Post by: piecewise on July 21, 2015, 11:22:09 pm
Are you curious what it says? Well If it can be deciphered and the correct text sent to me via pm or posted here, I will give the individual or individuals who deciphered it an avatar of war or equivalent cash prize. I'm quite curious to see of anyone can manage it. Keep in mind there is the small possibility of typo due to encoding this by hand.
θΩΩλΔΔΔθΩΩΔλλΔθθθθθλΔΩФΔΩλΩθθλλΔΔθλλФΔλФθθΩΩФλФΔλλФθλΔФθθФΩλΔΔθΔλФФФΩΩθФФФΩΔΔΔλФΔθФΔΔΩθФΩΔλФΔΩθΩΔΔθλλФλ
ΔθФΔλΩФΩФΩλλΔλθθθΩФΔθФθΔФλΩθΔλλФΔΩθλΔλθΔФΔθΔθθΩθФΔФΔΩΩθλθФΔΔΔФλθΩΩΔФФλΩθΩΩΔλФΔΔΩθλΔθФΔФΔλλθФλФΔΩθΩΔΔΔΩ
ФΩλΔθΔΩθθλФФΩλλΔθθθΩλλФθФθλθθΩθΩθФΔΩΔΔλθΩθθθλФΩθλФФΔΩΩΩΩθФΔΔΔФλθΩΩΔФФФΩθΩΩФФΩΔΔΩλФΔλλФΔΩΩФΩΔλФΔΩθΩΔΔ
ΩΩФΔΩλΩФΔλθλФФΩλΩλΩθθθΩФΩθΩФλθΩΩθΩθФΔθθΩλΔΔΩθΔФФΩθΔΔλΔλΩΩΔλФΔθθΩΩФΩФΔΩΩΩΩΩФΔΔΔλλθθΔθΔФλΩΩθФΔλФΔΔΩλФΔ
θλλλΩΔΩФλλΔθλΩλλФΔΔθΔΩΩΩΩФΩλΔΩΔΩΩλλФΔλФΔΔΩλФΩΩФΩФΔФФΩΩλФΔθΔθΔΔΔθФΔθΩФλθθΩθΔΩФΔФΔΩλΔλθΔΩθθФФФΩΩθФΔλФΔ
ΔΔλФΔθФΔλΩΔΩФλλΔλλΩФλΔΔθθλΩΩΩΩФΩλΔθΔΩΩθλФΔλθΔΔΩλΔΔθФΩΔΩΔλθФλФΔθΔθΔΔθλλФθФθФθλФΩΔФΩθθФΔΩФλλФΔΔλФλλλΩФλΩΔ
ФФλΩθΩΩΔλФΔΔΩλФΔΩФΩλΩΔΩФλλΔλФΩλλФΔΩΔФΩΩΔθФΔλΔθΔΩΩθФΔФФΩΔΔθλФΔθλФФΔλλθФλФΔΩθΩΔΔΩθФΔθΩФλθθΩθΩθФΔθθθλΔΔθ
ΔθФФΩΩФλλΔλΩθθλФΔθθΩФФΩθΩΩΔλФΔΔΔλФΔθλФλθθФΩΔФФΩλФΩΩФλλФΔθθθθФΔθФθλΔΔΩФλθλΔΩФΔλθθθФΔΩΔΔФθΩΩθΩΔλФλθθΔΩλλФ
ΔФФΩΩθФФФΩΔΔΔλФΔΩФΔλθθФΩΩΔλФλФΔθΔΩθλΔθθθθФΔλΔΔΔФλФФΩθλФΩθΩΔλФΔФλΩФλθΔθθΩθθΩΩΔλФΔΔΔλФΔΩФΔλθΩλθФΔλθλФΔθΔΔ
λФΔθθΔθФΔλθΩθΔΔλΔΔΩФΩθθθθλΔΔФФθθΩФФΩ
ΔθФΔλΩФΩФΩλλΔλθθθΩФΔθФθΔФλΩθΔλλФΔΩθλΔλθΔФΔθΔθθΩθФΔФΔΩΩθλθФΔΔΔФλθΩΩΔФФλΩθΩΩΔλФΔΔΩθλΔθФΔФΔλλθФλФΔΩθΩΔΔΔΩ
ФΩλΔθΔΩθθλФФΩλλΔθθθΩλλФθФθλθθΩθΩθФΔΩΔΔλθΩθθθλФΩθλФФΔΩΩΩΩθФΔΔΔФλθΩΩΔФФФΩθΩΩФФΩΔΔΩλФΔλλФΔΩΩФΩΔλФΔΩθΩΔΔ
ΩΩФΔΩλΩФΔλθλФФΩλΩλΩθθθΩФΩθΩФλθΩΩθΩθФΔθθΩλΔΔΩθΔФФΩθΔΔλΔλΩΩΔλФΔθθΩΩФΩФΔΩΩΩΩΩФΔΔΔλλθθΔθΔФλΩΩθФΔλФΔΔΩλФΔ
θλλλΩΔΩФλλΔθλΩλλФΔΔθΔΩΩΩΩФΩλΔΩΔΩΩλλФΔλФΔΔΩλФΩΩФΩФΔФФΩΩλФΔθΔθΔΔΔθФΔθΩФλθθΩθΔΩФΔФΔΩλΔλθΔΩθθФФФΩΩθФΔλФΔ
ΔΔλФΔθФΔλΩΔΩФλλΔλλΩФλΔΔθθλΩΩΩΩФΩλΔθΔΩΩθλФΔλθΔΔΩλΔΔθФΩΔΩΔλθФλФΔθΔθΔΔθλλФθФθФθλФΩΔФΩθθФΔΩФλλФΔΔλФλλλΩФλΩΔ
ФФλΩθΩΩΔλФΔΔΩλФΔΩФΩλΩΔΩФλλΔλФΩλλФΔΩΔФΩΩΔθФΔλΔθΔΩΩθФΔФФΩΔΔθλФΔθλФФΔλλθФλФΔΩθΩΔΔΩθФΔθΩФλθθΩθΩθФΔθθθλΔΔθ
ΔθФФΩΩФλλΔλΩθθλФΔθθΩФФΩθΩΩΔλФΔΔΔλФΔθλФλθθФΩΔФФΩλФΩΩФλλФΔθθθθФΔθФθλΔΔΩФλθλΔΩФΔλθθθФΔΩΔΔФθΩΩθΩΔλФλθθΔΩλλФ
ΔФФΩΩθФФФΩΔΔΔλФΔΩФΔλθθФΩΩΔλФλФΔθΔΩθλΔθθθθФΔλΔΔΔФλФФΩθλФΩθΩΔλФΔФλΩФλθΔθθΩθθΩΩΔλФΔΔΔλФΔΩФΔλθΩλθФΔλθλФΔθΔΔ
λФΔθθΔθФΔλθΩθΔΔλΔΔΩФΩθθθθλΔΔФФθθΩФФΩ
Good luck, would-be cryptographers.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on July 21, 2015, 11:24:47 pm
There are only 5 glyphs.
Theta, Omega, Wave, Triangle, and Phi.
From what I see, anyway.
Thus, assuming it translates into English, multiple glyphs must translate into single letters.
Unfortunately I'm not anywhere near a brilliant cryptologist, so I'm going to leave this thread for a while and wish the others luck.
Post by: kisame12794 on July 22, 2015, 12:16:01 am
Post by: Hapah on July 22, 2015, 12:21:10 am
Post by: Empiricist on July 22, 2015, 12:27:09 am
Probably gonna spend waaaaaay too long on this only to discover it's his shopping list, but whatever.I really hope it's shopping list :P
Made some progress. Or some illusion thereof. Probably going to find out that I went in the completely wrong direction and wasted my time :P
Post by: Xantalos on July 22, 2015, 01:41:55 am
Cause I'll do morally questionable things for the right amount of tokens that don't even exist RL.
Post by: Empiricist on July 22, 2015, 02:06:11 am
...what could be considered an equivalent cash prize?167 steamy minutes of armor penetration.
Okay, I noticed that the number of characters was divisible by three. So, supposing that perhaps each trio of characters encoded something, I broke it up into a series of triplets using a stream editor. I then piped it through a sort and uniq -c. The following are my results.
Spoiler: Triplet Series (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Unique Triplets and their Occurrence Rates (click to show/hide)
The other train of thought I pursued was that, perhaps, consecutive repetitions of the same character represent something different to the character by itself. So again, I used stream editor to to break it into individual characters and piped it into uniq -c so that sequences of the character, say, x are instead substituted with nx, where n is the number of times it was repeated. I then did the whole counting thing again. Overall I think this is less likely to be part of the solution than the above triplet approach.
Spoiler: Sequence Series (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Occurrence Rates of Each Sequence (click to show/hide)
Post by: Xantalos on July 22, 2015, 02:40:17 am
thWWlDDDthWWDllDthththththlDWФDWlWththllDDthllФDlФththWWФlФDllФthlDФththФWlDDthDlФФФWWthФФФWDDDlФDthФDDWthФWDlФDWthWDDthllФl DthФDlWФWФWllDlthththWФDthФthDФlWthDllФDWthlDlthDФDthDththWthФDФDWWthlthФDDDФlthWWDФФlWthWWDlФDDWthlDthФDФDllthФlФDWthWDDDW ФWlDthDWththlФФWllDthththWllФthФthlththWthWthФDWDDlthWthththlФWthlФФDWWWWthФDDDФlthWWDФФФWthWWФФWDDWlФDllФDWWФWDlФDWthWDD WWФDWlWФDlthlФФWlWlWthththWФWthWФlthWWthWthФDththWlDDWthDФФWthDDlDlWWDlФDththWWФWФDWWWWWФDDDllththDthDФlWWthФDlФDDWlФD thlllWDWФllDthlWllФDDthDWWWWФWlDWDWWllФDlФDDWlФWWФWФDФФWWlФDthDthDDDthФDthWФlththWthDWФDФDWlDlthDWththФФФWWthФDlФD DDlФDthФDlWDWФllDllWФlDDththlWWWWФWlDthDWWthlФDlthDDWlDDthФWDWDlthФlФDthDthDDthllФthФthФthlФWDФWththФDWФllФDDlФlllWФlWD ФФlWthWWDlФDDWlФDWФWlWDWФllDlФWllФDWDФWWDthФDlDthDWWthФDФФWDDthlФDthlФФDllthФlФDWthWDDWthФDthWФlththWthWthФDthththlDDth DthФФWWФllDlWththlФDththWФФWthWWDlФDDDlФDthlФlththФWDФФWlФWWФllФDththththФDthФthlDDWФlthlDWФDlthththФDWDDФthWWthWDlФlththDWllФ DФФWWthФФФWDDDlФDWФDlththФWWDlФlФDthDWthlDththththФDlDDDФlФФWthlФWthWDlФDФlWФlthDththWththWWDlФDDDlФDWФDlthWlthФDlthlФDthDD lФDththDthФDlthWthDDlDDWФWththththlDDФФththWФФW
Post by: Gentlefish on July 22, 2015, 02:46:25 am
This is gonna be a fun night :D
Post by: Empiricist on July 22, 2015, 02:48:36 am
Post by: Gentlefish on July 22, 2015, 02:53:20 am
Post by: Empiricist on July 22, 2015, 02:56:00 am
Post by: adwarf on July 22, 2015, 03:07:04 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Other than that there's the chance that the greek letters are actually representative of numbers in which case we can derive numbers from the order they appear in the greek alphabet.
