Bay 12 Games Forum
Finally... => General Discussion => Topic started by: Xantalos on July 16, 2019, 12:26:05 am
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Hi Bay12! Do you do fighting? I do fighting. Well, kinda, I train in karate, and have been doing so for a pretty long while. I teach and stuff, though I don't have my own facility or anything crazy.
I've recently found myself kinda curious as to whether anyone else on this forum does martial arts or other various forms of fighting. Boxing, wrestling, sambo, judo, kung fu, silat, inviting-people-to-your-backyard-and-fighting-them-there-fu, anything else that isn't currently popping into my head.
This thread'll be for general discussion about basically anything related to some form of fighting - what you've been working on and might be having difficulty with, if you're seeking tips or advice on what art you might prefer if you're considering starting to train, etc. Just general discussion stuff, really.
Allow me to open with a joke, which may or may not have been the only reason I started this thread to begin with: what is Shrek's favorite judo technique?
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PTW. I don't box anymore, but I'm still always fascinated in any talk around martial arts and unarmed combat.
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I practice taekwondo, although I've only been doing it for about four months and I'm completely ungraded. I could probably pass the grading for my yellow tags (9th gup), but I haven't had time to go to a grading.
Slightly further away from MA but still IMO fundamentally a combat sport, I fence (principally epee) competitively at a national level. I'm not good at the national level, but I'm not bad either. Many people would probably disagree about calling fencing a combat sport, but after practicing TKD for a while, a great many of the skills seem to transfer.
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Ooh, this looks like a fun thread in the making!
I used to practice MMA. Then the sensei turned out to be a creep and got shoved into federal prison. So I tried HEMA for awhile. Then I realized the equipment was prohibitively expensive, and I don't have a place nearby that teaches it. So... I don't really do much now. I still like hearing about it tho! :D
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I practice taekwondo, although I've only been doing it for about four months and I'm completely ungraded. I could probably pass the grading for my yellow tags (9th gup), but I haven't had time to go to a grading.
Slightly further away from MA but still IMO fundamentally a combat sport, I fence (principally epee) competitively at a national level. I'm not good at the national level, but I'm not bad either. Many people would probably disagree about calling fencing a combat sport, but after practicing TKD for a while, a great many of the skills seem to transfer.
Ooh, neat! I'd say it counts, and I've actually heard the fencing/tkd comparison before - primarily in regards to ... I think it's WTF taekwondo, the olympic version? I've heard it called leg fencing, while older tkd was apparently similar to leg boxing.
How's the ranking system work in taekwondo, anyhow? I know it varies from school to school (lord knows karate's guilty of that) but I'm pretty sure there's a general pattern.
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How's the ranking system work in taekwondo, anyhow? I know it varies from school to school (lord knows karate's guilty of that) but I'm pretty sure there's a general pattern.
Something like white, yellow, green, blue, red, black (1st degree). My school had in-between senior belts for each not-black color, which had a black stripe down the middle. It basically says you're halfway there.
There's ten degrees of black belt, albeit 10th is more an honorary thing. Each degree is a yellow bar on the end of the belt. My master was 6th degree, and the assistant teachers were around 2-3 degree.
I myself reached red senior, but that was maybe 8 years ago at this point.
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I do ITF taekwondo, where it's 10th to 1st gup(/kup depending on whose romanisation you use :P), white -> white with yellow tags -> yellow -> green tags -> green -> blue tags -> blue -> red tags -> red -> black tags -> black -> gold tags, AFAIK. That one's an international standard, but it may well differ from the WTF one.
I think the skills from fencing probably transfer to combat sports in general, not just TKD, although the way points are scored is kinda similar to foil fencing. Things like space management, head games, and watching your opponent are pretty universal.
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Ah, so fairly similar to how my karate school does it, then. Neat!
I think the skills from fencing probably transfer to combat sports in general, not just TKD, although the way points are scored is kinda similar to foil fencing. Things like space management, head games, and watching your opponent are pretty universal.
And falling. If there's one thing I've seen practiced a heck of a lot in pretty much every asian martial art I've ever practiced, it's that falling properly is a thing they really want you to learn.
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Ah, so fairly similar to how my karate school does it, then. Neat!
I think the skills from fencing probably transfer to combat sports in general, not just TKD, although the way points are scored is kinda similar to foil fencing. Things like space management, head games, and watching your opponent are pretty universal.
And falling. If there's one thing I've seen practiced a heck of a lot in pretty much every asian martial art I've ever practiced, it's that falling properly is a thing they really want you to learn.
