Bay 12 Games Forum
Dwarf Fortress => DF Suggestions => Topic started by: S0ZDATEL on December 12, 2017, 01:58:53 pm
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All that should be in the game.
I thank all the readers for reading this topic. I'm from Russia, so try not to pay attention to the mistakes I will make. And also, sorry if some of the aspects of the game:
-Described in other topics.
-Described on the official website of the game.
-Already added to the game, but I didn't notice it.
Okay, now to business. I decided to describe here all the aspects of the game that, in my opinion, it is necessary to add to the game. Let's start in order.
1)Localization support.
Let the game supports different languages. This will make the game easier to understand non-English-speaking people and improve the user-friendliness of the interface.From myself personally I ask to add support of the Cyrillic alphabet. :)
2)Migrate all resources of the game from .exe in raw files.
Move all resources from .exe to RAW files (for example, a screw press is in a RAW file, you can edit it or even delete, but most of the rest of the workshops are right in .exe file of the game, which cannot be edited or deleted). This applies not only to the workshops. Ideally, all game resources must be in the RAW files that allow you to edit the text, workshops, creatures, civilizations, and more (actually, all). For example, right now it is impossible to remove the buildings from the available list, to edit settings of immigration, change the number of embarking dwarves and a lot of "don'ts". The transfer of game resources into RAW files will simplify the development of the game for you and will allow fans to modify the game in anticipation of a new release.
3)More tokens.
Add in game support for more tokens. And when I say "more", it means "huge". A large number of tokens will provide incredible opportunities for customization, variety and fine tuning all in the game. New tokens of the materials will give them unprecedented features, e.g., glow (sword of shining metal, lighting the way for his master, and a set of armor of shining fabric will not allow the owner to be alone with the darkness, but such equipment will immediately reveal your location for the enemy) or extraction force (leggings from necrometal excellent protection, but legs are getting weak, like wither, speed more and more slowing down, till your feet die finally; dwarves living in the mountain of necrotite, quickly grow old and weaken with time, and after sleeping on the bed from necrowood they are even more tired), the new tokens will allow creatures to give them special abilities such as control over the mind of other creatures (small predators, forcing victim to come to him, or powerful abductors of the mind is able to subdue half of the fortress, and maybe megabeast that inspire bad thoughts in the heads of the dwarves?) and tune their behavior (cats will hunt birds, climb to them on the trees and you need to not let them into your chickens, and maybe a burning dwarf will throw everything and the first thing he will want to jump into the river?), new tokens of civilizations would be capable of something fantastic, like creating underwater domes with cities people inside (the underwater subway instead of caravans).
Here I gradually move from technical issues to questions about the content.
4)Fix the physics.
The game has a good physics system that calculates the masses of the objects and their sizes, density, temperature, melting, boiling, the number of sharp corners, the aggregate state, the resistance of a material to impact, compression, tension, torsion, shear, bending, cooling, heating, ignition, and much more. But part of that is not being used at all, the part is used part. And whatnot not enough. For example:
-Wood fell into the water, drown, regardless of the density, and this applies not only to wood but to all objects with low density.
-Any destructible rock can be destroyed with a pickaxe of any material.
-Big creatures like giants or dragons, take up as much space as the small, such as a grasshopper or lizard, and the giant can't cross the wall the height of a dwarf. For drowning dwarf and a bronze colossus required 7/7 level of water.
-Pollution is not washed off with water, but only taken away over a greater area.
-Creatures of all sizes are placed in the cage; burning creature, or capable of causing fire (like dragons) do not burn wood cages; creatures with ranged attacks (goblin crossbowman (or crossbow-goblin?), forgotten creature, emitting poisonous gases or the dragon) can't use them through the cages; little creatures, like dragonflies, are unable to leave a metal cage, and for escape from wooden cages they have to chew; creatures in cages do nothing at all, they don't even breathe and not die of suffocation.
-Mechanisms are connected remotely.
-Drawbridge does not require a bit of power to lift. This applies to many other mechanisms, such as floodgate, doors, hatches and lifting bars.
-The temperature under the ground. The temperature under the ground never changes.
-Bodies of water instantly freeze and thaw. When you are freezing any quantity of water and subsequent thawing creates the maximum possible amount of water (7/7).
-The food under the ground is stored in barrels for decades.
-The lake fills with water during rain, and dug a hole this is not happening. By increasing the volume of the lake, you notice that the rain water will accumulate only in its intact part.
-If you dig all the roots under the tree, it will disappear; if to cut down a fruit tree, the fruits will disappear; it is impossible to cut part of the tree, leaving the other part intact; construction on the trees makes the tree disappear.
-You can build huge structures hanging in the air on a single thin column.
