I'm in.So, about your lack of interesting traits... :P
InI'm sorry. I don't accept players that haven't played a Beginner's Mafia. If you'd like to play a Beginner's Mafia first, I could invite you to the next game.
InI'm sorry. I don't accept players that haven't played a Beginner's Mafia. If you'd like to play a Beginner's Mafia first, I could invite you to the next game.
Oh... :(InI'm sorry. I don't accept players that haven't played a Beginner's Mafia. If you'd like to play a Beginner's Mafia first, I could invite you to the next game.
Would other games on this forum count?
Knock knock. Been a while since I played. Been a while since I've been on the forums!Good to see you back.
Good to see you back.
You have prior games that I can look at. You have posts and I can at least count on that. Plus, you've played a game of Mafia, I assume.Oh... :(InI'm sorry. I don't accept players that haven't played a Beginner's Mafia. If you'd like to play a Beginner's Mafia first, I could invite you to the next game.
Would other games on this forum count?
Well i never played a BM here but i just finish Jack Byor so i guess that is ok?Jack's BYOR counts enough.
Knock knock. Been a while since I played. Been a while since I've been on the forums!
Whoah. Welcome back!
Great, too late to in. :-[You know, if you don't send your role, you can't get in, Tiruin.
My amount of hype depends on what webadict cooked up for my role.This.
My amount of hype depends on what webadict cooked up for my role.http://www.levelupstudios.com/shyguys
notquitehypedI sniggered.
HypeK.I prefer HypyK and Hypus13 myself.
Hype13.
Those do seem better, but less hype, so...?HypeK.I prefer HypyK and Hypus13 myself.
Hype13.
My amount of hype depends on what webadict cooked up for my role.Your role was nerfed into the ground. I had to remove the laser eyes and the flying dinosaur bodyguards.
If you'd still have space, i'd get In S'been a loooong time, tho.
Edit:god damn. Ill replace if it come to it.
Ultracompromise: Set TolyK/MBP's role submission to The Role Inherited From Hapah's Departure.This.
Compromise: let TolyK send in any role they like, so long as its identical to Hapah's role.
Guys, you can't just list the same compromise. Come on.Ultracompromise: Set TolyK/MBP's role submission to The Role Inherited From Hapah's Departure.This.
Wish I had the time. I wonder what my role would have been?I'll post it post-game.
You're all a bunch of hype-o-chondriacs.
Day 1 is going to be hilarious.I've got my money on Day 3 being the hilarious one.
Yeah, I'll put that table back."pssst. He's gonna flip it again at some point in this thread"
┬─┬ ノ( ゜-゜ノ)
I may be able to PFP, but it sounds like I'll be absent for Day 1, Night 1, and some of Day 2, maybe even some Night 2. Apologies.You can try, but good luck making sense of 16 other people talking.
Hey, don't worry about roles being late webadict, we're all excited to play and can be as patient as need be.
I have my role as well. In fact, I got my role the second Wuba said he was sending him. Therefore he loves me more than all of you combined. Go ahead, prove that he doesn't.I got my role before he posted he was sending them >_>
NERJIIIIN! YOU'RE BACK TOO!
You weren't first. I was sending them before I was saying I was sending them.I have my role as well. In fact, I got my role the second Wuba said he was sending him. Therefore he loves me more than all of you combined. Go ahead, prove that he doesn't.I got my role before he posted he was sending them >_>
IT IS SAW.Did you just...
4maskwolf
It's 5am and I'm remembering horror stuffs >_>
Also I'm a miller. Woo first game as a miller! \o/
. . .
Oh dear 17 people.
And most are returned players ;_;
...Argh I can't think. Questionnaire later on. Sorry.
First time for this too <_<
Wuba is awesome. I love my role.Same here. Also, be less obvious when breadcrumbing.
Tiruin: Instant miller claim. Why claim so early in the game, Tiruin?Scripten: Why you bandwagoning on Tiruin?
4maskwolf: Who are you looking forward to butting heads with in this game?I don't like butting heads with anyone. Everyone is my friend.
4maskwolf: You're playing a creepy role, aren't you? Betcha mine is creepier.nope. You're wrong about my role.
Tiruin: Instant miller claim. Why claim so early in the game, Tiruin?Scripten: Why you bandwagoning on Tiruin?
What happened to the other three guests? O_oOne of them died, and the other two RVSP'd late.
4maskwolf: You're playing a creepy role, aren't you? Betcha mine is creepier.nope. You're wrong about my role.
Your's would be, naturally. It's hard to get any less creepy than my role.
Scripten: Why the role question right off of the bat?
Oh no, I can be far more creepy if I'm actually trying to be creepy.4maskwolf: You're playing a creepy role, aren't you? Betcha mine is creepier.nope. You're wrong about my role.
Your's would be, naturally. It's hard to get any less creepy than my role.
Scripten: Why the role question right off of the bat?
Wow, you posted that in the single second between me posting and loading this page.
Banter. I thought you were trying to (heh) role play something creepy.
Tiruin: Why are you using that damn tiny text? Are you trying to hide something? Obviously you must be fake-miller-claiming scum then.O_o
Tiruin: Instant miller claim. Why claim so early in the game, Tiruin?It's more of a null claim, actually.
Tiruin: Who do you feel you can reliably tell whether or not they're scum?Not at instantgamestart :P
It's...not even an hour into the game.Tiruin: Instant miller claim. Why claim so early in the game, Tiruin?Scripten: Why you bandwagoning on Tiruin?
Persus, why aren't you bandwagoning Tiruin?._.
Tiruin is your millerdom thematically appropriate to your role?
Nerjin: How do BYORs differ compared to regular Mafia?
Wuba is awesome. I love my role.
Oh, the game has started.
Hi everyone. My name is 4maskwolf. It's time to play a game. I like to play. Do you like to play.
Also I'm a miller. Woo first game as a miller! \o/
PPE: ScrippyTiruin: Instant miller claim. Why claim so early in the game, Tiruin?It's more of a null claim, actually.
Here in B12, I've been amongst the discussions of a 'mandatory D1 miller claim' usage and have more on been leaning that it was a neutral tell than any kind of town idea given that such incorporates either diverse planning, suspicion and psychological aspects of the player, or the consistency of the role, the dayplay and the interactions between players. I'm doing this merely to poke at an aspect of my role.
Thinking along the idea the instance of this is for investigators: I'm either town miller or scum playing miller; neutral in the aspect of having the interpretation of it to...everyone else, actually. Doesn't matter much until value is placed on it however I give it as a note for advance--given the associative value of being a miller, it will be up to those who deem my attitude connected to whatever-may-be-important-to-them as an important note.
Meaning: How you interpret this is mostly based on how you...interpret it. I'm pointing more on others' interpretations here.
Imp, Cheetar, & Shakerag: I haven't played or seen a game of mafia in which you've taken part, but you seem to be a regular around these parts. What's your strong suite; day or night game?Why don't you go back and read games that I've been in and formulate your own opinion, then?
Also, all this role playing is quite fun. I hadn't been in a BYOR until now, so it's a nice change.Role playing?
Shakerag: Do you think the order roles were sent out and alignments correlate? Will we be switching voting methods like in a previous BYOR or did WUBA heavily nerf your role?I think webadict has been doing this long enough and is crafty enough to not send out role PMs grouped by alignment. Granted, I could be wrong, but that seems like something he would have thought of. I have no idea whether or not we will be switching voting methods this game. I'm thinking likely not as I don't recall a lot of recycled gimmicks among webadict games, but then my memory is poor and not to be trusted. I also don't know why you'd think that webadict would "heavily nerf" my role, as that doesn't make any sense to me.Tiruin: Instant miller claim. Why claim so early in the game, Tiruin?Scripten: Why you bandwagoning on Tiruin?
Shakerag: Is there a specific power you hope to see in this game? A specific mechanic that you hope someone has? If so, what?I don't think I've ever been in a game with a jester, so I suppose that would be fairly interesting to see. Otherwise ... I'd say that I'm just expecting webadict to throw out something novel as he typically does in BYORs.
Yes, I know. And I seethe every time I see it. Note that I didn't say 'read it', because I can't.Tiruin: Why are you using that damn tiny text? Are you trying to hide something? Obviously you must be fake-miller-claiming scum then.Also I do it everywhere on the forum.
I'm prone to expounding in verbosity when asked questions that can be answered one way or the other :/Also I'm a miller. Woo first game as a miller! \o/
Dear Tiruin. Dear, Dear Tiruin. I'm afraid I can't quite believe that just yet. If I may ask, what exactly your role states in regards to this development? If you can be as specific as possible I promise you a full pardon for any and all transgressions. However, for now, I am forced to regard you as suspect. Though you seem to be quite guilt free at the moment.
PPE: ScrippyIn orange being the essence--or the essential idea of it.Tiruin: Instant miller claim. Why claim so early in the game, Tiruin?It's more of a null claim, actually.
Here in B12, I've been amongst the discussions of a 'mandatory D1 miller claim' usage and have more on been leaning that it was a neutral tell than any kind of town idea given that such incorporates either diverse planning, suspicion and psychological aspects of the player, or the consistency of the role, the dayplay and the interactions between players. I'm doing this merely to poke at an aspect of my role.
Thinking along the idea the instance of this is for investigators: I'm either town miller or scum playing miller; neutral in the aspect of having the interpretation of it to...everyone else, actually. Doesn't matter much until value is placed on it however I give it as a note for advance--given the associative value of being a miller, it will be up to those who deem my attitude connected to whatever-may-be-important-to-them as an important note.
Meaning: How you interpret this is mostly based on how you...interpret it. I'm pointing more on others' interpretations here.
PPE NQTPersus, why aren't you bandwagoning Tiruin?._.
Tiruin is your millerdom thematically appropriate to your role?
*flips open dictionary*
I can't think on the meaning of thematically despite knowing it! D:
> Grammar.
Err...no? Yes? O_o
I'm guessing my millerdom is pretty much related...in a way? to my role. Because I made it go more along metaphysics. Thought being the theme. T'would've been nice if I picked B12 Forum Mafia Board as my role, but this is an example of the metaphysics of it.
...The essence, I guess? That seems more appropriate.
I believe the millerdom-ship being related to the...essence of my role when thought about...in a way.
>_<
Maybe. It depends.
How is grammar related to being a miller? I'm confused and tried to answer it in the best way possible. Gray morality? Erh?
Tiruin, I've played games without declaring Miller d1 (Jack's byor is an example) if I believe there could be others....All games I've played in, the miller claims ~d1 ish.
Hello everyone. Don't feel like asking questions since I need to sleep.
TiruinOh.
"Thematically appropriate" means, "fitting with the theme". And 'theme' here means 'collection of related ideas that make up your role'. So miller would be fitting with the role 'Undercover Cop', because an Undercover Cop is a member of the town but would look like a criminal, but it might not fit with Fluffy Bunny, as there's nothing inherently suspicious about bunnies. So you're saying 'miller' is appropriate to your role? So your saying that the role you chose is someone that presents as a bad guy. Is that right?
Tiruin:Oh dear :s Sorry Shakerag.Yes, I know. And I seethe every time I see it. Note that I didn't say 'read it', because I can't.Tiruin: Why are you using that damn tiny text? Are you trying to hide something? Obviously you must be fake-miller-claiming scum then.Also I do it everywhere on the forum.
Oh no, I can be far more creepy if I'm actually trying to be creepy.That's terrifying.
Silthuri were you disappointed by your alignment?Nope. I like playing as all alignments. I've only been third party once where I replaced in to die, and even that was kinda fun. The only way I could be disappointed is if I somehow managed to be a vanilla townie in this.
Webadict: What is a semi-hammer?There is a set deadline, but if there has been a majority, they are lynched. By the way, 9 to Hammer. I forgot to add that part.
I think webadict has been doing this long enough and is crafty enough to not send out role PMs grouped by alignment. Granted, I could be wrong, but that seems like something he would have thought of. I have no idea whether or not we will be switching voting methods this game. I'm thinking likely not as I don't recall a lot of recycled gimmicks among webadict games, but then my memory is poor and not to be trusted. I also don't know why you'd think that webadict would "heavily nerf" my role, as that doesn't make any sense to me.My roles were sent in the order that I had labeled them finished. The alignment order is therefore mixed fairly well.
*4maskwolf does a pitiful puppy face*Oh no, I can be far more creepy if I'm actually trying to be creepy.That's terrifying.
Hello America. Let's have a talk.*4maskwolf cocks his head to the side at the barrage of words, then returns to eating food*
There are those who doubt whether or not I am capable as president. They wonder amongst themselves "Can our president post as he pleases?"
Well, America, I am sad to say that not all Presidents are given the freedom of speech that the rest of the country so enjoys. I, however, am not one of these weak presidents. I can say what I want, whenever I want. Do bear in mind, that I do this not for myself. But for you dear America. To answer your questions: No, there is no restriction on what your dear President can say.
That's all for now America. One Country. One heart. One soul. One America.
*cocks head to one side and listens attentively*Webadict: What is a semi-hammer?There is a set deadline, but if there has been a majority, they are lynched. By the way, 9 to Hammer. I forgot to add that part.I think webadict has been doing this long enough and is crafty enough to not send out role PMs grouped by alignment. Granted, I could be wrong, but that seems like something he would have thought of. I have no idea whether or not we will be switching voting methods this game. I'm thinking likely not as I don't recall a lot of recycled gimmicks among webadict games, but then my memory is poor and not to be trusted. I also don't know why you'd think that webadict would "heavily nerf" my role, as that doesn't make any sense to me.My roles were sent in the order that I had labeled them finished. The alignment order is therefore mixed fairly well.
Idea: Lynching Tiruin is currently the best thing we can do right now- if she's miller, we save the trouble of investigator worrying about her. If she's scum, we killed a scum.Why would an investigator worry about me at all? And the best thing 'we' can do right now? Huh. Interesting thought process.
4maskwolf, the emotes aren't a posting restriction are they?*tilts head to side*
Why would an investigator worry about me at all? And the best thing 'we' can do right now? Huh. Interesting thought process.
flabort: If you were offered the choice, pre-game, of being a guaranteed arsonist or just taking a random role, what would you do?Hi, I'm flabort, I don't think I've actually met you before outside discussion leading up to this specific game. If I recall, you're the person responsible for those very special roles that Webadict grumps about?
Not really, 4mask, but I think it's pretty funny if that's what Webadict is making you do.Tiruin Let's say you're not a miller, but a jester. Would you still have claimed miller? What would you be doing different if you were a miller or a jester?Heck no. Even if my goal is to die, I won't lie about something that has no connection to me at all or would prove any benefit to me in anyway.
I'd be aiming to live to Day 2 then probably scum it up, however my goal would be to proving a tangle to the weave of interactions so that I would in the very least aid scumhunting. Because in all cases that I'm not Mafia, I'm pro-Town. Yeah, even as a SK :V
If I was a miller I'd...claim right away that I'm a miller more on because of the many implications carried with it. Most of which I believe is better inferred than said, given the base suspicion it entails. The powers of presumption are also strong in miller claims, so if I was a miller I'd at least play best to who I am in principle as a player--doing it honestly or doing an outright lie. The threat is little and apparent if I can't be consistent.
If I was a jester (given that jesters win upon lynch)...I'd very well scumhunt beforehand, then suitably--if properly done--attract scum, and then get scum to try to catch me via subtle manipulation [generalizing here], then I'd concede to my lynch via flailing, subtly!
Cheetar Hi, I don't recall playing with you before. What is your stance on "PFP Players", players who only ever seem to post from phone?
Whoohoo! I don't have to miss the whole day, and things are looking up, too; discussions as to whether or not I have to go with the family are underway.*4maskwolf pokes around the post for a bit before dragging out the part relevant to him*
Only one question so far?flabort: If you were offered the choice, pre-game, of being a guaranteed arsonist or just taking a random role, what would you do?Hi, I'm flabort, I don't think I've actually met you before outside discussion leading up to this specific game. If I recall, you're the person responsible for those very special roles that Webadict grumps about?
Ah, as for the question. Looking up arsonist... hmm... Well, I'd certainly shy away from being a third party, due to my experience with such being that I can't play them well. Having a kill suits my idea of how I should play, though, especially a virtually unblockable one, but I think I would go with the random role.
4mask Hypothetical: It is 4 AM, on day 2. Your brain is tired, and someone just accused you without any proof. How does your tired brain react? Do you wait for the morning to refute, or do you respond immediately?
Cheetar Hi, I don't recall playing with you before. What is your stance on "PFP Players", players who only ever seem to post from phone?
Flabort Hi. Are you POT-aDoS? No. Are you Mexi Fries? No. Curly fries? No.
Imp Hello. I hear you're a returning player? What is your impression about each player you haven't played with before?
IronyOwl Hi. Let's say you needed a replacement in some other game, and the GM had to choose from the players in THIS game. Which of the players would you want the GM to pick? Which would you least trust to take over for you?
Jack A T Mario is Busing Bowser. How does Princess Peach, who is Tiruin, react? As a Toad, how do you react?
Jiokuy If you couldn't die, ever, how would you take the most advantage of that? How would you react to a player who's role made them completely immortal?
Nerjin Who do you think would claim if they were really a Miller? Who do you think would keep it to themselves?
notquitethere What is your costume's favorite food? What is your favorite food? Did you eat the cake? What is your opinion on starch?
Persus13 Let's say you picked the Death Note for your role, and your a SK. You can kill someone each night, but you can choose for their death to come later, and you can set post restrictions on them. How do you best utilize this power? Let's say your one-shot is to switch roles with some-one, too. How do you best use that to your advantage?
Scripten How do you best make use of a multiple voting role?
Shakerag What "shakeragian" role would you recommend for each player, based on what you know of those players?
Silthuri if you had the ability to intercept any actions targeting someone, and have them affect you, based off initial impressions who would you intercept for?
Tiruin Let's say you're not a miller, but a jester. Would you still have claimed miller? What would you be doing different if you were a miller or a jester?
Toaster You get the same question Shakerag asked me. If you were offered the choice between arsonist or random role, which would you pick?
TolyK How much time does work and sleep take away from the average Mafia player? How often should a Mafia player be posting?
Varee If you were to pick a different role, knowing the alignment you would be, than the one you picked, what role would you pick for your repick?
PPE: 11 replies. OK, nobody addressed me-tato in any of them.
4mask Hypothetical: It is 4 AM, on day 2. Your brain is tired, and someone just accused you without any proof. How does your tired brain react? Do you wait for the morning to refute, or do you respond immediately?Erm...
Nope. I like playing as all alignments. I've only been third party once where I replaced in to die, and even that was kinda fun.Are you implying that you're a third-party?
notquitethere What is your costume's favorite food? What is your favorite food? Did you eat the cake? What is your opinion on starch?My costume likes food that's on a cocktail stick in a cocktail glass filled with cocktail. My favourite food is pasta but only if it's with the right kind of sauce: it has to have fried onions in it. Maybe onions are my favourite food then. I am also quite partial to the crunch of pears but I also find them a little lacking. I probably didn't eat the cake as I don't like cake. It's too rich and sweet for my tastes. I am pro-starch. Do you know what my role is yet?
My costume likes food that's on a cocktail stick in a cocktail glass filled with cocktail. My favourite food is pasta but only if it's with the right kind of sauce: it has to have fried onions in it. Maybe onions are my favourite food then. I am also quite partial to the crunch of pears but I also find them a little lacking. I probably didn't eat the cake as I don't like cake. It's too rich and sweet for my tastes. I am pro-starch. Do you know what my role is yet?
But why? What made you think "Hm, because of _____, I'm going to claim Miller as my first post of the game, thereby accomplishing ______."Tiruin: Instant miller claim. Why claim so early in the game, Tiruin?It's more of a null claim, actually.
Here in B12, I've been amongst the discussions of a 'mandatory D1 miller claim' usage and have more on been leaning that it was a neutral tell than any kind of town idea given that such incorporates either diverse planning, suspicion and psychological aspects of the player, or the consistency of the role, the dayplay and the interactions between players. I'm doing this merely to poke at an aspect of my role.
Thinking along the idea the instance of this is for investigators: I'm either town miller or scum playing miller; neutral in the aspect of having the interpretation of it to...everyone else, actually. Doesn't matter much until value is placed on it however I give it as a note for advance--given the associative value of being a miller, it will be up to those who deem my attitude connected to whatever-may-be-important-to-them as an important note.
Meaning: How you interpret this is mostly based on how you...interpret it. I'm pointing more on others' interpretations here.
Idea: Lynching Tiruin is currently the best thing we can do right now- if she's miller, we save the trouble of investigator worrying about her. If she's scum, we killed a scum.Cool, I like this plan.
IronyOwl Hi. Let's say you needed a replacement in some other game, and the GM had to choose from the players in THIS game. Which of the players would you want the GM to pick? Which would you least trust to take over for you?Probably Jack AT and... hm. The only thing I recall about Jiokuy is that he got lynched D1 elsewhere, and I'm not familiar with Scripten at all. You're possibly not the greatest choice what with barely existing until D2.
Tiruin, you're saying miller is fitting for your role but not appropriate? Please be clear. Also, are you claiming 'Thought' was the role you sent in to Wuba? If so, could you explain why this was given 'Miller': what is the justification?>_>
Tiruin:I see it more as a way of tracking interactions. Obviously, there's the curious folk. Then there's scum who would use the shift of attention to either coast along calmly in the lack of heat, depending on the situation, and there are those which would show their attitudes at the slightest of provocation.But why? What made you think "Hm, because of _____, I'm going to claim Miller as my first post of the game, thereby accomplishing ______."Tiruin: Instant miller claim. Why claim so early in the game, Tiruin?It's more of a null claim, actually.
Here in B12, I've been amongst the discussions of a 'mandatory D1 miller claim' usage and have more on been leaning that it was a neutral tell than any kind of town idea given that such incorporates either diverse planning, suspicion and psychological aspects of the player, or the consistency of the role, the dayplay and the interactions between players. I'm doing this merely to poke at an aspect of my role.
Thinking along the idea the instance of this is for investigators: I'm either town miller or scum playing miller; neutral in the aspect of having the interpretation of it to...everyone else, actually. Doesn't matter much until value is placed on it however I give it as a note for advance--given the associative value of being a miller, it will be up to those who deem my attitude connected to whatever-may-be-important-to-them as an important note.
Meaning: How you interpret this is mostly based on how you...interpret it. I'm pointing more on others' interpretations here.
Walls of text, already?You try explaining miller in reference to your role and outguessing the mod that way. :v
NQT::'( I thought you were Canadian.
AörbannF re TQN. Nägev lilt aidjm nim dit.
Cheeetar:Idea: Lynching Tiruin is currently the best thing we can do right now- if she's miller, we save the trouble of investigator worrying about her. If she's scum, we killed a scum.Cool, I like this plan.
What happens D2?
You'd do well to expound on that 'plan' Cheeetar. There's so much more out there and you're leaving that space unclaimed by the label of 'best'.Cheeetar:Idea: Lynching Tiruin is currently the best thing we can do right now- if she's miller, we save the trouble of investigator worrying about her. If she's scum, we killed a scum.Cool, I like this plan.
What happens D2?
We'll have all of Day 1 and Night 1 to make some informed decision off of. Do note: I'd prefer a much longer day than just us lynching Tiruin right now, but I do see it as our current best plan.
FlabortInteresting abbreviation. Esperanto isn't very commonly used. Nor is a Caesar Shift of THIRTEEN.notquitethere What is your costume's favorite food? What is your favorite food? Did you eat the cake? What is your opinion on starch?My costume likes food that's on a cocktail stick in a cocktail glass filled with cocktail. My favourite food is pasta but only if it's with the right kind of sauce: it has to have fried onions in it. Maybe onions are my favourite food then. I am also quite partial to the crunch of pears but I also find them a little lacking. I probably didn't eat the cake as I don't like cake. It's too rich and sweet for my tastes. I am pro-starch. Do you know what my role is yet?
Google translate is coming up with Estonian, but if I turn it around (because TQN is obviously backwards), it's Icelandic. Neither way comes up with a result. ??? I don't know WHAT Persus is saying there at all. Good thing he's not addressing it to me, then.NQT::'( I thought you were Canadian.
AörbannF re TQN. Nägev lilt aidjm nim dit.
Jack A T, do you agree with my proposal?Zombie Urist in Supernatural 7, IIRC. Yeah.Cheetar Hi, I don't recall playing with you before. What is your stance on "PFP Players", players who only ever seem to post from phone?
That's a thing?
Sent from my iPhone.
Heck no. Even if my goal is to die, I won't lie about something that has no connection to me at all or would prove any benefit to me in anyway.Alright, makes sense, post formatting aside.
I'd be aiming to live to Day 2 then probably scum it up, however my goal would be to proving a tangle to the weave of interactions so that I would in the very least aid scumhunting. Because in all cases that I'm not Mafia, I'm pro-Town. Yeah, even as a SK :V
If I was a miller I'd...claim right away that I'm a miller more on because of the many implications carried with it. Most of which I believe is better inferred than said, given the base suspicion it entails. The powers of presumption are also strong in miller claims, so if I was a miller I'd at least play best to who I am in principle as a player--doing it honestly or doing an outright lie. The threat is little and apparent if I can't be consistent.
If I was a jester (given that jesters win upon lynch)...I'd very well scumhunt beforehand, then suitably--if properly done--attract scum, and then get scum to try to catch me via subtle manipulation [generalizing here], then I'd concede to my lynch via flailing, subtly!
Sure. Well, really late works. Thanks for the honesty, though I notice all possibilities are OMGUS; I guess if they had no proof, it would be deserved.4mask Hypothetical: It is 4 AM, on day 2. Your brain is tired, and someone just accused you without any proof. How does your tired brain react? Do you wait for the morning to refute, or do you respond immediately?Erm...
Okay, semantics point here, if I'm up at four in the morning it means that I just woke up, not that I haven't had sleep. And I'm a morning person, so...
But rephrasing it to "11 pm". If extends are available in this hypothetical game and the day ends tomorrow, vote them, extend, and go to sleep. If the day does not end tomorrow, vote them and go to sleep. If there are no extends and the day ends tomorrow, yell at them, point out how stupid they are being, vote them, and go to sleep.
I get irritable when I'm tired.
flabort:Well, not like I want to go; it sounds like I might not have to now, at least. We'll see; depends how tonight goes IRL.IronyOwl Hi. Let's say you needed a replacement in some other game, and the GM had to choose from the players in THIS game. Which of the players would you want the GM to pick? Which would you least trust to take over for you?Probably Jack AT and... hm. The only thing I recall about Jiokuy is that he got lynched D1 elsewhere, and I'm not familiar with Scripten at all. You're possibly not the greatest choice what with barely existing until D2.
Also I haven't heard or seen the acronym PFP before, and it doesn't come up on google as anything interesting. It means posting from phone, right, and it isn't some sort of way Webadict has given you of identifying yourselves to each other?Yeah, it means posting from phone. Basically, short mobile post where you don't have time to create one right.
I mean how can you classify THOUGHT? It is affected by its surroundings! Just like me. My powers are based on the # of people alive! <_< And even there I have no idea how they connect.Curious. Also, there are many ways to classify thought. I spent a good few years of my life studying philosophy that aims to do just that. But you haven't made any attempt to explain why 'thought' would come up 'scum' under inspect. And also, why are you so keen on not being role inspected?
Do you want me to try to explain that? You want me to get a headache huh :x
Why are you so privvy about a simple miller claim? Something to think about much more than is even needed?
It's like just because I claimed miller you've the right to wring everything out of me.If I say that I've got cake-destroying powers, I'd want people to ask how cake-destroying comes under the purview of my role. If I said I could mix a fine martini, I'd want people to ask whether martini-mixing was relevant to my role. You've claimed miller, if you're not able to say how that's relevant to your role then I'm going to have to lynch you as lying scum. Don't claim what you can't justify.
Allow me to justify thought, then.Sure, there are lots of problems mankind that aren't directly related to resource use. I don't see what that has to do with how 'Thought' justifies 'Being a Miller'.
Try to philosophize how mankind, sans the usage of resources, gets its problems. Let's leave that for you, in thought.
Just an FYI, posting coded messages is considered cheating. We're not here to play the long con on cryptography. I don't want hash function roleclaims, because those claims tend to end in modkills.Got it boss. Breadcrumbing (like, first letter of every sentence etc.) is still ok, right?
WubaYes. Because that's clever. Ats rnldsghmf khjd sghr htm's (But something like this isn't.) The reason being is that players could hold conversations by sharing keys or what have you, and basically making it completely unfair to other players. If you can hide an entire sentence inside your post (Every fifth letter or the start of each sentence), that's fair game.Just an FYI, posting coded messages is considered cheating. We're not here to play the long con on cryptography. I don't want hash function roleclaims, because those claims tend to end in modkills.Got it boss. Breadcrumbing (like, first letter of every sentence etc.) is still ok, right?
CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!WubaYes. Because that's clever. Ats rnldsghmf khjd sghr htm's (But something like this isn't.) The reason being is that players could hold conversations by sharing keys or what have you, and basically making it completely unfair to other players. If you can hide an entire sentence inside your post (Every fifth letter or the start of each sentence), that's fair game.Just an FYI, posting coded messages is considered cheating. We're not here to play the long con on cryptography. I don't want hash function roleclaims, because those claims tend to end in modkills.Got it boss. Breadcrumbing (like, first letter of every sentence etc.) is still ok, right?
Do that again, and I will vote you for wasting everyone's time. That was NOT neccesary and you shouldn't have done it. You are obviously intelligent enough to trim the post into something resembling coherent, so I expect you to do so in the future. It wasn't cute. It wasn't funny. It was a waste of time and space. If you're going to make a wall of text, do it because you have something to say. Not because... Whyever you did it.You know the number of shits I give about people threatening me with votes? Zero. You heard me right. Zero. Go ahead, use your vote for no other reason than you hate my posting style. All it would serve to do is prove that you don't particularly care about your vote, that you don't see it as a valuable weapon for you. Which is not a good thing, mind you.
Flabort, do you believe that Random Voting at the start of day 1 aids the town at all? If so, why aren't you using your vote? You seemed slightly passive in the way you responded to 4maskwolf. Also, what do you think of my plan?I think that random votes are just that: random. They have no bias towards helping town or helping scum.
Flabort, mi estas un Esperantisto. Multajn talentojn havas mi. Mi ne estas 'Caesar Cocktail', sed vi estas proksimeta.Ah, I have to say that Google Translate failed on that last word. :P My best guess is "close". Augustus Caesar? Caesar's Casino?
Just an FYI, posting coded messages is considered cheating. We're not here to play the long con on cryptography. I don't want hash function roleclaims, because those claims tend to end in modkills.Aw, but some of us enjoy this, and cryptology with no purpose is no fun :P
The plan, Flabort, is that we lynch Tiruin because of the claim she's made- it's a better alternative than anything else currently available in Day 1.Me?
4maskwolf, do you think my plan is incredibly stupid?
In fact, in case it wasn't obvious enough already that I am asking everybody:
Everybody, do you think a claimed miller lynch would be the best choice on Day 1, in the absence of any strong scumtells, or would a more random vote work better?
I think claiming miller prior to being investigated is more suspicious than claiming miller post being investigated.Why?
I think claiming miller prior to being investigated is more suspicious than claiming miller post being investigated.That, I don't agree with at all. Claiming post investigation just seems like a knee-jerk reaction to save your own scum hide, where as claiming before anyone has a chance to investigate has a chance to be telling the truth.
I think claiming miller prior to being investigated is more suspicious than claiming miller post being investigated.Why?
interpret from that that they've been investigated,And are you assuming that millers have a power that tells them that they got investigated? It wouldn't show up in their flavor unless they had such a power.
[/quote]Do that again, and I will vote you for wasting everyone's time. That was NOT neccesary and you shouldn't have done it. You are obviously intelligent enough to trim the post into something resembling coherent, so I expect you to do so in the future. It wasn't cute. It wasn't funny. It was a waste of time and space. If you're going to make a wall of text, do it because you have something to say. Not because... Whyever you did it.You know the number of shits I give about people threatening me with votes? Zero. . . . Go ahead, use your vote for no other reason than you hate my posting style. All it would . . . prove is] that you don't particularly care about your vote, . . .
No, it wasn't intended to be cute. . . . [C]alm yourself down and use your vote in a manner that is in accordance with the needs of the town. . .
interpret from that that they've been investigated,And are you assuming that millers have a power that tells them that they got investigated? It wouldn't show up in their flavor unless they had such a power.
If the flavor does tell everyone and anyone that they got investigated, then the scum would know if they got investigated too and claim miller the way you're saying a miller should.
Imp: Do you think your pre-game banter will make you more of a target now?
Imp, Cheetar, & Shakerag: I haven't played or seen a game of mafia in which you've taken part, but you seem to be a regular around these parts. What's your strong suite; day or night game?
Imp: You feel ready for Mafia after a long break? Do you think you'll be making any posts as long as the Behemoth this game?
Imp Hello. I hear you're a returning player? What is your impression about each player you haven't played with before?Utterly haven't had much time to form them yet. Ideally, by my ideals, I'll be tracking each one of you (new and old; in 6 months even players I 'knew' ((hah, for a handful of games' interactions)) may well have changed greatly) and using intuition and interaction patterns, interpret what I see and feel into something that may mean something about you all as players and alignments. Until I have firmer impressions, you're all 'I don't know' to me, even if I thought I knew you once.
Imp, do you trust Tiruin's miller claim?Haven't decided yet, not enough information. Tiruin has both lied and told the truth very smoothly in the past. I am not extremely and deeply concerned about it; at worst Tiruin is identified, as Cheeetar stated directly, as either a miller or as a Scum. Unless she has a power that activates if someone tries to investigate her alignment, and makes something she doesn't want to happen change if she is investigated. Like, dunno, if she picked 'Sub-atomic Particle' or something like that, which you can determine the position of, -or- the speed of, whichever you determine sends the other upon a wild change. I'm looking at everyone and thinking about everyone as best I can.
In fact, in case it wasn't obvious enough already that I am asking everybody:Ehh, I usually won't random vote. In general, I vote for reasons and my vote usually means I want them hung; rarely it means I want their attention and think I haven't been getting it previously; maybe someday I'll find another reason to vote for people. (Nerjin for re-election, woo!)
Everybody, do you think a claimed miller lynch would be the best choice on Day 1, in the absence of any strong scumtells, or would a more random vote work better?
Also, all this role playing is quite fun.[/abbr]
Note that I didn't say 'read it', because I can't.
Flabort: You're salting your post pretty heavily with clues about a possible role you may have. Why?Why not-ato? It's not like I have anything BAD this time around that might get me lynched. No kill, no miller, no vote steal... nothing tater-ly controversial.
Flabort: You're salting your post pretty heavily with clues about a possible role you may have. Why?Why not-ato? It's not like I have anything BAD this time around that might get me lynched. No kill, no miller, no vote steal... nothing tater-ly controversial.
4maskwolf: You profoundly 'gave up' and I dare say 'self destructed' in our first game together, where we both subbed into a newbie game under some difficult circumstances at about the same time. Do you still do things like that when you play Mafia?eheh.
The chances of being investigated as a miller in a 17 person game are fairly slim- I feel the risk of a mislynch due to it is quite small, and even then you may claim after being investigated in the night (possibly prior to the investigator outing themselves as such, and thus negating the need for the investigator to make themselves a scum target.) Specifically dissuading the investigator from trying to investigate you is suspicious.Please clarify: is the "risk of a mislynch" you mention the risk of being investigated and then mislynched, or the risk of being mislynched once one has been investigated? That is, is the risk small due to the low chance of being investigated, or due to there being a low chance of being lynched once investigated?
Eh, pretty much. Isn't that what the game's about? Fun? It wouldn't be a game if it weren't.Soo, you say you're doing this just for fun? Not because it has any strategic purpose of value for you at all?Flabort: You're salting your post pretty heavily with clues about a possible role you may have. Why?Why not-ato? It's not like I have anything BAD this time around that might get me lynched. No kill, no miller, no vote steal... nothing tater-ly controversial.
I see it more as a way of tracking interactions. Obviously, there's the curious folk. Then there's scum who would use the shift of attention to either coast along calmly in the lack of heat, depending on the situation, and there are those which would show their attitudes at the slightest of provocation.Any particular reason to believe you're telling the truth about it, then?
All it takes is a spark--the claim was a note of my role: part of it was also my interest in how others would see it, but not just because I had it.
What it is, is curiosity about you all.
To be honest I'm not familiar enough with either of them anymore. Well, I think I'm still reasonably familiar with Tiruin, but her posts tend to make my head hurt. :Pflabort:Well, not like I want to go; it sounds like I might not have to now, at least. We'll see; depends how tonight goes IRL.IronyOwl Hi. Let's say you needed a replacement in some other game, and the GM had to choose from the players in THIS game. Which of the players would you want the GM to pick? Which would you least trust to take over for you?Probably Jack AT and... hm. The only thing I recall about Jiokuy is that he got lynched D1 elsewhere, and I'm not familiar with Scripten at all. You're possibly not the greatest choice what with barely existing until D2.
Shakerag and Tiruin are not options? You wouldn't trust Silthuri with your spot?
In fact, in case it wasn't obvious enough already that I am asking everybody:I think it's a useless water-treading crutch. Making up our minds that we're going to lynch the most obvious target unless someone else confesses reduces the effectiveness and motivation of scumhunting, which gives us an even more useless D1 than normal. I think that if we can't find a better target than a first-post-confessed Miller, we should man up, accept that we're fucked regardless, and lynch whoever said the wrong thing at the wrong time and then dug themselves a hole with it, just like normal.
Everybody, do you think a claimed miller lynch would be the best choice on Day 1, in the absence of any strong scumtells, or would a more random vote work better?
The chances of being investigated as a miller in a 17 person game are fairly slim- I feel the risk of a mislynch due to it is quite smallThese first two seem to cancel each other out, don't they? If the odds are low, why bother with it as scum either?
Specifically dissuading the investigator from trying to investigate you is suspicious.
Claiming pre-investigation miller seems like a self preservation technique, even if you're town- it's to avoid being mislynched (or appropriately lynched) after investigation, yes?
eheh.Super7. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139118.msg5473553#msg5473553) You came back eventually, but it wasn't quick or clean. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139118.msg5473671#msg5473671)
Eheheheheheheh.
Good times, good times.
Well, let's take a poll.
Everyone: Have I ever "given up" in a mafia game you have seen me play, barring the over dramatized giving up post I made in Jack's BYOR when I was fakeclaiming martyr and my first two games (my first BM and Wuba's last game)?
That's different. My death there was going to be a huge boon to the town(although my survival even more so), and I did die eventually (heh the scum thought they could frame me).
Also, yes, I am fed up with mafia. I'm playing partially because a couple of people have told I should and partly because even though I'm done, part of me doesn't want to give it up, because it's been fun in the past. That's not to say I won't play well: I will. I'm just sick and tired of playing the game. Or any game, for that matter.
Cheeetar:
Under what circumstances do you think an investigator should check a claimed Miller?
What would you do if you were an investigator, and checked a claimed Miller, and got a Town result?
Claiming Miller in your very first post is a good practice, and is a null tell.
This is a practice I've strongly believed and followed all the way back to Paranormal 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77045.0), in which I did just this and was able to catch scum D1 over it. Also that game was three years ago holy shit has it been that long
TL;DR it tells cops ahead of time what result they would get from inspecting that person, and lets them inspect other people instead. If a townie claims that truthfully, then they saved the investigator an action and possibly prevented a mislynch, while a scum fakeclaiming that probably won't get investigated. In both cases, a rolecop can see the truth. In short, it's a null tell.
TiruinI'm being condemned because I'm trying to explain why the mod game me miller in lieu of why I've this kind of role >_>I mean how can you classify THOUGHT? It is affected by its surroundings! Just like me. My powers are based on the # of people alive! <_< And even there I have no idea how they connect.Curious. Also, there are many ways to classify thought. I spent a good few years of my life studying philosophy that aims to do just that. But you haven't made any attempt to explain why 'thought' would come up 'scum' under inspect. And also, why are you so keen on not being role inspected?
Do you want me to try to explain that? You want me to get a headache huh :x
The only short way I can actually prove whatever 'veracity' you've got there is by role/nameclaiming, which I will not do due to my recall of mechanics also working on the idea of knowing people's names and the semantics within it--it was a thing in BYORs, and by far that is what I see in your ideas here, NQT.Why are you so privvy about a simple miller claim? Something to think about much more than is even needed?Oh you're right Tiruin, I'm questioning another player in a game of mafia too much, I sure better back off right now.You make a bold claim, I'm doing my job of questioning the veracity of that claim.
If I say that I've got cake-destroying powers, I'd want people to ask how cake-destroying comes under the purview of my role. If I said I could mix a fine martini, I'd want people to ask whether martini-mixing was relevant to my role. You've claimed miller, if you're not able to say how that's relevant to your role then I'm going to have to lynch you as lying scum. Don't claim what you can't justify....Yeah, downplay an analogy by relating it to food or the concept of physics.
Sure, there are lots of problems mankind that aren't directly related to resource use. I don't see what that has to do with how 'Thought' justifies 'Being a Miller'.>__>
The plan, Flabort, is that we lynch Tiruin because of the claim she's made- it's a better alternative than anything else currently available in Day 1.AGAIN you use the term 'better' yet your foundation on the idea is vague at most.
Is this it?I think claiming miller prior to being investigated is more suspicious than claiming miller post being investigated.Why?
The chances of being investigated as a miller in a 17 person game are fairly slim- I feel the risk of a mislynch due to it is quite small, and even then you may claim after being investigated in the night (possibly prior to the investigator outing themselves as such, and thus negating the need for the investigator to make themselves a scum target.) Specifically dissuading the investigator from trying to investigate you is suspicious.
Claiming pre-investigation miller seems like a self preservation technique, even if you're town- it's to avoid being mislynched (or appropriately lynched) after investigation, yes?
It means posting from phone, right, and it isn't some sort of way Webadict has given you of identifying yourselves to each other?It seems you are too steeped enough by the perception of you scumhunting that you're finding many other ways to 'hunt' instead of consulting the most basic resources at hand, huh.
Tiruin:Particular-...What?I see it more as a way of tracking interactions. Obviously, there's the curious folk. Then there's scum who would use the shift of attention to either coast along calmly in the lack of heat, depending on the situation, and there are those which would show their attitudes at the slightest of provocation.Any particular reason to believe you're telling the truth about it, then?
All it takes is a spark--the claim was a note of my role: part of it was also my interest in how others would see it, but not just because I had it.
What it is, is curiosity about you all.
Tiruin, why do you not want to be rolecopped?. . .
That's different. My death there was going to be a huge boon to the town(although my survival even more so), and I did die eventually (heh the scum thought they could frame me).:-\
Also, yes, I am fed up with mafia. I'm playing partially because a couple of people have told I should and partly because even though I'm done, part of me doesn't want to give it up, because it's been fun in the past. That's not to say I won't play well: I will. I'm just sick and tired of playing the game. Or any game, for that matter.
Tiruin. Why exactly did you claim? Would you please explain how you believed your claim would help town? Until such a time as you've explained this, I feel my vote is best used on you.*points up*
I'm not at all familiar with claims on Day 1. It seems... audacious to me? I don't like that a miller claim essentially means you're immune to investigation from an alignment cop- however true it may be, it seems to me something that a townie would not do.Mmm, why wouldn't a townie do that?
And how does that help you?QuoteImagine if you were investigated as scum in the future: how would you pass that off? Let me round that question to you?"Hello, I have been investigated and I am not a scum- I'm a miller. Honest! Here is where I have been towny, and aided the town. Here is where I have done things a scum would not do. Please do not lynch me."
You are a Miller but didn't claim earlier that you were a miller.
For an investigative role, I'd say most would target those they either saw as scummy, or couldn't get a read on. I use the '1 in 17' chance, but I understand that it's not precisely that. However, given that the investigator may be any number of people in any number of moods, it would be very difficult to get a read on who they would be investigating, hence it's fairly random. (This is assuming there is no obvious target for investigation, which there may well be later on.)That's better, now. Clarity.
QuoteI'm not at all familiar with claims on Day 1. It seems... audacious to me? I don't like that a miller claim essentially means you're immune to investigation from an alignment cop- however true it may be, it seems to me something that a townie would not do.Mmm, why wouldn't a townie do that?
Why wouldn't a person do that?
QuoteAnd how does that help you?QuoteImagine if you were investigated as scum in the future: how would you pass that off? Let me round that question to you?"Hello, I have been investigated and I am not a scum- I'm a miller. Honest! Here is where I have been towny, and aided the town. Here is where I have done things a scum would not do. Please do not lynch me."
You are a Miller but didn't claim earlier that you were a miller.
QuoteFor an investigative role, I'd say most would target those they either saw as scummy, or couldn't get a read on. I use the '1 in 17' chance, but I understand that it's not precisely that. However, given that the investigator may be any number of people in any number of moods, it would be very difficult to get a read on who they would be investigating, hence it's fairly random. (This is assuming there is no obvious target for investigation, which there may well be later on.)That's better, now. Clarity.
It isn't something done by chance unless the investigator lacks experience in what they do and just wishes to shoot blindly--a choice, rather.
It is a matter of thought and analysis. Will mood be the determinant of the action or will you think about using something which can be used as a limited resource in a given timeframe, wisely?
Is it still chance that way?
Or is there something I'm missing when you used chance as a reference?
Indeed it is--but the worry comes from what others will do no matter what happens, right? Who, in a general sense, would want to make the discussion about themselves? I'm very doubtful that a townie in any sense would do that.QuoteI'm not at all familiar with claims on Day 1. It seems... audacious to me? I don't like that a miller claim essentially means you're immune to investigation from an alignment cop- however true it may be, it seems to me something that a townie would not do.Mmm, why wouldn't a townie do that?
Why wouldn't a person do that?
My initial thought was that a townie wouldn't make the discussion about themselves- they wouldn't be all too worried about being investigated anyway. A claim doesn't aid the town, so there's no need for it, and they'd focus on scumhunting.
As town, I wouldn't want the day wasted on a lynch of me. If I can be convincing in my claim of miller, I can then continue assisting and try to find a scum to lynch.Your claim is weighed against the claim of an investigator.
Imp: Welcome back! What did you learn in your absence that's applicable to Mafia?
QuoteAs town, I wouldn't want the day wasted on a lynch of me. If I can be convincing in my claim of miller, I can then continue assisting and try to find a scum to lynch.Your claim is weighed against the claim of an investigator.
Also, Cheetar, what is this silliness about claiming after instead of before?4maskwolf: Out of all of Cheeetar's lynch push, this is what you latch on to? The bit where he shows cluelessness about how the game works? Please explain how this specific part of Cheeetar's argument indicates scumhood.
Jack A T Mario is Busing Bowser. How does Princess Peach, who is Tiruin, react? As a Toad, how do you react?flabort: I'll deal with this later. I don't really feel like digging through Google Drive right now, sorry.
If Tiruin is really a miller, I will eat Webadict's birthday hat.Cheeetar: Is a miller claim really that huge a scumtell to you, or is there something else that leaves/left you so absolutely convinced of Tiruin's scumhood?
Jack A T, do you agree with my proposal [to lynch Tiruin for claiming miller]?No. Your plan is a lazy policy lynch that isn't even based on good policy. I do not support lazy policy lynches. I do not support discouraging millers from doing what they can to minimize wasted inspects.
It is true that it is not a given that they will be lynched. It is merely a near certainty, as opposed to an absolute certainty. Nobody would take the "I'm a miller and I decided not to tell you until my neck was on the chopping block oh and the cop wasted an inspect!" defense seriously.It's not a 'strategy'- I'm saying even in the eventuality of the miller being investigated (quite low should they act like town and scumhunt), it is not a given that they will then be lynched. If we are to say that a miller claiming is towny, wouldn't every scumteam have a scum claim miller in every game? I don't believe a day 1 claim of miller is helpful to the town, no.Spoiler: Jack A T (click to show/hide)
...however true it may be, it [claiming miller] seems to me something that a townie would not do.And yet townies do it. You already saw Toaster noting his views and that it was his standard practice. Is there a reason this assumption continues even after it has been shown that townies do it?
Alright. Given the resolution of my suspicions, I'll unvote Tiruin.Cheetar: Fascinating. Do you still think Tiruin is lying about being a miller, or has that suspicion been negated? Is this unvote primarily based on the negative reaction to your case?
TolyK How much time does work and sleep take away from the average Mafia player? How often should a Mafia player be posting?I'm surprised that this is the only question to me, but with this many people...
The plan, Flabort, is that we lynch Tiruin because of the claim she's made- it's a better alternative than anything else currently available in Day 1.I think it's possible to have more scum tells d1 due to 17 players.
4maskwolf, do you think my plan is incredibly stupid?
In fact, in case it wasn't obvious enough already that I am asking everybody:
Everybody, do you think a claimed miller lynch would be the best choice on Day 1, in the absence of any strong scumtells, or would a more random vote work better?
I think claiming miller prior to being investigated is more suspicious than claiming miller post being investigated.Nah, don't agree. Claiming up front is really risky for scum unless they have a pseudo-miller ability.
The investigator's claim of me receiving a scum result on investigation wouldn't conflict with my own claim- it'd merely confirm that I was either miller or scum.Err...yeah. Hence my point on the matter. >_>
Mmm...fascinated =/= overfocused?Imp: Welcome back! What did you learn in your absence that's applicable to Mafia?
I'm no longer fascinated by Mafia. Still interested, but not all gung ho.
So lots of related similar game experiences but no longer overfocused on the game.
Tiruin: By rolecop, you mean alignment cop, right? Because the latter's the one that learns alignments. The former learns roles....Yeah. Alignments >_> Sorry.
Is your miller power one of those dependent on the number of players? What did Webadict say about you being a miller? Please tell us everything you're comfortable telling us about your milleriness.
- Holy crap. Jack and Irony are playing. I must have missed that.You don't view the players list a lot, do ya? :P
- Op lets me as replacement when I've already replaced :p but that probably means the lack of questions.You replaced someone?
Nah, don't agree. Claiming up front is really risky for scum unless they have a pseudo-miller ability.I remember one game wherein you were a miller, was caught and didn't claim at the start--could you give insight regarding that matter? How did it feel for you? How did you regard the first person to poke you on it?
Claiming Miller later is more suspicious, but possibly more useful to the player if the chip doesn't reveal themselves yet.
Is your miller power one of those dependent on the number of players? What did Webadict say about you being a miller? Please tell us everything you're comfortable telling us about your milleriness.
The investigator's claim of me receiving a scum result on investigation wouldn't conflict with my own claim- it'd merely confirm that I was either miller or scum.Err...yeah. Hence my point on the matter. >_>
...Also, Resolution? Is this more of a personal thing or am I missing something?
Cheeetar: What makes a person scummy in your eyes and do you mean all words you say, when you say them? Are they to be taken as-is?
TolyKSometimes, sometimes)Quote- Holy crap. Jack and Irony are playing. I must have missed that.You don't view the players list a lot, do ya? :P
Hapah, before the game started.Quote- Op lets me as replacement when I've already replaced :p but that probably means the lack of questions.You replaced someone?
Query for ya since you mentioned a tangent:AFAIR, I was ready for the questioning to start at any moment, but wasn't really ready to do anything about it. There was a Miller claim before that, so u was suspicious of them, and everyone was suspicious of me.QuoteNah, don't agree. Claiming up front is really risky for scum unless they have a pseudo-miller ability.I remember one game wherein you were a miller, was caught and didn't claim at the start--could you give insight regarding that matter? How did it feel for you? How did you regard the first person to poke you on it?
Claiming Miller later is more suspicious, but possibly more useful to the player if the chip doesn't reveal themselves yet.
In fact, in case it wasn't obvious enough already that I am asking everybody:Trouble with policy lynches is, if they're on town they give scum an easy way of not making a case.
Everybody, do you think a claimed miller lynch would be the best choice on Day 1, in the absence of any strong scumtells, or would a more random vote work better?
notquitethere: Have you already started your spreadsheet for this game? If yes, what do you now consider the most important thing(s) to track? If not, do you still use spreadsheets? If not, why not?No, not yet. I usually wait to see if I survive until Day 2 before putting in that level of investment. The most important things to track are the same: player engagement and strength of cases, and whether players are actively fostering suspicions. I measure these in different ways (I don't want to go into too much detail: as you know, scum have been known to game the metrics I've tried following in the past).
NQT: What does the unpredictable nature of a BYOR do to your analytical hunting style?Ask me this again on Day 3. I have an answer but if I tell you now, scum might change their behaviour accordingly.
Wow NQT. That's pretty low of you. Why I'm 'so keen' on not having my role inspected is because it'll end up MAFIA. Are you trying to be obfuscating or are you seeing something I'm not even in the most blatant of logics? <_<Why should you care about being inspected when you've openly said you're a miller?
Find me a game where a Miller was a mostly innocent idea in the first place, because the method of your approach is flawed in its foundations. If you cannot, I'm free to hang, but let me tell you that it was in the interpretation of the moderator that led to being a miller in most cases--for the rest, it seems more on just getting miller.If I understand your claim correctly, you're saying you're not sure why Wuba gave you 'miller' because it doesn't fit particularly with the concept you submitted. There's a very easy way to resolve this: just tell me the name of the auto-role that gives you the miller status. Then I can see whether it thematically fits or not. So I'm crystal clear, imagine this is your role PM:
You believe that I'm a miller, or in the least do claim miller--is my effort on trying to explain why I am a miller too much for you to handle or do you want to go off on a tangent that'd waste both of our energies? I lack any indication on why it is so bold or important for you to dwell on, and lest it be me explaining for myself, you need to clarify your foundation before anything else unless we go into misunderstandings.You've made the bold claim here Tiruin: you're saying that you will appear as scum on inspection. You know who else appears scum on inspection? Scum. All too often players just accept other people's claims without pushing them on it. I know that you're more than capable of fake-claiming, so I want to test that by questioning you. I'm not wasting anyone's time here, I'm playing the game.
If I'm not able to see how relevant to my role, then I'm lying scum~It was very obvious to me how each of my role powers fit in with the concept I sent Wuba. Is there [size=18]anyone else[/size] who is unsure how their role fits in with the idea they sent? If you're unclear, you know you can just ask Wuba, right?
How the heck do you want me to see relevance in a mod's decision!? Lying scum for what!?
Is your aim to know my rolename or not?I actually just wanted to know whether it fit in with the rolename. If you'd have said 'yes, it fits with the role' then I'd have probably dropped it. Now I want to know what the role-power name is that gives you miller.
Have you missed my obvious cue. THOUGHT. THERE?No, I figured that's what you were claiming was your role (or something related to thought).
Ugh. You vote me for not being direct yet you cling yourself to the idea that you're scumhunting by asking me something I can't even answer.You can definitely answer my questions. I'll even restate what I'm now asking for in a very clear way. You can ignore the rest of the above and just respond to these two things if you like:
If I understand your claim correctly, you're saying you're not sure why Wuba gave you 'miller' because it doesn't fit particularly with the concept you submitted. There's a very easy way to resolve this: just tell me the name of the auto-role that gives you the miller status. Then I can see whether it thematically fits or not. So I'm crystal clear, imagine this is your role PM:
(auto) Deviance: Your entertain all manner of strange thoughts and so come up as Mafia on inspection.
(night) Conceptualisation: blah blah blah.
(one-shot) Abstraction: blah blah blah
I want to know what the bold part is for your miller status.
Why should you care about being inspected when you've openly said you're a miller?@__@
If I understand your claim correctly, you're saying you're not sure why Wuba gave you 'miller' because it doesn't fit particularly with the concept you submitted. There's a very easy way to resolve this: just tell me the name of the auto-role that gives you the miller status. Then I can see whether it thematically fits or not. So I'm crystal clear, imagine this is your role PM:@1st paragraph: Yes.
(auto) Deviance: Your entertain all manner of strange thoughts and so come up as Mafia on inspection.
(night) Conceptualisation: blah blah blah.
(one-shot) Abstraction: blah blah blah
I want to know what the bold part is for your miller status.
You've made the bold claim here Tiruin: you're saying that you will appear as scum on inspection. You know who else appears scum on inspection? Scum. All too often players just accept other people's claims without pushing them on it. I know that you're more than capable of fake-claiming, so I want to test that by questioning you. I'm not wasting anyone's time here, I'm playing the game.So why do you ask me to interpret why the mod would make me a darn miller?
I actually just wanted to know whether it fit in with the rolename. If you'd have said 'yes, it fits with the role' then I'd have probably dropped it. Now I want to know what the role-power name is that gives you miller.Now that's a brilliant piece of scumhunting <_< Hey let's claim miller for the lolz!
You can definitely answer my questions. I'll even restate what I'm now asking for in a very clear way. You can ignore the rest of the above and just respond to these two things if you like:I'm failure sure in that its in the interpretation which qualifies it as miller.
1. What is the name of the (auto) power that gives you 'miller'?
2. If you're not sure how miller fits with the idea you sent to wuba, could you ask him to clarify?
I'm Unlucky = Miller. [You show up as Mafia on inspects paraphrased]Ok thanks. And is Unlucky a word that fits with your concept?
@__@You said "don't inspect me". I can only take that one way, that you don't want to be inspected.
Didn't I say I don't? >_>
Why do you care so much about it? Got an ability or tag to inspect it? Go bloody ahead.No, I just taking the smallest efforts to check whether you're lying.
So why do you ask me to interpret why the mod would make me a darn miller?Because it should be obvious. Wuba isn't some kind of mystic poet: his roles and role powers make sense with the concepts he's given and should be clear to the person who sent the role in.
Now that's a brilliant piece of scumhunting <_< Hey let's claim miller for the lolz!How is this relevant to what I'm asking? I'm trying to ascertain whether you're telling lies and you're not filling me with much confidence.
I'm failure sure in that its in the interpretation which qualifies it as miller.Could you rephrase this sentence so it's clearer please.
Varee, how do you intend to make the most out of Day 1?Well...... First thing is i need to sort though this 6 page of stuff that pop up when i sleep and 6 more when i return home..... then maybe i can start forming some question....
Varee If you were to pick a different role, knowing the alignment you would be, than the one you picked, what role would you pick for your repick?Hmm interesting question. I would say I will be going with scooby doo. yeah...... weird question with a weirder answer?
Varee, would you rather have a roleblock or a kill? Follow or protect? Powerful one-shot or weak infinite use?I prefer a power heavy role as I like to relia on info more than scum hunting. Just the amount of stuff that pop up while I sleep is way too much for me to sort though in the morning. So it would be roleblock. Follow and infinite power. I really have a hard time using one shots unless there a plan i have in mind like the CYOR games. Follow is always nice way to gain info. and a kill is always hard to decide to use.
Varee: Do you consider your efforts to fake cluelessness in my BYOR to have been pro-town? Hypothetically, how would you react if you discovered that someone new to the forum was doing similar things in this BYOR?I dont know the threshold of lying in this forum yet. I think it is not so bad to fake noob as you are most likly to pull it off once and in that byor it was close to the end so i decide to do it.
Cheetar, I'm trying to ascertain whether Tiruin is telling the truth or not about her claim. I'm no asking about anything that isn't relevant to what she's already declared. Do you have a problem with this? What level of scrutiny would be more appropriate?
NQTI wait in giddy anticipation.QuoteVaree, how do you intend to make the most out of Day 1?Well...... First thing is i need to sort though this 6 page of stuff that pop up when i sleep and 6 more when i return home..... then maybe i can start forming some question....
so whoever feel like they have time to give opinion: What do you think is lying too much. Is saying your internet broke down to avoid answering question?That's pretty lynch-worthy. Even if you're town, that sort of laziness means you can't be trusted to make the right choice at LYLO.
To ask for the exact name of the role is suspicious. It leads me to think there is a reason you want the exact name rather than an explanation of how it ties in.It's not likely a role-power thief would steal miller. Tiruin said she didn't know why Wuba had made her a miller. I'm contending that it should be bloody obvious from the name of the auto that gives her miller. If she'd said she knew why she was a miller, I'd have dropped the issue. It's only because she continues to make suspicious claims, I'm continuing to press. If I'm so suspicious though, why aren't you voting me?
whoever feel like they have time to give opinion: What do you think is lying too much. Is saying your internet broke down to avoid answering question?As a universal rule, players when citing RL as a reason have that reason as a sanctum for not being able to do 'x'. If your internet didn't break down--why even lie about it at all?
Nyuh.Cheetar, I'm trying to ascertain whether Tiruin is telling the truth or not about her claim. I'm no asking about anything that isn't relevant to what she's already declared. Do you have a problem with this? What level of scrutiny would be more appropriate?
To ask for the exact name of the role is suspicious. It leads me to think there is a reason you want the exact name rather than an explanation of how it ties in.
TiruinYes.I'm Unlucky = Miller. [You show up as Mafia on inspects paraphrased]Ok thanks. And is Unlucky a word that fits with your concept?
You said "don't inspect me". I can only take that one way, that you don't want to be inspected....Because I'm a Miller? And it'll show scum eitherwhichway?
No, I just taking the smallest efforts to check whether you're lying....And what basis do you have for it? Inconsistency? If so, go poke at it please. I wish to know.
Because it should be obvious. Wuba isn't some kind of mystic poet: his roles and role powers make sense with the concepts he's given and should be clear to the person who sent the role in.Eeeeeyeeaaahh.
