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Dwarf Fortress => DF General Discussion => Topic started by: Magmacube_tr on July 30, 2021, 04:25:09 pm

Title: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Magmacube_tr on July 30, 2021, 04:25:09 pm
I ask to you all a single question. What annoys you the most in Dwarf Fortress. It may be a mechanic, an issue, a flaw you percieve. Anything.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Magmacube_tr on July 30, 2021, 04:27:36 pm
For me, its the UI. Its a... lets say quite a mess. I have been trying to learn how to play this game for a while now, emphasis on trying.

I simply can't. I can't figure it out.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Moeteru on July 30, 2021, 05:40:07 pm
All the bugs.
The ones that have stopped me from playing most recently have been problems with invader pathfinding and invisible wagons getting stuck at the map edge, but there are lots of other issues too. It feels like at least half the skill of playing DF is a matter of knowing about various bugs and how to either work around them or use them to your advantage.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: PlumpHelmetMan on July 30, 2021, 08:42:17 pm
For me, its the UI. Its a... lets say quite a mess. I have been trying to learn how to play this game for a while now, emphasis on trying.

I simply can't. I can't figure it out.

Have you tried using DFHack? I've heard it makes a number of aspects of the UI and gameplay a great deal easier. If it's the ASCII you're having trouble with then I'd recommend experimenting with some tilesets.

No argument though that the UI in the base game could use improvement (I don't find it absolutely unworkable personally but it can certainly slow things down quite a bit), luckily Toady seems to be working on that with the Steam updates we've seen.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: PlumpHelmetMan on July 30, 2021, 08:50:01 pm
EDIT: Accidental double post, please ignore.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Thisfox on July 30, 2021, 09:12:55 pm
I love the UI. I'm living in (unjustified) fear of them changing it to cute little sprites and pictures you are forced to point and click to. I know I'm weird in that. But I love the whole damn interface. Except the trade windows. Those ARE annoying.
There are plenty of point and click games in the world, though.

What annoys me, though, is the moments where a whole decade old fort suddenly falls. It's always a stupid straw-on-the-camels-back reason, such as because someone left their glove in a doorway or a human stole an artifact wooden earring no one wanted in the first place, or an inaccessible grave. It is so irritating when it all tumbles down, and I love it, all at the same time....
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: PlumpHelmetMan on July 30, 2021, 09:15:34 pm
I love the UI. I'm living in (unjustified) fear of them changing it to cute little sprites and pictures you are forced to point and click to. I know I'm weird in that. But I love the whole damn interface. Except the trade windows. Those ARE annoying.
There are plenty of point and click games in the world, though.

No worries about that, ASCII mode isn't going anywhere per word of the Toad himself (it'll just be an optional feature so people who don't like it won't have to go through the trouble of installing a bunch of graphics packs, but Toady has no plans to alienate ASCII fans anytime soon). Keyboard commands will most likely stay as well.

I also prefer ASCII and keyboard commands myself, but I know they're not everyone's thing.

Also guess I should vent my own complaints if I insist on commenting in this thread. Mysterious crashes have been extremely frustrating for me lately, especially since the game lacks an autosave feature. I can spend two straight hours on a magnificent fort or an epic adventure...and then have every trace of it erased in a fraction of a second.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Secretdorf on July 30, 2021, 10:34:57 pm
What annoys me the most is my lack of adventure mode proficiency or that dumb dwarves will not haul things but rather stand idle with no job and sometimes when I want them to do something else, they are hauling. But I'd say that playing with keyboard gives such good fun, I love it, but somethings, I still haven't figured out. Magmacube you should try basic guide on df wiki thats how I started playing but you have probably already tried that.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: George_Chickens on July 30, 2021, 11:06:45 pm
AI hostility bugs in adventure mode. Sometimes, I just gen worlds where nobody is hostile to me, not even after chopping off their leader's head in front of them.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Rekov on July 30, 2021, 11:56:48 pm
This is probably an odd answer, but the thing that annoys me most of all while playing DF is the designate priority thing. If you ever accidentally hit the button to turn it on, it's stuck on until you clear all of your designations. You have flashing numbers over all of your designations, and I get a headache after about 20 seconds of it.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: DwarfStar on July 31, 2021, 12:15:24 am
The things that annoy me the most are, paradoxically, the things I love the most about the game. That is, all the unfinished edges. It annoys the heck out of me, for example, that the off-site mission options are so limited. But, I also know that someday, it will get better. It’s that vast ocean of incomplete features, and the promise that they will all eventually be filled in, that keeps me fascinated with this game.

