Ah, yeah, I'm not surprised. I had to put in exceptions for the site finder and notes, but I forgot about warnings since I never try to embark on aquifers... oh well. I'll have to patch it up for next time.
Not sure if this is new but when i try to embark somewhere with an aquifer and i get warned about it, if i try to cancel by pressing ESC it just brings me to the menu and i have to abort the whole embark
Beeskee cancels working, playing Dwarf Fortress...I second this. ;D
(*)added pillar tile to d_initadded pillar tile to d_init
Likely, though there's the problem of finding the space for a separate pillar tile.Quote(*)added pillar tile to d_initadded pillar tile to d_init
Oh damn, does this mean that nice tilesets will no longer have Os instead of pillars in their text?
Also, I was able to trade =Microcline Thrones= and all other kinds of furniture in .06. Is it supposed to be like that?
Ohh, I only just noticed. First time I went on the ALL button to look for stuff that was valuable. :-[Also, I was able to trade =Microcline Thrones= and all other kinds of furniture in .06. Is it supposed to be like that?
Furniture has been tradeable since 40D and before, it was just not economical to do so vs their weight.
Not sure if this is new but when i try to embark somewhere with an aquifer and i get warned about it, if i try to cancel by pressing ESC it just brings me to the menu and i have to abort the whole embark
Actually, that's the only way to back out of that screen then correct?
Not sure if this is new but when i try to embark somewhere with an aquifer and i get warned about it, if i try to cancel by pressing ESC it just brings me to the menu and i have to abort the whole embark
Actually, that's the only way to back out of that screen then correct?
well as near as i can tell you can press ENTER and accept or just abort the whole embark so no, I only found that when i accedently almost embarked on an aquifer
Toady, what types of bugs will you concentrate on next? Will you fix the farming bug? Or marksdwarves? plaster powder? Combat balancing/bugs? Unkillable FBs?
Oldschool green question.
2. Cant build a farming plot on some areas for some reason, here is a 3x3 plot, over 1 water tiles, 3 tiles missing:
Ah, yeah, I'm not surprised. I had to put in exceptions for the site finder and notes, but I forgot about warnings since I never try to embark on aquifers... oh well. I'll have to patch it up for next time.
Probably a known bug, but all my dwarves have the appearances of ages and are really the first of their kind.
My entire fort is made up of ancient ancestral dwarves from really early times like year 1.
why cant i make anyone to the militia commander? what trait do they need? only 2 of my 7 starters show up there... is this a new feature or a bug or whatever? i know that in military screen the squad leader was always just a few picks but in noble screen i could set anyone
Toady's probably asleep now, so for the next 24 hours you'd better just stick with 31.06.Probably a known bug, but all my dwarves have the appearances of ages and are really the first of their kind.
My entire fort is made up of ancient ancestral dwarves from really early times like year 1.
What's the current year and how old are your dwarves?
Toady's probably asleep now, so for the next 24 hours you'd better just stick with 31.06.Probably a known bug, but all my dwarves have the appearances of ages and are really the first of their kind.
My entire fort is made up of ancient ancestral dwarves from really early times like year 1.
What's the current year and how old are your dwarves?why cant i make anyone to the militia commander? what trait do they need? only 2 of my 7 starters show up there... is this a new feature or a bug or whatever? i know that in military screen the squad leader was always just a few picks but in noble screen i could set anyone
Probably related to one of these changelog items:
(*)made militia commander assignment from noble screen respect current squad settings properly
(*)stopped dwarves from holding multiple positions that lead squads
k + enter = exit confirmed here, linux.
I get always a crash when i look around with 'k' and press 'enter' to look in barrels or bins.Getting this crash as well.
Tested with Windows SDL and legacy version, new generated world.
why cant i make anyone to the militia commander? what trait do they need? only 2 of my 7 starters show up there... is this a new feature or a bug or whatever? i know that in military screen the squad leader was always just a few picks but in noble screen i could set anyone
Probably related to one of these changelog items:
(*)made militia commander assignment from noble screen respect current squad settings properly
(*)stopped dwarves from holding multiple positions that lead squads
but still: WHY?!
its a new fort they dont have other possitions (except the expediont leader CAN be selected and is already a noble of course), also my farmer, but not the miners, woodcutter (thats at least somewhat understandable because of the weapon assignment?) nor the peasant with only military skills (which i intended to use for that job) or the furnance operator
and there are no current squad settings until i set up a commander and create the squad?! i am confused :(
Download (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves) (Click refresh on your browser if it doesn't show up)
(*)made non-brewing events that create liquids handle alcohol correctly
Likely, though there's the problem of finding the space for a separate pillar tile.Quote(*)added pillar tile to d_initadded pillar tile to d_init
Oh damn, does this mean that nice tilesets will no longer have Os instead of pillars in their text?
Toady, what types of bugs will you concentrate on next? Will you fix the farming bug? Or marksdwarves? plaster powder? Combat balancing/bugs? Unkillable FBs?
Oldschool green question.
Fixed :)
Surgery will never be done. Once the patient is picked up they stop resting and go back to work.
k + enter = explosion
on apparently everything, not just barrels and bins
K + ENTER MAKES THE GAME EXPLODE...
Today, do a ninja-update for this ninja-bug!
K + ENTER MAKES THE GAME EXPLODE...
