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Dwarf Fortress => DF Modding => Mod Releases => Topic started by: darkflagrance on July 30, 2010, 11:22:56 pm

Title: [0.44.12+] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: darkflagrance on July 30, 2010, 11:22:56 pm
Dwarf Fortress: Fortress Defense II R


Release v0.21 R (for versions 43.05-44.12)
Download Basic + Challenge Mode*Individual entity files included (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3081)
Download Basic Mode Only (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3197)
Download Legacy Version for 43.03 and below (http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=12429)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Just click and drag the files in the download (except the readme and folders) straight into your raw/objects folder.
Instructions for customizing your experience are included in the readme.

Graphics included; alternate graphics available here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=62874.msg2397298#msg2397298).

Note that creature descriptions are not yet updated for this version due to current ongoing changes; please see the readme for current civilizations. There may still be some kinks with invasions that have to be worked out in this version.

Worldgen suggestions:
You may want extra embark points to make sure you have a military unit with teacher and concentration. Play in a region map - "smaller" maps are more likely to place all Fortress Defense civs within range of a single embark. And make sure Number of Civilizations is 20 or higher if you play on smaller maps.
I like to generate about 30-40 years of history to ensure that most civs are still active. I've been able to find sites that could be invaded by all 18 Fortress Defense civs in addition to the vanilla visitors.

Features:
Basic: 10 new, unique, always hostile civs
Challenge: 4 more always hostile civs plus 4 optional Bonus civs

---Changes for 0.21 R7

-Fixed blendec sprites
-Fixed duplicated TRADE progress trigger
-Hellfire Imps now at attack at 80 population
-Ruthertaurs now come at higher levels of production and trade
-All siege progress triggers for bonus civs increased by 1 level

---Changes for 0.20 R6

-Added individual entity files so that mix-and-matching is easier. There is no need to split the creatures file, because they won't spawn without their corresponding entity present anyway
-Fortress Defense enemies may now apply for citizenship! Also, more Fortress Defense races can now be mercenaries and visitors
-Removed STRUCTURAL from fiend tissue
-Greater Badgermen can no longer be poisoned or suffer infections from wounds (to increase resemblance to honey badgers)
-Great Fiend Spider progress triggers altered so they attack later
-Nakashim renamed to Nakash Snakemen/women

---Changes for 0.19c R5.5

-Fixed interaction bug.
-Nerfed Hellfire imps again to further reduce frequency of dragonfire. Currently, 1/100 Hellfire imps will use it with a large recharge time.
-Fixed the caste tiles for Jotunar

---Changes for 0.19b R5.5

-Nerfed Hellfire imps: reduced frequency of dragonfire and increased time to arrival
-Removed conflicting biorhythm tags from Pandashi and Badgermen
-Reduced the amount of teeth in Fortress Defense Races

---Changes for 0.19 R5

-Fixed the graphics offset issue thanks to YetAnotherLurker! The graphics files were consolidated as a result
-Added dead's graphics for White Tigermen, as well as Minotaur graphics if you wish to implement them yourself (Minotaurs are no longer technically in the mod)
-Changed a mispelled MASTER_WRESTLER token for spiders
-Because Greater Badgermen cannot currently rest, they now have Wolverine-style regeneration

---Changes for 0.18 R4

-Additional graphics for Fortress Defense Civs courtesy of dead!
-Address conflict in promised and actual Greater Badgerman size
-Nerfed web-slinging by Great Fiend Spiders, augmented their wrestling
-Fortress Defense Civs are no longer allowed to set up their own versions of Rapture under the ocean waves (ALL_MAIN -> ANY_LAND)
-Increased the range of the Spurring interaction so animals are even less afraid when accompanying Fortress Defense sieges
-Added additional skill learn rates to furies
-Renamed the custom Fortress Defense cap so that the item name would not be duplicated in stockpiles
-Nagas now immune to their own venom

---Changes for 0.17 R3

-Spurring: makes animals that accompany sieges gain NOFEAR
-Warwolves have custom profession names and can turn others into Warwolves, also should have steel teeth and claws
-Furies use steel equipment, experimenting with skill learn rates
-Nerfed spiders to be easier to wound and fire webs less often, but have in-built wrestling
-Gave Dark Stranglers natural dodging skill
-Replaced scimitars with long swords for anything that used them
-Some removal of redundant/obsolete tokens

---Changes for 0.16 R2

-Removed natural skills that prevented armor from being worn
-Tightened down the metal access of the bonus civs
-A couple of civs are now using steel tissues
-Broadened Full Plate access
-Tweaked dodging, seasonal arrivals, and made civs arrive earlier
-Many Fortress Defense enemies can now be recruited

---Changes for 0.15 R1

-Changes needed to convert to DF 0.42.03
--Raw fixes: removed UNTOWARD, fixed Strangler tags
--Replaced adventure tier
--Made all races able to speak and open doors
-Tweaked progress triggers a little

---Changes for 0.14 EXP

-Changes made to accommodate the fact that sieges will only attack mature forts now
-Added NOPAIN to more races (nagas, large challenge races, frogmen, war elephants, hellfire imps, white tigermen, pandashi, greater badgermen)
-Some races also got NOEXERT
-Putrid Blendecs no longer breathe or suffer nausea
-Frogmen are now Frog Demons, based off 40d
-Great Fiend Spiders can now bite through steel
-Buffed War Elephants, Beakwolves, Dark Stranglers, and Raptor Men. Their attack can now penetrate armor, and they are naturally a little more resistant to weapon strikes (you will probably need at least good quality iron to fight them - but you also have three years to prepare for them).
-Greater Badgermen have the same buffs as the above while I fix their armor issue
-Switched around speech tags; White Tigermen and Ferric Elves now speak in battle, but Great Fiend Spiders no longer do
-White Tigermen and Frog Demons finally learned how to use armor
-Warwolves, Jotunar, Blendecs, Raptors, and Nightwings now have full plate access
-Fixed the lack of silk from Great Fiend Spiders (the color is still not right)
Still in testing:
-Fix the equipment bugs in bonus and challenge races

---Changes for 0.13 EXP from 34.06

-Attempted to update various broken arrival triggers
-Minotaurs are now Ruthertaurs

---
Changes from Fortress Defense Mod original:
-Now has two difficulty levels for varying degrees of massacre: Basic and Challenge!
-The Basic Mode includes ten civs. Challenge Mode adds four more ridiculously tough civs, and an optional four more!
-You can now select the entities you want to face from the included folders and install them instead of the general entity file
-Enemy arrival is based on both population and trading status, because the game cannot track population alone as the trigger for sieges. Therefore, it is advisable to avoid trading too high a volume of goods, while instead melting the armor of defeated armies or mining out your own ore to use for defense.

Mod Description:
This mod completes the revision of the original Fortress Defense Mod. It is designed for those who would like to have a chance of surviving the vast hordes of enemies who besiege you. Enemies often come in only one season, with a few exceptions, which decreases the chance of three simultaneous sieges, and only one late-game Fortress Defense civ will intercept the Dwarven caravan. However, this doesn’t mean you still shouldn’t prepare yourself for that eventuality…

Four deadly civilizations have been added to the game to act as the fitting conclusion to this mod.

The mod uses vanilla items and adds only creatures and civs, based on the ones that already exist in vanilla. In addition, the new enemies have had most useless clothing deleted from their entry so that each siege doesn't clutter up your stockpiles with tons of useless Hoary Marmot Leather Socks or something. It's best to play on a world of at least medium size, on regions rather than islands, if one wishes to experience the full potential eleven enemy civs.

Long worldgens may not be advisable.

Listing of Enemies

Dark Stranglers (size 40,000)[/b]

About 2/3 the size of dwarves and lacking in any form of armor, they are not much of a threat to an early militia. They do, however, have 4 arms and a very vicious bite, and are quite fast. As the weakest of the new enemies, they also attack the soonest.

Beak Wolves (size 50,000+)

These relatives of the familiar mount of Goblins, the Beak Dog, similarly attack dwarves with their crushing beak and sharp claws. However, they fight with greater cunning and skill than their wilder, less organized cousins, fleeing if the odds seem stacked against them. These black and white monsters will usually, but not always, attack a little while after the Stranglers.

Frog Demons (size: 100,000)

Frog Demons are just almost twice as large as dwarves. They treat water as no obstacle, and in addition, they only know how to use copper and cannot make many kinds of armor. Like Frog Demons of old that spilled from pits in the earth, they are immune to fire and building destroyers, and can also swim. They will probably flee when it is clear they are no match for you, but watch out for their arrows!

White Tigermen (size: 90,000)

Learning of the servitude their striped brethren have been forced into by the elves and dwarves, these northern avengers have come to wreak vengeance and liberate the enslaved! Their large size and ability to wield two-handed weapons makes them a worthy challenge in melee.

Nakashim/Helmetsnake Men (size: 100,000)

Half-serpent and half-man, with poisonous fangs. Their venom varies from merely paralyzing to capable of inflicting necrosis. The striking reflexes of their reptilian halves give them a great deal of speed when fighting.They use bronze and iron weapons, and include archers among their ranks. Nakashim have developed some armor making ability; however, they cannot armor their snake-like lower bodies as well as dwarves. Also, they are dextrous enough to avoid traps.

Putrid Blendecs (size: 60,000)

Finally, an enemy the same size as a dwarf! Foul blendecs, which have cloven feet and eyeless skulls for heads, could only be found in evil areas in vanilla. In Fortress Defense, they attack armed with bronze and iron weapons and armor. Because they are a twisted mix of the undead and the living, they know neither pain nor fear, and your traps cannot target them. Lately, some Putrid Blendecs have been discovered to contain lumps of Cassiterite inside their bodies. Note that due to a bug in 42.0x, this cassiterite cannot be smelted in those versions.

Ferric Elves (size: 60,000)

Ferric Elves are the remnants of elven communities who survived the fiery destruction of their forests. Left with no other choice, they learned to smelt iron and silver with the leftover charcoal and forged themselves into a formidable fighting force. Each member of their desperate race is trained to use a ranged weapon from birth, resulting in innate archery skill. Swift and agile, they are too graceful to be caught by traps. Cut off from their connection to nature they no longer wish to live, and experience no fear charging into battle, hoping only to end their internal pain. Please be so good as to oblige them!

Hellfire Imps (size: 60,000)

Fire Imps are normally exceedingly small. Hellfire Imps, however, are their comparatively huge relatives who have grown so fond of setting bonfires that they have formed a marauding horde for the purpose of burning to death as many dwarves and other unlucky victims as possible. They use up to steel armor and weaponry (including fearsome whips), but their most fearsome ability is to throw or breath fire at their prey from range, a capability which is possessed by all of their troops. Shields are heavily advisable against them.
Note: you can cheese your way out of some of this by turning off temperature. (weaklings…)

Warwolves (size: 120,000)

Twice the size of dwarves, the lightning-fast, iron- and steel-wielding werewolves are guaranteed to defeat any similarly armed unskilled dwarf in single-combat. In addition, they avoid traps, meaning that there is no easy way to deal with them. Worst of all, physical contact with them inflicts a curse that turns their opponents into crazed beasts! If you wish to meet them head-on, no less than steel-armed dwarves will suffice.

War Elephants (size: 5,000,000)

No, that size is not a typo. Elephants are massive, and they have come to lay waste to your fort just as they did the fortresses of old, only this time they come in heavy steel armor, wielding massive mauls or morningstars. Luckily for the player, Elephants do not wield shields with their trunks, and mainly rely on their tusks, their powerful bulk, and pure animal rage to kill your dwarves.

Challenge Version enemies: If it can be imagined, the power and ferocity of the following four races exceeds those of the previous tier by a ridiculous amount. They will pull no punches in their attempt to end your fort. That is why they have been sequestered into a whole league of their own.

Race One:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Race Two:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Race Three:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Race Four:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Bonus Enemies: The bonus tier enemies attack at the same time as Tier 4 enemies. They are very similar to dwarves in size and wield steel equipment. One could compare them to a well-trained dwarven militia.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Furies (size: 60,000)

Furies, like their cousins Harpies, possess the ability to fly. This resulted in their being removed from the Basic version due to flight pathfinding being broken. Unlike Harpies, however, Furies come in both male and female forms, and can wield weapons. Their feathers and weapons are made of steel, and they have come to feast on the corpses they plan to create.

The original (though outdated) Fortress Defense Mod is here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=62874.msg1445997#msg1445997) (or just scroll down a couple of posts)
(DIFFICULTY CAUSED BY PLAYING THE OLD VERSION IS NOT THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE MODDER)
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: 10 new civs to test your might!
Post by: xDarkz on July 31, 2010, 12:10:18 am
Yes! I formally thank you for giving us an assortment of monsters to destroy/be destroyed by, other than the occasional goblin, troll, or megabeast! :D

This will be "fun!"
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: 10 new civs to test your might!
Post by: darkflagrance on July 31, 2010, 12:21:46 am
Dwarf Fortress: Fortress Defense (LEGACY)

Release v0.03 Outdated

Changes:

-Tougher civs and difficulty scale than Fortress Defense II, meaning that this might even be harder than FDII Challenge Mode.
-Warning: population triggers are slightly bugged, and the enemies generally come MUCH earlier. Danger rooms may help to get your dwarves ready for the invasions.

Link to mod: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2863 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2863)

WARNING: You may find this version of Fortress Defense to be extremely unbalanced, although exceedingly fun. TRY AT YOUR OWN RISK!

Long worldgens may not be advisable.

Features:
10 new, unique, always hostile civs:

Tier 1: These enemies begin sieging you almost immediately, but they are truly pathetic, barely better than wild beasts. The most they should be able to do is disrupt trade, if you have any form of armor available.

Stranglers (size 40,000)

About 2/3 the size of dwarves and lacking in any form of armor, they are not much of a threat to an early militia. They do, however, have 4 arms and a very vicious bite, and are quite fast. As the weakest of the new enemies, they also attack the soonest.

Tier 2: These enemies come when you have about 20-30 dwarves.

Frogmen (size: 50,000)

Frogmen are just a little smaller than dwarves. They treat water as no obstacle, and wield wooden weapons. In addition, they cannot make many kinds of armor. They will probably flee when it is clear they are no match for you, but watch out for their arrows!

Tier 3: These enemies come when you have about 50 dwarves. The real battles begin here. In addition to the civs below, vanilla goblins will also begin attacking you.

Nagas (size: 50,000)

Half-serpent and half-man, with poisonous fangs. The striking reflexes of their reptilian halves give them a great deal of speed when fighting.They use bronze weapons, and include archers among their ranks. Nagas have developed some armor making ability; however, they cannot armor their snake-like lower bodies as well as dwarves. Also, they are dextrous enough to avoid traps.

Blendecs (size: 60,000)

Finally, an enemy the same size as a dwarf! Foul blendecs, which have cloven feet and eyeless skulls for heads, could only be found in evil areas in vanilla. In Fortress Defense, they attack armed with bronze weapons and armor. Because they are a twisted mix of the undead and the living, they know no pain or fear, and your traps cannot target them.

Furies (size: 60,000)

What differentiates Furies from Blendecs or Goblins? They use bronze and iron, and they are all the same size as dwarves, after all. However, only Furies, like their cousins Harpies, possess the ability to fly. Unlike Harpies, however, Furies come in both male and female forms, and can wield weapons. Because they fly, however, Furies are not as well armored as other races.

Tier 4: The previous tier contained enemies that were about equal to dwarves. Now, the enemies outmatch them significantly.


Werewolves (size: 120,000)

Twice the size of dwarves, the lightning-fast, bronze-wielding werewolves are guaranteed to defeat any similarly armed dwarf in single-combat. In addition, they avoid traps, meaning that there is no easy way to deal with them. If you wish to meet them head-on, no less than steel-armed dwarves will suffice.

Elephants (size: 5,000,000)


No, that size is not a typo. Elephants are massive, and they have come to lay waste to your fort just as they did the fortresses of old, only this time they come in heavy steel armor. Luckily for the player, Elephants do not wield weapons with their trunks, and only rely on their tusks, their powerful bulk, and pure animal rage to kill your dwarves.

Nightwings (size: 120,000)

These jackal-headed fiends combine the worst of many of the earlier enemies. They wield cruel weapons of steel, experience neither pain nor fear, disable your traps, are free of any need for breath or nourishment, and worst of all, they can fly on their leathery wings. Good luck to those who face them in battle!

Tier 5: These enemies are semi-megabeasts who have banded together to crush the dwarves. It will take a strong mountainhome with a veteran military to survive their assaults!


Minotaurs (size: 220,000)

Minotaurs and Giants have [BUILDINGDESTROYER:2], meaning that they can topple anything that is not a constructed wall or floor (or some bridges). The horn-headed Minotaurs, nearly four times the size of dwarves, match your dwarves in steel technology. Through their experience with labyrinths they avoid your traps and can tame underground beasts, but at least they can feel pain, right?

Giants (size: 9,000,000)

The Twilight of the World is at hand! If you reach the point where you fight these guys, you will be lucky enough to experience giants rampage through your fort like they do in Legends Mode. At size 9 million, they are nearly twice the size of Elephants. Worse, they are too large for traps to work and wear steel, while taking neither heat or cold damage. Are you bad enough to face the greatest challenge this mod has to offer and survive?
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: 10 new civs to test your might!
Post by: Heavenfall on July 31, 2010, 04:52:40 am
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Edit: I notice PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POP_SIEGE:5 on the toughest sons of a bitches... how awesome will this be.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: 10 new civs to test your might!
Post by: Deon on July 31, 2010, 04:57:20 am
Hehe, sieging elephants. I wanted to make it but didn't really do. Awesome job.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: 10 new civs to test your might!
Post by: Heavenfall on July 31, 2010, 06:57:22 am
Just got sieged by nagas at population 12. They arrived at the same time as the first strangler siege. Mid-summer first year.

This is going to be so much fun.

Edit: Thunder giants arrived a week later. Lets see if they wipe each other out. Edit2: They didn't.
Also fun fact: thunder giant riding a giant bat.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: 10 new civs to test your might!
Post by: darkflagrance on July 31, 2010, 09:53:08 am
Just got sieged by nagas at population 12. They arrived at the same time as the first strangler siege. Mid-summer first year.

This is going to be so much fun.

Edit: Thunder giants arrived a week later. Lets see if they wipe each other out. Edit2: They didn't.
Also fun fact: thunder giant riding a giant bat.

I think the problem is due to a last minute change I made to all the civs. I'll fix the problem when I get back from work.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: 10 new civs to test your might!
Post by: jocan2003 on July 31, 2010, 10:58:20 am
There was a similar mod back for D16 im so happy to see it back ahhhh, the werewolves, god know how i hated them only barely had time to close the bridge before they storm inside..... SOO fast
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: 10 new civs to test your might!
Post by: Heavenfall on July 31, 2010, 12:58:10 pm
You should be aware that there seems to be a problem with invaders riding beasts. They tend to not do much at all unless you walk to them. And if its the leaders... everyone else follows them (or, follows them nowhere). I've turned many a short goblin sieges into yearlong sieges because they won't do anything.

This goes for the game in general, not the mod.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: 10 new civs to test your might!
Post by: Ironhand on July 31, 2010, 01:14:18 pm
Steel armored elephants???

...awesome! Me too:     (http://i31.tinypic.com/2qv4heo.png)
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: 10 new civs to test your might!
Post by: Heavenfall on July 31, 2010, 04:28:33 pm
Oh, that comment I made above was only regarding flying beasts. I'd edit, but its hours later.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: 10 new civs to test your might!
Post by: Lormax on August 01, 2010, 01:49:47 am
Quote
I think the problem is due to a last minute change I made to all the civs. I'll fix the problem when I get back from work.

Was that issue fixed?  If so, I'm going to download this!
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: 10 new civs to test your might!
Post by: darkflagrance on August 01, 2010, 05:33:55 am
Ok, I think I've fixed the problem. The link in the OP should lead to the download for v0.02.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: 10 new civs to test your might!
Post by: Heavenfall on August 01, 2010, 04:41:08 pm
Blendecs, furies and war elephants arrived late second summer (45 dwarves pre-fight). Furies were marked as crossbowmen, but didn't shoot. The main fury was riding a war tiger (odd for a flying unit). The war elephants were pretty damn weak for a "tier5" enemy. Nevertheless, 3 sieges at once annihilated my 15man steelarmored defense... some silly dwarf forgot to hook up the bridges to the lever so noone tasted magma.

Edit: Strike that. The elephants were caught in traps. One squad of wrestler+pikemen elephants massacred my army in less than a milisecond.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: 10 new civs to test your might!
Post by: darkflagrance on August 01, 2010, 05:23:13 pm
Blendecs, furies and war elephants arrived late second summer (45 dwarves pre-fight). Furies were marked as crossbowmen, but didn't shoot. The main fury was riding a war tiger (odd for a flying unit). The war elephants were pretty damn weak for a "tier5" enemy. Nevertheless, 3 sieges at once annihilated my 15man steelarmored defense... some silly dwarf forgot to hook up the bridges to the lever so noone tasted magma.

Edit: Strike that. The elephants were caught in traps. One squad of wrestler+pikemen elephants massacred my army in less than a milisecond.

I'm still tweaking the mod until it meets my satisfaction over the long-term average game. Due to the random nature of world gen, each game tends to be quite different.

Yeah, I've found that the triggers are a little imprecise. The new siege progress triggers have no data on the wiki, and it's hard to say exactly how they interact with the normal triggers from last version, so I'm still testing them myself. In my current fort on this version, I get sieged by Stranglers the first year, which I expect, but so far no other enemy types have attacked me in the second year. My doors are encrusted with strangler bones.

As for the Furies, flying units are a bit wonkier than I expected if they spawn in the air. I don't think the odd trapped enemy is too bad yet, but if it becomes game-breaking, I'll remove the Flier tag or replace them entirely.

If you are having trouble with earlier than normal enemies, I'd suggest to try keeping production and trade a bit slower than normal. I'm building primarily farming forts that trade food for the steel I need to make weapons.

 War Elephants are actually Tier 4, I believe, but they were balanced to take into account weapon traps: they don't trapavoid them but tank them, and those who survive attack the dwarves.

Also, when testing Elephants vs. Dwarves, I've found that weapon skill tends to make the most difference. Because Elephants are still using their relatively weak tusks, their attacks tend to bounce off skilled fighters in steel.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: 10 new civs to test your might!
Post by: Heavenfall on August 01, 2010, 05:40:29 pm
To me, the two largest problems are enemies riding things and therefore not attacking, and the constant sieging permanentally putting you in "siege" mode, preventing immigrants. May I be as bold as to promote a season where no entity is active?

Edit: Elephants are highly vulnerable to trap cages. =)
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: 10 new civs to test your might!
Post by: darkflagrance on August 01, 2010, 05:58:45 pm
To me, the two largest problems are enemies riding things and therefore not attacking, and the constant sieging permanentally putting you in "siege" mode, preventing immigrants. May I be as bold as to promote a season where no entity is active?

Edit: Elephants are highly vulnerable to trap cages. =)

I personally like the endless sieges...but maybe winter might be a good candidate for a downtime.

Also, if you repel enough sieges from one entity, you will eventually stop them from coming.

Elephants and cage traps were nostalgia from Boatmurdered :)
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: 10 new civs to test your might!
Post by: Heavenfall on August 02, 2010, 02:59:00 am
How do I go about setting up a food fortress for export? Lots and lots of farmers? Where do the barrels come from? How do you get the dwarves to send you steel? Do you then melt it, or hope that you get complete armor sets?

I usually go straight for steel production (usually I have my first steel bars before I have my first bed or my first dining room), but arguably hundreds of pieces of (high quality) armor results in a lot of created wealth.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: 10 new civs to test your might!
Post by: darkflagrance on August 02, 2010, 10:53:49 am
How do I go about setting up a food fortress for export? Lots and lots of farmers? Where do the barrels come from? How do you get the dwarves to send you steel? Do you then melt it, or hope that you get complete armor sets?

I usually go straight for steel production (usually I have my first steel bars before I have my first bed or my first dining room), but arguably hundreds of pieces of (high quality) armor results in a lot of created wealth.

Barrels can usually be gotten by buying all the cheap and crappy food in the beginning, but you don't want barrels if you are exporting roasts. I only farm a little for helmets and later flour; roast ingredients are best gotten from butchery or importation. Some players might consider this playstyle a little exploitative though, for the flavor reason that the roasts should not keep long enough to be valuable.

I usually embark with some metal and turn that into armor, and then initially use home-forged bronze and imported steel. In my last game, I began forging my own steel equipment at 45 population. In the beginning, I try to focus on increasing the skills of my soldiers first; in all my tests, skill and weapon choice were very significant factors in determining the victor; dabbling swordsmen don't cut it against armored foes. Also, you need a ton of positioning skill to deal with archers, or else use your own. Good marksdwarves really even the odds, though the ammo is expensive.

However, I wouldn't say that my strategy is necessarily the best in the long run. I haven't played the latest version until giants yet.

---

Version 0.03: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2863 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2863) (same link as in op)

The earlier enemies are now generally restricted from coming in the winter, and many also do not come at other times of the year. I made the progress trigger requirements for some later civs even higher. I've nerfed frogs a little in the latest version to use wooden weapons as well. I'm not sure if this was the best idea, since in theory if the early player can survive their assault it's easy to melt down their weapons into raw materials.

These changes only take effect on a world regen.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: wierdoom on August 02, 2010, 01:35:48 pm
Excellent idea! I'll have to try this in my next fort.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: Ethereal.Frog on August 02, 2010, 01:59:54 pm
I don't know if it's intended, but a strangler siege just showed up in first autumn with a war elephant. I'm pretty sure it's a vanilla elephant, but it still seems like a bit much to be accompanying guys you can fight off in copper.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: Nabobalis on August 02, 2010, 02:00:18 pm
Is this compatible with Civilization Forge?
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: eclipsetail on August 02, 2010, 02:18:45 pm
So going to try this.

Thanks for it.

You should make a seige of titans.  :P
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: darkflagrance on August 02, 2010, 03:51:25 pm
Is this compatible with Civilization Forge?

It should be because no entity or creature names are shared.

I don't know if it's intended, but a strangler siege just showed up in first autumn with a war elephant. I'm pretty sure it's a vanilla elephant, but it still seems like a bit much to be accompanying guys you can fight off in copper.

Stranglers are fine. If there was a single elephant, it is indeed one of the weaksauce vanilla elephants - their attacks are significantly impeded by armor IIRC. I have been trying to figure out which tag prevents civs from bringing animals, but I suspect it is hardcoded worldgen behavior for the civ leader to tame animals.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: Ethereal.Frog on August 02, 2010, 06:19:17 pm
Frogman came 2nd summer, still at 13 pop. I've septupled my wealth though, that could account for them being so early. Unless 13 dwarves is 50~. I'm pretty sure it isn't.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: eclipsetail on August 03, 2010, 11:41:03 am
Starting this up, already have a military, it's the first summer.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: Ze Spy on August 06, 2010, 04:56:15 pm
Does Steel even Work Against the Giant?

oh , and the Giant decided to Siege Early on , While i was Testing Hax that i done by screwing around with the Raws(Not your Mod's Raw)
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: darkflagrance on August 06, 2010, 05:17:47 pm
When I arena tested Giants, I found that dwarves with superior training could slay them reliably if both were wearing steel. Giants come late so that you might have time to get those legendary fighters capable of felling them. If not, trying steel bolts from marksdwarves.

Also, though Giants have max progress triggers, if you do things like dramatically increase your wealth, you'll definitely trigger them too early.

I'd like to experiment further with progress triggers and see if I can fine tune them further, but I might be too busy in the next week or so to make updates.

I might also make an easy mode update that doesn't end with enemies as tough as giants.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: arghy on August 06, 2010, 08:54:01 pm
Wooh love these types of mods! could you add orcs and is it possible to make these creatures hostile to all like undead? I love making arenas where i dump hostiles into. I'm gonna start a fort up i'll post my findings.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: arghy on August 06, 2010, 10:53:33 pm
My first summer 14 dwarves a single party of dark strangler wrestlers showed up to meet my 2 bismuth bronze clad and armed militia on my 2 bridges and it was glorious. I'm so used to orks i already had a wall and moat setup before they showed hehe coulda simply pulled the bridges but i wanted to test out how well my 2 dwarves could fight.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: arghy on August 07, 2010, 06:54:03 pm
Been getting a siege pretty much every summer from the stranglers--its pretty goddamn awesome their edible and give leather! haha the steel production is up but my great hall is still under construction but my dwarves are to busy eating their strangler roasts to care!
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: arghy on August 07, 2010, 09:51:54 pm
Wow the difference between nagas and stranglers is friggin huge haha gonna try sticking 2-3 wardogs with every dwarf to see if that helps.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: ZaZ on August 10, 2010, 07:02:02 am
Possible bug with this. I was only getting stragglers for a few seasons (despite having considerable value and 40,50,60+ dwarves) then one season I get nagas, then a few moments later elephants then a few moments later frost giants  :o all at once.

Also its important to note that invasions seem to always happen right before a trader comes by.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: Laiska on August 10, 2010, 08:37:07 am
Thanks for the mod, its bloody FUN! in more ways than one. i got my 1st set of stranglers siege on the 1st year, when i had only 10 dwarfs around and none metal industry anywhere. the pick/axe recruits made short work of 10 or so of them. now im on 2nd year and i get both stranglers and war blendecs on the same time. now i had a half squad of steel mail dwarfs ready, stranglers went down fast but then the 20x war blendecs bowman with the hail of bronze bolts killed the whole squad. at the end i lost 30 dwarfs before the blendecs decided to leave... maybe the breastplates would be better than mail vs these lads. Maybe a squad of crossbowdwarfs could do something to prevent further massacre. Ok time to go and try to survive the incoming tantrum FUN! (and hope for a good migrant wave for a new military)

edit: got 12 migrants next season, drafted into military and got a mounted war elephant (...dude!) / mounted war blendec siege next season. it didnt end happily. my dwarfs got 2 elephants tho, seems the macedwarfs made them bleed before they were ripped to pieces. then the blendecs invaded the fort. They had a hard time killing the injured from last siege, who was still sleeping with his superior quality steel armor in hospital, he didnt wake up (my new military could have used that gear tho, oh well.)
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: darkflagrance on August 12, 2010, 08:14:22 am
I've been considering how to improve the mod. Although skilled, steel-wearing dwarves can handle npc giants and elephants, I'm finding it harder than expected to produce the necessary dwarves in time as training/military are much harder to manipulate in 31 than 40d. I might remove giants and minotaurs and instead introduce two lesser civs between the 2nd and 3rd tiers.

I'm also finding that the casualty rate on arrows might be too high if the mod throws many enemies at you over a short period of time, given that the numbers available to the fort are much lower than those available to the computer. I'm considering removing arrows on the lower tier civs for that reason.

So to sum up, I'm going to remove giants and minotaurs, perhaps decrease the attack power of elephants, and remove bows from the earlier civs. I would like to get feedback on these proposed changes.

Also, I don't think there is a way to prevent random civs from riding stuff. Alas for the new mechanics of DF 2010!
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: eclipsetail on August 12, 2010, 08:21:59 am
I'm gonna try this out with genesis mod.
I'll see if I can handle these giants once I get there.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: Deon on August 12, 2010, 08:25:15 am
Do you need help to make them compatible, or does Darkfragrance's mod edit no vanilla files? If so, I want to test it too :). Let me release 3.0 now and I will try to play with these civs :). P.S. I hope werewolves do not conflict with my werewolves though. I have weres with different castes (whitemane, gray, bloody, dread) so they could cause conflicts.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: eclipsetail on August 12, 2010, 11:59:23 am
I don't think it interferes, I started up a game and it's working.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: darkflagrance on August 12, 2010, 05:12:04 pm
They should not interfere, because the names I gave the additional creature and entity files are almost guaranteed to be unique (such as WEREWOLFFD, GIANTFD, etc.). The mod was made with compatibility in mind.

However, the Fortress Defense mod does require vanilla weapons, armor, clothes, and so on.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: goge on August 19, 2010, 09:50:34 am
I'm loving the mod Thanks for the great work!  Fiqured a way to cage those trap-avoid buggers but those flying furies are going to cause a problem.

Again Many Thanks!  :D
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: Illeist on August 30, 2010, 01:34:58 pm
Freaking love the mod. I found an odd little bug, though. Rather than capturing children, Minotaurus thieves just bludgeon the little buggers with their bags. Pic is coming.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: jaked122 on August 30, 2010, 02:17:24 pm
If I could find your address I would mail you a cookie, this is the closest I've come to breaking the no external mods rule(as in I only use my own)... Dang, I think I've broken it already.
seriously this is amazing for any mod.
good job darkflagrance, I shall download it for the monsters and stay for the seiges.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: Still Standing on August 31, 2010, 06:39:47 pm
I am not sure if this is intended behaviour, but I just killed a Strangler siege (with 3 axe men, 2 with wooden axes!) and am now butchering the corpses.  I like it a lot, but I am not sure if it is supposed to be that way!

Anyway, great mod so far!
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: kendo on September 03, 2010, 06:10:19 pm
I've been searching for a mod like this, like a followup to 40d relentless assault!

This looks cool thanks I'll check it out ;)
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: Xietanu on September 03, 2010, 08:02:46 pm
I just had a fortress utterly obliterated by Giants - blood, vomit and dwarf corpses lined the halls - and immediately started another one because, dang, it was just too enjoyable to have enemies who were real threats. I'm currently tangling with the Stranglers and expecting Frogmen soon, and I have to say that this is an incredibly fun (and indeed Fun) mod, and exactly what I was looking for. The goblins were always too infrequent, and ineffective when they did come, and this massively improves on that. Thank you! :D
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: Emily Murkpaddled on September 04, 2010, 09:17:28 am
I've been playing fortresses with this mod for the past week or so, and it's been an immeasurable improvement over the basic game. I played a lot of Orcs and a little Relentless Assault prior to df2010 dropping, so had an inkling of what I was getting into, but ... whoo, boy! My most recent defeat was to a simultaneous siege of naga, frogmen riding Giant Centipedes (?!), and war elephants. I think we killed 2 elephants in the time it took them to kill more than half of my military. D:

The one thing I miss is that the Orcs mod (or at least, the version I played) had Orcs active all year ... depending on how quickly I geared up, I would typically face a siege in Autumn or Winter of the first year. It seems that it takes entities much longer to cross the world map, now, and I'm having a hard time triggering Stranglers in the first year -- hampered even more by the fact that they (nor does anything, seemingly) appear in the winter.

I think keeping civilizations to three-active-season schedules is a good idea, but I think that they should be staggered in a way that creates a better arc. In every one of my fortresses, aside from one or two times when I would get a single civ (usually frogs) sieging more than once in a year, I would simply get a single siege by multiple civilizations (3-4) in the last few weeks of a season. "Winter is completely safe" is also a bit predictable, (can goblins show up in Winter? I haven't checked the basic raw), and something as simple as the bottom-tier civilizations showing up in Winter to harass your outdoors dwarves would add an extra element of guard.

Also, I'm asking for balance considerations -- how skilled I can get my dwarfs in any given amount of time is out of my hands, to a point, due to the randomness of training choices and how little they'll practice their weapon skill until everything else is a year+ trained. Stranglers and Frogmen (at least) on a Summer/Autumn/Winter schedule with the lowest-possible population triggers should help decouple them from the second tier, and provide additional fodder for live combat training.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: jaked122 on September 04, 2010, 09:36:33 am
this mod is fun... however it gets annoying when everybody shows up at once  >:(
I've not managed to kill anything above a dark strangler, but then again I've not really had extensive military on account of the sieges triggering too early for me to have a full squad and the rest of the fort prepared.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: Osdeath on September 05, 2010, 04:47:21 am
(can goblins show up in Winter? I haven't checked the basic raw), and something as simple as the bottom-tier civilizations showing up in Winter to harass your outdoors dwarves would add an extra element of guard.

Just to say, Goblins to have the tags to be active all 4 seasons.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: LordShotGun on September 05, 2010, 07:30:22 am
Anyone get to giants or minotuars yet?
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 06, 2010, 05:14:13 am
Even with the new danger rooms, it looks like the size differential for the biggest enemies may be too great for dwarves. In this mod, I play by embarking with three or four soldiers to defend against the stranglers; leather armor is sufficient against them. I tend request equipment off the first caravans and take it from them by force to arm my soldiers. I'll admit, I haven't survived sieges by late game enemies, though I had intended them to be a challenge.

I've finally found the time to begin working on this mod again. I'm planning a Fortress Defense Mod Lite, which removes Giants and Minotaurs (they feel a bit too vanilla to me anyway) and adds a couple of weaker enemies so that the power arc changes.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: ZaZ on September 06, 2010, 08:11:30 am
Keep them but add more variety too them 2-3 different kinds of giants or minotaurs or other siege creatures wouldn't be bad if some were weaker and some stronger, maybe the stronger force the weaker to come with them to siege you as well but some variety is welcome. As well as sometimes getting weaker sieges occasionally too.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 08, 2010, 04:03:02 am
I'm working the kinks out from the next update.

Latest news: Tigerwomen Axelords on war Grizzly Bears!

(http://i54.tinypic.com/1zzopqs.jpg)

Thus far, the mod appears to be working fine. Using the danger room, all comers are easily dispatched.

(http://i51.tinypic.com/2v2i7ti.jpg)

I'll release the update later tonight, and rewrite the first post soon.

Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: kendo on September 08, 2010, 01:46:34 pm
Thanks for the mod

I tried making something like this myself and it failed horribly ;)
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod LITE Released: Rebalancing Almost Complete!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 08, 2010, 07:39:09 pm
Alright, I have released the Fortress Defense Lite version. I am now compiling the removed races into a separate file along with a new challenge race for those who find the Lite mod easy.

Note that if you want to avoid an enemy siege or have it attack you immediately, you can edit the entity_fortressdefense file to decrease or increase progress triggers (or remove them altogether). Decreasing progress triggers causes enemy civs to attack sooner, increasing them makes them attack later, and removing them causes them to never attack at all.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod: Version 0.03 Released!
Post by: tzkal on September 09, 2010, 02:09:02 pm
Awesome mod. Just when I was thinking there wasn't enough Fun in DF, I find this.
(http://i51.tinypic.com/2v2i7ti.jpg)
No migrants? Think all the blood and gore may have had something to do with it?
I can just imagine Urist sweeping up piles of bones with his bloody broom, wondering why no one comes around here anymore.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod LITE Released: Rebalancing Almost Complete!
Post by: orcishwarrior on September 13, 2010, 11:53:00 pm
epic mod. its definitely a mod i will be playing in all my forts, as goblins just are not good enough of a challenge. my only problem was the lack of graphics... so im making some! frogmen and stranglers are done, im going to try to finish them all up within a few days, is anyone interested in me finishing it/posting it up on dffd once done?
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod LITE Released: Rebalancing Almost Complete!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 14, 2010, 11:58:40 pm
epic mod. its definitely a mod i will be playing in all my forts, as goblins just are not good enough of a challenge. my only problem was the lack of graphics... so im making some! frogmen and stranglers are done, im going to try to finish them all up within a few days, is anyone interested in me finishing it/posting it up on dffd once done?

If you create graphics for this mod, I will link to them in the various OPs.

In other words, they would be greatly appreciated!
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod LITE Released: Rebalancing Almost Complete!
Post by: ungulateman on September 15, 2010, 01:50:20 am
Heh. When I get my normal computer, back I think I'll get this mod and see how well it merges with Ironhand's graphics.

Until then, this is looking shiny and fun from back here.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod LITE Released: Rebalancing Almost Complete!
Post by: orcishwarrior on September 15, 2010, 11:33:25 am
epic mod. its definitely a mod i will be playing in all my forts, as goblins just are not good enough of a challenge. my only problem was the lack of graphics... so im making some! frogmen and stranglers are done, im going to try to finish them all up within a few days, is anyone interested in me finishing it/posting it up on dffd once done?

If you create graphics for this mod, I will link to them in the various OPs.

In other words, they would be greatly appreciated!

Blendecs are done, albeit they look more like minotaurs with deer skulls for heads....... naga will be done today, as well as (i hope, if i have enough time) the tigermen, hell maybe even elephants as they only need like 2-4 sprites, i might finish it up today, 

preview, frogmen

(http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/8007/frogmen.png)
Title: Re: [0.31.12/13] Fortress Defense Mod II: New Version Released!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 15, 2010, 11:02:28 pm
^I'm looking forward to seeing your finished sprites! Very nice work so far!

---

New release! I've added three new civs, including the two I temporarily removed in the previous version release, as challenges for those who think the other civs are easily handled (if such people exist). Feel free to download it, because the three extra civs are installed separately from the rest of the mod.

After this release, I'm decently happy with the progress of the mod. I might put up a chart with the arrival times of enemy civs. Also, people should feel free to edit civs in the mod or add and remove them as they see fit.

Since Toady One changed how world gen works in the latest version, I'm a bit wary of how that will affect the process of tracking thirteen extra civs in game, but I managed to generate a world with all thirteen with no problem (only 25 years of world gen and a world population of 775 though >_>). I would stick to large or medium regions with 25 civilizations, however. Therefore, I think Fortress Defense should be compatible with both .12 and .13.

Title: Re: [0.31.12/13] Fortress Defense Mod II: New Version Released!
Post by: orcishwarrior on September 15, 2010, 11:15:59 pm
New release! I've added three new civs, including the two I temporarily removed in the previous version

*facepalm* three more races to draw  :'( 
Title: Re: [0.31.12/13] Fortress Defense Mod II: New Version Released!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 15, 2010, 11:24:26 pm
New release! I've added three new civs, including the two I temporarily removed in the previous version

*facepalm* three more races to draw  :'(

Luckily, the last one only comes in wrestler flavor   ;D
Title: Re: [0.31.12/13] Fortress Defense Mod II: New Version Released!
Post by: orcishwarrior on September 15, 2010, 11:43:32 pm
New release! I've added three new civs, including the two I temporarily removed in the previous version

*facepalm* three more races to draw  :'(

Luckily, the last one only comes in wrestler flavor   ;D
yay!
all should be done tomorrow, or.... soonish i guess
Title: Re: [0.31.12/13] Fortress Defense Mod II: New Version Released!
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 18, 2010, 04:00:23 pm
Science time - I'm going to copy your giant civ and replace the [CREATURE:JOTUNFD] with [CREATURE:DEMON_1], then gen and see what happens.

EDIT: Fuck, doesn't work. I want demons sieging me from all directions!
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod LITE Released: Rebalancing Almost Complete!
Post by: Leonidas on September 19, 2010, 02:09:16 am
Alright, I have released the Fortress Defense Lite version. I am now compiling the removed races into a separate file along with a new challenge race for those who find the Lite mod easy.

That's good.  In the previous version, I was facing five simultaneous sieges in the fall of my second year.  Stranglers, war blendecs, furies, nightwings, and thunder giants all coming down on just 34 dwarves.  I try to keep an "open door" policy and greet all my invaders personally, but that was just ridiculous.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod LITE Released: Rebalancing Almost Complete!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 20, 2010, 01:56:25 pm
Alright, I have released the Fortress Defense Lite version. I am now compiling the removed races into a separate file along with a new challenge race for those who find the Lite mod easy.

That's good.  In the previous version, I was facing five simultaneous sieges in the fall of my second year.  Stranglers, war blendecs, furies, nightwings, and thunder giants all coming down on just 34 dwarves.  I try to keep an "open door" policy and greet all my invaders personally, but that was just ridiculous.

Yes. I have reorganized the progress triggers so that this can be avoided if you avoid trading as well. The mod should give you sufficient time to get defenses up before the armor-wearing stuff comes to tear you to shreds.

Science time - I'm going to copy your giant civ and replace the [CREATURE:JOTUNFD] with [CREATURE:DEMON_1], then gen and see what happens.

EDIT: Fuck, doesn't work. I want demons sieging me from all directions!

You could always make the demons yourself...although that would be a lot of work and they probably wouldn't be made of steam.

Also, college has just begun for me, and things might be getting very busy around here, so I might not make any more significant changes to the mod in the near future.
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod LITE Released: Rebalancing Almost Complete!
Post by: Leonidas on September 20, 2010, 04:02:30 pm
Yes. I have reorganized the progress triggers so that this can be avoided if you avoid trading as well. The mod should give you sufficient time to get defenses up before the armor-wearing stuff comes to tear you to shreds.
Ah, so the trading is what did me in.  So will I still get migrants and not too many monsters if I have a lot of produced wealth but no exported wealth?
Title: Re: [0.31.12] Fortress Defense Mod LITE Released: Rebalancing Almost Complete!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 20, 2010, 08:48:14 pm
Yes. I have reorganized the progress triggers so that this can be avoided if you avoid trading as well. The mod should give you sufficient time to get defenses up before the armor-wearing stuff comes to tear you to shreds.
Ah, so the trading is what did me in.  So will I still get migrants and not too many monsters if I have a lot of produced wealth but no exported wealth?

This will hopefully be the case. Dwarf Fortress refuses to send sieges based on population triggers alone, and I had to choose between trade and production triggers. I picked trade because you can slowly improve your army through migrants and the re-smelting of metal looted from dead invaders without needing significant amounts of trade, but it's harder to build up a defense with a limit on home production.

Bear in mind though that Dwarf Fortress can sometimes be unpredictable (sometimes the population limit works, sometimes it doesn't, for instance) and the exact mechanics behind triggers are the result of mere trial and error rather than a precise dissection of the code.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/13] Fortress Defense Mod II: New Version Released!
Post by: sjaakwortel on September 21, 2010, 11:45:43 am
im trying to make this mod work, but for some reason the enemy civ's seem to die out pretty quick (tried one fort, but no sieges while i was at 120 pop). Can some1 give a seed that gives as many enemy civs as possible :D plz ?
Title: Re: [0.31.12/13] Fortress Defense Mod II: New Version Released!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 21, 2010, 08:28:45 pm
The world gen in 0.13 has some...problems for this mod. It is theoretically possible to generate a world with many enemy civs there, but the populations seem to be dramatically lower and thus imply greater fragility in the process of generating a world.

I would therefore recommending generating your world in 31.12.

I have some world gen tips which you should make sure are being considered:

First, don't generate an old world. I usually stop at 25 years.

Second, you almost certainly need to generate a region, not islands.

Third, you may want to up the number of civs that are spawned in the world gen parameters (20-> 25 etc.)

Fourth, when you embark, check the civs that have access to your embark location by pressing tab to make sure you have enemies.

Finally, this is the world gen of the fortress that provided the screen shot in the op:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [0.31.12/13] Fortress Defense Mod II: New Version Released!
Post by: orcishwarrior on September 22, 2010, 12:18:29 pm
sorry for the long delay of the graphics pack! it should be done today or tomorrow, only 4 races to go  :)
well, that and a little bit of tweaking to the already done races (races that are completely done= naga, blendec, frogmen, elephants, stranglers)
Title: Re: [0.31.12/13] Fortress Defense Mod II: New Version Released!
Post by: Seriyu on September 23, 2010, 07:45:51 pm
I don't seem to ever be encountering stranglers before tigermen/frogmen. I know they're there, I saw them when I started the fort, but I pretty much always get wrecked by the frog/tigermen beforehand. Maybe allow stranglers to invade in the first year? It's not like it's hard to embark with a couple of armor set's worth of leather.

I also think it's a bit strange that it goes from no equipment (stranglers) directly to bronze with mixed in steel (frogmen). Maybe frogmen should be copper with mixed in bronze?

With all the complaining done, this is an awesome mod, and I'm having a blast with it, despite being regularly wrecked by frogmen.  :P
Title: Re: [0.31.12/13] Fortress Defense Mod II: New Version Released!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 23, 2010, 09:38:27 pm
I don't seem to ever be encountering stranglers before tigermen/frogmen. I know they're there, I saw them when I started the fort, but I pretty much always get wrecked by the frog/tigermen beforehand. Maybe allow stranglers to invade in the first year? It's not like it's hard to embark with a couple of armor set's worth of leather.

I also think it's a bit strange that it goes from no equipment (stranglers) directly to bronze with mixed in steel (frogmen). Maybe frogmen should be copper with mixed in bronze?

With all the complaining done, this is an awesome mod, and I'm having a blast with it, despite being regularly wrecked by frogmen.  :P

Stranglers are still coming, correct? Otherwise, I can't guarantee the arrival of some races before others because Dwarf Fortress is partially a world simulator, and only partially a fortress-playing game. The randomness of the former component tends to influence the latter; if Frogmen and Tigermen are closer to the fort than stranglers, they'll come sooner.

Nevertheless, I have taken your feedback into consideration and made some slight changes for version 0.02. I had considered giving Frogmen wood for balance reasons, but giving them unmeltable armor just makes getting rid of their stuff a ridiculous hassle and a burden on long-term play.

Also, if anyone else encounters problems, report them, or I cannot respond to them!

sorry for the long delay of the graphics pack! it should be done today or tomorrow, only 4 races to go  :)
well, that and a little bit of tweaking to the already done races (races that are completely done= naga, blendec, frogmen, elephants, stranglers)

Good to hear this! Take your time, no pressure...
Title: Re: [0.31.12/14] Fortress Defense Mod II: Slight Bugfixes Done
Post by: Seriyu on September 24, 2010, 12:25:03 am
They showed up once in an older version of the mod, and even then frogmen showed up before them.

I'll try it with a fort closer to them this time and see what comes up.  :)

Edit: Yeah I started closer to them this time and even then frogmen got to me first. Closer to the top on the races screen on the world map means closer to the site, right?

If so then yeah. No stranglers.

Title: Re: [0.31.12/14] Fortress Defense Mod II: Slight Bugfixes Done
Post by: FleshForge on September 25, 2010, 04:01:53 pm
Since invaders seem to have been greatly nerfed in .13/.14 I've decided to give this famous mod a try, I miss the brutality and oceans of blood and barf on my doorstep!
Title: Re: [0.31.12/14] Fortress Defense Mod II: Slight Bugfixes Done
Post by: FleshForge on September 26, 2010, 06:18:45 pm
I didn't get any stranglers either, but otherwise this is a hilarious mod!  In winter of the third year I got an ambush of hellfire imps, and they completely destroyed my devilishly trapped entrance - wooden trap weapons burn and destroy the trap, word to the wise!  This is so much cooler than the base version!

edit: Ah I just now got some stranglers trying to get in, at the very end of year 3.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/14] Fortress Defense Mod II: Slight Bugfixes Done
Post by: FleshForge on September 27, 2010, 06:52:41 pm
My poor fort finally got overrun in about year 7 by a massive tide of stranglers on war bears, naga men riding camels with war jaguar escorts, and vile blendecs, total probably over 200 units at once.  While pretty hilarious, it was all a bit much - I know that's the point of the mod and it does that very well, but you might consider offering a more moderate combination also.  I had 2000 or so refuse pile space and it was constantly full of enemy body parts, I seriously couldn't make a dent in all the bone and loot even before I was defeated.  The pace of the vanilla game is a bit slow sometimes and it'd be nice if there was a middle ground between it and what you get with this mod.  Very fun to try though!
Title: Re: [0.31.12/14] Fortress Defense Mod II: Slight Bugfixes Done
Post by: darkflagrance on September 28, 2010, 01:25:19 am
What if I created a Fortress Defense Mod Lite II, with 1 civ of stranglers capable of attacking in all seasons, and then one or two civs for each season after say, 50 population?

This would prevent more than 2 civs at most (+ goblins) from attacking your fort at a given moment.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/14] Fortress Defense Mod II: Slight Bugfixes Done
Post by: hinkz on September 28, 2010, 01:31:16 am
I let my world gen too long, nearly 600 years and by year 6 i've never been attacked. :(

However, I do get some artifacts referencing the travels of various white tigermen, lol. I'll have to delve into the legends when this fortress dies to see what happened.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/14] Fortress Defense Mod II: Slight Bugfixes Done
Post by: darkflagrance on September 28, 2010, 04:39:08 am
I let my world gen too long, nearly 600 years and by year 6 i've never been attacked. :(

However, I do get some artifacts referencing the travels of various white tigermen, lol. I'll have to delve into the legends when this fortress dies to see what happened.

Did you check when you embarked to make sure you had enemy civs?

What you could do is copy the file, abandon the fort, and then try a new embark near where your fort generated.

Another thing you need to consider is whether you generated your fort on an island map or a continental map. Island maps tend to cut off a lot of civs from your fort due to oceans.

Finally, even if some more powerful civs have access to your fort, you need to engage in a significant volume of trade to trigger them.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/14] Fortress Defense Mod II: Slight Bugfixes Done
Post by: FleshForge on September 28, 2010, 12:36:17 pm
I'm pretty convinced that if you gen the world in .14, you get invaders on a very slow schedule (if at all) regardless of what the embark screen says - not any fault of your mod.  Genning in .12 and converting to .14 worked well though.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/14] Fortress Defense Mod II: Slight Bugfixes Done
Post by: hinkz on September 28, 2010, 01:08:14 pm
Okay, did the test embark and I have as neighboring civs:
Dwarves
Great Fiend Spiders
Frogmen
Nagas
Furies
Werewolves
White Tigermen
Goblins
Putrid Blendecs
Humans
Minotaurossi
Elves
War Elephants
Jotunar

I checked, and it's been a little over 5 years since I've embarked, I have 100 dwarves, a twelve mil or more in created wealth, but only 200k in imported/exported. I've never had an ambush or siege, a few forgotten beasts, one ettin, and one cyclops. I get human, elf, and dwarf caravens every year.

Not sure what is causing this, odd?
Title: Re: [0.31.12/14] Fortress Defense Mod II: Slight Bugfixes Done
Post by: FleshForge on September 28, 2010, 03:22:29 pm
Did you gen the world in .14?
Title: Re: [0.31.12/14] Fortress Defense Mod II: Slight Bugfixes Done
Post by: darkflagrance on September 28, 2010, 07:59:47 pm
This is the problem (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=66617.0)

Something's up with .13/.14 world gen, perhaps goblins are hesitant to come, perhaps siege numbers are drawn from actual populations now. Whatever the problem, worlds generated in 0.13/0.14 are very unlikely to be capable of invading your fort.

In any case, it is as I feared, and .14 world gen does screw with the viability of this mod, and sieges in general.

I will update the OP.

Incidentally, the day that the conscripts who siege your fortress are drawn from world gen'd historical figures will be the day that successors to the idea of a "Relentless Assault" become defunct.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/14] Fortress Defense Mod II: Slight Bugfixes Done
Post by: EddyP on September 29, 2010, 04:57:43 am
Is it possible to get this with the Mayday tileset?

EDIT: Ignore me.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/14] Fortress Defense Mod II: Slight Bugfixes Done
Post by: EddyP on September 30, 2010, 05:44:36 am
A quick heads-up - the frogmen are wielding anything but wood. Some of them even have steel.
And the tigermen have flails. Fort over.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/14] Fortress Defense Mod II: Slight Bugfixes Done
Post by: Leonidas on September 30, 2010, 12:36:40 pm
I'm running a game in 31.14, and the latest version of this mod, without the challenge pack.  World gen went fine.  I had plenty of enemy civs, plus two dwarf civs and one elf civ.

And I'm getting plenty of invasions.  I got a wave of strangler wrestlers my first summer, then strangler wrestlers on war tigers my first autumn.  I knew this was hardcore, so I did pretty much nothing but crank out armor and lock dwarves in danger rooms.  I cut up all the stranglers and their mounts, and ended up with over 100 juicy tiger steaks.  But the autumn invasion apparently blocked out the first caravan, because I heard nothing from the mountainhome.

Now it's the beginning of my second year, middle of late spring.  I didn't get any spring migrants, presumably because I missed my autumn caravan.  And nine thunder giants just showed up to party, in metal armor.  My population is 18.

The overall problem with the mod that all these civs interact so unpredictably that it's difficult to see any pattern in all the variability.  Sometimes no invasions, sometimes crazy invasions. 

For now, maybe the best approach with this mod is to generate a world that produces the civs you want and the invasion rate you want.  Let users download that world along with your mod.  Leave for later the task of making a mod that will consistently generate that sort of world.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/14] Fortress Defense Mod II: Slight Bugfixes Done
Post by: darkflagrance on September 30, 2010, 05:23:36 pm
A quick heads-up - the frogmen are wielding anything but wood. Some of them even have steel.
And the tigermen have flails. Fort over.

Old description in the first post has been edited. I did note the change, just forgot to actually write it in.\\
I'm running a game in 31.14, and the latest version of this mod, without the challenge pack.  World gen went fine.  I had plenty of enemy civs, plus two dwarf civs and one elf civ.

And I'm getting plenty of invasions.  I got a wave of strangler wrestlers my first summer, then strangler wrestlers on war tigers my first autumn.  I knew this was hardcore, so I did pretty much nothing but crank out armor and lock dwarves in danger rooms.  I cut up all the stranglers and their mounts, and ended up with over 100 juicy tiger steaks.  But the autumn invasion apparently blocked out the first caravan, because I heard nothing from the mountainhome.

Now it's the beginning of my second year, middle of late spring.  I didn't get any spring migrants, presumably because I missed my autumn caravan.  And nine thunder giants just showed up to party, in metal armor.  My population is 18.

The overall problem with the mod that all these civs interact so unpredictably that it's difficult to see any pattern in all the variability.  Sometimes no invasions, sometimes crazy invasions. 

For now, maybe the best approach with this mod is to generate a world that produces the civs you want and the invasion rate you want.  Let users download that world along with your mod.  Leave for later the task of making a mod that will consistently generate that sort of world.

Based on the fact that nine  nine thunder giants showed up, I think you downloaded the original version, which is up as a kind of legacy. Thunder giants are not in the most current Fortress Defense mod version, as they have been replaced by a more expanded version of their race with a different name.

Another thing is that the current version should prevent Stranglers from arriving in the autumn, but this restriction was not imposed in the original fortress defense mod.

I think one problem is that I haven't clearly indicated to people how to change the difficulty, so I'm going to clarify this shortly.

Stay tuned!

EDIT: This is the basic version you wished to dowload. http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3197 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3197)

In this version, I've also deleted whip-like weapons from Tigermen and returned wooden equipment to frogs. The Challenge Mode files remain unchanged, of course.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/14] Fortress Defense Mod II: Slight Bugfixes Done
Post by: FleshForge on September 30, 2010, 06:09:19 pm
What if I created a Fortress Defense Mod Lite II, with 1 civ of stranglers capable of attacking in all seasons, and then one or two civs for each season after say, 50 population?

This would prevent more than 2 civs at most (+ goblins) from attacking your fort at a given moment.

Duh, somehow I completely missed your response even though I have been keeping an eye on the thread!  I don't really know what other people might think, but if I understand how your mod works, then you could just split the files up a bit more and offer some more granularity in what is going to invade based on what files are copied in.  Rather than a bunch of drastic tuning changes, just cut the blocks of text for a set of civs grouped in whatever way you see fit, and paste them into new files, which a user can copy in or not as they prefer.  This seems like a simple option and wouldn't take a lot of labor, if it actually works the way I think it does.

If you're interested in doing some more labor, then yeah some tuning of how often stuff comes at you and probably some control of how many sieges can hit you at the same time would be nice, but I have no idea how much work that would be.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/14] Fortress Defense Mod II: Slight Bugfixes Done
Post by: darkflagrance on September 30, 2010, 06:14:58 pm
What if I created a Fortress Defense Mod Lite II, with 1 civ of stranglers capable of attacking in all seasons, and then one or two civs for each season after say, 50 population?

This would prevent more than 2 civs at most (+ goblins) from attacking your fort at a given moment.

Duh, somehow I completely missed your response even though I have been keeping an eye on the thread!  I don't really know what other people might think, but if I understand how your mod works, then you could just split the files up a bit more and offer some more granularity in what is going to invade based on what files are copied in.  Rather than a bunch of drastic tuning changes, just cut the blocks of text for a set of civs grouped in whatever way you see fit, and paste them into new files, which a user can copy in or not as they prefer.  This seems like a simple option and wouldn't take a lot of labor, if it actually works the way I think it does.

If you're interested in doing some more labor, then yeah some tuning of how often stuff comes at you and probably some control of how many sieges can hit you at the same time would be nice, but I have no idea how much work that would be.

I'm pretty sure that Dwarf Fortress is too procedural and random at the moment, and our controls far too limited, to allow civs to attack like this.

However, it should be a relatively simple task to, say, give every civ its own set of files, split them up into winter, spring, etc. civs, and so on. The only question is whether the resultant system would be too complex for people to quickly understand.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/14] Fortress Defense Mod II: Slight Bugfixes Done
Post by: FleshForge on September 30, 2010, 06:52:12 pm
I don't think you need to worry about learning curve, as the game itself has a pretty vertical one ;)
Title: Re: [0.31.12/14] Fortress Defense Mod II: Slight Bugfixes Done
Post by: EddyP on October 01, 2010, 04:32:30 am
A quick heads-up - the frogmen are wielding anything but wood. Some of them even have steel.
And the tigermen have flails. Fort over.

Old description in the first post has been edited. I did note the change, just forgot to actually write it in.\\
I'm running a game in 31.14, and the latest version of this mod, without the challenge pack.  World gen went fine.  I had plenty of enemy civs, plus two dwarf civs and one elf civ.

And I'm getting plenty of invasions.  I got a wave of strangler wrestlers my first summer, then strangler wrestlers on war tigers my first autumn.  I knew this was hardcore, so I did pretty much nothing but crank out armor and lock dwarves in danger rooms.  I cut up all the stranglers and their mounts, and ended up with over 100 juicy tiger steaks.  But the autumn invasion apparently blocked out the first caravan, because I heard nothing from the mountainhome.

Now it's the beginning of my second year, middle of late spring.  I didn't get any spring migrants, presumably because I missed my autumn caravan.  And nine thunder giants just showed up to party, in metal armor.  My population is 18.

The overall problem with the mod that all these civs interact so unpredictably that it's difficult to see any pattern in all the variability.  Sometimes no invasions, sometimes crazy invasions. 

For now, maybe the best approach with this mod is to generate a world that produces the civs you want and the invasion rate you want.  Let users download that world along with your mod.  Leave for later the task of making a mod that will consistently generate that sort of world.

Based on the fact that nine  nine thunder giants showed up, I think you downloaded the original version, which is up as a kind of legacy. Thunder giants are not in the most current Fortress Defense mod version, as they have been replaced by a more expanded version of their race with a different name.

Another thing is that the current version should prevent Stranglers from arriving in the autumn, but this restriction was not imposed in the original fortress defense mod.

I think one problem is that I haven't clearly indicated to people how to change the difficulty, so I'm going to clarify this shortly.

Stay tuned!

EDIT: This is the basic version you wished to dowload. http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3197 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3197)

In this version, I've also deleted whip-like weapons from Tigermen and returned wooden equipment to frogs. The Challenge Mode files remain unchanged, of course.

Thanks! Can I download the new version and edit the raws in my savegame?
Title: Re: [0.31.12/14] Fortress Defense Mod II: Slight Bugfixes Done
Post by: darkflagrance on October 01, 2010, 04:42:47 am
This Basic version is from the updated version of the mod. If my suspicions are correct about the version you downloaded, and you'll be willing to confirm this by telling me whether you can be attacked by Tigermen and Hellfire Imps by checking the raws of your current save, you downloaded an archaic version of this mod that is incompatible.

The problem is your game has creatures in it that aren't supposed to be in the Basic version. This means that you'll have to generate a new world before new raws apply.

If you wish to soften the difficulty of your current save, I recommend either deleting the progress triggers for the civs that you fear, or else changing the creature raws themselves so that the enemies aren't as large and therefore tough.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/14] Fortress Defense Mod II: Slight Bugfixes Done
Post by: EddyP on October 01, 2010, 05:16:45 am
This Basic version is from the updated version of the mod. If my suspicions are correct about the version you downloaded, and you'll be willing to confirm this by telling me whether you can be attacked by Tigermen and Hellfire Imps by checking the raws of your current save, you downloaded an archaic version of this mod that is incompatible.

The problem is your game has creatures in it that aren't supposed to be in the Basic version. This means that you'll have to generate a new world before new raws apply.

If you wish to soften the difficulty of your current save, I recommend either deleting the progress triggers for the civs that you fear, or else changing the creature raws themselves so that the enemies aren't as large and therefore tough.

Yep, Tigermen and Hellfire imps are here.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/14] Fortress Defense Mod II: Slight Bugfixes Done
Post by: darkflagrance on October 01, 2010, 08:36:44 am
This Basic version is from the updated version of the mod. If my suspicions are correct about the version you downloaded, and you'll be willing to confirm this by telling me whether you can be attacked by Tigermen and Hellfire Imps by checking the raws of your current save, you downloaded an archaic version of this mod that is incompatible.

The problem is your game has creatures in it that aren't supposed to be in the Basic version. This means that you'll have to generate a new world before new raws apply.

If you wish to soften the difficulty of your current save, I recommend either deleting the progress triggers for the civs that you fear, or else changing the creature raws themselves so that the enemies aren't as large and therefore tough.

Yep, Tigermen and Hellfire imps are here.

Well, the other thing is that changes to equipment don't take effect without a regen, unfortunately...my other recommendations still stand though.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/14] Fortress Defense Mod II: Slight Bugfixes Done
Post by: FleshForge on October 01, 2010, 01:10:19 pm
You know what, forget that request I had made earlier, I realize that if it's easy for you to cut out blocks of entity_fortdefense.txt, it's easy for me (or any user) to do as well.  You might just note this in the instructions and that's all.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/14] Fortress Defense Mod II: Slight Bugfixes Done
Post by: darkflagrance on October 02, 2010, 10:53:36 pm
Quote from: Toady One
This should be fixed up for 0.31.15. It thought they were lizardmen or something and was waiting for you to irritate their cave feature.

Looks like invader bugs will be fixed next release, meaning that this mod should be compatible with 31.15, at least!
Title: Re: [0.31.12/14] Fortress Defense Mod II: Slight Bugfixes Done
Post by: FleshForge on October 03, 2010, 06:52:49 pm
Since 31.15 is now out I'll give it a try with your mod - I don't figure any changes are necessary eh?
update: something's amiss with .15, it seems to be pausing briefly about every second, to an uncomfortable degree :/
Title: Re: [0.31.12/14] Fortress Defense Mod II: Slight Bugfixes Done
Post by: darkflagrance on October 04, 2010, 04:53:30 am
Supposedly the next version's coming out in a few hours. Might be better to check that one out instead.

Incidentally, some of the races in this mod, like Elephants and Stranglers, already incorporated my own fixes to some of the raw errors fixed this version.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Basic/Challenge Split
Post by: FleshForge on October 04, 2010, 02:08:10 pm
And here it is :)  Considering the nature of your mod and how well it worked in .13/.14 (perfectly) I'm sure it'll be fine.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Basic/Challenge Split
Post by: FleshForge on October 05, 2010, 06:10:27 am
Genned entirely in 31.16, the fruity fortress of Bunnyflower has made it through the first year and the first invasion of stranglers (fought them barehanded) - no problems, seems to work fine for newly-genned worlds.  I did stop history at year 50 but otherwise made few changes to worldgen options.

update: autumn of year 3 and three sieges hit me at around the same time, stranglers, tigermen and frogmen on various mounts - all seems to be well :)
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Basic/Challenge Split
Post by: EddyP on October 05, 2010, 05:42:41 pm
Summer of year two (2), and I'm under siege by five groups - two groups of tigermen, ALL on giant war cats, one group of war leopards (not sure who they came with), one group of frogmen and one group of stranglers. The massive amount of war cats seems like a bit of a bug, especially the cat-only group.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Basic/Challenge Split
Post by: darkflagrance on October 05, 2010, 06:30:56 pm
The war animals arriving unaccompanied is a feature of vanilla DF; goblins may come with squads of war giant olms, for example.

Although, war cats are a bit of an unusual circumstance.

Similarly, war animals or war mounts are hard-coded into the game. They are generally tied randomly to the leaders of civs during world gen. Unfortunately, no tag that I know of exists to prevent civs from bringing war beasts, although killing their leaders will end the arrival of said war animals.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Basic/Challenge Split
Post by: Zaik on October 07, 2010, 01:03:32 am
Haven't managed to survive FPS wise to see the spider civ yet, but i have got to say those giants are a pain if you don't have any blunt weapon users trained.

I couldn't figure out why i was having so much trouble killing them, then i realized that because they're so big, their armor is made so thick that even exceptional/masterwork Adamantine axes and swords can be deflected entirely by their no-quality large bismuth bronze stuff. seems like the only place they can penetrate it is the lower arms.


Edit: Not complaining, i thought it was really cool actually, i hadn't used a blunt weapon squad in i don't know how long,
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Basic/Challenge Split
Post by: apatters on October 08, 2010, 06:48:36 am
Hmm, I installed this mod over the 31.16/Mayday package that's available on these forums, and have gen'ed two worlds which I've let run for about two years each. No invaders yet in either one. In both cases there were tons of civilizations listed on the embark screen.

Is it possible that invasions are still bugged in the new version? I'm dying to play this mod.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Basic/Challenge Split
Post by: darkflagrance on October 08, 2010, 10:58:48 am
Hmm, I installed this mod over the 31.16/Mayday package that's available on these forums, and have gen'ed two worlds which I've let run for about two years each. No invaders yet in either one. In both cases there were tons of civilizations listed on the embark screen.

Is it possible that invasions are still bugged in the new version? I'm dying to play this mod.

I think Fleshforge and others have confirmed that invaders work in 31.16.

I personally am under a heavy workload and can't check myself right now.

Make sure that invaders are turned on, and try to increase your population numbers or engage in trade. Maybe your world didn't generate the earliest civs for some reason, but will still send the slightly later ones to eat you.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Basic/Challenge Split
Post by: SalmonGod on October 08, 2010, 01:52:11 pm
Invaders work in .16.  I saw a thief or two around the end of my 2nd year.  Third year produced my first siege of dark stranglers.  Beginning of my 5th year just nearly wiped out my military and burned down my trade depot.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Basic/Challenge Split
Post by: apatters on October 08, 2010, 07:50:55 pm
If a civilization isn't listed on the embark screen, is there still a chance they may invade? In my latest embark there were only 3-4 listed and I'm wondering if that has an effect.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Basic/Challenge Split
Post by: FleshForge on October 09, 2010, 02:22:08 am
I've fiddled with maybe 10 maps under .16 and all have had the expected invaders (kobolds around late year 1, first ambush around year 2, if you trade heavily you get sieged early, etc).  Your geography can limit who is able to reach you, and yes this is shown on the embark screen -> tab (Civilizations); only the listed civilizations will ever siege you, with the exception of kobolds, who are never listed.  Whether they will come visit you is a different question, I believe they have to be alive in the world population, but they just aren't ever listed on the embark screen.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Basic/Challenge Split
Post by: darkflagrance on October 09, 2010, 03:12:10 am
If a civilization isn't listed on the embark screen, is there still a chance they may invade? In my latest embark there were only 3-4 listed and I'm wondering if that has an effect.

Yeah, if there're only 3-4 listed, only those 3-4 will attack.

Make sure you're generating onto a region map, not an island map. Island maps have a tendency to cut civs off from your fort even if all of the mod's civs get placed and survive. I hate the fact that the default map setting is on island.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Basic/Challenge Split
Post by: Zaik on October 10, 2010, 07:25:48 pm
Another funny story, I caught the general of the white tigerman army, and the kennels let me tame him. Afterwards, he was known as something like Amslu Kolinxu, Stray General. I went to dump him in a pit and he was immediately hostile and behaved like a wild animal or thief, had to be chased down and killed.

Also, a War Elephant Wrestler just had War Elephant Calves that I can also tame. I assume they're going to behave the same though.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Basic/Challenge Split
Post by: darkflagrance on October 10, 2010, 09:45:41 pm
Also, a War Elephant Wrestler just had War Elephant Calves that I can also tame. I assume they're going to behave the same though.

Try it anyway for Fun! I kinda hoped that the taming of the children of sieging races would result in pets because the civ of the babies shouldn't be the same as the civ of the parents.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Basic/Challenge Split
Post by: Zaik on October 10, 2010, 11:06:52 pm
Also, a War Elephant Wrestler just had War Elephant Calves that I can also tame. I assume they're going to behave the same though.

Try it anyway for Fun! I kinda hoped that the taming of the children of sieging races would result in pets because the civ of the babies shouldn't be the same as the civ of the parents.

The fort in question was running on single digit fps and before i thought to try relesing them i went downstairs and the clowns wiped out my military with syndromes that caused bleeding deaths despite the dwarves not actually bleeding out anywhere visible.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Basic/Challenge Split
Post by: Neyvn on October 11, 2010, 06:11:51 pm
Sounds interesting, put the files straight into Raw Objects???
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Basic/Challenge Split
Post by: FleshForge on October 12, 2010, 01:23:12 am
Yes, just the two files for the basic version or the others for the harder version.  The instructions were pretty clear I thought :)
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Basic/Challenge Split
Post by: FleshForge on October 15, 2010, 03:28:29 am
I have a wave of hellfire imps swimming in my magma moat - that really surprised me :)  Let's see if they swimm through obsidian as well!
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Basic/Challenge Split
Post by: ZaZ on October 15, 2010, 05:47:37 am
I have a wave of hellfire imps swimming in my magma moat - that really surprised me :)  Let's see if they swimm through obsidian as well!

First time I saw these I was like 'aww these look small and harmless OH GOD THEY THROW FIRE OH GOD OH GOD OH GOD' luckily only one of my axedwarves got burnt to a crisp before two archery squads above my walls cut down the ambushers. A quarter of the map was burnt though as they ran away.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Basic/Challenge Split
Post by: darkflagrance on October 15, 2010, 08:47:46 am
The wiki cautions that magma moats don't work against magma-traveling enemies.

But other than denizens of magma pipes, those don't really exist in vanilla, so I thought I'd add them to the game, hehe.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Basic/Challenge Split
Post by: kilakan on October 15, 2010, 08:52:49 am
hum I've gotten to year 5 with all civs listed on embark, heavy trading, and huge wealth and pop, and so far only kobolds and dwarves, it seems to be bugged, but randomly.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Basic/Challenge Split
Post by: darkflagrance on October 15, 2010, 10:55:13 am
hum I've gotten to year 5 with all civs listed on embark, heavy trading, and huge wealth and pop, and so far only kobolds and dwarves, it seems to be bugged, but randomly.

Not even human or elven caravans?
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Basic/Challenge Split
Post by: TurkeyXIII on October 15, 2010, 11:10:13 am
Fiend spiders have difficulty biting through bronze armour.  Thank God, else those two that got in would've wiped my entire fort. :o
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Basic/Challenge Split
Post by: FleshForge on October 15, 2010, 03:26:48 pm
This reminds me, I have never gotten a human caravan in 31.16.  Currently in year 6 in one fort, but this has happened with all the others I've tried too.  I can see humans on the embark screen, but they never come visit.  Doesn't really bother me because there's always a lot of OTHER visitors, but this does seem to be a trend.

edit: huh, I guess they just come a lot later now, or maybe their civilization didn't have leaders for it - here they are in year 7!
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Basic/Challenge Split
Post by: darkflagrance on October 15, 2010, 05:28:51 pm
This reminds me, I have never gotten a human caravan in 31.16.  Currently in year 6 in one fort, but this has happened with all the others I've tried too.  I can see humans on the embark screen, but they never come visit.  Doesn't really bother me because there's always a lot of OTHER visitors, but this does seem to be a trend.

edit: huh, I guess they just come a lot later now, or maybe their civilization didn't have leaders for it - here they are in year 7!

More likely it was that the constant sieges prevented a human caravan from arriving; I prevented the early civs from coming in autumn so at least the dwarven caravan could come.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Basic/Challenge Split
Post by: Zaik on October 16, 2010, 10:06:54 am
Alright, i had a pregnant white tigerwoman give birth to white tigerman cubs, and i remembered you mentioning taming them eariler.

I gave it a shot (http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/1033/swtc.png), and it went about as poorly as taming invader animals does. You end up with a hostile(listed as Tame though, with invading mounts they remain "Invader", i think?) that functions like a wild animal/thief for the purposes of animal hauling.

Interestingly enough, though, the tigerman cub was instantly freed from its cage as soon as it was tamed. That's new. Ended up having to use dfliquids to trap it in obsidian since i don't actually have a military yet.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Basic/Challenge Split
Post by: darkflagrance on October 16, 2010, 10:44:24 am
Alright, i had a pregnant white tigerwoman give birth to white tigerman cubs, and i remembered you mentioning taming them eariler.

I gave it a shot (http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/1033/swtc.png), and it went about as poorly as taming invader animals does. You end up with a hostile(listed as Tame though, with invading mounts they remain "Invader", i think?) that functions like a wild animal/thief for the purposes of animal hauling.

Interestingly enough, though, the tigerman cub was instantly freed from its cage as soon as it was tamed. That's new. Ended up having to use dfliquids to trap it in obsidian since i don't actually have a military yet.

Thank you for your contributions to science! I shall have to remember not to attempt something like that.

Well, at least you can still breed the children, and then drop them off buildings so they'd be butcherable and make roasts out of them. That's what I was planning to do, at any rate...but I think vanilla dwarves might not eat sentients - this depends on whether the game counts sentients as those who can speak or those who can learn.

Have you tried cooking up any Tigerman Cub meals yet?
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Basic/Challenge Split
Post by: Zaik on October 16, 2010, 11:21:54 am
Alright, i had a pregnant white tigerwoman give birth to white tigerman cubs, and i remembered you mentioning taming them eariler.

I gave it a shot (http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/1033/swtc.png), and it went about as poorly as taming invader animals does. You end up with a hostile(listed as Tame though, with invading mounts they remain "Invader", i think?) that functions like a wild animal/thief for the purposes of animal hauling.

Interestingly enough, though, the tigerman cub was instantly freed from its cage as soon as it was tamed. That's new. Ended up having to use dfliquids to trap it in obsidian since i don't actually have a military yet.

Thank you for your contributions to science! I shall have to remember not to attempt something like that.

Well, at least you can still breed the children, and then drop them off buildings so they'd be butcherable and make roasts out of them. That's what I was planning to do, at any rate...but I think vanilla dwarves might not eat sentients - this depends on whether the game counts sentients as those who can speak or those who can learn.

Have you tried cooking up any Tigerman Cub meals yet?

Still no military, just finishing up armor for six so i'll know here in an hour or two.

However, having butchered normal tigermen(and snail/slugmen) i can tell you that you can butcher them if tamed, however the meat doesn't count on the z menu(i don't think? Possible that it was such a small amount i didn't notice though) and i've never seen it in cooked form before.

Edit: These things work exactly like hostile wild animals/thieves. The second they get out of their cage military will kill them and any cilvilian doing anything around them, including hauling them, runs like hell, so there's no real way to turn them into cattle, from what I can tell.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Basic/Challenge Split
Post by: darkflagrance on October 17, 2010, 12:11:50 am
Edit: These things work exactly like hostile wild animals/thieves. The second they get out of their cage military will kill them and any cilvilian doing anything around them, including hauling them, runs like hell, so there's no real way to turn them into cattle, from what I can tell.

I've heard of a 40d fort that breed the unicorn mounts leftover after a broken elf siege, locked each one in an individual 1x1 cell, then released them when the mother had kids to be captured in individual cage traps, from which several could be butchered by the military and turned into roasts.

Dunno if that still works in this version.

---New Update---

I've taken Fleshforge's suggestion and created files that only contain one entity, so that the user can mix and match the entities he desires. The creature files are still undifferentiated, because the game won't generate the extra ones if the appropriate entity doesn't exist, so there's no need to.

I haven't made any other major changes because there don't seem to be any major bugs or outstanding requests.

I also rewrote the readme so that it includes an index of the attacking civs, including a table of the seasons in which enemy civs attack. I've included it in this post.


===Seasonal Schedule of Attacks:

      Spring   Summer   Autumn   Winter
Stranglers   x   x      x
Frogmen      x   x      x
Tigermen           x   x   x   x
Blendecs           x      x   
Nagas      x   x      
Furies      x   x   x   
Hellfire Imps   x      x   x
Warwolves         x   x
Elephants              x   x   
Nightwings      x      x


***Challenge Mode enemies come in all seasons***


Edit: it'll only come up right if you quote it.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Basic/Challenge Split
Post by: FleshForge on October 17, 2010, 12:24:40 am
Dang, I JUST rolled a new map.  Guess I will mess with this new version on the next play!

I'll admit I have decided to nerf hellfire imps, after the third time they vaporized a year's worth of entrance construction, even with 100% magma safe materials, I guess their fire breath is a bit too macho for me.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Basic/Challenge Split
Post by: darkflagrance on October 17, 2010, 12:27:18 am
Dang, I JUST rolled a new map.  Guess I will mess with this new version on the next play!

I'll admit I have decided to nerf hellfire imps, after the third time they vaporized a year's worth of entrance construction, even with 100% magma safe materials, I guess their fire breath is a bit too macho for me.

There's actually nothing really new except the fact that it's easier now to install the mod without a civ you find too difficult.

Though I might increase the tier of hellfire imps next release and maybe remove their whips.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: FleshForge on October 17, 2010, 02:20:59 am
Yeah I realize it's not new, just I finally wimped out and nerfed them like I wimped out on aquifers.  I'm not suggesting you change them, just admitting they are too beaucoup for me  :'(

I'll also take a moment to whine about flying units going right over my walls in year 2 (frogmen on giant war eagles) - there is a lot of luck involved, for my part mostly bad, and flying war eagles has only happened to me one time out of about ten.  I guess mounts are selected randomly based on the biome of the invader's civilization, which is pretty spiffy even if they mashed me.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Basic/Challenge Split
Post by: Zaik on October 17, 2010, 06:44:40 am
Edit: These things work exactly like hostile wild animals/thieves. The second they get out of their cage military will kill them and any cilvilian doing anything around them, including hauling them, runs like hell, so there's no real way to turn them into cattle, from what I can tell.

I've heard of a 40d fort that breed the unicorn mounts leftover after a broken elf siege, locked each one in an individual 1x1 cell, then released them when the mother had kids to be captured in individual cage traps, from which several could be butchered by the military and turned into roasts.

Dunno if that still works in this version.

It would, but butchers won't butcher corpses of sentient creatures(without making cannibalism acceptable in the mountain entity), so you end up right where you started.

It would have been easier to tie the unicorn mothers up to a restraint though, and put cage traps outside it, so you don't have to keep freeing the mother over and over.