If I had to pick one UI element that gets in my way the most during gameplay, I’d have to finger the military equipment system. Burn it with fire.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: PlumpHelmetMan on July 31, 2021, 12:36:18 am
The things that annoy me the most are, paradoxically, the things I love the most about the game. That is, all the unfinished edges. It annoys the heck out of me, for example, that the off-site mission options are so limited. But, I also know that someday, it will get better. It’s that vast ocean of incomplete features, and the promise that they will all eventually be filled in, that keeps me fascinated with this game.

So much this! The fact that so many incredible breakthroughs in DF development are just on the horizon (Steam release, adventure mode villains and military improvements, myth and magic goes without saying) just makes waiting for more features that much more tantalizing and that much more frustrating, like a treat on the top shelf that's always just out of your reach.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Magmacube_tr on July 31, 2021, 04:00:53 am
What annoys me, though, is the moments where a whole decade old fort suddenly falls. It's always a stupid straw-on-the-camels-back reason, such as because someone left their glove in a doorway or a human stole an artifact wooden earring no one wanted in the first place, or an inaccessible grave. It is so irritating when it all tumbles down, and I love it, all at the same time....

Murphy Law. If something will go wrong, anything can happen. This law should be much mire powerful in a game like DF than in real life.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: brewer bob on July 31, 2021, 05:44:39 am
I guess it'd be dwarves deciding that now is the time to fetch new clothes just after finishing construction work, throwing their socks onto the spot where a wall is being built and the construction getting suspended because of "item blocking site".
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Moeteru on July 31, 2021, 09:11:57 am
especially since the game lacks an autosave feature
I have some good news for you. There is actually an autosave feature. Look near the top of "data/init/d_init.txt" in your df folder.
These are the settings I use:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: PlumpHelmetMan on July 31, 2021, 03:28:47 pm
Oh awesome, how didn't I know about that? Wish it was more obvious but still, thanks a whole lot!
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Magistrum on July 31, 2021, 05:43:21 pm
For me it's FPS death[...]
Same here, my PC is already trash, the way the game slogs at 300~400 dwarves is simply unbearable, yet I still do it. Must have complete set of 24 squads and all industries, or embark not completed.
Honestly half the bugs are already features in themselves and part of the mechanics. Let's all pray The Great One keeps on his work eternal.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: TheBeardyMan on August 04, 2021, 09:48:19 am
What annoys me the most? That'd have to be the "two rules of burrows":
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: qualiyah on August 11, 2021, 02:04:08 pm
I think the issues with burrows might also be what annoys me most. Burrows sound in theory so promising for so many purposes, and they're really necessary for dealing with danger. But the way they work isn't ideal, plus there are odd bugs, like when dwarves start spamming 100 job cancellations per second because they want to pick something up that's currently located outside the burrow, or because they happen to be carrying a book.

The other main candidate is military issues. It's a huge hassle getting archers to actually practice, and then there's no way to get them to actually function as archers without locking them in a room with no possible way they can reach the enemy. There's no way to tell soldiers to stand their ground even after seeing an enemy. When you station a squad somewhere, then change your mind and station them somewhere else, they'll still insist on finishing their trek to the first place (which you decided not to have them go to for a reason!!) before heading to the new location. I just hate losing soldiers to stupid crap like that.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Bumber on August 11, 2021, 03:14:21 pm
Other than FPS death, bin/container issues. Edit: Tasked items in general, really. Workshop completes a mechanism or furniture, but you've got to wait (or pause, forbid, unforbid) because your fort has stockpiles.

The game should differentiate between items tasked for use and those simply tasked to be hauled.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Talvieno on August 11, 2021, 11:29:02 pm
FPS death for me. After that, the trade window. After that, loading minecart shotguns is a dreadfully tedious affair.

