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Dwarf Fortress => DF Modding => Mod Releases => Topic started by: brolol.404 on July 19, 2019, 07:25:18 pm

Title: [47.04] Goblin Fortress v2.2
Post by: brolol.404 on July 19, 2019, 07:25:18 pm
Download [47.04] Goblin Fortress v2.2 (http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=14465)

(https://animesuperhero.com/news/images/2008-10/SleepingBeauty/Restore/GoblinCampfireOld.jpg)

The goblin hordes are ready for war!

This mod adds a comprehensive playable goblin race without changing any vanilla files.

Goblins are now a tribal race. Every goblin civilization is made up of tribes ruled by Goblin Chieftains. Their warriors are led by War Chiefs and their medical and spiritual needs are met by Shamans. Tribes are ruthless and aggressive and fight among themselves as often as they fight the other civilizations. Occasionally a Goblin King will unite a few goblin tribes but civil wars remain rampant.

The goblins have all of the features that dwarves have, but are supposed to feel like a completely different experience. They are meant to be played as violent, greedy, war driven and vile creatures. A consistent meat source is required for food and a bone supply is desired for their labors.

Current Features:
> Goblins: Carnivores, Large Litters, Short Child Duration, War Driven
> Pets: Cave Rats, Beak Dogs, Worgs (Milkable and Shearable), Giant Cave Spiders, Giant Cave Bats, Cave Crocodiles, Trolls, Ogres, Dwarf Slaves, Human Slaves, Elf Slaves, Goblin Slaves
> Nobility: King, Tribal Chieftains, War Chiefs, Shamans
• Goblin King: Goblin Kings are demanding, greedy and ruthless rulers that rule under a demon overlord.
• Tribal Chieftain: Tribal Chieftains rule over goblin tribes. They are responsible for all management, bookkeeping and broker jobs. They are also responsible for law making and keeping order in a fortress. A Goblin King will replace a Tribal Chieftain.
• Shaman: Shamans are spiritual and medical healers. They counsel upset goblins and heal the wounded.
• War Chief: War Chiefs are military commanders that also give out punishments to citizens.
> Diseases: Cave Blight, Cave Lice, Cave Mites, Prions Disease
> Meat Alcohol
> Stone Anvils
> Bone Building Materials
> Bone Furniture
> Bone Weapons and Armor
> Patrolling hostile goblin armies during gameplay
> Constant conflict and war (including civil wars between tribes)

Starter Guide:
This is a generic step by step list to get you started with this mod. It is only a suggested starter guide.
1. Set the world starting age to at least year 125.
2. Take the following at embark (included in embark profile):
3. Turn gather refuse (and vermin remains) from outside on.
4. Assign a tribal chieftain and then (close/open nobility screen) assign a shaman and war chief.
* Consider giving nicknames to these goblins for easy future reference.
5. Butcher 10 cave rats.
6. Build a bedroom, office and tomb for the tribal chieftain.
* Bone Furniture is much more valuable to goblins than wood or stone.
* Bone Building Materials and Furniture can be created at the Bonecarver's Workshop.
7. Build a bedroom and tomb for the shaman and war chief
8. Raid! Pillage! Attack! (anyone and everyone)
* Stone anvils can be created at the Mason's Workshop.
* Bone Weapons and Armor can be created at the Bonecarver's Workshop.
* Meat Alcohol can be created at the Corpse Still.

I highly recommend downloading [47.04] Fishing Expanded (https://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=14533) and [47.04] Vermin Birds (https://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=14444) with this mod. These mods remove wild animals from the wild animal cap that are inaccessible (i.e. swimming and flying) so that bones are easier to obtain.

Spoiler: Changelog v2.0 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Changelog v2.1 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Changelog v2.2 (click to show/hide)

POLL DETAILS
What would you like to see expanded upon in this mod:
> Diseases: Turn the goblin pits into disgusting and festering pits of disease and filth by adding at least a dozen more common diseases that spread quickly among the population. These would include: plagues, blights, infections and small creatures like fleas as well as filth and grime.
> Poisons: Turn the goblin pits into a place of espionage and assassination by creating a dozen or so poisons that can be conveniently dumped into the rooms of the intended target or brought into a tavern to infect an entire group of visitors/citizens.
> Drugs: Turn the goblin pits into a place of hardship and chaos as commoners fiend for their next fix, laborers work non-stop in drug induced trances and warriors fight in narcotic frenzies.
> Demonic Blessings & Curses: Turn the goblin pits into a place of demonic worship. Fanatics build altars, shrines and monuments for abyssal gifts from their demonic lords.
> Other (comment suggestion)
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v1.0
Post by: brolol.404 on July 20, 2019, 08:07:55 am
[reserved]
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v1.0
Post by: brolol.404 on July 20, 2019, 08:08:24 am
[reserved]
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v1.0
Post by: FantasticDorf on August 24, 2019, 05:24:13 am
Neat, i have some interesting input if you want it. I don't personally add much extension to it but you can run a vanilla fortress very tightly with the goblin civ if you use DFhack to help get a grip over your trolls, which are best seperated between one caste being unintelligent farm animals and another being semi-intelligent for civilian and military function, split between 4/more or between genders (whichever is easier).

Trolls decended from the original embarkment troll(s) carry across their historical significance as do the children of pet trolls, you might want to nerf them slightly with a size and lifespan reduction if you make them more varied. ((you can import them very easily by using [ANIMAL] and putting a group onto their file and [ALWAYS_PRESENT] over them, which allows exotics to be imported also))

Using custom positions for goblins is quite fun, with enough progress you can call the [MONARCH] demon leader because of prefixed tags on the invisible role you can overwrite in a identical fashion to the hard-coded dwarven monarch. Where you're going beyond with chemicals, sets of creatures and shines i think is good though.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v1.0
Post by: brolol.404 on September 14, 2019, 06:05:52 am
Neat, i have some interesting input if you want it. I don't personally add much extension to it but you can run a vanilla fortress very tightly with the goblin civ if you use DFhack to help get a grip over your trolls, which are best seperated between one caste being unintelligent farm animals and another being semi-intelligent for civilian and military function, split between 4/more or between genders (whichever is easier).

Trolls decended from the original embarkment troll(s) carry across their historical significance as do the children of pet trolls, you might want to nerf them slightly with a size and lifespan reduction if you make them more varied. ((you can import them very easily by using [ANIMAL] and putting a group onto their file and [ALWAYS_PRESENT] over them, which allows exotics to be imported also))

Using custom positions for goblins is quite fun, with enough progress you can call the [MONARCH] demon leader because of prefixed tags on the invisible role you can overwrite in a identical fashion to the hard-coded dwarven monarch. Where you're going beyond with chemicals, sets of creatures and shines i think is good though.

Thanks for the feedback :)

I have been really debating on which direction to take this mod, but have been preoccupied with my fishing mod. The original intent was to make a similiar to vanilla goblin experience without messing with any vanilla raws or using dfhack.

The trolls (and other pets) are currently incorporated using the [ANIMAL] tag. Instead of nerfing them, I just made them more expensive. They probably could still use tweaking in their abilities or embark cost if you have feedback there though. They are currently all intelligent but I could make an unintelligent caste.

I didn't realize that you could summon the ruling demon. That is pretty cool. thanks.

I am still debating on the direction of this mod, but I am considering removing the magic and armored creatures (both a bit unreliable) and possibly adding more to the demon worship/shrines and expanding on their disgusting features (like diseases) to really make them disgusting/vile demon worshippers.

