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Finally... => Forum Games and Roleplaying => Mafia => Topic started by: notquitethere on March 24, 2023, 02:19:25 pm

Title: Auto-Mafia - Game Over - Mafia Win!
Post by: notquitethere on March 24, 2023, 02:19:25 pm
Auto-Mafia

This is a multi-day game of mafia that only lasts one game day.

At the end of the one and only day, after the flip all players PM a list of all the other players in order of elimination. Mafia additionally submit an order to the players they'd like to mafiakill; the doctor submits a list of players they want to protect; and the Cop submits a list of suspects they wish to inspect. Then the entirety of the rest of the game is automated based on these preferences and we see which team won.

This setup is based on Alternating 9P (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Alternating_9P), with the cop and doc acting on alternate nights. This means the cop won't live long if they're the only one to claim, so bear that in mind.

Spoiler: Mafia Roles (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Mafia Rules (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Voting specifics (click to show/hide)

Signups:
- Toony
- Jim
- MaximumSpin
- FallacyofUrist
- Fluffe9911
- a1s
- Zemaj
- Irony Owl
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - (Short, Beginner Friendly). Signups: 0/7+
Post by: ToonyMan on March 24, 2023, 02:47:43 pm
Auto-Mafia: When You Don't Got Time To Actually Play Mafia

okay I'll join
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - (Short, Beginner Friendly). Signups: 0/7+
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 24, 2023, 03:04:16 pm
In.

You get bonus points if you use AI models trained on our posts to play the rest of the game for us.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - (Short, Beginner Friendly). Signups: 2/7+
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 24, 2023, 07:22:12 pm
I'm kind of pessimistic about how this'll go, but that doesn't mean I don't want to try it. I'm in.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - (Short, Beginner Friendly). Signups: 2/7+
Post by: FallacyofUrist on March 24, 2023, 09:31:21 pm
Also in.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - (Short, Beginner Friendly). Signups: 2/7+
Post by: Fluffe9911 on March 24, 2023, 11:59:41 pm
In
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - (Short, Beginner Friendly). Signups: 0/7+
Post by: notquitethere on March 25, 2023, 09:32:14 am
You get bonus points if you use AI models trained on our posts to play the rest of the game for us.
That would be very fun to see, but probably too much work to implement! Still, I could definitely see a game in the future where players could only communicate through artificially generated text.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - (Short, Beginner Friendly). Signups: 5/7+
Post by: hector13 on March 25, 2023, 11:46:33 am
I’m curious to see how this goes.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - (Short, Beginner Friendly). Signups: 5/7+
Post by: notquitethere on March 25, 2023, 12:25:08 pm
Curious enough to join?
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - (Short, Beginner Friendly). Signups: 5/7+
Post by: hector13 on March 25, 2023, 12:43:39 pm
I’m not sure it would be fair on others as baby appears to be in a phase (hopefully just a phase!) of allowing me <5 hours of sleep in any given 24 hour period, so my activity will be basically minimal.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - (Short, Beginner Friendly). Signups: 5/7+
Post by: a1s on March 25, 2023, 12:48:15 pm
In
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - (Short, Beginner Friendly). Signups: 6/7+
Post by: zemaj on March 26, 2023, 11:59:25 am
/In

interesting setup, this should be good
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - (Short, Beginner Friendly). Signups: 7/7+ (9 preferable)
Post by: notquitethere on March 26, 2023, 12:08:34 pm
Cool, we now have enough people.

Current plan: I'll look to start this at 12am GMT Tuesday morning (in about 30 hours time). That should give any stragglers a chance to join (as 9 could be better than 7). Night will begin 12am GMT Friday morning. Then I'll have the end of Friday/weekend to run the rest of the days and nights in the spreadsheet and we will have a result before the end of the week.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - (Short, Beginner Friendly). Signups: 7/7+ (9 preferable)
Post by: IronyOwl on March 26, 2023, 01:34:03 pm
In, let's see what happens
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - (Short, Beginner Friendly). Signups: 7/7+ (9 preferable)
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 27, 2023, 11:56:40 pm
In, let's see what happens

Holy shit, took me a minute to realize.

Been a while, friend.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - (Short, Beginner Friendly). Signups: 7/7+ (9 preferable)
Post by: IronyOwl on March 28, 2023, 02:32:49 am
Indeed! I look forward to killing you N1.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - (Short, Beginner Friendly). Signups: 8/7+ (9 preferable)
Post by: notquitethere on March 28, 2023, 02:38:21 am
Okay, I will be sending out roles in a few hours time. Last possible moment to sign up is now.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - (Short, Beginner Friendly). Baking roles...
Post by: notquitethere on March 28, 2023, 05:19:18 pm
Auto-Mafia Day 1

Spoiler: Role PMs (click to show/hide)

The day has begun. In 72 hours, on Friday, 23:30 GMT, the day will end and you will submit your lists and the rest of the game shall be automated. Town have three days to work out who is most suspicious.

There are two of the mafia, hidden among your number. D1 will proceed like a normal mafia day with a revealed flip, with automation kicking in for all successive phases. Good luck!

Vote Count
- Toonyman
- Jim Groovester
- MaximumSpin
- FallacyofUrist
- Fluffe9911
- a1s
- Zemaj
- Irony Owl
- No Elimination
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 28, 2023, 05:23:37 pm
But how will I shitpost in RVS if I can't vote people until the end of Day 1?

There are players I want to pick on, like FallacyofUrist, who is always scum and therefore a perfect target for RVS shitposting.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 28, 2023, 05:27:47 pm
Like, where's the fun in the game going to be if we're not going to risk accidentally hammering a player because of irresponsible early game voting?
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: notquitethere on March 28, 2023, 05:40:12 pm
Note: the eagle-eyed of you will see I have made a small correction in the OP about how voting on D1 works. I will be providing regular vote counts at ~12 hour intervals, but there are no hammers.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 28, 2023, 05:45:28 pm
Fuck yes.

FallacyofUrist.

- There are no hammers.

Booooooooooo

It would be fucking hilarious if Day 1 ending in an unintentional quickhammer was a possibility.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: FallacyofUrist on March 28, 2023, 06:15:22 pm
We compose our lists after the flip, huh?

That makes the first-Day execution very important.

It already was, really, since it's the only execution we can directly base off game behavior. The rest of the executions are just extrapolation.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: FallacyofUrist on March 28, 2023, 06:16:57 pm
Fuck yes.

FallacyofUrist.
As usual I would like to note that I'm not scum this time. Unlike the usual I'm telling the truth. You have no idea how relieved I felt when I read those joyful words.

Now the question is, is Jim acting playful as cover for being scum? It's too early to tell.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: FallacyofUrist on March 28, 2023, 06:26:47 pm
notquitethere: What happens if two players choose to sheep each other? Does the game crash, summoning an eldritch demon to eat us all?
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: notquitethere on March 28, 2023, 06:38:58 pm
notquitethere: What happens if two players choose to sheep each other? Does the game crash, summoning an eldritch demon to eat us all?
This is a very good question, one which I should have anticipated. It would be unsatisfying if players lost out on their votes because of sheeping one another... If players are sheeping, they are encouraged to also submit a list of suspicions in case their sheep sheeps them.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: FallacyofUrist on March 28, 2023, 06:48:50 pm
notquitethere: What happens if two players choose to sheep each other? Does the game crash, summoning an eldritch demon to eat us all?
This is a very good question, one which I should have anticipated. It would be unsatisfying if players lost out on their votes because of sheeping one another... If players are sheeping, they are encouraged to also submit a list of suspicions in case their sheep sheeps them.
Then if two players sheep each other, and each submits a backup list, which list is followed?
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: notquitethere on March 28, 2023, 07:17:22 pm
notquitethere: What happens if two players choose to sheep each other? Does the game crash, summoning an eldritch demon to eat us all?
This is a very good question, one which I should have anticipated. It would be unsatisfying if players lost out on their votes because of sheeping one another... If players are sheeping, they are encouraged to also submit a list of suspicions in case their sheep sheeps them.
Then if two players sheep each other, and each submits a backup list, which list is followed?
I guess I flip for it. But let's try to avoid that happening, okay. I want a good clean game with minimal paradoxes.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: zemaj on March 28, 2023, 07:49:40 pm
Woot!  Let's go!

I'm definitely invested in a game that has a rule change/clarification posted ~20min after game start.


***

Based on posts so far, my early reads tell me that JimGroovester and FallacyOfUrist are top candidates for our scum.  It is early yet, but think I may have just wrapped it up on D1... not bad.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: FallacyofUrist on March 28, 2023, 07:52:49 pm
Glad to hear we've already wrapped everything up.

Wait, wait, wait. I'm not mafia though.

So why would you think that I am?
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: zemaj on March 28, 2023, 08:15:50 pm
Glad to hear we've already wrapped everything up.

Wait, wait, wait. I'm not mafia though.

So why would you think that I am?

aside from the slightly prickly, direct, and timely response to an obvious joke alluding to how there were only two players (well, three, if you count my post, but I really don't know if that would be proper in context) posting in-thread despite the game having been on for >2h at that point?

no reason, really... but thanks for sharing the LAMIST reaction ;D
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: FallacyofUrist on March 28, 2023, 08:21:08 pm
aside from the slightly prickly, direct, and timely response to an obvious joke alluding to how there were only two players (well, three, if you count my post, but I really don't know if that would be proper in context) posting in-thread despite the game having been on for >2h at that point?

no reason, really... but thanks for sharing the LAMIST reaction ;D
This is just how I normally act. I appreciate your efforts in using apparent snap reactions to gather information, however.

That's obviously not what you're doing, but I'll treat it like that anyways.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Fluffe9911 on March 28, 2023, 08:23:52 pm
Posting to show I exist!
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 28, 2023, 08:26:11 pm
Do I believe FoU is really town this time?

I think I do.

Unlike the usual I'm telling the truth. You have no idea how relieved I felt when I read those joyful words.
This looks like genuine happiness to me.



Do I believe I can trust Jim in this game?

I'm not as confident, but we'll see. I'm not as convinced by their playful opening because of the game where he was mafia with Max in, Kill Jim Jack Tric Now.



Do I believe zemaj is town?

Probably, I don't know their experience with the game but they look like town.



I was going to shitpost in this game the whole time by copy-pasting AI chat responses, but then I thought better on it.

PPE:
Posting to show I exist!
You exist!
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: FallacyofUrist on March 28, 2023, 08:31:06 pm
Posting to show I exist!
Are you sure you exist? Maybe you're actually secretly a hydra of Org and Dermonster.



I was going to shitpost in this game the whole time by copy-pasting AI chat responses, but then I thought better on it.
That sounds like something Jim would do, actually (see his role in my most recent BYOR).
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: FallacyofUrist on March 28, 2023, 08:32:47 pm
Oh, and zemaj. He's not scum, I just want to see his reaction.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: IronyOwl on March 28, 2023, 08:33:50 pm
Posting to show I exist!
You do exist! You don't seem very interested in finding scum, though.


I was going to shitpost in this game the whole time by copy-pasting AI chat responses, but then I thought better on it.
What would the input for that have looked like?
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Fluffe9911 on March 28, 2023, 08:35:25 pm
Are you sure you exist? Maybe you're actually secretly a hydra of Org and Dermonster.
I don't know who either of those two people are so that means I must exist!
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: FallacyofUrist on March 28, 2023, 08:35:59 pm
Are you sure you exist? Maybe you're actually secretly a hydra of Org and Dermonster.
I don't know who either of those two people are so that means I must exist!
Well, I can't argue with that. Do you think I'm mafia?
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Fluffe9911 on March 28, 2023, 08:40:10 pm
Well, I can't argue with that. Do you think I'm mafia?
No clue!
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: FallacyofUrist on March 28, 2023, 08:41:25 pm
No clue!
Also can't argue with that. Well, I can't yet.

If I asked you the same question in 48 hours from now, do you think you'd have a decent guess?
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Fluffe9911 on March 28, 2023, 08:42:53 pm
Also can't argue with that. Well, I can't yet.

If I asked you the same question in 48 hours from now, do you think you'd have a decent guess?
Unless you self-incriminate yourself on words alone probably not!
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: FallacyofUrist on March 28, 2023, 08:47:50 pm
Unless you self-incriminate yourself on words alone probably not!
Well that's the general idea of Mafia, I'm afraid.

While role powers complicate things, you have to figure out who self-incriminates and who self-proves-innocence just by going off their behavior.

Fortunately we know that a, the mafia exist and are out to get us, and b, that they know their whole team's identity. The mafia can't just not know these things, and that can produce changes in behavior.

We also know there's a Cop and a Doctor, and the presence of those roles will change the behavior of the role-haver. However, since revealing those players will put them at risk, I'd advise you not to publicly speculate on which players have those roles, but if you suspect someone does, you can use that as secret justification for not voting them very highly.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 28, 2023, 09:47:48 pm
The mafia are Fallacy and ToonyMan.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 28, 2023, 10:00:21 pm
Oh, and zemaj. He's not scum, I just want to see his reaction.
This vote is bad.

In fact, everything FoU has said has been unhelpful! And that is because they don't know what they're doing! They don't know what they're doing because they're playing a game from an unknown position! They're playing the game from an unknown position because they're probably town!
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 28, 2023, 10:02:27 pm
Posting to show I exist!
You do exist! You don't seem very interested in finding scum, though.


I was going to shitpost in this game the whole time by copy-pasting AI chat responses, but then I thought better on it.
What would the input for that have looked like?
I don't know I didn't try it. I'm on my phone right now so it would be annoying to respond to this with an AI even if I would have found it funny.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 28, 2023, 10:07:54 pm
The mafia are Fallacy and ToonyMan.
Big words big man, how about...

The mafia are Max and Jim.

Now tell me why we're both wrong.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 28, 2023, 10:14:42 pm
What, Webadict isn't in this game?? I was going to vote him until he fake-claimed cop.

I think I can read a1s well so let's go there. What color are you feeling?
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: zemaj on March 28, 2023, 10:29:43 pm
<snip>

Do I believe zemaj is town?

Probably, I don't know their experience with the game but they look like town.

<snip>

why, thank you!  I've played at guessing games about goblets potentially partially filled with poisonous potions.  I'm also an avid armchair psychologist.  As for how that works out for me?  ~50/50, tbh...

Oh, and zemaj. He's not scum, I just want to see his reaction.
HEY!  Don't be fake FoSing me!  If you are going to try fingering me without even buying me a drink first you need to mean it!

Are you sure you exist? Maybe you're actually secretly a hydra of Org and Dermonster.
I don't know who either of those two people are so that means I must exist!

you are confused... therefore you are!

The mafia are Fallacy and ToonyMan.

well, I mean, Fallacy is obvi-scum... posting solid game theory and trying to engage in misguided attempts to start meaningful discussion.  How weak of a play can one person make?

Toony otoh, has said he thinks I'm town, which I like, so you are going to have to make a more precise point on that sledgehammer-fine argument to get me to come off my exalted position of having the very best opinion... my own.

***

was waiting for some more salient bits to float to the surface, but I'll just go ahead and leave this here, see what happens with that.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 28, 2023, 11:02:10 pm
I'm going to say zemaj is town. I don't get the impression they're working with someone else in secret.

I think I even have zemaj completely figured out. Which is a good thing.

So...

Town
FoU
zemaj

TBA
Fluffe
Jim
Max
a1s
IronyOwl
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: FallacyofUrist on March 28, 2023, 11:21:27 pm
In fact, everything FoU has said has been unhelpful! And that is because they don't know what they're doing! They don't know what they're doing because they're playing a game from an unknown position! They're playing the game from an unknown position because they're probably town!
I've been playing mafia for like 5 years now

Do you really expect me to know what I'm doing

The mafia are Fallacy and ToonyMan.
Then you're the doctor! zemaj is the cop, Toony and a1s are the mafia

I'm the student, Jim is the master, and fluffe is clueless

It all makes sense in my head.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 28, 2023, 11:42:50 pm
The mafia are Fallacy and ToonyMan.
Then you're the doctor! zemaj is the cop, Toony and a1s are the mafia

I'm the student, Jim is the master, and fluffe is clueless

It all makes sense in my head.
At least one of those is either definitely wrong or definitely right.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: zemaj on March 29, 2023, 12:03:19 am
Oh My...[/sulu]

First day of my first game and one person threatening me with a good time and another who already has me all figured out.  Never thought I'd be so popular...
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 29, 2023, 12:28:04 am
As usual I would like to note that I'm not scum this time.

