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Wait for Next Version, Use current (.40.24,) or use older release (.34.11?)

Wait for the next release. I want usable mugs damn it!
- 55 (71.4%)
We can use the current one. I like the big trees and slightly smarter dorfs.
- 17 (22.1%)
I'll take .34.11 thanks. I want to know I'll get to kill things for sure.
- 5 (6.5%)

Total Members Voted: 77


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Author Topic: [34.11] Spearbreakers - It shudders and begins to move  (Read 2208414 times)

Splint

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #9735 on: January 27, 2014, 02:16:12 am »

Spreabreakers, I summon thee from the dead!

So, I was looking through stuff about the older versions of the game and I got to thinking, why not in SB 2, have a system of noble upgrading based upon population and ones I finish raw diving to check, exported wealth? This doesn't take the vanilla nobility (baron, count, duke, and monarch,) into consideration save for one concerning the use of castes and the use of squads. This assumes most of the way certain nobles are appointed and such goes unchanged. Once again, most of these are intended to reflect the fort as it grows. Some are for flavor, others to give us a real reason to arrange unfortunate accidents.

Anyway, this was what I had in mind.

Basic appointed admins: What we start with.
-Expedition Leader
-Outpost Broker
-Bookkeeper
-Expedition Medic
-Sheriff
-Militia Commander and Militia Sergeants 

at 20 population
-Arsenal Dwarf: This position is just for flavor, and in the event we screw up on gearing up the military, we have someone we can blame it on.

At 50
-Mayor: Upgrades from the EL, and is an elected official naturally. Remains unchanged from vanilla.

-Trade Minister: Upgrades from Outpost Broker, would like modest level accommodations (bedroom, office, and dining room,) gets one mandate.

-Treasurer: Upgrades from the bookkeeper and would like a modest bedroom/dining room and decent office. Also gets a mandate.

-Chief Medical Dwarf: Upgrades from the medic, desires a decent bedroom and required to assign up to three psychiatrists and two assistant physicians.
  - Assistant Physicians: max 2, who request modest bedrooms. If the CMD is busy, too far away, or is himself injured, they'll tend to the wounded.
  - Psychiatrists: Max 3 with them requesting a modest bedroom and to do their job of helping calm angry dwarves, a meager office. CMD assigns them since chances are it'll be the hospital staff that caused many of the angry dwarves to start with. Largely if there's a wave of extreme unhappiness (say due to a botched engagement with the spawn or a sequiv attack,) they'll take a lot of pressure off the mayor or governor.

-Disciples of Fischer: The dwarven nation's knighthood order. The head of the local Disciple chapter requests baron-level accommodation including tomb and leads a squad of five disciples.

-Disciples of Vanya: The other half of the nation's knights, though many don't consider them as important as the Disiples of Fischer, and leads a squad of five. The branch leader has the same requirements as his or her Fischers counterpart.

-Captain of the Guard: Self-explanatory, unchanged.

-Colonel and Sergeants: Replace the base militia versions, and are now considered to be representative of the official military, acting as a professional garrison now rather than a simple "part-time" militia force. The Colonel requires a decent bedroom, sergeants modest.

At 80
-Governor: Upgrades from mayor, and requires an additional cabinet and chest, as well as a fine dining room/bedroom and a splendid office. Like the mayor, the governor is an elected official, and also receives an additional mandate and demand.
  -Governor's Guard: A squad of four dwarves who act as the Governor's bodyguards. The Guard Officer has the same requirements as the Colonel and I'm considering having them assist the fortress guard with law enforcement when needed, but their main duty is keeping rioting dwarves from killing the governor.
-Guildmaster: Replaces the Trade Minister and would like decent level rooms sans tomb and has 2 mandates.
-Hoardmaster: Replaces Treasurer, and would like decent sleeping and dining arrangements and a splendid office. 2 mandates.