Alternative third: There's a bug that's been in the game since syndromes were introduced that if any syndrome effect has less than a 100% chance of occurring, and the syndrome is still active when you save/load the game, it immediately increases that effect to 100% upon load.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: TheBeardyMan on August 12, 2021, 07:02:19 am
Tasked items in general, really. Workshop completes a mechanism or furniture, but you've got to wait (or pause, forbid, unforbid) because your fort has stockpiles.
Yes, furniture stockpiles nearly always lead to the "furniture double consumption" problem. Build one bed and two beds are tasked - the one you chose to build and the one to be hauled from the workshop to the space that the one you chose left in the stockpile.
The game should differentiate between items tasked for use and those simply tasked to be hauled.
Ideally, non-hauling jobs should be allowed to steal items from hauling jobs without restriction - one "Urist McHauler cancels store item in stockpile - job item misplaced" is better than a hundred "Urist McCarpenter cancels construct bed - needs logs".
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: ldog on August 19, 2021, 04:19:38 pm
Old bugs that don't get fixed.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Splint on August 24, 2021, 01:32:11 am
Teeth and digits being knocked out/torn off in combat. It creates the kind of mess that can be a bitch to clean up cause they can end up in all kinds of weird places (up in trees, in fortifications, in rivers...) and any corpse bit that belongs to a sentient runs the risk of causing problems either with your dwarves or with (primarily) traders, who might freak out at the sight of some elf's severed toe and scuttle their wagon for some mystical reason.

And using blunt-weapon militias doesn't help, since they seem to always be determined to make up for the lack of severed limbs, toes, heads, and fingers by systematically knocking the teeth out of every other enemy before killing them in my games.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: klefenz on August 26, 2021, 06:50:44 pm
It isn't a Dwarven Fortress (tm) unless it is sprinkled with severed body parts.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: anewaname on September 03, 2021, 10:26:09 pm
The game should differentiate between items tasked for use and those simply tasked to be hauled.
Ideally, non-hauling jobs should be allowed to steal items from hauling jobs without restriction - one "Urist McHauler cancels store item in stockpile - job item misplaced" is better than a hundred "Urist McCarpenter cancels construct bed - needs logs".
At first glance, I was thinking this sounds like a good solution, but what sort of FPS overhead would it add? You would have jobs that searched for a valid non-TSK'd item, didn't find one, then searched the TSK'd item lists for items that are TSK'd by "hauling" jobs. Also, it does not take into account that the cancelled "hauling" job might have been bringing the item from a long distance away (now your carpenter is walking far to get the log, or worse, your mason is walking far to carry some granite back without a wheelbarrow).

Rather than cancel a hauling job so the item can be TSK'd for a construction job, what about having the construction job recognize that "no valid items are available but I see one that is currently TSK'd"? So the job would generate a "this job is waiting for that hauled item" announcement and then the construction/craft job pauses until that item is available or some short time span expires. I think this is a lot of work to handle those "job cancelled because no item" announcements, because really the player;s planning is to blame, but having a job "wait" for another job seems better than having a job "cancel" another job.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Laterigrade on September 04, 2021, 02:07:15 am
For me it's FPS death, my first time playing DF I tought this game couldn't be that taxing, I read that the game could be taxing, but I tought it was only if it was pushed to it's limits, I was so enamored with my vision of what this game could be, a game that doesn't cut corners and can simulate toughts with infinite worlds to explore just seemed like a dream, so I picked a large world with a large 5x5 embark and didn't even touch the init settings except setting the fps limiter to 0. I soon found out about FPS death and stress mechanics.

It isn't exactly a flaw that just how things are with videogames, any game will push your computer to it's limits if you push it, like spawning too much stuff on minecraft or wanting to place every tankyard in Oblivion in a single place, I didn't know what I was thinking would happen, it's just that most games try to stop you from reaching that boundary, DF didn't do that.
Yes, FPS death is the single worst thing about DF. For most games you have to really try, to get FPS at which the game is completely unplayable, but for worse desktops or laptops all it takes is a little breeding program or a decent-sized invasion to bring it to its knees, once you have 100 or so dwarves.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Bumber on September 06, 2021, 10:03:52 pm
At first glance, I was thinking this sounds like a good solution, but what sort of FPS overhead would it add? You would have jobs that searched for a valid non-TSK'd item, didn't find one, then searched the TSK'd item lists for items that are TSK'd by "hauling" jobs.

It's probably not that significant. DF keeps a bunch of lists to narrow results down already.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Schmaven on September 09, 2021, 06:35:12 pm
Not being able to dock the DF window to the upper left corner of my screen, but having to use the mouse to drag it there is annoying.  It's easy to go too far and not far enough.  I play with 2 monitors, so I expand the view such that 1 monitor is the whole game world, with just the menu interface / mini-map spilling over to the right monitor.  Setting the window size is nice, but it always launches with it way too far down, not lined up with anything.  A fairly minor annoyance, yes, but it gets me every single time.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Starver on September 09, 2021, 07:45:12 pm
What annoys me the most? That'd have to be the "two rules of burrows":
  • No, you haven't found a neat way to use burrows to solve that hauling problem.
  • If you think you've found an exception to rule 1, burrows don't work that way.

