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Dwarf Fortress => DF Adventure Mode Discussion => Topic started by: Fruitsbrain Weapon-tosser on December 29, 2015, 07:17:06 am

Title: Any tips for an aspiring thrower?
Post by: Fruitsbrain Weapon-tosser on December 29, 2015, 07:17:06 am
I've just started Adventure Mode not long ago, and have gotten acquainted with things fairly quickly, but I can't tell if I'm doing throwing correctly or not. I've noticed that I don't even get a message about whether my attack even hit or missed, so I wonder if I'm doing anything wrong, or if I just need my thrower skill up higher to actually hit anything further than 4 spaces away  :P

-When aiming a thrown object, should I aim directly at the opponent's location, or should I aim beyond them, like when trying to jump-slam into an enemy?

-Are there any situations where an enemy can't be struck by thrown objects, like when they are prone or sent flying?

-Any special techniques regarding throwing? Only thing i know is that heavier is better, but I have not found much else.

Title: Re: Any tips for an aspiring thrower?
Post by: Uzu Bash on December 29, 2015, 08:12:19 am
If you don't hit a creature (or construct), you won't even get a message telling you what you threw.

- You should aim directly at the enemy, but if they're positioned orthagonally or diagonally, you could just aim that direction and it'll fly to the range you're capable of.

- They can't be hit by anything while midair, unless they're flying under their own power. Then hitting them, no matter how lightly, will immediately deliver the full force of every z-level between them and the ground.

- Denser is better, and gneiss is the densest rock type I've been able to pick up off the ground, at least on the surface. But silver spears and pikes are very good, as are silver bolts.
Title: Re: Any tips for an aspiring thrower?
Post by: Bloax on December 29, 2015, 08:28:27 am
If you're looking for ammo for grinding throwing then you can fill any container (the bigger the better) with water by "I"nteracting with it near water tiles and then just throwing water out of that container forever. This is consequently also the best way to have water around with you so that you never thirst, if a rather broken and silly one.
Title: Re: Any tips for an aspiring thrower?
Post by: Funk on December 29, 2015, 04:59:04 pm
Swords and axes are my favourite weapons, they can cut your target when they hit takeing off limbs.
Title: Re: Any tips for an aspiring thrower?
Post by: Fruitsbrain Weapon-tosser on December 29, 2015, 05:09:46 pm
I saw somebody mention elsewhere that stacks of coins make for surprisingly effective ammunition. How does one throw an entire stack versus a single coin, or am I mistaken?
Title: Re: Any tips for an aspiring thrower?
Post by: Uzu Bash on December 30, 2015, 12:24:02 am
Throw any stack, and one item will be thrown from it at a time.
Title: Re: Any tips for an aspiring thrower?
Post by: cdru on December 30, 2015, 01:01:28 am
Quote from: Fruitsbrain Weapon-tosser on December 29, 2015, 05:09:46 pm
I saw somebody mention elsewhere that stacks of coins make for surprisingly effective ammunition. How does one throw an entire stack versus a single coin, or am I mistaken?
In earlier version i was breaking bones with coins.Was it me who mentioned about throwing coins?
Title: Re: Any tips for an aspiring thrower?
Post by: Blastbeard on December 30, 2015, 01:45:01 am
When a weapon is thrown and hits its target, one of its attacks will be chosen at random to calculate damage. It's as likely the target will get pommel struck or flat slapped as they are to get slashed or stabbed. Most weapons have more flavor attacks than they do practical ones; with a  battleaxe, you have a one in three chance of dealing significant damage if you even hit in the first place. However...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Sometimes, less is more. Make of that what you will.

Spoiler:  P.S. If you like to cheat... (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Any tips for an aspiring thrower?
Post by: Bloax on December 30, 2015, 03:56:19 am
Quote from: Fruitsbrain Weapon-tosser on December 29, 2015, 05:09:46 pm
I saw somebody mention elsewhere that stacks of coins make for surprisingly effective ammunition. How does one throw an entire stack versus a single coin, or am I mistaken?
I'm pretty sure "stacks" here is referring to the fact that at some point (is this still possible?) coins could be 'p'ut inside anything, including other coins.
A stack of coins would then be throwing coins with a bunch of coins inside them.
Title: Re: Any tips for an aspiring thrower?
Post by: Fruitsbrain Weapon-tosser on January 04, 2016, 03:54:55 am
After grinding up to Legendary Thrower, I have to say that my most effective improvised weaponry are Spears, Picks, and Coins.

