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[Shadowlord]

EDIT: Great, just great... Looking at all these different events and their conditions, now I gotta go through and re-do damn near all my pretender designs thanks to how this works out. Yippee.

[Frumple]

Eh, probably half of it isn't new invasions. It's that you're getting more of them. Because you're getting more events. And in the case of ermor & co, on top of no longer having PD (save the one commander, I guess).

Though I coulda' sworn T3 opened up some new stuff. Maybe it was back in D3? Eh. Still, if all it takes is turmoil 1, no longer will I be taking T1 :V

Kinda' wish someone would do a proper breakdown of the events, though. There's lists, but no "This is how many events scale X brings in" sort of thing. Nice summary of however many number of the different sorts (gold, gems, items, invasions, units, etc.) of events come in at what points would be a helluva handy reference. Also be neat to see if there's a sort of optimal event setup, where you maximize the number of potential good events and minimize the number of poor ones... trim the pool to be in your favor, basically.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Also be neat to see if there's a sort of optimal event setup, where you maximize the number of potential good events and minimize the number of poor ones... trim the pool to be in your favor, basically.

No. Please no.

If there's one thing I hate in fun, broad multiplayer games like this, it's optimizing builds. What is the point of having variety of choices, if people start gravitating towards something known to be objectively better?

[Frumple]

Optimal event setup doesn't translate to better in D4, silly. Better events, maybe (and only maybe, because I'd be surprised if a setup that maximized the good:bad event ratio was actually desirable for every nation or strategy), but if you're relying on events for just about anything in this game you've probably screwed up hard. Even ermor and co still rely primarily on conquest for their dosh.

Regardless, the point is knowing what it is. Low information environment just makes your variety of choices equally worthless, rather than things you made with deliberation and understanding. And if people are gravitating towards an objectively better design that just means you know what they're doing and can respond accordingly

[Kagus]

Thing is, Turmoil also opens up a lot of good events that you wouldn't be able to get normally, particularly of the magical resource variety. Turm3 Magi3 has a number of events for generating permanent gem-producing/spell-discounting sites.

The main appeal of Turmoil-Luck is that it's point neutral. If you're in a position to leverage the potential gains against the persistent loss of income, you get an advantage without having to put any more points into it.  And of course, in the case of popkill nations, you're not going to be getting much income out of the provinces for very long anyways. And if you're going to take Turmoil, you'll definitely want to take luck specifically because it's tailored to play off of it, not only because of stacking event chances and opening up new good events, but also because a luck scale will make the bad Turmoil events far less likely to occur.

Then again, I'm someone who pretty much NEVER takes death scales unless I'm already dealing with popkill, and certainly never combine Death with positive scales like Luck or Productivity, simply because I can't wrap my head around everyone just heading towards annihilation and the irrelevance of those positive scales, however slowly that happens.

[Grek]

Misfortune 3 with Death 3 is actually a really useful combo for Therodos. You have national air mages, a national air income and an endless hunger for death gems. Hello, Raven Feast!

[chaoticag]

No. Please no.

If there's one thing I hate in fun, broad multiplayer games like this, it's optimizing builds. What is the point of having variety of choices, if people start gravitating towards something known to be objectively better?

The problem with this is, well, we have a lot of players who are ready to open pandora's box so to speak, and we can't put the horrors back in should anyone choose to do so. That being said, I don't think optimizing for events is a game winner. Dominions is very much not a one size fits all strategy, and even the best of scales mean nothing if they're funneled into the worst or the most ill suited troops and mages.

Misfortune 3 with Death 3 is actually a really useful combo for Therodos. You have national air mages, a national air income and an endless hunger for death gems. Hello, Raven Feast!

Kinda. Therodos also has some of the best heroes, so there's a case to be made for a luck of 3. For the most part, luck is good in the sense that after a while it may be your only real source of income alongside permanent gold sites if you hit an expansion wall.

[ThtblovesDF]

Ugh, Dominions is hard...

So I wanted to test around a lil and setup a communion with the following:

Communion Master:

Casting: Communion Master, Power of the Spheres, Light of the Northern Star, Astral shield, Cast Spells

A huge amount of Slaves:

Casting:

Communion Slave, Hold, Hold, Hold, Astral Geyser, Cast Spells

________

It all spells cast perfectly until round 5 (Slaves have 30 fatigue max at this point) - and astral skill of 3 or more, each.  - But they don't cast the Astral Geyser, which would only cost 20 fatigue to cast.

For the next 10-15 turns they don't cast anything and eventually die, even with astral shield on all of them.

Sadness : I

[Il Palazzo]

In dom4 slaves never cast spells.

[Anvilfolk]

So, the bonuses you get from 4+ magics only apply to blessed troops, and the only troops that can be blessed are sacred troops?

[sprinkled chariot]

So, the bonuses you get from 4+ magics only apply to blessed troops, and the only troops that can be blessed are sacred troops?

Kinda yes, except there is sacred shroud artifact, which makes commander with it sacred and always blessed.

[Kagus]

Also whatever commander you select to become your prophet becomes permanently blessed. But yes, in essence that's it.

Sadness : I

As Il Palazzo said, communion/sabbath slaves do not cast spells. This was changed because of the dickery of "reverse communions", which did pretty much exactly what you were testing with.

[Micro102]

So, gift of reason, how do you guys use it? It seems that the best thing to do is summon some powerful unit and then give it item slots.

[USEC_OFFICER]

As Il Palazzo said, communion/sabbath slaves do not cast spells. This was changed because of the dickery of "reverse communions", which did pretty much exactly what you were testing with.

Nah. They were never able to cast spells in any version of Doms, if I remember correctly. Slaves could only Reverse communions worked by having a communion master cast a ton of buffs and then run away. Without the fatigue/stun penalty, you ended up with a bunch of commanders with a bunch of buffs on them who could immediately wake up and act. Which could be quite devastating if, say, they were a bunch of thugs buffed with quickness, stoneskin, luck, etc.

Whoops. I'm thinking about something very similar here. Never mind, you are entirely correct. Though it should be noted that reverse communions only worked if the slaves got to act before any masters in combat, because Dominions is a thing. As such you had to keep a close eye on unit IDs which determined which units got to act before others (and were, because Dominions, almost completely hidden). The Devs changed this behaviour in 4 because it went against their ideas of how a communion should work. Which is understandable, if sad since it prevents a lot of these shenanigans from occurring. _{Though if Soul Vortex is a buff that transfers to communion slaves, you could try to replicate some of the above. Big, beefy dudes that suck up fatigue and health from people around them don't mind being stunned. Probably not worth the time and effort involved though.}

[Frumple]

Yeah, basically the one way to still pull off a reverse communion is have the master load down with various buff spells particularly chosen to make it so everything that attacks the slaves die before the slaves do.

It... usually isn't worth it.

Though I want to say there's also something with getting the master to rout off the map? Probably misremembering.