infected (but wasnt in a party with) also got several kills on their own (some had over 30) . After my unfortunate death to bogeymen. I went into legends to look into how my buddies whom i infected held up, I noticed something odd, legends mode didn't label them as "creeping mist husks" though they still had their kills and they for some odd reason they still lived in the hamlets we destroyed (possibly by themselves) I thought this was odd so I created a new adventurer and found one of them hanging out in a house in one of the villages (killing any living things who went by) eventually killing me. It was still a thrall, but wasn't labeled as one in legends mode, is this a intended feature or a bug?
Also will people who get infected with this stuff ever lose their citizen status and rampage the world a bit like one would expect an evil thrall to do, the fact that they maintain their status as citizens in the hamlets they helped kill off is very odd and immersion breaking, and they didnt even get a reputation for killing either do you plan to remedy this?
Are we ever going to get the old "Halt in the name of the Blankety Blanks!" bandit announcement back? Also, will kobolds ever be able to talk to other kobolds?
The question arises, in the farther future of Justice Arc development, how do you intend for cases of death under mysterious, or disputed circumstances to be sorted? Will there need to be an autopsy done by the Chief Medical Dwarf? Will there be a new elected or appointed Fortress Coroner position? Could the gods give us a sign?
will it eventually be possible for us to modify the generationion code of the creatures that are currently procedurally generated like titans, werewolves, demons, ect?
Do you plan to ever make the north and south have opposing seasons?
Are there any plans to make constructed walls/floors engraveable?
Are there plans to change from workshops over to zones/locations so dwarfs could have their own kitchens or even a small blacksmith shop in a 3x3 room in their home and if thats the case when might this be done?
Will we be able to build using available materials or only logs? If I have blocks or boulders could I use those instead? Naturally I would expect the hauling time to be slower for boulders vs faster build-time with blocks and so forth.
I've got a Legends log here in which a goblin bard with a Dwarven name took up an apprenticeship in the dark pits Canyonjackal, then became a Baroness of her original, dwarven civilization. For the next 150 years the log has her alternately taking part in competitions in the fortress Wingshoot, and murdering randos in Canyonjackal. Is this a bug (code treating one histfig like they're in two places at once) or a feature (histfig returning home to participate in festivals)?
Will being able to change the colors/tile/etc for track indicators end up in the raws? The yellow/green is easy to see but in some areas it makes it hard to see where you're even at, much less where you're trying to track towards.
Quote from: TheFlame52Will dwarven merchants ever haul their wares on the backs of dralthas?Quote from: cochramdWill we ever see caravans and sieges come from the caverns instead of above ground? Will we ever be able to start a fortress in the caverns and have to dig up to the surface, instead of starting on the surface and digging down to the caverns?
Seeing as you spoke about on the podcast about optimisation and said there was alot that could be done code wise. Seeing as all players judge how playable the game is by FPS and some have even have refused to move on to the newer versions because of degraded perfomance, how do you judge when to do optimisation of something?
Some of the creatures act a bit strange such as wolves not wanting to attack a long dwarf and dwarfs canceling jobs because of keas will there be a pack mentality for the wolfs and something to make dwarfs not worry about birds that are high in the sky?
There appears to be a limit of group of creatures on the map and some even get stuck due the climbing (fish refuse to leave, some that arrive in the caverns just sit there on the edge if they're in water) would this also be moved over to init values for each level of the map for the amount of groups that there can be?
Is there a limit to the number of books one person can write? There seems to be.
Anyway, will we eventually see in-game effects of pulping besides just the flavor text? By that I mean, if a blunt attack causes a creatures head to "explode into gore", will we see an explosion of eyes, teeth and skull fragments, similarly to what happens when teeth are punched out?
Will there ever be lasting effects from mangled body parts in adventure mode? As ith every injury, travelling or resting seems to heal up any tissue capable of healing, meaning that a mangled body part is utterly shrugged off unless nerve damage occurred.
How high/low on your to-do list is the implementation of draft animals and the support necessary for them (feed bags, feeding troughs, etc)?
Toady do you plan to improve NPC dwarven fortress generation, right now they are very random, and hard to navigate do you plan to make them more navigable in the future?
I am aware that you can use travel mode and < and > to go back up to the surface, but it is very hard to get out of forts if you don't do this.
Quote from: Shonai_DwellerWill npc adventurers get any site building skills during this cycle? Would be nice to run into a monster hunter's mountain lodge full of Forgotten Beast bone figurines.
Will adventurer sites become inhabited by refugees/wandering kobolds/dance troupes/marsh titans if they're abandoned? Is it possible to abandon an adventurer site or will it always be taken over by some random person after the adventurer is dead?Quote from: ZM5Will civilizations be able to send soldiers to adventurer-created sites to reclaim them, should the adventurer die, or to forcefully take them over should the adventurer still be alive?
How is Scamps doing?
Will Adventurer Sites have the same limitations as dwarf sites?
In essence, can we build a monastery in the middle of a mountain range or a stationary "boat" over an ocean, where you can't build fortresses?
I've noticed that when you start Fortress mode, the world explodes into war. What are the differences between how wars start in worldgen and during fortress mode? What would you say is the intended median wars per civ per year in each mode?
Will retired adventurer sites be susceptible to insurrections? Current ones?
How would you go about adding in a skill cap for dwarfs much like theres a a cap on their attributes?
When might dwarfs be able to be put into a vegetative state?
Seeing as the next update is pretty mostly the artifact one, in Fortress Starting Scenarios For "Possible expansion of religious and family concepts to provide sufficient scenarios" does that mean that some culture's and religions will be discriminatory?
Will Fortress Starting Scenarios change the way requirements, demands and mandates are done so they extend to the point where nobles can have their own laws even jus primae noctis?
I was wondering if he was really just going to continue fixing up merchant bugs or if he was now ready to replace them altogether, something he said he put off doing this time because it would take so long due to very old code).
snip
Quote from: ButtonI've noticed that when you start Fortress mode, the world explodes into war. What are the differences between how wars start in worldgen and during fortress mode? What would you say is the intended median wars per civ per year in each mode?
There are too many differences to easily list, really. There is so much more information after world generation, especially with locations/armies. The war counts are interesting though. Is there a corresponding large amount of peace declarations? The whole rhythm just seems different, and broken. I'll have to look into it.
I look forward to colonising the remnants of giant cosmic eggs.
many myth questions which I attempt to address with a rambling reply
Other than engravings and decorations, where are we, the players, going to see the output of the mythology generator? And by "see", I mean "both notice and recognize". Will we see anything like lakes that were created from the footprints of gods, and will we recognize them as such?Magic seems like the most obvious one. Then there's landmasses made from giant shattered eggshells (apparently). Artifacts too.
Other than engravings and decorations, where are we, the players, going to see the output of the mythology generator? And by "see", I mean "both notice and recognize". Will we see anything like lakes that were created from the footprints of gods, and will we recognize them as such?
The myths it creates can lead to varied game elements, especially since you can just turn them off and on with parameters. We won't be able to get everything in all at once, but we should have a healthy first pass. This could change the end-game in player forts significantly, for instance, or make a certain form of magic occur everywhere, opening up new workshop/job chains etc., whereas other magic would resist industrialization/familiarity. There are various frequency/bloodline/requirement variables that come up, so individuals of a given race won't all be the same. We're hoping to add new landforms in the first release (giant region-sized cosmic egg shell fragments, and so forth), and eventually get to entire planes that you can visit in either mode (the difficulties there are the same as the difficulties with getting a separate off-site battle map up in fort mode, pretty much, and we'll probably handle them at once, in the distant future). Important artifacts will come up in the first pass -- the generator has stuff like looms that guide all of fate and so forth, and I'm not really sure how your interactions with those will go.
We're not quite sure how the exposition is going to work -- there's worldgen itself, where we're hoping to make the process highlight the important world elements and mythical events instead of just giving you the current technical rundown. Legends mode should have lots of information, and we're hoping it comes up in conversation/written works/art etc a bit as possible, as it does with historical events. Certain elements might occur in chargen and the embark screen as well, if they apply. It still remains to be seen just how confusing it all is and where we'll need to focus. If you set your world's fantasy rating to the maximum, there won't even be dwarves, just some playable race with random traits and a random name, but at least that exposition problem comes from opting-in through the maxed-out parameter, so it's not crucial to get it right immediately.
I smell a case of TLDR-itis at work on Coch's part. :VYes, last night I was stricken by a bad case of TLDRitis. Chalk it up to me not being terribly interested in most other people's questions.
So no point in asking how deep one might be able to start, huh?QuoteQuote from: TheFlame52Will dwarven merchants ever haul their wares on the backs of dralthas?Quote from: cochramdWill we ever see caravans and sieges come from the caverns instead of above ground? Will we ever be able to start a fortress in the caverns and have to dig up to the surface, instead of starting on the surface and digging down to the caverns?
It's much more likely to happen when we get to the deep dwarf trade from the edge of the underground layers (probably with the firstish embark scenario release). We're certainly planning to have a cavern start scenario, though it is very hard to say now what will be in the first batch since there are so many options.
Well, that's a tad disappointing to hear. I know you've got a whole lot of cool features in progress that are more fun to work on, but draft animals and the support necessary for them strikes me as a feature that would bring a lot of gameplay changes for relatively little coding work on your part. Everything changes when you increase how quickly a large number of things can be hauled and decrease the dwarfpower needed to do so. The support for draft animals would make caring for herds of grazers much easier in general and provide a use for them beyond the meat industry.Quote from: cochramdHow high/low on your to-do list is the implementation of draft animals and the support necessary for them (feed bags, feeding troughs, etc)?
It isn't in the short-term dev plans, so it's in the amorphous rest-of-stuff with everything else.
Reading one of the sample myths from the myth generator (http://ec0c5a7f741a6f3bff65-dd07187202f57fa404a8f047da2bcff5.r85.cf1.rackcdn.com/images/91GTGgDJqj49.878x0.Z-Z96KYq.jpg) in the PC Gamer interview, I'm really impressed by how much sense it makes, how internally consistent the details are. I can summarize the visible myth fragment in natural language quite easily: Titatheus is the creator of the world, but a fairly malevolent demiurge in the Gnostic tradition. They created the universe as we know it by disturbing the perfect fire of the Timeless Judgment with their Mischevious Test. Dwarves, in turn, are fallible but hopeful creatures. They stand between the perfection of the Timeless Judgment, from which the Zolidon Fay, enigmatic grandchild of Titatheus, took essence, and the Phupithion Stream, the Stygian river in which they were created. They chose to align themselves with the Timeless Judgment, rebelling against their creator. And indeed, dwarves who act improperly have their souls merged into the Mischevious Test that Titatheus created, while they draw their magic from the Timeless Judgment of their essence.
I'm excited to see what else arises in the final version, what impact it will have on my games, and what creative ways the community will find to exploit the arcana of whatever universes they find themselves in.
Its definitely a good reason to keep playing in a single world .Now I'm going to feel even more guilty tossing out multiple worlds in the process of troubleshooting a mod...
Reading one of the sample myths from the myth generator (http://ec0c5a7f741a6f3bff65-dd07187202f57fa404a8f047da2bcff5.r85.cf1.rackcdn.com/images/91GTGgDJqj49.878x0.Z-Z96KYq.jpg) in the PC Gamer interview, I'm really impressed by how much sense it makes, how internally consistent the details are. I can summarize the visible myth fragment in natural language quite easily: Titatheus is the creator of the world, but a fairly malevolent demiurge in the Gnostic tradition. They created the universe as we know it by disturbing the perfect fire of the Timeless Judgment with their Mischevious Test. Dwarves, in turn, are fallible but hopeful creatures. They stand between the perfection of the Timeless Judgment, from which the Zolidon Fay, enigmatic grandchild of Titatheus, took essence, and the Phupithion Stream, the Stygian river in which they were created. They chose to align themselves with the Timeless Judgment, rebelling against their creator. And indeed, dwarves who act improperly have their souls merged into the Mischevious Test that Titatheus created, while they draw their magic from the Timeless Judgment of their essence.I'm sorta curious as to what explanations there would be for the birth of every modded race I have in my worlds.
I'm excited to see what else arises in the final version, what impact it will have on my games, and what creative ways the community will find to exploit the arcana of whatever universes they find themselves in.
Its definitely a good reason to keep playing in a single world .Now I'm going to feel even more guilty tossing out multiple worlds in the process of troubleshooting a mod...
"The end is nigh! For I have gazed upon the error log, and is a long sad tale indeed. Even now, the modder's hand moves toward our destruction! Repent while you can!"Its definitely a good reason to keep playing in a single world .Now I'm going to feel even more guilty tossing out multiple worlds in the process of troubleshooting a mod...
Madness. It only makes the offering to Armok's evil twin, the god of boredom, even sweeter.
I wouldn't expect a huge amount of control at first (other than the level-of-fantasy slider), but I would very much appreciate being able to assure there is at least one "forging of the world" or "forging life" myth in my mod, and other mods would benefit from moddable myths.
will modders be able to choose what mythology their worlds have? I'd hate to make a pokemon mod, only to find out in a world it has more vanilla-ish mythology
will modders be able to choose what mythology their worlds have? I'd hate to make a pokemon mod, only to find out in a world it has more vanilla-ish mythology
it looks like a combination of a chicken and a t-rex
Hello!
I didn't want to take your time with this but I can't hold it any longer. As I keep checking the homepage everyday, it becomes more and more disturbing but I can't explain it why... maybe its smile?... At first I didn't mind it but now I just can't ignore it. It's watching me with it's shiny red eye! Like it is scanning my soul... I don't know what is it but I MUST know it: what is that yellow thingy with the pointing finger on the old donations menu?
When looking over the game thus far, the nature of eras has led me to conclude that part of what the game implies, deliberately or not, is a notion of, for lack of better terminology, entropic decay. The world starts at a Mythic Age, and as the creatures of magic die off, it becomes a Legendary, then Heroic Age. If all the magic creatures, including dwarves, start dying off, it becomes a Twilight, Fairy Tale, or "Civilized" (fully mundane) Age.
This, as a whole, is reminiscent of Lord of the Rings, and many other similar mythic stories, including the Narnia series, where the Golden Age fades, the myth dies, and the magic goes away into a more mundane world.
From the few GDC screenshots floating out there on twitter, the page number is most likely a control for the sidebar that lists the elements of the myths, while the current topic gets a scrollbar. Page 1 would list, among others, the various Primordial elements of those myths. From what I gather, in the prototype program, the dwarven/human/etc topic pages would be accessed by clicking on that element. It would make sense if the other elements have similar pages, though, even if we haven't seen any of them.Reading one of the sample myths from the myth generator (http://ec0c5a7f741a6f3bff65-dd07187202f57fa404a8f047da2bcff5.r85.cf1.rackcdn.com/images/91GTGgDJqj49.878x0.Z-Z96KYq.jpg) in the PC Gamer interview, I'm really impressed by how much sense it makes, how internally consistent the details are. [snip]I'm sorta curious as to what explanations there would be for the birth of every modded race I have in my worlds.
Also I noticed, the number 2 is selected on the image itself, so is it just one page of the entire mythology? Are the other pages about demons and various megabeasts and such?
It is also quite possible for things to go 'backwards' and in fact they tend to do so many times. Hence there is no really any clear progression implied by the game really at all, especially nowadays that megabeasts can reproduce.
I thought that would be like a slider between a mostly flat map with few peaks to a rippled corrugated mess of peaks and valleys for elevation, and a slider between mostly mundane with few exceptions to a writhing coruscating mass of beasts and warlocks for fantasy.
I probably haven't looked hard enough butThis thread less than 24 hours ago. Link from top of Toady's devblog. It's the first paragraph on mythgen.
Didn't you mention a "fantasy rating" or slider for worldgen, determining how "true" the myths would be? As well as the possibility to generate a world without dwarves but entirely different procedural races instead? Will these two options be controlled by the same slider/value/etc, or different ones?
Pretty sure someone'll be able to answer this, but I'm not entirely sure.
Toady wrote that you might generate a world without even being guaranteed dwarves or humans or anything, and all the critters are rando-land. While such a thing might be interesting for those seeking a novel experience, it would also make it very difficult for newer players, especially, to make heads or tails of anything, since the rules of the game are changing every time you play.
Imagine if the bugfuck-insanely-named musical instruments, only they can kill you. This is the only major downside I see, wherein the name gives no reliable clue as to what you're looking at.
Take the plants that were, before the recent real plants were introduced, for example; Everyone knows what an oak tree is or what a cabbage is without the game describing it for you. We only could figure out a "feather tree" was something that literally had feathers (and, of all things, eggs as fruit,) when Toady put it in the raws, or that a quarry bush was a literal bush with stone-gray plant leaves and nuts that look like rocks when they were put in the raws.
If the added elements are named the same way existing generated beasts are, it would be acceptable. You could at least parse the name and at least have a vague idea of what to expect. The problem is if they're named the same way the instruments are, which would be moronic. ;w;
Toady wrote that you might generate a world without even being guaranteed dwarves or humans or anything, and all the critters are rando-land. While such a thing might be interesting for those seeking a novel experience, it would also make it very difficult for newer players, especially, to make heads or tails of anything, since the rules of the game are changing every time you play.
Imagine if the bugfuck-insanely-named musical instruments, only they can kill you. This is the only major downside I see, wherein the name gives no reliable clue as to what you're looking at.
How will the myth generation affect the naming methods of these new generated features? Will they at least have names that give a vague hint as to what to expect (like how demons and night trolls are labeled), or will it use random language-based monikers? Because I can see that being an infinitely worse idea than that feature's current use with musical instruments. I don't mind not having any clue what an instrument is just from the name, because an instrument can't eat my face. -_-
Read some screenshots (like from the recent interview) the myths actually make sense when you read them (as do the artifacts and such) so I expect it will have a decent naming scheme.Well, there is that one type of element that wasn't quite clear from the earlier screenshots that I theorized could be pantheons. They do seem to share the color of elements called "Gods"/"Divinity", so that may mean they are...
I had a suggestion topic about an overview mode some years back. Something like that could also help.
So, the system for playing as a bard in this game is amazing, you can write music play instruments get people all happy, dance, do poems, play music, pretty much whatever you want however, people don't get bored when you play the same song five thousand times, and they don't throw money at you when you play really well, and if you are bad, they don't try to, for example throw you out of the tavern, do you plan to make it so people can become bored if you play the same song five thousand times (especially if the song is described as not even being very good in general) and get upset if you play really bad (or really crappy songs), or will people always be perpetually entertained by the same song (even if its a "badly written" song) and not throw you out of taverns for playing badly..?Bye bye Miss American Pie... Drove my Chevy to levee but the levee was dry...
So, the system for playing as a bard in this game is amazing, you can write music play instruments get people all happy, dance, do poems, play music, pretty much whatever you want however, people don't get bored when you play the same song five thousand times, and they don't throw money at you when you play really well, and if you are bad, they don't try to, for example throw you out of the tavern, do you plan to make it so people can become bored if you play the same song five thousand times (especially if the song is described as not even being very good in general) and get upset if you play really bad (or really crappy songs), or will people always be perpetually entertained by the same song and not throw you out of taverns for playing badly..?
So, the system for playing as a bard in this game is amazing, you can write music play instruments get people all happy, dance, do poems, play music, pretty much whatever you want however, people don't get bored when you play the same song five thousand times, and they don't throw money at you when you play really well, and if you are bad, they don't try to, for example throw you out of the tavern, do you plan to make it so people can become bored if you play the same song five thousand times (especially if the song is described as not even being very good in general) and get upset if you play really bad (or really crappy songs), or will people always be perpetually entertained by the same song and not throw you out of taverns for playing badly..?
Not an answer to this, but have you, by chance, played Elona?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Apart from my original suggestion being mostly targeted at a different problem (visibility rather than gray goo), I figured calling it an overview mode at least would give a good idea of how it would look like.I had a suggestion topic about an overview mode some years back. Something like that could also help.
The silliness of modesty past the point of bringing up a subject aside, you might as well link something to make it easier for people to actually find what you are talking about. :P
Allow me to shamelessly plug your thread for you (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=82778.msg2203520#msg2203520).
Hi everybody, making my first comments here and hoping not to ask stupid questions. :)Check out the Dev page, working siege engines among other things (like digging) are planned . You could also check out the old wreck/bloat Dev page for more info (on phone right now so cannot link).
Is there a plan to implement some more conditions regarding statics, especially of buildings? Will siege engines be able to topple or destroy walls in the future?
Will tools be necessary to create things? Will there be more tools like nails & hammer for wooden walls, chisels for masonry, etc.?
When will more things break?
I'd guess this would be hard to implement, but will players be able to mod/influence site generation? Will there be more kinds of site-types available in the future, for modding if not for vanilla DF?I was actually as well if there would eventually be more types of sites - kind of difficult right now to properly have primitive, tribal civs since the only options imply some degree of actual civilization (aside from caves but that doesn't really count). Tent "cities" would be nice.
Just asking from a modding perspective. It would be cool to have a few more types of sites, for more primitive/advanced civilisations for example. Or have hamlets, but no towns etc.
I'd guess this would be hard to implement, but will players be able to mod/influence site generation? Will there be more kinds of site-types available in the future, for modding if not for vanilla DF?I was actually as well if there would eventually be more types of sites - kind of difficult right now to properly have primitive, tribal civs since the only options imply some degree of actual civilization (aside from caves but that doesn't really count). Tent "cities" would be nice.
Just asking from a modding perspective. It would be cool to have a few more types of sites, for more primitive/advanced civilisations for example. Or have hamlets, but no towns etc.
Also, I've got two other questions - will it eventually be possible to start civilizations instead of merely being extensions of existing ones? And, I remember something being mentioned about martial arts forms being eventually randomly generated just like poetry, dance and music forms - what exactly will that entail and will players be able to create their own moves? For that matter, will these be mostly for flavor or will they appear as actual options in the wrestling menu and have their own unique effects, i.e neck snaps for particularly brutish races or piledrivers targetting the head and causing unconsciousness easily?
I'd guess this would be hard to implement, but will players be able to mod/influence site generation? Will there be more kinds of site-types available in the future, for modding if not for vanilla DF?
Just asking from a modding perspective. It would be cool to have a few more types of sites, for more primitive/advanced civilisations for example. Or have hamlets, but no towns etc.
Quote from: darklord92Will we ever be able to edit the types of buildings that will appear in towns as well as the "dungeons" inside of it, possibly having it external such as a site_dwarf file. or having "plans" built into the game like now but with the buildings customisable in the entity files, such as the options to build towers or not, or to have sewers or not at a certain city value or populationThings tend to move out to the raws as I feel more comfortable with them. Once I'm done with all of the sites and have more an idea of what I'm dealing with and what I'll be dealing with, we'll probably see more things in there.
...And, I remember something being mentioned about martial arts forms being eventually randomly generated just like poetry, dance and music forms - what exactly will that entail and will players be able to create their own moves? For that matter, will these be mostly for flavor or will they appear as actual options in the wrestling menu and have their own unique effects, i.e neck snaps for particularly brutish races or piledrivers targetting the head and causing unconsciousness easily?
Combat flow
...
Notion of stance/guard, with varying bonuses/penalties
Ability to jump up on and ride opponents if they are large enough (can happen to you too of course)
Not being able to hit a giant in the head, hitting a dragon in the head as a reaction when it attempts to bite
Notion of overall wrestling position (who is on top of or controlling whom, etc.)
Combat styles
Combat styles involving weapons or natural attacks with associated stances and moves
Ability to learn moves, etc. from others with whom you have a high enough reputation
Certain moves may only be available as specific counters, while others might just be regular attacks
Ability to create new moves/styles when highly skilled
Not seen any monster hunters are they bugged or just so rare that they hardly exist?They do actually exist from what I can tell - it's just, most of them die in worldgen, and living ones are rare - either completely unharmed, or with missing body parts - I've seen people with missing eyes or limbs (once with a missing arm and leg), who according to legends had fought with beasts before, so they definitely exist.
I thought that would be like a slider between a mostly flat map with few peaks to a rippled corrugated mess of peaks and valleys for elevation, and a slider between mostly mundane with few exceptions to a writhing coruscating mass of beasts and warlocks for fantasy.
I suspect it will just be a difference between only having what's in the raws, and what's going to be generated by the new myth system. The game can't figure out what's "mundane" except by what it's told in the raws, and there's no real binding to physical reality when people mod things.
Well, we've talked a lot about magic in the previous episodes. With dwarves, our sort of baseline idea is all artifact based, and that beyond that it would kind of be slider based, you could go to the no-magic world, or the very minimal magic world, or you could start getting into this kind of factory-based magic that we'd prefer to stay away from for the default setting. I mean it's like D&D magic often seems kind of factory based.
This seems most likely, but Toady has spoken of being able to turn off magic entirely eventually.Quote from: Toady OneWell, we've talked a lot about magic in the previous episodes. With dwarves, our sort of baseline idea is all artifact based, and that beyond that it would kind of be slider based, you could go to the no-magic world, or the very minimal magic world, or you could start getting into this kind of factory-based magic that we'd prefer to stay away from for the default setting. I mean it's like D&D magic often seems kind of factory based.
Will the player be able to read a creation story with 100% fantasy and one with 0% fantasy and be able to tell which is which?You should mark your questions in lime green for future reference.
Will the player be able to read a creation story with 100% fantasy and one with 0% fantasy and be able to tell which is which?
Will the player be able to read a creation story with 100% fantasy and one with 0% fantasy and be able to tell which is which?
From what I understand the answer is not yet. As of right now, the only difference is whether it's true or not.
If you meant later, when it's more granular, idk.
Will the player be able to read a creation story with 100% fantasy and one with 0% fantasy and be able to tell which is which?
From what I understand the answer is not yet. As of right now, the only difference is whether it's true or not.
If you meant later, when it's more granular, idk.
Are you sure about that?
If you set the "fantasy rating" of the world to zero, it still builds a series of events, but those are then just stories (perhaps at a civilization level, not really decided how they might interweave between civs). If you set the parameters to allow for it, then the story is correct, which creates a kind of shared lore for the world.
I've been cooking up these suggestions in my minor absence from the forums. :D
If animals ever get a rehaul to count individuals on a global scale migrationally etc. etc, would mundane animals that could survive the semi-cold and dark environment (grizzly bears for instance) inhabit sections of the caverns via non-megabeast guarded cave entrances? this may be additionally relevant to 0% fantastical worlds in which mundane flora may have room to breathe and expand onto the landscape and serve as a sanctuary from high aboveground settlement & hunting
In addition to my second question...
