Nice. Going to kill my current visitors with DFhack and then update to this version - and see if I still get mercenaries/questers that never leave the fort.
It's likely a different bug from the one fixed in .05
Any broken visitors themselves are unpatchable in affected saves, so it was important to get this one up quickly (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/)
I'm pretty sure that just applies to saves played/saved in 0.44.04 - if you load a save from 0.44.03 or earlier in 0.44.05, I don't think it'll have the issue.It's likely a different bug from the one fixed in .05
It is explicitly advised you don't run older worlds in this version as Toady recites in his devlog for the new version for that said reason but also quite likely a connected bug somewhere or a recessive element.Quote from: ToadyOneAny broken visitors themselves are unpatchable in affected saves, so it was important to get this one up quickly (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/)
Nice. Going to kill my current visitors with DFhack and then update to this version - and see if I still get mercenaries/questers that never leave the fort.
So far no dice unfortunately, the new patch questers have been in my tavern for almost 2 years now. Civilian visitors leave just fine, it's just these artifact seekers that don't.
I will try generating a new world in 0.44.05 and see if that helps. This world was generated in 0.44.03, which was the patch where the "questers leave properly" bugfix happened, so there shouldn't be an issue (but there is). I'll also up this save to the bugtracker just to be sure, before the new world is genned.
It's likely a different bug from the one fixed in .05
It might be too early to say, maybe the visitor bugs have been putting people off playing for a long time, but, like the monster slayers of the previous release, I can't help but notice a deafening silence here and at Reddit regarding people's experiences with artifact demanding armies. Is it possible that these are broken?
So no pre-battle negotiations with the invaders sitting at the side of the map yet?
What did you do to make the mayor conduct meetings with the visitors? Mine has an office so technically it should happen?
The mayor meets fine with the outpost liaison, elven diplomats etc, but I haven't seen him use the office for meeting with visitors/questers?
I replaced the current mayor with someone else and they had some meetings but then stopped too. So I did it again just now and meetings are being held again. Maybe Mayors are bugged a little.
Edit. I killed one of the oldest visitors and meetings started again. Maybe whenever the mayor was supposed to meet that one it never happened and stopped any more?
Meetings stopping is a known bug not new to this arc. ...
Meetings stopping is a known bug not new to this arc. ...
Ah, very good. I've noted that down as a short term thing to deal with. It'll reduce the confusion to get it out of the picture. The meeting code is Archaic, and a bit of a save compat issue to remove (so I'll likely stay in the same framework), but hopefully I can make do.
In case it helps, the bug report for the meeting issue is http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=3027 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=3027) (so the root bug is rather old, which matches the code being archaic).
Judging by reports that various animals reveal the location of artifacts to artifact seekers, I'd assume they find out by sneaky questions to inhabitants, typically, I'd guess, in the tavern (where they should be conveniently drunk). If all they do is ask each other (when a horde of them has invaded the tavern) it might take some time, though.
I've tried putting museums in the tavern and even making the tavern size only be around the pedestal, yet they don't seem able to find out anything about the artifacts they're searching. Yet sometimes others come in and only after a few days they are are to demand an artifact or try to steal it.
I've tried putting museums in the tavern and even making the tavern size only be around the pedestal, yet they don't seem able to find out anything about the artifacts they're searching. Yet sometimes others come in and only after a few days they are are to demand an artifact or try to steal it.
What kind of message does it give you if they try to steal it? I haven't had any of the stealings or demands yet because of the issues so I have no idea
Sorry, I sent an e-mail to the mantis tracker to register but haven't gotten an e-mail for it yet - thats why I'm posting those here for now.
I've noticed megabeasts don't seem to attack unprovoked in adventure mode anymore. Does anyone else have this issue? :-\http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=10520
I wish the "bookbinding to one 1 page" bug could be fixed. It makes bookbinding useless and ironically less valuable than an unbinded book in "quire form".
The mayor problem would certainly cause that kind of bug, but if there are visitors misbehaving in forts without mayors, then there are definitely other causes. I'll get to 10523 this time. Regarding lingering, if there's not another bug, I might just have to kick them out if they aren't having the chat they need for whatever reason, since it makes sense that they wouldn't stay forever (there are currently some time-out mechanics, but not enough.) Regarding disrespect of the cap (even if they were leaving), I have no idea. Questers are supposed to respect the cap now and that doesn't seem to be happening.Thanks Toady!