EDIT: I am considering a simple playable vanilla human mod as well similiar to this one.
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v1.0
Post by: Meph on September 14, 2019, 06:27:59 am
There might be some overlap with my playable-race mods, if there are sections or ideas you like, feel free to grab them. ;)
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v1.0
Post by: FantasticDorf on September 14, 2019, 07:18:54 am
There might be some overlap with my playable-race mods, if there are sections or ideas you like, feel free to grab them. ;)

I quite like your slaves on the warlock mod, could we produce a troll slave identical in most ways (maybe a bit smaller and unintelligent) then transform it into a sentient troll that way via dfhack recruitment for this or a similar mod? It wouldnt interrupt anything i wouldn't think and neatly get around trolls being tricky in fortress mode (as well as easy shearing/butchery collection)

It may be a way to allow goblins to get most of their iconic monsterous minion races too, ogres etc.
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v1.0
Post by: brolol.404 on September 14, 2019, 07:47:54 am
There might be some overlap with my playable-race mods, if there are sections or ideas you like, feel free to grab them. ;)

Thanks :)

I am trying to keep these mods simple and as close to vanilla as possible while including all features of vanilla, but also still feeling like a new experience. If you have any ideas/feedback I would love to hear them.

So, these are my proposed changes to this mod:

> remove all magic (it is unreliable and clunky). It also seems a little more scholarly wizard magic than what the intention of this race was (disgusting/vile/greedy tribe like goblins)
> remove armor and barding from creatures (also a bit clunky and doesnt really add enough to the gameplay to justify its inclusion)
> remove tangible "gifts" from offerings (summons/items) at altars
> remove goblin patrols from the underground

> add a lot more diseases that spread quickly and often
> raise stress vulnerability to make goblins in constant anger/turmoil
> modify personality traits more where able to make goblins even more vile
> add poisons
> add drugs to boost mood (but also provide the negative aspects)
> add demonic offerings at altars that boost mood (bust potentially cause bad thoughts/effects)
> add a small chance prone to rage to goblins to make one go occasionally beserk
> give meat alcohol a small chance of nausea
> add some kind of filth that is spread by cave rats and goblins that makes the fort constantly dirty and gross

I think these changes will put the race into a constant state of chaos. Which could be considered a hard mode or even just ¡fun! but I really think it would better capture the vision if these evil and vile creatures.

Let me know your thoughts/opinions on these changes
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v1.0
Post by: brolol.404 on September 14, 2019, 08:33:13 am
@Meph I do really like your Stonehenge like structure idea from your warlock mod. I may add a 10x10 monument workshop to this mod that takes 50 boulders to make lol
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v1.0
Post by: Meph on September 14, 2019, 11:18:49 am
Original df goblins don't eat or drink, live forever, don't use poisons or magic. There really isn't that much to go on.

Obviously they like fortresses/towers, which must be dark. Iron armors and weapons, and whips. Trolls, beakdogs and ogres.

Everything else would be speculation. I guess giving high demands and mandates, would be interesting, so that a lot  of goblins get arrested or punished.

Some way to summon demons, or at least a demon.

Damn, now I want to do a goblin mode ^^
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v1.0
Post by: brolol.404 on September 14, 2019, 11:59:55 am
Original df goblins don't eat or drink, live forever, don't use poisons or magic. There really isn't that much to go on.
Yeah. Currently these goblins are carnivores and require drink. They are not alcohol dependent but I did give them a fermented corpse alcohol. They also currently have magic but I'm thinking of removing it as I dont think it helps the main theme. I am going to add poisons though.

Obviously they like fortresses/towers, which must be dark. Iron armors and weapons, and whips. Trolls, beakdogs and ogres.

They currently have the following animals: Cave Rats, Beak Dogs, Worgs, Giant Cave Spiders, Giant Cave Bats, Cave Crocodiles, Trolls and Ogres. As well as Dwarf Slaves, Human Slaves, Elf Slaves and Goblin Slaves.

Everything else would be speculation. I guess giving high demands and mandates, would be interesting, so that a lot  of goblins get arrested or punished.

Currently only the king has high demands (impossible to fill demands), but I can definitely increase the other nobility demands and mandates.

Some way to summon demons, or at least a demon.
I have been thinking of the best way to incorporate this. I do kind of like the vanilla goblins that only have one demon overlord. I dont know if adding more demons would make the race more demonic warlock like and go away from the original feel of goblins.

EDIT: I am thinking of tying demons in with offerings to altars. Currently you can give corpses to an altar for demonic gifts
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v1.0
Post by: Meph on September 14, 2019, 12:38:54 pm
I had a unique overlord in older MasterworkDF versions. It's quite simple to make:
 - Step1: Reaction to transform a unit into your demon overlord.
 - Step2: The syndrome that transformes him requires him to not have a certain tag.
 - Step3: Demon overlord has a free interaction that adds that tag to every one of your civ members.

Done. Even if you run the reaction again, no other worker will transform, because they have that tag. For example with IT_IMMUNE_CLASS, IT_FORBIDDEN or IT_CANNOT_HAVE_SYNDROME_CLASS.
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v1.0
Post by: Meph on September 14, 2019, 01:09:02 pm
Had a look at your raws.

"Ferment corpse" needs [PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150].

It, and other reactions, seem to requires INORGANIC (?) corpses. [REAGENT:A:5:CORPSE:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:NONE] Just be definition, corpses are organic, and are usually either counted as muscle or bone material. Depends what the creature had more of. I assume it somehow still works (otherwise you wouldn'T have release it), but in theory it really shouldn't.

"create necrotic poison" also lacks the 150 product dimension.

Did you get the armored animals thing from an Armorman from another mod? ^^

I would advice never to use [SKILL:MINING], hunting/ambusher, fishing, beekeeping or woodcutting in a reaction. Dwarves have a hard time ignoring designations when they have to pick between workshop and running around the map to get to designated mining areas/trees to be cut down, etc. To make sure that the reaction is done; players would have to remove all active mining designations for example. It's also a reaction that added to the vanilla DF masons shop, which exclusively uses MASONRY, which might confuse players, because their mason isn't making that stone anvil he wanted. At the very least, add a [DESCRIPTION:Skill - Mining] to it to help the player. Not sure if it's intentional, but people can make unlimited free clay anvils btw. ;)

You made the cave rats legendary climbers, but left their climbing giat    [APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:STANDARD_CLIMBING_GAITS:2990:2257:1525:731:4300:6100] 12 kph at the default speed. ;)

I assume the armored creatures have [NO_GENDER] to avoid giving birth?

Firejet and dragonfirebreath using castes without fire-immunity will very quickly kill themselves.

I love the goblin_hostile creature. Naturally armed and armored, with those tags?
Code: [Select]
[OPPOSED_TO_LIFE]
[LARGE_ROAMING][FREQUENCY:60]
[BIOME:ALL_MAIN]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:50:500]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:10:100]

That's some interesting encounters in EVIL regions. Btw, EVIL doesn't extend down to the caverns, so to get the underground versions to show, maybe put them in a LAYER_LINKED entity. :)

That's it. Sorry, I didn't mean to nitpick, just went through the raws once to have a look and those are the things I noticed.
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v1.0
Post by: FantasticDorf on September 14, 2019, 01:13:24 pm
Quote from: Meph
I would advice never to use [SKILL:MINING], hunting/ambusher, fishing, beekeeping or woodcutting in a reaction. Dwarves have a hard time ignoring designations when they have to pick between workshop and running around the map to get to designated mining areas/trees to be cut down, etc.

You can use burrows, which depending on the scale of the industrial action could be quite good.

Similar examples involve using burrows to shear particular flocks of animals, collect web in a safe area where cave spiders have been deposited & to remotely catch vermin in a area too (though fishing thankfully has its own interaction area and 'O'rder controls)

Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v1.0
Post by: brolol.404 on September 14, 2019, 01:38:05 pm
I had a unique overlord in older MasterworkDF versions. It's quite simple to make:
 - Step1: Reaction to transform a unit into your demon overlord.
 - Step2: The syndrome that transformes him requires him to not have a certain tag.
 - Step3: Demon overlord has a free interaction that adds that tag to every one of your civ members.

