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[MorleyDev]

So I'm kinda tired of a specific thing in a lot of games that have moral choices: The lack of an ability to scheme. Take every bioware game ever. The choices are always to help or to hurt, to be good or bad (or to ignore and gain nothing). Now, don't get me wrong: Being a psychotic maniac is fun. I do love me some psychotic mania sometimes.

But sometimes I don't. Sometimes, I want to be more subtle but not a hero. Less Darth Malak, more Palpatine. Obsidian Games are good at this. If you're clever in Fallout: New Vegas, you can betray just about everyone and come out on top. Alpha Protocol too.

So does anybody know of more games that allow that? You know, let you actually be scheming, manipulative and subtle and play people off onto other people for your own advantage?

[Girlinhat]

I have nothing to contribute.  But I do have this picture.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Mickey Blue]

I cannot think of any game off the top of my head that involves a great deal of scheming as you describe.. That said the first Knights of the Old Republic had a few questlines that you could manipulate the enemy (or your allies.. Or both..) rather than take a side directly.  The one that comes to mind is when you go undercover as a Sith and you can choose to side with one group or another looking to take power or play them against one another.

The Baldur's Gate series also had a few quests that involved some degree of scheming (or could).

Some of your strategy games can (Civilization, Europa Universalis, etc) where you could manipulate other nations to go to war with one another to benefit yourself.  Not sure if that's what you're looking for exactly.

[nenjin]

What's your required format?

Because you're describing 3rd/1st person RPGs....and what I can offer you is nothing like that.

Solium Infernum.

It's a turn-based strategy game where you play a Duke of Hell, trying to outwit/dethrone the rest of Hell's nobility.

A good 50% of the game is scheming. Either through military action or political decrees and other stuff, you screw over the other Dukes or try to snare them in binding agreements, make them lose face, things of that nature.

The game has kind of a basic look and in some ways it's not very gamey. Imagine kind of a 4x presentation without the fancy graphics and map detail and, well, stuff you'd normally expect to see. But there are some epic tales of MP games somewhere on the Internet that will really show how much the game is built around scheming, especially when there are more than 1 human players.

Oooo and it's only $25 now. I may have to finally pick it up.

[612DwarfAvenue]

How about Spacestation 13?

Just be sure to do it in a server where RP's important, like Baystation12, otherwise it'll probably backfire.

[Scelly9]

How about Spacestation 13?

Just be sure to do it in a server where RP's important, like Baystation12, otherwise it'll probably backfire.

This. That game is funnest when you do stuff you would never do in a game you wanted to "win"

[Itnetlolor]

How about Spacestation 13?

Just be sure to do it in a server where RP's important, like Baystation12, otherwise it'll probably backfire.

This. That game is funnest when you do stuff you would never do in a game you wanted to "win"

Which reminds me, that game was pretty fun to play. I gotta get back on sometime. I mean, the insane crap that happens half the time... Definitely worth taking the time to learn.

[ChairmanPoo]

Take every bioware game ever.

Now, normally Planescape Torment would be such an obvious choice that I'd not bother in pointing it out. But this statement makes me think you're not aware of the existence of that game. Therefore...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planescape:_Torment

(Remember, once upon a time Bioware was good!

[Muz]

Just about any competitive multiplayer game. Multiplayer games suck at gameplay generally, but often the simpler ones have far more advanced inter-personal stuff.

I have nothing to contribute.  But I do have this picture.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

http://www.e621.net/data/81/7e/817e3c8ab1e26d4e46b1c1089b0498b1.jpg?1297163234

Why not link direct to the source?

[fenrif]

Take every bioware game ever.

Now, normally Planescape Torment would be such an obvious choice that I'd not bother in pointing it out. But this statement makes me think you're not aware of the existence of that game. Therefore...

(Remember, once upon a time Bioware was good!

I think you're misremembering something there...

(Remember once upon a time Bioware didn't make that game)

For scheming, you might also try The Witcher 2. Only just started playing it this week, but it seems like you can get upto some mischeif.

[Zangi]

The Guild 1 and Guild 2

You can sabotage your competitors... many many ways...

[Lord Dullard]

How has nobody mentioned Crusader Kings 2 (or 1, but 2 is the superior game) yet?

The whole game is one giant attempt at scheming other people into submission.

[ChairmanPoo]

Take every bioware game ever.

Now, normally Planescape Torment would be such an obvious choice that I'd not bother in pointing it out. But this statement makes me think you're not aware of the existence of that game. Therefore...

(Remember, once upon a time Bioware was good!

I think you're misremembering something there...

(Remember once upon a time Bioware didn't make that game)

I thought Chris Avellone worked for Bioware too. Seems not.

Anyhow, I kind of have sympathies for Bioware because the founders are doctors. The sleazy tactics described in the "The Old Republic" thread are indefensible, though :/

And yes, the silly morals bit is annoying, but I had the impression that had been forced upon them by LucasArts. I've never been able to shake the feeling that the canonical ending for KOTOR 1 was supposed to be the dark side one (you get far better dialoge lines, for one.)

Anyways, as far as I'm concerned I dislike the MMORPG concept at it's core because of the pay-per-play mechanic (which is a buzz-killer for me, not because of the cash itself, but because I like to switch games frequently, and it'd feel like a waste to play anything else than the one that I'd be paying monthly quotas for).

However, with old school MMORPGs (of which there are still some around) at least I could see the point. Open-ended, do what you want, etc...

But with this streak of WoW clones that we're getting lately? Come on, for what I've heard WoW's gameplay is pretty much Diablo with fancier graphics and a higher player limit. I don't see the point in that kind of game. Multiplayer is not enough to motivate me for that.

[lordcooper]

The Guild 1 and Guild 2

You can sabotage your competitors... many many ways...

Definitely a great option for scheming.  Is that other blacksmith stealing your customers?  Ambush and kill him, burn his home and workplace down, frame him for a crime, kidnap him, have him tortured or imprisoned, the possibilities are almost endless.

[Zangi]

The Guild 1 and Guild 2

You can sabotage your competitors... many many ways...

Definitely a great option for scheming.  Is that other blacksmith stealing your customers?  Ambush and kill him, burn his home and workplace down, frame him for a crime, kidnap him, have him tortured or imprisoned, the possibilities are almost endless.

I must say though, Guild 2 is not as great in the fact that you can directly attack and kill characters... which the AI loves to do.  Not so much scheming, but blatant kill em all with your thugs... which can make for some short games in single player...