To be fair, a lot of techniques involve somebody falling on the ground. If you're going to practice those on each other, you need to know how to fall without hurting yourself.
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To be fair, a lot of techniques involve somebody falling on the ground. If you're going to practice those on each other, you need to know how to fall without hurting yourself.
Oh aye, pulling off a shoulder throw or some of the more brutal hip tosses on someone who doesn't know how to fall can really easily end up with them landing right on their face.
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That's the one thing you won't learn in fencing. Bodily contact that's not clearly incidental in the course of a normal attack is punished by anything from a warning to an immediate two-month ban from the sport. :P That said, I still have a hex pattern printed into the heel of my palm from falling on the piste at nationals more than a week ago.
On a less technical note, what do y'all most like about your style of choice? I am a shameless lover of TKD's needlessly flashy jumps and spins, myself.
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Posting to watch.
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On a less technical note, what do y'all most like about your style of choice? I am a shameless lover of TKD's needlessly flashy jumps and spins, myself.
I remember how I viewed boxing years ago, and why I liked it more than MMA. MMA fights and kickboxing fights always seemed so complicated. Far too much could happen for me to keep track of at the time.
Boxing seemed simpler, and as a result, purer. Two guys, trying to hurt each other with their fists. That's it.
As I got further into the sport an started practicing it myself the actual complexity of it became apparent, and drew me in even further. But I'll never forget the ideal in my head of boxing/fisticuffs/pugilism as the most straightforward means of personal combat I could envision.
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On a less technical note, what do y'all most like about your style of choice? I am a shameless lover of TKD's needlessly flashy jumps and spins, myself.
Karate, the more traditionally-focused styles at least, are pretty heavily focused around kata, the prearranged sequences of moves and stuff that are often seen in training scenes in kung fu films and stuff. What I like about it is what's called bunkai, or breakdown/analysis as far as translation goes - basically figuring out what the hell you're doing in kata rather than just waving your hands around. Especially with the internet letting people put bunkai videos and stuff online, there's some really insightful stuff out there showing how the various kata can be used as drills for some ludicrously brutal techniques. They're almost like a series of textbooks, but instead of being written on paper, they're recorded in movement, which is a really cool concept to me.
Unfortunately, since there's no actual official database of this stuff, and it's mostly left up to the individual practitioner to figure it out for themselves, this can lead to a lot of the interpretations which are actually practical (karate actually seems to have a lot more in common with grappling-based arts than striking ones the more I look at it) being forgotten or misunderstood due to the lack of them being passed down properly, and more out-there, not really stress-tested stuff being implemented instead. So I guess the thing I like most about it is also what I most have problems with, since it's sometimes like trying to learn math from a French textbook that's been google translated into Italian when you only have a passing fluency in Spanish.
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I do Jiu Jitsu. Only been doing it since September, and only during term times since it's a university club, but it's fun, which given I generally hate exercise is nice.
One of the things I like about it is that unlike some other martial arts, the throws are taught from someone attempting an attack as opposed to being from a grip (Judo's the biggest culprit of this one so far as I can tell) which makes it a bit more realistic. I'd still not want to fight anyone that's learned Judo (or anyone, really), I suspect they'd be better at throws than me, but it's less realistic to start from a Judo grip.
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I do Jiu Jitsu. Only been doing it since September, and only during term times since it's a university club, but it's fun, which given I generally hate exercise is nice.
One of the things I like about it is that unlike some other martial arts, the throws are taught from someone attempting an attack as opposed to being from a grip (Judo's the biggest culprit of this one so far as I can tell) which makes it a bit more realistic. I'd still not want to fight anyone that's learned Judo (or anyone, really), I suspect they'd be better at throws than me, but it's less realistic to start from a Judo grip.
Yeah, a big part of that is that judo's very much a sport-based discipline, or at least that's how it's taught in a lot of clubs. Competition-focused and such - the main test of the techniques comes from when you're in a tournament and being grabbed in a judo grip, so that's how the instruction is structured as well. Jiu jitsu does tend to be more self-defense oriented, at least some of the other styles than BJJ (though honestly this is all massive generalization on my part, any style can be taught with any degree of sport vs actual combat focus, it all depends on the school and instructor), since it's where Judo originated from in the first place - Jigoro Kano just altered his style to remove the stuff that wasn't safe for a sportive sort of style.