How is this relevant to what I'm asking? I'm trying to ascertain whether you're telling lies and you're not filling me with much confidence.:\
I actually just wanted to know whether it fit in with the rolename. If you'd have said 'yes, it fits with the role' then I'd have probably dropped it. Now I want to know what the role-power name is that gives you miller.This.
Thank you for answering one of my two questions. Now could you tell me whether 'Unlucky' is an appropriate power name for the role you sent in?...Well, a Tsunami usually has aftershocks related to it and the pacific ocean is more Ocean rather than the oceanic crust the energy originates from so I'd go with Tsunami.
To make sure I'm super clear, here are three pairs of role names and role power names. Can you spot which one is inappropriate?
NECROMANCER
Raise Dead (night) - blah blah
BUNNY
Chartered Accountancy (auto) - blah blah
THE PACIFIC OCEAN
Tsunami (one-shot) - blah blah
CheetarTo ask for the exact name of the role is suspicious. It leads me to think there is a reason you want the exact name rather than an explanation of how it ties in.It's not likely a role-power thief would steal miller. Tiruin said she didn't know why Wuba had made her a miller. I'm contending that it should be bloody obvious from the name of the auto that gives her miller. If she'd said she knew why she was a miller, I'd have dropped the issue. It's only because she continues to make suspicious claims, I'm continuing to press. If I'm so suspicious though, why aren't you voting me?
Do you think I need to vote for you? Is there not enough pressure for you to answer adequately without a vote?Saying I'm 'suspicious' is empty if you don't think it's worth lynching over. I'm going to answer your questions regardless of whether you think me suspicious.
TolyK, do you intend to let a mislynch happen today?Depends on what you mean by mislynch exactly, but most likely not. If I knew the subject was town (godfathers?!) then I would prevent it by all means.
CheetarDo you think I need to vote for you? Is there not enough pressure for you to answer adequately without a vote?Saying I'm 'suspicious' is empty if you don't think it's worth lynching over. I'm going to answer your questions regardless of whether you think me suspicious.
Depends on what you mean by mislynch exactly, but most likely not.A mislynch=member of the town being lynched. Most likely not? So a little bit likely to?
TiruinB-but..my questions.
OK. You've show sufficient engagement with the question that I now believe your claim. Unvote.
...There are multiple definitions of mislynch other than the obvious?TolyK, do you intend to let a mislynch happen today?Depends on what you mean by mislynch exactly, but most likely not. If I knew the subject was town (godfathers?!) then I would prevent it by all means.
Cheetar
OK, I think looking back I was overstating my point. Do you intend to converse with everyone on Day 1?
TolykIt could possibly be bad to do so - if I think someone is town but that would require revealing my role in a dangerous situation (where my role could do better for later), then I might not risk myself for someone else.Depends on what you mean by mislynch exactly, but most likely not.A mislynch=member of the town being lynched. Most likely not? So a little bit likely to?
WolfI guess you can. I'm not that invested in staying alive this game, so in the absence of other tells, I offer myself as tribute.
In the absence of any other tells, is it okay for us to quicklynch you before you have a chance to enact some complex gambit? Don't tell me you're not tempted by gambits.
It's called a random vote. I was prying for more specifics on why Cheeetar believed that claiming miller after an investigation was a null tell but claiming before was a scumtell. I believe the exact opposite: claiming miller day one is a good idea in games. I see it as a null tell: I'll still lynch them if they act suspicious, but I won't put their lynch before anyone else's.Also, Cheetar, what is this silliness about claiming after instead of before?4maskwolf: Out of all of Cheeetar's lynch push, this is what you latch on to? The bit where he shows cluelessness about how the game works? Please explain how this specific part of Cheeetar's argument indicates scumhood.
4maskwolf: Right, this is where I bring that question back again. In the situation of being chided or seemingly being faced with abrasiveness, do you think it is better to act proactively or act reactively? As in, the former being a response which is calm and collected versus the response that lies with emotions and has more 'impact' in a sense?Heh, the question looked bigger on my ipod. Which is better? Calm and collected. Which am I likely to do? Emotional.
Interesting Toly. Do you have any questions for me?Yes - why the question initially?
flabort: Why do you use intricate methods of analogy in questions to certain people? Is it a shift of viewpoint or is there something up with your wording there?I can't say I'm entirely sure what you mean. Could you point out where I used analogy (besides Jack, and it's more reaction test than analogy there)?
FlabortNo, nothing weird about your answer at all. I mean, my question is quite random, but it is/was RVS, which implies random.QuoteVaree If you were to pick a different role, knowing the alignment you would be, than the one you picked, what role would you pick for your repick?Hmm interesting question. I would say I will be going with scooby doo. yeah...... weird question with a weirder answer?
Yup, definitely got out of camping. whew.But camping is the best...
Toaster You get the same question Shakerag asked me. If you were offered the choice between arsonist or random role, which would you pick?
I got permission to stay! I won't be absent at all it turns out. :D
Toaster Yeah it's a lot of post-atos. I bet that it's a lot to come to if you weren't there the whole time.
Do you know what my role is yet?
Do you think not being able to read the posts will affect your scum hunting?
THE PACIFIC OCEAN
Tsunami (one-shot) - blah blah
Everybody, do you think a claimed miller lynch would be the best choice on Day 1, in the absence of any strong scumtells, or would a more random vote work better?
I think claiming miller prior to being investigated is more suspicious than claiming miller post being investigated.
whoever feel like they have time to give opinion: What do you think is lying too much. Is saying your internet broke down to avoid answering question?
Wasn't meant to be a bandwagon, but we're all rushing to post right out of the gate.Good answer.
Persus, why aren't you bandwagoning Tiruin?Because I'm busy doing other stuff, and Tiruin tends to get mad when suddenly attacked from all sides for no apparent reason.
Hello America. This is your President, Nerjin, presiding. I think it's time for us to have a little chat, if you don't mind. But before I ask questions of you, a concerned citizen has written to me with regards to a question they have.Wow, Are you going to do this all game?Nerjin: How do BYORs differ compared to regular Mafia?
Oh quite the rapscallion we have here folks. Ha ha, let's answer that. One could consider a BYOR to be America. Strong. Proud. Unpredictable in composition. As opposed to some less countries which are our stand ins for regular mafia. Weak. Pathetic. Predictable. That is not to say that a regular mafia game isn't good. It's just that a BYOR is the best.
Are you being genuinely serious about calling bandwagoning already? :-/No, I don't think I've played with Scripten before so I did that to see how he would deal with pressure.
Tiruin:Zoom in on it, that's what I always do.Yes, I know. And I seethe every time I see it. Note that I didn't say 'read it', because I can't.Tiruin: Why are you using that damn tiny text? Are you trying to hide something? Obviously you must be fake-miller-claiming scum then.Also I do it everywhere on the forum.
Persus13 Let's say you picked the Death Note for your role, and your a SK. You can kill someone each night, but you can choose for their death to come later, and you can set post restrictions on them. How do you best utilize this power? Let's say your one-shot is to switch roles with some-one, too. How do you best use that to your advantage?I wouldn't pick Death Note as a role. I'm also not going to give advice on how best to use your role. Besides, I've never played with post restrictions.
You'd probably be able to recognize that I had reversed the first and last letters if I hadn't translated what I was saying into Swedish.Google translate is coming up with Estonian, but if I turn it around (because TQN is obviously backwards), it's Icelandic. Neither way comes up with a result. ??? I don't know WHAT Persus is saying there at all. Good thing he's not addressing it to me, then.NQT::'( I thought you were Canadian.
AörbannF re TQN. Nägev lilt aidjm nim dit.
I am, sortof. I also can use Google Translate.NQT::'( I thought you were Canadian.
AörbannF re TQN. Nägev lilt aidjm nim dit.
4maskwolf, quoting a small wall of text for no reason is bad forum etiquette, especially as you can't go back and edit it. This game already has and will have plenty of extremely long posts. Adding to it does not help. It is unhelpful to the game in general. Responding to someone's comment about it being unhelpful by being even more unhelpful and threatening doesn't help either.Do that again, and I will vote you for wasting everyone's time. That was NOT neccesary and you shouldn't have done it. You are obviously intelligent enough to trim the post into something resembling coherent, so I expect you to do so in the future. It wasn't cute. It wasn't funny. It was a waste of time and space. If you're going to make a wall of text, do it because you have something to say. Not because... Whyever you did it.You know the number of shits I give about people threatening me with votes? Zero. You heard me right. Zero. Go ahead, use your vote for no other reason than you hate my posting style. All it would serve to do is prove that you don't particularly care about your vote, that you don't see it as a valuable weapon for you. Which is not a good thing, mind you.
Everybody, do you think a claimed miller lynch would be the best choice on Day 1, in the absence of any strong scumtells, or would a more random vote work better?No. Discouraging people from claiming miller is a terrible idea, and that's what a D1 miller policy lynch would do. If you're a town miller, claiming first post D1 prevents a wasted inspect from an alignment cop, which would almost certainly result in the lynch of a town player and the reveal of an important town role to scum, likely causing said investigator to be killed in the night or repeatedly blocked, preventing them from being useful. A town player claiming D1 prevents this from happening. If scum fakeclaim miller in their first post, it causes them to start fakeclaiming as early as possible, which means that they have to be consistent with that the whole game. Fakeclaims tend to be problematic over time, so the earlier scum makes one, the better it is for town. Secondly, claiming miller always gets a lot of attention and pressure, which is always good, especially when the person claiming miller is scum because scum generally want to avoid attention. I'm pretty sure that if we have an role cop of some form, they will be inspecting Tiruin tonight to see whether her claim holds up. The fact that an alignment cop is useless on miller doesn't really matter as much as you think because scumhunting should remain the primary method of finding scum, and there are other roles besides alignment cops that can be used to find scum.
Just an FYI, posting coded messages is considered cheating. We're not here to play the long con on cryptography. I don't want hash function roleclaims, because those claims tend to end in modkills.All I did was say something along the lines of "Curse you NQT: Why did you waste my time?" but you've made your point.
4maskwolf:I was not threatening him, but thank you for demonstrating how little you care about your vote usage.4maskwolf, quoting a small wall of text for no reason is bad forum etiquette, especially as you can't go back and edit it. This game already has and will have plenty of extremely long posts. Adding to it does not help. It is unhelpful to the game in general. Responding to someone's comment about it being unhelpful by being even more unhelpful and threatening doesn't help either.Do that again, and I will vote you for wasting everyone's time. That was NOT neccesary and you shouldn't have done it. You are obviously intelligent enough to trim the post into something resembling coherent, so I expect you to do so in the future. It wasn't cute. It wasn't funny. It was a waste of time and space. If you're going to make a wall of text, do it because you have something to say. Not because... Whyever you did it.You know the number of shits I give about people threatening me with votes? Zero. You heard me right. Zero. Go ahead, use your vote for no other reason than you hate my posting style. All it would serve to do is prove that you don't particularly care about your vote, that you don't see it as a valuable weapon for you. Which is not a good thing, mind you.
TolyK: Are you happy with your role? Did it live up to your expectations?Role is good. I'd prefer a more haywire one, but I'll have to think with this one at least. :P
Also, are you a schizophrenic?Me?
Flabort:1)Interesting.Toaster You get the same question Shakerag asked me. If you were offered the choice between arsonist or random role, which would you pick?
Arsonist. I've always wanted to be one, and it's a hilarious asshole role. The thought of getting a "Kill everyone" button really appeals to me.
Are any of the questions you asked advice on how to play your own role?I got permission to stay! I won't be absent at all it turns out. :D
Toaster Yeah it's a lot of post-atos. I bet that it's a lot to come to if you weren't there the whole time.
Not near as bad as I thought, though I'm only up to your post so far.
Have you been reading this thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=130326.0)?
Also, yeah, camping is awesome.
You addressed yourself. It was more or less a joke. :PAlso, are you a schizophrenic?Me?
As in me, or my role?
Then why didn't you ask me that? :PYou addressed yourself. It was more or less a joke. :PAlso, are you a schizophrenic?Me?
As in me, or my role?
ahem.You addressed yourself. It was more or less a joke. :PAlso, are you a schizophrenic?Me?
As in me, or my role?
Despite the origin of the term from the Greek roots skhizein ("to split") and phrēn ("mind"), schizophrenia does not imply a "split personality", or "multiple personality disorder"—a condition with which it is often confused in public perception.And no, I'm not schizophrenic. Just a horrible person.
Jack A T Mario is Busing Bowser. How does Princess Peach, who is Tiruin, react? As a Toad, how do you react?flabort: Sorry, I'm having trouble finding that stuff right now. Cannot answer.
Is there [size=18]anyone else[/size] who is unsure how their role fits in with the idea they sent?
Jack A T: Do you think Wuba's interpretation of your role is awesome? Good? Perfectly fine? Poor? Dismal?NQT and 4maskwolf: I shall answer these questions together.
so whoever feel like they have time to give opinion: What do you think is lying too much. Is saying your internet broke down to avoid answering question?Varee: Unless there is a good reason (paranoid gun owner fun, reaction testing...), lying is considered to be a rather strong scumtell. Even with good reasons, it rarely looks good. Claiming RL issues you don't have is in poor taste.
Cheeetar: I'll take it you don't much like my efforts to gain clarifications of an unclear miller claim, even with them done in a way that allows Tiruin to withhold sensitive information without conflict?Is your miller power one of those dependent on the number of players? What did Webadict say about you being a miller? Please tell us everything you're comfortable telling us about your milleriness.This, and other posts asking for information about Tiruin's role beyond that of being a miller- still scummy, even if you ask timidly.
4maskwolf: Alright. I tend to expect votes with reasons to be non-random, but it is early enough in the day that I can accept the vote as RVS-type stuff. Unvote.4maskwolf: Out of all of Cheeetar's lynch push, this is what you latch on to? The bit where he shows cluelessness about how the game works? Please explain how this specific part of Cheeetar's argument indicates scumhood.It's called a random vote. I was prying for more specifics on why Cheeetar believed that claiming miller after an investigation was a null tell but claiming before was a scumtell. I believe the exact opposite: claiming miller day one is a good idea in games. I see it as a null tell: I'll still lynch them if they act suspicious, but I won't put their lynch before anyone else's.
4maskwolf, quoting a small wall of text for no reason is bad forum etiquette, especially as you can't go back and edit it. This game already has and will have plenty of extremely long posts. Adding to it does not help. It is unhelpful to the game in general. Responding to someone's comment about it being unhelpful by being even more unhelpful and threatening doesn't help either.Persus13: Alright, I understand that you haven't read a significant part of the thread, and thus are unaware of the votes already on 4maskwolf and of his use of an iPod to play. However, this is still an astoundingly lazy vote. You're largely repeating Nerjin's complaint about 4mask not cutting his quotes enough, and your addition (that his response to Nerjin's threats was unhelpful) does little to make voting for 4mask a good idea.
ToasterNQT: What does the unpredictable nature of a BYOR do to your analytical hunting style?Ask me this again on Day 3. I have an answer but if I tell you now, scum might change their behaviour accordingly.
Toaster: What in particular appeals to you about the arsonist?
My role is quite loosely tied to what I sent in, but generally unified by a common theme. My general flavour, which is weakly tied to the thing I sent in, tells me what my role was basically built around. One of my powers does not fit my general flavour, and is barely tied to the thing I sent in, but at least in flavour it fits the wider field my general flavour puts me in.The pains of being an artiste!
Basically, Wuba's interpretation of what I sent in is a bit odd, and doesn't fully fit together, but I can sort of see how he came to make it like that.
Is there anyone else who is unsure how their role fits in with the idea they sent?Didn't see this question earlier. I'm a tad confused how the night ability fits, but I'm quite happy with how it works, so I have no complaints.
That's fine, I'm just pleased you remember what I was referring to.Jack A T Mario is Busing Bowser. How does Princess Peach, who is Tiruin, react? As a Toad, how do you react?flabort: Sorry, I'm having trouble finding that stuff right now. Cannot answer.
Flabort: 3) I had only read up to the post you asked me that as of the time I typed the answer. All caught up now, and it still wasn't too bad.3) OK. That's good.
4) Ah. Potatoes are heavily involved later.
5) It's not really camping if there are 300+ people.
Is there anyone else who is unsure how their role fits in with the idea they sent?My powers and autos and stuff seem to fit perfectly with the role, but my role wasn't exactly the hardest one to work with.
Err, I should done my clarifications. I was staring at your note to Jack A T here, (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5553774#msg5553774) using a time-honored tradition of referencing Mario.flabort: Why do you use intricate methods of analogy in questions to certain people? Is it a shift of viewpoint or is there something up with your wording there?I can't say I'm entirely sure what you mean. Could you point out where I used analogy (besides Jack, and it's more reaction test than analogy there)?
pfp
What questions, Tiruin? What was left unanswered?
OK Cheet. I usually do, but I might not as I'm pretty busy at the moment.
Interesting Toly. Do you have any questions for me?
[...]
And I do see my question on why you're asking it not yet answered, NQT
>QuoteIt is Unlucky.
Why do you care so much about it? Got an ability or tag to inspect it? Go bloody ahead.
[...]Are you making the notice that you may have something attached to the names of things more obvious or what? That is a valid ability seen before, by the way.
:c4maskwolf: Right, this is where I bring that question back again. In the situation of being chided or seemingly being faced with abrasiveness, do you think it is better to act proactively or act reactively? As in, the former being a response which is calm and collected versus the response that lies with emotions and has more 'impact' in a sense?Heh, the question looked bigger on my ipod. Which is better? Calm and collected. Which am I likely to do? Emotional.
That was my joke :PTHE PACIFIC OCEAN
Tsunami (one-shot) - blah blah
Considering Tiruin lives in an area where Pacific tsunamis are a legitimate concern, I'd say that was the inappropriate one.
Tiruin: What do you believe is the biggest scumtell on day one? Does the biggest scumtell change as the days progress?I believe the biggest scumtell is that which carries over to the proceeding days--no game is won in a day and in D1 the information just begins to seep. I speak this in a general way because of the...err, 'interval' approach I look at scumtells at D1.
No you ain't. :IQuote from: wikipediaDespite the origin of the term from the Greek roots skhizein ("to split") and phrēn ("mind"), schizophrenia does not imply a "split personality", or "multiple personality disorder"—a condition with which it is often confused in public perception.And no, I'm not schizophrenic. Just a horrible person.
Flabort: Why in all flavor of damnation did you avoid camping?PPE:4maskwolf:I was not threatening him, but thank you for demonstrating how little you care about your vote usage.4maskwolf, quoting a small wall of text for no reason is bad forum etiquette, especially as you can't go back and edit it. This game already has and will have plenty of extremely long posts. Adding to it does not help. It is unhelpful to the game in general. Responding to someone's comment about it being unhelpful by being even more unhelpful and threatening doesn't help either.Do that again, and I will vote you for wasting everyone's time. That was NOT neccesary and you shouldn't have done it. You are obviously intelligent enough to trim the post into something resembling coherent, so I expect you to do so in the future. It wasn't cute. It wasn't funny. It was a waste of time and space. If you're going to make a wall of text, do it because you have something to say. Not because... Whyever you did it.You know the number of shits I give about people threatening me with votes? Zero. You heard me right. Zero. Go ahead, use your vote for no other reason than you hate my posting style. All it would serve to do is prove that you don't particularly care about your vote, that you don't see it as a valuable weapon for you. Which is not a good thing, mind you.
All it would serve to do is prove that you don't particularly care about your vote, that you don't see it as a valuable weapon for you. Which is not a good thing, mind you.Those weren't meant as a threat?
Use your vote in a manner that is in accordance with the needs of the town.
Persus13: You have replaced in numerous times for various people in mafia games. Do you believe there is anything good about replacing in that you wouldn't get by starting in the game?You get to avoid D1, and often get to experience a fresh start while other people have scummy things they've already said, so you can focus less on defending yourself and more on scumhunting.
For the record, I have read the entire thread, and I haven't seen anywhere where 4maskwolf said he was on an iPod. Regardless, that is irrelevant to the present discussion.4maskwolf, quoting a small wall of text for no reason is bad forum etiquette, especially as you can't go back and edit it. This game already has and will have plenty of extremely long posts. Adding to it does not help. It is unhelpful to the game in general. Responding to someone's comment about it being unhelpful by being even more unhelpful and threatening doesn't help either.Persus13: Alright, I understand that you haven't read a significant part of the thread, and thus are unaware of the votes already on 4maskwolf and of his use of an iPod to play. However, this is still an astoundingly lazy vote. You're largely repeating Nerjin's complaint about 4mask not cutting his quotes enough, and your addition (that his response to Nerjin's threats was unhelpful) does little to make voting for 4mask a good idea.
Please explain, in detail, how 4maskwolf's poor etiquette in posting a longer post than necessary and how 4mask's response to Nerjin threatening to vote him for poor etiquette indicate scumhood.
Jack A TWould be weird to say he's pretty much a lyncher due to the way he positioned and worded his curiosity regarding the claim in question. While I'd say its intriguing to know (I'm biased a bit in checking Cheetar out as a vet, too), that's one of the main reasons I unvoted him (as an extra since this'll come up later anyway though I'm too tired to connect it to othe rpertinent ideas in my thoughts right now)[...]For the record, I have read the entire thread, and I haven't seen anywhere where 4maskwolf said he was on an iPod. Regardless, that is irrelevant to the present discussion.
Please explain, in detail, how 4maskwolf's poor etiquette in posting a longer post than necessary and how 4mask's response to Nerjin threatening to vote him for poor etiquette indicate scumhood.
Here's my explanation. Currently 4maskwolf is the scummiest player for his response to Nerjin. The only other player I find scummy currently, is Cheeetar, because up until he voted Jiokuy, I was convinced he was a Lyncher due to his focus on[...] lynching Tiruin and pushing for that lynch instead of doing any scumhunting. Now he's started scumhunting, so my suspicions of him are somewhat lessened.
Those weren't meant as a threat?It was a warning about how it would be perceived.
Also, your accusing me of not caring about how I use my vote, and your voting flabort for not liking camping?
Anyway, I think 4maskwolf is scummy because of the way he reacted to Nerjin voting him. The right response would have been to apologize for reposting an entire giant post and drop the matter. Instead he reacted extremely defensively for no reason, swearing at Nerjin and basically telling Nerjin that if you vote me I will try and lynch you for it. 4maskwolf had no reason to repost that giant post of flabort's and it was at worst an inconvenience, so 4maskwolf's reactionary and ridiculous defensiveness is uncharacteristic and unnecessary, especially as last I checked, you were the only one voting him.Nerjin never voted me, in case you didn't notice. What I said was "I don't care if you vote me". How is that scummy, precisely? I also did not threaten him or tell him I would lynch him: I was telling him to find better grounds for a lynch or look elsewhere, because voting someone on shaky grounds like that is extremely scummy. You have blatantly misinterpreted my post to the point where I'm not sure it's possible for it to be an accident, Persus13.
I'm not that invested in staying alive this game, so in the absence of other tells, I offer myself as tribute.
So aside from being incredibly rude towards other players and semi-active lurking [he has made several posts recently that contain little to nothing of value inside of them.], His voting of Flabort for no real reason, he also doesn’t care about remaining alive to help town. Perhaps it is foolish to expect someone on their way out to commit. But if you don’t care about being alive, why should we 4mask?*shrugs*
Also, CanLII?Tiruin: Forgot to answer this, sorry. CanLII. (https://www.canlii.org/en/) I read stuff.
For the record, I have read the entire thread, and I haven't seen anywhere where 4maskwolf said he was on an iPod. Regardless, that is irrelevant to the present discussion.Persus13: Thank you for the clear and detailed response.
Here's my explanation. Currently 4maskwolf is the scummiest player for his response to Nerjin. The only other player I find scummy currently, is Cheeetar, because up until he voted Jiokuy, I was convinced he was a Lyncher due to his focus on lynching Tiruin and pushing for that lynch instead of doing any scumhunting. Now he's started scumhunting, so my suspicions of him are somewhat lessened.
Anyway, I think 4maskwolf is scummy because of the way he reacted to Nerjin voting him. The right response would have been to apologize for reposting an entire giant post and drop the matter. Instead he reacted extremely defensively for no reason, swearing at Nerjin and basically telling Nerjin that if you vote me I will try and lynch you for it. 4maskwolf had no reason to repost that giant post of flabort's and it was at worst an inconvenience, so 4maskwolf's reactionary and ridiculous defensiveness is uncharacteristic and unnecessary, especially as last I checked, you were the only one voting him.
Also, thanks for getting me to clarify that, I needed to figure out why I thought something was off with that.
You shouldn't care about me being alive. Nobody but me knows my alignment, I could be anti-town for all you know. If you really want to lynch me, feel free.4maskwolf: What are you even doing?
Shakerag: Does your role name start with "The BYOR 13 Role that" again?I am nothing if not a creature of habits.
I haven't really played with you all that much. What is your favorite part of Wuba's BYORs.Seeing what he comes up with when I submit another "The BYOR ## Role That ..."
Shakerag What "shakeragian" role would you recommend for each player, based on what you know of those players?Are you seriously asking me to come up with 16 roles for your amusement?
Shakerag:So you're saying that you'd benefit from being a target? That's interesting to know. No, I don't think your pre-game banter is useful, although your responses to it now may be.Imp: Do you think your pre-game banter will make you more of a target now?
It might, which could be useful. Do you view my pre-game banter as useful or meaningful to you?
Shakerag:Note that I didn't say 'read it', because I can't.
If you want to read it, copy/paste it into notepad or something, or just quote the post. Since you probably knew of at least both of those options, why'd you claim you couldn't read Tiruin's tinywrite?
To be honest I'm not familiar enough with either of them anymore. Well, I think I'm still reasonably familiar with Tiruin, but her posts tend to make my head hurt. :PYou wound me, IO. But I do agree with you in regards to Tiruin.
Shakerag: Has your role screwed everyone over yet? If not, when will it?You, too, wound me, Jack. While I would find it hilarious if my role could screw everyone over, I doubt webadict would allow things to be that unbalanced. As for the rest, you can take your role-fishing attempts elsewhere.
Ow-tato! Stop that. Stop poking your Jester's stick into my trillions of eyes!So aside from being incredibly rude towards other players and semi-active lurking [he has made several posts recently that contain little to nothing of value inside of them.], His voting of Flabort for no real reason, he also doesn’t care about remaining alive to help town. Perhaps it is foolish to expect someone on their way out to commit. But if you don’t care about being alive, why should we 4mask?*shrugs*
You shouldn't care about me being alive. Nobody but me knows my alignment, I could be anti-town for all you know. If you really want to lynch me, feel free.
1) Because I was prepared to BE a PFP Player, and I wanted to know if he was they type to lynch someone over it. I mercifully don't have to go now, so I won't be, but I wanted to know..Spoiler: Flabort (click to show/hide)
flabort:Actually, I'm asking you to think of what you know about each player, and come up with an answer based on that. Though I added the roles part for my amusement, yes, the question is less about the roles and more about the players.Shakerag What "shakeragian" role would you recommend for each player, based on what you know of those players?Are you seriously asking me to come up with 16 roles for your amusement?
Why would you want me to spend my time on something like that rather than paying attention to the game and finding scum?
Also, PFP can mean "posting from profession" which is pretty much what I use PFP for.
Persus13: Thank you for the clear and detailed response.Thanks for providing the other vote. Votes have been flying thick and fast, so it's hard to keep track of who is voting who.
On votes for 4mask: NQT was also voting for Wolf. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5554326#msg5554326)
You state that the "right response" to Nerjin's post would have been purely apologetic and would have involved dropping the issue, and that 4maskwolf was needlessly and ridiculously defensive/aggressive. I have a couple questions:
*Does the fact that Nerjin explicitly threatened to vote to lynch 4maskwolf for poor etiquette alone have any impact on the "right response" to Nerjin's complaints?
*Aside from your view of 4maskwolf's response as excessively defensive, what do you think of 4mask's argument that voting him for etiquette reasons is a bad idea and worthy of a vote?
Persus13: Are you willing to lynch a person for posting in an annoying manner as the only reason?No. Lynching someone for being annoying, excessively defensive indicating that they could be hiding something, and not scumhunting? Well, it's still early D1, so I'd like to gather more evidence first, although it does seem from his other posts that 4maskwolf is just being uncharacteristically grouchy and unhelpful.
Me? I'm telling the truth. You all don't know what my alignment is, be it town or scum or whatever: true. As such, there is no particular incentive to keep me alive over anyone else. This goes for everyone: currently, there is no particular reason to keep any given person alive because only they (and their scum buddies, should they have them) know who they are.You shouldn't care about me being alive. Nobody but me knows my alignment, I could be anti-town for all you know. If you really want to lynch me, feel free.4maskwolf: What are you even doing?
Ow-tato! Stop that. Stop poking your Jester's stick into my trillions of eyes!Lolz you actually think I'm a jester?
ImpMmm...fascinated =/= overfocused?Imp: Welcome back! What did you learn in your absence that's applicable to Mafia?
I'm no longer fascinated by Mafia. Still interested, but not all gung ho.
So lots of related similar game experiences but no longer overfocused on the game.
I'm a bit confused by the terms but I associate fascinated = interested//something good. :x
What do you mean by fascinated? Did it become...bad?
so whoever feel like they have time to give opinion: What do you think is lying too much. Is saying your internet broke down to avoid answering question?
Imp: What do you believe is the best survivor strategy?Flexibility and responsiveness.
So you're saying that you'd benefit from being a target? That's interesting to know. No, I don't think your pre-game banter is useful, although your responses to it now may be.
Actually, I'm asking you to think of what you know about each player, and come up with an answer based on that. Though I added the roles part for my amusement, yes, the question is less about the roles and more about the players.... ... ... okay, fine, whatever.
It seems like you're trying to get yourself lynched. Which is a huge jester tell, because that's what jesters DO.Ow-tato! Stop that. Stop poking your Jester's stick into my trillions of eyes!Lolz you actually think I'm a jester?
I will make a note that I am possibly the worst person you could have asked a "what do you know about each player" question to.What? You want me to ask someone who's GOOD at answering the question? It's not a "hard question" if it's asked to someone who can answer it easily. Asking the people who have trouble answering yields more data per weight than asking someone who has a pre-fabricated answer.
So why aren't you asking me anything @__@I will make a note that I am possibly the worst person you could have asked a "what do you know about each player" question to.What? You want me to ask someone who's GOOD at answering the question? It's not a "hard question" if it's asked to someone who can answer it easily. Asking the people who have trouble answering yields more data per weight than asking someone who has a pre-fabricated answer.
I'm quite satisfied with your answer.
So why aren't you asking me anything @__@But I did, and you answered.
PFP
Cheetar:
If you were a town miller, what would you do?
Cheeetar: Why do you believe that preemptive measures are a scumtell?
Cheeetar: I'll take it you don't much like my efforts to gain clarifications of an unclear miller claim, even with them done in a way that allows Tiruin to withhold sensitive information without conflict?Is your miller power one of those dependent on the number of players? What did Webadict say about you being a miller? Please tell us everything you're comfortable telling us about your milleriness.This, and other posts asking for information about Tiruin's role beyond that of being a miller- still scummy, even if you ask timidly.
4maskwolf: Alright. I tend to expect votes with reasons to be non-random, but it is early enough in the day that I can accept the vote as RVS-type stuff. Unvote.4maskwolf: Out of all of Cheeetar's lynch push, this is what you latch on to? The bit where he shows cluelessness about how the game works? Please explain how this specific part of Cheeetar's argument indicates scumhood.It's called a random vote. I was prying for more specifics on why Cheeetar believed that claiming miller after an investigation was a null tell but claiming before was a scumtell. I believe the exact opposite: claiming miller day one is a good idea in games. I see it as a null tell: I'll still lynch them if they act suspicious, but I won't put their lynch before anyone else's.4maskwolf, quoting a small wall of text for no reason is bad forum etiquette, especially as you can't go back and edit it. This game already has and will have plenty of extremely long posts. Adding to it does not help. It is unhelpful to the game in general. Responding to someone's comment about it being unhelpful by being even more unhelpful and threatening doesn't help either.Persus13: Alright, I understand that you haven't read a significant part of the thread, and thus are unaware of the votes already on 4maskwolf and of his use of an iPod to play. However, this is still an astoundingly lazy vote. You're largely repeating Nerjin's complaint about 4mask not cutting his quotes enough, and your addition (that his response to Nerjin's threats was unhelpful) does little to make voting for 4mask a good idea.
Please explain, in detail, how 4maskwolf's poor etiquette in posting a longer post than necessary and how 4mask's response to Nerjin threatening to vote him for poor etiquette indicate scumhood.
Here's my explanation. Currently 4maskwolf is the scummiest player for his response to Nerjin. The only other player I find scummy currently, is Cheeetar, because up until he voted Jiokuy, I was convinced he was a Lyncher due to his focus on lynching Tiruin and pushing for that lynch instead of doing any scumhunting. Now he's started scumhunting, so my suspicions of him are somewhat lessened.
Jack A T:Shakerag: Alright. Not sure what "the rest" is in this case, as you answered both of my questions fully before the last comment.Shakerag: Has your role screwed everyone over yet? If not, when will it?You, too, wound me, Jack. While I would find it hilarious if my role could screw everyone over, I doubt webadict would allow things to be that unbalanced. As for the rest, you can take your role-fishing attempts elsewhere.
Persus13: Are you willing to lynch a person for posting in an annoying manner as the only reason?Are you willing to read the bit where Persus13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5555338#msg5555338) gives more reasons for his vote, including significant elements beyond 4mask posting in an annoying manner?
Yes, I don't. Regardless of how comfortable sharing they are, you should never ask for somebody to volunteer information about their role at such an early time. It's just role fishing, that's all it is.Cheeetar: "Never" is quite a strong word in Mafia. Do avoid allowing believed absolutes to block notice of situational issues.
This [the unvoting of 4maskwolf and voting of Persus13], Jack A T, is strange. In one unvote you forgive a RVS-type vote, and then immediately you're voting for Persus13 for what seems to be a RVS-type vote.I do not agree with your analysis. We appear to have very different views of what an RVS-type vote is. I view votes with actual reasons to be, unless otherwise indicated, non-RVS votes: they're not random. 4maskwolf's vote had a reason (making it seem to not be an RVS vote), but he indicated it was an RVSish vote and I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt. Persus13's vote has a reason (making it seem to not be an RVS vote), and he is seriously making a case. He is also not saying it was an RVS vote.
Varee: Do you think that being the newest player here (I think) will impede your play in any way? If so, how?
What would three questions be that you would feel tempted to claim 'my internet broke down' rather than answer?
What do you think of my answer to your question about lies?
How useful do you believe conversation is, compared to use of abilities? Do you use the conversation much in your play?
It kinda reminded me of a little horror game called Ib. With paintings, little girls, dolls... In short, it was creepy and if that's not you being creepy...*4maskwolf does a pitiful puppy face*Oh no, I can be far more creepy if I'm actually trying to be creepy.That's terrifying.
Silthuri: What do you feel is the most annoying type of third party, should it exist?Hmm... I'd just say the average SK that kills random people and creates chaos because it's not just scum killing.
Everyone: Have I ever "given up" in a mafia game you have seen me play, barring the over dramatized giving up post I made in Jack's BYOR when I was fakeclaiming martyr and my first two games (my first BM and Wuba's last game)?Not that I've seen.
Silthuri: You've been around about as long as I have, right? What is your favorite game of mafia you have played in so far?I think our first game was Tiruin's Court of Colors BM, yes? We kinda got here at about the same time.
Silthuri if you had the ability to intercept any actions targeting someone, and have them affect you, based off initial impressions who would you intercept for?I'd probably just not intercept for anyone. I'm unsure about everyone at this point.
SilthuriNope. I was saying that while I have the least experience with third parties, I still like playing as one. And I've been third party twice. Forgot GBU...Nope. I like playing as all alignments. I've only been third party once where I replaced in to die, and even that was kinda fun.Are you implying that you're a third-party?
Silthuri, when would you bus an ally as scum? Would that answer change as the game progressed?I'd bus them if they were a lost cause in order to make myself look more town but only as a last resort. This answer probably wouldn't change as the game goes on.
Silthuri I would better know as... MOWE? I know I should remember more of her than I do, so into the unknown bin she goes.I'm naturally inconspicuous. I'm always in the unknown bin...
Everybody, do you think a claimed miller lynch would be the best choice on Day 1, in the absence of any strong scumtells, or would a more random vote work better?If we have no other direction to go in, it would be an alright choice in case they're throwing out miller as an excuse to come up scum to inspects. As 4mask said though, that's kinda cruel to the miller if they are indeed just a miller. Besides. This is Tiruin's first miller experience apparently. I'm willing to believe she's actually a miller. For now.
Nerjin: So you're the President from Fallout 3? Are you roleplaying it excessively so I can't catch you in a lie?O__o
Nerjin: So you're the President from Fallout 3? Are you roleplaying it excessively so I can't catch you in a lie?
I'm really not sure whether 4mask is genuinely sick of Mafia at this point, or just a jester. I'm having trouble seeing his behaviour as helpful to the town though.4mask seems to be playing games. Probably ones related to scum hunting, but that's less sure.
TolyK: Did you replace Jiokuy? Have I been voting for somebody who is actually no longer playing the game?
Also, Nerjin is a third party, pretty sure. Otherwise he just has a post restriction that doesn't allow him to say that he has a post restriction.
Imp: I find your response to Varee's question (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5555619#msg5555619) interesting, largely for the pragmatism and the lack of comments about etiquette. Do you believe there to be any situations in which you would feel comfortable lying about your real life circumstances for an advantage?
Banter. I thought you were trying to (heh) role play something creepy.4maskwolf: You're playing a creepy role, aren't you? Betcha mine is creepier.nope. You're wrong about my role.
Your's would be, naturally. It's hard to get any less creepy than my role.
Scripten: Why the role question right off of the bat?
Okay, at this juncture, I really should clarify that my vote was still RVS. I just prefer my RVS votes to have SOME sort of game-related justification. Though, I appreciate the more in-depth examination of theory.You state your vote was RVS, and that you want your RVS votes to have a game-related justification, and that you appreciate the examination of theory.
Also, all this role playing is quite fun. I hadn't been in a BYOR until now, so it's a nice change.
Tolyk:Gut feeling. Don't tell me gut feeling isn't which to be pretty sure about something, but knowing Wuba rules and roles, along with how Nerjin is responding to questions about his restriction, those seem most logical assumptions to me.Also, Nerjin is a third party, pretty sure. Otherwise he just has a post restriction that doesn't allow him to say that he has a post restriction.
What are you seeing in Nerjin's responses that leads you to be pretty sure he is third party?
My powers are based on the # of people alive!
Also I haven't heard or seen the acronym PFP before, and it doesn't come up on google as anything interesting. It means posting from phone, right, and it isn't some sort of way Webadict has given you of identifying yourselves to each other?
PFP - Bad net.
Hey Cheeetar, this just caught my eye.Also I haven't heard or seen the acronym PFP before, and it doesn't come up on google as anything interesting. It means posting from phone, right, and it isn't some sort of way Webadict has given you of identifying yourselves to each other?
But PFP has been used in other games you've played in, while you were still alive. Here's one example, taken from the last BYOR, and it was used while you were still alive.PFP - Bad net.
PFP was used a good, 6 times or so in that BYOR. You serious that you just saw it now for the first time?
Also, Nerjin is a third party, pretty sure. Otherwise he just has a post restriction that doesn't allow him to say that he has a post restriction.
Who are your cabinet members?
Scripten: You've got some unanswered questions (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5553157#msg5553157) still, but I've got more for you again.
-snip-
At the time you posted your question to 4maskwolf, wolf had made only two (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5552275#msg5552275) posts (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5552285#msg5552285). What did you see in those two short posts that you interpreted as creepy roleplay? What role did you see him roleplaying as, and why did you offer a bet that yours was creepier?Okay, at this juncture, I really should clarify that my vote was still RVS. I just prefer my RVS votes to have SOME sort of game-related justification. Though, I appreciate the more in-depth examination of theory.You state your vote was RVS, and that you want your RVS votes to have a game-related justification, and that you appreciate the examination of theory.
Also, all this role playing is quite fun. I hadn't been in a BYOR until now, so it's a nice change.
Do you believe that stating that your vote is RVS weakens or strengthens it?
You haven't exactly been pressuring or questioning except with your vote and you haven't been posting very much; are you satisfied with the effects you perceive that your play has so far?
Scripten: I'm tempted to step on you, just in case. Do you intend to use much coded/hidden message stuff in your posts? What value do you see in placing hidden messages in your words?Also, all this role playing is quite fun.[/abbr]
Since you say you like the RP going on, do you intend instead to join it more directly, or is it something you'd rather observe?
I already answered that:[...]
And I do see my question on why you're asking it not yet answered, NQT
>QuoteIt is Unlucky.
Why do you care so much about it? Got an ability or tag to inspect it? Go bloody ahead.
[...]Are you making the notice that you may have something attached to the names of things more obvious or what? That is a valid ability seen before, by the way.
I haven't got any power related to ability names or anything like that.Got an ability or tag to inspect it?No
William Shatner?Not. even. close.
notquitethere: How is your spreadsheet going?As I said to Imp, I don't bother with that usually until seeing if I survive until Day 2. Are you making any kinds of notes?
Scripten, did you deliberately pick a creepy role hoping to get creepy powers?
Tiruin:...I didn't think it would hurt me telling it (since I'm being asked about ability names anyway)...My mind went on a silly tangent.My powers are based on the # of people alive!
Why did you tell us this?
Also, Nerjin is a third party, pretty sure. Otherwise he just has a post restriction that doesn't allow him to say that he has a post restriction.You say this like its a 'pretty sure' "fact". Something ping your radar there?
Who are your cabinet members?
Firstly, regarding 4maskwolf's posts, this is what jumped to mind immediately:Oh you too?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spud if his role is based on something in real life, it's barely creepy at all!Oh come on. Calories? Starch?
I mean, sure, ocean life can be creepy, spiders can be creepy, but potatoes are among the most creepy things on the internet.
Tiruin, you can say "I don't want to answer this" and that would be fine, but I'm curious to know: do you get more powerful with fewer players alive, or less powerful?. . .
Wuba, could we get a prod on Jiokuy?I suppose, but he might live far away from me, and I don't know where he lives.
Nerjin: Can you explain how flabort's question to Cheeetar about PFP players is irrelevant enough to the game, compared to the average RVS question, that you felt it was necessary to take a shot at him for?Also, what do you think 4mask is?
As a side note, I fully understood flabort's question to me (it's based on an odd private conversation the two of us had a while back in which we ended up coming up with roles for Mario characters). With that information added, do you still see it as irrelevant?
Please explain how Persus13's vote appears to be an RVS vote.Imp: Alright. You designed your answer to Varee to best influence him based on impressions you got from his post. Do you continue to get these impressions from Varee?
notquitethere: A while back, you asked (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5554123#msg5554123) if there was anyone other than Tiruin who was unsure of how their role fit with their submission. What effect has the set of answers you've received had on your view of this game?It made me see that Tiruin wasn't the only one to have a role that had been interpreted in a way that wasn't immediately clear to them. Part of why I eased off on that line of attack (but mainly because Tiruin's bafflements seemed to flow from genuine uncertainty and the post after she got clarification from Wuba seemed genuine).
flabort: You indicated that you think 4maskwolf is a jester. What do you believe is the best way to deal with jesters? In addition, you are voting for Cheeetar. Your last interaction with him was a while back (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5552992#msg5552992). Do you believe Cheeetar is scum? If so, why aren't you trying to strengthen your case? If you don't think he's scum, why are you voting for him?I'd forgot I had that vote on him. And I guess he's been thoroughly corrected on how a miller works, so I guess there's no reason to leave it on him.
he's not doing all that much, which seems unusual for him.Ahahaha! Someone who knows more about what I do than I do!
notquitethere If you were a self-doctor, would you always doctor yourself? What situations would you protect someone else in?I'd pretty much protect myself every time unless I had compelling reason to believe a confirmed town player was going to be night killed. For instance, if a cop claimed and that claim got scum lynched that day, the following night I'd protect the cop instead of myself. Curious as all this, do you think this answer would have been different if I'd have been mafia or 3rd party?
IronyOwl: Would you rather have a one-shot full rolecop or a regular doc ability?Regular Doc. A one-shot rolecop can prevent us from lynching someone who was useless anyway, or be held onto so I have it with me when I die. Trust me, I'm a potion hoarder, I know how these things go.
so whoever feel like they have time to give opinion: What do you think is lying too much. Is saying your internet broke down to avoid answering question?How much lying were you intending to do this game?
Any particular reason to believe you're telling the truth about it, then?Particular-...What?
IronyOwlHm. Usually attitude and wording, more specifically behaviors that seem like they're lazy or disingenuous.
Black or white morality, how do you see that in terms of a Mafia game?
Meaning: What do you base your judgement of seeing someone as scummy by? Their attitude, wording, emotional-attachment...?
Alright. Given the resolution of my suspicions, I'll unvote Tiruin.What exactly was the resolution of your suspicions? I seem to have missed the point where you stopped saying "Tiruin is dangerous or scum let's lynch her" and started saying "Yeah I don't really believe that anymore." What happened, exactly?
Warning - while you were reading 80 new replies have been posted. I think I win?Mother of God.
IronyOwl: If you were a watcher, what types of powers would you want in order to accomplish your wincon.The obvious and presumably overpowered- something to keep me alive.
4mask:Also this, (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=119041.msg3922643#msg3922643) which I can't believe was from a different game.Toaster: What in particular appeals to you about the arsonist?3) This. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63487.msg1554852#msg1554852)
Hm.Probably.
I'm probably paranoid, but you should probably refrain from saying any variant of the P-word around Flabort.
IronyOwl What kinds of common scum strategies (such as bussing or fake-cop) are you most expecting to see? Least expecting to see?Most? Late-game fakeclaims. Least? Early-game fakeclaims. In a game this big and power-heavy, everything is likely to go to hell for everyone, which makes intricate scum plans even riskier and more difficult to pull off than normal.
Nerjin: Please answer my questions:Nerjin: Can you explain how flabort's question to Cheeetar about PFP players is irrelevant enough to the game, compared to the average RVS question, that you felt it was necessary to take a shot at him for?Also, what do you think 4mask is?
As a side note, I fully understood flabort's question to me (it's based on an odd private conversation the two of us had a while back in which we ended up coming up with roles for Mario characters). With that information added, do you still see it as irrelevant?
*Nerjin: Is not my head of state. Buried underneath his AMERICAN PATRIOTIC FERVOR is some content (best seen here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5555371#msg5555371)). Did snap at 4maskwolf for his needlessly long post, and threaten to vote to lynch 4mask, but did so out of character. I get the feeling that that move was out of rage. Neutral read.
Nerjin Is your role that of a specific President? Which President? Who is the Vice President?
I think it does. Reading the opening post Webadict specifically spells out thirteen alignments, including a number of third-party ones with names for each. I think the result of an investigation probably says the name of such.
This is, I realise, making the assumption that an alignment cop's investigation returns the victory condition. If they're just told it's a third party... I'd say they should probably still claim on it if there are no real leads, but it's less of a sure thing than a scum result.
Right. I propose the theory that if Nerjin does indeed have a post restriction, which I'm doubting but think it's possible, then anything that is a "matter of national security" is something he can't talk about.Nerjin Is your role that of a specific President? Which President? Who is the Vice President?
My role is me. I am your President as I have no doubt mentioned before. As for which President? As I've said before it is a matter of national security. I cannot divulge the information. As for my Vice President? Well I'm afraid he is no longer with us.
@flabort Even though I live in a country (in)famous in Europe for being potatostan, I do not know any varieties of potatoes, not do I think anyone else knows) Why are you so after potatoes? Looking for the Irish?)Nope, not looking for anyone in particular. Well, maybe someone who I can trust, and looking for scum, but I'm not hunting the Irish, no.
Come to think of it, no it wouldn't have been.notquitethere If you were a self-doctor, would you always doctor yourself? What situations would you protect someone else in?I'd pretty much protect myself every time unless I had compelling reason to believe a confirmed town player was going to be night killed. For instance, if a cop claimed and that claim got scum lynched that day, the following night I'd protect the cop instead of myself. Curious as all this, do you think this answer would have been different if I'd have been mafia or 3rd party?
I seem to have done that thing where I chip through posts bit at a time, then get to the end and not really want to go back through the whole thing looking for questions and things of note. Oops.Hmm. That's probably what piqued Jack's radar, since I think that's what I was doing too.
flabort:IronyOwl What kinds of common scum strategies (such as bussing or fake-cop) are you most expecting to see? Least expecting to see?Most? Late-game fakeclaims. Least? Early-game fakeclaims. In a game this big and power-heavy, everything is likely to go to hell for everyone, which makes intricate scum plans even riskier and more difficult to pull off than normal.
Also lurking/active lurking. A game this big is just asking for scum to coast by.
Varee:so whoever feel like they have time to give opinion: What do you think is lying too much. Is saying your internet broke down to avoid answering question?How much lying were you intending to do this game?
Varee Who do you most suspect of having the ability to kill someone? Do you suspect those players of being scum?I have a feeling that alot of player will have one shot kill. thoses are not likely scum but it can just be as bad.
[size=78%]Varee, who is the most suspicious player in the game right now?I dont see anything "suspicious" as of yet. the miller debate is informative but dosent really tell much. Will just have to wait and see i guess
You'd be wrong. Normal inspects only return Town, Mafia, or Third Party. Special inspections can return varying results depending, but a normal inspects only returns three results.I think it does. Reading the opening post Webadict specifically spells out thirteen alignments, including a number of third-party ones with names for each. I think the result of an investigation probably says the name of such.
This is, I realise, making the assumption that an alignment cop's investigation returns the victory condition. If they're just told it's a third party... I'd say they should probably still claim on it if there are no real leads, but it's less of a sure thing than a scum result.
Scripten:Imp, Cheetar, & Shakerag: I haven't played or seen a game of mafia in which you've taken part, but you seem to be a regular around these parts. What's your strong suite; day or night game?Why don't you go back and read games that I've been in and formulate your own opinion, then?
How does one have a strong night game anyway? All you do is send in an action (or not).
Scripten How do you best make use of a multiple voting role?
TolyPrecisely because shooting from the hip. I don't have any good picks yet.
And so why aren't you voting anyone you might think is scum?
Imp, is this going to be one of those games where you post right at the end of each day?Dunno yet. Our day end comes during worktime for me, so if work's slow it could happen. When work's busy definitely won't happen.
Imp: Alright. You designed your answer to Varee to best influence him based on impressions you got from his post. Do you continue to get these impressions from Varee?No. I now think he asked
so whoever feel like they have time to give opinion: What do you think is lying too much. Is saying your internet broke down to avoid answering question?expecting to get the obvious answer, not because he was seriously asking about something he was unsure of for himself and deciding about.
OK. Let me clarify..... http://trollpasta.wikia.com/wiki/File:Scary-potato.jpg All I can think of in response to that.
These specific potatoes are among the creepiest things on the internet.
I'd forgot I had that vote on him. And I guess he's been thoroughly corrected on how a miller works, so I guess there's no reason to leave it on him.
I think the likelyhood of him being scum is a bit higher than average, a slight lean in that direction.
Imp What do you think of Nerjin's Role-tato Play? Is it too over the top?Nerjin started this RP early. Pre-game, even, he inned with it.
Hello my fellow Americins. This is your presidint, Nerjin. Signin off.I think Nerjin is a formulaic player; every game I've seen him in he has taken 'something' and pushed it pretty far. This is the first time I've seen direct RP be the 'something' for his play. Just the RP by itself, it's amusing and 'nice' to me; I actually enjoy it more than I do your potato puns, but I'm partial to effort and I don't mind reading; Nerjin's working a bit to make those posts.
I dont see anything "suspicious" as of yet....Will just have to wait and see i guessyou also answer IronyOwl's challenge in a way that seems appeasing. You say your plan to minimally lie is good, despite claiming
I dont know the threshold of lying in this forum yet.because of the way people answered your "question with one clearly correct answer" which makes that seem 'like a good plan'. You're actively trying, not to scum hunt - you don't even have any suspicions, you're not chasing to find any - you're actively trying to fit in and be liked. You're trying to answer IronyOwl's question in a way that makes you look good.
I dont know the threshold of lying in this forum yet. I think it is not so bad to fake noob as you are most likly to pull it off once and in that byor it was close to the end so i decide to do it.
so whoever feel like they have time to give opinion: What do you think is lying too much. Is saying your internet broke down to avoid answering question?
First thing is i need to sort though this 6 page of stuff that pop up when i sleep and 6 more when i return home..... then maybe i can start forming some question....
It is more of the go to bed and woke up to 4-5 new pages of stuff in the morning. Just the sheer amount of people in this game is giving me head ache. I have a feeling i wont be able to read every single post.
I personally not a conversation heavy guy. It might be the style i play before which is pretty much speed mafia. Also my limited interaction of posting like one or twice a day also impose a limit on my ability to use conversation effectively....but we've known we had 17 players in this game since July 27th.
Well, while I'm waiting on Jiokuy to show signs of life...eh. I don't really think the odds of me being lynched are all that high, seeing as how I think I have two votes on me right now.
4maskwolf: Do you think the most likely outcome of Day 1 is your lynch, given that you seem fairly resigned and 3 votes are on you? (3 of the 9 necessary is not that much, mind.)
If so: Do you have anything to say that will aid town upon your flip? Any suspicions we can reliably trust if you flip town or uninvolved third party?
If not: Who do you think is acting scummy- would you like to put your vote and scumhunting abilities to use?
snipSo it is bad to not vote people, not trying to ask question? It doesnt mean I dont care it is just that i dont know what to ask you guys. Most people put out like 15 null read and a few other read so i dont think am the only one without any specific target yet. Just because I complain about a lot of thing to read doesnt mean I wont read it. So Imp what do you really want me to do ? ask people more random question? or dig up more discussion about miller claim ?
4mask I think that OMGUS is almost just as bad as the reason Nerjin voted you. It seems petty to me.My only current lead is Nerjin's seeming uncaring nature towards where or why his vote is wielded. As such, I will vote following that.
Shakerag When is the appropriate time to be angry at a player? Should you post on Mafia while angry?When is the appropriate time? Whenever someone does something boneheaded.
flabort, why are you giving your role name away to people (slowly but surely)?Because it's fun.
flabort:I see. So when looking for mistakes, one should examine angry posts first?Shakerag When is the appropriate time to be angry at a player? Should you post on Mafia while angry?When is the appropriate time? Whenever someone does something boneheaded.
Should you post angry? I don't see why not. Sometimes that raw emotion can help persuade others. Of course, it can be easier to make mistakes when posting angry as well. So I suppose that's a bit of a double-edged sword.
I think when one is looking for mistakes one should analyze all posts, but anything with strong emotion in it should be carefully looked at. Whether you want to do that first or not is up to you, I suppose.flabort:I see. So when looking for mistakes, one should examine angry posts first?Shakerag When is the appropriate time to be angry at a player? Should you post on Mafia while angry?When is the appropriate time? Whenever someone does something boneheaded.
Should you post angry? I don't see why not. Sometimes that raw emotion can help persuade others. Of course, it can be easier to make mistakes when posting angry as well. So I suppose that's a bit of a double-edged sword.
Wait, advice on a mislynch target? That's not what that is!Oh, I don't think you're trying to lynch one of your scumbuddies. I think you're trying to mislynch some random townie. I just wonder why you want my advice over the advice of your scumbuddies. Shouldn't they be helping you figure out how to take an emotional reaction and turn it into a lynch?
It's getting a firm grasp of your level of skill, and learning from that.
I don't have any "buddies" that I care about. I'm not trying to drive the lynch away from anyone.
But then again, WIFOM, now you think I'm trying to get my buddies lynched.
Seriously, based on your comment, who would you assume my "buddies" are? I think most of the players have had an emotional reaction so far.
America
ToasterWilliam Shatner?Not. even. close.
Toaster, theory time now: does it matter for the town's chances of success who gets voted on Day 1?
Toaster I don't recall that you've been any more active than me. Is this due to the eye problems?
Shakerag When is the appropriate time to be angry at a player? Should you post on Mafia while angry?When is the appropriate time? Whenever someone does something boneheaded.
Should you post angry? I don't see why not. Sometimes that raw emotion can help persuade others. Of course, it can be easier to make mistakes when posting angry as well. So I suppose that's a bit of a double-edged sword.
flabort:Exactly. If I had Scumbuddies, they'd be helping me with that. Since their not, I don't.Wait, advice on a mislynch target? That's not what that is!Oh, I don't think you're trying to lynch one of your scumbuddies. I think you're trying to mislynch some random townie. I just wonder why you want my advice over the advice of your scumbuddies. Shouldn't they be helping you figure out how to take an emotional reaction and turn it into a lynch?
It's getting a firm grasp of your level of skill, and learning from that.
I don't have any "buddies" that I care about. I'm not trying to drive the lynch away from anyone.
But then again, WIFOM, now you think I'm trying to get my buddies lynched.
Seriously, based on your comment, who would you assume my "buddies" are? I think most of the players have had an emotional reaction so far.
Flabort:Yes, I do. It makes sure that I don't miss anyone and forget that someone exists, therefor letting me remember to evaluate that player, and get more information on each player. Even the nonsense questions garner information about the player, resulting in the philosophy that "More questions equals more results".Toaster I don't recall that you've been any more active than me. Is this due to the eye problems?
Until day-end Friday, yes. Over the weekend, that was procrastination on my part. Also, if I'm quiet this week before Friday, feel free to call me out over it. I'm good until then.
Do you see value in shooting off that many questions?
flabort:Exactly. If I had Scumbuddies, they'd be helping me with that. Since their not, I don't.Wait, advice on a mislynch target? That's not what that is!Oh, I don't think you're trying to lynch one of your scumbuddies. I think you're trying to mislynch some random townie. I just wonder why you want my advice over the advice of your scumbuddies. Shouldn't they be helping you figure out how to take an emotional reaction and turn it into a lynch?
It's getting a firm grasp of your level of skill, and learning from that.
I don't have any "buddies" that I care about. I'm not trying to drive the lynch away from anyone.
But then again, WIFOM, now you think I'm trying to get my buddies lynched.
Seriously, based on your comment, who would you assume my "buddies" are? I think most of the players have had an emotional reaction so far.
That's some nice WIFOM you're pouring there.It's impossible to answer the question without WIFOM (Actually, Vodka would be more appropriate than Wine). If I asked you why you weren't getting help from your scumbuddies about something, your answer would be the same.
Jack A T What BYORs have you participated in? Which BYOR was your favorite?flabort: Off the top of my head (this is probably an incomplete list), I've played in BYOR 6.3, BYOR 7 (my favorite), BYOR 11, Bring Someone Else's Role, Bring Your Own Historical Figure, Why Would You Do That?: A Mafia Misadventure, Bring Your Own Picture, Bring Your Own Picture 2, and Totem Mafia. I have run a BYOR as well.
My case on Cheeetar was entirely based on his misinterpretation of Miller, and how dense he was being over the matter. Now that he's changed his mind, I don't have a case. I still suspect him with my gut, but have no case whatsoever to vote him over.So, if you suspect him, and have for some time, and felt you didn't have enough evidence, why weren't you trying to gather more evidence and improve your read? You stopped interacting with him in the middle of the miller mess.
@nqt: Toaster 4mask Cheetar Irony. That good for you?TolyK: And why, if shooting from the hip, would you think they are scum? Anything specific of note about them?
Erp, sorry. Anyway- I see RVS votes as votes in Day 1 which have basically no reason. By no reason, I don't mean they can't attach a reason- just that if the reason is really silly, it might as well be no reason. For example, I see "I'm voting Varee because he likes oranges and only the scum like oranges" as more or less the same as "I'm voting 4maskwolf for being rude only the scum are rude."Cheeetar: Ah, we have very similar views of RVS votes. You just failed to take tone into account. There's a difference between the latter of those two "reasons" and the vote placed by Persus13: tone. He wasn't making a joke vote, and it showed. So I voted, and got him to explain his vote more. By the time you came in, even if you saw the initial vote as looking like RVS-type stuff, you should have noticed that Persus was trying to put together a case.
I dont see anything "suspicious" as of yet. the miller debate is informative but dosent really tell much. Will just have to wait and see i guessVaree: Might it be a better idea to try to dig for suspicious stuff? Ask questions and such?
Jack, your list of reads includes only 15 players, is your impression of Shakerag utterly null?Imp: I must have accidentally skipped over him on the list.
My scum pick right now is Nerjin, for threatening to vote me out of irritation over a single post. While I can understand his frustration, threatening a vote over a minor nuisance like that is beyond what I would expect from someone.4maskwolf: An interesting move, but not an impressive one. What makes scum more likely than town to do what Nerjin did? Where's the advantage to scum?
UnvoteShakerag: Alright, you've abandoned your Persus vote. Why?
I think it is more likely scum than town because the scum don't care who they use their vote on, as long as someone not-them gets lynched, while the town would want to ensure their lynch is a scum. There isn't a particular advantage to the scum, other than they get to use their vote and seem active.My scum pick right now is Nerjin, for threatening to vote me out of irritation over a single post. While I can understand his frustration, threatening a vote over a minor nuisance like that is beyond what I would expect from someone.4maskwolf: An interesting move, but not an impressive one. What makes scum more likely than town to do what Nerjin did? Where's the advantage to scum?
