Post by: userpay on November 07, 2011, 11:25:27 am
PC Gamer article (http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/10/31/meet-mechwarrior-online-piranhas-free-to-play-tactical-mech-sim/)
Game Website (http://mwomercs.com/)
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 07, 2011, 11:30:35 am
I predict failure.
Post by: Levi on November 07, 2011, 11:45:48 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 07, 2011, 11:49:14 am
I really really really wish things would stop being free to play. It completely saps my desire to play them.They make a lot more money on F2P games than subscription based games, so I wouldn't hold my breath on it going away.
Post by: Levi on November 07, 2011, 11:54:58 am
Post by: userpay on November 07, 2011, 11:57:35 am
Post by: nichaey on November 07, 2011, 12:04:48 pm
Post by: Girlinhat on November 07, 2011, 12:05:11 pm
Post by: Kanil on November 07, 2011, 01:37:19 pm
Could probably suck, too... but I'd play it anyway because wheeeee BattleMechs.
(Edit: lol, Hunchbacks. <3)
Post by: warhammer651 on November 07, 2011, 03:30:27 pm
Post by: Jopax on November 07, 2011, 04:13:27 pm
Post by: Dohon on November 07, 2011, 06:03:18 pm
Post by: Sensei on November 07, 2011, 07:17:22 pm
*looks at article*
Quote
...going to be a proper MechWarrior game in the tradition of MechWarrior 2 through 4, not a successor to the Xbox action game Mech Assault. Ekman says joystick support is a strong probability, and both call this a Mech sim.Awesome!
Quote
We have a whole editor and mercenary HQ for players to explore that allows them to customize the look and feel of their corporation...I like it!
Quote
...more of a tactical sim and less of a shooter.Sweet! Best way to make it MMO, probably.
Quote
“One of our core pillars is what we call ‘information warfare,’ which basically boils down to controlling the flow of information on the battlefield, whether it be your own information, or the information of your enemies,”...So it's going to be like Chromehounds, in a persistent world, with a structure... probably similar to World of Tanks? Sounds like a must-play to me.
*looks at site*
The recent forums threads all suggest that the game is being handled pretty carefully.
This is something I definitely want to play. I hate the micro-transaction format, I've never paid one, but if anything pushes me over the edge this is it. Especially if they're just doing a tiered subscription format (he said that nothing bought with cash would be a tactical advantage in combat, so it's probably EXP-UP sort of things). I'm going ahead and registering a pilot name, at any rate.
Post by: userpay on November 07, 2011, 07:39:29 pm
Post by: Levi on November 07, 2011, 07:46:57 pm
(he said that nothing bought with cash would be a tactical advantage in combat, so it's probably EXP-UP sort of things).
I've never quite understood how EXP-UP isn't an advantage...
Post by: Sensei on November 07, 2011, 07:49:10 pm
Post by: Hitty40 on November 29, 2011, 08:33:42 pm
Post by: McTraveller on November 29, 2011, 08:58:23 pm
(Seriously. All the effort is in creating the assets, not the engine.)
Post by: bluephoenix on November 29, 2011, 10:31:03 pm
Post by: Hanzoku on November 30, 2011, 02:57:07 am
Post by: RedKing on November 30, 2011, 09:29:46 am
I used to be a hardcore player in the old BTech MUX scene, circa 1995 or so, and we had some awesome large-scale battles within the confines of a tiny ASCII client and a telnet connection.
Post by: 612DwarfAvenue on November 30, 2011, 07:58:46 pm
I really really really wish things would stop being free to play. It completely saps my desire to play them.
Yes, because, you totally want to shell out money for something you don't even know for certain you'll like, instead of being able to do it for free.
Post by: Levi on November 30, 2011, 08:09:52 pm
I really really really wish things would stop being free to play. It completely saps my desire to play them.
Yes, because, you totally want to shell out money for something you don't even know for certain you'll like, instead of being able to do it for free.
When its for free it means the focus of the game will be trying to get you to spend money. This means they usually put in pointless things in the game to make it more boring unless you spend money. I don't like playing a game and feeling like its trying to exploit me every second I play. So yes, I'd rather pay the money for a quality game.
Post by: NewsMuffin on November 30, 2011, 08:23:10 pm
However, having high hopes for good mouse+keyboard support!
Post by: Kanil on November 30, 2011, 08:57:57 pm
Post by: beorn080 on November 30, 2011, 09:02:14 pm
Post by: NewsMuffin on November 30, 2011, 09:06:56 pm
Strange, I'll try it again.
Post by: Girlinhat on November 30, 2011, 09:10:42 pm
Post by: beorn080 on November 30, 2011, 09:34:36 pm
Post by: NewsMuffin on November 30, 2011, 10:57:10 pm
I'm obviously blind, as it is a rather large checkbox.
Post by: bluephoenix on December 04, 2011, 06:43:04 pm
My biggest gripe with most M+KB action games is that they never raise sensitivity high enough! How the hell are you supposed to fight when your light mech handles 1/2 mph turning speed because you can't adjust the sensitivity?!
In mechwarrior online I would rather not have people being able to adjust the speed of which they can turn their mech or torso.
Othewise people with mouse sensitivity 10+ are are allways going to have it easier than people with it set to 2 also it would look really silly if a mech just made a 360 degree turn within 1 second :P
Post by: beorn080 on December 04, 2011, 06:51:48 pm
Agreed. Also, your light mech is going typically 2-3 times as fast as an assault. That makes the turning radius much larger then even a heavy or assault because of the sheer speed. Slow down even a fraction, taking it from, say, 150 to 120, will make a very noticeable increase in your turning. Likewise, torso twist can effectively double your turning speed when it comes to bringing your weapons to bear on the target. Some mechs even have 360 degree torso's, which let them fire behind themselves.My biggest gripe with most M+KB action games is that they never raise sensitivity high enough! How the hell are you supposed to fight when your light mech handles 1/2 mph turning speed because you can't adjust the sensitivity?!
In mechwarrior online I would rather not have people being able to adjust the speed of which they can turn their mech or torso.
Othewise people with mouse sensitivity 10+ are are allways going to have it easier than people with it set to 2 also it would look really silly if a mech just made a 360 degree turn within 1 second :P
Post by: Kanil on December 04, 2011, 07:02:19 pm
Pretty sure MW4 had this though, so I wouldn't be worried.
Post by: beorn080 on December 04, 2011, 07:35:14 pm
Nothing wrong with letting people choose a sensitivity that they are comfortable with, and play the best at. To suggest otherwise is a bit silly. Perhaps you could argue for a turning speed cap, but sensitivity should be adjustable -- not their fault you can't handle a sens higher than 2.There is a turning cap based on the mechs you use, and except for some of the light mechs, you can reach it easily with a sensitivity of 2, 3 for the lights. You're piloting a 20-100ton tank with legs, not a person.
Pretty sure MW4 had this though, so I wouldn't be worried.
Post by: bluephoenix on December 04, 2011, 08:26:38 pm
but in previews it has been said they are using the unreal engine. Whats up with that?
Post by: Flare on December 05, 2011, 09:22:22 pm
Post by: kg333 on December 05, 2011, 10:48:42 pm
My biggest gripe with most M+KB action games is that they never raise sensitivity high enough! How the hell are you supposed to fight when your light mech handles 1/2 mph turning speed because you can't adjust the sensitivity?!
In mechwarrior online I would rather not have people being able to adjust the speed of which they can turn their mech or torso.
Othewise people with mouse sensitivity 10+ are are allways going to have it easier than people with it set to 2 also it would look really silly if a mech just made a 360 degree turn within 1 second :P
In previous Mechwarrior games, torso twist and turning had hard max limits depending on the Mech chassis. I can assure you that if the devs ignore that, they will be butchered alive by raging Battletech fans. :P
KG
Post by: Duuvian on December 06, 2011, 03:45:58 am
However, I hope at the same time it is a sort of tradeoff. How is upgrading torso turn rate for example handled in the books? Or is it pretty much stuck at what the specifications that the base design is capable of for a maximum, as would also make sense? Otherwise the most maneuvarable chassis would be the best to choose, especially if it can be modified to make up for the stock chassis's weaknesses (like weak armament)
Also it would be cool if a lack of maintenance due to not hiring enough greasemonkeys could have an effect on for instance torso turn rate or the responsiveness of the arms.
Finally, I just think it would be cool to be able to play infantry in Battletech. Sure, you will probably get killed time and again, but if you could run around like a normal first person shooter plinking mechs, or manning anti-armor guns, or vehicles for mobility, I think it would be pretty sweet. Especially if matches such as 1 light mech versus an opposing force of infantry were added.
Also I'd love to see aerotech in the game and pilotable, but I suppose my dreams overreach reality.
Post by: Girlinhat on December 06, 2011, 04:29:13 am
I've also tried to play pure keyboard. How the hell do you aim at a running scout using keyboard? I'm sure it's possible, with enough coordination, but it's a hell of a lot easier when you can just swing the mouse over and keep a bead.
Post by: Hitty40 on December 06, 2011, 09:08:31 am
I'm not asking for free turning speed, I'm asking to utilize the turning speed. I played one (bit older) Mechwarrior game where it bottomed out my mouse sensitivity. My light mech would turn about as fast as an assault, standing still, no matter how I attempted the mouse. As soon as I hit the arrow key on the keyboard, it would turn on a dime and dance circles around enemies. This is what I hate to happen, when your mouse limits your mech.
I've also tried to play pure keyboard. How the hell do you aim at a running scout using keyboard? I'm sure it's possible, with enough coordination, but it's a hell of a lot easier when you can just swing the mouse over and keep a bead.
Joystick much?
Post by: warhammer651 on December 06, 2011, 09:12:53 am
ow is upgrading torso turn rate for example handled in the books? Or is it pretty much stuck at what the specifications that the base design is capable of for a maximum, as would also make sense?if I recall correctly, Inner sphere mechs tend to have a sort of hard limit when it come to engine power and stuff. They can be upgraded, but it's usually a pretty time consuming process and the mechs that are upgraded tend to break more often and require more maintenance. Clan mechs are more easily upgraded but less maneuverable to begin with.
Post by: kg333 on December 06, 2011, 09:18:52 am
Yeah. Maneuverability is just something that should be different for each chassis.
However, I hope at the same time it is a sort of tradeoff. How is upgrading torso turn rate for example handled in the books? Or is it pretty much stuck at what the specifications that the base design is capable of for a maximum, as would also make sense? Otherwise the most maneuvarable chassis would be the best to choose, especially if it can be modified to make up for the stock chassis's weaknesses (like weak armament)
I've only played the games, but previous iterations had maneuverability as a fixed function of the chassis, non upgradable. However, you couldn't just modify a Hellspawn to have anywhere close to the fighting capability of a heavy-class 'mech, so it balanced out into a choice between speed and punch. You could choose to boost the top speed on a chassis slightly, however.
I'm not asking for free turning speed, I'm asking to utilize the turning speed. I played one (bit older) Mechwarrior game where it bottomed out my mouse sensitivity. My light mech would turn about as fast as an assault, standing still, no matter how I attempted the mouse. As soon as I hit the arrow key on the keyboard, it would turn on a dime and dance circles around enemies. This is what I hate to happen, when your mouse limits your mech.
I've also tried to play pure keyboard. How the hell do you aim at a running scout using keyboard? I'm sure it's possible, with enough coordination, but it's a hell of a lot easier when you can just swing the mouse over and keep a bead.
Joystick much?
Joysticks are dead, man. They're dead. *sobs
KG
Post by: RedKing on December 06, 2011, 09:40:05 am
I think the old BTech MU* scene were the first ones to tie turning speed to velocity. You turned slowly at top speed, and slowly at a dead stop. Your ideal turning point speed was somewhere around your walking speed (which varied based on chassis and engine).
Post by: SquidgyB on December 06, 2011, 06:34:50 pm
-snip-
Joysticks are dead, man. They're dead. *sobs
KG
Sssshhhh! Don't let my (ageing and horrifically modified) Microsoft Force Feedback 2 hear you... It might give up the ghost and i'd have to buy a new joystick, like *shudders* a Logitech G940.
Actually, no.
Not a Logitech... maybe a Saitek X-65... Or a Thrustmaster Warthog.
Yeah, Mechwarrior on a Warthog stick would be pretty obscene.
Flight pedals for turning, too, none of these "twisty-stick" shenanegans.
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on June 02, 2012, 01:27:12 am
MWO is approaching Closed Beta; I think it will start in July. Application is open and they have been sending out Beta keys.
Post by: kg333 on June 02, 2012, 01:35:30 am
Resurrection time!
MWO is approaching Closed Beta; I think it will start in July. Application is open and they have been sending out Beta keys.
It's confirmed that they're sending out beta keys then? I took a quick look when I got the email this afternoon and they seemed pretty cagey on what they would admit to.
KG
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on June 02, 2012, 01:52:35 am
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on June 17, 2012, 02:56:25 am
Spoiler: "Details on Founder's Package" (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: "Special Founders 'Mechs and Premium Account" (click to show/hide)
Full story here:
http://mwomercs.com/news/2012/05/259-operation-inception
Post by: Shadowlord on June 19, 2012, 07:09:12 am
Post by: Kanil on June 19, 2012, 07:18:07 am
I'm going to assume you don't know/care for MW/BT, so to answer your question: no.
Post by: Shadowlord on June 19, 2012, 07:22:51 am
Of course, I usually ran into bugs, or it was just boring.
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on June 20, 2012, 03:13:49 am
The Founder's Package so far has been selling like hot cakes. I just bought it a few minutes ago and my order number was: 17016.
That means there were 17015 other purchases before I made that purchase. And that's within 24 hours after the Founder's Package became available.
I thought I'd push it here because I noticed Bay 12ers had some interest in MW4 when it was released for free. Anyway, I like the level of customisation of the 'Mechs in MWO, as shown in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPoqjslGcO0&feature=g-user-u
Post by: Shadowlord on June 20, 2012, 06:33:29 am
... also we're going to have acronym collisions when Modern Warfare 4 inevitably arrives in two years. :V
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 20, 2012, 06:40:46 am
... also we're going to have acronym collisions when Modern Warfare 4 inevitably arrives in two years. :VSadly, most people won't notice or care. And people like me who have never and will never play the Modern Warfare series will just continue ignoring it.
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on June 20, 2012, 06:40:51 am
The free release of MW4 was horribly mishandled, sadly. It's a terrible pain to acquire and patch it.
I agree and somehow I could not stand the graphics of MW4. However, it was done to bring attention to MW5, which then got cancelled and replaced by MWO.
Anyway, considering there have been over 17,000 purchases of Founder Package when the game is still in closed beta shows people do want a new MechWarrior game and are willing to pay money upfront for it. I have promoted MWO to my WoT buddies so hopefully we can get a unit (an equivalent of a clan) going there.
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on July 05, 2012, 10:42:58 pm
I noticed my World of Tanks thread has reached its 73rd page and people keep on saying how similar it is to World of Tanks so I think it deserves some more exposure.
Post by: userpay on July 22, 2012, 01:32:50 am
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on July 26, 2012, 01:57:08 am
Source:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TrackIR-5-Optical-Head-Tracking-Tracker-Controller-NEW-/140370917149?pt=US_Computer_Headsets&hash=item20aec2371d
Post by: penguinofhonor on August 06, 2012, 05:16:04 pm
Post by: ScriptWolf on August 06, 2012, 05:33:00 pm
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on August 06, 2012, 06:07:47 pm
Post by: umiman on August 06, 2012, 06:53:40 pm
You could have the best computer in the world, but if you don't have a quad core it's completely pointless.
Post by: kg333 on August 06, 2012, 11:15:38 pm
A word of warning, if you don't have a quad core you really can't play the game as it is right now. Unless you want to play at 10 fps heh.
You could have the best computer in the world, but if you don't have a quad core it's completely pointless.
Really? They've actually multi-threaded it to such a degree that it doesn't run smoothly on less than quad? First I've heard of a game managing that one...
KG
Post by: bluephoenix on August 07, 2012, 01:22:58 am
A word of warning, if you don't have a quad core you really can't play the game as it is right now. Unless you want to play at 10 fps heh.
You could have the best computer in the world, but if you don't have a quad core it's completely pointless.
I have a simple 2 year old dual-core and the game runs as smooth as butter. (Except for the god damn F@%$ing ping I get here in australia)
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on August 07, 2012, 01:30:46 am
Post by: umiman on August 07, 2012, 01:47:09 am
Post by: penguinofhonor on August 07, 2012, 03:18:03 am
Will this stop me from getting in the beta or should I just lie and say I've played some before?
Post by: Mattk50 on August 07, 2012, 04:43:23 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on August 07, 2012, 06:27:04 am
I'd like to provide evidence and stuff but I'm already quite worried they'd pull my account (and my $60) as it is... so honestly the only thing I'd advise is for people to do their own research and decide for themselves.Based on your post I loaded up two old computers, one is a dual core and one is even older and is a single core hyperthreaded. The game ran fine on the dual core and ran... well it ran as well as could be expected on the shitty older computer. Granted I have Windows 7 on both, which may be helping? Still, I see no evidence of what you said at all.
Post by: hemmingjay on August 07, 2012, 08:25:58 am
Post by: umiman on August 07, 2012, 10:36:01 am
Quote
Right now a duo core system is our minimum spec machine but it is also our main focus of concern. It is playable on those specifications and I have tested it myself but it is currently very much a minimum spec type of experience running on low-detail settings. It’s obvious that a Quad core system is the key as even the earliest Core 2 Quad systems run the game very well and it is our goal (since there are still so many out there), to optimize the Core 2 Duo systems to run much faster.
Minimum specs (My setup is pretty much better than this in every aspect, just not quad core):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
If you are in the beta you can just search their beta forums for "duo core" and you'd probably get all the results you need. Information such as this:
Quote
MWO is CPU intensive. While a Core2 Duo does meet MINIMUM system requirements, you have to think along the lines that minimum spec means you really want to play the game even though there will be hitching and some slowdown during gameplay. We will be optimizing the best we can but we can't promise you the world. I would suggest waiting until Launch and trying the game out. By then our advanced graphic options should be in the game and you can decide where to put your money.- Lead Designer, taken from this thread on the public forum (http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/33248-alright-my-pc-is-a-duo-core-2-with-4-gigs-of-ram-and-a-geforce-210-video-card/page__hl__%22duo+core%22__fromsearch__1).
As you can see, it's not a minor concern when even the lead designer advises caution.
But if it works fine for you then you should be happy. Just saying that for almost everyone else, including the developers on their duo core machines, it runs quite terrible. It's so bad it can be easily mistaken for lag. It's not unplayable by any means, just that you'd be at quite a significant disadvantage, especially when fights get hectic. The good news is that the developers have said they really want to improve the performance on that front, so they'll probably do so.
Edit: there should be a major patch today, so I'll check it again later after it patches to see if it's been optimized further. But since we're still quite a ways away from even the open beta, I'm not really too concerned if it's still choppy.
Post by: Matz05 on August 07, 2012, 11:29:30 am
Post by: Shadowlord on August 07, 2012, 11:34:38 am
Post by: Matz05 on August 07, 2012, 11:35:38 am
It works though. Sometimes. If the moon phase is right...
Post by: Jopax on August 07, 2012, 11:42:45 am
Post by: userpay on August 07, 2012, 04:37:52 pm
Post by: hemmingjay on August 07, 2012, 05:47:10 pm
And Founders day is officially live!
For those that don't know:
What will happen on August 7th? Great question!
All Founder's Program members will be granted access to all of their Founder's perks and rewards.
So basically:
Beta access (granted with any Founder's program)
Founder's Tag (granted instantly)
Premium account*
In-game currency**
Founder's Mechs for Elite and Legendary Founders
The Founders Program "Credits" and "In Game Currency / MC" are ready for you to spend at will.
Important: You will be refunded the entire amount each time we patch the game during Closed Beta & once again when we commence the Open Beta.
Once all Founder's Members are in the Open Beta, your premium account bonuses will be treated as "live" and any MC used will be permanently spent.
Please Note:
* The premium account grants you 50% more XP and C-Bills. Even though you will get those benefits while the duration of Closed Beta, the REAL clock will only begin at Open Beta where there will be a final reset of all accounts so everyone starts at the same level.
** In game currency will be reset and re-injected at every reset until Open Beta. This means you can experiment and spend it all with no worries as it will be given back to you on the final reset of Open Beta.
How long will the Founder's Program be on sale?
Due to recent overwhelming demand, the Founder's Program will continue to be made available beyond August 7th. Cut-off timing for the Founder's Program offer will be announced at a later date.
The game is currently in Closed Beta, what does this mean?
Ancillary features are done.
New features are being added.
New content is added on a regular basis.
Access to MechWarrior Online is by invitation only.
All purchases are tracked and will be credited to a player's account when Open Beta starts. (Example: If you purchase 5,000 MC during Closed Beta, your account will be credited 5,000MC
Data is reset regularly.
Balance and tuning are extensive and regular.
Lots of bugs.
Post by: umiman on August 07, 2012, 05:58:08 pm
Post by: userpay on August 07, 2012, 06:17:14 pm
Now all they need to do is lift the NDA so we can brag about our kills...
Unfortunately not until open beta...
Post by: hemmingjay on August 07, 2012, 07:48:42 pm
Post by: Kanil on August 07, 2012, 08:56:30 pm
Now all they need to do is lift the NDA so we can brag about our kills...
Unfortunately not until open beta...
Wait, what? They're letting anyone pay to be in their beta, but then slapping a NDA on it?
lol...
Post by: Shadowlord on August 07, 2012, 09:53:17 pm
Post by: umiman on August 08, 2012, 02:24:13 am
Presumably so that if it is terrible, they're legally not allowed to tell any other potential buyers. Not that I think that would actually work.Wouldn't that mean that if it were actually terrible, you'd hear about it by now? :P
Post by: penguinofhonor on August 08, 2012, 02:28:42 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on August 08, 2012, 04:10:42 am
Post by: hemmingjay on August 08, 2012, 08:19:01 am
Post by: ScriptWolf on August 08, 2012, 08:35:52 am
Post by: SeaBee on August 08, 2012, 08:36:55 am
I still remember enjoying the whole "earn money, upgrade and buy mechs" aspect so much that it got me into Elite. And, later, Privateer ... but I'm getting off topic.
The videos make it look seriously fun. If they keep it from being Pay 2 Win, I can see myself spending a lot of time with it.
As an aside, yes, the MTX software for MW4:Mercs is barely functional. It's probably the most broken thing I've installed in over a decade.
Post by: hemmingjay on August 08, 2012, 08:59:09 am
So it's still Possible to buy the founders stuff today ? I decided to buy
No way to know as the whole thing just got crushed by the excited masses. https://twitter.com/MechWarriorF2P
Post by: ScriptWolf on August 08, 2012, 09:01:27 am
Also does anyone know if when you change a weapon on your mech it changes the look of your mech ?
Post by: umiman on August 08, 2012, 09:03:27 am
Edit: By the way, for those of you in the beta already. What are your usernames? Would be nice to play with one another.
Post by: ScriptWolf on August 08, 2012, 11:30:55 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on August 08, 2012, 12:10:49 pm
im in the beta elite founder, normal name Scriptwolf looking to play with some of you guys :DI'll add you when I get home :)
Post by: ScriptWolf on August 08, 2012, 12:29:14 pm
im in the beta elite founder, normal name Scriptwolf looking to play with some of you guys :DI'll add you when I get home :)
also sort of off topic, also add me again on PS2 im on the NC side :P
Post by: forsaken1111 on August 08, 2012, 01:02:33 pm
Will do, though you could have PM'd me. :Dim in the beta elite founder, normal name Scriptwolf looking to play with some of you guys :DI'll add you when I get home :)
also sort of off topic, also add me again on PS2 im on the NC side :P
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on August 08, 2012, 06:08:33 pm
Edit: By the way, for those of you in the beta already. What are your usernames? Would be nice to play with one another.
Username is Elsior. And I am TrackIR5-ready for this game. :D
Post by: forsaken1111 on August 08, 2012, 06:11:44 pm
Post by: ukulele on August 08, 2012, 06:58:09 pm
What exactly does TrackIR do for this, or any other, game to justify the price?It basically lets you scan your sorroundings just by moving your head, its really of widespread use on aircraft simulators where its almost a must, and it seems its trying to expand onto other territories where imo its not needed at all specially at that price.
Example: Most aircraft simulators only provide one view, the cockpit one, as in real life to keep situational awareness you need to "rotate your head" to look in directions the plane its not "aiming" this is what TrackIR is ment for. Of course in a 2D battlefield and in one with relative slow speeds its not really that usefull.
Post by: forsaken1111 on August 08, 2012, 07:29:03 pm
Or does the TrackIR thing have a display?
Post by: umiman on August 08, 2012, 07:38:25 pm
Edit: I sent friend invites to Buriburi and Scriptwolf. I also hope Hemmingjay in the game is the same as the Hemmingjay here.
Edit edit:
By the way, if you're are wondering where the more iconic mechs like the Madcat or the Shadowcat are, I'll provide a brief rundown.
Many of the more famous mechs are Clan mechs used by interstellar invaders (technically they're just returning home from exile) called the clans. Their mechs are superior in almost every way, and their weapons technology is also far superior to what the regular folks use (regular folks stand for Inner Sphere: the inner section of the known galaxy). Among other things they have double heatsinks, which are basically two heatsinks in the space of one slot. Or a more scary example would be the Ultra AC20, which is essentially two of the biggest cannons (save for the Long Tom) strapped together to smash someone into pulp in one shot.
As it stands, Mechwarrior Online is following a 1:1 day system starting from the year 3049. This is why their website has so much strange RP news dated in the year 3049, but following our days and months. The clan invasion itself happens in the year 3050. Specifically in March. Right now, the clans are invading the periphery and still are not that well known. That's why for now we're using Inner Sphere technology.
As time passes, and as we get closer to March of next year, more and more clan technology will start appearing for us to use. No one really knows what will happen when the clan invasion itself happens though. Some people think that the best players will be hand picked to play as clanners to wage war on everyone else. Others think a special Last Stand gamemode will be used. Another theory is that anyone can use clan mechs, but all the clan mech users will be lumped together and they would have to fight in smaller numbers and at a disadvantage to regular mech users (something like 4vs7). It's mostly speculation, but it should be about then that we will get to pilot the more well-known mechs.
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on August 08, 2012, 09:26:41 pm
But if I turn my head, I will be looking away from the monitor.
Or does the TrackIR thing have a display?
I had the same question before when researching bout the product. But you can adjust the movement rate on screen relative to your actual head movement rate. So slightly turning your head to the side is enough. It also supports movement along X, Y, and Z axis.
Post by: Dohon on August 09, 2012, 04:37:37 am
Clan events explanation
Best summary regarding BattleTech timeline and the Clans I have read. Cheers!
As for me, I'm happy the Jagermech is in the game. I'm a sucker for Ballistics and that baby can pump them out. ... Any idea when the open beta is gonna roll out?
Post by: forsaken1111 on August 09, 2012, 05:29:34 am
Hm... what other games are supported? Its something that interests me but I don't know if I could justifying buying it just for this.But if I turn my head, I will be looking away from the monitor.
Or does the TrackIR thing have a display?
I had the same question before when researching bout the product. But you can adjust the movement rate on screen relative to your actual head movement rate. So slightly turning your head to the side is enough. It also supports movement along X, Y, and Z axis.
Edit: I see the list here (http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/03-enhanced-games/enhanced-games-all.html) but I own exactly two games from that list. :/
Post by: ScriptWolf on August 09, 2012, 05:37:46 am
also so with the 1:1 time line i take it 3 years down the line we will have a ton load more mechs to pick from then next year march ?
Post by: kg333 on August 09, 2012, 06:51:44 am
Hm... what other games are supported? Its something that interests me but I don't know if I could justifying buying it just for this.But if I turn my head, I will be looking away from the monitor.
Or does the TrackIR thing have a display?
I had the same question before when researching bout the product. But you can adjust the movement rate on screen relative to your actual head movement rate. So slightly turning your head to the side is enough. It also supports movement along X, Y, and Z axis.
Edit: I see the list here (http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/03-enhanced-games/enhanced-games-all.html) but I own exactly two games from that list. :/
There's other alternatives to dropping the cash for TrackIR. If you're mildly handy, it's easy to build your own IR rig and webcam setup for about $25 using Freetrack (http://www.free-track.net/english/). I've built one and found it near indispensable when playing Arma 2. If that's too much work, there's also FaceTrackNoIR (http://facetracknoir.sourceforge.net/), although I found that didn't work as well.
Personally, I prefer to avoid giving money to TrackIR. They've had some underhanded practices in the past to encourage flight sim devs to shut out the competition.
KG
Post by: hemmingjay on August 09, 2012, 07:15:50 am
Edit: I see the list here (http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/03-enhanced-games/enhanced-games-all.html) but I own exactly two games from that list. :/
I wouldn't buy it for just one game, but I will be using it on 3 games regularly and 4-7 others occasionally. Really, for me it's for Arma 2, MWO and Take on Helicopters/DCS.
Also, I like the idea of homebrew hardware but for satisfaction not because the company tried to secure it's position(standard amongst hardware manufacturers in every industry).
Post by: umiman on August 09, 2012, 08:25:02 am
im so stoked for this game, im even more so looking forward to all the political stuff outside of battle which players will be able to do and how they will influence the universe.Yeah, that would be what's expected.
also so with the 1:1 time line i take it 3 years down the line we will have a ton load more mechs to pick from then next year march ?
Post by: ScriptWolf on August 09, 2012, 11:52:51 am
also add me im Scriptwolf
Post by: RedKing on August 09, 2012, 12:10:46 pm
I really should try to get in on the beta for this. Anybody know if there's a Mechlist released, or is that under NDA?
EDIT: Oh hell yeah....FRR is available as a faction. I'm so there (even knowing that we're going to be blown to hell in a very short span of time).
On the old BT3056 MUSE, I had a long stint as a scout pilot with the 4th Kavalleri (post-Tukayyid). After that, I was XO for the Smithson's Chinese Bandits faction. Lot of good memories being brought up by this.
Hmm.....might have to buy me that $60 subscription, if that's the only way to get a Jenner (JR7-F was my old ride in the FRR...I'm hoping canon variants are available, the -F was WAY better than the -D).
Post by: umiman on August 09, 2012, 02:51:43 pm
Post by: ScriptWolf on August 09, 2012, 03:50:43 pm
Heh, I'm probably going to go with Draconis Combine myself. What with dragons and all... it'd be a disgrace to my birth sign to choose otherwise.
get online!!
Post by: umiman on August 09, 2012, 04:11:24 pm
Sadly there's no chat system in game. Do you have steam? You should add me and we can actually get this running. Umiman < steam ID.
Post by: ScriptWolf on August 09, 2012, 04:19:45 pm
Post by: umiman on August 09, 2012, 04:52:07 pm
You other guys should join us in the future. :P My founders was a Catapult. Scriptwolf runs an Atlas. If we get enough people we can run the Lyran Scout Lance (http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/48-lyran-scouting-tactics/).
I'd like to talk more details but... you know... Suffice to say hundreds of missiles flew and enemies exploded.
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on August 09, 2012, 06:01:46 pm
Inner Sphere 4 LIFE, all those vat-grown Clan freaks can suck PPC. :P
Fuck yeah I will pledge my loyalty to House Kurita.
And yep I have a Founder's Atlas to run Lyran Scout Lance. :P
Post by: ScriptWolf on August 09, 2012, 06:06:42 pm
also buri add me and umiman then we can group up. im also online now ( Scriptwolf )
also my atlas is basically a heavy frontline gun boat, i have the worst engine so i need rear guard :P
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on August 09, 2012, 08:02:55 pm
Post by: userpay on August 10, 2012, 12:14:30 am
Post by: SeaBee on August 10, 2012, 08:10:47 am
If it isn't violating the NDA ... is there going to be a way for non-founders to get, say, the Catapult? Or are those mechs restricted to founders? My first thought was that they would give founders a special variant of those mechs, but I'm just not sure. A lot of the information I read is out of date.
Post by: ScriptWolf on August 10, 2012, 08:19:01 am
So it goes Class type ( light, medium, heavy, assault) -> mech build ( assault, catapult, atlas ) -> mech varient ( atlas 7JX, atlas L90, founders atlas )
Also please please try and get the £19 lowest founders tier build, we need to get a bay12 team going!
Also I'm a little sad about the founder atlas I'm finding it quite restricting on the weapons I can load up on it :( right now my favourite build is a LRM 20 x2, 1 med pulse laser, 1 med laser, shittest engine in game, and ACX20. Go heavy and slow fuck shit up :D
Post by: hemmingjay on August 10, 2012, 08:20:05 am
Post by: ScriptWolf on August 10, 2012, 08:23:49 am
The F2P model implies you will be able to purchase the Mechs. I imagine many will be available with in-game currency and some special models will only be avail with premium currency. I believe they are going to implement a similar system to WoT.
Nope all can be bought with C-bills
Just mechs are veryyyyyy expensive :P
Post by: Shadowlord on August 10, 2012, 08:31:18 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on August 10, 2012, 08:31:54 am
Post by: Jopax on August 10, 2012, 08:39:23 am
Do you get some basic mechs in your garage with which to make some money to further progress (like WoT) or do you start with an empty garage and a bunch of money to buy whatever you like first?
Post by: ScriptWolf on August 10, 2012, 09:16:16 am
Post by: SeaBee on August 10, 2012, 02:26:52 pm
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on August 10, 2012, 06:39:22 pm
Is there any way to create something like "platoon" in World of Tanks?
Post by: Doomblade187 on August 10, 2012, 09:53:32 pm
Post by: Gamerboy4life on August 11, 2012, 01:31:30 am
If it's anything like World of Tanks, I'll be so over it. Unless they don't have a decent tiering system. I do NOT want to be sitting in a Flea or Uller while the enemy is jogging around in an Atlas or Masakari!
They could like... section it out.
5 light mechs or something to a heavy, etc.
Make it so everyone is not running around with an Assault.
Post by: ScriptWolf on August 11, 2012, 05:39:10 am
If it's anything like World of Tanks, I'll be so over it. Unless they don't have a decent tiering system. I do NOT want to be sitting in a Flea or Uller while the enemy is jogging around in an Atlas or Masakari!
They could like... section it out.
5 light mechs or something to a heavy, etc.
Make it so everyone is not running around with an Assault.
nope in all honesty it does not matter what your running you will always have a chance !, and you need the scouting mechs for support for your guys with the LRM's.
It does not matter what you run, i currently run a Atlas ( founders ) and i have even had my ass handed to me by a hunchback ( medium ) and even a fucking commando ( light ) fucking bastard shot out my ammo caches in my legs and arms :/
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on August 11, 2012, 05:46:30 am
Post by: umiman on August 11, 2012, 05:58:35 am
Post by: ScriptWolf on August 11, 2012, 06:11:28 am
The Jenner is my absolute nightmare. I'm truly terrified of it. And that's a light mech.
This.
in a Atlas which is a assult mech and the heaviest this kills me alot, once your in a turn war you lose :/
and when they get up right close, you lose all weapons apart from your arms, because they are way smaller than you so dont come upto your chest where all your big firepower is
Post by: Hanzoku on August 11, 2012, 06:14:04 am
Post by: ScriptWolf on August 11, 2012, 06:25:59 am
Too bad they don't have melee attacks implemented. They'd be far less likely to get in your face when a single kick from an atlas would rip their leg off.
i know its sort of cliche but i really hope when melee attacks come out i can equip my atlas with a sword or something :P
Post by: Shadowlord on August 11, 2012, 08:55:35 am
Too bad they don't have melee attacks implemented. They'd be far less likely to get in your face when a single kick from an atlas would rip their leg off.
i know its sort of cliche but i really hope when melee attacks come out i can equip my atlas with a sword or something :P
*facepalm*
Post by: Hanzoku on August 11, 2012, 11:16:08 am
and the Hatchetman and Axman models are fun to play, tabletop. Nothing ruins a Warhawk's day like getting an axe to the cockpit!
Post by: Kanil on August 11, 2012, 12:48:29 pm
Post by: Gidoran on August 11, 2012, 01:37:32 pm
Too bad they don't have melee attacks implemented. They'd be far less likely to get in your face when a single kick from an atlas would rip their leg off.
i know its sort of cliche but i really hope when melee attacks come out i can equip my atlas with a sword or something :P
An Atlas? With a Sword? That seems a bit redundant.
(http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/5345/1077674-battletech_brutal_punch_super.jpg)
After all, you've got fists.
Post by: Frumple on August 11, 2012, 02:49:47 pm
Or at least tear off an arm. Improvised melee weaponry is so totally in these days.
Incidentally, if they ever let you strap urbanmechs onto the back of your atlas, I will totally spend money on this game.
Post by: TheBronzePickle on August 11, 2012, 04:27:29 pm
Well, I can't actually say anything, because I'm under a non-disclosure agreement. But I might be inclined to say good things about the game if I could say anything about the game.
Post by: ScriptWolf on August 11, 2012, 04:32:59 pm
As someone who's in the beta, I can honestly say...
Well, I can't actually say anything, because I'm under a non-disclosure agreement. But I might be inclined to say good things about the game if I could say anything about the game.
add me and umiman so we can make a lance! and did you get a founders max ?
Post by: Matz05 on August 11, 2012, 05:27:43 pm
Post by: ScriptWolf on August 11, 2012, 07:40:51 pm
Post by: TheBronzePickle on August 11, 2012, 10:29:41 pm
Post by: Rez on August 11, 2012, 11:15:59 pm
Post by: Gidoran on August 12, 2012, 03:33:33 am
Hey Gidoran! That used to be my desktop background on my old computer. Where did you find that again? I kinda want a higher-res version of that to use again!
Literally, I googled 'Atlas Punch'. There's three versions I found, I picked a smaller one instead of one on suptg because I didn't want to be a dick with size.
I'm looking forward to when the NDA is down because, honestly, I've had a number of cool moments that it makes me sad I couldn't share them. (Hint: Aside from the AS7-D, the COM-3A is my favorite mech.)
Post by: ScriptWolf on August 12, 2012, 05:47:03 am
Post by: hemmingjay on August 12, 2012, 05:47:55 am
better than mwll?
It's a matter of personal opinion, but yes. Yes it is.
Post by: SeaBee on August 12, 2012, 11:06:42 am
Which, hopefully, will still be sometime this summer. Are they still on track for that, or has it been pushed back to a more vague "when it's ready?"
Post by: umiman on August 12, 2012, 11:46:00 am
I don't think it was ever set for release this summer sadly. Maybe you were thinking of the Founder's early access date? That was August 7th.
Post by: userpay on August 12, 2012, 01:35:43 pm
Post by: SeaBee on August 13, 2012, 12:17:40 am
It's going to be a few months more at least until open beta.That's probably the case and I'm remembering inaccurately. Oh well, haha! Thanks for the reply.
I don't think it was ever set for release this summer sadly. Maybe you were thinking of the Founder's early access date? That was August 7th.
