Bay 12 Games Forum
Dwarf Fortress => DF Bug Reports => Topic started by: Spectre on April 03, 2010, 10:04:07 am
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I was training a 9 dwarves strong squad for over a year and just now my jeweler went beserk because i dont have any gems dug out. So I sent them in to do a little policing, but they just cant get him.
They battle now for ~over 2 months against a dwarf with no military skills and they lose slowly.
I have 2 recruits with mayor injuries while the beserk dwarf only sustained some mangeld fingers and heals his bruises!
Meanwhile I seem to suceed in starving him to death, as all dwarves in that battle are now starving and dehydrated.
And some of those recuits even started they military career with average skills in fighting or armor-using.
Considering that I wanted to train them so I could explore the underground...
It seems I wouldnt get 2 feets into the first cavern. That is simply not fun.
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Maybe your jeweler is superdwarvenly agile/tough ? :o
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I checked him after he went berserk. Since he was an enemy at this point, all I got was a description where it said he was fat. I looked just now and it says he has 'bulky muscles' :-\
And one of my recruits just bleed out...
You would think 9 dwarves with at least a slightly military training and leather armor could finish a civilian before they died of thirst, which I now expect every second.
I think I should abandon this lot of elves...
Edit: Just now my second jeweler got possessed, runs strait trough the fighting mob and starts demanding gems..
2Edit: My bersek jeweler has now so much muscles, that his body got upgraded to 'large'. Just now he put down 2 recruits in quick succession, so that they wont stand up again for quite some time.
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Are your military wrestlers? Because wrestlers are way underpowered compared to the last version (if I remember correctly, purposefully). I had one punch a berserk soap maker about 30 times, barely bruising him. An axe dwarf then came up and killed the guy in one swipe. Wrestlers really do need a boost.
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Yeah they are wrestlers, but so is the jeweler.
And just know they finaly killed him! And I only lost 2 of 9 dwarfes with 3 more dwarfs being in the hospital. And nobody starved while fighting! Allthoug all my wrestlers are rushing to the foodstockpiles right now.
If you ask me, there is something mayor not right.
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Train swordsdwarves. Wrestlers seem really weak from my experience.
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swordsdwarves are the way to go for sure, my adventurer got epic advances in maces/fighting from systematically breaking the bones of wolves with a light mace, recovered some good quality bronze plate -then died after being stabbed in the brain by a run-of-mill swordsgoblin in a single stroke
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Currently, blunt weapons are pathetically weak. Piercing not much better. Only slashing is helpful.
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I think I know what's going on. Our military dwarves somehow have gotten into their skulls that they're supposed to attack the outermost extremities of an enemy, while the opposition goes straight for the vital organs. Whenever I check the wounds screen of foes they've got red fingers and toes, while my dwarves have a more conventional spread of wounds.
N.B. this goes for at least wrestlers, axedwarves and swordsdwarves.
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My dwarves seem to like touching fish people. All the time my dwarves try to grapple the damn things. I think the whole lot of my military have some weird fetish or something.
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Wrestlers are not underpowered. They are however more realistic.
Axe>hand.
Other forms of damage are a little underpowered, but Wrestling should be amazingly useless.
Though I appear to be the exception. all my wrestlers have figured out the art of cutting their opponents with the enviroment. I keep finding trog blood all over from my legendary wrestler.
Another reason Wrestlers suck now is they no longer are invulnerable to attacks now that Dodging is part of the Dodger skill instead of Wrestler.
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How did you manage to not dig out any gems? In 31.0x I can't dig a bedroom without hitting a gem cluster.
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Are your military wrestlers? Because wrestlers are way underpowered compared to the last version (if I remember correctly, purposefully). I had one punch a berserk soap maker about 30 times, barely bruising him. An axe dwarf then came up and killed the guy in one swipe. Wrestlers really do need a boost.
Wrestling has been nerfed senseless. Heck I preferred when it was OP...
I've done Arena mode. Wrestling is useless. Even if you have MAXIMUM. Skills. You don't usually break bones.
Now I know in real life you don't punch someone in the face and their head mangles and their brain "breaks" and their eyes explode...But, you also don't take 100000000 punches from a dwarven Chuck Norris and keep running too.
As for millitary. It's bitter sweet; sometimes they're epic. Sometimes they fail. Pure luck really, the new "Artery" wounds make even a slight cut lethal. My axedwarf, dabbling in skill hit a rutherer and killed it within a few turns. Just a small cut. Literally.
