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Other Projects => Other Games => Topic started by: McTraveller on January 21, 2023, 01:22:42 pm

Title: FF XVI - impending checkbook doom
Post by: McTraveller on January 21, 2023, 01:22:42 pm
Somewhat surprised this is starting as a console exclusive.

Also surprised this seems to be aimed at mature audiences.

Also somewhat surprised that, for the first time in a long time, it feels like it may actually be decent?  I have not, to date, been a fan of how things have progressed after the Square-Enix merger.  I feel more interest in the characters just from the trailer than I had for any in (the disastrous) XIII (ugh) or XV - the two I still have never finished (and I even suffered to the end of VIII).

Damn trailers pulling nostalgia strings with an epic rendition of the original (yes, the actual original) theme music... that simple arpeggio...
Title: Re: FF XVI - impending crystal doom
Post by: Duuvian on January 21, 2023, 09:53:01 pm
I haven't played any of the FF games at length past 9. I agree with you on VIII, that one was grindy with the draw mechanic, though I liked the story and characters. I liked 9 more as a game, it felt more like 6 than either 7 or 8, though I liked the less cartoony art style in 8 more. I tried one I can't recall the number of on Xbox IIRC when I was living with room mates who had it, but was somewhat disappointed with it, perhaps unfairly, having come from the earlier iterations of front/back line setup instead of the running around in 3d; that one felt like single player Everquest sort of. My favorites in the series are 6, 5, and 7 in that order, with 8 and 9 right behind in unsure order as I liked different things about them. I also liked the Chrono Trigger game, never played the sequel; and oddly enough Mystic Quest was one of my favorites even though it was one of the most barebones; probably because I played a ton of it at a young age because it was one of the rentals available at a local movie rental store.

The console only release is kind of disappointing just as it is for any game that does that, though I probably wouldn't have bought it right off the bat (limited budget, not a hit at it's quality which I haven't assessed).

It's good to hear it might be a quality game.

I've heard some minor complaints about practices by Square in a business rather than creative sense so I left the FF series remakes off my wishlist on Steam when I cleaned that out the last time. They had been sitting there a long time anyhow. Something about C&D orders for using their art assets but then being caught with a Getty images copyright in some of their art in a game, I can't recall specifically.

The series has always had outstanding music, I still love the Veldt song from 6. If you feel like making your own version of the song, I'd guess many of the old songs are available in midi format somewhere. You can open such a midi file in the free trial version of FL Studio (just export the result before closing out the program, as the trial version can't save project files but can export a finished mp3/whatever format) and replace the midi instruments for other instruments, because the notes will remain the same after the midi instrument is replace by a different instrument. That was how I made some music for the LCS game using classical music midis; it was quite easy comparitive to making an original song. Most of the synthesizers have a list of presets to choose from so it's almost accessible to those who haven't the experience to know what knobs and sliders to wiggle around, in that if they can receive direction to that point of picking presets it's a simple swap out of instruments, takes only a few clicks per instrument.
Title: Re: FF XVI - impending crystal doom
Post by: Horizon on January 21, 2023, 10:23:15 pm
I know it'll draw ire to me but there are just way too many FF games. And I only feel any attachment to FF6 (technically 3 but weird title bullshit) I love the series but it's getting so long and convoluted it's got me wishing for the days when it was more fantasy and less steampunk.

Also, Chrono Trigger is by bar an underrated cult classic. Square has done some good but I would love if they would let the franchise see the light of day again.
Title: Re: FF XVI - impending crystal doom
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on January 21, 2023, 10:42:31 pm
I know it'll draw ire to me but there are just way too many FF games. And I only feel any attachment to FF6 (technically 3 but weird title bullshit) I love the series but it's getting so long and convoluted it's got me wishing for the days when it was more fantasy and less steampunk.