Post by: umiman on August 15, 2012, 03:30:29 pm
Here's what I'm planning to upgrade my system to:
Intel i7 2600 3.4ghz
Asus Nvidia GTX 560
8gb ram
1.5TB HD
PREEEEEETY sure that can run this very well... but still not 100% sure. It'll cost about $711 though, with free shipping.
Post by: ScriptWolf on August 15, 2012, 04:26:53 pm
Alright, I was hoping you guys could give some opinions or share some ideas on upgrading comps to run this monster.
Here's what I'm planning to upgrade my system to:
Intel i7 2600 3.4ghz
Asus Nvidia GTX 560
8gb ram
1.5TB HD
PREEEEEETY sure that can run this very well... but still not 100% sure. It'll cost about $711 though, with free shipping.
you have just built my system....... i must say i have no problems with my system it runs all games fine no FPS drop good amount of power to it very good build in my opinion worth buying
Post by: umiman on August 15, 2012, 04:57:44 pm
Post by: ScriptWolf on August 15, 2012, 05:21:53 pm
Post by: Ygdrad on August 18, 2012, 06:18:50 am
Post by: penguinofhonor on August 24, 2012, 05:53:36 pm
Post by: kg333 on August 25, 2012, 08:50:26 am
Am I allowed to disclose that I'm signing a non-disclosure agreement?
The whole concept of paying to sign an NDA has somewhat soured me on this game, and definitely steered me away from spending anything on a Founder's package. I'm not normally in closed betas; is this kind of thing typical in the industry now?
KG
Post by: umiman on August 25, 2012, 12:03:20 pm
Post by: userpay on August 25, 2012, 12:07:34 pm
You've always had to sign an NDA when you were in a closed beta. Just think of it as paying them in Kickstarter.
That's how I considered it.
Post by: Kanil on August 25, 2012, 01:08:52 pm
Post by: umiman on August 25, 2012, 01:57:22 pm
It certainly is quite souring though, being asked to spend money on a product, then not being allowed to talk about it.You and me both, you and me both.
Post by: penguinofhonor on August 25, 2012, 02:28:53 pm
Post by: Doomblade187 on August 25, 2012, 05:35:34 pm
I spent $0 to sign this NDA, so I'm fine with it.
? Please clarify.
Post by: TheBronzePickle on August 25, 2012, 05:49:53 pm
Post by: umiman on September 01, 2012, 04:57:36 pm
So I finally built my supercomputer. And my impressions are...
Wow, so this is what the game looks like when it's not a slideshow. It's pretty interesting that I can barely tell the difference between the lowest settings and the highest, only that the framerate is now through the roof, the resolution is better, and the textures are crisper. That would probably explain why the performance is so bad on lower end computers. Should be pretty easy to fix then on their end.
Post by: ScriptWolf on September 01, 2012, 05:00:30 pm
Post by: Shadowlord on September 01, 2012, 10:52:22 pm
So does this look skinner boxy, or are you all not allowed to say? :V
Post by: Kanil on September 01, 2012, 11:18:38 pm
Perhaps they are. I'd like to think they have better things to do, though...
I think it's too early to really tell how much grind there's going to be, but it's a free to play game, so assume there's going to be a lot of it and you might be pleasantly surprised.
Post by: ScriptWolf on September 02, 2012, 04:14:26 am
I rather enjoy the grind from this game, nothing beats getting exp or creds for blowing someone's arm off haha
Post by: umiman on September 03, 2012, 08:13:49 pm
Post by: ScriptWolf on September 04, 2012, 02:08:36 am
Post by: Dohon on September 04, 2012, 05:00:57 am
Post by: ScriptWolf on September 04, 2012, 06:15:44 am
Post by: Charmander on September 04, 2012, 06:40:39 am
Can't wait for the Raven and all the weight-saving, crit-slot-gobblin' gubbins.
Post by: ScriptWolf on September 04, 2012, 06:43:41 am
Also TAG and NARC come out today :D woo for more equipment, and yeah the next mech is a raven ( for people who did not know )
Post by: Charmander on September 04, 2012, 06:48:09 am
The day ES and DHS come out is the day I can build a survivalist Katapult that doesn't get shredded with side torso shots.
Post by: RedKing on September 04, 2012, 01:50:39 pm
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_liuzbqmmPk1qbvc38o1_250.png)
Post by: Charmander on September 04, 2012, 02:50:53 pm
I will spend millions repairing my XL300 and it will be glorious.
Post by: umiman on September 04, 2012, 08:01:50 pm
No NARC or TAG by the looks of things, but item repair and crits!NARC and TAG will be coming, that one is certain. All tech prior to clan invasions will be included by the time the game releases. Basically this means almost everything except clan lasers, clan missiles, double heatsinks, etc.
I will spend millions repairing my XL300 and it will be glorious.
They still need to put in more stuff for scoutier mechs or command mechs, so those are coming too. Radar, signal jammers, etc. So there is quite a bit to look forward to.
p.s: This game is redonkulously good when you have a computer than can run it at max hahaha. Also you kinda roflstomp everyone since you are the only person not lagging.
Post by: Charmander on September 04, 2012, 08:55:33 pm
At the moment, you are effectively paying 75% of the value to repair a destroyed component - so say goodbye to 3.6 million c-bills for an XL300. I switched to a standard 280 instead - the repair costs are much more manageable.
Post by: Doomblade187 on September 04, 2012, 09:00:49 pm
Post by: ScriptWolf on September 05, 2012, 06:59:08 pm
And everything! Is being wiped apart from founders mechs.
Wow this latest update must have done a number to their servers but they did predict this due to the server having to track individual items and their health along with a few other things on mass scale
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on September 05, 2012, 08:20:30 pm
Post by: scout890 on September 05, 2012, 08:29:56 pm
Post by: umiman on September 05, 2012, 11:19:22 pm
Then I played one match with my Founder's catapult...
Then I did a spit take when I saw how much money they gave me for a win.
Yeaaaah... pretty sure they'll change that amount when the game comes out. xD
Post by: Shadowlord on September 05, 2012, 11:38:24 pm
Naturally, before I agreed to the NDA, I was fully able to say that I was accepted into the beta, was not bound by the NDA, and was also able to read their beta forums. Seems like a bit of a giant loophole if you ask me.
Post by: umiman on September 05, 2012, 11:58:18 pm
Post by: Shadowlord on September 06, 2012, 12:38:15 am
Quoting past me who was not violating the NDA at the time by pasting a line from it, instead of quoting from the NDA now which would be a violation if it is connected to the Beta Test (this is probably still a violation, I have no idea. Hell, I don't know what they actually mean by "in connection therewith" and if it means "connected with" then that would be remarkably broad as you could connect all manner of things to the Beta Test... like all information on your hard drive, connected by being on the same hard drive. They clearly mean all screenshots, videos, comments about, discussion, feedback, bug reports, copies of the game itself, etc):
Quote from: an IRC channel, prior to accepting the NDA
<SL> 'The Beta Test, together with all information, material and content in connection therewith (whether or not owned or developed by IGP), is the exclusive property of IGP (collectively, the “Confidential Information”);'
Post by: RedKing on September 06, 2012, 12:12:47 pm
I need to remind myself to sign the NDA and download the client.
Post by: Charmander on September 06, 2012, 12:32:23 pm
Quote
MechWarrior Online @MechWarriorF2P
@realmechdaddy The only fact you can state is that you are in the beta. Everything else is still under NDA
Straight from their twitter.
Post by: Doomblade187 on September 07, 2012, 10:02:20 pm
YEAH!
Post by: umiman on September 16, 2012, 02:52:39 pm
Anyway, Scriptwolf and I have been raging across inner sphere in all sorts of mechs. I think we ran the entire gamut in a relatively short session.
Post by: ScriptWolf on September 16, 2012, 03:02:25 pm
Also we should try and get a lance togeather for this. With a few more it's joining me and umi
Post by: umiman on September 16, 2012, 03:48:25 pm
Post by: umiman on September 18, 2012, 09:33:28 pm
For those of you in the beta, I recommend you stay away until the next patch (or ostensibly forever) as the devs decided to go the completely other direction with the income levels. Maybe they want to see how many morons are willing to grind 40 games to buy one mech (their words). In either case, don't encourage them.
Post by: kg333 on September 18, 2012, 09:38:25 pm
Quote
Your receiving this email because we made a piloting error. You have just recently received an email that was meant to go out to only all our great Closed Beta testers. So we really apologize for making this mistake and hope you will forgive us.
In order to help with that forgiveness, we have decided to grant you beta access as of this email!
So if you weren't in yet, check your email.
KG
Post by: sluissa on September 18, 2012, 09:49:58 pm
Post by: Doomblade187 on September 18, 2012, 09:57:10 pm
Post by: Kanil on September 19, 2012, 12:34:28 am
Piranha almost seems like they're trying to enter into my "Colossal Retards" tier of game development companies.
Post by: Parsely on September 19, 2012, 12:55:53 am
Post by: Rince Wind on September 19, 2012, 03:12:18 am
Post by: SeaBee on September 19, 2012, 04:33:06 am
Post by: ScriptWolf on September 19, 2012, 05:11:16 am
God damn it just when I was really enjoying it
Post by: Hanzoku on September 19, 2012, 06:08:01 am
I'd even settle for a game with a nice singeplayer campaign. :)
I most likely would have bought it if it had *any* single-player component.
Post by: metime00 on September 19, 2012, 07:39:55 am
I miss mechwarrior 4 when everything was blocky and ran great
Post by: umiman on September 19, 2012, 08:16:26 am
I'm really considering pursuing a refund on the founder's pack my wife got me. My confidence in the developers has been sliding for months.Let me know if you manage to get a refund. I want one too right now.
Post by: RedKing on September 19, 2012, 08:37:41 am
Post by: Charmander on September 19, 2012, 08:42:20 am
:(
Post by: Doomblade187 on September 19, 2012, 06:46:03 pm
Post by: SeaBee on September 20, 2012, 03:50:31 am
Let me know if you manage to get a refund. I want one too right now.I have. Or rather, they've approved it an it's being processed by their payment solution. Just send a message to support@mwomercs.com that includes your transaction number and a brief message explaining why you'd like a refund. They were very polite and prompt.
Once the game is officially out, I'll consider supporting them again -- hopefully by then they'll have some of my top issues balanced out a bit better.
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 20, 2012, 06:16:59 am
I'm pursuing a refund as well.Let me know if you manage to get a refund. I want one too right now.I have. Or rather, they've approved it an it's being processed by their payment solution. Just send a message to support@mwomercs.com that includes your transaction number and a brief message explaining why you'd like a refund. They were very polite and prompt.
Once the game is officially out, I'll consider supporting them again -- hopefully by then they'll have some of my top issues balanced out a bit better.
Post by: ScriptWolf on September 20, 2012, 07:36:40 am
The next update might put it back to normal, before this update the economy was set to extremely high ( which made the game really enjoyable ). If the economy stays like this though ( i will wait a maximum of 2 patches ) then i will refund.
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 20, 2012, 07:53:28 am
I don't see why everyone is wanting refundsSimple, in my case. It's because I'm unwilling to pay money for the game this is turning into.
Post by: SeaBee on September 20, 2012, 09:09:15 am
Like I told them in my request, I'm still interested. I'll still be following the game. If some of the major concerns I had are corrected or otherwise nullified, I'll be glad to send some money their way. The base gameplay is a lot of fun considering the stage of development.
As a final word to this post, I'll say this: they are being very generous in offering/allowing refunds at all. I know that, and believe me, I consider that a very solid point in their favor.
Post by: Charmander on September 20, 2012, 09:20:36 am
Seems like a better way of giving suggestions without diving into the mess of the forums, but we'll see.
Post by: Werdna on September 20, 2012, 09:42:15 am
The next update might put it back to normal, before this update the economy was set to extremely high ( which made the game really enjoyable ). If the economy stays like this though ( i will wait a maximum of 2 patches ) then i will refund.
If the next update puts it back to normal, it will likely be in large part due to user feedback - and voting with your feet and your money is the ultimate feedback.
Post by: Kestrel_6 on September 24, 2012, 12:28:49 am
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 24, 2012, 02:51:38 am
Why couldn't they just settle for a Mercenaries remake with functional multiplayer? I'd hash out a cool 60 bucks for that.And that is what I do not get. This seems to be a game trying to get the buzzwords 'Free-to-play MMO' and 'No pay to win' in there. It just seems to be a cheap way of cashing in on fans. It pisses me off, and because of that I have little incentive to play.
Post by: Kestrel_6 on September 24, 2012, 02:55:53 am
Why couldn't they just settle for a Mercenaries remake with functional multiplayer? I'd hash out a cool 60 bucks for that.And that is what I do not get. This seems to be a game trying to get the buzzwords 'Free-to-play MMO' and 'No pay to win' in there. It just seems to be a cheap way of cashing in on fans. It pisses me off, and because of that I have little incentive to play.
So you say it is 'Free to Play' and not 'Pay to Win' and then call it a cash in?
Spoiler: Image (click to show/hide)
And I have played it, Kingfisher1112. While the idea of Mercenaries appeals to me excellently, this is just so... Good. Apart from glaring omissions (Like non-animated shadows for now) I have faith in it.
And now that this is coming out, chances are that they will make more MW games.
Post by: Duuvian on September 30, 2012, 11:36:36 pm
Post by: umiman on October 01, 2012, 01:11:56 pm
Got to give them that at least, refunding the money for the Founders package without a fuss. Some might call it premature... the way I see it is that I still have plenty of time to rebuy the Founders package if the grind becomes less ridiculous at some point in the future. You know... when I don't have to grind for hours at a disadvantage just to get a scout mech. Maybe I'm just getting old, but no way in hell does that appeal to me.
Also I won't pick the Founder's Catapult if I ever rebuy.
Post by: Duuvian on October 07, 2012, 12:03:15 am
That said all I have to say is that it's VERY unfortunate that the beta for this is going on at the same time as the Planetside 2 Beta. I'm having a huge blast in PS2 beta and I bet a lot of the other would-be testers on this forums are as well.
That said MWO is also turning out beautifully and if it weren't for the PS2 beta I've also been graciously invited to not days past when I received the MWO invite I would be spending ALL my gaming time in MWO. It's also a beautiful game and I actually feel bad for not spending more time in the beta.
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 07, 2012, 09:41:35 am
Got my refund. :DGot mine as well. :)
Post by: Gamerboy4life on October 07, 2012, 11:39:35 am
You are complaining about the BETA.
If the grind got bad for me, I stopped playing, and waited until they fixed it. Which they did. I didn't ragequit and refund my founder's package.
I don't see why there is so much hate on this game, I enjoy it immensely, and this is coming from the guy who hates WoT, it truly isn't pay to win, and when you play with a group, it becomes even more fun.
Tl;dr, It's a Beta, stop complaining, IMHO.
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 07, 2012, 11:41:51 am
This confuses me, a lot.I didn't 'ragequit' and I didn't hate on the game. I sought a refund because I don't like the direction the game is going.
You are complaining about the BETA.
If the grind got bad for me, I stopped playing, and waited until they fixed it. Which they did. I didn't ragequit and refund my founder's package.
I don't see why there is so much hate on this game, I enjoy it immensely, and this is coming from the guy who hates WoT, it truly isn't pay to win, and when you play with a group, it becomes even more fun.
Tl;dr, It's a Beta, stop complaining, IMHO.
To be perfectly honest, its none of your damn business whether I seek a refund or not. As to the rest of your post, none of it seems to apply to me. If you enjoy the game, that is fantastic. Keep playing it, and don't worry about what I'm doing.
Post by: umiman on October 07, 2012, 01:59:47 pm
Post by: Geneoce on October 07, 2012, 09:55:56 pm
Post by: Leesin on October 12, 2012, 08:52:23 am
Is it wrong to want my $70 back because I don't like the grind or the absurd pricing? I paid a significant amount of money for a product that I'm unsatisfied with. It's the same as me returning a funky vacuum cleaner I bought on TV because it sucks. I don't care that the vacuum people are promising a blowjob machine in the future. I'll buy it then if they ever deliver.
Except that you didn't pay for the game, you payed for incentives, bonues, closed beta access, it's a F2P game. Basically you didn't pay for the game in ANY state that it's in, whether it's closed beta, open beta or release, you most likely payed because you wanted to 'play' it, in its current closed beta early version, where the game right now is only a tiny portion of what the game is going to be in the future.
I'm quite surprised they are even refunding for these reasons, like if you went to a shop and bought a game, played it for a while then took it back and said you didn't want it anymore because you didn't like it. But they are a decent bunch of guys so I guess it's not that surprising.
Basically, you paid a significant amount of money for your own impatience, not for the game. Lesson learned? I hope so, or I hope you don't get a refund next time.
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 12, 2012, 09:03:41 am
I hope so, or I hope you don't get a refund next time.Or you could just mind your own business? Honestly, why do you care? It doesn't impact you in the slightest if he gets his money back. If he doesn't like the game, and they're okay with refunding his money, then that is the end of it. You're getting all upset and hoping that he doesn't get refunds in the future... why? Does his dissatisfaction with the game and the company's willingness to refund his money somehow offend you?
I just don't get this mindset. He asked for a refund, they happily refunded his purchase, and that should be the end of it. Do you go out and find people returning products an Wal-Mart and yell at them too? "Maybe next time you shouldn't buy crap advertised on infomercials! You deserved an inferior product and I hope you're stuck with it next time!"
Just sit back, chill out, and let him do what he wants to do. No need to wish him ill or talk down to him about 'lessons learned'. :)
Post by: Leesin on October 12, 2012, 10:41:22 am
Post by: Werdna on October 12, 2012, 12:03:41 pm
Founder's enrollment ends midnight Oct 14th
Open Beta is Oct 16th
Post by: Toady One on October 12, 2012, 08:12:58 pm
Post by: SeaBee on October 12, 2012, 08:50:34 pm
I haven't played in a few weeks, but I do plan on checking it out again once they've gotten some more time to work on it.
Post by: TheBronzePickle on October 12, 2012, 09:01:44 pm
Post by: Charmander on October 13, 2012, 07:55:44 am
Still, I want my DHS and endo-steel, please.
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 13, 2012, 08:52:08 am
So clearly we're not the only ones concerned.
Post by: Mattk50 on October 21, 2012, 08:11:48 pm
Since, I've been spending my time in MWLL again. Going from MWO back to MWLL is such a jarring experience, its really amazing just how much MWO is missing and lacks. The super short weapon ranges and tiny maps, for example. I even made a trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa9agO0tAkI) for the damn mod after being annoyed at the fact that MWO, even in closed beta state, had so many more active players than MWLL considering the state of both games.
Post by: sluissa on October 21, 2012, 08:24:48 pm
Post by: TheBronzePickle on October 21, 2012, 08:39:47 pm
I can't speak on the moddability of the mechs in LL, having never played it myself, but from what I've seen in your trailer it seems to lack sectional damage (mechs go from unaffected with all guns firing to dead with arm shots). Most people, unfortunately, play Mechwarrior for the mechs, and the seemingly rather elitist Battletech community has a lot of hard opinions on what they expect out of the game.
At least, that's what I perceive.
Post by: Mattk50 on October 22, 2012, 05:32:20 am
but from what I've seen in your trailer it seems to lack sectional damage (mechs go from unaffected with all guns firing to dead with arm shots).
Eh, its essentially the same as mwo. Never seen someones arm get blown off shortly before they die? And why would you ever want to get an older version of the mod intentionally? (and the mech part of LL is much better than MWO, has far more mechs and better gameplay, though i suppose thats subjective)
Post by: kg333 on October 22, 2012, 08:53:01 am
Instead, it's a bunch of deathmatches with a UI so clunky that I couldn't even get it to run full screen. Frankly, I thought it was embarrassingly rough for what was supposed to be late closed beta.
KG
Post by: TheBronzePickle on October 22, 2012, 09:01:37 am
but from what I've seen in your trailer it seems to lack sectional damage (mechs go from unaffected with all guns firing to dead with arm shots).
Eh, its essentially the same as mwo. Never seen someones arm get blown off shortly before they die? And why would you ever want to get an older version of the mod intentionally? (and the mech part of LL is much better than MWO, has far more mechs and better gameplay, though i suppose thats subjective)
I'm just saying, I watched through the entire trailer video (or at least most of it). Never once did I see any pieces get broken off. Every single mech that was destroyed went from fully operational to not operational, with no sections being shot off or anything. I'll take your word for it, though.
As for getting an older version of the mod, maybe you only have Crysis (not Wars) and you don't want to buy Crysis Wars, or perhaps the former is cheaper to get. I don't know if that's actually the case, but if it is, it would be perfectly rational to get an outdated version because otherwise it wouldn't be an option at all. Of course, why bother with that when you could just aspire to join the MWO closed beta or wait for the free open beta instead of having to pay for Crysis Wars?
Post by: Mattk50 on October 22, 2012, 02:31:23 pm
Oh, and almost all of the mechs in MWLL have XL engines due to the time period it takes place in (which is much later than MWO's). The ones that dont still suffer from being killed through side torsos, because while you'll take less damage through them, if theres a chunk of your mech missing its easy to stick a slug through there and do damage to the center.
Also, nobody plays the "old versions" of the mod. it isnt even an option because nobody, and rightly so, even runs servers for it. Also, from the start of the mod's development the plan was always to eventually go to crysis wars, its not like anyone was mislead, it's netcode was just better. In any case, its no different from (as you may have implied) not getting the mod because you dont have and dont want to purchase the base game. The fact that its not on crysis isnt some sort of aditional hurdle, its like saying MWLL not being a mod for mount and blade is an issue, in my perspective, anyway. I may be misunderstanding you. I do know people are hesitant to get MWLL because they first need to have crysis wars, however i consider the quality, features, and design of MWLL to be more than worth the cost, even taking into account the free MWO there lurking as an option.
Hope you dont mind all the tangents i went off on.
Post by: TheBronzePickle on October 23, 2012, 02:32:33 pm
I didn't imply that it not being able to run on Crysis anymore was a bad thing, or at least didn't mean to. I just figured that the older game would be cheaper because it's more outdated software.
As for the mechs, how much actual ability do you have to customize them? For that matter, how much can you customize at all? It's got tanks, aircraft, and apparently soldiers (I know I saw the powered armor suits in your trailer, are there normal soldiers too?). Can you customize everything? Do you get to choose what you're going out onto the field with, or are there limits on what kinds of weapons that can be fielded? I'm sorry if I'm asking too many questions.
Post by: Mattk50 on October 23, 2012, 09:37:33 pm
Currently customization is limited to choosing from a selection of variants(theres 256(not limited, just lucky) with more added all the time) with preset weapons, heatsinks, armor distribution, electronics, etc. And they use a pod system instead of crits. Mechlab isnt in yet, its planned though and development is still going strong (last patch was 5 new mechs, 3 new aeros, a vtol, a hovercraft and a tank, updates of that size are rare but theres new content every few months). Right now, theres enough variants for every mech and vehicle to cover basically every viable role. The fine tuning on the player's end is missing, definitely. There are some people who say the lack of a mechlab actually helps gameplay, i wouldn't agree but the lack of it hasn't had an impact as much as one might first assume. Mech loadouts in older mech games (and even MWO from what i've seen) often became homogenous, people all using a few set loadouts. With the variant system and the more diverse "needs" of the battlefield in MWLL, it seems like theres a much wider range of stuff being used out there. This is especially true with the lighter mechs. BA you can pick exactly what your loadout is (this is obviously the simplest though, as its essentially infantry), and more BA types (golem, etc) are actually in the works. Oh, and you can pick camos for your mechs (obviously very important).
the "limits" on stuff you take out are cbill related, rounds being 60 minutes usually means that the round based cbill system has a lot of time to work. The more you do, the more cbills you get in a game to spend on bigger stuff. You can die and buy what you bought in your life, or return to the hangar, sell your mech and buy something else with the money. often only quite skilled players can make it past medium/heavies (some mediums cost more than some assaults, blame the clan tech) giving lights and mediums use throughout the match. There's repair pads, APCs for ammo delivery that also spawn BA, and all that you can spend on too. On most maps there's also forward mech factories to fight over that let you build mechs there when they are under your control, and theres a few maps with airfields that you need to fight over if you want to get any air power at all. Some servers run puretech too, which means clans can only use clan tech and inner sphere can only use IS tech, and there's plenty of assets to support this.
The only infantry is the battlearmor/elementals, the ones from battletech of olde. I doubt anyone would want to play an armorless jetpackless dude with a dinky pistol in this sort of game though.
Post by: TheBronzePickle on October 23, 2012, 09:55:05 pm
But, anyway, I was seriously thinking just maybe it would be worth it to get a copy of Crysis Wars and check the mod out until you mentioned Origin. I'm afraid that I'm not willing to install that on my computer. You have fun, though. I'm fine fighting mechs and only mechs for the time being.
At least MWO's better than Planetside 2, the other beta I'm in which I can't play because it's bugged to hell right now.
Post by: Hanzoku on October 24, 2012, 01:09:19 am
The usual result is you get lasered/missiled/autocannoned/stomped/swatted to death well before that. It's what you get for attacking a 16 meter tall mech!
Post by: Kanil on October 24, 2012, 02:29:41 am
often only quite skilled players can make it past medium/heavies (some mediums cost more than some assaults, blame the clan tech) giving lights and mediums use throughout the match.
You make it sound like light 'mechs are only used by those too bad at the game to be able to buy assaults. Are they generally outclassed by the larger 'mechs?
Post by: Duuvian on October 24, 2012, 06:09:27 am
I think the Raven is the new stock light mech, though I can't remember it's loadout. I used a few personal (C-bill bought) Ravens and unlocked the skills or whatever for both except the final one, which required 3 variants of Raven to exist while there were only two at the time. One of the variants was especially good for customizing; the one that had the extra ballistic weapon slots.
After I saved up enough C-Bills, I bought a Dragon. It now has three ac-2s in it's arm with 210 rounds, an engine appropriately sized for a Jenner, and previously had an ER-Large laser in the other arm. I had to remove the ER-L laser to add heat sinks though, as firing three ac-2s was enough to overheat the design after maybe 15 or 20 seconds of constant fire, and the ER Large added to that made it hard to be practical. It's best when I'm way behind providing support with the Atlases up front. It's too slow to run away and I had to cut some leg armor to fit that many autocannons, ammo, ams+ammo, and now ECM. Also it's very vulnerable to having it's arm blown off, and it's too slow to make it to the capture point in a base attack map.
I think I'll reassign the 3 ac-2s and have one per weapon group. I think I'll use it for a while and accumulate some recovered Star League tech with it.
Post by: Mattk50 on October 24, 2012, 06:34:18 am
often only quite skilled players can make it past medium/heavies (some mediums cost more than some assaults, blame the clan tech) giving lights and mediums use throughout the match.
You make it sound like light 'mechs are only used by those too bad at the game to be able to buy assaults. Are they generally outclassed by the larger 'mechs?
In head to head combat, yes, they are outclassed just as they are in MWO. The difference is that there's actual ewar going on, with narcs, tags, c3, etc scouts have a little more to do than look at targets. And of course, that everyone cant just pick heavy/assault it makes their role neccasarry. Lights are used by everyone in the start. And of course, there are your slower and faster lights with varying styles of armor, speed, firepower. To be stuck in a light the whole game you'd have to be exceptionally bad though. This system reflects that, in fact, lights are worth less than assaults in-game, unlike in MWO where all of that is handled out of the match and its just "he has assault, he doesnt". Its not about grinding, its merit and ability instead. Also, shooting at mechs bigger than your own gives you score on a multiplier, so its really really hard to get stuck in something.
But, anyway, I was seriously thinking just maybe it would be worth it to get a copy of Crysis Wars and check the mod out until you mentioned Origin. I'm afraid that I'm not willing to install that on my computer. You have fun, though. I'm fine fighting mechs and only mechs for the time being.I agree. Which is why i bought crysis wars elsewhere. I just meant that, ever since origin "was a thing" EA has been doing screwy things with prices everywhere. Its available on steam and boxed copies on amazon, etc.
Post by: Kanil on October 24, 2012, 08:18:52 pm
In head to head combat, yes, they are outclassed just as they are in MWO.I have to disagree with this, one of the brightest points about MWO is how combat viable lighter 'mechs are. In head to head combat between a Jenner and a Catapult/Awesome/Atlas, the relative skill of the pilots, the terrain, their weapon loadouts, and the general chaos of battle have far more impact on the outcome than the extra 30-65 tons on the bigger 'mech.
'course, the Jenner's gonna die if it plays stand-and-deliver, or if the gausscat's a crack shot -- but you never feel disadvantaged just because your 'mech is lighter, it's a choice of style rather than a necessity.
Post by: TheBronzePickle on October 24, 2012, 08:31:40 pm
Post by: ukulele on October 24, 2012, 08:51:38 pm
Post by: sluissa on October 25, 2012, 12:14:07 am
If I"m in a light, I don't stand a chance against another light. If I'm in a medium, I usually get my ass kicked, but depending on load out or terrain I might be able to chase a light away. Large and assault, I can usually chase lights away, taking more damage to myself than I probably should, but I've never gotten a kill on a light that wasn't simply a lucky last hit from someone else's battle.
Post by: Hanzoku on October 25, 2012, 01:15:10 am
Post by: TwilightWalker on October 25, 2012, 01:20:36 am
So what era is MWO set in now? I hear a lot of people mentioning ER-Lasers, but I though the game was supposed to be set prior to the Clan invasion.
Prior to the Clan invasion, but after the dispersal of the Star Core by the GDL IIRC.
Post by: Hanzoku on October 25, 2012, 07:34:46 am
Post by: Kyzrati on October 31, 2012, 11:15:06 pm
I actually like what they're doing with the game, though the development hasn't been as fast as it probably should be considering they've already gone open beta yet are lacking features that will keep people around like planned factional battles and more game modes/maps. (That and they introduce new mechs way too slowly.) At least they've finally added ES, FF, DHS.
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on December 21, 2012, 04:27:52 am
Just wondering if anyone is in Closed Beta? Just a reminder that there are no more wipes, so whatever you earn now, you get to keep. Talk about early start.
Anyway the best newbie friendly mech is Hunchback HBK-4PS, packing 5 energy slots, 2 missiles, and 1 AMS. Out of 5 energy slots, four are on the arms making this mech very articulated when it comes to aiming.
Post by: Jopax on December 21, 2012, 04:36:50 am
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on December 21, 2012, 06:37:01 am
I feel the lag is not as bad as before.
Post by: Werdna on December 21, 2012, 10:51:13 am
I haven't seen any actual network lag while playing MWO, other than the general 'netcode' complaint about the difficulties of trying to hit light mechs zipping around. Personally I think that's easily solved by putting the complainer into a light mech for a few matches to see for themselves just how fragile the things actually are. I know it shut me up pretty fast. :D
Burl, its Open Beta now. Closed Beta ended at end of October.
Post by: Rez on December 22, 2012, 12:38:39 am
It needs better netcode. I shouldn't have to lagshoot in a modern game. I play warthunder on Russian servers regularly (I'm in the US) and have to lead less. It's pure guesswork hitting a mechs legs when it's running, even with hitscan weapons. Proper netcode fixes many of the problems most people have with lights. The broad issue has never been 'lag' or latency. The issue has always been that the game handles processing player positions and fire really badly, which is demonstrated by the fun clipping around you do if you run into someone or sort of get on top of a building.
Better scenarios. Seriously. Is TDM so hard to implement without a mechanic that rewards camping? And the latest mode is nothing but assault with more squares. I'M SICK OF RED SQUARES! You could have escort missions, scenarios where you actually have to assault a base with defenses and facilities. They could have even done MOBA with mechs and it would be better. They have so much to work with, but they've done so little.
Weapon rebalancing. Ballistics suck. The MG should deal the same average damage as an ac2. It doesn't. AC20's are basically garbage, even in an alpha build. Every pulse laser is terrible. More heat, more weight, more crit slots, comparable damage. LPL actually make PPC's look good. Except that you can't use PPC's within 90m. Unless you use ERPPC's, which makes sense. TAG doesn't do anything against ECM.
DHS are either triple heat sinks or ~4/3 heat sinks, depending on how you want to figure it.
P2win stuff that everyone will dismiss. Hero mechs provide substantial cbill and xp bonuses. You have 4 mechbay slots, maximum, unless you pay $1.60 a pop. For a slot to put a mech in. Actually buying a mech using MC could cost more than 20 dollars. It gets better; to master a variant, you'll need to own 3 other variants of that mech. with your 4 mech limit.
But it's the only game, other than mwll which is pretty dead, where I can play as a stompy robot.
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on December 22, 2012, 12:55:37 am
The game is still in beta, so balancing is a work in progress. After beta testing multiple MMOs, I can live with it now.
Re mech slots, yes that's kinda bummer that you need to have three variants to unlock masteries, but $1.60 a slot is nothing and it encourages people to specialise, which I kinda of like, because it makes the decision in choosing a mech that you want to master meaningful. YMMV.
I am interested in Jenner, Hunchback, and Stalker myself. However it seems that everyone and their mother is using Stalker despite it being less versatile than Atlas. -_-a
Post by: Kyzrati on December 22, 2012, 01:44:29 am
However it seems that everyone and their mother is using Stalker despite it being less versatile than Atlas. -_-aEveryone knows MW games aren't about versatility, they're about boating! ;p And the Stalker is definitely good at boating...
Of course if it was more canon, less game, mechs would be a lot more versatile, but PGI's at least done a fairly good job there by using hardpoints to limit loadout. A lot less boating than MW4.
The game is totally not P2W. Just join a clan, consistently win every match (which you generally will, being organized), and you'll start making tons of c-bills and XP. I've earned like 10 mechs in just 6 weeks or so, many mastered, and that's only playing a few days a week. I've only spent MC on mech bays to store them all (though really you don't need that many mech bays, since you can sell off the ones you don't like once you've gained your pilot skills). Perhaps making money used to be easier before when you actually had to repair your mech (which they just removed); it was nice since you could make a ton more money when you didn't get shot up much if you were working with your team.
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on December 22, 2012, 02:04:14 am
I like playing agile mech, using HBK-4SP with brawling setup right now. Would love a Stalker LRM spammer one day.
Post by: Kyzrati on December 22, 2012, 02:13:58 am
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on December 22, 2012, 04:55:44 am
Well, you said you're an Oceanic player--so am I (260 ping included ;) ). I think we're still accepting applicants: Oceanic Mech Corp (http://omcmwo.com/). Quite a few members, and dozens are online simultaneously on any given day.
Thanks buddy, may I ask whether they are closer to competitive or casual? My personal preference is like 25% casual, 75% competitive. And I must say I suck @ mech but intend to improve.
Post by: Kyzrati on December 22, 2012, 04:58:39 am
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on December 23, 2012, 01:07:30 am
This game has been overheating my GPU (Mobility Radeon HD5870), though, so I had to lower the graphics settings the lowest I could.
Post by: Kyzrati on December 23, 2012, 01:17:53 am
Kyzrati, I have been recruited into ARMD.Well, that would make you my ENEMY now, wouldn't it? It's all good--should we meet I promise to kill you last ;p
This game has been overheating my GPU (Mobility Radeon HD5870), though, so I had to lower the graphics settings the lowest I could.The game still looks great even on the lowest settings, anyway. I play on a laptop myself, so always lowest settings here...
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on December 23, 2012, 03:24:54 am
And yes the game looks fine on lowest setting, the problem is my Mobility Radeon HD5870 still reaches 85-95 degree Celcius when running the game. Never again I will get a gaming laptop, despite my room being tiny. -_-a
Post by: ScriptWolf on January 30, 2013, 08:49:36 pm
Also any need for a Assault mech pilot ?
Any bay12 guys still playing this ? And how much has been added since.... October last year ?
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on January 30, 2013, 09:05:30 pm
I have been taking a break since December because I couldn't stand the netcode. Last update they added Spider light mech, whose variant(s?) is capable of mounting ECM.
Post by: ScriptWolf on January 30, 2013, 09:09:23 pm
Hmm we can always get a few of use playing again and form a lance ? I do have a voice sever we could use
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on January 30, 2013, 09:18:29 pm
I will be able to play on the weekend, but I am in Oceania and my headset is broken. What day and time do you have in mind?
Post by: ScriptWolf on January 30, 2013, 09:25:36 pm
And well I'm free when ever really, if you add me on steam you can message'e when you are free
Post by: ukulele on January 30, 2013, 09:50:49 pm
Post by: Kyzrati on January 30, 2013, 10:40:58 pm
Closed beta was total crap compared to what they've got now, but there are still lots of improvements needed.
Depending on their loadout, a good assault can easily crush light mechs. I know I love the sight of a light coming my way when I'm in my stalker--it's like swatting flies that explode! If you learn to lead your targets properly, the extra speed of lights isn't too hard to overcome, and any light without ECM can kiss its torso goodbye if it runs into anyone with streaks (I like to carry some on most builds just to make getting rid of lights a no-brainer). Especially like those commandos which go *pop* after just 6 streak hits (only two salvos if you've got 3 streaks! That's a 3.5 second kill...).
Post by: Werdna on January 31, 2013, 10:51:10 am
Some random thoughts on current state vs CB:
- The net lag is in a much better place - ie the light mechs are now hittable by lasers without leading them.
- SRM stacking is the current FTW, making toe to toe brawling a lot more dangerous than it was
- ECM is too uber. This past patch that removed the light's lag shield has reduced the frequency you see ECM a fair deal, but it just does way too much for too little and it makes certain mech variants far too desirable. In 8 man matches, ECM and countering ECM dominates everything you do.
- because of ECM, LRM's are probably at an all-time low. Otherwise LRM's can be pretty devastating.
- still all kinds of instability issues. There's the FPS bug, where you suddenly get a slideshow any time you face a direction where there are mechs. There's the mech lab bug, where it locks up trying to display your current mech (readouts show 0 with moving indicator bars). There are still occasional crash to desktops when starting matches. There's lesser stuff like screwed up HUDs. Generally, I feel like its about 50% more stable than it was in CB.
- UI is slightly improved but still poor. Better mech stats, but still no in-game detail on the weapons and equipment. Clumsy launch method for groups, atrocious social UI (many players have no idea there is an in-game method to chat, because it is so well hidden).
- The F2P part is a little tougher than CB. You don't make as much C-Bills so you have to play a lot of matches to afford stuff, but it feels about right. Trial Mechs suck (horrid weapon & heat loadouts) and I feel bad for newbies that have to play these, but they do make cash. The nice thing is that Light Mechs are cheap, and they can be pretty effective. Easy entry to the customizable mech game, for free. People will bitch endlessly about P2W in any game, but I don't see it here. You'll regularly see $3M Jenners owning the crap out of a $12M Atlas under the right conditions. Extra mech bay slots are pretty cheap and probably the one place a really hooked free-player will need to spend a little dough. Hero Mechs are not even slightly OP (yet, anyway) and at best are just better looking variants. Their 'C-bill boost' is no different than any other F2P game that allows you to pay to 'boost' your xp/gold/whatever gain-rate.
