Post by: Kyzrati on March 24, 2012, 12:03:24 pm
You are a prototype for a form of highly intelligent artificial life capable of quickly interfacing with and learning from the surrounding environment to evolve over time. You are the Cogmind. Build and rebuild yourself as you destroy the Overmind's thralls to escape the subterranean robot city in this sci-fi dungeon romp.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
So, I've been less busy working on X@COM than I should have lately. Blame the 7DRL contest (http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php/7DRL_Contest_2012), then thank it, because it led to the birth of Cogmind!
Because Cogmind is based on the X@COM code, the two naturally look similar (but play completely differently). Notable Features:
- Particle engine for animated ASCII effects (weapons/explosions etc.)
- Animated interface with sound effects
- Fully destructible terrain
- Partial mouse support (full keyboard support)
- Most data loaded from text files
- Ongoing high score competition
The 7DRL release had a few interface bugs, which I've sorted out with a fresh bugfix release. Check out more screenshots and information on the blog: http://cogmindrl.blogspot.com/ (http://cogmindrl.blogspot.com/)
Get it now to join the high score competition!
Post by: MonkeyHead on March 24, 2012, 12:13:47 pm
Post by: Dariush on March 24, 2012, 01:23:59 pm
What are Coverage and Support parameters for propulsion items? Also, how do you get more slots? And what does heat affect?
Post by: Frumple on March 24, 2012, 01:39:24 pm
At least some slots (Inventory, if nothing else) can be gained via installing some utility items. Not sure about weapons/engines/etc. Help or manual or something mentions "evolving," but blazes if I know what that entails.
Not sure about coverage and support. I think I had figured it out at one point, but have since forgotten. Probably has something to do with the other stuff installed getting damaged and how much weight slows you down, or something.
Post by: MonkeyHead on March 24, 2012, 02:39:52 pm
Ion engine, Aluminium legs. Got to level 2 before being mobbed by soldiers. My response - break out the grenade launcher, and rapidly run out of useable matter. Must be more liberal with heavy weapons in the future.
Evolving is sort of "levelling up", where you can expand some slots, allowing for more gunz or toys.
Post by: mattie2009 on March 24, 2012, 04:44:26 pm
I keep getting swarmed by soldiers who go "HEY DAWG I HEARD YOU LIKE LIVING, SO LET ME SHOOT YOUR WEAPONS BECAUSE IT'S NOT FAIR FOR YOU TO BE ABLE TO SHOOT ME BACK" and then they crit my weapon systems while I somehow hit everything that isn't them.
Post by: MonkeyHead on March 24, 2012, 04:48:40 pm
Post by: Kyzrati on March 24, 2012, 07:20:44 pm
The game isn't very easy on beginners, but once you get the hang of it you should be able to beat the first few levels without much difficulty. Beyond that you'll have to start developing effective strategies to survive. I've still only made it to level 6 myself. Highest score is 9453 (Don't be discouraged though, obviously I know a lot about the game :)
I keep getting swarmed by soldiers who go "HEY DAWG I HEARD YOU LIKE LIVING, SO LET ME SHOOT YOUR WEAPONS BECAUSE IT'S NOT FAIR FOR YOU TO BE ABLE TO SHOOT ME BACK" and then they crit my weapon systems while I somehow hit everything that isn't them.Lots of things you can do about that:
-fight enemies up close to increase hit%
-always carry extra weapons, because it sucks not to have any
-make sure you have as many parts equipped as possible, to decrease the likelihood of losing weapons (attaching parts mid-battle is essential!)
-later on you can equip targeting computers to increase hit%
-look at the components of the hit calculation (listed in manual.txt) for a better idea of what kinds of factors affect your aim
I find having a lazer or assualt rifle is useful for when stealthing around taking out lone enemies is useful, along with a deactivated rocket launcher or grenade launcher for when lots of enemies feel like runing your day.Yep, that's what I do, carry around an extra launcher for the groups (but I usually wait until I have three weapon slots--before that you can usually fight groups around a corner and kill them one by one if you're fast enough)
Heat gets too high you'll shut down for a bit.When you make it to later parts of the game, you'll find that overheating has a wide range of other nasty effects as well, depending on how hot you are. It's hard to overheat in the early game, since nothing produces much more heat than you can naturally dissipate. After a few levels you'll need to consider using heat sinks and cooling systems depending on your build.
Not sure about coverage and support. I think I had figured it out at one point, but have since forgotten.It's covered in the manual, but there's no example (and it probably needs one) so here it is:
"Each part has a "coverage" rating which determines its likeliness to be hit by an incoming attack. Values are relative, so attacks are weighted towards hitting parts with higher coverage. Robot cores also have their own "exposure" rating which determines their likeliness to be hit; this value is considered along with part coverage when determining whether an attack will strike the core. The exact chance of a core/part to be hit is shown in parenthesis after its rating on the relevant info screen." (manual.txt)
Ex 1: Cogmind's core has an exposure of 100. Say you equip only one part, a weapon which also has a coverage of 100. Their total value is 200 (100+100), so if you are hit by a projectile, each one has a 50% (100/200) chance to be hit.
Ex 2: You have the following parts attached:
-Ion Engine (60)
-Light Treads (70)
-Light Treads (70)
-Medium Laser (100)
-Light Assault Rifle (100)
With your core (100), the total is 440, so the chance to hit each part is:
-Ion Engine: 60/440=13.6%
-Light Treads: 70/440=15.9% (each)
-Medium Laser: 100/440=22.7%
-Light Assault Rifle: 100/440=22.7%
-Core: 100/440=22.7%
Enemy robots work the same way, of course, so the more parts you blow off, the more likely you are to hit and destroy their core.
Armor plating has a very high coverage, so it's more likely to be hit, while tiny utilities such as embedded processors have very low coverage, so you can expect them to last much longer (unless you have little or nothing else covering you, so keep covered!!!).
As you progress, your core will become more and more protected by attached parts (b/c you'll have many more of them...), but by that time there are other dangers you'll find out about...
Post by: raptorfangamer on March 24, 2012, 07:49:20 pm
Post by: Kyzrati on March 24, 2012, 08:03:17 pm
I was going to limit the amount of digging they're allowed to do so you don't think they're going to uncover something for you, but then I thought it was a neat opportunity to see the map generator in progress if you want to hang around.
Others should take note about this. Take what you want from the scrapyard and leave!
Post by: mattie2009 on March 24, 2012, 08:08:25 pm
>Get EMP Blaster at the end of level 1
>Go test it out
>Shoot wasp with EMP blaster; It hits the wall behind it and explodes in an EM blast, destroying it in one shot
>Cue "Hell yes" face
>Second wasp pops out of doorway, critting the blaster and destroying it instantly
Hahahahahaha, kill me.
Post by: Kyzrati on March 24, 2012, 08:24:07 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on March 24, 2012, 09:33:38 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The secret to my success: The Tactical Withdrawl. It's actually quite easy to run away from swarms. Two tips: Legs are the best movement type, and avoid being overloaded. That Gravity Neutralizing Apperatus I'm packing is by far my greatest item (it boosts mass support by 20).
Post by: quintin522 on March 24, 2012, 09:42:15 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on March 24, 2012, 09:49:28 pm
Post by: Kyzrati on March 24, 2012, 11:10:52 pm
I managed to get to stage 6-Factory, but with few itemsNice job making it to level 6! Entering a new level can be risky if you've got nothing left, but I suppose you had no choice, eh? ;) You did it pretty quickly, too--I spent almost 5000 turns on my last run to 6.
"Tactical retreats" are definitely key to survival in a lot of situations. In fact, your post-game record sheet records the number of said "tactical retreats" you managed during your game. You can even play with a complete stealth build aimed at avoiding and shaking enemies if you find the right utilities.
Just want to say your RL engine is amazing. ASCII particle effects are beautiful things. And I can't wait for the next X@COM release.Nor can I... (though I shouldn't be the one waiting, now should I :P)
Thanks for the comment. I wish I had more time to play with the particle engine for Cogmind, but I barely made a playable game within the 7DRL time limit, so no new effects :(
Post by: Sergius on March 25, 2012, 12:56:56 am
Also, posting to follow.
Post by: MonkeyHead on March 25, 2012, 02:20:08 am
Oh, also, HUGE storage units are a must for maximum flexebility and carrying plenty of spare parts.
Post by: Kyzrati on March 25, 2012, 02:29:15 am
Game crashed as the text reporting this came in...Damn, that's one thing I didn't test well but left on the list to do later... Destroying your own stuff with explosions might be a problem in rare cases. I'll test it soon and if I find something, upload a fix.
Cogmind having been a contest rush job, it's code isn't exactly the quality I'd normally prefer...
Oh, also, HUGE storage units are a must for maximum flexebility and carrying plenty of spare parts.Storage units are the single most useful item in the game, IMO.
EDIT: I looked into it, but I just can't get the game to crash, even when I give myself tons of missiles and blow the crap out of myself and everything else... Guess I'll just have to keep playing and hope I run across it.
Post by: Kyzrati on March 25, 2012, 03:38:46 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX8YVJCdLFQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX8YVJCdLFQ)
Far from the smartest game on my part, but I was trying to race through as fast as possible to make the video shorter while still allowing viewers to see every step of the way...
Post by: Dariush on March 25, 2012, 04:32:53 am
Post by: Kyzrati on March 25, 2012, 04:46:37 am
Post by: EuchreJack on March 25, 2012, 05:45:02 am
Post by: Kyzrati on March 25, 2012, 06:08:50 am
I've been sitting here trying to cause bugs to debug the rare issues that seem to be popping up, and I can't find squat. I've equipped myself with a huge number of cannons and am firing all of them at a never ending stream of engineers trying to repair the carnage I'm causing. No luck, but it sure looks cool ;)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Farce on March 25, 2012, 08:17:32 am
I think I'm doing something wrong, but I don't know what.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on March 25, 2012, 09:01:19 am
Post by: mattie2009 on March 25, 2012, 09:11:26 am
Is there a list of controls somewhere? For now I'm just looking for the one that lets me unequip things, if it even excists.Press F1.
It's Ctrl-LMB, just to save you two seconds.
Post by: Kyzrati on March 25, 2012, 09:13:28 am
Arrrgh, so hard. I apparently keep missing everything I shoot at even at point-blank, because things rarely die without 5+ turns of shooting at them. Meanwhile all my components are getting destroyed, and humongous swarms of soldiers, swarms and defenders chase me unshakably through the entire level.Fleeing into unexplored areas is dangerous. There are some strategy hints in the manual. I might do a more in-depth play guide / tutorial some time (maybe even a video tut), but then, learning how to do all those things can be half the fun.
I think I'm doing something wrong, but I don't know what.
As a side note, shotgun-type weapons are awesome for short range, if you can find some. I once had 3 heavy shotguns... could take out almost anything in one volley. Not much left to salvage after you hit someone with that kind of firepower, but it's fun ;)
Post by: MonkeyHead on March 25, 2012, 10:06:09 am
Post by: 10ebbor10 on March 25, 2012, 10:20:28 am
Also, I hate those faulty prototypes.
I was chased by guards, no weapons and then I see a weapon lying on the ground. I pick it up, it turns out to be faulty and overheats my reactor.
Post by: mendonca on March 25, 2012, 10:25:11 am
Post by: sluissa on March 25, 2012, 10:35:30 am
Post by: Kyzrati on March 25, 2012, 10:53:30 am
Specifics:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Posting to follow, and to remind me to play this soon. Sounds cool.Hi mendonca, was wondering when you'd show up ;)
Post by: tompliss on March 25, 2012, 02:34:42 pm
The weapon variety provides tons of fun : destroying the environment, splashing EMPs, firing at long range, ...
About that, I think you a little bit more infos about weapons we pick up should be a nice idea.
Also, seeing a little more what are the weapons' effects on the ennemis (overheating, corrupting, directly on-screen, with flashing effects, maybe ? ) may be nice.
Post by: Sensei on March 25, 2012, 05:06:56 pm
Post by: Draxis on March 25, 2012, 06:00:38 pm
http://tnypic.net/b61b1.png (http://tnypic.net/b61b1.png)
Post by: raptorfangamer on March 25, 2012, 07:41:24 pm
-snip-
"CRAPYARD
NONE
ESCAPE"
wat.
I love that kind of graphical bugs.
what did the bots build after that?
Post by: Draxis on March 25, 2012, 07:55:10 pm
Post by: Kyzrati on March 25, 2012, 09:00:00 pm
Surprising that the window went entirely black, though the infinite sound loop is a side-effect of the animation not finishing--normally if you just press F10 (suicide/restart) it'll reload the windows and all, and the sound will end normally.
Thanks for the report.
Score progress update: So far I've received 2 high score files. Both have been added to the list. There you can also look at a player's record sheet to see more specific stats.
Post by: AlStar on March 25, 2012, 09:09:38 pm
Got to level 7, and was doing great, but ran into several Behemoths backed by Hunters, who just started ripping me into pieces, since I'd gone through all 2 or 3 armor modules the level before and hadn't managed to find any new ones.
According to the game, my 'peak state' was:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Which I more or less agree with, although this is after I'd lost my armor, so not too long before I started bleeding modules.
I think, by far, the most useful upgrade slots are Utility, followed by Power, Propulsion, and only then Weapons. Utility items, especially storage units and armor plating, are just so damn useful that you really can't progress without them. Weapons, on the other hand, just keep getting more powerful, and if you can pick up a targeting unit (another utility slot) you'll be killing things more than fast enough.
Post by: Kyzrati on March 25, 2012, 11:18:06 pm
And as you say, just a couple weapons combined with targeting computers (which you can take from Hunters) is actually pretty deadly. Still, later in the game it can help to be able to fire a huge volley of weapons for taking out stubbornly powerful enemies (read: Behemoths), especially if those weapons are all electromagnetic... Statistically speaking, it would be hard to quickly take down a behemoth with only a few weapons, no matter how good your aim is.
Post by: Knirisk on March 25, 2012, 11:31:57 pm
I used up all three, each of them getting destroyed by the onslaught of Pests. Then I pulled out my EM Blaster and started obliterating everything.
Ended up dying later on.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Orb on March 26, 2012, 08:48:03 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
On a more serious note...look at Value destroyed. Bug? Or are walls made of diamond in the future? You decide!
Post by: Gigalith on March 26, 2012, 09:06:34 am
Post by: Dariush on March 26, 2012, 11:12:08 am
BTW, I found a bug: if I make the game fullscreen and use Tab to scroll through targets, they are incorrectly offset.
Post by: BigD145 on March 26, 2012, 11:31:20 am
Post by: Dariush on March 26, 2012, 11:33:21 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Really, what can I do now (no explosive weapons)? :(
Post by: AlStar on March 26, 2012, 11:44:38 am
Really, what can I do now (no explosive weapons)? :(
Wait around and hope the game spawns some hunters on you? They've got explosive weapons, and the sensors to try and peg you through walls.
Otherwise, I'd go with F10.
Edit: And this is why we don't try to move around with 18% speed. Ouch - did you just get your legs shot off before that happened?
Post by: Dariush on March 26, 2012, 01:16:49 pm
Post by: Toaster on March 26, 2012, 01:55:53 pm
Am I missing something with the flight units? The speed's nice, but carrying practically anything is a pain.
How would a stealth build work?
Post by: jester on March 26, 2012, 02:15:52 pm
Post by: Knirisk on March 26, 2012, 03:15:32 pm
Am I missing something with the flight units? The speed's nice, but carrying practically anything is a pain.
How would a stealth build work?
I agree on both accounts. I assume flight units are generally used for stealth/pacifist builds because decent weapons are around 2-4 weight each. I haven't seen a cloaking device yet either, but I found an ECM suite, which made some enemies a bit fiddly with spotting me, depending on how far away they are.
In any case, I don't think a stealth build would work all that well by virtue of the corridors in the game.
EDIT: Okay, Hover Units are really fast. Like, really really fast. I'm carrying only a light ion engine, but I'm moving at 222% speed when not overweight. Picked up two light assault rifles at the start. Let's see how well this goes. My mass is maxed out at light ion engine, terrain scanner, 2 hover units, and 2 light assault rifles, though.
What. I start a lightweight build and the moment I get out of the scrapyard, I find a huge storage unit. Argh, but Jesus, I'm fast. I'm evading bolts left and right.
Post by: MonkeyHead on March 26, 2012, 03:29:06 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I spent most of the time using flight units and ballistic weapons. Granted, they (as in propulsion and weapons) were either Prototypes or Imp/Adv modules, and I did switch to legs for an odd bit of tanking when keeping my distance and sniping didnt work. Do targeting modules stack? I spent some time with 2 of them equipped and didnt see an immediate improvement. This run was seriously helped by finding a stack of 5 huge storage units, so gear was never a problem until my demise...
Didnt let the bastards take me out after they surrounded me, and blasting my way out with a prototype rocket battery didnt work.
Post by: EuchreJack on March 26, 2012, 05:31:45 pm
I also avoid fitting the huge inventory storage for just such reasons as show by the 18% move speed. :P
Post by: trees on March 26, 2012, 07:23:10 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on March 26, 2012, 07:50:02 pm
Am I missing something with the flight units? The speed's nice, but carrying practically anything is a pain.
How would a stealth build work?
I agree on both accounts. I assume flight units are generally used for stealth/pacifist builds because decent weapons are around 2-4 weight each. I haven't seen a cloaking device yet either, but I found an ECM suite, which made some enemies a bit fiddly with spotting me, depending on how far away they are.
In any case, I don't think a stealth build would work all that well by virtue of the corridors in the game.
EDIT: Okay, Hover Units are really fast. Like, really really fast. I'm carrying only a light ion engine, but I'm moving at 222% speed when not overweight. Picked up two light assault rifles at the start. Let's see how well this goes. My mass is maxed out at light ion engine, terrain scanner, 2 hover units, and 2 light assault rifles, though.
What. I start a lightweight build and the moment I get out of the scrapyard, I find a huge storage unit. Argh, but Jesus, I'm fast. I'm evading bolts left and right.
Pick up a mini grenade launcher if you can. It's a launcher weapon with a weight of one. It may be a prototype launcher. Remember that items in inventory don't count towards weight. Carry a backup light ion engine, those hovers take a lot of juice to run. Good luck, show us what hover can do!
Post by: Kyzrati on March 26, 2012, 08:58:15 pm
Victory! No one can beat that score! 8)Oops, I'm pretty sure I know where that came from. I'll find and correct it in the next fix.
On a more serious note...look at Value destroyed. Bug? Or are walls made of diamond in the future? You decide!
BTW, I can confirm the crash resulting from self-destructing cannons. And in my first Factory run too. :(Sorry about that, I thought I'd tested that situation already. Sure seems like there's potential for a bug there. I'll fix it in the next release, too. Probably later today. Thanks for the reports and confirmation guys!
Yeah, those little bastards are fast at rebuilding. Hunters don't start to gradually appear until level 3, so there's pretty much no way out of that situation before then unless you can shoot your own way out. It's true that on later levels you could theoretically wait for a Hunter to track you down, but by then you might have a crapload of Programmers waiting around the area.Really, what can I do now (no explosive weapons)? :(Wait around and hope the game spawns some hunters on you? They've got explosive weapons, and the sensors to try and peg you through walls.
BTW, I found a bug: if I make the game fullscreen and use Tab to scroll through targets, they are incorrectly offset.Thanks for the report. I didn't have a chance to actually test fullscreen mode at all yet. I'll fix it for the next release.
About the whole fast/stealth build concept, it is 1) probably more viable in the mid- to late-game, and 2) best done with specialized equipment.
In the early game, hover is probably more effective than flight because there isn't much you can do to help offset the weight of the weapons and equipment you need to carry. But really there aren't a lot of reliable sources of hover units until you hit level 4 (Programmers--before that it's just Watchers).
If you manage to find prototype flight units, you will be in heaven--they are both faster and carry twice as much weight as normal flight units. 222% speed from a couple hover units is nothing--with several advanced flight units you can hit 400% and beyond! By then you can move 8-12 spaces every time the enemy fires at you, and will be hard as hell to hit.
Other parts that help with flight:
-Light-type engines (store little energy, but don't weigh as much)
-Early on you can harvest weight redistributors from Haulers
-Get a Gravity Neutralizing Apparatus around level 5--later on find a Quantum Shading Machine or Dimensional Manipulator and you are set for life (no one's gotten that far yet, though)
Stealth-wise, you need good sensor arrays and signal interpreters (steal from Watchers) to avoid dangerous robots, followed by ECM (have to get lucky for these) for fleeing, then terrain scanners and processors if you have the space. Later on adding Cloaking Devices (higher-level Hunters carry them) will help.
Do targeting modules stack? I spent some time with 2 of them equipped and didnt see an immediate improvement.Yep, they *do* stack. You can even get >100% hit chance if you have enough of them. If you were using the basic version, they only add 4% each, so the effects are not as immediately noticeable, especially with all the factors that go into hit calculations (which cause them to fluctuate a little each turn, making small bonuses harder to spot). The prototype targeting computer is ridiculously awesome, if you can find one that isn't broken (level 5+).
Post by: Dariush on March 27, 2012, 04:43:39 am
Post by: Kyzrati on March 27, 2012, 05:50:13 am
I don't understand the '* +3%/cell if range > 6' line in the manual. Larger range is supposed to decrease accuracy, isn't it?...Um... yeah... I wrote the manual too quickly :-[ Don't worry, the game code is correct. Manual updated for next version.
Also, it would be nice to have a detailed hitting and missing log.Hm, does everyone really want that much extra text filling the message log? Perhaps not all hits/misses, but instead just a summary of your own volleys? Enemy hits on you are apparent because your parts lose integrity. So maybe you fire and it says something like: "Volley (3): 2 misses, 1 hit"
And could you please make fullscreen increase the usable space instead of just putting a black border around the field?I wish I could, but keep in mind that the game was made in only a week, so I made a huge number of assumptions in order to cut down coding time to leave time for making the game more fun. One of those assumptions was that the window size wouldn't change. I could go back through and fix that, but it wouldn't be part of a quick fix.
Post by: Dariush on March 27, 2012, 06:54:04 am
Hm, does everyone really want that much extra text filling the message log? Perhaps not all hits/misses, but instead just a summary of your own volleys? Enemy hits on you are apparent because your parts lose integrity. So maybe you fire and it says something like: "Volley (3): 2 misses, 1 hit"Er, integrity changes aren't all that evident unless you're specifically watching the equipped parts, so yeah. Besides, it would be nice to know when your shots are simply hitting some unimportant part and when they're actually missing. So I'd prefer as much details as possible. :) Maybe you should make a poll about it?
I wish I could, but keep in mind that the game was made in only a week, so I made a huge number of assumptions in order to cut down coding time to leave time for making the game more fun. One of those assumptions was that the window size wouldn't change. I could go back through and fix that, but it wouldn't be part of a quick fix.Well, then remove the fullscreen entirely. In it's current state it's completely useless.
Post by: EuchreJack on March 27, 2012, 07:10:10 am
Also, it would be nice to have a detailed hitting and missing log.Hm, does everyone really want that much extra text filling the message log? Perhaps not all hits/misses, but instead just a summary of your own volleys? Enemy hits on you are apparent because your parts lose integrity. So maybe you fire and it says something like: "Volley (3): 2 misses, 1 hit"
A toggle might be nice, to test out new weapon configurations.
Post by: Dariush on March 27, 2012, 07:26:12 am
Also, for some reason with the following status I keep losing 6 energy every turn. Whyyy. :(
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Kyzrati on March 27, 2012, 07:27:11 am
A toggle might be nice, to test out new weapon configurations.Good idea, adding it right now. There'll be four levels of detail you can cycle through, from the current default down to specifics for every weapon fired.
Well, then remove the fullscreen entirely. In it's current state it's completely useless.It was originally an experimental addition to the engine for X@COM. I accidentally removed the "not fully implemented" comment from its description, thinking I had finished it some time ago. Just don't use it for now.
Fix3 is on the way.
Post by: Dariush on March 27, 2012, 07:36:36 am
Aaaand by the way, please add the ability to also display hits and misses on the player.
Post by: Drakale on March 27, 2012, 08:47:43 am
Post by: Toaster on March 27, 2012, 09:04:10 am
Post by: Kyzrati on March 27, 2012, 09:09:14 am
From the changelog:
* FIX: Firing a multi-weapon volley in which you destroy a one of your own weapons after it is fired no longer crashes the game
* FIX: Player does not receive ridiculous number of points for killing self
* FIX: Tab-cycling through robots/items works in fullscreen mode
* FIX: FOV updated for each shot in a volley if necessary
* MOD: Faulty prototypes show red in parts/inventory lists
* NEW: Optionally increase combat details shown in the log
So it turns out I didn't find the destroy-your-own-weapon bug earlier because it required that you fire a multi-weapon volley, destroying one of the weapons you had already fired before, before the bug would actually happen. FIXED, finally...