But, when another one bit him, it was on his leg I believe. He died before I knew what happened.
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Military seems hit or miss in the current (admittedly buggy) version. I've had dwarfs die to Elk Birds, of all things, while in another fortress (that died to an unknown crash) I had four decently equipped dwarfs take out two forgotten beasts in up-close and personal combat without taking a scratch. They weren't even trained beyond Adequate, as I still am loath to take full advantage of the military scheduling system. I've used it once and it just felt..clunky. And buggy, I mentioned that earlier, no?
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Wrestlers are not underpowered. They are however more realistic.
Axe>hand.
Other forms of damage are a little underpowered, but Wrestling should be amazingly useless.
Though I appear to be the exception. all my wrestlers have figured out the art of cutting their opponents with the enviroment. I keep finding trog blood all over from my legendary wrestler.
Another reason Wrestlers suck now is they no longer are invulnerable to attacks now that Dodging is part of the Dodger skill instead of Wrestler.
Mmmm, Weapon fighting vs Wrestling: Large weapons, like axes, longswords, maces, spears, whips, and crossbows... Are very easy to disarm or at very least disable. So an excellent wrestler with good enough agility has a reasonable chance of defeating a large weapon opponent. Wrestlers with enough skill should be able to break limbs and apply chokes, however, it would take much more time to kill an opponent than with pretty much any weapon, so if there is more than 1 opponent the wrestler gets tied up with 1, and killed by the other.
Striking should be less useful against any type of weapon, but potentially more useful against multiple weak opponents, and about on par with wrestling (if the wrestler attacks a striker neither has a clear advantage).
Small weapons, short sworts and daggers, should dominate wrestlers, and edge out strikers, but lose to most large weapons (unless it's used in conjunction with wrestling, disarm the large weapon opponent and THEN stab them). Small weapons are extremely difficult to disarm without getting seriously hurt, but of course, they don't have the damage potential or range of a large weapon.
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If you have no weapons and you're fighting against a guy with a large sharp object, the odds are not in your favor.
Unarmed wrestling vs weapons is quite accurate as currently stands.
I think people are just spoiled by the jedi kung fu masters of 40D.
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Spears seem to work fine for me aswell. My "adequate" speardwarves constantly stab gobbos in the brains.
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Meh... We could say the new wrestling is more realistic, but then again, that's talking for humans... We are considering dwarves that can lift the corpse of a dragon and stroll happily off with it, I think that getting in the grip of one of those little buggers would be a most unpleasant experience...
Besides the new wrestling leading to increasingly FUN experiences, I think perhaps some of it's old luster should be returned.
Btw, recently in adventure mode it seems like the only good weapons are the ones that can sever body parts. All the others take like 20+ hits to kill something (unless you get lucky), and spears and such are often found shattering bones instead of piercing organs.
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i got similar problems... An orge (genesis modded version) attacked my fisher and followed him to my fort. He passed thru two of my stonefall traps with only minor damage to his head an spine. after that he got attacked from a war dog i chained near the entrance and the orge struck her down with a single strike (throw her against the next wall). after that my first military dwarf arrived, he was an westler (seem that he forgot his sword ::)) an also got struck down within a few seconds. than another stray dog attacked him. after that things went crazy. the orge had only a few wounded bodyparts (yellow) but it seemed that he wasnt able to hit that dog! few moments later my highmaster swordsdwarf and my proficent axedwarf arrived. they fought against the orge but made nearly no damage... the fought for neary a season and could not do more harm than wound any of the orges bodyparts (everything yellow). the dog was still "tanking" ^^. after an endless fight in my fort (the rest of my dwars could not do anything because the wanted to eat and drink but my dwarfs were fighting the orge near the food stockpiles *sight*) one of my 3 heroes managed to cut the orge simply into two pieces. he/she cut off the upper body (or the lower (whatever you prefer ^^)
i think thats not what fighting should be. but a "fun" stoy indeed ^^
PS: this was not the first time something like that happend to me (a cavecroco and a wolf (!) did the same. i noticed that every of that creatures has lost one of their backtooth during th fight. not sure but i think it always was the right one. does that matter...?
PPS: i'm native german please excuse eventually bad language :)
greetings and happy dwarfing
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If you have no weapons and you're fighting against a guy with a large sharp object, the odds are not in your favor.