Code: (Their Corresponding number if you count through the alphabet) [Select]
Δ - 4
θ - 8
λ - 11
Ф - 21
Ω - 24
Code: ( Their value if you just start from one going through them.) [Select]
Δ - 1
θ - 2
λ - 3
Ф - 4
Ω - 5
Code: (Their value if you take into account both forms of the letter when counting.) [Select]
Δ - 7
θ - 16
λ - 22
Ф - 41
Ω - 47
Edit: Sequences of three won't work, if you quote PW's post it turns out each line of symbols is separated, and does not break up into sequences of three symbols.
Post by: Gentlefish on July 22, 2015, 03:15:36 am
Of course, with a 3-out-of-5 cipher like this, there's 125 total combinations so I might be on the wrong track as well :P
E:
Spoiler: parsed based on triple set, (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: according to this new cipher (click to show/hide)
The numbers are Empiricist's unique matches. Maaayyybeee this will make things a little clearer.
EE:
Spoiler: WOO! Full condensation! (click to show/hide)
E's:
God, I wish I knew whether or not to include punctuation in my markups... There's 75 fucking different patterns to look against.
No wait. There's 69. 15 start delta, 13 theta, 14 lambda, 15 omega, and 12 phi. Sixty-nine separate character matches in -this- cipher alone. I bet you tossed garbage codes in this cipher didn't you, PW?
Lastedit: Dash it all. I'm going to bed. I'm too
onemoreedit edit: Fucking hell. twenty-two 3-char combinations are only used once. Goddamn.
Post by: Skyrunner on July 22, 2015, 07:42:15 am
Graagh.The triangle is probably delta and wave is lambda :P
There are only 5 glyphs.
Theta, Omega, Wave, Triangle, and Phi.
From what I see, anyway.
Thus, assuming it translates into English, multiple glyphs must translate into single letters.
Unfortunately I'm not anywhere near a brilliant cryptologist, so I'm going to leave this thread for a while and wish the others luck.
Post by: Empiricist on July 22, 2015, 08:19:50 am
if you quote PW's post it turns out each line of symbols is separated, and does not break up into sequences of three symbols.I was assuming it was done automatically by a word processor or for presentation rather than being meaningful in any way.
Been a while since I last saw you in an ER thread. Planning on having a crack at the cipher and rejoining with an AoW? :PTheta, Omega, Wave, Triangle, and Phi.The triangle is probably delta and wave is lambda :P
I decided to try using each character as base-5 numbers. Due to Java apparently not liking the greek alphabet I used MS Word to replace all the characters in my triplet sequence with letters from the regular alphabet.
Code: [Select]
Δ = A = 0
θ = B = 1
λ = C = 2
Ф = D = 3
Ω = E = 4
I then shoved it into the following tool I made:
Code: [Select]
import java.util.*;
import java.io.File;
import java.io.PrintWriter;
import java.io.IOException;
public class Cipher
{
public static void main(String[] args) throws IOException
{
String triplet;
int clearnum;
Scanner fileReader = new Scanner(new File("Code.txt"));
PrintWriter writer = new PrintWriter("Clearnum.txt", "UTF-8");
HashMap<Character, Integer> key = new HashMap<Character, Integer>();
key.put('A', 0);
key.put('B', 1);
key.put('C', 2);
key.put('D', 3);
key.put('E', 4);
while(fileReader.hasNextLine())
{
triplet = fileReader.nextLine();
clearnum = 0;
for(int i = 0; i < 3; i++)
{
clearnum += key.get(triplet.charAt(2 - i)) * Math.pow(5, i);
}
writer.println(clearnum);
}
fileReader.close();
writer.close();
}
}
This converts it according to the assumptions I made.The result is as follows:
Code: [Select]
49
50
9
102
51
31
35
115
114
32
50
37
77
81
123
65
63
35
81
97
1
13
94
108
94
0
65
40
21
95
65
109
1
63
51
77
119
97
52
31
115
41
17
105
63
21
52
28
5
34
40
79
107
40
3
59
103
89
49
13
4
35
40
77
58
65
109
0
119
51
21
38
97
51
34
63
41
56
109
40
100
59
31
69
38
79
124
40
3
59
103
94
49
94
4
65
63
24
95
65
109
4
115
114
77
38
97
114
31
119
48
59
109
40
34
50
105
94
25
52
120
65
34
119
79
124
115
2
56
5
89
108
13
4
65
37
70
117
51
72
65
5
124
119
54
24
63
13
4
69
119
78
99
65
26
0
40
48
56
105
115
79
52
29
33
94
108
13
0
65
40
70
117
52
73
50
32
124
119
51
24
38
11
4
50
44
20
58
65
26
1
63
41
82
95
96
40
117
65
13
62
117
103
89
49
13
4
65
119
70
117
52
97
65
103
120
40
51
24
40
94
1
65
38
77
58
65
109
4
40
48
56
109
40
31
50
26
94
117
52
106
65
34
94
49
13
0
65
38
56
95
94
69
117
65
31
40
41
50
117
35
115
56
40
100
84
109
13
56
22
65
94
108
94
0
65
115
56
99
13
65
29
35
31
40
50
17
94
38
109
13
17
117
26
46
49
13
0
65
115
59
58
11
65
25
65
30
40
59
25
50
119
31
35
18
34
94
I hope it is somewhat useful for something. Even if that something is discrediting my triplet theory >__<
Post by: Skyrunner on July 22, 2015, 08:38:26 am
Also, there happens to be 25 unique bigrams in the text. Index of Coincidence is 0.004 which means (1) this isn't a simple substitution cipher (2) I made the wrong assumption about how it is ciphered.
Not very helpful, eh? I doubt that this is going to be cracked quickly or easily :(
Post by: Empiricist on July 22, 2015, 08:40:29 am
Post by: HavingPhun on July 22, 2015, 08:59:14 am
Post by: XXXXYYYY on July 22, 2015, 09:09:33 am
Post by: piecewise on July 22, 2015, 10:35:09 am
...what could be considered an equivalent cash prize?Look at how much an avatar costs.
Cause I'll do morally questionable things for the right amount of tokens that don't even exist RL.
That much.
Post by: Parisbre56 on July 22, 2015, 11:37:20 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gentlefish on July 22, 2015, 03:35:59 pm
I think it's a vigenere (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigen%C3%A8re_cipher) cypher. Fuck me.
Post by: Parisbre56 on July 22, 2015, 03:39:09 pm
Doing some research...Then you should probably try "THE FLESH IS WEAK"
I think it's a vigenere (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigen%C3%A8re_cipher) cypher. Fuck me.
Post by: Gentlefish on July 22, 2015, 03:40:29 pm
Post by: adwarf on July 22, 2015, 03:45:26 pm
Doing some research...Major things of import related to the Doctor: The 'Coordinates', 'Phobetor' who I must add was the reason the Doc got executed in the first place, and 'VonNost'.
I think it's a vigenere (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigen%C3%A8re_cipher) cypher. Fuck me.
Maybe one of them is (Or several) are a key word.
Post by: Beirus on July 22, 2015, 03:54:41 pm
Considering this is most likely the same cipher the serial killer UE found, maybe try "the coming darkness" or something.Doing some research...Major things of import related to the Doctor: The 'Coordinates', 'Phobetor' who I must add was the reason the Doc got executed in the first place, and 'VonNost'.
I think it's a vigenere (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigen%C3%A8re_cipher) cypher. Fuck me.
Maybe one of them is (Or several) are a key word.
Post by: Gentlefish on July 22, 2015, 04:06:52 pm
Post by: kisame12794 on July 22, 2015, 04:41:50 pm
Post by: Gentlefish on July 22, 2015, 04:42:28 pm
Th problem is finding out the rules he used to crack it. Bluh.
Post by: Harry Baldman on July 22, 2015, 04:48:49 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on July 22, 2015, 05:10:58 pm
Post by: Gentlefish on July 22, 2015, 05:50:29 pm
What have you done to me, PW?
Except it can't be a repeating series of bifid ciphers; there's no pattern for that.
Post by: piecewise on July 22, 2015, 06:10:21 pm
Post by: Kriellya on July 22, 2015, 06:12:05 pm
PTWTHERE'S A WATCH/NOTIFY BUTTON! USE IT *ahem*
Yeah, I don't *think* he used a classical cipher. At least, not just a classical cipher.
I mean, if he wanted to be an ass about it, he could have used a One Time Pad, which is a classical cipher, is doable by hand, and which *is* unbreakable when used correctly.
The 5-symbols thing is unusual, as ciphers go. I think that's our biggest hint to figuring this out. Most ciphers use the same characters for the plaintext and ciphertext.