- Frankly the MC to $ ratio is way too stiff, IMHO. I think they'd see a lot more people $-buying mechs if they were 2/3 the cost or maybe on sale for a 1/2 occasionally. They ought to be experimenting with sales to find the sweet spot, but they aren't.
- they are still actively balancing, with near-weekly patches. They don't get everything right but at least they're trying.
Criticism aside, bottom line, it can be a fun game, but find a group. I'd avoid the game if you play casually and solo-queue when you have an hour here or there. Its night and day, the difference in play.
Post by: Furtuka on February 01, 2013, 06:28:04 pm
I have learned that I am terrible at this game!
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on February 01, 2013, 06:47:33 pm
I have learned that I am terrible at this game!
The control is really hard to get into, you'll get used to it. Remember to use "X" to do decelerate to full stop if you need to reorient your mech's facing. It also helps you turn faster too. Treat is as you break pedal.
Post by: nenjin on March 03, 2013, 06:23:39 pm
Spoiler: Text Wall, engaged. (click to show/hide)
TLDR:
Pros- Visually spot on, good effects, proper mech handling and feeling. Fun, tactical combat. Mostly faithful table top adaptation, engrossing mech building, micro-transactions aren't game breaking, quick matches keep you playing.
Cons- Learning curve can be a little disheartening, can't modify controls in-game or setup some mech stuff out of game. Microtransactions and visual customization options like camo are priced kind of abusively. There's quite a bit of grinding. Levels could be better.
All in all I think it's pretty awesome. I can put up with most of the cons. If microtransactions had any more impact on game play I'd have a problem with it. They give you just enough non-gameplay customization that can be bought with c-bills that I can deal. For a game that's captured the essence of Mechwarrior this well, I can take some stupid stuff. When the game is out of beta and they start rolling out new content more regularly, it's going to get even better.
If people were scared off of it from earlier, I'd say check it out now. The balance on all the things that revolve around microtransactions is in a place where I can live with them, and the game is honestly FUN and the matches are quick, which makes the grinding a lot easier to tolerate. As an American, I had great ping...but I did see a lot of 200 ping players, which I'd assume are the Europeans. I noticed few if any bugs while I was playing.
If you do start, I'd advise playing the trial mechs for a good long while. They suck but you can still make kills with them if you are smart. You want a good understanding of the game AND some extra cash for new weapons and systems, before you spend your starter cash on your first mech.
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 04, 2013, 07:20:14 am
Post by: Charmander on March 04, 2013, 09:30:01 am
I would have preferred straight tonnage math, because I find the hard points an unnecessary restriction designed for progression reasons (people would never want or need more than 4 mechs w/o hard point restrictions.)
This is part of the original tabletop game, and has been a feature in nigh on most prior mechwarrior games. If you want omnimechs, you pay for it in severely reduced customisation of everything else.
Post by: Werdna on March 04, 2013, 01:39:13 pm
If the micro transactions are limited to visual customization, how do they affect the game?
You can also purchase mech bays to house more mechs, and the mechs themselves (which I hesitate to call a microtransaction; they're expensive!). The mechs can be purchased with earned ingame cash, if you are patient enough. One last microtransaction is the ability to convert Mech XP (used to unlock traits for a particular mech variant) into General XP (can be used to buy traits for any mech variant you own, OR unlock special modules, which you then purchase as equipment that can be added to any mech). You earn General XP at a very slow rate by just playing, so technically this too does not require money. So currently, the only things in the game that are $-only are mech storage bays, and 90% of the visual customizations (a few basic mech colors are available for ingame cash).
So to answer your question, IMHO they barely affect the game. A large stable of mechs does not give much advantage since you enter matches blind to the actual map, and the game automatches opponents based on mech weight class. The actual utility of camouflage is fairly negligible. One could argue that newly introduced, potentially 'OP' mechs are purchased and used more quickly by the $ crowd, and used longer before they are nerfed, compared to those saving c-bills. However the mechs are announced well in advance and plenty of people simply save c-bills in anticipation of their release. Also, MWO appears to be very slow to nerf/buff any mechs, at least in comparison to Blizzard with WoW. IMHO most of the tuning and balance issues in this game are not mech but weapon-related, and weapons are not purchasable by $. The only major mech-related balance issue I can think of is the ECM-capable mechs making the other variants of their class near obsolete.
My one 'economy' complaint is that the mech costs are too steep, and I am more inclined to grind out a new mech with ingame cash, than I am to purchase one outright. If they lowered the price I would have probably bought quite a few by now. I have far more complaints about the actual game mechanics than the economy, personally. (btw, another reason for the mech hardpoint restrictions is that it gets players to buy more mechs, rather than using the same platform for every build)
Post by: Sir Ratburge on March 04, 2013, 01:56:44 pm
for once I would like a game like this to come out where you just buy it and have the same chance as everyone else without having advertisements forced into your eyes every time you start the game. I know its called business, but it seems like dirty business to me. :-[
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 04, 2013, 02:40:34 pm
I don't like the Facebook game culture companies have adopted - play for 'free' ...but... with a subscription that adds exta xp, pay for 'special' in game credits that allows you to instantly buy overpowered vehicles and weapons that people who fight hard just cant attain.Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here, but it seems that you can either:
for once I would like a game like this to come out where you just buy it and have the same chance as everyone else without having advertisements forced into your eyes every time you start the game. I know its called business, but it seems like dirty business to me. :-[
1. Play for free but at a disadvantage.
2. Pay for the advantage.
If you aren't satisfied with the 'free' play then you can pay. If you can't pay, well you're playing a game for free. Why should you be afforded perks on top of that? Have your fun. If its no longer fun, play something else for free.
As I said, maybe I just don't understand what you're trying to say here. There are plenty of games where you just 'buy it' and have the same chance as everyone else. I mean if you just buy guild wars 2, you can play as much as you like.
Post by: nenjin on March 04, 2013, 03:45:35 pm
1. Play for free but at a disadvantage.
2. Pay for the advantage.
From what I've seen the hero mechs basically just have custom paint jobs. They don't get more hard points than other mechs or, for example, get ECM when no other mech in their class does (that I know of.) The only thing a membership really does for you is spare you some grinding so you can get new mechs faster. Everything else that can be bought with MC is visual customization related only.
I would have preferred straight tonnage math, because I find the hard points an unnecessary restriction designed for progression reasons (people would never want or need more than 4 mechs w/o hard point restrictions.)
This is part of the original tabletop game, and has been a feature in nigh on most prior mechwarrior games. If you want omnimechs, you pay for it in severely reduced customisation of everything else.
It's been a loooooonnnnggg time since I've played Battletech. The bulk of my memories about Mechwarrior now come from the first PC game.
Post by: Charmander on March 04, 2013, 06:57:22 pm
I can't say anything about the first, but I know the fourth had hardpoints and slot sizes, but they also had fully custom omnis. That is a Bad Thing.
Post by: Hanzoku on March 05, 2013, 02:09:33 am
For Mechwarrior Online, the only problem with the introduction of Omni-mechs is that I predict that it will cause all the Inner Sphere designs to (eventually) die out due to the innate superiority of clan technology. (smaller and lighter XL engine, FF armor and Endosteel skeleton, smaller, more punchy and longer range weapons of all types.)
Post by: nenjin on March 05, 2013, 10:18:28 am
How do you mean fully custom? Do you mean designs that were created specifically for the game? Otherwise I remember that MW4 used a slot system as well - laser/ballistic/missile/omni, which generally forced certain mechs into themes. The last Mechwarrior I can remember having complete freedom of design was Mechwarrior II: Mercenaries.
For Mechwarrior Online, the only problem with the introduction of Omni-mechs is that I predict that it will cause all the Inner Sphere designs to (eventually) die out due to the innate superiority of clan technology. (smaller and lighter XL engine, FF armor and Endosteel skeleton, smaller, more punchy and longer range weapons of all types.)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but half of that clan tech is already in-game. Which left me a little confused, if I'm honest.
Post by: Jopax on March 05, 2013, 10:28:55 am
Anyways, the game has greatly improved in the last six months, the netcode is pretty good now and they have really improved the performance, it's actually playable with decent FPS most of the time now :D
Post by: nenjin on March 05, 2013, 10:32:04 am
Post by: Jopax on March 05, 2013, 10:44:29 am
Post by: Sir Ratburge on March 06, 2013, 06:08:54 am
1. Play for free but at a disadvantage.
2. Pay for the advantage.
From what I've seen the hero mechs basically just have custom paint jobs. They don't get more hard points than other mechs or, for example, get ECM when no other mech in their class does (that I know of.) The only thing a membership really does for you is spare you some grinding so you can get new mechs faster. Everything else that can be bought with MC is visual customization related only.I would have preferred straight tonnage math, because I find the hard points an unnecessary restriction designed for progression reasons (people would never want or need more than 4 mechs w/o hard point restrictions.)
This is part of the original tabletop game, and has been a feature in nigh on most prior mechwarrior games. If you want omnimechs, you pay for it in severely reduced customisation of everything else.
It's been a loooooonnnnggg time since I've played Battletech. The bulk of my memories about Mechwarrior now come from the first PC game.
You forgot to read the part about where i said 'I wish you could just pay once for it' <-- You know, a bit like Guild wars 2... its just that I am seeing so many good games offering 'free to play' and buy addons but not a great option like OR pay a lump sum, buy the game and you get all the future updates free.
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 06, 2013, 07:17:55 am
Post by: ukulele on March 06, 2013, 12:45:19 pm
Post by: Werdna on March 06, 2013, 02:32:18 pm
In any case, Assaults can still get humiliated pretty easily by Lights at the moment, so I think the game is currently at a decent place with regards to the value of the various weight classes (with Medium being slightly underrepresented until the recent Trebuchet hubbub). On Conquest, I regularly see Assault-heavy teams lose (badly) because they simply get out-capped.
Post by: ukulele on March 07, 2013, 10:09:57 am
Post by: nenjin on March 07, 2013, 10:24:03 am
Also being stuck in a team with no ECM its a pain, almost 100% guarteed to lose against a team with ECM. By the way i dont understand how to put ECM in a mech, only some can carry it? only the ones that already come with it can carry it?
No, it's just one of those dumb things they don't make clear via a hard point. Nowhere on the spec sheet does it say a mech is ECM capable. IIRC, if it's available for your mech, it should be either your weapons list or one of the others while you're looking at your center torso.
Post by: Iosyn on March 07, 2013, 12:30:44 pm
COM-2D + ECM + SSRM + Tag = Credit to team. I only wish it had jumpjets too. COM-2D is cheap as hell too.
ECM on an Atlas is stupid, though. It's only useful if the atlas stays with the other heavies and assaults-- even then, with PPCs and a tag laser it's easy money.
ECM is still OP as hell though. LRM boats will hardly ever get a lock if they all stay under that ECM umbrella, or they have LOS and a tag.
Post by: Werdna on March 07, 2013, 01:05:50 pm
These are the current ECM-capable variants:
Commando 2D
Spider 5D
Raven 3L
Cicada 3M
Atlas D-DC
Of the Light Mechs, the Raven and Commando are the most common. The Raven in particular is hated by most of the community. I think these two are most common because their missile hardpoints allow them to mount Streaks, which are excellent for hunting other light mechs. The ECM allows them to be immune to Streaks, or counter the ECM on an enemy and fire streaks at them.
Hands down, the current ECM implementation is my least favorite part of the game.
Post by: nenjin on March 07, 2013, 01:16:33 pm
I think that's crap, personally. If the game is inspired by the table top, then it should take the table top's mentality on these things. ECM in table top didn't make missile flat out impossible to target. Secondary systems provided extra bonuses that were countered by other secondary systems. Not: primary system is invalidated by a secondary system which requires another secondary system to counter.
I don't even run an LRM boat but I find it pretty annoying, and with the high prevalence of pre-mades in MWO....it seems like a poor choice of balance when something is so good you can expect to see it in every single match.
Post by: Iosyn on March 07, 2013, 01:24:28 pm
Seriously, TAG + Artemis + Beagle Active probe = a hell of a lot of tonnage and only the TAG will do ANYTHING against an ECM-laden mech-- and even then it still takes an age to actually lock on-- and if you lose Line of sight it's wasted. And artemis, a supposed FCS only works via LOS too, but apparently it doesn't stack with the tag laser? the hell does that make sense? ???
Same with the beagle, gives you an increased sensor range... except against anything with ECM. Yes, I can understand a small mech being hard to spot or find even before we get to ECM, , but having to come to 200m to even spot it for a lock and then getting disrupted at 180m? You realize how fast a light or med could run through that 20m just to mess with your lock? An LRM boat would have fits.
Of course, you could always roll ballistics and ER PPCs and other stuff that you don't need a lock for, but meh. This laptop isn't good for anything but spamming LRMs and running around in my COM-2D.
and yeah werdna that's what I meant-- if people stick close to an Atlas D-DC it can be a pretty scary prospect. PPC ECM disable is 4s, so even then you might JUST be able to get a lock and fire before it wears off. Of course, your missiles would then be unguided unless you got another lock. and indeed nenjin. ECM is a pretty hard LRM counter right now, flat out invalidates them unless you fire unguided-- which for LRMs means a miss, usually. You could always run SRMs, but why should heavies and assaults have to change entire builds to deal with what should be a secondary or scouting ability?
Post by: Werdna on March 07, 2013, 02:01:25 pm
Post by: nenjin on March 07, 2013, 02:11:20 pm
Post by: Iosyn on March 07, 2013, 04:11:26 pm
(on a laptop. i had to do some optimizing just to get the game playable lol. trying to turn to get those freakin lights annoys me no end.)
Also how have they tuned LRMs? I've not noticed much difference, though maybe I joined after any boost. I routinely get about 3 kills a match with 400-600 dmg as long as I don't rambo in. that's 2 LRM15s with artemis. honestly, I wouldn't mind LRMs doing less damage either, as long as they aren't completely invalidated by ECM.
Post by: Neonivek on March 07, 2013, 04:29:13 pm
It is unfortunately as I found it a "Freemium" game. So I kinda stopped playing this game immediately. I just don't have the kinda money to pay to make this game playable.
Post by: nenjin on March 07, 2013, 04:37:35 pm
Post by: Neonivek on March 07, 2013, 04:49:21 pm
Eh, to each his own. But frankly I think if you can't enjoy/succeed at this game without money, you need to go back to Mech Piloting School.
It is because the game is designed around that. It isn't "To each his own". If you do not pay money you cannot advance past a certain point (or the game just becomes extremely unfeasable) namely because you HATE to buy storage space.
And you have to buy storage space because you need to gain skills
And to even buy those skills you need a certain number of the same mech. Yet you start off with less storage space to get all the skills (though I don't know if you can sell mechs and it will still count you as having the right amount).
If I know there is no future for me and this game unless I pay money and I am not willing to pay money... I stop. This is why I stopped Playing Dungeon Fighter Online. I COULD continue but the mechanics it adds that makes not paying harder drove me away.
It was fun though and I even outdamaged my team a few times.
Post by: Iosyn on March 07, 2013, 04:53:47 pm
the only part I don't like-- which I think we all agree on-- is the 4 mech limit (and unlocking elite skills means you need to play 3 mechs of a single type) but garage slots are in world of tanks too (and god knows I've got some in there lol.)
Then again, I've been in WoT so long and they usually give out free special tank versions now and then-- with a free garage slot too.
As it's still a beta I'm not going to spend money on this game yet, but when we're out of beta I'll be tempted.
Post by: nenjin on March 07, 2013, 04:56:30 pm
Post by: Werdna on March 07, 2013, 05:46:14 pm
I just don't understand how so many Other Gamers can afford, play, and comment on nearly every purchasable game under the sun; yet when it comes to a F2P game suddenly the knives are out and its a goddamn financial outrage if anything in the game forces them to even consider paying a dirty dime during the hours of free game play that they get out of it.
I'm still waiting for them to rethink their exchange rate. ~$30 for a piece of digital property is fucking absurd
This I totally agree with. The mech prices are just obnoxious, its just easier to earn c-bills and pay that way. I just don't get their thinking.
Just for full disclosure - I have the $60 Founder's package (the mid-priced one). I currently have almost exactly 10,000 MC (~$40) of the original 20,000 MC the Founder's package gave me; I think I have 5 days left on my Premium time. So to me I've already 'bought' the game, and already have gotten as many hours of enjoyment out of it as I normally get out of a good $60 AAA title, and still have not tired of the game. That has made it a bargain, even as a 'beta' product, and the fact that it is F2P to me means that I can continue to look forward to much more content.
Post by: Zyxl on March 07, 2013, 06:33:45 pm
I keep thinking I'd like to try MWO, but then lag shields, c-bills, grind-2-unlock, etc. I've heard varied opinions about how bad the pay-2-win is regarding how long it takes to grind useful credit, to how intentionally useless starting unlocks are. Reading a bit through this thread, it sounds like it's better than it was?
Then I think, oh! I'll reinstall MW4 Mercs and do some quick matches with a few of my Steam friends I used to play with- oh right. MekTek dropped MW4 to beg for money to revive some other Mech series, then removed all MW4 downloads and support. Not a huge loss, given their proprietary client sucked, but the all-in-one patches and content was nice.
Is the beta close enough to a released product regarding issues/balance that I should consider getting into it, or are there still significant enough things that you'd recommend I hold off until later? I feel like I'm going to regret not enjoying the game before consumables. Purchasable cooling and artillery/air strikes. Really?
Post by: nenjin on March 07, 2013, 06:51:39 pm
Quote
Is the beta close enough to a released product regarding issues/balance that I should consider getting into it...
I'd say so. For me, if the game weren't fun to play, period, everything else that detracts from it would have made me swear it off. But it's fun, even on the shitty trial mechs. (Which aren't all actually shitty. As I said above, when you know what you're doing, you can easily make kills in the trial mechs, assuming you're not going up against a fully decked out premium player who has been there since alpha.) If the game weren't fun to play, even when losing, the grinding c-bills, the premium perks, the nickel and diming....would all be intolerable to me. But the game is fun, and quick!, which makes all the grinding and failure less irritating/galling.
I'm not looking forward to what consumables will do to the game, but I feel it's probably, in the end, going to be fairly minor. I don't doubt you'll run into a pre-made that will just loltillery you to death before you can do anything...but they'll probably be the exception.
It's really the coolant flush I object to the most. Heat management has always been a core part of your strategy in MW. To be able to buy a consumable that lets you ignore the heat rules when it's convenient for you is a bridge too far. Especially if that coolant flush is the thing that makes the difference between having a fair fight and getting completely destroyed by another mech.
Post by: Kanil on March 07, 2013, 07:00:26 pm
*still waiting for them to unnerf SPLs*
Post by: nenjin on March 07, 2013, 07:42:55 pm
As he sees it, Coolant Flush will give you, at best, 1 extra alpha strike in a 60 second period without overheating. When you factor in everything else going on, it's not a huge advantage. If the impact is that minimal, I can live with some goob paying good money for an advantage like that.
Post by: Gamerboy4life on March 07, 2013, 09:03:41 pm
Personally, I'm a fan of the mechwarrior series, and I'm begging for a MW4: Mercenaries remake or the like, and I bought one of the founders packages.
Really disappointed with this game, though. But it seems like I didn't miss much not playing it for nigh on 6~ months.
Post by: Iosyn on March 08, 2013, 12:18:35 pm
As for MWO The Elite perks aren't that gamebreaking, just lets you squeeze a bit more performance out of your mech. Coolant flush for example, one extra alpha per 60s isn't much-- then again, it all depends on what you're currently running as a setup. As I've said before, that COM-2D setup has no need for heatsinks (although I did manage to overheat it once firing nothing but SSRMs, which was a laugh. Half of the time the game is so laggy I can't even get a lock as it is lol.)
Speed Tweak is very, very nice though. Again, depending on what engine you're running you can even get heavy mechs up to ridiculous speeds.
Post by: Charmander on March 09, 2013, 08:48:22 am
On the topic of Coolant Flush, here's a dude on the MWO math'ing it. I didn't check his math: http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/102848-some-math-on-coolant-flush/
As he sees it, Coolant Flush will give you, at best, 1 extra alpha strike in a 60 second period without overheating. When you factor in everything else going on, it's not a huge advantage. If the impact is that minimal, I can live with some goob paying good money for an advantage like that.
The issue a lot of people have is that a) the dev team basically said, "we're not putting in coolant flush" and b) it paves the way to do shit like golden AC ammo or UAC ammo that magically doesn't jam or something. People don't want that.
They have made massive, massive improvements in the last six months - hell, without the announcement the implementation of the first half of host state rewind is fairly fucking big, and has done a lot to remove lagshield vs. lasers as I understand.
Post by: SquatchHammer on March 15, 2013, 10:17:42 pm
SO off to the idea of a Merc/Clan of Bay 12 we will need a leader (IM NOT A LEADER JUST A SENTIENT BEING THAT CARRIES HEAVY WEAPONS!!) and there probably will be a choice on the two if they are trying to stay within the story. So I want to be part of the Bay 12 Mercs because I'm an -fing freeborn and I like it!!! Also we need a teamspeak channel for this because it would be fun to bring the magma and the weaponization of the hula girls...
Post by: Werdna on August 16, 2013, 04:24:23 pm
They've finally introduced 12v12 combat. IMHO, it's fun as hell, but YMMV. Some folks feel its too crazy on the smaller maps, but personally I'll take nonstop action over trudging 3 minutes before seeing your first mech. Some folks on lower end machines reported lag with 12, but after recent patches I've heard less. Pre-mades can drop as 2-4, or 12. 12v12 has not eliminated the problem of pubbies playing premades, but it has diluted it somewhat. The ELO system seems to be fairly effective, most of the time. However, the nature of a game with no respawning means that the first team to lose mechs is generally going to snowball into a bad defeat, and 12v12 makes it more noticeable. But hey, quicker matches just mean more matches, and it makes the close matches all the sweeter.
Launch/main UI is largely unchanged. Still the same clunky Ready/Launch interface, the same crappy chat interface, the easy to miss 'invite' notification. If you hated it then you'll hate it now. The mech lab itself is improved but still clunky. In-game UI however I think is pretty decent with some nice improvements.
Weapon balance is probably at its best point. PPC stacking now leads to huge heat penalties. LRM's and SRM's seem to be at a sweet spot where each are deadly under certain conditions, but smart piloting can reduce their effectiveness. Even MG's are a fair use of tonnage. The laser family are probably weakest at the moment, and PGI has acknowledged it.
ECM has been rightfully nerfed. Beagle and TAG are now effective counters to the nastier features of ECM. It's still a worthwhile edge, but with the various counters it no longer overwhelms matches.
Mech balance is pretty decent, while some mechs are favored more than others you'll still see virtually all of them over a series of games. If there are any complaints about mech balance, it is a usually question of mech classes - assaults are still predominant (but larger maps are shifting this dynamic towards heavies), lights still seem to have a little bit of a magical lag shield around them (but much less so than in prior versions).
Slope changes were introduced, to generally negative reaction. You slow down and even stop on the steeper map slopes, which makes sense but plays in a frustrating way. Expect lots of sliding around trying to find the magical angle to get up a steep slope that you previously had no issue with. (on a personal note, this change only entrenched my dedication to jump-capable mechs)
New maps are a bit disappointing. The latest, the Terra Therma volcano map, is beautiful but frankly the worst multiplayer map I can recall in a game in a long time. It is obnoxiously large, so large that 12 mechs can easily pass the other 12 mechs on their way to each others bases, and never see each other. Despite the size, the map feels heavily constricted, forcing mechs through narrow chokepoints, so when you do encounter the other team you'll spend a lot of it firing into your teammates' back or vice versa. The other recent maps, Tourmaline and Arctic Bigass Map (name escapes me), are much better off for 12v12 action, but only Tourmaline really feels much fun to play. It has the right blend of openness plus cover, IMHO. Likewise for Canyon, but Canyon suffers from the new slope changes. If any map makes you grumble why you didn't go for JJ's in your mech, it's that one.
Game modes are still the same with nothing new planned any time soon. They've greatly increased cap times, which has greatly reduced the "back-capping" phenomenon that ruins the game, but at the same time makes capping a little bit tedious leading to 'Stand still at a base for one minute, or go hunt mechs?' decisions. Overall I like the change, but would prefer to see nodes fought over at the center of maps instead of in the rear.
Economy still needs work. Consumables seem to be a bust - I never see consumables used, at least in public play. With 12v12 matches you earn less c-bills now than in 8v8, however, so the grind has gotten longer. Lots of complaints there, it's possible they may tune that up. However, there is still little evidence of P2W taking over. My biggest complaint on that front is the extremely expensive modules that require GXP to unlock (free players must play a ridiculous amount to build the 5000-15000 GXP needed for just one) and mucho c-bills to purchase (~6million). Modules give players a decent edge - particularly the newest one, Seismic, which was practically a wall-hack in usefulness until it got nerfed. Even in its nerfed state, it's an indispensable module to have. Hero mechs ($$) remain pretty balanced with their 'free' counterparts.
Speaking of Seismic, and the map Terra Therma: these were such horrible implementations that I really worry about how the dev team vets new ideas. Basic play-testing should have revealed Terra Therma's problems with size and constriction. Basic play-testing should have revealed Seismic to be ridiculously more useful and powerful than any other module. While PGI has demonstrated a decent track record at balancing problems, the fix schedule has proven to be pretty glacial. ECM took forever to balance, Seismic went months before tuning. Terra Therma is so bad that for the first time, I wished for the option to exclude maps to launch into.
Stability - I play with 3 others regularly. One buddy and I never crash. One buddy crashes out once every three matches or so. The last guy on rare occasions disconnects at match start (he has a dodgy connection) and we haven't seen that issue in a few patches.
Overall though the game is still a lot of fun. I'm often surprised at the disparity between this thread and Planetside 2, which I think is just as flawed (and fun) as this one.
Anyway, hope this summary of changes was helpful. Happy hunting.
Post by: Kyzrati on August 16, 2013, 04:34:18 pm
I'd comment more, but you said it all!
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on August 16, 2013, 04:40:21 pm
Post by: Kyzrati on August 16, 2013, 04:45:03 pm
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on August 16, 2013, 05:01:35 pm
Post by: Werdna on August 16, 2013, 05:10:22 pm
Have they fixed the netcode yet? Us Oceanic players had really high ping; it's nearly impossible to hit fast moving mechs.
I know they are still actively working on it, too. They introduced a change called Host State Rewind that reduced that problem quite a bit, but they also acknowledge that it still needs further tuning. There seems to be an issue with 'unregistered' hits still. I never notice it, but my buddy with the spotty connection does. That strikes me as a dropped packet issue, and not latency however.
Lights are much easier to hit than they used to be in early MWO, but still a tough shot. Even when you hit they seem to take less damage than your weapon should have done, and I sometimes wonder if this is a secret, intentional 'balancing' to ensure they have some holding power in matches.
Post by: nenjin on February 22, 2014, 01:54:39 pm
THIS weekend, if you win 5 matches in MWO, you get a free Centurion CN9-A(C), a 50 ton champion mech and mech bay along with it.
https://mwomercs.com/news/2014/02/791-5-wins-for-free-mech
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on February 22, 2014, 06:46:30 pm
EDIT: Wow, 16 patches to go before I can play. >_>
Post by: nenjin on February 22, 2014, 07:21:45 pm
Post by: etgfrog on February 22, 2014, 07:24:05 pm
Post by: Kyzrati on February 22, 2014, 07:30:58 pm
I spend most of my matches these days running a non-ECM Jenner, and generally kill at least a third of the enemy team myself, doing 700 damage in an average game. Trust me, you don't need ECM.
$500 for clan packs is crazy, but then a lot of older guys with plenty of money play this game. You should have seen what the deal was originally: You only got ONE mech for $500. Now you at least get an entire pack.
Post by: Rez on February 22, 2014, 07:46:31 pm
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on February 22, 2014, 07:49:54 pm
25 patches here...looked at the clan stuff...I honestly think they have gone off the deep end. 500$ is the type of price tag I usually see on web browser game...I also remembered why I quit this originally...if your not running an ecm mech, then your not playing optimally...
This game and Star Citizens are probably the most cash I've spent on a single game. Ironically, I have most value from more relaxing games due to limited free time. Back to the $20 Banished.
Post by: Kyzrati on February 22, 2014, 07:52:35 pm
That's some serious effort to see silver linings.I was just pointing it out for comparitive reasons since it's pretty funny. I bought into Founders just to support the game before it launched, but I'd never spend another penny it (already more than I've ever spent on any game, ever...).
It's nice that some people do have that money and will spend it, since they have to keep the game going somehow and the mechs you can buy don't give any P2W advantages, so why not?
Post by: etgfrog on February 22, 2014, 08:53:21 pm
ECM is no longer *that* amazing since they nerfed it somewhat. You'd still want to have at least *one* on your team (and you often do) if the enemy has a lot of missiles, but you can do fine without one.so after 3 matches...all 3 matches with 0 ecm on my team, enemy team having 2-3 mechs with ecm, lost all 3 by a good margin, for a cordinated team, ecm is a waste, for a pub, its still as broken as it used to be since even a single ecm mech will cordinate pubs to gather around the ecm mech and stay together.
I spend most of my matches these days running a non-ECM Jenner, and generally kill at least a third of the enemy team myself, doing 700 damage in an average game. Trust me, you don't need ECM.
$500 for clan packs is crazy, but then a lot of older guys with plenty of money play this game. You should have seen what the deal was originally: You only got ONE mech for $500. Now you at least get an entire pack.
Post by: Kyzrati on February 22, 2014, 09:02:25 pm
Post by: etgfrog on February 22, 2014, 09:31:44 pm
There are too many factors at play now to blame ECM alone. The game definitely still has a broken matching system that leads to one-sided battles, regardless of any specific tech. But if you don't like fighting against mechs under ECM cover, just pop a UAV! Any mech can equip one of those, and they can really turn the tide of battle when called to the right position.my last match after getting 1 kill, 2 assists and 5 spot assists gave me 55k cbills, a uav costs 40k. >:(
Post by: Kyzrati on February 22, 2014, 09:46:54 pm
Post by: etgfrog on February 23, 2014, 12:06:56 am
Post by: Kyzrati on February 23, 2014, 12:18:04 am
When LRMs work really well are when you have a coordinated team, but then everything works better, doesn't it? ;) With pugs I tend to steer towards builds that can go it alone when necessary, or at least deal with multiple different situations. If you're really bent on using your LRMs, jump on a Teamspeak server (there are some public ones, I believe) and join a group.
Flamers are never going to be very viable from a strategic perspective since you essentially incapacitate yourself within point blank range of the enemy, just to make their heat go up. Okay, even if that prevents them from doing much you're still not being very effective since you can blow mechs away in much less time with proper aim. You can already do eight or more flamers on some mechs, but it's a waste of a mech. One of the new Firestarter light mechs can carry eight, much more useful than on a larger mech like the Nova, but still far less effective than lasers!
Post by: etgfrog on February 23, 2014, 04:40:24 am
Post by: Kyzrati on February 23, 2014, 05:40:51 am
But I can understand your issue because the new UI is complete nonsense. They just recently finally replaced the old one, the purpose being to "help new players", but honestly the new one is EVEN MORE confusing. Designing and putting together mechs used to actually be somewhat fun; now it's so damn annoying I don't bother--I just use my old ones. They need to get someone who actually understands GUIs to design one. Getting access to information when you need it is difficult, any action requires numerous steps, and putting together a mech requires so much clicking now. Ugh. [/rant]
Post by: etgfrog on February 23, 2014, 05:52:00 am
Post by: Kyzrati on February 23, 2014, 06:03:34 am
Post by: etgfrog on February 23, 2014, 06:12:18 am
Post by: Kyzrati on February 23, 2014, 06:19:21 am
Post by: Werdna on February 23, 2014, 12:55:11 pm
Likewise, I've only spent the initial Founder's money. I think the Mech prices are utterly ridiculous (and I say that as a well paid professional, and a lifelong BattleTech geek). However, none of the 'pay' mechs are 'win'. You can do quite well without paying a dime, but your c-bill earn rate will be glacial.
My best advice is to find a mech chassis you adore and consider buying ($) its hero mech. Then live in that mech and use the hero's +30% c-bill gain to earn your mechs and engines.
XL's can be a quick ticket to the slag heap if you're not careful. I run one on my Cat, because it has virtually no side torsos. Cat's die to CT, almost every time, so the XL has no drawback in a Cat (your barn-sized CT, OTOH...). Victors likewise have small XL friendly side torsos, but Atlas and Awesome have large side torso's. Running an XL in those is very risky.
Post by: Kyzrati on February 23, 2014, 07:46:44 pm
My best advice is to find a mech chassis you adore and consider buying ($) its hero mech. Then live in that mech and use the hero's +30% c-bill gain to earn your mechs and engines.This is very sound advice. If you plan to play a lot, find a hero mech that suits your style and it'll really boost your c-bill gains. You only really need one as long as it's both a good mech and one you will enjoy going back to a lot. I highly recommend the Firebrand Jaegermech if you're into ballistics/heavies.
XL's can be a quick ticket to the slag heap if you're not careful. I run one on my Cat, because it has virtually no side torsos. Cat's die to CT, almost every time, so the XL has no drawback in a Cat (your barn-sized CT, OTOH...).Yeah, don't use an XL in a hunchback--you'll die a lot quicker. Of course, if you're an LRM boat XL is less of a risk, but honestly LRM hunchbacks are not very effective mechs in the first place.
Post by: etgfrog on February 23, 2014, 11:06:38 pm
Yeah, don't use an XL in a hunchback--you'll die a lot quicker. Of course, if you're an LRM boat XL is less of a risk, but honestly LRM hunchbacks are not very effective mechs in the first place.I think your confusing them with me, didn't see any mention of hunchback from werdna, anyways, is there an easy way of seeing the armament capabilities of the mechs in game?
Post by: Kyzrati on February 23, 2014, 11:26:50 pm
There are lots of online references, but some of the nice ones I've use in the past are this collection of charts (http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/75141-online-mechlab-maps-stats-and-data-13268/) and this site (http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab) where you can design loadouts online. FAR better than what PGI has managed to do on their own...
Post by: Hanzoku on February 24, 2014, 02:16:03 am
I have to say that while I didn't think my computer was that bad, MWO definately disagrees. To get any sort of playable framerate, I have to run the game in a window and on low settings. Anything else and it starts lagging all over the place. I'm tempted to blame it on bad programming though, since I don't get the same problems on modern shooters.
Either way, I've got a shiny Centurion for free.
Post by: Kyzrati on February 24, 2014, 02:22:19 am
Congratulations on the new mech--pretty good deal...
Post by: Wardo on February 24, 2014, 08:42:41 am
Post by: nenjin on February 24, 2014, 10:12:50 am
Post by: etgfrog on February 24, 2014, 02:57:24 pm
Machine guns and SRM Streaks to rear armor, I suppose.no...that is a quick way of killing a mech, which doesn't give tons of damage, being able to shoot constantly and hit enemies is how you get that much, best I've gotten is 450 with a dual ac5 hunchback.
Post by: nenjin on February 24, 2014, 03:07:08 pm
Post by: Kyzrati on February 24, 2014, 05:27:50 pm
How does one get 700 damage done in a round?
700 is average. I can do upwards of 1,000 in my 35-ton Jenner D. With a speed of 150kph you are really hard to hit, especially while constantly ducking in and out of cover from unexpected angles and directions (JJ help). Even better while fighting at short range for maximum damage potential.
Jenner builds can have an alpha strike in the 30-40 range, which is as good as many mediums/heavies who can't survive direct combat as long because they're slow by comparison. Streaks are good for guaranteed hits on light mechs, but they're *not* good enough if you really want to take down bigger mechs. (They used to be much better, but after the last nerf no longer always hit the CT regardless of angle.) Calculate it out: Say you hit for only 25 damage per volley, then you only have to hit 30 times in a match to reach 750. Say a match lasts 7 minutes (pretty average), and the first 2 of that are maneuvering, so in 5 minutes you'd have to hit someone every 12 seconds to reach 750 dmg. 12 seconds is a lot of match time to not be shooting, especially in a fast-moving light ;) When matches play out longer you have even more leeway (or more damage).
In a Jenner medium lasers are your most useful weapon. Fairly good range, and not too heavy so you can pile them on. Pinpoint whatever components are seriously damaged, or go straight for the CT. Then I also carry (standard) SRMs which I use to smash enemies at literally point blank range during a run/fly-by so that *all* of the damage hits.
With that speed you can always be very careful about picking when and where to fight the enemy. Don't do it unless you have the clear advantage. (I've been playing since closed beta, and played all the BT/MW games before it, so I have a lot of experience with MW tactics which helps.) Lone assault mechs are easy kills since you can hide behind them and shoot out their rear armor before they can even get a bead on you.
I find it much more difficult to get above 800 damage in larger mechs.
The only other mechs in which I can pretty easily reach 1,000 damage are Jaegers, which is why you see a lot of them out there--they're pretty awesome. High-mounted arm weapons for shooting over ridges without being shot, and a great max pitch angle for hitting targets up/down steep slopes. Currently one of only three types of mech that can carry dual AC/20s, which is a lot of fun and with good enough aim will rip enemies to pieces in no time (and they do it best). Also used to play Catapults and Stalkers and do pretty high damage with those, but got kinda tired of them and now everything feels too slow since I started playing the unstoppable Jenner (I'd mastered 3 other light mechs before that, but none are as deadly as a Jenner, not even a Raven 3L). Hard to go back.
I don't normally take screenshots, but since this thread was active I played a couple matches yesterday and took some:
Spent one match dropping mechs by sneaking up behind and ripping through rear armor (with that speed and damage)--killed 2/3 of the other team with that tactic. Most mechs have really weak rear armor compared to a Jenner alpha... Don't get to do as much total damage because you spend too much time maneuvering, but it works.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Next match more or the same, but downed fewer mechs in favor of more frontal assaults.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: nenjin on February 24, 2014, 05:52:36 pm
Post by: etgfrog on February 24, 2014, 07:23:03 pm
Hm...put an XL 100 engine on a missile stalker..."I'm a missile turret" :D
Funnily enough...even with a standard 100 engine...it still goes 19 kph.
funnily enough...it would take somewhere between 5 and 6 minutes to fire all 1440 missiles
updated design, more missiles in less time since 27% cooling efficency is unacceptable, and remove the ghost heating
ImaMissileTurret (http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=46&l=65e311736711acdad661d699610f84da525bad95)
Onto a more serious note...this is what I'm using to get 600+ damage MISERY (http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=75&l=58466aa93723835929a9350bbbde12f6fbf7971a)
I also average 55% accuracy on the ppc and 59% accuracy on the ac2
Post by: Imofexios on March 22, 2014, 02:40:00 pm
Quite fun and hoping this gets done properly :)
Post by: Werdna on March 22, 2014, 05:01:15 pm
Post by: Kyzrati on March 22, 2014, 05:46:14 pm
Hate (HATE) the new Mechlab UI (seriously, how could they make it worse than the original?)I can't believe how bad the new UI is, either, especially after they put so much "work and testing" into it. I played almost every day for over a year, and quit shortly after the new UI launched. Designing mechs is now a CHORE rather than actually fun like it should be... I may play again when clans arrive just to see how things are, because the game itself is still great (and it *is* BT/MW!), but that UI, OMG...