Unarmed wrestling vs weapons is quite accurate as currently stands.
I think people are just spoiled by the jedi kung fu masters of 40D.
Depends on how skilled the person with the knife is and how skilled the person fighting him unarmed is.
If said unarmed person is a Legendary, martial artist. If anything. That other guy's severely fu**ed.
And that's exactly how it should be, Legendary should simply be harder to obtain. It's more ridiculous having Legendary Wrestlers running left and right about the Fortress and losing to one Dabbling Goblin Swordsman than being unstoppable ( Which, in a way would be kinda accurate what with being, Legendary, which is an over-used tag not taken very seriously in my opinion. )
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Can't agree more, high skill levels should be powerfull, and even at the cost of being difficult to obtain.
Certainly in previous versions even low skilled wrestlers were really strong, but now seeing a Legendary wrestler dwarf being unable to, while facing a dabbling armed opponent, just disarm him, bend the enemy body in 4 parts, eat him, throw his opponent wife into a bottomless pit, and teach his children about the value of the martial trance all of this in the same move feels really underwhelming when you see that happening.
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I think the problem is that grappling needs to be combined with some sort subdue and arrest or finishing move, right now when two unarmed dorfs fight it seems like they just fondle each other until someone starves to death.
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Don't quite understand what you guys are saying. My wrestlers tend to grate their opponents faces into the walls, break every arm and leg and then start shit-kicking them since their opponents guts, lower spine, and neck have all been broken by a sudden collision to the floor. Wrestling can be dangerous in this version. At least more then hammers are.
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I think the problem is that grappling needs to be combined with some sort subdue and arrest or finishing move, right now when two unarmed dorfs fight it seems like they just fondle each other until someone starves to death.
Urist McHelmsley grapples the carp.
Urist McHelmsley hits the Pedigree!
Carp falls unconscious.
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Size has a lot to do with wrestling effectiveness.
1) Small creature has harder time of breaking hold of grip.
2) Large creature has easier time locking on to limbs.
3) Large creature has easier time breaking limbs.
4) Large creature does more damage via throwing. Size difference greatly increases damage, up to the point of exploding bodies.
5) Large creature takes less strangle turns to make small creature pass out.
And the title of this thread should be: "Wrestling is just too weak."
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I have a new theory, in the arena wrestlers can kill each other but dorfs spawned in the area are naked. Is it possible that the problem is wrestlers are grabbing clothing and get stuck trying to strangle someones hat until they die?
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I actually had it where a mother caring a baby was killed by a goblin and the baby went berserk.
That baby single handedly killed all six goblins but it didn't stop there.
I sent my military, witch consisted of 4 recruits and 3 spear dwarves(not very well trained but hey its a berserk baby) after the baby not expecting it to massacre my entire military then proceed to kill 20 other dwarves before I could trap it. But the damage was done and the tantrum spiral began. 100 dwarf fortress lost to a baby.
Maybe berserk dwarves are a bit too strong.
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Against berserk dorfs you just need to line your halls with cage traps and build a zoo/insane asylum.
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That baby is godlike.
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personally, although yes, the military is a bit iffy, with weapons other than swords, axes and spears not doing much, I think there's a simple solution for now...
TRAPS.
come on people. You can defend an entire fort against a gobbo siege if you can build your drowning traps.
I had a magma-mist trap in one of my 40d games. It fried almost 18 gobbo sieges entirely by itself. Oh, and an elven caravan before I managed to automate it properly.
The problem was reloading it...
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We could have brass knuckles and the like for "unarmed" d0rfs.
Punch that breaks the jaws of 10,000 carp!
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Not really seeing this in 31.06 myself.
Had my first titan show up, was a bit worried at how tough it would be so I shuffled my military around a bit and assembled a crack squad of experts and up. I tried to get them to form up and attack at once but my master hammerdwarf ran on ahead of the others.
Fortunately I needn't have worried. One shot with a steel warhammer tore its shoulder off, no more Mr. Titan. Hammerdwarf barely broke a sweat.
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That hammers are effective against statues is as it should be. I am not certain, how the bugfixes in .06 solve any of the issues in this thread, so it could be, that the millitary finaly starts to work as it should be. I think there is still much testing required.