My current assumptions
- The 5 symbols is not just an 'encoding' of characters (we're looking for more than just bi-grams or tri-grams)
- It's not a OTP (unless the pad is something PW has said to us before)
- The separated lines are important. (i.e, each line is 'complete', which means different things depending on the cipher :P For most ciphers, it means that 'characters' and/or 'words' are not split by the end of a line. This kind of reinforces part of the first assumption, since the lines are not all a multiple of 2 or 3.)
Feel free to collaborate or bring in other people from outside the game. Then claim the prize for yourself alone!You say this as if we weren't already doing that. Pretty much the only 'restriction' I've assumed there is about working on this is that asking you questions is useless :P
Post by: AkumaKasai on July 22, 2015, 06:17:44 pm
Feel free to collaborate or bring in other people from outside the game. Then claim the prize for yourself alone!I tried using a vigenere decrypting website. It concluded that it probably used one of 26 equally likely single-letter keywords.
Maybe he encrypted it twice, first with a polyalphabetic method, then with a digram or trigram-based substitution cipher? That might be why he's curious as to whether anyone would be able to crack it at all, and also why the potential reward is so massive.I think he had to have. I'm guessing that bigrams correspond to letters, but from what I know of Piecewise he isn't going to make it anywhere near that simple.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on July 22, 2015, 06:25:04 pm
Post by: Gentlefish on July 22, 2015, 06:32:42 pm
And bluh.
Spoiler: number of chars per line (click to show/hide)
Funny how it comes you to ten lines even. I wonder if it's ten words.
E: Aside from the prime numbers 101 and 103, the only common divisor between the groups is 2. lines 10 and 2 share 3 and 6 as divisors, and lines 10 and 3/4/5 share 4 as a divisor.
Now that I've done a little extra work, I'm actually seeing repeating placements and possible words within the code.
Piecewise, I'm coming for you.
Post by: Empiricist on July 22, 2015, 07:56:53 pm
Post by: Gentlefish on July 22, 2015, 07:59:19 pm
Post by: Toaster on July 22, 2015, 08:08:16 pm
Post by: Empiricist on July 22, 2015, 08:13:57 pm
Post by: Gentlefish on July 22, 2015, 08:14:24 pm
Post by: Kriellya on July 22, 2015, 08:23:36 pm
The watch button only sends you emails, kri :PWhat else does the *PTW* do? I've never seen anything interesting except emails :P
Post by: Gentlefish on July 22, 2015, 08:53:36 pm
E: What's hilarious, while trying to figure out if the last line is a signature, "L O V E D O C T O R V O N N O S T" fits perfectly in a bigram.
EE: ... Using that. Rules may or may not be forming.
Post by: renegadelobster on July 22, 2015, 09:48:57 pm
Post by: Gentlefish on July 22, 2015, 09:50:52 pm
But yes, back to toaster waaay up there about the 25-letter library. i/j often end up as the same glyph in a 5x5 square.
E: well. As hilarious as "Love Doctor VonNost" is, it does not appear to be the key I need to solve this cipher.
Post by: Empiricist on July 22, 2015, 11:21:17 pm
Post by: Skyrunner on July 22, 2015, 11:28:41 pm
... not that it helps in cracking the cipher.
* "that" being 25 unique letters and bigram :P There's an odd number of characters though so that part doesn't fit.
Post by: Hapah on July 22, 2015, 11:45:22 pm
Time to stab wildly at it for an hour before bed!
Post by: Hapah on July 22, 2015, 11:48:11 pm
Post by: Gentlefish on July 22, 2015, 11:50:48 pm
Post by: Hapah on July 23, 2015, 12:47:52 am
Can you confirm if the two bolded sections are correct? Know it's a bit of a PITA to check but it's frustrating me a little. I can pick out the character counts for each tomorrow if it would be helpful.
Spoiler: Mother of All Scrollbars (click to show/hide)
EDIT: Yeah looking for a typo check. If it's not a typo it shoots my working theory to shit.
Post by: Gentlefish on July 23, 2015, 12:53:06 am
...Also can you clarify whether or not the prime number lines (lines 1,6,7,8,9) are meant to be prime numbers? Just making sure it was intentional.
Post by: piecewise on July 23, 2015, 01:05:42 am
Hi Piecewise,
Can you confirm if the two bolded sections are correct? Know it's a bit of a PITA to check but it's frustrating me a little. I can pick out the character counts for each tomorrow if it would be helpful.Spoiler: Mother of All Scrollbars (click to show/hide)
I checked, they're right.
I looked, Hapah, and yes, that appears to be accurate to the front page. Unless you're asking if they're not typos :PNeither confirm nor deny
...Also can you clarify whether or not the prime number lines (lines 1,6,7,8,9) are meant to be prime numbers? Just making sure it was intentional.
Post by: Gentlefish on July 23, 2015, 01:17:36 am
Why do you do this.
Post by: Skyrunner on July 23, 2015, 03:42:58 am
Of course, it failed >_> Might toss in the towel now.
Post by: Hapah on July 24, 2015, 12:38:41 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on July 24, 2015, 12:42:08 pm
Post by: Hapah on July 24, 2015, 12:44:49 pm
Post by: FallacyofUrist on July 24, 2015, 12:45:08 pm
Post by: Hapah on July 24, 2015, 12:46:49 pm
Post by: Doomblade187 on July 24, 2015, 03:48:33 pm
D: Delta
T: Theta
O: Omega
P: Phi
L: Lambda
Spoiler: Transcribed (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Frequency Analysis (click to show/hide)
Post by: Hapah on July 24, 2015, 05:36:21 pm
Post by: Doomblade187 on July 24, 2015, 05:46:04 pm
Post by: Kriellya on July 24, 2015, 05:58:39 pm
Post by: AkumaKasai on July 24, 2015, 07:31:34 pm
Post by: Kriellya on July 24, 2015, 10:25:59 pm
You know, assuming it's even possible to crack. It is possible to make one way ciphers XD
Post by: Doomblade187 on July 25, 2015, 12:02:40 am
Post by: Nikitian on July 25, 2015, 07:00:10 am
... I wonder, does coming to the Doctor's lab and begging and moaning and groaning and wasting his time and grating on his nerves count as social engineering, or rubber hose cryptoanalysis? I mean, if done correctly, it is a sort of mental torture. Highly suicidal, grossly ineffective mental torture.
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on July 25, 2015, 07:10:09 am
... I wonder, does coming to the Doctor's lab and begging and moaning and groaning and wasting his time and grating on his nerves count as social engineering, or rubber hose cryptoanalysis? I mean, if done correctly, it is a sort of mental torture. Highly suicidal, grossly ineffective mental torture.Done to someone who can throw scalpels like bullets and is totally liable to do so.
Post by: Nikitian on July 25, 2015, 07:23:04 am
Yeah, but on Dex battlestimm overdose you can play Neo! And, well, on End overdose you might be able to survive until he gets really annoyed with you. Whether it's a non-disclosive PM from Piecewise with the answers, or a non-disclosive PM from Piecewise with details of your death, you are likely to learn something interesting from this conversation!... I wonder, does coming to the Doctor's lab and begging and moaning and groaning and wasting his time and grating on his nerves count as social engineering, or rubber hose cryptoanalysis? I mean, if done correctly, it is a sort of mental torture. Highly suicidal, grossly ineffective mental torture.Done to someone who can throw scalpels like bullets and is totally liable to do so.
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on July 25, 2015, 07:25:24 am
Well have fun with that.Yeah, but on Dex battlestimm overdose you can play Neo! And, well, on End overdose you might be able to survive until he gets really annoyed with you. Whether it's a non-disclosive PM from Piecewise with the answers, or a non-disclosive PM from Piecewise with details of your death, you are likely to learn something interesting from this conversation!... I wonder, does coming to the Doctor's lab and begging and moaning and groaning and wasting his time and grating on his nerves count as social engineering, or rubber hose cryptoanalysis? I mean, if done correctly, it is a sort of mental torture. Highly suicidal, grossly ineffective mental torture.Done to someone who can throw scalpels like bullets and is totally liable to do so.
I just don't think taking addictive mind-altering drugs in order to criminally annoy a shadowy creature of death is something that should be called 'tactics'.
Post by: Skyrunner on July 25, 2015, 07:51:33 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on July 25, 2015, 09:28:04 am
Edit: So that, for example, ABEnd means "value of A plus value of B" while ACEnd means "value of A minus value of C".
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on July 25, 2015, 02:54:28 pm
Also, perhaps worth noting. The tenth line could be the key. It is 36 characters long, divisible by 9.
Post by: Ozarck on July 29, 2015, 11:58:27 am
Post by: piecewise on July 29, 2015, 06:13:28 pm
can you confirm that the last twelve symbols are correct?Not right now, no. No access to the cipher. But I would assume they are. One mistake maybe but not 12 in a row.
Post by: Kriellya on July 29, 2015, 06:45:51 pm
Post by: Ozarck on July 29, 2015, 08:05:10 pm
No hurry, I know you are out of town and all. If any, I would only think one would be in error, not all twelve. It's more for confirmation anyway. Oh, I am least concerned with a possible changed symbol, and more concerned with a dropped or added one. Possible to confirm correct number of symbols? I'll assume a fully correct cipher until shown otherwise.can you confirm that the last twelve symbols are correct?Not right now, no. No access to the cipher. But I would assume they are. One mistake maybe but not 12 in a row.
The last line is centerset in the OP. Is this how it was written by VonNost? Were the symbols aligned as though in a grid, were they evenly spaced, or were they just sort of crammed into a page in lines? Can we assume that the lines in the OP match the line on the page (as in, nine lines of roughly 102 symbols each and one of 36)?
@Kri, I agree. It's also interesting to see how much people discover or chart out, like the whole trigram/bigram thing, and counting the number of symbols and strings of symbols.
Post by: Hapah on July 30, 2015, 09:56:06 am
Post by: piecewise on July 30, 2015, 10:14:39 am
Number is correct. Spacing is how The Doctor wrote it, though whether or not he had any meaning in that method is up to you to decide.No hurry, I know you are out of town and all. If any, I would only think one would be in error, not all twelve. It's more for confirmation anyway. Oh, I am least concerned with a possible changed symbol, and more concerned with a dropped or added one. Possible to confirm correct number of symbols? I'll assume a fully correct cipher until shown otherwise.can you confirm that the last twelve symbols are correct?Not right now, no. No access to the cipher. But I would assume they are. One mistake maybe but not 12 in a row.