Also, Chrono Trigger is by bar an underrated cult classic. Square has done some good but I would love if they would let the franchise see the light of day again.
Given what they did to Lufia when it came back it's probably for the best they let it lie fallow.
Title: Re: FF XVI - impending crystal doom
Post by: Folly on January 22, 2023, 01:59:45 am
I actually enjoyed FF12, FF13, and FF15. Each game had shortcomings, but was fun overall.
Except the first part of FF13, that was garbage, and probably the single greatest disappointment I've ever experienced in video gaming. The second and third parts were redeeming though.

Console-only is a dealbreaker for me though, specifically in regards to Playstation. Between excessive censorship practices, asinine hardware choices, and losing all of their exclusive titles, I'm pretty sure I'll never own another Playstation console.

I'm sure FF16 will be on PC soon enough.
Title: Re: FF XVI - impending crystal doom
Post by: scriver on January 27, 2023, 03:43:29 am
I've been replaying my goto FF games, 7, 8, and 9, the past weeks. They were the games of my childhood, so they have a special and unfair advantage over later and earlier entries (but if course I never actually finished any of them), I want to acknowledge that.

But I tried the demo of 15 some time ago and I really disliked ut. In particular I don't enjoy how combat, and this seems to be a trend in modern jrpgs from other game demos I've played, is just a bunch of nonsensical chaos and flashing lights and running around and things happening!™. How does anyone play that and not be frustrated? It just exhausts me.

...Am I getting too old for this shit?
Title: Re: FF XVI - impending crystal doom
Post by: Folly on January 27, 2023, 03:22:00 pm
Naw, combat was definitely a shortcoming of FF15. Aside from janky combat movement, there's also unlimited consumable healing use which trivializes any enemy who doesn't 1-shot you. And strong incentive to constantly pause the game and switch weapons, which totally breaks the flow.
The story was another weak point; it started out strong, even having a solid prequel movie that led into the game. But towards the end it just turned into a generic princess rescue, because shallow evil guy found some random arcane bullshit that allowed him to make a bid for world domination.

The strength of FF15 was in the exploration and atmosphere. Driving down the highway, camping out, listening to commentary from my party, diving into elaborate dungeons full of puzzles, and fighting a wide variety of monsters...15 delivered a genuinely unique experience that I have not found in any other game.
Title: Re: FF XVI - impending crystal doom
Post by: McTraveller on January 27, 2023, 09:20:34 pm
There were several boss battles in FF XV that I still don’t even know what I did to get through them; it felt like random button smashing. I did like the exploration in XV.  But goodness the load times!
Title: Re: FF XVI - impending crystal doom
Post by: Frumple on January 28, 2023, 03:14:17 pm
Also, Chrono Trigger is by bar an underrated cult classic. Square has done some good but I would love if they would let the franchise see the light of day again.
From like a week ago, but... CT is pretty much the antithesis of an underrated cult classic. It's one of the most beloved classic JRPGs outright, there's nothing cult or underrated about it, it's just a highly regarded older game played by very literally millions. Chrono Cross didn't see the greatest reception, so there hasn't been much attention to the IP since, but Trigger's seen over 3 million sales over the last couple decades, ports to like a half dozen different systems... it's a pretty major name in gaming even without more attempts at the franchise.

Given what they did to Lufia when it came back it's probably for the best they let it lie fallow.
Eh... honestly, I liked the GBA one pretty well, and while I never touched the DS version, it seems liked well enough. They could have been better, but I wouldn't say Lufia was terribly tarnished by the attempts. For all squeenix's myriad issues, they mostly make pretty solid games at the end of the day, even when they fail to meet the standard of one previous attempt or another.
Title: Re: FF XVI - impending crystal doom
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on January 28, 2023, 05:46:35 pm
Given that Lufia's remake had a major sequel bait at the end with the true ending and it's laid follow for about 13 years since it's release. It may not have sold well enough for Squeenix's standards. Though I just wasn't a fan of it changing from an RPG to Action RPG and the weird redesigns from medieval to square enix's FF7's type aesthetics.
Title: Re: FF XVI - impending crystal doom
Post by: hector13 on January 28, 2023, 08:14:19 pm
I’ve only finished 9 and 15, though played through 7 ‘til you get the ship and then stopped for whatever reason, and with 10 I mostly played Blitzball, and could absolutely not stand Tidus as a character, the whining boy.

