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[einstein9073]

HOLY CRAP 195478262101 REPLIES AT ONCE

Spoiler: HFS rock swimming (click to show/hide)

The first priority will probably just be dealing with walled-off hallways and stuff like that though -- things that are really easy to do that kill off entire sieges.  I guess it's entirely possible that they wouldn't be able to find you if you hid behind 10 meter thick walls hidden off in random places, but then it should be possible for them to live in your upper levels for years while you work away tradeless on mushrooms down below (although there are major obstacles to that that make it non-practical for the dev page).  They'd probably just leave after looting all your exposed items and slaughtering anybody left outside (including any entity pop infrastructure you've got out there).  Although once they can get through a single wall, they can just dig ambitious tunnels for you at random I suppose.  As long as walling yourself in has reasonable results, I'll be happy with however they handle it.  Right now it's too much of an exploit (of course, the whole "digging invaders" is enough of a touchy subject that it's explictly stated as optional on the dev page, and how you handle exploits is up to you at that point).

I would propose 2 systems to distinguish normal invaders from game ending HFS. It's realistic that if you hole up behind really really thick walls and never trade, then normal invaders don't have a way to realise there's dwarves hiding so they should leave you alone. At the same time, HFS shouldn't be stopped by walling it off no matter how thick the walls are.

Actually the HFS can have an alternative to digging to get around the current "wall off" exploit: what if they could pass through walls and floors? That is, they swim through rock just like they swim through magma? Then HFS would truly be the game enders and the existing infinite spawning of them would ensure forts die no matter what.
...

What would prevent the clowns from coming straight from the H.F.S. Clown Car to your wagon at embark? If they really want to Entertain (i.e., bring Fun^TM to) the world's children, and they can swim through rock...

Spoiler: Power-consuming trap-resetting (click to show/hide)

Just a thought on the auto-reloading of weapon traps: what about making it a use of power.  Run a bunch of axles and gear assemblies behind or above all the weapon traps.  When one needs reloading, it causes a temporary use of power.  So 10 excess power in the system could power reloading everything as long as they don't all go at once. ...

I <3 this idea. It causes traps to not magically reset themselves AND it forces insanely complicated SUPER-DWARFY constructions in your traphalls.

Spoiler: Indiana Jones and the Fortress of Doom (click to show/hide)

...

Are there plans to get constructed (wooden, Bituminous coal, Platinum) balls for rolling traps?

We didn't have specific plans, but since we have trap components, including a spiked ball, it would certainly be a reasonable and pretty easy thing to do.  It would just need to know that it can roll (which is simple if it's just a tag or something).  If that extended to... like rolling cylinders or something, as flavor it would be fine, but I haven't thought about how to implement a more complicated rolling profile.

This would be exceedingly awesome. A 3-tile axle dropping from a gear assembly onto some ramps, and thundering into a squad of goblinses.

OOOH Even better - This is a Lignite rolling stone pillar. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. It is encircled with bands of chalk and adorned with hanging rings of tower-cap. The object menaces with spikes of microcline and awesome. On the object is an image of a Birch axle and goblins. The axle is rolling. The goblins are running. The axle is killing the goblins.

The only thing better than an automated goblin mangling trap is an automated goblin mangling trap THAT IS ON FIRE. You know, a +!!trap!!+

Spoiler: Shapeshifting woundshifting (click to show/hide)

blah blah shapeshifting

...
The trick, of course, would be working out a set of tags that would give best behaviour under most circumstances.

...
Example: Let's say we've got Fred, a shape-shifting creature of awesomesauce. He starts off with the 4-armed biped as above, and gets a massive gash on his left lower arm - "limb2l". He shifts to a human form, which doesn't have any limbs with the "limb2l" (you can confirm this yourself - do you have four arms? If so, see a doctor!), and hence has no wound. Perhaps he has phantom pain, but that's a decision for another time. Anyway, he then decides to go to an armed-winged-biped, where the wings have the "limb2l" and "limb2r" tags appropriately. To his dismay, his left wing is suddenly bleedin'.

If you shift from (a six-limbed creature with a wound to the middle left limb) to a human, I'd expect you actually shift to (a human with a significant wound on the of your lower abdomen/back). Bleeding is bleeding - you can't shift to a human and mosey off to the dang hospital.