Ah, good, you remind me of my 'big want' (being largely unbothered by all the UI/UX/FPS/etc complaints[1]), which is burrow-based.

Boolean recombination/set identity being possible to integrate defined subordinate burrows as part/the whole of further burrows....
If one could define (say) a sleeping burrow, once then AND/Union it into each job-based burrow, then it doesn't need editing again in each of those as you add/change bedroom layouts, just repaint the sleeping one.

Also painting the Caverns (as discovered) could be AND NOTted (Intersected only as its Complement) into further burrows like the safe-internal overall one (itself maybe derived from a composite) to re-exclude a gradually discovered area without so much fuss.

Just plain NOT/Compliment might be easier (even without the use in further ways) than burrowing corner-to-corner (X+Y+Z) and then unpainting the small bit to exclude from otherwise liberal policies on job locating.

There are various easy ways to disallow circular-dependencies, such as never allowing a child-burrow to be added that is already a known parent one/vice-versa. Or, perhaps with its own uses, quietly stop propagating (non-)membership just before any circularity produces paradoxical results. ;)

I've mentioned it several times, but not seen any sign of it being featured in. Maybe it'll get a Steam/non-Steam-version-of-Steam reveal, but until then I'm resigned to just doing it all myself, as now.

Truly, the lack of this is the closest thing to annoying I can think of (that isn't just a natural result of gameplay difficulty).


[1] But I didn't want to post just to say this, and someone else beat me to the "There is an Autosave" reply I might have made.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Devast on September 11, 2021, 06:57:35 pm
The fact I can't make a giant 10x10 fortress with 500 dwarfs and get more than 0.001fps
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Thisfox on September 16, 2021, 09:27:22 pm
I'm changing my answer.

It's massively frustrating to watch the dorfs dig out a huge rectangle of galena, and present me with just two mined galena ore. (Even more so when it's limonite). Meanwhile, every gemstone they dig through gets carried over to the gemstone stockpile to lie in glittering patterns on the floor. It's a small thing, but I really do wish that if they dug through one ore in their cavern wall, it would always return one ore for my smelter. Or more, for that matter. But not sodding less than one, dammit!
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Starver on September 17, 2021, 03:11:44 am
One ore (25% chance? 33%?) gives four bars, though, as do stone->block production. When one ore gave one bar (a few versions ago) the determinator for (non-gem?) digging-out was highly tied to miner skill (now only used to dictate speed of mining) so you could end up with net loss of processed material far greater than the current average.

Not saying it's better now (I remember deliberately training up on the commoner 'junk layer' stone layers whilst holding back on 'prime' extraction material as much as possible in the early days of an embark with less-than-Legendary miners) and the RNG probably can punish you badly (or reward you mightily... but inconveniently if it was just a clearance operation that you're not wanting and intend to just dump-clear the spoil).

So it's a balance, and a different balance. Perhaps a memoised-chance-adjustment[1] would have helped flatten the RNG-blues(/elation). But you could still find yourself with extreme malus/bonus results. Unless it was de-chanced and boringly 1:1(:1), without any variation at all.

(Also, previously suggested, potentially tagging mining as "mine with care", for slower but more certain extraction, and/or "mine to a pulp", for slower but more certain non-extraction. I remember these suggested before the Priority and Mark-Only thing went in, so it might well go in there rather than as a special-designation extension letter or Traffic/Zone-type designator as the original suggestion probably was.)


I feel your pain, but it should average out if only you stop tearing up four-leaf clovers while stomping on broken mirrors underneath a ladder that a black cat has just fallen from.  :P


[1] Perhaps something that remembered the prior results to arbitrary depth and weighted (by log N?) the chance that the distribution of the last N results (against the intended proportions) be used to directly dictate success/failure. So you don't get a regular and predictable "every fourth tile" but you do more quickly (and certainly) head towards the designed in ideal. *Warning*: Memory hog if you apply this tally to each individual subtype instead of/in parallel to a combined (shared) success-log component.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Quietust on September 17, 2021, 09:54:01 am
One ore (25% chance? 33%?) gives four bars, though, as do stone->block production. When one ore gave one bar (a few versions ago) the determinator for (non-gem?) digging-out was highly tied to miner skill (now only used to dictate speed of mining) so you could end up with net loss of processed material far greater than the current average.
It's actually changed multiple times over the game's history - in the old 2D versions, everything (including raw adamantine) started at 25% yield and increased according to miner skill with different caps based on what was being mined (100% for metal ores, 62.5% for gems and coal, and 43.75% for stone), and in the later versions everything had a 100% cap (and raw adamantine always had a 100% yield regardless of skill level). In the current version, small clusters and individual tiles have a 100% drop rate and everything else is a flat 25%.