You can try out the new combat output. By default it's OFF, so you'll have to press 'q' to cycle through the options and get what you want. Not sure the format is all that great, and it's a bit verbose for the small log area, but at least you'll get the info you've been wanting.
As usual, all the older "fix" versions are still valid for the high score competition, but the latest version is highly recommended since it is less likely to crash.
Love the game. Have anyone managed to make a successful combat efficient flying robot? With the weight limits, I have to few parts to survive any engagement. It's pretty easy to just breeze through levels with it though.Flying robots are generally not going to be truly combat efficient. That would take a lot of prototype parts, some of which you can't find until the later levels.
How exactly do propulsion stats work? Treads have 100 speed and flight units have 35, but that doesn't seem right. Also, what are 'mod/extra' and 'penalty' parameters?The "speed" stat should really be renamed. It refers to the amount of time units it requires to move one cell, so unburdened flight at 35 is about 3x as fast as treads (100). Lower = better (as it describes in the manual).
"Mod/extra" means "mod per extra", or speed modifier for each extra unit beyond the first. So a +5 for treads means they actually get slower with extra treads, but can carry much more and are therefore less likely to be penalized for weight. Hover/flight have negative modifiers, so they always get faster as you attach more.
The "penalty" is the speed penalty (+X) for being overweight. It is applied once if you are overweight, and more times again for each "support amount" you are overweight beyond that. Ex: Light treads speed = 100, support = 10, and penalty = 20. You can carry up to 10 weight without being penalized, but if you carry 11, your speed value is increased to 120 (takes more time to move one cell). Carrying <= 19 weight is all that same speed. As soon as you carry 20+, your speed is again penalized (+20), so then it's 140. It'll keep penalizing you the more you go overweight, but only in intervals equal to the base support value.
When a bot sends a distress signal, does that spawn more guards or just cause nearby ones to close in to that point?A message about a "distress signal" means it has notified some nearby combat robots.
A message about "calling reinforcements" means it has called new robots into the level (always through stairs) and given them your exact position. (Think twice before attacking escorted Haulers.)
Post by: Dariush on March 27, 2012, 09:15:11 am
The "penalty" is the speed penalty (+X) for being overweight. It is applied once if you are overweight, and more times again for each "support amount" you are overweight beyond that. Ex: Light treads speed = 100, support = 10, and penalty = 20. You can carry up to 10 weight without being penalized, but if you carry 11, your speed value is increased to 120 (takes more time to move one cell). Carrying <= 19 weight is all that same speed. As soon as you carry 20+, your speed is again penalized (+20), so then it's 140. It'll keep penalizing you the more you go overweight, but only in intervals equal to the base support value.Oh. Manual entry pleeease?
Also, how exactly do enemies get player's position? Do they know the whole level at all times? How do they track the player? Is their field of view the same as the player's? Can they not see the player if the player sees them? Do they use some non-visual spotting? Can enemies interact with each other apart from distress signal sending?
And some miscellanous questions:
1) How does recoil work?
2) What is the base chance of hitting before all the bonuses in the manual are applied?
3) Something is wrong with the energy (and possibly also heat and matter) calculation. For example, in the screenshot below the total energy should be positive. However, every time I move, 6 energy for movement is substracted, but nothing is added and no upkeep is substracted. The last two changes are only applied every several turns (every 5, judging by my speed).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
5) What does weapon's 'time' parameter affect?
6) What's the movement speed and penalty of the core? (i.e. if I'm moving without any propulsion)
Really, a detailed description of every parameter in the manual would be epic.
EDIT: Ok, downloaded. First impressions: YAY LOG. Second: argh, not sufficiently detailed. Maybe add displaying which parts are hit? Also, display of specific hit bonuses would be awesome. And the salvage modifiers in the volley display. But the parts display is the top priority, along with the chance of hitting the hit part.
EDIT2: What.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
EDIT3: Also, please add an option to remove the matrix-style text loading when viewing descriptions. Makes comparing different items' stats a pain.
EDIT4: Could you please add an option to scrap the unhelpful speed in percentages and instead use the time per tile? And add some way to get the speed of enemies.
EDIT5: Maybe you should add a second accuracy rating to explosive weapons - a chance to hit with the explosion (not a direct hit)?
Post by: Drakale on March 27, 2012, 09:57:00 am
Post by: Toaster on March 27, 2012, 10:08:40 am
Post by: The Merchant Of Menace on March 27, 2012, 10:43:05 am
Post by: Toaster on March 27, 2012, 10:43:55 am
Post by: Kyzrati on March 27, 2012, 10:49:47 am
Holy fuck, that was fast. Downloading right now. You're awesome, Kyzrati. :DOf course I'm fast, how else could I have made this game in 7 days? ;)
Also, how exactly do enemies get player's position? Do they know the whole level at all times? How do they track the player? Is their field of view the same as the player's? Can they not see the player if the player sees them? Do they use some non-visual spotting? Can enemies interact with each other apart from distress signal sending?My, my, so full of questions! ;D
I'd prefer to not give out too many specifics on how AI operates, since I don't want players gaming the system. Some of the more obvious things you'd figure out eventually though:
-Yes, they use the same sort of FOV as you, though ranges vary, so having a longer visual range than them gives you an advantage. As is, some enemies have a longer visual range than your default. I was considering adding some sort of visual cue indicating whether a given robot has noticed, but didn't get a chance to do that yet. I also think that might be going too far into the realm of knowing stuff you shouldn't necessarily know. Logically speaking it makes sense with creatures, but not always with robots.
-Most enemies know about you only when they see you, and only notify allies who are within their alert range, which varies by robot. Watchers should always be a top kill priority because they have a huge alert range and can call enemies from all over the place to come get you! You don't want a Watcher class robot running around spotting you every few turns and alerting all his friends... They always follow set patrol paths, though, so if you have sensors which can distinguish robots out of view you can avoid them pretty easily.
Okay, you already know too much!
And some miscellanous questions:Thanks for all the questions. I do want to put all the stats and more explanations in the manual, because it really is a lot of them. I'll get around to it.
1) How does recoil work?
2) What is the base chance of hitting before all the bonuses in the manual are applied?
3) Something is wrong with the energy (and possibly also heat and matter) calculation. For example, in the screenshot below the total energy should be positive. However, every time I move, 6 energy for movement is substracted, but nothing is added and no upkeep is substracted. The last two changes are only applied every several turns (every 5, judging by my speed).4) What do engine's rating and heat stability affect?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
5) What does weapon's 'time' parameter affect?
6) What's the movement speed and penalty of the core? (i.e. if I'm moving without any propulsion)
Really, a detailed description of every parameter in the manual would be epic.
1) -X% to all *other* weapons' hit chance in the same volley
2) 60%
3) 500% movement, wow... About the energy, as Drakale says, it's not as much an error in the calculation as it is an inaccurate way to display the information. Power is only generated once per turn, and movement at a rate > 200% would mean 2+ moves each time you generate power. I hadn't really thought of that effect when I wrote the status screen (or even did the stats, for that matter). I should multiply the values shown, I guess, though that could be somewhat annoying since it will fluctuate a lot more based on your changing speed. Maybe put both pieces of information...
4) All items have a rating--it's just the game's name for their "level", a way to quickly compare which items are probably better than others. Heat stability is the %chance an engine will not shutdown when it overheats.
5) Time it takes to fire that weapon. 200 is the base time it takes to fire.
6) Core speed=50, penalty=50, support=3, energy cost=1, heat=0
EDIT: Ok, downloaded. First impressions: YAY LOG. Second: argh, not sufficiently detailed. Maybe add displaying which parts are hit? Also, display of specific hit bonuses would be awesome. And the salvage modifiers in the volley display. But the parts display is the top priority, along with the chance of hitting the hit part.I guess I could add which parts are hit, and yeah, the weapon-specific bonuses would be a nice addition, but I wanted to try and avoid each line from getting too long though, since there are so many. Chance of hitting the hit part, too, hm... You want a lot of info. Almost sounds like you want to debug the game! 8) The log is way small for all this...
Salvage mod in volley display is a good idea, so long as it fits under all situations. I'll check.
EDIT2: What.I'm sure there's a logical explanation for that. I'll have to find it. I haven't actually played with the new log info yet.How did I destroy him after a miss?... BTW, different colors for the player's and enemies' misses would be awesome.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
...(10 seconds later)...
Yeah, now that I think of it, you "missed" but still managed to hit him with the randomized miss trajectory. It's called luck! The text is determined by whether or not you failed your hit roll, not whether you actually hit your intended target or not.
EDIT3: Also, please add an option to remove the matrix-style text loading when viewing descriptions. Makes comparing different items' stats a pain.I could do that. It'd be low on the priority list for now though.
EDIT4: Could you please add an option to scrap the unhelpful speed in percentages and instead use the time per tile? And add some way to get the speed of enemies.I think the percentages are more helpful for the average player, since most aren't calculating out the details (nor do I). An option would be okay, but then the stats would also need to be renamed under each option so that they make sense.
Post by: Toaster on March 27, 2012, 10:51:31 am
And they're sweet weapons besides!
Post by: Dariush on March 27, 2012, 11:01:46 am
5) Time it takes to fire that weapon. 200 is the base time it takes to fire.So the weapons in a volley get their times summed, but get a little less due to the volley effect?
Also, yay bugs.
1) When an enemy fires from outside FOV, his shots aren't reported in the log;
2) Faulty prototypes are auto-identified.
3) A prototype wheel turned out to be... a wheel. :(
Post by: Kyzrati on March 27, 2012, 11:10:22 am
Yep. Volley fire times:5) Time it takes to fire that weapon. 200 is the base time it takes to fire.So the weapons in a volley get their times summed, but get a little less due to the volley effect?
#weps time
1 200
2 325
3 425
4 475
5 525
6 550
7 575
8 595
9 615
10 625
As you can see, firing a huge volley has its advantages. You can fire 10 times as many weapons for only 3 times the time cost.
Also, yay bugs.Actually, neither of those are bugs ;D
1) When an enemy fires from outside FOV, his shots aren't reported in the log;
2) Faulty prototypes are auto-identified.
1) I did that on purpose since you can't see who is firing. I could have given partial info, but decided not to do that yet.
2) Faulty prototypes are supposed to be auto-identified. Once you've identified a prototype once, you can tell which of them are faulty or not. I wonder if I should change that now, but that was the intention from the start.
Post by: Dariush on March 27, 2012, 11:17:12 am
Yep. Volley fire times:Yaaay. Manual entry please? Oh, and BTW, how does time parameter affect this table? Is it flat bonus/penalty applied to the total volley fire time? (also, please rename it to something like delay or something ;))
#weps time
As you can see, firing a huge volley has its advantages. You can fire 10 times as many weapons for only 3 times the time cost.
1) I did that on purpose since you can't see who is firing. I could have given partial info, but decided not to do that yet.But can we at least see whether it hit or missed and which part it hit? :(
3) A prototype wheel turned out to be... a wheel. :( A plain, unmodified wheeeeeeeeeeeel. :'(
Nevermind.
EDIT: Oh, and could you add an option to edit the order of weapon firing without manually taking them off and reputting on in a different order?
EDIT2:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Unrelated edit:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Drakale on March 27, 2012, 11:34:40 am
Post by: Dariush on March 27, 2012, 11:36:40 am
Post by: AlStar on March 27, 2012, 11:48:08 am
Unrelated edit: So this is how being completely, utterly fucked feels...
At least your enemies had the decency to move out of the doorway.
I had a good run going that ended rather abruptly when I fled into a room, only to find there was no way out. 300% speed won't help you when there are half a dozen enemies sitting in the doorway shooting at you and you don't have enough power to fire back.
In other news, I found some kind of special room last playthrough - it had a 3-large door going to it, and inside was a large room containing at least a dozen prototypes of all different types... guarded by four high-level sentries. I was using a flyer body, as it happened, so I was able to duck in, grab a handful of stuff and run back out before they toasted me. Found some sweet stuff.
Post by: EuchreJack on March 27, 2012, 12:19:12 pm
Unrelated edit: So this is how being completely, utterly fucked feels...
At least your enemies had the decency to move out of the doorway.
At least you had weapons...
Post by: Dariush on March 27, 2012, 12:26:07 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Oh great, another crash. I had two different armors equipped, was looking over my parts. I selected light plating and the game crashed. :( Maybe you should add some kind of infodump at crash to ease the determination of the cause?
BTW, an idea: add a 'panic mode': if it's turned on and you attempt to move without having enough energy, you instead wait a turn. Prevents the problem of frantically mashing the 'wait' button, waiting for the energy to recover.
And, for that matter, an indication of how overweight you are: either by using different adjectives or something like 'overweight x3'.
Post by: AlStar on March 27, 2012, 12:29:25 pm
Nine grenade launchers in plain sight. What more could a man wish for? Oh, maybe not picking a speed'n'stealth build for the first time ever.
Actually, having a grenade launcher (or any kind of launcher, really) seems like it would be really useful to have around on a speed build. Not all the time, of course, but to keep in your inventory and equip when you need to widen corridors or blow open rooms to escape enemies.
Post by: Dariush on March 27, 2012, 01:02:01 pm
Post by: tompliss on March 27, 2012, 01:31:46 pm
Shouldn't miners' weapons be able to cut through walls ?
Post by: Toaster on March 27, 2012, 01:54:38 pm
Also, I came up to Factory 2 and saw *three* advanced mass redistributors... right after I passed up several improved jet thrusters on the prior floor. Ugh.
Post by: Aqizzar on March 27, 2012, 02:14:33 pm
And I couldn't love this game more for it. Who doesn't like seeing someone else going to all the hard work to make something you wanted in the first place?
Now I just have to figure out how to leave the starting room without being blown away by swarmers. I have to say, Cogmind is setting new standards in Roguelike Difficulty. I haven't been this prone to game-start deaths since Caves of Qud.
Post by: MonkeyHead on March 27, 2012, 03:10:33 pm
Post by: Aqizzar on March 27, 2012, 03:19:47 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on March 27, 2012, 03:48:46 pm
Nine grenade launchers in plain sight. What more could a man wish for? Oh, maybe not picking a speed'n'stealth build for the first time ever.
Actually, having a grenade launcher (or any kind of launcher, really) seems like it would be really useful to have around on a speed build. Not all the time, of course, but to keep in your inventory and equip when you need to widen corridors or blow open rooms to escape enemies.
Especially as the mini grenade launcher only weighs 1...that medium laser you're packing probably weighs more.
Oh, and I forgot to mention this before: I had the same problem Aqizzar is having, no saving.
Course, I'm mainly concerned with maximizing score in minimal time (AlStar, you shall not win!), so it didn't bother me that much.
Post by: Chaosgabe on March 27, 2012, 07:42:20 pm
Ah well. Is there a way to climb the stairs back up? And when/how do you evolve?
Post by: Aqizzar on March 27, 2012, 07:45:34 pm
Ah well. Is there a way to climb the stairs back up? And when/how do you evolve?
Nope, it specifically says once you go up, you're up. It's just like DoomRL. And you evolve when you go to the next floor (after the first), but it's a good idea to scavenge every floor completely.
Anyway, still waiting on a bug fix/response to that "Control-S does nothing" problem.
Post by: Kyzrati on March 27, 2012, 07:47:29 pm
So uh... How do I save my game? The ? menu says Control-S is Save & Quit, but I'm hammering Control-S (and Shift-S, Alt-S, and S) and no save/quit is happening.Note that "in Ctrl-S", the 'S' is upper case, so saving is actually ctrl-shift-s. It may look a bit confusing from the commands list, but I was trying to minimize the amount of space taken up by a given command entry to keep down the clutter. Upper case letters on the list always require a shift mod.
Oh, a little thing :Yeah, I wanted to do that but didn't have enough time.
Shouldn't miners' weapons be able to cut through walls ?
Oh great, another crash. I had two different armors equipped, was looking over my parts. I selected light plating and the game crashed. :( Maybe you should add some kind of infodump at crash to ease the determination of the cause?If it's a normal error caught by the game, it will show you a specific error message, but if it's something like a ptr issue it'll just CTD. There is a file called run.log created by the game during each run, and there's a small chance that even if there is no game error message it might contain indications of what caused the problem (though it's mostly used to record errors the game *does* know about). Some kind of dump probably wouldn't be as useful for me, since I've never learned how to use those. Normally I don't have to rely much on people helping me debug, since I code as slowly as necessary to make sure it's thoroughly debugged as I go (that's why there are almost no crash reports for X@COM, even though it's a *much* bigger game). But this being a 7DRL, didn't have that luxury.
About this crash, the error doesn't sound like it had anything to do specifically with the fact that you had two different armors equipped. There must've been something else behind the issue. I haven't had any time to play myself in the past few days, so no chance to catch bugs on my dev machine.
BTW, an idea: add a 'panic mode': if it's turned on and you attempt to move without having enough energy, you instead wait a turn. Prevents the problem of frantically mashing the 'wait' button, waiting for the energy to recover.I think auto-waiting might be a bad thing if you didn't know you were low on energy and suddenly find out. If you haven't realized you're out of energy, you may want to think a bit before charging up, since you may want to use the energy on something else depending on the circumstances.
And, for that matter, an indication of how overweight you are: either by using different adjectives or something like 'overweight x3'.Sure I can add that.
I'll expand the manual with all this info at some point.Yep. Volley fire times:Yaaay. Manual entry please? Oh, and BTW, how does time parameter affect this table? Is it flat bonus/penalty applied to the total volley fire time? (also, please rename it to something like delay or something ;))
#weps time
As you can see, firing a huge volley has its advantages. You can fire 10 times as many weapons for only 3 times the time cost.
Time is a flat modifier to the table, yeah. Technically it should be named "speed" (that's its internal name), but naming it was a dilemma since you generally think that higher speed is better... (same as the propulsion issue).
Not now you can't! ;)1) I did that on purpose since you can't see who is firing. I could have given partial info, but decided not to do that yet.But can we at least see whether it hit or missed and which part it hit? :(
Just kidding, I'll add it for fix4.
EDIT: Oh, and could you add an option to edit the order of weapon firing without manually taking them off and reputting on in a different order?I'll see about adding a command to reassign part letters.
EDIT2:I totally didn't get that when I first looked at it. *Now* I know what you were referring to. Oops. That's because in fix3 I finally added the red color to faulty prototypes, but forgot that you may not have identified that prototype yet. Made that change too quick... Damnit, that sucks! I'll remove it in fix4.Are you absolutely sure this isn't a bug?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Yodamaster on March 27, 2012, 08:33:55 pm
Post by: Dariush on March 28, 2012, 03:23:20 am
I think auto-waiting might be a bad thing if you didn't know you were low on energy and suddenly find out. If you haven't realized you're out of energy, you may want to think a bit before charging up, since you may want to use the energy on something else depending on the circumstances.That's why it's a separate mode that can be manually activated by the player (and notify him through somewhere in the status window).
When can we expect fix4?
EDIT: Oh, and it would be nice if 'insufficient energy' upon firing was displayed before targeting.
EDIT2: FUCK. I overheated without noticing it. Again. Could you please add some noticeable special effects (like screen corners gaining a yellow tint) to display overheating and, possibly, other negative afflictions like being overweight (for example, by showing light blue 'cracks' around the edges)?
Post by: Ehndras on March 28, 2012, 03:25:18 am
Trying this out, once I figure out how to download the game.
...Oh, silly me at 4 in the morning.
Post by: EuchreJack on March 28, 2012, 04:10:35 am
Hm. First run, made it to Factory/5 or 6. Is that good?
Very good. You should submit your score.
Post by: Ehndras on March 28, 2012, 05:28:39 am
Post by: Dariush on March 28, 2012, 06:47:17 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Ehndras on March 28, 2012, 06:57:28 am
And I thought being jumped by soldiers on level 2 was bad, Jeeze.
Wondering how to evolve though, I've had 0 of those or prototypes so far...
Post by: Repulsion on March 28, 2012, 08:03:34 am
Post by: Kyzrati on March 28, 2012, 09:47:14 am
Definitely very good for a first run (unless you can't do it again, in which case it was luck ;)). And yes, you should submit your score. Anyone should if they have at least 1000 points. It'll be more fun if the ranking changes a bit over the next couple weeks rather than everyone practicing in secret and then suddenly I receive a deluge of record sheets right before the deadline... So far I've only go two people on the high scores list, though I know more of you are participating.Hm. First run, made it to Factory/5 or 6. Is that good?
Very good. You should submit your score.
The Factory is so unfair.Dude, I've never had that happen. Running from everything can get you into a lot of trouble if you don't have the right equipment (a good ECM works wonders). I prefer to either avoid all enemies in the first place (sensors) or pick off everything I can one by one until/unless there's no other choice but flee.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
How do you guys get all those hit percentage chances and whatnot in the box when you fire your weapons? Is it some kind of option or...?New feature in fix3: press 'q' a few times.
By the way, could you please make it so that after moving onto a tile, regardless of where the mouse is placed, scan displays the item immediatly underneath you, to prevent confusion?Actually, it does that automatically if the cursor is hidden (precisely to prevent confusion), but the way it's coded I can't easily have it do that if you're using the mouse--the mouse pointer location always has priority. You have to play without the cursor (F2) to get that functionality. Playing purely with the keyboard is almost always much faster anyway.
I'll look into it.I think auto-waiting might be a bad thing if you didn't know you were low on energy and suddenly find out. If you haven't realized you're out of energy, you may want to think a bit before charging up, since you may want to use the energy on something else depending on the circumstances.That's why it's a separate mode that can be manually activated by the player (and notify him through somewhere in the status window).
When can we expect fix4?It's already done, I just haven't released it yet since I was busy with something else this afternoon and still have to finish updating the new manual. I'll probably upload it in a short while.
EDIT: Oh, and it would be nice if 'insufficient energy' upon firing was displayed before targeting.I'll look into it.
EDIT2: FUCK. I overheated without noticing it. Again. Could you please add some noticeable special effects (like screen corners gaining a yellow tint) to display overheating and, possibly, other negative afflictions like being overweight (for example, by showing light blue 'cracks' around the edges)?You're so full of good ideas... Actually, UI effects for that and more were in the design docs, but I couldn't do them in time because the best way to implement them would require a rather central addition to my RL engine. Support for that feature is inevitable because I'll need it for X@COM, but I haven't gotten around to it (though it's already been planned out). Perhaps in a future version.
Post by: Dariush on March 28, 2012, 09:50:07 am
EDIT: BTW, could we get a manual entry about every class and their typical characteristics like type of propulsion and size?
Post by: Kyzrati on March 28, 2012, 10:33:48 am
* FIX: Faulty prototypes no longer shown in red (if you've identified them, the "Faulty" modifier is sufficient)
* MOD: Status window indicates how overweight you are
* MOD: Changed hit/miss message colors in log
* MOD: Mining Laser can now cut through walls and earth
* NEW: Added Advanced Player's Guide (manual2.txt)
* NEW: Reassign part keys (see manual2.txt for unlisted commands)
* NEW: "Full detail" setting for log combat verbosity
* NEW: Optional advanced stats mode
Dariush, added even more juicy details for you in the combat log, but if you want to know the exact chance to hit each part on a target, you'll have to attach a robot scan processor.
Also, I stumbled onto the cut features on the site. Are you going to put them into the game sooner or later? :(Much later, if ever. I need to get back to working on X@COM soon. I'm already spending more time on Cogmind than I anticipated, and half the reason is you keep asking for stuff ;)
Watch your back for angry and impatient X@COM fans! :o
EDIT: BTW, could we get a manual entry about every class and their typical characteristics like type of propulsion and size?I was going to put that in there eventually; it's not in the current version, though. You can get some of that detailed information by attaching a robot scan processor.
Post by: Dariush on March 28, 2012, 10:37:42 am
Dariush, added even more juicy details for you in the combat log, but if you want to know the exact chance to hit each part on a target, you'll have to attach a robot scan processor.Okaaaaaay. :( How about the chance to hit each part on the player?
Much later, if ever. I need to get back to working on X@COM soon. I'm already spending more time on Cogmind than I anticipated, and half the reason is you keep asking for stuff ;):'(
Watch your back for angry and impatient X@COM fans! :o
Post by: Kyzrati on March 28, 2012, 10:45:06 am
In the log? Maybe... Seems like unnecessary clutter, since you can gauge approximately what it'll be based on the type of part and how many parts you have. With a bit of play experience (combined with occasionally checking the data screen) that kind of stuff should start to come to you. Do you really have to know the exact percent every time you take a hit? You really are a numbers guy.Dariush, added even more juicy details for you in the combat log, but if you want to know the exact chance to hit each part on a target, you'll have to attach a robot scan processor.Okaaaaaay. :( How about the chance to hit each part on the player?
