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[Starver]

"The streets are paved in gold", as the attraction, but then having to sleep on the non-gold streets once you've travelled there under the influence of such an economically naïve opinion?

(I mean, if you went to a place with actual golden paving stones/whatever, then how does that help you? Assuming you could rip up such aurificous cobbles, without incurring wrath of the authorities, do you think you'd be able to usefully use them to buy yourself your next meal in the nearest café, outside of which should also be whole pavements of the things? Or are you going to export them to more gold-less places, which apparently nobody else has thought much about doing before, including the local ruling government/people. Or they have anticipated it, in far more ways than you have...)

I like the idea of the subsistance 'floor', and looseness of what values actually mean what. (And very tempted, as extension to my analogy, to mention Twoflower's innocent flooding of gold coins from the Aurient into the economy of Ankh-Morpork, whose only fault is that they're not at all as extremely adulterated as the genuine local 'gold' currency.) I need to read/examine the latest update and its images a lot more closely (I've got a tab open on the earlier project status, I noticed, that I also wanted to spend time keeping up with, and that might include a bit of Youtube clip watching, too), but I think there's plenty of wriggle-room to justify strange socio-economic artefacts.

This is just the one obvious example, which might be an outlier or a commonplace situation across various similar-but-different core situations. It could be a relative Shangri-La or a Mos Eisley or anything else where it just happens to have become the hotbed of civilisation in the local area. (Rather than being more densley populated due to being 'a place of significance', it could have become a place of significance because it happened to be more densley populated.)


And the Water Mines also make me think of Moisture Farming. Though I know it's probably nothing to do with that.

[geoffroypir]

Seems odd that the only city on a planet would decide to settle itself on the artic tundra, when there's a perfectly good habitable zone just to their south. Although, as you mention, they seem to be happy enough sustaining themselves on roots and berries.

Yea, that looks odd, maybe the ore deposit are rich here or the flora interesting. It is far from being a terrible place but not the best, I think I'll tweak a bit the decision weight when choosing a spot.

You mention that they're currently not spending anything on "luxury" goods - would a city of this tech level have any luxuries available? What's considered a stone-age luxury? Spices / furs / gems?

Jewelry and toys are fairly easy to produce. I'll add more once I'll be in the phase of adding content.

Money is debt, just a very fancy IOU. Does the money on Drumin correlate universally or is it unique to the planet/city?

Its fiduciary value is universal (the simulation value), but they could be using soda caps or flower petals for all I know, with a (universal) conversion rate that varies.

Why are there 12,000 in the capital itself, while outlying regions have 100-700?
If the entire economy is early subsistence forging, I don't see anything in Savas to lure people into one spot, and expect they would spread out evenly to forage better.

They do actually, I did spawn a city (pre-simulated) of 15k on a single region and what we see here is the start of that spreading after a few months. The capital is the arrival point of intercity migration though, so the capital will likely be overpopulated during mass-migration, the capital also has an immigration pull bonus.
Also the regions are huge (the size of country), a city of this size would rather stay on a single tile as 15k of subsistence economy represent an insignificant occupation on this space.

And the Water Mines also make me think of Moisture Farming. Though I know it's probably nothing to do with that.

The game logic currently calls "mines" anything that extracts something out of the soil. erf
I plan on having moisture farming though.

[Starver]

And the Water Mines also make me think of Moisture Farming. Though I know it's probably nothing to do with that.

The game logic currently calls "mines" anything that extracts something out of the soil. erf
I plan on having moisture farming though.

Wording-wise, perhaps differently classify soil-solids (mines) and soil-liquids (wells; covers water, oil, 'treacle', whatever else you have going for you).

But given the tundra-looking climate, I was also happy to consider it as representative of "mining of glacier/permafrost". Depending upon what range of exotic resources/temperature profiles you have, behind the scenes, perhaps you'd be able to key up times where you're tapping a magma-well for certain minerals, or desublimation(/deposition) of any airborne solid-to-gas (as per local conditions) to fit into any scheme where you also seperately deal with water/etc condensor 'industry'. And then there's using salt-pans . Or phytoextraction from managed bioconcentration, if that isn't too close to agriculture (alongside fruit harvesting, sap-tapping or outright reaping for non-food purposes).

(Water could be "frosted out of the air", too, perhaps even trivially where you have arctic geysers, setting up metal plates downwind of the vent and then mechanically/manually scraping off what might even be the best local source of water-ice. But this is just a figurative suggestion, and obviously you're abstracting it into broad-strokes where your only problem (if that) is the general descriptive language used.)

TL;DR split into mines/wells(/condensors/melters/cryomines/pyrovaporators/various other possibles), as calculated to be be appropriate to the resource, environment and/or tech-level.

Anything I say here is just thrown into the air. Plenty of chaff as well as wheat, I imagine. You'll probably have better ideas, or already have honed in on some of this by yourself, from what I've already understood of the project!

[EuchreJack]

It looks fun.

Its capital region, Savas has 12 000 inhabitants, and the entirety of its economy relies on subsistance.

Why are there 12,000 in the capital itself, while outlying regions have 100-700?
If the entire economy is early subsistence forging, I don't see anything in Savas to lure people into one spot, and expect they would spread out evenly to forage better.

I keep misreading that as substance.
So I assume the drugs are processed in the capital, hence why everyone lives there.

[Frumple]

I mean, there are studies out there putting sugar or salt or something at around the same addictiveness as cocaine. Maybe the capital's just where all the good cooks live

[EuchreJack]

...and brewers

[Starver]

Blessed are the cheesemakers...

[King Zultan]

...the world would surly be lost without their cheeses!