-On one tile, you can put unlimited number of items, but the items in the stockpiles are placed one per tile.
-Rails can be carved on the stone floor, then the floor can be smooth that will clean the rails, then re-carve the rails, to smooth again... and so on to infinity. Thus it is possible to remove engravings on the floor. Enough to carve on them the rails, to smooth them out, and can be applied a new engraving.
-The speed with which the dwarf pushes a minecart depends on the speed of the dwarf, but not from his strength. When pushing the minecart with the dwarves ignored the rollers and ramps. The friction of the minecart depends on the tile on which she rides, but not mass. It is possible to create "impulse ramps", the acceleration of the minecarts.
-Fumes and gases disappear into nowhere, even in a closed room with no means of escape.
-Pump and well desalinate salt water.
-For growth the plants do not require anything. The only one - for the growth of underground plant, once is enough water stones.
-There is no air. For the air is considered to be any empty space. In a small enclosed space, a huge number of creatures can breathe forever.
-Liquids do not create air pockets.
-The passage of fluid through the diagonal relieve the pressure.
-It is possible to create a perpetual motion machine of pumps and water wheels.
-Water wheel does not interact with water. Any flow of water creates the same amount of energy to the water wheel. Any number built in a row on a single flow water wheels do not weaken the flow.
-Bridges incredibly strong and able to destroy a huge army in seconds. Retractable bridges will not move, but simply disappear. Drawbridge of any length with the rise create a wall of equal height. Bridges are raised and lowered instantly.
-Windmills produce the same amount of energy anywhere on the map at any season in any weather.
-Magma is not able to burn many of not magma-resistant structures, as trees, wooden walls, closed floodgate and doors, etc.
-Magma in volcanoes appears at the top level, regardless of the presence of obstacles and the integrity of the volcano.
-The strange mechanics of the light. The tile, once become light it will never be dark, the same applies to the concepts of above ground and subterranean tiles.
-The strange mechanics of siege weapons (which are only used to protect from siege). Catapult throws stones only on the same Z-level as she, at the same time destroying the stone, which was shot, but if the stone falls below, he will not break. The same applies to the ballista. Catapult can't hurt your dwarves. Catapult somehow throwing stones through fortification. The ballista projectile flies through the trees.
-Strange mechanic of noise. There are no barriers to noise. Workshops do not create any noise, even the "loud" craft, like blacksmithing. Creatures do not create noise, even playing musical instruments and singing songs. The noise is only generated at the end of the "noisy" work, but not during its execution. Many things that should make noise, do not do this, for example, waterfalls, battle, or explosion of alcohol.
-Collapses instantly kills all creatures under the rubble.
-Buildings that use magma as fuel, not interact with it.
-The strange mechanics of time. Time in adventure mode more than fortress mode, which causes different effects from the syndromes. In fortress mode all year round day and no night, days pass too quickly, causing dwarves months of work and sleep for weeks.
-Here you can write a LOT...
5)Fix the behavior of the creatures.
Now each creature has its own specific behavior. Some are herbivorous, others flying, and others have to drink alcohol... But often the creatures did not react to the situation and act very strange. For example:
-Creatures are able to see the entire map. Just arrived settlers see what happens over the hill, immigrants know where there is a stockpile with a drink, born in a fortress and never leaving it dwarf knows that outside there is a trade depot and goblins have an exact map of your fortress. You, in turn, will learn about their arrival and see them move, even if the entrance is bricked up and has no windows.
-No one pays attention to the fire. Dwarf will be happy to wear !!cave spider silk robe!! and go on about their business, for example going to bed or, even worse, he decide to drink a little alcohol. He did not even notice that he burns, do not try extinguish, for example, jumping in the river. The same applies to all creatures.
-Dodging the attacks, the creatures stepped aside, despite the fact that there is a dangerous area (magma, cliff, fire, etc.).
-Undead are just... hostile to all living things. Their only desire - the desire to kill living creatures, although it is described that the necromancers build towers using their undead. So the necromancer can control the behavior of the undead. However, in adventure mode, playing a necromancer, it is impossible to give any orders to your undead.
-Thoughts of the dwarves have little effect on gameplay. Yes, dwarves can go crazy, yes, sad noble will gives more mandates... and nothing more. This is a slightly.
-Dwarves (and not only) who are in places, delivering them a bad thought (for example, near the cage containing the creature, which they do not like, or in a cloud of miasma) will not attempt to go to a better place. They will remain to stand and sniff the miasma.
-The search algorithm of the shortest path to the closest subject sometimes gives strange results because of ignoring obstacles. Because of this, the masons ran to the nearest excluding the obstacles to the stone, running the entire fortress. Instead of taking it from the depot in front they move on to other Z-levels. This applies to all creatures.
