No always-online DRM requirement, unlike certain other games we don’t want to mention. You know who you are and your mothers are very disappointed.All my money.
Multi-player mode, with up to 4 players, lets you co-operate with your closest friends to build a glorious city… or fight a horrifying economic battle to total annihilation!
I am cautiously optimistic about this one... I love steampunk, and I like colony building games, and well, duh, dwarf fortress. Their PC gamer article says they kinda wanna do DF for everybody.How simplified DoD bothered me a bit too (as someone who likes rougelikes and a masochist (since how else could you actually play rougelikes), but this sounds totally awesome, I hope they pull it off well.
I didn't like how they oversimplified roguelikes in Dungeons of Dredmore, but that's clearly my problem since the game gets tons of love. Hopefully this one is going to be moar interesting for me too! :)
at least one foodstuff that doubles as a building material.:o :D
Also:QuoteNo always-online DRM requirement, unlike certain other games we don’t want to mention. You know who you are and your mothers are very disappointed.All my money.
For a super mega project it never really struck me as being that awesome. I'm wondering if they can make this different... such as instead of it simply being a monument, it could be a gigantic factory of awesome.
New “procedural extrusion” technology lets you design your colony the way you want! Buildings are procedurally generated and extruded directly from the aether to your specifications!
Nicholas (Vining, Technical Director) has an inherent hatred of poets, and this is coming out in our game."
So I remember "megaprojects" from the old citybuilders, and it was essentially just a resource hog that took forever to build. For a super mega project it never really struck me as being that awesome. I'm wondering if they can make this different... such as instead of it simply being a monument, it could be a gigantic factory of awesome. Or maybe it'll just be the usual resource hog with pretty graphics.
I'm a cynic :(
I haven’t touched on Clockwork’s volatile inversion of Civ-style Wonders: “inherently dangerous” Megaprojects.So it looks like megaprojects will be functional which is good.
All of this focus on intricate, narrative-driven sandbox city-building wouldn’t mean much if Gaslamp wasn’t putting emphasis on playability, which it mercifully is. They have some direct experience in this—Dredmor managed to domesticate the roguelike—a famously cryptic, literally-hard-to-decrypt style of game—with smart, flexible interface, cozy controls, and reference-laden tooltips. It was a cinch to play, but it retained the hardness and spirit of its ancestor game. Gaslamp wants to achieve this again with Clockwork. ‘We’re trying very hard not to outwardly or ostensibly label it as ‘Dwarf Fortress For Everybody.’ But that’s sort of our goal at heart, to try and take that experience and make it accessible,” says Jacobsen. “Two of the reasons why Dwarf Fortress isn’t for everyone right now are the graphics and the user interface. So we’re doing things that will allow us to try to get a lot of the functionality through while making it easy enough for people to pick it up.”Yuck, I really hope they don't dumb it down too much (which is my only real fear about this game).
Honestly have nothing to say here. It's like Gamer Jesus descended from heaven and presented a party bus to take us to the promised land, it also menaces with spikes of awesome.
I'll be watching this one eagerly.
It sounds very impressive, and I like the art style in the screenshots. My only real question at the moment is how their building system is going to work in practice. I do love me some flexibility and uniqueness in my buildings, but at the same time I do not want to design every building from scratch.
It’ll be moddable.
Comes complete with the Gaslamp Games Quality of Excellence that you know and love, and if you don’t like something you can mod it yourself in the best tradition of Empire Craftsmanship!My money. Take all of it.
Losing is still fun! When your colony fails miserably, earn medals, promotions, and titles as befits a true politician and scion of the Empire!Basically a DF player's wishlist, it seems. I haven't played DoD but color me interested.
Multi-player mode, with up to 4 players, lets you co-operate with your closest friends to build a glorious city… or fight a horrifying economic battle to total annihilation!
Round-Robin mode lets you share your Clockwork Empires with friends! Take turns running a colony directly into the ground then argue for fun-filled hours about whose fault it was! (Like Monopoly but with more exploding Zeppelins!)
This just put 2012 on the top of my list of best years for gaming.I heard it is coming out in 2013. Late 2013. Fully a unsubstantiated rumor of course. But Sounds about right.
The other exciting thing that we are doing is trying to solve the problem of getting bogged down in simulation, which Dwarf Fortress has a big problem with. Anybody who's ever opened Hell knows about this. The solution is to make the simuation layer span multiple cores efficiently, but this is easier said than done. To deal with this, we teamed up with the CASCADE research group at Simon Fraser University. Micah J. Best has joined us as a systems programmer, been working with us under the auspices of a MITACS Industrial Grant, and he and I have been building a very sophisticated message-passing and scheduling system. As a bonus, we get multiplayer, which would otherwise be impossible to try and send over a network. So we're being clever here.
Leading nicely into minimum spec requirements... This is the main reason why we are heavily pushing for quad-core as a minimum spec machine. Other than that, you'll need a DirectX 9-capable graphics card. (We use OpenGL, but it's a good baseline.) You'll get the best performance and visual effects if you have a newer graphics card, something that can support OpenCL or the OpenGL compute shaders that were just announced at SIGGRAPH 2012. You will also want a good chunk of RAM.
Seems like they're trying to play meme bingo here. All it needs now is zombies.
Also, I dislike the fact that making commercial DF clones is starting to become a trend.
Seems like they're trying to play meme bingo here. All it needs now is zombies.
Also, I dislike the fact that making commercial DF clones is starting to become a trend.
So Gaslamp Studio is making a procedural fantasy world generator that simulates weather, battles and every-day life of thousand of virtual people? Awesome!Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You specify a blueprint on the ground. You tag each wall with a "profile", which designates the building material and the profile of the roof. We then automatically extrude the building based on this. End result: you choose what the building looks like. (Then you stick decorations and gameplay elements on it, hook it to the Steam Pipes, etc.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhX79At0vng <-- this is not our system, but this is somebody else's implementation of the same algorithm we use. Ours does texturing, which his does not. So, yeah. Basically, if you want all your buildings to be octagonal Gothic Cathedrals, we'll accomodate you. If you just want to plunk down square megaliths, we got you covered. Want all your urchins to live in large, faux-Japanese pagodas? Got you covered. It's *very* cool stuff, and I'm really excited to be using it.
From Something AwfulQuoteYou specify a blueprint on the ground. You tag each wall with a "profile", which designates the building material and the profile of the roof. We then automatically extrude the building based on this. End result: you choose what the building looks like. (Then you stick decorations and gameplay elements on it, hook it to the Steam Pipes, etc.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhX79At0vng <-- this is not our system, but this is somebody else's implementation of the same algorithm we use. Ours does texturing, which his does not. So, yeah. Basically, if you want all your buildings to be octagonal Gothic Cathedrals, we'll accomodate you. If you just want to plunk down square megaliths, we got you covered. Want all your urchins to live in large, faux-Japanese pagodas? Got you covered. It's *very* cool stuff, and I'm really excited to be using it.
Something tells me the AI will be designing buildings if you let it, though. Like if you give it a free plot and a building type, then it will throw together something rational and low-efficiency.I sorta called it. "Let the computer handle the details" is the building style.
About bloody time, my F5 key was starting to get worn out :D
I can hardly find a single thing here to criticize yet, so for now I'm in the "shutuptakemoney.jpg" crowd.
:D
Making a settlement and supplying your people with needs is not unique to Dwarf Fortress. The scope of Dwarf Fortress is much more vast than that and to call something that borrows from the "build a colony" genre and calling it a DF clone is ignorance that shows both a misunderstanding of game mechanics and Dwarf Fortress as a whole.
Making a settlement and supplying your people with needs is not unique to Dwarf Fortress. The scope of Dwarf Fortress is much more vast than that and to call something that borrows from the "build a colony" genre and calling it a DF clone is ignorance that shows both a misunderstanding of game mechanics and Dwarf Fortress as a whole.
They're not making a game inspired by the colony building genre, they're making a game inspired by Dwarf Fortress. Maybe it won't be as shameless of a copy of DF as Gnomoria is, but it's clearly companies are starting to look for ways to monetize the DF phenomenon.
uhhh...
sorry, but B12 isn't that large a target audience.
uhhh...
sorry, but B12 isn't that large a target audience.
Radiation Spa (http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/08/28/interview-gaslamp-games-mad-incredible-vision-for-clockwork-empires/2/)
This actually existed, or was at least tested. Using radiation sources like radon you could cure a number of skin diseases.*QuoteRadiation Spa (http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/08/28/interview-gaslamp-games-mad-incredible-vision-for-clockwork-empires/2/)
what?
... small in a more relative than absolute sense, really. T4 alone's been keeping a steady couple hundred people playing just about 'round the clock, and that's just folks that can/bother set(ting) up an online profile. Crawl and nethack tourneys have been getting fairly consistent 100+ attendance. Obviously some overlap with players doing all of the above, but still. The roguelike audience is definitely in the "comfortably (tens of?) thousands" zone, which is a pretty solid financial base, if you can entice them. It's just not in the millions :Puhhh...
sorry, but B12 isn't that large a target audience.
The roguelike community is pretty small too but Gaslamp managed to build a company based on the success of Dredmor.
There can be money in something without it being Skyrim or Gears of War level money.
OY! GASLAMP PEOPLE! COME OUT OF LURKING! WE KNOW YOU'RE THERE, YOU REFERENCED US!
a 747 cockpit medieval soap opera simulatorI think I am going to like this game.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_radon#Intentional_exposureThis actually existed, or was at least tested. Using radiation sources like radon you could cure a number of skin diseases.*QuoteRadiation Spa (http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/08/28/interview-gaslamp-games-mad-incredible-vision-for-clockwork-empires/2/)
what?
*No Guarantee is made that the rest of your skin will survive
** We're not responsible for any radiation related diseases.
Bathing:
Radioactive water baths have been applied since 1906 in Jáchymov, Czech Republic, but even before radon discovery they were used in Bad Gastein, Austria. Radium-rich springs are also used in traditional Japanese onsen in Misasa, Tottori Prefecture. Drinking therapy is applied in Bad Brambach, Germany. Inhalation therapy is carried out in Gasteiner-Heilstollen, Austria, in Kowary, Poland and in Boulder, Montana, United States. In the United States and Europe there are several "radon spas," where people sit for minutes or hours in a high-radon atmosphere in the belief that low doses of radiation will invigorate or energize them.
Only major-ish issue I can see is the quad-core et al bits -- from what I've noticed a good chunk of their target audience tends toward older or weaker machines, which might lose them a bit of sales.Any multithreaded program can run on any machine exactly the same. It's how your computer runs your OS at the same time it runs your 5 internet tabs and Minecraft all at the same time, even though you don't have half a dozen cores. The OS essentially does a scheduling thing, where it says to a thread: "Okay, your turn to run for X cycles" whereupon that thread either runs for that many cycles or it hits a 'sleep' command and ends its turn prematurely; at which point the OS tells the next process it has time to run, and so on. It's the same thing for multiple cores, except it has multiple things that can run processes at once. The process management of the OS takes care of everything, so it will run the same no matter the hardware without needing a change in the program's code.
Any multithreaded program can run on any machine exactly the same. It's how your computer runs your OS at the same time it runs your 5 internet tabs and Minecraft all at the same time, even though you don't have half a dozen cores. The OS essentially does a scheduling thing, where it says to a thread: "Okay, your turn to run for X cycles" whereupon that thread either runs for that many cycles or it hits a 'sleep' command and ends its turn prematurely; at which point the OS tells the next process it has time to run, and so on. It's the same thing for multiple cores, except it has multiple things that can run processes at once. The process management of the OS takes care of everything, so it will run the same no matter the hardware without needing a change in the program's code.
Quad isn't really a necessity so much as it's a strong recommendation.
OY! GASLAMP PEOPLE! COME OUT OF LURKING! WE KNOW YOU'RE THERE, YOU REFERENCED US!And then they did! Hello, Daniel!
You talk about madness and your scientists summoning demons and other horrible things,can we promote this and go down the path of madness and run a colony of cultist and have it be a feature and have it playable ?
I want to have a colony of mad scientists who have free reign on their research while I push them down a path of the occult
And will there be a alpha/beta maybe even a kickstart ? And can we buy into the beta like minecraft ?
pump magmaNonono, magma is well known here to be successful and proven, this is a time for SCIENCE! We shall pump LIQUID ELECTRICITY!
practicality? pffft. I want a barely-functional doomsday device that requires constant maintenance to keep it from exploding.
largely because the explosion would be awesome.
No, it'll be in the middle of town.practicality? pffft. I want a barely-functional doomsday device that requires constant maintenance to keep it from exploding.
largely because the explosion would be awesome.
I assume it'll be built next to the aristocrat mansions?
Oh fine, sure, just this once =P A lot of this is totally unanswerable. I'm only answering the ones that I feel we can at this point, and then i'm getting back to work!Above and beyond the call... Thanks for the insight, Daniel :DSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Oh fine, sure, just this once =P A lot of this is totally unanswerable. I'm only answering the ones that I feel we can at this point, and then i'm getting back to work!Spoiler (click to show/hide)
To be discussed. There are a lot of knife fights ongoing in the office about this.
‘We’re trying very hard not to outwardly or ostensibly label it as ‘Dwarf Fortress For Everybody.’ But that’s sort of our goal at heart, to try and take that experience and make it accessible,” says Jacobsen. “Two of the reasons why Dwarf Fortress isn’t for everyone right now are the graphics and the user interface. So we’re doing things that will allow us to try to get a lot of the functionality through while making it easy enough for people to pick it up.”
Expect to be disappointed. Sorry.
This is extremely ambitious. Enormously so. Especially for a project which isn't showing off alpha code to the interviewer, yet is targeting a late 2013 launch.
Double especially if Gaslamp continues to release Dredmor DLC.
There's only so many hours in a day, only so many coders that can work on a project before Brooks' Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mythical_Man-Month) kicks in and you actually get negative progress.
Just saying. Sorry about the downer, but keep your expectations in the lower atmosphere.
It's all very well saying that we are inspired by Dwarf Fortress, and we are. We love it for what it is, and also for what it stands for; we love, in particular, the generative story and the emergent narrative that comes out of random systems and character driven elements. We're all for that. Making that work is our big, big focus at this point. We have the technical infrastructure in place for most of the renderer, the procedural building stuff, the terrain, the water, the skeletal animation, the networking, rag-doll physics, the UI code... you name it. CE sits on top of a pile of engine work that I've been poking at since, er, 2002, in various incarnations - this is why, as opposed to Dredmor, CE runs its own windowing system. (Yes, I'm insane.)
Where our focus really lies right now is in making a game that has deep, emergent behaviour, and where this depth leads to you - as a player, or a group of players - having wonderful, funny, beautiful, doom-laden adventures in a sandbox you want to mess about in, and where you want to go off and play in the sandbox with your friends. These friends will soon be enemies for life.
One thing I do want to make people aware of: we are not setting out to directly clone, say, the ten best DF features with an eye towards putting them in a nice package with 3D graphics, multiplayer, and multi-core acceleration. Some things that work really well in DF simply aren't things that are feasible for us, things that we want to do, things that we think will make CE a good game, or things that work in three dimensions. (The big one is digging. It doesn't work in three dimensions. Multiple selectable height layers are a crufty, awful mess.) Our big takeaway is that we want big screaming panicky doomed cities full of explosions and massive constructions and dubious secret projects and Obeliskian Death, and this is what we shall deliver at the end of the day.
Other people are taking the DF stuff and are staying much truer to its digging and simulation aspects - and, well, more power to them. (I think it's easier with 2D art as opposed to 3D - the closer you get to photorealism, the more you have to deal with symbolic representations rather than visual representations, and this makes life interesting.) More than anything, for us DF is a good latch-word; people sort of go "Oh! It's like THAT." Well, yes. But it's also not like that. We hope we can do something different - that we can push things forward, that we can make something unique, and that CE will stand on its own two legs and will advance the state of the Steampunk isometric city-building people-destroying Lovecraftian simulator genre.
Oh fine, sure, just this once =P A lot of this is totally unanswerable. I'm only answering the ones that I feel we can at this point, and then i'm getting back to work!Thank you very much for answering, between this and all the stalking, my knowledge may yet be satiated.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Expect to be disappointed. Sorry.
This is extremely ambitious. Enormously so. Especially for a project which isn't showing off alpha code to the interviewer, yet is targeting a late 2013 launch.
Double especially if Gaslamp continues to release Dredmor DLC.
There's only so many hours in a day, only so many coders that can work on a project before Brooks' Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mythical_Man-Month) kicks in and you actually get negative progress.
Just saying. Sorry about the downer, but keep your expectations in the lower atmosphere.
You're completely delusional if you think this isn't doable. It's not really more complex than a Sim City game and they've got a larger team than Dredmor on this (with one more patch planned for DoD IIRC over at Something Awful before the team is going full time). We also don't know how long it's been in the works.
It's always reasonable to keep expectations reasonable but honestly I found your post condescending as shit and needless. We're grownups, we can decide on our own when the game is complete.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Sure, whatever.
Go read that interview again, okay? Count the occurrences of "it (the game) will be" and "you (the player) will/can do" versus "we already have this working." The whole piece sounds like a roadmap mixed with a brainstorming session.
Sounds like the engine is working enough to build things on it, but still needs development. (Assuming they're not rewriting the experimental engine.) Everything else? 2D art, 3D art, animation, detailed backstory, detailed NPCs, AI (oh God the AI this will need), UI, hotseat multiplayer, networked multiplayer, mod support? Does any of that exist yet? The interview indicates it mostly doesn't.
Hell, they even mention "everything and the kitchen sink." (Quoted out of context, but still.)
You know what other game has everything and the kitchen sink? Nethack. You know how long Nethack was developed before the project went dark? Twenty Years. And Nethack is singleplayer, ASCII, has basically placeholders for backstory and NPCs, and has tiny primitive AI.
