Interested, will stay tuned for details.
EBWOP
hector why did you kill our grand finale? What do you have against this show?
Jack A TI can think of several reasonable reasons why you've done this. Have people reacted as you'd anticipated?
NQT Of all the people in the game, who worries you the most?TheDarkStar and Jack know how to play so them.
TDS who do you hope will protect you N1? (if such a role exists, obviously)
Also, would you share the reasons why Jack A T may have done what he did? (that's a question to you to, Jack. Explain yourself)No.
it's the first day so votes get thrown everywhere so fine.Correct.
AbstractTraitorHero: What about this second vote?See, this is often legitimate but I've seen scum do this loads of times as piling in on a newcomer is a cheap way to get a lynch without thinking too much about it. I don't like it.
NQT well, this is a hard question to answer for reasons I will not say (but will take into account, because I kinda have to once I think of it). My strategy will be trying to use all the investigation/roleblock/etc night actions to find the mafia or an SK if there is one.So... you just want to focus on your night game? That's considered bad form.
Also, would you share the reasons why Jack A T may have done what he did? (that's a question to you to, Jack. Explain yourself)Yes, as soon as he's posted again I will.
And how do you respond to TDS voting ATH as well? I've got my feelings, what're yours?It sits uneasily with me.
BlackHeartKabal how much mafia experience do you have?Oh, more than you would think, but I don't consider myself a veteran.
TDSAbstractTraitorHero: What about this second vote?See, this is often legitimate but I've seen scum do this loads of times as piling in on a newcomer is a cheap way to get a lynch without thinking too much about it. I don't like it.QuoteAnd how do you respond to TDS voting ATH as well? I've got my feelings, what're yours?It sits uneasily with me.
Everyone Jack A T refused to talk about his actions. What do you think of this?
TDS - How's it feel being voted for bandwagoning?
So you admit to bandwagoning?TDS - How's it feel being voted for bandwagoning?
Cool, since I'm now being bandwagoned for bandwagoning.
TDS - How's it feel being voted for bandwagoning?
Slightly but that comes with the territory.TDSAbstractTraitorHero: What about this second vote?See, this is often legitimate but I've seen scum do this loads of times as piling in on a newcomer is a cheap way to get a lynch without thinking too much about it. I don't like it.QuoteAnd how do you respond to TDS voting ATH as well? I've got my feelings, what're yours?It sits uneasily with me.
Why do you think it's not a legitimate vote this time?
ATH: Are you suspicious of my vote?Everyone Jack A T refused to talk about his actions. What do you think of this?
It's a crazy gambit. It always is.TDS - How's it feel being voted for bandwagoning?
Cool, since I'm now being bandwagoned for bandwagoning.
Well Concrete evidence is amazing and well it helps that in my first game i was a power role just the info they provide really.BlackHeartKabal how much mafia experience do you have?Oh, more than you would think, but I don't consider myself a veteran.
Hector - How much mafia experience do you have?
Moonlit - What's your favorite role?
TDS - How's it feel being voted for bandwagoning?
Tawa - Are you a lurker?
ATH - Why are you so reliant on power roles?
NQT - Do you plan to clear yourself and take lead of the town?
O. Wilde - You don't talk much, do you?
How is that information going to help you find scum in this game?Wait yeah explain are you trying to sidetrack me?!
I can think of several reasonable reasons why you've done this.This is interesting signaling. NQT is basically announcing that he is thinking about the game, and engaged with it. He's not showing us his engagement and thought, or keeping his thoughts fully to himself. He's telling us that he has thoughts. Perhaps more importantly, he wants us to know that he has thoughts. It's worth noting that non-engagement is one of the main scumtells he looks for.
Have people reacted as you'd anticipated?For strategic reasons, I will not answer this at this time.
OH GOD HE'S BEEN POSSESSED BY ROO KILL HIM KILL HIM NAOW!ayyyyyy
BlackHeartKabal: Why did you very deliberately choose not to interact with me or comment on my actions?You're assuming things. I chose not to interact with you because I didn't have any questions for you at the time, and why comment on your actions when others already have? I'm mostly unconcerned with you because you're Order Ovate tier unpredictable, a wild card that nobody really can keep track of, and there's no point in trying to do so. Depending on whether you're town or mafia, this is either a good thing or a bad thing, if your gambit-of-the-week is successful. The only question I really want to ask you is what are you planning, but you're not going to answer me, at least not truthfully, so there's no point.
Hector13: What did you hope to accomplish with your question to me (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155155.msg6769547#msg6769547)? How did the resemblance of my actions to those of roo guide your play?
And also so I don't die.This stands out. You're concerned about being killed for having an effective day game. You're worried about appearing too town, but you're also happy to tell us that you have this worry. How important for you is staying alive in the game vs. outing scum?
Everyone Jack A T refused to talk about his actions. What do you think of this?He was hanging on for his big post, which we all now know in retrospect.
And here's another Everyone question, but more directed to people who've played with Jack before. What is Jack's playstyle? I know BHK's post kind of answers it, but I'd like to know what you feel about it. What does it focus on?He's on the upper end of solid Bay12 play. He asks a lot of questions, communicates in walls of quotes just like the rest of us, posts frequently but doesn't shitpost. He doesn't make obvious mistakes and he's not especially prone to suicidal gambits that I can recall. Go read one of his past games if you like. Do you think knowing player's meta is important for scum hunting?
NQT - Do you plan to clear yourself and take lead of the town?It'd be nice if other people clear me, but it's not necessary for my game strategy. Whether I'm cleared or not, I will try and lead the town where necessary. I tend to wrangle people to get them to vote effectively. How about you: will you lead the town? Or will you be led?
Why do you think it's not a legitimate vote this time?It might be! But what I'm saying is it falls into a category of votes that I don't like. If the game ended right this moment with no more evidence to go on, I'd be happy with your lynch. Are you tempted to vote for the person wagoning you for wagoning?
asked a reasonable question (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155155.msg6769617#msg6769617), but quite early: there weren't exactly many reactions at that point. Could have been assuming I would answer later, after more players posted, though.Yeah, I pretty much figured if you had a plan going on you'd play it out to the end.
This is interesting signaling. NQT is basically announcing that he is thinking about the game, and engaged with it. He's not showing us his engagement and thought, or keeping his thoughts fully to himself. He's telling us that he has thoughts. Perhaps more importantly, he wants us to know that he has thoughts. It's worth noting that non-engagement is one of the main scumtells he looks for.So things I considered in order from least to most WIFOMY:
He's promised to give these thoughts after this post. Let's see what they are.
notquitethere: Tell me, why did you want everyone to know that you had thought of reasonable reasons for my self-vote?I thought it most likely you were fishing for reactions, and if you're town and I see you have a plan then it'd be counterproductive of me to spoil the plan before it's come to fruition. Same reason you don't answer other people's questions for them. So I was acknowledging what you were doing without spoiling it, but also setting up an obligation for myself to show that I was paying attention. That make sense?
I'll ask you again on Day 2 if we're both alive and there's nothing more pressing to talk about.Have people reacted as you'd anticipated?For strategic reasons, I will not answer this at this time.
O. Wilde Hypothetical: You are the cop, and can discover another player's role during the night-phase. There are 5 players that you are interested in investigating: 2 players who have been arguing with each other for most of the day, and are voting each other; 2 players who have interjected in their argument pointing out things that were missed and asking questions of both parties involved. These players are each voting for one of the two arguing players; finally, a lurker, who hasn't really posted anything of substance. Who do you investigate, and why?Depends on who gets lynched. If one of the two arguing players is lynched, I'd investigate one of the people pointing things out. The lurker is gonna take flak day 2 for not posting anyway, so why bother with an investigation on them just yet? I think scum would be more likely to hide on the edges of arguments, picking things apart while not really talking all that much.
Everyone Jack A T refused to talk about his actions. What do you think of this?He refused to talk about one action. A stonewall block on talking about a RVS self vote does not a Roo make.
Tawa - Are you a lurker?Preemptive lurkerhunt much? I was taking a nap, it's been 3 hours of game. You talk a lot, don't you?
O. Wilde - You don't talk much, do you?
O wilde I guess I like his name but I don't know their playstyles enough.Sidenote: I played 1 (or two? I can't remember) BMs a couple years ago on these forums under the name Scelly9 if you want some cringe-worthy reading material.
I'm mostly unconcerned with you because you're Order Ovate tier unpredictable, a wild card that nobody really can keep track of, and there's no point in trying to do so.So you're unconcerned because he could potentially make a good town or an amazing mafia player? Do you really think there's no point trying to keep track of his 'gambit-of-the-week'? Even if it's a difficult thing to do, shouldn't we at least be trying to hold him accountable for whatever crap he ends up pulling?
BlackHeartKabalLovely to meet you too. If I end up clear, which I doubt, I'll wrangle people, yeah, but the town works best collectively instead of having one person decide things. I prefer to be a follower, because a leader doesn't have the time to sit back and observe, but I'll take control if nobody else will.