The last line is centerset in the OP. Is this how it was written by VonNost? Were the symbols aligned as though in a grid, were they evenly spaced, or were they just sort of crammed into a page in lines? Can we assume that the lines in the OP match the line on the page (as in, nine lines of roughly 102 symbols each and one of 36)?
@Kri, I agree. It's also interesting to see how much people discover or chart out, like the whole trigram/bigram thing, and counting the number of symbols and strings of symbols.
Post by: Kriellya on July 30, 2015, 10:24:27 am
Post by: NJW2000 on July 30, 2015, 10:27:26 am
Oh, also, with my evidently superior knowledge of what greek letters actually are, I have worked out that a transliteration of the first line might look a bit like:
fooldddfoodlldfffffldo(fi)dolofflldf .... etc.
And what was piecewise messing around with in the latest ER-talk? Something about folding 3-dimensional shapes, I bet! And the first five letters, discounting the extra omaga, look like the word, "fold".
Perhaps "fold" could be some kind of key? Enjoy watching me spending the prize money, suckers!
Post by: Ozarck on July 30, 2015, 10:49:34 am
thooldddthoodlldthththththldothdoloththlldth .... etc.
Phi is 'f' 
Post by: NJW2000 on July 30, 2015, 11:05:24 am
Anyways, after that joke post, think I might be onto something which nobody has mentioned. Can't quite work out how to check quickly, though.
Post by: Hapah on July 30, 2015, 11:07:14 am
"Tha" in modern, right? Might be a bit different in ancient, which I study?I'm pretty handy with a spreadsheet, might be able to help.
Anyways, after that joke post, think I might be onto something which nobody has mentioned. Can't quite work out how to check quickly, though.
Post by: NJW2000 on July 30, 2015, 11:18:59 am
Well, I was wondering if as there are 26 letters in the english language, and the letter uses 5 letters up to 5 times in a row, each letter and number of letters maps onto an english letter: θ being a, for exmaple, omega b, lambda c, delta d and phi e to start with, then θθ being f, θθθ k, etc, getting something like this for the first line:
AGCNAGDUCDBEDBCBFHIAHEDCEFGECEDHEACDEFFEBCIFDCOBNCEDAEIBAEBDCEDBAIAHEC
The most likely possibility, and the analysis so far seems to support this, is that the singles are the 5 most frequent, then the doubles the 6th to 10th in frequency, etc etc. And there is no z or something, I don't like the last letter, and have no idea about spaces. Those might be hurdles to cross later. Anyway, all that needs to happen, as it is simple to do the initial greek-to-english-cipher on this message, is to exchange the singles with e-t-a-o-i in all possible combinations, then the doubles i-n-s-h-r in all combinations. Alternatively, one could simply transliterate the whole message into ciphered english, then use analysis.
While it seems basic for someone who names themselves after a description of a mathematical function, so far, analysis DOES put the singles as the most common 5 letters in the first line, and has a nearly perfectly complete second line as well. Let me know what you think, or if I explained unclearly.
Post by: Hapah on July 30, 2015, 11:31:12 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on July 30, 2015, 11:38:34 am
ABCDE=Letter1 Letter2 Letter3 Letter4 Letter5
AACBB=Letter6 Letter3 Letter7
AAABB=Letter8 Letter 7
Meaning that repeating symbols on the left represent a single letter on the right
Post by: Hapah on July 30, 2015, 11:41:26 am
Post by: Kriellya on July 30, 2015, 11:44:12 am
No, you can't know what they are. How else am I supposed to stall until I actually have time to work on this XD
Post by: Hapah on July 30, 2015, 11:45:40 am
Yeah, there are quite a few things I know about this cipher that I haven't been saying and haven't seen mentioned :PI'm kinda in the same boat, but I'm starting to come to the conclusion that getting part of something is better than getting all of nothing, lol. Not out yet though!
No, you can't know what they are. How else am I supposed to stall until I actually have time to work on this XD
Post by: Kriellya on July 30, 2015, 12:00:05 pm
(I also don't have the patience to setup the proper statistical estimation for automated brute-force, though I could borrow someone else's...)
Post by: NJW2000 on July 30, 2015, 03:17:12 pm
Right. But what I'm saying is, how do you write it if a single-symbol letter is repeated? In your latest example, how do you determine if a sequence is Letter1Letter1 or Letter6?
You wish that PW was a kinder, better person. But if it wasn't that way, it wouldn't be fun at all.
Btw, @ Piecewise, can we ask if there's spaces in the code, or if you removed them?
Post by: Kriellya on July 30, 2015, 03:59:50 pm
Btw, @ Piecewise, can we ask if there's spaces in the code, or if you removed them?I'll answer for him. 'No.' :P
Seriously, if it isn't asking him if something is wrong with the cipher, he probably won't answer.
Honestly, if you think something is wrong with the ciphertext, you are probably wrong. The most likely thing to be wrong would be a typo of some kind, in which case you *should* still be able to get it mostly correct, just with the 'typo' being something weird. And I think it will be incredibly obvious that you have the correct answer, because you won't have garbled kinda-English, you'll have words and phrases that only make sense in the context of ER.
If anything, PW gave away a bit more than he thought with his response to the last time someone wanted to know if the cipher was wrong. Though I don't think it was new information so much as confirming assumptions already made :P
Post by: NJW2000 on July 30, 2015, 04:07:42 pm
Post by: Toaster on July 30, 2015, 04:22:16 pm
Post by: NJW2000 on July 30, 2015, 04:37:25 pm
EDIT: pretty damn sure my way wasn't working. And it looked to be shaping up so well, too. Wonder if I should transcribe the rest of the text for better analysis?
Post by: Nikitian on July 30, 2015, 05:10:31 pm
(Whee! I can contribute something here! :P)
Post by: NJW2000 on July 30, 2015, 05:36:56 pm
I guess you'd miss a letter, though.
EDIT: Here's what all but one letter of the first line gets you:
BHSPGRNAACQXHFCNPMXOAGWXMUNUEHSDOYGEYISOPXQEIOQBDCO
..oh, it's past twelve. Damn you, Piecewise!
Post by: piecewise on July 30, 2015, 09:02:09 pm
Post by: Hapah on July 30, 2015, 09:05:15 pm
Eventually I can give you a hint, but every hint will reduce the prize money.Let us give up before we get a hint, lol. If I can't get anywhere in another week or so I'll share my thoughts. I feel like I still have a couple of decent leads.
Post by: Ozarck on July 30, 2015, 09:07:23 pm
Eventually I can give you a hint, but every hint will reduce the prize money.No! no hints. not or at least like, three more months. Or a year. yeah, a year. I'd rather split the full prize with one or two others than
Post by: Kriellya on July 30, 2015, 11:11:00 pm
Eventually I can give you a hint, but every hint will reduce the prize money.Let us give up before we get a hint, lol. If I can't get anywhere in another week or so I'll share my thoughts. I feel like I still have a couple of decent leads.
Ditto. I have leads, just no time to work on them :P
Post by: NJW2000 on July 31, 2015, 03:26:54 am
EDIT: has anyone actually done the separate-it-into-2-letter-bigrams, then have each of those represent one letter?
Post by: Gentlefish on July 31, 2015, 04:16:59 am
Post by: NJW2000 on July 31, 2015, 04:35:34 am
Post by: Urist McCoder on August 01, 2015, 05:53:33 pm
Post by: Urist McCoder on August 01, 2015, 07:03:47 pm
Post by: Harry Baldman on August 08, 2015, 05:57:31 am
Quote from: Guy who apparently cracked it
"17.3 degrees, 18th radian."
I think this might be relevant somehow. Might be that the cipher has numbers and letters in it (thus requiring adjustments to the frequency analyses). Or the phrase SEVENTEEN POINT THREE DEGREES, EIGHTEENTH RADIAN or some permutation thereof in it, which'd be a stroke of luck if it were. In any case, of all known pieces of information, this one seems likeliest to be in there somewhere or at least related to decrypting it.
Maybe that helps, I dunno. Could slot in other ominous plot words in there, like the previously suggested Project Origin and Phobetor in combination with this.
Post by: Nunzillor on August 08, 2015, 11:48:18 am
Post by: Nikitian on August 08, 2015, 12:02:14 pm
Oh, the Fun if it is, say, in an Arabic language (one of). Because the Doctor is connected to the Wayfarers, and could possibly be just quoting and commenting a passage from their holy texts. ;)
(No, I really really hope it's not the matter here, or we probably won't ever crack it. I mean, even more "won't ever crack it" than we currently have it.)
Post by: piecewise on August 08, 2015, 12:33:45 pm
Post by: Harry Baldman on August 08, 2015, 12:34:41 pm
Post by: Urist McCoder on August 08, 2015, 01:40:37 pm
Mi ne parolas multajn lingvojnis that irony, I detect.
Post by: Ozarck on August 08, 2015, 02:08:35 pm
I don't think esperanto is a ferrous language, but I'm no expert.Mi ne parolas multajn lingvojnis that irony, I detect.
Post by: Toaster on August 09, 2015, 08:36:33 am
Post by: NJW2000 on August 09, 2015, 07:41:51 pm
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Post by: Ozarck on August 09, 2015, 09:11:14 pm
I think we all are trying to hoard our information a bit, since it's such a big prize. Few of us would be satisfied to post a lot of clues, only to have someone else snatch them up and post the answer right at the end. that's why I think making small teams or partnerships which would split the prize amongst themselves would be a good idea - share resources, double or triple efficiency, and still claim a sizeable chunk should your team break the code first.
The other option is for PW to declare that only posts in this thread which contributed to a solution discovered by a thread member would be rewarded - posts which discovered key clues, or definitively ruled out methods or processes. That would be a lot more challenging for PW to arbitrate, though, I think :P so, teams is still probably the better option.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on August 13, 2015, 09:15:32 am
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on August 13, 2015, 09:22:08 am
Post by: piecewise on August 13, 2015, 10:44:43 am
Question: what would happen if someone who wasn't currently playing ER won the prize?They would get 50 tokens. I suppose they could either then start playing, or just hand them out like a snooty patron, paying money to those that amuse them.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on August 24, 2015, 02:38:58 pm
So... each symbol is a letter in the greek alphabet! Which means nothing.