The mayor problem would certainly cause that kind of bug, but if there are visitors misbehaving in forts without mayors, then there are definitely other causes. I'll get to 10523 this time. Regarding lingering, if there's not another bug, I might just have to kick them out if they aren't having the chat they need for whatever reason, since it makes sense that they wouldn't stay forever (there are currently some time-out mechanics, but not enough.) Regarding disrespect of the cap (even if they were leaving), I have no idea. Questers are supposed to respect the cap now and that doesn't seem to be happening.Thanks Toady!
Quick question though. Weren't artifacts supposed to continue to be made after world gen?
Edit: Hmm, well I thought I saw it somewhere on the main page. Maybe not.
The mayor problem would certainly cause that kind of bug, but if there are visitors misbehaving in forts without mayors, then there are definitely other causes. I'll get to 10523 this time. Regarding lingering, if there's not another bug, I might just have to kick them out if they aren't having the chat they need for whatever reason, since it makes sense that they wouldn't stay forever (there are currently some time-out mechanics, but not enough.) Regarding disrespect of the cap (even if they were leaving), I have no idea. Questers are supposed to respect the cap now and that doesn't seem to be happening.Thanks Toady!
Quick question though. Weren't artifacts supposed to continue to be made after world gen?
Edit: Hmm, well I thought I saw it somewhere on the main page. Maybe not.
Wait, they aren't made after w.g?
Anybody spotted a hello-goodbye siege since 44.01?
Seems like they've possibly been eradicated? Presumably as a result of all the fortress border work for the release.
Oh, so they do still exist then? Ah well.Anybody spotted a hello-goodbye siege since 44.01?
Seems like they've possibly been eradicated? Presumably as a result of all the fortress border work for the release.
Only 1 in 18+ in game years.
Did legends mode say how the living got there? It's supposed to be just necromancers and zombies. Something weird is up.Legends had the leader just spring into being as a member of the tower, unknown parentage, just in time to lead the first zombie siege.
FPS fixes are always awesome! Hmm, so the queue currently seems to be 10523, 8508, zombie pop fixes and maybe possibly the hello/goodbye sieges if lucky enough to catch one.Hard to guarantee a save for an h/b-siege though. :(
FPS fixes are always awesome!"Some of the gains are universal, some depend on, say, how many chickens are in play." ~ I hope the amount of chickens doesn't have a positive effect on FPS. All that clucking just for few more FPS...
A random save which happens to be just before such siege is probably the most viable option. Not the easiest issue to replicate, though, yes.FPS fixes are always awesome! Hmm, so the queue currently seems to be 10523, 8508, zombie pop fixes and maybe possibly the hello/goodbye sieges if lucky enough to catch one.Hard to guarantee a save for an h/b-siege though. :(
Thanks! I'm hoping it's just the leader elevation issue; it certain doesn't expect a random mortal when it's handing out roles for the undead invasion.
Chickens: Pigs too, anybody that roots around. The root around code was causing a loot of extra pathing, as, for no reason, it cleared the current path, and if the chicken was heading somewhere far away, they'd root around every few squares and then repath to their destination.
I fixed the main problem (alcohol was making people more private, not less, despite the raws, so nobody was blabbing to questers)
[CE_CHANGE_PERSONALITY:FACET:BASHFUL:-50:FACET:PRIVACY:-50:FACET:BRAVERY:25:FACET:CONFIDENCE:25:FACET:POLITE NESS:-25:FACET:THOUGHTLESSNESS:25:PROB:100:SIZE_DILUTES: START:10:PEAK:120:END:480:DWF_STRETCH:4]
Privacy Level
91-100 shares intimate details of life without sparing a thought to repercussions or propriety
76-90 is not a private person and freely shares details of [his/her] life
61-75 tends to share [his/her] own experiences and thoughts with others
25-39 tends not to reveal personal information
10-24 has a strong tendency toward privacy
0-9 is private to the point of paranoia, unwilling to reveal even basic information about [him/her]self
The privacy bug shouldn't affect friendships -- chatting uses a different personality facet (bashful, I believe).I believe there are similar bugs affecting caravans and possibly migrants on the tracker, so they might have the same root cause (at least, that's my theory).
