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DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: December 12, 2022, 03:25:06 am »
Try not to bait people about their concerns. It won't help anything.
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DF General Discussion / Re: Steam Official Announcement Thread (0.47.05 Edition!)
« on: December 08, 2022, 02:30:35 am »"those guys aren't going to buy it, they all despise Steam and are holding out for the free ASCII version - hipsters that they are".
I doubt anyone said or thought that. Tarn and Zack must be ridiculously busy right now. I think it's fair of them to expect that people on the dwarf fortress forums would be aware of the release without requiring an explicit devblog entry when there was one not long ago saying it'd be out in 4 days. They must be swamped right now in ways they didn't imagine.
Yep. It's the same game but in ASCII (or with a nice ascii-ish tileset). He's not gonna maintain two different games just for some guys complaining about muscle memory.Even the ASCII version has the new UI design apparently, just not the pretty graphics. You'll need to relearn or stay at 0.47.05 forever."those guys aren't going to buy it, they all despise Steam and are holding out for the free ASCII version - hipsters that they are"Not that far off. I already bought it, but trying to learn the new interface after committing the old one into muscle memory is about as intuitive as riding a bicycle with rear wheel steering. I'm going back to ASCII as soon as it's out.
Yeah, this is what I've been waiting to see ever since the steam release and mouse support pivot was announced. I can easily learn a new mouse UI, but I can't forget my baseline ease of use with the now old interface. I will always argue that the interface was fine, the worst thing was the huge non-alphabetized lists. If the new interface turns out to be slower than the old way once I learn it, that would be a constant nagging thing in the back of my mind whenever I play. And in that scenario I can see myself just putting the game to bed and saying goodbye. So I think it's best for me to wait for the classic release and the extra work put into keyboard support that Tarn was only recently reminded some people want to see. Ideally you'll be able to disable the mouse entirely and not lose access to anything, but I don't have high hopes.
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DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: December 07, 2022, 03:25:45 am »
I agree. And if something makes two or more people happy for every one it pisses off they should do it. There are a lot of things I am a lonely curmudgeon on when it comes to DF, but I doubt I'm very alone when it comes to NFTs.
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DF General Discussion / Re: Steam Official Announcement Thread (0.47.05 Edition!)
« on: December 07, 2022, 01:57:44 am »
Yeah, I don't intend to play yet either, but I logged onto steam long enough to buy it and then made an itch account to get it there, too. I see it as a meta donation doing my bit to bump the figures and maybe add to hype which might encourage actual new people to buy it. They deserve to be millionaires if anyone does.
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DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: December 07, 2022, 01:49:52 am »i have an email from bay12 from 2006 thanking me for my donation
will you make NFTs for people that donated back in the day? that would be really sweet
congratulations on the steam launch! i have a mac so i'll have to wait a little longer to play this new version but i'm looking forward to it!
I think NFTs would be a double edged sword. Sure, it might encourage some people but I know of at least one person who would never donate again.
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DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: November 02, 2022, 02:44:16 am »So I'm dipping back into DF, and haven't been able to parse a clear answer to this out of the previous FotF replies:
What is the state of keyboard control in DF and what plans are there for it going forward?
Here's the latest from Toady. You can read a little bit before this quote in this thread for some context (if you've already read this, sorry haha!).
Keyboard stuff: There was some confusion over in the linked suggestions thread above and elsewhere about hotkeys etc., and generally I should clarify the different pieces of keyboard support and where we are at:
For hotkeys, I'll have to move some of them, since I can't assume we have a numberpad and wasd has to camp out over on the left side of the keyboard forever, but hotkeys for opening and using menus seems pretty easy to support. We do have to show them to the player somehow. Tooltips are one typical way, and there could be some layer that draws them under buttons as well (I guess some games have done, like, holding 'alt' for this kind of thing.)
For designations, I think the wasd+mouse combination can handle some things that people aren't giving it credit for (long tunnels etc.), and camera keys also work for doing up/down staircases. But we've listened to the feedback here, and a cursor mode is easy to support, since most of the code is sitting around for it and we already have cursor graphics. We just have to make sure new people don't get stuck in there.
For menu navigation, missing the numberpad and our old (sometimes inconsistent and annoying) methods of scrolling put us in a bind in some cases. Focus and button use etc. probably can't be the same between the various menus, because they are quite different from each other. Though I think, as with the Classic display and adventure mode, the main issue here is time. I see the pathway through for Classic/adventure stuff though, so it's easy to commit to doing those in as timely a fashion as possible after launch if that's the way we go. With a few of the menus, I'm not sure how much work it'd take.
We read through all of the comments and take them seriously, even the negative ones - there's no need to be rude or assume the worst. We're going to try to address issues and we think things are going to turn out well, but everything just takes time.
Don't expect it immediately and don't expect it to be as comprehensive as it was. Those of us who cared dropped the ball because Toady didn't think anyone did.
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DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: July 22, 2022, 08:10:09 pm »
I advise caution in any attempt to make nobility more central to the game without significant changes to nobility, which I don't think you have time to make. Nobility is currently not fun or interesting. Players kill them not because they're sadistic but because it's the most direct way to remove an unfun mechanic.
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DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: June 02, 2022, 05:05:44 pm »
To put it simply, if the premium release was the only DF going forward I'd say you were ruining the game, ruining it for rational reasons, but still. So we all (the relatively tiny number of people who care*) put our hopes in the classic version retaining the important things, even if it lags behind as a second or third class citizen. The news over time has been cause for pessimism, though.