Nerjin:America
When are you up for reelection? Have you reached your term limit? Who do you suspect of being a terrorist?
What benefit do you find in your politician-speak obfuscating your posts?
Nerjin "Why aren't your buddies helping you disprove doubt about any post restrictions?"
I think it is more likely scum than town because the scum don't care who they use their vote on, as long as someone not-them gets lynched, while the town would want to ensure their lynch is a scum. There isn't a particular advantage to the scum, other than they get to use their vote and seem active.My scum pick right now is Nerjin, for threatening to vote me out of irritation over a single post. While I can understand his frustration, threatening a vote over a minor nuisance like that is beyond what I would expect from someone.4maskwolf: An interesting move, but not an impressive one. What makes scum more likely than town to do what Nerjin did? Where's the advantage to scum?
You shouldn't care about me being alive. Nobody but me knows my alignment, I could be anti-town for all you know. If you really want to lynch me, feel free.
Do you expect to get a third party role from your Shakerag© submissions?Honestly? I never know what alignment I'm going to get. Nor do I really anticipate a certain alignment from my submissions. My expectations are just for something novel and creative, really.
Exactly. If I had Scumbuddies, they'd be helping me with that. Since their not, I don't.While Toaster beat me to the punch, I feel obligated to say "that's exactly what scum would say".
Shakerag "Why aren't your buddies helping you mislynch me?"I am noting you dropped the "scum" off of buddies. Hard to call someone else scum when you know you're the scum, right?
Shakerag: Alright, you've abandoned your Persus vote. Why?It was just a reaction vote. As in, I was wanting to see how he'd react to being voted. Also, found a better location for my vote.
flabort:Touche. That is not the vibe I meant to give off, but I don't have scumbuddies, helpful or not.Exactly. If I had Scumbuddies, they'd be helping me with that. Since their not, I don't.While Toaster beat me to the punch, I feel obligated to say "that's exactly what scum would say".
Also, your first clause isn't logical (as scumbuddies are not obligated to help each other), and your second clause, restated, is "because my scumbuddies are not helping me, therefore they must not exist".
Smells kind of "begging the question"-ish to me, and it looks like you're admitting that you have unhelpful scumbuddies.
Quicker to type. I did mean "your scumbuddies". But I was hungry and wanted to eat.Shakerag "Why aren't your buddies helping you mislynch me?"I am noting you dropped the "scum" off of buddies. Hard to call someone else scum when you know you're the scum, right?
To directly answer your question: I'm not knowingly setting up a mislynch, and I furthermore do not have any buddies to my knowledge.
Damn anti-federalists...Ah, very true. The debt generated by Idaho is very low, making it one of the more profitable states for the country to keep around.
Also, Idaho. Mr. President must know that Idaho is important.
Just skimmed through the pages of posts for the questions addressed to me. I'll go back through everything again on Sunday. Apologies if I missed anything.
Imp: Nope, not that potato. Though you're getting closer. I did grab my role from a wiki.
Yeah, I tend to think I've voted at the start when I haven't, and tend to forget who I've voted for. Which is why I pay close attention to when vote-counts are posted, usually.
My case on Cheeetar was entirely based on his misinterpretation of Miller, and how dense he was being over the matter. Now that he's changed his mind, I don't have a case. I still suspect him with my gut, but have no case whatsoever to vote him over.
I agree with you opinion that Nerjin's posts should contain more content per RP. I'm sad that you don't enjoy puntatos, but they are my own version of RP.
And that's a good answer. Unvote
Varee I wouldn't say it's bad not to vote, as long as you eventually do; by this point in the day, most players should have voted someone once, but don't necessarily have had to if they've been scum-hunting well. It's the not-asking-questions part that bugs me. I think you should try even if you just ask nonsense.
That is not the vibe I meant to give offOf course you didn't mean to, because you are trying to look town. Even though you're not.
So Imp what do you really want me to do ?Do what you (hopefully) want to do, chase your Wincon. Right now you're chasing 'don't target me' and 'I want to fit in'.
So it is bad to not vote people, not trying to ask question? It doesnt mean I dont care it is just that i dont know what to ask you guys. i dont think am the only one without any specific target yet.
Just because I complain about a lot of thing to read doesnt mean I wont read it."doesnt mean I wont read it" (that implies future tense, you have not read most of the thread yet but will) or "doesnt mean I haven't read it" (which implies past tense, that you already have read the thread)?
ask people more random question? or dig up more discussion about miller claim ?Hrm. True or false: There is nothing going on in this thread that you are aware of other than the miller claim (and presumably now my challenge to you), so you have only two options, you can poke at the miller claim or you can ask people 'more' random questions.
Yeah, I tend to think I've voted at the start when I haven't, and tend to forget who I've voted for. Which is why I pay close attention to when vote-counts are posted, usually.Ooh, so if there's an error in the vote counts, you usually won't be able to help catch it. Do you track votes on yourself with more attention than you track how you use your own vote?
My case on Cheeetar was entirely based on his misinterpretation of Miller, and how dense he was being over the matter. Now that he's changed his mind, I don't have a case. I still suspect him with my gut, but have no case whatsoever to vote him over.I'm confused by your stance on your 'case' on Cheeetar. I'll explain my thinking, and ask you to discuss where yours differs from mine, please. Because I can't get my head to the conclusion that you say you do - that you had a case, and now you don't.
Nope, not that potato. Though you're getting closer. I did grab my role from a wiki.I'm getting closer? That was my first and only offering. You had to make repeated posts about your creepiness and potatoness to even get me to spend the single minute it took to find that. I'm not that interested in why you are a potato or creepy. But you sure are, it's been a major theme in your posts from game start. I do appreciate that -you- have been adding more scumhunting and follow up to your RP posts though. I'm as willing to see you RP as you choose as I am to follow Nerjin's and everyone elses - but if I can't spot the strategies and your efforts towards a wincon (or if it looks like the wrong wincon) I will be discussing that lack. That lack -had- existed, but you've greatly improved that.
I'm sad that you don't enjoy puntatos, but they are my own version of RP.
When I start seeing accusations that fit together, that make sense, I'll be out of the RVS phase. Because if no-one agrees on anything, then the town is still divided. Once members start to grow up (out of the ground) and agree with each other, we'll start seeing some progress. One small group working together will probably be scum, one large group working together is to the benefit of the town. With so few accusations that work together, I'm only seeing scattered signs of scum everywhere.In my (limited) experience, Town usually stays divided, because for the most part most of them don't have any idea who else is Town. Why would Scum want to visibly form a small group that works together and is composed only of Scum? I don't think I've ever seen that. Scum often spread out and stick their fingers into whatever they see fitting, and often different members work different directions to avoid any visible connections. There's nothing to stop one, or even all of the Scum from joining that larger group either, even if the target is a Scum member but especially if it isn't.
Imp: I must have accidentally skipped over him on the list.I have not. I'll start chewing on it tonight, time permitting, thanks for the suggestion.
A question to you: Have you read my recent BYOR (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139254.0)? It may be of use to see how Varee played there.
-snip-Heehee. Seems I'm doing nothing right today :P
flabortI don't see how you don't see it.Yeah, I tend to think I've voted at the start when I haven't, and tend to forget who I've voted for. Which is why I pay close attention to when vote-counts are posted, usually.Ooh, so if there's an error in the vote counts, you usually won't be able to help catch it. Do you track votes on yourself with more attention than you track how you use your own vote?My case on Cheeetar was entirely based on his misinterpretation of Miller, and how dense he was being over the matter. Now that he's changed his mind, I don't have a case. I still suspect him with my gut, but have no case whatsoever to vote him over.I'm confused by your stance on your 'case' on Cheeetar. I'll explain my thinking, and ask you to discuss where yours differs from mine, please. Because I can't get my head to the conclusion that you say you do - that you had a case, and now you don't.
Someone is Scum or they are not (conversions aside). They are Scum or not regardless of what they misinterpret and no matter if they are dense or clever. How can you 'have a case' that someone is Scummy because of what they say, but later you say 'I don't have a case' because they learn something new or change their mind? Scum don't stop being Scum because they change their mind.
You as in the whole group of people, I can't keep track of who guessed what (without my sheet, which I've been reworking and still isn't functional).Nope, not that potato. Though you're getting closer. I did grab my role from a wiki.I'm getting closer? That was my first and only offering. You had to make repeated posts about your creepiness and potatoness to even get me to spend the single minute it took to find that. I'm not that interested in why you are a potato or creepy. But you sure are, it's been a major theme in your posts from game start. I do appreciate that -you- have been adding more scumhunting and follow up to your RP posts though. I'm as willing to see you RP as you choose as I am to follow Nerjin's and everyone elses - but if I can't spot the strategies and your efforts towards a wincon (or if it looks like the wrong wincon) I will be discussing that lack. That lack -had- existed, but you've greatly improved that.
I'm sad that you don't enjoy puntatos, but they are my own version of RP.
Aye. Ever play on Giant in the Playground Games? The vanilla townie is nicknamed "sheep". Because that's how the game is played there, the fastest player to get a bandwagon to form on someone wins. None of this question stuff or conversations, it's all jokes and rewritten song lyrics (Somebody rewrote Sexy and I Know It to fit me and my avatar once). I know what a Bandwagon is. And usually the second or third player(s) to vote the wagon'd player is scum.When I start seeing accusations that fit together, that make sense, I'll be out of the RVS phase. Because if no-one agrees on anything, then the town is still divided. Once members start to grow up (out of the ground) and agree with each other, we'll start seeing some progress. One small group working together will probably be scum, one large group working together is to the benefit of the town. With so few accusations that work together, I'm only seeing scattered signs of scum everywhere.In my (limited) experience, Town usually stays divided, because for the most part most of them don't have any idea who else is Town. Why would Scum want to visibly form a small group that works together and is composed only of Scum? I don't think I've ever seen that. Scum often spread out and stick their fingers into whatever they see fitting, and often different members work different directions to avoid any visible connections. There's nothing to stop one, or even all of the Scum from joining that larger group either, even if the target is a Scum member but especially if it isn't.
Ever heard of bandwagon?
I dont see anything "suspicious" as of yet. the miller debate is informative but dosent really tell much. Will just have to wait and see i guessI don't think we'll have the luxury of waiting and seeing. Of all the players that have yet to vote, you've posted the least. That's suspicious in the Book of NQT. Poor engagement and inability to press cases and form genuine suspicions is a genuine scum tell. You're cannier than you pretend to be, you should know this. Make a case.
O.O okie my english bad,i bad person not speak english perfect.
I woild love for a no lynch day one. For all thoses who are on my trail , am aware how scummy you might make that but for all you can tell there is LITERALLY no information to base a decision on. If you want to call all the half lie and claim information then by all mean go ahead. Let me add something ro your list of "information" then.
So who look like they need power?
Come come we got everything you want, you just say so and i can build it!
So wgo want ti be empower who our lucky person. I say our devoted president seem to be a good guy so should we give him a gift? Or sjould ee help our poor miller who work hard to gain our trust. Just name it and all i can say is "We can build it !"
so whoever feel like they have time to give opinion: What do you think is lying too much. Is saying your internet broke down to avoid answering question?
Silthuri: You mentioned you are bad with RVS questions, and that you're so far just skimming through posts to catch questions addressed to you, though you did mention you'd reread Sunday.
How will you know when we leave the RVS stage, what marks that change to you?
Silthuri How do you plan to use your role to it's full potential? How do you plan on using the day game to your best advantage?I don't really know. My powers are things unlike I've ever experienced before. I'll use the day game to hone in on the scum. If anyone else were rolfishing so obviously, I'd vote them into next week.
Right now, I would like hear EVERYONE'S number one suspect aside from the person you are voting and why. Just to see who is who in this situation.I will answer this tomorrow morning, along with posting my reads. I've got most my notes written down on paper but have run out of energy tonight to type them. 300 posts is a lot to sort through...
Nerjin, are there any players you've seen as acting suspicious apart from 4maskwolf? Any possible communist sympathisers?
Nerjin, was your vice president a cake?
Flabort:Silthuri How do you plan to use your role to it's full potential? How do you plan on using the day game to your best advantage?I don't really know. My powers are things unlike I've ever experienced before. I'll use the day game to hone in on the scum. If anyone else were rolfishing so obviously, I'd vote them into next week.
Spoiler: notquitethere (click to show/hide)
A cursory glance at the lurker trackerBoth lurker trackers I know of (think, ZU) are throwing errors. Would you offer link to a functional tracker?
Right now, I would like hear EVERYONE'S number one suspect aside from the person you are voting and why. Just to see who is who in this situation.
Silthuri:Because it's me rolefishing, and I've made it clear in previous games that that's part of what I do.Flabort:Silthuri How do you plan to use your role to it's full potential? How do you plan on using the day game to your best advantage?I don't really know. My powers are things unlike I've ever experienced before. I'll use the day game to hone in on the scum. If anyone else were rolfishing so obviously, I'd vote them into next week.
"If anyone else were rolfishing so obviously, I'd vote them into next week."
Why have you made a unique exception in this case?
Silthuri: Only 3 posts so far.This is interesting to note, though. I think we should work to encourage them to talk more.
IronyOwl: Low post count; 3 posts so far.
That said, TolyK, I wasn't only talking about your vote. You've been sheeping pretty hard these last two pages. Maybe it's just how fast and intense this game is feeling. Could you summarize your feelings on Flabort and those who are voting him alongside you?The main problem is indeed the speed of the game - I just can't keep up with all the players' posts, and concentrating on things that tickle my scummeter.
This is obviously not a satisfactory answer, since you typically play to win as well, and this could be detrimental to that fact.flabort, why are you giving your role name away to people (slowly but surely)?Because it's fun.
Mr. NQT, I have to say I'm disappointed. You are reaching far beyond what a normal, innocent, man would ever dare to. What, exactly, in this post claimed her as Third Party?She openly mentioned having 3rd party roles before. It's quite common for 3rd parties to indirectly out themselves through their preoccupations.
am not drunk D:< I just really need to build someone a new house tonight. :PI'd like to know more about this house. Is it a power boost? A lasting-doctor effect? A you-cannot-be-targeted-but-neither-can-you-target-anyone-or-post-for-a-round effect?
Got a few unanswered questions, Nerjin.
Nerjin, are there any players you've seen as acting suspicious apart from 4maskwolf? Any possible communist sympathisers?
Nerjin, was your vice president a cake?
Nerjin:
Remember this?
Spoiler: notquitethere (click to show/hide)
NQT did not respond to your comments or answer your question. You didn't follow up. Why not?
Everyone on Flabort's Case, he's engaged, he's voting people and posting: is he really the best Day 1 lynch candidate?
This is why I'm fascinated and frustrated with the Bay12 standard of asking questions instead of shooting blindly from the hip. It does make the game more balanced, but it's difficult to actually be effective. Even harder to blend in and not be noticed, too.
Because it's me rolefishing, and I've made it clear in previous games that that's part of what I do.
He gets on Persus's case for getting on scripten's case (protective of scripten, or protecting persus from bandwagoning?).
He says that the night game consists of just sending in an action or not; clearly someone who'd pretty lazy about their night game. Very little thought at all as to who to target, like they don't care; that's pretty scummy.
I don't see how you don't see it.
He changed his mind, after being corrected.
My case was that he wouldn't change his mind.
Therefor, he broke my case.
Therefor, I have none.
I still suspect him on a gut level, so yes, scum don't stop being scum, but I have NO WAY OF PROVING THAT HE IS (Also known as a "CASE").
I keep wanting to vote Varee, but I'm remembering just how badly the town hurt in the CYOM that's going on now. A Varee lynch seems easy, but is that what we want? Seems to me that both Varee and 4maskwolf may end up being a liability to the town even if they are aligned with it, just from the gameplay I've seen in the thread so far.
Toaster - even fewer posts, never voted
Everyone on Flabort's Case, he's engaged, he's voting people and posting: is he really the best Day 1 lynch candidate?You're missing a vote on me if you want the full chainsaw experience, NQT. Regardless of how much he's voting and posting, if he looks scummy then he looks scummy. Isn't it the point for scum to be active and try to look like scumhunting town anyway? I'm not going to pull the "too-townie" card, but I will say that activity and voting does not necessarily make someone town.
Toaster - even fewer posts, never votedTechnically, didn't Toaster claim medical reasons?
Imp Do you think it's possible that some player's behaviors could be explained by them having a day-use power? If so, which players?
flabort, why are you giving your role name away to people (slowly but surely)?
TolyK: You seem relatively happy to jump on the Flabort wagon. What makes Flabort's role talk more dangerous to the town or more scummy than everyone else's?« Reply #316 on: Today at 03:55:22 pm »
There was a flabort wagon? When I voted?
As far as I remember, when I voted flabort with a random vote people were taking about millers...
Everyone on Flabort's Case, he's engaged, he's voting people and posting: is he really the best Day 1 lynch candidate?
Imp: has yet to use her vote.
Flabort: Answer this.My case on Cheeetar was entirely based on his misinterpretation of Miller, and how dense he was being over the matter. Now that he's changed his mind, I don't have a case. I still suspect him with my gut, but have no case whatsoever to vote him over.So, if you suspect him, and have for some time, and felt you didn't have enough evidence, why weren't you trying to gather more evidence and improve your read? You stopped interacting with him in the middle of the miller mess.
He vanishes for over a hundred posts, he tries to correct me on the proper use of PFP (What does it matter what it stands for, it all means the same thing), accuses Imp of gaining advantage from being targeted, accuses Jack of rolefishing (Does Jack ever rolefish? I didn't think he'd be the type), and votes Persus.Wow. You're spinning Shakerag being away between posts for less than (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5552424#msg5552424) (post #111: 4:52 PM Aug. 7) 24 hours (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5555451#msg5555451) (Post #236: 2:27 PM Aug. 8) to look as bad as it can, by saying he "vanishe[d]" and emphasizing the high activity of other players in the thread during that reasonable absence. Then you take a shot at him for daring to accuse me of rolefishing, ignoring the fact that said accusation was correct. It was highly limited rolefishing, and I see it as justified by Shakerag's history of submissions meant to screw everyone over and/or screw the game up, but it was rolefishing.
When next he's seenHow dare Shakerag not be a weekend player!?!
I still suspect him [Cheeetar] on a gut level, so yes, scum don't stop being scum, but I have NO WAY OF PROVING THAT HE IS (Also known as a "CASE").And? Again, why haven't you been trying to improve your read/get evidence? Why go beyond abandoning a flawed-looking case and outright abandon your suspect? Why leave him so completely that you even forgot about your vote? Why make babbling about potatoes and camping a higher-priority action than gaining information on your suspect?
@jack I hipfire horribly, so those are more or less random picks. They're the names that came up after more or less re-skimming though the material....but what do you think? Why do you think he is worth your vote?
Flabort, who I've already voted, had since taken the front scene.
Most of my case on Flabort:...And? What makes this scummy?This is obviously not a satisfactory answer, since you typically play to win as well, and this could be detrimental to that fact.flabort, why are you giving your role name away to people (slowly but surely)?Because it's fun.
Everyone on Flabort's Case, he's engaged, he's voting people and posting: is he really the best Day 1 lynch candidate?NQT (Flabort should read this too): He's definitely posting, yes. It is true that he is now engaged with the game, as any reasonable player under heavy fire would be. Up until my vote for him (at which point he had 19 posts), his contributions had been a first post set of RVS questions, a little bit of Cheeetar engagement (which he abandoned quickly), and a very short Jester accusation against 4mask. While flabort says he suspected Cheeetar even after the miller stuff, flabort had completely stopped interacting with Cheeetar after this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5552992#msg5552992) (the sixth of flabort's posts). (Heck, even now, he does nothing to improve his Cheeetar read) Most of flabort's posts had consisted of him babbling about potatoes and camping, and his one vote at that point was one he didn't really care about. Low-engagement play, without even awareness of where his vote was, and his high post count was largely due to him flooding the thread with potatoes.
But whatever you do, do NOT give it to Tiruin. I love her like a student. She is my heir so to speak. However, her loyalty to America itself is in question. A 'miller' as it is called should never be given that sort of power.Nerjin: Please explain.
Right now, I would like hear EVERYONE'S number one suspect aside from the person you are voting and why. Just to see who is who in this situation.TolyK, for his weak participation in the Flabortwagon (see above). I do also find Silthuri's low activity off-putting (thanks, NQT, for reminding me of her), but not as much as I find TolyK's actions off-putting.
But whatever you do, do NOT give it to Tiruin. I love her like a student. She is my heir so to speak. However, her loyalty to America itself is in question. A 'miller' as it is called should never be given that sort of power.Nerjin: Please explain.
How dare Shakerag not be a weekend player!?!OK, so shakerag's absences are excusable. But by that logic, no-body being absent matters. Jiokuy being absent doesn't matter. And if low activity doesn't matter, high activity doesn't matter. And by that logic, my low activity followed by high activity doesn't matter. I still get to think that shakerag's active lurking if you think that that matters.
Is there a reason you're spinning a non-issue to look as bad as possible and omitting an inconvenient fact that would interfere with your case?Does everything in that post have to be an issue? I was going over everything he's done. Not everything he's done is bad. But he has done bad things, and is pinging "scum" like crazy to me.
And? Again, why haven't you been trying to improve your read/get evidence? Why go beyond abandoning a flawed-looking case and outright abandon your suspect? Why leave him so completely that you even forgot about your vote? Why make babbling about potatoes and camping a higher-priority action than gaining information on your suspect?Because he's not my prime suspect. Because what can I do to improve my read or get evidence without being accused of something else now? You're all tunnel visioning and WANT to believe I'm scum. Babbling about camping and forgetting about my vote because I had no time because of the stress of preparing for camping.
His current vote? This beautiful bit of panicking under fire.That's a fire? That's panicking? I was as cool as a cucumber for that post.
I also actually suspect him of building questions to which there is no right answer in order to cause a mislynch. I've accused Tiruin of that before, in previous games, and I feel very justified in voting Shakerag for it now.
PPE2: Toaster, eh? OK, that's a weird answer. If you don't prod someone into doing something, then they haven't done it. So if you do prod them into doing something, then it's your fault that they did it, right? I don't quite understand how you came to your conclusion.
Also, yeah, I guess he should be wary of redirections, but so should anyone.
Yeah, I want to help out. Help confirm whether you are town or not.
Oh, and FYI, don't build me specifically a house, it won't do anything.
Who do I think needs a new house?
I'm partial to saying Tiruin, but with the Miller claim, we can't know for sure if that's a good idea.
So perhaps Toaster would be an excellent candidate. Since nobody's confirmed anyways, we could go with the reputedly hardest person to confirm.
I believe that the way your power and mine might interact will confirm all three of us as one alignment or the other; you, me, our target.
That all depends on what toaster says about that plan, though. If he rejects it, due to not trusting either of us or his auto possibly interacting with either power, we can target someone else.
Oh, and I even see an opportunity to tie the vote and cause a no-lynch. I won't do that, though, because I value town's right to a flip. However, you won't get one if you continue to vote me anyways, so *shrug* why not pursue some target that can die? You can't kill a potato. Grind it up? It just grows from a piece of an eye. And that plant creates more potatoes. I'm afraid there's no point to voting me.
Technically, didn't Toaster claim medical reasons?
Oh, and I even see an opportunity to tie the vote and cause a no-lynch. I won't do that, though, because I value town's right to a flip. However, you won't get one if you continue to vote me anyways, so *shrug* why not pursue some target that can die? You can't kill a potato. Grind it up? It just grows from a piece of an eye. And that plant creates more potatoes. I'm afraid there's no point to voting me.
Extend.Oh, yeah, those exist.
Extend. A review on Flabort isn't turning up what I expected. That said...
Flabort:I also actually suspect him of building questions to which there is no right answer in order to cause a mislynch. I've accused Tiruin of that before, in previous games, and I feel very justified in voting Shakerag for it now.
Can you show a few of those questions? Ideally with him voting over the answer?
PPE2: Toaster, eh? OK, that's a weird answer. If you don't prod someone into doing something, then they haven't done it. So if you do prod them into doing something, then it's your fault that they did it, right? I don't quite understand how you came to your conclusion.
Also, yeah, I guess he should be wary of redirections, but so should anyone.
An example will help:
PlayerA: Hey PlayerB, why aren't you voting anyone?
PlayerB: *votes someone* Sure I am!
The buildup that got PlayerA's attention is still there.[/quot]
OK, I see. Just because someone prods you into doing something, doesn't mean you weren't doing something else.QuoteOK, then it's settled.Yeah, I want to help out. Help confirm whether you are town or not.
Oh, and FYI, don't build me specifically a house, it won't do anything.
Who do I think needs a new house?
I'm partial to saying Tiruin, but with the Miller claim, we can't know for sure if that's a good idea.
So perhaps Toaster would be an excellent candidate. Since nobody's confirmed anyways, we could go with the reputedly hardest person to confirm.
I believe that the way your power and mine might interact will confirm all three of us as one alignment or the other; you, me, our target.
That all depends on what toaster says about that plan, though. If he rejects it, due to not trusting either of us or his auto possibly interacting with either power, we can target someone else.
While I'm not opposed to beneficial actions being used on me, I fail to see how this confirms anyone of anything.
Also, OK, I guess it doesn't confirm anything, but it should reveal more information about all three parties.QuoteWhat does it tell you? What is your interpretation of this?Oh, and I even see an opportunity to tie the vote and cause a no-lynch. I won't do that, though, because I value town's right to a flip. However, you won't get one if you continue to vote me anyways, so *shrug* why not pursue some target that can die? You can't kill a potato. Grind it up? It just grows from a piece of an eye. And that plant creates more potatoes. I'm afraid there's no point to voting me.
Now this is a rather forward claim.
I'm pretty sure I breadcrumbed this claim earlier? I forget.QuoteAnyway, Flabort I couldn't find anything conclusive one way or the other. Need to do some more rereading, starting with NQT and TolyK.You do that. I'll just be mourning a great mind. :(Hello, Flabort, this is your president, Nerjin, addressing you directly.I was not indicating a cult. I was indicating that I cannot die. And yeah, I'm pretty immune to lynching; not that specific wording, but the effect is the same.Oh, and I even see an opportunity to tie the vote and cause a no-lynch. I won't do that, though, because I value town's right to a flip. However, you won't get one if you continue to vote me anyways, so *shrug* why not pursue some target that can die? You can't kill a potato. Grind it up? It just grows from a piece of an eye. And that plant creates more potatoes. I'm afraid there's no point to voting me.
So you are claiming to be immune to lynching AND it seems like you might be indicating a cult of sorts. Could you discuss these claims in more detail?
"And that plant creates more potatoes" is just an indication of my flavor. I have so many potatoes, I have no idea what to do with them all. It just refers to if you try to kill me, I'll just come back.Oh yeah, Nerjin. Meant to say I at first thought he was posting as he was to hide him not doing anything, then I saw the content. Then it was I thought he was posting that way to make it just hard to read his posts, but I haven't seen any malicious activity from him.Hidden messages? There might be some clue in his sign-offs.
Fine, Jack, if you're right about me being scum, then what does that say about Cheeetar?flabort: I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Please clarify.
First I try to bus him and then I try to distance myself is how I would see it from your flawed perspective.
Again, early game lack of participation was out of my hands. I was distracted by the whole camping issue, I had no time to knuckle down and focus. You'll also notice my activity was down from earlier in the CYOM of NQT's during this period, I think. I was still active, but I was talking more about queued actions and stuff.You were able to be active enough to throw a bunch of posts around and answer questions, but not enough to do much scumhunting after your short Cheeetar engagement?
...what is this? There's a difference between a sub-24 hour absence or weekend absence (which are quite common and expected) and an extended absence (which is lurking), and there's a difference between posting content and not posting content. This bit from you is, to be frank, nonsense.QuoteHow dare Shakerag not be a weekend player!?!OK, so shakerag's absences are excusable. But by that logic, no-body being absent matters. Jiokuy being absent doesn't matter. And if low activity doesn't matter, high activity doesn't matter. And by that logic, my low activity followed by high activity doesn't matter. I still get to think that shakerag's active lurking if you think that that matters.
...You just said the gaps were an issue. You just argued that an effort to excuse those absences was wrong (I think). In addition, the weekend gap and the rolefishing accusation you specifically emphasized with italics. Why, if not to attack Shakerag?QuoteIs there a reason you're spinning a non-issue to look as bad as possible and omitting an inconvenient fact that would interfere with your case?Does everything in that post have to be an issue? I was going over everything he's done. Not everything he's done is bad. But he has done bad things, and is pinging "scum" like crazy to me.
So? I understand that Cheeetar is no longer your prime suspect. Merely your second-strongest suspect. So, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and accept that you have strategic reasons for focusing just on your prime suspect and avoiding your second-strongest suspect. But again, why, during the extended period after you completely abandoned Cheeetar but before I voted you, did you not try to gain more information on him? Why so completely abandon him?QuoteAnd? Again, why haven't you been trying to improve your read/get evidence? Why go beyond abandoning a flawed-looking case and outright abandon your suspect? Why leave him so completely that you even forgot about your vote?Because he's not my prime suspect.
Because what can I do to improve my read or get evidence without being accused of something else now?Do not use me or your other attackers as an excuse not to improve your read or get evidence. Why do you care so much about how your attackers would view efforts to scumhunt? Why are you letting that interfere with your scumhunting?
Oh, and I even see an opportunity to tie the vote and cause a no-lynch. I won't do that, though, because I value town's right to a flip. However, you won't get one if you continue to vote me anyways, so *shrug* why not pursue some target that can die? You can't kill a potato. Grind it up? It just grows from a piece of an eye. And that plant creates more potatoes. I'm afraid there's no point to voting me.
Shakerag: You have stated that you suspect NQT (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5566744#msg5566744) for his behaviour with regard to flabort. What do you think a town NQT would do differently?I guess I have a mental image of NQT being a bit more analytical than just saying we shouldn't vote a player because he's really active. It just feels a bit off that he's not giving something a bit more concrete as to why we should let flabort off the hook. Or some kind of game-by-game analysis of flabort's playing style or something.
OK, so shakerag's absences are excusable. But by that logic, no-body being absent matters. Jiokuy being absent doesn't matter. And if low activity doesn't matter, high activity doesn't matter. And by that logic, my low activity followed by high activity doesn't matter. I still get to think that shakerag's active lurking if you think that that matters.How do you even go from one person having an excusable absence to absences don't matter? I can't even begin to follow your reasoning for that, let alone the rest of the paragraph.
However, you won't get one if you continue to vote me anyways, so *shrug* why not pursue some target that can die? You can't kill a potato. Grind it up? It just grows from a piece of an eye. And that plant creates more potatoes. I'm afraid there's no point to voting me.Oh well, gee, I guess we'll just not vote flabort for the rest of the game because he claimed unlynchable/a resurrect. You realize that these kinds of claims never end well, right?
Extend. Larger post hopefully later today.Part of the reason I didn't vote varee. Who I don't suspect in the slightest anyways.
If the extend fails to go through. Flabort, you are not going to tie up the vote and cause a No Lynch. If you are unlynchable as you claim, you'd survive it.
If you think I'm scum, if I flip scum, then you'll have to go back and reevaluate all my interactions.Fine, Jack, if you're right about me being scum, then what does that say about Cheeetar?flabort: I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Please clarify.
First I try to bus him and then I try to distance myself is how I would see it from your flawed perspective.
I was sneaking away from the IRL stress and activity to read and post. Most of the time my absence was noticed before I could do any scumhunting or thinking.Again, early game lack of participation was out of my hands. I was distracted by the whole camping issue, I had no time to knuckle down and focus. You'll also notice my activity was down from earlier in the CYOM of NQT's during this period, I think. I was still active, but I was talking more about queued actions and stuff.You were able to be active enough to throw a bunch of posts around and answer questions, but not enough to do much scumhunting after your short Cheeetar engagement?
If that's what you think this is, then that's what it is to you. I still believe his absences were long enough to matter....what is this? There's a difference between a sub-24 hour absence or weekend absence (which are quite common and expected) and an extended absence (which is lurking), and there's a difference between posting content and not posting content. This bit from you is, to be frank, nonsense.QuoteHow dare Shakerag not be a weekend player!?!OK, so shakerag's absences are excusable. But by that logic, no-body being absent matters. Jiokuy being absent doesn't matter. And if low activity doesn't matter, high activity doesn't matter. And by that logic, my low activity followed by high activity doesn't matter. I still get to think that shakerag's active lurking if you think that that matters.
Yeah, the absences were a note of interest; they indicated that he was far less involved than most of the other players....You just said the gaps were an issue. You just argued that an effort to excuse those absences was wrong (I think). In addition, the weekend gap and the rolefishing accusation you specifically emphasized with italics. Why, if not to attack Shakerag?QuoteIs there a reason you're spinning a non-issue to look as bad as possible and omitting an inconvenient fact that would interfere with your case?Does everything in that post have to be an issue? I was going over everything he's done. Not everything he's done is bad. But he has done bad things, and is pinging "scum" like crazy to me.
Will "I forgot about it" work? Obviously I remember now, and it's an issue for you, but I forgot completely during that period. As stated before, the stress of IRL getting ready for camping was giving me little time, including time to think. So I forgot.So? I understand that Cheeetar is no longer your prime suspect. Merely your second-strongest suspect. So, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and accept that you have strategic reasons for focusing just on your prime suspect and avoiding your second-strongest suspect. But again, why, during the extended period after you completely abandoned Cheeetar but before I voted you, did you not try to gain more information on him? Why so completely abandon him?QuoteAnd? Again, why haven't you been trying to improve your read/get evidence? Why go beyond abandoning a flawed-looking case and outright abandon your suspect? Why leave him so completely that you even forgot about your vote?Because he's not my prime suspect.
Why is this specific case needling at you so much? At this point I'm just not asking him questions because it's provoking you, and I'm starting to suspect a connection between him and you.Because what can I do to improve my read or get evidence without being accused of something else now?Do not use me or your other attackers as an excuse not to improve your read or get evidence. Why do you care so much about how your attackers would view efforts to scumhunt? Why are you letting that interfere with your scumhunting?
Looks like you noticed the answer and just didn't remove the question here.Oh, and I even see an opportunity to tie the vote and cause a no-lynch. I won't do that, though, because I value town's right to a flip. However, you won't get one if you continue to vote me anyways, so *shrug* why not pursue some target that can die? You can't kill a potato. Grind it up? It just grows from a piece of an eye. And that plant creates more potatoes. I'm afraid there's no point to voting me.Alright, I understand the non-flipping, reviving stuff, but what do you mean by the "that plant creates more potatoes" part?PPE: Alright.
One last thing: any response to Shakerag's recent post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5566744#msg5566744) about you? (I can see how you might have missed it, with it being the last post of a 25 or 50 post page).Sure. "Yes, I do say that vote analysis has a use even here on bay 12. No, I don't believe you were busy with 'the job thing' over the weekend."
Not changing my vote: quite late in the day and I'm not doing last-minute vote screwy stuff.Fine.
Yes. I've been bouncing between anger and grief and denial like a pinball for the last few minutes. Do you know just how many movies with him in them I've watched? Good movies? Movies where I didn't even recognize him for the first half hour or longer because he's that good?Spoiler: Off topic (click to show/hide)
flabort:My reasoning is that if I have to excuse one absence, then I have to excuse others, at which point I have to excuse them all, at which point they don't matter any more. Which as the logic then follows, means that Jiokuy being absent doesn't matter because no absence matters because I've excused them all.OK, so shakerag's absences are excusable. But by that logic, no-body being absent matters. Jiokuy being absent doesn't matter. And if low activity doesn't matter, high activity doesn't matter. And by that logic, my low activity followed by high activity doesn't matter. I still get to think that shakerag's active lurking if you think that that matters.How do you even go from one person having an excusable absence to absences don't matter? I can't even begin to follow your reasoning for that, let alone the rest of the paragraph.QuoteHowever, you won't get one if you continue to vote me anyways, so *shrug* why not pursue some target that can die? You can't kill a potato. Grind it up? It just grows from a piece of an eye. And that plant creates more potatoes. I'm afraid there's no point to voting me.Oh well, gee, I guess we'll just not vote flabort for the rest of the game because he claimed unlynchable/a resurrect. You realize that these kinds of claims never end well, right?
I call shenanigans!
Someone day killed me. A day kill is not a town power.
No, my one-shot is Vote-ato, and I'll prove that it's not clearing the board by simultaneously voting Cheeetar and Shakerag.I call shenanigans!
Someone day killed me. A day kill is not a town power.
Explain to me why exactly scum, or otherwise, would day kill you? Especially, if you had all the votes on you? No. I think what happened is you used a one shot ability that allowed you to clear the board and make it look like a death/revive.
Potato potatoSeriously. Target Toaster. He says he isn't opposed to being buffed.
You have a problem?
Can we fix it?
Yes we can!
How we fix it?
...........
You want a house?
Can we build it?
Yes we can!
(well if no one want a house I will sleep walk and but it in the middle of nowhere and it will be first come first serve.)
Varee, why are you so interested in somebody volunteering for being targeted by your night action?Cuase I got to build it. Better find some willing target that will tell what the hell the house really do (cuase i dont even know) than building it is random place and still got no clue o who or what it do(I guess i sleepwalk to build house or something)
flabort: Look liek your infinite vote is not working..... Are you lying or something?I forgot that I needed to PM Wuba about it. I got a reminder about it, it should work now.
Alright. Full claim time, to save town from a grave mistake.For Reference (http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-1689) :P
I am town. I am SCP-1689, the bag of infinite potatoes.
TolyK has been lynched!
Hapah has been killed!
Cheetar, Toaster, Varee, IronyOwl: Did one of you do this?
Alright. Full claim time,
I just used my one-shot to vote my top two scum picks. I have a number of votes equal to the number of potatoes I have (which is infinite), I may only target two people with it; I'm not sure if this means there are now infinite votes on both my two picks, or if it just means I can vote two people once.
O_OYes. No abilities may be used after the end of the Day, which is either Hammer or the deadline.
The hammer hits when the votecount hits the # of votes needed and...that is final?
Just asking for clarity.
Shakerag
The BYOR 13 Role That Is a Constant Source of Aggravation And Annoyance to Everyone Else
SK-Ally
You are… A really long rolename. You came here to make this game irritating for as many people as possible, and by god, you might be able to do it. Just don’t blame me when they start blaming you!
[REDACTED]
(Auto) Sorry!: While you are alive, only one player may die each Night. This is chosen at random among those that died with the most kills targeting them. The rest are revived.
(Auto) Aggravation: While you are alive, all players roleflip as Shakerag Did It (Town).
(Auto) Trouble: While you are alive, one random player is randomized.
(Auto) The Game of Life: While you are alive, you may talk to the dead. You may also use this ability while dead.
Shakerag Did It
Town
Shakerag, what the hell?
(Auto) Shakerag Did It: You know it was him.
Also: huzzah for no night deaths! We're doing something right.You responded in the middle of me writing a post, and I'm tired. My apologies for having exhausted my mental faculties trying to outwit the town in CYOM, hopefully my full wits and scumhunting potential will be back by morning.
4mask, your input for the night is a... Vote then an immediate unvote? :(
Persus13, it was me orFlabortShakerag and I had a very small window of time in which to decide. I'm incredibly glad he ended up not being town. Thanks!
Persus13, it was me or Flabort and I had a very small window of time in which to decide. I'm incredibly glad he ended up not being town. Thanks!What is your wincon?
Flabort, why did you use your one-shot so early? Your move seemed incredibly desperate.So you're saying desperate actions are untrustworthy?
I'll start digging back for things later. For now:
Cheeetar:Persus13, it was me or Flabort and I had a very small window of time in which to decide. I'm incredibly glad he ended up not being town. Thanks!What is your wincon?Flabort, why did you use your one-shot so early? Your move seemed incredibly desperate.So you're saying desperate actions are untrustworthy?
All anti-town factions dead.And why was quickhammering Shakerag to save your own skin necessary for that?
In that situation, his desperation was suspicious (he had two votes of a necessary 9 on him and he needed to 'save town from a grave mistake'?) I do not trust people who are suspicious, so I am questioning him.And you had a hammer unilaterally poised over your head by someone you already suspected for other things, and now suspect for that as well. As a result, you felt you had to instantly kill someone you didn't suspect in order to save yourself from the chance that somebody else would say "Yeah, that sounds great!" and unilaterally hammer you, likely ending up on the chopping block themselves for it in the process.
Quick hammering Shakerag wasn't necessary for me to win, but it sure seems like it helped!How?
Also: huzzah for no night deaths! We're doing something right.We?
The sk ally is a dude who's trying to help the sk, so he's anti-town. By getting rid of him we're one step closer to winning.Yeah...SK Ally.
I claim no responsibility for preventing deaths this night, nor do I claim to have no responsibility :D
Cheetar:How would an SK ally even work, anyways?
Could you explain your actions at day end yesterday further?
Flabort: Could you do so as well?
Also congrats on killing an Sk ally.
Flabort, why did you use your one-shot so early? Your move seemed incredibly desperate.Let's see: I had two choices. Die and never use it, or use it and not know for sure the outcome.
I see desperation, but not suspicion (is it possible to suspect yourself?) It was a choice between me (a confirmed townie to myself) and Shakerag dying. In such a time pressured moment, I didn't at all feel comfortable saying 'yes okay let's let any one person decide who should die here.'Maybe it did, but it means that you were the hang-man, the one with blood on your hands now.
Quick hammering Shakerag wasn't necessary for me to win, but it sure seems like it helped!
PFP???
> I've lost my Miller ability (...yeah.)
> I've gained a Filler Ability. Literally called such. Ihave a 50% chance to lose an ability while...I have that ability.
As if its going to do anything anyway. :V
I get to play with Tiruin.
I get to play with Imp.
That's my role, by the way. I sent in 'an imp that plays with Tiruin'. *Rubs hands together*.
Lets see what I get!
I might be able to confirm a townie.
Confirming a townie ain't something easy in a By or with all the funky matchup , redirect and all that jazz. Also plant a sign of KILL ME over your head
. Scum hate lightningrod
No, I'm just in a different time zone. GMT+2, 10am now.Where are you getting this information? How do you know there's another third party after the SK and SK-ally?
That's true, of course, which is something I might confirm only to me.
Also, we almost definitely have an SK, given an SK-ally (unless Wuba really is a bastard in regard to Shakerag :D), and we have another third party to be sure.
Given at least two killing teams, I'd guess we either have an arsonist or a really strange mafia kill.
Pardon ShakeragWtf was this? Apparently a mayor who failed?
I'm afraid not.
I see desperation, but not suspicion (is it possible to suspect yourself?) It was a choice between me (a confirmed townie to myself) and Shakerag dying. In such a time pressured moment, I didn't at all feel comfortable saying 'yes okay let's let any one person decide who should die here.'And why would a townie be desperate here? Why would you be concerned that somebody would come along and finish the job at all? Is there any reason not to heavily suspect you from anyone else's perspective?
Quick hammering Shakerag wasn't necessary for me to win, but it sure seems like it helped!Haha well all's well that ends well! :))
> I've lost my Miller ability (...yeah.)Per cycle or what? Permanently?
NQTWhat?
Brilliant design knowing my power. What was all that about knowing the name, by the way?
*prods everyone with a stick*Laaaaaaateeeeeeer.
Wait, does that mean we have an SK? Great.Really. You want us to believe that you just now figured this out. "SKs? What SKs?! I don't know anything about SKs! Why I didn' even notice anything about SKs when the guy I suspected and helped murder flipped 'SK ALLY!'"
C) I didn't want to be responsible for killing either of them if they wound up town.So your scummy, panicky, self-serving bullshit is perfectly understandable because you want to live and it "helps town," but Cheeetar's awfully suspicious for pulling the trigger on the gun you cocked for pretty much identical reasons?
G) Whoever cast the hammer vote would come under suspicion from the whole town.
Therefor, while it was a hasty and self-preserving action, there was plenty of reason behind it and I believed it would help town.
Maybe it did, but it means that you were the hang-man, the one with blood on your hands now.
Try living with that when it makes everyone suspicious of you.
Wtf was this? Apparently a mayor who failed?Shak had already been hammered, so it presumably could not trigger.
I think I may have had something to do with it. I didn't receive much info on my PM from Webadict.And have you messaged him for confirmation?
But if scum finished you off, that'd make them rather suspicious, wouldn't it? Were you not prepared to give your life in order to incriminate scum?And why would a townie be desperate here? Why would you be concerned that somebody would come along and finish the job at all? Is there any reason not to heavily suspect you from anyone else's perspective?
I was worried somebody would finish me off because we're in a 17 player game of mafia, and some of those 17 players are scum! Yes, I'd rather that I had lived than Shakerag, even before we knew who he was.
Seeing as you see Flabort as equally suspicious for creating the situation- why do you view my reaction as more scummy than him setting it up?He had the good sense to set it up but not actually fire. If he'd panicked all the way, he could have just hammered a target, any target, all on his own. Instead he set up a loaded gun at each of two suspects, and left it up to everyone else as to which or any trigger they wanted to pull. Meaning, nominally, to the town collectively. If they'd had the chance, anyone before you could have pulled the shit you pulled on their preferred target, and then justified it with "Well but I wanted this one to live!" But I suspect not many of them would have, because they'd have known it was scummy and counterproductive. Even flabort knew that, in the midst of panicking and scrambling to save his own skin otherwise.
Cheeetar:I think I may have had something to do with it. I didn't receive much info on my PM from Webadict.And have you messaged him for confirmation?
But if scum finished you off, that'd make them rather suspicious, wouldn't it? Were you not prepared to give your life in order to incriminate scum?And why would a townie be desperate here? Why would you be concerned that somebody would come along and finish the job at all? Is there any reason not to heavily suspect you from anyone else's perspective?
I was worried somebody would finish me off because we're in a 17 player game of mafia, and some of those 17 players are scum! Yes, I'd rather that I had lived than Shakerag, even before we knew who he was.
I hope that second part isn't intended to be an answer to my third question. "Killing someone else to save my own scummy hide is understandable because I wanted to live!" could be applied to anyone at any time. Would you view tying the vote to save yourself as understandable as well? Vigkilling someone for the sole reason that they might drive a lynch on you tomorrow? Driving a lynch on someone because they suspect you and therefore might in some way lead to your death at some point?
Speaking of which, what about Shakerag? If he'd gotten on first and hammered you instead, what would your reaction be if we all went "Well that was perfectly understandable. Now to lynch flabort for giving him the opportunity!"
Seeing as you see Flabort as equally suspicious for creating the situation- why do you view my reaction as more scummy than him setting it up?He had the good sense to set it up but not actually fire. If he'd panicked all the way, he could have just hammered a target, any target, all on his own. Instead he set up a loaded gun at each of two suspects, and left it up to everyone else as to which or any trigger they wanted to pull. Meaning, nominally, to the town collectively. If they'd had the chance, anyone before you could have pulled the shit you pulled on their preferred target, and then justified it with "Well but I wanted this one to live!" But I suspect not many of them would have, because they'd have known it was scummy and counterproductive. Even flabort knew that, in the midst of panicking and scrambling to save his own skin otherwise.
Everyone but you, in other words, probably knew that was a terrible, scummy idea.
But hey, let's ask them about it. Why not, right?
No- the questions I'd already asked about my role were sufficient. I'm not going to ask Webadict to spell things out for me because I'm fairly sure the uncertainty of what exactly happened is on purpose.I see. Is there a point at which you will be more forthcoming about what exactly you think happened?
So a townie should be eager to die because then the people who voted him would be suspicious...? I reject that. I'm not a jester- I have no desire to be lynched. If me being lynched aids the town later, huzzah, but I'm not planning for it to happen.A townie should be eager to die if the only way to kill him is either the town's will or something scum have to reveal themselves to do.
So I take it your answer to all of the above scenarios is "yes?" Even while town and thinking somebody else is town, any danger to yourself is a you or them scenario, right? And not just a you or them scenario, but an immediate you or them scenario; can't give town time to discuss it or anything like that. Gotta survive.I hope that second part isn't intended to be an answer to my third question. "Killing someone else to save my own scummy hide is understandable because I wanted to live!" could be applied to anyone at any time. Would you view tying the vote to save yourself as understandable as well? Vigkilling someone for the sole reason that they might drive a lynch on you tomorrow? Driving a lynch on someone because they suspect you and therefore might in some way lead to your death at some point?
Speaking of which, what about Shakerag? If he'd gotten on first and hammered you instead, what would your reaction be if we all went "Well that was perfectly understandable. Now to lynch flabort for giving him the opportunity!"
No, my reaction would've been- I probably would've done the same in that circumstance, and now I'm going to lynch Flabort not for giving him the opportunity, but for putting him in the circumstance where it was suicide or lynching somebody else. I didn't get an 'opportunity' to lynch someone. I was essentially forced to- it was me or him.
No, he couldn't've. The way I see it, he could put X number of votes on two people - that is, both people would receive the same amount of votes from him. So if he set it to 9 it would've tied the day.Mm. Possibly. Let's ask him about it too.
If we lynch Flabort, someone will have to night kill him or day kill him to stop him coming back. But frankly, I don't see Wuba giving scum an insta-hammer ability like that.Now that I think about it, a self-reviving role might make more sense if he also periodically killed himself. Or had some other condition whereupon he was brutally murdered without overt outside help.
If we lynch Flabort, someone will have to night kill him or day kill him to stop him coming back. But frankly, I don't see Wuba giving scum an insta-hammer ability like that.
Nerjin, what was the power you attempted to use yesterday and why did you try to save Shakerag?
Flabort: . . . congrats onkilling an Sk ally.saving your own skin and luckily killing a SK Ally.
MBP: Are you an arsonist again?
Tiruin:1. I've totally no idea. I have the Filler thingy however that gives me a 50% chance to lose an ability per cycle.> I've lost my Miller ability (...yeah.)Per cycle or what? Permanently?NQTWhat?
Brilliant design knowing my power. What was all that about knowing the name, by the way?*prods everyone with a stick*Laaaaaaateeeeeeer.
Here's my case against Flabort: He claimed to be certain both me and Shakerag were scum, and that's why he essentially condemned one of us to death. He does not, however, want to be viewed as responsible for it- he wants everyone to say that I'm to blame for Shakerag's death. He made the situation occur, then blamed me for reacting rationally to it. He thinks I'm a scummy person for lynching a SK ally instead of letting myself die - however, he's perfectly towny for panicking at the sight of two votes and using his one-shot to OMGUS. Do note that his reasons for suspecting me so far had been 'that guy just doesn't sit right with me.'Err, didn't he condemn both of you to death?
I'm going to unvote Nerjin and vote Flabort in the hope that his resurrect was a one-shot. I do still however want Nerjin to explain his attempted saving of Shakerag.
Tiruin, I already told you, I don't care what your ability was called (I don't have any power that targets ability names), I just wanted to know whether it fit with your theme (so I could judge how believable your miller claim was). If you suspected me of replacing your miller power with a filler power, then I'm not sure why you'd be voting me... did you want to be a miller?!...unvote
he essentially condemned one of us to death.Err, didn't he condemn both of you to death?
Nothing says how many lynches can occur in the OP.he essentially condemned one of us to death.Err, didn't he condemn both of you to death?
Well, there's one lynch per day- so, one of us. It could've been either of us, but only one could've died.
Tiruin I don't fully understand what you're saying but it's troubling me....Yeah, let's give me the finger without giving any more details than 'D: WAT U SAY'
Tiruin:I know silly! :P I was also saying that in jest (though I did make it of mention that...the wording may make it sound like its a crucial factor. Sorry about that :x)
No, I have not played around with your role, or you. I am not involved in whatever is happening with your abilities, but I am asking you about what you have said about what has happened.
Are you focused on this part of my pre-game statement?I get to play with Tiruin.
I specifically said that because of what you said, just before it:I get to play with Imp.
I added to what I said, yes. I made the pre-game claim,That's my role, by the way. I sent in 'an imp that plays with Tiruin'. *Rubs hands together*.
Lets see what I get!
That was meant as a joke, and was not the role I actually submitted to webadict this game. Gamer's honor.
I asked what I asked because the way you announced the ability change, and how similar the two names are (Miller/filler) made me wonder if your ability was partially randomized or something. You seemed both confused and forthcoming, and I couldn't even tell by how you wrote if you were surprised that it happened or just confused about a part of it or what.In truth, I'm quite :O that someone picked me as a target!
Tiruin, what action did you use this night? Don't say on who or what, perhaps not even concretely what it did, but what you used....
Webadict: Is this game restricted to One Lynch Per Day?No. But only in cases where two or more players are successfully Hammered. Ending the Day with equal votes less than Hammer is a No Lynch. Or those related to abilities, as always.
Alright, I think you're still suspicious, but Flabort is more suspicious.Persus13, it was me orFlabortShakerag and I had a very small window of time in which to decide. I'm incredibly glad he ended up not being town. Thanks!
Correction in bold.
> I've lost my Miller ability (...yeah.)That was me testing to make sure you weren't fakeclaiming scum. You passed. It also is completely gone, not stolen.
> I've gained a Filler Ability. Literally called such. Ihave a 50% chance to lose an ability while...I have that ability.That wasn't me.
As if its going to do anything anyway. :V
However it is unsure, though I've to ask any vets who have knowledge about alignments and somesuch in this case *stares at OP*, that the ally knew who was the SK, other than there was an SK for the rule to take place.I believe SK-ally doesn't know who the SK is unless it's one of their autos. I'm not too sure on that. However I'm pretty sure that the SK doesn't know who their ally is.
So I'm pretty wary regarding that case and your attitude--though knowing you...I am undecided.
Also why the paradox of claiming a yes or no and leaning on the 'or' in the middle? :I
...And thanks, but it seems someone swapped it (given the wording) or stole it. Less likely the latter.
How would an SK ally even work, anyways?Allies win when the people they're allied with win.
The SK would have to kill it's ally to win. Shakerag would have to die anyways for him to win.
Wait, does that mean we have an SK? Great.
As for your question, I knew that:So you did it to draw attention away from yourself, get two other people lynched that weren't you and avoid responsibility for it. Nice try. Yeah, you need to be lynched.
A) I would die for reals if I was voted that day after being daykilled, because my revive would not have time to recharge.
B) Someone having more votes on them then me would make me safe. Yes, this was incredibly self-serving, but I feel like my powers could help town. Less so now that I've actually claimed them, but I think they can still help; turning the night game against Scum into an excruciating game of "Did I or didn't I, and if I did where?". Night WIFOM vs Scum, if you will.
C) I didn't want to be responsible for killing either of them if they wound up town.
D) I didn't want to cause a tie.
E) I essentially presented the two of them with a variation on Prisoner's Dilemma. If one votes the other, they survive the day. If anyone else considered them scummy, though, they didn't. If they managed to each vote each other simultaneously (they didn't), they'd both survive due to it becoming a tie and no-lynch.
F) I didn't trust either of them.
G) Whoever cast the hammer vote would come under suspicion from the whole town.
Imp: I have not received a PM confirming or denying anything yet; I have not recieved information that would imply that I successfully copied the housing power onto myself. The power is not innately one of information, but I should learn about certain powers affecting me, such as if I gained a new ability like was implied by Varee.If you don't get a PM, it means your action was or seemed successful.
It's called common sense. TolyK did the same exact thing in Jack's BYOR too. If there's a 17 player game, then either there is a large scumteam or multiple third parties. Only multiple third parties is more balanced and FUN. Also, Shakerag's role only allows one kill to occur, which means that at least two people have some form of kill. One of which we know is the SK, while the other is likely the Mafia or a Vigilante. Weren't you in Jack's BYOR? Stop trying to cast suspicion on other people.No, I'm just in a different time zone. GMT+2, 10am now.Where are you getting this information? How do you know there's another third party after the SK and SK-ally?
That's true, of course, which is something I might confirm only to me.
Also, we almost definitely have an SK, given an SK-ally (unless Wuba really is a bastard in regard to Shakerag :D), and we have another third party to be sure.
Given at least two killing teams, I'd guess we either have an arsonist or a really strange mafia kill.
How do you know there's two killing teams when there were no kills last night?
I happened to see this while reading (yes, I see posts 352 and 353, but I'm on phone and can only quote one at a time).Webadict specifically said at the end of D1 that actions sent in after the hammer fail. So yes.Pardon ShakeragWtf was this? Apparently a mayor who failed?
I'm afraid not.
I want to say that, in Cheetah's position, I'd probably have done the exact same thing. When you're hammer-tied and you don't know the alignment of the person you're tied with, hammering them is probably the right move regardless of your alignment.Although I agree with you on Cheeetar, you're being really lenient on people this game. Are you prviding any alternatives to Flabort and Cheetar?
4mask What do you mean, someone distrusts you still?What I mean was that my action last night failed, which I'm assuming means I was roleblocked (which is odd, because that's my power). Either that, or my target was immune to roleblocks.
I can't really fault Cheeetar for trying to save his own skin, but his defensiveness about it... idk. Something strikes me as off, and I want to get to the bottom of this.
Cheeetar: How many scum do you think there are? How many third parties?
Hello once again America [and Flabort]. I want to address 4mask today.The question is going to lead into another one. I want his answer to this one first.I can't really fault Cheeetar for trying to save his own skin, but his defensiveness about it... idk. Something strikes me as off, and I want to get to the bottom of this.
Cheeetar: How many scum do you think there are? How many third parties?
So... I can't help but notice that you ask him a question that has nothing to do with the defensiveness that you claim to want to get to the bottom of.
Interesting... Very interesting...
That's all for now America. Stay safe. Stay America.
Cheeetar: How many scum do you think there are? How many third parties?
Well, we've killed one third party and there probably is an sk, so that makes two.Cheeetar: How many scum do you think there are? How many third parties?
In a typical 12 player game, there's like 3 scum (generally?)
So 25% of 19 is uh, 5? 4?
Maybe two scum teams of 3 each?
Third parties: We know there's a sk, there's tons of other probabilities as well. Guessing... 4? I really don't know. Webadict has some insane setups sometimes.
Well, we've killed one third party and there probably is an sk, so that makes two.
Okay. So you're saying that you guess 10-11 townies, 4-5 scum, and 4 third parties?
In which case, why were you afraid of dying. The town outnumbers the scum by a lot right now. Yes, you managed to off a hostile third party, but you didn't know that at the time. What made you convinced that Shakerag wasn't town? Why did you think you mattered more to the town than he did?
You didn't answer my last question. What made you think you being alive was more important than him being alive to the town? Also, who would have hammered you? Nobody had any major suspicions of you that I can recall, and if someone hammered you they would be outing themselves as anti-town unless they could come up with a damn good excuse. You don't have to be alive to fulfill the town wincon: why are you so important you have to be kept alive? Particularly when anyone hammering you would be summarily lynched, thus making your death take a scum down? Is you being alive more important than a scum being dead?Well, we've killed one third party and there probably is an sk, so that makes two.
Okay. So you're saying that you guess 10-11 townies, 4-5 scum, and 4 third parties?
In which case, why were you afraid of dying. The town outnumbers the scum by a lot right now. Yes, you managed to off a hostile third party, but you didn't know that at the time. What made you convinced that Shakerag wasn't town? Why did you think you mattered more to the town than he did?
(Emphasis mine)
I never claimed I knew anything. I knew I was town, I didn't know he was. I was afraid of dying because there was one vote necessary to kill me. I don't like having to repeat things like this- please just read my previous posts if you'd like to ask me stuff, because I may have answered it already.
Regardless of who got out of that situation, Shakerag and Cheetar would both have ended up being suspicious, depending on who survived it.Not necessarily: had neither of them hammered the other, the one who lived wouldn't be regarded with extra suspicion, at least not by me. The one who delivered the quickhammer would be.
There was no incentive not to hammer. If flabort really had cared about getting town to focus on those two, he could have made it so there were two votes needed to hammer.Regardless of who got out of that situation, Shakerag and Cheetar would both have ended up being suspicious, depending on who survived it.Not necessarily: had neither of them hammered the other, the one who lived wouldn't be regarded with extra suspicion, at least not by me. The one who delivered the quickhammer would be.
Err.Webadict: Is this game restricted to One Lynch Per Day?No. But only in cases where two or more players are successfully Hammered. Ending the Day with equal votes less than Hammer is a No Lynch. Or those related to abilities, as always.
Because only Shakerag got hammered, by Cheeetar. If you mean why didn't he hammer both Cheeetar and Shakerag and lynch them both, I don't know.Err.Webadict: Is this game restricted to One Lynch Per Day?No. But only in cases where two or more players are successfully Hammered. Ending the Day with equal votes less than Hammer is a No Lynch. Or those related to abilities, as always.
Flabort. Why was there only one person lynched?
PFP
There was no incentive not to hammer. If flabort really had cared about getting town to focus on those two, he could have made it so there were two votes needed to hammer.Regardless of who got out of that situation, Shakerag and Cheetar would both have ended up being suspicious, depending on who survived it.Not necessarily: had neither of them hammered the other, the one who lived wouldn't be regarded with extra suspicion, at least not by me. The one who delivered the quickhammer would be.
Also, what are you trying to argue that's different from anything IronyOwl has said and that Cheeetar has already responded to?
Flabort. Why was there only one person lynched?