Please to meet you, I don't think we've played together yet. I like that you asked everyone a question: it's something both scum and town do but at least it gets conversations started.NQT - Do you plan to clear yourself and take lead of the town?It'd be nice if other people clear me, but it's not necessary for my game strategy. Whether I'm cleared or not, I will try and lead the town where necessary. I tend to wrangle people to get them to vote effectively. How about you: will you lead the town? Or will you be led?
BHKI'd like to assume that someone else who knows exactly what he pulls would be better fit to keep an eye on him. But sometimes a townie or mafioso has to be creative to win, and depending on what he is, he could either be an amazing asset or a priority target. I'm unconcerned because I assume someone more qualified to be watching him would be.I'm mostly unconcerned with you because you're Order Ovate tier unpredictable, a wild card that nobody really can keep track of, and there's no point in trying to do so.So you're unconcerned because he could potentially make a good town or an amazing mafia player? Do you really think there's no point trying to keep track of his 'gambit-of-the-week'? Even if it's a difficult thing to do, shouldn't we at least be trying to hold him accountable for whatever crap he ends up pulling?
Wait, does everyone have a role? On the OP, there are 8 'actors', so I'm assuming that those are the roles. But we have 9 players... so... 1 vanilla townie? Or something else?read it again, there are 9 roles listed.
Wait, does everyone have a role? On the OP, there are 8 'actors', so I'm assuming that those are the roles. But we have 9 players... so... 1 vanilla townie? Or something else?
You're assuming things. .1. I chose not to interact with you because I didn't have any questions for you at the time .2., and why comment on your actions when others already have? I'm mostly unconcerned with you because you're Order Ovate tier unpredictable, a wild card that nobody really can keep track of, and there's no point in trying to do so. Depending on whether you're town or mafia, this is either a good thing or a bad thing, if your gambit-of-the-week is successful. The only question I really want to ask you is what are you planning .3., but you're not going to answer me, at least not truthfully, so there's no point.BlackHeartKabal:
If I end up clear, which I doubt, I'll wrangle people, yeah, but the town works best collectively instead of having one person decide things. I prefer to be a follower, because a leader doesn't have the time to sit back and observe, but I'll take control if nobody else will.Interesting. Will we see a lot of open discussion of people's cases from you?
(and as you just pointed out, not answering is an answer)The Moonlit Shadow: Not quite what I said, but alright. What do the failures to answer tell you?
'Suicidal man' thing was a joke, but also meant to call attention to you as well.You felt my self-vote needed more attention?
What is Jack's playstyle?Bland, but competent, B12-typicalish play. Usually. Why do you ask?
So you admit to bandwagoning?TDS - How's it feel being voted for bandwagoning?
Cool, since I'm now being bandwagoned for bandwagoning.
TheDarkStar did not engage, and later identified my second post (and by extension my first) as a crazy gambit (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155155.msg6769745#msg6769745).
TheDarkStar: You identified my actions as a gambit. What made you decide not to engage?
And here's another Everyone question, but more directed to people who've played with Jack before. What is Jack's playstyle? I know BHK's post kind of answers it, but I'd like to know what you feel about it. What does it focus on?
TDSWhy do you think it's not a legitimate vote this time?It might be! But what I'm saying is it falls into a category of votes that I don't like. If the game ended right this moment with no more evidence to go on, I'd be happy with your lynch. Are you tempted to vote for the person wagoning you for wagoning?
1. I don't know what you're assuming, I'm not Jack A.T. You're assuming something, clearly, and that's taking you somewhere else.You're assuming things. .1. I chose not to interact with you because I didn't have any questions for you at the time .2., and why comment on your actions when others already have? I'm mostly unconcerned with you because you're Order Ovate tier unpredictable, a wild card that nobody really can keep track of, and there's no point in trying to do so. Depending on whether you're town or mafia, this is either a good thing or a bad thing, if your gambit-of-the-week is successful. The only question I really want to ask you is what are you planning .3., but you're not going to answer me, at least not truthfully, so there's no point.BlackHeartKabal:
1. Oh? What do you think I am assuming?
2. You were out of "favourite role"-level questions to ask?
3. A Criminology essay, model NATO strategies, some scumhunting, reading, which ferry to take...
As for my unpredictability/gambitiness/wild-card-nature, I can see how you got that impression, but I wouldn't really consider myself that sort of player. Occasional gambits, not routine.If I end up clear, which I doubt, I'll wrangle people, yeah, but the town works best collectively instead of having one person decide things. I prefer to be a follower, because a leader doesn't have the time to sit back and observe, but I'll take control if nobody else will..4. Interesting. Will we see a lot of open discussion of people's cases from you?
So you admit to bandwagoning?TDS - How's it feel being voted for bandwagoning?
Cool, since I'm now being bandwagoned for bandwagoning.
People think I'm bandwagoning, so they're voting for me. Do you think I'm bandwagoning? Do you think the vote matters at this stage of the game?
It is if you're bandwagoning, which you've admit to doing.
I'm available to replace in for Tawa if you need someone.sure, sending you pm now
Tawa Pre-game, which role were you hoping to get and why?I wasn't hoping to get any role because I wasn't expecting to be in this game.
Tawa - Are you a lurker?No.
One of us is the one. Everyone is suspect, no one is to be trusted with your life.That's some interesting wording. I haven't seen any reason to believe there's only one person on the scum team, nor anything that would make you jump to that conclusion unless you had prior knowledge of the scumteam's makeup.
NQT - Do you plan to clear yourself and take lead of the town?What is it that you think NQT needs to clear himself of? There wasn't any case on him prior to you saying this.
BHK:Wrongly assuming that people are town loses games.NQT - Do you plan to clear yourself and take lead of the town?What is it that you think NQT needs to clear himself of? There wasn't any case on him prior to you saying this.
I didn't say I thought he was town. I said you hadn't presented any case on him and it was therefore impossible to clear himself. Did you want him to present irrefutable evidence that he was town?BHK:Wrongly assuming that people are town loses games.NQT - Do you plan to clear yourself and take lead of the town?What is it that you think NQT needs to clear himself of? There wasn't any case on him prior to you saying this.
Yes, but not today.I didn't say I thought he was town. I said you hadn't presented any case on him and it was therefore impossible to clear himself. Did you want him to present irrefutable evidence that he was town?BHK:Wrongly assuming that people are town loses games.NQT - Do you plan to clear yourself and take lead of the town?What is it that you think NQT needs to clear himself of? There wasn't any case on him prior to you saying this.
Deus Asmoth expressions/idiom please.Uh huh. So do you often refer to groups as being a single person?
hector not much going on huh? No scum to catch, everything fine?
I'll drop a vote on TDS just now, while I have the time.
EBWOP TDS, for lack of colors
Yeah... no PM's in mafia ATH. But since you even mentioned it... anyone know a role which can do that?
Deus: Pretty much. Really can't say anything, but that bit's not quite enough to lynch me. I should really be more concerned, with all the scumtells/suspiciousness on me adding up, but... :/ I guess I am. No great way to react tho.
Oh come now, let's just continue the bandwagoning eh TDS?
Jack, if you had a one shot daykill and the mafia ate your baby, what would you do? More seriously, why end your gambit so quickly if the aim was to judge people's reactions to it?Deus: I'd <insert same response everyone gives here> if I had the one-shot daykill and the mafia ate my baby. Regarding my gambit, I gained the initial wave of (non)reactions I wanted, and while I could have gained more reactions by going on, I'd be throwing away too much time I could use to actually talk. Tradeoffs.
It is if you're bandwagoning, which you've admit to doing.This is silly. Verbal trickery does not a case make.
You're asking me to ignore the context of your vote then? Cool. I expect you to not be bothered by the way the others vote for the rest of the game.
TDS: To what extent did you consider the previous Moonlit votes when you laid your vote? How valid do you find the previous Moonlit votes to be, and why?
You're asking me to ignore the context of your vote then? Cool. I expect you to not be bothered by the way the others vote for the rest of the game.
I'm asking you to consider if the vote was legitimate or not. Stop dodging the question.
The Moonlit Shadow: What do you expect to get out of asking about specific kinds of roles and what have you done that you think is suspicious?
BlackHeartKabal: To respond: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155155.msg6770883#msg6770883)1. Verbal trickery does not a cause make.
1. I don't expect you to know, but you didn't and won't speculate? Do you think my assumption, whatever it is, is incorrect?
2. Not what I asked. To clarify: did you run out of silly RQS questions to ask, questions of about the quality and value of 'favourite role?'?
3. I think it's something that's useful to know, while not completely directly related to the game. Also helps with my instinctual reads. ATH said something relating to this topic. Do you view it the same way you view this?I don't see which of ATH's comments you're referring to. I think knowing people's meta play is useful if they have a very distinct style, otherwise less so. For instance, some people have expectations of me doing some kind of analytical post and if I don't do it or I do it obviously poorly, people sometimes get suspicious.