[1] Perhaps something that remembered the prior results to arbitrary depth and weighted (by log N?) the chance that the distribution of the last N results (against the intended proportions) be used to directly dictate success/failure. So you don't get a regular and predictable "every fourth tile" but you do more quickly (and certainly) head towards the designed in ideal. *Warning*: Memory hog if you apply this tally to each individual subtype instead of/in parallel to a combined (shared) success-log component.
The simplest method would be to just track that information within each "mineral inclusion" record, of which there is typically one per vein/cluster per 16x16x1 map region - they already keep track of the inclusion type (so that small clusters can give a 100% drop rate), so adding a pair of "successful mines"+"failed mines" variables would be easy and wouldn't increase memory usage in any significant way.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Starver on September 17, 2021, 11:23:52 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Cheers for the overview. I know it had changed in parts since 38whatever, 40d and onwards, but I thought it might take too long for me to peruse all the changelogs, announcements and/or wiki-namespaces. But you, as always, actually have the encyclopedic lowdown. Or certainly close enough to brook no arguments from me. ;)



Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: A_Curious_Cat on September 23, 2021, 07:39:40 pm
Not sure if this is what you are looking for, but I embarked in a good biome one time and set up a gathering zone under a bunch of feather trees.  According to the wiki, it should have taken a lot longer for cave adaptation to kick in, but here were my dwarfs puking their guts out as the collected the feather tree eggs!
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: rico6822 on October 04, 2021, 03:19:18 am
Invading a dark fortress alone as overpowered adventurer only to get lagged because beak dogs and trolls seem to never sleep. I literally had to mod the game to remove beak dogs and trolls from dark fortresses and power up goblins to balance the challenge.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Fikilili on October 05, 2021, 10:48:53 am
Glad you asked!

1. Lag, granted, it's not the game's fault. I'm not a programming genius (because I don't know anything about it), but I know for sure it's the game's fault 100.
2. Anything that spits webs. I know its supposed to be annoying, but it isn't really funny to see my militia dying of starvation because of a giant jumping spider that is spitting webs in their general direction.
3. The big wait. I don't feel too affected by this, because I'm waiting for things that have little to no hope of coming out; like a Season 2 of Dark Crystal
4. The early game. It's always a chore to me, because you have to make sure every dwarf is well fed, dressed, quenched and housed somewhere in your new fort. Perhaps I'm just impatient to get to my little projects?
5. Elves, but that's a given.
6. My militia inexplicably beating the fuck out of anyone they meet while going to attend their duty. I dunno what happened, but I lost a whole fort because of this. Seriously! They were supposed to kill a bunch of fire imps!
7. The very lackluster physical descriptions. I don't really wish to know how long is my dwarf's schlong, but I think we could use more descriptions regarding their appearance.
8. How the game tells its stories in Legends mode. It's very much the opposite of ergonomy. I don't expect Shakespearian writing, but something a bit more... Erm... Well, you know...
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: PlumpHelmetMan on October 05, 2021, 03:48:57 pm
On the topic of physical descriptors, it bugs me how often a description is generated that (for me at least) is really hard to visualize, like a dwarf with a head that's both extremely short and extremely narrow.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Starver on October 05, 2021, 04:16:57 pm
On the topic of physical descriptors, it bugs me how often a description is generated that (for me at least) is really hard to visualize, like a dwarf with a head that's both extremely short and extremely narrow.
Spoiler: This? (click to show/hide)


(It's the "three-legged quadruped" stuff that is hard to reconcile.)
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: PlumpHelmetMan on October 05, 2021, 04:25:00 pm
I mean maybe my visual imagination just isn't the best, but yeah "three-legged quadrupeds" are pretty maddening (though I thought they were fixed).
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Starver on October 05, 2021, 04:35:25 pm
Possibly. I'd never even had them (or noticed them, not being so asiduous as to examine every detail like that) so I haven't particularly noticed anything of their later absence/non-generation either. But that (or four-legged biped, or somesuch) is what others reported.