[Psieye]

I certainly can't say how much Toady's thought of interfaces for these advanced features, but looking at DF talks gives some hint that he wants the "talk to people to get stuff done" side of things. Notably the DF talk where he mentions the eventual feature of playing as a civ leader where you rule your kingdom via your aides just like in real life. They'd give you reports, and you'd then issue orders back to them which they'd relay on and execute. This introduces the possibility of dishonest aides who lie for whatever reason, and also for inaccuracies. Thinking of how we have the Bookkeeper dwarf right now (with built-in inaccuracies unless he slaves away at maximum precision which you can only afford to do later in a fort's life) and how Toady initially put in the Arsenal Dwarf, as well as the Manager dwarf issuing batch orders - Toady wants actual dwarves filling in shoes of administrators that would in real-life ensure a leader's decision gets executed.

Spoiler: HFS rock swimming (click to show/hide)

The first priority will probably just be dealing with walled-off hallways and stuff like that though -- things that are really easy to do that kill off entire sieges.  I guess it's entirely possible that they wouldn't be able to find you if you hid behind 10 meter thick walls hidden off in random places, but then it should be possible for them to live in your upper levels for years while you work away tradeless on mushrooms down below (although there are major obstacles to that that make it non-practical for the dev page).  They'd probably just leave after looting all your exposed items and slaughtering anybody left outside (including any entity pop infrastructure you've got out there).  Although once they can get through a single wall, they can just dig ambitious tunnels for you at random I suppose.  As long as walling yourself in has reasonable results, I'll be happy with however they handle it.  Right now it's too much of an exploit (of course, the whole "digging invaders" is enough of a touchy subject that it's explictly stated as optional on the dev page, and how you handle exploits is up to you at that point).

I would propose 2 systems to distinguish normal invaders from game ending HFS. It's realistic that if you hole up behind really really thick walls and never trade, then normal invaders don't have a way to realise there's dwarves hiding so they should leave you alone. At the same time, HFS shouldn't be stopped by walling it off no matter how thick the walls are.

Actually the HFS can have an alternative to digging to get around the current "wall off" exploit: what if they could pass through walls and floors? That is, they swim through rock just like they swim through magma? Then HFS would truly be the game enders and the existing infinite spawning of them would ensure forts die no matter what.
...

What would prevent the clowns from coming straight from the H.F.S. Clown Car to your wagon at embark? If they really want to Entertain (i.e., bring Fun^TM to) the world's children, and they can swim through rock...

Easily handwaved. Call it a cold-sleep seal which is broken when HFS first spawn as it is right now. Call it ignorance of the surface because most demons prefer being deeeeeeeeep down in the pits and have no reason to be around the lowest layers of our DF maps before they realise something can dig 'up there'. Maybe they had no reason to 'invent' the rockpass magic until they found incentive when a dwarf showed up. Reasons why they don't kill everything before we discover them can be thought of later if the rock swimming is implemented at all.

[JimiD]

One man's Indiana Jones death ball trap is anothers Marble Run.

Now if those rock balls trigger pressure plates we could have some fun.

But if they had mass and integrated with the moving bits of the fortress then we could have Mouse Trap type fun.

[Toybasher]

A commant for Toady: For treating Adventurer's wounds.

How about in the health menu in the treatment section all wounds would show up there. you could then select the wound and what to do with it, Like for a broken arm

Right upper arm, (blah blah broken bone heavy bruising needs splint blah blah)

Treat? then, you get some options

Apply splint
apply bandage
set bone
suture
(etc)
this would make it very simple for new players for  treating wounds, without it being too complex when selecting things like bandages you get a view of your backpack and then select what items to use for bandaging. And perhaps low skill when doing complex things can end up wasting supplies and making wounds only worse or taking even longer or heal and more infection prone, You could also just make a doctor join you and him him treat you (surgery would only be possible by other doctors, you can also do surgery on other people but creatures should never be able to serf-operate)

[Topace3k]

Will the heart and throat ever get any other use? I mean you fixed major arteries for the next update, but a blue heart (function completely lost) should be fatal, at the same time throat wounds should cause death from not being able to breathe like the old 40d days.

Yes, this is very important.  I was messing around in the arena and noticed that adamantine axe slashes to the throat never did more than "tearing the skin" or whatever- its as if the throat has no arteries or other functions assigned to it!  This is especially bad for animals, who used to be able to occasionally take down a dwarf by tearing out their throat- the natural hunting behavior of an animal and a desired possible outcome from such an encounter.  As it is now, even latching on and shaking an opponent by their throat repeatedly does very, very, very little- less damage than attacking pretty much any other body part.  Another thing, biting attacks seem to rarely cause bleeding, even against unclothed opponents, when in fact the teeth should be generally tearing flesh open.

