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Other Projects => Other Games => Play With Your Buddies => Topic started by: Felius on May 06, 2011, 08:28:18 pm

Title: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Felius on May 06, 2011, 08:28:18 pm
So, I want to start a let's play, and decided to do the Fall from Heaven mod for Civilization IV. Suggestions?

Going on more technical questions:

What race does the forum mind wishes me to play? I mostly play Grigori (sticking it to the so called gods all the way through. :P ), although my most recent game was Kuriotates, and I've been thinking of trying my hand at the Sheaim going to infernal as soon as I can summon them, to try a radically different play style, although I don't really oppose to any race you might want me to play.

What speed rating should I play? I mostly play marathon in my single player games, but even without having to consult the forum mind and take, format and upload screen shots, it can take a really long time to play out, with the added problem that it's common to have long periods of times that nothing big goes around (specially in the early game. "Ok, let's build a settler to build my second city. What do you mean it's going to take 60 turns?"). On the other hand, I find that in faster ratings the game becomes just a race to the end of the tech line before any decent conflict takes place, specially in bigger maps, where sometimes, having just researched and built a new unit, by the time it actually reaches the enemy it's one or two generations outdated and completely obsolete.

And speaking of that, what map size and special settings should I put?

I'll write something more in deep about the civilizations and options later, but for now, I'll leave you with the wiki for the mod: http://fallfromheaven.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

Edit: Index:

Episode 1: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84087.msg2286083#msg2286083 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84087.msg2286083#msg2286083)
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Burnt Pies on May 06, 2011, 08:37:05 pm
I quite like the look of the Luchuirp, the Dwarven Golem Crafters. All of the races look interesting, though.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on May 06, 2011, 08:41:57 pm
I like the idea of a decadant vampire society ruled by ageless lords who farm their human subjects like cattle, so I vote Calabim. Balseraphs are a good second, as they're sort of what it would be like if Mardi Gras was evil and happened every day across an entire nation.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 06, 2011, 08:44:35 pm
I discovered this three weeks ago, almost was my ruination because I spent one of my holiday weeks playing this instead of studying. Very addictive.

I usually go for Balseraphs/Perpentarch or Calabim/Flauros, which are my all around favorites. I did a test-run with Illian and found them quite interesting, too. The Sidar I find to be quite boring. I want to test Sheiam and the guys with the king who is a kid possesed by a dragon.

Edit: Ninjaed
Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on May 06, 2011, 08:41:57 pm
I like the idea of a decadant vampire society ruled by ageless lords who farm their human subjects like cattle, so I vote Calabim. Balseraphs are a good second, as they're sort of what it would be like if Mardi Gras was evil and happened every day across an entire nation.
I have the same preferences only the other way around. I like the idea of the Balseraph court with a lot of nobles dressing in various mottley trying to appease the whims of their crazy liege. (The scenes at Nero's court in Quo Vadis come to mind)
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Felius on May 06, 2011, 09:09:26 pm
Quote from: ChairmanPoo on May 06, 2011, 08:44:35 pm
I discovered this three weeks ago, almost was my ruination because I spent one of my holiday weeks playing this instead of studying. Very addictive.

I usually go for Balseraphs/Perpentarch or Calabim/Flauros, which are my all around favorites. I did a test-run with Illian and found them quite interesting, too. The Sidar I find to be quite boring. I want to test Sheiam and the guys with the king who is a kid possesed by a dragon.

Edit: Ninjaed
Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on May 06, 2011, 08:41:57 pm
I like the idea of a decadant vampire society ruled by ageless lords who farm their human subjects like cattle, so I vote Calabim. Balseraphs are a good second, as they're sort of what it would be like if Mardi Gras was evil and happened every day across an entire nation.
I have the same preferences only the other way around. I like the idea of the Balseraph court with a lot of nobles dressing in various mottley trying to appease the whims of their crazy liege. (The scenes at Nero's court in Quo Vadis come to mind)

I personally imagine the Balseraph as what would happen with a nation if it were ruled by the joker.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Neonivek on May 06, 2011, 10:12:00 pm
Frankly I want to see the world change... I want to see it be plunged into the depths of hell but unfortunately only ONE side actually benefits from this.