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At some people saying its realistic that an armed opponent be able to easily take out wrestlers or that wrestling should not be strong at all, you don't seem to take into account numbers and dwarves lack of self preservation. Of course this would apply to armed dwarves as well, but what I'm saying is that if you have half a dozen or more guys charging at you putting your harm above their safety, you are most likely going to get your weapon arm grabbed by one while another either tries to further disable you or begins to pound on you while you are being held.
On the other hand this doesn't take into account each of those 6+ guys trying to grab you fingers of toes before they would try to stop you from hacking them apart.
What I mean is that while there are lots of things that could be fixed about it, slapping a "Its meant to suck" on wrestling is a big cop-out.
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If the fight is 10v1 of wrestlers vs a swordswarf then the wrestlers will probably win. With half of the wrestlers dead. Thats not a very good kill ratio.
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But its better than all 10 of them being dead.
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Ok is my current save glitched out or what! I'm playing in around year 100 in a world where a dwarf civ (the one I'm apart of) conquered a goblin civ without killing its demonlord so we have a "co-king" who is a moose-demon. I live beside an allied goblin fortress the nearest hostile goblins are quite far away and demon ruled was well they live right beside elves which is actually horrible because nearly every ambush is lead by an elite elf archer. Whats insane is 2 years into the game at about 40 population I have had an insane problem show up. First ambush consisted of an elf with no ear called the suicidal eviscerator a elf with a crossbow and 6 goblin archers with him came 2 squads of spears 2 with swords and then another with all archers lead by another elf each squad had about 5-8 goblins and with full copper armor and iron or copper weapons and most of them had a "leader" with iron armor in addition I raised my bridges knowing I couldn't beat that even if everyone in my fort was a warrior a full season went by and by the end there were 80 goblins and it still was "just" an ambush then some dwarven traders showed up and every last one of them was killed and the ambushers all left so I lowered my bridges and about 3 seconds later the suicidal eviscerator was suddenly back him and his squad somehow managed to make it to my depot and his squad ALONE killed every last dwarf in my fort even after I drafted everyone they ran out of arrows and bolts fast but this elf just went about smacking everyone with his crossbow and killed everyone. I also had about 30 wardogs which I assume are useless in 2010 version now because in another save about 20 of them failed to kill a single goblin completely unarmored with nothing but a spear.
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... What the hell did that block of text have to do with the thread?
Also, on the note of melee combat, a good wrestler should be able to do massive damage.A single kick to the face by a black belt can break your nose and shatter several other bones, and if 3 massive bulks of flesh, or hell, 2 ordinary drunken dwarfs rush at an incompetent opponent a world of hurt will occur.
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... What the hell did that block of text have to do with the thread?
Also, on the note of melee combat, a good wrestler should be able to do massive damage.A single kick to the face by a black belt can break your nose and shatter several other bones, and if 3 massive bulks of flesh, or hell, 2 ordinary drunken dwarfs rush at an incompetent opponent a world of hurt will occur.
That's exactly what I was thinking. If you get in a barfight with the same number of ordinary humans (or -haha- elves) and ordinary dwarves, I am sure everyone in this forum would expect the dwarves to wipe ass.
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... What the hell did that block of text have to do with the thread?
Also, on the note of melee combat, a good wrestler should be able to do massive damage.A single kick to the face by a black belt can break your nose and shatter several other bones, and if 3 massive bulks of flesh, or hell, 2 ordinary drunken dwarfs rush at an incompetent opponent a world of hurt will occur.
They're employing pankration, which means that the kicks they do use aren't going to be the snap head kicks used in something like Tae Kwan Do. They're supposed to be elbowing the throat (crushed larynx), putting them in headlocks, and kicking them in the 'nads. Pankration is nasty.
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They're employing pankration, which means that the kicks they do use aren't going to be the snap head kicks used in something like Tae Kwan Do. They're supposed to be elbowing the throat (crushed larynx), putting them in headlocks, and kicking them in the 'nads. Pankration is nasty.
Nasty like a barfight. A barfight with drunken, angry dwarven soldiers. Remember how they train? You get hit with a weapon untill you learn how to not get hit.
You guys in america don't get much books with the dirty fantasy do you? That description sounds acurate to me.
Especially the "crushed larynx" part.
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To be honest, a Legendary Wrestler could probably kick the utter crap out of a martial arts user. I thought that was the whole idea of being a legend at wrestling? I can understand even a novice crossbowman could take cheap shots from afar and kill 10 legendary wrestler dwarves, but the fact a novice swordsman could do it, even in armor, is ridiculous.