You quoted a post from me responding to 4maskwolf, with a response that appears to be responding to 4maskwolf, not myself. What post are you trying to respond to here?There was no incentive not to hammer. If flabort really had cared about getting town to focus on those two, he could have made it so there were two votes needed to hammer.Regardless of who got out of that situation, Shakerag and Cheetar would both have ended up being suspicious, depending on who survived it.Not necessarily: had neither of them hammered the other, the one who lived wouldn't be regarded with extra suspicion, at least not by me. The one who delivered the quickhammer would be.
Also, what are you trying to argue that's different from anything IronyOwl has said and that Cheeetar has already responded to?
I'm certainly suspicious of Cheetar, but Flabort shows himself to be much more scummy by this play in my book. I suppose you could say I agree with Cheetar, but only on a superficial level.
Scripten:You quoted a post from me responding to 4maskwolf, with a response that appears to be responding to 4maskwolf, not myself. What post are you trying to respond to here?There was no incentive not to hammer. If flabort really had cared about getting town to focus on those two, he could have made it so there were two votes needed to hammer.Regardless of who got out of that situation, Shakerag and Cheetar would both have ended up being suspicious, depending on who survived it.Not necessarily: had neither of them hammered the other, the one who lived wouldn't be regarded with extra suspicion, at least not by me. The one who delivered the quickhammer would be.
Also, what are you trying to argue that's different from anything IronyOwl has said and that Cheeetar has already responded to?
I'm certainly suspicious of Cheetar, but Flabort shows himself to be much more scummy by this play in my book. I suppose you could say I agree with Cheetar, but only on a superficial level.
so someone get the house. I will be real happy if whoever got it said so. Also on second thought it might not be a house. more like toilet or something.
Regardless of who got out of that situation, Shakerag and Cheetar would both have ended up being suspicious, depending on who survived it. Because of that, Flabort comes up pretty damn scummy, or at least anti-town, for propagating the situation.
Vote Flabort
Everyone on Flabort's Case, he's engaged, he's voting people and posting: is he really the best Day 1 lynch candidate?
If we lynch Flabort, someone will have to night kill him or day kill him to stop him coming back. But frankly, I don't see Wuba giving scum an insta-hammer ability like that.
flabort, why are you giving your role name away to people (slowly but surely)?
Nine to hammer. If nobody else votes, you only need one vote and the day to end to lynch. Two votes is still enough to kill; nine is just what ends the day early.Flabort, why did you use your one-shot so early? Your move seemed incredibly desperate.Let's see: I had two choices. Die and never use it, or use it and not know for sure the outcome.
So I went with the advice of "remember to use your one-shots, don't hoard them", and used it. Using an early one-shot is not suspicious.
It is suspicious if you use it for seemingly no reason to essentially daykill someone. And no, don't create a false dilemma for yourself. You wouldn't die if you hadn't used it- there were two people voting you of a necessary nine.
Here's my case against Flabort: He claimed to be certain both me and Shakerag were scum, and that's why he essentially condemned one of us to death. He does not, however, want to be viewed as responsible for it- he wants everyone to say that I'm to blame for Shakerag's death. He made the situation occur, then blamed me for reacting rationally to it. He thinks I'm a scummy person for lynching a SK ally instead of letting myself die - however, he's perfectly towny for panicking at the sight of two votes and using his one-shot to OMGUS. Do note that his reasons for suspecting me so far had been 'that guy just doesn't sit right with me.'Shakerag turned out to be anti-town. I trust my gut. It still says you're scum.
I'm going to unvote Nerjin and vote Flabort in the hope that his resurrect was a one-shot. I do still however want Nerjin to explain his attempted saving of Shakerag.
flabort:Wait, does that mean we have an SK? Great.Really. You want us to believe that you just now figured this out. "SKs? What SKs?! I don't know anything about SKs! Why I didn' even notice anything about SKs when the guy I suspected and helped murder flipped 'SK ALLY!'"C) I didn't want to be responsible for killing either of them if they wound up town.So your scummy, panicky, self-serving bullshit is perfectly understandable because you want to live and it "helps town," but Cheeetar's awfully suspicious for pulling the trigger on the gun you cocked for pretty much identical reasons?
G) Whoever cast the hammer vote would come under suspicion from the whole town.
Therefor, while it was a hasty and self-preserving action, there was plenty of reason behind it and I believed it would help town.
Maybe it did, but it means that you were the hang-man, the one with blood on your hands now.
Try living with that when it makes everyone suspicious of you.
@flabort: Rolefishing, I see... )How is asking how you know that rolefishing? Unless knowing that information is part of your role, how would you assume that I asked that because I was rolefishing?
Two killing teams as in teams that need to kill everyone.
Also, given an SK, I bet the third party is a survivor.
flabort: Did your one-shot target two or up to two targets? What would have happened if you applied an uneven number of votes to each, or tried to vote additional targets?I would interpret it as up to two targets.
FLABORT MUST READYou are entitled to your opinions. I am entitled to my opinions too, and if I choose to believe you are President Stalin For Life, you wouldn't be able to change that opinion. I choose to believe that you are working for the town, right now, but that you are very mistaken about who to pursue.
You hypocritical communist. I choose to believe you are entirely to blame, in order to set up the idea that it's been you the whole time
So now you're saying... what? I don't understand this talk of Unlucky and having nothing to lose but information, and you're saying you're not miller now?Tiruin I don't fully understand what you're saying but it's troubling me....Yeah, let's give me the finger without giving any more details than 'D: WAT U SAY'
>_>
It's troubling you, how.
Is that so easy to append?
An SK is such an underpowered alignment though. So easy for someone to accidentally kill the SK or find him out; almost impossible for the SK to win, even with their kills and other powers.
Flabort:How would an SK ally even work, anyways?Allies win when the people they're allied with win.
The SK would have to kill it's ally to win. Shakerag would have to die anyways for him to win.
Wait, does that mean we have an SK? Great.
Dying does not equal losing, unless you're the last member of your faction.
We have 17 players. Why did you think there wasn't an SK?
Not totally avoid responsibility, but yes, I guess that's a good summary.As for your question, I knew that:So you did it to draw attention away from yourself, get two other people lynched that weren't you and avoid responsibility for it. Nice try. Yeah, you need to be lynched.
A) I would die for reals if I was voted that day after being daykilled, because my revive would not have time to recharge.
B) Someone having more votes on them then me would make me safe. Yes, this was incredibly self-serving, but I feel like my powers could help town. Less so now that I've actually claimed them, but I think they can still help; turning the night game against Scum into an excruciating game of "Did I or didn't I, and if I did where?". Night WIFOM vs Scum, if you will.
C) I didn't want to be responsible for killing either of them if they wound up town.
D) I didn't want to cause a tie.
E) I essentially presented the two of them with a variation on Prisoner's Dilemma. If one votes the other, they survive the day. If anyone else considered them scummy, though, they didn't. If they managed to each vote each other simultaneously (they didn't), they'd both survive due to it becoming a tie and no-lynch.
F) I didn't trust either of them.
G) Whoever cast the hammer vote would come under suspicion from the whole town.
OK, but that means that it didn't interact with Varee's or Varee didn't target Toaster.Imp: I have not received a PM confirming or denying anything yet; I have not recieved information that would imply that I successfully copied the housing power onto myself. The power is not innately one of information, but I should learn about certain powers affecting me, such as if I gained a new ability like was implied by Varee.If you don't get a PM, it means your action was or seemed successful.
OK. He could have explained that that information was coming from Shake's powers. Instead of thinking it's rolefishing. How did he even come to that conclusion that that's what I was doing this time? He just assumed that because I do that a lot, that's what I was doing?It's called common sense. TolyK did the same exact thing in Jack's BYOR too. If there's a 17 player game, then either there is a large scumteam or multiple third parties. Only multiple third parties is more balanced and FUN. Also, Shakerag's role only allows one kill to occur, which means that at least two people have some form of kill. One of which we know is the SK, while the other is likely the Mafia or a Vigilante. Weren't you in Jack's BYOR? Stop trying to cast suspicion on other people.No, I'm just in a different time zone. GMT+2, 10am now.Where are you getting this information? How do you know there's another third party after the SK and SK-ally?
That's true, of course, which is something I might confirm only to me.
Also, we almost definitely have an SK, given an SK-ally (unless Wuba really is a bastard in regard to Shakerag :D), and we have another third party to be sure.
Given at least two killing teams, I'd guess we either have an arsonist or a really strange mafia kill.
How do you know there's two killing teams when there were no kills last night?
Because I had no idea about this. If I had known that hammer-ties do not result in a no-lynch, then hammering both of them would have been the better course of action, because now knowing this a lot of what I had said about not wanted to cause a tie is voided. I didn't know this at the time, though, so I thought if I had hammered them both, no-one would have died.Err.Webadict: Is this game restricted to One Lynch Per Day?No. But only in cases where two or more players are successfully Hammered. Ending the Day with equal votes less than Hammer is a No Lynch. Or those related to abilities, as always.
Flabort. Why was there only one person lynched?
PFP
See directly above.
Flabort: Why didn't you lynch both Cheeetar and Shakerag?
Flabort: If you're town, why didn't you simply hammer everybody but yourself?*facepalm* Because the ability only works on up to two people. It's part of the ability.
Flabort: If you're town, why didn't you simply hammer everybody but yourself?*facepalm* Because the ability only works on up to two people. It's part of the ability.
And oh boy would that ever be overpowered. "Here's an instant win button."
And also, see answer directly above.
Toaster, how could you assume that I could hammer everybody but myself?
Hapah - Kefka
Alignment: Town
Wincon: You win when all anti-Town factions are dead. (Mafia, Cult, SK, Lyncher, Assassin, and respective Allies and Brothers)
(1-Shot, Night) Demon: Blocks all actions used against you during this Night.
(1-Shot, Night) Fiend [target]: Delays the target. If the target is targeting you, they are blocked.
(1-Shot, Night) Goddess [target]: Target gains (Auto) Zombify: When you die, you revive once. If you are the target of a non-kill action, you die. Kill actions have no effect on you.
(99-Shot) Light of Judgment: This is only usable after you have used Demon, Fiend, and Goddess. You kill everyone else.
Here's my case against Flabort: [Cheetar's case] Do note that his reasons for suspecting me so far had been 'that guy just doesn't sit right with me.'. . . I trust my gut. It still says you're scum.
(a)I don't want to be seen as the one who pulled the trigger; I admit that I set up the situation. (B)But if I were to be the one that chose and killed a person, all on my own, that would be a jerk move; also, biased. (C) If this action still gets me killed, I still bring the person(s) that are most scummy with me.
Yes, I was panicking too. Somewhat. You don't gather ~5 votes, get daykilled, and then get the only votes so far back on you and not panic about that; someone wants you dead, and that someone is very determined. I want to be alive long enough to learn who.
And come on, a vote? "In the hopes that [my] revive was a one-shot"? My votes were a one-shot. My revive recharges.
OK, fine, my given reasons for voting [Cheetar] are a bit of a double standard. But I notice you [IronyOwl] voting him and finding him suspicious too.
So we both want to live and used that as our justification for yesterday. We still suspect each other and find each other to be scummy.
Quote from: NerjinFLABORT MUST READYou are entitled to your opinions. I am entitled to my opinions too, and if I choose to believe you are President Stalin For Life, you wouldn't be able to change that opinion. I choose to believe that you are working for the town, right now, but that you are very mistaken about who to pursue.
You hypocritical communist. I choose to believe you are entirely to blame, in order to set up the idea that it's been you the whole time
It's tickling my suspicion, and I don't understand the chaos of those posts. It's troubling me because you're saying something that directly affects how we perceive your alignment is changed.
Not totally avoid responsibility, but yes, I guess that's a good summary.As for your question, I knew that:So you did it to draw attention away from yourself, get two other people lynched that weren't you and avoid responsibility for it. Nice try. Yeah, you need to be lynched.
A) I would die for reals if I was voted that day after being daykilled, because my revive would not have time to recharge.
B) Someone having more votes on them then me would make me safe. Yes, this was incredibly self-serving, but I feel like my powers could help town. Less so now that I've actually claimed them, but I think they can still help; turning the night game against Scum into an excruciating game of "Did I or didn't I, and if I did where?". Night WIFOM vs Scum, if you will.
C) I didn't want to be responsible for killing either of them if they wound up town.
D) I didn't want to cause a tie.
E) I essentially presented the two of them with a variation on Prisoner's Dilemma. If one votes the other, they survive the day. If anyone else considered them scummy, though, they didn't. If they managed to each vote each other simultaneously (they didn't), they'd both survive due to it becoming a tie and no-lynch.
F) I didn't trust either of them.
G) Whoever cast the hammer vote would come under suspicion from the whole town.
If I missed anything please let me know.
I don't want to be seen as the one who pulled the trigger;
You...confuse me heavily.So now you're saying... what? I don't understand this talk of Unlucky and having nothing to lose but information, and you're saying you're not miller now?Tiruin I don't fully understand what you're saying but it's troubling me....Yeah, let's give me the finger without giving any more details than 'D: WAT U SAY'
>_>
It's troubling you, how.
Is that so easy to append?
It's tickling my suspicion, and I don't understand the chaos of those posts. It's troubling me because you're saying something that directly affects how we perceive your alignment is changed.
Because I had no idea about this. If I had known that hammer-ties do not result in a no-lynch[...], then hammering both of them would have been the better course of action, because now knowing this a lot of what I had said about not wanted to cause a tie is voided. I didn't know this at the time, though, so I thought if I had hammered them both, no-one would have died.But it wasn't a hammer-tie, was it?
Tiruin:Why're you telling this out loud, now?> I've lost my Miller ability (...yeah.)That was me testing to make sure you weren't fakeclaiming scum. You passed. It also is completely gone, not stolen.
Also, Flabort, you can revive several times?4maskwolf: Darvi, BYOR 7. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=81714.msg2323871#msg2323871) However, there, the revives were limited more strongly and each death (which would happen at least once a cycle after the first kill) would drain him of the ability to use his other powers/his other powers would drain his life.
Yeah, that doesn't sound like something Wuba would give a townie.
Someone day killed me. A day kill is not a town power.flabort: Dariush, BYOR 8. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=99587.msg3024926#msg3024926) Also, stop it with the slippery slope absence argument. It doesn't work at all.
So 25% of 19 is uh, 5? 4?Cheeetar: There's only 17 slots in this game.
Day ends Thursday 7 PMish CST.Webadict: That is an error, right?
EBWOPBecause when things are a confusing mess, I like to help fix it when I can.Tiruin:Why're you telling this out loud, now?> I've lost my Miller ability (...yeah.)That was me testing to make sure you weren't fakeclaiming scum. You passed. It also is completely gone, not stolen.
I'm confused by what you're saying here, and I think its because you're misunderstanding what happened yesterday.QuoteBecause I had no idea about this. If I had known that hammer-ties do not result in a no-lynch[...], then hammering both of them would have been the better course of action, because now knowing this a lot of what I had said about not wanted to cause a tie is voided. I didn't know this at the time, though, so I thought if I had hammered them both, no-one would have died.But it wasn't a hammer-tie, was it?
Someone got lynched. Shakerag got lynched.
And I can't view the votecount back then right now so excuse me if there's one extra vote that made Shakerag > that other target you got there.
Also...you had no idea because you thought the description of the ability was clear-cut?
Do note: No-lynch hammer ties were mentioned when the votes were BELOW THE HAMMER COUNT.
The hammer had fallen back then.
PFP
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf -
Cheeetar - flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort,
flabort - Nerjin,
Imp -
IronyOwl -
Jack A T -
Mysteriousbluepuppet -
Nerjin -
notquitethere -
Persus13 -
Scripten -
Shakerag - flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, Cheeetar,
Silthuri -
Tiruin -
Toaster -
TolyK -
Varee -
Not Voting - Imp, Mysteriousbluepuppet, Silthuri, Toaster, TolyK, Varee, Tiruin, 4maskwolf, Jack A T, notquitethere, Persus13, Shakerag, IronyOwl, Scripten,
9 To Hammer. Day ends Thursday 7 PMish CST.
And yes, that's a town role....there had to be something else in play in order to make that balanced. Though that's not an instant win. He had to use all three of his other abilities, and I'm guessing that he could only use one per night. That essentially makes his power "Town is Watcher 4 if you stay alive".
Forgot to mention this bit:Fine. Guilty as charged, it was self-serving. Still town. Still not lying in anything I've said.
Flabort:I don't want to be seen as the one who pulled the trigger;
This is incredibly self-serving.
Well... You missed my entire argument. Well, not so much missed as dismissed. How about you respond to it in a rational manner instead of making the childish retort of "No it isn't".Let me think of a way to best answer that then.
Quote from: President StalinWell... You missed my entire argument. Well, not so much missed as dismissed. How about you respond to it in a rational manner instead of making the childish retort of "No it isn't".Let me think of a way to best answer that then.
But how can you pretend to hate communism so much when you're the head of Russia?
But seriously, how can you be so blind to the truth? Drop your "president" act and tell me exactly what you think of each player right now, how they can or could relate to me or Cheeetar, and what the results tell you.
I guess I can get lynched and killed if it will tell you the truth about who's who and what's what.
Cheeetar is the SK. Nerjin is Scum with a night kill and a once-per-day vote reset, plus the one-shot daykill. Jack A T is his scumbuddy. Scripten is either a third scum or another third party.
Your case on me is that I am a big fat hypocrite, and that I am not genuinely scum hunting. Tell me if this is accurate, and then tell me I haven't been hunting for scum.
I'd rather give more time for Scripten to examine TolyK if Scripten chooses to chase this further without this possibly clouding reactions, if Scripten was just being indirect about beginning to explore it, but day end nears and I don't know if work will allow me much time to post again before day is over. I wrote it yesterday, after reading the post I quote that I say blew my mind, and haven't changed it since.I... don't understand what blows your mind. I voted, there were more votes behind me. I did not remember what exactly was happening 4.5 hours before. Is that what does it?
« Reply #296 on: Today at 11:32:39 am »flabort, why are you giving your role name away to people (slowly but surely)?TolyK: You seem relatively happy to jump on the Flabort wagon. What makes Flabort's role talk more dangerous to the town or more scummy than everyone else's?« Reply #316 on: Today at 03:55:22 pm »There was a flabort wagon? When I voted?
As far as I remember, when I voted flabort with a random vote people were taking about millers...
TolyK, your answer just blew my mind.
That I can see, you've voted once this entire game. 4.5 hours before being asked about your vote. Yours was the second vote on flabort, and there's 4 votes now.
I don't see a flabort wagon, though one may have begun; momentum can happen. notquitethere seems concerned about a possible flabort wagon too.
TolyK: I find your contribution to the flabort wagon troubling. You voted for flabort (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5563668#msg5563668) for his apparent effort to give away his role name. How is this scummy?I was... second on the bandwagon. I voted him with minimal evidence to pressure vote him and hopefully get more out of him. Evidently, he has incriminated himself even more.
Later, you, when asked to explain your "shooting from the hip" targets (which did not include flabort), came out with this:He's worth the vote for rolefishing, and now even more for causing a bull fight to save his own skin, and even more for being very defensive and OMGUS-ing Nerjin. (SORRY TIRUIN FOR TERM MISUSE :P)@jack I hipfire horribly, so those are more or less random picks. They're the names that came up after more or less re-skimming though the material....but what do you think? Why do you think he is worth your vote?
Flabort, who I've already voted, had since taken the front scene.
Since that post, you've taken a few (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5564339#msg5564339) short jabs at (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5564477#msg5564477) flabort, but have never really brought together a case against him. You're sort of sitting back on the bandwagon.a) It continues the pressure, andMost of my case on Flabort:...And? What makes this scummy?This is obviously not a satisfactory answer, since you typically play to win as well, and this could be detrimental to that fact.flabort, why are you giving your role name away to people (slowly but surely)?Because it's fun.
Well um...Also, Flabort, you can revive several times?4maskwolf: Darvi, BYOR 7. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=81714.msg2323871#msg2323871) However, there, the revives were limited more strongly and each death (which would happen at least once a cycle after the first kill) would drain him of the ability to use his other powers/his other powers would drain his life.
Yeah, that doesn't sound like something Wuba would give a townie.Someone day killed me. A day kill is not a town power.flabort: Dariush, BYOR 8. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=99587.msg3024926#msg3024926)
I was... second on the bandwagon.
Did Wuba scale down how powerful the roles were, or was I just given a weak role? I'm specifically looking at Dariush's role: immune to kills and can cause all powers targeting someone else to target him? Impressive... Unlike my rather unimpressive role (at least powerwise).
Also, don't under- or overestimate your abilities.
*NQT, aside from the Tiruin scuffle, has largely contributed in a way that could easily be replaced by an NQTbot that occasionally pops up to tell us to stop voting for an active player and vote for an inactive one. Which feels wrong, considering that would be, in most circumstances, just a bad caricature of him. He gives me the feel of someone coasting through the game, not engaging with the cases he opposes and not making cases against the people he says he wants to lynch. He seems to be, to put it simply, not quite here.This is exactly the case. I've been overwhelmed with a lot of other things. Now CYOM2 has ended, I'm going to give this more focus, starting with tonight... I've survived until Day 2 which means *rolls up sleeves in real life* time for some analysis.
TolyK:I currently don't suspect anyone but Flabort, but I haven't read everything yet. I just said that.flabort, why are you giving your role name away to people (slowly but surely)?
This is the sum total of your vote history. Beyond that, I can't really find you pursuing targets with any real interest. Who do you suspect now and why? Does your suspicion of Flabort still hold?
I'm certainly suspicious of Cheetar, but Flabort shows himself to be much more scummy by this play in my book. I suppose you could say I agree with Cheetar, but only on a superficial level.
Also: huzzah for no night deaths! We're doing something right.
I might be able to confirm a townie.
I'll say that a SK is pretty much a given in a large game like this one. You need it.
Cheeetar, if another player had made the choice you did at the end of D1, what questions would you want to ask that player? Do you consider 'acting to save oneself' to be appropriate for every player under every condition of high pressure/immediate threat of death?
Not for every circumstance, but if a townie is given a choice between themselves dying and somebody else who they don't really know anything about yet dying, the townie should probably pick the other dude. Is this a controversial view?
No, my one-shot is Vote-ato, and I'll prove that it's not clearing the board by simultaneously voting Cheeetar and Shakerag.
Oh, yeah, and now I need to do both simultaneously it seems.
Cheetar, shakerag
B) Someone having more votes on them then me would make me safe.
C) I didn't want to be responsible for killing either of them if they wound up town.
D) I didn't want to cause a tie.
G) Whoever cast the hammer vote would come under suspicion from the whole town.
Therefor, while it was a hasty and self-preserving action, there was plenty of reason behind it and I believed it would help town.
Imp, TolyK, CAPTAIN EAGLES, Varee: If you were in Cheeetar or Shakerag's position yesterday, would you have hammered the other choice as quickly as you could have? If you'd gotten on before either of them, would you have immediately hammered whichever one of them you liked or trusted least? Why?
so someone get the house. I will be real happy if whoever got it said so. Also on second thought it might not be a house. more like toilet or something.
A better question is this:
Flabort: If you're town, why didn't you simply hammer everybody but yourself?
Imp, TolyK, CAPTAIN EAGLES, Varee: If you were in Cheeetar or Shakerag's position yesterday, would you have hammered the other choice as quickly as you could have? If you'd gotten on before either of them, would you have immediately hammered whichever one of them you liked or trusted least? Why?Actually, it isn't prisoners dilemma in that both players could call each other in, not was it a simultaneous game. (this is in response to Imp's post as well). It's a sequential game of inequality, all of us are players and only two would be punished completely. Thus, hammering is the only option in this scenario.
Imp, I said it to attract the scum kill, obviously. Depends on how much they want to WIFOM, to be honest.
I'll say that a SK is pretty much a given in a large game like this one. You need it.Please explain why an SK is needed in a large game like this one. Who needs an SK?
TolyK:That's...Imp, I said it to attract the scum kill, obviously. Depends on how much they want to WIFOM, to be honest.
Thanks. Why did you only answer one of my questions? Here's a repost of the unanswered one.I'll say that a SK is pretty much a given in a large game like this one. You need it.Please explain why an SK is needed in a large game like this one. Who needs an SK?
That's...
Mysteriousbluepuppet said that, not TolyK...
I'll say that a SK is pretty much a given in a large game like this one. You need it.
Who needs an SK?The sk-ally :D
Okay, I'm not gonna roleplay this one either.Going after the greater unknown that is still scummy. I believe that Cheeetar and Flabort are both scum, but I'd rather have the scum I know last another day than the scum whose powers I don't know, and who may not have burned any powerful one-shots they have. That's the reason my vote remains on Cheeetar.
Are you serious?
Go after a greater unknown? Obviously we are each really certain that he's scum. Why in the hell would we go after someone else that we think isn't as scummy?
"Oh dear, I think Vector is scum! I better vote Wuba!"
Explain why that makes sense.
Okay, I'm not gonna roleplay this one either.I'm giving MY rationale for why I believe that it is a better choice. I'm not trying to tell the town to vote him: I'm stating MY reasons for not voting Flabort and instead proposing another target. Basically, I'd rather see Cheeetar be lynched (unless he convinces me otherwise, or at the very least assuages my suspicions), but I think that Flabort is scum as well and would be almost as happy with his lynch.
Are you serious?
Go after a greater unknown? Obviously we are each really certain that he's scum. Why in the hell would we go after someone else that we think isn't as scummy?
"Oh dear, I think Vector is scum! I better vote Wuba!"
Explain why that makes sense.
Yes... Because Flabort has told us all of their abilities.It's my contention that he did not have to hammer vote. I'm trying to get to the bottom of the logic that says "well, me and another person are at L-1, let's hammer him quickly". Because that makes no sense to me as town logic.
Explain again your case on Cheetar? He's scum because... Flabort essentially forced him to hammer vote?
I guess I can get lynched and killed if it will tell you the truth about who's who and what's what.Hold on a moment, how can you make such bold pronouncements? Where are you pulling these hyper-precise claims from? Not from your three claimed powers, that's for sure. Speak quick, you're at L-1 by my count.
Cheeetar is the SK. Nerjin is Scum with a night kill and a once-per-day vote reset, plus the one-shot daykill. Jack A T is his scumbuddy. Scripten is either a third scum or another third party.
I do think I know who isn't scum.Please enlighten us!
Everyone not voting Flabort: What do you think of the arguments for lynching Flabort? Why do you believe a different target would be a better choice?He's probably a spent force, power-wise, but he's also incredibly sketchy. I wouldn't be sad to see him go, but I'd rather get rid of players that are trying to coast along.
I believe that Cheeetar and Flabort are both scumSo you think Flabort colluded with Cheetah in scum chat to put him at L-1 so he could then do the hammering. It's possible.
Nerjin, behind your Presidential bluster you've been light on cases of substance. What do you think of the players that have received less attention like Irony, Imp, MPB?
Silthuri, by my count you made one case on Day 1 and have done bugger all of use today. Unless I'm missing something? Please point out a recent contribution you've made that brings us closer to lynching scum.
I've been overwhelmed with a lot of other things. Now CYOM2 has ended, I'm going to give this more focus, starting with tonight... I've survived until Day 2 which means *rolls up sleeves in real life* time for some analysis.
This is getting ridiculous. Flabort is OMGUS-y scum and I'm becoming more and more certain that 4mask is his scumbuddy. (Can you summarize your suspicions? The thread is really long and my time is limited lately. Would be appreciative.)Lolz if I was his scumbuddy my vote would be solidly stuck on him. You were in the last game I was scum, you saw what I did to my scumbuddies.
Wolf, your play always sets off alarm bells for me but it's doing it double. Your Day 1 play was soft balls, soft balls everywhere. Like here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5554942#msg5554942) where you drop a nascent case on Cheetah for another RVS question vote. Who's the worst player in the game right now?Well, obviously I'm the worst player. I always am. But other than me... worst as in poor play or worst as in not doing anything worth a damn. Because I have two different answers, depending.Everyone not voting Flabort: What do you think of the arguments for lynching Flabort? Why do you believe a different target would be a better choice?He's probably a spent force, power-wise, but he's also incredibly sketchy. I wouldn't be sad to see him go, but I'd rather get rid of players that are trying to coast along.I believe that Cheeetar and Flabort are both scumSo you think Flabort colluded with Cheetah in scum chat to put him at L-1 so he could then do the hammering. It's possible.
FlabortObservation of the individuals, responses to tests (such as my name-calling), their reactions to events (Nerjin's subtle reaction to the daykill cinched the belief that it's his), vote analysis. More background work then abilities or question asking. Subtly manipulating one person to ignore another and looking at their reaction when this person is brought back into their perception.I guess I can get lynched and killed if it will tell you the truth about who's who and what's what.Hold on a moment, how can you make such bold pronouncements? Where are you pulling these hyper-precise claims from? Not from your three claimed powers, that's for sure. Speak quick, you're at L-1 by my count.
Cheeetar is the SK. Nerjin is Scum with a night kill and a once-per-day vote reset, plus the one-shot daykill. Jack A T is his scumbuddy. Scripten is either a third scum or another third party.
Light on... Are you... Have you READ my posts? I've been making post after post discussing [logically mind you] why Flabort is scum. As for those three? I don't have a read on them.Yeah, what I'm saying is you've been very tunnely. Now you'll be super vindicated if Flabort does flip scum, but if he doesn't you'll have wasted two days ignoring everyone else.
I'd like to ask what contributions YOU'VE made to finding scum though since you apparently believe yourself to have done such an excellent job.Quite the contrary, I admitted I'd not been giving this game my full focus. I've still managed to develop a few lines of suspicion. I gave Tiruin's claim a good grilling and I'm beginning to get back on track again.
I don't see a case here. I see no analysis. I see a bunch of lame duck questions where you just sorta lob stuff at the wall to see what sticks. You've said, time and again, that you want to 'kill people who are coasting along'. That's fine and good. EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE ACTING LIKE SCUM ALREADY!!!Flabort's at L-1, I'm not going to hammer him right now. So I'm questioning him. I'm developing cases, sure my cases are mostly such-and-such a player is not really contributing but being unable to form suspicions and place votes outside of RVS is the big scum tell. I've looked over a lot of games to ascertain this. But I'm glad you're getting riled up. Says good things about your engagement. You've got a lot of investment in this.
Should we just not lynch suspicious people, who are actively posting suspicious things, in favor of the people who aren't posting at all? That seems rather like coasting by to me.
Maybe make a case as for why we should ignore players like Flabort and instead focus on people who aren't posting anything one way or the other.It's more that, I don't want to focus solely on Flabort. Manipulating the attention of the town is how scum survive until the mid to late game with very little scrutiny. Also, I believe Flabort's power claims, so killing him would net me less info than someone else.
I guess I can get lynched and killed if it will tell you the truth about who's who and what's what.
Cheeetar is the SK. Nerjin is Scum with a night kill and a once-per-day vote reset, plus the one-shot daykill. Jack A T is his scumbuddy. Scripten is either a third scum or another third party.
Lolz if I was his scumbuddy my vote would be solidly stuck on him. You were in the last game I was scum, you saw what I did to my scumbuddies.
Yeah, my count was off. Jack was voting Flabort yesterday but hasn't done so today. Why no votes, Jack?As was TolyK. So I'd like him to answer the same question.
I missed this.What? How does that follow?Imp, TolyK, CAPTAIN EAGLES, Varee: If you were in Cheeetar or Shakerag's position yesterday, would you have hammered the other choice as quickly as you could have? If you'd gotten on before either of them, would you have immediately hammered whichever one of them you liked or trusted least? Why?Actually, it isn't prisoners dilemma in that both players could call each other in, not was it a simultaneous game. (this is in response to Imp's post as well). It's a sequential game of inequality, all of us are players and only two would be punished completely. Thus, hammering is the only option in this scenario.
Everyone not voting Flabort: What do you think of the arguments for lynching Flabort? Why do you believe a different target would be a better choice?I think they're pretty solid in general, though I strongly disagree with the "everything Cheeetar did is flabort's fault because he had absolutely no choice" line of reasoning. It also loosely feels like there's something more bold about flabort's panicking than Cheeetar's, which pushes my own suspicions closer to Cheeetar.
Ironyowl, your flying just below the radar, with a damn narrow focus. I don't trust you. Tell me one thing that's happening in this game that I should be paying attention to.You seem to have covered all the ones I know of. Cheeetar's being incredibly self-serving, flabort's crashing and burning, Varee's being useless and I haven't had a chance to go back and see how normal that is...
flabort:Because I thought the win-con on a SK-ally was impossible to fulfill, forgetting that it's possible after death.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Hmmm... so I'm not at T-1 like suspected, but T-4. That's some nice subtle manipulation yourself, there, NQT. A bit of a lie, too, but it could be a mistake.Honest mistake. You had eight votes on you according to the lurker tracker, and I'd already discounted Shakerag's. Turned out a few more of them were from Day 1.
NotQuiteThere: I didn't keep them on the computer, and I lack a scanner at the moment, but I can copy a cleaned up summary of the analyisis (started a bit too late I admit) to this spoiler for you:Thanks! It's good to see you've put in the work. I can guarantee that some of your conclusions will be false, but at least they're not coming out of nowhere. So, by your own analysis, Nerjin is hardly the scummiest player. He's tunnelling you sure, but is your vote anything other than an OMGUS?
I can guarantee that some of your conclusions will be false, but at least they're not coming out of nowhere.
Persus13, Scripten, I don't have anything to say to you two right now. Do you have anything to say to me?Yeah, I asked you some questions, one of them being a comment on you being really lenient this game. Can you answer or point to the post where you answered that?
Everyone voting Flabort: What are your points against him? What alignment do you believe him to be?Trying to duck responsibility for lynching his top suspects, and acting extremely panicky D1. I believe he's anti-town
And because I've put up those notes and revealed my act of subtly manipulating people to not notice each other, I think it's time to bring people to each other's attention.
Cheeetar Could you tell me more about Persus?
Post before last.And because I've put up those notes and revealed my act of subtly manipulating people to not notice each other, I think it's time to bring people to each other's attention.
You did that at some point? I'm not seeing it.
Post before last.And because I've put up those notes and revealed my act of subtly manipulating people to not notice each other, I think it's time to bring people to each other's attention.
You did that at some point? I'm not seeing it.
I'll say that a SK is pretty much a given in a large game like this one. You need it.
MysteriousBluePuppet How do you feel about IronyOwl?Nothing particular. I played with him a few years back. Looks like a stand-up fella.
MBP, yeah I get the fact you're replacing in and Jiokuy didn't even post, but your grace period is now up. Make a case!Still getting up to speed. The fact this day started while i was doing a graveyard shift back to back ain't helping it. Right now i see people getting all up on Flabort wich is understandable yet reeks of bussing ( When scum all vote a guy to look neat, my terms are rusty. Correct me if wrong). Flabort already revealed his role, so personally i'd wait maybe a day. He'll probably be pelted by cops and disables.
Scripten Tell me what you can about Imp so far.
Basically, I'd rather see Cheeetar be lynched (unless he convinces me otherwise, or at the very least assuages my suspicions)
Post before last.And because I've put up those notes and revealed my act of subtly manipulating people to not notice each other, I think it's time to bring people to each other's attention.
You did that at some point? I'm not seeing it.
I don't see any 'subtle manipulation' mentioned at all. Maybe it was too subtle for even you to explain normally?
Subtly manipulating one person to ignore another and looking at their reaction when this person is brought back into their perception.
This response feels a bit lacking, but is about what I expected from MBP at this time. However, MBP, I expect you will think about this question and give a longer answer later.QuoteMysteriousBluePuppet How do you feel about IronyOwl?Nothing particular. I played with him a few years back. Looks like a stand-up fella.
This response is also what I expected. Except for the abbr.Scripten Tell me what you can about Imp so far.
Looks town to me. So far I've seen mostly vanilla scumhunting from him. (Her? I saw a her before, but that might've been a typo.) It's a really big game, and I'll admit to being overwhelmed and outpaced by many of you. Imp seems to be holding their own, though I haven't seen anyone make a serious play toward them.
Now, mind explaining why you felt the need to derail people onto others to break up the concerted push toward yourself? I dislike deflection without reason. If you want to scumhunt, then do so, but don't try to defend yourself by slaving us to your purpose.
TolyK:Unless you make the first move, others make the first move. The outcome heavily depends on who moves first. Agreeing amongst everyone to not lynch is nearly impossible (though hammering would be incriminating to people not on the hammering block), while having the other person hammer you is bad for whatever alignment because they might not br (or are definitely not) your alignment, and given everyone being more or less equal in terms of power, hammering would be the optimal choice in both game theory and statistics.I missed this.What? How does that follow?Imp, TolyK, CAPTAIN EAGLES, Varee: If you were in Cheeetar or Shakerag's position yesterday, would you have hammered the other choice as quickly as you could have? If you'd gotten on before either of them, would you have immediately hammered whichever one of them you liked or trusted least? Why?Actually, it isn't prisoners dilemma in that both players could call each other in, not was it a simultaneous game. (this is in response to Imp's post as well). It's a sequential game of inequality, all of us are players and only two would be punished completely. Thus, hammering is the only option in this scenario.
Everyone not voting Flabort: What do you think of the arguments for lynching Flabort? Why do you believe a different target would be a better choice?4maskwolf: Flabort's most likely scum of some variety (mafia or third party). However, he's getting close to a hammer and I'd rather avoid hammering early D2, particularly against someone who is less likely to die when lynched than most players. Also, I'm leaning third party on him (powers seem a bit much for the mafia), and would rather catch the mafia.
Jack, your playing fine. Do I have any outstanding questions from you?NQT: No. Let's make a couple. What do you think of Cheeetar's reasons not to lynch him? Are your reads of Persus and Scripten null?
Yeah, my count was off. Jack was voting Flabort yesterday but hasn't done so today. Why no votes, Jack?I'm not willing, at this time, to vote Flabort. He's my top suspect, but I wish to avoid drawing us close to a hammer this early in the day. With regards to other players, I had not had the chance to do a good examination of those who had caught my attention when I first posted today (bad headache, bad internet...), and decided to leave my vote for when I could place it effectively.
Cheeetar is the SK. Nerjin is Scum with a night kill and a once-per-day vote reset, plus the one-shot daykill. Jack A T is his scumbuddy. Scripten is either a third scum or another third party.flabort: Lovely. A quadruple OMGUS sans evidence. Cut the posturing.
And because I've put up those notes and revealed my act of subtly manipulating people to not notice each other,Cut the bad jokes too.
Jack A T What do you think of 4mask now? You've been unusually quite about most issues, I'd think you'd have your feet wet instead of just your toes.4mask has improved significantly this game since his Day 1 slump, and his attitude appears to have changed for the better. He's begun scumhunting semi-effectively, with some reasonably good work with Cheeetar. Problem is, that's been his only real target for scumhunting today, and he hasn't done much of it. Mild scum read.
In hindsight? Of course I'm glad he did what he did- he killed a SK ally and he outed himself as scum (in my eyes) because of his terrible reasoning for what he did.Cheeetar: Would it be correct to say that you consider flabort to be fully to blame for the Shakerag lynch? Also, please summarize your defense against IronyOwl.
I'd like to ask what contributions YOU'VE made to finding scum though since you apparently believe yourself to have done such an excellent job....you drag in an element you should know to be untrue. I say you should know because the very next thing in your post is you seemingly selectively quoting much of the post that proves the above assertion false. I say "seemingly selectively quoting" because you omitted only the part that proves your accusation false.
I was... second on the bandwagon. I voted him with minimal evidence to pressure vote him and hopefully get more out of him. Evidently, he has incriminated himself even more.TolyK: See, I don't have a problem with when you joined the wagon. What I have a problem with, TolyK, is how you contributed, not when you joined. You came in, voted flabort with minimal evidence (you say it was a pressure vote), and then mostly just sat back and watched. You were part of the push, but not really participating in the push. Your vote was there, but little more. And when that's basically all your scumhunting so far, there's something wrong.
It is good to see this strong statement of your opinion. Flabort, you say, is very much worth your vote.Quote from: Jack A T...but what do you think? Why do you think he is worth your vote?He's worth the vote for rolefishing, and now even more for causing a bull fight to save his own skin, and even more for being very defensive and OMGUS-ing Nerjin.
Not Voting - Imp, Mysteriousbluepuppet, Silthuri, TolyK, Varee, Jack A TSo much so that you're not voting for him. Or, for that matter, anyone. Why are you sitting back and coasting through the game with little scumhunting? Why is your only vote so far in this entire game such a halfhearted one? Why are you not voting the person you say is very much worth your vote?
I do think I know who isn't scum.
@question to spill the beans on townies:...Huh? What information do you feel comfortable giving about this?
I could, if you want. Bread crumbs are harder to do. But I don't know enough townies yet, and an not sure if them all.
I have a couple of theories on no night deaths, but I'll wait until tomorrow to tell you all them (tomorrow as in tomorrow, not as in day 3).
He had the good sense to set it up but not actually fire. If he'd panicked all the way, he could have just hammered a target, any target, all on his own. Instead he set up a loaded gun at each of two suspects, and left it up to everyone else as to which or any trigger they wanted to pull. Meaning, nominally, to the town collectively.
I'd rather lynch Toaster, who's yet to place a vote despite saying he will (ok, in fairness, the quicklynch probably happened before he got a chance). I want to see whether he's able to press a case today.
A better question is this:
Flabort: If you're town, why didn't you simply hammer everybody but yourself?
So for reals, who do you suspect and why?
Toaster, does your gut still say Flabort like it did yesterday?
Also on second thought it might not be a house. more like toilet or something.
Well. Two of us lynched what was probably the best possible lynch target D1 based on less than no evidence.
I... don't understand what blows your mind. I voted, there were more votes behind me. I did not remember what exactly was happening 4.5 hours before. Is that what does it?
I haven't read everything yet. I just said that.
Everyone voting Flabort: What are your points against him? What alignment do you believe him to be?
Everyone not voting Flabort: What do you think of the arguments for lynching Flabort? Why do you believe a different target would be a better choice?
Imp, you can be thorough when you want to be but who are you going to vote today?
Please explain why you voted for ToasterD1D2 with the given reasons, then appear to so completely change direction in regards to him.
TolyK:It was a random vote with pressure attached, a weak accusation to start a question barrage.I... don't understand what blows your mind. I voted, there were more votes behind me. I did not remember what exactly was happening 4.5 hours before. Is that what does it?Would you say you don't really follow the thread?I haven't read everything yet. I just said that.
What blew my mind was your use of language and timing. People had mostly stopped talking about millers for over a day at the time you voted, so when you voted, no, people weren't talking about millers. That combined with your use of past tense, 'as far as I remember', 'when I voted', and 'random vote', to me that sounded like an attempt to make your 4.5 hour old vote sound like something from over a day before, back when people were talking about millers and when random votes were the only votes there were.
I didn't take your vote for a random vote at all; you even gave it a reason that didn't sound random in the slightest, for all it was a one-liner.
Given that you're not reading 'the whole thread', I guess you just grabbed bits of stuff that caught your eye while you skimmed, and you randomly grabbed flabbort's talk about his role as something to vote and ask about? And you honestly meant what you said, 'people still talking about millers', because to you they were, you hadn't bothered to track the thread for over a day, really, so you just assumed that was still a topic?
Nerjin: Now this is quite the reaction (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5573320#msg5573320). In response to a small jab about your cases, you snap at NQT and spend several lines accusing him of hypocrisy. And best of all...I'd like to ask what contributions YOU'VE made to finding scum though since you apparently believe yourself to have done such an excellent job....you drag in an element you should know to be untrue. I say you should know because the very next thing in your post is you seemingly selectively quoting much of the post that proves the above assertion false. I say "seemingly selectively quoting" because you omitted only the part that proves your accusation false.
So. Would you be so kind as to tell me what it is about the attention of NQT that so scares you? Would you mind explaining the assertion that NQT believes himself to have done an excellent job this game?
Not likely scum, though, because it would be OP for a lylo breaking power like that.
NQT:Well, he made a case in the interim, and his lack of engagement was what I'd voted him over and there were stronger candidates after that. In the early game, I see a large part of my mafia role in not only finding scum, but cajoling town players to play better (I'm not implying I play perfectly all the time myself, when I'm short on time my play suffers accordingly). He began a case on Scripten which showed at least a modicum of effort, effort that a few of the other players (like Varee) hadn't even managed. I didn't directly respond to his question (not deliberately, I was just looking at other things in my read through), but I answered it with my actions anyway.Please explain why you voted for ToasterD1D2 with the given reasons, then appear to so completely change direction in regards to him.
I only meant that he couldn't reliably draw such strong conclusions from such weak premises and so he's bound to be wrong about at least some of the claims.I can guarantee that some of your conclusions will be false, but at least they're not coming out of nowhere.Do you mean false as in his reasoning was genuine, but conclusions inaccurate, or false as in you think he's making up his conclusions and lying about what he claims to think?
Yeah, I asked you some questions, one of them being a comment on you being really lenient this game. Can you answer or point to the post where you answered that?Some reasons that we use to sink our teeth into players aren't actual scumtells and it's important to recognise this to minimise false positives. On what point do you think I'm being too lenient?
Still getting up to speed. The fact this day started while i was doing a graveyard shift back to back ain't helping it. Right now i see people getting all up on Flabort wich is understandable yet reeks of bussing ( When scum all vote a guy to look neat, my terms are rusty. Correct me if wrong). Flabort already revealed his role, so personally i'd wait maybe a day. He'll probably be pelted by cops and disables.When you're all rested, I'd be interested to see who you'd think would make a better alternative right now.
NQT: No. Let's make a couple. What do you think of Cheeetar's reasons not to lynch him? Are your reads of Persus and Scripten null?Cheetah thinks he's nailed obvscum, what I think about that depends on what Cheetah's alignment is.
I'm not willing, at this time, to vote Flabort. He's my top suspect, but I wish to avoid drawing us close to a hammer this early in the day. With regards to other players, I had not had the chance to do a good examination of those who had caught my attention when I first posted today (bad headache, bad internet...), and decided to leave my vote for when I could place it effectively.That's reasonable enough I suppose. No need for another quickhammer.
And yes, I've been persecuting third parties in this game for several reasons.3rd party hunting is a typical 3rd party trait. Are you a 3rd party?
we are in wuba houseyeah thqat kinda make sense and we all went to toilet so I think It might have been a toilet rather than a house. Not about dump or shit or other meaning toilet may refer too....
If you were in shake situa blah blah blahWell If i was in that situation I think I would have done what cheetar did. I dont see it as selfish or anything but It survivor right? I dont think both guy have the reason to believe that the other is town or will likely help their wincon if they kill them self instead of hammering the other party. (I hope you guys understand this)
Targeting someoneWell I was hoping on someone actually telling me what the freaking house do but it seem liek whoever got it is keeping quiet.... I Was going to make it sound Like i random the target so I can maybe figure out a lie or something.....
Voting flabort blah blah blahI Believe that lynching flabort is a waste of lynch.... He seem to just get back up. I have a feeling he is like an annoying role that wouldnt really die....
neijinHis roleplaying is amusing but for his content and stuff... I have a feeling he have a day power or some thing about president order. I still doubt that he is really a president though.
Now, Flabort, did you use a night power, and who did you target? Don't say what you did exactly, just those two. If you prefer, you may refuse to answer, but given your playfulness I would guess you would want to comply. It could confirm or break a suspicion I have...Yes, Toaster.
No, I'm not. I'm hunting whoever I find easiest to hunt for me personally. Getting more bang for the buck, so to say.Careful. That's close to being lazy about hunting; being lazy about hunting is a scum tell. So be careful when you say things like that.
Yes yes yes, I understand you say you've done it. You haven't got much to back it up there, though.That's kind of difficult to prove without ruining the results. However, go back and take a look at some people you haven't been thinking about or dismissed as non-issues/town. Think about when you would have focused on them, and look to see if I have a post near that point; odds are, it's the post that starts people voting for me.
Assuming he got lynch and he use his power you would have to kill his target too to kill him unless someone can stop him from using power.... Which is unlkely as it would be a waste without a blockI like how you're talking about getting the mafia to help the town to kill me, or vice versa. Unless there's a vig, but that's an assumption that we can't make yet.
Still i find it hard to lynch flabort.is that you don't want to kill me.
I have Latvian Dream (I barely understand where this power is coming from after a google search). Using it makes me immune to all incoming powers, but I need to select a target. Any powers targeting this target (was going to be Toaster) also target me. Also, the target's own powers are unblockable, unredirectable, unrandomizable, giving the target a power buff for that night.So, you targeted Toaster this night, which made him true-hit his target and made you invulnerable to actions other than those copied from Toaster.
4maskwolf What is your opinion on what he has done since Jack A T unvoted you?Jack A T is one of the two people who I almost invariably end up reading as town. Frankly, I'll have to go back and look at what he's done. If people aren't directly engaging me, I tend not to notice their contributions as much.
...You could read my post(s) about why I suspect Cheeetar. However, his posts seem mostly well thought out and make sense, so I'm going to Unvote Cheeetar for now.Basically, I'd rather see Cheeetar be lynched (unless he convinces me otherwise, or at the very least assuages my suspicions)
This. What suspicions of Cheetar? (I would have thought this was obvious, but my bad for not directly quoting you.) Also, last game was massively different form this one. Plus, if you were a one-trick pony, you wouldn't be so self-aware with regard to it. Your defense is weak.
Currently, no. Tomorrow, I'm going to go back, read the thread, and see if anything jumps out at me. Frankly, work has been hella busy this week and I haven't had much time to play mafia or to think things through.Everyone not voting Flabort: What do you think of the arguments for lynching Flabort? Why do you believe a different target would be a better choice?4maskwolf: Flabort's most likely scum of some variety (mafia or third party). However, he's getting close to a hammer and I'd rather avoid hammering early D2, particularly against someone who is less likely to die when lynched than most players. Also, I'm leaning third party on him (powers seem a bit much for the mafia), and would rather catch the mafia.
Do you have any suspects other than Cheeetar and flabort? If so, why do you suspect them? If you don't have any other suspects, why not? How have your Day 1 suspicions held up?
4maskwolf:Bluh. Sorry, totally spaced on that promise.I have a couple of theories on no night deaths, but I'll wait until tomorrow to tell you all them (tomorrow as in tomorrow, not as in day 3).
Did you elaborate on this already, or change your mind about it?
...You could read my post(s) about why I suspect Cheeetar. However, his posts seem mostly well thought out and make sense, so I'm going to Unvote Cheeetar for now.Basically, I'd rather see Cheeetar be lynched (unless he convinces me otherwise, or at the very least assuages my suspicions)
This. What suspicions of Cheetar? (I would have thought this was obvious, but my bad for not directly quoting you.) Also, last game was massively different form this one. Plus, if you were a one-trick pony, you wouldn't be so self-aware with regard to it. Your defense is weak.
What's this about one-trick pony? I know what the phrase means, but... what are you referencing?
Silthuri:It was basically "Cheeetar's full of shit and scum" which can be attributed to "Cheeetar mistaken." That was the best thing I could come up with because I wasn't around to witness Flabort's stunt.
Can you point out specific things to me that said to you "Cheeetar is full of shit and is scum" as opposed to "Cheeetar is mistaken about things related to millers and night actions"? Because I'm not seeing it myself.
Silthuri What do you think of Tiruin's new claim?As with her miller claim, which was supposedly confirmed by Persus, I believe her. I'm really curious about her morphing role though...
Alright, on to more serious things:I feel that Flabort is definitely not town. He put two people at one below hammer, claiming that whoever hammered would look scummy. He forced the hammer when he had a decent chance of not getting lynched in the first place. There was what... two votes on him? Then he starts claiming he knows who the SK and such are. Just... doesn't feel right. I'll try to go back and form a solid case before the Day ends.
Everyone voting Flabort: What are your points against him? What alignment do you believe him to be?
Silthuri, by my count you made one case on Day 1 and have done bugger all of use today. Unless I'm missing something? Please point out a recent contribution you've made that brings us closer to lynching scum.I haven't done shit today and you know it. I haven't made a single contribution this day until now. I'm having severe RL issues and still trying to play this game. Sorry if this is impeding your scumhunting because you feel the need to focus on little old me.
Barely, but yes.
Varee, Slithuri:
Are you still playing?
Tiruin:Could you explain the orange part? My intuition had a bad ping after I thought about this.> I've lost my Miller ability (...yeah.)That was me testing to make sure you weren't fakeclaiming scum. You passed. It also is completely gone, not stolen.> I've gained a Filler Ability. Literally called such. Ihave a 50% chance to lose an ability while...I have that ability.That wasn't me.
As if its going to do anything anyway. :V
I was hoping to not have to read through the thread again to find out what you were talking about. It kind of wastes my time, but whatevs. Isn't a big deal.I'm not a one trick pony, but that is one of the things I do as scum. If one of my scumbuddies messes up, I get them killed off. I wasn't refuting the point that I was scum, technically I was refuting the idea that Flabort and I knew we were on the same time, but that's an irrelevant distinction since the point I made is, as you have correctly pointed out, completely useless.
However, I'm a little surprised to have to explain what I meant by one-trick pony. You said that you played scum differently in another game. Then you went and used that as defense against my suspicions of you being scum in this game, as if you expected me to believe that you simultaneously play scum only one way and are aware of it. That's simply contradictory and thus a weak defense.
I was hoping to not have to read through the thread again to find out what you were talking about. It kind of wastes my time, but whatevs. Isn't a big deal.I'm not a one trick pony, but that is one of the things I do as scum. If one of my scumbuddies messes up, I get them killed off. I wasn't refuting the point that I was scum, technically I was refuting the idea that Flabort and I knew we were on the same time, but that's an irrelevant distinction since the point I made is, as you have correctly pointed out, completely useless.
However, I'm a little surprised to have to explain what I meant by one-trick pony. You said that you played scum differently in another game. Then you went and used that as defense against my suspicions of you being scum in this game, as if you expected me to believe that you simultaneously play scum only one way and are aware of it. That's simply contradictory and thus a weak defense.
This is getting ridiculous. Flabort is OMGUS-y scum and I'm becoming more and more certain that 4mask is his scumbuddy. (Can you summarize your suspicions? The thread is really long and my time is limited lately. Would be appreciative.)Lolz if I was his scumbuddy my vote would be solidly stuck on him. You were in the last game I was scum, you saw what I did to my scumbuddies.
It was a useless and silly thing I did when I was already irritated by life events. I know this, and I've accepted it. Had I been thinking straight, I would realize that me saying that would be pointless and mean nothing.This is getting ridiculous. Flabort is OMGUS-y scum and I'm becoming more and more certain that 4mask is his scumbuddy. (Can you summarize your suspicions? The thread is really long and my time is limited lately. Would be appreciative.)Lolz if I was his scumbuddy my vote would be solidly stuck on him. You were in the last game I was scum, you saw what I did to my scumbuddies.
How do you feel about this?
It was a useless and silly thing I did when I was already irritated by life events. I know this, and I've accepted it. Had I been thinking straight, I would realize that me saying that would be pointless and mean nothing.This is getting ridiculous. Flabort is OMGUS-y scum and I'm becoming more and more certain that 4mask is his scumbuddy. (Can you summarize your suspicions? The thread is really long and my time is limited lately. Would be appreciative.)Lolz if I was his scumbuddy my vote would be solidly stuck on him. You were in the last game I was scum, you saw what I did to my scumbuddies.
How do you feel about this?
Oh no, I think he is probably anti-town. I've stated as much several times. I've also stated the case that we should be looking for scum who haven't spent some of their abilities, to take them out before they can use said abilities. That's why my vote was on Cheeetar for a while: I thought both were anti-town, but I didn't know what Cheeetar had ability-wise so I thought it would be prudent to lynch him first.It was a useless and silly thing I did when I was already irritated by life events. I know this, and I've accepted it. Had I been thinking straight, I would realize that me saying that would be pointless and mean nothing.This is getting ridiculous. Flabort is OMGUS-y scum and I'm becoming more and more certain that 4mask is his scumbuddy. (Can you summarize your suspicions? The thread is really long and my time is limited lately. Would be appreciative.)Lolz if I was his scumbuddy my vote would be solidly stuck on him. You were in the last game I was scum, you saw what I did to my scumbuddies.
How do you feel about this?
Fair enough. That being said, you haven't really offered an alternative explanation. While life events are hardly something I could hold against you, it's a little ridiculous to think that such a slip is irrelevant. You seem to be supporting Flabort blindly and I'd like to know why, considering his actions are pretty damn scummy to me.
Flabort, exactly how much of your subtle manipulation would you be willing to reveal to us, and do you understand that if you aren't able to show the subtle manipulation people may disbelieve you were doing such a thing in the first place?I'm OK with them not believing it, because it would not be subtle if I was blatant about how I did it.
Also, I have a strong urge not to lynch Flabort if he agrees not to spew out random crap. Before I'm sure on this I'm waiting for a reply...What do you define as random crap?
So let me talk about the power without the fluffy non sense....So you have two powers. One that hits someone randomly, giving them a new power. And the other power lets you control who the random power hits?
The power is an auto trigger that will give a random player, including me, a new power according to their role every night. I have the ability to target someone, that is not myself, with it as a free action every night. The person that recieve the power then should be inform of it.
IronyOwl, are you a lyncher?No. I want you dead as only a small part of my wincon.
Cheeetar, IronyOwl:Haven't I?
You going to anything in this game, besides argue with each other?
IronyOwl: You realize it's entirely possible that Cheeetar could be an alignment that isn't mafia or town and revolves around him surviving. SO your comment that he has to be scum isn't necessarily true.
IronyOwl When did you start ignoring Jiokuy/MysteriousBluePuppet? What are you going to do to fix this?Since game start. Nothing until he does something to warrant it, possibly including doing nothing for excessively long periods of time.
Unless you make the first move, others make the first move. The outcome heavily depends on who moves first. Agreeing amongst everyone to not lynch is nearly impossible (though hammering would be incriminating to people not on the hammering block), while having the other person hammer you is bad for whatever alignment because they might not br (or are definitely not) your alignment, and given everyone being more or less equal in terms of power, hammering would be the optimal choice in both game theory and statistics.But you agree that hammering is incriminating. That seems to imply there's something unoptimal about it; not just from a suspicions standpoint, but regarding its worth to town and therefore odds of a townie performing it.
IronyOwl: Please summarize your case against Cheeetar.He pulled an unabashedly self-serving, cowardly move with the hammer, and has since been completely and utterly unashamed of it, consistently and defensively dodged every attempt to question any aspect of it, and done very little since except defend himself as an utter victim with absolutely zero say in the matter far as I can tell.
IronyOwl:Public decisions tend to fall under the purview of the game, and therefore largely and officially of the town, as a whole. It's true that anyone could have made the call, and in this case did, but most people, or at least most people not racing someone else, probably would have let it lie to discuss what to do about it rather than seizing it for themselves because they could.He had the good sense to set it up but not actually fire. If he'd panicked all the way, he could have just hammered a target, any target, all on his own. Instead he set up a loaded gun at each of two suspects, and left it up to everyone else as to which or any trigger they wanted to pull. Meaning, nominally, to the town collectively.
The bolded part of your logic trail loses me. How can you describe preparations that puts a hammer in the hands of any single individual who acts first to be given 'to the town collectively'? This also seems to clash with other things you said. Why'd you include that sentence?
I'm too lazy to dig up the exact quotes, but I seem to remember you explaining that:No, I didn't lie. I don't lie to town as town; the worst I do is omit information and distract from certain issues (often, it turns out, important issues).
-You set up the lynch because it'd avoid suspicion
-You set up the lynch because you didn't know you could just hammer someone
Did you lie? I can go find the exact quotes I'm thinking of if necessary.
@Flabort: Random crap would include blatant WIFOM, rolefishing, otherwise distracting town from lynching scum. Scum hunting is the opposite of random cap, in this discussion.OK, sure.
I'm claiming that I currently know more than you, and will likely know even more later. Quit trying to get me to say where I know it from, since I'm not going to say today. At least not planning on it.
Is there any chance of the Flabort wagon being shifted with the extend? Are any of you actually going to make use of your extra time? I see a lot of knee-jerk extending on this forum. Oppose Extend, if possible.You didn't have to cope with [RL SIGNIFICANT DIFFICULTIES] >_>
Everyone How would you use a day-kill as town? How would you use a day-kill as scum? Do you have the day-kill? Is it a one-shot or an auto that triggers on extend?
Oh, and Flabort's a neutral third partyDo you know this for a fact?
If they were town they would have claimed.Why?
Everyone How would you use a day-kill as town? How would you use a day-kill as scum? Do you have the day-kill? Is it a one-shot or an auto that triggers on extend?If I had a day kill I'd use it to eliminate suspects to get the most out of the early days where we've got a buffer of expendable players. So I'd be shooting you right now. Unfortunately, I don't have a kill.
Typically, Cheeetar, the right answer for town is to kill whomever has the most votes on them, functioning as a second lynch; giving town the flip they were going for, and a second chance to lynch right that day. I get what you are saying, though, it does make sense, but it's a much more risky strategy and someone else might find it more suspicious.Everyone How would you use a day-kill as town? How would you use a day-kill as scum? Do you have the day-kill? Is it a one-shot or an auto that triggers on extend?