So can you play them? heck can you play Fall from heaven 2?
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on May 06, 2011, 10:31:24 pm
You make it sounds like turning the world into hell is supposed to help people who aren't daemons/daemon worshipers.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Gantolandon on May 07, 2011, 06:23:40 am
Actually it's not meant to help even them. Even the leadership of Sheaim knows that winning means death of them - one just cooperates out of fear and for the second one this is the only way to suicide.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Il Palazzo on May 07, 2011, 06:58:51 am
Quote from: Neonivek on May 06, 2011, 10:12:00 pm
heck can you play Fall from heaven 2?
This is Fall from heaven 2. Fall from heaven 1 is a mod for CIV III, if I recall correctly.

Also, Illians change the world as well - into ice. Unless it's something only added in one of the modmods that I used to play.
Speaking of which, I'd highly recommend playing with those modmods - Orbis or Master of Mana. These seem much more fun than the vanilla FFH.

Anyway, I'm putting my vote for Illians - let's plunge the world into eternal winter.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Gantolandon on May 07, 2011, 07:56:26 am
My vote goes for Illians too.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Korbac on May 07, 2011, 09:13:39 am
IIRC, one of the Ilian only wonders halves the popualtion in all your cities and forces everyone to declare war on you. But you get this OOOOOBER unit and the world starts turning to ice. :D
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Felius on May 07, 2011, 12:29:33 pm
Added poll for civilization.

I also want input on game speed and map size folks.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Il Palazzo on May 07, 2011, 12:35:22 pm
Normal speed, standard map, immortal difficulty - I'd rather see this finish too early than drag on forever.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Korbac on May 07, 2011, 12:47:14 pm
Normal speed, HEWDGE MAPPP, difficulty you feel comfortable with.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Felius on May 07, 2011, 12:47:51 pm
Quote from: Il Palazzo on May 07, 2011, 12:35:22 pm
Normal speed, standard map, immortal difficulty - I'd rather see this finish too early than drag on forever.

Do know that I'm really not that good of a player. I can handle the noble difficulty without much trouble (as long something such as Acheron spawning just on my only and single way out of a mountain pocket), but I fear that on immortal the game might go extremely fast with my demise. Also, I kinda dislike cheating computers. That said, I'll leave the ultimate decision for the forum mind.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Thexor on May 07, 2011, 12:51:19 pm
Yeah, high difficulties just give the AI mad hax. (Although at least the Civ series is nice enough to tell you that the AI gets mad hax!) Pick a difficulty you can plausibly win, bearing in mind you'll probably be getting some crazy, impractical advice from the forums.  ;)

Standard speed and a decently-large map would also be good. Standard speed because otherwise it'll probably start dragging, and large map for lots of interesting opportunities to expand/meet new civs/etc, of course limited by whatever your computer can handle.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Felius on May 07, 2011, 12:55:52 pm
I generally play on huge, in marathon, so I assume my computer should be able to handle any map the forum chooses without problem.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Mr.Person on May 07, 2011, 12:56:40 pm
Don't play on an overly large map. Play at the size the game recommends for 5 opposing civs.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Felius on May 07, 2011, 12:57:27 pm
Oh, and before I forget, what's HEWDGE MAPPP?
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Nilocy on May 07, 2011, 01:01:51 pm
Sheaim. I loved those guys, their portals are hillariously fun. And dear god (hah) bringing the daemons into the world is just plain funny.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: RedKing on May 07, 2011, 01:03:41 pm
Oh man, I *love* FFH2. I hardly ever play vanilla Civ4 anymore, just FFH2.

I've played with every single civ, but so far I've only beaten it with a handful (Bannor, Grigori, Elohim, Ljosalfar and Balseraph, I think)

Sheaim can be very fun, because you wind up with an army of random assorted monsters once those summoning gates get built. And as the world goes to Hell, you get stronger.