I do like Cogmind myself, a lot, but I promised to do great things with X@COM, and I will.Much later, if ever. I need to get back to working on X@COM soon. I'm already spending more time on Cogmind than I anticipated, and half the reason is you keep asking for stuff ;):'(
Watch your back for angry and impatient X@COM fans! :o
Also, if I were going to make Cogmind a bigger game, I'd almost certainly start over from scratch. I don't like the way it's coded.
Post by: Toaster on March 28, 2012, 10:54:05 am
Also, if I were going to make Cogmind a bigger game, I'd almost certainly start over from scratch. I don't like the way it's coded.
That's no problem- it'll only take you a week! :)
Post by: Kyzrati on March 28, 2012, 10:58:51 am
Post by: Dariush on March 28, 2012, 11:08:35 am
In the log? Maybe... Seems like unnecessary clutter, since you can gauge approximately what it'll be based on the type of part and how many parts you have. With a bit of play experience (combined with occasionally checking the data screen) that kind of stuff should start to come to you. Do you really have to know the exact percent every time you take a hit? You really are a numbers guy.Well, it would help deciding which part to add, which parts to protect and so forth. I adore roguelikes specifically because it's impossible to get by on pure luck and the player must calculate and decide on the most optimal build.
Don't focus on one game too much just because there are rapid fans who'll tear your throat out if you don't. ;)I do like Cogmind myself, a lot, but I promised to do great things with X@COM, and I will.Much later, if ever. I need to get back to working on X@COM soon. I'm already spending more time on Cogmind than I anticipated, and half the reason is you keep asking for stuff ;):'(
Watch your back for angry and impatient X@COM fans! :o
Also, if I were going to make Cogmind a bigger game, I'd almost certainly start over from scratch. I don't like the way it's coded.
BTW, could
Edit: Oh, and by the way, why are there 1 and 2 percent penalties to a lot of shots? And what about that detailed breakdown of bonuses and penalties? :'(
Post by: Kyzrati on March 28, 2012, 11:31:35 am
You got it.In the log? Maybe... Seems like unnecessary clutter, since you can gauge approximately what it'll be based on the type of part and how many parts you have. With a bit of play experience (combined with occasionally checking the data screen) that kind of stuff should start to come to you. Do you really have to know the exact percent every time you take a hit? You really are a numbers guy.Well, it would help deciding which part to add, which parts to protect and so forth. I adore roguelikes specifically because it's impossible to get by on pure luck and the player must calculate and decide on the most optimal build.
Hehe. I focus on one thing at a time (usually for a long time) because it's my nature, and in this case, the next X@COM release is already going to be late...Don't focus on one game too much just because there are rapid fans who'll tear your throat out if you don't. ;)I do like Cogmind myself, a lot, but I promised to do great things with X@COM, and I will.Much later, if ever. I need to get back to working on X@COM soon. I'm already spending more time on Cogmind than I anticipated, and half the reason is you keep asking for stuff ;):'(
Watch your back for angry and impatient X@COM fans! :o
Also, if I were going to make Cogmind a bigger game, I'd almost certainly start over from scratch. I don't like the way it's coded.
BTW, couldThat's why I didn't want all that info in there to begin with--there's just not enough room! I could make it a different size easily, but it'd have to remain static, and the only way to make it larger would be to have it take over some of the map space, which would reduce the visible area below the current minimum decent amount.Iwe please get resizeable log window?
Edit: Oh, and by the way, why are there 1 and 2 percent penalties to a lot of shots? And what about that detailed breakdown of bonuses and penalties? :'(Ah, you wanted a detailed breakdown of *everything* in the volley hit%? I'm not sure where I'd put all that info... Right now the log shows [volley] +/- [wep bonus] + [launcher bonus] - [recoil], leaving out any zeros (the -1's you see come from the small recoil values of the earlier weapons).
Post by: Dariush on March 28, 2012, 11:59:18 am
That's why I didn't want all that info in there to begin with--there's just not enough room! I could make it a different size easily, but it'd have to remain static, and the only way to make it larger would be to have it take over some of the map space, which would reduce the visible area below the current minimum decent amount.Then maybe a separate log window that will cover the entire screen?
Ah, you wanted a detailed breakdown of *everything* in the volley hit%? I'm not sure where I'd put all that info... Right now the log shows [volley] +/- [wep bonus] + [launcher bonus] - [recoil], leaving out any zeros (the -1's you see come from the small recoil values of the earlier weapons).Well, just label it like '60-10(s)-15(h)-4(r)+12(t)' and so forth, where s - target size, h - heat, t - targeting computer or something like that.
Edit: by the way, for consistency's sake, could you please make hits to the core be displayed as such, along with damage done?
Post by: gimlet on March 28, 2012, 12:56:31 pm
Also, one request on the default targeting - what is the current criteria that it uses for targeting order? Could you PLEASE have it default to enemies with weapons first instead of some useless engineer 20 squares away? Ideally in order of "my best to hit %" or "most damaged" or "biggest threat" or all possibilities with a toggle to select :D
ED:
2nd request - a mode for cursor on inventory only. Although I *should* get used to the ctrl/alt stuff fairly soon, I'm still finding it easier to use the mouse with the invisible cursor :p
3rd request - some kind of swap function, ideally a "swap from ground" too so I don't have to do the "drop item, drop equipped item, pick up new item, equip new item, pick up inventory item" dance for the thousandth time especially under fire :D It should probably take a *little* longer than a simple item equip, but not the 3 to 6 (with movement) turns that is required now...
Post by: Dariush on March 28, 2012, 01:20:52 pm
Post by: Toaster on March 28, 2012, 01:35:35 pm
Post by: MonkeyHead on March 28, 2012, 01:38:33 pm
Fuck, I died yet again. No matter what I do, I always get curbstomped in factory. I pick off individual enemies, but sooner or later a scout finds me, sends off a distress signal and I'm dead. If I, on the other hand, try to do a speed/stealth build, I need better engines which can only be dropped by enemies whom I can't kill due to relying on speed. Fuck.
Keep a rocket or grenade launcer stashed away - when in your inventory and unequipped it wont burden you, and you can deal with the speed hit for a turn or 2 to launch a rocket/grenade in order to get what you need from a sentinel before putting it back away again. Of course, the tricky bit is wounding the target, switching your explosive weapon off and finishing it as gently as possible to not waste the high value part you need.
Post by: Dariush on March 28, 2012, 01:44:54 pm
Keep a rocket or grenade launcer stashed away - when in your inventory and unequipped it wont burden you, and you can deal with the speed hit for a turn or 2 to launch a rocket/grenade in order to get what you need from a sentinel before putting it back away again. Of course, the tricky bit is wounding the target, switching your explosive weapon off and finishing it as gently as possible to not waste the high value part you need.I just saw a guardian (yellow Y) take three direct (i.e. displayed as 'hit') missile shots (plus several non-explosive shots) to the face. It's health barely got down to orange. Granted, it was in open field, so misses were less likely to damage it, but still. Explosives don't seem such a good way of speedy disposal of individual enemies. Oh, and the items are damaged when they are still attached to the enemy and explosives damage them just as much as usual weapons.
Post by: MonkeyHead on March 28, 2012, 02:22:58 pm
Spoke too soon. Swarmed on L2.
Post by: AlStar on March 28, 2012, 02:25:56 pm
I remember you saying that once you learnt the controls, the first 3 levels weren't too hard.
being swarmed by 5 g, g and 3 Y is hard.
happened to me on the second level. 3 times.
Part of the learning curve is to know when you're better off making strategic retreats so that you can try to pick them off individually or just fleeing entirely.
Think of it as the equivalent to running into Sigmund or a pack of gnolls on D2 in Crawl.
Alternatively, you're letting w's live too long/not staying away from them enough - usually you won't call down the wrath of the overmind like that unless you've got something calling for help.
Post by: AlStar on March 28, 2012, 03:05:20 pm
and the fact that, so long as you are within vision of ANY robot, they know where you are doesn't help.
I don't think that last part is true.
From Kyzrati:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The important part in that: Most enemies know about you only when they see you, and only notify allies who are within their alert range, which varies by robot. Watchers should always be a top kill priority because they have a huge alert range and can call enemies from all over the place to come get you!
Post by: Toaster on March 28, 2012, 03:10:57 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on March 28, 2012, 05:15:54 pm
Post by: gimlet on March 28, 2012, 05:45:23 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Hey, sounds like a function that could be added via a new Utility part - "behavior analyzer" or something - a scut bot headed for floor trash should be easy to ID (and bonus you get to cry as you see he's headed for the only visible pair of myomer legs you need to get your movement back up but won't be able to beat him to), the commandos/highly tactical types should be increasingly harder to predict as they will both react to your moves and throw in behavior camoflaging actions... Although some would consider themselves so badass they don't need the sissy fakes and just have external speakers to play Ride of the Valkyries and shout "EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!".
Post by: Elmzran on March 28, 2012, 06:18:25 pm
I've played plenty of Roguelikes before, yet this is one of the few I'm actually able to get in to :)
Post by: Orb on March 28, 2012, 07:58:44 pm
Post by: Kyzrati on March 28, 2012, 08:44:05 pm
Hm, I could pretty easily add a big message log that opens up over the screen (the X@COM R6 I'm sitting on already has one); then you could more easily review what's going on, though you'd have to open a window to do that, obviously.That's why I didn't want all that info in there to begin with--there's just not enough room! I could make it a different size easily, but it'd have to remain static, and the only way to make it larger would be to have it take over some of the map space, which would reduce the visible area below the current minimum decent amount.Then maybe a separate log window that will cover the entire screen?
That could potentially be a very, very long string... lots of factors. (Also note that it wouldn't be completely accurate shown as whole numbers, since the game is using decimals.) Would definitely need a bigger log window to show all that stuff.Ah, you wanted a detailed breakdown of *everything* in the volley hit%? I'm not sure where I'd put all that info... Right now the log shows [volley] +/- [wep bonus] + [launcher bonus] - [recoil], leaving out any zeros (the -1's you see come from the small recoil values of the earlier weapons).Well, just label it like '60-10(s)-15(h)-4(r)+12(t)' and so forth, where s - target size, h - heat, t - targeting computer or something like that.
Edit: by the way, for consistency's sake, could you please make hits to the core be displayed as such, along with damage done?Oh yeah, forgot about the core. I'll add it.
This is a blast - sent in a score. Do you prefer em as attachments or can it go in the email body?Attachments, definitely, since I save and upload the record files for everyone to peruse.
And dudes, gimlet is now owning you all.
Also, one request on the default targeting - what is the current criteria that it uses for targeting order? Could you PLEASE have it default to enemies with weapons first instead of some useless engineer 20 squares away? Ideally in order of "my best to hit %" or "most damaged" or "biggest threat" or all possibilities with a toggle to select :DYeah, right now it's simply picking the upper-left-most robot, and cycles through them in rows. I agree, this change is needed.
ED:Wow, using the mouse with the invisible cursor, now there's a hybrid I didn't expect :D
2nd request - a mode for cursor on inventory only. Although I *should* get used to the ctrl/alt stuff fairly soon, I'm still finding it easier to use the mouse with the invisible cursor :p
I'll see about an inventory only cursor mode.
3rd request - some kind of swap function, ideally a "swap from ground" too so I don't have to do the "drop item, drop equipped item, pick up new item, equip new item, pick up inventory item" dance for the thousandth time especially under fire :D It should probably take a *little* longer than a simple item equip, but not the 3 to 6 (with movement) turns that is required now...Yeah, that's definitely annoying. I'll see if I can fit it into the control scheme (and code it without breaking the already fragile game... I made a lot of assumptions during the 7DRLC to finish the game quickly, and if I can't remember all those assumptions while coding new stuff, I might break something)
Yeah, until you get the really powerful explosive weapons later, they aren't as reliable for taking out individual enemies, primarily because their damage spreads on targets (haven't yet added the details of how that works to the advanced player's guide). One thing you might not know is that certain robots are weak/strong against certain types of damage. If you are seeing one weapon type is not effective against a robot class, try others. You'll need a more advanced robot scan processor to find the details, though. Let me just say that using explosives on Sentries is a bad idea.Keep a rocket or grenade launcer stashed away - when in your inventory and unequipped it wont burden you, and you can deal with the speed hit for a turn or 2 to launch a rocket/grenade in order to get what you need from a sentinel before putting it back away again. Of course, the tricky bit is wounding the target, switching your explosive weapon off and finishing it as gently as possible to not waste the high value part you need.I just saw a guardian (yellow Y) take three direct (i.e. displayed as 'hit') missile shots (plus several non-explosive shots) to the face. It's health barely got down to orange. Granted, it was in open field, so misses were less likely to damage it, but still. Explosives don't seem such a good way of speedy disposal of individual enemies. Oh, and the items are damaged when they are still attached to the enemy and explosives damage them just as much as usual weapons.
AlStar is right, they don't always know where you are. It's all handled on an individual robot-by-robot basis. Do any of you ever actually use sensors? They are awesome, and the long-range versions will also allow you to see what the enemy robots are doing, and you can study their behavior that way if you like. Take out a Watcher and steal its scanning equipment--later on a good sensor and interpreter can tell you exactly what class a robot is, through walls, up to 18-25 spaces in every direction...and the fact that, so long as you are within vision of ANY robot, they know where you are doesn't help.
I don't think that last part is true.
From Kyzrati:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The important part in that: Most enemies know about you only when they see you, and only notify allies who are within their alert range, which varies by robot. Watchers should always be a top kill priority because they have a huge alert range and can call enemies from all over the place to come get you!
I've had several instances where there's a "city block" style area where there's a closed off area surrounded on all four sides by corridors. I've run around them only to find the enemy is coming up the other way to intercept me. They're either tracking me or have really good AI.They'll split up and come at you from different directions, yeah, but the stupid ones can't go too far since they'll lose track of you. The smart ones, well, they're dangerous what can I say.
From Kyzrati:I love that description :DSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Hey, sounds like a function that could be added via a new Utility part - "behavior analyzer" or something - a scut bot headed for floor trash should be easy to ID (and bonus you get to cry as you see he's headed for the only visible pair of myomer legs you need to get your movement back up but won't be able to beat him to), the commandos/highly tactical types should be increasingly harder to predict as they will both react to your moves and throw in behavior camoflaging actions... Although some would consider themselves so badass they don't need the sissy fakes and just have external speakers to play Ride of the Valkyries and shout "EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!".
Good idea on the new util. I'll add it to the list (I've got several I didn't have time to implement).
Made it to research. Its all purplely. :oYou sir, are the first person to report such a success. I am impressed. 8)
If everyone was making it to Research, the game wouldn't be very well balanced now would it? That's why the Factory isn't so easy. Now if you can beat Research, then you're approaching Cogmind awesomeness.
Really though, if you can acquire and maintain a good set of parts the late game actually gets *easier* since you have so many parts which can provide you with very deadly/effective combinations.
I must say, this game is quite impressive. I started playing a few days ago, and have progressively gotten better. My furthest run was to Factory Level 6, I believe, though that was with Fix #1. I'm downloading Fix #4 now to see if I can improve my score.I am very happy to hear that!
I've played plenty of Roguelikes before, yet this is one of the few I'm actually able to get in to :)
Post by: Knirisk on March 28, 2012, 09:13:02 pm
AlStar is right, they don't always know where you are. It's all handled on an individual robot-by-robot basis. Do any of you ever actually use sensors? They are awesome, and the long-range versions will also allow you to see what the enemy robots are doing, and you can study their behavior that way if you like. Take out a Watcher and steal its scanning equipment--later on a good sensor and interpreter can tell you exactly what class a robot is, through walls, up to 18-25 spaces in every direction...and the fact that, so long as you are within vision of ANY robot, they know where you are doesn't help.
I don't think that last part is true.
From Kyzrati:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The important part in that: Most enemies know about you only when they see you, and only notify allies who are within their alert range, which varies by robot. Watchers should always be a top kill priority because they have a huge alert range and can call enemies from all over the place to come get you!
Argh. So, can serfs alert nearby guards, then, without actually signaling the alarm like a watcher? Because in one game, I did have sensors equipped. In fact, I ran away and hid in the corner of a small room hoping that they'd patrol right past, since I could see them. Then a serf comes in and they swarm kill me.
Post by: Dariush on March 29, 2012, 02:12:19 am
Made it to research. Its all purplely. :oHow?! Which build did you use and which parts did you find?
Hm, I could pretty easily add a big message log that opens up over the screen (the X@COM R6 I'm sitting on already has one); then you could more easily review what's going on, though you'd have to open a window to do that, obviously.That's what I meant.
That could potentially be a very, very long string... lots of factors. (Also note that it wouldn't be completely accurate shown as whole numbers, since the game is using decimals.) Would definitely need a bigger log window to show all that stuff.Well, maybe then make it possible to remove some of those factors?
Wow, using the mouse with the invisible cursor, now there's a hybrid I didn't expect :DThat's what I'm doing too, mostly because I don't know of any way to scroll the inventory via keyboard. :D
Do any of you ever actually use sensors? They are awesome, and the long-range versions will also allow you to see what the enemy robots are doing, and you can study their behavior that way if you like. Take out a Watcher and steal its scanning equipment--later on a good sensor and interpreter can tell you exactly what class a robot is, through walls, up to 18-25 spaces in every direction...To use sensors you have to find a sensor array and a processor and they take up two utility slots while being far less of a priority than storage tanks or targeting computers. So it's no wonder people prefer to use their visual processing. :D
Also, I found that some utilities are faaaaar too specialized to be of any use. For example, core heat shield: it only prevents heat damage, only to the core and only in 40% of cases. That's ridiculous. At the very least it should be something like 80% if not all 100%.
Post by: xDarkz on March 29, 2012, 03:15:44 am
Edit: Did I mention how in love I am with the ASCII particle effects?
Post by: Dariush on March 29, 2012, 08:30:07 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Now accepting bets on how long I will last.
***
Okay, I died. Endless swarms of programmers, sentries and grunts ahoy.
Post by: Toaster on March 29, 2012, 09:11:23 am
AlStar is right, they don't always know where you are. It's all handled on an individual robot-by-robot basis. Do any of you ever actually use sensors? They are awesome, and the long-range versions will also allow you to see what the enemy robots are doing, and you can study their behavior that way if you like. Take out a Watcher and steal its scanning equipment--later on a good sensor and interpreter can tell you exactly what class a robot is, through walls, up to 18-25 spaces in every direction...I've had several instances where there's a "city block" style area where there's a closed off area surrounded on all four sides by corridors. I've run around them only to find the enemy is coming up the other way to intercept me. They're either tracking me or have really good AI.They'll split up and come at you from different directions, yeah, but the stupid ones can't go too far since they'll lose track of you. The smart ones, well, they're dangerous what can I say.
I got a 20something range scanner once with interpreter- it was pretty awesome. Still got killed, though.
And that makes sense- clever bastards.
Post by: gimlet on March 29, 2012, 11:44:45 am
To use sensors you have to find a sensor array and a processor and they take up two utility slots while being far less of a priority than storage tanks or targeting computers. So it's no wonder people prefer to use their visual processing. :DI just did a looong level's worth that started with this - I was a big packrat coming up from Factory/3 with 2 huge storages full of engines, legs, armor and good stuff I found (especially the extra Advanced Targeting and Heavy EMP Shotguns/Improved Pulse Rifles) that I was able to drop off in an isolated room as an initial replenishment stash. I had found an "advanced scanner array" that spots all enemies within 18 tiles, whee! And used that to sweep back and forth and nail all the annoying scavengers before they could get to my stuff. I'd swap in the decoder when there was a group of enemies to see if they were dangerous, if not I'd wade in and kill em, if dangerous I'd wait til they separated a bit and then dance in and pick off a couple before retreating. A few times I got swarmed and most of my equipment blown off, then if I couldn't find equipment during the retreat I'd fight a running battle back to my stash and re-equip quickly and take out the enemies as they came through the door.
I cleared off about 80% of the level, but still got killed 'cause I pushed it a bit too far and got swarmed and cored. I dunno if I recommend this as a strategy, but as a change of pace it was fun because I felt like I was more in control. Unfortunately it crashed as I died - pretty sure it was a p hitting me with something but I was tired and wasn't looking real close.
Quote
Also, I found that some utilities are faaaaar too specialized to be of any use. For example, core heat shield: it only prevents heat damage, only to the core and only in 40% of cases. That's ridiculous. At the very least it should be something like 80% if not all 100%."Specialized utilities" - yeah, but remember that these aren't designed to be most useful to your robot, they were part of a robot designed for some other purpose that, when attached to your robot, has these specific characteristics. Whether they're useful or not at any point in time is the decisions you have to make. That being said, I also almost never equip those unless I pick one up in passing when there's nothing else better available. Although somebody willing to do the sensor work could equip them at just the right time to fight a tough thermal-damage-dealing bot spotted on the sensors.
Post by: Orb on March 29, 2012, 11:52:55 am
Made it to research. Its all purplely. :oHow?! Which build did you use and which parts did you find?
Well, somewhere along the way I found an experimental radar system. It provided 80 tile radar or some other ridiculous number. Essentially, you can see the entire screen. From there, I tried equipping flight units, but I could never find more than one hover/flight, making it rather useless. So I stuck with the rather fast basic hover, when you don't have any propulsion.
From there, it was a simple act of dodging everything. Sometimes I threw on some light armor, but most of the time it was bum rushing past enemies. At one point I lost my radar(lv 7 I believe), but I got lucky enough to reach 8.
Essentially, I never got bogged down. Being faster than your enemies makes that easy. I always carried a -very- heavy launcher weapon to get out of tight spots.
Post by: Kyzrati on March 29, 2012, 12:25:13 pm
You guys are going to love this one...
* FIX: Some hit% components incorrectly reported in manual
* MOD: Robot info shows their current relative speed
* MOD: Verbose log mode also reports core hits/damage
* MOD: Volley readout highlights energy/matter in red if insufficient for currently selected weapons
* NEW: Even higher log verbosity setting
* NEW: Set auto-target preference
* NEW: Warning message and sound when Cogmind heat reaches more dangerous levels
* NEW: Fast attach action (attach an item directly from ground, bypassing inventory)
* NEW: Part auto-activation
So you get a whole new action which is sure to help, and some good options to boot. Fast attachment combined with auto-activation should speed things up significantly.
I STRONGLY encourage everyone to get this fix (I know a fair number of you haven't been updating every fix, and some are still using crash-prone old versions). Besides all the helpful changes and additions, another reason to upgrade is only with this latest version will you be eligible for some of the potential notable achievements that will be determined by the end of the first competition. (Normal scores are still valid, as usual.)
I don't have time to read what you guys have posted today--time for bed. I'll check it out later.
EDIT: I rushed this out without any extensive testing, so if the new actions crash something, tell me and I'll fix it tomorrow. They seem to work fine, though.
Post by: Dariush on March 29, 2012, 12:30:34 pm
Yay for fix! YAY FOR LACK OF PERCENTAGES!
Could we pleeeease have full screen log window now? And 'closest enemy' setting for auto-targeting. And an option to fast-swap an equipped item and an item in my inventory. And a way to save all the options I have to reset every game. And a way to see the detailed percentages before firing.Then my arrogant face will be happy. ^_^
Oh hey, first crash. Several enemies were on the screen, specifically a pest and an engineer. I pressed x, then tab twice. Either after the first or the second tab the game crashed.
Also, even with advanced stats, the enemy speed is still displayed in percents.
Also, it would be awesome if for future versions you greatly lessened the number of utilities, combining their functions. For example, a basic sensor array and a single type of processor that fully identifies the object, because processors that merely tell you the size of the target are... not exactly useful.
Bugs ahoy!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Toaster on March 29, 2012, 12:45:41 pm
Speaking of this game...
(http://i43.tinypic.com/20hlyfp.png)
Energy is a hell of a problem, but at least I can turn on the weight units and/or ECM.
Post by: MonkeyHead on March 29, 2012, 01:12:20 pm
Post by: Ehndras on March 29, 2012, 01:14:52 pm
As for me, I'll keep attempting to get past level 2... I clear an entire level before going further, so even though I found the stairs and was satisfied with my build, I'm still exploring to find new stashes and kill everything that moves.
Post by: cerapa on March 29, 2012, 01:19:20 pm
Peak State
------------
Power
Light Nuclear Core
Propulsion
Armored Wheel
Armored Wheel
Improved Flight Unit
Utility
Large Storage Unit
Propulsion Shielding
Visual Processing Unit
Weapon
EMP Blaster
EMP Blaster
EMP Blasters are the shit. Sadly some Y-s shot em both off, which lead to me doing a wild dash for the next level. Which happened to be filled to the brim with g-s. Also found 3 prototypes in the same room. All of them were faulty and blew off 2 of my wheels.