NQT - What do you think the role of a Vanilla townie, Vigilante, Doctor, and Cop is during the day?Role of vanilla town is to try and hunt scum and try to draw the mafia kill from the cop. The doctor needs to cop hunt to know who to protect. Vigilante needs to know when not to fire: all too often they let loose kills early and do more harm than good. Do you agree?
So the thing is, it almost never looks good if a player tries to present 'irrefutable' evidence in their favour. Singing your own praises doesn't tend to work out.I didn't say I thought he was town. I said you hadn't presented any case on him and it was therefore impossible to clear himself. Did you want him to present irrefutable evidence that he was town?Yes, but not today.
BHKI agree completely. You seem to have healthy knowledge of the jobs each role has.NQT - What do you think the role of a Vanilla townie, Vigilante, Doctor, and Cop is during the day?Role of vanilla town is to try and hunt scum and try to draw the mafia kill from the cop. The doctor needs to cop hunt to know who to protect. Vigilante needs to know when not to fire: all too often they let loose kills early and do more harm than good. Do you agree?
BlackHeartKabal: Nice snarkiness, but when I ask questions, I want them answered. Answer the questions.BlackHeartKabal: To respond: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155155.msg6770883#msg6770883)1. Verbal trickery does not a cause make.
1. I don't expect you to know, but you didn't and won't speculate? Do you think my assumption, whatever it is, is incorrect?
I'm pointing out what you asked me to do, actually.hector13: I'm sure you know full well what TDS meant by 'legitimate', yes?
It's a nonsense question anyway. Every vote is "legitimate" in that it gets counted the same.
BlackHeartKabal: Nice snarkiness, but when I ask questions, I want them answered. Answer the questions.BlackHeartKabal: To respond: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155155.msg6770883#msg6770883)1. Verbal trickery does not a cause make.
1. I don't expect you to know, but you didn't and won't speculate? Do you think my assumption, whatever it is, is incorrect?
Could I ask you what your assumption was, again?
Could I ask you what your assumption was, again?After you give me a straight answer, I'll answer this new question. To answer before you would undermine my questions to you, I believe.
hector13: I'm sure you know full well what TDS meant by 'legitimate', yes?
Yes. Do I think the answer to the question is necessary, given that he's asking me to ignore the context of his vote? No.Hector13: Certainly, the context issue is your main defence of not answering, and I understand it. Why, though, did you decide to use the definition of 'legitimate' to justify your non-answer as well?
I don't know your assumption, so I don't know if it's incorrect or not.Could I ask you what your assumption was, again?After you give me a straight answer, I'll answer this new question. To answer before you would undermine my questions to you, I believe.
Yes. Do I think the answer to the question is necessary, given that he's asking me to ignore the context of his vote? No.Hector13: Certainly, the context issue is your main defence of not answering, and I understand it. Why, though, did you decide to use the definition of 'legitimate' to justify your non-answer as well?
Hector, super suspicious there. Is that defending I saw?
BHK, I suspect the roles were made somewhat to confound expectations. But I'll speculate:You were correct about one.
The dazzling trapeze duo who flies through the air without a care in the world: two players have a role with some movement: perhaps they're protectors who can whisk folk away from danger.
The graceful tightrope walker who balances on a thin wire without a net: they're above everyone, so maybe some kind of watcher/tracker role.
The man who is strong enough to lift 10,000 lbs: could have a kill, but maybe more likely a guard like ability?
The fearless lion tamer who will stick not one arm but TWO inside the mouth of the beast: probably has a whip or chair, so maybe a paranoid gun owner type or blocker.
Bingo and Bongo, a pair of clowns that will leave you rolling around on the floor laughing: my guess for the mafia team, or maybe laughter is a roleblock.
A mysterious hypnotist that can make you do whatever he wants: almost certainly a redirector
A magician born half-sized, but don't tell that to his face: anger issues and magic? I'd say serial killer were it not for the fact there's only 9 players.
I'm probably wrong with more than half the above. What do you reckon?
Which leads me back to the main question I asked: did you or did you not, and will you or will you not, speculate about what my assumption is?I'm not a mind reader, I don't see much of a point on speculating about your assumption.
I'm not a mind reader, I don't see much of a point on speculating about your assumption.
Because I don't think it's going to produce anything worthwhile, and I think he's up to something.I'm not a mind reader, I don't see much of a point on speculating about your assumption.
This strikes me awfully of playing it safe, sitting on the fence and hemming and hawing. Why don't you want to stand out by assigning a position to Jack?
BHK, do you, as I, suspect everyone has a night action?No. I think that there are some vanilla townies in play.
Because I don't think it's going to produce anything worthwhile, and I think he's up to something.I'm not a mind reader, I don't see much of a point on speculating about your assumption.
This strikes me awfully of playing it safe, sitting on the fence and hemming and hawing. Why don't you want to stand out by assigning a position to Jack?
SO YOU ARE A POWER ROLE.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jack A T, I'm a little short on time, and I can't be ninja'd because it cancels my post. Further explanation gets too private for my liking.Moonlit: Understood. I won't press you on it.
I think the people voting for you [Moonlit] aren't being quite fairhector13: Explain.
I'm not a mind reader, I don't see much of a point on speculating about your assumption.BlackHeartKabal: Understood, thank you. This is Mafia, though. None of us are mind readers, I hope, yet we all are constantly speculating about the motivations and assumptions behind everyone's words and actions. It's how the game generally works, even on the most action-focused sites. What makes this situation unworthy of the usual speculation?
[...]and I think he's up to something.Oh?
And what's a VT?Moonlit: Vanilla Townie.
I didn't say that I wasn't a power role, though.SO YOU ARE A POWER ROLE.Ok, stupid reaction. We already knew that, if BHK is to be trusted. ...:)
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
O.Wilde, so far what I've seen of you is a bit of question answering and an (admittedly believable) breakdown of the roles in the game.I mean, I'd hardly call that a breakdown. That was just numbers copy-pasted from the OP.
Two-man scum teams tend to have a talker and a lurker. I'm not saying you're lurking (we're only 24 hours in!) but right now I haven't seen enough of you to get much of handle.Yeah, apologies for that. I didn't get a chance to jump into the real first couple hours of RVS due to real life, and this game shifted to more serious things a lot faster than any others I've played. I'll be much more active from here on in.
Everyone but Tawa's said some things: who deserves your vote right now?I'll get to this in a second.
I think I'm the only one (whose being bandwagoned) that actually has a hint of suspicion there.How special. <3 <3
Really can't say anything, but that bit's not quite enough to lynch me.That really depends on who votes for you, actually.
Ok, stupid reaction. We already knew that, if BHK is to be trusted. ...:)Why do you do things like this? Why qualify you last statement without adding anything of substance? Especially the last bit?
How on earth do you expect irrefutable evidence to exist in Mafia?Yes, but not today.Quote from: Re:Irrefutable Evidence
We already assumed u were a power roleWho is we?
Through death, mostly. Cop results work too if that cop is proven.How on earth do you expect irrefutable evidence to exist in Mafia?Yes, but not today.Quote from: Re:Irrefutable Evidence
Through death, mostly.You expect him to die, and then lead the townies? What exactly is that logic?
hector13: Explain.
I expect him to rise from the dead and direct us, of course. It isn't necessarily him that has to die. Others, depending on what they say, could clear him after their own deaths.Through death, mostly.You expect him to die, and then lead the townies? What exactly is that logic?
Ah, that makes sense.I expect him to rise from the dead and direct us, of course. It isn't necessarily him that has to die. Others, depending on what they say, could clear him after their own deaths.Through death, mostly.You expect him to die, and then lead the townies? What exactly is that logic?
Well the day is going to go on until Monday, ATH. If you're so sure of it being a wash, let's just shorten.I will Shorten
2. You talk about everything else and suspect me for my questions. Well, I have a strategy that hopefully works.I don't understand what this is in reference to.
3. We is me. :/Yeah.
Ahh... I see.
Let me be more clear. What the fuck does this mean?2. You talk about everything else and suspect me for my questions. Well, I have a strategy that hopefully works.I don't understand what this is in reference to.
We really haven't got much information out of today it looks like i suspect day 2 will be a lot more fruitful overall i have no reads really and my gut hasent told me anything yet.
Everyone mind explaining whether you think TMS is actually scum or are you just pressure voting him?
NQT that shorten is gonna kill me easily. If you're so sure of me being scum why aren't you voting me?I'd like AbstractTraitorHero to be lynched at the moment for being unable to come up with suspects. If you'd like to help me with this, feel free. Do you think Hector is scum? If so, tell me why I should vote for him.
See I'm always quite suspicious of people when they do this, ATH. I know you're newer to the game, but there's enough happening that you at least have an opinion to build on.Do you still prefer a TDS lynch? If so, tell me why I should be voting him.