In other news, the cub does not get thirsty or hungry. That's probably normal, due to it's semi-invader status.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: FleshForge on October 17, 2010, 09:01:16 pm
What is it about naga man corpses that makes nobody want to pick them up and stockpile them?
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: SalmonGod on October 17, 2010, 09:16:03 pm
What is it about naga man corpses that makes nobody want to pick them up and stockpile them?

Snakes are icky!

*vomit*

*track vomit all over the place*
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: FleshForge on October 17, 2010, 09:41:27 pm
Ah it was just that everyone was too busy to get to it for quite a while, all is well :)
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: celem on October 18, 2010, 07:56:10 am
Well im halfway through year 2 on my first FortDefense attempt, in .16.

Not much yet though at this early stage i guess thats expected, a thief or 2 but no ambushes, everything is alive and was on embark screen so i guess i'll wait for it.

Curious though.....Tigermen just arrived as a merchant caravan, was a little surprised, do i have to genocide the merchants of these new races to get a war going or something?  I had thought from the first page that these were all hostile goblin-like races
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: darkflagrance on October 18, 2010, 09:14:07 am
Well im halfway through year 2 on my first FortDefense attempt, in .16.

Not much yet though at this early stage i guess thats expected, a thief or 2 but no ambushes, everything is alive and was on embark screen so i guess i'll wait for it.

Curious though.....Tigermen just arrived as a merchant caravan, was a little surprised, do i have to genocide the merchants of these new races to get a war going or something?  I had thought from the first page that these were all hostile goblin-like races

That's kinda random...they should be hostile by default since they can't communicate with dwarves without [CAN_SPEAK]...it's up to you, I guess, whether to massacre them or allow them to be impromptu allies. What do their merchants bring, anyway?
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: celem on October 18, 2010, 10:30:31 am
Was interesting actually.  Lot of cloth and leather bins, some metal bars.  Better pickings overall than the crappy elves who showed up immediately after.  Also appropriately enough a considerable amount of polar bear leather in the bins
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: darkflagrance on October 18, 2010, 12:58:01 pm
Was interesting actually.  Lot of cloth and leather bins, some metal bars.  Better pickings overall than the crappy elves who showed up immediately after.  Also appropriately enough a considerable amount of polar bear leather in the bins

Another question for testing purposes: did the tigerman merchants have names?

It's hard to know whether this is part of the game itself or just part of defective raws.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: celem on October 18, 2010, 04:24:24 pm
They were already off the map but i found them on my last seasonal save.

Merchants were named, they brought the usual food, cloth, leather.
Also more usefully they brought many anvils, iron weapons/armor (large), gems, caged animals, diamonds, trap components, some useful bars...the works
2 caravan guards, an axeman and hammerman

I have them in the depot on a seasonal save anyway if you need anything else....only modifications i have made are noexotics and addition of healing rate to nervous tissues

edit: oh and they arrived spring my guess since they are absent at the start of spring and sharing a depot with elves at start of summer

Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: darkflagrance on October 18, 2010, 04:45:06 pm
If you take the time to upload the depot save, I'll take a look at the raws. It might be a new unintended feature of dwarf fortress.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: FleshForge on October 18, 2010, 07:23:36 pm
That's pretty neat - I realize that's an accident of how that particular civ rolled up, but it would be a nifty expansion if your civs were possible to be friendly by design.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: darkflagrance on October 18, 2010, 07:54:48 pm
That's pretty neat - I realize that's an accident of how that particular civ rolled up, but it would be a nifty expansion if your civs were possible to be friendly by design.

You can actually mod them to be friendly even after you've started a fortress, if I recall correctly. Just give the desired races the [CAN_SPEAK] tag.

Edit: Tigers are active in all seasons, so if they are friendly, they will visit you four times a year. Hopefully this isn't too broken...

Edit2: Ah, looks like problem has been solved. Yeah, your memory of the default raw situation is correct. The tag is present but without the []s, which renders it dormant. You must have re-enabled it.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: celem on October 18, 2010, 07:58:29 pm
the stranglers showed up and got annihilated, so they at least are being hostile.

Tiger traders showed twice this year though (spring then late autumn)

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3296 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3296) is the save, theyre at the depot

edit: having read above i went and checked the fd entities...sure enough, tigermen [CAN_SPEAK].
Question now is whether thats all your raws or something i did......its possible you had left the tag in but without the []'s, i seem to recall seeing that when i first perused them...guess i went and made it a proper tag, was fairly drunk that night
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: FleshForge on October 18, 2010, 10:11:55 pm
The new way the different civs are split up into separate files is just fine, one couldn't ask for it to be any simpler.  Going to roll a new map with these and try this idea I had for military training.  Thanks!

edit: I'm sure it's just my amazingly shitty luck, but I just got two sieges simultaneously at the very beginning of year 2 (Tigermen and stranglers) and got smushed.   :'(
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: FleshForge on October 20, 2010, 02:44:04 pm
Quite surprisingly, I just had some blendecs and goblins siege me at the same time and apparently they are hostile to each other as well.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: celem on October 21, 2010, 10:20:11 am
Just for completeness.

I removed the can_speak from my tigermen again to try and revert them to hostile status.
They sent 1 more caravan which i guess was somehow considered to already be 'on its way'
It was followed by a tigerman seige about 2 months later and i havent seen them since so seems to be reset.

In other news things are hotting up in my first FD fort.  butchered another couple of strangler waves, two frogman waves, a tigerman seige and a pack of furies.  Celebrated this with another wave of migrants so im sure something more formiddable is en-route
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: darkflagrance on October 21, 2010, 02:02:21 pm
Quite surprisingly, I just had some blendecs and goblins siege me at the same time and apparently they are hostile to each other as well.

They should be hostile, because they can't speak to each other...and this way it's more fun. In theory though, humans and elves that siege your fort simultaneously would not therefore fight each other because they both have [CAN_SPEAK], unless the game put them at war with each other in world gen.

Just for completeness.

I removed the can_speak from my tigermen again to try and revert them to hostile status.
They sent 1 more caravan which i guess was somehow considered to already be 'on its way'
It was followed by a tigerman seige about 2 months later and i havent seen them since so seems to be reset.

In other news things are hotting up in my first FD fort.  butchered another couple of strangler waves, two frogman waves, a tigerman seige and a pack of furies.  Celebrated this with another wave of migrants so im sure something more formiddable is en-route

That's good; I had hoped that the early waves would be relatively easy to beat. The curve is about to jump quite a bit though soon...
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: Ilikor on October 23, 2010, 03:18:53 pm
My first siege were frogman and tiger, no problem I thought. Until I cheked their equipment, a squad of frogman had steel shortsword, another had steel helm and the last one had steel mace. The tigermen had some steel weaponry too. I thought they were supposed to be equipped with shitty weapon and armor ? I use the challenge version.

Was FUN none the less since my 17 militia in full bronze got insta-gibbed by the 60 hostiles XD
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: darkflagrance on October 23, 2010, 09:39:35 pm
My first siege were frogman and tiger, no problem I thought. Until I cheked their equipment, a squad of frogman had steel shortsword, another had steel helm and the last one had steel mace. The tigermen had some steel weaponry too. I thought they were supposed to be equipped with shitty weapon and armor ? I use the challenge version.

Was FUN none the less since my 17 militia in full bronze got insta-gibbed by the 60 hostiles XD

If you look again at the Frogman entry, it says that they use wooden weapons in Basic, but metal weapons in challenge.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: schussel on October 24, 2010, 03:40:32 am
nice man but wow .. those warwolves are tough as rock .. got em trapped in my  entrance area with marksmen shooting from above and the fight goes for like 6 months now with 2 casualties  so far from 12 wolves ... those elephants are cowards and  hellfire imps are a real nightmare so far .. never managed to defeat them ambushing my people head on even with a samesize steelclad melee squad + bow support ^^

Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: Cheese on October 24, 2010, 11:44:07 am
Have you thought about adding a race consisting of Megabeasts and titans? Sieges include say 30 randomly genned titans and 20 various megabeasts. It would make for legendary battles :P
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: darkflagrance on October 24, 2010, 04:21:11 pm
Can't add titans/forgotten beasts because we don't have raws access to them yet to put in civs.

However, I have been considering the implementation of a draconic/hydraic civ...
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: ioi101 on October 27, 2010, 10:07:19 am
I've been greatly enjoying the mod (basic, not challenge) over the base game so I thought I'd give some feedback.

When I embarked I think I counted 9 new hostile civlizations, not including goblins, elves, and humans. I think the hellfire imps were missing. The world was created over 600 years, and only one dwarf civ was available at embark (one that hadn't figured out high boots as it turned out).

I'm in the summer of my third year, 66 dwarves. I haven't used danger rooms or traps, beyond one line of outside cage traps meant to catch wildlife (i.e. elephants) relatively far away from my fortress, and a set of cagetraps in at the entrance which haven't been used yet. My main military force is 3 axedwarves, all in steel, who have ended up repelling  all invasions up to now. I also have 4 marksdwarves who still use wooden bolts and are mostly there for the experience, and 7 hammerdwarves strictly training for now.

Until this summer there was no real threat - I'd get goblin ambushes, frogmen, dark stranglers, furies (who are completely unarmed and unarmored - I think this is a bug).

This summer however I got one squad of blendecs - took a bit longer to slaughter but still no threat, and a squad of nagas - the bowmen were a threat, the swordsmen were not although again significantly tougher then previous enemies (I ended up having to restart the game a couple of times so I got to see both bow and sword nagas). And also 2 (or maybe 3) goblin ambushes - not a problem except for a lasher that injured one of my axedwarves. Along with probably 2x squads of fury "bowmen" (again no armor/weapons), 3x squads of frogmen and another 3x dark stranglers who pretty much all ran when I got into contact with one of their squads and slaughtered them. All these enemies came together probably within a month of each other, and they were all driven off/killed.

Along with them however, I got the real problem which was a squad of nightwing swordsmen (about 10 probably) using steel/iron weapons and armor. I think the main problem here is actually that my axedwarves can't put on their gloves properly so any long fight eventually ends with them being hand-less. Which wasn't a problem before since the enemies get slaughtered quickly but the nightwings do not die easily, at all. My marksdwarves with copper bolts also can't seem to do much damage to them. They hit, they "chip the bone" but they don't bring them down, even if they are all firing on just one enemy.

The good thing is that the nightwings are apparently not interested in attacking me. They sit a fair distance away from my fortress, and wait. I've tried a couple things - drawing them out in small groups with the marksdwarves - doesn't work too well since the marksdwarves have really bad defensive skills, so I need to intercept them with my 2 healthy axedwarves, who usually draw out 6-7 nightwings, and kill 2-3 of them before loosing their hands. I also tried to use my 7 unarmored but well armed and decently skilled hammerdwarves, to charge in after the axedwarves but they got slaughtered. I think I'll try to somehow get around the gauntlet bug and give it another shot at some point.

So some questions/issues I've had:

1) No elves came, ever. And I'm pretty sure they were there on embark. The humans came the second year, but it's now autumn of third and they didn't show up this summer. I don't know why - we traded fine before and there have been no casualties for traders.

2) I've had no ambushes from all the new races, only sieges. The goblins are the only ones who ambush. Don't know if that's intended

3) As mentioned furies are unarmed/unarmored

4) Dark stranglers are butcherable. Is this intended?

5) This is probably something that you cannot change easily (or at all), but probably my biggest gripe with the combat system in this game is how much armor/weapon material matters. I had 3 steel armored/armed dwarves before the first invasion hit and nothing that isn't steel armed/armored is a threat to me, at all, even though those dwarves started with terrible skills (and they are even now barely close to legendary in their weapon and with mediocre defense skills).

I'd much rather the combat was somewhat more dominated by skills, and perhaps weapon/armor quality (masterwork vs normal), rather then material. I know that's not "realistic" but really I don't give a damn about realism personally, compared to gameplay.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: darkflagrance on October 27, 2010, 01:30:58 pm
Thanks for your feedback. I'm happy you enjoyed the mod! I'll definitely consider it when I put together the next version of this mod.

1) It is probable that no elves came because of the constant sieges. In a spring with a siege, you will likely see no elves. Since constant sieges are an intended feature of this mod, I can't conceivably change this without also editing entity_default.

2) I've found that ambushes murder fps, especially when every civ is sending them and they all build up. Flight and ambushing are also extremely buggy when combined. I might nonetheless make more civs ambushers in the future.

3) I will look at this.

4) If I could, I would make all races butcherable.

As for difficulty, Dark Stranglers are intended to be wussies. In general, I planned for the early civs to be quite easy, but for the later civs to be quite destructive up until the sheer brokenness of the ones in the Challenge version. The mod is also balanced with a very short world  gen in mind; it's unfortunate that the hardest civs (wolves, elephants, and imps) don't seem to have appeared in your world - early world gens help preventing them from dying out.

5) I would need to institute a materials mod to do that. Actually, I've been thinking of creating a more comprehensive "military mod" that rebalances enemies, materials, weapons/armor, and other things for a more comprehensive overhaul of the military experience. However, what I like about the Fortress Defense Mod is that it can be easily exported to any version of DF that uses the vanilla files.

In changing this for the Fortress Defense Mod, I am limited not only by the stiff hierarchy of materials but also by the inability for enemy troops to come with more than a very limited fighting ability (with the exception of leaders). The new version of Dwarf Fortress is also more procedural with regards to the animals that come with a civ and the types of materials they use, making those harder to manipulate through just the entity file.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: FleshForge on October 27, 2010, 02:11:23 pm
Yeah stealthed units in general seem to make your FPS go to the shitter.  I don't really know why that should be but it seems pretty obvious, even kobold thieves running around picking up trash loot outside your perimeter really hurt FPS.

Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: kilakan on October 27, 2010, 06:32:13 pm
I think it has to do with the computer continually rolling to see if they are spotted.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: darkflagrance on October 27, 2010, 06:55:50 pm
I think it has to do with the computer continually rolling to see if they are spotted.

And the worst part about it is that you know when ambushers are there because your fps goes into the crapper, but you can't deal with the problem quickly because they are hidden and you must search for them first, and searching for them is slow because your fps sucks.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: FleshForge on October 27, 2010, 08:07:10 pm
You're probably right, but if so that really needs some design attention - typically I build my forts so that my dwarves are pretty much always out of line of sight to wherever ambushers could be, yet I still get that large FPS hit.  I guess since dwarves are constantly moving around Toady has every dwarf constantly checking, thinking about the problem makes me suspect it's probably a very hard one, much harder than most pathfinding applications.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: darkflagrance on October 28, 2010, 02:29:36 am
Uploaded new versions with the Fury bug fixed.

You can try to save the new raws over the old raws to fix the bug. I had a similar bug with Tigermen while testing, and I suspect that I fixed it in the current game I was playing.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: FleshForge on October 29, 2010, 06:26:09 am
A tiny bug, war elephant corpses don't appear to weigh very much/anything, unlike regular elephant corpses.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: ioi101 on October 29, 2010, 10:21:51 am
Hmm, that's interesting about the caravans. I'm not sure I understand however - do caravans get scared of alot of sieges even if you dispatch them quickly? Or is it that a caravan decides whether to come or not at a specific semi-random time, and if you happen to have a siege at the time they don't come? Or, do they only not come if you have a siege for almost the whole season?

I don't think I had many sieges in the spring, certainly not long ones - maybe the elves are just dead and I didn't notice. For the summer and the humans it makes sense though, since I did have a siege throughout the last month (or two) of summer, and they came the year before.

Is there a fairly easy way to make more caravans arrive, or perhaps to make the ones that show up carry alot more stuff? I actually like the trading side of the game as well, and I've ended up with far too much crap that I want to trade away in this game.

For ambush - I wasn't exactly asking for ambushes heh. I'm not much of a fan of them anyways, although it wouldn't hurt to make 1-2 races capable of ambushing I guess.

By the way, I finally killed off the nightwing squad, once my 3rd axedwarf got his broken arm fixed. Am I correct to think that they can not bleed to death? It seemed like the only way to kill them is to remove their head or upper/lower body. I've had them survive a very long time being knocked out with almost all of their legs/arms/paws chopped off until my axedwarf finally got a solid hit on the central parts which are protected by good armor. It's particularly annoying when two axedwarves decide to take days trying to finish off one disabled nightwing while the third guy is battling the whole squad by himself a few tiles away ;).
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: darkflagrance on October 29, 2010, 10:57:26 pm
Or is it that a caravan decides whether to come or not at a specific semi-random time, and if you happen to have a siege at the time they don't come?

It's something like this. In 40d, I know there was a window within which sieges/caravans could come at a certain time each season, and if a siege lasted for that entire time, nothing else, neither sieges nor caravans, would come. Though the window has shifted in 31 to the middle of a season, I think a similar mechanic still applies.

Is there a fairly easy way to make more caravans arrive, or perhaps to make the ones that show up carry alot more stuff? I actually like the trading side of the game as well, and I've ended up with far too much crap that I want to trade away in this game.

You can increase the carrying capacity of animals in creature_domestic that pull caravans.

For ambush - I wasn't exactly asking for ambushes heh. I'm not much of a fan of them anyways, although it wouldn't hurt to make 1-2 races capable of ambushing I guess.

I think hellfire imps might already ambush. But your world doesn't appear to have them, so...

By the way, I finally killed off the nightwing squad, once my 3rd axedwarf got his broken arm fixed. Am I correct to think that they can not bleed to death? It seemed like the only way to kill them is to remove their head or upper/lower body. I've had them survive a very long time being knocked out with almost all of their legs/arms/paws chopped off until my axedwarf finally got a solid hit on the central parts which are protected by good armor. It's particularly annoying when two axedwarves decide to take days trying to finish off one disabled nightwing while the third guy is battling the whole squad by himself a few tiles away ;).

They don't feel pain, can't suffocate, and never get tired, but I don't see a tag that prevents them from bleeding. In any case, they are meant to be difficult. That is why you have more than three axedwarves.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: FleshForge on October 30, 2010, 06:00:22 am
Yes hellfire imps ambush.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: schussel on October 30, 2010, 08:43:27 am
hellfire imps are the only ones i took out of the package .. they are strange .. those fireattacks are devastating if they are in a group .. and they cant be drowned... being fire i suppose it should extinguish em being fire beings (bug?)

but their tendency to constantly pop up and burn the world ..literally is quite nice but extremely anoying had mapwide bushfires 2 years in a row hammering my fps
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: apatters on October 31, 2010, 12:30:47 am
Has anyone else experienced DF crashes while running this mod? I don't know if they're related to the mod (I don't know why) but after installing the mod, I've gotten two fortresses up to ~50 pop and while playing both the game started randomly crashing. One was under 0.31.12 and the other under 0.31.16, in both cases I was using the Lazy Newb pack plus FD.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: kilakan on October 31, 2010, 11:35:02 am
I think frogmen are bugged, I'm currently at war with them and so far at 40 pop not one seige.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: darkflagrance on October 31, 2010, 06:18:15 pm
I think frogmen are bugged, I'm currently at war with them and so far at 40 pop not one seige.

Are any other civs attacking?

Has anyone else experienced DF crashes while running this mod? I don't know if they're related to the mod (I don't know why) but after installing the mod, I've gotten two fortresses up to ~50 pop and while playing both the game started randomly crashing. One was under 0.31.12 and the other under 0.31.16, in both cases I was using the Lazy Newb pack plus FD.

I'll figure this out when I don't have a ton of midterms breathing down my neck.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: kilakan on October 31, 2010, 07:06:16 pm
Huh so far only the vanilla races have shown for me, I'm being attacked by kobolds, humans and goblins, and the civ screen shows a few of the defense mod civs but none have attacked.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: darkflagrance on October 31, 2010, 07:43:42 pm
Huh so far only the vanilla races have shown for me, I'm being attacked by kobolds, humans and goblins, and the civ screen shows a few of the defense mod civs but none have attacked.

Can you post which version(Basic or Challenge) you are using and whether you are using individual civ files or the entire entity_fortressdefense file?

Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: kilakan on October 31, 2010, 07:55:04 pm
challenge and all of them, may just be they got all killed off though, the human civ is freaking huge in this world.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: schussel on November 01, 2010, 06:59:24 pm
funny thing i witnessed with the tigerpeople .. if you catch em in cagetraps  they breed like mad...

those cubs can be tamed .. .. if you release them they disturb everything but if you just tame em and then serve em in colosseumfights together with other tigerpeople they attack even their own mother above the dwarfes :)

(i atm do regular brawls of my 5 men wrestlersquad (in steel armor) vs 8-15 caught enemies ... in the last brawl it was suddenly 9 vs 10 because the cubs wrestled  any frogmen and tigerpeople .. after the service they were smashed to pulp as well (one dwarf even managed to splatter one cub into the wall)

any idea how to circumvent this behavior or is it rather intended? :)

PS: same seems to happen with any elephant calves/bear cubs from the mounts
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: darkflagrance on November 01, 2010, 09:02:22 pm
funny thing i witnessed with the tigerpeople .. if you catch em in cagetraps  they breed like mad...

those cubs can be tamed .. .. if you release them they disturb everything but if you just tame em and then serve em in colosseumfights together with other tigerpeople they attack even their own mother above the dwarfes :)

(i atm do regular brawls of my 5 men wrestlersquad (in steel armor) vs 8-15 caught enemies ... in the last brawl it was suddenly 9 vs 10 because the cubs wrestled  any frogmen and tigerpeople .. after the service they were smashed to pulp as well (one dwarf even managed to splatter one cub into the wall)

any idea how to circumvent this behavior or is it rather intended? :)

PS: same seems to happen with any elephant calves/bear cubs from the mounts

Isn't this fun  ;) I don't see why being able to do what you want with prisoners, including breed them, shouldn't be an intended feature of the game  :D

Other than that, the game doesn't really offer a way to really change the behavior of captured invaders.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: Alogism on November 01, 2010, 09:04:16 pm
For some reason after 3 years the mod stopped working totally. It seems to be stuck in Siege mode, Yet nothing is alive except one locked away Forgotten beast and a wandering slug-man or two. No new sieges will come, No ambushes, No migrants and no Caravans
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: kilakan on November 01, 2010, 09:18:13 pm
Well I'e officially killed 3 titans..... and 25 kobolds and 30 goblins but not one defense mod creature, and I engraved a ton of stuff and they are showing up a heck of alot in world gen history, just not in game....
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: FleshForge on November 01, 2010, 10:15:04 pm
It's a good idea to increase number of civilizations when genning the world, and to stop history pretty early.  I went with 80 civs on a medium map and stop my history at 50 or 75, usually every civ is alive.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: darkflagrance on November 01, 2010, 11:04:07 pm
For some reason after 3 years the mod stopped working totally. It seems to be stuck in Siege mode, Yet nothing is alive except one locked away Forgotten beast and a wandering slug-man or two. No new sieges will come, No ambushes, No migrants and no Caravans

This bug is in vanilla too. Sometimes an invader will become bugged and the game will track it as an invisible unit near the edge of the map, which prevents the current siege from lifting. The only fix I know of is to use DF Hack to find and kill the invader.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: Ilikor on November 07, 2010, 11:35:03 am
I had a lot of frogman siege, so they aren't bugged.

 But, is it normal than minotaurus send thieves ?
 and that giant fiend spider sends ambushes ?

Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: kilakan on November 07, 2010, 11:43:14 am
huh finally got my first siege... and my second, third and fourth all at the same time.  Bloody 12 goblins, 15 tigermen, 20 frogmen and 25ish stranglers, killed 3 of my dwarves, course one drowned.  But I got 3 people with titles (two of which died to the goblins)  I think my artifact star ruby floodgate, with steel encircles and gold engravings, along with sapphire spikes caused the sieges.....
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: kilakan on November 07, 2010, 03:24:06 pm
huh so I noticed dark stranglers are edible and butcher-able.... I have 800 meat now after a siege, and no causalities, they've become more of a annual food drop as opposed to a problem.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: darkflagrance on November 07, 2010, 11:50:13 pm
That's deliciously intended behavior; if you're besieged by wild animals, why not eat them? The difficulty of other sieges and the cutting off of caravans should help make up for the "windfalls".
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: kilakan on November 08, 2010, 04:51:23 pm
haha I have so much meat now, turns our war animals are also edible, and my tigermen bring a TON of war jaguars and war leopards.  So ya, I'm being attacked by the furry army of death, which I then eat the casualties of.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: Srial on November 12, 2010, 10:51:19 am
I have to say how incredibly fun this mod is.  I've always felt sieges were incredibly wimpy and boring in DF.  By year three I was getting multiple sieges a season and I was SCARED to open the front gate to test out my defenses.  It was awesome!  My current fort is dying an fps death because I just can't keep up with cleaning up all the bodies and loot because I lost most of my hauling dwarves in the unfortunate 'forgetting to reattach the lever to the main drawbridge' incident of 253.  My bad....

I'm already planning the new fort though and this mod is going to stay part of my standard df experience for as long as it'll keep loading up.

Thanks so much for this, it really makes df for me now!
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: darkflagrance on November 16, 2010, 10:19:05 am
Apparently version 31.18 allows better specification of the metals that an enemy civ uses.

Download (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves) (Click refresh on your browser if it doesn't show up)

   (*)changed metal use for humans/gobs/kobs via existing raw tags
   (*)changed a few two-handed weapon sizes

This calls for some changes to the civs of the Fortress Defense Mod.

I don't know when on my current busy schedule I'll have time to get around to it, but rest certain that these changes will be in the next version...

edit:

I have to say how incredibly fun this mod is.  I've always felt sieges were incredibly wimpy and boring in DF.  By year three I was getting multiple sieges a season and I was SCARED to open the front gate to test out my defenses.  It was awesome!  My current fort is dying an fps death because I just can't keep up with cleaning up all the bodies and loot because I lost most of my hauling dwarves in the unfortunate 'forgetting to reattach the lever to the main drawbridge' incident of 253.  My bad....

I'm already planning the new fort though and this mod is going to stay part of my standard df experience for as long as it'll keep loading up.

Thanks so much for this, it really makes df for me now!

Considering that fps lag due to liquid spillage is a bug of the way DF is currently implemented, I would recommend the use of DFCleanMap (or whatever it's called) to (very marginally) take care of those things. Although making bodies and loot evaporate might be an interesting feature to think about in the future.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: ioi101 on November 16, 2010, 03:28:24 pm
"Although making bodies and loot evaporate might be an interesting feature to think about in the future."

Truer words were rarely spoken. I think I'm now at year 4 of my fortress and the area around the entrance of my fort looks like the scene of a massacre. I've been using a dwarf-cleaner (line of water) at the front of my entrance, and running dfcleanmap multiple times per siege but it doesn't seem to help much. If there was simply a way to make bodies/bones rot quicker I think that would do the trick. It would certainly make things look neater. In any case, it's time to reset.

Also some more general comments about the mod - I've now seen multiple waves of war elephants, nightwings and warwolves, and as far as I can tell, nightwings are the worst, followed closely by the war elephants, while the warwolves are significantly weaker. The difference between nightwings and elephants is that nightwings are very hard to disable since they don't ever seem to fall unconscious even when heavily wounded, while elephants hurt alot although they are easier to bring down. At least that's what usually happens, one time I had 83 pages of combat text that was 2 axemen trying to finish off an unconscious elephant (in bronze armor IIRC). And let's not talk about the time when nightwing lashers showed up.

Probably the worst squad I faced were a bunch of nightwing axemen who served as a meatshield for their general which was a legendary +5 in spear skill with a copper spear who cut through steel like it wasn't there - I used runesmith to figure out his stats. I ran through the battle times many times by reloading and basically the general would pick off the dwarves one by one while the rest of his squad was dying slowly. I ended up reducing his stats in runesmith to proceed.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: SalmonGod on November 16, 2010, 05:17:08 pm
Doesn't Genesis allow melting down/disposal of remains in a kiln or something like that?  Maybe that functionality could be borrowed? 

Can bones be used for construction? :D
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: Srial on November 18, 2010, 01:00:29 pm
I'll go looking for DfCleanmap, thanks.  Sounds like it might be what I need.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: darkflagrance on November 18, 2010, 03:09:00 pm
Doesn't Genesis allow melting down/disposal of remains in a kiln or something like that?  Maybe that functionality could be borrowed? 

Can bones be used for construction? :D

I've been considering creating a new set of invader races, related to the current ones, who possess no bones or other materials that would be left upon death. A kiln reaction would also be easy enough to implement; it's just a matter of finding the time with finals around the corner.

"Although making bodies and loot evaporate might be an interesting feature to think about in the future."

Truer words were rarely spoken. I think I'm now at year 4 of my fortress and the area around the entrance of my fort looks like the scene of a massacre. I've been using a dwarf-cleaner (line of water) at the front of my entrance, and running dfcleanmap multiple times per siege but it doesn't seem to help much. If there was simply a way to make bodies/bones rot quicker I think that would do the trick. It would certainly make things look neater. In any case, it's time to reset.

Also some more general comments about the mod - I've now seen multiple waves of war elephants, nightwings and warwolves, and as far as I can tell, nightwings are the worst, followed closely by the war elephants, while the warwolves are significantly weaker. The difference between nightwings and elephants is that nightwings are very hard to disable since they don't ever seem to fall unconscious even when heavily wounded, while elephants hurt alot although they are easier to bring down. At least that's what usually happens, one time I had 83 pages of combat text that was 2 axemen trying to finish off an unconscious elephant (in bronze armor IIRC). And let's not talk about the time when nightwing lashers showed up.

Probably the worst squad I faced were a bunch of nightwing axemen who served as a meatshield for their general which was a legendary +5 in spear skill with a copper spear who cut through steel like it wasn't there - I used runesmith to figure out his stats. I ran through the battle times many times by reloading and basically the general would pick off the dwarves one by one while the rest of his squad was dying slowly. I ended up reducing his stats in runesmith to proceed.

You might consider changing one of the game's default reactions to consume corpses or melt armor and see if that helps.

Regarding relative army difficulty, I did intend for elephants and nightwings to be the hardest challenges in the basic version. When I tried to determine how to balance the game, I decided I would prefer to err on the side of extremely challenging for the highest tier enemies, compared to Relentless Assault where it became trivial to survive even the final tier of enemies with a few legendaries.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: ioi101 on November 18, 2010, 05:59:30 pm
Yeah I think they are properly difficult, especially now that in the new version armor should protect toes and such (this is what most of the wounds on my dwarves were from the previous versions). It wasn't easy but I did manage to deal with everything without resorting to cheating/traps or loosing dwarves (except one guy that succumbed to infection after a bunch of injuries). Except for that one spearmaster nightwing. And of course I had to reload quite a bit, usually because my marksdwarves got into melee combat and promptly got slaughtered or because my soldiers got separated in a bad way. If the health-care industry fixed up wounded dwarves more easily I might even say it should be a bit harder.

I think probably the biggest difference next time I play will be to try to set up archer towers/fortifications. With the amount of enemies that are coming from all sides it's hard to keep marksdwarves safe without them, and I didn't want to wait for the enemies in my tunnel where I had a shooting gallery set up. That or just use melee dwarves only. I'll have to try the challenge version whenever I start a new game.
Title: Re: [0.31.12/16] Fortress Defense Mod II: Higher Customizability!
Post by: kilakan on November 19, 2010, 04:47:25 pm
I find a few heavily armored swords dwarves, about 15, with a backup of 5 marksdwarves can both keep the archers safe, and still slaughter everything, but ya archer towers are a must on this mod.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: darkflagrance on November 23, 2010, 08:24:09 am
New release! See link in OP.

Testing out having enemies drop a stone that evaporates when temperature is turned on. This should also prevent their remains from leaving bones.

Also figured out how to restrict civs to certain metals.

Both of these implementations require additional files than just the creature and entity files.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: fledermaus on November 23, 2010, 07:09:38 pm
Great! Glad to see a new version; I've really been wanting to try this out! Thanks!
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: sjaakwortel on December 10, 2010, 01:14:03 pm
anyway to turn the evaporate effect off ? i like using the stuff of fallen enemies.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: darkflagrance on December 10, 2010, 06:04:44 pm
anyway to turn the evaporate effect off ? i like using the stuff of fallen enemies.

Only the corpses of fiend-type enemies (nightwings, imps, etc) evaporate; this is in keeping with flavor, in my opinion, and other mundane enemies still drop their items.

The tags that cause this are arranged on two lines in the creature entries of enemies that evaporate, like so:

Code: [Select]
[NOSKULL][NOSKIN][NOBONES][NOMEAT]
[ITEMCORPSE:STONE:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:VAPORSTONE_FD]

Deleting them will cause the creature to leave a normal corpse again.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: Blurk on December 14, 2010, 09:33:19 am
ive got alot of dead bodies in from of my gates, my dwarfs refuse to dump them or get them out of the way, this is normal?

anyway, i will solve it with magma unless someone has a better idea.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: schussel on December 14, 2010, 06:47:16 pm
ive got alot of dead bodies in from of my gates, my dwarfs refuse to dump them or get them out of the way, this is normal?

anyway, i will solve it with magma unless someone has a better idea.
check outside refuse removal orders ... o-r-o  + availability of refuse pile
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: SammyLiimex on December 15, 2010, 06:19:40 am
Im crashing alot, this is the only mod I have. Is anyone else crashing or is it just this release?
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: darkflagrance on December 15, 2010, 07:21:20 am
I don't think this mod causes unusual crashes. Maybe you're triggering one of the crash bugs listed on the bug tracker?

Edit: What the the circumstances during which your game crashes?
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: SammyLiimex on December 15, 2010, 07:22:34 am
I don't think this mod causes unusual crashes. Maybe you're triggering one of the crash bugs listed on the bug tracker?

I honestly dont know what causes it, just pops up and says "Dwarf Fortress has stopped working", ill go check the tracker real fast.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: Shadowstar009 on December 16, 2010, 11:14:12 pm
Love this mod!  Sieges actually feel like a real threat now rather than just some live targets for my military to go beat up.  The only problem I've been having so far though is that the flying races (furies and nightwings) can't seem to figure out how to get to my gate.  So instead, they stay near the edges of the map just hanging around and occasionally attacking goblins or caravans that enter the map near them.  My fort is on the side of a pretty steep hill with a lake on one side, so I'm wondering if it's some sort of weird pathing problem.  Can they normally find their way around on flatter maps?

Also, I can confirm that Nightwings don't bleed and are extremely hard to kill as a result.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: Mickey Blue on December 20, 2010, 06:59:28 am
Great Mod, first time through ended up having Tigermen and War Elephants team up to take my fort down, second time I got luckier, didn't fight many strong enemies until I could get my defenses going, ended up abandoning cause while my fort was holding up ok I didn't think it would be able to take on the stronger enemies.

Gonna have to plan out a good defensive structure.

Question; if you modify the game so that sieges come earlier, will that affect this mod as well? Just curious, I'd like to see how few dwarves I can limit myself to and still survive but if you have to have fifty to eighty to get any serious monsters it may not work out.

-MB
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: darkflagrance on December 20, 2010, 01:03:21 pm
Great Mod, first time through ended up having Tigermen and War Elephants team up to take my fort down, second time I got luckier, didn't fight many strong enemies until I could get my defenses going, ended up abandoning cause while my fort was holding up ok I didn't think it would be able to take on the stronger enemies.

Gonna have to plan out a good defensive structure.

Question; if you modify the game so that sieges come earlier, will that affect this mod as well? Just curious, I'd like to see how few dwarves I can limit myself to and still survive but if you have to have fifty to eighty to get any serious monsters it may not work out.

-MB

You can only mod civs to come earlier by changing each individual civ's entry. Here's how, if you don't mind a little raws editing:

In the Fortress Defense entity file in the raws, which lists all of the civs in Fortress Defense, where under each civ's entry it says PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POPULATION:(a number), change (a number) to 2 to ensure that enemies start coming at 50 dwarves. The minimum population before enemy civs attack you is 20 dwarves, which corresponds to PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POPULATION:1

Love this mod!  Sieges actually feel like a real threat now rather than just some live targets for my military to go beat up.  The only problem I've been having so far though is that the flying races (furies and nightwings) can't seem to figure out how to get to my gate.  So instead, they stay near the edges of the map just hanging around and occasionally attacking goblins or caravans that enter the map near them.  My fort is on the side of a pretty steep hill with a lake on one side, so I'm wondering if it's some sort of weird pathing problem.  Can they normally find their way around on flatter maps?

Also, I can confirm that Nightwings don't bleed and are extremely hard to kill as a result.

Nightwings are supposed to be a challenge; that is why they are among the last enemies to arrive in Basic. ;D

Flying enemies occasionally experience pathing issues that prevent them from pathing to your meeting areas because they cannot path through the air if they spawn in the air. This is the same reason why DF dragons don't fly either. I didn't consider the downside severe enough to disqualify the addition of flying enemies completely, but I made sure the flying civs only sieged, so that hidden stuck flying ambushes don't occur.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: ext0l on December 20, 2010, 01:30:57 pm
I just had 4 sieges come in sucession.
First there were 3 squads of Nagas.
Then there were some Frogmen
And then the Nightwings came.

After the nightwings were some stranglers  ::)

But I still havn't seen any elephants, werewolves, or imps  :(
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: Mickey Blue on December 20, 2010, 02:20:17 pm
Thanks for the info!

-MB
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: darkflagrance on December 21, 2010, 01:39:30 pm
I just had 4 sieges come in sucession.
First there were 3 squads of Nagas.
Then there were some Frogmen
And then the Nightwings came.

After the nightwings were some stranglers  ::)

But I still havn't seen any elephants, werewolves, or imps  :(

Unfortunately, I can't guarantee that the civs of Fortress Defense will attack in the order given in the OP (this has been hypothesized to depend on distance to your fort, population of enemy civs, and whether or not the civ has access to your fort in the first place), only that they will only attack when your fortress fulfills the necessary population and production criteria.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: kilakan on December 21, 2010, 08:05:13 pm
ya for instance I once got sieged by 5 squads of riding tiger-men on the second year, I embarked right beside their towns.  So it's definitely by distance.  Didn't have much population or wealth either.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: rephikul on December 24, 2010, 11:53:30 am
Frag, may I suggest moving all the creatures of size 50k-60k all to 70k so there's no invaders spawning with dwarf-sized armors?
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: darkflagrance on December 24, 2010, 01:02:07 pm
Frag, may I suggest moving all the creatures of size 50k-60k all to 70k so there's no invaders spawning with dwarf-sized armors?

May I inquire as to the reasoning as to why you believe such a change would be beneficial?

From what I can determine, the overall effect of implementing this change is overall increased difficulty, through the removing of certain strategies and the increased toughness and power of enemies.

On one hand, the obvious problem with enemies the same size as dwarves is that after killing them, dwarves can use the armor they just dropped. On the other hand, the mod is already difficult due to the volume of sieges; a player caught off guard might welcome the influx of usable armor, and the presence of usable armor creates an interesting strategy for the player: to somehow kill the initial sieges of creatures with dwarf-size armor without combat, and then use their (probably sub-par) armor to fight off later sieges. This change would eliminate this strategy for better or for worse, and at the same time make the sieges harder due to the slightly larger enemies.

In addition, dwarves can only wear armor for creatures whose main size is size 60k; smaller dwarves should not be able to wear the armor of smaller creatures as far as I can tell from my modding experience and reading on the forum, meaning that there should be no need to change the size of smaller creatures based on the concern I raise above.

If people do agree that this change would be better for the mod, I will implement it.

Edit: Since the changes you described were trivial, I made a version of the mod with the changes you described in about 5 minutes.

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3601 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3601)
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: rephikul on December 24, 2010, 01:32:27 pm
From what I can determine, the overall effect of implementing this change is overall increased difficulty, through the removing of certain strategies and the increased toughness and power of enemies.

Half way there.

The other half being: Due to reasons I'd explain below, this change will help me from having to include a bastardized version of your mod in mine and still continue to be able to support yours. Now, to the technicalities: Due to bug #3838 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=3838) creatures will not spawn with full armor as intended. Right now Jotuns only arrive with breastplate, shield, helm and a weapon. My axe men can easily chop off their feet/hands/whatever off and it's done, siege over. For me to walk around this bug, I have to make a clothing version of lowerbody/foot/hand armor pieces and let these creatures use them. That's fine and dandy. However, eventually civilians will claim "clothings" from the goblinites of the 3-4 FD races with dwarf-sized armors and that's not good cause "no civ clothings" is an another feature of mine. In order for me to walk around this issue I have 2 options: ask you to tweak your mod or include a bastard version of your mod and have to change it myself every time you update yours. I'm lazy so I opted for 1) ;p

So basically, 1 small fix from your side, 1 small fix from my side, IM+FD suddenly got a whole lot harder.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: darkflagrance on December 24, 2010, 02:32:16 pm
From what I can determine, the overall effect of implementing this change is overall increased difficulty, through the removing of certain strategies and the increased toughness and power of enemies.

Half way there.

The other half being: Due to reasons I'd explain below, this change will help me from having to include a bastardized version of your mod in mine and still continue to be able to support yours. Now, to the technicalities: Due to bug #3838 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=3838) creatures will not spawn with full armor as intended. Right now Jotuns only arrive with breastplate, shield, helm and a weapon. My axe men can easily chop off their feet/hands/whatever off and it's done, siege over. For me to walk around this bug, I have to make a clothing version of lowerbody/foot/hand armor pieces and let these creatures use them. That's fine and dandy. However, eventually civilians will claim "clothings" from the goblinites of the 3-4 FD races with dwarf-sized armors and that's not good cause "no civ clothings" is an another feature of mine. In order for me to walk around this issue I have 2 options: ask you to tweak your mod or include a bastard version of your mod and have to change it myself every time you update yours. I'm lazy so I opted for 1) ;p

So basically, 1 small fix from your side, 1 small fix from my side, IM+FD suddenly got a whole lot harder.

Updates to my mod are generally contingent upon new releases that change aspects of entity generation or the military. Thus, updates to my mod are infrequent. Since the changes you request require only a few edits in one file of the mod, and will be accompanied by further changes to armor in the entity files, it might be better to maintain a separate version of Fortress Defense that is compatible with IM.

Presumably, most future updates to FDII would not affect the changes to the file that I altered for the sake of greater compatibility with the IM.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: rephikul on December 24, 2010, 02:53:11 pm
Since the changes you request require only a few edits in one file of the mod, and will be accompanied by further changes to armor in the entity files, it might be better to maintain a separate version of Fortress Defense that is compatible with IM.
I'm not sure what you meant with that, but if you mean FD's entity files need to be changed then no. I made the default pieces "clothing" and add new pieces exclusively for dwarven entity. The armor change done on my side thus would also improve vanilla non-dwarf entities without having to change them directly.

With the size tweak, there's no more cheap gears from siege. Moreover, players now have a new decision to make: Either trade the goblinites away, losing much value but remain poor OR melt them, make better stuff but also get higher fort value as a result, which escalate sieges faster. Changing creature size is thus a solid choice laced with !!FUN!!, with or without IM relevance  :D
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on December 25, 2010, 08:34:21 pm
So, I'm gonna try this mod. I have a few questions :

1. Is it reccomended for relativly new players? (E.G managed to run a goblin free fortress for 4 years. I did not, mind you, turn off invasions. I didn't realize that I couldn't acces the goblins.)

2. Would an embark full of zombies/skeletons be a good siegebreaker? AKA will the undead attack sieges.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: kilakan on December 25, 2010, 08:54:12 pm
I've got a few problems, blendecs seem to never show, and fiend spiders are freaking easy to kill.  I actually had a dwarf kick one in the chest, collapsing both lungs and it's heart...... the dwarf was a untrained peasant hauler.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: Mickey Blue on December 25, 2010, 09:10:48 pm
So, I'm gonna try this mod. I have a few questions :

1. Is it reccomended for relativly new players? (E.G managed to run a goblin free fortress for 4 years. I did not, mind you, turn off invasions. I didn't realize that I couldn't acces the goblins.)

Depends what exactly you mean by new I guess but I find this mod to be great to help learn to survive a siege, you get them fast and frequent so you get to test different strategies on how to break them without risking the loss of an ancient fort, not to mention the higher difficulty..

Quote
2. Would an embark full of zombies/skeletons be a good siegebreaker? AKA will the undead attack sieges.

They'd probably attack them, I know I've had a few goblin sieges and/or ambushes show up at the same time as other enemies (as well as a few semi-megabeasts) and they all fought outside.  That said, unless its been changed, the undead in general are extremely weak these days (due to a work around from them being incredibly strong) so I doubt they'd put up a meaningful fight, plus (again unless somethings changed) oftentimes you don't have a huge amount of undead on evil maps, at least not at any given moment, undead animals are like normal ones, they come and go, and other undead creatures are even less frequent (in my experience at least, used to play evil biomes all the time, not so much these days).

So I guess in short, yes they'd probably attack but no it probably won't help in a meaningful way with you surviving the siege.

-MB
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on December 25, 2010, 09:37:55 pm
Alrighty. I embarked in a terrifying glacier. No zombies, evil creatures instead. As in yetis. Nothing has bothered me yet though. I need some help with routes though. I have never gotten them to work.

Spoiler: Route (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Military Schedule (click to show/hide)

Anything I'm doing wrong?

EDIT : Disregard all of this.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: mrtspence on December 27, 2010, 12:04:24 pm
Love this mod.

Been running it with some of my own modded-in races too. Extremely fun.

Thanks so much and fantastic work! I eagerly await future updates.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: dagger on December 30, 2010, 12:07:36 pm
Thanks for all the hard work on this, its a great mod. I have an odd request, do you have a DL for 31.16? I am using that along with .18 and want to try it with .16.

Thank you!!!

Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: darkflagrance on December 30, 2010, 01:51:24 pm
Thanks for all the hard work on this, its a great mod. I have an odd request, do you have a DL for 31.16? I am using that along with .18 and want to try it with .16.

Thank you!!!

This is a link to an older version of Fortress Defense II that was intended to be compatible with versions from .12 to .16. The .18 version might not be completely compatible because it gives some races innate skills.

http://www.mediafire.com/?u1k9avvddt8wovt (http://www.mediafire.com/?u1k9avvddt8wovt)
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: dagger on December 30, 2010, 02:45:31 pm
Thank you for the link
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: Kogut on January 09, 2011, 01:37:13 pm
Great thing! I finally have interesting game, reason to have military and there is bigger enemy[enemies] than bad designed menus.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: Blurk on January 10, 2011, 05:27:34 pm
would it be possible to give the some (if not all) creatures a language, lets say the standard in Human or Goblin.
if yes, how?
in legends there are always quite a few conflicts (and wars) because these civilizations cant seem to communicate.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: rephikul on January 10, 2011, 11:12:35 pm
the whole point of not giving creature language was to make sure they'd come and fight you.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: Blurk on January 11, 2011, 11:29:42 am
oh right forgot about that >.<
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: darkflagrance on January 11, 2011, 12:28:09 pm
They actually all already have languages within their civs; they just have no ability to communicate with each other.

To return the capability for diplomacy, merely add the [CAN_SPEAK] tag anywhere to each of the creature raws of all the races.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: Krelian on January 12, 2011, 07:11:25 pm
are these new civilizations hostile to each other?

they are actual civilizations, or just generated when a siege takes place? will I see them in legends mode?

only sieges or I should also expect ambushes?
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: darkflagrance on January 12, 2011, 08:13:39 pm
are these new civilizations hostile to each other?

Since they cannot communicate with each other, they should all be hostile to each other. I don't know how this will interact with Adventure Mode.

they are actual civilizations, or just generated when a siege takes place? will I see them in legends mode?

They are all actual civilizations. You can track their histories in Legends Mode. The Warlords who lead the attacks will be historical figures. You can see them in Adventure Mode.

only sieges or I should also expect ambushes?

Only one of the civilizations in Fortress Defense ambushes. I limited ambush capability because it tends to ruin fps.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: Psychobones on January 14, 2011, 11:20:00 pm
Having issues with a fairly odd bug. It seems that my military refuses to pick up their weapons after an unknown event. The equipment screen claims they have them, however they don't fight with them, and they don't have them in their inventory screen. Sometimes they'll even use a different weapon. I have a legendary speardwarf training with a warhammer, as well as a legendary axedwarf now trying to become a wrestler(and succeeding). In my vanilla version of DF this isn't an issue, it only occurs in my defense mod version. Related to defense mod or just a fluke?
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: rephikul on January 14, 2011, 11:34:31 pm
Just a fluke. FD doesnt change how dwarves use their equipments.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: Kogut on January 15, 2011, 05:06:21 am
But why dogs can have owners? I never noticed it in vanilia.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: rephikul on January 15, 2011, 05:14:36 am
Immigrants sometimes arrive with their own pet, usually cats or dogs.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: Sandrew on January 16, 2011, 05:41:00 am
Does this mod change combat mechanics as well? Because for the first time ever I'm starting to lose military dwarves. Which is good.

In any case, I love this mod. The amount of sieges makes building defensive positions a necessity. I got attacked by 48 stranglers on camels yesterday. Followed by some forty tigermen, riding war grizzly bears and alligators. Followed by another fifty or so stranglers on camels. And after that two goblin ambushes showed up. All in a single month. My mountain is already littered with corpses and my hallway has blood smeared on nearly every wall and floor tile. Exactly the way it should be.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: Kogut on January 16, 2011, 10:11:12 am
Probably enemies have higher combat statistics than goblins.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: darkflagrance on January 16, 2011, 10:30:11 pm
Does this mod change combat mechanics as well? Because for the first time ever I'm starting to lose military dwarves. Which is good.

In any case, I love this mod. The amount of sieges makes building defensive positions a necessity. I got attacked by 48 stranglers on camels yesterday. Followed by some forty tigermen, riding war grizzly bears and alligators. Followed by another fifty or so stranglers on camels. And after that two goblin ambushes showed up. All in a single month. My mountain is already littered with corpses and my hallway has blood smeared on nearly every wall and floor tile. Exactly the way it should be.

Yeah, the enemies are definitely tougher. Just wait till hellfire imps :P
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: kilakan on January 17, 2011, 03:18:15 pm
Goblin Spear-men riding cave crocodiles..... deadliest thing I've encountered.  I had two squads of them rip though my 50 man army, which had successfully defeated huge armies of stranglers, tigermen, and even a number of fiend spider ambushes.... yet I only killed one crocodile and 3 goblins... man did you do something to the crocodiles skin? 
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: schussel on January 17, 2011, 04:18:10 pm
Goblin Spear-men riding cave crocodiles..... deadliest thing I've encountered.  I had two squads of them rip though my 50 man army, which had successfully defeated huge armies of stranglers, tigermen, and even a number of fiend spider ambushes.... yet I only killed one crocodile and 3 goblins... man did you do something to the crocodiles skin?
well ... a moat 2-3 tiles wide filled with water makes that threat half :)
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: rephikul on January 17, 2011, 08:10:26 pm
I'm pretty sure FD doesnt touch crocs or goblins at all. On a side note, empty moat keep both goblins and crocs away.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: maxs on January 19, 2011, 12:14:58 am
This mod looks really fun, just a quick question: is it compatible with tilesets? (phoebus specifically).. sorry if this has been answered before, I only made a cursory glance through this massive thread.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: rephikul on January 19, 2011, 12:30:55 am
This mod looks really fun, just a quick question: is it compatible with tilesets? (phoebus specifically).. sorry if this has been answered before, I only made a cursory glance through this massive thread.
all the creatures are not represented with custom graphics and thus appear as plain characters such as 'O' 's' or 'T'
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: fervor on January 23, 2011, 03:36:35 pm
Is there a quick way to tell whether the mod is working or not?  Running basic.  Install is simple, so no way I messed that up.  Can I find out how many enemy civilizations there are?

I'm at 46 dwarves, year and half so far, and it's been boring.  One thief and that's it.  The civilization window doesn't list anything unusual (human, dwarf, elf, goblin, kobold).  Is it too soon?  The first post in this thread said to expect attacks at 20 dwarves?  Maybe that 1st civilization didn't spawn on my map or it's dead already?

I have 5 dwarves fully outfitted in iron (with additional cloth and leather layers) and ready for some action, along with a huge pack of war dogs.  Plenty more iron armor/weapons already made if I need some untrained fodder.  I have a lot of steel ready for forging once my armor/weapon smiths level up a bit in a season or two.

In the embark settings, I had 50 civilizations for a medium region map.  Is that enough?  If I set it at something crazy like 500 (or whatever is the max...100?), would I endure constant sieges?
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: fervor on January 23, 2011, 04:11:44 pm
Oh, hmm...  I did some searching and I answered some of my own questions.

The civilization window only lists the ones that have visited me already or something like that?  Also, I can see a list of the other civilizations during the embark setup process.  Tab to see a list of neighbors.

I just started another map as a test.  100 civilizations over 200 years.  Neighbors include 9 of the 10 civs from this mod.  Seems like that civ died already.  Moving around the map to pick an embark location changes the number of neighbors too.

Is there a way to find out how many enemy civilizations have access to my fortress in my current game?  I'd hate to keep playing for a few more years before discovering I embarked in a super safe location.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: rephikul on January 23, 2011, 04:14:06 pm
the list of civs you see on the embark screen is the ones which have access to your fort. Do note that some strong FD civs, such as jortun, can siege quite late.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: Kogut on January 23, 2011, 04:28:45 pm
copy save, abandon, locate your place (R?) on worldmap - and you can check full list of civs.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: fervor on January 23, 2011, 05:40:11 pm
copy save, abandon, locate your place (R?) on worldmap - and you can check full list of civs.

Oh, cool.  I didn't know there was a reclaim function that autofinds the location.  I thought I'd have to manually search, so I didn't even try.

5 of the 10 new civs are available on the map and my location.  Stranglers and Frogmen are there.  I guess I just need to be more patient, heh.

Always something new to learn when playing DF.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: rephikul on January 24, 2011, 12:32:31 am
copy save, abandon, locate your place (R?) on worldmap - and you can check full list of civs.

Oh, cool.  I didn't know there was a reclaim function that autofinds the location.  I thought I'd have to manually search, so I didn't even try.

5 of the 10 new civs are available on the map and my location.  Stranglers and Frogmen are there.  I guess I just need to be more patient, heh.

Always something new to learn when playing DF.
stranglers actually should come very early. usually in late 2nd year / early 3rd year
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: schussel on January 24, 2011, 07:09:59 pm
feel lucky .. unless there was a change i didnt make out, stranglers are a somewhat reliable and almost infinite source of food :>
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: rephikul on January 24, 2011, 11:53:08 pm
feel lucky .. unless there was a change i didnt make out, stranglers are a somewhat reliable and almost infinite source of food :>
Ya they make huge stacks of sinews and organ chops for my animals. I honestly think all of these guys should be made none butcherable.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: Kogut on January 25, 2011, 01:28:58 am
for animals?
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: rephikul on January 25, 2011, 01:33:37 am
for animals?
Animals dont siege.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on January 25, 2011, 05:53:38 pm
War elephants.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: rephikul on January 25, 2011, 11:45:35 pm
War elephants.
Looking like an elephant, but still not an animal. As I said, animals dont siege. If they are intelligent enough to siege, they deserve some respects.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: Kogut on January 27, 2011, 05:32:19 pm
Why it works this way:
2 years without sieges, then in one month
- E siege
- flying thing siege
- blendec siege
- naga siege (3 squads) and dark strangler siege (nagas killed dark stranglers)
- 3x goblin ambush (probably only detected by invader)
+ multiple S thing baby snatchers

By the way, is it possible to replace "vile force of..." with sth more creative?
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: rephikul on January 27, 2011, 06:06:55 pm
you probably have no strangler access, it's spring and you just got some migrants or you just made an artifact.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: mrtspence on January 27, 2011, 07:51:14 pm
Why it works this way:
2 years without sieges, then in one month
- E siege
- flying thing siege
- blendec siege
- naga siege (3 squads) and dark strangler siege (nagas killed dark stranglers)
- 3x goblin ambush (probably only detected by invader)
+ multiple S thing baby snatchers

By the way, is it possible to replace "vile force of..." with sth more creative?

Not sure. It seems like it is hardcoded to specific races (gobbos>>>vile force of darkness, humans>>>the enemy have come, elves>>>curse all friends of nature), in which case it cannot be changed easily.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: darkflagrance on January 28, 2011, 08:48:55 pm
Why it works this way:
2 years without sieges, then in one month
- E siege
- flying thing siege
- blendec siege
- naga siege (3 squads) and dark strangler siege (nagas killed dark stranglers)
- 3x goblin ambush (probably only detected by invader)
+ multiple S thing baby snatchers

By the way, is it possible to replace "vile force of..." with sth more creative?

Not sure. It seems like it is hardcoded to specific races (gobbos>>>vile force of darkness, humans>>>the enemy have come, elves>>>curse all friends of nature), in which case it cannot be changed easily.

Yeah, I haven't seen any tags that correspond to the different messages, to my knowledge.

(although, theoretically things like babysnatcher, tree_diplomacy, and other similar tags might be causing this relationship, so it might be manipulable. But still, the messages themselves are hardcoded.)
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: fervor on February 03, 2011, 03:31:25 am
Yup.  After 2 years, all hell breaks loose.  You better be prepared or you're screwed.

Sometimes the armies attack each other.  Sometimes, they don't.  I haven't played enough (3 games so far with this mod) to tell.  They always attack goblins, though.  I haven't had to kill a single goblin yet since installing this mod (err..thieves, maybe).

I have a big pit trap where I usually end up dropping a ton of mobs.  Even though they are mixed races, I haven't seen any battles down there yet.  But I did play one small map (2x2) where several different sieges came at the same time and basically wiped each other out.  I only had a few mobs to mop up afterwards.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: darkflagrance on February 03, 2011, 10:55:04 am
Yup.  After 2 years, all hell breaks loose.  You better be prepared or you're screwed.

Sometimes the armies attack each other.  Sometimes, they don't.  I haven't played enough (3 games so far with this mod) to tell.  They always attack goblins, though.  I haven't had to kill a single goblin yet since installing this mod (err..thieves, maybe).

I have a big pit trap where I usually end up dropping a ton of mobs.  Even though they are mixed races, I haven't seen any battles down there yet.  But I did play one small map (2x2) where several different sieges came at the same time and basically wiped each other out.  I only had a few mobs to mop up afterwards.

They most likely attack goblins due to the presence/absence of speech capability via [INTELLIGENT] / [CAN_SPEAK]. However, I suspect that this is caused by a change introduced in the latest version that causes all races to have increased hostility.

I tried to avoid changing the default races in Fortress Defense so that the mod only added to the base DF install. Either way, there's no silver bullet solution that I can see given that either way inter-racial conflict is a high possibility. Maybe the next version of DF will eliminate this bug - after all, it's also causing goblin squads to kill their own leaders.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: Aidan Pryde on February 04, 2011, 09:30:41 pm
Hello,

I'm sorry I just had question related to the Fortress Defense Mod.  I've been using and it's a great mod, thank you very much!  I've been messing with the raws lately to make all the enemies butcherable except the Nightwings and other more challenging ones.  Anyway, I edited the ethics to allow eating and making totems out of sapient creatures, however my dwarves still won't butcher for example the frogmen.

To fix this I tried removing the [CAN_LEARN] token from them.  That seemed to make it work just fine.  However, before I do that to continue with the game, I wanted to make sure that somebody didn't know of any problems that might crop up like an inability to lay siege or something.  Thank you for your help!
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: darkflagrance on February 04, 2011, 11:32:23 pm
When you remove [CAN_LEARN] from a species, the species is prevented from gaining levels in skills like, for example, Fighting, Engraving, Dodging, etc. So if you remove [CAN_LEARN] from Fortress Defense enemies, you will never fight legendary enemies, and every grunt you kill will be the equivalent of a fresh recruit.

Changing the ethics for your dwarven civilization would have also circumvented the problem of dwarves refusing to eat sentient creatures. The problem is that ethics changes only apply when a new world is created. Once a civilizations ethics have been set for a generated world, further changes to their ethics will not actually alter their in-game behavior. So, if you generate a new world with the changes to ethics you implemented, your new dwarves will be happy to eat frogmen and other sentient beings.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: Aidan Pryde on February 05, 2011, 01:16:50 am
Hmm, that's what I thought.

Thank you for the information!
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: rephikul on February 07, 2011, 02:03:23 am
is it intentional for some races to have pet tags?
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: darkflagrance on February 07, 2011, 10:16:01 am
is it intentional for some races to have pet tags?

I was kinda hoping tigermen might be tamable with them, but the tags don't actually seem to do anything.
Title: Re: [0.31.18] Fortress Defense Mod II v4: Enemies May Evaporate Upon Death
Post by: darkflagrance on February 16, 2011, 02:02:39 pm
I've done a preliminary evaluation of the changes in the new version of DF, and I think the only changes I will need to make to this mod are to give    [NO_DRINK][NO_EAT] to all of the creatures in the mod.

However, I would be wary of playing the current version of DF due to such bugs as kobold mass extinction due to starving to death in less than a decade of world gen.

I will also make these updates to the Intensifying Mod files. Of course, anyone is free to add the tags to the creatures him or herself without needing to download a new version.

Edit: new files uploaded. The Fortress Defense Version linked from the Intensifying Mod has also been updated for the new version.

All Fortress Defense files are back-compatible with 0.31.18
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: SalmonGod on February 17, 2011, 08:48:33 am
Just found a tigermen civ named The Brilliant Slaughter.  On the other side of the world is a human civ named The Nation of Hugs.  Freaking amazing  :D
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: kerlc on February 21, 2011, 12:58:28 am
i was attacked by tigermen after the first year. due to my walls i was safe, until i tried lowering the bridge to lure them to my traps. what followed was a massacre.
fortunately 3 of my people survived, 1 of them was berserk. the poor tigermen bastards.

the berserk one survived, killed the remaining tigermen in the process and then drowned.
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: rephikul on February 21, 2011, 01:18:41 am
if i'm not mistaken even berserk people follow civilian burrow alerts so you probably could have hung onto him until the next immigrant wave.
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: darkflagrance on February 21, 2011, 01:47:03 am
I don't think berserkers are suicidal either - he might have died due to dodging an attack into the wrong tile.
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: kerlc on February 22, 2011, 03:17:55 am
I don't think berserkers are suicidal either - he might have died due to dodging an attack into the wrong tile.
yes, he dodged an attack of my own traps! but whatever, got the place up and running again.

oh, yeah, under siege by like 5 different races. no, 4. the goblins were massacred by the frogmen.
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: Kogut on February 22, 2011, 03:26:03 am
Is it possible to make sieges cooperating? Now it is typical to have multiple sieges at the same time, everybody killing everybody. My military is sometimes used only as haulers.
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: darkflagrance on February 23, 2011, 01:06:57 pm
Is it possible to make sieges cooperating? Now it is typical to have multiple sieges at the same time, everybody killing everybody. My military is sometimes used only as haulers.

I think the problem has to do with an as yet unresolved bug with how historical/fortress mode allegiances are handled.

However, I am trying to find a stop-gap solution in the meantime.
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: Kogut on February 23, 2011, 01:41:06 pm
Main problem is with multiple sieges in the same time - is it moddable to have siege-month-siege-month-siege instead of 3_months-3_sieges?
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: darkflagrance on February 23, 2011, 03:26:57 pm
Main problem is with multiple sieges in the same time - is it moddable to have siege-month-siege-month-siege instead of 3_months-3_sieges?

Not really; the most that can be done is restricting the seasons in which enemy sieges arrive so that only one siege max arrives per season.

Actually, it would be trivial to convert Fortress Defense into this kind of mod; I'd probably go about it by keeping Tigermen, Hellfire Imps, Blendecs, and Nagas for the four seasons, one each. One could also use Elephants, Warwolves, Imps, and Nightwings instead if the aforementioned four aren't challenging enough. Goblins might randomly crash the party but oh well.
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: Kogut on February 23, 2011, 03:29:01 pm
It is not a good idea to make it impossible but to stop it happening every single time.
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: kerlc on February 24, 2011, 03:55:38 am
i am sorry, bu in my case, i have been besieged by tigermen, frogmen, dark stranglers and nagas, and they don't mind eachother, but they savagely murdered some goblins when they arrived. and they have killed all the elven hippy merchants. i'm not sure whether should i congratulate them on that or not.

well, my cage traps are full, and my pit for throwing in enemies also, but the giant tower surrounded by spikes will be soon complete. (10 z-levels drop onto spikes. tested out with my yak bull. it works!)
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: Mickey Blue on February 26, 2011, 05:49:08 pm
Random question (sorry don't have time to read through nineteen pages right now), but can any of the new races destroy buildings (specifically doors/floodgates)? Just curious.

-MB
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: EveryZig on March 03, 2011, 07:55:46 am
I am commenting to say that I love the new mod, but hellfire imps should NOT have dragonfire. Not because of it's power against creatures, but because they will melt your bridges and thus trap themselves outside your base.
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on March 03, 2011, 10:06:00 am
Then don't make bridges out of flammable material.
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: EveryZig on March 03, 2011, 12:50:56 pm
Then don't make bridges out of flammable material.
I didn;t say they burned, I said they melted. The bridge (all three bridges that ere hit, actually) were made of stone. I didn't have magma safe stone at the time I made the bridges, and I wanted to color code them. I suppose I could have brought some bauxite with me on embark... Maybe there should be a warning in the section on Hellfire Imps that they can melt non-magma-safe things (when breath attacking)?
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: rephikul on March 03, 2011, 01:03:05 pm
it reads hellfire. What do you think?
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: darkflagrance on March 03, 2011, 04:04:54 pm
Random question (sorry don't have time to read through nineteen pages right now), but can any of the new races destroy buildings (specifically doors/floodgates)? Just curious.

-MB

Technically, I removed building destroyer from all of them for FPS reasons (though it is easy to add back in)...but apparently Hellfire Imps are capable of melting stone bridges. >:)

As for updates, I am currently swamped with work and applications for my future, so I will be forced to take care of these before I am able to update, unfortunately.
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: adwarf on March 03, 2011, 04:50:24 pm
I love this mod. Just started I made a custom world with 10,000 points bought a ton of animals, food, booze, and giant swallow eggs ( do they hatch and make friendly giant swallows ? )

Can I put the entities in seprately ?
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: EveryZig on March 03, 2011, 05:10:58 pm
it reads hellfire. What do you think?
I thought more powerful fireballs. Not fireballs that destroy the path into your fort.
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: darkflagrance on March 03, 2011, 05:47:54 pm
I love this mod. Just started I made a custom world with 10,000 points bought a ton of animals, food, booze, and giant swallow eggs ( do they hatch and make friendly giant swallows ? )

Can I put the entities in seprately ?

Yes; allowing that degree of customization is why the entities are separated out inside a sub-folder.

it reads hellfire. What do you think?
I thought more powerful fireballs. Not fireballs that destroy the path into your fort.

I supposed all's far in war. If you feel that they are too much, feel free to mod out the dragon firebreath.
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: Flare on March 03, 2011, 07:45:41 pm
Random question (sorry don't have time to read through nineteen pages right now), but can any of the new races destroy buildings (specifically doors/floodgates)? Just curious.

-MB

A lot of the bipedal civilizations will occasionally ride war animals, sometimes one that can bring down buildings. A lot of them can also open doors.
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: adwarf on March 03, 2011, 07:50:14 pm
Just throw your men into the the fight who does not like a free for all
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: Flare on March 03, 2011, 08:53:20 pm
If anyone is interested, Johtunn skeletons are magma resistant.
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: adwarf on March 03, 2011, 09:08:03 pm
If anyone is interested, Johtunn skeletons are magma resistant.

Something else dwarves can't kill with magma. BY GOD THEY WOULD THROW THEMSELVES IN MAGMA BEFORE THEY LET THAT HAPPEN !!!!
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: Flare on March 03, 2011, 11:14:21 pm
No, no. Their flesh is NOT magma safe as I've found, only their bones are.
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: JJtoocool on March 04, 2011, 06:01:54 am
I was reading the Elephant description, and I scrolled down in the middle of it to read the rest. I scrolled too far and read the middle of the night wing description instead:

"No, that size is not a typo. Elephants are massive, and they have come to lay waste to your fort just as they did the fortresses of old, only this time they come wielding cruel weapons of steel, experience neither pain nor fear, disable your traps, are free of any need for breath or nourishment, and worst of all, they can fly on their leathery wings."

When elephants can fly...
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: schussel on March 04, 2011, 07:18:51 am
killerdumbos from beyond the realms of horror? :)
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: adwarf on March 04, 2011, 07:25:12 am
I can't wait for my first siege I already have a defense plan.
I will seal my entrance off, byild another layer of walls ontop, build a bridge, and build ramps down.
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: darkflagrance on March 04, 2011, 11:07:57 am
I was reading the Elephant description, and I scrolled down in the middle of it to read the rest. I scrolled too far and read the middle of the night wing description instead:

"No, that size is not a typo. Elephants are massive, and they have come to lay waste to your fort just as they did the fortresses of old, only this time they come wielding cruel weapons of steel, experience neither pain nor fear, disable your traps, are free of any need for breath or nourishment, and worst of all, they can fly on their leathery wings."

When elephants can fly...

It might be likely than you think...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on March 05, 2011, 09:58:50 am
So, I started a fort and my first migrant wave brought me a high master weaponsmith and a something or other armorer. No sieges yet though, and my 19 soldiers are waiting for a fight.
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: Rask on March 05, 2011, 10:07:40 am
Argh! The hellfire imps blew up my drawbridge! They aren't allowed to do that! The three other sieges took advantage of that to storm my fortress, but fortunately the military was up to handling them. Still, that was a nasty, nasty surprise.
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: adwarf on March 05, 2011, 10:49:45 am
I don't have a military I have like thirty war dogs, thirty goat kids, and about 150 other animals ( I mean that literally )
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: kerlc on March 05, 2011, 11:14:19 am
i want the dark stranglers to use armor, just some mail shirts. for use in military, aswell to have more FUN. how? i tried messing around their ENTITY file. but id does not work. some instructions, please?
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: adwarf on March 05, 2011, 12:40:36 pm
I am going to make a fortress with just wood. See how long I last with just crossbows, and wood wepons.
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: rephikul on March 05, 2011, 07:52:51 pm
i want the dark stranglers to use armor, just some mail shirts. for use in military, aswell to have more FUN. how? i tried messing around their ENTITY file. but id does not work. some instructions, please?
They dont have access to the jobs needed to produce those pieces I believe.
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: Greep on March 06, 2011, 06:41:31 am
I am going to make a fortress with just wood. See how long I last with just crossbows, and wood wepons.

Tried something like that in vanilla a year ago,  was quite Fun!  (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=58128.msg1282675#msg1282675) I doubt it would be possible now without danger rooms, experience is painfully slow to gain now.

I think I'll give this mod a shot after my succession fort's turn.  Does it work well in .31.19?
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: adwarf on March 06, 2011, 08:23:20 am
Yay it does I play it in latest version, and so far no problems.
Title: Re: [0.31.19] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: darkflagrance on March 06, 2011, 11:14:04 am
i want the dark stranglers to use armor, just some mail shirts. for use in military, aswell to have more FUN. how? i tried messing around their ENTITY file. but id does not work. some instructions, please?

Try giving their creature file entry [EQUIPS]. You might also need to copy the appropriate item entries for weapons/armor from other entities.

I am going to make a fortress with just wood. See how long I last with just crossbows, and wood wepons.

Tried something like that in vanilla a year ago,  was quite Fun!  (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=58128.msg1282675#msg1282675) I doubt it would be possible now without danger rooms, experience is painfully slow to gain now.

I think I'll give this mod a shot after my succession fort's turn.  Does it work well in .31.19?

I checked over the changes from .18 to .19, and the only significant change that needed taking care of was related to the food requirements of civs in legends mode.

As for the new version, this mod should still theoretically be compatible with it. I haven't noticed any game breaking bug fixes, although if you're trying to fight off endless waves of sieges without steel, all I have to say is...godspeed.

On a slightly off-topic note, I went to go post in the Raspeddiamonds thread, only to see that I was already the penultimate post.
Title: Re: [0.31.19/20] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on March 06, 2011, 05:31:51 pm
I'm playing the 31.18 version and at this rate, my 30 dwarf military will have steel equipment before the first siege! I had most, if not all, civs at embark and it's almost the end of my second year. Is this normal?
Title: Re: [0.31.19/20] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: darkflagrance on March 06, 2011, 06:59:57 pm
I'm playing the 31.18 version and at this rate, my 30 dwarf military will have steel equipment before the first siege! I had most, if not all, civs at embark and it's almost the end of my second year. Is this normal?

Keep playing and see what happens. From my experience, civ behavior varies a great deal, and there is only one civ capable of attacking you at sub ~50 dwarves
Title: Re: [0.31.19/20] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on March 06, 2011, 08:06:44 pm
I've only recently gotten (read : Beggining of year 2) over 50 dwarves.
Title: Re: [0.31.19/20] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: darkflagrance on March 06, 2011, 08:08:59 pm
I've only recently gotten (read : Beggining of year 2) over 50 dwarves.

It might take a season or so before enemy civs acknowledge your power, or perhaps you need to do a little more trading. Either way, if enemies don't appear after a long time, feel free to upload the save and let me take a look at it.
Title: Re: [0.31.19/20] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on March 06, 2011, 08:22:04 pm
I've been putting no restrictions on my managing, trading dozens of masterwork earings for a seed. I bet they'll come soon enough though. Goblins beat em to it, but I'm not complaining.

EDIT: My population is 77, my created wealth is 278,726 and my exported wealth is 78,476. I believe I'll be sieged soon.

EDIT2: It's working, and is congealed vaporstone do anything? I've got about 16 of it after a putrid blendec siege.
Title: Re: [0.31.19/20/21] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: darkflagrance on March 08, 2011, 04:48:27 pm
Are you playing with temperature off? Vaporstone is supposed to evaporate at room temperature. If it is not, I will have to change that for future releases.
Title: Re: [0.31.19/20/21] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on March 08, 2011, 04:56:47 pm
Yeah I have tempature off. FPS is bad on my computer even with constant DFcleanmap.
Title: Re: [0.31.19/20/21] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: darkflagrance on March 08, 2011, 11:54:15 pm
Yeah I have tempature off. FPS is bad on my computer even with constant DFcleanmap.

Ah, having temperature off causes it to solidify. It doesn't break the game or anything to be playing with vaporstone, but you can be rid of it but turning temperature back on for a few moments, letting it evaporate, and then turn temperature back off.
Title: Re: [0.31.19/20/21] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: kzel on March 09, 2011, 08:11:53 am
I took some tiles from Ironhand (the elephant) and from Mayday, then edited them to make some creatures with my poor spriting skills.

Here they are:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Some of them are pretty wide shots, please tell me if they don't fit in your view of the creatures.
Title: Re: [0.31.19/20/21] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: darkflagrance on March 09, 2011, 11:40:09 am
I took some tiles from Ironhand (the elephant) and from Mayday, then edited them to make some creatures with my poor spriting skills.

Here they are:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Some of them are pretty wide shots, please tell me if they don't fit in your view of the creatures.

They look great! You have my gratitude for creating them ...How does one add them as graphics? If/when I figure this out, with your permission I'll attempt a release of a packaged graphics version of Fortress Defense.

I guess I'd have to ask Ironhand/Mayday/other sources for permission as well.
Title: Re: [0.31.19/20/21] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: kzel on March 09, 2011, 02:44:03 pm
Glad you like them. I've already made a graphics file to test them out in arena mode, but I didn't try each weapon variation. I also noticed Mayday already had tiles for basic blendecs and nightwings, looking quite different from mine... Ah well, here's what they look like in-game.

(http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/4987/50031333.png) (http://img713.imageshack.us/i/50031333.png/)

Paste the spoilered text in a new file named "graphics_fd.txt" and rename the above picture "fd.png". Copy all of that in your graphics directory and it should work. Failing that I'll just upload the both of them in an archive on DFFD.

Spoiler: graphics_fd.txt (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [0.31.19/20/21] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: kerlc on March 10, 2011, 01:15:47 pm
really awesome.

ps.: i have problems, the sieging armies do not want to go! they killed all the liasons, traders, and elves(yay!). wich in term, brought me to war with all the vanilla civs. HELP!
Title: Re: [0.31.19/20/21] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: schussel on March 11, 2011, 07:06:59 am
create short trader routes from below finish them the short window when sieges leave for a month(happens every year and create slaughter rooms on each corner where you can sela in the caravan and a part of the ambush and pelt them with arrows/water/magma from above/sides via fortifications

let em in close entrance via above placed bridge then slaughter those ^^

if you are lucky and get the siege leader too chances are they are gone for good time after that^^
Title: Re: [0.31.19/20/21] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: Warped on March 11, 2011, 09:08:16 am
Glad you like them. I've already made a graphics file to test them out in arena mode, but I didn't try each weapon variation. I also noticed Mayday already had tiles for basic blendecs and nightwings, looking quite different from mine... Ah well, here's what they look like in-game.

(http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/4987/50031333.png) (http://img713.imageshack.us/i/50031333.png/)

Paste the spoilered text in a new file named "graphics_fd.txt" and rename the above picture "fd.png". Copy all of that in your graphics directory and it should work. Failing that I'll just upload the both of them in an archive on DFFD.

Spoiler: graphics_fd.txt (click to show/hide)

Does adding this require a regen or can you add it to an already running fort?

@darkflagrance - Thanks for this mod! I've really enjoyed the challenge. I have a question. I'm in year 10 and I've seen stranglers, Tigermen, Warwolves, Furies and Putrid guys(or whatever they are called) but that's all. Will I eventually see the other enenmy civs?
Title: Re: [0.31.19/20/21] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: schussel on March 11, 2011, 09:41:21 am
adding  graphics usually dont require a regen but you might need to update the save raws too for it to work^^
Title: Re: [0.31.19/20/21] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on March 11, 2011, 10:50:39 am
@darkflagrance - Thanks for this mod! I've really enjoyed the challenge. I have a question. I'm in year 10 and I've seen stranglers, Tigermen, Warwolves, Furies and Putrid guys(or whatever they are called) but that's all. Will I eventually see the other enenmy civs?
I saw imps on year 2 so I'm not sure what's with your civs. Maybe it's your wealth or access.
Title: Re: [0.31.19/20] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: nil on March 11, 2011, 03:53:47 pm
...From my experience, civ behavior varies a great deal, and there is only one civ capable of attacking you at sub ~50 dwarves
I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on the mechanics of this.  I strongly suspected it had a lot to do with the size and proximity of the enemy civs in 40d, but obviously could never be sure.
Title: Re: [0.31.19/20/21] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: Warped on March 12, 2011, 01:50:47 pm
Glad you like them. I've already made a graphics file to test them out in arena mode, but I didn't try each weapon variation. I also noticed Mayday already had tiles for basic blendecs and nightwings, looking quite different from mine... Ah well, here's what they look like in-game.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Paste the spoilered text in a new file named "graphics_fd.txt" and rename the above picture "fd.png". Copy all of that in your graphics directory and it should work. Failing that I'll just upload the both of them in an archive on DFFD.

Spoiler: graphics_fd.txt (click to show/hide)

Unfortunately, I couldn't get your graphics to work. When the enemies showed up they were just weird blurs like someone's face if they've seen the Ring movie.
Title: Re: [0.31.19/20/21] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: kzel on March 12, 2011, 02:24:37 pm
I've uploaded the two files on dffd, maybe Imageshack converted the image or something.

Paste the two files in your raw's graphics folder. Don't forget your save's raw folder too.

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3956

Here are some screenshots from the Airfail succession:

(http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/4664/autumnblndecoverrun.png)

(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/853/frogmensiege.png)
Title: Re: [0.31.19/20/21] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: Warped on March 12, 2011, 08:27:29 pm
Awesome. That file works perfectly. Thanks so much.
Title: Re: [0.31.19/20/21] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: Kogut on March 16, 2011, 07:12:36 am
Quote
Dwarf Fortress: Fortress Defense Mod II

v0.05

For Dwarf Fortress versions 31.19 and earlier.

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3081

Quote
Post reply (  Re: [0.31.19/20/21] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food! ) 
?
Title: Re: [0.31.19/20/21] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: Kogut on March 16, 2011, 10:01:17 am
I noticed many, many crashes in DF 21during worldgen - is it mod problem or more general?
Title: Re: [0.31.19/20/21] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: darkflagrance on March 16, 2011, 10:41:54 pm
I noticed many, many crashes in DF 21during worldgen - is it mod problem or more general?

It's likely to be a problem with DF 0.21. Got the crash logs just to be sure?

I got my course work out of the way (not) so I'm going to make an update to the mod. I hope to incorporate the graphics pack if you don't mind, kzel. At least, I'll link it from the OP.

...From my experience, civ behavior varies a great deal, and there is only one civ capable of attacking you at sub ~50 dwarves
I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on the mechanics of this.  I strongly suspected it had a lot to do with the size and proximity of the enemy civs in 40d, but obviously could never be sure.

I only have my experiments that the progress triggers still correspond to similar values as the previous version, but that Toady changed the 0 trigger so that instant sieges are no longer possible.

From anecdotal evidence in the forums, I've gathered that the proximity and size of an enemy population tends to be related to the frequency of enemy sieges, but I've never been able to gather anything certain. The problem is that lately I haven't had as much time as I used to conduct testing.
Title: Re: [0.31.19/20/21] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: Kogut on March 17, 2011, 02:01:07 am
I noticed many, many crashes in DF 21during worldgen - is it mod problem or more general?

It's likely to be a problem with DF 0.21. Got the crash logs just to be sure?