Is there any form of contingency plan for goblins/supernatural races when magic/supernatural leaders/power giving artifacts are destroyed? Seeming as goblins have no form of baseline nobility or monarch/leader and exist purely underneath their master
And as such upon the destruction of the one ring bearing the name and power of the great filth demon Mempkohet, forged in a time before time, the great demon lord's soul was cast back to whence it came, and the armies of the goblins freed of the direction of their master trembled as for the spirit of death came for them, reclaiming the immortality, hexes & strength imbued as the great dark tower to the east crumbles and is reclaimed by the earth and the binding power is snapped causing a eighth of all known goblins to die where they stood.
The elves wept, as they knew the age of magic had ended and the dwarves would most certainly celebrate by carving twenty thousand wooden mugs.
Finally...
Are you prepared to get sued by Stephen Spielberg should a Tolkien esque story emerges by coincidence?
Are you prepared to get sued by Stephen Spielberg should a Tolkien esque story emerges by coincidence?
I've been cooking up these suggestions in my minor absence from the forums. :D
If animals ever get a rehaul to count individuals on a global scale migrationally etc. etc, would mundane animals that could survive the semi-cold and dark environment (grizzly bears for instance) inhabit sections of the caverns via non-megabeast guarded cave entrances? this may be additionally relevant to 0% fantastical worlds in which mundane flora may have room to breathe and expand onto the landscape and serve as a sanctuary from high aboveground settlement & hunting
I've been cooking up these suggestions in my minor absence from the forums. :D
If animals ever get a rehaul to count individuals on a global scale migrationally etc. etc, would mundane animals that could survive the semi-cold and dark environment (grizzly bears for instance) inhabit sections of the caverns via non-megabeast guarded cave entrances? this may be additionally relevant to 0% fantastical worlds in which mundane flora may have room to breathe and expand onto the landscape and serve as a sanctuary from high aboveground settlement & hunting
Believe it or not regional animal populations are in fact tracked, if you kill enough (or civs do) you can make them locally extinct this way. This happens most often with the larger smaller population creatures such as giant wolverines in the mountains, eg attacking your dwarves eventually you can kill them all off.
They Don't migrate I beleive though.
It should be, but toady seems to have said that it won't in the last FotF reply.Yeah, he definitely did.
HOW many Tolkien-esque stories have been written in pulp fiction, now? Hell, Angband, Moria, and ToME outright are LotR games, and they didn't get sued.Well they're pretty much free but when ToME went for a paid game it ditched the Tolkien world. If theres no commercial gain or being defamatory theres really no reason to sue.
Is there any form of contingency plan for goblins/supernatural races when magic/supernatural leaders/power giving artifacts are destroyed? Seeming as goblins have no form of baseline nobility or monarch/leader and exist purely underneath their masterThere already is. A different citizen just becomes master. It would be nice if there was some proper simulation of the chaos that would cause in the civilization, same as if a monarch of a elf/dwarf/human(?maybe not humans? They have law-givers, not sure how those work) dies without having a clear heir to the throne, but that's probably going to be a very far away development goal.
Goblins might have the Spiritual leader trait from Civilization IV... no anarchy during changes in the social order :)Is there any form of contingency plan for goblins/supernatural races when magic/supernatural leaders/power giving artifacts are destroyed? Seeming as goblins have no form of baseline nobility or monarch/leader and exist purely underneath their masterThere already is. A different citizen just becomes master. It would be nice if there was some proper simulation of the chaos that would cause in the civilization, same as if a monarch of a elf/dwarf/human(?maybe not humans? They have law-givers, not sure how those work) dies without having a clear heir to the throne, but that's probably going to be a very far away development goal.
I always thought it was weird how humans had "law-givers" instead of kings or queens - that seems like a name a really primitive race would give their leader - like even more primitive than goblins.
"Ey, Break-the-Face, I got da message for de law-giver! Where 'e at?"
"Oh I dunno Burn-the-Flesh, last I saw 'im 'e was getting drunk at the Honeys of Meat and vomiting uncontrollably after Rip-the-Skin punched 'im in the gut."
For some reason it gives me a stereotypical Norse vibe, though it may be the mead halls as well. Too bad these pitiful humans never put any mead or even dining furniture in the mead halls. ;w;Yeah I do think they're supposed to be Norse-like with the mead halls and such, it's just the "law-giver" title is somewhat weird.
No mead? They don't even have any damn bees.
Usually fantasy worlds are ranked by "magic prevalence"(which you have) and "really chaotic magic to extremely consistent controlled magic", with the extreme end of the chaos scale to the right being that magic can essentially be studied as a science and is perfectly consistent, the extreme left of the scale is where magic is extremely unpredictable and dangerous, do you plan to add a "How chaotic is magic" scale in addition to the magical prevalence scale? OR will we just have the prevalence scale.
The reason they don't bring any mead is that they kill the bees to extract bee poison which they DO bring in barrels, rather than use the bees to produce honey (which, in DF, kills the bees as the honey is harvested).No mead? They don't even have any damn bees.
They have hives, the relevant bee-keeping+pressing professions, and the mead reaction. But I've never SEEN humans OR dwarves bring mead, and dwarves seem to lack mead on the embark screen.
Same reason my kobolds in Kobold Kamp never seem to bring kumis/kefir, because it seems custom reactions aren't always reflected in embark/trade.
Usually fantasy worlds are ranked by "magic prevalence"(which you have) and "really chaotic magic to extremely consistent controlled magic", with the extreme end of the chaos scale to the right being that magic can essentially be studied as a science and is perfectly consistent, the extreme left of the scale is where magic is extremely unpredictable and dangerous, do you plan to add a "How chaotic is magic" scale in addition to the magical prevalence scale? OR will we just have the prevalence scale.
As we've debated in at least a dozen rather lengthy magic threads, though, the problem with "chaotic" magic is that I've not seen any way to actually implement "chaotic" magic in any way that wouldn't result in an overly fiddly system that is of no practical value or the default reaction to anyone practicing magic to be throwing them into an "unfortunate accident" chamber.Spoiler: elaboration (click to show/hide)
Do you have plans to (someday) add a way for the community to script the game using an embedded language?
I guess it's easier to mod, but it should probably be an accepted scripting language instead. The brackets are weird and cumbersome.
I'm sure toady would come up with something anyway, he does that kind of thing. Like he said in the alternate planes df talk about an artifact that slowly brings your fort into the fire dimension,
this is also why we would have a slider. some people, like me, like the concept of a world where magic is rare but dangerous and unpredictable, and some like magic being all over the place and unpredictable, creating a dystopian type world.
There are many fantasy settings with chaotic magic, and toady already has a list of magic effects, so he can just use a random number and grab an effect, I don't care if it is always super usefull or not "you turn into a plant" is just fine , since you chose to have your magic chaotic.
The Lord Darcy series does a good job of making magic seem tameable, but not yet tamed, as if it was a new science. I especially liked the explanation of why an 'invisibility' spell was infeasible (you're really preventing everyone in the area from looking in your direction... or at any reflective surfaces).I'm sure toady would come up with something anyway, he does that kind of thing. Like he said in the alternate planes df talk about an artifact that slowly brings your fort into the fire dimension,
this is also why we would have a slider. some people, like me, like the concept of a world where magic is rare but dangerous and unpredictable, and some like magic being all over the place and unpredictable, creating a dystopian type world.
There are many fantasy settings with chaotic magic, and toady already has a list of magic effects, so he can just use a random number and grab an effect, I don't care if it is always super usefull or not "you turn into a plant" is just fine , since you chose to have your magic chaotic.
Well, simply saying "Toady will think of something" is at least magical thinking... Again, this isn't a matter of just using some elegant code, I have yet to find anyone who can even conceptually describe a system that produces magic effects that achieve the sorts of ill-described, nebulous effects you tend to find in fantasy fiction. All they come up with is a Wild Magic Table. It doesn't matter how good a coder Toady is, he can't do the impossible. Judging by what magic interactions he's done, for that matter, vampires and necromancers are entirely "predictable" magic, while werewhatevers are unpredictable only in that instead of being attacked by a werewolf, you instead get attacked by a weresheep.
Fantasy novels have the advantage of withholding information from the reader. Magic effects can be a "surprise" because the reader wasn't clued in to what they do, before, but that effect is rapidly lost when you systemize and make routine that sort of magic interaction. For that matter, fiction novels don't need to keep a simulation of the exact physical effects a spell has upon every rock in such a way that a reader could easily ascertain the exact dimensions to which a fireball spell actually has its area of effect. Harry Potter having hopping chocolate frogs for the first time is a surprise and a "mystery" and novel. When Harry gets on his name-brand flying broom to win his 7th straight quidditch match, they have to introduce villains trying to sabotage or otherwise overshadow the proceedings because flying on brooms chasing after a golden ball that only Harry can catch to always win becomes boring and routine. For that matter, Bertie Bott's Every Flavor Beans where the beans are randomly either caramel corn or vomit-flavored is a really stupid idea outside of the first "sheer novelty" tasting. Even my Harry Potter-obsessed mother and aunt only bought them once before declaring that having a box guaranteed to have flavors like "booger" in it somewhere if you just kept eating every candy in the box was a really stupid idea.
And yes, it's a slider, and I'm sure there are some people who'd enjoy it so that they could "have their fortress explode epically," which might be good for a laugh the first couple times you turn the air into fire and everyone dies for no reason. I suspect more players are interested in not barbecuing themselves just as they're getting their fort on its feet just for the giggles, and would weld that slider firmly "off". I'm not sure if it's worth the effort of creating such "chaotic" magic if almost nobody would use it more than once, however.
After all, even when you start talking about it, the only example you give happens to be a "your dwarf dies for no reason" example. You might as well replicate the effects of this kind of "magic system" by just rolling 1d20 every month, and if you roll a 1, change the raws so that flesh melts at -20 Celcius. Same basic effect as the "chaotic magic" the occasional person clamors for.
The Lord Darcy series does a good job of making magic seem tameable, but not yet tamed, as if it was a new science. I especially liked the explanation of why an 'invisibility' spell was infeasible (you're really preventing everyone in the area from looking in your direction... or at any reflective surfaces).I'm not familiar, but that doesn't seem like it would translate into a computer simulation with little by way of established lines of sight, much less mirrors or the concept of reflections...
Though I'm not familiar with "the" Wild Magic Table, you can get quite a bit of wild into magic by making the range, scope, duration and power random. I don't mean the random of a 10d6 damage fireball (which will be somewhere around 35 almost every time), but something that legitimately spans a couple orders of magnitude by operating on a log scale. Hopefully that Smother Fire spell doesn't run too strong and you shut down every forge in the fort for a while. Equip each Sphere with its own sliding scale of side-effects (basically "paying for" the random boost), and you have something suitably not industrialized.
Yes, insta-game-over is not really fun to most people. The game Mage had a fantastic mechanic called Paradox, and I think a deep list of effects related to each Sphere could do the job of a mediocre GM. But it would also need the infrastructure of assigning Sphere associations to every creature, plant, item, etc. in the game (side-effects can be based on the target). Basically, a crap-ton of work that only makes sense if almost every one of the building blocks is useful to some other facet of the game. Sphere effects could make FB syndromes more thematic, creature/plant associations can get us away from the Good/Evil/Calm/Savage grids, and so on... but the bits and pieces will need to come organically from DF development. It's a bit silly to insist that Toady make some ginormous Magic System™ that sits completely apart from everything else in the simulation.(we should definetly avoid turning this into a suggestions thread)
RE "Chaotic" magic: It seems to me that the most feasible implementation of this would be a sort of a magical quality system. An Archmage with unlimited regents could always cast ☼masterwork☼ spells, while an apprentice with a paucity of supplies would be quite prone to misfires. This way, while your fortress wouldn't go up in flame without warning, it could still do so, if you're not careful enough.
EDIT: The logical extension of this would be a magical ease-slider, allowing anything from a world with no chance of spells failing to one where the chance of success is never more than a coin-flip.
The GDC myth-generator video shows that randomized races are in the pipeline. Will users be able to influence the random elements, and if so, by how much?
What does the SUPERNATURAL tag do? The wiki claims that it gives a creature access to all secrets of a corresponding sphere, yet it doesn't seem to do that in 42.xx.
Yes, insta-game-over is not really fun to most people. The game Mage had a fantastic mechanic called Paradox, and I think a deep list of effects related to each Sphere could do the job of a mediocre GM.
funny thing is DF actually leans towards "magic is rare and magic is chaotic" right now, we have evil regions that turn you into thralls, and do other horrifying things , powerful dangerous necromancers, and powers that have a huge cost (you want to see people through walls, you need to be a vampire and you need blood)
Paradox is not the "misuse" of magic, except in the sense that young mages are told not to use magic in a way that creates Paradox, which is somewhat circular reasoning. Paradox results from doing something utterly unbelievable in the eyes of the witnesses. That origin is well beyond the capabilities of a DF engine, which is a shame because it leads to some of the best nuance in the what-is-reality thread running throughout the game (especially when a static magician stumbles into Paradox blindly). But in the hands of a mediocre GM, Paradox can be a list of context-sensitive side-effects of varying levels of seriousness. That, I think, DF can do.Yes, insta-game-over is not really fun to most people. The game Mage had a fantastic mechanic called Paradox, and I think a deep list of effects related to each Sphere could do the job of a mediocre GM.
Mage: the Awakening also had a very nuanced set of circumstances (as in extremely difficult to have a computer GM it) under which Paradox would ever apply, and made it a punishment for misuse of magic, rather than mere use of magic. Mage allowed for a wide variety of ways to avoid Paradox, including through a large list of "covert" spells that run no risk of Paradox, and, for that matter, the fact that magic was often better used simply augmenting natural abilities over direct action. (Why shoot lightning bolts from your fingers for 6 dice of damage and threat of Paradox when you can boost your firearms skill and dexterity, and then shoot a gun for 13 dice of damage and no threat of Paradox?)
funny thing is DF actually leans towards "magic is rare and magic is chaotic" right now, we have evil regions that turn you into thralls, and do other horrifying things , powerful dangerous necromancers, and powers that have a huge cost (you want to see people through walls, you need to be a vampire and you need blood)Just to ask, did you mean 'magic' as in being able to be manually manipulated by the creatures of the world, or magic in a sense of environmental/natural/deity forces? Because the latter seems to be a more common sort than the former, which that statement could apply. And as NW mentioned (understandable systematic magic), it's controllable by terrain and biome currently.
Tiny question, unsure if it was addressed before but a cursory search doesn't show:
Will it be possible to overlap trade depot zones with inn/tavern zones?
Unsure how to write that. It's my first time posting here in a thread like this. ._.
The Lord Darcy series does a good job of making magic seem tameable, but not yet tamed, as if it was a new science. I especially liked the explanation of why an 'invisibility' spell was infeasible (you're really preventing everyone in the area from looking in your direction... or at any reflective surfaces).I'm not familiar, but that doesn't seem like it would translate into a computer simulation with little by way of established lines of sight, much less mirrors or the concept of reflections...
that doesn't seem like it would translate into a computer simulation with little by way of established lines of sight, much less mirrors or the concept of reflections...
I understand from this statement you don't play adventure mode much?
Line of sight, with actual vision cones, including periifferal vision and which direction people are facing and how dark clothing one is wearing is all taken into account. And many many other factors.
So that's in.
If the mirror is in your peripheral vision (which is tracked and distinguished) then the mirror is vaguely in the direction I am walking.that doesn't seem like it would translate into a computer simulation with little by way of established lines of sight, much less mirrors or the concept of reflections...
I understand from this statement you don't play adventure mode much?
Line of sight, with actual vision cones, including periifferal vision and which direction people are facing and how dark clothing one is wearing is all taken into account. And many many other factors.
So that's in.
Vision cones in this game are very, very minimal. Toady doesn't even have the capacity for allowing graphics to show gender, much less something as specific as facing, and facing is basically "which direction you moved in last", without people looking left while walking forward.
There is no real capacity for a distinction between "I am looking directly at a mirror" versus "this mirror happens to be vaguely in the direction I am walking". It's so anathema to the current interface and control scheme that anything other than having a "look character action" (as opposed to the player interface tool) you manually punch and then target the mirror would basically be impossible. Compare this to something like a 3d game where you just, you know, point the camera at the mirror.
After all, illusionists are ... not even using magic.What?! O.o No, the magic has to be real. I saw it...
Oh, I'm not talking about Uri Geller. He's not an illusionist but a Mentalist, and he actually uses magic and not trickery, 'case he says so.After all, illusionists are ... not even using magic.What?! O.o No, the magic has to be real. I saw it...
I did a bit of testing, and it would seem that not only do spire-demons have some sort of monopoly on SUPERNATURAL (presumably by way of either the GENERATED or UNIQUE_DEMON tags,) but only the ones that rule goblins get its benefits. I tried adventuring as one (by way of some .exe hackery,) then retiring him, and he didn't have access to any secrets. What's more, it would seem that spire-demons can't actually use their knowledge. I made a rainbow-aligned secret that turns the learner into a horse, gave all spire-demons the RAINBOWS sphere, and none of them changed, despite knowing the secret. I even found one in person, just to see if world-gen was being finicky.The GDC myth-generator video shows that randomized races are in the pipeline. Will users be able to influence the random elements, and if so, by how much?
What does the SUPERNATURAL tag do? The wiki claims that it gives a creature access to all secrets of a corresponding sphere, yet it doesn't seem to do that in 42.xx.
I have seen demons with the death sphere that know like 24 versions of necromancy in the legends viewer in this version (you know SECRET_01, SECRET_02) what it calls the necromancer secrets, so it does work, at least for them.
I did a bit of testing, and it would seem that not only do spire-demons have some sort of monopoly on SUPERNATURAL (presumably by way of either the GENERATED or UNIQUE_DEMON tags,) but only the ones that rule goblins get its benefits. I tried adventuring as one (by way of some .exe hackery,) then retiring him, and he didn't have access to any secrets. What's more, it would seem that spire-demons can't actually use their knowledge. I made a rainbow-aligned secret that turns the learner into a horse, gave all spire-demons the RAINBOWS sphere, and none of them changed, despite knowing the secret. I even found one in person, just to see if world-gen was being finicky.The GDC myth-generator video shows that randomized races are in the pipeline. Will users be able to influence the random elements, and if so, by how much?
What does the SUPERNATURAL tag do? The wiki claims that it gives a creature access to all secrets of a corresponding sphere, yet it doesn't seem to do that in 42.xx.
I have seen demons with the death sphere that know like 24 versions of necromancy in the legends viewer in this version (you know SECRET_01, SECRET_02) what it calls the necromancer secrets, so it does work, at least for them.
They were in the .xml-dump, which is what I assume legends-viewer reads.I did a bit of testing, and it would seem that not only do spire-demons have some sort of monopoly on SUPERNATURAL (presumably by way of either the GENERATED or UNIQUE_DEMON tags,) but only the ones that rule goblins get its benefits. I tried adventuring as one (by way of some .exe hackery,) then retiring him, and he didn't have access to any secrets. What's more, it would seem that spire-demons can't actually use their knowledge. I made a rainbow-aligned secret that turns the learner into a horse, gave all spire-demons the RAINBOWS sphere, and none of them changed, despite knowing the secret. I even found one in person, just to see if world-gen was being finicky.The GDC myth-generator video shows that randomized races are in the pipeline. Will users be able to influence the random elements, and if so, by how much?
What does the SUPERNATURAL tag do? The wiki claims that it gives a creature access to all secrets of a corresponding sphere, yet it doesn't seem to do that in 42.xx.
I have seen demons with the death sphere that know like 24 versions of necromancy in the legends viewer in this version (you know SECRET_01, SECRET_02) what it calls the necromancer secrets, so it does work, at least for them.
interesting!
Perhaps they have to have it at the beginning of world gen to have the secret?
Were they labeled as having access to it in legends viewer? (thats how I found that out with demons)
are you still going to add haunted furniture,Stalkers and Grendel in the future, or have you decided against those creatures for some reason? And if and when you add animated furniture, does that mean that interactions will be able to affect items and transform creatures into items and vice versa?
gdc talk (http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1023372/Practices-in-Procedural)
Here:Hmm, seeing the "raws", so to speak, for the myth generator, I gotta ask - once it's added to the game, will modders need to add their own creatures and such to the file itself, or will sentient, civilized races be automatically pulled from the raws into the myths in-game without having to create any additional files?gdc talk (http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1023372/Practices-in-Procedural)
And once again, the example of what "wild magic" means comes down to "it has a 20% chance of killing everyone nearby." Whenever I ask what "wild magic" means in terms of something that can actually be in a game, it always comes down to "it kills your dwarves if you use it". This isn't complex behavior, it's just a random game over if you're stupid enough to use the system.
Again, DF is fundamentally a game of managed risk. ...
stuff
How do you plan on dealing with introducing a variety of magical abilities as the development progresses? I mean, I imagine you wouldn't be able to make one big fancy magic release with all the types of magic possible, as probably a lot of these things need to be programmed in and have a modicum of balancing, on the other hand, I can imagine that you might want to keep people on their toes when it comes to new features in magic. Is it going to be handled like hidden fun stuff? Or are you going to nicely put into the release notes 'transfiguration into aquatic animals is now possible'?
How do you plan on dealing with introducing a variety of magical abilities as the development progresses? I mean, I imagine you wouldn't be able to make one big fancy magic release with all the types of magic possible, as probably a lot of these things need to be programmed in and have a modicum of balancing, on the other hand, I can imagine that you might want to keep people on their toes when it comes to new features in magic. Is it going to be handled like hidden fun stuff? Or are you going to nicely put into the release notes 'transfiguration into aquatic animals is now possible'?
snip
Tis a prototype friend, I have a feeling it will make more sense later on. Also as stated many times before people like magic that doesn't always work the way you expect it (including toady).
Also what if by "turn into plant" it means to turn into an ent type creature.
I think you are coming up with the worst possibilities and assuming that's what it means.
All I want is to get a few dwarves to practice their <magic projectile> throwing for three years until they become unstoppable engines of destruction, is that too much to ask?
also about the plant.Tis a prototype friend, I have a feeling it will make more sense later on. Also as stated many times before people like magic that doesn't always work the way you expect it (including toady).
Also what if by "turn into plant" it means to turn into an ent type creature.
I think you are coming up with the worst possibilities and assuming that's what it means.
Yes, I am thinking things through to their worst possibilities, and considering their implications. That's called "forethought". It's clear I need to share it with some of you, because without considering and answering those implications, they will come to pass.
The thing I'm repeating again and again is that "magic that doesn't always work the way you expect it" almost invariably means "kills anyone who uses it" in this game. See my previous arguments on that subject.
And yes, it's a prototype, but only a prototype of throwing text strings together, not of an actual magic system. None of this nullifies my main point, which is that any sort of magical effect that requires anything more than "shoots a projectile at the bad guys that does bad stuff to them" requires orders of magnitude more time making the AI not kill itself with it than it takes to actually come up with the effect, itself.
Toady cannot introduce full-fledged doesn't-kill-anyone-who-uses-it magical effects at anything more than a once-a-month trickle for as long as he needs to write whole new chunks of AI to actually handle creatures using it even remotely intelligently. During which time, we as players will inevitably come up with more ways to abuse that magic safely (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=113638.msg3467511#msg3467511) than it will actually threaten us with it's so-called "unpredictability".
Yes, have your wizards turn themselves into food. And I thought drinking people in cages in mugs was enough. o3o
Anyway, I'm not going to respond to the rest of your arguments for at least a day or two so that I actually have time to respond to other people. Please stop posting the same things repeatedly to get my attention, I saw them the first time. It takes more time to respond to a one-sentence statement with no thought put into the consequence than it takes to write the novella of consequences that one-sentence statement would bring with it. If you want more overwrought responses to simple questions in the meantime, avail yourself of Randall Munroe's collection (https://what-if.xkcd.com/1/). His way of thinking is a good way of thinking if you want to understand the consequences of adding bizarre, arbitrary changes into the world.
I actually think having my fishermen, hunters, herbalists and woodcutters be able to turn into trees when 300 goblins suddenly turn up might improve their life expectancy considerably.Just hope ALL your woodcutters Pick up that spell, Otherwise You may end up with Quite a few "Dwarf_Wood_Items".
-- Sudden image of projectile vomit hitting goblins as they pass through a seemingly ordinary grove of trees...
Does this work?
gdc talk (http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1023372/Practices-in-Procedural)
It has the "free content" tag on it, so I'm vaguely optimistic it'll work for some people.
I'll admit that I've done a bit of TLDR in this thread lately, for which I apologize, but I'll link this in case anyone talking or wondering about magic hasn't seen it yet:Does this work?
gdc talk (http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1023372/Practices-in-Procedural)
It has the "free content" tag on it, so I'm vaguely optimistic it'll work for some people.
It's regarding the myth generator, but it gives hints on how Toady might approach adding magic. For instance, a force associated with shadows might give access to "douse flames" or "deepen shadows" spells or the ability to see in the dark. And as far as a chaotic side of magic, or a chance of failure, it seems that being interrupted or otherwise botching the attempt will make the spell itself fizzle and then potentially alter something in the spell caster, like making them lose their sense of self, or becoming more dream-like, whatever that is.
I think the brothers will come up with a list of spells and abilities, assign them relationships to spheres, and then the gods/beings/powers associated with the spheres will allow their followers to cast those spells. They will also come up with potential consequence of failure, and potential ways of casting (meditating, dancing, breaking a rune etc), and randomly assign it to the spells.
I actually think having my fishermen, hunters, herbalists and woodcutters be able to turn into trees when 300 goblins suddenly turn up might improve their life expectancy considerably.
-- Sudden image of projectile vomit hitting goblins as they pass through a seemingly ordinary grove of trees...
"04/06/2016 Toady One The 30 jobs per work order limit is gone. You can also set perpetual orders. It doesn't place more than one job per shop and instead of waiting to renew them it checks jobs on completion to see if they should stick around. ..." from the Download page.He mentions 'conditional workorders' seperately in the last paragraph as still upcoming, but no idea if those are defined differently. Regardless, anyone annoyed with micromanagement in DF is gonna love next release if conditional workorders make it in.
2. A follow on question in case of a "yes" is whether jobs then would sit around waiting for conditions to allow them to complete before allocation, rather than generating cancellation spam? (basically a sanity check).
Walking forward is an excellent way to get where you're going provided that you're facing the way you want to go, there are no obstacles in your way, you have legs, your feet aren't tied together, you don't walk off a cliff...
"04/06/2016 Toady One The 30 jobs per work order limit is gone. You can also set perpetual orders. It doesn't place more than one job per shop and instead of waiting to renew them it checks jobs on completion to see if they should stick around. ..." from the Download page.He mentions 'conditional workorders' seperately in the last paragraph as still upcoming, but no idea if those are defined differently. Regardless, anyone annoyed with micromanagement in DF is gonna love next release if conditional workorders make it in.