Today, do a ninja-update for this ninja-bug!
He has to wake up first since he probably went to bed shortly after he posted. Toady has an odd sleeping schedule.
Argh. K+enter.
What he offereth with the one hand he taketh with the other :'|
Still, at least I'll get some exam revision done today.
(*)stopped non-locals from announcing their item attachmentsNo more epic creatures battling forgotten beasts and having their weapons named? :-\
Quote(*)stopped non-locals from announcing their item attachmentsNo more epic creatures battling forgotten beasts and having their weapons named? :-\
Maybe try to track down what is causing the k+enter bug?
I'm not getting it on my transferred save game but I am in arena mode. Windows XP, SDL version.
Fix the archer bug, currently it is not possible for me to equip soldiers with bows and crossbows with the ammunition for their weapons.You can hunt. That's all I need mine for anyway. Real men fight with melee weapons. Real Dwarfs fight by dumping magma on there enemy!
Is the earth still overstuffed with minerals? That is for me number 1 bug, number two is disfunctional combat and number three is cold magma. I will start playing new DF after these 3 are fixed, not sooner.Until then im still running on old DF.1.What is the problem with that? Just means more metal for stuff.
k + enter = explosion
on apparently everything, not just barrels and bins
Wait, what?
I use k + enter all the time. Are you talking crashing? If so, I may be waiting for the next version release :/
I'm going to clean up that look crash... or rather, I already did, and it'll take 4 hours or something to get everything built again. So the links will be back up then.
It is still predominately yellow in full screen mode for PPC Macs. It makes the game extremtly hard to play, due to hampering the ability to identify anything.
K + ENTER MAKES THE GAME EXPLODE...
Today, do a ninja-update for this ninja-bug!
He has to wake up first since he probably went to bed shortly after he posted. Toady has an odd sleeping schedule.
I'm going to clean up that look crash... or rather, I already did, and it'll take 4 hours or something to get everything built again. So the links will be back up then.
Is the earth still overstuffed with minerals? That is for me number 1 bug, number two is disfunctional combat and number three is cold magma. I will start playing new DF after these 3 are fixed, not sooner.Until then im still running on old DF.
(down for a bit)
DOWNLOAD DWARF FORTRESS 0.31.08
There aren't many rocks that wouldn't at least soften a bit in contact with basaltic magma (rendering them useless for mechanisms) but rock is such a good insulator that even basalt would be good for walls (not that materials matter for that sort of thing). I'd say that if there were to be other magma-safe rocks than bauxite, they should be peridotite (what the game's olivine should be named) komatiite (the extrusive equivalent of peridotite) and kiln-fired kaolinite (actually used in the middle ages to make high temperature crucibles, so it's a sure candidate for mechanisms).Actually, Toady updated most stone properties in the 31.01 release to be more accurate (...apparently). For example, kaolinite (as you said) and every single ore of iron except limonite is now magmaproof. At least, I think those are magma-proof.
It is still predominately yellow in full screen mode for PPC Macs. It makes the game extremtly hard to play, due to hampering the ability to identify anything.
Can you post a screenshot, please?
Aaaaaaaaaaggggggghhhhhhh seriously i thought this would have been stable and finally sat down and dived into a fortress only to have it crash when trying to inspect a statues value. I waited an entire year for the caverns to come out hopefully i wont be waiting another year before its stable enough to play :(.
Aaaaaaaaaaggggggghhhhhhh seriously i thought this would have been stable and finally sat down and dived into a fortress only to have it crash when trying to inspect a statues value. I waited an entire year for the caverns to come out hopefully i wont be waiting another year before its stable enough to play :(.Really? If you can't handle a few crashes and bugs perhaps you should not be playing a game which is still in the alpha development stage.
Is dropping old graphics/raws into .08 enough to do an update for a graphics pack?
Aaaaaaaaaaggggggghhhhhhh seriously i thought this would have been stable and finally sat down and dived into a fortress only to have it crash when trying to inspect a statues value. I waited an entire year for the caverns to come out hopefully i wont be waiting another year before its stable enough to play :(.Really? If you can't handle a few crashes and bugs perhaps you should not be playing a game which is still in the alpha development stage.
Aaaaaaaaaaggggggghhhhhhh seriously i thought this would have been stable and finally sat down and dived into a fortress only to have it crash when trying to inspect a statues value. I waited an entire year for the caverns to come out hopefully i wont be waiting another year before its stable enough to play :(.Really? If you can't handle a few crashes and bugs perhaps you should not be playing a game which is still in the alpha development stage.
I've played alpha for probably 3 years now and one thing its always been is stable. I've handled bugs but in a game without saving a crash can be devastating esp when its right before a season change which i have for the auto save. I can actually say that i've never had DF crash on me before today in the entire time i've played it.
So the very first time DF has ever crashed for you, you run to the forum and post this melodramatic "I hope I don't have to wait ANOTHER YEAR" post even though, had you taken time to read the thread, you would have known that the bug had been identified and fixed already...?Aaaaaaaaaaggggggghhhhhhh seriously i thought this would have been stable and finally sat down and dived into a fortress only to have it crash when trying to inspect a statues value. I waited an entire year for the caverns to come out hopefully i wont be waiting another year before its stable enough to play :(.Really? If you can't handle a few crashes and bugs perhaps you should not be playing a game which is still in the alpha development stage.