Done. Even if you run the reaction again, no other worker will transform, because they have that tag. For example with IT_IMMUNE_CLASS, IT_FORBIDDEN or IT_CANNOT_HAVE_SYNDROME_CLASS.

That's really cool. I'll add it. Is step three like a cat's clean other interaction?

Code: [Select]
[CAN_DO_INTERACTION:CLEANING]
[CDI:ADV_NAME:Clean]
[CDI:USAGE_HINT:CLEAN_SELF]
[CDI:USAGE_HINT:CLEAN_FRIEND]
[CDI:BP_REQUIRED:BY_CATEGORY:TONGUE]
[CDI:VERB:lick:licks:lick each other]
[CDI:CAN_BE_MUTUAL]
[CDI:TARGET:A:SELF_ALLOWED:TOUCHABLE]
[CDI:TARGET_RANGE:A:1]
[CDI:MAX_TARGET_NUMBER:A:1]
[CDI:WAIT_PERIOD:10]

How do you make sure it gets to every other civ member?

I'm not sure I can transform them into a procedurally generated demon without dfhack but I could make 10-15 possible demon overlord creatures to randomly pick from.
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v1.0
Post by: Meph on September 14, 2019, 01:41:35 pm
Use GREETING as usage hint; make the range 500; make the target number 500; remove line-of-sight if it's there. That will easily be enough to reach your fort members.

Try DEMON_1:DEFAULT for the transformation, although you might get an errorlog about that creature not existing, because the errorlog will be written before the world is fully done. Worst case, the guy just transforms into a toad.
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v1.0
Post by: brolol.404 on September 14, 2019, 01:54:18 pm
Use GREETING as usage hint; make the range 500; make the target number 500; remove line-of-sight if it's there. That will easily be enough to reach your fort members.

Try DEMON_1:DEFAULT for the transformation, although you might get an errorlog about that creature not existing, because the errorlog will be written before the world is fully done. Worst case, the guy just transforms into a toad.

Thanks. I tried DEMON_1:DEFAULT before as a summon for this mod and it didn't seem to do anything but I'll try it again. I could make the demon a required unit to create all other nobility positions to force the player to transform a goblin into one at the beginning.

So first build a 5x5 grand demon shrine workshop (requires boulders and corpse parts) and then summon the demon overlord with a goblin sacrifice (transformation reaction)
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v1.0
Post by: Meph on September 14, 2019, 02:06:09 pm
If he dies, you have no more nobles. ;)

Unless the syndrome class token has a timer that eventually runs out.
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v1.0
Post by: brolol.404 on September 14, 2019, 02:31:22 pm
If he dies, you have no more nobles. ;)

Unless the syndrome class token has a timer that eventually runs out.

I kind of like that mechanic lol basically protect your overlord with your life. If he dies the fort descends into chaos. He is the lifeblood of the fort and the most important part of the fortress.

I could put a really long timer on it though (like a year). So you can technically pull yourself out of ruin and start again with a new overlord assuming the fort hasn't completely collapsed lol
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v1.0
Post by: brolol.404 on September 14, 2019, 07:15:26 pm
I dont know how I missed it, but I just saw this post.

Had a look at your raws.

"Ferment corpse" needs [PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150].

It, and other reactions, seem to requires INORGANIC (?) corpses. [REAGENT:A:5:CORPSE:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:NONE] Just be definition, corpses are organic, and are usually either counted as muscle or bone material. Depends what the creature had more of. I assume it somehow still works (otherwise you wouldn'T have release it), but in theory it really shouldn't.

"create necrotic poison" also lacks the 150 product dimension.
Thanks. Ill add the product dimension tags.

I don't know why the reactions work, but they do lol

Currently, goblins pick up random body parts off the ground to use (arms, legs, etc.) Should I change it to ORGANIC?

Did you get the armored animals thing from an Armorman from another mod? ^^
Yea. I asked for help with it in the general discussion post and got the tip, so I used that as a base and edited it to what I wanted. I'm going to remove it now though. It is somewhat clunky in practice.

I would advice never to use [SKILL:MINING], hunting/ambusher, fishing, beekeeping or woodcutting in a reaction. Dwarves have a hard time ignoring designations when they have to pick between workshop and running around the map to get to designated mining areas/trees to be cut down, etc. To make sure that the reaction is done; players would have to remove all active mining designations for example. It's also a reaction that added to the vanilla DF masons shop, which exclusively uses MASONRY, which might confuse players, because their mason isn't making that stone anvil he wanted. At the very least, add a [DESCRIPTION:Skill - Mining] to it to help the player. Not sure if it's intentional, but people can make unlimited free clay anvils btw. ;)
Good tip thanks. I will change it to MASONRY. I didnt know that about clay anvils, but that is cool lol

You made the cave rats legendary climbers, but left their climbing giat    [APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:STANDARD_CLIMBING_GAITS:2990:2257:1525:731:4300:6100] 12 kph at the default speed. ;)
I figured that these were independent of each other. Should I change the gait?

I assume the armored creatures have [NO_GENDER] to avoid giving birth?
Correct. It would be odd to birth a new armored creature. These are going to be removed anyway though

Firejet and dragonfirebreath using castes without fire-immunity will very quickly kill themselves.
Yeah. I thought it was funny lol Also going to remove this caste and other magic though

I love the goblin_hostile creature. Naturally armed and armored, with those tags?
Code: [Select]
[OPPOSED_TO_LIFE]
[LARGE_ROAMING][FREQUENCY:60]
[BIOME:ALL_MAIN]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:50:500]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:10:100]

That's some interesting encounters in EVIL regions. Btw, EVIL doesn't extend down to the caverns, so to get the underground versions to show, maybe put them in a LAYER_LINKED entity. :)
Yeah. I really like watching a horde of goblins stroll across the map as an unofficial raiding party.

I am going to remove the armor variants though. (edit: also going to remove the cavern spawns)

That's it. Sorry, I didn't mean to nitpick, just went through the raws once to have a look and those are the things I noticed.
I really appreciate you looking through it and I appreciate any and all feedback! Thanks for taking the time. Let me know if you have any other feedback.
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v1.0
Post by: brolol.404 on September 14, 2019, 07:41:28 pm
Using custom positions for goblins is quite fun, with enough progress you can call the [MONARCH] demon leader because of prefixed tags on the invisible role you can overwrite in a identical fashion to the hard-coded dwarven monarch.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I realized that I don't currently have the [MONARCH] position in this mod (which I thought I did). I'm going to add it and test it out. I am debating between going this route and having the player "summon" a demon overlord from the start. This route probably makes more sense
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: brolol.404 on September 15, 2019, 08:17:37 pm
v2.0 released to remove some of the more clunky aspects of the mod.
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: brolol.404 on September 19, 2019, 08:28:17 am
I have been having a lot of fun with this mod since it's creation a few months ago but have been having a real hard time seeing it's future direction and final identity. I finally think I have figured out what to do with this mod though.

As initially intended, I plan to keep this mod simple and vanilla-esc while allowing the player to use everything available to dwarves. The other goal was to make goblins feel like a different experience so obviously some changes had to be made to vanilla like giving goblins carnivore and bone items.

So, unless someone has something that they really want to see added to this mod or has a suggestion these will be the final changes before I consider this mod complete:

> change worgs to wolves
> remove meat alcohol
> add a reaction that turns corpses into blood (as a water substitute)
> remove neurotic poison
> double rate of fighter skill
> double rust rate of fighter skill
(these two changes will make goblins level fighter faster than dwarves, but also require consistent training to keep those levels)
> increase bonecarver and butchery skill rates
> decrease carpentry and masonry skill rates

I plan to work on a similar mod for humans in the future. It will be another simple mod that allows the player to use everything available to dwarves, but it will make changes to force humans onto the surface (like making them much slower miners, but better farmers, woodcutters, carpenters, etc.) This mod will also not touch any vanilla files.
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: brolol.404 on October 19, 2019, 07:15:10 pm
I am working on an update to this mod so I decided to add a poll to this thread on what area(s) that you guys would like to see this mod expanded in.