-Birds and other egg-laying animals will lay eggs only in the nest boxes made by your dwarves. You might think that they are not able to make a nest themselves.
-Dwarves use the stepladder only for picking fruit from trees. If they can't get to the construction site due to the lack of ramps and stairs, they won't use the stepladder.
-Animals do not fear the dwarves. Dwarves run past pigs, ducks and chickens, but animals do not pay attention to it.
-Here you can write a LOT...
6)Add documentation.
It would be great if the game was attended by the documentation. And not only in gameplay but also in tokens. Personally, I do not fully understand how some of the tokens work, and with adding more tokens need for documentation increases. Documentation in different languages - an ideal option.
7)Add functionality to objects.
In the game there are objects not functioning as they should, either not functioning at all, although they can come up with some use. For example:
-The task of gathering sand retards the melting it into glass. Is one dwarf is unable to melt the sand into glass, while the second collects new sand. The same applies to some other tasks (the collection of clay delays the firing already collected clay, catching pests delays the training has caught pests, etc.).
-The lever cannot be disconnected from the connected objects.
-The decoration objects you can choose the material and type of decoration, the type of object you want to decorate (furniture, goods, clothing, etc.), but it is impossible to specify what object it should decorate. If I want to decorate the bed for a noble dwarf with gems, I have to wait for my jeweler decorates stuff like doors and bags. It's a waste of time and gems.
-Noble almost doing nothing. The broker is only needed when trading, and not necessarily to trade him, anyone can trade. The expedition leader is meet with useless diplomats who speak the same pair of phrases from year to year. Bookkeeper somehow counts the amount of rubbish in the fortress, sitting in his office. The sheriff and the hammerer is almost not needed, because the crimes occur VERY rarely. Noble just issue mandates (or prohibits the export of goods (WHY? It has no purpose.), or assigns the production of objects (WHY? Again, useless.) and requires in their rooms 5 chests and cabinets (and some more) in their rooms that they never use.
-Wagon at the start of the game makes no sense. Dwarven caravans brought the goods in the wagon, but this wagon is not used for anything.
-Here you can write a LOT...
8)Introduce a system of technologies.
It would be great if dwarves (and not only) eventually opened the technology. First, it will make scientists of different fields of science useful, and secondly, it will make the gameplay more interesting. You can even make different technological levels of civilizations of the same race. While some dwarves used a quern, their more intelligent friends from the neighboring mountains full use the power of the wind and stream.
9)Improve the convenience and user-friendliness of the game..
I myself sometimes get confused in the interface and forget that I have to click and on what screen, and the newcomers even more confused in all variety of hot keys. Even the current interface is not very logical and confusing to do something non-standard. For example, it seems to me not really logical placement of objects in containers. For example, just made bone bolts are placed in the box a stack of five pieces, but already shooted by the hunter are placed separately one by one. I don't understand on what basis items are collected in stacks. It needs to improve.
10)Add emigration.
Immigrants is a good thing. They come to the fortress, bring their stuff, bring the family and animals. And if their expectations were not met, they... they... just stay here and sad. It would be great if they went, taking away property, taking away relatives and pets.
11)Add entertainment for the dwarves.
Sometimes dwarves go on break and sometimes they have nothing to do. Then they relax and have fun. How? They drink, eat, chat, listen to songs and music, drink... walk aimlessly around the fortress and the surrounding area... I have already said that they drink? Booorrr-ing. I wonder why they haven't jumped in the river due to such activities. Sometimes children play games and toys. Not enough entertainment in the fortress. Why bored dwarf not to swim? Maybe it would be more interesting here if they played chess? Maybe the soldiers will be happy to beat the dummy goblin?
12)Add mechanisms.
Dwarves can build mechanisms, such as drawbridges, or water wheels. But this is not enough. Why dwarves don't build, for example, elevators or conveyors that use mechanical energy for movement, or why not automate the ballista connected to a pressure plate? Will make a great trap for the goblins or someone bigger.
13)Add the lighting.
Dwarves, sitting in his dark fortress, suffer from cave adaptation. Of course, you can make solar wells for the lighting of the fortress. But if it is deep underground? If dwarves could make a torches, candelabra, braziers or fireplaces, it would be lighter.
14)Improve the environment.
In the game, little is due to environmental conditions. Well, in the rain dwarves are sad, being there, during a snowfall, in fact, the snow falls, so there are a few unusual phenomena in evil biomes. And that's all. I wish rain caused the water not only in lakes. Where water from melting snow? No change of day and night. Dwarves don't freeze in the winter or just in cold biomes, they don't need warm clothes or heating in their fortress. If the dwarf under the rain is sad, why he even got out of the fortress? He was not given jobs, like logging, he wanted and left. Just. What are rotates windmills, wind? Why it doesn't take away the falling leaves around? What ocean waves? It break the wagons (it is still possible to imagine...) and can be along with lava. Where is the logic?