My favorites these days are the Amurites (trying to go for a Tower of Mastery win), Lanun (paired with Octopus Overlords and a water-rich map, you can be quite powerful), Ljosalfar (cover the world in forest and influence, and then use your World Spell to summon seventeen metric f**ktons of Treants to finish off the remaining enemies), and Clan of Embers on a "Terra" map (where everbody starts in the "Old World" and races to discover and settle the "New World" full of barbarians. You're at a research disadvantage, but if you can level up Rantine bigtime and put him on a boat to the New World, he can go from city to city converting them and giving you an empire out of nothing)

The only ones that are somewhat boring are the Sidar (although they got a bit more interesting in the final update or two, with some of their "divided soul" abilities), the Malakim (there's just not enough desert for their bonuses to be of use, although with the addition of the Overcouncil, they suddenly became a lot more interesting in terms of going for a diplo victory), the Doviello, and the Hippus. Even those, I think could be fun if I just figured out how to use them properly.

But my vote is going to be for the Khazad. Why? Because THIS IS DWARF FORTRESS!  :D

Plus, you have little to worry about in the way of magic, and religion really isn't their thing (Yes, they would do well to adopt the Runes, but the Luchuirp are more geared for being religious dwarves). Khazad strategy is straightforward: Build a few cities with lots of hills and/or trade resources around them, and mine the shit out of them. Build up defenses, make money hand over fist, stay out of wars as much as possible, and build up doomstacks. Once you've got cannons and some assorted higher-level units, open your gates and unleash the dwarven war machine on anyone nearby.

Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on May 07, 2011, 01:07:03 pm
For the record, I also suggest that you ensure that all of the civilizations on the poll are in your game. That way, we can have insane cultists trying to turn the world into hell while other insane cultists try to turn the world to ice while godless humans don't give a fuck and rampage as vampire lords eat everyone.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Neonivek on May 08, 2011, 01:18:34 am
Quote from: Gantolandon on May 07, 2011, 06:23:40 am
Actually it's not meant to help even them. Even the leadership of Sheaim knows that winning means death of them - one just cooperates out of fear and for the second one this is the only way to suicide.

But they are the only ones who at least arn't outright disadvantaged by it... and can even get a new civ from doing so.

I just like the races that do mass world conversions but to my knowledge only two are really strongly supported by it.

Also Fall from Heaven the first was also a Civ 4 mod. The difference is the expansions. I think... I may be confused if the latest Civ isn't Civ 5
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Mr.Person on May 08, 2011, 01:27:18 am
FfH1 was a scenario for Civ4. It was very simple and had like 3 or 4 races or something. It was on a fixed map and I think was story based.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 08, 2011, 01:29:24 am
Illian Temples of the Hand generate frost around them. I dont think any of the Illian projects freezes the world overall, though.

Fall from heaven 1 is a mod for vanilla Civ IV (instead of beyond the sword)
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Neonivek on May 08, 2011, 03:04:36 am
I guess I was mistaken.

I thought there was a race/faction that's goal was basically to force the world back into the ice age (outside of their story mine you).

So I guess only one starting faction has a world transforming goal then.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Mr.Person on May 08, 2011, 04:19:51 am
Quote from: Neonivek on May 08, 2011, 03:04:36 am
I guess I was mistaken.

I thought there was a race/faction that's goal was basically to force the world back into the ice age (outside of their story mine you).

So I guess only one starting faction has a world transforming goal then.

The Illians do that in a sense.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Felius on May 08, 2011, 07:21:44 am
I'll try to start, if college allows me this coming week, ideally tomorrow, or at most, if everything goes wrong, Friday. I'll lock the poll when I start, so if you haven't voted yet, do so before I do so.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on May 08, 2011, 08:01:58 am
Quote from: ChairmanPoo on May 08, 2011, 01:29:24 am
Illian Temples of the Hand generate frost around them. I dont think any of the Illian projects freezes the world overall, though.
Enacting The Deepening will cool the world down signifigantly, but not enough to bring back the Age of Ice.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Korbac on May 08, 2011, 10:15:31 am
HEWDGE MAPPP means Huge Map Size, of course!  :D
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: RedKing on May 08, 2011, 11:27:58 am
Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on May 08, 2011, 08:01:58 am
Quote from: ChairmanPoo on May 08, 2011, 01:29:24 am
Illian Temples of the Hand generate frost around them. I dont think any of the Illian projects freezes the world overall, though.
Enacting The Deepening will cool the world down signifigantly, but not enough to bring back the Age of Ice.
Plus your Priests of Winter can cast blizzards about them, Drifa the White Dragon creates tundra/ice around her IIRC, and if you ever get to Auric Ascended I think he leaves ice behind wherever he walks. Takes a bit more proactive approach, but you can certainly turn the world to tundra/snow if not ice.