Speaking as a karateka with some minor amount of judo/jiu jitsu experience, though, it isn't really that hard to learn a throw from a grip and then adapt it into initiating it off of a punch or something - it really just adds one extra step, from 1. grab 2. throw to 1. deflect/parry/counter attack 2. grab 3. throw.
...speaking generally, of course.
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Actual technical question! I'm absurdly right-dominant, something that has only been made worse by fencing. It's not normally an issue, but my left-side blocks are noticeably weaker than my right blocks, and my kicks are just weird because I balance better when kicking with my left, but kick harder with my right.
Other than doing more left side drills, is there anything in particular you guys recommend for training that out? Most of what I do is bodyweight, and I'm not strong enough to do left-arm exercises. I've got a pair of light (1.5kg) dumbells too.
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Do even more left-side drills.
The thing about it is that ambidexterity can only really be taught by constantly doing stuff with your non-dominant hand/side. I'd imagine it's to do with the way your brain forges skill-related paths.
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Just looking for general strength increase on that side? Honestly, the simplest way to do it is just to drill the hell out of your techniques on that side, since I’d wager a big part of that weakness isn’t necessarily muscle difference so much as your body’s more used to efficiently transferring force with your right side rather than your left. Of course, that does take a while to balance out, but it’s the most effective way IMO. Other than that ... well, TKD and you mentioned kicks specifically so I imagine kicks are a big part of what you’re talking about, so balance drills and stuff where you have to shift your body weight to one leg and then another are always nice. Uh... I suppose if you decide to do weights you could increase your left side reps by like 1.5x, but I’d consult the Get Fit thread about that - I know pretty much zilch about weights myself.
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I'm not practicing any martial arts but I've been looking into HEMA for it's historical side. Since someone mentioned it I thought I'd share a nice resource about it for anyone that might be interested.
Wiktenauer (https://wiktenauer.com/) is a wiki style database that has "copies" from a lot of the surviving fencing manuals and manuscripts from 14th to 19th century, in both the original language and translated.
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Another idle curiosity question! After my sabum-nim jokingly described World Taekwondo Federation as "Dojang Lite" because he got a black belt there in two years (vs. far longer for his ITF black belt), I got to wondering: how long do your various styles, dojos, dojangs, schools or temples take for gradings?
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Actual technical question! I'm absurdly right-dominant, something that has only been made worse by fencing. It's not normally an issue, but my left-side blocks are noticeably weaker than my right blocks, and my kicks are just weird because I balance better when kicking with my left, but kick harder with my right.
Other than doing more left side drills, is there anything in particular you guys recommend for training that out? Most of what I do is bodyweight, and I'm not strong enough to do left-arm exercises. I've got a pair of light (1.5kg) dumbells too.
Learn to juggle at least two objects on left-right passes or three on a full braided pass (which is what your brain will do after you get the reflexes for two object juggling > toss left, toss right, catch right, catch left, adding in a third object just kinda happens, I can't even explain it really) and you'll start to develop better muscle activation timing/awareness on your weaker side.
After that you can do slow punch drills with weights, and I can't emphasize slow enough, throwing fast punches with weights is just going to put weird strain on your tendons, doing them slow is going to activate muscle groups better and you'll get full benefit from the withdrawal motion being controlled and steady.
Do straight shoulder height punches where you start with the weights drawn up near your chin, palms towards you, then slowly extend outwards and rotate the weight down and under weirdly so your elbow is pointing up and palm out, then pull it back in and rotate the other way.
After a while doing this you should feel your shoulders getting weird muscle activation and fatigue, and you should resist any urge to speed up at this point, slow down if anything until you can't get a good form at all. Then do regular kata or bag work or whatever you have available at normal speeds without the weights.
The muscles engaged in a block are going to be bracing and pushing your elbows up and out usually, so you can do stuff like lean forwards and do regular fly (arms extended with elbows slightly bent, palms in, keep that position and pull back up towards your back and keep the form steady) and press type workouts but getting your left side muscle groups active enough to feel form errors is important before just trying to work the muscles to failure.
Don't try to juggle dumbbells btw, just a parlor trick, anything heavier than an orange is pointless because you want to build up your sense of what that side of your body is doing reflexively.
Oh, no real training beyond pursuing a JKD sort of philosophy (longest weapon for closest target, simple movements, build core strength and push off it to propel strikes) and lots of fighting growing up due to not realizing my habit of squaring up with guys came off as a threat posture, but most of that was just defensive maneuvers and locks/holds as I wasn't really trying to break anybody so much as I was confused and eventually decided guys just picked fights normally until you demonstrate it is silly.