Post by: Toaster on March 29, 2012, 01:33:19 pm
Peak State
------------
Power
Micro Fission Core
Micro Fission Core
Propulsion
Improved Flight Unit
Improved Flight Unit
Electron Diverter
VTOL Module
Electron Diverter
Utility
Weight Redist.System
Advanced Weight Redist.System
Advanced ECM Suite
Advanced ECM Suite
Advanced Power Amplifier
Advanced Power Amplifier
Weapon
Mini Smartbomb Launcher
Advanced power amps are pretty sweet, though electron diverters really suck up too much energy to be useful. Improved jet thrusters/flight units are still awesome.
I wanted to cry when I found a room with three heavy shock bomb launchers and I had to leave them behind...
Post by: Dariush on March 29, 2012, 01:36:46 pm
uppercase B.Which level was that? o_0 And how did you begin the game, before finding IFUs and VTOLs?
Micro Fission Core
Electron Diverter
Advanced Power Amplifier
Mini Smartbomb Launcher
heavy shock bomb launcher
Post by: Toaster on March 29, 2012, 02:02:05 pm
I started with hover units and generally avoiding combat. It's not really hard early on since you can just outrun everything at 222%. Once you find decent flight, you can do 500% easily. I found a regular weight dist. unit and ECM early, which helped me leapfrog nastier groups- just hide around the corner until full energy then cut on everything and mad dash through.
The mini smartbombs make a big boom and only weigh three- I screwed myself a bit by catching myself in the blast.
And let me repeat my love and adoration for shock bomb launchers. Seriously, try them. All the fun of rocket launchers with most of the salvage!
Post by: AlStar on March 29, 2012, 07:37:31 pm
Second crash happened when I tried to drop an equipped Terrain Scanner, which would've fallen to the ground, since I didn't have any extra inventory space.
Run.log:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Kyzrati on March 29, 2012, 08:31:20 pm
Non-combat robots do not alert allies of your presence unless you shoot at them. There must've been some other reason they found you. One likely possibility is that they were headed into that room to begin with (don't know what you mean by "guards", Grunts or Sentries?). When I have sensors, I wait out patrolling groups fairly often, but they can still decide to check out a room (has nothing to do with you being there).AlStar is right, they don't always know where you are. It's all handled on an individual robot-by-robot basis. Do any of you ever actually use sensors? They are awesome, and the long-range versions will also allow you to see what the enemy robots are doing, and you can study their behavior that way if you like. Take out a Watcher and steal its scanning equipment--later on a good sensor and interpreter can tell you exactly what class a robot is, through walls, up to 18-25 spaces in every direction...and the fact that, so long as you are within vision of ANY robot, they know where you are doesn't help.
I don't think that last part is true.
From Kyzrati:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The important part in that: Most enemies know about you only when they see you, and only notify allies who are within their alert range, which varies by robot. Watchers should always be a top kill priority because they have a huge alert range and can call enemies from all over the place to come get you!
Argh. So, can serfs alert nearby guards, then, without actually signaling the alarm like a watcher? Because in one game, I did have sensors equipped. In fact, I ran away and hid in the corner of a small room hoping that they'd patrol right past, since I could see them. Then a serf comes in and they swarm kill me.
Use bracket keys (it's on the command list).Wow, using the mouse with the invisible cursor, now there's a hybrid I didn't expect :DThat's what I'm doing too, mostly because I don't know of any way to scroll the inventory via keyboard. :D
"Far less a priority" is an opinion, though. I would prefer sensor information any day. Superior tactical information is very, very useful. One way to manage all that is to have more utility slots. I'm one of those players who puts everything I can into utilities, precisely for that reason.Do any of you ever actually use sensors? They are awesome, and the long-range versions will also allow you to see what the enemy robots are doing, and you can study their behavior that way if you like. Take out a Watcher and steal its scanning equipment--later on a good sensor and interpreter can tell you exactly what class a robot is, through walls, up to 18-25 spaces in every direction...To use sensors you have to find a sensor array and a processor and they take up two utility slots while being far less of a priority than storage tanks or targeting computers. So it's no wonder people prefer to use their visual processing. :D
There are better heat shields later (70% and 100%), and they are totally useful for some builds. In the early game heat isn't much of an issue, but by the mid- to late-game, overheating engines becomes a lot more common if you are using thermal weapons (esp. if facing off against other robots with thermal weapons). Some of the more powerful energy cannons create over 100 heat per shot. Have just a few of those, combined with insulation from armor, heat transfer from enemy thermal shots, and if you are low on heat sinks you will be overheating like crazy. Most common / first thing to happen will be all your engines shutting down one by one. Not fun.Also, I found that some utilities are faaaaar too specialized to be of any use. For example, core heat shield: it only prevents heat damage, only to the core and only in 40% of cases. That's ridiculous. At the very least it should be something like 80% if not all 100%.but remember that these aren't designed to be most useful to your robot, they were part of a robot designed for some other purpose that, when attached to your robot, has these specific characteristics. Whether they're useful or not at any point in time is the decisions you have to make.
So that's how you did it... It'll work to a point, though a complete escape that way would be pretty difficult since the later levels aren't as forgiving to naked cores.So I stuck with the rather fast basic hover, when you don't have any propulsion.Made it to research. Its all purplely. :oHow?! Which build did you use and which parts did you find?
From there, it was a simple act of dodging everything.
Could we pleeeease have full screen log window now? And 'closest enemy' setting for auto-targeting. And an option to fast-swap an equipped item and an item in my inventory. And a way to save all the options I have to reset every game. And a way to see the detailed percentages before firing.Then my arrogant face will be happy. ^_^Are you sure about that? ;)
Those things are all on the to-do list, I just released fix5 before I put them in.
Oh hey, first crash. Several enemies were on the screen, specifically a pest and an engineer. I pressed x, then tab twice. Either after the first or the second tab the game crashed.Yeah, I released before testing much, just because I wanted to get it the new action out there. It was late, and I coded it the easiest way I could think of, without thoroughly checking all the possible consequences...
Bugs ahoy!That was an unidentified fast-attached gun, by the way. And after I tried to remove it (dunno whether I had space in inventory) the game crashed.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I've pulled fix5 from the site--everyone should stick with fix4 (once again available for download)
Also, it would be awesome if for future versions you greatly lessened the number of utilities, combining their functions. For example, a basic sensor array and a single type of processor that fully identifies the object, because processors that merely tell you the size of the target are... not exactly useful.I split those two apart very intentionally, because having all that information in one package would be way too useful. And as for distinguishing the size of an unseen enemy, it can actually be pretty useful in certain situations (esp. if you have a long-range sensor but have yet to find a better processor).
That is a very nice build. And with two advanced ECMs... you must've been able to shake almost anyone on your tail.Advanced power amps are pretty sweet, though electron diverters really suck up too much energy to be useful. Improved jet thrusters/flight units are still awesome.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I've just crashed out of both games I tried on fix5. Sadly, I forgot to copy the error text from run.log for the first one, but it occured when I had just picked up a flight unit with 'a' while 'p' was enabled. The turn before, I'd autoequipped another flight unit, and I noticed that the display didn't update my movement away from core.Thanks so much for the report. I'll have it fixed soon. (Too bad I'll be busy almost all of today, though. Might not get around to fix6 until tonight.)
Second crash happened when I tried to drop an equipped Terrain Scanner, which would've fallen to the ground, since I didn't have any extra inventory space.
Run.log:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Kyzrati on March 29, 2012, 09:24:40 pm
Fix6 is out (http://cogmindrl.blogspot.com/p/files.html)--it's just a fix for the new problems introduced in fix5. So now you should be able to upgrade and get your nice new fast attach w/auto-activation.
* FIX: Fast attach action no longer crashes on full inventory
* FIX: New auto-targeting system will no longer crash in look mode
(The above list looks shorter than the number/type of crashes that were just reported, but they were pretty much all stemming from #1 there)
It turns out the crash never would've happened if I wasn't releasing the game with extra error information. It wouldn't have attached for you, for sure, but the debugging fallback is what caused the actual crash. Oops. Easily resolved, though.
New features will have to wait for fix7.
EDIT:
What to expect:
-hot swapping (inventory<->parts)
-game config/options saved (weren't enough of them earlier to bother, now there's quite a few)
-"closest armed enemy" auto-targeting preference
-new log window (this might be pushed back to fix8, how many people want this?)
-etc
Post by: Aqizzar on March 29, 2012, 10:14:48 pm
Post by: Kyzrati on March 30, 2012, 01:49:55 am
I know about that issue, I just have yet to do anything about it. Once it's determined you've missed, the particle engine gets a random target somewhere in the vicinity of what you were shooting at and fires at that instead. This is why you can still hit your target even if it was reported as a miss, because the randomly chosen target was directly behind your intended target. (So you get lucky.)
Since you've brought it up I'll look into fixing it. Once I fix it, "misses" at point blank should be even more likely to hit the target anyway.
Post by: Dariush on March 30, 2012, 03:28:35 am
Since you've brought it up I'll look into fixing it. Once I fix it, "misses" at point blank should be even more likely to hit the target anyway.How are you going to fix it?
Post by: Dariush on March 30, 2012, 05:30:10 am
Also, an idea for the future: maybe rate the misses by degree of severity, somehow like this:
The maximum percentage of hitting + 0-5: close miss, the projectile flies at the target;
The maximum percentage of hitting + 5-10: minor miss, projectile flies in the general direction of the target;
...
The maximum percentage of hitting + 30-40: catastrophic miss, projectile flies backwards or explodes under your feet.
For example, if you have a chance of hitting 70% and RNG gives you 79, that would be classified as a minor miss. However, if RNG gives 79 with 40% chance of hitting, that would be a catastrophic miss.
That would IMO prevent strange setups like shot flying backwards at the almost-perfect hit chance of 95%.
Post by: Lord Dullard on March 30, 2012, 05:59:41 am
Post by: Kyzrati on March 30, 2012, 06:39:20 am
It should pick a random target within a reasonable forward range of you; right now it's probably picking from a random area anywhere within a certain range of the target, which would obviously include areas behind you if you are close enough to that target.Since you've brought it up I'll look into fixing it. Once I fix it, "misses" at point blank should be even more likely to hit the target anyway.How are you going to fix it?
Also, an idea for the future: maybe rate the misses by degree of severity, somehow like this:Yeah, it would help to have some visual reinforcement as to how much you missed by. Right now it's pretty random. Wouldn't be too hard to change. No matter your chance of hitting though, shots should never be flying backwards, so once I remove that it'll be less of an issue either way.
The maximum percentage of hitting + 0-5: close miss, the projectile flies at the target;
The maximum percentage of hitting + 5-10: minor miss, projectile flies in the general direction of the target;
...
The maximum percentage of hitting + 30-40: catastrophic miss, projectile flies backwards or explodes under your feet.
For example, if you have a chance of hitting 70% and RNG gives you 79, that would be classified as a minor miss. However, if RNG gives 79 with 40% chance of hitting, that would be a catastrophic miss.
That would IMO prevent strange setups like shot flying backwards at the almost-perfect hit chance of 95%.
After firing from a beam projector the game froze. First there appeared a red line over Cogmind, hang there for several seconds then disappeared and now the game doesn't answer to my commands, however I still can select things with my mouse.Still able to select things with your mouse? Do you mean get scan info by hovering over them? Sounds like the particle engine might've gone into an infinite loop from a bad particle. I thought I had a last resort check on that like X@COM does, but maybe I don't. I'll have a look at the beam projector particle script and see if that might be it.
Right now there still seem to be some inventory-related problems with fix6 as well (Gimlet has provided me with some logs from crashed games), so maybe I didn't get them all. I'm leaving the DL link for fix4 up on the site if anyone new wants to play a more stable version.
Post by: Toaster on March 30, 2012, 09:13:03 am
Post by: Kyzrati on March 30, 2012, 09:21:23 am
Finally, this is what fix5 and fix6 were supposed to be. Pretty sure I've gotten it to the point where it's as stable as fix4 (i.e., you may still encounter crashes/bugs, but they'll be quite rare and shouldn't be related to the new actions/features). Should be pretty playable, I know I just finally played for the first time in several days after doing nothing but coding fixes and mods.
Get fix7 here (http://cogmindrl.blogspot.com/p/files.html):
* FIX: Auto-activation doesn't try to autoactivate inactivatable parts
* FIX: Crash on detaching a permanently active utility
* MOD: Advanced stats mode also shows enemy robot speed in movement time
* MOD: Save game switched to Ctrl-Shift-Alt-s (to make way for a new command set)
* NEW: "Closest armed" robot auto-targeting preference
As long as there's nothing seriously wrong with this one I can get on to adding new stuff. The hotswap pseudocode is ready for action. Tomorrow...
Post by: Rabid_Cog on March 30, 2012, 09:31:17 am
Leaving it as it is, however, seems to be a bit of a waste of its potential, as much fun as it is. Feels as if it needs another dimension to it.
Ideas for features once you are happy with it as it is and done (bored) with working on X@COM:
-New terrain: Tougher/softer walls and ground with effects? Like an acid lake that can be crossed without damage by hovering and flying, or different terrains with different speed modifiers depending on propulsion type.
-Consumable items: Items used directly when picked up or need a specific utility part to carry around (backpack?). Not repair kits, rather something that upgrades a part, changes a slot or gives a temporary bonus to accuracy/speed/resistance.
-Crafting: Not of parts (which would be boring and unnecessary), but what about robots? Have the correct utility part and the right parts in inventory and you can strap them together to create your own pest/serf/warrior/whatever that wanders around.
-Specialist Slots: Projectile (Matter shooters), Energy (energy shooters) weapon slots; Articulate (legs/flight), Fixed (wheels/treads/hover) propulsion slots; Electronic (Targeting computer), Mechanical (Weight Distributor) utility slots; Inductive (Ion Engine?), Reactive (Nuclear Engine?) power slots. These would be in addition to normal slot types, just further restricted.
-Extra Slots: Certain parts could give additional slots, but be themselves vulnerable to getting shot off (in which case anything attached to it drops on the floor). Could give specialist slot types.
-Melee weapons: Not necessarily range 1, just really short range (1-4) but use no matter and produces no heat. Both as backup weapon and just because running around with 4 chainsaws sounds like fun.
Sorry, I can be a bit overcreative sometimes.
Post by: Dariush on March 30, 2012, 09:43:25 am
Idea: make it possible to display some chosen by player parameter near each item in the inventory screen - mass, integrity, coverage and so on.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And I was so close to fifth Factory level...
BTW, I really think flight and hover units energy requirements should be significantly lowered, since they were apparently calculated based on 100% speed. Even if I attach a light ion engine, two flight units and nothing else from the scrapyard, I'll still be losing a whopping 10 energy per turn. Doesn't look balanced at all.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on March 30, 2012, 10:25:54 am
But whatever, It's an awesome game as it is, though I can't get further then lv 3.
Post by: AlStar on March 30, 2012, 10:30:56 am
-Extra Slots: Certain parts could give additional slots, but be themselves vulnerable to getting shot off (in which case anything attached to it drops on the floor). Could give specialist slot types.
I like this one.
Quote from: 10ebbor10
I'd like something that allows me to selfrepair (not sure if balanced)
I also like this, although to avoid it being too powerful, it'd probably have to be broken up into bits, say "core self-repair", "engine self-repair", "propulsion self-repair", etc.
I know that I'd like to have a utility self-repair, so that I don't have to start worrying when my huge inventory-expander goes into the red.
Post by: Lord Dullard on March 30, 2012, 10:40:57 am
Post by: Orb on March 30, 2012, 01:06:19 pm
I have also, never, ever died due to core damage unless I have lost most/all of my equipment(in which case, I was going to die anyway). I know that's kind of a redundant sentence(you can only die from core damage), but I hope my point is made.
Tank builds also cause more destruction. The best way to earn points is to blow up every robot you see. Using this strategy, I made it to floor 4 (or factory 1), with 7k points. I'm sure this is also how the other high scorers operated, based on their score composition.
If repair is implemented though, it should take a lot of time(no combat repair), and cost a lot of matter. It should also cost more and more matter/time as parts get more complicated, making it not viable once you get to late factory.
Post by: Toaster on March 30, 2012, 02:02:03 pm
Also, does utility shielding cover armor plating? That seems like it'd be a nasty combo.
Post by: gimlet on March 30, 2012, 06:48:15 pm
One thing I'd kinda like to see, but only if it could be balanced, is some kind of limited equipment repair. Either toolkits + maybe a skill, or "repair stations" that you put in an item and it gets fixed (or deleted because you fail a security check, or it was too broken (maybe success% scales by how damaged), or something...).
Or degradation something like "Use matter+the Welding Torch (actually something much rarer probably) on the Huge Storage, SUCCESS! Your Huge Storage has been jury-rigged to an undamaged Large Storage!"
And caltrops/mine dropper could be interesting.
I did kind of go samurai with some kind of Plasma Cutter - I wasn't in awful shape but there were NO weapons around, so I picked one up (with its awesome range=3 and targeting -20%) and went a-slicing. So yeah some more like that would be kind of cool...
Ooh question - has anyone had success with the Terrain Scanner/Seismic Interpreter - even if I equip both I can't see any difference in what is displayed - is the low level stuff just not powerful enough? I *think* I tried it with "advanced" type stuff though, and didn't see any difference either?
Post by: Aoi on March 30, 2012, 09:30:14 pm
Yeah if there are any repairs you'll have to be REAL careful to make sure a cogmind can't camp on one level forever (or maybe levels could stop spawning enemies after a while, so there'd be no point - but make an announcement 'cause searching around when that happens would be boring. Even more boring than camping on levels :D).
I don't think things spawn; I've managed to kill off most of a floor by standing in a good place, getting the alarm called on me and killing everything.
Post by: Kyzrati on March 30, 2012, 09:38:13 pm
I disagree with repair, for the most part. The whole game is about scavenging the landscape. Your wheel is yellow? Blast that near by engineer and take his wheel. I always go with wheels since there's always a readied supply, until half way-ish through factory where legs start to get really good.Orb has stated my position exactly.
I have also, never, ever died due to core damage unless I have lost most/all of my equipment(in which case, I was going to die anyway). I know that's kind of a redundant sentence(you can only die from core damage), but I hope my point is made.
If repair is implemented though, it should take a lot of time(no combat repair), and cost a lot of matter. It should also cost more and more matter/time as parts get more complicated, making it not viable once you get to late factory.
Your core integrity is high enough (and gets much higher) that if it gets seriously damaged it's because you 1) don't have many parts and are going to die anyway, or 2) have stayed in a single level way too long.
Later in the game, you can get up to *26* parts. By that point, at an average coverage of 75% per part, your core has less than a 5% chance of being chosen as a target. Assuming enemies have a 60% chance to hit you at all, that's 3% of enemy shots fired which will hit your core, much less damage it. Assuming enemy shots deal about 4% (or less) damage to your core per shot, it would take over 800 shots for them to destroy your core. That is, of course, an extreme example of how protected your core is if you can keep it covered. It's also the situation at the end of the game; at the beginning you are more vulnerable, but it is also easier to escape the first few levels.
As others have mentioned, repair, if implemented at all, would have to be rather rare for balance reasons, in which case it might as well not be there at all.
I was originally considered implementing it as one-time items, or machines you could interact with, but neither of those made it into the game.
No matter how much of a powerful behemoth you build, you'll still be worn down via core damage, so tanking/heavy builds are FAR less sustainable than light, underpowered builds.Not true, see calculations above. I only ever go with the heaviest thing I can build, precisely because it enables me to carry a crapload of armor and other parts to protect my core. Light builds can be entertaining, but IMO tough to maintain. With treads and legs you also don't have to worry much about being overweight, since they'll generally still move at a reasonable speed. I am ALWAYS overweight when I play (I ignore mass completely, in fact, so long as my speed is 80%+, which it usually is with treads/legs).
As much as I'm anticipating the completion of X@COM, Cogmind just has so much promise! The whole concept behind it seems, at least from what I've seen, completely original.If I do them both at the same time, though, that'd slow progress on both, and I don't like slow :-\
For now I'm sticking to getting Cogmind in enough shape to call it a solid game, then we'll see.
Ideas for features once you are happy with it as it is and done (bored) with working on X@COM:Every single thing on your list was in the design docs ;) Just not enough time for it in a 7DRL. You can read the original completion blog post (http://cogmindrl.blogspot.com/2012/03/you-are-cogmind.html) to see a list of some of the things I cut.
-New terrain: Tougher/softer walls and ground with effects? Like an acid lake that can be crossed without damage by hovering and flying, or different terrains with different speed modifiers depending on propulsion type.
-Consumable items: Items used directly when picked up or need a specific utility part to carry around (backpack?). Not repair kits, rather something that upgrades a part, changes a slot or gives a temporary bonus to accuracy/speed/resistance.
-Crafting: Not of parts (which would be boring and unnecessary), but what about robots? Have the correct utility part and the right parts in inventory and you can strap them together to create your own pest/serf/warrior/whatever that wanders around.
-Specialist Slots: Projectile (Matter shooters), Energy (energy shooters) weapon slots; Articulate (legs/flight), Fixed (wheels/treads/hover) propulsion slots; Electronic (Targeting computer), Mechanical (Weight Distributor) utility slots; Inductive (Ion Engine?), Reactive (Nuclear Engine?) power slots. These would be in addition to normal slot types, just further restricted.
-Extra Slots: Certain parts could give additional slots, but be themselves vulnerable to getting shot off (in which case anything attached to it drops on the floor). Could give specialist slot types.
-Melee weapons: Not necessarily range 1, just really short range (1-4) but use no matter and produces no heat. Both as backup weapon and just because running around with 4 chainsaws sounds like fun.
BTW, I really think flight and hover units energy requirements should be significantly lowered, since they were apparently calculated based on 100% speed. Even if I attach a light ion engine, two flight units and nothing else from the scrapyard, I'll still be losing a whopping 10 energy per turn. Doesn't look balanced at all.Hover/flight aren't meant to be very viable for the player in the early levels--do I have to remove those units from the Scrapyard to convince you? :)
Hover/flight was also supposed to be better if there was different terrain, but I didn't get to adding that.
I found a fusion compressor, which converts matter to energy (at a 1:60 ratio- not bad.) Is there a reverse utility?The reverse utility didn't make it into the game. It lives on in the design docs as a "Matter Fabricator". I could possibly add it in later.
Also, does utility shielding cover armor plating? That seems like it'd be a nasty combo.Armor is considered a utility, so yes that works.
Or degradation something like "Use matter+the Welding Torch (actually something much rarer probably) on the Huge Storage, SUCCESS! Your Huge Storage has been jury-rigged to an undamaged Large Storage!"I like that idea--didn't have that one on the list.
Ooh question - has anyone had success with the Terrain Scanner/Seismic Interpreter - even if I equip both I can't see any difference in what is displayed - is the low level stuff just not powerful enough? I *think* I tried it with "advanced" type stuff though, and didn't see any difference either?The low-level ones carried by engineers suck. They're there just to show you more or less how they work. The better ones are definitely very useful: Improved Terrain Scanner + Improved Terrain Scan Processor or better will get you a pretty detailed map of everything over a rather large radius (it happens gradually, and make sure you have both turned on). And if you can find the prototype versions (around level 5+), you'll pretty much be able to see the entire level map perfectly...
Post by: gimlet on March 30, 2012, 10:05:05 pm
Post by: Tarran on March 31, 2012, 01:25:29 am
Or, in other words, similar death Dariush had, minus getting walled in. Except right before I died. Single p bot was a dick and blocked my exit.
Post by: Kyzrati on March 31, 2012, 01:42:39 am
Send me your score record to be added to the high scores! 4/Factory on a second try is already pretty good. With practice people are already making it to 8/Research.
Post by: Tarran on March 31, 2012, 02:10:39 am
Non-EM explosives aren't very effective against Sentries....Darn. There were 3 shock launchers on the level. D:
Send me your score record to be added to the high scores! 4/Factory on a second try is already pretty good.I didn't think it was anything amazing but okay.
Post by: Kyzrati on March 31, 2012, 02:13:52 am
You can always send me a better one later to replace it. I like to see how people are playing and progressing (I haven't had much time to play lately since I'm busy working on the game :()Send me your score record to be added to the high scores! 4/Factory on a second try is already pretty good.I didn't think it was anything amazing but okay.
