Bay 12 Games Forum
Dwarf Fortress => DF Dwarf Mode Discussion => Topic started by: warlordzephyr on March 29, 2010, 03:53:21 pm
-
This probably has been done but not that i've seen so i'd like to raise the question, what makes DF so awesome for you? Is it the ASCII that makes you look like your reading the matrix aswell as providing a base for your imagination, or is it the strategy, architexture, physics or any of the other things that are in the game. DF should be on your CV, not many people can say they have climbed the learning cliff, channeled the magma that waits for the most inopportune moment to strike and built a fort harnessing the pure awesome that is DF.
-
Its a Dungeon Keeper/Evil Genius style game, and those games are extremely rare.
Its also got more depth and complexity than most AAA level games. It doesn't have a $10 million art budget, but its got far more gameplay than most of those big name games.
Also, its completely insane.
In what other game can you drop unruly uninvited guests into a pit where they are slowly devoured by kittens? Also, megaprojects that are hilariously excessive and backfire in fun ways. :D
-
ASCII + Nothing is impossible.
-
Because you can annihilate 100 lives in three seconds in a horrible, unspeakable manner...and even if you lose because of it, you can always start over again from scratch and think of something even worse.
Basically: infinite cruelty creativity.
-
Alpha user interface aside, the simplistic graphics are a major plus for the game as they aid immersion wonderfully. Other than that, it's the sheer realism and depth of the game that sells it for me, plus the novelty of the whole thing. I really can't think of any one single game that compares in gameplay style to Dwarf Fortress.
The cute situations that arise from its alpha state, coupled with the wonderful black humour you develop while playing, add to the experience as well.
-
It brings a whole new meaning to "sandbox" gaming. There infinite possibilities and then some. No matter how much you play, there is always something new.
-
I like the challenge and the complexity, there aren't any other games out there that are not only difficult but seem actively out to get you quite like DF is. Sim City, the Sims etc are pretty much one trick ponies and the Civ games all focus on very specific goals. But with DF though, "You wanna build a giant stone ass above your fort that craps hot lava on invaders? FUCK YEA! POST SCREENSHOTS!"
I mean, when They Got Leader says infinite possibilities he means it, and in no other game are the stupidest ideas you've ever heard (like aforementioned lava ass) in fact the most complicated projects you could possibly come across.
-
Not to mention the fact that this community is simply awesome.
Point in case: the elves.
"Friggen hippies."
"Wait, what happens if we..."
"Dude! THAT'S AMAZING!"
*Tries it, posts screenshots*
You can do pretty much anything and then some. With the support of a community who laughs when you laugh, it makes the experience that much better!
-
To me, it really is that DF is a true sandbox game, the player is given the tools to make his own fun, and then everyone can have his own kind of fun. Be that building a metropolis, a utopia, a war camp, or a wooden above ground fort designed to provoke war with everyone. If I can't decide to go somewhere random with just the dwarves and exactly 38 cows and 81 stones, only to build up the stones into a huge tower and toss the cows off it, then it's not a sandbox game.
The fact that DF is extremely detailed really helps. Weapon traps cutting out the liver of invaders? Can't get that kind of gruesome detail in other games.
-
ASCII and its pure awe inspiring sweetness.
-
All of the above is accurate.
I would like to add that I crave quality micromanagement in games. We used to see some of it in the olden days of MOO (1&2), MOM, etc. DF has more micromanagement than I know what to do with, and once I'm done learning how to do it the way I currently play, there are are other ways to play that I haven't even started with their own methods.
So, you have quality micromangement, coupled with vast possibilities of style of play, coupled with the inability to "win" beyond successfully building a lava-crapping master crafted microcline ass and use it a few times before you lose.
The inability to "win" forces the players to assign value to things other than "completing" the game, which reinforces the VAST number of play styles.
-
DF makes the story for you, randomly and with your permission.
-
Booze, Beards, and Blood!
-
DF is the only sandbox game I know of in which you can turn the sand into glass and use it to stab nobles.