[geoffroypir]

Seems odd that the only city on a planet would decide to settle itself on the artic tundra, when there's a perfectly good habitable zone just to their south. Although, as you mention, they seem to be happy enough sustaining themselves on roots and berries.

I have overhauled the tile attractiveness computation and this is much better now.

Here another devlog (original link : https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1343010/view/3658658568022716181)


Administration, territories & sea projection

A nation will eventually expand to more regions. The first one holds its capital city, while other regions can provide a variety of natural resources and different biomes. Spreading out development also helps improve infrastructure efficiency, and subsistence is usually more efficient in unexploited lands.


Here we have 2 cities on 2 separated landmasses

The city has claimed the entire island but has also extended its influence off the coast to the northeast, reaching another island. Water tiles are much cheaper to claim and maintain, but they require sea-projection points. We can see how the relief hinders the administration's reach. The red areas have the lowest administration efficiency.



But this city has a strong naval tradition. Infrastructure on the coast and a special building in the capital (seaport) generate enough sea-projection points to claim the entire coastline of the continent.


This city has 3 sea-projection points and can control 3 sea tiles without penalty

Administration spread is much more efficient at sea than on undeveloped land (without infrastructure development), meaning that even the remote coastlines to the west are now properly administered.

Administration efficiency is very important as it represents the control a nation has over a region and its population. It affects corruption, taxes, and the Political Point (PP) balance. Usually, low administration is also a sign of poor supply routes, which affects industry efficiency and hinders internal migration.



Osley has claimed a large territory. Each territory costs a lump sum of PP (Political Points) and also requires administration maintenance. This tiny nation would never be able to administer such a large territory without having crippling corruption. Administration is produced from buildings in the capital city, and maintenance is reduced through infrastructure and policies.

The administration cost of a tile is mainly determined by the population and the administration "pathfinding" cost to the capital (where infrastructure, relief, and flora play a major role).



The migration attractiveness overlay tells us a lot. Osley relies mostly on subsistence, and its capital's region offers many more opportunities than these untamed territories. Bear in mind that a single tile is quite a large area by itself.

However, the uranium to the northwest, petrol to the north, iron to the west, and coal to the southwest offer good opportunities to establish robust industry.


Migration attractivness overlay

[Mephansteras]

I like that system. Looks like it makes a lot of sense.

[geoffroypir]

Here is another devlog on extortion and police:

Most "pirate" organizations will have legal activities alongside less legal ones. One of them is extortion, a form of proto-taxation system.

Control
I am tracking the control level of each organization in a stellar system's sphere of influence, it is determined by the presence of powerful spaceships or space stations and their visibility (sensor profile).

A faction ostensibly patrolling a system will therefore create more control over this system. An organization uses this control to police the area or counter the policing effort of another faction. An organization will usually police a system if it has established space stations or colonies in it. Multiple organizations can share this role at the same time.


Temple and Eridani are the main factions here.

Control is also used for strategic decision-making alongside a threat "heatmap" but that's another subject.

Extortion
On the other side, some organizations will prey on undefended systems and demand protection money to established stations or ambush other spacecraft for a toll. The offended party can call the local police for help and will usually do so if the latter has a strong presence in the system. However, the captain's traits have a great influence on his decisions.


This spacecraft is trying to ambush us, or any other viable target. Its active sensors and engines are off, with no transponder, it would be almost undetectable without the cheat code I have just used..
This active extortion system isn't abstracted and the player can be confronted with such extortion attempts or witness one in action.

After the extortion, the mission isn't over and the pirate will go back to his home base to do the necessary "paint job" and turn clean in the eyes of the police. This option is also available to the player, for a price.

Turmoil
War and piracy are usually not a great signal for prosperous trade, now each system tracks the current turmoil which is increased by ship destruction and pirate's interaction.

A high level of turmoil will discourage any trade run to this system's trade nodes and the construction of new private space stations. It is therefore important to invest in maintaining order in the administered part of the galaxy.

Perceived turmoil will diminish over time.

To conclude...
That's another heavy work on the AI which adds even more life in the galaxy, and another stone until the private alpha.

To support the piracy and police addition a lot of fundamental AI behaviors were added which further expands the number of building blocks of the AI.

The next devlog will probably talk more about cities, territories, and planet's surface, but also the improved (historical) generation of native civilisations.

[LoSboccacc]

any idea when we'd get some hands on experience? this looks so fabulous.

[forsaken1111]

I think I echo the unsaid sentiment: "I WANNA PLAY YOUR GAME ASAP PLS"

Seriously, it looks great and I don't mind bugs. I want to play your game. That is all.

[martinuzz]

+1

[Nelia Hawk]

once this goes into early acces or release its probably a instant buy for me...
i thought its cool already ages ago when it was "just" some 2d pixel planet sideview and now it has all the space stuff too.
this game reminds me a lot of starsector, distant worlds or x4.

maybe a demo that just showcases the 2d planet stuff could be neat already... like it randomly generates a planet and you got some peoples on it and can build a mine or so and advance some years and see how it changes and then make a new planet and watch there... a bit like a ant farm to watch or screensaver.

or like a demo with just one solar system in it... you have one planet where you can do stuff and build some basic spaceships maybe (frigate, cargo, builder and just the most basic modules for them... tiny cargo bay, one gun, one missile, some armor, a slow engine or so)... maybe 1 hostile pirate planet for some basic space combat showcase, and 2-3 moons or an asteroid belt to build space bases and get freighters to move stuff to your planet...
maybe something like that would be neat as a demo, something like them two gifs to look at:
https://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/1343010/extras/CityTimelapse2.gif?t=1672102282
https://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/1343010/extras/Traffic.gif?t=1672102282
but that just random ideas, dev probably has a plan for all that already once it gets closer to releasing something playable for peoples.