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Another idle curiosity question! After my sabum-nim jokingly described World Taekwondo Federation as "Dojang Lite" because he got a black belt there in two years (vs. far longer for his ITF black belt), I got to wondering: how long do your various styles, dojos, dojangs, schools or temples take for gradings?
Depends on the belt one's going for - I got my first degree black belt in ...well, if you count from the time I started training, it was like 14 years, but I moved around a lot as a kid and couldn't train in one school for very long until a while had passed. So in the style I study right now, it took me probably ... 8.5, 9 years to get my black belt? Then a further 3 to get my second degree, during which I learned more up than I had up to that point.
Got my yellow belt in judo in about a month, if that counts as anything. I really haven't had the opportunity to train judo for a while now due to RL stuff making me too busy to go, so I wouldn't say my advancement rate is anything like what an actually committed judoka would be like.
I think it all depends on the rate at which the student absorbs the stuff being taught, honestly. I knew a guy who got his black belt within 3 years after starting, purely because he was so ridiculously dedicated to training - dude was going 6 days a week, at least 4 hours a day. So there's always gonna be exceptions along those lines.
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I found a martial arts blog a few days back and holy fuck, I must've had 50+ tabs open at one point just due to the density of articles I found interesting. I'm down to 25 now and my eyes are burning.
Link (https://www.wayofleastresistance.net/) if any are interested. It is primarily karate-centered, just so yer aware of what it is.
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Been boxing for about 4 years, know my way around a few other martial arts, but am no expert. Recently tried to start boxing in the amateur league here but popped a rib in training and am now struggling with motivation.
For left side work, I'd recommend doing some practice with balnce. It'll help your kicks and stability should help strengthen your left side. Balance beams, walk on yoga blocks, stand on a ball, etc. Take care of your ankles but they're easy exercises to add to a warm up or cool down.
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ptw
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Bit weird to revive a year-and-a-half old thread to watch it, but whatever.
Also I've learned that the account reset I did was over a year and a half ago because of this.
Anyway, how is everyone getting on with their martial arts in the age of covid? I've not been able to do it for a year at this point. In fact, it was about this time last year I did my last bit before the covid lockdown happened.
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That's a solid necro for a PTW.
I had to quit TKD at the start of last year because I finished university and my uni has one of the only dojangs in the city, the other being terribly far out of my way. I'm fencing 2-3 days a week though, if we allow for calling that an armed martial art. :P Don't know when competitions will start again, but I'm itching to put my practice to the test in a tournament.
I've also discovered that there's an interesting looking ninjutsu (or at least, Japanese martial arts being called ninjutsu, dunno how purist people are) dojo less far out of my way, which I'd love to at least visit some time. Not sure I have enough hours in the day for that and everything else I'd like to do, though...
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The week before things locked down last spring, I had just purchased a new fencing mask, shoes, and some other stuff. I was planning to go to a fencing club the next week to restart my sport from 15 years ago and get some good conditioning going. Well, that didn't happen.
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Anyway, how is everyone getting on with their martial arts in the age of covid? I've not been able to do it for a year at this point. In fact, it was about this time last year I did my last bit before the covid lockdown happened.
My father, after a good stretch of quarentine, mostly practiced a lot of work with the staff, and a lot stuff with forms. Little to no actual contact, and generally you have to change clothes at home.
It helps that the classes he attended are very very small. His swordsmanship class is still cancelled, I believe the community center that held it is still closed.
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My my, I certainly didn’t expect to see this necro’d!
I’ve been unable to train either karate or judo for the past ... yearish due to covid, so I’ve been doing a lot of stuff at home, and have begun a steady descent into more and more niche stuff. Taught myself some taiji forms off a dvd, got way too into forearm exercises, and started hand and body conditioning routines. Also a ton of qigong stuff since I’ve discovered I find it neat.
Lord, my sparring’s gonna be so rusty when I eventually am able to engage in it again. Punching bags and whatnot are fine, but nothing replaces another actual person.
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Gyms all closed up here - and by the time they reopened, I had moved. I'm down to only running basically, but itching to get back in the sport. There are no normal gyms near me, let alone boxing gyms or any sort of dojo. A bit frustrating - I even considered teaching some of the students here how to box just to get some practice (and school funding...)
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Lord, my sparring’s gonna be so rusty when I eventually am able to engage in it again. Punching bags and whatnot are fine, but nothing replaces another actual person.
Good news is that anyone that's not been living with another martial artist is going to be in the same boat as you.