Just once I'd like to see a game where the Illians and the Infernals are the two dominant powers, and everyone is caught in between trying to figure out if they'd rather burn or freeze.  :D
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Neonivek on May 08, 2011, 12:12:10 pm
Unfortunately you would have to set up the Infernals yourself.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Glacies on May 08, 2011, 12:13:08 pm
Start a hot-seat game and play the Illians AND Infernals. As a lets play. Time it so that the two factions start the world-conversion process at the same time.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Felius on May 08, 2011, 05:17:45 pm
Quote from: Glacies on May 08, 2011, 12:13:08 pm
Start a hot-seat game and play the Illians AND Infernals. As a lets play. Time it so that the two factions start the world-conversion process at the same time.

This would be quite... hard... You see, the conversion to hell is not controlled by the Infernals, but by the Armageddon counter, which all civilizations can influence (admittedly the Infernals can raise it pretty easily, just by playing normally without looking much at it, and it's generally easier to raise than to reduce it), so it's extremely hard to have this level of fine control over it, and it's pretty gradual, at first hell terrain appearing the lands of civs with Ashen Veil lands, then as the counter increases, to other evil players, then to unowned lands, and then to neutral lands, with the good guys never getting hell terrain. Plus when it gets high enough there are some extra effects, but I never had the experience with Armageddon counters over 30-40.

That said, I could set a hotseat with Illians and Sheiams (or pretty much any of the more intellectual evil civilizations, to summon the Infernals)
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on May 08, 2011, 05:22:04 pm
It really doesn't make sense to me that good civilizations never get hellscaped. It should obviously be high on the AC (90 or so), but it never happening while good civs are still around really ruins the "world has become hell" image.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Neonivek on May 08, 2011, 05:54:54 pm
Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on May 08, 2011, 05:22:04 pm
It really doesn't make sense to me that good civilizations never get hellscaped. It should obviously be high on the AC (90 or so), but it never happening while good civs are still around really ruins the "world has become hell" image.

It makes sense if you know some of the "good" units who actually have the ability, just by existing, to lower the world corruption rating.

It wouldn't surprise me if they had the ability to stave off corruption at least within their own boarders.

Also I thought you couldn't start as the infernals... you had to make them as another race... or am I thinking of something that happens after the infernals that I am trying not to say because I am afraid of spoilers.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on May 08, 2011, 05:58:16 pm
As far as I know, the Infernals have to be summoned by the Ashen Veil, an act that tends to screw both the summoners and everyone else in the world over. Since, you know, you just
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Felius on May 08, 2011, 06:18:56 pm
Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on May 08, 2011, 05:58:16 pm
As far as I know, the Infernals have to be summoned by the Ashen Veil, an act that tends to screw both the summoners and everyone else in the world over. Since, you know, you just
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Actually, to what I've seem, he does not actually get all that cities, just a starting one plus settler (or two settlers, I'm not really sure). Their world spell, once they have the tech, can take control of one single extra ashen veil city, but that doesn't make much difference usually. It pretty much screws up everybody but themselves (and the player, if he chooses to abandon his civ to play the Infernals, but in this case it's better to see if you can talk to him in the between turns and give everything you can to him :P ), but as summoning him is a side effect of researching a very powerful tech for ashen veil, it's hard not to do so.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Felius on May 14, 2011, 01:17:57 am
Due to college I'm going to postpone the start of the LP a few more days.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: andrea on May 14, 2011, 05:26:47 am
this thread inspired me to play Illians... so I think you should try them too. Lets turn the world into ice!

the thing that was most different compared to my usual game was that you have to focus a lot on the military side of the game. Always keep in mind that soon or later, you will get lots of people extremely angry at you.