I've played alpha for probably 3 years now and one thing its always been is stable. I've handled bugs but in a game without saving a crash can be devastating esp when its right before a season change which i have for the auto save. I can actually say that i've never had DF crash on me before today in the entire time i've played it.
Really? If you can't handle a few crashes and bugs perhaps you should not be playing a game which is still in the alpha development stage.Don't be silly. To think that users aren't allowed to be disappointed with crashes, and are at fault for wanting to play the new, shiny version, is petty and smallminded.
So the very first time DF has ever crashed for you, you run to the forum and post this melodramatic "I hope I don't have to wait ANOTHER YEAR" post even though, had you taken time to read the thread, you would have known that the bug had been identified and fixed already...?Aaaaaaaaaaggggggghhhhhhh seriously i thought this would have been stable and finally sat down and dived into a fortress only to have it crash when trying to inspect a statues value. I waited an entire year for the caverns to come out hopefully i wont be waiting another year before its stable enough to play :(.Really? If you can't handle a few crashes and bugs perhaps you should not be playing a game which is still in the alpha development stage.
I've played alpha for probably 3 years now and one thing its always been is stable. I've handled bugs but in a game without saving a crash can be devastating esp when its right before a season change which i have for the auto save. I can actually say that i've never had DF crash on me before today in the entire time i've played it.
Good job.
Yeah, go burn an elven village or something. Proven fact, burning elves lowers your stress count.So the very first time DF has ever crashed for you, you run to the forum and post this melodramatic "I hope I don't have to wait ANOTHER YEAR" post even though, had you taken time to read the thread, you would have known that the bug had been identified and fixed already...?Aaaaaaaaaaggggggghhhhhhh seriously i thought this would have been stable and finally sat down and dived into a fortress only to have it crash when trying to inspect a statues value. I waited an entire year for the caverns to come out hopefully i wont be waiting another year before its stable enough to play :(.Really? If you can't handle a few crashes and bugs perhaps you should not be playing a game which is still in the alpha development stage.
I've played alpha for probably 3 years now and one thing its always been is stable. I've handled bugs but in a game without saving a crash can be devastating esp when its right before a season change which i have for the auto save. I can actually say that i've never had DF crash on me before today in the entire time i've played it.
Good job.
Christ, who cares, just go play some .08
Re "cold magma": when I dump things into magma, .06 and now .08, they vaporize instantly. Poof, gone. Horse, hoof, cage and all. (It's not wrong to sacrifice wild horses to Armok... especially since they can't be trained as war animals :-X)
Re "cold magma": when I dump things into magma, .06 and now .08, they vaporize instantly. Poof, gone. Horse, hoof, cage and all. (It's not wrong to sacrifice wild horses to Armok... especially since they can't be trained as war animals :-X)
War Horses...hm...
Re "cold magma": when I dump things into magma, .06 and now .08, they vaporize instantly. Poof, gone. Horse, hoof, cage and all. (It's not wrong to sacrifice wild horses to Armok... especially since they can't be trained as war animals :-X)
War Horses...hm...
Is the earth still overstuffed with minerals? That is for me number 1 bug, number two is disfunctional combat and number three is cold magma. I will start playing new DF after these 3 are fixed, not sooner.Until then im still running on old DF.
Are you playing with temperature turned off? Or are you referring to there being more magma-safe rocks? Both of those can be changed on your end.
There aren't many rocks that wouldn't at least soften a bit in contact with basaltic magma (rendering them useless for mechanisms) but rock is such a good insulator that even basalt would be good for walls (not that materials matter for that sort of thing). I'd say that if there were to be other magma-safe rocks than bauxite, they should be peridotite (what the game's olivine should be named) komatiite (the extrusive equivalent of peridotite) and kiln-fired kaolinite (actually used in the middle ages to make high temperature crucibles, so it's a sure candidate for mechanisms).
...a legendary macedwarf pummel giant toad for good 270 pages of combat...Hmm, what a strange coincidence... ;)
...a legendary macedwarf pummel giant toad for good 270 pages of combat...Hmm, what a strange coincidence... ;)
Re "cold magma": when I dump things into magma, .06 and now .08, they vaporize instantly. Poof, gone. Horse, hoof, cage and all. (It's not wrong to sacrifice wild horses to Armok... especially since they can't be trained as war animals :-X)
War Horses...hm...
That's a slippery slope that leads to hunting horses, which are only a soap's throw from unicorns. *spit*
Trust me, nobody wants unicorn ambushe(r)s -- except their elfish masters, of course.
Wait shit the unkillable creatures still arent fixed in this release? that was pretty much my only beef with the new version.Same here.. I just can't go back to 40d, and can't play 2010 if there's a chance of my fort grinding to a halt as a result of a single forgotten beast made of ash.
Newsflash: "unkillable" forgotten beasts are only unkillable by soldiers/traps. Try using your mind! (Pitfalls, caveins, obsidian... etc..) I'm having a log of fun setting up a system that can deal with any creature the world sends my way.... I'm considering making a repeater design that can kill all sorts of demons as well ;)
Soo.... do we get Adventurer mode updates within the year? ;D
EDIT: And yeah, when Toady has written at the beginning of the month he was going to fix the military, I hoped he would fix the combat first, not the soap and cooking.