Hrrrm.

HRMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

aside from the slightly prickly, direct, and timely response to an obvious joke alluding to how there were only two players (well, three, if you count my post, but I really don't know if that would be proper in context) posting in-thread despite the game having been on for >2h at that point?

no reason, really... but thanks for sharing the LAMIST reaction ;D
This is just how I normally act. I appreciate your efforts in using apparent snap reactions to gather information, however.

That's obviously not what you're doing, but I'll treat it like that anyways.

I read this post in passing and it didn't catch my eye and then went to play noita for several hours but now I'm back reading the thread.

What's the insinuation that you're making here?

I was going to shitpost in this game the whole time by copy-pasting AI chat responses, but then I thought better on it.
That sounds like something Jim would do, actually (see his role in my most recent BYOR).

That's advanced shitposting. Definitely something I want to do but also something I am too lazy to do.

JimGroovester

hey wtf i dont even know you man

FallacyOfUrist

Alright, you're okay.

Posting to show I exist!
You do exist! You don't seem very interested in finding scum, though.

My honest to goodness first instinct after reading this was to make commentary about old school Bay 12 Mafia meta, but I'll give you a bit more time to work.

Posting to show I exist!

thumbsupemoji.jpg

Well, I can't argue with that. Do you think I'm mafia?
No clue!

You're leaving a much different impression this game compared to the late game of Wormwood Mafia. In that game you were fucking ready to rumble, but here the feistiness is missing.

The mafia are Fallacy and ToonyMan.

But how!?

early game ToonyMan

Alright, pretty standard early game ToonyMan.

What, Webadict isn't in this game?? I was going to vote him until he fake-claimed cop.

I honestly made the same mistake.

Oh, and zemaj. He's not scum, I just want to see his reaction.
This vote is bad.

In fact, everything FoU has said has been unhelpful! And that is because they don't know what they're doing! They don't know what they're doing because they're playing a game from an unknown position! They're playing the game from an unknown position because they're probably town!
Do I believe FoU is really town this time?

I think I do.

ToonyMan going to bat early for FallacyofUrist.

Inclined to feel like this is town ToonyMan. Maybe in this game I can do what I honestly feel like I should do every game I play with ToonyMan and literally sheep him and let him carry me to victory.



My gut wants to boldly say

that it's Max and Fluffe9911

But I don't have much to point to for that feeling. Need to see a lot more game. Of the players that have posted, ToonyMan feels best. FallacyofUrist and zemaj are okay. Everybody else is sort of middling.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: zemaj on March 29, 2023, 12:30:07 am
Come on, people!  I already made another completely offtopic post! 

Letting one through could be unfortunate, but two in a row is just... careless.


***

we need to speedrun this a bit, so lets go ahead and pull out some D2 tricks:

MY LIST in order from pinging the Scumdar10000TM least to most:

zemaj - a paragon of insight and a marvel of townieness
Toony - several posts with light prods & even reads
IronyOwl - few posts, but one did have a prod attached.
Fallacy - has tried to move conversation, even made a posit or two... trying to be TL?  Sus, but not comdemning
Max - 2 posts, throwing two names with nothing further on first, but making an assertation I can agree with on second... meh, its D1, still...
Jim - lots of posts right at the start, then nothing... went to bed?
Fluffe - posts read much like the name-sake
a1s - no posts
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: zemaj on March 29, 2023, 12:32:48 am
DAMMIT JIM!

now my joke just looks silly... because of what you did... and not because it was silly... ass...
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 29, 2023, 12:39:31 am
Jim - lots of posts right at the start, then nothing... went to bed?

Thedayislessthan24hoursoldletmeplayNoita
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 29, 2023, 12:46:07 am
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: FallacyofUrist on March 29, 2023, 01:27:15 am
aside from the slightly prickly, direct, and timely response to an obvious joke alluding to how there were only two players (well, three, if you count my post, but I really don't know if that would be proper in context) posting in-thread despite the game having been on for >2h at that point?

no reason, really... but thanks for sharing the LAMIST reaction ;D
This is just how I normally act. I appreciate your efforts in using apparent snap reactions to gather information, however.

That's obviously not what you're doing, but I'll treat it like that anyways.

I read this post in passing and it didn't catch my eye and then went to play noita for several hours but now I'm back reading the thread.

What's the insinuation that you're making here?
That he's a new player trying to act stereotypically 'cool' because he doesn't know what else he should be doing, yet.

Every game is a learning game.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - (Short, Beginner Friendly). Baking roles...
Post by: notquitethere on March 29, 2023, 02:12:34 am
Vote Count
- Toonyman
- Jim Groovester
- MaximumSpin
- FallacyofUrist - [1]  Jim Groovester
- Fluffe9911
- a1s - [2] Toony, Zemaj
- Zemaj - [1] FallacyofUrist
- Irony Owl
- No Elimination

~64 hours remaining
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: a1s on March 29, 2023, 02:42:05 am
How does a1s already have 2 votes when they are obviously town?
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: a1s on March 29, 2023, 02:44:23 am
In the interest of Max not getting a stroke I will only do the color manipulation once. But the seeds have already been planted!
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: a1s on March 29, 2023, 02:50:47 am
I don't have all that much time for this game (I'm in the process of slowly moving flats) so looking for a good shepherd (submit you candidature now!)
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 29, 2023, 06:06:31 am
In the interest of Max not getting a stroke I will only do the color manipulation once. But the seeds have already been planted!
Wait, why would I care? I just don't believe it works, but it doesn't bother me at all.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: a1s on March 29, 2023, 06:24:12 am
So you don't care if a1s's town? Is it perhaps because you are a scum?
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 29, 2023, 06:26:23 am
So you don't care if a1s's town? Is it perhaps because you are a scum?
Surely, if I were scum, it would mean that I DID care if you are town, because I would need to kill you.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: a1s on March 29, 2023, 06:47:51 am
So you don't care if a1s's town? Is it perhaps because you are a scum?
Surely, if I were scum, it would mean that I DID care if you are town, because I would need to kill you.
Yes, but if you were scum you would already know who is town.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: webadict on March 29, 2023, 09:14:59 am
Yes, but if you were scum you would already know who is town.
Not a player nor the mod, but don't use the red text unless you're voting.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Fluffe9911 on March 29, 2023, 10:00:47 am
Quote from: Jim Groovester
You're leaving a much different impression this game compared to the late game of Wormwood Mafia. In that game you were fucking ready to rumble, but here the feistiness is missing.
Early game Fluffe does not equal late game Fluffe lol.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 29, 2023, 03:08:52 pm
I don't have all that much time for this game (I'm in the process of slowly moving flats) so looking for a good shepherd (submit you candidature now!)
What makes a good shepherd?
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 29, 2023, 04:29:13 pm
Man, what a high activity game.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - (Short, Beginner Friendly). Baking roles...
Post by: notquitethere on March 29, 2023, 05:32:43 pm
One third of D1 has passed.

Vote Count
- Toonyman
- Jim Groovester
- MaximumSpin
- FallacyofUrist - [1]  Jim Groovester
- Fluffe9911
- a1s - [2] Toony, Zemaj
- Zemaj - [1] FallacyofUrist
- Irony Owl
- No Elimination

Not voting: MaximumSpin, Fluffe9911, a1s , Irony Owl

~48 hours remaining
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 29, 2023, 05:35:25 pm
I've been pretty sick today.

I feel like just saying it's Fluffe and Max, with IronyOwl as a third choice. This is obviously a huge blowout if Jim is tricking me, but...is he?

a1s seems like town, does anybody want to discuss why?

How many people believe town!Fluffe would behave like this on D1? We only have one game as reference and it's true the difference between their D1 and later days was distinct, but we don't have that time here.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: FallacyofUrist on March 29, 2023, 06:16:34 pm
Fluffe and Owl need to do things. Neutral. Maybe a little less so on Fluffe, but I'm happy to change that once he steps into the playing field fully.

zemaj is inexperienced but feels like he's actually trying, in a you know, TricMagic like fashion. If it works it works. Town.

ToonyMan be engaging with the game, though I'm not sure if he's right about a1s.

a1s is oddly playful this time around.

I almost forgot Max exists. Not a good sign. Of course he could just be busy. Brain doesn't want to see him as scum yet.

Jim is cruelly teasing. Definitely town.

Call me criminal but it could be a1s and Fluffe. Genuinely.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 29, 2023, 07:39:05 pm
I think if a1s was town they'd post exactly like they did here.

Fluffe and IronyOwl being together would be...odd.

Is it Max and IronyOwl then? That's a direction I'm heading in, maybe I'll feel better tomorrow.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 29, 2023, 07:41:55 pm
Jim is cruelly teasing. Definitely town.
This is an incredibly strong read when I'm not even that confident, and I'm the one with Jimdar.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: IronyOwl on March 29, 2023, 08:15:39 pm
Posting to show I exist!
You do exist! You don't seem very interested in finding scum, though.

My honest to goodness first instinct after reading this was to make commentary about old school Bay 12 Mafia meta, but I'll give you a bit more time to work.
Am I outdated, washed up, out of touch, not bussin with the no-cap mafia style everyone's all about these days?

I see we're still going with the tried and true RVS strategy of lol don't bother, so at least that's familiar.

Inclined to feel like this is town ToonyMan. Maybe in this game I can do what I honestly feel like I should do every game I play with ToonyMan and literally sheep him and let him carry me to victory.
What do you think town's best option would be for dealing with the scenario of both you and Toony being scum?


a1s seems like town, does anybody want to discuss why?
Yes. He felt town to me when I was underestimating the effects of nightkills on scum strategy, but now the feeling's evaporated. What's your read?

How many people believe town!Fluffe would behave like this on D1? We only have one game as reference and it's true the difference between their D1 and later days was distinct, but we don't have that time here.
Not familiar with him, but it reads like standard vapid wait-for-something-to-happen RVS play to me. I would blind guess he'd be quieter or more aggressive as scum, rather than energetically useless.


MaximumSpin, who do you feel like killing right now?
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 29, 2023, 08:27:18 pm
I wish I were the kind of sulky loser who could answer "myself", but I'm just more of an "everyone" kind of guy. Well, just like it says in my personal text.

ToonyMan, you are not doing a very good job today.

Ehhhhh, I think it's Jamez. I mean Zemaj.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Fluffe9911 on March 29, 2023, 09:20:36 pm
Fluffe and IronyOwl being together would be...odd.
Alrighty since people want me to actually do more things on the first day than just meme around I guess ill bite why would me and Irony be odd?

Also @Fallacy why ya seem so confident it aint Zemaj? Ya even said he was def town even before he posted anything lol.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: zemaj on March 29, 2023, 10:12:18 pm
Sorry I'm late... what did I mis-  oh, still on p4, so not much.  We do only have 3 days total to figure this, correct?


That he's a new player trying to act stereotypically 'cool' because he doesn't know what else he should be doing, yet.

Every game is a learning game.
zemaj is inexperienced but feels like he's actually trying, in a you know, TricMagic like fashion. If it works it works. Town.


I'm starting to get the impression someone doesn't much care for my meta...


Fluffe and Owl need to do things. Neutral. Maybe a little less so on Fluffe, but I'm happy to change that once he steps into the playing field fully.

zemaj is inexperienced but feels like he's actually trying, in a you know, TricMagic like fashion. If it works it works. Town.

ToonyMan be engaging with the game, though I'm not sure if he's right about a1s.

a1s is oddly playful this time around.

I almost forgot Max exists. Not a good sign. Of course he could just be busy. Brain doesn't want to see him as scum yet.

Jim is cruelly teasing. Definitely town.

Call me criminal but it could be a1s and Fluffe. Genuinely.


I actually like the posts a1s' finally did make... not exactly helpful in the surest sense of the word, but they definitely got a rise out of Max, and promoted some discussion.  It's thin to be sure, but it is something.


Posting to show I exist!
You do exist! You don't seem very interested in finding scum, though.

My honest to goodness first instinct after reading this was to make commentary about old school Bay 12 Mafia meta, but I'll give you a bit more time to work.
Am I outdated, washed up, out of touch, not bussin with the no-cap mafia style everyone's all about these days?

I see we're still going with the tried and true RVS strategy of lol don't bother, so at least that's familiar.

Based

I wish I were the kind of sulky loser who could answer "myself", but I'm just more of an "everyone" kind of guy. Well, just like it says in my personal text.

ToonyMan, you are not doing a very good job today.

Ehhhhh, I think it's Jamez. I mean Zemaj.

Yeah, fuck that guy.  I'm pretty sure he misspelled his username, too...
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: FallacyofUrist on March 29, 2023, 10:35:44 pm
Also @Fallacy why ya seem so confident it aint Zemaj? Ya even said he was def town even before he posted anything lol.

I've never seen him before, but this isn't really a meta read. It just looks like he's playing too aggressively to be scum. There's no hesitation at all.

His sense of humor might not be salvageable, though.



Jim is cruelly teasing. Definitely town.
This is an incredibly strong read when I'm not even that confident, and I'm the one with Jimdar.

I don't use definitely to actually mean definitely, I use definitely to mean 'somewhat confident'.

Jim's meanness and playful degradation are more detached when he's scum.



Ehhhhh, I think it's Jamez. I mean Zemaj.
Why is that?
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 30, 2023, 01:12:52 am
we need to speedrun this a bit, so lets go ahead and pull out some D2 tricks:

MY LIST in order from pinging the Scumdar10000TM least to most:

zemaj - a paragon of insight and a marvel of townieness
Toony - several posts with light prods & even reads
IronyOwl - few posts, but one did have a prod attached.
Fallacy - has tried to move conversation, even made a posit or two... trying to be TL?  Sus, but not comdemning
Max - 2 posts, throwing two names with nothing further on first, but making an assertation I can agree with on second... meh, its D1, still...
Jim - lots of posts right at the start, then nothing... went to bed?
Fluffe - posts read much like the name-sake
a1s - no posts

I like that zemaj made a reads list, but the reads themselves are kind of unsatisfying. There's a lot of summary and not a lot of evaluation and judgment. If the list weren't ranked I would have no idea who he actually suspected.

post

Is your list of suspects today the same as it was yesterday?

Yes, but if you were scum you would already know who is town.
Not a player nor the mod, but don't use the red text unless you're voting.

This player is obviously scum.

Quote from: Jim Groovester
You're leaving a much different impression this game compared to the late game of Wormwood Mafia. In that game you were fucking ready to rumble, but here the feistiness is missing.
Early game Fluffe does not equal late game Fluffe lol.

But Fluffe9911,

we only have early game.

So you better turn yourself into late game Fluffe9911 pretty damn quick.

I mean, people,

we need to figure out the game, like, now. The lack of fire I see is going to guarantee a town loss.

I don't have all that much time for this game (I'm in the process of slowly moving flats) so looking for a good shepherd (submit you candidature now!)

I know I said I should sheep ToonyMan but reading this is really unsatisfying.

I think if a1s was town they'd post exactly like they did here.

This is

*siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh*

probably true.

reads

Not that I agree with all of these reads but this feels like a sane list for FallacyofUrist to have. FallacyofUrist also makes terribly transparent agenda-driven decisions as scum and I'm not seeing that here, so he's either leveled up significantly or he's probably town.

I'm going to keep my vote on FallacyofUrist though because voting is irrelevant until the deadline anyway.

Am I outdated, washed up, out of touch, not bussin with the no-cap mafia style everyone's all about these days?

Yes.

Happy to have you.

I see we're still going with the tried and true RVS strategy of lol don't bother, so at least that's familiar.

The true gameplay evolution regarding the random vote stage isn't that it sucks and that we should try to be productive and useful instead, but that having fun and shitposting is informative and gameplay relevant.