[VWSpeedRacer]

The Arsenal Dwarf looks surprised by the ferocity of Toady One's onslaught!

[James.Denholm]

Spoiler: Shapeshifting woundshifting (click to show/hide)

blah blah shapeshifting

...
The trick, of course, would be working out a set of tags that would give best behaviour under most circumstances.

...
Example: Let's say we've got Fred, a shape-shifting creature of awesomesauce. He starts off with the 4-armed biped as above, and gets a massive gash on his left lower arm - "limb2l". He shifts to a human form, which doesn't have any limbs with the "limb2l" (you can confirm this yourself - do you have four arms? If so, see a doctor!), and hence has no wound. Perhaps he has phantom pain, but that's a decision for another time. Anyway, he then decides to go to an armed-winged-biped, where the wings have the "limb2l" and "limb2r" tags appropriately. To his dismay, his left wing is suddenly bleedin'.

If you shift from (a six-limbed creature with a wound to the middle left limb) to a human, I'd expect you actually shift to (a human with a significant wound on the of your lower abdomen/back). Bleeding is bleeding - you can't shift to a human and mosey off to the dang hospital.

Fah-fah-fah-phantom pain?

[Footkerchief]

Will the heart and throat ever get any other use? I mean you fixed major arteries for the next update, but a blue heart (function completely lost) should be fatal, at the same time throat wounds should cause death from not being able to breathe like the old 40d days.

Yes, this is very important.  I was messing around in the arena and noticed that adamantine axe slashes to the throat never did more than "tearing the skin" or whatever- its as if the throat has no arteries or other functions assigned to it!

This is the "major arteries" problem that Toybasher mentioned.  It's fixed for the upcoming release.

[Urist McDepravity]

The first is probably easier than the second to put in, even if the second is more realistic.  The first priority will probably just be dealing with walled-off hallways and stuff like that though -- things that are really easy to do that kill off entire sieges.  I guess it's entirely possible that they wouldn't be able to find you if you hid behind 10 meter thick walls hidden off in random places, but then it should be possible for them to live in your upper levels for years while you work away tradeless on mushrooms down below (although there are major obstacles to that that make it non-practical for the dev page).  They'd probably just leave after looting all your exposed items and slaughtering anybody left outside (including any entity pop infrastructure you've got out there).  Although once they can get through a single wall, they can just dig ambitious tunnels for you at random I suppose.  As long as walling yourself in has reasonable results, I'll be happy with however they handle it.  Right now it's too much of an exploit (of course, the whole "digging invaders" is enough of a touchy subject that it's explictly stated as optional on the dev page, and how you handle exploits is up to you at that point).

Will type of material matter in terms of how long it will take to be crushed or whether it can be crushed at all? Theres a big difference between wooden fence and block of solid steel/adamantine.

[BigFatDwarf]

Seeing as how the whole world would be living, with caravans, thieves' dens, towns and all the schemes and politics, sites growing, thieves stealing, creatures murdering, how will this effect DF, performance wise? For all the calculations, it seems like a black hole of FPS, really. (from a non-expert's viewing position)

[cameron]

Seeing as how the whole world would be living, with caravans, thieves' dens, towns and all the schemes and politics, sites growing, thieves stealing, creatures murdering, how will this effect DF, performance wise? For all the calculations, it seems like a black hole of FPS, really. (from a non-expert's viewing position)

tying in with this, how much of what goes on in world gen will be continuing in play (aging and wars and buildings and stuff) in the next few releases

[Acanthus117]

About adventure mode reactions, will we be able to assign them the skills that are used for said reaction? Will they be like Fort Mode reactions, in where one gets skill EXP from doing said reaction?

[Psieye]

About adventure mode reactions, will we be able to assign them the skills that are used for said reaction? Will they be like Fort Mode reactions, in where one gets skill EXP from doing said reaction?

Wouldn't we get this answer when .09 gets released? We already have basic adventure mode reactions coming in so we can tinker about in the raws.

[Acanthus117]

Oh yeah.

I'm just soooo excited, and planning a mod for this...

[ManaUser]

Regarding the Arsenal Dwarf, I was just thinking how a more useful incarnation of that position might work. What if they gathered up complete uniforms ahead of time so they would be there as soon as someone needed them? It should be configurable how many of each uniform to keep on hand, and of course if there was no uniform waiting in the arsenal, military dwarves should hunt the pieces down on their own as normal.