9 remains my favourite, 15 was… entertaining I guess? It finished rather abruptly, and the final boss fight felt like an interactive cutscene.

The thing I like about FF though is that at least tries to be different, though, which is to be applauded with all the cookie cutter AAA games/sequels/remakes out there.
Title: Re: FF XVI - impending crystal doom
Post by: Frumple on January 28, 2023, 10:15:17 pm
Though I just wasn't a fan of it changing from an RPG to Action RPG and the weird redesigns from medieval to square enix's FF7's type aesthetics.
That's fair, though it's probably worth noting Lufia always had a style that was FF7-ish in general theme in places, if admittedly with a less washed out aesthetic; like a weirdly large number of old JRPGs (Final Fantasy itself very much included), they had a pretty substantial magitech/sci-fi design in parts of them. Lufia's sinistral stuff totally had a technologically advanced vibe to some of it, Lufia II outright had submarines and the like, so on and so forth. For whatever reason, old RPGs in particular were pretty fond of including that kind of design at some point or another, usually as some kind of late game area. It's kinda' understandable how a remake would end up with similar vibes as FF7 in places.

Honestly, I hadn't even noticed the ARPG remake, though -- the last time I paid attention to the series people were kvetching about the GBA one, and it was... pretty alright, in my experience. Particularly enjoyed the expanded pokemon monster ally aspect.

... anyway, it'll be interesting to see how it goes with FF. 6 is... still my favorite, although I'm not sure if I'll ever play through it again just due to how kinda' depressing it is. So much is just really damn awesome, Mog is GMOAT, you suplex trains, etc., etc., but at the same time... FF6 was the first game that made me cry when I was a kiddo. Fucked up the one minigame you don't want to fuck up and might not realize what you need to do when you're a kid, and consequences ensued. Hell, just thinking of it kinda' hits harder nowadays... was a primary caretaker for my grandparents, and they both passed last year. FF6 be too damn real right now, which on one had is probably high praise in some sense, but on the other hand I don't want to play it, so...
Title: Re: FF XVI - impending crystal doom
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on January 29, 2023, 08:20:56 am
Though I just wasn't a fan of it changing from an RPG to Action RPG and the weird redesigns from medieval to square enix's FF7's type aesthetics.
That's fair, though it's probably worth noting Lufia always had a style that was FF7-ish in general theme in places, if admittedly with a less washed out aesthetic; like a weirdly large number of old JRPGs (Final Fantasy itself very much included), they had a pretty substantial magitech/sci-fi design in parts of them. Lufia's sinistral stuff totally had a technologically advanced vibe to some of it, Lufia II outright had submarines and the like, so on and so forth. For whatever reason, old RPGs in particular were pretty fond of including that kind of design at some point or another, usually as some kind of late game area. It's kinda' understandable how a remake would end up with similar vibes as FF7 in places.
Oh Lufia 2's tech was delightfullly schizophrenic.  You discovered the party member who has invented things like wrenchs and other modern day tools is currently working on a combustible engine that he has been working on for years.. That had already been invented in a kingdom nearby. And there's only one of it because you have to take the engine he made and that engine to power an airship. And that kingdom has bypassed any tech aside from creating that one engine, and created a tank with it, and yet that's the only major technology shown aside from the Sinestral's Magitek powered Fortress of Doom island.