Caste ideas
Dwelves: Rather than a separate civ, dwarf-elf half breeds are accepted among dwarven society, as their elven parents were clearly dwarves at heart. While dwarves still hold elven nations in high disdain, they are now willing to mingle with elves on a case by case basis. Main benefit is that their elven heritage grants improved learn rates (say double) with woodworking, woodcrafting, and animal training and they are [AT_PEACE_WITH_WILDLIFE], making them excellent for wildlife extermination missions. However, the elvishness in them also causes them to not like working with stone or being underground as much, resulting in deficits to mining, masonry (but not engraving,) and stonecrafting, say only learning these skills at half normal rate, making them terrible for such work. Many expeditions going into heavily forested lands prize these individuals since they aren't bothered while collecting wood or capturing animals.

Disciples of Fischer: Members of the dwarven knighthood order of the same name, these dwarves have dedicated their lives to battling the foes of dwarfdom with pike and shield. They learn fighting, armor, shield, and pikeman skills twice as quickly, but view menial work as a necessary evil at best when they can't fight and learn all labors except for mining at half rate. They all have well above average physical stats and willpower and increased sight range. A Disciple of Fischer must lead the Disciple squad.

Disciples of Vanya: Members of the dwarven knighthood order of the same name, these dwarf-elf halfbreeds have dedicated their lives to battling the foes of dwarfdom with the dagger and agility. They learn fighting, armor, dodging, and knife user twice as quickly, and learn wrestling at 4 times the normal rate (as wrestling is a painfully slow skill to train now and knife user doesn't count for being a weapon master.) Like the Disciples of Fischer, they learn most skills outside of their dedicated ones at only half rate, but due to being dwelves, they learn woodworking, crafting, and animal training at the normal rate normal dwarves do but unlike normal dwelves, their clearly violent nature means that animals will run from them and interrupt them while they're working. They all have above average stats, save agility which is extremely high (to make better use of their daggers,) and exceptional willpower as well as increased sight range. A Disciple of Vanya must lead the Disciples of Vanya squad.

Highborn Dwarves: Used to represent lesser nobility. Once a Baron or greater is on site, these dwarves can be assigned to the Highborn Dwarf position. Highborn dwarves require a decent suite and burial arrangements. Effectively, they act as knights for us and have a single mandate with which to pester the common dwarf and the administrators. They learn all things they deem commoners' work at only 10% the normal rate (to represent them being stubborn jackasses, but they will work) but learn certain combat skills two and a half times the normal rate: Fighting, Armor, Shield, Sword, Pike, Marksman, and Dodging. And due to the example set by the Duke of Spearbreakers, these lesser nobles are expected to lead their fellow dwarves into battle and lead a squad of three, themselves and two retainers/squires. Displaced highborn dwarves are often sought out for expeditions to lead the local military forces. Their physical stats and willpower are above average, but nothing spectacular.

Displaced Megacorp Employees: Dwarves who used to work either for Ballpoint or Parasol but for one reason or another - most likely the deaths of most of their co-workers - have found themselves mixed into the native dwarven society. They learn Engineering skills and marksmanship double the normal rate as well as weaponsmithing at about 20% faster than normal (representing the basic familiarity with weapons and maintaining them that employees going to Everoc would need.) However they learn all other skills at half the normal rate; after all these are scientists and soldiers, not farmers and miners. Their physical stats tend to be average or a bit on the upper low end due to having likely grown up in places that didn't demand quite so much of them physically, and whatever forced them into native society has clearly broken their spirits to an extent as they have a deficit of willpower. Medicines and tech they still have on them or in them has given them a greater lifespan of 175 to 200 years rather than native dwarves' 150-175.

Also, high nobility (baron, count, duke, and even the monarch,) are now expected to at least be ready to fight for the citizens they rule. The Baron, Count, and Duke now lead squads of four: Themselves and 3 bodyguards. The monarch, being the monarch, has a full squad of ten: The king or queen and their attended bodyguard retinue. That's right you snooty nobles, now you have to earn those privileges!

Thoughts?

Lolfail0009

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #9736 on: January 27, 2014, 02:39:45 am »

Everything above seems to be a political upgrade, in my opinion. Also a fan of the casteing of dwelves/megacorp dwarves. However, with the number of races we can trade with, would it be worth setting the number of brokers higher than one, or perhaps [NUMBER:AS_NEEDED]?