Wake up people. This isn't some weak ass kid trying to punch a mountain of muscle in a skin of steel, it's angry, manly gods of fighting gang-raping frail inexperienced men in low quality gear. The Dwarves should win easily.
And I know alot of people dislike how overpowered wrestling is, but I think nerfing it to the point of sheer worthlessness actually makes the game less realistic, my teacher's friend died from a bunch of kids beating him up. Unarmed fighting seems under-rated in your eyes, have any of you ever actually been punched? I tell you it hurts like hell and in the right spots it can do alot of damage if the guy is pretty damn strong.
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Good choice for a necro, this topic is worth discussing.
Also, crushed larnyx. Greek warriors and Medieval Knights used this sort of grappling all the time, and in close combat it was essential for their victories.
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And I know alot of people dislike how overpowered wrestling is, but I think nerfing it to the point of sheer worthlessness actually makes the game less realistic, my teacher's friend died from a bunch of kids beating him up. Unarmed fighting seems under-rated in your eyes, have any of you ever actually been punched? I tell you it hurts like hell and in the right spots it can do alot of damage if the guy is pretty damn strong.
When I was like 10 and one hell of a cranky (wonder if that's the right word) kid, I once punshed another kid in the chest (what is the name of that nerve node again?) full force. Mind you full force for a weakish 10 year old. It flattend him instandly. I was probably more shocked then everyone else.
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Haha I had this same problem with my last fortress that fell, strangely enough my wrestlers and axedwarves were pathetically weak (even when armed with iron armor and iron weapons), yet my captain of the guard using an Iron Spear metaphorically and literally raped everything, and he wasn't even wearing armor!
He could take on like 5-6 goblins with no issues, yet my Axedwarves in squads of 3 would get slaughtered, he wasn't that skilled with the spear, and wasn't superhumanly strong either.
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On the reverse argument, this isn't just frail bastards we're talking about, in cases like punching things huge in comparison to Dwarves I kinda get that it'd be almost useless...But even so. These guys know what they're doing, what with being the very best at what they do, as for inexperienced wrestlers taking on Elephants, no I don't expect the wrestlers to win, the Legends might get lucky however.
But the Elephant isn't a soldier with a copper shortsword going on a killing spree, it's kinda wrestling, it's doing unarmed combat and naturally has the upper hand due to size and strength, and naturally should beat the wrestler dwarves.
Against goblins which are incredibly frail, I can easily picture their bones being broken even in their armor. Same for many races ( Antmen and the like. )
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I would have thought antmen would be quite tough, wrapped in all that chitin.
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After watching an untained dwarf punch a forgotten beast to death in three hits, then go on a genocide spree against the polar bears in the area, I don't think unarmed combat is underpowered in any way. Strength just seems to rule all. With enough training (and anti-skill-decay editing), a wrestler can twist the limbs off a bronze colossus, they just need a lot more of it then any other class.
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You said it.
Dwarven crossbowmen are incredibly incompetent and weak when compared to goblin ones, even when trained.
They are a waste of dorftroops now.
Also they quickly die of thirst, even when carrying drinks, but can still find themselves a place to sleep when sleepy.
Why do they get thirsty so fast when in the military?
They hardly ever follow orders properly now, but still die of thirst when on duty. -- Why not get them to refuse orders and go get a drink too?
I don't understand why dorf AI shouldn't be a bit smarter for military dudes. Self preservation should be a priority. -- Share the drinks and food among the squad or something. or have them "can't follow order" "getting a drink" and resupply themselves when too thirsty or hungry.
Having to babysit stationed dorfs to not get thirsty while having them shoot arrows at goblins is annoying as hell as the process usually takes several seasons to kill a few goblins with arrows and dorfs tend to die of thirst before the simple and easy duckshoot task is completed.
I had a squad of 25 dorfs spend 1-2 seasons to shoot over 2500 bolts at some 20+ goblins with only a few casualties among the goblins. Admittedly the gobos were armed and equipped, but due to heavy thirst casualties i had to have them finished by axe squad.
All the squad were marksdwarves by the end of this "training" but they were still totally useless in the next siege. None of them could kill, or even stop, a single invader, though a couple of the invaders were bruised before storming the fort.
So I call for equality in goblin crossbowmen and dorf crossbowmen capabilities. And also in thirst-endurability. It is a shame that well equipped dwarves can't stand in one place longer, or equally long, to goblin invaders without shamelessly succumbing to thirst and dying of dehydration.
