Bay 12 Games Forum
Dwarf Fortress => DF Dwarf Mode Discussion => Topic started by: Spectre9000 on August 20, 2016, 12:07:55 pm
-
I just recently came across this possibility, and was curious as to the drawbacks/benefits of such a thing? Also, what is the typical method for infecting your dwarves?
-
Oh, this is a good discussion. It's come up before, you should go find it.
So, Pros/Cons.
Pros: Everyone lives forever, needs no food/drink/sleep, gets large attribute bonuses, no skill rust, no one will be attacked by undead or other vampires (I could be wrong, but that's how it works with Adventurers), and also, it's cool. And they don't need to breathe, either, so they can't drown.
Cons: No happy thoughts from food or drink; over a thousand-year lifespan there are a LOT of unhappy thoughts that can build up; dwarves cannot GAIN skills as vampires, nor increase their attributes any farther. Also all civilized creatures will be hostile by default, so no caravans, and new dwarves may be killed before they can be vampirized.
I'm sure there's more of both, but that's what I can think of.
So, usual tricks for infection: Get a vampire to bleed into your water supply, have dwarves drink that rather than alcohol. Vampiric fortress. Ta-da.
Don't let the caravans meet anyone from your fortress though, they might kill them all.
-
My question I believe would be how do you get a vampire to bleed into your water?
Also, I've read that vampires still gain skills, though not attributes?
-
Given that vampires tend to become mayor because of the social skills they've gained during their long life tile they can probably gain skills.
The bleeding discussion has been up several times. Basically you cause the vampire to get injured and bleed either in your existing water supply or in one you intend to set up. You'd cause it to bleed by having it getting hurt e.g. by retracting spikes, falling (onto spikes or just a hard surface), etc. Obviously, you want bleeding wounds rather than crushing. Also, the method somewhat depends on whether you want to keep it alive or not (you probably don't care much about a visitor vampire, for instance).
The caravan issue can be handled by having a split fortress with dorfs in one part ("open" to the world) and one vampire part. You might even have your normal dorfs "ascend" when reaching an advanced age. Obviously, the two parts shouldn't meet, unless you want the live ones to be used as cattle (although you can probably use actual cattle for that, by stunning them).
-
I've also read that vampires have a addiction to alcohol they can't satiate cause they don't drink beer, which leads to them being very unproductive. Is that true?
-
Yes.
They'll eventually probably go insane from alcohol withdrawal. Or they'll be permanently unhappy and unproductive.
-
Set up a tavern on the vampire side of the fort, so your vampires enjoy social drinking and your normal dwarves wont drown when their lungs fill with vomit rather than air.
-
I figured in Adv. mode a cursed vampire can also still raise attributes. Dunno if this works in fort mode, but i would suggest to infect your dorfs with the blood of an cursed one, just incase! (Dunno if the curse effect will be given thru thier blood tho or if they would just turn into regular vampires.)
With using Legends Viewer you can figure out if given vampire dorf is cursed or regular/turned.
Or you just get an adventurer dorf, turn him into a vampire by toppling a statue at a temple and sacrifice yourself in the watersource of your current fort. Might take multiple tries since deities also curse you to be an wereanimal.
(If thats not too "cheaty" for ya!)
-
There is 1 significant disadvantage which I have found makes a fully Vampire Fortress unappealing. Dwarves are still alcohol-dependent, and will suffer withdrawal. The longer a Dwarf goes without booze, the slower it becomes. Performing any meaningful tasks like mining or building a door will take ages. That said, having a small group of Vampires segregated from the main Fortress can be a tremendous asset.
-
There is 1 significant disadvantage which I have found makes a fully Vampire Fortress unappealing. Dwarves are still alcohol-dependent, and will suffer withdrawal. The longer a Dwarf goes without booze, the slower it becomes.
With the addition of taverns (and visiting bards that apply for citizenship) you should be able to make human vampires who won't have the alcohol-dependent tag. I've been working on this in my current fort, was held up due to a lack of vampires (had to make my own using building destroyers and temple statues).