Yeah, never-ending sieges are also annoying, maybe worse than the hello/goodbye ones in effect. It's one of those things where both saves are probably useful; the announcement save can be diagnosed directly as for why the siege state isn't terminating, but that might not get the root cause. On the other hand, with only the base save, I might never get the never-ending siege, and thus learn nothing at all.
Quote[CE_CHANGE_PERSONALITY:FACET:BASHFUL:-50:FACET:PRIVACY:-50:FACET:BRAVERY:25:FACET:CONFIDENCE:25:FACET:POLITE NESS:-25:FACET:THOUGHTLESSNESS:25:PROB:100:SIZE_DILUTES: START:10:PEAK:120:END:480:DWF_STRETCH:4]
I guess this was the privacy bug then, lower is actually more private and it has -50 not 50. I changed that to 50.
Hey Toad, forgive if this is a poor place for such a suggestion, but while you're looking and improving the cleaning code, could you put a line or two in to make it so dwarves don't try to clean areas with Restricted Traffic designation? Mainly for those folks who like to decorate their fort with blood paint.Wait, what about those of us who want clean restricted traffic areas?
I suppose such a case would call for a "don't clean" designation then. Oof!Hey Toad, forgive if this is a poor place for such a suggestion, but while you're looking and improving the cleaning code, could you put a line or two in to make it so dwarves don't try to clean areas with Restricted Traffic designation? Mainly for those folks who like to decorate their fort with blood paint.Wait, what about those of us who want clean restricted traffic areas?
One thing I noticed about the legends in the live-zombie-leader save I have is that the tower appeared to be doing a lot of attacks before they got to the player, and the leader was generated on one of those attacks (against a forest retreat). So it might be tricky capturing the live leader being created in the act.So necromancers are dying in battle and being replaced by mortals, ala lieutenants and generals, but it's not being properly recorded? I'm confused.
My understanding of what Toady said is that the siege code decides it needs a leader when a siege actually happens, and the necros aren't (always?) selected as leaders. In the save Toady got from me the necro left more or less immediately, leaving the leader/handler and the undead to (mis)manage themselves. My experience is that necros tend to leave rapidly, with the only exception being stealthed ones who actually try to sneak in (fleeing when detected, and caught in cages when not).One thing I noticed about the legends in the live-zombie-leader save I have is that the tower appeared to be doing a lot of attacks before they got to the player, and the leader was generated on one of those attacks (against a forest retreat). So it might be tricky capturing the live leader being created in the act.So necromancers are dying in battle and being replaced by mortals, ala lieutenants and generals, but it's not being properly recorded? I'm confused.
It occurs to me that some of trouble here may be to due the unusual entity status of necro towers.They're site-level governments, but lack parent civs and are militarily active.
While you are looking at cleaning code, could you check out why a cleaning job isn't cancelled properly when a dwarf is jailed? It'll keep it's 'clean' job while chained, going on way beyond it's bedtime, until it literally collapses from exhaustion. Dwarves in jail with a clean job and a white flashing drowsy arrow are a common sight.Best put this on mantis to make reproducibility a little easier too!
Heh, that not on Mantis yet? That exists for so long already, couldn't fathom it's not on Mantis already. I don't see how adding it to Mantis would make reproducability easier though.It'll mean it actually gets looked at, as opposed to not. Which means people actively looking at bugs (including Toady) will know to try to reproduce it. As opposed to not. There is no advantage to not reporting bugs. "Everybody knows" is almost always a delusion.
Apparently not, I seem to have already reported it in 2016. Hasn't even been looked at yet, still listed as 'new'.Save would probably speed things up a bit. Not simple to reproduce. Needs a fortress with guards for a start.
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=9646 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=9646)
No save, it's just something that happens in every fort, no save needed."First make a fortress with 50 dwarves a squad of guards and a jail"....that's the point half of the volunteer bug testers move on to the next bug. Just got to wait for the more dedicated ones to take a look.