As town, I'd like to use it to kill people who were certain that they knew somebody was scum for reasons unknown. Either they'd flip as non-town, in which case we could disregard their claim, or they'd flip as town and we'd be able to lynch a scum. As scum, I guess I'd kill people who claimed investigator, or those who might discover me- preferably towards the start of the day before they'd posted too much.
Pfp at dialup speeds. It's painful ;(Ouch, yeah, that would be painful.
Alright, uh. Cheeetar, you seem to want me dead both ways. I like that in that you're so open about it.
I'm giving you guys all the info you could actually use without extra info getting to the scum. I do not want to be lynched right now, obviously, but this is in case scum kill me this day/night. I will claim tomorrow (in-game time), but I can today if you really really really want me to.
Oh, and Flabort's a neutral third party, which probably means survivor, which is why I told him to not wreck stuff. If you feel that lynching a survivor over scum like Cheeetar or Extend is profitable, by all means.
Obviously, I'm not certain that Cheeetar is scum. However, trying to coerce people into killing someone who's giving information seems maligent.Double post is fine.
As for your question, Flabort, I'd kill the current lynch target if I was town, and possibly if I was scum (if the next in line was also a townie). Otherwise, I'd either kill the towniest player or the one who seems to be most powerful.
Sorry for double post.
TolyNo he does not know it for a fact.Oh, and Flabort's a neutral third partyDo you know this for a fact?
Flabort
Are you a 'neutral third party'?If they were town they would have claimed.Why?Everyone How would you use a day-kill as town? How would you use a day-kill as scum? Do you have the day-kill? Is it a one-shot or an auto that triggers on extend?If I had a day kill I'd use it to eliminate suspects to get the most out of the early days where we've got a buffer of expendable players. So I'd be shooting you right now. Unfortunately, I don't have a kill.
Oh, and Flabort's a neutral third party, which probably means survivor, which is why I told him to not wreck stuff. If you feel that lynching a survivor over scum like Cheeetar or Extend is profitable, by all means.
Obviously, I'm not certain that Cheeetar is scum. However, trying to coerce people into killing someone who's giving information seems maligent.Also, yes, Cheeetar is doing that; "lynch all cops" is not exactly a town policy. Among others, he is one of the ones that I am positive is antitown; I would rather lynch mafia than SK, but I guess he needs to die too.
As for your question, Flabort, I'd kill the current lynch target if I was town, and possibly if I was scum (if the next in line was also a townie). Otherwise, I'd either kill the towniest player or the one who seems to be most powerful.
Sorry for double post.
No, I'm not a third party. If I was, it would be Town-ally, which I'm not (the only difference being how investigative roles interact with it). I am town.
@NQT: Not completely, but relatively sure.Not buddying. Agreeing with you, but not trying to connect us. You're trying to connect us with that "I made him promise" thing, that's buddying. I'm just agreeing with you about another point.
@Flabort: Why... are you buddying me? I understand that I'm more or less defending you, but why are you voting Cheeetar right after me? And giving me advice on when to reveal. Individually, each would be fine, but all together it starts to worry me.
And you know, eh. Meh.
Third parties aren't house pets, TolyK. You can't put Flabort on a leash and expect him to do what you want, and that you expect us to trust you that you have him under control because of a verbal agreement is a bit silly.I AM FLABORT, IMMORTAL DEMILICH AND SACK OF POTATOES IN MY SPARE TIME. :P
You believe a survivor would have those abilities?One or the other, but not both, I think. The Dream would fit on any alignment, but for the vote control and revive, I think both together could only go on a Towny. Though, as certain someones are prone to remind me, we can't predict what Wuba considers balanced powers for any given alignment.
A survivor would.It is, because more often then not they switch sides and start helping scum so that they won't get killed.
Policy lynching survivors is a thing.
So you'd use your daykill identically whether you were scum or town?Everyone How would you use a day-kill as town? How would you use a day-kill as scum? Do you have the day-kill? Is it a one-shot or an auto that triggers on extend?
As town, I'd like to use it to kill people who were certain that they knew somebody was scum for reasons unknown. Either they'd flip as non-town, in which case we could disregard their claim, or they'd flip as town and we'd be able to lynch a scum. As scum, I guess I'd kill people who claimed investigator, or those who might discover me- preferably towards the start of the day before they'd posted too much.
But these are two different, conflicting reasons. First you stated that you didn't hammer either of them in part to avoid drawing suspicion to yourself, then you said you weren't aware double-hammering them was an option. Which is it?I'm too lazy to dig up the exact quotes, but I seem to remember you explaining that:No, I didn't lie. I don't lie to town as town; the worst I do is omit information and distract from certain issues (often, it turns out, important issues).
-You set up the lynch because it'd avoid suspicion
-You set up the lynch because you didn't know you could just hammer someone
Did you lie? I can go find the exact quotes I'm thinking of if necessary.
And yeah, that's pretty much the summary of why I did it.
If they were town they would have claimed.So your theory is that a townie murdered you to appear town, then clammed up about it to hide from their fellow townies.
They were trying to appear town by using it as an extra lynch; however, having not claimed yet, I believe that they are trying to protect themselves from other members of the town; the possibility that they are hiding from scum instead exists but is a slim chance.
Also, the first thing I did after being daykilled is declare the day-kill to be a scum ability, which may have scared whoever did it into not claiming.
Personally, I suspect Nerjin of having the day kill, but I guess I could ask some more questions to make you happy. I feel really awful issuing a blanket question, though.Would it be fair to say that you've done all the work you intend to today, then? What about tomorrow, are you likely to perform any scumhunting for the sake of finding scum then?
Everyone How would you use a day-kill as town? How would you use a day-kill as scum? Do you have the day-kill? Is it a one-shot or an auto that triggers on extend?
I have a feeling that extending is like voting for no lynch.Interesting theory. Are you concerned enough about it to recommend that we avoid extending this game? Why do you feel like extending is voting nolynch?
From the day one thing that flabort got kill during extend i have a feeling that someone have an ability to kill when we vote extend.
Pisud mai dai
*sympathetic pat*Is there any chance of the Flabort wagon being shifted with the extend? Are any of you actually going to make use of your extra time? I see a lot of knee-jerk extending on this forum. Oppose Extend, if possible.You didn't have to cope with [RL SIGNIFICANT DIFFICULTIES] >_>
Pfp at dialup speeds. It's painful ;(And you're sure?
Alright, uh. Cheeetar, you seem to want me dead both ways. I like that in that you're so open about it.
I'm giving you guys all the info you could actually use without extra info getting to the scum. I do not want to be lynched right now, obviously, but this is in case scum kill me this day/night. I will claim tomorrow (in-game time), but I can today if you really really really want me to.
Oh, and Flabort's a neutral third party, which probably means survivor, which is why I told him to not wreck stuff. If you feel that lynching a survivor over scum like Cheeetar or Extend is profitable, by all means.
flabort:How did those contradict? I didn't KNOW that I COULD kill both, so the only options I were aware of were pick and kill one, or kill neither.But these are two different, conflicting reasons. First you stated that you didn't hammer either of them in part to avoid drawing suspicion to yourself, then you said you weren't aware double-hammering them was an option. Which is it?I'm too lazy to dig up the exact quotes, but I seem to remember you explaining that:No, I didn't lie. I don't lie to town as town; the worst I do is omit information and distract from certain issues (often, it turns out, important issues).
-You set up the lynch because it'd avoid suspicion
-You set up the lynch because you didn't know you could just hammer someone
Did you lie? I can go find the exact quotes I'm thinking of if necessary.
And yeah, that's pretty much the summary of why I did it.
So my theory is that if whoever killed me was town, they would have claimed.If they were town they would have claimed.So your theory is that a townie murdered you to appear town, then clammed up about it to hide from their fellow townies.
They were trying to appear town by using it as an extra lynch; however, having not claimed yet, I believe that they are trying to protect themselves from other members of the town; the possibility that they are hiding from scum instead exists but is a slim chance.
Also, the first thing I did after being daykilled is declare the day-kill to be a scum ability, which may have scared whoever did it into not claiming.
Why?
For day 2? Day 3? Yeah, I know two anti-towns for sure, and am fairly confident about two more. So I intend to press all four and look for any more while I'm at it. As stated before, these four are Cheeetar, Nerjin, Jack, Scripten.Personally, I suspect Nerjin of having the day kill, but I guess I could ask some more questions to make you happy. I feel really awful issuing a blanket question, though.Would it be fair to say that you've done all the work you intend to today, then? What about tomorrow, are you likely to perform any scumhunting for the sake of finding scum then?
Everyone How would you use a day-kill as town? How would you use a day-kill as scum? Do you have the day-kill? Is it a one-shot or an auto that triggers on extend?
Cheeetar, I hate to add more to the pile, but:
So you'd use your daykill identically whether you were scum or town?
Nerjin, what's your stance on third parties? Would discovering that flabort was indeed third party change your opinion of him?
Why do you say that Shakerag was probably the best possible D1 lynch target?Imp: Had we lynched anyone else, Shakerag's powers would have been quite disruptive and town-damaging for the entire game, concealing the alignments and powers of both the D1 lynch and the N1 killed.
[stuff about real life omitted]Nerjin: When I have significant doubts and wish to show where they are, I will show where they are. I'm not one for acting more certain than I am, as I find it looks ridiculous when others do it.
Also, don't say "Seemingly Selective Quoting" when what you mean is "Selective Quoting". If you want to accuse me of something just accuse me of it and be done with this. There is never enough time in mafia to be beating around the bush like that.
Posturing (Verb): To position, especially strategically. To develop a policy or stance for (Oneself, a company, government, etc)flabort: Not the definition intended. The one intended is more like "(verb): 1. To assume an exaggerated or unnatural pose or mental attitude; attitudinize."
Why those specific groups? Because those are focuses that I specifically made sure weren't focused on earlier....but why those specific groups? Explain why you selected each group. Separate explanations for each group, please.
Everyone How would you use a day-kill as town? How would you use a day-kill as scum? Do you have the day-kill? Is it a one-shot or an auto that triggers on extend?As town: If there were some person I 100% knew to be scum, I would daykill them. Aside from that, the lynch target near the end of a day is reasonable if people haven't been setting up night action plans in thread. However, to limit town use of daykills to being based on the collective claimed suspicions of the full player set is to limit them excessively. Another approach I could take early in the game (and only early) is elimination of a major suspect, or (really early) a lurker. All daykill decisions would be based on the situation at the time, and a single universal daykill plan for town me does not exist.
Also, the first thing I did after being daykilled is declare the day-kill to be a scum ability, which may have scared whoever did it into not claiming.Considering the overwhelming majority of players here have experience in BYORs, and should already know that daykills can easily be and have been town abilities, I doubt that this had much of an effect.
For day 2? Day 3? Yeah, I know two anti-towns for sure, and am fairly confident about two more. So I intend to press all four and look for any more while I'm at it. As stated before, these four are Cheeetar, Nerjin, Jack, Scripten.Oh, hey, the allegations again. You keep on making these claims. Back them up. Or are they as lacking in substance as your assertions that your scumminess was really you manipulating everyone into not looking at each other and just focusing on you (which is totally in the interests of the town)?
Everyone who is voting Flabort: Do you believe that Flabort does have a regenerating revive?
NQT why would you use it on me? Is there anyone else you would use it on if I were an invalid target?I already said: to make the best use of the day. To get some info from lynch target before we lynch them so the rest of the day can be spent using that info. Killing anyone would be helpful, there's too many living to get any kind of handle on alignments. I'll get back to you about suspects.
Who are your top suspects right now?
Oh but NQT, you rascal, why are you trying to stifle discussion?
Drawn out days are bad for overall player morale. Town will perform better if the game doesn't slow to a crawl. I see this like I do boardgames where people are taking forever to take their move.
So Here is what happen last night. I tried build a house for toaster liek what flabort suggested. But form the other info, there a few thing that could have happen.Did we get to the bottom of this?
1 Toaster is lying and he got a new power but he is lying( Well i dont think he is lying but it is possible)
This lead to two other possiblity
I haven't done shit today and you know it. I haven't made a single contribution this day until now. I'm having severe RL issues and still trying to play this game. Sorry if this is impeding your scumhunting because you feel the need to focus on little old me.(Sorry life stuff is tough: I'm sending positive thought beams in what I imagine to be your general direction.)
@Cheeetar, obviously I don't expect most people to believe me, but considering what I'm saying is obviously necessary in order to play best. For the who you are not me, you obviously should take it with a soon of salt, but just throwing it away is nonsense. You sure seem to be trying to convince people into doing illogical things - first shooting people who are trying to give information, then trying to tell people to disregard it (not directly, that would be too obvious).
It also seems that this hostility is towards me alone, at this point - are you a lyncher?
Typically, Cheeetar, the right answer for town is to kill whomever has the most votes on them, functioning as a second lynch; giving town the flip they were going for, and a second chance to lynch right that day. I get what you are saying, though, it does make sense, but it's a much more risky strategy and someone else might find it more suspicious.Everyone How would you use a day-kill as town? How would you use a day-kill as scum? Do you have the day-kill? Is it a one-shot or an auto that triggers on extend?
As town, I'd like to use it to kill people who were certain that they knew somebody was scum for reasons unknown. Either they'd flip as non-town, in which case we could disregard their claim, or they'd flip as town and we'd be able to lynch a scum. As scum, I guess I'd kill people who claimed investigator, or those who might discover me- preferably towards the start of the day before they'd posted too much.
Your scum answer works fine; as long as the kill can't be tracked back to you.
Everyone How would you use a day-kill as town? How would you use a day-kill as scum? Do you have the day-kill? Is it a one-shot or an auto that triggers on extend?I would kill those who I find incredibly suspicious, although this would die out when mistakes come at great cost . At this point, I'd use my kill sparingly. As scum, I would go with my usual scum tactic of either killing those whose deaths wouldn't cast suspicion on me in any way or killing those I deem the greatest threat. I don't have a day-kill. Would be interesting though.
Silthuri(Thank you! This has already been the best day I've had in a while so it must be working! :D )I haven't done shit today and you know it. I haven't made a single contribution this day until now. I'm having severe RL issues and still trying to play this game. Sorry if this is impeding your scumhunting because you feel the need to focus on little old me.(Sorry life stuff is tough: I'm sending positive thought beams in what I imagine to be your general direction.)
I have a need to focus on everyone. You're as likely as anyone to be scum. Remember, it's not a crime to replace out if you don't the time to play.
NQT : The second part is a few post under the one you quote. Is your goal to lynch me or something? I got a feeling that you really wnat rid of me.Yeah I saw that but it doesn't resolve the issue. I do want to get rid of you, but that's not my wincon. If it was, I'd be voting you and making up some case as to why you have to die. Lyncher is a rare role, incidentally.
Toaster:A better question is this:
Flabort: If you're town, why didn't you simply hammer everybody but yourself?
Why did you specify 'If you're town' in that question? If he could have hammered everyone, there's extremely few roles he could possibly have where he would not win by hammering everyone but himself (ironically, the something-ally roles are among those).
What was the purpose of this very odd question, and why do you think this is a 'better question'?
Toaster, does your gut still say Flabort like it did yesterday?
Yeah, my count was off. Jack was voting Flabort yesterday but hasn't done so today. Why no votes, Jack?
Toaster How has Scripten's play been? Where do you see it going, what is your opinion about it?
If they were town they would have claimed.
They were trying to appear town by using it as an extra lynch; however, having not claimed yet, I believe that they are trying to protect themselves from other members of the town; the possibility that they are hiding from scum instead exists but is a slim chance.
Personally, I suspect Nerjin of having the day kill, but I guess I could ask some more questions to make you happy.
Everyone How would you use a day-kill as town? How would you use a day-kill as scum? Do you have the day-kill? Is it a one-shot or an auto that triggers on extend?
Lynching 4mask might be a good idea. Mostly because he does WIFOM a lot.
And yes, I've been persecuting third parties in this game for several reasons.
- Wuba's BYOR's tend to have quite a few third parties
- Several points of behavior from various players do not fit with scum play, but neither do they fit town play
- We have a confirmed SK-ally, ffs.
- * CLASSIFIED *
I want to put out information before I'm likely dead, but want to increase my life expectancy. That is, I'm not comfortable telling how I got this quite yet.
The power is an auto trigger that will give a random player, including me, a new power according to their role every night. I have the ability to target someone, that is not myself, with it as a free action every night. The person that recieve the power then should be inform of it.
Third parties aren't house pets, TolyK. You can't put Flabort on a leash and expect him to do what you want, and that you expect us to trust you that you have him under control because of a verbal agreement is a bit silly.
Everyone who is voting Flabort: Do you believe that Flabort does have a regenerating revive?
I believe you're several days off the timeline..?
Also, this time I'm giving percentages!
Did you catch where I voted him (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5572337#msg5572337)? He's had a grand total of one (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5573292#msg5573292) post since then, and no, it didn't go anywhere of clearing my issues with him. That said, I intend to go over his further posts in more depth,probably at the end of this postright here. I'm still unimpressed with his play.
-snip-
In conclusion, Flabort almost certainly isn't town, Scripten isn't hunting well, TolyK is trying to act like a mafia member, and I'd be happy to see any of them hang.
Everyone: Do you believe a role with a reusable revive AND the ability to make itself unactionable at night really 1) is a true claim 2) is town?
Everyone: Do you believe a role with a reusable revive AND the ability to make itself unactionable at night really 1) is a true claim 2) is town?
Ah, but I'm just pressing points and pressing buttons.
I agree, I do need to prove what I say, but that doesn't mean that you should disregard what I say. That was my point and your illogicity.
This is where I got the notion... that you would kill people claiming to know something without explaining. And saying that if you were scum (which might be a tip-off to scum, theoretically) you would get rid of someone like me ASAP. :As town, I'd like to use it to kill people who were certain that they knew somebody was scum for reasons unknown. Either they'd flip as non-town, in which case we could disregard their claim, or they'd flip as town and we'd be able to lynch a scum. As scum, I guess I'd kill people who claimed investigator, or those who might discover me- preferably towards the start of the day before they'd posted too much.
Scripten How do you plan to prove that I'm not town? Can you produce concrete proof?
I'm super tired. Might have missed something or another.I'm trying to, but when your clues are abstract differences in observed behavior, it's hard.
@Flabort
I would appreciate it if you would be so kind as to provide evidence for your 'theories'.
I see. Well, that makes sense. I can see how you thought I was doing that. However, I don't believe I was.Posturing (Verb): To position, especially strategically. To develop a policy or stance for (Oneself, a company, government, etc)flabort: Not the definition intended. The one intended is more like "(verb): 1. To assume an exaggerated or unnatural pose or mental attitude; attitudinize."
Tall order :PWhy those specific groups? Because those are focuses that I specifically made sure weren't focused on earlier....but why those specific groups? Explain why you selected each group. Separate explanations for each group, please.
Yours is probably the one with the most contingencies. However, it's pretty much the same answer as TolyL's, but with additions. I'm not surprised to see such an experienced player have a longer, more extensive strategy for using the kill to cover more situations.Everyone How would you use a day-kill as town? How would you use a day-kill as scum? Do you have the day-kill? Is it a one-shot or an auto that triggers on extend?As town: If there were some person I 100% knew to be scum, I would daykill them. Aside from that, the lynch target near the end of a day is reasonable if people haven't been setting up night action plans in thread. However, to limit town use of daykills to being based on the collective claimed suspicions of the full player set is to limit them excessively. Another approach I could take early in the game (and only early) is elimination of a major suspect, or (really early) a lurker. All daykill decisions would be based on the situation at the time, and a single universal daykill plan for town me does not exist.
As scum: I could try to act like town me, or I could kill a dangerous townie, or I could save it for LYLO. This all depends heavily on the situation at hand.
I do not have the daykill.
What does my deviation from TolyK's answer tell you about me? What does NQT's deviation from TolyK's answer tell you about him?
You say tomatoe, I say potato. You see a shadow, I see a Rorschach Test. Even if you're right and I didn't scare anyone off, I think that had some sort of effect somewhere.Also, the first thing I did after being daykilled is declare the day-kill to be a scum ability, which may have scared whoever did it into not claiming.Considering the overwhelming majority of players here have experience in BYORs, and should already know that daykills can easily be and have been town abilities, I doubt that this had much of an effect.
It was a bad strategy to steal town's attention. I admit that now. I'm working to undo that now, and I'm still getting more results from it even now. For example, you, Jack, are not likely to believe a lie when told one, but equally likely not to believe the truth. Even if you are not who I believe you to be, you have a strong distrust of everything. Especially if you are not scum, even. And you are being a lot more trusting of Nerjin than I would expect you to be if either of you were town, honestly. Just subtle clues here and there that you could be questioning him more.For day 2? Day 3? Yeah, I know two anti-towns for sure, and am fairly confident about two more. So I intend to press all four and look for any more while I'm at it. As stated before, these four are Cheeetar, Nerjin, Jack, Scripten.Oh, hey, the allegations again. You keep on making these claims. Back them up. Or are they as lacking in substance as your assertions that your scumminess was really you manipulating everyone into not looking at each other and just focusing on you (which is totally in the interests of the town)?
Hmm. It does, I'm telling you. See below, reply to Toaster.Everyone who is voting Flabort: Do you believe that Flabort does have a regenerating revive?
Nope!
FlabortRight. So your style of analisis only starts to work when one team or the other starts to get a numerical advantage over the other.NQT why would you use it on me? Is there anyone else you would use it on if I were an invalid target?I already said: to make the best use of the day. To get some info from lynch target before we lynch them so the rest of the day can be spent using that info. Killing anyone would be helpful, there's too many living to get any kind of handle on alignments. I'll get back to you about suspects.
Who are your top suspects right now?
Flabort:I find it interesting how most players are assuming it's one-shot, but you assume you could use it over and over.Everyone How would you use a day-kill as town? How would you use a day-kill as scum? Do you have the day-kill? Is it a one-shot or an auto that triggers on extend?I would kill those who I find incredibly suspicious, although this would die out when mistakes come at great cost . At this point, I'd use my kill sparingly. As scum, I would go with my usual scum tactic of either killing those whose deaths wouldn't cast suspicion on me in any way or killing those I deem the greatest threat. I don't have a day-kill. Would be interesting though.
Flabort:Yes, and I have to say, good job on spotting that he's full of bogus, and I like the use of the word regurgitated. However, your answer leaves me wanting more from you.Toaster How has Scripten's play been? Where do you see it going, what is your opinion about it?
Did you catch where I voted him (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5572337#msg5572337)? He's had a grand total of one (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5573292#msg5573292) post since then, and no, it didn't go anywhere of clearing my issues with him. That said, I intend to go over his further posts in more depth,probably at the end of this postright here. I'm still unimpressed with his play.
This is undoubtedly the most confusing bit. Assuming it was a one-shot, it's expended now. It can't be used to kill again, since it didn't trigger when the day extended this time. And since it's expended, there is no risk to the person who used to to take credit for it. I would assume that they wanted to take credit for it? No?If they were town they would have claimed.
They were trying to appear town by using it as an extra lynch; however, having not claimed yet, I believe that they are trying to protect themselves from other members of the town; the possibility that they are hiding from scum instead exists but is a slim chance.
I dispute the first claim. Why would they claim?
He tried to put some words in bold. After the hammer.Personally, I suspect Nerjin of having the day kill, but I guess I could ask some more questions to make you happy.
Given he tried to act again, this is extremely unlikely.
OK, Toaster as second candidate for day kill if Nerjin flips and doesn't have it.Everyone How would you use a day-kill as town? How would you use a day-kill as scum? Do you have the day-kill? Is it a one-shot or an auto that triggers on extend?
Probably as an extra lynch, much like it was (attempted to be) used. As a LYLO breaker or to eliminate a claimed power role before they could screw us up; that or to reset votes at an opportune time. Rolefishing.
Everyone: Do you believe a role with a reusable revive AND the ability to make itself unactionable at night really 1) is a true claim 2) is town?Yes and Yes.
The OMGUS or the assigning of focus?Scripten How do you plan to prove that I'm not town? Can you produce concrete proof?
Nope, not any more proof than what you've presented for your case where I'm a third scum or some anti-town alignment. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5572602#msg5572602) Why? Because I'm voting you alongside three of the other people you're suspecting. So, like I said ages ago, you're OMGUS-y anti-town/scum. You keep trying to get everyone to focus on people you're assigning rather than making direct accusations and following through. (You've done this twice now, off the top of my head.)
Imp, Toaster, and Scripten are some of our most active players right now, with possibly the exception of Scripten. However, when I issolated everyone from eachother with my "lookit me I'm faking defending myself" act to atract votes, it split these three up. I would like the more active players to take a look at the more active players.
ALSO, for this trio, Scripten was my scum suspect. But he's a weaker player as far as I've seen. So getting him to analyze the same person analyzing him would be less effective (for this reason I SHOULD have included a third person with Varee and Nerjin); so I had him analyze a player I was less familiar with and had that player analyze the more familiar player, to keep them all trustworthy.
Flabort:Yes, and I have to say, good job on spotting that he's full of bogus, and I like the use of the word regurgitated. However, your answer leaves me wanting more from you.Toaster How has Scripten's play been? Where do you see it going, what is your opinion about it?
Did you catch where I voted him (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5572337#msg5572337)? He's had a grand total of one (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5573292#msg5573292) post since then, and no, it didn't go anywhere of clearing my issues with him. That said, I intend to go over his further posts in more depth,probably at the end of this postright here. I'm still unimpressed with his play.
The OMGUS or the assigning of focus?Scripten How do you plan to prove that I'm not town? Can you produce concrete proof?
Nope, not any more proof than what you've presented for your case where I'm a third scum or some anti-town alignment. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5572602#msg5572602) Why? Because I'm voting you alongside three of the other people you're suspecting. So, like I said ages ago, you're OMGUS-y anti-town/scum. You keep trying to get everyone to focus on people you're assigning rather than making direct accusations and following through. (You've done this twice now, off the top of my head.)
Because I don't remember how many times it could be percieved that I've done the former, but I've done the latter four times. Five if you include subtle manipulation within this very post.
I like mind games. Puzzles and mind games. Mafia is the perfect expresion of both. And I am playing the mind games like a Potato Occarina. Sure, maybe I shouldn't, but I am definitely enjoying them.
You may not be able to trust me, but I have been telling the truth and I am town. I just wanted to have fun with mind games, is all.
Tiruin You seem to have gone silent. Is this a sign of RL troubles, or is there nothing for you to say?RL has gone better (thanks Irony u_u) and I've been reading up, just finalizing my notes here! :O
MysteriousBluePuppet: Great to see you again. If you had been in the position of Cheeetar or Shakerag at the end of Day 1, what would you have done? What are your reads? How, if at all, does Flabort's claimed Latvian Dream power play into your idea of how to deal with Flabort?
CheeetarJack AT: Very logical. Can't really say anything about him otherwise.
Nerjin
Scripten
Jack A T
TolyK I'd like to know as much as you can think of about my four suspects (above the divider). How scummy would you would rate each one?
Varee: Town due to behavior and circumstances. Except that I don't get why he isn't claiming something, but on the other hand he probably shouldn't.
NQT why would you use it on me? Is there anyone else you would use it on if I were an invalid target?I already said: to make the best use of the day. To get some info from lynch target before we lynch them so the rest of the day can be spent using that info. Killing anyone would be helpful, there's too many living to get any kind of handle on alignments. I'll get back to you about suspects.
Who are your top suspects right now?
be patient NQT My vote is safest where it is right now.Your wincon isn't to 'get information'! The lynch is the weapon of the town, by passively refusing to press a case you are acting anti-town.
I accept that I am lazy but I just believe that pressing case is not the best way for me to gain info right now.
Well Mislynch is the best thing that mafia can wish for. I still believe I cannot be certain that my using my vote, I will further my wincon, I believe that I am doing what is best for me by not misplacing my vote.
Slithuri
Well Mislynch is the best thing that mafia can wish for. I still believe I cannot be certain that my using my vote, I will further my wincon, I believe that I am doing what is best for me by not misplacing my vote.Yes, and town allow mislynched to happen when they don't press cases on actual scum. Why are you content to sit by and let scum mislynch?
Well I dont have anyone in mind to vote really... Sithuri isnt any more suspicious than most other player actually but there just not much to go on for her.
Well I dont say that sitting and let other people vote will prevent mislynch. Am leaving that to the more potent player to make that decision.
I dont believe that flabort is scum as his day one move would be suicidal as a scum. I dont think playing that reckless will end well. I already tried that and everyone just pin the word scum on you(CYOM).
So If finding scum is the goal and finding scum is find who is lying , Why dont everyone just mass claim as that is one thing you can do to force certain people to lie.
Giving power to random people or a certain someone is definitely not scum hunting but something that got to be done have to be done.
So who do you people think is the most town right now?
What's your detailed viewpoint on Persus13 and I?So who do you people think is the most town right now?
Most town? Probably IronyOwl and Imp. Most everyone is null save for a few.
Well Mislynch is the best thing that mafia can wish for.This isn't true. The best thing the mafia could wish for is a No Lynch every day. Mafia is primarily a game of information, and the scum start off with the most amount of information. Every lynch gives town information, not just on what the lynched person's role was, but also on how they interacted with other players, who voted for the lynched player, and why people behaved the way they did. Lynching is often town's only weapon against the scumkill so use your vote or don't play.
I still believe I cannot be certain that my using my vote, I will further my wincon, I believe that I am doing what is best for me by not misplacing my vote.That's because you've done nothing this game except babble on about houses. Do stuff to help change that instead. Ask questions. Prod about stuff you find odd.
Well I dont say that sitting and let other people vote will prevent mislynch. Am leaving that to the more potent player to make that decision.But that more potent player could be scum. People like NQT or Toaster are good players, whether they are scum or town. They won't watch themselves, and need other people to do that for themselves.
I dont believe that flabort is scum as his day one move would be suicidal as a scum. I dont think playing that reckless will end well. I already tried that and everyone just pin the word scum on you(CYOM).This is a good start to formulating an opinion on someone. You think flabort is unlikely to be scum because he was reckless D1? So ask people who are voting flabort why they think that being reckless means flabort's scum.
So If finding scum is the goal and finding scum is find who is lying , Why dont everyone just mass claim as that is one thing you can do to force certain people to lie.The problem with this is that Scum powers often look like town powers, and they can conceal their powers pretty easily. Look at CYOM when everyone mass-claimed. The one remaining active Mafia player full-claimed completely all his actions, which caused him to seem pretty town. It was only a town player suddenly deciding to kill him that caused him to lose the game.
Giving power to random people or a certain someone is definitely not scum hunting but something that got to be done have to be done.I'm glad you see it that way. Are you saying you're a third party and this house thing helps your wincon? Because this is what you sound like you are.
So who do you people think is the most town right now?I think Tiruin is probably Town because of her play and her reporting losing her Miller auto.
Please define exactly how Flabort's behavior was anti-town. I have my own reasons, but I want to hear yours.I dont believe that flabort is scum as his day one move would be suicidal as a scum. I dont think playing that reckless will end well. I already tried that and everyone just pin the word scum on you(CYOM).
Ehh... WIFOM. Acting anti-town is acting anti-town, whether you are scum or not.
Persus: Thanks for clarifying it back there--the misunderstanding >_< Will be completing my read in the next half-day.I used an ability to destroy your Miller auto last night. I got no response from Webadict, which means it was successful. The next day you claimed you lost your Miller auto. If you were scum, you wouldn't have that, so you would likely wouldn't have said anything about it.Tiruin:Could you explain the orange part? My intuition had a bad ping after I thought about this.> I've lost my Miller ability (...yeah.)That was me testing to make sure you weren't fakeclaiming scum. You passed. It also is completely gone, not stolen.
How did you test, and how did you check if the ability is gone?
If its RL-school issues, I could help there.Silthuri, by my count you made one case on Day 1 and have done bugger all of use today. Unless I'm missing something? Please point out a recent contribution you've made that brings us closer to lynching scum.I haven't done shit today and you know it. I haven't made a single contribution this day until now. I'm having severe RL issues and still trying to play this game. Sorry if this is impeding your scumhunting because you feel the need to focus on little old me.
But you'd like to see me lynched for "not hunting well." When you ask questions like below?Everyone: Do you believe a role with a reusable revive AND the ability to make itself unactionable at night really 1) is a true claim 2) is town?
Toaster When you said that Cheeetar gets no credit for hammering a dangerous third party, does this imply that anyone else who suspected this third party gets credit? Does the suspicion I get for creating that situation override any credit I have so far?
be patient NQT My vote is safest where it is right now.
Slithuri
For all you know i could have been causing distraction and trying to get something to happen so why dont you just ignore me.......
Unvote
I used an ability to destroy your Miller auto last night. I got no response from Webadict, which means it was successful. The next day you claimed you lost your Miller auto. If you were scum, you wouldn't have that, so you would likely wouldn't have said anything about it.
Excellent. We don't have to worry about today's lynch having been a waste- Flabort was lying when he roleclaimed earlier, and his resurrect is not what he said it was. We're safe to lynch him.I'm afraid I never, ever said when my revive resets. I never said "It comes back the day after". I allowed people to guess that and believe that, but I never said that. So I'm not lying.
Tiruin:Behavioral analysis (sans the idea of 'oh hey that power couldn't REALLY BE [alignment-related]) of the person in question.Unvote
Why did you unvote Flabort here?
OK, going to where I manipulated Nerjin, and why he is scum.
Who else do you suspect besides Flabort?Right now? Probably Nerjin (some strange comments), NQT (focusing solely on flabort's post count besides vote count late D1), 4maskwolf (suicidal behavior and defense of 4maskwolf), Cheeetar (hardcore tunneling of Flabort and running argument taking up almost all of his posts), IronyOwl (tunneling Cheeetar for something Flabort should mainly be blamed for), Jack A T (something just feels different from his play in Supernatural 7, he doesn't feel hyper-townie like he did then), and Varee (behaving like some sort of weird third party, though could just be his inexperience).
Well done, this is a good solid post on Nerjin that raises a few good points. Some Nitpicks, and I'd have more if I had time:Excellent. We don't have to worry about today's lynch having been a waste- Flabort was lying when he roleclaimed earlier, and his resurrect is not what he said it was. We're safe to lynch him.I'm afraid I never, ever said when my revive resets. I never said "It comes back the day after". I allowed people to guess that and believe that, but I never said that. So I'm not lying.
OK, going to where I manipulated Nerjin, and why he is scum.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
His address to Silthuri in that post feels suspicious,SLithuri is Nerjin's girlfriend in RL, so his comment referring to her as First Lady makes sense in that context.
Also, I'm not sure why Shakerag says Nerjin likes revolvers. This is mildly suspicious.Read the text under Nerjin's forum avatar. It's also a reference to something, but I don't remember the name. (Revolver Ocelot maybe?)
And assuming he's referring to himself when he says America, his closing statement becomes a taunt to the town.It's fairly obvious that America is the town overall, and Nerjin just calls himself the President.
Toaster:Who else do you suspect besides Flabort?Right now? Probably Nerjin (some strange comments)
Flabort:Quote from: Flabort[[Flabort posts a giant Wall of text with a bunch of crap within it.Well done, this is a good solid post on Nerjin that raises a few good points. Some Nitpicks, and I'd have more if I had time:
QuoteHis address to Silthuri in that post feels suspicious,SLithuri is Nerjin's girlfriend in RL, so his comment referring to her as First Lady makes sense in that context.
QuoteAlso, I'm not sure why Shakerag says Nerjin likes revolvers. This is mildly suspicious.Read the text under Nerjin's forum avatar. It's also a reference to something, but I don't remember the name. (Revolver Ocelot maybe?)
[Flabort] Your casealso has several elements thatjust feel(s) like you tried to shoehorn in stuff.
Nerjin: Seems like a president (duh), like a mayor. Seemed like a third party, but that makes too many of them. Mixed read between town, third party and scum - mostly leaning on town, though.TolyK: Can you explain these? Posting reads without reasons doesn't help town. I know you've decided you love posting thoughts without explaining, but you really have to explain.
Cheeetar: More or less scum read. Answered questions with hidden accusations embedded and seemed to want to shoot me (skepticism is fine, but that's a bit too far, I think).
Tiruin: Pretty sure she's town due to behavior and circumstances.
Toaster: Town due to circumstances.
Varee: Town due to behavior and circumstances. Except that I don't get why he isn't claiming something, but on the other hand he probably shouldn't.
I accept that I am lazy but I just believe that pressing case is not the best way for me to gain info right now.Varee: Explain this statement. Also, give reads of everyone. What the fuck are you doing and why are you doing so little to scumhunt?
So If finding scum is the goal and finding scum is find who is lying...Thing is, it isn't. The majority of the time, the scum won't be lying about much beyond their alignments. In a game like this, with third parties, the "scumhunting" of scum will even be largely legitimate, as they need information too. We're not primarily hunting liars. We're primarily hunting people who are trying to use the tools of town for goals other than town victory.
So who do you people think is the most town right now?Tiruin. Definitely Tiruin. Believable miller claim, plus unproven corroboration by Persus.
That said, I'm having less issues with your [Scripten's] play now, and am willing to back off for now.Toaster: Please explain.
Jack A T How has your own play been so far, in your opinion?Flabort: I have not had the chance to be as active as I'd like, but my play is non-terrible.
Do you believe there are any holes in your defense?Considering I have not yet had to defend myself, as I have not had anything to defend myself against, the premise of this question is invalid. Besides, isn't it your job to find holes in your targets' defences?
Yourself and 4mask have a mutual relationship of distancing. When 4mask answered about you, he said he invariably reads you as town; and as far as I've ever observed, you only ever find him to be mildly scummy. This was an experiment in seeing if I could get you two to give different reads on eachother for once.Fascinating! You couldn't explain this group without depending completely on information you could not have had when you assert you created the group: our responses to your group questions. My previous posted read of 4mask this game is a null read (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5560728#msg5560728), and 4maskwolf had not once posted a read of me before you requested one. Your "mutual relationship" is lacking. Your assertion that the group was based on our reads of each other is false. Your reasons for the group are based on 4mask having consistent reads of me that he had not yet shown and me having a consistent mild scum read of 4mask that was without a base in reality.
For example, you, Jack, are not likely to believe a lie when told one, but equally likely not to believe the truth. Even if you are not who I believe you to be, you have a strong distrust of everything. Especially if you are not scum, even. And you are being a lot more trusting of Nerjin than I would expect you to be if either of you were town, honestly. Just subtle clues here and there that you could be questioning him more.Alright, you've finally said something about what you're attacking me for. Would you be so kind as to give evidence for your assertions?
I will reveal the one piece of information regarding my role I have withheld until now:Based on the fact, correctly pointed out by some, that a rapid recharging revive would be rather ridiculous, plus this new claim, I hereby place my vote where it should be. Flabort.
My revive takes a whole cycle to recharge. As I was killed Day 1, I will get my revive back Night two. If I had been killed Night 1 instead, I would have my revive on the morning of Day 2.
I don't have it back yet! Yay! You may procede to lynch me over allowing you to believe I had it now. ::)
How much time till day end? 12 hours from now and I'm totally free (+ destressing x_x)About 25 hours from this post.
You were unexplainably irritable in some posts, especially in that post regarding 4maskwolf's unnecessary post. Your reaction to some of flabort's previous comments (not sure which ones) seemed over the top. It wasn't much, you've just been provoking the strange radar (in fact you shoud have been much lower on that list, now that I think about it).Toaster:Who else do you suspect besides Flabort?Right now? Probably Nerjin (some strange comments)
Fair enough. Mind if I ask for some follow up on that? Just in general is fine. I'm rather curious.
I was mainly applauding the fact he mainly spent a lot of time and effort building a giant post with links and stuff in it. A giant case on you gives a lot of information, and flabort should be applauded for that. I also wanted to see what your reaction would be. You seriously overreacted to my post. Why are you so worried about a post that you believe is full of BS and is coming from someone who has been on the chopping block since D1, when no one has been voting you? Me saying that flabort's case has a few good points shouldn't be disconcerting, especially since I'm still voting him and mentioned that I still wanted to see flabort's roleflip. And fixing my post was unnecessary.Quote from: Persus13Flabort:Quote from: Flabort[[Flabort posts a giant Wall of text with a bunch of crap within it.Well done, this is a good solid post on Nerjin that raises a few good points. Some Nitpicks, and I'd have more if I had time:
No, no it isn't. It is crap. Please, please tell me you're not serious.Quote[Flabort] Your casealso has several elements thatjust feel(s) like you tried to shoehorn in stuff.
Fixed that for you.
Persus13: What points in flabort's attack on Nerjin do you believe to be the good points?Nerjin's comment on the food production industry seemed out of place, if not as significant as flabort seemed to think.
I reveal my suspects; I forget to prove them. It does, however, Get nerjin to finally drop the roleplay. He also doesn't say what his actual arguement is, because he'd rather I just flail about innefectually, so that I get mislynched.These three end comments do have merit to them. Nerjin dropping roleplay does seem like an unneccesary overreaction. 4maskwolf's proposition that we go after scum that isn't flabort seems like a valid suggestion given flabort's revive (also deserved more discussion, not just getting attempted to be shut down), and the fact that Nerjin went after NQT for stuff also seems odd given the large list of people who haven't posted a lot (including Tiruin, Scripten, Slithuri, Varee, MBP, and Myself, as well as possibly you and Toaster).
He completely dismisses 4mask's point right after he says I dismissed his.
And he hasn't picked up the roleplaying again yet. Instead he's being really angry at NQT and deflecting her questions. And saying that she isn't putting in any work.
I do love it, yes.Nerjin: Seems like a president (duh), like a mayor. Seemed like a third party, but that makes too many of them. Mixed read between town, third party and scum - mostly leaning on town, though.TolyK: Can you explain these? Posting reads without reasons doesn't help town. I know you've decided you love posting thoughts without explaining, but you really have to explain.
Cheeetar: More or less scum read. Answered questions with hidden accusations embedded and seemed to want to shoot me (skepticism is fine, but that's a bit too far, I think).
Tiruin: Pretty sure she's town due to behavior and circumstances.
Toaster: Town due to circumstances.
Varee: Town due to behavior and circumstances. Except that I don't get why he isn't claiming something, but on the other hand he probably shouldn't.
Scripten:Please define exactly how Flabort's behavior was anti-town. I have my own reasons, but I want to hear yours.I dont believe that flabort is scum as his day one move would be suicidal as a scum. I dont think playing that reckless will end well. I already tried that and everyone just pin the word scum on you(CYOM).
Ehh... WIFOM. Acting anti-town is acting anti-town, whether you are scum or not.
I was mainly applauding the fact he mainly spent a lot of time and effort building a giant post with links and stuff in it. A giant case on you gives a lot of information, and flabort should be applauded for that. I also wanted to see what your reaction would be. You seriously overreacted to my post. Why are you so worried about a post that you believe is full of BS and is coming from someone who has been on the chopping block since D1, when no one has been voting you? Me saying that flabort's case has a few good points shouldn't be disconcerting, especially since I'm still voting him and mentioned that I still wanted to see flabort's roleflip. And fixing my post was unnecessary.
What's your detailed viewpoint on Persus13 and I?
Quoting a question where I'm trying to prove a point and calling it bad hunting is pretty misleading.
That said, I'm having less issues with your play now, and am willing to back off for now.
Unvote Scripten.
I have seen "Hammer has hit, stop talking" so, so many times.
Jack A T OK, if anyone were to pursue you for any reason, what do you think they would be accusing you over? I'm sorry that wasn't clear.flabort: I do not carefully watch my activities for possible avenues of attack, and will not start now. However, I could see players (particularly NQT) going for me for not posting as often as I should.
I'm using the answer to explain the reason; the reason did not come after the answer. I knew he usually does that, but his answer made it easier to explain.Lovely. You're not engaging with my point at all. My point, of course, being that there was a lack of prior evidence that could even begin to support your assertion of 4mask and I having consistent reads of each other and a "mutual relationship of distancing," there was evidence that falsified your assertions of specific consistent reads, and thus that your asserted reasons for the 4mask and I group had clearly been made after the fact. The only evidence supporting the consistent reads claim that was your alleged reason for the group was the evidence you gathered in group questioning.
I'll find some "evidence for [my] assertions" before the lynch, if I'm not hammered. OK?Alright. You had best do so quickly. There is not much time left.
My key points are that he is hiding massive amounts of hidden communications in his roleplay, is evasive as heck, and is getting upset over things that shouldn't upset him. To summarize in as brief as I can.Alright, thank you. I don't understand the part about "hidden communications," though. Why would scum do this? Why not use scumchat, which is much easier and safer to do than veiling communications in flavour? What is even the point of veiled statements like the ones you accuse him of making, like the below one?
"As your president I have been authorized..." means "My scum buddies are allowing me to...".
I'd like to see YOU do a post-by-post analysis that doesn't have some useless information.As a side note, flabort, this is why everybody hates post-by-post analyses. They almost always have a few points in them, but almost always buried in walls of crap. Nobody wants to read walls of crap. It would be a good idea, in the future, to try to remove the useless information and just give your important points and the evidence for them.
OK, going to where I manipulated Nerjin, and why he is scum.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
so someone get the house. I will be real happy if whoever got it said so.Given that you targeted Toaster, why didn't you ask Toaster what the house he got was? Why did you even suspect at that point that Toaster didn't get it?
Toaster is lying and he got a new power but he is lyingas a possible explanation of what happened? Do you often call people liars when they don't answer a question they were not even directly asked?
there a few thing that could have happen.
1 Toaster is lying and he got a new power but he is lying( Well i dont think he is lying but it is possible)
1.1 Flabort did not target me or toaster as if he target one of us either he would also get the power or toaster would get the power
1.2 Flabort lied about his power( well this is the most likely thing that happen)
2Toaster got the power but he dont want to tell us (I dont think this happen)
3 I totally misunderstand my power..... ( I dont think it is this one too, It might not be a house but i am positive i built something.)
I don't see the rest of the game going well if you continue to lynch me.
That said, I'm having less issues with your [Scripten's] play now, and am willing to back off for now.Toaster: Please explain.
Wait a second, I'd like to understand this a bit better. What, exactly, has changed in my play since your post besides me putting pressure on you? And why are all of your votes on people who aren't going to flip?
Toaster never said if he got it or not.
Varee:so someone get the house. I will be real happy if whoever got it said so. Also on second thought it might not be a house. more like toilet or something.
Wasn't me. Did you target someone or just let it be random?
You didn't directly respond to Varee's question if someone got a house. He also didn't specifically question you about it. Why didn't you talk to him about this odd indirection, and the other odd things he said about it, like:
Varee:The power is an auto trigger that will give a random player, including me, a new power according to their role every night. I have the ability to target someone, that is not myself, with it as a free action every night. The person that recieve the power then should be inform of it.
Just to clear this up: even if you target it, it's still an auto power? Or do you target a night action and it just fires off even if you don't target? Or some third thing?
-snip-I understand that my distraction may seem counter productive but I Hope I can justify it in this post.
Varee: Explain this statement. Also, give reads of everyone. What the fuck are you doing and why are you doing so little to scumhunt?The first part is a bit too much to ask of me right now but I will try put out a few and I will answer the second part.
Mysteriousbluepuppet, Silthuri, Varee, 4maskwolf, Tiruin: Why are you not voting? Are you content with the Flabort lynch? If you're not, you should vote otherwise, because at this point a vote for no one is a vote for Flabort.I'm fine with a Flabort lynch. I had honestly forgotten that I was still playing a game of mafia, so sorry for not posting.
Mysteriousbluepuppet, Silthuri, Varee, 4maskwolf, Tiruin: Why are you not voting? Are you content with the Flabort lynch? If you're not, you should vote otherwise, because at this point a vote for no one is a vote for Flabort.
NQT hammered already.Mysteriousbluepuppet, Silthuri, Varee, 4maskwolf, Tiruin: Why are you not voting? Are you content with the Flabort lynch? If you're not, you should vote otherwise, because at this point a vote for no one is a vote for Flabort.
ust woke up, won'tvote Flabort because that would be hammer i do think he is anti town of soem kind, but things can change, fast.
flabort
Town
SCP-1689
You are a sack of potatoes. That’s cool. Here’s some horrible puns!
[REDACTED]
(Night) Latvian Dream [target]: If you use this action, actions targeting you directly fail. Actions targeting your target apply to you as well. Your target is unable to be blocked, redirected, or randomized.
(1-Shot) Vote-ato: You have one vote for every potato you have. Which is INFINITE! You may only vote up to two players at once.
notquitethere
Town
Monte Carlo Casino Roulette Streak
Breaking all gambler’s know about luck, you’ve decided that 26 times in a row isn’t enough for you. You can’t just let Luck control you. Nooo…
[REDACTED]
(Night) Ante Up [target]: You obtain a copy of a random action from the target for a cycle.
(1-Shot) Russian Roulette [target]: Spin the roulette. If it’s Red, the target dies. If it’s Black, you die. If it’s 0, you both die.
Persus13
Town
The Role that Nerfs Shakerag’s Role
You are the Role that Nerfs Shakerag’s Role. Haha ha hahaha haha.
[REDACTED]
(Night) Nerf [target]: You destroy an Auto ability the target has. If the target is Shakerag, you destroy two of his Auto abilities.
(1-Shot, Night) OP [target]: The target cannot be lynched, killed, blocked, tracked, inspected, looked at directly, eaten, shot to the moon, or actioned by Shakerag. In fact, nothing works on the target. They are immune to death and all abilities for one whole Cycle.
(1-Shot, Day) Lucky Number Thirteen: You gain an extra vote for the rest of this Day Phase.
4maskwolf- Consistently scummy/suspicious low content, late bandwagon.
Varee- Nonparticipation in the lynch on either side, generally noncommital attitude, hasn't voted and was really focused on 'building'.
TolyK- I think it's likely he was one of Flabort's mason pals given how he acted. You guys- you can probably trust him! If he says I am scum, do not trust him though (please?)
While I agree with these to an extent, your post strikes me as very odd. ESPECIALLY this bit here:QuoteTolyK- I think it's likely he was one of Flabort's mason pals given how he acted. You guys- you can probably trust him! If he says I am scum, do not trust him though (please?)
Why did you write that and why do you think this will change how the game turns out? Why should we always trust TolyK unless he wants to lynch you?
Your anti-town read on Irony Owl seems OMGUS-y. Why do you think he's a lyncher and doesn't just think you're scum for that (admittedly somewhat justified) hammering? After all, you were at L-1 and he didn't quicklynch. If he was a lyncher, suspicious actions wouldn't matter after he'd gotten his wincon. Does this mean you think he's also a survivor?
Also: Did the result of the rolecop's investigation tell us what powers those who had them stolen had? Because that might be useful to us.Nope. It discovered the thieving ability itself.
Probably don't tell us more than is strictly necessary to eliminate that guy who steals role abilities.One more thing, that may be good to know: NQT was not killed by an ability backfire. I roleblocked him last night, and I did not get a report of my action failing (unlike N1), so he was locked down. Someone out and out killed him.
Dang. I honestly did not expect Flabort to be town. I maintain that he behaved really scummily. I've written this up before day time (just in case I survived!) because I am very aware of the fact that this was my fault and people will not be happy with me.
Why do you believe this?
3) I am likely going to be lynched, or possibly even day killed.
Also: I'm reading him as a lyncher and not just scum because he should've been fine with a Flabort lynch if he was scum. Instead, he was pretty much tunneling me for the entire day, and not doing much else.
Is there anything you're willing to add to what you said here, about what you did or tried to do to Tiruin?...And thanks, but it seems someone swapped it (given the wording) or stole it. Less likely the latter.
I think I may have had something to do with it. I didn't receive much info on my PM from Webadict.
Why do you say that Shakerag was probably the best possible D1 lynch target?Imp: Had we lynched anyone else, Shakerag's powers would have been quite disruptive and town-damaging for the entire game, concealing the alignments and powers of both the D1 lynch and the N1 killed.
Why do/did I and IronyOwl seem more Town to you than others in the game? Specifically, why do I and IronyOwl appear more Town to you than Persus13, who you are specifically asked about and answer, 10 hours later:So who do you people think is the most town right now?
Most town? Probably IronyOwl and Imp. Most everyone is null save for a few.
What's your detailed viewpoint on Persus13 and I?
You're town to me, Tiruin. I hadn't taken your cleared miller status from earlier into account. Persus13 reads town to me right now, but he's mostly null. I find his hunting to be legitimate and his motives so far seem pro-town, but it's hard to tell with only one flip and so many players.
I have a couple of theories on no night deaths, but I'll wait until tomorrow to tell you all them (tomorrow as in tomorrow, not as in day 3).
There's two things that really struck me as strange about Irony Owl's attack on me- one, unlike pretty much everyone else, she thought my vote on Flabort was proof of me being scum (which seemed and continues to seem strange to me.)
3) I am likely going to be lynched, or possibly even day killed. In the event of this, here are my top suspects and why:I suspect you have time to scumhunt and respond to my megapost. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5577890#msg5577890)
Ok I understand now that certain people take this game seriously so I will stop goofing around. My attempt of RIA is doing exactly what the wiki warn me will happen.Do you intend to scumhunt today? If the post you reply to this in does not contain scumhunting, append a "When? Why aren't you doing so yet?" to that.
I dont believe it a LYLO situation but I wont denied that a lynch is useful to the town.
So any question? I like to answer question more than asking so ask away i guess?
To clarify: I know the identities of the tracker and the rolecop. I'm not going to say who, because if they are town I want to protect their identities unless they choose to claim. The tracker probably shouldn't: you don't really have much info to share, at least not from last night (nothing adverse happened to TolyK). The rolecop, however, may want to, and I'll tell you that this player's name can be easily shortened to an acronym (which should narrow it down for you, so you know I'm telling the truth if this person does choose to claim).Why'd you mostly but not explicitly out a rolecop?
One more thing, that may be good to know: NQT was not killed by an ability backfire. I roleblocked him last night, and I did not get a report of my action failing (unlike N1), so he was locked down. Someone out and out killed him.This is good to know.
IronyOwl: It's been a few days since we last heard from you. Are you coming back? What are your reads?Yeah, sorry.
It turns out that Toaster is the neutral third party, by the way. I thought it more likely that Flabort was it, but it happens to not. I inspected Toaster N1 and got two results, "town" and "neutral". Toaster is a third party, but likely not the serial killer (more like survivor, as that's a good counter to an SK). Flabort is somehow town with all that bs. Well, whatever.What does this mean and how did it lead you to tell us you were 98% sure we shouldn't lynch Toaster and 60-75% sure we shouldn't lynch flabort?
That night, Tiruin actioned me as well, and was de-millered, which is now confirmed by a dead townie. Thus, Tiruin is definitely not scum and very likely town.
Also, whoever targeted me, I'm sorry about that. Unless of course it's a horse. Then just keep it.What's all this about?
<.<
This night I investigated NQT and got Town. Unfortunately, this means I have lost a night (and possibly incriminated myself as well).Then why'd you claim at all? Say about what?
I'm interested in what MBP and 4mask say/will say.
Cheeetar:3) I am likely going to be lynched, or possibly even day killed. In the event of this, here are my top suspects and why:I suspect you have time to scumhunt and respond to my megapost. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5577890#msg5577890)
Silthuri: Positive thought beams from me to you too, I hope things continue to get much better. Are you current on the thread? Do you predict needing more time of not being able to really play?Thank you! I was fairly current up until day end. Semester just started for me and I'm settling back into my schedule. This should mean that I'll be around much more than I was, surprisingly enough. I might be able to get in two/three posts a day, depending on the amount of homework and closeness to an exam.
Wolf and Slithuri : What do you think of NQT death? He seem to be the one that suspect the "less than active players" a lot. Do you think this will bring suspicious to us?
4maskwolf, are you willing to tell us everything you know about the ability theft ability?I'm actually not allowed to say any more. Sorry.
Failing that, are you able to tell from it if the person who has it gets -all- the abilities that have been REDACTED, or only keeps the most recent, or however else that ability may be limited?
Are you willing to tell us why you picked NQT to roleblock last night?Yes I am. I targeted him for the same reason I targeted Cheeetar N1: I was suspicious of him due to his hammer, particularly his given reasons for it.
4maskwolf: You've told us you are rather burned out of Mafia, and recently mentioned you'd even forgotten you were still playing in a Mafia game. Do you only play this game for the night game, and do you feel that's enough for a good mafia game?No, I play for the day game too.I have a couple of theories on no night deaths, but I'll wait until tomorrow to tell you all them (tomorrow as in tomorrow, not as in day 3).
Ready to share your theories yet?
4mask:I'm not allowed to say any more on the matter. I'm sorry.To clarify: I know the identities of the tracker and the rolecop. I'm not going to say who, because if they are town I want to protect their identities unless they choose to claim. The tracker probably shouldn't: you don't really have much info to share, at least not from last night (nothing adverse happened to TolyK). The rolecop, however, may want to, and I'll tell you that this player's name can be easily shortened to an acronym (which should narrow it down for you, so you know I'm telling the truth if this person does choose to claim).Why'd you mostly but not explicitly out a rolecop?
Wolf and Slithuri : What do you think of NQT death? He seem to be the one that suspect the "less than active players" a lot. Do you think this will bring suspicious to us?I've told you what I know of NQT's death.
Scripten: At one time (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5573292#msg5573292) you said you thought 4maskwolf was flabort's scumbuddy. Would you review your case on 4mask and how it has changed over time?
Also, flavor note. [REDACTED] is a trope used in the SCP files website to act as a sort of thematic veil over information meant to be kept in the dark. May have relevance to Flabort's role. He may have a hidden power.
Toaster, I can't help but notice that the only semisolid player you've gone after this game was Scripten, whom you bailed off of immediately on their doing anything. Do you intend to do any big game hunting today, or harass TolyK, Varee, and anyone who's not voting?
Toaster: Explain your move yesterday, What the deal with scripten and vote swing?
Okay, you got me. I am a Survivor.
I am The Player of BYOR 13 to Whom the Rules Do Not Apply. Apparently that means 1) I don't get actual actions 2) I don't care for the normal Town/Mafia alignment rules. I was hoping for some sort of crazy outsider alignment, or a hilarious role that could edit posts and talk at night and such hilarity, but alas.
I have no actions to claim because I have no non-auto actions.
Okay, you got me. I am a Survivor.Yup.
I'm starting to believe TolyK's motives now, though his claiming methodology still baffles me.My claiming methodology is insane, but it works. :D
TolyK: What do you know of Varee? Why did you give a percentage on Tiruin and Flabort when you hadn't inspected them for actual information?
Scripten, as long as he's looking for an SK I'm fine with him living. You can't kill him now, anyways, because he must be double-killed.
Alright. Why should we trust you to work toward the goals of the town? If the game ends with a mafia win, all you have to do is be in the subset of players left. Therefore, making easy lynches benefits your role and that makes you a liability. Can you explain how I'm wrong, if you think I am?
Varee, who I thought I knew something about, is unknown now. I suspect he's not the SK you're looking for (see? how good that I've blown your cover!), though.
4maskwolf: Claimed roleblocker. Claimed to be now a bodyguard. Saw MBP's rolecop and an as-yet-unnamed tracker. Said tracker tracked a player to TolyK.
TolyK: Claimed cop. Something possibly negative happened to whoever targeted him N2.
Mysteriousbluepuppet: Claimed rolecop. Targeted Toaster N2, saw [REDACTED]-ifier ability.
Nerjin: Tried to pardon Shakerag. From this, almost certainly not the person who daykilled Flabort. Despite Shakerag being SK-Ally, probably not the SK because this would be a dangerously obvious use of a power. Plus, a SK with a pardon? Really?
Scripten: Light hunting early on, has improved.
Tiruin: Due to her miller and its removal, which was claimed by Persus (town), is almost certainly not Mafia. Probably town, too.
Toaster: Survivor. Is grabbing the abilities that have been [REDACTED].
Varee: It's day 3 and he hasn't used his vote yet. Claimed to give out a house nightly; this hasn't happened yet.
Somebody is a tracker.
Somebody caused 4mask to see two other night results.
Cheeetar: The above lines should answer your question. Can you confirm you were blocked N1?
Persus: Immunity to Shakerag. Shakerag cannot action this person, including this person being unlynchable if Shakerag is voting him.
Hey and both people that is trying to get me lynch is dead yeah!Varee: Yes, let's all celebrate the deaths of townies that suspected you. ...I assume that's what you're doing here (correct me if I'm wrong).
Scripten ask me about voting and scare tactic so I FoS slithuri, putting on some pressure trying to get a replyA reasonless FoS is not exactly pressure. At all.
Intentionally causing distraction to draw attention to me did not go as I hope it would.What did you hope would happen? Why did you try to do this? Also, I still want your reads. Who do you think is most likely to be scum, and why have you not been able to give that information for days? Finally, what do you feel comfortable telling us about your power loss?
I've written this up before day time (just in case I survived!) because I am very aware of the fact that this was my fault and people will not be happy with me.Cheeetar: Explain.
Jack A T, what does flabort's lynch tell you?IronyOwl: It tells me that everything flabort did was intended to help the town somehow. More importantly, that is a lynch that scum almost certainly would not have completely avoided. Incredibly easy mislynch. Probably a few anti-town players on the lynch. I intend to go back through Day 2 later (probably during the weekend) and see who focused almost completely or completely on flabort, and who was just sort of on the lynch.