But as for the new FF.. I don't have any hopes for it, so hopefully it'll surprise me. The last few mainline FF aside from 14 have not been that good (and 14 was a disaster at launch that it almost died as soon as it came out).
Title: Re: FF XVI - impending crystal doom
Post by: Chiefwaffles on January 29, 2023, 05:46:19 pm
Sure, but the person responsible for FFXIV's redemption and continued success post-launch is the same person in charge of 16.
Title: Re: FF XVI - impending crystal doom
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on January 30, 2023, 06:17:51 pm
Here's hoping he can bring that magic to FFXVI. 
Title: Re: FF XVI - impending crystal doom
Post by: The_Explorer on January 31, 2023, 12:17:55 am
I played this for a while, though its not a console exclusive. Can play it on PC too. Its pretty fun, I like being able to switch to any class I want on the same character. Definitely yeah wouldn't let kids play, the ERP scene is HUGE and I'd say most people probably run around with nude mods. I saw how many were downloaded, and its over 300k combined for just the nude various body mods. The most popular had 100k+ unique each downloads on one site, who knows how many more on others. They could probably ban all those people using them, but considering how many use them, one would see a very empty game. The only one I got is the pvp action combo thing, cause the hotbar had way too many abilities filled up for my liking and my hands don't have arthritis I dont think, but it sure made my hands hurt.

I didn't stick with it past my free month though. I like the story even early on, just wasn't a personal fan of the gameplay in general. And I doubt the gameplay gets better in further expansions. Dunno, but most MMOs I don't like anyway...I've tried many and only like LOTRO (sorta this ones a bit iffy for me to add), Asheron's call, WoW still I enjoy (except shadowlands)...thats it really. I kinda like Black desert, everquest and EVE, but heh dont play them long and EQ kinda too archaic for me even if I play super old games like morrowind still.
Title: Re: FF XVI - impending crystal doom
Post by: Empty on January 31, 2023, 05:30:03 am
What is the person above me talking about?

Is it a bot?
Title: Re: FF XVI - impending crystal doom
Post by: The_Explorer on January 31, 2023, 09:05:22 am
What is the person above me talking about?

Is it a bot?

no lol. I was half asleep and took pain meds last night. read the title briefly, looked through opening post (quickly) and read this as "FFXIV" which is the MMO xD so I thought this was talking about FFXIV. The lettering is almost the same too in this game title, only the I and V are switched :(
Title: Re: FF XVI - impending crystal doom
Post by: Iduno on January 31, 2023, 12:09:26 pm
Also, Chrono Trigger is by bar an underrated cult classic. Square has done some good but I would love if they would let the franchise see the light of day again.

Square has, and Enix has, but Square-Enix has done nothing good. To be fair, they were both already falling in quality by the time they merged.
Title: Re: FF XVI - impending crystal doom
Post by: McTraveller on June 05, 2023, 11:44:15 am
Just a few weeks away. Still looks interesting. The Square Enix folks, if nothing else, know how to make trailers and other media material. Helps they have ridiculously good scoring.

Also apparently it's only PS5 exclusive for 6 months; after that it should be on PC and whatever the latest impossible-to-remember XBox name is.
Title: Re: FF XVI - impending crystal doom
Post by: Horizon on June 05, 2023, 09:05:28 pm
Also, Chrono Trigger is by bar an underrated cult classic. Square has done some good but I would love if they would let the franchise see the light of day again.

Square has, and Enix has, but Square-Enix has done nothing good. To be fair, they were both already falling in quality by the time they merged.
A fair point.
Title: Re: FF XVI - impending crystal doom
Post by: McTraveller on June 13, 2023, 11:00:04 am
I just finished the Demo of FFXVI.  What a smart move by Square Enix - I do not normally pre-order games, but <shut up and take my money meme here>.

I mean, even though the demo didn't really show anything that wasn't already in the trailers... holy cow.

Aside from the technical feats - astonishing visuals, music, wow.