Inclined to feel like this is town ToonyMan. Maybe in this game I can do what I honestly feel like I should do every game I play with ToonyMan and literally sheep him and let him carry me to victory.
What do you think town's best option would be for dealing with the scenario of both you and Toony being scum?

I mean if ToonyMan is scum then town is pretty well fucked. My scum game is terrible so it's not as bad for the town if I'm scum. I don't really see a scenario where town wins if it's ToonyMan, since I doubt enough town ever agree to rank him high enough on their POE by the end of Day 1 for him to be eliminated.

post

I recognize the old school effort.

What's your feeling on who you want to lynch and in what order?

I wish I were the kind of sulky loser who could answer "myself", but I'm just more of an "everyone" kind of guy.

Man, look at Mr. Sunshine and Rainbows here.

Looks like somebody's got a case of the Mon Tues Wednesdays.

Ehhhhh, I think it's Jamez. I mean Zemaj.
But how!?



So, to reiterate, we kind of need to figure out the game, which is a pretty tall order, because the end of Day 1 is approaching pretty quickly and we need to have it all figured out by then. So, chilling out and not really doing anything isn't going to cut it.

If the day ended now I think my POE list would look like:

Maximum Spin
Flufffe9911
Irony Owl
zemaj
a1s
FallacyofUrist
ToonyMan
Jim Groovester

ToonyMan feels pretty good. FallacyofUrist also feels good. a1s' unbelievably low effort play somehow makes him more likely to be town than not. zemaj and Irony Owl are okay but could be a lot better. Fluffe9911 hasn't really done anything. Maximum Spin has boldly voted people but also hasn't really done anything.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: a1s on March 30, 2023, 02:27:25 am
I like Maximum Spin for this, but historically my guesses are less than accurate....
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 30, 2023, 04:28:00 am
Look, Jamez iz all over the place here. Loud but insubstantial with a forzed *~*HILARIOUS*~* pretenze that makes it eazy to keep making noize without saying anything that might incriminate.

In fact, I understand why Fallacy thinks he's town because he's acting like scum Fallacy acts when he's trying to act like he thinks town would act.

If he gets it together and starts being useful, then I'll recalibrate, but right now it looks more like he's trying to audition for a one-man show on basic cable.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - (Short, Beginner Friendly). Baking roles...
Post by: notquitethere on March 30, 2023, 07:20:06 am
Vote Count
- Toonyman
- Jim Groovester
- MaximumSpin - [2] Irony Owl, a1s
- FallacyofUrist - [1]  Jim Groovester
- Fluffe9911
- a1s - [3] Toony, Zemaj, FallacyofUrist
- Zemaj - [1] MaximumSpin
- Irony Owl
- No Elimination

Not voting: Fluffe9911,

~34 hours remaining
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2023, 10:22:59 am
I still feel like crap.

a1s seems like town, does anybody want to discuss why?
Yes. He felt town to me when I was underestimating the effects of nightkills on scum strategy, but now the feeling's evaporated. What's your read?

How many people believe town!Fluffe would behave like this on D1? We only have one game as reference and it's true the difference between their D1 and later days was distinct, but we don't have that time here.
Not familiar with him, but it reads like standard vapid wait-for-something-to-happen RVS play to me. I would blind guess he'd be quieter or more aggressive as scum, rather than energetically useless.
I don't understand what you mean about a1s, but I think they're probably town. I don't think they post colors again and also say they're going to blindly sheep a player. I feel like mafia want to prop each other up as the best looking players because they should win if at least one mafia is at the bottom of everyone's list.

Your opinion about Fluffe looks honest to me.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2023, 10:29:39 am
ToonyMan, you are not doing a very good job today.

Ehhhhh, I think it's Jamez. I mean Zemaj.
What am I doing wrong?

Why zemaj? What about me and FoU?

I feel like you aren't really paranoid about Jim at all when he has you first on his kill list, with a1s joining as well. Is Jim coming from a good place?
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2023, 10:32:57 am
Fluffe and IronyOwl being together would be...odd.
Alrighty since people want me to actually do more things on the first day than just meme around I guess ill bite why would me and Irony be odd?
Irony threw shade on you in their first post. I don't believe mafia want to hurt their reputation in a game like this, because looking good really matters when we can't change our opinions after this day is over and robots take over our minds.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2023, 10:40:23 am
Look, Jamez iz all over the place here. Loud but insubstantial with a forzed *~*HILARIOUS*~* pretenze that makes it eazy to keep making noize without saying anything that might incriminate.

In fact, I understand why Fallacy thinks he's town because he's acting like scum Fallacy acts when he's trying to act like he thinks town would act.

If he gets it together and starts being useful, then I'll recalibrate, but right now it looks more like he's trying to audition for a one-man show on basic cable.
I don't really agree. If zemaj is acting like a one-man show it's working: they don't look like scum to me. I think your accusation feels more like a personal grudge against their playstyle than actually suspecting them of being scum.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2023, 10:43:30 am
@Jim post:

I don't think Jim is scum unless it's with FoU or a1s.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 30, 2023, 10:55:52 am
Why zemaj? What about me and FoU?
Am I not allowed to make jokes anymore? Someone did this to me last time I was town, too. I was just joking about the fact that you immediately backed him up. It was basically an excuse for an opening post to say, hey, I'm here now.

Why would I be paranoid about Jim?

What you're doing wrong is that all your teams have me in them.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2023, 11:01:17 am
Do we submit lists after the D1 flip happens? I assume so.

Max, I want to hear your opinion about Jim.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: notquitethere on March 30, 2023, 11:03:40 am
Do we submit lists after the D1 flip happens? I assume so.
Correct.

D1 happens as normal, if someone is eliminated then there is a flip. Then players submit their lists based on their understanding of the game at that point. Then the rest of the game is automated based on the lists.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 30, 2023, 11:07:19 am
Max, I want to hear your opinion about Jim.
I rate him at medium-high. I trust him less than some, but more than others. I don't really think he's scum.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2023, 11:32:08 am
Max, I want to hear your opinion about Jim.
I rate him at medium-high. I trust him less than some, but more than others. I don't really think he's scum.
What sounds better: zemaj and Fluffe OR zemaj and IronyOwl?
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 30, 2023, 11:39:49 am
What sounds better: zemaj and Fluffe OR zemaj and IronyOwl?
Ironyowl, I think.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 30, 2023, 12:05:08 pm
I really wish people would share their eliminations lists. Some level of coordination is going to be required to pull this off, I think.

I still feel like crap.

Feel better, ToonyMan.

Look, Jamez iz all over the place here. Loud but insubstantial with a forzed *~*HILARIOUS*~* pretenze that makes it eazy to keep making noize without saying anything that might incriminate.

In fact, I understand why Fallacy thinks he's town because he's acting like scum Fallacy acts when he's trying to act like he thinks town would act.

If he gets it together and starts being useful, then I'll recalibrate, but right now it looks more like he's trying to audition for a one-man show on basic cable.

I get where you're coming from (and not to totally sheep ToonyMan's opinions) but I would more readily attribute it to a style clash rather than any intentional malice on his part.

I really do wish there was more substance to his posts though. Not the only one I feel that way about though.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: zemaj on March 30, 2023, 01:08:50 pm
we need to speedrun this a bit, so lets go ahead and pull out some D2 tricks:

MY LIST in order from pinging the Scumdar10000TM least to most:

zemaj - a paragon of insight and a marvel of townieness
Toony - several posts with light prods & even reads
IronyOwl - few posts, but one did have a prod attached.
Fallacy - has tried to move conversation, even made a posit or two... trying to be TL?  Sus, but not comdemning
Max - 2 posts, throwing two names with nothing further on first, but making an assertation I can agree with on second... meh, its D1, still...
Jim - lots of posts right at the start, then nothing... went to bed?
Fluffe - posts read much like the name-sake
a1s - no posts

I like that zemaj made a reads list, but the reads themselves are kind of unsatisfying. There's a lot of summary and not a lot of evaluation and judgment. If the list weren't ranked I would have no idea who he actually suspected.

post

Is your list of suspects today the same as it was yesterday?

Yes.  I am definitely working with the exact same list of players.  My reads on them, however, shift with every post.  On occasion, within the same post.  Allow me to elaborate:

<snip>
I mean if ToonyMan is scum then town is pretty well fucked. My scum game is terrible so it's not as bad for the town if I'm scum. I don't really see a scenario where town wins if it's ToonyMan, since I doubt enough town ever agree to rank him high enough on their POE by the end of Day 1 for him to be eliminated.
<snip>

this bit...

<snip>
If the day ended now I think my POE list would look like:

Maximum Spin
Flufffe9911
Irony Owl
zemaj
a1s
FallacyofUrist
ToonyMan
Jim Groovester

ToonyMan feels pretty good. FallacyofUrist also feels good. a1s' unbelievably low effort play somehow makes him more likely to be town than not. zemaj and Irony Owl are okay but could be a lot better. Fluffe9911 hasn't really done anything. Maximum Spin has boldly voted people but also hasn't really done anything.

... jars in my mind with this bit.  While both may be true, shouldn't some of that suspicion bleed into your POE?  You have the person you say are most dangerous as scum directly above yourself.  I mean, it happens I agree with all of it, so I'm wondering why you aren't more suspicious for that, as I am.


Look, Jamez iz all over the place here. Loud but insubstantial with a forzed *~*HILARIOUS*~* pretenze that makes it eazy to keep making noize without saying anything that might incriminate.

In fact, I understand why Fallacy thinks he's town because he's acting like scum Fallacy acts when he's trying to act like he thinks town would act.

If he gets it together and starts being useful, then I'll recalibrate, but right now it looks more like he's trying to audition for a one-man show on basic cable.

Well that's, like, your opinion, man.

Look, Jamez iz all over the place here. Loud but insubstantial with a forzed *~*HILARIOUS*~* pretenze that makes it eazy to keep making noize without saying anything that might incriminate.

In fact, I understand why Fallacy thinks he's town because he's acting like scum Fallacy acts when he's trying to act like he thinks town would act.

If he gets it together and starts being useful, then I'll recalibrate, but right now it looks more like he's trying to audition for a one-man show on basic cable.
I don't really agree. If zemaj is acting like a one-man show it's working: they don't look like scum to me. I think your accusation feels more like a personal grudge against their playstyle than actually suspecting them of being scum.

just pointing out that, if so, it is totally valid.  I get my humor and meta aren't to everyone's preference, and RVS can be expression of that.  It was rather late for RVS, but this game has been oddly slow for the nature of the setup, imo.

I really do wish there was more substance to his posts though. Not the only one I feel that way about though.

Feelings mutual, though your last few have been much better.

***

As for a POE with reads... well POE anyway, lack of substantive posting by some players make it much more difficult to get a read, which usually defaults to scummy for me:

a1s - few posts and those lack content, eliminating lurkers is usually good D1, and I think this setup favors that ploy by scum... if you can get everyone to forget about you, or even just read you neutral enough, the average daily vote could end up narrowly missing you far into the progression.
Fluffe - same as a1s, but did eventually post something meaningful when pressed, so slightly less
Maximum Spin - argument is pretty much the same as both the above, and Max has done more contributing when pressed, so he gets a lesser spot.

The above players are basically interchangeable.  I'd swap a vote to any of them without much argument, at least one is scum, fairly confident of this.

Irony Owl - actual posts with actual content.  More would be better, but perfect world and all...  Overall, null.
Jim Groovester - quality rises with most posts and gut feeling says less likely scum.
ToonyMan - Mr Conversation starter is helpful.  It's enough to make me suspicious, but if Toony is scum, we are hosed.  He's too much all over this, and posts are good.  If I had proof he was scum, I'm not sure I could get anyone to believe it... hell, I'm not sure I would believe it.
FallacyofUrist - differences of playstyle aside, I've got good feeling here.  Basically the same slot as Toony, without the apprehension.
zemaj - just using this space to comment on how weird it is that people include themselves in their reads.  Self-vote is pretty much the lowest form of AtE.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: zemaj on March 30, 2023, 01:47:38 pm
grr... formatting fail.  Should have read more like:
As for a POE with reads... well POE anyway, lack of substantive posting by some players make it much more difficult to get a read, which usually defaults to scummy for me:

a1s - few posts and those lack content, eliminating lurkers is usually good D1, and I think this setup favors that ploy by scum... if you can get everyone to forget about you, or even just read you neutral enough, the average daily vote could end up narrowly missing you far into the progression.
Fluffe - same as a1s, but did eventually post something meaningful when pressed, so slightly less
Maximum Spin - argument is pretty much the same as both the above, and Max has done more contributing when pressed, so he gets a lesser spot.

The above players are basically interchangeable.  I'd swap a vote to any of them without much argument, at least one is scum, fairly confident of this.

Irony Owl - actual posts with actual content.  More would be better, but perfect world and all...  Overall, null.
Jim Groovester - quality rises with most posts and gut feeling says less likely scum.

These two I'm less inclined to Eliminate.  Wouldn't be surprised if one or the other was scum, but the other almost certainly isn't.  Still, to avoid a no-elimination, I'd hop on a train for either.

ToonyMan - Mr Conversation starter is helpful.  It's enough to make me suspicious, but if Toony is scum, we are hosed.  He's too much all over this, and posts are good.  If I had proof he was scum, I'm not sure I could get anyone to believe it... hell, I'm not sure I would believe it.
FallacyofUrist - differences of playstyle aside, I've got good feeling here.  Basically the same slot as Toony, without the apprehension.
zemaj - just using this space to comment on how weird it is that people include themselves in their reads.  Self-vote is pretty much the lowest form of AtE.

to elaborate: 

Every scumteam I can think of only makes sense with one from first group, and one from second.  As stated, I think it would be a better than average ploy by scum to lurk in this abbreviated setup.  Thus one of group1.  Group2 almost certainly has the other.  Its a terrible ploy to lurk usually and any experienced players would know this and avoid it just out of habit. 
I'm leaning toward a a1s/Fluffe + Irony Owl scumteam.  Max + Jim doesn't feel right for some reason I'm having difficult articulating, and Max + Irony Owl is similarly unsatisfactory.  This may be an expression of my avoidance to OMGUS Max, but I actually have no problem with a scumteam entirely from group1, outside of the problem of both scum being in the lurker camp, which seems improbable.  a1s/Fluffe + Jim is possible, but those interactions seem less passive than I tend to think of scum team interactions in-thread.

I'd be shocked if either Fallacy or Toony were scum at this point, in case I haven't made that clear.  Feel free to change my mind, though.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2023, 04:01:26 pm
This may be an expression of my avoidance to OMGUS Max, but I actually have no problem with a scumteam entirely from group1, outside of the problem of both scum being in the lurker camp, which seems improbable.
It's possible but I don't think it's likely they win in this case.

I don't think anybody could convince me to vote zemaj at this point, the only thing they could do more would have been to color code their reads. I'm worried this is like Magma Mater in Matrix6 or Nakeen in FBYOR5 where I get tricked by scum, but if they're deciding to put in the effort and thought I just don't see them faking their suspicions here.

If zemaj is scum I want to say it's most likely with FoU, but I've been supportive of FoU for once. It actually annoys me that other players have shown the same trustworthiness of FoU in this game when normally the opposite is true. Are players seeing the same thing I'm seeing, or is always scum FoU getting a lucky chance? I still believe in the former.

I'm not really happy about how Fluffe or a1s are playing today, but I'm more convinced of a1s being town here based on my previous game experience. I also have a harder time putting a1s with someone compared to Fluffe.

My list right now would be something like:

Irony
Max
Fluffe
FoU
zemaj
Jim
a1s

However, that's without the knowledge of any player's alignment.

I'm not completely unconvinced of FoU/zemaj or FoU/Jim being a thing, due to me questioning liking FoU for once.

Am I rating a1s too highly? I think it makes Jim look better, unless they're with FoU.