(TBH, I'd have assumed a four-with-three to be an amputee or developmentary-misformed in the limb department example of what-should-have-had-four turning up with just the three. If it's a two-with-four then you're into conjoinedness territory, usually. Though making such RL assumptions might be just a little over analytical to support an 'observation'.)
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: PlumpHelmetMan on October 05, 2021, 06:49:23 pm
Also whenever I try to imagine the "great swinging lobes" descriptor for ears, it's not that I can't visualize it but it always ends up looking extremely cartoony in my head. Again, probably just the limitations of my own imagination more than anything else.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Thisfox on October 06, 2021, 04:04:15 am
I mean maybe my visual imagination just isn't the best, but yeah "three-legged quadrupeds" are pretty maddening (though I thought they were fixed).
I had a cat who was a three-legged quadruped. She had an argument with a car and lost, but she was fine after the surgery. Got around on three paws very well. She was great at takeoffs, terrible at landings (It was a forepaw). She was not allowed outside again, of course. But yes, I know that's not what you mean.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Magmacube_tr on October 09, 2021, 01:44:53 am
I mean maybe my visual imagination just isn't the best, but yeah "three-legged quadrupeds" are pretty maddening (though I thought they were fixed).

Think about it like this.

The creature has three limbs initially, but then the third limb splits into two halfway. In a pair of hyper-thropied digits kind of way.

(https://imgur.com/fVN35F1.png)

''Urist McForgottenBeast is a Forgotten Beast. A three-legged quadruped made of steel. It is moving deliberately. Beware its venomous bite!
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Starver on October 09, 2021, 03:19:36 am
Or else as per pinnipeds.

(Like I didn't say before: -ped relates to feet, leg relates to supportive[1] limbs, so you could argue centaurs as six-limbed (but four-legged) quadruped... So long as you group hooves as feet, which might depend upon how much you're a lumper or splitter (https://xkcd.com/2518/) at such a technical level.


[1] You may argue over sloths, now, whose limbs are adapted to be suspensive for so much of their life; thus four-armed (or some other classification) even beyond the most brachiating of omnigrasping primates.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: hanni79 on December 29, 2021, 09:34:24 am
Cooking and how food preferences are handled.

1. Cooking
It is possible in theory to make dorfs actually use 4 different ingredients, but it needs rather extreme measures to guarantee this. 30% of my dorfs are hauling food all the time.

2. Excessively specific food preferences without any chance to satisfy them properly.
Or do you have were-orca-liver-gills lying around? Well, good for you!

I really wish we could have a noble profession like "chef", who oversees kitchens and gives you the ability to specify exactly what is getting cooked or letting you specify meals in a meaningful way, like "1. ingredient: liver; 2. ingredient: any crocodile eggs; 3. ingredient Giant Alpaca fat 4. ingredient: any alcohol".

I really love the thought of my dorfs eating only the very best stuff.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Uthimienure on January 08, 2022, 07:35:50 pm
The list of artifacts is not searchable or sortable, and grows too long because named weapons included.

Beds don't show if they are assigned or free unless you query them individually.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: SQman on January 09, 2022, 11:58:13 am
Maksdwarves climbing over fortifications. I know that you can build fortifications in a way that prevents climbing, but that should not be necessary.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Orange-of-Cthulhu on January 09, 2022, 06:48:48 pm
That goblins build these annoting ditches around their towers. Making it to the tower is harder than killing the goblins when you finally get there!
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: BoogieMan on February 19, 2022, 11:59:30 am
FPS loss. Feeling pressured to build around minimizing performance loss instead of being more individualistic.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Starver on February 19, 2022, 12:34:28 pm
Not to disregard your own feelings about this, but you really don't notice decreasing FPS when you spend most of your time with the game effectively paused whilst micromanaging stuff... ;)

(Not sure I ever did anything to mitigate the issue. In fact, my default archetecture probably causes significant routing slowdown, from what I've heard from those that notice these things...)
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: victor11 on March 02, 2022, 11:08:06 pm
The most annoying thing is the issues with Burrows. No matter what you do, you won't find a neat way to use burrows to solve that hauling problem.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Shazial on March 11, 2022, 01:23:28 am
To many it's probably just a minor thing, but when you want to build individual bedrooms to your hundreds of little Urists, bags and chests being in the same build category is quite frustrating. To me, it doesn't even really make sense when it comes to over all mechanics of the game, since the chests are only used in something if they are built first, and the bags are one of the most used commodities2, going around the fortress in multiple industries. Okay, both are containers, but cages and cabinets are also containers and have their own designations.