-
The ASCII, mainly. I haven't played for that long, but I have almost always preferred to read a book compared to watching a movie. The symbols help me imagine whats going on, with my imagination, compared to a 'modern' game like, lets say, GarrysMod, where everything is shown by a 3D model and textures, leaving no room for your (my) imagination.
That, and goblins that are exploding while drowning. Blood goes everywhere... oh god, I love my Limestone Pyramid...
And the music. I love it.
-
The amount of things you can do and the different play-styles. I, for example, actually like managing a fort serious, while my cousin likes finding creative methods of destroying things. When our powers combine, it results in hilarious joint-games where I create and he destroys.
The point is...there's NO game that allows you to do that and still make it so damned fun. In SimCity, you can cause fires or earthquakes to happen; pre-set disasters that, while powerful, are predictable. In Dwarf Fortress, simply digging one channel can route an entire river into your fortress.
In short, the question is, "What makes Dwarf Fortress so awesome?"
Everything.
-
The question is: what makes it not awesome?
-
...Everything...
-
The question is: what makes it not awesome?
Or perhaps the better question is what makes awesome so like Dwarf Fortress?
-
I like the fact that I have free range to design my fortresses, rather than simply placing down buildings like in other RTSes. And aye, more Evil Genius/Dungeon Master-like games need to be made.
-
The question is: what makes it not awesome?
Or perhaps the better question is what makes awesome so like Dwarf Fortress?
Agreed.
-
Hi!
As others have mentioned, the complete freedom of game style is a definite plus. You have a lot of people following relatively aggressive approaches towards their dwarves, but you can just as well care for your dwarves and protect them. The same goes for cats and kittens. Or the elven traders, for that matter.
The other bonus this game has and shares with the original SimCity series (and which makes SimCity Societies such a disappointment) is the unpredictability of the details. Sure, you can tell your dwarves to decorate things and engrave walls - but they choose what to depict and how to comment on it via the title. Likewise, they interact with each other socially.
Despite the aforementioned similarities, DF finally excels in sheer complexity and detail - even if the new features of Societies would have been added to the original SimCity, it would not even be a fraction of what DF is in that regard. There is so much detail that you can always discover something new.
Deathworks
-
It's one of the few games praised for it's level of detail in everything from environment to characters and more, without the praising people meaning the graphics.
-
build a giant stone ass above your fort that craps hot lava on invaders?
Fuck yeah! Post screens when it's finished
-
The ASCII, the lego approach to building aboveground stuff, the fact that you can build whatever you want.
But what I find very important is the fact that there are always alternatives in the methods how you accomplish stuff. For instance: you're on a map without any wood? Then you can build your barrels out of that copper that you just found.
Except for beds... and glass (need sand on the map), I can't think of anything that has to be created out of some certain material (and I'd vote for alternatives for the beds, too: if dwarves can construct plant fibre shoes, then they can construct plant fibre beds as well!)
Also, building walls of ice and directing magma through them is awesome. :P
-
The fact I can not just drown nobles in water or magma, I can melt adamantine and flood my enemies with it.
All hail the infinite generator!
-
I really like that you can build anything you can imagine, and the level of detail really draws you into the game in a way that piles of LEGO cannot. I feel like I'm building a real fortress, rather than just rearranging symbols on the screen.
I also love building contraptions of dubious utility. The complexity of the game mechanics allows room for all kinds of creative exploits that are more like emergent phenomena. For example, I managed to build a functioning computer in DF. That's more than you can say for pretty much every other game out there.
I'm sure we've all heard of other more better known creations, such as obsidian farms, mermaid farms, fire-imp pillboxes and such.
-
Wheres that sandbox game quote, the one about dropping kittens, i think that one fits nicely here :)
-
Why is DF awesome? personally... the combat system does it for me. mostly realistic hits, arms coming off, people dieing of bloodloss rather then arbitrary hit point losses. and it's one of the few games that show spears and pointy weapons in their full mutilition capabilities as opposed to wimpy weapons that plink away at people.