I want this to succeed. I do. And if they even meet a third of these ambitions, I'll buy my copy.
But keeping my expectations low? Being realistic? Being pessimistic? Is not being completely delusional.
Current state of the codebase: We panicked a bit about it last week, then we wrote out absolutely where we need to be and what we need to do in order to get to a beta, and then we panicked a lot less. So suffice it to say, a lot has been done and we're on track. At some point, though, you just need to shut up and announce your game already.They've also been working on it since almost last year, as well, so while I do agree and understand your pessimism, I do think they'll be able to achieve at least 2/3 of their goals. Of course, like you said, even if they DO manage to only make 1/3, I'll still be happy and I'll buy that too.
Basically, the renderer is about 85% done, the procedural building stuff mainly works and just needs debugging/a few extra features, the AI is currently running around harvesting resources, and I just got a first pass at the netcode from Ryan!
PTW:Sir, this is bay12. I am shocked at your lack of imagination. Taming a creature to set him on the natives? Amateur!
also i was wondering if its possible to trap that huge sea serpent in the screenie and then tame him for use against the natives?
No. We capture the serpent and train it to attack our own people.That comes much later, when one of the young get the taste of dwarf blood during an accident involving a shovel, a high speed minecart, and not less than four goblins.
Only problem: you are playing as the humans this time around. Therefore the accident equation would instead involve tesla coils, minced spike menace and a baby stuck in a high pressure valve under the sea.No. We capture the serpent and train it to attack our own people.That comes much later, when one of the young get the taste of dwarf blood during an accident involving a shovel, a high speed minecart, and not less than four goblins.
Fixed for little steampunk mermaid segue.Only problem: you are playing as the humans this time around. Therefore the accident equation would instead involve tesla coils, minced spike menace and a baby stuck in a high pressure valve under the sea ♫.No. We capture the serpent and train it to attack our own people.That comes much later, when one of the young get the taste of dwarf blood during an accident involving a shovel, a high speed minecart, and not less than four goblins.
Question... You guys know about the Girl Genius Comic (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/)?
Yes yes yes yes yes steam punk colony game Fuck yes!!
Terrific. Back to that mention of a volcano you made—what would be the process of exploiting that? You would send people in, and some of them might die, to build a structure that takes magma out?
DB: Well, it’s obviously also quite dangerous.
DJ: You’re going to dig down in the lava, we know that’s what people like.
NV: Sure. We’re very big on pumps and pipes and gears.
DB: I’m sure you’d send naturalists in first, see if there’s minerals and any natives and what they might think of this whole situation.
DJ: And then you’ll ignore their advice and build a giant tube that takes all their magma and puts it directly in the middle of your town because that’s the safest thing to do. You could probably also do it in much safer ways.
NV: But you’ll do that.
Terrific. Back to that mention of a volcano you made—what would be the process of exploiting that? You would send people in, and some of them might die, to build a structure that takes magma out?OOGA BOOGA OOGA BOOGA ONE OF US! ONE OF US!
DB: Well, it’s obviously also quite dangerous.
DJ: You’re going to dig down in the lava, we know that’s what people like.
NV: Sure. We’re very big on pumps and pipes and gears.
DB: I’m sure you’d send naturalists in first, see if there’s minerals and any natives and what they might think of this whole situation.
DJ: And then you’ll ignore their advice and build a giant tube that takes all their magma and puts it directly in the middle of your town because that’s the safest thing to do. You could probably also do it in much safer ways.
NV: But you’ll do that.
I'm not asking about replacing any sort of upgrade system, or anything like that. This seems like a very complex simulation game, and I'm asking if anyone can think of a use for these systems in situations other than upgrading infrastructure or automating things
When all you've got is an adjustable spanner and an entire freight warehouse of terrifying cogs and gears, everything looks like "just a prototype".
That's hardly pedantic at all. It's like comparing a hydrauling digging scoop to a microchip. Utterly different.True, but to someone who doesn't know the difference a 'vacuum tube' probably sounds appropriate as a moniker for a pneumatic tube. I mean its a 'tube' which sucks things through it like a vacuum.
I recall you saying that you've been sigged so many times people no longer need your permission for it. Thank you for this quote.I'm a bit sad you got to it before I did. :P It's a good point though, I hadn't really thought about it from a creative side, just from the gameplay side. It sounds like they're trying to start from the creative side too, so that gives me hope for some neat things.
You should power it with ground up baby animals.Also the bones of the innocent.
But what will you use for bread? D:Well... I learned from Dwarf Fortress that cows have sweetbread. Does that count?
Have I mentioned that I love you guys?Yes, if you mean bay12. if you're talking about gaslamp you may or maynot have before. Or your avatar is being confused with someone else's, sorry ;)
Like, sexually?Nope.
We're playing with a lot of things as far as the more sophisticated systems go.
Our current system operates very much like a flow chart, with various resources and energy sources being combined with buildings that convert them into other things, and it turns out that even this simple system can create a lot of really weird, really cool stuff.
Vacuum tubes are great logic gate material, and we *are* thinking about that right now. Hm...
Or if its too complex, you start getting mechanics that can't fix anything simpler because of the madness warping their sense of scale.
Or if its too complex, you start getting mechanics that can't fix anything simpler because of the madness warping their sense of scale.
Righto, Aklyon. But the whole point is for Gaslamp, that if you do put it in, we will definitely use it. 8)
:-\Hell, I do this about every game that comes out. It usually lasts for a week or two, then I scale it down. Wait a while, people will see if it is less than they where expecting, or it will turn out just as awesome.
Am I the only one here who sorta wants a awesomely themed, fun to play and slick city management game?
Logic gates? Giant automated contraptions? Custom buildings (custom in function, not looks)? Varying complexity levels?
All of this sounds incredibly hard to make into a actual game. It seems likely that trying for this sorta thing will only end in tears as their basics are left lacking (or even worse forced to interact with this layer of complexity) and all this extra shit ends up as gimmicky garbage.
I mean, I am sure the Gaslamp guys know their limits, and are going to avoid all this shit and are going to make a awesome game, but the rest of you guys seem to be working yourself up into a frenzy over stuff that has no way in hell of happening. Stop looking at pie in the sky gimmicky bullshit feature creep that you made up in your heads and start looking at the cool game they are actually offering. At this rate you guys are going to be very upset when this game comes out, even if it turns out totally awesome.
PTW
:-\
Am I the only one here who sorta wants a awesomely themed, fun to play and slick city management game?
Logic gates? Giant automated contraptions? Custom buildings (custom in function, not looks)? Varying complexity levels?
All of this sounds incredibly hard to make into a actual game. It seems likely that trying for this sorta thing will only end in tears as their basics are left lacking (or even worse forced to interact with this layer of complexity) and all this extra shit ends up as gimmicky garbage.
I mean, I am sure the Gaslamp guys know their limits, and are going to avoid all this shit and are going to make a awesome game, but the rest of you guys seem to be working yourself up into a frenzy over stuff that has no way in hell of happening. Stop looking at pie in the sky gimmicky bullshit feature creep that you made up in your heads and start looking at the cool game they are actually offering. At this rate you guys are going to be very upset when this game comes out, even if it turns out totally awesome.
My expectations are currently set at The Settlers: Clockwork town. Which sounds really damn awesome and actually possible.
After reading the latest blog post, I thought I'd post here, instead of the comments section there.+1
The meta-game focus will be political, moving up the ranks, gaining favors, trying to make friends and kick the enemies in the arse; but will you be able to break totally away from the Empire? Could you gather enough prestige and wealth to start your own? Or how far up can you go in the Empire if you do act as their loyal and happy lapdog?
I'd love for Clockwork Empires to be sorta open-ended, and yet so full to do just about anything you want as you get deeper and deeper into the game. As a fan of the Settlers games, I love city building and production chains and economic structures all on their own; but at the same time, I'd love for the meta-game to have a purpose as well, just beyond spreading the story of moving from point A to point B (ala Settlers 7: Paths to a Kingdom).
Okay, ranting done. Thankya.
I'd love for Clockwork Empires to be sorta open-ended, and yet so full to do just about anything you want as you get deeper and deeper into the game. As a fan of the Settlers games, I love city building and production chains and economic structures all on their own; but at the same time, I'd love for the meta-game to have a purpose as well, just beyond spreading the story of moving from point A to point B (ala Settlers 7: Paths to a Kingdom).
Just a quick note - we're trying to post something game development related on the blog every Tuesday.
Thanks for the continued interest guys, it means a lot to us.
Just a quick note - we're trying to post something game development related on the blog every Tuesday.Awesome. Will have to add that to the list of things to look forward to every week.
Thanks for the continued interest guys, it means a lot to us.
there is nothing worse than getting your empire working how you like and then mission complete and you have to start again.And yet having it all crumble in fame is actually a very preferred way. Roguelikes make you think weird.
there is nothing worse than getting your empire working how you like and then mission complete and you have to start again.And yet having it all crumble in fame is actually a very preferred way. Roguelikes make you think weird.
there is nothing worse than getting your empire working how you like and then mission complete and you have to start again.And yet having it all crumble in fame is actually a very preferred way. Roguelikes make you think weird.
The difference is you let (or are unable to prevent) it crumble, rather than a 'well done, good job, now we are taking that off you and you get to start again'.
hey Daniel will there be beta and alpha testing for clockwork empire ?
hey Daniel will there be beta and alpha testing for clockwork empire ?
Definitely! We hope to have a playable game for people to start trying to crash/break by Feb/March. I'll keep you guys up to date =)
Will this be some lame Kickstarter "pay to be an alpha tester" or is the alpha/beta going to be a demo and full version for pay?They said they're going traditional, making the game and then selling it.
Will this be some lame Kickstarter "pay to be an alpha tester" or is the alpha/beta going to be a demo and full version for pay?
...you guys probably know a lot more about testing than the average KS backer ; )
Will this be some lame Kickstarter "pay to be an alpha tester" or is the alpha/beta going to be a demo and full version for pay?
We won't make you pay to be an alpha/beta tester. We'll likely just run this the way we did with Dredmor, where we just pick some people who get access to the builds as they come out, we get feedback from you guys, and eventually you'll probably end up with whatever build was one step from our GM copy.
As a rule, we're not fans of Kickstarter. The only reason we'd run something like that is if we absolutely needed the money to get the game finished, and that doesn't look like it will happen at this point. Even then, we'd have alpha and beta testers who weren't KS backers, because honestly, you guys probably know a lot more about testing than the average KS backer ; )
As someone who's designed a Turkey Box of Horror to train infant dwarves into scared and powerful killing machines by age 12, I think I can rightfully say that at least half of the Bay12 community knows how to exploit facets of a game by forcing them together until it becomes broken. Game mechanics are not rules. They are tools.
Insanity is optional, but encouraged.As someone who's designed a Turkey Box of Horror to train infant dwarves into scared and powerful killing machines by age 12, I think I can rightfully say that at least half of the Bay12 community knows how to exploit facets of a game by forcing them together until it becomes broken. Game mechanics are not rules. They are tools.
I'm going to guess that the fact that Bay 12 places book on ethics and morality under "fiction" is also a large factor on those things being born... We are probably not alone in love for complexity and mechanic exploitation.
If you're watching this thread, your chances of getting early access to the game are good ; )Ah, excellent. I am very much partial to more complexity, but Spacechem is indeed a bit much. Good that you have the specific role thought out, not doing that generally leads to feature creep. Would be appreciated if you were to put in some basics though, kinda like how DF computation stems entirely from the fact that pressure plates react to water. You can do some awesome stuff with relatively simple tools.
As for the conveyor belts, I can't give you specific answers yet. The thought process behind them is an automation of the otherwise human-intensive job of "hauling stuff". It's likely that, as in real life, automating these processes sacrifices versatility for very specific use-case efficiencies. It's therefore also likely that, in many cases, a conveyor belt won't be the best option. But if you have a constant need for a particular commodity, and you invest heavily in one specific path to that commodity, conveyor belts will be your friend.
Also, I love Spacechem =) However, if resource management in Clockwork Empires ever gets to that level of complexity, I think we have probably diverged too far from the game we set out to make. I know more than a few people who have played that game, and only 2 that have completed it, including Zach.
I have a sudden and tremendous urge to plug cthulhu into a power generator and use him to light up the east coast.The concept art on their blog says yes.
Will... will we be able to do that? Run our gristle mills on eldritch abominations and grind their juju to make our bread? Themonolithobelisk thing sounded interesting but I want to actually shove an electrical socket into Dagon's nethers and power a chainsaw from it.
Hmm...
Ah, right, that silly cultural... something or other. What about the rack? Would racked cthulhu be acceptable?Hmm...
Something tells me electrified crucifixes will not be featured in the game :p
This talk of exploiting things sparked a couple of questions in my head. More precisely questions about conveyors and automation.
This (http://www.gaslampgames.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/how_production_works.jpg) shows a simple one destination conveyor, that can apparently filter what it takes in. Useful for combined stockpiles I presume, but how do they deal with overflow of one resource? Lets say a factory requires iron and wood, with no proper filtering if you run out of either of them, the other resource would fill up the input stockpile and make future production impossible. Or do supplier conveyors(as opposed to those who shuffle things between stockpiles) respond to the demands of their corresponding factories? Can you "reserve" stockpile space, making it impossible to fill it with the wrong type of resources and how do conveyors react to a filled stockpile?
And how would one deal with having a central stockpile and 2 factories that require an equal amount of resources? It would work fine(I presume) when the stockpile is filled, but when it isnt, does one of the supplying conveyors get precedence and always get incoming resources? Basically is there automatic flip-flopping of supplied conveyors? Or could you construct a flip-flop gate on a single conveyor, causing it split into two factories with both getting 50% of the supplied resources? (Sorry if the flip-flop thing isnt proper terminology, I'm just thinking in terms of Spacechem. On that note you should try out Spacechem if you havent, it deals precisely with this sort of automation.)
On another note, lets say you have 2 mayor stockpiles, one on one end of the map and one on the other. Is it possible to connect them with conveyors in such a way that they would always stay balanced, or are conveyors only useful for one-way transporting?
And lastly, can you change the amount of resources that a conveyor transports, so you could change the supply depending on how much a factory requires, and according to your whims?
Ah, right, that silly cultural... something or other. What about the rack? Would racked cthulhu be acceptable?Hmm...
Something tells me electrified crucifixes will not be featured in the game :p
Stop trying to plug things into Cthulhu. Eldritch abominations are not a viable source of electricity.Lies! If you can make it spin, you can make it generate electricity. Given enough steam and sufficient gears*, we can make Cthulhu spin. And then power our automatic tea brewers with the energy. Live the dream.
All that we really need is to have it be turing complete. Then we can do anything with it!
Looking forward to see how this develops. Real excited for it!
The Bay 12 Forums have spoken: "Make sure Clockwork Empires is Turing-Complete and we don't care about anything else." Your word is law.
All that we really need is to have it be turing complete. Then we can do anything with it!
Looking forward to see how this develops. Real excited for it!
Look at what you've done. Just look at it. (https://twitter.com/GaslampGames/status/261186238806114304)QuoteThe Bay 12 Forums have spoken: "Make sure Clockwork Empires is Turing-Complete and we don't care about anything else." Your word is law.
If you're watching this thread, your chances of getting early access to the game are good ; )
...
Also, I love Spacechem =) However, if resource management in Clockwork Empires ever gets to that level of complexity, I think we have probably diverged too far from the game we set out to make. I know more than a few people who have played that game, and only 2 that have completed it, including Zach.
And yeah while Spacechem is a decent game, you don't want that kind of complexity in your face, but then again we all play DF here...I think its other people that they are concerned about. DF sits comfortably in a niche of a niche, meaning it has a strong and specific fanbase that it caters to. Works pretty well for Toady with the donation model, but if you are making a game for actually selling, you need some mass appeal.
I remember playing the old Pharaoh's games, myself. I enjoyed watching buildings auto-upgrade whenever the required resources were available. At the time, I was too young to dig into the depths, and let it do its own thing with the default settings for the buildings and whatnot.
But in response to your population question, Urist McSpike, what do you think about unemployment having a minor happiness/madness hit, while the Colonial Employment Bureau provides them make-work? Random hauling jobs, street cleaning? Doesn't pay very much, but they could perhaps get a token for booze every day, to provide for their basic survival. This makes expanding the basics more meaningful, as it stops the negative economic hit.
In the article 'Storytelling as Game Design', they talked about the starting buildings produced by those who didn't have any work, makeshift and dirt cheap huts and the like. They could become slums and be really ugly should unemployment get too high. They could also negatively affect traffic/logistics/hauling/jobs that go through the 'slums' area, pesturing and begging. I like that better than just going 'oh, they're unemployed and thus unhappy', although if it gets too bad, I do expect some of them to leave.
Another thought on that, of course, would be that otherworldly creatures could more easily slip into slums unnoticed, compared to the other places of your city. Guard patrols are less, crime is higher, lawlessness would be common... poisoned opium, really bad booze... Yeah, that could get so messy. Could make gathering madness alot easier, though. But that's only if you have some way of using it for anything other than regular -FUN-.
All that we really need is to have it be turing complete. Then we can do anything with it!
Looking forward to see how this develops. Real excited for it!
Look at what you've done. Just look at it. (https://twitter.com/GaslampGames/status/261186238806114304)QuoteThe Bay 12 Forums have spoken: "Make sure Clockwork Empires is Turing-Complete and we don't care about anything else." Your word is law.
And yeah while Spacechem is a decent game, you don't want that kind of complexity in your face, but then again we all play DF here...I think its other people that they are concerned about. DF sits comfortably in a niche of a niche, meaning it has a strong and specific fanbase that it caters to. Works pretty well for Toady with the donation model, but if you are making a game for actually selling, you need some mass appeal.
Or that bored and out of work naturalist could start to produce drugs and sell them to the rest of your colony ? you know like how the poorly paid chemist teacher goes to making meth :POr that bored and out of work naturalist could find a new hobby in favorite eldritch cult chapter past-times... sanity roulette and bingo.