Jack A T:Imp: Knowing what we now know about Shakerag, how long do you think he should have been kept alive? Considering every death with him alive is a death without the high-value roleflip information, do you believe the cumulative loss of information is outweighed by the value of players (quite likely including scum and/or third parties) kept alive?
Shakerag wasn't Town and needed to play to make Town lose, and it's annoying and challenging for us all to not to see roleflips. But Shakerag's Sorry! power probably would have prevented some (or many) night deaths, notably N2 instead of losing both NQT and Persus, we would have only lost one of them.
There is mafia and (probably) at least one serial killer in play; unless the mafia converts there are at least two anti-town killing alignments/killing abilities. The Sorry! auto would have slowed night deaths, and likely delayed or outright prevented all but one night death. Any Town nightkills would have also been leashed, but we have reason to believe there's more than one non-Town killer out there, and alive. Shakerag alive put limits on the nightkills.
Simultaneously, Shakerag could speak with the dead while still alive; granted he was not Town and any use he made of information from this would have not been intentionally for Town's benefit, but when we started to see multiple roleflips of 'Shakerag Did it (Town)' the pressure we put on Shakerag could have gotten information offered to us that Town could use, even if Shakerag offered it just to try and save his own neck for longer.The pressure placed on Shakerag would likely get him to say a bunch of stuff, yes. Said stuff would have been of limited (and quite possibly negative) value to the town. Limited because dead townies tend to be careful around mediums (especially ones like Shakerag after a non-flip) and would likely have been careful about giving him information, because dead scum would have lied about their alignments and quite likely their powers, and because Shakerag could not be trusted to give us unfiltered information (he could, say, lie about inspection results to protect his SK). That is to say, the stuff would have been of limited value due to being information from dubious sources filtered through a dubious (and, as we know now, malicious) source. The high chance of harm to the town comes from the WIFOMiness of all information gained through this, the more direct damage caused by the inevitable misinformation that would come out, and the massive and distracting debate(s) over whether to trust anything Shakerag says dragging us away from scumhunting.
Furthermore, Shakerag's lynch was in place of a possible directly deadly to Town target. Did you not consider these things when you declared Shakerag probably the best D1 lynch target? Or why do you feel that hidden flips are that much worse than a limit on the rate of night kills + the lynch of someone who might have been an anti-Town killer or converter?I considered those things. In the early game, valuable information generally outweighs the life of a townie. Information as valuable as flips, when coming along with the death of an anti-town entity and the prevention of a nightly random randomize, easily outweighs one or two lives that may or may not even be town. Lynching Mafia without a flip, while good, leaves us without the information allowing people to make well-thought-out attempts to connect players (yes, people try to make such connections anyway without flips, but the results are usually quite poor). Lynching the SK, while useful, does not immediately outweigh the importance of keeping death flips working. The "probably" was in my statement pretty much due to the chance of a cult leader.
Quote from: Varee on 22,August 2014, 07:07:34 pm (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5595046#msg5595046)[/size]Hey and both people that is trying to get me lynch is dead yeah!
[/color]Varee[/font][/size]: Yes, let's all celebrate the deaths of townies that suspected you. ...I assume that's what you're doing here (correct me if I'm wrong).[/size]
[/color]Quote from: Varee on 20,August 2014, 08:27:15 pm (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5589258#msg5589258)Intentionally causing distraction to draw attention to me did not go as I hope it would.
What did you hope would happen? Why did you try to do this? Also, I still want your reads. Who do you think is most likely to be scum, and why have you not been able to give that information for days? Finally, what do you feel comfortable telling us about your power loss?[/font]
I've written this up before day time (just in case I survived!) because I am very aware of the fact that this was my fault and people will not be happy with me.Cheeetar: Explain.
I led a lynch against a townie who thought I was scum. Now that he's a confirmed townie, I expected at least some people to immediately want to lynch me. I'm... pleasantly surprised?Cheeetar: Interesting. Do you believe that leading a mislynch against someone who thinks the mislynch leader is scum is scummy enough to warrant an immediate lynch effort against the mislynch leader? Enough to warrant a daykill?
Jack, who are your top scum picks apart from Varee?On scumpicks: I'll be working on getting that together this weekend.
Also: It probably would've been best to gut the SK rather than the SK-ally re: your opinion on best possible lynch. Were the SK out of the game, the SK-ally would instantly fail and thus leave the game, right?
Varee: Apologies for the lack of quotes here. I'm not dealing with the piles of tags.Well i thought it is better tyo point that out as if not it will bring suspision toward em anyway. I dont think that it will help me really though.
Unmarked sarcasm is often hard to recognize in text. Do be careful.
The fact that you made that remark is still interesting, and jokes can say a lot about their tellers in this game. Why did you make that remark? Do you feel happy that your attackers died?
As for your lack of reads, is there at least anyone you suspect of being scum of any sort? If not, why not?
I led a lynch against a townie who thought I was scum. Now that he's a confirmed townie, I expected at least some people to immediately want to lynch me. I'm... pleasantly surprised?Cheeetar: Interesting. Do you believe that leading a mislynch against someone who thinks the mislynch leader is scum is scummy enough to warrant an immediate lynch effort against the mislynch leader? Enough to warrant a daykill?
Obligatory Bah post. :P
Nerjin: Nerjin: I would like to see your thoughts on the Flabort flip.
Reads are rather hard. I am not comfortable with doing them. I can talk about my power loss though. It a oneshot kill that ignore protect. it was stolen last night.
4mask – Roleblocker with a protect? (Not quite sure)
Cheetar
Imp
Irony
Jack A T
Puppet – Role-stealer.
Nerjin – President role. Specific president not stated. Has a Pardon ability.
Scripten –
Silthuri –
Tiruin – Ex-Miller (Definitely Not Scum) [Confirmed by: TolyK]
Toaster – Survivor (Gets Autos from dead players) [Confirmed by: TolyK]
TolyK – Cop-thing (He's stated it's a bit differnet than a normal investigate as I recall)
Varee – Can build houses that he does not understand. Has done nothing yet apparently.
Nerjin, I know you've been around. Do you have any thoughts about the last night?
I am interested by you "Pardon" and wondering what exactly is it. It seem to be somesort of day power but are you willing to share that information?
And we're not getting on you about lurking. At least i am not. I'm suspicious because you've given no indication of doing anything night game. You've played no day game to speak of [with just a few posts active lurking]. That's really it. You've not pressed a case yet that I can recall.
There are exactly 13 players. Plus Web, who is playing a game of "Let's watch the players sweat as they try to figure out my ingenius mechanations."Ingenious? Well, I don't know about going that far...
I can replace in if you need.Wow.
I can replace in if you need.I believe Urist Imiknorris is first up for replace, but I will replace you if he does not respond or says otherwise.
Could we get a votecount, Webadict? I'm curious as to whether Varee's vote will register.It's the weekend. So, later.
Persus: Immunity to Shakerag. Shakerag cannot action this person, including this person being unlynchable if Shakerag is voting him.
Why would Persus have this part of his role if all Shakerag had was autos? You're saying Shakerag's first auto was completely useless except as a buffer against Persus13?
Persus13: What points in flabort's attack on Nerjin do you believe to be the good points?Nerjin: Respond to the above stuff addressed to you.
Nerjin: Why am I the one asking the above question to Persus13, instead of you? You had the chance to try to learn what Persus was thinking were the good points, and you instead just jabbed Persus for his relatively high opinion of flabort's attack. A reflexive defence instead of an informed defence, basically. What makes it so important to strongly indicate you disagree with Persus13 without even trying to figure out exactly what the disagreements are?
updated reads, on flabort and Varee:Part of what caught my eye was how the flabort content started. "I didn't and really still don't feel hostile intent from his day game" is not exactly a phrase I expect to see associated with "Moderate lean Scum," particularly in a case that was based around flabort's day game. Downplaying the scumminess of one's end-of-day target as one votes for them seems like an effort to minimize association with the end result.Spoiler: flabort (click to show/hide)Spoiler: varee (click to show/hide)
Yes, this is Imp attacking flabort for saying he wanted to be alive long enough to learn who tried to kill him, using the post-game reveal to say that he'll learn anyway whether alive or dead. There were a lot of valid reasons to attack flabort. This is not among them. It is a contrived reason, dependent on an unrealistically literal reading of flabort's statement; it is dependent on an assumption that flabort had no interest in dealing with the person(s) who wanted him dead and cared only about learning who they were. The assumption is, of course, not supported by flabort's actions, including his repeated assertions that one of his reasons for attacking Nerjin was a belief that Nerjin was the daykiller.Yes, I was panicking too. Somewhat. You don't gather ~5 votes, get daykilled, and then get the only votes so far back on you and not panic about that; someone wants you dead, and that someone is very determined. I want to be alive long enough to learn who.That doesn't sound or feel like a new player playing Town. Furthermore he's made a claim of being very, very familiar with hammers. So he also knows he doesn't 'need to be alive' to learn anything; we learn everything when the game is over no matter when we die.
Scripten : so how exactly am i "hampering town" i did notdo much to benfit town but that is not hampering town...
I am not doing any less hunting than slithuri or wolf. It might be ture that I offer more than just your typical scum hunting question but I will say that they are my point of view. I dont see harm in offering alternate perspective, why should all the people focus on a single entity that is most like to be lynch anyway. Boarden your vision a bit wont hurt you. while it is less focus, in the end that might win you the game.Scripten : so how exactly am i "hampering town" i did notdo much to benfit town but that is not hampering town...
Specifically, by not hunting, giving reads, or... well, doing anything during the day game unless prompted or handed information you're hampering the town by not playing as part of a team. I'm not convinced that you're scum, but that sort of confusion muddies the scumhunting waters, if you will. Therefore, you may not be a mafia member, but your play is not furthering the town's goals.
While a full claim isn't necessarily a bad thing, just because you have a protective role doesn't really mean you aren't scum. For all we know, you could just as easily be a sort of scum jailkeeper. Or entirely lying about your powers. We just don't know.
Tolyk: You think the current info is enough? I dont think we have nearly enough information. There have been nothing but town dead(not counting shakerag). So what exactly is the information you are talkng about. Also you say you target nqt last night. Are you willing to share about that.No, it's not enough, but opening up everyone's cards will definitely not catch all the scum, so I think all the information we have on table should not be increased.
Nerjin: Why am I the one asking the above question to Persus13, instead of you? You had the chance to try to learn what Persus was thinking were the good points, and you instead just jabbed Persus for his relatively high opinion of flabort's attack. A reflexive defence instead of an informed defence, basically. What makes it so important to strongly indicate you disagree with Persus13 without even trying to figure out exactly what the disagreements are?
It just not i dont want to give read, it is just too much for me to handle. I tried to not get involve and people keep making me get involve and now when i tried get involve people say I am distracting/annoying. you guys are sure hard to please.
This not knowing what my god damn power do is driving me crazy .....
You know, looking back through older posts, Cheetar has been acting exceptionally strange Day 3. I'm not sure whether Flabort's flip really deserves quite so much paranoia. However, the thing that's stuck in my head is that he puts a FoS on Nerjin, who goes for Varee, who is obviously a pretty easy lynch right now, and as such the thread got diverted for a few pages. Something doesn't sit right with that.
Nerjin: How, exactly, does your pardon work? Specifically, I'm curious as to how it activates and why you could not have used it on a quickhammer like what Flabort set up.
Could you quote some of the posts that are tipping you off? Also, you seem to be building more of a case on me than Cheetar.
I can pardon someone from being lynched. I post in thread that I [b)Pardon X[/b) and then they don't get lynched. As for why I didn't use it on Flabort's thing? Well blame Web. I did use it, but apparently a few minutes after Hammer is too long to wait therefore making it pretty useless against hammers. In fact, I don't really see the point of it at all aside from preventing a person from being targeted for lynchings... I dunno. Maybe I'm just not creative enough. I'm still a little sore over that.
The power i have been using nightly is a protect. On flabort n 1 and tolk n2.Varee: Why did you select those two people to protect? (I'm surprised nobody has asked this yet.)
Well if your action suceed then someone is redirecting/randomising my action as it did not give nqt any power.....Quick question: what do you know about what your construction power gives its targets?
What, were you the one affected? :p
and there's something about TolyK and his 'sorry to whoever targeted me' thing that's irking me.
The power i have been using nightly is a protect. On flabort n 1 and tolk n2.Varee: Why did you select those two people to protect? (I'm surprised nobody has asked this yet.)Well if your action suceed then someone is redirecting/randomising my action as it did not give nqt any power.....Quick question: what do you know about what your construction power gives its targets?
Also, whoever targeted me, I'm sorry about that. Unless of course it's a horse. Then just keep it.
<.<
People not to lynch:
- Toaster 98%
- Tiruin 95%
- Flabort 75% if he keeps promise, 35% if not
- Varee 60%
I currently won't explain why, but. Yeah.
[size=78%]The thing is I ws trying to give NQT power but it is not there in his death list. so I think the build just fire off at random people i think.Also, whoever targeted me, I'm sorry about that. Unless of course it's a horse. Then just keep it.
<.<
So, this was bugging me. We know that you were targeted by somebody (result of the anonymous tracker) and we also know that Varee tried to target you (possibly unsuccessful? Varee believes his protect was redirected- could you clarify that, Varee?) Varee also believes an action was taken from him. From the way you were talking Day 2 (I will only reveal how I know these things on Day 3) it looked like you were begging to be night actioned by scum.
Based on this: You have some sort of ability that destroys the powers of people that action you at night, and this is how Tiruin lost her miller?
Varee, what ability did your one-shot kill get replaced with (seeing as Tiruin got her miller replaced with filler, and that was apparently a result of actioning TolyK.)People not to lynch:
- Toaster 98%
- Tiruin 95%
- Flabort 75% if he keeps promise, 35% if not
- Varee 60%
I currently won't explain why, but. Yeah.
Where did you get those numbers on Varee?
I'M PANICKING
Damnit
What i'm wondering is ifwe got individual chances of getting out of panic mode, or it's a global thing.
I can imagine some poor sob ( probably me) staying panicked forever.
I'M PANICKING
Damnit
What i'm wondering is ifwe got individual chances of getting out of panic mode, or it's a global thing.
I can imagine some poor sob ( probably me) staying panicked forever.
What makes you think that the panic will run out? Just gut feeling or do you have some other information?
No, i see the global because most people here do claim to have been panicked. Likely either SK ( in wich case he only would be unnafected, presumably) or MAYBE scum, and i expect that the scumbuddies would be spared of it.
Aside from that, I want to ask TolyK how you figure all of those players are town?Just trust me. :p
Aside from that, I want to ask TolyK how you figure all of those players are town?Just trust me. :p
I got Toaster's survivor right (on the second try, since I forgot that nothing based on actions was 100% believable, i.e. inspection order isn't guaranteed), which would've been much less likely if I didn't actually have an inspect (and scum with an inspect is something I've never seen... >.>).
The others are definitely not lying, but their towniness isn't quite confirmed (not action-ly, but logically).
So... just trust me? Until I share all my info at some point of the game.
Persus: Immunity to Shakerag. Shakerag cannot action this person, including this person being unlynchable if Shakerag is voting him.
Why would Persus have this part of his role if all Shakerag had was autos? You're saying Shakerag's first auto was completely useless except as a buffer against Persus13?
Toaster: do you think your power and affect the random target of my auto?
The second night power should fail as nqt died but i recieve no such information.
I am not doing any less hunting than slithuri or wolf.
Toaster, something about your role is off to me. Aside from answering the quoted question: Do you mind at all explaining more about what exactly your role is? Is there nothing to it except an auto that steals roles from people? Do you know why when you were role investigated, only 'lawless scavenger' showed?
How does NQT's auto work- if it's an auto, how exactly does he choose how the random abilities work?
I did use it, but apparently a few minutes after Hammer is too long to wait therefore making it pretty useless against hammers. In fact, I don't really see the point of it at all aside from preventing a person from being targeted for lynchings... I dunno.
I'm not likely lying, and not likely scum either, confirming townies...
@EveryoneSo... Post restriction or something? O_o
Sorry for breaking character. I'll try not to do so in the future.
On the Mass Panic: I doubt a townie did this, because I imagine they'd claim it. Somehow, I doubt this is a Mafia ability either, since (assuming it hit everyone or at least everyone besides the person who used it; I admit this is a large assumption) it'd affect their team. I get the feeling this is a third party action, so the SK is a reasonable suspect.PFP
I got panicked too.
Toaster, you have an auto that lets you decide how random things work. This 50/50 chance for nothing to work is random. Are you going to let us not be panicked tonight and use our abilities, or not?
...or could I just entirely lock down the night phase and only let the day game happen. HMM.That is the best case scenario you could do. :D
...or could I just entirely lock down the night phase and only let the day game happen. HMM.That is the best case scenario you could do. :D
Persus13, it was me or Flabort and I had a very small window of time in which to decide. I'm incredibly glad he ended up not being town.
Also: huzzah for no night deaths! We're doing something right.Both of these sound like you trying to ingratiate yourself to the town.
4mask, your input for the night is a... Vote then an immediate unvote? :(
What is your wincon?All anti-town factions dead.
I see desperation, but not suspicion (is it possible to suspect yourself?) It was a choice between me (a confirmed townie to myself) and Shakerag dying. In such a time pressured moment, I didn't at all feel comfortable saying 'yes okay let's let any one person decide who should die here.'
Quick hammering Shakerag wasn't necessary for me to win, but it sure seems like it helped!
The sk ally is a dude who's trying to help the sk, so he's anti-town. By getting rid of him we're one step closer to winning.Unless I'm really missing something, you're contradicting yourself here.
I claim no responsibility for preventing deaths this night, nor do I claim to have no responsibility :D
And uh, congratulations on losing the miller?
Waitaminute. I knew something wasn't in my post.That night, Tiruin actioned me as well, and was de-millered, which is now confirmed by a dead townie. Thus, Tiruin is definitely not scum and very likely town.Also, whoever targeted me, I'm sorry about that. Unless of course it's a horse. Then just keep it.What's all this about?
<.<
Tiruin: One of Toaster's autos rigs probability-based events.I understand myself to not fear myself.
Did your panic ability affect you as well?
Also then what did he mean by locking the night? Did I miss that?Toaster has claimed an auto (specifically, the one he stole from NQT's corpse) that lets him decide the outcome of chance-based events. Theoretically, he could use this power to prevent anyone except you (because you're not panicked) from acting, as well as preventing the panic effect from wearing off.
Ah, good. Now that Tiruin's here, it's time to start revealing some stuff.. . .No.
Tiruin: You received powers N1 and N2, yes?
I can talk about my power loss though. It a oneshot kill that ignore protect. it was stolen last night.Varee: You omitted something here. Why did you choose to lose the oneshot kill?
Not the answer I was expecting.None at all.
Tiruin: Do you have any power, or did you have any power during N2, that would have interfered with powers aimed at you?
And, i'll have to vote Tiruin. That ability is better serving the scum. They don't need fancy things, when they can just nightkill easily while town/sk has trouble doing anything.Oooo, interesting! :O
Jack: so it is you who take my power? Anyway back to the point, as i have answer the rvs about one shot, it is really hard for me to decide to use it so i just let it go. What are you planning to do with that power?Varee: I do not have your power, but I am the one who forced you to give it away. Tiruin is supposed to have your power, but she claims that she doesn't have it. This is a problem.
Does your ''decide luck'' thing allow you to both increase the chance to 100% and Keep it going at the same time ?If yes that would be very, strong. Also, does it affect only you ? Could use it to look for kill abilities. I doubt it, but never hurt to ask.
UI is totally correct that Web has counters to everything planned out. I'm sure some anti-town has the ability to ignore the panic (or that anti-town sourced it; I'm almost positive Tiruin isn't Mafia, but SK isn't totally ruled out. I doubt it though) or bypass it in some other way. Anyway, we'll see what Web says about clarification.Note: If I'm the SK--that means (and in truth giving an SK a Miller ability is an -_-) I'm lacking an Auto.
EBWOP: That counter may be Tiruin being scum and scum not being effected. It may instead be someone with a power that screws up power gains/losses, or someone with immunity to the issues panic causes. Whatever it is, there is a counter out there.Counter...erh? I literally have /nothing/ to block whatever you can throw at me (in that manner), so this is either evidence that someone is connected to me that I've no idea of--or someone has action'd me in some manner that affects...other actions coming in towards me?
Varee and Tiruin's claims regarding my power transfer are evidence of this, I think. Either someone's lying, or something screwed up the transfer.
He can make all action fail
Quick question toaster. What would stop you from lockdowning everyone but the scum and win like a dirty Survivor ?
...Waitaminute. I knew something wasn't in my post.That night, Tiruin actioned me as well, and was de-millered, which is now confirmed by a dead townie. Thus, Tiruin is definitely not scum and very likely town.Also, whoever targeted me, I'm sorry about that. Unless of course it's a horse. Then just keep it.What's all this about?
<.<
TolyK.
I never targeted you. I hit Cheeetar and Flabort.
TolyK: Were you claiming to be certain that Tiruin had actioned you, or was that conjecture based on her loss of her miller auto?I was saying that since a confirmed town confirmed her loss of the Miller, and her Filler Ability was taken from me.
Not the answer I was expecting.I did lose "Filler Ability".
TolyK: Did you choose to lose a power called "Filler Ability" N1? If not, what power did you choose to lose?
I'm not sure if a Varee lynch is the best shot we have right now. He's been very unengaged in scum hunting, but he's also been unfailingly honest about things, and Toaster could potentially screw us over really badly with his auto. Varee has played mafia here before- would anybody who's played with Varee before clarify if this is how he generally acts?
Clarification is in; we are go for lockdown. I sent in the request to lock down everyone, pending further plans being made.Query--I saw Cheeetar(?) say you got this from NQT but...NQT has no Autos?
Tiruin, i'm voting you because i can't understand how that panic could be a town ability. Complete Lockdown is WAY too strong for a townie, especially when another of the townies had the ability to combo with it. The only way to balance this would be scum that could ignore it, which would make the ability basically useless and an hindrance to town....
But, as a scum tool, it's strong but counterable. Indeed, the random chance could be used to defeat it, and the combo could not be used, and after a few turn the game'd be back to normal.
It's a completely meta analysis, but i can't see your actions as Town, and so you get my vote.
So we don't know how Tiruin lost her miller? Things are starting to make a lot less sense in my head.What's the sense you got here, buddy?
...Uh huh....Waitaminute. I knew something wasn't in my post.That night, Tiruin actioned me as well, and was de-millered, which is now confirmed by a dead townie. Thus, Tiruin is definitely not scum and very likely town.Also, whoever targeted me, I'm sorry about that. Unless of course it's a horse. Then just keep it.What's all this about?
<.<
TolyK.
I never targeted you. I hit Cheeetar and Flabort.
I was sure you targeted me to take away a power of mine. Because you got my Filler Ability...
No, Persus claimed to have destroyed her Miller ability.And he did (or for you jolly skeptics out there, he destroyed my AUTO).
I'm voting you on having a power that's not town. Kinda like if i cop someone wiht a nightkill i fuckign accuse him. Your panic! is not a town power, i can feel it. I'd verify it too, but then again i won't be able to. Well played, scum....Interesting method of jumping to conclusions. It becomes an isolation notion of 'not' instead of 'seems like' pertaining to the power, huh.
The only catch with lynching me is if the scum have some way to bypass the lock (even if it's one shot), then they'll take the chance to off me, and you'll lose the benefits.
I'm not sure if a Varee lynch is the best shot we have right now. He's been very unengaged in scum hunting, but he's also been unfailingly honest about things, and Toaster could potentially screw us over really badly with his auto. Varee has played mafia here before- would anybody who's played with Varee before clarify if this is how he generally acts?
In the last game I played with him, the CYOMask game, he acted very similarly. He was mostly engaged with his own powers, to the point where he gimped me for almost the entire game. (I was town, and expected that only a scum players would attack a town player at random.) It seems to me that he's not a particularly good asset for town and is fairly obsessed with having people talk about his powers. That said, he was a resurrecting townie, not scum, and cost us several days of deliberation.
*Tiruin flails around.The only catch with lynching me is if the scum have some way to bypass the lock (even if it's one shot), then they'll take the chance to off me, and you'll lose the benefits.
If the scum have some way to bypass the lock, we need to get rid of you anyway (your lock down is useless to everyone except scum and you have no reason to side with us.) As a survivor, your death is not a big loss to town. If that's the only catch- unvote Varee, vote Toaster.
I have no idea what anyone is saying about whatever lockdown is here because if I get what Toaster's claim said (which I lost the link but he did fullclaim? earlier with his role and the usual 'I am [rolename]'...that post) and this thing (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5607685#msg5607685)...Clarification is in; we are go for lockdown. I sent in the request to lock down everyone, pending further plans being made.Query--I saw Cheeetar(?) say you got this from NQT but...NQT has no Autos?
I explained it in my last post already. Whatever your alignment may be, your power as you described is a boon to Mafia before being one to Town. Haven't seen wubbah give townies powers detrimental to themselves and other towns, especially should they be given a time limit to use them,@Orange: You described it. Ok!
Complaining i'm evasive when you can't read 3 lines IS kneejerk. I'll change that for OMGUS, because that's clearly what it is. Instead of trying to spin purple prose, how about you explain how your power could be town alignment ? Again, by meta, it's game breaking for Town ( especially since another townie had the combo key) while it's effective but counterable if scum. WHy would Wubbah break his own game just like that?
Haven't seen wubbah give townies powers detrimental to themselves and other towns, especially should they be given a time limit to use them,What?
Complaining i'm evasive when you can't read 3 lines IS kneejerkWhat. Three. Lines.
I'll change that for OMGUS, because that's clearly what it is....Yeah. Like everything I said in connected to you being voted equals an OMGUS. It's not like I voted you out of suspicion...no. That wasn't obvious in my tone. My toooone~
Instead of trying to spin purple prose, how about you explain how your power could be town alignment ?...So you can't even read someone trying to be detailed. Ok.
Again, by meta, it's game breaking for Town ( especially since another townie had the combo key) while it's effective but counterable if scum. WHy would Wubbah break his own game just like that?Again:
So we don't know how Tiruin lost her miller? Things are starting to make a lot less sense in my head.What's the sense you got here, buddy?
The same sense you got in D1? MMmmm?
That night, Tiruin actioned me as well, and was de-millered, which is now confirmed by a dead townie. Thus, Tiruin is definitely not scum and very likely town.
Tiruin: Urist Imiknoriss (previously 4maskwolf) got the nightly results for two players. One was a rolecop investigation (TolyK initiated on Toaster) that revealed somebody had been stealing the role abilities of dead players- this is what the [REDACTED] in people's roles after they die has been. NQT's redacted was apparently an auto that let him control luck (or so claims Toaster, who has been stealing the role abiliites.)@orange: Oh huh. Nice to know :o Thanks for that.So we don't know how Tiruin lost her miller? Things are starting to make a lot less sense in my head.What's the sense you got here, buddy?
The same sense you got in D1? MMmmm?
I got the sense that TolyK was claiming responsibility for you not being miller, or at least having investigated you. You were his '95% not scum' on Day 2 when he didn't want to explain how he knew things.That night, Tiruin actioned me as well, and was de-millered, which is now confirmed by a dead townie. Thus, Tiruin is definitely not scum and very likely town.
This looked to me like he was claiming responsibility for your de-millering.
That is to say: Toaster steals the role ability, and then nobody knows what it is because it doesn't show up when the victim flips- it's removed completely.It steals on death or...at the time of death but before roleflip?
Tiruin, i'm voting you because i can't understand how that panic could be a town ability. Complete Lockdown is WAY too strong for a townie, especially when another of the townies had the ability to combo with it. The only way to balance this would be scum that could ignore it, which would make the ability basically useless and an hindrance to town.
I take issue with your points B and C in that a kill is immediately my fault.
Also, don't under- or overestimate your abilities.
I take issue with your points B and C in that a kill is immediately my fault.
If we lose all our town abilities (except TolyK's investigate, assuming we're trusting him on that count) then we'd damn well better get a safe night out of it.
Do you mean me to explain my power in terms of how it is town?That's part of what I want to know. Now if you'd answer instead of throwing empty posts whit maybe we could go forward.
I take issue with your points B and C in that a kill is immediately my fault.
If we lose all our town abilities (except TolyK's investigate, assuming we're trusting him on that count) then we'd damn well better get a safe night out of it.
Sure, but it's not my fault if the scum has some sort of lockdown bypass; (double) lynching me then won't do you any good.
My case isn't weak, it's your comprehension that is sorely lacking. I'm associating that a Panic power that is either blatantly broken if town but fair when scum is most likely owned by a scum.::)
WHat is also lacking is your answers. Stop deflecting.Like you bother to quote and respond to them given your brevity. Actually, did you even read them? Because deflecting is the last thing you'll end up thinking if you bothered to.
That's part of what I want to know. Now if you'd answer instead of throwing empty posts whit maybe we could go forward.Oh good! Now explain what makes a 'town' power so we can meet on common ground, for one.
There's a reason Policy lynching survivors is a thing. The farther this game go the bigger a threat you are. Doubly since you scavenge other's ability. I'm personally not for lynching you yet, but it may come to it in a few days, depending on lynch and night results.There's a reason there are reasons behind whatever 'policy' procedure exists.
NQT/Toaster's probability control power, can result in what is (unless countered, and there's almost definitely a counter) basically a complete lockdown.Ah.
The farther this game go the bigger a threat you are. Doubly since you scavenge other's ability.
I'm voting you on having a power that's not town. Kinda like if i cop someone wiht a nightkill i fuckign accuse him. Your panic! is not a town power, i can feel it. I'd verify it too, but then again i won't be able to. Well played, scum.
There, have fun Tiruin. Seriously, rather than writing wall of HOW WHAT and other shit, try reading. It was 2 pages back, jesusQuoteTiruin, i'm voting you because i can't understand how that panic could be a town ability. Complete Lockdown is WAY too strong for a townie, especially when another of the townies had the ability to combo with it. The only way to balance this would be scum that could ignore it, which would make the ability basically useless and an hindrance to town.
Now do answer the queston rather than flounder about.
My case isn't weak, it's your comprehension that is sorely lacking. I'm associating that a Panic power that is either blatantly broken if town but fair when scum is most likely owned by a scum.
WHat is also lacking is your answers. Stop deflecting.QuoteDo you mean me to explain my power in terms of how it is town?That's part of what I want to know. Now if you'd answer instead of throwing empty posts whit maybe we could go forward.
I understand that perfectly Jack. I also know he never claimed so. Seriously, can nobody understand english ?PS: Did you even read the conditions of my power?
I've seen, 4 times now, that giving both the PANIC and Probability alterance to town is ridiculous. If Wubbah did this, then whenever panic is launched, the probability guy can simply decide to completely lockdown the night game forever, until lynched or killed by someone that is somehow immune to panic. This is grossly overpowered. Giving both the keys to a complete night lockdown combo to town is ridiculous. Like, not happening. Rather, i believe that Panic is a scum ability. Powerful, sow confusion, but does not make the game completely unplayable. Town has a counter, game is not automatically broken.
Again, i'm utterly baffled how you can't do anything but say HOW. HOW. HOW. YOu can write and hopefully read, you aren't braindead to the point you can't understand that shit, right ? RIGHT?
Oh and the white knight show themselves.
Did you get here on a bus ?
Well, when people tell me to shut up because i offend their frail sensibilities, I call bullshit.It's more 'respect as a player'.
I've read your power, obviously. I'm able to read and understand english, even if it's not my first language. Now if only i could expect the same from everyone else, that game would be something else than 2 page oh whuuut? whuuut? and other fucking stupidities.Your perception of how 'broken' it is is subjective and personal. Your viewpoint changes pretty drastically from before to now, to an 'since you are scum' ideology. Pretty much doesn't speak well of scumhunting at all given the distinction of how you're able to verse your logic.
You aren't the mod, neither am I. I've played quite a few BYOR back fuckign 3 years ago, and i've never seen completely broken games from wubbah. Except KILL WEBADICT. Giving town your Panic, with the condition set, and formerly NHQ now Toasty power IS broken.
I'm voting you since you are scum. Hell, i could simply inspect your abilities tonight and confirm it. Depending on toaster, now.
Agression is useful to put pressure when your interlocutor is unalbe or unwilling to answer questions. You don't see me insulting someone like Toaster,Yeah...useful if the other is not aware that that is the case..Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Level 1, straight 3 ability wizard weak
Never seen you talk so much, tho. Is it because i kicked the hornet nest ? Can't handle having a vote on you? Classic Scum...You've a real jaded viewpoint on someone who is active enough to post at this time.
This is circonstantial and uses meta analysis. The fact that voting you made you OMGUS me is only reinforcing it.No, an OMGUS is subjective by perception. I voted you--initially, to get you talking (as a sort of emphasis or leverage vote). What else is left as interpretation by the viewer.
Tiruin, do you know ahead of time what powers you get at 'X' amount of players?Yes.
So not having a nightkill for scum is overpowered?
If he's allied with the town, he sets himself up to be nightkilled,depends on the source of the panic. He's setting himself to be killed IF scum can NK, which would need Tiruin to be town. ANd in any case, Tiruin is not necessary anymore. Now that the panic is on, he just need to keep it going. It's all Toaster game now.
Yes. I am seriously asking that. Because it gives detail to my knowledge of who you are.QuoteSo not having a nightkill for scum is overpowered?
Are you SERIOUSLY asking this ?
Yes
Yes it is.
Also an OMGUS is not perception. I voted you, you came right back with a vote. That's an OMGUS. Deny it if you want, it is.. . .I'm judging what an OMGUS is by added reference to the meaning of it in the BM.
wat.
The whole fucking point is that if Tiruin was town, There would NOT have been any disadvantages. Toaster power was NQH power at the start, who is a confirmed townie. Can't you see ?
Even if NOW its a 3rd party that got it, the fact that both powers would be owned by townies at the start makes it at the very least unlikely unless Wubbah got hit on the head and decided to give town an easy win.
Keep defending your hubby, Nerjin,:3
Yes, i'm judging you because you being town means Wubbah is a crazy. I've played many wubbah game, he's not a crazy.
THere would be no disadvantages since If town , you ability would have likely affected scum too. If it didn't it would be completely useless save for screwing your teammates. So, if you are town and your ability affect scum, then the lockdown also remove the NK from the game and transform it in a day game exclusively, barring some scum being immune and whatnot.So isn't that a good thing? For everyone BUT SCUM!?
Tiruin, MBP: Toaster claims to have gotten this confirmed by Webadict. Shouldn't we at least give it a chance of a flawless town victory? And also lynch Toaster for his revive so he can't screw us over quite as badly if he so wishes?I'd not go with lynching TOaster given MBP//TolyK's claims on him, meaning I'm against Toaster being killed in that manner, if he's non-scum. TolyK's claims as a {Town/Neutral} note.
Shakerag I'm going to get lynched today. I will revive. What is your emotional reaction to this? Also, who else do you suspect of being scum?Err, as in, Flabort reviving and all.
Clarification is in; we are go for lockdown. I sent in the request to lock down everyone, pending further plans being made :).
This being after Webadict was active and Toaster asked for clarifications on if lockdown was possible:\o/Clarification is in; we are go for lockdown. I sent in the request to lock down everyone, pending further plans being made :).
Tirurin flabort revive when someone day kill him at d1 extend. He later say that his power work once per cycleSo lynching Toaster won't work then given his request, presumably due to how it works out.
I'm up for a mass claim on Day 4, if and only if Toaster's plan works. Given that he could screw us over, and as a survivor it'd just help his wincon, I think we should lynch him today so we can threaten him with a day 4 lynch if he doesn't go through with complete lockdown.So...Toaster then?
And yeah, extend.
Jack: I have a feeling thatyour plan might not work. Certain power might not be blockable.Varee: Exactly my point. There's almost definitely some sort of strong counter. By the way, when TolyK says your kill's name, please say whether it's true or not.
Please maintain a chill atmosphere.
Webadict: Imp has not been online since the 23rd. Please prod and probably replace.I prodded her a bit. Seems she hasn't been on to receive said prods.
Fine.That's alright. I don't mind anger. Just try not to be too angry at players. Be angry with their play. Then we can all go back to killing each other amiably.
I'm easy to anger when people dilly dally, just saying.
This! D:Fine.That's alright. I don't mind anger. Just try not to be too angry at players. Be angry with their play. Then we can all go back to killing each other amiably.
I'm easy to anger when people dilly dally, just saying.
Let me know if anything's wrong.
Day ends Thursday 9 PMish CST (Approximately 46 hours from this post.)
M'eh, no. I don't see an actual answer, but i'll drop it off for now.@_@
Might I humbly suggest Toaster, TolyK?I don't know. We know that he isn't town, but lynching him could hamper our night (due to backlash etc etc).
Same question to you: Why did you have a Miller power? Same answer: To nerf my role....Uh huh....Waitaminute. I knew something wasn't in my post.That night, Tiruin actioned me as well, and was de-millered, which is now confirmed by a dead townie. Thus, Tiruin is definitely not scum and very likely town.Also, whoever targeted me, I'm sorry about that. Unless of course it's a horse. Then just keep it.What's all this about?
<.<
TolyK.
I never targeted you. I hit Cheeetar and Flabort.
I was sure you targeted me to take away a power of mine. Because you got my Filler Ability...
So I got an ability that IS JUST THE SAME AS PANICKED IN DETAIL AND EFFECT, for some reason?
Because its very much like YOU TARGETED ME given the usage of that power there, now.
So tell me TolyK, how in the world would you have a power of...yours..when said power is a detriment if you have it?
>_>
Well, I don't know.Well it too late for that but I think you got the name right
Any other ideas?
Wait a second. Varee, don't say much more about your abilities, except to confirm that I got your kill name right. Jack, what exactly did you do these two nights?
Same question to you: Why did you have a Miller power? Same answer: To nerf my role.Err, my question wasn't sarcastic. It was based on your wording in the quote mentioned. You said I targeted you to...get your power.
Also, it's not the same. You have a 50% chance not to fail your ability, but to lose an ability.
... Right?
Lynching him is a better guarantee of co-operation with town (because then he is threatened by us) than letting him have free roam.Either we don't lynch him and lynch the scummiest person alive or we go straight with lynching him?
Lynching him is a better guarantee of co-operation with town (because then he is threatened by us) than letting him have free roam.Either we don't lynch him and lynch the scummiest person alive or we go straight with lynching him?
I'm a bit fried on comprehension this day...
...Same question to you: Why did you have a Miller power? Same answer: To nerf my role.Err, my question wasn't sarcastic. It was based on your wording in the quote mentioned. You said I targeted you to...get your power.
Also, it's not the same. You have a 50% chance not to fail your ability, but to lose an ability.
... Right?
Also yes. It is quite much the same. 50% fail. 50% lose any ability (even itself...)
Explain please :O
What do you mean no luck -_- It has exactly the same-...Same question to you: Why did you have a Miller power? Same answer: To nerf my role.Err, my question wasn't sarcastic. It was based on your wording in the quote mentioned. You said I targeted you to...get your power.
Also, it's not the same. You have a 50% chance not to fail your ability, but to lose an ability.
... Right?
Also yes. It is quite much the same. 50% fail. 50% lose any ability (even itself...)
Explain please :O
I thought you targeted me in order to take one of my powers, of which I gave you my "Filler Ability".
It turns out that Jack gave you it from me.
Different 50% chances, so no luck there to you.
I don't understand what it is you're not understanding.
Toaster can you give me the house tonight ^_^...Weren't you the housemaker?
So toaster, who will you be directing the power too?
And, i'll have to vote Tiruin. That ability is better serving the scum. They don't need fancy things, when they can just nightkill easily while town/sk has trouble doing anything.What does scum "not needing fancy things" have to do with inconveniencing a lot of other people?
Tiruin, i'm voting you because i can't understand how that panic could be a town ability. Complete Lockdown is WAY too strong for a townie, especially when another of the townies had the ability to combo with it. The only way to balance this would be scum that could ignore it, which would make the ability basically useless and an hindrance to town.Did you miss this? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5572491;topicseen#msg5572491) Surely murdering every other player in the game is weaker than a 50% roleblock debuff with a 50% chance to fade each night? I'd even peg 13 players as harder to hit than N4, at that. There was, unless I'm missing something, a pretty decent chance of her never getting to use it at all.
But, as a scum tool, it's strong but counterable. Indeed, the random chance could be used to defeat it, and the combo could not be used, and after a few turn the game'd be back to normal.
It's a completely meta analysis, but i can't see your actions as Town, and so you get my vote.
Heh, that's true. But i do fear that then it would advantage them. They got a survivor they can keep around, and Panic with him render rolecopping moot. If they get 2-3 favorable lynch they got it golden. And the further we go, the easier it will be fore them, knowing what sides they are on and all.And what the hell is this all about? You're worried that if Toaster turns on us AND scum gets 2-3 free lynches we're going to lose? Why even bother with that kind of scenario?
I've seen, 4 times now, that giving both the PANIC and Probability alterance to town is ridiculous. If Wubbah did this, then whenever panic is launched, the probability guy can simply decide to completely lockdown the night game forever, until lynched or killed by someone that is somehow immune to panic. This is grossly overpowered. Giving both the keys to a complete night lockdown combo to town is ridiculous. Like, not happening. Rather, i believe that Panic is a scum ability. Powerful, sow confusion, but does not make the game completely unplayable. Town has a counter, game is not automatically broken.This is better, but it relies on a town massclaim, everyone trusting each other, and there being no other counters to it. A better question might be whether Panic would really be so useless. You can only use it IF- not when- the player count is exactly 13, it's a day ability so it can't catch anyone unawares, and it targets everyone so everyone is likely to realize at some point that it's been used. Then it's just a matter of its town counter deciding to block everyone he doesn't trust and let everyone he does trust off the hook? How is that a specific-situation scum one-shot?
Simply because if the survivor decide to side with scum, late in the game he'll have a plethora of auto. He already got a revive from it, he could very well get a auto lockdown or some other power that would make lynching him harder for town, like a double vote or somesuch. So, the later in the game it gets, the harder he will likely be to lynch.This is a fair point, though. If we are going to murder Toaster- and I still approve of not- we're better off doing it sooner rather than later.
Clarification is in; we are go for lockdown. I sent in the request to lock down everyone, pending further plans being made.*town-survivor brofist*
Idea: Seeing as Toaster already has a revive, we should lynch him today so if he lets us down tonight (aka townies die) we won't have to spend another two days lynching him for town to have a chance in the night phase.Bad for four reasons.
Good? Bad?
If the scum have some way to bypass the lock, we need to get rid of you anyway (your lock down is useless to everyone except scum and you have no reason to side with us.) As a survivor, your death is not a big loss to town. If that's the only catch- unvote Varee, vote Toaster.I'd disagree on this, too. He's got a very good reason to side with us- we'll lynch him if he's anything below neutral, and possibly if he's anything below helpful.
Can someone sum up all the important stuff please? 67 pages is a lot.Aw hell.
Quote from: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 26, 2014, 04:16:32 pm
And, i'll have to vote Tiruin. That ability is better serving the scum. They don't need fancy things, when they can just nightkill easily while town/sk has trouble doing anything.
What does scum "not needing fancy things" have to do with inconveniencing a lot of other people?
Quote from: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 27, 2014, 12:24:11 am
Heh, that's true. But i do fear that then it would advantage them. They got a survivor they can keep around, and Panic with him render rolecopping moot. If they get 2-3 favorable lynch they got it golden. And the further we go, the easier it will be fore them, knowing what sides they are on and all.
And what the hell is this all about? You're worried that if Toaster turns on us AND scum gets 2-3 free lynches we're going to lose? Why even bother with that kind of scenario?
Quote from: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 27, 2014, 04:16:14 pm
I've seen, 4 times now, that giving both the PANIC and Probability alterance to town is ridiculous. If Wubbah did this, then whenever panic is launched, the probability guy can simply decide to completely lockdown the night game forever, until lynched or killed by someone that is somehow immune to panic. This is grossly overpowered. Giving both the keys to a complete night lockdown combo to town is ridiculous. Like, not happening. Rather, i believe that Panic is a scum ability. Powerful, sow confusion, but does not make the game completely unplayable. Town has a counter, game is not automatically broken.
This is better, but it relies on a town massclaim, everyone trusting each other, and there being no other counters to it. A better question might be whether Panic would really be so useless. You can only use it IF- not when- the player count is exactly 13, it's a day ability so it can't catch anyone unawares, and it targets everyone so everyone is likely to realize at some point that it's been used. Then it's just a matter of its town counter deciding to block everyone he doesn't trust and let everyone he does trust off the hook? How is that a specific-situation scum one-shot?
And for that matter, care to explain how a scum had a miller ability?
Quote from: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 27, 2014, 04:16:14 pm
Simply because if the survivor decide to side with scum, late in the game he'll have a plethora of auto. He already got a revive from it, he could very well get a auto lockdown or some other power that would make lynching him harder for town, like a double vote or somesuch. So, the later in the game it gets, the harder he will likely be to lynch.
This is a fair point, though. If we are going to murder Toaster- and I still approve of not- we're better off doing it sooner rather than later.
PFP
What does a house do?
Toaster: here the exact word of the power
Your unstoppable need to build things causes a random player (including you) is given a random ability that coincides with their role each Night. You may choose to target (excluding you) this as a free action.
The ability steal is a Auto that that scavenge the ability of a dead player, and REDACTED it. Also, losing it = death, apparently.
Nah, that's me. Yeah, I've been getting those abilities, in return for not having any to start with.
For the record:
Shakerag: An auto that does nothing, but is removed first if an auto ability is removed.
Flabort: His revive, which pretty much works as he claimed it
NQT: He can dictate how random abilities work. Therefore, it's extremely safe to assume that he didn't kill himself, block claims notwithstanding.
Persus: Immunity to Shakerag. Shakerag cannot action this person, including this person being unlynchable if Shakerag is voting him.
I don't have any non-auto actions. And yes, if I lose that auto, I die.
Okay, you got me. I am a Survivor.
I am The Player of BYOR 13 to Whom the Rules Do Not Apply. Apparently that means 1) I don't get actual actions 2) I don't care for the normal Town/Mafia alignment rules. I was hoping for some sort of crazy outsider alignment, or a hilarious role that could edit posts and talk at night and such hilarity, but alas.
I have no actions to claim because I have no non-auto actions.
WIch is a damn shame, since i wanted to use my copper-ingWhat ability is this?
Two, a wasted lynch is a wasted lynch. I don't see why pushing it forward saves us anything.I disagree. It's better to waste a lynch earlier in the game, where we know less and we've got a bigger margin between scum and town.
Yes? I'm unsure if someone inspected me yet though. The last sentence I've no idea of.
Tiruin: From the pieces I've read of the game, you were a miller, then lost it to Persus, who confirmed it by dying and flipping town. You were also inspected at some point. Is this right?
Oh huh.I think if my target freeaction failed it still go off at random.
So...he picks someone, yet it goes off randomly? Strange.
Still a bit confused on how you can control others' auto's Toaster, but just preparing for prelims here. Will get a nice read over the weekend.
(Auto) Picturesque: You can create any role and alignment. Any actions that take role, action, or alignment information will use that. This can be changed at any time. Note: This will take everything word for word.
The unfortunate part of us lynching him if he ever turns out to be unhelpful? We'll need to do it twice, and even then we won't have killed a scum. If he chooses to do so, he can give the scum two nights of complete immunity to town, in which they may do as they wish. This would be really bad, and we need to lower the chances of it happening. To those saying 'what if scum then nightkill him?'- in that case, he couldn't lock down scum anyway and all we've lost is a third party aka somebody who has no motive to help town win.But why would he? It'd be painting a giant target on his chest in a game with a lot of unpredictable shenanigans.
I don't remember the context forthe fancy stuff. I don't really intend to go reread what i wrote when i was mad as hell, not good for my soul . My reasoning for the vote will follow in the other posts.Fair enough, though this is in line with my interpretation that you seemed to be panicking at this whole situation.
Because as a scum they should be immune by default. If so, they can continue NKilling while inconveniencing town. The combo also falls since they can simply kill NQH/Toaster and get rid of it. Then again, they can let it go,since it impact town and not themselvesWhat? Why would scum be immune to it by default? It sounds like you're saying that this combo shouldn't affect scum at all and is therefore reasonable but harmful as a town ability.
If it's a town ability, then scum is affected by it, and NQH/Toaster can lockdown. Scum only chance lay in lynching NQT/Toaster, which is unlikely, since he can just come out if his head is on the chopping block.
Because Toaster is a 3rd party, not town. Shit like that happen.Third parties cause us to give scum 2-3 favorable lynches?
I don,t really understand what you are talkign about here. I didn't speak about a miller in this game.Yeah you have. You're calling Tiruin scum. Tiruin, who had her Miller ability removed by confirmed-town Persus.
i really just hope you're a survivor which TolyK's {Town} & {Neutral} thing is true with.It's because Flabort his behind Toaster, I targeted Toaster, and my action was copied to Flabort as well. The results were mixed though (dammit Wuba :p).
On that note ,TolyK: Why were there 2 reads in your inspect?
Cheeetar:The unfortunate part of us lynching him if he ever turns out to be unhelpful? We'll need to do it twice, and even then we won't have killed a scum. If he chooses to do so, he can give the scum two nights of complete immunity to town, in which they may do as they wish. This would be really bad, and we need to lower the chances of it happening. To those saying 'what if scum then nightkill him?'- in that case, he couldn't lock down scum anyway and all we've lost is a third party aka somebody who has no motive to help town win.But why would he? It'd be painting a giant target on his chest in a game with a lot of unpredictable shenanigans.
And I'd like to reiterate that "cannot stop all NKs forever" is not the same as "useless." Again, recall the counter to Goddess- scum revives, ability steals, and a 50% town kill magnet. That didn't mean the ability was worthless or didn't affect scum, it just meant it had a counter.
Err, on that note--Persus targeted an auto (which I rambled about back in my ..big post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5607617;topicseen#msg5607617) back there?) :PI don,t really understand what you are talkign about here. I didn't speak about a miller in this game.Yeah you have. You're calling Tiruin scum. Tiruin, who had her Miller ability removed by confirmed-town Persus.
You're saying a Miller is scum.
Yeah, I'm not the SK. :vi really just hope you're a survivor which TolyK's {Town} & {Neutral} thing is true with.It's because Flabort his behind Toaster, I targeted Toaster, and my action was copied to Flabort as well. The results were mixed though (dammit Wuba :p).
On that note ,TolyK: Why were there 2 reads in your inspect?
Also, @miller removal, she could still be the SK, or scum who lied about losing it to get confirmed somehow. The second is unlikely at best, but still possible.
Does anyone want anyone else inspected? I'll take your opinions into consideration.
Does anyone want anyone else inspected? I'll take your opinions into consideration.If MBP's not dead, which I'll not be happy about, confirming him as scum after all or an ability cop could be nice.
No, it's not. I just explained why it's not. He might be able to lock down scum but not the SK. He might be able to lock down all actions save a specific one-shot. He might be able to out someone as lying about their role.And I'd like to reiterate that "cannot stop all NKs forever" is not the same as "useless." Again, recall the counter to Goddess- scum revives, ability steals, and a 50% town kill magnet. That didn't mean the ability was worthless or didn't affect scum, it just meant it had a counter."Cannot stop scum from killing town while at the same time can stop all town from doing anything ever" = useless.
Why would he do it? Because there's something he hasn't told us about his alignment, or because he has a feeling that scum would be able to win within two flawless, uninterrupted nights if he sides with them. We don't need to guess at why he might do it, we need to eliminate the chance of it happening. If this works and Toaster sides with us we have won. Let's do our best to make sure this happens, eh?He's not gonna give up his cushy job as town antiaction field on a hunch. He's probably not even gonna give up his cushy job as town antiaction field on a promise- the same "what if he's hiding something" shenanigans apply to the town at least as much as they do him. I would agree that there's a chance of him betraying and murdering us all, but I would argue that it's a particularly small one.
If scum isn't immune,then why have this ability ? You risk failling your NK, and lose the other actions from ally scum. Again, it's a thing of balance. I guess you could have the person launching it be immune, but then he must do the NK.This is circular logic. "This ability would be worthless on scum, therefore it's a scum ability but they're immune to it."
I'm going with the most likely function of that panic. Disrupting town to give the scum a chance. early onBased on what? You've ignored every question I've raised about it, from a prior example to feasibility concerns, and are relying on circular logic and Tiruin lying in a hyperspecific way to make your version work.
Cheeetar:No, it's not. I just explained why it's not. He might be able to lock down scum but not the SK. He might be able to lock down all actions save a specific one-shot. He might be able to out someone as lying about their role.And I'd like to reiterate that "cannot stop all NKs forever" is not the same as "useless." Again, recall the counter to Goddess- scum revives, ability steals, and a 50% town kill magnet. That didn't mean the ability was worthless or didn't affect scum, it just meant it had a counter."Cannot stop scum from killing town while at the same time can stop all town from doing anything ever" = useless.
"Cannot stop all kills forever" != useless.
Because as a scum they should be immune by default. If so, they can continue NKilling while inconveniencing town. The combo also falls since they can simply kill NQH/Toaster and get rid of it. Then again, they can let it go,since it impact town and not themselves.As a scum tool, it doesn't seem powerful enough to warrant the playercount == 13 restriction, especially since the charade of scum being affected would go away if they did anything publicly visible (like a kill), as NQT/Toaster would simply reverse the current plan and allow everything/remove the ability. And with his regenerating revive, Toaster doesn't need to fear the scum nearly as much, and instead can afford to ingratiate himself to the town.
If it's a town ability, then scum is affected by it, and NQH/Toaster can lockdown. Scum only chance lay in lynching NQT/Toaster, which is unlikely, since he can just come out if his head is on the chopping block.
Yeah... I'm gonna Pardon Toaster. I disagree that killing him would be beneficial to us. So yeah. That's fun. No ties.
Votecount please?
Wait a minute. The last votecount showed Toaster in the lead at three votes. The only two votes since then have been Irony moving from Cheeetar to MBP and Varee moving from not voting to Toaster, so Toaster's winning even harder now.
Cheeetar: What's this about heading toward a tie vote?
Tiruin, what do you plan on doing this night?Action'ing one of my suspects (MBP, Varee...someone someone(?) Nerjin..) as mentioned earlier in the thread. Though knowing that my actions have failed in the last 2 nights, I'm very suspicious as to who is doing it and why.
Yeah... I'm gonna Pardon Toaster. I disagree that killing him would be beneficial to us. So yeah. That's fun. No ties.For posterity, if I die, y'all have to go get Toaster :v This wholly affects my stance on him.
Votecount please?
I'm really tired of the unsubstantiated way you act, TolyK. You didn't fully explain your percentages yesterday, either, and if you are actually suspicious of me, you could have at least stated some reason for it or something. No- you're simply voting me so it's not registered that you haven't been voting today.Oh dear gods yes.
So, i guess the removing of Toasty extras life is out of question now? I'm unsure how to feel about this, since as i've said the longer he stays the stronger he gets, and survivors are NOT town.Either we test the Pardon and it fails (because Pardon!) or we go lynch Toaster--and it works, somehow, by which Nerjin would be under suspect, though given his behavior this game that is doubtful (in my observations).
Mmm, I'll be searching the reason on your pardon on Toaster in the time being but query.
Of all the information gathered today, you based who you'd pardon on how far that [information] goes? Any foresight applied to the formula?
TheWetSheep, Urist Imiknorris, TolyK, Jack A T- None of you are voting: Why?Because I didn't feel confident enough in my knowledge of the situation to put a vote on somebody, and now it doesn't really matter. Varee's last post seems like mafia giving up rather than town, but voting him would put him at L-1.
Varee, by the way.Why?
Tiruin:Consensus dictates Toaster, but the pardon hit, and the majority are piling up for Varee (though my prime target would be MBP >_> in which Varee is less scummy than him [sure, Varee is...has been very lackluster and passive but.. <_< I've got a feeling on him, which is strange.)Varee, by the way.Why?
Irony, if you don't wanna read and understand, fine by me. Because it shows. Try againThis isn't helpful. Play or don't. Sidestepping everything anyone asks or points out to you to repeat your thesis is useless. It's earned you four detractors and zero supporters. Nobody believes you, because your claims are terrible and unsupported.
Actually, don't. I'll save you the hassle. It is OP for Town, so it's not town. Easy enough to understand?
And my effort into detailling was few pages ago.
I'm starting to believe this is a sick joke, i refuse to believe people able to use this site have goldfish level memories.
Tiruin
And your reasons are not subjective? THey are, i voted you, so you kneeerked right back, OMGUS
I'll god damn judge you by your power if those powers are scummy by design
Nerjin
You got a better idea ? Ain't seeing you come with anything. Again, i said id inspect Her to prove my claim, but that all depends on toasty good will.
Instead of protecting a fuckign 3rd party, why don't you try to something else than whiteknighting.
IronyOwl
That's mostly a giant '' If i cry enoguh that his reasoning is bad, maybe someone will believe it''
Tought better of you, Irony.
TiruinDamn the deity then, I believe we can't speak more on this matter if you keep your eyes focused and your lips shut.
And your reasons are not subjective? THey are, i voted you, so you kneeerked right back, OMGUS
I'll god damn judge you by your power if those powers are scummy by design
Now let the avalanche of YOU MEANY start.Yeah...you're not worth that kind of logic, in this scenario.
Keep the OMGUS-ing Tiruin, just reinforces my beliefs.Seems like you had doubts before that, given how it 'reinforces' something?
Wet Sheep, because i stillthink Tiruin is the likeliest scum, and Toaster was basically confirmed lynch before the pardon. It was fine.
IronyOwlNonononono. This shit is what got you into this mess in the first place. It's also what fucked up Cheeetar, as far as I was concerned.
That's mostly a giant '' If i cry enoguh that his reasoning is bad, maybe someone will believe it''
Tought better of you, Irony.
Let's assume there's a kill on Night 3. What then? Do we continue to have Toaster block everybody (most assuredly all town actions unless somebody hasn't claimed something) in the hope that it was 'just a one-shot' or something?One kill instead of two? That's progress. Most likely we'd start unblocking people as they were confirmed, or maybe just keep blocking people we didn't trust.
And how exactly would Toaster be able to show that somebody was lying about their role?
Well everyone does believe it because it's true. Your reasoning isn't very good. Please try again.
IronyI'm glad you asked!
What points?
Because as a scum they should be immune by default. If so, they can continue NKilling while inconveniencing town. The combo also falls since they can simply kill NQH/Toaster and get rid of it. Then again, they can let it go,since it impact town and not themselvesFor the second part, did you see the role I linked?
If it's a town ability, then scum is affected by it, and NQH/Toaster can lockdown. Scum only chance lay in lynching NQT/Toaster, which is unlikely, since he can just come out if his head is on the chopping block.
Do you have an explanation for why that could be perfectly balanced but this couldn't, beyond what you've said above about it not affecting scum in the first place?
And in the same vein, what about the severe targeting restriction countered by a town auto ability?
Finally, why would it be alright if scum got to use the combo but not alright if town did?
Because Toaster is a 3rd party, not town. Shit like that happen.Third parties cause us to give scum 2-3 favorable lynches?
I don,t really understand what you are talkign about here. I didn't speak about a miller in this game.Yeah you have. You're calling Tiruin scum. Tiruin, who had her Miller ability removed by confirmed-town Persus.
You're saying a Miller is scum.
If scum isn't immune,then why have this ability ? You risk failling your NK, and lose the other actions from ally scum. Again, it's a thing of balance. I guess you could have the person launching it be immune, but then he must do the NK.This is circular logic. "This ability would be worthless on scum, therefore it's a scum ability but they're immune to it."
I'm going with the most likely function of that panic. Disrupting town to give the scum a chance. early onBased on what? You've ignored every question I've raised about it, from a prior example to feasibility concerns, and are relying on circular logic and Tiruin lying in a hyperspecific way to make your version work.
I don't think you actually think Tiriun's scum. I think you're terrified/enraged at the combo because it's ruining your wincon.
Only thing am worry about Toaster is that he might start snowballing as he can get another power each night as long as he keep the block up or i die as I think my auto will go to him if idie right?
Before somebody hammers Varee- please give him some time to detail his night actions so far (and maybe final reads on people.) I don't see any danger of him evading lynch, so give him some time?
TiruinNo, I got it plain and frank (sans the expletives, which were uselessly sprinkled everywhere :I).
Maybe you missed the pages and pages of me saying the same stuff again and again, apparently vainly hoping someone would catch on.
God damn...Wait did you just hammer? o_O
Did I seriously read through ANOTHER three pages of fruitless back-and-forth about the same singular point that the last tunneling incident was about?
So much active lurking and deflection going on. That said, Toaster cannot be lynched. I'm comfortable with Varee at L-1.
Unvote Cheetar
Vote Varee
HoS MBP
Nerjin for protecting a known 3rd party. Rest would depend on how Varee flips. Town i'd check amongst the voters for a mafia bus....Yeah. My assumptions on you are being solidified that your reads or perceptions are...maligned by previous bias.
All teh good peopleare already playign the ngiht gameWut.
We are
LEFT BEHIND
No, Varee's at L-1.Ah, thanks.
OMGUS stands for "Oh My God, You Suck (for voting for me)!". it is sometimes used as a shorthand to indicate that you are voting for someone primarily because they voted for you.