Ohh you cant use some arrow's. Big deal... Just pour magma on it or use Axe Lords to chop them to death or something.EDIT: And yeah, when Toady has written at the beginning of the month he was going to fix the military, I hoped he would fix the combat first, not the soap and cooking.
Not to imply that combat changes aren't urgent, but the soap problem was a highly unpredictable (from the player's standpoint) crash, and therefore worth fixing quickly. The cooking bug was stickied in the tracker because it had attracted a lot of duplicate reports.
Ohh you cant use some arrow's. Big deal... Just pour magma on it or use Axe Lords to chop them to death or something.
Fix more important bugs than the whole Archer Firing issues.
Ohh you cant use some arrow's. Big deal... Just pour magma on it or use Axe Lords to chop them to death or something.
Fix more important bugs than the whole Archer Firing issues.
I think I'm gonna start my personal Bay12 Hall of Fame.
Ohh you cant use some arrow's. Big deal... Just pour magma on it or use Axe Lords to chop them to death or something.
Fix more important bugs than the whole Archer Firing issues.
I think I'm gonna start my personal Bay12 Hall of Fame.
Maybe you should just keep playing old versions since you don't want any bugs to be fixed.
Bugs should always be fixed in order of severity (barring smaller ones that are *easy* fixes), so that the game is playable. Bugs with a straightforward workaround shouldn't be high priority; I'd rather have no marksdwarves then a crashing game.Maybe you should just keep playing old versions since you don't want any bugs to be fixed.
Another brilliant answer, good job.
Don't get me wrong, I do like bugs being fixed. For example, making the surgery work made me very happy because it means the several useless dwarves who had been lying in the hospital for a couple of years could get back to work. I also understand crashes and major annoyances (message spam) need to be fixed. It's just that two months after the initial release combat is just as broken as it was. I hoped it would get more attention - it's definitelly more important to get the combat right than to fix melting food or dwarves creating bad quality equipment due to tiredness.
All of this is of course debatable, but I don't like the arrogant way how some of you mock anyone who seems to complain or be frustrated about something. Mockery is no debate. It just paints Bay12 Forums as a bunch of elitists.
Newsflash: "unkillable" forgotten beasts are only unkillable by soldiers/traps. Try using your mind! (Pitfalls, caveins, obsidian... etc..) I'm having a log of fun setting up a system that can deal with any creature the world sends my way.... I'm considering making a repeater design that can kill all sorts of demons as well ;)
I can't believe how every time someone is frustrated about a terribly unbalanced or broken aspect of the game, there will be someone who tells them: "It's a feature and it's your fault you can't deal with it." Bravo, IronValley.
EDIT: And yeah, when Toady has written at the beginning of the month he was going to fix the military, I hoped he would fix the combat first, not the soap and cooking.
Ah! Because the in game tools aren't verbose enough that game aspect is broken. I also don't see how any of your proposed expanded tool selection wouldn't require luck preparation or micromanagement.
Creatures unkillable by normal means would actually be a nice gameplay element if the game gave you tools to handle it. Right now, you can't really order individual dwarves to eg. lure the creature into a trap. You can't kill it by catapults. You can't organize a group of vigilantes with a giant net, and even if you can build a structure above the creature to kill it with cave-in, the game fights back against you with job cancellations. In other words, to kill an unkillable beast you must micromanage the hell out of the game, be prepared in advance, hope for the best, and even there's a huge chance you won't succeed and that the beast will ruin a game. If you are not a very experienced player, you can only watch how the creature kills your dwarves one by one. That fulfills my definition of a bug, not a feature.
But see above - unkillable beast are just one part of the horrible unbalanced mess called combat.
EDIT: I have the same gripe against "poisonous vapours". There's absolutelly no way to protect oneself against these. Anyone you send against a creature with poisonous vapours is as good as dead, and there's absolutelly no tools to handle it. This is what I call a bug... or a horrible, horrible design decision.
No, there no way you can protect yourself from deadly vapors. Air tightness wasn't very common for c1400 europe.
No, there no way you can protect yourself from deadly vapors. Air tightness wasn't very common for c1400 europe. I also don't see this as an any more of an obstacle then other unkillable FB. Similar in game tools would still need to be applied. Be it so when the trap is sprung there as little #s dorf in the trap room.
The argument fails, as there ways to deal with it. Just not your preferred ways.
No, there no way you can protect yourself from deadly vapors. Air tightness wasn't very common for c1400 europe.
You mean adding towering, poison-spewing beasts is OK, while adding ways to deal with them would be unrealistic?
You know, that's actually pretty true. I mean, I'm sure Toady knew what he was doing when he updated creatures. I mean, something made out of, say, Slade or Adamantium would be unkillable by any normal means anyway.
I think the problem Jiri Petru has with the unkillable FB's isn't that they're in the game at all, but in how often they appear (which is, very often).
Dump some magma on it.The argument fails, as there ways to deal with it. Just not your preferred ways.
No, there no way you can protect yourself from deadly vapors. Air tightness wasn't very common for c1400 europe.
You mean adding towering, poison-spewing beasts is OK, while adding ways to deal with them would be unrealistic?
You know, that's actually pretty true. I mean, I'm sure Toady knew what he was doing when he updated creatures. I mean, something made out of, say, Slade or Adamantium would be unkillable by any normal means anyway.