Okay it's probably not my biggest annoyance, but it's something that I keep running into quite frequently and feels like it could be more intuitive. It's annoying trying to find my few handfuls of masterful chests in the ocean of bags. It'd be neat if it had a split path, kind of like Meeting area ones, e.g. b-h-c for chests, and b-h-b for bags.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Magmacube_tr on March 13, 2022, 08:12:57 am
Okay it's probably not my biggest annoyance, but it's something that I keep running into quite frequently and feels like it could be more intuitive. It's annoying trying to find my few handfuls of masterful chests in the ocean of bags. It'd be neat if it had a split path, kind of like Meeting area ones, e.g. b-h-c for chests, and b-h-b for bags.

Fully agreed. Can't count the number of times where I had furbished 10 or so rooms with sand bags.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Neckbeard on April 01, 2022, 08:52:10 pm
The same thing that annoys me in any game with workflows...

Logistics.

Granted, Dwarf Fortress is one of the better games at handling logistics, but it's still super annoying.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Timeless Bob on April 30, 2022, 09:47:15 am
On slabs, when a dwarf has died from NOT completing an artifact, it still says "creator of <Artifact>".  WTH?  They died from going berzerk or depression because it DIDNT happen! Why lie?  Easy enough to just leave that off the slab altogether.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Laterigrade on August 21, 2022, 06:19:22 pm
Maksdwarves climbing over fortifications. I know that you can build fortifications in a way that prevents climbing, but that should not be necessary.
I stay away from marksdwarves for that reason.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Nordlicht on August 23, 2022, 05:01:21 am
Giving up the creative freedom and development speed of pure ascii. But maybe i'll be wrong with that. We'll see.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: Starver on August 23, 2022, 05:35:39 am
...well, fake ASCII(ish), in the default circumstance.


Based on that, what annoys me most (apartbfrom anything else legitimate that I may have previously mentioned) is that it apparently needs to be upgraded this way. Why can't it both have a mass-appeal and be a niche product?

...but the reasoning behind the current aims and the path it leads us down isn't much to do with the core game.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: rico6822 on September 07, 2022, 08:41:32 am
No fast travel in underworld despite terrain potentially having similair traversity difficulties to surface world. Basically underworld exploration takes so long. Openess 100 and 0 density caverns do not enable fast travel.

At least fast travel could be restricted to not occur between caverns due to different depths between 1 and 3.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: TheYeIIowDucK on September 12, 2022, 05:24:52 pm
As someone who enjoys the storytelling aspect of the game, especially in Adventure Mode, I have a few things:

Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 13, 2022, 12:48:30 am
Stealthed units (notably many necromancer minions) being completely undetectable and therefore invincible to the player in Adventure Mode.

It's been an outstanding bug for over two years and kind of seems like it would be important to fix for the Steam release.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: brewer bob on September 20, 2022, 06:42:19 am
Stealthed units (notably many necromancer minions) being completely undetectable and therefore invincible to the player in Adventure Mode.

I've been lucky and avoided this one, but then again I mostly play fort mode.

Which reminded me that it's annoying to switch between fort and adventure mode with all the issues retiring/unretiring causes. The biggest being: overflowing magma tubes & volcanoes (essentially making volcano forts unplayable if you plan to retire/unretire), and all the numerous visitors/merchants listed as hostile who don't leave the map.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: ☼Obsidian Short Sword☼ on September 28, 2022, 01:10:10 pm
Undead Cave Crocodiles.     

Just as the last of the wall is about to be finished:

Urist McFisherDwarf cancels Fish.
Ñ ☺
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: NTJedi on October 10, 2022, 04:16:27 pm
I ask to you all a single question. What annoys you the most in Dwarf Fortress. It may be a mechanic, an issue, a flaw you percieve. Anything.
  Here's my list of game flaws which should be a top priority:
1. The dwarves NEED their AI programming improved so players are not wasting time in DFHack:
A) Dwarves should be smart enough to equip military gear even if it means the dwarf removes the weakest clothing currently worn which is stopping them from completing this action.
B) Players should not be micro-managing the replacement and disposal of clothes.  Add a new "trash can" into the game which can be built where dwarves drop off old clothes which are burned at the end of a season.
C) The creatures and nature itself should naturally eat (destroy) remains of dead animals or creatures on the map.  Stealthy thieves should naturally take any weapons or armor left by the dead enemies which have been ignored by the player.  Players should not be spending their time as the cleaning maid for *everything* on the entire map.
D) Military dwarves should not be dropping their food inside their bedrooms which eventually rots and causes miasma.
E) Maksdwarves climbing over fortifications or Maksdwarves not standing against fortifications during battles.
F) Dwarven citizens trying to collect items outside the gates above ground and below ground when one or more dangerous enemies exist.  The game should estimate a danger level of any threat... wandering alligators should be a threat level 2 whereas a pack of undead elephants should be a threat level 8.  The player then can choose how normal dwarven citizens behave and how dwarven military behave for this at the start of the game and modify later if desired.