*even if this whole forum cared it's dwarfed by the potential steam players.
*even if this whole forum cared it's dwarfed by the potential steam players.
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DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: June 02, 2022, 04:30:25 am »
Sorry to hear that things have gotten tough again. I can't speak for anyone else, but I've lost interest in DF because the current main push isn't for me (graphical tiles and steam). It's like years worth of hiatus. Or worse, as there are intimations that some of the things I do already value are being sidelined in one way or another. Like ascii, or keyboard support as specifically mentioned in this latest FOTF reply. I do make a mental effort to stop myself whenever I feel like you've left me behind in order to court the vast number of people who have never loved DF but might if only x or y. You're not, and it wouldn't be the wrong choice if you were. So instead of sticking around and harping about what may or may not be I'm waiting to see what will be. Maybe that's wrong and I should of stayed to pipe up with "But my keyboard!" whenever an opportunity came up. It'd be hard to do that sort of thing without being unhelpfully negative, I think. The other day I started writing about the difficulty question but deleted without posting because I don't feel like my opinion is relevant. I'm not saying I'm right, but it's the way I feel, so it doesn't matter if I'm wrong. Neither of you have the time to coddle me and hold my hand to make sure I don't feel that way haha. Hopefully I'm a rarity.
Anyway, it's been ages since I chipped in, and things have stabilized on my end again for the first time in a while, so I've joined the Patreon. It's a shame that things need to get so bad for you before people like me are reminded to do our bit, but that's human nature. I'll buy it on steam, too, to bump up the numbers and hype at the time. The DF dream I had isn't as aligned as it once was, but the dream is still there and I'll wait years more. Once the dust settles on this release and its forced circumstances we'll have a clearer idea of what DF is and where it's going.
Anyway, it's been ages since I chipped in, and things have stabilized on my end again for the first time in a while, so I've joined the Patreon. It's a shame that things need to get so bad for you before people like me are reminded to do our bit, but that's human nature. I'll buy it on steam, too, to bump up the numbers and hype at the time. The DF dream I had isn't as aligned as it once was, but the dream is still there and I'll wait years more. Once the dust settles on this release and its forced circumstances we'll have a clearer idea of what DF is and where it's going.
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DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: What's going on in your fort?
« on: September 17, 2021, 09:01:59 pm »
Your king likes to eat plump helmets while sitting on his throne, and spawn is left from the meal. As for the horses, you need to assign a pasture zone over some actual pasture or they will eventually starve. If unassigned to pastures they tend to hang around meeting zones, otherwise the initial wagon site. They don't need to be watered.
https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Pasture
https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Grazer
https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Pasture
https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Grazer
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Other Games / Re: Blurb on Games that probably don't deserve their own threads.
« on: June 28, 2021, 12:43:04 am »snip
Thanks for the write-up and links, I appreciate it.
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DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: January 10, 2021, 07:25:00 pm »Has generative/adaptive music in DF been suggested before?
Yes. Here are just a couple that have procedural and music in the title.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=159551.msg7102711#msg7102711
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=149508.msg6111038#msg6111038
Although, I assume you mean "how hard do you think it would be to implement and if you do hypothetically intend to, what sort of priority is it compared to things already in the pipeline?" which you wont find an answer for in the suggestion threads.
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DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: What's going on in your fort?
« on: October 11, 2020, 08:39:17 am »Spoiler: uwu (click to show/hide)
Improved it 1 million%. That's the work of an auteur. chefkiss.jpeg
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DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: What's going on in your fort?
« on: October 11, 2020, 05:09:18 am »The stray billy goat was stung by a bumblebee.
Truly an event that will be remembered for ages to come.
The engraving of the heinous crime.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: October 06, 2020, 07:19:23 am »in every demonstration i've seen of the new guis, all the interactions have been made with the mouse. currently, i play with the mouse completely disabled via the init files - will the new graphical interfaces [which are looking very very pretty, by the way!] be usable with just my keyboard?
apologies if this has already been answered elsewhere.
Yeah, I had the same concerns and asked about it not too far back.
QuoteQuote from: Shonai_DwellerAre the icons sliders and other graphical parts of the interface that you're adding locked to the official tileset? I'm just wondering how the new interface will work for anyone who doesn't buy the Steam version. Or indeed in Steam's curses tileset, is that Curses plus graphical icons? Different icons to match the ASCII style? Presumably all the new rectangle drawing tools and such will be fully functional?Quote from: DGAre all new UI elements and any changes to current ones supporting keyboard only input?
They are locked, insofar as everything else is - it's set up currently as the creature graphics have been, where you link up images with text files and so forth, and the fancy image sets aren't going to be in DF Classic (which is likely what the Steam curses version will be, same as the free one.) That does leave us the question of what DF Classic is, when we've been aiming for "no graphics but as many of the interface improvements as possible." We'll very soon reach a point where the changes will require some sort of substitute. Whether those are literal text buttons (with line outlines and ASCII symbols inside), or something else, is yet to be seen. The way the interface currently works where it still respects the old grid somewhat (rather than the new graphical layer, which doesn't respect the old grid, other than being a grid at all) makes it much easier to handle ASCII parallel work on an ongoing basis.
Yeah, the continuing plan, which seems feasible thus far, is to maintain keyboard alternatives everywhere. There are some questions here and there about how some nested widget might work, if various little tick boxes end up being convenient, and so forth, but having quick key/sequence methods is important.