Moonlit has raised a good point NQT, if we shorten the day successfully, he'll die and you know this despite voting someone else (albeit for a good reason, see above). What are you trying to pull? Not being on the bandwagon when it hits town?Now that's a good thing to be suspicious of! No, ATH correctly pointed out the day was stagnating so I thought I'd put a bit of pressure on. See what people do.
Is this the answer to my question of why you're ignoring people ignoring your questions?It's all part of a strategy. That I think is working. But meybe not.Let me be more clear. What the fuck does this mean?2. You talk about everything else and suspect me for my questions. Well, I have a strategy that hopefully works.I don't understand what this is in reference to.
NQT why do you think BHK and Hector still both have their votes on TDS? I'll answer your questions later, out of time. Kinda.Good question. Maybe it's genuine suspicion. Maybe it's inertia. Maybe it's because we've only been playing 48 hours and that's not a huge amount of time for development if people are only posting a few times a day. I've actually got some more worked out thoughts about this, but scum change how they act when I say what I'm looking for, so if we're both still alive, ask me about it at the end of D2.
See I'm always quite suspicious of people when they do this, ATH. I know you're newer to the game, but there's enough happening that you at least have an opinion to build on.Do you still prefer a TDS lynch? If so, tell me why I should be voting him.
Moonlit has raised a good point NQT, if we shorten the day successfully, he'll die and you know this despite voting someone else (albeit for a good reason, see above). What are you trying to pull? Not being on the bandwagon when it hits town?Now that's a good thing to be suspicious of! No, ATH correctly pointed out the day was stagnating so I thought I'd put a bit of pressure on. See what people do.
MoonThis boded parr is scummy as hell. For one your not voting me becuase your trying to convince people to bandwagon mw second you dident vote me which shows that your too afraid to do it and it overall seems like your just suggesting something and hoping people forget about it if they disagree so NotQuiteThere.NQT that shorten is gonna kill me easily. If you're so sure of me being scum why aren't you voting me?I'd like AbstractTraitorHero to be lynched at the moment for being unable to come up with suspects. If you'd like to help me with this, feel free.Do you think Hector is scum? If so, tell me why I should vote for him.
HectorSee I'm always quite suspicious of people when they do this, ATH. I know you're newer to the game, but there's enough happening that you at least have an opinion to build on.Do you still prefer a TDS lynch? If so, tell me why I should be voting him.Moonlit has raised a good point NQT, if we shorten the day successfully, he'll die and you know this despite voting someone else (albeit for a good reason, see above). What are you trying to pull? Not being on the bandwagon when it hits town?Now that's a good thing to be suspicious of! No, ATH correctly pointed out the day was stagnating so I thought I'd put a bit of pressure on. See what people do.
Well the day is going to go on until Monday, ATH. If you're so sure of it being a wash, let's just shorten.
He did vote for you, here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155155.msg6774491#msg6774491).Becuase he says if you'd likr to help me with this feel free that just feels like scum he sounds like it it's nonchalant and it makes it look like he wants to kill someone for the sake of killing someone.
I didn't vote for you, though I'm considering that now. Tell me why I shouldn't.
Abstract
But I did vote for you! I believe you missed it:Well the day is going to go on until Monday, ATH. If you're so sure of it being a wash, let's just shorten.
Given that, do you still think I'm a good pick to lynch?
Hector, I'll talk about people's reactions when we've had a few more reactions. I'm not getting the strongest scum vibe form Moon, no. In fact I'm fairly confident that Moon isn't scum. I'd rather see someone else lynched and I'm going to put in the work to make that happen.
Hector, I'll talk about people's reactions when we've had a few more reactions. I'm not getting the strongest scum vibe form Moon, no. In fact I'm fairly confident that Moon isn't scum. I'd rather see someone else lynched and I'm going to put in the work to make that happen.
Becuase he says if you'd likr to help me with this feel free that just feels like scum he sounds like it it's nonchalant and it makes it look like he wants to kill someone for the sake of killing someone.
NQTToo be entirely honest TMS being bandwagoned right now i figure it will dissolve quickky becuase it has little rhyme or reason so i believe that it simply isent gonna happen and he won't be lynched.Hector, I'll talk about people's reactions when we've had a few more reactions. I'm not getting the strongest scum vibe form Moon, no. In fact I'm fairly confident that Moon isn't scum. I'd rather see someone else lynched and I'm going to put in the work to make that happen.
I'm glad you can see sense. I've always found it bothersome when people jump on the first player to act a little scummy...
Presumably ATH is your present top scumpick?
What do you think of BKH so far? I've found his posts to be a little empty, as though he's just coasting along making comments, rather than getting involved... particularly during O. Wilde's questioning of you clearing yourself and leading town.
ATHBecuase he says if you'd likr to help me with this feel free that just feels like scum he sounds like it it's nonchalant and it makes it look like he wants to kill someone for the sake of killing someone.
Well you did help him with trying to shorten the day too so... what does that say about you? You're not voting Moonlit but he'd be the one getting lynched in that instance. Why do you want to see him dead?
ATHI'd say I'm not a confident scum hunter becuase i have made mistaked in the past and am trying to try and solidify feelings and suspicions before i attempt to vote and no unless a more compelling argument is presented i dont want hin to be lynched and i voted to shorten becuase things were stagnating and it appears me doing that has increased activity?
If I've understood you correctly, you agree with Hector's suggestion that I might be trying to avoid being on a town bandwagon? That's the sort of thing that can only be argued after someone flips. I can't know for sure right now whether anyone I wagon or don't wagon will flip town. If that's not what you're saying, then please explain again.
I'm voting you right now because you've been unable to come up with a case on anyone yet and yet you still want the day to end. Moonlight is currently on track to being lynched, would you be okay with that happening?
Hector
Right now I don't like ATH's play that much (inability to form a case is not a strong town trait). I want to get a better feel for whether they're just a less confident scum hunter or whether they genuinely cannot form suspicions. I'll take another look at BHK.
The long awaited answer to your question, NQT.
I think my first vote was on Hector. Mainly RVS, but then backed up by some semi-suspicious behavior. Now it's kinda gone, except that he cares too much about me. Now that type of stuff is less scummy to me (and more scummy to you, as you'd probably think that we're the scum team), unless he's trying to frame me. But that's really not as useful when we'd be better off lynching him.
TDS, you've been kinda absent and people are talking about you. You're also in line to be lynched (second or first tie with me, which I can easily even up by voting you). Anything to say?
"I bought us a bit of time with promises of free popcorn, its coming out of your guy's paychecks, so are we any closer to finding the killer, oh and when did that guy get here, oh one of the performers ran away and this guy filled in great, nice to meet you, there's a killer and it might have been you, figure it out."
I think my first vote was on Hector. Mainly RVS, but then backed up by some semi-suspicious behavior. Now it's kinda gone, except that he cares too much about me. Now that type of stuff is less scummy to me (and more scummy to you, as you'd probably think that we're the scum team), unless he's trying to frame me. But that's really not as useful when we'd be better off lynching him.It's understandable he's care about you: you're the vote leader right now. I don't think you're on the same team, I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here.
Too be entirely honest TMS being bandwagoned right now i figure it will dissolve quickky becuase it has little rhyme or reason so i believe that it simply isent gonna happen and he won't be lynched.But somebody has to be lynched today. If it's not Moonlight, then who will you be okay with being lynched?
I'd say I'm not a confident scum hunter becuase i have made mistaked in the past and am trying to try and solidify feelings and suspicions before i attempt to vote and no unless a more compelling argument is presented i dont want hin to be lynched and i voted to shorten becuase things were stagnating and it appears me doing that has increased activity?OK, that's all understandable enough. Would you like everyone else to vote for me as well?
Everyone mind explaining whether you think TMS is actually scum or are you just pressure voting him?I don't necessarily think he's scum, but at the time I was voting him I thought he was the scummiest player playing. I'm not sure about that now.
Yes i do it just sounds like you don't care it soumds scummy if you would lije to explain yourself I'd be happy to listen.So, do you think it's more important to not sound scummy than it is to scumhunt?
Why would I be trying to frame you? You were doing a pretty good job of being scummy on your own, you needed no help from me.Now, why the sudden 180? A page ago you were saying how much of his jitteryness could have been newbishness. Now, I agree with you on the framing comment. Although, I find it likely that he's just paranoid. Has your view really shifted enough to lynch him in the last page? Or do you just not care who you lynch, as long as it's not your partner?
Wilde, TDS, Deus: You obviously disagree with my assessment. Why?I was mainly pressure voting, I don't think he's lynch worth as of now.
I think my first vote was on Hector.Yep.
Mainly RVS,Entirely RVS. You were the first to post.
Now it's kinda gone, except that he cares too much about me. Now that type of stuff is less scummy to me (and more scummy to you, as you'd probably think that we're the scum team), unless he's trying to frame me. But that's really not as useful when we'd be better off lynching him.The more you tell me what I probably think, and point out your own scumminess, the more I think you're attempting to hide something by bringing it forward yourself rather than let someone else bring it up.