Also... how many games let you kill people with a artifact weapon made of soap
-
Firehound I think you forgot all the broken brains and livers and other funny stuf
Personally I like DF because of all the things that cause Fun that rapidly escalates into !!Fun!! and Fun and sometimes even !!Fun!!
dwarf fortress the only game where a dwarf burns to death while drowning
gotta love this alpha releases
-
Modding.
I would never play Elder Scrolls without the ability to make my own wizard towers and stuff them with random junk, and pimp out my sorceress with magic glasses and glowing blue armor and a chained up eldritch tome for a shield.
First thing I did when I got Dwarf Fortress was crack open the raws, and look for what I could fiddle with.
Customizability is my catnip, and the more I get, the more I will stick around a game.
-
dwarf fortress the only game where a dwarf burns to death while drowning
Actually, Far Cry 2 was pretty bad about this.
-
God noticed the game, said "that's awesome," and so it was. ;D
Well, no, not really. I don't think any one thing can be pinned down. It's not just individual aspects of the game, it's how they all come together.
-
Because you can annihilate 100 lives in three seconds in a horrible, unspeakable manner...and even if you lose because of it, you can always start over again from scratch and think of something even worse.
Basically: infinite cruelty creativity.
Crueltivity?
-
Because you can annihilate 100 lives in three seconds in a horrible, unspeakable manner...and even if you lose because of it, you can always start over again from scratch and think of something even worse.
Basically: infinite cruelty creativity.
Crueltivity?
Sometimes known as but not to be confused with dwarven science.
-
Certainly not the user interface.
I will be very happy the day something is done regarding that interface.
I usually start a fort, make some progress and when i reach a certain point ... I am no longer able to endure that interface. and i stop.
40dXX is already a tiny bit better with the zoom feature, even if a bit slow when zoomed out.
I donated twice, next payment will be after the UI improvements.
-
I think this question could get quite deep, really. So let's have a try:
DF is a work of art. Toady has given a very distinct feel to the game, given it very distinctive themes and motifs which are interesting and compelling.
DF is a work of no small intelligence. This not only applies to the programming, but to the thought processes underlying various design decisions. Consider the realism in the geology - if I'm looking for various types of ores, I'll need to look in the appropriate rock layers. Thought is given as to how various in-game events would affect mood and how different personalities might respond to a given event. Wounds are treated realistically, not abstracted to a great extent. All these details create an unparalleled suspension of disbelief, thus making the experience one of the most immersive in the gaming world to date.
Considering the level of detail, it is surprising how much flexibility and freedom the gamer is allowed. This not only applies to the design and construction of your fortress, but is expressed even in the choice of ASCII as the default graphics option. Providing few graphical details means the gamer is forced to mentally enter the creative process, imagining the details themselves. Consider the different era Fisher Price figurines: the old version, which I grew up with, had very few details. A ball on a cylinder represented body shape, a simple dot each for eyes and nose, a thin line for a mouth. The modern version is kitted out with detailed hair, clothes, accessories. Obviously a ploy to sell more toys, but in actual fact it has been shown that children prefer the older version - it allows them greater freedom to imprint their imagination on the toy, more control over the imagined personality and personhood of the toy in question, thus more control of the game. Same thing with Dwarf Fortress, I think. Hinting at details rather than expressing them creates a more immersive experience.
I could say more, but I'll spare you. (/lecture)
-
Yup, I too prefer the older toys. When I was a kid, my toys were not fancy. They were not battery powered with noise and flashing lights.
Those are all scripted toys, and they're obnoxious in addition to basically requiring the child to play with the toy in only one way.
With a generic, low detail toy there is a helluva lot more room for imagination, and imagination sure beats the hell out of even the biggest art budget. Its not scripted, its completely open ended. The toys are what I want them to be at the moment, and just by imaging something else I could then do something completely different with them, rather than rely on those scripted battery powered lights and sounds.