15)Add interaction with the outside world.
After the dwarves embarked, they have virtually no interaction with the outside world. Sometimes the caravan come to trade, sometimes a siege, sometimes there comes a diplomat, to make peace, or just to say stuff. Oh and come immigrants, academics (absolutely useless) or just alcoholics who drink your beer at the tavern and then leave. The list ends. Why are dwarves not to send their caravan? Why can't they negotiate prices for next year with the elves and humans? Why elves don't care how much trees I cut down this year? Siege weapons of the dwarves are unable to move. Therefore, they do not send siege to other places?
16)To improve the system of laws.
It seems to me that the current system of laws is not finalized. For example, there is too little punishment. Dwarf can land you in jail, or beaten, or... also beaten. During the beating dwarf can be killed. It would be nice to do something like limitations. For example, a dwarf who has committed a minor offense, hit a couple of times, for heavy - badly beaten, but not killed, and the death penalty is imposed in a separate order. Dwarves with legendary skill levels are exempt from punishment. Even if he killed a few dwarves, being a berserker. You can add punishments such as exile (forced dwarf to pack up and leave the fortress), lower status (noble dwarf ceases to be noble), fine (take away money for a certain amount), confiscation of property (take away stuff for a certain amount), forced labor (for example, a dwarf that is not a hauler, forced to haul a certain number of stones to the stockpile, or dwarf that is not the pump operator will manually pump a certain volume of water, dwarf, or dwarf that is not a miner, forced to dig a certain volume of rock, etc.) forced recruitment (dwarf recruited into the squad for a certain period), to service for a noble (dwarf would bring them food and water, instead nobles take it themselves), the ban on drinking alcohol (dwarf can not drink alcohol a certain period) or trim the beard (even afraid).
17)Improve the health system.
The game has a good health system that monitors the condition of various parts of the body and the effects of syndromes. But in the game there is no diseases. Dwarves go to the hospital only if they was injured (or poisoned by poison). If a dwarf eat something that is not suitable for food (e.g. raw meat), they are not poisoned. If they will stay in the cold for a long time, they don't catch a cold. Dwarves can live in unsanitary and do not wash self for many years, and are not sick.
18)Add more control.
The game is not enough control. For example, you cannot order the dwarves to decorate a certain object, you can't order the squad to sneak up on the goblins from the rear, it is impossible to tell the miners to ignore the wet stone, you cannot specify the priority of the construction of buildings, and a lot of don'ts.
19)Improve the arena.
Right now arena is practically useless. It is very limited, making it inconvenient to use. For example, you cannot kill a summoned accidentally creature, it is impossible to remove accidentally added liquid, it is impossible to test items of varying quality (artifact, masterful, etc.), you can't test siege weapons and traps.
20)Make the artifacts useful.
Most artifacts are useless, like a figurine or totem. They are not what is not needed, have a greater value but cannot be sold. They are simply stored in the stockpile of goods.
21)Find a use for unused and underutilized skills.
Many of the skills now either not used at all or used indirectly. For example, bowyer skill is only used for the production of wooden and bone crossbows. Why not make it possible to use multiple skills at the same time? Then for the production of wooden crossbows would be used skills bowyer and carpenter, for the production of bone - bowyer and bone carver, and for the production of metal - bowyer and weaponsmith. Many social skills are almost completely useless. Why intimidator skill not used in battle?
22)Return economy.
Return economy in the game. Let dwarves buy food and clothes with money earned by honest labor. Or dishonest? Why would someone not become a thief? I want to make guests pay for the rooms and a drinks in my tavern. Now they just come, drink as they can, sleep, and leave without even thanking, sometimes taking with them some of MY things (scientists steal books from my library).
23)Make managing squads easier.
It seems to me that control squads are not very convenient. Right now you need to do several things on several screens to force units to train or to patrol the fortress. It is inconvenient to assign equipment for units, they don't want to take it, or something missing, or something else happens. Wood cutter can't use for battle the same axe that used for cutting trees. Why in the barracks to put armor stands and weapon racks if nobody uses them, even if you order to store the equipment in the barracks. On the screen create a squad you can't see the fighting skills of the dwarves.
24)Make the convenient management dwarves.
Management of dwarves it is not convenient. To assign the dwarves labors I have to do it individually. And to know their skills, I have to go to another screen, and another screen for personal traits. Thus, I have to view 3 screen, to assign a mason who has high skill and doesn't hate the stones. But if the fortress is big and the population is over 100? I need each view separately?