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You said it.
Dwarven crossbowmen are incredibly incompetent and weak when compared to goblin ones, even when trained.
They are a waste of dorftroops now.
Also they quickly die of thirst, even when carrying drinks, but can still find themselves a place to sleep when sleepy.
Why do they get thirsty so fast when in the military?
They hardly ever follow orders properly now, but still die of thirst when on duty. -- Why not get them to refuse orders and go get a drink too?
I don't understand why dorf AI shouldn't be a bit smarter for military dudes. Self preservation should be a priority. -- Share the drinks and food among the squad or something. or have them "can't follow order" "getting a drink" and resupply themselves when too thirsty or hungry.
Having to babysit stationed dorfs to not get thirsty while having them shoot arrows at goblins is annoying as hell as the process usually takes several seasons to kill a few goblins with arrows and dorfs tend to die of thirst before the simple and easy duckshoot task is completed.
I had a squad of 25 dorfs spend 1-2 seasons to shoot over 2500 bolts at some 20+ goblins with only a few casualties among the goblins. Admittedly the gobos were armed and equipped, but due to heavy thirst casualties i had to have them finished by axe squad.
All the squad were marksdwarves by the end of this "training" but they were still totally useless in the next siege. None of them could kill, or even stop, a single invader, though a couple of the invaders were bruised before storming the fort.
So I call for equality in goblin crossbowmen and dorf crossbowmen capabilities. And also in thirst-endurability. It is a shame that well equipped dwarves can't stand in one place longer, or equally long, to goblin invaders without shamelessly succumbing to thirst and dying of dehydration.
Crossbows are le fail in melee. I had 20 marksdwarves with wooden crossbows and full steel armour killed by a goblin lasher with a shattered hip, legs, and upper arms. Turns out whips hit with something like 12 times the force of a warhammer (the next-best weapon at busting up people in armour), so I can understand taking losses, but still, the gobbo's silk cape deflected all of the melee blows with the crossbows.
HOWEVER! I put some steel bolts on a well-trained marksdwarf, and the ease at which he slew enemies was appalling. Crossbows are no longer the super-effective, no-training-necessary defense for any fort, but in the right hands (and with steel or better bolts), they will still seriously mess stuff up. They go through armour very well and get outstanding penetration (had a bolt sever a gobbo's spine through the front of its chest and iron chain).
Don't dismiss them altogether.
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You would think 9 dwarves with at least a slightly military training and leather armor could finish a civilian before they died of thirst, which I now expect every second.
Yeah, dying of thirst is probably among the most common causes of death. I think the AI should be enabled to let the dorfs get a drink, considering how they go 100+ steps out of their way and stations to walk against orders to an ambush now. Annoying builtin stupidity and dying due to thirst even if drinks are nearby.... is very annoying. And not fun.
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I just updated from d40 and started a new fort with some cheap materials to make steel armor slash weapons thinking this would hold whatever goblins at bay for at least a season while I got established. By the time the first five raiders showed up, spears in hand, I had one dwarf in full steel plate with a steel mace and several others in half steel armor with cross-bows or axes. By the time they left, every single dwarf was dead and not one goblin was seriously injured.
I'd say that's a little under-powered, no matter how you look at it.
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wresling should be an easy way to train dwarves into using armor and give them an advantage above the guy that does not have a strong wrestling base imo
like its a fighting skill, but in battle it should be more something an axedwarf has extra then something a dwarf relies on to survive the battle
something like Krav Maga the israeli armymen get instructed, and while they still die from guns (lol) it gives them the clear advantage in close quarter combat
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One of the big issues is that stat and skill rusting occur VERY quickly. I don't have a lot of problems with my military because they train year round ALL the time, with zero breaks ever.
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I strongly feel that everything is related to skill decay. I had a Wrestler duo in 31.09 constantly sparring and occasionally going out to rip the heads off of goblins. They were in the upper tiers of strength (one was 'very strong', the other 'mighty') and were more than capable fighters, so as mentioned strength is definitely a major factor in wrestling effectiveness.
Then I had them stand on duty in the caverns for perhaps a season or two, which was totally uneventful and they didn't even see a single spider, and then they were both killed by a freakin' goat.
Right now Strength is tied to both damage dealing and muscle tissue thickness! I think it is decaying so rapidly and harshly that their tissue thickness disappears and that is what makes them so vulnerable to cutting and piercing weapons.