~~~
You and freeformschooler ought to have a crypt-off.
Post by: NJW2000 on August 24, 2015, 03:34:15 pm
If anyone needs help translating greek, I can give a bit.
Post by: Urist McCoder on August 24, 2015, 03:37:20 pm
Post by: Urist McCoder on August 24, 2015, 03:55:02 pm
Code: [Select]
[ 'θΩΩλΔΔΔθΩΩ',
'λΔθθθθθλΔΩФΔΩλΩθθλλΔΔθλλФ',
'ФθθΩΩФλФ',
'λФθλΔФθθФΩλΔΔθ',
'ФФФΩΩθФФФΩΔΔ',
'ФΔθФΔΔΩθФΩ',
'ФΔΩθΩΔΔθλλФλΔθФ',
'ΩФΩФΩλλ',
'θθθΩФΔθФθΔФλΩθ',
'λФΔΩθλ',
'θΔФΔθΔθθΩθФΔФΔΩΩθλθФΔΔΔФλθΩΩΔФФλΩθΩΩ',
'ФΔΔΩθλΔθФΔФ',
'λθФλФΔΩθΩΔΔΔΩФΩλΔθΔΩθθλФФΩλλΔθθθΩλλФθФθλθθΩθΩθФΔΩΔ',
'θΩθθθλФΩθλФФΔΩΩΩΩθФΔΔΔФλθΩΩΔФФФΩθΩΩФФΩΔΔΩλФ',
'λФΔΩΩФΩ',
'ФΔΩθΩΔΔΩΩФΔΩλΩФ',
'θλФФΩλΩλΩθθθΩФΩθΩФλθΩΩθΩθФΔθθΩλΔΔΩθΔФФΩθΔ',
'',
'ΩΩ',
'ФΔθθΩΩФΩФΔΩΩΩΩΩФΔΔ',
'λθθΔθΔФλΩΩθФ',
'ФΔΔΩλФΔθλλλΩΔΩФλλΔθλΩλλФΔΔθΔΩΩΩΩФΩλΔΩΔΩΩλλФ',
'ФΔΔΩλФΩΩФΩФΔФФΩΩλФΔθΔθΔΔΔθФΔθΩФλθθΩθΔΩФΔФΔΩλ',
'θΔΩθθФФФΩΩθФ',
'ФΔΔ',
'ФΔθФ',
'ΩΔΩФλλ',
'λΩФλΔΔθθλΩΩΩΩФΩλΔθΔΩΩθλФ',
'θΔΔΩλΔΔθФΩΔΩ',
'θФλФΔθΔθΔΔθλλФθФθФθλФΩΔФΩθθФΔΩФλλФΔ',
'ФλλλΩФλΩΔФФλΩθΩΩ',
'ФΔΔΩλФΔΩФΩλΩΔΩФλλ',
'ФΩλλФΔΩΔФΩΩΔθФ',
'ΔθΔΩΩθФΔФФΩΔΔθλФΔθλФФ',
'λθФλФΔΩθΩΔΔΩθФΔθΩФλθθΩθΩθФΔθθθλΔΔθΔθФФΩΩФλλ',
'ΩθθλФΔθθΩФФΩθΩΩ',
'ФΔΔ',
'ФΔθλФλθθФΩΔФФΩλФΩΩФλλФΔθθθθФΔθФθλΔΔΩФλθλΔΩФ',
'θθθФΔΩΔΔФθΩΩθΩ',
'ФλθθΔΩλλФΔФФΩΩθФФФΩΔΔ',
'ФΔΩФ',
'θθФΩΩ',
'ФλФΔθΔΩθλΔθθθθФ',
'ΔΔΔФλФФΩθλФΩθΩ',
'ФΔФλΩФλθΔθθΩθθΩΩ',
'ФΔΔ',
'ФΔΩФ',
'θΩλθФ',
'θλФΔθΔ',
'ФΔθθΔθФ',
'θΩθΔ',
'ΔΔΩФΩθθθθλΔΔФФθθΩФФΩ' ]
as you can see there is only one place where it repeats that shows up as "",
Post by: Urist McCoder on August 24, 2015, 04:02:23 pm
EDIT:oops missed one lower case theta
Post by: NJW2000 on August 24, 2015, 04:03:41 pm
Post by: Urist McCoder on August 24, 2015, 04:17:38 pm
Post by: Hapah on August 24, 2015, 11:18:32 pm
Post by: Urist McCoder on August 25, 2015, 05:38:17 am
Post by: NJW2000 on August 25, 2015, 05:40:40 am
Post by: Urist McCoder on August 25, 2015, 05:43:37 am
Post by: Urist McCoder on August 25, 2015, 05:56:50 am
Post by: NJW2000 on August 25, 2015, 06:06:29 am
The 5x5 thing could be relevant if it really was in greek, as at least one of ancient and modern greek has 24 letters, and with 1 for space, it COULD just be digrams corresponding to words which must be translated. This doesn't seem particularly likely, but still.
If anyone needs help translating greek, I can give a bit.
It's not as simple as that, several people tried very quickly. That would just be a substitution cipher with pairs rather than single letters. I'm wondering if it could be in greek, as their alphabet is better for that.
Post by: Urist McCoder on August 25, 2015, 06:17:40 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on August 25, 2015, 08:43:28 am
Post by: NJW2000 on August 25, 2015, 09:15:27 am
Post by: Urist McCoder on August 25, 2015, 11:03:04 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on August 25, 2015, 11:21:44 am
No they can be pairs look at the link I posted earlierCan you pair an odd number of things? Because there's an odd number of symbols there.
Unless I've miscounted or you're suggesting part of the message is the key.
Post by: Urist McCoder on August 25, 2015, 11:50:29 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on August 25, 2015, 11:54:57 am
Can the above be an encoded message that uses pairs?
Post by: Urist McCoder on August 25, 2015, 01:46:19 pm
Post by: piecewise on August 27, 2015, 12:36:09 pm
Post by: Ozarck on August 27, 2015, 12:38:00 pm
How close are we to needing a hint?about eleven months.
Edit: I haven't had a lot of time or brainpower lately, but I am working on it again.
Post by: HavingPhun on August 29, 2015, 06:54:51 pm
How close are we to needing a hint?about eleven months.
Edit: I haven't had a lot of time or brainpower lately, but I am working on it again.
I agree with this, I think we should still wait some time. This isn't going to be an easy thing. I suppose this might also matter to some people. How much would the prize be reduced token wise, if you gave this hint?
Post by: piecewise on August 29, 2015, 07:32:17 pm
Depends on the level of the hint. Something very vague might reduce it by like 3-5 tokens. Something blatant would be like half.How close are we to needing a hint?about eleven months.
Edit: I haven't had a lot of time or brainpower lately, but I am working on it again.
I agree with this, I think we should still wait some time. This isn't going to be an easy thing. I suppose this might also matter to some people. How much would the prize be reduced token wise, if you gave this hint?
Post by: Egan_BW on August 29, 2015, 09:32:23 pm
Post by: Empiricist on August 29, 2015, 09:34:23 pm
Post by: NJW2000 on August 30, 2015, 03:52:55 am
Post by: Hapah on September 30, 2015, 02:49:32 pm
Post by: NJW2000 on September 30, 2015, 02:50:54 pm
Post by: Hapah on September 30, 2015, 03:20:18 pm
Thanks, I'll remind the clever person I asked.Cool. Anyone else? Thinking of showing my hand and letting you lot weigh in, maybe we can get somewhere if we're all stuck.
Post by: Ozarck on September 30, 2015, 03:40:13 pm
some obvious conclusions I drew a while back:
It's not a substitution cipher
There are at least six strings of symbols of at least eight symbols in length (I think I found eight or ten so far) that repeat. They do not repeat in a noticeable pattern (i.e. in periods of 36 or 40 symbols).
If it's a trigram cipher, there are 74 combinations in use, which means it's not a simple trigram to English alphabet thing. If it's a Baconian cipher then it is still not a direct code to alphabet cipher - there are more combinations than 26 in use. Also, someone above mentioned that certain letters were upper and certain ones were lower case. I believe they made a mistake, and the phi is lowercase.
Skip sequencing has yet to reveal a skip length that yields better results than the no-skip text.
The adfgx cipher is a good possibility, what with the way it scrambles text after translating it to five symbols. the main issue is the number of symbols - there should be an even number, there are an odd number.
My current suspicion is that it is either a scrambled trigram cipher, or that it is a trigram or baconian cipher that uses more symbols than the English alphabet.
It's been a while, so that's all I remember off the top of my head, except for the patterns I found, but I am not posting them yet, not without some added input from someone else. not that they are hard to find anyway, all that takes is patience and word-search talent. Or a simple program that compares substrings.
Post by: Hapah on September 30, 2015, 06:29:30 pm
I don't know how you guys went at it, but I'll let you know how I started. The first thing I did, after copying the text down and breaking it up into bigrams and trigrams, was to spend a little bit thinking about how Piecewise would design a cipher. I know he's not a fool, and I know he isn't gonna do anything quick and easy like a direct substitution cipher. However, I don't think he's a crypto expert or anything, so I imagine one of his first actions was to look up common ciphers, and more importantly, common methods for breaking ciphers. If he's cooking up his own cipher from scratch, he will include in the encryption process some way to counter these common methods. A little Google searching led me to believe that the most common ways to break codes were frequency analysis (i.e. the letter that appears the most is likely "E", the next most common is "T" and so on) and doubles (like the "O" in Doomarms), a letter that is repeated back-to-back.
I also know that Piecewise is clever and values cleverness, and that the cipher is likely not complex simply for the sake of complexity: he wouldn't encrypt the thing in such a way that the only way to crack it would be to brute-force it. I imagine that the cipher is likely a short set of rules (or perhaps even a single rule) that you follow when encrypting the text, and I bet the key to the cipher fits easily enough on a single sheet of paper. I don't think it'd be the kind of cipher where you have to know or guess a particular key word or anything like that, you just have to figure out the rules, and the cipher will likely be easy to use when encrypting or decrypting a message.