Ah, yeah, I've got saves for animals worshiping gods, and I've also seen them get a consume alcohol need from seeing/experiencing repeated trauma, which they then can't fill, and get distracted. I'll fix soon.
Seems like do many problems stem from pathing.On the player side, I'm aware that pathing can be improved by using traffic designations to reduce the amount of open areas from being considered for paths, and to cage beasts when possible (non grazers).
Is there any improvements that can be made there?
Do temple performers actually do sacred dances or anything related in dwarf mode? or am I missing something?
I believe that's correct technically, although I'd rather see it as building blocks for future functionality that hasn't yet been given any useful function (like those visitor types that currently serve only as a crowd in which spies can hide).Do temple performers actually do sacred dances or anything related in dwarf mode? or am I missing something?
At the moment they seem like pointless fluff, I've never assigned any performers to temples and they work fine (dwarves pray).
What I find strange is that even with questers arriving and leaving properly (with the alcohol privacy tweak), and checking out my museum, I never see messages about questers actually finding out artifacts (Urist has revealed the presence of Fancy Artifact Name to Quester Name)They talked, didn't find any information, decided they'd talked to enough people, then left. Presumably.
What I find strange is that even with questers arriving and leaving properly (with the alcohol privacy tweak), and checking out my museum, I never see messages about questers actually finding out artifacts (Urist has revealed the presence of Fancy Artifact Name to Quester Name)They talked, didn't find any information, decided they'd talked to enough people, then left. Presumably.
Well, I expect a domino effect of bugs is going on. Wouldn't worry too much about it. Save complaints for the actual fix in 44.06.What I find strange is that even with questers arriving and leaving properly (with the alcohol privacy tweak), and checking out my museum, I never see messages about questers actually finding out artifacts (Urist has revealed the presence of Fancy Artifact Name to Quester Name)They talked, didn't find any information, decided they'd talked to enough people, then left. Presumably.
Though still no "Revealed presence of" announcement, I got 6 petitions and 1 artifact demand, after using the cleanmayor script for stuck meeting queue.
The artifact questers I get all look for artifacts not in my fortress (which doesn't have any), so why would anyone in the fortress know about their whereabouts?With the privacy changes in the upcoming versions, I think they'll scram a lot sooner once someone actually talks to them about the situation.
The privacy work around worked for me as well, by the way. Thanks for that, Orkel.
Edit: also there are some floating ice and mud tiles in air one level above surface, which create cave-in sometimes. Is this a known bug?
Cave-ins: There were air tiles with ice in it. This ice falls down sometimes, causing a cave-in message, but not all ice is falling. I have no idea, how the ice ended up there. I did some digging into frozen pools, but without incidents. Have to check the savegame.Result: 6535, "Ice doesn't collapse" (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=6535) - when falling water freezes, it can stay in the air.
Weird bug: a child just went insane from a strange mood and is now heavily spamming this message: "[name], Dwarven Child cancels Pickup Equipment: Too Insane"That's really just a special case of the general issue of jobs that cannot be performed are taken, immediately failed, retaken, ... ad nauseam. Other cases are burrowing someone hauling something (the buggers are too stupid to drop the items: it would also help if civilian alerts caused dorfs to drop carried job items: they move at a crawl when carrying that boulder they should build a wall with both into the burrow and away from the building site), and dorfs taking jobs outside of burrows (ordinary ones or civilian alert ones alike) and spamming that they can't be performed. You can also get that kind of spam from trapped dorfs who spam about not being able to get a bucket (while they can't get water anyway) to give water to another dorf trapped with them. You've got similar issues with loading cage traps when out of cages: cancellation spam.
Mantis page: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=10568 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=10568)
DFFD page: http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=13502 (http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=13502)
A human swordsman was leaving, left the map, then 2 seconds later, "Human swordsman is visiting" - the same guy is running back into my fort. Either he really loves my booze, or it's a funny little glitch/coincidence.You only have to open Legends and check his name to see if he's a spy. Humans have lived in Elf civs in DF for years, so wooden equipment means nothing.