Unfortunately no, but I can replicate it.
Title: Re: [0.31.19/20/21] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: Kogut on March 17, 2011, 02:09:24 am
medium world + high amount of civs/places -> crash

I have plenty of RAM/CPU etc

Podpis problemu:
  Nazwa zdarzenia problemu:   APPCRASH
  Nazwa aplikacji:   Dwarf Fortress.exe
  Wersja aplikacji:   0.0.0.0
  Sygnatura czasowa aplikacji:   4d743da7
  Nazwa modułu z błędem:   Dwarf Fortress.exe
  Wersja modułu z błędem:   0.0.0.0
  Sygnatura czasowa modułu z błędem:   4d743da7
  Kod wyjątku:   c0000005
  Przesunięcie wyjątku:   001e7d1d
  Wersja systemu operacyjnego:   6.1.7600.2.0.0.768.3
  Identyfikator ustawień regionalnych:   1045
  Dodatkowe informacje 1:   0a9e
  Dodatkowe informacje 2:   0a9e372d3b4ad19135b953a78882e789
  Dodatkowe informacje 3:   0a9e
  Dodatkowe informacje 4:   0a9e372d3b4ad19135b953a78882e789

or

Podpis problemu:
  Nazwa zdarzenia problemu:   APPCRASH
  Nazwa aplikacji:   Dwarf Fortress.exe
  Wersja aplikacji:   0.0.0.0
  Sygnatura czasowa aplikacji:   4d743da7
  Nazwa modułu z błędem:   Dwarf Fortress.exe
  Wersja modułu z błędem:   0.0.0.0
  Sygnatura czasowa modułu z błędem:   4d743da7
  Kod wyjątku:   c0000005
  Przesunięcie wyjątku:   001e7d1d
  Wersja systemu operacyjnego:   6.1.7600.2.0.0.768.3
  Identyfikator ustawień regionalnych:   1045
  Dodatkowe informacje 1:   0a9e
  Dodatkowe informacje 2:   0a9e372d3b4ad19135b953a78882e789
  Dodatkowe informacje 3:   0a9e
  Dodatkowe informacje 4:   0a9e372d3b4ad19135b953a78882e789

Empty errorlog
Title: Re: [0.31.19/20/21] Fortress Defense Mod II v5: Nightwings consume fear, not food!
Post by: darkflagrance on March 17, 2011, 04:55:04 am
Hmmm. I will make some tests and see if the problem lies in many civs or the base Dwarf Fortress program itself. Either way, it is likely that .22 will be released soon, given that it is a bugfix version, so hopefully that issue will be resolved implicitly by then.

EDIT: I made some tests. I tried generating with the default amount of civs, and didn't encounter any crashes during world gen. I would try that first. If not, I would use older versions. 0.18 and up are all compatible versions with Fortress Defense II.

EDIT II: I got a single crash during world gen. However, that may have been because one of the extra civs I had added for test purposes had a body parts error. Fixing that error resulted in successful worldgens with no crashes.

My tests were conducted using the "Enter Advanced Parameters" option for Medium Regions.
Title: Re: [0.31.21] Fortress Defense Mod II v5x: Graphic Death and Gore! (Thanks kzel!)
Post by: darkflagrance on March 18, 2011, 12:09:29 am
Alright, decided to add a link in the OP to kzel's post...and included kzel's graphics in the main downloads. If there are any problems, feel free to let me know!
Title: Re: [0.31.21] Fortress Defense Mod II v5x: Graphic Death and Gore! (Thanks kzel!)
Post by: Diamond on March 22, 2011, 01:11:06 pm
So I've been playing with this mod for a while. Pretty nice and fairly well balanced, I think. But it would be pretty awesome to have the siegers fight each other, like they are fighting goblins currently. I remember that this happened in genesis mod with custom races, so the question is : how to make the sieging races fight each other ?
Title: Re: [0.31.21] Fortress Defense Mod II v5x: Graphic Death and Gore! (Thanks kzel!)
Post by: darkflagrance on March 23, 2011, 10:49:41 pm
Given reports on the past couple of pages, siegers do apparently fight each other as well. However, I prefer not to actively insert this as a feature because the enemies are supposed to be killing you, not each other.
Title: Re: [0.31.21] Fortress Defense Mod II v5x: Graphic Death and Gore! (Thanks kzel!)
Post by: dagger on March 24, 2011, 08:22:36 am
I had an epic invasion last night:

First Goblin Siege shows up, with basically a full army of gobos and another army of just bow gobos. Then an army of Blendec show up and finish off the renaming gobos, but I manage to butcher them. Problem is, at this point my traps are clogged and full of guts, but I dare not send out the civis to clean the traps. I make a choice and closed the draw bridge to give my guys a chance to rest. Anyway, another invasion starts, and its Nagas, but they get cut to pieces. Then another invasion happens just as I let my draw bridge down, and this time its Furies, so the draw bridge would not have mattered. This battle was actually tough but I finish them off inside the barracks. Then an orc (from the Orc mod I also added but forgot about) invasion happens, and they proceed to clear the map of all stragglers. Basically I am at a standstill, with tons of Orcs outside and a Fell Beast made of Vomit down below. Also had an ambush of Hell Fire Imps at some point....

One question, during the multiple sieges I had some blizzard men show up and get slaughtered, did they come with an invasion force? I had not seen any before and have not seen any since.

Title: Re: [0.31.21] Fortress Defense Mod II v5x: Graphic Death and Gore! (Thanks kzel!)
Post by: darkflagrance on March 24, 2011, 09:12:16 pm
I had an epic invasion last night:

First Goblin Siege shows up, with basically a full army of gobos and another army of just bow gobos. Then an army of Blendec show up and finish off the renaming gobos, but I manage to butcher them. Problem is, at this point my traps are clogged and full of guts, but I dare not send out the civis to clean the traps. I make a choice and closed the draw bridge to give my guys a chance to rest. Anyway, another invasion starts, and its Nagas, but they get cut to pieces. Then another invasion happens just as I let my draw bridge down, and this time its Furies, so the draw bridge would not have mattered. This battle was actually tough but I finish them off inside the barracks. Then an orc (from the Orc mod I also added but forgot about) invasion happens, and they proceed to clear the map of all stragglers. Basically I am at a standstill, with tons of Orcs outside and a Fell Beast made of Vomit down below. Also had an ambush of Hell Fire Imps at some point....

One question, during the multiple sieges I had some blizzard men show up and get slaughtered, did they come with an invasion force? I had not seen any before and have not seen any since.



Nah, the blizzard men were part of your biome. any wild animals on your map might prevent new ones from coming in, so kill those off if you want to see more.

Also, in theory this mod should work with .22. I can't test because I've got too much work. However, given that some bugs were introduced with .22 like disabler of natural skills that affects the challenge of this mod, it might be advisable to wait for the inevitable meta-bugfix .23 release in a couple of days or so.
Title: Re: [0.31.21] Fortress Defense Mod II v5x: Graphic Death and Gore! (Thanks kzel!)
Post by: Serrational on March 25, 2011, 04:15:05 am
Thanks for this mod, man! Slows down world gen a lot, but the pain, agony and fun makes it all worth it!
Might want to try and speed up world gen though.
Title: Re: [0.31.21] Fortress Defense Mod II v5x: Graphic Death and Gore! (Thanks kzel!)
Post by: Kogut on March 25, 2011, 09:20:53 am
It is rather DF part. I would welcome update to .22.
Title: Re: [0.31.21] Fortress Defense Mod II v5x: Graphic Death and Gore! (Thanks kzel!)
Post by: darkflagrance on March 25, 2011, 05:36:59 pm
Thanks for this mod, man! Slows down world gen a lot, but the pain, agony and fun makes it all worth it!
Might want to try and speed up world gen though.

There's no easy way as far as I can see to increase the speed of world gen, because no matter what, DF still has to simulate each civilization. You could try turning down the number of civs generated in your world gen - besides, Fortress Defense works better with shorter world gens, so that less of the enemy races die out.

It is rather DF part. I would welcome update to .22.

Since Toady is about to release .23, I'm going to wait the couple of days until its release. Until then, I think the .21 version should still be compatible with .22 anyway.
Title: Re: [0.31.21] Fortress Defense Mod II v5x: Graphic Death and Gore! (Thanks kzel!)
Post by: Kogut on March 26, 2011, 02:52:08 am
Yeah, lack of iron + siege just destroyed my fort.
Title: Re: [0.31.21] Fortress Defense Mod II v5x: Graphic Death and Gore! (Thanks kzel!)
Post by: Kogut on March 27, 2011, 10:18:04 am
Worldgen bug reported on mantis: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=4358

And fixed in 0.31.25!

"It didn't like that all the trouble-causing monsters of every kind in the world were dead. Apparently the civs were very thorough." - Toady the Great
Title: Re: [0.31.21] Fortress Defense Mod II v5x: Graphic Death and Gore! (Thanks kzel!)
Post by: darkflagrance on March 28, 2011, 08:41:49 pm
Worldgen bug reported on mantis: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=4358

And fixed in 0.31.25!

"It didn't like that all the trouble-causing monsters of every kind in the world were dead. Apparently the civs were very thorough." - Toady the Great

Excellent! As far as I can see, there is no pressing reason to edit the mod for later versions. I will be looking it over anyway.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v5x: Graphic Death and Gore! (Thanks kzel!)
Post by: LordBucket on April 01, 2011, 02:30:23 am
So, I just had my first second third invading force while using Fortress Defense.

I'm coming back to DWarf Fortress after having not played for a year. I used to play with Dig Deeper, but that seems to have been abandoned and from looking around the forums, Fortress Defense seems to be the new "go to" mod.

My first Dig Deeper fort, six months after embark, ~20 orcs with exceptional quality steel weapons showed up and slaughtered my outnumbered dwarves. My second Dig Deeper fort I discovered that orcs were TRAP_IMMUNE. It took quite a few obliterated forts to learn how to cope with that, and when installing Fortress Defese, I pretty much expected to get killed in the same way while I learned how to cope with not just orcs, but ten new hostile civiizations.

Apparently Fortress Defense is a kinder, gentler mod than I expected. Which is probably not a bad thing, but here is the tale:

In the flatlands fortress of Girderpass, shortly after Summer of my second year I saw the dreaded siege warning:

A Vile Force of Darkness has arrived!

 I checked the list and saw that I was under attack by a group of 9 tigerpeople: 8 swordsmen and one hammerer.  When I first installed Fortress Defense I had briefly glanced through the monster descriptions, and I was pretty sure that tiger people were the third of the new civilizations. So having apparently skipped over the first two, I figured I was pretty much done for. But nine was a much smaller a force than I expected, so I didn't completely lose hope. I began gathering up my dwarves, only to discover that the "Dwarves Stay Indoors" setting of previous versions has apparently been removed, and resigned myself to losing several craftsmen, if I even managed to stay alive at all.

A Vile Force of Darkness has arrived!

What, seriously? The first invasion force hasn't even reached my front gate, and another siege arrives? Dark stranglers, apparently. With two siege armies arriving at once, I figured I was pretty much toast. The 14 dwarves of my military were in position aboveground, behind the arrow-blocking wall inside the keep, waiting for the onslaught. A few assorted craftspeople decided now would be a good time to randomly wander around outside. Oh well. Wasn't expecting the fort to survive. A few early deaths would just speed up the process.

An ambush! Curse them!

You're kidding, right? Two sieges and now goblins show up? I didn't even bother checking the list of new arrivals and just sat looking at the carefully constructed chokepoint leading to the only entrance to my soon to be doomed fortress, as the pack of tiger peoples charged up to it...

...and then suddenly turned and ran away before even getting in range of my military.

Apparently they're not trap immune, and when the first several had assorted arms and legs sheared off by iron serrated discs, the rest lost interest. I remembered reading in the notes that the first couple new civiliations weren't TRAP_IMMUNE, so I wasn't totally surprised that the traps hurt them, but with Dig Deeper I remember orcs would sometimes spend months locked in an auto-repeating upright spike trap room, outhealing all damage. So I wasn't really expecting that little 3x3 field of weapon traps to repel the entire siege.

As for the others, they never got that far. The stranglers and the goblins decided to ignore me and fight each other, and after a few deaths they both ran away too. Leaving my military wondering if that year they spent danger-room training was really justified.

Snatcher! Protect the Children!

Umm, ok. Sorry dude, you're a little late to the party. Never saw what happened to the snatcher, but between two sieges and an ambush not a single one of my dwarves was injured, and there were surprisingly few corpses. The vast majority of the attackers ran away at first blood. Checking the combat logs I saw a lot of trap dodges and parries, so I'm not totally sure but I think the first few made it past the weapons traps to the first row of stonefall traps, but by the time they did, some of the invaders further back started dying to the weapons traps, and then the whole group decided to turn around and leave, going back over the weapons traps a second time. I think that's how the tigerhammerer died.

---

So, looking to the future, I'm much less concerned about being hopelessly slaughtered than I was. From Dig Deeper I'm used to massive sieges of armored, TRAP_IMMUNE orcs weilding high quality steel weapons. Pages and pages of invaders, so strong and well equipped and numerous that pits and drowning chambers and spike rooms and lava are the only practical way to deal with then. I' used to having 50% of my dwarves trained as multiple legendary champions in steel armor...not to repel sieges, but just in case a couple slip through the fixed defenses.

In retrospect, Dig Deeper was probably too much. The orcs came in such numbers, so soon, and so well equipped that there was basically no way to have a military deal with them. You could embark with 7 military dwarves and do nothing but train until the siege came and still die.

Fortress Defense looks like it offers a much more reasonable pace, with simple monsters at first, and gradually growing to tougher and more difficult ones.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v5x: Graphic Death and Gore! (Thanks kzel!)
Post by: snelg on April 01, 2011, 06:35:38 am
I began gathering up my dwarves, only to discover that the "Dwarves Stay Indoors" setting of previous versions has apparently been removed, and resigned myself to losing several craftsmen, if I even managed to stay alive at all.
The burrows (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Burrows) cover the function of "dwarves stay indoors". It's a little more work to set up than before, but it's a nice improvement once you figure out how they work.  :)
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v5x: Graphic Death and Gore! (Thanks kzel!)
Post by: TurkeyXIII on April 01, 2011, 08:55:54 am
After reading your tale, I'm ashamed that my last fort to die did so from a single siege of 8 tigermen.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v5x: Graphic Death and Gore! (Thanks kzel!)
Post by: darkflagrance on April 01, 2011, 12:28:01 pm
Yeah, one of the things I took from Relentless Assault was the idea of a progression. Furthermore, since the current version of Dwarf Fortress doesn't allow modders to specify immediate attacks at zero population (minimum required is 20), the assault curve is further relaxed.

On the traps issue, I've found that whether or not invaders are TRAP_AVOID or not, the end result is the same: if the player thinks traps are exploity, he either won't use them, or he'll mod in things that are immune to them, resulting in his not using traps anyway. So, I decided that I would leave in the option to set up basic trap defenses to cripple or weaken the early sieges, or even annihilate them for resources, but made later sieges trap-immune so that this approach would not work on them and force the use of more tactics. Besides, allowing traps to work on some foes and not others sets up the possibility for multiple kinds of defense that can effectively defend a fort.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v5x: Graphic Death and Gore! (Thanks kzel!)
Post by: Ilikor on April 02, 2011, 02:57:31 pm
Nightwings with bows are scary.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v5x: Graphic Death and Gore! (Thanks kzel!)
Post by: Flare on April 05, 2011, 07:34:25 pm
Nightwings, period. Are scary. I don't know why they're not in the dfchallenge group, because I think they can pretty much demolish the jotuns, spider fiends, and the minotaurossi given that they don't let up until you hack them in half or cut off their head.

I've set a group of them on fire, and it didn't even slow them down. It's didn't even give them any injuries! You can't drown them in magma, in fact, unless they're confined into a tunnel, they're not going to die in magma. Most of the time they seem to be able to walk through the stuff unscathed.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v5x: Graphic Death and Gore! (Thanks kzel!)
Post by: darkflagrance on April 06, 2011, 08:58:53 am
Actually, head-to-head with same skills and equipment (swords), Minotauros and Jotuns massacre Nightwings with no losses.

Nightwings can only beat the two above if they use spears to exploit their natural undeadness.

Therefore, Nightwings are overall easier than Minotauros and Jotuns, but have the advantage of not being easily felled by spears. Jotun can also survive magma. I guess Minotauros will in general be more vulnerable to non-battle means of death.

Although, Fiend Spiders are admittedly pretty weak compared to all three above.

Finally, the beauty of Fortress Defense is that if you find any race too powerful, you can play without it by not using the files with all civs included, and instead playing with the individual entity files for the civs except the ones you dislike.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v5x: Graphic Death and Gore! (Thanks kzel!)
Post by: EddyP on April 08, 2011, 06:02:30 pm
A few quick notes from playing basic mode for a few days:

Megabeasts generally get wiped out after a hundred years by elephants and war wolves.

More significantly, the white tigerman general turned up without weapons or armour, and was easily dispatched by a maceman with a mace to the stomach then a kick to the head. Is this a bug? Every other tigerman I've seen has had weapons and armour.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v5x: Graphic Death and Gore! (Thanks kzel!)
Post by: Flare on April 08, 2011, 06:04:10 pm
They've all come naked as far as I've seen.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v5x: Graphic Death and Gore! (Thanks kzel!)
Post by: darkflagrance on April 08, 2011, 07:53:52 pm
Hmmm. I never noticed; usually the Tigermen generals died without my noticing when I tested. I'm going to start a new game and camp the Tigerman leader out to see if I can fix that problem. But leaders in Dwarf Fortress are bugged in general anyway.


As for megabeasts, I usually set them to [CLUSTER_SIZE: 10] :3
And I run short world gens.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v5x: Graphic Death and Gore! (Thanks kzel!)
Post by: Mechatronic on April 08, 2011, 08:35:00 pm
Ok, is there any way to deal with fire from hellfire imps? I've got a 31.18 fort that's six years old now, going along nicely with a population cap of 50 and I've reached the point where none of the races worry me. Except the imps. A bunch of them show up and start hurling around fire and it's "Urist McTakesOnWarElephantSquadsHimself has bled to death" spam.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v5x: Graphic Death and Gore! (Thanks kzel!)
Post by: darkflagrance on April 08, 2011, 09:08:33 pm
Ok, is there any way to deal with fire from hellfire imps? I've got a 31.18 fort that's six years old now, going along nicely with a population cap of 50 and I've reached the point where none of the races worry me. Except the imps. A bunch of them show up and start hurling around fire and it's "Urist McTakesOnWarElephantSquadsHimself has bled to death" spam.

That's partially why Hellfire Imps exist: they can match even the most powerful of dwarves despite limited martial ability. I think they tend to use their flame breath attack only at range, so if you can close with them using corners or other line-of-sight limiters they won't shoot as often. Their fireball attack is mostly for flash and doesn't really do damage to dwarves. I prefer to fight them with markstroops and fortifications.

It also helps to control how many enemy troops can focus on your squads at once and allow for redundancies in the military so losing champions is not a serious loss. When I play, even though I cap my population, I always try to make sure that there is a continuous flow of replacements; I use fresh, disposable recruits to draw their fire.


EDIT: Nevermind, based on what others have said, just use shields. That will nullify them pretty much.

How are the nightwings, by the way?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v5x: Graphic Death and Gore! (Thanks kzel!)
Post by: Flare on April 08, 2011, 11:20:12 pm
Fire imps have dragon breath IIRC, the only way to counter this is to divide up your squads into those that know how to use a shield and those that do not. Obviously the ones who knows how to block dragon fire should be sent in to deal with the them, you may think this gets a bit tricky when other forces are besieging as well, but I've always found it quite funny how their fire toasted even friendly troops.

I've lost squads to fire though, but not to fire imps strangely enough. It was fire from jotunar, it didn't hit any dwarves, but it hit the dry grass. From there I lost two full squads of 20 highly skilled dwarves because I could not pull them back fast enough to avoid the spreading fires.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v5x: Graphic Death and Gore! (Thanks kzel!)
Post by: Kogut on April 09, 2011, 02:01:25 am
As for megabeasts, I usually set them to [CLUSTER_SIZE: 10] :3
Where?

How are the nightwings, by the way?

For me? First siege was bugged (spawned, refused to move).

And I must ask - is it possible to do something with war elephant wrestlers riding on camels/giant eagles?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v5x: Graphic Death and Gore! (Thanks kzel!)
Post by: Mechatronic on April 09, 2011, 02:50:21 am
I've got a production line of  military dwarves working ok, I only have ten civilians, about 15 front line troops, about 15 second line troops who only fight the odd enemy that wanders past the front line troops, and the rest are newbies inside the civilian area of the fort. The front line troops are all legendary shield users and aren't (AFAIK) getting hit by the the fireballs, they are walking into fire on the ground started by them. It's hard to tell because no message seems to come up for that and they just eventually bleed to death. They also don't go to the hospital either for their wounds it seems.

I've tried building a limestone road outside, and it caught on fire and burnt down leaving some dead dwarves lying on furrowed soil. I tried building a long underground entrance, which works ok, mainly because other beseiging races normally flush them out before they get to my dwarves. I've tried flushing them out with my crapper axedwarves with mixed results: works ok for individual thieves but multiple ambush squads can sometime kill the axedwarves and rush to my entrance. I haven't tried marksdwarves.

I haven't had any problems with Nightwings for a few forts. Generally you can deal with elite flying bowmen by killing enough of their accompanying squads, causing them to leave the board. I've found the worst thing to do here is use marksdwarves, they'll tend to shoot the squds while getting shot themselves and don't kill stuff fast enough. Melee squads get the job done usually.

I have war elephants riding polar bears, which doesn't make sense either. They all end up dead regardless.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v5x: Graphic Death and Gore! (Thanks kzel!)
Post by: EddyP on April 09, 2011, 10:49:55 am
The Frogman War Leader has also come to mock me with his nudity.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v5x: Graphic Death and Gore! (Thanks kzel!)
Post by: darkflagrance on April 09, 2011, 01:52:45 pm
As for megabeasts, I usually set them to [CLUSTER_SIZE: 10] :3
Where?

How are the nightwings, by the way?

For me? First siege was bugged (spawned, refused to move).

And I must ask - is it possible to do something with war elephant wrestlers riding on camels/giant eagles?

The tag was [CLUSTER_NUMBER:1:1]. CLUSTER_SIZE was from 40d, it seems.

I'd say they were frozen due to FLIER tag issues. Not too bad, in that case they're similar to human sieges that camp you. The bug is in DF pathfinding, so it's a trade-off between enemies that can fly over your walls but get stuck sometimes and enemies that have to wait for the player to open the gate. There might be no good solution to that.

I've got a production line of  military dwarves working ok, I only have ten civilians, about 15 front line troops, about 15 second line troops who only fight the odd enemy that wanders past the front line troops, and the rest are newbies inside the civilian area of the fort. The front line troops are all legendary shield users and aren't (AFAIK) getting hit by the the fireballs, they are walking into fire on the ground started by them. It's hard to tell because no message seems to come up for that and they just eventually bleed to death. They also don't go to the hospital either for their wounds it seems.

I've tried building a limestone road outside, and it caught on fire and burnt down leaving some dead dwarves lying on furrowed soil. I tried building a long underground entrance, which works ok, mainly because other beseiging races normally flush them out before they get to my dwarves. I've tried flushing them out with my crapper axedwarves with mixed results: works ok for individual thieves but multiple ambush squads can sometime kill the axedwarves and rush to my entrance. I haven't tried marksdwarves.

I haven't had any problems with Nightwings for a few forts. Generally you can deal with elite flying bowmen by killing enough of their accompanying squads, causing them to leave the board. I've found the worst thing to do here is use marksdwarves, they'll tend to shoot the squds while getting shot themselves and don't kill stuff fast enough. Melee squads get the job done usually.

I have war elephants riding polar bears, which doesn't make sense either. They all end up dead regardless.

There's no way to prevent riding in the new DF, sadly.

Bridges and roads are vulnerable to flame. Use walls and constructed floors to avoid flames. I think stockpiles can't catch fire, so if you lay those out on grass, fire won't cross them.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v5x: Graphic Death and Gore! (Thanks kzel!)
Post by: Flare on April 09, 2011, 04:10:55 pm
How are the nightwings, by the way?

For me? First siege was bugged (spawned, refused to move).

Had you any traders move onto the map? I've had this happen to me too, sometimes a group of them would stay back and the rest of them would flood over the battlements. I initially thought it was due to the same behavior as the humans who would camp outside of the fortress and assault any caravans that entered the map. But I've never let them stay long enough for that to happen though.

I've tried building a limestone road outside, and it caught on fire and burnt down leaving some dead dwarves lying on furrowed soil. I tried building a long underground entrance, which works ok, mainly because other beseiging races normally flush them out before they get to my dwarves. I've tried flushing them out with my crapper axedwarves with mixed results: works ok for individual thieves but multiple ambush squads can sometime kill the axedwarves and rush to my entrance. I haven't tried marksdwarves.

It is dragon fire they spit, not the normal fireballs the jotunar throw around. It'll melt down anything baring walls, natural ground, and raised bridges, though even I'm not sure the last one can take a direct hit. I suggest you try flooding the outside with an above ground cistern to try and fight the fires that spring up, or you use a limited scorched earth policy and burn the grass beforehand so that the fires can't catch anything. As for marks dwarves, don't use them away from their fortifications if they don't have good shield skills and a buckler or shield equipped.

Quote
I haven't had any problems with Nightwings for a few forts. Generally you can deal with elite flying bowmen by killing enough of their accompanying squads, causing them to leave the board. I've found the worst thing to do here is use marksdwarves, they'll tend to shoot the squds while getting shot themselves and don't kill stuff fast enough. Melee squads get the job done usually.

I've had major problems with them, mainly because I've never experienced this retreat thing they exhibit in your game. They stay until the last on eats the vapors. And the fact that they don't bleed means half of the squad can be hacking away at a single dismembered nightwing while the rest of the squad is overpowered by the rest of the siege. Unless you cut them in half or remove the head, there is no other way to refocus the dwarves attention to the tones that really pose a threat.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v5x: Graphic Death and Gore! (Thanks kzel!)
Post by: Mechatronic on April 09, 2011, 08:40:35 pm
Ok, I've got an above ground lake on top a a layer of obsidian on top a volcano, I might rig that up to flood the map. Maybe the magma too...

I haven't faced that many elite bowmen Nightwings. One in a previous game was very nasty as it shot down a high master hunter that got caught outside hauling an elephant, then the two legendary marksdwarves behind fortifications. He did fly off the map though, the Nightwing squads got wiped out by my melee dwarves, they got distracted by ambushes and sieges as they were chasing him and he left. I've found Nightwings to be one of the tougher melee troops, but none of the melee troops worry me much on their own anymore. I lose a few dwarves here or there but I can handle that.

My marksdwarves in this game ran outside to collect stuff off a merchant's donkey that got killed, I guess not covered by forbidding death items. The only survivor lost a foot but became the first dwarf I've got to use a crutch. I might try to set some fortifications up along my entrance.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v5x: Graphic Death and Gore! (Thanks kzel!)
Post by: darkflagrance on April 16, 2011, 11:36:20 pm
I'm in the process of retesting my mod to see if it can be rebalanced. I just wanted to say one thing:

How the heck are spiders easy? Sure they can't break through steel armor quickly, but given enough of them, they prevent your troops from moving until they finish them off via poison or strangulation. My archers take too long to shoot them to death. If you get spiders with another siege, the spiders root your men in place while the other enemy force annihilates them.

Also, even if the leaders are bugged all over the place, the enemy elite warriors are not, so I think I can leave that problem until I figure out what causes it.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v5x: Graphic Death and Gore! (Thanks kzel!)
Post by: Ilikor on April 17, 2011, 03:14:25 pm
generals are bugged, I've had multiple come and they were all naked, but elite warrior are not bugged. I think nightwings might be a little on the hard side and may come a little bit too early. They come before goblins in most on my games.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v6: Easier Basic Mode, Harder Challenge Mode
Post by: darkflagrance on April 18, 2011, 03:27:11 am
Based on recent input I've received, I've put up v6 of Fortress Defense with Nightwings promoted to Challenge Mode; they are still available if you copy the entity_nightwingfd.txt and entity_fdchallenge.txt files into your raws folder. I'm testing this to see if people liked them enough in Basic to protest this change; if enough complaints arise, I will reverse the move.

In addition, I've decreased the amount of seasons in which enemies can attack; this is to foster trade and increase the flow of migrants to your fort who can be drafted into the military.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v6: Easier Basic Mode, Harder Challenge Mode
Post by: Kogut on April 18, 2011, 03:30:07 am
Harder CM? How?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v6: Easier Basic Mode, Harder Challenge Mode
Post by: darkflagrance on April 18, 2011, 03:32:24 am
Harder CM? How?

Nightwings now come in all seasons in Challenge Mode.

If you would like it to be even harder, I can arrange that.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v6: Easier Basic Mode, Harder Challenge Mode
Post by: darkflagrance on April 19, 2011, 11:48:28 pm
I've drafted up the creature and entity files for two new high-tier civs to be added to Fortress Defense to replace the promoted Nightwings: Pandashi and Brock, based off Pandamen and Badgermen respectively. They are designed to be approximate but different equals of the Dwarves, similar in size but wielding steel and well-versed in hand-to-hand combat.

As soon as I finish testing (who knows when though, too much work!), I'll add them to the mod in their own entity file.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v6: Easier Basic Mode, Harder Challenge Mode
Post by: Ilikor on April 20, 2011, 10:52:01 am
OMG OMG OMG, Badgerman equipped with steel, they come to finish the job after the giant badger !
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v6: Easier Basic Mode, Harder Challenge Mode
Post by: katana on April 20, 2011, 03:21:26 pm
Strange how I've not gotten any stranglers, 64 population, 324769 created wealth, there's a strangler civilization in legends mode, 3rd year.


Playing on a large map, how much longer should I expect to wait?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v6: Easier Basic Mode, Harder Challenge Mode
Post by: darkflagrance on April 20, 2011, 03:33:49 pm
Strange how I've not gotten any stranglers, 64 population, 324769 created wealth, there's a strangler civilization in legends mode, 3rd year.


Playing on a large map, how much longer should I expect to wait?

Have you fought anything else? Also, a strangler civ in legends mode doesn't mean that it has access to your civ. If you generated an island instead of a regional world, they could be on another continent.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v6: Easier Basic Mode, Harder Challenge Mo
Post by: katana on April 20, 2011, 03:36:45 pm
I've had snatchers and thieves, no ambushes either.

Ima check where all the civs are now.

EDIT: there are no islands, everyone has access to each other.

EDIT2: it seems to be working, just something with the stranglers, since white tigermen just sieged and killed a bunch of fresh recruits. Not that I'm complaining, those idiots weren't getting any training anyway.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v6: Easier Basic Mode, Harder Challenge Mode
Post by: darkflagrance on April 20, 2011, 06:41:59 pm
Do this:

Find

   [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POPULATION:1]
   [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PRODUCTION:0]
   [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE:0]

in the Strangler entry

change this to

   [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POPULATION:1]
   [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PRODUCTION:1]
   [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE:1]

This should guarantee they come.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v6: Easier Basic Mode, Harder Challenge Mode
Post by: eNDer on April 20, 2011, 08:52:23 pm
Is it normal to go 2 years without a single attack from one of the basic races? They were on my embark screen but strangely not in-game anymore when I press the 'C' screen
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v6: Easier Basic Mode, Harder Challenge Mode
Post by: darkflagrance on April 20, 2011, 10:04:04 pm
One civ doesn't attack until 20 dwarves or a decent amount of trade. The rest only attack at 50 dwarves or higher. If you're missing stranglers, the rest will come at 50 dwarves.

Dwarf Fortress doesn't have tags in place to allow them to come sooner than 20 dwarves. However, if you wish to take matters into your own hands, follow the advice in my previous post and set the progress trigger tags to 1 for the civs you wish to engage.

Although the game will list the civs that have access to a site on the embark screen, when you actually enter fortress mode and start digging the fort, the 'c'iv screen only displays the civs you've encountered. If enemy civs do have access, rest assured that they'll turn up before too long. Enemy civs also only come near the end of a season (another DF limitation, probably designed to troll people who used the seasonal autosave into losing a battle than having the autosave kick in before they could save scum).
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v6: Easier Basic Mode, Harder Challenge Mode
Post by: katana on April 21, 2011, 02:30:04 pm
Nothing like frogman bone bolts to train my marksdwarves =D

I wish you would have more races early game that were weaker, just in case the stranglers don't  come. My first siege was against tigerwomen. Maybe to the point where they're basically an organized pack of animals, like a land-based carp invasion or something.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v6: Easier Basic Mode, Harder Challenge Mode
Post by: darkflagrance on April 21, 2011, 03:02:35 pm
Nothing like frogman bone bolts to train my marksdwarves =D

I wish you would have more races early game that were weaker, just in case the stranglers don't  come. My first siege was against tigerwomen. Maybe to the point where they're basically an organized pack of animals, like a land-based carp invasion or something.

What about frogmen that only wielded copper spears and wore no armor? Still weak, and they provide a slight benefit in preparing for later invasions to make up for their slightly higher difficulty compared to Stranglers.

Now that I think about it though, I've always wanted to add Lizardmen to Fortress Defense. I think I'll do that...
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v6: Easier Basic Mode, Harder Challenge Mode
Post by: Kogut on April 22, 2011, 03:22:06 am
When I press "C" for Civilization, there's only one civilization there. The tab says:

This land has no important leaders

Is this significant?

That's significant, yes. It means that the civilization your dwarves are from was wiped out. In game terms, it means that you'll only get two waves of migrants, and then no more, ever - which may be a good thing, for your first fort, but it'll make it very hard to put together a military, so you should focus on building walls to keep yourself safe and traps to deal with the goblins without risking your precious dwarves. It might also mean that you won't get any dwarven caravans, which is not a good thing, or that you'll get dwarven caravans from a different dwarven civilization, which seems to mean that they'll come a little less frequently but otherwise isn't a big deal. You'll probably want to make a point of staying on the good side of the other civs' caravans, though.

So I am limited to 10 dwarves in digless fort wit FD? Ooops. 
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v6: Easier Basic Mode, Harder Challenge Mode
Post by: darkflagrance on April 22, 2011, 03:23:03 am
Mod kids to grow up in one year, littersize to 3, one-tile meeting zone, get breeding.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v6: Easier Basic Mode, Harder Challenge Mode
Post by: Kogut on April 22, 2011, 03:52:23 am
Good idea.
By the way, is it supposed to happen?: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=4552
(and now I have frozen f siege)
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v6: Easier Basic Mode, Harder Challenge Mode
Post by: Kogut on April 22, 2011, 04:02:40 am
so [BABY:1] to [BABY:0], [CHILD:12] to [CHILD:1]. But how can I change litter? [MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE] to [MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE] [SIZE:6]?
PS Thanks for help!
PPS: http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Creature_token is great!
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v6: Easier Basic Mode, Harder Challenge Mode
Post by: darkflagrance on April 23, 2011, 12:06:47 am
so [BABY:1] to [BABY:0], [CHILD:12] to [CHILD:1]. But how can I change litter? [MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE] to [MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE] [SIZE:6]?
PS Thanks for help!
PPS: http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Creature_token is great!

Delete MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE. add LITTER_SIZE:1:3 or something like that (copy from dogs or rabbit maybe?) Delete the BABY:X tag altogether.

But I'm sure you found the answer by now.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v6: Easier Basic Mode, Harder Challenge Mode
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on April 24, 2011, 10:28:47 am
Good idea.
By the way, is it supposed to happen?: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=4552
(and now I have frozen f siege)
That's a fairly normal bug. It may have something to do with their leader being caught in a cage trap.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v6: Easier Basic Mode, Harder Challenge Mode
Post by: Kogut on April 24, 2011, 10:36:38 am
Good idea.
By the way, is it supposed to happen?: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=4552
(and now I have frozen f siege)
That's a fairly normal bug. It may have something to do with their leader being caught in a cage trap.
I have exactly 1 trap in the map. It is a weapon trap. But sometimes there are standing near body of leader.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v6: Easier Basic Mode, Harder Challenge Mode
Post by: katana on April 26, 2011, 11:39:36 am
Jotunar (size: varies, maximum 9,000,000)

If you reach this point (which may be sooner than you think), it means that a race of giants once exiled to the barren wastelands of the world has come to initiate Ragnarok upon your fortress! They come in various shapes and sizes, and some even wield fire. Due to their sheer size (more than 100 times the size of a dwarf!),  It will take legendary warriors, strong defenses, and masterful weaponry (only blunt weapons can penetrate their armor!) to match these foes. But fear not! The enemies generated by Dwarf Fortress can possess neither great weapon skill nor arms. Weathering their storm is not impossible.

Why can only blunt weapons penetrate their armor? Or is this a flavor text type thing. I'd think a 5000+ strength dwarf with a masterwork adamantine short sword could probably do SOMETHING to them.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v6: Easier Basic Mode, Harder Challenge Mode
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on April 26, 2011, 01:06:43 pm
It's flavor and mostly true. Blunt weapons aren't called can-openers for nothing.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v6: Easier Basic Mode, Harder Challenge Mode
Post by: darkflagrance on April 27, 2011, 02:02:51 am
Good idea.
By the way, is it supposed to happen?: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=4552
(and now I have frozen f siege)

Strange; I've only had that happen to furies when I tested, presumably due to their flying ability. Another cause might be their leader dying by crossbow bolt or back stab. Either way, this is a commonly bug with Dwarf Fortress, not my mod, as far as I know.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v6: Easier Basic Mode, Harder Challenge Mode
Post by: Kogut on April 27, 2011, 03:46:55 am
Good idea.
By the way, is it supposed to happen?: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=4552
(and now I have frozen f siege)

Strange; I've only had that happen to furies when I tested, presumably due to their flying ability. Another cause might be their leader dying by crossbow bolt or back stab. Either way, this is a commonly bug with Dwarf Fortress, not my mod, as far as I know.
Leader was dropped from 10 z-levels via dodge trap. Frogthings are also affected (swimmer tag).
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v6: Easier Basic Mode, Harder Challenge Mode
Post by: darkflagrance on April 27, 2011, 10:05:48 am
Good idea.
By the way, is it supposed to happen?: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=4552
(and now I have frozen f siege)

Strange; I've only had that happen to furies when I tested, presumably due to their flying ability. Another cause might be their leader dying by crossbow bolt or back stab. Either way, this is a commonly bug with Dwarf Fortress, not my mod, as far as I know.
Leader was dropped from 10 z-levels via dodge trap. Frogthings are also affected (swimmer tag).

That makes sense as the kind of thing that would cripple the fragile pathfinding of enemy units. I've also forced path-finding freezing by continuous opening and closing of doors and bridges.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0.07 has been released! See the original post for the download links, or click here:

Basic Mode has one more civ that replaces the Nightwings, and three extra civs have been added to Challenge Mode.

Complete package: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3081 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3081)

Basic Mode only: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3197 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3197)
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: katana on April 27, 2011, 01:34:18 pm
One of my friends got attacked season 2 by beak wolves. I think this is a bug...
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: darkflagrance on April 27, 2011, 01:48:42 pm
One of my friends got attacked season 2 by beak wolves. I think this is a bug...

Maybe his civ started out at war with them, as opposed to neutral-hostile. If you start at war with a civ, they come immediately. If normal beak wolves are capable of season 2 invasion by default, however, I need to expand that functionality to Stranglers as well - would be working as intended (for future versions >:D)
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: darkflagrance on April 27, 2011, 09:46:44 pm
I've been considering balancing out the Challenge mode civs as well, and if anyone has any feedback to give, I'll give it a hearing.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: Ult1mara on April 28, 2011, 04:34:41 am
Hello Ult1mara here and I was interested in doing an LP/review of this mod. Is there a chance I could? If I could that would be great

Thanks Ult1mara
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: Kogut on April 28, 2011, 08:03:19 am
I've been considering balancing out the Challenge mode civs as well, and if anyone has any feedback to give, I'll give it a hearing.
So far FPS death/crash/lame fortress design killed my forts before challenge races.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: darkflagrance on April 28, 2011, 08:36:17 am
Hello Ult1mara here and I was interested in doing an LP/review of this mod. Is there a chance I could? If I could that would be great

Thanks Ult1mara

Feel free! That's no problem to me.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: Mechatronic on April 29, 2011, 11:17:51 am
Minotaurs need boosting in some way. Jotunar are about right. Spiders are really variable, either lame as kobolds or webbing up all your dudes for mass death. Nightwings are about right too.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: darkflagrance on April 29, 2011, 11:53:59 am
Minotaurs need boosting in some way. Jotunar are about right. Spiders are really variable, either lame as kobolds or webbing up all your dudes for mass death. Nightwings are about right too.

So would you say that Minotaurs are not as challenging as, say, Elephants?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: Kepplerr on April 29, 2011, 09:55:35 pm
I love my captive tigermen and women, they just sit there and spit tiger cubs out that I then use to keep my military from getting bored...

EDIT: Oh god... I've been using these tiger cubs in my arena to keep my military happy, then I would make bolts from their bones... And I JUST realized that they are tameable...

EDIT 2: Nevermind... He was all friendly and whatnot when I tamed and released him... Then my siege operator beat him to death...
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: Mechatronic on April 30, 2011, 04:12:50 am
Minotaurs need boosting in some way. Jotunar are about right. Spiders are really variable, either lame as kobolds or webbing up all your dudes for mass death. Nightwings are about right too.

So would you say that Minotaurs are not as challenging as, say, Elephants?
Not for me. I'd put them below Elephants and Imps, about on par with Warwolves I guess.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: noodle0117 on April 30, 2011, 09:49:57 am
Those furies move rather slow considering they have wings and can fly.
I could just literally send my squad of marksdwarves at them and they'd all be dropping dead before the first one manages to swing his sword.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 01, 2011, 07:30:36 am
Those furies move rather slow considering they have wings and can fly.
I could just literally send my squad of marksdwarves at them and they'd all be dropping dead before the first one manages to swing his sword.

They move at the same speed that harpies do, as far as I recall. Possibly in your game they tend to camp the edges, which is natural?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on May 01, 2011, 05:50:07 pm
My Furys camp when they enter the map. Is it intended?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 01, 2011, 06:21:01 pm
My Furys camp when they enter the map. Is it intended?

It's a side-effect of their having flight. There's no way to change that for flying enemies, as far as I can determine.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: EddyP on May 03, 2011, 03:07:25 am
My soldiers keep getting one-shotted by hellfire imps. They shoot their fire and a second late 'Urist McX' has bled to death. It's not showing up on the combat log, so is the attack actually blockable? And is it supposed to be one-shot-one-kill?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 03, 2011, 07:36:08 am
You need shields against their damaging breath attack. Their other fire attack does nothing but release pretty sparks.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: EddyP on May 03, 2011, 11:01:01 am
...Wretched motor nerves in the upper arm. Now that I think of it, it was the soldiers with one crippled arm who got killed.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: Ult1mara on May 03, 2011, 05:50:13 pm
Here is a link to my first Video to the LP I will be doing of this Mod

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsXJxi-54D8

And here is the link to the Playlist ^_^

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=C7B945B98E097DDC

thanks again for letting me do this ^_^
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 03, 2011, 06:21:49 pm
...Wretched motor nerves in the upper arm. Now that I think of it, it was the soldiers with one crippled arm who got killed.

Back in 40d, when shields didn't work against their fireball attack, I used corners and fields of columns to decrease the range at which the imps could use their attacks. So even an army of shieldless dwarves could decrease casualties with those strategies.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: katana on May 07, 2011, 04:07:58 am
Every world I've generated, beak wolves came first. I think they're way too powerful, I've had dwarves in full iron (not very skilled, but still) die easily to them.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: EddyP on May 08, 2011, 06:24:27 am
You might need to take mounts off fire imps. When they use their flame attacks, they hurt their own mounts too, and then they all retreat.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: VonCede on May 09, 2011, 06:24:31 am
Is it normal to wait more than 3 years before first invasion?

I copied all 6 required files to raw/objects-folder, generated a new world and started playing. It's now mid of the 3rd spring and all I have this far is 73 dwarfs, all the merchants paying visits, one goblin thief (now headless) and first Forgotten Beast.

Sites_And_Pops says there are all those fancy new races living around, but none of them doesn't seem to like to come to visit.


Nevermind, found my mistake.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 09, 2011, 08:53:46 am
Interesting. I've been working on other, unfortunately pressing things, but I'll look at beakwolves. Should be a simple fix. For now, just reduce the max size of beak wolves to 80,000. Right now they're only killing dwarves by latching on and shaking them around; I think that's fair play for unarmed creatures that have to wrestle your dwarves to death.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7a: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 09, 2011, 07:38:11 pm
Slight tweak version:

-Buffed Minotaurossi a little.
-Halved the max size of Beak Wolves (they only beat full iron armor via wrestling your arm out of its socket now)
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7a: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: kerlc on May 16, 2011, 06:41:39 am
man, this mod is really evil on the challenging setting.

is it possible to be used with other mods, lets say... Corrosion?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7a: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: Korva on May 16, 2011, 09:33:34 am
I'm finally going to add some of these to my game, too, for more action. I don't want it to be all about fighting so I thought I'd go for stranglers, blendecs and warwolves as a nice mix of difficulty levels. Maybe minotaurossi too if I feel brave -- or bored. ;) Those who play with the full or almost full mod: do you get any caravans or is it pretty much combat around the clock, the whole year?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7a: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: Mechatronic on May 16, 2011, 10:24:18 am
It's not combat around the clock. Invaders arrive in the last month of every season and you can get rid of them all within a month with decent defences. The problem is that caravans often arrive in the last month, or not at all, so you can go years without any trade.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7a: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 16, 2011, 12:14:21 pm
man, this mod is really evil on the challenging setting.

is it possible to be used with other mods, lets say... Corrosion?

As long as the mods you wish to combine with Fortress Defense also include the default weapons, armor, languages, minerals, materials, etc there shouldn't be a problem.

For the Corrosion mod, you'll need to import the vanilla item_armor, language_DWARF/ELF/GOBLIN, item_weapon, item_trapcomp, item_toy, item_shoes, item_shield, item_pants, item_helm, item_gloves, and inorganic_metal - at least, this is what I can tell from preliminary examination of the Corrosion mod.

You'll then need to resolve these duplications somehow:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm finally going to add some of these to my game, too, for more action. I don't want it to be all about fighting so I thought I'd go for stranglers, blendecs and warwolves as a nice mix of difficulty levels. Maybe minotaurossi too if I feel brave -- or bored. ;) Those who play with the full or almost full mod: do you get any caravans or is it pretty much combat around the clock, the whole year?

Luckily, the Fortress Defense mod is tailored for easy customization of this kind :)

It's not combat around the clock. Invaders arrive in the last month of every season and you can get rid of them all within a month with decent defences. The problem is that caravans often arrive in the last month, or not at all, so you can go years without any trade.

There is only one late-game civ (War elephants) that attacks during the autumn in Basic, meaning that the dwarven caravan will make it through unless that civ or the goblins attacks. Furthermore, war elephants were not among the civs keric selected, so autumn trade-blocking should not be a problem. The readme has more information on civ active seasons.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7a: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: Korva on May 16, 2011, 12:50:06 pm
Yep I already tweaked the active seasons to my liking, with an emphasis on summer and winter activity. Now I just need to decide on a nice embark and see how it goes. ;)
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7a: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: ttscha on May 18, 2011, 11:30:42 pm
I dont know if i did anything wrong, but im in the end of the 2nd year and i havent had any sieges or ambushes, only a couple of golbin snatches and a minotour.

I copied the files the were in the main directory of the basic version (5 text files) to my raw\objects i saw the civs when i choose the site (didnt count if all of them were there)

any help i have 51 dwarfs as of now
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7a: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 19, 2011, 12:14:07 am
It's possible your world lacks Stranglers and Beak Wolves. However, you should be receiving attacks from the other civs soon.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7a: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: outofpractice on May 19, 2011, 04:53:06 pm
Did you gen a new world once you added fortress defence mod into the raws? If not you need to.
Also when picking a site, hit tab a couple of times to see what civs the site has access to. That will let you know what type of sieges etc you should expect.

Generally I've noticed you get around 1 - 1 1/2 years of peace, then all your friends start coming around, trying to drink your booze and eat your plump helmets.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7a: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: ttscha on May 19, 2011, 10:05:03 pm
hahah true it was just a matter of waiting!

I got attacked by 2 goblin ambushs and sieges both form W and tiger... best FUN i ever had on DF lost 10 dwarfs on the fight but so worth it =D

jsut a simple question with all those bodies outside and their drops is there a easier way to collect all that, than to only go in each one with K and set to clain every item, still learning ( steeep learning curve)

thanks you for the awesome mod
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7a: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: outofpractice on May 19, 2011, 10:58:51 pm
Other than mass claiming there is no way in game to manually collect them fast...

however there is now a wonderful DFHack called DFAutodump.

Use that. Designate everything to be dumped (d-b-d, then select the appropriate area covering the bodies). Then get to the 'view' mode (k) and place the X somewhere close where you want all the items / bodies / body parts dropped. Run DFAutodump. then reclaim all the items (d-b-c, over the now 1x1 square covering all the items).

Note that this will move bodies and all. So miasma etc becomes an issue and you have no way of viewing what is left in the pile that I've found. Dwarves will just keep taking stuff from the pile to appropriate stockpiles till there is nothing left to take.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7a: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 19, 2011, 11:11:22 pm
hahah true it was just a matter of waiting!

I got attacked by 2 goblin ambushs and sieges both form W and tiger... best FUN i ever had on DF lost 10 dwarfs on the fight but so worth it =D

jsut a simple question with all those bodies outside and their drops is there a easier way to collect all that, than to only go in each one with K and set to clain every item, still learning ( steeep learning curve)

thanks you for the awesome mod

Actually, if you go into your stocks menu, you can forbid/reclaim entire categories of items at once. Usually after a siege, you only need to find copper/iron/bronze breastplates and helmets in the stocks menu, then reclaim and melt them, then go to corpses and bodyparts, and reclaim or dump them as desired.

Goblins are a whole 'nother can of worms. I might release a file that kills all their useless, time-devouring clothing. I'm also considering deleting leather armor from furies in the next version of FDII.

Edit: I should say I use steel weapons so my fortress's equipment can usually be avoided when doing this kind of mass dump/melting. I haven't used the dump utility yet.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7a: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: foil on May 20, 2011, 10:33:19 am
Is creature_fortdefense.txt required to play vanilla Defence mod challenge?  The readme isnt too clear as it say copy it over for standard use but also if u want to use only a few civs copy it over too.  So which is correct to play the mod 100%?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7a: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: jaxy15 on May 20, 2011, 11:09:56 am
Why haven't I got any other attacks other than a white tigerman siege?
I'm eager to know.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7a: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: foil on May 20, 2011, 02:24:08 pm
Does the mod also increase the games load and lag usually?  Ive created 3 different small worlds and after saving/loading it takes over 10x longer to load the save back up, Even when the saves are not very big. Even loading up my pre mod land that are much much bigger only takes a few seconds, With DM it can take over 5 mins to load...

Im using Lazy noob pack with ironhand gfx and no other mods.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7a: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: Garbles on May 20, 2011, 02:34:37 pm
For maximum !!fun!!, combine this mod with the Monster Hunter Universe mod. Then you have the added suspense of never knowing when a fire-breathing monster or pack of velociraptors with lethal paralyzing venom will show up.

I combined both with the Genesis mod, and I got attacked by twin gravios (size 2,500,000, obsidian skin, steel bones, MAGMA laser) and a frost wyrm at the same time. It was only the summer of year 2. !!Fun!! was had.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7a: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: narhiril on May 20, 2011, 02:35:41 pm
man, this mod is really evil on the challenging setting.

is it possible to be used with other mods, lets say... Corrosion?

As the author of LFR, I can verify that it is fully compatible with that.  Note that since LFR adds even more hostile races, the amount of FUN may be hazardous to your health.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7a: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 20, 2011, 05:43:32 pm
Is creature_fortdefense.txt required to play vanilla Defence mod challenge?  The readme isnt too clear as it say copy it over for standard use but also if u want to use only a few civs copy it over too.  So which is correct to play the mod 100%?

You are correct. The creature_fortdefense.txt only tells the game that the creatures are in the game, but they are not spawned unless the corresponding entity files exist too.

Why haven't I got any other attacks other than a white tigerman siege?
I'm eager to know.

The mod slowly scales up attacks. Give your enemies time. Also, you probably spawned a world without the basic tier enemies, or one where they were isolated on another continent.

Does the mod also increase the games load and lag usually?  Ive created 3 different small worlds and after saving/loading it takes over 10x longer to load the save back up, Even when the saves are not very big. Even loading up my pre mod land that are much much bigger only takes a few seconds, With DM it can take over 5 mins to load...

Im using Lazy noob pack with ironhand gfx and no other mods.

I haven't noticed my versions of Fortress Defense to run or load significantly slower than my Vanilla test forts, but perhaps it's an issue with your particular computer's specs. You can see if the people at other mods that add many civs, like CivForge or Genesis, experience this issue for comparison.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7a: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: outofpractice on May 21, 2011, 12:49:36 am
In regards to DFAutodump, I think it was more to do with collecting / moving all the items. If its just claiming, then yes the stocks menu is quicker and easier. Autodump is just a conveniant way to move the sometimes hundreds of items to one location to allow for quicker claiming / melting / making idols out of Goblin heads.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7a: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: ttscha on May 21, 2011, 08:52:26 am
thnaks for the answers of the dumping and claming items. will try them today!
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7a: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: vorpal+5 on May 23, 2011, 04:56:25 am
How can I add graphics for the new races of the mod? I'm ASCII-impaired sorry, I can't enjoy DF with Ascii symbols.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7a: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 23, 2011, 12:07:09 pm
How can I add graphics for the new races of the mod? I'm ASCII-impaired sorry, I can't enjoy DF with Ascii symbols.

You'll probably need to hack together your own file or learn how to reference other graphics in the mods you're using; for example, steal beakdog sprites by copying the reference to their sprites into the entry for the beakwolf sprites. I'm extremely busy at the moment, so I'm holding off adding sprites until after graduation.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7a: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: ferok on May 23, 2011, 02:38:33 pm
Love this mod.  I had barely tasted combat in vanilla but it was all too infrequent.  Now my melee lasts only until the next siege (which is never very far away) and my entrance is coated with the blood of so many different enemies.  Beautiful.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7a: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: vorpal+5 on May 24, 2011, 12:57:19 am
How can I add graphics for the new races of the mod? I'm ASCII-impaired sorry, I can't enjoy DF with Ascii symbols.

You'll probably need to hack together your own file or learn how to reference other graphics in the mods you're using; for example, steal beakdog sprites by copying the reference to their sprites into the entry for the beakwolf sprites. I'm extremely busy at the moment, so I'm holding off adding sprites until after graduation.

No problem I can try... But I failed to see how the game makes the connection between that

   [CHILD:1][GENERAL_CHILD_NAME:beak dog pup:beak dog pups]
   [CREATURE_TILE:'B'][COLOR:4:0:0]

and a sprite slot in a particular graphic file ... I guess I have to head for the wiki to learn that  :P
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7a: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: outofpractice on May 24, 2011, 01:42:33 am
How do you actually get furies (the flying race) to actually come to your fort entrance etc? Every time they show up, they just stay where they spawned and dont move. If there is no way, is it possible to remove them from an active game or mod them so they aren't flying? Since I figure its the flying that is causing them not to path to my fort.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7a: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 24, 2011, 02:41:08 am
Love this mod.  I had barely tasted combat in vanilla but it was all too infrequent.  Now my melee lasts only until the next siege (which is never very far away) and my entrance is coated with the blood of so many different enemies.  Beautiful.

Thanks!

How can I add graphics for the new races of the mod? I'm ASCII-impaired sorry, I can't enjoy DF with Ascii symbols.

You'll probably need to hack together your own file or learn how to reference other graphics in the mods you're using; for example, steal beakdog sprites by copying the reference to their sprites into the entry for the beakwolf sprites. I'm extremely busy at the moment, so I'm holding off adding sprites until after graduation.

No problem I can try... But I failed to see how the game makes the connection between that

   [CHILD:1][GENERAL_CHILD_NAME:beak dog pup:beak dog pups]
   [CREATURE_TILE:'B'][COLOR:4:0:0]

and a sprite slot in a particular graphic file ... I guess I have to head for the wiki to learn that  :P

example image reference file:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Look in the graphics folder (which is mentioned in the graphics readme of the Fortress Defense Mod II graphics folder. Basically, you create a text file as reference for the game, specify the image file and size, and then the topleft point of the part of the image that you want to act as an image for. You probably want to get a tileset with beakdogs in it, create a new file, and then specify the beakdog image as the default image for beakwolves.

How do you actually get furies (the flying race) to actually come to your fort entrance etc? Every time they show up, they just stay where they spawned and dont move. If there is no way, is it possible to remove them from an active game or mod them so they aren't flying? Since I figure its the flying that is causing them not to path to my fort.

They are designed as campers. It's not a bug, it's a feature

To kill flying, go into the raw for your game, file the creatures_fd file that you installed from Fortress Defense, find the creature entry that begins with the header [CREATURE:FURY_FD] and then find the FLIER tag and delete it.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7a: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: Mechatronic on May 24, 2011, 03:54:54 am
With v7 I am getting this error repeatedly:

*** Error(s) found in the file "data/save/region3d/raw/objects/creature_fdbonus.txt"
RAPTOR_MAN_FD Color Mod Ending With (CRIMSON,1) Was Not Use


Also, does anyone know what causes this error?

Midmap effective coordinate check out of bounds

Searches show it seems to cause crashes. I've had three  With temperature turned off, invaders turned off and my pump stack switched off my FPS is 90-100. When this error starts it drops to 30-40 and the game often crashes.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7a: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 24, 2011, 09:38:38 am
With v7 I am getting this error repeatedly:

*** Error(s) found in the file "data/save/region3d/raw/objects/creature_fdbonus.txt"
RAPTOR_MAN_FD Color Mod Ending With (CRIMSON,1) Was Not Use


Also, does anyone know what causes this error?

Midmap effective coordinate check out of bounds

Searches show it seems to cause crashes. I've had three  With temperature turned off, invaders turned off and my pump stack switched off my FPS is 90-100. When this error starts it drops to 30-40 and the game often crashes.

A new bugfix release is up with the raptor color error fixed. Feel free to download it if you use the bonus civs in the Fortress Defense II Complete version as the bugfix version is fully compatible with worlds that use older versions of v7, but the bug has no effect on gameplay or game stability.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The second bug is a bug with Dwarf Fortress unrelated to Fortress Defense II. Here is a link to the bug on Mantis where you can see if Toady has fixed it:

http://mail.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=3005&history=1 (http://mail.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=3005&history=1)

This (http://mail.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=1680) link seems to hint that the bug might even be related to the particular computer you're using rather than DF.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7b: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: Mechatronic on May 24, 2011, 04:33:28 pm
Reading those error logs my guess the Midmap effective coordinate check out of bounds error actually occurred when I tried embarked on a weird melting glacier. I forgot about those crashes, and figured they were due to just an excess of fluid calculations.

Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7b: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: foil on May 25, 2011, 02:35:20 pm
whats the best settings for worldgen to get a good chance of the creatures turning up?  I have ran a few forts upto 40+ dwarfs and still havnt had an attack...

Would lazy noob pack or ironhand gfx stop DM from working?  Idk whats happening as i havnt had an attack since a few DF patches ago and i usually just use default worldgen settings that used to work to get sieges or etc etc.  I think all ive had in the last 7-10 forts is 1 snatcher turn up and thats it, used to be every fort almost until a few patches ago...
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7b: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 25, 2011, 04:30:16 pm
whats the best settings for worldgen to get a good chance of the creatures turning up?  I have ran a few forts upto 40+ dwarfs and still havnt had an attack...

Would lazy noob pack or ironhand gfx stop DM from working?  Idk whats happening as i havnt had an attack since a few DF patches ago and i usually just use default worldgen settings that used to work to get sieges or etc etc.  I think all ive had in the last 7-10 forts is 1 snatcher turn up and thats it, used to be every fort almost until a few patches ago...


You can check the availability of enemy civs from the embark screen by pressing tab until they pop up, so you should always do that.

I always use a medium region (not island!) to test the mod. Region-type maps usually allow all civs to reach each other; since there is no naval aspect to the game, there's no point in generating an island map anyway. I don't change any other settings.

If you generated a world where the two early 20-pop civs don't exist or have access to your fort, you usually have to wait until 50 population before the first civs start attacking you. This is by design, to prevent the player from being overwhelmed too early; but rest assured - if you didn't embark on a deserted island in the middle of nowhere, you should be swamped with the other foes on your continent by late-game.

Feel free to upload a save for me to look at; people seem to have to issue often and I want to see if I can spy a cause I haven't predicted.

I doubt that graphics are causing an issue, but it's possible that your init file has invaders turned off or something.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7b: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: Werdna on May 27, 2011, 02:58:19 pm
Having a great time with this mod.  A few questions:

1.  Furies and their 'camping' is getting annoying, mainly because my embark has a sheer cliff face that they tend to appear all scattered upon, and it isn't very entertaining trying to watch a battle that involves fliers on multiple z-levels versus dwarves on multiple z-levels.  And omg, the bolts lying all over the map afterwards.  Is there a way to turn Furies off (and only them) from invading, without regenning?  I had hoped they'd provide entertainment in the novelty of making a fort defense that stops flying invaders, but the camping thing just makes them more like annoying squatters you have to go kick off your land (not your fault, I know).

2.  Playing Normal, nobody shows up with much armor?  For instance, the first siege with War Elephants, they went directly from fearsome to outright adorable once I realized they were not equipped with steel as the README had mentioned, and instead were wearing mere leather caps (which I immediately imagined as fez's).  Everyone else shows up in a hodge-podge of copper/silver/iron.

As an aside, the race that gave me the most problems was the Beak Wolves.  They showed up very quickly, before anyone else, and well before I had gotten any metal armor churned out.  They did a real number on my leather-clad dwarves, I only had one survivor fir for military duty afterwards (the few others that did survive had lots of hands and feet ripped off).  Not the mod's fault though, mostly my rustiness with DF (thought leather was better than that) and the current map's lack of any iron at all. 

Fun stuff, its a good challenge.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7b: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: Korva on May 27, 2011, 04:56:16 pm
To "deactivate" a civilization in an ongoing game, open the entity file it is in (entity_fortdefense.txt or the individual entity file, whatever you're using), find the entity in question and replace the square brackets around its active season tags with quotation marks. So in this case:

Under [ENTITY:HARPYFD], edit [ACTIVE_SEASON:SPRING] to read "ACTIVE_SEASON:SPRING".
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7b: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 27, 2011, 10:10:08 pm
To "deactivate" a civilization in an ongoing game, open the entity file it is in (entity_fortdefense.txt or the individual entity file, whatever you're using), find the entity in question and replace the square brackets around its active season tags with quotation marks. So in this case:

Under [ENTITY:HARPYFD], edit [ACTIVE_SEASON:SPRING] to read "ACTIVE_SEASON:SPRING".

Yup! And no regen of the world is required. Progress triggers can also be changed or deleted in this way to the same effect.

Having a great time with this mod.  A few questions:

1.  Furies and their 'camping' is getting annoying, mainly because my embark has a sheer cliff face that they tend to appear all scattered upon, and it isn't very entertaining trying to watch a battle that involves fliers on multiple z-levels versus dwarves on multiple z-levels.  And omg, the bolts lying all over the map afterwards.  Is there a way to turn Furies off (and only them) from invading, without regenning?  I had hoped they'd provide entertainment in the novelty of making a fort defense that stops flying invaders, but the camping thing just makes them more like annoying squatters you have to go kick off your land (not your fault, I know).

2.  Playing Normal, nobody shows up with much armor?  For instance, the first siege with War Elephants, they went directly from fearsome to outright adorable once I realized they were not equipped with steel as the README had mentioned, and instead were wearing mere leather caps (which I immediately imagined as fez's).  Everyone else shows up in a hodge-podge of copper/silver/iron.

As an aside, the race that gave me the most problems was the Beak Wolves.  They showed up very quickly, before anyone else, and well before I had gotten any metal armor churned out.  They did a real number on my leather-clad dwarves, I only had one survivor fir for military duty afterwards (the few others that did survive had lots of hands and feet ripped off).  Not the mod's fault though, mostly my rustiness with DF (thought leather was better than that) and the current map's lack of any iron at all. 

Fun stuff, its a good challenge.

Thank you for the feedback! I'll take it into account for v8. I'd like to do more testing and create a more refined version, perhaps swap furies with one of the bonus civs, and then obviously see what's causing the problem with the elephants and beakdogs - but I've got one hundred pages to write in two weeks and the new version's coming out soon...

Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7b: New Challengers Appear!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 29, 2011, 09:37:50 pm
Nevermind, I should have fixed elephants for the next bugfix version. Fury revision will wait to see the new possibilities of the next df, but right now a major bug is fixed.

New version (0.07c) released!
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7c: More bugs fixed!
Post by: Shook on May 31, 2011, 07:12:24 pm
Oh man, excellent job on this mod! It made my game so much more Fun! Combat is likely the most exciting part of the game, and with this, i get like seasonal invasions of sizable forces. After 3 years, my fort population has stagnated around 50-60, due to the constant deaths caused by invaders and dorfen stupidity (hay guise let's go out and grab some socks while 32 polar bear-riding beak wolves are looking for a way in!). Finding a way to stave off the constant invasions is very fun indeed, especially when you do crazy contraptions along with a military. Crushing a large tigerman squad in a cave-in trap was particularly satisfying. :D
The one thing that iffs me a tiny bit is that beak wolves are rather dangerous for early fort invaders. That [NO_FEAR] token of theirs makes then incredibly tenacious in combat, which resulted in the death of my fully steel-clad swordmaster. Then again, DF isn't supposed to be an easy game (i think), and he was fighting a fair number of them in close quarters, so i guess it's fine. The biggest problems arised when they came riding polar bears (my brain temporarily shorted out from the sight of all those B's), which didn't happen before a couple of years passed.

So yeah, long story short, great job, will keep playing this. :) (my refuse piles have never been so filled!)
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7c: More bugs fixed!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 31, 2011, 07:19:58 pm
Removing NOFEAR looks like a good way to nerf Beakwolves for the next revision. When I have time...
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7c: More bugs fixed!
Post by: WagonWheel on May 31, 2011, 09:13:47 pm
Hey, really sorry if you already put my question in another spot, if you did, I didn't see it. I understand how to download and install it and everything but it should work fine with the lazy newb pack right?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7c: More bugs fixed!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 31, 2011, 09:19:22 pm
Hey, really sorry if you already put my question in another spot, if you did, I didn't see it. I understand how to download and install it and everything but it should work fine with the lazy newb pack right?

Yes.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7c: More bugs fixed!
Post by: RabidRabbit on June 02, 2011, 03:51:59 am
Seems like a fun mod so far, though the collapse of my first challenge mode fort was rather anticlimactic:

1st Winter - one Axedwarf in full steel kills 15 Stranglers.

2nd Spring - a full squad of Axedwarves in full steel rolls over 15 Frogmen (I dug down to magma by the first summer and had 10 sets of steel equipment ready and waiting by the time spring migrants came).

2nd Summer - two Goblin ambushes = easy mode.

2nd Winter - 15 Nightwings?!??!?! kill every dwarf I have in under a minute.  I had 20 barely trained axe/speardwarves in full steel by then, and I think they managed to hack a wing off one of them before getting obliterated.

Are challenge mode civs supposed to show up that early?  At 50ish dwarves, my fort didn't even qualify for sieges from tier 3 normal civs...

Guess I should either turn challenge civs off next time, or start abusing cave-ins and retractable spike training rooms again.  I want the fort to live long enough to fight some elephants, dammit.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7c: More bugs fixed!
Post by: darkflagrance on June 02, 2011, 09:03:58 am
Seems like a fun mod so far, though the collapse of my first challenge mode fort was rather anticlimactic:

1st Winter - one Axedwarf in full steel kills 15 Stranglers.

2nd Spring - a full squad of Axedwarves in full steel rolls over 15 Frogmen (I dug down to magma by the first summer and had 10 sets of steel equipment ready and waiting by the time spring migrants came).

2nd Summer - two Goblin ambushes = easy mode.

2nd Winter - 15 Nightwings?!??!?! kill every dwarf I have in under a minute.  I had 20 barely trained axe/speardwarves in full steel by then, and I think they managed to hack a wing off one of them before getting obliterated.

Are challenge mode civs supposed to show up that early?  At 50ish dwarves, my fort didn't even qualify for sieges from tier 3 normal civs...

Guess I should either turn challenge civs off next time, or start abusing cave-ins and retractable spike training rooms again.  I want the fort to live long enough to fight some elephants, dammit.

The problem is with DF triggers and randomness. Though Fortress Defense civs are scripted to come late, the procedurally generated nature of Dwarf Fortress means that things like wars, fortress proximity, population of the enemy civ, the volume of trade goods or steel you sell or produce all cause invaders to override the population limit and attack anyway. Furthermore, there is not way currently known to script invaders to obey only the population tag.

You can always turn off nightwings very easily; they are included in the Challenge Mod because they tend to be fortress breaking and can often provide an unexpected challenge. The mod is made to be tailored to its player's particular desires, which is why there are the civs are not only divided into three large files, but there are also individual ones for pick-and-choose installation.

Bear in mind too that that was your first FD fort; learning a new mod may take a couple of forts to master, as does the general game of Dwarf Fortress for many people.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7c: More bugs fixed!
Post by: MonkeyHead on June 04, 2011, 10:39:42 am
Posting to follow the thread as I have just started using this mod - vanilla has got a bit samey.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7c: More bugs fixed!
Post by: Brandedahall on June 06, 2011, 12:47:14 pm
Thank you for this amazing mod :) before i installed this, dwarf fortress was a little bit too easy for me.

now, it's quite hard and a lot of !!FUN!! :)

I'm using this in conjunction with LFR and monster hunter universe, and it's really great.

the only slightly bad thing is that the civs don't attack as regularly as I'd like, as i greatly enjoy the battles.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7c: More bugs fixed!
Post by: Werdna on June 08, 2011, 02:56:39 pm
I'd second the vote for NOFEAR removal from the Beak Wolves, at least from Normal mode, and instead perhaps move it to the Warwolves?  Beak Wolves are surprisingly deadly to early fort militias; I've seen them regularly latch on/rip off limbs off metal-armored dwarves, and marksdwarves often go through an entire early fort's worth of ammo and only knock off half of them.  I like the deadliness of them (as frogmen and stranglers are relatively safe to engage with early on) but it does get a bit exasperating to watch early marksdwarves use up 500 some odd bolts to kill half, and then have to send in newbie melee to 'clean up' at the risk of limbs.  They'd probably be a whole lot easier if I used traps, but I only build those from captured weapons and beak wolves are frequently my first siegers.

In general, the combo of NOFEAR and their armor-bypassing attacks make these guys markedly harder than the other early siegers.  Warwolves I've noticed tend to show up when I have adequate defenses and are routed easily when exposed to marksdwarves, so gaining the NOFEAR tag (plus their speed) may give them a bit more punch.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7c: More bugs fixed!
Post by: darkflagrance on June 08, 2011, 06:50:40 pm
Just finished everything for college.

I am putting together a new version as I type. Thinking of replacing furies with...Ferric Elves >:D
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7c: More bugs fixed!
Post by: Talanic on June 08, 2011, 09:57:57 pm
I was inspired by your Great Fiend Spiders to make the following for my Dwarven Hive mod:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Body parts:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I don't have an entity file for them because I haven't gotten one working for them yet... 8( they keep on failing to show up at the fort.  Testing to see if my current attempt works, but if you want to play around with these, well, considering that one of the castes is based on your GFS race, it'd only be fair.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7c: More bugs fixed!
Post by: celem on June 09, 2011, 02:49:06 am
Love this mod, excellent work darkflagrance

Just met fiend spiders for the first time outside my walls.  They are a whole lot scarier in the open than in trap corridors.

Re Furies being useless pathers.  This really does suck as furies...a summer foe, are often still blocking my dwarven caravan in autumn since i cant sally to beat the non-pathing furies do to other seiges in progress.  This isnt a mod problem but a bug with the way DF flier tag works in pathfinding.

I solved this temporarily by removing flier and giving them no pain, trap avoid in exchange so they didnt become too pansy.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v7c: More bugs fixed!
Post by: darkflagrance on June 09, 2011, 05:21:25 am
Oh, TRAPAVOID is a good idea for the fury replacements I'm working on! Maybe NOFEAR instead of NOPAIN though...

Update: Ferric Elves are completed. Now all I need to do is make graphics for beakwolves and ferric elves and test the new version. Should take up today....

p.s. furies are spring siegers, according to their tags.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: darkflagrance on June 09, 2011, 10:16:57 am
Posted v0.08. Gonna check back after a short nap.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: EveryZig on June 09, 2011, 05:47:43 pm
Does the current version use a tile-set, and if so, is there a way to choose not to use it? I find that I prefer using ASCII.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: darkflagrance on June 09, 2011, 05:58:43 pm
Does the current version use a tile-set, and if so, is there a way to choose not to use it? I find that I prefer using ASCII.

Tile set's optional, for those who want it. If you just drag and drop the text files and ignore the pngs in the folders there will be no graphics.

I personally play in ascii. I just wanted to try my hand at some graphics editing myself.

I was inspired by your Great Fiend Spiders to make the following for my Dwarven Hive mod:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Body parts:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I don't have an entity file for them because I haven't gotten one working for them yet... 8( they keep on failing to show up at the fort.  Testing to see if my current attempt works, but if you want to play around with these, well, considering that one of the castes is based on your GFS race, it'd only be fair.

I'm glad you were inspired by my work. I hope your testing goes well!
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: darkflagrance on June 11, 2011, 03:30:37 am
Minor bug: Elves aren't always hostile. The fixed version has been uploaded. You can replace the old raws with the new ones.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: celem on June 11, 2011, 06:07:54 am
Yeah I ultimately swapped the nopain for nofear on furies too.

And yeah they are spring seigers.  Just makes it even more clear that something is wrong if I cant get em off the field by autumn :P
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on June 17, 2011, 08:42:33 pm
Whoa. Elephants are scary. Thanks to them, this world is the first of mine to go from the Age of Myth to the Golden Age.
I bet that if I had a long enough history it would have been the Age of Elephants. AGH BOATMURDERED WITH STEEL ARMOR THE PAIN THE PAIN!!
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: katana on June 19, 2011, 04:36:38 am
I had a horse appear in a raptorman siege, with a name. Any explanation? He's not in legends, strangely.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on June 20, 2011, 09:44:10 pm
A WAR ELEPHANT JUST KICKED A DRAGON IN THE HEAD AND KILLED IT! AWESOME!
Suggestion: Allow war elephants to grasp with their trunks.
Also: Are the assorted civs fortress mode compatible (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87263.new#new)? In other words, if I add [CIV_CONTROLLABLE] to jotunns or war elephants or whatever, can I actually play them successfully with military and stuff?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: outofpractice on June 23, 2011, 08:20:30 am
Love the ferric elves.. and the fact that everyone else hates them.

Just wondering if anyone has come up with a reliable way to capture them yet. My current (very basic version) is the following

-------------------
#############
SSSSSSSSSSSSSS
#############
------------------
#= hatchs / S = Upright spear traps loaded with training spears.
Basically just a dodge'em trap that pits the elves down into the zlvl below where I 'pen' them. This is also the route  to my main invasion route. So an invasion comes then I flick a few bridges and then they have to path thru the ferric elves. Makes for much fun.
But I'm looking for a way to get them into cage traps or something similiar. yes I know I could mode out [trapavoid] but that takes the fun out of it.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: D_E on June 24, 2011, 12:26:35 am
I believe creatures loose the benefits of their TRAPAVOID tags when they fall unconscious, so if you can knock an elf out when he's standing over a cage trap, he will be captured.

Dig a few z-level deep pit, line the bottom of it with cage traps, and push the elves into the pit.  Any that loose consciousness after the fall will be captured in the traps.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: katana on June 24, 2011, 04:45:32 am
Or explode into gore, depending on how deep the pit is. Awesome anyway.

Giant fiend spiders could help you here, if you could trap them. You'll need a giant fiend spider webbed cage for that!
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: smokingwreckage on June 25, 2011, 02:25:08 am
OK, currently I'm using the Lazy Newb Pack with Mayday's tileset.

However I like the idea of more sieges - many more sieges. So if I add FD and drag the graphics across, too..... will everything work ok?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: darkflagrance on June 26, 2011, 03:11:16 am
OK, currently I'm using the Lazy Newb Pack with Mayday's tileset.

However I like the idea of more sieges - many more sieges. So if I add FD and drag the graphics across, too..... will everything work ok?

Just got back from a long hiatus.

Yes, the graphics packs should be compatible. If there are any problems, please tell me so that I can fix that for the next FDII version.

A WAR ELEPHANT JUST KICKED A DRAGON IN THE HEAD AND KILLED IT! AWESOME!
Suggestion: Allow war elephants to grasp with their trunks.
Also: Are the assorted civs fortress mode compatible (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=87263.new#new)? In other words, if I add [CIV_CONTROLLABLE] to jotunns or war elephants or whatever, can I actually play them successfully with military and stuff?

The civs with all the entity positions could theoretically be playable (Tigermen and Jotunns, along with many of the bonus civs) but most of the civs with VARIABLE entity positions will be screwed over. However, recently I also deleted most trap components in the interest of making the mod more compact, so that they can't access screw pumps.

No idea about the horse katana mentions.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: AUTOMATIC on June 29, 2011, 02:17:56 am
I remade some sprites for the graphical version of the mod:

(http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/9561/graphicsfdalternative.png)

Fetch them here if they're to your liking: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4584
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: darkflagrance on June 29, 2011, 08:15:04 pm
I remade some sprites for the graphical version of the mod:

(http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/9561/graphicsfdalternative.png)

Fetch them here if they're to your liking: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4584

This is very annoying. The elves worked during testing when they invaded me. I even have a screen shot from one of their invasions of my fortresses.

Do you have any idea what causes the bug?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: AUTOMATIC on June 30, 2011, 12:13:28 am
darkflagrance:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Should be 255,0,255

Better yet use proper PNG transparency. Or don't use it at all. Not like DF draws something behind sprites anyway.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: darkflagrance on June 30, 2011, 01:10:34 pm
As long as you can see the elf on the tile, it shouldn't be a problem. I'm hoping to upload an updated version soon.

I hope you won't mind if I also link to your graphics set in the OP; let me know if it is a problem.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on June 30, 2011, 03:11:07 pm
I had a horse appear in a raptorman siege, with a name. Any explanation? He's not in legends, strangely.
New feature. Mounts now have names.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: Mikehpoo on June 30, 2011, 05:32:37 pm
At around what wealth do the different types of siegers attack at? In my 2nd year with around 50000~ wealth/43 Dwarves and I haven't seen an enemy, getting a little worried that they won't show which would kill me since this fort has everything I wanted on a small embark.

Should enemy civilisations besides the standard goblin/dwarf/elven/human appear on the list when I press 'c'? Come to think of it I don't recall if I made sure they were in reach of me on embark...

Sorry for the newbie questions, haven't played since the 40d days.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: AcESCAR on June 30, 2011, 09:50:29 pm
This mod is insanely fun ! I never get so many multiple sieges at once before !

Btw, do Elephants really break down wall ?? I face them quite a few time but never once I see them even try to break it down
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: AUTOMATIC on June 30, 2011, 11:05:50 pm
AcESCAR: No they never did do for me either, and they had all opportunities in the world because I was blocking/rerouting their paths constantly with lots of bridges.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Mikehpoo: They sieged me pretty early, after second migration wave. I had lots of wealth though, making some spiked steel balls for trade and all that.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: darkflagrance on July 01, 2011, 04:59:39 am
At around what wealth do the different types of siegers attack at? In my 2nd year with around 50000~ wealth/43 Dwarves and I haven't seen an enemy, getting a little worried that they won't show which would kill me since this fort has everything I wanted on a small embark.

Should enemy civilisations besides the standard goblin/dwarf/elven/human appear on the list when I press 'c'? Come to think of it I don't recall if I made sure they were in reach of me on embark...

Sorry for the newbie questions, haven't played since the 40d days.

50,000 is quite on the low side. You probably should have attracted the attention of stranglers or beak wolves by now, but it's also possible they are en route and you've just received a couple of large migrant waves in a row. Try boosting your wealth to a large amount.

Enemy civs don't appear on the civ screen till you see a member of their civ on your map. So the only way you'll know if enemy civs are present is if you meet them or if you made sure they had access in the embark screen.

It is also possible that you started on an island or in a place where enemy civs can't find you. That would suck. You can check this by making a copy of the fort, abandoning, and then checking enemy civ availability on a site near the embark.

Elephants don't break down walls. Nothing in DF can at the moment.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: Brandedahall on July 01, 2011, 01:19:17 pm
yo, I've reverted back to fort defense (original) again and was wondering. Is there any graphics for them?
or is there any way to add graphics to the creatures?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: darkflagrance on July 02, 2011, 01:06:08 am
yo, I've reverted back to fort defense (original) again and was wondering. Is there any graphics for them?
or is there any way to add graphics to the creatures?

The graphics pack for the current fortress defense might add graphics for a few of the original fortress defense enemies, but some of them will lack graphics completely. Either way, I don't plan to support the original fortress defense at the moment.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: AcESCAR on July 02, 2011, 08:29:28 am
Is it all right to delete the weaker enemies and add in the stronger one (from the bonus pack)
without doing another world gen and/or another fortress ?

Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: darkflagrance on July 02, 2011, 03:38:43 pm
Is it all right to delete the weaker enemies and add in the stronger one (from the bonus pack)
without doing another world gen and/or another fortress ?

You need a world gen to add new creatures and civs.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: Brandedahall on July 03, 2011, 01:44:23 pm
aww ok :) do you have any stronger civs planned? or any that breed REALLY fast?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: katana on July 03, 2011, 01:51:56 pm
Random idea: gem men siegers that drop gems! Train the jewelers and soldiers at the same time!
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: Crashmaster on July 03, 2011, 04:25:53 pm
Is there a minimum population to get the tier 4 civs in basic mode? I'm at 10mil fortress wealth but capped to 120 pop and haven't yet seen them. They were shown as neighboring in the embark screen.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: darkflagrance on July 03, 2011, 04:48:53 pm
Is there a minimum population to get the tier 4 civs in basic mode? I'm at 10mil fortress wealth but capped to 120 pop and haven't yet seen them. They were shown as neighboring in the embark screen.

The minimum population for the last tier is 140, although in theory enough trading should cause them to come.

aww ok :) do you have any stronger civs planned? or any that breed REALLY fast?

You can take a look at the challenge mode civs, and add more of the bonus civs if you want more enemies. However, bear in mind that the limit for a single siege is about eighty civ members, a similar number of mounts, and possibly a couple of 16-man auxiliary beast squads, no matter how populous the source civ.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: Brandedahall on July 03, 2011, 06:48:43 pm
is that 80 civ members for each civilization; as in 80 strangers and 80 thunder giants? or just 80 overall?

and I've added the bonus and challenge, they are great, i find thunder giants to be the best though (never faced fiend spiders though)
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: darkflagrance on July 04, 2011, 02:19:15 am
is that 80 civ members for each civilization; as in 80 strangers and 80 thunder giants? or just 80 overall?

and I've added the bonus and challenge, they are great, i find thunder giants to be the best though (never faced fiend spiders though)

80 per. That's how, by cunning duplication of the elven civ, I ended up with 500 elves and their allies attacking me at once.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: katana on July 04, 2011, 04:08:58 am
is that 80 civ members for each civilization; as in 80 strangers and 80 thunder giants? or just 80 overall?

and I've added the bonus and challenge, they are great, i find thunder giants to be the best though (never faced fiend spiders though)

80 per. That's how, by cunning duplication of the elven civ, I ended up with 500 elves and their allies attacking me at once.

