Bay 12 Games Forum
Other Projects => Curses => Topic started by: Mood on September 19, 2013, 05:11:35 pm
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I've been using high-persuasion/high-music squads to convert and recruit Agents for a combat squad I'd like to build. This results in extremely high heart for the agents, but their wisdom is usually only a few points lower. Is it possible to somehow get them to shed this conservative fallacy and embrace liberal sanity and justice?
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Only I know of to get rid of Wisdom is to beat it out of people in a Re-Education. Sorry. :-(
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Yes, the only technique for lowering Wisdom (at least currently) is to interrogate someone and beat it out of them using violence. Instead of playing Music to raise the Heart of the Agents and turn them Liberal (which doesn't reduce their Wisdom at all), you could ask them out on dates, then kidnap and interrogate them, and beat the Wisdom out of them. Of course I have usually found that people I successfully interrogate usually end up with quite low Heart, much lower than if I converted them to the Liberal Cause by playing a Guitar at them. Plus they still have some Wisdom, too, usually.
Anyway, what you are currently doing, turning them Liberal by playing your Guitar, is a very good technique and results in them having higher stats than if you interrogated them. This allows their skills (specifically Art and Music) to reach higher levels. Yes, they may have higher Wisdom than if you interrogated them, but they have higher Heart too, and so that particular trade-off is worth it. Just avoid having them do anything to increase their Wisdom even higher and you should be fine. Their Wisdom probably won't be a problem if they're a combat squad, unless you encounter Conservatives that use special argument-based attacks, such as Radio Personalities, Cable News Anchors, Hangin' Judges, Police Negotiators, etc. But if you have good enough weapons (read: guns) and high enough weapons skills, you should be able to kill anyone who uses a special argument-based attack before they can give you even more Wisdom. My weapon of choice for combat squads is, of course, the AA-12 Auto Shotgun. And the armor for them? Heavy Body Armor, of course.
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What if you beat them until their Heart and Wisdom both dropped to 1 and then played music to bring just their Heart back up? Assuming that one is taking plenty of time for conversion and isn't worried about the authorities being aware of the kidnapping.
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I don't think you can play guitar at people you're Re-Educating. Having someone with good Psychology, Charisma, and probably Seduction (offsets previous negative things such as beatings) talk with the Student will raise Heart if successful.
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You could probably guitar them, then when they start feeling doubts, kidnap them and enlighten them with a higher starting HRT.
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As an alternative, one I rather like, just go and get them shot in the face, and hope they survive, I think I read somewhere that, that will reduce wisdom and intelligence.
"Wanna be a better liberal? Go get shot in the fuckin' face."
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"Wanna be a better liberal? Go get shot in the fuckin' face."
sounds about right also sigged
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Hello,
I've also problems with my Charm squad (Prostitutes secuding peoples to make them sleepers) raking Wisdom 3-4 points lower than their Heart after attempting to seduce several Police Officers.
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'Tis best to kidnap the Police Officers at gunpoint once you are out on a date with them. If you manage to get them back to the safehouse without them arresting you or escaping, well then they aren't THAT tough to interrogate. Then you can just BEAT the Conservatism out of them, and then talk to them after their Wisdom is low enough for them to listen to Liberal Reason, and soon you'll have Police Officer Sleepers without running the risk of raising your Wisdom.
I basically just use Seduction to trick Conservatives into going out on dates so I can kidnap and interrogate them. I never actually do the whole dating thing. And to get Liberals to join, I always use Persuasion and talking about the issues. That's just my particular playing style. It's worked well over multiple different versions of the game, so it's a pretty good strategy, at least for me.
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'Tis best to kidnap the Police Officers at gunpoint once you are out on a date with them. If you manage to get them back to the safehouse without them arresting you or escaping, well then they aren't THAT tough to interrogate. Then you can just BEAT the Conservatism out of them, and then talk to them after their Wisdom is low enough for them to listen to Liberal Reason, and soon you'll have Police Officer Sleepers without running the risk of raising your Wisdom.
I basically just use Seduction to trick Conservatives into going out on dates so I can kidnap and interrogate them. I never actually do the whole dating thing. And to get Liberals to join, I always use Persuasion and talking about the issues. That's just my particular playing style. It's worked well over multiple different versions of the game, so it's a pretty good strategy, at least for me.
So, better to just datenap Conservatives and seducie important Liberals? The only problem is that
- they can't expend their network (not really an issue);
- in the beginning of a game, a player hasn't always the needed infrastructure (Front Businesses, skills and al.) to safely (ie. without the kidnapping being discovered before the Enlightenment or the captive escaping/kiling himself) hold hostages.
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Training psychology and having a large amount of people to beat the crap out of someone usually works well enough.
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Y'know I've never actually tried having more than one person interrogate at a time...I should do this
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It works amazingly well. Have your Liberals beat the living crap out of the automaton, then let in the trump card. The Most Interesting Man on Earth walks in, and enters the hellhole of the life of the automaton. The beacons of light enlighten the Automaton in an instant of the Liberal truth.
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It works amazingly well. Have your Liberals beat the living crap out of the automaton, then let in the trump card. The Most Interesting Man on Earth walks in, and enters the hellhole of the life of the automaton. The beacons of light enlighten the Automaton in an instant of the Liberal truth.
This is the method I use when the LCS is more avanced ie. money and several members and sleepers: I just create a squad who beat up and drug the automaton and, then, I bring a high Psychology Liberal to convert him.
The failures (ie. discovery of the kidnapping) get usually integrated in the squad.
Or I can just beat up the failures and then dump the corpses.
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A six person squad all wearing DeathSquad uniforms (which doesn't require as much Tailoring as you'd think) can, with experience, kidnap, clobber, and convert pretty much anyone before they're discovered missing. And those uniforms will get you into almost anywhere, too - or at least the lobby, which is all you really need. Eventually that Bank Manager, Eminent Scientist, Hangin' Judge, etc will step out for a smoke break or something and wander into your little 'safe zone' for easy kidnapping.
I've run entire operations based on only two squads:
First squad I just go out and recruit half a dozen Hippies (all Heart) and turn them into a troupe of street musicians (Guitars, Togas) to fund my operations. I'll base them out of a Homeless Shelter or something because they're never going to get any kind of criminal record or raise heat, so Secrecy is meaningless to them. That funds my operation.
From there I max my tailoring and make six DeathSquad uniforms and then stick the the University until I can get my Psychology to 6+. Then go and kidnap a random conservative yahoo. Then I recruit them. This takes a while, and they end up wanted for rehabilitation, but that's ok. Now I have two active squad members. Repeat until I have six. And by the time I have six guys with basic pistols and DeathSquad uniforms all I do is go to random places, kidnap people, convert them in an average of four days, and flood the world with and endless stream of sleeper agents.
If too many sleepers get caught and booted I'll lump them into a third squad and, oh I dunno, turn them all into people Writing to Newspapers or something that doesn't generate too much heat.
Anyway, point being, there won't be anyone anywhere on my force that has a Wisdom higher than one. So remember:
Multiple people clobbering a conservative works wonders. Everyone involved gains Psychology and everyone's Psychology gets pooled (sort of) into the conversion attempt. DeathSquad uniforms are awesome, you can easily make them yourself, and wearing them gives you a HUGE bonus to your interrogation efforts. You can do the "good cop, bad cop" thing and switch people around during interrogation, but honestly once you've got six people thus equipped and each with 6+ Psychology you won't have to. Two days of beatings is enough to flatten even a 10 Wisdom character, and after that you just convert them like normal. You'll never even need to use restraints.