Bay 12 Games Forum
Dwarf Fortress => DF Suggestions => Topic started by: RysanMarquise on July 25, 2016, 12:59:14 pm
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Right now, as I understand it, there are not clear plans on artifact effects except in their nature for personal disputes, and because they are valuable.
I believe it is quite reasonable to apply some basic effects procedurally, and I think I have come up with a basic system for such a thing.
So, dwarf fortress as a series of spheres.
An artifact can be separated into a couple spheres, based upon its materials and what it is. If this means it has more than 3 spheres, 3 will be selected randomly. If this means it only has two spheres, a third will be added randomly. That will probably be the only way to add more unusual ones like Twilight.
A sword might for example be War/Metals/Something random.
A basic effect format that can be done, would be Effect/Cost/Target. Cost applies to the owner of the artifact (perhaps the owner of the room for furniture style items), and both Target and Cost can change effect scale.
For example:
Metal might be:
Effect: Repair damage to items
Cost: The artifact degrades slightly. 10x effect.
Target/Trigger: When something is hit with the artifact.
War might be:
Effect: Cause harm to a target.
Cost: The wielder feels pain 1/2 effect.
Target/Trigger: Everyone near someone who is struck by this object.
As a random third, because its a basic metal sword (maybe with spikes of metal).
Twilight might be:
Effect: Causes drowsiness.
Cost: Causes drowsiness in user (1/2 effect).
Target/Trigger: Everyone near the object when the sun sets each day.
So this metal sword might come in one of several configurations.
It might be Metal/War/Twilight
Repairs items, at the cost of making its owner feel pain, every day at twilight. This repairs them at 1/2 base effectiveness, whatever that may be.
It might be War/Twilight/Metal
A pretty classic magic sword. Causes harm to people it hits, while making its user drowsy. Half effectiveness of the harm.
Overall the basic premise of the system can generate a pretty huge number of effects, while respecting general themes.
For divine artifacts, a god could simply choose 3 of its spheres when blessing an object.
Its relatively easy to come up with a full list of these things for all spheres, but implementing them is the real difficulty.
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Why should an artifact have more than one sphere? Also, artifacts are supposed to be immune to degradation.
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For a proper random feel, there should also probably be inane, borderline-useless properties to go with the good and bad. Like daggers that permanently change the eye-color of creatures they stab, or buckets that aren't affected by gravity or inertia and so hover in place wherever someone "drops" it.
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Well, the example had a 10x effect strength because artifacts generally never degrade. I do think there is something interesting to a super-legendary sword you made that can only be used a handful of times, but can slay dragons or perform similar feats.
The multiple sphere idea is to make sure effects are very diversified. When there are 10s of spheres, do you really need to say each item is indicative of just one? I personally don't see why, and more spheres can also make it so that two superficially different groups can fight over it as representing their very different beliefs. After all, a flute that kills those that listen to it can be said to be related to both music and death. I don't see why just one sphere should have claim to such a thing.
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Well, the example had a 10x effect strength because artifacts generally never degrade. I do think there is something interesting to a super-legendary sword you made that can only be used a handful of times, but can slay dragons or perform similar feats.
I believe the current code works by resetting the wear to 0 each tick. The durability wouldn't persist without changing things just for this purpose.
The multiple sphere idea is to make sure effects are very diversified. When there are 10s of spheres, do you really need to say each item is indicative of just one? I personally don't see why, and more spheres can also make it so that two superficially different groups can fight over it as representing their very different beliefs. After all, a flute that kills those that listen to it can be said to be related to both music and death. I don't see why just one sphere should have claim to such a thing.
Multiple spheres makes each artifact a mish-mash, with little underlying purpose. How did these spheres come into play during the item's construction? It's not dwarven inspiration alone that creates a magic artifact. Materials and the possessing force should matter.
A flute is always a musical instrument. The supernatural property is death.
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Right now, as I understand it, there are not clear plans on artifact effects except in their nature for personal disputes, and because they are valuable.
There are.
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Right now, as I understand it, there are not clear plans on artifact effects except in their nature for personal disputes, and because they are valuable.
There are.
May I know what said plans are? To my knowledge there was just the nonspecific idea of effects.
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http://bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html
Examples:
Artifact can cause or cure curses/effects by existence or position or ritual etc.
Intelligent and semi-intelligent artifacts
Plus all the stuff under magic is sort of implied to involve artifacts heavily.
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I really like this suggestion.
According to dftalk 1 and 7, the number of spheres isn't what Toady wants to do.
The whole framework looks good to me. Artifacts having random effects on various use should make everything fun.
Mythology of ancient Greece gives us lots of artifacts and some effects:
Horn of Plenty - full of food when somebody wants to eat (NEED)
Pandora's Box - curse upon opening (MUNDANE USE)
Ambrosia - immortality when eaten (DRINKING/EATING)
Other effects can come from games:
On hitting target, on attack, on block, when wearing
Harder than triggers is getting a lot of effects to make sure that no artifact is the same even if some of them are silly.
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http://bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html
Examples:
Artifact can cause or cure curses/effects by existence or position or ritual etc.
Intelligent and semi-intelligent artifacts
Plus all the stuff under magic is sort of implied to involve artifacts heavily.
Yeah, the dev notes are full of artifact magic links. The only thing unclear right now is if artifacts in the initial artifact release will actually have magical effects or if it'll be left until the magic releases to deal with that. Maybe someone should ask in Fotf? The artifact release magic powers speculation thread is full of excited folk though, so perhaps better to leave it be...
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I do think its alright if artifacts can be the same, because they are fairly rare. In this system, even if they are made of the exact same materials and there are two materials, then they have a 1 in 6 chance of actually behaving the same way, and those odds go way down for more or less materials.
I am bringing up this suggestion, because I am concerned Toady is going to make something more like a list of magical artifacts or effects, or that at best the effects wont really influence gameplay in the fort. I think this could keep it interesting.
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http://bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html
Examples:
Artifact can cause or cure curses/effects by existence or position or ritual etc.
Intelligent and semi-intelligent artifacts
Plus all the stuff under magic is sort of implied to involve artifacts heavily.
Yeah, the dev notes are full of artifact magic links. The only thing unclear right now is if artifacts in the initial artifact release will actually have magical effects or if it'll be left until the magic releases to deal with that. Maybe someone should ask in Fotf? The artifact release magic powers speculation thread is full of excited folk though, so perhaps better to leave it be...
Almost surely until the magic, release, since, like, magic artifacts should probably wait until magic and artifacts are both in.