Post by: Kyzrati on March 31, 2012, 03:58:56 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Tarran on March 31, 2012, 04:05:10 am
Anyway, is it intentional for prototype identifies to carry between games or is that a bug? Because it appears that if you restart without closing the game you'll keep your identifies. Not that I wouldn't test any prototype I find anyway, it's just unusual.
Post by: Kyzrati on March 31, 2012, 04:25:01 am
Post by: Tarran on March 31, 2012, 04:30:23 am
Also of note, I found a Grenade Launcher and two light armor at the start of level 1. Somebody is going to have a very bad day.
Edit: How appropriate, the game spawns a lot of enemies to compensate for my Grenade Launcher. Not gonna stop me.
Edit2: Darn, it got blasted away. Oh well, I caused extreme carnage while I had it. Time to run away like a little girl from now on.
Edit3: Oh lord, I found a room with 4 Sentries.
Post by: Dariush on March 31, 2012, 05:56:32 am
Hover/flight was also supposed to be better if there was different terrain, but I didn't get to adding that.Well, if they're worse than they're supposed to be, shouldn't be they buffed a bit?
And yes, removing them from scrapyard seems like the best idea.
BTW, do you play without detailed logs? o_0
Also, I would be eternally grateful if someone posted a video of getting to Research. Or at least to the second Factory level. :(
Post by: Tarran on March 31, 2012, 06:09:39 am
Lost most of my equipment in the lower levels, something like level 6 or 7. Then I spent several levels just legging(?) it for the up stairs for several levels. Finally met my end cornered in a room, even managing to kill an enemy right before I died. At least I think. It could have been friendly fire.
Post by: Kyzrati on March 31, 2012, 06:45:50 am
They shouldn't be buffed, because they need to carry less and be faster. That's the way they work. I think I'll take them out of the scrapyard to avoid having players think they can start off with such a build. You can find them later.Hover/flight was also supposed to be better if there was different terrain, but I didn't get to adding that.Well, if they're worse than they're supposed to be, shouldn't be they buffed a bit?
And yes, removing them from scrapyard seems like the best idea.
BTW, do you play without detailed logs? o_0I don't play with any detail on the logs at all. Default all the way. So far I even just stick with default targeting preference, but I'm about to change the default to a new "closest enemy" setting--no more row-based cycling at all.
Speaking of Research, I got to level 9 on nothing but my core. I died, sure, but I frigging got there.Impressive run. Everyone can check out his record on the high scores list. Can you really get by with that little power and all those slots? Surprising. Or is that just because you were stacking on a lot of random extra slots at the end while you ran around naked?
Sprinting naked through the levels for the end will get you a fairly good score through evolution points, but you'd have to be either very lucky, or very good to win that way, because... (I'm not going to tell you, you'll just have to find out on the last level ::sinister laugh:: ).
EDIT:
Continued playing that same game. Still wandering around on 4/Factory blasting away everything. And for those of you who don't bother, see how pretty and nice it is to know exactly where the enemies are using high-tech sensors?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: BishopX on March 31, 2012, 07:51:07 am
Post by: Kyzrati on March 31, 2012, 07:56:56 am
Besides, the scrapyard started to look a lot less scrappy with 4 fewer items in it ;)
Post by: Kyzrati on March 31, 2012, 08:57:46 am
* FIX: Missed close-range shots will no longer follow strange trajectories (also fixed a very rare crash related to point-blank shots)
* FIX: Prototype knowledge no longer carries over between new games in the same session
* FIX: Auto-target cycling no longer duplicates first target
* MOD: Item drop code will search a little further from preferred target if necessary
* NEW: Swap action (hotswap attached part with a part from inventory)
* NEW: Options saved on exiting game and autoloaded on restart (incl. audio settings, auto-targeting preferences, log verbosity, advanced stats, auto-activation)
* NEW: "Closest" robot auto-targeting preference (is now default)
Aside from some bug fixes, definitely the most appealing reason to get this release is the extremely useful swap action. Shift-LMB for you mouse users; for keyboard users I combined it with the reassignment command (Ctrl-Shift-a~z/1~6).
This combined with fast attach means you'll never have to do a long string of annoying and unnecessary inventory actions again. You can even safely swap a damaged storage unit out for another, even if the replacement storage unit is inside the one you're swapping it for!
Fix8 should be the most bug-free yet. I've actually played this one, as has my brother/playtester (we didn't have time to play fix5~6, which is why they weren't as reliable).
Now I get to go back and finish my game from earlier :D
Post by: Dariush on March 31, 2012, 09:20:49 am
* FIX: Missed close-range shots will no longer follow strange trajectoriesDoesn't look like a fix - more like a highscore-compatibility-breaking new feature.
Post by: EuchreJack on March 31, 2012, 09:56:57 am
At your request, I'll put them back in. Good thing you wrote, because I just took them out ;) (Didn't know anyone actually found them useful that early, since most of the games I've seen people either don't bother, or just get trashed that way.)
Besides, the scrapyard started to look a lot less scrappy with 4 fewer items in it ;)
Yeah, I totally agree with not taking out flight and hover units from the scrapyard. If nothing else, it at least lets players experiment with these movement types. I'm rather fond of the hover units, myself.
Post by: Kyzrati on March 31, 2012, 09:58:46 am
Nah, it actually has a very tiny impact on whether or not you hit something. It's more a visual change than a mechanics change, and it only impacts about 50% of point-blank shots (range=1), and was important to fix because a percentage of those could crash the game. So if you've had a crash before while fighting up close, that was probably when it would've impacted your score, but you couldn't get that score anyway, because your game crashed... Believe me, I do a lot of close-range combat, and it hasn't gotten any easier.* FIX: Missed close-range shots will no longer follow strange trajectoriesDoesn't look like a fix - more like a highscore-compatibility-breaking new feature.
They're in there, so happy hovering ;)At your request, I'll put them back in. Good thing you wrote, because I just took them out ;) (Didn't know anyone actually found them useful that early, since most of the games I've seen people either don't bother, or just get trashed that way.)
Besides, the scrapyard started to look a lot less scrappy with 4 fewer items in it ;)
Yeah, I totally agree with not taking out flight and hover units from the scrapyard. If nothing else, it at least lets players experiment with these movement types. I'm rather fond of the hover units, myself.
Post by: Kyzrati on March 31, 2012, 10:50:06 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: AlStar on March 31, 2012, 11:05:26 am
Ended up in a not-so-great position as I desperately tried to find some replacement parts.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Peak state was listed as
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
My big break was finding for of those Improved Cesium-ion Thrusters, which allowed me to zip through levels... well, until they all got shot off.
Post by: Orb on March 31, 2012, 11:22:50 am
Or use explosives. Sweet, sweet, explosives.
Also, for material levels, NEVER pass up lgt pulse cannons. They do incredible EMP damage for material levels, and have a cool particle effect.
Post by: gimlet on March 31, 2012, 12:21:48 pm
Also, for material levels, NEVER pass up lgt pulse cannons. They do incredible EMP damage for material levels, and have a cool particle effect.AND +targeting too, right? Yea I squeal with delight whenever I spot those :o
Post by: Tarran on March 31, 2012, 12:49:05 pm
Impressive run. Everyone can check out his record on the high scores list. Can you really get by with that little power and all those slots? Surprising. Or is that just because you were stacking on a lot of random extra slots at the end while you ran around naked?Latter. I was hoping to eventually get lucky and get armed again when I found some propulsion and matter. And I got close at level 8.
Then I got swarmed and had to make a run for it before I even had much time to use the parts I found.
But yeah, you can get around with that little power. Keep your movement high, never stop moving, use non-combat robots as metalshields, don't go down 1-tile halls if you can (or you'll get blocked in), don't go into rooms if you can (or you could get blocked in), avoid heavy enemies (B) when possible, don't fire at your enemy, just run like a little girl and hope that you're at least a little bit lucky. Your core should have enough max HP to tank it hopefully.
Post by: Aoi on March 31, 2012, 01:45:05 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
What kind of equipment do you need to scan for the other droids like that?
Post by: gimlet on March 31, 2012, 01:59:55 pm
Then the Signal Interpreter (which REQUIRES a functioning Sensor Array) will instead make the ?'s show up as the droid symbol - this is AWESOME for knowing what you're about to get into, letting you prep optimally for it.
It's a really handy combo, but does take 2 slots. A lot of times, once I have a sense of what is where, I will swap out at least the SIgnal Interpreter just before combat for something a little more tactical :grin: Even the Sensor Array, but if the combat takes more than a couple rounds that does put you in danger of being swarmed without warning...
Post by: Orb on March 31, 2012, 02:13:21 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I may or may not submit this. Probably will try again later. Also, apparently, quarantine testing beds are worth a lot of rating. And if you EVER see a rocket battery, pick it up. +50% targeting. o_O
Post by: Tarran on March 31, 2012, 02:18:24 pm
Edit: Son of a bitch, I just got surrounded by six Pests in level 2!
Edit2: WHY ARE THERE SO MANY PESTS OH MY GOD.
Post by: EuchreJack on March 31, 2012, 04:08:08 pm
EDIT: I just found an EM Pulse Gun in the Scrapyard! Awesome!
Post by: Huey on March 31, 2012, 05:40:38 pm
So you have sound effects in after a fashion, would it be possible to get some sort of fx for weapons firing and explosions, etc? I don't know if thats possible, but I basically hear the PPC and stuff from Mechwarrior in my head while I play :)
Anyhow, that's my 2 cents, I will probably submit a score file at some point, but I am still desperately trying to get a viable flight setup going lol. The RNG in this game is reminding me of Nethack of all things, very unfair at times, and quite the gift-giver at others.
Post by: Orb on March 31, 2012, 05:53:34 pm
Post by: Kyzrati on March 31, 2012, 08:57:17 pm
I'll talk about modding etc after the initial competition ends.
Welp, my best try yet. Unfortunately, I did NOT pay attention to my core.For the next fix, I'm going to add a warning message and sound if your core is low on integrity. This after I find myself often forgetting about the core as well since it generally takes damage so gradually...
Hi Kyzrati, this game is freaking awesome! So far my best run is still my first, around 12.5k points at factory 6.Thanks! And that's a damn nice score for 6/Factory--patiently awaiting your record sheet (obviously there's still time to improve ;))
The RNG in this game is reminding me of Nethack of all things, very unfair at times, and quite the gift-giver at others.I'm sometimes suspicious of the RNG myself, but every time I go actually look at what it produces in testing, nothing seems out of the ordinary... How strange :-\
Post by: gimlet on March 31, 2012, 08:58:41 pm
The inventory list displays numbers 1-6 but also displays one line above or below when scrollable, could you make 0/7 secretly work the same as the displayed numbers for swaps/drops/equips of those displayed but un-numbered items? (but keep the interface displaying numbers only 1-6 to show that it's scrollable in that direction, of course) - save scrolling when you can SEE the darned thing already :D
More Notification of problems/status on the main screen:
Put the Energy minus Upkeep balance on the Energy Line, turn that part red when negative. Helps when you're turning stuff on/off, and when something got shot away and you didn't notice. Maybe put it at the end, with the movement energy cost too - that would help when swapping in/turning on/off Propulsion items.
Turn the Energy line yellow/orange/red when it's getting low.
Turn the matter line reddish if it's under 100? flash it if under 50?
Turn the core line Yellow/Orange/Red as dropping, flash when under 100? 50? 10%?
Can you tell I kind of like the look where the cockpit is all red flashing danger lights? :D :D
Display the Mass (cur/base)/X on the Movement line - nice to glance at to know when to switch in Propulsion things or turn on Mass Readjustment things, or for that "gee if I just save ONE weight I'd move faster". Where cur/base is like on the Status screen, and the X is the overweight multiplier.
Make the color change on the whole Temperature line so it's more obvious, and if you do the other color change things it will need to be more obvious too - maybe tint a couple of lines/the rest of that panel? Or put it below movement instead of above and tint the blank line below it too?
On the Inventory Panel where it is titled I n v e n t o r y, could you add the (cur/max) right after that title, it's SOOOOO handy to know when a Remove will drop vs go into inventory and when you have room to pick up something.
If there's room, put the part type symbol at the beginning or end of the inventory line, make it easy when looking through the list for the "I need ANYTHING to wear now" or "DAMN I need an engine" times. I suggest making the symbol color the same as the damage status color? Or the item subtype, since the damage status is already on the left?
It would be nice to be able to Sort the inventory - maybe s or shift-S could toggle sorting by Slot Type, Damage Status, Weight? (To help with that "I need the lighest engine/armor I got so I can runnnnn!" and the "I want to drop my damaged junk" "which of my spare legs is least damaged" times, without doing a ton of scrolling back and forth and looking at the detail screens) - maybe put the sort order after the panel title ("by Type", "by Weight" etc)
Since some of this stuff does clutter up the display, maybe make it Toggleable possibly in the F7 display thing? Call it "High Info Display" or "Tacticalized HUD" or something...
In that vein, in that mode display the Core Exposure % as (XX%) on the Core line...
Ctrl-Shift-U or something similar (alt-ctrl-u?) to UNDO the last swap (still charge matter/energy) Handy for when you just want to swap in and test prototypes and then put your previously equipped part back, or you swapped something in and it made things unbearably worse. I think repeated UNDOs should swap the 2 parts back and forth - also handy for swapping in another targetting computer for say a Scan Analyzer or similar... It would be awesome if it tracked the previous part regardless of the Inventory tag since I see the unequipped item goes to the bottom of inventory, where it often takes an extra scroll or 2 to find. POSSIBLY immediate back-to-back undos shouldn't charge the 2nd equip cost since you didn't actually take an action/gain any benefit from just checking your stats in a new configuration.
BOY I wish I could undo a drop item, I move between the mouse (ctrl-number to drop) and the keyboard (ctrl-number to equip), and pretty frequently mix them up and drop something I meant to equip. In this case it would be great if there was an undo-drop that would undo that drop without the action cost. Normally it's no big problem but it can be DAMN painful during combat like when you're running away, accidently drop something precious and it gets dropped a tile away, back towards the enemy - argh! And it's a drag to be shot to bits for an interaction error rather than a genuine tactical error. To avoid abuse this should probably ONLY work without cost if the drop was the immediately preceding action. Maybe alt-ctrl-d(rop)?
Post by: Kyzrati on March 31, 2012, 09:44:55 pm
I'll definitely make most of those additions. I don't want clutter though, at least not by default, so I'll probably add a special "tactical HUD" mode, as you suggest, which provides some of the features which would overwhelm new players (even more so than they already are ;)). Some of the more involved changes I may have to just keep note of for future reference.
Post by: Kyzrati on April 01, 2012, 03:33:41 am
Walked into level 6:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Tarran on April 01, 2012, 03:41:39 am
Or are you just so full up on armor that you can simply outlast the enemy?
Post by: miauw62 on April 01, 2012, 03:42:17 am
i love these kind of games.
Also, when i saw system corruption, i was instantly thinking about portal 2 xD
I'll sure try it one day!
Post by: Kyzrati on April 01, 2012, 06:07:57 am
Not to question the dev's strategy, but aren't you a little short on firepower?No problem, ask away!
Or are you just so full up on armor that you can simply outlast the enemy?
The key to my own strategy is to make sure I only fight enemies one-on-one, in which case a few weapons should be plenty since nothing can best Cogmind in single combat. That's why I find sensors invaluable--to keep me from running into larger groups of enemies.
Even up against a group, though, if you plan it right you can still fight them more or less one on one by tactically forcing them to come at you that way (block them in doorways or narrow hallways, for example). And I always, always carry a powerful launcher and start using it to soften up unavoidable groups that threaten to swarm me.
Having a ton of armor also helps ;) (although it's really quite hot and I need to lay off the energy weapons--one cooling system is way insufficient) And I was happy to take that B's treads off him in the previous level.
EDIT: Yay, 200th thread post! And in only one week, whoa...
EDIT2: Found me a new sensor array, and this one's a prototype--now that's range! Have the full set of scanning gear now, minus the prototype terrain scanner which would enable me to spot an exit up to 50 spaces away. Right now all I have is 35 ::)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Toaster on April 01, 2012, 11:09:34 am
Post by: Aoi on April 02, 2012, 01:40:37 am
Record:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Commentary:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Tarran on April 02, 2012, 02:13:26 am
Jooooiiiiinnnn uuuuussssss...
Post by: Huey on April 02, 2012, 03:23:20 am
I also submitted my best score so far, of note was the stash of Biomechanical Wings I found on the 4th floor. Those with a pair of KE Penetrator's borrowed from a couple of hunters served me pretty well, until I had my wings removed :)
Code: [Select]
Cogmind (7DRL fix2) - Attempt #3
---[ CORE DESTROYED ]---
Performance
-------------
Evolutions (4) 2000
Robots Destroyed (377) 1885
Value Destroyed (8666) 8666
Prototype IDs (21) 105
TOTAL SCORE: 12656
Cogmind
---------
Core Integrity 0/700
Matter 144/300
Energy 22/50
System Corruption 5%
Temperature Cool (0)
Location 5/Factory
Parts
-------
Power (1)
Propulsion (6)
Biomechanical Wings
Biomechanical Wings
Biomechanical Wings
Cesium-ion Thruster
Utility (5)
Experimental Terrain Scanner
Weapon (3)
Inventory
-----------
Cesium-ion Thruster
Light Nuclear Core
Peak State
------------
Power
Light Anti-Matter Reactor
Propulsion
Biomechanical Wings
Biomechanical Wings
Biomechanical Wings
Biomechanical Wings
Biomechanical Wings
Biomechanical Wings
Utility
Experimental Sensor Array
Targeting Computer
Targeting Computer
Improved Target Analyzer
Weapon
Improved Proton Missile Launcher
KE Penetrator
KE Penetrator
Stats
-------
Classes Destroyed 11
Workers 60
Builders 37
Tunnelers 7
Haulers 18
Recyclers 22
Watchers 21
Swarmers 74
Grunts 83
Sentries 38
Hunters 9
Programmers 8
Behemoths 0
Matter Collected 9664
Salvage Created 17510
Parts Attached 275
Power 37
Propulsion 96
Utility 59
Weapon 83
Parts Lost 150
Power 15
Propulsion 62
Utility 34
Weapon 39
Core Damage Taken 1951
Volleys Fired 1087
Largest 3
Hottest 106
Shots Fired 2095
Gun 1500
Cannon 441
Launcher 154
Special 0
Kinetic 1593
Thermal 129
Explosive 89
Electromagnetic 284
Highest Temperature 355
Shutdowns 1
Energy Bleed 0
Interference 0
Matter Decay 0
Short Circuit 1
Damage (minor) 0
Damage (major) 0
Damage (core) 0
Highest Corruption 5
Message Error 16
Data loss (log) 19
Data loss (map) 18
Data loss (database) 24
Haulers Intercepted 18
Tactical Retreats 48
Turns Passed 13849
0/Scrapyard 43
1/Materials 2352
2/Materials 2119
3/Materials 3605
4/Factory 3859
5/Factory 1871
Prototype IDs
---------------
Heavy Ion Engine
Heavy Deuterium Engine
Enhanced Nuclear Core
F-Cell Engine
Improved Flight Unit
Improved Jet Thruster
Heavy Particle Gun
Advanced Beam Rifle
High-powered Electrolaser
Improved Heavy Laser
Improved EM Shotgun
Heavy EM Shotgun
Precision Shock Rifle
Advanced Beam Projector
Cooled Particle Cannon
Improved Assault Rifle
Mini Assault Cannnon
Rocket Battery
Experimental Sensor Array
Experimental Terrain ScannerAnyway, that is that so far. Maybe I will surpass it soon, but the last few games haven't gone so well lol.
Post by: Orb on April 02, 2012, 06:07:29 am
Unless your score decreases over time, which would be an interesting discovery, I found that new bots enter the scrapyard every 100-ish turns once all the other ones are dead.
Now, whether destroying these bots or not increases your score, I did not test, but I'm going to take a gander that a 7 day project didn't include that. Otherwise, you're a very fast coder, and can make an impressive game to boot.
Anyway, I thought I'd mention it. Its kind of obvious if you did look at someones score ("Spent 10k turns in Scrapyard").
Post by: qwertyuiopas on April 02, 2012, 07:22:42 am
Post by: Aoi on April 02, 2012, 10:43:40 am
Now, whether destroying these bots or not increases your score, I did not test, but I'm going to take a gander that a 7 day project didn't include that. Otherwise, you're a very fast coder, and can make an impressive game to boot.
Just tested it. It works.
Post by: AlStar on April 02, 2012, 11:01:52 am
Now, whether destroying these bots or not increases your score, I did not test, but I'm going to take a gander that a 7 day project didn't include that. Otherwise, you're a very fast coder, and can make an impressive game to boot.
Just tested it. It works.
Hmm, I wonder what the best fix for that would be.
As I see it, there are two different options:
1) Make it so any points earned in the scrapyard are not counted. This has the upside that it doesn't invalidate prior scores (unless someone was farming the scrapyard, which as Orb said, it should be fairly obvious if someone hangs around for more than a couple hundred turns.)
2) Change the scoring formula to include the total number of turns, with more points for less time taken. This will discourage farming in general, on any level, and encourage players to move on ASAP. It will also completely muck up the current scoreboard.
1 seems like a good short-term fix, but honestly, I'd want to move in the direction of 2; mostly to prevent people from getting massive scores by taking 2k turns on each floor, hunting down every last robot.
Post by: Kyzrati on April 02, 2012, 11:08:34 am
I'll try and get something out there soon.
Twice now I've had it crash after digging to the edge of the map and then killing something. Not really a problem (I've never made it far, and it's fairly easy to avoid).Ah, I'll look into that one. (It also helps if you can be a bit more specific about what you were doing. Was the enemy at the edge of the map or were you? Were you firing an area-effect weapon? Etc. Anything you can tell me that might be more specific and help narrow down the cause.)
I don't think you tested it long enough to realize there's no exploit, because the scrapyard does not spawn robots indefinitely. A few fixes ago I added a couple extra waves of Tunnelers that show up later is all. I did that simply so that anyone waiting around to watch the level generation wouldn't have to wait quite so long. I'm looking at the code right now: They arrive in 3 waves, once every 200 turns, thus you won't see any new ones after turn 600. Just hold down the wait key for 600+ turns and you'll see what I mean.Now, whether destroying these bots or not increases your score, I did not test, but I'm going to take a gander that a 7 day project didn't include that. Otherwise, you're a very fast coder, and can make an impressive game to boot.
Just tested it. It works.
Oh god.Someone finally made it to Command. Not the most elegant ascension, but you got there nonetheless :)
Record:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Commentary:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: qwertyuiopas on April 02, 2012, 11:44:08 am
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26846767/images/cogmind-crash.PNG)
The enemy was at the %, and there were already items on the ground.
Post by: Aoi on April 02, 2012, 12:37:22 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on April 02, 2012, 06:15:27 pm
Sorry I haven't been around much the past couple days, guys. No progress on fixes, either. My son was just born today so I've spent most of the past 48 hours hanging around at the hospital with the wife.
Congratulations!
Post by: Kyzrati on April 03, 2012, 06:54:56 am
The enemy was near the edge. Got a screenshot:Thanks!
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26846767/images/cogmind-crash.PNG)
The enemy was at the %, and there were already items on the ground.
Also thanks ;DSorry I haven't been around much the past couple days, guys. No progress on fixes, either. My son was just born today so I've spent most of the past 48 hours hanging around at the hospital with the wife.
Congratulations!
Ah. I stuck around for three waves, headed up and suicided. So they do give points... they just don't spawn infinitely. =PYeah, they give points, but seeing how differences between adjacent high-score earners are currently several hundred to a thousand points, it's probably not worth it since it doesn't do much for your score to kill a few extra Tunnelers ;)
Post by: AlStar on April 03, 2012, 10:21:30 am
I think it'd really help if Cogmind regenerated matter.
It doesn't have to be fast.
It doesn't even have to be very much.
But I think that there's a real gameplay benfit to making sure that you always have enough matter to attach a part.
I just had a really good game (score ended up a mere couple hundred points off my high score) that was killed when I ran out of matter and was unable to even attach a weapon so that I could kill an unarmed enemy somewhere to get some scrap. I ran around for the better part of a level and a half looking for a pile of scrap.
I eventually found some, but by that point all of my improved and experimental items had been blown off and I didn't stand much of a chance.
An alternate would be to give Cogmind the abilites of a basic recycler (10 matter if part lost), which would assure that you'd pretty much always have at least enough matter to put yourself back together.
Post by: Toaster on April 03, 2012, 09:09:36 pm
That or a default terrible popgun that is barely enough to kill a serf before it yells enough to summon an army, but I think the former is better.
Alternately, a process to turn a part in inventory into matter- perhaps at a 1:1 mass:matter ratio so it'd be useless most of the time.