NQT I Disagree becuase if we don't lynch a scum day 1 and lynch a townie we lose two town and have less time to figure out who the mafia is and asking who I'd be okay with lynching it sounds like your trying to find a way to lay off you and go after someone else so you i am most suspicious about and no i just want to figure out whether your scum and if i reach that conclusion i hope to listen to other's and either confirm that others feel are scum and lynch you or we all agree that for now you are innocent.Are you saying you want to not lynch day 1?
O.Wilde@We're never going to all agree that someone is scum. Ever. That's just how mafia works.
Yes unless we can all agree that we believe that the person we are lynching is scum becuase if we lynch a townie were gonna lose two townies by day 2 most likely and as such the mafia becuase we don't know their exact number they would be closer to victory and we would have less days overall to scumhunt.
I found something else to add to this.Why would I be trying to frame you? You were doing a pretty good job of being scummy on your own, you needed no help from me.Now, why the sudden 180? A page ago you were saying how much of his jitteryness could have been newbishness. Now, I agree with you on the framing comment. Although, I find it likely that he's just paranoid. Has your view really shifted enough to lynch him in the last page? Or do you just not care who you lynch, as long as it's not your partner?
Moonlit is, at this point, the easy lynch.Is that why you're voting him?
His question(s) (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155155.msg6772182;topicseen#msg6772182) to Moonlit when he voted also struck me as leading Moonlit to incriminate himself further. Doesn't seem to spring from town motivated play.So now you think moonlit is scum, do you still think TDS is? Also this is such hypocritical crap.
Well you did help him with trying to shorten the day too so... what does that say about you? You're not voting Moonlit but he'd be the one getting lynched in that instance. Why do you want to see him dead?Is this not leading someone to incriminate themselves further? Is this ENTIRE GAME not based on getting people to incriminate themselves? This reasoning sucks.
Hector, are you sure your current vote isn't an OMGUS?
ATH: what information would you be planning to scumhunt with during day 2 if no one gets lynched today?Well we will know a dead townies role look at who was accusing them start with interogating them and moving on and on till we found someone who seems suspicious or too quiet and keep interrogating till we find scum.
NQT/Jack: TMS referring to the scum team as a single person just feels off to me, especially after we have apparent flavour confirmation that there was only a single killer. I wouldn't expect a new player to be as confident as he seems to be that he won't get lynched if he was scum though.
As for a one person scumteam, it seems fairly unlikely unless they've got some extremely powerful role. Flavour wise, the reference to a single killer seems kind of odd, but still makes sense.
Unvote.
So why can't you do that right now?Then we would have the potential to have two dead townies by day 2 which does not sound good.
Does that mean you're an investigator?Are you trying to rolefish Hector becuase if i am the investigator all you would be doing is making my death extremely likely by the magia during the night depriving any use of the role and only helping scum so your asking a preety scummy question.
See, I don't think hector is dumb enough to so obviously rolefish day one, but then again I have no clue what his play is recently. Hector, what's with all these weird accusations and loaded questions towards the two people most likely to get bandwagoned at this point?Does that mean you're an investigator?Are you trying to rolefish Hector becuase if i am the investigator all you would be doing is making my death extremely likely by the magia during the night depriving any use of the role and only helping scum so your asking a preety scummy question.
The statement itself is not the problem. I think he's telling the truth here, and that's what's alarming. The act he voted for Moonlit for had just happened right before he posted, and thus would be hard to miss. The same is basically true of his RVS vote, the first vote. The rest of his very limited behaviour? Purely reactive, purely responding to either his name or questions to everyone. This includes responding to the post in which voted for Moonlit (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155155.msg6770410#msg6770410).TDS: To what extent did you consider the previous Moonlit votes when you laid your vote?I saw the votes on him after I voted for him.
ATH and Deus Asmoth: What are your current reads on hector?Overall i get a town read off Hector and while he has said some minor things that dosent make him scum so overall I'm a little suspicious but i believe he is town.
What makes the situation unworthy of speculation is that nothing is going to come out of it, it's a waste of time speculating about that. As I said before, no point in it.I'm not a mind reader, I don't see much of a point on speculating about your assumption.BlackHeartKabal: Understood, thank you. This is Mafia, though. None of us are mind readers, I hope, yet we all are constantly speculating about the motivations and assumptions behind everyone's words and actions. It's how the game generally works, even on the most action-focused sites. What makes this situation unworthy of the usual speculation?
To answer your question, there was one major underlying assumption, and it's hard to dispute: that you made a decision not to question me, engage with me, or anything of the sort initially. That which is conspicuously absent is often as interesting as what is present, and my absence from your questioning was quite conspicuous, so I asked about it.[...]and I think he's up to something.Oh?
ATH and Deus Asmoth: What are your current reads on hector?Slight town lean. Some interesting posts. A high post count generally indicates town (though there are a few recent exceptions). Why are you asking us two specifically about him specifically?
You've repeated that several times since Jack did it. Perhaps you'd like to be useful instead?I've repeated it because it's the answer to his questions. You would prefer I not respond instead?
Not really hes on my higher list of possible scum becuase I'm a little suspicious and it's been a few hours i have been reading and forming new opinions and i still get a possible town feel off him i just feel that he could be scum as well basically my opinion changed between the two posts.I'm suspicious of hector and what looks like he tried to rolefish so he's soneone who is higher on my list of possible scum definitely.
Hmm...ATH and Deus Asmoth: What are your current reads on hector?Overall i get a town read off Hector and while he has said some minor things that dosent make him scum so overall I'm a little suspicious but i believe he is town.
ATH. I think this speaks for itself.
I'm suspicious of hector and what looks like he tried to rolefish so he's soneone who is higher on my list of possible scum definitely.
Hmm...ATH and Deus Asmoth: What are your current reads on hector?Overall i get a town read off Hector and while he has said some minor things that dosent make him scum so overall I'm a little suspicious but i believe he is town.
ATH. I think this speaks for itself.
BHK: You've done next to nothing in the last few pages. Please tell me (if you remember) if you still have your vote on TDS, also.I know I have my vote on TDS. It's there for a reason.
BlackHeartKabal: I'd love to see your reads.TheDarkStar - Ded.
How was this an OMGUS?Okay Hector13 you are blatantly bamdwagoning and just trying to kill me without giving a reason i had spme hope you weren't scum but I'm sure now becuase that was Scummy as hellUnvote.
Unvote and vote Hector13
Yep. You OMGUS'd again Hector.
TDS is definitely lurking tho.
ATH just stated that he thought Hector was prob scum.How was this an OMGUS?Unvote and vote Hector13Unvote.
Yep. You OMGUS'd again Hector.
Ah, I see.
BHK: You've done next to nothing in the last few pages. Please tell me (if you remember) if you still have your vote on TDS, also.
Everyone: Pretty sure TDS is either lurking or gone. But he's probably not gone, unless he sent a PM to filipk (assuming he doesn't know filipk is also gone).
I'm suspicious of hector and what looks like he tried to rolefish so he's soneone who is higher on my list of possible scum definitely.
Hmm...ATH and Deus Asmoth: What are your current reads on hector?Overall i get a town read off Hector and while he has said some minor things that dosent make him scum so overall I'm a little suspicious but i believe he is town.
ATH. I think this speaks for itself.
TheDarkStar - Ded.
Tawarochir - I haven't formed a read on Tawarochir.
Abstracttraitorhero - Either a new townie or a maf that is extremely good at lying.
hector13 - As of Today at 08:43:28 pm he ceased to be a relevant target to observe. If we don't lynch him today I assure you barring anything unexpected that he'll turn up dead by day 2.
TheMoonlitShadow - He plays like a townie and acts like one. He isn't as high priority as others.
O.Wilde - I could see him turning up scum, the way he plays gives me that feeling. It's nothing to move on right now, though.
notquitethere - More experienced than me, certainly. I could see him as anything, really.
I'm suspicious of hector and what looks like he tried to rolefish so he's soneone who is higher on my list of possible scum definitely.
Hmm...ATH and Deus Asmoth: What are your current reads on hector?Overall i get a town read off Hector and while he has said some minor things that dosent make him scum so overall I'm a little suspicious but i believe he is town.
ATH. I think this speaks for itself.
I agree. We need to get rid of scum, so we need to lynch ATH.
TheDarkStar: I want to see your reads on everybody.
EBWOP: Definitely interesting results there. Going through it backwards means you kinda messed a lot of things up.
Explanation:
ATH changed his read due to rolefishing, which Hector hadn't done any between the time of his last read. So I voted for him. ATH told me that he was rereading the past pages.
Then Hector apparently didn't see that or ignored it, since he voted for ATH. Clearly an OMGUS since it was in direct response to ATH's read change. Scummy, no?
BHK:My read on hector is simple. After his play, if he doesn't get lynched, he'll turn up dead by day 2 as policy.TheDarkStar - Ded.
Tawarochir - I haven't formed a read on Tawarochir.