2. A follow on question in case of a "yes" is whether jobs then would sit around waiting for conditions to allow them to complete before allocation, rather than generating cancellation spam? (basically a sanity check).
As for my own question about magic, it wasn't answered, just hijacked by some people rambling about AI while all I was curious about is the deployment of these types of features over the course of the development...
Walking forward is an excellent way to get where you're going provided that you're facing the way you want to go, there are no obstacles in your way, you have legs, your feet aren't tied together, you don't walk off a cliff...
Combat styles sounds like it'll fix the ai when it comes to stupid combat at least for attacks.Combat styles will probably involves an AI that is capable of using those styles in a (sort of) reasonable fashion, but that doesn't guarantee procedurally generated magic abilities are automatically balanced as well (although one might hope they will be dealt with as well).
However the overall AI for something like a siege won't be done till he gets to the military rework which sounds like it would be around the same time as economy.
People really have been doing the turn into plant ability to death.
Combat styles sounds like it'll fix the ai when it comes to stupid combat at least for attacks.Combat styles will probably involves an AI that is capable of using those styles in a (sort of) reasonable fashion, but that doesn't guarantee procedurally generated magic abilities are automatically balanced as well (although one might hope they will be dealt with as well).
However the overall AI for something like a siege won't be done till he gets to the military rework which sounds like it would be around the same time as economy.
People really have been doing the turn into plant ability to death.
And turning into a plant CAN be lethal, as discussed ;)
In addition, it's used as an example of why magic abilities that aren't directly combat oriented, and without complicated side effect cause complications. You might take the existing size change magic (as present in were creatures) and discuss the complications of figuring out when it's a good idea to use it and when it's a really stupid one instead, assuming the spell comes under NPC control. Or, summon water to douse flames: How do I ensure the dorf doesn't use it while standing where the water will flow and drown? How will I stop dorfs from putting out fires deliberately started? And even worse, a spell generating fire in the hand of an NPC that is supposed to be allied with other NPCs that aren't fire proof? A fire spell AND a water generation spell present at the same time?
:Hmpf! Next you're going to tell us to find a horse and count its teeth rather than discuss the number in a calm, rational way! ;)
how about this
Hey toady how do you plan to handle the obvious AI implications of some spells, such as douse flames, summon water and change into plant, people have been arguing with each other over this stuff for the past few days nonstop, i'm sure you have thought of this, so can you elaborate as to how you will handle it?
there now we will all know at the end of the month.
Hmpf! Next you're going to tell us to find a horse and count its teeth rather than discuss the number in a calm, rational way! ;)Why wait that long? There are zero horses in my room, and zero horse teeth. Obviously there is a one-to-one correspondence, and each horse has one tooth.
OKAY LET'S STOP THIS NOWYou better watch out, you're looking very... drinkable.
THIS IS GETTING TOO CLOSE TO VORE FOR MY LIKING
AND I'M SURE TOADY AGREES
Right now, civs can live on past their expiration date in the form of refugees living in camps and abandoned sites. Will civs ever hunt down and kill enemy refugees? What about bandits?You can always make a Starting Seven and a couple migrant waves appear out of thin air by embarking in the dead civ's name.
I hope you get back to normal quickly Toady. Do the orders have something like always keep 100 booze on stock, or 30 in this stockpile, and 70 in that other?The stockpile part sounds complicated, UI-wise. You can achieve almost the same thing by having a small stockpile take from your large stockpile.
Ok... different topic: What kind of conditional workorders are YOU gonna set up every time you start a new fortress once this function gets in?
My main one would be 'if plump helmet > 10, brew', because I always lose track of the still.
Worth making a bug report?It is intended that every tavern must have such areas? If it is then no report is needed, if not then I guess it's simple a bug.
I don't think most people even think to create 1x1 meeting areas, I guess I'm just lazy like that.Oh come on, it's an entire tile. Your dorfs should be thankful they get so much!
Individual spaces for training dogs are literally the only instances I can think of where I use 1x1 zones. :V
Now that I've further tested out the new taverns, it seems I don't get visitors anymore. Before they would show up the instant I made a tavern zone, this time I've been waiting several years and I still haven't had a single one. And this one's actually a pretty snazzy establishment. What could be causing this?You need solid SEO and social media campaigns to get these things off the ground.
Ah right, I forgot. I use them also individually for keeping annoying pets safely away from the outside world. Again, all pasture-related. o3o
Now that I've further tested out the new taverns, it seems I don't get visitors anymore. Before they would show up the instant I made a tavern zone, this time I've been waiting several years and I still haven't had a single one. And this one's actually a pretty snazzy establishment. What could be causing this?Holy hell, so I can confirm that embarking next to an ocean (any ocean) prevents you from being able to get visitors. Like, at all. This is terrible, how has no one else caught this yet?
Do you have plans to (someday) add a way for the community to script the game using an embedded language?I'd personally imagine not. Typically adding in a scripting language to an existing project becomes a massive pain of refactoring, and for something of the scope and complexity of DF it'd likely be a massive nightmare.
I always thought it was weird how humans had "law-givers" instead of kings or queens - that seems like a name a really primitive race would give their leader - like even more primitive than goblins.It's a common enough title in human history in our own reality, typically given to leaders who historically clarified and/or unified an existing system of laws in a long lasting manner. Suleiman I of the Ottoman Empire is probably the best known example for his role in taking existing precedent from the legal decisions of preceding Ottoman sultans (who were rulers in the "his word is law" style) and using them to create a full proper legal code that lasted hundreds of years and still has influences in the existing backbone of civic laws in the regions that were at one time part of the Ottoman Empire.
Do you have plans to (someday) add a way for the community to script the game using an embedded language?I'd personally imagine not. Typically adding in a scripting language to an existing project becomes a massive pain of refactoring, and for something of the scope and complexity of DF it'd likely be a massive nightmare.
Quote from: Putnam2. What do you think about the text raws system of content generation and presentation?2. I guess it's easier to mod, but it should probably be an accepted scripting language instead. The brackets are weird and cumbersome.
c++ isn't even a scripting language lol, much less a friendly one(http://i.imgur.com/93O5Abp.jpg)
And a Happy Birthday , Toady !Well, hopefully the illness is not doing well, send those bacterial invaders to the arena and release the magma!
Hope your brother, cat and illness are going well.
Could we make elves slightly less useless? Let them forge magic weapons? Or maybe make them innatley attatched to bowmanship?
I forget people didn't add the necessary use plant product lines and brewing reactions to elves, but doing so is required for their taverns to function and have booze, and I assume for them to bring it with caravans.
Elves in fortress mode (petitioned for citizenship, that is) are interesting in that they're naturally friendly with wild animals, which makes them good animal trappers and tamers. Just make sure elves are alone when they might accidentally let that tiger loose, or they're the only one in the burrow to go set that cage trap right in front of a hungry tiger...Wait, can you actually get outsiders that do those things? I'm new at this whole visitor thing and so far I'm a bit bothered by how everyone I've seen is either a soldier, entertainer, or nerd.
Elves in fortress mode (petitioned for citizenship, that is) are interesting in that they're naturally friendly with wild animals, which makes them good animal trappers and tamers. Just make sure elves are alone when they might accidentally let that tiger loose, or they're the only one in the burrow to go set that cage trap right in front of a hungry tiger...Wait, can you actually get outsiders that do those things? I'm new at this whole visitor thing and so far I'm a bit bothered by how everyone I've seen is either a soldier, entertainer, or nerd.
There are supposed to be monster hunters as well, but they're either AWOL or very rare. Mercenaries do never petition to become citizens, as far as I understand, but entertainers do, and I think scientists do as well. When they've become full citizens (i.e. after two accepted petitions), they're full citizens you can order around just as you do with your dorfs, assign jobs, assign to all military positions (including squad leader), etc, so you accept entertainers and eventually get smiths, militia, and strands extractors out of them (somewhat deceitful recruiting tactics if you ask me, but there is nobody coming to the fortress to petition to work as a hauler (or actual craft) while waiting for the time to petition for citizenship and a real job).Elves in fortress mode (petitioned for citizenship, that is) are interesting in that they're naturally friendly with wild animals, which makes them good animal trappers and tamers. Just make sure elves are alone when they might accidentally let that tiger loose, or they're the only one in the burrow to go set that cage trap right in front of a hungry tiger...Wait, can you actually get outsiders that do those things? I'm new at this whole visitor thing and so far I'm a bit bothered by how everyone I've seen is either a soldier, entertainer, or nerd.
They can eventually petition to become full citizens after they've been long-term residents for long enough. So that means not only are common "just here to chill out" visitors not going to be useful, the ones that start off by asking to stay as a resident need time to ask for citizenship.
so you accept entertainers and eventually get smiths, militia, and strands extractors out of them (somewhat deceitful recruiting tactics if you ask me, but there is nobody coming to the fortress to petition to work as a hauler (or actual craft) while waiting for the time to petition for citizenship and a real job).
Mercenaries do never petition to become citizens, as far as I understand...
Ah, playing Adventurer and Fort in the same world, eh? ;)Mercenaries do never petition to become citizens, as far as I understand...I'm pretty sure they do.
For some reason, my visiting scholars never want to petition residency for my fort, despite the fact that it's the only one in the world left with a standing library.
Nope. Megabeasts and goblins. They didn't survive world gen.Ah, playing Adventurer and Fort in the same world, eh? ;)Mercenaries do never petition to become citizens, as far as I understand...I'm pretty sure they do.
For some reason, my visiting scholars never want to petition residency for my fort, despite the fact that it's the only one in the world left with a standing library.
I believe forum discussions have indicated mercs don't petition to become citizens, but I'll be happy to be proven wrong. I have a fortress (0.42.05) with 10 long term merc, 5(?) years since the first one petitioned for residence. Since then a fair number of performers have applied both for residence and later for citizenship, including two performance troupes. I do have a merc resident couple (merc 10 is the spouse of one of the earlier ones) that has produced kids, however, and I also have a scholar who's petitioned for residence (sufficiently late that citizenship isn't due for a while). Another scholar who stayed for a lot of years without applying for residence (apparently) left shortly before her performer spouse applied for residence, and his room lists both his and her name.Mercenaries do never petition to become citizens, as far as I understand...I'm pretty sure they do.
For some reason, my visiting scholars never want to petition residency for my fort, despite the fact that it's the only one in the world left with a standing library.
I believe forum discussions have indicated mercs don't petition to become citizens, but I'll be happy to be proven wrong. I have a fortress (0.42.05) with 10 long term merc, 5(?) years since the first one petitioned for residence. Since then a fair number of performers have applied both for residence and later for citizenship, including two performance troupes. I do have a merc resident couple (merc 10 is the spouse of one of the earlier ones) that has produced kids, however, and I also have a scholar who's petitioned for residence (sufficiently late that citizenship isn't due for a while). Another scholar who stayed for a lot of years without applying for residence (apparently) left shortly before her performer spouse applied for residence, and his room lists both his and her name.Nevermind. It was just a dancer with spear skills who I had recruited into my merc squad.
Regarding civilising, besides animal-men, why gorlaks and plump helmet men?One of the reasons dwarves can like gorlaks is for providing "stimulating conversation" - they're also tagged as BENIGN in the raws, so they're probably helpful underground dwellers, which would make them more likely to civilise than something like a troll or gnome (both of which can't even speak - gnomes atleast have intelligence on par with humans or dwarves, trolls are just big oafs) or a gremlin (they're troublemakers and tricksters by nature so realistically most races probably wouldn't take to them too well).
Are these 'test species' before you let everything intelligent civilise, or is there a "lore" reason? Like you see Gorlaks as far more likely to civilise than, say, trolls, gremlins or gnomes?
Gremlins can join your fortress as citizens if you capture and train them. After being in the fortress for a fair number of years they can/will petition for citizenship (without going via residency). Unfortunately, gremlins remain "animals" after becoming citizens, and require regular retraining, which is a royal pain since they stop coming to training sessions to a large extent (lower priority task than hauling, not to mention the bugged "interruptible" needs activities). I work around that by hacking them to be fully tame when becoming citizens. The forum reports animal people behave the same when caught and trained if tagged as exotic pets.Regarding civilising, besides animal-men, why gorlaks and plump helmet men?One of the reasons dwarves can like gorlaks is for providing "stimulating conversation" - they're also tagged as BENIGN in the raws, so they're probably helpful underground dwellers, which would make them more likely to civilise than something like a troll or gnome (both of which can't even speak - gnomes atleast have intelligence on par with humans or dwarves, trolls are just big oafs) or a gremlin (they're troublemakers and tricksters by nature so realistically most races probably wouldn't take to them too well).
Are these 'test species' before you let everything intelligent civilise, or is there a "lore" reason? Like you see Gorlaks as far more likely to civilise than, say, trolls, gremlins or gnomes?
No idea about plump helmet men, I guess since dwarves like plump helmets so much they'd also like the sentient version of them - they're also benign like the gorlaks so I'm guessing that helps.
I'm aware, I was playing as a modded race and one of the migrants came with a gremlin hunter "pet".In principle it should be possible for an unmodded migrant from one of your previous fortresses to bring a gremlin hunter pet, provided you can assign them as pets, which I haven't tried to do.
Also seems like if you have a civ that starts with trolls or similar creatures that can learn skills but cant speak, if you have them with your fort from the start they'll do some jobs, like hauling (though I notice they glitch out and perpetually "haul" an object without dropping it on the stockpile - they'll still use other objects if you draft them into the military, for some reason) - only way to turn it off and set other labors is with Dwarf Therapist - in-game they're classified as livestock but Therapist sees them as citizens. However, ones that you buy from a caravan later don't count into this and don't do anything at all as far as I'm aware, on top of that you can't set labors for them even with the Therapist, even though it still sees them as citizens.
On the other hand creatures that are "wild" but can speak on top of being able to learn seem to be classified as livestock if you buy them from merchants later, but are full-fledged fort citizens if you start with them by default - you can assign them labors as normal and they'll do them. Not sure why that is.
How big are trolls? Maybe they don't have metal armour because goblin AI hasn't figured out how to size armour for trolls yet.
If you mod them to be the size of goblins do they come with armour (meaning the weapon weilding, non-naked trolls of course)?
In principle it should be possible for an unmodded migrant from one of your previous fortresses to bring a gremlin hunter pet, provided you can assign them as pets, which I haven't tried to do.Gremlins do have PET_EXOTIC in their tokens, so I they are tradeable - though very rarely, I've only seen one pop up in a merchants caravan. Trolls and ogres don't have pet tags and neither does the modded creature I was talking about earlier, so they won't show up in caravans but they still seem to appear as migrants - I haven't gotten my modded creature to appear as a migrant yet, so I have no idea what they'd be treated as, since they don't have pet tags but are intelligent.
A fair bit of what you say seems to be based on modding creatures, and that may or may not work. As far as I understand, sapients can not be traded unless you mod that in. Animal people basically come in two flavors: wild "animals" you can't do anything with, and members of other civs that are normal civilized members of those civs, and, as such, should be able to join your fortress as well if they visit and petition (I've never had any visit).
Gremlins do random jobs (like children, but more frequently) while in the "animal" phase and can't be given jobs with DT (normally, the cheat override might let you do that), but DT can give them professions when they become citizens. In general, gremlins are an oddity systems wise as they're really too intelligent to be animals, and slavery is forbidden for dwarves. I assume this wart will somehow be addressed eventually, either with a system that handles both gremlins and wild animal people (etc.) the same and provides for a path to full, non animal, citizenship, of by getting rid of gremlins as citizens (which I think would be a shame). Trained gremlins do not engage in mischief, although there is a bug which causes doors they pass through to become "captured by an invader", which is annoying if you want to lock them, to keep eggs from being collected, for instance.
Trolls and other slow learners can't become citizens, but goblins make use of trolls (and ogres, I believe) as something between slaves and livestock. Trolls are sheared for wool, for instance, but they can also receive weapon training and attack your fortress as weapons wielders (but I haven't seen them using armor, at least not metal armor). Thus, I wouldn't be surprised if they could be used has haulers as well in goblin civs. Most trolls in a siege tend to be unarmed, but you sometimes get goblin/human/dwarf/elf recruits who are unarmed as well so it's not exclusively a slave thing.
250,000 cm3, roughly halfway between the size of a lion and a donkey, and half the size of a horse (which historically, has been armored).I don't entirely get it, why would a troll be only half the cubic size of a horse? I'd imagine they're much taller than a horse, but I don't see where all the extra size for the horse comes from.
Regarding animal people, I'm fairly sure I heard reports of players finding and buying animal people from caravans, although again it seems like you can't make them do anything even with DT.
I don't entirely get it, why would a troll be only half the cubic size of a horse? I'd imagine they're much taller than a horse, but I don't see where all the extra size for the horse comes from.
I'm not sure what you mean. Presumably, for the same reason that a lion or a donkey is much smaller than a horse, that's just the size they evolved (or were unnaturally selected) to be.Oh, that does make sense - I wasn't really aware of the larger horse breeds tbh and was wondering how a troll would actually be less dense and have less mass than a horse.
Size in this game roughly correlates to mass, since 1,000 cm3 (or, for ease of accounting, 1 dm3) = 1 kg due to how most organic materials have their densities set. Hence, it's likely Toady set animal sizes by looking up average masses.
(Note that in DF, "average" size and mass are often biased towards the larger and heavier side of things, because muscle and fat mass added on by stats seem to be added on top of the average mass, resulting in dwarves, with a supposed 60 dm3 having an actual average size of roughly 75 dm3.)
Wild horses (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Przewalski's_horse) seem to have a size more like 300kg/300dm3, and so do "light riding horses", but Toady is apparently going for "large riding horses", which can be 500 to 600 kg, while "draft horses" can go as high as 1000 kg. This correlates roughly to an Andalusian (Spanish) horse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andalusian_horse). (Meaning the "average" DF horse is actually still half the size of a clydesdale (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clydesdale_horse). This also makes them poor candidates for armored chargers, as those were larger, stronger draft breeds to be able to carry the added weight of armor and an armored rider.)
Oh, that does make sense - I wasn't really aware of the larger horse breeds tbh and was wondering how a troll would actually be less dense and have less mass than a horse.
Keep in mind that the "average" (American) Football linebacker is about 150 kg, or over twice the "average" human in this game.If association football had linebackers, it'd probably be more popular in the US :)
So long as we don't use the instrument naming scheme for them. I don't want to find out the hard way that a gnolbis or whatever turns out to be some sort of blender-halberd with bayonet and a guthook on the other end. :V
So long as we don't use the instrument naming scheme for them. I don't want to find out the hard way that a gnolbis or whatever turns out to be some sort of blender-halberd with bayonet and a guthook on the other end. :V
Yeah, I 'd assume naming-convention wise you wouldn't really need to go instrument route, due to the broad categories that weapons fall into, while instruments are a lot more niche despite their general broader categorisations, eg: you wouldn't necessarily call a Carillon a keyboard. It's a whole lot more complicated than that - but Dwarf Fortress can generate it (literally how I know the Carillon exists). Whereas, for the most part, an axe is an axe. Regardless of variance, it's function is roughly the same. I mean, all the multitudinous varieties of polearm in the world are still pretty much just polearms. I guess you could still put a Dwarven name on it in the description.
I imagine it will be quite a long time until he gets to the real crazy language things.
Can you give some insight into what circumstances cause non-sapient creatures to become historical figures in fortress mode?
Well, generally it's when they kill someone (a sapient someone), isn't it ?
About language, I think that it will part of a "Culture" arc, because there are a LOT of things to do (and very interesting one) to differenciate cultures. Look at what Ultima Ratio Regum has tried to do on this part.
But about dialogue and conversation I wondered something.
Some RPG have very advanced (of course, scripted) talks between you and your PNJ companions (such as, for example most Obsidian games), while others have very minimal or no "psychological" interaction. How do you envision interaction between you and your companion(s) ? Are you happy with the current state of this part of the game, do you plan in a middle/long term to change it, and if yes, how (=to what) ?
Can you give some insight into what circumstances cause non-sapient creatures to become historical figures in fortress mode?
Well, generally it's when they kill someone (a sapient someone), isn't it ?
Well, generally it's when they kill someone (a sapient someone), isn't it ?
That's a fairly easy one to pull off, but there is also being a child of a historical figure, being some sort of explorer or adventurer, being a leader of any kind, or making some sort of notable object whether it is an artifact or just some masterwork crafts and becoming a legendary crafter.
allowed work orders to be automatically restarted with different frequencies (always/monthly/seasonal/yearly), respecting any conditions.
Well, generally it's when they kill someone (a sapient someone), isn't it ?
That's a fairly easy one to pull off, but there is also being a child of a historical figure, being some sort of explorer or adventurer, being a leader of any kind, or making some sort of notable object whether it is an artifact or just some masterwork crafts and becoming a legendary crafter.About language, I think that it will part of a "Culture" arc, because there are a LOT of things to do (and very interesting one) to differenciate cultures. Look at what Ultima Ratio Regum has tried to do on this part.
But about dialogue and conversation I wondered something.
Some RPG have very advanced (of course, scripted) talks between you and your PNJ companions (such as, for example most Obsidian games), while others have very minimal or no "psychological" interaction. How do you envision interaction between you and your companion(s) ? Are you happy with the current state of this part of the game, do you plan in a middle/long term to change it, and if yes, how (=to what) ?
Toady wants to allow marriage and romance at some point, and if you can have romance with anyone, why not your followers?
In any event, as long as there's a Language Arc in the future, I can't imagine there isn't further rewrites of dialogue that will go with it.
About the language arc, I wonder if toady is still planning to procedurally generate actual text snippets/paragraphs in books for players to translate or if he has completely decided that that probably isn't "doable", it wouldn't surprise me if he still wanted to accomplish it, he isn't one to shy away from something so challenging.
Well, generally it's when they kill someone (a sapient someone), isn't it ?
That's a fairly easy one to pull off, but there is also being a child of a historical figure, being some sort of explorer or adventurer, being a leader of any kind, or making some sort of notable object whether it is an artifact or just some masterwork crafts and becoming a legendary crafter.About language, I think that it will part of a "Culture" arc, because there are a LOT of things to do (and very interesting one) to differenciate cultures. Look at what Ultima Ratio Regum has tried to do on this part.
But about dialogue and conversation I wondered something.
Some RPG have very advanced (of course, scripted) talks between you and your PNJ companions (such as, for example most Obsidian games), while others have very minimal or no "psychological" interaction. How do you envision interaction between you and your companion(s) ? Are you happy with the current state of this part of the game, do you plan in a middle/long term to change it, and if yes, how (=to what) ?
Toady wants to allow marriage and romance at some point, and if you can have romance with anyone, why not your followers?
In any event, as long as there's a Language Arc in the future, I can't imagine there isn't further rewrites of dialogue that will go with it.
About the language arc, I wonder if toady is still planning to procedurally generate actual text snippets/paragraphs in books for players to translate or if he has completely decided that that probably isn't "doable", it wouldn't surprise me if he still wanted to accomplish it, he isn't one to shy away from something so challenging.
Will human residents drink water instead of booze?If you go halfway across the world to a legendary dwarven tavern, would you drink water instead of booze?
Hey, if dwarves understood the motivations of humans, they'd probably get sieged less often.Will human residents drink water instead of booze?If you go halfway across the world to a legendary dwarven tavern, would you drink water instead of booze?
Historically, there was reason not to drink the water, what with people dumping their sewage into the same waters their wells were connected to and all. The brewing process killed the germs, whether that was alcohol or tea or later coffee, since it involved getting water up to or at least near boiling.
Europeans drank either (weak) alcoholic drinks or (herbal) teas in the time period DF is constrained to.
If you're talking about adding more drinks, then adding tea brewing makes more sense.
I've been doing some math about possible tile sizes. It takes an average dwarf 9 ticks to walk 1 tile, which equates to 10 meters at WolframAlpha's 2.5 mph estimate. This means the map sizes in the "Create World" menu are Wales, Israel, Portugal, Germany, and Iran. A standard 4x4 embark is about 910 acres, and with 200 dwarves, that's about average (142 people per square mile) population density. Does 10x10 make more sense than 2x2 tile sizes?Dwarves have shorter legs than humans, so are probably slower. They probably aren't in much a hurry to begin with. It's not a good idea to work backwards from speed when we don't know how fast a dwarf should be.
*DG was unfocused after being unable to sample a suitably quixotic tea preference for too long*If you're that unfocused, are you sure that was tea?
I've been doing some math about possible tile sizes. It takes an average dwarf 9 ticks to walk 1 tile, which equates to 10 meters at WolframAlpha's 2.5 mph estimate. This means the map sizes in the "Create World" menu are Wales, Israel, Portugal, Germany, and Iran. A standard 4x4 embark is about 910 acres, and with 200 dwarves, that's about average (142 people per square mile) population density. Does 10x10 make more sense than 2x2 tile sizes?Dwarves have shorter legs than humans, so are probably slower. They probably aren't in much a hurry to begin with. It's not a good idea to work backwards from speed when we don't know how fast a dwarf should be.
Tiles have been loosely defined as 2 meters wide, at least until Toady decides to rework them. Creatures and items have been given definitive volumes in the raws, but that's useless when everything fits in one tile.
Also, Fortress mode ticks are 72 seconds, not 1 second, so by that math each tile should be 724 meters.One seed per tile makes so much more sense if the tiles are 724 meters on a side!
Also, Fortress mode ticks are 72 seconds, not 1 second, so by that math each tile should be 724 meters.One seed per tile makes so much more sense if the tiles are 724 meters on a side!
This argument comes and goes. I've taken every side on it; I've been the dog (http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Q_Continuum). I've finally come to the conclusion that Dwarf Fortress simply isn't too concerned with scalar issues and focuses instead on events and narrative, making sacrifices where nessisary to maintain some level of functionality.The game needs dwarves to take several ticks to get from one tile to another simply so that some other "fast" creatures can move across the screen faster than dwarves without skipping tiles in the middle. If that seems game-y, too bad.
As a result, there's no real answer to the question of "how big the world is." It goes from the pole to the equator, and (generally) is about as wide.
Unfortunately, that never ends the argument. It'll quiet down in time.
I've been doing some math about possible tile sizes. It takes an average dwarf 9 ticks to walk 1 tile, which equates to 10 meters at WolframAlpha's 2.5 mph estimate. This means the map sizes in the "Create World" menu are Wales, Israel, Portugal, Germany, and Iran. A standard 4x4 embark is about 910 acres, and with 200 dwarves, that's about average (142 people per square mile) population density. Does 10x10 make more sense than 2x2 tile sizes?Dwarves have shorter legs than humans, so are probably slower. They probably aren't in much a hurry to begin with. It's not a good idea to work backwards from speed when we don't know how fast a dwarf should be.
[APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:STANDARD_BIPED_GAITS:900:711:521:293:1900:2900] 30 kph
I've been doing some math about possible tile sizes. It takes an average dwarf 9 ticks to walk 1 tile, which equates to 10 meters at WolframAlpha's 2.5 mph estimate. This means the map sizes in the "Create World" menu are Wales, Israel, Portugal, Germany, and Iran. A standard 4x4 embark is about 910 acres, and with 200 dwarves, that's about average (142 people per square mile) population density. Does 10x10 make more sense than 2x2 tile sizes?
4-5 mph is a jog. Have you ever walked on a treadmill before?
I've been doing some math about possible tile sizes. It takes an average dwarf 9 ticks to walk 1 tile, which equates to 10 meters at WolframAlpha's 2.5 mph estimate. This means the map sizes in the "Create World" menu are Wales, Israel, Portugal, Germany, and Iran. A standard 4x4 embark is about 910 acres, and with 200 dwarves, that's about average (142 people per square mile) population density. Does 10x10 make more sense than 2x2 tile sizes?Dwarves have shorter legs than humans, so are probably slower. They probably aren't in much a hurry to begin with. It's not a good idea to work backwards from speed when we don't know how fast a dwarf should be.
Tiles have been loosely defined as 2 meters wide, at least until Toady decides to rework them. Creatures and items have been given definitive volumes in the raws, but that's useless when everything fits in one tile.
What kinds of questions do you prefer receiving in the FotF thread?
1. When will (known bug or existing feature) be fixed/changed?
2. Is (behavior) intended?
3. What are your plans for (new feature)?
4. Please elaborate on (thing you've said you're working on right now).
Seeing as there are hidden features that get added in some updates, why don't they also get hidden in legends?
Didn't take long for someone to just view legends and figure that out and tell everyone else about it.
When might ceremonies, celebration and competitions make it into fort mode and might we be able to specify the details of it much like artwork?
Mainly just want something else to do in fort mode that's a bit of roleplay.
Boats and multitile monsters seem to be the biggest challenge to implement yet z levels don't feel like they're one step down movement wise because of the change in stone layers, what might be the area of a square and the hight of a z level?
Well that might be a bit confusing, mainly just want to know how big monsters and boats might be and thats if they they span z levels.
Adventure mode comes closer to fort mode in terms of ability though will their time scales be brought closer and what might that mean for fort mode with the speed of jobs etc?
The map areas are 46x46 (at least I remember them being about that), would it be possible for the caverns to be inactive till they're breached or if it's not able to be done what would be the constraints?
How's the 64 bit coming if that has been worked on as of yet and how would you describe of what needs to be done in moving DF from 32 bit to 64 bit?
So, we'll be able to clamber up a mountain and make a site in the literal middle of nowhere, awesome, they're roughly the same as camps so we have an idea of the behavior there, can't travel through them as expected.
You mentioned "up to 3x3" so I assume we can choose the size of our sites on creation. Will it take into account things like the agility/innate abilities of our adventurers during the construction process? Oftentimes when using advfort to build I made use of my ability to just scale walls and jump gaps or even fly with certain races, or is that mostly abstracted during the composition/travel/rest screen cutaway?
'Maximum Fantasy' setting will offer us a variety of procedurally generated races. Does that mean the Mythgen release will open up "Fortress Mode" to other types of site management modes (cities, pits, forest retreats, etc)? Or will the system arrange to always have an underground dwelling fortress building civ available? Or not and just let you play adventurer instead?
With the coming mythic changes, will there be ways in which myths can "decay"? That is, portals to different dimensions shut down forever, schools of magic forever lost, or once mythic and legendary things turning mundane when their "magic energy source" is cut off. (Such as a city on a floating island turning into a mere plateau, or the edge of a discworld turning into merely a chain of really stormy areas of sea on a globe with undiscovered continents.)
For that matter, you mentioned concepts like myths from different creatures/cultures that oppose, and some of which may or may not be true. If there are conflicting myths, will it be possible for us as players to affect whether they are true or not? (To dip into the more Elder Scrolls style mythic, where reality is partly subjective, belief or disbelief can grant or strip away divinity.) If I lead a crusade to wipe out believers of a contradictory myth, can I make that myth untrue, and take away its magical power? Can we, in play, make new myths, or shape existing ones in other ways?
You've mentioned a "fantasy rating" for worldgen. Do you think that will be in for the first release with myths, or is that for later?
So, the system for playing as a bard in this game is amazing, you can write music play instruments get people all happy, dance, do poems, play music, pretty much whatever you want however, people don't get bored when you play the same song five thousand times, and they don't throw money at you when you play really well, and if you are bad, they don't try to, for example throw you out of the tavern, do you plan to make it so people can become bored if you play the same song five thousand times (especially if the song is described as not even being very good in general) and get upset if you play really bad (or really crappy songs), or will people always be perpetually entertained by the same song (even if its a "badly written" song) and not throw you out of taverns for playing badly..?
Will nations ever effect the terrain around them? Like say, a bunch of goblins dam off a river to make a lake, but years later the dam bursts, flooding the river valley?
will it eventually be possible to start civilizations instead of merely being extensions of existing ones?
With visitors coming to the fortress will there be bandits and animal people that are armed that might wander into the map only to cross it or vist?
Might get bandits already but they only appear to belong to goblins.
Theres groups of bards so when might there be groups of scholars, mercenaries and adventures?
These groups or visitors that are residents living in our fort, being able to go offsite and coming back latter like scholars going elsewhere to meet others is this something to be done under Fortress Starting Scenarios when that deals with this type of stuff more indepth?
With the new myth system will this allow dragons and other megabeasts to be semi random?
When might more weather be added to regions like magical mist and fog that covers the whole region most of the time?
So why did being blind or having a lack of eyes only effect vision range and not being truly blind, though there appears to be sound and other senses?
When was the last time you had a good play through of fort mode if you can remember?
Quote from: DirstHi Toady, I can see building a world directly from the raws, and going full Gray Goo with procedural generation... but I am interested in the settings in between. Do you envision the player being able to give any direction to the randomness, in essence increasing the scope of advanced world generation? Or will it start out as just an increasing fraction of the raw content being replaced by generated content?
I'm also curious from where the generated content comes. Is it a shuffled form of the raws?Quote from: Urlance WoolsbaneThe GDC myth-generator video shows that randomized races are in the pipeline. Will users be able to influence the random elements, and if so, by how much?
Will the player be able to read a creation story with 100% fantasy and one with 0% fantasy and be able to tell which is which?
If animals ever get a rehaul to count individuals on a global scale migrationally etc. etc, would mundane animals that could survive the semi-cold and dark environment (grizzly bears for instance) inhabit sections of the caverns via non-megabeast guarded cave entrances? this may be additionally relevant to 0% fantastical worlds in which mundane flora may have room to breathe and expand onto the landscape and serve as a sanctuary from high aboveground settlement & hunting
Usually fantasy worlds are ranked by "magic prevalence"(which you have) and "really chaotic magic to extremely consistent controlled magic", with the extreme end of the chaos scale to the right being that magic can essentially be studied as a science and is perfectly consistent, the extreme left of the scale is where magic is extremely unpredictable and dangerous, do you plan to add a "How chaotic is magic" scale in addition to the magical prevalence scale? OR will we just have the prevalence scale.
What does the SUPERNATURAL tag do? The wiki claims that it gives a creature access to all secrets of a corresponding sphere, yet it doesn't seem to do that in 42.xx.
will modders need to add their own creatures and such to the file itself, or will sentient, civilized races be automatically pulled from the raws into the myths in-game without having to create any additional files?
Why don't elves have fairs?
Taverns are two-story. Towers and keeps are multi-story. Will other buildings like houses or shops be multi-story in the future?
Is there a comprehensive list of divine materials in the game, but only some of them actually get generated? I've noticed that a few metals/fabrics are always the same combination of descriptor and sphere. Examples: sonorous lines/music, twisting metal/chaos.
Quote from: therahedwigHow do you plan on dealing with introducing a variety of magical abilities as the development progresses? I mean, I imagine you wouldn't be able to make one big fancy magic release with all the types of magic possible, as probably a lot of these things need to be programmed in and have a modicum of balancing, on the other hand, I can imagine that you might want to keep people on their toes when it comes to new features in magic. Is it going to be handled like hidden fun stuff? Or are you going to nicely put into the release notes 'transfiguration into aquatic animals is now possible'?Quote from: UntrustedlifeHey toady how do you plan to handle the obvious AI implications of some spells, such as douse flames, summon water and change into plant, people have been arguing with each other over this stuff for the past few days nonstop, i'm sure you have thought of this, so can you elaborate as to how you will handle it?
So toady, will the artifact release be the release with the first iteration of the myth/magic system generator? And will you ever release the prototype so we can play with it?
What was with the [AMBUSHER] tag being removed from goblins?
Seems like there might be a bit too many of them...
What makes people become monster hunters and mercenaries?
A few questions more to do with "timeline".
What release might the mounts be more usable for combat?
Animal care really has been a useless skill so whats been stopping dwarfs from caring for animals?
Armor for animals how much armor could we cover of a dragon without immobilising it or would there be some special armor designs for animals that would be ideal to have it?
1. Does this means perpetual jobs stick around even if the previous attempt failed (Current example: The collect web job on repeat will be removed if someone happens to destroy a random piece of web the job happened to have selected for collection)? I'd prefer the answer to be "yes" of course.
2. A follow on question in case of a "yes" is whether jobs then would sit around waiting for conditions to allow them to complete before allocation, rather than generating cancellation spam? (basically a sanity check).
3. A third follow on question in case of a "yes" to the second one is whether these conditionally suspended jobs would act as suspended jobs do currently, or whether they would act as unallocated jobs do currently, i.e. whether they would just be passed by until "activated" by conditions being met, or would sit at the top of the queue blocking orders below them until fulfilled?
With the myth generator, is it expected to ever be possible that the world mythology will involve the world being a disc floating in space (this has, I think, been asked before)? If so, my question is, if the myth level is sufficiently high that this is the reality, will it be possible to dig through the earth completely and arrive on the other side, involving falling through the void/flipping gravity to walk on the other side/something else interesting happening that would not happen in non-disc worlds?
Right now, civs can live on past their expiration date in the form of refugees living in camps and abandoned sites. Will civs ever hunt down and kill enemy refugees? What about bandits?
Will a civ ever be "dead enough" that it will no longer be an option at embark, but still appear in Legends? Can a later group, which may or may not have any blood relation to the members of the dead civ, claim to "re-establish" that civ in the context of cutting ties with its real parent civ?
Do the orders have something like always keep 100 booze on stock, or 30 in this stockpile, and 70 in that other?
This seems obvious looking back but I can't confirm it as an absolute rule: do bandits only mug citizens in an area with/around a well?
Will all structures eventually appear in all settlements? Will we get temples in human dark fortresses and actual dungeons in goblin towns?
Regarding civilising, besides animal-men, why gorlaks and plump helmet men?
Are these 'test species' before you let everything intelligent civilise, or is there a "lore" reason? Like you see Gorlaks as far more likely to civilise than, say, trolls, gremlins or gnomes?
What are your thoughts on wholesale procedurally generating weapons and armour by culture? As an example, in one world your typical Dwarven civilisation’s armoury would have the equivalent of a cup-hilted Gladius, with double edged, straight, short wide blade, and they’d be more prone to wearing crested round top caps. In another they’d be forging cross-guarded single edged elongated kukri-style curved blades and their head -gear would be flat-topped crusader style full helms.
Can you give some insight into what circumstances cause non-sapient creatures to become historical figures in fortress mode?
...
I had a weasel become a historical figure after doing nothing except chill in a cage and get re-trained every time he reverted to wild. Eventually he died of old age. When I checked legends later, he was a historical figure.
We're also seeing some strange behavior in the Accelerated Modest Mod which suggests that a lot more critters are historical figures than would have been in 40.x.
Some RPG have very advanced (of course, scripted) talks between you and your PNJ companions (such as, for example most Obsidian games), while others have very minimal or no "psychological" interaction. How do you envision interaction between you and your companion(s) ? Are you happy with the current state of this part of the game, do you plan in a middle/long term to change it, and if yes, how (=to what) ?
Any conditions? What kind of range is that 'any'? What is the craziest condition you implemented, or will be possible with your implementation?
With the upcoming myth generator it looks like random playable creatures can have all kinds of properties. Will dwarves ever start with things like immortality, lack of thirst, or lack of alcohol dependency; or are the creatures in the raws going to remain more static?
Quote from: NW_KohakuWith the coming mythic changes, will there be ways in which myths can "decay"? That is, portals to different dimensions shut down forever, schools of magic forever lost, or once mythic and legendary things turning mundane when their "magic energy source" is cut off. (Such as a city on a floating island turning into a mere plateau, or the edge of a discworld turning into merely a chain of really stormy areas of sea on a globe with undiscovered continents.)
For that matter, you mentioned concepts like myths from different creatures/cultures that oppose, and some of which may or may not be true. If there are conflicting myths, will it be possible for us as players to affect whether they are true or not? (To dip into the more Elder Scrolls style mythic, where reality is partly subjective, belief or disbelief can grant or strip away divinity.) If I lead a crusade to wipe out believers of a contradictory myth, can I make that myth untrue, and take away its magical power? Can we, in play, make new myths, or shape existing ones in other ways?
Yeah, some of it happens naturally, just because in a game where things die and are tracked numerically, that tends to be how the world goes if you don't put in some effort at restoration. We have put some thought into this though -- even in the original Armok, we were hoping to have different courses available for the universe, whether it's fading out, or cyclic, or apocalyptic, or stuck in some perpetual gothic nightmare.
For elements where the default state is "permanent part of the world", it'll take some directed work. The notes we've drawn up from our various inspirations include some rules for change and some power-sourcing, so I'm hopeful we'll have some of this before the end of time. At the same time, it would be cool to have, say, a way that the world could become awakened to magic or connected to another reality as well. I'd like change to be possible, since it is good for stories, but what we'll actually accomplish is unknown.
I'm not personally inclined toward the "belief creates reality" model, but as a fantasy world simulator, DF should probably keep it in mind since it comes up often enough, and it would be funny to watch the ebb and flow of that in a computer simulation that doesn't have any escape hatch when things go horrible wrong. It has some overhead calculations, but those can probably be folded into whatever schism and other demographic calculations we end up needed when we get further with religions in general. But like most things, there's aren't particular plans. In terms of myth creation, we just have those megabeast superstitions in world gen right now. In the 0% fantasy setting, the myths will have to come from somewhere, though when we'll have new ones in play vs. ones that cultures start with is also hard to say. There's a lot to do.
This FOTF reply is packed to the brim with interesting information, thanks toady!
Treating magic as an actual "individual" is a pretty interesting idea!
This FOTF reply is packed to the brim with interesting information, thanks toady!
Treating magic as an actual "individual" is a pretty interesting idea!
Unfortunately, that only applies to player adventurers. Players can learn how to game the system to learn more quickly, but by definition, the AI will not, which means it will be a handicap for your opponents, your followers, and everyone in Fortress Mode.
Toady seems to be going the "only adding one or two hardcoded things maybe twice a year that can be at least marginally balanced, with a need for rebalances after players perform alpha testing over the next few years" model that vampires/werecritters/bogeymen/necromancers went through for magic, which is definitely better than "let's just open the floodgates and let the game be completely crazy gibberish when the AI has a million magic effects it doesn't understand how to use" magic system. That, at least, is like I hoped and expected.
That said, it's more than slightly distressing that Toady says he's deliberately adding something that he fully expects players will find "unsatisfying" in Fortress Mode because it's nothing more than a "your fort gets destroyed because LOL RANDUM MAGIC!" "feature", but I guess for a while, there will just be a magic system you simply have to turn off if you want your game to behave sanely in Fortress Mode. I suppose that's how the old economy worked or the old HFS worked before both of those were removed.
Reputations work the same with player adventurers that they do for AI, so the AI could become "familiar" with the magic aswell. SO they will be able to use it, just not be able to "exploit" it like players, which is fine.
AI is always at a disadvantage to players but the fact that they will be able to use it at least partially sanely at all is awesome.
Again, it raises questions of how you could reasonably implement a system for AI learning this stuff. Either they always know how to use their powers (which would be put the player at a disadvantage until they learn the system, but be generally reasonable for gameplay balance,) or they have to learn by gaining "experience" with a system that will kill them because they don't learn that eating meat angers the spirit enough to make their spells backfire until they hit level 10 magic lore.
You say that "you're fine with it" if the AI doesn't know how to handle the system, but have you actually really put thought into what that means? A system this wild can almost invariably wind up having easily "cheesed" magic users. (Just look at how you can turn into a vampire to make yourself invisible to the otherwise virtually-impossible-to-beat zombies so you can casually walk up and nonchalantly snap necromancer necks at your leisure. That's just a taste of what expanded magic that the AI doesn't understand will produce.)
Thanks, Toady!
Now, I was wondering about worldgen events becoming myths. Is this something you've considered?
(Or am I misunderstanding the myth generator?)
Thanks, Toady!
Now, I was wondering about worldgen events becoming myths. Is this something you've considered?
(Or am I misunderstanding the myth generator?)
Lame. I don't need to do that [i]at all[/i].
You are putting words in my mouth and that isnt cool, I said I'm fine with the AI not being able to exploit magic like players can, I didn't ever say I'm fine with them not knowing how to use it, nor did I say i'm fine with them running around killing themselves with it, obviously its not a good thing if they don't know how to use it.
Sure, it might be broken at first, yes toady needs to consider these things, but no, i'm not worried that it will destroy the game and the game will die because toady is too ambitious. Yes he needs to make them really smart if he wants it to not break the game, which is why he mentioned he probably will rewrite the whole usage hints system to prevent these kinds of idiotic things I am not denying that.
Yes you have a good point, but no I don't think toady will destroy his game.
You construe things I say to mean things that I dont actually mean, when I say "partially sane" I meant that they won't kill themselves with it. I didnt mean, "oh yeah its totally okay if they kill themselves with it.", I want them to be smart enough to use it sanely, however I am totally fine with them not being able to exploit it like players can, you cannot write an AI that can exploit things the way a player can in almost any situation, there is a reason the AI in the game "civilization" cheats. ANd why the AI in df will probably need to have some sort of advantage.
This is an issue I never thought about, currently the only AI in the game that actually eats is the dwarf mode AI. Creatures in adventure mode dont actually eat (except the player). But letting them always know their powers does seem reasonable enough and is probably the only way to do it without a massive amount of work.Again, "thinking about it" is what I'm trying to push...
Lame. I don't need to do that [i]at all[/i].Nonbreaking [b]spaces[/b] ftw!
I was thinking the same thing.Spoiler: squicky consequences of strawberry plants (click to show/hide)
Firstly, the argument presumes transformation takes place with corresponding parts to corresponding parts (where is a strawberry plant's brain located?), rather than some vague transformation of the whole.I was thinking the same thing.Spoiler: squicky consequences of strawberry plants (click to show/hide)
The dwarf picks a strawberry.
The strawberry plant's geldables are torn away.
"Oh hey, you got me a bouquet of plant dicks! How romantic!"
Firstly, the argument presumes transformation takes place with corresponding parts to corresponding parts (where is a strawberry plant's brain located?), rather than some vague transformation of the whole.
Secondly, while flowers sort of correspond to genitalia, they're single use, and many plants (including strawberries) produce multiple reproduction units, so a more reasonable correspondence would be temporary sterility (because the next egg/current set of sperms is lost). One might consider miscarriage as well, but fruits are evolved to be eaten as a means of spreading the seeds (which often survive the passage through the digestive tract and then gets planted together with a lot of nutrients), while children are not. I doubt seeds of this magical strawberry would be viable when "planted", though...
Thus, I'd say the loss of a finger (or toe, or ear) would be a suitable representation of loss of "essence", as temporary sterility means nothing in game play terms (even less than fatigue).
The change in biomass during transformation makes the whole thing silly anyway. It's magic.
Toady, would having unpredictable and dangerous magic be discovered in fortress mode really be a bad thing? Setting up a library, and presumably letting people into it who ponder magical things, would be a player choice. If the fact that things could go horribly horribly wrong was known then it would just be another thing that could be really... !!FUN!!
I realize this could also be rather frustrating in some ways, but from my personal perspective I find the idea of engineering around the problem really entertaining. I would be tickled pink if I got to design a series of "containment protocols"
It is interesting when a magical system has a specific logic to it. It doesn't have to, and indeed shouldn't, correspond to the real-world logic. But still. XP
A suitable representation of "essence loss". A loss of a finger probably doesn't have any game play effect, but losing too many on one hand at least should have an effect. If hair had any use, I could easily accept all or parts of it falling out (or growing white/grey/purple...). If we're dealing with replaceable stuff that provides a game play penalty, blood loss might have done it, but it won't cut it with the current implementation. If we're dealing with what's currently available, a finger "mangled beyond recognition" might do it. Permanent destruction of the reproductive system is too harsh on one end, as most players probably don't want to give that up, even it it actually isn't used, and too lenient on the other end (once the payment for the license has been made, any subsequent magic abuse is free).
And yes, auto repair on transformation makes things easy. However:
"Visit the Deepstubborn regenerative clinic, now using the acclaimed 'Strawberry' regenerative technique. No ailment too severe to treat*
*Death not included. Nor are...".
Crutch walking would be a useless skill, unless the magic belongs to some advanced tier requiring a lot of research to master.
the "belief creates reality" modelWell when you simplify it that much, it doesn't sound very deep, does it? I think he meant more about divinity being a state of mind rather than some some "I believe it so it's true" 40k ork thing. The sort of stuff that comes up in the (currently growing in popularity) more mystic fantasy which draws heavily on Indian myth for inspiration. Like the works of Kirkbride, which I believe he was referring to, or something like Kill Six Billion Demons. From stuff you've talked about, I know most of your fantasy reading tends to be grounded in a more western paradigm, but have you kept up with other fantasy movements like this? If not, it might interest you to at least read what there is of the K6BD comic, and/or perhaps the roleplaying game. Of course there's a lot more writings to go with that, which is common to the subgenre such as it is, but that's more peripheral.
Even the most magical of thinking, however, is based upon, if not real logic, at least association as a form of pseudo-logic. Feathers are associated with flying creatures, so magic involving flight that uses material components tends to incorporate feathers. (And in earlier times, people would assume that if you wanted to make a flying machine, it would be better to at least paint some feathers on it, because that would give it the strength of birds through symbolism. Sort of like painting something red to make it go faster...)
Toady, would having unpredictable and dangerous magic be discovered in fortress mode really be a bad thing? Setting up a library, and presumably letting people into it who ponder magical things, would be a player choice. If the fact that things could go horribly horribly wrong was known then it would just be another thing that could be really... !!FUN!!
I realize this could also be rather frustrating in some ways, but from my personal perspective I find the idea of engineering around the problem really entertaining. I would be tickled pink if I got to design a series of "containment protocols" and I would love to have a fortress end something like,
Even the most magical of thinking, however, is based upon, if not real logic, at least association as a form of pseudo-logic. Feathers are associated with flying creatures, so magic involving flight that uses material components tends to incorporate feathers. (And in earlier times, people would assume that if you wanted to make a flying machine, it would be better to at least paint some feathers on it, because that would give it the strength of birds through symbolism. Sort of like painting something red to make it go faster...)
Even then, a magic system can have a method to it. Still, like I said, I suggested the idea of them having a logic, not being a science. Even then you can have a logic for magical functions that behaves in a scientific manner.
Though yes, when you bring soft scfi into the equation it becomes more a matter of flavor details and general themes. :V
However, again, if we're talking about needing to rewrite the AI to actually sanely handle these things, then history has proven that time spent gaming out how, exactly, these sorts of interactions are likely to be broken, and demonstrating how to pre-emptively fix those problems would be time decently well-spent, and it would also help keep people down on the ground with realistic expectations.
You talk as though DF doesn't already "cheat". DF cheats when Toady has to give up on sieges being a challenge, and instead has to create 50-ton flying webbers backed up by fire-breathing T-rexes made of bronze just to keep players from steamrolling everything in the game with steel, training, and numbers that the AI can't hope to match, much less all the sundry automated traps players can throw at it. He adds amphibiousness, heat immunity, the ability to just plain make traps and pressure plates not apply to creatures, adds NO_STUN, and all sorts of other tokens that exist explicitly to counter common, easy methods of beating the AI. These are all cheats already, that all exist solely to prevent the trivialization of what few threats remain... And even that doesn't work, so the HFS has to rely upon literally infinite numbers of giant flying syndrome-spitters to keep players from trivializing colonizing the HFS.
Either they always know how to use their powers (which would be put the player at a disadvantage until they learn the system, but be generally reasonable for gameplay balance,)^
But letting them always know their powers does seem reasonable enough and is probably the only way to do it without a massive amount of work.
This isn't hyperbole. This isn't pessimism. This is pattern recognition. The AI for the new magic will be broken. It's just a question of how absurdly self-destructive it will be.
You trivialize letting DF cheat more than it already does, but what that does is ultimately make the game impossible to play without exploits. (At least, more than DF already does demand exploits...) Further, I have to ask how this could possibly be balanced when the game randomly will or won't have magic, or what magic is available is utterly random. Maybe some magic exists as a "hard counter" to another otherwise powerful magic... but just doesn't exist in this one world, so that powerful magic is now unstoppable. (To make an example using extant game mechanics, imagine if dwarves had the power to web, and no other webbing creature existed. Wouldn't that just slightly wreck game balance?)
...snip...
What I'm saying is that even "merely" asking for the AI not to kill itself with the new magic powers is still asking too much. The best we can even hope to do is find the most unavoidably self-destructive things and shout to Toady that he remember to forestall those cases and edge cases.
The AI needs to be completely sane, or the game as a whole breaks down. You're not appreciating how vital it is for the AI to be able to have at least some rough parity with the player in understanding how game mechanics work to make the game world have some sense of verisimilitude rather than dropping you out of it from the suicidally stupid dwarves finding more and more ways to kill themselves through things a toddler would understand not to do.
Yes he needs to make them really smart if he wants it to not break the game, which is why he mentioned he probably will rewrite the whole usage hints system to prevent these kinds of idiotic things I am not denying that.^
It's not putting words in your mouth, it's an examination of the likely logical consequences of what is being talked about.
I didn't make up the notion of a spell to turn yourself into a plant being put into the game, I simply listed off the many, many ways such a spell could do more harm than good in an AI that, almost definitionally, cannot make the kinds of judgements that would be required to make such an extremely situational spell do more good than harm.