25)Add multiplayer.
Yes, it is one of the most difficult things I'm asking. But one of the coolest! Imagine if you could control the fortress with a friend. Or a few fortresses! You can trade with your friends and send them caravans (or a few FUNNY guys with spears), to conduct diplomacy (then my expedition leader will not sit on the stone throne, and take care of business). If I under a siege I'll ask a friend for help, will wait until his troops will come to me, and together we will crush the goblins. Or I can send a couple of my masons into his fortress, where no talented masons. Or you can create a congress of scientists (and then they are not only to drink and... drink). And what about Adventure Mode?
26)Add more job for dwarves.
Yes, dwarfish fortress work in full swing. But many works is not, or they are not used.
-Cleaners do not clean the dirt in my fortress... why?
-Farmers are working the week in the year and then 24/7 idle. Would be better if they watered and weeded the plants.
-About nobles I already wrote above. They are useless.
-Scientists research something?
-Parents watching their children? They continue to lose their children, but do not follow them, and then looking for them randomly running around the fortress... How do they determine that the child was lost, and so if they do not follow him?
-Here also write about fishermen. They fish and... fish. They do nothing more. They fish non-stop. If I set the fisherman another job, he'll go fishing. Fishermen with cleaning fish only fish, but the fish is not clean. Fishermen-farmers have no harvest. Hell, they barely even sleep! Of course, fishing is more important...
27)Add a lot of cool magical stuff.
Honestly, I have not had time to see the magic that you have added at the moment (if you added one), so I will say about it in general.
-Add a small "household" spells. It would be fun to have in the fortress wizard-cleaner uses magic to remove the blood and dirt from the entrance to the fortress. Or imagine a wizard using the lifting spell for moving stones from the mine to the stocks by air. Or spells that cause hand mills to work independently, without the dwarves. Or spells of evaporation, helping to drain the fortress after the flooding. Spells that support food fresh without drums. You can think of a lot of fun things...
-Nature spells would be cool. For example, spells that cause rain (although why would it, because he really is not affected to anything), or spells, to pacify wild animals, or raising mountains in the air. Imagine floating pieces of rock and cliffs that just came out of the ground and took off (fortress included).
-Combat spells may be of great help in a battle with a strong opponent. It would be fun to throw goblins with fireballs, push the kobolds off a cliff with wind or create the ice wall before them.
28)Make gods GODS.
Now the gods do nothing. They can give someone a sign of necromancer or turn someone into a vampire... and on it their infinite omnipotence ends. Why are they not listening to my prayers? Maybe they will attack the fortress? Imagine the attack of the deity on fortress! Maybe they can help me fight off a horde of demons. War of the gods and demons! Maybe they want to revive long-dead historical figure? Imagine returning to life king of dwarves who died 500 years ago. Deities could be cool, but now they do nothing.
29)Liven up the outside world.
Why generate huge worlds with cool history and many civilizations, if with all this in 99% of cases it is impossible to communicate? All caravans are same... sieges are same... diplomats are same... What do the residents of other cities and fortresses? Nothing! They just go around. One of them a blacksmith? Why isn't he standing at the anvil? This bum made the armor in which I was attacked their troops? I doubt it... With them you can't even really talk to... Why I must ask him about the monsters or dangers? Why not ask him to forge me a sword for order? Why can't I convince him to move to another village?
30)Listen to me (or at least read) ;).
It's not all that I can think of. I described everything in general, and I have plenty more ideas! I can even help with the translate or development (I can help translate the game into Russian, but without documentation to code to develop games that is quite difficult. Seriously, what are these tokens?)...
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Wow.. Indeed many of these things are either planned or not going to happen. Interesting reading nevertheless.
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Other than localization most of these are planned to the best of my knowledge.
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Things like the time in adventure and fortress mode being equal I think Toady has discarded as no way in hell. But I might be miss recalling.
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Localization is impossible due to the way the game renders letters. There is documentation. It's called "wiki". And most magic related stuff is coming in a few years. So is economy. So are laws. But multiplayer isn't.
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Most of these are, as someone once said, inevitable. Of the few that aren't:
-The strange mechanics of time. Time in adventure mode more than fortress mode, which causes different effects from the syndromes. In fortress mode all year round day and no night, days pass too quickly, causing dwarves months of work and sleep for weeks.
This will probably see some fine-tuning, but only so much. Time in Fortress Mode is necessarily truncated, and it's hard to see that changing. Day and night cycles are probably out of the question, unless embark scenarios encompass the flow of time.
6)Add documentation.
Toady has little incentive not to rely on the fans here. He has only so much time, and Dwarf Fortress is an unusually transparent game, so it's not too great an impediment. What can't be determined from modding, legends .xmls, or what-have-you can be answered in the Future of the Fortress.