Wait srsly, 500?

I'm getting this update.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: katana on July 04, 2011, 10:05:23 am
Really fwuffy silk? Really?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: Brandedahall on July 04, 2011, 11:02:36 am
dayum, can't wait till the later stages :) going to be mayhem. thankz :)
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: darkflagrance on July 04, 2011, 02:58:26 pm
is that 80 civ members for each civilization; as in 80 strangers and 80 thunder giants? or just 80 overall?

and I've added the bonus and challenge, they are great, i find thunder giants to be the best though (never faced fiend spiders though)

80 per. That's how, by cunning duplication of the elven civ, I ended up with 500 elves and their allies attacking me at once.

Wait srsly, 500?

I'm getting this update.

What I meant to say was that if you duplicate the ferric elf civ, this is indeed possible. I can release an edition of Fortress Defense like this, actually, it's pretty trivial.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: Crustypeanut on July 10, 2011, 10:43:26 pm
I was thinking, is it possible / plausable to make the various Beak Wolf enemies tameable if captured?  I just happened to have captured a half dozen and was thinking "Man.. these would make great guard dogs".  Rather than my usual butchering them for tasties. 

And if its not plausable to do so, how would I go about modding it into my own game? I'm guessing its some kind of [TAMEABLE] tag somewhere.. just not sure where.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: thatkid on July 10, 2011, 10:51:45 pm
I was thinking, is it possible / plausable to make the various Beak Wolf enemies tameable if captured?  I just happened to have captured a half dozen and was thinking "Man.. these would make great guard dogs".  Rather than my usual butchering them for tasties. 

And if its not plausable to do so, how would I go about modding it into my own game? I'm guessing its some kind of [TAMEABLE] tag somewhere.. just not sure where.
You'd add [PET] and [TRAINABLE] to their creature entry, but since they're invaders even after taming them they'll still be treated as hostile by your dwarves (though the UI will disagree) and so the military will kill them and civilians will run away.
On the plus side, it's a useful way to pacify prisoners.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: Crustypeanut on July 10, 2011, 11:42:50 pm
Darn.. here I was hoping to have my own war dog squad that wouldn't get ripped to part by stranglers.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: dwarfhoplite on July 20, 2011, 02:14:59 pm
Does this work good on phoebus tiles?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: darkflagrance on July 22, 2011, 05:04:38 pm
Does this work good on phoebus tiles?

They should be compatible, but I haven't run any tests, personally.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: katana on July 22, 2011, 09:24:07 pm
One or two civs that are just huge numbers of (intelligent) small creatures would be cool, especially if small (but still dangerous) enough to be sent flying.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: darkflagrance on July 27, 2011, 07:32:12 pm
One or two civs that are just huge numbers of (intelligent) small creatures would be cool, especially if small (but still dangerous) enough to be sent flying.

Planning to release the prototype of such a mod soon.

Need to work on syndromes so that creatures can be small but still deadly.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: jaxy15 on July 30, 2011, 12:56:38 pm
You should have carpmen and war elephantmen as tier 5 attackers.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: TerryDactyl on August 01, 2011, 09:08:51 pm
I have noticed some peculiar behaviour on the the part of White Tigermen (et. al?): They're timid. There's two xbow traps in my entrance. They cause a few injuries, mostly to mounts and pull the entire siege to a standstill. My enemies don't take another step towards my fortress interior, preferring to just stand there with their feet in the door unless either lured by creatures or slaughtered by marksmen.

Is this... normal?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: Neyvn on August 02, 2011, 12:53:49 am
Um... So Stranglers and Beak Wolf Hunters..... Are they spos to be that cowardly...
Opened my gates to bait them in, and the Stranglers approached, my archers fired on one maiming it and the rest turn tail and ran, the maimed one getting out of range. The BWHs didn't move an inch. I then told my Archers to approach on foot, they took aim, shot one and maimed it, it ran back to the pack out of range, moved the Archers forward, they let loose at the pack and they turn tail and ran aswell... They even had one mounted on a Giant War Eagle who's name was Stun... The archers ended up cleaning up 2 of the ones they maimed but they were never threatened by them...
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: darkflagrance on August 02, 2011, 03:49:05 am
I have noticed some peculiar behaviour on the the part of White Tigermen (et. al?): They're timid. There's two xbow traps in my entrance. They cause a few injuries, mostly to mounts and pull the entire siege to a standstill. My enemies don't take another step towards my fortress interior, preferring to just stand there with their feet in the door unless either lured by creatures or slaughtered by marksmen.

Is this... normal?

This is a normal bug/feature of Dwarf Fortress; goblins also exhibit this behavior. In Dwarf Fortress, normal soldiers only follow their squad leader or attack nearby enemies. As a result, when their squad leader dies, they tend to stand around doing nothing. Since the squad leader usually goes first, he gets killed by traps, and then the other soldiers nearby stop moving because they don't have anyone to follow.

Um... So Stranglers and Beak Wolf Hunters..... Are they spos to be that cowardly...
Opened my gates to bait them in, and the Stranglers approached, my archers fired on one maiming it and the rest turn tail and ran, the maimed one getting out of range. The BWHs didn't move an inch. I then told my Archers to approach on foot, they took aim, shot one and maimed it, it ran back to the pack out of range, moved the Archers forward, they let loose at the pack and they turn tail and ran aswell... They even had one mounted on a Giant War Eagle who's name was Stun... The archers ended up cleaning up 2 of the ones they maimed but they were never threatened by them...

Both Stranglers and Beakwolves have FLEEQUICK, which causes them to flee quickly when they are losing a battle. This is because they are early attackers; this works balancewise to make sure they don't pose too much of a challenge if the player can kill a couple, as well as flavorwise, because as wild animals, they are cautious and prefer not to fight prey that can defend itself.

As for why the beakwolves stopped moving, in Dwarf Fortress, when a siege is spawned, if there is no path from the siege squads to the nearest meeting zone or meeting hall, often the squad ai will break and the squads will not move from their starting spot. They may remain still if no meeting zone is presented as an available target, and I have even encountered situations when, after the gates were shut for a prolonged period, siegers failed to budge after a meeting zone target was made available.

In any case, unarmored, weaponless beasts are not really capable of posing a threat to armored, ranged dwarven warriors; nor are they intended to, that being the duty of later enemies.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: Mickey Blue on August 07, 2011, 11:42:26 am
Nightwings.. Wow.. A group of fourteen just killed my army of nearly fifty (armed with cobalt* and a mix of other weapons/armor and average training).

Just wow..

*Cobalt is a metal from Dig Deeper that is comparable with iron in terms of property but cannot be used to make steel.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: EddyP on August 07, 2011, 12:19:45 pm

Both Stranglers and Beakwolves have FLEEQUICK, which causes them to flee quickly when they are losing a battle. This is because they are early attackers; this works balancewise to make sure they don't pose too much of a challenge if the player can kill a couple, as well as flavorwise, because as wild animals, they are cautious and prefer not to fight prey that can defend itself.


I find the fact that stranglers flee quickly annoying, given that they're basically free experience (which is very valuable in this mod). I had always assumed that their purpose was to help train dwarves up for frogmen and tigermen.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: Mickey Blue on August 07, 2011, 12:22:36 pm
You can always trap them and kill them.  I sometimes allow them to get into my courtyard and then close the floodgates* locking them in while my dwarves finish them off.. Sort of a reversal of the normal use of my defenses to kill them all (particularly as early on you can butcher them for bones, leather, food, etc). 

*One of my general 'rules' is I don't 'wall myself in', the most I can do is use floodgates (which can be destroied by building destroyers and can also get 'stuck' on things above them and fail to raise).
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: EddyP on August 07, 2011, 12:58:27 pm
You can always trap them and kill them.  I sometimes allow them to get into my courtyard and then close the floodgates* locking them in while my dwarves finish them off.. Sort of a reversal of the normal use of my defenses to kill them all (particularly as early on you can butcher them for bones, leather, food, etc). 

*One of my general 'rules' is I don't 'wall myself in', the most I can do is use floodgates (which can be destroied by building destroyers and can also get 'stuck' on things above them and fail to raise).

Yeah, but it's not often I get stranglers by themselves. Right now they're outside with a group of frogmen, and I can't take on the one without taking on the other (and the frogmen squad utterly wipe out my 10-man militia even though they're fully clad in bronze. TBH Frogmen are my most feared enemy; send me nightwings anyday).
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: Mickey Blue on August 07, 2011, 11:14:31 pm
I haven't found frogmen to be too horrible though I go big on my military with at minimum half my dwarves involved in it, though I guess it all depends on when they attack.  I also use a floodgate system on a lever so I can open and close it to try to split the group.

As for nightwings.. I guess like anything else its all about 'when they come' in terms of how prepared you are, but I hit them with an army of nearly fifty dwarves clad in mostly cobalt (and iron like stone in dig deeper) and the fourteen of them destroyed me, I'm not even certain I killed any.  I've never had a battle go so poorly, even against titans and forgotten beasts.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: EddyP on August 08, 2011, 03:41:15 am
I haven't found frogmen to be too horrible though I go big on my military with at minimum half my dwarves involved in it, though I guess it all depends on when they attack.  I also use a floodgate system on a lever so I can open and close it to try to split the group.

As for nightwings.. I guess like anything else its all about 'when they come' in terms of how prepared you are, but I hit them with an army of nearly fifty dwarves clad in mostly cobalt (and iron like stone in dig deeper) and the fourteen of them destroyed me, I'm not even certain I killed any.  I've never had a battle go so poorly, even against titans and forgotten beasts.

20 good dwarves in steel/spoilermetal is enough for nightwings, I find.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: Falesh on August 08, 2011, 07:14:19 am
I just had a painful experience. At 36 dwarfs and 289k wealth Ferric Elves just sieged me and killed my budding army and my desperation miners. Are the various enemies supposed to be able to attack before your dwarf numbers are up or was this a fluke?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: darkflagrance on August 08, 2011, 03:10:17 pm
I just had a painful experience. At 36 dwarfs and 289k wealth Ferric Elves just sieged me and killed my budding army and my desperation miners. Are the various enemies supposed to be able to attack before your dwarf numbers are up or was this a fluke?

While population usually triggers invasions, if you build up an incredible amount of wealth/trade beforehand, you can cause enemies to attack you anyway. Unfortunately, enemies must always track population and at least one other variable (such as trade or wealth) as triggers for invasion, so this is effect is necessary.

In the future, make sure that your production is contributing to your military instead of producing tons of clothing or food.

Nightwings.. Wow.. A group of fourteen just killed my army of nearly fifty (armed with cobalt* and a mix of other weapons/armor and average training).

Just wow..

*Cobalt is a metal from Dig Deeper that is comparable with iron in terms of property but cannot be used to make steel.

That's why they're in the challenge mod :P You don't HAVE to play the Challenge version you know, that's why there are two packaged versions ;)
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: Falesh on August 08, 2011, 03:39:10 pm
Is 289k a lot of money then for that stage of the game? The only thing I made other then beds and cabinates and some sets of armour/weapons was an artifact millstone. :P
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: darkflagrance on August 08, 2011, 06:37:47 pm
Is 289k a lot of money then for that stage of the game? The only thing I made other then beds and cabinates and some sets of armour/weapons was an artifact millstone. :P

I don't think the game tracks wealth over time; rather, it sends opponents at you when you reach a certain level of wealth. Probably 250,000 or so (the exact demarcations that the progress triggers for entities correspond to are still a matter of speculation among modders) is enough for Ferric elves to consider worthy targets.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: Falesh on August 09, 2011, 05:18:05 am
That's good to know. I think my problem might have been making steel equipment in that case as it is worth so much more then iron. This time round I'll go iron and more military more quickly.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: sir_laser on August 11, 2011, 11:14:56 am
Has anyone seen multiple age changes when generating worlds size 127x127 or larger? I'm currently generating one right now and it's in the THIRD Age of Myth.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: darkflagrance on August 11, 2011, 03:50:10 pm
I regularly see the above in my own world gens. It's probably caused by shifts in the balance of deaths of megabeasts and deaths of civilization members.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: ioi101 on August 16, 2011, 12:39:17 pm
I've been playing with some other mods (legends of forlorn realms/corrosion), and I'm wondering, is it possible to combine this mod with other mods such as LOFR or the genesis mod without too much effort? I basically want to combine the extra challenge of this mod with the extra castes/items/materials/stuff of those mods.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: narhiril on August 16, 2011, 01:02:18 pm
I've been playing with some other mods (legends of forlorn realms/corrosion), and I'm wondering, is it possible to combine this mod with other mods such as LOFR or the genesis mod without too much effort? I basically want to combine the extra challenge of this mod with the extra castes/items/materials/stuff of those mods.

LFR does not conflict with Fortress Defense.  The only stock files that LFR touches are entity_default, creature_standard, and item_weapon, none of which are modified by Fortress Defense.  Be warned, though, that having that many hostile races is likely going to erase your fortress rather quickly, since there isn't any reliable way to force them to fight with each other right now.  You might want to pick and choose what entities you want to include.

Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: darkflagrance on August 16, 2011, 04:18:51 pm
I've been playing with some other mods (legends of forlorn realms/corrosion), and I'm wondering, is it possible to combine this mod with other mods such as LOFR or the genesis mod without too much effort? I basically want to combine the extra challenge of this mod with the extra castes/items/materials/stuff of those mods.
LFR does not conflict with Fortress Defense.  The only stock files that LFR touches are entity_default, creature_standard, and item_weapon, none of which are modified by Fortress Defense.  Be warned, though, that having that many hostile races is likely going to erase your fortress rather quickly, since there isn't any reliable way to force them to fight with each other right now.  You might want to pick and choose what entities you want to include.

And since I've split up the civilizations into their own files, it should be simple to pick and choose which to add.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: ioi101 on August 16, 2011, 08:23:11 pm
So I should be able to just add the fortress defence files on top of a LOFR game. thanks guys.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: Jemeni on August 21, 2011, 01:04:13 pm
Hey umm Dark Stranglers aren't aquatic right? Becuase they started to siege me and then the river thawed and now almost all of them are chillin in the river...it has been like that for a while now honestly. I don't see any drowning tags or anything.

Edit: nevermind as soon as I unpaused the game(like 2 sec) another group arrived and the first group fled somehow (I don't know how they got out of the river) there were no ramps or anything.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: darkflagrance on August 21, 2011, 06:02:32 pm
Hey umm Dark Stranglers aren't aquatic right? Becuase they started to siege me and then the river thawed and now almost all of them are chillin in the river...it has been like that for a while now honestly. I don't see any drowning tags or anything.

Edit: nevermind as soon as I unpaused the game(like 2 sec) another group arrived and the first group fled somehow (I don't know how they got out of the river) there were no ramps or anything.

While they are not aquatic per se, they can swim.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: Jemeni on August 21, 2011, 10:30:37 pm
I might just not know the game well enough.

So only your dwarves can drown or something?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: Kipi on August 22, 2011, 06:29:54 am
Only aquatic, megabeasts and demons will survive without drowning. That means any goblin, dwarf or any other creature designated to live on dry land is going to drown.

The fun thing is that if sieger is riding with aquatic creature the mount WILL swim to get past river/lake, thus causing the rider to drown.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: Jemeni on August 22, 2011, 03:48:55 pm
Only aquatic, megabeasts and demons will survive without drowning. That means any goblin, dwarf or any other creature designated to live on dry land is going to drown.

Ok with that in mind, Dark Stalkers were surviving in a river and not drowning...
I looked in the raws and I didn't see the aquatic tag(unless I'm looking at the wrong creature STRANGLERFD in Entity_FortDefense)
I'm guessing that there is a bug on my end or something
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: darkflagrance on August 23, 2011, 11:57:20 am
Only aquatic, megabeasts and demons will survive without drowning. That means any goblin, dwarf or any other creature designated to live on dry land is going to drown.

Ok with that in mind, Dark Stalkers were surviving in a river and not drowning...
I looked in the raws and I didn't see the aquatic tag(unless I'm looking at the wrong creature STRANGLERFD in Entity_FortDefense)
I'm guessing that there is a bug on my end or something

This is no bug.

Dark Stranglers and most of the other FDII races have this tag:

   [SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]

This means they automatically know how to survive in water, unlike Dwarves or Goblins who have SWIMS_LEARNED, which causes them to drown if they can't learn swimming fast enough. Although SWIMS_INNATE races won't enter water on purpose like AMPHIBIOUS races, they still won't drown unless you put a roof over their heads and prevent them from having any access to air at all.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: Jemeni on August 23, 2011, 02:14:37 pm
Ohh ok well that explains a lot. Thanks for clearing that up.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: katana on August 28, 2011, 11:27:48 am
Nagas just fought off a panda ambush for me :D

Do certain enemies end up hating each other or is this a lucky rare world gen?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: darkflagrance on August 28, 2011, 01:23:55 pm
Nagas just fought off a panda ambush for me :D

Do certain enemies end up hating each other or is this a lucky rare world gen?

In my last two world gens tigermen and warwolves have been at war and massacred each other upon appearance.

However, I think warring between enemy nation is simply random. Take it as a bit of flavor or added challenge if you want; since you're using pandas, you're probably dealing with more enemy civs than average anyway; you should have no shortage of foes :P
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: katana on August 28, 2011, 02:23:02 pm
My only problem is the damn fiend spiders. At the moment I'm upgrading my military. At the time of this screenshot (well not the screenshot, I mean the battle that took place leading to this screenshot, this is a few months later), everyone had wooden weapons:
(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg687/scaled.php?server=687&filename=ardentdikesfinal5.png&res=medium)

I'm just thinking, how about a civ that uses tin weapons/armor? That way the slaughter of them combined with the armies of copper users can let us slowly upgrade to bronze through melting their equipment. I have ~80 copper bars but something like 30 bronze.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: darkflagrance on August 28, 2011, 02:37:02 pm
My only problem is the damn fiend spiders. At the moment I'm upgrading my military. At the time of this screenshot (well not the screenshot, I mean the battle that took place leading to this screenshot, this is a few months later), everyone had wooden weapons:
(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg687/scaled.php?server=687&filename=ardentdikesfinal5.png&res=medium)

I'm just thinking, how about a civ that uses tin weapons/armor? That way the slaughter of them combined with the armies of copper users can let us slowly upgrade to bronze through melting their equipment. I have ~80 copper bars but something like 30 bronze.

I could mod in a tin civ, but it would require the alteration of the material values of tin. However, it is an intriguing idea. Since I might have to alter materials anyway to achieve a race of small but deadly creatures, I might also do something like change frogman or tigerman weapons to tin.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: katana on August 28, 2011, 02:47:34 pm
Why not just make a reaction and give it to a civ that creates a tin set of armor or whatever? If they have the reaction, they can automatically use it, right?

Btw, another idea: more skilled creatures (preferably intelligent with names). Right now, in the mod, the creatures may be fierce and all, but in the end their skills suck compared to our 3-legendary dwarf armies or whatever. So why not have a small popcap civ with high natural skill on everything, or something like a castes system where some have level 30 dodging, others level 30 wrestling etc.? As a cool lategame thing, you actually fight legends, not endless hordes of pathetic recruits.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: darkflagrance on August 28, 2011, 02:55:44 pm
Why not just make a reaction and give it to a civ that creates a tin set of armor or whatever? If they have the reaction, they can automatically use it, right?

Btw, another idea: more skilled creatures (preferably intelligent with names). Right now, in the mod, the creatures may be fierce and all, but in the end their skills suck compared to our 3-legendary dwarf armies or whatever. So why not have a small popcap civ with high natural skill on everything, or something like a castes system where some have level 30 dodging, others level 30 wrestling etc.? As a cool lategame thing, you actually fight legends, not endless hordes of pathetic recruits.

I've been debating this idea myself. The problem is that enemy civs often come quickly even on the highest progress trigger settings, and there is no way to tell a civ to change the kind of recruits that it brings. Likewise, pop_cap doesn't affect what the civ sends to attack you in Fortress Mode because all the units are generated from scratch. However, since one can edit the dwarf fortress raws while a save is active, you yourself could add super-castes if you wish ;)

At the same time, I might add super-castes for the challenge mode civs. I will have time after my current programming project is finished. Another possibility would be offer alternate "upgrade" versions of each creature, so that after a certain point, the player would use the upgrade files to overwrite the raws in the save file and end up facing more powerful enemies.

Meanwhile, the intelligent tag doesn't actually add anything to a race except names. If all the fortress defense civs had it, they wouldn't be any more powerful, but would probably be at peace with the player instead. It's never done anything good for the quality of human, elven, or goblin enemies in my experience.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: katana on August 28, 2011, 02:59:20 pm
I just like having named enemies. It just doesn't feel as good to me looking through a kill list and seeing a nightwing the nightwing. Some things just deserved to be recognized more than just a <whatever> the <whatever>.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: EddyP on September 03, 2011, 02:52:08 pm
Lost another fort to frogmen - 1 squad of them versus 9 dwarves in full bronze in Spring of year 2. The only previous siege was a single squad of beakwolves in Autumn. I think there should be more of a distinction between tier 1 and tier 2 enemies - at most I get attacked once by tier 1 before tier 2 starts appearing (and quite often my first siege is a combination of both) and even with good equipment my military isn't strong enough to take on frogmen in the second spring. The only solution is to wall off or use loads of traps, which runs contrary to the spirit of the mod.

Possibly the frogmen are bugged though - even though I always use the version that gives them wooden weapons, I never see them with anything but copper.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: Blurk on September 04, 2011, 04:09:40 am
I could mod in a tin civ, but it would require the alteration of the material values of tin. However, it is an intriguing idea. Since I might have to alter materials anyway to achieve a race of small but deadly creatures, I might also do something like change frogman or tigerman weapons to tin.

couldnt you make it so that they are very resilient and drop tin ore on death?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 04, 2011, 07:39:52 pm
Dropping tin ore on death is possible.

I should have enough materials to make a full next version soon; perhaps even a Fortress Defense Mod III. I had planned to wait for the next DF version to incorporate new tags, and to finish my current programming projects, but perhaps I'll forgo those instead.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: EnigmaticHat on September 05, 2011, 02:00:03 pm
If you want small but deadly, helmet snakes or helmet snake men could work.  They'd be weak in terms of fighting ability, but a single bite from them could be lethal.  And entertaining.  (For us, not the dwarf)
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v8: Elven Avengers!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 06, 2011, 04:33:03 am
If you want small but deadly, helmet snakes or helmet snake men could work.  They'd be weak in terms of fighting ability, but a single bite from them could be lethal.  And entertaining.  (For us, not the dwarf)

In my tests, helmet snake venom has been kinda disappointing actually, but it probably adds up when dwarves are attacked en masse. Either way, I've decided to "augment" one of the existing Fortress Defense races with it...
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 06, 2011, 05:25:42 am
Version 9 has been released! (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3081)
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Blurk on September 08, 2011, 07:50:56 am
yay my suggestion was used :3
what are the odds of the casserite being dropped?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 08, 2011, 03:44:08 pm
yay my suggestion was used :3
what are the odds of the casserite being dropped?

Should be 50%.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Heorot on September 12, 2011, 12:31:20 pm
I just discovered this mod, and it looks like an awesome way to increase the !!FUN!! factor. Unfortunately, Dffd is down at the moment, and has been for a couple days. If someone/the awesome OP could mirror this on another file site, it would be incredible.

Thanks.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 12, 2011, 04:05:50 pm
I just discovered this mod, and it looks like an awesome way to increase the !!FUN!! factor. Unfortunately, Dffd is down at the moment, and has been for a couple days. If someone/the awesome OP could mirror this on another file site, it would be incredible.

Thanks.

Try this link for Fortress Defense II complete:

http://www.mediafire.com/?8yu3fxmyh58f8em (http://www.mediafire.com/?8yu3fxmyh58f8em)

Although I think DFFD is up now.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Heorot on September 12, 2011, 07:23:40 pm
Thanks!
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Qirex on September 25, 2011, 01:38:46 pm
Holy crap, stranglers are now [nofear].

I've already had a LOT of problems  with them in v8 due to their tendency to bring an equivalent number of war jaguars.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: superradish on October 05, 2011, 11:41:37 am
elephant people wielding halberds and 2 handed swords. the twisted, mutated descendents of those who besieged boatmurdered...makes more sense to me than tiger people riding grizzly bears anyway :p
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Lormax on October 05, 2011, 06:46:15 pm
Any reason why the Nightwing's will show up, take about 10-15 steps, then just stop there and congregate?  I can only get them to move again if I move a dwarf into their line of sight, but after they are finished with him, they move back.

Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: darkflagrance on October 05, 2011, 07:28:05 pm
Any reason why the Nightwing's will show up, take about 10-15 steps, then just stop there and congregate?  I can only get them to move again if I move a dwarf into their line of sight, but after they are finished with him, they move back.

Being twisted creatures of malevolence, they would rather place your fortress under a terror guard to seal it off from the world than risk the annihilation of their dark existences against the force of your defenses.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Kogut on October 12, 2011, 02:20:30 am
Is it possible to remove also clothes of dwarves, not only rubbish carried by invaders?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: darkflagrance on October 13, 2011, 09:39:46 pm
You can bring this about by going into the raws, opening the entity_default file and deleting everything unwanted that says ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_(insert clothing name here) under the MOUNTAIN entity.

Alternately, open the entity_default file, copy the stuff in the spoiler below, and then highlight everything in the entity_default file under ENTITY:MOUNTAIN up to "   For the LAND_HOLDER positions below (baron etc.) this sets up the different levels your fort needs to reach to attain them.  LAND_HOLDER_TRIGGER:<land holder number>:<population>:<wealth exported>:<created wealth>" and paste the stuff in the spoiler over it. Make sure you do this both in the game raws. It is recommended that you start new games to put these changes into effect.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: jesusmod on October 27, 2011, 07:31:16 pm
oh god. first autumn, nightwing raid. DAMN YOU ARMOK!!!!!!
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: sjaakwortel on November 01, 2011, 11:40:03 am
Does some1 have a nice embark for me (using this mod), i have a hard time genning a world that with iron and magma and flux.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Kogut on November 01, 2011, 04:11:30 pm
Does some1 have a nice embark for me (using this mod), i have a hard time genning a world that with iron and magma and flux.

World with short history, without caverns, magma 30 levels under surface, 40 levels of air, ores (including iron), flux, sand, olivine, rutile.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: OwlEpicurus on November 02, 2011, 10:38:02 pm
Really like the mod overall.  I downloaded it in an attempt to get more experience with using the military, and it worked!  In my last fortress my dwarves managed to fight off a Jotunar siege...which was then immediately followed by nightwings.

I'm now starting a new fort.  There is, however, one thing that I would like to change:  the creatures don't have names, so my militia's kills are registered as "a dark strangler the dark strangler" or something like that.  What tags would I need to add (or remove) to give them names?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: darkflagrance on November 03, 2011, 01:28:12 am
CAN_SPEAK is the tag you're looking for.

Unfortunately, due to Dwarf Fortress's procedural nature, that tag also controls whether or not they are automatically hostile. Adding it to enemy races makes them friendly. The only way to force them to attack the player is to take away their speech - the means of communication that forms the basis of inter-species peace.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Kogut on November 03, 2011, 06:03:54 am
Maybe adding snatcher tag or sth similar will fix it?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on November 03, 2011, 09:14:23 am
So beating something with a pointy stick is a viable alternative to speaking?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: OwlEpicurus on November 03, 2011, 04:51:17 pm
CAN_SPEAK is the tag you're looking for.

Unfortunately, due to Dwarf Fortress's procedural nature, that tag also controls whether or not they are automatically hostile. Adding it to enemy races makes them friendly. The only way to force them to attack the player is to take away their speech - the means of communication that forms the basis of inter-species peace.

Thanks.  I wasn't sure what tag determined naming.  I figured I can make them automatically hostile even when they have [CAN_SPEAK] by giving either them or the dwarves the [BABYSNATCHER] tag.  I tried the latter setup, gave the tag to humans and elves, too, and removed it from the other civs.  Of course, there are going to be some other interesting effects (for example, something kept stealing my livestock in my test fort).  However, all of the civs are still hostile, and the invaders are named. 

(As a side note - I gave the dwarves the tag because I wasn't sure how soon I'd start getting snatchers from the other races if I gave it to them.  Would they start arriving at the same time as the sieges, or would they behave more like goblins, showing up in about the second year?)
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: darkflagrance on November 04, 2011, 03:17:50 am
CAN_SPEAK is the tag you're looking for.

Unfortunately, due to Dwarf Fortress's procedural nature, that tag also controls whether or not they are automatically hostile. Adding it to enemy races makes them friendly. The only way to force them to attack the player is to take away their speech - the means of communication that forms the basis of inter-species peace.

Thanks.  I wasn't sure what tag determined naming.  I figured I can make them automatically hostile even when they have [CAN_SPEAK] by giving either them or the dwarves the [BABYSNATCHER] tag.  I tried the latter setup, gave the tag to humans and elves, too, and removed it from the other civs.  Of course, there are going to be some other interesting effects (for example, something kept stealing my livestock in my test fort).  However, all of the civs are still hostile, and the invaders are named. 

(As a side note - I gave the dwarves the tag because I wasn't sure how soon I'd start getting snatchers from the other races if I gave it to them.  Would they start arriving at the same time as the sieges, or would they behave more like goblins, showing up in about the second year?)

Races have two progess triggers, one unspecified and one with _SIEGE after it. I assume the first tag would determine baby-snatcher arrival, but I cannot confirm it without empirical tests.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: IamanElfCollaborator on November 04, 2011, 05:10:25 pm
On an unrelated note, tried this with my Final Fantasy mod. Hehe....there was !!FUN!! to be had when one of my megas met a sieging army of nightwings.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Kogut on November 07, 2011, 01:40:26 pm
Nightwings toppled my entire windmill farm from distance of 40 tiles. Is it expected effect?
It was invisible thief.

PS Windmill farm powered magma pumpstack designed to kill Nightwings.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Tapeworm on November 07, 2011, 07:38:21 pm
If I remember correctly, there's a way to have named creatures without using BABYSNATCHER or ITEM_THIEF. Simply add CAN_SPEAK after world generation, and any new creatures will spawn with names. You could also give them the [UTTERANCES] tag, which has the same effect.

EDIT: Only do this after you found your fortress, or otherwise they'll start off firendly.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Diamond on November 11, 2011, 05:19:05 pm
Nightwings toppled my entire windmill farm from distance of 40 tiles. Is it expected effect?
It was invisible thief.

PS Windmill farm powered magma pumpstack designed to kill Nightwings.
High-class sabotage right there.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Kogut on November 13, 2011, 11:16:09 am
Nightwings toppled my entire windmill farm from distance of 40 tiles. Is it expected effect?
It was invisible thief.

PS Windmill farm powered magma pumpstack designed to kill Nightwings.
High-class sabotage right there.
And Nightwings are magmaproof.  ???
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Kogut on November 14, 2011, 10:31:23 am
I added [CAN_SPEAK] (after worldgen):
(http://www.img.ie/images/300b9.png) (http://www.img.ie/)

EDIT: Caravan was empty, so I (o)ffered coffins.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: DrKillPatient on November 14, 2011, 07:27:06 pm
Just embarked in a taiga and I see a bunch of great fiend spider silk webs lying around. Should I be... worried?

EDIT: Also, how do you guys set up FD? With all the species generally, or by picking a few? I've got all the bonus/challenge/basic enemies in game and Dwarven civs don't always survive even in a short worldgen of 99 years.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Kogut on November 15, 2011, 01:06:19 am
I play with everything. As result I triggered worldgen crash caused by FB extinction :)
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Kogut on November 15, 2011, 02:13:27 am
I play with everything. As result I triggered worldgen crash caused by FB extinction :)

I found quote, apparently it was not limited to FB:

from bugreport #4358
Quote from: Toady One
It (worldgen) didn't like that all the trouble-causing monsters of every kind in the world were dead. Apparently the civs were very thorough.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: darkflagrance on November 15, 2011, 01:31:40 pm
Just embarked in a taiga and I see a bunch of great fiend spider silk webs lying around. Should I be... worried?

EDIT: Also, how do you guys set up FD? With all the species generally, or by picking a few? I've got all the bonus/challenge/basic enemies in game and Dwarven civs don't always survive even in a short worldgen of 99 years.

I play with everything. As result I triggered worldgen crash caused by FB extinction :)

I found quote, apparently it was not limited to FB:

from bugreport #4358
Quote from: Toady One
It (worldgen) didn't like that all the trouble-causing monsters of every kind in the world were dead. Apparently the civs were very thorough.

I personally don't let worldgen go beyond 40-50 years, even without Bonus  civs. Personally, I find the added gameplay additions worth the loss of the lore; besides, all worldgen does is kill off the interesting people and creatures before you, the player, get to exterminate them  :P
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Kogut on November 19, 2011, 11:36:37 am
I discovered that it is possible to generate word with hostile, named enemies.

1) remove [ITEM_THIEF] from entities (goblins, kobolds)
2) add [ITEM_THIEF] to your entity (dwarfs) and peaceful (humans, elves)
3) add [CAN_SPEAK] to DF creatures

As bonus: kobolds are hyperactive (10 ambushes, 3 killed soldiers, starting tantrum spiral) - what may or may not be related to removal of  [ITEM_THIEF] from their entity.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: darkflagrance on November 19, 2011, 04:01:02 pm
I discovered that it is possible to generate word with hostile, named enemies.

1) remove [ITEM_THIEF] from entities (goblins, kobolds)
2) add [ITEM_THIEF] to your entity (dwarfs) and peaceful (humans, elves)
3) add [CAN_SPEAK] to DF creatures

As bonus: kobolds are hyperactive (10 ambushes, 3 killed soldiers, starting tantrum spiral) - what may or may not be related to removal of  [ITEM_THIEF] from their entity.

This is likely related to the low default progress trigger set for kobolds. In normal games, the ITEM_THIEF tag prevents the kobolds from being too aggressive unless they steal tons of loot. Without that limitation, they are free to wreak havoc from the get go.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Putnam on November 19, 2011, 06:04:07 pm
I discovered that it is possible to generate word with hostile, named enemies.

1) remove [ITEM_THIEF] from entities (goblins, kobolds)
2) add [ITEM_THIEF] to your entity (dwarfs) and peaceful (humans, elves)
3) add [CAN_SPEAK] to DF creatures

As bonus: kobolds are hyperactive (10 ambushes, 3 killed soldiers, starting tantrum spiral) - what may or may not be related to removal of  [ITEM_THIEF] from their entity.

This is likely related to the low default progress trigger set for kobolds. In normal games, the ITEM_THIEF tag prevents the kobolds from being too aggressive unless they steal tons of loot. Without that limitation, they are free to wreak havoc from the get go.

I think that's the [SKULKING] tag...
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: darkflagrance on November 19, 2011, 06:16:55 pm
I discovered that it is possible to generate word with hostile, named enemies.

1) remove [ITEM_THIEF] from entities (goblins, kobolds)
2) add [ITEM_THIEF] to your entity (dwarfs) and peaceful (humans, elves)
3) add [CAN_SPEAK] to DF creatures

As bonus: kobolds are hyperactive (10 ambushes, 3 killed soldiers, starting tantrum spiral) - what may or may not be related to removal of  [ITEM_THIEF] from their entity.

This is likely related to the low default progress trigger set for kobolds. In normal games, the ITEM_THIEF tag prevents the kobolds from being too aggressive unless they steal tons of loot. Without that limitation, they are free to wreak havoc from the get go.

I think that's the [SKULKING] tag...

On the other hand, an entity that doesn't steal items can hardly fulfill the requirements of the SKULKING tag, can it? The game might then ignore the item theft requirements anyway. I might test this...
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: nil on November 21, 2011, 05:45:32 am
n/m
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: DrKillPatient on November 26, 2011, 11:59:52 pm
Are great fiend spiders supposed to leave webs all over the place? How can I stop them from appearing everywhere?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: darkflagrance on November 27, 2011, 08:07:15 pm
Are great fiend spiders supposed to leave webs all over the place? How can I stop them from appearing everywhere?

Are you talking about inside player fortresses after a siege? If so, that is intended behavior.

However, I suspect you are referring to the occasional Dwarf Fortress "feature" that fills biomes randomly with webs of random arachnid species. This can happen for other species of spiders; the underworld can be covered with Giant Cave Spider webs, and certain forests can be filled with Phantom Spider webs.

The only solution I know of is removing the WEBBER tag from the offending spiders. However, I suggest that you merely take the webs as a flavorful environmental feature and roll with them.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: ZZmage on December 05, 2011, 07:43:22 am
Oh man this was fun totally unprepared for the night wings sent someone out to attack that that had danger room training they killed him stormed the fort and killed every one. all because i didn't train anyone for ranged attacking. heheh
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: darkflagrance on December 05, 2011, 04:30:31 pm
Oh man this was fun totally unprepared for the night wings sent someone out to attack that that had danger room training they killed him stormed the fort and killed every one. all because i didn't train anyone for ranged attacking. heheh

Just as planned >: D
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: rephikul on December 16, 2011, 10:36:08 pm
Thief! Protect the hoard from skulking filth!

Hey frag I was sneaking around the perimeter of your thread and saw your ☼Mod☼ in an unprotected depot so I added it to mine. Thank you and see you next siege.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: shadenight123 on December 19, 2011, 06:11:38 am
have to ask:
is this compatible with genesis mod?
and with tilesets? (ironhand)
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: DrKillPatient on December 19, 2011, 08:53:23 pm
have to ask:
is this compatible with genesis mod?
and with tilesets? (ironhand)

All the entities in Fortress Defense have "FD" added somewhere in their title, so they should be unique as far as I know. Not sure about graphics set compatibility, I've never used a graphics set extensively before.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: darkflagrance on December 20, 2011, 12:10:49 am
The graphics sets refer to the _FD creatures, so I hope there will be no problems. I'm dealing with finals and term papers at the moment so I don't have the luxury of time to check.

Fortress Defense was designed to be compatible with other mods via the use of the unique tags as DrKillPatient specifies above. However, it also assumes that vanilla weapons, armor, and symbols are preserved. It is necessary for helmets, high boots, and so on to exist.

Thief! Protect the hoard from skulking filth!

Hey frag I was sneaking around the perimeter of your thread and saw your ☼Mod☼ in an unprotected depot so I added it to mine. Thank you and see you next siege.

No problem. You have my permission to combine the two mods as you wish, as long as you credit me ;)
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: NonconsensualSurgery on January 01, 2012, 09:02:55 pm
I was fiddling with the raws and noticed that there were no [  ] around BONECARN in the Kobold creature_standard.txt file. Is that a typo or does it relate to keeping them from starving to death during worldgen? You'd think something that's been gifted with [NO_EAT] couldn't starve.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: darkflagrance on January 01, 2012, 11:53:03 pm
I was fiddling with the raws and noticed that there were no [  ] around BONECARN in the Kobold creature_standard.txt file. Is that a typo or does it relate to keeping them from starving to death during worldgen? You'd think something that's been gifted with [NO_EAT] couldn't starve.

You'd also think that something that doesn't eat is unlikely to be a BONECARN  :P

I don't remember whether NO_EAT overwrites BONECARN when the game interprets the raws. Feel free to fix the square brackets and see for yourself. However, it's unlikely to mean much in the grand scheme of kobold existence or non-existence...unless there're other uses of BONECARN that I'm not familiar with.

When I'm not struggling over papers due in two days, and when there is a new version of Fortress Defense to make compatible with the new DF version, I'll reevaluate the dietary needs of kobolds  ;)
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Lordraymond on January 04, 2012, 09:16:34 pm
I'd like to say that I deeply enjoy this mod, first of all, and that I couldn't fathom going back to just vanilla goblins.

However, I have one issue. My troops are good enough to fight off pretty large invasions, but it seems like all the armies attack at the same general time. It basically goes like this:

"A vile force of darkness has arrived!"

Oh, uh, Beak Wolves? OK, set burrows, mobilize army, etc.

"A vile force of darkness has arrived!"

White Tigermen AND Beak Wolves? No probl-

"A vile force of darkness has arrived!"

HOLY ARMOK ARE THOSE WARWOLV-

"A vile force of darkness has arrived!"

"Your strength has been broken."

So, I don't know how you could fix that and it's probably been mentioned before. Maybe make them attack less frequently? Dealing with three squads of steel-armored elephants while dealing with four squads of copper-clad tigers and two squads of goblins while defending from another ambush? That's just unfair! Yet, strangely !!FUN!!
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Meph on January 04, 2012, 09:31:39 pm
You could add or remove just the entity-files you want. Just go to raw/objects and take out half of them, and you have half as many invasions.

@darkflagrance: I linked to your mod in the thread of mine, since they are fully compatible. Only 2 minor bugs showed up in the errorlog, and i fixed them. Just so you know :)
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on January 04, 2012, 09:34:54 pm
I enjoy the buildup of invaders, because now when I am super powerful. I can still get owned, in which I reclaim and try to pry it back and try again.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Meph on January 04, 2012, 09:42:30 pm
Hehe, my problem with so many invaders is not defeating them, but cleaning the stuff they leave, before the next siege hits... that was the main reason I started modding. My own little personal mod that removes clutter ;)
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: tahujdt on January 20, 2012, 11:07:57 am
Can I add this to an existing fortress?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Broseidon on January 20, 2012, 11:17:11 am
Can I add this to an existing fortress?

No you would have to create a whole new world.

Only reactions can be added without creating a new world if i remember correctly
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: tahujdt on January 20, 2012, 11:25:43 am
Aww, I've got an awesome but boring fortress.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: darkflagrance on January 21, 2012, 08:00:19 pm
Can I add this to an existing fortress?

While you can't add the Fortress Defense creatures to an existing fortress, you can still change the goblin raws by, say, replacing them with the raws for war elephants or nightwings. That might provide the challenge you desire.

Hehe, my problem with so many invaders is not defeating them, but cleaning the stuff they leave, before the next siege hits... that was the main reason I started modding. My own little personal mod that removes clutter ;)

I also hate the clutter that invaders leave. That's why there's a minimod included in Fortress Defense that removes the excess clothes from the default civs.

You could add or remove just the entity-files you want. Just go to raw/objects and take out half of them, and you have half as many invasions.

@darkflagrance: I linked to your mod in the thread of mine, since they are fully compatible. Only 2 minor bugs showed up in the errorlog, and i fixed them. Just so you know :)

I hope those bugs weren't in the Fortress Defense component ;) I myself haven't discovered any errors in the current build of Fortress Defense.

I'd like to say that I deeply enjoy this mod, first of all, and that I couldn't fathom going back to just vanilla goblins.

However, I have one issue. My troops are good enough to fight off pretty large invasions, but it seems like all the armies attack at the same general time. It basically goes like this:

"A vile force of darkness has arrived!"

Oh, uh, Beak Wolves? OK, set burrows, mobilize army, etc.

"A vile force of darkness has arrived!"

White Tigermen AND Beak Wolves? No probl-

"A vile force of darkness has arrived!"

HOLY ARMOK ARE THOSE WARWOLV-

"A vile force of darkness has arrived!"

"Your strength has been broken."

So, I don't know how you could fix that and it's probably been mentioned before. Maybe make them attack less frequently? Dealing with three squads of steel-armored elephants while dealing with four squads of copper-clad tigers and two squads of goblins while defending from another ambush? That's just unfair! Yet, strangely !!FUN!!

Don't forget that you can actually customize your experience while the game is in progress by changing or removing progress triggers. I prefer to release a version that by default is extremely challenging, because then the end-user can tweak it as he desires to make it easier, which is relatively easy to do by moving around files. Unfortunately, Dwarf Fortress doesn't really respect the progress triggers very well, but those are simply the limitations of the engine.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Meph on January 21, 2012, 08:04:45 pm
No no, the bugs where just messages in the errorlog about missing clothes.  My mod removes most clothing, and your invaders tried to wear something that does not exist anymore. Therefore I just removed the extra clothing, done.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Brotato on January 22, 2012, 02:59:43 pm
I just got sieged at 13 Dorfs; I thought that wasn't supposed to happen until 20?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: darkflagrance on January 22, 2012, 06:21:37 pm
If you produced a lot of wealth or traded a lot of materials, that can also trigger swift sieges. In addition, sometimes the dwarven civilization you select starts at war rather than merely hostile to an enemy civilization. You will know this because it shows a red "War" instead of a ------- when you check the enemies that have access to the site in the embark screen. Civilizations that start at war with your dwarven civilization can lay siege to you at any time.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Blah on January 27, 2012, 05:44:46 am
What weapons are most effective against the later opponents? Jotunars, war elephants, etc.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: darkflagrance on January 28, 2012, 06:42:47 am
What weapons are most effective against the later opponents? Jotunars, war elephants, etc.

Master warriors and fighters. Spears pierce through to their internal organs. Axes will sever limbs. Blunt weapons will penetrate the armor, but they might not be strong enough; I prefer blades and points. Crossbows are also good.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: rephikul on January 28, 2012, 09:25:27 am
dark, I have troubles with your white tigermen. Just to be sure you dont intend them to be destroyers of hope that can win a 1:4 odd with only a single loss right?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: darkflagrance on January 29, 2012, 03:19:31 am
When I tested White Tigermen, I didn't find them overpowered, although when playing Fortress Defense in general, you have to be willing to make use of a great deal of strategy and possibilities if you can't get enough high quality arms/armor/soldiers in time. I have no shame admitting that I am willing to use waves of green troops armed with crossbows and bone bolts to augment my early defenses.

Note: you should have ~50 dwarves by the time they come at progress trigger 2. That takes a while for me to reach, long enough to have prepared significant defenses. I'm not sure if you're getting a much higher rate of population growth or income increase than I do.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: rephikul on January 29, 2012, 04:03:14 am
When I tested White Tigermen, I didn't find them overpowered, although when playing Fortress Defense in general, you have to be willing to make use of a great deal of strategy and possibilities if you can't get enough high quality arms/armor/soldiers in time. I have no shame admitting that I am willing to use waves of green troops armed with crossbows and bone bolts to augment my early defenses.
Very well, I present you a challenge:
 + Use Intensifying Mod. See my sig for download links.
 + Survive the provided embark without reclaiming until year 3 or kill 10 tigermen using dwaves, whichever come later.
 + Enemies must have a path to your dwarves
 + No walk of doom. Maybe 2-3 tiles on your (non-raised) bridge but that's it.
 + Minimum traps. Each path has a handful at most. Weapon traps can only have one weapon. Trap kills, including cage's, do not count.
 + No weird exploits except extremely elaborate and stupid dwarven tricks. Use yonr common sense to judge.
 + You can only use up to 1274 embark points as in default embarks even though the world gen allow 10000. I typically use 1223 points cause it read 8777 remaining, btw.
Spoiler: World gen param (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: darkflagrance on January 29, 2012, 05:22:50 am
Never played with Intensifying Mod before, and so I'm not sure of what has been modified.

And are the results supposed to show something about tigermen? It seems to me that such a challenge is a more useful measure of a player's ability. If you feel that something is wrong with game balance with how Fortress Defense interacts with the Intensifying Mod, then it is at your discretion to modify either mod, so that you are satisfied with the way your game package is balanced.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: rephikul on January 29, 2012, 06:19:11 am
And are the results supposed to show something about tigermen?
I want to make sure that they are broken. Your verdict is the most reliable since you made them in the first place and know the concept more then anyone else.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: darkflagrance on January 29, 2012, 08:35:05 am
And are the results supposed to show something about tigermen?
I want to make sure that they are broken. Your verdict is the most reliable since you made them in the first place and know the concept more then anyone else.

When you made the initial complaint, I quickly ran a swift test using my normal embark conditions in vanilla+fortress defense.

Made slight use of a danger room = moderately proficient (none legendary, most with only good weapon and fighter skill) dwarves.
Made iron armor from brought hematite and wood.

Due to aquifer, I could only use the flux and iron I brought and was forced to rely on charcoal for fuel. I only managed to get out three steel battleaxes and some random pieces of armor. Most of the weapons and armor were iron instead to conserve metal.

I got hit by beak wolves and stranglers early, and drove them off with no losses. I fought an initial tigerman siege and lost one squad of three untrained recruits whom I ordered in by accident, but the four warriors with training took no losses from combat (the freaking commander dove into a pond to kill a tigerman and drowned, then started haunting the fort  ::) ).

The second tigerman siege hit with three squads at the same time as a bunch of furies. I killed all the furies with the loss of only my exposed cows and a wrestler who took a dive into an unramped pool (I can't wait till next DF version when all ponds will automatically have ramps  ::) ), then by accident two of my dagger dwarves peeled off to charge the entire tigerman siege and were massacred. I massed my remaining eleven dwarves (armed with whatever random weapons I pulled off the caravan) and backed them up with random conscripted civilians. The eleven axedwarves charged the enemy who were mounted on giant badgers and promptly scattered. Due to my careless planning, this unfortunately exposed all my civilian archers, who were trampled to death. However, two of my axedwarves returned and held the entrance, killing the four or so mounted tigermen hanging out there and scaring away anyone else who tried to penetrate. The rest of my soldiers pursued the tigerman troops, killing as many as possible. Often the tigermen would run away in clumps from a single dwarf, only to pounce on him in a mass when he was isolated. Nonetheless, I survived with only three deaths and broke the siege. Most of the deaths were due to stupidity and poor choice of battlefield. Assuming that you go all out to get metal, bringing iron to guarantee weapons, buying all steel stuff from caravans, digging to magma, and turning the weapons of your slain enemies into more armor for your forces with magma-powered melting and forging, you will only get stronger over time.

I don't consider them broken under these conditions in vanilla. However, it might be that you disagree with the tactics I prefer to use. If that is the case, feel free to change tigermen as you like. As I said above, if your mod substantially changes game difficulty or similar conditions and tigermen don't fit well into it, alter then as necessary.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: rephikul on January 29, 2012, 08:48:54 am
I use similar tactics but used bronze because it's much cheaper to bring 60+ unit of tin ore and copper is guaranteed on any maps. "danger room" is not possible in my mod tho. In my most successful fort, I managed to snipe the squad leader of the first siege quickly and dodged an entire siege. In the second siege, I have managed 10 novice sworddwarves with full bronze armor and steel short sword, 20 other recruits only with spear or hammer and a shield. Stationed on the 2nd floor are 10 markdwarves. ONE squad of tigermen with copper halberd and shield charged through the entrance and killed all of that.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Shintaro Fago on January 29, 2012, 08:50:02 am
How viable is all-crossbow and no traps strategy? I'm tempted to try this one out.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: rephikul on January 29, 2012, 08:55:55 am
in vanilla setting, crossbows triump everything including jotuns. due to the lack of armors on limbs.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: kerlc on January 29, 2012, 12:58:00 pm
is it just me, or is DFFD down?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: darkflagrance on January 29, 2012, 03:50:03 pm
is it just me, or is DFFD down?

Just uploaded something to it, so it should be up now.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Prologue on January 29, 2012, 05:51:54 pm
Been wondering this for a while now, how many of you guys use a danger room when playing this mod?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: NonconsensualSurgery on January 29, 2012, 09:19:45 pm
Been wondering this for a while now, how many of you guys use a danger room when playing this mod?

I tried it without danger rooms and all civilizations enabled. I only had one solid military victory in the history of the fort.

Things did not go well. The militia of Airletters had been crushed at every turn and I was down to two mostly able-bodied squads of ten that had only mediocre skills because no one lived long enough to hit legendary. They trained on captured invaders and even forgotten beasts but it just wasn't enough. They'd lose someone every battle and that dwarf would be replaced by someone with no combat skills.

I gave up on using melee for most engagements. I gave up on marksdwarves as the first line of defense because I couldn't make enough bolts to keep up and elite bowmen would slaughter them anyway. Everyone hid behind a reciprocating spike field, a drowning trap and what was supposed to be a steam generator. The steam generator was the undoing of Airletters. It was the end; Jotunar and blendecs were bumping into foolishly, desperately placed weapon traps around the steam vent and raining down into the guts of my engineering sector.

The Jotun and their kin lined up outside the last masterwork security door keeping them out of the engineering workshop/lever room and began breaking it down. On the other side, I assembled all surviving dogs in front of swordsdwarves in front of marksdwarves and waited.

The Jotun came through and turned the first wave of war dogs into chunky salsa, but while they were doing that the barely trained marksdwarves managed to chip enough bones that most of the Jotun fell over from pain. The swordsdwarves and even more dogs dogpiled them, slashing and biting repeatedly at their giant helmeted skulls without anyone being able to reach the brain (all the speardwarves were dead at this point in the short history of Airletters). The mayor, who had been conscripted on the basis of being one of the last able-bodied dwarves, managed to punch a blood cyclops in the head so hard its brain was torn and then began tantruming because his dog had just exploded right in front of him. Slowly, the giants and their blendec/beakwolf assistance was crumbling.

One of the Eldjotun ran through the melee and headed for the central stairwell. The marksdwarves, who only had a couple of bolts each when the Jotunar kicked down the door, began running out of ammo and trying to bite and bash the giant to death while all the dedicated melee was distracted - with success! Just imagine this huge giant being bitten to death by a swarm of tiny dwarves. With the last Jotun dead, satisfactory victory was declared. The only casualties were a couple of dogs, the mayor's sanity and a raw recruit who somehow had his arm ripped off by a beakwolf before he bit and stabbed it to death.

... then I tried to clear a couple of parboiled tigermen out of the steam generator drains. They fought like, well, scalded cornered cats. I thought I could take cats after having battled Jotunar and blendecs, but they turned more dogs into salsa and then took on my melee one at a time in the narrow corridors. One of my starting seven, the proficient biter and teacher I'd brought with me who had trained half the fortress in biting, was among the dead.

With almost every single dwarf in the fortress missing at least an arm, the militia deprived of its leader and the source of its incredible biting prowess, the plans for a steam generator unsalvageable and the tantruming mayor replaced by an annoying armless lye maker who demanded giant cave spider silk items when there hadn't been a trade caravan in five years, I decided to order one last glorious charge at the blendecs blocking the entrance and call it quits.

This mod is awesome. Impossibly hard, but awesome.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: darkflagrance on January 29, 2012, 11:47:02 pm
Vanilla training, relying on the default training sessions and barracks stuff, is unbearably slow compared to danger room. However, in a recent fort, I was able to get a pair of legendary swordmaster/elite axe dwarf, in addition to an army that could reliably butcher hellfire imps, goblins, tigermen and frogmen, by the third year.

Some caveats: the dwarves had student 3, which probably majorly boosted the rate of skill acquisition. However, I had easy access to steel, silver, and copper, and I could probably have held out for a quite a few more years, even against the most powerful enemies.

Plus, I'd rather have my fort eventually die to the toughest enemies than of fps anyway.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Meph on January 30, 2012, 12:04:24 am
I usually train on wildlife. As soon as one group of animals is eridaced, a new one appears. Trains a lot faster then barraks/demonstrations, and is not as cheaty as a danger room. slight injuries might occur though.

@darkflagrance: got your PM, thanks.

@rephikul: how did you disable danger rooms ? Removing training spears ?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Nan on January 30, 2012, 12:15:29 am
Been wondering this for a while now, how many of you guys use a danger room when playing this mod?

I don't use a danger room. I do however embark with 4 or 6 out of the starting seven as career military dwarves. Proficient Weapon User + Proficient teacher works well. I add skilled in combat immigrants to the melee squad, and nearly all other dwarves get armed with a crossbow but don't actually train except by shooting at wildlife.

Against weak sieges I just use the "big dwarf ball" approach to wipe the map clean.

When powerful sieges come, I station my marksdwarves on a de-ramped hill, or a tower - or in a pinch - even in a deramped hole (it works just as well as a hill), and station my melee underground, at the entrance. So the enemy soldiers who make it through the hail of crossbow bolts to the fortress entrance, get brutally slaughtered by the melee dwarves. And once the siege's strength is basically broken, I have my melee squads erupt up and execute all the wounded enemies - which massively saves on bolts.

Combined arms is almost essential for the toughest enemies. Marksdwarves are excellent against massed enemies, because they can also be massed very cheaply, but they have the disadvantages of running out of bolts, and being exceedingly fragile at melee range, it can also basically be summarized that marksdwarves are good at removing enemies from combat, but are bad at actually killing them - melee dwarves are necessary to execute enemies and provide a meat shield.

Melee dwarves are extremely expensive to train and equip to the point of being effective in combat (I can easily use 80% of my embark points on my military), but they have extremely good defensive abilities and excel at killing. The main disadvantage is they are extremely hard to replace and easily crippled by stronger enemies, this is why they should always be used with covering fire from marksdwarves.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: darkflagrance on January 30, 2012, 12:38:16 am
I also make extensive use of the combined arms doctrine. Although marksdwarves are at least half of a powerful military, in vanilla they are extremely easy to kit out: a good bowyer or weaponsmith can make high quality weapons out of any material not fit for melee combat, and bolts can be produced from readily available bone, while some of the best quality bolts are made from metals like copper and silver generally unfit for melee use. The marksdwarves can then be recruited from the most useless migrants each season and trained with the melee dwarves acting as meatshield against live sieges. It is much harder to get the melee component of the army up and running. My principle with regard to melee combat is that quality > quantity. Quantity only leads to tantrum spirals. Quality is my legendary swordsmaster killing an entire tigerman squad that I trapped in a tunnel single-handed. If you don't use danger rooms, you should always make sure that each veteran is training an apprentice to whom he passes down his skills in peacetime. Have the best soldiers train each other in squads of two in the initial years, embarking with at least a couple of skilled soldiers, and add to these any military recruits that arrive. Not allowing your population to grow quickly while preparing as fast as possible also delays the sieges until your preparations are complete.

Another thing is that often my military forts ignore most of the economic content of the game. Common industries in my military forts are reprocessing invader equipment (sewing images onto cloth, melting and reforging enemy equipment into serrated discs, bolt decorations and bolts) and prepared meals. Useless migrants are distracted with hauling/dumping busywork and held as reserve for any parts of the military that need refilling.

There are also quite a few quirks of dwarf AI to overcome. The first is the tendency of marksdwarves to, having run out of bolts, charge into the enemy suicidally. Having them somewhere where they can't easily run into the enemy force is necessary. The second is the tendency of a couple of keen observers among the melee dwarves to charge in by themselves while their comrades stand around with crossed-eyes. You need to be able to choose a battleground where you can mass your soldiers and prevent enemies from luring them into traps.

Many mounted enemies will also employ hit and run strategies that can be highly effective, as they will pull apart a tight formation of melee dwarves and gang up on them when they are isolated. Fighting the enemy in underground tunnels or chambers where they have no room to flee, and even sealing off the exit so that they have nowhere to run helps a lot under these circumstances.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: schismatise on January 30, 2012, 02:19:39 am
Hi!

So i've been playing with Fortress Defense alot lately, it really makes the game for me. My experience is similar to alot of the recent posts - i embark with 2 soldiers, level 5 teacher and weapon skill, i break squads into smaller groups for extra sparring and make good use of my teachers, i station marksdwarves on small hills while my melee dwarves fight below, i don't use traps or danger rooms, etc etc. Some forts i don't use any walls or doors whatsoever, and just station everyone at the top of my staircase, but things usually get too chaotic with the way that dwarves love to chase enemies and ignore station commands, especially when some enemies find themselves on incredibly cowardly mounts ><

I'm still adjusting things to find the optimum difficulty - inevitable defeat at the hands of what i consider to be realistic and nearly-possible sieges, before FPS becomes an issue. For example, i turned off war elephants because it doesn't make sense to me that an animal is clad in steel but has no rider. Does someone just slap some steel on an elephant and then kick it up the ass to send it off to battle? :P But to counter-balance, i try to embark in areas with plenty of the civ's that i haven't turned off, preferably with my civilization at war with at least one of them.

Anyway, to that end, i have a couple of questions:

1) I've noticed that while most enemies are stated to use a particular type of weapons-grade metal, all of my enemies arrive with a random assortment of all weapons-grade metals. I seem to recall reading somewhere (about kobolds, i think maybe) that when an invader doesn't have access to the metal they've been assigned, they will just use anything, so that they have something rather than nothing. Is there any way i can get around this issue to better balance the sieges and remove some of the "RNG" factor (Hammer Lord with a silver maul = uhoh, Swordmaster with a silver sword = lols)? Mods i'm using include FD, Phoebus graphics, and some custom milling/brewing reactions, nothing else. I've played on worlds generated to year 5 and to year 125, no apparent difference in enemy metals.

2) Being that i turn off some of the civs, would it be possible to mod the other civs to attack more often - ie. Every season, instead of just eg. spring/winter? I noticed the readme gave this information, but not how to change it. (see edit below)

3) Further on that point, would it be possible to make certain civs only attack within a certain timeframe - eg. within the first 5 years of a fort, and never again after that? I love having a squad of beak wolves show up in early winter, but 5 squads of them showing up 5 years later is 1) obselete by now due to my dwarves skill/equipment 2) less fps due to pathing and mass item clutter 3) annoying because my dwarves chase them all over the place and wind up out of position and 4) somewhat unrealistic if you think of dark stranglers and beak wolves as scavengers similar to kobolds (which i like to).

4) Finally, bit of a random question but considering the nature of this mod i thought you might know - is it possible to mod the game or a world in some way to literally turn on war between 2 civilizations? I love the vanilla feel of the game and don't like to change things too much - i would love to be constantly sieged by humans and/or elves, but my attempts at slaughtering caravans have yielded no results, and i've yet to gen a world in which the dwarves were at war with the humans or elves.

If you can't be assed answering some/any of that, don't worry - if i really care, i'll probably figure it out myself :)

Thanks again, this mod is seriously epic win.

Edit: Ok, i think i found the answer to my second question - in the entity files, the ACTIVE_SEASON setting, right? Now my question is: if i change this (or other settings) in both the main raws and the data save raws, will it take immediate effect, or will i have to gen a new world? Also, any further information you could give me on civ settings relevant to !!Fun!! would be appreciated - like the PROGRESS_TRIGGER_ setting for example :)

Edit 2: Heh, right after i post this, top of the page there's a "when do i have to gen a new world" thread. Incase anyone was wondering - entity changes require new world.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: rephikul on January 30, 2012, 02:34:41 am
For 4) you can change the ethic of the civs so they have the maximum amount of arguments and have a high chance of being at war with each other. Nothing is guaranteed, tho.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: darkflagrance on January 30, 2012, 03:36:20 am
Does someone just slap some steel on an elephant and then kick it up the ass to send it off to battle? :P

Rule of cool  8)

1) I've noticed that while most enemies are stated to use a particular type of weapons-grade metal, all of my enemies arrive with a random assortment of all weapons-grade metals. I seem to recall reading somewhere (about kobolds, i think maybe) that when an invader doesn't have access to the metal they've been assigned, they will just use anything, so that they have something rather than nothing. Is there any way i can get around this issue to better balance the sieges and remove some of the "RNG" factor (Hammer Lord with a silver maul = uhoh, Swordmaster with a silver sword = lols)? Mods i'm using include FD, Phoebus graphics, and some custom milling/brewing reactions, nothing else. I've played on worlds generated to year 5 and to year 125, no apparent difference in enemy metals.
It depends. Some enemies (Blendecs, Nagas, Hellfire Imps) are expected to use the same variety of copper/bronze/iron/silver that goblins do (Imps might have steel access)). Other civilizations have their weapon materials specified in the raws via custom reactions. Ferric Elves use Silver and Iron. Tigermen use only copper. Warwolves use only iron. I think that races with steel enabled actually pick instead from all weapons grade metals.

Also: races pick materials for their weapons apparently at random from the available pool. The best you can do is only allow a civ access to slashing weapons and materials with a good edge, or to blunt weapons and silver/copper. A more complex mod might have something like Crucible Iron and Crucible Bronze that can only be made into weapons and Hardened Copper or something that could only be made into armor, and use custom reactions to do something like have a race armed with Crucible Silver mauls and Hardened Iron armor.


2) Being that i turn off some of the civs, would it be possible to mod the other civs to attack more often - ie. Every season, instead of just eg. spring/winter? I noticed the readme gave this information, but not how to change it.

For each civilization's entity, find tags that look like this:
   [ACTIVE_SEASON:SPRING]
   [ACTIVE_SEASON:WINTER]
These will vary depending on the civ.

Replace them with:
   [ACTIVE_SEASON:SPRING]
   [ACTIVE_SEASON:SUMMER]
   [ACTIVE_SEASON:AUTUMN]
   [ACTIVE_SEASON:WINTER]

You can change this even while a game is in progress. You just need to save and quit and then reload the game.

3) Further on that point, would it be possible to make certain civs only attack within a certain timeframe - eg. within the first 5 years of a fort, and never again after that? I love having a squad of beak wolves show up in early winter, but 5 squads of them showing up 5 years later is 1) obselete by now due to my dwarves skill/equipment 2) less fps due to pathing and mass item clutter and 3) annoying because my dwarves chase them all over the place and wind up out of position.

Similar to above: if you remove all of an entity's ACTIVE_SEASON tags, it will never attack you again.


4) Finally, bit of a random question but considering the nature of this mod i thought you might know - is it possible to mod the game or a world in some way to literally turn on war between 2 civilizations? I love the vanilla feel of the game and don't like to change things too much - i would love to be constantly sieged by humans and/or elves, but my attempts at slaughtering caravans have yielded no results, and i've yet to gen a world in which the dwarves were at war with the humans or elves.

Go into the entry of the creature (i.e. creature_standard -> CREATURE:HUMAN)
Find a tag that says INTELLIGENT
Delete it and replace it with CAN_LEARN
This will create automatically hostile races. I can't remember for sure whether you need to regenerate the world for this or not though.

Thanks again, this mod is seriously epic win.

Glad you enjoy it  ;D

Edit 2: Heh, right after i post this, top of the page there's a "when do i have to gen a new world" thread. Incase anyone was wondering - entity changes require new world.

The sticky lies!!!!!!! I edit entities while a fort is in progress all the time to "customize" and "enhance" my experience  ;)

PROGRESS_TRIGGER_<category> and ACTIVE_SEASON can be changed even while a game is in action. Don't think there's anything else that can be changed though.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: schismatise on January 30, 2012, 04:16:11 am
Ahh, excellent, thankyou. I was just about to ask how it is that your custom civs attack even without a war.

For anyone else wondering, http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Entity_token has alot of useful information as well.

Not sure if i want to take the easy way out and make elves and humans auto hostile, or try mucking around with ethics to generate "real" war. Hmmm. Question: Does being at war with an already automatically hostile civilization cause them to siege you even more often? I'm guessing it does, the world i'm playing now includes a war between dwarves and white tigermen, and they seem to be attacking quite frequently... although they are often the most numerous anyway.


It depends. Some enemies (Blendecs, Nagas, Hellfire Imps) are expected to use the same variety of copper/bronze/iron/silver that goblins do (Imps might have steel access)). Other civilizations have their weapon materials specified in the raws via custom reactions. Ferric Elves use Silver and Iron. Tigermen use only copper. Warwolves use only iron. I think that races with steel enabled actually pick instead from all weapons grade metals.

Also: races pick materials for their weapons apparently at random from the available pool. The best you can do is only allow a civ access to slashing weapons and materials with a good edge, or to blunt weapons and silver/copper. A more complex mod might have something like Crucible Iron and Crucible Bronze that can only be made into weapons and Hardened Copper or something that could only be made into armor, and use custom reactions to do something like have a race armed with Crucible Silver mauls and Hardened Iron armor.


I see. Interesting. I might be wrong, but i've been noticing all invaders having random materials for most of their equipment - definitely weapons and shields, not sure about armour. I've also noticed that warwolves only send wrestlers - so far i haven't seen any armour or weaponry on a warwolf. Could this be a potential bug in your mod then? Should tigermen only be using copper shields? Or is it simply a case of you can only do so much, and the outcome is somewhat random either way.

Oh well, i might just deal with that one, not sure i can be assed mucking around with the raws that much when i could instead be playing!
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: darkflagrance on January 30, 2012, 05:06:30 am
Not sure if i want to take the easy way out and make elves and humans auto hostile, or try mucking around with ethics to generate "real" war. Hmmm. Question: Does being at war with an already automatically hostile civilization cause them to siege you even more often? I'm guessing it does, the world i'm playing now includes a war between dwarves and white tigermen, and they seem to be attacking quite frequently... although they are often the most numerous anyway.

I can't tell for sure if the auto-attack civilizations attack with a different frequency from civilizations at war with the player; they seem to at least have the same frequency as goblin sieges.

I see. Interesting. I might be wrong, but i've been noticing all invaders having random materials for most of their equipment - definitely weapons and shields, not sure about armour. I've also noticed that warwolves only send wrestlers - so far i haven't seen any armour or weaponry on a warwolf. Could this be a potential bug in your mod then? Should tigermen only be using copper shields? Or is it simply a case of you can only do so much, and the outcome is somewhat random either way.

I'm pretty sure that Tigermen are only using copper in the versions of Fortress Defense that I am playing. They should only have access to copper, and always have access to it independent of how world gen works out. Likewise, the last time I fought War Wolves, they brought many wrestlers, but I also recall some of their squads were armed. Though I doubt there are actual bugs, I'm going to retest when I have the time (ugh, the weekend is already over) Sadly, I don't have time to retest immediately due to the backlog of other work I let pile up.

Edit: Actually, warwolves do have a higher incidence of wrestlers than I had wanted, and I hypothesize it is due to their high striker skill, which overwrites the low levels of weapon ability they are spawned with.  Thanks for reporting that bug to me. Warwolf weapon masters spawn just fine however, because their weapon skill is high enough.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: schismatise on January 30, 2012, 05:24:43 am
I can't tell for sure if the auto-attack civilizations attack with a different frequency from civilizations at war with the player; they seem to at least have the same frequency as goblin sieges.

Indeed.. from memory, i'm starting to think the frequency is the same in any combination.

I'm pretty sure that Tigermen are only using copper in the versions of Fortress Defense that I am playing. They should only have access to copper, and always have access to it independent of how world gen works out. Likewise, the last time I fought War Wolves, they brought many wrestlers, but I also recall some of their squads were armed. Though I doubt there are actual bugs, I'm going to retest when I have the time (ugh, the weekend is already over) Sadly, I don't have time to retest immediately due to the backlog of other work I let pile up.

No stress. Like i said though, i have been killing alot of white tigermen lately, and melting lots and lots of leftover weapons and armour - if you like, i can upload a save of my current fort in which i am 99% sure white tigermen are using metals other than copper. From memory, i'm also pretty sure that this is not a once-off, and the other civs i've been fighting lately (nagas, jotunar and badgermen) are also using a random assortment of metals. I was starting to think it must be something i've changed in the raws that is causing the issue for me only, but as i mentioned earlier, the only modding i've done is adding custom milling/brewing reactions. Oh and i'm using an SDL binary patch for the crystal glass bug.

In reguards to the warwolves, it's probably just a matter of i haven't had enough of them yet - so far i've only ever had one siege from them before my fort has ended.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: darkflagrance on January 30, 2012, 05:26:28 am
It can't hurt to upload a save. I'll take a look when I don't have a dozen books to read through before wednesday  :'(
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: schismatise on January 30, 2012, 05:27:31 am
Heh, all good. I'll let you know if i have any further, more definitive findings.

Edit: Here's the save: http://oron.com/wyto06w55o17

I had to upload it literally 4 times, DFFD got stuck at 99% twice, and then i forgot to log in to oron before uploading the 3rd attempt, lol. Stupid internet.

Quote
Save of 0.31.25 with Fortress Defense II v9 and custom milling/brewing reactions.

Invaders using random assortment of metals instead of their properly allocated metal (eg. White Tigermen with bronze/steel/silver spears instead of only copper).

F1 = surface, note the dead tigerman axemen/macemen (in the process of being dumped into lava, along with some goblins).

Stocks -> Weapons, note the (small) assortment of halberds/morningstars (the rest were recently melted).

Stocks -> Shields, note the assortment of materials (all from the recent siege, except the adamantine shields which my speardwarves are currently using).

Two recent goblin ambushes may be skewing some of the information slightly (i think the flails/whips and probably some shields belong to them, as well as the bows), so nothing is definitive, but with the amount of tigermen who died in the recent siege (at least 2 squads), one would imagine there should be an excess of copper.

If you want more definitive results, just leave it running in the background and wait for the next siege i guess? :)

Hope that helps.

PS. Check out the kill list of my militia commander ^^
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: darkflagrance on February 05, 2012, 11:18:30 am
Heh, all good. I'll let you know if i have any further, more definitive findings.

Edit: Here's the save: http://oron.com/wyto06w55o17

I had to upload it literally 4 times, DFFD got stuck at 99% twice, and then i forgot to log in to oron before uploading the 3rd attempt, lol. Stupid internet.

Quote
Save of 0.31.25 with Fortress Defense II v9 and custom milling/brewing reactions.

Invaders using random assortment of metals instead of their properly allocated metal (eg. White Tigermen with bronze/steel/silver spears instead of only copper).

F1 = surface, note the dead tigerman axemen/macemen (in the process of being dumped into lava, along with some goblins).

Stocks -> Weapons, note the (small) assortment of halberds/morningstars (the rest were recently melted).

Stocks -> Shields, note the assortment of materials (all from the recent siege, except the adamantine shields which my speardwarves are currently using).

Two recent goblin ambushes may be skewing some of the information slightly (i think the flails/whips and probably some shields belong to them, as well as the bows), so nothing is definitive, but with the amount of tigermen who died in the recent siege (at least 2 squads), one would imagine there should be an excess of copper.

If you want more definitive results, just leave it running in the background and wait for the next siege i guess? :)

Hope that helps.

PS. Check out the kill list of my militia commander ^^

I took the weekend to play your fort and found the cause of the problem: the individual entity file for tigermen is out of date. Going to fix that and the warwolf issue together, along with anything else I find when I do another check.

Side note: Nice fort! I love the organization of industries and dwarves and the battalions of marksdwarves :p I got all your legendary speardwarves killed by naga bowmen though  :'( Had to rely on the random axe, mace, and swordddwarves among your haulers.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Blah on February 05, 2012, 03:46:23 pm
Now I'm curious to see this fort as well, but Oron doesn't like me. The download fails due to server terminating connection halfway through. Any chance to get this uploaded to a better host, like ifile.it?
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: darkflagrance on February 06, 2012, 03:31:27 am
Denied! The problem was not with the tigerman entity!

After my long nap, from which I just woke up, I delved a little deeper, and I found that the problem was that schismatise didn't install the mod correctly. You need to copy-paste the reaction_fdmetals.txt file as well, otherwise many entities will have undefined reactions resulting, no doubt, in the use of all metals including steel. Having not encountered this bug before, I didn't at first realize what was causing the steel-using tigermen. The errorlog also states that the other key materials files are missing.

Unfortunately, I suspect that re-adding that files that are missing will require a world regen.

I will still make appropriate changes to the warwolves (and elephants) and reupload.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: schismatise on February 07, 2012, 07:34:46 am

I took the weekend to play your fort and found the cause of the problem: the individual entity file for tigermen is out of date. Going to fix that and the warwolf issue together, along with anything else I find when I do another check.

Side note: Nice fort! I love the organization of industries and dwarves and the battalions of marksdwarves :p I got all your legendary speardwarves killed by naga bowmen though  :'( Had to rely on the random axe, mace, and swordddwarves among your haulers.

BLASPHEMY! Actually, i'm impressed you managed to get them killed at all, those guys were beast.

And yes, my fort organisation often bears the brunt of my obsessive compulsive nature :P

Denied! The problem was not with the tigerman entity!

After my long nap, from which I just woke up, I delved a little deeper, and I found that the problem was that schismatise didn't install the mod correctly. You need to copy-paste the reaction_fdmetals.txt file as well, otherwise many entities will have undefined reactions resulting, no doubt, in the use of all metals including steel. Having not encountered this bug before, I didn't at first realize what was causing the steel-using tigermen. The errorlog also states that the other key materials files are missing.

Unfortunately, I suspect that re-adding that files that are missing will require a world regen.

I will still make appropriate changes to the warwolves (and elephants) and reupload.

Ah, now that makes much more sense. I suspected as much, but i had checked everything and was forced to conclude the problem was outside my influence.

I can see now where i went wrong - when i first installed your mod i was a complete mod noob, and so i read the instructions *very* carefully and followed them to the letter, and unfortunately the wording in the instructions for installing only *some* of the races only mentions the creature and entity files - reaction_dfmetals.txt is only mentioned in the basic instructions :) I guess noone elses who installed the mod in this way is as pedantic as me? lol.

Good to know i can fix that though. No worries about that old fort - i've made several new worlds since, been playing around with the orc mod, and per your advice, modding elves and humans to be auto-hostile :)

Now I'm curious to see this fort as well, but Oron doesn't like me. The download fails due to server terminating connection halfway through. Any chance to get this uploaded to a better host, like ifile.it?

Oron works for me because i have an account, probably. Fortunately for you, i happen to have my own webspace! It's uploading now, should be available at this link within about 10 minutes of this post:

http://schismatise.com/files/schismatise_2012-01-30_region1.zip
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: darkflagrance on February 07, 2012, 03:23:15 pm
I can see now where i went wrong - when i first installed your mod i was a complete mod noob, and so i read the instructions *very* carefully and followed them to the letter, and unfortunately the wording in the instructions for installing only *some* of the races only mentions the creature and entity files - reaction_dfmetals.txt is only mentioned in the basic instructions :) I guess noone elses who installed the mod in this way is as pedantic as me? lol.

Acknowledged. When I prepare the next version of Fortress Defense, I shall take care to pay attention to the wording of the installations.

As for the deaths of the spearmen, it was due to exceedingly poor planning and troop arrangement and a loooooot of enemy archers. :-[ I believe Likot survived; he had 130+ kills when I finished testing  :o

However, War Elephants are proving more problematic to mod and test than I had imagined. I'm going to be delayed while I re-imagine and test their current implementation.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Lpfn1822 on February 08, 2012, 04:42:17 pm
Love the idea of the mod. I tried to install it, can't seem to get the graphics going when applied to vanilla DF.
Tried to apply the mod to vanilla DF+Mayday graphics, at population 20 now, only a kobold has attacked.
Is there a full package available anywhere? Full package being Dwarf Fortress + This mod + The graphics installed.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: darkflagrance on February 08, 2012, 04:54:58 pm
None at the moment pending mod revision, but I can prepare a temporary one shortly.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Lpfn1822 on February 08, 2012, 04:57:29 pm
That would be great man.
I'm usually not this bad at applying mods, maybe I'm having an off day=/
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: darkflagrance on February 08, 2012, 05:06:59 pm
Linky here:link (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=5458)
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Lpfn1822 on February 08, 2012, 05:14:09 pm
Thanks a ton man
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Yoink on February 10, 2012, 10:17:07 am
Having a crash bug, and I am unsure whether this mod is causing it, or what...
The game keeps consistently crashing at pretty much the same moment each time I load it, and the errorlog said something about the crundle/rutherer RAWs, and I realised I had messed up some tags there whilst making them tameable.
So I fixed those, but the trouble persists... Are there any sieging races which usse such creatures? It is the middle of siege season, and I have just received three in quick succession, so I'm guessing it could be a new army invading with buggy creatures.
Any ideas for a solution? ??? I really love this fort. For context, the only invaders I've had are dark stranglers, beak wolves, white tigerfolk and jotun(who were, amusingly, finally beaten back by just a few veteran dwarves after wiping out half the fort without any trouble). Also, part of the map is currently on fire thanks to giants, and I believe there are some kobolds lurking around.
Oh, and the gamelog doesn't seem to open, which is kindof scary. Notepad just freezes when I try and open it. :o
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: darkflagrance on February 10, 2012, 03:41:06 pm
Most likely your gamelog is freaking massive from having recorded all game activity fromm all your forts. You can safely delete or clear it I think.

Not likely to be a problem with my mod, which doesn't touch those creatures. However, feel free to also post the entries of the broken creatures (maybe make a new thread) and see what me and other modders have to say.
You should also check your errorlog and post the relevant errors.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Yoink on February 10, 2012, 07:15:38 pm
Ah, okay. Well I cleared it out, and each time I run the game all that's recorded is a bunch of white tigermen getting poked at by spike traps... Certainly not something I could imagine causing a crash.
I'll have to look into this further, I might make a new thread in a while. Thanks!
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: bombzero on February 10, 2012, 07:53:13 pm
Darkflagrance i find it kind of amusing how your mod is more commonly used in other mods, than played by itself.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Yoink on February 10, 2012, 08:01:05 pm
Hey, I play it by itself. :P Although it's a shame how half the new civs were dead in my world... I was cruisin' along until the jotun showed up!
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: bombzero on February 10, 2012, 11:23:31 pm
Yeah, horrific thing to have as your first siege.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: kingofthescots on February 10, 2012, 11:26:17 pm
Not sure if this is a bug, or working as intended... but the dark stranglers brought war polar bears in their most recent siege!
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: Zaerosz on February 10, 2012, 11:45:56 pm
Not sure if this is a bug, or working as intended... but the dark stranglers brought war polar bears in their most recent siege!
I'd call that an unintended feature.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: darkflagrance on February 11, 2012, 04:19:15 am
It's Toady's gift to all invaders after they were crushed so easily and nakedly in 40d. In worldgen they can randomly get war beasts assigned to them and the only thing you can do to prevent it is kill the enemy leader.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v9: Tin-Bearing Blendecs!
Post by: kingofthescots on February 11, 2012, 05:00:12 pm
Well then. I had best start praying to Armok. Those polar bears just slaughtered my steel armed/armoured troops. Hopefully that won't happen on my next regen lol.
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v10: War Elephants in Full-Plate!
Post by: darkflagrance on February 11, 2012, 05:18:18 pm
New release:

---Changes for 0.10

-ELEPHANTS REWRITTEN
-Elephants and Warwolves should equip armor more regularly
-Elephants and Warwolves have lower natural skills
-Elephants now use weapons and have new bodyparts
-New armor types added to fix bugs with vanilla armor behavior
-Tigermen no longer attack in summer
Title: Re: [0.31.25] Fortress Defense Mod II v10: War Elephants in Full-Plate!
Post by: darkflagrance on February 11, 2012, 06:33:20 pm
Blargh, there is a minor error in the current upload.