Also, after Auric ascends you must be careful to avoid getting him killed by the godslayer. while almost invulnerable  against normal units, the godslayer sword gives an insane bonus against gods.
I don't know where when and how it spawns, but I am probably going to find out soon. my bet is that it is found in letum frigus.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Il Palazzo on May 14, 2011, 05:44:35 am
According to wiki, the strongest player is awarded the sword, most likely it just appears at the capital. Apparently, it kills Auric even if the unit holding it loses the battle.

And now, for something completely different: you know those random events that grant one of your regular units the hero promotion? I had this trigger for a worker unit last time it happened.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Korbac on May 14, 2011, 07:44:25 am
OUCH!!! XD Could you give it any proms? I mean, Medic may be useful.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: EuchreJack on May 14, 2011, 04:18:46 pm
Introducing Urst, Legendary Soapmaker!

Seriously, why not use the hero worker as a fighter?
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Il Palazzo on May 14, 2011, 04:27:24 pm
Yeah, I wanted to make him into the hero of the Soviet Union, the initiator of the Stakhanovite movement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stakhanovite_movement). It would be even more fitting, as I was playing the Mechanos.
Alas, I was soon overrun by some aggroing AI.

As a side note, I'm not sure if workers have the "can only defend" tag. Still, no way of getting any combat promotions, and the "heroic strength/defence" is probably inaccessible as well.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: jaxy15 on May 16, 2011, 03:40:50 am
C'mon, why Illians?
The ice age was over after the god of winter was beaten.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on May 16, 2011, 11:38:49 pm
So, I trust we'll be seeing a lot of Ice and Entropy with the Illians?
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Felius on May 17, 2011, 04:47:08 am
Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on May 16, 2011, 11:38:49 pm
So, I trust we'll be seeing a lot of Ice and Entropy with the Illians?

I certainly hope so.

I'm setting the new tentative start date for this Friday, after my tests in microeconomics and probability.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 17, 2011, 05:07:46 am
Playing a game as illians. I am sitting on the largest mass of occupied terrain, yet don't have to worry too much about guards because I'm fairly secure: the two accesses to my zone are barricaded by heavily guarded cities, and my arcane barges guard the seas - not that anyone has a navy worth a can of piss.

I'm kind of having lots of economic problems, though. And stupid Os-Gabella researched Infernal pact, which has dealt me a severe blow. I had Aqua Suceallus and the biggest population in the game, so it was not as bad as it could have been (others were hit worse), but still, it was painful.

I'm trying to enhace heavily my capital city. Already built star-compass in it, which should hurry things a bit. The idea is to fortify my two access cities further, build the draw, then switch to god-king and do ascension as fast as I can. Hopefully my two fortified cities will be able to hold back aggressors till I ascend. I worry about bassium though, because he is close and has some nasty strong units. I expect that adding more wizards and javelineers to the cities will help, though. I have a a couple of them able to summon ice elementals and/or Eineres.

As an addenum: oddly enough at present I have a cozy relationship with Bassium and Saphiel, and am at war with Clan of Embers and Os-Gabella. Since I fully intend to go for ascension, I don't expect this to last, though.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: andrea on May 17, 2011, 02:05:32 pm
a small suggestion for you: get as man vassals as you can, before finishing the draw.  other people will hate you, but they will soon be enemies anyway. And vassals stay loyal after you build the draw, which means they can take a few hits for you... even a couple turns can be a great help.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Felius on May 17, 2011, 03:01:47 pm
Does perma allies also stay after building the draw?
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: andrea on May 17, 2011, 03:03:56 pm
probably. I doubt there is anything that can break a permanent alliance. But I didn't test... I disabled them for that game, and I didn't want to summon basium ( although I kept that as a plan in case things started going badly)
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Felius on May 17, 2011, 06:51:53 pm
Quote from: andrea on May 17, 2011, 03:03:56 pm
probably. I doubt there is anything that can break a permanent alliance. But I didn't test... I disabled them for that game, and I didn't want to summon basium ( although I kept that as a plan in case things started going badly)

I'm pretty sure that even if you were the one that summoned Basium, if you go Ashen Veil, he will declare war against you. Don't quote me on this though.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: RedKing on May 18, 2011, 07:05:55 am
Quote from: Felius on May 17, 2011, 06:51:53 pm
Quote from: andrea on May 17, 2011, 03:03:56 pm
probably. I doubt there is anything that can break a permanent alliance. But I didn't test... I disabled them for that game, and I didn't want to summon basium ( although I kept that as a plan in case things started going badly)

I'm pretty sure that even if you were the one that summoned Basium, if you go Ashen Veil, he will declare war against you. Don't quote me on this though.