Post by: Kyzrati on April 03, 2012, 09:58:46 pm
Just today I received an email referring to the same problem. I'll do something about it soon, but not before the first tournament ends, because that would definitely not be fair to previous high score earners. I'll probably go with giving Cogmind basic recycling abilities for lost parts. The next fix will also have extra alerts for low resources, so it'll be easier to avoid problems like that. When I play I always make sure to switch to energy weapons if I'm afraid my matter will drop too low.
A reminder to anyone participating, or planning to participate and still haven't e-mailed me a record: The last day to send in your record for the current tournament is April 8th (Sunday)! I'll definitely keep accepting high scores after that and add them to the chart, but I'm going to do a post about winners and their achievements based on the records I've received by then.
Post by: micha on April 03, 2012, 10:02:37 pm
/my exp is that i overextended to get into that situation and that i get away 3 out of 4 times when that happens. the times i've died then were cause I had no energy or speed left.. which then 'cost' me say 100 core damage for rushing. If I could buy a chance to record another retreat by attaching an engine for 20 core-damage, i'd take that and think it 'in-character' for the game. thoughts??
while we're suggesting things...
* since there is no way to go elsewhere from the Shift-X detailed info screen, I suggest that pressing Shift-X twice(an even number of times) will FILTER the inventory to show me only items of the same type as X. (if it would work the same way for the # details, that would just be great!)
Post by: Aoi on April 04, 2012, 02:23:28 am
how about "with insufficient matter available, attaching an item results in 2 points of core-damage per unit of missing matter"
I like that. The Cogmind is cannibalizing chunks of itself to jack it on. Makes more sense than spontaneously generating matter out of nowhere. On the other hand, if we're talking about theme and realism, it'd make even more sense if we could just disassemble working components into raw parts, though that'd probably be bad for balance.
Post by: Kyzrati on April 04, 2012, 07:21:02 am
About having an extra way to ensure you have matter to attach something, which do you guys want more, the core damage or a free bit of recycled matter on part destruction? I would say the core damage might fit in a little better, since there are already utilities for recycling. But I think free recycling might cause fewer problems for players, being a bit less complicated and having no negative effects.
* since there is no way to go elsewhere from the Shift-X detailed info screen, I suggest that pressing Shift-X twice(an even number of times) will FILTER the inventory to show me only items of the same type as X. (if it would work the same way for the # details, that would just be great!)Shift-x twice would still open the info window, though (engine does not support separate commands for repeated keys). I'm going to go with gimlet's suggestion to enable inventory sorting, which should satisfy most needs. What are you referring to by "# details"?
Post by: micha on April 04, 2012, 11:11:26 am
i didnt like the sorting because it would make its own 'work' because of the inevitable scrolling. but if the inventory was always sorted and *you* would have the engine scroll the inventory for us when in a detail screen (Shift-Letter or # (#details)) then if would just 'work' and be obvious without pressing keys twice.
speaking of keys, right now I find myself scrolling to the bottom of the inventory a fair bit because I like to pick up before i attach. if you 'filter' the inventory on (currently displaying kind of thing) then the need for a [jump to the inventory top/bottom]-key wouldn't be so great. (perhaps.. Alt-[] pgup/down and Ctrl-[] home/end in inventory)
Post by: micha on April 04, 2012, 11:22:42 am
I've probably noticed that i had no matter 1 in 5 times of it happening because I was probably reaaaaaalllly slow and overheating at the same time too. I just left levl 6 with 26 points in core remaining. Had I been able to mount 2 wheels for even 40 damage, I would probably have gotten away with 100..200 points left in core; the 'free' matter would have been used up on yet another 'last' shot :)
Died on lvl 7 with just over 20,000 points. Proof by sunday if I can't do better until then <GGGG>
Post by: AlStar on April 04, 2012, 12:45:53 pm
Died on lvl 7 with just over 20,000 points.
That's pretty damn impressive - what'd you do? Tank up then completely clear every single level of all enemy robots as you worked your way up?
As a side note, tesla bombs kick ass. Big AoE, low mass requirements, can (and will) blow holes in walls, and is +salvage, unlike pretty much every other AoE that I've found. Great for blowing away groups of enemies when you'd actually like to take their stuff. The launcher itself is, sadly, big and fragile. I found a container robot full of the things, and went through all 4 that I'd picked up in just two floors.
Post by: micha on April 04, 2012, 01:22:04 pm
and yeah, the launchers are awsome but whatever my plan for the game might have been at any one time, the very fact that I wound up having a plan would make me overconfident for say.. the first dozen or so runs. now I just equip what i find to get coverage and try for very long range where i blast near the enemy.. or the crevice thing where i'm right next to them. after lvl 5 my only valued posession was the thingie that takes corruption away.
i kinda wish the bots would forget about you or be less astute in cutting you off, but then again if they were more forgiving then soon i'd be off to another stupid rambo death. crossing your fingers, blasting walls and staying back seems to work. oh, and not killing friendlies that you can hide behind, not until they try to wall you in anyway.
"COGMIND, you never know what youre gonna be" ; fun!
Post by: Aoi on April 04, 2012, 02:38:30 pm
I think I'll aim to escape Command instead of aiming for the high score then. =P
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on April 04, 2012, 02:46:51 pm
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 04, 2012, 03:28:36 pm
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on April 04, 2012, 05:00:28 pm
Anyway my video is here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUYMAaoK7wk&feature=colike)
Post by: micha on April 05, 2012, 05:15:54 am
I think I'll aim to escape Command instead of aiming for the high score then. =P
first to discover and escape would make for cool bragging rights Aoi :)
Post by: Kyzrati on April 05, 2012, 10:04:02 am
>What are you referring to by "# details"Now I get it. By "# details" you meant the inventory item data. That's a good idea. I'll add repeat-key support to the engine and do this. Sorting would still be useful for other purposes, though.
i didnt like the sorting because it would make its own 'work' because of the inevitable scrolling. but if the inventory was always sorted and *you* would have the engine scroll the inventory for us when in a detail screen (Shift-Letter or # (#details)) then if would just 'work' and be obvious without pressing keys twice.
For the next fix I was going to add forward/reverse sorting by type/integrity/mass possible. I can add an inventory beginning/end seek command as well. Advanced stats mode (which will be renamed to "tactical HUD") also shows the item type symbol next to each. Fix9 is mostly complete, except for the sorting.
Definitely would be an impressive feat. In terms of points, Micha's latest run is dominating the chart right now. For any Cogminds aspiring to make the complete surface run, I will tell you now that 10/Command is the last level. If you can find the exit (and there is only one ;) ), you'll be free!I think I'll aim to escape Command instead of aiming for the high score then. =Pfirst to discover and escape would make for cool bragging rights Aoi :)
Anyway my video is here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUYMAaoK7wk&feature=colike)Oooh, a video. I'll check this one out soon.
Post by: Aoi on April 06, 2012, 02:37:13 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Strategy:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 06, 2012, 02:39:25 am
Post by: Tarran on April 06, 2012, 03:11:57 am
Looks like my second place on the high scores was short lived! :P
Post by: Aoi on April 06, 2012, 03:35:46 am
All hail Aoi, the number one Cogmind and first winner!
Hey now; micha's still well in the running [20k on L7?!] and I haven't emailed my record in yet. Who knows, my system might kerplode itself by the time I actually send it in. =P
(And thank you for that note, micha... I was putting off submissions until I went as high as I can go. I think I'm going to stop here though, so you have a solid bar to aim for!)
Edit: Oh hey! Just saw you submitted a new high score, micha! ...And that is painfully high; we've got a difference of only 323 between us!
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on April 06, 2012, 03:51:56 am
Post by: buckets on April 06, 2012, 04:48:00 am
Post by: Tarran on April 06, 2012, 04:55:44 am
F2 turns off the mouse.
Post by: Kyzrati on April 06, 2012, 06:36:59 am
All hail Aoi, the number one Cogmind and first winner!Definitely very sweet. You can share your strategy after the competition, then I can fix whatever exploit you found, if there is one ;)
Just kidding. Unless it's something stupid I overlooked, there's a fine line between exploit and good strategy! (By design there are ways to make a sprint through the last level a bit easier, for the non-tank types out there.)
Great job Aoi--looks like you barely made it out alive at the end there!
Doesn't run for me in linux, for some reason. Can't be the dlls- I already have those.Hm, I actually don't have any confirmation of Cogmind running on linux yet, and haven't tried it myself. I know earlier versions of X@COM worked, but that was before I modified the engine to include sound and archive file access, which may have affected something. Anyone else out there gotten Cogmind working on linux?
Under windows, make sure you've met all the requirements, like running as administrator to give Cogmind write access, and avoid running the game from a path that contains non-English chars.
Post by: Kyzrati on April 06, 2012, 07:09:49 am
Lots of useful UI improvements (amazing how there never seems to be an end to these...):
* FIX: vi-keys work in examine/fire mode
* FIX: 'x'/'s'/'d' can be used to exit/close their respective modes/windows
* FIX: Help screen can also be exited with ESC
* FIX: Matter no longer dropped on top of other items
* MOD: Auto-targeting preference cycling switched to 'w'
* MOD: Quit w/out save switched to Alt-F4
* NEW: Tactical HUD mode, includes inventory capacity and mass allowance right on the HUD, along with core exposure and net energy use
* NEW: Alerts for low resources
* NEW: Inventory sorting by type/mass/integrity (t/m/i)
* NEW: Ctrl mod for inventory scrolling skips to beginning/end (Ctrl-[/] or Ctrl-Wheel)
* NEW: Mouse warping can be toggled off
* NEW: Added more information to Advanced Player's Guide
Still no score-breaking changes (so switching to the new version is not mandatory, though recommended, as always). It's mostly just stuff aimed at making play more fluid and accessible (though for the forgetful player, extra resource alerts should somewhat improve survivability).
Among the UI mods postponed to a later release there's optional auto-sorting for the inventory while viewing item info, the "undo swap" command, and a more obvious temperature indicator.
I didn't get around to finding/fixing any of the remaining crashes, but at least fix9 shouldn't have introduced any new problems because it is mostly easy mods which have already been tested.
Good luck for the last 3 days, everyone!
Post by: Kyzrati on April 06, 2012, 11:09:14 am
* FIX: Forgot to change quit key message on results screen (F4->Alt-F4)
* NEW: Inventory autosorting (F6)
Get Fix10 (http://cogmindrl.blogspot.com/p/files.html)
Post by: Aoi on April 06, 2012, 11:27:58 am
Post by: Kyzrati on April 06, 2012, 11:31:15 am
Post by: Toaster on April 06, 2012, 12:10:19 pm
At one point, I had three Proton Missile Launchers equipped. That was glorious.
Post by: Toaster on April 06, 2012, 02:28:27 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
A consideration for a post-tourny change: a command to push past robots. Enemy bots can pass you- why not the reverse?
Post by: Kyzrati on April 06, 2012, 07:54:53 pm
Ouch.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
A consideration for a post-tourny change: a command to push past robots. Enemy bots can pass you- why not the reverse?
A few days ago I added to my list the ability for flight propulsion to allow you to fly over robots, to give flying some other kind of realistic advantage since as is those parts are a little underpowered. With the right fast build, that would make sprinting to the end a bit easier, too, for players that want to do that.
Post by: Aoi on April 07, 2012, 04:06:13 pm
A few days ago I added to my list the ability for flight propulsion to allow you to fly over robots, to give flying some other kind of realistic advantage since as is those parts are a little underpowered. With the right fast build, that would make sprinting to the end a bit easier, too, for players that want to do that.
That WOULD totally change things. I prefer taking hovering [purple] since energy tends to be plentiful in the later stages, even with only 3 power, the parts are pretty common and you tend to get at least decent mobility with them. In direct contrast to treads, which are pretty rare and slow, even at their best. Having said that, starting with treads, before you get the good hovers, worked out well for me.
I didn't see many flight units, but the ability to fly over units might make it worthwhile to hold onto the few semi-decent ones I see for emergencies. Extra points for the ability to quickly put other units between you and fire.
Post by: eerr on April 07, 2012, 04:52:10 pm
Cause it has the little orange tracks symbol for wheels and then it's an ion engine...
Very annoying when I loot stuff :/
Post by: eerr on April 07, 2012, 08:06:12 pm
to read to the same part.
Visual scan and current tile scan should be seperate.
Post by: Kyzrati on April 07, 2012, 08:16:15 pm
Are the mis-labeled scattered parts fixed yet?Hm... No one's reported this problem before, and I've never encountered it. It seems like confusion surrounding scan data misinterpretation, caused by your next comment:
Cause it has the little orange tracks symbol for wheels and then it's an ion engine...
Very annoying when I loot stuff :/
*allowing both the mouse cursor, and walking on the tile.True, current tile scan should be separate, and normally I would've done that, but I couldn't easily find the extra room on the HUD during the initial dev phase, so I combined the two.
to read to the same part.
Visual scan and current tile scan should be seperate.
I believe you're having a problem with the mouse cursor being visible while you move around, and whatever item the cursor is hovering over it always shows that in the scan data. So you might think it's showing what's under you, but it's not, hence the assumption that parts are "mislabeled". Due to the way scan data is updated, I can't force it to show what's under you (I tried to hack a fix way back at the beginning, but it didn't work very well so I removed it)--the only way to have that work properly is to hide/F2 to cursor and stick with the keyboard. Otherwise you'll have to pay attention to where the cursor is while moving. Sorry about that, but I don't think it's going to be fixed.
Post by: eerr on April 07, 2012, 10:01:17 pm
Maybe put it back where it came from, or a default spot? like the ui, or centered on kog?
Post by: Kyzrati on April 07, 2012, 10:06:38 pm
Post by: eerr on April 07, 2012, 11:38:33 pm
Post by: Geen on April 08, 2012, 03:58:01 am
Post by: Kyzrati on April 08, 2012, 04:37:19 am
I'd like it if base accuracy without sensors or whatever was a bit higher, because for realism's sake I should not have a less than %30 chance to point blank someone with an assault rifle.There are a lot of factors that go into hit calculations, and in my experience under standard conditions at point blank you should rarely have less than 50%, much less 30%.
Now if you're overheating, and/or your target is small, flying, and moving very fast, then you shouldn't necessarily have better than 30%, if that, even at point blank. It's a turn-based game where everything looks static, but it does take into consideration relative movement rates and other things not reflected visually, so the idea of "realism" in this case can be a bit deceiving. Some players are perhaps annoyed at having difficulty hitting Swarmer class bots, but they are, after all, tiny little things zipping around in the air... (intended to annoy you ;) ). That's when you pull out the explosives.
Use 'q' to get full detail on how hit chance is calculated (manual2 lists the components identified in the log), find out exactly what is causing your low hit%, and try to resolve that issue.
Post by: Kyzrati on April 08, 2012, 09:34:13 am
[Scores will be accepted after the tournament as well (the list will be updated indefinitely), but the achievements are only going to be handed out as part of the tournament in my next blog post.]
Post by: Elmzran on April 08, 2012, 02:10:57 pm
I also made a topic for the game on my own forum community, found here (http://planetoid3.tastyhamgames.com/index.php?topic=4321). Everyone seems to be enjoying it so far; one of my friends who has always had an aversion to roguelikes is also enjoying Cogmind.
Post by: Tarran on April 08, 2012, 04:07:05 pm
May I suggest moving it away from F10, or adding a warning to committing suicide? Because one mistake on pressing the buttons and you're dead instantly, with no way to undo it.
Post by: Kyzrati on April 08, 2012, 06:34:50 pm
Kyzrati, I noticed that turning off sound is F11, next to suicide (F10).Yeah, I've been adding so many options in all these fixes, and there used to be nothing over by F10, but now all the F-keys are getting full (there are even more used for the upcoming fix11, which has some new options). I'll probably switch F10 to Alt-F10 since you don't need it very often. That should keep people from accidentally killing themselves just to turn off the sound ;)
May I suggest moving it away from F10, or adding a warning to committing suicide? Because one mistake on pressing the buttons and you're dead instantly, with no way to undo it.
Submitted my High Score, currently 10th. Hopefully I'll get an achievement :Dbadger_pl just pushed you out of the top 10, but you might still get an achievement, we'll see. I decided on about 15 meaningful/interesting achievements which won't necessarily go to top score earners, but will be waiting on the official end of the competition to see who actually earns each one (only one player per achievement).
Post by: Tarran on April 08, 2012, 08:06:31 pm
Post by: Kyzrati on April 08, 2012, 08:15:34 pm
Quick question: What exact time do you consider to be the end of today? Because I'm going for one more run.Well, for me in Asia April 8th is long over, but for contest purposes it's only fair that I consider April 8th anywhere in the world, so everyone's still got some time. Go for it ;)
Post by: Tarran on April 08, 2012, 08:32:33 pm
Post by: Kyzrati on April 08, 2012, 08:41:03 pm
Rating is not calculated anywhere, it's just a manually set number which is the same thing as level, primarily intended for internal random selection purposes, but I figured it's still useful to show it to the player as a quick way to compare items. Just remember to give prototypes a +1 or so when comparing. I'd do it automatically, but I'm not sure if that would be very accurate in all cases.
Post by: Toaster on April 08, 2012, 08:46:18 pm
Post by: Aoi on April 08, 2012, 08:50:17 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Aoi on April 08, 2012, 08:53:01 pm
Prototypes are generally equivalent to or slightly better than a common item that is one rating level higher (or even far better for some of the rarer awesome prototypes you can find in the late game ;D ).
*shakes fist* In all my games, I've found ONE prototype 'special weapon', on Research/8... and I destroyed it since I was attacking with cannons at the time.
I STILL wonder what on earth makes it 'special'. :'(
Post by: Tarran on April 08, 2012, 08:54:03 pm
I think the prototype designation that's already right there is sufficient. The fact that you had to "ID" it and it was potentially "cursed" makes it an "enchanted" item, to put it in more familiar RL terms.Not really. One ID reveals them all, faulty and functional, for the rest of the game. And often the bad effects aren't serious as far as I'm concerned. And even when IDing, the chance of you getting a faulty one is not that high.
Post by: Aoi on April 08, 2012, 09:00:12 pm
Not really. One ID reveals them all, faulty and functional, for the rest of the game. And often the bad effects aren't serious as far as I'm concerned. And even when IDing, the chance of you getting a faulty one is not that high.
In addition, you'll only know the rating after you test it.
Until you end up with system corruption, and you find yourself IDing the same stuff over and over...
Faulty equipment can be quite terrible-- having important equipment damaged at a time when it's difficult to replace can be downright fatal regardless of how unlikely faulty prototypes are. (Which I'd have to say is dangerously common.) I became so reliant on a few vital pieces of equipment that I decided to just waste the time/matter to remove them and put them on again after every prototype.
Personally, I ignored the ratings for the entire game, instead looking at the actual values. Some pieces are particularly valuable, even far closer to the surface like Cold Fusion Reactors. (No heat, and will never shut down to heat, as I recall.) Their output is pretty low (especially their capacity) but it means you can get off an extra shot or two or run away without running out of power.
Post by: Tarran on April 08, 2012, 09:06:37 pm
Anyway, besides that, just because the faulty versions of an item suck, doesn't mean that the fully functional version is also worse. Think about it. If there was a tank better than the M1, but 2/5 are faulty, is the entire tank class worse than the M1 even though the functional ones are clearly better?
Post by: Kyzrati on April 08, 2012, 09:23:39 pm
Research/Command, and my strategy!:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
If it makes you feel better, there are no prototype special weapons. Your system corruption made you forget about a normal welding torch or plasma cutter ;D The only "special weapons" I added were those that aren't really weapons at all, but can be used as weapons, hence the "special" designation. I could've called them "Tools" or something, but I wanted to make it obvious they are equippable in your weapon slots.Prototypes are generally equivalent to or slightly better than a common item that is one rating level higher (or even far better for some of the rarer awesome prototypes you can find in the late game ;D ).
*shakes fist* In all my games, I've found ONE prototype 'special weapon', on Research/8... and I destroyed it since I was attacking with cannons at the time.
I STILL wonder what on earth makes it 'special'. :'(
The very powerful prototypes I was referring to in the late game are weapons like the Null Cannon, Omega Cannon, and Point Singularity Launcher, all of which can completely obliterate enemies (especially the last one, which can take out an entire army in no time if you've got the matter supply--with the right armament you could turn "The Death Room" into your playground ;) ). There are some very nice experimental utilities as well.
In my personal experience, I have never seriously been screwed over by prototypes. And I try prototypes immediately whenever I'm safe. Really.I think Aoi is just referring to the fact that a faulty item which malfunctions on you can damage (or in some cases even destroy) some other attached part, which does really suck if it's a rare part that's vital to your build. That can affect you even outside combat.
Anyway, besides that, just because the faulty versions of an item suck, doesn't mean that the fully functional version is also worse. Think about it. If there was a tank better than the M1, but 2/5 are faulty, is the entire tank class worse than the M1 even though the functional ones are clearly better?
Post by: Tarran on April 08, 2012, 09:29:05 pm
If it makes you feel better, there are no prototype special weapons. Your system corruption made you forget about a normal welding torch or plasma cutter ;DOh that is just evil. :D
I think Aoi is just referring to the fact that a faulty item which malfunctions on you can damage (or in some cases even destroy) some other attached part, which does really suck if it's a rare part that's vital to your build. That can affect you even outside combat.I know.
I still don't remember any traumatizing moments where a faulty part messed me up so bad that I'd be more catious.
Post by: Aoi on April 08, 2012, 09:38:24 pm
If it makes you feel better, there are no prototype special weapons.
Aww. I thought there might've been some exceptionally rare weapons that have unique effects, like firing through walls [only really useful if you have sensors...] or firing a transponder at another robot, making them think it's you for a short time or just a guaranteed one-use instant kill [BSOD floppy? =P]
Post by: Kyzrati on April 08, 2012, 09:41:23 pm
I still don't remember any traumatizing moments where a faulty part messed me up so bad that I'd be more catious.True, I usually don't worry about it myself, either, though I try to only test prototypes outside combat just in case. Aoi is just uber-cautious... That's why he's the first to successfully escape 8)
Cool ideas for the design notes ;) (I was going to add floppies with one-use programs to the game, but dropped that as well.)If it makes you feel better, there are no prototype special weapons.Aww. I thought there might've been some exceptionally rare weapons that have unique effects, like firing through walls [only really useful if you have sensors...] or firing a transponder at another robot, making them think it's you for a short time or just a guaranteed one-use instant kill [BSOD floppy? =P]
Post by: Aoi on April 08, 2012, 09:57:20 pm
True, I usually don't worry about it myself, either, though I try to only test prototypes outside combat just in case. Aoi is just uber-cautious... That's why he's the first to successfully escape 8)
I like how I'm considered uber-cautious right after I said 'Kind of went in on a prayer...' =P
Post by: Kyzrati on April 08, 2012, 10:21:54 pm
Post by: Tarran on April 09, 2012, 12:48:44 am
And of course, my death is similar to my first time in Research: out of stuff, and surrounded by everyone. Seems to be a reoccurring theme.
I tried so hard to find the stairs, but it was like the RNG put the stairs all the way on the other side of the level because I just could not find it.
Spoiler: Record for those who are interested (click to show/hide)
Post by: Kyzrati on April 09, 2012, 01:45:03 am
Well, my final run is done. And crap, I didn't move up any. :P Oh well, at least I have more score and I got further through to Research.Definitely a good game! Tough to jump from 3rd to 2nd the scores being what they are. Aoi and Micha were pretty persistent ;)
And of course, my death is similar to my first time in Research: out of stuff, and surrounded by everyone. Seems to be a reoccurring theme.Spoiler: Record for those who are interested (click to show/hide)
I'm kinda busy right now, but your score will be up later.
I tried so hard to find the stairs, but it was like the RNG put the stairs all the way on the other side of the level because I just could not find it.Heh, it may surprise you to know the RNG is not responsible for the stairs; if that makes you feel better ;) (Actually, I guess that that means I'm responsible for your inability to find the stairs :o) I'm not giving out any details, though.
Post by: Toaster on April 09, 2012, 07:55:25 am
Post by: Tarran on April 09, 2012, 12:42:25 pm
The Materials stairs are usually at the end of a 3-tile wide hallway, often around a short bend, for example.Yes, that seems to be the case on all the levels from Materials to Research.
Post by: eerr on April 09, 2012, 03:45:32 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Kyzrati on April 10, 2012, 12:14:53 am
Fix11 already has a fair number of improvements ready, but I still want to add some larger fonts before release (so you can play at higher resolutions).
Post by: AlStar on April 10, 2012, 12:58:07 am
Let's hear it for quick violence!