If neither Max or Irony are mafia I'm very lost. It's also possible they're both mafia, but I don't find that too likely because of their distancing. If Irony is mafia I'm having a hard time seeing a convincing partner honestly. Maybe there's a better first vote.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2023, 04:16:13 pm
If IronyOwl is town:
Max - top mafia pick
Fluffe - second most likely pick
FoU - same tier as Jim honestly
Jim - same as FoU
zemaj - not feeling it, maybe with FoU
a1s - not feeling it

If it's not Max/Fluffe then we probably lose.

If IronyOwl is mafia:
zemaj - I guess, hard to see a connection
Max - still seems possible? some distancing going on, not convincing
Fluffe - I don't think Irony and Fluffe are both scum, don't really see anything else though
FoU - I don't know, hard to see a connection
a1s - not really seeing as scum, seems more likely though
Jim - really hard to see a connection

I look at zemaj more seriously and change the order to reflect this. I'm not as convinced by this list, but I guess with one mafia down it should be easier.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Fluffe9911 on March 30, 2023, 04:22:18 pm
Also @Fallacy why ya seem so confident it aint Zemaj? Ya even said he was def town even before he posted anything lol.

I've never seen him before, but this isn't really a meta read. It just looks like he's playing too aggressively to be scum. There's no hesitation at all.

His sense of humor might not be salvageable, though.
Aint playing too aggressively normally a scum sign though?
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: IronyOwl on March 30, 2023, 05:11:08 pm
I hope everyone feels like they're 2/3rds of the way to lynching someone to get information on how to lynch everyone else!


I see we're still going with the tried and true RVS strategy of lol don't bother, so at least that's familiar.

The true gameplay evolution regarding the random vote stage isn't that it sucks and that we should try to be productive and useful instead, but that having fun and shitposting is informative and gameplay relevant.
Perhaps there is wisdom in these new ways after all.

I mean if ToonyMan is scum then town is pretty well fucked. My scum game is terrible so it's not as bad for the town if I'm scum. I don't really see a scenario where town wins if it's ToonyMan, since I doubt enough town ever agree to rank him high enough on their POE by the end of Day 1 for him to be eliminated.

What's your feeling on who you want to lynch and in what order?
Toony and Max both scare me, because I don't know how to read either. I'm therefore inclined to murder them first. I feel like I know Max well enough to think he'd approve of this approach.

On the fence about zemaj. I agree with Max's read that he's saying a lot without saying anything, less sure what to make of that.
a1s feels like he's got no time.
Fluffe feels like derpy town or incredibly energetic scum.

You and Toony are both largely the engines of productive content at the moment. Not just in reads and prods and such, but in pointing out obvious structural problems with how we're doing business. You both also seem to have intensified efforts as the day draws to a close, which implies towniness. There are a few things that bug me about each of you, though.

FoU feels town but it weirds me out that everyone seems really convinced that he's town. So I guess he's at the bottom of my list, but I can't help but raise an eyebrow at the golden pass he's getting.

So, to reiterate, we kind of need to figure out the game, which is a pretty tall order, because the end of Day 1 is approaching pretty quickly and we need to have it all figured out by then. So, chilling out and not really doing anything isn't going to cut it.
What do you think of the ramifications of scum knowing everyone's list versus town knowing everyone's list?


Look, Jamez iz all over the place here. Loud but insubstantial with a forzed *~*HILARIOUS*~* pretenze that makes it eazy to keep making noize without saying anything that might incriminate.

In fact, I understand why Fallacy thinks he's town because he's acting like scum Fallacy acts when he's trying to act like he thinks town would act.

If he gets it together and starts being useful, then I'll recalibrate, but right now it looks more like he's trying to audition for a one-man show on basic cable.
How do you rate this in comparison to just lurking?


@Jim post:

I don't think Jim is scum unless it's with FoU or a1s.
Why not?


As for a POE with reads... well POE anyway, lack of substantive posting by some players make it much more difficult to get a read, which usually defaults to scummy for me:
Is your scumlist any different from your playing poorly list?


ToonyMan:
If IronyOwl is town:
Max - top mafia pick
Fluffe - second most likely pick
FoU - same tier as Jim honestly
Jim - same as FoU
zemaj - not feeling it, maybe with FoU
a1s - not feeling it

If it's not Max/Fluffe then we probably lose.

If IronyOwl is mafia:
zemaj - I guess, hard to see a connection
Max - still seems possible? some distancing going on, not convincing
Fluffe - I don't think Irony and Fluffe are both scum, don't really see anything else though
FoU - I don't know, hard to see a connection
a1s - not really seeing as scum, seems more likely though
Jim - really hard to see a connection

I look at zemaj more seriously and change the order to reflect this. I'm not as convinced by this list, but I guess with one mafia down it should be easier.
Why is zemaj first if I'm scum and second to last if I'm not?
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - (Short, Beginner Friendly). Baking roles...
Post by: notquitethere on March 30, 2023, 05:32:24 pm
Two thirds of D1 have passed.

Vote Count
- Toonyman - [1] Irony Owl
- Jim Groovester
- MaximumSpin - [1] a1s
- FallacyofUrist - [1]  Jim Groovester
- Fluffe9911
- a1s - [3] Toony, Zemaj, FallacyofUrist
- Zemaj - [1] MaximumSpin
- Irony Owl
- No Elimination

Not voting: Fluffe9911,

~24 hours remaining
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: zemaj on March 30, 2023, 05:51:07 pm
<scumlist>

Is your scumlist any different from your playing poorly list?

Hmmm... now that is a loaded question, with a subjective qualifier. 

I'll still bite though:  a bit.  Stratified the same, but FoU would be mid with you, Jim would probably be with Toony.  Then bring everyone (and I am not excusing myself from that) down a couple tiers.  Activity has been much lower than I would have expected, and lets face it, not every post is going to be gold, or even lead, so we need some quantity unless we all up the quality post haste.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2023, 05:58:47 pm
@Irony:
I don't think Jim is mafia with Max, Fluffe, you, or zemaj. Mafia!Jim backing up my support of a town!FoU or town!a1s when he could stick with his initial impression of always suspecting FoU or getting a free vote on a1s makes less sense to me. I think a mafia!Jim only agrees with me on these two if he's partners with them. A mafia!Jim could be appealing to my nature and just dismissing their partner to try to win that way I guess. We won't be able to reassess anything which hurts, so I need to be decisive here.

I don't really think zemaj is mafia. I originally also had Max as my next choice regardless of whether you're town or mafia, but decided to give Max a buffer if you're mafia, since he could be reading the game better than me, hence zemaj first since Max suspects zemaj and considers you a possible partner.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: FallacyofUrist on March 30, 2023, 06:50:48 pm
zemaj has managed to impress me, much to my surprise.

Currently, a1s is slated to be executed, and I think we need to strongly justify whoever we execute this day. The only day. It's the execution that will serve as the foundation for everyone's lists (and or sheeps), so we need to put more into it than casual votes.

Aint playing too aggressively normally a scum sign though?
I'd argue the opposite, unless it's unfocused. At least in the bay 12 meta, we see a good few highly aggressive town players. Jim likes that style, and tends to be more reserved when he's scum.

I think the scum have already revealed themselves. We just have to spot them.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: IronyOwl on March 30, 2023, 07:10:03 pm
<scumlist>

Is your scumlist any different from your playing poorly list?

Hmmm... now that is a loaded question, with a subjective qualifier. 
What makes you say it's loaded?

I'll still bite though:  a bit.  Stratified the same, but FoU would be mid with you, Jim would probably be with Toony.  Then bring everyone (and I am not excusing myself from that) down a couple tiers.  Activity has been much lower than I would have expected, and lets face it, not every post is going to be gold, or even lead, so we need some quantity unless we all up the quality post haste.
So you think worse play is directly correlated with likelihood of being scum, with the exception of Jim who's scummier than his play would indicate and FoU who's townier?


@Irony:
I don't think Jim is mafia with Max, Fluffe, you, or zemaj. Mafia!Jim backing up my support of a town!FoU or town!a1s when he could stick with his initial impression of always suspecting FoU or getting a free vote on a1s makes less sense to me. I think a mafia!Jim only agrees with me on these two if he's partners with them. A mafia!Jim could be appealing to my nature and just dismissing their partner to try to win that way I guess. We won't be able to reassess anything which hurts, so I need to be decisive here.

I don't really think zemaj is mafia. I originally also had Max as my next choice regardless of whether you're town or mafia, but decided to give Max a buffer if you're mafia, since he could be reading the game better than me, hence zemaj first since Max suspects zemaj and considers you a possible partner.
Interesting. Any other team-based highlights come to your attention lately?
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 30, 2023, 09:18:49 pm
Irony: I think it's worse than just lurking.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2023, 10:35:42 pm
Interesting. Any other team-based highlights come to your attention lately?
I think Max/Fluffe is the most likely from my POV.

I think zemaj/FoU or zemaj/Jim are most likely if both Max and Fluffe are town. I really don't feel zemaj is mafia which is why I have a hard time considering this.

I think zemaj/Irony is possible if Max is town. I also have a hard time considering this.

I'm willing to vote Max or Irony here. I put Irony at the top of my list to see their reaction, but I'm unsure who is a better vote. I think it's unlikely both are mafia, but still possible. I'm worried about ranking Max too highly if Irony were to flip mafia today though, because it could be a ploy from the position they're in.

I'm not sure who Fluffe would be with if Max is town, so I would likely rank him higher if Max flipped town today.

I don't see a1s with anyone.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 30, 2023, 10:40:48 pm
I don't see a1s with anyone.
Jim is the only person I could see, but I find it less convincing than Jim with FoU or zemaj.

zemaj/FoU seems more likely than zemaj/Jim to me, if I had to pick between the two right now.

Now let me continue dying in the corner.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 30, 2023, 10:50:51 pm
Ah, crap, is this going to be one of those ones where I have to get lynched to get everyone to focus?
I guess, since there is no rest of the game anyway and I have no power, I'm okay with that.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: zemaj on March 30, 2023, 11:42:35 pm
<scumlist>

Is your scumlist any different from your playing poorly list?

Hmmm... now that is a loaded question, with a subjective qualifier. 
What makes you say it's loaded?

... the definition? (https://www.google.com/search?q=loaded+question&rlz=1C1UEAD_enUS1036US1036&oq=loaded+question&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i131i433i512l2j0i512l7.8572j1j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)

I'll still bite though:  a bit.  Stratified the same, but FoU would be mid with you, Jim would probably be with Toony.  Then bring everyone (and I am not excusing myself from that) down a couple tiers.  Activity has been much lower than I would have expected, and lets face it, not every post is going to be gold, or even lead, so we need some quantity unless we all up the quality post haste.
So you think worse play is directly correlated with likelihood of being scum, with the exception of Jim who's scummier than his play would indicate and FoU who's townier?

Did I say that?  Pretty sure you are the only one who said any such thing.  Please learn the difference between what is stated and what you would like to hear.


Ah, crap, is this going to be one of those ones where I have to get lynched to get everyone to focus?
I guess, since there is no rest of the game anyway and I have no power, I'm okay with that.

Well, if that is an offer... I'd be ok with it, too.  Maximum Spin

Humor me and explain why this is a bad idea.  A full paragraph and I'll dance at your wedding.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: IronyOwl on March 31, 2023, 01:49:59 am
Ah, crap, is this going to be one of those ones where I have to get lynched to get everyone to focus?
I guess, since there is no rest of the game anyway and I have no power, I'm okay with that.
Acquiring and posting reads would be more productive for that. I don't think your current townflip would tell me anything.


zemaj:
<scumlist>

Is your scumlist any different from your playing poorly list?

Hmmm... now that is a loaded question, with a subjective qualifier. 
What makes you say it's loaded?

... the definition? (https://www.google.com/search?q=loaded+question&rlz=1C1UEAD_enUS1036US1036&oq=loaded+question&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i131i433i512l2j0i512l7.8572j1j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)
This is profoundly unhelpful. Make it helpful.

I'll still bite though:  a bit.  Stratified the same, but FoU would be mid with you, Jim would probably be with Toony.  Then bring everyone (and I am not excusing myself from that) down a couple tiers.  Activity has been much lower than I would have expected, and lets face it, not every post is going to be gold, or even lead, so we need some quantity unless we all up the quality post haste.
So you think worse play is directly correlated with likelihood of being scum, with the exception of Jim who's scummier than his play would indicate and FoU who's townier?

Did I say that?  Pretty sure you are the only one who said any such thing.  Please learn the difference between what is stated and what you would like to hear.
How does what you said differ from what I said you said?
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: a1s on March 31, 2023, 02:59:11 am
Since I'm going to die in the first day/night anyway, I might as well claim to be The Odd Night Doctor. If not lynched I can promise to save one of you from night-death (if simply by being the Mafia's first target.)

I don't need a read list, because I'm going to sheep Toonyman.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: FallacyofUrist on March 31, 2023, 03:02:28 am
Sigh do we have any counterclaims? Anyone else who claims to be the doctor?
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: FallacyofUrist on March 31, 2023, 03:07:36 am
Alright. Let's put together a proper vote.

Toony.
Jim.
Max Spin.
Fluffe.
a1s.
Zemaj.
IronyOwl.

Players ranked in terms of activity level:
ToonyMan gets 5/5.
Jim gets 4/5.
Max Spin gets 3/5.
Fluffe gets 1/5.
a1s gets 2/5.
Zemaj gets 4/5.
IronyOwl gets 3/5.

In terms of engagement level:
ToonyMan gets 4/5.
Jim gets 5/5.
Max Spin gets 2/5.
Fluffe gets 1/5.
a1s gets 3/5.
Zemaj gets 4/5.
IronyOwl gets 4/5.

In terms of gutfeel:
ToonyMan gets 3/5.
Jim gets 5/5.
Max Spin gets 2/5.
Fluffe gets 3/5.
a1s gets 1/5.
Zemaj gets 5/5.
IronyOwl gets 2/5.

So to conclude. The scumteam is Maximum Spin and IronyOwl.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 31, 2023, 03:30:47 am
Well I can't sleep because I'm sick as fuck let's read Auto Mafia...

a1s "I'm the doctor."

...

YOU DIDN'T NEED TO CLAIM THAT

You weren't under pressure to do so!

Maybe some players suspected you, and honestly I think players that do could possibly be bad dudes. I'm glad this reinforces my top townread of you as a player. I think you're completely obviously town at this point.

ANyWAY

Maybe I can find something to say because I don't think I'm falling asleep. tonight.

The good news is that mafia have to kill a1s now, which sucks for them haha!!
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 31, 2023, 03:32:32 am
Sigh do we have any counterclaims? Anyone else who claims to be the doctor?
This isn't even a question. If someone counter claims I shit gold and sell it on eBay.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 31, 2023, 03:36:51 am
So to conclude. The scumteam is Maximum Spin and IronyOwl.
What even is this.

Based on your numbers why isn't Fluffe in here? You literally gave them the lowest score of 1 1 3.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - (Short, Beginner Friendly). Baking roles...
Post by: a1s on March 31, 2023, 03:38:38 am
YOU DIDN'T NEED TO CLAIM THAT
Ahem:
Vote Count
- a1s - [3] Toony, Zemaj, FallacyofUrist
~24 hours remaining
I am so under the hammer (even though there are no hammers) you'd think I was an anvil.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: a1s on March 31, 2023, 03:39:46 am
Either you kill me, or they do- and I'd rather take of of the bastards with me.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: a1s on March 31, 2023, 03:40:49 am
Based on your numbers why isn't Fluffe in here? You literally gave them the lowest score of 1 1 3.
That's why we call 'em Fallacy.  :P
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 31, 2023, 03:42:48 am
It's zemaj and FoU isn't it and I'm just incredibly untrustful of Max and Irony.

I liked FoU saying they got town for once though.

And I like zemaj actually giving their feelings on who they suspect, even with having group pairings of players.

Fluffe feels bad.