I appreciate the feedback/suggestions.

POLL DETAILS
What would you like to see expanded upon in this mod:
> Diseases: Turn the goblin pits into disgusting and festering pits of disease and filth by adding at least a dozen more common diseases that spread quickly among the population. These would include: plagues, blights, infections and small creatures like fleas as well as filth and grime.
> Poisons: Turn the goblin pits into a place of espionage and assassination by creating a dozen or so poisons that can be conveniently dumped into the rooms of the intended target or brought into a tavern to infect an entire group of visitors/citizens.
> Drugs: Turn the goblin pits into a place of hardship and chaos as commoners fiend for their next fix, laborers work non-stop in drug induced trances and warriors fight in narcotic frenzies.
> Demonic Blessings & Curses: Turn the goblin pits into a place of demonic worship. Fanatics build altars, shrines and monuments for abyssal gifts from their demonic lords.
> Other (comment suggestion)
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: DerMeister on October 25, 2019, 04:00:08 am
I am working on an update to this mod so I decided to add a poll to this thread on what area(s) that you guys would like to see this mod expanded in.

I appreciate the feedback/suggestions.

POLL DETAILS
What would you like to see expanded upon in this mod:
> Diseases: Turn the goblin pits into disgusting and festering pits of disease and filth by adding at least a dozen more common diseases that spread quickly among the population. These would include: plagues, blights, infections and small creatures like fleas as well as filth and grime.
> Poisons: Turn the goblin pits into a place of espionage and assassination by creating a dozen or so poisons that can be conveniently dumped into the rooms of the intended target or brought into a tavern to infect an entire group of visitors/citizens.
> Drugs: Turn the goblin pits into a place of hardship and chaos as commoners fiend for their next fix, laborers work non-stop in drug induced trances and warriors fight in narcotic frenzies.
> Demonic Blessings & Curses: Turn the goblin pits into a place of demonic worship. Fanatics build altars, shrines and monuments for abyssal gifts from their demonic lords.
> Other (comment suggestion)
Avoiding of dfhack not give you new features. But using dfhack can add ability to poison weapons. And other intersting elements. Also I suggest more trolls. Servant tweaking is good, but goblins use not only trolls (in vanilla they also have ogres, blizzard men and maneras). As they shear trolls, they could milk ogresses or use ogres as mounts/pullers. Milking sapients needs dfhack script for work.

With scripts, you can add workshops for creating blizzard men and grimelings. For blizzard men creating player need cold temperature and snow/ice, for grimelings player need plants and grimeling will be made of this plant material.

Goblins as analogue of cats can have hungry head. As analogue both cat and dog goblins can have stranglers.

Harpies, blendecs and nightwings isn't slow learners, but can be heroes and you can make "domestication"/enslaving/teaching of wild harpies, blendecs and nightwings in dark fortress mode. What about milking harpies?

Demon leader probably can make underground elemantmen in workshops or as necromancer with transforming (for blood men or mud men).

Also goblins could corrupt stolen childred into night troll like species of servants.
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: brolol.404 on October 25, 2019, 09:36:19 am
Avoiding of dfhack not give you new features. But using dfhack can add ability to poison weapons. And other intersting elements. Also I suggest more trolls. Servant tweaking is good, but goblins use not only trolls (in vanilla they also have ogres, blizzard men and maneras). As they shear trolls, they could milk ogresses or use ogres as mounts/pullers. Milking sapients needs dfhack script for work.

With scripts, you can add workshops for creating blizzard men and grimelings. For blizzard men creating player need cold temperature and snow/ice, for grimelings player need plants and grimeling will be made of this plant material.

Goblins as analogue of cats can have hungry head. As analogue both cat and dog goblins can have stranglers.

Harpies, blendecs and nightwings isn't slow learners, but can be heroes and you can make "domestication"/enslaving/teaching of wild harpies, blendecs and nightwings in dark fortress mode. What about milking harpies?

Demon leader probably can make underground elemantmen in workshops or as necromancer with transforming (for blood men or mud men).

Also goblins could corrupt stolen childred into night troll like species of servants.

I actually don't use dfhack when I play (unless I am using a specific mod that requires it or some sort of special playthrough) as it slows down my game and crashes often. So, I don't plan on making my Fortress mods reliant of dfhack. I think Meph was talking about creating a goblin mod with dfhack though to add new game mechanics.

I could add poisons without dfhack though. Arrows (of any material) and a poison could be turned into "poison arrow" at a workshop. The new arrow material could have the poison syndrome attached to it. I could do the same with a few other weapons (poison dart, poison dagger, poison blade, etc.) Or I could add an ability to altars, shrines and monuments to add a chance for a weapon made out of demonic/abyssal material to spawn from an offering. This demonic material would have a necrotic/poisonous syndrome.

Currently this mod has Trolls and Ogres as pets, but I will add manera and blizzard men to the next update. I'll also add WAGON_PULLER to trolls and ogres. Although potentially accurate in the goblin culture (and probably valid), milking sapient creatures like ogres for drinkable milk is too weird/gross (for my own personal views) to add to the game.

I will also add slow learner grimelings and make them a pet and change "worg" to ice wolf to keep with vanilla. I will also remove the aquatic tag (and add the no breathe tag) from sea monsters and add them as a pet. They will be very slow/immobile on land, but can be pastured in a pit (which can then be flooded for a sea monster moat/tank).

I'll add hungry head and strangler as pets too.

I'll add harpies, foul blenders, dark gnomes and night wings to the goblin civilizations. They will show up in the pet tab though similiar to the others (e.g. trolls, ogres, etc.) and can be bought/sold/pastured and help with menial labor (building/stockpiling).

I will add mud men and blood men with slow learner as pets too to go along with the blizzard men and grimelings.

I could add a unique poison that transforms creatures that drink it into demonic creatures or some sort of abomination. It wouldn't be unique to children though. You would have to pasture the creatures you want to drink it into a room with that drink in it and then lock the door. When the "pets" get thirsty they will drink it and transform.

Thanks for the ideas :) these are good
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: Meph on October 25, 2019, 11:41:38 am
Quote
(which can then be flooded for a sea monster moat/tank)
if I remember correctly, they will instantly walk out of the flooded area once water levels go higher than 3/7. "Dangerous terrain" and all that.
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: brolol.404 on October 25, 2019, 12:11:20 pm
Quote
(which can then be flooded for a sea monster moat/tank)
if I remember correctly, they will instantly walk out of the flooded area once water levels go higher than 3/7. "Dangerous terrain" and all that.
I wonder if the pit was made two z levels deep with a bridge or locked door at one end and the sea monster was given CANNOT_CLIMB and CANNOT_JUMP they would be trapped in there as the water rose
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: Meph on October 25, 2019, 12:23:09 pm
Yes, that works. As long as they can't pathfind out of there.
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: DerMeister on October 25, 2019, 05:20:27 pm
Avoiding of dfhack not give you new features. But using dfhack can add ability to poison weapons. And other intersting elements. Also I suggest more trolls. Servant tweaking is good, but goblins use not only trolls (in vanilla they also have ogres, blizzard men and maneras). As they shear trolls, they could milk ogresses or use ogres as mounts/pullers. Milking sapients needs dfhack script for work.

With scripts, you can add workshops for creating blizzard men and grimelings. For blizzard men creating player need cold temperature and snow/ice, for grimelings player need plants and grimeling will be made of this plant material.