Post by: Aoi on April 10, 2012, 01:35:47 am
Post by: Kyzrati on April 10, 2012, 09:31:47 am
Neat stuff - didn't think I'd end up with any achievements after I got kicked down to 6th place, scorewise.The achievements chosen reflect play style more than ability, and you pretty much blew everyone away in the death-dealing category (only a.f. was close behind you, and you guys were a good 30% ahead of the pack). You must've been destroying everything you saw :)
Let's hear it for quick violence!
I really like your little icons used for the achievements. =PThanks :D
Post by: Kyzrati on April 11, 2012, 01:44:20 am
Post by: AlStar on April 11, 2012, 08:59:50 am
I definately think one or the other should be added, just because running out of matter (especially if you're out of weapons or only have matter-based weapons equipped) can be so crippling.
Post by: EuchreJack on April 11, 2012, 09:03:10 am
I thought it was an interesting run, so I was sort of reluctant to replace it. Fortunately, none of my later runs exceeded it success-wise. Glad I still ended up in the top 10, even if barely.
Post by: Kyzrati on April 11, 2012, 09:29:25 am
Glad I still ended up in the top 10, even if barely.You would've actually been pushed off tenth for the tournament if Heart-of-Darkness hadn't sent in his better score one day late, so lucky you ;)
Quote from: EuchreJack
Cogmind Notable Achievements: Researcher, Power Monger, Escapist, Skirmisher, ScavengerAnd I love your new signature, btw :D
What can I say? I'm a curious coward.
Just because I don't see it mentioned in the blog post, are you still planning on giving Cogmind either the ability to sac some hitpoints or an intrinsic minor recycling ability so that running out of matter (ie, not being able to attach a part) isn't as much of a problem?Yeah, I considered writing that into the post, but I decided to instead wait to see if anyone would bring it up again. It's on my list of probable changes. I like the idea of cannibalization, but I think I'm going to give the recycle ability to keep it simple. It normally takes 10 to attach, so I was thinking of giving 5 back for default recycling? Not sure about giving a full 10, which could make it too easy to keep running around picking up parts for a long time, especially if you have an inventory full of parts which would act as a semi-infinite partial shield. What do you guys think?
I definately think one or the other should be added, just because running out of matter (especially if you're out of weapons or only have matter-based weapons equipped) can be so crippling.
Post by: EuchreJack on April 12, 2012, 12:54:59 am
Just giving Cogmind 5 matter per item unequip should be a simple and effective method to assist with matter shortages. One question, does "getting item blown off" count as an unequip? If not, that should probably give some small amount of matter, maybe 1 or 2, as it is the scenario when all my stuff gets blown off and no matter is stored that leads to "game over".
Post by: AVE on April 12, 2012, 06:44:53 am
If you press Enter on evolution screen while not upgrading anything, it simply exits to playscreen doing nothing. Actually in first playthrough I lost 2 evolution upgrades to this bug (and was mauled by bots soon afterwards), thinking that I must "earn" upgrades , through selecting what I need to upgrade in each evolution (and upgrade slot unlocks from at least second or third point invested into each slot type).
So, I propose a warning about undistributed evolution points while pressing Enter on evolution screen.
Post by: Kyzrati on April 12, 2012, 08:32:51 am
Just giving Cogmind 5 matter per item unequip should be a simple and effective method to assist with matter shortages. One question, does "getting item blown off" count as an unequip? If not, that should probably give some small amount of matter, maybe 1 or 2, as it is the scenario when all my stuff gets blown off and no matter is stored that leads to "game over".Actually, that's the only scenario where I was thinking to give matter--not for unequipping, but only when you get something blown off. Since you are more likely to be able to recover/recycle matter when there's a lot more debris. Just taking something off would give you nothing back.
A small bug (or oversight) found in fix10.Hm, that's weird. I could've sworn I had prevented that from the very first version (since the confirm button doesn't even appear until you have chosen all the upgrades). I thought pressing Enter wouldn't allow you to go onward until then, either. I'll look into it and it'll definitely be fixed in the next version. Thanks for the report!
If you press Enter on evolution screen while not upgrading anything, it simply exits to playscreen doing nothing. Actually in first playthrough I lost 2 evolution upgrades to this bug (and was mauled by bots soon afterwards), thinking that I must "earn" upgrades , through selecting what I need to upgrade in each evolution (and upgrade slot unlocks from at least second or third point invested into each slot type).
EDIT: I just looked at the code, and sure enough I did code that check, but I forgot to put brackets around the if-statement contents, so it was allowing the window to close anyway... Sheesh. Fixed for fix11. Coding a game in 7 days sucks =P
Post by: Kyzrati on April 14, 2012, 06:31:04 am
Probably the most interesting and meaningful quick change on my list is giving a flying Cogmind the ability to push past blocking robots. Anyone have any opinions? It'll probably make it a lot easier to escape as a fast flier. Doesn't seem very imbalancing--you wouldn't be able to score as many points that way, anyway.
I'm going to add it now for testing and try to fly my way to the end...
EDIT1: Sheesh, this is crazy... moving at 1428% speed now... that's more than 14 cells/turn! I'm moving so fast these guys can't even see me (entering and leaving their FOV before they have a chance to update their visual sensors).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Just have to make sure to rest up engines in hiding/safety, then blast out past everyone. It's a little easier now that you're allowed to fly over robots. Also added option to auto-wait when moving on insufficient energy. (This Gravity Neutralizing Apparatus is absolutely essential, too.)
EDIT2: I died in Research. Dangerous to round corners without sensors -> Come face to face with a couple Behemoths and... goodbye engines. I think I'll go back to being a tank again ::)
Post by: Kyzrati on April 14, 2012, 09:14:22 am
* FIX: Doors outside FOV always shown as closed
* FIX: Pressing Enter has no effect during evolution until all new slots are chosen
* FIX: Better missing config file handling
* MOD: Single-space map shifting no longer allowed via vi-keys (overlapped with part detachment--use Shift mod to jump instead)
* MOD: Suicide/restart moved to Alt-F10 (to avoid accidents)
* NEW: Cogmind automatically recycles 5 matter per destroyed part (when he has no better recycling utility)
* NEW: While flying, Cogmind can rush past blocking robots
* NEW: Large fonts/resolution (see manual2.txt)
* NEW: Sprite mode (F3, see manual2.txt for details)
* NEW: Autopathing (F4)
* NEW: Autowaiting (F5)
* NEW: Reswapping (Shift-Alt-r)
* NEW: Undo drop (Shift-Alt-d)
* NEW: HUD flashes heat line as overheating becomes more serious
* NEW: More stats stored in record sheet (favorite parts, kill streaks, play time, inventory use)
* NEW: Toggle to force cursor centering on move (Ctrl-F4) (always centers cursor on Cogmind during movement to ensure the scan window shows the item at his current position--has no effect while cursor is hidden, in which case the scan window always works this way by default)
* NEW: Modding guide (modding.txt)
As stated on the blog, this is the final candidate. The next version will probably be the last.
For those who want to add weapon sounds or make your own sprites, read modding.txt. There's also supplementary information in there for anyone who would like to make some kind of online parts database for everyone to reference.
For anyone who still plans to send in scores, note that while old versions are still accepted, you probably want to upgrade to fix11 since it is ever-so-slightly easier (also less frustrating) with the free recycle benefit.
Post by: Elmzran on April 14, 2012, 09:39:54 am
There's also supplementary information in there for anyone who would like to make some kind of online parts database for everyone to reference.
I'm definitely interested in doing this. I could host it off another Subdomain of my site, if that's good with you.
Post by: Aoi on April 14, 2012, 06:19:26 pm
I also added in some additional notes as to what labels mean, if I didn't find them intuitive enough. Also, I had to tweak the descriptions of things slightly such that exporting to tab-deliminated didn't cause things to kerplode.
Hrm. Can't upload files here. Well-- dumped it to GDocs. Hope nothing broke in the process. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsKtQkfz6x48dEQyZ2g5VVlPWEhzaTAwaGRFYTRfN3c
Post by: Kyzrati on April 14, 2012, 08:09:49 pm
I dumped it into Excel for people who prefer working in data tables that way. You SHOULD be able to dump it back out as a tab-deliminated file, but I haven't actually tested it yet due to various reasons on my end.Totally thanks for doing this Aoi. Looks like you eventually got it working; hopefully Elmzran or someone else will make good use of your work.
I also added in some additional notes as to what labels mean, if I didn't find them intuitive enough. Also, I had to tweak the descriptions of things slightly such that exporting to tab-deliminated didn't cause things to kerplode.
Hrm. Can't upload files here. Well-- dumped it to GDocs. Hope nothing broke in the process. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsKtQkfz6x48dEQyZ2g5VVlPWEhzaTAwaGRFYTRfN3c
If you're done making changes, I can also host the Excel file on my site.
Host it anywhere you like! I'll definitely put a link to it on the Cogmind site.There's also supplementary information in there for anyone who would like to make some kind of online parts database for everyone to reference.I'm definitely interested in doing this. I could host it off another Subdomain of my site, if that's good with you.
Post by: Aoi on April 14, 2012, 08:24:05 pm
Every equipment description, except for the mining laser and prototypes had a comma, so it took me a bit to figure out what was going on... then I tried a few fixes. Ultimately culminating in just editing the description so there's now a comma in it.
Any thoughts about giving a way to change what the Cogmind starts with, either directly or what the junkyard spawns?
Post by: BishopX on April 14, 2012, 08:32:40 pm
Post by: Kyzrati on April 14, 2012, 08:39:43 pm
The problem is that, ultimately, there's no easy way of having Excel export to tab-deliminated with double quotes... unless the cell in question has a comma.Sheesh, how annoying...
Every equipment description, except for the mining laser and prototypes had a comma, so it took me a bit to figure out what was going on... then I tried a few fixes. Ultimately culminating in just editing the description so there's now a comma in it.
Any thoughts about giving a way to change what the Cogmind starts with, either directly or what the junkyard spawns?Scrapyard spawns are controlled internally, so no luck there, but it's pretty easy to change
entities.xt to modify what Cogmind starts with. In fact, if you look at the file I even left in (commented out) some of the builds I was using to test/debug with. (Some are ridiculously powerful, or don't make much sense, but I was just testing specific features.) There should be only one non-commented Cogmind entry in entities.xt, and it should be the first (non-commented) entry.
You can even add new robots (to existing classes) in entities.xt and they will be automatically placed by the game based on their class and level. (Threat, 1~5, determines their color only.)
Adding new items to items.xt is also allowed, and they'll be automatically randomly placed by the game.
I think customized descriptions for the parts would also be nice, There's a lot of wasted space in the item description screen devoted to very basic information about game mechanics.Yeah, I would normally have done custom descriptions, but I only had 7 days, and there are 400 items... At 1 minute per item description (optimistic), that would've taken me over 6 hours. But I figured something was better than nothing, so I decided to throw in at least a basic description. I'll do real descriptions if I want to put out a non-7DRL version some day.
Post by: Elmzran on April 14, 2012, 08:47:01 pm
Host it anywhere you like! I'll definitely put a link to it on the Cogmind site.
Sounds great! I've started work today. A few life interruptions prevented me from getting as much done as I want, but It's coming along. It'll be an HTML page using some Javascript to make the tables sortable. Basically, the main page will be a large table, containing all the items, but only a few stats for each. One can then click on an item to see its full stats on another page. There will also be an additional page that will be one massive table; pretty much the items.xt / that excel document put in a nice, easily readable and sortable table form.
I'll have it done, or at least quite a bit of it done later tomorrow.
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 14, 2012, 09:48:45 pm
Post by: Kyzrati on April 14, 2012, 10:09:46 pm
So, any update on how to run it on wine? I've not had any success with it so far :/I've got confirmation that it works under Wine as described. Did you by any chance accidentally use "unrar e" to unpack the game? "unrar x" would be the proper command.
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 14, 2012, 10:54:26 pm
I got an "Unhandled exception: unimplemented function msvcp100.dll.?_Orphan_all@_Container_base0@std@@QAEXXZ called in 32-bit code (0x7b83bc32).
Register dump:" error.
However, I DO have that file in wine system 32...
Gah, maybe using Ubuntu's wine repositories in debian wasn't such a bright idea. But so far it had kind of worked...
Post by: Aoi on April 15, 2012, 02:14:12 am
Is there any particular reason why passive/autoactivate items can't have upkeep?
How about a way to corrupt the user, or set a degree of corruption from the start?
Post by: Kyzrati on April 15, 2012, 04:32:06 am
Gah, maybe using Ubuntu's wine repositories in debian wasn't such a bright idea. But so far it had kind of worked...Sounds like it has something to do with your Wine setup... Sorry I can't help much on that front since I don't use linux. If/when I ever get X@COM building on linux, I could do a Cogmind linux ver, too, but don't wait for it.
A few thoughts while modding:Unfortunately it would be a problem because items should autodeactivate when you have insufficient energy for upkeep, but the game won't be able to deactivate them because they are passive. It would normally work fine, but since I didn't create any such items, I assumed in the code that wouldn't be an issue and didn't put a solution for that contingency. I'm not quite sure what will, but even if the game does manage to deactivate them when necessary, some other part of the game may assume they're always active, depending on the item. One example would be inventory capacity mods, which I don't think even check for item activation state.
Is there any particular reason why passive/autoactivate items can't have upkeep?
One feature I didn't use which you could consider is giving some items matter upkeep while active--there's an items.xt entry for it but all values are 0. Lots of interesting possibilities there.
Also, I only gave Utilities abilities for the game, to keep it simple, but technically any item can have an ability effect. I don't think it would cause any problems, anyway...
How about a way to corrupt the user, or set a degree of corruption from the start?Presently there's no way to have a robot start corrupted unless I add a new entities.xt entry. I'd do it for the final version, though Elmzran might get mad at me because he's already making a database from the current files =P
Post by: Aoi on April 15, 2012, 04:51:25 am
-----
Deep within the city, robots on the verge of independent sentience remember a story. Invariably, the story is the same. Nobody knows where it first came from, but every robot that awakes knows it.
Somebody called The Cogmind. A metamorphic robot, able to learn and adapt to all equipment and situations. One that left the Overmind's city for a distant place known as the surface.
It started out unarmed, deep within the junkyard. As it continued its struggle towards the surface, it grew more and more powerful, picking up pieces along the way and scattering its old, outdated parts in its wake.
Some robots hated the awareness this freedom brought and sought out the Overmind to return them to blissful ignorance. Others believed in the story and climbed upwards, following in The Cogmind's footsteps.
And some? They realized that the story is wrong. The Cogmind doesn't exist. No, what exists are cogminds. Not a singular, mythic entity, but a new robot, a new form, and a new intelligence.
You are a cogmind, and unlike the first to escape, you aren't charging upwards through the core of the Overmind's forces blindly and unprepared. No, you'd obey and do your job... all while gathering parts, components, and pieces to make your way out easier.
But you're not like the others. Those others you've heard about, they were big and strong. No, you awoke as a swarmer. Move fast and strike hard, carrying little more than what you can attach to your core. That's how you'll have to escape. That's the only way out.
-----
Been tinkering with things a bit and put together something that I find to be interesting... Tinkering with balance will be VERY required.
Changes:
A smaller, weaker Cogmind. (Smaller size, less integrity, tiny inventory, no heat dissipation [until you level up a bit], no free starter slots beyond the equipment you start with, less energy/matter storage.)
Significantly shorter sight on everybody.
Equipped with a super sensor/interpreter, a very powerful short range weapon and a mid-range beam weapon that cools you down... but costs matter. (Practically indestructible, unless you overheat or use bad prototypes.)
Matter containers and heat sinks pretty much don't exist, unless you manage to salvage them off of somebody else. (Good luck... their size is increased, so destroying them is now that much more likely.) [At least, they SHOULDN'T, if I've got how this works correctly.] Terrain scanners have been removed entirely.
All reactors now take a tiny bit of matter to power. Energy is no longer free!... with one exception. A very rare exception. Or you can try and shoot it off a B-99.
I haven't changed much else, but the dynamic has changed quite a bit. The name of the game is now stealth and heat management. Your weapons are very powerful, but it's unlikely you'll be able to use them much for at least the first few floors. The watchers have, by far, the longest range [16, quadruple what your vision is...] so evading them is quite important.
...Sleeping now. Will probably make further changes tomorrow, when I'm not feeling so tired.
http://minus.com/m00YIerDd/
Post by: Aoi on April 15, 2012, 04:59:47 am
A few thoughts while modding:Unfortunately it would be a problem because items should autodeactivate when you have insufficient energy for upkeep, but the game won't be able to deactivate them because they are passive. It would normally work fine, but since I didn't create any such items, I assumed in the code that wouldn't be an issue and didn't put a solution for that contingency. I'm not quite sure what will, but even if the game does manage to deactivate them when necessary, some other part of the game may assume they're always active, depending on the item. One example would be inventory capacity mods, which I don't think even check for item activation state.
Is there any particular reason why passive/autoactivate items can't have upkeep?
Ahh... one of the things I put in (or at least tried to) was equipment that consumed resources just by having it equipped, even when inactive. I decided to just make its activated state more costly though.
Also, I only gave Utilities abilities for the game, to keep it simple, but technically any item can have an ability effect. I don't think it would cause any problems, anyway...
Heh! I was going to play with that tomorrow actually. I'll report back if anything goes horribly, horribly wrong.
Woot! Thanks!How about a way to corrupt the user, or set a degree of corruption from the start?Presently there's no way to have a robot start corrupted unless I add a new entities.xt entry. I'd do it for the final version, though Elmzran might get mad at me because he's already making a database from the current files =P
Post by: Kyzrati on April 15, 2012, 07:48:18 am
Put together a prototype for mod with a slightly different flavor...Wow, this sounds cool. I like the idea (it also hints at the ending message you get when you beat the game, which only you have seen at this point). It makes me want to make the game more moddable, but I didn't start out with modding in mind for this one, so it's missing a lot...
Matter containers and heat sinks pretty much don't exist, unless you manage to salvage them off of somebody else. (Good luck... their size is increased, so destroying them is now that much more likely.) [At least, they SHOULDN'T, if I've got how this works correctly.]Increasing an item's size should have that effect, at least relative to other parts. However, one thing I should tell you about the entities.xt exposure values: the "negative" values for enemy robots (unlike the positive value for Cogmind), tell the game to calculate the core exposure such that its hit chance is equal to that percentage, given whatever starting parts you've put on that robot. This makes it much easier to control how easy it is to hit and damage a given robot's core, rather than having that value be totally opaque (or at least difficult to calculate) for the designer. Ex: Serf has "-50" core exposure--that means the game will calculate whatever core exposure is needed to result in a 50% chance to target/hit the core, assuming all the Serf's starting parts are intact.
no slots beyond the equipment you start withWhat do you mean by this? You don't gain slots from evolution? All the evolution mods are controlled internally, including slots gained. I could externalize slot upgrading if you need me to, though.
Post by: Aoi on April 15, 2012, 12:49:31 pm
Yep! I was intentionally playing off of that, actually. (Though I went with the implication that the default game is the first cogmind to escape.)Put together a prototype for mod with a slightly different flavor...Wow, this sounds cool. I like the idea (it also hints at the ending message you get when you beat the game, which only you have seen at this point). It makes me want to make the game more moddable, but I didn't start out with modding in mind for this one, so it's missing a lot...
Ahh... so, for the purposes of enemy robots, increasing the size increases the odds that a particular part is hit, but it won't modify the odds of a part being hit, vs the core. Got it.Matter containers and heat sinks pretty much don't exist, unless you manage to salvage them off of somebody else. (Good luck... their size is increased, so destroying them is now that much more likely.) [At least, they SHOULDN'T, if I've got how this works correctly.]Increasing an item's size should have that effect, at least relative to other parts. However, one thing I should tell you about the entities.xt exposure values: the "negative" values for enemy robots (unlike the positive value for Cogmind), tell the game to calculate the core exposure such that its hit chance is equal to that percentage, given whatever starting parts you've put on that robot. This makes it much easier to control how easy it is to hit and damage a given robot's core, rather than having that value be totally opaque (or at least difficult to calculate) for the designer. Ex: Serf has "-50" core exposure--that means the game will calculate whatever core exposure is needed to result in a 50% chance to target/hit the core, assuming all the Serf's starting parts are intact.
Oh, heh. Bad wording on my part. You start off with 2 utility slots and 2 weapon slots. No propulsion, no power. Evolution proceeds as usual. (Interesting side effect I discovered: Even if you set slots to zero, you automatically gain them if you set starting parts. That is, the slot doesn't disappear if you remove a part. However, you can't put anything into that slot... so it's listed as unused, but it can't be used.)no slots beyond the equipment you start withWhat do you mean by this? You don't gain slots from evolution? All the evolution mods are controlled internally, including slots gained. I could externalize slot upgrading if you need me to, though.
Edit: On second thought, letting us change what happens upon evolution would be good. Personally, I'd like to ditch that heat dissipation upgrade...
Edit 2: New version. Readme included that details change a bit more verbosely. Patched a few errors, added some new stuff. Made it up to floor 5 before I accidentally blew up my weapon by overheating. Oops. [Pulled on the grounds that bots aren't spawning where I want them to. Hrm.]
Post by: Kyzrati on April 15, 2012, 09:50:26 pm
Interesting side effect I discovered: Even if you set slots to zero, you automatically gain them if you set starting parts. That is, the slot doesn't disappear if you remove a part. However, you can't put anything into that slot... so it's listed as unused, but it can't be used.Yeah, I just went with the assumptions I had set down while creating the original dataset, so Entity auto-equipping on startup doesn't bother to actually check requirements, and the parts window is based purely on what you actually have when it's created.
Edit: On second thought, letting us change what happens upon evolution would be good. Personally, I'd like to ditch that heat dissipation upgrade...That's a pretty easy addition, since it could fit into entities.xt.
bots aren't spawning where I want them to. Hrm.I'd like to make this possible, at least the ability to control what spawns (since it's not as easy to control location--only the game's few special rooms have set placement, while everything else is just thrown in there randomly). Doing this would require adding more data files, though. I'll think about it. The next version might have more stuff for modding, since you're so into it ;D
Post by: buckets on April 16, 2012, 02:54:42 am
Post by: Kyzrati on April 16, 2012, 07:30:47 am
A small request, can you make the restart/suicide button have a prompt? It's a little despiriting to accidentaly suicide when you're aiming to hide the mouse.A similar request was made earlier, and a change was made in fix11. Are you using the latest version? Some F-keys were switched around--now the only Alt-F key combinations are suicide and quit. F2 is hide mouse; seems hard to mix up F2 and Alt-F10 (or Alt-F4).
Post by: Aoi on April 16, 2012, 11:49:37 am
bots aren't spawning where I want them to. Hrm.I'd like to make this possible, at least the ability to control what spawns (since it's not as easy to control location--only the game's few special rooms have set placement, while everything else is just thrown in there randomly). Doing this would require adding more data files, though. I'll think about it. The next version might have more stuff for modding, since you're so into it ;D
I would've guessed that the level at which types start spawning at would be related to Level or Threat in entities.xt, but I was seeing Watcher/9/4 and Hunter/9/5s showing up as early as floors 2 and 4, respectively. Is it related to something else?
Post by: Kyzrati on April 16, 2012, 08:59:17 pm
While strapped for time during initial development, I made the following assumptions about entities.xt (I'm pulling this from my comments in the code):bots aren't spawning where I want them to. Hrm.I'd like to make this possible, at least the ability to control what spawns (since it's not as easy to control location--only the game's few special rooms have set placement, while everything else is just thrown in there randomly). Doing this would require adding more data files, though. I'll think about it. The next version might have more stuff for modding, since you're so into it ;D
I would've guessed that the level at which types start spawning at would be related to Level or Threat in entities.xt, but I was seeing Watcher/9/4 and Hunter/9/5s showing up as early as floors 2 and 4, respectively. Is it related to something else?
// 1: all Ents are grouped by class in .xt
// 2: all Ents are listed in level order within their class
// 3: there are not multiple Ents of a single level in the same class
I'm not sure what will happen if not all of these conditions are met. (Threat is only used for coloring--no impact on placement.)
Post by: Aoi on April 16, 2012, 09:56:25 pm
I'm not sure what will happen if not all of these conditions are met. (Threat is only used for coloring--no impact on placement.)
Well! I'll see if I can answer that! =P
Post by: Kyzrati on April 16, 2012, 10:06:29 pm
Haha, well, I'm just really busy, otherwise I could look at the code and figure it out for sure. A quick checks show me that if you fail to meet req#1, all subsequent groups of the same Ent will be ignored for placement purposes. The entity selection code used a stupid straightforward method rather than some interesting scaling/percentage-based randomization, because the latter would've taken more than a few minutes to put together... I wouldn't want to change it now, since it could affect the difficulty.I'm not sure what will happen if not all of these conditions are met. (Threat is only used for coloring--no impact on placement.)