Getting excited to the point where you lose your critical thought as to the consequences is exactly what I'm chiding against. You're expecting the moon, and then waving your hand and saying Toady will somehow find a way to deliver the impossible in record time. (And you're so excited for what it does in Adventurer Mode, for that matter, you don't seem to stop to consider the consequences in Fortress Mode important.)
Players will use them more creatively than NPC magic users -- that's true of everything in the game already. If you find that you lost an NPC you were chasing because it had turned itself into a strawberry plant near some other strawberry plants (because they have a routine that goes that far in the use of such an effect), then that's cool. If (when hunger etc. is implemented) you find yourself feeding a starving companion by turning yourself into a strawberry plant in a way an NPC wouldn't have thought of, then that's cool. If you end up not having a finger when you change back, then that would be cool too.
the "belief creates reality" modelWell when you simplify it that much, it doesn't sound very deep, does it? I think he meant more about divinity being a state of mind rather than some some "I believe it so it's true" 40k ork thing. The sort of stuff that comes up in the (currently growing in popularity) more mystic fantasy which draws heavily on Indian myth for inspiration. Like the works of Kirkbride, which I believe he was referring to, or something like Kill Six Billion Demons. From stuff you've talked about, I know most of your fantasy reading tends to be grounded in a more western paradigm, but have you kept up with other fantasy movements like this? If not, it might interest you to at least read what there is of the K6BD comic, and/or perhaps the roleplaying game. Of course there's a lot more writings to go with that, which is common to the subgenre such as it is, but that's more peripheral.
There is no way in hell he will be able to think of every single edge case in a game this complex no matter how hard he tries to do it. The game is unfinished, and the community has stuck around through the craziness and the craziness is part of the experience. Toady does try to think of edge cases and he has talked about this in the past, but people will always find one he hasn't thought about. It will never be perfect right off the bat, these kinds of things never are, sure you can try to get him to push for that, but it is unreasonable to expect him to somehow think of every single edge case.
Sure the community can try to help, but there will most definitely be at least one completely crazy bug no one thought about.
How am I trivializing the AI cheating? Didn't you already say the best way to keep the game balanced is to allow them to have full access to all the spells, isnt that cheating? And isn't that exactly what I said aswell?
[...]
I understand that toady needs to limit cheating but I also understand that the only way for a game to be actually challenging is to either create a genius AI or allow cheating for the AI and df will likely do the latter and does do the latter and I AM fine with that as long as the player still has a chance.
And I agree that you have to be really careful when making AI like this (as I stated earlier) , I understand that there are problems, But I want to see toady accomplish things that seem impossible (This game wouldn't exist if toady hadn't tried achieving the impossible) so encouraging it in my opinion isn't really that bad.
This is still one hell of a derail. ;w;
Yeah, this has just turned into the NW_Kohaku Yells A Lot Hour.
Yeah, this has just turned into the NW_Kohaku and Untrustedlife YellsA Lot Hour.
Don't be unfair, im yelling alot aswell.
This isn't really a question. Nonetheless, ditto. Containment protocols are a blast.
Yeah, this has just turned into the NW_Kohaku and Untrustedlife YellsA Lot Hour.
Don't be unfair, im yelling alot aswell.
All of the Magics!
That presumes there would be ways to engineer around the problem, and not, as most representations (including the one TOADY JUST GAVE) of the magic system would have it, simply having a text box pop up informing you that your fortress crumbled for no good reason because you were stupid enough to have a library. Again, I point to the 2d game, where the game ended "unsatisfyingly" because you just have a percentage chance of instant game over with no chance to engineer around anything.
Questions for Toady in lime green, like this.
The myth generator demo showed you forcing the myths to include a race and a celestial object, and the myth generator seems to need to create the gift of death to justify nonimmortal races.
Are there any plans to be able to force it to include a particular magic as well? For instance, you write up a RAW for shooting fireballs and include it in the list of things. Game reads the tags on it, and the myth generator includes something like with 'humans are spawned from the sun, so they can shoot fireballs', or 'celestial sparks hover above the ground, letting you carve fireball-shooting runestones',
Gaiz. Come on. This thread is for questions. Discussions & suggestions go in discussion & suggestion threads.
I would have to disagree that there isn't a way to do this. All the design here is a bit up in the air I admit, but I think it could look something like this and work pretty well:
Library is created and researching "terrible secrets" or something is enabled as it would be off by default. So Urist McMagescholar decides he's going to try and learn some new magic. He get the job "PONDER THAT WHICH SHOULD NOT BE." The job can have a variety of outcomes, likely distributed along a curve just like item quality.
Great: Breakthrough, leading to increase in understanding and maybe a new ability or something.
Good: Skill gain, points added to pool that might lead to breakthrough
Neutral: Nothing happens.
Bad: Urist glimpses something bad get a strong negative thought.
Very Bad: Urist glimpses something really really bad, get a strong negative thought, and becomes incredibly incurious.
Even Worse: Urist goes instantly insane
Epic Failure: Urist goes instantly berserk
Getting interesting: Urist and everyone else in the library goes instantly berserk
Hilariously Bad: Everyone nearby gets a random syndrome
Catastrophic: Urist sees that which should not be. That which should not be sees Urist, likes what it sees, and comes to visit.
!!FUN!!: Urist becomes filled with joy and gets instant legendary skill in a new dance called "The Crimson Welcoming." He immediately goes to the tavern to lead the first and only performance of this unique and beautiful work of art...
And yes, sorry to everyone else if I have to keep saying this over and over, but apparently I need to sledgehammer the notion that turning fortress mode into a slot machine is a bad idea into everybody one by one.
So, with some of the myths stating that there's like, a tower or a road to the heavens, does this mean that we will eventually be able to travel to them as physical places and kill the gods? Because some of the gods tend to be jerks, and they need to be taken down a notch.
If we can kill gods, what will that do to the world? Will creatures cursed by the gods that are killed suddenly be cured by their deaths?
The HFS is already a gateway to another dimension. A gateway to the heavens would presumably be similar, except with all those Fun vault dwellers hanging around instead of clowns. (What, did you expect them to be singing choruses in togas? This is the game where "good" means "unicorns will impale you for getting too close to their bubble grass".)
I never said that a release must be perfect, I merely cautioned against expecting it would be a release with hundreds of spells that don't cause absolute mayhem with game balance.
If you're trying to say that one shouldn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, then that's by all means an endorsement of everyone coming around to list the many possible edge case failures for Toady, even if not every one can be found, rather than dismissing such things as pessimism.
There is a limit to which cheating can be stretched without making the game impossible to play as anything other than an exploit-memorization game. An army of 50-ton steel blobs with full-body necrosis syndromes is essentially impossible for any military to defeat, and functionally requires obsidianization traps.
The cheating also needs to be balanced for both players that can randomly have access to virtually any type of magic, all types of magic, or no magic... which is an absurdly difficult ask.
Toady doesn't accomplish the (actually) impossible. At best, he accomplishes the unprecedented, but he has mainly just done things that nobody would put the time or effort into doing, or which people believed would not be popular enough to warrant doing.
What I'm opposed to is simply saying "Toady can do this thing that I can't even clearly define or have thought about all the way through, even if it's impossible because Toady does impossible stuff all the time!"
It's like saying, "Hey, people said making a plane that could go through the sound barrier was 'impossible', and now they say time machines are 'impossible', so clearly, time machines are going to exist any minute, now!" No matter what the memes say, DF isn't going to become self-aware any time soon, and DF has a nasty tendency to make memes that fans angrily stick to as though it were true. (Like, say, female dwarves with beards...) Magic, in particular, is a hotbed for asking for the impossible or the badly-thought-out, which is why it demands strong pushback to ask people to think through what they really want, and consider the impact it will have on people with different play styles than one's own.
one shouldn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good
It's more difficult to give them their own distinct voices -- we already have a lot of data to work with that would help with characterization, but the amount of writing required and the way it all has to be chopped to pieces makes it a very difficult problem.
I can see people going into the raws and replacing elves with "buttmunchers" or some other words hahaDon't give people ideas for an elf-hate modding collab.
Probably too late to be asking this, but...There been no word in the dev log that they've been working on Emotions, or stress. So, no, probably not.
Is stress going to be balanced for the next release? In a way, the experience feels slightly hollow with dwarves being perfectly content while everything is crumbling around them (plus it makes the sheriff's job real boring).
*Have you ever personalized someone into your game that you actually don't like? I know of a few people I'd add then hunt if I was developing a game...
That's true, but there could be creature types or event types that were inspired by real or fictional examples that Toady came across. For example, he might have had a classmate who insisted that everything that happened was inevitable :)
*Have you ever personalized someone into your game that you actually don't like? I know of a few people I'd add then hunt if I was developing a game...
I don't think there are any actual "characters" in the game. Only randomly generated ones with randomly generated personalities, inventories, appearances and histories.
So a few questions that are a little bit Personal :in a related point:
*Do Toady and ThreeToe get any inspiration from Tv-series / Movies and popular books that are currently in progress? Game of thrones for an example? If that's the case do you have any examples of features that have been implemented or might be planned?
*Have you ever personalized someone into your game that you actually don't like? I know of a few people I'd add then hunt if I was developing a game...
ALso
So you just added those various giant creatures, however according to the wiki there are no giant ants yet, do you plan to eventually add giant ants and associated colonies? I have a feeling they would be very fun to delve into in adventurer mode and even in fort mode.
ALso
So you just added those various giant creatures, however according to the wiki there are no giant ants yet, do you plan to eventually add giant ants and associated colonies? I have a feeling they would be very fun to delve into in adventurer mode and even in fort mode.
Could be !!FUN!! to find a bunch of them in a cave.(http://www.scifimoviepage.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/them_poster_02.jpg)
Could giant insects build colonies? Like, giant beehives and ant colonies that you can find in Adventure Mode and Fortress Mode.Seconding this. It would really add some interesting atmosphere to the world. Insect-people could build them, too. Ant fortress.
Could giant insects build colonies? Like, giant beehives and ant colonies that you can find in Adventure Mode and Fortress Mode.Seconding this. It would really add some interesting atmosphere to the world. Insect-people could build them, too. Ant fortress.
This probably belongs in a suggestion thread.
Could giant insects build colonies? Like, giant beehives and ant colonies that you can find in Adventure Mode and Fortress Mode.Seconding this. It would really add some interesting atmosphere to the world. Insect-people could build them, too. Ant fortress.
This probably belongs in a suggestion thread.
I personally was just curious if it was planned.
This isn't really a question, but I was feeling grieved at the loss of a pet, and the 43.01 release gave me a happy thought to (partially) counteract it. Thanks!
Why does carving a haft from a branch use carpentry instead of woodcrafting?I assume it's because woodcrafting isn't implemented as adventurer skill yet, so having it use carpentry was the easier way. IIRC Toady mentioned that all the old workshops and assorted crafting skills were really old (non-OO) code and would have to be completely reimplemented one by one to be used in adventurer mode.
Why does carving a haft from a branch use carpentry instead of woodcrafting?I assume it's because woodcrafting isn't implemented as adventurer skill yet, so having it use carpentry was the easier way. IIRC Toady mentioned that all the old workshops and assorted crafting skills were really old (non-OO) code and would have to be completely reimplemented one by one to be used in adventurer mode.
I can't find the specific quote, unfortunately.
Why does carving a haft from a branch use carpentry instead of woodcrafting?I assume it's because woodcrafting isn't implemented as adventurer skill yet, so having it use carpentry was the easier way. IIRC Toady mentioned that all the old workshops and assorted crafting skills were really old (non-OO) code and would have to be completely reimplemented one by one to be used in adventurer mode.
I can't find the specific quote, unfortunately.
So that you can embark next to hut full of splints to help kick start your fortress.Why does carving a haft from a branch use carpentry instead of woodcrafting?I assume it's because woodcrafting isn't implemented as adventurer skill yet, so having it use carpentry was the easier way. IIRC Toady mentioned that all the old workshops and assorted crafting skills were really old (non-OO) code and would have to be completely reimplemented one by one to be used in adventurer mode.
I can't find the specific quote, unfortunately.
As Putnam said, there's no sane reaction not to give haft-carving the woodcraft skill instead of the carpentry skill, especially as it doesn't use the building.
EDIT: Another question.
Why are splints craftable? You can't use them in adventure mode yet.
Ha ha, yeah, it takes you out to travel mode and then tries to reload the world map -- which is the secret 1x1 map of the arena's world.
Why is the dwarven calendar the way it is? 336 days, 12 months, 7-day weeks, four weeks in a month. Why not something smoother? Like maybe 360 days, 12 months, 6-day weeks, five weeks in a month?Seven-day weeks are more familiar to players who grew up on Earth. And since reskinning 30/31 day months would seem cheap, the best solution was lunar months that happen to be four weeks long.
They aren't lunar months.I was going off the werebeast example interaction, which is active from "day 27" until "day 0" of the moon phase implying a cycle at least 28 days long (and probably exactly 28 days long). But the wiki has 13 full-moon dates throughout the year, the first being the 25th day of the year.
DF has 13 lunar cycles per year.
Which makes his complete 180 on that, making 64-bit a "soon" thing, highly confusing.Myth gen is the next cycle after this one. We're not finished with this cycle yet (despite the version number increasing). The plan, which hasn't changed or reversed, is and always has been:
Even more confusing, we were all hyped for this alleged myth system. I thought it was also soon, but the 43.01 post made literally no mention of it whatsoever. Not even saying something like "still working on it" or "other priorities have crept up" or anything to explain. :V
The plan was always 64-bit before artifacts AFAIK.Toady is going to need 64 bits to top Planepacked :)
It was announced on 24th October 2015, and he alluded to a 64 bit release to solve certain problems before that at a panel discussion in August (posted on Sep 16th).The plan was always 64-bit before artifacts AFAIK.Toady is going to need 64 bits to top Planepacked :)
And your comment reminded me that we have always been at war with Eastasia.
I mean before, there was mention of the idea that Toady was hesitant to start on making it 64-bit due to the belief that it'd be complex to implement.There was mention...
Toady, do you intend for plants with the same name as RL plants to share as many properties with the RL plants as possible?To clarify the question: Is DF bayberry supposed to be a specific species, or a blending of different IRL species? The linked thread points out that they grow fruit, but are in climates that non-edible species are found in.
If that's vague/confusing, here's a more concrete question: Is the bayberry tree supposed to act like real-life bayberry trees do, as much as possible?
(see here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=157981.0))
Edit: Not sure why I thought I was supposed to bold my questions. Makes it hard as circus to read.
Hah, I can't see how anyone could think Toady hates mods, considering that he made a whole sub-board for them. :D
He's even revealed what some of the stuff inside DF's innards means, when asked.Yup, even pointed me to the right flag for safe landings to make launch.lua usable without slamming into the ground face first every time!
When mythgen comes along how easy will it be to add in a modded race? Would it just be a matter of adding the raws like now then assigning a 'fantasy' rating to it to let mythgen know when to introduce it?It should be sufficient to have the raws mostly as they are now (plus any control tokens that may exist, like the fantasy rating).
Quote from: ZM5will modders need to add their own creatures and such to the file itself, or will sentient, civilized races be automatically pulled from the raws into the myths in-game without having to create any additional files?
The creature files in the presentation were just a quick way to get the presentation going. I expect DF will use the existing raws for that portion. I'm not yet sure about the astronomical objects. The sun, moon and stars exist in the game already, with in-game effects (with adv mode lighting, werecreatures, etc.), and it'll be some work to support additions and subtractions -- which parts of the myth are respected will have to come in in sections to avoid a too-long release.
Adventurer site building has the option to define taverns, libraries and temples as well as the mead halls you mentioned at the time of release. However, these don't seem to do anything right now. Unlike the meadhalls, they don't show up in Legends mode, so presumably are not defined as taverns, libraries or temples in the world and won't ever attract visitors. Is this just an unfinished feature, or is it supposed to work right now?
Sorry, but are you sure you're talking about adventure mode site built zones? I don't understand what 'fortress wealth' has to do with anything. What fortress? where?Adventurer site building has the option to define taverns, libraries and temples as well as the mead halls you mentioned at the time of release. However, these don't seem to do anything right now. Unlike the meadhalls, they don't show up in Legends mode, so presumably are not defined as taverns, libraries or temples in the world and won't ever attract visitors. Is this just an unfinished feature, or is it supposed to work right now?
They do work but there is a cap firstmost to the max amount of visitors you may have at any one time, and secondly your biggest imports of scholars (since temples dont really offer unique visitor types and bards come and go from the tavern) is going to be from your own civilization, because the animalmen [LOCAL POP PRODUCES HEROES] tag churns out mercenaries out in the wilds to wander pretty much anywhere with enough fort value to attract a steady flow of interested visitors. As to say if all the civilization entities disappeared, leaving nothing but wild animal-men, you'd still be able to recruit mercenaries out of ex nihlio if the fortress was wealthy enough.
If you settle close enough to home within 'walking distance' of the last fort or dwarven city on the world map you should over time and scaling with the progress in writing made in the library (as to say visiting scholars are there to prep up your library and study) attract people post the writing of your first book/quire/scroll and general fortress wealth will attract visitors as intended. Temples attract regardless and im many cases people turn off the outsider usage for this reason.
But my question was, is this a feature or not? And if it is why don't they show up in Legends mode? The mead halls do.
Well, anyway, I'll follow the advice and write some books for the library and see what happens. I'm surprised so much Science has been done since 43.02 was released.
Edit - Wait, what?! 'Turn off outsider usage'?? You are talking about fortress mode aren't you? There's no such option in Adventurer.
Visitors are tied to fortress wealth. Your site does not have fortress wealth. You will not get visitors.
At least, I'm pretty sure that's what the connections was supposed to be.
Visitors are tied to fortress wealth. Your site does not have fortress wealth. You will not get visitors.
At least, I'm pretty sure that's what the connections was supposed to be.
Adventurer site building has the option to define taverns, libraries and temples as well as the mead halls you mentioned at the time of release. However, these don't seem to do anything right now. Unlike the meadhalls, they don't show up in Legends mode, so presumably are not defined as taverns, libraries or temples in the world and won't ever attract visitors. Is this just an unfinished feature, or is it supposed to work right now?
Will ghosts require a certain minimum fantasy level in the myth generator before they appear?And indeed, will the existence of ghosts altogether depend on the kind of afterlife and soul information output by mythgen?
How difficult would it be to allow a caste to override the random selection of what caste to birth with a specific caste of the modder choice or even have a specific sub list of castes to produce? This seems like a feature that would give a lot of power to modders and it is somthing I have been waiting to be introduced for several years now :PIsn't that what pop_ratio does? When I did my steel angel experiment they were all female and often had trouble with world-gen pop numbers, later I added a 1:5000 ratio male adventurer-tuned caste and while they were around enough to keep them breeding and whatnot, checking legends I rarely saw them, and never encountered one in game. I did a similar thing with my dwarf male/female/dorf adventurer caste thing, where the dorfs had 0 ratio so they only showed up once in a blue moon during world-gen weirdness, unless chosen by a player to use that caste.
Will there be momentum-based weapons (I.E Lances) to give mounted troops an edge when the big Military Arc begins?I'm pretty sure when combat and movement speed were split all weapons got bonuses to damage the faster you were moving. It's just not a very well documented mechanic. I remember when he added the ability to have creatures ride other creaturs in the object testing arena he talked about controlling a horse and trying to get their rider the best attack velocity bonuses.
I'd love for mounted units to play a larger part than just sometimes having the mount be a dangerous creature. The Military side of things has me most excited, in fact it's probably one of my joint top 'I'll give my soul to Armok if this was implemented tomorrow' feature. The other being Multithreading ;)
I'm pretty sure when combat and movement speed were split all weapons got bonuses to damage the faster you were moving. It's just not a very well documented mechanic. I remember when he added the ability to have creatures ride other creaturs in the object testing arena he talked about controlling a horse and trying to get their rider the best attack velocity bonuses.
Still, I'd like a 'lance' weapon that's practically usless at slow speeds, but super deadly if you're moving fast. Take the current bonuses and ramp them up to 11.This would probably flow naturally from a low contact area and ridiculously high penetration rating on the weapon. Need a lot of velocity to actually push the weapon's mass that deep into a target.
I'd love for mounted units to play a larger part than just sometimes having the mount be a dangerous creature. The Military side of things has me most excited...
...as currently Dwarves cannot ride mounts...
...I remember when he added the ability to have creatures ride other creaturs in the object testing arena he talked about controlling a horse and trying to get their rider the best attack velocity bonuses.
I'm pretty sure when combat and movement speed were split all weapons got bonuses to damage the faster you were moving. It's just not a very well documented mechanic. I remember when he added the ability to have creatures ride other creaturs in the object testing arena he talked about controlling a horse and trying to get their rider the best attack velocity bonuses.
thats another thing about the move/combat speed split stuff, it counts your current momentum in the attack, as long as your momentum - your velocity vector or whatever, is pointing toward the guy and the guy is either not moving or not moving away faster from you so that there is actual motion toward the other person. And if a person is running at you, you actually get the same bonus. So as long as there's relative motion, that's at least ninety degrees. So it could be perpendicular motion, or motion toward the person, then you get a bonus to your swing speed that's in line with how fast you're moving, so, and it also takes into account the speed of anything you're riding.
Will the Myth Generator have an 'as it is now' button? I.E some magical elements, but no procedurally generated races.DF is full of procedurally generated races right now (titans, FB, spoilery things).
A lot of the Dwarf Fortress charm comes from shared ideas and concepts we all have about the races: Dwarfs love mining and booze, Elves are filthy tree huggers, Humans are money obsessed xenophobes. etc. As much fun as a playable race of Bioluminescent Slugmen who hate animals might be, I'd hate to have to give up my Short sturdy creatures fond of Drink and Industry.
DF is full of procedurally generated races right now (titans, FB, spoilery things).
Regarding the main races, 'right now' human values are randomized, no more 'money obsessed xenophobes.
In the demo, random races only started appearing at maximum fantasy setting.
DF is full of procedurally generated races right now (titans, FB, spoilery things).
Regarding the main races, 'right now' human values are randomized, no more 'money obsessed xenophobes.
In the demo, random races only started appearing at maximum fantasy setting.
That does nothing to answer the actual question they had. ಠ_ಠ
Why are demonic fortresses gone, and will they ever reappear? All I could find was a previous FOTF reply where you couldn't remember why you commented them out. Did you recall why?
Its a pity that animal men up sticks to elven civilisations so readily now, rather than stay in the crude settlements they live in naturally and occasionally harass your fortress livestock by killing it (& anything else they can handle) before dragging it off the map to cash it in, or at-least that's how i remember it. Then again i can't recall encountering a animalmen settlement (a collection of huts with a announcement) from fortress mode recently in the last couple of versions even in a abandoned state, so unless its been turned off or im just very poor at finding them they might as well not exist.
Its impossible to detect them before they emigrate via worldgen (because they are a hidden embark feature that doesn't appear on the map), though you can get a feel for how many animalmen are joining the elves on account of the 'Regions' part of the legends screen informing you of their point of origin before they join the elven civilisation. (maybe ill use that to try and track down some evidence of them being there soon)
In some strange way i never really understood how that worked, if i suddenly race-swapped today or put up the raws relatively close to elves (it might be a hardcoded thing with how animalmen work or purely worldgen) would i just get legions of animalmen turning up at my door demanding residency or equipped in their own or elfish crude goods rushing in? (sounds like science potential)
Running any kind of elven tavern is pretty much 200% impractical without extensive modding so i dont think id even get the opportunity to find out without dedicating time. Prior to the tavern update i only ever settled once (maybe twice) on a animalmen site above ground, and it was certainly tense, because they saw you, and you saw them constantly edging closer then backing off like annoying neighbours behind your back trying to do the worst stuff without being caught early on.
The only animalmen i usually see nowadays are tavern visitors and completely naked ??? hamster and rat men vermin running in from time to time as a 'animal spawn'. I miss it honestly.
With something like 70% of all animalmen populations in that biome sourcing from that tribal site, represented as walking around in the world rather than like their gormless feral cousins. Unless we went a skulking self contained/hybrid entity route that grows bolder and larger from successful animal hunts/raiding parties or whatever is culturally appropriate, like hamster-men guzzler roast thieves, tigermen hunters and wombat man passive plant gatherers entering your fortress borders to collect supplies. Could flavour up worldgen a bit with goofy and more serious events such as a sudden explosion in beastmen toppling, conquering & assimilating both ways a worldgen civ into a rolling tide of sieges depending on cultural values.
To some extent under this model, even with no civilization the game could still effectively work in legends, with beastmen tribes passively growing their encampments and occasionally marching out to kill others (The tigerman high chieftain declares war on the polar bear man tribal council leaders over contested hunting rights for the bloody plateau shrubland & forest region)
Letting the occasional friendly member of that entity within walking distance arriving over settle in your fortress and therefore pledging loyalty to the dwarves eliminating localised loyalty conflicts would sound like a good resolution too. But this is all spur of the moment speculation that'd probably be better purposed into a thread.
I just ate some gorlak brains, but I still can't carve goblin bones. I think it's been half fixed.
Why not just copy the raw-file from the wiki?I just ate some gorlak brains, but I still can't carve goblin bones. I think it's been half fixed.
Strange. Still, I miss my minotaur leather loincloths. o3o
Plus again, giant desert scorpions. Yes, adding normal and animal-people versions would be more work, as would reworking the giant desert scorpion to be a creature variant of normal ones. But in the meantime, why the hell can't they just be added back in and reworked LATER? :V
Why not just copy the raw-file from the wiki?
I've been playing around with its static code analysis tool, which located some interesting typos which have probably screwed up the medical bedrest and ghost behavior among other things.
My reaction was that a few interesting typos in the sim we live in could explain a lot of quantum mechanics.QuoteI've been playing around with its static code analysis tool, which located some interesting typos which have probably screwed up the medical bedrest and ghost behavior among other things.
I feel sorry for the code analyzer program. Either it saw the code and immediately reported that it was made by a high class Italian pasta chef. Or it had to sit in awe for a few moments as it had something akin to a programming religious experience.
Then it finally reports back something like "Dude, you know they stay in bed forever because you forgot to camel case on this line?"
Kind of reminds me of back when people were asking why Toady wouldn't just quick fix the issue of cats complaining that they had no hands. He can leave trivial issues lingering for a long time if he has a non-trivial solution in mind that will fix it later (and maybe especially so if it can be circumvented by simple modding).
I have been doing the same with every release since forever. Even made a thread about it (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=123064.msg4040600#msg4040600) and the other assorted changes I made. Removing the tags from goblins never had ill effects. Only once I saw them dissappear from the world and I don't think it was related to that but rather the small number of civilisations on that game.