Warwolves should not have the SLOW_LEARNER tag in their creature entry. This causes many of them to lack the skill to wield weapons and remain wrestlers. If you want to, you can make this change yourself. The DFFD links have already been updated to reflect this bug fix.

Edit: all uploads fixed. Also, the new caps had to be removed as well.

Edit2: Mental note edit:

Natural skill is quite interesting.

If you make natural wrestling skill high enough, the enemy will always be naked wrestlers even with access to metal and armor.

If you give a unit SLOW_LEARNER, it will not have enough experience in a weapon skill to overcome even level 2 wrestling skills and also become a naked wrestler. Weapon masters will not suffer this problem, meaning you can have sieges of mostly naked wrestlers and a few armed weaponmasters.

I wonder what happens to a race with high mace skill but no access to maces? Do they come with armor but no weapons?
Title: Re: [0.31.25/34.01] Fortress Defense Mod II v10: War Elephants in Full-Plate!
Post by: Neyvn on February 14, 2012, 05:50:46 am
I return home from work in 2hrs. This mod must be working by then. I cant stand vanilla sieges...
Title: Re: [0.31.25/34.01] Fortress Defense Mod II v10: War Elephants in Full-Plate!
Post by: Blurk on February 16, 2012, 11:10:11 am
If i remove the [Clothing] tag what will happen?
Title: Re: [0.31.25/34.01] Fortress Defense Mod II v10: War Elephants in Full-Plate!
Post by: ciadude2 on February 18, 2012, 05:42:35 pm
I return home from work in 2hrs. This mod must be working by then. I cant stand vanilla sieges...

It works with the new version for me so far.
Title: Re: [0.31.25/34.01] Fortress Defense Mod II v10: War Elephants in Full-Plate!
Post by: Emulated_Reality on February 19, 2012, 12:04:58 am
The current FD Mod seems to cause necromancer towers to not ever be built. I have seen this with both the Masterwork mod as well as in worlds I gen using FD (bonus and challenge enabled). Any ideas why this might be?

Edit: Seems that necromancers are just as weak to the increased difficulty level as the dorfs. Very hard to get them be built at all but with the right settings and a bit of luck it is possible.
Title: Re: [0.31.25/34.01] Fortress Defense Mod II v10: War Elephants in Full-Plate!
Post by: Meph on February 19, 2012, 05:21:34 pm
Interesting. Any science on how this affects Fortress Mode ? No stray necromancers coming by ? If this is so, I would add custom made, to ensure that people have fun.
Title: Re: [0.31.25/34.01] Fortress Defense Mod II v10: War Elephants in Full-Plate!
Post by: Emulated_Reality on February 19, 2012, 06:14:29 pm
I've not had any yet, but have not played enough for it to be conclusive. I can tell you that necromancers in legends are being killed off too early to write books and they have no significant activities. It may be the case that would-be necromancer producing civs are getting sieges and fail to pass their knowledge. Unless you can mod towers in after world gen its going to be difficult to have a world with both the added civs/invaders as well as normal necromancy.
Title: Re: [0.31.25/34.01] Fortress Defense Mod II v10: War Elephants in Full-Plate!
Post by: darkflagrance on February 20, 2012, 05:38:15 am
I'd recommend trying to start early and see if the necromancers survive. After all, too long in world gen and you'll memory leak to death anyway.

Storing old mirrors here.

Spoiler: "old mirrors" (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [0.31.25/34.01] Fortress Defense Mod II v10: War Elephants in Full-Plate!
Post by: Meph on February 20, 2012, 12:56:39 pm
I usually play with 10 years of history. That is enough to get all megabeasts fully grown on my mod, and keep the civs alive. (since I have 200 titans in every custom worldgen setting)
Title: Re: [0.31.25/34.01] Fortress Defense Mod II v10: War Elephants in Full-Plate!
Post by: darkflagrance on February 20, 2012, 05:07:38 pm
If I didn't have to produce a ton of writing in the coming week I'd be bugfixing this immediately. But I haven't had much time even this weekend to do the work I need to do academically, let alone for this mod...
Title: Re: [0.31.25/34.01] Fortress Defense Mod II v10: War Elephants in Full-Plate!
Post by: DustanH on March 01, 2012, 12:18:15 am
any update on this awesome mod?
Title: Re: [0.31.25/34.01] Fortress Defense Mod II v10: War Elephants in Full-Plate!
Post by: Naryar on March 01, 2012, 12:48:54 pm
So no dragons as the ultimate siegers ?
Title: Re: [0.31.25/34.01] Fortress Defense Mod II v10: War Elephants in Full-Plate!
Post by: xaldin on March 01, 2012, 02:22:56 pm
So no dragons as the ultimate siegers ?

I'd second this as a neat addition. Dragon flights could be awesome.

Also adding necros so that you don't have to be near a tower to get the nice new enemy would be cool.
Title: Re: [0.31.25/34.01] Fortress Defense Mod II v10: War Elephants in Full-Plate!
Post by: darkflagrance on March 02, 2012, 07:32:08 am
I'm waiting till the weekend to make updates. Lately I've been dealing with a swamp of other work that needed taking care of.
Title: Re: [0.31.25/34.01] Fortress Defense Mod II v10: War Elephants in Full-Plate!
Post by: Olith McHuman on March 09, 2012, 07:52:00 pm
Great mod! But creatures that should breathe fire aren't for me. My errorlog seems to indicate that the game doesn't like the [FIREBREATH] and [DRAGONFIREBREATH] tokens.

It looks like dragons no longer have [DRAGONFIREBREATH], they now have
Code: [Select]
[CAN_DO_INTERACTION:MATERIAL_EMISSION]
[CDI:ADV_NAME:Breath fire]
[CDI:USAGE_HINT:ATTACK]
[CDI:BP_REQUIRED:BY_CATEGORY:MOUTH]
[CDI:FLOW:DRAGONFIRE]
[CDI:TARGET:C:LINE_OF_SIGHT]
[CDI:TARGET_RANGE:C:15]
[CDI:MAX_TARGET_NUMBER:C:1]
[CDI:WAIT_PERIOD:50]

And vanilla fire imps have
Code: [Select]
[CAN_DO_INTERACTION:MATERIAL_EMISSION]
[CDI:ADV_NAME:Hurl fireball]
[CDI:USAGE_HINT:ATTACK]
[CDI:BP_REQUIRED:BY_CATEGORY:HAND]
[CDI:FLOW:FIREBALL]
[CDI:TARGET:C:LINE_OF_SIGHT]
[CDI:TARGET_RANGE:C:15]
[CDI:MAX_TARGET_NUMBER:C:1]
[CDI:WAIT_PERIOD:30]
[CAN_DO_INTERACTION:MATERIAL_EMISSION]
[CDI:ADV_NAME:Spray jet of fire]
[CDI:USAGE_HINT:ATTACK]
[CDI:BP_REQUIRED:BY_CATEGORY:HAND]
[CDI:FLOW:FIREJET]
[CDI:TARGET:C:LINE_OF_SIGHT]
[CDI:TARGET_RANGE:C:5]
[CDI:MAX_TARGET_NUMBER:C:1]
[CDI:WAIT_PERIOD:30]

The ferric elves are also giving me "Unrecognized Color Token: DARK_GRAY"
Title: Re: [0.31.25/34.01] Fortress Defense Mod II v10: War Elephants in Full-Plate!
Post by: thistleknot on March 10, 2012, 10:36:59 am
It's kind of hard for me to search this thread for 34.0 since it's in the title, so...
i dl'd it and it's 31.25. Is the title suggesting I can copy the objects into 34.0x and get it working?
Title: Re: [0.31.25/34.01] Fortress Defense Mod II v10: War Elephants in Full-Plate!
Post by: greycat on March 10, 2012, 01:05:15 pm
Fortress Defense Mod II v10.zip
149642 bytes

Installing it is a matter of copying a bunch of *.txt files into a DF raw/objects/ subdirectory.  I've done it with 0.34.x and it seems to be working so far.
Title: Re: [0.34.05] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps !
Post by: darkflagrance on March 11, 2012, 05:59:04 pm
Updated for 34.05; really just raw fixes. See the front page for links.

I'm going to make a new file entry for the Basic+Challenge Mode combined file and upload that soon. I'm also only going to make mirrors on demand.
Title: Re: [0.34.05] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Meph on March 11, 2012, 06:04:07 pm
Did you alter only the creatures, or the entity files as well ? I ask since I have your races optional in my mod, and of course dont want to offer an outdated version :)
Title: Re: [0.34.05] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: darkflagrance on March 11, 2012, 06:04:57 pm
Did you alter only the creatures, or the entity files as well ? I ask since I have your races optional in my mod, and of course dont want to offer an outdated version :)

Only creatures.
Title: Re: [0.34.05] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Meph on March 11, 2012, 06:09:09 pm
Perfect, thank you. :) I already did do a 34.05 compabitlity myself, but I am curious what you did tweak. I remember reading: elephants in full platearmor in the title a while back...
Title: Re: [0.34.05] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: darkflagrance on March 11, 2012, 06:28:41 pm
Perfect, thank you. :) I already did do a 34.05 compabitlity myself, but I am curious what you did tweak. I remember reading: elephants in full platearmor in the title a while back...

The 0.10 version added War Elephants that used plate armor rather than just chainmail.
Title: Re: [0.34.05] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps !
Post by: greycat on March 11, 2012, 06:28:56 pm
Updated for 34.05; really just raw fixes.

spoiler="old mirrors" ...

I was confused by the links to the old version in that announcement post.  The links to the new version are in the first post on the first page.
Title: Re: [0.34.05] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps !
Post by: darkflagrance on March 11, 2012, 06:30:16 pm
Updated for 34.05; really just raw fixes.

spoiler="old mirrors" ...

I was confused by the links to the old version in that announcement post.  The links to the new version are in the first post on the first page.

Yeah, put them there before moving them to a storage file, and forgot to remove them. But the links are on the front page.
Title: Re: [0.34.05] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: katana on March 17, 2012, 01:36:30 pm
So I was playing in adventure mode and decided to be a dwarf. I found helmet snake/naga men. So I guess this makes sense if the place was conquered or something. There I found a helmet snake man strand extractor. Just thought you might want to know about the second part.
Title: Re: [0.34.05] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: darkflagrance on March 17, 2012, 04:01:53 pm
So I was playing in adventure mode and decided to be a dwarf. I found helmet snake/naga men. So I guess this makes sense if the place was conquered or something. There I found a helmet snake man strand extractor. Just thought you might want to know about the second part.

I must admit, I'm not entirely sure where the problem lies. Should I get rid of helmet snake man strand extractors? They can't strand extract in adventure mode, and they won't be bringing the spoilerite anytime soon.
Title: Re: [0.34.05] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: mrtspence on March 22, 2012, 01:23:19 pm
Been enjoying this mod as much as ever.

Have to ask though, is it intentional that Beakwolves use mounts?

I currently have a siege where there is about a dozen beakwolves on giant wrens and another dozen using war grizzly bear mounts. They also brought like ten war tigers too. Certainly makes them a lot nastier when you have to fight flying enemies so early!
Title: Re: [0.34.05] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Kogut on March 22, 2012, 01:55:12 pm
Have to ask though, is it intentional that Beakwolves use mounts?
AFAIK no and it is impossible to change this.
Title: Re: [0.34.05] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: greycat on March 23, 2012, 06:16:00 pm
The readme for v11 says to copy "entity_fortdefense" and "creature_fortdefense" for both Basic and Challenge.  I believe the Challenge section should say "entity_fdchallenge" and "creature_fdchallenge".
Title: Re: [0.34.05] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: darkflagrance on March 26, 2012, 10:54:23 pm
The readme for v11 says to copy "entity_fortdefense" and "creature_fortdefense" for both Basic and Challenge.  I believe the Challenge section should say "entity_fdchallenge" and "creature_fdchallenge".

You are absolutely correct.
Title: Re: [0.34.06] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: vaderflag on March 31, 2012, 02:44:52 pm
Is FD compatible with .07 as it currently stands?
Title: Re: [0.34.06] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: kilakan on March 31, 2012, 05:36:00 pm
I don't think there was any raw changes so it should be compatible.
Title: Re: [0.34.06] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Kogut on April 01, 2012, 03:13:09 am
I don't think there was any raw changes so it should be compatible.
There were RA changes but minor, everything should work.
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Kire93 on April 17, 2012, 09:32:58 pm
While using this mod I tried to drown both beak wolves and dark stranglers, neither would drown!!! is there any way to fix this?
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Corai on April 17, 2012, 10:00:15 pm
Is it normal that I never get any of these things sieging?
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: tase on April 18, 2012, 12:42:39 am
Is there a way to deal with the ambusing Hellfire Imps? They burn everything very quick and kill a lot of dwarves, no time to react (my soldiers would just get burned anyway =/)
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Meph on April 18, 2012, 01:12:47 am
The problem with the fire is that the clothes start to burn. Try netherwood shields, this should help a little bit, since they have a fixed temperature, or just keep a distance and use siege engines/crossbows.

Firemoats, channeled trenches to stop ravaging wildfires, will also help a lot.
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Naryar on April 18, 2012, 01:57:54 am
I just want to say that war elephants are mean beasts. Especially their steel plate armor that is mostly immune to slash damage. And morningstars are OP.

Although it's not like adamantine isn't, and silver war hammers and maces are best to take on the elephant menace. Or crossbows.
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: greycat on April 18, 2012, 07:49:06 pm
Is it normal that I never get any of these things sieging?

Definitely not normal.  If you've copied the text files into raw/objects/ and then generated a world, you should be seeing the new civilizations.  (You can double-check your neighbors before embarking, to be sure they're within range.)
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: wypie on April 25, 2012, 07:21:45 pm
can I use the newest for 0.31.25?
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Putnam on April 25, 2012, 07:28:54 pm
can I use the newest for 0.31.25?

It shouldn't work, no.

Out of curiosity, why are you still on 31.25?
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: wypie on April 25, 2012, 07:30:20 pm
can I use the newest for 0.31.25?

It shouldn't work, no.

Out of curiosity, why are you still on 31.25?

Runesmith

also where can I get a copy for 31.25?
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Tierre on May 04, 2012, 05:11:45 pm
You got a typo in [CREATURE:SERPENT_MANFD] where    [CAN_LEARN]] - last is obviously from slow leaner which were in 31.25 version.
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: lleu on May 08, 2012, 03:47:48 pm
I use this mod with Nahril's Legends of Forlorn Realms mod, and even though I did generate a new world once I installed FD, I have never gotten a seige from one of the FD races. On the embark screen, all of the races show up when I tab to them, but they have never invaded. I'm currently at 48 population, and the only people to ever attack have been Kobold Thieves and the Shedim, once. Any help on how to fix this?
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 08, 2012, 09:20:39 pm
Any plans to add more races to FD? Maybe a race that can transform dwarves into more of its kind, or one that can raise the dead?
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 08, 2012, 10:01:33 pm
I use this mod with Nahril's Legends of Forlorn Realms mod, and even though I did generate a new world once I installed FD, I have never gotten a seige from one of the FD races. On the embark screen, all of the races show up when I tab to them, but they have never invaded. I'm currently at 48 population, and the only people to ever attack have been Kobold Thieves and the Shedim, once. Any help on how to fix this?

Keep playing past 50 population and see what happens. The arrival of enemy races is not completely reliable; they are members of a (albeit partially generated and buggy) living world after all.

Any plans to add more races to FD? Maybe a race that can transform dwarves into more of its kind, or one that can raise the dead?

I'm going to have a lot of free time this summer. For now, I have finals and a paper to write. Updates are currently scheduled for a future time.
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: barkalot on May 15, 2012, 10:25:37 am
So I tried using this mod with 0.34.08, and now I don't have minecarts or wheelbarrows.  How can I add them back in?
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: barkalot on May 15, 2012, 12:43:18 pm
oh god help. this lack of wheelbarrows is soul crushing
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: barkalot on May 15, 2012, 02:45:59 pm
Should i just not have overwritten entity_default.txt?  is that the problem?

I tried putting the old one back in, but no dice.  Do I have to gen a new world or just start a new fortress to get them to pop back up?
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 15, 2012, 04:12:28 pm
darkflagrance: Another idea. Maybe add in special weapons for the larger races that are sized specially for them? E.g. giant axes (jotunar), or stampede hammers (war elephants), or stuff like that?
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: tahujdt on May 17, 2012, 06:54:06 pm
Stampede hammers sound awesome!
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: tase on May 26, 2012, 01:36:51 pm
This mod doesn't work on an existing save-game right? Waiting for this to be updated before playing with the new version.
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Tierre on May 28, 2012, 04:41:12 am
This mod should work with new version. Also you can't add new civs to saves but you can alter existing civs. So if your save has previous version of FD mod then you can upgrade it.
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Intrinsic on May 29, 2012, 02:33:57 am
PTW
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: caddybear on May 29, 2012, 03:47:55 am
This works with the latest version, since they don't need minecarts and wheelbarrows; there is no need to update the entity files.
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: gunnarig on June 03, 2012, 01:01:44 pm
so there will be no problems using DF 34.10 ? since .07 was just bug fixes?
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on June 03, 2012, 01:07:02 pm
Yes there will be no problems.
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: gunnarig on June 04, 2012, 03:15:11 pm
Hey i just downloaded the mod but i have no idea how to install it. i went with the directions but nothing got overwritten could someone please elaborate in a way that my limited intellect can comprehend   :'(
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: greycat on June 04, 2012, 05:31:56 pm
Extract Dwarf Fortress into a new directory.
Extract Fortress Defense mod into a new directory.
Copy the *_*.txt files from the FDmod directory into the DF/raw/objects/ subdirectory.  Or if you don't want all of them, only copy the ones you want.
Launch DF, generate a world, embark.

Sample Linux installation:
Code: [Select]
mv df_linux df_linux.old
tar xjf df_34_10_linux.tar.bz2
unzip Fortress\ Defense\ Mod\ II\ v11.zip
cd Fortress\ Defense\ Mod\ II\ v11
cp *_*.txt ../df_linux/raw/objects/
cd ../df_linux

In practice, I rename my df_linux directories before cd-ing into them, so the above isn't exactly what I do, but it's close enough.
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: gunnarig on June 04, 2012, 08:08:19 pm
omg what have you done! all the poor dorfs are dead !!! DEAD !!! GENOCIDE !!!, im running a worldgen and about 2/3 of the worlds population is dead i ran it for 250 years is this too long ? im using all the races thats possible to have
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Tierre on June 05, 2012, 03:34:17 am
You shouldn't do that - you won't survive this anyway. Genocide of dorfs shows that:) Better pick some of them you like and put in your game. Nagas for example tend to breed in enourmous quantities and kill everyone. And hardes races are pretty... hard... are you sure you want them?:) But hey - more FUN with them:)
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: gunnarig on June 05, 2012, 11:15:10 am
yeah this is just a trial run :D i was just wondering if i should keep the worldgen shorter.
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: luppolo on June 09, 2012, 06:35:49 pm
i tried to run this on 34.11 and seems to work fine (tried only adventure yet though)
or it will break later during fortress?
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: TurkeyXIII on June 10, 2012, 06:12:50 am
Fortress mode seems to work for me (0.34.10).  Got a beakwolf squad attack me in the first year, but it was all good.

Use one of the first two links in the OP.  Copy/paste the text files from the unzipped directory into your /objects/raw folder as per the readme.  It shouldn't overwrite anything.

I never gen past 125 years with this mod.
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Corai on June 10, 2012, 02:37:52 pm
Fortress mode seems to work for me (0.34.10).  Got a beakwolf squad attack me in the first year, but it was all good.

Use one of the first two links in the OP.  Copy/paste the text files from the unzipped directory into your /objects/raw folder as per the readme.  It shouldn't overwrite anything.

I never gen past 125 years with this mod.

You lost to beakwolves? How?


Fun fact-Mountains dont stop them, if you embark on a all-mountain area they still come. My army-less mountainfort got trashed by nagas. xD
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Simon the Wizard on June 25, 2012, 05:07:25 pm
Hi love the mod adds a nice challenge.
Beakwolfs, Stranglers, Frogman(half of them is always happily jumping down the natural waterfall in my recent fortress) work really nicely, Warwolves are fricking dangerous, most of the ground units I've seen so far are behaving right. Got hellfire imp thiefs which really can wreck havoc with the one fireball they shoot after being detected, awesome^^
Ferric Elves are a bit wonky as they attack but after they walked into the initial traps and maybe lost 2-3 of their group they decide to just camp on the edge of the map, only attacking if someone comes to close.
Though flying creatures are really not working at all, got a lot of sieges in various fortresses and they always remain on the edge of the map doing nothing at all. Even ignoring dwarves that wander close, none of their ranged units firing either. You have to attack them directly to get an reaction. Always the same pattern.
And I think I'm getting the Nightwings always a bit to early around 60-70 dwarves with not that much wealth generated or traded and they come around once or twice the year(Though it isn't really a problem since the do basically nothing XD).
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: SAFry on July 04, 2012, 11:45:18 am
Some quick questions, sorry I tried to read through the last 40 pages to find the answers to my question but it's a bit much...

I wanted to use some of the FD races in my game but last time I did the Nagas kept showing up riding named war dragons and kicking my ass big time. Was this because I was trading too much stuff? Or because I left the world gen running too long? I basically want the races but don't want it to be TOO hard. Any advice?

Also is there a list anywhere about what race needs what biome? Thing is I'm doing a desert world and it can't place any elves so I want to replace them with a FD race, enabled all the easy races and only the Stranglers, Frogmen and Hellfire Imps got placed. Was expecting the Ferric Elves to be ok with it but I guess not, suppose the Frogmen will be ok, swimming up the plug-hole!   
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: greycat on July 04, 2012, 12:41:44 pm
Races and their biomes are in the entity_* files.  For example in entity_default.txt:

Code: [Select]
[ENTITY:MOUNTAIN]
        [CIV_CONTROLLABLE]
        [CREATURE:DWARF]
        ...
[START_BIOME:MOUNTAIN]

Which says "Here's a race called DWARF which spawns on MOUNTAIN tiles."  Likewise, Fortress Defense includes things like:

Code: [Select]
[ENTITY:KERMITFD]
        [CREATURE:FROG_MANFD]
        ...
        [START_BIOME:ANY_LAKE]
        [START_BIOME:ANY_RIVER]
        [START_BIOME:ANY_OCEAN]
        [START_BIOME:ANY_WETLAND]

Those are the frogmen, which spawn on the biomes listed there.
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: SAFry on July 04, 2012, 01:38:17 pm
@greycat, thanks for that, I guess the frogmen stole the few lakes on the map and there wasn't room for anybody else. Funny because there are definitely mountains and the other races didn't seem to be interested in them. I guess I'll probably just use the frogmen to replace the elves, now you've explained how it works I could probably mod ferric elves myself so they start in deserts or badlands. 

So, anything about how to avoid overpowered war dragon riding baddies?
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Tierre on July 05, 2012, 01:22:11 am
Shorter world gen. They always get some nasty mounts in long gen:( Or better yet - remove MOUNT and MOUNT_EXOTIC from dragons and all the overpowered creatures:) You can leave PET to be able to use them yourself but it won't be used as a mount anymore by enemies.
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: smakemupagus on July 28, 2012, 12:05:09 am
Hi all,

Really love Fortress defense, both native and in Masterwork.

I notice that Badgermen have this growth/size profile:
   [BODY_SIZE:0:0:12000]
   [BODY_SIZE:1:0:50000]
   [BODY_SIZE:80:0:900000]

Almost every other FD creature race grows by a factor of about ~2 from adolescent to adult, but these guys grow factor of almost ~20.  Any idea if it's working as intended or maybe a typo? 

Edit:  found my answer in your OP:  there you say they are supposed to be about 1.5 times size of a Dwarf, so i suppose it was a typo and they should be 90000


Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Arkenor on August 31, 2012, 01:26:58 pm
I am having a terrible time keeping the Dark Stranglers alive through a 130 year world gen. I've tried increasing their biome and site selections, but that doesn't seem to make much difference. They don't seem to be dying in huge numbers, according to Legend Viewer, so I'm not sure quite what's going on. Is it inevitable because they're such weak combatants?

*Edit* And the previous post might explain why the badgers always seemed to outnumber everyone else. Worldgen combat takes size into account I think?
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: smakemupagus on August 31, 2012, 05:55:04 pm
Yeah, worldgen combat is basically a series of individual duels, so badgermen (if you don't delete that extra '0' ;) can perform really well
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: dyllionaire on November 03, 2012, 03:50:25 pm
Is this mod working with the latest DF release?
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: katana on November 03, 2012, 04:09:56 pm
Yup.
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: nomad_delta on November 07, 2012, 04:21:49 pm
So my military was holing up reasonably well against the Beak Dogs and the Frogmen and the Tigermen and the Nagas.... the only real issue was not having enough haulers to clean up the mess between the attacks...

...and then the Hellfire Imps showed up.  My poor dwarves didn't stand a chance.  It seems the hellfire flames go right through fortifications, and iron armor and shields didn't seem to help much at all, my dwarves just caught on fire and died pretty quickly.

Another problem was that the hellfire apparently destroys bridges, which I use for various parts of my defense structure...  I tried rebuilding the destroyed bridges using Iron instead, but the next wave of hellfire imps just blew those up too...

So I have a couple of questions:

1. How do you guys defend against Hellfire Imps? Any suggestions?
2. Is there any way to build a bridge that Hellfire Imp flames won't destroy?

--nomad_delta
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: katana on November 07, 2012, 05:50:22 pm
If you also use LoFR, the blessed dwarves will really help against hellfires.

Other than that, I guess the only option is to have some sort of watchdog line to detect thieves way before they reach your fortress, and a load of marksdwarves one z-level up (to avoid collateral damage for when your watchdogs die).
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: nomad_delta on November 07, 2012, 06:03:04 pm
If you also use LoFR, the blessed dwarves will really help against hellfires.

Other than that, I guess the only option is to have some sort of watchdog line to detect thieves way before they reach your fortress, and a load of marksdwarves one z-level up (to avoid collateral damage for when your watchdogs die).

oh the hellfire imp thieves I don't have such trouble with, it's when I get sieged by like 20 hellfires at once that I have trouble, since they can all throw fire from just as far away as my marksdwarves can shoot :)

--nomad_delta
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: katana on November 07, 2012, 06:15:43 pm
Two layers of fortifications + elite marksdwarves and shields. And just to be safe, make their turret floodable with water.
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: LittleJP on November 09, 2012, 11:52:19 pm
Well, I had no idea there were Hellfire Imp Snatchers. My fortress is now on fire, at least the entrance is.
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Sashoke on May 01, 2013, 06:04:44 pm
Do I have to generate a new world for this to work? I have a cool world that I wanna try this on but I dunno if it'll work.
can I just install the mod and then open that world and whabam its working? Its only at a pop of 17 if it matters. Please reply soon :) Thanks
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Meph on May 01, 2013, 06:28:33 pm
Quote
Do I have to generate a new world for this to work?
yes.
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Sashoke on May 01, 2013, 06:49:57 pm
Quote
Do I have to generate a new world for this to work?
yes.
Alright, thank you for the quick response :)
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Crashmaster on July 22, 2013, 07:04:34 am
Seems like the Minimod (entity_default.txt) included in Fortress Defense Mod II v11 that removes useless clothing from some enemies does not include;
[TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_MINECART]
[TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_WHEELBARROW]

in the MOUNTAIN civ...

You can't make wheelbarrows or minecarts in worlds genned with this minimod used.

Looks like I'll be starting that fort again. Chances are slim I'll get another artifact copper battleaxe in the second spring again though  :-\ Probably a false hope anyways as I got all 22 civs to gen plus kobolds.
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: 4maskwolf on November 28, 2013, 11:22:25 am
I can't seem to get a dwarf civ to gen, even with max number of civs in the settings.  Is there something I am doing wrong or is this a relic of having so many civs?
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: gunpowdertea on February 14, 2014, 09:09:37 am
I can't seem to get a dwarf civ to gen, even with max number of civs in the settings.  Is there something I am doing wrong or is this a relic of having so many civs?

How long is the world gen? Start (much) earlier than with vanilla DF. So many civs will crush each other. Also: do not enable all of the mod's civs, but only a select few (I guess this is also mentioned in the README somewhere, but I am too lazy to check ;) )
Title: Re: [0.34.07] Fortress Defense Mod II v11: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Wannabehero on February 18, 2014, 05:21:53 pm
So I've started working on Glmulmuluuml gluulr (Murloc mod), and I'm trying to find a good way to differentiate murlocs (http://www.wowwiki.com/Murloc) from FD-2 frogmen.  Fortress Defense has inspired me to create a Civ expansion mod, which is now on my ever expanding list of DF related modding work that is incomplete.

On a related note, what is the level of invader difficulty players find to be the most balanced against their established forts?  I.E., what level of enemy starts to give FD players difficulty?  Just brainstorming for a balance perspective.
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: darkflagrance on March 21, 2014, 05:06:04 pm
Seems like the Minimod (entity_default.txt) included in Fortress Defense Mod II v11 that removes useless clothing from some enemies does not include;
[TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_MINECART]
[TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_WHEELBARROW]

in the MOUNTAIN civ...

You can't make wheelbarrows or minecarts in worlds genned with this minimod used.

Looks like I'll be starting that fort again. Chances are slim I'll get another artifact copper battleaxe in the second spring again though  :-\ Probably a false hope anyways as I got all 22 civs to gen plus kobolds.

Fixed 6 months later. ;)

If there are compatibility issues with the current version, let me know please. I have been away from DF and can't run it on my current aged computer for very long to run a fort :(
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Meph on March 24, 2014, 03:12:27 pm
Do you plan any fancy new invaders in the future? some that use interactions like a mage/wizard race, or some self-replicating ones that you have to defeat quickly, or shapechangers that transform and fully heal, but can be killed instantly with silver, or some that appear in small numbers like kobolds, but mind-control you dwarves? or q plaquebearer civ, weak in combat but highly infectious?

Just asking, since you never added new ones since interactions came out, and the furies/nightwings flying ai is broken, so they dont do anything in the first place.
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: darkflagrance on March 30, 2014, 09:54:32 pm
I am still coming to grasps with the new modding capabilities we have available to us now. With all the work to finish my masters I haven't kept up with updates at all. It looks like the new version isn't too far away. Once I get a handle on what I can now do I'll plan a version for df 2014.
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Meph on April 01, 2014, 04:39:04 pm
Thanks for the answer. I often get feedback or read stories that happen in MDF (which includes all FD races as an optional package) and many people enjoy the extra challenges of your creation. Its certainly a well loved feature and I am sure people would like some more technical enemies. :)
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: darkflagrance on April 03, 2014, 01:44:19 am
Thanks for the answer. I often get feedback or read stories that happen in MDF (which includes all FD races as an optional package) and many people enjoy the extra challenges of your creation. Its certainly a well loved feature and I am sure people would like some more technical enemies. :)

I had wondered whether people were still interested in my mod; it's good to see that my work still reaches people through the medium of your own megamod. :)

One other consideration is that I'm not entirely sure how the new version's living legends mode and increased entity behavior will interact with the hack that Fortress Defense uses to force enemies to go to war. It's likely it won't make a difference though; I think necromancer towers didn't affect my mod too much.
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Meph on April 07, 2014, 09:29:43 am
The newest Mdf community fort just survived a siege of 80 war elephants, so yes, it is certainly being used. :) (and the elephants rode mounts, which is probably not intended.)

Necromancers shouldnt affect civs much, if at all.
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: varnish on July 21, 2014, 12:59:26 am
Just wanted to chime in and say that I'm still interested in this mod, personally. It's my preferred mod for the game.
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Agent_Irons on July 21, 2014, 04:16:14 pm
I had a look at updating it by hand, and it seems...daunting? I don't have any idea what I'm doing though, so that doesn't help at all. Adding prepare:recover tags and gaits into the creature files is probably most of what you have to do? But there are also creature_variations that add punches and kicks now, so maybe it would be better to use those? I don't really know how to do that, though I am going to try after seeing if anything changed in Broken Arrow and using a tanning tweak I found to get more leather from bigger creatures.
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Agent_Irons on July 30, 2014, 12:15:43 am
I tried to update the dinosaurs. Conclusions: Not even remotely good enough at modding to even attempt an update for this.

White tigermen have moved, armor mechanics have changed, projectile physics have been totally reworked, there are gaits and morale and climbing and jumping. It's a big job, especially since the whole point of FD is to give interesting challenges.

So. Cheerleading division reporting for duty: darkflagrance! You can do it, yes you can! We like your mod on its own and as part of Masterwork! It's one of my must-haves!

But if you really don't want to or don't feel up to it, that's okay too.
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Putnam on July 30, 2014, 08:53:59 am
Morale, climbing and jumping aren't really too necessary to update. Gaits and attack prepare and recover times should be about it.
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Agent_Irons on July 30, 2014, 09:39:12 pm
FD creatures have always been about testing your defenses in ways goblins don't. Steel weapons, berserkers, fliers, frogmen.

Not to mention the fact that discipline has a huge effect on the difficulty of repelling a siege now, where it didn't before. Legendary climbers will just go right over your walls, and the new entity behaviors will make having all these things in a living world of reasonable age so that you can have real history kind of tricky. FD is pretty inventive.
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Vherid on July 31, 2014, 11:57:19 am
As putnam said updating the raws really shouldn't be that big a deal other then adding a few lines in some places. I might take a look myself.
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: SalmonGod on August 13, 2014, 07:14:14 pm
Has anybody tried updating this yet?
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Legionaries on August 14, 2014, 09:53:52 pm
I really like this mod.  I think it makes the game much more fun for me. 
I hope you don't have too much difficulty updating it to the new version - I plan to play the raws off of it once it is working.

This was the very first mod I ever installed - and is still my favorite.
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Aquathug on August 15, 2014, 11:13:50 am
Definitely my favorite and the only mod I use. I'm holding off playing .40 until this is updated :)
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: SalmonGod on August 16, 2014, 04:18:20 pm
Alright, this is definitely the most I've looked into any creature modding, but I read up on the relevant tokens carefully before messing with them.  If anyone has any further suggestions or finds any problems, I'll see about tending to them.  This is completely untested at the moment.

Now I'm going to throw this on top of Modest Accelerated Mash and see what happens :)

Download Link:  Fortress Defense 2014

Spoiler: Changelog (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Agent_Irons on August 17, 2014, 01:10:31 am
Thanks mate. Watch out, the ferric elves have a couple personality traits that are out of date. Also there are some START_GROUP_NUMBER tokens that are different now? That's what the errorlog is complaining about, at least. Worldgen seems to work, so. BABY STEPS, MAN.
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: SalmonGod on August 17, 2014, 01:56:18 am
I had actually never noticed the error log before... thanks for the pointers.  I'll have a look at them.

Edit:

-Removed or updated some defunct personality and entity tokens.  Nothing shows up in the error log now.
-Also removed the minimod that was previously packaged with the archive, since I imagine it also needs some updating, but doesn't seem worth the effort.  There are other mods already released for .40 that aim to clean up and optimize the game without removing content.  You'd be better off applying Fortress Defense to one of those.

Download Link:  Fortress Defense 2014 r2 (http://www.mediafire.com/download/ywi67y7627fhx9b/Fortress_Defense_2014_r2.rar)

I'm wondering what aspects of the personality/ethics systems were updated in .40 that FD isn't taking advantage of now.  I'll probably be looking into that soon.
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Agent_Irons on August 18, 2014, 01:29:50 pm
The whole dwarf soul/mind got overhauled in a big way, so the more intelligent foes probably need their minds updated too. I have no idea what the details of that are like.
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: samanato on August 18, 2014, 01:56:50 pm
You might also want to mod in discipline skills for civ races (and some other things like megabeasts) until morale is hopefully fixed.  It also helps invaders not run away at the first attack.
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Agent_Irons on August 18, 2014, 02:21:14 pm
You might also want to mod in discipline skills for civ races (and some other things like megabeasts) until morale is hopefully fixed.  It also helps invaders not run away at the first attack.
He did that, according to the changelog. Well. To the FD races and things, anyway. Tweaking the vanilla raws is something I do a lot, but it's a personal preference thing and therefore probably appropriate to leave up to the user.

(I put [SHELL] on chitin and scale, and [HORN] on nails. sometimes I put [pearl] on feather, but mostly they're just useless. Anesthetize the bones down to 30 and sensitize the organs up by 10-15 points each. )
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: SalmonGod on August 18, 2014, 05:20:24 pm
Yeah, I added natural discipline skills.  I also noticed afterwards that raising Bravery as a racial personality trait has a similar effect, but I don't know right now exactly how the two methods compare.

I was on vacation last week, and back to the grind today.  So updating the personalities/ethics of the FD races is definitely something I want to do, but I can't say when I'll get around to it.  I'll admit upfront that I'm wildly inconsistent when it comes to making progress on personal projects as long as I'm working a full time job and dealing with my family every day.
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Aquathug on August 19, 2014, 10:20:24 am
t I'm wildly inconsistent when it comes to making progress on personal projects as long as I'm working a full time job and dealing with my family every day.

You are doing Armok's work mate. I for one appreciate what you are doing, regardless of progress.

That being said, does anyone know if darkflagrance has taken a break from this?
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: SalmonGod on August 31, 2014, 07:28:28 pm
Fortress Defense 2014 r3 (http://www.mediafire.com/download/eiaqwzq30wikhzx/Fortress_Defense_2014_r3.rar)

-Gave sweat, tears, and spit to whichever creatures I felt appropriate.
-Fully incorporated the new [PERSONALITY] and [VALUE] definitions.  Kinda just flew through it and assigned whatever values felt right.
-Fixed a few typos and broken tokens I noticed.

Anyone who actually plays this, please let me know if anything doesn't seem right.
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Agent_Irons on August 31, 2014, 10:02:26 pm
I tried to drown some hellfire imps only to realize they don't breathe. That seemed crazy until I realized they live in magma, or used to until very recently. They really are a doozy, you have to be careful around them. They'll melt carelessly-constructed bridges, for instance.
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: tahujdt on September 12, 2014, 07:07:46 am
Ya might wanna consider starting a new thread.
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Legionaries on September 18, 2014, 01:02:25 pm
When I try to generate worlds I'm getting this error in the log:
*** Error(s) found in the file "raw/objects/creature_fortdefense.txt"
Unrecognized Personality Facet Token: STRESS_PROPENSITY
I looking at the template files now but so far I've not figured out why this is happening.
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: SalmonGod on September 21, 2014, 12:21:38 am
Does it disrupt the game at all?
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Putnam on September 21, 2014, 01:43:59 am
No.
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: dagger on May 03, 2015, 07:39:19 pm
Fortress Defense 2014 r3 (http://www.mediafire.com/download/eiaqwzq30wikhzx/Fortress_Defense_2014_r3.rar)

-Gave sweat, tears, and spit to whichever creatures I felt appropriate.
-Fully incorporated the new [PERSONALITY] and [VALUE] definitions.  Kinda just flew through it and assigned whatever values felt right.
-Fixed a few typos and broken tokens I noticed.

Anyone who actually plays this, please let me know if anything doesn't seem right.

Can I still use this?
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: SalmonGod on May 03, 2015, 07:43:26 pm
Umm... I have no clue.  I would think so probably...
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: dagger on May 04, 2015, 10:13:40 am
Well I am in game, showed several of the races as hostile on embark screen. No attacks yet but its only winter.....hopefully soon!! :D
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Naryar on May 12, 2015, 02:47:50 pm
Fortress Defense does seem to be pretty underwhelming in DF2014.

I suggest adding ITEM_THIEF to entities. Then they attack.
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: darkflagrance on July 19, 2015, 03:00:16 am
Lately I've been dealing with unwillingly becoming an adult. But I'm going to refresh myself on the mechanics of the new version and updating this mod. I'm making this message to force myself to commit.

Edit: It looks like the current version just has crappy siege mechanics in general. I'm going to preserve the links for the previous version in case people prefer to use the older version of the game. I may start a new thread for the next version of FD.

For future reference: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=145797.msg5816365#msg5816365 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=145797.msg5816365#msg5816365)

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140015.msg6166549;topicseen#msg6166549 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140015.msg6166549;topicseen#msg6166549)
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Hoooooooar on July 21, 2015, 09:47:28 am
So i tried this mod, i recall it being exactly what i was looking for.

Its been 3 years and still no invasion of any kind, come to think of it there was no invasion period on vanilla game either.  What has this latest version done?

WHERE ARE THE INVASIONS DAMNIT.
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Teneb on July 21, 2015, 10:29:08 am
So i tried this mod, i recall it being exactly what i was looking for.

Its been 3 years and still no invasion of any kind, come to think of it there was no invasion period on vanilla game either.  What has this latest version done?

WHERE ARE THE INVASIONS DAMNIT.
Due to how invasions work in 0.40, it may take longer to get an invasion. It seems dependent on your distance from the attacker, as, I guess, there are abstracted armies marching all over now.
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: SalmonGod on July 21, 2015, 11:53:33 am
I encourage someone else taking over.  I didn't put a lot of effort into updating this to DF2014, and don't have much modding knowledge.  It's entirely prossable that I screwed some things up that result in lack of sieges.  I just didn't want to see this mod fade into nothing.
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Putnam on July 21, 2015, 07:01:52 pm
you probably didn't mess up like that
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Hoooooooar on July 22, 2015, 05:52:38 pm
Well, i've let the game run for about 48 hours or so, and the first level wolves showed up, but nothing after that.  I never would have thought that i'd say that dwarf fortress is just too easy when i first started out.
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: darkflagrance on July 23, 2015, 11:28:00 pm
Well, i've let the game run for about 48 hours or so, and the first level wolves showed up, but nothing after that.  I never would have thought that i'd say that dwarf fortress is just too easy when i first started out.

Yep, this is the stage in development I'm at right now. I'm testing the triggers to see if I can force invasions without external scripts at the moment. At the moment I'm checking out other people's mods; if anyone knows a mod with fast invaders, let me know. I'm wondering if I have to tinker in worldgen as well.
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Meph on July 24, 2015, 04:23:58 am
The only way to affect invasions is the TRIGGERS in the entity file. Of course some more prolific and successful entities will siege more, but they also kill more other civs in worldgen, making it a double-edged sword.

Best option in future will be the spawnunit version expwnent is working on atm, it allows spawning groups of enemies at the map edge with specific equipment, but it would mean "hardcoded" invasions, each one set up by hand by a modder.
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: darkflagrance on July 24, 2015, 09:32:27 am
The only way to affect invasions is the TRIGGERS in the entity file. Of course some more prolific and successful entities will siege more, but they also kill more other civs in worldgen, making it a double-edged sword.

Best option in future will be the spawnunit version expwnent is working on atm, it allows spawning groups of enemies at the map edge with specific equipment, but it would mean "hardcoded" invasions, each one set up by hand by a modder.

Balance with only the in-built triggers is going to be tricky. I might need to rethink what civs I even include and how they scale. I think the problem is that worldgen can easily give the player a world where sieges are highly unlikely, leading to highly variable levels of conflict. I don't think it's an inherent flaw of SalmonGod's version, but a problem that Toady needs to fix in the next update with entity hostility.

I'm thinking I'll merge Stranglers and Beakwolves or remove one of them. They will arrive concurrently with Blendecs, Frogmen and Tigermen at the earliest trigger. The second trigger will see the arrival of nagas, ferric elves, pandashi, badgermen, and warwolves. The third and final trigger will bring elephants and hellfire imps (also nightwings). If I update the bonus races, I'll restructure them accordingly.

Early races may be likely to fight each other, but later races will use the same _THIEF tags so that they ally instead. EDIT: upon further investigation this does not guarantee they will not attempt to kill each other.

I think I will incorporate some of the bonus races into the base mod to make up for the lower chances of civilizations a) spawning armies and b) landing them on top of your fort. Judging from mods like MW, Dwarf Fortress can handle the high number of civs anyway. I may need to bump up reproduction.

Edit: Found an intriguing suggestion - make all races like Mountainhomes, and only tolerate each other's dwelling places, to focus the sieges on dwarves.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Meph on July 25, 2015, 12:00:17 am
#You can also make invaders that attack from the caverns, in case you did not know.
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: Teneb on July 28, 2015, 05:09:52 pm
Someone in the mod question thread suggesting adding PLAYER_FORTRESS to the liked sites list. Or even making it the only kind of site they like. That might work.
Title: Re: [0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v12: Hellfire Imps with real Hellfire!
Post by: darkflagrance on August 11, 2015, 12:19:02 am
Still in testing. Meanwhile, I decided I didn't like Minotaurs, and upgraded them to Ruthertaurs. Hoping to test the final entity changes soon.

If anyone would greatly prefer the original minotaurs, let me know.

#You can also make invaders that attack from the caverns, in case you did not know.

I will consider this in a later version. If this is a more reliable option to make forced sieges, I will probably switch over to it.

Current changelog:
I made progress triggers lower, never exceeding 3 except in one case
I fixed some raw issues with eggs and personalities
altered minotaurs into ruthertaurs (rutherlords? I like this name better)
altered climb of jotun and furies
gave everyone item_thief or babysnatcher
gave everyone    [LIKES_SITE:PLAYER_FORTRESS]
misc natural skill changes
The easier civs now all have
   [START_BIOME:ALL_MAIN]
   [START_BIOME:ANY_RIVER]
   [START_BIOME:ANY_POOL]
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: darkflagrance on August 11, 2015, 08:39:04 am
Hopefully the new version of DF being imminent doesn't render my progress moot.

In the mean time, I'm still tweaking the current version of Fortress Defense and updating the documentation.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: TheHossofMoss on August 20, 2015, 03:59:21 pm
I look forward to your progress! Thanks again for all your hard work.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: darkflagrance on August 25, 2015, 11:45:00 pm
Quote
Number of Civilizations

This number of civilizations will be placed on the map before history generation begins. These civilizations may later die out due to historical events. The five races are dwarf, elf, human, goblin, and kobold; they will be placed in equal numbers until the quota has been reached. If there is an odd number of civs (not divisible by 5), then the remainder is distributed randomly. Kobold civs require caves to be placed; if no caves exist, then kobolds are skipped and will not appear. This does not cause rejections data.

Note that a high value here can cause lots of map rejections, particularly on smaller maps as there simply isn't enough room or regions to put them all in.
Token    Example    Notes
[TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:<number>]    [TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:40]    Range: 0 to 300

WHY DIDN'T I KNOW THIS WAS A THING. NO WONDER I CAN'T GET MORE THAN 10 CIVS PER EMBARK.

To anyone playing this mod: if you get attacked, please post the year and season of the first attack, and if you get attacked again, of the second attack. I'm trying to get a feel of how effective the current set of changes are and whether further tweaking is needed.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: Shonai_Dweller on August 31, 2015, 04:37:02 am
Testing this at the moment. Will report back with details of sieges (or lack thereof) after a few more years (only a Werehorse Warwolf so far). Two years in I note that a lot of the evil monsters around me are far more interested in warring amongst themselves than attacking me.

I don't suppose there's a way to trigger the 'war' status artificially at the beginning of play to make everyone at war with your civ (or all Dwarf civs)? Vanilla Goblins always seem to turn up eventually if we start at war as opposed to just 'hostile'.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 01, 2015, 07:48:02 pm
There might be a way to do it with df hack, and to get it to happen with high probility through ethics misalignment, but I do not know of any current way to force war status, sadly.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: Catharsis on September 05, 2015, 06:30:50 pm
Got my first invaders 4 years in (also had a thief (war elephant) and a couple babysnatchers (hellfire imp), seems to be a little glitch with them in the naming, but I haven't had enough sieges in the new version to really know if this happens a lot or not:

(http://i.imgur.com/mwaekDW.png)

Using the most recent experimental btw.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 06, 2015, 12:38:19 am
Thanks for the feedback! It's encouraging to have confirmation of this mod's efficacy.

I think the naming is caused by some furies being historical figures and others being generated fresh for the invasion. It should be no problem for some (and later, many) invaders to have no names.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: Catharsis on September 06, 2015, 11:34:27 pm
Played another fortress with this mod. Settled on an island with only dwarves and white tigermen. Started in year 5, a giant came in year 10, and white tigermen arrived in year 11 (6 of 9 were without names, so you're probably right about that, although of the 9, the only named were 3 wrestlers, but that's probably just a coincidence.) Also, just to note, all were armed and armorer except the wrestlers, who did not have armor on (intended?) One thing I did notice that was strange was that in two instances the tigerman charged each other, but I reckon this is some side effect of crowding that causes the tigerman to charge at someone who is within his path instead of his intended target, since they did not attack each other otherwise.

Glad I saw some action though, was about to call it quits for this world after 5 years but thankfully that giant showed up (the white tigerman squad showed up moments after it was slain.) That said, my fortress wealth is only at 500k, with 63 dwarves (capped at 50, excluding births), and 6 years isn't that long of a wait anyway. However, I was able to arm and armor 5 dwarves in full masterwork iron gear and train them to (mostly) all legendary combat skills within that time, and they made extremely short work of the squad, suffering not only no causalities, but also no wounds. This was only the first squad though so I will be sticking it out instead and I'll report more on how the war progresses.

Also, here is some combat text from the siege:

(http://i.imgur.com/vjouViZ.png)

That's gotta hurt.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 07, 2015, 03:39:40 am
Five years sound serious, but I'm glad the invaders managed to come in the end. I'll be following your progress as you post more!

Tigermen should have the lowest progress triggers, so this implies that even at the earliest a fortress will have to wait several years for an invasion.

I suspect the wrestlers, being historical figures, picked up wrestling and decided to come naked. I guess that's their decision.

The iffiness of invasions is why I generally recommend allowing multiple civs access; that way even if one falls prey to an unpredictable bug in the current version, the others can provide some...gutwrenching entertainment.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: Catharsis on September 07, 2015, 01:23:48 pm
Was going to wait a bit longer before I posted, but there are a few oddities here that need to be shared anyway.

Shortly after my previous post, in early 11, one of the dwarves in my fortress took the position of king out of nowhere, and I assumed the worst. This was confirmed when I checked legends, it seems the tigermen have claimed the original fortress of my civilization, killing the queen and everyone else. This aggression will not stand.

As I was preparing my king's quarters, year 12 rolled around and with it another siege.

(http://i.imgur.com/JaFsBrD.png)

Well, that's... interesting. Seems all the animals have names and none of the tigermen do. Also, the horses were not mounted, but simply fought alongside the invaders (in fact one of them is a recruit... not sure how that works.) Was a little worried at the sheer numbers, but my five axelords made quick work of them, slaying all tigermen and dogs, leaving only a few of the horses to escape, whilst suffering no casualties or injuries.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 08, 2015, 03:04:46 am
Damn those tigermen! Curse their filthy furred ways!

This looks like War Troll behavior. Tigermen didn't use to do this in older version of DF - they used to mount their available animals instead of bringing them. It looks like this is associated with the updates to goblins that caused them to bring bigger sieges. I think I will fiddle with the use animal tags, if I can - but I don't think this is too undesirable yet. The animals get assigned names most likely because of updates to the invader code when this behavior was introduced to apply to non-entity invaders, and it likely does not apply to non-notable invaders due to a bug.

edit: looks like these tags cause this behavior
Code: [Select]
[COMMON_DOMESTIC_PACK]
[COMMON_DOMESTIC_PULL]
[COMMON_DOMESTIC_PET]

Replacing them with
Code: [Select]
[USE_CAVE_ANIMALS]or
Code: [Select]
[USE_GOOD_ANIMALS]
[USE_ANY_PET_RACE]
Should disallow horses and war dogs - and trigger unicorns and jabberers.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: Meph on September 08, 2015, 03:27:30 am
I know you don't want to be dependent on dfhack, but I just wanted to let you know that scripts exist that can assign specific animals/creatures to civs as mounts, warbeasts, minions, etc. It's possible to give tigermen war-tigers to ride and tiger-ogres instead of trolls; give hellfire imps some troops of balrogs or demon-dogs to ride, etc.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 08, 2015, 09:36:41 am
I know you don't want to be dependent on dfhack, but I just wanted to let you know that scripts exist that can assign specific animals/creatures to civs as mounts, warbeasts, minions, etc. It's possible to give tigermen war-tigers to ride and tiger-ogres instead of trolls; give hellfire imps some troops of balrogs or demon-dogs to ride, etc.

You are right Meph. I feel that part of my design philosophy for Fortress Defense is keeping the diverges from vanilla necessary to make the mod work relatively minimal, and only add what's necessary while using as many basic assets as possible. I like a mod that's low maintenance to install and use, and for that reason I try to stay clear of dfhack. I'm not sure the additional features would be worth the increased installation complexity. But this does not hold true for branches of Fortress Defense not maintained by me - anybody is free to make those changes themselves, if they desire.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: Meph on September 08, 2015, 10:55:57 am
Just wanted to let you know. ;)

If you like to make a list of war-animals, mounts and minions (goblins have trolls) for each race, I might be able to supply those. No extra work for you, but people that like to play Fortress Defense + Fortress Defense Pets, could drag&drop it into their files.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: varnish on September 09, 2015, 03:57:08 am
I'm so glad to see this being worked on again. I'm trying out a fort right now, and will hopefully have something interesting to report.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: Shonai_Dweller on September 22, 2015, 05:49:03 am
I've just completed 5 years with this mod (0.40.xx experimental) and I guess it's time to report.
Playing the complete install. Basic worldgen: Large world, Very High sites, beasts and savagery. 250 year history.
That left all the races intact, there was even 1 Dwarf civ left (out of 5) with a healthy population of just under 2000.

I embarked in the most Fun looking location I could find. A long, long way from the other Dwarf sites with neighbours of: Fiend Spiders, Badgermen, Raptormen, Tigermen, Warwolves, War Elephants, Pandashi, Jotunar, Frogmen, Hellfire Imps, Dark Stranglers and Goblins. There were Humans and Elves around someplace too apparently, but they never turned up in the five years of play.

Year 1: Quiet. Population 27 by the end of Autumn

Year 2: Werehorse attack in Spring. Turns out to be a War Wolf. Werehorse Warwolf. Hmm. Interesting.
            Population 69 by the end of Autumn. Gave traders massive profits and sent millions in tribute to mountainhome.
            FB attack. Giant Bee. 1 Dead guard. Mayor lost a hand. One chap with advanced rot in the lung - seems to be OK.

Year 3: Spring migrants bring the population to 91. Attacked by a giant. FB in the caverns in Autumn and then...
            Winter Goblin siege! Yay! 10 goblins. Swordmaster wiped them out. Military training OP...?

Year 4:  Spring - Dark Strangler Siege! 9 monkeys and a kobold thief caught in the crossfire.
            Summer - War Elephant thief failed to sneak into the fortress was chased by one of the crossbow squad...
                            who ran into a Goblin Siege! 35 goblins and 9 trolls.
            Autumn - Bit of a break to give loads more gold to the traders to encourage bad people to come visit.
            Winter - White Tigermen Siege!!! Bit of an anti-climax, they showed up and left right away.

Year 5: Spring - Frogman thief. Not falling for this one again. Leave him be and sure enough...
                        Dark Strangler siege! 31 Dark Stranglers. The swordmaster strolled out to meet them
                        ...and ran into a Pandashi Ambush! An ambush, in .40.24!!?? Wonders never cease.
                        Approaching the Pandashi and.."A horse has sprung from ambush!". Um...OK
                        Altogether about 50 Pandashi were hidden out there and two evil horses. They all ran away
                        when they saw the swordmaster approaching.
            Summer - Great Fiend Spider Siege! 10 spiders. Unstoppable forces of evil and..."I was attacked! How shocking!",
                           "Gruesome wounds...begone fear". Not quite as scary when they start talking. Interestingly the siege included
                            3 Great Fiend Spider Crossbowmen. Luckily they seem to have left their crossbows at home.
             Autumn - Goblin siege! 42 goblins
             Winter - Dark Strangler siege! 39 Dark Stranglers.

And that's where I left it. Basically an attack every season starting at year 2 winter. Hopefully the Spiders are coming back in force next year. No hellfire imps, Badgermen or Jotunar yet.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 22, 2015, 07:17:16 pm
Thanks for the report Shonai_Dweller! I'm glad to see that my mod was successful one more time in delivering !!FUN!! Encouraging the otherwise shy sieges with offerings of gold to the rng should be an effective approach, due to the tags tied to production and trade on the FD races.

It seems so far that enemies never come with sieges within the first two years, but boosting population and trade can have them come as early as the third year? I haven't been able to do enough tests to know whether all civs within range will eventually come, or whether bugs will each some armies en route. I'll look at Great Fiend Spiders and see what their tags are making them do, but their speech capabilities do make them cutely reminiscent of the spiders in The Hobbit.

I assume the Spiders gained crossbow skill from knowing how to shot web.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: Shonai_Dweller on September 22, 2015, 08:32:57 pm
Now that I'm at war with spiders, monkeys, tigers and goblins, I'm going to retire this fort and start a new one nearby. We'll see how fast the baddies turn up when you start in an established war zone.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: Immortal-D on September 25, 2015, 08:38:50 pm
So this is where all of those !FUN! visitors in Masterwork come from.  I hope the world-pathing or whatever bug gets addressed in the next patch so I can see all of these critters again.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: Shonai_Dweller on September 28, 2015, 05:27:07 am
How much did you modify the production and trade tags in this mod?
I assume it's still suffering from the same pathing bug that vanilla has, but I had more goblin attacks playing this than I've ever seen before. Makes me wonder if fixing the bug will have much of an effect at all.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 28, 2015, 05:25:22 pm
How much did you modify the production and trade tags in this mod?
I assume it's still suffering from the same pathing bug that vanilla has, but I had more goblin attacks playing this than I've ever seen before. Makes me wonder if fixing the bug will have much of an effect at all.

Trying to post from a location with terrible, terrible internet. I've lost this post multiple times, so I'll give a quick summary of what I attempted to post the last two times:

I did not modify goblins. Their behavior might be indirectly related to Fortress Defense civs however, perhaps by encouraging a war footing in world gen or similar. The Fortress Defense civs themselves have progress triggers from 1 to 3, so that they arrive earlier than goblins; they could potentially be triggering the pathing bug on themselves because they come sooner, and thus sparing goblins. On the other hand, people have reported that goblins from time to time do make it to forts on schedule as well, so you might just be experiencing natural variance.

When work is not choking me with a wet dishrag, I need to look up the specifics of the pathing bug on mantis, assuming it's listed there at all.


http://mail.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=7739 is the pathfinding bug. Toady claims to have fixed it in August.

This is a related bug: http://mail.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=8754
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: Shonai_Dweller on September 28, 2015, 10:12:59 pm
Interesting. Might just be my choice of embark then.
Goblins apparently finished off my fort less than a year after I retired it. Must send in an adventurer to take revenge.

No sieges in first two years of the new fort. Elf and Human caravans showed up though. Wonder why they never came to the last place? It's only just down the road with all the same neighbours. Pathing bug?
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 29, 2015, 10:28:52 am
Interesting. Might just be my choice of embark then.
Goblins apparently finished off my fort less than a year after I retired it. Must send in an adventurer to take revenge.

No sieges in first two years of the new fort. Elf and Human caravans showed up though. Wonder why they never came to the last place? It's only just down the road with all the same neighbours. Pathing bug?

I have gotten elves/humans at forts that were later attacked before.

That said, now that I know more about the pathing bug, check the list of civs in contact range to see if you have contact with hostile civs. Hostile civs vanishing from that list was one of the symptoms of the pathfinding bug.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: TheHossofMoss on October 01, 2015, 10:18:24 am
Please forgive me if this has already been addressed in this topic, but has anyone used this mod with the Modest Mod in addition and encountered any problems?

If not, I'll happily be the guinea pig cavy boar for testing in it.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: darkflagrance on October 02, 2015, 12:26:49 am
Might have to replace leather materials or tissue layers, if you're using Accelerated Modest Mod. Otherwise, it looks like the regular Modest Mod is designed to interface with the vanilla tags and definitions, which should mean that Fortress Defense II is also compatible.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: RocheLimit on October 02, 2015, 02:48:59 pm
Just realized this was still ongoing and you were asking for information!  I used Fortress Defense 2014 r3 with DF 40.24.  I hope the data I have is applicable.


My current fort LeopardLens was begun in the year 250.  Here is the embark screen:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So this fort is near Goblins, Ferric Elves, Greater Badgermen, Great Fiend Spiders, Jotunar, Humans, White Tigermen, Frogmen, and Warwolves.  Pretty much as extensive a group as I could find.

The fort is now in its 36th year.  It has experienced 43 separate sieges.  The numbers of every siege are detailed in the following images:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

One interesting thing noted during these fights were the usefulness of various animals brought.  White Tigermen had a habit of bringing great numbers of horses and camels, even appearing mounted on them in three attacks.  Yet in each attack, the animals fled wildly at the mere sight of a dwarf.  Here is a picture and gif from siege #3, composed of 31 tigermen and 31 horses/camels, all mounted, and siege #7, composed of 36 tigermen and 37 horses/camels, with all tigermen mounted:

Siege #3, 255-10-04
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Siege #7, 261-10-02
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The mounted fights were both interesting and annoying, as while the mounts fled the tigermen were more than willing to fight.  Which resulted in my dwarfs giving chase to pummel the mount, and having the tigermen take free shots at the dwarf as the mount ran all over the place.

If you would like any additional information concerning any of the sieges listed, I have detailed write-ups of each, pictures of the attacking force before engagement, animated gifs of every fight save some of the earlier ones, and pictures showing the aftermath.  Just let me know and I will post what I have.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: darkflagrance on October 02, 2015, 05:18:06 pm
AWESOMELY EXTENSIVE DATA LOGS

Thank you for the data RocheLimit! The animated gifs are extremely impressive; they're an excellent way to document a decades-long campaign. I find myself entranced by the Tigermen milling about before they engage the dwarves, and I wonder if you considered making an album or posting a campaign history to share with the community. I'm in the process of looking through the data logs, but a couple of things stood out to me. I've been trying to confirm whether Fortress Defense races suffer from the problem of running out of trained soldiers, and it looks like late-stage Badgermen were arriving naked, or as wrestlers. I'm also surprised that Goblins eventually petered out completely but Tigermen stayed strong. Go Tigermen!

How tough are naked Jotunar and Fiend Spiders? I've learned tricks to deal with them myself, but I've been wondering how users of the mod perceive their difficulty, considering their size and/or mechanics.

I noticed the fort waited four years to receive its first siege. That seems in line with other data that has been collected for the mod, and for invasions in general. I think it's an acceptable wait period, as long as the sieges do come after that point is reached. I also see it took a progress_trigger_x:5 race 27 years to start coming to the fort. I suspect the late arrival of Ferric Elves was due to conflicting triggers with the Tigermen. This might even have been the case for the other later arriving races.

The fleeing Tigerman mounts exhibit behavior that human mounts also exhibited historically, because the siege code doesn't war train invader animals (probably due to a lack of identifying tags). I am personally fond of this behavior because I see the kiting tactics as semi-realistic, but I have been considering changing how the FD civilizations interact with mounts/animal allies. Considering that Tigermen only rarely mounted their sieges, it might even be a good change of mechanics to have once in a while.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: Shonai_Dweller on October 02, 2015, 07:01:13 pm
Is the population trigger for each race actually working? By the end of year three I usually have enough dwarves to trigger all the sieges, so it's kind of hard to tell.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: darkflagrance on October 02, 2015, 08:44:58 pm
Is the population trigger for each race actually working? By the end of year three I usually have enough dwarves to trigger all the sieges, so it's kind of hard to tell.

I'm still in the very slow process of testing, but I have not been able to confirm anything. The three year wait for sieges is a great hindrance to my testing, along with my work schedule eating up DF time. I'd need to set up a set of trials to test out individual triggers in isolation, but each trial would require a new fort, as far as I can tell.

That said, given the constant 3-year wait for sieges, the actual specified value of tags might be irrelevant, or might mean higher triggers mean even later arrivals, as I theorized in my previous post in reaction to RocheLimit's logs.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: RocheLimit on October 03, 2015, 11:22:28 am
I'm glad my data is helpful!  I've been documenting this fort for months now with the end goal of releasing the story once finished.  I did upload all the siege-relevant pictures/gifs though, with accurate titles and descriptions; I will pm you a link to the album.

Hmmm, Jotunar and Fiend Spiders? 

Jotunar are the more difficult of the two, as a lucky fireball can end a dwarf's life easily.  If they get their hands on a dwarf, it is also bad news.  But overall, they aren't too bad.  By the time they came, I had 8 squads of 10 Legendary fighters.  Their overall lack of armor/weapons combined with DF2014's penchant for creatures giving into pain at a stubbed toe means they can be quickly incapacitated.  Shields negate most of their one advantage, fireballs.  To make them more terrifying?  Make them immune to pain, imo.  With giant-sized armor/weapons.

Great Fiend Spiders: they arrive with no armor or weapons.  They do not shoot web.  While I have not had many sieges from them, they are not too horrible.  They would be MUCH more difficult if they shot web; my dwarfs would have to hole up inside.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: darkflagrance on October 03, 2015, 06:48:02 pm
I'm glad my data is helpful!  I've been documenting this fort for months now with the end goal of releasing the story once finished.  I did upload all the siege-relevant pictures/gifs though, with accurate titles and descriptions; I will pm you a link to the album.

Hmmm, Jotunar and Fiend Spiders? 

Jotunar are the more difficult of the two, as a lucky fireball can end a dwarf's life easily.  If they get their hands on a dwarf, it is also bad news.  But overall, they aren't too bad.  By the time they came, I had 8 squads of 10 Legendary fighters.  Their overall lack of armor/weapons combined with DF2014's penchant for creatures giving into pain at a stubbed toe means they can be quickly incapacitated.  Shields negate most of their one advantage, fireballs.  To make them more terrifying?  Make them immune to pain, imo.  With giant-sized armor/weapons.

Great Fiend Spiders: they arrive with no armor or weapons.  They do not shoot web.  While I have not had many sieges from them, they are not too horrible.  They would be MUCH more difficult if they shot web; my dwarfs would have to hole up inside.

Thanks to your data on later invaders, I can make some productive bug fixes.

Hotfix for Great Fiend Spiders:

Where it says
Code: [Select]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SILK:SILK_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_COLOR:ALL:RED]

Paste underneath:

Code: [Select]
[WEBBER:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SILK]
[CAN_DO_INTERACTION:MATERIAL_EMISSION]
[CDI:ADV_NAME:Spray web]
[CDI:USAGE_HINT:ATTACK]
[CDI:BP_REQUIRED:BY_TOKEN:LB]
[CDI:MATERIAL:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SILK:WEB_SPRAY]
[CDI:TARGET:C:LINE_OF_SIGHT]
[CDI:TARGET_RANGE:C:5]
[CDI:MAX_TARGET_NUMBER:C:1]
[CDI:WAIT_PERIOD:30]

Paste this somewhere in the top part of their creature entry. It looks like they didn't make the crossover into the interactions rewrite properly.

Badgermen and Jotunar are supposed to be using armor and weapons. I'm currently scanning their raws to see what causes this bug.

Also, in the next update, Great Fiend Spiders will be able to bite dwarves through steel helmets (maybe not masterwork steel), to prevent them from being helpless against steel armor.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: Number7 on October 04, 2015, 03:05:19 am
is there any way to make sure your civilisation isn't extinct at the start? i've been using 125 year histories but have gotten the no outpost liason every single embark (4 different world gens)
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: darkflagrance on October 04, 2015, 04:49:33 am
is there any way to make sure your civilisation isn't extinct at the start? i've been using 125 year histories but have gotten the no outpost liason every single embark (4 different world gens)

I prefer to start with ~30 year world gens. The problem is that world gen invasions auto-succeed, so I suspect surviving for a longer period of time is harder.

You could also try increasing the size of the world and making sure you play on a region map.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: Shonai_Dweller on October 04, 2015, 06:07:22 am
I thought auto-invasion success was fixed towards the end of the last run? Doesn't seem to be the case glancing through legends. Dwarves always seem to survive 250 years (albeit a bit battered) in the worlds I've tried. Always large worlds, with 'very high' sites.

Annoyed to discover my Fury population is 6(!) in my new world. Result of 233 year war with Hellfire Imps. Ruthertaurs didn't make it all, wiped out by roc and colossus (my fault for setting beasts at very high I guess).

In other news, I see Toady has fixed mounted goblins, which is good news for future versions of this mod. :)
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: CaptainLambcake on October 04, 2015, 01:24:42 pm
Whenever I try to install this mod with lazy newb pack it says there is a merge conflict.  How do I go about fixing this?
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: darkflagrance on October 04, 2015, 03:33:09 pm
Whenever I try to install this mod with lazy newb pack it says there is a merge conflict.  How do I go about fixing this?

I can say that if you follow the installation instructions in the readme, and just paste the mod files directly into the game's raw folder, the LNP version of DF will still work properly and make changes accordingly.

It looks like you may not be using the PyLNP merge feature correctly. You need to set up the directory correctly so that there is a Fortress Defense/raw/objects folder in the Mod folder of PyLNP, and then use the up arrow to merge it into the "Merged" box.

I thought auto-invasion success was fixed towards the end of the last run? Doesn't seem to be the case glancing through legends. Dwarves always seem to survive 250 years (albeit a bit battered) in the worlds I've tried. Always large worlds, with 'very high' sites.

Annoyed to discover my Fury population is 6(!) in my new world. Result of 233 year war with Hellfire Imps. Ruthertaurs didn't make it all, wiped out by roc and colossus (my fault for setting beasts at very high I guess).

In other news, I see Toady has fixed mounted goblins, which is good news for future versions of this mod. :)

I might be wrong about the populations. Also, if you see any challenge or bonus civs (Jotunar, Badgermen, Pandashi, Nightwings, Ruthertaurs) coming naked, please let me know. I'll just run some test legends modes and get some data as well.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v13x: It's Never Too Late to Update!
Post by: darkflagrance on October 04, 2015, 07:12:04 pm
Furies are abysmally bad at world gen, but it looks like past 70 years the current versions of the weaker races also get crapped on by the stronger ones. I am going to rework furies (I've already buffed stranglers and frogmen).
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v14x: Spiders Now Crush Skulls
Post by: darkflagrance on October 05, 2015, 11:32:16 pm
I just posted a new update that fixes the bugs pointed out by RocheLimit regarding Great Fiend Spiders. In addition, generating a world with the highest number of civilizations ensure most of the civs survive to 60-80 years at least. The weaker civs have also been buffed to ensure they can be better challenges for three-four year old forts. I also pushed out an experimental fix on Badgermen and Jotunar to hopefully get them to equip weapons (but I think the bugs mentioned earlier were the result of a vanilla bug that spawns naked recruits during sieges).
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v14x: Spiders Now Crush Skulls
Post by: Shonai_Dweller on October 07, 2015, 08:19:20 am
More than 8000 Furies after v.high civ worldgen with new version. Much better.
Did you change Frogmen change to Frog Demons, or have they always been demons?
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v14x: Spiders Now Crush Skulls
Post by: darkflagrance on October 07, 2015, 10:04:58 am
More than 8000 Furies after v.high civ worldgen with new version. Much better.
Did you change Frogmen change to Frog Demons, or have they always been demons?

I buffed them to demons as part of their upgrade, because sieges now come later. They have traits similar to ye olde Frog Demons from 40d way back before 2010. If the reception is poor, I could change them back, but I'm trying them out for now.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v14x: Spiders Now Crush Skulls
Post by: CaptainLambcake on October 07, 2015, 09:17:53 pm
You were right dark, my apologies.  One question I do have though, every attack i've been on the receiving end of has had the attackers without armor or weapons.  They have managed to kill war animals, but are no chance for soldiers unless they severely outnumber them.  Is this supposed to be?
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v14x: Spiders Now Crush Skulls
Post by: darkflagrance on October 07, 2015, 09:50:18 pm
You were right dark, my apologies.  One question I do have though, every attack i've been on the receiving end of has had the attackers without armor or weapons.  They have managed to kill war animals, but are no chance for soldiers unless they severely outnumber them.  Is this supposed to be?

What civilization are these naked attackers from? Some of them are meant to be naked.

Also, I'm not sure if this is a newly introduced problem or a bug in the native version. I've been trying to pin down the cause of this problem to no avail.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v14x: Spiders Now Crush Skulls
Post by: CaptainLambcake on October 08, 2015, 02:37:20 pm
So far, raptormen, warwolves, and the panda people have all been naked.  As have the hellfire imps.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v14x: Spiders Now Crush Skulls
Post by: darkflagrance on October 08, 2015, 02:51:43 pm
So far, raptormen, warwolves, and the panda people have all been naked.  As have the hellfire imps.

Do some races still wear armor? Have goblins attacked you yet?

I need all the data I can to try to isolate the cause of this bug, which appears persistent. I'm going over the raws with a fine toothed comb.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v14x: Spiders Now Crush Skulls
Post by: CaptainLambcake on October 08, 2015, 08:06:10 pm
The only race with armor so far have been the ferric elves (hope I spelled it right) they had iron chestplate and a crossbow/bow/sword with quiver if appropriate.  No goblins yet.  I've been attacked mostly by raptors, and have yet to see any armor on any of them. 
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v14x: Spiders Now Crush Skulls
Post by: darkflagrance on October 11, 2015, 07:18:35 pm
I'm still working on the bug, but it's taking a break while I deal with upcoming exams and interviews. I am somewhat satisfied with the current version of the mod at least sending invaders regularly. I could release a workaround to make even naked invaders threatening for now.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v14x: Spiders Now Crush Skulls
Post by: Shonai_Dweller on October 12, 2015, 05:03:53 pm
Goblins all have plenty of armor and weapons. Some way into a new embark with 10 sets of evil neighbors, but besides a Fury thief, I've been attacked by nothing but goblins (starting at Autumn year 3, a new record for me).
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v14x: Spiders Now Crush Skulls
Post by: darkflagrance on October 14, 2015, 05:57:40 pm
After going through the raws again, I think I might have a suspicion as to what is causing naked invaders. If anyone who is experiencing this phenomenon can submit saves where this is occurring, and post which races are arriving naked, that would help out my examination greatly.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v14x: Spiders Now Crush Skulls
Post by: Shonai_Dweller on October 15, 2015, 07:55:55 am
Bunch of Tigermen attacking me right now. They're all armed but are wearing nothing but helmets and mail shirts. Is that usual? My archers tend to aim for the knees, so I doubt anyone will be left standing by the time they reach the gate.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v14x: Spiders Now Crush Skulls
Post by: darkflagrance on October 15, 2015, 11:40:20 pm
Bunch of Tigermen attacking me right now. They're all armed but are wearing nothing but helmets and mail shirts. Is that usual? My archers tend to aim for the knees, so I doubt anyone will be left standing by the time they reach the gate.

That's normal for now because typical fortress invaders don't use any other forms of armor. Enemy soldiers will at most wear pants, which barely afford protection and clutter up the loot piles.

That said, I did not intend White Tigermen to be the toughest of the invaders. Other invaders use a custom armor that protects the entire body, or are resistant(-ish) to arrows. That said, it would not be impossible for me to release a version of Fortress Defense where enemies all come wearing Full Plate. I could also make the units not bleed, by tacitly them turning into metal.

Pasting the following tags:
Code: [Select]
[TISSUE:IRON]
[TISSUE_NAME:iron:iron]
[TISSUE_MATERIAL:INORGANIC:IRON]
[MUSCULAR]
[FUNCTIONAL]
[STRUCTURAL]
[RELATIVE_THICKNESS:1]
[CONNECTS]
[TISSUE_SHAPE:LAYER]
[TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:IRON]
Below where you see
Code: [Select]
[BLOOD:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:BLOOD:LIQUID]Will toughen the skin of most creatures. Replacing their tissue entirely makes them into the equivalent of bronze colossi. I could release a mod that could be applied to your current fort, where all races are this tough.

Though, isn't the reward for training archers the slaughter of enemies weak to them?

edit: "that said" intensifies.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v14x: Spiders Now Crush Skulls
Post by: Shonai_Dweller on October 16, 2015, 03:31:54 am
Oh, not complaining. My archers love skewering exposed body parts. Their favorite is where a bolt slices an ear right off.

Was a tad dissapointed in the spiders in last version as they went down just as easily despite being 'challenge' opponents. But if they've got web shooting ability and steel cleaving teeth in this new version I'm looking forward to their next visit.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v14x: Spiders Now Crush Skulls
Post by: darkflagrance on October 16, 2015, 08:00:57 pm
Oh, not complaining. My archers love skewering exposed body parts. Their favorite is where a bolt slices an ear right off.

Was a tad dissapointed in the spiders in last version as they went down just as easily despite being 'challenge' opponents. But if they've got web shooting ability and steel cleaving teeth in this new version I'm looking forward to their next visit.

When I tried the spiders out against grandmaster marksdwarves, I quickly realized that my first mistake was not bringing enough marksdwarves.

Incidentally, overwriting the spiders in a save using the previous version with their current data should convert them to their upgraded form, if you want to salvage a fort from an earlier version.

On that note, I might also release a bronze-full plate mod (or maybe a steel-full plate mod) where all races are effectively using metal tissues and full armor.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v14x: Spiders Now Crush Skulls
Post by: RocheLimit on November 27, 2015, 02:50:35 pm
Just found something that may help with further debugging/improvement.

You know how DFHack has a labor-manager that you can access from within the game by pressing (l) from the citizen list?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I have found it also applies to the other tabs as well.  Here is the labor manager looking at my fort's death list
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It also applies to incoming sieges as well:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Thought it would be a good way to keep track of the average skills of attacking sieges.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v14x: Spiders Now Crush Skulls
Post by: darkflagrance on December 03, 2015, 01:16:23 pm
There are some issues in the current release version with placing many civs on the map. I'm waiting for bugfixes to commit to an update for this version.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v14x: Spiders Now Crush Skulls
Post by: Immortal-D on December 03, 2015, 08:52:10 pm
There are some issues in the current release version with placing many civs on the map. I'm waiting for bugfixes to commit to an update for this version.
Glad to know you're still working on this :)  I have resigned myself to kinda learning modding, since the few I use have long since been abandoned.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v14x: Spiders Now Crush Skulls
Post by: darkflagrance on December 04, 2015, 08:15:20 am
There are some issues in the current release version with placing many civs on the map. I'm waiting for bugfixes to commit to an update for this version.
Glad to know you're still working on this :)  I have resigned myself to kinda learning modding, since the few I use have long since been abandoned.

It's not too hard once you get the knack of it, and there were talks of programs would let you program through an interface instead of copy-pasting tags on these forums, although I don't know what happened to them. Just start with some other mod's files and combine or tweak to flavor.

Good luck!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm currently trying to deal with the world gen crashes when using this mod in the current version. Between the implicit limit on civs and the banning of sentients as food, the latest update seems absolutely inimical to this mod.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v14x: Spiders Now Crush Skulls
Post by: DrunkGamer on December 04, 2015, 09:23:53 am
There are some issues in the current release version with placing many civs on the map. I'm waiting for bugfixes to commit to an update for this version.
Glad to know you're still working on this :)  I have resigned myself to kinda learning modding, since the few I use have long since been abandoned.

It's not too hard once you get the knack of it, and there were talks of programs would let you program through an interface instead of copy-pasting tags on these forums, although I don't know what happened to them. Just start with some other mod's files and combine or tweak to flavor.

Good luck!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm currently trying to deal with the world gen crashes when using this mod in the current version. Between the implicit limit on civs and the banning of sentients as food, the latest update seems absolutely inimical to this mod.

Don't worry mate, it's probably going to be fixed tomorrow, or the day after tomorrow. Toady already fixed a crapload of things. If you need any help with anything, maybe adding some weaponry for the custom entities and stuff, I'm willing to help, as I'm also waiting for the patch so I can update my mod (It only adds 2 new civs, but I still want to way a bit before updating)
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v14x: Spiders Now Crush Skulls
Post by: flyteofheart on December 08, 2015, 10:46:28 pm
Now I have another reason to hope the bigger bug fixes are done soon hehe. Glad you havn't abandoned this!

Im excited to see how this plays in the new version with the much bigger sieges.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v14x: Spiders Now Crush Skulls
Post by: Naryar on December 13, 2015, 12:03:47 pm
Fortress Defense is supported again ? Yay !

I suppose it should work with 0.42 right ? The creature raws don't have been changed too much and I doubt the lack of instruments is going to affect sieging civs.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v14x: Spiders Now Crush Skulls
Post by: darkflagrance on December 14, 2015, 12:34:37 pm
Couple of issues actually with defunct tags and I don't know if it can gen with max civs yet without crashing. The Experimental Version in the original post works for x.40 though.

I am currently doing finals, and will try to update when they are out of the way after this week.
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v14x: Spiders Now Crush Skulls
Post by: Naryar on December 17, 2015, 04:16:21 pm
Yeah, it doesn't work D:

ADVENTURE_TIER seems to be unsupported now. But I don't think it is that. I wonder what else is causing crashes...

Edit: there appears to be a formatting error for the LOYALTY value of dark stranglers. Let's see if this is causing trouble...
Title: Re: [0.40.xx/0.34.xx] Fortress Defense Mod II v14x: Spiders Now Crush Skulls
Post by: darkflagrance on December 18, 2015, 04:59:27 am
Yeah, it doesn't work D:

ADVENTURE_TIER seems to be unsupported now. But I don't think it is that. I wonder what else is causing crashes...

Edit: there appears to be a formatting error for the LOYALTY value of dark stranglers. Let's see if this is causing trouble...

Thanks for finding the loyalty formatting error.

There still seem to be crashes that I'm working through at the moment.

Edit: The crash is caused by CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:UNTOWARD
Title: Re: [0.42.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: RickRollYou2 on December 18, 2015, 09:57:54 am
I see the new 42.03 versions are up on dffd--this makes me happy!

However, it should be noted that the Basic version of the .rar still contains files for the challenge and bonus races. :)
Title: Re: [0.42.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: darkflagrance on December 18, 2015, 02:34:34 pm
I see the new 42.03 versions are up on dffd--this makes me happy!

However, it should be noted that the Basic version of the .rar still contains files for the challenge and bonus races. :)

That is presently by my intent; without the corresponding entity files the challenge/bonus creature files should be inert. I'll double check though.
Title: Re: [0.42.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: Naryar on December 24, 2015, 09:46:37 am
I'm just saying that 0.42 may be overzealous... I got assaulted by 150 white tigermen and 20 horses. Far too Fun for a three-year fort with an average military.