Not sure about the final version, but at least in a couple of previous versions, the AI for Basium was...odd. I saw him have a Pleased attitude towards Hyborem, of all things. And at war with some third-party empire which was already at war with the Infernals. The "mutual military struggle" modifier was doing a good job of countering all the other natural enmities, it seems.



Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 20, 2011, 08:57:07 am
I changed the Kuriotates soundset to make it a bit more ominous. I mean, the devs might have intended the Kurios to be fluffy good, but I find the concept of a kid who is possessed by a dragon (and who apparently can shapeshift into the dragon late in the game) to lean on the creepy side.

I intend to try around a game with them. Maybe convert to council of Esus, maybe not. The hidden nationality units are nice, but it's limited ot scout-line units, and not really predictable.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Felius on May 20, 2011, 02:31:16 pm
This Let's Play will start later tomorrow if I'm not too drunk. If I am, it'll start when I wake up tomorrow. But for now, Let's Drink With Friends. I'll edit the first post with links to the the "episode" posts as I make them.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: jaxy15 on May 20, 2011, 02:33:28 pm
Will you ascend?
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Felius on May 20, 2011, 02:34:10 pm
Quote from: jaxy15 on May 20, 2011, 02:33:28 pm
Will you ascend?

Maybe.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Felius on May 20, 2011, 08:01:17 pm
The game is starting now, huge Erebus map, normal speed, acient era, temperate climate (at least for start, let's fix that), medium sea level, 10 computers oponents, making sure the Sheaim (the devil worshipers), the Elohim (the militant "good" faction, following the order, a fanatical and extremely militant religion with focus on discipline and obedience), and a random neutral leader (just to have at least a neutral leader, instead of all good or all evil). I'll not enable permanent alliances (a change from my usual games), but I'll enable All Features, so I can show them all of. I would enable last days to increase urgency, but as I'm evil I would be extremely crippled by it, as I would be one of the first to suffer with hell terrain, and I don't worship the demons.

I'll be play Auric Ulvin, of the Illians, at noble difficulty because I hate cheating computers. I'll edit this post with the episode when I finish it.

Proper play:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Starting area, plus starting area with a little exploration and place where I'll put the town. Nothing much to say. Cold terrain is actually good for me, so no complains there, and the deer is nice. Without techs I'm not able to know if there's any metal around, so that's a big question. I have one scout and one warrior. I built one extra scout and one extra warrior, so I can explore more and have extra defenses against barbarians (a real, present and permanent threat in FoH2)
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Tech. I'll start with crafting, go to ancient chants (for monuments, so I can get culture at a city I can possibly create.

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Our present civic options. All of them are at a single type of option, so are mutually exclusive. We are using Natiohood, as it's the standard for Illians.

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Exploration. You might notice I can see the good/neutral elves (the L-something. They're generally good with one neutral leader possibility. They're also imperialistic and ultra expansive. Expect them to be in one of the first places in points. Also, if you never played FoH2, you may find strange the amount of mountains there are around. The Erebus map (the standard map for the game) does tend to do so, creating walls of mountains. It so seems that my only way out is at that one square with a watch tower, at east, but it'll have to be confirmed with further exploration.

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A little more exploration. Found one of the unique features. Odio's Prison. I'll see if I can transcribe (or if someone wants to do it for me I'll be more than grateful) the description, but on effects, it basically gives +25% combat to any unit near it (2-3 squares of distance max). Also found Raw Mana. Raw Mana is awesome, as it allow me to create a mana of my choice when I get the tech for it, which allows me to casts the spells of that school, with the proper unit and proper upgrades for that unit. Some kinds of mana also gives small general bonuses.