The question itself, the answer I think is for lore reasons more than practical purposes. Could goblins be considered lesser demons at some extent? I think they do.
From memory, the brothers don't like to think of goblins as having to bother with things like farming (or any of the broader economics that come from having to eat).
From memory, the brothers don't like to think of goblins as having to bother with things like farming (or any of the broader economics that come from having to eat).
How difficult would it be to allow a caste to override the random selection of what caste to birth with a specific caste of the modder choice or even have a specific sub list of castes to produce? This seems like a feature that would give a lot of power to modders and it is somthing I have been waiting to be introduced for several years now :PIsn't that what pop_ratio does? When I did my steel angel experiment they were all female and often had trouble with world-gen pop numbers, later I added a 1:5000 ratio male adventurer-tuned caste and while they were around enough to keep them breeding and whatnot, checking legends I rarely saw them, and never encountered one in game. I did a similar thing with my dwarf male/female/dorf adventurer caste thing, where the dorfs had 0 ratio so they only showed up once in a blue moon during world-gen weirdness, unless chosen by a player to use that caste.
It'd be nice to have that kind of feature available to modders, but not exactly a high priority when we have this whole wonderful myth generator thing to play with.
From memory, the brothers don't like to think of goblins as having to bother with things like farming (or any of the broader economics that come from having to eat).They're defined as bone-eating carnivores.
Also, it's a hint where we're going with this, which is to get rid of VPL all together, eventually.
I would swear that at some point in the past, Toady mentioned overhauling the skill system to make it more automatic: eg, if a fortress really needed a new mason and jobs were piling up, it would automatically turn masonry on for an appropriate dwarf. It's frustrating that I can't find the quote. At the moment, it seems like many players either rely on an external utility (Therapist) or randomly assign jobs to dwarves, and neither of those two seem ideal.Oh please no that sounds like it would ruin the entire game for me.
Are there plans to automate turning on skills for dwarves? Alternatively, are there plans to make it easier to both manage large fortresses and to make it clear what dwarves would be best suited for a given skill?
Oh please no that sounds like it would ruin the entire game for me.
It sounds like something could be done from the manager itself to be even more realistic. Job asignations in times of need could work like that
If automated labor-enabling was an option disabled by default, I can see it being nifty. I tend to dump desired labors on random dwarves that aren't doing anything at the moment. o3o
From memory, the brothers don't like to think of goblins as having to bother with things like farming (or any of the broader economics that come from having to eat).They're defined as bone-eating carnivores.
That is nuts. It makes no bloody sense to have goblins unable to eat. Sure, having goblin herders sounds not-scary, but code-wise I've seen no actual problems with goblins ever starving as-is with the NOEAT and NODRINK tokens removed.And besides the fact that they actually do farm trolls for fur, they could also hunt and gather.
Making them able to eat has no visible effect as far as I can tell, and if anything having them able to eat, while having no apparent source of mundane livestock, being carnivorous, AND their entity being okay with cannibalism, seems infinitely more morbid than "herpderp we are unable to starve despite the fact that you'd never see us starve in-game anyway."
It really doesn't explain no thirst, either. Only dwarves are alcohol dependent, water is fine for everyone else.
Now that adventurers can put items on tables and there's a bit of picking-up going on in adventure mode with muggers and tavern keepers picking up dropped items, is there any plan for shopkeepers to start storing their stock on tables or in containers instead of all over the shop floor?
Actually here's an open question for anyone that knows, what happens to artifacts now if an adventurer dies with one away from a site? Just drowns or something. Is it lost?
Could the humans have better architecture? Right now they're living in wooden boxes. Could we have architecture like... Gilneas? Maybe?Sites are still rather preliminary, at present. Taverns aren't even generated in Dark Fortresses that purportedly have them, and Fortresses are absurdly mazy. I believe the plan is for human architecture to eventually vary from civ to civ, but that's probably a ways off.
It's a gameplay workaround (again, sieges) that did not originally have a logical lore reason behind it, and giving it a lore reason just sounds idiotic.
Back when I started playing, goblins did not have NO_EAT or NO_DRINK (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/40d:Goblin). They were carnivores who were just assumed to raise lots of livestock and eat offscreen (much like the Humans and Elves.) The reason they got those tags was when the Caravan Arc started, one of the first changes was that civs started needing to have sources of food or they'd starve- at that point it was a conscious decision to make the goblin race more unique and "alien" rather than just being "they're like elvesbut evil."
I meant only dwarves have [ALCOHOL_DEPENDENT], which slows them down if they don't drink it.It really doesn't explain no thirst, either. Only dwarves are alcohol dependent, water is fine for everyone else.I contest this, it has been shown that historical violence attaches itself (its why vampires & goblins when observed via modding/otherwise complain of lack of alcohol) as a side effect to trauma and later psychological effects.
@Bumber: A number of reports on the forums indicate animals are distracted due to a lack of praying. That might not be the only reason, of course.
Do dwarves that damage furniture in temples dedicated to megabeasts get cursed by the megabeast?
I've finally gotten a fortress with a dwarf that worships a megabeast, and it's actually multiple rocs. So I'd like to make a temple to them, and it made me wonder if megabeasts can curse people now.
Oh, it does. This was mentioned in the dev-log, and there's been at least one instance of a vampire troll, thanks to it.Do dwarves that damage furniture in temples dedicated to megabeasts get cursed by the megabeast?
I've finally gotten a fortress with a dwarf that worships a megabeast, and it's actually multiple rocs. So I'd like to make a temple to them, and it made me wonder if megabeasts can curse people now.
That hinges on whether the game can associate statues placed in player-fort temples with curses in the first place.
Pretty sure it would require the megabeast to know at least one MAJOR_CURSE interaction, if it works at all.Nah, gods can curse people no matter what they're associated with.
...With a MAJOR_CURSE interaction. I didn't mention anything about or related to spheres.
Would that same sort of "personal" interaction be expanded to stuff like priests and worshippers of a given deity being able to interact with/gain some sort of effect/curse via literally talking to/praying to their relevant god or gods?
Oh, actually, do you have any plans to expand the ask for directions options to include things like a temple, library, or tavern?
Quote from: fearlesslittletoasterToady, would having unpredictable and dangerous magic be discovered in fortress mode really be a bad thing? Setting up a library, and presumably letting people into it who ponder magical things, would be a player choice. If the fact that things could go horribly horribly wrong was known then it would just be another thing that could be really... !!FUN!!
I realize this could also be rather frustrating in some ways, but from my personal perspective I find the idea of engineering around the problem really entertaining. I would be tickled pink if I got to design a series of "containment protocols"Quote from: NW_KohakuThat said, it's more than slightly distressing that Toady says he's deliberately adding something that he fully expects players will find "unsatisfying" in Fortress Mode because it's nothing more than a "your fort gets destroyed because LOL RANDUM MAGIC!" "feature"
...
That presumes there would be ways to engineer around the problem, and not, as most representations (including the one TOADY JUST GAVE) of the magic system would have it, simply having a text box pop up informing you that your fortress crumbled for no good reason because you were stupid enough to have a library.
Toady, how will players be expected to control dwarves with procedural magic, or procedurally created whatevers with magical powers that have dangerous effects?
Will their uses always be automated through usage hints, even if, say, "fading", to use the GDC example can mean that creatures will eventually kill themselves if players have no means of throttling their use outside extreme or indirect methods like forcing dwarves apart from enemies or whatever situation triggers use of magic? Or will there be ways to script conditions under which your charges can use magic or are told to hold their fire?
Likewise, is there going to be automated "needs"-style attempt to discharge negative consequences of magic like "fading" in the same way that a dwarf automatically goes to feed themselves when huger gets too high? Is this going to be some zone like a hospital or tavern, or would it be something you handle through goods production, or some sort of social behavior you need to script through some new interface?
Likewise likewise, magic in the GDC example uses "fuel" items to power magic - is this something you expect to be some sort of extension of the military uniforms to have fortress members equip "magic ammo", even if it means all civilians have to wear military uniforms? (Something of an exploit, but one players use on anyone not a miner or woodcutter, regardless...) Is this, alternately, something that you see occupying a different interface, like a unified magic-instruction interface?
Finally, if we're talking about libraries being places of magic research that blow up your fortress, will that mean there are methods of controlling what research actually takes place? To use the HFS example, one can always not dig, and one can have a good sense of how far you are digging to get a sense of what risks you are taking. Procedural tech trees, meanwhile, cannot so easily physically convey the concept of that danger, and is there even a way to stop such fortress-destroying research without outright shutting the library down or resorting to de facto demanding savescumming from players to prevent arbitrary fortress death?
Well when you simplify it that much, it doesn't sound very deep, does it? I think he meant more about divinity being a state of mind rather than some some "I believe it so it's true" 40k ork thing. The sort of stuff that comes up in the (currently growing in popularity) more mystic fantasy which draws heavily on Indian myth for inspiration. Like the works of Kirkbride, which I believe he was referring to, or something like Kill Six Billion Demons. From stuff you've talked about, I know most of your fantasy reading tends to be grounded in a more western paradigm, but have you kept up with other fantasy movements like this? If not, it might interest you to at least read what there is of the K6BD comic, and/or perhaps the roleplaying game. Of course there's a lot more writings to go with that, which is common to the subgenre such as it is, but that's more peripheral.
So, with some of the myths stating that there's like, a tower or a road to the heavens, does this mean that we will eventually be able to travel to them as physical places and kill the gods? Because some of the gods tend to be jerks, and they need to be taken down a notch.
If we can kill gods, what will that do to the world? Will creatures cursed by the gods that are killed suddenly be cured by their deaths?
The myth generator demo showed you forcing the myths to include a race and a celestial object, and the myth generator seems to need to create the gift of death to justify nonimmortal races.
Are there any plans to be able to force it to include a particular magic as well? For instance, you write up a RAW for shooting fireballs and include it in the list of things. Game reads the tags on it, and the myth generator includes something like with 'humans are spawned from the sun, so they can shoot fireballs', or 'celestial sparks hover above the ground, letting you carve fireball-shooting runestones'
Toady, you mentioned in the last FOTF reply that you are planning an "artifact" release before the first myth release - which will include among other things more thieving. Do you intend to use that opportunity to give kobold sites the same overhaul that the other civ sites have gotten?
Will conquered sites ever be transformed into other site types? Like, say, the humans conquer the goblins. They pull down the dark fortress, fill the underworld gate with rubble, build a keep, incorporate some of the towers into a wall, and fill the trenches with dirt. The dark fortress is now a town, with maybe a few signs of its former status. Sort of like how goblins build towers and trenches in sites they conquer right now.
Do Toady and ThreeToe get any inspiration from Tv-series / Movies and popular books that are currently in progress? Game of thrones for an example? If that's the case do you have any examples of features that have been implemented or might be planned?
Toady have you ever read discworld?
Quote from: UntrustedlifeSo you just added those various giant creatures, however according to the wiki there are no giant ants yet, do you plan to eventually add giant ants and associated colonies? I have a feeling they would be very fun to delve into in adventurer mode and even in fort mode.Quote from: StupidElvesCould giant insects build colonies? Like, giant beehives and ant colonies that you can find in Adventure Mode and Fortress Mode.
Quote from: FantasticDorfWith potential competition from the deep-dwarves, will the "animalmen-civilisation" see any kind of improvement upon their society structure? Rather than being primitive fodder for fortress mode smashing & adventure mode mercenaries, which all in all is a waste of their civilization generation entity file if they are going to be reduced to a turkey hunt.Quote from: FantasticDorfIf the 'layer linked' subterreanean races recieve any meaningful improvements or changes in the future, would this in turn be reflected upon 'native' pre-civilisation and pre-elven civ emigration races?
Given that if the aboveground animalmen tribes are not layer linked and therefore 'invisible', would possibly in future versions their settlements more visible from the embark screen and have a wider reach as a set number of variable small entities on the map if they were implemented more fully?
Why does carving a haft from a branch use carpentry instead of woodcrafting? And is there a reason you can take a masterfully-knapped sharp rock and never get quality out of a stone axe, because the reaction uses no skill?
And why are stone axes explictly a separate tool instead of a weapon? Hell, it'd make perfect sense if you were adding generic woodcutting axes for flavor, but you didn't add the token for making them out of metal, and didn't add it to any entities.
Why are splints craftable? You can't use them in adventure mode yet.
I'm really glad you are finally taking stabs at making the 64 bits version. What forced you to take this step? There was something specific or simply to allow us have bigger games? What would be the main (practical)differences between the 32 and 64 versions for us players?
Quote from: Dozebom LolumlazisToady, do you intend for plants with the same name as RL plants to share as many properties with the RL plants as possible?
If that's vague/confusing, here's a more concrete question: Is the bayberry tree supposed to act like real-life bayberry trees do, as much as possible?Quote from: BumberIs DF bayberry supposed to be a specific species, or a blending of different IRL species? The linked thread points out that they grow fruit, but are in climates that non-edible species are found in.
In the preview for the myth generator you showed that all creation originated from a single primordial entity (Eternal mist, etc), will there be cases where multiple entities (eg Muspell + Niflheim) behave as the universe's progenitor?
Will there be deities with unknown / foreign origins to the main dynasty (eg Vanir to the Aesir)?
Will adventurers be able to find uses for instruments that are similar to those they're familiar with? Like say, using a drum of one sort in place of a drum they don't have. Or maybe composing new songs that use instruments in their inventory, or selecting what they want to compose a song for, etc?
Because finding exactly what I need for the only forms of music I know can be annoying. Thing is, I have no idea what would be the easiest way to handle use of inexact instruments, code-wise. Though just allowing the use of different instruments of the same skill, for a skill penalty less severe than instrumentless improv, would be a massive improvement.
You mentioned that deities forces and such take turns when generating the creation myths, are there any plans for a player to participate in the creation of myths as a deity/force/comet or whatever.
Quote from: Shonai_DwellerAdventurer site building has the option to define taverns, libraries and temples as well as the mead halls you mentioned at the time of release. However, these don't seem to do anything right now. Unlike the meadhalls, they don't show up in Legends mode, so presumably are not defined as taverns, libraries or temples in the world and won't ever attract visitors. Is this just an unfinished feature, or is it supposed to work right now?Quote from: FantasticDorfWill certain procedurally generated and adventure mode retired embark locations such as taverns and temples or even just structures in the world ever retain private ownership by who owns the site even if it overlays your embark? (with ownership being tranferred upon admittance of themselves or their relatives to your fortress?) With diplomatic reprecussions for attacking such as taking a diplomacy hit and angering the occupants/relative nation.
And if this was so, could our own fortress dwellers find relevance in assigned dwarves (say its a 'trading license' of sorts) taking over private shopfront property independently to build skills, conduct commerce and interact with the wider world. In the sense that wagons sell in bulk to fortresses but traders and tourists probably want to buy our roasts with coins to a vendor. Very Recettear i guess
How difficult would it be to allow a caste to override the random selection of what caste to birth with a specific caste of the modder choice or even have a specific sub list of castes to produce?
Quote from: DGWill ghosts require a certain minimum fantasy level in the myth generator before they appear?Quote from: Shonai_DwellerAnd indeed, will the existence of ghosts altogether depend on the kind of afterlife and soul information output by mythgen?
Love the fixed fame/bandit/citizens relationships and hearthperson quests, btw, and I do a lot of variations of them in different worlds. In large towns and especially after having become known to random people I meet as a legendary hero I started to observe something. From time to time when I returned to report on and get a new quest I would go and take the side/back exits from the keep (only found them because of civilians liking to use them) and hit the nearest road to start traveling.
Shortly after entering the travel map you get a check for nearby armies and will often see a few pop up and start wandering the streets as usual, but in the case where you're a Big Damn Hero you often find one that will follow you slavishly, even to nearby hamlets and lairs. Upon dropping out of travel mode and investigating I've learned these will generally be a squad of 4~6 recruits and occasionally a couple of skilled soldiers like a marksdorf or hammerelf or whatnot. They always tend to be amazed to meet me, say they are on a mission, do not trigger ambushes when crossing their * on the map, and usually turn back after I get a couple of world map tiles from the home town.
Was this intended behavior, with them being support/back-up or fans, or just an emergent quirk?
Q1: After spheres are expanded on and there are more Secrets, will the Secret of Life and Death be adjusted/altered at all? Or is it currently as it was originally intended?
Q2: Will there be other Spheres, Secrets or deity boons which might grant Immortality?
Quote from: GrusWhy are demonic fortresses gone, and will they ever reappear? All I could find was a previous FOTF reply where you couldn't remember why you commented them out. Did you recall why?Quote from: WittyIn a similar vein, do you recall why deity-impersonating demons were removed as well?
Will the myth generator have separate settings for 1. frequency of supernatural vs natural beings, 2. overall fantasy-ness of all creatures together and 3. maximum and minimum supernaturalness? Or will there only be an overall "fantasy"-rating for a given world and you'd have to add what else you want with raws?
So what I'm asking is, if I will be able to make one world with a few necromancers, maybe a handful of vampires, 10 forgotten beasts/titans, and no more than a dozen animal people/men, with the usual amount of regular animals and standard races; another world with the same kind of creatures, but more necromancers, vampires, werebeasts, titans, etc, compared to regular animals and races.
And a third one where slightly supernatural creatures (say, elves and dwarves) exist, and slightly more supernatural creatures (maybe vampires and unicorns, creatures with superhuman strength), but neither total fantasy stuff (flying guts, primordial serpent gods), nor completely mundane creatures (dog, cat, human, peach faced lovebird).
Toady, the myth generator is an exciting new feature, and I understand that it is likely to be largely unmoddable at first. But will modders have the ability to use the fantasy-ness ratings at all? For example, a tag that makes a creature/interaction/whatever available only if the fantasy rating is in the range X% to Y%?
Do you have any plans regarding when to fix giant desert scorpions and cannibalism? You've said before that giant desert scorpions will be reimplemented, but it's been a while.
What toolchain are you using now?
Quote from: PatrikLundellIf you're only going to do one more bug fix release before rushing on, please aim it to clear out the worst bugs introduced in 0.42.X+. While I've found it encouraging to see a number of bugs fixed in the latest releases (and grabbing a bunch of "random" bugs now and then to squash is a good thing), it's a bit worrying that there doesn't seem to have been any directed effort to tidy up the issues created/revealed with zones/visitors. To make this into a question: what's your aim for bug fixing before moving on?Quote from: WittyAnd piggy backing off PatrikLundell, do you intend to continue on with this phase of extended bug fixes after the 64-bit rewrite?
Are any crime and punishment arc elements planned for the artifact arc? Will stealing artifacts from an entity just turn the entire civilization you took it from against you like regular theft, or will people only request artifacts possessed by mega beasts or enemy civs until different entity sub-groups are more filled in? Will there be rumors about artifacts being moved around, who has stolen/liberated them, whether they've been spotted with someone in particular.
You've talked about tea making before, there's the partially implemented pearl-crafting in the game already, and you've suggested wax might have a resurgence once you get to the lighting arc. Are there any more industries you're planning to implement into the game that aren't explicitly laid out on the development log? Short or long term, I'm just interested in what might eventually be coming even if it's a long ways away.
In general we as a player have an overview of all of the map that we have previously revealed in fortressed mode. So, we see when creatures arrive in the distant caverns or at the corner of the map, even if there is not a dwarf there to see it. I was wondering whether this was a design decision on your part (that the player has more of a god-like overview of the map), or whether in the future you were considering making a traditional fog-of-war type situation where revealed parts of the map would be known, but the state of the map in those places, and any creatures in those places would only be updated if a dwarf was there to see that area directly.
Given the upcoming eventual magic arc, do goblins themselves (as either underlings, selfmade masters through overtaking demonic masters or individuals) have access to any particular 'school', alternatively 'branch' of exclusive magic? or do they remain a largely mundane or magically generic race when the big supernatural being leading them suddenly ceases to exist in the mortal world?
Toady, now that we have proper taverns in human towns and dwarven fortresses, do you have plans to go back and have dwarven hillocks create proper taverns? Right now they still use fake taverns that just have drunks milling around. And will we ever see drunks in proper taverns ?
As of 43.xx for sure, and possibly back in 42.xx it seems you can no longer interact with a minecart near lava and fill it up, even if it is magma safe, even if you are playing a creature which can just swim around in a volcano, we can't fill a container from lava.
If you acquire some magma, though, you can dump it out into a pool and happily fill anything from it. I figure that the magma being under the spilled liquids system is why that works, but there are times when even in a totally unmodded game your adventurer might come across a magma safe minecart and want to use it to say, cast a dam below the surface of a river running through your camp site.
Was leaving just the "heat near lava" option deliberate?
Do dwarves that damage furniture in temples dedicated to megabeasts get cursed by the megabeast?
Because it looked like a table leg and not a figurine. Not that the skills make any sense overall. I don't know the situation with skill vs quality.
We were thinking of experimenting with item components with the stone axe, but it didn't end up happening, and things were going to migrate over to the tool framework.
I don't have a specific time in mind.
Plus again, giant desert scorpions. Yes, adding normal and animal-people versions would be more work, as would reworking the giant desert scorpion to be a creature variant of normal ones. But in the meantime, why the hell can't they just be added back in and reworked LATER? :V
QuoteI don't have a specific time in mind.
Again, because a partial fix is trivial, I'm requoting my remark earlier:Plus again, giant desert scorpions. Yes, adding normal and animal-people versions would be more work, as would reworking the giant desert scorpion to be a creature variant of normal ones. But in the meantime, why the hell can't they just be added back in and reworked LATER? :V
Interesting answers as always.I think it's best to just keep the haft as using the carpentry skill, until other reactions are introduced that use woodcrafting. I feel like it would just be a bit of an annoyance to have a skill exclusively for the creation of wooden hafts.QuoteBecause it looked like a table leg and not a figurine. Not that the skills make any sense overall. I don't know the situation with skill vs quality.
We were thinking of experimenting with item components with the stone axe, but it didn't end up happening, and things were going to migrate over to the tool framework.
Regarding the skill, I guess I can understand it. There is no real internal consistency yet that dictates that adventurer-made items with no workshop use a given skill. It only really seems logical to me because that's the logic I've used for skills in modding, just force of habit essentially.
Reactions that don't have a skill assigned to them can never produce products with quality. See issue: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=9769 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=9769) ArmokGoB made the suggestion that you use the same logic as dwarves making rock stone swords, and give it the stonecrafting skill.QuoteI don't have a specific time in mind.
Again, because a partial fix is trivial, I'm requoting my remark earlier:Plus again, giant desert scorpions. Yes, adding normal and animal-people versions would be more work, as would reworking the giant desert scorpion to be a creature variant of normal ones. But in the meantime, why the hell can't they just be added back in and reworked LATER? :V
I think it's best to just keep the haft as using the carpentry skill, until other reactions are introduced that use woodcrafting. I feel like it would just be a bit of an annoyance to have a skill exclusively for the creation of wooden hafts.
From India, I read the Ramayana and the Mahabharata (or much shorter novelized versions of them that still amounted to ~2500 pages) in preparation for the myth stuff. With the lists of named, graded, mostly-combat spells obtained from godlike beings, people ascending to godlike status, lots of physical demon-type creatures being fought by heroes in battles of various sizes, and more, those myths are more aligned with older pnp and computer RPGs than the traditional Greek/Christian/etc. stories are (I'm not sure where the inspirations go through those and 20th century novelists and then through DND to computer games and all that, and how much is a coincidence -- I assume this is a discussion had many times).
Quote from: UntrustedlifeToady have you ever read discworld?
I think I read one of the books many years ago. Something Egyptish.
Again, I've fixed that myself. But if it's trivial to fix, that makes it irritating that two or so minutes can't be set aside to fix it in the vanilla game proper. The very fact that it's so bloody quick and easy to fix means that while it takes me only a minute each version to fix it when I get an update, it also means that it would take Toady a minute to fix it for good.
You skipped over my question about goblin drinking/eating.
The arguments against the current situation never seem to be very solid; the best I've heard are roughly as follows:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I don't think they are set in stone in Tarn and Zach's minds yet. You can take that as an invitation to lobby for your ideal version of them but that should probably be done in Suggestions.
:D This reads to me like "I know you've said that you made goblins [NO_EAT] for lore reasons, but that's so dumb you must have other reasons, maybe subconscious ones. What are these other real reasons? Also, when do you think you'll realize how dumb [NO_EAT] goblins are and change it back to how they should be?" Good to see the return of the walking-hat-ball-thing avatar, btw.
For every one thing you don't like in DF, there'll be ten people who do like it, twenty people wanting you to just mod it for yourself, and the rest wondering why you think it's an issue.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
:D This reads to me like "I know you've said that you made goblins [NO_EAT] for lore reasons, but that's so dumb you must have other reasons, maybe subconscious ones. What are these other real reasons? Also, when do you think you'll realize how dumb [NO_EAT] goblins are and change it back to how they should be?" Good to see the return of the walking-hat-ball-thing avatar, btw.I don't think they are set in stone in Tarn and Zach's minds yet. You can take that as an invitation to lobby for your ideal version of them but that should probably be done in Suggestions.
but why the mockery?
Theoretically infinite food from beak dog eggs as well as a good supply of gall stones (and hefty food returns off the beak dogs themselves) to sustain a fortress in and out of mode.
So the next big update is the "artifact update" right? I got some questions about what kinds of artifacts will appear.Questions in lime green.
1. Will there be artifacts with "souls", like a talking sword or maybe a soul jar that an important person could store their own soul in. I think you've addressed this topic before and said you wanted to implement it sooner or later, but will it appear in the "artifact update"?
2. Will your dwarves be able to create artifacts that are actual living(or non-living) units? Like a golem of some kind.
3. Will there be multi-part artifacts? Say something really powerful like a door to the demon/god realm would need both the door itself and the keystone needed to power it that is made separately.
4. I think you've said something about artifacts getting different effects depending of what caused their making (fey, inspiration by gods, possession etc.). What are the current plans regarding the differences?
You have to consider what it is the beak dogs are eating in such quantities to be able to lay all the eggs and provide all the meat that the goblins get from them. Food production and consumption in DF isn't realistic but should improve over time.
Current farming (especially underground) throws up more believability issues for me than goblins, too.
Thanks, fixed it.So the next big update is the "artifact update" right? I got some questions about what kinds of artifacts will appear.Questions in lime green.
1. Will there be artifacts with "souls", like a talking sword or maybe a soul jar that an important person could store their own soul in. I think you've addressed this topic before and said you wanted to implement it sooner or later, but will it appear in the "artifact update"?
2. Will your dwarves be able to create artifacts that are actual living(or non-living) units? Like a golem of some kind.
3. Will there be multi-part artifacts? Say something really powerful like a door to the demon/god realm would need both the door itself and the keystone needed to power it that is made separately.