Goblins as analogue of cats can have hungry head. As analogue both cat and dog goblins can have stranglers.

Harpies, blendecs and nightwings isn't slow learners, but can be heroes and you can make "domestication"/enslaving/teaching of wild harpies, blendecs and nightwings in dark fortress mode. What about milking harpies?

Demon leader probably can make underground elemantmen in workshops or as necromancer with transforming (for blood men or mud men).

Also goblins could corrupt stolen childred into night troll like species of servants.

I actually don't use dfhack when I play (unless I am using a specific mod that requires it or some sort of special playthrough) as it slows down my game and crashes often. So, I don't plan on making my Fortress mods reliant of dfhack. I think Meph was talking about creating a goblin mod with dfhack though to add new game mechanics.

I could add poisons without dfhack though. Arrows (of any material) and a poison could be turned into "poison arrow" at a workshop. The new arrow material could have the poison syndrome attached to it. I could do the same with a few other weapons (poison dart, poison dagger, poison blade, etc.) Or I could add an ability to altars, shrines and monuments to add a chance for a weapon made out of demonic/abyssal material to spawn from an offering. This demonic material would have a necrotic/poisonous syndrome.

Currently this mod has Trolls and Ogres as pets, but I will add manera and blizzard men to the next update. I'll also add WAGON_PULLER to trolls and ogres. Although potentially accurate in the goblin culture (and probably valid), milking sapient creatures like ogres for drinkable milk is too weird/gross (for my own personal views) to add to the game.

I will also add slow learner grimelings and make them a pet and change "worg" to ice wolf to keep with vanilla. I will also remove the aquatic tag (and add the no breathe tag) from sea monsters and add them as a pet. They will be very slow/immobile on land, but can be pastured in a pit (which can then be flooded for a sea monster moat/tank).

I'll add hungry head and strangler as pets too.

I'll add harpies, foul blenders, dark gnomes and night wings to the goblin civilizations. They will show up in the pet tab though similiar to the others (e.g. trolls, ogres, etc.) and can be bought/sold/pastured and help with menial labor (building/stockpiling).

I will add mud men and blood men with slow learner as pets too to go along with the blizzard men and grimelings.

I could add a unique poison that transforms creatures that drink it into demonic creatures or some sort of abomination. It wouldn't be unique to children though. You would have to pasture the creatures you want to drink it into a room with that drink in it and then lock the door. When the "pets" get thirsty they will drink it and transform.

Thanks for the ideas :) these are good
Vanilla goblins eat sapient meat and wear clothes made of sapient troll yarn. So they can milk ogress. In my mod, they not milk ogresses, rodent women and harpies only because bug. Before one dfhack modder will make for me special plugin, I add milk to giant rats and rutherers.

In vanilla sapient creatures (except some) have no pet value, this is exploit. Also in older versions some sapient creatures had value modifiers for materials (not just copy, try rebalance as other creatures rebalanced). Sapient creatures, who cannot equips, must have bashful 0:0:0 for preventing bad thoughts without clothes.

Poison wersions is better, but how you will do this?

Not add altar because goblins have no religion. You can add alchemic laboratory for demon (only demon can work). In alchemic laboratory they will make grimeling like creatures in further version and transform stone into slade in current version.

You can add no breathe to sea monster without removing aquatic. Or you can change aquatic to amphibious.

For working slow learners (and pets), without dfhack, you can add to this slow learners a very small natural skills. 
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: brolol.404 on October 26, 2019, 10:07:26 am
In vanilla sapient creatures (except some) have no pet value, this is exploit. Also in older versions some sapient creatures had value modifiers for materials (not just copy, try rebalance as other creatures rebalanced). Sapient creatures, who cannot equips, must have bashful 0:0:0 for preventing bad thoughts without clothes.

Yeah. I make copies of all of the creatures to make my own modifications. In this mod, the trolls have a pet value so they don't only cost 1. I can also add some unique value modifiers to the creature materials. I think this could be an interesting mechanic for the goblins.

Interesting. Thanks. I will either add EQUIPS (if it makes sense) or add bashful 0:0:0.

Poison wersions is better, but how you will do this?

I'll have to work on the code but it will look like:

REACTION:
REAGENT:A:1:AMMO:ARROW:NONE:NONE]
REAGENT:B:1:DRINK:NONE:INORGANIC:gf_POISON]
PRODUCT:100:1:AMMO:ARROW:INORGANIC:gf_POISON_ARROW]

The INORGANIC:gf_POISON_ARROW material would be similiar to wood/copper, but with a poison contact vascular syndrome attached to it.

Not add altar because goblins have no religion. You can add alchemic laboratory for demon (only demon can work). In alchemic laboratory they will make grimeling like creatures in further version and transform stone into slade in current version.

This is something that we still dont agree on. The goblins have religion just like dwarves. They worship deities of death, murder, war, etc. I also see them worshiping demons with their demon overlord acting as a god-king.

Is there any benefit to making slade? It does look like summoning will be possible in the next version without dfhack, but we will see.

For working slow learners (and pets), without dfhack, you can add to this slow learners a very small natural skills.

Adding different natural skills to the "pets" would be a good way to give them pros/cons for their use. I'll work on that. Thanks.
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: DerMeister on October 26, 2019, 10:58:38 am
In vanilla sapient creatures (except some) have no pet value, this is exploit. Also in older versions some sapient creatures had value modifiers for materials (not just copy, try rebalance as other creatures rebalanced). Sapient creatures, who cannot equips, must have bashful 0:0:0 for preventing bad thoughts without clothes.

Yeah. I make copies of all of the creatures to make my own modifications. In this mod, the trolls have a pet value so they don't only cost 1. I can also add some unique value modifiers to the creature materials. I think this could be an interesting mechanic for the goblins.

Interesting. Thanks. I will either add EQUIPS (if it makes sense) or add bashful 0:0:0.

Poison wersions is better, but how you will do this?

I'll have to work on the code but it will look like:

REACTION:
REAGENT:A:1:AMMO:ARROW:NONE:NONE]
REAGENT:B:1:DRINK:NONE:INORGANIC:gf_POISON]
PRODUCT:100:1:AMMO:ARROW:INORGANIC:gf_POISON_ARROW]

The INORGANIC:gf_POISON_ARROW material would be similiar to wood/copper, but with a poison contact vascular syndrome attached to it.

Not add altar because goblins have no religion. You can add alchemic laboratory for demon (only demon can work). In alchemic laboratory they will make grimeling like creatures in further version and transform stone into slade in current version.

This is something that we still dont agree on. The goblins have religion just like dwarves. They worship deities of death, murder, war, etc. I also see them worshiping demons with their demon overlord acting as a god-king.

Is there any benefit to making slade? It does look like summoning will be possible in the next version without dfhack, but we will see.

For working slow learners (and pets), without dfhack, you can add to this slow learners a very small natural skills.

Adding different natural skills to the "pets" would be a good way to give them pros/cons for their use. I'll work on that. Thanks.
Why you make poisons drinkable?! Poison is better as liquid_misc. You can add milkable to GCS and snakes or add them venom sack from butchering. Or add both. As poison for arrows you also can add corpse poison. Two types of corpse poison. I will translate effects of them soon.

In Villains Update summoning will work without dfhack.

If you make copies of vanilla creatures, why you do this?

No, goblins have no religion and no gods. They understand: demon is demon, not hero or living god. Goblins not worship gods, they think more materialistic.

Transform stone into slade sounds very demonic. Also demon's laboratory can produce corrupting drinks (that transform into "crone", "freak" etc. species).
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: Meph on October 26, 2019, 11:00:07 am
Slade I nice for ballista bolts, rock fall traps, and blunt weapons, as well as the floor for pit traps. Otherwise just for atmosphere.