Post by: Imofexios on March 22, 2014, 06:31:51 pm
It could be better for sure.
The more i read forums the more i'm concerned about the development of game.
MWO really needs Voip and some sort clan and the faction warring going on.
Hell the games fun to play as team.
Post by: umiman on March 22, 2014, 06:33:01 pm
Checked website, first thing is the clan invasion. Oooh, interesting. Click.
$55 per mech. $240 for the whole set. FIVE HUNDRED for a gold version.
They really haven't changed have they. Guess they know their market.
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 16, 2014, 08:29:38 am
Especially jarring if you come back to MWO after playing a game with a nice UI. I was playing Hawken and the UI, while not the best, is quite easy to use and info is presented in a useful way. Loaded MWO and patched, what the shit is this?Hate (HATE) the new Mechlab UI (seriously, how could they make it worse than the original?)I can't believe how bad the new UI is, either, especially after they put so much "work and testing" into it. I played almost every day for over a year, and quit shortly after the new UI launched. Designing mechs is now a CHORE rather than actually fun like it should be... I may play again when clans arrive just to see how things are, because the game itself is still great (and it *is* BT/MW!), but that UI, OMG...
Post by: nenjin on April 16, 2014, 10:06:49 am
Post by: Ygdrad on May 09, 2014, 09:53:38 pm
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 14, 2015, 04:54:49 am
The UI is still weird but once you wrap your head around the mech customizer it's fine, the graphics are outdated and all the flashy things really fatigues you.
apart from that I'm loving it. got the cheaper of the cheapest using the starting money, a Spider 5D, I added some pulse laser and I'm having a blast! Thing is, it's rare to find a game where lights are actually this useful. I also manage to get some kills every now and then, but as a scout I feel useful and as a support flanking really works wonder.
tl:dr
I love it
any b12 clan live?
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 14, 2015, 05:34:30 am
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 14, 2015, 07:17:28 am
now I'm looking for a really fast medium that doesn't look my personal definition of ugly
anyone more experienced here wants to comment on this little trebuchet?
TBT-3C S + 1 (http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=60&l=74de1c605fd7ec62bbf981446456a5a8daf655f0)
edit:
but also this
CDA-2A even better (http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=37&l=617f101a50c658d7c3a39304ecc90d8b62712a1b)
all optimized for speed because I just like the flanking role. cicada also sport a tag! the only problem I have with that is that it looks like shit
edit/2: using an even faster cicada
Post by: Ozyton on December 14, 2015, 09:02:05 am
The main downside it, last time I recall, it's fairly Pay 2 Win, but that doesn't necessarily mean it isn't Free to Enjoy. It uses a system where every week(?) they swap out the available free mechs so you can try different stuff out before you lay any money down on it.
The way customization works is also very interesting, as you can see in the links in LoSboccacc's post. Your mech has slots in different regions of the body where you can place modules and weapons and the locations of these are actually rather important. Put a laser on your torso and you can only aim using your torso, while putting it on your arms means that you get better range of motion and can aim easier, but the arms typically can't hold the heavier weapons. You also have to be careful of heat, as your mech can overheat and be forced to power down in order to cool off which is extremely bad. You can slap heatsinks on different parts of your mech, but the locational damage means that if you put all your heatsinks into your left arm and the enemy shoots your left arm off (literally, this can happen) then all your heatsinks are gone. Be mindful of your targetting display and aim wisely, headshots may actually not be the end-all be-all strategy you find in many other shooters.
For example, on the mech shown above you might decide to aim for the right side of the mech (the left side from your perspective if you're face to face) since his right arm has more weapons and the right shoulder has a weapon while the left side of the body only has one weapon on the arm. If it's a fast mech you might aim for the legs to impair his movement.
Ah yes, the map you play on has different effects on certain things. Play on a cold map? Your mech heats up slower. Play on a hotter map, perhaps with steam vents? Your thermal vision gets blocked by the heat. Probably the most authentic thermal vision I've seen in a game
Can't remember much else about it, but it's free to play, so the only thing you're paying is your ISP for downloading it, basically.
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 14, 2015, 09:07:57 am
Post by: Anvilfolk on December 14, 2015, 10:09:25 am
If you ever want to get a heavy or assault and customise it, you'll have to grind... a lot. It requires many, many millions, and when you're grinding for a new mech part, a new engine, a new something, basically you're stuck to your static mech bay for a lot of that time.
But yeah, definitely more tactical than most, and sometimes some people even have voicecomms on. You can also do the community warfare and get stomped on by organised units :P
Post by: etgfrog on December 14, 2015, 11:23:47 am
If you want something that is cheap but gives a decent amount of money, try a Hunchback-4J (http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=21&l=62888b8e1de9a8508523e9e0b09bdc508dcd9a38). The key is stay around the larger mechs in your group, provide some anti-missile system support, lob missiles at any targets, shoot the lasers at any lights trying to poke the larger mechs. If your getting shot at, look to the right so your left arm and torso takes the damage.
Oh...I'm still a bit silly with mech design, here (http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=276&l=5f3c7da33529e22999374747833aca94bfcda099) is what I've been using recently. I end up dying horribly if any mech seriously tries to go after me in PSR 3, but I usually go behind a building or mountain after I shoot.
I'll throw a useful link (http://snafets.de/mwo/quirks.htm) in this post. Its a list of the mech quirks that are in the game, so if you want to find a specific weapon type you like.
Post by: nenjin on December 14, 2015, 11:26:12 am
Post by: etgfrog on December 14, 2015, 11:37:17 am
Post by: Werdna on December 14, 2015, 11:39:39 am
anyone more experienced here wants to comment on this little trebuchet?
TBT-3C S + 1 (http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=60&l=74de1c605fd7ec62bbf981446456a5a8daf655f0)
Been a long time since I played (8-12mo?), so take my comments with a grain of salt, patches may have changed things. At the speed that mech is capable of, you don't really need AMS unless you intend to provide mobile LRM protection to other mechs. I'd replace it for another heat sink in your engine. Pulse lasers run hot and the style of mech you have will require you to fire them almost non-stop to get kills, using your mobility to run around your targets. I'd also shift some more armor from LA/LT to RA/RT since more of your firepower is on that side - don't think symmetrically when dealing with LA/LT/RT/RA, think in terms of what you're trying to protect. Finally, an XL 390 engine is heavy. Consider dropping down a few notches to an XL380 - you get 2.5 tons more to work with allowing you two more double heat sinks and a half a ton more armor, at a cost of only 3kph.
Have you already purchased the XL390? Purchasing XL's are a major decision, they are expensive and take a lot of time to grind the C-Bills for. I'd highly recommend that you play, gain some experience, and then build out a few solid mech loadouts that can all use the same XL engine. Then, you can "share" that same engine between all the mechs. The problem with the XL390 is that it is so heavy that it leaves almost no room for armament and armor, it is really specialized engine.
Post by: etgfrog on December 14, 2015, 11:46:09 am
Post by: Neonivek on December 14, 2015, 11:53:15 am
In that the robots are a LOT more menuverable then they were in the game (for good reason... No action battletech/MechWarrior game has EVER tried to emulate the clumsy bots)
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 15, 2015, 11:23:07 am
I'm enjoying this too much
Post by: MasterFancyPants on December 15, 2015, 03:36:52 pm
Post by: nenjin on December 15, 2015, 03:57:15 pm
Post by: quinnr on December 15, 2015, 06:00:18 pm
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on December 15, 2015, 06:02:57 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on December 15, 2015, 06:05:38 pm
Post by: nenjin on December 15, 2015, 06:07:07 pm
MWO is one of those F2P games that if I only played it, I wouldn't have many issues. But with divided play time, it felt like I was getting nowhere.
Quote
I guess the only question is will it ever get better down the line?
For how long it's been out, if it's not palatable to you now I doubt it ever will be. When I compare MWO and what it asks for cash for, how aggressively it puts microtransactions in front of you, to a F2P game like WF, MWO definitely seems like the worse deal. It's more of a struggle to earn stuff in MWO than other F2P games I've played. But some of that at least comes down to the structure of gameplay among other things. I'd be hard pressed to find a F2P game more grindy than WF but I think MWO qualifies.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 15, 2015, 11:28:49 pm
The problem I have with MWO thus far is exactly what you've outlined: they're too aggressive about the microtransactions, even to the point of mimicking Wargaming's bullshit about "lol we have ten bajillion vehicles but you're only allowed to own four unless you gib shekels". At least it's "only" $7 for 12 more slots.
I'm honestly not sure if I totally agree about the grind, though. I've only been playing for ~3 hours and I've already got my RVN-3L maxed as far as I can; I've got all the basic skills, the best XL engine, all the hull/heatsink upgrades bought, and my ideal loadout in all other respects. I've got enough C-bills to buy the next variant, and I ought to be able to start unlocking elite skills in 7-8 more hours max. The only part that's blatantly grindy is the pilot skills because they think they can fleece people of more cash to convert exp or whatever.
It's not a great game, but it's recognizably a modernized MW game. I've got my real hopes for excellence pinned on the tactical/strategic one that succeeded massively on KS just recently, but that's a year or two out and MWO is an acceptable stopgap.
Post by: Neonivek on December 15, 2015, 11:41:22 pm
It was actually going to be a lot deeper of a game.
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 16, 2015, 02:49:59 am
but anyway, a new mech is about 100 matches, hardly grindy. sure some are pricier, and the worst cost about 200 matches to unlock and deck, that's what, a week of play to unlock an assault?
coming from another really grindy game, where I've been playing one month to unlock the tier 4 first aircraft, and I need to go trough five in order to get a tier 5, this is a breeze.
edit:
by all means I know grindy is subjective, so to each their own. I'm not disputing that or challenging your feeling. I'm saying there are very worse game around that still get played.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 16, 2015, 04:56:56 am
Got my Raven-4X half-skilled and kitted except for the drive. I really, really like the 2x ER LPL build for it, that firing time is absurd. Probably going to keep it around after, for that and for the trolly AC20 build. Maybe moonlighting as a Gauss poptart too.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on December 16, 2015, 08:22:16 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on December 16, 2015, 11:12:08 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on December 18, 2015, 08:36:59 pm
Post by: Dostoevsky on December 19, 2015, 01:07:14 am
Ever since Chromehounds got put to bed I've been looking for a new good Mech game with crazy customization. MWO is really nice, but the price and the unfortunate reputation surrounding the dev team makes it a no-questions-asked no-buy. I guess the only question is will it ever get better down the line?
Ah, Chromehounds. Always brings a metaphorical tear to my eye when I think back on that game. Even if the customization was kind of easily broken (e.g. the terrible reign of the 'double double' chicken walkers) designing mechs in that game was superb and game mechanics like the radio towers were quite neat.
As to MWO, they increased the C-bill payouts a month or two back, and also had a somewhat substantial balance pass in the past few weeks. Both helped alleviate some of the issues with the game. They also nerfed pilot skills, making the performance gap between new & mastered mechs less drastic. It's been pretty slow progress, but I think post-IGP PGI has made some improvements.
Around major US holidays they sometimes do 'grab bag' events that give out free MC as well as possible garage slots/etc., so if you keep an eye out for those and the other events you can get access to some of the less expensive pay-fors.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 19, 2015, 02:38:44 am
You can also get one easy mech bay for each faction by playing Faction Play aligned with each up to 1600(?) LP, which is like two matches. Just don't sign long contracts if you want to do that. Means something like, what, 10 free bays? I can't remember how many clans are represented in MWO.
That said, don't fucking play that mode unless you've got a full lance of completely upgraded mechs. Modules are optional, but if you don't at least have your full build and basic pilot skills you're dragging everyone else down. If you play with trial or stock mechs in FP you are figuratively cancer.
I'm just a slightly bit salty right now because of a very narrow loss in a PuG vs PuG match that we lost... because fucking morons are apparently deaf enough to not hear anyone telling the team that there's a light sitting on top of a building shooting the cannon and too blind to see the same thing in chat or notice the lasers and blinking objective health bar. What makes it worse is that I managed to get an angle on the fucker in my last mech, blew off both his arms, and then got taken from behind when all he had left were his SLs in his head/torso. Seven fucking people standing around the gun like they didn't know what was happening. >.>
Post by: Wiles on December 20, 2015, 01:16:01 pm
Post by: Graknorke on December 20, 2015, 02:12:59 pm
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 20, 2015, 02:18:48 pm
the bigger stuff goes for less than 20million, so the hardware isn't pricey.
there are levels to unlock mech bonuses and to grind all bonus for a mech type you have to buy all variants, that's grindy on paper if you are a completist, but it is not as critical to have them all as, say, crew bonuses.
mostly depends on your goals. if it's about getting to the heaviest mech as fast as you can, it's not bad. if you want to unlock a full lineup, it may take loads of time. ditto if you want to play competitively, but on random servers isn't as critical to unlock all the stuff.
Post by: lastverb on December 20, 2015, 05:42:52 pm
So I've been having a look at this. How's the grind? Compared to, say, WoT?There is no tiers = no grind. You can get any mech in a day of playing. Maxing the skills (modules) on it gives 5-10% upgrade over basic ones and takes 3-5x that long. On the other hand there is a shitload of mechs to choose and max. You are also free to choose what to equip it with. Even basic (free) mechs are around how good best mechs in game can be. However, due to modularized hp pools and no impenetrable armor anywhere it is MUCH harder for new/bad players than WoT and other games like that.
Basically, think WoT with no exp requirements and a grind of credits on t5-7/8prem (fastest depending on skill) with a T1 being as usefull in t10 game as t8 light.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 20, 2015, 09:45:04 pm
I just started playing last night and am looking to buy my first mech, but I really can't decide! I'm assuming I should stick to buying either clan or inner sphere if I want to play the faction mode? How do you tell if a mech is clan or inner sphere when you are buying them? I've played mechwarrior before so I know some of them, but there are a lot that I am not familiar with.
The clan mechs were introduced after launch, so only the mechlab (and not the store) differentiates between IS and Clanner mechs. But yeah, it's best to stick with one at the start. Clan mechs were OP when they launched (and were P2W for a while), but they got hit with the nerf bat and IS mechs were buffed, both with the quirk system. Hover your cursor over a mech in the shop; most clan mechs only have negative gameplay quirks and a minor exp boost, while IS mechs generally have a long list of positive quirks (which also generally align with the hardpoints on IS mechs, so ferex a model that's set up to be a good LRM boat will have missile-related quirks.
If you're looking for advice on what to buy, here (http://metamechs.com/mwo-tier-lists/) is a good list of regularly updated tier lists, and here (http://metamechs.com/mwo-guides/mech-buying-guide/) is a guide for buying mechs for organized team play. I'll give a general summary as well:
1. Start with a set of three light 'mechs. They're cheaper initial investments and you'll need some to fill out the fourth spot on your lance when you play CW/faction play. If you want to go IS, either the Ravens or the Firestarters are good buys. If you want to be a Clanboy, get the Arctic Cheaters. Firestarters are the dominant IS light for classic "run around constantly being an annoying circle-strafing asshole" play, Ravens are no-competition the best support/sniper lights in the game. Arctic Cheaters are Firestarters except with ECM. My experience is with Ravens, here's how they break down:
3L: Best sniper in the game. No competition. Comes with ECM; strap on two ERLLas, unlock the module for extended ERLLas range and do constant poke damage from as far as ~1500 meters out. Equip the best(?) XL engine in the game at the same time so that you can run away at 150km/h.
4X: -30% laser duration, +30% laser range, but with no ECM. This is an excellent platform for 2x LPLas, because their firing cycle is reduced to almost nothing, so you can peek nothing but your upper right corner for ~1 second, drop your 22 damage alpha onto a single point, and be back in cover before they know they've been hit.
2X: I don't really like it, but it's a laser boat that can hit above its weight class. Has lots of quirks for making lasers more effective, and you can fit it with 2x LLas and 2x MLas, then alpha those for 28 damage or rotate them while being nearly heat-neutral.
Huginn: Premium, but it's an obscenely nasty SRM boat.
2. Remember, you need at least three variants of a mech to be able to get the Elite and Master skills for it. Master your light variants, sell any you don't enjoy/do well with, and start working towards an Assault or Heavy.
If you're going Clan, the Dire Wolf, Timber Wolf, and Ebon Jaguar are all very good. In CW that's pretty much all you'll see the Clanboys pulling. If IS is more your speed, you have more options, but the Stalkers, Battlemasters, Banshees, and Quickdraws generally have the most good variants. IS also has some exceptionally good premiums if you're willing to drop real money: I got two of the best, the Misery (which combines the super-troll hitboxes and zombie potential of all Stalker variants with the 2x PPC + AC/20 "40" build that will ruin anyone's day at any range) and the Ilya Muromets (which is still excellent despite brawlers and ballistic mechs being somewhat off-meta). The Stalker line in particular is worth pursuing: Misery as above is super-trolly if you torso twist and use cover well, the 4N is one of the best laser-vomit mechs in the game, the 5M is a superb LRM boat, and each of the 5S, 3H, and 3F are also good or above average laser boats or generalists, mostly thanks (again) to the high weapon mounts and hitboxes.
3. For filling things out, or if you want to grind trial mechs more before making your initial buy, there are good mediums as well. The Stormcrows, even post-nerf, are obscene. The Blackjacks are likewise exceptional.
Basically for CW it doesn't matter what you pick beyond personal preference, because outcomes are wholly derived from the matchmaking: groups beat PuGs 99% of the time; PuG vs PuG is a coinflip, though defense usually wins because it's easier for a bunch of idiots to camp a base than organize an effective attack.
So I've been having a look at this. How's the grind? Compared to, say, WoT?Trivial. I got my first set of three 'mechs almost fully kitted out and with all skills elited in ~50 combined matches between the three, maybe, and have also finished almost all the basic skills and reoutfitting of the mechs I bought with real money, plus another Heavy I picked up with C-bills. The only real limiting factor is that mechbays cost ~$1.30 each, but you can get close to a dozen by running short contracts and playing 2-3 matches for each faction in CW, and you can also get gold currency &c. from the weekend challenges and higher CW rewards. I think that if you played a single faction in CW up to the top rank you'd have, what, 3 free mechbays and enough MC to buy 10 more? And of course once you've mastered a set of variants you can sell off the ones you don't like or use to make room.
By the by. Pilot skills/modules. The only mech modules worth getting are the one that instantly drops enemy radar lock when you move into concealment and the seismic sensor one. Don't waste GEXP on any of the others, use it for weapon modules instead.
Post by: etgfrog on December 20, 2015, 09:53:39 pm
Good recomendations regardless.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 20, 2015, 10:01:43 pm
Post by: etgfrog on December 20, 2015, 10:10:21 pm
Post by: Wiles on December 21, 2015, 01:07:36 am
Post by: Flying Dice on December 21, 2015, 09:32:40 pm
7:00 AM EST Dec. 22nd - 7:00 AM EST Jan. 4th.
Every time you get 150 match score in Quick Play or 100 match score in Faction Play, you get an event point, up to a maximum of 75 from Quick Play and a further 50 from Faction Play, for a total of 125. (You can also get 25 more on top of that if you buy an Archer collection pack, but fuck that noise). Each point gets you a random prize from the grab-bag, which can include any of the following:
1. Varying quantities of MC, C-bills, and GXP.
2. Premium time.
3. MC-tier consumables.
4. Christmas cockpit items.
5. A Centurion AH + bay (only one per account)
6. "joke" rewards of a flamer or SLas.
So that's 125 shots at a sorta-okay (and very goddamn old) Medium brawler, but more importantly the opportunity to accumulate a good pile of free MC (though how good will depend on what sort of quantity and roll chance we're talking about). Or, y'know, Christmas lights for your cockpits if that's more your thing. As long as you're half-competent you can knock out the QP ones in a couple days, but goddamn it'll take a week or two just to find 50 FP matches.
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on December 21, 2015, 09:39:28 pm
My favourite mech was the Catapult CPLT-C1, but that was before they added a whole bunch of new mechs into the game.
What is the current meta for sniper and LRM mechs?
Post by: Flying Dice on December 21, 2015, 10:06:26 pm
STK-5M I run mine with 4x LRM 10 set to sequence-fire and 2200ish ammo; an alpha will damn near overheat you, but you can keep up a literal constant stream of missiles if you don't, and you'll rarely run totally out of ammo even if you spam 80-100 at every decent target you get; it also mounts a single MLas in the CT so you can zombie if you run out of ammo in a long game. It has range, cooldown, and velocity quirks, as well as an energy mount for your TAG.
Others beyond those two that I haven't played much/any of: BLR-1S, JM6-A, QKD-4H, WHK-B, TBR-S, SMN-B.
Non-LRM snipers?
The STK-3H, most of the Stormcrows, Timber Wolves, and Hellbringers, Quickdraw-5K and 4H, most of the Ebon Jags and some of the Dire Wolves, the Shadowhawk-2K. Among lighter stuff, the Raven-3L, the Adders, and the Cicada-3M. That's off the top of my head.
Post by: etgfrog on December 21, 2015, 11:10:42 pm
Post by: Kyzrati on December 21, 2015, 11:25:51 pm
Gauss got nerfed on its rate of fire, so its not used as much.Was it nerfed again at some point in the past 5 months?
I had to stop playing because my laptop can no longer handle all the new stuff they've been adding to maps, so I'm not sure about the most recent developments, but last I played gauss was the ultimate sniper weapon on a DWF.
No one could stop me and my 4x gauss build, which can single-handedly pick apart entire lances from half way across a map. Fun times :D. Too bad I can't run it anymore... I have about 50 fully upgraded mechs sitting in my bays :'(
Post by: Dostoevsky on December 22, 2015, 12:44:50 am
Was it nerfed again at some point in the past 5 months?
In early December there was a slightly major balance update... not nearly as extensive a changeup as PGI was initially indicating, but perhaps that's for the best.
As part of that, gauss rifles got an extra 1.5 seconds of cooldown (4 secs to 5.5 secs).
(patch notes of that update here: http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/215830-patch-notes-1438-01-dec-2015/)
Post by: Kyzrati on December 22, 2015, 12:54:21 am
It was inevitable, I guess. Still, when you have 4 of them combined with maxed out weapon buffs, even with that nerf they're pretty damn awesome. Alternating firing in pairs you barely have to stop firing, so with a zoom module and respectable aim you can punch holes through fresh mechs at range, or aim for damaged locations and finish off targets quickly.
That said, I wouldn't want to use 1~2 gauss rifles; they were already kinda mediocre compared to some of the other options.
Hm, they even increased the speed of streaks, which were already pretty OP for boating. I should know :P
Argh, wish I could get back in the cockpit for a while...
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on December 22, 2015, 07:15:37 am
My list of mechs (basic, unless noted):
Light
Jenner x1
Locust x3
Medium
Hunchback x3 Elite
Centurion x2
Griffin x3
Shadowhawk x3
Wolverine x3
Heavy
Catapult x3 Elite
Thunderbolt x3
Assault
Atlas x2
Battlemaster x3
King Crab x1
Post by: Anvilfolk on December 22, 2015, 10:13:20 am
Post by: etgfrog on December 22, 2015, 11:14:20 am
Post by: Flying Dice on December 22, 2015, 11:42:22 am
The King Crabs are likewise in-meta, they're some of the best Assaults the IS has right now if played properly, though the low mounts and fat nature makes them less-suited to the pokey peek lifestyle (but you can corner-peek if you set your claw weapon groups up in a left/right split).
Likewise, the Catapults are all at least decent, and LRM spam is still perfectly viable in PuG Quick Battles. Shadowhawks are still decent, Thunderbolts are pretty good, Hunchbacks are solid, &c. Pretty much the only place where you're approaching nonviability is with the Lights, and even those are still workable even if they're not the greatest on paper (unless that Jenner is the -F, 'cause that's totally still in style).
And honestly it's just like tanks or planes: it's less what you drive and more how you play it. If you pick something that's strong right now which meshes with group/FP meta, yeah, you'll do better, but you can still outperform 75% of players in anything just by not being a drooling moron.
IS has got more mechs anyways, which in the end means more solid options. Clans, like I said, basically only ever run Dire Wolf, Timber Wolf, Ebon Jag, Hellbringer, and maybe a little Stormcrow in FW, except when they get pushed down to their Arctic Cheater or whatever.
--
Once the event starts, I'm gonna keep a tally of my prizes here. If anyone else wants to do the same, I might draw up percentages and average prize amount for the variable ones.
Post by: Wiles on December 22, 2015, 12:16:50 pm
Post by: Dostoevsky on December 22, 2015, 01:29:07 pm
Do mechs ever go on sale? I was having a lot of fun with the Arctic Cheetah on trial that you can only buy with MC, but I'm not really willing to pay 40$ just so I can buy a single battlemech.
The mech packs (Clan Waves, Resistance, etc.) don't go on sale, but the MC prices for individual mechs in the in-game store do occasionally go on sale. There have been occasional C-bill price sales as well.
For the Arctic Cheetah in particular, if you're thinking of picking it up for real money you can get the first level of the wave three pack (https://mwomercs.com/wavethree) for $30, which would come with the benefits of an (I) Prime variant (bonus C-bill income) and a few other bonuses.
Edit: which one were you looking at that's MC-only? It looks like all the variants are currently available for C-bills. The (C) variant, which is MC-only, is just an ACH-Prime with extra XP gain (which isn't really much of a bonus, in my opinion).
Post by: Wiles on December 22, 2015, 02:04:02 pm
Edit: which one were you looking at that's MC-only? It looks like all the variants are currently available for C-bills. The (C) variant, which is MC-only, is just an ACH-Prime with extra XP gain (which isn't really much of a bonus, in my opinion).
Oh I thought the MC only one was different than the Prime. I'm new to the game so I'm not so good at spotting the differences. Thanks for pointing that out!
edit - They do seem different to me though, the ACH-Prime has 4 energy hard points while the ACH-Prime(C) (which is only purchasable with MC) variant has 6. The ACH-C has 7 energy hardpoints but it doesn't have ECM. I like the idea of having ECM to help my team out, but I'm not sure how vital that is.
Post by: Dostoevsky on December 22, 2015, 02:50:16 pm
Taking a closer look, the (C) version of the Prime uses parts (called 'omnipods') from the other ACHs - specifically, an ACH-B left arm and ACH-C right arm. That'd affect the hardpoints it can use, but you can make that same swap in the regular Prime variant. In other words, you can buy the regular ACH-Prime and then swap out the arms (or side torsos, or legs) with other parts. Costs some C-bills to buy the new parts, but just C-bills - you can achieve the same loadout as the (C) version without paying any MC.
Swapping omnipods like that is something only clan mechs can do. While Clan mechs are labeled by the CT (center torso) part, they can swap out the rest of the parts with their other variants. E.g. I can swap out the 6E Prime Right arm on a Nova with a with a 1B arm if I wanted to; it'd still be a an 'NVA-PRIME' but has different hardpoints/quirks.
Edit: To go a little further in describing omnipods, think of buying a clan mech as buying just the CT, since the rest of the parts can be swapped out. The different CTs often have different bonuses/quirks; click 'view in mechlab' in the store and then mouse over the CT to see what quirks a particular variant offers in the CT.
Alternatively, you can go to http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/. This provides just about all the info you'd want about mechs, parts and quirks in a (somewhat) readable format. It also gives you a simulated mechlab to toy around with customizing your mech (the UI there is so good that PGI ended up more or less copying it into the game).
Post by: Flying Dice on December 22, 2015, 03:23:56 pm
Post by: Tnx on December 22, 2015, 04:33:20 pm
Post by: Sonlirain on December 22, 2015, 04:40:54 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qqun_DzGPs
Post by: Flying Dice on December 22, 2015, 05:14:12 pm
So are medium mechs just afterthoughts in this game? The huge post by flying dice seems to guide players to start on a light and work towards an assault/heavy right away? Also, what mechs have nice and clean cockpits that are good laser vomit candidates?
Nah, that's mostly because I'm writing from the perspective of preparing for Faction Play. The way weight limits for your lance tend to work out is 2x Assault + 1x Heavy + 1x Light, or 1x Assault + 2x Heavy + 1x Light. It's generally not worth pulling Mediums in most cases because:
1. Unless you are already using a single Assault and two low-weight Heavies, you're probably going to have to pull something like 1x Assault, 1x Heavy, 2x Medium.
2. Related to ^, Faction Play almost entirely orients around line-of-battle grinding and full-company pushes through heavy fire. Anything much below a Heavy will melt way too fast, and FP battles tend to cascade, where losing one or two mechs early makes it much easier for the other team to hold/push through while the dead guys are waiting to drop back in.
3. Seriously, there's basically no room for anything except high-damage high-armor beasts, with pretty much the sole exception being an ECM/jumpjet Light--and almost everyone would take a fourth Assault or Heavy if they could. All FP maps are basically just one big collection of choke-points with few/no places where you can flank, support, avoid fire while still being useful, &c. The bottom line is that in FP you will take a lot of nasty hits with every mech you field, and your team needs you to be able to take those hits, because the entire enemy team is going to be able to. Taking an underweight lance into FP is only preferable to one other option: taking a lance full of stock/trial mechs in.
Like, this. My typical experience as an IS pilot while in combat is staring down the barrels of anywhere from 2-10 Clan Assaults and Heavies. That's the majority of my contact with enemy forces. If you bring fragile mechs, don't know how to spread damage, &c., you're just going to die over and over again without doing anything useful.
Mediums are perfectly viable in Quick Play, and generally sit at the same 20-25% of mechs in queue as Assaults and Lights, mostly because the game modes and maps are designed to fit multiple playstyles.
--
Unrelated, here's the numbers I've seen from the variable grab bag rewards: 10 MC, 20 MC, 300 GXP. Guessing that the C-bills are going to be in the 10k-100k range.
Post by: Dostoevsky on December 22, 2015, 06:06:59 pm
Wait... is this the same game by chance?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qqun_DzGPs
It is, and the saga surrounding the introduction of Clan Mechs may well have been the nadir of MWO. When Clan Mechs first came out they were both pay-only and pretty darn overpowered; those days are (mostly) over. There are still 'pre-order mechs many months in advance' packs, but nowadays no gold mechs (which were reportedly insisted on by PGI's ex-publisher IGP), less P2W, etc. etc.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 22, 2015, 07:29:02 pm
I figured to include FP because as long as the company doesn't go under it's going to eventually be revamped into something that doesn't consist of waiting 15 minutes to get stomped by a premade 12 or coin-toss to see which group of PuGs has more retards. That, and because you can get a ton of free stuff by playing it.
--
Just got my first C-bill drop and I was off in my estimate; it was 500k.
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on December 22, 2015, 10:56:22 pm
Just got my first C-bill drop and I was off in my estimate; it was 500k.
The variation is so wide. I've got between 82.5k to 162.k. It's irrelevant of how you perform in the game that generates the coupon (match score, I believe).
Anyhow, I've got my best games so far in Catapult A1 with 4x SRM6s and 2x SRM4s with Artemis. It's a 'shotgun flanker' build with 80kmh top speed thanks to 300XL engine. Heat is actually easier to manage compared to my other laser-oriented or mixed weapon mechs. Consistently getting 3-4 kills in PuG and even in a lost game, I could still get 200-400 match score. Perhaps not as high as better players get, but I've had really positive experience with this build. Just make sure you set each weapon group 1 and 2 to:
2x SRM6s
1x SRM4
Otherwise you'll get ghost heat from firing more than 4 SRMs at once. I have weapon group 3 set to all SRMs firing alternatively and only alpha-strike ('\' key) when target rear torso is at point blank range.
CPLT-A1 Shotgun Flanker (http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=13&l=dd0cb2c0e6e88fd166c99911a6c7021808bba2e2)
Also, due to my high ping, snipping is finicky and I prefer short-medium range heavy mechs. Any recommendations on mechs and weapon choices?
EDIT: Got 7 kills with above build and I don't even consider myself a good player. I know the Cats are off Meta now, due to their big size and low number of hardpoints, but man, somehow this one just works for me. Hoping PGI will rebalance the Cats in coming patch.
Post by: tryrar on December 23, 2015, 08:24:12 am
Post by: Flying Dice on December 23, 2015, 11:01:50 am
This is the Raven 3L build I run. (http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=33&l=fc6078480d34a44432911f45e6c944df2dd74b3f) Once you get your skills you top out at ~147kph going forward and ~100kph in reverse, and reach that in less than four seconds from a standing start. You turn on a dime and can twist your torso about as quickly as you can move your mouse. You can alpha those ERLLas eight or nine times in a row before heat starts being a concern, which is about the maximum amount of times you ever want to fire from the same general location (assuming you're being responsible and shifting after every shot). Obviously there's no point running a 3L if you don't take ECM.
Ofc. you run ERLLas CDR and Range modules, as well as the usual Radar Deprivation. The second 'Mech module could reasonably be either Seismic Sensor (defensive) or Advanced Zoom (offensive).
But yeah. You can reach out and touch someone from up to 1500m (more importantly, you can alpha from ~700m out for 18 damage every ~3 seconds), run away from literally anything else in the game while dodging fire via serpentine movements because you turn and run fast enough for that to be viable, and are basically impossible for the average PuG team to focus down, since that requires another ECM mech catching you in counter-ECM long enough for them to pay attention and shoot you. I tested it once on Crimson Strait, sniping at my maximum range from the island--I still managed around 100 damage even though I had to have been doing just about the lowest possible damage per shot in the game.
There's a reason why Raven 3Ls are probably the single most likely 'Mech to be last man standing in a Quick Battle, and it's certainly not because only good players use it. It's survivable as fuck. The extreme speed build is also important for your score, because you absolutely have to relocate frequently, since anything at all that can hit back at your ideal range will probably core you or almost do so; the less time you spend running between positions, the more time you spend putting lasers downrange.
The other reason why I generally avoid putting missiles on my 3L (apart from the utter lack of tonnage for them and the even greater potential for being one-shotted by something nasty) is because they flat-out don't compare to the ERLLas when it comes to damage potential. A SRM-4 or two SSRM-2s do less than half the alpha of the ERLLas and in return make you slower and less heat-efficient, all for the sake of trying to cover for a situation that you can generally avoid with good positioning or escape with quick reactions. The only light that really scares me when I'm in my 3L is an Arctic Cheater, since they're fast as fuck, studded with low-heat low-CD weapons, and can ECM-cancel. Most others you can play the "Oh, I saw you coming when you were 400 meters out and moved a few hundred meters back to a new position, have fun getting legged while you're too far to fire back," game with. :P
Post by: Dostoevsky on December 23, 2015, 11:43:58 am
Man, double heatsinks make ALL the difference for the Raven 3L.
Only in very rare circumstances does one ever want to use single heat sinks. There are a few non-troll builds that need them to save on slots, but normally doubles are a necessity. Single heat sinks were buffed a tiny bit in the most recent balance patch, but doubles are still effectively a required (and somewhat pricey) upgrade.
Post by: tryrar on December 23, 2015, 12:14:04 pm
Honestly? My preference is to go all-in and not try to stopgap for brawling.
This is the Raven 3L build I run. (http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=33&l=fc6078480d34a44432911f45e6c944df2dd74b3f) Once you get your skills you top out at ~147kph going forward and ~100kph in reverse, and reach that in less than four seconds from a standing start. You turn on a dime and can twist your torso about as quickly as you can move your mouse. You can alpha those ERLLas eight or nine times in a row before heat starts being a concern, which is about the maximum amount of times you ever want to fire from the same general location (assuming you're being responsible and shifting after every shot). Obviously there's no point running a 3L if you don't take ECM.
Ofc. you run ERLLas CDR and Range modules, as well as the usual Radar Deprivation. The second 'Mech module could reasonably be either Seismic Sensor (defensive) or Advanced Zoom (offensive).
But yeah. You can reach out and touch someone from up to 1500m (more importantly, you can alpha from ~700m out for 18 damage every ~3 seconds), run away from literally anything else in the game while dodging fire via serpentine movements because you turn and run fast enough for that to be viable, and are basically impossible for the average PuG team to focus down, since that requires another ECM mech catching you in counter-ECM long enough for them to pay attention and shoot you. I tested it once on Crimson Strait, sniping at my maximum range from the island--I still managed around 100 damage even though I had to have been doing just about the lowest possible damage per shot in the game.
There's a reason why Raven 3Ls are probably the single most likely 'Mech to be last man standing in a Quick Battle, and it's certainly not because only good players use it. It's survivable as fuck. The extreme speed build is also important for your score, because you absolutely have to relocate frequently, since anything at all that can hit back at your ideal range will probably core you or almost do so; the less time you spend running between positions, the more time you spend putting lasers downrange.
The other reason why I generally avoid putting missiles on my 3L (apart from the utter lack of tonnage for them and the even greater potential for being one-shotted by something nasty) is because they flat-out don't compare to the ERLLas when it comes to damage potential. A SRM-4 or two SSRM-2s do less than half the alpha of the ERLLas and in return make you slower and less heat-efficient, all for the sake of trying to cover for a situation that you can generally avoid with good positioning or escape with quick reactions. The only light that really scares me when I'm in my 3L is an Arctic Cheater, since they're fast as fuck, studded with low-heat low-CD weapons, and can ECM-cancel. Most others you can play the "Oh, I saw you coming when you were 400 meters out and moved a few hundred meters back to a new position, have fun getting legged while you're too far to fire back," game with. :P
The only real problem with that strat is that the 3L only has a laser duration quirk, and not a very good one :P. Most of it's quirks are missile based :P. But yeah, I can see what you're going for
Post by: Flying Dice on December 23, 2015, 12:51:04 pm
Besides, in that family the Huginn's your boy for missile play. The only reason I can see for fitting missiles to the 3L would be if I was going for a really old-fashioned (like, early-2013 vintage) full support build, with the SSRM 2s, a couple MLas, a TAG, and just hugging friendly Assaults and Heavies while peeling off to kill enemy Lights. The problem with that is that it's only really viable in an organized group--in solo play your teammates generally won't take advantage of your TAG marking or ECM, will repeatedly run into you or shoot you while trying to kill enemy Lights, and you won't be able to do enough damage for a decent score. It's the same old sad story of every F2P vehicle combat arena game: the best way to be a good team player in random matches is to build for damage, play carefully (i.e. as if you were the only human being on your team), bait your teammates, and focus entirely on killing whichever target is least likely to leave you exposed. MWO's better than a lot of similar games in terms of community friendliness and cooperation, but I've still run into the assholes that'll core you from behind trying to shoot past you to steal a kill, the ones who ignore marked enemies circling around to flank, &c. forever.
e: I mean, yeah, you can do the x2 SRM 4 and nothing else ass-pounding thing, but you're still a Raven and thus squishy enough that getting caught at all means you're dead via ammo explosion (or you carry so little ammo that you're useless after a couple minutes if you don't die). That, and the recent change to SRM spread means that you have to be more precise when trying to shotgun other Lights with them. And the Huginn still does this vastly better.