I don't think wrestling has changed at all, but instead our dwarves aren't retaining the massive strength and toughness garnered by the activity rate of training Wrestling. Now having a cap on attributes is likely a contributor as well.
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I haven't been able to get a decent military running in a while. Every update I check to see if there has been any military bug fixes, but so far no luck. I hope its fixed soon. :)
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I haven't been able to get a decent military running in a while. Every update I check to see if there has been any military bug fixes, but so far no luck. I hope its fixed soon. :)
The military works fine now, but the interface is still the same.
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I haven't been able to get a decent military running in a while. Every update I check to see if there has been any military bug fixes, but so far no luck. I hope its fixed soon. :)
The military works fine now, but the interface is still the same.
Hrm, my military never seems to gain much skills and gets slaughtered pretty often. And crossbowmen never seem to work quite right.
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I haven't been able to get a decent military running in a while. Every update I check to see if there has been any military bug fixes, but so far no luck. I hope its fixed soon. :)
The military works fine now, but the interface is still the same.
Hrm, my military never seems to gain much skills and gets slaughtered pretty often. And crossbowmen never seem to work quite right.
Oh yeah, crossbowmen are very buggy.
The military not gaining skill might not be a bug though :P ... that's what danger rooms are for.
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I made a squad of seven axedwarfs and used the "Danger Room" technique to get them all up to Legendary in Fighting, Dodge, Shield, Armor and Axe. Even though this can probably be considered an exploit (but seriously, the military system is pretty broken, you'll get sieged before you can even get your first proper squad up if you have the "train" normally They just stand around preparing for demonstration 80% of the time, 10% they actually train and the remaining 10% they are on break, anyways..) but I can tell you that these 7 dwarves in iron gear have successful obliterated two goblin sieges (probably around 10 gobbos each in total) without any outside help and not taking one single hit. They have done the same with a forgotten beast, slayed that bad boy in two seconds. Didn't even have time to zoom in on the fight. None of them even has a scratch.
So yeah the problem here is that either you do it the intended way and it wont work very well or you do it exploitive way and it becomes waaaay to effective. I'd wish there was some middle ground here.
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[0.31.01] Military forces are just to weak
« on: April 03, 2010, 10:04:07 am »
Let the topic die. Feel free to start a topic discussing weak military in the Dwarf Discussion thread. Or better yet search the boards and take their advice.
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I made a squad of seven axedwarfs and used the "Danger Room" technique to get them all up to Legendary in Fighting, Dodge, Shield, Armor and Axe. Even though this can probably be considered an exploit (but seriously, the military system is pretty broken, you'll get sieged before you can even get your first proper squad up if you have the "train" normally They just stand around preparing for demonstration 80% of the time, 10% they actually train and the remaining 10% they are on break, anyways..) but I can tell you that these 7 dwarves in iron gear have successful obliterated two goblin sieges (probably around 10 gobbos each in total) without any outside help and not taking one single hit. They have done the same with a forgotten beast, slayed that bad boy in two seconds. Didn't even have time to zoom in on the fight. None of them even has a scratch.
So yeah the problem here is that either you do it the intended way and it wont work very well or you do it exploitive way and it becomes waaaay to effective. I'd wish there was some middle ground here.
I fully armor and arm my dwarves, and they do quite fine. To have them spar, they need a squad leader who knows weapons to teach them. Before ambushes and sieges, my fully armed and armored green troops sit on their ass and do worthless demonstrations. When the ambushes and sieges hit and the soldiers who survive gain weapon skills, I see sparring happen all the time. If you want some more or less experienced troops at least by the first few ambushes or siege, then send them into the cavern (armored!) or outdoors to kill wildlife with training weapons. I usually do the former.
As for crossbowmen not training, keep in mind that the exp gained from training is inferior to the amount gained by shooting at live targets. Either sent them behind fortifications against siege forces to train them up (2 years of 3 sieges got my marksdwarves who had no skill all the way up to Adept, Expert, and even two Accomplished) or capture troops with cage traps (I understand how people don't like spamming cage traps. I don't either, so I limit myself to building only 5, indoors, and each of them at least three tiles apart) and let them be pin cushioned. This will only have a problem if you rely entirely on marksdwarves with no traps.
Anyway, sorry I kept posting at this thread. But I do feel the need to explain that the military is really working quite fine.