YOU DIDN'T NEED TO CLAIM THAT
Ahem:
Vote Count
- a1s - [3] Toony, Zemaj, FallacyofUrist
~24 hours remaining
I am so under the hammer (even though there are no hammers) you'd think I was an anvil.
WHO CARES ABOUT THE VOTES
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: a1s on March 31, 2023, 03:47:59 am
WHO CARES ABOUT THE VOTES
What, are you Trump now?
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 31, 2023, 03:49:18 am
It's zemaj and FoU isn't it and I'm just incredibly untrustful of Max and Irony.
I don't know about them but it's really not me, bro.

Jeez, is the game ending today already? It barely feels like it's been three days. I told you this gimmick probably wasn't going to work!

Ehhh, technically, we should probably lynch ToonyMan today because, if he's evil, that's the only way we win, but if he's good we'll probably be able to make it work.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 31, 2023, 03:54:39 am
Either you kill me, or they do- and I'd rather take of of the bastards with me.
I don't think you were ever going to be night killed.

It's zemaj and FoU isn't it and I'm just incredibly untrustful of Max and Irony.
I don't know about them but it's really not me, bro.

Jeez, is the game ending today already? It barely feels like it's been three days. I told you this gimmick probably wasn't going to work!

Ehhh, technically, we should probably lynch ToonyMan today because, if he's evil, that's the only way we win, but if he's good we'll probably be able to make it work.
I wouldn't be able to last this game if it didn't end today.

You could convince me by

expressing

Your feelings Max
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: a1s on March 31, 2023, 03:56:42 am
Either you kill me, or they do- and I'd rather take of of the bastards with me.
I don't think you were ever going to be night killed.
Duh. I was going to be lynched. Can't kill what's already dead  :P
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 31, 2023, 03:59:38 am
This is how I'm going to die, arguing with someone on the internet.

zemaj
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: FallacyofUrist on March 31, 2023, 08:31:28 am
Do you even, want to vote zemaj? Just checking.

You seem like such a deeply conflicted voter here, Toony. Toony, Toony, Toonyman

What do you really want to do?
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: FallacyofUrist on March 31, 2023, 08:33:31 am
Or are you just pretending at frustration and 'oh I have to do this now don't I' after you and a1s coordinated a claim gambit in your scumchat, knowing the day ends soon enough people won't be able to properly process a counterclaim?

That's on the table too.

It's exactly the sort of audacity I'd see cooked up to get a bandwagon to swerve (but like, you didn't have to claim, it was going to swerve anywayssss)
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: FallacyofUrist on March 31, 2023, 08:36:38 am
What even is this.

Based on your numbers why isn't Fluffe in here? You literally gave them the lowest score of 1 1 3.
Sigh, because Fluffe is newless, youless, and clueless.

The vibe is less 'hide hide hide' and more 'new player who doesn't know what to do at all'

Though if he is scum and is hiding behind his newness I'm gonna be a touch irritated when the game ends. Specially since he would have a scum partner to mentor him.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 31, 2023, 09:06:29 am
You could convince me by

expressing

Your feelings Max
That's one option.

OR.

I could just keep doing nothing.

Look, I don't really have any strong feelings one way or the other. Everybody's read lists looks weak to me and I don't think anyone's trying very hard. When nobody's trying very hard, how am I supposed to interpret anything?
The only thing I can really say is that a1s PROBABLY wouldn't be bold/dumb enough to claim doctor for no good reason as scum. So that's one "town". Sorry, I mean "town".
I'm neutral on Fallacy because everything he says sounds dumb, which is NAI.
I think you're probably town since you seem hopelessly despondent, which is consistent with your town meta. I think you know that though, and sometimes it means you just got a really sucky partner.
Fluffe seems dead, would lynch in any normal game.
I forgot who else was in the game and had to scroll down to look for a list.
Right, Jim, zemaj, IronyOwl. I like IronyOwl. Just, I mean, personally. But nothing he's said in this game has registered at all for me. I guess that's bad. He was right when he said I would approve of killing the people you can't read, though. That's not a contradiction to what I just said; I had to go back and look to remember it. Still, when I actually read what he writes I have to begrudgingly rate him town.
Jim would rather be playing Noita, as usual. I still don't really think he's scum. I feel like as scum he either tries harder OR totally coasts as a gambit like in KJJT, not in the middle. Remembering games where I was scum always reminds me that you are all completely justified in never trusting me, but I still don't like it.
Zemaj did that thing where he said something really dumb to me directly and I just automatically stopped caring, so whatever, non-entity. It's a little hard to describe what I think of his play because the way I presented it before was an intentional oversimplification, but I really think it's bad. I also, separately, think it's dumb, making it bad and dumb. That doesn't mean I have a grudge against it, though. I played it up as annoying for the sake of showing how bad it is but I actually find it mildly funny in a pompous sort of way, like the "a1s is town" thing.

Oh, now Fallacy is being pompous too. It's less funny and more dumb. Lay off the amphetamines a little, okay? Those things will kill you.
No, I get it, sometimes you wake up a little manic and post a bunch of times before you finish thinking, but the point I actually want to make is that your reliance on emotion and your constant "could YOU be the killer trying to confuse me, Fallacy, the hero of mafia, personally?!" paranoia is extremely counterproductive. This is also how I got you lynched pretty much every time you were town. You need to control your worst instincts. Yes, this is mafia, we know, anyone could be evil. Firing wildly into the crowd doesn't help. You didn't even notice that ToonyMan was the first vote on a1s! Even if he's distancing, there was no need for a weird gambit, he could have just organically changed his vote.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 31, 2023, 12:01:59 pm
Do you even, want to vote zemaj? Just checking.

You seem like such a deeply conflicted voter here, Toony. Toony, Toony, Toonyman

What do you really want to do?
Kind of. Especially if Max and Irony are both town.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 31, 2023, 12:04:29 pm
Or are you just pretending at frustration and 'oh I have to do this now don't I' after you and a1s coordinated a claim gambit in your scumchat, knowing the day ends soon enough people won't be able to properly process a counterclaim?

That's on the table too.

It's exactly the sort of audacity I'd see cooked up to get a bandwagon to swerve (but like, you didn't have to claim, it was going to swerve anywayssss)
Ah yes, the coordinated tactic of having my partner a1s out themselves so they're guaranteed to die first or second to the lynch when they could keep their mouth shut and coast on a free win. Bullshit logic.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 31, 2023, 12:09:32 pm
What even is this.

Based on your numbers why isn't Fluffe in here? You literally gave them the lowest score of 1 1 3.
Sigh, because Fluffe is newless, youless, and clueless.

The vibe is less 'hide hide hide' and more 'new player who doesn't know what to do at all'

Though if he is scum and is hiding behind his newness I'm gonna be a touch irritated when the game ends. Specially since he would have a scum partner to mentor him.
Fluffe can think for themselves.

Why was Fluffe okay, but not a1s? I know you stated Max and Irony as your suspects, but you also didn't agree with me about a1s.

One of the things that bothers me is that both you and zemaj did not think a1s was very town, but players like Jim begrudgingly agreed with me that a1s is probably town. This makes me feel better about Jim.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 31, 2023, 12:21:24 pm

I'm in the middle of catching up on what I missed and on a whim checked to see if Fluffe9911 had done anything, and he hasn't.

Still need to catch up but with only a few hours left in the day this lack of action is pretty egregious.

Fluffe9911.

The vibe is less 'hide hide hide' and more 'new player who doesn't know what to do at all'

Though if he is scum and is hiding behind his newness I'm gonna be a touch irritated when the game ends. Specially since he would have a scum partner to mentor him.

Fluffe9911 can be pretty on the ball as he demonstrated in the latter portion of Wormwood Mafia.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)



Working on a post; might change my opinion once I catch up.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 31, 2023, 12:23:29 pm
Feelings
A nice post
Goes away
My feelings
*cough* *cough*
Pass on
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: zemaj on March 31, 2023, 01:03:07 pm
<bullshit>

no, I am not playing rehtorical games with you with less than 12 hours left to end of day.  We don't have time.  I get it, and I would typically approve, but too little, too late.  Try that shit when we have more time and I'll verbally fence with you an entire dayphase.


Since I'm going to die in the first day/night anyway, I might as well claim to be The Odd Night Doctor. If not lynched I can promise to save one of you from night-death (if simply by being the Mafia's first target.)

I don't need a read list, because I'm going to sheep Toonyman.


What profoundly, stupendously, unimaginably idiotic play is this?


YOU DIDN'T NEED TO CLAIM THAT
Ahem:
Vote Count
- a1s - [3] Toony, Zemaj, FallacyofUrist
~24 hours remaining
I am so under the hammer (even though there are no hammers) you'd think I was an anvil.


you had 3 votes... then I moved mine, specifically to keep from having any surprise hammer incidents overnight.  YOU WERE UNDER NO STRESS EVEN IF BOTH SCUM TRIED TO TRAIN YOU.  *


It's zemaj and FoU isn't it and I'm just incredibly untrustful of Max and Irony.
I don't know about them but it's really not me, bro.

Jeez, is the game ending today already? It barely feels like it's been three days. I told you this gimmick probably wasn't going to work!

Ehhh, technically, we should probably lynch ToonyMan today because, if he's evil, that's the only way we win, but if he's good we'll probably be able to make it work.

This last bit makes twisted logic, but I'm hesitant to lynch the one guy almost everyone agrees is town.  In a standard game, sure, we get the most info that way and can analyze votes vs. nk, D1 interactions, etc.  Here, we pretty much get the flip and have to move forward from there.  Toony flips town, no one is surprised, vote history is muddled, we just lose a townie and reward the good play with mistrust (that's just mafia...).  Or Toony flips scum, (most?) everyone is shocked, and we are left scrambling trying to figure out who his teammate is.  With as many interactions as Toony has had, I'm not sure I could even start to decipher what is coaching, or distancing, or just scumhunting to blend in.

It's as close to a zero-sum game as I'm willing to get, and I don't like it.


You could convince me by

expressing

Your feelings Max
That's one option.

OR.

I could just keep doing nothing.

Look, I don't really have any strong feelings one way or the other. Everybody's read lists looks weak to me and I don't think anyone's trying very hard. When nobody's trying very hard, how am I supposed to interpret anything?
The only thing I can really say is that a1s PROBABLY wouldn't be bold/dumb enough to claim doctor for no good reason as scum. So that's one "town". Sorry, I mean "town".
I'm neutral on Fallacy because everything he says sounds dumb, which is NAI.
I think you're probably town since you seem hopelessly despondent, which is consistent with your town meta. I think you know that though, and sometimes it means you just got a really sucky partner.
Fluffe seems dead, would lynch in any normal game.
I forgot who else was in the game and had to scroll down to look for a list.
Right, Jim, zemaj, IronyOwl. I like IronyOwl. Just, I mean, personally. But nothing he's said in this game has registered at all for me. I guess that's bad. He was right when he said I would approve of killing the people you can't read, though. That's not a contradiction to what I just said; I had to go back and look to remember it. Still, when I actually read what he writes I have to begrudgingly rate him town.
Jim would rather be playing Noita, as usual. I still don't really think he's scum. I feel like as scum he either tries harder OR totally coasts as a gambit like in KJJT, not in the middle. Remembering games where I was scum always reminds me that you are all completely justified in never trusting me, but I still don't like it.
Zemaj did that thing where he said something really dumb to me directly and I just automatically stopped caring, so whatever, non-entity. It's a little hard to describe what I think of his play because the way I presented it before was an intentional oversimplification, but I really think it's bad. I also, separately, think it's dumb, making it bad and dumb. That doesn't mean I have a grudge against it, though. I played it up as annoying for the sake of showing how bad it is but I actually find it mildly funny in a pompous sort of way, like the "a1s is town" thing.

Oh, now Fallacy is being pompous too. It's less funny and more dumb. Lay off the amphetamines a little, okay? Those things will kill you.
No, I get it, sometimes you wake up a little manic and post a bunch of times before you finish thinking, but the point I actually want to make is that your reliance on emotion and your constant "could YOU be the killer trying to confuse me, Fallacy, the hero of mafia, personally?!" paranoia is extremely counterproductive. This is also how I got you lynched pretty much every time you were town. You need to control your worst instincts. Yes, this is mafia, we know, anyone could be evil. Firing wildly into the crowd doesn't help. You didn't even notice that ToonyMan was the first vote on a1s! Even if he's distancing, there was no need for a weird gambit, he could have just organically changed his vote.

Oh, I get a snippet and Toony gets the long-winded spiel... meh, I'll take it.  Thanks for joining the game, anyway.

Is it weird that I strongly agree with the sentiments expressed in this AtE, and yet it pisses me off?  This game has been oddly frustrating like that.  Good to know my comedics D1 entertained someone, even if only barely.


What even is this.

Based on your numbers why isn't Fluffe in here? You literally gave them the lowest score of 1 1 3.
Sigh, because Fluffe is newless, youless, and clueless.

The vibe is less 'hide hide hide' and more 'new player who doesn't know what to do at all'

Though if he is scum and is hiding behind his newness I'm gonna be a touch irritated when the game ends. Specially since he would have a scum partner to mentor him.
Fluffe can think for themselves.

Why was Fluffe okay, but not a1s? I know you stated Max and Irony as your suspects, but you also didn't agree with me about a1s.

One of the things that bothers me is that both you and zemaj did not think a1s was very town, but players like Jim begrudgingly agreed with me that a1s is probably town. This makes me feel better about Jim.

Just to point out my scum read of a1s is based on a lack of visibility and content... I am in a position to have some insight into most of everyones playstyle by virtue of perusing old games.  Except a1s and Fluffe (also Irony Owl, but there is actual content there).  The two non-posters are the two I have little to no insight into, thus in lack of much else to go on, they are my preferred eliminations.  I shifted a vote to Max to avoid a lol-hammer on a1s and hopefully get Max to open up a little.  That last bit seems to have helped (?) somewhat, in that we finally got more than a one-sentence-blurb.

It's weak, I fully admit that, but it's what I've got.



* metagame BS:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 31, 2023, 01:10:21 pm
Feelings
A nice post
Goes away
My feelings
*cough* *cough*
Pass on
I don't know how to interpret this, but my condolences for your apparent death.

Jamez: I don't really want to lynch ToonyMan either, which is why I didn't vote for him. I was just pointing out that there was a sound argument for it.

Jamez: There are no hammers in this game.

Jamez: Demanding things, wheedling, or trying to "pressure" me will never get you what you want. I'm perverse like that. You have to ask in a way I decide pleases me. If you were perusing my old games to see my playstyle you surely noticed this?
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 31, 2023, 01:13:13 pm
Oh yeah, also: I honestly just started posting more because I had more attention to pay to the game. It didn't have anything to do with the game's events except for a minor element that more people posting means I had more to talk usefully about.

What's an AtE in this context, anyway?
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - (Short, Beginner Friendly). Baking roles...
Post by: notquitethere on March 31, 2023, 01:14:15 pm
Vote Count
- Toonyman -
- Jim Groovester
- MaximumSpin - [3] a1s, Zemaj, FallacyofUrist
- FallacyofUrist
- Fluffe9911 - [1] Jim Groovester
- a1s -
- Zemaj - [3] MaximumSpin, Irony Owl, Toony
- Irony Owl
- No Elimination

Not voting: Fluffe9911,

~4.25 hours remaining
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: zemaj on March 31, 2023, 01:25:57 pm
Feelings
A nice post
Goes away
My feelings
*cough* *cough*
Pass on
I don't know how to interpret this, but my condolences for your apparent death.

Jamez: I don't really want to lynch ToonyMan either, which is why I didn't vote for him. I was just pointing out that there was a sound argument for it.

Jamez: There are no hammers in this game.

Jamez: Demanding things, wheedling, or trying to "pressure" me will never get you what you want. I'm perverse like that. You have to ask in a way I decide pleases me. If you were perusing my old games to see my playstyle you surely noticed this?

Understood, just was expressing my thoughts on it to the assembly, so everyone can understand my logic and possibly see the sense and nonsense of a thing, or point out the flaw in my logic, when that applies.

Sauce? so I rolled a 1 on my reading comprehension... my bad

Actually, perusing your old games, the best way to get you to respond is to really get under your skin... unfortunately, best ways to achieve this haven't become totally apparent, and seems to vary by gamestate, but I was trying at it.  Incidentally, was it working?