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VOLCANO! We have struck magma! I don't think it have any real effect though, except maybe a small unrest penalty.

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Tech! Nothing particularly important though. Starting Ancient Chants.

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More exploration, plus killed the scout killed a wolf. Gave him hills promotion. Seems this way is closed.

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Event. If I had order as state religion, I could start a golden age now. There's one event for most/all religions. So, unless you're playing Cassiel, you'll get yours some day. If you ARE playing Cassiel, tell the gods to screw a goat and go away. You are awesome, your adventurers are awesome, and you want all gods to [lost in translation] and [lost in translation], as they truly deserve for screwing with the mortal races.

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More exploration, I seem to have found the way out my mountain cage. Also, nice a village. The previous two I had found only had a small handful of gold, so I didn't care to call attention to them, but who knows what this might brings.

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They gave me a tech, nice! Or to be precise, it would be very nice if I were not about 2 freaking turns from completing it myself. Still, saved me a couple turns. Going to farming, because food is good.

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Oops, lost a scout to a bear.

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Oops, lost another scout to another bear. Also, more exploration. It seems there's only a single way out the mountain valley we're in.

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A view of known resources, a view of our influence range, and a general view of the map, with the overall way out (as we know till now), and where the elven influence range seems to be, both marked.

The game will be picking up speed with more turns, and more options will be given, but for now: Suggestions of names for the Capital, and future cities? Any other suggestion you want to make? If no one makes a good point (for now I'll try to play my best (which is not actually very good). I'll surrender to your will a little later in the game, after we're established and I don't have to take and edit over 40 screen shots for the episode.

On more technical aspects, is the image size and quality good enough? If not, should they be bigger, smaller, just change quality, don't crop them? Is photobucket a decent enough host, or should I use another? Anything else I should consider?
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: EuchreJack on May 21, 2011, 12:59:50 am
So, do the elves need to go through you in order to leave the mountain range area, or do they have their own exit?

It looks like they may have to kill you to expand, if they don't have their own exit.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Felius on May 21, 2011, 08:47:42 am
Quote from: EuchreJack on May 21, 2011, 12:59:50 am
So, do the elves need to go through you in order to leave the mountain range area, or do they have their own exit?

It looks like they may have to kill you to expand, if they don't have their own exit.
They're beyond the mountain range. I might be able to talk with them when their influence range expands, but we can't move units to each others territory as of now. There's probably a connection further in the way out I've pointed, so no need of fighting them yet.

This terrain is pretty good defensively, so we're pretty good if we want to ascend?

What would be a good intended update rate?
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: RedKing on May 21, 2011, 09:21:39 am
Just an FYI, I think you have the Elohim confused with the Bannor. The Bannor are the militant, rigid lawful good guys. The Elohim are the sort of diplomatic neutral good guys (whose main power is that they can conquer an enemy city and continue to produce the other faction's units there). Sheaim and Elohim in a game together can get interesting because each side has a ritual they can build (repeatedly) to raise or lower the Armageddon Counter.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Felius on May 21, 2011, 12:47:55 pm
Quote from: RedKing on May 21, 2011, 09:21:39 am
Just an FYI, I think you have the Elohim confused with the Bannor. The Bannor are the militant, rigid lawful good guys. The Elohim are the sort of diplomatic neutral good guys (whose main power is that they can conquer an enemy city and continue to produce the other faction's units there). Sheaim and Elohim in a game together can get interesting because each side has a ritual they can build (repeatedly) to raise or lower the Armageddon Counter.
I think I did indeed got the two confused when describing them.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Il Palazzo on May 21, 2011, 01:20:11 pm
Re: organizational stuff.
-the pics are o.k.
-update rate: whatever you like best. Post an update whenever you've got some interesting stuff to report.
I'd say a bit less image-heavy? Maybe not every minor event deserves more than a brief mention, and not every unit lost needs it's resting place documented, etc. It's just my opinion though.
The maps showing the extent of our dominion at the end of an update is a great idea.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Felius on May 21, 2011, 06:42:36 pm
I played more turns and took more pictures to be edited later.