EDIT : I also went back to the front page this game is going to be multiplayer as well.... Damn you production time!!.. even though i do like to coperate with my friends sometimes i would also like a head to head mode where you are competing against a friend
It would be awesome to have a plague mechanic. I want the possibility to play a very sad, perilous game where the citizens are barely getting by, as the nobles live in the rich areas highly impervious to plague due to better containment and availability of elixirs and whatnot. Then the citizens form a revolt that gets put down immediately because the commoners are dying off from the plague. And the commoners that refuse to die of hunger or the plague join a criminal underworld where they take what they need in force. The military constantly combats the strife within the city, as well as possibly other empires. It would be grounds for complete chaos. It should be sustainable for the amount of time suitable for a decent play session, unlike other games where if your city is going to shit, you lose the game.
Or, an awesome, bright, happy game where everyone lives a happy life. Nobles are rich and satisfied, as the humble commoners of the middle class work honest jobs as farmers, miners, etc etc. The military will hardly be put to use, other than to ward off attacks from wolves that roam the woods outside the city.
First concept is heavily influenced by Dishonored. :D
The power of choice is what will make this game perfect, in my opinion.
I actually think the 'Overseer' class of characters won't have to deal with unemployment. They're already employees of the cities regime. They'd have special skills and whatnot that make them generally more profecient, and specialized, than the commoners. Also, its more logical that a second overseer can be put on the same job with a fully staffed one to help increase the production effeciency and whatnot.
P.S.: I'mma going to check Pharaoh's Heaven out, Urist McSpike. As for city building games, I do indeed enjoy them. As of this moment, I got a bunch of them installed, and I play many of them regularly. Tropico 4 and the Anno games especially. Children of the Nile Enhanced Edition is also nice.
I wonder how Toady does it. I mean, dwarfs all have personal preferences, ya? They don't really impact the gameplay to the extent it seems one would want in this game, though...
Well it influences some jobs,(most importantly healing) and it also influences the product quality.I wonder how Toady does it. I mean, dwarfs all have personal preferences, ya? They don't really impact the gameplay to the extent it seems one would want in this game, though...
Yeah, I don't think the dwarves preferences are really tied in with the AI. I think it just makes them happy if they happen to use/look at/eat something they like.
Well it influences some jobs,(most importantly healing) and it also influences the product quality.I wonder how Toady does it. I mean, dwarfs all have personal preferences, ya? They don't really impact the gameplay to the extent it seems one would want in this game, though...
Yeah, I don't think the dwarves preferences are really tied in with the AI. I think it just makes them happy if they happen to use/look at/eat something they like.
I'm pretty sure it does just that. Dwarves that like beds will make better beds for example, or so I read it on the wiki (or the forums).Well it influences some jobs,(most importantly healing) and it also influences the product quality.I wonder how Toady does it. I mean, dwarfs all have personal preferences, ya? They don't really impact the gameplay to the extent it seems one would want in this game, though...
Yeah, I don't think the dwarves preferences are really tied in with the AI. I think it just makes them happy if they happen to use/look at/eat something they like.
That is the personality traits though right? Its not like a dwarf that likes cobalt will make nicer cobalt chairs or seek out cobalt in any way. Unless I'm wrong, in which case that is pretty sweet.
You guys are awesome =D
I actually had a conversation with one of my friends for about an hour where he was telling me about Pharaoh and how the game solves a lot of the problems we're facing. I just bought it. Research must be done!
Honestly, the limit on the detail in character traits is processing power, not the data entry. Every trait modifies the weights of potential objectives for each person, and these computations can get really big the more detail you give a character. We're working on ways of making traits visible to the player as cheaply as possible. We have Top Men working on it.
I demand we be able to harness Cthulhu for tea.Or at least have tea with Cthulu
Guys I think you're getting overexcited again. The stuff you mentioned sounds awesome but there's a point where details start taking away from the gameplay itself (like say in Aurora). Now complex personalities are all fine, fun and dandy but I don't want to have a sims game with 50 sims to manage on top of fighting off evil from beyond the edge of space while also pleasing the Empire.
Just a few general traits like favourite foods, work, locations and some misc stuff would be optimal IMHO. Influencing the persons mood and general choices they make regarding their workplace and home.
Of course you can always have some modifiers on top of that, like sanity, that could spice things up by twisiting someones favourite stuff and how they act if they're denied.
Guys I think you're getting overexcited again. The stuff you mentioned sounds awesome but there's a point where details start taking away from the gameplay itself (like say in Aurora). Now complex personalities are all fine, fun and dandy but I don't want to have a sims game with 50 sims to manage on top of fighting off evil from beyond the edge of space while also pleasing the Empire.
Just a few general traits like favourite foods, work, locations and some misc stuff would be optimal IMHO. Influencing the persons mood and general choices they make regarding their workplace and home.
Of course you can always have some modifiers on top of that, like sanity, that could spice things up by twisiting someones favourite stuff and how they act if they're denied.
This please. Honestly having to visit 8 different screens to figure out if my dorf was a good doctor/leader/fighter was too much.
I am all for having every individual citizen be interesting in their own right but only so long as it A) doesn't greatly increase development time, B) bog down the processor or C) cause me to do extensive research on each of my colonists to make sure the only one I pick to train in research doesn't go insane and blow up the only researchery*.
*I'd like this to be possible, but not driven by some deep seated variables "I should have checked".
While pharaoh was a very nice citybuilder, its number-crunching aspect made it too much of a city building "game" where you plop things to maximize efficiency, instead of a city building "sim" where you can have some more flexibility in favor of aesthetics.
Zeus took some steps away from that by making the path patterns and services needed by each household much more streamlined (without losing the fun, at least for me) with less needed resources per household.
If you ask me, Emperor: RotMK was the epitome of the citybuilders, it struck a nice balance between complexity of the hosehold system and flexibility allowing a good degree of aesthetics.
*snip*
I agree with this, in general. There is one specific element I always felt that Pharaoh was better in and that's the monuments. The Pharaoh giant pyramids made out of thousands of stone blocks always felt more impressive than the Emperor great wall made up of hundreds of loads of dirt. I also really liked the floodplain farming in Pharaoh, but the rest of the food distribution system was improved drastically in Emperor.
What I'm getting at is that is that Clockwork Empires should not neglect the "monuments". Once you have a functioning colony, they are one of the few ways to actually get something cool from your resources. I'd love to be building things like a giant cathedral dedicated to the Holy Cog or a giant obelisk that protects from (or invites, whatever floats your boat!) Cosmic Horrors from Beyond Time and Space.
I think the best monument building was in Children of the Nile.
Blog post today postponed til' tomorrow, as it's somewhat halloween themed.
Wat?I think the best monument building was in Children of the Nile.
Shame the rest of the game was so terrible.
So many good ideas, so poor execution.
That update is hillarious! Did you read the tags? They're pretty funny too!
If these guys continue posting stories like this fairly regularly until release time, I may just be sated.
e: I just realized that I didn't specify any "deliberate player-created artifacts" example in there, just two accidental ones. I can't really think of how you'd be able to DELIBERATELY make an artifact, but it is something to think aboot. :DIf anyone can deliberately create an evil artifact, it's probably us.
Digging will be more abstract. You will be able to place mines to collect resources, and in the current iteration you will be able to improve them, but 3d visualization of what is actually under them will not be visible.When dealing with mines, could you implement some kind of abstracted improvement system based on mineral veins? In a real mine, miners will follow a mineral lode/vein to completion and then do exploratory mining out from there using sensors, or even just random guessing to find a new lode in the area. Instead of just 'click button, mine level 2 now mines 25% more material!" you could have exploratory mining with a chance of finding better lodes, you could have lodes tracked individually with (hidden) amounts of material left in them. Extensive subsurface mining would require more infrastructure, so exploratory mining could increase the upkeep or whatever of the mine. At some point it may be more cost effective to establish a new mine rather than expand an old one. And of course if you want to inject a bit of realism you'd have to deal with the waste products... tonnes of earth and stone, possibly toxic gasses and slag from smelting.
There are a number of things in the Halloween post that will be possible, such as calling in investigators, but like a lot of LPs, some of the details are embellishments that we honestly just couldn't convey in a way that wouldn't be total descriptive overkill (like perhaps the specific details on how the pipes are driving people mad).
The line that we have to draw about exactly how much detail gets described to the player, as I think I've mentioned, has a lot to do with how much we can meaningfully convey to players, and also a lot to do with how much time we can spend on things.
Digging will be more abstract. You will be able to place mines to collect resources, and in the current iteration you will be able to improve them, but 3d visualization of what is actually under them will not be visible.When dealing with mines, could you implement some kind of abstracted improvement system based on mineral veins? In a real mine, miners will follow a mineral lode/vein to completion and then do exploratory mining out from there using sensors, or even just random guessing to find a new lode in the area. Instead of just 'click button, mine level 2 now mines 25% more material!" you could have exploratory mining with a chance of finding better lodes, you could have lodes tracked individually with (hidden) amounts of material left in them. Extensive subsurface mining would require more infrastructure, so exploratory mining could increase the upkeep or whatever of the mine. At some point it may be more cost effective to establish a new mine rather than expand an old one. And of course if you want to inject a bit of realism you'd have to deal with the waste products... tonnes of earth and stone, possibly toxic gasses and slag from smelting.
There are a number of things in the Halloween post that will be possible, such as calling in investigators, but like a lot of LPs, some of the details are embellishments that we honestly just couldn't convey in a way that wouldn't be total descriptive overkill (like perhaps the specific details on how the pipes are driving people mad).
The line that we have to draw about exactly how much detail gets described to the player, as I think I've mentioned, has a lot to do with how much we can meaningfully convey to players, and also a lot to do with how much time we can spend on things.
Just a few ideas.
...the waste products... tonnes of earth and stone, possibly toxic gasses and slag from smelting.
Mine Level 1: Clay/Sand Nodes, low chance of Common Metals like Copper or Iron. 1 Mining Crew/JobDigging will be more abstract. You will be able to place mines to collect resources, and in the current iteration you will be able to improve them, but 3d visualization of what is actually under them will not be visible.When dealing with mines, could you implement some kind of abstracted improvement system based on mineral veins? In a real mine, miners will follow a mineral lode/vein to completion and then do exploratory mining out from there using sensors, or even just random guessing to find a new lode in the area. Instead of just 'click button, mine level 2 now mines 25% more material!" you could have exploratory mining with a chance of finding better lodes, you could have lodes tracked individually with (hidden) amounts of material left in them. Extensive subsurface mining would require more infrastructure, so exploratory mining could increase the upkeep or whatever of the mine. At some point it may be more cost effective to establish a new mine rather than expand an old one. And of course if you want to inject a bit of realism you'd have to deal with the waste products... tonnes of earth and stone, possibly toxic gasses and slag from smelting.
There are a number of things in the Halloween post that will be possible, such as calling in investigators, but like a lot of LPs, some of the details are embellishments that we honestly just couldn't convey in a way that wouldn't be total descriptive overkill (like perhaps the specific details on how the pipes are driving people mad).
The line that we have to draw about exactly how much detail gets described to the player, as I think I've mentioned, has a lot to do with how much we can meaningfully convey to players, and also a lot to do with how much time we can spend on things.
Just a few ideas.
How about having a depth parameter, and every depth level having a certain amount of slots/openings avaible to it. Each of these can contain a mineral vein, or something else. Then you can decide which lodes get priorized, and which not. The deeper you go, the more materials are needed and such.
Which is not quite what I meant.Well, it really depends on how the buildings are gonna be... if the number of mines you can put up is very limited... One two or three, yes, your idea would be way better since such low numbers allows for much more detail per mine.
The amount of workforce needed would be determined by the amount of nodes that you let people work on at the same time.(Best case the nature of these nodes would be determined by the map). Amount of actual workforce will probably be determined by the modules you attach to your mine. Extra elevators, steam pumps and others would be fun.
when crimes are committed by science criminals only science criminals can bring them to justiceSo much win.
I really want mines which are so deep they require forced ventilation and steam-powered elevator systems for the ore.You'd need steam powered water pumps much earlier. Which might lead to a few fun things.
Which is not quite what I meant.Well, it really depends on how the buildings are gonna be... if the number of mines you can put up is very limited... One two or three, yes, your idea would be way better since such low numbers allows for much more detail per mine.
The amount of workforce needed would be determined by the amount of nodes that you let people work on at the same time.(Best case the nature of these nodes would be determined by the map). Amount of actual workforce will probably be determined by the modules you attach to your mine. Extra elevators, steam pumps and others would be fun.
I was thinking along the lines of some of the city builders like... Ceasar and the Pharaoh ones. Being able to put a large number of mines.
All of the win. All of it. I demand that "For Science!" be a legal excuse for everything and thus scientists having full diplomatic and legal immunity.Quote from: those tagswhen crimes are committed by science criminals only science criminals can bring them to justiceSo much win.
What sort of bureaucratic power would any of the peons have this game anyway? I mean. We, the players, have that power. Not the plebs.Sergeant Genre Savvy receives an order to clear out an infestation of shoggoth in the Grand Clockwork Horror. Having been promoted for being the only survivor of the last cleansing of the Grand Clockwork Horror, Sergeant Genre Savvy decides "You know what? I think I'll send some of the new recruits under my command, rather than head out there myself. Maybe that new Jenkins guy who talks too loud, is always smelly, and insulted my gentlemanly mustache."
The military unit organization is not really fleshed out yet. There will be some hierarchical structure to it, with leaders of squads of units, and they will of course carry their own histories which affect their decisions to some degree. The player should be able to promote units as command positions are needed, but I don't think they'll become inherently more powerful as this happens beyond perhaps being preferentially assigned gear if they're combat officers.
The people look.. well.. blocky.
Happy chicken is happy. :PThe people look.. well.. blocky.
Says the guy with the Minecraft avatar. :P
the geometry must flow
getting as much mileage out of that pile of lumber as possible
the nine floating heads of Darwin torment me in my dreams
Quotethe geometry must flow
getting as much mileage out of that pile of lumber as possible
the nine floating heads of Darwin torment me in my dreams
I wish game development was as much fun as it looked.
I hope we will see the fence in-game.
About the mining. Would it be possible to build magma-pumps and pipe it to a steam plant (boiler, whatever) and use it instead of coal? And could you use that steam to power a turbine to make electricity.Generally, yes.
And what would you use electricity for in the game? Is it just for Tesla-coils and the like, or could it be used to power the same things as steam. And if so, what are the advantages/disadvantages over steam power?
And, just for shits and giggles, would it be possible to build a giant thermal powerplant over an active volcano and use it to power the whole continent? (Please say yes)
And last question, I swear. Could you, for example, build two powersaw modules on a sawmill to double the production, or build a boiler module on a steel mill to use the heat from the forges to make steam? (Please Say Yes!)
In truth, if a developement studio could be set up that had something like real-time videos and whatnot of what's going on, with or without narative, alot of people would be glued to their YouTube channel (or equivalant). Although that isn't very pratical. So, once a week updates are alot nicer than what we normally get. 8)Yus. Just find an unemployed liberals arts major with a good radio voice, and hire them to do 8 hour a day dev-streaming. :)
In truth, if a developement studio could be set up that had something like real-time videos and whatnot of what's going on, with or without narative, alot of people would be glued to their YouTube channel (or equivalant). Although that isn't very pratical. So, once a week updates are alot nicer than what we normally get. 8)Yus. Just find an unemployed liberals arts major with a good radio voice, and hire them to do 8 hour a day dev-streaming. :)
Am I going to have to inform the ministry that they're going to have to clear up a cult that worships fences?
hey Daniel will there be beta and alpha testing for clockwork empire ?
Definitely! We hope to have a playable game for people to start trying to crash/break by Feb/March. I'll keep you guys up to date =)
New post! http://www.gaslampgames.com/2012/11/15/its-an-odd-world-after-all/
What will the newspapers look like?They won't look like fences, probably. Though if the publisher goes mad all bets are off.
What will the newspapers look like?They won't look like fences, probably. Though if the publisher goes mad all bets are off.
We're actually still debating the form of "the newspaper". I'm actually arguing against any sort of digest of "the news of the day". I feel that this will motivate people to rely on some canned and probably horribly repetitive verbage for news, because we don't have a programmer working nonstop on a context free grammar AI agent. I'm still jaded by the useless news ticker in Sim City. Rest assured, though, the game will have lots of text, we'll make it as interesting as we can possibly afford, and we're generally considered not bad at that.
IIRC Phlogiston was an element believed to be solely responsible for making stuff burn. The more phlogiston you have in something the better it burns. I'd imagine in this context phlogiston would be a substance extracted from coal, charcoal, or ideally whales, and then refined in either an alchemists workshop for small scale stuff, or a factory for more large scale work. Once refined, the substance is then used for flame thrower style weapons, or maybe even used to power airships, or battlesuits, in a similar way to how we use gasoline today (although I imagine it'd involve more steam).
I honestly have no idea how many steps there will be in steel making yet. I feel confident in telling you that steel will not come out of the ground. I can't give you more information because what we decide regarding these processes is always somewhere between the simplest and the most realistic, but it's very hard to say what will be the most fun without iterating.
Current arguments on the Interchanging Metals Topic suggest that, for our alpha, you'll probably just be able to make any metal thing with any metal. We'll then flesh out which metals make good muskets as we go through, as that's just data entry (but a lot of it). A lot of this process is going to depend on how intuitive we can make a UI as well, as at a certain point the silly choices for materials just make things clunky.
Also you can never have enough pipes! WE NEED MOR PIPESIndeed, we need more morpipes.
This has to be in the game now.Also you can never have enough pipes! WE NEED MOR PIPESIndeed, we need more morpipes.