Why not? The day was technically over by that point.No, Varee's at L-1.Ah, thanks.
I'll not leave this at L-1 though. Any other discussion? Unvote. MBP
Day ends Monday 9 PMish CST (Approximately 3 hours from this post.)Edit out posts, right?
Varee
Town
Bob the Builder Theme Song
Bob the Builder… You get it.
[REDACTED]
(Night) Can We Fix [target]?: Yes you can! You protect the target, stopping all kills against them.
(1-Shot, Night) No You Can’t [target]: You kill the target. The target is unable to be revived or protected.
Tiruin: Since I don't think you understood what the hell I was talking about when I asked the first time, why did you move your vote off Varee (presumably to avoid someone hammering) when the day was basically over anyway?I...err, same reasons as before--however I didn't know day was over at the time. >_<
AND Toasties death means either scum or Sk are immune to panic, which bode well for my theory.No Vig in your solution?
Tiruin, what did you do this night, given you were immune to yourself?I either targeted Nerjin or IronyOwl, because it was a conditional based on the # of players and I'm unsure if it holds on the current # of players in the cycle (or was it phase? The term for a whole Day) or the current # of players at the current time the action is used.
Unlikely for town to have 2 night kills, and Varee had one. MAY happen but don't bet anything on it.TolyK has a kill. Any comment on that.
Based on that... Silthuri for now, though not necessary my final vote.
Based on that... Silthuri for now, though not necessary my final vote.
Based on what exactly? "That" is very vague.
I got Varee's one-shot kill.O_o
Well my ability check failed, so that's not coming into account.
Unlikely for town to have 2 night kills
I got Varee's one-shot kill.
Will try to get in another post later today containing reads.Please provide this post you promised.
Varee said he lost a one-shot kill, and I said that I got it, and Jack said that he actioned to transfer an action from Varee to Tiruin but it ended up with me. Please note that if I had killed Toaster he wouldn't have revived.I got Varee's one-shot kill.O_o
How did that happen?
TolyK:That I don't know. Probably because it's part of his initial role, while added actions are thrown away (since I recall someone (Varee?) wondering why someone who flipped didn't have an ability).I got Varee's one-shot kill.
If you got his kill, why does he still have it?
Are we go for mass claim time?No mass claim yet, too many people and too little information, imo.
TolyK: Why are you reserving your investigation results? You have the ability to back up what you're saying- why is it that you're again just asking us to trust you at your word?
Tiruin, what did you do this night, given you were immune to yourself?I either targeted Nerjin or IronyOwl, because it was a conditional based on the # of players and I'm unsure if it holds on the current # of players in the cycle (or was it phase? The term for a whole Day) or the current # of players at the current time the action is used.
Well I don't really have a night action to take so... Yeah. I just sorta sat around and updated my DnD games.Err, knowing my action, my target won't know they would get anything unless...they'd know ._.
As forTiruin, what did you do this night, given you were immune to yourself?I either targeted Nerjin or IronyOwl, because it was a conditional based on the # of players and I'm unsure if it holds on the current # of players in the cycle (or was it phase? The term for a whole Day) or the current # of players at the current time the action is used.
I see. Well you must have targeted Irony because I didn't get anything.
Oop :xVaree said he lost a one-shot kill, and I said that I got it, and Jack said that he actioned to transfer an action from Varee to Tiruin but it ended up with me. Please note that if I had killed Toaster he wouldn't have revived.I got Varee's one-shot kill.O_o
How did that happen?
I'd FoS you or anything at the moment but given that it's exam time and my brain is x_x, I'll be frank here.Are we go for mass claim time?No mass claim yet, too many people and too little information, imo.
TolyK: Why are you reserving your investigation results? You have the ability to back up what you're saying- why is it that you're again just asking us to trust you at your word?
I'm not asking to trust my word this time - I'm trying to catch a liar. That's why I want to know who did what this night. I already said that I'll reveal it after that (I think I did? Damn midnight).
The sooner everyone claims the sooner I can say who I inspected.Is it because you need to know what people are to fabricate an inspect result?
Tiruin: Does your panic ability explicitly say it affects everyone?Everyone else but me, paraphrased. Yep.
What did you do @N3, puppet?
Why did you pick those people for your action?
What did everyone else try to do?Your actions are starting to strike me as cagey, scummy bullshit. This had better be an amazing power/role.
The sooner everyone claims the sooner I can say who I inspected.
Based on the voting and my gut, possibly more.So... you're going by MBP's theory incriminating the majority of the players (excluding himself, of course)? And are you saying you possibly inspected me at one point? If you did, I ask that you share your results before I claim.
What did everyone else try to do?Last night, I twiddled my thumbs. My only night action is a one-shot I've yet to use, meaning I've never taken a night action in this entire game.
Silthuri:Will try to get in another post later today containing reads.Please provide this post you promised.
Toaster: Somebody tried to kill you. Do you think it was more likely it was town, third party, or scum? Are you worried that you might be targeted again tonight, fatally?
Based on that... Silthuri for now, though not necessary my final vote.
Discussion piece, people voting each lynchee for the first 3 day. I'm not posting Flabort vote-ato, and 1st day was pre-empted.
Day 1 - Jack A T, TolyK,Shakerag, Cheeetar,
Day 2 - Cheeetar, Nerjin, Persus13, Scripten, Jack A T, Imp, Silthuri, 4maskwolf,notquitethere,
Day 3 - Toaster, Silthuri, Nerjin, Cheeetar, Scripten
Slashed are dead, probably missed 1-2 of those there due to name changes, feel free to modify
Do not claim your roles ffs, there's enough to check anyways.So massclaiming is bad...why?
No more claiming, dammit. I asked only for N3 actions. -.-So you demanded everyone inform you of their N3 actions on the off chance that unblocked scum who had redirected you might panic and admit to it.
Whatever.
Jack AT is Town and !none'd/failed.
What I was hoping for was someone claiming a randomize, redirect or the like on me so that I could be certain as to my inspection results. At least I can be more sure that who claimed is not scum (in personal reads).
I have a one-shot kill, I can now check role name/ability claims, and I can randomize (that turns into a redirect with Toaster's help.
Jack, as I understand, can move abilities from one person to another, which can be very useful.
Do not claim your roles ffs, there's enough to check anyways.
MBP: Your entire attack on Tiruin, as you clarified it (dependent on the combo), seems to be built on an odd set of assumptions. Why are you assuming that scum doesn't just have some sort of unstoppability powers or something else that counters the combo? Why are you assuming that the panic is what's in scum hands, not just a way around the panic? Are there not many ways for Wuba to balance the relevant set of powers, no matter whose hands those powers are in (particularly in a game like this, where powers are rapidly flying from player to player and town powers can quickly become scum powers)?MBP: Please answer this stuff.
Jack A T- None of you are voting: Why?Cheeetar: I was busy and confused, as already stated.
Jack A T: As far as I can tell, the only players you've indicated any real suspicion of are either the inactive (NQT/TolyK D2, Varee today) or easy targets (both Cheeetar and flabort D2First, is it correct to say that your use of "inactive" here has little to do with amount of activity, and much to do with the quality of the activity shown? That's the only way I see your statement making sense.
[impressive how you take both sides simultaneously]Raise your standards. The ability to see issues on multiple "sides" and note them publicly should not be, in itself, all that impressive.
The rest you just poke at a little (if at all) and answer questions/discuss the setup. The closest you get to actually hunting is when you accused Imp of doing the same thing you are: providing lots of words with little aggression.Considering that you consider me to have taken aggressive action against six players (seven if you include Nerjin) out of the 15 non-me living players D2 and on, this "little aggression" thing and insinuation that I attack very few players is not exactly as strong as you seem to think it is. This part of your attack is particularly unconvincing when it has already become clear that you either haven't been looking at my posts in much detail or have been omitting aggressive acts you don't want to mention for whatever reason.
Notably, you seem to be deliberately avoiding the stronger players (except when Cheeetar was looking like an easy lynch due to his quickhammer).And who are you specifically referring to here? And why are you turning a person whose attackers were already strongly dissipating by the time of my first post D2 into someone who looked like an easy lynch at the time? And when did Imp become a weaker player?
So, who do you suspect? What are your reads?I'll do a solid reads post and examination tomorrow, with a focus on the TolyK and MBP matters and the pushes against them. Quick thoughts now:
Why are you only going after easy targets like some sort of opportunistic scum?Cannot answer: invalid premise.
Alright. Less busy.Reasons for inspecting you:
N3 I tried to use my transfer power to make TheWetSheep (see my issues with Imp) hand a power to Tiruin. This failed: panic.
TolyK: You continue to leave much unexplained. Would you be so kind as to explain why you decided to inspect me? In addition, what is that analysis of Silthuri? In addition, why have you decided to claim your role at this point, sort of outside of a massclaim?
Here's a strange thought: TolyK has claimed investigator- without his investigative skills, Toaster locking down the whole town is useless. Why was Toaster targeted with the kill and not TolyK?Ddn't someone else vouch for Toaster before? As in, I remember TolyK's claim being {Town}{Neutral} or something like that but I also...remember someone else?
Now, about a possible plan.Which part do you affect, Toaster? The chance of success of an action or the chance of the power being removed?
Since there was a kill last night, it's entirely possible that there will be another one under lockdown. Also, we've seen that several people already are free of "panicked" in their own way.
Here's a strange thought: TolyK has claimed investigator- without his investigative skills, Toaster locking down the whole town is useless. Why was Toaster targeted with the kill and not TolyK?Ddn't someone else vouch for Toaster before? As in, I remember TolyK's claim being {Town}{Neutral} or something like that but I also...remember someone else?
PFP exams x-x
Cheetar, you are wrong. Tiruin fired the panic, and Toaster is makign it stick. Tiruin is not necessary anymore, it's toaster that make the blocks.
Based on that... Silthuri for now, though not necessary my final vote.
That's based on this post?Discussion piece, people voting each lynchee for the first 3 day. I'm not posting Flabort vote-ato, and 1st day was pre-empted.
Day 1 - Jack A T, TolyK,Shakerag, Cheeetar,
Day 2 - Cheeetar, Nerjin, Persus13, Scripten, Jack A T, Imp, Silthuri, 4maskwolf,notquitethere,
Day 3 - Toaster, Silthuri, Nerjin, Cheeetar, Scripten
Slashed are dead, probably missed 1-2 of those there due to name changes, feel free to modify
Why Silthuri? She was on two of the lynches, but so were Nerjin, Scripten, and Jack A T. Cheeetar was on three.
TolyK:The sooner everyone claims the sooner I can say who I inspected.Is it because you need to know what people are to fabricate an inspect result?
What did you claim your role to be? You have an alignment-inspect and an action inspect?
Reasons for voting Silthuri:Nerjin, Scripten, and Cheeetar are checked or partially confirmed?
- sitting on the last two mislynches (others who did this are either checked or otherwise at least partially confirmed)
TheWetSheep: Why Philanthropy on IronyOwl?Philanthropy because I had no choice, IronyOwl because I didn't have much of a read on anyone and his play seemed pretty solid. I didn't spend a lot of time making the decision because it was going to fail anyway.
Reasons for voting Silthuri:
- sitting on the last two mislynches (others who did this are either checked or otherwise at least partially confirmed)
- not doing anything too noticeable (i.e. staying under the radar and above inactivity)
- my gut
As I've already said twice, no concrete evidence.
TolyK: Answer my questions.As if I'm not answering them?
Yes, that post.Based on that... Silthuri for now, though not necessary my final vote.
That's based on this post?Discussion piece, people voting each lynchee for the first 3 day. I'm not posting Flabort vote-ato, and 1st day was pre-empted.
Day 1 - Jack A T, TolyK,Shakerag, Cheeetar,
Day 2 - Cheeetar, Nerjin, Persus13, Scripten, Jack A T, Imp, Silthuri, 4maskwolf,notquitethere,
Day 3 - Toaster, Silthuri, Nerjin, Cheeetar, Scripten
Slashed are dead, probably missed 1-2 of those there due to name changes, feel free to modify
Why Silthuri? She was on two of the lynches, but so were Nerjin, Scripten, and Jack A T. Cheeetar was on three.
TolyK:[/quote]The sooner everyone claims the sooner I can say who I inspected.Is it because you need to know what people are to fabricate an inspect result?
What did you claim your role to be? You have an alignment-inspect and an action inspect?
No, I am wrong in that count then.Reasons for voting Silthuri:Nerjin, Scripten, and Cheeetar are checked or partially confirmed?
- sitting on the last two mislynches (others who did this are either checked or otherwise at least partially confirmed)
That was intentional, to see if you'd jump to claim something about an investigation-changing action or whatnot.Reasons for voting Silthuri:
- sitting on the last two mislynches (others who did this are either checked or otherwise at least partially confirmed)
- not doing anything too noticeable (i.e. staying under the radar and above inactivity)
- my gut
As I've already said twice, no concrete evidence.
Fair enough. It's just that the way you said it made it seem like you'd inspected me. So where was Nerjin partially confirmed? Is this because of his pardon power? Or is it just that I'm the one the farthest away from any sort of confirmation?
It may be an unblockable neutral as well. Just because they are aligned against what looks to be a survivor role doesn't mean they are aligned against us.
Irony, more or less.Why?
Here's a strange thought: TolyK has claimed investigator- without his investigative skills, Toaster locking down the whole town is useless. Why was Toaster targeted with the kill and not TolyK?It's generally unwise to attempt to read much into nightkills. They're very complex affairs utilizing variables we're unaware of, and therefore difficult to figure out.
Irony, to get as much info out of the night game as possible. Also to keep people who are continuously lying (typically the bad guys) on their toes.And you don't feel screaming EVERYONE TELL ME WHAT YOU DID RIGHT NOW off a sliver-thin chance that ended up yielding nothing was in any way problematic?
I CANNOT wait for that I told you so. It makes me giddy in all the right places.If you knew it all along but nobody believed you, that generally means you were either complete crap at communicating this information, or your information was bad and so you were right on pure luck. Either way, it's not generally something to be proud of.
I CANNOT wait for that I told you so. It makes me giddy in all the right places.While you may have merit in playing WEB's games in the last 3 years; your experience with it...comes from about 3 years ago.
You seem to not believe in Player Principle, huh.It may be an unblockable neutral as well. Just because they are aligned against what looks to be a survivor role doesn't mean they are aligned against us.
If they are not explicitely Town, then they are not to be trusted. Again, nothing prevents them to betray town if it's not in their wincon, and they should do whats best for themselves. Altruism is not something that happens in Mafia
As for you Jack
Giving a complete such a power to a townie while giving Scum a way to bypass is kind of a sucking gift. ''you can sue this but it'll totally suck for everyone but scum'' kind. It's ratehr hard for me to put it in word, it's like a Kaizo trap.
[...]So yeah, no altruism.You should look in the recent BYOR games (or ToonyMan's Love-Themed Mafia)...there are lots of cases where the principles of a player [also altruism] came before their role (ever heard of an SK not even using his kill? That happened while you were gone, and the SK still won :P).
I'd still like an answer here for the orange part :3I CANNOT wait for that I told you so. It makes me giddy in all the right places.While you may have merit in playing WEB's games in the last 3 years; your experience with it...comes from about 3 years ago.
Many things have changed--philosophy, thinking and many other 'common' ideas that I bet are swimming in your head there.
Do you find it efficient for yourself to change your ideas in the situation currently? Like, be more open-minded?
Or don't you see any merit in us telling and commenting on what your case is?
TolyK:No, I didn't think that was problematic. My reasoning?Irony, to get as much info out of the night game as possible. Also to keep people who are continuously lying (typically the bad guys) on their toes.And you don't feel screaming EVERYONE TELL ME WHAT YOU DID RIGHT NOW off a sliver-thin chance that ended up yielding nothing was in any way problematic?
Tell me, why should we leave you unblocked tonight? You're nowhere near confirmed, you were one of three people unblocked the night somebody murdered Toaster, one of which was Toaster while the other's a Miller, and aside from Toaster you've got no inspect information you couldn't have guessed. Add to that you've been shifty and misleading in general, and I'm forced to really wonder how wise it is to leave you running around.- Actually, others claimed to have been able to action this night that were not unblocked... At least two, if I remember.
As for you JackMBP: Alright. Is a read based on action powers seemingly not fitting alignment really a good read in a game where the theme is power shifting? In a game where powers are moving from player to player through multiple mechanisms?
Giving a complete such a power to a townie while giving Scum a way to bypass is kind of a sucking gift. ''you can sue this but it'll totally suck for everyone but scum'' kind. It's ratehr hard for me to put it in word, it's like a Kaizo trap.
Jack, how exactly does your ability-move ability work?TolyK: I target two players. First target has to choose a power to lose, but doesn't know where it is going. Second target gets the selected power, but doesn't know where it came from.
But you didn't talk about your stance regarding a massclaim :ITolyK:No, I didn't think that was problematic. My reasoning?Irony, to get as much info out of the night game as possible. Also to keep people who are continuously lying (typically the bad guys) on their toes.And you don't feel screaming EVERYONE TELL ME WHAT YOU DID RIGHT NOW off a sliver-thin chance that ended up yielding nothing was in any way problematic?
- Technically, all people except me, Toaster and Tiruin should've been blocked, so unblocked people not in the list who didn't claim would look instantly scummy on the off chance that I saw where they went last night.
- I specifically asked people what they did/tried to do last night (specifically, who they targeted).
I did not ask for any more than that - individual role claims, however partial, are not what I wanted.
TolyK: Thank you for confirming Jack A T as town. Why didn't you wait until everybody had claimed their night actions before revealing your brilliant plan? Neither Jack A T or Scripten had said anything about what they did that night.
Cheetar, you are wrong. Tiruin fired the panic, and Toaster is makign it stick. Tiruin is not necessary anymore, it's toaster that make the blocks.
Now, about a possible plan.Which part do you affect, Toaster? The chance of success of an action or the chance of the power being removed?
Since there was a kill last night, it's entirely possible that there will be another one under lockdown. Also, we've seen that several people already are free of "panicked" in their own way.
I actually haven't been able to do much of anything at night. I'm basically a town roleblocker/primer. If I block a person twice, they're primed, and I have a one-shot that kills everyone primed when I set it off. I don't think I have anyone primed, however, since I've been blocked on a number of occasions.
I smell a rat.No. Roleflips flip as the basic form for the role the player has.
Web: Do roleflips show any alterations? If a player lost a power then died, would that power be visible in their roleflip?
Nerjin somehow blew a fuse starting today, dunno why. I've got a pang that he wants to look as usefull as possible. Furthermore, he did protect confirmed 3rd party, (he could be scum with some really weird shit happening, but that's not likely). Toaster dying and rev-ing
A slowcooker town arsonist?
I still stand that Silthuri has been trying to stay under the radar and above the rocky ground.And this is the most suspicious thing you've seen so far? You're not even pressuring her - that vote could hardly be any more passive.
I had an alignment investigation, now I have a role name/ability investigation. The action inspect was a bonus for the last-time use.What do you mean, last time use? Explain, clearly, what results you get from an inspect, and why it changed.
No, I am wrong in that count then.No. Why do you accuse me of chainsawing when you admit that my point is valid? You obviously didn't examine that vote log very hard - did you just go for the first target that caught your fancy?
Also, is Silthuri your scum buddy?
TheWetSheep: In addition to my issues with your predecessor (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5603178#msg5603178), I have issues with your play. Specifically, your TolyK vote. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5631638#msg5631638) Even for a newcomer to a very long game, this is light on content. There isn't a case, and the questions consist of a rhetorical question and a clarification request. Your next few questions to TolyK are a bit better, but you're barely there on him. Considering you've only really looked at TolyK today, there's an issue here.I can't address your issues with Imp, but would you say I'm the lowest on content today? Many people haven't even voted, and TolyK's (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5630358#msg5630358) and Nerjin's (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5633774#msg5633774) votes are similarly low-content and low-pressure. I realize this doesn't mean I'm less guilty of it, but why are you focusing on only me?
What is your case on TolyK?1. Asking for people's actions before claiming, which he would need to do if he was scum fakeclaiming.
TolyK:In italics.I still stand that Silthuri has been trying to stay under the radar and above the rocky ground.And this is the most suspicious thing you've seen so far? You're not even pressuring her - that vote could hardly be any more passive.
I agree that I'm not pressuring. It's currently not my priority, as I would rather do concrete things instead of those based on gut.QuoteI had an alignment investigation, now I have a role name/ability investigation. The action inspect was a bonus for the last-time use.What do you mean, last time use? Explain, clearly, what results you get from an inspect, and why it changed.
I get the alignment. Last night I also could see who the person targeted (for free). Now, instead, I can see what action or role name the person has.QuoteNo, I am wrong in that count then.No. Why do you accuse me of chainsawing when you admit that my point is valid? You obviously didn't examine that vote log very hard - did you just go for the first target that caught your fancy?
Also, is Silthuri your scum buddy?
It was more or less an afterthought. And yes, I more or less did, except I picked a person I didn't know anything about (more or less), looked at the activity and log of that person, try to remember something, and then more or less realize that I indeed know nothing about the l said person, and that is more or less a reason to believe they're staying in the "sweet spot" between active and passive.
It's exactly why I'm not pressing the case - it totally is "not very good at all" due to there being only one point and a gut feeling.
More or less.
3. OMGUS on me after I point it outI'm not the only one, so :p
Scripten: You don't think anybody's primed? Shouldn't you know?
Nerjin, MBP is stubborn...Let it go for this game :SNerjin somehow blew a fuse starting today, dunno why. I've got a pang that he wants to look as usefull as possible. Furthermore, he did protect confirmed 3rd party, (he could be scum with some really weird shit happening, but that's not likely). Toaster dying and rev-ing
I swear I want to beat you to death with a god damned golf trophy. Do you not pay attention to other people's posts? I explained why I did it. I felt Varee was scum and that Toaster was safer to keep around. As for why I'm blowing up it's because you're a god damned moron who doesn't listen when other people are talking. You categorize people in two groups: "Listened to my stupid bull shit" and "Didn't listen to it so they're wrong."
Also, Tiruin:. . . ???Quote3. OMGUS on me after I point it outI'm not the only one, so :p
My blocks are limited to two per night. I can only, at most, prime one person per night. So far, I don't believe anyone is primed.So...you claim (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5635999#msg5635999) without stating who you targeted, for some reason?
My blocks are limited to two per night. I can only, at most, prime one person per night. So far, I don't believe anyone is primed.So...you claim (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5635999#msg5635999) without stating who you targeted, for some reason?
Scripten. Poke at thee. :I Why the incompleteness?
*points at word OMGUS and then points at the vote list*Also, Tiruin:. . . ???Quote3. OMGUS on me after I point it outI'm not the only one, so :p
What is this pointing at?
TolyK: You've lost your alignment inspection (?)- does this mean that the whole 'have Toaster lock down everyone then slowly reveal everybody's alignments one at a time' plan is kinda screwed now? In this case: Does everyone think we should have Toaster remove the panic?Yes, I have. I think it was bound to fail at some point due to people being free on their own terms. :p
...?*points at word OMGUS and then points at the vote list*Also, Tiruin:. . . ???Quote3. OMGUS on me after I point it outI'm not the only one, so :p
What is this pointing at?
You lost it wherenow?TolyK: You've lost your alignment inspection (?)- does this mean that the whole 'have Toaster lock down everyone then slowly reveal everybody's alignments one at a time' plan is kinda screwed now? In this case: Does everyone think we should have Toaster remove the panic?Yes, I have. I think it was bound to fail at some point due to people being free on their own terms. :p
I can still provide useful information (checking claims), though. And I'd love it if Toaster removed it from everyone.
Also, Jack's move-around-ability ability could be useful in deactivating potential threats.
We could effectively have ~1.7 lynches per day with such a setup.@_@
So...may I ask your list of suspects? How effective was your picklist? Did any of such abilities fail early on and was it specific?My blocks are limited to two per night. I can only, at most, prime one person per night. So far, I don't believe anyone is primed.So...you claim (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5635999#msg5635999) without stating who you targeted, for some reason?
Scripten. Poke at thee. :I Why the incompleteness?
Honestly? Because I accidentally lost my forum messages. For the past two nights, I blocked Jack A T and Persus13. In the first night, IIRC, I blocked Toaster and Flabort. I'm pretty sure most of my attempts have failed. (Obviously, Persus13 failed because he was night killed. Prior to that, I'd been slightly suspicious of him.)
To you pointing out my incorrect use of the term in a recent game. ;)...?*points at word OMGUS and then points at the vote list*Also, Tiruin:. . . ???Quote3. OMGUS on me after I point it outI'm not the only one, so :p
What is this pointing at?
This is referring to when, and to what in particular?
Numbers!You lost it wherenow?TolyK: You've lost your alignment inspection (?)- does this mean that the whole 'have Toaster lock down everyone then slowly reveal everybody's alignments one at a time' plan is kinda screwed now? In this case: Does everyone think we should have Toaster remove the panic?Yes, I have. I think it was bound to fail at some point due to people being free on their own terms. :p
I can still provide useful information (checking claims), though. And I'd love it if Toaster removed it from everyone.
Also, Jack's move-around-ability ability could be useful in deactivating potential threats.We could effectively have ~1.7 lynches per day with such a setup.@_@
Let's not go that far with the numbers.
['sup]Oh yes, let's kill half a person now and then kill the other third later on...[/'sup]
So...may I ask your list of suspects? How effective was your picklist? Did any of such abilities fail early on and was it specific?My blocks are limited to two per night. I can only, at most, prime one person per night. So far, I don't believe anyone is primed.So...you claim (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5635999#msg5635999) without stating who you targeted, for some reason?
Scripten. Poke at thee. :I Why the incompleteness?
Honestly? Because I accidentally lost my forum messages. For the past two nights, I blocked Jack A T and Persus13. In the first night, IIRC, I blocked Toaster and Flabort. I'm pretty sure most of my attempts have failed. (Obviously, Persus13 failed because he was night killed. Prior to that, I'd been slightly suspicious of him.)
Nerjin: Can you pardon yourself?I think he said no, when asked D2.
I assure you that I will not use this ability unless I find it absolutely necessary. If the town wishes it, I can prevent all lynches [though I’d prefer not to] and if town wishes I can simply not issue pardons. I leave it up to town to decide. I consider this ability no longer mine. But towns.
Wuba, is an SK or mafioso able to lose their ability to kill someone? I.e. by it being stolen, by it being taken out by another ability (such as the one Tiruin claimed, Filler Ability).Everything is possible. A Mafiakill cannot be directly stolen by abilities that target actions, since the Mafiakill is a group ability. If you want a more specific answer, please be more specific.
Everything is possible. A Mafiakill cannot be directly stolen by abilities that target actions, since the Mafiakill is a group ability. If you want a more specific answer, please be more specific.
Anyone: Has there ever been a town arsonist before? Because I'm trying to wrap my head around it. The long-term planning required for an arsonist to be effective seems to be directly contradictory to the adaptability required by a townie.I remember vaguely that you played an arsonist role before...
TolyK: Why would you mistake the owner of the Filler Ability as yourself?Because I was the initial owner.
Anyone: Has there ever been a town arsonist before? Because I'm trying to wrap my head around it. The long-term planning required for an arsonist to be effective seems to be directly contradictory to the adaptability required by a townie.
Scripten: Why did you block who you did?
Anyone: Has there ever been a town arsonist before? Because I'm trying to wrap my head around it. The long-term planning required for an arsonist to be effective seems to be directly contradictory to the adaptability required by a townie.
That was BYOR9, where I was the SK and you were my ally.Anyone: Has there ever been a town arsonist before? Because I'm trying to wrap my head around it. The long-term planning required for an arsonist to be effective seems to be directly contradictory to the adaptability required by a townie.I remember vaguely that you played an arsonist role before...
...
Awkwardly, I've to ask 'were you town' then? ._.
Urist Imiknorris: You've made an interesting move. Interesting in that it gives me a lot of points I can use to learn more about you. Let's look at your post.On the first point, you are correct. Lots of talk, little actual hunting.Jack A T: As far as I can tell, the only players you've indicated any real suspicion of are either the inactive (NQT/TolyK D2, Varee today) or easy targets (both Cheeetar and flabort D2First, is it correct to say that your use of "inactive" here has little to do with amount of activity, and much to do with the quality of the activity shown? That's the only way I see your statement making sense.
Second, I find the most interesting parts of your assertions here are not what you chose to include, but what you omitted. For instance, this FoS of Nerjin (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5574263#msg5574263) alongside my TolyK vote and case. Now, I assume that most players making cases based on records of suspicion would carefully examine, among other things, voting records. You should have found this easily. This leads me to believe that either you made your case without careful examination of the evidence, or you chose to leave this out. Please explain this omission.
Of more importance is your choice to leave my day 1 activities out completely. What led you to believe that inclusion of my Day 1 activities, including a major part of my record of votes and suspicions (particularly the first major Flabort vote), would not be of value to your case?
I was reading your FoSes in that post as actual FoSes instead of merely things that caught your eye.[impressive how you take both sides simultaneously]Raise your standards. The ability to see issues on multiple "sides" and note them publicly should not be, in itself, all that impressive.
Your framing of this particular issue is interesting, though. What makes you view Cheeetar and Flabort as the two sides of the conflict? What makes them "both," as in all, of the sides? What is it that is scummy about a willingness to critically examine "both sides" of an issue? Finally, why are you stretching a statement of intent to examine Cheeetar for having caught my eye (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5572557#msg5572557) while suspecting flabort into a solid taking of "both sides" in the conflict?
It hardly counts as an attack when you back down almost immediately, as you've done a rather large portion of the time.The rest you just poke at a little (if at all) and answer questions/discuss the setup. The closest you get to actually hunting is when you accused Imp of doing the same thing you are: providing lots of words with little aggression.Considering that you consider me to have taken aggressive action against six players (seven if you include Nerjin) out of the 15 non-me living players D2 and on, this "little aggression" thing and insinuation that I attack very few players is not exactly as strong as you seem to think it is. This part of your attack is particularly unconvincing when it has already become clear that you either haven't been looking at my posts in much detail or have been omitting aggressive acts you don't want to mention for whatever reason.
But this part does make your goal in your accusation clear. You want to flip part of my attack on Imp around, and put reaching my Imp conclusion about me above reaching an evidence-based conclusion. Why did you prioritize flipping the attack on Imp around over making a good case?False.
a) I'm specifically referring to Irony and Toaster, whom you've had very little interaction with. Toaster is somewhat understandable after his third-party reveal, but what is your read on Irony, exactly?Notably, you seem to be deliberately avoiding the stronger players (except when Cheeetar was looking like an easy lynch due to his quickhammer).And who are you specifically referring to here? And why are you turning a person whose attackers were already strongly dissipating by the time of my first post D2 into someone who looked like an easy lynch at the time? And when did Imp become a weaker player?
Cheeetar: You've been rather involved with Nerjin's pardon ever since he tried to pardon Shakerag. Indeed, your first action D2 was to vote him over it, indicating you felt it more important than flabort's multivoting shenanigans and set-up attempt. What is your aim in such interest?
Scripten: What I'm gathering of your claimed actions is:
N1 blocked Toaster and flabort
N2 blocked Persus
N3 blocked Jack
If you can target multiple people, why did you only do so N1?
He said Why.Scripten: What I'm gathering of your claimed actions is:
N1 blocked Toaster and flabort
N2 blocked Persus
N3 blocked Jack
If you can target multiple people, why did you only do so N1?
Two blocks equal a prime. I can block the same person twice in one night. Currently, I do not believe anyone is primed.
You don't think you can target him? You don't know which roleblock failed? Do you specifically know which one failed as to whom?So...may I ask your list of suspects? How effective was your picklist? Did any of such abilities fail early on and was it specific?My blocks are limited to two per night. I can only, at most, prime one person per night. So far, I don't believe anyone is primed.So...you claim (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5635999#msg5635999) without stating who you targeted, for some reason?
Scripten. Poke at thee. :I Why the incompleteness?
Honestly? Because I accidentally lost my forum messages. For the past two nights, I blocked Jack A T and Persus13. In the first night, IIRC, I blocked Toaster and Flabort. I'm pretty sure most of my attempts have failed. (Obviously, Persus13 failed because he was night killed. Prior to that, I'd been slightly suspicious of him.)
For right now? I'm not sure. I'm suspicious of Cheetar and MBP, but those are merely gut feelings base don playstyle. I was pretty damn convinced Flabort was scum, and Varee was... well, you know how he plays. I had suspected P13, but, as you saw, he was NK'd, so my ability didn't really do anything. My picklist hasn't been very good, I'll be honest. I think I targeted Toaster once and he's 3rd party, but now I don't think I CAN target him. Or I was blocked.
And yeah, I had abilities fail every night, but I do not know which. My night game needs some work, I think. I feel like I'm falling behind in this game and I'm not sure where to turn my suspicions.
He said Why.
That doesn't answer Why (or What or How or...)
You don't think you can target him? You don't know which roleblock failed? Do you specifically know which one failed as to whom?
Nerjin: How was Varee 'more of a threat' to town? What specific fears did you have of him- more so than of a constantly reviving third party who can block every action?
TolyK: You've lost your alignment inspection (?)- does this mean that the whole 'have Toaster lock down everyone then slowly reveal everybody's alignments one at a time' plan is kinda screwed now? In this case: Does everyone think we should have Toaster remove the panic?Yes, I have. I think it was bound to fail at some point due to people being free on their own terms. :p
I can still provide useful information (checking claims), though. And I'd love it if Toaster removed it from everyone.
Also, Jack's move-around-ability ability could be useful in deactivating potential threats.
If the only case you can make is a bad one, either don't make it at all or put some pressure on the person and try to make them crack.TolyK:In italics.I still stand that Silthuri has been trying to stay under the radar and above the rocky ground.And this is the most suspicious thing you've seen so far? You're not even pressuring her - that vote could hardly be any more passive.
I agree that I'm not pressuring. It's currently not my priority, as I would rather do concrete things instead of those based on gut.QuoteI had an alignment investigation, now I have a role name/ability investigation. The action inspect was a bonus for the last-time use.What do you mean, last time use? Explain, clearly, what results you get from an inspect, and why it changed.
I get the alignment. Last night I also could see who the person targeted (for free). Now, instead, I can see what action or role name the person has.QuoteNo, I am wrong in that count then.No. Why do you accuse me of chainsawing when you admit that my point is valid? You obviously didn't examine that vote log very hard - did you just go for the first target that caught your fancy?
Also, is Silthuri your scum buddy?
It was more or less an afterthought. And yes, I more or less did, except I picked a person I didn't know anything about (more or less), looked at the activity and log of that person, try to remember something, and then more or less realize that I indeed know nothing about the l said person, and that is more or less a reason to believe they're staying in the "sweet spot" between active and passive.
It's exactly why I'm not pressing the case - it totally is "not very good at all" due to there being only one point and a gut feeling.
More or less.
In my opinion, any time you accuse somebody because they accused you, it's an OMGUS. It doesn't have to be accompanied by a vote.*points at word OMGUS and then points at the vote list*Also, Tiruin:. . . ???Quote3. OMGUS on me after I point it outI'm not the only one, so :p
What is this pointing at?
You should be able to keep things like that straight - unless you're getting confused with your fakeclaims.TolyK: Why would you mistake the owner of the Filler Ability as yourself?Because I was the initial owner.
Scripten: Why are you going around priming people when you have very little information on them? I'm assuming you can't unprime - if you prime somebody, killing them will be unavoidable if you decide to kill anybody at all. Your behaviour(and role) seem more like SK than town to me.
Ok, back from my superb weekend of job finding and college stuff. Can't stay for tonight, but i will post something tommorow evening. Sorry for that
Scum is more of a threat than a highly powered third party who could ally with the scum? Enough so that you go against towns wishes?Scum... Is more of a threat than survivor. Especially when we had agreed on a plan, or at least part of us did and the others are unwillingly cooperating at any rate. :p
TolyK: You've lost your alignment inspection (?)- does this mean that the whole 'have Toaster lock down everyone then slowly reveal everybody's alignments one at a time' plan is kinda screwed now? In this case: Does everyone think we should have Toaster remove the panic?Yes, I have. I think it was bound to fail at some point due to people being free on their own terms. :p
I can still provide useful information (checking claims), though. And I'd love it if Toaster removed it from everyone.
Also, Jack's move-around-ability ability could be useful in deactivating potential threats.
Toaster, re this quote: Do you plan on continuing to try to lockdown everyone, or are you going to remove the panic tonight?
Who is confirmed town? By my count, nobody. Tiruin is extremely close, but third party is remotely possible. TolyK I don't see any proof of confirmation at all. Remember that "confirmed" is a very strong word in Mafia.Yeah, this is an issue. Jack is confirmed assuming TolyK is telling the truth, I believe, which is... not great, but something.
pfp I'm sick*more pats*
Idea: Unlock the people who are confirmed town (this probably includes Tiruin, since even if she is the SK she was probably the one who was able to kill you).Tiruin isn't panicking.
Yes. At some point you have to admit that the person claiming a role that looks exactly like an SK role is probably the SK.Scripten: Why are you going around priming people when you have very little information on them? I'm assuming you can't unprime - if you prime somebody, killing them will be unavoidable if you decide to kill anybody at all. Your behaviour(and role) seem more like SK than town to me.
So you're basically judging your vote based on my role?
Scripten:Yes. At some point you have to admit that the person claiming a role that looks exactly like an SK role is probably the SK.Scripten: Why are you going around priming people when you have very little information on them? I'm assuming you can't unprime - if you prime somebody, killing them will be unavoidable if you decide to kill anybody at all. Your behaviour(and role) seem more like SK than town to me.
So you're basically judging your vote based on my role?
Who is confirmed town? By my count, nobody. Tiruin is extremely close, but third party is remotely possible. TolyK I don't see any proof of confirmation at all. Remember that "confirmed" is a very strong word in Mafia.
Scripten: You never explained why you were intending to prime people, if you were intending to prime people.
Had less time to read and post than i tought. so, Extend. I need it.Why Nerjin?Who is confirmed town? By my count, nobody. Tiruin is extremely close, but third party is remotely possible. TolyK I don't see any proof of confirmation at all. Remember that "confirmed" is a very strong word in Mafia.
Nobody is confirmed town. This is not paranormal. The only person you can be sure is town is yourself when you get your role from wubbah. And even then. Saying that anybody is confirmed should be punishable. Suggesting it too.
Furthermore, My top 3 are Tiruin, Scipten, and Nerjin. Also, Toaster.
Basically. Tiruin i'm pretty sure is either scum or 3rd party. Don't believe me, i don't care.
Scripten poisoner, i can't understand how that would work. I've got strong SK viibes from this. You got a town ability that you can use to prime someone, and since he got 2 he can just do 1 kill a night or hell, prime then go on a rampage. That's like an extra strength arsonist.
Nerjin did protect a known third party against town wishes. Maybe mistake maybe bad will, still something you shouldn't do.
And I voted toaster since i'm unsure amongst the other 3, and a 3rd party lynch is better than a mislynch in my book. No offense Toasty.
Also Toaster, If you want to keep the panic rolling you can, but if they killed you yesterday i assume they would be capable tonight too. Wouldn't like to be in your shoes.
What's the reason for the orange part being there?Scripten: You never explained why you were intending to prime people, if you were intending to prime people.
Since I'm town, I can use my ability in a lylo situation to leave us with only confirmed townies, if I play my cards right. (So far I haven't, it seems.) I haven't been relying on my powers alone to play the game. Exactly what am I expected to do to not be scumread for the ability set the mod gave me? If you feel that my role is too dangerous to keep around, then lynch me. I'll still win with the town. I'm defending myself only because a mislynch/nolynch would hurt the town.
I will admit, however, that having to defend my role is frustrating when I didn't design it myself.
Fine for unvoting MBP. Very glad to see you have some actual reads and scumhunting. Perhaps there are some questions you'd like to ask those people you view as suspicious so you can be more sure of their alignment?How do you see MBP scumhunting?
What's the reason for the orange part being there?
On 'why Nerjin' being "Why exactly does that make him a suspect? His reasons are detailed and outlined before your post, and show why he chose to utilize his Pardon on Toaster--the exact same effect came out anyway in the night as an aside."Had less time to read and post than i tought. so, Extend. I need it.Why Nerjin?Who is confirmed town? By my count, nobody. Tiruin is extremely close, but third party is remotely possible. TolyK I don't see any proof of confirmation at all. Remember that "confirmed" is a very strong word in Mafia.
Nobody is confirmed town. This is not paranormal. The only person you can be sure is town is yourself when you get your role from wubbah. And even then. Saying that anybody is confirmed should be punishable. Suggesting it too.
Furthermore, My top 3 are Tiruin, Scipten, and Nerjin. Also, Toaster.
Basically. Tiruin i'm pretty sure is either scum or 3rd party. Don't believe me, i don't care.
Scripten poisoner, i can't understand how that would work. I've got strong SK viibes from this. You got a town ability that you can use to prime someone, and since he got 2 he can just do 1 kill a night or hell, prime then go on a rampage. That's like an extra strength arsonist.
Nerjin did protect a known third party against town wishes. Maybe mistake maybe bad will, still something you shouldn't do.
And I voted toaster since i'm unsure amongst the other 3, and a 3rd party lynch is better than a mislynch in my book. No offense Toasty.
Also Toaster, If you want to keep the panic rolling you can, but if they killed you yesterday i assume they would be capable tonight too. Wouldn't like to be in your shoes.
Also your top suspects don't include Toaster...yet you vote him. Meaning: Your whole case against me now equals 'Unsure'?
Huh.
I'd be fine with lynching me if that confirms what I said.But you haven't said anything, except that Jack is town.
And you all seem to forget that I confirmed Toaster as survivor and made him talk, which would be extremely unlikely otherwise.What do you mean "otherwise?" How is outing and then controlling a third party not also scum behavior? It even worked! You were one of three people allowed to act last night, well done.
And I voted toaster since i'm unsure amongst the other 3, and a 3rd party lynch is better than a mislynch in my book. No offense Toasty.If you think he's likely to be NK'd anyway, why vote for him? Surely a town mislynch is better than doing scum's first pick for free and letting them spend their kill getting their second choice as well.
Also Toaster, If you want to keep the panic rolling you can, but if they killed you yesterday i assume they would be capable tonight too. Wouldn't like to be in your shoes.
Tiruin: he's actually being suspicious of people (and not all of his reasons are related to their roles.)Pretty close. Tiruin because the block/combo is too strong, Scripten because being an arsonist+ is too strong, Nerjin because he pardoned Toaster.
Irony: I meant that I am a confirmed investigator, not town.Oh. Yeah, unless scumbuddies but that'd probably be overelaborate. Although you are claiming to have now lost your original investigator ability, or something? Could you summarize your claim so far?
Jack is very likely confirmed town, even if I am scum (trying to get his sympathy by putting him as town :p).
Extension to finalize crap would be good. Please extend.I'm counting... seven extension votes, I think? I think we got it.
N1: Inspect Toaster, got "town" "neutral" (action happened twice)Do you know why it fired twice? Do you mean it hit him twice and delivered a different result each time? That sounds less like "third party" and more like "shenanigans," if so.
N3: Inspect Jack, got town. Inspect turned into ability-or-rolename cop (possible power or own role gag).So you don't understand why your ability was altered? Have you tried confirming with wuba?
Everything is possible.Everything is possible. A Mafiakill cannot be directly stolen by abilities that target actions, since the Mafiakill is a group ability. If you want a more specific answer, please be more specific.
Would it be possible to remove the mafia kill from play completely with the use of an ability (without killing the mafia members)?
For nights 1 and 2, I tried to choose people who looked fairly scummy or anti-town. Flabort and Toaster fit the bill, and I was suspicious enough of P13 to aim at him. Last night, I didn't think my ability would work at all (I was told that one or both of my primes failed, so I'm fairly certain it didn't work.) so I chose a player that I have a null read on atm.You tried to prime Jack N3 because you had a null read on him? Why on earth would a townie try to prime someone they had a null read on, as opposed to someone they had a scum read on?
Scripten:For nights 1 and 2, I tried to choose people who looked fairly scummy or anti-town. Flabort and Toaster fit the bill, and I was suspicious enough of P13 to aim at him. Last night, I didn't think my ability would work at all (I was told that one or both of my primes failed, so I'm fairly certain it didn't work.) so I chose a player that I have a null read on atm.You tried to prime Jack N3 because you had a null read on him? Why on earth would a townie try to prime someone they had a null read on, as opposed to someone they had a scum read on?
You mean people most likely not to by lynched off, so that you could take out the rest of them and be stuck with easier-to-lynch players?
If it happened that you had primed everyone at LYLO/MYLO, that would be a very great SK (arsonist) win possibility.
Also I find it funny that you claimed your role AFTER I claimed role investigator.
Scripten:
You tried to prime Jack N3 because you had a null read on him? Why on earth would a townie try to prime someone they had a null read on, as opposed to someone they had a scum read on?
I didn't have any significant scumreads like I did the first two nights. I was also nearly sure my abilities would be blocked. They were.
For right now? I'm not sure. I'm suspicious of Cheetar and MBP, but those are merely gut feelings base don playstyle. I was pretty damn convinced Flabort was scum, and Varee was... well, you know how he plays. I had suspected P13, but, as you saw, he was NK'd, so my ability didn't really do anything. My picklist hasn't been very good, I'll be honest. I think I targeted Toaster once and he's 3rd party, but now I don't think I CAN target him. Or I was blocked.(emphasis mine)
And yeah, I had abilities fail every night, but I do not know which. My night game needs some work, I think. I feel like I'm falling behind in this game and I'm not sure where to turn my suspicions.
"I thought my action wouldn't go through so I did it" is not a very good excuse- instead imagine that a claimed vigilante used a kill on somebody for spurious reasons (priming people is a time-delayed kill assuming you survive to activate your 1 shot) and their excuse was "I thought I'd be blocked." Would that fly with you?
Urist Imiknoriss: I foresee Jack being a more viable endgame player. My aim was to, if my actions did not fail, have my powers act as insurance later in the game.As opposed to, if your actions did not fail, priming a suspect of yours.
Urist Imiknoriss: I foresee Jack being a more viable endgame player. My aim was to, if my actions did not fail, have my powers act as insurance later in the game.As opposed to, if your actions did not fail, priming a suspect of yours.
Jack:TheWetSheep: Heh. You have to understand that I placed my vote not just because of your poor activity at the time, but because of Imp's stuff as well (which does make this conversation rather awkward, unfortunately). As for the specific people you referred to, TolyK's strategic uselessness, while incredibly aggravating, is something he tried in at least one previous game as town (also, he was making real contributions to the game somehow), and Nerjin's attack both was with a clear and rebuttable reason and was clearly a preliminary statement to be improved or altered soon.TheWetSheep: In addition to my issues with your predecessor (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5603178#msg5603178), I have issues with your play. Specifically, your TolyK vote. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5631638#msg5631638) Even for a newcomer to a very long game, this is light on content. There isn't a case, and the questions consist of a rhetorical question and a clarification request. Your next few questions to TolyK are a bit better, but you're barely there on him. Considering you've only really looked at TolyK today, there's an issue here.I can't address your issues with Imp, but would you say I'm the lowest on content today? Many people haven't even voted, and TolyK's (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5630358#msg5630358) and Nerjin's (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5633774#msg5633774) votes are similarly low-content and low-pressure. I realize this doesn't mean I'm less guilty of it, but why are you focusing on only me?
On the second, I have had substantially less time than I wished, and have had to rush my readings of the thread.Urist Imiknorris: Alright. Did you intend to read my Day 1 stuff later?
I was reading your FoSes in that post as actual FoSes instead of merely things that caught your eye.They were sort of a mix. Suspicion due to things I noticed that, in my quick initial post, I declared I would examine in more detail to determine what to do. By the way, you skipped a few questions here:
What makes you view Cheeetar and Flabort as the two sides of the conflict? What makes them "both," as in all, of the sides? What is it that is scummy about a willingness to critically examine "both sides" of an issue?Answer them.
It [the attack on Nerjin] hardly counts as an attack when you back down almost immediately, as you've done a rather large portion of the time.It was a true attack. Just one that, due to the response (which was a real-life-based explanation that fit the actions taken quite well), I had no reason to continue with. The fact that I am somewhat willing to accept reasonable defenses does not make aggression non-aggression.
Alright, I shall rephrase. Why is your attack a flipped version of one part of my attack on Imp, and why did you try to make the evidence fit such a conclusion instead of finding a conclusion with the evidence?QuoteBut this part does make your goal in your accusation clear. You want to flip part of my attack on Imp around, and put reaching my Imp conclusion about me above reaching an evidence-based conclusion. Why did you prioritize flipping the attack on Imp around over making a good case?False.
what is your read on Irony, exactly?General thoughts (no in-depth search, sorry): He's come across as stressed and confused for much of the game, albeit still trying to contribute well. Biggest issue, which I think I considered well-covered by others at the time, was his temporary obsession with Cheeetar. Generally, though, he's mostly seemed okay. Bit of a background player, though that's easy when the game's been dominated by self-destructing players (Flabort, MBP...) and irritating non-contributing players (TolyK, Varee...). Mild town lean.
In any case, I look forward to your promised evaluation.Not now, sorry.
Good use of that extension.I know. Been busy. Remain busy. Odds of lynching scum approaching zero.
If I suspect scum, I can push a case on them during the day. Scum-leading-town, however, are much more dangerous in the long run. So I am using my powers as a backup plan.
Good use of that extension.
TolyK: The more he types, the less inclined I am to believe he's an investigator. All of the stuff he's claimed (that person is definitely not scum, guys) has been pretty easy to claim as a scum, and the fact that he only explained why after they were dead for a few was suspicious, along with the generally reasonless way he acts. The only thing that's been on target so far has been pinning Toaster as a third party- and this was after Toaster'd already been rolecopped and somebody was likely going to expose him for stealing powers from corpses.It doesn't, except that it makes me less of a burden on everyone (which is not a valid point from my perspective). But I wouldn't be too disappointed with it, to be honest.
Toly K: You're 'okay' with being lynched. Let's say you're lynched and flip as town- how does this help us, beyond knowing that Jack is town and Toaster is third party?
Couldn't post yesterday, always got a bad gateway error. I suspect it was the Slow Internet movement thing causing it. I'll check it up when i'm back from classes.I, too, got this. So, 12 Hour extension from now.
So, I'm dealing with a ton of workload and missed stuffs due to missing ONE DAY of class due to sickness.You mean the first one? Yeah. You guys aren't even using this one though, so why should I give a second one?
And I'm still sick!
Though recovering, on due part to people wishing me well and physical regeneration :v
Err, didn't the extend push through?
Because we've a maximum of 2 per day?I'm still waiting for you guys to use this one.
I'm guessing I should not waste my one-shot, then.What one-shot?
Unless I hear a convincing case already, I already know what I'm doing. Saying what that is would wreck the plan, so everyone should just act like they would normally.What plan?
Mysteriousbluepuppet - spouting a case and defending it very stubbornly, slight scum read (knowing him)Could you detail his behavior?
Extend then
Unless I hear a convincing case already, I already know what I'm doing. Saying what that is would wreck the plan, so everyone should just act like they would normally.What plan?
Tiruin:Err, on why stuff aren't being posted for a day == a TON of factors :sExtend then
Why? Web's right; nothing happened with the last one, and we got a bonus day from the gateway errors.
What do you mean, detail his behavior? I didn't read through a bunch of the posts where he kept on stubbornly sticking to his "that power is too OP to be town". To be more precise I need to reread, and that's not something I can do atm.You added a
So...^ orange.
Unvote.
Current cases/info (totally incomplete)
Cheeetar - neutral, fairly solid with things going both ways (inc. Flabort's dilemma)
IronyOwl - null
Jack A T - town
Mysteriousbluepuppet - spouting a case and defending it very stubbornly, slight scum read (knowing him)
Nerjin - has pardon, but very possibly scum (due to PoE)
Scripten - very good candidate for an SK, timing of claim right after my action-investigate claim + bad logic for targets
Silthuri - slightly scum just based on gut feeling, not much more
Tiruin - very likely town
TheWetSheep - can't say at the moment as I need to reread
Toaster - blank Toaster read
TolyK - most definitely insane
Urist Imiknorris - need to reread, but replaced for 4mask (?) who seemed a bit scummy to me.
What's out night game?
Nerjin - has pardon, but very possibly scum (due to PoE)
Current cases/info [Nerjin makes notes in Limegreen]
TolyK - Town [I assume you think yourself town in this list]
Jack A T - town You say as much.
Tiruin - very likely town
Cheeetar - neutral, fairly solid with things going both ways (inc. Flabort's dilemma)
TheWetSheep - Null You say you need to re-read
Toaster - blank Toaster read I assume this just means null
IronyOwl - null
Scripten - very good candidate for an SK, timing of claim right after my action-investigate claim + bad logic for targets
Silthuri - slightly scum just based on gut feeling, not much more
Urist Imiknorris - need to reread, but replaced for 4mask (?) who seemed a bit scummy to me.
Mysteriousbluepuppet - Slight scum for poor case.
Nerjin - Has Pardon, but Scum due to Process of Elimination.
And wow long post.
So let me just sort this out really quickBecause you aren't 100% scum. Lets see...
So you pick four people as scum here out of the remaining players with three being people you have no case on. That's 3 town, 4 Nulls, 1 as SK, and 4 Scum. I'm not entirely sure how you arrive to your conclusion that I'm scum. Could you please elaborate on why process of elimination leads to me as opposed to the other three players that you pick out as scum? Why doesn't it point to one of the null players?'splained. I hope.
I'm just curious.
Process of Elimination. Not really elimination, but given 300 scum-points on 1300 total (x100 so that % likelihood is integer) it turns out to be a fairly high probability.TolyK could you come up with a more definitive or concrete or qualitative case?
As I said, this would be pseudo-math.
And wow long post.
Bah.ISN'T THIS VERY IMPORTANT TO DETAIL THEN!?
His character as a person, a human being, in his behavior.
For today, i'll keep my vote on Toaster. I cannot condone having a 3rd party around so long, especially one that could aquire kills, protect and other powers that WILL become detrimental to town the longuer the game goes.
Quote from: Mysteriousbluepuppet on Today at 06:18:20 pm
For today, i'll keep my vote on Toaster. I cannot condone having a 3rd party around so long, especially one that could aquire kills, protect and other powers that WILL become detrimental to town the longuer the game goes.
I would be voting for Toaster with you, were it not for the fact that he did take a bullet the previous night and might just take another. I don't think scum are his friend currently.
My vote holds, though, primarily for one reason.Why is the Imp stuff less of an issue now?
Why do you feel the need to deflect? What makes you so scared of my vote that you feel the need to not only defend yourself, but push me towards a bunch of other players?I was pointing out a flaw in your argument. I was not telling you to go vote those people.
So I've been reading back a bit, and I notice nobody at all has really made any big deal out of Urist Imiknoriss being able to lose his panic so quickly. I'm worried here that he's not the only one who did. What do you think the chances are that that nightkill's likely to be used again, Toaster?
Day will be ending any time, right? And we're heading into a tie(2 for TolyK, 2 for Scripten). Scripten's post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5651703#msg5651703) seems very transparent and genuine, and I'm having second thoughts. I'll go with TolyK, who's been suspicious for a while, to avoid a tie.
Cheeetar:So I've been reading back a bit, and I notice nobody at all has really made any big deal out of Urist Imiknoriss being able to lose his panic so quickly. I'm worried here that he's not the only one who did. What do you think the chances are that that nightkill's likely to be used again, Toaster?
Er... did I miss that? I didn't see him saying that. And I don't know; I'll just have to wait and see.
D3 I reverted from Dog state to Puppy state, ridding myself of Panic.
Jack:TheWetSheep: It's not that the Imp stuff is less of an issue now. It's that the brazen deflection is much more of an issue, and keeps my vote on you instead of Scripten.My vote holds, though, primarily for one reason.Why is the Imp stuff less of an issue now?
Yes, yes, the horrible flaw that was me going after you instead of Nerjin, TolyK, or a non-voter. The horrible flaw in my argument being that if much of my case was to be ignored and one single part was to be treated as my entire case, I should have been going after people you believed that single part of my case fit better than you.QuoteWhy do you feel the need to deflect? What makes you so scared of my vote that you feel the need to not only defend yourself, but push me towards a bunch of other players?I was pointing out a flaw in your argument. I was not telling you to go vote those people.
Would it be correct to say that your plan was basically to prime all the likely long-lived players so you could zap a bunch at the end if you felt it was necessary? Also, even ignoring the priming part, why did you feel so comfortable with blocking a skilled non-suspect?
'splained. I hope.TolyK: No, it really isn't. A bunch of numbers mean little without a good explanation of how you came up with those numbers (and no, "taken more or less from the sky" is not a good explanation).
So UI, why did MBP claim a different ability name than the one you gave?Toaster: Can you remind me where this was?
Jack A T is nonexistant, wich is a shame.MBP: I'm back now. Still in the poor mental/emotional state I was in that got me to drop out of the game, but I found the guilt tied to dropping out wasn't helping me.
My auto is Cute.
My other auto is Dog Years.
As a night action I can Play With someone, blocking them.
Dog (granted morning of D3):
My Auto is Circle of Life.
As a night action I can be someone's Best Friend,
Once, as a night action, I can invoke All Dogs Go To Heaven.
And i confirm the Puppy dog eyes from Urist
Toaster, Silthuri, Scripten, Cheeetar, Tolyk: Day's ending and you're not voting. Are you as braindead as I am or what? Are you fine with a 2-vote Scripten lynch?Braindead seems like the correct term. :P
No lynches don't help anyone but mafia. We gain information if someone is lynched. If no one is lynched scum get a free day kill and we come right back to where we are now. DO NOT NO LYNCH!!!Err, this, dudes.
Unvote. Don't feel comfortable with my malaise vote at the moment, and I think we're tied at two votes apiece anyway.Nope. We were, but I switched to Tolyk making it 3 for TolyK and 1 for Scripten. Now it's 2 TolyK, 2 No-lynch and 1 Scripten(I think).
No- I'm not. I don't have a better suggestion though- absolutely not thinking too well right now. I think Scripten has picked his night actions poorly, but he was also completely upfront about them. I'd rather a no lynch than a 2 person lynch on Scripten.
I'd agree with a no lynch, as I don't feel comfortable voting Scripten, or anyone, at the moment.
Scripten
Town
Emerald Cockroach Wasp
You are an Emerald Cockraoch Wasp. I really have nothing else to add to this.
(Night) Sting [target]: You may use this ability a second time each Night if this ability is the only action you use. You sting the target, paralyzing them. The target is blocked. If a target has been stung twice, you lay an egg in the target.
(1-Shot) Hatch: All eggs hatch, killing any players that have an egg laid in them.
[REDACTED]
IronyOwl
Town
Catgirl Maid
You are a… Catgirl Maid, I guess.
(Night) Nya~! [target]: You do your stupid catgirl noise thing and motivate the target, giving them an extra vote during the following Day.
[REDACTED]
(1-Shot, Night) Blood Destruction: You may activate this as a free action. You have an unlimited number of actions this Night. Afterwards, you may no longer action for the remainder of the game.
I tought it was extremely unlikely, since arsonist is normaly a SK ability. Was wrong, it seems.Err...redirect?
My action worked tonight, i spied you Tiruin and got your redirect, so that at least checks out.
WHat i'm wondering is what does Tolyk has to say about the whole lynch another player with less votes thing.
lynch another player with less votes thing.^?
Cheeetar and TolyK: Please explain why you would have preferred to no-lynch.
. Err...redirect?
Wut?. Err...redirect?
Redirecting lynches ?
Seriously, follow the damn game.
Cheeetar and TolyK: Please explain why you would have preferred to no-lynch.Because I wasn't sure Scripten was scum, and I'd prefer to check someone's claim (and get more information from others).
...Interesting...so you're both an inspector and someone who can, in particular, possess the ability to save thyself if you are voted (ie switch votes to a single person).
Alright, first off. Wuba, I didn't get any PM. Does this mean my action failed or what?
Now, uh.Cheeetar and TolyK: Please explain why you would have preferred to no-lynch.Because I wasn't sure Scripten was scum, and I'd prefer to check someone's claim (and get more information from others).
If you want to say that I'm back-tracking after Scripten is already not scum, read my posts before day end.
Now. I'm the person who switched the votes from me to Scripten - 'tis an ability that I got. It can only transfer from me, not anyone else. As you see, I was forced to lynch him instead of me by his own logic (if it's between him and me, I'm confirmed town to myself, so I'll lynch him).
Toaster, what happened this night? Though it might be better to wait until others claim. You got the autos, at least.
As you see, I was forced to lynch him instead of me by his own logic (if it's between him and me, I'm confirmed town to myself, so I'll lynch him).The wording does not sound right here.
MBP, what was the wording? Tiruin, why didn't you claim it earlier?o_O
Night, Rewrite (target). You randomise the targetOh, and I mean that I don't have this. Ever.
Reading back, could be a random ability thing too.
More importantly, Tiruin, TolyK, and MBP should claim what they did last night, and be really friggen crystal clear about it, considering how night action prevention went down last night. Anyone else who can circumvent the lockdown should claim too.Que?