Splint

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #9737 on: January 27, 2014, 02:59:58 am »

Well that is sort of what it is. Certain ones would be as needed, like highborn dwarves (who I devised as way for us to be allowed to arrange unfortunate accidents without complete upward stagnation, though at the cost of decent soldier. :D)

Having dwelves as a caste was specifically to reduce trade partners by one. Anything specific about any of that anyone find stupid and/or in need of refinement?

Aseaheru

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #9738 on: January 27, 2014, 07:16:09 am »

What about Stone Inc employees? The few that dident go and leave that is...
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Splint

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #9739 on: January 27, 2014, 08:05:01 am »

What about Stone Inc employees? The few that didn't go and leave that is...

They don't really have a reason to integrate with local society.

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #9740 on: January 27, 2014, 08:11:36 am »

Ah well. They can still trade, right?
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Splint

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #9741 on: January 27, 2014, 08:22:21 am »

Ah well. They can still trade, right?

Possibly. I'm a little concerned over their involvement since while they did take part in the fighting (on the side of Sewaturet during that attack on Eris' in-dimension base) and assisted both Ballpoint and Parasol with weapons development to some extent their otherwise minor role is something that may relegate them to minor trading partner bringing some more advanced weapons and armor at best and elimination from the game itself rather than the stories to slim down on civs at worst and improve chances of other hostile races surviving world gen, as our opposing forces tend to get ganged up on by the extra good guy civs.

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #9742 on: January 27, 2014, 08:23:49 am »

Ah well.

Couldent you get around the ganging-up-on by limiting there population to something small?
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Splint

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #9743 on: January 27, 2014, 08:28:06 am »

That doesn't always work. With just what we had in the first game during tests the spawn kept getting wiped out time and time again while barbarians and goblins often flourished, likely because like everyone else they were picking on the spawn too and being baby snatchers gave them at least one "ally" in eachother.

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #9744 on: January 27, 2014, 08:30:42 am »

Oh well.
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TalonisWolf

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #9745 on: January 27, 2014, 12:13:50 pm »

It is possible to change the names of the original noble positions. You may want to change the name of the "Chief Medical Dwarf" to fit in with Spearbreakers history with the healthcare system.

Fake edit: Huh, you already know this since you changed CMD to "Expedition Medic"... Oh well.
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Splint

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #9746 on: January 27, 2014, 12:27:40 pm »

It is possible to change the names of the original noble positions. You may want to change the name of the "Chief Medical Dwarf" to fit in with Spearbreakers history with the healthcare system.

Fake edit: Huh, you already know this since you changed CMD to "Expedition Medic"... Oh well.

Actually the CMD is the medic's upgrade. I've actually finished most of the raws for these positions.

Also changed the champion to Hero of the Fortress.

Cynm

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #9747 on: January 27, 2014, 03:33:14 pm »

I like your ideas. If only there was a way to make battlefield medics that recovered wounded while the fighting was going on. I feel like that would be a better role for the Disciples of Vanya.
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TalonisWolf

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #9748 on: January 27, 2014, 03:43:33 pm »

I like your ideas. If only there was a way to make battlefield medics that recovered wounded while the fighting was going on. I feel like that would be a better role for the Disciples of Vanya.
  Give them weapons, but only assign the "Recover Wounded" labour? It would fit, but be a pain. Maybe give them all the medical labours, with the occasional exception since they are open-minded?

  Of course, this could only be done in-game, so this doesn't apply to the mod per se.

Fake Edit, inspiration hit JUST as I was about to post:

  Wait, Masterwork has certain castes have skill gain boosts and penalties... is it possible to give a boost to Medical and (because Vanya loved Science) Mechanics? Perhaps Alchemy, although that skill is really useless Vanilla.

To make it balanced-ish, if the above is possible, give The Disciples of Vanya a penalty on Mining since Vanya was terrified of tight spaces.


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Aseaheru

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Re: Spearbreakers - A Tale Of Depression, Pyromania, and Mugs. (34.11, finished)
« Reply #9749 on: January 27, 2014, 03:48:03 pm »

You can do it without masterwork, its just that masterwork has the best example of them.

Do we have any jobs in the mod using alchemy?
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