Morpipes are like morlocks: Strange, twisted pipes that grow underground for inexplicable reasons and occasionally devour the normal pipes you bury in the ground. Your standard morpipe is a five by three length that undulates softly and consumes passerbys with one of its seven gaping maws, but there's many variations of greater and lesser morpipes that have unique biologies (metallurgies?) and peculiar habits unique to their breed.
The naturalists have yet to find any particularly useful means of morpipe exploitation, but the local dockworkers immediately found it unutterably hilarious to toss the more flagrant criminals (and the occasional cultist) into a pit full of starving morpipes and watch the brass and copper fly. Morpipe fights are also a thriving underground betting venue, with the occasional highly successful contender breaking free of its constraints and eating a couple of blocks of the local city before someone manages to melt it into quietly writhing scrap.
Indeed, we need more morpipes.
Morpipes are like morlocks: Strange, twisted pipes that grow underground for inexplicable reasons and occasionally devour the normal pipes you bury in the ground. Your standard morpipe is a five by three length that undulates softly and consumes passerbys with one of its seven gaping maws, but there's many variations of greater and lesser morpipes that have unique biologies (metallurgies?) and peculiar habits unique to their breed.
The naturalists have yet to find any particularly useful means of morpipe exploitation, but the local dockworkers immediately found it unutterably hilarious to toss the more flagrant criminals (and the occasional cultist) into a pit full of starving morpipes and watch the brass and copper fly. Morpipe fights are also a thriving underground betting venue, with the occasional highly successful contender breaking free of its constraints and eating a couple of blocks of the local city before someone manages to melt it into quietly writhing scrap.
All of this sounds exciting, and I hate to be a wet blanket, but alot of this stuff seems sort of sky-high aspirations with ungrounded ideas of how the devs plan to implement all this stuff. I think you guys need to really sit down and hammer out some solid gameplay ideas before you go on about soil moisture levels and humidity fluctuation and all that jazz. The roleplaying stuff that you guys did with the haunted coffin was great, I'd really like to see you guys do that sort of stuff again and eliminate things which you think will be impossible or take too much time to implement.
I don't think anyone REALLY wants to hear the fundamental underpinnings of game design and coding.I actually do like hearing about that sort of stuff :P, but you're right. If the devs really broke down into programmer speak when talking about their game it'd make the blog a whole lot more boring. The abstraction is nice when you don't want to wade through piles of code to get to the fun bits. I guess it does make more sense to tell people what you're doing differently from other games rather than going over the same material. (the exception being the comparisons to older games of the same genre)
Pretty sure this is not the world of Dredmor.
there was no clockwork update last Wednesday im not happy :P
There may be some way to actually find out what they need, we're still playing with ways to represent the general "goings on" of groups of characters. The issue comes down to UI clutter, really.
It actually isn't too far of a stretch, if you think about it. The Clockwork Empire has the standard worship of the Holy Cog, right? The other factions/nations should be able to have their own religions. The only difference between a 'Cult' and a religion is how wide-spread and accepted it is on a large scale. So if you (the player/Beauracrat) can gain enough credibility or likeness with other groups, should have the option of joining one of the other cultures/religions and mandating that as your cities religion. Not everyone has to agree, btu what are they going to do to stop it?
Not everyone has to agree, btu what are they going to do to stop it?
Oh, okay, I should have prefaced that a bit I think. We aren't actually generating a whitelist of all possible traits and using those specifically to determine behaviors. You're right, we would need an enormous list for it to feel at all simulation-like.
These traits are just descriptive shortcuts, and each character has a large array of underlying numerical values. For example, Foolishly Brave is just a trait shorthand for:
Tends not to acquire fears
Tends to ignore fears
Happier when involved in combat
Liked by military characters
We have a baseline for what a character would want to do in any given circumstance, and those decisions are weighted by the traits that we assign them. Their traits will be somewhat separate from their technical capacity at any given task: you'll have some people who just love to build guns but are terrible at it. (This won't be a huge issue because people are naturally happy doing things they're good at, but it could happen.)
No. No, no, no.
Somehow, I imagine that the Gaslamp devs want to include something other than an endless stream of Dwarf Fortress memes and references. Come up with some half-decent ideas.
The "Citizen of the 12th bay" idea of sebcool caused me to come up with this variation for it:
Bay12er/Bay Watcher - Above avearge skills in all areas, but will form cults whenever possible.
Thanks guys! Actually a lot of the general stuff matches up pretty well with our internal list, which is a good sign, I think. The literary descriptors are really cool, but the game isn't the real world so the context would be a bit weird. Still, there's a bunch of strangeness in those guys' lives to get inspiration from so I'll read some more biographies. =)
As far as coming up with a bay 12 trait, we'll think of something. We are all for writing in subtle references to the games we love, so I'm sure it'll happen, I just can't tell you what it will be yet.
Man, we're so close to having something playable. I can't wait.
Man, we're so close to having something playable. I can't wait.
Man, we're so close to having something playable. I can't wait.
Does this mean an alpha release looms nigh? :o
You'd basically have to get a job doing QA for them, and that basically means, take everything that is fun in computer games, remove them from computer games, and triple everything that is left. Plus meetings, to the power of having to write an essay every time it crashes.
You'd basically have to get a job doing QA for them, and that basically means, take everything that is fun in computer games, remove them from computer games, and triple everything that is left. Plus meetings, to the power of having to write an essay every time it crashes.
I'm too lazy to look up the exact quote, but Daniel has specifically stated in this thread that there will be alpha releases. Look through his posts yourself if you don't believe me.
gather the bees and smear them over your body
next week: the Clockwork Empires personality test for Livejournal
I don't go within 100 miles of tumblrSame.
I recall a Terry Pratchett book included a brief glimpse into the field of Reverse Phrenology. You'll recall that basic Phrenology is the study of how personality traits change the shapes of the head; Reverse Phrenology applies this in a therapeutic way, and in fact has been supported by modern science.
We would also like to remind all readers that when a message is "sent" to a distant location by heliograph, it is not, in fact, sent bodily flying through the air, but rather copied, as it were, to the destination. Thus, it is not essential that the memorandum be returned after reading, and, in fact, you may request that the heligraphographer speed the letter back to you after transmission. And no, we cannot "heliograph them some blank paper in case they don't have any".http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliograph
I recall a Terry Pratchett book included a brief glimpse into the field of Reverse Phrenology. You'll recall that basic Phrenology is the study of how personality traits change the shapes of the head; Reverse Phrenology applies this in a therapeutic way, and in fact has been supported by modern science.Oh Pratchett, you so silly.
It's well known that head injury can change personality, after all.
Remind me again, will we be able to drain lakes and dam rivers?... sink in the New World?
Eh, what about terraforming in general?
Like, draining a lake and then filling it with dirt and gravel to make a field for houses/crops/tree-farm/the-hell-of-it? :3
Unless we have the ability to replace population workers with say, steam-driven robotics or cult-controlled golemns? Mwhahahaha.
Unless we have the ability to replace population workers with say, steam-driven robotics or cult-controlled golemns? Mwhahahaha.
Likely.
Cease your auditory output and accept my units of currency!Unless we have the ability to replace population workers with say, steam-driven robotics or cult-controlled golemns? Mwhahahaha.
Likely.
the overseer will oversee if he wants to retain the polygons for his eyeballsI think I can honestly state that the tags are the best part of these blog posts.
Djohaal, the devs have already said that while they are rendering the current graphics with what is already in place, it is not how the final release is going to be. They are still working on large aprts of the rendering software; so visual effects, particles, antialiasing, gamma correction and the rest are still being added. They're just trying to get all the assets in so they can then work on making it look 'pretty'. :P
So long as it has the features who cares about graphics :P I would take civ 3 graphics for deeper gameplay any dayCivilization Three? You must be spoiled by these fancy new games.
So long as it has the features who cares about graphics :P I would take civ 3 graphics for deeper gameplay any dayCivilization Three? You must be spoiled by these fancy new games.
The graphics can be second rate, or even old school pixel, so long as the gameplay is complex, indepth, and utterly awesome. 8)
Minecraft's graphics are simple. That doesn't mean however that stock mojang textures aren't ugly as hell. :P
But... i actually like the default minecraft textures..This...
Our lighting is still very much in-progress. We will have all sorts of those newfangled whiz-bangs that they have in Diablo 3 and whatnot. Thankfully adding some of these rendering processes is actually quite simple, as they're solved and documented problems, or we wouldn't put too much effort into it.well i for one would like a game i could run on a laptop integrated gfx card, so i'm hoping all of that would be optional
Currently, it's likely that there will be a pipe system for distributing certain commodities, and we're likely to use an agent-based system, similar to the one that SimCity uses for garbage traveling along their roads. Since the system is entirely secondary to just having units carry commodities, we haven't had time to test it yet so who knows, but I think our current vision of the system is a great one.
It's not generation that's the issue, I think. But the movement for like, lake-draining and river damming.What of the movement for Artifact-infusing the water? ;)
New blarg post up yesterday about deaths and such. Game looks done to me! Shipping time.
Although, on the topic of the last post, only one bit of equipment per squad sounds. Uh. Bad. One cannon per squad or something would be fine, but where do they draw the line I am wondering. Steam armor is shown to be a one per squad thing as well, which seems exceedingly odd to me. Does this mean that soldiers are going to be using basically the same equipment for the whole game? That you can never achieve well equip squads? No clockwork knight brigades?
It's a interesting choice if they are actually making it how they seem to be, and I think it is the wrong one perhaps.
we're just trying to mitigate the amount of management that players require.
military strategy game. Maybe for the next game :DDiggle Wars: The Tunnelificating?
Dwemer Fortress?
Me gusta, senior. (pardon my extremely bastardized Spanish)
Dwemer Fortress?
Me gusta, senior. (pardon my extremely bastardized Spanish)
Well hey there. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=83992.0)
I was really annoyed about the lack of coffee too, but the ads are just awesome.
Just sending out a little PTW message. Hopefully there'll be some news about this in a couple of months.
So, as a few of you guys have mentioned in this thread, we have a development blog that we post to on a weekly basis. Should I post links to the updates when they come up?
I haven't been doing this because, well, Bay12 is a game company forum that isn't ours, and I don't know how people feel about it, but I realized that it would be more productive to just ask and see what you think. :)
So, as a few of you guys have mentioned in this thread, we have a development blog that we post to on a weekly basis. Should I post links to the updates when they come up?
I haven't been doing this because, well, Bay12 is a game company forum that isn't ours, and I don't know how people feel about it, but I realized that it would be more productive to just ask and see what you think. :)
Had one of those weeks where working on one thing found issues in another, and 3 days later everything was broken. It's all fixed now though! Still, I wasn't able to get any of the character behavior stuff done that I really wanted to, so I sulked around the office doing paperwork while the guys worked on other stuff. So that leaves us with a post on debugging! YES!
Nicholas wrote up this post about implementing academic papers and debugging using obscure file formats, and we posted it while starving and overly caffeinated during a road trip to Washington in a rental car. The rock star life of a game developer, ladies and gentlemen.
http://www.gaslampgames.com/2013/10/16/how-to-debug-an-exploding-building/
Had one of those weeks where working on one thing found issues in another, and 3 days later everything was broken.Story. Of. My. Life.
Had one of those weeks where working on one thing found issues in another, and 3 days later everything was broken.Story. Of. My. Life.
Puzzlemaker: Yeah, that's the idea. The rules get complicated when you have buildings with "nodes" that are connected, as there are more cases than you'd think there would be for merging large pyramidal sections.
Been watching this gem since they annocunced it, hmm have they stated any "when is it ready"?If you've been watching, then you would know, yes?
We'll be announcing some stuff pretty soon, thanks for being patient guys.
What he's really saying:Been watching this gem since they annocunced it, hmm have they stated any "when is it ready"?If you've been watching, then you would know, yes?
We'll be announcing some stuff pretty soon, thanks for being patient guys.
But what are you releasing? A video? Plush dolls? Source code!?!?
What he's really saying:Been watching this gem since they annocunced it, hmm have they stated any "when is it ready"?If you've been watching, then you would know, yes?
"I'm too lazy to go read stuff, so please summarize all of the changes since announcement and feed them to my lazy gob."
We'll be announcing some stuff pretty soon, thanks for being patient guys.
Finally, an update about gameplay! I swear we're basically done with the "let's make that rendering prettier" stage for a while. We can get back to what matters: simulated social behavior.Well it looks like somebody is a fan of saws.
http://www.gaslampgames.com/2013/10/23/brief-frontier-simulation-update/
Spent the day reading up on marxist labor theories of value. I have no idea what effect this will have on our game.
Spent the day reading up on marxist labor theories of value. I have no idea what effect this will have on our game.
Yeah! The music and sound effects are in full swing actually. We've written a dynamic music system, where @zath has written several layers of music for each track, each one representing a different sense of tone, such as progress, battle, insanity. The game keeps track of the events in the settlement and chooses which most important few layers of music should be played based on what's happening.
It felt like the right time to put together a teaser trailer with some of the stuff we've been working on. Check it out! Now I can sleep forever.
(Also the new site has screenshots)
http://clockworkempires.com/
WHEN next spring though? You can pry that from my cold dead brain.
maybe...
i dont see any info on a release date on the site. any ideas?
((Though that's certainly not official.))
HMMMMMM... I'm removing that from the site, but suffice it to say, that something will probably happen spring 2014. Damnit, PR and shit. We're no good at this, we just want to make fake people have lovers' quarrels!
Edit: on second thought, whatever, screw it, yes, you will be able to play it sometime next spring. WHEN next spring though? You can pry that from my cold dead brain.
PTW, looks like a slightly morefleshed out(bad wordage) user friendly Dorf Fort, with hilarious random encounters. When that person dug up the idol it seemed exactly like something my dwarves would do.
"What's this black thing? Why was it in a cemetery? Whatever, I should put it on my kitchen table."
Well, at one point neither did DF. Them pesky Z-levels, I tells ya.
... Most of my forts are above ground.A different style of play for different people.
You're supposed to put roofs on your buildings. :I\
I love above-ground forts, but building constructions higher than a few z-levels are hell. DF really needs some kind of auto-scaffold implementation for adding constructions in places where your dwarves can't normally reach. Otherwise it's b>C>f, b>C>w, remove construction, b>C>w etc. Too time consuming and then your mason gets stuck inside a wall and akljaskldjaskldfjask your fortress has crumbled to its end.
Step 1
###
<# #
###
Step 2
+++
>+ +(<---Can now build all roofing needed from edges)
+++
"Higher than a few z-levels", man.Leave a gap in the wall. Ramp on outside of wall. Wall on outside of wall. Done. Easy. Tear down in reverse order and finish the permanent wall.
The first level roof is simple. It's when you have 3+ stories that the final roof is a bitch.
Spent the day reading up on marxist labor theories of value. I have no idea what effect this will have on our game.
Interesting stuff.Yeah, DF doesn't go over the entirety of the steel creation, but you have to admit that it's more advanced than about 80% of the other game's steel creation process. I can think of a couple of games off the top of my head that have "Throw some iron and coal into a furnace," mechanics to make steel.
But as someone who made a mod to specifically expand on DF's ironworks and steel industry to make it more realistic I feel I must point out that Dwarf Fortress only simulates a small portion of what is required to go from iron to steel. And a fairly advanced version at that.
Also, could we leave the mines as they are? Mines that set people on fire just seem dwarfy. :P
From Something AwfulQuoteYou specify a blueprint on the ground. You tag each wall with a "profile", which designates the building material and the profile of the roof. We then automatically extrude the building based on this. End result: you choose what the building looks like. (Then you stick decorations and gameplay elements on it, hook it to the Steam Pipes, etc.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhX79At0vng <-- this is not our system, but this is somebody else's implementation of the same algorithm we use. Ours does texturing, which his does not. So, yeah. Basically, if you want all your buildings to be octagonal Gothic Cathedrals, we'll accomodate you. If you just want to plunk down square megaliths, we got you covered. Want all your urchins to live in large, faux-Japanese pagodas? Got you covered. It's *very* cool stuff, and I'm really excited to be using it.
It'd be kinda awesome to see something as being worth 5 hours and 29 minutes of time, even better if it's 5 hours and 29 minutes of Aristocrat time (equivalent to maybe 2-3 times that much 'commoner' time). Hell, you could even intentionally fudge the numbers a bit by random, with the severity decreasing as and when you develop better methods of timekeeping.
#\$$ $$/#
##\$ $/##
###\___/###
Or maybe barricades instead, if trenches turn out to be too much of a PAIN?
I'm pretty sure we'll have trenches. We just have to, uh, create an algorithm to solve a really big, stupid linear algebra problem using our fixed point math system in a way that doesn't take 10 minutes. This is what we do to bring you the muddiest of subterranean combats!
(EDIT: I guess that isn't really subterranean is it. Well, they're trenches, whatever.)
Terrain is deformable, technically. We have some limits on just how deformable, though, because the perspective of the camera is isometric, and if height differentials are too big, bits of the terrain get hidden behind higher structures, and that's really aggravating.
The thought of using objects to "fill in" trenches has been discussed, it's an option, but it would be a bit cleaner if it weren't necessary.
Oh! For the people who asked for links to the blog posts, here's today's. As previously mentioned, it's about trenches.
http://www.gaslampgames.com/2013/11/13/combat-2-son-of-combat/
(Update: turns out we don't actually need to solve a "really horrible" math problem! Our previous solution actually looks really good if we tweak it a bit.)
Really we have Canada to thank for giving us tax credits for doing weird experimental stuff to make simulations run faster on newer architectures.
Just got characters in-game to recognize each other as made of meat. Good day.
No :( There's honestly not a lot of motivation to chase those sorts of things to improve performance, not at this point in the project, and not unless you're obsessing over speeds the way that really competitive games do. And those guys hoard their secrets these days. Nicholas and Micah spend a lot of time mangling the C++ compiler which is interesting though. Really we have Canada to thank for giving us tax credits for doing weird experimental stuff to make simulations run faster on newer architectures. Honestly, I'm somewhat convinced that you'll be seeing a lot of these methods in other games in the next 5-10 years.