Abstracttraitorhero - Either a new townie or a maf that is extremely good at lying.
hector13 - As of Today at 08:43:28 pm he ceased to be a relevant target to observe. If we don't lynch him today I assure you barring anything unexpected that he'll turn up dead by day 2.
TheMoonlitShadow - He plays like a townie and acts like one. He isn't as high priority as others.
O.Wilde - I could see him turning up scum, the way he plays gives me that feeling. It's nothing to move on right now, though.
notquitethere - More experienced than me, certainly. I could see him as anything, really.
Can you explain your read on hector? What is your read on me?
BHK: Still think TDS's scum? And I'd also like to know why you think Hector'll be dead. You scum?I don't think TDS is scum. I have my vote on him for a different reason.
My read on hector is simple. After his play, if he doesn't get lynched, he'll turn up dead by day 2 as policy.Do you think scum most often kill the poorest performing player? Or do you think there's a town vig? Run me through your thought process here.
If I were scum, why would I call my kills?To make people protect the wrong person at night.
My read on hector is simple. After his play, if he doesn't get lynched, he'll turn up dead by day 2 as policy.
You're a null read due to inactivity.
BHK: Still think TDS's scum? And I'd also like to know why you think Hector'll be dead. You scum?I don't think TDS is scum. I have my vote on him for a different reason.
Hector should be lynched today. If he isn't, he will die on night 1 if the Town PRs play right.
If I were scum, why would I call my kills?
BHK1- Scum wouldn't kill the poorest performing player. If nobody has a case, Hector, if he isn't scum, will be lynched. Scum would want him alive. If he is scum, that's different, but they do want him alive in the end. I'm certain that there's a vig.My read on hector is simple. After his play, if he doesn't get lynched, he'll turn up dead by day 2 as policy.Do you think scum most often kill the poorest performing player? Or do you think there's a town vig? Run me through your thought process here.If I were scum, why would I call my kills?To make people protect the wrong person at night.
1- He'll get policy killed because scum can use him. Just deny him as a tool.My read on hector is simple. After his play, if he doesn't get lynched, he'll turn up dead by day 2 as policy.
You're a null read due to inactivity.
Why do you think he'll get policy-killed?BHK: Still think TDS's scum? And I'd also like to know why you think Hector'll be dead. You scum?I don't think TDS is scum. I have my vote on him for a different reason.
Hector should be lynched today. If he isn't, he will die on night 1 if the Town PRs play right.
If I were scum, why would I call my kills?
Why do you think town PRs have kills and why are you voting for me if you don't think I'm scum and if you think hector should be lynched?
TDS: You say Moonlit's last vote is the main thing making him scummy. You're not responding to his two-post defence of that vote (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155155.msg6778952#msg6778952), which included a question in the second post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155155.msg6778960#msg6778960). You're clearly paying some attention to responses: you responded to BHK's response. Why not that of your main suspect?EpicMafia has given me some habits that are tough for me to shake off in non EM games. Voting with the mob is the exact reason why I was hesitant to vote hector, it's hard to vote someone up without taking flak for it. Setting procedures for PRs, however, isn't something I was doing. There's reasoning behind that.
BlackHeartKabal: You're a follower. You're very night-game focused, contributing little to the day game and talking mostly about night action policy and what PRs are in the game. You have more than ideas about how PRs will act at night: you have set procedures that you expect. You do little investigatory questioning. You vote with the mob. I know this playstyle.
How much do you consider your overall playstyle to be a product of your time at EpicMafia?
EpicMafia has given me some habits that are tough for me to shake off in non EM games.It takes a while. Took me some time to recover from that site.
Setting procedures for PRs, however, isn't something I was doing. There's reasoning behind that.Sorry, that was a bit of poor wording on my part. What I meant was not that you create the procedures, but that there are set procedures in place that you seemed to expect.
Certain PRs have constant, concrete things across games. It's an open setup, so i'm giving the roles some leeway.EpicMafia has given me some habits that are tough for me to shake off in non EM games.It takes a while. Took me some time to recover from that site.Setting procedures for PRs, however, isn't something I was doing. There's reasoning behind that.Sorry, that was a bit of poor wording on my part. What I meant was not that you create the procedures, but that there are set procedures in place that you seemed to expect.
fillipk: Are we to understand that we are dealing with only one main scum (mafioso, SK, whatever)?One main scum and some third parties.
BHK: How can scum 'use Hector as a tool'?We have hector sitting here being lynched, propped up, attention towards him. The scum can use him as a distraction or to buy time, depending on what happens. If he dies, it won't be a problem anymore.
Ok, you've said it's an open setup a few times now. It clearly isn't by the standard definition, since we don't know what the roles actually are, we just have some clues about what they might be. What do you mean by an open setup?Certain PRs have constant, concrete things across games. It's an open setup, so i'm giving the roles some leeway.EpicMafia has given me some habits that are tough for me to shake off in non EM games.It takes a while. Took me some time to recover from that site.Setting procedures for PRs, however, isn't something I was doing. There's reasoning behind that.Sorry, that was a bit of poor wording on my part. What I meant was not that you create the procedures, but that there are set procedures in place that you seemed to expect.
On the back of this, I'm fairly confident that TMS is who we're looking for.fillipk: Are we to understand that we are dealing with only one main scum (mafioso, SK, whatever)?One main scum and some third parties.
A disappointing number of people are not aware that I'm playing this game.Open Setup - Roles are not stated, could be any combination of roles and alignments.
BHK:Ok, you've said it's an open setup a few times now. It clearly isn't by the standard definition, since we don't know what the roles actually are, we just have some clues about what they might be. What do you mean by an open setup?Certain PRs have constant, concrete things across games. It's an open setup, so i'm giving the roles some leeway.EpicMafia has given me some habits that are tough for me to shake off in non EM games.It takes a while. Took me some time to recover from that site.Setting procedures for PRs, however, isn't something I was doing. There's reasoning behind that.Sorry, that was a bit of poor wording on my part. What I meant was not that you create the procedures, but that there are set procedures in place that you seemed to expect.
BHK: So you're saying that Hector is a nuisance, so lynching him is beneficial either way? If he's scum, obviously good; if he's not, you're proposing that he'll no longer bother us.That's what I'm proposing, but Hector is a special case because his play could end up harming the town. So he has to go by policy - for the good of the town, scum or not. Do you have a better idea on who to lynch?
Open Setup - Roles are not stated, could be any combination of roles and alignments.Huh, I can see why you'd define it that way round but we normally use the open/close dichotomy to mean the exact opposite:
Closed Setup - Roles and alignments clearly stated (ex. 5 Vanilla, 1 Cop, 1 Doctor, 3 mafia )
TMS: I'm voting you for the exact same reason as before, but now we have mod confirmation that there's a one-man scum team. You referred to the scum as one person before there was any indication that this was the case, so yeah.I really don't think we have had such a solid confirmation. Fillipk may have been using the word 'scum' as a collective noun (as in 'one main scum faction'):
fillipk: Are we to understand that we are dealing with only one main scum (mafioso, SK, whatever)?One main scum and some third parties.
BHK: You said that Hector would die tonight if he wasn't lynched. But we don't know if there's a Vigilante, so... That you?This is something I will neither confirm nor deny.
Oh. Thank you. I'll have to get used to that, then.Open Setup - Roles are not stated, could be any combination of roles and alignments.Huh, I can see why you'd define it that way round but we normally use the open/close dichotomy to mean the exact opposite:
Closed Setup - Roles and alignments clearly stated (ex. 5 Vanilla, 1 Cop, 1 Doctor, 3 mafia )
Open Setup (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Open_Setup) - Information on roles is open to the players.
Closed Setup (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Closed_Setup)- Information on roles is closed to the players.
TDS: You say Moonlit's last vote is the main thing making him scummy. You're not responding to his two-post defence of that vote (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155155.msg6778952#msg6778952), which included a question in the second post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155155.msg6778960#msg6778960). You're clearly paying some attention to responses: you responded to BHK's response. Why not that of your main suspect?TheDarkStar: Answer.
TDS: Hector OMGUS'd. Read the thing. He instantly voted for ATH the moment ATH changed his opinion.
EBWOP: Definitely interesting results there. Going through it backwards means you kinda messed a lot of things up.
Explanation:
ATH changed his read due to rolefishing, which Hector hadn't done any between the time of his last read. So I voted for him. ATH told me that he was rereading the past pages.
Then Hector apparently didn't see that or ignored it, since he voted for ATH. Clearly an OMGUS since it was in direct response to ATH's read change. Scummy, no?
Okay Hector13 you are blatantly bamdwagoning and just trying to kill me without giving a reason i had spme hope you weren't scum but I'm sure now becuase that was Scummy as hellOut?
Unvote and vote Hector13
Bleh filipk. Do we know the number of mafia players? Or are we not supposed to know that.Yes you do, 0
TDS: Will get to you in about an hour.
Deus, does a slip make sense in the absence of a mafia team of one?Considering that we have confirmation that there was only one killer and one main scum player, yes. It makes perfect sense. How often have you seen scum making cases based on scumslips?