And DF is like Legos, on mega steroids. You can do whatever the hell you want with them. The only limit is your imagination. :D
-
And DF is like Legos, on mega steroids. You can do whatever the hell you want with them. The only limit is your imagination. :D
More like LEGOs on the computer done right. LDD is neat, but isn't interactive enough and whatnot.
-
And DF is like Legos, on mega steroids. You can do whatever the hell you want with them. The only limit is your imagination. :D
More like LEGOs on the computer done right. LDD is neat, but isn't interactive enough and whatnot.
Indeed, it's like legos, only when you run out of a certain piece, you can have your miners run off and search for more while you work on something else. Oh, and you never step on that small, but ultra sharp, brand new piece that you lost when stumbling to the bathroom at night.
Personally, I like it because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
-
Personally, I like it because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
Heh... I just might have to quote that. I think some of the people claiming they love it for the ASCII have a little of that going on in their reasoning, as well - ASCII is ugly and not terribly intuitive, but it has a charm to those that grow used to it, just because they have grown used to it.
I think that the community actually has quite a bit to do with DF's success (is "success" the right word?), honestly. I know that reading up on Boatmurdered is what finally pushed me to look into this game, and it was reading the little bullets of examples on TV Tropes that even made me aware of it in the first place. I likewise tend to spend more time in these forums than I do actually playing the game itself...
-
Oh, yes, the epic tales this game creates, such as Boatmurdered, are a big attraction to me. Though, I'll admit I haven't been able to get into any other fortress's story as much as I did the original BM.
Also, the number of random things that you can do with this game. I'm currently trying to finish off my latest fortress, "Fencedmortals", a hanging bridge fort over an insanely massive river canyon with sheer walls. This game will always find ways to surprise you: after loosing about 20 dwarves from falling off (had a hole in the wall of my baracks for the longest time, causing one soldier to semi-regularly toss another over the edge, into 10+ z levels of air), goblin ambushes, sub-par living quarters (I can't smooth/engrave constructed rooms), and regular forgetfulness induced food/drink shortages, I've only gotten one tantrum, and no spiraling.
A second surprise: I'm constantly catapulting rocks at the trade depot out of frustration, and no one is dying. Not my dwarves, not the pack mules, and not the caravan guards.
-
A second surprise: I'm constantly catapulting rocks at the trade depot out of frustration, and no one is dying. Not my dwarves, not the pack mules, and not the caravan guards.
I think that, unlike with ballistas, catapults are completely friendly-safe.
-
A second surprise: I'm constantly catapulting rocks at the trade depot out of frustration, and no one is dying. Not my dwarves, not the pack mules, and not the caravan guards.
I think that, unlike with ballistas, catapults are completely friendly-safe.
catapult rocks only do damage where they stop moving, so if they fly past the depot then they actually fly over it, so they cant hurt anything. I think they aren't as much friendly-fire safe as just unreliable in hitting friendly targets.
-
What makes Dwarf Fortress so awesome?
When it gets to easy, I can mod it to make it harder. Tried Dig Deeper for a while, then Civilization Forge Unleashed, than added Dig Deeper orcs to Civ Unleashed. When that got too easy, I made the orcs faster and bigger.
-
When it gets to easy, I can mod it to make it harder. Tried Dig Deeper for a while, then Civilization Forge Unleashed, than added Dig Deeper orcs to Civ Unleashed. When that got too easy, I made the orcs faster and bigger.
speaking of which anybody know how to crank up spawn rates for megabeasts?
-
I just pumped magma into the ocean and made a giant island in the middle of it. The plan is to make it into a fortress, then rig it up to a single support and collapse it like Atlantis. What other game can you do that in?
-
"If you can't build a tower upon a sheer cliff face over which you may throw precisely one hundred and fifty-two kittens and seven stalwart dwarves to their explosive doom some fifty stories below, then brother, your game ain't much of a sandbox, is it?"
Need anymore be said?
-
You lot should read glazedcoast on broken forum. I may go so far as to say it is better than boatmurdered