Just got characters in-game to recognize each other as made of meat. Good day.
You could use the newspaper thingy to illustrate complicated event chains like this.
Yeah, I just kind of want people to have to dig a little bit to find out what's going on, but not so much that they won't ever find out. Plus it would be weird if it showed up in the paper before they were caught, you know?
I'll figure something out.
And you could also throw in some red herrings. Talk about a cow disease outbreak or something, so when people who ate meat pies go crazy, you think "Oh, they got some sort of disease from infected meat!", but instead it's because the meat is made out of humans and you'd have to notice that not -everyone- who eats it goes crazy, it's only the meat-pie eaters and not other meat-product eaters, and it dies off as only the people who see it made go crazy.Then again, one of the only ways in which eating a human meat pie can make humans go crazy is a sort of prion disease, like BSE. There's no biological reason for humans to go insane when eating human meatpies. (Unless, of course, the colony happened to be placed on the location of a former cannibalistic cult, but those rumors have proven to be completely bonkers.)
Is it the act of eating human meat, or knowing that they ate human meat. Would be nice if it was the latter, as that could suddenly lead to mass insanity inducing food scandals.
Yup, I expect the reactions to be:Is it the act of eating human meat, or knowing that they ate human meat. Would be nice if it was the latter, as that could suddenly lead to mass insanity inducing food scandals.
Or some very scary scenarios where eldrich abominations take over the kitchen and teach everyone how to serve mankind.
Yeah, that would be a way of making the paper interesting, for sure. Truth be told, though, I'm actually not sold on the newspaper idea. It has some really interesting benefits like being nicely period-appropriate and giving players a digest of information, but it's either going to be so effective that players will read the paper instead of watching the game, or ineffective enough that no one will read it.
One of the ideas that i DO think is interesting to try, that we came up with as a compromise, is having "reports" that are generated by specific professional offices that you can construct, where you have a phrenologist and a physician and so forth, and they go about besetting your colonists with "exams", and their reports could have useful information in them. It has a nice bonus of breaking up the information into bits that the player specifically requests, and it makes reading these things more character focused, which is important to us.
We also had the idea that geological reports for mining could be compiled in the same way, showing 2d "paper" representations of progress in the mines and so forth. Sadly, not a lot of work has been done on the mining simulation yet, as we've been focusing on getting the economics and combat in a good state lately.
not using madness inducing fonts such as comic sans?
I don't even know what's going on over here anymore. This is more like our work day than you might suspect:
http://www.gaslampgames.com/2013/11/20/the-codebase-of-elemental-evil/
I don't even know what's going on over here anymore. This is more like our work day than you might suspect:
http://www.gaslampgames.com/2013/11/20/the-codebase-of-elemental-evil/
Are you talking about succession forts, or was there an application that let multiple computers control (to whatever degree) a single DF instance?
Oh, I remember reading an article about this where there was a huge segment about pipes. Seems pretty entertaining, kind of wondering why I didn't already PTW.
Signed up too. Love seeing the obelisk squid/octopus (I have no clue what it is exactly other than some other dimensional shit).
Also, spreading madness.....
New blog post, we talked a bit about video card compatibility and testing, and you get a glimpse into the horrific void that Mr. Adams had the foresight to avoid almost entirely.
http://www.gaslampgames.com/2013/11/27/the-joys-of-video-card-compatibility/
Tagged attacking the darkness, clockwork empires, crash what crash, david is on vacation this week so we get to do programmer art which is basically just anything you can make with the flood fill tool, next week we turn combat back on again, programming, secret industry shame, the blackness has come to new sogwood, the predator-esque graphics programmer tradition of displaying defeated video cards in a shoe box on your desk, video card drivers what video card drivers
QuoteTagged attacking the darkness, clockwork empires, crash what crash, david is on vacation this week so we get to do programmer art which is basically just anything you can make with the flood fill tool, next week we turn combat back on again, programming, secret industry shame, the blackness has come to new sogwood, the predator-esque graphics programmer tradition of displaying defeated video cards in a shoe box on your desk, video card drivers what video card drivers
Consistently the best Devblog out there.
There was also an exciting moment when I had to install new video card drivers on the laptop, a process which I couldn’t do because the newest Intel drivers were not signed by Hewlett-Packard. Hewlett-Packard last signed drivers in, uh, 2012. Instead, I needed to unzip the drivers, attempt to manually install them, deal with the fact that Windows 7 insisted that the drivers from 2012 were newer than the drivers from 2013, completely uninstall the drivers from 2012, and then re-manually-install the new drivers.
Did... Did you just post in comic sans?
... Are you trying to get killed?! D:
I don't even know what's going on over here anymore. This is more like our work day than you might suspect:
http://www.gaslampgames.com/2013/11/20/the-codebase-of-elemental-evil/
How did I miss the existence of this thread?
(Don't attempt to answer that. Down that path lies ... well I was going to say madness but you all run towards madness as if it was made from chocolate and puppies. Just forget I said anything.)
On the topic of newspapers and other such things printed on mostly-dead wood pulp, I think postmortem reports after the colony's eventual demise might have the best potential. It lets you dive into more detail without being concerned that you are providing too much information. (Kind of like the legends interface in DF)
It almost always gets in the way, and you would rather nerve staple them all and have them work forever with no rest than let them have a good time. I get it, I’ve been there.
I rambled a little this morning, and David drew a picture of admiral ackbar:
http://www.gaslampgames.com/2013/12/04/you-take-the-story-and-you-put-it-in-the-economic-simulator/
You also have the aspect that people without work to do get uppity quite quickly (since they're not getting paid), so there is a disincentive to abuse any mechanics that'll leave too many people underutilized for long.
The characters don't get paid, per se. I spent a fair chunk of last night thinking about why that is after someone in the comments mentioned it, and wrote a response on the blog to why we're not doing that (which is here (http://www.gaslampgames.com/2013/12/04/you-take-the-story-and-you-put-it-in-the-economic-simulator/comment-page-1/#comment-37649) )
There are a whole wack of great story-driving outcomes of characters, i'm so taking suggestions for this.
The characters don't get paid, per se. I spent a fair chunk of last night thinking about why that is after someone in the comments mentioned it, and wrote a response on the blog to why we're not doing that (which is here (http://www.gaslampgames.com/2013/12/04/you-take-the-story-and-you-put-it-in-the-economic-simulator/comment-page-1/#comment-37649) )
There are a whole wack of great story-driving outcomes of characters, i'm so taking suggestions for this.
So long as they have some sort of "stop partying and get to work this is really important" function then free time seems like it would be interesting to have. An example of this not being a thing is Dwarf Fortress. I think every DF player knows the creeping frustration of a broker who has a party after a drink after eating after sleeping and misses the entire window of opportunity to trade. Just some sort of "discipline" action that makes the person more disgruntled but they'll get to work would be okay, I think.
Yeah, I agree, when everything is going horribly wrong, it would be nice if you could have a "COME WITH ME IF YOU WANT TO LIVE" sort of thing. There should still be a chance that they're too upset to listen, but in most cases it should work. That's the current plan.
What about a cycle-based system? Everyone knows about first, second, and third shift regiments, eight-hour work segments that separate the day into three roughly equal parts. You could do the same thing in the game. Work -> Free Time -> Sleep and repeat. Then, you could have preference based on work preference and character traits. Early risers would probably be good to go at First shift, while night owls would work third (night) shift. And on top of that you could have it tied to the trait system for more specific things like 'Lazy', 'Work-a-Holic', 'Slow Mover' and all the others you could think of. It would provide a good balance of keeping action going throughout an entire game day.
P.S., Thirdshift could become a workshift only once you got good ol' fashion lighting going on.
And if all else fails, just set the orphans on fire. They can work through it.
A big technical status update on what's actually going on in here.
http://www.gaslampgames.com/2013/12/11/december-technical-status-update-santa-quaggaroth-is-coming-to-town/
A big technical status update on what's actually going on in here.
http://www.gaslampgames.com/2013/12/11/december-technical-status-update-santa-quaggaroth-is-coming-to-town/
santa-quaggaroth-is-coming-to-town
You beat me to it! Sickness has been affecting the gaslamp offices this past week: https://twitter.com/dgbaumgart/status/414084842913951744
You beat me to it! Sickness has been affecting the gaslamp offices this past week: https://twitter.com/dgbaumgart/status/414084842913951744
No Christmas cheer at all in that photo - where were the Santa hats?
You beat me to it! Sickness has been affecting the gaslamp offices this past week: https://twitter.com/dgbaumgart/status/414084842913951744
No Christmas cheer at all in that photo - where were the Santa hats?
Ha! My comic sans newspaper is creating more madness! SUCCESS!!
Technically a lot of technological advancements were created by accident, rather than being thought out . Also, education is not really nessecairy for success*.
*Example being a crucial improvement made to the steam pump, where a child tied a lever to the pressure meter, and automated the pump (Thereby eliminating his own job, and that of countless others).
Technically a lot of technological advancements were created by accident, rather than being thought out . Also, education is not really nessecairy for success*.Yes, but a educated person can create something better than a uneducated one. A educated person could say, make a fridge better than a uneducated one.
*Example being a crucial improvement made to the steam pump, where a child tied a lever to the pressure meter, and automated the pump (Thereby eliminating his own job, and that of countless others).
Yeah, but then the player's next colony would have that technology too. Eventually they would just have all the techs.
Yeah, but then the player's next colony would have that technology too. Eventually they would just have all the techs.
That doesn't necessarily follow. The Romans had concrete and used it extensively. After the Roman Empire collapsed, it was mostly forgotten in the west until the 1600's or so, if I remember right.
And the Romans weren't offed by eldrich abominations. So just because your colony has this new tech doesn't mean it will be absorbed permanently into world technological progress.
Well, if you invent something like an improved hammer and several in-game years pass without the colony being destroyed, it's quite possible that the technology will have spread, especially if you start exporting those hammers. If you invent a new type of boiler two days before the trees start weeping and everybody gets this strange urge to go deep into the woods and the colony is never heard from again, well, it's not unreasonable to assume that the new boiler design doesn't spread.
Well, if you invent something like an improved hammer and several in-game years pass without the colony being destroyed, it's quite possible that the technology will have spread, especially if you start exporting those hammers. If you invent a new type of boiler two days before the trees start weeping and everybody gets this strange urge to go deep into the woods and the colony is never heard from again, well, it's not unreasonable to assume that the new boiler design doesn't spread.
True, but remember there has to be at least some level of irrationality in games, or it becomes more like life and there's no reason to play any more :)
Again, the Roman example. They were using concrete for hundreds of years, *many* hundreds. Maybe even a thousand years. Then the Roman Empire went poof, and so did the knowledge of concrete, for hundreds more years until people started figuring it out again.
Perhaps you could have different groups of research you could choose to actively research,like steam based contraptions or elder witch sciences that could have different risks for each group.
Perhaps you could have different groups of research you could choose to actively research,like steam based contraptions or elder witch sciences that could have different risks for each group.
Building on this (and I know this would be a lot of hand-work but I'm throwing it out anyway), what about a series of "colonial foundation" decisions that crop up from time to time due to random events or circumstances that affect all future developments at that colony?
For example: Jonas Cogswaggle is a Filthy Poet who finds an eldritch altar in the woods. The altar is inlaid with arcane designs that bewitch the eye and confound the mind.Spoiler: Choose your response: (click to show/hide)
Eventually every colony would be churning out unique stuff according to the location and overseer's playstyle, without having to make a standard tech-tree. Just pick from the list of random events and let players do as they wish, or not.
Eventually every colony would be churning out unique stuff according to the location and overseer's playstyle, without having to make a standard tech-tree. Just pick from the list of random events and let players do as they wish, or not.
I like this idea. It could create a much more emergent gameplay style if it was done properly.
We might try testing the concept of the characters choosing the techs, it's a neat opportunity to, again, tie the game's momentum to managing which people you put in charge is interesting, but we might end up not doing it if we can't clearly associate the choice of putting a specific person in charge to the sorts of research you get.
New blog post up, we either had too much coffee or not enough: [edit: this is not a new problem]
http://www.gaslampgames.com/2014/01/22/what-we-learned-at-steam-dev-days/
We might try testing the concept of the characters choosing the techs, it's a neat opportunity to, again, tie the game's momentum to managing which people you put in charge is interesting, but we might end up not doing it if we can't clearly associate the choice of putting a specific person in charge to the sorts of research you get.You had enough coffee, however you needed more hats.
New blog post up, we either had too much coffee or not enough: [edit: this is not a new problem]
http://www.gaslampgames.com/2014/01/22/what-we-learned-at-steam-dev-days/
We might try testing the concept of the characters choosing the techs, it's a neat opportunity to, again, tie the game's momentum to managing which people you put in charge is interesting, but we might end up not doing it if we can't clearly associate the choice of putting a specific person in charge to the sorts of research you get.You had enough coffee, however you needed more hats.
New blog post up, we either had too much coffee or not enough: [edit: this is not a new problem]
http://www.gaslampgames.com/2014/01/22/what-we-learned-at-steam-dev-days/
I'm knee deep in small business accounting this week, so David wrote a post talking about the naming system he and I have been warring over / iterating on:Will we have procedurally named horrors from beyond?
http://www.gaslampgames.com/2014/01/29/the-power-of-names/
I'm knee deep in small business accounting this week, so David wrote a post talking about the naming system he and I have been warring over / iterating on:
http://www.gaslampgames.com/2014/01/29/the-power-of-names/
“Das Maschinengroßherzogtum Stahlmark”
Doors are good things to put on buildings.
Probably not going to mention this more than once due to shameless self promotion and all that, but we have a mailing list that we very carefully use to only send you stuff you're interested in, and the emails about new blog posts are themselves weird and pretty entertaining.
Also you can sign up to be on the testing list, so there's that too.
http://glg.me/mailinglist
You're all reading and contributing to the lovely hematite poetry in today's blog post comments, right?
You're all reading and contributing to the lovely hematite poetry in today's blog post comments, right?
We're just dealing with the naming stuff actually! We will do inherited surnames from a parent, and maybe even a framework for inheriting given names (aka Henry III etc) for the aristocrats.
We're running into interesting things right now where, while the framework isn't actually official, we'll run into people with the same surname and try to figure out if they're married or siblings, and it adds a lot to the game.
Need to help push along the neat ways for people to envision their own stories when you have the chance :)
If the data isn't terribly complex, it could be fun to be able to choose to watch the life of any character from arrival to death (or departure if that is possible) Basically show everything from the eyes of one character. This would allow community game players to see what their namesake characters have been doing.
Random number generation doesn't exist, IIRC. I mean, every computer based random system is a sufficiently advanced algorithm which generates pseudorandom numbers.>2014
Random number generation doesn't exist, IIRC. I mean, every computer based random system is a sufficiently advanced algorithm which generates pseudorandom numbers.
Either way, there is no functional difference to the player, and this way we don't have to mail you radioactive substances if you buy the game.
...it’d be silly to put all of that in one file so I didn’t have to have four frickin’ tabs open, one on one half of each screen across two monitors, to sort out what in the name of Quag’garoth is going on when my bloody work crew won’t make bloody stone bricks out of the rhyolite I painstakingly mined from a devolving oreNode. That’d be too easy. It must be hard. Difficulty is pain and Art is Pain.
Is it bad the first thing I thought was "Wow, there's going to be bipedal [hopefully intelligent] fish people?!"If you were actually surprised at the human meat thing, then yes, it was a bad thing. Otherwise, yes, that was my first thought too!
Is it bad the first thing I thought was "Wow, there's going to be bipedal [hopefully intelligent] fish people?!"Yeah, people communicating in english usually read/view multipart images letf-to-right, so the pleasing fact that humans are not made out of vacuum should have been noticed before the fact that fish-people are also made of something ;-)
Instead of "Wait, we can make human meat?"
If I can't have a thriving trade in human meat I will be very disappointedWell, humans grow slowly, and being able to mass-produce them might kill some aspects of the game. For me, some mechanics to stage accidents and other ways of making people disappear without raising too much suspiction (and, of course, being able to choose whom to convert to meat chunks/blocks in times of hunger) would seem much more appropriate.
Given that humans are so slow to grow, weedy, and high-maintenance I imagine that they would be a luxury product.Well, they grow pretty quickly at first. It's just that after the initial growth spurt their growth slows down. So babies would be a much more economical method of obtaining human meat than full grown adults.
I find it hilarious how casually this is being discussed. On any forum other than Bay12 people would be freaking out at this. Dwarf Fortress has made us terrible people :P
Given that humans are so slow to grow, weedy, and high-maintenance I imagine that they would be a luxury product.Well, they grow pretty quickly at first. It's just that after the initial growth spurt their growth slows down. So babies would be a much more economical method of obtaining human meat than full grown adults.
I find it hilarious how casually this is being discussed. On any forum other than Bay12 people would be freaking out at this. Dwarf Fortress has made us terrible people :P
Not really, a [reasonable] bit of desensitization never hurt anybody. A lot of people should at least digest the fact that when they eat meat, they are participating in the slaughter of animal. Had they had the guts to do it themselves (not possible in cities, but the hypocrisy part stays valid), the animal would have probably suffered less.Probably not really. Most western slaughterhouses have very high standards in how painlessly they kill animals.
Not really, a [reasonable] bit of desensitization never hurt anybody. A lot of people should at least digest the fact that when they eat meat, they are participating in the slaughter of animal. Had they had the guts to do it themselves (not possible in cities, but the hypocrisy part stays valid), the animal would have probably suffered less.Probably not really. Most western slaughterhouses have very high standards in how painlessly they kill animals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slaughterhouse#Animal_welfare_concerns (WARNING: even when not very explicit, it is not pretty).
This section's representation of one or more viewpoints about a controversial issue may be unbalanced or inaccurate.