Post by: Wiles on December 23, 2015, 02:20:50 pm
Post by: Dostoevsky on December 23, 2015, 03:20:13 pm
And on that note... a few notes about engines & heat sinks. The stock ACH has 10 heat sinks, not 1. Nine are 'internal' - built into the 240XL engine - and the remaining one is external. All mechs require at least 10 heat sinks total in order to function. The larger the engine rating, the more heatsinks can be contained inside the engine: less than a 250 rating and some need to be externalized, while using a really big engine allows you to pack more inside and save on the critslots used up.
Making things even more complicated, the first 10 (and only the first 10) double (and only double) heatsinks located inside an engine are more effective than other heatsinks. On the MWO forums these are often called 'truedubs', and the effect of this is that using an engine smaller than 250 reduces your heat capacity.
The above info isn't helpful for your ACH or other clan mechs with omnipods (since they can't change their engine so you can't really do anything about it), but will be helpful to know if you ever pick up an Inner Sphere mech or one of the (not yet available for C-bill) IIC clan mechs.
Post by: Werdna on December 24, 2015, 01:31:13 am
Thank you for explaining the omni pod system to me Dostoevsky. I ended up getting the Arctic Cheetah Prime and fitting it with 6 small pulse lasers. It's a blast to play and I got my first 5 kill match in it. It suffers terribly from heat problems though - on hot maps I have a hard time with only one double heat sink.
Try 5, with extra hs. Unless you're going for alphas, which this build isn't, being able to keep up sustained fire is better than extra weaponry that sits mostly idle.
Post by: etgfrog on December 24, 2015, 05:42:22 am
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on December 24, 2015, 09:15:17 am
Post by: Kyzrati on December 24, 2015, 09:26:52 am
Which one could depend on your style, but I've always been extremely pleased with my Firebrand. It's made me so many hundreds of millions of C-bills with those twin AC/20s :D. I love blowing mechs away with those, though in general the mech isn't quite as versatile as the Ilya. I don't like the profile of Cataphracts, personally. With a Firebrand it's too easy to simply pop over a hill and nail someone with your high-mounted AC/40 then disappear before taking any damage. With an Ilya you have to show a lot more body and are more likely to get creamed if the time isn't right.
Not sure how welcome Firebrands are in community warfare, since I joined the clan side since that started. Might not be as suited to it depending on your team.
Almost all the old hero mechs have been on MC discount at one point or another, so I don't know if you can count on that happening again (over the years I've never seen the same one go on discount more than once, but I've been out for the past half year or so--I played every week since beta before that, though).
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on December 24, 2015, 12:42:17 pm
Which one could depend on your style, but I've always been extremely pleased with my Firebrand. It's made me so many hundreds of millions of C-bills with those twin AC/20s :D. With a Firebrand it's too easy to simply pop over a hill and nail someone with your high-mounted AC/40 then disappear before taking any damage.
To perform as you describe, do you snipe with Firebrand's AC20s? I tried snipping with CTLP-K2 with dual PPCs and ER-PPCs and I didn't do as well as brawling/flanking. Could be my poor aim or high ping (280 to 320). For that reason I prefer short-medium range mech.
Post by: Kyzrati on December 24, 2015, 01:01:59 pm
I generally played with 240 ping or so and fared quite well. 280+ might be pushing it... With your ping I might prefer to boat streaks :P (The Stormcrow is awesome for this.)
The AC/40 excels at medium/close-range guerrilla tactics. In my years of using it I never bothered even changing out my Firebrand's loadout. It's just that good at it. You need to have dead aim though, because every volley missed is a huge opportunity loss.
Long-distance ERPPC sniping with a K2 is certainly doable with a ping of 230-260 (I used to play that way occasionally and perform pretty well--was my favorite build for a long while), but outside that ping that I'm not so sure.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 24, 2015, 04:04:09 pm
As for what hero to buy, you're not too far off from my own assessment: I picked up Misery and the Ilya Muromets myself, even if it's going to be a pain to grind those other Cataphracts. The Misery's great in and of itself, and if you play IS at all you're going to have Stalkers in your garage anyways.
Sparky and Huginn are supposed to be good, as are the Pirates' Bane and Dragon Slayer. But yeah, Misery and Ilya are both top-notch for fun and profit. Only buy one or two, save the rest of your MC for 'Mech bays TBH.
Post by: Wiles on December 24, 2015, 04:20:38 pm
I've been playing a lot trying to save up enough C-bills to kit out a Clan drop deck so I can try CW. My most recent acquisition was a Hellbringer. I had a hard time deciding how to build it so I had a look at the metamechs website. I'm not sure if I agree with their overall armour placement, they tend to have the back armour very very low which leaves you open to being flanked by light mechs. I know I've snuck up on some heavies (usually ebon jaguars for some reason) with the Arctic Cheetah and taken them out very easily because of this. In the end I decided to go with streak srms and ER medium lasers and it has been working quite well. It runs a little hot but with all the heatsinks you can jam in that thing it isn't too bad.
Is it considered necessary to join a unit if one is interested in community warfare or is playing with PUGs an okay experience? People seem to take it pretty seriously.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 24, 2015, 04:40:15 pm
You can PuG. You can do well in PuGs. Just don't expect to win anything ever against organized groups. When it's PuG vs. group, just be a selfish dick and do as much damage as you can before they roll your team.
e: that aside, do we have a B12 unit?
Post by: Wiles on December 25, 2015, 02:01:33 pm
Post by: Dostoevsky on December 25, 2015, 06:16:35 pm
What do you guys think of this Timber Wolf build? I'm not sure how well I like it so far, but I don't really know how to improve upon it. TBR-C (http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=164&l=7f5e659e921ec68a01fe01cb78910d01d9412fa6)
If you wanted to be proper and true meta (which is not a requirement, of course) you'd drop the LRMS and probably keep the missile slots unused. While I personally enjoy keeping some LRM support available, they're often not 'good' and for the TBR in particular using large LRMs makes the shoulders much larger targets.
Assuming you want to keep the LRMs or otherwise use missiles, I might suggest putting at least some of the ammo in the arms. The large shoulder-LRMs make bigger targets, and if ammo gets critted it explodes rather violently. So unless you're confident you can empty out those missile stores before you start receiving serious return fire, you're running a pretty significant risk. Since all clan mechs have built-in CASE, an ammo explosion in the arm will just take out the arm... but an ammo explosion in the side torso will still wipe out that entire side of the mech.
(For Inner Sphere mechs, CASE must be installed manually with additional tonnage/space costs, and so is seldom worth it. With no CASE, though, an ammo explosion will chain inward to often devastating effect.)
By the way: for those asking about a sale, looks like they're having one (http://mwomercs.com/news/2015/12/1444-boxing-day-sale-starts-tomorrow-get-20-extra-mc-buy) from the 26th through 30th. Many heroes on sale for 50% off, including the Misery, Ilya, Sparky, and others.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 25, 2015, 06:44:37 pm
Post by: Dostoevsky on December 25, 2015, 07:49:28 pm
Post by: Wiles on December 25, 2015, 08:41:47 pm
I'm only doing 200-400 damage a match when I can usually do 550-900 with my Hellbringer. I think part of my problem is that the Timberwolf's profile makes it easy to hit the center torso and I often end up dying to a blown out center torso before the match is over. I also find it harder to play peek-a-boo with the Timberwolf because the arm lasers fire wide and low compared to what I'm used to.
I might just go with an energy focused build instead and see how that works out.
Post by: Dostoevsky on December 25, 2015, 09:18:12 pm
The Timberwolf with LRM racks has always been the mech that I've associated with the mechwarrior series the most so I wanted to give it a try. :)
I'll admit when I first got a TBR I ran it with Artemis LRM40 and a few lasers, but that was back before the mech was (rightfully) nerfed. It worked okay and was rather fun, but if you want to pack a bunch of LRMs there are much better chassis options.
As to an energy-focused build... just be careful that the most laservomit-friendly TBR parts now have negative quirks on energy usage. They can still be quite effective, but something to be wary of.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 25, 2015, 10:36:36 pm
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on December 29, 2015, 06:11:02 pm
Post by: Wiles on December 30, 2015, 10:29:11 am
I like Misery, I have been able to brawl with other assaults and win consistently. My first build didn't work out, but when I switched to A/20 + 2 PPCs I started doing a lot better. The only problems I have are getting into AC/20 range on open maps or getting focused first in a firefight.
I haven't played with the Ilya or Pirates' Bane much yet though.
Post by: etgfrog on December 30, 2015, 11:15:09 am
Post by: Wiles on December 31, 2015, 01:09:59 pm
I've been struggling a bit with the Pirates' Bane though, it's tough playing a little 20 ton mech that can get 1 shot by a Gauss rifle. It is fun though, it takes a totally different approach to playing than any other light that I've played.
I have a question. Do you guys know if there is any penalty to leaving a match after you have died? I have read conflicting reports on the MWO forums. Some people say that there is no penalty but other people have mentioned that you don't get assist c-bill bonuses for mechs that died after you leave.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 31, 2015, 03:21:33 pm
Post by: Werdna on December 31, 2015, 07:54:50 pm
I have a question. Do you guys know if there is any penalty to leaving a match after you have died? I have read conflicting reports on the MWO forums. Some people say that there is no penalty but other people have mentioned that you don't get assist c-bill bonuses for mechs that died after you leave.
Even if you miss on the assist c-bills, it's probably less c-bills lost than the c-bills you could gain by jumping into another match now instead of waiting out the current one.
Post by: Sensei on February 01, 2016, 01:29:16 am
Who else is still playing? As someone who liked the old Mechwarrior games, am I likely to enjoy myself, or experience only hollow disappointment?
Post by: Facekillz058 on February 01, 2016, 06:11:33 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on February 02, 2016, 12:31:13 am
Post by: Sensei on February 02, 2016, 05:31:16 am
Post by: etgfrog on February 02, 2016, 08:55:10 am
Post by: Flying Dice on February 02, 2016, 11:22:09 am
Well I went ahead and bought my first mech. I figured I was decent at playing light mechs, so I bought a raven for 2.5M cbills, or something. Then I was annoyed it wasn't fast like the trial version, so I spent 6.5M cbills getting the ultra-lightweight components and fitting a 275XL engine in it. Still haven't played with the weapons yet- since Medium Lasers seem tonnage-efficient, I might try cramming a bunch of those in.Which one? If it's the 2X, yeah, load up on LLas and MLas, it's great for laserboating. If it's the 3L, that thing's built for ERLLas sniping. Some people try to say that the 4X is as well, but those quirks are downright dirty for a 2x LPLas build, and I routinely do more damage and get more kills with that than anything else in my garage, up to and including my assaults.
Post by: Sensei on February 02, 2016, 01:34:20 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on February 02, 2016, 05:30:14 pm
Likewise, the 4X is nominally supposed to be an ERLLas sniper, but the -30% duration is incredible for LPLas; your entire firing cycle gets cut down to something in the range of one second. All the juicy movement-related quirks mean that it's incredibly easy to reduce your exposure to the lowest possible time, quickly move between firing positions, and brawl in a pinch (aided by the structure quirks, which the 3L noticeably lacks). It's also set up for some troll builds, like the AC20 one.
The 2X is really the only non-premium one which was played as intended... except that it wasn't played because it was shit, right up until they buffed it hard.
Post by: Sensei on February 02, 2016, 07:03:08 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on July 30, 2016, 12:35:31 pm
Post by: Kanil on July 30, 2016, 12:48:15 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on July 30, 2016, 12:51:17 pm
Post by: Kanil on July 30, 2016, 12:59:08 pm
Post by: Erkki on August 01, 2016, 04:12:55 am
I really, really like how MWO rewards teamwork and individual skill but there just isnt much meaningful content... Unless things have changed drastically since December. ::)
PS. my Blackjacks have a kill/death ratio of 2,9:1. :P
Bumping this thread, because I'm giving this a try. I tried and rejected it pretty quickly when it first came out because it didn't play well with a joystick, but now I'll give it another shake (even if keyboard throttle sux).
Who else is still playing? As someone who liked the old Mechwarrior games, am I likely to enjoy myself, or experience only hollow disappointment?
I use CH flight pedals to turn the legs. Mouse turns torso and aims, but otherwise I use the buttons in the joystick. Maybe my mouse just isnt very good or someting but I've found it really helps in keeping that laser on the target at range when I dont need to click. Also, lots of buttons and hats in the joystick help managing weapon groups, targeting etc.
In other words, legs for turning, right thumb at throttle, right other fingers at buttons and hats and left hand aims with mouse. :)
Post by: Flying Dice on August 24, 2016, 09:52:39 pm
The Locusts are really teaching me to love the way of the crotch-shot, since it's the only part of the CT you can reach at close range.
Post by: Wiles on August 25, 2016, 12:38:55 am
Speaking of locusts did they get changed in the last little while? They look tiny now! I just started playing MWO again about two weeks ago and I looked at my locust in the mechlab and it had like .9 of a ton available. Did they change its max armour or something too? I was able to stick an extra machine gun on it but one mg seems rather piddly. I tried an extra heatsink instead but I usually don't stay in one place firing long enough to worry about overheating so that was kind of underwhelming as well.
I noticed they added supply caches too. I got to open 8 of them for free because of the recent event. That was enough to make me never want to spend MC on them. :P
Post by: Kanil on August 25, 2016, 01:11:32 am
Supply caches are indeed pretty terrible, but they're easy enough to ignore... and the occasional event key can get you a free omnipod for a 'mech you don't have!
Post by: Flying Dice on August 25, 2016, 06:37:10 am
Personally I love the Pirate's Bane, it's one of the few Hero mechs I bothered to get (the others that I have and play are the Huginn and the Ilya Muromets with the ancient chainsaw build), that ECM is just too good on a Locust. I like my old ERLL LCT-1V as well, since map votes tend to favor the wide-open campfests and it's perfect for that sort of long-term harass game.
Post by: Wiles on August 25, 2016, 09:27:51 am
Post by: Kanil on August 25, 2016, 11:04:11 am
An AMS and a tiny amount of ammo might be more useful to you than a machine gun? Not because it's particularly useful, but because one MG is pretty damn worthless.
Getting two more Locusts to elite is a sound plan, speed is life and going 7.5% faster is a good thing. I recommend the 1V and either the 3E or 3M... maybe the 1V and 1S if you really want to try the quad SRM-2 thing, but I personally didn't like it. Or hell, since they're so cheap, you can buy one and just sell it if you don't like it that much -- the engine costs more than the rest of the 'mech, and you can take that with you.
Post by: Flying Dice on August 25, 2016, 01:02:13 pm
I tried the 4x medium build on the PB, but it spread the damage too much for my taste--the 4x small pulse only does 4 damage less total in exchange for halving the heat cost and focusing the damage. If you're wanting to run a Locust with mediums, the 1E is a better choice since it can mount more in better hardpoints. Though I still might not, for the same reason that I don't like running a large pulse on them: it practically forces you into a pure single-alpha hit-and-relocate style of play that seriously diminishes your damage uptime. Up close (as with small pulses) you can use your speed, size, and agility to keep enemies confused about where you are and avoid hits. At ER large/PPC ranges, you can continually poke from relatively close-together positions, since you can peek, shoot, and vanish faster than most enemies will see and fire at you, even if you've done it multiple times in a row.
If you're looking to fill out to three, the 1E and 1V are far and away the best C-bill variants, the former for 6 energy arm hardpoints and the latter for that crazy set of quirks.
Post by: Kanil on August 25, 2016, 01:46:04 pm
At ER large/PPC ranges, you can continually poke from relatively close-together positions, since you can peek, shoot, and vanish faster than most enemies will see and fire at you, even if you've done it multiple times in a row.You can still do that with the LPL, and dish out a lot more damage with a lot less beam time. It's not quite the 0.33 that it used to be, but it's still twice as much damage per beam time than the ERLL.
'course that style of play is now better suited to the Spider which still has all the quirks, and more structure to boot.
Post by: Flying Dice on August 25, 2016, 02:31:15 pm
Post by: Kanil on August 26, 2016, 03:02:46 am
Post by: Flying Dice on August 26, 2016, 03:31:50 am
That's what I was getting at before. If you're running a LPL or ML build on a Locust, you basically get one, maybe two shots, and then you have to relocate, because poking repeatedly from medium-ish ranges is a good way to get blasted by some clanboy packing a bunch of UACs or whatever. With the SPL you can do the same thing, but you also run real cool and (probably) are playing the PB, so you've got ECM, which means that if you really need to you can run a few laps around your target and then dart away when they've turned away from your escape route. If you're running an ERLL you can poke with near-impunity against anything that's not built as a sniper, since you're a tiny little pixel a kilometer away that appears for about a second.
That said, I like 6x ML on my 1E because that alpha damage makes the risk worth it in a way that the single LPL isn't (at least IMO). The LPL doesn't have the damage to make trading worth it even if you had the armor to do so, so you're going to be constantly moving to avoid the enemy predicting you popping out somewhere. And don't get me wrong, I love the LPLs, and like I said my RVN-4X is a kill-securing machine with them, but it feels really awkward--again, probably just a dumb personal thing, since I tend to gravitate to the two heavily separated playstyles of ultra-pussy backline sniper (only in lights and mediums though, people who run sniper assaults are selfish assholes even if it is in-meta from time to time) and crazy brawling bastard (albeit only with a handful of mechs); the mid-range shooting gallery business doesn't really do it for me save for a couple exceptions.
--
Kinda meandering and I probably already said something like this, but the Locusts are the light mechs of light mechs. If you played WoT, they're like the pre-nerf T-50-2, except that they can out-turn anything and move fast enough to outrun most mechs while going in reverse. Some only have the hardpoints to snipe, so their speed and size helps them avoid return fire and escape other lights; others have good hardpoints, so they can abuse their speed and size to troll the enemy team. They'll swat you eventually if you stick around too long while they don't have bigger targets to shoot at, but even then it can take a lance or more upwards of a minute to nail you if you're on point with your dodges and use enemy fatties as cover.
Post by: Wiles on September 02, 2016, 04:02:40 pm
I think the biggest problem for me right now is learning not to be so greedy. I'll find a busy mech that I can keep shooting but invariably one of his teammates that I didn't see takes me out.
I have been mostly playing the 1v to try and level it up. I started out with the ERLL, but got discouraged by low damage output and switched to a LPL. I had some good matches with it but I ended up switching back to the ERLL. It feels like a tough time to be a locust sniper though because there are so many people running er larges. I'll peek over a hill and get fondled by half a dozen lasers.
I had a weird match today. I was playing my Orion and ended up going toe to toe with an Atlas. He stripped me of all my weapons and moved on to more pressing matters. Near the end of the match there were only 2 mechs left on my team, myself and a locust. The locust was following me very closely and I thought he was just using me as mobile cover. Turns out that wasn't the case, instead he was constantly ramming himself into me until he blew up. The game considered this a teamkill on my part so I got the -15k C-Bill penalty and the time penalty going into the next match. The cheeky bugger went as far as to write "He killed me!" and "Report him" in all chat.
Post by: MrRoboto75 on September 02, 2016, 07:31:06 pm
I still haven't decided what to buy for my first mech. I have about 13 mil c-bills in the bank and about 10 or so cadet bonuses to go. I was thinking a
Post by: Flying Dice on September 03, 2016, 01:47:36 am
This weekend's event is going to be an absolute shitshow, incidentally. (https://mwomercs.com/tournaments?t=201609mw) Already seen everyone trying to completely delimb everything in pursuit of that shiny, mediocre color.
Post by: Wiles on September 04, 2016, 09:33:20 am
I still haven't decided what to buy for my first mech. I have about 13 mil c-bills in the bank and about 10 or so cadet bonuses to go. I was thinking aMad CatTimberwolf, since it comes fairly decent out-of-the-box, and can be outfitted with basically anything. I kinda want to avoid lrms, I figure playing artillery all day won't force me to learn much about the game.
The Timber is a great first mech, it's one of the strongest heavy mechs in the game. Being an omni mech means you have a lot of options when it comes to hardpoints. The nice thing about taking the LRMs off of it is that it loses the big missile pods on the shoulders which makes the side torsos harder to hit. The Timber was my first mech as well, it has been my favourite mech since I first played MW2. :)
Post by: Flying Dice on September 04, 2016, 04:02:35 pm
Speaking of clan mechs, I finally got around to investing in one and picked up a Shadowcat-A, keeping it nearly stock save for dropping a ton of streak ammo and swapping over to the B LT with ECM and an extra heatsink. The SHC has problems--the mandatory MASC and mountain of jumpjets really kill your build diversity, especially when combined with the limited number of energy hardpoints available. Two of the variants come stock with Gauss and are apparently intended to carry it, but the very best you can do with a Gauss build is to pair it with ECM, two cERML, and two tons of ammo, which is really anemic, to the point that I'm not even going to bother. The max of 3 energy hardpoints means that you can't really boat effectively, so you're either doing 2x cERLL or 2x cLPL, or potentially a pair of cERML with cSRMs or a low-end cUAC.
That's what I thought before I bought, and it's still what I think. That said, having played it, I actually am tremendously fond of the sheer level of mobility afforded to you. After playing so long
Spoiler: Performs well, too. (click to show/hide)
e: Also, don't bother trying for the "have NARC/TAG on an enemy as they die" challenges; the game apparently doesn't have anything to register those events, making the challenges impossible to complete.
Post by: Wiles on September 06, 2016, 08:39:22 pm
e: Also, don't bother trying for the "have NARC/TAG on an enemy as they die" challenges; the game apparently doesn't have anything to register those events, making the challenges impossible to complete.
I was able to complete both of those challenges. I was a bit confused at first since the wording is a bit vague. I put NARC on a Cheetah and couldn't figure out why I wasn't getting credit when things died. Turns out they have to be killed by tracking missiles for it to count (either streak srms or lrms). So I bought a Stormcrow (wanted one for a while anyway) and put streaks, NARC and TAG on it. It was a lot easier to to get credit when I was being proactive and killing things with tracking missiles myself. The fact that you can only get one point per match towards the eleven in total that you need sucks. It took lot of playing to finish the NARC challenge.
I'm trying to figure out a Hellbringer build to play. It was probably the third mech I bought when I started playing and has had a build I took from metamechs on it forever. I never really liked the build because with two streak srm6s and 6cerml it just felt too hot most of the time.
It kinda sucks that the Hellbringer doesn't have endosteel, I feel like if I had just a bit more tonnage I could put a build I like on it. I find I have to strip a bit of head and leg armour as well as strip an arm entirely of armour to get any kind of decent build on it. "Shield" arms feel really cheesy to me but they work well so I can't help but use them when I have to.
Right now I have a sort of brawly build on it with an lbx10, 2srm6s and 4 ermls. I didn't really like the srms much so I switched them out to lrm10s but that seemed even worse. It just doesn't seem to brawl well for a heavy anyway so I might try to some a bit more long ranged. I tried a gauss rifle on it at one point too, but I'm not a huge gauss fan and don't really use them unless I can fit two of them on a mech.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 06, 2016, 10:51:31 pm
On an unrelated note, I happened to get matched with MoltenMetal/Baradul this morning. First time I've seen a YTer I follow in any game, I think.
Post by: Rince Wind on September 07, 2016, 03:23:17 am
Where can I see the challenges? I guess you get the account injections for them?
Post by: Flying Dice on September 07, 2016, 06:11:51 am
Post by: se5a on September 09, 2016, 02:44:21 pm
I've got all three non realmoney ravens.
2x is set up with:
2ER LL
1 MR
AMS
with the advanced zoom I can do reasonably well on this setup. as long as I don't get picked on by another light, or get cornered by something heavier.
3L has:
1 pulse LL
Tag
Narc
I use this in a scouting/lurm support role. Initially I was doing fairly ok in this one, but I seem to have gone up a level or something, and lately as soon as the enemy spot a mech that has ECM, they just gun for it.
4x:
1 ER PPC
Tag
Narc
Another long range sniper, with a hanfull of narcs to get anything that gets close.
this one does well too, if I remmeber/can be bothered to swap out the advanced zoom.
I've got all three to elite, and all have XL 210 engines iirc, with a speed of 109.4
The setups can do pretty well if I can get myself in a position on the flank and don't become a target by a mech who's determined to chase me down no matter what.
seriously, I've had enemy mechs chase me right through the middle of my own team.
What do you guys do with your ravens?
Post by: Flying Dice on September 09, 2016, 03:23:16 pm
I run my Ravens with pretty standard builds, because they're all really damn good.
3L:
2x ERLL
ECM
XL 295
It's an absolute rat bastard sniper like this. You'll basically only get damaged or killed if you let yourself get ambushed by a pack of even faster lights or if you get in too close. Easy 300-400 damage every match, more if you can get a good position closer in. It's fast enough to flank safely, too. Only thing is, if you want to mount both ECM and the ERLLs, you need to either not take an extra heatsink in the engine and strip 6pt of armor from the left arm, or strip a lot more armor for the extra heatsink (not worth).
2X: I sold this fucker, I don't want a mediocre 35t laserboat.
4X:
2x LPL
XL 255
Again, strip 6pt from the left arm. The quirks are what make this gold, specifically the -30% laser duration, which gets the LPLs down to 0.44s firing duration. That means that your full 22 damage alpha is concentrated on a single component in the vast majority of situations. Great for backstabbing, great for legging lights, great for burning down priority targets, great for popping damaged 'mechs in the lategame.
Huginn:
2x SRM4+Artemis
2x MG
4t SRM ammo
1.5t MG ammo
XL 280
Once again, strip 6pt from the left arm. The Huginn only really does one thing, but it does that thing exceptionally well. The missile quirks are absolutely bonkers, and SRM4s are just the right size to leave room for ammo and the MG secondaries. This is one of a handful of hero 'mechs that is beyond-doubt worth the price. Spend the early-mid game running around blasting people with SRMs, then close out polishing them off with the MGs and whatever SRM ammo you have left. 4t might seem like a bit much, but that's basically all you have, and you're mobile enough to stay alive for long enough to use it all. It's also still not enough to carry a game entirely solo; I've had matches with good teams where I was down to <200 rounds for the MGs with few/no wasted shots.
Post by: Rince Wind on September 09, 2016, 05:25:37 pm
Post by: Kanil on September 09, 2016, 06:09:39 pm
The missile quirks are absolutely bonkers, and SRM4s are just the right size to leave room for ammo and the MG secondaries. This is one of a handful of hero 'mechs that is beyond-doubt worth the price.
wuuuuuuuhh?
The Huginn is bad, and you should feel bad suggesting to someone they buy it. Like... it doesn't do anything better than the Oxide.
Please explain to me why the Huginn is good. I really, really don't get it.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 09, 2016, 06:28:34 pm
The missile quirks are absolutely bonkers, and SRM4s are just the right size to leave room for ammo and the MG secondaries. This is one of a handful of hero 'mechs that is beyond-doubt worth the price.
wuuuuuuuhh?
The Huginn is bad, and you should feel bad suggesting to someone they buy it. Like... it doesn't do anything better than the Oxide.
Please explain to me why the Huginn is good. I really, really don't get it.
Huginn gets:
+20% range
+10% velocity
+25% cooldown
-15% heat gen
Oxide gets:
+10% velocity
+15% cooldown
-5% heat gen
With proper positioning on the Oxide you're more likely to be able to wipe someone out before they can react, but you're going to run dry on ammo a lot faster and don't have anything to back up your launchers. Yeah, in an equal-skill 1v1, Oxide probably beats Huginn every time. If you're picking a space-filler for FP you should probably go with something useful instead but the Oxide would be better than the Huginn. But in QP, where teams are unreliable at best and matches get drawn out, the Huginn has greater damage potential and more endurance. Oh, and if you mess with your build a bit you can also take jumpjets on the Huginn. It also has better structure quirks, so it's a bit more forgiving to play.
Post by: Kanil on September 09, 2016, 06:58:09 pm
Range is of dubious value, considering you want to get into MG range as well. Obviously it helps, but by how much?
Velocity, they both have equal.
Cooldown requires you run SRM-4s, otherwise it's just 5% more. Whether you run SRM-4s or SRM-6s on the Huginn probably has something to do with how much face staring you do with the MGs.
Heat gen, well... you only have two heat producing weapons, your 'mech probably isn't that hot to begin with.
Structure wise, the Huginn has... 3 more points. Still technically more.
The numbers are bigger, but I don't think it's nearly enough to offset losing half your missile racks.
We do agree that it looks cool, though. That's reason enough to buy a 'mech.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 09, 2016, 09:28:14 pm
It's very much a two-stage mech, as I hinted at. The SRM range and (relatively speaking, given the number of launchers) deep ammo supply is what you rely on early-game, poking away and trying to find good flanks. It's not really the "run up and backstab" sort of mech that the Oxide is--it doesn't have heavy enough alpha damage for that. Likewise, you don't use the MGs at all for a good chunk of the match, and you run pretty cool. Once there have been deaths, holes have opened up, people are more heavily damaged, then you run wild. That's where the heat gen, structure, and MGs come into play (as well as the longer-lasting ammo): you don't just blow the last of your SRMs and run around spotting, you get in and brawl, crippling and killing damaged enemies.
Definitely not a splat build in the sense that a lot of people are used to, and if you're trying to play it like that you're probably not going to have much luck. Also, never run SRM6es on the Huginn. The extra CD is nice, but the real reason for running SRM4s is that the mech just doesn't have room for a proper build with SRM6es. You have to skimp on something: either you take a slower engine (which means you die more easily, effectively), you run ammo-light (and thus face the same problem as the Oxide late except that you don't even have a respectable alpha to make up for it), or you drop the MGs (see: above).
If you were going to, I'd dump the MGs, run an XL 280, and take 5t of SRM ammo. But if you do that, you lose the versatility it has and neuter the unique aspects of how it plays in exchange for having a mediocre splat light with worse damage spread.
But yeah those glow lines are amazing. Easily my favorite skin in the game. Default main, darker orange outline, bright orange interior, the thing practically glows.
The 4X with dual LPL plays very much the same way, except that you never really stop playing the poke game even if your whole team bites it.
Post by: Kanil on September 10, 2016, 12:24:51 am
As for it's merit in killing already half dead 'mechs, well... it's not exactly high praise -- they're half dead, after all! I suppose waiting for someone else to peel the armor off is pretty much the only way you get your tonnage worth out of the MGs, but I'd just as soon not take a 'mech that has to use MGs to be useful.
Accordingly, the Huginn build I found to be least awful was the ASRM-12s. It's definitely not a 'mech I'd recommend, and probably would have sold if I hadn't spent MC on it. Since I haven't sold it, it easily takes the prize for worst 'mech I still own (but not the worst I've ever driven.) If MGs ever get buffed, I might even be happy to still own it.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 10, 2016, 06:31:13 am
Put another way, there's one type of 'mech that I never want to pilot: the pure ballistic/missile sort that goes for a big alpha build and then runs out of ammo when a good chunk of the enemy team is still alive. And that's what the Oxide comes off to me as. The closest I use to that is my Ilya Muromets, since I run that with the really old-fashioned chainsaw build (3x UAC/5, 3x ML), but in the end that still has the secondary lasers, and I take just enough ammo that I'm usually running out at about the same time that I run out of armor. I really, really prefer 'mechs with staying power, that can be fully useful from the first shot to the end of the match.
e: Basically, I see it like this re: damage: There are two competing paradigms, the alpha and the sustained. An alpha-centered build frontloads your damage in exchange for more damage spread and greater penalties on misses and partial misses (more ammo wasted/heat built up for no return). A sustained-damage build focuses on doing more accurate and consistent damage over the course of the match, rather than occasional (and typically early) bursts. This is especially apparent with ballistic and missile weapons, since you're forced to choose between more/larger weapons and more potential damage (ammo).
It also ties into playstyle. If you're highly aggressive, the sort of person who wants to go in and punch someone in the face, you'll probably do better with an alpha build of some sort, since you're going to die faster and be (typically) fighting at closer ranges (which reduces the effects of damage loss and dispersion due to twitchy aim at little blobs of pixels). If you're a cautious player who likes to hang back and poke for most of the match, you're going to do better with a sustained build, since you're going to live long enough to output a good chunk of your potential damage and get to the point where people are damaged enough for you to brawl successfully.
Furthermore, it's linked to the sort of games you play in. If you're dropping as a group, alpha builds are almost universally better, since you'll have an organized group of people all focusing fire, which makes up for the main weaknesses of them (low damage uptime, getting alpha'd back). If you're dropping into total PuG matches, it's a crapshoot-yeah, you sometimes get those great matches where all the randoms work together well and are competent, but you get a lot more where you need to do tons of damage to many targets and survive for a long time in order to carry a mediocre-or-worse team with no organization.
Take the ultimate extremes: a Direstar, and a Locust with a single small laser. The Direstar has a massive, terrifying alpha that can one-shot almost any mech... but it only gets one shot. If you miss or fail to kill, you're worthless. Even if you get a kill, you just traded an assault for a lighter mech (since most other assaults don't mount IS XLs and can survive the alpha to the CT). In any case, you're essentially saying "I will remove one enemy mech from the game and rely on my team to win a still-even match." That doesn't work out well in QB. It's why the Direstar and Bansheestar are derpy troll builds rather than serious ones.
Now take that Locust with the single SL. It has absolutely shit damage. It will take a lot of shots just to equal the single Direstar alpha. But if it's played with a good mix of caution, aggression, and a little luck, it can end up doing superior damage and lasting long enough to meaningfully impact the game. But, obviously, if the LCT pilot fucks up, it comes off even worse than the Direstar.
It's pretty evident where my preference lies, at any rate. I'm the sort of person who runs their dual AC/2 BJ-1 with 7 tons of ammo and usually survives long enough to use it all (barring a fast victory).
As an aside, the reason I feel that strongly about the Huginn and its backup MGs is exemplified by a match I had not too long ago. We ended up in a 3v5, everyone had cored components, and I had just used the last of my SRMs, leaving me with two MGs and 1500 ammo for them. Past that point I got four kills (three most-damage-dealt) and functionally won the game for us. If I'd been in an Oxide, not only would I have been useless in that situation, I would have been useless well before it because my ammo would have been depleted more quickly. Running a high-alpha low-endurance build is an implicit statement that you don't think you can/don't want to have to carry, because it's suited for organized play and flashy kill-secures rather than hoisting the weight of your entire lance.
--
Completely unrelated: Big two-week FP event. Win a ZEU-9S2 + MB and a bunch of warhorns, or an EXE-C + MB and a bunch of other warhorns if you're a clanboy. Also 150 MC, cockpit items, 1.2m C-Bills, and a pile of GXP.
Post by: Kanil on September 10, 2016, 04:05:50 pm
Running a high-alpha low-endurance build is an implicit statement that you don't think you can/don't want to have to carry, because it's suited for organized play and flashy kill-secures rather than hoisting the weight of your entire lance.
I guess I really don't agree with this statement, because if my Griffin, JagerMech, Mauler (or theoretical Oxide that I don't own) has run out of ammo, I have already carried the game and we have won. They might not all be dead yet, but they're outnumbered to the point that they cannot come back. Sure, I can't steal the last kill or two, but I've probably got about four already to my name...
But whatever, you like the Huginn, I think it's awful. You appreciate the MGs, I think they're the worst weapon in the game. We're probably not going to come to a consensus beyond "The Huginn looks great".
Post by: Flying Dice on September 10, 2016, 04:15:43 pm
E: uuuuuu
Haven't played FP since before Scouting Mode, the 4x StreakCrow OpFors are making me cry. T.T
Post by: Kanil on September 10, 2016, 07:24:48 pm
Haven't played FP since before Scouting Mode, the 4x StreakCrow OpFors are making me cry. T.T
The Streakcrows aren't as bad as your teammates that try to fight them with lights. That's what makes me cry.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 10, 2016, 08:02:58 pm
Haven't played FP since before Scouting Mode, the 4x StreakCrow OpFors are making me cry. T.T
The Streakcrows aren't as bad as your teammates that try to fight them with lights. That's what makes me cry.
All it really takes is seeing someone take an IS light into scouting at all, honestly. :P
Best outcome I've had was a match where we had a BJ-1 on Grim Plexus and camped the central hill with a clear shot at the last intel, that was a clean sweep (discounting the one where the clanboys had a DC and the forced early dropship came down right on us).
Invasion, of course, is the usual Company/understrength Trinary unit against IS PuGs. That's why FP is the exception to my rule, you usually don't live long enough to overheat once you're in the fight on IS. Kinda makes you wish FP pitted an IS Company against a Binary.
Post by: Kanil on September 10, 2016, 08:04:47 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on September 10, 2016, 08:07:23 pm
Post by: Wiles on September 10, 2016, 08:52:58 pm
I looked at my mech stable and decided to play as a clanner because I really wasn't sure which mech I had from the IS would be good for scouting mode (although after playing many matches against the IS I think my Griffin 2n would be good).
I thought the gather intel mode was for gathering intel with fast mechs but my teammates got upset that I didn't bring something 50+ tons so I just stuck to using the Stormcrow after that.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 10, 2016, 09:06:19 pm
Post by: Kanil on September 10, 2016, 09:27:38 pm
... uncontested...
Was that changed recently or something? Used to be you just had to be standing in the zone at 0:00...
Post by: Flying Dice on September 10, 2016, 10:24:15 pm
Yep, just had one lost because there was an enemy 'mech in the circle with me. The dialogue from the DropShip pilot was something along the lines of "Pickup zone is too hot, I'm bugging out!"... uncontested...
Was that changed recently or something? Used to be you just had to be standing in the zone at 0:00...
Post by: Kanil on September 10, 2016, 10:47:26 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on September 10, 2016, 11:35:45 pm
That aside, frankly, a single light/medium with cERSLs or cSSRMs shouldn't be enough of a threat even to a Leopard to force it to evac.
Post by: Kanil on September 11, 2016, 02:21:59 am
Scouting being reduced to medium 'mech rumble is somewhat unfortunate, but medium 'mech rumble is still pretty fun, and a lot better than "coinflip, you got defend, you lose."
Post by: Flying Dice on September 11, 2016, 08:27:03 am
Post by: Wiles on September 11, 2016, 02:10:18 pm
For my dropdeck I'm running a Kodiak, a Hellbringer, a Hunchback IIc and an Arctic Cheetah. I'm thinking of switching my Hellbringer for a Timberwolf and my Cheetah for a Mist Lynx though. Or I could do Timber x3 and a Mist Lynx, but my second timber isn't really kitted out yet and I'd have to use the trial for the third Timber.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 11, 2016, 09:10:00 pm
Post by: se5a on September 12, 2016, 01:01:13 am
It pretty much always comes down to a fight in the end since you still have to have uncontested control of the evac point. You can get away with clan lights, but the IS ones just plain aren't strong enough.
lights being non viable for scouting missions seems incredibly broken to me.