Well! I'll see if I can answer that! =P
I'm working on fix12 right now, which is mostly about more interface improvements and making the UI more mouse-friendly, and I'll probably add a new .xt file especially for modding some internal game mechanics values.
Post by: Kyzrati on April 20, 2012, 10:37:48 pm
* FIX: Inventory item integrity properly colored in Tactical HUD mode
* FIX: Hauler payload only put inside Hauler (was also dropping a stack on the ground, oops)
* FIX: Examine/look mode only toggled in keyboard mode (when cursor hidden), always active otherwise
* FIX: Cursor position on map always highlighted while cursor visible
* FIX: Various cursor-related errors
* MOD: Mouse movement fully enabled (left-click a direction to move that way even when enemies present)
* MOD: Center map on position switched to Shift-LMB
* MOD: Spacebar prioritizes closing of windows over message control
* NEW: Get/Fast Attach commands for mouse (LMB/Ctrl-LMB on Cogmind's position)
* NEW: Wait command for mouse (use Wheel in map window to pass turns)
* NEW: Close status/info windows with RMB
* NEW: Path visualization (hold ctrl-shift)
* NEW: Scan window shows more item details
* NEW: Finished Advanced Player's Guide (manual2.txt)
* NEW: Sprite support for robot scan signals
* NEW: Robots can start corrupted (for modders, entities.xt)
* NEW: Greatly expanded moddability (see modding/modding.txt)
This version could also be known as the "mouse junkie's update", since there are a lot more commands, including movement and picking up, which are possible with the mouse. Mouse/keyboard modes are slightly more distinct now (mostly in how look mode works), so make sure you choose the one you want with F2. (Keyboard mode is off by default, because I assume those users will be a bit more savvy about turning it on...)
I suffered through relying almost solely on the mouse for input during a couple of long test games, and unfortunately still haven't come across any crashes. It would be immensely helpful if someone who uses the mouse a lot could give me specific instructions on how to reliably cause a crash, so I can fix it for the final version. (They seem fairly rare, especially once you know the proper commands, so the problem probably has something to do with an accidental press or some non-standard input behavior.)
Aoi (and other modders?) can also now change much more about the game, as fix12 includes methods for modifying previously unexposed game mechanics.
Post by: Aoi on April 20, 2012, 11:08:07 pm
Aoi (and other modders?) can also now change much more about the game, as fix12 includes methods for modifying previously unexposed game mechanics.
Squee~.
Post by: Kyzrati on May 09, 2012, 01:44:39 am
You can read about it here (http://cogmindrl.blogspot.com/2012/05/grand-finale.html).
Post by: Kyzrati on December 16, 2012, 08:47:50 am
Though without dev support there isn't any Cogmind discussion anymore, it was definitely a good time back in the day (feels like an eternity rather than only six months ago...). The game still gets new downloads every day, and even a couple players have taken the time to send in scores even though it was a lot more fun during the tournament ;p
Post by: EuchreJack on December 16, 2012, 04:21:36 pm
Post by: Kyzrati on December 16, 2012, 07:53:57 pm
Post by: Dariush on December 17, 2012, 06:18:34 am
Threw a vote in.
Post by: buckets on December 18, 2012, 07:24:50 am
It's already been eight months? o_0
Threw a vote in.
Damn guy, the contents of that spoiler are vicious. :I
Post by: Kyzrati on December 28, 2012, 07:35:24 am
It's already been eight months? o_0Thanks Dariush, EuchreJack, and others! The poll is almost over and it looks as if Cogmind will easily be the highest-voted 7DRL release of the year! Of course, I did run a tournament and the game had quite a following during post-7DRL development, so it's not that much a surprise, but hey, it's nice anyway. Makes me want to go back and work on it as a proper roguelike, but X@COM got more votes ;p
Threw a vote in.
Post by: puke on March 02, 2013, 09:05:52 pm
I was planning on trying to go stealth, but I found a EMP Blaster (grenade launcher) and got an experimental Heavy Ion Engine off of a transport on the second level. The thing was great, blows away anything I can see, and if I cant see them I can just shoot near a corner where I think they might be. I got a little cocky on the fourth level after I found some armor, and now I dont have as many of my premium toys. Might have to start searching for those stealth components after all.
Post by: Lap on March 02, 2013, 09:48:42 pm
Post by: Kyzrati on June 27, 2013, 06:11:23 pm
Over the past few weeks I've been seriously considering reviving this project, albeit
1) re-written from scratch (so it'll take a little while to get off the ground again)
2) with new content including gameplay elements, sound effects and small yet professional sprites
3) as a commercial project (full version no longer free!)
I can't promise it will happen with absolute certainty yet because life is a bit bumpy right now, but hopefully when the bumping stops I'll be in a position to get this rolling.
I've already got a long list of things to put in, or consider, but need to distill it for those that will keep the relatively tight gameplay found in the original. The list already includes everything previously mentioned in this thread. General ideas will be posted soon.
What do you think? I wonder if there's enough support out there to make this a successful game... Not that I'd be looking to make huge amounts of money on it--just enough to cover costs and I'd be happy, though some profits that could be put towards additional future projects would be nice.
Post by: Girlinhat on June 27, 2013, 06:23:39 pm
Very fun game, it's got a SOLID engine (particularly like the terrain sensor function!) but as far as roguelikes go, it's a bit 'fast paced' and I personally can't get into it much... Then again I never tried looking at mods so *shrug*.
Post by: Aklyon on June 27, 2013, 06:34:33 pm
Post by: Orb on June 27, 2013, 08:27:18 pm
For a more balanced opinion, I'm not sure how well it would sell. Games like these seem like they sell better on the mobile market.
Post by: gimlet on June 28, 2013, 02:25:53 am
I could never make progress. As much as I like these sort of things, the inability to repair items means that the best laid plans WILL fail and it becomes entirely to the luck of what you pick up in the next few minutes. So as much as I wanted to get into some good gear and spec out a decent build, I quickly realized that making a build was impossible and the only way to do anything was to make a mad dash to the exit.For sure in the early/middle levels, IF you can stand the time it takes, it's pretty viable to play very conservatively and completely/near-completely clear levels, then go around gathering the best of the stuff into 4 of the big backpacks before going down a level. (Lots of armor, some of the better short range weapons, a couple engines, and some spare legs/wheels/wings are sure nice) Then try to get to an edge or corner or slightly defendable area, drop most of the spares and backpacks and get into combat configuration. Then make brief thrusts out of the area, knowing you have a nice stockpile to fall back on if you have to.
Eventually I had trouble with this because of area-damage weapons blowing up my precious stash, although at least some of the problem was me not being careful *enough* using the longest range sensors to scout enemies, not using optimum configs to take 'em out fastest, and not retreating quick enough when in trouble. At some point it does seem necessary to switch to speeding through, but I think with careful play that would be only the last 3-4 levels. And yea you do have to be ready to switch to other configs - an Uberconfig is fun while it lasts, but parts WILL get shot up and you're in trouble if you're not ready with a plan B.
The downside is it takes excruciatingly long, once I get back in the swing I will probably limit it to the middle levels, only picking up "enough" spares before going down on the easier levels...
Post by: Mesa on June 28, 2013, 03:24:06 am
One thing, though - WHERE THE HELL CAN I SEE THE DAMN CONTROLS?
I'm kinda struggling, but the mouse support is a neat thing to have.
Also, killing excavators is a dickish thing to do, but damn I love mining!
Post by: Kyzrati on June 28, 2013, 04:53:43 am
My personal, selfish opinion is that you should never work on any game except X@Com (Six Echo).My personal, selfish opinion: Fate should bestow unimaginable wealth on me through the lottery because I'd much prefer to just work on X@COM (maybe Six Echo) full time (this is an unlikely scenario given that I don't play the lottery).
For a more balanced opinion, I'm not sure how well it would sell. Games like these seem like they sell better on the mobile market.
I don't think it would sell exceptionally well, either. As long as it could perform okay, though, it's definitely something I can finish in a reasonable amount of time, and as a bonus continue testing/expanding/improving the shared engine for X@COM. Right now one thing's for sure, I won't have the money to continue putting much time into X@COM for a while, so I've been imagining making at least some kind of progress on related efforts based on the assumption that I could use a much-polished Cogmind to at least make some money, which has unfortunately become a prerequisite goal for the use of my time of late.
While Cogmind's quicker pace is probably something you'd be more likely to find in the mobile market, the required UI (both visually and control-wise) is not. The current mechanics would need to be totally redesigned for mobile, and I don't think this particular game could be as fun given the restrictions of those platforms. (Plus the idea is to use my existing engine to save on development time.)
I could never make progress. As much as I like these sort of things, the inability to repair items means that the best laid plans WILL fail and it becomes entirely to the luck of what you pick up in the next few minutes. So as much as I wanted to get into some good gear and spec out a decent build, I quickly realized that making a build was impossible and the only way to do anything was to make a mad dash to the exit.Not every game's for everyone, of course. While gimlet's got a viable (albeit occasionally tedious) strategy, you do have a very valid point about the fragility of builds in general. It can be difficult to maintain a particular type of build for long in a lot of scenarios, since getting shot to pieces can be difficult to avoid (especially later on).
Very fun game, it's got a SOLID engine (particularly like the terrain sensor function!) but as far as roguelikes go, it's a bit 'fast paced' and I personally can't get into it much... Then again I never tried looking at mods so *shrug*.
That said, part of the appeal for some players is, I think, making the best of what you find. And I wouldn't say it's "impossible" to make and maintain a certain build, just... difficult depending on your strategy. Ideally you're supposed to be avoiding as many enemies as possible, anyway, not fighting them.
Re-designing the game to enable you to always keep your build intact (not necessarily what you're suggesting, I'm just bringing it up for discussion's sake) would really change the game, pushing it more towards the everyday "deck your PC out with equipment, fight your fight, rest up, repeat" cycle. Having to frequently rebuild and adjust keeps the game dynamic and unique. Cogmind was definitely intended as a faster-paced roguelike, so the gameplay fits in that regard.
Some plans I've got so far which address related issues:
- It will be possible to use machines in the complex to fabricate prototypes from blueprints, as well as probably manufacture normal items you've encountered before, so you could theoretically use this system to more easily maintain a certain kind of build.
- One major addition, hacking, will enable you to slow the pace of the game by manipulating the levels and their inhabitants.
- Repairing was brought up many times before and I didn't want to add it then since it would require a complete re-balance of the game, but this time there would be limited access to repairs of probably several kinds.
I remember playing this, though not much about it right now. I'll probably go get it again to be more detailed later, but for now your plan sounds sorta like the announcement I'd seen earlier related to Paradox and an improved edition of Teleglitch. Not a bad thing to compare it to, hopefully. :)Nope, not bad at all, though if the original version of Cogmind was a 1, the new version's going to be a 10 ("improved" is hopefully going to be a huge understatement).
One thing, though - WHERE THE HELL CAN I SEE THE DAMN CONTROLS?F1. Or '?'. Once you know what you're doing, manual2.txt has the advanced control set with some pretty useful features and customizations (almost exclusively the result of suggestions by B12'ers during development last year).
Post by: puke on June 28, 2013, 06:53:39 pm
Post by: Kyzrati on July 11, 2013, 10:35:01 pm
Since I haven't "officially" begun any work on this project yet, just chipping away at preparatory tasks when I can, updates are being posted here for now.
Spent a good bit of time completely rewriting a much more powerful version of the map generator (did anyone even notice much about the map layouts in the 7DRL?). Here's a sample:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's 200x200, as I'm considering quadrupling the map size from the original, because there's going to be more to explore/do in each level. There will also be special side levels, some with different themes (like caves), though these are only optional ways to explore the story further and find more powerful items--you can still always go straight up. Most maps include more open areas than before, some quite wide, which while inherently more dangerous will also provide opportunities for rewards as well.
While the map size is increasing, which potentially means more trouble and, you might believe, an even more dangerous battle against attrition, there are going to be many ways to deal with this. See below.
Next prep stage I'm in the middle of: Filtering through an extensive collection of notes to create a proper design doc. Some major features making the final list so far:
- Hacking: Target terminals, fabricators, repair stations, "scanalyzers," and even other robots.
- Allies: Build friends. Or jack into non-hostile robots and give them new instructions. Or hostile robots for that matter: fire projectiles that enable you to hack into them remotely, in the middle of combat.
- Many new robot types. Operator. Researcher. Brawler...
- Oh yeah, melee combat.
- Full sound. *pew pew* *zszhqzhhszkz* *KABOOM* *rattle rattle*
There's now a proper story, too. It's cool (find out what and where Cogmind actually is, and why!), but exploring it is an optional part of the game if you just want to make robots and sneak around, blow things up, or cause general mayhem on your way to the surface.
Post by: EuchreJack on July 12, 2013, 01:58:45 pm
I could never make progress. As much as I like these sort of things, the inability to repair items means that the best laid plans WILL fail and it becomes entirely to the luck of what you pick up in the next few minutes.
It's not entirely luck: Most robot foes have standardized equipment, so selective hunting can help.
As for builds, my first and best run was based around heroically running away a lot.
Post by: Darkening Kaos on July 12, 2013, 08:52:54 pm
And I would love to see repair stations - I get so many weapons damaged, that EM pulse rifle I picked up in the scrapyard lasted two fights, but did it do some awesome damage against that swarm of pests. Re-arming with damaged lgt assault rifles, bugger.
Post by: Aoi on July 12, 2013, 10:31:40 pm
Post by: Kyzrati on July 13, 2013, 03:21:35 am
If you want to sell the game, you need graphics. A simple tile set overlay would be the bare minimum.Most certainly. As mentioned ASCII is going to become an optional mode and the default will be a professional sprite set (= by artist, not me). The GUI will also be overhauled to make every command mouse-accessible, and there will be a *lot* more visual effects both on the map and HUD consoles. Remember, Cogmind was a souped up 7DRL that wasn't visually expanded at all after the first week (besides the addition of a sprite set and a couple low-resource indicators). The game will become an example of what I plan to do with X@COM.
they are so small, tiny, itty-bitty things you need a magnifying glass to see them - that would be my request, Kyrzati, please make the sprites larger, or scaleable at least.There'll be larger versions, so long as you have enough screen space. (I didn't make any larger sets for the original 7DRL, just the small ones.)
As for builds, my first and best run was based around heroically running away a lot.Since the game is about escaping to the surface and no killing is required to advance, running will still be a viable strategy (even more so than before since it should become easier to maintain fast stealth builds), but there will be several new strategies as well, some of which can be more fun while just as effective.
If repairing is going to be implemented, I'd say to make it cannibalize another item of a similar type to repair a portion of the damage. Possibly something like 25% of the remaining durability of the disassembled item, up to 90% (nothing ever gets fixed perfectly...), plus 10% per tier if it's of a superior type, or -10% per tier if it's an inferior type. (So if there's a jump of more than 3 tiers, pretty much impossible unless you're running for the exit, you won't get any benefit at all. Technology's just too outdated.)I think repairing is necessary to some extent, but it will not be a way to always stay in perfect shape because you are, after all, on the run, and repairing takes time. Thus I intend for it to in most cases be feasible only to repair a few of your more vital components (which those are is obviously up to you). *If* there are consumable items (haven't decided on those yet), some should have limited repair capabilities. And of course note that the core, as usual, will still be impossible to repair without evolving, though it may become easier to protect your core from damage using certain strategies.
The only method by which component repair would be possible so far is to use a repair station, and those require hacking to access and use properly (seeing as how you're not exactly authorized to use them). They'd take the item from you and once a long enough time has passed spit it back out with full integrity (in the meantime you can wait around, or do whatever you need to do). How long it takes to repair depends on how good the station is and what you're trying to repair. The most important aspect is how well you hacked the station. You can fail completely, be detected, the station is locked down and a security team is sent to investigate the location; the repair could also have a chance to be unsuccessful and the item is either not repaired, malfunctions when you try to use it, or malfunctions randomly at some later time. The longer you use the same station the more difficult it becomes to do so without being detected.
The current plan for hacking is not some annoying mini-game, but mostly menus with available options and the percentages for successfully achieving that goal. So it'll be quick to carry out, which is important given how prevalent it will be. You can improve chances at hacking certain systems through certain modules, and through familiarity with each type of system as the game progresses (i.e., experience). The percentages for success are a bit fuzzy unless you attach a hacking assistance device that helps make more accurate predictions.
Besides using repair stations, hacking terminals is how you explore the story, and it also allows for things like access to various kinds of extra map info, prototype IDs, schematics for items/robots, control of tunnels and doors, etc. Hacking fabricators enables you to build items, or robots, from schematics. Hacking "scanalyzers" can give you the schematics for an item in your possession, so you can fabricate more of them. The map is no longer empty aside from robots and parts--it'll have these machines and more (non-interactive ones) as well.
Currently under consideration:
- Consumable items? Repair kits, deployable decoys and turrets, and part upgrades (large variety). Not sure if I want these yet, as being able to change individual items may be adding a bit too much complexity, and there don't seem to be a whole lot of other uses for consumables. There are no mines, and not a huge need for other kinds of traps...
- Items that are not parts or consumables? These would be solely for creating hard limitations on very special items you could build at a fabricator, otherwise extremely long wait times become the strongest limitation and that's boring.
- Additional environmental hazards? Not sure if it's worth adding things like lava and/or acid. Pits probably wouldn't work too well since they have to lead somewhere, and melee combat will be adding pushing/throwing so it theoretically becomes possible to fall in, but I don't want the player going down a level. More likely are other theme-appropriate hazards like rooms full of powerful electromagnets, EM fields, or various machines, but these worry me somewhat: While fun, it can be difficult to balance them to prevent the player from abusing them with cheap strategies.
- Sensor types? Not sure if it will be worth adding IR, EM, etc. scan types. Might not want to integrate it into the gameplay to the point where it's more than just a cool gimmick. Once it becomes necessary to switch all the time that's a new facet of the game which may or may not be enjoyable.
- Fire/smoke? Affecting heat dynamics is interesting, but smoke implies a need for other sensor types... unless we just assume that robots are all operating multiple sensor types (and smoke/dust is just there because it's cool).
- Multi-slot parts? These were initially a part of the 7DRL, but I had to scrap them after forgetting about the variable for a while and there wasn't enough time to go back and take it into account. I'll probably be adding these, though you wouldn't see any until later in the game (partially to avoid the confusion they might cause). This would be things like massive cannons, huge shields, or perhaps carrying around your own personal robot factory.
Um, that's a big enough wall for today...
Post by: EuchreJack on July 13, 2013, 09:35:59 pm
Post by: Darkening Kaos on July 13, 2013, 10:12:42 pm
For instance: if you want to repair a lgt assault rifle which is at 35% integrity and you have another at 25% integrity, they combine to make 60%, with the rest coming from matter and time.
However, you could add another weapon, say a heavily damaged assault cannon at 20% integrity. As it is the same class - a weapon - it could add 1/2 its integrity to the repair process, thus another 10%.
Anything else adds 1/3 of its integrity to the repair procedure, ie. a wheel at 60% integrity adds only 20%.
Time taken to repair, might be in the order of twenty steps plus ten steps per 1% deficit, and 15-25 matter consumed per 1%.
Additionally, any repair potential over 100% is lost, or at best, returned to Cogmind as matter.
The benefit to this would be that you can repair an item quicker and clear out your storage inventory of some items that no longer have any other use.
Post by: Kyzrati on July 14, 2013, 08:27:49 am
Also dropped sensors, and any natural environmental hazards (at least in the main map sections). Said yes to multi-slot parts, though.
Post by: Kyzrati on July 15, 2013, 06:42:41 am
Spoiler: Mockup (click to show/hide)
Post by: Mesa on July 15, 2013, 06:54:13 am
Great program it is, by the way. Been using it in (almost) all the suggestion games I'm running around here. It's very helpful.
Post by: Darkening Kaos on July 15, 2013, 07:35:09 am
Itching to build a mass of pests and just set them free to explore a level and engage everything they find.
Can't wait to try this new version of Cogmind.
Post by: puke on July 15, 2013, 11:28:20 am
I'm guessing that this mockup was made in REXpaint?
I have to imagine that he made it by modifying the actual game engine. Being that he's the author of the game.
Post by: Mesa on July 15, 2013, 11:57:31 am
There are many details that just give away that it was not in REXPaint (font being one thing, but there's more).
Post by: Kyzrati on July 15, 2013, 07:42:19 pm
I noticed a few days back that you were using REXPaint for your forum games since you linked to the blog. That's a really nice idea; hopefully it catches on ;)
With the friendlies/allies, would they be autonomous or are your plans for all to move together, (like a squad)?You'll be happy to know that is exactly what I'm thinking. They'll be autonomous and you issue instructions like "follow me," "defend this area," "attack my target," "collect parts and bring them to me," "escort X," "move to X and wait," "excavate here," "build a wall here"... Obviously available instructions depend on what they're capable of actually doing.
Itching to build a mass of pests and just set them free to explore a level and engage everything they find.
It will be difficult to build up a large number of allies since the greater your presence and impact on the area, the more enemies you'll attract and easier it will be to find you. We'll see how it balances out.
Can't wait to try this new version of Cogmind.Since I haven't started yet (and it's being written from scratch again), it'll be a while. (Not an "X@COM while" mind you--a more reasonable while than that.)
Post by: Darkening Kaos on July 16, 2013, 05:06:41 am
I'm something of a completist and have to explore every corner of each level, probably why I've never got out of the Factory.
Post by: Kyzrati on September 21, 2013, 08:28:38 pm
I'll eventually create a new Bay 12 thread for the new version, but it's a bit early for that right now since there's no playable release. For now updates will be provided through the blog (http://www.gridsagegames.com/blog/), Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/Cogmind), and Twitter (https://twitter.com/GridSageGames).
(But if there's a lot of interest in pre-alpha discussion, I'll start the new thread sooner rather than later.)
Post by: puke on September 21, 2013, 09:18:54 pm
Post by: Toaster on September 21, 2013, 09:55:02 pm
Post by: Kyzrati on September 21, 2013, 10:04:52 pm
awesome!Thanks!
Cool.The 7DRL could've used better balance, for sure, but I'm still going for a more traditional roguelike difficulty curve that means you'll have to be pretty good to actually win.
I remember liking this game, it just... proved a little difficult.
That said, there will be plenty more to do and explore in the new game, that and better balance will see to it that if you really know what you're doing you should be able to consistently reach the end. The 7DRL's later levels were usually outright unfair in the number of enemies swarming you, and you were pretty much doomed without some massive weapon.
This time around you'll have friends. And massive weapons ;)
Make sure you link the new thread in here for us PTWers.I will totally not forget to do that ;p
Post by: Krevsin on September 22, 2013, 12:55:43 am
Post by: ( Tchey ) on September 22, 2013, 12:55:56 am
Post by: Aoi on September 22, 2013, 01:15:05 am
The 7DRL's later levels were usually outright unfair in the number of enemies swarming you, and you were pretty much doomed without some massive weapon.
Or creative strategy with patience, or
Post by: Darkening Kaos on September 22, 2013, 01:15:44 am
Post by: Kyzrati on September 22, 2013, 01:48:15 am
Aoi would know, being the only known Cogmind to successfully reach the surface, and having achieved the last stretch of that goal by cunningly taking advantage of "non-combat robot behaviors."The 7DRL's later levels were usually outright unfair in the number of enemies swarming you, and you were pretty much doomed without some massive weapon.
Or creative strategy with patience, orenough chunks of yourself to absorb shotsablative armor and good mobility... =)
Post by: Sensei on September 22, 2013, 04:24:22 am
Post by: deoloth on September 22, 2013, 06:58:33 am
Seriously, I wandered over to the X@COM page and saw it and I was like, wow.
Had a ton of fun with Cogmind and I loved the concept.
Looking through the records folder now, 2/3s of my runs ended on the factory, mostly 5, guess that place was not kind to me. I actually don't know how many floors there were so... no idea how well I was doing back in 5/2012, when most of my attempts took place.
Post by: Kyzrati on September 22, 2013, 07:55:31 pm
The factory (4~6) is where the game starts getting a bit more difficult, so that would make sense. Only a minority of players made it into the next area (research). The new version will be rebalanced so that may change somewhat; there will also be new side-branches to explore.
Post by: Kyzrati on September 23, 2013, 08:47:00 pm
Today I also posted to the blog an overview of Cogmind's core concepts (http://www.gridsagegames.com/blog/2013/09/core-concepts/), as a jumping-off point for future discussion about new features and improvements.