All I can say is - I have never, ever seen a game (or many other media types to be honest) build so much decent emotional involvement so quickly and robustly.  And this is even knowing what to expect from the trailers - I was surprised at how much the emotion hit me, even expecting it! I mean it's like their team actually pays attention to how to write dialog and build story - you get the story without exposition dumps, and what exposition there is feels like it's part of the natural speech patterns, not just "oh here's an excuse to exposition dump."

Gameplay is also good so far. I mean I'm not an action-RPG expert, but this feels way better and, despite the crazy flashiness for which these types of games are known, the combat feels much more sensible than earlier FF attempts.  I recall many instances in FFXV where I was just mashing buttons and didn't really understand what was happening1.  So far in this one, there's a lot of combo, but it feels more grounded, rather than just noise.

They also address a lot of interesting things that I believe other games will adopt en masse now - for example something as simple as you no longer have to press a button to pick up world loot, just get close. I know FFXVI isn't the first to do this but - it's polished here.  One interesting observation is a surprisingly small inventory limit for consumables...should make for an interesting aspect not previously seen in FFs.

Spoiler: True Spoiler? (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: 1 (click to show/hide)

EDIT: wow much incoherency repaired!
Title: Re: FF XVI - impending checkbook doom
Post by: McTraveller on June 27, 2023, 07:51:18 am
Anyone else playing this!?

So much to discuss...  I've never seen a game with a story like this.
Title: Re: FF XVI - impending checkbook doom
Post by: Folly on June 27, 2023, 03:23:03 pm
Game is getting rave reviews over the story and combat...but I just can't get over the ugly character designs. Sure the giant spirit monsters have lots of fancy CGI, but then actual Cast are just a bunch of bland generic boys wearing bland generic clothes. By far the least interesting looking characters I can recall seeing in any FF game, and I just can't get excited for that.
Title: Re: FF XVI - impending checkbook doom
Post by: scriver on June 28, 2023, 05:08:20 am
I can't play it because I don't own the console, but I'm very untrusted in hearing what you have to say about it
Title: Re: FF XVI - impending checkbook doom
Post by: McTraveller on June 28, 2023, 12:37:41 pm
As for "a bunch of bland generic boys" - are you sure you aren't thinking of FF XV, which is literally 4 guys all wearing matching black leather outfits?  ;D

It's interesting reading reviews - they are very polarized. I think it's because people can't accept that a game may not be designed to what they wanted, but has other goals. It's a tough mismatch, and I don't envy the game producers and directors there - you can't be all things to all people.

Trying to not spoiler... especially if others haven't been playing...

High points:
I have more emotional attachment to characters in this game that I've ever had in a game, so quickly.  Even though the story is predictable in parts (I'm not quite halfway through? The joys of being an adult with young kids and other responsibilities - I can't play for more than maybe 1-2 hours an evening, if that evening is even free in the first place), it makes you feel for the plight of the world.

The story is about crystals and their impact on the world - another Final Fantasy staple.

Tech wise - the world is beautiful. I've heard people complaining about frame rates. Young people, I swear  ;D  I've heard complaints about the skybox looking low-res. Have people not seen fluffy clouds? They look blurry like that - maybe Valisthea has a climate that just always has those fluffy clouds?  I feel like we're in blessed times, what we can do with tech.

They finally made summons playable - it's really fantastic and epic. Supposedly they took some cues from Evangelion, and it shows.  Like most Final Fantasy games, the magic effects are ridiculous.

I also like the fact that they still avoid other JRPG tendencies like characters constantly talking during battles (Tales of Arise and Star Ocean, I'm looking at you - seriously the constant play-by-play during combat is a bit much).

I think it's exploring some pretty timely topics - environmentalism, weapons of mass destruction and the general awfulness of war, how people treat "others1", and the like.  I wouldn't say the story is any darker than any other FF (FFVI and VII have some serious dark tones), but they just "show everything" instead of hinting at it or making it cartoony.