Also, young meat should be tastier, so yeah, definitely luxury product. But you can't put baby meat products into game you are intending to sell (unless it is from iron-age finland ;-).I don't know, I think that video-game censorship has declined a bit, I mean sure Bethesda makes children invincible in TeS, but I think that's for different reasons as to why children were removed completely from Fallout for UK release.
Or can you ? (hint, hint ;) ;) ;))
Right now i'm trying to convince characters not to form romantic relationships with *every other character*.But senpai-kun they are made for each other ~~~~~~
Precariously balancing the needs of the many and the few here :P New blog posts every Wednesday!
There are plans for vehicles, but we are trying to not fall victim to usual-ness. Lots of vehicle code is getting written this week, and I'm sure you'll hear about that stuff soon.
Right now i'm trying to convince characters not to form romantic relationships with *every other character*.
What you do with your LUA code on your own time is none of my business
Precariously balancing the needs of the many and the few here :P New blog posts every Wednesday!
There are plans for vehicles, but we are trying to not fall victim to usual-ness. Lots of vehicle code is getting written this week, and I'm sure you'll hear about that stuff soon.
Right now i'm trying to convince characters not to form romantic relationships with *every other character*.
Today I went to Gaslamp Games and played about half an hour of an early version of CE.
Today I went to Gaslamp Games and played about half an hour of an early version of CE. For only $1 I will allow you all to form a line to touch me briefly, above the waist only please.
Today I went to Gaslamp Games and played about half an hour of an early version of CE. For only $1 I will allow you all to form a line to touch me briefly, above the waist only please.
Today I went to Gaslamp Games and played about half an hour of an early version of CE. For only $1 I will allow you all to form a line to touch me briefly, above the waist only please.
Can confirm, will deny EVERYTHING ELSE
Link for the un-newslettered (http://www.gaslampgames.com/2014/03/05/pickle-that-fungus/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+GaslampGames+%28Gaslamp+Games+Blog%29)
I also want to take this opportunity to blame Nicholas for thinking you were from somethingawful and not from bay 12. His note-taking skills are legendary.I'm on both actually, I don't think I mentioned Bay12 in my email
What made me special is I emailed Nicholas like a year ago telling him I was available to playtest if they needed help, and mentioning my forums membership at Something Awful (Where they gathered much of their early testers on Dredmor as well)Today I went to Gaslamp Games and played about half an hour of an early version of CE. For only $1 I will allow you all to form a line to touch me briefly, above the waist only please.
Can confirm, will deny EVERYTHING ELSE
Wait, so where is Gaslamp Games located and why is he so special?
Edit: Also, todays blogpost is about fungus, XML, and LUA. Hooray for the boring parts of game development! They pave the way for fun!
Basically forum people are our people. We wander the plains of the internet, grazing on your arguments about game mechanics.
Well if there's any hint as to what their development meetings are usually like, it normally involves a knife fight or two to get them to agree to something.*Good sir!
*There's a comic strip somewhere that I can't find the URL for that has them knife fighting and it's driving me crazy that I can't find it.
Well if there's any hint as to what their development meetings are usually like, it normally involves a knife fight or two to get them to agree to something.*
*There's a comic strip somewhere that I can't find the URL for that has them knife fighting and it's driving me crazy that I can't find it.
I am interested in hearing more about this deadline.Indeed. Inform us of this deadline. Or cower in fear as I cut my hands and draw strange bloody shapes in the air.
I have thought at one time or another to just put up a webcam, but if you've ever watched Notch stream dev work you'd know that it's 99% very uninteresting entertainment. We grumble and we type and we drink lots of coffee.This gave me a mental image of a sped up video, covering an office setting, with a table where empty cans of energy drinks starts stacking up.
Can't really go into specifics, as due to our strange industry they're actually worth a fair amount on the open market to the Right People. I'll answer your questions about them once they come to light though. Please don't cast that spell on me.
Already did. This particular abomination uses paranoia to drive its targets insane. Every time something fails in your life you will wonder if its because you refused my diabolical and nefarious demands. Soon the torment will be too much and the creature shall feed on your delicious insanity.
QuoteAlready did. This particular abomination uses paranoia to drive its targets insane. Every time something fails in your life you will wonder if its because you refused my diabolical and nefarious demands. Soon the torment will be too much and the creature shall feed on your delicious insanity.
So business as usual then? Good stuff.
I am interested in hearing more about this deadline.Indeed. Inform us of this deadline. Or cower in fear as I cut my hands and draw strange bloody shapes in the air.
I am prepared to deploy WED.
Weapons of eldritch destruction.
Can't really go into specifics, as due to our strange industry they're actually worth a fair amount on the open market to the Right People. I'll answer your questions about them once they come to light though. Please don't cast that spell on me.
Already did. This particular abomination uses paranoia to drive its targets insane. Every time something fails in your life you will wonder if its because you refused my diabolical and nefarious demands. Soon the torment will be too much and the creature shall feed on your delicious insanity.
Can't really go into specifics, as due to our strange industry they're actually worth a fair amount on the open market to the Right People. I'll answer your questions about them once they come to light though. Please don't cast that spell on me.
Already did. This particular abomination uses paranoia to drive its targets insane. Every time something fails in your life you will wonder if its because you refused my diabolical and nefarious demands. Soon the torment will be too much and the creature shall feed on your delicious insanity.
Wait, you assigned another publisher to them? You fiend!
But we don't have a publisher!That's just what they want you to think. I'm using they as a singular pronoun here, by the way.
Oh hey. This happened. Also I'm at GDC and they won't let me out of this hotel room.Have you tried flickering a torch out of the window to get someone's attention?
http://www.pcgamer.com/previews/clockwork-empires-hands-on-life-and-death-on-the-frontier/
DJ: Yeah, yeah. You could probably just even... Maybe the soldiers could throw them [charged leyden jars] at people.
Interviewer: Oh my goodness.
NV: They're not that kind of jar.
DJ: I don't know what would happen. It would discharge...
NV: Would it?!
DJ: It totally would. Because they're made out of glass, and they've just got two suspended plates in them. I don't know if it would actually hurt anybody, though.
DB: Let's assume it would.
DJ: Yeah, let's assume that it would be terrible.
[silly/awesome thing] is still totally possible, it's just not... in the game right now. It should be.This sounds like something that happens a lot.
There was a list, wasn't there? Stick to the list![silly/awesome thing] is still totally possible, it's just not... in the game right now. It should be.This sounds like something that happens a lot.
“somewhere between Dwarf Fortress and SimCity.”why did you say that?
Probably because the first thing some people remember about tropico is the supposed builders only building the buildings you least required and leaving stuff you need right now (like apartments, or farms) unbuilt until later despite prioritizing.Dwarf Fortress already has that covered.
hnnngggghhhhh
gameplay right here!!!!!!! 12 minutes as well not bad about to watch it....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRJ1B4DknOY
Probably because the first thing some people remember about tropico is the supposed builders only building the buildings you least required and leaving stuff you need right now (like apartments, or farms) unbuilt until later despite prioritizing.you never understood the game it seems.
I, for one, welcome our new obelisk-headed land squid overlords! ^__________^BUT BUT, THE ECHIDNA WAS FIRST!....
I hope the AI is as good as RPS seems to think. I am fearful of what that means for the hardware requirements, though.
We didn't want to set expectations low and then have to change them later. The game will run best on a quad core machine (or whatever), but we're still not sure how it will do on a dual core machine. You'll be able to run it, I believe, but it won't be an ideal situation.
Well, I've only played parts of 3's campaign, I probably did miss something.Probably because the first thing some people remember about tropico is the supposed builders only building the buildings you least required and leaving stuff you need right now (like apartments, or farms) unbuilt until later despite prioritizing.you never understood the game it seems.
At the time that was designed, it was a visual suggestion for the stockpile zone. If we go with this whole "visual representation thing", we really need to stick with it. They do cost planks to create, but this is something we have to play with through testing to get it right. We have other versions (brick, metal, and... stone i think), so the player will have some choice about how their stockpiles look eventually. For now, there is only wood.
Quote“somewhere between Dwarf Fortress and SimCity.”why did you say that?
from all what i read about CE, it will be much more like tropico then like simcity.
witch is awsome. sc is borring.
as breakdown and failure will be such a big thing in CE:
most (if not all) games i played that had some resemblance to CE, it is very easy to prevent failure in the first place.
exemple: in df there is this spiral of doom, but after a couple of tries one will have learned that the having enough booze will prevent almost every spiral. by this point, the game becomes rather easy (and borring :( )
tropico was much more difficult in this regard, but even in tropico there where enough ways that (almost) always made you win that election (like having a gold mine and being rich as a fuck)
are there plans to prevent always sucessfull iwinnau strategies in CE? i think this is very difficult to acheive, as the happy zone between "boredom by ensured victory", and "boredom due to frustration by losing to factors one can not influence" is so very thin.
(excample: tropico had this one factor that turned ensured victory completely off, it was called hurricane. yet, i found it a very displeasing feature. losing to divine intervention is not all that much fun to me. i prefer losing to my own mistakes)
anyhow: i think i love you guys <3
What is Tropico?Can't tell if serious or not...
What is Tropico?Can't tell if serious or not...Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I played Tropico 4 for a fevered binge earlier in the year. It is alright. The voice acting is pretty annoying but the music is great. The game is addictive and the game is all too easy: I had 100% approval with everyone just by half-trying to be a nice rules (e.g. providing housing).What is Tropico?Can't tell if serious or not...Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I know what it is now, but I had never heard of it before. Or at least, if I ever heard of it before, I made no connection to it. I certainly never played it. I played the heckola out of some Sim City on my DX4 machine way back in the day though.
I know what it is now, but I had never heard of it before. Or at least, if I ever heard of it before, I made no connection to it.
nicholas had a dream during GDC about peter molyneux and it was weird as heck
haha awesome. It's not a bad idea - we'll consider it, but we're also trying not to do normal animal things because unusual ones are cool :)So... clockwork capybara mounts then?
haha awesome. It's not a bad idea - we'll consider it, but we're also trying not to do normal animal things because unusual ones are cool :)
it's so hard to make anything look like it moves in an equine fashion without having the animation budget of Assassin's Creed X. They'd slide all over the place and be weird.
I'm more curious if we can embark within an evil tundra. I wish to make it as hard on these colonists as it is for my dwarves!
some modder is going to replace our combat music with Yakity Sax and it'd totally work
Probably one of the better tags, I must admit.Quotesome modder is going to replace our combat music with Yakity Sax and it'd totally work
Oh god.
So, ah, if a character is on fire, and other characters see them on fire, are they going to try to help the burning person, or run off to look for marshmallows and a stick?Why not both? Personally I'm going to stuff you into the grill so I can cook my hamburgers.
I feel like this is all a ploy to get us to make one of the cults worship an infinite bear...
I feel like this is all a ploy to get us to make one of the cults worship an infinite bear...An infinite bear could be impressive, after all.
Infinite bear? Bah. Give me an eldritch horror any day. :P At least those tend to be godly, in one form or another.But an infinite amount of bear means an unlimited source of all things beary. You could fend off your foes with the unbearableness of your puns.
What if they were bears that became worms that became god-bears?
I don't get it. I've read Dune, but don't understand how that relates.What if they were bears that became worms that became god-bears?
WAS THAT A DUNE REFERENCE
I LOVE YOU
I don't get it. I've read Dune, but don't understand how that relates.What if they were bears that became worms that became god-bears?
WAS THAT A DUNE REFERENCE
I LOVE YOU
wormbear
did you pre order it or something? what gives you the impression that you have a right to complain?
Yeah, keep bickering out of the thread, please. We have a nice thing going here, let's not screw it up, k?
So hey... any news on release? I have not kept up with this thread, but am interested, and if recent conversation is anything to go by, then trawling through recent posts won't be pleasant. So, any news of release, pre-alpha, demos, or anything?
So hey... any news on release? I have not kept up with this thread, but am interested, and if recent conversation is anything to go by, then trawling through recent posts won't be pleasant. So, any news of release, pre-alpha, demos, or anything?
So hey... any news on release? I have not kept up with this thread, but am interested, and if recent conversation is anything to go by, then trawling through recent posts won't be pleasant. So, any news of release, pre-alpha, demos, or anything?
Early access is coming soon according to the Gaslamp Studios blog. It was supposed to already be here but they pushed it back to Summer. It'll probably be in early access for 1-2 years if other games are anything to go by. I assume no demo seeing as that early access is essentially paying for a demo of the game already.
you're doing it right when testers aren't sure if it's a bug or an intended otherworldly abomination
Investors: Happily, we don’t really have these (unless you count the Gaslamp founding partners, and, I suppose, Canada in a sense). If we had investors meddling in our creative control, to say nothing of finances and release schedule, we could be forced to release a game we weren’t happy with too early. That’d make us very upset, and that’s why we maintain control of our own affairs. Plus, we can say stupid stuff on the blog and get away with it. Still, we need to make money by shipping a product.
Dat tag.There are no bugs, only unintended features.Quoteyou're doing it right when testers aren't sure if it's a bug or an intended otherworldly abomination
A bug or a feature? We can't tell! A perfect way to deflect criticisms, indeed!
Edit: Please read this forum post in a 1930s announcer voice. We were having a competition in the office a couple weeks ago to see who had the best one. Mine was not the worst!
NEVER!
http://www.gaslampgames.com/2014/05/14/the-meat-tree-fitting-pipes-together/
We're good :D
the first couple drawings of the meat tree looked like they were bristling with phalluses and were therefore canned
Quote from: tagsthe first couple drawings of the meat tree looked like they were bristling with phalluses and were therefore canned
I guess they were the wrong kind of wood, huh?
I'm deeply excited by the potential for meat orchards. The real question, though, is whether there will be grass-cows to graze in meat-pastures. And what, if anything, in this scenario is vegan.Sigged due to the worrying look my vegan friend gave me after I softly whispered 'are meat orchards vegan?' into his ear.
If we let a worker just do the job without an overseer, then we make the game less about how the player assigns work crews which would dilute player attention and the game theme. So instead I had our biome generator spawn a new game object type, an “objectCluster” which spawns a number of things in close proximity to one another based on numbers defined in an external file. Now berry bushes always spawn in clusters of 3-5 and now it makes sense for an overseer and workcrew to collect berries (and it’s not a frustrating waste of time to the player!). Meanwhile, Joseph made a new collection of differently sized berry bushes and Chris made new foraging animations (and hooked them up via FSM bollocksry).
If a job is simple or small or short enough that a single person can do it without supervision, perhaps the overseer himself could do it... unless his character traits are such that work of that sort is demeaning, so he'll drag a worker to do it while he stands there and watches anyway? Sort of the overbearing middle management boss most of us have had in our lives (I haven't /humblebrag).A person of his/her station, doing manual labour? Dear cog! Next you'll be telling me that you expect an overseer to treat their labourers as equals. What is this, Stahlmark?
It might be good for if A HORRIBLE TRAGEDY befell your overseer/s?
People will kill other people, but it turns out this is a complex thing to do in a clear way that feels like it enriches the game without merely punishing the player. As the "idyllic" part of the game (starvation, farming, building stuff) comes together, we're just starting to try out our ideas with this, but it'll probably take some iteration.
People will kill other people, but it turns out this is a complex thing to do in a clear way that feels like it enriches the game without merely punishing the player. As the "idyllic" part of the game (starvation, farming, building stuff) comes together, we're just starting to try out our ideas with this, but it'll probably take some iteration.
Game development! Iteration! Synergy!
Game development! Iteration! Synergy!By your powers combined I am Captain Fishperson? -_-
Dont forget blowing 75 percent of the budget on ramen noodles and Unreal Engine 3.Game development! Iteration! Synergy!
Don't forget the coffee!
Dont forget blowing 75 percent of the budget on ramen noodles and Unreal Engine 3.Game development! Iteration! Synergy!
Don't forget the coffee!
Its a pseudo meme.Dont forget blowing 75 percent of the budget on ramen noodles and Unreal Engine 3.Game development! Iteration! Synergy!
Don't forget the coffee!
... They made their own engine, and they're not college students? ???
Coincidentally, a ramen place opened up across the street 2 days ago. We're probably going to all gain 50 pounds in the next month.
I like my game developers how I like my spirits.Coincidentally, a ramen place opened up across the street 2 days ago. We're probably going to all gain 50 pounds in the next month.
Fat and sassy. Just how I like my game developers.
...the frustrating hurdles that hit you every five seconds back then are very quickly disappearing.Now I want to see insane citizens hunting hurdles when they should be hunting dodos.
Someone did a really good job of paraphrasing the content of today's blog post in the comments:Dat AC reference gtg mafia
“We want to use violence not to allow players to hurt things, but to allow us to hurt players.”
http://www.gaslampgames.com/2014/06/11/building-a-better-world-through-video-game-violence/
Dat AC reference gtg mafiaAnd which AC are you acronymising there?
Dat AC reference gtg mafiaAnd which AC are you acronymising there?
I have finally found a steed dapper enough to be worthy of mounting the Steam Knights!
(http://img.timeinc.net/time/2007/50_cars/horsey_horseless.jpg)
Simply replace that infernal combustion engine with something more...suitable, and you have a horse for the modern era, superior to its organic counterpart in every conceivable way, with no mess, no muscle fatigue, and no fleeing in terror from the so called "supernatural" presences that the superstitious would have us believe in such an enlightened age.
Of course, I must say that it is heartwarming that you would take the time to encourage us to defend our fledgling colonies. Indeed, I shall take a second thought before I send the recently immigrated cotton farmer to his untimely demise in order to fuel a developing meat industry.
So.. FarmerBob, Darkmere, Graknorke, Puzzlemaker, and Imperial Guardsman (Descan?), You've been chosen based on an essentially random metric; I've PMed you.For wot?
Others will be chosen. Your time will come.
So.. FarmerBob, Darkmere, Graknorke, Puzzlemaker, and Imperial Guardsman (Descan?), You've been chosen based on an essentially random metric; I've PMed you.For wot?