Spears can fracture bones, and have occasionally pierced organs. Not sure if embedded weapons effect enemies in any way, but it's nice to visualize it. Picks very often break bones, and have caused body parts to explode into gore on a number of instances. Coins are never gonna outright kill or maim anybody, but they have broken bones with frightening regularity for me. Perfect to halt a fleeing opponent or soften up a deadly foe, and their abundance and light weight means you can never want for ammunition.
Title: Re: Any tips for an aspiring thrower?
Post by: King Kitteh on January 04, 2016, 04:03:57 am
Embedded weapons count as weight, so if it was something heavy it can slow them down (why am I going slow? Oh right I forgot about that silver morning-star lodged in my arm). Also you can grab onto them as a wrestling move. They can stop the wounds they make from bleeding, not sure if that is completely or only somewhat. But I have almost bled to death from pulling arrows out of my chest.
Title: Re: Any tips for an aspiring thrower?
Post by: ZM5 on January 04, 2016, 05:15:21 am
Coins are basically tiny shurikens.

Obviously using blowdarts, bolts and arrows is also useful, as they can actually kill - you don't need a crossbow/bow/blowgun, just throw the ammo like you'd throw darts at a wall. I'm fairly sure coins can kill too but I haven't seen it yet. Knives, like the ones villagers use, and daggers are pretty good as well from my experience - they kill quite often or atleast knock people out - knife throws to the head that get jammed in the wound are also incredibly satisfying.

Honestly whenever I go thrower I just grab a bunch of random weapons from mead halls or warehouses and hold two shields. With high enough thrower skill you can throw any type of weapon and it'd still be effective.
Title: Re: Any tips for an aspiring thrower?
Post by: Amperzand on January 04, 2016, 05:26:54 am
You do, clearly, need quite high skill for it to work at all, however.

I've been having issues with the thrower grind macro, incidentally.
Title: Re: Any tips for an aspiring thrower?
Post by: ZM5 on January 04, 2016, 06:59:36 am
Even with not-very-high amounts of skill it's still pretty effective for debilitating enemies and potential victims. Once they're knocked out it's just a matter of putting them in a chokehold and strangling them. Or taking their own weapon and killing them with it, that's probably a more metal and dorfy way to go about it.

Not to mention the lucky throws you can still get that instantly kill someone, i.e knife jamming inside the head and tearing the brain, or a flying pickaxe severing the head, or a spear tearing the nerves in the neck.
Title: Re: Any tips for an aspiring thrower?
Post by: Amperzand on January 04, 2016, 07:52:20 pm
I mostly have really bad luck with aim.
Title: Re: Any tips for an aspiring thrower?
Post by: oh on January 23, 2016, 03:20:20 pm
Quote from: ZM5 on January 04, 2016, 05:15:21 am
I'm fairly sure coins can kill too but I haven't seen it yet.

They definitely can -- I very regularly pick a thrower + misc. object focused build and only carry coins for weapons, and it works remarkably well.

And high skill level isn't even necessary as far as I've been able to tell. I used to be able to get one-hit kill-shots with coins from some distance with only novice thrower. It was so incredibly broken. I haven't tried in this version so maybe the reason people are posting about how hard it is to do this stuff is because it's balanced now.
Title: Re: Any tips for an aspiring thrower?
Post by: Uzu Bash on January 23, 2016, 03:53:45 pm
I managed to kill an FB with one, but that was after throwing a bunch of other weapon and objects, including other coins. I wasn't nearly a Master at the time though, so it should work better with someone who focuses on the skills more.
Title: Re: Any tips for an aspiring thrower?
Post by: Untrustedlife on January 24, 2016, 12:11:37 am
I have had great luck throwing daggers and carving knifes. Makes one feel incredibly badass.
Title: Re: Any tips for an aspiring thrower?
Post by: Max™ on January 24, 2016, 01:49:52 am
It's part of my kisat dur build, spamming a bunch of knapping/throwing, spam wrestle animals or unconscious foes, if I'm using a weapon I strap them down, remove the weapon, two items of clothing, and my shield so they are in the same hand. Wear the clothing to free that hand, then bumrush someone, grab their weapon with one hand, body with your arm, when you land and they're flying through the air you pick someone and chuck the weapon at them.
Title: Re: Any tips for an aspiring thrower?
Post by: Uzu Bash on January 24, 2016, 09:39:52 am
Does misc object really have an effect on throwing? If that were the case, then thrown weapons damage would be dependent on skill in that weapon.
Title: Re: Any tips for an aspiring thrower?
Post by: Max™ on January 24, 2016, 10:24:32 am
Don't think so.
Title: Re: Any tips for an aspiring thrower?
Post by: Uzu Bash on January 24, 2016, 11:18:06 am
I got a native platinum gizzard stone that usually knocks a fleeing/flying opponent out, but my large silver makes kills more often. It also opens arteries, so if it doesn't kill in one, they may bleed out before I have to turn attention to them.