I think the problem Jiri Petru has with the unkillable FB's isn't that they're in the game at all, but in how often they appear (which is, very often).
You are ignoring the actual reason why certain things are unkillable.
Things like Bronze Colossi are unkillable because of issues with how the game handles damage. That's it. We aren't dealing with giant untouchable demons made out of pure adamantine, we're dealing with things you can ostensibly harm.
You can sever parts off a bronze colossus (or presumably, many of the FBs that aren't "killable"), and even shatter parts of it. The issue is that the game does not deal with stacking damage very well, if at all, so it's seemingly impossible to sever (or otherwise utterly destroy) a part of any creature unless you manage to do it in a single blow. By analogy, if woodcutting worked like that in DF, you'd never be able to chop down a tree unless you somehow forged an axe that could do it in one strike.
The issue isn't that a beast you can't kill through normal means is a bad idea - that's a whole other debate. It also isn't, strictly speaking, a "balance" issue. The issue is that currently, the beasts are like that through unintended quirks and problems within the damage/wound model, and ones that result in problems in other, slightly less-obvious areas of combat as well.
It's helpful to consider why the game is exhibiting certain behavior instead of jumping to conclusions about whether or not it's good or intended - and, in fact, before arguing about it at all.
Encasing in ice/magma Always works. ;D I think ???You know, that's actually pretty true. I mean, I'm sure Toady knew what he was doing when he updated creatures. I mean, something made out of, say, Slade or Adamantium would be unkillable by any normal means anyway.
I think the problem Jiri Petru has with the unkillable FB's isn't that they're in the game at all, but in how often they appear (which is, very often).
You are ignoring the actual reason why certain things are unkillable.
Things like Bronze Colossi are unkillable because of issues with how the game handles damage. That's it. We aren't dealing with giant untouchable demons made out of pure adamantine, we're dealing with things you can ostensibly harm.
You can sever parts off a bronze colossus (or presumably, many of the FBs that aren't "killable"), and even shatter parts of it. The issue is that the game does not deal with stacking damage very well, if at all, so it's seemingly impossible to sever (or otherwise utterly destroy) a part of any creature unless you manage to do it in a single blow. By analogy, if woodcutting worked like that in DF, you'd never be able to chop down a tree unless you somehow forged an axe that could do it in one strike.
The issue isn't that a beast you can't kill through normal means is a bad idea - that's a whole other debate. It also isn't, strictly speaking, a "balance" issue. The issue is that currently, the beasts are like that through unintended quirks and problems within the damage/wound model, and ones that result in problems in other, slightly less-obvious areas of combat as well.
It's helpful to consider why the game is exhibiting certain behavior instead of jumping to conclusions about whether or not it's good or intended - and, in fact, before arguing about it at all.
Actually, I thought the game didn't compound damage at all, which I accept is an overlooked problem (so far, which is the reason why an "inorganic" can end up with multiple red body parts, while not actually being any closer to dying than it was when it started the fight). I just wanted to say that certain things would be literally unkillable by normal means.
Encasing in ice/magma Always works. ;D I think ???You know, that's actually pretty true. I mean, I'm sure Toady knew what he was doing when he updated creatures. I mean, something made out of, say, Slade or Adamantium would be unkillable by any normal means anyway.
I think the problem Jiri Petru has with the unkillable FB's isn't that they're in the game at all, but in how often they appear (which is, very often).
You are ignoring the actual reason why certain things are unkillable.
Things like Bronze Colossi are unkillable because of issues with how the game handles damage. That's it. We aren't dealing with giant untouchable demons made out of pure adamantine, we're dealing with things you can ostensibly harm.
You can sever parts off a bronze colossus (or presumably, many of the FBs that aren't "killable"), and even shatter parts of it. The issue is that the game does not deal with stacking damage very well, if at all, so it's seemingly impossible to sever (or otherwise utterly destroy) a part of any creature unless you manage to do it in a single blow. By analogy, if woodcutting worked like that in DF, you'd never be able to chop down a tree unless you somehow forged an axe that could do it in one strike.
The issue isn't that a beast you can't kill through normal means is a bad idea - that's a whole other debate. It also isn't, strictly speaking, a "balance" issue. The issue is that currently, the beasts are like that through unintended quirks and problems within the damage/wound model, and ones that result in problems in other, slightly less-obvious areas of combat as well.
It's helpful to consider why the game is exhibiting certain behavior instead of jumping to conclusions about whether or not it's good or intended - and, in fact, before arguing about it at all.
Actually, I thought the game didn't compound damage at all, which I accept is an overlooked problem (so far, which is the reason why an "inorganic" can end up with multiple red body parts, while not actually being any closer to dying than it was when it started the fight). I just wanted to say that certain things would be literally unkillable by normal means.
I thought the demons evaporated all water within a few tiles of them, making it impossible to actually do magma+water=obsidian.Encasing in ice/magma Always works. ;D I think ???You know, that's actually pretty true. I mean, I'm sure Toady knew what he was doing when he updated creatures. I mean, something made out of, say, Slade or Adamantium would be unkillable by any normal means anyway.
I think the problem Jiri Petru has with the unkillable FB's isn't that they're in the game at all, but in how often they appear (which is, very often).