Granted it'll take a couple of years, and all the usual caveats still apply (lack of happy thoughts from food/booze) but they won't slow down. And it won't be the entire Fort unless all of your dwarves have an unfortunate accident... which is an intriguing thought...
-
There is 1 significant disadvantage which I have found makes a fully Vampire Fortress unappealing. Dwarves are still alcohol-dependent, and will suffer withdrawal. The longer a Dwarf goes without booze, the slower it becomes.
With the addition of taverns (and visiting bards that apply for citizenship) you should be able to make human vampires who won't have the alcohol-dependent tag. I've been working on this in my current fort, was held up due to a lack of vampires (had to make my own using building destroyers and temple statues).
You can make your own vampires in fort mode?? How does this work? Do visitors who knock over temples in your fortress get cursed too?
-
Any named intelligent being who topples a statue in a temple may get cursed by mean, cursing, moon-howling & vamping gods. Get a troll, have it kill someone's pet to get a name, then give it special temple to topple in.
-
There is 1 significant disadvantage which I have found makes a fully Vampire Fortress unappealing. Dwarves are still alcohol-dependent, and will suffer withdrawal. The longer a Dwarf goes without booze, the slower it becomes. Performing any meaningful tasks like mining or building a door will take ages. That said, having a small group of Vampires segregated from the main Fortress can be a tremendous asset.
Vampires will accept and drink booze handed to them by a tavern keeper/performer.
-
Any named intelligent being who topples a statue in a temple may get cursed by mean, cursing, moon-howling & vamping gods. Get a troll, have it kill someone's pet to get a name, then give it special temple to topple in.
Yep. And, uh, put the whole operation behind a drawbridge maybe. The night creature strength buff makes things like Ettin werecreatures or Cave Ogre vampires into a real PITA if they get loose, and if it's a werecritter they become trap immune when they turn >.>
Vampires will accept and drink booze handed to them by a tavern keeper/performer.
Well heck, this changes everything.
-
Way back in DFVD I invented the method that I think is still the most popular, the well of unlife. You build a 1x1 room with a lever operated spike trap, you get a vampire to stand inside the room, you pull the lever until there's blood everywhere, and then you designate the chamber to be filled as a pond. Build a well over that, forbid all the booze, and your dwarves will drink the blood tainted water thereby becoming vampires.
-
Or, build an empty reservoir and drop a vampire from above so he bursts in a rain of limbs. later, fill the reservoir and engrave the images of the killed vampire as an idol, worshiped for his sacrifice for dwarf-vamp-kind.
-
I just had a siege and one of the attacking trolls got cursed by toppling a statue while stomping on my courtyard temple, unfortunately my military killed it so i didnt get to see what curse it got:(
But i got a guestion related to the topic, is it possible to make/maintain a squad of werecreature husks? because that would be awesome basicly indestructible squad of elite soldiers
-
You need two things: Husking Cloud, and a Werecreature you can convince to bite your dwarves without killing them.
Something small in its were-form is preferable, as then it heals your dwarves without making them TOO dangerous while transformed.
The problem is the husking: You CANNOT command them. If you design a FOOLPROOF release-and-recapture design, you MIGHT be able to use them as supersoldiers, but they've got to be carefully trained beforehand as they won't train once used.
Also they won't kill undead; but every other living thing is fair game. Which encompasses most things.
Don't send them against dragons, or else you will have !!werehusk-supersoldiers!! and puddles of their former equipment.