Others will be chosen. Your time will come.
And now I am sad.
And now I am sad.And I am confused.
Im not Descan.
OMG imperial guardsman ISN'T Descan. There's something weird going on here.Clicking on my sig-link might fill you in.
It's basically the same end result.OMG imperial guardsman ISN'T Descan. There's something weird going on here.Clicking on my sig-link might fill you in.
Or make you terribly confused.
You posted before me by like 2 seconds, bro~ Ninja.It's basically the same end result.OMG imperial guardsman ISN'T Descan. There's something weird going on here.Clicking on my sig-link might fill you in.
Or make you terribly confused.
So.. FarmerBob, Darkmere, Graknorke, Puzzlemaker, and Imperial Guardsman (Descan?), You've been chosen based on an essentially random metric; I've PMed you.
Others will be chosen. Your time will come.
Jokes on you guys, when I play the game for the first time the impossible geometries will be on purpose.
So.. FarmerBob, Darkmere, Graknorke, Puzzlemaker, and Imperial Guardsman (Descan?), You've been chosen based on an essentially random metric; I've PMed you.
Others will be chosen. Your time will come.
Im not Descan.
I'm willing to be Descan if it'll get me in on this.
Im not Descan.
Im not Descan.
I'm willing to be Descan if it'll get me in on this.
FIXED: cannibalism now requires a HUMAN corpse, not any corpseIt's humanocentric! You're neglecting the chance to have eldritch*, cannibal sheep! (or cannibal fish-people, I guess)
*Why is it strangely fitting that spellcheck wants this to be "britches"?
Nah, "FIXME" is a code comment we use when we're putting in a hack that we know is sub-optimal. A large amount of game dev, from my experience at least, involves building just enough and then improving later, rather than building fully robust systems all the way through. You usually don't know all the use-cases for code at the start, and even then, you might rip out the feature later.havent gotten my code yet
THE TIME WILL COME
*cough*
Turns out that we had some horrible memory leaks, which have pushed back the next wave of "testing" by probably a day. Bad news: those of you who were chosen for suffering are not yet suffering. Good news: it'll be more of the suffering you ...deserve? want? This got weird.
THE TIME WILL COME
*cough*
Turns out that we had some horrible memory leaks, which have pushed back the next wave of "testing" by probably a day. Bad news: those of you who were chosen for suffering are not yet suffering. Good news: it'll be more of the suffering you ...deserve? want? This got weird.
... on the other hand, having incentive to build workshops out in the middle of nowhere as appeasement to the dark gods sounds... appealing? To me. It's like creating your own little horror stories out in the woods as a meta-strategy of survival.
"Why do you have your pottery industry on the other end of the island?"
"Uh... no reason. It's just... a thing that works, you know? Keeps the population stable, in my experience. Mostly."
•FIXED: death of animals no longers triggers tragedy music (as tragic as it may be to us vegans -dgb)As a fellow vegan, I must say this saddens me :(
Quote•FIXED: death of animals no longers triggers tragedy music (as tragic as it may be to us vegans -dgb)As a fellow vegan, I must say this saddens me :(
I raise my seitan in salute, David. (And then eat it, because holy crap I love this stuff)
... on the other hand, having incentive to build workshops out in the middle of nowhere as appeasement to the dark gods sounds... appealing? To me. It's like creating your own little horror stories out in the woods as a meta-strategy of survival.
"Why do you have your pottery industry on the other end of the island?"
"Uh... no reason. It's just... a thing that works, you know? Keeps the population stable, in my experience. Mostly."
I like this idea, even more so in the case of "time since last mortal wound". Imagine there is a fish people attack every so often, a bit stronger every time, unless you leave innocent children chained to a certain, rune-engraved rock just beneath the floodline every month.
You ... just don't eat it? O_oQuote•FIXED: death of animals no longers triggers tragedy music (as tragic as it may be to us vegans -dgb)As a fellow vegan, I must say this saddens me :(
I raise my seitan in salute, David. (And then eat it, because holy crap I love this stuff)
I'd love to be vegan, but how can one live without cheese?
Please explain this bizarre concept to me, how does one not eat this wondrous manna sent from the heavens?You ... just don't eat it? O_oQuote•FIXED: death of animals no longers triggers tragedy music (as tragic as it may be to us vegans -dgb)As a fellow vegan, I must say this saddens me :(
I raise my seitan in salute, David. (And then eat it, because holy crap I love this stuff)
I'd love to be vegan, but how can one live without cheese?
Step 1: Close mouthPlease explain this bizarre concept to me, how does one not eat this wondrous manna sent from the heavens?You ... just don't eat it? O_oI'd love to be vegan, but how can one live without cheese?Quote•FIXED: death of animals no longers triggers tragedy music (as tragic as it may be to us vegans -dgb)As a fellow vegan, I must say this saddens me :(
I raise my seitan in salute, David. (And then eat it, because holy crap I love this stuff)
Okay, I followed your advice and now I got closed mouth full of cheese, was this the intended result?Step 1: Close mouthPlease explain this bizarre concept to me, how does one not eat this wondrous manna sent from the heavens?You ... just don't eat it? O_oI'd love to be vegan, but how can one live without cheese?Quote•FIXED: death of animals no longers triggers tragedy music (as tragic as it may be to us vegans -dgb)As a fellow vegan, I must say this saddens me :(
I raise my seitan in salute, David. (And then eat it, because holy crap I love this stuff)
Step 2: There is no need for a second step, please discard
Okay, I followed your advice and now I got closed mouth full of cheese, was this the intended result?Step 1: Close mouthPlease explain this bizarre concept to me, how does one not eat this wondrous manna sent from the heavens?You ... just don't eat it? O_oI'd love to be vegan, but how can one live without cheese?Quote•FIXED: death of animals no longers triggers tragedy music (as tragic as it may be to us vegans -dgb)As a fellow vegan, I must say this saddens me :(
I raise my seitan in salute, David. (And then eat it, because holy crap I love this stuff)
Step 2: There is no need for a second step, please discard
Well, as long as it makes sense. A non-working workshop next to the eldritch spawn point? Not so much. Chaining a child under your settlement to keep your forges running? Better.Not a non-working workshop, but maybe an understaffed one. Y'know, that just happens to be out in the woods. And maybe something happens to the workers occasionally, but you're n- not directly complicit or anything, idiots. No need to go full cultist and chain up kids or whatnot. Just... make it easier for things to happen. Plausible deniability is important, and if it happens to make it so your colonies run a little smoother and still don't go crazy-tentacle-dance, well... maybe the homeland looks away, just a titch?
Step 1: Close mouthPlease explain this bizarre concept to me, how does one not eat this wondrous manna sent from the heavens?You ... just don't eat it? O_oI'd love to be vegan, but how can one live without cheese?Quote•FIXED: death of animals no longers triggers tragedy music (as tragic as it may be to us vegans -dgb)As a fellow vegan, I must say this saddens me :(
I raise my seitan in salute, David. (And then eat it, because holy crap I love this stuff)
Step 2: There is no need for a second step, please discard
I have been meaning to ask you for the longest time, Graknorke, what is that avatar of yours?
Every time I look at it, I get this strange sensation I am watching a strange mashup of Chef Boyardee and Strawberry Shortcake characters.
I have been meaning to ask you for the longest time, Graknorke, what is that avatar of yours?
Every time I look at it, I get this strange sensation I am watching a strange mashup of Chef Boyardee and Strawberry Shortcake characters.
It's a character from Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney, I believe. Beyond that I'm not quite certain.
... The Avatar? Because I just found him from Phoenix Wright, he's aI have been meaning to ask you for the longest time, Graknorke, what is that avatar of yours?
Every time I look at it, I get this strange sensation I am watching a strange mashup of Chef Boyardee and Strawberry Shortcake characters.
It's a character from Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney, I believe. Beyond that I'm not quite certain.
Heh, it's from _Papers, please!_ as I recall. Haven't played that one so I don't know specifics.
... The Avatar? Because I just found him from Phoenix Wright, he's aI have been meaning to ask you for the longest time, Graknorke, what is that avatar of yours?
Every time I look at it, I get this strange sensation I am watching a strange mashup of Chef Boyardee and Strawberry Shortcake characters.
It's a character from Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney, I believe. Beyond that I'm not quite certain.
Heh, it's from _Papers, please!_ as I recall. Haven't played that one so I don't know specifics.gay(uncertain) French chef named Jean Armstrong. (http://aceattorney.wikia.com/wiki/Jean_Armstrong) The art style is completely off for Papers, please. 0_o
We could... it would require that people have some sort of preference for their fruits that is set by either initial conditions or the events which they experience. Currently the character attributes are much more broad than that. I doubt we'll get to that level of depth with them in any reasonable period of time, but given many years to work on this simulation, yeah, we'd totally be into that.
You could also mix it up, in that there is some stacking effect that characters stop receiving as much nutrition (or more simply a thought malus) if they keep eating the same kind of food, and then check for that malus whenever they go to get food (so they avoid it if they can). So they might prefer a steak or roast most of the time or five course gourmet meal, but if they keep eating even that they'll eventually go for a raw cabbage or fishperson.
I imagine that Dave's nutritional content isn't much different to that of a steak.You could also mix it up, in that there is some stacking effect that characters stop receiving as much nutrition (or more simply a thought malus) if they keep eating the same kind of food, and then check for that malus whenever they go to get food (so they avoid it if they can). So they might prefer a steak or roast most of the time or five course gourmet meal, but if they keep eating even that they'll eventually go for a raw cabbage or fishperson.
Or Dave.
You haven't heard of a steak named Dave? ;)I imagine that Dave's nutritional content isn't much different to that of a steak.You could also mix it up, in that there is some stacking effect that characters stop receiving as much nutrition (or more simply a thought malus) if they keep eating the same kind of food, and then check for that malus whenever they go to get food (so they avoid it if they can). So they might prefer a steak or roast most of the time or five course gourmet meal, but if they keep eating even that they'll eventually go for a raw cabbage or fishperson.
Or Dave.
We could... it would require that people have some sort of preference for their fruits that is set by either initial conditions or the events which they experience. Currently the character attributes are much more broad than that. I doubt we'll get to that level of depth with them in any reasonable period of time, but given many years to work on this simulation, yeah, we'd totally be into that.
Simulation me wants to do this. Project management me thinks this way lies madness. We've discussed it a few times at length, and it's currently in the "someday" pile. I have heard rumor that the game system is extremely easy to mod, but since I don't want to be the guy that ruins the compatibility of your food rotting mod, I'm declining to comment officially.
Also there was a new blog post today! And I have had absolutely no time to spend here right now and i feel bad, i miss the low ceilings and abundance of mushroom beer.
Edit: the link: http://www.gaslampgames.com/2014/07/02/technical-status-update-a-young-lads-message/
At this point, we're just making sure that the initial content is deep enough, and the gameplay is smooth enough, that you'll feel like you bought a real game that you can play and have a good time with as soon as you buy it, in addition to the early access benefits of helping us test, suggest, and vote on features.
Well, the art team is now writing code for the game, which is usually a good sign for the state of such things.This statement fills me with both glee and a sense of creeping doom. I'd be concerned as to the sanity of your art team if I wasn't fairly sure they didn't have any left to lose. (I have SEEN the Forbidden Geometries of the Vorpal Axe and the Chicken of Madness and they cannot be Unseen. To have taken part in the creation of such Things from Beyond... my frontal lobes quiver at the mere thought of what that must Do to a mind.)
On the same vein, what options do you have available for hotkey configuration?Given the amount of flack Starbound kept getting for not having the option to rebind keys at it's EA launch, it might be wise to put a fairly high priority on keybinds being in at the start.
I expect this game to be large mouse-driven, but if you have any hotkeys at all (and especially if you have deep trees for accessing build constructions), please allow them to be rebound at the player's preference. You wouldn't necessarily have to go DF-level with everything bound to a key (well, DF's is keyboard-driven so it has to have everything) and everything allowing an unlimited number of hotkeys (although I have a hard time understanding why a limited number of keybinds per key would be easier than an unlimited number), but at least allow more than 2 keys per command.
This is likely something that can go in when you either have time or at the end of a polish phase before official release, but I wanted to get your thoughts on the matter.
That may already exist. Unofficially.
keybindingsI'd agree that reconfigging them is rather necessary from both an ease of access point of view and also for people with disabilities.
If the game turns out to be as easy to mod as it has been implied, I think that will also help with those who are less than satisfied with the initial state of things. Nothing like a group of Madboys/Madgirls creatingengines of despairmods to help keep the common workerenslavedenthralled.
Considering the span of time the game takes place in, would it not be inconceivable for the game to eventually reach some sort of diesely-early 20th century with giant robots powered by demonic energies, built with the intent of reducing labour needs rampaging through the lands?Things on tracks (in other words, train-like things) would be easy enough for that sort of tech... Free-roaming robots, particularly on natural terrain, requires much more work. By their very nature, such things would be VERY* heavy, and thus prone to sinking into the ground or getting stuck in a pit if conditions are anything less than ideal. I would say you would probably be better off keeping such things at least on solid ground able to support their bulk. Rails or tracks of some sort would have the strongest historical precedent; before self-propelled trains, they saw use similar to Dwarf Fortress minecart tracks for wagons and other large loads, and their use goes back thousands of years. And if the vehicle's necessary weight requires sturdy ground to be constructed and leveled, tracks are probably easier anyway and removes the need for ever-finicky steering devices. So giant robots would largely only make sense if confined to some form of rails or tracks.
Would giant robots with the capability of destroying buildings be something moddable?
Anything short of durable rails or a meter of poured concrete, and I suspect you would find you're halfway underground.Giant mole bot.
We'll release them leather-bound with sketches.Do we want to know what ... kind of leather it's bound in?
Anything short of durable rails or a meter of poured concrete, and I suspect you would find you're halfway underground.Giant mole bot.
Also steampunk Shai-Hulud. Especially steampunk Shai-Hulud. The tea must flow.
A giant steampunk digglebot.
Daniel, this must happen.
It is terrifying.
A giant steampunk digglebot.
Daniel, this must happen.
It is inevitable.
Beware the cult of the diggle that live as free men out in the dessert. You can identify them because the odd spice they use for their tea disrupts the normal flow of humors resulting in a gait that is completely without rhythm. (They claim it helps them avoid their great diggle gods who live below the sand but that's so clearly nonsense I'm not sure why I even bothered to record it.)Anything short of durable rails or a meter of poured concrete, and I suspect you would find you're halfway underground.Giant mole bot.
Also steampunk Shai-Hulud. Especially steampunk Shai-Hulud. The tea must flow.
Hmmm
A giant steampunk digglebot.
Daniel, this must happen.
Oh come on! That pun was so good i expected to put my sunglasses on and walk away from the explosion!I guess you could say I...
Oh come on! That pun was so good i expected to put my sunglasses on and walk away from the explosion!I guess you could say I...
... undermined your pun.
Well that wasn't very gneiss.Don't take him for granite.
And a swift deflection from mining to rocks. Well played.
Oh come on! That pun was so good i expected to put my sunglasses on and walk away from the explosion!
You can apparently buy CE on its website now, no blog post about it tough.TF cancels work.
http://clockworkempires.com/
Could someone post an objective post of what it's like when they get on the Earliest Better?
Too easy
We don't have any plans for an achievement for earliest access testing. Motivating people to participate in this process with rewards that aren't the process itself starts to interfere with the stated plan of trying to make sure that only people who WANT to be in right now are in right now.That first paragraph makes a lot of sense, and kudos to you for not pandering to the achievement crowd.
If this doesn't seem like something you want to do, I totally get that. You should probably wait. But if you want to play it now, and you're willing to deal with some issues, that sounds awesome.
There is a Linux build, and it compiles, and it's not a separate chunk of code, I think most of the issues with it at present are graphical, but i'm not sure. We're still committed to it.
Well, I'm pretty sure our demands of SDL have led to new features implemented by icculus over the last 12 months, so we're already helping! Yessss! Good call though, make sure we don't forget :)
Plans for military vehicles you say? These news fills my heart with great joy and happiness! Here, have a picture of an obscure Mexican landship from the Great War!That's beautiful; it looks like it took a lot of inspiration from the contemporary British Marks. I thus respond with this fine example from
(http://files.activeboard.com/1554779?AWSAccessKeyId=1XXJBWHKN0QBQS6TGPG2&Expires=1406764800&Signature=c5Q21nmoLcMKflDE0r4f6MtyUKU%3D)
Yes, but not to start. As I think i wrote in the status page, the random terrain generation is currently locked on "lowlands with some highlands and some sea". We're going to be blowing this out a lot, but it's not our immediate focus.
The UI take some getting used to, and can be initially a little frustrating (we're going to focus on that after we resolve any big issues that come up tomorrow), but I'm sure our forums (or these ones) will be able to help with questions about that.
I think I can safely say the UI is not DF levels of wtf.
get the daniel manI think I can safely say the UI is not DF levels of wtf.
omg nda breach
Crap! I can hear the trained attack diggles coming for me as we speak.
Doesn't look like we'll have savegames for tomorrow. Damn. been pushing for that really hard the last week but it's not quite ready. SOON (tm) THOUGH
And proceed to lose half of Bay12's interested people. :pDoesn't look like we'll have savegames for tomorrow. Damn. been pushing for that really hard the last week but it's not quite ready. SOON (tm) THOUGH
You're not doing it right.
You're supposed to say: For a limited time only...CLOCKWORK EMPIRES - XTREME ROGUELIKE DLC!!!
Hate saves!? US TOO! Now, for the low, low price of 9.99 you can have the always online experience COMPLETELY FREE FROM THAT HORRIBLE SAVING YOU'VE ALWAYS HATED!!!!