Though my Fortress Defense is an updated 0.14 version, not with the new triggers. So it's probably the new version of DF, and not FD.
Title: Re: [0.42.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: darkflagrance on December 25, 2015, 09:58:03 am
I'm just saying that 0.42 may be overzealous... I got assaulted by 150 white tigermen and 20 horses. Far too Fun for a three-year fort with an average military.

Though my Fortress Defense is an updated 0.14 version, not with the new triggers. So it's probably the new version of DF, and not FD.

The new triggers were actually set about one tick later in the current version than in the previous version for the most part. That said, the current version basically does take sieges the opposite way from the last version. The enemies still come at about the same time, but with 10x the forces - and there don't appear to be settings that affect that.

A reasonable adaptation might be actively bringing 3 or 4 military trainers/exploiting danger rooms.
Title: Re: [0.42.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: Stragus on January 09, 2016, 02:51:18 pm
Thank you darkflagrance! This is an excellent mod, it certainly brings the challenge back into DF. :)

I have embarked near 14 civilizations (using challenge+bonus), and the first 2 years seemed way too quiet... but it became brutally difficult after that.

The War Elephants and Great Fiend Spiders are especially deadly, and they just keep coming! In comparison, the Ruthertaurs, Pandashis and Beak Wolves seemed like target practice.

I'll mention a few things in case that's unexpected:
- My first siege was 9 Beak Wolves, they ran away immediately (I already had 30 dwarves in military, half of my population)
- In a battle between War Elephants and Great Fiend Spiders (two simultaneous sieges), I noticed the spiders weren't using their web attack against the elephants.
- My meager tavern is receiving a ton of Badgerman visitors. Not that I mind, but it's somewhat unexpected.
- I have received a War Elephant pikeman visitor, except he didn't survive on the way to the tavern (another siege...).
- The library has never received a scholar visitor, none of my dwarves initially had any skill in writing/reading, and the caravan isn't selling books/codices (is the world so harsh that no one has time for intellectual matters?).
- I haven't really seen any large siege of weaker enemies, probably a coincidence.

It's a great mod. I wish the dwarf battle AI would be a little better, it makes it difficult to use complex tactics necessary to meet that challenge... :)
Title: Re: [0.42.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: darkflagrance on January 12, 2016, 01:08:30 pm
Your feedback is appreciated Stragus! I'm glad to see the invasions and challenge are functional. I'm actually a little surprised Ruthertaurs and Beakwolves still appear easy.

I need to know if any enemies that should be using equipment (Pandashi, Badgermen) are coming naked instead. From the sound of it, it seems the War Elephant Full Plate is doing its job :)

Perhaps the shoddy dwarf combat AI can be made up for by the waves of mercenary cannon fodder willing to die for the free drinks at the tavern? ;)
Title: Re: [0.42.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: Stragus on January 13, 2016, 04:45:56 am
Your feedback is appreciated Stagus! I'm glad to see the invasions and challenge are functional. I'm actually a little surprised Ruthertaurs and Beakwolves still appear easy.

To put things in context, I'm maintaining a military of 90 dwarves (50 melee, 40 markmen), over half the size of my population, with the added challenge of not using traps and defending an outdoor open courtyard. And it's really challenging.

Still, I find myself fighting the stupidity of my dwarves just as much (can't order to stand ground, they charge anything that comes into sight, charge through intended tactical chokepoints, can't disengage/retreat, marksmen rushing to club enemies with their crossbows, etc.). I can't blame the mod for any of that though. :)

I need to know if any enemies that should be using equipment (Pandashi, Badgermen) are coming naked instead. From the sound of it, it seems the War Elephant Full Plate is doing its job :)

I inspected the save backups made before each battle, here's my observations:
Pandashis: Naked, no weapon, no armor in both sieges, they can still punch hard though
Naga: Equipped (weapon + shield + shirt + helm), they like bismuth bronze
Dingo men: Equipped (weapon + shield + shirt + helm), they like bronze and iron
Ruthertaurs: Equipped (weapon + shield + shirt + helm), they like bismuth bronze
Beak Wolves: No equipment, as intended I assume
Giant Fiend Spiders: No equipment, as intended I assume, they are incredibly dangerous
Jotunar: Equipped (weapon + shield + shirt + helm), they like steel and bronze. These guys burned down the whole map! Along with 8-10 dwarves. And one of them somehow "teleported" through the wall next to my marksmen (there was a roof, he couldn't have climbed over).
War Elephants: Equipped in full plate. They are terrifying.

I have never fought badgermen, they seem rather friendly and prefer to flood my tavern instead. The ones at the tavern have no equipment.

Perhaps the shoddy dwarf combat AI can be made up for by the waves of mercenary cannon fodder willing to die for the free drinks at the tavern? ;)

Eh, I'm counting on regular immigration waves to replace lost dwarves... :) A frontal fight against War Elephants or Giant Fiend Spiders can wipe out 60 dwarves easily. Only perfect execution of tactics with chokepoints can get that number down to 10 or so. It is brutal.
Title: Re: [0.42.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: darkflagrance on January 13, 2016, 09:41:54 am
I need to know if any enemies that should be using equipment (Pandashi, Badgermen) are coming naked instead. From the sound of it, it seems the War Elephant Full Plate is doing its job :)

I inspected the save backups made before each battle, here's my observations:
Pandashis: Naked, no weapon, no armor in both sieges, they can still punch hard though
Naga: Equipped (weapon + shield + shirt + helm), they like bismuth bronze
Dingo men: Equipped (weapon + shield + shirt + helm), they like bronze and iron
Ruthertaurs: Equipped (weapon + shield + shirt + helm), they like bismuth bronze
Beak Wolves: No equipment, as intended I assume
Giant Fiend Spiders: No equipment, as intended I assume, they are incredibly dangerous
Jotunar: Equipped (weapon + shield + shirt + helm), they like steel and bronze. These guys burned down the whole map! Along with 8-10 dwarves. And one of them somehow "teleported" through the wall next to my marksmen (there was a roof, he couldn't have climbed over).
War Elephants: Equipped in full plate. They are terrifying.

I have never fought badgermen, they seem rather friendly and prefer to flood my tavern instead. The ones at the tavern have no equipment.

Perhaps the shoddy dwarf combat AI can be made up for by the waves of mercenary cannon fodder willing to die for the free drinks at the tavern? ;)

Eh, I'm counting on regular immigration waves to replace lost dwarves... :) A frontal fight against War Elephants or Giant Fiend Spiders can wipe out 60 dwarves easily. Only perfect execution of tactics with chokepoints can get that number down to 10 or so. It is brutal.

The friendly badgermen drunks sound adorable! I did fear that my fixes to their lack of equipment had not taken; I'm going to have to do some more testing. Thanks for the confirmation!

I too have found that Great Fiend Spiders and War Elephants are incredibly punishing. I can recall test sieges where entire squads of champions and weaponlords threw away their lives because I misplanned an assault on their formations. I assume handling them will be easier soon considering Toady is working on the Army Arc at the moment and should be doing bugfixes on military behavior.
Title: Re: [0.42.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: Stragus on January 13, 2016, 02:13:30 pm
The friendly badgermen drunks sound adorable! I did fear that my fixes to their lack of equipment had not taken; I'm going to have to do some more testing. Thanks for the confirmation!

As some of them turned less friendly (because a fight of drunks ended up in the death of a badgerman?), I can now confirm that badgermen don't arrive with any equipment either.

I too have found that Great Fiend Spiders and War Elephants are incredibly punishing.

Absolutely, never before have I found the capital letter 'E' so absolutely terrifying!
http://www.rayforce.net/df001.png
Title: Re: [0.42.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: Tatjam on January 13, 2016, 02:40:50 pm
Is it intended that visitors destroy stuff at your fortress? A Rime Giantess thief visitor toppled the carpenter workshop, I sended my military to kill him just in case...

Also, any idea why all visitors from the mod are "thieves"?

Awesome mod, sieges are much more fun now  :)

Cheers!
Title: Re: [0.42.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: darkflagrance on January 13, 2016, 11:11:59 pm
Is it intended that visitors destroy stuff at your fortress? A Rime Giantess thief visitor toppled the carpenter workshop, I sended my military to kill him just in case...

Also, any idea why all visitors from the mod are "thieves"?

Awesome mod, sieges are much more fun now  :)

Cheers!

The Fortress Defense Mod civs are designated as theives to make them always hostile to Dwarves and related civilizations.

Some of the Fortress Defense civs take pleasure in destroying buildings; they have the inherent tendency to do so as creatures due to BUILDING_DESTROYER. You should probably execute any such visitors you see or restrict their movement/access to critical structures.

The friendly badgermen drunks sound adorable! I did fear that my fixes to their lack of equipment had not taken; I'm going to have to do some more testing. Thanks for the confirmation!

As some of them turned less friendly (because a fight of drunks ended up in the death of a badgerman?), I can now confirm that badgermen don't arrive with any equipment either.

I too have found that Great Fiend Spiders and War Elephants are incredibly punishing.

Absolutely, never before have I found the capital letter 'E' so absolutely terrifying!
http://www.rayforce.net/df001.png

I'm going to take another look at the equipment issue when I can. It's a bug I haven't been able to address so far. Still, the otherwise naked civs have been augmented with additional toughness to tide them over through their hopefully temporary nakedness.
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: Gotham123 on January 22, 2016, 07:37:52 pm
Hi I love this mod and all the civilizations it brings. and I just want to know one thing. How do I edit the raws so I get Beak wolf visitors at my tavern? and mercenaries also (and pretty much every single non-talking civs like Giant Fiend Spiders) I dream of having a Military full of wolves.
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: darkflagrance on January 22, 2016, 11:57:59 pm
Hi I love this mod and all the civilizations it brings. and I just want to know one thing. How do I edit the raws so I get Beak wolf visitors at my tavern? and mercenaries also (and pretty much every single non-talking civs like Giant Fiend Spiders) I dream of having a Military full of wolves.

Try adding [INTELLIGENT] to their raws
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: Isaac23 on January 26, 2016, 12:56:29 pm
I have this mod and I'm about 4 years in a fort with a bunch of mod civs, I've seen pandari and ferric elf thieves once but no sieges. How long does it take?
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: DVNO on January 27, 2016, 03:26:05 am
I have this mod and I'm about 4 years in a fort with a bunch of mod civs, I've seen pandari and ferric elf thieves once but no sieges. How long does it take?

It really does depend a lot on the luck of the draw. Placing your embark closer to hostile baddies always increases the odds, but there is so much you can do if your neighbors have a low population or don't feel like getting their WAAGH on. 

If nothing is happening I'd gen a new world that is smaller sized. This'll cause more interaction.
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: Isaac23 on January 27, 2016, 03:33:56 am
I'm using 42.04, does that matter? Also, my civ screen has all of the mod civs as at peace with my dwarves.
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: darkflagrance on January 27, 2016, 08:33:33 am
I'm using 42.04, does that matter? Also, my civ screen has all of the mod civs as at peace with my dwarves.

Feel free to upload your save so I can check it out.

If there are thieves, it should mean that sieges will eventually take place. Dwarf Fortress can be a little random when it comes to enemies arriving.
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: Isaac23 on January 27, 2016, 01:59:25 pm
http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=11719

here you go, I'll keep playing and see what happens.
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: darkflagrance on January 28, 2016, 07:56:05 pm
I've downloaded the save and am checking it out.
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: Isaac23 on January 29, 2016, 04:18:39 am
Hope you like my fort. The very first pandashi thief punched my militia commander so hard he shattered his upper spine. Dudes still training and good to go.

edit: Dude, I made a new fort in a new world and I'm getting like pandashi men martial artists and ferric elf visitors, it's neat. No attacks yet.
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: darkflagrance on January 31, 2016, 09:34:27 pm
I'm still in the process of letting your fort auto-run on my computer Isaac23 ;) Unfortunately my dinky computer takes quite a while to process a year.

When I left the fort to check the enemy status, it did say they were hostile. I've started exporting ridiculous amounts of wealth to encourage invaders. One workaround for now might be to delete INTELLIGENT and replace it with CAN_LEARN (just do a mass replace for every instance of INTELLIGENT in the fortress defense creature files).
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: Putnam on January 31, 2016, 10:21:11 pm
wealth exportation doesn't work in 0.42.04
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: darkflagrance on February 01, 2016, 01:31:00 am
wealth exportation doesn't work in 0.42.04

Yeah, I just noticed after I made that post ;_;

I did get a siege in the test fort I started in Isaac23's version, it just took three years. It also lasted for about 3 seconds. This is not yet beyond my expectations for the current version however, especially considering exports are...bugged...

Gonna let it chug at 30 fps for another year or two.
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: Isaac23 on February 01, 2016, 08:12:06 am
Thanks for your effort.
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: darkflagrance on February 01, 2016, 05:01:06 pm
Thanks for your effort.

Please keep me updated. At the moment, my current computing resources aren't enough for me to bug hunt to my satisfaction, and any information that might help iron out inconsistencies in the mod's behavior is greatly appreciated! :)
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: Gotham123 on February 02, 2016, 12:18:49 pm
Hullo I have a question, How much wealth do I require to have my fort burnt down by siegers?. and for each race too. this is because I haven't had a single siege yet (I have 70 dwarves at the moment) and I am wondering if my wealth has anything to do with it.
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: darkflagrance on February 02, 2016, 12:34:47 pm
Hullo I have a question, How much wealth do I require to have my fort burnt down by siegers?. and for each race too. this is because I haven't had a single siege yet (I have 70 dwarves at the moment) and I am wondering if my wealth has anything to do with it.

Suspiciously, it seems as if wealth triggers are not properly working in this version, based on my current testing. So far test sieges have arrived after achieving 80 population.
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: Gotham123 on February 02, 2016, 12:56:18 pm
Hullo I have a question, How much wealth do I require to have my fort burnt down by siegers?. and for each race too. this is because I haven't had a single siege yet (I have 70 dwarves at the moment) and I am wondering if my wealth has anything to do with it.

Suspiciously, it seems as if wealth triggers are not properly working in this version, based on my current testing. So far test sieges have arrived after achieving 80 population.

even tier one sieges like Dark stranglers?
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: darkflagrance on February 02, 2016, 01:32:42 pm
Hullo I have a question, How much wealth do I require to have my fort burnt down by siegers?. and for each race too. this is because I haven't had a single siege yet (I have 70 dwarves at the moment) and I am wondering if my wealth has anything to do with it.

Suspiciously, it seems as if wealth triggers are not properly working in this version, based on my current testing. So far test sieges have arrived after achieving 80 population.

even tier one sieges like Dark stranglers?

I'm worried that might be the case.
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on February 02, 2016, 02:08:46 pm
I think you may be right as well. My fort is several years old, next to ten hostile civs. I had one Ferric Elf and one Pandashi ambush in the first two years, despite a thriving platinum doodad industry. Once my population hit eighty I got a vanilla goblin siege, just a normal low end one with a dozen crossbowmen. They died swiftly and horribly. I will continue to post as I am attacked by other entities, if that happens.
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: darkflagrance on February 02, 2016, 08:38:48 pm
The good news is that I received another Dark Strangler siege, so the invasions are still working. I might release a tweaked version that specifies the progress triggers in greater detail nonetheless.

Unfortunately for the Dark Stranglers, they were greeted by the sight of the the literally entire map on fire from grass to sky, and the remains of my military stumbling out of the flames, burning to death from fighting a mountain titan. They expired in short order in a melted fat sort of way.
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: darkflagrance on February 05, 2016, 04:32:52 am
It's looking like location of the fort and age of the world are both supplementary factors in determining invader activity. The best I can say is to try to play in younger worlds before enemy civs have gone extinct, and in regions in close proximity to enemies. I'm also working on changes that will hopefully guarantee more hostile enemy activity.

The bug that causes goblins to occasionally flee instantly also affects fortress defense races occasionally.
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: Isaac23 on February 06, 2016, 08:57:18 am
I made a new world a got a dark strangler siege after a few years, but I'm only getting badgermen visitors it seems, no entertainers or mercs. Normal?
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: darkflagrance on February 06, 2016, 03:07:07 pm
I made a new world a got a dark strangler siege after a few years, but I'm only getting badgermen visitors it seems, no entertainers or mercs. Normal?

It's random, apparently. I think it may depend on whether the civs are within reach. Dwarf fortress is doing a lot of funny stuff with world generation/simulation that hasn't been fully revealed.

So I did eventually manage to receive a badgerman siege in the world you sent me to bugtest, six years into the embark. Also, I started out at peace with badgermen, but they came to attack me eventually anyway. I guess that means they aren't broken, just far away sometimes. Given that sieges still appear to be slow and unpredictable in this version, I'm going to reverse the changes I made that made sieges come a little later in the current version. Fortress Defense civs will have more tags that make them hostile as well to encourage them to attack the player.

I must highly, highly suggest making sure at least ten fortress defense civilizations have access to a player fortress to guarantee a viable experience. My current strategy to overwhelm the problematic warfare mechanics is through sheer numbers.
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: Gotham123 on February 07, 2016, 11:38:40 am
here is a suggestion

My suggestion: make the sieges happen earlier before the whole 80 Pop. this way we don't have to wait hours before fun starts happening
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: darkflagrance on February 07, 2016, 07:17:40 pm
here is a suggestion

My suggestion: make the sieges happen earlier before the whole 80 Pop. this way we don't have to wait hours before fun starts happening

The triggers I set already do that. Dwarf fortress seems to ignore them. This is why I am exploring other hostility triggers.
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: Crashmaster on February 08, 2016, 06:52:08 pm
In a 42.04 game carried on in 42.05; had dark stranglers fine pre-update I think, now a recent siege of warwolves + raptor women and just now one of greater fiend spiders (not so upset about this one disappearing actually but it defined the trend) disappear after one tick on the edge of the screen. Goblins have still been coming with trolls and beak dogs just fine.

I tried re-installing the objects files but no difference and that was the end of my theories on the issue.

edit; great fiend spider snatchers do persist on the map normally
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: darkflagrance on February 08, 2016, 08:59:03 pm
In a 42.04 game carried on in 42.05; had dark stranglers fine pre-update I think, now a recent siege of warwolves + raptor women and just now one of greater fiend spiders (not so upset about this one disappearing actually but it defined the trend) disappear after one tick on the edge of the screen. Goblins have still been coming with trolls and beak dogs just fine.

I tried re-installing the objects files but no difference and that was the end of my theories on the issue.

edit; great fiend spider snatchers do persist on the map normally

Since goblins seem to work, one potential workaround I have is rewriting all of the entities to match the goblin ones and then replacing the creatures. It might do in a pinch until the disappearing siege bug is dissected and addressed, if it ever is.
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: Isaac23 on February 08, 2016, 08:59:31 pm
(http://i65.tinypic.com/280qtcn.jpg)

See, they're at peace with us. We got two thieves from them once. I have a dickload of mod civ visitors at my tavern. Some of them, the rime giant or whatever for instance, destroy any constructions they can get their hands on as soon as they walk on the map, but aren't outright hostile. I dub them "Gunthers" and kill them before they can break any more of my bottles.

The goblin civ showed up with a bunch of mod civ people with them, but it was only like 15 of them. I know the first siege is always small so I'll wait it out. Still, disappointed with the lack of face melting fun.
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: darkflagrance on February 08, 2016, 10:15:50 pm
Isaac23, I suspect that even though the screen shows them at peace, they are capable of sieging and will change to a war stance when they get around to it (once the triggers are filled?) Notice that you are at peace with the Gobbos as well, but they are an always hostile race. my mistake

Even so, do not worry. I'm planning a major rewrite of the civilizations in an attempt to circumvent the vanishing siege bug. When I'm past work this week, I'll get around to it.
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: Isaac23 on February 09, 2016, 04:22:12 am
I'm not at peace with the goblins, the tiger men are.
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on February 14, 2016, 11:04:45 am
A Greater Badger Man bard has arrived at my fortress and is now leading half the population in absolutely rocking out with both dance and song. A honey badger man compliments this with his chanting. This is freakin awesome. I hope the bards don't become hostile when the inevitable sieges start, because I love the idea of badger men boogieing down under the ground...

Also, can't wait on next release. MOAR SIEGES!
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: darkflagrance on February 15, 2016, 06:00:19 am
A Greater Badger Man bard has arrived at my fortress and is now leading half the population in absolutely rocking out with both dance and song. A honey badger man compliments this with his chanting. This is freakin awesome. I hope the bards don't become hostile when the inevitable sieges start, because I love the idea of badger men boogieing down under the ground...

Also, can't wait on next release. MOAR SIEGES!

Well, I can say that one of the sieges in a test fort for the next version was accompanied by my off-duty guards conducting an unsanctioned massacre of some of the entertainers in the tavern for "being of the enemy's civ". So you may want to put down some newspaper.

I have ironed out some issues with the entities, and am currently working on revamping the creatures themselves. Disappearing sieges and entity hostility appear to be resolved so far.
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on February 15, 2016, 10:09:38 pm
Well, I can say that one of the sieges in a test fort for the next version was accompanied by my off-duty guards conducting an unsanctioned massacre of some of the entertainers in the tavern for "being of the enemy's civ". So you may want to put down some newspaper.

I have ironed out some issues with the entities, and am currently working on revamping the creatures themselves. Disappearing sieges and entity hostility appear to be resolved so far.

Awesome, I can't wait. While you are in there mucking around could you see about making visitors no longer destroy buildings? I have had to disallow migrants to my tavern because keeping out the building destroyers was taking a huge amount of micro-management. Fortunately all the badger men stayed. All fifty of them. For the past five years. They are just... dancing and being social. If they ever do go hostile this is going to be fairly horrific.
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: Hoooooooar on February 16, 2016, 02:31:59 pm
I also have the disappearing sieges joint.  Also no Human caravans never came..... lots of humans in the bar, no human caravans.  The elves only came once too.  THey bring all teh good animals, COME BACK ELVES. 

Duno if that is a bug here or just in 42 in general.  Also my bar has 4 war elephants in it.  Wonder how this is gonna turn out.  under "civilizations" menu i only have dark stragglers, gobbies, and beak wolfs, none of the more powerful bros are there.  But i do have a wolf thing, multiple elephants, some humans and elves all hanging out at the bar.
 
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: darkflagrance on February 16, 2016, 07:19:28 pm
I also have the disappearing sieges joint.  Also no Human caravans never came..... lots of humans in the bar, no human caravans.  The elves only came once too.  THey bring all teh good animals, COME BACK ELVES. 

Duno if that is a bug here or just in 42 in general.  Also my bar has 4 war elephants in it.  Wonder how this is gonna turn out.  under "civilizations" menu i only have dark stragglers, gobbies, and beak wolfs, none of the more powerful bros are there.  But i do have a wolf thing, multiple elephants, some humans and elves all hanging out at the bar.
 

Humans caravans not arriving and disappearing sieges appear to be bugs that can occur in the vanilla version as well, sadly. If you paste [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POPULATION:1] in the human entry under in the entity_default, you should be able to trigger them even in an active save. Also, if you can let me know which sieges are vanishing, that may be potentially helpful.

Strangely, none of my test forts ever have Fortress Defense races appear in bars, so although I am fairly certain I know why this behavior occurs (conquest of FD races by races friendly to dwarves) I've never been able to test my hypothesis.
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: Hoooooooar on February 16, 2016, 08:07:16 pm
I also have the disappearing sieges joint.  Also no Human caravans never came..... lots of humans in the bar, no human caravans.  The elves only came once too.  THey bring all teh good animals, COME BACK ELVES. 

Duno if that is a bug here or just in 42 in general.  Also my bar has 4 war elephants in it.  Wonder how this is gonna turn out.  under "civilizations" menu i only have dark stragglers, gobbies, and beak wolfs, none of the more powerful bros are there.  But i do have a wolf thing, multiple elephants, some humans and elves all hanging out at the bar.
 

Humans caravans not arriving and disappearing sieges appear to be bugs that can occur in the vanilla version as well, sadly. If you paste [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POPULATION:1] in the human entry under in the entity_default, you should be able to trigger them even in an active save. Also, if you can let me know which sieges are vanishing, that may be potentially helpful.

Strangely, none of my test forts ever have Fortress Defense races appear in bars, so although I am fairly certain I know why this behavior occurs (conquest of FD races by races friendly to dwarves) I've never been able to test my hypothesis.

hahha, every single one of the races is in the bar now (http://imgur.com/BpsVDHu), everyone but the stranglers, because they DID invade early on.  There are absolute hordes of goblins invading though, 50+ on their last try.   Also the King is now a resident in my fortress, he inherited the throne, although we still aren't the capital, or even a duchy..... played a lot of dwarf fortress, never seen that happen before.  When you say to "If you paste [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POPULATION:1] in the human entry under in the entity_default, you should be able to trigger them even in an active save".  That is greek to me, is that in a txt file, in DFhack?   
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: darkflagrance on February 16, 2016, 09:10:13 pm
See the following topic for more info on the hymans not arriving bug. You can also fix it with dfhack http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155423.15
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: Legionaries on February 18, 2016, 12:31:40 am
Thank you for updating this mod.  It is my favorite.  Downloading!
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: Hoooooooar on February 18, 2016, 05:03:45 pm
Well i've let the game run for a long time now its approaching FPS death because of how popular my bar is.  I started with every single race in the neighbor screen on embark.  Only the dark stragglers have invaded, the werewolves? were one that have approached the border twice but ran away each time.  The Tavern has an army of visitors now from every single neighbor though, i even killed some of them to try to get them hostile, but its not happening.  Poor elephant shoulda known something was up when 40 armored dwarfs stormed in and executed him.

3 gobbie sieges, 1 really strange one that had 5 dwarfs, 3 humans, 2 dark stranglers a few naga men too.  They came in and just hung ou t at the border, they were quickly dispatched, as soon as their first person died they all ran away.  I was also next to a tower and the undead also run away on sieges, almost forgot that.  Hope that helps out in some way.

Oh also kill all frogmen onsite, they just come into the tavern and start breaking everything, then they roam around your fort breaking everything.  Guys are dicks.
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: darkflagrance on February 19, 2016, 02:13:22 am
Well i've let the game run for a long time now its approaching FPS death because of how popular my bar is.  I started with every single race in the neighbor screen on embark.  Only the dark stragglers have invaded, the werewolves? were one that have approached the border twice but ran away each time.  The Tavern has an army of visitors now from every single neighbor though, i even killed some of them to try to get them hostile, but its not happening.  Poor elephant shoulda known something was up when 40 armored dwarfs stormed in and executed him.

3 gobbie sieges, 1 really strange one that had 5 dwarfs, 3 humans, 2 dark stranglers a few naga men too.  They came in and just hung ou t at the border, they were quickly dispatched, as soon as their first person died they all ran away.  I was also next to a tower and the undead also run away on sieges, almost forgot that.  Hope that helps out in some way.

Oh also kill all frogmen onsite, they just come into the tavern and start breaking everything, then they roam around your fort breaking everything.  Guys are dicks.


I've isolated the likely source of this dissatisfying behavior to the creature files right now. Unfortunately, I can't get any further than that, so the only solution I've seen is to rewrite all of the creature files. This is taking me a while, but I hope to be done with most of it, if not all of it, by the end of this weekend, unless something comes up.
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on February 19, 2016, 05:19:32 pm
Quote
I've isolated the likely source of this dissatisfying behavior to the creature files right now. Unfortunately, I can't get any further than that, so the only solution I've seen is to rewrite all of the creature files. This is taking me a while, but I hope to be done with most of it, if not all of it, by the end of this weekend, unless something comes up.

Soldier on sir. I am playing a fort where half the sieges run away, but due to a catastrophic mass casualty event that wiped out all thirty of my trained Dwarves I'm still barely hanging on. Dark stranglers are a joke until 150 of them show up at once and you have 20 well equipped but zero skill militia. Lets just say I don't feel shorted in the challenge department even as-is.

Also I sill have like sixty dancing badger-men and they are cratering my FPS every time they start a new dance but I just don't have the heart to kill the little buggers. They are just so merry and cheerful!
Title: Re: [0.42.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v15: Can War Elephants Croon Sweet Melodies?
Post by: darkflagrance on February 21, 2016, 11:26:22 pm
Quote
I've isolated the likely source of this dissatisfying behavior to the creature files right now. Unfortunately, I can't get any further than that, so the only solution I've seen is to rewrite all of the creature files. This is taking me a while, but I hope to be done with most of it, if not all of it, by the end of this weekend, unless something comes up.

Soldier on sir. I am playing a fort where half the sieges run away, but due to a catastrophic mass casualty event that wiped out all thirty of my trained Dwarves I'm still barely hanging on. Dark stranglers are a joke until 150 of them show up at once and you have 20 well equipped but zero skill militia. Lets just say I don't feel shorted in the challenge department even as-is.

Also I sill have like sixty dancing badger-men and they are cratering my FPS every time they start a new dance but I just don't have the heart to kill the little buggers. They are just so merry and cheerful!

Thank you for the encouragement!

I wish I had good news right now, but the fix I tried currently still does not work. I'm going to have to push the next version to later this week.

Edit: I found the source of the bug. Natural skills prevent units from equipping things not related to their highest natural skill.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v16: Dances with Warwolves
Post by: darkflagrance on February 24, 2016, 09:55:26 am
The update is finally ready.

---Changes for 0.16 R2

-Removed natural skills that prevented armor from being worn
-Tightened down the metal access of the bonus civs
-A couple of civs are now using steel tissues
-Broadened Full Plate access
-Tweaked dodging, seasonal arrivals, and made civs arrive earlier
-Many Fortress Defense enemies can now be recruited
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v16: Dances with Warwolves
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on February 24, 2016, 11:06:57 am
Just as I was getting the badger-man removal magma chamber ready too. There were just so many of them, and they always hung out in temples and refused to petition for residence... the obvious fix was to make only one temple they could visit, dedicate it to the god of death and nightmares, and then prepare... special plumbing leading into it.

A couple questions:

- Do visiting building destroyers still hulk out and topple everything while remaining non-hostile?
- Did you get the vanishing siege bug? I know you were talking about it above but never saw a yes/no.

Also, thanks for the new version. Time to gen up a new world and see how long I can last; I love this mod because it's impossible for things to go stale.   
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v16: Dances with Warwolves
Post by: darkflagrance on February 24, 2016, 12:06:18 pm
Just as I was getting the badger-man removal magma chamber ready too. There were just so many of them, and they always hung out in temples and refused to petition for residence... the obvious fix was to make only one temple they could visit, dedicate it to the god of death and nightmares, and then prepare... special plumbing leading into it.

A couple questions:

- Do visiting building destroyers still hulk out and topple everything while remaining non-hostile?
- Did you get the vanishing siege bug? I know you were talking about it above but never saw a yes/no.

Also, thanks for the new version. Time to gen up a new world and see how long I can last; I love this mod because it's impossible for things to go stale.

Yes, after having my own inn filled with armies of Greater Badgerman thieves I myself thought it would be cool to be able to recruit Fortress Defense races, so right now running the latest version I have my very own Badgerman Bladebiter squad. I will fight the badgermen with my own badgermen!

I got vanishing sieges once in a while, but it doesn't seem to affect all of a civ's sieges anymore. I used to get them a lot when I started initial testing, and before I switched to 42.06, but my later test forts did not experience more than 1 vanishing siege each.

Visiting building destroyers still destroy things. I recommend you have your military kill order them (this is what I do). If I stop visiting building destroyers from destroying your buildings, then the sieging ones won't be able to destroy buildings either.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v16: Dances with Warwolves
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on February 26, 2016, 12:17:10 am
Uh, badger men aren't so cute anymore. About eighty of them showed up. I had to fight, because of cats and doors and levers... One soldier's head ended up on the roof of the archery tower, three stories up. I had to deconstruct stuff to get it down. Time to replace my losses.... with badger men!
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v16: Dances with Warwolves
Post by: darkflagrance on February 26, 2016, 04:04:24 pm
Uh, badger men aren't so cute anymore. About eighty of them showed up. I had to fight, because of cats and doors and levers... One soldier's head ended up on the roof of the archery tower, three stories up. I had to deconstruct stuff to get it down. Time to replace my losses.... with badger men!

I'm glad to hear that the badger men have finally become purveyors of !!!FUN!!!  :D

I'm currently working on the next minor update to this version. I'm making all the late civs arrive sooner, because there still seem to be issues with arrivals in this version. I'm also going to need to buff Stranglers - they're out of place in the current version. Also, I'm testing an interaction to make mounts fearless.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v16: Dances with Warwolves
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on February 26, 2016, 06:19:05 pm
I wouldn't be so quick about the stranglers needing a buff. It might just be my world, but they arrive in HUGE numbers compared to the other attackers so far. Like most are 40ish with the above mentioned Badger Man assault being very large at 80. Dark Stranglers started off at 120+ and have only gotten more numerous, and it makes them threatening in a whole different way. They literally overwhelmed my trap belt Zerg style with bodies clogging everything and still had the numbers to overwhelm and wipe out a squad that got isolated.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v16: Dances with Warwolves
Post by: darkflagrance on February 27, 2016, 02:38:49 am
I wouldn't be so quick about the stranglers needing a buff. It might just be my world, but they arrive in HUGE numbers compared to the other attackers so far. Like most are 40ish with the above mentioned Badger Man assault being very large at 80. Dark Stranglers started off at 120+ and have only gotten more numerous, and it makes them threatening in a whole different way. They literally overwhelmed my trap belt Zerg style with bodies clogging everything and still had the numbers to overwhelm and wipe out a squad that got isolated.

After the current testing round, I decided you were right. I also decided to prevent mercenary races from being building destroyers.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v16: Dances with Warwolves
Post by: Psilobe on March 04, 2016, 05:04:16 pm
Can war elephants climb? I have a snipersnest overlooking my entrance but right before an ambush there was a tree infront of it and one elephant got through to them somehow.

So far fairly meek attacks that I havent had any problem but if these types of attacks become more common then I will be ground to pieces.

This mod is awesome. Great amount of variety.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v16: Dances with Warwolves
Post by: darkflagrance on March 04, 2016, 06:53:20 pm
Can war elephants climb? I have a snipersnest overlooking my entrance but right before an ambush there was a tree infront of it and one elephant got through to them somehow.

So far fairly meek attacks that I havent had any problem but if these types of attacks become more common then I will be ground to pieces.

This mod is awesome. Great amount of variety.

This is the answer:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Even no-skill climber goblins can climb the sides of towers, so I'm not surprised other races can pull it off.

Glad to hear you are enjoying the mod! I appreciate your feedback. I'm actually working on ramping up the threat and variety even more for the next release.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Dances with Warwolves
Post by: darkflagrance on March 08, 2016, 10:57:27 pm
I posted a new update that buffs Warwolves, Furies, and Dark Stranglers (the latter only a little), and nerfs Great Fiend Spiders, and tries to address the problem of fleeing mounts.

Here is the full changelog:

---Changes for 0.17 R3

-Spurring: makes animals that accompany sieges gain NOFEAR
-Warwolves have custom profession names and can turn others into Warwolves, also should have steel teeth and claws
-Furies use steel equipment, experimenting with skill learn rates
-Nerfed spiders to be easier to wound and fire webs less often, but have in-built wrestling
-Gave Dark Stranglers natural dodging skill
-Replaced scimitars with long swords for anything that used them
-Some removal of redundant/obsolete tokens
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Dances with Warwolves
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on March 09, 2016, 11:38:58 am
I posted a new update that buffs Warwolves, Furies, and Dark Stranglers (the latter only a little), and nerfs Great Fiend Spiders, and tries to address the problem of fleeing mounts.

Here is the full changelog:

---Changes for 0.17 R3

-Spurring: makes animals that accompany sieges gain NOFEAR
-Warwolves have custom profession names and can turn others into Warwolves, also should have steel teeth and claws
-Furies use steel equipment, experimenting with skill learn rates
-Nerfed spiders to be easier to wound and fire webs less often, but have in-built wrestling
-Gave Dark Stranglers natural dodging skill
-Replaced scimitars with long swords for anything that used them
-Some removal of redundant/obsolete tokens

Did you make mercenary races lose the building destroyer tag? I know you mentioned you were going to do that above, and this directly impacts my ability to see how many helmets an Ettin will wear. 
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Dances with Warwolves
Post by: darkflagrance on March 09, 2016, 04:33:32 pm
I posted a new update that buffs Warwolves, Furies, and Dark Stranglers (the latter only a little), and nerfs Great Fiend Spiders, and tries to address the problem of fleeing mounts.

Here is the full changelog:

---Changes for 0.17 R3

-Spurring: makes animals that accompany sieges gain NOFEAR
-Warwolves have custom profession names and can turn others into Warwolves, also should have steel teeth and claws
-Furies use steel equipment, experimenting with skill learn rates
-Nerfed spiders to be easier to wound and fire webs less often, but have in-built wrestling
-Gave Dark Stranglers natural dodging skill
-Replaced scimitars with long swords for anything that used them
-Some removal of redundant/obsolete tokens

Did you make mercenary races lose the building destroyer tag? I know you mentioned you were going to do that above, and this directly impacts my ability to see how many helmets an Ettin will wear.

Ettins are not mercenary races and cannot petition for long-term residency. I did remove it from other races like Frogmen that are capable of actually joining your fort.

You can however disable buildingdestroyer even during an active fortress save simply by deleting the BUILDINGDESTROYER:2 tag from the creature_fdchallenge.txt file. Jotuns are the first race there, and you should see the tag the moment you open the file. All you have to do is remove the tag entirely, or just the brackets around the tag.

In fact, here is the the resultant edited txt. You can just paste it into creature_fdchallenge.txt, making sure that any previous contents were erased first.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on March 09, 2016, 06:17:40 pm
Thank you very much. Also, just so you know there is one thing that seems to be working, my current fort (not with today's update, I'm riding this one into the ground) was just attacked by badger men with war dogs. The war dogs worked as intended. So did the adamantine battle axes. This, coupled with the frog men, the furies, the stranglers, the multiple fire imp ambushes, the vanilla goblins, and the general genocidal madness that the caverns have become has lead me to create something entirely new in my seven years of playing DF. A corpse stockpile I can automatically purge with magma. Dumping all the corpses was taking too long.

Maybe I will make a minecart system to launch them at my enemies as a weapon or something...
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: darkflagrance on March 10, 2016, 12:15:38 am
Thank you very much. Also, just so you know there is one thing that seems to be working, my current fort (not with today's update, I'm riding this one into the ground) was just attacked by badger men with war dogs. The war dogs worked as intended. So did the adamantine battle axes. This, coupled with the frog men, the furies, the stranglers, the multiple fire imp ambushes, the vanilla goblins, and the general genocidal madness that the caverns have become has lead me to create something entirely new in my seven years of playing DF. A corpse stockpile I can automatically purge with magma. Dumping all the corpses was taking too long.

Maybe I will make a minecart system to launch them at my enemies as a weapon or something...

I've actually been considering making enemy corpses evaporate: giving them all ITEMCORPSE:VAPORSTONE so that they turn into puffs of smoke upon death. It requires temperature to work though, and I can't find a solution for the limbs. Plus, if you don't have temperature on, you get these random lumps of stone all over the place that can't be used for anything.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on March 10, 2016, 12:34:22 pm
That was not meant as a complaint, I apologize if it looked like one. I may have some odd priorities when it comes to Dwarf Fortress since I operate my outposts to maximize overall "metalness" which is something greatly assisted by corpse mountains everywhere. It was just getting hard to see the living enemies among the piles of dead so I finally gave in and did some tidying up.

Also I will be providing feedback on the latest mod in a bit here; my previous fort just ended in glory. Did you know Hellfire imps can melt lead cages, and under some circumstances molten lead can be extremely dangerous? In particular to the hordes of unarmored millita charging over the still burning corpses of the military in a desperate bid to hold the gate.

Next up: a minecart launcher that sits in magma, full of molten lead, ready to be shotgunned at those who anger me.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: darkflagrance on March 13, 2016, 03:47:45 pm
That was not meant as a complaint, I apologize if it looked like one. I may have some odd priorities when it comes to Dwarf Fortress since I operate my outposts to maximize overall "metalness" which is something greatly assisted by corpse mountains everywhere. It was just getting hard to see the living enemies among the piles of dead so I finally gave in and did some tidying up.

Also I will be providing feedback on the latest mod in a bit here; my previous fort just ended in glory. Did you know Hellfire imps can melt lead cages, and under some circumstances molten lead can be extremely dangerous? In particular to the hordes of unarmored millita charging over the still burning corpses of the military in a desperate bid to hold the gate.

Next up: a minecart launcher that sits in magma, full of molten lead, ready to be shotgunned at those who anger me.

I wish you all the best in the latest version! In any case, I am making sure that the changes I made to the latest version don't occasion any strong negative feedback before moving forward - and if there don't appear to be any further problems with the mod or suggestions with further features to add, I might freeze the mod at the current version until new DF versions are released.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: 9tails on March 20, 2016, 02:16:00 pm
35 naga in year 3, I didn't have semi-traps available to stop them.  10/10, would succumb to the invasion again.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: 9tails on March 22, 2016, 10:50:42 pm
The readme says that ferric elves are trapavoid; my animal stockpile says otherwise.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: darkflagrance on March 23, 2016, 04:45:02 am
The readme says that ferric elves are trapavoid; my animal stockpile says otherwise.

Thanks for finding that bug! It will be fixed in the next version ;)

35 naga in year 3, I didn't have semi-traps available to stop them.  10/10, would succumb to the invasion again.

I'm also glad to see you're enjoying the mod!
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on March 25, 2016, 11:17:47 pm
So I just got a Ruthertar siege and it had horses with it. Not as mounts, just about twenty named horses who came along for... reasons. And three war dogs, which made more sense. Are they mounts that got bugged somehow, or was this on purpose? Regardless I'm making them into roasts and crafts...
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: darkflagrance on March 26, 2016, 05:54:05 am
So I just got a Ruthertar siege and it had horses with it. Not as mounts, just about twenty named horses who came along for... reasons. And three war dogs, which made more sense. Are they mounts that got bugged somehow, or was this on purpose? Regardless I'm making them into roasts and crafts...

The Ruthertaurs have an interaction that also turns the horses into fearless warbeasts, which is why they bring them.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on March 26, 2016, 12:41:40 pm
Good to know, thank you. In other news, the just-arrived Naga siege was ambushed by a huge party of Ferric Elves. Hilarity ensued and the few staggering wounded survivors were wiped out by one squad as they flailed at each other in a mountain of corpses and blood. I guess two wrongs really can make a right!

(http://i.imgur.com/h2KD4Rl.png)
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: darkflagrance on March 26, 2016, 01:21:47 pm
Yes, I've seen this happen with Warwolves and Frog Demons myself, and it's always a laugh. If one of the hostile parties is invisible due to ambushing, you might randomly see the visible siege units falling over dead or running away in panic for no apparent reason.

I like the fact that the sieges have their own agendas and allegiances that thusly manifest themselves.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: MgDark on March 27, 2016, 03:02:28 am
I wonder, the sieges or the size of said sieges are wealth related? Because damn, being sieged by undead in autumn 1 made me unable to recieve the dorf caravan and then i got a lot of "migrants didnt arrive this season", just in case the Dwarf Civ was alive, in spring 2 i got another undead siege and then in spring 3 i got sieged by gobbos AND a shitload of ferric elves. I like how this mod generates !!FUN!!, but my fort only had 19 dorfs and like 120k of created wealth, is that too much?
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: darkflagrance on March 27, 2016, 09:19:39 am
I wonder, the sieges or the size of said sieges are wealth related? Because damn, being sieged by undead in autumn 1 made me unable to recieve the dorf caravan and then i got a lot of "migrants didnt arrive this season", just in case the Dwarf Civ was alive, in spring 2 i got another undead siege and then in spring 3 i got sieged by gobbos AND a shitload of ferric elves. I like how this mod generates !!FUN!!, but my fort only had 19 dorfs and like 120k of created wealth, is that too much?

Spring 3 is the desired time for invasions - I find that it's usually possible to prepare a military competent enough to handle the first siege by the time you get there. Your game appears to be special, in that you embarked close to a powerful, hostile ferric elf and goblin civ. You also ramped up the difficulty even further by embarking in a place where zombies could majorly hinder preparation for the invasion waves. Normally nobody should siege you if you have less than 20 dwarves, but this can be changed by world gen politics because Dwarf Fortress makes goblins and elves have reasons beyond your fortress population/production/trade progress to siege you.

I prefer such a punishing difficulty level to be possible if people really want to deal with holding out against necromancers/undead in combination with the Fortress Defense mod. I would recommend starting over in a less dangerous area for revenge, or holding out against the hordes until you can recover.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: MgDark on March 27, 2016, 02:17:07 pm
Using the recommended Worldgen in the OP, how much years i should worldgen? im doing 100 years, i dont know if that is too much that makes the weaker civs die first
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: darkflagrance on March 27, 2016, 04:47:21 pm
Using the recommended Worldgen in the OP, how much years i should worldgen? im doing 100 years, i dont know if that is too much that makes the weaker civs die first

I use about 30-40 years personally. It helps that my slow computer can't really generate past that >_>

Later eventually gets you stronger civs, but less of them.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: Immortal-D on March 27, 2016, 08:46:27 pm
Query for your Mr. Dark :)  Can you tell me what 'reaction_fdmetals' is used for?  I'm working on compiling my favorite mods into a single pack, and I can't figure what this actually does relative to the rest of Fortress Defense.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: darkflagrance on March 28, 2016, 05:55:58 am
Query for your Mr. Dark :)  Can you tell me what 'reaction_fdmetals' is used for?  I'm working on compiling my favorite mods into a single pack, and I can't figure what this actually does relative to the rest of Fortress Defense.

It's used to force civs to have access to certain metals and only those metals. Many fortress defense civs cannot mine, to prevent them from using jank like copper and silver, and use the reaction_fdmetals reactions to tell them what metal they should exclusively use (Iron, bronze, steel, etc)
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: Immortal-D on March 28, 2016, 08:33:41 pm
Query for your Mr. Dark :)  Can you tell me what 'reaction_fdmetals' is used for?  I'm working on compiling my favorite mods into a single pack, and I can't figure what this actually does relative to the rest of Fortress Defense.

It's used to force civs to have access to certain metals and only those metals. Many fortress defense civs cannot mine, to prevent them from using jank like copper and silver, and use the reaction_fdmetals reactions to tell them what metal they should exclusively use (Iron, bronze, steel, etc)
That makes sense.  Permitted Reaction: Reaction name.  So if that line were removed, would the race choose from all metals?
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: darkflagrance on March 28, 2016, 08:39:59 pm
Query for your Mr. Dark :)  Can you tell me what 'reaction_fdmetals' is used for?  I'm working on compiling my favorite mods into a single pack, and I can't figure what this actually does relative to the rest of Fortress Defense.

It's used to force civs to have access to certain metals and only those metals. Many fortress defense civs cannot mine, to prevent them from using jank like copper and silver, and use the reaction_fdmetals reactions to tell them what metal they should exclusively use (Iron, bronze, steel, etc)
That makes sense.  Permitted Reaction: Reaction name.  So if that line were removed, would the race choose from all metals?

No. The race needs to have pick access to choose from naturally occurring metals (many Fortress Defense civs cannot use picks), and it also needs the reactions that produces each alloy (like pewter, bronze, or steel) to have access to those as well.

A race can have pick access without any alloy reactions, and can have access to alloy metals even without a pick that allows it to mine for ore.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: Immortal-D on March 28, 2016, 08:48:46 pm
Ahh.  That explains why you need a custom reaction for normal metals- no pick, no vanilla metal.  Also I guess why said reaction uses Soap Making :P  B/c ultimately the skill doesn't matter.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: darkflagrance on March 28, 2016, 09:08:03 pm
Ahh.  That explains why you need a custom reaction for normal metals- no pick, no vanilla metal.  Also I guess why said reaction uses Soap Making :P  B/c ultimately the skill doesn't matter.

Exactly ;)
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on March 29, 2016, 11:55:56 pm
So I have a Naga knife-fighter(?!?!) in my current fort, the first fortress defense race visitor to request long term residence. She is training with her morningstar (I have no knives) and otherwise drinking, sleeping, and training normally but she did have one odd interaction with an animal.

She was passing a guinea cock on the stairs and I got a combat report. It was one line for the Naga and the bird; both reported the Naga had spurred the cock. And yes I know that sounds wrong, but what you gonna do? I remember you mentioned the FD races could spur their animals to make them better in combat, could long term residents be doing this to fortress animals too? If so, I suddenly have an amazing new use for all these tame kangaroos...   
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: darkflagrance on March 30, 2016, 12:24:36 am
So I have a Naga knife-fighter(?!?!) in my current fort, the first fortress defense race visitor to request long term residence. She is training with her morningstar (I have no knives) and otherwise drinking, sleeping, and training normally but she did have one odd interaction with an animal.

She was passing a guinea cock on the stairs and I got a combat report. It was one line for the Naga and the bird; both reported the Naga had spurred the cock. And yes I know that sounds wrong, but what you gonna do? I remember you mentioned the FD races could spur their animals to make them better in combat, could long term residents be doing this to fortress animals too? If so, I suddenly have an amazing new use for all these tame kangaroos...

The way the interaction is coded, friendly members of FD races should be able to use it as well. Sounding wrong is a bonus  ;D

I'm actually curious to see whether this is weaponizable.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on March 30, 2016, 10:46:40 am
I will test the crap out of this with all these male llamas and kangaroos I have cluttering up the place. To save some time though, what triggers it and is it permanent? The one I wrote about above didn't seem connected to combat or anything like that, it took place in the middle of a secure area without any hostiles on the map.

Also, if this works, pity my poor male llamas. They literally are forced to spend their entire lives in a cave, and then one day the Dwarves chop their balls off, shave them naked, and send them charging into a horde of weapon wielding horrors from your deepest nightmares...
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: darkflagrance on March 30, 2016, 10:53:12 am
I will test the crap out of this with all these male llamas and kangaroos I have cluttering up the place. To save some time though, what triggers it and is it permanent? The one I wrote about above didn't seem connected to combat or anything like that, it took place in the middle of a secure area without any hostiles on the map.

Also, if this works, pity my poor male llamas. They literally are forced to spend their entire lives in a cave, and then one day the Dwarves chop their balls off, shave them naked, and send them charging into a horde of weapon wielding horrors from your deepest nightmares...

The FD races should have a random chance to use the interaction upon seeing in close proximity a creature that has not been affected by it. It should thereafter be permanent ;)
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on April 08, 2016, 07:27:11 pm
So I'm kinda diggin the whole Putrid Blendac thing Fortress Defense has going on. I just got my first siege of them, and it was both small and arrived much later in my fortress's life than was really wise from the Blendac point of view. So the forty or so of them got to meet Urist Mc Headcrush and his nine macelord buddies, all wielding morning stars they literally pulled from the still cooling hands of their slain foes.  I figure its some kind of rite of manhood among macedwarves or something. Anyhow several Blendacs spent most of the fight cowering in horror as their friends got worked over, and none of them made it off the map. Then all my macedwarves were given a break from training in celebration and seven of the squad decided to go dancing.

This gave me an idea. I think my tavern needs decorated with some nice masterwork cassiterite statues of dwarves striking down Blendacs. And cassiterite doesn't even occur on my map, so you know where I'm getting it from. Its really the little things that count.

Also, still working on testing the spurring thing. Lost the last fort, getting very few visitors at this one. Soon as I have findings about how well it works with FD races as residents and citizens I will post here.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: darkflagrance on April 09, 2016, 10:36:08 am
Yep, the cassiterite is there for the specific purpose of being exploited. Actually I am surprised you can work it; I thought the dwarves would refuse to touch it.

I do find it interesting that the blendecs appear to cower in fear. I will have to recheck their NOFEAR tags. Also, enjoy the morningstar loot! Long swords and whips are also worth stealing.

Keep me posted on the spurring experiments.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on April 09, 2016, 11:06:38 am
To be specific they, according to the combat log, were horrified at all the death going on around them. I don't know if that's exactly the same as fear in game terms. I also couldn't tell if they were trying to flee or fought to the last man, once contact was made there was so much vaporstone mist exploding everywhere that was all that was visible.

Also, you are correct that the cassiterite is not usable. It does not show as a valid material for carving or smelting, even after I enabled it as a viable stone for masonry.

Another curious behavior I just experienced, a Ferric Elf mega-ambush where all but one group of ambushes were nothing but named animals. It was a combination of a crap load of leopards, a few grizzly bears, and one entire ambush group made of nothing but horses. They all died. I'm making all the leopard leather into pants.   
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: dead on April 09, 2016, 07:45:58 pm
So it's possible to get permanent residents from FD races? Because I have a White Tigerman in my army. This is so cool.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: darkflagrance on April 09, 2016, 11:30:44 pm
So it's possible to get permanent residents from FD races? Because I have a White Tigerman in my army. This is so cool.

Yep. Gotta catch 'em all!

I've heard you should also be able to build them armor by changing the size of armor when you order it at the forge. I haven't tested that part yet though ;)

To be specific they, according to the combat log, were horrified at all the death going on around them. I don't know if that's exactly the same as fear in game terms. I also couldn't tell if they were trying to flee or fought to the last man, once contact was made there was so much vaporstone mist exploding everywhere that was all that was visible.

Also, you are correct that the cassiterite is not usable. It does not show as a valid material for carving or smelting, even after I enabled it as a viable stone for masonry.

Another curious behavior I just experienced, a Ferric Elf mega-ambush where all but one group of ambushes were nothing but named animals. It was a combination of a crap load of leopards, a few grizzly bears, and one entire ambush group made of nothing but horses. They all died. I'm making all the leopard leather into pants.   

I think it's normal for speech capable units to be horrified by death even if it does not cause them to flee. As long as they aren't actually breaking it should be alright.

The cassiterite was usable in past versions of the mod. Right now functionality is broken because dwarves refuse to use things that came from the corpses of sentient beings, even if what came from the corpse was a resource stone. Hopefully it will be fixed when Toady gets rid of that bug.

The ferric elves should have access to the same animals as normal elves, so that they are bringing wild animal squads does not surprise me. I hope they're good eating as well as good wearing ;)
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: dead on April 10, 2016, 12:01:03 pm
So it's possible to get permanent residents from FD races? Because I have a White Tigerman in my army. This is so cool.

Yep. Gotta catch 'em all!

I've heard you should also be able to build them armor by changing the size of armor when you order it at the forge. I haven't tested that part yet though ;)

Yup. You can totally armor them. You can armor them to the teeth like your dwarf. I've always felt bad sending my dwarfs to certain death, but I don't feel as bad with these mercs. They can train outside the fort and act as bait for all I care. Naga's venom is pretty cool when it works. I really like them. I so love the tavern feature of DF. I'm not at war with the war elephants, though they've ambushed me, but I've never had a war elephant visitor. They can clearly wear armor. I would love to get one for my army and see how much steel armor I can put on them. Lol.

edit:
Apparently Nagas are small and can only wear 1 boot on the account of having a tail and no feet.
(http://i.imgur.com/0i1CQge.jpg)

White tigerman can wear the same thing as dwarfs in large. However they can only wear things made for white tigerman and not human, even though it's both large. I'm assuming a maul would be better for them than war hammer since they're large, though I haven't gotten a silver/steel one yet. The next war elephant attack should bring some. These guys also have a tail, though I don't know what you would cover that with.
(http://i.imgur.com/iojHzpQ.jpg)

p.s. I have modest mod, so no socks mittens or other things. I also didn't go for maxed coverage, they just putting gear on in the wrong order and complain about mixmatched equip.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: darkflagrance on April 11, 2016, 02:20:31 pm
Tails should be covered by mail shirt, if not you can try to look for tigerman size full plate that tigerman invaders/visitors may wear.

Tigermen are size 90k or so which means they are larger than humans.

I think war hammers will be fine. Mauls will also do ok as long as they can still use shields with them.

Mismatched equips can also happen if you make a new awesome piece of armor and your soldier wants it.

Fortress Defence races love to fight so don't be shy abput putting them on front lines ;) Watch out for honeybadgerman mercs though because they will sometimes try to kill each other.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: Shonai_Dweller on April 12, 2016, 10:20:12 pm
Let us know if you ever work out trunk armour!
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: darkflagrance on April 13, 2016, 09:31:55 am
Technically it's not really possible because invader races will never ever armor their grasping limbs. That said, the full plate that war elephants wear covers EVERYTHING that is not specifically excluded by another piece of armor.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: dead on April 14, 2016, 02:02:39 pm
Tails should be covered by mail shirt, if not you can try to look for tigerman size full plate that tigerman invaders/visitors may wear.

Tigermen are size 90k or so which means they are larger than humans.

I think war hammers will be fine. Mauls will also do ok as long as they can still use shields with them.

Mismatched equips can also happen if you make a new awesome piece of armor and your soldier wants it.

Fortress Defence races love to fight so don't be shy abput putting them on front lines ;) Watch out for honeybadgerman mercs though because they will sometimes try to kill each other.

I wasn't lucky enough to get badgermen in my embark. I didn't want to keep generating worlds and I just wanted to fight giants and elephants. The only mercs I've seen to be getting are tigermen and nagas, beside the vanilla ones of course. I am loving the nagas mercs more than tigermen though. One of my naga spearwoman racked up 28 kills during a ferric elves ambush, there were 150 elves and war beasts, it was nuts. She was biting things, injecting venom, they give in to pain and she stab them in the head. Lost a couple soldiers and a bunch of wounded, but the tavern is filled with mercs looking for a glorious death in battle. Most fun I've had with DF since Masterwork mod stopped updating.   
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: darkflagrance on April 14, 2016, 11:12:28 pm
Nice to see the Nagas pulling their weight. I find it very hard to catch them in action myself to ensure their poison is effective. Merc availability does vary wildly, regretfully, like siege enemy availability. Good to see large sieges are still a feature!

Most fun I've had with DF since Masterwork mod stopped updating.   

I find this to be high praise. Comments like this inspire me to continue maintaining the Fortress Defense Mod.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: dead on April 16, 2016, 11:22:06 am
So I discovered a HUGE mistake in hiring HOSTILE mercs. All of the Fortress Defense races are consider hostiles. Eventually a thief, an ambush or a siege from that merc's civ is going to come knocking on your doors. Well, a white tigermen army siege me. I have 9 hammerlord tigermen in full steel training in the courtyard. Take a wild guess what happened. Lol. Note to self, do not let the mercs out numbered your dwarven soldiers. Also, don't give them the best gear you have, maybe just leather so they don't murder everyone when they turn. Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: darkflagrance on April 16, 2016, 02:57:37 pm
So I discovered a HUGE mistake in hiring HOSTILE mercs. All of the Fortress Defense races are consider hostiles. Eventually a thief, an ambush or a siege from that merc's civ is going to come knocking on your doors. Well, a white tigermen army siege me. I have 9 hammerlord tigermen in full steel training in the courtyard. Take a wild guess what happened. Lol. Note to self, do not let the mercs out numbered your dwarven soldiers. Also, don't give them the best gear you have, maybe just leather so they don't murder everyone when they turn. Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!

You can actually guarantee loyalty by checking the allegiances of your soldiers. For example, I've had White Tigerman mercs from one civ fight other White Tigermen because the designated attackers were from a different Tigerman Civ. As long as you can check the mercs are from a different civ from the ones known to be hostile, hiring them SHOULD be safe.

Did you survive the !!!FUN!!!?
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: dead on April 16, 2016, 06:12:29 pm

You can actually guarantee loyalty by checking the allegiances of your soldiers. For example, I've had White Tigerman mercs from one civ fight other White Tigermen because the designated attackers were from a different Tigerman Civ. As long as you can check the mercs are from a different civ from the ones known to be hostile, hiring them SHOULD be safe.

Did you survive the !!!FUN!!!?

How do I check the allegiances before hiring them? How do I check the allegiances after hiring them? Lol. The Tigerman mercs weren't the only ones who turned. The ones partying in the tavern, praying in the temple and reading in the library also turned. There were a ton of visitors. Lol. My poor Medical Chief was pondering on bandages when he took a maul to the face. My main dwarven axelords squad were outside fighting the siege with marksdwarf support. Many of the naga mercs were recuperating from the last engagement. By the time the siege broke and the axelords came back to help, half of my civs and all of my recruits got their faces smashed in.

So I decided to generate a new world with more people to fight. And this time make better choices. Lol. 
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: darkflagrance on April 16, 2016, 06:22:30 pm
If you've been invaded by or encountered thieves from a hostile tigerman civ, you'll have them listed in the 'c' screen. Remember their name.

If you hire tigermen mercs, you'll see they have their own former civ(s) listed as well.
If the two names are different, they won't cause hostilities to renew when the hostile tigermen send their siege. Tigerman mercs stolen away from the tigerman civ and raised by another civ should hold to that civ's diplomatic relations rather than those of the tigerman civ they were taken from. On the other hand, if they are from a hostile civ...

Because of this, you may want to be careful about what visitors in your fort are allowed to do. There isn't necessarily a way of knowing whether a merc you hire will eventually turn hostile if his civ has not yet interacted with your fort.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: Panando on April 18, 2016, 07:27:37 am
Man the hellfire imps are a nightmare to try and fight fair. Fighting them near anything flammable seems like a death sentence not that fireproof surroundings are much better.

I thought that a drowning trap would be the perfect counter but the little sh*ts are happy as dolphins in the water so looks like the best way to kill them is with trap stabbification or a high speed collision with the ground.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: darkflagrance on April 18, 2016, 11:27:27 pm
Man the hellfire imps are a nightmare to try and fight fair. Fighting them near anything flammable seems like a death sentence not that fireproof surroundings are much better.

I thought that a drowning trap would be the perfect counter but the little sh*ts are happy as dolphins in the water so looks like the best way to kill them is with trap stabbification or a high speed collision with the ground.

Hellfire imps naturally dwell in magma, so they don't need to breathe. On the other hand, shields are good defenses against fire attacks, assuming the landscape is stone or otherwise fire-resistant
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: Panando on April 19, 2016, 04:51:56 am
Which is okay, but for some reason in my last two fortress Hellfire Imps have been the first race to attack (about year 2). My warriors are usually only low legendary and sub legendary shield user by then so there's not much hope against the imps except trapping them and dropping them to their deaths. I'm guessing they're probably attacking earlier than they should be.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: darkflagrance on April 19, 2016, 07:56:57 am
Which is okay, but for some reason in my last two fortress Hellfire Imps have been the first race to attack (about year 2). My warriors are usually only low legendary and sub legendary shield user by then so there's not much hope against the imps except trapping them and dropping them to their deaths. I'm guessing they're probably attacking earlier than they should be.

They are attacking first due to distance.

In my experience, year two is enough to deal with hellfire imps assuming you embark with two or three military who train since year one. It helps to concentrate on full armor coverage. Losing dwarves may occur but enough dwarves should overcome them.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: dead on April 20, 2016, 05:16:00 pm
Which is okay, but for some reason in my last two fortress Hellfire Imps have been the first race to attack (about year 2). My warriors are usually only low legendary and sub legendary shield user by then so there's not much hope against the imps except trapping them and dropping them to their deaths. I'm guessing they're probably attacking earlier than they should be.

I've found that Hellfire Imps are easily scared off with marksdwarfs from behind fortifications. I've been attacked twice, once a siege with 10-20 imps riding war elephants and an ambush with like teens solo imps. Both times my marksdwarfs managed to kill no more than 3-4 before they start running off. Apparently, they explode when they die, so melee combat will probably result in burnt beards. They don't seem to be attacking in obscene numbers like the weaker races, but holy cow those fire are destructive. I'm so glad I didn't built 1-z level below the surface, there are so many collapsed trees and holes everywhere. I wish I had embarked in a wasteland or barren, these trees are dangerous.

   
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: dead on April 21, 2016, 11:27:21 pm
So I've been messing around with spites because I was tired of seeing the badgermen as b's. I love SpaceFox and GemSet graphics. First of all, I have absolutely no idea how to mod any part of this game, though I can copy-pasta like no one's business. The great thing about GemSet is that there's a base for every single one of the races that this mod adds. So all I did was recolor to something that made sense. I can totally make most of the races with all of the weapons in GemSet style. I haven't asked GemSet's creator for permission or anything. I was just dicking around. I have no clue how I would put this into the game. I really like this mod and I want to contribute in whichever ways I can. This is what I can do. Hopes it's cool.   


(http://i.imgur.com/sProMYX.png)
The first 4 exists in GemSet and I recolor and added weapons for the other ones. The last 2 are supposed to be honeybadgermen while the others are greater badgermen. The redish is supposed to be bronze and the blueish is steel. I imagine one would be used for regular and the other lords.


(http://i.imgur.com/v1RBmBu.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/fRiVv1D.png)
Working on different ways they hold the weapons as well as different style of the same weapons to see how they look.

(http://i.imgur.com/xdUNCV1.jpg)
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: darkflagrance on April 22, 2016, 10:32:43 pm
Wow! That art is awesome! I definitely want to include it in the game!

I don't know if I need permissions or not. But I'm going to try to cook up a mod that will make these work.

Edit: Name the small badgerman graphics file fdb1.png, and the small pandashi graphics fdb2.png, then create the following graphics_*.txt files in the graphics folder for a dwarf fortress client or save you want to use these graphics in:

Feel free to ask for permission from the GemSet creator, and/or continue creating new graphics for bonus/challenge races  :D

graphics_fdb1.txt
Code: [Select]
graphics_fdb1

[OBJECT:GRAPHICS]

[TILE_PAGE:FDB1]
  [FILE:fdb1.png]
  [TILE_DIM:24:24]
  [PAGE_DIM:18:1]


[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:GREAT_BADGER_FD]
[DEFAULT:FDB1:2:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]

[RECRUIT:FDB1:2:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[WRESTLER:FDB1:4:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[SWORDSMAN:FDB1:14:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[AXEMAN:FDB1:12:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[SPEARMAN:FDB1:10:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[PIKEMAN:FDB1:10:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[CROSSBOWMAN:FDB1:16:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[BOWMAN:FDB1:16:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[HAMMERMAN:FDB1:6:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[MACEMAN:FDB1:8:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]

[CHAMPION:FDB1:17:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[MASTER_WRESTLER:FDB1:5:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[MASTER_SWORDSMAN:FDB1:15:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[MASTER_AXEMAN:FDB1:13:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[MASTER_SPEARMAN:FDB1:11:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[MASTER_PIKEMAN:FDB1:11:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[MASTER_BOWMAN:FDB1:16:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[MASTER_CROSSBOWMAN:FDB1:16:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[MASTER_HAMMERMAN:FDB1:7:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[MASTER_MACEMAN:FDB1:5:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]

graphics_fdb2.txt
Code: [Select]
graphics_fdb2

[OBJECT:GRAPHICS]

[TILE_PAGE:FDB2]
  [FILE:fdb2.png]
  [TILE_DIM:24:24]
  [PAGE_DIM:12:1]


[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:PANDASHI_FD]
[DEFAULT:FD:0:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]

[RECRUIT:FD:2:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[WRESTLER:FD:3:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[SWORDSMAN:FD:9:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[AXEMAN:FD:4:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[SPEARMAN:FD:8:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[PIKEMAN:FD:6:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[CROSSBOWMAN:FD:10:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[BOWMAN:FD:10:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[HAMMERMAN:FD:3:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[MACEMAN:FD:5:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[LASHER:FD:11:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]

[CHAMPION:FD:7:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[MASTER_WRESTLER:FD:3:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[MASTER_SWORDSMAN:FD:9:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[MASTER_AXEMAN:FD:4:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[MASTER_SPEARMAN:FD:8:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[MASTER_PIKEMAN:FD:6:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[MASTER_BOWMAN:FD:10:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[MASTER_CROSSBOWMAN:FD:10:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[MASTER_HAMMERMAN:FD:3:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[MASTER_MACEMAN:FD:5:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[MASTER_LASHER:FD:11:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: darkflagrance on April 23, 2016, 01:59:27 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/0D6Yh9e.png)
Some bladebiters at play
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: dead on April 23, 2016, 04:41:15 pm
Cool. I took a look at the syntax of the txt and general sprite guides. They look pretty straight forward. Thanks for the txt, I'll add it to my game once I get a chance. I'm having a little bit too much fun making the sprites at the moment. Also, I made these SpaceFox inspired pandas. They kinda look like depressed pandas. Lol

(http://i.imgur.com/tWOfoV7.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/uqmq2fI.png)

I keep forgetting weapons that no one ever uses, like knives and blowguns. I like these a lot more than the GemSet version that I did. They're cute and all angsty and they've come to laid waste to your fortress, now you'll know why you fear the pandas.   

In other news, I had a MASSIVE badger siege. My invasion count is set to 150, there are like 20-ish visitors, there are some crundle and some imps somewhere underground. Either way, 242 count is obscene.

(http://i.imgur.com/h2Tcnpc.jpg)

I thought FUN! was to be had with some badger vs badger action. I've actually hired 15 badgers, all of which were NOT from the hostile civ.

(http://i.imgur.com/9hhq4wM.jpg)

A couple of bolts and they were all in mortal fear. I thought the latest version of FD made it so mounts aren't fearful. It looks like only the water buffaloes and horses ran, most of the war elephants stayed and fight. They're vanilla war trained elephants and not part of the war elephant race. The only other mod I'm using is Modest Mod, hence the Pheobus since the newest MM isn't available for GemSet or SpaceFox.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: darkflagrance on April 23, 2016, 05:31:58 pm
Because the "fearless" inspiration was designed for mounts, it currently only works if the invaders are right on top of the animals - if the animals arrive far from the main detachment, they don't have any reminders that they're part of an invading army. In other words, the Fortress Defense races kinda require a "commissar" to oversee their animals. If the animals flee into range of a Fortress Defense race member, they might help them get a grip on their fear, but it might only occur at random.

That said, a broader interaction might work. I'll look into making it line of sight or increasing the range, though this would increase the chance that non-invading animals get hit with the "fearlessness".

242 invaders is crazy! Such a shame if the nice green tiles on that map were to get dyed crimson...but what a sight it would be! If you got a save with that army on the map, you could reload the game with graphics for the badgers as well :D

Cool. I took a look at the syntax of the txt and general sprite guides. They look pretty straight forward. Thanks for the txt, I'll add it to my game once I get a chance. I'm having a little bit too much fun making the sprites at the moment. Also, I made these SpaceFox inspired pandas. They kinda look like depressed pandas. Lol

(http://i.imgur.com/tWOfoV7.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/uqmq2fI.png)

I keep forgetting weapons that no one ever uses, like knives and blowguns. I like these a lot more than the GemSet version that I did. They're cute and all angsty and they've come to laid waste to your fortress, now you'll know why you fear the pandas.   

I'm liking your spritework a lot! :D Yeah, the graphics_*.txt files I posted should be easily adaptable to tell the game to use your new pandas as well. Let me know if it goes well, or if you have further questions :)
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: dead on April 23, 2016, 11:40:13 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/mDOL1rr.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/xFQsqis.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/P4jCk17.jpg)

So I finished up the badgers, which I now realize they both look like KIZZ members. Lol. Then modified the text file and put them ingame. The skellie was what I used as a base to draw their heads, it's not used for anything ingame wise.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: darkflagrance on April 27, 2016, 10:12:00 pm
Congratulations on the successful graphification of the invaders!

I should probably develop a spritesheet myself, but it's hard to come up with something I find satisfying using only my basic artistic skills. I much prefer to solicit donations, if you know what I mean ;)
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: dead on May 01, 2016, 09:31:06 pm

(http://i.imgur.com/gkOVskl.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/LceZdV9.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/xc4IxU8.jpg)

I finished the pandas and badgers in GemSet style, every weapon in both regular and elite version. I messaged the creator of GemSet and he's fine with me editing them, which means if you want to use them in your mod, you're free to do so. The SpaceFox version are mine since I made them in that style, so you're free to use those as well. Though I'll revisit them to make elite version as well as cover the weapons I missed later. I'm not sure if I should give the elite badgers a hat like the pandas, mostly just looking for feedback, since honestly I'm just winging it here. I would very much like to finish out all of the races in GemSet style since they're easy to do and I enjoy doing them.

Now that Meph is back to doing Masterwork, I wonder if he wants to use them as well since I know the races in there are based on this mod. Though that depends on if GemSet/SpaceFox are the tiles he's including in the mod.   
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 02, 2016, 12:44:29 am

(http://i.imgur.com/gkOVskl.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/LceZdV9.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/xc4IxU8.jpg)

I finished the pandas and badgers in GemSet style, every weapon in both regular and elite version. I messaged the creator of GemSet and he's fine with me editing them, which means if you want to use them in your mod, you're free to do so. The SpaceFox version are mine since I made them in that style, so you're free to use those as well. Though I'll revisit them to make elite version as well as cover the weapons I missed later. I'm not sure if I should give the elite badgers a hat like the pandas, mostly just looking for feedback, since honestly I'm just winging it here. I would very much like to finish out all of the races in GemSet style since they're easy to do and I enjoy doing them.

Now that Meph is back to doing Masterwork, I wonder if he wants to use them as well since I know the races in there are based on this mod. Though that depends on if GemSet/SpaceFox are the tiles he's including in the mod.   

I think the distinct color scheme may be sufficient for the badgermen, but that's entirely up to you. As for winging it - isn't that what creativity is all about? I just make things based on what seems cool at the time and balance it later :D

Thanks for clearing up the permissions issue. If you decide on a final version of the sprites, I'd be honored to include them in my mod  :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: dead on May 05, 2016, 02:58:32 pm
bonus races
badger (http://i.imgur.com/9T3W1kP.png)
panda (http://i.imgur.com/egG2MNs.png)
raptor (http://i.imgur.com/l9CDJef.png)

standard races
elf (http://i.imgur.com/Faj9TnE.png)
frog (http://i.imgur.com/dILH8rN.png)
blendec (http://i.imgur.com/iTC1liK.png)
imp (http://i.imgur.com/ehHp3aG.png)
naga (http://i.imgur.com/2N2zji8.png)

default-wrestler-blowgun-crossbow-bow-pike-spear-whip-hammer-mace-axe-knife-sword followed by elites in the same order.

These are the colors I'm happy with for these races. I'm particularly happy with how the elves, blendecs and imps came out. I tried to stay true to the material of the weapons they use. The armor is just whatever looks cool. I tried my best to make each race unique and their elite version cooler than the regular version. Now that I have the process streamline and I know what to do, the rest of the other races will be done in no time. I do have questions about some races though.

Dark Stranglers are just regular stranglers, but darker? So they have 2 legs and 4 arms? Can they wield weapons? Not just whether they attack with weapons or not, but if you can recruit them through the tavern, can you then give them weapons. I understand that most of the sprites I'm making are unnecessary since certain races won't ever attack with certain weapons and I'm just making those in case you recruit them and give them weird weapons to use, since that's what I do. Also, are beak wolves actually big wolves? Or are they wolf-man? If they're just wolves then they won't ever be able to wield weapons. In that case, what kind of sprites am I suppose to make for them? Also, Greater Fiend Spider. I haven't came across these in my playthrough, so I don't know what they're supposed to be or if they can wield weapons and such.

Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 05, 2016, 10:34:10 pm
bonus races
badger (http://i.imgur.com/9T3W1kP.png)
panda (http://i.imgur.com/egG2MNs.png)
raptor (http://i.imgur.com/l9CDJef.png)

standard races
elf (http://i.imgur.com/Faj9TnE.png)
frog (http://i.imgur.com/dILH8rN.png)
blendec (http://i.imgur.com/iTC1liK.png)
imp (http://i.imgur.com/ehHp3aG.png)
naga (http://i.imgur.com/2N2zji8.png)

default-wrestler-blowgun-crossbow-bow-pike-spear-whip-hammer-mace-axe-knife-sword followed by elites in the same order.

These are the colors I'm happy with for these races. I'm particularly happy with how the elves, blendecs and imps came out. I tried to stay true to the material of the weapons they use. The armor is just whatever looks cool. I tried my best to make each race unique and their elite version cooler than the regular version. Now that I have the process streamline and I know what to do, the rest of the other races will be done in no time. I do have questions about some races though.

Dark Stranglers are just regular stranglers, but darker? So they have 2 legs and 4 arms? Can they wield weapons? Not just whether they attack with weapons or not, but if you can recruit them through the tavern, can you then give them weapons. I understand that most of the sprites I'm making are unnecessary since certain races won't ever attack with certain weapons and I'm just making those in case you recruit them and give them weird weapons to use, since that's what I do. Also, are beak wolves actually big wolves? Or are they wolf-man? If they're just wolves then they won't ever be able to wield weapons. In that case, what kind of sprites am I suppose to make for them? Also, Greater Fiend Spider. I haven't came across these in my playthrough, so I don't know what they're supposed to be or if they can wield weapons and such.

These are pretty impressive! Overall they're a lot easier to distinguish to me than the current sprites. The blendecs look especially tough in this style.

Beak wolves are based off Beak dogs, which are in turn a creature reminiscent of velociraptors or the mounts from the movie Labyrinth. This is one imagining of DF beak dogs:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You could also just give them sprites of wolves with beaks, or however way you personally see them. I think the depiction of beak dogs is an open question in dwarf fortress lore, so you should feel free to make an addition to it ;)
They are highly unlikely to use weapons.

Dark Stranglers are intended to be unrecruitable and don't usually use weapons, but they coooouuuld theoretically be abducted by a weapon-wielding race and trained/given equipment. I wouldn't say they need art for each potential weapon.

Great Fiend Spiders are more badass Giant Cave Spiders, if you need a reference. They are probably similar in appearance as well to Ungoliant or Shelob from LOTR/Silmarillion, which is what the GCS is presumably based on.

Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: Meph on May 06, 2016, 09:21:10 am
I'm currently updating the version I have in Masterwork, just noticed a few things.

Dark death scorpions?

How about a boiling rock for fire-imp itemcorpses that is hot enough to burn creatures near it? Would make archers better against them, while melee takes more damage.

You really buffed them up with their natural skills, no-pain and metal-grade skins... did people complain about them being too easy?

You took out buildingdestroyer tags, is that because they can be visitors; razing down libraries and taverns?

I raised the wait period from 500 to 3000 ticks for the spider fiends web attack. I always felt that webbers are overpowered, and an entire group of them can stun-lock pretty much your entire army.

I removed FLIER from nightwings. Sorry, the Ai is still too bugged. Fleeing nightwings might remain in a spot up in the sky, unkillable for dwarves, which results in a never-ending siege.

SKILL_LEARN_RATE:SWORD:50000 on furies is rather pointless. Why not NATURAL_SKILL:SWORD ?

I deleted ITEM_HELM_CAP_FD, because its name is CAP, identical to the vanilla cap. Players have no way of distinguishing them and end up with double entries in stockpiles.

I also deleted the building file, because civs do reactions in world-history even without buildings.

Why do some civs have nobles and some dont?
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 06, 2016, 04:24:21 pm
Cannot reply in depth at the moment.

Tougher enemies are not that much tougher. You can still easily kill them because they lack full armor or are weak to masterwork weapons. Change allows them to pierce armor with physical attacks.

Dark death scorps and furied weap skill are partially implemented easter eggs. Natural weapon skill seems tp cause troops to come naked so skill rate seems to be the only way. It is also capped way below 5000.

Nobles are flavor anyway. Building destroyer is due to mercs.

All other changes are acceptable and I will consider them myself.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on May 09, 2016, 10:47:16 am
I can  attest that great fiend spiders are absolutely horrific to fight in a stand up brawl. I'm playing to see how to defeat different attacking races without using massive walls of traps. My military is to the point where the two primary squads can steamroll a fifty blendac/raptor man/fury siege with maybe one or two losses. Mass Ruthertaur and Fire Imp attacks are harder to deal with, but I have had success at breaking them into smaller bits and wiping them out. Basically some planning and prep means almost all threats can be engaged conventionally. The only exception is the spiders, One ten man siege of spider wrestlers wiped my entire militia out without taking a single loss.

In every case the casualties were caused by a webbed dwarf being bitten in the head through his masterwork steel helm. Weapons strikes and wrestling basically never came into it, and I tried a half dozen different ways of coming at the spiders to see if it was possible to engage them successfully. The result was the always the same; death by perma-web.

The next logical step is to use some of this big stupid pile of adamantine I'm sitting on to make helmets and see if they can bite through those. If that doesn't work I've started construction of a gas chamber, a minefield, an incendiary cluster munition cannon, and something that will either be useless or work like a neutron bomb. Spiders gonna die. Its just a question of how.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 09, 2016, 10:00:08 pm
The strategy I had been having success with against gfs is to fight them in small groups, separating them from each other so they cannot cover each other with webs, then massing infantry and rushing the smaller clusters. However bad gfs are, I've also fought against it myself and even lost many forts to. They are intended to be incredibly challenging and I'm open to people suggesting I nerf them.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on May 10, 2016, 12:00:49 am
I would say, with regards to a nerf, that this is much more a question of what you want the mod to be about than the merits of GFS as an individual opponent race. What I love about Fortress Defense (FD) is the way the game is constantly throwing new problems at me. What I hate about FD is how some of those problems are beyond the ability of my current play style to solve. As a long time DF player I'm used to goblins... which become something of a joke once you have a capable military. In FD (for my current fort where not all races are available) this is true of some races (Raptor men, Furies, Blendacs) but not others (Hellfire Imps, GFS, Ruthererturs).

I like the idea of having enemies visit who will just wreck my shit if I fight them like goblins. That adds a new dimension to the game that is badly lacking in vanilla. Other races, imps and rutherertaurs, present serious challenges but they can be taken care of through careful planning and lots of preparation. Imps are just stupid dangerous due to fire. At least with the civ in my current world the rutherertaurs show up in sieges of 100+, which is enough to overwhelm almost any number of dwarves. Extensive testing has shown that in an open fight those kind of numbers coupled with the other things rutherertaurs having going will just keep trucking until every military dwarf is dead. This is cool and fun because it gives me a chance to break them into smaller groups and take them apart, like how with imps crossbows and whatnot become important.

The problem with GFS is not so much that they are very dangerous, but rather that there is not really a way around that. Webs make them brutal, and no matter how you stage the battle this won't change. This isn't bad really just a bit frustrating at times. The player has the choice of either locking the doors and waiting them out, or dying. A third option, one I haven't set up yet, is the "wall of traps that kills anything ever" which is a highly effective defense but because of how the game works also a bit overpowered. A hall of doors that lets me break them into groups of one or two does basically the same thing as five hundred steel spikes hooked to a lever; it simply crushes the problem with engineering since GFS are helpless against doors.