He is using wooden equipment, and I saw a "dwarf X has revealed presence of artifact Y to human swordsman" announcement, so it's possible he is a spy (elf disguised as human?). Perhaps has something to do with this "double visit".
Edit: Same just happened with another leaving human swordsman, how curious! This one is using metal equipment though and had no "revealed presence of" announcement, so it's possible they are not related.
Edit 2: I got the "revealed presence of" announcement for the 2nd human after he stepped back into my fort. 2 Spies?
A human swordsman was leaving, left the map, then 2 seconds later, "Human swordsman is visiting" - the same guy is running back into my fort. Either he really loves my booze, or it's a funny little glitch/coincidence.You only have to open Legends and check his name to see if he's a spy. Humans have lived in Elf civs in DF for years, so wooden equipment means nothing.
He is using wooden equipment, and I saw a "dwarf X has revealed presence of artifact Y to human swordsman" announcement, so it's possible he is a spy (elf disguised as human?). Perhaps has something to do with this "double visit".
Edit: Same just happened with another leaving human swordsman, how curious! This one is using metal equipment though and had no "revealed presence of" announcement, so it's possible they are not related.
Edit 2: I got the "revealed presence of" announcement for the 2nd human after he stepped back into my fort. 2 Spies?
Leaving and coming straight back is a bit weird. Is the artifact he's looking for actually at your site?
I've had both sneaking thieves detected (and fleeing, to fight another day) and thieves stealing something or other. Given that it should be impossible to sneak into the fortress (guard cats in dog boxes above all entrances), the items stolen were probably stuff lying on the surface after something or other had killed their owners.Don't think there's any issues with regular thieves right now (besides their uselessness, of course).
Referring to the latest development report: I hope the livestock acquisition code has some checks of what's appropriate, so we don't get "livestock" undead brought back from a necro tower raid, or trolls/ogres/blizzard men/beak dogs from a goblin one (and we probably shouldn't get any of those cavern critters dwarves can't tame either, should the gobbos actually have been able to get them).But..but...it wouldn't be Granite without beakdog roasts on the menu. Just select no pet retrieval when you raid goblins if you don't want them.
I use the goblin home delivery service for beak dog roasts...Referring to the latest development report: I hope the livestock acquisition code has some checks of what's appropriate, so we don't get "livestock" undead brought back from a necro tower raid, or trolls/ogres/blizzard men/beak dogs from a goblin one (and we probably shouldn't get any of those cavern critters dwarves can't tame either, should the gobbos actually have been able to get them).But..but...it wouldn't be Granite without beakdog roasts on the menu. Just select no pet retrieval when you raid goblins if you don't want them.
The likelyhood of even successfully surviving the battle until its deemed safe to run away from the hive of goblins would take more than enough effort on part of a large dwarf party between a 100 well trained dwarves, lets just see how martial trances fare in such a mosh pit of action. Besides, goblins mass stockpiles goblinite in cheap crude metal goods is likely not worth the effort, id go there almost purely to burn the tower to the ground.Unfortunately, if combat works in as in worldgen, dwarves will only ever face off with one enemy at a time, hundreds of times, so no martial trance.
On the other hand you can just mass-drain a elven settlement of remaining giant animals if they don't take part in the battle.
What's the difference between catching a troll in a cage during a siege and bringing one back from a raid? If you choose to raid goblins for livestock (and, as it says in the devblog, it is a conscious choice you have to make) you should expect to end up with beakdogs and trolls.I use the goblin home delivery service for beak dog roasts...Referring to the latest development report: I hope the livestock acquisition code has some checks of what's appropriate, so we don't get "livestock" undead brought back from a necro tower raid, or trolls/ogres/blizzard men/beak dogs from a goblin one (and we probably shouldn't get any of those cavern critters dwarves can't tame either, should the gobbos actually have been able to get them).But..but...it wouldn't be Granite without beakdog roasts on the menu. Just select no pet retrieval when you raid goblins if you don't want them.
I'm not that concerned about the beak dogs, but rather "animal" building destroyers that aren't as well trained as Gremlins? For the rest, it's more a matter of consistency.
is the next update 0.45.0 or 0.44.06Depends how much is added. It's a percentage based on a master list of items required to be implemented by 1.0. Almost certainly 44.06.