4. I think you've said something about artifacts getting different effects depending of what caused their making (fey, inspiration by gods, possession etc.). What are the current plans regarding the differences?
This reads to me like "I know you've said that you made goblins [NO_EAT] for lore reasons, but that's so dumb you must have other reasons, maybe subconscious ones. What are these other real reasons? Also, when do you think you'll realize how dumb [NO_EAT] goblins are and change it back to how they should be?"The stated reason was that they didn't want "meat herding" goblins. I want to know if it's Word of Toad that vanilla DF goblins as a race must inherently not need to eat, or whether any alternative that ends in the same aesthetic is still on the table.
...
One of my offered solutions involved it being a supernatural power (Hey, Myths and Magic Arc!) that was bestowed via pact upon the civ or individual, not the race. They could even have demonic artifacts (e.g., that refill with demon blood) that nourish them. I'll put my ideas in Suggestions if and only if Toady says he's still willing to consider alternatives. Otherwise, there's no point.
Why are some large predators like the Dingo and Wolf not hunting or war trainable, while other large predators like the Leopard and Lion are hunting / war trainable? (Also applies to Giant versions.) Even more confusing: Why is the Black Bear not hunting / war trainable when both Grizzly and Polar Bears are?
I'd love to know the reasons why. Does it have to do with size? The Black Bear may be smaller than a Grizzly or Polar Bear, but it's still quite large compared to other trainable animals. The Wolf is a rather large, too. The domestic dog is trainable and it's rather small, by comparison. Canines are known to be quite intelligent, so they should be at least capable of training. And in terms of tameness and potential to turn on handlers, are Wolves really any worse than Lions and Leopards?
I always assumed it was based off whether Toady could find historical evidence regarding the training and use of a given species. And as I can confirm, having done similar such things for types of stone, research is a big pain in the ass when you're looking for something like "did anyone historically use this" instead of more concrete things like material data.
I find it extremely unlikely that anyone has historically used polar bears for war or hunting, given that they're the most dangerous-to-humans predator on the planet; while we know for a fact that people have used wolves.
I suspect the distinction between which animals are TRAINABLE or not is mostly an accident of creation order: a large fraction of the TRAINABLE animals (not counting variations, which just inherit) have been around since 40d.
With the introduction of alcohol inebriation, taverns, and temples, I feel as if the effects of the stress system have become quite rare. It's almost as if one needs to intentionally and actively stress out the dwarves to actually see the effects of it nowadays. It's not like we need to go back to the old days where a tantruming dwarf can send a fort into ruin, but is the current state of almost-permanent euphoria among your dwarves intended for now?
In worldgen, will there ever be fights of more than just one-on-one?
just what do PATTERN_FLIER and UNDER_SWM do?UNDERSWIM is a relic from the days when DF was only 2D, and does nothing. Don't know about the other.
just what do PATTERN_FLIER and UNDER_SWM do?UNDERSWIM is a relic from the days when DF was only 2D, and does nothing. Don't know about the other.
^ That was #1 on the wishlist. Too awesome :)Tarn's explanation of what went into fixing that and what has to be fixed to make sure nothing else goes wrong as a result of fixing it was highly entertaining. Item wear, broken necks, ripping helmets off unconscious opponents. Awesome stuff to look forward to.
I have a question about the myth thing.Questions in lime green, like this.
At GDC it was said that you can set the myth level, that limit the stuff that can happen on the world, humans as some example have an ultra low mythic level and so they can happen even with a ultra low myth level.
My question is, does setting your world mythic level to a high value, force the world generation to generate high mythic level creatures/stuff, or the world will generate itself logically as it always do and if it the generator "feels" a higher mythic level thing is needed it will put this thing without rejecting the world?
...and some combat AI to make people remove helmets from unconscious opponents. Then the release should be ready.Every time I look at the devlog lately I squee a little. Just a little. Enough to be awkward when reading on a phone at a funeral, but not enough to be heard across the room.
Well, that's to be expected in dwarf fortress. I imagine later bug fix notes will mention "stopped unintelligent creatures from figuring out how to undress and disarm opponents"
So wait...my tactic of distracting the GCS by having it gnaw uselessly on the Captain of the Guard's steel helmeted head until the rest of the squad turn up might not work any more?Personally, I'd be kind of against non-intelligent creatures pulling something like this off. If anything, though, you'd think a GCS or other creatures would just start biting random body parts after a few glancing blows to the head.
- The giant cave spider carefully removes the swordsdwarf'spantshelmet...
So wait...my tactic of distracting the GCS by having it gnaw uselessly on the Captain of the Guard's steel helmeted head until the rest of the squad turn up might not work any more?Personally, I'd be kind of against non-intelligent creatures pulling something like this off. If anything, though, you'd think a GCS or other creatures would just start biting random body parts after a few glancing blows to the head.
- The giant cave spider carefully removes the swordsdwarf'spantshelmet...
Because targetting other armoured body parts would result in an endless fight. The point is enemies can now come completely armoured. And while it would be amusing for goblins to rip off a dorfs pants half way through a fight, the helmet kind of makes more sense, don't you think?So wait...my tactic of distracting the GCS by having it gnaw uselessly on the Captain of the Guard's steel helmeted head until the rest of the squad turn up might not work any more?Personally, I'd be kind of against non-intelligent creatures pulling something like this off. If anything, though, you'd think a GCS or other creatures would just start biting random body parts after a few glancing blows to the head.
- The giant cave spider carefully removes the swordsdwarf'spantshelmet...
Actually, that brings up a good point.
What led to you adding the "NPCs can remove enemy helmets" idea instead of targetting other bodyparts? Especially since both would presumably be triggered by enough ineffectual head strikes, was there a specific reason you decided to implement that instead of something simpler like a "target some other part" mechanic?
What are the requirements for an opponent to remove helmets? Does the creature in question need to be intelligent, or can large predators remove helmets as well?
And what about OS X and Linux? GCC 4.5 is quite ancient. Do you own a Mac or how do you build for OS X? Also letting you know that unlike other platforms there's no need to support both 32/64bit versions for OS X, as there are no separate 32/64bit version of the OS and the only hardware not capable of running 64bit binaries is from about 2006.Every time this topic comes up, my trusty old VIC-20 cries :(
Because targetting other armoured body parts would result in an endless fight. The point is enemies can now come completely armoured. And while it would be amusing for goblins to rip off a dorfs pants half way through a fight, the helmet kind of makes more sense, don't you think?
Is it? Ha ha. Time for some throat armour.Because targetting other armoured body parts would result in an endless fight. The point is enemies can now come completely armoured. And while it would be amusing for goblins to rip off a dorfs pants half way through a fight, the helmet kind of makes more sense, don't you think?
Isn't the throat always exposed though? >_>
@Mr S: Coinstars went potentially deadly more than a year and a half ago when coins actually started hitting. I disabled mine rather quickly after that update, although the damages at that point were limited to a number of cases of broken bones.Equipping and training a militia is a complex socioeconomic undertaking in a highly detailed fantasy simulation. Of course you can't solve it by simply throwing money at the problem :)
Granted, one's opinion of what a realistic worlgenned dwarf fortress would be influenced by your normal build style in fortress mode. For example, mine would have a trade depot out in the open, near a basic archery tower, and near a rather nondescript ramp leading into the inevitable cage traps, drawbridges, and dog-based airlock, into a hideous grid composed of 5x5 rooms where workshops, storage, giant communal bedrooms etc are haphazardly laid out.When you run across a worldgen fort with an entry hall full of cagetraps, you'll rue the day you asked for more player-ish forts :)
In short, not a place I'd like to explore. o3o
When you run across a worldgen fort with an entry hall full of cagetraps, you'll rue the day you asked for more player-ish forts :)
I've seen some of the URR generated sites - they look much more real that DF ones - both larger and more plausible, and from what I remember the NPCs there have their own daily routines, unlike in DF, where they will work in a certain place, return home at certain time and go to sleep in their own beds.You know that's all the URR AI does right now, right? And actually doesn't right now until all the bugs are fixed. Different game, different priorites, completely off topic.
...unlike in DF, where they will work in a certain place, return home at certain time and go to sleep in their own beds.
06/12/2016...
...As part of the recent fix that brought armor back to invading soldiers and others, we need to deal with the effectiveness of armor, since there are too many fights that never end. To this end, we're going to do armor item damage...
As you flesh out adventure mode and make it even more alive (which seems to be a focus lately), do you think it will be possible for players to become lord, lady, king, emperor where they will lead armies, engage in political simulation/intrigue, hold court and make decisions for the realm and its inhabitants?I know Toady wants to do that, but it's very far away from the plan of what to do next, which was to improve artifacts, then make embark scenarios along with being able to manage settlements of dwarves surrounding your fortress, but aren't directly part of it. Now Toady might just continue along the path of adventurer stuff, but that would be quite a large diversion from the plan so I somewhat doubt it will be up next. Though considering the stuff with how you're going to be able to manage sites outside of your own in fortress mode, that might extend to adventurer mode and improve your nobility positions such that you can be lord of multiple towns and actually have that mean something, as it's a somewhat related issue there.
Adamantine is ridiculously strong and exactly as tough. It is impossible to bend. It may actually behave identically to the current version with all that taken into consideration.
Surely, that would make Adamantine more like Ultima's "Glass Sword": Super strong, but single use, effectively.
Hm... I wonder if the myth arc will mean some of the hardcoded myth stuff, like adamantine will dissapear...
Will it be possible for modders to introduce some 'hardcoded' elements into mythgen? Like, for example, a God of War named Mars, or a God of Music named Eru Iluvatar? How much do you think it'll be possible to shape mythgen over time?
Surely, that would make Adamantine more like Ultima's "Glass Sword": Super strong, but single use, effectively.
Hm... I wonder if the myth arc will mean some of the hardcoded myth stuff, like adamantine will dissapear...
Will it be possible for modders to introduce some 'hardcoded' elements into mythgen? Like, for example, a God of War named Mars, or a God of Music named Eru Iluvatar? How much do you think it'll be possible to shape mythgen over time?
Adamantine: Not single use. Far more hard wearing and effective, but not without eradicating risk. Nothing should be utterly impervious is what I'm getting at.
God names: Initially, wouldn't the names just depend on the language files? I'd assume you could just mod those in. A bit hit and miss as to what you get. You theoretically
Sure, everything breaks even if it doesn't bend, but the thing is, that's for real life. Adamantine is not a real life metal. Adamantine would break the laws of physics in so many ways if it existed in real life. It's material stats are like cheating and just putting the maximum amount for everything. It's 4 times better than steel in steel's best statistics. For most it's over 10 times better. If the new system takes into account the material of the armor, at all, I'm pretty sure adamantine's going to be undamageable.Adamantine is ridiculously strong and exactly as tough. It is impossible to bend. It may actually behave identically to the current version with all that taken into consideration.I'd like to point out that not bending, in something like a sword, is not a good thing. Not matter how tough something is, it breaks. Especially if it doesn't bend. From a gameplay 'balance' perspective - even the 'endgame' stuff should have weaknesses. An immortal hero is not a hero - it's just boring.
The catch here is that while it's interesting, and generally a good idea, to ground fantasy-realm things in real-world physics or theoretical physics, we can (and often should) fudge physics when it's required to make the overall experience better. Otherwise we'll expect things like dwarves making adamantine-based communications systems, if you have stuff like infinite speed of sound. :V
Then again, that would explain a lot about levers...
When are we going to get embark scenarios? Right now every fortress we can make is very generic, I want to be able to create a mining colony or a prison, where I can be locked if I commit a crime. It would be even cooler than The Escapists.So far the plan seems something like this (prone to change, crazy whims and other such happenings).
Also: With the new economy will the things we produce actually matter, like they are in the world and influence it? If we produce 100 swords, will the dwarven army use them? If we produce a lot of food, will the population of other settlements grow quicker? If we produce a lot of books will they be in the world?
Same thing with the adv mod - if I rob a caravan, will its owner lose his investment and be poorer? If I attack food caravans heading for a fortress, will it starve?
When are we going to get embark scenarios? Right now every fortress we can make is very generic, I want to be able to create a mining colony or a prison, where I can be locked if I commit a crime. It would be even cooler than The Escapists.So far the plan seems something like this (prone to change, crazy whims and other such happenings).
Also: With the new economy will the things we produce actually matter, like they are in the world and influence it? If we produce 100 swords, will the dwarven army use them? If we produce a lot of food, will the population of other settlements grow quicker? If we produce a lot of books will they be in the world?
Same thing with the adv mod - if I rob a caravan, will its owner lose his investment and be poorer? If I attack food caravans heading for a fortress, will it starve?
1) 64 bit test release
(Development)
2) Artifacts release 1 (npc artifacts)
(Bug fixes, development)
3) Artifacts release 2 (magic, myths)
(Bug fixes, development)
4) Embark Scenarios (politics and stuff)
(Bug fixes, development)
5) Boats (moving fortress parts)
(Bug fixes, development)
6) Economy (starving peasants)
Plus whatever else happens in between. A year development for each plus a few months of bug fixing and mini-features? Probably something like that anyway. Expect scenarios, boats and economies to be split into multiple parts.
Taverns part two in there somewhere? Sudden crisis as Toady realises politics requires an econony but an economy requires politics? Who knows! :)
What's a fortress moving part? Like Transformers or something?Paraphrasing dwarfmoot (although it's in the development notes somewhere), boats are basically moving sections of map, which means introducing boats will enable bits of fortress to move from one place to another. Which means...I don't know. Crushing Elven merchants with moving walls? Dropping large blocks on approaching armies and having the blocks reset back to original position? Building real stone/cage traps? Dramatically having the front of the mountain open before flooding the world with magma? All sorts of things, I guess.
Wonder if Toady has ever thought about having cannons at least in naval warfare.
Alternatively, we could at least have rocketry, basic incendiaries, etc. After all, while we're assumed to not allow going too modern, gunpowder is fucking old. Cannons, hand cannons, and to some extent matchlocks are also medieval as fuck. Just need to remember that "bulletproof" is a term that has its origins in the same era.Well, regarding naval warfare wikipedia tell us that: From the late Middle Ages onwards, warships began to carry cannon of various calibres. The Battle of Arnemuiden, fought between England and France in 1338 at the start of the Hundred Years' War, was the first recorded European naval battle using artillery.
...as sliding roofs and other stranger stuff.Well, how else is going to McXavier going to take out the dwarfjet out from the beneath the dwarfball court?
Toady means to allow grain/freight elevators and boats and such, all we hear is "crush shit with huge metal walls" it seems.
It's almost like you're trying to put Chief Medical Dwarves out of work ;)Toady means to allow grain/freight elevators and boats and such, all we hear is "crush shit with huge metal walls" it seems.
Isn't that kinda the standard for most new features? How can we use this to crush shit.
I'm looking forward to hearing how much we will really be able to do with it. Kinda hoping there will be some underwater building applications, instead of having to drain the ocean. Even just dropping a "box" of dwarves to the bottom of the ocean without flattening them would be pretty cool.
I'm looking forward to hearing how much we will really be able to do with it. Kinda hoping there will be some underwater building applications, instead of having to drain the ocean. Even just dropping a "box" of dwarves to the bottom of the ocean without flattening them would be pretty cool.
with the new system of weapon and armour damage, do you intend to implement a way or repairing damage? if repairing is implemented, will it require more resources (some more bronze to repair a damaged bronze item etc). does (should?) the damage apply to artifacts? i like the idea of repairing any of my military's named items, even if they aren't artifacts.Strider dramatically pulls up leggings, "These are the pig-tail socks that were broken in a time before time, and have now been sewn anew."
will we see swords breaking into two separate pieces (blade/hilt etc), or gauntlets lose a finger, or chain mail lose some links? lots of fantasy about reforging broken swords, after all. items losing pieces would likely cause item bloat in many cases, and a pretty major rework even if it didnt bloat (so not any time soon i guess).
i would love to see the a quest to reforge the legendary hammer, "roughlung", a cat soap warhammer, broken when it struck the legendary...... well, pretty much anything really
with the new system of weapon and armour damage, do you intend to implement a way or repairing damage? if repairing is implemented, will it require more resources (some more bronze to repair a damaged bronze item etc). does (should?) the damage apply to artifacts? i like the idea of repairing any of my military's named items, even if they aren't artifacts.
Are we going to be able to build and manage our own tavern in adv mode anytime soon? To be honest I've been waiting for this for years now and I feel that there is little missing - we can now build in adv mode and claim places for ourselves, but can't designate areas as taverns, brew drinks, prepare meals, serve customers or hire waitresses or entartainers. Please Toady, I've been waiting for years now.
Are we going to be able to build and manage our own tavern in adv mode anytime soon? To be honest I've been waiting for this for years now and I feel that there is little missing - we can now build in adv mode and claim places for ourselves, but can't designate areas as taverns, brew drinks, prepare meals, serve customers or hire waitresses or entartainers. Please Toady, I've been waiting for years now.
At a bare minimum, they don't seem to change unit type to tavern keeper, though since I don't think you can recruit tavern keepers, that might be a good thing."Ick... what is this?"
"Ick... what is this?"
"Dwarven wine!"
"No it's not, and I don't see any plump helmets back there."
"What's a plump helmet? I've been squeezing some dwarves who came to the inn last week."
any plan to reorganize stragglers job interfaces (like jewlery workshopt) to the new system?
Toady already said this is an unfinished feature that won't do anything right now in last month's future of the fortress reply.Are we going to be able to build and manage our own tavern in adv mode anytime soon? To be honest I've been waiting for this for years now and I feel that there is little missing - we can now build in adv mode and claim places for ourselves, but can't designate areas as taverns, brew drinks, prepare meals, serve customers or hire waitresses or entartainers. Please Toady, I've been waiting for years now.
You can designate tavern zones, and assign companions to them. However, as far as I've seen no one ever visits those places. And I've yet to determine whether an NPC assigned there will serve drinks or not. At a bare minimum, they don't seem to change unit type to tavern keeper, though since I don't think you can recruit tavern keepers, that might be a good thing.
New manager system is very usefull feature, but is it any plans to add [d]etails feature for bags/barrel related jobs, since now "mill 10 rye flower" or "brew 10 River Spirits" and all other jobs (as I see with more than 1 reagent) cannot be automated without annoying tricks.
Will animal people be made more viable anytime soon? There's been a couple of quirks surrounding them for quite awhile in both modes of play.
Will animal people be made more viable anytime soon? There's been a couple of quirks surrounding them for quite awhile in both modes of play.
How exactly do you want this answered apart from 'what quirks, is there a bug report?' before waiting a month for the next Future of the Fortress?
Are elvish abilities (growing weapons, communing with animals) going to become components of the nature sphere under the myth generator, or remain abstracted for the time being? There was a power goal about talking to rabbits and leading them on a revolt, will that make its way in there? Are those terrible wooden armors going to see some kind of magical boost to put them more on par with other races, whether its in regards to strength or the new armor damage system?"There you go, Warrior. Your oaken breastplate has been regrown to be good as new!"
Will Threetoe write any more stories any time soon?Yeah, I've been wondering that.
Are elvish abilities (growing weapons, communing with animals) going to become components of the nature sphere under the myth generator, or remain abstracted for the time being? There was a power goal about talking to rabbits and leading them on a revolt, will that make its way in there? Are those terrible wooden armors going to see some kind of magical boost to put them more on par with other races, whether its in regards to strength or the new armor damage system?"There you go, Warrior. Your oaken breastplate has been regrown to be good as new!"
"So, just as crappy as ever? Gee, thanks."
I'm sure there's nothing wrong with asking, but have you checked out the bug tracker recently? There's hundreds and hundreds of issues. Some of them are bugs, some of them are unfinished features. Unless you say specifically what you want to know, you almost certainly won't get the answer you want.Will animal people be made more viable anytime soon? There's been a couple of quirks surrounding them for quite awhile in both modes of play.
How exactly do you want this answered apart from 'what quirks, is there a bug report?' before waiting a month for the next Future of the Fortress?
There're a couple of bug reports; I just wanted to know if there was a plan to address them before the next update or two. Looks like it's too early to ask, though. My bad.
Will version .5 be considered Beta?No because Beta testing is when the product is nearly finished and is sent out to be tested by other people. Nothing is changing at version 0.50 that would affect that. Depending on your interpretation Dwarf Fortress has either always been in Beta testing, or will never be Beta tested.
Will Threetoe write any more stories any time soon?
I'm sure there's nothing wrong with asking, but have you checked out the bug tracker recently? There's hundreds and hundreds of issues. Some of them are bugs, some of them are unfinished features. Unless you say specifically what you want to know, you almost certainly won't get the answer you want.
You want to know "When will animal men be more viable and less quirky?". Define viable. Define quirk. What do you want to do with an animal man? Are you aware of the massive updates animal men got in this cycle making them hundreds of times more "viable" than previously?
Your question is as vague as "Hey, will you fix the issue with the dwarves some time?". Everything in the game could do with being less "quirky".
It's good to ask questions. But be more specific if you want actual information. DF is a massive game with a huge long-term development plan and nobody can read your mind to guess what you're asking.
Fantastic to see you on the forum! I hope you stick around, and join the community.
I'm not sure I deserved a belittling lecture over a mere misunderstanding, but you've got a point. Here's something less vague, then:
Are there plans to fix issue #0009588 on the Bay12 bug tracker anytime soon? The issue makes animal people undesirable as fortress residents and adventure mode companions because it more than halves their walking speed when they aren't hauling/carrying something in their hands. I'd really like to use animal people as residents in a fortress since it makes the fort's population more varied, but this issue makes it difficult for them to do several jobs efficiently, and thus discourages their use.
Fantastic to see you on the forum! I hope you stick around, and join the community.
So question likes these, when asking about Blah, or X, in the future, is "Sounds good, no time line." Its doubtful there are heinous bugs that ToadyOne and ThreeToe are like, "We could fix that, but nah." Considering this seems like being told no twice in the row on your question, I really do hope you stick around. ToadyOne has over the years, kinda set up a pattern to a certain category of questions. This bug we'll get looked at again, when they become relevant to development. Considering the last release, ToadyOne stated they were gonna start to switch DF over to 64bit, its probably very unlikely that your personal favorite bug is gonna get quashed in the time frame of "soon", unless it exist because of memory registry issues, which, you know, it may.
One the one hand, using a dry dock to build a boat is a great usage of dwarven engineering, but on the other hand it doesn't match the boat building technology of the DF timeline.
I have a feeling that as soon as DF has viking longboats, we will see an entire development cycle dedicated to improve farming.One the one hand, using a dry dock to build a boat is a great usage of dwarven engineering, but on the other hand it doesn't match the boat building technology of the DF timeline.
What, no viking longboats? :V
Longboats are within the DF time line, but Vikings are not within the DF universes...It's not that big of a jump in lore to imagine coastal raiders in longboats once boats and 'normal' fantasy pirates are implemented.
True. Does seem like dry docks would require the ability to transport a boat over land to some degree, something longboats will also require. In game terms, it's reasonable to assume that both mechanics, if they become accessible in fortress mode, will be easier to use with smaller boats.When you travel over dry land, you just pack up your boat and throw it on the wagon. Problem?
And what if your boat IS the wagon?A new Hollywood blockbuster in the making. Zombie Sperm Whale vs Wagon.
And what if your boat IS the wagon?(http://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/photo.goodreads.com/hostedimages/1403828805i/10150645.jpg)
Given the Dwarfmoot talked about boat draft, you'd need to use piers to get out to a sufficient depth for the boats to float free. You can currently build floors/piers without a problem, but last time I tried to build a wave breaker it failed as waves just continued through without being affected.
One the one hand, using a dry dock to build a boat is a great usage of dwarven engineering, but on the other hand it doesn't match the boat building technology of the DF timeline. I'd go for the dry dock anyway, though, as building the boat on land and slide it into the water is likely to be tricky.
And what if your boat IS the wagon?A new Hollywood blockbuster in the making. Zombie Sperm Whale vs Wagon.
And what if your boat IS the wagon?Sigh, it's like you've never been in a caravan. Obviously you pack a wagon and a couple puller animals in the boat, then throw the boat in the wagon when necessary.
will eventually(way WAY back if ever, probably) invaders be able to repurpose your fort to live there, while you are still there? like for instance if your dwarves are stuck underground, the goblins could make a fort on the surface.
And what if your boat IS the wagon?(http://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/photo.goodreads.com/hostedimages/1403828805i/10150645.jpg)
- Hostility settings: No death or violence to regular settings to bleak and horrifying
Human conquered forest retreats end up with temples too.will eventually(way WAY back if ever, probably) invaders be able to repurpose your fort to live there, while you are still there? like for instance if your dwarves are stuck underground, the goblins could make a fort on the surface.
Humans already build keeps directly over conquered elven forest retreats.
And im sure that goblins already do also build trenches and outdoor fortifications on conquered sites too.
- Ability to send a squad off the map to fetch a stolen artifact
...meaning that, if other fortresses and cities produce as many artifacts as us, there will be a LOT of artifacts all over the world. Does this mean less moods and artifacts in the future or is this intended ?
Quote from: Updated development page
- Hostility settings: No death or violence to regular settings to bleak and horrifying
What would "bleak and horrifying" entail? Would this include some of the things that have traditionally been avoided in Dwarf Fortress for various reasons, such as sex and (lack of) consent and whatnot? (There were, I think, some other similar things that I don't remember off the top of my head.)
Although such things can indeed evoke strong emotions, and not always positive, they also can be important components of the more bleak types of stories, sometimes; and Dwarf Fortress does of course aim to be a generator of many different kinds of stories. I understand many people do not want these sorts of things in their worlds/play, but that's alright so long as it's a setting (with probably the default set to the regular settings as we know them now or some such), right? Perhaps?
(Actually now that I read it again it says "hostility settings", so perhaps this really is just about the level of violence, and not other things about how friendly versus horrible things get. In that case, my question stands but without the reference to the dev page.)
Will we be able to put quests to retrieve stolen artifacts on our fortresses? So instead of risking our dwarves in the mission, outsiders would do it.
I honestly like this idea. However, I see a potential problem: To hire mercenaries or offer a reward for its return, wouldn't the reward need to be about equal to the value of the artifact. Depending on the artifact, that could be really big money.
I mean, if the reward was only a fraction of the artifact's value, then it seems likely that one of two scenarios would happen:
(1) Nobody takes up the offer as the reward does not justify the risks. You'd likely need a small army to retrieve it from the kobolds or goblins. Unless the mercs are really, really good at sneaking in, that is.
(2) Mercs come to take the job. But, secretly, they only came to learn who stole it and where it went. (And, perhaps, to demand partial payment up front.) They go and retrieve it. However, rather than return it to the dwarves, they sell it to a human merchant or noble or something because they would pay handsomely for it. That, or they might just keep it for themselves, such as if it was an artifact weapon.