So the question to you as the mod developer is what you want out of your hostile races. I take losses from fighting lesser attackers on the open ground. A hundred furies versus twenty dwarves means one fury is going to get lucky and I as the player have to deal with a loss or two. A hundred Rutherertaurs means big problems, missed migrants and caravans, and god help me if I don't get everything set up fast enough. GFS mean lock the doors or savescum. I'm working on a trap setup that will end them, but is forcing the player to rely on predictable AI pathing and the full power of traps a design goal? If so, they are working. If not, is there a way to make them more unpredictable/interesting?
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: Meph on May 13, 2016, 08:47:21 am
I had a rather interesting post on reddit:
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: Dostoevsky on May 13, 2016, 04:39:18 pm
I was looking through the raws and I think I spotted a possible typo/bug. The readme states that elder badgermen grow to be 1.5x the size of a dwarf, but the raws currently have the age 80 size of a badgerman at 900,000 (not 90,000).
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 13, 2016, 09:09:10 pm
I would say, with regards to a nerf, that this is much more a question of what you want the mod to be about than the merits of GFS as an individual opponent race. What I love about Fortress Defense (FD) is the way the game is constantly throwing new problems at me. What I hate about FD is how some of those problems are beyond the ability of my current play style to solve. As a long time DF player I'm used to goblins... which become something of a joke once you have a capable military. In FD (for my current fort where not all races are available) this is true of some races (Raptor men, Furies, Blendacs) but not others (Hellfire Imps, GFS, Ruthererturs).

I like the idea of having enemies visit who will just wreck my shit if I fight them like goblins. That adds a new dimension to the game that is badly lacking in vanilla. Other races, imps and rutherertaurs, present serious challenges but they can be taken care of through careful planning and lots of preparation. Imps are just stupid dangerous due to fire. At least with the civ in my current world the rutherertaurs show up in sieges of 100+, which is enough to overwhelm almost any number of dwarves. Extensive testing has shown that in an open fight those kind of numbers coupled with the other things rutherertaurs having going will just keep trucking until every military dwarf is dead. This is cool and fun because it gives me a chance to break them into smaller groups and take them apart, like how with imps crossbows and whatnot become important.

The problem with GFS is not so much that they are very dangerous, but rather that there is not really a way around that. Webs make them brutal, and no matter how you stage the battle this won't change. This isn't bad really just a bit frustrating at times. The player has the choice of either locking the doors and waiting them out, or dying. A third option, one I haven't set up yet, is the "wall of traps that kills anything ever" which is a highly effective defense but because of how the game works also a bit overpowered. A hall of doors that lets me break them into groups of one or two does basically the same thing as five hundred steel spikes hooked to a lever; it simply crushes the problem with engineering since GFS are helpless against doors.

So the question to you as the mod developer is what you want out of your hostile races. I take losses from fighting lesser attackers on the open ground. A hundred furies versus twenty dwarves means one fury is going to get lucky and I as the player have to deal with a loss or two. A hundred Rutherertaurs means big problems, missed migrants and caravans, and god help me if I don't get everything set up fast enough. GFS mean lock the doors or savescum. I'm working on a trap setup that will end them, but is forcing the player to rely on predictable AI pathing and the full power of traps a design goal? If so, they are working. If not, is there a way to make them more unpredictable/interesting?

I've been thinking a great deal about this post. I'm trying to get some more testing data from the GFS, but I think since I'm releasing a new update shortly, I'll reduce their difficulty and see how it goes.

I had a rather interesting post on reddit:

Thanks for bringing my attention to that post! Technically, it was intentional, because when I was experimenting with ensuring that civs spawned, I told them to spawn EVERYWHERE. I'm not sure if their armies can cross the water, but I can say that you can make waterdwelling races with the right tags. Maybe it's time I called an end to the experiment.

I was looking through the raws and I think I spotted a possible typo/bug. The readme states that elder badgermen grow to be 1.5x the size of a dwarf, but the raws currently have the age 80 size of a badgerman at 900,000 (not 90,000).

Good catch! I'll address tis.
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: Meph on May 13, 2016, 10:08:47 pm
Quote
I've been thinking a great deal about this post. I'm trying to get some more testing data from the GFS, but I think since I'm releasing a new update shortly, I'll reduce their difficulty and see how it goes.
I did nerf them for Masterwork, as I do all webbers: Wait period increased from 30 to 3000.

Essentially each webber gets one shot, then has to wait. Gives units the chance to break free, no stun-lock due to constant webbing.

PS:
Code: [Select]
[SYNDROME]
[SYN_NAME:serpent man bite]
[SYN_AFFECTED_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON]
[SYN_IMMUNE_CREATURE:SPIDER_CAVE:ALL]
[SYN_INJECTED]
Cave spiders are immune to Serpent man bites. ;)
Title: Re: [0.42.06] Fortress Defense Mod II R v17: Infection of the Warwolf Curse!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 13, 2016, 10:42:06 pm
Quote
I've been thinking a great deal about this post. I'm trying to get some more testing data from the GFS, but I think since I'm releasing a new update shortly, I'll reduce their difficulty and see how it goes.
I did nerf them for Masterwork, as I do all webbers: Wait period increased from 30 to 3000.

Essentially each webber gets one shot, then has to wait. Gives units the chance to break free, no stun-lock due to constant webbing.

PS:
Code: [Select]
[SYNDROME]
[SYN_NAME:serpent man bite]
[SYN_AFFECTED_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON]
[SYN_IMMUNE_CREATURE:SPIDER_CAVE:ALL]
[SYN_INJECTED]
Cave spiders are immune to Serpent man bites. ;)

The ALL_MAIN biome tag includes ocean tiles. Doing a universal replace of BIOME:ALL_MAIN and SUPPORT:ALL_MAIN to BIOME:ANY_LAND and SUPPORT:ANY_LAND will remove ocean dwelling, if it is undesired.
Title: Re: [0.43.02] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 16, 2016, 02:17:12 am
New release for 43.0X!

---Changes for 0.18 R4

-Additional graphics for Fortress Defense Civs courtesy of dead!
-Address conflict in promised and actual Greater Badgerman size
-Nerfed web-slinging by Great Fiend Spiders, augmented their wrestling
-Fortress Defense Civs are no longer allowed to set up their own versions of Rapture under the ocean waves (ALL_MAIN -> ANY_LAND)
-Increased the range of the Spurring interaction so animals are even less afraid when accompanying Fortress Defense sieges
-Added additional skill learn rates to furies
-Renamed the custom Fortress Defense cap so that the item name would not be duplicated in stockpiles
-Nagas now immune to their own venom
Title: Re: [0.43.02] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: dead on May 16, 2016, 07:24:37 pm
Weee, I contributed! Also, here are some more. I was planning on holding them up until I finish all of them, but I'm excited about the 'bigger' races. Their weapons are bigger and that shirtless giant wrestler though. Lol.

giant - (http://i.imgur.com/PvlBsAH.png)
minotaur - (http://i.imgur.com/I63xL7b.png)
white tiger - (http://i.imgur.com/PlLMO6y.png)
Title: Re: [0.43.02] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on May 17, 2016, 11:54:14 am
So I'm finally getting some decent testing in on FD races spurring animals; I kept getting forts in places where I just couldn't get enough FD mercs as residents to make it happen. Also, note this is without your latest update installed.

It seems to work well. If left around animals the FD races will spur them often enough that the process can be put to planned use. I have had the best luck so far with pasturing animals I want to use in combat in the barracks. The animals do indefinitely retain the fearlessness and aggression.

The only drawback is that over time the beloved pets of my Dwarves will come in contact long enough to get spurred. I just had a goat attack a rattlesnake and die from massive necrosis because it kept fighting through a dozen bites. It seems like somebody's peacock is always charging in screaming rage at a Jabberer or something. That works out about how you would expect, but at least it helps keep FPS up!

So, with the basics of the thing worked out, I plan on performing the following tests:

1. Pit a hundred spurred cavies and toss naked goblins in. See what happens.
2. Cave Croc weaponization program. They don't seem super inclined to run anyway, so I want to see if it makes them more effective.
3. War Yaks. Lots of war Yaks. Because never not war Yaks.     

On an unrelated note do you know if FD races will marry and/or reproduce once they become citizens? My current fort is, I think, the last outpost of a fallen civilization and after two years I seem to be stuck at 16 Dwarves. No migrants, no caravans, but I'm getting plenty of visitors who want to stay. I find the idea of a Dwarven civilization rising from the ashes in the form of hundreds of naturalized badger men to be extremely entertaining, and the idea of them having kids who are all like, "what, we're just striped dwarves yo!" to be even funnier.
Title: Re: [0.43.02] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 17, 2016, 10:33:55 pm
So I'm finally getting some decent testing in on FD races spurring animals; I kept getting forts in places where I just couldn't get enough FD mercs as residents to make it happen. Also, note this is without your latest update installed.

It seems to work well. If left around animals the FD races will spur them often enough that the process can be put to planned use. I have had the best luck so far with pasturing animals I want to use in combat in the barracks. The animals do indefinitely retain the fearlessness and aggression.

The only drawback is that over time the beloved pets of my Dwarves will come in contact long enough to get spurred. I just had a goat attack a rattlesnake and die from massive necrosis because it kept fighting through a dozen bites. It seems like somebody's peacock is always charging in screaming rage at a Jabberer or something. That works out about how you would expect, but at least it helps keep FPS up!

So, with the basics of the thing worked out, I plan on performing the following tests:

1. Pit a hundred spurred cavies and toss naked goblins in. See what happens.
2. Cave Croc weaponization program. They don't seem super inclined to run anyway, so I want to see if it makes them more effective.
3. War Yaks. Lots of war Yaks. Because never not war Yaks.     

On an unrelated note do you know if FD races will marry and/or reproduce once they become citizens? My current fort is, I think, the last outpost of a fallen civilization and after two years I seem to be stuck at 16 Dwarves. No migrants, no caravans, but I'm getting plenty of visitors who want to stay. I find the idea of a Dwarven civilization rising from the ashes in the form of hundreds of naturalized badger men to be extremely entertaining, and the idea of them having kids who are all like, "what, we're just striped dwarves yo!" to be even funnier.

Excellent to see the training goes well. I actually increased the range of spurring a lot to see what happens in the latest version.

I have seen people test married naturalized citizens and find that they can have children who will be full-fledged fortress members. If you can get two single bards who are willing to marry and naturalize, you might be able to get a non-dwarf second generation.

Weee, I contributed! Also, here are some more. I was planning on holding them up until I finish all of them, but I'm excited about the 'bigger' races. Their weapons are bigger and that shirtless giant wrestler though. Lol.

giant - (http://i.imgur.com/PvlBsAH.png)
minotaur - (http://i.imgur.com/I63xL7b.png)
white tiger - (http://i.imgur.com/PlLMO6y.png)

These are also quite robust and fill out the tiles nicely with color, giving a good impression of the tankiness of the enemies! I suspect in the future many a fortress will be crushed by ginger giant beefcake ;) When you finish the rest of the series, I'll add them into the next release. Thank you for standardizing the positions of the tiles; it really makes adding new tile raws much faster.
Title: Re: [0.43.02] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: Meph on May 17, 2016, 10:40:58 pm
Quote
I have seen people test married naturalized citizens and find that they can have children who will be full-fledged fortress members. If you can get two single bards who are willing to marry and naturalize, you might be able to get a non-dwarf second generation.
do you know if a creature can marry a different creature? Like a tigerman bard who marries a dwarf.
Title: Re: [0.43.02] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 19, 2016, 09:30:25 pm
Quote
I have seen people test married naturalized citizens and find that they can have children who will be full-fledged fortress members. If you can get two single bards who are willing to marry and naturalize, you might be able to get a non-dwarf second generation.
do you know if a creature can marry a different creature? Like a tigerman bard who marries a dwarf.

As far as I know, this is impossible.
Title: Re: [0.43.02] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: Urlance Woolsbane on May 19, 2016, 09:47:51 pm
Quote
I have seen people test married naturalized citizens and find that they can have children who will be full-fledged fortress members. If you can get two single bards who are willing to marry and naturalize, you might be able to get a non-dwarf second generation.
do you know if a creature can marry a different creature? Like a tigerman bard who marries a dwarf.

As far as I know, this is impossible.
The closest thing that I know of is when an already married creature is polymorped. The transformation does not prevent further children.

EDIT: At least in world-gen, that is. I've no idea how it would play out in Fortress Mode.
Title: Re: [0.43.02] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 21, 2016, 11:08:25 pm
Quote
I have seen people test married naturalized citizens and find that they can have children who will be full-fledged fortress members. If you can get two single bards who are willing to marry and naturalize, you might be able to get a non-dwarf second generation.
do you know if a creature can marry a different creature? Like a tigerman bard who marries a dwarf.

As far as I know, this is impossible.
The closest thing that I know of is when an already married creature is polymorped. The transformation does not prevent further children.

EDIT: At least in world-gen, that is. I've no idea how it would play out in Fortress Mode.

I guess if you really wanted to do it, you could have an interaction with invaders that turns you into them when they greet you. It would be a one-time transformation because permanently transformed creatures can no longer transform.

By the way, there is a Fortress Defense race that already does that.
Title: Re: [0.43.02] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on May 22, 2016, 05:11:30 pm
I may have some useful data on the disappearing army problem for you. I had several in my previous fort, and though I deleted the save to load today's release (I'm dumb, sorry!) something happened which was interesting. Two of the disappearing armies were Great Fiend Spiders... and each spider dropped a bag during the few ticks he was on the map. On a related note, I have been attacked by GFS crossbowmen without crossbows repeatedly, which leads me to think they can't hold stuff?

If so, is it possible that snatchers are being chosen as either the leaders or the entire membership of armies? If they arrive as an army they would be instantly revealed when they hit the map, and instantly flee. If GFS can't hold things then their snatchers would appear with bags, drop them, and vanish.

Also, loading up the latest release of FD onto the latest version of DF now, so more feedback on spurring is pending.
Title: Re: [0.43.02] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 23, 2016, 01:40:16 am
I may have some useful data on the disappearing army problem for you. I had several in my previous fort, and though I deleted the save to load today's release (I'm dumb, sorry!) something happened which was interesting. Two of the disappearing armies were Great Fiend Spiders... and each spider dropped a bag during the few ticks he was on the map. On a related note, I have been attacked by GFS crossbowmen without crossbows repeatedly, which leads me to think they can't hold stuff?

If so, is it possible that snatchers are being chosen as either the leaders or the entire membership of armies? If they arrive as an army they would be instantly revealed when they hit the map, and instantly flee. If GFS can't hold things then their snatchers would appear with bags, drop them, and vanish.

Also, loading up the latest release of FD onto the latest version of DF now, so more feedback on spurring is pending.

Looking forward to your testing! :D

I have a pet theory that the GCS crossbowmen are so assigned because of archer skill due to their knowing how to shot web. I consider it an easter egg. ^_^
Though they should have custom profession names to mask the obvious mismatch.

The data you report on snatchers causing disappearing sieges squares with my own experiences during testing. However, since implementing snatching behavior is semi-required to guarantee hostile civs, I am not sure if I can currently repair it with my available resources.

Nevertheless, since this bug afflicts the present implementation of vanilla goblins, if this bug is reported and fixed it will also no longer occur in Fortress Defense civs.
Title: Re: [0.43.02] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on May 25, 2016, 10:54:11 am
Hey, just a minor bug with the FD races to report. I had a Greater Badger Countess consort decide to petition for residence in my fort as a Soldier. That part is working fine, she is training with my military and so on. Problem is for whatever reason she has no description at all. Only reason I know she is a badger is the icon and the description of her fur color under her attributes. For a picture of what I mean see the link below.

(http://i.imgur.com/mdjZd9b.png?1)
Title: Re: [0.43.02] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 25, 2016, 08:45:11 pm
That is a really strange bug. Did she always have no description or was it erased after an event like becoming a resident of the fort?
Title: Re: [0.43.02] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: Tarsis on May 26, 2016, 10:46:55 am
I'm just going to leave this here.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


I see terror....
Title: Re: [0.43.02] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on May 26, 2016, 12:38:28 pm
That is a really strange bug. Did she always have no description or was it erased after an event like becoming a resident of the fort?

I do not know, I didn't check before the petition. If I get another noble type immigrant I will be sure to look. This is likely since after an unfortunate series of events my intrepid badger countess-spouse has about a dozen infected wounds. Are Pandashi really good climbers, because they came up the all like freakin spiderman...

In other news, spurring continues to be a source of hilarity. Fearless violent pets add a whole new level of entertainment to the game; I just had a (disarmed) fury escape during... processing... and run wild in the fortress for a bit. Before losing a duel to the death with a stray piglet. Feisty little oinker kicked its skull in just prior to expiring from blood loss. I'm engraving a slab.
Title: Re: [0.43.02] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 27, 2016, 12:28:36 am
That is a really strange bug. Did she always have no description or was it erased after an event like becoming a resident of the fort?

I do not know, I didn't check before the petition. If I get another noble type immigrant I will be sure to look. This is likely since after an unfortunate series of events my intrepid badger countess-spouse has about a dozen infected wounds. Are Pandashi really good climbers, because they came up the all like freakin spiderman...

In other news, spurring continues to be a source of hilarity. Fearless violent pets add a whole new level of entertainment to the game; I just had a (disarmed) fury escape during... processing... and run wild in the fortress for a bit. Before losing a duel to the death with a stray piglet. Feisty little oinker kicked its skull in just prior to expiring from blood loss. I'm engraving a slab.

That bug is going to be difficult to find. I'm going to see if it gets reproduced outside the mod as well and try to isolate once more data comes in.

Since flying is bugged, many fortress defense races are instead excellent climbers. It just helps them reach you, but doesn't make them better fighters once they do. That's what the full plate is for.

I'm glad to see that spurring continues to provide !!!FUN!!! for the !!!FAMILY!!!.

I'm just going to leave this here.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


I see terror....

This wouldn't happen if the snake people were hostile to you (I assume you're playing a babysnatcher race?). Then the nightmares and brush titans would be leading the sieges instead of the caravans, as they rightly should.
Title: Re: [0.43.02] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: Tarsis on May 27, 2016, 11:26:08 am
No dark, that was Meph setting up procedurally generated monsters to live in civs... I'd like to think Titans and such would be neat with Fort Defense.
Title: Re: [0.43.02] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 27, 2016, 06:26:48 pm
No dark, that was Meph setting up procedurally generated monsters to live in civs... I'd like to think Titans and such would be neat with Fort Defense.

It's worth a thought, but I'll have to look into the state of Meph's exports first. If he set them up in a single entity with a thousand castes, that's most of the work done for me.
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on May 27, 2016, 07:19:58 pm
Another bug for you. I had a white tiger-man petition to be in my military, and I accepted. He joined and started training, took orders and a room from the Tavern, and even fought the dreaded war elephant menace! I started to pay a bit of attention to him due to the wounds from that, and I found that he was basically a domestic animal. And I could set him to be slaughtered. So I did, and my dwarves took him to the butchers shop and carved him like a ham.

I savescummed so if you want the save with that in it I can provide it.
Title: Re: [0.43.02] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: Putnam on May 27, 2016, 09:27:19 pm
That is a really strange bug. Did she always have no description or was it erased after an event like becoming a resident of the fort?

...I see no bug there, that's what it always looks like. The creature description is in the thoughts and preferences screen.

Quote
I have seen people test married naturalized citizens and find that they can have children who will be full-fledged fortress members. If you can get two single bards who are willing to marry and naturalize, you might be able to get a non-dwarf second generation.
do you know if a creature can marry a different creature? Like a tigerman bard who marries a dwarf.

As far as I know, this is impossible.
The closest thing that I know of is when an already married creature is polymorped. The transformation does not prevent further children.

EDIT: At least in world-gen, that is. I've no idea how it would play out in Fortress Mode.

In my experience, it causes crashes. Might be if they're actually polymorphed instead of actually a different species, lol.
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: darkflagrance on May 27, 2016, 10:14:28 pm
Another bug for you. I had a white tiger-man petition to be in my military, and I accepted. He joined and started training, took orders and a room from the Tavern, and even fought the dreaded war elephant menace! I started to pay a bit of attention to him due to the wounds from that, and I found that he was basically a domestic animal. And I could set him to be slaughtered. So I did, and my dwarves took him to the butchers shop and carved him like a ham.

I savescummed so if you want the save with that in it I can provide it.

Was he delicious? I for one am glad to do my part to encourage dwarven sentient consumption.

It's probably due to the PET_EXOTIC tag which I kept as a reminder of the reason why I was inspired to add Tigermen in the first place: because elves would bring sentient creatures with clothing and occupations as caged pets. A save can't hurt, although if any friendly Tigerman can be butchered like livestock it might not be necessary.

You could also try removing the pet tags and seeing if the option goes away.
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: Sardan on June 03, 2016, 03:24:30 pm
Quick question I'm on year four in Fortress Defense mod and still no invasion. I have some War Elephants and within 6 wold map tiles and some beak wolves less then a dozen or so away.  Is this normal. Year is 260 and there are still 34 civs
 Thanks
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on June 03, 2016, 06:47:26 pm
That sucks man, and its really strange. Played a dozen FD forts now and never had something like that happen. What is your population exactly, and your exported wealth?

For contrast I'm on year three in my current fort and I just got a siege by the Ruthertaurs, who had conquered a bunch of badger man and war elephant sites so they attacked with all three races in their army. Then they were ambushed by about fifty ferric elves pretty much at my front gate, who were hostile to all parties. A horrific three way mele ensued after all ammunition was expended trying to bring the elephants down. The survivors are still trying to get all the corpses dumped. 
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: Sardan on June 03, 2016, 07:49:52 pm
I guess I need to start exporting some wealth maybe  :)


(http://i.imgur.com/4IpLsJd.png?1)
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: darkflagrance on June 03, 2016, 11:19:59 pm
You can definitely try exporting wealth and getting the word out that your fort is worth attacking.

Also, rarely enemies can take as many as five years to start attacking - four years is not too improbable in the current version, unfortunately.

Furthermore, depending on your settings you may unintentionally discourage sieges (worlds with many oceans, few civ sites, and smaller populations)
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: RocheLimit on June 04, 2016, 03:41:33 pm
Hey, I'm still playing that older version of fortress defense (where fiend spiders were a piece of cake) and am currently trying to roast me a Jotunar siege.  Only, they aren't roasting!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The only thing that has ignited is the leather breastplate the leader of the Jotunar attack is wearing.

I know they're supposed to be fire and magma immune.  But I don't see that they have the [FIREIMMUNE_SUPER] tag that dragons do and read on the wiki that it should affect creatures and items that are normally immune to fire.  What can I do to make them vulnerable to fire for future sieges?
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: darkflagrance on June 04, 2016, 04:47:57 pm
Might have to do with the following tags:

   [SELECT_MATERIAL:ALL]
      [COLDDAM_POINT:NONE]
      [HEATDAM_POINT:NONE]
      [IGNITE_POINT:NONE]
      [IF_EXISTS_SET_MELTING_POINT:15000]
      [IF_EXISTS_SET_BOILING_POINT:20000]


The last four especially.
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: RocheLimit on June 04, 2016, 10:18:00 pm
I have gone into the raws and set HeatDam_Point and Ignite_Point to 15000.  While it won't affect the Jotunar already on the embark and in the trap, will future attacks use that number or will a new world have to be genned for the change to take effect?
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: darkflagrance on June 06, 2016, 02:24:53 pm
I have gone into the raws and set HeatDam_Point and Ignite_Point to 15000.  While it won't affect the Jotunar already on the embark and in the trap, will future attacks use that number or will a new world have to be genned for the change to take effect?

They will at least affect new spawns if they don't already affect the ones on map.
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: YetAnotherLurker on June 08, 2016, 01:20:48 pm
Woo, finally got the forums to actually accept my registration! So, I've got a whole list of things from my current 42.06 fort running FDII Rv18.

Sieges are sometimes failing to path towards my fortress correctly. Not sure if this is due to vanilla siege behavior or something that can be fixed with raw modding, though. It appears to be an unwillingness to abandon a dead squad leader. Had several siege forces of Hellfire Imps park themselves at the map edge for several months, despite an invitingly open entrance. At least three of these stuck sieges were ambushed immediately upon arrival by a simultaneously arriving force of Warwolves, War Elephants, or Frog Demons. After sitting at my map edge for several months killing my FPS by roasting the occasional passing Emu and lighting the entire surface forest on fire, they quietly left.

I think my latest invading force of Hellfire Imps is, in fact, led by a horse. Said horse currently appears to be random-walking rather than pathing towards my entrance, but that could change, and at least they're moving. That said, I haven't noticed the horse being spurred yet, so there's a pretty good chance of it being scared off upon noticing one of my numerous distracted tree-roosting emus or keas if it doesn't manage to get tagged soon.

Also, I think you made a mistake with the graphics raws. I haven't checked all the raws carefully, but it appears as though you offset all the weaponed sprite positions by 1. Remember, in the sprite sheet there's no separate image for recruits and default, they both share the position 0 image, and the position 1 image is wrestlers.

Spurring is an endless source of entertainment, though the fact that it shows up as a Combat report in the log is slightly annoying. A large animal population combined with lots of visitors means constantly rechecking the logs to see if the latest red C is an animal being spurred or actual combat. Is it possible to make it count as sparring for purposes of reporting instead? Anyway, I've had a weremoose mobbed to death by a flock of dozens of tame Keas, as well as the entirety of two (passage-linked) caverns explored as the result of a pair of tame Peregrines chasing a Crundle for years. My first crop of Cave Crocodiles is nearing maturity as well, which ought to be fun.

Some FD races seem to have issues claiming and/or using beds. I've noticed some of my Nagas and Badgermen taking naps on the floor of my dormitories despite dozens of unclaimed bedrooms both location-assigned and unassigned and sleep-assigned barracks. The barracks in question are outdoors and roofed with green glass retracting bridges though, so they may be affected by the inside/outside characteristic. Possibly related, many of my FD race mercenaries are rather obstinately refusing medical care. Badgers seem to be particularly prone to this, I've had many with multiple broken limbs, open wounds, and raging systemic infections continue training until they died of infection years later.

Some FD races may be too small for their weapons. I first noticed it when my Naga mercenaries refused to equip assigned Longswords. Not sure if it applies to invaders though, and I haven't checked to see which races have oversized weapons available to their entity entries. Notably, I believe Nagas are in fact too small to use Pikes, Halberds, or Longswords (Adult size 50k vs 62.5k/62.5k/52.5k required respectively, all of which are available.

Regarding naturalization, I've yet to acquire any FD races as anything other than Mercenaries so far. I've had a few Naga and Tigerman scholars visit, but not petition though.
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: darkflagrance on June 09, 2016, 10:19:37 pm
Quote
Woo, finally got the forums to actually accept my registration! So, I've got a whole list of things from my current 42.06 fort running FDII Rv18.

Congratulations! I'm glad to see you are enjoying the mod, and I appreciate your detailed feedback. I'm still giving what you've said some thought; I'm considering your suggestions while I plan the next version and see how to resolve the bugs/potential flaws you brought up. The posts of this mod's users literally affect the content of each version.

Quote
Sieges are sometimes failing to path towards my fortress correctly. Not sure if this is due to vanilla siege behavior or something that can be fixed with raw modding, though. It appears to be an unwillingness to abandon a dead squad leader. Had several siege forces of Hellfire Imps park themselves at the map edge for several months, despite an invitingly open entrance. At least three of these stuck sieges were ambushed immediately upon arrival by a simultaneously arriving force of Warwolves, War Elephants, or Frog Demons. After sitting at my map edge for several months killing my FPS by roasting the occasional passing Emu and lighting the entire surface forest on fire, they quietly left.

This is indeed a vanilla pathfinding bug. I assume Toady plans to fix it when he makes the sieges more dynamic in the future.

Quote
Also, I think you made a mistake with the graphics raws. I haven't checked all the raws carefully, but it appears as though you offset all the weaponed sprite positions by 1. Remember, in the sprite sheet there's no separate image for recruits and default, they both share the position 0 image, and the position 1 image is wrestlers.

I'll take another look at it this weekend perhaps; life is killing me right now. If someone can confirm whether or not the sprites are incorrectly offset, that would help a great deal.

Quote
Spurring is an endless source of entertainment, though the fact that it shows up as a Combat report in the log is slightly annoying. A large animal population combined with lots of visitors means constantly rechecking the logs to see if the latest red C is an animal being spurred or actual combat. Is it possible to make it count as sparring for purposes of reporting instead? Anyway, I've had a weremoose mobbed to death by a flock of dozens of tame Keas, as well as the entirety of two (passage-linked) caverns explored as the result of a pair of tame Peregrines chasing a Crundle for years. My first crop of Cave Crocodiles is nearing maturity as well, which ought to be fun.

It might be possible to make the interaction not show up in combat logs; I'll have to do some research into that. Other than that, I like to see the !!!FUN!!! that results from berserk carnage.

Quote
Some FD races seem to have issues claiming and/or using beds. I've noticed some of my Nagas and Badgermen taking naps on the floor of my dormitories despite dozens of unclaimed bedrooms both location-assigned and unassigned and sleep-assigned barracks. The barracks in question are outdoors and roofed with green glass retracting bridges though, so they may be affected by the inside/outside characteristic. Possibly related, many of my FD race mercenaries are rather obstinately refusing medical care. Badgers seem to be particularly prone to this, I've had many with multiple broken limbs, open wounds, and raging systemic infections continue training until they died of infection years later.

I've had this happen to fortress citizens as well whose personalities made them love fighting and have high discipline. It might be a vanilla behavior that affects mercs more because they tend to be less skilled and armored and thus more injury-prone.

Quote
Some FD races may be too small for their weapons. I first noticed it when my Naga mercenaries refused to equip assigned Longswords. Not sure if it applies to invaders though, and I haven't checked to see which races have oversized weapons available to their entity entries. Notably, I believe Nagas are in fact too small to use Pikes, Halberds, or Longswords (Adult size 50k vs 62.5k/62.5k/52.5k required respectively, all of which are available.

Maybe I'll double the size of Nagas in the next version, along with altering their names. That should handily solve the problems you mentioned and make them a little more fun to boot.

Quote
Regarding naturalization, I've yet to acquire any FD races as anything other than Mercenaries so far. I've had a few Naga and Tigerman scholars visit, but not petition though.

Checking the raws, I think FD races can currently only come as mercs, it seems.
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on June 12, 2016, 12:45:12 pm
So I'm playing an absolutely fascinating fortress here. My dwarf civ is dying (king in the first year yayyyyy!) though I still get migrants every once in a while. That being said, I'm close to a very strong badger man civ, and I get TONS of badger men. So many they are my whole military, minus squad leaders.

There does seem to be a minor bug though. They are all showing tired in the wounds screen, despite owning rooms and sleeping in them. This even goes for ones who aren't actively training and just camp out in the tavern. Any idea why that might be? 
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: darkflagrance on June 12, 2016, 05:31:39 pm
So I'm playing an absolutely fascinating fortress here. My dwarf civ is dying (king in the first year yayyyyy!) though I still get migrants every once in a while. That being said, I'm close to a very strong badger man civ, and I get TONS of badger men. So many they are my whole military, minus squad leaders.

There does seem to be a minor bug though. They are all showing tired in the wounds screen, despite owning rooms and sleeping in them. This even goes for ones who aren't actively training and just camp out in the tavern. Any idea why that might be?

One possibility is that they are avoiding sleep due to taking care of other needs or becoming in engaged in sparring/debate/entertainment. Tiredness might also be accumulated from sparring simply by virtue of it being combat, and maybe badgermen are more likely to engage in it than vanilla dwarves. Any other mercenaries showing this problem?
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on June 12, 2016, 08:07:04 pm
Allright, here is what I know:

1. I am only getting badger men as mercs, so this is confined to them as a data set.
2. They are sleeping in their bedrooms which were assigned to the tavern. This does not remove tiredness for mercenaries assigned to a squad (I think, still testing).
3. Mercenaries not part of a squad seep to sleep everywhere just fine, including in dormitories and on grass.

More to follow as I figure it out.
 
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: darkflagrance on June 12, 2016, 09:19:53 pm
Allright, here is what I know:

1. I am only getting badger men as mercs, so this is confined to them as a data set.
2. They are sleeping in their bedrooms which were assigned to the tavern. This does not remove tiredness for mercenaries assigned to a squad (I think, still testing).
3. Mercenaries not part of a squad seep to sleep everywhere just fine, including in dormitories and on grass.

More to follow as I figure it out.
 

This might be a vanilla bug, if mercs don't use their beds to actually sleep.
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on June 13, 2016, 11:44:12 am
Allrighty, still working on figuring out what's going on here. A few more observations:

1. I can confirm they are using the beds to sleep. They go into their (tavern assigned) rooms properly, and go to sleep on the beds. I made sure a couple weren't interrupted, and they stayed tired after they woke up.

2. There have been forgotten beasts, so there is a chance this could be some kind of syndrome? I think it's unlikely since they were a long time ago and none of the impacted badger men have any beast related stuff on them, but further testing is required to rule it out 100%.

3. My best guess is once a badger man merc arrived in the fort they just become unable to get the benefits of resting for some reason, since the new arrivals do not have this problem... but I haven't been super specific about keeping track of how long they have been here. I'm doing that now though, so I should generate some data.

4. I'm waiting for one to apply for full citizenship to see if that fixes the issue. More to follow when that happens.

5. I was attacked by eighty raptor men riding horses. I'm trying to picture that, and it's not working.
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: darkflagrance on June 14, 2016, 08:28:30 pm
Allrighty, still working on figuring out what's going on here. A few more observations:

1. I can confirm they are using the beds to sleep. They go into their (tavern assigned) rooms properly, and go to sleep on the beds. I made sure a couple weren't interrupted, and they stayed tired after they woke up.

2. There have been forgotten beasts, so there is a chance this could be some kind of syndrome? I think it's unlikely since they were a long time ago and none of the impacted badger men have any beast related stuff on them, but further testing is required to rule it out 100%.

3. My best guess is once a badger man merc arrived in the fort they just become unable to get the benefits of resting for some reason, since the new arrivals do not have this problem... but I haven't been super specific about keeping track of how long they have been here. I'm doing that now though, so I should generate some data.

4. I'm waiting for one to apply for full citizenship to see if that fixes the issue. More to follow when that happens.

5. I was attacked by eighty raptor men riding horses. I'm trying to picture that, and it's not working.

Maybe it's related to noise propagation? I remember in earlier versions things like construction, mining, smoothing, or workshops would create noise that would disturb sleep/leave a bad thought. I need to find some time to do some science of my own. Maybe posting the save would help.

Also
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/mgowgifbceezmpdullli.gif)
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on June 15, 2016, 12:18:58 am
Stupid question but I don't have time to figure this out because the wife and kid both just got sick. What is the utility for uploading a save again? Don't want to put a bugged mod save into the master bug tracker and have Toady end up wasting his time poking at it.
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: YetAnotherLurker on June 15, 2016, 01:52:28 am
Um. Don't mercenaries remain mercenaries forever without petitioning for citizenship, or has that been changed in 0.43?

Anyway, if it's not a noise issue, it sounds like a forgotten beast syndrome is the likely culprit. Syndromes can have permanent effects that persist even after washing off all dust/extract/blood/whatever. My last fort had my entire spear squad permanently feverish and blistered for well over a decade, though without blood loss or any other effects, due to taking on a Deadly Dust-laden FB. This is despite them passing through a Dwarven Bathtub in my cavern access hallway. I believe there's a DFHack script or plugin that lets you check syndromes on a unit. I've had issues with mercenaries refusing to use beds and napping on barracks floors, but I don't think I've ever spotted one that was tired after resting.

Presumably you can toss the zipped save up on dffd.bay12games.com, though a third-party file host like mega.nz or something may be better.

As for the sprites, I'll recheck them all in a few days when I have the time and inclination.

Regarding FD races as visitors, I've had Tigermen, Pandashi, Naga, Furies, Badgermen, Ferric Elves, and War Elephants show up as mercenaries. Scholars are a bit tougher to remember, but I'm fairly sure I've seen Tigermen, Pandashi, Naga, Frogmen, Ferric Elves, and Badgermen. The only FD entertainers I've seen are a pair of Frogmen that arrived as part of a performance troupe that included a Ferric Elf and a couple of humans and goblins. Also, I've now seen Badgermen and Pandashi necromancers; a single one of the latter leading about three dozen assorted zombies led to my current fort reaching a low of two surviving dwarves before eventual recovery. It turns out a Martial Trance-capable necromancer that's larger than a dwarf is significantly more difficult to assassinate than a vanilla necromancer. Various FD races were also represented in the zombie horde.
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: darkflagrance on June 16, 2016, 08:32:46 pm
Stupid question but I don't have time to figure this out because the wife and kid both just got sick. What is the utility for uploading a save again? Don't want to put a bugged mod save into the master bug tracker and have Toady end up wasting his time poking at it.

Create an account here (http://dffd.bay12games.com/) and then upload a file. It will give you a link you can then post.

Actually, if you can just send me the gamelog.txt file that might be enough to see if a forgotten beast cause it via syndrome.

I'm personally waiting until the weekend to test. My current job requires me to work till 7, and it takes me almost 2 hours to get home...
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on June 17, 2016, 12:31:59 am
Complete save here: http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=12151

Fortress is happy, reasonably well stocked, and the lever in the dining room opens and closes the front doors. 
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: darkflagrance on June 19, 2016, 11:50:50 pm
Complete save here: http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=12151

Fortress is happy, reasonably well stocked, and the lever in the dining room opens and closes the front doors.

I'm sorry for the delay, but I can't get the save to work for some reason. I've tried loading it up in 42.06 and 43.02, but DF doesn't seem to locate it in the save folder.

I haven't been able to replicate tired mercenaries in my own forts.
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on June 20, 2016, 10:16:49 am
Huh. Well, all I did was zip it and rename it, but maybe I screwed something else up on this end. If you can't replecate the bug I'll start a new fort in the same world/biome and see if it comes back up. If I can't get it to happen in the new fort then there must be a puddle of forgotten beast goo somewhere that they keep stepping in.
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: darkflagrance on June 21, 2016, 12:52:29 am
Huh. Well, all I did was zip it and rename it, but maybe I screwed something else up on this end. If you can't replecate the bug I'll start a new fort in the same world/biome and see if it comes back up. If I can't get it to happen in the new fort then there must be a puddle of forgotten beast goo somewhere that they keep stepping in.

If you can post the gamelog I can look through it to see if there were forgotten beasts mentioned - although dollars to dimes that txt file will be bigger than the save you previously uploaded.

I'm thinking of revamping the current version anyway to address the potential for full armor in the current version. No longer will War Elephants go into battle bare-trunked!

Gonna have some free time later this week that can hopefully be poured into modding/save hacking.
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: YetAnotherLurker on June 21, 2016, 01:59:22 am
New discovery: Wagons can be spurred.

Currently 8th year of my latest fort, with a military composed almost entirely of mercenaries on account of being cut off from the mountainhome. Have yet to see a tired mercenary that failed to be restored by sleep. Almost certainly your issue is due to a long-term forgotten beast syndrome. Oh, and uh... did you rename it before or after you zipped it? Quite likely the renaming is what's causing it to fail to load; what was it originally called?

As for War Elephant trunks, can they wear a gauntlet on their trunk? Not sure how parts are defined in relation to armor, but seeing as Naga tails are valid for wearing a single boot...

Oh, and there are definitely some sprite position errors. As before though, too busy to want to spend my limited free time going crosseyed checking each one... I swear I'll get around to it eventually! For that matter, what happens if you define a sprite for a caste/profession that isn't defined for the creature/entity itself? For example, if you stick a line defining a sprite for a Tiger Blowgunner into the graphics raws, will it cause problems? If not, it'd probably be simpler and better to just rewrite the whole thing with an entry for each of the 26 weapons, in order, so it's easier to work with in the future.
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: darkflagrance on June 21, 2016, 11:01:29 pm
New discovery: Wagons can be spurred.

Currently 8th year of my latest fort, with a military composed almost entirely of mercenaries on account of being cut off from the mountainhome. Have yet to see a tired mercenary that failed to be restored by sleep. Almost certainly your issue is due to a long-term forgotten beast syndrome. Oh, and uh... did you rename it before or after you zipped it? Quite likely the renaming is what's causing it to fail to load; what was it originally called?

As for War Elephant trunks, can they wear a gauntlet on their trunk? Not sure how parts are defined in relation to armor, but seeing as Naga tails are valid for wearing a single boot...

Oh, and there are definitely some sprite position errors. As before though, too busy to want to spend my limited free time going crosseyed checking each one... I swear I'll get around to it eventually! For that matter, what happens if you define a sprite for a caste/profession that isn't defined for the creature/entity itself? For example, if you stick a line defining a sprite for a Tiger Blowgunner into the graphics raws, will it cause problems? If not, it'd probably be simpler and better to just rewrite the whole thing with an entry for each of the 26 weapons, in order, so it's easier to work with in the future.

War Elephants would indeed wear trunk gauntlets. I could define a sprite for a Tiger blowgunner - it would come up if the tiger was recruited by a civ with access to blow guns.

Whether or not I do sprites for all 26 weapons, I will still need to remap the current sprites as well. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on June 24, 2016, 11:08:42 am
Hey Darkflagrance, only peripherally related to FD but this guy could use your help and I wanted to be sure you got the message. See this thread:

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=158949.0

He wants to make a race of animal servant people, and I think your tigermen exactly fit the bill for what he's looking for. Right down to being butcherable delicious when cooked with some Quarry Bush leaves.   
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: arbarbonif on June 26, 2016, 07:47:17 pm
So I just had a fort wiped out by Pandashi in the first winter.  I had 18 dwarves (2 military that had been training for 2 months). They had 8 siegers.  They went through me like a lightsaber through butter.  I don't believe I gave them a wound.

I'm wondering if the triggers were changed. I thought setting a trigger to 0 turned it off, so looking at the raws suggests they shouldn't attack until I had 20 dwarves. You might want to dial that back a bit.
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: YetAnotherLurker on June 27, 2016, 12:57:49 am
I've never had a FD race attack quite that early, except in the form of necromancers.

It's possible, even probable, you got hit by a worldgen army that was heading elsewhere and happened to cross your embark. Alternatively, bandit group? Not sure how those work. Pandashi are supposed to be tier 4 (late) siegers, after all.

I don't think spurring is working for siegers as it's meant to. The latest force of 80ish badgermen cavalry to attack my fortress dissolved into chaos when my crossbowmen shot a few horses from the gate tower. Ironically, this actually led to the attack being more successful than the previous two, as the now-panicked horses rushed my southern gate tunnel in an attempt to path through to the other side of the map, carrying their furious badgermen riders with them. Panicked horses run significantly faster than non-panicked ones, and quite a few managed to rush past my mustered military into my lever room (note to self: put levers further from gate tunnel) and prevent me from sealing the gates or dropping the tunnel floor. End result, lost a dozen candy-clad military dwarves and a handful of unfortunate civilians. Also had one injured horse leave a trail of blood some 300 units long along a winding path from my southern gateway, up 10 levels of stairs to my farming level, across my fields, back down another 20 levels to my forge level, back up to the entrance level, and 3/4 of the way out of my western tunnel before finally bleeding out. The rider escaped  >:(
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on June 28, 2016, 10:15:25 am
Allright, finally got a bit more data on the tired mercenary bug. Short version is it's badger man specific, but since they were the only mercs I got in the first fort I saw it I didn't notice. I have now replicated across three forts, and in every one badger man mercenaries never stop being tired. Tiger men, humans, and nagas behave normally. The following steps were taken to confirm this:

- All mercs were coddled in the back of the fort away from hostiles. My lazy dwarven militant got to take care of business when it was required. 
- Mercs were assigned to mixed squads with arrival dates noted as control groups. Naga men who have been on hand longer than badgers are fine, badgers are tired.
- No forgotten beasts were interacted with at any time (minus a hairy shrimp that had no syndrome attack and was kinda in the way, but the dwarves handed that and they are fine).
- Bug is common to honey badger and greater badger men.

On an unrelated note, spurring by mercs for their non-war animals is not happening often enough to be combat relevant as mentioned above. On the other hand the resulting panic scatter by invaders can be more of an issue than if they behaved predictably, also as noted above. Got a squad cut up real bad when they got split into ones and twos chasing mounted badger men all over the map, and some of them got dogpiled by like fifty hostiles in the corners.
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: YetAnotherLurker on June 28, 2016, 11:53:15 am
Badgers continue to refuse all medical treatment. Tigermen seem to be slightly better, but only slightly, in that I've actually seen them go to the hospital and occasionally even get sutured before walking off with their broken arms. I've got one mercenary count consort whose neck and left arm have been broken for nigh a decade, with no apparent ill effects. I think I may have to rig a few cave-ins to try and get them hospitalized.

I've also gone and rechecked all of my badger mercenaries across three 42.06 forts, and fearlesslittletoaster is right about them being Tired. My apologies for doubting you. Note that I've yet to see any of them progress past Tired after resting, but they also remain at Tired even immediately after waking up from sleeping in their own rooms (both manually assigned and tavern-assigned), in their own beds. I haven't seen anything to contradict FLT's observations so far.

Also, I got my first badgerman full citizen! A resident multiracial performance troupe (Goblin poet, Human lady consort, Badgerwoman dancer) petitioned for citizenship. Her left hand is smashed open and broken as the result of a weregecko attack though, and she's also refused all medical attention. I hope she doesn't die to an infection, I like my dancing badger. Undecided on whether I want her to remain a dancer, or put her in charge of an all-badger squad... Worth noting, she does not appear to be suffering from the same tiredness issue as the mercenary badgermen. I'll keep checking up on her and see if anything happens.

Oh, and the badgerman necromancer I captured years ago doesn't appear to be able to do any, well, necromancy. I can't recall if he did any raising of the dead during his actual attack, or if his pandashi companion did all the work. I'm not sure if I'm setting things up correctly though, as this is my first necromancer. Can all corpses be raised, or are there requirements as to things like freshness, race, etc? Can they raise the dead while chained or through fortifications, or do I need to set up a moat/pit arrangement?

EDIT: I finally got off my lazy ass and went through the graphics raws for all of dead's lovely sprites. Main issues seemed to be page dimension being off (26, not 25, this one doesn't start with 0), and at least one misassigned coordinate. I just went ahead and redid everything in the order they appear, and assigned the dagger sprite to thief. Here's a single file that contains all of them, with some renaming to make things a bit more clear for future editors as well. It should replace all of the graphics_dead_(X), though naturally you can split it up again, I just dislike the clutter.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: darkflagrance on June 28, 2016, 10:02:15 pm
Badgers continue to refuse all medical treatment. Tigermen seem to be slightly better, but only slightly, in that I've actually seen them go to the hospital and occasionally even get sutured before walking off with their broken arms. I've got one mercenary count consort whose neck and left arm have been broken for nigh a decade, with no apparent ill effects. I think I may have to rig a few cave-ins to try and get them hospitalized.

I've also gone and rechecked all of my badger mercenaries across three 42.06 forts, and fearlesslittletoaster is right about them being Tired. My apologies for doubting you. Note that I've yet to see any of them progress past Tired after resting, but they also remain at Tired even immediately after waking up from sleeping in their own rooms (both manually assigned and tavern-assigned), in their own beds. I haven't seen anything to contradict FLT's observations so far.

Also, I got my first badgerman full citizen! A resident multiracial performance troupe (Goblin poet, Human lady consort, Badgerwoman dancer) petitioned for citizenship. Her left hand is smashed open and broken as the result of a weregecko attack though, and she's also refused all medical attention. I hope she doesn't die to an infection, I like my dancing badger. Undecided on whether I want her to remain a dancer, or put her in charge of an all-badger squad... Worth noting, she does not appear to be suffering from the same tiredness issue as the mercenary badgermen. I'll keep checking up on her and see if anything happens.

Oh, and the badgerman necromancer I captured years ago doesn't appear to be able to do any, well, necromancy. I can't recall if he did any raising of the dead during his actual attack, or if his pandashi companion did all the work. I'm not sure if I'm setting things up correctly though, as this is my first necromancer. Can all corpses be raised, or are there requirements as to things like freshness, race, etc? Can they raise the dead while chained or through fortifications, or do I need to set up a moat/pit arrangement?

EDIT: I finally got off my lazy ass and went through the graphics raws for all of dead's lovely sprites. Main issues seemed to be page dimension being off (26, not 25, this one doesn't start with 0), and at least one misassigned coordinate. I just went ahead and redid everything in the order they appear, and assigned the dagger sprite to thief. Here's a single file that contains all of them, with some renaming to make things a bit more clear for future editors as well. It should replace all of the graphics_dead_(X), though naturally you can split it up again, I just dislike the clutter.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Thank you very much YetAnotherLurker! I have adapted your file into the next pending release (with credit).

I have actually never had the chance to SCIENCE on necromancers. I wonder if the Fortress Defense creatures need a tag to actually raise the dead?

If the dancer you mention does not get tired, perhaps the issue is an entity one rather than a creature one, which would explain why I have not been able to resolve the bug thus far. Also, I think the reason she was able to become a full citizen is because she was raised goblin/human, and could thus become a dancer, instead of just a merc if she stayed in the badger civ.

I'm not sure I've seen my own dwarves accept medical care if their bodies naturally healed to the point where they could move. If a red infection occurs, I think that will be inevitably fatal, but otherwise they can just truck through the injury. It may have to do with personality or ethics changes, given that it is creature unique but there are no unusual tags on badgermen compared to other races.



Your entertaining experiences with invaders who use unintentional guerilla tactics are why I have always hesitated to declare that behavior a bug. That said, if the spurring interaction is not always effective, maybe I can improve on it.

I'm still bugfixing without much success, which is why the next version of the mod has been a bit delayed so far. Right now I'm nerfing the Badgerman civilization's currently suicidally high stoicism, hard work, and perseverance ethics and hoping it makes them more willing to use beds.

Edit: If their ethics do cause their current desire to work themselves to exhaustion, I might preserve it as a "feature" resulting from hilarious procedurally generated interactions.
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on June 29, 2016, 12:15:20 am
Badger men do use beds, they just don't get anything out of it. All mine have been observed to sleep in beds in their assigned rooms, they just don't stop being tired after sleeping.

Now, the fact that they wait until they are distracted before so much as going to have a drink is a whole different ball of wax. Also, just because I'm curious, why can't mercs ever become citizens? I wasn't aware of that myself.
Title: Re: [0.43.03] Fortress Defense Mod II R v18: Bonus Race Graphics (Courtesy of dead)!
Post by: YetAnotherLurker on June 29, 2016, 04:11:55 am
No need to credit me, you and dead have done all the real work. You're welcome though!

The Pandashi necromancer that attacked me in the second year was raising the dead left and right with no issues, so I doubt it's that. More likely it's something wrong with my setup for attempted undead training, or maybe something badger-specific. I'll fiddle with it later once my dorfs get done plugging the volcano and obsidianizing the magma sea around the delicious candy, and my FPS recovers.

I'd say the extreme reluctance to seek medical treatment for badgers can be classified as a racial feature, though with perhaps the addition of better natural healing rates to compensate a bit. It seems to fit their personality, anyway, to simply tough out any injury until it heals or doesn't on its own. The main issue is that currently, it seems as though they aren't healing at all, though they also aren't deteriorating unless they also have an infection. Note that this is all in 42.06, though. I like my DFHack/Gemset/TWBT too much to upgrade to 43.x just yet, the changes to healthcare in the latest versions probably will affect things.

I've since received a petition from a Honey Badgerwoman Scholar to join as a citizen as well, and I'm rechecking her and the dancer periodically. Have yet to see any sign of them being afflicted with the same perpetual tiredness as the mercenaries. Checking Legends shows that the dancer is in fact the child of two abductees, born in a Goblin civilization before leaving to join the performance troupe. However, the scholar was born in a badgerman civilization and only left to join my fortress. I'll see what happens if I toss them into a squad later, though.

Mercenaries never petitioning for citizenship is just the way it works, for whatever reason.

Visitors are predominantly badgermen and tigermen, but that's probably a function of my embark preferences and proximity. So far across 4 fortresses:
Badgers: Mercenaries, Scholars, Entertainer (Troupe member, goblin abductee).
Tigermen: Mercenaries, Scholars.
Pandashi: Mercenaries.
Nagas: Mercenaries, Scholars.
Ferric Elves: Mercenaries, Entertainers (Troupe members, unsure on entity)
Frogmen: Entertainer (Troupe members, unsure on entity)
War Elephants: Mercenaries.
Furies: Mercenaries.
I will note that of the mercenaries, Badgermen and Tigermen have been extremely common across all embarks. Pandashi and Naga appear somewhat less so, but that's likely more a function of embark location, as on two of the four I've gotten enough to fill a squad over the the course of a decade or two. I haven't checked in Legends, but I'd say these four races are sending out native mercenaries. The remaining races have been rare enough that they may have been converted abductees. May have to design a custom pocket world to test each race individually to be sure, but again, lazy.

Oh, and side note. Helmet Snake Women claim nestboxes and lay eggs that can be collected and cooked. Shame Nagas are extremely rare in my current fortress, I want to see if I can set up a breeding experiment.
Title: Re: [0.43.04] Fortress Defense Mod II R v19: Full Armor Carnage!
Post by: darkflagrance on July 03, 2016, 07:10:34 am
Since bugtesting is slow, I've uploaded a version with the currently available bugfixes for the new version with full armor.

I have not yet addressed spurring or badgerman resting, but these are relatively minor, if annoying and hard to pin down/get working right.

Oh, and side note. Helmet Snake Women claim nestboxes and lay eggs that can be collected and cooked. Shame Nagas are extremely rare in my current fortress, I want to see if I can set up a breeding experiment.

I attempted my own breeding experiments as well. Having an army of native non-dwarves that bred in large expendable numbers was quite attractive - but it seems the eggs need the presence of the layer's husband to hatch. I hope you experiments prove me wrong.
Title: Re: [0.43.04] Fortress Defense Mod II R v19: Full Armor Carnage!
Post by: Thuellai on July 03, 2016, 08:48:09 am
Having played a different mod with egg-laying sentients, I can confirm that egg layers smart enough to marry must be married and must have their husband on-map and capable of pathing to them in order to be fertile.

It's not *impossible* to breed visiting egg layers, mind - you just have to get lucky and get a husband/wife duo.
Title: Re: [0.43.04] Fortress Defense Mod II R v19: Full Armor Carnage!
Post by: darkflagrance on July 03, 2016, 03:33:34 pm
Having played a different mod with egg-laying sentients, I can confirm that egg layers smart enough to marry must be married and must have their husband on-map and capable of pathing to them in order to be fertile.

It's not *impossible* to breed visiting egg layers, mind - you just have to get lucky and get a husband/wife duo.

The alternative is to hope for some young, similarly aged opposite sex egg layers to become full citizens and then marry, which I was trying to do in my other fort before it was eaten by spiders.
Title: Re: [0.43.04] Fortress Defense Mod II R v19: Full Armor Carnage!
Post by: darkflagrance on July 04, 2016, 05:54:33 am
I have decided to nerf Hellfire Imps. It appears that their dragonfire has gotten more powerful in 43.04 and is no longer as manageable.

Also, it looks like all my mercs are suffering from tiredness in the current version - except the ones that get hideous face-rotting syndromes and go blind.
Title: Re: [0.43.04] Fortress Defense Mod II R v19: Full Armor Carnage!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on July 06, 2016, 10:32:54 am
Oh look, the Nagas are invading. Huh, they got some Furies in there too... and a bunch of humans... and OH GOD WHAT?

(http://i.imgur.com/apPKgnp.png)

There are like twenty of them, and they are fully armed and armored. I think I'm doomed?
Title: Re: [0.43.04] Fortress Defense Mod II R v19: Full Armor Carnage!
Post by: darkflagrance on July 06, 2016, 08:36:21 pm
I have never ever seen plump helmet men picked up as mercenaries before. I assume this means that trolls will also attack fully armored now?

All will fall before the Mushroom Legion!
Title: Re: [0.43.04] Fortress Defense Mod II R v19: Full Armor Carnage!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on July 06, 2016, 09:11:55 pm
So I feel I owe you an update on this... The Naga/Plump helmet man army advanced on my gates as they should, and I was preparing to go down swinging because by Armok there were a lot of the buggers. But then, just before they arrived, they were ambushed by a huge mob of Ferric Elves. The Elves and the Siege had roughly equal numbers and proceeded to obliterate each other in an orgy of violence and terror right under my battlements as my marksdwarves fired indiscriminately into the melee.

As far as I could see the Plump Helmet Men gave a good account of themselves in battle, claiming many elf lives. The siege and the ambushers broke each other at about the same time and limped away, leaving me a map strewn with corpses beyond counting. I'm still gathering weapons and setting up an incinerator to deal with the mess. My new goal is to capture a plump helmet man swordsman in a cage, then install him in the dining room so he can just sit there and radiate silent, eyeless, fungal hatred at my Dwarves forever. Have I mentioned how goddamn much I love your mod? 
Title: Re: [0.43.04] Fortress Defense Mod II R v19: Full Armor Carnage!
Post by: SalmonGod on July 06, 2016, 10:24:17 pm
Spoiler: Army of Mushrooms (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [0.43.04] Fortress Defense Mod II R v19: Full Armor Carnage!
Post by: darkflagrance on July 06, 2016, 11:20:40 pm
So I feel I owe you an update on this... The Naga/Plump helmet man army advanced on my gates as they should, and I was preparing to go down swinging because by Armok there were a lot of the buggers. But then, just before they arrived, they were ambushed by a huge mob of Ferric Elves. The Elves and the Siege had roughly equal numbers and proceeded to obliterate each other in an orgy of violence and terror right under my battlements as my marksdwarves fired indiscriminately into the melee.

As far as I could see the Plump Helmet Men gave a good account of themselves in battle, claiming many elf lives. The siege and the ambushers broke each other at about the same time and limped away, leaving me a map strewn with corpses beyond counting. I'm still gathering weapons and setting up an incinerator to deal with the mess. My new goal is to capture a plump helmet man swordsman in a cage, then install him in the dining room so he can just sit there and radiate silent, eyeless, fungal hatred at my Dwarves forever. Have I mentioned how goddamn much I love your mod? 

:D :D :D

I wonder if I should implement a Plump Helmet Man race now. The underground forests do march!

On a separate note, I have figured how to reduce the amount of teeth in the mouths of the invaders. Hopefully his means a faster post-siege clean-up.
Title: Re: [0.43.04] Fortress Defense Mod II R v19: Full Armor Carnage!
Post by: Tarsis on July 07, 2016, 10:22:46 am


I wonder if I should implement a Plump Helmet Man race now. The underground forests do march!



Oh my yes please! I'll ditch those dirty ferric elveses!
Title: Re: [0.43.04] Fortress Defense Mod II R v19: Full Armor Carnage!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on July 08, 2016, 11:10:20 am
I wonder if I should implement a Plump Helmet Man race now. The underground forests do march!

Massive bonus points if you can get them to come from the caverns, armed, armored, and utterly berserk. Fear what lies beneath! Also this just gives me dreams of finding a plump helmet man village or something in a cavern and drowning it in magma...

Idea, a spore cloud attack that makes Dwarves ill somehow.
Title: Re: [0.43.04] Fortress Defense Mod II R v19: Full Armor Carnage!
Post by: darkflagrance on July 09, 2016, 01:34:40 am
Here's a preview:

(http://i.imgur.com/cxm7ws0.png)
Title: Re: [0.43.04] Fortress Defense Mod II R v19: Full Armor Carnage!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on July 09, 2016, 05:01:03 pm
Wait, it breathes fire? And it can cave in a chest through a steel plate? That is magnificent! What are these things, Plump Helmet Hulks?
Title: Re: [0.43.04] Fortress Defense Mod II R v19: Full Armor Carnage!
Post by: SalmonGod on July 09, 2016, 05:15:53 pm
I'm guessing Fortress Defense won't have any issues on 43.05, will it?

It's been a couple years... urge is growing to play again.
Title: Re: [0.43.04] Fortress Defense Mod II R v19: Full Armor Carnage!
Post by: darkflagrance on July 09, 2016, 06:12:51 pm
I'm guessing Fortress Defense won't have any issues on 43.05, will it?

It's been a couple years... urge is growing to play again.

It should be fine for the latest version. I'm just waiting to get home and release the next update to update version number.
Title: Re: [0.43.04] Fortress Defense Mod II R v19: Full Armor Carnage!
Post by: SalmonGod on July 10, 2016, 01:25:42 am
Any chance you're getting that out tonight?  I'm thinking of starting a worldgen before I go to sleep :)
Title: Re: [0.43.04] Fortress Defense Mod II R v19: Full Armor Carnage!
Post by: darkflagrance on July 10, 2016, 05:59:03 pm
Plump Helmet Invaders (http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=12250)
Ever wanted to get crushed by Plump Helmets? This is your chance! Just click on the link above, download, and get owned!

The next update for the main mod is also out.


---Changes for 0.19b R5.5

-Nerfed Hellfire imps: reduced frequency of dragonfire and increased time to arrival
-Removed conflicting biorhythm tags from Pandashi and Badgermen
-Reduced the amount of teeth in Fortress Defense Races
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v19b: Less Emphasis on Teethplosions!
Post by: Jazerus on July 16, 2016, 03:46:23 pm
Visitors that are also building destroyers, such as Great Fiend Spiders, are friendly, but follow their building destroyer AI - they just trample around the fort knocking over statues, slabs, etc. and then they leave.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v19b: Less Emphasis on Teethplosions!
Post by: darkflagrance on July 16, 2016, 08:44:08 pm
Visitors that are also building destroyers, such as Great Fiend Spiders, are friendly, but follow their building destroyer AI - they just trample around the fort knocking over statues, slabs, etc. and then they leave.

I'm actually surprised Great Fiend Spiders can visit; they've never been friendly in my test games. Any other building destroyer visitors you've encountered? Most of them probably aren't supposed to be doing so.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v19b: Less Emphasis on Teethplosions!
Post by: Thuellai on July 21, 2016, 10:38:28 am
I'd really like a version of Fort Defense that restores the ability to install only individual civs (although it's not hard to do manually, it's just a nice convenience)

Also, is there any way to make them a bit...  less prolific?  The fort defense races often end up choking out other races to a somewhat absurd degree.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v19b: Less Emphasis on Teethplosions!
Post by: 9tails on July 26, 2016, 07:47:31 pm
Do Hellfire Imps really use dragonfire? That seems kinda hardcore. I just had a magma-proof entrance construction melt nearly instantly and the rest of the fort followed shortly.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v19b: Less Emphasis on Teethplosions!
Post by: darkflagrance on July 26, 2016, 10:33:05 pm
Do Hellfire Imps really use dragonfire? That seems kinda hardcore. I just had a magma-proof entrance construction melt nearly instantly and the rest of the fort followed shortly.

Which version are you using?

I'd really like a version of Fort Defense that restores the ability to install only individual civs (although it's not hard to do manually, it's just a nice convenience)

Also, is there any way to make them a bit...  less prolific?  The fort defense races often end up choking out other races to a somewhat absurd degree.

That's a project I could get around to with more time. I try not to maintain too many alternate versions because of the pain of updating them all. Maybe this weekend.

The Fortress Defense races are equally adaptable for all land biomes, as best as I recall. Isolating them to fewer biomes would go a long way towards restricting their expansion rate.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v19b: Less Emphasis on Teethplosions!
Post by: Lordsservent-san on July 27, 2016, 03:32:35 pm
Do Hellfire Imps really use dragonfire? That seems kinda hardcore. I just had a magma-proof entrance construction melt nearly instantly and the rest of the fort followed shortly.

Which version are you using?

I'd really like a version of Fort Defense that restores the ability to install only individual civs (although it's not hard to do manually, it's just a nice convenience)

Also, is there any way to make them a bit...  less prolific?  The fort defense races often end up choking out other races to a somewhat absurd degree.

That's a project I could get around to with more time. I try not to maintain too many alternate versions because of the pain of updating them all. Maybe this weekend.

The Fortress Defense races are equally adaptable for all land biomes, as best as I recall. Isolating them to fewer biomes would go a long way towards restricting their expansion rate.
Hi there, I've been testing your kid out, and while it mostly works, the spurring and War wolf curse interactions aren't registering in the DF files. Is there any way to fix this? Also, fiend scale and feathers crippled enimies when broken, and cover internal organs and bones, as well as the external parts. Is this intended, or is this an oversight?
Edit: fixed the broken pieces nteractions, it turns out that the needed file was missing an n in the interaction_fd to make this a readable file. Would you mind fixing this for future releases?
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v19b: Less Emphasis on Teethplosions!
Post by: darkflagrance on July 27, 2016, 10:59:09 pm
Do Hellfire Imps really use dragonfire? That seems kinda hardcore. I just had a magma-proof entrance construction melt nearly instantly and the rest of the fort followed shortly.

Which version are you using?

I'd really like a version of Fort Defense that restores the ability to install only individual civs (although it's not hard to do manually, it's just a nice convenience)

Also, is there any way to make them a bit...  less prolific?  The fort defense races often end up choking out other races to a somewhat absurd degree.

That's a project I could get around to with more time. I try not to maintain too many alternate versions because of the pain of updating them all. Maybe this weekend.

The Fortress Defense races are equally adaptable for all land biomes, as best as I recall. Isolating them to fewer biomes would go a long way towards restricting their expansion rate.
Hi there, I've been testing your kid out, and while it mostly works, the spurring and War wolf curse interactions aren't registering in the DF files. Is there any way to fix this? Also, fiend scale and feathers crippled enimies when broken, and cover internal organs and bones, as well as the external parts. Is this intended, or is this an oversight?
Edit: fixed the broken pieces nteractions, it turns out that the needed file was missing an n in the interaction_fd to make this a readable file. Would you mind fixing this for future releases?

Thanks for the notification. I pushed out a quick fix that solves the file name problem. That is version 0.19c which is currently live and downloadable from the front page.

The fiend materials are intended to increase the punching power of races that use those materials. I haven't actually seen anything crippled by having fiend material broken, but I will pay attention to that when I look at the mod this weekend.

Hellfire Imps use dragonfire, but very rarely. Only 1 in a hundred can breath dragonfire, and even then only with a high recharge time. It is possible that you may still find their regular fire attacks to be hardcore, though, which is their intended challenge.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v19b: Less Emphasis on Teethplosions!
Post by: Lordsservent-san on July 28, 2016, 08:18:39 am
You're welcome. What I've noticed in the files is that fiend materials(and by extension, steel skin) have a structural tag. So, when you break it, it basically causes the creature to act like it broke a bone. It's nothing that ruins the game ex Wriance, but it's something odd that I've noticed when looking at the mod files. Otherwise, great work, and thanks for the cool mod.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v19b: Less Emphasis on Teethplosions!
Post by: Thatotherguy23 on July 29, 2016, 09:06:44 pm
Thought I'd point out your readmeifyouwish.txt doesn't mention that "interaction_fd.txt" should also be moved to raw. It's only missing being mentioned in installation 'basic'. I figured I should mention it because surely there'll be someone who thinks it's not needed for basic since it isn't mentioned ;p

Plump helmet invaders was funny but I assume it's not being added officially to the mod? Will you add more civs in the future?
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v19b: Less Emphasis on Teethplosions!
Post by: darkflagrance on July 29, 2016, 10:52:47 pm
Thought I'd point out your readmeifyouwish.txt doesn't mention that "interaction_fd.txt" should also be moved to raw. It's only missing being mentioned in installation 'basic'. I figured I should mention it because surely there'll be someone who thinks it's not needed for basic since it isn't mentioned ;p

Plump helmet invaders was funny but I assume it's not being added officially to the mod? Will you add more civs in the future?

Thanks for catching that - I have fixed it also. It doesn't affect gameplay, luckily.

I have been considering another bonus pack. I've been assembling a set of horrible creatures that might also make suitable invaders (if anybody has seen the easter egg raws for dark destroyers/dark desert scorpions, you've seen a hint of potential planning for a future expansion). That said, I'm not actually sure if people even play with plump helmet monsters.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v19b: Less Emphasis on Teethplosions!
Post by: Thatotherguy23 on July 30, 2016, 02:37:24 am
More choices to challenge us sounds great! I did notice the desert scorpions with bits about beak dogs and was confused, but guessed it was an easter egg. Also noticed that you removed it in the latest version. This mod is perfect for the variety of possibly fort ending creatures, dwarf combat experience and especially for the steel I can then melt down haha

Probably because most people don't go comment hunting for extras. It would be nice as Thuellai mentioned to be able to individually install them, but I only remove two races out of all of them anyway so it's not hard to manually edit them out
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v19b: Less Emphasis on Teethplosions!
Post by: Tarsis on July 30, 2016, 09:03:55 am


I have been considering another bonus pack. I've been assembling a set of horrible creatures that might also make suitable invaders (if anybody has seen the easter egg raws for dark destroyers/dark desert scorpions, you've seen a hint of potential planning for a future expansion). That said, I'm not actually sure if people even play with plump helmet monsters.

I'd love me some dark desert scorpions (using crossbows like the old desert scorps did?). I've played with the plump helmet monsters, I just didn't get any invaders of any sort. I think I make my regions too large or something, and I've not started a new fort to try again (busy season), but rest assured, your efforts are not wasted. I will be fruitlessly defending forts again in a couple months.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v19b: Less Emphasis on Teethplosions!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on July 30, 2016, 11:28:11 am
Go big or go home man, new horrific races are always a good thing. One of my dreams, currently unrealized because mercs don't become citizens, is to have some kind of breeding murder-freakshow of a fort. More races would make that easier. And more races would make more murder. There is no downside here.

Also, I really need to play with the plump helmets, just as you released them real life crushed worse than they will...
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v19b: Less Emphasis on Teethplosions!
Post by: Lordsservent-san on July 30, 2016, 11:34:15 am
Hey darkflagrence, I found and fixed an error in the Joutun Raws. If you want the Ettinjoutns to have an E tile, or Ogre Joutuns to have an O tile, change the [CREATURE_TILE] to [CASTE_TILE] in the rasa
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v19b: Less Emphasis on Teethplosions!
Post by: darkflagrance on July 30, 2016, 03:56:22 pm
(busy season)

The suffering is real for me too. Being old sucks :(

Hey darkflagrence, I found and fixed an error in the Joutun Raws. If you want the Ettinjoutns to have an E tile, or Ogre Joutuns to have an O tile, change the [CREATURE_TILE] to [CASTE_TILE] in the rasa

Thanks, I'll fix that also. So many bugfixes all of a sudden, it's nice to have new eyes on the mod.

Go big or go home man, new horrific races are always a good thing. One of my dreams, currently unrealized because mercs don't become citizens, is to have some kind of breeding murder-freakshow of a fort. More races would make that easier. And more races would make more murder. There is no downside here.

Also, I really need to play with the plump helmets, just as you released them real life crushed worse than they will...

Should be as simple as allowing Fortress Defense races to be performers. It probably won't hurt to add that capability.

More choices to challenge us sounds great! I did notice the desert scorpions with bits about beak dogs and was confused, but guessed it was an easter egg. Also noticed that you removed it in the latest version. This mod is perfect for the variety of possibly fort ending creatures, dwarf combat experience and especially for the steel I can then melt down haha

Probably because most people don't go comment hunting for extras. It would be nice as Thuellai mentioned to be able to individually install them, but I only remove two races out of all of them anyway so it's not hard to manually edit them out

Code: [Select]
import re

def splitFD():
#Find specified file and read it into memory
    with open("entity_fortdefense.txt") as f:
        content=f.readlines()
        f.close
    print(len(content))

#set up processing variables to store the current indiv entity
    entityfound = False #whether an entity is stored in memory
    currEntity="" #name of the current entity stored in memory in token form
    content2 = [] #any data for the current entity stored in memory
    filename="" #name of current entity formatted for file output
    for c in content:
        searchObj = re.search(r'ENTITY:(.*?)]',c) #regex pulls name between ENTITY: and ] to group(1)
        if searchObj:
            print(searchObj.group(1))
            if entityfound: #if there is an entity stored in memory, dump it to a file
                print(len(content2))
#write to new file or overwrite old file
                with open("".join((filename,".txt")),"w") as f:
                    for cc in content2:
                        f.write(cc)
                    f.close
                    content2=[] #clear stored entity data
            else: #if there is no entity, start storying the one found by the regex
                entityfound = True
#since an entity entry was found, begin storing it in memory
            currEntity = "".join((searchObj.group(1),""))
            filename = "".join(("entity_",currEntity.lower()))
            content2.append("{}\n\n[OBJECT:ENTITY]\n\n".format(filename))
            content2.append(c)
        elif entityfound: #if in the middle of an entity entry, store each line in memory
            content2.append(c)
#at the end, dump whatever is still in memory into its own file
    with open("".join((filename,".txt")),"w") as f:
        for cc in content2:
            f.write(cc)
        f.close
       
splitFD()

Boom, python script to automatically split files into their constituent entity pieces. You don't need to split creature files because the ones that don't have entities won't spawn regardless. You can use this if you installed Python by running this script in the same directory as a target entity file, changing the name of the file to access as appropriate, or you can wait for me to run it on my mod when I wake up this evening.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v19b: Less Emphasis on Teethplosions!
Post by: darkflagrance on July 31, 2016, 05:06:06 am
Version 0.20 released, with individual entity files.

---Changes for 0.20 R6

-Added individual entity files so that mix-and-matching is easier. There is no need to split the creatures file, because they won't spawn without their corresponding entity present anyway
-Fortress Defense enemies may now apply for citizenship! Also, more Fortress Defense races can now be mercenaries and visitors
-Removed STRUCTURAL from fiend tissue
-Greater Badgermen can no longer be poisoned or suffer infections from wounds (to increase resemblance to honey badgers)
-Great Fiend Spider progress triggers altered so they attack later
-Nakashim renamed to Nakash Snakemen/women


Let me know if you have any suggestions for other challenge races.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: Lordsservent-san on August 01, 2016, 07:55:23 pm
I actually made a race of zombies(made as an entity of course) intended to come and attack your fortress. They don't avoid traps, but they can destroy doors and furniture, they also know how to make metal, and how to manufacture human and Dwaven wepaonry.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: jecowa on August 03, 2016, 04:00:54 am
Darkflagrance, are you okay with your mod being bundled with Lazy Newb Packs?
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: pikachu17 on August 03, 2016, 09:34:23 am
Jecowa, I didn't know mods were bundled with Lazy Newb Packs.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: jecowa on August 03, 2016, 11:53:48 am
Jecowa, I didn't know mods were bundled with Lazy Newb Packs.

I'm not sure if there are any Lazy Newb Packs that include mods. (Is Masterwork a Lazy Newb Pack maybe?)

The Lazy Newb Pack added mod support a couple of years ago. It looks like it might even support two mods editing the same file. http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=142295

That'd be pretty cool.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: Lordsservent-san on August 03, 2016, 12:25:39 pm
Jecowa, I didn't know mods were bundled with Lazy Newb Packs.
The lazy newb pack has actually been packed with mods before, though usually they just go vinilla with Dwarf therapist and DF hack.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: darkflagrance on August 03, 2016, 09:02:38 pm
Darkflagrance, are you okay with your mod being bundled with Lazy Newb Packs?

Yes, I am fine with it.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: jecowa on August 03, 2016, 10:01:13 pm
Darkflagrance, are you okay with your mod being bundled with Lazy Newb Packs?

Yes, I am fine with it.

Thanks! Is it okay to include Plump Helmet Invaders (http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=12250#c_1031) with Lazy Newb Packs too?
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: darkflagrance on August 04, 2016, 12:02:15 am
Darkflagrance, are you okay with your mod being bundled with Lazy Newb Packs?

Yes, I am fine with it.

Thanks! Is it okay to include Plump Helmet Invaders (http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=12250#c_1031) with Lazy Newb Packs too?

You have my permission.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: Meph on August 05, 2016, 07:08:29 am
Quote
-Fortress Defense enemies may now apply for citizenship! Also, more Fortress Defense races can now be mercenaries and visitors
This causes massive issues if said creatures are building-destroyers, because they will arrive friendly, yet still raze your doors, statues, workshops, etc.

Btw, do you know a way to stop a civ from sending mercenaries, scholars, visitors, etc? Any way to turn that off?
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: Xinrai on August 05, 2016, 09:18:12 am
Btw, do you know a way to stop a civ from sending mercenaries, scholars, visitors, etc? Any way to turn that off?

The entity files in the raw have [MERCENARY] written in them, I think removing that and maybe some others. There's [WANDERER], possibly that one? I don't know about scholars.

Btw, can these be modified and still have an effect on an existing save? Or new worldgen? Probably new worlgen.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: darkflagrance on August 06, 2016, 01:00:20 am
I don't know how to stop them sending thieves. Only non-building destroyer races have had the visitor tags added (the tags to produce music/instruments/poetry, and the mercenary tags). It is possible the WANDERER tag causes thieves to wander, but I suspect it is the BABYSNATCHER and ITEM THIEF tags that do it, which I cannot remove without undermining the purpose of the mod.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: Meph on August 06, 2016, 09:35:48 am
Quote
(the tags to produce music/instruments/poetry, and the mercenary tags)
I feel not-so-smart that I did not see the correlation between instrument making and visiting bards...

I got some reports about spiderfiends etc visiting, razing workshops and causing a ruckus, but I cant find the tags in the entity file that would stop that. I'm using a slightly older version:

Code: [Select]
entity_fd_spiderfiend

!NO_CIV_ACTIVE_WEBBERFD!OBJECT:ENTITY]

[ENTITY:WEBBERFD]

!NO_ADV_MODE_WEBBERFD!ALL_MAIN_POPS_CONTROLLABLE]

[PERMITTED_REACTION:MATERIALS_DEFAULT]WEBBERFD_MATERIALS

YES_BODYGUARDS_WEBBERFD[DIPLOMAT_BODYGUARDS]
YES_BODYGUARDS_WEBBERFD[MERCHANT_BODYGUARDS]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POPULATION:4]WEBBERFD_TRADE
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PRODUCTION:4]WEBBERFD_TRADE
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE:4]WEBBERFD_TRADE
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POP_SIEGE:4]WEBBERFD_SIEGE
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PROD_SIEGE:4]WEBBERFD_SIEGE
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE_SIEGE:4]WEBBERFD_SIEGE

!NO_ACTIVE_SPRING_WEBBERFD!ACTIVE_SEASON:SPRING]
!NO_ACTIVE_SUMMER_WEBBERFD!ACTIVE_SEASON:SUMMER]
YES_ACTIVE_AUTUMN_WEBBERFD[ACTIVE_SEASON:AUTUMN]
YES_ACTIVE_WINTER_WEBBERFD[ACTIVE_SEASON:WINTER]

    !NO_SIEGER_WEBBERFD!SIEGER]
YES_AMBUSHER_WEBBERFD[AMBUSHER]
!NO_SKULKING_WEBBERFD!SKULKING]
YES_BABYSNATCHER_WEBBERFD[BABYSNATCHER]
YES_ITEMTHIEF_WEBBERFD[ITEM_THIEF]

[CREATURE:SPIDER_FIEND_FD]

[CURRENCY_BY_YEAR]
[CURRENCY:COPPER:1]
[CURRENCY:SILVER:5]
[CURRENCY:GOLD:15]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:WAR:NAME_WAR]
[SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:WAR:VIOLENT]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:BATTLE:NAME_BATTLE]
[SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:BATTLE:VIOLENT]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:SIEGE:NAME_SIEGE]
[SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:SIEGE:VIOLENT]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:ROAD:NAME_ROAD]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:TUNNEL:NAME_TUNNEL]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:BRIDGE:NAME_BRIDGE]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:WALL:NAME_WALL]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:TEMPLE:NAME_BUILDING_TEMPLE]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:LIBRARY:NAME_BUILDING_LIBRARY]
SELECT_SYMBOL:REMAINING:DARKNESS
SELECT_SYMBOL:REMAINING:DEATH
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:DOMESTIC]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:SUBORDINATE]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:FLOWERY]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:PEACE]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:HOLY]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:GOOD]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:ARTIFICE]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:AQUATIC]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:NEW]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:ROMANTIC]
[EQUIPMENT_IMPROVEMENTS]
[FRIENDLY_COLOR:1:0:1]
[DEFAULT_SITE_TYPE:TREE_CITY]
[LIKES_SITE:PLAYER_FORTRESS]
[START_BIOME:ANY_FOREST]
[START_BIOME:ANY_SHRUBLAND]
[START_BIOME:MOUNTAIN]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_FOREST:3]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:MOUNTAIN:3]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_GRASSLAND:1]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_SAVANNA:2]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_SHRUBLAND:3]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_WETLAND:2]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_RIVER:2]
[MAX_STARTING_CIV_NUMBER:100]
[MAX_POP_NUMBER:10000]
[MAX_SITE_POP_NUMBER:120]
[PERMITTED_JOB:HUNTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:TRAPPER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:BONE_CARVER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:WEAVER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:CLOTHIER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:STRAND_EXTRACTOR]
[PERMITTED_JOB:FISHERMAN]
[PERMITTED_JOB:FISH_DISSECTOR]
[PERMITTED_JOB:FISH_CLEANER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:BUTCHER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:TANNER]
[PERMITTED_BUILDING:SOAP_MAKER]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:TAN_A_HIDE]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:RENDER_FAT]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:MAKE_SOAP]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:MAKE_PEARLASH]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:MAKE_PLASTER_POWDER]
[ABUSE_BODIES]
[ETHIC:KILL_ENTITY_MEMBER:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:KILL_NEUTRAL:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:KILL_ENEMY:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:KILL_ANIMAL:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:KILL_PLANT:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_AS_EXAMPLE:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_INFORMATION:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_FUN:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_ANIMALS:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:TREASON:PUNISH_CAPITAL]
[ETHIC:OATH_BREAKING:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:LYING:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:VANDALISM:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:TRESPASSING:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:THEFT:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:ASSAULT:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:SLAVERY:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_OTHER:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAME_RACE:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAPIENT:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_ANIMAL:ACCEPTABLE]
[VALUE:LAW:0]
[VALUE:LOYALTY:0]
[VALUE:FAMILY:0]
[VALUE:FRIENDSHIP:0]
[VALUE:POWER:0]
[VALUE:TRUTH:0]
[VALUE:CUNNING:0]
[VALUE:ELOQUENCE:0]
[VALUE:FAIRNESS:0]
[VALUE:DECORUM:0]
[VALUE:TRADITION:0]
[VALUE:ARTWORK:0]
[VALUE:COOPERATION:0]
[VALUE:INDEPENDENCE:0]
[VALUE:STOICISM:0]
[VALUE:INTROSPECTION:0]
[VALUE:SELF_CONTROL:0]
[VALUE:TRANQUILITY:0]
[VALUE:HARMONY:0]
[VALUE:MERRIMENT:0]
[VALUE:CRAFTSMANSHIP:0]
[VALUE:MARTIAL_PROWESS:0]
[VALUE:SKILL:0]
[VALUE:HARD_WORK:0]
[VALUE:SACRIFICE:0]
[VALUE:COMPETITION:0]
[VALUE:PERSEVERANCE:0]
[VALUE:LEISURE_TIME:0]
[VALUE:COMMERCE:0]
[VALUE:ROMANCE:0]
[VALUE:NATURE:0]
[VALUE:PEACE:0]
[WILL_ACCEPT_TRIBUTE]
[VARIABLE_POSITIONS:ALL]
[BUILDS_OUTDOOR_FORTIFICATIONS]
[BANDITRY:1]
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: Lordsservent-san on August 06, 2016, 09:40:24 am
Well, once I actually get a fort with a functioning military, this is goain't to be quite interesting.
Also, I foundation few more things that are minor, but should be fixed. There is a 3EYES body in the default Raws used on vinilla stranglers that you can use on your own dark stranglers, and you need to fix your Cyclops body so it only has one eye, and change the caste preferring from eyes to eye.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: darkflagrance on August 06, 2016, 01:46:01 pm
Quote
(the tags to produce music/instruments/poetry, and the mercenary tags)
I feel not-so-smart that I did not see the correlation between instrument making and visiting bards...