Post by: Kanil on September 12, 2016, 01:55:50 am
It pretty much always comes down to a fight in the end since you still have to have uncontested control of the evac point. You can get away with clan lights, but the IS ones just plain aren't strong enough.
lights being non viable for scouting missions seems incredibly broken to me.
'cause it's not scouting, it's Solaris VII 4v4 Medium Weight. It's a failure of design I suppose, but the end result is a lot of fun if you're willing to overlook the name and the superfluous intel/dropships.
Post by: Rince Wind on September 12, 2016, 04:03:50 am
Edit: Too much heat in the extraction zone comes when the timer runs out and noones there to be picked up.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 12, 2016, 10:41:38 am
Post by: se5a on September 14, 2016, 04:52:09 pm
I've started playing faction matches a bit more, they're fun, but I often feel like I die too quickly to contribute much.
in the quick battles I tend to go for a more support or long range role (i.e. narc, tag, and longer range weapons, as you can see from my raven setups) but it looks like IS tend to avoid missile for faction games so my support ravens are of little use.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 14, 2016, 05:01:10 pm
What are you enjoying doing, between the Ravens and any trial 'mechs you've played? What ranges, playstyles, and types of weapons do you feel most comfortable with? Is there anything in particular that you're curious about trying?
Post by: se5a on September 14, 2016, 10:37:58 pm
the trial assaults are fun in quick games if I don't become an instant target, I like longer range weapons over shorter. I'd not mind getting a lrm boat if there were more players that'd narc.
Post by: Rince Wind on September 15, 2016, 05:01:29 am
When I asked I was told that Warhammers, Thunderbolts and Jaegers were preferred. I got a Marauder as my first heavy though. For support lights pack JJs and seismic, so you can get close to the enemy attack lanes and can tell your buddies when they come your way. ECM is also appreciated vs the streak boats. But you make yourself a target.
For scouting there is no supporting, it usually boils down to kill the enemy, and fast. SRM Griffin (2N?) seems to be pretty good.
Are you a loyalist? Because if so, you should try to hop on TS with others of your faction, that usually leads to participating in matches that are coordinated a lot better.
All that said, I am often happy when I manage +100 damage for each mech, because I am new as well, and 2 or three of my mechs are still the trials in my decks.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 15, 2016, 06:56:21 am
Post by: etgfrog on September 15, 2016, 02:11:57 pm
Post by: Neonivek on September 15, 2016, 02:41:46 pm
Quote
By the way, if your ever using lrms, don't be out at 500+km, be at 250km with your group
Uhhhh... there are so many things wrong with this from a mechanical POV but ok.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 15, 2016, 03:03:24 pm
In the context of MWO they're a support weapon that you fire off while closing to ablate enemy armor before the battle becomes entrenched, and then a tool for keeping the enemy team distracted and less cohesive than they'd otherwise be.
All of that goes double for assaults. If you're playing an assault stuffed with lurms and nothing else, you have yourself to blame when you lose. A medium/heavy doing it is more forgivable because they're not depriving their team of nearly as much armor, but still not that great.
Post by: Wiles on September 15, 2016, 03:07:26 pm
QuoteBy the way, if your ever using lrms, don't be out at 500+km, be at 250km with your group
Uhhhh... there are so many things wrong with this from a mechanical POV but ok.
How so? You generally don't want to be out back all alone or someone could sneak around and blow up your mech. Also being closer means the missiles have less travel time to the target meaning they have less time to get into cover. Additionally if you're up near the front lines you can spot your own targets. The Artemis fire control system bonus only comes into play if you personally have line of sight on your target. If your mech has backup weapons (it should) then you can fire them more often if you're up near the front line, increasing your overall damage dealt.
Post by: Neonivek on September 15, 2016, 03:23:29 pm
QuoteBy the way, if your ever using lrms, don't be out at 500+km, be at 250km with your group
Uhhhh... there are so many things wrong with this from a mechanical POV but ok.
How so? You generally don't want to be out back all alone or someone could sneak around and blow up your mech. Also being closer means the missiles have less travel time to the target meaning they have less time to get into cover. Additionally if you're up near the front lines you can spot your own targets. The Artemis fire control system bonus only comes into play if you personally have line of sight on your target. If your mech has backup weapons (it should) then you can fire them more often if you're up near the front line, increasing your overall damage dealt.
Sort of a "Good luck even seeing 500 Kilometers into the distance" deal.
This is without getting into how unfathomable weapons that could shoot that distance would be without being large Missiles.
Post by: Wiles on September 15, 2016, 03:41:09 pm
Post by: umiman on September 15, 2016, 04:03:53 pm
....
...
... Metal Gear!
Post by: beorn080 on September 15, 2016, 04:20:14 pm
Post by: Rince Wind on September 15, 2016, 04:28:42 pm
Is there a way to have 1 on 1 matches with friends?
Post by: Wiles on September 15, 2016, 07:27:55 pm
Is there a way to have 1 on 1 matches with friends?
You click on the social icon at the bottom of the screen, then you click create private lobby under your friends list.
Unfortunately to do 1v1 both players would require premium time as one of the premium options is full teams. If both team leaders don't have premium time this defaults to yes and you'd need two full teams of 12 players to launch.
Post by: beorn080 on September 15, 2016, 07:53:21 pm
Post by: se5a on September 15, 2016, 08:26:35 pm
I'm not a fan of low slung arms, as I like the ability to be able to pop up over a hill and take a snipe.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 15, 2016, 08:53:35 pm
Just don't lurm on the 5M. It's a great LRMboat, but building SRMs on it turns it into a scary brawler.
Frankly though I wouldn't suggest mixing lurms with ERLLs, they're both long range poking weapons but have very different playstyles. If you're nosing around cover to fire the lasers you aren't locking and firing your lurms, and vice-versa (unless you're close enough to target directly, in which case you should just be using LLs or LPLs).
Post by: Flying Dice on September 20, 2016, 08:58:24 pm
Spoiler: I- Uh, I think I like it. (click to show/hide)
I wasn't sure at first, but then I got in close and popped a Kodiak and two Night Gyrs in about thirty seconds. It felt dirty and I liked it. So, yeah, shotguns = more funs.
Post by: Wiles on September 20, 2016, 10:50:20 pm
I love the LB X autocannons. I bought a Kodiak and fitted it with 4 LB 10 Xs. I like it better than the 2x UAC 5, 2x UAC 10 build. It runs cool and has plenty of ammo (I only ran out once, but that was after doing 1.3k damage so I didn't mind so much). The LB Xs are just so good at wrecking internal components.
I still have the ol' meta build on my Ilya Muromets with 3 UAC 5s and 3mlas. I actually used it for the first time in a long time for the faction warfare event. I wanted to go for a dakka drop deck. I had a King Crab 000B, Ilya and a Shadowhawk 5M (it has awesome UAC 5 quirks, with the cooldown module you can fire extremely fast). Unfortunately I couldn't go full dakka because those mechs only left room for a locust. I discovered that while you can't fit a UAC 5 on a locust you can fit a regular AC 5 with one ton of ammo if you take a std 100 engine (:P). It was a terrible idea that never saw the light of day.
Instead I bought the Locust 3S and fitted it with four SRM 2s. It only has enough ammo to do 500 damage in total which isn't super but I've been getting 300-400 quite consistently which I have a hard time doing with my other Locusts. While I have done ~700 in the Pirate's Bane that was only once and I usually don't do so well. I have been thinking of dropping the engine on the 3S down to an XL 180 to get an extra half ton of ammo on it. It drops the speed by ~8kph which I'm not too happy about but the locust goes so fast that I'm not sure it matters too much.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 21, 2016, 12:14:01 am
But yeah, the IM is still deffo a solid 'mech, even if the Cataphracts in general are shitty enough that I can't excuse buying two for the skills. Strangely tanky too, considering that you basically have to run an XL to get the most out of those ballistic slots. That said, now that I'm not running the chainsaw build it's nice being able to corner-peek with just the right side. Did consider running the fire control macro with some sort of unholy AC10 + AC5 + AC2 or UAC5 + 2xAC2 build for maximum random cockpit shake annoyance though.
Post by: se5a on September 21, 2016, 07:08:31 pm
Wiles: last night someone was saying "watch out for that kodiak on the other team, it's got 4 LBX10's on it" wonder if it was you, don't remember the handle. started with a P maybe.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 21, 2016, 08:14:25 pm
Post by: Wiles on September 23, 2016, 10:33:30 am
I don't usually buy mech packs but I did decide to go ahead and pick up the Night Gyr this time around. I was mostly interested because it makes a great ballistic platform. It's large, slow and not very agile but it does pack a good wallop. The Timber is probably still better with its smaller stature and better hitboxes along with its mobility.
I was interested in seeing what other people were putting on their Gyrs so I watched some videos on youtube. One of the videos I was surprised to see the supply cache at the end was awarded to me. I was on the same team as the player recording but I was never on screen in the video. :P
Post by: Rince Wind on September 23, 2016, 04:55:46 pm
Saving up for a stalker now, this update has a trial stalker which I've been having some fun with.
And it is so easy to get kmdd with it. I only need a couple IS heavies and I'm done with the challenge.
Though I don't have a mech bay right now, and I'd probably get mediums first, to master them.
I got the first Night Gyr with my Hunchback though.
Post by: se5a on September 24, 2016, 05:14:23 am
and even though you advised not to, I left three LRM10 with 360 ammo, just to see how it played.
It runs a little hot even with 6 double heatsinks, but not too bad if I'm careful, the LRM gives me something to shoot while getting into a good position to lase with, and advanced zoom makes for some nice damage to specific points.
the std engine is a nice change from having to worry about loosing left or right torso.
I'll give SRM a go at some point, and maybe look at swapping out to fero fibre for the frame to give me a bit more weight to play with. it's nice so far though.
Post by: Rince Wind on September 24, 2016, 05:29:53 am
Post by: Flying Dice on September 24, 2016, 07:25:50 am
Also switched my Locust 1E from 6x ML to 6x SPL and that's absolutely horrifying to deal with, a pinpoint accurate 24 damage alpha every ~1.9 seconds or so means that you can run in, circle while shooting legs, and after 2-4 alphas zoom away from the now-crippled 'mech, usually without taking any meaningful damage. Losing the nasty poke hurts, but the ability to kill or strip stuff with so little danger is crazy. Don't even need to aim above the waist except for already-damaged components, which means it's so much easier to knife-fight with since you don't have to look up.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 24, 2016, 12:43:36 pm
Please don't run TAG + 2x LRM5 Ravens. And if you do, please don't drop the ECM for more ammo or run straight into the enemy team without backup.
Post by: se5a on September 24, 2016, 03:20:35 pm
my 3L raven is pretty much useless on its own with only a single LP Laser, but horysheet, if I've got some good LRM on the team, and I can get in a good position to narc, it's a proxy killing machine. esp since the perks give it a >600 narc range.
ofc if the other team figures this out, and send a quick light to take care of me, it's pretty much over.
360 is not a lot of LRM ammo no, but it's pretty much just for use when someone has a strong lock on a target, and to force them to keep their head down. and I can still fire when I don't have LOS.
I've noticed that when I fire all three at once though, there apears to be explosions, and I'm not seeing enemy AMS.
Will LRM collide with each other? if so, does that mean it's possible to shoot down LRM with lasers and other 'normal' weapons? (I've tried, but good luck hitting them, still I'm interested to know if it is actually possible)
Post by: Rince Wind on September 24, 2016, 03:52:58 pm
Best match was the first 4G one today. 2 solokills, first one a King Crab, the other one a Hellbringer. More than 600 damage over all.
Last Premium Time match, first victory of the day - more than 5500XP.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 24, 2016, 04:33:32 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on September 24, 2016, 10:30:35 pm
As much as I liked that LB 10-X build on my CTF-IM, it just wasn't reliable enough, too many games where I couldn't get in and brawl properly and ended up having really shitty results (and unlike the 4x Kodiak builds you can't just ruin someone's day by clicking them once or twice), so I went back to the chainsaw build (but dropped one of the MLs for an extra ton of ammo). Had a couple of the solid 500-ish matches that it likes to deliver (one beautifully fucked up one where my UACs jammed four times in a row T.T), and then... this happened.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
So yeah. That's what happens when people ignore you long enough to expend all of your ammo on that build. Granted, I don't think I've ever actually had a match that good, the CTFs are usually favored targets since you have to run an XL to get decent weapon tonnage and the massive STs don't get much armor. The IM is only viable at all because it gets the triple ballistic hardpoints that (unlike that shitty 4X) aren't double-stacked in the arms (not to mention that the 4X can't even break 60kph without speed tweak). And that's why I will never have the IM elited, because all of the other CTFs are steaming turds; they're 70-tonners that have shitty mounts and less damage potential than 'mechs ten tons lighter. *rant over prematurely*
Almost got enough to buy a
Post by: MrRoboto75 on September 24, 2016, 11:30:11 pm
Post by: se5a on September 25, 2016, 12:54:59 am
Post by: Rince Wind on September 25, 2016, 03:03:08 am
Also too many people that just run in with their new mech instead of waiting until a full team is ready.
So now I usually run with the FRR on their TS.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 25, 2016, 08:43:04 am
Post by: Rince Wind on September 25, 2016, 08:55:15 am
Post by: Wiles on September 25, 2016, 08:20:42 pm
I might strip a heatsink or two for more ammo but other than that I am satisfied with it so far.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 25, 2016, 08:31:41 pm
Also I take back what I said about the Cataphracts. The 0XP is also salvageable (http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=311&l=227feb9d98de00638eab594ba390f4c4a8168566) and has great structure quirks too. Gonna pick one up and see how that works in practice. Since the upcoming free one looks decent, that rounds out at 3 of 8 variants not being useless trash.
Post by: Rince Wind on September 26, 2016, 02:45:27 am
Post by: Kanil on September 26, 2016, 06:28:12 am
Details. (https://mwomercs.com/news/2016/08/1609-2016-customer-appreciation-rewards-program)
Post by: Flying Dice on September 26, 2016, 07:29:54 am
We don't know how they're quirked yet, but the BJ-2 has four missile hardpoints(!!). Meanwhile the CTF-3L can mount MASC(!!) and has a good spread of energy hardpoints plus one torso ballistic mehfest.
The new Stalker is going to dominant dropdecks in FW too, it's got fucking ECM and the right hardpoints for laservomit hillhumping.
Post by: Kanil on September 26, 2016, 08:14:18 am
'course if it doesn't get good quirks, then you can say it isn't power creep, so that's nice too?
Post by: Flying Dice on September 26, 2016, 09:28:32 am
I half-expect the CTF to have LBX quirks since it comes with one stock. That + a bunch of pulses and MASC would be hilarious to watch, real Six Million Dollar man shit.
Post by: Rince Wind on September 26, 2016, 09:34:53 am
Edit: Ah, and don't you love people that complain about the team after they die without ever trying to coordinate anything beforehand? Assault pilots nonetheless, not someone in a Locust that dies if he stands around to assess the situation and call targets.
One more on the blocked list.
Post by: Kanil on September 26, 2016, 09:44:21 am
Next one's probably clan trash, so no shiny Cataphract for me. A shame, I really like the paint scheme.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 26, 2016, 10:41:37 am
Post by: Kanil on September 26, 2016, 10:46:37 am
Post by: Rince Wind on September 26, 2016, 10:52:22 am
Post by: Kanil on September 26, 2016, 10:55:31 am
Post by: Rince Wind on September 26, 2016, 11:36:58 am
Post by: Flying Dice on September 26, 2016, 04:49:06 pm
Post by: Kanil on September 26, 2016, 05:31:58 pm
10v12 won't work, by the way. If you didn't buff Clanners, they'd get butchered. If you buffed them, everyone would play Clan, because getting 50% more kills is better than not getting 50% more kills.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 26, 2016, 06:13:52 pm
Post by: Kanil on September 26, 2016, 07:58:49 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on September 26, 2016, 08:15:40 pm
Post by: Kanil on September 26, 2016, 08:29:50 pm
'course, I'm the kind of person who always responds to intentional FF with more intentional FF... so I rarely defuse the situation. It does have to be extremely goddamn obvious that it was intentional, but if you cross that threshold, I will happily kill you for it. (And it has to be weapons fire. I just assume anyone standing behind me is either dumb or trying to help, and shooting them won't fix either of those things.)
Post by: Flying Dice on September 26, 2016, 09:26:47 pm
I mean, that's half the reason why I make sure to set up a bunch of partial firing groups on 'mechs that aren't hill-humpers or corner peekers/have a set of hardpoints that covers a lot of surface area, it stops FF and saves ammo/heat that would have been wasted on terrain. Not everyone bothers and TBH I don't blame them, it's an extra mile that you usually don't need.
It does peeve me a bit though when someone FFs because they're trying to kill-secure when there are other enemies to shoot at (except lurms, because those poor bastards had no way of knowing that you'd be in the path of their missiles ten seconds after they fired). Not if it's genuine accidental from firing into a brawl, but if they just drag right across you trying for a clear angle. Sky/ground-flick your lasers when you tag friendlies, fuckers. :P
Post by: Wiles on September 27, 2016, 10:24:53 am
Would you folks be interested in having a Bay12 drop night once a month or so? We could all get together and play some group queue, or fool around in a private lobby if there are enough of us. Nothing serious, so don't be worried if you're new and inexperienced.
Post by: Rince Wind on September 27, 2016, 10:30:28 am
Just got the Johnny 5 achievement with my 4P, with six kills even, and then another 5 kills in the next match. And while I certainly profited from others opening torsos up, there were solo kills in both matches. I am getting better at aiming those lasers (and the equivalent in the other HBKs) and at not dying quickly.
It might help that at the moment a lot of people are focusing on heavies. But then there is more firepower on the battlefield than usual.
Re: kill securing: I also hate it when someone goes after a weaponless mech and just abandons the main combat because he can't kill it quickly and follows it to Armok knows where. Bonus points for getting shot in the back while doing so.
Edit: some bay12 action could be fun.
I am Supersonic Seasnail in MWO.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 27, 2016, 11:15:08 am
Post by: Wiles on September 27, 2016, 01:17:52 pm
Post by: Kanil on September 27, 2016, 02:26:13 pm
Edit: Damn. I didn't realize the sale ended later than the event. RIP Cameron Star warhorn.
Post by: MrRoboto75 on September 27, 2016, 03:44:46 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on September 27, 2016, 05:22:29 pm
Post by: Wiles on September 27, 2016, 09:50:43 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on September 27, 2016, 10:54:03 pm
Post by: Damiac on September 28, 2016, 10:42:51 am
So this weekend I basically played nonstop, and have managed to elite my 3 locusts (1E, 1V, and 1M). I like the 1E and 1M, not so much the 1V. Those MGs are good for busting already damaged mechs, but they don't seem to mesh well with my style.
With the 1E I focus on a lot of scouting and potshots. I have mine armed with 6ml, bap and an XL170 engine. Sure, I give up some speed, and shaved some armor from head and arms to make room, but it packs a good punch and I can still boogie out pretty quick.
The 1M I have 2 ML in the torso, and a 2 and 4 SRM launcher. Excellent for murdering other lights, but also great for weaving through the enemy and blasting them with missiles as I streak by.
I do wish the game took into account what you're piloting when it awards XP and match points. It doesn't seem fair that when I cap 3 bases and do 400 damage with my 20 tons I get the same reward as the guy in an assault shooting LRMS from max range.
Speaking of tons... does the matchmaking try to get equal tonnage on each side? Or is it just equal amounts of lights, meds, heavies, and assaults? What I'm wondering is am I doing my team a favor by using so few tons, meaning the rest of my team should be bigger, or am I essentially just wasting tonnage that could have gone into a bigger light?
Post by: Wiles on September 28, 2016, 10:56:36 am
I sold some redundant XL engines I had lying around so that I could pick up a couple more heavy mechs in the sale. I purchased a Catapult K2 and a Rifleman 3N. They are both pretty fun but I feel like I die a little too quickly in the Catapult. I guess I have to get used to that and play more cautiously.
Quote
Speaking of tons... does the matchmaking try to get equal tonnage on each side? Or is it just equal amounts of lights, meds, heavies, and assaults? What I'm wondering is am I doing my team a favor by using so few tons, meaning the rest of my team should be bigger, or am I essentially just wasting tonnage that could have gone into a bigger light?
I think that it tries to match the game based on similar tonnages but honestly I don't think 10-15 tons makes a huge difference if you were trying to go for a bigger light. At the end of the day you're probably better off in a Locust than in a heavier light anyway. The locust is one of the better Inner Sphere lights right now since they are so small and agile.
Post by: Damiac on September 28, 2016, 12:01:47 pm
The way I see it, if I can spot a couple enemies early on, do a bit of damage, maybe hold a couple targets for my allies to lrm, I've paid my entry fee for my 20 tons. If I manage to score a kill or two I feel that I've more than pulled my 20t of weight.
The only time I feel like I'm a big benefit to my team is conquest mode. I zip around capturing points, run back and flank the enemies for some confusion, then run back out and capture some more.
It's awesome when the light lance has a couple fast guys, then we can go and wolfpack stragglers. It's so satisfying to blow up the big guys with 2 little locusts circling their legs driving them crazy.
Post by: Kanil on September 28, 2016, 12:20:15 pm
Post by: MrRoboto75 on September 28, 2016, 01:01:19 pm
I picked up a Kit Fox S as my first light. Threw on a pair of medium lasers and a UAC/10. Usually bumble about the teams heavies and assaults, tossing in laser pew pews and cannon shots into whoever is not looking, and going from cover to cover hoping no one on the enemy team notices me for too long.
I hear the KFox is pretty inferior, but at least I look adorable.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 28, 2016, 01:29:14 pm
I sold some redundant XL engines I had lying aroundHERESY :P
But no seriously, engines are almost numero uno to never sell unless you don't intend to keep acquiring 'mechs, since they cost so damn much. If you let them build up you'll eventually have enough to fit to new 'mechs without needing to buy one/to swap between builds. Only thing worse is selling good modules.
Shit, and here I am running multiple chassis on similar-tonnage builds just so I can swap a single engine between them. :X
Post by: Kanil on September 28, 2016, 01:47:29 pm
Some engines really are pretty much useless (especially the ones that weigh the same as a larger engine.)
A lot are pretty handy to have around though, particularly the multiple of 25s, for the engine heatsinks.
Post by: Damiac on September 28, 2016, 02:20:29 pm
I want to do CW to get some loyalty for some free mech bays, but also it sounds like it might be fun to roll with people you sort of know.
I'm Penrose Willoughby ingame, feel free to add me or invite me or whatever the hell you do in this game with people you want to play with.
I noticed that about the redundant engines. Why would I take an engine like a 185 when a 190 is the same tonnage, but higher speed? As it stands now, I own 2 XL engines and 3 locusts who really don't work without XL engines. Is there any reason to hang onto the engines they came with? I can't imagine what I'd use a tiny non xl engine for...
I'd love to hear about good tactics for lights in the various modes, or even just skirmish.
In conquest and assault I can use my speed to capture objectives, or fall back on skirmish type strategies.
In skirmish for the most part I first go out ahead, try to scout out the enemy, usually take some light armor damage running away from whatever I find, then spend the rest of the fight either hanging out with my team if they are decently well grouped, or if not I just try to find enemies who are engaged with my allies and shoot them in the back.
That strategy works OK when the match is fairly even, but if my team starts losing I really can't do much to turn the tides in my little locust. I feel like my contributions have to happen early to have any impact, of course it's hard to tell how much it helped if I spot an enemy flank attempt or when I wreak a little havok on the enemy lines by flanking them.
EDIT: Oh yeah, I'm in EST time zone, that might be relevant. I play a lot on weekends and some after work during the week, but it's hard to line anything up in the 2-3 hours I have to screw around after work.
Post by: Wiles on September 28, 2016, 03:17:44 pm
And yeah I sold the engines that I had that were the same tonnage as slightly bigger engines (an XL 275 and an XL 250). I'm not sure where I got them, but I suspect I bought the XL 250 when I was new and didn't know it weighed the same amount as the XL255. I tend to swap out my XLs between mechs because they are so expensive.
Quote
I'd love to hear about good tactics for lights in the various modes, or even just skirmish.
In conquest and assault I can use my speed to capture objectives, or fall back on skirmish type strategies.
In skirmish for the most part I first go out ahead, try to scout out the enemy, usually take some light armor damage running away from whatever I find, then spend the rest of the fight either hanging out with my team if they are decently well grouped, or if not I just try to find enemies who are engaged with my allies and shoot them in the back.
It depends on the map, the game mode and the light mech in question for me. Sounds like you've already got it mostly figured out though.
I find that I'm usually in one of three modes. Long range harasser, scout/skirmisher or support.
For the long range harasser I'll use a fast mech with 1 or 2 ER Large lasers and find an angle on the enemy team where they won't notice me straight away and start firing on them. Once they notice me I'll go somewhere else and repeat the process. If you can tempt them into chasing you that is a bonus because there will be a few less mechs skirmishing with your team.
For a scout once again I'll use a fast mech. I'll cautiously go to where they usually end up on the map and pop a UAV (though I don't recommend wasting your cbills on uavs if you're new and saving up for new mechs). What I do next depends on which mech I'm in. If I'm in a fast, small, hard hitting light I'll try and find stragglers or LRM boats and shoot their backs out. If I'm not confident that I can do that I'll just go hang out with the team and fight with them. It really depends on the map what I do as well. In Polar I'll scout then go back to the team because people are usually pretty tightly grouped on that map and it's easy to get stuck without much cover. On Terra Therma I'll run around to the ramp the enemy is at and shoot them in the back because more often than not they are looking in to the middle. Last time I played Terra I killed two heavies in my cheetah before they turned around and started shooting at me. :P
For a support light I'll usually be in something a bit bigger and slower and I'll just go find the biggest meanest mech on the team and hang out with them all game. It can be useful if you bring something to help them as well like ECM. One important job you have is to keep the enemy lights from killing your slow mechs that have a hard time hitting agile light mechs. I don't chase them too far though because they'll usually just lead you back to their team. Sometimes I'll break out my triple AMS Kitfox when LRMs seem more popular than usual. I've considered buying the AMS overdrive module to make it even better but I always end up buying something else instead because to be honest I don't use AMS all that often.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 28, 2016, 04:51:56 pm
As Wiles said, if you're not sure what to do with a light, you can always hang out with your assaults to keep enemy lights off them and focus on burning down their targets. That's one place where boating small pulses on Locusts can be really good (another is sneaking around legging things), since you can chase down other lights no problem and ruin their day.
Spoiler: More Locust fanboy rambling (click to show/hide)
Post by: MrRoboto75 on September 28, 2016, 05:10:24 pm
Post by: Kanil on September 28, 2016, 05:12:47 pm
Why would I take an engine like a 185 when a 190 is the same tonnage, but higher speed?You wouldn't, at least not in MWO.
However all the construction rules are taken straight from TT, and in TT your choice of engines is more limited. A 'mech that can run a 190 engine is unable to mount a 185 (and vice versa) so the fact that they're the same weight doesn't matter. Furthermore, since XL engines are just half the weight of a standard engine, they're much more likely to be rounded to the same weights (IE: a 10 ton and 9.5 ton engine are both 5 tons when XL'd)
Post by: Wiles on September 28, 2016, 05:56:58 pm
It will show you where the hitboxes are on mechs. I was surprised to find out how big the side torsos actually are on a lot of mechs. Also knowing which inner sphere mechs usually run XL engines is helpful to know when to aim their side torso instead of their center torso. I'm not sure what a good resource for that is other than checking the popular builds out on metamechs. Although if you're playing lights you're probably better off legging them like Flying Dice wrote.
Post by: Rince Wind on September 28, 2016, 06:22:53 pm
Though I have to admit that the payload is kinda pathetic for 75t now with 3 LPL and 2 MPL. I would also like some more range, so I have to experiment a bit.
And about the engines...my 3 HBKs have to share a single 250, the Marauders use the same 300 one. But hey, the Locust has its own XL 190! I need more mechbays, though I only have about 5mil at the moment, so couldn't really afford another Mech and its armament/engine/stuff.
I can probably play on Friday and Sunday, so whatever suits you best. Mic is available and I am also on EST (wait, is that European or Eastern Standard Time? I am in Europe.)
Post by: Kanil on September 28, 2016, 06:32:28 pm
Post by: Wiles on September 28, 2016, 10:48:01 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on September 28, 2016, 11:12:40 pm
Another good learning resource is this thread on the mwo forums: http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/166699-hitbox-localization/Well, it depends. If you're running a close-range brawler light, absolutely go for legs, since you're guaranteed to always be able to hit them regardless of your angle of attack. If you aim for the body while circling, you spread damage across eight of their ten armor elements, and if you're doing <5 damage to any given component per shot it'll take a day and a year to get through a lot of stuff.
It will show you where the hitboxes are on mechs. I was surprised to find out how big the side torsos actually are on a lot of mechs. Also knowing which inner sphere mechs usually run XL engines is helpful to know when to aim their side torso instead of their center torso. I'm not sure what a good resource for that is other than checking the popular builds out on metamechs. Although if you're playing lights you're probably better off legging them like Flying Dice wrote.
OTOH if you're running a sniper or a splat light, aim for torsos or cored components, since you have better control/higher burst.
Like he said though, you'll develop a feel for when you should XL-check an IS 'mech, and the primary tell is if they're carrying a lot of weapon tonnage for their chassis and still moving pretty fast. IS lights and most mediums will always run XLs, so if you see an open shoulder go ahead and hit that. Among larger 'mechs, certain ones (Jagers especially) almost always run XLs, while others (Marauders, most assaults) almost never do.
Also worth doing is leg-checking certain 'mechs, namely Jagers and Riflemen, because people like to use builds that strip a lot of leg armor from them - they're natural hill-humpers and normally shouldn't be exposed much below the shoulders. If one or two shots makes the leg armor go orange, it's a sure sign that they skimped.
Another tip, when trying to backstab in the CT, aim for the crotch. It can be tricky to land all of your damage if you shoot for center-mass but almost nothing has side torsos that reach that far down.
Plenty of other 'mech-specific stuff. If you see a Hunchback always try to shoot the hunch since that mounts most of their firepower. Same deal in general, there are a lot of 'mechs and builds that corner-stack most of their firepower into one side of the 'mech, if you spot one go ahead and carve that off. If you're trying to kill a Stalker, just fucking leg them, they've got a shitload of armor and structure, wonky hitboxes, and a body perfectly shaped for shielding (speaking from experience, I've driven certain of my Stalkers into brawls against 4-5 enemy assaults/heavies and come out with 1-2 kills while also living long enough for the rest of the team to show up and clean house). If you spot someone boating standard PPCs or IS lurms and there's not too much around, go ahead and rush inside their minimum range and fuck their shit up even if you take hits doing it. If you're driving a really small, fast light (read: Locust, Arctic Cheater, Spider, &c.), you can be a dirty bastard: if you spot an enemy 'mech trying to back up away from your team, just run up and stand behind him, as long as there aren't other people there to shoot you off of him. Don't even need to shoot, just be the invisible immobile pebble until he dies.
I mean, there's a mountain of little things to pick up. One I'd suggest is ignoring the armor spreads on Smurfy until you're comfortable with a chassis, a lot of the meta ones strip the backs super-thin - great if you can keep your back safe, but it sucks massively to go down to one shot from behind. There's nothing more satisfying than one-tapping someone with an AC/20 to the rear CT, and if you use one of those 4-6 rear armor builds without playing carefully you'll be on the receiving end a lot. I usually settle down at 8 (10 for assaults, excepting only super-lights like the LCTs that barely get 20 armor on the front CT if they take 4 in the back) once I've got the skills finished and am comfortable with shielding on the chassis, anything less and a single gutsy splat light or well-positioned Gauss boat can ruin your day.
Post by: Wiles on September 28, 2016, 11:28:20 pm
Post by: Damiac on September 29, 2016, 07:42:04 am
I run it with 5 mls, a BAP, and as many double heat sinks as I can jam in.
My other locust is 2mls and 6 srms (2 on one side, 4 on the other). I had a great day with it in scouting mode in CW, everyone thought I was crazy for bringing a locust, but I won all three I was in, and got kills each game. Nobody seems to expect the little locust to pack such a punch. The missile build is not quite as good in 12 man games though, I tend to run out of missiles and then I'm stuck poking with my 2 little MLs.
The PB locust looks great, but of course it's MC only. I may end up saving my CW MC (assuming I ever get any) to buy that. EMC on a locust? Yes please.
I see a lot of people seem to prefer the SPL over the MLs on the 1E locust. I guess it makes sense, but I really like having the option to poke at range, especially when I end up far behind the enemy team fairly often. Although that's also one of my biggest issues right now, I tend to lose situational awareness chasing some guy and run into their entire team. Sometimes I can weave through, get some shots off, and get away, but not usually. I spent my XP early on buying ML range and cooldown, which are level 5 and 4 respectively. I'm now saving up for radar derp, which I should have done first, obviously... So I'm kind of committed to the MLs.
Oh, by the way, what is the best way to get into matches in CW mode? Is it just the 4 or 5 missions over on the side panel on the right, or is there more to it? I created a 1 man unit so I could be a merc, I was following some steam guide that seemed to suggest I should be a merc, but I only seem to get merc rep, and no loyalty rep, not even with the faction I have a contract with. I guess I don't quite get that mode... And I'm not even worried about the actual territory capturing stuff, just finding a match and doing some pew pew. So I can get more mech bays, to fill with more mechs, to do more pew pew with.
Post by: Wiles on September 29, 2016, 08:56:06 am
Oh, by the way, what is the best way to get into matches in CW mode? Is it just the 4 or 5 missions over on the side panel on the right, or is there more to it? I created a 1 man unit so I could be a merc, I was following some steam guide that seemed to suggest I should be a merc, but I only seem to get merc rep, and no loyalty rep, not even with the faction I have a contract with. I guess I don't quite get that mode... And I'm not even worried about the actual territory capturing stuff, just finding a match and doing some pew pew. So I can get more mech bays, to fill with more mechs, to do more pew pew with.
Yes, the missions over on the right panel are the only ones available to you. Sadly the faction play mode doesn't have a lot of players most of the time outside of when they do faction play events.
You do only get merc rep from being a merc. Unfortunately they changed the system. It used to be easy to pledge loyalty to a faction and then break that contract once you got your mech bay reward. Now you're locked out of joining another faction for a while if you're a loyalist and decide to switch factions.
The best way to get matches is probably to join a unit that focuses on faction play. If you're interested in playing with a group but not interested in joining a unit sometimes specific factions have teamspeak servers where you can coordinate matches. I've never done that though so I don't know much about it.
Post by: Rince Wind on September 29, 2016, 10:55:09 am
I can only speak for the FRR, and they are usually chill and have groups most evenings. You don't have to be in a group and can still drop with them. They have a TS server and when in a group with them it is usually used, especially as they have a room for people looking for group.
(damn, I want to keep writing "fleet" instead of group, damn you Eve.)
Post by: Damiac on September 29, 2016, 12:01:58 pm
It's trickier than it looks. I mean... an assault with a ton of LRMS is simple enough, but one that's actually in the fray... in many ways it's harder than playing a fragile light. And it seems like a lot of that extra weight it taken up by armor, rather than firepower. In an assault I'm doing double the alpha strike damage of my light... but in a much, much slower frame.
Post by: Rince Wind on September 29, 2016, 12:07:22 pm
I play my Marauders in quickplay from time to time, but I am better with the mediums.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 29, 2016, 01:03:38 pm
Can't play my one Marauder at all though, it's way too slow for the poke game it's designed to play. The only heavies I have any success with at all are my Kilya, and my Quickdraw 5K when I play it as a laservomit poptart.
It's a dilemma, too. You're carrying lots of armor, so you need to be up front tanking, but you're also carrying lots of weapon tonnage so you need to stay alive to use it. In a group drop you can organize rotating people in and out of the front line, but with PuGs it's basically either camp and get blamed or tank and get blamed.
Post by: Damiac on September 29, 2016, 03:07:11 pm
With that said, I would like to actually get better someday...
I have noticed if I use trial mediums and heavies I tend to do much more damage, and thus get a lot more points per match. With a light my tier bar stays pretty constant (right about lined up with the E in minimize)
If I use mediums or heavies in a few matches, it seems to go up a bit more. But I feel with a somewhat more organized team, which I'd hope to see a bit more of in tier 4, my scouting and flanking would actually accomplish a bit more.
Post by: Kanil on September 29, 2016, 03:13:48 pm
But I feel with a somewhat more organized team, which I'd hope to see a bit more of in tier 4, my scouting and flanking would actually accomplish a bit more.
Nope. Not happening. No way in hell.
Higher tier players aren't smarter, or work better in a team, they're just more competent at solo play. For example, it's not uncommon for a tier 5 to be completely oblivious to the fact that you're shooting them in the back (lights are particularly strong in high tiers because of this) but most T1s will react after the first shot. That makes them better players, but not better teammates.
Edit: Well, I mean, they're better teammates, but they're still really bad. There's no promised land where everyone is competent and works together well.
Post by: MrRoboto75 on September 29, 2016, 03:24:02 pm
Post by: Rince Wind on September 29, 2016, 03:30:41 pm
Coordination is the biggest difference imo. A bunch of mediocre players that play together are stronger than the same amount of better players that play for themselves.
If you manage a positive win/loss ration you should get into higher tiers. If it is the same, then as well, very slowly.
I do pretty bad in CW. Where in a normal winning match I usually do 450 or more damage in QP (with Hunchbacks), I often only manage about as much in all 4 mechs together in a CW game.
Post by: Damiac on September 29, 2016, 03:31:24 pm
At the same time, CW mode will become super popular and evenly populated, and matchmaking times will be reduced to 3-4 seconds.
Also, Donald Trump will finally admit that this whole campaign was really just a clever marketing ploy for the apprentice, and will drop out.
I assume around this time I'll find out my long lost great great aunt will have left me millions of dollars and three castles, and the title of Archduke of... somewhere.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 29, 2016, 03:42:26 pm
And it doesn't make a lick of difference beyond it being slightly more likely that someone who isn't you will carry. You don't need to be negative, but you need to go in with the assumption that if you don't carry a lance's weight or more your team will lose, and play to that. Obviously if the team is in comms and working together that's an exception, but if it's dead silent nascaring or whatever you gotta do the lift. Also, tier MM is wider than you'd expect: I've been matched repeatedly with people that I know for a fact are sat at the tier cap in tier 1, and I'm still only midway up tier 3.
Damiac, one thing to keep in mind with lights is that, since match score heavily orients around damage and kill assists, you have to play a lot more carefully in a light to get a good damage count but can also stay alive long enough to rack up assists (if your team doesn't instantly fold). 'Course you can also do stuff like running up to a forward vantage point (on certain maps) and hammering R for the scout points, but the easiest is to make sure to get some damage on as many targets as possible (for assist points) and try to stay alive while doing more damage.