PPE:

that's understandable and makes sense... a simple statement to the effect of having little time might have been a nice touch, but whatevs'

Appeal to Emotion
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 31, 2023, 01:31:15 pm
Actually, perusing your old games, the best way to get you to respond is to really get under your skin... unfortunately, best ways to achieve this haven't become totally apparent, and seems to vary by gamestate, but I was trying at it.  Incidentally, was it working?
No. Only one person in a mafia game ever has, and it made me quit mafia for a long time. I do like pretending to be annoyed or angry, though.

The reason you don't see a consistent approach is because I just answer things when I decide to.
Appeal to Emotion
What is it that you're calling an appeal to emotion? If I ever made one of those, it was by accident. My general opinion on emotions is that you should try not having them.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: IronyOwl on March 31, 2023, 01:48:10 pm
Alright. Let's put together a proper vote.

...

So to conclude. The scumteam is Maximum Spin and IronyOwl.
Then who?


<bullshit>

no, I am not playing rehtorical games with you with less than 12 hours left to end of day.  We don't have time.  I get it, and I would typically approve, but too little, too late.  Try that shit when we have more time and I'll verbally fence with you an entire dayphase.
Alright, I'll just murder you for being dodgy scum instead.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 31, 2023, 01:54:00 pm
So, to reiterate, we kind of need to figure out the game, which is a pretty tall order, because the end of Day 1 is approaching pretty quickly and we need to have it all figured out by then. So, chilling out and not really doing anything isn't going to cut it.
What do you think of the ramifications of scum knowing everyone's list versus town knowing everyone's list?

I mean they're already reading the thread so if they're not totally braindead then they should have a pretty good idea of where everybody stands. Codifying it into a list clarifies it for the scum but also clarifies it for the town, which isn't something to scoff at. A coordinated, high confidence group of town is difficult for the scum team to deal with and often wins games.

... jars in my mind with this bit.  While both may be true, shouldn't some of that suspicion bleed into your POE?  You have the person you say are most dangerous as scum directly above yourself.  I mean, it happens I agree with all of it, so I'm wondering why you aren't more suspicious for that, as I am.

I mean it is a risk but I have to make a judgment somewhere. I can second guess myself and maybe that would work but I don't have any compelling reason to think ToonyMan is scum.

reads

I think this is a good reads list.

Since I'm going to die in the first day/night anyway, I might as well claim to be The Odd Night Doctor. If not lynched I can promise to save one of you from night-death (if simply by being the Mafia's first target.)

I don't need a read list, because I'm going to sheep Toonyman.

*siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh*

Well, this solves your slot at least which was probably more valuable than any protect you could've pulled off.

This is how I'm going to die, arguing with someone on the internet.

zemaj

I don't follow. In the posts I'm catching up with you said you thought he was town.

What changed?

Ehhh, technically, we should probably lynch ToonyMan today because, if he's evil, that's the only way we win, but if he's good we'll probably be able to make it work.

I'm not really a fan of suspecting people because of how dangerous they are and I really wouldn't feel a ToonyMan lynch, but if you've got some sort of proposal, I'm listening.

If we're doing some 'lynch by danger' scheme I think I'd rather start with you honestly.



I think I'm most okay with Fluffe9911 or Maximum Spin for the Day 1 elimination. Not on board with a ToonyMan or FallacyofUrist elimination. Not a fan a zemaj or IronyOwl elimination, but not as strongly opposed compared to a ToonyMan or FallacyofUrist elimination. I believe a1s' claim, and unless somebody like Fluffe9911 bursts through the wall with a doctor counterclaim (I don't think I could believe anybody else) I put a1s at the bottom of my elimination list.

So I think I'm at:

Fluffe9911
Maximum Spin
IronyOwl
zemaj
FallacyofUrist
ToonyMan
a1s
Jim Groovester

Maximum Spin is probably a more informative lynch compared to Fluffe9911 who has done so little that his death doesn't really clarify things one way or the other so I might end up switching to Max.

Thinking about the game, the game could end by the end of Night 2 with two mislynches and two night kills, so to make it to Day 3 there needs to be at least one scum elimination. Do I think there is at least one scum in my top two? For some reason it doesn't fill me with confidence, but trying to think about how I would reorder it to improve my confidence isn't coming up with any measurably better solution. I would feel a lot more confident saying there is at least one scum in my top three so it's too bad the game doesn't have nine players. Not having the benefit of future flips to help solve the game makes this feel pretty difficult.

Probably going to reread the game real quick to see if it offers any insight about potential teams.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 31, 2023, 01:59:08 pm
On the other hand, I really don't want to let Fluffe9911 off the hook for lurking this egregiously. He's barely posted a game related opinion.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Fluffe9911 on March 31, 2023, 02:10:53 pm
Yeah I apologize for not doing much In hindsight I probably shouldn't of signed up for this one cause I'm genuinely not good at being useful on the first day. (which is terrible for a game that only really takes place on the 1st day)

I guess to sorta make up for it ill go ahead and share my thoughts

Maximum Spin: Wrote a literal paragraph/rant about all the players def engaged if nothing else very annoyed at Fallacy.
IronyOwl: Playing pretty normally I think responding to questions, asking questions, generally being about a average level of useful.
zemaj: If they are scum it's probably with Fallacy frankly I think out of a scum pair zemaj and Fallacy are the most likely, pretty aggressive.
FallacyofUrist: If they are scum it's probably with Zemaj, also decently aggressive.
ToonyMan: A bit indecisive and quick to change their vote first to vote for a1 although changed it later
a1s: Hasn't really said anything incriminating but hasn't really said anything that useful either... is what I would say if they didn't claim their role
Jim Groovester: Understandably wants to lynch me been pretty active hasn't done anything that id really consider scummy not much else to say.

Personally im gonna vote for Zemaj the Fallacy + Zemaj duo is probably too obvious to be actually right but can't think of any other duos that really stand out right now.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 31, 2023, 02:14:24 pm
Maximum Spin: Wrote a literal paragraph/rant about all the players def engaged if nothing else very annoyed at Fallacy.
I mean I appreciate the respect but honestly no. Maybe I exaggerate my reactions too much now that there are all these people who haven't learned I'm not serious.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Fluffe9911 on March 31, 2023, 02:20:11 pm
Maximum Spin: Wrote a literal paragraph/rant about all the players def engaged if nothing else very annoyed at Fallacy.
I mean I appreciate the respect but honestly no. Maybe I exaggerate my reactions too much now that there are all these people who haven't learned I'm not serious.
Thats a bit pointless aint it? I mean whats the point in pretending to be annoyed or mad when you actually dont care? That just feels like something to use as a shield whenever your actually annoyed/angry and is gonna lead to boy who cried wolf situations in the future.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 31, 2023, 02:21:05 pm
Man Jim is town. I'm pretty sure he's town. How likely do I think it's exactly zemaj and FoU? It doesn't seem real and makes me look really dumb for townreading both at start of day. Not only do both of them got each other's back, but Jim is still strongly advocating FoU.

If I throw all that to the side then it's two mafia inside Max/Irony/Fluffe, and Max resonates with me the most here even if he could be tricking me. Leaving Fluffe and Irony.

@Fluffe:
So if you flip town it's probably zemaj and FoU? I'm putting both at my top if you flip town today. What about Max/Irony? That's the only thing else that seems possible to me.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: IronyOwl on March 31, 2023, 02:21:45 pm
On the other hand, I really don't want to let Fluffe9911 off the hook for lurking this egregiously. He's barely posted a game related opinion.
Wait. I went back to check on this.


Posting to show I exist!
Are you sure you exist? Maybe you're actually secretly a hydra of Org and Dermonster.
I don't know who either of those two people are so that means I must exist!
Well, I can't argue with that. Do you think I'm mafia?
No clue!
Also can't argue with that. Well, I can't yet.

If I asked you the same question in 48 hours from now, do you think you'd have a decent guess?
Unless you self-incriminate yourself on words alone probably not!
Quote from: Jim Groovester
You're leaving a much different impression this game compared to the late game of Wormwood Mafia. In that game you were fucking ready to rumble, but here the feistiness is missing.
Early game Fluffe does not equal late game Fluffe lol.
Fluffe and IronyOwl being together would be...odd.
Alrighty since people want me to actually do more things on the first day than just meme around I guess ill bite why would me and Irony be odd?

Also @Fallacy why ya seem so confident it aint Zemaj? Ya even said he was def town even before he posted anything lol.
Also @Fallacy why ya seem so confident it aint Zemaj? Ya even said he was def town even before he posted anything lol.

I've never seen him before, but this isn't really a meta read. It just looks like he's playing too aggressively to be scum. There's no hesitation at all.

His sense of humor might not be salvageable, though.
Aint playing too aggressively normally a scum sign though?
This is every single post he's had in the game. He's done literally nothing except:

1. Ask why it'd be weird for him to be my scumbuddy
2. Ask if zemaj's aggressiveness is maybe a scumsign

I was giving him a pass for derpiness but this seems pretty exceptional. It actively makes me question killing zemaj, just because the only input Fluffe has had all game is "hey maybe zemaj is guilty after all?"


PPE:
Personally im gonna vote for Zemaj the Fallacy + Zemaj duo is probably too obvious to be actually right but can't think of any other duos that really stand out right now.
I stand corrected! Why is the scumteam zemaj and Fallacy, rather than you and MaximumSpin?
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Fluffe9911 on March 31, 2023, 02:24:22 pm
@Fluffe:
So if you flip town it's probably zemaj and FoU? I'm putting both at my top if you flip town today. What about Max/Irony? That's the only thing else that seems possible to me.
Probably? I mean I guess it could be Max/Irony but Irony dislikes Max too much right now I feel for that to be a realistic possibility.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 31, 2023, 02:25:32 pm
Thats a bit pointless aint it? I mean whats the point in pretending to be annoyed or mad when you actually dont care? That just feels like something to use as a shield whenever your actually annoyed/angry and is gonna lead to boy who cried wolf situations in the future.
It's not that I don't care. I stand by the advice I gave Fallacy. I just play up the appearance of frustration because it was fun and gave me the opportunity to tease him for being hyper.

Anyway, Toony, I really am completely serious about being okay with being lynched if it wins the game. I normally hate that because I have to wait for the next game, but in this case, it actually just obviates the need for me to do any more work, and I get the same amount of game as anyone else.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 31, 2023, 02:27:45 pm
I stand corrected! Why is the scumteam zemaj and Fallacy, rather than you and MaximumSpin?
Aw, Irony, that's mean.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Fluffe9911 on March 31, 2023, 02:33:46 pm
All this.
Anddd this is why I hate the 1st day. Just cause I haven't been doing much doesn't mean I don't still form my opinions about things I just don't like sharing them cause news flash its all gut feelings! The only way to get a mafia on the first damn day is if they incriminate themselves on words alone and I believe the average person is smart enough to not do that you can't logic things out you can't look at past actions and deduct based off shown allegiances and words with the bonus of future context to them nopeeee its literally nothing but gut feelings and nothing else good luck!!! I will (probably) NEVER have the proper mindset to be aggressive or properly engaging on the first day outside of answering questions (unless im a mafia or something cause then I can just bullshite my aggression!) I don't know what else to say.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 31, 2023, 02:39:36 pm
All this.
Anddd this is why I hate the 1st day. Just cause I haven't been doing much doesn't mean I don't still form my opinions about things I just don't like sharing them cause news flash its all gut feelings! The only way to get a mafia on the first damn day is if they incriminate themselves on words alone and I believe the average person is smart enough to not do that you can't logic things out you can't look at past actions and deduct based off shown allegiances and words with the bonus of future context to them nopeeee its literally nothing but gut feelings and nothing else good luck!!! I will (probably) NEVER have the proper mindset to be aggressive or properly engaging on the first day outside of answering questions (unless im a mafia or something cause then I can just bullshite my aggression!) I don't know what else to say.
This game has only got one day, so you have to rewire your brain to pretend it's the last day instead. You've got a little under two hours to do it.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Fluffe9911 on March 31, 2023, 02:39:59 pm
PPE:
Personally im gonna vote for Zemaj the Fallacy + Zemaj duo is probably too obvious to be actually right but can't think of any other duos that really stand out right now.
I stand corrected! Why is the scumteam zemaj and Fallacy, rather than you and MaximumSpin?
Well logically I know im not a mafia since im aware of my role as a player in this game. Since that rules out me and Max from my POV It is my opinion that based off the current vibe that it is unlikely for Max to be scum with you or anyone else since none of you really seem to clash well not a big fan of the feel free to lynch me play he is doing though that doesnt really make any sense to me.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 31, 2023, 02:51:03 pm
And of course Fluffe9911 starts showing up and in force as soon as I mock him about it.

Somebody sell me on zemaj. I feel weird not seeing what people are getting at with him and the proposed zemaj/FoU team.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 31, 2023, 02:52:20 pm
not a big fan of the feel free to lynch me play he is doing though that doesnt really make any sense to me.
I've been on the other side of this, seeing people get distracted by someone and realizing that town just needed to get the lynch out of its system so it could see clearly. Last remember this happening in Paranormal, when Jack just went nuts and had to kill Knightwing.

If it's gonna be my turn on the chopping block, at least it's a game where I lose nothing.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Fluffe9911 on March 31, 2023, 02:56:06 pm
This game has only got one day, so you have to rewire your brain to pretend it's the last day instead. You've got a little under two hours to do it.
You kinda missed my main point about why I hate day 1 but sure screw it ill give it a shot got nothing to lose I guess.

@Jim Tell me why are you so confident that it can't be Toony and it's unlikely to be Zemaj? They haven't done anything that screams 100% town to me so im not certain of your reasoning

@Max If you were actually a town why would you want to let yourself be lynched? How does you getting lynched help more than someone else getting lynched?

@Irony Tell me if it wasnt me and Max who do you think it would be?

@Toony Why do ya keep changing your votes around so much?

@a1 Ya know revealing your role was a terrible idea right?
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Fluffe9911 on March 31, 2023, 02:58:32 pm
I've been on the other side of this, seeing people get distracted by someone and realizing that town just needed to get the lynch out of its system so it could see clearly. Last remember this happening in Paranormal, when Jack just went nuts and had to kill Knightwing.

If it's gonna be my turn on the chopping block, at least it's a game where I lose nothing.
I guess that's fair but I don't think you getting lynched would really help the town as much as ya think it would it feels like a misplay to me in this specific game.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Fluffe9911 on March 31, 2023, 03:03:00 pm
And of course Fluffe9911 starts showing up and in force as soon as I mock him about it.

Somebody sell me on zemaj. I feel weird not seeing what people are getting at with him and the proposed zemaj/FoU team.
Well it mostly goes back to the start of the first day Zem jokingly says FoU and you are his top scum candidates in a case closed boys meme type way. They joke around for a bit and then Fallacy does a nonserious vote on Zem with the added words of ``He's not scum, I just want to see his reaction.`` all of this feels way too buddy buddy for two town who as far as im aware have never interacted with eachother before. Fallacy simply feels too confident about Zem not being bad that it frankly looks suspicious as hell to me the fact they aint accused eachother at all since does not help my feelings here.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 31, 2023, 03:04:45 pm
@Max If you were actually a town why would you want to let yourself be lynched? How does you getting lynched help more than someone else getting lynched?
It would be better to lynch scum, but at least lynching me can lead to a town victory if people become more right and less wrong after seeing they were wrong about me.

On the contrary, if I were scum, why would I want to let myself be lynched? Town is almost always more willing to be lynched than scum. There are exceptions, but generally, there are plenty of town and one player isn't worth as much as everyone else being more informed.

Now, you'll never ever see me espousing this view normally, because I join mafia games to play mafia, not to play one round of mafia and then sit and wait. I hate dying early, and, well, me having fun is more important to me than winning. That's part of why ToonyMan calls me selfish as town. But this specific game is different because of the mechanics. And also I don't really want to have to submit a list.

I've been on the other side of this, seeing people get distracted by someone and realizing that town just needed to get the lynch out of its system so it could see clearly. Last remember this happening in Paranormal, when Jack just went nuts and had to kill Knightwing.