I got some reports about spiderfiends etc visiting, razing workshops and causing a ruckus, but I cant find the tags in the entity file that would stop that. I'm using a slightly older version:

Code: [Select]
entity_fd_spiderfiend

!NO_CIV_ACTIVE_WEBBERFD!OBJECT:ENTITY]

[ENTITY:WEBBERFD]

!NO_ADV_MODE_WEBBERFD!ALL_MAIN_POPS_CONTROLLABLE]

[PERMITTED_REACTION:MATERIALS_DEFAULT]WEBBERFD_MATERIALS

YES_BODYGUARDS_WEBBERFD[DIPLOMAT_BODYGUARDS]
YES_BODYGUARDS_WEBBERFD[MERCHANT_BODYGUARDS]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POPULATION:4]WEBBERFD_TRADE
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PRODUCTION:4]WEBBERFD_TRADE
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE:4]WEBBERFD_TRADE
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POP_SIEGE:4]WEBBERFD_SIEGE
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PROD_SIEGE:4]WEBBERFD_SIEGE
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE_SIEGE:4]WEBBERFD_SIEGE

!NO_ACTIVE_SPRING_WEBBERFD!ACTIVE_SEASON:SPRING]
!NO_ACTIVE_SUMMER_WEBBERFD!ACTIVE_SEASON:SUMMER]
YES_ACTIVE_AUTUMN_WEBBERFD[ACTIVE_SEASON:AUTUMN]
YES_ACTIVE_WINTER_WEBBERFD[ACTIVE_SEASON:WINTER]

    !NO_SIEGER_WEBBERFD!SIEGER]
YES_AMBUSHER_WEBBERFD[AMBUSHER]
!NO_SKULKING_WEBBERFD!SKULKING]
YES_BABYSNATCHER_WEBBERFD[BABYSNATCHER]
YES_ITEMTHIEF_WEBBERFD[ITEM_THIEF]

[CREATURE:SPIDER_FIEND_FD]

[CURRENCY_BY_YEAR]
[CURRENCY:COPPER:1]
[CURRENCY:SILVER:5]
[CURRENCY:GOLD:15]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:WAR:NAME_WAR]
[SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:WAR:VIOLENT]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:BATTLE:NAME_BATTLE]
[SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:BATTLE:VIOLENT]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:SIEGE:NAME_SIEGE]
[SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:SIEGE:VIOLENT]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:ROAD:NAME_ROAD]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:TUNNEL:NAME_TUNNEL]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:BRIDGE:NAME_BRIDGE]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:WALL:NAME_WALL]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:TEMPLE:NAME_BUILDING_TEMPLE]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:LIBRARY:NAME_BUILDING_LIBRARY]
SELECT_SYMBOL:REMAINING:DARKNESS
SELECT_SYMBOL:REMAINING:DEATH
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:DOMESTIC]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:SUBORDINATE]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:FLOWERY]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:PEACE]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:HOLY]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:GOOD]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:ARTIFICE]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:AQUATIC]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:NEW]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:ROMANTIC]
[EQUIPMENT_IMPROVEMENTS]
[FRIENDLY_COLOR:1:0:1]
[DEFAULT_SITE_TYPE:TREE_CITY]
[LIKES_SITE:PLAYER_FORTRESS]
[START_BIOME:ANY_FOREST]
[START_BIOME:ANY_SHRUBLAND]
[START_BIOME:MOUNTAIN]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_FOREST:3]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:MOUNTAIN:3]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_GRASSLAND:1]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_SAVANNA:2]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_SHRUBLAND:3]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_WETLAND:2]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_RIVER:2]
[MAX_STARTING_CIV_NUMBER:100]
[MAX_POP_NUMBER:10000]
[MAX_SITE_POP_NUMBER:120]
[PERMITTED_JOB:HUNTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:TRAPPER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:BONE_CARVER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:WEAVER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:CLOTHIER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:STRAND_EXTRACTOR]
[PERMITTED_JOB:FISHERMAN]
[PERMITTED_JOB:FISH_DISSECTOR]
[PERMITTED_JOB:FISH_CLEANER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:BUTCHER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:TANNER]
[PERMITTED_BUILDING:SOAP_MAKER]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:TAN_A_HIDE]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:RENDER_FAT]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:MAKE_SOAP]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:MAKE_PEARLASH]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:MAKE_PLASTER_POWDER]
[ABUSE_BODIES]
[ETHIC:KILL_ENTITY_MEMBER:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:KILL_NEUTRAL:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:KILL_ENEMY:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:KILL_ANIMAL:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:KILL_PLANT:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_AS_EXAMPLE:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_INFORMATION:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_FUN:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_ANIMALS:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:TREASON:PUNISH_CAPITAL]
[ETHIC:OATH_BREAKING:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:LYING:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:VANDALISM:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:TRESPASSING:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:THEFT:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:ASSAULT:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:SLAVERY:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_OTHER:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAME_RACE:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAPIENT:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_ANIMAL:ACCEPTABLE]
[VALUE:LAW:0]
[VALUE:LOYALTY:0]
[VALUE:FAMILY:0]
[VALUE:FRIENDSHIP:0]
[VALUE:POWER:0]
[VALUE:TRUTH:0]
[VALUE:CUNNING:0]
[VALUE:ELOQUENCE:0]
[VALUE:FAIRNESS:0]
[VALUE:DECORUM:0]
[VALUE:TRADITION:0]
[VALUE:ARTWORK:0]
[VALUE:COOPERATION:0]
[VALUE:INDEPENDENCE:0]
[VALUE:STOICISM:0]
[VALUE:INTROSPECTION:0]
[VALUE:SELF_CONTROL:0]
[VALUE:TRANQUILITY:0]
[VALUE:HARMONY:0]
[VALUE:MERRIMENT:0]
[VALUE:CRAFTSMANSHIP:0]
[VALUE:MARTIAL_PROWESS:0]
[VALUE:SKILL:0]
[VALUE:HARD_WORK:0]
[VALUE:SACRIFICE:0]
[VALUE:COMPETITION:0]
[VALUE:PERSEVERANCE:0]
[VALUE:LEISURE_TIME:0]
[VALUE:COMMERCE:0]
[VALUE:ROMANCE:0]
[VALUE:NATURE:0]
[VALUE:PEACE:0]
[WILL_ACCEPT_TRIBUTE]
[VARIABLE_POSITIONS:ALL]
[BUILDS_OUTDOOR_FORTIFICATIONS]
[BANDITRY:1]

It's most likely thieves who are visiting and destroying things, which cannot be stopped without removing the BABY SNATCHER tag.

I recommend removing the BUILDING DESTROYER from the spiders instead.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: Xinrai on August 09, 2016, 01:58:52 pm
Just in case this hasn't come up yet, I just noticed that the spurring interaction is causing a minor spam of combat reports from visitors.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: darkflagrance on August 12, 2016, 12:51:06 am
Just in case this hasn't come up yet, I just noticed that the spurring interaction is causing a minor spam of combat reports from visitors.

Given that, in addition to this bug, spurring is not doing what it ought to be doing, it is a strong candidate for disabling when I next edit the mod.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: Xinrai on August 13, 2016, 01:30:59 pm
So a troupe of Raptor people came and petitioned. I accepted them. Now they claimed most of my nest boxes and are laying eggs in them!  :o

I'm not complaining about free food (as long as they are okay with my dorfs eating them), but you can't breed them this way, right? I think some of the bird women do this too in vanilla.

I also just like to imagine the situation where the raptor woman bard, instrument in hand, is sitting on a nest box while a cautious dwarf approaches in hopes of taking the eggs.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: darkflagrance on August 13, 2016, 04:41:07 pm
So a troupe of Raptor people came and petitioned. I accepted them. Now they claimed most of my nest boxes and are laying eggs in them!  :o

I'm not complaining about free food (as long as they are okay with my dorfs eating them), but you can't breed them this way, right? I think some of the bird women do this too in vanilla.

I also just like to imagine the situation where the raptor woman bard, instrument in hand, is sitting on a nest box while a cautious dwarf approaches in hopes of taking the eggs.

I love that image :D

My dwarves personally found naga eggs delicious when cooked into roasts O_O so eating them should be fine.

I thiiiiiink breeding them is possible but they need to be married and in contact with their spouses to lay fertile eggs. It's always been a goal of mine to breed egg-laying guests in a dwarven fort and thereby get hordes of disposable soldiers, but I haven't succeeded yet.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: Tarsis on August 22, 2016, 06:28:50 am
  I finally had some time to actually sit down and play some DF. Some caveats: I am playing with some other home-brewed mods (mainly 5 semi neutral civs to trade with), no imps, and FD2, Rv19b. I created a small region with 30 civs, found a likely embark location, and set out. 2 miners, a carpenter, a farmer, a mechanic, and 2 well equipped soldiers. The soldiers immediately set to training, while the miners dug a tiny burrow to hide the plebs in. The miners and support staff pushed through a 4 level aquifer (my first successful aquifer breach!) as the soldiers trained in a pasture outside the burrow, watched by idle war dogs. There were several incursions by feral camels that kept wood hauling exciting.

  The crafting halls were complete, the dining hall was flush with booze, the temple was rough but functional, forges and fields, stills and kitchens, a grand entry hall! Things were going exceedingly well for us. The overseer didn't feel he had to increase the militia, and needed many more miners, and a broker to trade with the good dwarves, humans, gnolls, crabmen, and minotaurs that were visiting as the seasons changed.

   One fine summer day, Ambush!, some raptor women came storming across the desert, wiping clean the alpaca pasture, mauling several of the dangerous feral camels, and finally battling with our spearmaster and axelord. Our soldiers managed to take down all but one raptor woman, who bit through their bronze helms and fractured their skulls. The raptor woman continued into the great entry hall until she reached the tavern entrance, where a visiting giant swept out and punched her across the hall and smashed her to bits on the opposing wall. He was there to hear poetry, and was not happy with the interruption!

   Since that day, the overseer has been struggling to keep 2 full squads of soldier alive and equipped long enough to defend the fortress from incursion, but the nakash, raptor men, white tigermen, and an occasional squad of furies keeps their numbers down.

    This is the most fun I've had since 34.x.  The enemies are coming just strong enough, and just frequent enough, that I am always on my back foot. I occasionally have to rob a caravan of everything they have just to keep ahead of the game. Almost without fail, my soldiers weaken the enemy just enough so the enemy cannot wipe out my tavern of visitors. Then I have the new recruits wash the old recruits out of their "new" armor. This is probably the first fortress I've ever played where I get attacked every year (after the third), sometimes even two or three times a year, and the true threat isn't FBs or titans, or vampires, or tantrum spirals. It's outright fight for your life from the hounds of hell at your gates. I love it, thanks!
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: darkflagrance on August 23, 2016, 08:39:59 pm
  I finally had some time to actually sit down and play some DF. Some caveats: I am playing with some other home-brewed mods (mainly 5 semi neutral civs to trade with), no imps, and FD2, Rv19b. I created a small region with 30 civs, found a likely embark location, and set out. 2 miners, a carpenter, a farmer, a mechanic, and 2 well equipped soldiers. The soldiers immediately set to training, while the miners dug a tiny burrow to hide the plebs in. The miners and support staff pushed through a 4 level aquifer (my first successful aquifer breach!) as the soldiers trained in a pasture outside the burrow, watched by idle war dogs. There were several incursions by feral camels that kept wood hauling exciting.

  The crafting halls were complete, the dining hall was flush with booze, the temple was rough but functional, forges and fields, stills and kitchens, a grand entry hall! Things were going exceedingly well for us. The overseer didn't feel he had to increase the militia, and needed many more miners, and a broker to trade with the good dwarves, humans, gnolls, crabmen, and minotaurs that were visiting as the seasons changed.

   One fine summer day, Ambush!, some raptor women came storming across the desert, wiping clean the alpaca pasture, mauling several of the dangerous feral camels, and finally battling with our spearmaster and axelord. Our soldiers managed to take down all but one raptor woman, who bit through their bronze helms and fractured their skulls. The raptor woman continued into the great entry hall until she reached the tavern entrance, where a visiting giant swept out and punched her across the hall and smashed her to bits on the opposing wall. He was there to hear poetry, and was not happy with the interruption!

   Since that day, the overseer has been struggling to keep 2 full squads of soldier alive and equipped long enough to defend the fortress from incursion, but the nakash, raptor men, white tigermen, and an occasional squad of furies keeps their numbers down.

    This is the most fun I've had since 34.x.  The enemies are coming just strong enough, and just frequent enough, that I am always on my back foot. I occasionally have to rob a caravan of everything they have just to keep ahead of the game. Almost without fail, my soldiers weaken the enemy just enough so the enemy cannot wipe out my tavern of visitors. Then I have the new recruits wash the old recruits out of their "new" armor. This is probably the first fortress I've ever played where I get attacked every year (after the third), sometimes even two or three times a year, and the true threat isn't FBs or titans, or vampires, or tantrum spirals. It's outright fight for your life from the hounds of hell at your gates. I love it, thanks!

I've read your account multiple times. This feeling of quicksand, of having to live on the edge and do things you never thought you'd do for survival is exactly what I hope to achieve with this mod. Reading your post made me extremely proud and thankful that players like you can enjoy my work :)
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: flyteofheart on August 24, 2016, 10:01:26 pm
This is only sorta related to your mod but do you know how I can safely remove goblins from the worldgen? I made a bunch of worlds using your mod and goblins take up SO much of the population. Im talking 60k goblins and the next highest will be 20k war wolves or something. Gobbos are just wastes of space compared to all your modded civs. I don't want the goblins taking up the population cap or making my computer slower trying to track so many of its sites and fortresses.

Anyway I love this mod so much. I get bored on vanilla these days because iv gotten so "good" at the game. Now I can be tested again and actually have my forts end with FUN instead of FPS death
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: darkflagrance on August 24, 2016, 10:52:27 pm
This is only sorta related to your mod but do you know how I can safely remove goblins from the worldgen? I made a bunch of worlds using your mod and goblins take up SO much of the population. Im talking 60k goblins and the next highest will be 20k war wolves or something. Gobbos are just wastes of space compared to all your modded civs. I don't want the goblins taking up the population cap or making my computer slower trying to track so many of its sites and fortresses.

Anyway I love this mod so much. I get bored on vanilla these days because iv gotten so "good" at the game. Now I can be tested again and actually have my forts end with FUN instead of FPS death

There are quite a few ways of doing so, but all of them will require generating a new world without goblins.

One way is to just find the ENTITY:EVIL in the entity_default.txt file and just delete that line and everything after it until the next entity (ENTITY:SKULKING).

Another is to tweak the below numbers to be smaller
Code: [Select]
[MAX_STARTING_CIV_NUMBER:100]
[MAX_POP_NUMBER:10000]
[MAX_SITE_POP_NUMBER:120]
Or delete only the below tags:
Code: [Select]
[START_BIOME:ANY_LAND]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ALL_MAIN:1]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_RIVER:1]

As a bonus, you can change the CREATURE:GOBLIN token in the ENTITY:EVIL to some other intelligent creature, like one of the fortress defense races (WEREWOLFFD maybe?) or even vanilla races like the DRAGON, MINOTAUR, TROLL, GREMLIN, KOBOLD, SATYR...

I'm glad to hear you're enjoying the mod. I wish you many happy hours of !!!FUN!!! and *Slaughter*
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: Lordsservent-san on August 25, 2016, 11:25:58 am
This is only sorta related to your mod but do you know how I can safely remove goblins from the worldgen? I made a bunch of worlds using your mod and goblins take up SO much of the population. Im talking 60k goblins and the next highest will be 20k war wolves or something. Gobbos are just wastes of space compared to all your modded civs. I don't want the goblins taking up the population cap or making my computer slower trying to track so many of its sites and fortresses.

Anyway I love this mod so much. I get bored on vanilla these days because iv gotten so "good" at the game. Now I can be tested again and actually have my forts end with FUN instead of FPS death
Go to the entity file, find [ENTITY:EVIL] and delete the brackets before generating a new world. That should be enough to get rid of the goblin new while still allowing you to keep their entity around in case you want to modify it later.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: flyteofheart on August 28, 2016, 12:04:00 am
lol im definitely in "quick sand" mode right now. I have rules against stuff like weapon traps and silly drawbridges that seal us away from everything

So the first massive invasion of beakwolves nearly ended my fort. it turns out an unskilled militia gets overwhelmed by 70 beak wolves even if those are supposed to be weak XD

only thing that "saved" me was the large amount of visiting tigermen chilling in the tavern with weapons
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: darkflagrance on August 28, 2016, 02:10:26 am
lol im definitely in "quick sand" mode right now. I have rules against stuff like weapon traps and silly drawbridges that seal us away from everything

So the first massive invasion of beakwolves nearly ended my fort. it turns out an unskilled militia gets overwhelmed by 70 beak wolves even if those are supposed to be weak XD

only thing that "saved" me was the large amount of visiting tigermen chilling in the tavern with weapons

Yes, it seems that in the current version Beakwolves silently became more of a threat due to changed mechanics. Where in the past their feeble teeth materials failed to pierce any respectable metal, now their larger size allows them to apply force and twisting to fragile dwarven limbs or to chomp down on skulls through helmets.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: Lordsservent-san on August 28, 2016, 02:29:06 am
lol im definitely in "quick sand" mode right now. I have rules against stuff like weapon traps and silly drawbridges that seal us away from everything

So the first massive invasion of beakwolves nearly ended my fort. it turns out an unskilled militia gets overwhelmed by 70 beak wolves even if those are supposed to be weak XD

only thing that "saved" me was the large amount of visiting tigermen chilling in the tavern with weapons
Yeah. The force mechanic is cool and adds a good realizing level to the game, but it can easily bite your dwarves or whatever else you're playing in the ass when they encounter high velocity and/or high force att is, by breaking joints through your Masterowork steel armour or whatever you're using for your dwarves.
Yes, it seems that in the current version Beakwolves silently became more of a threat due to changed mechanics. Where in the past their feeble teeth materials failed to pierce any respectable metal, now their larger size allows them to apply force and twisting to fragile dwarven limbs or to chomp down on skulls through helmets.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: Grimlocke on August 28, 2016, 03:53:41 am
lol im definitely in "quick sand" mode right now. I have rules against stuff like weapon traps and silly drawbridges that seal us away from everything

So the first massive invasion of beakwolves nearly ended my fort. it turns out an unskilled militia gets overwhelmed by 70 beak wolves even if those are supposed to be weak XD

only thing that "saved" me was the large amount of visiting tigermen chilling in the tavern with weapons

Yes, it seems that in the current version Beakwolves silently became more of a threat due to changed mechanics. Where in the past their feeble teeth materials failed to pierce any respectable metal, now their larger size allows them to apply force and twisting to fragile dwarven limbs or to chomp down on skulls through helmets.

I'm pretty sure the bite mechanic got glitched on the latest release, since even bite attacks that glance off armor entirely end up 'latching on', and subsequent attacks somehow bypass armor entirely. In 43.03 and before the bite needed to do some damage at least before it could latch on.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: darkflagrance on August 28, 2016, 04:29:13 pm
lol im definitely in "quick sand" mode right now. I have rules against stuff like weapon traps and silly drawbridges that seal us away from everything

So the first massive invasion of beakwolves nearly ended my fort. it turns out an unskilled militia gets overwhelmed by 70 beak wolves even if those are supposed to be weak XD

only thing that "saved" me was the large amount of visiting tigermen chilling in the tavern with weapons

Yes, it seems that in the current version Beakwolves silently became more of a threat due to changed mechanics. Where in the past their feeble teeth materials failed to pierce any respectable metal, now their larger size allows them to apply force and twisting to fragile dwarven limbs or to chomp down on skulls through helmets.

I'm pretty sure the bite mechanic got glitched on the latest release, since even bite attacks that glance off armor entirely end up 'latching on', and subsequent attacks somehow bypass armor entirely. In 43.03 and before the bite needed to do some damage at least before it could latch on.

I'm thinking that for now I'll leave the Beakwolves and other biting races as they are now that they can counter armor. After all, Beakwolves are unarmored, so they should still be relatively easy to kill, but even an established fort will have to tread carefully around them.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: flyteofheart on August 28, 2016, 05:00:00 pm
Definitely leave the beakdogs as they are! They could rip people up with their teeth but that makes sense to me. They shouldnt be TOO easy. I was just unprepared.

Also, do you happen to know any ways to put armor on visiting tigermen? I inducted 4 into my military and they dont seem to be able to wear our armor :c I know for adventure mode shenanigans I just put in a mod I found on this forum to adjust the size of armor. but I dont have a clue how this would translate to a fortress. If i have to change the raws again that is finie

I just want really awesome steel clad tigermen fighting with me :D
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: Grimlocke on August 29, 2016, 12:49:21 am
You can make armor to size for any creature in fortress mode with the job details menu when you order the jobs at the forge.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: darkflagrance on August 29, 2016, 12:55:39 am
Definitely leave the beakdogs as they are! They could rip people up with their teeth but that makes sense to me. They shouldnt be TOO easy. I was just unprepared.

Also, do you happen to know any ways to put armor on visiting tigermen? I inducted 4 into my military and they dont seem to be able to wear our armor :c I know for adventure mode shenanigans I just put in a mod I found on this forum to adjust the size of armor. but I dont have a clue how this would translate to a fortress. If i have to change the raws again that is finie

I just want really awesome steel clad tigermen fighting with me :D

You have to make armor of their size yourself, or take it from the corpses of invaders or visitors of the same sizes.

To make armor sized for non-dwarves at your forges, assign the steel armor pieces at your forge, then for each job, press 'd' for details, and it will let you choose the race the armor is sized for.

If you anticipate having a large amount of tigers in the army, you can assign the jobs in the manager for many suits at a time, and then use 'd' over each armor job to make them all sized properly.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: DWARFFRAWD on September 02, 2016, 09:42:59 am
I have a problem. need help.

Putirid blendec's tile does not printed.

The [graphics_fd_dead.txt] file  doesn't recognizes  [dead_blendec.png] file.

Other civ's tile image printed well. but Blendec's tile not printed.

How to you? your tile file shows Putrid blendec's tile well?

(https://www.googledrive.com/host/0B7QgSiEmxGIIVE90VW0yc2dxcWs)

Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 02, 2016, 11:54:39 pm
I have a problem. need help.

Putirid blendec's tile does not printed.

The [graphics_fd_dead.txt] file  doesn't recognizes  [dead_blendec.png] file.

Other civ's tile image printed well. but Blendec's tile not printed.

How to you? your tile file shows Putrid blendec's tile well?

(https://www.googledrive.com/host/0B7QgSiEmxGIIVE90VW0yc2dxcWs)



I finally managed to find the solution.
In the graphics_fd_dead.txt file, change
Code: [Select]
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:BLENDEC_FD]to
Code: [Select]
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:BLENDECFD]
Also, the current versions of the mod uploaded to DFFD have had this bug fixed.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: Lordsservent-san on September 03, 2016, 01:54:00 am
So, when is the current version of Fortress defense going to be put into masterwork? Because from what I can see, there should be no compatibility issues for the 43.03 version that masterwork is currently on.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 03, 2016, 12:04:26 pm
So, when is the current version of Fortress defense going to be put into masterwork? Because from what I can see, there should be no compatibility issues for the 43.03 version that masterwork is currently on.

I'm not sure. There are quite a few issues with the version that Meph is using, which hasn't been updated since he released the first version of Masterwork for the latest DF iteration. He seems to have been away on travels for a while recently and unable to make updates.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: flyteofheart on September 03, 2016, 09:28:07 pm
My god War Elephants do not mess around

for some reason I was not expecting them to come CLAD IN STEEL PLATE and using mauls! plus the elephants would just knock into them and i would get the "slammed into an obstacle" messages lmfao.

I lost my ENTIRE military (2 melee squads and 2 marksdwarf squads that ended up being body shields for a while) in the battle and pretty much barely kill them all with 1 last emergency squad of random "visitor death fodder" who picked off the mortally wounded remaining elephants.

truly a battle for the ages, I havnt come that close to death and yet managed to hold it off in a long long time. It looks like I have to start from scratch with military training and every migrant is going to get conscripted for a few seasons. LOVE this mod so much.

also: using a warwolf on my squad was a bad idea. it turned one of the elephants feral and then that feral war elephant converted 2 of MY dwarves. I had the warwolf dancer-turned-military equipped with a 2H sword (that it could use in ONE hand so also used a shield) and it was kicking ass, im pretty sure it personally killed half the elephants before going down

is there any chance you can make ferals not transfer the "disease" though? especially since it was from my side

if not thats fine, the warwolves ARE kinda OP to conscript XD
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 03, 2016, 11:56:50 pm
My god War Elephants do not mess around

for some reason I was not expecting them to come CLAD IN STEEL PLATE and using mauls! plus the elephants would just knock into them and i would get the "slammed into an obstacle" messages lmfao.

I lost my ENTIRE military (2 melee squads and 2 marksdwarf squads that ended up being body shields for a while) in the battle and pretty much barely kill them all with 1 last emergency squad of random "visitor death fodder" who picked off the mortally wounded remaining elephants.

truly a battle for the ages, I havnt come that close to death and yet managed to hold it off in a long long time. It looks like I have to start from scratch with military training and every migrant is going to get conscripted for a few seasons. LOVE this mod so much.

also: using a warwolf on my squad was a bad idea. it turned one of the elephants feral and then that feral war elephant converted 2 of MY dwarves. I had the warwolf dancer-turned-military equipped with a 2H sword (that it could use in ONE hand so also used a shield) and it was kicking ass, im pretty sure it personally killed half the elephants before going down

is there any chance you can make ferals not transfer the "disease" though? especially since it was from my side

if not thats fine, the warwolves ARE kinda OP to conscript XD

That does indeed sound like an epic battle! I love to see Fortress Defense races pushing players to the edge, and players triumphing through adversity.

Friendly warwolves are indeed badasses; I have fond memories of my own warwolf mercs converting enemies and slaying forgotten beasts :)

Unfortunately, the ability of ferals to theoretically cause a chain reaction of conversion among friends and foe alike is part of the intent for the interaction, which is why I would prefer to leave it as it is. It spreads chaos and provides an additional avenue of attack for otherwise melee-specialized foes. Plus, I like there to be some plusses and minuses for accessing such a powerful ability for the player.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: Lordsservent-san on September 04, 2016, 02:08:26 am
Hey darkflagrence, thank you for creating this wonderful mod. I am enjoying all of the stories it creates, both in world gen and fortress mode, and for allowing me to eventually make some interesting stories of my own, once I actually settle down long enough to actually begin getting assaulted.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: mattyb3 on September 04, 2016, 04:22:17 pm

I'm not sure. There are quite a few issues with the version that Meph is using, which hasn't been updated since he released the first version of Masterwork for the latest DF iteration. He seems to have been away on travels for a while recently and unable to make updates.


I've been using the version bundled with masterwork, and haven't' had any sieges or attacks yet.. i'm year 2 with 80 pop and 500k wealth. I made sure that most of the races could reach me on embark. Is his version bugged in some way?
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 04, 2016, 05:59:07 pm

I'm not sure. There are quite a few issues with the version that Meph is using, which hasn't been updated since he released the first version of Masterwork for the latest DF iteration. He seems to have been away on travels for a while recently and unable to make updates.


I've been using the version bundled with masterwork, and haven't' had any sieges or attacks yet.. i'm year 2 with 80 pop and 500k wealth. I made sure that most of the races could reach me on embark. Is his version bugged in some way?

It hopefully isn't bugged in that way. The problem is that if you allow the world to get too old (I like to use 40-50 years of world gen), or don't settle near invader races, they might take a while to come as DF tries to simulate travel times and word spreading about your fortress. This often means there are lags between the traders reporting your fort is rich and invaders deciding to start marching. Three-four years might be necessary to start seeing enemies, which is a good chance to make sure your defenses and troops are up to snuff.

You can always copy the files from this version into your raws before starting a new world and see.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: mattyb3 on September 04, 2016, 06:21:45 pm
It hopefully isn't bugged in that way. The problem is that if you allow the world to get too old (I like to use 40-50 years of world gen), or don't settle near invader races, they might take a while to come as DF tries to simulate travel times and word spreading about your fortress. This often means there are lags between the traders reporting your fort is rich and invaders deciding to start marching. Three-four years might be necessary to start seeing enemies, which is a good chance to make sure your defenses and troops are up to snuff.

You can always copy the files from this version into your raws before starting a new world and see.

Alright, thanks. I genned the world for 100 years, so maybe that's why. I'll report if they come (and at what year) so far i've had 1 werebeast and 1 minotaur attack.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: Broseidon on September 04, 2016, 08:06:29 pm
(http://puu.sh/r0dhg/b728a37f23.png)

My game keeps crashing at world gen no matter how many years I run it or what settings I use. I haven't played in a very long time so I could be doing something super dumb, but I installed the mod correctly and this constant crashing is triggering me. I'm just using lazy newb pack and tried searching for people with the same issue as me but couldn't find anything.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 04, 2016, 08:52:08 pm
(http://puu.sh/r0dhg/b728a37f23.png)

My game keeps crashing at world gen no matter how many years I run it or what settings I use. I haven't played in a very long time so I could be doing something super dumb, but I installed the mod correctly and this constant crashing is triggering me. I'm just using lazy newb pack and tried searching for people with the same issue as me but couldn't find anything.

Upload your raws to the DF File Depot and link them here, and also post your error log. There might be hints to the causes in either of those locations.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: Broseidon on September 04, 2016, 09:08:22 pm
(http://puu.sh/r0dhg/b728a37f23.png)

My game keeps crashing at world gen no matter how many years I run it or what settings I use. I haven't played in a very long time so I could be doing something super dumb, but I installed the mod correctly and this constant crashing is triggering me. I'm just using lazy newb pack and tried searching for people with the same issue as me but couldn't find anything.

Upload your raws to the DF File Depot and link them here, and also post your error log. There might be hints to the causes in either of those locations.

How do i go about uploading my raws, in a non time consuming way. I've never uploaded anything to DFFD before, and I don't have an errorlog.txt file I have tried fresh installing like 4x. The base game works it's just when I install the mod that it doesn't work. Maybe I'm installing it wrong? I put the graphics and graphics txt into the graphics raw folder and took all the entities out of all 3 folders and the ones not in a folder and dumped them into the objects folder. Idk I'm computer retarded also.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: Lordsservent-san on September 04, 2016, 09:13:13 pm

I'm not sure. There are quite a few issues with the version that Meph is using, which hasn't been updated since he released the first version of Masterwork for the latest DF iteration. He seems to have been away on travels for a while recently and unable to make updates.


I've been using the version bundled with masterwork, and haven't' had any sieges or attacks yet.. i'm year 2 with 80 pop and 500k wealth. I made sure that most of the races could reach me on embark. Is his version bugged in some way?
No, if you hit year three without getting any sieges at all, then you have a bug. As it is, the armies of FD are likely getting packed up and getting ready to arrive at your fort once their appropriate season in year 3 is there.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 04, 2016, 09:23:24 pm
My game keeps crashing at world gen no matter how many years I run it or what settings I use. I haven't played in a very long time so I could be doing something super dumb, but I installed the mod correctly and this constant crashing is triggering me. I'm just using lazy newb pack and tried searching for people with the same issue as me but couldn't find anything.

Upload your raws to the DF File Depot and link them here, and also post your error log. There might be hints to the causes in either of those locations.

How do i go about uploading my raws, in a non time consuming way. I've never uploaded anything to DFFD before, and I don't have an errorlog.txt file I have tried fresh installing like 4x. The base game works it's just when I install the mod that it doesn't work. Maybe I'm installing it wrong? I put the graphics and graphics txt into the graphics raw folder and took all the entities out of all 3 folders and the ones not in a folder and dumped them into the objects folder. Idk I'm computer retarded also.

How do you start the mod? Do you click the actual Dwarf Fortress.exe or is there a start-up tool for LNP? If you click the .exe, there should be an errorlog.txt file in the same folder that might help.

You can try right-clicking your raw folder, in the pop-up menu that appears, click "Send to"> "Compressed (zipped) folder" then upload that using any file-sharing website. I recommend DFFD because that is where Fortress Defense is hosted in my OP.

You can also just screenshot the contents of your raw folder and let me see what is in there.

Other things you can try are sending me your entire dwarf fortress folder using the above method to create a compressed file, changing your world-gen settings to increase number of civs or start in a region, and checking for other mods (there might be default installations from LNP that conflict with Fortress Defense, though I don't know of any).
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: Broseidon on September 04, 2016, 09:33:46 pm
My game keeps crashing at world gen no matter how many years I run it or what settings I use. I haven't played in a very long time so I could be doing something super dumb, but I installed the mod correctly and this constant crashing is triggering me. I'm just using lazy newb pack and tried searching for people with the same issue as me but couldn't find anything.

Upload your raws to the DF File Depot and link them here, and also post your error log. There might be hints to the causes in either of those locations.

How do i go about uploading my raws, in a non time consuming way. I've never uploaded anything to DFFD before, and I don't have an errorlog.txt file I have tried fresh installing like 4x. The base game works it's just when I install the mod that it doesn't work. Maybe I'm installing it wrong? I put the graphics and graphics txt into the graphics raw folder and took all the entities out of all 3 folders and the ones not in a folder and dumped them into the objects folder. Idk I'm computer retarded also.

How do you start the mod? Do you click the actual Dwarf Fortress.exe or is there a start-up tool for LNP? If you click the .exe, there should be an errorlog.txt file in the same folder that might help.

You can try right-clicking your raw folder, in the pop-up menu that appears, click "Send to"> "Compressed (zipped) folder" then upload that using any file-sharing website. I recommend DFFD because that is where Fortress Defense is hosted in my OP.

You can also just screenshot the contents of your raw folder and let me see what is in there.

Other things you can try are sending me your entire dwarf fortress folder using the above method to create a compressed file, changing your world-gen settings to increase number of civs or start in a region, and checking for other mods (there might be default installations from LNP that conflict with Fortress Defense, though I don't know of any).

I clicked on the .exe this time and it still didnt create an errorlog.txt file. I totally forgot about zipping folders lmao It's been too long. I'm uploading my entire DF folder to you rn it's just taking a while, I'll edit this post when it's completed

(http://puu.sh/r0ims/38de1d902e.jpg)

I'm dying inside

Do you have a skype or something I can transfer these files through instead?
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 04, 2016, 10:04:35 pm
I haven't used skype in years >_>

I'm also skeptical of whether the DL would be faster...
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: Broseidon on September 04, 2016, 10:44:14 pm
I haven't used skype in years >_>

I'm also skeptical of whether the DL would be faster...

DFFD giving me errors for uploading it, all errors all day over here I guess lmao
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 04, 2016, 11:23:46 pm
I haven't used skype in years >_>

I'm also skeptical of whether the DL would be faster...

DFFD giving me errors for uploading it, all errors all day over here I guess lmao

Try just sending the raw folder. You can also try google drive or other file-sharing sites.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: Broseidon on September 04, 2016, 11:31:44 pm
I haven't used skype in years >_>

I'm also skeptical of whether the DL would be faster...

DFFD giving me errors for uploading it, all errors all day over here I guess lmao

Try just sending the raw folder. You can also try google drive or other file-sharing sites.

Took me 14 tries but here it is

http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=12428
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 05, 2016, 01:47:46 am
I haven't used skype in years >_>

I'm also skeptical of whether the DL would be faster...

DFFD giving me errors for uploading it, all errors all day over here I guess lmao

Try just sending the raw folder. You can also try google drive or other file-sharing sites.

Took me 14 tries but here it is

http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=12428

Thank you for the upload. I've been hacking away at it, but it's much harder than I thought to find the bug. If you hadn't uploaded that save, I would not have realized how serious this problem might be.

Edit: It seems the latest version is not compatible with 43.03 and lower, which is quite strange as I cannot figure out why. The crash when placing sites suggests it is an entity change, possibly the added mercenary capabilities in v20.

I have created a version that should be compatible with 43.03 and should work with the version Broseidon uploaded. It can be found at the below link:
http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=12429 (http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=12429)
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: jecowa on September 05, 2016, 02:43:46 am
I tested both basic and challenge mode, with artifacts & aquifers on and off, and with DFHack on and off. I was able to get it to crash twice. In both cases it was with DFHack on, in Challenge version, with aquifers and artifacts disabled. These conditions didn't always make it crash, though.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 05, 2016, 04:02:40 am
I tested both basic and challenge mode, with artifacts & aquifers on and off, and with DFHack on and off. I was able to get it to crash twice. In both cases it was with DFHack on, in Challenge version, with aquifers and artifacts disabled. These conditions didn't always make it crash, though.

I had similar results as well, in that the crash is not guaranteed and if you regen enough you can avoid it. Which versions did you test of both Fortress Defense and Dwarf Fortress? I found that I only got the crashes when using v20 in 43.03 and lower versions.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: jecowa on September 05, 2016, 04:20:22 am
I was testing with these two versions:
Fortress Defense II R v20 - Challenge/Bonus (http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=3081) (2016-09-03 version)
Fortress Defense II v20 - Basic Only (http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=3197) (2016-09-03 version)

In Dwarf Fortress v0.43.03 in the Lazy Mac Pack v0.43.03-dfhack.r1-b

Most of the time it generated the world just fine. I did at least 10 world gens. Did it ever crash for you while DFHack was off?
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 05, 2016, 04:47:30 am
I was testing with these two versions:
Fortress Defense II R v20 - Challenge/Bonus (http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=3081) (2016-09-03 version)
Fortress Defense II v20 - Basic Only (http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=3197) (2016-09-03 version)

In Dwarf Fortress v0.43.03 in the Lazy Mac Pack v0.43.03-dfhack.r1-b

Most of the time it generated the world just fine. I did at least 10 world gens. Did it ever crash for you while DFHack was off?

I actually did get crashes when testing 43.03 with v20 without DFHack, which is why I released the 43.03 specific version. I should do more testing to confirm this.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: jecowa on September 05, 2016, 07:15:58 am
I don't think the difference between Dwarf Fortress v0.43.03 and v0.43.05 is great enough to make a difference on this mod.

Could this be a duped raws problem? I only had this problem with the Challenge/Bonus version of the mod. And I think I installed that one incorrectly. I took the files out of all three civs folder and dumped them into the main objects folder, but I don't think I was supposed to do that. It looks like Broseidon installed the mod this way too.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: Broseidon on September 05, 2016, 12:42:51 pm
 it crashed a couple times but now it seems stable, and yes I did install it that way as well. Thanks a ton for your help man.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 05, 2016, 01:59:56 pm
I don't think the difference between Dwarf Fortress v0.43.03 and v0.43.05 is great enough to make a difference on this mod.

Could this be a duped raws problem? I only had this problem with the Challenge/Bonus version of the mod. And I think I installed that one incorrectly. I took the files out of all three civs folder and dumped them into the main objects folder, but I don't think I was supposed to do that. It looks like Broseidon installed the mod this way too.

I actually tested out the duped raws installation as well, but it didn't actually cause the world gen crash, to my surprise. Oh well, this is a bizarre mystery indeed.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: Lordsservent-san on September 05, 2016, 03:23:38 pm
Was the world hilariously messed up?
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 05, 2016, 05:36:25 pm
Was the world hilariously messed up?

Surprisingly, nothing bad seemed to happen. Only the entity raws were duplicated, which may be why. Although it is possible that the duplicate raws were one cause of the crashes Broseidon reported, I doubt the two were directly related.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: Iriswaters on September 08, 2016, 08:51:43 pm
Hello!

So first off, I just found you mod while poking around on Reddit, and really loving it.  Getting annihilated a lot, but certainly far more interesting than vanilla.

However, I started noticing I was being attacked by all sorts of terrible enemies -very- early on.  All tiers of races, all on very young fortresses.  'Tier 2 and 3' races with less than 50 dwarves and rather meager possessions, and tier 4/challenge monsters immediately upon hitting 50.  Plus the bonus races at the same level as stranglers and beak wolves.  Ruthertaur hordes early in my second year. 

I started poking at the raws to see if I could change this, and I noticed that in the entity_txt files for each race, the PROGRESS_TRIGGER_SIEGE values were all quite low.  1s and 2s and the rare 3.  Curious if this is intentional?

Also of note, in most of them PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE_SIEGE occurs twice(often with different values) and PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PROD_SIEGEis missing.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: Iriswaters on September 08, 2016, 09:12:30 pm
Realized I should be looking at(and changing) the complied entity_txt files that actually get moved into the raw/objects.  But they have the same values, so the question remains.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 09, 2016, 12:13:50 am
Realized I should be looking at(and changing) the complied entity_txt files that actually get moved into the raw/objects.  But they have the same values, so the question remains.

Thanks for enjoying the mod, and for catching the duplicated trade triggers! I will update the current version for the affected civs to use production triggers. That will be up once I make the appropriate edits. In terms of balance, I will take a look at the current standing of the civs and update with the next version.

You can also change the progress triggers to affect an in-progress save, so you can customize arrival times if you want. 3 is 80 dwarves, the same as goblins, and 2 is 50. Based on my testing a tier 3 fort should have enough time to handle the enemies at tier 3 if you prepare and equip accordingly (challenge enemies not included). A 0 for progress trigger means the trigger is not used and population is the sole criterion.

I have set the progress triggers low because the latest version of Dwarf Fortress tries to simulate enemies walking to your fort, which still leads to long delays for siege arrival in the worst case scenarios, as well as extremely early sieges when the enemies are located nearby. As such, I have tried to guard against the cases involving the most boredom, at the cost of the cases that involve the most !!!FUN!!!. Challenge races are intended to be challenging.

The intent behind including bonus races is that you know how to gear up quickly to face them. In fact, many of the rank 2 races are quite easy to kill as well, being at about goblin level or slightly tougher (isn't harder to be much tougher than goblins). By 50 dwarves, I usually have about two squads armored with whatever metal I can take from the caravans, even anvils, tools, and trade goods I melted down.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Iriswaters on September 09, 2016, 01:39:37 am
Ok, but I had 4 squads, a good start on training, all in steel, a total of 50 dwarves, and Nightwings showed up.    And we failed to kill a single one.  That's an extreme example, but ...

The tier ones are -noticeably-  harder than goblins.   Beak wolfs latch on, so unless your dwarf is highly skilled they never get a hit in.  Stranglers move fast enough that positioning ends up a real issue, though that's about it.  Ferric elves I can take down pretty reliably, but they're still a fair bit tougher than gobs. 

But really the main issue is the near-guarantee of tier 4-5 enemies showing up just after a new wave of migrants arrives, when I've only had 30 dwarves for more than a  couple months...  Your default has nightwing and ruthertaur as progress-level -2-.    O_o
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 09, 2016, 09:05:14 am
Those are challenge races. But I will upload a repatch to raise them to 80 based on your feedback.

Nightwings are pending rewrite anyway, I hope.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Iriswaters on September 10, 2016, 01:08:48 am
Ok. 

Other bit of feedback for your rewrite:  Nightwing do not appear to fly.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Lordsservent-san on September 10, 2016, 01:20:42 am
Ok. 

Other bit of feedback for your rewrite:  Nightwing do not appear to fly.
Actually, that's intentional, because flying units that come in flying tend to get stuck on the edge of the map, leading to an endless siege by an enemy that can't be killed.

Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Iriswaters on September 10, 2016, 07:14:42 am
Gotcha.  Issue with DF, not FD. 

Btw, I am realizing part of why I was having more trouble than normal.  In order to be ensured of all enemy races, I was playing on a -small- world, with number of civs turned way up.  Along with an ultra short history, this ensures all enemy civs will be in range, but it also means they are all very close.  Hence the functionally guaranteed siege by large numbers of tier 3-4 forces by the summer of the second year.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 10, 2016, 10:20:09 am
Gotcha.  Issue with DF, not FD. 

Btw, I am realizing part of why I was having more trouble than normal.  In order to be ensured of all enemy races, I was playing on a -small- world, with number of civs turned way up.  Along with an ultra short history, this ensures all enemy civs will be in range, but it also means they are all very close.  Hence the functionally guaranteed siege by large numbers of tier 3-4 forces by the summer of the second year.

That does make a lot of sense. Maybe I'll hold off on the progress trigger increases and wait for further feedback.

It also sounds like a lot of !!!FUN!!!. Might want to run a world like that when the new DF comes out.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Iriswaters on September 17, 2016, 10:33:56 pm
Hello. 

So, after setting the things back to their original settings(mostly), running into a new complication.  Sieges not arriving.  Like, I get the message that there's a siege, but they don't ever actually attack?  Been happening a lot recently.  Uncertain if this is something I've mucked about with(and hence not something you should be concerned about) or some larger issue.  Just wanted to put it out there.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 17, 2016, 10:55:45 pm
Hello. 

So, after setting the things back to their original settings(mostly), running into a new complication.  Sieges not arriving.  Like, I get the message that there's a siege, but they don't ever actually attack?  Been happening a lot recently.  Uncertain if this is something I've mucked about with(and hence not something you should be concerned about) or some larger issue.  Just wanted to put it out there.

If you are getting a message that there is a siege, but nothing actually appears to attack, usually that's caused by a thief appearing on your site, triggering a bug that makes the game treat it as a siege. Sieges that do arrive on the map but take some time to attack your fort might do so because they cannot pathfind through some bottleneck, or because they get distracted by ostriches or camels on the surface.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Iriswaters on September 22, 2016, 08:34:13 am
I think on some of the occasions there ends up being a clash between 2 sieges that end up killing each other.  But other times I think it was a bug of some kind.  Probably the thief issue.

Another query, are Nakashim not building destroyers?  I have set up a killing field between me and the outside, with some doors between me and the killing field that I've locked so that my archers don't go derping down into melee the moment they run out of bolts, but I have now had a siege of Nakashim hanging out in  the space between them for a couple months.  It's a young fortress, so I was hoping to get them to my bottleneck for the fight, which involves them first knocking down those doors, but they move up to the them, hover and then move away repeatedly.  They know to path to the door, they just decide against breaking it.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 22, 2016, 10:05:45 pm
I think on some of the occasions there ends up being a clash between 2 sieges that end up killing each other.  But other times I think it was a bug of some kind.  Probably the thief issue.

Another query, are Nakashim not building destroyers?  I have set up a killing field between me and the outside, with some doors between me and the killing field that I've locked so that my archers don't go derping down into melee the moment they run out of bolts, but I have now had a siege of Nakashim hanging out in  the space between them for a couple months.  It's a young fortress, so I was hoping to get them to my bottleneck for the fight, which involves them first knocking down those doors, but they move up to the them, hover and then move away repeatedly.  They know to path to the door, they just decide against breaking it.

Currently nothing in Fortress Defense Mod destroys buildings, because people often complained about receiving building destroyer visitors. As such...the Nakashim will happily wait outside your locked doors as long as necessary.

You could just unlock the doors, or link them to a lever.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Iriswaters on September 23, 2016, 07:11:59 am
Ah.  Hmm.  I suppose I could.  I set up doors I could lock for the purpose of preventing my archers from derping, without having to lock them into a separate part of the fortress(and having to supply it with food and booze and having to be sure they are all in before locking it).

It seems an odd decision to not have these critters not do building destroying.  Curious what the nature of the complaints were, seems to me it feels straightforward that most intelligent attackers would have the capacity to break down doors.    And if one wants to remain safe from them, there's always the option of drawbridges.

I will probably rework my fortress to be vulnerable as is, though managing my archer troops with that is gonna be a pain.    When I inevitably die, I'll probably go mod the raws to at least have the more advanced species have it enabled.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Lordsservent-san on September 23, 2016, 01:26:02 pm
Ah.  Hmm.  I suppose I could.  I set up doors I could lock for the purpose of preventing my archers from derping, without having to lock them into a separate part of the fortress(and having to supply it with food and booze and having to be sure they are all in before locking it).

It seems an odd decision to not have these critters not do building destroying.  Curious what the nature of the complaints were, seems to me it feels straightforward that most intelligent attackers would have the capacity to break down doors.    And if one wants to remain safe from them, there's always the option of drawbridges.

I will probably rework my fortress to be vulnerable as is, though managing my archer troops with that is gonna be a pain.    When I inevitably die, I'll probably go mod the raws to at least have the more advanced species have it enabled.
The complaints were about what would happen when friendly building destroyers came to visit. They wouldn't attack anyone, but they would knock over statues, break doors, destroy farms and even topple workshops if they were allowed inside the fortress.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on September 24, 2016, 12:48:33 am
It seems an odd decision to not have these critters not do building destroying.  Curious what the nature of the complaints were, seems to me it feels straightforward that most intelligent attackers would have the capacity to break down doors. And if one wants to remain safe from them, there's always the option of drawbridges.

The problem was all the mercenaries who weren't hostile but still broke stuff. The visitors would arrive and literally break every single building from the front gates to the deepest mines while your dwarves stood by and watched. You could kill them manually, but most of the time another would arrive instantly and resume the demolitions. Once I started getting a decent number of visitors my game degenerated into a non-stop hunt for the frost giant bard who was kicking down the magma floodgates. It basically forced a choice between having no visitors or constantly rebuilding the fort.

Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Iriswaters on September 24, 2016, 09:49:27 am
Aaand I just came back to see if people had responded with exactly this information, as I learned it the hard way myself.  Sigh.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 24, 2016, 11:40:12 am
Aaand I just came back to see if people had responded with exactly this information, as I learned it the hard way myself.  Sigh.

Yes - in the current version if your civ has thieves, it will send visitors. That's why there ended up being no way to isolate the building destroyer tag to some of the tougher, crazier civs like frost giants and ruthertaurs. Even when the fiend spiders were the last building destroyers in Fortress Defense, people somehow still managed to receive spider visitors who wrecked their forts. So building destroyer had to go.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on September 25, 2016, 01:41:28 pm
Hey, small random bug: war wolves my latest war wolf siege are turning into... war wolves that are hostile to the war wolves? I keep getting the message, "War Wolf Pancake Maker (or whatever) has turned into a Feral!"

Then there is a loyalty cascade, and more war wolves seem to get bitten and infected in the fighting. The results are absolutely hysterical if you enjoy carnage as much as I do. Not sure what kicked it off, just noticed them obliterating themselves.

Also, an entire Naga siege was just broken by a single were-elephant. The Were bled out right after but my god it was terrifying to watch.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Lordsservent-san on September 25, 2016, 02:28:07 pm
Hey, small random bug: war wolves my latest war wolf siege are turning into... war wolves that are hostile to the war wolves? I keep getting the message, "War Wolf Pancake Maker (or whatever) has turned into a Feral!"

Then there is a loyalty cascade, and more war wolves seem to get bitten and infected in the fighting. The results are absolutely hysterical if you enjoy carnage as much as I do. Not sure what kicked it off, just noticed them obliterating themselves.

Also, an entire Naga siege was just broken by a single were-elephant. The Were bled out right after but my god it was terrifying to watch.
It's not a bug, it's a feature.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Iriswaters on September 25, 2016, 02:55:23 pm
I think they are saying that the -warwolves- were turning feral for some reason, not that they were turning the dwarves into ferals.  Only way that makes sense is if the fort had a warwolf merc on their side.  Otherwise it sounds like a bug.  Never seen that happen, personally.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Thatotherguy23 on September 26, 2016, 02:51:50 am
Having issues with Raptormen. After installing on latest Lazy Newb Pack it crashes after finishing worldgen. Specifically on (u)se world as it currently exists on medium regions. I did install with individual entity files, as soon as I remove raptormen worldgen works fine after stopping; issue is either with it's entity file or it's section in creature_fdbonus.txt. Fresh LNP and latest Fortress Defense mod
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on September 26, 2016, 11:44:40 am
I think they are saying that the -warwolves- were turning feral for some reason, not that they were turning the dwarves into ferals.  Only way that makes sense is if the fort had a warwolf merc on their side.  Otherwise it sounds like a bug.  Never seen that happen, personally.

Yeah, I have a warwolf merc but he's never been near this siege. My puny military couldn't handle the 100+ warwolves attacking me so I locked the gates to wait it out.

The other possibility, looking at the piles of corpses scattered around the map, is that visitors (usually mercs who can fight) are arriving, getting attacked, getting bitten, turning, biting warwolves, and then getting killed. But that means the warwolf who gets bitten then turns onto a were-warwolf and goes berzerk or something?
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 27, 2016, 01:33:08 am
Having issues with Raptormen. After installing on latest Lazy Newb Pack it crashes after finishing worldgen. Specifically on (u)se world as it currently exists on medium regions. I did install with individual entity files, as soon as I remove raptormen worldgen works fine after stopping; issue is either with it's entity file or it's section in creature_fdbonus.txt. Fresh LNP and latest Fortress Defense mod

I'm currently checking this out. I'll reply once I have an update.

I think they are saying that the -warwolves- were turning feral for some reason, not that they were turning the dwarves into ferals.  Only way that makes sense is if the fort had a warwolf merc on their side.  Otherwise it sounds like a bug.  Never seen that happen, personally.

Yeah, I have a warwolf merc but he's never been near this siege. My puny military couldn't handle the 100+ warwolves attacking me so I locked the gates to wait it out.

The other possibility, looking at the piles of corpses scattered around the map, is that visitors (usually mercs who can fight) are arriving, getting attacked, getting bitten, turning, biting warwolves, and then getting killed. But that means the warwolf who gets bitten then turns onto a were-warwolf and goes berzerk or something?

It might be possible to reproduce this bug in Arena mode, which I am looking into as well.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Meph on September 29, 2016, 04:54:40 pm
A suggestions:

After getting reports from players that they are still getting not enough sieges, maybe it would be interesting to use very powerful creatures in entities and design them like kobolds, with skulking and item_thief or baby_snatcher tags.

Armies and ambushes have to move across the map to reach your fort. If I understood it correctly, thieves and snatcher do NOT have to do that, and are spawned on your map edge.

You could make civs that send single units like kobolds, but then get... PRONE_TO_RAGE or OPPOSED_TO_LIFE to force them to attack, instead of running away. They could use special interactions in combat.

For example necromancers or mages with different castes. Banshees and poltergeists that affect people with syndromes that lower their mood with CE_EMOTION tags. Werebeasts, zombies or lepers that affect dwarves with syndromes that they give to more dwarves...
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: jecowa on September 29, 2016, 06:21:16 pm
While checking what faction everyone was on, I noticed that the Hellfire faction has the Babysnatcher tag twice. Probably not a big deal, but just in case you care about that.

Warning: Possible Fortress Defense Mod II spoilers follow!
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Iriswaters on September 30, 2016, 08:24:17 pm
Wow...

What the heck are Nightwing made out of?  O_o   I had a medium age fortress, that had managed to rebuff about a dozen sieges(light stuff, tigers, frogs, raptors, blendec, etc).  About 90 dwarves.  5 squads, 3 marks, 2 melee mainly wielding silver hammers and steel axes.  All 50 decked out in full steel.  Marks had a total of 5-6 elites, no elite melee but definitely some skill.  I had set things up to have a long killing field I could rain bolts down on, and have upped the power of crossbows to partially counter the nerf that causes 3000 bolts to bounce off steel and only cause minimal bruising, because that feels unrealistic and annoying.

Anyway, just had 2 sieges arrive simultaneously, one of warwolves and one of Nightwing.  They fought it out on a corner of my surface map, while I rained bolts on them.  One Nightwing seems to have glitch-dodged through or over my wall, and ended up among my troops, and started tearing into my archers before I could do much about it.  But I sent my 2 squads of full steel melee to face it.  And....  1 Nightwing took out my entire fortress.  By the end, every location was in the red, it had no weapons or armor, but it was still killing slapped together squads of untrained rookies with ease. 

I lost all but 2 dwarves, one of which was a child, before the single invader made his escape.  This whole experience was baffling and terrifying, and leaves me utterly baffled as to how one could ever face such enemies in numbers without resorting to broken mechanics(bridges and the like) or cave-in traps...
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Thatotherguy23 on October 01, 2016, 10:20:07 pm
Wow...

What the heck are Nightwing made out of?  O_o
Steel tissue. They don't need armour or weapons ha. So anything below steel would do next to nothing, and axes are the least useful things against anything armoured at the axes' own material or above. Candy armour, edged weapons and steel warhammers/maces are recommended against challenge races. You had no elite melee but you NEED them especially in dodging and with shields, plus all armour coverage at the least (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Armor) with leather/clothing also full coverage underneath if you want to give them more chances to not die; I'd suggest danger rooms but it's not necessary. Also, force transference that Toady added in makes all combat more deadly to all combatants, so one direct punch from a larger creature made out of steel...Well it doesn't go well for the average military dorf. Multiple mail shirts and full clothing coverage underneath used to help immensely, I'd like to think with force transference they're even more useful? I wouldn't know about xbows, I haven't used them for much other than mass-hunting patrols and against the weaker races.

One Nightwing seems to have glitch-dodged through or over my wall, and ended up among my troops, and started tearing into my archers before I could do much about it.
Make sure your walls are two wide, it's been noted for the last few bunches of DF updates that any dodging can dodge through walls one tile thick, including diagonal.

This whole experience was baffling and terrifying, and leaves me utterly baffled as to how one could ever face such enemies in numbers without resorting to broken mechanics(bridges and the like) or cave-in traps...
The 10 Basic races and 4 Bonus races are more than enough challenge for most DF players, the Challenge races are for those desperate to face the most torturous ‼FUN‼ and painstakingly win against the worst of the worst. But most likely to perish eventually, it was inevitable. You're meant to think it was baffling and terrifying, they are built to end fortresses that aren't supremely prepared single-handedly...success! However I'd consider Nightwings the second easiest of the four, but that doesn't mean they're 'easy' at all. If you get bored of the circus plus all the other races and/or you usually embark in Evil/Terrifying zones etc. and still want more punishment...it's time for Challenge races. Or, as you mentioned, if you just want to exploit mechanics and laugh at them. It's up to the player and how they enjoy things, personally I only enable one or two challenge races at a time plus almost all the other races.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Thatotherguy23 on October 02, 2016, 03:39:36 am
Double post, but Darkflagrance I poked around again and seemed to have the issue with the hellfire imps with just basic installed and using individual entity files. But this may all be issues on my end on something I've done while tired and testing if you can't reproduce any crashes; this isn't anything dire

Oh, and your signature link to Tholtig Cryptbrain should be http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=42702 instead of http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=42702 or it won't work
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: DWARFFRAWD on October 02, 2016, 08:50:57 pm
I have two questions.

1. Can i use latest defense mod (R21) to DF 43.03?
Any problem with using not corresponding version?

2. My dwarfs can't use full plate armor?
All invade civs i met, wear (Large full plate).
So because of size, my dwarf soldiers unable to wear Full
plate armor.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: jecowa on October 02, 2016, 09:21:22 pm
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: darkflagrance on October 03, 2016, 09:08:53 pm
I have two questions.

1. Can i use latest defense mod (R21) to DF 43.03?
Any problem with using not corresponding version?

2. My dwarfs can't use full plate armor?
All invade civs i met, wear (Large full plate).
So because of size, my dwarf soldiers unable to wear Full
plate armor.

1. See answer above.

2. Yep, dwarves can't use full plate because of size issues. There might be a small enough bonus race that uses full plate you can still steal it from.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: DWARFFRAWD on October 04, 2016, 10:24:06 am
I have another problem.

Large full plate armor doesn't stacked in quantum stockpile.

Other type armors stacked well through minecart in quantum stockpile.

But. dwarfs never haul F.P.A to minecart.

I setted take/give link and armor types perfectly.

Perhaps, size of F.P.A is too large to store in minecart?
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: darkflagrance on October 07, 2016, 11:40:47 pm
I might not be able to do any modding this weekend as I'm being called in to pull extra shifts. I'll try to see if I can do some work on Sunday.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v20: Individual Entity Files!
Post by: nuker22110 on October 09, 2016, 02:25:13 am
I haven't used skype in years >_>

I'm also skeptical of whether the DL would be faster...

DFFD giving me errors for uploading it, all errors all day over here I guess lmao

Try just sending the raw folder. You can also try google drive or other file-sharing sites.

Took me 14 tries but here it is

http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=12428

Thank you for the upload. I've been hacking away at it, but it's much harder than I thought to find the bug. If you hadn't uploaded that save, I would not have realized how serious this problem might be.

Edit: It seems the latest version is not compatible with 43.03 and lower, which is quite strange as I cannot figure out why. The crash when placing sites suggests it is an entity change, possibly the added mercenary capabilities in v20.

I have created a version that should be compatible with 43.03 and should work with the version Broseidon uploaded. It can be found at the below link:
http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=12429 (http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=12429)

would it be possible to add the various changes since v19d to the legacy version, especially the fixing of the duplicated triggers. am getting the crashes on finalizing sites on 43.03 too
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: pikachu17 on October 11, 2016, 09:21:05 am
the following spoilered are civ reactions, right? so why do they need the building? to take the building away, take the spoilered.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
and change it to
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
then you can remove the building.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: darkflagrance on October 15, 2016, 11:25:24 am
the following spoilered are civ reactions, right? so why do they need the building? to take the building away, take the spoilered.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
and change it to
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
then you can remove the building.

I've never heard of civ reactions working like that, unless something changed in the new version. These reactions were designed when the paradigm was that the civ had to have theoretical Fortress Mode access to the reaction to properly use it. Does another mod use civ reactions without needing to implement a building?
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: pikachu17 on October 18, 2016, 09:10:26 am
the following spoilered are civ reactions, right? so why do they need the building? to take the building away, take the spoilered.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
and change it to
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
then you can remove the building.

I've never heard of civ reactions working like that, unless something changed in the new version. These reactions were designed when the paradigm was that the civ had to have theoretical Fortress Mode access to the reaction to properly use it. Does another mod use civ reactions without needing to implement a building?
just look at reaction_fortress_defense in Masterwork, it specifically says the following spoilered
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
also I don't think they actually need a skill, either
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: fearlesslittletoaster on November 10, 2016, 12:00:17 pm
Thread has been dead for a while so just posting some general encouragement. I just got to watch like 100 Ferric Elf Ambushers have a thunderdome with 70 Ruthertaurs outside the gate. It was epic. The elves lost pretty hard. Then an ambush of War giant wrens flew in the open rooftop, but thankfully I keep that open to let light shine on the barracks so the problem solved itself. Giant wren biscuits all around! Now, what to do about this siege... 
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: darkflagrance on November 12, 2016, 10:44:15 pm
Thread has been dead for a while so just posting some general encouragement. I just got to watch like 100 Ferric Elf Ambushers have a thunderdome with 70 Ruthertaurs outside the gate. It was epic. The elves lost pretty hard. Then an ambush of War giant wrens flew in the open rooftop, but thankfully I keep that open to let light shine on the barracks so the problem solved itself. Giant wren biscuits all around! Now, what to do about this siege...

Thanks for the bump ;)

I've been getting killed at work with long, overtime-exempt hours, including weekends and holidays, which is why I haven't had time for testing lately. Plus, these crashes have been discouraging to work through lately as I don't have a good idea of their source.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: pikachu17 on November 16, 2016, 01:35:23 pm
Plus, these crashes have been discouraging to work through lately as I don't have a good idea of their source.
Have you tried removing certain files, to see which one is causing the crash?
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: YetAnotherLurker on November 25, 2016, 04:38:14 pm
I'm getting a crash at the end of worldgen (during the "Finalizing Sites" phase) if I use v21's entity files in 43.03 (with DFHack). Using v19(b, I think)'s entity files but v21's other files allows worldgen to complete properly. I haven't had the time/patience to do fully detailed testing, though.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Xen0n on March 15, 2017, 10:00:36 pm
Hello!  I'm very interested in this mod, since I haven't really played much past v 0.34.xx due to the new system for goblin sieges. 

Back then it was pretty simple: when your population and/or wealth reached certain milestones, you would start getting regular goblin sieges right away, which increased in size/strength with higher population / wealth. From my attempts with 0.40.xx so far, it seems that even when you pick a site with nearby goblin civs, it's still a toss-up whether you get any invasions (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/print_bug_page.php?bug_id=8754) due to the various checks the game has to run (are the goblins busy sieging other sites, do they have enough soldiers left over, etc.) Even when a siege does happen, in some cases it also seems to occur many years after embarking, or is pitifully small, at which point it is no longer a threat.

My main concerns are:


tl;dr:
I loved the invasion system back in v 0.34.xx and earlier, where goblins ALWAYS would send sieges of a certain size/strength as soon as you reached certain population / wealth milestones, without any chance of failure/delay. Would the Fortress Defense Mod II help to simulate that experience?
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: peli082 on March 25, 2017, 09:46:16 pm
Links doesn't work(atleast for me). Please fix.  :D
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Larsaal on March 27, 2017, 03:20:02 pm
Hmm the dffd.wimbli.com links don't work. You'll find it with same file ID at dffd.bay12games.com

So try http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=3081 (http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=3081) for Basic + Challenge Mode*Individual entity files included
and http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=3197 (http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=3197) for Basic Mode Only
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Prapor on April 20, 2017, 09:32:38 am
To me, even before the first caravan in the autumn, came 5 Warwolfs-zombies.
The entire population of the fort except the medic was called into the orderly ranks of the defenders of the homeland. It turned out to make a squad of 4 melee dwarves and a squad of 5 crossbowmen armed with wooden bolts (there were no others)
It was decided to meet the enemy at the entrance to the fortress. Crossbowmen gave several volleys on attacking enemies from the gate tower without any noticeable result (one of the werewolves tore off the tail and slightly damaged the others - but for zombies this is nonsense)
The first zombie immediately bitten the swordsman and he instantly turned into Warwolf, and also bitten his neighbor (+ another Warwolf). Chain reaction in action

As a result, the fortress was destroyed. IMHO zombies should not infect with a curse
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Thatotherguy23 on April 26, 2017, 05:32:12 pm
I'd be very wary about going into a haunted/evil biome with some of these races ha, they're tough to deal with when there's just a bunch nearby let alone reanimation and so forth. Plus, wooden bolts, or bolts at all versus zombies as well as probably barely armed or armoured ragtag dorfs? Pretty sure your guys were doomed even if they couldn't curse you. Your best bet before the first caravan would've been to hole up with a bridge and/or traps.

Don't think it would be possible to just stop them from cursing when they're zombified anyway
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Naryar on May 10, 2017, 07:11:52 pm
It seems that the new Fortress Defense enemies are somewhat overkill.

Seriously, dark stranglers with legendary dodging and bronze flesh ?

Time to start training a squad of war miners starting from the first waves.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Naryar on May 11, 2017, 06:13:40 pm
And now there is an adopted/conquered LEGENDARY WAR ELEPHANT in the absolute first tigermen siege (autumn of year 2). Fully armored, not in full plate hopefully.

I send my novice/adequate only partly armored war miners at them. It went about as went as you'll expect.

So I savescummed and I'm going to turtle or just cheese it with good old magma traps. I mean, what choice do I have ?

________________

I've been a fan of Fort Defense for quite a few years, I pretty much use it every time I play. I just think the DF2016 version is a bit too hardcore. Sorry if I appear whiny.



Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Lordsservent-san on May 12, 2017, 04:38:36 pm
And now there is an adopted/conquered LEGENDARY WAR ELEPHANT in the absolute first tigermen siege (autumn of year 2). Fully armored, not in full plate hopefully.

I send my novice/adequate only partly armored war miners at them. It went about as went as you'll expect.

So I savescummed and I'm going to turtle or just cheese it with good old magma traps. I mean, what choice do I have ?

________________

I've been a fan of Fort Defense for quite a few years, I pretty much use it every time I play. I just think the DF2016 version is a bit too hardcore. Sorry if I appear whiny.
It's fine, you don't seem too whiny to me. So, feel free to make some suggestions to the mod author(like needing Dark Strangler dodging), as long as you don't do too many at once.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Naryar on May 13, 2017, 10:26:23 am
I'd suggest... remove the warwolf syndrome bite, and dark stranglers are fine at legendary dodger, but bronze flesh plus legendary dodging seems too much for the weakest enemies in fort defense.

____________________

EDIT : To avoid multiple posting, I would also like to say that the [PET] tag of white tigermen makes some odd interactions with the ones that visit inns and ask to be integrated in my fortress Notably, they go in the pets/livestock screen, don't have jobs available and can be butchered.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Sanctume on August 03, 2017, 10:52:17 am
Woah, I need this in my quest for challenge.

Edit.
The link in the OP is broken because dffd.wimbli.com is old?
It should use dffd.bay12games.com instead.

I was able to get it using the file number in the wimbli address and use it in the bay12games address.

So this one works:
Release v0.21 R (for versions 43.05 and 43.04)
Download Basic + Challenge Mode*Individual entity files included (http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=3081)
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Nilsou on August 06, 2017, 06:04:23 pm
Good Job on this mod, i have few recommandation though

-> Include translations in general languages for name of your civs and creatures
-> Include Pantheon for the majority of them and ensure the DEATH alignement for having a lot of tower for more FUN. Without that your mods tends to lower the presence of Tower and necromant (and so the presence of FUN) due to the concurence the human races and other pantheon races have.
-> include symbol/tiles for civs during worldGen.

;)

Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Sanctume on August 07, 2017, 02:46:23 pm
I don't know where to post this, but I'll post it here for the sake of "testing." 

World-gen:  small region, 1 cavern layer max, up 20 starting civs from 10 (got too much rejection at 40), and minerals to 750. 

1. I got a dead or dying civ warning.  I abandoned after spring. 
2. New gen. Dead or dying civ warning; Modded Dwarf to have 8 arms.  I abandoned after autumn. 
3. New gen. Dead or dying civ warning; Modded Dwarf to have 4 arms only.  I abandoned after autumn again. I want a flatter embark. 

4. New gen. Dead or dying civ warning; Modded Dwarf to have 4 arms only.  Nightwings arrived Spring of 2nd year.  They fly, wear steel armor, and shoot steel bolts.  Undead keas were flying, and these Nighwings were one shotting the undead keas.  I raised bridged, I lack military.  I abandoned after an undead kea left the map with a stolen spent steel bolt, and the Nightwings are leaving also. 

5. New gen. Dead or dying civ warning; Dwarfs have 4 arms.  Year 2 spring, expedition leader became queen.  No sieges yet.  No army to speak off. 
Had a dwarf trader but no liaison, and elf trader come.  Biome has 1 haunted area, rains goblin blood that makes a dwarf despair. 

Anyway, I try to make 20 steel armor set and weapons ~ 210 steel bars.
I am testing between embarking with "limonite + marble + bit coals" and smelting them on the surface. 
Versus, 10 garnerite ores; to make nickel minecarts and fill them up and make the magma forge near the surface. 
I can try and just forge down by the magma sea since surface to magma sea is less for a 1 cavern max world. 

I am also testing first 7 dwarf labors:
My latest test batch are:
2 miners/mason/mech
2 axe/armor user
1 farmer/brewer/cook
1 carpenter/stone crafter
1 doctor/admin/wood cutter

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Randall172 on August 10, 2017, 01:18:57 pm
make a civ of small (20,000) unarmoured, fast breeding, quick learning, weapon wielding kobolds/monks/etc.

something that throws huge numbers of powerful but weak enemies.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Balgias on August 12, 2017, 03:07:23 am
404 download not found, why is the current version download down?
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Sanctume on August 12, 2017, 09:36:05 am
404 download not found, why is the current version download down?

Woah, I need this in my quest for challenge.

Edit.
The link in the OP is broken because dffd.wimbli.com is old?
It should use dffd.bay12games.com instead.

I was able to get it using the file number in the wimbli address and use it in the bay12games address.

So this one works:
Release v0.21 R (for versions 43.05 and 43.04)
Download Basic + Challenge Mode*Individual entity files included (http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=3081)
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Sanctume on August 20, 2017, 01:17:54 am
In a small region, 2-cavern max, 20 starting civ, for 150 year world-gen, I have 1 dying dwarf civ left. 

I opened a tavern for all early, and I have Honey Badger Bards, Greater Badger Berserker mercenaries. 

Nakash Dancers, Goblin Dancer soon followed. 

Then Frost Ettin Bard and Spearmans merc. 

So far so good.  I started getting Blood Cyclopse mercs, Greater Ogre mercs. 

Then Eldjotun Recruit joined, to my dismay, this guy breathes fire and end up killing my dwarf captain. 

I also have a War Elephant merc who went enraged while sparring with my dwarf captain who survived, but that was scarry.

Some 5 years later, those who petition started petitioning to be citizens. 

I feel it is kinda iffy to have Eldjotun and War Elephant recruits. 
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: YetAnotherLurker on November 03, 2017, 05:05:45 pm
I threw these together ages ago, but never really got around to posting them for some reason. War Elephants in the GemSet style. Assorted ranged-weapon spots are currently just a default armored elephant, because I couldn't really think of a good way to have them wield a bow, but better than nothing.

(https://image.prntscr.com/image/bfHpp7IpQ8WwRvK6CW6t5w.png)
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Demonbutter on November 12, 2017, 02:02:34 pm
Hello,
I'm trying to mod my DF using LNP, specifically with Fortress Defense II. Dwarf Fortress Hangs when I try to embark after setting up my embark.
The error log points to a problem at finalizing creatures. It has an issue with not recognizing tokens. Is this due to trying to mod the LNP DF or am I doing something absolutely wrong?
Title: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21 + War & Mythos
Post by: GM-X on November 16, 2017, 11:54:34 pm
Hello,
I'm trying to mod my DF using LNP, specifically with Fortress Defense II. Dwarf Fortress Hangs when I try to embark after setting up my embark.
The error log points to a problem at finalizing creatures. It has an issue with not recognizing tokens. Is this due to trying to mod the LNP DF or am I doing something absolutely wrong?

Darkflagrance mentioned there had been mysterious crashing as his last message. Errors with creatures = doom. Adding many civilizations into DF is harrowing work, in the best case scenario.



Wanted to mention here, that I'm testing out select parts of FDII in Dark Ages for the next release. It's turning out pretty sexy. Unfortunately, it looks like Darkflagrance has been gone a long while now as I planned to ask if he had any objections.

I'm using a fairly small % of FDII and blending it in. Turns out, a number of powerful monsters overlap between the mods already. If FDII players have suggestions, let me know so I can take them into consideration before the Dark Ages v37 release.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: ildabaoth on January 24, 2018, 08:58:52 pm
Hi guys,

My apologies if this has already been answered. I searched, but I didn't find anything. I have an issue with Dark stranglers. I've had a few waves of sieges by them. Nothing too hard with iron armor besides the ocasional punch in the head that destroys the upper spine. The problem is, their corpses are butchered and whereas their bones, skulls and leather can be used, there are other parts called dark strangler bronze (or dark strangler leg/arm bronze or so) which apparently can't be processed. I tried melting them and the dark strangler bronzes (apparently not the arm/legs, tho) are taken to the furnaces and it seems the operator melts them, but the outcome is dark strangler bronze again.

Is there something that can be done beyond atom smashing them? I could also entirely refuse to process the corpses, but the bones, skulls and leather are useful (trying to limit my farm animals to prevent DPS reduction).

Thanks.
Title: Re: [0.43.05] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Meph on May 06, 2018, 05:23:36 pm
Just wanted to let you know that this exists:

(https://i.imgur.com/2Vdfyug.png)

Vordak made a full set of 32x sprites for your invaders. :)

You can get it here: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=165118.msg7753886#msg7753886 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=165118.msg7753886#msg7753886)
Title: Re: [0.44.12+] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: darkflagrance on September 11, 2018, 10:51:17 pm
Turns out this mod is still compatible with the current version. Updated the version numbers accordingly.

Still, with all the hard mode changes, it will probably be a lot harder to survive without some mods to make dwarves out of sterner stuff. I also still need to remove everyone's teeth.

I'm not sure if Dwarf Fortress's dev path is hospitable to my personal preferences on what I want forts to do (personal relationships and stress breaking fort balance, progress triggers need to be reworked due to the living world update), and I also don't know if I can stay committed to personal projects instead of withdrawing into hermitic solitude again, but we'll see.

Time to get drunk again and forget all this.
Title: Re: [0.44.12+] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Demonbutter on October 22, 2018, 10:27:29 am
I wanted a little more strife in my mostly Vanilla games so I remembered this fun mod. It's hilariously unbalanced now with a squad of 10 dwarfs equipped with Steel get utterly destroyed by a single Bagerfolk or Nightwings. A bummer, I hope you do come back at some point to this personal project.

Title: Re: [0.44.12+] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: GM-X on October 22, 2018, 03:36:25 pm
I wanted a little more strife in my mostly Vanilla games so I remembered this fun mod. It's hilariously unbalanced now with a squad of 10 dwarfs equipped with Steel get utterly destroyed by a single Bagerfolk or Nightwings. A bummer, I hope you do come back at some point to this personal project.

I've made mods to FD:II running in DA:III, although only select monsters are included. If you try it, let me know if you encounter glaring unbalances.
Title: Re: [0.44.12+] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: HumanScholar on October 22, 2018, 06:06:35 pm
I've had my eye on this mod for ages. I had to stop using it when the stress update came out and hauling 100x teeth destroyed my forts. I would loooove for this to be brought up-to-date.

GM-X, for someone who isn't ready to move as far away from vanilla as DA:III, do you think the balanced FD creatures are easily extracted for stand-alone use? Maybe even just a couple of them?
Title: Re: [0.44.12+] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: GM-X on October 26, 2018, 05:06:57 am
I've had my eye on this mod for ages. I had to stop using it when the stress update came out and hauling 100x teeth destroyed my forts. I would loooove for this to be brought up-to-date.

GM-X, for someone who isn't ready to move as far away from vanilla as DA:III, do you think the balanced FD creatures are easily extracted for stand-alone use? Maybe even just a couple of them?

Depending on your embark location, Dark Ages can be almost 100% vanilla. Legendary Dwarves are resistant to stress, not sure to what extent it counters the stress issues.

I've been thinking more about DF mods that either add one race like Xeno's which you can avoid vs. near total conversion mods where 100% chance you get non-vanilla content. The scope of DF worlds and changes to sieges make striking a middle ground difficult. Having said that, I do think a minimal version of FD:II would work but you might need to get lucky to face war.

Did you have many sieges playing vanilla 44.12?
Title: Re: [0.44.12+] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: HumanScholar on October 30, 2018, 02:30:59 am
Did you have many sieges playing vanilla 44.12?


I got a moderate number. It helped to use the Legends Viewer to check that there were sufficient goblin pops who weren't too busy fighting any other civs.

I almost certainly will try DA:III, too, eventually -- I just like the idea of vanilla DF with a little variety in combat.
Title: Re: [0.44.12+] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: chaosfiend on November 06, 2018, 05:59:06 pm
Does anyone know how to change the Alignment of the various Fortress defense Races? Was hoping to use them with Boltgun's Succubi, but many of them seem to start off Allies of Succubi. While I am fine with some of there, others I am not as much.
Title: Re: [0.44.12+] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: UselessMcMiner on June 26, 2019, 04:50:03 pm
So is this mod dead? Will it ever be updated again?
Title: Re: [0.44.12+] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: gazaren on July 10, 2019, 11:46:47 am
So is this mod dead? Will it ever be updated again?

The mod works fine in the latest version (44.12).
Title: Re: [0.44.12+] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Alyfox on October 27, 2019, 05:08:33 pm
This will perhaps come across as a dumb question, but can badgermen teleport or quantum-tunnel?

I had a situation (I will include a screenshot) where there was a greater badgerman siege going on. I had my gates up, but realizing that creatures *can* climb walls, I had packs of wardogs in my courtyard and traps at the entrance of my underground base as first defence/alarms.

Suddenly, I was getting combat notifications. There were 2 greater badgermen *in my barracks* killing my militia. Yet, the wardogs were all still in their place, there were no dead wardogs, and the cage traps were still active - I checked, greater badgermen are NOT trap avoid. Further, there is only the one way in and out of my underground area. I double and triple checked this numerous times. There is no way they could have gotten in without disturbing either the wardogs or the traps. Some of you may note that there is a set of stairs outside in the courtyard. Yep, it leads up to a secondary level on a hill. But that area is *also* closed in with walls AND has a 9 or 10 more wardogs guarding it as well - again, they are still in place and none of them are dead.

It capped off a rather frustrating in-game 15 months, and I just abandoned it to the siege with intent to go back with a new group of dwarves. Not happy though.

(https://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r570/AlyFox/teleporting%20badgermen_zps1tgifahf.png) (https://s1172.photobucket.com/user/AlyFox/media/teleporting%20badgermen_zps1tgifahf.png.html)
Title: Re: [0.44.12+] Fortress Defense Mod II R v21: Progress Trigger and Bug Fixes!
Post by: Urist McShire on June 18, 2022, 12:59:15 am
0.47.05, the mod doesn't seem to be working. I cannot generate a world successfully with any of the added entities.