I also have reached a conclusion: I suck. I'm dead last place points, two cities while most others have 3-5, lagging behind the tech race so bad it's not even funny. I like playing the underdog but this is kinda ridiculous.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Korbac on May 22, 2011, 12:47:15 pm
Maybe restart / try again? It doesn't seem like you'd lose much in terms of time invested.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Il Palazzo on May 22, 2011, 02:00:10 pm
Do not fret! You can do it! Don't give up hope! Losing is fun!

Seriously, you don't need to be the biggest and strongest nation to be able to kick ass in FfH.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Gantolandon on May 22, 2011, 05:51:10 pm
You need to research religious tech when playing as Illians. Tundra sucks for you as much as for the other nations, only the ice boosts your farming output. You need Temples of the Hand built quick to be able to do anything productive with this nation.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Felius on May 22, 2011, 08:08:47 pm
Quote from: Il Palazzo on May 22, 2011, 02:00:10 pm
Do not fret! You can do it! Don't give up hope! Losing is fun!

Seriously, you don't need to be the biggest and strongest nation to be able to kick ass in FfH.

How about being the weakest? With hunting researched I've explored most of the map using a combination of open border treats and hawks, with a couple map trades. I can say with certainity, I'm the weakest civilization by far in the game right now.  :P
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Neonivek on May 23, 2011, 02:22:57 am
Usually you can catch the computer as long as you don't fall too far behind.

Placement in the early game is meaningless.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Deon on May 23, 2011, 04:48:25 am
The scoreboard means nothing. I usually play on Deity, and I am almost on the last place during the whole game, yet proper usage of promotions, magic an heroes makes me a victor in the end :).

P.S. You cannot technically lose on Noble difficulty. Just build a lot javeleeners, station them in cities, support them with priests of winter and go for ascencion. Eventually you will win.


P.P.S. As illians, do not build temples of the hand in cities with good tiles. Snow, even for illians, sucks. Do it only where you have too much tundra.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Neonivek on May 23, 2011, 09:08:34 am
Quote
Snow, even for illians, sucks

Really?  :-\

You would think they would mitigate it quite well.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Deon on May 23, 2011, 09:10:03 am
Totally sucks. Just two food, and no commerce on rivers. Just think about it :).
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Il Palazzo on May 23, 2011, 12:44:30 pm
Quote from: Deon on May 23, 2011, 09:10:03 am
Totally sucks. Just two food, and no commerce on rivers. Just think about it :).
Now, this is how it was done in Orbis, so it might not apply here, but in that modmod you could build farms on ice when playing as Illians.

Actually, I'd strongly recommend you to try Orbis(Master of Mana is not bad too, but I've only played a couple short games with this one) - the mechanics are tweaked in a way that makes the gameplay much more fitting the fantasy setting. The races are highly individualized, with a lot of additional unique abilities, there is more resources on the map(balanced my different requirements for e.g. city growth), cool fort mechanics(you can claim forts outside your borders, which then expand the borders around themselves), more interesting races etc. - it feels a lot more RPG'ish and IMO fun.
Illians specifically have the ability to turn their borders into ice by default, some of their units are invisible in the snow, have huge bonuses for fighting in snow/tundra, and they get a production bonus from tundras, making the new Ice Age a sensible goal to strive for.

Master of Mana is even more tweaked, with spell research, including battle spells and overland enchantements, completely different economy(you need to e.g. collect wood/stone/metal/leather etc. to equip your troops with better weapons and armour, you need to pay upkeep for city improvements and more), new optional game goals(kinda like huge quests) and probably more that I haven't found out yet.
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 24, 2011, 12:07:56 am
In vanilla FFH you can build farms on ice too. So yeah, I think it's sensible to build temples of the hand: Ice is good for you (as good as pastures). And bad for your foes, which means that any city you lose will be nigh-unusable for them.

I tried some of the FFH modmods but found most of the additions unsatisfying, so I've stuck to vanilla
Title: Re: CIV IV - Fall from Heaven Let's Play
Post by: Deon on May 24, 2011, 09:56:32 am
The problem with ice is the lack of commerce and hammers. You do not need that much food, and I've already played all versions of all FFH2 modmods :P. Even plain grassland which is considered inferior to plains is better than snow.