So! After doing this, I sat down and actually looked at the text with the following thoughts in mind:
- The cipher will likely not be mechanically complex.
- The cipher will likely contain some measure to foil frequency analysis
- The cipher will likely contain some measure to foil "doubles"
I did a very quick search, and it appears I might be right on bullet 3 if the list is in trigrams: no 3-symbol string is ever repeated immediately after itself. Frequency analysis definitely yielded some outliers (λФΔ appears 26 times, θФΔ 18, ΔλФ 12, and ФФΩ 14 times, with the other 70 combinations appearing a single-digit number of times).
My first theory was that the text is broken up into trigrams, and that it was composed of multiple (4) different substitution ciphers. In this scenario, the cipher being used would be changed when a double was encountered, and the triple symbols (θθθ, ΔΔΔ, etc) were not text in and of themselves, but rather the signal to move to a particular cipher when decrypting the text. This had several things going for it, in my opinion:
- It was a simple mechanism to keep letters from repeating in the text, one that I could certainly see Piecewise inventing
- It also breaks frequency analysis, as your "E" can now appear as four different combinations of symbols
- Encrypting the text by hand would be as simple as having a column for each of the ciphers, and moving to the relevant column when the signal comes. It is very easy to use.
As an added bonus, if the message is in fact signed "VonNost", this fit cleanly: the last 18 characters were ΩФΩθθθθλΔΔФФθθΩФФΩ, with the bold added just to make the 3-groups more visible. ΩФΩ would be "N" in a cipher, θθθ tells you to move to a new cipher, and the next 12 characters correspond to 4 letters (the "Nost" in a different cipher). It was also helped by the fact that some strings repeated several times (as Ozarck pointed out), and these strings seem to behave in consistent, predictable ways. For example, the string "ΔλФΔΔΔλФΔ" is repeated multiple times, and "ΔλФΔΔΔ" was ALWAYS followed by "λФΔ" every time it appears in the text.
Alas, it is not that simple (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=152113.msg6391373#msg6391373): the same 3-symbol input gives a different 3-symbol output with the same cipher-change signal (ΩΩΩ). Also, there were two instances where a cipher change was called to the same cipher (i.e. you're on the ΔΔΔ cipher and the symbol comes to go to the ΔΔΔ cipher). I suppose there could be a special rule to just move a column over if this occurs, but it still doesn't fix the first issue. Could be that the ΩΩΩ and possibly the λλλ are special cases and behave differently (θθθ and ΔΔΔ appear 8 and 7 times respectively, ΩΩΩ 4 times and λλλ only once), but I haven't tried to examine what those special cases could be yet. Could also be that I'm just missing something obvious, give me your thoughts!
I feel like I'm onto something, but I'm just missing a lever or trigger or something like that (though everyone thinks they're onto something until conclusively proven wrong, myself included, lol). My current thinking is that the triple signals (θθθ, ΔΔΔ, etc) are not signals to move to a particular column or cipher, but could instead be a signal to move over a particular number of columns in Piecewise's cipher-sheet (i.e. "go right one column", "go left two columns", etc.) Haven't been able to piece together what values for the triples make things sync up (and it's entirely possible that I'm barking up the wrong tree anyway), but there you are!
So! What do you lot have? Any thoughts on this, or your own theories?
Post by: Urist McCoder on September 30, 2015, 07:34:13 pm
Post by: Gentlefish on September 30, 2015, 07:41:56 pm
Post by: Hapah on September 30, 2015, 07:43:51 pm
don't have to represent spaces.That's my thinking. I suppose it's possible there is a symbol for spaces, but it's not required.
Post by: Urist McCoder on September 30, 2015, 07:44:50 pm
Post by: Hapah on September 30, 2015, 07:47:11 pm
Makes sense, so is the current consensus that it is signed love doctor vonnostI'm only banking on "VonNost", personally. And even that isn't guaranteed: I just took it as a hopeful sign for my little theories that the crowd-favorite signature fits fine.
Post by: Ozarck on September 30, 2015, 07:48:51 pm
Makes sense, so is the current consensus that it is signed love doctor vonnostNo. I see no real evidence of this. if yo ucan parse out the rest of the text based on this, do so, but I doubt it.
Besides, who was he writing to? probably himself. I doubt this code was meant for any other eyes. You can ask PW, but I doubt you'll get a useful answer.
Post by: Hapah on September 30, 2015, 07:54:13 pm
With 74 unique trigrams, it's possible to have three separate trigrams represent each letter.Wouldn't the ceiling for 3 seperate trigrams be 26*3 = 78? Though not every one will show up 3 times: I doubt we caught a "Z" and "X" in each cipher, for example.
I suspect that some trigrams might be in multiple ciphers as well, i.e. ФФΩ is "B" in cipher one and "X" in cipher two. There's all sorts of wrinkles.
Post by: piecewise on September 30, 2015, 08:26:24 pm
Because I'm a sucker for flattery.
You're right about the key,
and its relative brevity.
Post by: Hapah on September 30, 2015, 08:29:43 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on September 30, 2015, 08:31:07 pm
It could be an unused character (noise, for no real reason other than to confuse would-be codebreakers?), or perhaps it represents some sort of special character?
To be honest, I am very out of my depth here. My depth, in this case, is ROT13.
Did we try plugging in that signature, seeing if we get anything meaningful out? I mean, we have a few common letters there.
Do we KNOW he was writing to himself?
Piecewise probable confirm of the Love Doctor VonNost theory?
Wait, brevity.
Key = VonNost. Now what.
Would...Hm. This is ENTIRELY random but MAYBE it's VonNost + (or -, capital/lowercase) the letter values, plusminus the actual ciphertext?
Post by: Hapah on September 30, 2015, 08:34:06 pm
Post by: Toaster on September 30, 2015, 10:58:51 pm
1) There is a key
2) It's not long
1 is probably more of a clue than 2.
Post by: Nikitian on October 01, 2015, 04:29:31 am
That confirms two things, really:
1) There is a key
2) It's not long
1 is probably more of a clue than 2.
Actually, to these points raised by that hint, I would add the following (not quite so certain, unlike the first two, of course):
3)Rhyming might matter (i.e. an answer to "why that particular formatting?")
4)"I am a sucker for flattery" - was there much explicit "flattery" in the last few posts? I don't think so (well, there was some, but I doubt it was enough to warrant a free hint just of itself), so we might actually be up against the point of "wow, guys, I am flattered that you expect such exquisite encrypting madness from me, but I'm afraid it actually wasn't there" - i.e. we're reached the point of overcomplicating the answer
Also, since no one mentioned it so far, I believe, calling out the possibility of the "signature" including "[Firstname] VonNost" or even just "[Firstname]". Was his name ever mentioned anywhere? I don't think so, but being a fruit hanging so low, I wouldn't put it past Piecewise not to troll our efforts this way (and/or use this opportunity to conveniently tell us his name, but that's a whole different purpose, of course). After all, "You did not ask" is another (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=135884.msg6292713#msg6292713) oldest trick in the book, isn't it? :P
Post by: TheBiggerFish on October 01, 2015, 04:48:37 am
You won't get anything that specific out of him. It's best not to focus on that bit too heavily anyway: even if you knew what the letters that corresponded to the last handful of letters meant, you still don't have a meaningful way to apply that to the rest of the document.Like I said, random theory. And probably silly.
As for overcomplication...Entirely possible. I still think it references Hapah, but I really have no idea.
Post by: Ozarck on October 01, 2015, 07:27:13 am
4)"I am a sucker for flattery" - was there much explicit "flattery" in the last few posts? I don't think so (well, there was some, but I doubt it was enough to warrant a free hint just of itself), so we might actually be up against the point of "wow, guys, I am flattered that you expect such exquisite encrypting madness from me, but I'm afraid it actually wasn't there" - i.e. we're reached the point of overcomplicating the answerHapah called him clever and said he values cleverness. His entire post was somewhat praising in tone toward PW and his methodology.
However, I think PW wants this cracked. He's nudged us at least twice before.So the free hint was both a "shucks, you ol' charmer you," and a "come on guys, get on with it."
Post by: piecewise on October 01, 2015, 10:06:11 am
Post by: Urist McCoder on October 01, 2015, 11:06:40 am
Post by: Hapah on October 01, 2015, 11:07:17 am
Did Doctor vonost do anything with the theory of relativity, such as time travel expirementsNo idea. Where are you heading with that line of thought?
Post by: Urist McCoder on October 01, 2015, 11:08:05 am
Post by: Hapah on October 01, 2015, 11:37:18 am
Let me know when you want an actual hint. It's been a few months, I think.Not just yet. Got a new theory that I wanna work on a little.
Post by: Hapah on October 02, 2015, 10:03:09 pm
How many tokens get shaved off the prize for a hint? Or can we ask for a specific amount deducted and get a hint worth about that much?
Post by: piecewise on October 03, 2015, 12:05:18 am
Aaaargh stupid cipher. Well, smart cipher: I can't get into it!I can choose an amount or you can. Either way.
How many tokens get shaved off the prize for a hint? Or can we ask for a specific amount deducted and get a hint worth about that much?
Post by: Hapah on October 03, 2015, 01:22:37 pm
I'm thinking 5 or 10 token's worth.
Post by: NJW2000 on October 03, 2015, 01:41:28 pm
Basically, what if the commonest trigrams were spaces, full stops, and commas? Or other punctuation? Just like PW to encrypt something with Brackets, for example, I'm guessing...
And the rest (because nobody needs x) were bigrams, representing a single letter?
Would this work? Totally taking most of the credit if I'm right.
Post by: Ozarck on October 03, 2015, 04:09:46 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on October 03, 2015, 04:53:59 pm
Post by: Tomasque on October 03, 2015, 05:04:21 pm
Post by: Ozarck on October 03, 2015, 05:08:08 pm
What if it's a simple substitution cypher, where each letter changes to a new alphabet and if put one next to another, the first letter of each alphabet forms VonNost?a simple substitution cipher from a five symbol text?