For CREATING the squad: suggestion is to use Adventurers. Make them werecreatures by carefully constructing a complex they can access; after training them, get into the complex IN ADVENTURE MODE and become infected. Then, navigating the exit that is somehow impossible for creatures to follow (chasm jump, anyone?), put them in the specially designed barracks section that can expose them to a husking cloud after they're ready for it. Be prepared to either savescum MANY times to get a nonlethal bite from a large creature, or use a useless creature that can't kill them. They'll still heal this way. All dwarves/humans in the squad MUST be of the same were-race. Else they will kill each other. Equip and train them BEFORE you husk them, and also work on their attributes before they are were-creatured. A couple years of militia training will work their attributes up to max, then you can double and then triple them, all the way to whatever the ultimate hardcap is. Husking triples, were-creaturing doubles. Then, expose all of them to the husking clouds. Make CERTAIN you can either recapture or safely destroy them from afar. Marksdwarves are NOT effective, but blunt damage (i.e. dwarven pressure washer) is. Do NOT engage shortly before the full moon; look up the timetable, it's reliable, from the wiki. Otherwise you will be facing opponents who will heal if they survive whatsoever, even partially beheaded or de-limbed. If you can, retrap them. They should be lured by any living creature on the map that they can path to; lock the fortress down BEFORE releasing them from a bunker COMPLETELY SEPARATE FROM the main fortress. No mistakes here. Use some cave-in traps to drop them into cages. That ought to be foolproof. And you can build a small bridge from a central pillar, in a spiral type design, to contain a reusable live bait animal. Something that will NOT attack them, or spam repasturing cancellation messages cause it charged or something. Place a pressure plate some tiles back from the last turn, to drop every creature in there at once. Perhaps create a rapid-activation system to draw them all in, THEN drop them all in one. Or just build a lot of traps that can be locked in case of invaders. Gonna require either a floodgate or drawbridge on the outside, otherwise invaders WILL enter and possibly kill the bait.
Ideas, ideas. Time to get creative.
Reset time=massive, but doable. I think. Only worthwhile for the sort of super-soldier creatures you would create like that.
-
I just had a siege and one of the attacking trolls got cursed by toppling a statue while stomping on my courtyard temple, unfortunately my military killed it so i didnt get to see what curse it got:(
But i got a guestion related to the topic, is it possible to make/maintain a squad of werecreature husks? because that would be awesome basicly indestructible squad of elite soldiers
A squad of Were-Dwarves is indeed !FUN! and profitable. However, last time I checked, Lycanthropy can not be transmitted via water like Vampire blood can. The trick is getting them infected without killing them (only a bite piercing the flesh will do).
-
The wererification of the squad is the easy part, by building a hall outside that has 10 rooms(locking candy or steel armored dorfs each in their own room) closed with raisebridgedoors and levers right outside the rooms(for your wereadventurer to sneak in and bite them hopefully when they sleep) and one leading outside to a huskification yard(this requires huskclouds to move up/down over the walls&into the yard do they?) then exit door out of the supersoldiercomplex(not into fort! duh) the two outer doors levers need to be in the fort offcourse.
I wonder how good would a fairly well trained and equipped squad like that fare against say 200 goblins?
Hmm goblins gave me another idea! an army of werehusktrolls or elephants!
-
A squad of Were-Dwarves is indeed !FUN! and profitable. However, last time I checked, Lycanthropy can not be transmitted via water like Vampire blood can. The trick is getting them infected without killing them (only a bite piercing the flesh will do).
[/quote]
Yeah thats where the wereadventurer comes in, if the target is wearing too much armor wrestle some off and start biting a demigod elephantman skilled wrestler/biter should accomplish that
-
The wererification of the squad is the easy part, by building a hall outside that has 10 rooms(locking candy or steel armored dorfs each in their own room) closed with raisebridgedoors and levers right outside the rooms(for your wereadventurer to sneak in and bite them hopefully when they sleep) and one leading outside to a huskification yard(this requires huskclouds to move up/down over the walls&into the yard do they?) then exit door out of the supersoldiercomplex(not into fort! duh) the two outer doors levers need to be in the fort offcourse.
I wonder how good would a fairly well trained and equipped squad like that fare against say 200 goblins?
Hmm goblins gave me another idea! an army of werehusktrolls or elephants!
Goblins, unless you run into one of their legendary weapon masters, are very soft targets even for normal legendary melee dwarves. A squad like this would rip apart 200 goblins without even raising a sweat. A husked squads of candy clad legendary dwarves are the sort of thing you would send in to try and go toe to toe with the HFS.