You are ignoring the actual reason why certain things are unkillable.
Things like Bronze Colossi are unkillable because of issues with how the game handles damage. That's it. We aren't dealing with giant untouchable demons made out of pure adamantine, we're dealing with things you can ostensibly harm.
You can sever parts off a bronze colossus (or presumably, many of the FBs that aren't "killable"), and even shatter parts of it. The issue is that the game does not deal with stacking damage very well, if at all, so it's seemingly impossible to sever (or otherwise utterly destroy) a part of any creature unless you manage to do it in a single blow. By analogy, if woodcutting worked like that in DF, you'd never be able to chop down a tree unless you somehow forged an axe that could do it in one strike.
The issue isn't that a beast you can't kill through normal means is a bad idea - that's a whole other debate. It also isn't, strictly speaking, a "balance" issue. The issue is that currently, the beasts are like that through unintended quirks and problems within the damage/wound model, and ones that result in problems in other, slightly less-obvious areas of combat as well.
It's helpful to consider why the game is exhibiting certain behavior instead of jumping to conclusions about whether or not it's good or intended - and, in fact, before arguing about it at all.
Actually, I thought the game didn't compound damage at all, which I accept is an overlooked problem (so far, which is the reason why an "inorganic" can end up with multiple red body parts, while not actually being any closer to dying than it was when it started the fight). I just wanted to say that certain things would be literally unkillable by normal means.
Yeah, thankfully. :)
"The Obsidian Solution. Even works on giant untouchable demons made out of pure adamantine."
I thought the demons evaporated all water within a few tiles of them, making it impossible to actually do magma+water=obsidian.Encasing in ice/magma Always works. ;D I think ???You know, that's actually pretty true. I mean, I'm sure Toady knew what he was doing when he updated creatures. I mean, something made out of, say, Slade or Adamantium would be unkillable by any normal means anyway.
I think the problem Jiri Petru has with the unkillable FB's isn't that they're in the game at all, but in how often they appear (which is, very often).
You are ignoring the actual reason why certain things are unkillable.
Things like Bronze Colossi are unkillable because of issues with how the game handles damage. That's it. We aren't dealing with giant untouchable demons made out of pure adamantine, we're dealing with things you can ostensibly harm.
You can sever parts off a bronze colossus (or presumably, many of the FBs that aren't "killable"), and even shatter parts of it. The issue is that the game does not deal with stacking damage very well, if at all, so it's seemingly impossible to sever (or otherwise utterly destroy) a part of any creature unless you manage to do it in a single blow. By analogy, if woodcutting worked like that in DF, you'd never be able to chop down a tree unless you somehow forged an axe that could do it in one strike.
The issue isn't that a beast you can't kill through normal means is a bad idea - that's a whole other debate. It also isn't, strictly speaking, a "balance" issue. The issue is that currently, the beasts are like that through unintended quirks and problems within the damage/wound model, and ones that result in problems in other, slightly less-obvious areas of combat as well.
It's helpful to consider why the game is exhibiting certain behavior instead of jumping to conclusions about whether or not it's good or intended - and, in fact, before arguing about it at all.
Actually, I thought the game didn't compound damage at all, which I accept is an overlooked problem (so far, which is the reason why an "inorganic" can end up with multiple red body parts, while not actually being any closer to dying than it was when it started the fight). I just wanted to say that certain things would be literally unkillable by normal means.
Yeah, thankfully. :)
"The Obsidian Solution. Even works on giant untouchable demons made out of pure adamantine."
Hm, am I the only one whose dwarfs suddendly refuse to eat prepared meals?
(the bug tracker won't let me register for some reason, can't check there, sorry)
I agree with those that believe that the combat issues need to be number one priority. That has prevented me from really diving into a new fort. Before I dedicate my time to such a significant project, I need to know how the rules are going to be finalized so I know what to build. I don't want to learn a system that is on the cusp of changing. I don't wanna build a fort suited to broken game mechanics.
I don't care about crash bugs. I can reload the game from autosave and then just not do what I did or whatever. How do I build my army? That's what I wanna know!
Once dwarves have to buy their food, they tend to avoid ones that are valuable. Are they starving themselves before eating them?
Funny story about forgotten beasts.
I was playing last night trying to figure out how to kill my forgotten beast in my caverns. It was a steam monster with 3 horns. Either way I activated my military and sent it to kill the bastard and one of my lowly recruits killed the beast just by punching it according to the battle report. I thought that was kinda funny and strange so I had to share :).
Did you accidentally forbid the food by any chance? Like when area-forbidding things?Once dwarves have to buy their food, they tend to avoid ones that are valuable. Are they starving themselves before eating them?
I'm still with only a mayor, so it's all communistic and nobody has to pay for anything. I just got a "hunting for vermin" from a dwarf who's only about 20 steps away from a stockpile full of prepared meals. And there have been a lot of "cancels Give Food: No food available"
not sure if anyone else is getting this, but my dwarves are refusing to dump items in this version for some reason. got 12 idling dwarves,a all with all sorts of hauling enabled, a massive, empty garbage zone, a lot of stone designated to be dumped, and everyone's ignoring it.Do you have them set to ignore refuse outside? It is on by default...
not sure if anyone else is getting this, but my dwarves are refusing to dump items in this version for some reason. got 12 idling dwarves,a all with all sorts of hauling enabled, a massive, empty garbage zone, a lot of stone designated to be dumped, and everyone's ignoring it.Do you have them set to ignore refuse outside? It is on by default...