The poison won't work without the add_splatter plugin. The only way for it to do anything is to make ammo of a material that melts and get a "stuck in body" it, if I remember correctly.

@dermeister: would it be possible to answer without quoting all previous posts? :)

I'm not sure what Goblins have to do with nightcreatures.
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: brolol.404 on October 26, 2019, 02:22:42 pm
Slade I nice for ballista bolts, rock fall traps, and blunt weapons, as well as the floor for pit traps. Otherwise just for atmosphere.

Oh cool. I'll add some slade reactions then. Would be cool to make a slade tower too.

The poison won't work without the add_splatter plugin. The only way for it to do anything is to make ammo of a material that melts and get a "stuck in body" it, if I remember correctly.

Oh. Maybe I won't do this then lol
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: brolol.404 on October 27, 2019, 05:46:46 am
Why you make poisons drinkable?! Poison is better as liquid_misc. You can add milkable to GCS and snakes or add them venom sack from butchering. Or add both. As poison for arrows you also can add corpse poison. Two types of corpse poison. I will translate effects of them soon.

If you make copies of vanilla creatures, why you do this?

Also demon's laboratory can produce corrupting drinks (that transform into "crone", "freak" etc. species).

I can add snake and spider venom too, but poisons will still be drinkable. I could actually make a "poison " that transforms creatures into the elemental men (blood, blizzard, mud and grimeling). I will probably do this instead of some other abomination transform.

I make copies of creatures so that I can do whatever I want with them without changing vanilla files to keep this mod compatible with everything else.
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: DerMeister on October 27, 2019, 07:54:38 am
Why you make poisons drinkable?! Poison is better as liquid_misc. You can add milkable to GCS and snakes or add them venom sack from butchering. Or add both. As poison for arrows you also can add corpse poison. Two types of corpse poison. I will translate effects of them soon.

If you make copies of vanilla creatures, why you do this?

Also demon's laboratory can produce corrupting drinks (that transform into "crone", "freak" etc. species).

I can add snake and spider venom too, but poisons will still be drinkable. I could actually make a "poison " that transforms creatures into the elemental men (blood, blizzard, mud and grimeling). I will probably do this instead of some other abomination transform.

I make copies of creatures so that I can do whatever I want with them without changing vanilla files to keep this mod compatible with everything else.
You not understand. If you make poison (arrow poisons, snake venoms) drinkable, your goblins will drink it and will be poisoned.

For blood and mud men will be better adding secret, that will be learned by all unique demons in world. Because mud men and blood men is weak. So demons will can transform all corpse parts, even sheared troll fur, into blood or mud men.

Whithout changing of vanilla files you will cannot tame wild evil creatures or milk wild giant rats.
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: brolol.404 on October 27, 2019, 10:19:12 am
You not understand. If you make poison (arrow poisons, snake venoms) drinkable, your goblins will drink it and will be poisoned.

For blood and mud men will be better adding secret, that will be learned by all unique demons in world. Because mud men and blood men is weak. So demons will can transform all corpse parts, even sheared troll fur, into blood or mud men.

Whithout changing of vanilla files you will cannot tame wild evil creatures or milk wild giant rats.
drinkable poisons have to be micromanaged, but they allow for assassins and targeted poisons/effects. You would have to forbid them after creation and dump them in controlled areas.

Yeah. That is the trade off of not altering vanilla files. I don't think those rare occurrences (finding and milking a giant rat or finding and taming a few evil biome creatures outweighs the compatibility issues). At least for the purposes of this mod.
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: DerMeister on October 27, 2019, 07:20:02 pm
You not understand. If you make poison (arrow poisons, snake venoms) drinkable, your goblins will drink it and will be poisoned.

For blood and mud men will be better adding secret, that will be learned by all unique demons in world. Because mud men and blood men is weak. So demons will can transform all corpse parts, even sheared troll fur, into blood or mud men.

Whithout changing of vanilla files you will cannot tame wild evil creatures or milk wild giant rats.
drinkable poisons have to be micromanaged, but they allow for assassins and targeted poisons/effects. You would have to forbid them after creation and dump them in controlled areas.

Yeah. That is the trade off of not altering vanilla files. I don't think those rare occurrences (finding and milking a giant rat or finding and taming a few evil biome creatures outweighs the compatibility issues). At least for the purposes of this mod.
This is very bad way. Make "poison" as liquid misc and "poisoned drink" for micromanagement.

If you will make good or good with issues mod, I manually compare it with other good mods.
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: brolol.404 on October 27, 2019, 07:43:02 pm
If you will make good or good with issues mod, I manually compare it with other good mods.

Yeah but I dont like to manually compare everytime I add a mod. I like them to just work together.
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: DerMeister on October 28, 2019, 01:41:05 pm
For drugs I have some suggestions. Goblins have giant toads. You can add them secretions, that also can be milked by goblins and mixed with water into drug drink ("toad draught"). You also can add drug made from golden salve (but this is more elvish, than goblinish). Better will be adding drugs made from creature organs, like adrenochrome from sapient brains. You even can add milkable clowns from my mod and drug milk/cottoncandy.

Grimeling will be better, if you make them non-sapient (but trainable and/or with natural skills), made of plant material and butcherable into algae that can be brewed into drug.

For more goblin drinks you can add non-alcoholic garum (ancient Rome sauce) made from fish. With kumis from milk and drinkable drugs this give to goblins ability to have drinks without plant farming.

For milking of sapients without dfhack you also can use feature from my mod. Add one workshop with reaction that make material that will boil into gas, This gas add syndrome to only milkable sapients. That syndrome temporary remove can_learn and slow_learner.
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: Meph on October 28, 2019, 01:52:04 pm
He doesn't want to milk sapient creatures.
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: DerMeister on October 28, 2019, 02:28:13 pm
He doesn't want to milk sapient creatures.
Why you not make sapient milking plugin for me?
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: DerMeister on October 28, 2019, 03:53:47 pm
Corpse poison exist in two types. Light corpse poison made from creature corpses (bigger corpse - more poison), heavy corpse poison made from remains. Light corpse poison give small nause when eaten, heavy not give effect from eating. But give effects when enters blood. Light corpse poison make swelling around wound, after hours (dwarf hours) all limb swelling with upper or lower body, starts fever and pain in all body parts, after a day start slow brain necrosis and impair function of liver and kidneys. Heavy corpse poison work faster - after a couple of minutes poison make nausea, drowsiness and dizziness, after more minutes - death from paralysis (paralysis heart and lungs).

Interesting? I can translate more poisons. Maybe, not only arrow poisons, but also contact poisons, food poisons and even gas poison.
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: DerMeister on October 28, 2019, 04:04:12 pm
As diluted toad secretions and diluted clown milk, you can make creatures with poisonous blood, that also can be diluted into drink/drug. With effects like numbness and erratic behavior.

Eaten and drinked drugs is not so interesting, like inhaled gas drugs! You can make hookah as workshop. One goblin work in this workshop, other goblins in room breath "smoke".
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: DerMeister on October 30, 2019, 03:59:17 pm
Are you here and work for new version of mod? Because I have some more suggestions.

Giraffe liver and bone marrow (for DF you can use bones or nervous tissue) can be brewed into drink with effects like ayahuasca.

Cobra venom can be mixed with smoking hemp for stronger effect.

Some DF spiders and worms can be used for drugs, like IRL Myelobia smerintha, Floria species, Phoneutria nigriventer and spanish fly. Spanish fly also useful for contact poison. Also exist drug fish species.

As curses you can add diseases. Like plague. But not try to focus on curses, this is not for DF.