If it's gonna be my turn on the chopping block, at least it's a game where I lose nothing.
I guess that's fair but I don't think you getting lynched would really help the town as much as ya think it would it feels like a misplay to me in this specific game.
Oh sure. I'm not convinced it IS my turn on the chopping block. That's why I'm asking people.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 31, 2023, 03:07:55 pm
It's pretty much what Fluffe says. zemaj and FoU show blind support of each other for reasons I do not understand. It's not to say they could both be town, but it bothers me. Plus the stuff with a1s where they both had them as suspicious which I disagreed with.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Fluffe9911 on March 31, 2023, 03:09:02 pm
On the contrary, if I were scum, why would I want to let myself be lynched? Town is almost always more willing to be lynched than scum. There are exceptions, but generally, there are plenty of town and one player isn't worth as much as everyone else being more informed.
Well ya wouldn't but saying just lynch me when ya know you probably aint gonna be lynched can be a good smoke screen if your actually a mafia cause as you mention it does make you look like town which is what really matters here. Of course this is under the assumption your betting on them not actually lynching you which personally is probably not a bet I can see you taking right now so ill reluctantly believe your town.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 31, 2023, 03:12:50 pm
Max seems pretty genuine here. We know he's not the cop since he claimed no power early on, which could be a scum move, but it's strange because scum would want to claim a power role if they're about to die to at least out a town role power. Max claiming townie means he can't make this move if he was mafia. It's not perfect logic, but it is relatively convincing.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: zemaj on March 31, 2023, 03:17:15 pm
Somebody sell me on zemaj. I feel weird not seeing what people are getting at with him and the proposed zemaj/FoU team.

QFE.  I mean, if it's elimination for information, that makes sense, I guess.  I've had enough interactions, reads, etc. that I would be a decent enough target.  Probably better than Toony, as most feel me less town, and better than Max, for more content to draw conclusions from.  I don't like this idea, in fact, I am in direct opposition to it, but I see the reasoning, and it isn't without merit.

As for me and FoU scumteam... I don't get it, but then I know my role, so I haven't analyzed that angle.  We were apparently suspicious of each other, then rated each as likely town, but thats not weird for me, at least... I'm usually suspicious of my town reads.

PPE:

And of course Fluffe9911 starts showing up and in force as soon as I mock him about it.

Somebody sell me on zemaj. I feel weird not seeing what people are getting at with him and the proposed zemaj/FoU team.
Well it mostly goes back to the start of the first day Zem jokingly says FoU and you are his top scum candidates in a case closed boys meme type way. They joke around for a bit and then Fallacy does a nonserious vote on Zem with the added words of ``He's not scum, I just want to see his reaction.`` all of this feels way too buddy buddy for two town who as far as im aware have never interacted with eachother before. Fallacy simply feels too confident about Zem not being bad that it frankly looks suspicious as hell to me the fact they aint accused eachother at all since does not help my feelings here.

It's pretty much what Fluffe says. zemaj and FoU show blind support of each other for reasons I do not understand. It's not to say they could both be town, but it bothers me. Plus the stuff with a1s where they both had them as suspicious which I disagreed with.

there we go.  Not sure how that makes me more a candidate than Fallacy, but apparently it does.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: IronyOwl on March 31, 2023, 03:18:29 pm
I stand corrected! Why is the scumteam zemaj and Fallacy, rather than you and MaximumSpin?
Aw, Irony, that's mean.
You're dangerous and weird.
ToonyMan is also dangerous and weird, but appears to be panicking as day ends, as is good and proper for town who's realizing we don't have anything and the clock is ticking down.
zemaj became immediately defensive and opaque upon being questioned about his scumpick reasoning.
Fluffe has been completely useless until ten minutes ago.

FoU is town by everyone's reckoning but I have no idea what he's doing lately.
Jim feels town to me, albeit more interested in blowing himself up than blowing up scum.
a1s has claimed, so apparently ironclad town.

Current votes by my reckoning:
Quote
- Toonyman -
- Jim Groovester
- MaximumSpin - [4] a1s, Zemaj, FallacyofUrist, Irony Owl
- FallacyofUrist
- Fluffe9911 - [1] Jim Groovester
- a1s -
- Zemaj - [3] MaximumSpin, Toony, Fluffe9911
- Irony Owl
- No Elimination
If we make the assumption that scum aren't voting each other, we get two different factions.

You and zemaj are voting for each other, which implies the scumteam isn't Max+zemaj. Not that I'd put it past you to suggest you bus each other to spread yourselves out.
Both you and Fluffe are voting zemaj, which implies the scumteam wouldn't be zemaj+Fluffe or zemaj+Max.

Thus, my current best guess is you and Fluffe are the scum and have both been lurking your way to victory because neither of you really cares about finding the scum that you are.


Somebody sell me on zemaj. I feel weird not seeing what people are getting at with him and the proposed zemaj/FoU team.
Spoiler: Exhibit A (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Exhibit B (click to show/hide)
He became immediately defensive and refused to discuss his own reads and reasoning when asked. That reads like jumpy scum or town with some kind of chip on its shoulder.


@Irony Tell me if it wasnt me and Max who do you think it would be?
Obviously zemaj is at the top of this list, but I don't have a good partner for him. FoU after all, I think?

Do you regret being passive the entire game? You seem to have sprang into action now.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Fluffe9911 on March 31, 2023, 03:24:07 pm
Do you regret being passive the entire game? You seem to have sprang into action now.
Nope wish I was a bit more active yesterday but as far as the first 24 hours go 0 regrets.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 31, 2023, 03:25:46 pm
You're dangerous and weird.
ToonyMan is also dangerous and weird, but appears to be panicking as day ends, as is good and proper for town who's realizing we don't have anything and the clock is ticking down.
Well, sorry I'm not a panicker. I figure, I did my bit, what happens from here is fate. I definitely don't want to change my vote, I've made my case to the best of my capacity, what else can I do?

If you agree with me that Zemaj is scummy, why are you voting for me?
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: IronyOwl on March 31, 2023, 03:38:45 pm
Well, sorry I'm not a panicker. I figure, I did my bit, what happens from here is fate. I definitely don't want to change my vote, I've made my case to the best of my capacity, what else can I do?
Yeah but you were unapologetically apathetic for most of the game. This doesn't feel like trying your best and what happens happens. More like not really caring about not doing anything and nothing good coming from it.

If you agree with me that Zemaj is scummy, why are you voting for me?
Because Fluffe is also voting for zemaj, which implies they're not both scum. That's it.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: zemaj on March 31, 2023, 03:39:48 pm
Somebody sell me on zemaj. I feel weird not seeing what people are getting at with him and the proposed zemaj/FoU team.
Spoiler: Exhibit A (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Exhibit B (click to show/hide)
He became immediately defensive and refused to discuss his own reads and reasoning when asked. That reads like jumpy scum or town with some kind of chip on its shoulder.

I don't see how two interpretations of the same event by the same person that come to the same conclusion are so decisive, but maybe if they were mine own I would see the obviousness of it.

seriously, that is a blatant oversimplification of the interaction where you basically invited me to rank players subjectively, which can really only lead to bad feelings, and mire up the actual discussion, which is already about as thin as it gets, for this setup.  If you had pulled that 18hours earlier, I'd have been all over it, just to get conversation moving.  However, at the time you did, with less than 24hrs left to day end, and with such low participation, its either scum trying to get town in chaos or oblivious wise fool, and I refuse to engage with either.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 31, 2023, 03:41:35 pm
I'm locking it in. a1s is town. Jim is most likely town.

Mafia are Max/Fluffe or zemaj/FoU.

Irony doesn't fit in here so they're probably town as well, but I would rate them lower than a1s and Jim.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: IronyOwl on March 31, 2023, 03:49:39 pm
seriously, that is a blatant oversimplification of the interaction where you basically invited me to rank players subjectively, which can really only lead to bad feelings, and mire up the actual discussion, which is already about as thin as it gets, for this setup.  If you had pulled that 18hours earlier, I'd have been all over it, just to get conversation moving.  However, at the time you did, with less than 24hrs left to day end, and with such low participation, its either scum trying to get town in chaos or oblivious wise fool, and I refuse to engage with either.
I asked you to clarify how much of your scum reads were from poor play as opposed to other factors. That's not a distraction guaranteed to hurt people's feelings, that's a fundamental part of how you are playing (or claim to be playing) the game. You also did so at first while claiming I was trying to set you up, so apparently you found some merit and not that much harm in it.

It was only after I asked if I understood you correctly that you seemingly panicked and just refused to talk about it any further.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: zemaj on March 31, 2023, 03:53:46 pm
seriously, that is a blatant oversimplification of the interaction where you basically invited me to rank players subjectively, which can really only lead to bad feelings, and mire up the actual discussion, which is already about as thin as it gets, for this setup.  If you had pulled that 18hours earlier, I'd have been all over it, just to get conversation moving.  However, at the time you did, with less than 24hrs left to day end, and with such low participation, its either scum trying to get town in chaos or oblivious wise fool, and I refuse to engage with either.
I asked you to clarify how much of your scum reads were from poor play as opposed to other factors. That's not a distraction guaranteed to hurt people's feelings, that's a fundamental part of how you are playing (or claim to be playing) the game. You also did so at first while claiming I was trying to set you up, so apparently you found some merit and not that much harm in it.

It was only after I asked if I understood you correctly that you seemingly panicked and just refused to talk about it any further.

because I thought you would see my point if I gave you what you wanted in brief, without making a big deal of it.  But of course you did... and here we are.  Anyone else want more clarification on this with less than an hour left of day?
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 31, 2023, 03:58:38 pm
@Toony Why do ya keep changing your votes around so much?
I've voted twice.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 31, 2023, 03:59:26 pm
Zemaj, right now, if you aren't scum, town loses.
You should be presenting an alternate case.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Fluffe9911 on March 31, 2023, 04:01:29 pm
@Toony Why do ya keep changing your votes around so much?
I've voted twice.
reads back through the chat so far Oh whoops for some reason had it in my mind ya kept changing it around my bad.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 31, 2023, 04:09:13 pm
@Jim Tell me why are you so confident that it can't be Toony and it's unlikely to be Zemaj? They haven't done anything that screams 100% town to me so im not certain of your reasoning

Gut feel mostly.

ToonyMan looks genuine to me and feels like he has stake in the outcome of the end of day. I don't feel as strongly about zemaj as I do about ToonyMan but I feel like he has a decent amount of substance and his understanding of the game state seems to align with mine well enough.

And of course Fluffe9911 starts showing up and in force as soon as I mock him about it.

Somebody sell me on zemaj. I feel weird not seeing what people are getting at with him and the proposed zemaj/FoU team.
Well it mostly goes back to the start of the first day Zem jokingly says FoU and you are his top scum candidates in a case closed boys meme type way. They joke around for a bit and then Fallacy does a nonserious vote on Zem with the added words of ``He's not scum, I just want to see his reaction.`` all of this feels way too buddy buddy for two town who as far as im aware have never interacted with eachother before. Fallacy simply feels too confident about Zem not being bad that it frankly looks suspicious as hell to me the fact they aint accused eachother at all since does not help my feelings here.

Does it stem all from that one interaction?

It's pretty much what Fluffe says. zemaj and FoU show blind support of each other for reasons I do not understand. It's not to say they could both be town, but it bothers me. Plus the stuff with a1s where they both had them as suspicious which I disagreed with.

I guess I understand this a bit better but I still don't really feel it for myself.

Somebody sell me on zemaj. I feel weird not seeing what people are getting at with him and the proposed zemaj/FoU team.
Spoiler: Exhibit A (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Exhibit B (click to show/hide)
He became immediately defensive and refused to discuss his own reads and reasoning when asked. That reads like jumpy scum or town with some kind of chip on its shoulder.

Okay but this is just some stupid slap fight that didn't need to happen. I don't think there's really a gotcha here.

Jim feels town to me, albeit more interested in blowing himself up than blowing up scum.

NOITA IS VERY FUN

there we go.  Not sure how that makes me more a candidate than Fallacy, but apparently it does.

I guess now would be a pretty good time to describe what your solution to the game looks like.



Going to go with Maximum Spin. If Max flips scum, I think I shoot Fluffe9911 and IronyOwl next. If Max is town, I think I shoot zemaj and FallacyofUrist and then IronyOwl.

There's a lot more thinking I should do about this decision but not really enough time. Max/Fluffe9911 and zemaj/FoU as dichotomies for scum teams doesn't feel completely right to me, but the day is ending and I kind of want to do other stuff today than play mafia (like play Noita). I'll have to give my elimination list some thought.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: zemaj on March 31, 2023, 04:22:14 pm
Zemaj, right now, if you aren't scum, town loses.
You should be presenting an alternate case.

uh, how?  I don't see how I'm so suspicious aside from my supposed connection to the guy that hasn't posted for 10hrs.  I think the argument is shit, but people are eating it up so I guess I'm in line for D2.  My best hope is cop makes a good inspection, and saves my ass.

At least, if you flip town.  But as I am better than ~70% on you being scum, I'm pretty sure people will let this silly idea that two people reading each other town and agreeing is utterly damning.  Sometimes, people just agree, dispite their better judgement.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: a1s on March 31, 2023, 04:27:06 pm
are you trying to cause a tie, Jim Groovester?

Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 31, 2023, 04:33:12 pm
I think the argument is shit, but people are eating it up so I guess I'm in line for D2.  My best hope is cop makes a good inspection, and saves my ass.

At least, if you flip town.  But as I am better than ~70% on you being scum, I'm pretty sure people will let this silly idea that two people reading each other town and agreeing is utterly damning.  Sometimes, people just agree, dispite their better judgement.
I don't think the argument is shit. Especially if Max is town. Fluffe isn't even considering Max here. Fluffe would rather consider you and FoU together than Max being mafia.

are you trying to cause a tie, Jim Groovester?
If anything he made the gap wider.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 31, 2023, 04:39:41 pm
are you trying to cause a tie, Jim Groovester?

Tracking from IronyOwl's votecount (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181535.msg8465195#msg8465195), which accurately tracks from notquitethere's votecount (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181535.msg8465147#msg8465147),

No I'm not trying to cause a tie and I didn't cause one.

You're dangerous and weird.

Really hoping somebody puts this in their signature.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 31, 2023, 04:41:32 pm
You're dangerous and weird.

Really hoping somebody puts this in their signature.
Okay. It was about me anyway.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 31, 2023, 04:43:49 pm
lmao
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Fluffe9911 on March 31, 2023, 04:47:07 pm
You're dangerous and weird.

Really hoping somebody puts this in their signature.
Okay. It was about me anyway.
Nice.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: zemaj on March 31, 2023, 04:50:57 pm
I think the argument is shit, but people are eating it up so I guess I'm in line for D2.  My best hope is cop makes a good inspection, and saves my ass.

At least, if you flip town.  But as I am better than ~70% on you being scum, I'm pretty sure people will let this silly idea that two people reading each other town and agreeing is utterly damning.  Sometimes, people just agree, dispite their better judgement.
I don't think the argument is shit. Especially if Max is town. Fluffe isn't even considering Max here. Fluffe would rather consider you and FoU together than Max being mafia.

So you think Fluffe's arguments and thoughts are better than mine?  Really?  You've mentioned being ill, is it a fever? 

I'm kind of deflated from all this sudden turn on me... based on an argument that comes from a lurker focusing on early interactions, that all, somehow I'm not clear on, make me specifically look worse than the other guy.  Sure you eliminate him next.  Great.  IMO, two town gone.  Only thing that makes it palatable is my confidence that Max is one of scum.  So I'm good... that's still 2 shots to get scum, which I think is likely.  Not my favorite outcome, where I live to the end with a win, but a win, which is better than a loss.


PPE:

Noice
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: IronyOwl on March 31, 2023, 04:52:02 pm
Mafia are Max/Fluffe or zemaj/FoU.
Guess I'm going with this.

I'm not entirely sold on the scumteam model because it's very brittle; even a slightly weird action from either scum could totally throw it off. But I don't have a better idea and we're out of time.