No, there are multiple third parties, but yes the main scum is an sk.
Filipk: So there's only an SK?
BHK, are you the liontamer? If so, did you stay at home last night? If you answer me I'll tell you why I want to know.I am the liontamer. Why?
I am pretty sure everyone has a role which has some kind of effect.I took no action during the night.
BHK, did you leave your trailer last night? Like I said, answer this and I'll tell you why. It's very important.
I don't think everyone has an ability.Why not?
I'd like to ask those who said Jack A T was a good town player (NQT, TDS, and... that's about it. Did BHK?) whether or not they think that everyone has a night role.
I find it ironic you think my performer would have a roll and it would have been usefull but nope he's a fraud completely and utterly.I fail to see any irony, or, funnily enough, your point.
Perhaps he's a role where he needs to hang a specific person to win?OMGUS much?
Unvote for now.It was merely a suggestion and i was merely thinking of a possible reason why you would make that vote if your a third party.
NQT: You still didn't say what your important thing is. Changing your mind, are you? You got someone to claim, and now ur backing out of your 'important info'.
I'm not answering until you do.
You're right, my vote was stupid. It'd have been more useful on day 1.
ATH: Then why didn't I try to kill you the first day? I almost could've, almost. Actually, hector would've unvoted you, so... no, I couldn't have.
Not really it's just a possibilty it would be an OMGUS if i just said that and voted him so yeah it was merly something i was considering that he could possibly be.Oh, please.
Wincon:When all anti town factions are eliminated.Ignore this phone wigged out and posted this twice.
How about a mass wincon claim?
How about a mass wincon claim?I'm town. Anti-town factions need to be destroyed.
So you think that BHK could be the PGO.Seems unlikely there'd be a PGO in a game with only one scum member, unless they have multiple lives. But yes, that was something I'd considered.
My wincon is Survivor.That's believable. We know there are a few 3rd parties: there's already one Jester down. If no one else claims 3rd party, you've got a solid claim here.
Yay! I got an actual claim out of him! The last one could've easily been sidestepped with 'I have a role, but I don't think everyone has a role.'This is so so bizarre. He claimed vanilla town, so you want to kill him?
...Now what? Do we kill him or something?
He's implying that you're Anti-Town, right after you voted him. Maybe it's not a voting OMGUS, but it's an OMGUS nonetheless.Do you think that TMS's reason for voting for ATH was reasonable in any way whatsoever? If not, is ATH supposed to avoid being suspicious of him just because TMS voted for him first?
Deus Asmoth, you're immune to Jack's watcher ability, right?Wrong. Since you've been suspicious of me for a while now, why did you decide to vote for TMS with me rather than doing anything to support your own case on me?
TMSI think they're reasonable, if poorly planned. I think his reasoning is suspicion of having only a single VT in the game. I share that suspicion. VT makes a good claim for the mafia since they don't have to demonstrate, or fabricate, any type of power to go along with their role.Yay! I got an actual claim out of him! The last one could've easily been sidestepped with 'I have a role, but I don't think everyone has a role.'This is so so bizarre. He claimed vanilla town, so you want to kill him?
...Now what? Do we kill him or something?
Oscar:He's implying that you're Anti-Town, right after you voted him. Maybe it's not a voting OMGUS, but it's an OMGUS nonetheless.Do you think that TMS's reason for voting for ATH was reasonable in any way whatsoever? If not, is ATH supposed to avoid being suspicious of him just because TMS voted for him first?
Fillipk, are roles tied to alignments or are they a seperate concept?From my understanding of the question, yes the roles alignment specific, but could you elaborate
Well, that's a whole lot of conjecture based off literally nothing. Why is having a mafia-ally impossible?Everyone else: NQT is scum. Changing his vote at the end of the day, not presenting any actual evidence for his casesand notably his claim that his role is essentially useless in actually finding scum are just strange. I'm guessing that TMS is allied with him in some way from the interaction between them.
There's no duo roles left. It's unlikely for more than one partner role, and the hector, who had one, already died. There's no way he's my ally.
TMSYay! I got an actual claim out of him! The last one could've easily been sidestepped with 'I have a role, but I don't think everyone has a role.'This is so so bizarre. He claimed vanilla town, so you want to kill him?
...Now what? Do we kill him or something?
fillipk, do both of the trapeze duo have exactly the same role?Yes
Do both of the clowns have the exact same role?fillipk, do both of the trapeze duo have exactly the same role?Yes
TheDarkStar:
Deus Asmoth:
Abstracttraitorhero:
TheMoonlitShadow: (Survivor)
O.Wilde: Tightrope Walker (Elim. Anti-Town)
notquitethere: Trapeze Artist (Elim. Anti-Town)
BlackHeartKabal:
So, based on that, I think our other clown is the mafia. I don't think it's likely Fillipk would put two Jesters in the game. I think it is time for a massclaim, any discrepancies we have are gonna be the clown attempting to cover his ass. So here we go.I'm pretty sure I claimed that I was the lion tamer, with the objective to eliminate anti town.Quote from: Massclaim ListTheDarkStar:
Deus Asmoth:
Abstracttraitorhero:
TheMoonlitShadow: (Survivor)
O.Wilde: Tightrope Walker (Elim. Anti-Town)
notquitethere: Trapeze Artist (Elim. Anti-Town)
BlackHeartKabal:
TheDarkStar:
Deus Asmoth:
Abstracttraitorhero:
TheMoonlitShadow: (Survivor)
O.Wilde: Tightrope Walker (Elim. Anti-Town)
notquitethere: Trapeze Artist (Elim. Anti-Town)
BlackHeartKabal: Lion Tamer (Elim. Anti-Town)
What's your role name?It just says town i don't have an abilty or anything special beyond flavor text but if your talking the performers I'm the Strongman he's a complete fake.
TheDarkStar:
Deus Asmoth:
Abstracttraitorhero: Strongman (Elim. Anti-Town)
TheMoonlitShadow: (Survivor)
O.Wilde: Tightrope Walker (Elim. Anti-Town)
notquitethere: Trapeze Artist (Elim. Anti-Town)
BlackHeartKabal: Lion Tamer (Elim. Anti-Town)
I'm the dwarf magician. I don't have any abilities.What's your wincon?
TheDarkStar:
Deus Asmoth: Dwarf Magician ()
Abstracttraitorhero: Strongman (Elim. Anti-Town)
TheMoonlitShadow: (Survivor)
O.Wilde: Tightrope Walker (Elim. Anti-Town)
notquitethere: Trapeze Artist (Elim. Anti-Town)
BlackHeartKabal: Lion Tamer (Elim. Anti-Town)
TheDarkStar:
Deus Asmoth: Dwarf Magician (Elim. Anti-Town)
Abstracttraitorhero: Strongman (Elim. Anti-Town)
TheMoonlitShadow: (Survivor)
O.Wilde: Tightrope Walker (Elim. Anti-Town)
notquitethere: Trapeze Artist (Elim. Anti-Town)
BlackHeartKabal: Lion Tamer (Elim. Anti-Town)
TheDarkStar: Mysterious Hypnotist
Deus Asmoth: Dwarf Magician
Abstracttraitorhero: Strongman
TheMoonlitShadow: The other friggin clown.
O.Wilde: Tightrope Walker
notquitethere: Trapeze Artist (Confirmed Town)
BlackHeartKabal: Lion Tamer
O. Wilde: I have an ability that investigates someone's role only if they do not use a night action. I suspected everyone had a night action, so I did not use my ability last night because I thought it would do nothing and only incriminate myself if the watcher saw me.This seems like a pretty bogus reason to do nothing. You didn't even know there was a watcher on N1.
O. Wilde: I have an ability that investigates someone's role only if they do not use a night action. I suspected everyone had a night action, so I did not use my ability last night because I thought it would do nothing and only incriminate myself if the watcher saw me.This seems like a pretty bogus reason to do nothing. You didn't even know there was a watcher on N1.
Ugh, two jesters? Well both watchers were identical, so it wouldn't surprise me if we had two jester clowns.
fillipk, do we know what actually killed the human cannon ball and Jack?They were killed in their trailer, cause of death is pointy things.
fillipk, do we know what actually killed the human cannon ball and Jack?
I want to theorycraft for a second. I'm fairly sure that TMS is full of shit right now, but he's also unlikely to be scum unless hector's role was designed specifically to throw us off the scent if he got lynched (the part about dying the day after Bingo- there wouldn't be another day if Bingo were scum unless there's another anti town player). So, of the people that are left who can get past a trapeze artist?
-A magician? Yeah, this would seem most likely to me in a vacuum as well, but I know I didn't do it.
-A hypnotist? Actually getting past NQT seems unlikely, but hypnotizing players during the day and making them kill themselves seems possible.
-A strongman? Unlikely.
-A tightrope walker? If the tightrope is higher than the trapeze I guess?