As diseases you also can add nipah virus (from bats), other zoonotic diseases, parasitic worms (not as vermins, only as syndromes). And even, but this may be not in setting, special diseases from Plague Inc - necroa (new, contagious type of zombies), neurax worm (are disease and spread like disease, but also exist vermins who bite your creatures and start this syndrome), Nox Eternis (disease that can rare produce vampires) and disease inspired by simian flue (can transform animals into animal people, for normal sentients is just disease).

For diseases spreading you can make some materials and syndromes that give material emission. Ways of spreading possible to give different forms of disease (lung form, stomac form, skin form, blood form etc).
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: brolol.404 on October 30, 2019, 05:21:58 pm
Are you here and work for new version of mod? Because I have some more suggestions.
Yeah, but I normally have multiple mods going at once and only have so muc time, so I can't give a release date for any updates. They get done as my time and interest permits.

...
As diseases you also can add nipah virus (from bats), other zoonotic diseases, parasitic worms (not as vermins, only as syndromes). And even, but this may be not in setting, special diseases from Plague Inc - necroa (new, contagious type of zombies), neurax worm (are disease and spread like disease, but also exist vermins who bite your creatures and start this syndrome), Nox Eternis (disease that can rare produce vampires) and disease inspired by simian flue (can transform animals into animal people, for normal sentients is just disease).

For diseases spreading you can make some materials and syndromes that give material emission. Ways of spreading possible to give different forms of disease (lung form, stomac form, skin form, blood form etc).
I am still thinking about the drugs. I am not sure I will adding any relaxing type of drugs as I have always seen the goblins as a frantic and violent group. I will probably give them drugs that increase movement, combat ability, reduce the need to eat and sleep, etc. They will have have downsides to them though. I could use some venoms for it.

I do really like the idea of adding more diseases for the goblins. They have always been a disgusting and vile war torn race of brutal savages from my view of them. I will definitely use some of those ideas  and I do like the material emission idea. That would help spread them.
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: DerMeister on October 30, 2019, 06:12:08 pm
Are you here and work for new version of mod? Because I have some more suggestions.
Yeah, but I normally have multiple mods going at once and only have so muc time, so I can't give a release date for any updates. They get done as my time and interest permits.

...
As diseases you also can add nipah virus (from bats), other zoonotic diseases, parasitic worms (not as vermins, only as syndromes). And even, but this may be not in setting, special diseases from Plague Inc - necroa (new, contagious type of zombies), neurax worm (are disease and spread like disease, but also exist vermins who bite your creatures and start this syndrome), Nox Eternis (disease that can rare produce vampires) and disease inspired by simian flue (can transform animals into animal people, for normal sentients is just disease).

For diseases spreading you can make some materials and syndromes that give material emission. Ways of spreading possible to give different forms of disease (lung form, stomac form, skin form, blood form etc).
I am still thinking about the drugs. I am not sure I will adding any relaxing type of drugs as I have always seen the goblins as a frantic and violent group. I will probably give them drugs that increase movement, combat ability, reduce the need to eat and sleep, etc. They will have have downsides to them though. I could use some venoms for it.

I do really like the idea of adding more diseases for the goblins. They have always been a disgusting and vile war torn race of brutal savages from my view of them. I will definitely use some of those ideas  and I do like the material emission idea. That would help spread them.
Diseases will work not only for goblins. Vanilla goblins even have no fevers. But other races playing will be more fun with diseases (dwarves and humans have soap, but elves are fully in FUN).

Your vision of goblins may be more grotesque than needed. In vanilla goblins have taverns, markets, performers, even rare libraries. They are different, but civ, not a hive of warmachines. So why they cannot have some hallucinogenic drugs? Stimulators is good, but exist not only stimulators.

Also drugs can have effects not only fo war, but combinations of war and non-war(relaxing or disadvantage) effects. Like even hemp, that can be as painkiller and turn stress vulnerability to low, but give immoderation and dizziness. And erratic behavior, that in current version provide more fights.

Venoms can be hallucinogenic, even wasp venom is small psychedelic. But smoking gas in training ground for special effect will work faster. So you can add hookah.
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: DerMeister on November 02, 2019, 07:21:23 am
Also you can add not only kumis, but milk plus. This may be drugs or venoms diluted by milk, not water. Or even "managa", hemp infused milk. If your vision of goblins have only violence, they may have ultra-violence.
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v1.0
Post by: Iä! RIAKTOR! on October 03, 2020, 08:00:37 am
[reserved]
Will you make 47.04 version of this mod?
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v1.0
Post by: GOTOTOTOE on October 03, 2020, 10:23:42 am
[reserved]
Will you make 47.04 version of this mod?
i think thats impossible due to a 47.04 bug that causes other titles in an empire to become defunct in favor if it uses the dark pits structure type. it sucks and i hope its fixed soon
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v1.0
Post by: Iä! RIAKTOR! on October 03, 2020, 12:44:14 pm
[reserved]
Will you make 47.04 version of this mod?
i think thats impossible due to a 47.04 bug that causes other titles in an empire to become defunct in favor if it uses the dark pits structure type. it sucks and i hope its fixed soon
It is possible: expedition leader transform into mayor, so you can add positions with no responsibilities, but who only transform into generated ones. Or you can remove generated positions token from entity and add all positions manually.
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: GOTOTOTOE on October 10, 2020, 08:32:46 am
no, that's not the issue, it's the existence of the demon (which is caused by the dark fortress bulding type) that overrides whether or not you have generated positions
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: Iä! RIAKTOR! on October 10, 2020, 09:09:09 am
no, that's not the issue, it's the existence of the demon (which is caused by the dark fortress bulding type) that overrides whether or not you have generated positions
But you still can create dummy positions.
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: GOTOTOTOE on October 11, 2020, 07:46:02 am
no, that's not the issue, it's the existence of the demon (which is caused by the dark fortress bulding type) that overrides whether or not you have generated positions
But you still can create dummy positions.
yea and i never denied that, they just dont show up. never said you couldn't physically put them in the raws
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: Iä! RIAKTOR! on October 11, 2020, 10:33:00 pm
no, that's not the issue, it's the existence of the demon (which is caused by the dark fortress bulding type) that overrides whether or not you have generated positions
But you still can create dummy positions.
yea and i never denied that, they just dont show up. never said you couldn't physically put them in the raws
Expedition leader don't shown up? You will have one if embark.
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: GOTOTOTOE on October 12, 2020, 05:49:20 am
i'm talking about entity positions, not site positions
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: Iä! RIAKTOR! on October 12, 2020, 12:56:43 pm
i'm talking about entity positions, not site positions
Why do you think, they not shown up?
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: GOTOTOTOE on October 13, 2020, 05:28:43 am
i'm talking about entity positions, not site positions
Why do you think, they not shown up?
i assume it's because of the demon
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: Iä! RIAKTOR! on October 18, 2020, 07:12:13 am
i'm talking about entity positions, not site positions
Why do you think, they not shown up?
i assume it's because of the demon
I mean why do you have this opinion. What if they shown up, but you don't see them?
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: Eric Blank on October 21, 2020, 04:08:54 pm
He's probably tested it, like all the other people that have tested it, and learned that they aren't working properly.
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: Iä! RIAKTOR! on November 26, 2020, 08:45:04 am
What if just make modded goblins live in hillocks? If brolol.404 add new creatures for milkable rats, new goblin entity may have differences too.
Title: Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v1.0
Post by: brolol.404 on December 19, 2020, 02:32:21 pm
This mod has been updated to DF v47.04.

No changes were made from the previous version.

47.04 bug that causes other titles in an empire to become defunct in favor if it uses the dark pits structure type.