2. The game is called dwarf fortress where the main game has dwarves building fortresses and castles... yet siege attacks from enemies do not bring siege weapons?!??
Let us see the enemies break our gates with battering rams or shatter the walls with catapults!!  How a game could brilliantly provide so many great features yet miss something so basic is baffling.  If this exists as a MOD then I would be very interested in the name.

3. The evolution of weapons and armor in Dwarf Fortress is brief and limited.  Dwarves start the game building crossbows, but that's where it ends since siege weapons really can't be carried.  Players can buy bows and find blow darts which are overall weaker but no real incentive for them.  The only additional depth is what metals will the player need to pickup from trading. The time for crafting better quality is not very important.  I should probably ask around on the forums what MODS will provide more interesting options for my dwarves and for my enemies.

4. The game needs more world events, for example:
A) Earthquakes, Meteor showers (many small flaming metals(super_rare) and rocks), Volcanic eruptions, Hurricane, Tornadoes, Tsunami, Asteroid(One Giant rock with random metal inside).  These should be very rare such as once every 30 years.

B) World Champion Arena Event:  Each city will send a good warrior (not the best & not the worst) to compete for a special reward and title.  The reward might be a piece of land or an artifact or a random war animal, etc., etc., .

C) Some method or way of seeing where large armies of allies and enemies have been traveling.  Let the player send out multiple scouts which provide this information.

D) Joining allies to attack a common enemy and also enemies joining forces to attack the player.   The player should be allowed to at least watch battles from far away.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: etron on October 17, 2022, 01:55:21 pm
Bins, sometimes  ;D
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: DrudeFiegler on October 24, 2022, 07:43:36 am
Re-doing orders and uniform from one fort to another. At some point, I know that i want all my gems cut, all my metals ore smelts, an ongoing production of pot/bin/crafts and so on. I'd very like being able to copy my orders from a previous game, and tweak them ^^
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: ☼Obsidian Short Sword☼ on October 24, 2022, 08:06:01 am
Re-doing orders and uniform from one fort to another. At some point, I know that i want all my gems cut, all my metals ore smelts, an ongoing production of pot/bin/crafts and so on. I'd very like being able to copy my orders from a previous game, and tweak them ^^

Have you tried Macros? (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Macros_and_keymaps)
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: TheBeardyMan on November 01, 2022, 06:38:59 am
Okay it's probably not my biggest annoyance, but it's something that I keep running into quite frequently and feels like it could be more intuitive. It's annoying trying to find my few handfuls of masterful chests in the ocean of bags. It'd be neat if it had a split path, kind of like Meeting area ones, e.g. b-h-c for chests, and b-h-b for bags.

And that's not the only problem caused by bags and chests being the same item type. When you start creating job manager orders to make bags because you're setting up milling and glassmaking, chests can interfere with the conditions for those orders. There's a workaround of adding the sewn-imageless trait - always false for chests - to the available items that the condition is counting, but it's not perfect. There's always a possibility that you could end up with some bags that do have sewn images - usable for milling and glassmaking, but not included in the count so the job manager order will make more bags than you wanted.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: DrudeFiegler on November 01, 2022, 07:08:49 am
Quote
Have you tried Macros? (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Macros_and_keymaps)

Nope. I'm always forgetting this functionality exists. Guess I'm still too traumatized from my early Excel days to use this in a game ^^.  But yeah, it should solve a bit of the problem.
Title: Re: What annoys you the most in DF?
Post by: rico6822 on November 22, 2022, 12:19:57 pm
A macro has a limit of being repeated 99 times at most if I realize correctly. It could be extended to unspecified. Would greatly help with crossbow training in adventure mode (I never use it but killers of some titans or clowns would find it a life saver).