25)Add multiplayer.
While this is doubtless at the bottom of Toady's priorities, I suppose it's not out of the question. He plans to one day tie the player's Fortress Mode actions to a particular noble, so it wouldn't be a huge leap to have one player as the sheriff, one as mayor, another as chief medical dwarf, and so on. Adventure Mode could probably be contorted into multiplayer form, but there are a few notable hurdles. Combat would have to be massively simplified, else it would be a nightmare, and fast travel, resting, etc. are similarly troublesome.
In case you haven't seen it, the Development Page (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html) gives a good idea of upcoming features, with the caveat that details are subject to change.
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In this thread: I would like to suggest, finishing the game.
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In this thread: I would like to suggest, finishing the game.
As in, a win condition? Nah.
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As in version 1.0
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As in version 1.0
This forum is for suggesting things that Toady One might not have thought of. Obviously, the concept of having a completed game does not fit that description. Which means that your comment, which could have been helpful and constructive, turns out to be merely petulant and whiny. Learn to code yourself, if you're in such a hurry.
As in, a win condition? Nah.
Once we have different embark scenarios, some of those might have their own achievable win conditions. Of course, when/if those conditions are met, I say the player should still have the option to continue on & play open-ended, just like vanilla Fort mode.
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Or maybe learn what In This Thread as a preface means. I wasnt suggestion to complete the game, I was summarizing up OP gluttony of suggestions to that.
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I wasnt suggestion to complete the game, I was summarizing up OP gluttony of suggestions to that.
You necroed a thread just to diss it? Again, not terribly constructive.
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Two suggestions:
The largest benefit I have seen happen with other games which add multiplayer is a massive increase in custom mods for new game content.
Within the last five years I have seen a massive increase in the number of games which are clones of dwarf fortress, but with better graphics. I am sure 99% of us will agree Dwarf Fortress is superior to MineCraft... so slightly better graphics would allow this game to explode in popularity.
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Two suggestions:
The largest benefit I have seen happen with other games which add multiplayer is a massive increase in custom mods for new game content.
Within the last five years I have seen a massive increase in the number of games which are clones of dwarf fortress, but with better graphics. I am sure 99% of us will agree Dwarf Fortress is superior to MineCraft... so slightly better graphics would allow this game to explode in popularity.
What are you talking about?
Dwarf Fortress is superior in EVERYTHING!! especially graphics...
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Two suggestions:
The largest benefit I have seen happen with other games which add multiplayer is a massive increase in custom mods for new game content.
Within the last five years I have seen a massive increase in the number of games which are clones of dwarf fortress, but with better graphics. I am sure 99% of us will agree Dwarf Fortress is superior to MineCraft... so slightly better graphics would allow this game to explode in popularity.
No multiplayer and no better graphics. That is final.
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Two suggestions:
The largest benefit I have seen happen with other games which add multiplayer is a massive increase in custom mods for new game content.
Within the last five years I have seen a massive increase in the number of games which are clones of dwarf fortress, but with better graphics. I am sure 99% of us will agree Dwarf Fortress is superior to MineCraft... so slightly better graphics would allow this game to explode in popularity.
What are you talking about?
Dwarf Fortress is superior in EVERYTHING!! especially graphics...
I wish that was true... because then Dwarf Fortress gaming community would be closer to the size of the MineCraft gaming community. We all agree Dwarf Fortress is the better game... so what's holding it back from exploding with popularity? Easy way to find the answer... find 10 gamers or more which haven't played the game and after two hours(if they last that long)... ask them "what would improve the game?" With my testing of co-workers, family and friends.... the top three answers were the graphics, the user interface and no multiplayer. It's sort of like finding a sports car with the best engine, best gas mileage, best price value and most reliable yet the outside looks like a 1970s pinto with only three gears.... it's not tough to understand why it's not more successful. The more successful the game the more donations for Toady and more custom content from a growing community.
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Toady does not want either. And the developer always has the final say here. And imagine how much time moderating a large community would soak up.
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look DF is never going to "explode in popularity" people are just too dumb to realise how great of a game DF is and far too lazy to spend more than 5 minutes to learn how to play. Just think of it, what does minecraft has that dwarf fortress don't? A fricking baby can play minecraft, now can a baby play dwarf fortress?
in my opinion DF is better off as an obscure game from the dephts of internet that few people know its potential
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in my opinion DF is better off as an obscure game from the dephts of internet that few people know its potential
Exactly. Minecrap has a cancerous community. Bay12 is not cancerous.
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in my opinion DF is better off as an obscure game from the dephts of internet that few people know its potential
Exactly. Minecrap has a cancerous community. Bay12 is not cancerous.