Does a husked lycathrope even retain it's lycanthropic nature once it is turned? If so, werehusks would be among the most terrifying beings one could come across in DF since they would be tireless, deathless killing machines that completely regenerated with the rise of each full moon.
Assuming the game even allows for the creation of such a thing, a necromancer werehusk would be absolutely insane since one of the only decent ways to take down a husk is to bisect it thus you would likely be using edged weapons against the thing and chopping off limbs etc. Then it would raise it's own severed limbs via necromancy to attack you with. Worse yet, if the fight lasted long enough for the full moon to arrive the necromancer husk and all it's severed zombie body parts would then regenerate back into fully functional copies of the original necromancer werehusk. It would become a self-propagating army of one.
-
oh the game totally allows for such thing (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=104399.0)
E: It occurs to me that while it is difficult to teach them to read books, some of you probably has totally let named demons into the temple. Can you have weredemons or are they [SUPERNATURAL] already?
-
Oh, this is a good discussion. It's come up before, you should go find it.
So, Pros/Cons.
Pros: Everyone lives forever, needs no food/drink/sleep, gets large attribute bonuses, no skill rust, no one will be attacked by undead or other vampires (I could be wrong, but that's how it works with Adventurers), and also, it's cool. And they don't need to breathe, either, so they can't drown.
Cons: No happy thoughts from food or drink; over a thousand-year lifespan there are a LOT of unhappy thoughts that can build up; dwarves cannot GAIN skills as vampires, nor increase their attributes any farther. Also all civilized creatures will be hostile by default, so no caravans, and new dwarves may be killed before they can be vampirized.
I'm sure there's more of both, but that's what I can think of.
So, usual tricks for infection: Get a vampire to bleed into your water supply, have dwarves drink that rather than alcohol. Vampiric fortress. Ta-da.
Don't let the caravans meet anyone from your fortress though, they might kill them all.
Do bear in mind that, if I recall correctly, vampires are not able to further increase their skill levels.
-
Do bear in mind that, if I recall correctly, vampires are not able to further increase their skill levels.
Not 100% sure but i think they can increase skills but not stats.
-
Goblins, unless you run into one of their legendary weapon masters, are very soft targets even for normal legendary melee dwarves. A squad like this would rip apart 200 goblins without even raising a sweat. A husked squads of candy clad legendary dwarves are the sort of thing you would send in to try and go toe to toe with the HFS.
True goblins are weak.
Does a husked lycathrope even retain it's lycanthropic nature once it is turned? If so, werehusks would be among the most terrifying beings one could come across in DF since they would be tireless, deathless killing machines that completely regenerated with the rise of each full moon.
If you mean the regeneration part then yes. I got the idea for werehusk military from adventure mode where i attacked my own fort with an elephantman werehusk without armor and weapons
to test just how much beating it could take, well i got bored after a while of just standing there getting maimed and crawled out with parts severed,slashed,broken pulped etc.
Assuming the game even allows for the creation of such a thing, a necromancer werehusk would be absolutely insane since one of the only decent ways to take down a husk is to bisect it thus you would likely be using edged weapons against the thing and chopping off limbs etc. Then it would raise it's own severed limbs via necromancy to attack you with. Worse yet, if the fight lasted long enough for the full moon to arrive the necromancer husk and all it's severed zombie body parts would then regenerate back into fully functional copies of the original necromancer werehusk. It would become a self-propagating army of one.
This would be awesome
-
How much blood is needed to fully infect a well? Or to rephrase it, will the well eventually become uncontaminated once all the vamp blood is used up, or is just a splattering on the floor enough to permanently infect a pool?
-
How much blood is needed to fully infect a well? Or to rephrase it, will the well eventually become uncontaminated once all the vamp blood is used up, or is just a splattering on the floor enough to permanently infect a pool?
The tile below the well needs to have a spattering of vamp blood i think thats enough, not sure about the permanency.
But the easiest way to fort vampirification in my opinion is using an adventurer.