EDIT: I knew that Rocs could have native platinum and gold, but I've since found that all alligators and ostriches (presumably crocs and emus,) will have a gizzard stone of a random material, and can have native platinum. And because there are more of them than Rocs, you can farm them.
Title: Re: Any tips for an aspiring thrower?
Post by: Redman the Communist on February 01, 2016, 03:50:23 pm
Quote from: Untrustedlife on January 24, 2016, 12:11:37 am
I have had great luck throwing daggers and carving knifes. Makes one feel incredibly badass.

This. In my own experiences with throwing, knives/daggers seem to be able to one-shot anything not wearing a helmet (at least at a high thrower level). If you really want to get levels fast, collect an infinite amount of rocks, knap them all to sharp, and throw them at a wall over and over, you will get legendary in no time at all. Then once you are a legend in the arts of throwing things, go purchase/steal/find a ludicrous number of knives, and then challenge mighty beasts to battle, and laugh as their brain gets torn asunder by the knife storm. Small animal corpses work much better against undead or NOT_LIVING creatures (such as Bronze Body Builder Bros), since they do blunt damage and have a chance to knock their heads off.

Thanks, and have !!FUN!!
Title: Re: Any tips for an aspiring thrower?
Post by: Fruitsbrain Weapon-tosser on February 10, 2016, 07:28:28 pm
After more adventuring and testing, I've discovered that Coins seem to be the Whips of the Thrown Object world. I tested thrown weapons versus Coins against high Dodge targets, and the coins hit with drastically higher frequency than the weapons, and also cause bone shattering injuries with alarming ease.

I also used some Steel Bolts against a Bronze Colossi, and was able to take it out exclusively with Bolts in 1/4th of the time that it took me to kill another Colossi by beating its head in with a Steel Shield and Pick.
Title: Re: Any tips for an aspiring thrower?
Post by: Saiko Kila on February 16, 2016, 07:08:09 am
My legendary Thrower uses only arrows and bolts successfully. Hits almost every time, and 90% of hits against a living opponents are instant drop (due to unconsciousness from pain) or even kill. He can fight every enemy, including angels, rather safely - through dodging helps. Knives, other objects, are much worse. Coins are also good, but arrows seem to be better.
Title: Re: Any tips for an aspiring thrower?
Post by: pikachu17 on February 16, 2016, 11:32:39 am
I like riding wooden minecarts while throwing copper coins. riding a minecart is lots of !!FUN!!. do not crash into anything or you will regret it.
riding a minecart you can run away and throw at the same time.
Title: Re: Any tips for an aspiring thrower?
Post by: gordy on February 26, 2016, 07:38:47 pm
Is there a function to repeat actions for training purposes rn only macros?
Title: Re: Any tips for an aspiring thrower?
Post by: Uzu Bash on February 26, 2016, 07:56:23 pm
Quote from: gordy on February 26, 2016, 07:38:47 pm
Is there a function to repeat actions for training purposes rn only macros?
Pressing the same key sequence again should do it. And again.
Title: Re: Any tips for an aspiring thrower?
Post by: gordy on February 26, 2016, 08:53:07 pm
Anything less onerous than that?
Title: Re: Any tips for an aspiring thrower?
Post by: Uzu Bash on February 26, 2016, 09:55:04 pm
If you have dfhack you could write a lua script. It will run while tasking out of the window.