You know, that's actually pretty true. I mean, I'm sure Toady knew what he was doing when he updated creatures. I mean, something made out of, say, Slade or Adamantium would be unkillable by any normal means anyway.
I think the problem Jiri Petru has with the unkillable FB's isn't that they're in the game at all, but in how often they appear (which is, very often).
You are ignoring the actual reason why certain things are unkillable.
Things like Bronze Colossi are unkillable because of issues with how the game handles damage. That's it. We aren't dealing with giant untouchable demons made out of pure adamantine, we're dealing with things you can ostensibly harm.
You can sever parts off a bronze colossus (or presumably, many of the FBs that aren't "killable"), and even shatter parts of it. The issue is that the game does not deal with stacking damage very well, if at all, so it's seemingly impossible to sever (or otherwise utterly destroy) a part of any creature unless you manage to do it in a single blow. By analogy, if woodcutting worked like that in DF, you'd never be able to chop down a tree unless you somehow forged an axe that could do it in one strike.
The issue isn't that a beast you can't kill through normal means is a bad idea - that's a whole other debate. It also isn't, strictly speaking, a "balance" issue. The issue is that currently, the beasts are like that through unintended quirks and problems within the damage/wound model, and ones that result in problems in other, slightly less-obvious areas of combat as well.
It's helpful to consider why the game is exhibiting certain behavior instead of jumping to conclusions about whether or not it's good or intended - and, in fact, before arguing about it at all.
Actually, I thought the game didn't compound damage at all, which I accept is an overlooked problem (so far, which is the reason why an "inorganic" can end up with multiple red body parts, while not actually being any closer to dying than it was when it started the fight). I just wanted to say that certain things would be literally unkillable by normal means.
The weirdest thing to consider is how the game should treat creatures made out of gaseous (or similar) substances, like steam or fire. How exactly DO you fight something like that? Fan away the material until it gets disassociated enough to waft away?Well if you're a dwarf, you take a swig of plump helmet wine, grab your fungiwood training axe, pull your kitten leather helm firmly onto your head and GO KILL THE FUCK OUT OF IT.
Toady stop releasing so fast! Hard to keep up with you for packaging ;Pfaster == better!
Ahh just got done downloading .07!Toady stop releasing so fast! Hard to keep up with you for packaging ;Pfaster == better!
Did you accidentally forbid the food by any chance? Like when area-forbidding things?
Well, I shall go and test!Did you accidentally forbid the food by any chance? Like when area-forbidding things?
Nope, checked that. :) There's booze in the same stockpile and they're drinking that quite happily...
maybe related to the fix stopping them using liquids as a base?
Until then I will just stick to other games or perhaps (gasp!) go outside.
.08 crashed when I used the look command and tried to move the cursor over a refuse stockpile.Just tried this, works for me using loo(k) over a refuse stockpile.
Until then I will just stick to other games or perhaps (gasp!) go outside.Jesus Christ, man, why are you acting so self-righteous? You're on the internet arguing about a game called Dwarf Fortress. Sure, so am I, but at least I'm not acting like I'm the only one that plays sports or knows what the sky looks like.
If some bug is a game killer than just relax and wait until it gets fixed. I'm sure you can find something else to occupy your time until then especially if Toady keeps up at the pace he is with knocking out one thing after another.
learn to give consolations to frustrated peopleWhat is this, a therapy session? We don't need to console someone because they're upset about a fucking video game. Grow a beard, son, and take off those elf ears!
.08 crashed when I used the look command and tried to move the cursor over a refuse stockpile.
.08 crashed when I used the look command and tried to move the cursor over a refuse stockpile.
Try with a fresh download or something......
Idk if this is a bug or not but often I have dwarves sleeping in other dwarves houses that barley know each other and there is plenty of other free beds and ones that aren't even designated to be rooms available.
Until then I will just stick to other games or perhaps (gasp!) go outside.Jesus Christ, man, why are you acting so self-righteous? You're on the internet arguing about a game called Dwarf Fortress. Sure, so am I, but at least I'm not acting like I'm the only one that plays sports or knows what the sky looks like.
If some bug is a game killer than just relax and wait until it gets fixed. I'm sure you can find something else to occupy your time until then especially if Toady keeps up at the pace he is with knocking out one thing after another.
The weirdest thing to consider is how the game should treat creatures made out of gaseous (or similar) substances, like steam or fire. How exactly DO you fight something like that? Fan away the material until it gets disassociated enough to waft away?Well if you're a dwarf, you take a swig of plump helmet wine, grab your fungiwood training axe, pull your kitten leather helm firmly onto your head and GO KILL THE FUCK OUT OF IT.
It doesn't need to make sense.
Downloaded .08 and world gen took something like an hour, on a quad core with 8GB of memory.What's the Ghz per core? DF only uses one core for the game, and another for graphics (which uses very little memory anyway).
It was a large region gen.
No further details now, going out to the movies, but will see what's up when I return.
EDIT: I have the same gripe against "poisonous vapours". There's absolutelly no way to protect oneself against these. Anyone you send against a creature with poisonous vapours is as good as dead, and there's absolutelly no tools to handle it. This is what I call a bug... or a horrible, horrible design decision.