Post by: NJW2000 on October 03, 2015, 05:21:57 pm
I'd follow up my trigram = punctuation, bigram = letter idea, but am just too tired, tbh. But the trigram that comes up like 23 times, marked as 14 on the first page, has a delta in between two iterations, three times, so this may be important. Like, very, I'll probably have another crack tomorrow.
Post by: Parisbre56 on October 03, 2015, 07:57:24 pm
Why 5? Depending on if you're taking two or three letter combinations it's more than that. I know it's unlikely, but if we're just saying whatever comes to mind, I just thought I'd just say what I thought and maybe hopefully if I'm lucky and the stars align inspire someone to come up with a solution.What if it's a simple substitution cypher, where each letter changes to a new alphabet and if put one next to another, the first letter of each alphabet forms VonNost?a simple substitution cipher from a five symbol text?
I meant something like assign each letter combination a number and then pass the n-th combination of letters through the n-the alphabet and replace the letter with the number with the appropriate letter.
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
1 V O N N O S T
2 W P O O P T U
3 X Q P P Q U V
etc.
Post by: Ozarck on October 03, 2015, 08:41:49 pm
You describe something like a vignere Cipher. Edit: brainlock. can't think right now.
Post by: piecewise on October 04, 2015, 10:30:50 am
Well, what amount of token hint do you guys want? Or am I the only person still working on this any significant amount?
I'm thinking 5 or 10 token's worth.
So is the lack of response about this a no to the hint?
Post by: NJW2000 on October 04, 2015, 10:54:27 am
Post by: TheBiggerFish on October 04, 2015, 11:19:27 am
Hold on the hint for a bit, guys? I might have a lead, though I doubt it. I also can't get near the clever person I asked for another 24 hours or so.+1.
I'm gonna throw this at people, see if they can get anything.
Post by: Hapah on October 04, 2015, 09:21:02 pm
Post by: Gentlefish on October 04, 2015, 09:25:27 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on October 04, 2015, 09:36:40 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on October 04, 2015, 09:46:59 pm
49 token hint.No.
Post by: Hapah on October 04, 2015, 09:54:58 pm
Post by: Empiricist on October 04, 2015, 11:20:22 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on October 05, 2015, 02:26:58 am
Post by: Gentlefish on October 05, 2015, 02:55:02 am
Post by: Hapah on October 05, 2015, 09:10:14 pm
Post by: piecewise on October 11, 2015, 11:44:29 am
On this page (50 post per page mode at least) someone has said something that is fairly vital in the process of deciphering this code. So someone here has the right idea already; you just need to go with it.
Post by: Moopli on October 11, 2015, 12:37:22 pm
Post by: Ozarck on October 11, 2015, 01:50:25 pm
Wait, someone might actually solve it within a week with a hint, and then I won't have time to give it to the cipher-genius I know and take the credit :(
Spoiler: things people said in the 50ppp page PW mentioned (click to show/hide)
I believe these are all the things of substance that was said on this fifty post page, before PW's hint. I exclude things such as Hapah asking if anyone else were working on this, and discussion such as how many tokens a hint could be, as well as other seemingly irrelevant data. I think I was a little generous with what I allowed as relevant, but there's no point excluding possible things at the start. If you feel that I missed something someone said that might fit, please say so.
Spoiler: some evaluation of the possibilities (click to show/hide)
Hey PW, what was VonNost's first name?
Post by: NJW2000 on October 11, 2015, 01:52:43 pm
Probably won't work.
Post by: Hapah on October 11, 2015, 09:10:17 pm
Thanks for compiling all the stuff, Oz!
Post by: piecewise on October 11, 2015, 10:22:22 pm
45 token prize still remains.
Post by: Hapah on October 11, 2015, 10:36:12 pm
Post by: NJW2000 on October 12, 2015, 01:27:01 pm
Post by: Hapah on October 12, 2015, 02:08:37 pm
Post by: Ozarck on October 12, 2015, 04:04:47 pm
Has ayone done trigrams with spaces as one trigram? Stupid question, I know. But has anyone?you do this. you are the one insistant on spaces and punctuation. do the work and present the results.
Post by: NJW2000 on October 12, 2015, 04:18:26 pm
Post by: Hapah on October 13, 2015, 06:04:06 pm
Any developments, other Cipher people?
Post by: Ozarck on October 13, 2015, 06:33:17 pm
I wonder how long it'll take me to crack this if I look at it for 20 or 30 minutes a day for the rest of forever, lol.none yet. I got a new computer and have been transferring stuff and doing other games and stuff. Plus, I was waiting to see if more conversation would occur after my compilation. I was hoping to do more of the work in thread ... sorry.
Any developments, other Cipher people?
Post by: Gentlefish on October 13, 2015, 08:59:11 pm
Post by: Hapah on October 14, 2015, 09:41:07 pm
Post by: piecewise on October 14, 2015, 10:46:08 pm
Well, if you lot want to chew on it a while, how does next hint on Halloween sound? That's October 31st, two weeks from this Saturday.Spooky
Post by: Hapah on October 14, 2015, 10:49:47 pm
Too spooky?Well, if you lot want to chew on it a while, how does next hint on Halloween sound? That's October 31st, two weeks from this Saturday.Spooky
Post by: DoctorMcTaalik on October 14, 2015, 10:59:08 pm
Post by: Hapah on October 14, 2015, 11:03:54 pm
2encrypted4meThis thing is pretty scary.
Post by: spazyak on October 28, 2015, 03:50:23 pm
Post by: piecewise on October 31, 2015, 11:30:46 am
Well, if you lot want to chew on it a while, how does next hint on Halloween sound? That's October 31st, two weeks from this Saturday.
Another hint huh? 5 tokens worth?
Post by: Hapah on October 31, 2015, 11:34:29 am
Post by: piecewise on October 31, 2015, 02:43:30 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on October 31, 2015, 02:44:05 pm
No one seems to be objecting
Post by: piecewise on October 31, 2015, 03:21:01 pm
After my past hint Ozarck compiled a list of things he thought were more or less likely.
The thing I was talking about was actually one of the ones on the "Less Likely" list.
Post by: Kedly on October 31, 2015, 05:33:47 pm
Post by: Ozarck on October 31, 2015, 06:28:40 pm
Post by: Nikitian on October 31, 2015, 06:42:53 pm
Alternatively, baconian cipher, I guess. Mostly because I don't think that Piecewise would require us to have Medical Knowledge to solve this cipher (he's torturous, but he's also generous). Not sure about punctuation, but I think someone already mentioned its unlikeliness, so here is that.
Post by: NJW2000 on October 31, 2015, 06:44:21 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on November 05, 2015, 07:49:01 pm
Post by: Hapah on November 05, 2015, 08:20:15 pm
Post by: Ozarck on November 05, 2015, 09:18:05 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on November 17, 2015, 06:51:57 am
Post by: Ozarck on November 17, 2015, 07:55:26 am
Edit: I may have made some progress this morning. I still have a way to go though, but some of what I checked had a different type of result than I have been getting to this point. I'll look more this evening.
Post by: NJW2000 on November 17, 2015, 11:53:28 am
Post by: Ozarck on November 26, 2015, 03:53:15 am
Post by: chaotic skies on January 02, 2016, 04:00:22 am
Do not try to prove yourself correct. Try to prove yourself wrong; if you do, you can move on, and eventually figure this out. But if you can't prove yourself wrong, then you may be on to something.
Just sayin'
Post by: Urist McCoder on February 01, 2016, 05:30:53 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on February 10, 2016, 12:11:21 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on February 10, 2016, 12:19:20 pm
Post by: Harry Baldman on February 10, 2016, 12:41:05 pm
I mean, it's probably nothing earth-shattering, given what we know already and what we've found out, but you never know.
Post by: piecewise on February 10, 2016, 01:14:04 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on February 10, 2016, 01:17:15 pm
Post by: Harry Baldman on February 10, 2016, 01:19:46 pm
Or maybe the initiation region and the termination region. Depends on how molecular this analogy is. Quick, see if you can figure out complementary loops. Maybe there's a cryptographic attenuation mechanism (presumably the point where an enlightened cryptographer says "balls to that" and gives up) that you need to understand first.
Seriously, though, that implies digrams or trigrams with some degree of redundancy in them. And perhaps a degree of universality between other encoded notes of the Doctor (except the ones he's cribbed from others - those probably have a few trigrams with different meanings).
Post by: NJW2000 on February 10, 2016, 02:05:08 pm
Post by: Toaster on February 10, 2016, 02:18:45 pm
Quote
I submit these as less likely:
Rhyming as important
medical knowledge as important
baconian cipher
punctuation
PW said one of these was important: I'm guessing it's that one.
There's 5 symbols, right? Our DNA has 4 bases; maybe this the genetic code of something (COUGH ORIGIN) that has 5 bases instead of 4.
Post by: Egan_BW on February 10, 2016, 02:23:48 pm
Post by: Toaster on February 10, 2016, 02:24:45 pm
Five bases doesn't make much sense to me, but I don't know what else it would be.
Well, four bases is great and all when you're talking about Earth genetics, but this is ER; earthly limitations need not apply.
Post by: Gentlefish on February 10, 2016, 02:27:11 pm
Post by: Toaster on February 10, 2016, 02:41:08 pm
Assumption one is that there is a start trigram and a stop trigram. They are, respectively, the first and last trigram. This leads to 6 starts and 14 stops. Obviously wrong.
Assumption two is that there is no start trigram, and the last trigram is stop. This leads to 14 sections. Of note is three sections are a single trigram long:
ΩθФ
θΩΩ
ΩθФ
Two are the same, which is noteworthy. The other is the same as the very first trigram.
Hmmm... codons have redundancy, which implies it's just a substitution, but with redundancy. I'm not sure the best path forward on that.
Post by: Urist McCoder on February 10, 2016, 02:44:38 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on February 10, 2016, 03:21:56 pm
Post by: NJW2000 on February 10, 2016, 03:26:33 pm
AB, BC, CD, DE, EA
Or a pentagram: AB, AC, AD, AE, BC, etc.