For your aswer Toaster, i used my ability check TIruin, like i said i would. Got the Randomise ability thing i described earlier.Reword that again please in a legible format.
Tiruin: Just for the record, can you spell that out please?...Spell what out? o_O
More importantly, Tiruin, TolyK, and MBP should claim what they did last night, and be really friggen crystal clear about it, considering how night action prevention went down last night. Anyone else who can circumvent the lockdown should claim too.Why isn't UI in this area? He was able to puppy dog out. I wasn't affected by my own one-shot.
Tiruin: Is there anything in your role that could have caused MBP to hit the wrong target?Err, like I said before--I have nothing on my person that does redirects. Ever. At all.
MBP: You have either lied, or have been redirected. Has it explicitly been stated that Tiruin = [Has Redirect ability]?...Which he's not answering.
Why aren't you jumping on my case--as I've never mentioned such a power in my possession in my fullclaim earlier?
Night, Rewrite (target). You randomise the target
Reading back, could be a random ability thing too.
Hey TIruin. I'm all for more people playing, but i did say that. Again, ho about you drop the empty accusation and read what people are saying.I get it :v
Now, is this what you saw IN ME?QuoteNight, Rewrite (target). You randomise the target
Reading back, could be a random ability thing too.
There, spoonfed.
I tought it was Randomise the target as in, redirect abilities. Then i've read it back, and saw that it wasn't the good wording for that.
Tiruin: Is there anything in your role that could have caused MBP to hit the wrong target?If the answer to both those questions is no, it means there's at least one scum among the unblocked players(and very possibly two). Was anyone else unblocked, other than MBP, Tiruin and UI?
MBP: Is there anything in your role that could have caused you to hit the wrong target?
Wait- are you saying Tiruin redirected the lynch, MBP?
Tiruin: Is there anything in your role that could have caused MBP to hit the wrong target?If the answer to both those questions is no, it means there's at least one scum among the unblocked players(and very possibly two). Was anyone else unblocked, other than MBP, Tiruin and UI?
MBP: Is there anything in your role that could have caused you to hit the wrong target?
Toaster: Your probability control thing can't be blocked?
Wait- are you saying Tiruin redirected the lynch, MBP?
Why did you vote Tiruin here while asking a question to MBP who we already know is useless when it comes to anything concerning Tiruin due to bias and crappy scum-hunting.
If Tiruin redirected the lynch, then this means that, and... the Illuminati! Of course!Sigged.
This is not an auto- it requires an action.
Quote from: CheeetarIf Tiruin redirected the lynch, then this means that, and... the Illuminati! Of course!Sigged.
This is not an auto- it requires an action.
Toaster, didn't you claim only being able to take autos?
Toaster: You're missing Jack and Silthuri's claims, as they haven't posted yet.Urist Imiknorris: My action, a power transfer from TolyK to Tiruin, failed.
Unfortunately, Imp disappeared before she could respond. TheWetSheep replaced her.Yes, this is Imp attacking flabort for saying he wanted to be alive long enough to learn who tried to kill him, using the post-game reveal to say that he'll learn anyway whether alive or dead. There were a lot of valid reasons to attack flabort. This is not among them. It is a contrived reason, dependent on an unrealistically literal reading of flabort's statement; it is dependent on an assumption that flabort had no interest in dealing with the person(s) who wanted him dead and cared only about learning who they were. The assumption is, of course, not supported by flabort's actions, including his repeated assertions that one of his reasons for attacking Nerjin was a belief that Nerjin was the daykiller.Yes, I was panicking too. Somewhat. You don't gather ~5 votes, get daykilled, and then get the only votes so far back on you and not panic about that; someone wants you dead, and that someone is very determined. I want to be alive long enough to learn who.That doesn't sound or feel like a new player playing Town. Furthermore he's made a claim of being very, very familiar with hammers. So he also knows he doesn't 'need to be alive' to learn anything; we learn everything when the game is over no matter when we die.
I can't address your issues with Imp, but would you say I'm the lowest on content today? Many people haven't even voted, and TolyK's (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5630358#msg5630358) and Nerjin's (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5633774#msg5633774) votes are similarly low-content and low-pressure. I realize this doesn't mean I'm less guilty of it, but why are you focusing on only me?He deflected, and did so badly. He focused on a single aspect of my case and shoved me at other targets. When I called him out on his deflection (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5650723#msg5650723), he claimed he was just pointing out a flaw in my argument. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5652832#msg5652832) My response:
He has yet to respond to my last attack.I was pointing out a flaw in your argument. I was not telling you to go vote those people.Yes, yes, the horrible flaw that was me going after you instead of Nerjin, TolyK, or a non-voter. The horrible flaw in my argument being that if much of my case was to be ignored and one single part was to be treated as my entire case, I should have been going after people you believed that single part of my case fit better than you.
So, I ask again: why did you feel the need to deflect?
Everyone: Who is your top non-TolyK, non-MBP suspect and why?
Wait a second....
I can randomize people.
(I think I claimed this before?)
It's an infinite-use.
Perhaps it really was redirected at me?
In that case... Tiruin.
Because:
a) you're one of the people I said was likely town without inspecting.
b) you claimed to have miller, claimed the ability name, got it removed and claimed its removal; but the ability itself (what it does) was never checked by anyone! I (nor anyone) would inspect you because of that assumption!
c) there seems to be a long redirect from you to me, as Jack said.
Where did this idea come from?
c) actions targeting her were randomized and thus hit me twice - chance very low (~5% without any serious calculation)
Along with the fact that I previously thought her town (4mask cyom syndrome)....And here I was, thinking you actually had deeper insight than that in this game.
JackAnd you're doing nothing about it, @orange.
My picks don't really change. Tiruin is hiding stuff, i'm sure. Nerjin pardonning a 3rd party survivor get some red light flashing in my head. Tolyk using a 1 shot to save himself doesn't inspire me any confiance. At all. Furthermore, a full claim by everyone would be a good way to weed out the lairs arounds.No bully, plsSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Tiruin
I acknowledged it the first time you asked it, and then spoonfed you a second time
I HIGHLY suggest that you read what people are posting, miss. It's a good way to play a forums game on the internet.
MBP: You have either lied, or have been redirected. Has it explicitly been stated that Tiruin = [Has Redirect ability]?Did you answer this with a yes/no? No, you just requoted it.
Why aren't you jumping on my case--as I've never mentioned such a power in my possession in my fullclaim earlier?
Also could you rephrase or reword your last 2 post prior to this one please?
...I can't understand them in relation to Cheeetar's question.
What a fine image. Maybe you could imagine more of those fine pieces instead of buddying Tiruin. It's been what, 5 times now?This post is useless and not even relevant to scumhunting at all.
White knighting's one hell of a drug
b) someone else did it to her. Why would town redirect actions from her to me? Especially given I was a claimed cop at the time. Scum would have daykills and inspects hit me. So...> me remembering you talking about it before and my mind is fuzzy right now that I can't remember what was my idea back there x_x
I'm saying you're scum because the redirect protected you from alignment inspects, kills, redirects, etc.. . .?
I'm not dead yet via NK because I'm either useless, incorrectly pinned someone as town, or I'm required to redirect stuff away from you.
Nobody has claimed any power like that, thus it's likely the job of the scum.
A) since I said that you were town, you were less at risk of getting found out. I also said, a while back, something along the line of "I am not dead yet, so I must be mistaken in a townie".Also what relevance does the quotation marks give to your suspect list?
I can tell you mine: TheWetSheep.Yes, I admit that I made the mistake of believing that I could address one part of your case individually, as a separate attack from the rest of it. I see now why that doesn't work in this instance. Again, the intention wasn't to deflect to those people.
He deflected, and did so badly. He focused on a single aspect of my case and shoved me at other targets. When I called him out on his deflection (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5650723#msg5650723), he claimed he was just pointing out a flaw in my argument. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5652832#msg5652832) My response:I was pointing out a flaw in your argument. I was not telling you to go vote those people.Yes, yes, the horrible flaw that was me going after you instead of Nerjin, TolyK, or a non-voter. The horrible flaw in my argument being that if much of my case was to be ignored and one single part was to be treated as my entire case, I should have been going after people you believed that single part of my case fit better than you.
So, I ask again: why did you feel the need to deflect?
Wait a second.Do you forget what you said in this post? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5632729;topicseen#msg5632729)
I can randomize people.
(I think I claimed this before?)
It's an infinite-use.
Perhaps it really was redirected at me?
Tiruin, I did not remember whether I had claimed it at the time. Granted, I have a LOT of abilities on my phone list which I have or had at some point....Did you bother to sort your abilities in anyway differing this game from that other game?
Oh and wow, I didn't realize that many people were voting me already. O.o
@TolyK; @A:
...Is what you're saying that 'Mr. Inspector says Tiruin is town, but did not inspect them'; hence due to your talk that I'm town, people won't suspect her, hence she's scum now?
Because that assumes a ton from everyone else.A) since I said that you were town, you were less at risk of getting found out. I also said, a while back, something along the line of "I am not dead yet, so I must be mistaken in a townie".Also what relevance does the quotation marks give to your suspect list?
Everyone: Who is your top non-TolyK, non-MBP suspect and why?
Okay, did you read the part where he's specifically asking about people who aren't TolyK or MBP? Do you have any reason at all on Toaster related to his play? What do you think he is?Everyone: Who is your top non-TolyK, non-MBP suspect and why?
Well I don't know. I'm kind of bugged at MBP's refusal to explain virtually anything and simply re-quotes himself or repeats himself over and over again. TolyK... I'm not sure about. I suppose I'm a bit wary of Toaster because of all of his power and such.
Toaster. He's been taking an incredibly active role in the game for a supposedly survival oriented third party, and I still don't entirely believe him about Shakerag/Persus13's autos. One of them could be true, but both of them being true just seems strange.Cheeetar: What do you believe Toaster is, if not a survivor? Why?
I have a one-shot kill, I can now check role name/ability claims, and I can randomize (that turns into a redirect with Toaster's help.I'm guessing you were referring to Toaster's ability to control random events, yes?
Silthuri: Well, this is certainly useful. Since the start of day 2, the only votes you've made have been against high-profile easy targets (and you didn't even vote yesterday), and you've done little to help town find scum. As your response to a question asking for your top non-MBP, non-TolyK suspect, the best answer you could give is the claimed survivor for being too powerful. Granted, you've been busy, but this still isn't great. I'd like to see your full reads, please.Everyone: Who is your top non-TolyK, non-MBP suspect and why?Well I don't know. I'm kind of bugged at MBP's refusal to explain virtually anything and simply re-quotes himself or repeats himself over and over again. TolyK... I'm not sure about. I suppose I'm a bit wary of Toaster because of all of his power and such.
Tiruin: That question about non-TolyK and non-MBP suspects is to you as well.Other than them, not very well 'top''d. I've trouble in sighting on a nominal scale in this instance.
But can you deny that you are blatantly buddying Nerjin, and him the same?I like how you never reply to even communicating with us. And yet do NOTHING about it.
No, you cannot.
Toaster. He's been taking an incredibly active role in the game for a supposedly survival oriented third party, and I still don't entirely believe him about Shakerag/Persus13's autos. One of them could be true, but both of them being true just seems strange.Cheeetar: What do you believe Toaster is, if not a survivor? Why?
Toaster. He's been taking an incredibly active role in the game for a supposedly survival oriented third party, and I still don't entirely believe him about Shakerag/Persus13's autos. One of them could be true, but both of them being true just seems strange.Cheeetar: What do you believe Toaster is, if not a survivor? Why?
Another third party. Serial killer/mafia-ally? Definitely not mafia because of the kill he took from night 3 (and threat of being lynched day 4 for not blocking all the kills), but I'm not buying a survivor this actively influencing the game- kills are getting through and he has nothing to say about it (while still blocking mine and others actions.)
Nerjin: Great, you're here. You're angry. Now would you mind answering my question: who is your top non-TolyK, non-MBP suspect?
Man, am i the only one seeing all that blatant Nerjin-Tiruin buddying?
It's like they are fucking coinjoined twins.
But can you deny that you are blatantly buddying Nerjin, and him the same?
No, you cannot.
Well i can give you a pity FoS, Tiruin. Those things are free. If you want a vote you'll have to wait after Tolyk, barring a upset during rolecall.
TheWetSheep: Now, on to more questions. First, when you gave your response (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5636345#msg5636345), what was your intention in specifically pointing towards TolyK and Nerjin? Second, I would like to know who your top non-TolyK, non-MBP suspect is.When I looked back through the thread those were the people I found with lackluster cases.
WetsheepHave you bothered through your fuckign madness to see me QUESTIONING your logic on seeing my 'Randomize'?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Because Tiruin can't fucking read my posts doesn't mean those posts exist. I re-read and said it was a fucking Randomise days ago. Confusion between target is randomised and randomise target. It's fucking insulting. Between half the game being invisible and the other not even fuckign bothering, i'm fuckign mad.
I mean you acknowledged TolyK having it.and god damn emoticon. This isn't fuckign MSN be clear what your ''questions'' are.
i can't understand what the fuck you are talking about. All i see is shit like is stupid falseties likeAlso I've no idea about MSN.QuoteI mean you acknowledged TolyK having it.and god damn emoticon. This isn't fuckign MSN be clear what your ''questions'' are.
WetsheepAnd PS, to poke your anger.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Because Tiruin can't fucking read my posts doesn't mean those posts exist. I re-read and said it was a fucking Randomise days ago. Confusion between target is randomised and randomise target. It's fucking insulting. Between half the game being invisible and the other not even fuckign bothering, i'm fuckign mad.
You are a liar or i was redirected. Damn, that was hard. NEXT...I waited so long. Only to hear this.
Another third party. Serial killer/mafia-ally? Definitely not mafia because of the kill he took from night 3 (and threat of being lynched day 4 for not blocking all the kills), but I'm not buying a survivor this actively influencing the game- kills are getting through and he has nothing to say about it (while still blocking mine and others actions.)
Would you rather I just sit back and watch?
...And I'm seriously waiting on your post on me, TolyK. :I
Follow-up question: Are you 100% sure that Toaster is a survivor? The raw data of your inspect on him states...what again?
...Or, y'know, I'll just balance the votes to end up in a no-lynch.
N1: Inspect Toaster, got "town" "neutral" (action happened twice), lost Filler ability
Tiruin: Do you want a no lynch? I still want to lynch TolyK for his actions yesterday- it goes contrary to everything he'd been saying before, and he hasn't adequately explained his change of tune.It is...hard to explain.
"Neutral" could mean a lot of things- I'm thinking it just means third party (which would fit with serial killer and mafia ally as well, unless mafia ally reveals as scum when alignment inspected.)Did TolyK give details in specifics regarding this? I mean, with an inspection-ability like that, there'd at LEAST be some guide pertaining as to what he sees. The goal? The alignment?
TolyK
Town
Lorem Ipsum
You are Lorem Ipsum. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.
(Auto) Filler Ability: If a player would steal one of your abilities, instead give them a dummy ability named Filler Ability. Every Cycle, they have a 50% chance to lose an ability while they have Filler Ability.
(Night) Target Rewrite [target]: You randomize the target.
(3-Shot, Night) Fill In The Blanks [target]: Choose one: learn the target’s alignment; or learn what action the target used during the Night; or both, and you can no longer use this ability.
Jack A T
Town
Kuypers v. Langley, 1992 CanLII 693 (BC SC)
The Honorable, the Chief Justice of the Court of the BYOR 13 Game. All persons having business before the Honorable, the Supreme Court of the BYOR 13 Game, are admonished to draw near and give their attention, for the Court is now sitting.
(Day) OBJECTION!: To activate this action, you must quote a post in which you reply to a quoted vote with the phrase “OBJECTION!” That vote is removed, and the player may no longer vote for the rest of the Day. If, however, that post is replied to with “OBJECTION!” by the original author, then you lose your vote as well, and may no longer vote for the rest of the Day.
[REDACTED]
(1-Shot) Illegal Seizure [target]: Steal a named ability. If you do not provide a name that matches an ability exactly, you steal a random ability. If the player files the proper paperwork to the courts, the ability shall be returned with interest. But that requires filling out paperwork that can only be obtained from the judge.
Man i wish everyone was here. Why do all the cool kids go out and have lot's of fun and other stuff on fridays.MBP: I'm here!
Well okay then. Anyways, I'm still for getting rid of Mysterious Blue Puppet for the same reasons as yesterday. Thoughts?Nerjin! (sorry for absence, was power outage-d)
Well i guess i owe apologies to Tiruin....For...what?
Sorry.
I'll ask again why there hasn't been a mass claim.People probably being lazy? :S
Me, Nerjin, and TWS can vote today because Webadict said in the initial post of Day 6 that we were 'not voting' rather than 'unable to vote'.Yeah...funny thing :v
Who hasn't fullclaimed (role & actions) by this point? We should be looking for whoever activated that thing to save TolyK's life on Day 4, because it wasn't TolyK.I'm trying to collate info from all pages back but if anyone else can do it--please do. Doing that in between-home clean up due to typhoon is pretty...hectic.
Yesterday...What makes Cheeetar scum?
And no, my guess is that even with hammer you can still lose. Best guess would be the SK or a vig kill.
Let's be real here,we know you are scum. You can drop the masquerade.
While I appreciate you guarding Tiruin: Why not guard the confirmed town, Jack A T?Jack was confirmed?
Something is messing with the lynch, in the least. Toaster: Why is the Auto not [REDACTED].
Next: Considering TOlyK's and my communication D1, it'd be REAL weird that the Filler Ability is an...Auto. And its predispositioned for stealing rather than anything else--I was the one who received that thing early in the game and...nobody is commenting on it for today?
TolyK (who was lynched day 5) claimed to have investigated Jack A T and received town. Neither of our two people with protects protected him. That's a bit frustrating to be honest :(....Damnit >_>
Tiruin:Something is messing with the lynch, in the least. Toaster: Why is the Auto not [REDACTED].
Next: Considering TOlyK's and my communication D1, it'd be REAL weird that the Filler Ability is an...Auto. And its predispositioned for stealing rather than anything else--I was the one who received that thing early in the game and...nobody is commenting on it for today?
Maybe you should read TolyK's auto again. (Hint: His power trumped mine)
Cheeetar: The only thing I haven't claimed is my other starting auto; I am immune to auto abilities as long as I don't action. As such, I opted not to action last night, given that whole "totally interested in survival" thing.
(Auto) Filler Ability: If a player would steal one of your abilities, instead give them a dummy ability named Filler Ability. Every Cycle, they have a 50% chance to lose an ability while they have Filler Ability.It has no mention of anything towards you or towards itself.
I don't care what you think. He's scum. He has to be. No one would pursue such a shit case, have such shit play, and be such an all around unpleasant person to play with.What if he was Town, Nerjin?
Besides, you already think I'm scum so I don't really care how you view my actions.
I think our best chance of nailing scum at the moment is voting for Silthuri. I'm not going to vote her just yet because we have more to discuss today, but... the whole coasting along and never making any significant arguments thing is irksome. Plus, we're not going after a 'high-profile twit' as Jack called it, because Silthuri's been pretty much inconspicuous.Why Silthuri, though, of all people?
I'm not going to lynch Tiruin, because then I'd lose (or become town ally? Gonna PM Webadict about that, should have before >.>)And this had any effect on your demeanor towards me @D1: How?
I am a survivor.
I'm a survivor, also I have no actions and steal autos(?)Err o_o
I may also revive once upon death. Again, never used because I haven't died.That makes you and him. Oh huh.
You could also be the SK--given the status currently. What makes Toaster an SK, regardless of your alignment?I understand why one might think I'm SK, but think about the differences between our roles. Toaster's is based on gathering power. Mine is based on simply staying alive. I vaguely remember it being mentioned somewhere that two survivors are unlikely in a game. But theory is not my thing. He might be another survivor. I don't know. This is just my thought process.
Oh hey, you finally hit me right! \o/
But:Oh hey, you finally hit me right! \o/
had to happen someday.
Doesn't quite fit with what she said^ ???
You could also be the SK--given the status currently. What makes Toaster an SK, regardless of your alignment?I understand why one might think I'm SK, but think about the differences between our roles. Toaster's is based on gathering power. Mine is based on simply staying alive. I vaguely remember it being mentioned somewhere that two survivors are unlikely in a game. But theory is not my thing. He might be another survivor. I don't know. This is just my thought process.
I'm not going to lynch Tiruin, because then I'd lose (or become town ally? Gonna PM Webadict about that, should have before >.>)And this had any effect on your demeanor towards me @D1: How?
You could also be the SK--given the status currently. What makes Toaster an SK, regardless of your alignment?I understand why one might think I'm SK, but think about the differences between our roles. Toaster's is based on gathering power. Mine is based on simply staying alive. I vaguely remember it being mentioned somewhere that two survivors are unlikely in a game. But theory is not my thing. He might be another survivor. I don't know. This is just my thought process.
Cool. Why not counterclaim Toaster when he claimed survivor- if he's the SK, you're going to have to die for him to win. He's basically the biggest threat to you in the game.
I'd also like to hammer Silthuri before she has the chance to react to this suspicion, seeing as she did claim vote-related abilities.Uh... revive? If this is LYLO, you're screwing yourself over because I'll just come back. I'd advice trying to lynch at least one scum before coming after me.
webadict: Do doctors know if they stop a kill? Do would-be victims know if they're protected?When have I ever volunteered free information?
But Silthuri's claimed a revive. It'd be a waste of a mislynch for scum.
I'm good for UI or Silthuri, to be honest. Might actually be better to go for UI if Silthuri actually does have one of the claimed abilities.Err...I'd recommend an extend because I'm seriously pondering the implications of many things on my side--stemming from one thing in question in my notes.
Tiruin, Toaster, what are your thoughts?
Additionally, didn't Silthuri claim that [her] votesteal was a night action?I did in a sort of indirect way. It is a night action.
Last night, I twiddled my thumbs. My only night action is a one-shot I've yet to use, meaning I've never taken a night action in this entire game.
The one-shot I've spoken about before is the ability to steal the vote of one person permanently. I have not used this ability because I did not find a worthy target before the lockdown and haven't tried to use it since.
I'm good for UI or Silthuri, to be honest. Might actually be better to go for UI if Silthuri actually does have one of the claimed abilities.I'd rather thoughts be put into this. Also, a serious EXTEND.
Tiruin, Toaster, what are your thoughts?
I think Nerjin and MBP are scum.
Holy crap I have actual actions now!
<scripten's action>
Irony had a track, which means when combined with his 1-shot could track everyone one night. Not sure why he hadn't used it yet (or if so why he hadn't claimed it.)
The only one who'd hammer MBP would be you, and you'd have to give him time to make a defense (lest you put yourself in the firing line again for quickhammering), which would give Nerjin time to 'calm down' and unvote (like he did). Put on your tinfoil hats, boys, because it was all staged, just like the moon landing and 9/11.I think Nerjin and MBP are scum.
No way, no how. Nerjin put MBP at L-1 while MBP was busy looking as scummy as possible.
Cheeetar: The only thing I haven't claimed is my other starting auto; I am immune to auto abilities as long as I don't action. As such, I opted not to action last night, given that whole "totally interested in survival" thing.
...Really...proud? :II'm not going to lynch Tiruin, because then I'd lose (or become town ally? Gonna PM Webadict about that, should have before >.>)And this had any effect on your demeanor towards me @D1: How?
Honestly really proud of how I played Day 1. Essentially I pushed the weakest case in the world against you, and once it inevitably failed everyone went out of it thinking that you were towny because of it. Worth the minor suspicion cast on me because of it.
Cheeet:...Really...proud? :II'm not going to lynch Tiruin, because then I'd lose (or become town ally? Gonna PM Webadict about that, should have before >.>)And this had any effect on your demeanor towards me @D1: How?
Honestly really proud of how I played Day 1. Essentially I pushed the weakest case in the world against you, and once it inevitably failed everyone went out of it thinking that you were towny because of it. Worth the minor suspicion cast on me because of it.
You were |---| thiiiiis close to being lynched. And you're proud? :V
I'm leaning for a hammer on TWS.
I'm most suspicious of Silthuri for the survivor counterclaim, and UI for his general conduct and 'forgetting' to protect the confirmed town, as well as replacing the generally shaky 4maskwolf. I'm definitely understanding TWS as the third member of their scumgroup though, especially due to the unexplained ability to vote.I've been checking ZU's vote/lurker tracker but it seems...stunted, somehow, at the moment?
Webadict: Did you forget to create a deadchat this game? :IIs this a serious question?
I wonder how NQT is doing in deadchat.Just peachy, Tiru-chan.
I've been checking ZU's vote/lurker tracker but it seems...stunted, somehow, at the moment?Pro-tip: always check the 'clear DB first' box, otherwise it won't work.
It searches only...few posts of some, and others come up as blanks. o_o
So manual vote pattern checking is fun.
UI: Do you have any idea on what the Labrador God does? Also it seems you reverted this morning? o_ONo clue, and yesterday, respectively.
I'm most suspicious of Silthuri for the survivor counterclaim, and UI for his general conduct and 'forgetting' to protect the confirmed town, as well as replacing the generally shaky 4maskwolf. I'm definitely understanding TWS as the third member of their scumgroup though, especially due to the unexplained ability to vote.I still recommend lynching TWS. Also, your cases require support:
Also I'm assuming three scum instead of four because the game is still going on.Are you forgetting your alignment or...?
D5 (TolyK): His ability trumps mine and stuck me with (Auto) Filller. Pointless since I can force it to not affect me.And how does it trump yours, Toaster?
Calling it now: scum is TWS, Tiruin, and UI.Error on line 7: Cheeetar.align must equal Tiruin.align
...
Also I'm assuming three scum instead of four because the game is still going on.
That sounds like quite the cop out, considering you got a kill, targeted the guy that got killed, and have an ability that force you to switch..How do you want me to respond to this?
TWS: It's good to see that you actually tried to protect Jack last night. Who do you think the most scummy people are? Why do you have a vote?MBP has been acting with blatant-jester levels of scumminess for a lot of the game... but I don't actually think he's scum.
The urge to hammer you so we lose and you're proved wrong is so god damn strong, MBP. If I didn't want everyone else to lose because of how I felt about you, I would do it.How do you know lynching MBP would make you lose?
Also I'm assuming three scum instead of four because the game is still going on.Actually, since it's a kingmaker scenario with an SK around, it's possible for there to be four.
Error on line 7: Cheeetar.align must equal Tiruin.align
D5 (TolyK): His ability trumps mine and stuck me with (Auto) Filller. Pointless since I can force it to not affect me.And how does it trump yours, Toaster?
Also I'm assuming three scum instead of four because the game is still going on.Actually, since it's a kingmaker scenario with an SK around, it's possible for there to be four.
Cheeet; TWS = Lynch, and you act Toaster back to himself. How's that for you?
-What makes Silthuri's claim scummy, and what makes it scummy in a 'mafia' way instead of a 'third party' way?
-Define my general conduct. I'm also not the only one who forgot Jack was confirmed, but you actively don't care about that.
-Is there anything else about TWS that's scummy to you?
Maybe. Could be Cheeetar lying about his brotherhood (kinda low odds); do we have any independent confirmation of that?Nope.
-snip-No response to me? :(
Nerjin's use of a kingmaker ability is suspect - he would have to be supremely confident in his own abilites over other peoples, and since he was willing to give scum an easy hammer on MBP based on emotion, that doesn't really add up.Actually he leveled the idea and presented his stance on the moment--it is to be noted that it is a continuous and understandable stance, given Nerjin's outlook on MBP in the prior days.
One of the survivors is probably lying, and Toaster's been confirmed neutral. I don't feel like Toaster's actions line up with a SK's motive, so Silthuri looks like scum.. . ."Probably?" What makes you say 'probably' instead of anything else? If 'probably', then is there any other suspect other than the survivors?
(3-Shot, Night) Fill In The Blanks [target]: Choose one: learn the target’s alignment; or learn what action the target used during the Night; or both, and you can no longer use this ability.Is Neutral pertaining directly to Survivor? Nein!
Cheeetar's claim dribbled out over a series of posts(starting here), which he should know not to do by now.T'would be weird to just claim BROTHAH! out of the blue, wouldn't it. Especially in this kind of situation--unless, by which I believe its a scum-move, he's using it as a ruse (because for some reason, nobody is contending me or making a serious case against me the whole game ._.) ...err, because of the parenthesis leading to a majority-conclusion to get him out of view.
UI's attack on Nerjin gave me a gut feeling of him being opportunistic scum jumping on an easy target, and his action claim last night was suspect.His attack on Nerjin...being which one again?
UI: Bodyguard TiruinThis?
Who do I think the scum are? 3 of: Silthuri, UI, Cheeetar, Nerjin. Cheeetar and Nerjin cannot both be scum, so I guess it must be Silthuri and UI and either one of them. The other is probably the SK, or it could be Toaster. If there's anything missing in my logic, tell me.@Orange: Yes.
I don't fully understand how that's a possibility. If so: then oh wow my feelings >_>Also I'm assuming three scum instead of four because the game is still going on.Actually, since it's a kingmaker scenario with an SK around, it's possible for there to be four.
Tiruin:...It's self-evident because you can see it, yourself. Err...yeah. :oD5 (TolyK): His ability trumps mine and stuck me with (Auto) Filller. Pointless since I can force it to not affect me.And how does it trump yours, Toaster?
All I know is that it does. It's quite self-evident, given the description of the ability, what I got, and that TolyK is the sole person to not flip with a [REDACTED].
TWS:Could you illustrate it for us?Also I'm assuming three scum instead of four because the game is still going on.Actually, since it's a kingmaker scenario with an SK around, it's possible for there to be four.
If I'm right that Tiruin is scum and Cheeetar is brothered to her, then the count would make sense.
Mhmm!Cheeet; TWS = Lynch, and you act Toaster back to himself. How's that for you?
I redirected Toaster to himself last night, and it seemingly did nothing. Are you sure you'd like me to do it again this night?
Why UI and why not TWS?...You missed this?
Why UI and why not TWS?
Why UI and why not TWS?...You missed this?
Also...because you were acting on him in the past days?
Of all people, it was all Toaster throughout...why?
...Erm, how does that work?Why UI and why not TWS?
I'm more suspicious of UI because TWS doesn't have anybody defending him.
I thought he was the serial killer- so, redirecting him to himself stops him killing anybody, and also potentially makes him kill himself. But it succeeded last night, and nothing happened, so I'm not sure what to think.Oh.
...Erm, how does that work?Why UI and why not TWS?
I'm more suspicious of UI because TWS doesn't have anybody defending him.
I thought he was the serial killer- so, redirecting him to himself stops him killing anybody, and also potentially makes him kill himself. But it succeeded last night, and nothing happened, so I'm not sure what to think.Oh.
...In that case, redirect whomever isn'y lynched and isn't a claimed survivor at the other.
Isn't the merit in how they back them up and not solely that there are people backing them up, at all?...Erm, how does that work?Why UI and why not TWS?
I'm more suspicious of UI because TWS doesn't have anybody defending him.
If TWS were mafia, he'd have some people around to back him up- but no, it seems people are fine with TWS being lynched. You don't think the scum team would try to prevent such a thing happening, given that they only need one more mislynch to absolutely cement their win?
So it's basically unanimous that TWS is scum?
Is UI a bigger threat than TWS, if we discard alignment for the moment?
Hell- I forgot that UI claimed to have a revive. Assuming he wasn't lying about that (and thus scum) he'll revive and we have a chance to block/redirect scum tonight.It's not a revive. It'll give me a new role and delay my death for a cycle.
...It was an interrogative sentence. As in, a question rather than some kind of declarative build-up ._.So it's basically unanimous that TWS is scum?
I dislike this. I dislike that Urist is building a consensus that TWS is scum (especially given that we don't all think he's scum), and it makes me feel as if Urist is scum- more of a mood feeling from his posts than a solid evidence feeling, I'm sorry.
Hell- I forgot that UI claimed to have a revive. Assuming he wasn't lying about that (and thus scum) he'll revive and we have a chance to block/redirect scum tonight.The question is: Does he flip. :P
Once, as a night action, I can invoke All Dogs Go To Heaven. I become the Labrador Retriever God for a day and a night, after which I die. This ability is automatically triggered in the event of my death.
...You're seriously being wasteful, Cheeet?
My confidence is really dropping in you here :/
And by that, I mean you're really pushing a very unconvincing case.
SK'd be better (for me)(because its either you or her as the SK :V)
Toaster: Scum....Seriously, my confidence in you is sinking :/ That's quite a brief explanation, huh....You're seriously being wasteful, Cheeet?
My confidence is really dropping in you here :/
And by that, I mean you're really pushing a very unconvincing case.
Well, who do you think is most likely scum?
Okay. Silthuri's been very inactive, last to claim, with a very poor claim. As I see it, there's three possibilities. Silthuri is SK, Scum, or Survivor.@_@
I don't believe she's Survivor because she didn't counterclaim Toaster's initial claim of survivor (which she shoulda if she was survivor.)
I don't believe she's SK because she hasn't at all purused the Toaster with a revive- her explanation for this was 'she didn't do confrontations well'.
It leaves scum, and it fits nicely with UI being in a scumteam with her given his defence of her.
Consider: It's possible we're in a game with no survivor. Maybe they're both lying?
No, actually, it's probably best to go for lynching Silthuri- scummier than both TWS and UI, inactive, and with a very unconvincing counterclaim.Because really. How is she scummier than them?
Toaster, do you think Silthuri is the SK?(he'd not say himself if he was the SK :P but I jest)
What happens if we lynch Silthuri and she's an actual Survivor? :V Or worse, the SK? :^
PS: I think you forgot she has a one-shot Revive.What happens if we lynch Silthuri and she's an actual Survivor? :V Or worse, the SK? :^
Things don't go so well for us- if she's the SK, likely we lose immediately. If she's survivor, well, we have the grace period as the Mafia try to wear down Toaster's lives, and the possibility of blocking/redirecting them. But I don't think she's either.
My thinking: Anybody with a one-shot daykill (and I am assuming it is one-shot because it hasn't been used since) would not have another one-shot (or at least not as powerful as the oneshots Tiruin and Nerjin have used, for example.)UI perhaps? He lacks any notice of one-shot but that's seemingly awkward to his other powers, admittedly.
PS: I think you forgot she has a one-shot Revive.What happens if we lynch Silthuri and she's an actual Survivor? :V Or worse, the SK? :^
Things don't go so well for us- if she's the SK, likely we lose immediately. If she's survivor, well, we have the grace period as the Mafia try to wear down Toaster's lives, and the possibility of blocking/redirecting them. But I don't think she's either.
My thinking: Anybody with a one-shot daykill (and I am assuming it is one-shot because it hasn't been used since) would not have another one-shot (or at least not as powerful as the oneshots Tiruin and Nerjin have used, for example.)UI perhaps? He lacks any notice of one-shot but that's seemingly awkward to his other powers, admittedly.
Soooo. Cheeet. How far has my persuasion to you gone in poking Silthuri?
Unvote Silthuri- wariness of vote being stolen, etc.
Sheepy sheepI didn't see any questions addressed to me. What did you want me to respond to?-snip-No response to me? :(
I realize he suspected MBP earlier, but my point still stands. I can't imagine that he, as town, would willfully put himself in a situation where the fate of the town rests completely on him, then risk everything in a fit of anger. Even though he didn't end up being the only one with a vote, putting MBP at L-1 at lylo is throwing the game almost as much.QuoteNerjin's use of a kingmaker ability is suspect - he would have to be supremely confident in his own abilites over other peoples, and since he was willing to give scum an easy hammer on MBP based on emotion, that doesn't really add up.Actually he leveled the idea and presented his stance on the moment--it is to be noted that it is a continuous and understandable stance, given Nerjin's outlook on MBP in the prior days.
However, narrow down reading to the orange part.
...It's like you're subtly saying both are town in that situation. o-o
And add in the factor of emotion--that's only purely known as a result and not the intent, so the conclusion of such and such 'adding up' is already flawed.
I say probably because it's not 100% certain. I know he wasn't confirmed to be a survivor, and I'm not saying he was.QuoteOne of the survivors is probably lying, and Toaster's been confirmed neutral. I don't feel like Toaster's actions line up with a SK's motive, so Silthuri looks like scum.. . ."Probably?" What makes you say 'probably' instead of anything else? If 'probably', then is there any other suspect other than the survivors?
Note in orange: Check TolyK. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5672038#msg5672038)Quote(3-Shot, Night) Fill In The Blanks [target]: Choose one: learn the target’s alignment; or learn what action the target used during the Night; or both, and you can no longer use this ability.Is Neutral pertaining directly to Survivor? Nein!
I mean, really. I do vividly recall TolyK poking at that exact ideology back in the thread but I'm busy being alone and sad here.
...Also, care to expound the purple part? You feel such... alright. Why?
Going after Nerjin for his MBP attack at the beginning of the day.QuoteUI's attack on Nerjin gave me a gut feeling of him being opportunistic scum jumping on an easy target, and his action claim last night was suspect.His attack on Nerjin...being which one again?
Also action claim being. . .?Yeah, not guarding the confirmed town.QuoteUI: Bodyguard TiruinThis?
Those people are scum for the reasons I gave above, and process of elimination. Out of the eight players, you, me, Toaster and MBP are not scum, so the scum are in the other four. A Cheeetar/Nerjin pair would have hammered for the win already, so they're not scum.QuoteWho do I think the scum are? 3 of: Silthuri, UI, Cheeetar, Nerjin. Cheeetar and Nerjin cannot both be scum, so I guess it must be Silthuri and UI and either one of them. The other is probably the SK, or it could be Toaster. If there's anything missing in my logic, tell me.@Orange: Yes.
...How you got there.
Even if they're half the town, they don't necessarily control the lynch today, and another of them could die to the SK in the night, making a town win possible with four scum.I don't fully understand how that's a possibility. If so: then oh wow my feelings >_>Also I'm assuming three scum instead of four because the game is still going on.Actually, since it's a kingmaker scenario with an SK around, it's possible for there to be four.
Hang on. Everyone: What happened with your panic?
Wow, this extension has been super useful. No wonder everyone suggested it!Yes it is useful Mr Snark.
Nerjin, Tiruin- do you have any insights/changes of thought since you last posted? I haven't! Still probably gonna lynch Silthuri here.I gave my insight :<
And I'm not under suspect because...?QuoteAlso action claim being. . .?Yeah, not guarding the confirmed town.QuoteUI: Bodyguard TiruinThis?
I realize he suspected MBP earlier, but my point still stands. I can't imagine that he, as town, would willfully put himself in a situation where the fate of the town rests completely on him, then risk everything in a fit of anger. Even though he didn't end up being the only one with a vote, putting MBP at L-1 at lylo is throwing the game almost as much....You do know it doesn't rest completely on him, right?
I know I'm presuming that MBP is town, but I said that I was fairly certain he was earlier in the post. And I'm not saying both are town, I'm saying that a situation in which both are town doesn't make much sense.
I say probably because it's not 100% certain. I know he wasn't confirmed to be a survivor, and I'm not saying he was.Right...
Toaster has been very open, forthcoming and willing to help town and hasn't used his probability control in underhanded ways(which would probably be quite easy and useful for him as an SK).
Going after Nerjin for his MBP attack at the beginning of the day.So how is this an opportunistic scum feeling?
Those people are scum for the reasons I gave above, and process of elimination. Out of the eight players, you, me, Toaster and MBP are not scum, so the scum are in the other four. A Cheeetar/Nerjin pair would have hammered for the win already, so they're not scum.Nerjin
Why is there brevity in your posts? :OHang on. Everyone: What happened with your panic?
As far as I know, I'm still panicked. I was never notified about being free of it.
Toaster has been very open, forthcoming and willing to help town and hasn't used his probability control in underhanded ways(which would probably be quite easy and useful for him as an SK).
Those people are scum for the reasons I gave above, and process of elimination. Out of the eight players, you, me, Toaster and MBP are not scum, so the scum are in the other four. A Cheeetar/Nerjin pair would have hammered for the win already, so they're not scum.
If Silthuri and UI are telling the truth, is lynching either of them pointless? If UI's scum and we're at lylo, won't we lose if he doesn't die when we lynch him? Same with Silthuri?
Hang on. Everyone: What happened with your panic?
Nerjin, Tiruin- do you have any insights/changes of thought since you last posted? I haven't! Still probably gonna lynch Silthuri here.I gave my insight :<
Preferable: TWS is the lynch target; least priority being Toaster/Silthuri.
And you're somehow still sticking with Silthuri over the rest...
Do we have a full roleclaim & action claim for all players yet?*Bloop* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5682561#msg5682561)
And yes: I appreciate the insights, but I'm not convinced it's TWS, or that Silthuri isn't scummy.. . .Why again? I'm a tad bit forgetful :x
Do we have a full roleclaim & action claim for all players yet?*Bloop* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5682561#msg5682561)
There's the links in that post :O
Now we don't have a vote pattern count yet, because ZU's lurkertracker seems grumpy at me to not be able to post a permanent link to it.
And yes: I appreciate the insights, but I'm not convinced it's TWS, or that Silthuri isn't scummy.. . .Why again? I'm a tad bit forgetful :x
What measures tips the scales in favor of one or the other, and what value do you put to it that makes them scummy?
@_@And yes: I appreciate the insights, but I'm not convinced it's TWS, or that Silthuri isn't scummy.. . .Why again? I'm a tad bit forgetful :x
What measures tips the scales in favor of one or the other, and what value do you put to it that makes them scummy?
As I see it, the only thing that distinguishes TWS from Silthuri or UI in terms of scumminess (they've all been pretty inactive) is that TWS is able to vote (claims to have no idea why). Whereas Silthuri has been inactive and also counterclaimed Toaster with a fairly unconvincing roleclaim.
Tiruin:Other than those in my above post (Reads :I), what about this:Sheepy sheepI didn't see any questions addressed to me. What did you want me to respond to?-snip-No response to me? :(
Misc. thought: The only indication we have that Toaster's control of luck is an auto and not a normal ability (that is, he can choose to use it but if he does he can't use his other stuff) is Toaster himself.Everyone: Recount failures.
It's a counterclaim because I don't honestly think we'd have an endgame dominated by four third parties (two survivors, one sk, one brother) and 3 scum. That would leave only one town, and that's silly, so Silthuri claiming survivor is basically her claiming that Toaster isn't survivor. I think her inactivity is equally as scummy as UI & TWS's is- it's not specifically her being inactive that makes me think she's scummy (it makes me think of all of them as scummy), it's primarily her claim of survivor that singles her out as 'most scum'.And so you're valuing Silthuri OVER TWS/UI?
Misc. thought: The only indication we have that Toaster's control of luck is an auto and not a normal ability (that is, he can choose to use it but if he does he can't use his other stuff) is Toaster himself.Everyone: Recount failures.
Whether or not they've claimed to have a revive should have nothing to do with whether or not I lynch them. If I lynch them, it is because I have decided they are the most scummy, and thus I believe they are scum and should not believe their roleclaims for one instant.So why not play it safer by targeting someone else? If Silthuri is scum, woo. We've uncovered a plot plan. If she's the SK, boo. Game Over. If she's a survivor: Bloop. There goes our weapon for the day.
Let's say, in a hypothetical situation, I knew Toaster's alignment for sure. If he were survivor or SK, it still wouldn't make me think Silthuri was more likely to be telling the truth/lying- I'd still think she was scum.
Tiruin: The blocks on both me N1 and you N2 are consistent with Cheeetar acting both nights. The problem with that theory is that he's claimed both actions failed (which presumably means the auto would not apply).
Okay, so Night is soon. Wondering if i should continue on with the ability checking or keep myself safe.Check either TWS/UI.
I don't have much time today so I'm going to place my vote on Urist. I'll explain why if I get the chance later.(why not TWS ._.)
Hammering Urist Imiknoriss to prevent shenanigans.*SHENANIGANS*
The worst part of all of this is that Shakerag won.This. So much this.
Congrats, Cheeetar.You would probably have caused a lot more WIFOM too.
Dang, the game could have gone so much better for town if I had double KOd in the first day. :P
5 SKs? Seriosuly? Fucker.This.
The worst part of all of this is that Shakerag won.
Why does everyone assume I WON'T screw with you guys?5 SKs? Seriosuly? Fucker.This.
The worst part of all of this is that Shakerag won.
SO WE WERE PLAYING AGAINST SK'S ALL ALONG!?
At least you killed a bunch of SKs.Urist Imiknorris and Cheeetar killed Toaster.
Who killed Nerjin?At least you killed a bunch of SKs.Urist Imiknorris and Cheeetar killed Toaster.
Tiruin killed Silthuri and Mysteriousbluepuppet.
Tiruin and Cheeetar and Mysteriousbluepuppet killed TheWetSheep.
Mysteriousbluepuppet.Who killed Nerjin?At least you killed a bunch of SKs.Urist Imiknorris and Cheeetar killed Toaster.
Tiruin killed Silthuri and Mysteriousbluepuppet.
Tiruin and Cheeetar and Mysteriousbluepuppet killed TheWetSheep.
At least everyone I protected was town.*cough* Toaster *cough*
See, I told you all Cheeetar was bad after his panicked quickhammer of Shakerag, but nooooooooo. We had to be all reasonable and stuff. :POther than 3 unreasonable people in a group, we had FIVE unreasonable people working alone.
Anyway, how was that game?I'd give you a cake but I ate it.
Alignments are random.Anyway, how was that game?I'd give you a cake but I ate it.
I think the thing that surprised me most is that I didn't end up as an SK.
FTFY.Alignments are random.Anyway, how was that game?I'd give you a cake but I ate it.
I think the thing that surprised me most is that I didn't end up as an SK.
Except Shakerag because seriously, fuck Shakerag's roles.
Also, if that was the case, why not make him a mafia-ally? The role you gave him actually gave him a high chance of winning.Alignments are random.Anyway, how was that game?I'd give you a cake but I ate it.
I think the thing that surprised me most is that I didn't end up as an SK.
Except Shakerag because seriously, he always does this to me.
Also, if that was the case, why not make him a mafia-ally? The role you gave him actually gave him a high chance of winning.Eh. I was expecting SKs to be lynched/killed more often.
Okay, maybe mafia-ally would be a little too mean. Fun for WIFOM, but little more. Maybe the brother of one of the sk's? So that they only win with a specific one.
Cheeetar is probably going to die today.
If he's the SK as expected, I'll be mighty surprised if he has any chance of winning.
What an incredible game. So sorry for lying about being your brother, Tiruin! Would everybody call me an even bigger liar if I said that I suspected there was more than one SK (didn't suspect anything on this level, of course.) I didn't want to say that because then everyone would know one of them was me. Also: it is amazing that all the SKs survived until the end. Shakerag must have been so beside himself. This is going to be a great deadchat.Until Webadict spoiled it. In deadchat. :PQuote from: Flabort's Dead ChatCheeetar is probably going to die today.
If he's the SK as expected, I'll be mighty surprised if he has any chance of winning.
It's not very fun to hold the secret of the whole game while watching, especially when it's hilarious.What an incredible game. So sorry for lying about being your brother, Tiruin! Would everybody call me an even bigger liar if I said that I suspected there was more than one SK (didn't suspect anything on this level, of course.) I didn't want to say that because then everyone would know one of them was me. Also: it is amazing that all the SKs survived until the end. Shakerag must have been so beside himself. This is going to be a great deadchat.Until Webadict spoiled it. In deadchat. :PQuote from: Flabort's Dead ChatCheeetar is probably going to die today.
If he's the SK as expected, I'll be mighty surprised if he has any chance of winning.
...yes.The overall fun of watching is certainly more hilarious than the sudden WTF moment at the end.
Unless it's even more fun to keep that secret.
Agreed....yes.The overall fun of watching is certainly more hilarious than the sudden WTF moment at the end.
Unless it's even more fun to keep that secret.
If they have the time to be engaged in the game via deadchat, they can probably afford the time to post as an actual player. It'd be super cool if people could sign up at the start of the game as 'spectators' and never be able to post or have a role but would know what the deadchat and mafiachats etc. were.So, spoil specs? We tend to avoid those, as they leave less interested players in the replacement pool.
If they have the time to be engaged in the game via deadchat, they can probably afford the time to post as an actual player. It'd be super cool if people could sign up at the start of the game as 'spectators' and never be able to post or have a role but would know what the deadchat and mafiachats etc. were.Sometimes people have to replace out for temporary reasons, such as overwhelming homework or surgery or whatnot, but are free later on. They need to replace out so that they don't just leave people hanging for a week or whatever, but when they get back they don't have anything to do, but have investment in the game.
Hahahaha. I underplayed my role, especially considering the setup, and especially since I got called out early on.No. You had all your abilities removed. Which kills you.
So I didn't revive because I was doublekilled?
I am rather annoyed right now. Like... Quite furious at how this went down. I'm not sure if it's the setup or just how it ended up happening. Bah... All I know is that I'm all played out on mafia for a while...I hug your face, and bop your nose, and say you're the best President ever and I had no regrets protecting you.
Good game everyone.
Except Puppet. Fuck puppet.
In the end my enjoyment of this game ranks above The Great Temple. So that's kinda nice.
Waitaminute, how did Toaster lose if he didn't take an action?He was stripped of all of his powers. Thus, he lost his cheaty cheat cheat thing, which specifically stated that "if you lose this, you die"
I had an Auto--doomspeaker :I
Huh, where was he stripped?Waitaminute, how did Toaster lose if he didn't take an action?He was stripped of all of his powers. Thus, he lost his cheaty cheat cheat thing, which specifically stated that "if you lose this, you die"
I had an Auto--doomspeaker :I
...
Ah hell, I'm on the wrong account right now, aren't I?
(Auto) Camouflage: If you do not action, all actions fail against you. If you use an action, players tracking you see nothing. You inspect as Town.
I did it with my godly night action.And Urist Imiknorris said "let Toaster be stripped" and Toaster was stripped. And Urist Imiknorris looked upon it and saw it was good.
I did it with my godly night action.And Urist Imiknorris said "bark TWS bark bark" and Toaster was barked. AndUrist ImiknorrisCheeetar looked upon it and saw it was good.
:P
Oh.I only have up to Day 5 or something:
So how did TWS go?Quote(Auto) Camouflage: If you do not action, all actions fail against you. If you use an action, players tracking you see nothing. You inspect as Town.
Also action list, Webbyweb >:I
Day 1
notquitethere Russian Roulettes flabort (Gambler’s Fallacy to Red)
flabort Spudradic Reproductions
flabort Vote-atos
Shakerag is Lynched
Toaster gains (Auto) Barrel Of Monkeys: This ability does nothing. However, if you lose an Auto ability, this is chosen automatically.
Night 1
flabort Latvian Dreams on Toaster
4maskwolf Plays With Cheeetar [Fails]
Scripten Stings Toaster
Scripten Stings flabort [Fails]
Tiruin Fears flabort [Fails]
Imp Bites Persus13
Mysteriousbluepuppet Bear Hugs Cheeetar [Fails]
Mysteriousbluepuppet Night Eyes 4maskwolf
Cheeetar Narrate flabort Latvian Dream Nerjin {SCP-1689, the Bag of Infinite Potatoes} [Failed name]
Cheeetar Story Control Varee To TolyK
Varee Can We Fixes flabort {Redirected to TolyK}
Varee Builders Toaster {Redirected to TolyK}
Persus13 Nerfs Tiruin
notquitethere Antes Up flabort (Gambler’s Fallacy Vote-ato) [Fails]
Jack A T Settlements TolyK to Tiruin {Filler Ability activates}
IronyOwl Tails Jack A T
TolyK Fills In The Blanks Toaster (alignment) {Doubled to flabort}
Toaster Nones
Nerjin Nones
Silthuri Nones
TolyK receives “Inspect successful. Target is Town.
Inspect successful. Target is Neutral.
You have gained an ability.
(1-Shot, Day) Typographic Error [target]: Remove any number of votes from yourself. Place these votes on the target.”
Tiruin receives “You have lost an ability.
(Auto) Unlucky: You inspect as Mafia.
You have gained an ability.
(Auto) Filler Ability: Every Cycle, you have a 50% chance to lose an ability while you have Filler Ability.”
IronyOwl receives “Target targeted Tiruin and TolyK.”
Mysteriousbluepuppet receives “(Auto) Cute: You’re so adorable, players that target you with kill actions fail the first time.”
Day 2
flabort Lynched
Toaster gains (Auto) Spudradic Reproduction: If you have not been killed within the past 2 Cycles, you Revive if killed.
Night 2
Persus13 is Blocked [Night 1]
Persus13 dies from Bite [Night 1]
Cheeetar Story Controls Varee to TolyK
Cheeetar Narrates Tiruin [Thought] to inspect TolyK [Fails]
Mysteriousbluepuppet Bear Hugs notquitethere
Mysteriousbluepuppet Night Eyes Toaster [Lawless Scavenger]
4maskwolf Plays With notquitethere
notquitethere Ante Ups Mysteriousbluepuppet [Blocked] {Oddly enough, not by Mysteriousbluepuppet!}
Scripten Stings Persus13 [Twice]
Imp Bites Toaster
Persus13 Nerfs Nerjin [Blocked]
Varee Build on notquitethere [Redirected to TolyK]
Varee Can We Fixes TolyK
Tiruin Fears Cheeetar [Fails]
Jack A T Settlements Varee to TolyK {Haha, man, everyone’s giving TolyK everything}
TolyK Fills In The Blanks notquitethere [Alignment]
IronyOwl Tails Varee
Tiruin Filler Abilities [Loses Filler Ability] {Haha}
Toaster Nones
Silthuri Nones
Nerjin Nones
notquitethere dies
Persus13 dies
Toaster gains Gambler’s Fallacy and Shakerag Immunity
Cheeetar, Tiruin Failed
notquitethere, Persus13 Blocked
4maskwolf Grows Up
TolyK gains (2-Shot, Night) All The Facts [target]: Choose one: learn the target’s role name; learn the one of the target’s actions; learn the target’s targets during the Night; OR choose two of the previous AND you are no longer able to use other actions. The second time you use this, this action cannot fail or be blocked, redirect, or randomized, but you die at the end of the following Day.
4maskwolf receives “Your role has changed.
Your role has changed.
4maskwolf
Town
Labrador Retriever Dog
You are a Labrador Retriever Dog. Good job making it to Day 3! That’s a good boy!
(Auto) Circle Of Life: Once per Phase before you action, you may switch between Labrador Retriever Puppy and Labrador Retriever Dog.
(Night) [target]’s Best Friend: You guard the target. If the target is targeted by a kill action, you become the new target.
(1-Shot, Night) All Dogs Go To Heaven: You become the Labrador Retriever God for one Cycle. Afterwards, you die. This ability automatically activates when you die.”
IronyOwl receives “Target actioned TolyK”
Mysteriousbluepuppet receives “Target has (Auto) Lawless Scavenger: Pickings are slim for those that don’t follow the rules. Each time a player dies, you scavenge an ability, removing it from the dead player and [REDACTING] the ability. If this ability is removed, you start following the rules. But, mostly, you die.“
IronyOwl receives “Target actioned TolyK”
Mysteriousbluepuppet receives “Target has (Auto) Lawless Scavenger: Pickings are slim for those that don’t follow the rules. Each time a player dies, you scavenge an ability, removing it from the dead player and [REDACTING] the ability. If this ability is removed, you start following the rules. But, mostly, you die.”
Tiruin receives “You have lost an ability.
(Auto) Filler Ability: Every Cycle, you have a 50% chance to lose an ability while you have Filler Ability.”
Toaster receives “You have gained 2 abilities.
(Auto) Gambler’s Fallacy: You tell Luck what’s what. Any abilities with random factors can be selected any way you want. Yes. ANY.
(Auto) Shakerag Immunity: We felt Shakerag was too powerful, so we changed the way Shakerag works. Shakerag can no longer action you. Ever. Also, if Shakerag is ever voting for you, you cannot be lynched. We feel like this change should really keep Shakerag in line.”
TolyK receives “Target is Town.
You have gained an ability.
(2-Shot, Night) All The Facts [target]: Choose one: learn the target’s role name; learn the one of the target’s actions; learn the target’s targets during the Night; OR choose two of the previous AND you are no longer able to use other actions. The second time you use this, this action cannot fail or be blocked, redirect, or randomized, but you die at the end of the following Day.”
Varee receives “You must choose an ability to give away. If you do not select one within 24 hours, one will be selected at random.”
Day 3
Varee Settles with TolyK (1-Shot, Night) No You Can’t [target]: You kill the target. The target is unable to be revived or protected.
Tiruin Triskaidekaphobias
Cheeetar, TolyK, IronyOwl, Jack A T, Mysteriousbluepuppet, Nerjin, Scripten, Silthuri, Toaster, Varee Panicked
Urist Imiknorris Circle of Lifes back to Puppy Form
Nerjin Pardons Toaster
Varee Lynched
Toaster gains (Auto) Builder: Your unstoppable need to build things causes a random player (including you) is given a random ability that coincides with their role each Night. You may choose to target (excluding you) this as a free action.
Night 3
Urist Imiknorris Plays With Toaster
TolyK Fill In The Blanks Nerjin (Both)
Scripten Stings Jack A T (x2) [Fails]
Tiruin Fears Nerjin
TheWetSheep Bites IronyOwl
Mysteriousbluepuppet Bear Hugs Nerjin [Fails]
Mysteriousbluepuppet Night Eyes Tiruin [Fails
Cheeetar Narrate TolyK No You Can’t TolyK [Fails]
Jack A T Settlements TheWetSheep to Tiruin [Fails]
IronyOwl Follows Mysteriousbluepuppet [Fails]
Toaster Redirects Builder to Himself
Toaster Dies
TolyK Receives “Target is Town. Target used no action.”
Day 4
TolyK Typographical Errors to Scripten all votes
Scripten Lynched
Night 4
Mysteriousbluepuppet Night Eyes TolyK
Nerjin Martial Laws Nerjin [Fails]
TolyK All the Facts Cheeetar [Action] [Fails]
Tiruin Fears Nerjin
Jack A T Settlements TolyK to Tiruin [Fails]
Urist Imiknorris Plays With Toaster
TheWetSheep Bites Jack A T
IronyOwl Tails Nerjin [Fails]
IronyOwl dies
Mysteriousbluepuppet recevies “Target has (Night) Target Rewrite [target]: You randomize the target.”
Toaster receives “You have gained an ability.
(Night) Tail [target]: Curiosity might just kill the catgirl. You track the target, finding out who they target during the Night. Because what else do maids do?”
Day 5
TolyK Lynched
Night 5
Tiruin Fears Nerjin
Toaster Nones
Jack A T Settlements TheWetSheep to Toaster [Blocked]
Nerjin Martial Laws Nerjin
Cheeetar Story Controls Toaster to Toaster
Urist Imiknorris Circle of Lifes
Urist Imiknorris Guards Tiruin
TheWetSheep Nones
Mysteriousbluepuppet Bear Hugs Jack A T
Mysteriousbluepuppet Night Eyes Tiruin [Fear]
Mysteriousbluepuppet Receives “(Night) Fear [target]: If there are currently more than 13 players alive, the target is blocked. If there are less than 13 players alive, the target is protected. If there are exactly 13 players alive, the target is inspected.”
...So how did TWS die?Sheepy died for being a serial killer, and that's all you need to know.
...So how did TWS die?
>:I...So how did TWS die?Sheepy died for being a serial killer, and that's all you need to know.
MBP didn't target TWS......So how did TWS die?
My guess is they actioned during the night, but their 1-shot auto delayed their death until the following day auto-ended (due to MBP's ability). They couldn't post a picture of an octopus to revive with, so, death.
If TWS targets somebody, TWS is then vulnerable to being actioned (only immune if they do nothing). Thus, they can die. TWS died from one of the many mass kills going around (yours, probably?), but the death was delayed due to their one-shot. The day then immediately ended and TWS died for realsies.But it's emphasized that he none'd. He can't be daykilled either given that Camouflage.
Eep. Sorry Wubba :(You were so mean ;_;
Sidenote: The flavour was excellent in general, and specifically at the end (I am biased here.) Being mostly lighthearted and silly was very appreciated.
SKs don't get factional kills, Tiruin.O___O
Poe's law is a marvelous thing.This doesn't apply here, however. It's fully player-based.
- Neutral is Third PartyI called Toaster as SK Day 4 based on this alone. Why did you assume he was a survivor?
So how did I die again? Octopus to my face? :o
Oh. Technicalities.So how did I die again? Octopus to my face? :o
Nope! You and me were the only people left alive in the end- we couldn't lynch each other, and I was immune to your doomspeakery stuff. But I won because SK, and thus you lost :(
Actually, o wanted to kill him just in case, but thought better of it.So what was that big post on how I'm scum?
Good guy TolyK...
Because his role was not an SK role.You had to say 'neutral is benevolent :D'
But yeah. It was.
Because his <claimed> role was not an SK role.
But yeah. It was.
I got that, silly. :P It's that we thought Neutral actually also meant the INTENT [though now looking at a reference {Mephansteras' Paranormal(?)}, its quite plaintive of the assumptions...Because his <claimed> role was not an SK role.
But yeah. It was.
Because his <claimed> role was not an SK role.
But yeah. It was.
The worst part of all of this is that Shakerag won.lol
What would my role have ended up being?Oh right.
i kno, rite?The worst part of all of this is that Shakerag won.lol