-A lion tamer? Could have sent a lion to kill Jack I guess.
At the minute TDS seems the most likely to me.
Remember that as an SK any of them could've just ditched their stuff and grabbed a knife, though. Hanging someone whose resisting isn't exactly untrackable, so...
..."Its the killer out there, he's on my nerves messing with my ability to speak coherently, find him."
'Day ends on Friday Monday 8th 8:00pm PST'
BHK - You aren't voting right now, why not?I thought I was voting TDS, wasn't I?
Well looks like Fillipk overlooked it as well, which means you're probably lying. So give us a quote from earlier or... bandwagoning much? Same with what you did the last day...
Because BHK obviously isn't scum. After all, he told was the first to claim a role before knowing that roles came with set alignments, and he even claimed a role that could easily be the SK.
Because BHK obviously isn't scum. After all, he told was the first to claim a role before knowing that roles came with set alignments, and he even claimed a role that could easily be the SK....this doesn't make any sense. How would the lion tamer easily be the untrackable SK? Why would he claim a different role than his own when someone counterclaiming him would just most likely wind up with him dead? How does the roles having set alignments make any difference when we don't know what the set alignment for any role besides NQT's is?
I had no problem claiming that I was the lion tamer. I was the first to claim it because that's what I am and I was asked.Well looks like Fillipk overlooked it as well, which means you're probably lying. So give us a quote from earlier or... bandwagoning much? Same with what you did the last day...
So why aren't you voting for BHK if you think he's lying?
BHK: Explain?
Whoops, TheDarkStarI had no problem claiming that I was the lion tamer. I was the first to claim it because that's what I am and I was asked.Well looks like Fillipk overlooked it as well, which means you're probably lying. So give us a quote from earlier or... bandwagoning much? Same with what you did the last day...
So why aren't you voting for BHK if you think he's lying?
BHK: Explain?
Now, the untrackable SK thing. Untrackable SK wouldn't be in such a small setup, that's stupid. I'm pretty certain a large cat killing people under orders would be easily trackable and give very unique flavor (ex. this guy was mauled by a lion ).
And now you're voting me. So many other suspects that make far more sense, and you vote me. Might as well vote NQT. You're backed into a corner, aren't you, TheDarkStar? I'm playing scenarios through my head and I can't see why a townie would make such a move, unless you're honestly convinced I'm an SK.
Are you convinced i'm an SK, truly?
Well, i'm convinced that you're scum. It makes sense. A "mysterious hypnotist", that makes you do what you want. In flavor, that sounds like someone who's out for themselves, separate from the others.
The Dark Star's play, and his role? Three theories.
1. He is the Town Roleblocker, and has messed up badly.
2. He is a scum role that can manipulate or redirect the actions of others.
3. He is the Serial Killer.
It makes a lot of sense for the SK to appear... eager to hunt the SK. So I'm going to go with the third theory.
BHK obviously isn't scum.?
BandwagoningIf voting for a suspect is bandwagoning just because their actions have already gotten them votes, then yeah, I'm bandwagoning. Cool.
Oh god this is bad soI'm conf-town you muppet.
Mafia suspicion list everyone this is mine highest to lowest.
NQT or O.Wilde
TheDarkStar
Themoonlitshadow
Me
1. He is the Town Roleblocker, and has messed up badly.
I watched Deus last night. Moonlit visited him. Bye, scum.You're claiming to have a watcher ability: paraphrasing, what's the flavor for your ability? Who did you watch N1 and why?
EBWOP RE: The one person who asked my about my night action.
I do have a night action, however I neglected to use it last night due to idiocy on my part, so I have no results so far.
He said it at the update.I see that now.
Yeah people looked confused so I thought I'd restate it.He said it at the update.I see that now.
You're a gem.Yeah people looked confused so I thought I'd restate it.He said it at the update.I see that now.
O. Wilde: I have an ability that investigates someone's role only if they do not use a night action. I suspected everyone had a night action, so I did not use my ability last night because I thought it would do nothing and only incriminate myself if the watcher saw me.This is ringing my bullshitometer.
About Mod note: It was Lylo the last day. Stupid Roleblocker/SK.No it wasn't, Day 2 was not LYLO
TheDarkStar, what's the flavour (paraphrased) for your blocking power and who did you block last night?
Mafia suspicion list everyone this is mine highest to lowest.
NQT or O.Wilde
TheDarkStar
Themoonlitshadow
Me
One thing I find a bit suspect about Wilde's claim is that they say they were on the wire: big top wires don't overlook trailer parks, they're inside the big top. I'm a watcher because my art has given me great flexibility for squeezing into hiding places.I was assuming they were like the wires that carnivals sometimes have that have lights on them or something. Dunno.
I was not given SK as a role at the beginning of the game.But you have it now?
Alot of the role sht was made up. I had a plan that didn't work, unfortunately.Elaborate.
I have reason to suspect that the SK attempted to kill me.....when? We've had a successful kill every night.
The role shenanigans did work, however. Remember my Survivor claim?What did it accomplish?
Stuff about the night actions was partly true. My night role is the ability to protect the other clown from dying only if he does not make a night action. Thus all the 'safer to stay inside' stuff from me on D1.Already asked something about this.
About Mod note: It was Lylo the last day. Stupid Roleblocker/SK.How so?
My ability did not fit with the clown theme. See Hector. His didn't. Mine is identical.As TDS pointed out, it is clearly not.
Something different happens when Hector dies. I don't kill myself, and I start as Survivor instead of Jester.Why don't you tell us what that something is, oh bullshitter?
I blocked O. Wilde.Nope.
NQT: Are you a VT? I saw that you got mod-confirmed as town but I didn't find your role claim.I can watch trailers at night. Also, we already had a conversation where you claimed blocking me, hence why apparently I couldn't see the SK kill Jack (who I watched N1). Next time, try and keep the facts in mind.
Okay then you TDS explain yourself now.
I'm not the sk it's definitely either You or o.wilde or NQT if he's the most lucky scum in the world but I find that extremely unlikely but me not having a list of night actions only further proves im VT.
It doesn't because I can't prove anything I don't have the abilty to do that and the only real proof I can give you is paraphrased flavor text for my role.
I watched ATH. No movement.No movement from ATH?
I'm sorry, I think I messed up.That's a bit bloody convenient. (Kicking myself now, should have asked you for your night flavour and caught you in the lie if you were lying. Next time.)
As it turns out, I forgot to send in an action last night. I saw a PM in my PM box and I thought it was a confirmation of my action, but it was unrelated. So I didn't act last night.
Anyway, this makes one of ATH and O. Wilde scum. O. Wilde has a roleclaim and a set of night actions he's done, so ATH is probably the SK.Hmm. If the SK isn't watcher-immune then you must be the blocker. The one SK we did kill wasn't watcher-immune so this lends credence to your claim. And as such, ATH must be scum.
NQT: What have the results of your other night actions been?N1 Jack: No visit. N2 TDS: No visit. N3 O.Wilde: No visit.
Clarification: ATH did not visit anyone.
I watched Deus last night. Moonlit visited him. Bye, scum.
I walked the wires, two and a half floors above the ground. I was super happy to see moonlit walking around, and he eventually went into Deus' trailer. He emerged, went home, and I did too. I watched nobody n1 because I got my games mixed up. See this post yesterday which I will quote in a sec. I'm on a phone rn
- A mysterious hypnotist that can make you do whatever he wants
Oi >:(right sorry
Jester victory in the title, please :P
Oi >:(right sorry
Jester victory in the title, please :P
Was i the only vanilla town?no, there were 4 vanilla townies total
Interesting game. I was watching for most of its life.I did, however.
I didn't call the hypnomurdertist- that was a bit of a surprise.
Gotta smile at Jack and me watching over each other: trapeze artists have each other's backs.NQT: I'd guessed one of us would die N1: active content-giving veterans are basically scumkill magnets.
So how scummy did i look through out this game?ATH: Null early on, back when I was alive. Townier and townier as the game went on.
You obviously weren't scum: you were talking too much too uncautiously.hector13: This. Especially in a single-scum game, I would expect the scum to play with some care. You came off as careless, aimless, unfocused, and twitchy, but not SKish.
Then everyone decided to vote me with some of the flimsiest reasons I've ever seen, and lynched a VT. If not for everyone putting me up that day because "BHK is scum", TDS would have died earlier.How do you not get called out for bandwagoning when you're just voting someone you think is scum? Many of the points might be from the person whose already voting that. I've seen someone say that the bandwagoner 'just restated' what had already been said.Interesting game. I was watching for most of its life.I did, however.
I didn't call the hypnomurdertist- that was a bit of a surprise.
Was worried I'd be called out for bandwagoning if I voted, and I was.
I didn't expect people to lynch you - I was pretending to be a jester and be annoying. I said 'BHK is scum'. Basically Roo stuff. And you know how he always gets lynched.. :D But I'm a nub and usually play with nubs so that's prob why.Roo... well, an excellent jester, abhorrent play otherwise.