Downsides: I am really bad at dodging.  I don't use the QoL accessories, and to me the game is challenging - moreso than any other FF.

There's still a bit of a tech glitch with field-of-view; sometimes the engine can't figure out foreground from background, so a bit of background is not blurred around the edges - most notably this seems to be around weapons, which are the one variable graphics piece of equipment in the game.

I do agree that the matching of facial motion to voice is sub-par, compared to other games I've seen.  I can't quite tell why... Horizon seemed to do way better, and even Witcher III didn't seem so odd.  Maybe it's a stylistic choice, maybe cultural with the animation team?

I think overall people just have an unhealthy attraction to controversy. To me it's a great experience. I keep wanting to play more to find out what happens to the characters, I love just staring at the landscapes and scenery and listening to the great music, trying to figure out the motivation of the Big Bad. And get my dodge timing down, dangit!

I don't think this game needs sixteen configurable equipment slots, or having to micromanage enemy weak/strong elemental matrices, or the like2. Complexity doesn't equal depth... the configurability in XVI is in the freeform combat, not in equipment, and I guess some people don't vibe with that.

Spoiler: 1 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: 2 (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: FF XVI - impending checkbook doom
Post by: LuuBluum on June 28, 2023, 12:51:41 pm
It's my understanding that the facial capture is matched to the voiced dialogue in English, which was also recorded first.
Title: Re: FF XVI - impending checkbook doom
Post by: McTraveller on June 28, 2023, 01:05:07 pm
It is, and I watch in English.  Some characters' animations are just bad. Clive's is middling - sometimes good, sometimes bad. Cid's is... disturbing. Oddly enough Jill's is pretty consistently good.  Many of the random NPCs... I'd rather just have them have "puppet lips" it would be less strange.
Title: Re: FF XVI - impending checkbook doom
Post by: Dostoevsky on June 28, 2023, 01:21:25 pm
Anyone else playing this!?

So much to discuss...  I've never seen a game with a story like this.

Waiting for the PC version, pretty much.
Title: Re: FF XVI - impending checkbook doom
Post by: McTraveller on July 05, 2023, 09:00:55 am
As I progress slowly (about 60% complete due to not having copious amounts of free time) through the game I occasionally read forums with responses to the game.

Some interesting observations, not related to FFXVI specifically, though prompted by it:

The game is pretty polarizing on what constitutes "RPG elements" and "are the side quests and exploration good or bad?"  The RPG elements discussion seems muddy, but the common theme I've seen with the side quests and exploration is less so: that those that don't like it say "the quests and exploration are dumb, the rewards aren't worth it."

To that I say - shouldn't the exploration itself, or the world-building, be the reward, not getting some stat-boosting item or tons of gil or whatever?  Is the current generation of gamers so split between those that want to get a dopamine hit and those that enjoy just seeing new things?  That is - if you are exploring just to get a treasure... what's the point?

I'm not a game designer, to be sure, but I find the exploration and landscapes in this game to be quite compelling - a varied enough collection landscapes and biomes; some of the best coastal areas I've ever seen in a game specifically (Seems more realistic than Forbidden West to me... I think it is the color saturation choice? I know FFXVI gets panned for being unsaturated, but it works for me). Just standing on a cliff overlooking an ocean.  And wow has tech improved to make seas look way better.  Only thing missing really is good sound of the surf (Hrm. I'll have to turn down BGM and see if it's there and I just missed it...)

Also the endless discussions about skin-color diversity - I realized that there's this oddity that seems to say that the cultures in a fictitious game world should match our own - why would we expect there to be the same cultures and skin tones there as here?  Funny thing is there is diversity in the FFXVI world culturally and economically. Why is "range of skin pigment" the sticking point?  There's even notable diversity in sexual expression, without beating it over your head.

I guess people just like to complain...

For me, though, it's a grand experience.

I do have to say though, whoever was in charge of this one area - gotta fix those couple textures with z-fighting :)