I have found most players from games are friendly in the forums. Seems unreasonable to believe an entire group of people for a game are bad.
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I have found most players from games are friendly in the forums. Seems unreasonable to believe an entire group of people for a game are bad.
Not all. But about 60% of Minecrap players are pure cancer, compared to maybe 1% of DF players. The bigger your community gets, the more cancerous it gets, that's the general rule of thumb.
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Two suggestions:
The largest benefit I have seen happen with other games which add multiplayer is a massive increase in custom mods for new game content.
Within the last five years I have seen a massive increase in the number of games which are clones of dwarf fortress, but with better graphics. I am sure 99% of us will agree Dwarf Fortress is superior to MineCraft... so slightly better graphics would allow this game to explode in popularity.
What are you talking about?
Dwarf Fortress is superior in EVERYTHING!! especially graphics...
I wish that was true... because then Dwarf Fortress gaming community would be closer to the size of the MineCraft gaming community. We all agree Dwarf Fortress is the better game... so what's holding it back from exploding with popularity? Easy way to find the answer... find 10 gamers or more which haven't played the game and after two hours(if they last that long)... ask them "what would improve the game?" With my testing of co-workers, family and friends.... the top three answers were the graphics, the user interface and no multiplayer. It's sort of like finding a sports car with the best engine, best gas mileage, best price value and most reliable yet the outside looks like a 1970s pinto with only three gears.... it's not tough to understand why it's not more successful. The more successful the game the more donations for Toady and more custom content from a growing community.
There's something else games with multiplayer, easy-to-use interface, and a huge following of casuals has .. cheating griefers...
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I have found most players from games are friendly in the forums. Seems unreasonable to believe an entire group of people for a game are bad.
Not all. But about 60% of Minecrap players are pure cancer, compared to maybe 1% of DF players. The bigger your community gets, the more cancerous it gets, that's the general rule of thumb.
Conversely, the smaller your community the more prone it tends to be to sneering elitism, which is far worse than oversaturation
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sneering elitism, which is far worse than oversaturation
How is it worse? It decreases oversaturation and makes the forum more pleasant by removing the filth from it. Sure, elitism scares newcomers off, but a clean community is worth it IMO.
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sneering elitism, which is far worse than oversaturation
How is it worse? It decreases oversaturation and makes the forum more pleasant by removing the filth from it. Sure, elitism scares newcomers off, but a clean community is worth it IMO.
It becomes a community that no-one wants to join. As older members gain new interests (or just die, anything could happen in the next 30 years), the community gets smaller. Less community means less mods, less wiki writers, less people sharing stories of crazy Fun in other forums. Therefore less chance for new people to discover the game.
Possibly less donations to support the work too, but I'm thinking there's not as much of a correlation there as you might expect.
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The thing that disproves your "the community gets smaller over time" argument is the fact that newbies do join. It's just that they're smart enough. I hate oversaturated communities.
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The thing that disproves your "the community gets smaller over time" argument is the fact that newbies do join. It's just that they're smart enough. I hate oversaturated communities.
We're also not a community of elitist dickheads (mostly). Nothing too scary about the DF forum preventing newbies from joining right now.
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Okay then. It's the game itself, I guess, which serves as a filter for newbies.
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Okay then. It's the game itself, I guess, which serves as a filter for newbies.
Yes, the game and it's reputation. We're niche enough already, there's no need to try and 'protect' our safe patch of the Internet with "sneering elitism".
(Agree with not needing graphics in the game as default.)
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I think if they added graphics to the vanilla game it would acctually be harder to understand what's happening
I mean look at those crayon drawings that they make, now immagine that into pixel art form
0_0
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That's pretty much the reason. Also, for both better graphics and multiplayer:
a) Toady is not interested in either.
b) Either would take years to implement.
c) Either would lag like hell.
Neither is worth it.
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I actually enjoy the sneering elitism. Hell, I look down on graphics pack users. Look at those filthy peasants, how low and simple they are. It must be a blessing to have so little to worry about, and so little to worry with! Man, sometimes it hurts my neck, holding up my enormous brain, not to mention the strain on my hips from hoisting my pendulous manhood (because I don't use tilesets) aloft.
Seriously though, the game itself filters out people unwilling to make the effort, and that's the biggest issue - users who make the effort, do the research and consider their contributions will always be preferable to a great horde of, for lack of a better word, casuals.
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Seriously though, the game itself filters out people unwilling to make the effort, and that's the biggest issue - users who make the effort, do the research and consider their contributions will always be preferable to a great horde of, for lack of a better word, casuals.
Exactly. I would not want the forums flooded with "HOW 2 I MAKE MY DWARVEVWES DIG!?!?!??!?!?".