I have not experienced any issues with this after testing. The goblin nobility titles seem to work fine. Can you provide more specifics on the error?
Title: Re: [47.04] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: Enemy post on December 19, 2020, 02:42:40 pm
I'm surprised it hasn't happened for you yet, but normally Dark Fortress civs with extra noble titles crash the game in worldgen. Try generating a medium size+ world or two with a long history and Goblin Fortress, you should see the error soon.
Title: Re: [47.04] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: brolol.404 on December 19, 2020, 03:03:00 pm
I'm surprised it hasn't happened for you yet, but normally Dark Fortress civs with extra noble titles crash the game in worldgen. Try generating a medium size+ world or two with a long history and Goblin Fortress, you should see the error soon.

Ah ok. I just tried a few times on a medium world and finally got a crash. I guess it just is what it is if there is no fix.
Title: Re: [47.04] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: Enemy post on December 19, 2020, 03:14:00 pm
If you change the goblins to a different settlement type, the crash will stop. They won’t have demon overlords though, so that’s a tradeoff.
Title: Re: [47.04] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: brolol.404 on December 19, 2020, 11:10:53 pm
Yea. I may just change them to CAVE_DETAILED.
Title: Re: [47.04] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: Iä! RIAKTOR! on December 23, 2020, 06:45:25 pm
Yea. I may just change them to CAVE_DETAILED.
Will you upload changed version of mod?
Title: Re: [47.04] Goblin Fortress v2.0
Post by: brolol.404 on December 24, 2020, 06:45:24 am
Will you upload changed version of mod?

I will upload it today :)
Title: Re: [47.04] Goblin Fortress v2.2
Post by: brolol.404 on December 24, 2020, 07:50:37 am
v2.2 released!

I also updated [47.04] Vermin Birds (https://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=14444) and put a link in the mod description:

I highly recommend downloading [47.04] Fishing Expanded (https://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=14533) and [47.04] Vermin Birds (https://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=14444) with this mod. These mods remove wild animals from the wild animal cap that are inaccessible (i.e. swimming and flying) so that bones are easier to obtain.

Spoiler: Changelog v2.1 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Changelog v2.2 (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [47.04] Goblin Fortress v2.2
Post by: Iä! RIAKTOR! on December 25, 2020, 08:38:49 am
v2.2 released!

I also updated [47.04] Vermin Birds (https://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=14444) and put a link in the mod description:

I highly recommend downloading [47.04] Fishing Expanded (https://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=14533) and [47.04] Vermin Birds (https://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=14444) with this mod. These mods remove wild animals from the wild animal cap that are inaccessible (i.e. swimming and flying) so that bones are easier to obtain.

Spoiler: Changelog v2.1 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Changelog v2.2 (click to show/hide)
I think, demonic blessing and curses needs dfhack, except if you add demonish pets that will do things via interactions. But you can add all other planned things, like diseases, poisons and drugs.
Title: Re: [47.04] Goblin Fortress v2.2
Post by: brolol.404 on December 26, 2020, 06:35:03 am
I think, demonic blessing and curses needs dfhack, except if you add demonish pets that will do things via interactions. But you can add all other planned things, like diseases, poisons and drugs.

Yeah. If I add blessings and curses it will be through interactions. dfhack will not be added to this mod.

I may be able to add a gas reaction product that infects the worker after 'offering' remains at an altar, but this may not work out. I could also add consumables (that infect on consumption) or even just add really good demonic items (abyssal sword) that are the product of a remains offering.
Title: Re: [47.04] Goblin Fortress v2.2
Post by: brolol.404 on December 26, 2020, 06:56:28 am
Yeah. If I add blessings and curses it will be through interactions. dfhack will not be added to this mod.

I may be able to add a gas reaction product that infects the worker after 'offering' remains at an altar, but this may not work out. I could also add consumables (that infect on consumption) or even just add really good demonic items (abyssal sword) that are the product of a remains offering.

I actually might add an altar that after bringing it 20 remains has a chance to give you ore:

100% 5 chalk (flux)
80% 5 copper
60% 5 zinc
40% 5 silver
30% 5 tin
25% 5 gold
15% 5 iron
10% 5 platinum
5% 5 adamantine

This would further encourage the player to focus on killing
Title: Re: [47.04] Goblin Fortress v2.2
Post by: FantasticDorf on December 26, 2020, 01:10:25 pm
Just a suggestion based on something i'd planned to do to this modification at some point for my own satisfaction; would you consider upgrading the slave types to make them more distinct and narrative-friendly as to not get confused with other standard races?

Sort of like Elfkin Slave - "A distorted descendant of a protector of nature, indentured for so long they have become a silhouette of their former selves." etc


These kind of changes would make elements of this mod much easier to port without feeling too much like a full package required conversion.
Title: Re: [47.04] Goblin Fortress v2.2
Post by: brolol.404 on December 26, 2020, 03:09:22 pm
Just a suggestion based on something i'd planned to do to this modification at some point for my own satisfaction; would you consider upgrading the slave types to make them more distinct and narrative-friendly as to not get confused with other standard races?

Sort of like Elfkin Slave - "A distorted descendant of a protector of nature, indentured for so long they have become a silhouette of their former selves." etc
  • Slaves greeting people with sobbing/wailing interactions or something to that effect, nothing more than a cat-headbutt like greeting interaction, and spit in contempt.
  • Slightly distorted physiology (three fingers on the hand, extra ears), like a slight shade of hued green skin, some red or yellow eyes etc, mediocre stats.


These kind of changes would make elements of this mod much easier to port without feeling too much like a full package required conversion.

I really like this idea. I will work on doing this. thanks!
Title: Re: [47.04] Goblin Fortress v2.2
Post by: FantasticDorf on December 28, 2020, 11:41:57 am
I remembered some work that was done with rekov's elves and tinkered a bit until i got something that maybe works a little better for what i had in mind when using the corpse still.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Sacrificial blood is a trick that they picked up from Mephs masterwork-mod that im using here, which creates a generic reagent indiscernable from any kind of blood (a sort of O- of a kind) being sourced from a fake creature which in turn with this should open up a lot more doors as to what exactly is going to be done with it. Im still working on the details but i've engineered the fermented corpse drink to be a alternative end-product by mixing blood with regular alcohols (or a intermediary ingredient, i've not made my mind up) to be a lot more mild on the negative inebriation effects once i get around to learning more about interaction code to tone down the numbers.
Title: Re: [47.04] Goblin Fortress v2.2
Post by: brolol.404 on December 29, 2020, 07:58:35 pm
I remembered some work that was done with rekov's elves and tinkered a bit until i got something that maybe works a little better for what i had in mind when using the corpse still.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Sacrificial blood is a trick that they picked up from Mephs masterwork-mod that im using here, which creates a generic reagent indiscernable from any kind of blood (a sort of O- of a kind) being sourced from a fake creature which in turn with this should open up a lot more doors as to what exactly is going to be done with it. Im still working on the details but i've engineered the fermented corpse drink to be a alternative end-product by mixing blood with regular alcohols (or a intermediary ingredient, i've not made my mind up) to be a lot more mild on the negative inebriation effects once i get around to learning more about interaction code to tone down the numbers.

Interesting, thanks. I will look at this and consider using it after I wrap my head around it some more.
Title: Re: [47.04] Goblin Fortress v2.2
Post by: Broms on December 30, 2020, 12:35:40 pm
Has anyone found a way to create bones from corpse pieces?
Title: Re: [47.04] Goblin Fortress v2.2
Post by: FantasticDorf on December 30, 2020, 01:58:55 pm
Has anyone found a way to create bones from corpse pieces?

You could maybe manage totems (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Item_token#Limited.2FSpecial_Use_Item_Tokens) but specifically bones aren't a valid item-token to be targeted, i'd still rely on the default butcher workstation reactions.

What a CORPSE_PIECE would be returned as and whether you have any control over the end product would be a mystery but bones flagged as 'CORPSE' funnel themselves into mod specfied recipies for the corpse still as reagents well enough. (which might actually be a bug)