Then again, perhaps gaining a positive reputation with the dwarves could be considered part of the reward? That, and being able to tell stories about it, have your names engraved in dwarven halls and linked in legends to the artifact itself. Heck, such might be worth giving them full dwarven citizenship.
Also, deceiving the dwarves in taking the job but then selling it to the highest bidder should have consequences. Maybe they'd hire more mercs to kill the deceitful mercs who sold it instead of fulfilling the job? Maybe those mercs would find themselves enemies of your entire dwarf civ? Or, maybe players should check the reputation of would-be job takers before giving them the quest?
So much cool stuff, but:Quote
- Ability to send a squad off the map to fetch a stolen artifact
That sounds like the first step to something huge.
Sure, but it was a problem that would occur elsewhere too, as the dev page says there will be quests for adventurers. My question is if we could offer the quests.
For all that to work well we'll need the coinage based economy to make a comeback. Although it tempting to pay the adventurous heroes with a bunch of chickens. :PWill we be able to put quests to retrieve stolen artifacts on our fortresses? So instead of risking our dwarves in the mission, outsiders would do it.
I honestly like this idea. However, I see a potential problem: To hire mercenaries or offer a reward for its return, wouldn't the reward need to be about equal to the value of the artifact. Depending on the artifact, that could be really big money.
I mean, if the reward was only a fraction of the artifact's value, then it seems likely that one of two scenarios would happen:
(1) Nobody takes up the offer as the reward does not justify the risks. You'd likely need a small army to retrieve it from the kobolds or goblins. Unless the mercs are really, really good at sneaking in, that is.
(2) Mercs come to take the job. But, secretly, they only came to learn who stole it and where it went. (And, perhaps, to demand partial payment up front.) They go and retrieve it. However, rather than return it to the dwarves, they sell it to a human merchant or noble or something because they would pay handsomely for it. That, or they might just keep it for themselves, such as if it was an artifact weapon.
Then again, perhaps gaining a positive reputation with the dwarves could be considered part of the reward? That, and being able to tell stories about it, have your names engraved in dwarven halls and linked in legends to the artifact itself. Heck, such might be worth giving them full dwarven citizenship.
Also, deceiving the dwarves in taking the job but then selling it to the highest bidder should have consequences. Maybe they'd hire more mercs to kill the deceitful mercs who sold it instead of fulfilling the job? Maybe those mercs would find themselves enemies of your entire dwarf civ?
Or, maybe players should check the reputation of would-be job takers before giving them the quest? Maybe giving the quest to other dwarves would make it less likely that they would sell it or keep it?
I meant while you're still playing fort there. do goblins build trenches ON your fort, WHILE you still live there?will eventually(way WAY back if ever, probably) invaders be able to repurpose your fort to live there, while you are still there? like for instance if your dwarves are stuck underground, the goblins could make a fort on the surface.
Humans already build keeps directly over conquered elven forest retreats.
And im sure that goblins already do also build trenches and outdoor fortifications on conquered sites too.
"The *disgusting to look at* warthog man dreams of winning the hand of royalty/Wedding into power" (via a mixture of rule the world power ethics, hybridized with desire to love)
Well if it was appropriate, couldn't the mercenary seek to arrange their own terms of payment, then have them barter it out between the broker and the mayor (& others to represent the 'owners' of the reward)
The mercenary might demand the cash sum or equivalent weight in precious metals/goods, but potentially on the cards is getting the adventurer betrothed to a fortress member. Kind of ties into the romanticised thought of offering a princesses/prince's hand in marriage as a peace broker, or having personal motives by individual to woo/contest for this person, though the reality grimly would probably not be prince charming.Quote"The *disgusting to look at* warthog man dreams of winning the hand of royalty/Wedding into power" (via a mixture of rule the world power ethics, hybridized with desire to love)
The mercenary might demand the cash sum or equivalent weight in precious metals/goods, but potentially on the cards is getting the adventurer betrothed to a fortress member...
We could pay them as they pay ours adventurers - with only a big boost to reputation. :)
Here's a thought:"After years of service to the Order, you have finally proven your worthiness to learn our most-guarded secret."
Will the expanded magic system allow for crafting reactions granted via interactions/artifacts/etc? If so, will a crafting reaction learned via interaction be usable in adventure mode? If so I can see this being very useful for modding, like making elves able to innately shape wood, or otherwise add reactions that aren't immediately accessible to ALL adventurers.
If not, I might have to bloat the suggestions forum a little more... owo
Quote from: Updated development page
- Hostility settings: No death or violence to regular settings to bleak and horrifying
What would "bleak and horrifying" entail? Would this include some of the things that have traditionally been avoided in Dwarf Fortress for various reasons, such as sex and (lack of) consent and whatnot? (There were, I think, some other similar things that I don't remember off the top of my head.)
Although such things can indeed evoke strong emotions, and not always positive, they also can be important components of the more bleak types of stories, sometimes; and Dwarf Fortress does of course aim to be a generator of many different kinds of stories. I understand many people do not want these sorts of things in their worlds/play, but that's alright so long as it's a setting (with probably the default set to the regular settings as we know them now or some such), right? Perhaps?
(Actually now that I read it again it says "hostility settings", so perhaps this really is just about the level of violence, and not other things about how friendly versus horrible things get. In that case, my question stands but without the reference to the dev page.)
Literally just the world of Beserk. Go mod in a claymore, roll a human character with one eye and you're all set to go.
Smear blood eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeverywheeere
Code: [Select][ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_DRAGONSLAYER]
[NAME:dragonslayer:dragonslayers]
[SIZE:1800]
[SKILL:SWORD]
[TWO_HANDED:77500]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:62500]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:15]
[ATTACK:EDGE:200000:8000:slash:slashes:NO_SUB:6000]
[ATTACK:EDGE:250:4000:stab:stabs:NO_SUB:5000]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:500000:8000:slap:slaps:flat:6000]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:500:1000:strike:strikes:pommel:5000]
Try this.
Will we be able to travel across the seas in Adventure Mode? Some kind of port system that could transport you across the water or along the coast would be great.Boats are planned after Scenarios and before Economy right now (so yeah, but might take a while). In the meantime fly with an animal-man or walk with a vampire!
I like the idea of a setting that could enable you to generate worlds from My Little Pony-esque with almost no violence or horror to a Berserk-esque world with extreme violence and horror, got to admit I would love to be able to play as Guts and non-consensual sex is a big part of Guts story.
Will we be able to travel across the seas in Adventure Mode? Some kind of port system that could transport you across the water or along the coast would be great.Boats are planned after Scenarios and before Economy right now (so yeah, but might take a while). In the meantime fly with an animal-man or walk with a vampire!
The fleet known as the Twisted Tongs has been ambushed by a primordial giant white sperm whale!
As someone who likes both My Little Pony (please don't hate me) and The Walking Dead/Game of Thrones/etc., I would love this. I would play both extremes depending on mood and caprice.
Also, you're the second person to have mentioned Berserk in response to my question. I'm not familiar with this, but you guys make it sound interesting. It must be this (http://myanimelist.net/anime/33/Berserk?q=Kenp%C3%BB%20denki%20beruseruku), right?
I am staring at that devlog and at the mention of the alternate magical lands, aligned with sphere and stuff. And It just hit me, we've had threads about alternate landforms, buttes, hot springs, geysers, etc. But has anyone ever suggested floating lands? They seem a very common fantasy staple(with the more extreme examples having there only be floating lands and sea, or floating lands that move about the map... perhaps a bit too intense for df), and they'd probably need floatboats to be any fun, but I can't off the top of my head recall floating lands be suggested or talked about.
Anyone recall?
I was talking about the manga (http://mangafox.me/manga/berserk/) but yeah that is the anime adaptation, I love the story and guts is awesome and I suggest reading the manga when you have the time.
In the wonderful new dev page on artifacts and myths, you mention "creative actions taken by gods and ancient races" as a source of creatures, land forms, etc. Will it be possible for creatures in the raws, that will be physically present in the world after generation, to take part in these actions? I think of one of my modded races, and some domesticated creatures, as having been altered or created by another modded race. I would love being able to make the creation myths reflect this. Also, I could imagine powerful wizards creating creatures as servants, or a lasting legacy, in the latter stages of creation.Really hoping the answer is yes to at least some of this :)
You also talk about portals that can introduce new materials and creatures to a world. What will determine the things that can come from these portals? Will it be possible to limit raw-defined creatures to originate from a particular sort of portal, or from portals in general?
How do you manage/distribute time? Do you have any fixed schedule like 4 hours a day trying to build with new compiler, then interrupt and 4 hours to work on new features, then interrupt and 1 hour reading mail, and so on?
Is their plans for artifact armor that affects (be it positively or adversely) the attributes of the user, such as strength, speed and other things.
Lime green is your friiieeend.
I apologise for my transgressions.Is their plans for artifact armor that affects (be it positively or adversely) the attributes of the user, such as strength, speed and other things.Lime green is your friiieeend.
Is their plans for artifact armor that affects (be it positively or adversely) the attributes of the user, such as strength, speed and other things.I don't know if Toady's ever answered this directly, but the answer is doubtlessly yes.
Toady's occassionally said magic items should be more than just a simple "D&D +2 broadsword" so, there's actually a chance that it's 'No'. At least not directly. 'Turns you into a vampire thereby raising your stats', perhaps?Is their plans for artifact armor that affects (be it positively or adversely) the attributes of the user, such as strength, speed and other things.I don't know if Toady's ever answered this directly, but the answer is doubtlessly yes.
Toady's occassionally said magic items should be more than just a simple "D&D +2 broadsword" so, there's actually a chance that it's 'No'. At least not directly. 'Turns you into a vampire thereby raising your stats', perhaps?Is their plans for artifact armor that affects (be it positively or adversely) the attributes of the user, such as strength, speed and other things.I don't know if Toady's ever answered this directly, but the answer is doubtlessly yes.
Toady's occassionally said magic items should be more than just a simple "D&D +2 broadsword" so, there's actually a chance that it's 'No'. At least not directly. 'Turns you into a vampire thereby raising your stats', perhaps?Is their plans for artifact armor that affects (be it positively or adversely) the attributes of the user, such as strength, speed and other things.I don't know if Toady's ever answered this directly, but the answer is doubtlessly yes.
Have you considered reading more Discworld books?
Do you think that, similar to graphical tilesets, there will be a list/file which will allow assignment of specific character codes to units by profession and/or the rest of the item set?
Apologies if I've asked this before, but is there a chance of you ever devoting a release to polishing off the raws? I appreciate the practicality of the case-by-case strategy you use for adding tags, but it does tend to result in some frustratingly rigid parameters.
Now that we have fully customisable job instructions (btw thanks this is really great) do you have any plans to look at the various stockpile options and break downs? Such as what comes under each category, the filter options and even a search option?
Quote from: ThundercraftEither through Adventure or Fortress Mode, will there ever be some way to convert part of an Evil or Good biome to neutral (neither)? If nothing else, will there be some way to stop Evil Rain or Evil Clouds, such as through prayers to a deity, through magic, or some other mystical effect or reaction?
Similarly:
Will there eventually be a way for the actions of an Adventurer to create a new Evil or Good area?Quote from: PatrikLundellMy understanding is that evil/good biomes are going to be reworked as part of the myth/magic stuff. However, the underlying question of whether sphere influences can be induced/manipulated/adjusted by the player is a good one (as well as the follow on question of whether this will happen* in the near or the far future, if the answer is yes).
1. Will there be artifacts with "souls", like a talking sword or maybe a soul jar that an important person could store their own soul in. I think you've addressed this topic before and said you wanted to implement it sooner or later, but will it appear in the "artifact update"?
2. Will your dwarves be able to create artifacts that are actual living(or non-living) units? Like a golem of some kind.
3. Will there be multi-part artifacts? Say something really powerful like a door to the demon/god realm would need both the door itself and the keystone needed to power it that is made separately.
4. I think you've said something about artifacts getting different effects depending of what caused their making (fey, inspiration by gods, possession etc.). What are the current plans regarding the differences?
Quote from: NopenopeHave games, recipes etc. been put off completely from this release arc? If yes, are they planned for the artifact release? Or boats? Or starting scenarios?Quote from: DeKaFuare recipes and the cooking overhaul still on the table (so to speak) for the near future?
Why are some large predators like the Dingo and Wolf not hunting or war trainable, while other large predators like the Leopard and Lion are hunting / war trainable? (Also applies to Giant versions.) Even more confusing: Why is the Black Bear not hunting / war trainable when both Grizzly and Polar Bears are?
Which features are you most looking forward to working on post-myth arc? Or does it vary from day to day?
With the introduction of alcohol inebriation, taverns, and temples, I feel as if the effects of the stress system have become quite rare. It's almost as if one needs to intentionally and actively stress out the dwarves to actually see the effects of it nowadays. It's not like we need to go back to the old days where a tantruming dwarf can send a fort into ruin, but is the current state of almost-permanent euphoria among your dwarves intended for now?
just what do PATTERN_FLIER and UNDER_SWM do?
Ocean Titans don't seem to get generated anymore. Can we expect to see them terrorizing the seas when boats are introduced? We currently have Sea Monsters but they're limited to evil regions and don't have that randomly generated charm.
Do you plan to add more noble positions in Fortress mode--especially ones with special requirements (like offices)--or to strengthen the requirements for the noble positions that exist (like bookkeepers consuming writing material)? If so, is that a near-term milestone or a long-term one?
This might not be for this release, but is indeed a question for the future of the fortress. How much independence or free will for the dwarves or any being that composes the population of your fortress you intent in the end? I mean, eventually we'll end up with "civilian zones/areas" where the dwellers can do whatever they want?
To further what I mean, I'm imaging zones where they can make up their own rooms/houses, workshops, markets, churches, taverns and so on at their own wits within the same site of your fortress.
At GDC it was said that you can set the myth level, that limit the stuff that can happen on the world, humans as some example have an ultra low mythic level and so they can happen even with a ultra low myth level.
My question is, does setting your world mythic level to a high value, force the world generation to generate high mythic level creatures/stuff, or the world will generate itself logically as it always do and if it the generator "feels" a higher mythic level thing is needed it will put this thing without rejecting the world?
As armor stripping is being added, might that also mean weapon using NPCs would be capable of wrestling attacks? Currently this is not so if NPC is in possession of a weapon. Default is attack with weapon, punch or kick.
What are the requirements for an opponent to remove helmets? Does the creature in question need to be intelligent, or can large predators remove helmets as well?
In real life, losing a limb is very painful. In Dwarf Fortress, losing a limb isn't painful at all. Is that going to change?
Any ideas on what went wrong with monster hunters? Don't think anyone's spotted one through the whole release period.
Quote from: ThundercraftAs part of adding armor item damage, are there any plans to allow dwarves or other crafts-persons the ability to repair damaged armor? Or will players be forced to either obtain or make new armor and either sell or smelt badly damaged armor?Quote from: stinkasectomywith the new system of weapon and armour damage, do you intend to implement a way or repairing damage? if repairing is implemented, will it require more resources (some more bronze to repair a damaged bronze item etc). does (should?) the damage apply to artifacts? i like the idea of repairing any of my military's named items, even if they aren't artifacts.
Will armour and weapons be able to be repaired infinitely or could there be a diminishing effect? Could we, in the future, see 'status' effects, like rust on metal? Like if you leave a sword or a helmet in a pond, it rusts.
Could we eventually see books burn to ash? As much as the thought makes me uncomfortable, I'm imagining a scenario where a great store of information is lost from the world when a fortress library is destroyed by a dragon/forgotten beast/angry dwarf with a torch.
Will it be possible for modders to introduce some 'hardcoded' elements into mythgen? Like, for example, a God of War named Mars, or a God of Music named Eru Iluvatar? How much do you think it'll be possible to shape mythgen over time?
Quote from: LordBaalWonder if Toady has ever thought about having cannons at least in naval warfare. If not then I suppose the plan is having them filled with catapults and ballistas? Also, does the plan of adding boats includes making them in fort mode/being captain in adventurer mode? Will boats mean we could have river docks on fortress mode to trade greater quantities of merchandise?Quote from: Urist McWoodBurnerWill you be implementing some sort of port that can be built in fortress mode? That would make ocean embark more interesting and also being able to build ships/wagons to send to trade with other cities?
Do you envision ships on the ocean only for the first release or so, or is it important to make the system generalized so that ships, riverboats and moving fort walls all come out at once?
With the political system will we be able to play as judges or lawyers or have a trial in adv mode? I think that this is much needed with the thief arc - if you are caught you should stand a trial according to the laws of the civ you stole something in. Simply being sentenced seems not enough. I really want to be sent to a penal colony in the game and organize a rebellion there.
will we see swords breaking into two separate pieces (blade/hilt etc), or gauntlets lose a finger, or chain mail lose some links? lots of fantasy about reforging broken swords, after all. items losing pieces would likely cause item bloat in many cases, and a pretty major rework even if it didnt bloat (so not any time soon i guess).
any plan to reorganize stragglers job interfaces (like jewlery workshopt) to the new system?
Quote from: LordBaalWonder if the manager will get any upgrades for things beyond workshop orders. Like mine x amount of coal or fell x amount of sand pear trees.Quote from: Rinin_RusNew manager system is very usefull feature, but is it any plans to add [d]etails feature for bags/barrel related jobs, since now "mill 10 rye flour" or "brew 10 River Spirits" and all other jobs (as I see with more than 1 reagent) cannot be automated without annoying tricks. Or at least is it any plans to add specific products to manager check list? Because "brew alcohol here till it's less than 10 River Spirits" will make life easy enoughQuote from: Urist McGoombaBrotherWill there be some more fixes/enhancements regarding the workshop details menu? Or is the actual status considered as finished? I am especially referring to clay workshops and non-hardcoded reactions/reactions for muscial instruments for other workshops like the mason.
I made this thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=158090.0) for more detailled information, what I mean. Not sure, if I shall make an entry at the mantis bug tracker for this or whether those are features for the suggestion forum.
Back in the 2D days, we had to build a road for wagons to get to the depot, and smooth floors if the depot was underground. Are there any plans to reinstate that requirement (or something similar/equivalent)? I always found it added a nice bit of in-game realism, that this (not-so-)distant outpost needed to connect with whatever roads were in the vicinity before getting the massive caravans and more efficient communications with its home base. And given that the near-future plans include interactions with nearby settlements, this seemed like an appropriate time to bring it up.
Since kobolds, or at least kobold sites, are getting an update soon will there be any expansions to poisoning weapons or world gen traps to make them comparable in challenge to the other major game races?
Since they're smaller than goblins, occur in lower numbers than goblins, and don't even have armor it seems like the environment will have to be more difficult to navigate, at least until the mechanics are in for tossing scorpions at people or poisoned nets or whatever else has been predicted for them.
Do you have any plans for felled trees or piles of rocks blocking paths for multi-tile things with wheels like wagons or siege engines? Obviously tiles are very fluid when it comes to moving over furniture but it seems like there'd be something missing from the arrival of goblin siege engines if big piles of logs in their path don't need to be cleared out, allowing the dwarves more time to flee or maneuver.
Are elvish abilities (growing weapons, communing with animals) going to become components of the nature sphere under the myth generator, or remain abstracted for the time being? There was a power goal about talking to rabbits and leading them on a revolt, will that make its way in there? Are those terrible wooden armors going to see some kind of magical boost to put them more on par with other races, whether its in regards to strength or the new armor damage system?
Will/do semi-artifacts gradually wear out and is there going to be a way to get armor to semi-artifact status in adventure mode if you're really desperate for that adamantine helm to be passed down to your grandchildren once they're implemented?
Will Threetoe write any more stories any time soon?
Quote from: InariusToady, do you mind talking a bit more about how do your brother and you work, everyday ? Does he bring the idea and you the code ? Does he help you on debugging, or code himself, test the game ?Quote from: mifkiHow do you manage/distribute time? Do you have any fixed schedule like 4 hours a day trying to build with new compiler, then interrupt and 4 hours to work on new features, then interrupt and 1 hour reading mail, and so on?
will eventually(way WAY back if ever, probably) invaders be able to repurpose your fort to live there, while you are still there? like for instance if your dwarves are stuck underground, the goblins could make a fort on the surface.
By "editors for fixed worlds" is that what you were talking about at Dwarfmoot with people being able to create their own worlds and sites and make Moria replicas, etc?
What would "bleak and horrifying" entail? Would this include some of the things that have traditionally been avoided in Dwarf Fortress for various reasons, such as sex and (lack of) consent and whatnot? (There were, I think, some other similar things that I don't remember off the top of my head.)
Oh, and at the other side of the spectrum, is "No death [...]" to be taken literally? Will there be no death at all in this setting (and what would that mean for the demographics and such of the worlds)? Or just no death due to fights and wars and the like?
Will we be able to play as said intelligent artifacts? Will we at least be able to talk to them?
It seems that, in the development page, you want to give a very important role to artifact(s) in the next version(s). For now, artifacts are numerous in Fortress mode, meaning that, if other fortresses and cities produce as many artifacts as us, there will be a LOT of artifacts all over the world. Does this mean less moods and artifacts in the future or is this intended ?
Will we be able to put quests to retrieve stolen artifacts on our fortresses? So instead of risking our dwarves in the mission, outsiders would do it.
Will the expanded magic system allow for crafting reactions granted via interactions/artifacts/etc? If so, will a crafting reaction learned via interaction be usable in adventure mode? If so I can see this being very useful for modding, like making elves able to innately shape wood, or otherwise add reactions that aren't immediately accessible to ALL adventurers.
1. Why it is impossible to distribute the computation to find the path of creatures between the threads?
I know, here are a lot of problems with no-blocking a??ess to memory, but for example i can't find any objections to separate eery hundred of creatures in fortress to different processor, to create fortresses with population more than 300+ dwarves.
Other idea is to separate working with world outside of fortress to other thread - i think here is no need for big changes for it.
Ok, it's just not suggestion - i sure you thinking all this and found some problems, and i just intrested to find more about these problems.
2.Whether the dwarves have the opportunity to remarry?In some sutuation, with some ethics, with law-realese, etc.
3.Would player be able to animate inanimate objects and plants with some magic systems? For example, it would be possible to assemble an army of Ents or swarm of knives?
4.About intellegent artifacts... what about books that can impact on the psyche and beliefs of reader?
I mean, that could be done some of these things that's vampires, parasites suck the soul, or anything like that.
5.What about runic magic or something else similar to it?It's really dwarf-style.
6.Are you planning diversify the dwarven politics? Make meetings, protests, get to fight for the financial situation?
7.Are you planning natural calamities and disasters? Floods there, earthquakes, volcanic?
8.How do you imagine the mental weapon in the DF?
9. Would seasons impact on agriculture more realistic?
10. Will there be further developed composite objects, in addition to music. tools? I meant things like to see armor made of plates, rivets, leather straps, or, for example, chain mail from a pile of steel rings, wooden spears, and the tip of the handle of the crossbow, arcs etc.
11. Will it somehow resist exploits? Would impose restrictions on the amount that can accommodate a tile (excluding living creatures) that there was no quantum warehouses?//
12. Do you plan to modify the skills system? The ideal option in (not)my opinion - the separation of knowledge required for the job, attributes, and motor skills. That this would be the most it. Cutter can easily become an engraver, having due talents and woodcutter quickly learn to chop enemies. Any same varschiki potash and soap-boiler are good brew. And vice versa - the jeweler will be hard to learn how to dig, and craftsman of the soldier will be released so-so.
13. That C++ feature is our favorite? Especially in modern C++.
14. How many classes in DF code, summary?
15. Have you any plans to replace hell(as location) to genrated system, included into myth generation? For exmple, in world with zero fantasy we should n't have hell.
16. Can you tell more about how you represent fragments of primal egg and other generated mega-location, how big they should be?
17. Pleaaase give as some screeeens from myth generator, demonstrated in video from conferetion...
18. And some Scamps :P
19. If you still remember , how the revolutions works ... What reasons are possible?
20. Why where are so few hunters monsters?
21.When the game learn to understand that civilization is dead and why it is so difficult to code?
22. I know, in DF more features then I can find, playing for ages of real time...
Possible you can tell as more about one random feature, that you really like but but it is rarely used?
23. Have you even use genetic alghoritms\genetic programming or neural networks?
In the wonderful new dev page on artifacts and myths, you mention "creative actions taken by gods and ancient races" as a source of creatures, land forms, etc. Will it be possible for creatures in the raws, that will be physically present in the world after generation, to take part in these actions? I think of one of my modded races, and some domesticated creatures, as having been altered or created by another modded race. I would love being able to make the creation myths reflect this. Also, I could imagine powerful wizards creating creatures as servants, or a lasting legacy, in the latter stages of creation.
You also talk about portals that can introduce new materials and creatures to a world. What will determine the things that can come from these portals? Will it be possible to limit raw-defined creatures to originate from a particular sort of portal, or from portals in general?
To follow up on what you said during Dwarfmoot, the second half of my question was about how modders would interact with the myth generator. Do you envision giving modders some control over worldgen? Not to get too suggestion-y, but something like packing default worldgen parameters somewhere in the raws. Or letting certain game objects appear only under certain conditions.
Do you play not make it possible to hold on to something and move (ei so something that is very strong and could fly can grab someone, fly, and then drop them for deadly damage or enable land mob to grab a enemy and pull it somewhere)?
Quote from: 90908Is their plans for artifact armor that affects (be it positively or adversely) the attributes of the user, such as strength, speed and other things.Quote from: Shonai_DwellerToady's occassionally said magic should be more than just a simple "D&D +2 broadsword" so, there's actually a chance that it's 'No'. At least not directly. 'Turns you into a vampire thereby raising your stats', perhaps?
This may be somewhat of an odd question, but are there any plans for a megabeast lair revamp?
What I mean is, and it links with the second question I want to ask, will there eventually be more types of sites that serve as lairs, and will some of them be more like randomly generated dungeons in the vein of vaults, with minions and such and the megabeast serving as the "boss" at the end of it? Of course there'd still be the more simple burrows/mounds and such as obviously a large dungeon wouldn't fit a roc or a hydra, but if there's eventually gonna be randomly generated sentient titan/FB-like creatures then it'd probably more fitting for them to settle in more elaborate sites with worshippers or some other types of servants.
As for the second question: will there be more randomly generated dungeons and whatnot later on? For example, abandoned aboveground castles and fortresses with zombified peasants and other servants, and an evil king/queen wielding some type of artifact weapon or amulet that lets them raise the dead and also makes any type of undead obey.
Looking at Dwarf Mode right now, what systems in your mind are currently "mostly placeholder" vs. more or less complete?