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The question to ask if this a passion-project by Toady because games geared towards the wider audience was lacking something, for example depth or intellectual challenges or whatever else that could alienate "casuals" .. or is Toady doing this to make money?
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Toady is doing it for the art. Donations just speed things along.
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back to the suggestions
I really think toady should fix the path finding, I am really tired of having my mason taking the boulder nearest to HIM instead of the boulder nearest the workshop
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back to the suggestions
I really think toady should fix the path finding, I am really tired of having my mason taking the boulder nearest to HIM instead of the boulder nearest the workshop
That would be a wasted effort. He's getting rid of workshops in favor of zones. From there, it's as simple as prioritizing the materials inside.
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back to the suggestions
I really think toady should fix the path finding, I am really tired of having my mason taking the boulder nearest to HIM instead of the boulder nearest the workshop
That would be a wasted effort. He's getting rid of workshops in favor of zones. From there, it's as simple as prioritizing the materials inside.
wha?! Is that so? I didn't knew that
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back to the suggestions
I really think toady should fix the path finding, I am really tired of having my mason taking the boulder nearest to HIM instead of the boulder nearest the workshop
That would be a wasted effort. He's getting rid of workshops in favor of zones. From there, it's as simple as prioritizing the materials inside.
wha?! Is that so? I didn't knew that
Information on development is all over the place, but yeah, this is mentioned fairly regularly.
Seems like it'll be a big save-breaking change, so either with Mythgen or later with Starting Scenarios (thematically, the latter kind of fits better I suppose as with the bigger space available you'd probably get teams working in worshop zones, perhaps apprentices too).
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Suggestion:
- in the gamelog write "X asked to be a <monster hunter / entertainer> here, request was approved".
- in the gamelog write "We traded X worth of goods to <civ> caravan and got Y worth of items."
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He's getting rid of workshops in favor of zones.
I'm giddy with anticipation of workshops becoming zones instead of buildings... :D
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He's getting rid of workshops in favor of zones.
I'm giddy with anticipation of workshops becoming zones instead of buildings... :D
A tantrum can't destroy a ZONE... .. .. can it? :-P
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Seems like it'll be a big save-breaking change, so either with Mythgen or later with Starting Scenarios (thematically, the latter kind of fits better I suppose as with the bigger space available you'd probably get teams working in worshop zones, perhaps apprentices too).
It could end up being with the Economy, though.
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Seems like it'll be a big save-breaking change, so either with Mythgen or later with Starting Scenarios (thematically, the latter kind of fits better I suppose as with the bigger space available you'd probably get teams working in worshop zones, perhaps apprentices too).
It could end up being with the Economy, though.
And just to finish up...Moving Fortress Parts would be a fair place to add them in too, what with all the redesign of fortress bits and pieces.
So, sometime in the next 20 years, almost certainly after a major save-breaking release.
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He's getting rid of workshops in favor of zones.
I'm giddy with anticipation of workshops becoming zones instead of buildings... :D
A tantrum can't destroy a ZONE... .. .. can it? :-P
But it can destroy the objects inside the zone.
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I wonder how that zoning would work? I really hope it doesn't take away player choice.
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I wonder how that zoning would work? I really hope it doesn't take away player choice.
Choice of what?
A zone workshop is just a flexibly sized workshop which you can assign tools and workers to, isn't it? What are you worried about specifically?
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-Mechanisms are connected remotely.
Remote controlled mechanisms are already a thing. They are actually little radio transmitters/recievers.
-Drawbridge does not require a bit of power to lift. This applies to many other mechanisms, such as floodgate, doors, hatches and lifting bars.
No power is needed to lift a drawbridge, you just attach it to a lever using a mechanism.
-The temperature under the ground. The temperature under the ground never changes.
Why would it? The temperature underground should increase as you get deeper, but currently it does not.
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-Mechanisms are connected remotely.
Remote controlled mechanisms are already a thing. They are actually little radio transmitters/recievers.
Radio transmitters did not exist in the 1400s.
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Radio transmitters did not exist in the 1400s.
That is the joke.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/593186617856118784/LG1KN-Q4_400x400.png)
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-Mechanisms are connected remotely.
Remote controlled mechanisms are already a thing. They are actually little radio transmitters/recievers.
-Drawbridge does not require a bit of power to lift. This applies to many other mechanisms, such as floodgate, doors, hatches and lifting bars.
No power is needed to lift a drawbridge, you just attach it to a lever using a mechanism.
-The temperature under the ground. The temperature under the ground never changes.
Why would it? The temperature underground should increase as you get deeper, but currently it does not.
The OP is very poorly formatted and unclear, but im pretty sure they intended to mean that these and some other similar things are problems to be fixed rather than suggestions to implement