Or one base could only join with itself.
I'm probably totally missing the point here.
Post by: TheBiggerFish on February 10, 2016, 03:33:34 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on February 10, 2016, 03:39:41 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on February 10, 2016, 03:40:57 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on February 10, 2016, 03:42:15 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on February 10, 2016, 03:44:37 pm
Post by: Empiricist on February 10, 2016, 03:48:36 pm
Post by: Harry Baldman on February 10, 2016, 03:49:39 pm
But five is a prime number, meaning that it's either a single-helix or it's actually ten bases and this is converted to base-five. Or that origin genetics break math?
It doesn't really matter, since a single strand is all we appear to have (although this not being the case, what with the deliberate separation into lines, is also possible).
So then. One thing we need to figure out is how many codons we really need. There seem to be 5 bases. That gives us 5 by 5 or 25 symbols, which is possible as an encoding mechanism if the Doctor is not fond of the letters 'x' or maybe 'z'. Probably three though, just as Mother Nature likes it, though that would mean 125 total symbols possible.
Hm. Either looks somewhat likely, truth be told.
Maybe each line is a word, it just occurred to me. That means you need a correct reference frame for each.
Post by: NJW2000 on February 10, 2016, 04:24:05 pm
Post by: Urist McCoder on February 10, 2016, 04:48:33 pm
If it is DNA or RNA, this may be relevant (https://www.quantamagazine.org/20150710-genetic-alphabet/). Because adding additional nucleotides seems like something Von Nost would do, not specifically for encryption, I mean just in general.That article was published 15 days before the cipher was; you may be on to something.
Post by: Egan_BW on February 10, 2016, 04:55:33 pm
Is all life origin? Or just humans? Because DNA is all life.All organic life, including aliens.
Post by: NJW2000 on February 10, 2016, 04:59:06 pm
Post by: chaotic skies on February 11, 2016, 07:20:44 pm
Post by: AoshimaMichio on February 11, 2016, 11:44:02 pm
Quick question: What doctor are we talking about? I appear to have missed something.There's only one Doctor (http://einsteinianroulette.wikia.com/wiki/The_Doctor).
Post by: chaotic skies on February 12, 2016, 12:24:01 am
FFUUUUUUUU-
Post by: TheBiggerFish on May 07, 2016, 10:17:51 pm
Post by: chaotic skies on May 07, 2016, 10:56:45 pm
Post by: Skyrunner on May 08, 2016, 12:00:42 am
.... A big part of the reason IRL ciphers get cracked is because they have access to a tooon of ciphertext. Also, people make mistakes when using the cipher which can be exploited.
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 08, 2016, 01:04:26 am
Post by: Gentlefish on May 08, 2016, 01:16:56 am
Post by: NJW2000 on May 08, 2016, 06:22:12 am
That, taken with the base-pairing rule, seems a little bit weird.
But: the code is divisible into triplets.
And if each triplet represented a letter... people have tried that before. Unless each letter could be represented by one of several triplets, as with the 20 amino acids in DNA being made by several different triplets.
With 4-base DNA, there are 4^3=64 triplets, and 20 bases, 3 stop codones, 1 start codon... there aren't 3 triplets per base, though, some bases have 5, others 1. The number of triplets per base is roughly comparable
With 5 base DNA, there would be 5^3=125. There are 26 letters... a given number of start codones, a given number of stop ones... Assuming it works like that. Anyway, one would have to try and guess which triplets made which letters, with some triplets meaning the same letter.
Not sure how one would go about that though.
There are, apparently, novel bases available. Which could be relevant, but has been discussed below.
...fuck, I have an exam tomorrow.
Post by: TheBiggerFish on May 08, 2016, 08:12:51 pm
Post by: NJW2000 on May 09, 2016, 01:37:13 am
PPE: 2-base codes for each acid?
Post by: chaotic skies on May 09, 2016, 11:40:31 pm
Post by: Ozarck on May 10, 2016, 03:03:08 am
ACTGU.
I'd be a bit confused if I saw T and U in the same place though.
With 4-base DNA, there are 4^3=64 triplets, and 20 bases, 3 stop codones, 1 start codon... there aren't 3 triplets per base, though, some bases have 5, others 1. The number of triplets per base is roughly comparableif both DNA codons and RNA codons are represented (a codon is three symbols, mind you) and if the greek symbols each match one of the bases, actgu, then we have 101 triplets to look at, with 64 DNA and 64 RNA codons, eliminating repeated sets
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Edit: however, this only matters if, in the Cipher, there are any pairs of letters that do not appear in the same triplet. There are not.
Post by: chaotic skies on July 15, 2016, 02:49:02 am
Post by: Gentlefish on July 15, 2016, 10:39:21 am
Post by: Skyrunner on July 15, 2016, 10:45:47 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on July 15, 2016, 11:44:35 am
ER's ending?Current ER yes. Piecewise is preparing ER 2.0, codenamed RER (pronounced re-R). They play test games using an IRC-like chat that allows for rolling, character pages and stuff like that every night at 1 GMT I think. You can find links to the chat and the rules in the OOC thread.
Post by: Ozarck on July 15, 2016, 12:33:14 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on July 15, 2016, 01:05:49 pm
It's on Roll20.ER's ending?Current ER yes. Piecewise is preparing ER 2.0, codenamed RER (pronounced re-R). They play test games using an IRC-like chat that allows for rolling, character pages and stuff like that every night at 1 GMT I think. You can find links to the chat and the rules in the OOC thread.
Post by: Lenglon on August 06, 2016, 01:58:27 pm
Post by: Harry Baldman on August 06, 2016, 02:07:27 pm
I think people have given up pw.
Yeah, turns out there's not a single Crick among us in ER's base of people.
Post by: spazyak on August 06, 2016, 03:10:36 pm
Post by: Gentlefish on August 06, 2016, 08:40:48 pm
Post by: spazyak on August 06, 2016, 08:44:13 pm
Nahman. It was Codons. the triple-letters were end-codons. I think. That's as much as I gave up.Well remember dna can be used storm information.
Post by: Egan_BW on August 26, 2016, 11:14:31 pm
Quote
θΩΩλΔΔΔθΩΩΔλλΔθθθθθλΔΩФΔΩλΩθθλλΔΔθλλФΔλФθθΩΩФλФΔλλФθλΔФθθФΩλΔΔθΔλФФФΩ
Encode One Five Eight
ΩθФФФΩΔΔΔλФΔθФΔΔΩθФΩΔλФΔΩθΩΔΔθλλФλΔθФΔλΩФΩФΩλλΔλθθθΩФΔθФθΔФλΩθΔλλФΔΩθλΔλθΔФΔθΔθθΩθФΔФΔΩΩθλθФΔΔΔФλθΩΩΔФФλΩ
The Flesh of god was found by man
θΩΩΔλФΔΔΩθλΔθФΔФΔλλθФλФΔΩθΩΔΔΔΩФΩλΔθΔΩθθλФФΩλλΔθθθΩλλФθФθλθθΩθΩθФΔΩΔΔλθΩθθθλФΩθλФФΔΩΩΩΩθФΔΔΔФλθΩΩΔФФФΩ
The Flesh of god was made by man
θΩΩФФΩΔΔΩλФΔλλФΔΩΩФΩΔλФΔΩθΩΔΔΩΩФΔΩλΩФΔλθλФФΩλΩλΩθθθΩФΩθΩФλθΩΩθΩθФΔθθΩλΔΔΩθΔФФΩθΔΔλΔλΩΩΔλФΔθθΩΩФΩФΔΩΩΩΩΩФΔΔΔλλθθΔθΔФλΩ
The Flesh of god was destroyed by man
ΩθФΔλФΔΔΩλФΔθλλλΩΔΩФλλΔθλΩλλФΔΔθΔΩΩΩΩФΩλΔΩΔΩΩλλФΔλФΔΔΩλФΩΩФΩФΔФФΩΩλФΔθΔθΔΔΔθФΔθΩФλθθΩθΔΩФΔФΔΩλΔλθΔΩθθФФФΩ
The progeny of the flesh was born
ΩθФΔλФΔΔΔλФΔθФΔλΩΔΩФλλΔλλΩФλΔΔθθλΩΩΩΩФΩλΔθΔΩΩθλФΔλθΔΔΩλΔΔθФΩΔΩΔλθФλФΔθΔθΔΔθλλФθФθФθλФΩΔФΩθθФΔΩФλλФΔΔλФλλλΩФλΩΔФФλΩ
The progeny of the flesh will return
θΩΩΔλФΔΔΩλФΔΩФΩλΩΔΩФλλΔλФΩλλФΔΩΔФΩΩΔθФΔλΔθΔΩΩθФΔФФΩΔΔθλФΔθλФФΔλλθФλФΔΩθΩΔΔΩθФΔθΩФλθθΩθΩθФΔθθθλΔΔθΔθФФΩΩФλλΔλΩθθλФΔθθΩФФΩ
The progeny of the flesh was destroyed
θΩΩΔλФΔΔΔλФΔθλФλθθФΩΔФФΩλФΩΩФλλФΔθθθθФΔθФθλΔΔΩФλθλΔΩФΔλθθθФΔΩΔΔФθΩΩθΩΔλФλθθΔΩλλФΔФФΩ
The altered were a mistake
ΩθФФФΩΔΔΔλФΔΩФΔλθθФΩΩΔλФλФΔθΔΩθλΔθθθθФΔλΔΔΔФλФФΩθλФΩθΩΔλФΔФλΩФλθΔθθΩθ
The altered eat stars
θΩΩΔλФΔΔΔλФΔΩФΔλθΩλθФΔλθλФΔθΔΔλФΔθθΔθФΔλθΩθΔΔλΔΔΩФΩθθθθλΔΔФФθθΩФФΩ
The altered are dead
Post by: Ozarck on August 27, 2016, 02:36:23 am
Post by: Skyrunner on August 27, 2016, 03:50:54 am
Post by: Ozarck on August 27, 2016, 04:47:00 am
What's the "ER folder"?PW's folder that he keeps all his generators, notes, and other stuff in, related to Einsteinian Roulette. He posted a link to it in the OOC thread yesterday.