It's especially easy with a sniper light, which is why I recommend the Raven-3L so much: super long range, very difficult to pin down and kill. With an ERLL/PPC light you should manage to get at least a 50-60% assist ratio once you know how to handle the 'mech, and it's often quite easy to get a full 12 assists (minus however many kills you secure) on good maps.
And assists are granted for any damage, even if you graze something at 1400m with an ERLL, while giving comparable rewards to kills (though without the extra from destroying components &c. that you'd get for bashing someone's 'mech to bits). Still not sure if it counts assists from enemy deaths that occur after you leave a match, so stay and spectate until the end - you can help your team, too, giving them call-outs and relaying information about what enemy 'mechs are left and where they're damaged.
But yeah, comms are actually really important. If you don't have one, think about at least picking up a cheapo boom mic to wear around your neck or something, even if you're just calling out obvious targets for focus fire or letting people know where that ECM light was heading you're helping keep people organized. PuG play in MWO is different from a lot of other games in that most people are actually willing to work together if someone steps up to call the drop.
Post by: Wiles on September 29, 2016, 06:58:57 pm
Also, tier MM is wider than you'd expect: I've been matched repeatedly with people that I know for a fact are sat at the tier cap in tier 1, and I'm still only midway up tier 3.
I've read on the MWO forums that people in tier 3 will get put into matches on both sides of the spectrum. I'm tier 3 as well and I've had matches where someone says "this is my first game!" but I've also had matches where I've played with streamers that I know are in tier 1.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 29, 2016, 07:21:15 pm
Still befuddled at how there are so many matches on SEA servers with 2-3 people in that region and the rest of the match with 300ms+ ping because they're in the Americas or Europe.
Post by: Wiles on September 29, 2016, 09:50:53 pm
Post by: Rince Wind on September 30, 2016, 06:30:49 am
Post by: se5a on September 30, 2016, 12:54:50 pm
Post by: Rince Wind on September 30, 2016, 02:22:44 pm
Anyway, trying the Marauder 5M with 5 ER LL and so far I am doing better. The low arms take getting used to when you usually use the Hunchback.
Post by: se5a on September 30, 2016, 06:45:12 pm
doh.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 30, 2016, 09:13:54 pm
Post by: Rince Wind on October 01, 2016, 11:17:38 am
I am also done with today's challenges and had what was probably my best match yet.
I used the trial Stalker as I don't have an assault yet. Map was Frozen City, skirmish. Me and some others pushed through the valley, then up to "their" side. I let it rain with the LRMs and shot Tag/lasers when I could, doing quite a lot of damage and getting the necessary KMMD. Both teams lost mechs quite evenly. When there were not many left, I made my way back to the other side to meet up with a badly beat up Marauder and a Puma. Killed a cored Vulture along the way. Getting up I realized that the MAD had only one leg and no side torsos. Oh well...
I had already seen a Mist Lynx (I am mixing clan and IS names again...), no idea what the other two were. Well, the next one to show itself was a Locust. It killed the Puma, but got its leg destroyed, which made it an easy target. I don't think he ever saw me as I cam from his flank. Managed to destroy a leg of the Mist Lynx, but then the last one showed up, a Phoenix Hawk. Funny, because we had already tangled on the other side of the map. He killed the Marauder, the Mist Lynx flew by and I shot his remaining leg.
Luckily the PHX kept running in circles instead of trying to stay in my back. We both shot out each others leg at almost the same time, both were down to two medium lasers. But my leg could take more damage than his'. :P
That was pretty intense, and I got 6 KMMDs out of it. :D Also 2 or three solo kills and the first time I did more than 900 damage...901 to be precise.
The hardest one for me was getting the KMMD with the heavy. I switched to the MAD 3R and use 4 PPCs now. But I am still not that convinced.
I am not yet sure what to get with my next mechbay. The 3rd Marauder? Or an assault (probably Stalker)? It has to be IS though.
Post by: Flying Dice on October 01, 2016, 01:25:01 pm
If you get a Stalker, the 5M doubles as a great splat assault (5x SRM6+Artemis) and lurmboat, just remember to open the ear flaps at match start. The 4N is the best laserboat. There's going to be a variant with ECM out eventually, too. Sadly if you want ballistics your only option is to buy a Misery (though it's still pretty good even now). As long as you don't put Gauss + ERPPCs/ERLLs into it like a selfish scrub. :P
Post by: Rince Wind on October 01, 2016, 01:56:45 pm
2 UAC5s on the 3R is ok, but I can only put on enough ammo to last long enough in faction play, it is not enough for quickplay. It is also a bit weird in that way that the UACs are good for peeking over hills, while the PPCs work around corners. 4 PPCs seems fine right now. (And some machine guns if something is closer than 90m, not that they help much.)
What is the "wub" meta?
If I got a Stalker I would want some missile capacity. I really like the Royal one in Megamek (-3Fb), and the trial version is not too far off, as I prefer to have no more than 3 weapon groups. Stock mechs usually lack ammo as well for MWO style play. SRM Stalker sounds nice though, so far I think I am a better brawler than sniper. Aside from LRMs, anyone can use those. Though you can suck with them as well. Or die because you didn't bring a backup weapon that can hit stuff up close/when you are out of ammo.
Post by: Flying Dice on October 01, 2016, 02:24:54 pm
RE: Stalkers, here's my STK-5M (http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=46&l=e999d4fa15d415bef432b8325fe72664796e448b). I group the SRMs into torso + arm groups both to avoid ghost heat and to let me use the arm ones independently. The MPLs give a bit of extra oomph when you really need to kill something quick/are trying to shoot lights or UAVs/manage to run out of ammo without being killed/stripped. Obviously the lone ML is just for zombie mode.
But hell, if you really want to, that's a 93 damage alpha, and it'll only put you to 63% heat on a heat-neutral map. If you get the SRMs on target that's a one-shot on most any light or medium, even at 300m out. At knife range you can two-shot assaults through the CT.
Post by: Rince Wind on October 01, 2016, 02:31:29 pm
Ah, I already kinda figured that pulses are the go to option right now. I still prefer my HBK-4P with standard mediums, but I think I put pulses on the -4SP. Which makes it a smaller version of you Stalker I guess. Artemis had to go though.
Post by: Flying Dice on October 01, 2016, 02:33:24 pm
Post by: Wiles on October 01, 2016, 06:38:37 pm
The first build I tried was sticking a UAC 20 and two flamers on it. It was great fun at first because I could hit pretty hard for a little guy and make bigger mechs shut down. The Adder is pretty slow for a light mech though and I had to get up close and personal with that build. I just ended up dying a lot, sometimes I could take a heavier mech or two down with me, sometimes I couldn't. Overall it didn't feel very consistent.
Next up was playing with 4 streak launchers, 2x SSRM6 and 2x SSRM4. It did a nice amount of damage but it spread it so very badly. One match I was engaged with a cataphract pilot who had an unusually bad shot so I got to unload a lot of streak volleys into him. I stripped the armour off all of his front torsos, legs and arms. It was ridiculous. One of his buddies eventually intervened and finished me off. I quickly decided that build was not going to work.
After that I tried LRMs. I'm not a huge LRM fan but I am really liking them on the Adder. You don't play it like an LRM boat at all though, you get close enough so that there is not a lot of travel time between you and them making most of your missiles hit your target (but not so close that you incur the minimum range damage penalty). I also found that it was easy enough to hit bigger mechs in the center a lot of the time so I wasn't spreading damage like crazy. Overall this has been the most fun I've had on the Adder so far. Though I don't enjoy it as much as I enjoy playing faster lights, the Adder is pretty sluggish comparatively.
Post by: MrRoboto75 on October 01, 2016, 11:12:22 pm
I mostly just use the LRMs when moving between sniping spots or when there's nothing in line of sight.
Post by: Rince Wind on October 02, 2016, 04:37:32 am
I liked the Adder in MW4, no faster way to get 2 ERPPCs around.
Can you take off the flamer in MWO? Because according to the TT rules it is in all configurations.
Post by: Wiles on October 02, 2016, 07:36:20 am
You can take the flamer off of the Adder. You couldn't originally but I guess they realised the Adder wasn't in the best of places so they changed it. Hopefully someday they'll do something similar for the poor ol' Mist Lynx.
Post by: Flying Dice on October 02, 2016, 08:22:33 am
Post by: Rince Wind on October 02, 2016, 08:30:10 am
If there is hardly any locked equipment, what are pods for? Do you get different hardpoints with them?
Do we still do something this evening?
I'll be online now, trying to get the next 5 challenges done. So if anyone wants to drop together send me a friend invite. (Supersonic Seasnail)
Post by: Flying Dice on October 02, 2016, 08:31:50 am
Post by: Wiles on October 02, 2016, 09:16:34 am
Do we still do something this evening?
Still planning for 7pm est if others are still interested.
Post by: Rince Wind on October 02, 2016, 09:38:35 am
But hey, we started early anyway.
Post by: Flying Dice on October 02, 2016, 09:44:39 am
Post by: Wiles on October 02, 2016, 10:35:43 am
That is 1 am here. Tomorrow is a public holiday, but I probably won't be long then.
But hey, we started early anyway.
Ah sorry about that. If we plan on dropping together as a group again after tonight's drops maybe we can plan for midday EST instead so it's not too early in North America and not too late in Europe.
I'll be on and off today though if anyone feels like playing together. I really want to grind some C-bills so I can pick up a mech from the clan sale.
Post by: Flying Dice on October 02, 2016, 01:07:22 pm
Post by: Wiles on October 02, 2016, 02:28:09 pm
I didn't realise they had the reputation of spreading damage. What makes it different than its inner sphere counterpart (outside it being an ultra ac that can double tap and jam) that would make it spread damage though? It's not like the other clan autocannons, it only fires one pellet per trigger pull.
Post by: Rince Wind on October 02, 2016, 02:36:11 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on October 02, 2016, 04:38:53 pm
This is the first time I've used the clan uac 2 weapon system so I can't say I have a lot of experience with it. I didn't notice a whole lot of spread that couldn't be accounted for by my shaky aim :PThe IS UAC/5 is basically a normal AC that can double-tap. You fire one shell, that's five damage. You double-tap, that's ten, and so on and so forth. The Clan UACs spread their damage out across multiple shells. Take, for example, the cUAC/20, which fires four shells every time you pull the trigger. Each of those shells does five damage. What that means, obviously, is that you almost never get all the damage on a single point.
I didn't realise they had the reputation of spreading damage. What makes it different than its inner sphere counterpart (outside it being an ultra ac that can double tap and jam) that would make it spread damage though? It's not like the other clan autocannons, it only fires one pellet per trigger pull.
Worse still, the ammo count per ton is per shell, not per trigger pull, so you go through ammo anywhere from 2x to 4x faster than with standard cACs, depending on what size you're using.
In that respect, the cUACs are actually pretty shit compared to the IS UAC/5 (barring the fact that they can get UAC/10 and 20s), and only really good compared to cACs because they take fewer critical slots, do more cockpit shake, and can still double-tap in a sense. You get way less mileage out of each ton of ammo, spread your damage a lot more, and have to deal with jam chance. They're mainly viable for Clan dakka builds because of the lower cooldown and better blindness/shake working well for brawling, you can cram more into slot-limited omnimechs, and because (IIRC) each shell has independent crit chance.
Post by: Kanil on October 02, 2016, 04:54:44 pm
It's mechanically identical, other than the reduced damage/increased RoF/other obvious things like that.
It's a lot of tonnage for not a lot of damage, but it fires absurdly fast (and chews through it's ammo with abysmal damage-per-ton stats...)
I believe the C-UACs fire one pellet for the 2, two pellets for the 5, three pellets for the 10, and four pellets for the 20, but I've only tested the 2 and 20.
Edit: Unless you're saying the AC/2 spreads damage because it does so little, and fires so quickly? In which case, it absolutely does spread damage like crazy -- but no more so than the IS AC/2.
Post by: Flying Dice on October 02, 2016, 08:05:26 pm
Definitely not saying that about single-shell AC/2 fire of any sort, not with how I love my BJ-1. It's a great support weapon and racks up a shitload of damage if you stay alive, and turns into a great brawling weapon late when everyone is damaged. It's mostly not in meta because meta is still all about the big pinpoint alphas, with a side dose of splat/dakka in PUG play.
And hey, thanks for dropping all, that was fun!
Post by: Kanil on October 02, 2016, 09:41:58 pm
No, no, I just coulda sworn I remember it being a two-pellet split on the cUAC/2. I guess I was wrong.
It fires so fast you could probably spectate someone using it and just assume it's firing two pellets automatically. Looking at UAC Jam quirks, I kinda wonder how a Nova with a bunch of UAC/2s would work... (Edit: *checks Nova podspace* Nevermind.)
And yeah, it was fun. I pretty much just sucked, but I got my Stormcrow basic'd. If I can get one more basic'd before the sale ends, I can end up getting all three on sale and that'll be great.
Post by: Damiac on October 03, 2016, 08:08:09 am
I bought the blackjack 1, 3, and... the other ballistic one without jump jets.
I've got them all basic, working my blackjack 1 through the elite stuff next. Wow what a change from the locust, going from 170 to 80 kph.
My loadouts are:
1 erppc, 4mpl
2 ac2, 2ml, 1mpl
1 ppc, 1 gauss (I don't like this one very much, no jump jets)
Jump jets are so nice on some maps. And the blackjack can aim it's torso down at some pretty incredibly steep angles, so you can take pretty high sniper spots and be able to hit with your torso mounted weapons.
Post by: Wiles on October 03, 2016, 08:11:35 am
Worse still, the ammo count per ton is per shell, not per trigger pull, so you go through ammo anywhere from 2x to 4x faster than with standard cACs, depending on what size you're using.
The ammo count is adjusted to be on par with its inner sphere counterparts. For example 1 ton of cUAC 10 ammo has 60 shells. the cUAC 10 fires 3 shells at once giving you 20 volleys just like the inner sphere AC10.
I've played around with the cUAC 2 on the Adder some more and I feel that the biggest problem with it is the jam chance. You fire so quickly that you're always rolling to the dice to see if your weapon jams or not. Even with the Adder's 30% jam chance reduction I was jamming a lot. Back to PPCs it is I guess!
Post by: Rince Wind on October 03, 2016, 08:44:27 am
Now I'm just trying to master my 3rd HBK.
It was fun dropping with you yesterday.
Post by: Damiac on October 03, 2016, 09:09:41 am
1. How are they rewarded? Does it have anything to do with match performance?
2. Are keys rewarded at random, or do you just get 2 for free at the beginning? (At least, I got 2 somehow, I never bought them)
3. Is it even odds (i.e. 1 in 8) to get any given item, or is it weighted toward the more common items?
I ask because I just spent my 75 mcs I got for no apparent reason on keys, and opened three boxes, each containing an MC reward (1000, 500, and a mech bay, essentially 300 mc)
It makes good sense if there are even odds, but each time I got a common (light blue) item. Was that just bad luck, or are they weighted that way?
Post by: Rince Wind on October 03, 2016, 09:25:52 am
You only get those keys at the beginning, or sometimes as rewards in challenges.
The rest I cannot answer with any authority, but it seems to be weighted in favour of common things. Hardly ever got anything else and now only open them if I get free keys.
Post by: Flying Dice on October 03, 2016, 09:30:19 am
Omnimechs don't mount IS ACs, and the cACs have the exact same ammo count as the cUACs per ton. The actual tradeoff is shooting faster (with more damage spread) in exchange for carrying far less ammo per ton. An omnimech mounting cACs has room for a solid energy secondary armament and other nice stuff, one carrying cUACs is basically just the cUACs, their ammo, and maybe a cML or two.Worse still, the ammo count per ton is per shell, not per trigger pull, so you go through ammo anywhere from 2x to 4x faster than with standard cACs, depending on what size you're using.The ammo count is adjusted to be on par with its inner sphere counterparts. For example 1 ton of cUAC 10 ammo has 60 shells. the cUAC 10 fires 3 shells at once giving you 20 volleys just like the inner sphere AC10.
The situation is the same for the UAC/5 and AC/5... except that every UAC/5 shell fired is five damage. So the IS UAC/5 is just flat-out better in every respect save jam chance than the AC/5.
I mean I think that that's a good thing, balance-wise, but the cUAC/AC tradeoff exists. The only reason I can see for almost nobody using cACs is because their cooldown times are shit. Every AC except cACs has the same cooldown, more or less, but they get a big extra chunk slapped on... basically to stop people from only spamming them for dakka. The cAC/20 has what is effectively a flat 14% cooldown penalty, for example. You gotta take both the elite skill and the fully upgraded cooldown module just to overcome that, and then you're still far behind someone using the same with any other AC/20 variant.
Post by: Rince Wind on October 03, 2016, 09:48:31 am
Post by: Wiles on October 03, 2016, 09:49:21 am
The regular clan autocannons are just placeholders and are inferior to the clan UACs. They spread damage the same, they take more crit slots and they weigh same. They have been placeholders for a very long time though, I don't know what they plan on doing with them. I think they should just remove them and give the ability to use slugs in the LBx autocannons like you're supposed to be able to.
Post by: Rince Wind on October 03, 2016, 09:54:05 am
Post by: Flying Dice on October 03, 2016, 10:18:35 am
Post by: Kanil on October 03, 2016, 02:57:23 pm
They could start by making the cACs smaller+lighter than the cUACs.
I don't see them ever doing that. cACs are supposed to have the same weight/slots as cLBX ('cause they are cLBX) and PGI doesn't change the construction rules.
They also don't do much coding, so they'll probably never add ammo switching, so we're going to have cACs indefinitely. They could maybe adjust pellet counts or cooldown rates to make them not strictly inferior to cUACs, but I wouldn't hold your breath on that one.
Post by: Rince Wind on October 03, 2016, 04:05:19 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on October 03, 2016, 04:54:40 pm
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see shit like LACs, UACs that behave like they do in tabletop, differentiation between UACs and Rotary ACs (which is what the IS "UAC/5" in MWO actually is, and what the cUACs are treated as, not including the damage splitting), LB-Xes that can swap ammunition types, company variants with different performance profiles - heck, maybe even HVACs. But we're almost certainly not going to, so there's no point splitting hairs over parts of the MWO AC mechanics matching tabletop when the broad strokes already don't; just balance that shit properly, yanno?
Post by: Rince Wind on October 03, 2016, 05:07:21 pm
That they are changing a lot of things is obvious, as otherwise clan would just slaughter IS, same with the lesser efficency of the DHSs.
Post by: Flying Dice on October 03, 2016, 06:31:21 pm
In BTech UACs are literally just autocannons that have variable fire, they can either function like standard ACs or fire twice as fast. The tradeoffs are increased heat generation, shaking the mounting pretty badly, and (after long periods of rapid fire) eventually fusing a round in the chamber, the last of which mission-killed the UAC.
The IS "UAC/5" is a Rotary AC, the cUACs are just plain old ACs with the Rotary jamming mechanic slapped on top.
Incidentally, Rotaries were significant because they actually out-damaged UACs (and could fire at up to 6x the speed of standard ACs) while removing the chance of having a round fuse with the chamber due to heat. Their only downsides were increased heat gen and a jam chance which increased with each extra shot you took in a given turn.
Functionally speaking and according to tabletop crunch and fluff there are no UACs in MWO, just three variants of each AC, the Rotary AC/5, and the neutered LB-X ACs. The total number of AC variants in the game is about the same as the total number of manufacturer variants of two types of plain-jane AC in BTech lore, never mind UACs, LACs, Rotary ACs, HVACs, LB-Xes, and so forth.
S'why I say they should just balance it as is - if they're not going to give a toss about canon there's no point trying to pretend to respect it instead of balancing things properly. As is, cACs are flatly inferior to all other types, with basically no reason to take them instead of cUACs or even cLB-Xes. :-\
Post by: Kanil on October 03, 2016, 08:03:52 pm
Maybe I'm missing something about how they work in MWO, but they seem... pretty correct to me?
Edit: I've double checked all the stats for TT and MWO, and the only thing I've seen that doesn't appear right is the IS AC/5 has 80 more meters of range than it should, resulting in it being longer ranged than the IS UAC/5. But that's the AC/5's fault, not the UAC/5's...
Post by: MrRoboto75 on October 03, 2016, 09:29:58 pm
Although actually I'm considering a medium mech next. Probably a centurion. I have about 2.5 mil c-bucks, but I'll probably need around 4 mil.
Post by: Flying Dice on October 04, 2016, 12:51:35 am
I'm not really sure what your issue is with Ultra ACs, honestly. I really don't see what they do in game that they don't do in TT, with the exception that they can unjam.
Maybe I'm missing something about how they work in MWO, but they seem... pretty correct to me?
Edit: I've double checked all the stats for TT and MWO, and the only thing I've seen that doesn't appear right is the IS AC/5 has 80 more meters of range than it should, resulting in it being longer ranged than the IS UAC/5. But that's the AC/5's fault, not the UAC/5's...
Spoiler: Jesus fuck ignore all this shit why did I write it (click to show/hide)
Post by: Kanil on October 04, 2016, 01:50:34 am
TT: AC/5 fires one round every 10 seconds, UAC/5 fires either one round every 10 seconds, or two rounds every 10 seconds with a ~3% chance to permanently jam for the rest of the battle.
MWO: AC/5 fires one round every 1.66 seconds, UAC/5 fires either one round every 1.66 seconds, or two rounds every 1.66 with a ~15% chance to temporarily jam for a few seconds.
Weight, damage, crit slots, range and such are all identical to their TT counterparts as well.
I don't get how you get "UAC/5 is a RAC" and "cUAC is an amalgamation" out of that. Just because the jam isn't permanent?
Spoiler: Other thoughts. (click to show/hide)
Post by: se5a on October 04, 2016, 03:16:57 am
my stalker now has 4ERLL, and for when I get closer 2x6 SRM and an MPL.
...and 10 heat sinks.
AMS to help with the lurm thrown in for luck .
I still overheat though, especially if I start trying to alpha.
On chain the ERLL are not too bad, in fact I've even put the cooldown module for them on, as well as the extended range.
Post by: Flying Dice on October 04, 2016, 08:02:44 am
I still don't get why you don't think the MWO UAC isn't like the TT UAC. It's... a largely faithful reproduction of the TT weapon system pretty much?That's the main one, and it's a pretty honkin' big difference because it comes into play every time you fire. Every single time you do more than a single "shot per turn" you have a good chance of jamming. Unless I'm drastically misremembering, you could fire UACs at double-rate for a good while without worrying about misfiring, and jamming was still less likely for RACs than it is in MWO.
TT: AC/5 fires one round every 10 seconds, UAC/5 fires either one round every 10 seconds, or two rounds every 10 seconds with a ~3% chance to permanently jam for the rest of the battle.
MWO: AC/5 fires one round every 1.66 seconds, UAC/5 fires either one round every 1.66 seconds, or two rounds every 1.66 with a ~15% chance to temporarily jam for a few seconds.
Weight, damage, crit slots, range and such are all identical to their TT counterparts as well.
I don't get how you get "UAC/5 is a RAC" and "cUAC is an amalgamation" out of that. Just because the jam isn't permanent?
That's a massive difference in how they perform (both RACs and UACs) and how they're best used. In MWO you either double-tap or you spam a bunch and hope they don't all jam at once. In TT the tradeoff between UACs & RACs with ACs was that they couldn't carry special ammo and tended to waste ammo if you tried to spray them at longer ranges because of miss chances.
Ofc. it also helps that they literally made the UAC models RAC. The canon difference between ACs and UACs was that the latter used a specialized loading system. That was the principal difference between UACs and RACs as well, and why RAC jams were temporary while UAC misfires were mission-kills on the weapons: UACs heated up so much that a round would inevitably fuse in the single chamber of the single barrel. But then, if RACs fire three times faster still, why are their jams temporary? Because of the rotary in the name, they're gatling-style weapons with multiple barrels; their faster fire rate is because they rotate multiple barrels past the chamber rather than increasing the speed at which rounds are fired from the same barrel, and their temporary jamming is because jams are mechanical rather than thermal, simply rounds not being loaded properly during high-speed firing.
So the UACs are literally RACs with the firing rate nerfed.
Spoiler: Other thoughts. (click to show/hide)
Post by: Wiles on October 04, 2016, 02:21:50 pm
The only one I have right now is Illya Muromets but I will be getting the loyalty 'phract later in the month. I have pretty much narrowed it down to three contenders. First up is the 1X, it has some nice energy quirks, I thought it might work well with some large pulses and an AC 10. Next up is the 4x, it has 4 ballistic hard points and some decent ballistic quirks and I was thinking that it might be fun with four AC 5s and some back up lasers. Lastly I'm interested in the 0xp. Its quirks aren't as good as the other two but it comes with ECM. I'm leaning a bit towards the ECM variant but I'm not sure if the ECM on a Cataphract is useful enough to make it worth buying.
Post by: Flying Dice on October 04, 2016, 04:32:46 pm
Unrelated: all this faffing about balance and tech has me pumped up for the new BTech game. No clanners. Lostech that's rare as hell instead of piled on every 'mech. No hyper-specialized and optimized meta builds. The hilarious thought of a rag-tag group of mercs fluffed as Wolverine remnants managing to recruit Natasha Kerensky away from the awoo crew...
Post by: MrRoboto75 on October 04, 2016, 11:32:29 pm
Overheated and shut down at least 5 times but somehow survived the match, and even snagged a KMDD.
Post by: Wiles on October 05, 2016, 07:32:21 am
I think I'm done with faction warfare for a while. After the faction warfare event I was pretty close to merc rank 3 which gives a mechbay so I thought I'd keep playing until I hit it. I think I've played 8-10 matches since the event and I've lost all but one match. I keep dropping with randoms against 8-12 man groups. The last few have been the worst, I switched over to IS (I like to rotate) and I've been going up against 12 man Kodiak gen rush groups that will wipe your team and finish the match in about 5 minutes.
My most recent acquisition is a Commando 1B. It's not quite as fast as a locust but it is pretty close! And with all those durability quirks it can take a few hits before it get blown to bits. That extra little bit of survivability is helping me do better than I would in the locust. I've always read that the Commando is a bad mech but I have been enjoying it quite a bit.
Post by: MrRoboto75 on October 05, 2016, 03:37:58 pm
Post by: Rince Wind on October 05, 2016, 03:52:20 pm
Post by: Wiles on October 05, 2016, 07:28:48 pm
Commando was the first trial mech I ever piloted. It was alright, usually didn't do a whole lot per match. Quick, though.
I think the trial commando has a pretty lousy loadout, I don't know why you would take a std engine on a fast light. It really limits your speed and firepower.
Post by: Damiac on October 06, 2016, 10:24:03 am
I think I'm done with faction warfare for a while. After the faction warfare event I was pretty close to merc rank 3 which gives a mechbay so I thought I'd keep playing until I hit it. I think I've played 8-10 matches since the event and I've lost all but one match.
Wait are you saying you've witnessed CW games where the clan team didn't win? I've played about 10 of them, and clan always wins. The scouting ones are more even, but the 12v12 ones are clan dominated every single time I've played.
Post by: Flying Dice on October 06, 2016, 12:57:06 pm
But the only really meaningful advantage is organization. 12man vs. PuGs wins every time unless they suck a barrel of dicks and are playing drunk. PuG vs. PuG goes to the more organized PuG (or, failing that, to the one on defense).
Post by: Wiles on October 06, 2016, 01:39:54 pm
edit: I've found part of the problem with PUG on PUG Clan vs. Inner Sphere matches is that Inner Sphere pilots don't really play to their mechs strengths. If you're playing peek-a-boo at range you're probably going to lose the poke war against clan tech. People don't know how to push unless they are being badgered over the comms to do so.
Post by: Damiac on October 06, 2016, 02:07:40 pm
It is good to hear the clans don't always win though.
Post by: Rince Wind on October 06, 2016, 02:21:30 pm
It can't be so difficult to come up with things that are worth attacking/defending that are not necessarily behind such a wall (and they all employed the same guy who is the worst gate mechanics designer ever).
Post by: Wiles on October 06, 2016, 02:24:50 pm
And from my experience the majority of play is not PUG vs PUG in faction play (unless a faction play event is going on) it is usually 8-12 man groups versus PUGs. I'm sure there are a fair amount of group vs. group play too, but I'm not part of an active unit anymore so I no longer see that side of things.
Post by: Damiac on October 06, 2016, 03:47:06 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on October 06, 2016, 04:41:40 pm
If you do get stuck as IS PuG vs clanner group, try to get everyone to go hyper aggressive, get in their faces, fuck them up at point blank range. You'll still lose, but you'll get more points and feel better about it.
Post by: se5a on October 06, 2016, 05:52:50 pm
I've yet to see a PUG vs PUG FP match, (but then I don't always look).
What gets my goat (or amuses me greatly, depending on my mood) is *that guy* on my team, who rants about the rest of the team, and how our leader (which leader? we have a leader?) sucks. etc. etc. etc. and complains about losing, when we're a PUG team going up against a 12 man [unit].
I pretty much go into the call to arms matches expecting to loose.
Sometimes we have someone who's a good leader and we have fun while losing (and very rarely even win).
Sometimes we just have a mediocre loose, but meh, we're playing at piloting big robots, so who cares.
Sometimes we just have *that guy* and it's a miserable un-fun loose.
I've recently re-jiggered my Raven 3L
now instead of a single large pulse laser, it has two medium pulse lasers, and a bigger engine.
the two medium pulse have more damage than the single large, and are way lighter, allowing me to fit a larger engine.
It's been surprisingly effective like this, I feel like it's tipped from being useless damage wise to a good knife fighter, while still keeping the support role with narc and tag.
the XL 270 has given it a good speed boost, which is probably more effective than the little bit of extra damage from the switch to medium pulse lasers.
Post by: Flying Dice on October 06, 2016, 11:33:37 pm
Post by: Damiac on October 07, 2016, 08:50:38 am
So... anyone want to buy a lightly used XL220 engine? Only been blown up a handful of times, it's pretty much good as new :P.
Post by: Flying Dice on October 07, 2016, 11:18:43 am
That said, double heatsinks are excellent crit-padding, so there's some merit to stuffing IS mechs full of them as long as you have the tonnage and crit slots to spare. Take my BJ-3, here's what it looks like inside: More or less, at least. (http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=80&l=a239c985c0c73f013df5f9d16e9bb5bd21326bca) I mean granted in that example you need a shitload of heatsinks anyways, and there's not much to pad beyond the peeps, but it's a good visual display of the concept.
Post by: Damiac on October 07, 2016, 02:27:58 pm
Don't forget that bigger engines also have internal slots to hold additional heatsinks.
That said, double heatsinks are excellent crit-padding, so there's some merit to stuffing IS mechs full of them as long as you have the tonnage and crit slots to spare. Take my BJ-3, here's what it looks like inside: More or less, at least. (http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=80&l=a239c985c0c73f013df5f9d16e9bb5bd21326bca) I mean granted in that example you need a shitload of heatsinks anyways, and there's not much to pad beyond the peeps, but it's a good visual display of the concept.
Wait... you can put jumpjets in your torso slot? That's very interesting!
My BJ-3 has 1 er ppc, and 4 MPLs. It's a mid to close range combatant who can actually do a bit of sniping before the fighting gets close. At least, that's the theory, more often I notice a 'lone' enemy and go to take him out, then get killed by his teammates that were there the whole time. Seriously, I don't know why I keep making that same mistake. Just because you only see 1 on the radar doesn't mean there aren't more hiding.
I don't own any mechs large enough for the engines with heatsink slots apparently. All I have are my 2 locusts(1e, 1m) and my 3 bjs (1, 3, dc).
I'm keeping up in this mechtoberfest event, so with the 400 mc I can get another mech bay I suppose. I'm considering saving it to put toward a locust-pb though. Super fast and ecm... yes please.
Post by: Flying Dice on October 07, 2016, 02:49:34 pm
The Pirate's Bane is hands-down the best value in cash-only 'mechs, and the Locust mastery bundle is excellent if you don't own any already. I play it pretty basic, but it's a pretty basic 'mech: XL 190, 4x Small Pulse, ECM, three extra double heatsinks to fill out the ten. Leaves a fractional ton open but what the hell would you do with that? You can do it like that, or with MLs, and either way it plays like a 1E with less firepower but more room for mistakes.
Oh, and if you like your BJs and haven't already qualified, buy some MC. Any amount, even the little pack. That's the lowest-tier loyalty reward, it gives you the BJ-2 and a mechbay. The 2 is going to be the first missile variant, with four side torso hardpoints. If my calcs are right it could run 4x SRM6 + Artemis with a little squeezing, or something like 2x SRM6 +Art and 2x SRM4 +Art easily.
Post by: Rince Wind on October 07, 2016, 03:03:50 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on October 07, 2016, 03:42:09 pm
Post by: Knave on October 07, 2016, 07:47:41 pm
Wow. Just had the closest match I've ever seen. It was down to 2v2, myself in my ERPPC BJ-3 and a friendly ERPPC-boating assault against a dakka Night Gyr and a Kodiak. I went down opening the Kodiak up, but my teammate killed him. 1v1. My teammate was cherry-red in the CT, even a single small laser could have killed him... but the enemy Night Gyr was out of ammo and couldn't manage to pull off the DFA with contact damage.
Sounds pretty intense!
I recently rebooted this after a several month hiatus. I'm a bit rusty, but am enjoying running around in my Jenners trying to unlock module access.
username is Knave maybe I'll see y'all online next time you're doing a get together :)
Post by: Flying Dice on October 07, 2016, 07:57:10 pm
And yeah, that moment where we collectively realized that he wasn't shooting was an amazing cathartic release. I think it didn't even get through to our living teammate for another fifteen or twenty seconds, that's how focused he was. Certainly kept torso-twisting, haha!
e: Ah, Mining Collective Conquest, the easiest way to organization-stomp in PuG matches. Literally all you have to do is collapse on the enemy assault lance's point with your entire team and you automatically win the match (unless they did the same thing), since it ends up being 8-12 vs. 3-6 every time. Incidentally, an excellent example of why I love Stalkers. You can literally walk right into six assaults and heavies alpha-striking you, blast one or two to death, and then torso-twist your way to safety while your team follows up.
All it takes is telling people to do it and the willingness to be the first one to commit. That's rule 1 of playing a tanky assault, everybody loves shooting enemies that don't shoot back, so if you say to push somewhere and walk up front you'll usually get plenty of volunteers to blast away at all the enemies shooting you. That and a light willing to play grab-ass to distract enemies are the two most important weapons in PuG play. :P
The magic of OP hitboxes. (http://i.imgur.com/BMGrLl6.jpg)
Post by: se5a on October 08, 2016, 02:18:08 am
I've dropped the heatsinks on the RVN 3L and added SRM2, I might try swapping that out with streaks and seeing how that plays.
Post by: Flying Dice on October 08, 2016, 06:37:47 am
Post by: Wiles on October 08, 2016, 06:53:02 am
Edit: I picked up a Stalker 5M today. This is the loadout I've been playing with STK-5M (http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=46&l=e8c8cfb834adaeab3ceedcd1da21257ddafac5de)
The PPCs and the engine size will probably change when I have more C-Bills, they just got put on because it was the best loadout I could get with the C-Bills I had left over :P
I tried medium lasers instead of PPCs at first but I found I never wanted to use my lasers when I was in laser range because it was better to just use my srms. So I'll probably end up putting some large lasers and more heatsinks and ammo on it when I can.
Post by: se5a on October 08, 2016, 11:00:47 pm
Post by: Wiles on October 09, 2016, 12:02:02 am
Post by: Flying Dice on October 10, 2016, 09:41:09 pm
Don't get me wrong, the ERPPC quirks are great -- 20% cooldown reduction, the usual 50% velocity increase, and a total -50% to heat gen from the generic+specific quirks. And then 25% to ballistic velocity and cooldown.
But then it only has a single energy hardpoint, and four ballistic hardpoints, and no non-ERPPC energy quirks except the CDR and 30% of the heat gen. Just one more energy hardpoint would make it amazing, but as it is you're taking a 40t medium whose only viable builds are a single ERPPC with four MGs or one AC/2. If it were a 25-30t light that could do 130kph, that'd be pretty sweet, but it ain't. It should be a pile of crap that does terrible damage (and it is if you do the 4xMG backup), but somehow just adding the AC/2 makes it work really, really well.
And I don't know why. The constant facetime the AC/2 needs to get out decent damage should just mean that you die faster in that deathtrap, but it doesn't. For some reason. *throws arms up* Not even going to think about it any more.
Post by: MrRoboto75 on October 10, 2016, 11:13:23 pm
I also took the trial Grasshopper for a spin. Three large pulses and two small pulses. By fluke I did stupidly well, got 1000 damage done and 5 KMDD's. Mostly because I was in a 2v2 on our base against a warhawk and a timberwolf. Both were content to shoot my smaller teammate while I lasered them in the back repeatedly.
Post by: gimlet on October 11, 2016, 09:08:33 am
That being said I do kinda like mine, and will certainly like it more when I can splash out for a bigger engine :D
Post by: Damiac on October 11, 2016, 02:20:38 pm
I could use some help coming up with a good build, or to squeeze a little more performance out of my current builds.
I've tried two main builds, one was 3 LPL, the stock std 180 engine, and all the double heat sinks I can jam onto it. End up with a cooling efficiency of 70%, and 5.4 sustained dps, but only 33 damage alpha. Not bad, and decent range make this an easy one to play and do decently well in.
The other is the metamechs build (but I stumbled onto it myself first). An AC20 and 4MLs.
40 damage alpha, but it'll overheat after 3 salvos. 3 salvos will also kill or very heavily damage a lot of mechs. Shortish range, 300m for full damage. The AC20 on the RT is also a bit hard to aim, the torso convergence certainly isn't great on this thing. Makes it tough to hit with the AC20 after shielding or cresting a hill, especially given what a noob I am...
Now, high sustained DPS is really nice, but of course, you don't usually just get to stand there and unload on an enemy all day, so some of that cooling is kind of a waste on build 1, and I don't know what I can really do about that.
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=311&l=b5feaadd897b773befe06f7fe2f3556eec45cea6 (http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=311&l=b5feaadd897b773befe06f7fe2f3556eec45cea6)
Build 2 can bring a LOT of frontloaded damage and is a terror within 300m, but it's hard to get into that situation in the first place. IF I have to crest a hill there's no way I'm getting that ac20 on target before I eat an alpha...
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=311&l=979b406ff955e3e3668b79cd9c524d2b43078908 (http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=311&l=979b406ff955e3e3668b79cd9c524d2b43078908)
As you can see, both are completely tied up slotwise, so even an XL engine doesn't do much to get me out of the jam, unless I get a big enough one to move a few heatsinks into maybe...
I feel that build 1 would really be a lot better if I could squeeze an AC5 or 10 onto it somehow, and let me land bigger alphas and not be so heat neutral.
Build 2... a bigger engine and more heatsinks would help, but is an XL engine a good idea on a brawling cataphract?