Doesn't look like we'll have savegames for tomorrow. Damn. been pushing for that really hard the last week but it's not quite ready. SOON (tm) THOUGHSerialization, the bane of coders everywhere. Oh well, I probably should be packing rather than playing so this news probably just saved me from sleeping on the couch. (Maybe if we get the packing done early... )
f5 f5 f5 f5 f5It's only 10 MDT, you have another hour still.
f5 f5 f5 f5 f5It's only 10 MDT, you have another hour still.
Finishing my coffee, heading to the office!
Not on my Steam it isn't. :(Yeah, it's not there yet.
There isn't a working mac version. I mean, it exists, but we weren't planning on making it available on steam (which was a mistake).Haha, that explains it; I was surprised to see it in my Mac library and figured I'd give it a shot.
We WILL have one, but not for "Earliest" access. If you are willing to wait it out, we'll get there. If not, that's totally understandable, you should be able to request a refund from Humble.
Ah, okay is anyone here EldritchPenguin from the gaslamp forums? I know we have the penguin thing but his solution to the early food problem was "get migrants -> execute them -> cannibalism!" and that's too damn dwarfy to be coincidence....
Ah, okay is anyone here EldritchPenguin from the gaslamp forums? I know we have the penguin thing but his solution to the early food problem was "get migrants -> execute them -> cannibalism!" and that's too damn dwarfy to be coincidence....
If you poke around in the Gaslamp Games forums, Dwarf Fortress vets are common. Dredmor is loaded with DF easter eggs.
It does not surprise me at all that there is some crossover :)
3: We've been talking about this over the weekend. We have had plans about fixing this for a while, but it wasn't as apparent how important fixing this was until now. The first piece of solving the workshop micro-management problem is most likely setting "standing orders" for X of whatever commodity you want: if you ever fall below 3 cabbage stew, queue more. There are a few more potential issues that we'll start seeing with products that require more steps to produce, but we have some ideas for that as well.
just bought the EA and i can't seem to run the game. the graphics are all twisted after I start a new game
just bought the EA and i can't seem to run the game. the graphics are all twisted after i start a new game
Sorry about the game tho, we'll sort you out one way or another.Two days later, SharpKris finds himself mysteriously exiting a boat, freshly arrived at a distant colony. The foreman along the shore greets him, "Thank you for defending the empire!"
Sorry about the game tho, we'll sort you out one way or another.Two days later, SharpKris finds himself mysteriously exiting a boat, freshly arrived at a distant colony. The foreman along the shore greets him, "Thank you for defending the empire!"
SharpKris gasps as a musket is thrust into his hands, "But I ... I just wanted my graphics card issues resolved!"
"There will be no time for that with the fishpeople overrunning us!" He turns a little too slowly, and finds the charging brigade from the sea two cubits distant. He's arrived in time for one last desperate stand.
Evening finds him lying on the beach in the midst of his own broken teeth and a red tide rolling in. To the heavens he screams, "CURWSH WUUU DANEEOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!! CURWSH WUUU GASWAMP GAMSHSHSHSHSHSHSHSHSHSH!!!!!"
--
I'm severely tempted to go into the EA here starting monday. It launched during a busy spot for me, so I've been trying to keep myself from it. Like a moth tries so hard to just circle around the fire. Drifting closer on every pass ... No, I mustn't. No, I mustn't respond to that ... that ... arcane temptation. Two days. Twooo dayyssssss. Wait, Monday is only technically like 19 hours away from me. 0.7 days. 0.7 dayyssssss ........
Really tempted to jump in on the Earliest Access...could someone try and convince me?
Also, how long away is the next substantial update?
To be honest, the idea of people effectively paying to playtest gives me a vague sense of disapproval, though I couldn't really place it on anything. I kinda want to say why not just have people be able to pay from the very start of development? It's effectively a kickstarter - paying to support an greatly unfinished product. Why didn't you use kickstarter, if you wanted guaranteed purchases before 1.0 release, and release the alpha to them to test and enjoy, when a successful kickstarter may spread the word more?
I have a feeling you talked about this before, but a cursory search via keywords on the weblog found no results.
Don't want to sound belligerent here, but words are not my forte.
Early access in general has led to a major decline in the quality of games upon release sadly...I remember back when games came out and patching them on console was impossible and very difficult on PC regardless...I seem to recall games being much more stable and bug free in lots of cases...or at least not the same monsterous disasters they are these days when they launch...
Early access in general has led to a major decline in the quality of games upon release sadly...I remember back when games came out and patching them on console was impossible and very difficult on PC regardless...I seem to recall games being much more stable and bug free in lots of cases...or at least not the same monsterous disasters they are these days when they launch...That has more to do with how much more complex games and computers are now than it does with anything else. When your entire game fits on a 1.4 floppy with room to spare it is a LOT easier to debug and test.
To be honest, the idea of people effectively paying to playtest gives me a vague sense of disapproval, though I couldn't really place it on anything. I kinda want to say why not just have people be able to pay from the very start of development? It's effectively a kickstarter - paying to support an greatly unfinished product. Why didn't you use kickstarter, if you wanted guaranteed purchases before 1.0 release, and release the alpha to them to test and enjoy, when a successful kickstarter may spread the word more?My understanding its less wanting playtesters or money (they have PLENTY of free playtesters I can assure you, across many forums - Something Awful basically made Dredmor's polish possible) and more that people have been consistently begging them to release an early version to play. People are hyped up, so they are giving people access.
I have a feeling you talked about this before, but a cursory search via keywords on the weblog found no results.
Don't want to sound belligerent here, but words are not my forte.
I wasn't exactly referencing games on 1.4" floppies....How complex something is is a poor excuse for how buggy it is. It is merely them releasing it early as they deem it playable to start raking in revenue because they know they can now work on it over the next X months while making money at the same time. It's more of a time = money type thing especially when it comes to larger studiosEarly access in general has led to a major decline in the quality of games upon release sadly...I remember back when games came out and patching them on console was impossible and very difficult on PC regardless...I seem to recall games being much more stable and bug free in lots of cases...or at least not the same monsterous disasters they are these days when they launch...That has more to do with how much more complex games and computers are now than it does with anything else. When your entire game fits on a 1.4 floppy with room to spare it is a LOT easier to debug and test.
Early access in general has led to a major decline in the quality of games upon release sadly...I remember back when games came out and patching them on console was impossible and very difficult on PC regardless...I seem to recall games being much more stable and bug free in lots of cases...or at least not the same monsterous disasters they are these days when they launch...
i rather wait for the cookies instad of eating all the dough ;)I'm sorry, but you can't convince me that cookie dough isn't one of the seventh wonders of the world.
Meat from logs...seems cult like
Early access in general has led to a major decline in the quality of games upon release sadly...I remember back when games came out and patching them on console was impossible and very difficult on PC regardless...I seem to recall games being much more stable and bug free in lots of cases...or at least not the same monsterous disasters they are these days when they launch...
I'm going to try to answer what I think was the question at the start of the current discussion, which i'll paraphrase as "If you're going to do this, why not just do a kickstarter?"All very understandable and I agree with it fully.
-snippedy snippedy snip snip-
The second picture....estableished? Someone needs to spellcheck...
Is there a button to rotate furniture before placing?
I believe these spellingmistakeschanges were done in the Shakespearean way to give deeper meaning to the word*.
Estableished was to show that not only was this established; it also had table like qualities.
(http://blog.shakespearegeek.com/2008/03/original-spelling-argument.html):
Rotating works, thanks guys - now, is there a key to delete objects that are incorrectly placed?
You can rotate it, but you can't delete something you accidentally place. Or save.
You can rotate it, but you can't delete something you accidentally place. Or save.
All of these things have already been stated - I can't tell if you're deliberately trolling or just a massive kill-joy.
This is exactly the problem with early access though, even when you're as crystal clear on how early it is, people still say 'but why isn't this in yet!!'
You can rotate it, but you can't delete something you accidentally place. Or save.
All of these things have already been stated - I can't tell if you're deliberately trolling or just a massive kill-joy.
This is exactly the problem with early access though, even when you're as crystal clear on how early it is, people still say 'but why isn't this in yet!!'
They have been clearly stated as not being in yet, but what I'm saying is they seem to be base-level mechanics that most games have in from a very early stage.
I'm not bemoaning 'Earliest Access' or Early Access, I have been present on a number of public and private Alpha and Beta tests, it simply baffles me how two seemingly core mechanics (they aren't flavour additions!) haven't been implemented at this stage.
From what I've gathered over at the gaslamp forums, saving was close to working fine on some test systems back before the earliest access was announced, but a loophole cropped up in a test case last-minute (windows 7 32-bit, IIRC) that exposed a flaw with the whole thing and they decided to plug that, redoing a big chunk of the save code in the process or some such. One of the coders is spending 100% of his time working on saves right now.
As for buildings... deleting the interior modules probably wouldn't be that big of a deal. Deleting the punch-through-walls exterior modules will be a Very Big Deal. I'm guessing it was a choice between doing the easy part first and leaving out the second, doing both with prolonged internal testing that would have delayed the game by quite a bit and still likely had problems on release (which they'd have to re-code), or waiting on it til the game was stable and letting a large group of voluntary testers poke at the system to save development time for other things (like making sure the game doesn't catch on fire and explode while drinking all the good beer).
Regarding the soldiers question, you can't explicitly assign them their equipment right now, and we need to spend a little bit of time on that system.
Currently, guns are regarded as tools by the characters to fulfill actions they may want to do. Soldiers know they need guns to shoot fish people, and work crews know they need guns to hunt aurochs and dodos.
We had the makings of a more sophisticated system for equipment in the game earlier, but we realized that we were putting the cart before the horse, so we have disabled it temporarily. I suspect some light level of character equipment management will make its way back in, but if i were to guess, I'd say we won't start thinking about that for a month or two.
I had a response to this and then realized I didn't remember how the military does work and/or should work. I was thinking that 'carry your gun with you, soldier' could be a background 'job', but I also could be thinking out of my rear end. :P
Woo! I'm really liking this game so far as it's pretty playable as far as Alphas go. One thing I -love- is the work teams, simple concept but it has a huge effect on gameplay. I wish Dwarf Fortress had something similar.
We talked about naval combat, but it's very much its own system, and it has some really interesting and difficult problems. We have a few assets for it, but we've shelved the naval combat system indefinitely at the moment. Military protection is currently planned to be land-based.
Bada-BUMP! I was excited for this when I heard about it, and just now thought to look it up. Watched the current trailers and whatnot. It... doesn't look anything like what many of the old promises were about. Procedural buildings and workshop setup and actual cities. It looks like a remake of Towns or any of the other dozen like it... Am I mistaken?It's... well honestly I can't make myself sit down and play through the game right now. Its so so rough... the whole game just feels really awkward. They have some cool ideas but the art style is hideous and it's difficult to understand exactly what is going on. It's still early access of course, so they may tie it all together at some point.
So we're in the part where the game parts are there, but the game isn't quite there yet?
the art style is hideous
Maybe hideous is too strong. The animations are stilted and feel disconnected. Again, I fully understand that this is early access and probably a lot of stuff is unfinished. I love the idea of the game but so far its just not too much fun.the art style is hideous
Personally, I adore the art style.
I'm starting to wonder a bit about some of the features you mentioned the game possibly having earlier. Are things like conveyor belts, an abundance of pipes and being able to define the extrusion of buildings still planned? I feel like there's the base of a game here now, I'm just not sure if it's the one originally described. Maybe CE isn't as far along in development as I'm assuming it is.the art style is hideous
Personally, I adore the art style.
Gotta say that the latest patch has done wonders for the game. The new work group interface is fantastic by the way. Much easier to use, more compact, clearer as to what is happening. The only other thing I'd want for it is to set the maximum 'desired' workers so that new immigrants are assigned where I want them.
For example I may only need an overseer and one worker in the carpentry shop to keep up with plank demands for now, but might want a full group in the kitchen. I set desired workers for the carpentry group to 1, desired workers for the kitchen group to 4, and when I get new workers they are assigned accordingly. Just a thought
But then I'd have to go register...
I am rather annoyed by the fact that you can only scroll using wasd and not by using the arrow keys or by pushing the mouse to the edge of the screen or by holding down right/middle mouse button and drag.you can also move around by right clicking the ground to recenter but that's annoying. I've always hated edge scrolling and only use WASD myself.
I am rather annoyed by the fact that you can only scroll using wasd and not by using the arrow keys or by pushing the mouse to the edge of the screen or by holding down right/middle mouse button and drag.
The workshop thing was actually required in order for using large workshops not to be a nightmare though. If you have a power saw, for instance, it can currently only makes planks and maybe 1 or 2 other things, but can do them in large batches. The carpentry bench could make basically everything but very slowly. If we didn't make recipes per-module, if you had both in one workshop and a workbench finished a job a hair before a power saw, it might decide to take a job to make planks that the power saw really ought to be doing, and you lose a TON of efficiency off of things you can't really control. This does give players a little bit more gardening to do but honestly it's not inherently a bad thing to motivate a little interaction as long as the choices aren't always the same. If you're always building the same thing you can just build a few modules in the workshop, set minimum orders, and leave it there.It does however cause lost efficiency as well, or an excessive amount of player fiddling with buttons.
On a general level this would be okay if we could automate production, but right now it means you must constantly micro the supply of certain goods. It as well locks your build order of the colony into a certain line. So that in order to build workshop X you first need workshops Y and Z since they produce the things X eats. I guess that alone would be fine, it is just the micro that gets annoying.Wait are you no longer able to set up a 'standing order'? I remember being able to set it to produce, for example, planks continuously until you had x number. Admittedly I haven't played recently because every time I tried I just got swarmed by bandits and killed, so I lost interest.
You can set standing orders, but you need to micro the orders to produce anything else then.
So this just happened.
Apparently the whole game is just a hologram!Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I already reported it and sent them a save, but amusing nonetheless.
And the dev stopped updates 2000 years ago...
Maybe I'm in the minority but I didn't feel the UI is that bad. I mean, it is bad, but not on a Dwarf Fortress level of bad.
It's pretty ugly but it works.
Maybe I'm in the minority but I didn't feel the UI is that bad. I mean, it is bad, but not on a Dwarf Fortress level of bad.
It's pretty ugly but it works.
Funny how they started wanting to build a "Dwarf Fortress, but with a real UI" and ended up with reviewers saying DF has a better UI (and A.I.).
http://www.pcgamer.com/clockwork-empires-review/?utm_content=bufferd79d6&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=buffer_pcgamerfb
QuoteAnd the dev stopped updates 2000 years ago...
this is wrong, they're been publishing updates regularly (at least once a month) since at least 2 year ago, you can check https://www.clockworkempires.com/development.html for details of each releases
It's a real shame Gaslamp Games jumped ship and abandoned the game before it was done.
* No refund policy. I sincerely regret spending the money to buy this game and I won't buy a game from anyone that was involved:
My issue with this kinda thing is that they game developers don't seem to realise when to stop and reign things in, and then not forewarning people that it's going down the drain.
If you've got 15 systems that are poorly implemented, reign it back to 10 and then get those working well (and in a fun way) - the good software developers I've worked with in the past have always managed to spot when things are getting to diffuse and unworkable and reign everything in to the core elements.
Take rimworld - it started off incredibly basic, but the systems worked well in a fun way, and it's now one of the best selling games on Steam.
I really, really liked the gaslight people - they all seemed great, sincere and engaged with the community, however there's a level of sort of...hubris when they can see it going downhill and then not admitting it and pulling everything back in. Most gamers, especially those who are into the 'indie scene' would understand and be quite forgiving - not saying anything and then folding out of the blue is however pretty unacceptable.
I think this is actually where most game developers fail. Doing a few things really good almost always makes for a better product than doing a lot of things mediocre. It also gives you a very good base to expand from with sequels or expansions.
This is certainly one of the biggest disappointments for early access. The Dredmor games were very complete but Clockwork Empires failed to deliver on:
* Any sense of fun. It's just not fun
* Building was so janky and micro intensive that it makes you not want to play
* External threats (bandits, empire) were either super easy or retarded hard
* Managing stockpiles, farms, etc - a complete chore. You never get any benefit from them, the most you can expect is bare survival
* Useless or unimplemented buildings like the barber shop - supposedly to heal your colonists, it just doesn't work. Same for naturalist.
* No refund policy. I sincerely regret spending the money to buy this game and I won't buy a game from anyone that was involved:
WHO IS GASLAMP GAMES?
Founding Partners:
Nicholas Vining : Technical Director
Daniel Jacobsen : CEO
David Baumgart : Art Director
Motley Associates:
Chris Dykstra : Director of Business Development
Derek Bonner : Web Developer & System Admin
Matthew Steele : Audio Specialist
Chris Triolo : Animator
Sean Hamilton : 3D Artist
Joseph Nejat : 3D Artist
Ryan C. Gordon : Hackmaster
Micah J. Best: Systems Programmer
Chris Whitman: Gameplay Programmer
Mathieu Dugon: Community Liaison
Andrew Ferguson: Build Engineering
Stephanie Tinsley Schopp: Public Relations Maverick
edit: The worst thing promised but never delivered (in a reasonable game session, I'm not going to play place the beds for 16 hours to see this): The lovecraftian element. There are cults, that affect nothing in the early game, and there is no real sense of horror at all for the vast majority of the game. Maybe it kicks in after 20 hours of fidgeting with orders and snap tight modules, but nobody is going to spend that amount of time on it.
Glad I dodged this one. I wasn't so lucky with Space Base. Never buying another DoubleFine game after that.For me it was the other way around. I dodged SB but bought into this one's EA.
My rule is don't by EA unless you actually would enjoy playing the game in its current state, and don't preorder unless you're so into a game you know you'll ignore bad reviews.Yeah. Because of the way it's become on Steam, I just treat Early Access games as normal, complete games: If I like the thing I will be getting in an hour or two when it complete download, I'll buy it (or more likely wait for it to go on sale), otherwise I'll pass. Might put it on my wishlist to see how it looks in the future, that's the only way I treat EA games different.