Good luck everyone.


You're dangerous and weird.

Really hoping somebody puts this in their signature.
Okay. It was about me anyway.
Nice.
lmao indeed
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 31, 2023, 04:52:15 pm
But as I am better than ~70% on you being scum, I'm pretty sure people will let this silly idea that two people reading each other town and agreeing is utterly damning.  Sometimes, people just agree, dispite their better judgement.
Okay, well, that's a stupid reason to take an L, but whatever. I gave you a chance.

If you were paying attention you would've seen the cop only inspects on even nights so D2 will go without.

If it isn't you I think your most likely bet is ToonyMan and... IronyOwl, I guess. So, good luck with that. Looks like it won't be my problem.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 31, 2023, 04:57:04 pm
are you trying to cause a tie, Jim Groovester?

Let me just say that I love the 300 IQ move of voting somebody for causing a tie that never happened and then running off without correcting it thirty minutes before the end of the day.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: zemaj on March 31, 2023, 04:57:47 pm
But as I am better than ~70% on you being scum, I'm pretty sure people will let this silly idea that two people reading each other town and agreeing is utterly damning.  Sometimes, people just agree, dispite their better judgement.
Okay, well, that's a stupid reason to take an L, but whatever. I gave you a chance.

If you were paying attention you would've seen the cop only inspects on even nights so D2 will go without.

If it isn't you I think your most likely bet is ToonyMan and... IronyOwl, I guess. So, good luck with that. Looks like it won't be my problem.

Exactly, cop inspects tonight, gets scum (I hope), that influences D2 elimination.  That's how I understand it, anyway.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 31, 2023, 04:58:46 pm
Exactly, cop inspects tonight, gets scum (I hope), that influences D2 elimination.  That's how I understand it, anyway.
One is an odd number.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 31, 2023, 04:59:06 pm
So you think Fluffe's arguments and thoughts are better than mine?  Really?  You've mentioned being ill, is it a fever?
It's not a fever I think it's a really bad cold. I've had it for the majority of this game so if we lose I blame that. 

I'm kind of deflated from all this sudden turn on me... based on an argument that comes from a lurker focusing on early interactions, that all, somehow I'm not clear on, make me specifically look worse than the other guy.  Sure you eliminate him next.  Great.  IMO, two town gone.  Only thing that makes it palatable is my confidence that Max is one of scum.  So I'm good... that's still 2 shots to get scum, which I think is likely.  Not my favorite outcome, where I live to the end with a win, but a win, which is better than a loss.
I don't think it's a sudden turn I've been pretty adamant of my suspicions if Max is town. Do you see why I think it's odd you rate FoU so highly as town? And that FoU does the same for you? You even pointed out to Jim earlier in this game that they had paranoia about me, but apparently have resigned themselves to their fate and trust that I'm town. I don't see that kind of resolution with you and FoU.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 31, 2023, 05:00:14 pm
are you trying to cause a tie, Jim Groovester?

Let me just say that I love the 300 IQ move of voting somebody for causing a tie that never happened and then running off without correcting it thirty minutes before the end of the day.

Never mind, day evidently ends in half an hour.

I retract my comment, at least for that long.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: FallacyofUrist on March 31, 2023, 05:07:40 pm
Posting from phone.

Basically from zemaj’s behavior I have a hard time imagining him as scum.

He’s doing the very opposite of hanging back and not engaging, and while his argumentation hasn’t always been the best, I just haven’t seen any scum tells from him. Just incompetence. Same reason I’m not going after Fluffe.

It’s Spin and Owl. That’s my best estimate.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: zemaj on March 31, 2023, 05:13:34 pm
Exactly, cop inspects tonight, gets scum (I hope), that influences D2 elimination.  That's how I understand it, anyway.
One is an odd number.

... you are right, and I am even more confused by a1s' play now than ever, which is something.

well, fuck... numbers from earlier hold if you are scum, and noone has made much of a case that doesn't frame me, so I'm hosed, but town wins.  Eat it, scummy.

So you think Fluffe's arguments and thoughts are better than mine?  Really?  You've mentioned being ill, is it a fever?
It's not a fever I think it's a really bad cold. I've had it for the majority of this game so if we lose I blame that. 

I'm kind of deflated from all this sudden turn on me... based on an argument that comes from a lurker focusing on early interactions, that all, somehow I'm not clear on, make me specifically look worse than the other guy.  Sure you eliminate him next.  Great.  IMO, two town gone.  Only thing that makes it palatable is my confidence that Max is one of scum.  So I'm good... that's still 2 shots to get scum, which I think is likely.  Not my favorite outcome, where I live to the end with a win, but a win, which is better than a loss.
I don't think it's a sudden turn I've been pretty adamant of my suspicions if Max is town. Do you see why I think it's odd you rate FoU so highly as town? And that FoU does the same for you? You even pointed out to Jim earlier in this game that they had paranoia about me, but apparently have resigned themselves to their fate and trust that I'm town. I don't see that kind of resolution with you and FoU.

condolences, sorry if that was rude, but I am under some stress here.

I do get it, that's why I'm not trying to fight it.  I've made that argument, and its solid.  I can only point out it somehow only involves me being scum, when I know Fallacy is a better chance for that (and I get that you don't, obviously).  It puts me in an odd spot, and trying to make a case is just passing it to someone I happen to think is town, for reasons stated, much the same reasons you have for the same read.  That is only helpful to me, not town.  I'd like to help me, but if me then Fallacy are going to be next after Max, and that still leaves time for cop to do something to influence that, I'm oddly at ease.  I don't like it, but I'm not going to fight it and distract from anything good that may happen at day end.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 31, 2023, 05:14:58 pm
It’s Spin and Owl. That’s my best estimate.
You missed out on the shipping name: Max Irony
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: IronyOwl on March 31, 2023, 05:19:28 pm
Posting from phone.

Basically from zemaj’s behavior I have a hard time imagining him as scum.

He’s doing the very opposite of hanging back and not engaging, and while his argumentation hasn’t always been the best, I just haven’t seen any scum tells from him. Just incompetence. Same reason I’m not going after Fluffe.

It’s Spin and Owl. That’s my best estimate.
This seems too obvious for a FoU+zemaj scumteam, but then again I don't have a good explanation for voting Jim and keeping your vote on Jim while the rest of us lynch your top scumpick.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 31, 2023, 05:21:17 pm
@FoU:
Why would Irony bus Max here? A lot of players would still have Irony as a top3 pick even if Max flipped mafia. I don't think that's a winning move.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 31, 2023, 05:23:43 pm
Posting from phone.

Basically from zemaj’s behavior I have a hard time imagining him as scum.

He’s doing the very opposite of hanging back and not engaging, and while his argumentation hasn’t always been the best, I just haven’t seen any scum tells from him. Just incompetence. Same reason I’m not going after Fluffe.

It’s Spin and Owl. That’s my best estimate.
This seems too obvious for a FoU+zemaj scumteam, but then again I don't have a good explanation for voting Jim and keeping your vote on Jim while the rest of us lynch your top scumpick.

?

a1s is voting me, not FallacyofUrist. He's voting Maximum Spin.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: ToonyMan on March 31, 2023, 05:25:41 pm
I hope the two vote pillars of Max and zemaj means one of them is mafia.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: Maximum Spin on March 31, 2023, 05:27:01 pm
At least I am freed from this hell.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: IronyOwl on March 31, 2023, 05:27:54 pm
?

a1s is voting me, not FallacyofUrist. He's voting Maximum Spin.
Derp, got them confused.

I still don't understand what FoU has been doing, though.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: IronyOwl on March 31, 2023, 05:31:26 pm
A lot of players would still have Irony as a top3 pick even if Max flipped mafia.
Which is weird, because I don't think anyone has an actual case against me. I've apparently just floated to the lower top of a lot of lists due to gut feelings or lack of suspects elsewhere.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Day One Has Begun!
Post by: notquitethere on March 31, 2023, 05:46:31 pm
FINAL D1 VOTES

Toonyman -
- Jim Groovester-  [1] a1s
- MaximumSpin - [4] , Zemaj, FallacyofUrist, Irony Owl, Jim Groovester
- FallacyofUrist
- Fluffe9911
- a1s -
- Zemaj - [3] MaximumSpin,  Toony, Fluffe9911
- Irony Owl
- No Elimination

MaximimSpin was eliminated, flipping Vanilla Town

It is now Night One, send me your lists for the rest of the game.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Night One Has Begun!
Post by: notquitethere on April 01, 2023, 08:31:33 am
Reminder for those outstanding: the sooner you submit lists, the sooner I can process the rest of the game.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Night One Has Begun!
Post by: notquitethere on April 01, 2023, 01:15:40 pm
N1: A1s is killed. A1s was the Town Doctor
D2: Fallacy is voted out. Fallacy was Vanilla Town.
N2: Fluffe is killed. Fluffe was the Town Cop

Mafia Team are equal to town, Mafia win!

The mafia team were Zemaj and Jim Groovester

Spoiler: Complete Workings Out (click to show/hide)

Scum Chat (https://discord.gg/eFnGfqBKgW)
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Game Over - Mafia Win!
Post by: hector13 on April 01, 2023, 01:20:36 pm
zemaj was obvscum early doors, did not suspect Jim at all. Thought it was FoU after his weird pivot in the middle of the day, and after that I probably would have went after the lurkers… who were the PRs.

Mafia did quite well NK’ing both power roles on their working nights though.

I think the setup is a good practice area for D1 play, but it does require good activity from everyone to actually work as a game.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Game Over - Mafia Win!
Post by: Maximum Spin on April 01, 2023, 01:24:41 pm
zemaj was obvscum early doors, did not suspect Jim at all. Thought it was FoU after his weird pivot in the middle of the day, and after that I probably would have went after the lurkers… who were the PRs.
A hyperactive FoU is a town FoU, that's why I yelled at him.

Nobody understood this, as usual. :P
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Game Over - Mafia Win!
Post by: hector13 on April 01, 2023, 01:27:13 pm
I thought he was town early, but when he started making his cases I changed my mind ‘cause they didn’t make sense.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Game Over - Mafia Win!
Post by: zemaj on April 01, 2023, 01:28:55 pm
GG everyone, and thanks for hosting NQT!

pro tip:  ITS ALWAYS THE NEWBIE!  ;D


this was an awesome (if confusing) setup, and I like the auto-resolve after intense D1.  That said, I think this is really easy to abuse by scum... vote-weighting is pretty much how we got off that mislynch on FoU.  It easily could have gone the other way.  I'd like to take some personal credit for that, with what I feel was a stellar bit of role-play, but it really probably was mostly the setup.

8/10... would definitely murder play again.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Game Over - Mafia Win!
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on April 01, 2023, 01:38:58 pm
That was interesting…

I suspected zemaj by the end of day. Was certain after the D1 flip.  Never suspected Jim…
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Game Over - Mafia Win!
Post by: Jim Groovester on April 01, 2023, 01:53:16 pm
I did not expect FoU to actually be lynched on Day 2. That's painful. If the game didn't have the auto resolution I think the game looks a lot different and the scum team have a much harder time.

I think I may have underestimated or not fully grasped the impact of the weighted voting on how lynches are resolved, but it seems apparent that the shameless vote gaming that the scum team get to do after Day 1 is pretty potent. Perhaps the voting lists should be posted publicly? That would let the town better coordinate on future lynches and also stops the scum team from being able to vote how they really want to.

I think Fluffe9911 should have claimed Cop. I'm not convinced the role results of the cop or doctor are worth more than a confirmed town or thunderdome situation.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Game Over - Mafia Win!
Post by: ToonyMan on April 01, 2023, 02:01:25 pm
I put FoU above zemaj because I found FoU/Jim more likely than zemaj/Jim.

zemaj/Jim is basically the only scum team that can beat me in this game, oh well.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Game Over - Mafia Win!
Post by: notquitethere on April 01, 2023, 02:09:37 pm
Thanks everyone for playing!

Perhaps the voting lists should be posted publicly? That would let the town better coordinate on future lynches and also stops the scum team from being able to vote how they really want to.
On first blush this seems like it would work better, but also consider this would allow the mafia team to make perfect night kill choices, so it might end up more potent for them. Could be worth a try some time. Though another thing is, if the lists were public, people would have to make them before the D1 flip, which would also make things harder for town.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Game Over - Mafia Win!
Post by: ToonyMan on April 01, 2023, 02:27:17 pm
Wait I don't think that my list logic even worked since mafia only needed a single mislynch (after the initial one) to win the game if I'm reading the thread right. I guess I didn't count correctly being filled with nyquil. I think the chances of me listing zemaj, FoU, Jim, Irony in that order after realizing the correct mislynch math is really slim though. I would be more likely to list it as zemaj, FoU, Irony, Jim if I had to so I don't think it ended up mattering.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Game Over - Mafia Win!
Post by: hector13 on April 01, 2023, 02:29:04 pm
Don’t do hypnotics and mafia.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Game Over - Mafia Win!
Post by: Fluffe9911 on April 01, 2023, 02:34:48 pm
Well dang GG
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Game Over - Mafia Win!
Post by: IronyOwl on April 01, 2023, 03:10:06 pm
That explains why Jim was covering for zemaj's panic attack, but otherwise I had Jim as my second to last choice after a1s (and myself). The only things I ever suspected Jim for was trying to get town votes out in the open (which I admitted probably helped town more than scum, because most information helps town more than scum), and that he was lurking kind of a lot at the end relative to his earlier play.

I don't see a scenario where we won that one.


Thanks everyone for playing!

Perhaps the voting lists should be posted publicly? That would let the town better coordinate on future lynches and also stops the scum team from being able to vote how they really want to.
On first blush this seems like it would work better, but also consider this would allow the mafia team to make perfect night kill choices, so it might end up more potent for them. Could be worth a try some time. Though another thing is, if the lists were public, people would have to make them before the D1 flip, which would also make things harder for town.
Thanks for hosting! Interesting experiment.

I wonder if more moving parts would make the game better or worse. The whole point is to be short, but I'm not sure if it should be simple.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Game Over - Mafia Win!
Post by: FallacyofUrist on April 01, 2023, 03:36:42 pm
Once again it's proved I cannot read players at all.

I will continue playing mafia because even though I'm terrible at it, it's still fun.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Game Over - Mafia Win!
Post by: notquitethere on April 01, 2023, 04:00:58 pm
I wonder if more moving parts would make the game better or worse. The whole point is to be short, but I'm not sure if it should be simple.
It could possibly work with more roles. Here's some ideas:

- One Shot Alternator: Each night can choose whether to change the night of every other alternating powers for the rest of the game, including that night (this could mitigate against revealed roles and make it harder for scum)
- One-Shot Hype-Man: On N1, increases the trustworthiness of one player for the rest of the game
- Even Night Mimic: Copies one living player's role power on target (disincentive for doc to claim)

Role powers are fun and they make the calculus more interesting/difficult, but too many of them can squeeze out scum's claim space, make too many confirmed townies. One way to avoid that is to have either/or roles: e.g. either a cop OR a mafia redirecter-- that makes no one lock town for claiming an uncontested role (like a1s did). But it makes the game a little harder for players to reason about, and harder to balance too.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Game Over - Mafia Win!
Post by: Egan_BW on April 01, 2023, 04:45:25 pm
Could disallow scum from voting after day 1, right? They already have a kill and don't need votes to remain unsuspicious when the game is in auto-mode.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - Game Over - Mafia Win!
Post by: notquitethere on April 01, 2023, 04:56:44 pm
I think they still need to have votes, otherwise it skews everything way towards town, but I could adjust it so that they don't add trustworthiness to their allies. If that were the case, Zemaj would have drawn with Fallacy on D2, but then Fallacy would have been eliminated D3- so more competitive for town, but not overwhelmingly so.
Title: Re: Auto-Mafia - (Short, Beginner Friendly). Signups: 0/7+
Post by: TolyK on April 03, 2023, 03:02:37 am
In.

You get bonus points if you use AI models trained on our posts to play the rest of the game for us.

By the way...