Post by: Flying Dice on October 11, 2016, 06:00:38 pm
They're fragile, but the 'mech is very skinny side-on, so with good torso twisting you can spread a lot of damage. If you manage that well you'll typically end up with almost no armor left anywhere. It also, somewhat counter-intuitively, helps that the delineations between CT and side torsos are very clear on the CTFs, so most people will focus their damage on your CT if given the choice-in other words, they usually won't intentionally pop a side torso if it isn't already open (and if it is, you can shield it very effectively). You get ~80pt armor on your front CT and only ~52 on your sides, so that's actually more important than it sounds like.
Still gonna die fast if you're the point of the spear though. When you're in a CTF it's very binary: either people shoot you first and you die without doing much, or they shoot your teammates first and you do a shitload of damage.
Suffice to say, there's a reason why I only have the IM and the 0XP and am waiting on the loyalty reward 3L variant. Those two are the only acceptable ones. The 3L will probably join them (especially if it has LB-10X quirks, considering it comes stock with one), since it also gets MASC, the good CTF max engine size, and four energy hardpoints, which could make for a nice 'mech if it all falls out right. The rest are pretty trash and have been for a long time.
Post by: Damiac on October 12, 2016, 07:58:46 am
I find that shielding and twisting is very easy with this mech, which is good, this is the first mech I've piloted with arms that can actually shield (My others are locusts and blackjacks). I tend to finish matches with both arms blown off, my ct half cored, and my legs in remarkably good shape(when I survive to the end). I can really disrupt enemy lines, and the ECM makes flanking actually kinda possible, even with the slow engine.
My favorite thing to do is get a few mechs to march behind enemy lines with me, and go murder their LRM catapults. It just feels like cataphracts are catapult kryptonite, I just get in their face and let loose, they die in 2 or 3 salvos usually, and I don't know if it's the mech or the pilots, but they almost never twist, and when they do, that big nose is still easy to hit.
Post by: Rince Wind on October 12, 2016, 08:58:32 am
For the tournament I use the trial Jenner IIC, and 2 alphas in the back kill most anything if they hit well. Yesterday a Stalker was on the recieving end of this. -> solo kill
Though I admit that I would gladly give up one of the SRM2s for ECM.
Post by: Knave on October 12, 2016, 09:23:38 am
To be fair, you can use lights for that.
For the tournament I use the trial Jenner IIC, and 2 alphas in the back kill most anything if they hit well. Yesterday a Stalker was on the recieving end of this. -> solo kill
Though I admit that I would gladly give up one of the SRM2s for ECM.
Definitely agree. I'm just about finished mastering the IS Jenner, and one thing I realized is that I really wish it had ECM. Having that ability to avoid targeting is so nice and the lights I see always doing really well consistently all seem to have it.
Currently running around with a 300xl engine, 3x ML and 1x ErPPC makes for some fun times running around and popping people in the back :)
Post by: Damiac on October 12, 2016, 10:01:49 am
But the cataphract can do it while taking fire, and also tank what fire there is from the flanks for the squishier guys. A light can get in and maybe kill an isolated lrm boat, sure, and maybe even start a squirrel chase. A cataphract can do that when the lrm boat isn't totally isolated, and it can kill the backup that arrives.
Of course, the cataphract also can't just run away and vanish light a fast light can. So a solo flank attempt is not a great idea with them, but with a small team it's awesome!
Post by: Flying Dice on October 12, 2016, 12:49:27 pm
Post by: Damiac on October 12, 2016, 01:03:15 pm
Post by: Knave on October 12, 2016, 01:10:37 pm
Have to save up a bit more GXP I think, but it's definitely first on my list to unlock.
Post by: Flying Dice on October 12, 2016, 02:50:49 pm
Wait, why do you need to toggle off your ECM for a backstab? I thought it only showed the "low signal" stuff if you were within something like 150m.
A couple reasons: If you're piloting something with bad convergence, if you're piloting something that wants to transition into a brawl because it can't one-tap, if you're boating SRMs and want to minimize spread...
Most importantly, because you don't have ESP and there could be other enemies that you didn't notice. It's always safer to assume that you're not safe while flanking like that. ECM is great when you're already in a fight and when moving far away from enemies/sniping, but when you're sneaking up the chance of another enemy being close enough to catch interference (thus telling them and their whole team that you're around) is markedly greater than one catching a glimpse that procs the "new target" warble without physically seeing you.
Unless you're shooting from multiple-hundred meter ranges you're going to be within range for them to hit R anyways, so leaving it on just lets them have a chance of knowing you're there without seeing you. Obviously once the target makes you it's better to have it on.
Post by: Rince Wind on October 12, 2016, 03:15:20 pm
And your own Art IV is affected by your ECM?
Post by: Flying Dice on October 12, 2016, 03:33:54 pm
Post by: Rince Wind on October 12, 2016, 05:39:13 pm
Post by: Damiac on October 13, 2016, 08:34:03 am
So I gave up on having ballistics on this one, which is unfortunate, but in exchange I have 2 large lasers and 2 large pulse lasers. I stripped off a pretty good amount of leg armor to make it fit, and to jam in as many heat sinks as possible, ending up with something like 1.3 cooling efficiency. I do get ghost heat if I fire all 4 at once, but if I start the pulses after the LLs I can avoid that, and with the different beam durations it actually kinda works out. If I can manage to avoid the ghost heat the cooling is actually pretty good. I still have the option of a 40 damage alpha, although if I fire it as a true alpha it's pretty hot.
With this setup I've been getting pretty consistent 600-800 damage in matches, and I've yet to lose my legs, so I think it was ok to strip that armor. I seem to be just maneuverable enough to be able to get pesky lights off me, and not having to worry about getting my torso aimed at enemies means I can get my shots off quicker and get back into cover/shield. Speaking of shielding, although I'm not very good at it during trades, this chassis makes shielding pretty easy, and I've been able to retreat under very heavy fire thanks to that, although I usually end up losing an arm, or at least the lasers on it. Obviously I still need to get more disciplined at not overextending.
Of course, the cataphract is not the ideal laser vomit chassis, but long range coupled with ECM is nice. The worst part of this build is the super low arm mounts, if there's a slight bump in the ground there's a good chance my laser will hit it instead of the enemy. This makes trading difficult, but then, it was difficult with ballistics too.
I'm trying to decide now, once I have the cbills, which CTF to buy next. I know one comes with an XL engine, which may be a good idea, as I could swap it between cataphracts, but that's only worthwhile if the chassis variant itself is decent. Although I wonder, are there actually 3 worthwhile cataphract variants, or should I just buy the best value so I can elite the chassis, and maybe sell off the other two.
Do you guys find you actually use all three variants of a chassis you used to elite it, or do you usually stick to 1 or 2? I'm thinking I might sell off my blackjack-DC, as it doesn't get jumpjets like the other two, and there's actually not much special about it.
Post by: Wiles on October 13, 2016, 09:24:44 am
Do you guys find you actually use all three variants of a chassis you used to elite it, or do you usually stick to 1 or 2? I'm thinking I might sell off my blackjack-DC, as it doesn't get jumpjets like the other two, and there's actually not much special about it.
Very rarely do I use all three. I think the only chassis I have that I use 3 variants of is the Locust, even then I use the third infrequently. Mostly I just use 1, maybe 2 if the variants are different enough. I should probably stop playing pokemech and free up some mech bays by selling off some extra variants.
Post by: Flying Dice on October 13, 2016, 12:31:33 pm
Granted, I try to only buy ones that I'm interested in using, so I have a lot of singletons and only three sets of three.
Post by: Damiac on October 13, 2016, 01:02:34 pm
Of course, buying all three means a lot more grinding before you can try a new chassis. But I don't mind the grinding much, because it's just playing the game.
I just read that everyone who's played 100 games since last year are getting a free mech bay and 2 million cbills, so I guess maybe I don't have to worry too much about selling mechs right now. I'll get one for that, and then I'll get 400mc for the mechtoberfest event, and another pile of cbills, so that'll be another mech bay.
Looks like I'll be buying my next cataphract on the 18th after the patch, any recommendations? I have the 0XP at the moment.
Post by: Flying Dice on October 13, 2016, 01:16:26 pm
Post by: MrRoboto75 on October 13, 2016, 08:31:02 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on October 13, 2016, 08:40:04 pm
Really liking the cGauss+2 cERPPC timbie, even if it is the most meta of meta builds.
Post by: Damiac on October 14, 2016, 11:28:17 am
Just curious if anyone here is having the same issue, and better yet, knows how to fix it.
Post by: Wiles on October 14, 2016, 11:55:14 am
Post by: Knave on October 14, 2016, 11:56:48 am
Not sure the cause, but I've just re-logged and it's been fine. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Post by: Damiac on October 17, 2016, 02:00:16 pm
Tomorrow, I should get something like 9 mil cbills, 400 mc, and a mech bay for the events ending today.
That means I should be swimming in cbills and have open mech bays!
So, I've got lights (locusts) mediums (blackjacks) heavies (cataphracts), so clearly I need an assault next!
I'm thinking I'll go for the kodiak, why mess with the rest if you can have the best right? It'll take me several eternities to raise enough cash to master the chassis, but I might as well get started!
Or are there any other assaults I should consider? What are the downsides of the kodiak? (aside from the price)
Post by: Wiles on October 17, 2016, 02:33:55 pm
The other Kodiaks aren't really worth considering if you're just buying one. If you want to get 2 more eventually I think the KDK-2 and the KDK-4 are probably the best non hero variants after the KDK-3. The KDK-1 and KDK-5 aren't that great in my opinion.
If you're looking at non Kodiak assaults there are some cheaper chassis out there. The Battlemasters can be pretty nice energy platforms (I have the 2c and run it in my faction warfare decks). But they kinda feel less like assaults and more like a slightly bigger heavy to me.
The Stalkers are 85 tonnes like the Battlemasters but feel a lot tankier. The 5M can really melt through the opposition when it is boating SRMs.
The Atlas is a classic, it might not be the best assault but it can really dish out the damage and take a beating. I enjoy playing the ECM variant (it's the only atlas I have at the moment).
The Kodiak 3 really is king right now though and probably will be for a while.
Post by: Flying Dice on October 17, 2016, 04:40:57 pm
Post by: Wiles on October 17, 2016, 08:00:15 pm
http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/238356-patch-notes-1485-18-oct-2016/
I look forward to trying out the new Terra Therma map!
Most interesting to me was the talk about December's patch. A new quick play game mode and a reworked assault game mode should be interesting. Assault has always seemed like a worse skirmish mode. Usually it plays out like skirmish, but sometimes a team sneaks by and finishes the game in like 3 minutes resulting in a game that was unsatisfying for both sides. The only times I vote for assault is on HPG so nobody can get away with the lets spend fifteen minutes hiding in the basement strategy. Other than that I just vote for it to avoid horrible combinations like Alpine/Domination.
Post by: Flying Dice on October 17, 2016, 09:21:33 pm
Post by: MrRoboto75 on October 17, 2016, 11:42:43 pm
Post by: Damiac on October 18, 2016, 10:08:16 am
The fact that the hot maps completely ruin thermal vision is also unfortunate, you'd think the stupid thermal vision could calibrate itself to the environment instead of just making your whole screen bright white... Not that thermal vision is of any use 90% of the time due to the terrible range on it.
Nightvision has similar issues, but not as bad as thermal...
The problem is some parts of some maps are so dark you can't see anything but the little red arrow, so I'm firing at rectangles and I can't even tell if there's something between me and the enemy. If I turn on night vision, firstly the range is rather limited, secondly it makes anything bright (like lasers...) outrageously bright, like, saturating the monitor's brightness and hurting my eyes level bright.
Of course, polar highlands has the opposite issue, during the day the map is so bright once again you get complete saturation, and it's offensive to look at. I get a headache if I play too many levels like that.
I wish they'd just limit the max brightness to some degree, and give nightvision/thermal vision the same range as regular vision. Or better yet, just have the damn maps lit well enough to see...
Post by: Wiles on October 18, 2016, 10:27:56 am
Post by: Damiac on October 18, 2016, 12:08:05 pm
Some parts of terra firma are kinda dark, but it's not a problem with the whole map, just a few spots. River city at night is just torture... I spend the whole time shooting at red boxes and hoping I actually have a line of sight to them. At the very least, it'd be nice if the targeting would tell you if you have a line of sight...
Post by: Wiles on October 18, 2016, 03:14:34 pm
Post by: MrRoboto75 on October 18, 2016, 07:35:06 pm
Post by: Rince Wind on October 18, 2016, 07:46:49 pm
For the Mechtoberfest I mostly used the -4P, easy to get kmdds with those lasers. Totally hadn't anything to do with me being too lazy to switch engine and modules over to another Mech.
Post by: Damiac on October 19, 2016, 07:41:55 am
This was a really great find, because my Cataphract-4X came with a puny standard 220, and that was making it difficult to make a decent build. Those engine heatsinks are important!
This is what I ended up with. I'm pretty pleased with it, even if the loadout is a little weird...
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=44&l=0892e8c54d8f544b64a43196a7b52a5d43ffa061 (http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=44&l=0892e8c54d8f544b64a43196a7b52a5d43ffa061)
Alpha damage is a pathetic 26, but I can fire the ac2s and 5s continuously for a very long time before overheating. If I need more immediate damage output, I can fire the Medium pulses, but of course there's a fair price to pay for that in heat. With just the ACs I put out 11.58 dps, if I add the lasers it goes up to 15 dps.
I'm considering shaving off a ton of armor, and dropping 2 tons of ammo to swap the mpls to an LPL instead. I'd certainly appreciate the greater range, and LPLs are ever so slightly more heat efficient. I've only ever run out of ammo once, and it was a very successful round, so I can probably afford it. Cataphracts are such large targets, especially the CT, so I can get away with shaving leg armor a bit. It would drop my max dps and alpha by about 1 damage, but I'd be able to apply it at a longer range.
The main problem with this build is also what makes it so good for me. This build requires me to basically just stare down targets and pepper them with AC fire, meaning I don't get to do much shielding. The thing is, that's what I've generally been doing anyway... so at least now I'm playing a build suited to it! Still, I need to get better at shielding...
EDIT: The new terra therma is OK, I guess. I'll certainly need to get a bit more used to it, but nothing seems offensively bad about it from first glance. It does suffer from visibility issues in some of the map, against just far too dark for my tastes, especially mixed in with the super bright glowy lava. I didn't realize my monitor could produce the light output of several suns, but apparently it can when I play mechwarrior...
Post by: Knave on October 19, 2016, 09:51:44 am
Currently running with a pair of ER PPCs and 4x MLs, but it leads to some pretty big heat issues if I fire them all together.
I find I'm getting my CT blow up real good most matches. Very different from piloting my super fast 150kph Jenners.
Post by: Rince Wind on October 19, 2016, 10:52:16 am
Then stay with the assaults and heavies and join the fight once it is at close range. You have a nice alpha with no ammo concerns and are reasonably fast. You make a reasonably good bodyguard vs lights (though I always prefer if they get pounded by LRMs...) and can kill anything. Just don't go toe to toe with heavies and assaults for more than a salvo or two.
If you want to snipe, I am sure there are better chassis to use than the Hunchback, some that have useful quirks for that.
Post by: Kanil on October 19, 2016, 11:13:12 am
ferro (or endo?)Hopefully the latter. ES is better than FF in every situation, and FF should only be used on 'mechs where you're installing both.
Also, I can't find any Huntsman to play with, and the one I did find and "played with" survived the match. D:
Post by: Flying Dice on October 20, 2016, 07:08:30 pm
More importantly, it can run 5x Medium Pulse and the LB 10-X +2t ammo without being super hot, also take MASC, and still use a standard engine. Thing can get tanky as hell with good torso twisting, and the frequent 30-pt pinpoint plus the crit-seeking feels very nice. I like it.
Not so sure about the BJ-2 though, you need a decently large engine for that one, but if you do you're basically reduced to taking four SRM4+Art or running (bleh) without Artemis even if you run an XL. None of the options I've tried really feel that good. Might be a map-specific 'mech, I can see it doing very well on stuff where you can stay in one area poptarting or hill-humping. If you're on Polar Highlands you're fucked.
Post by: Wiles on October 20, 2016, 07:37:25 pm
For the Blackjack I stuck an XL225 in it because it is the biggest engine I own that fits, with that I was able to put 4x ASRM6s on it. I don't really know what I'm doing with it, I think poptarting is probably the best way to use it because getting in any kind of brawl usually ends pretty horribly :P
EDIT: Has anyone ever encountered an invalid loadout error when there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the mech? I was using my BJ-2 yesterday and everything was fine but today I logged in and it says it is invalid. When I click on the error symbol it doesn't say anything other than ALERT: Invalid Loadout. Usually it tells you what is wrong (no engine, no ammo, etc..). No amount of fiddling in the mech lab seems to fix it (I've stripped everything and put it back on).
EDIT2: It seems to have been something to do with the armor bug on the Blackjack that they just hotfixed. After fiddling with the RT armour values it works again.
Post by: Kanil on October 21, 2016, 03:13:07 am
Post by: Mattk50 on October 28, 2016, 04:36:11 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on October 30, 2016, 04:33:37 pm
It's dumb. It's so fucking dumb, slow, and hot, and I love it.
Spoiler: Unrelated; why I love jumpjets, exhibit A (click to show/hide)
Post by: gimlet on October 30, 2016, 05:29:42 pm
I had a good time with it though, after I chugged up to the action :p It did get me to stick with the big guys since I was as slow as them :D
Post by: Flying Dice on October 30, 2016, 05:36:20 pm
Post by: Girlinhat on October 30, 2016, 05:48:40 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on October 30, 2016, 08:09:22 pm
Post by: Rince Wind on October 30, 2016, 10:28:15 pm
Post by: MrRoboto75 on October 30, 2016, 10:49:36 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on November 01, 2016, 05:20:02 pm
Post by: Kanil on November 01, 2016, 06:29:42 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on November 01, 2016, 06:35:56 pm
Post by: Wiles on November 11, 2016, 05:35:47 pm
In other news the patch notes are out.
https://mwomercs.com/news/2016/11/1664-patch-notes-1487-15nov2016
UAC nerfs across the board! UAC / 2s get a nerf, UAC / 20s, get a nerf! EVERYBODY GETS A NERF!
I mean okay UAC 5s and 10s are very strong.
But 2s and 20s? There's a reason nobody boats them except the occasional silly dire whale or the even sillier Hunchback IIc. The UAC 2s have a very good potential dps, and the UAC 20s have a lot of burst but the downsides make them not as good as other options. Now they have more downsides.
Oh well.
Post by: MrRoboto75 on November 11, 2016, 09:56:39 pm
I put an LB10-X and two SRM4s on mine
Post by: Kanil on November 11, 2016, 11:46:15 pm
...
... oh.
Post by: motorbitch on November 13, 2016, 08:38:35 am
the whole mechlab has changed completely, im somewhat lost. but i managed to fit out a mech so thats cool i guess.
one question, can i still sell stuff? im a bit short at cash it seems, but i do have a few exessive items i think i wont need anytime soon.
Post by: Rince Wind on November 13, 2016, 08:51:11 am
Post by: motorbitch on November 13, 2016, 10:15:09 am
anyway, played a bit, dont like this anymore. when zoomed in, my mouse gets faster and all swimming, making aiming almost impossible.
missile spam is over real, like, gimme a break.
the mouse controls when zoomed are what realy kills it for me tho. i have the option of either not being able to move, or not able to aim, so fuck that.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 13, 2016, 10:38:36 am
If you are, stop. If you aren't, still don't zoom in when you're only a couple hundred meters away. Zoom isn't really necessary at all unless you're sniping stuff with peeps/gauss/ERLLs/whatever at 800+, and default zoom is enough for that.
That said, I haven't really noticed any problems firing on the move while zoomed in. Not sure what you mean by mouse controls, since the mouse only controls torso twist and arm aim as far as movement goes. Very much like WoT/WoWS in that regard, since you can steer and aim independently. :|
Unless there's some bizarre option where you somehow have your directional movement on the mouse and torso twist + throttle on the keyboard.
Post by: motorbitch on November 13, 2016, 11:59:35 am
anyway, i noticed anyone else seems to be using clan weapons now, but for me they wont show up for purchase.
do i need special mechs to buy them, or are they rewarded in a special way?
they seem muuuch more powerful in any case, i feel somewhat at a disadvantage.
Post by: Wiles on November 13, 2016, 12:16:33 pm
Unfortunately when you are buying a mech they aren't separated between clan and inner sphere. But it's pretty easy to tell the difference, if you click on a mech and look at its weapon systems if they are using clan tech it is a clan mech. Clan tech will always have a C- before it.
Post by: motorbitch on November 13, 2016, 02:48:52 pm
Post by: MrRoboto75 on November 13, 2016, 04:58:08 pm
Unfortunately when you are buying a mech they aren't separated between clan and inner sphere. But it's pretty easy to tell the difference, if you click on a mech and look at its weapon systems if they are using clan tech it is a clan mech. Clan tech will always have a C- before it.
Other ways to tell is if a mech has a IIC version, like the jenner or hunchback does, the IIC version is the clan variant. Omnimechs, those that come with omnipods, are typically clan mechs. Clan mechs also tend to be more expensive in terms of C-bills, usually because they actually come with a good engine.
Oh, and its usually only the inner sphere mechs that have quirks.
Post by: Damiac on November 14, 2016, 04:32:57 pm
Clan equipment tend to be lighter and smaller than IS, so they can usually pack more on. But their lasers are far less heat efficient than IS lasers, and tend to have pretty long durations. Their ACs fire 3 shells instead of 1, meaning the damage tends to get spread a bit. Their missiles are the same as the IS ones, except for some reason Streak SRMS, which get a little extra range for no explicable reason.
So clan tends to have a good advantage at long range. All else being equal they will win the poking game if they're allowed to fire at their leisure and cool off.
Where clan does not have the advantage is brawling. If you can push against a bunch of clanners, they will get off impressive alpha strikes, but then their DPS takes a dive as their less heat efficient weapons need more time to cool. Their long duration lasers and spread out ac shots mean you can twist the damage pretty well, while the short duration IS lasers and single shot ACs are a lot easier to keep focused.
The dakka kodiak 3 is a special case. The UACs do fire 3 shells per attack, but they're pretty heat efficient. Kodiak 3s are seemingly pretty OP, but they do tend to get focused down because of that.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 14, 2016, 05:32:56 pm
Post by: Cthulhu on November 26, 2016, 04:34:36 pm
Post by: Erkki on November 28, 2016, 12:37:44 am
cERLL isnt usually a good deal over the IS equivalent because range already was sufficient, but cERML and cERSL are both awesome. They cant be boated quite as well as IS can with theirs, but they have much longer reach and one can often supplement them with other weapons. Clan ACs can work too, they fire multiple shots but the double-tap makes them fearsome against targets that are slow enough to be tracked through the duration of the two bursts. More time on target is needed, but since that already comes with the long-burning lasers, you're ok!
Post by: Wiles on December 06, 2016, 03:57:57 pm
I really hope they don't try to monetize it in any way (like respec for MC or something like that).
Anyway, here's the announcement video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDDzTSaflxU).
Post by: Flying Dice on December 06, 2016, 08:31:33 pm
e: yep
Quote
All past Module purchases will be refunded to you in whole, and all GXP and 'Mech XP spent on Skill or Module unlocks will be carried over as 'Legacy GXP', to be used at-will for unlocking new nodes in the revamped Skill Tree system for any variant.
Post by: Kanil on December 06, 2016, 08:33:53 pm
Mildly annoyed I sold a useless hill climb module I won in a supply cache, since I'd probably have gotten a 6m refund for it instead of 3m for selling it.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 06, 2016, 08:35:22 pm
Post by: MrRoboto75 on December 06, 2016, 11:49:32 pm
But I'm a bit leery of purchasing something I won't see for like four months.
Supposedly MW: Living Legends received some updates. New mech variants, and a prepackaged installer so you don't have to fiddle with Crysis Wars.
Post by: Krevsin on December 08, 2016, 12:50:25 pm
Should I do it? Most of my experience with this type of games comes from playing War Thunder up to about a year ago.
Post by: Wiles on December 08, 2016, 01:01:54 pm
If you are fine with having a smaller selection of mechs than other players and are okay with playing trial mechs then I would definitely recommend it. My brother plays the game super casually and has never spent any money on it and he enjoys it very much. Even with only playing 2-5 times a month he still has been able to buy something like 7 mechs and a hero mech over the year and a half we've been playing together.
Post by: Krevsin on December 08, 2016, 01:28:34 pm
Post by: Sensei on December 08, 2016, 01:32:05 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on December 08, 2016, 01:43:24 pm
Post by: Retropunch on December 08, 2016, 02:13:07 pm
I've been thinking of getting into MWO. I do not intend to spend any money on it.
Should I do it? Most of my experience with this type of games comes from playing War Thunder up to about a year ago.
I've not played for a while so my experience might be a bit dated, but I'd agree with the other posters - you get enough to get you up and running with a decent set up due to early bonuses, but the grind after that is a bit painful.
With there being a relatively small selection of maps and the fact that you can sometimes just end up really unlucky (rubbish team/get headshotted a few times) it can be a bit of drag if you're trying to save up for something big. This page might help shed a bit of light on what you're looking at in terms of grind time: http://mwo.gamepedia.com/C-Bill
It's great fun though - I'd highly recommend it, just make sure you go in knowing that some stuff will be a bit out of reach for a long time.
Post by: Krevsin on December 08, 2016, 02:50:59 pm
Thanks for the warnings, I shall give it a go. As soon as it finishes patching and downloading.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 08, 2016, 04:18:17 pm
Granted, the grind is still there, which is why watching gameplay and playing with trial 'mechs is good: you want your first buy or three to be stuff you really enjoy playing. Once you get a decent stable you'll probably notice that you've basically got two sets of 'mechs: ones you love and pilot all the time, and ones that you bought and maybe kitted out but never really use outside of events that require them.
Post by: Retropunch on December 08, 2016, 04:22:04 pm
I think the problem is, there's a few things (XL engines) that are time investments - not a big problem, but I know a friend who got really put off as they couldn't get the stuff they needed to advance without doing a lot of grinding. I don't think it's a real issue, just something you need to be wary of if you're determined not to spend any money on it.
Post by: Kanil on December 08, 2016, 04:27:35 pm
I drive like 3 'mechs regularly, and they really don't cost that much to get and equip. Mastering them takes a little more (and the system's changing pretty soon) but really the grindy part is figuring out what you actually want in the first place. I dumped like 5 million C-Bills into the loyalty Atlas I've got, and drove it... once. That 5m C-Bills gets me over half way to kitting out the dakka Mauler I drive quite regularly
Post by: Flying Dice on December 08, 2016, 04:42:24 pm
Meanwhile there's the Marauder I bought, geared, and played maybe five times before I gave it up as boring and shitty (quite unfairly, since it was a 3R).
Post by: MrRoboto75 on December 08, 2016, 08:23:39 pm
The biggest limiter as a free player will be mech bays. You start with three, so you can only own three mechs at any time. There's no way to get more free outside of events.
You might still be able to grab the free NCIX centurion. It ain't great, but it has its own mech bay and earns extra c-bills when you play it.
Post by: Wiles on December 10, 2016, 01:03:19 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on December 10, 2016, 02:59:30 pm
If it does improve performance of player 'mechs down the line I'll be happy, but I really don't anticipate enjoying a competitive escort mission where the escort objective is to be killed (rather than stopped). Cart game modes were the right direction to take with PvP escort modes, this feels really questionable.
Post by: MrRoboto75 on December 10, 2016, 05:39:09 pm
Escorting an atlas... with another atlas just seems silly.
Post by: Wiles on December 14, 2016, 12:36:13 am
The new Maurauder IIc seems pretty good, I'll probably pick one up when they are available for C-Bills. It's too bad that it takes a few months for that to happen though.
Post by: MrRoboto75 on December 14, 2016, 06:44:11 pm
Post by: Wiles on December 14, 2016, 09:15:04 pm
Post by: MrRoboto75 on December 16, 2016, 10:50:27 pm
Post by: MrRoboto75 on December 20, 2016, 01:29:28 am
https://mwomercs.com/profile/redeem
Post by: MrRoboto75 on January 27, 2017, 01:24:25 pm
All mechs with "chicken legs" are about 30% off in the currency of your choosing, either MC or C-bill. Assorted cockpit items and paint colors are on sale as well.
I'm thinking of grabbing the PPC variant cicada myself.
Post by: Wiles on January 27, 2017, 01:50:04 pm
The advancement of the timeline will be interesting to see too. Some new tech might spice the game up a bit!
Post by: MrRoboto75 on January 27, 2017, 02:00:50 pm
Oh, and recently the Bushwacker was released as well, for those that preordered it.
Post by: Flying Dice on January 27, 2017, 03:29:41 pm
I haven't been playing in a while but I look forward to the upcoming changes. The new skill system should be interesting if they do it well. Hopefully it isn't another huge c-bill sink though. It's nice that you won't need three of a chassis now.I like the structure, but from the sound of things it's going to be shit because you have to pay through the nose (real money even, I heard) every time you want to respec, which in practicality means that either you buy multiples of any chassis you want to use for more than one build, or you only ever play one build on each.
The advancement of the timeline will be interesting to see too. Some new tech might spice the game up a bit!
Post by: Ruludos on February 03, 2017, 06:03:21 pm
Post by: MrRoboto75 on February 08, 2017, 01:28:02 pm
Post by: Kanil on February 08, 2017, 08:27:31 pm
https://mwomercs.com/news/2017/02/1714-skill-tree-public-test-session
Apparently you were not supposed to be moving modules from one 'mech to another, woe to those who were...
Post by: MrRoboto75 on February 08, 2017, 09:17:34 pm
Post by: Kanil on February 08, 2017, 09:31:48 pm
Post by: Wiles on February 08, 2017, 11:28:00 pm
Post by: MrRoboto75 on February 09, 2017, 04:19:06 pm
I guess, although a full respec ends up costing as much as the 'mech did in the first place...
I dunno, how often will you need a full respec? I suspect once you get stuff like speed tweak and radar derp you aren't going to spec out of them. Only thing you might be specing out of often is weapon quirks.
Post by: Flying Dice on February 09, 2017, 04:39:41 pm
Fuck me, can't even see myself bothering to pick MWO back up again, especially now that we're so close to the BTech top-down tactical game hitting beta.
Post by: Kanil on February 09, 2017, 05:39:31 pm
Yep. This is going to tip things further in favor of clan scum, boating, and strip all the fun out of trying out different/joke builds.
Fuck me, can't even see myself bothering to pick MWO back up again, especially now that we're so close to the BTech top-down tactical game hitting beta.
This is definitely a "shit game, quit forever" moment, if it goes live as-is.
I dunno, how often will you need a full respec?
Probably never. A partial respec is still going to be like 2-2.5m CBs though, which is still a pretty decent amount just to go from one type of laser to a different one.
Post by: Flying Dice on February 09, 2017, 06:27:42 pm
Seriously, fuck them. Fuck them with a splintered bat wound with rusty barbed wire.
The saddest part is that this could have been great. It could have been an addition to the quirk system that only required you to unlock skill nodes once, with free respeccing between any that you'd already unlocked. That would have been... well, not great, since it would still encourage boating, but better than this shit.
Post by: Ruludos on February 12, 2017, 04:04:47 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on February 12, 2017, 09:20:38 pm
I mean JFC we're going to see Kodiaks with full stacked defensive tree quirks, we're going to see ERPPC/Gauss timbies with offensive quirks, all this shit, and IS 'mechs are going to be objectively as well as relatively weaker in the same timeframe. Basically just go buy yourself some clanner trash once this rolls around since almost everything else is gonna get stomped.
That, and it's just PGI doubling down on encouraging boating. If you can only reasonably get one offensive tree, filled for one weapon type, why the hell wouldn't you boat? Should have done something with a higher SP cap and increasing costs as you go down trees, so maxing one out would mean having little left over for other stuff, making dips 1/2 or 1/3 of the way down a selection of trees more viable. That'd discourage boating and give an easy way to balance Clan vs. IS by giving Clan 'mechs a lower SP cap.
Post by: MrRoboto75 on February 21, 2017, 11:58:54 am
-Buying nodes is now about 40% cheaper, 60,000 c-bills and 800 EXP.
-Respecs are now free of charge, and if you decide to spec back into a node you previously bought, its only 400 XP, no c-bill cost. Respecing no longer returns the EXP cost, obv.
-All firepower trees have been consolidated into a single tree. Ie cooldown affects all weapons. Some specific quirks, like laser duration or gauss charge, still exist somewhere in the main firepower skill tree.
-Survival tree is getting nerfed by having it spread out over more nodes. There's also new nodes for reducing the chance of getting critted.
-Operations tree is also getting more spread out.
-Jump jet tree gives bigger benefits, nodes for reducing JJ heat.
-Auxiliary tree for boosting the effects of consumables.
Oh, and mobility, as in torso twisting and such, will no longer be tied to the size of the engine.
Post by: Flying Dice on February 21, 2017, 06:28:39 pm
Though JJs got buffed? They were already looking pretty crazy in the new system.
Post by: MrRoboto75 on February 21, 2017, 06:31:42 pm
living legends' JJs are still better
Oh and the Supernova is on the live servers now.
Post by: Flying Dice on March 14, 2017, 09:38:25 am
-Pushed off to future update in favor of more redesign and public tests.
-PGI realizes that they messed up:
Quote
However, achieving Skill status under the original system represented more than just using experience points to unlock associated Skills; it represented time and commitment. The proper transition to a new Skill Tree needs to account for more than just raw currency.
Quote
Players with fewer Modules were hit particularly hard by this, with a greater burden of subsequent costs to re-gain their Skill statuses.
Quote
It was never our intention to devalue the effort and playing time you’ve put toward your ‘Mechs, and while full details will need to wait until we can complete some of the preliminary investigation and work to ensure the system is solid and technically feasible, our continued work on the Skill Tree will be to address all of the above shortcomings and issues.
Quote
Whether you own a hundred Modules or none, there will be no lost progress in the relative Skill statuses of your ‘Mechs. The work you’ve already put in to achieve Mastery, or any other degree of Skill status under the current system, will carry over into an equal capacity for acquiring any desired Skills under the new Skill Tree.
Post by: Kanil on March 14, 2017, 03:05:10 pm
Curiously, they're adding ATMs... which means they've either added ammo switching (which seems unlikely) or they're going to be... creatively implemented.
Four new 'mechs as well -- Uziel, Annihilator, Cougar, and the Not Timber Wolf MkII.
Post by: Wiles on May 19, 2017, 10:20:37 am
I really don't care for the new system, it is hard to believe they spent all that time to come up with something as pointless as this. After looking at the system I'm not sure what value it has added to the game. The skill tree is incredibly uninteresting and it is going to be quite tedious to upgrade your mechs if you have a lot of them.
I was looking forward to coming back to the game when the new tech comes out but I don't know if I will now. I suppose I'll just have to get my giant stompy robot fix from the new battletech game.
Post by: Mattk50 on May 26, 2017, 11:55:19 am
Post by: Hanzoku on November 08, 2017, 03:08:20 pm
of BattleTech thoroughly though. Took the trial Dire Wolf for a spin a few times and died like a chump within 20 seconds of being engaged each time. I really don't feel like I'm in the heaviest assault mech available, and didn't even want to try a medium or light mech because they'll just die even faster.
On the upside, I freed up 40GB pretty quickly!
Post by: Fishbreath on November 08, 2017, 03:14:19 pm
Hah, got back into this briefly because of the megamek thread... I feel like they've butchered the feel
of BattleTech thoroughly though. Took the trial Dire Wolf for a spin a few times and died like a chump within 20 seconds of being engaged each time. I really don't feel like I'm in the heaviest assault mech available, and didn't even want to try a medium or light mech because they'll just die even faster.
On the upside, I freed up 40GB pretty quickly!
Blast it all, I was hoping it had improved, and was even thinking about re-installing it.
Oh well, guess I'll either have to reinstall MW4:Mercs, or wait for the upcoming MW5.
Post by: umiman on November 08, 2017, 03:18:49 pm
Post by: Kanil on November 08, 2017, 07:46:17 pm
Post by: MrRoboto75 on November 08, 2017, 07:53:38 pm
Post by: Rince Wind on November 08, 2017, 08:19:25 pm
You are slow, so a lot of smaller mechs can just circle around you and chew through that juicy rear arm or. That slowness also means you need to know where you are going because otherwise chances are you won't contribute much because you are at the wrong place at the wrong time. It is harder to shield because your torso moves slowly and you need to be more aware of your surroundings because you can't just turn around in an instant and run away.
Also 20sec is 2 turns in the
While MWO has many flaws I do love that they managed to make light mechs viable. A well piloted light can be a terror on the battlefield and can actually do some of the fluff stuff that the turn based nature of the tabletop doesn't really let them do.
I'd say heavies are the easiest weight class to play by and large. Mediums seem to be in a weird spot, because they mostly lack the speed to avoid taking damage and the durability to survive the beatings.
But then, in a Stormcrow I'd take on almost any mech and have a very decent chance of winning. Unless they have ECM while I have streaks. :D And there are a couple more exceptions.
Post by: Hanzoku on November 09, 2017, 02:46:22 am
Either way, while I understand there's a whole complex ecosystem to MWO, in the end, it doesn't feel like a mechwarrior game to me anymore. It feels like any other twitch-based shooter on the market where there's no strategy, only whoever has the most experience in the game and the fastest reflexes wins.
Post by: Kanil on November 09, 2017, 03:34:52 am
... when's the last time you downed a Dire Wolf...Approximately never. :P
Perfect conversion does make the game very different than TT, but is that actually different than any prior MechWarrior game? I can't say I remember exactly, as it's been quite some time since I've played the other titles... but don't things in general die quickly in all these games?
As for strategy, I'm not sure this game is devoid of strategy for any reason other than those who choose to play it.
Post by: Rince Wind on November 09, 2017, 07:25:15 am
I don't know, when's the last time you downed a Dire Wolf without a lucky gyro or cockpit crit with two mechs inside two rounds?
Either way, while I understand there's a whole complex ecosystem to MWO, in the end, it doesn't feel like a mechwarrior game to me anymore. It feels like any other twitch-based shooter on the market where there's no strategy, only whoever has the most experience in the game and the fastest reflexes wins.
I play without TACs in megamek, so it is hard, but with focusing fire it can be done. Sometimes, when you are lucky. In MWO your enemies focus fire on one component, so it is a lot easier. The weapons shoot faster (some a lot, which in my book is a good thing because things like AC2 and AC5 are mostly dead weight in the tabletop), but you have twice the armor as well.
One could argue that it was a grave tactical mistake on behalf of you and your team that the enemy managed to catch you in a position where it was easy to quickly focus you down.
While there are a lot of solo players, when someone takes command and knows what he is doing the battle is won a lot more often then not when playing against 12 solo players.
I do horrible in most FPSs, but decent in MWO which seems more forgiving in that you don't die as quickly usually. That said, I survive a lot longer in my Cataphract then I do in my King Crab most of the time.