No, there no way you can protect yourself from deadly vapors. Air tightness wasn't very common for c1400 europe. I also don't see this as an any more of an obstacle then other unkillable FB. Similar in game tools would still need to be applied. Be it so when the trap is sprung there as little #s dorf in the trap room.
learn to give consolations to frustrated peopleWhat is this, a therapy session? We don't need to console someone because they're upset about a fucking video game. Grow a beard, son, and take off those elf ears!
Once dwarves have to buy their food, they tend to avoid ones that are valuable. Are they starving themselves before eating them?
I'm still with only a mayor, so it's all communistic and nobody has to pay for anything. I just got a "hunting for vermin" from a dwarf who's only about 20 steps away from a stockpile full of prepared meals. And there have been a lot of "cancels Give Food: No food available"
Is Economy on? Maybe he can't pay for food. Though I never have Economy on so I don't know.Once dwarves have to buy their food, they tend to avoid ones that are valuable. Are they starving themselves before eating them?
I'm still with only a mayor, so it's all communistic and nobody has to pay for anything. I just got a "hunting for vermin" from a dwarf who's only about 20 steps away from a stockpile full of prepared meals. And there have been a lot of "cancels Give Food: No food available"
Sounds like you have a warren issue or your food got marked forbidden somehow.
2.8 GHz per core, it was taking 25-50% of one core while I was looking at it. Which indicates a likely problem with blocking on some kind of non-CPU activity, since a program like DF should usually take either close to 100% or nothing, especially in a compute-intensive phase like world gen. In particular, it was running through the history events.Downloaded .08 and world gen took something like an hour, on a quad core with 8GB of memory.What's the Ghz per core? DF only uses one core for the game, and another for graphics (which uses very little memory anyway).
It was a large region gen.
No further details now, going out to the movies, but will see what's up when I return.
It also matters whether he was using the SDL or legacy versions, and in the case of SDL, which graphics options he chose. Also, what his world generation parameters are.
2.8 GHz per core, it was taking 25-50% of one core while I was looking at it. Which indicates a likely problem with blocking on some kind of non-CPU activity, since a program like DF should usually take either close to 100% or nothing, especially in a compute-intensive phase like world gen. In particular, it was running through the history events.Downloaded .08 and world gen took something like an hour, on a quad core with 8GB of memory.What's the Ghz per core? DF only uses one core for the game, and another for graphics (which uses very little memory anyway).
It was a large region gen.
No further details now, going out to the movies, but will see what's up when I return.
I'm looking in a tool that reports on a per core basis, including real-time which core a program is running on. 8)2.8 GHz per core, it was taking 25-50% of one core while I was looking at it. Which indicates a likely problem with blocking on some kind of non-CPU activity, since a program like DF should usually take either close to 100% or nothing, especially in a compute-intensive phase like world gen. In particular, it was running through the history events.Downloaded .08 and world gen took something like an hour, on a quad core with 8GB of memory.What's the Ghz per core? DF only uses one core for the game, and another for graphics (which uses very little memory anyway).
It was a large region gen.
No further details now, going out to the movies, but will see what's up when I return.
There's a good chance that 25% you're seeing is not a per-core estimate.
I don't think it's unusual for it to take an hour to generate a large world. How long does a standard Medium Island take?About 5 minutes. I guess the large one isn't really needed anyway, just tried it to see how long it takes. ;) As long as the answer isn't "OMG that's 10x longer than it used to be for that option" not sure it's worth the trouble to look into. Yet...
What's the Ghz per core? DF only uses one core for the game, and another for graphics (which uses very little memory anyway).
Forbidding it in his inventory should do the trick. Else mark it for dumping and somebody will hopefully come and wrestle it away from him.
Try telling that to a mayor who ended up with Legendary Consoler skill after stopping numerous tantrum spirals from art defacement before they happened.learn to give consolations to frustrated peopleWhat is this, a therapy session? We don't need to console someone because they're upset about a fucking video game. Grow a beard, son, and take off those elf ears!
Quotemaybe related to the fix stopping them using liquids as a base?Yup.. seems all my 'Made from Beer only' prepared meals are also lying untouched, while my 'Kitten Chow' meals are being consumed at a normal dwarfly pace. Time to do some trading!
Order him into a one-square burrow and wall him in. You'd be doing him a kindness, really.
Could have sworn they were walking through the forbidden door in .06 though. It'd change the door message from "Forbidden" to "USED BY INTRUDER"Pretty sure the intruder message is only for, you know, intruders. Not guests, like the traders.
Could have sworn they were walking through the forbidden door in .06 though. It'd change the door message from "Forbidden" to "USED BY INTRUDER"Pretty sure the intruder message is only for, you know, intruders. Not guests, like the traders.
You can inscribe your furniture with messages and the AI will read it? o_o
I didn't read the whole thread, feel free to yell at me if this has already been mentioned/solved.
I seem to have a new bug.
If I look at someone, and then hit enter to see more detail, the game crashes.
This happened when I was looking at a titan that'd wandered onto my map, as well as a couple times when I was looking at my dwarves. I'm fine if I go in through the unit screen instead. It's just from the look prompt that things break.
I was fine under 31.06, I skipped 31.07, and I'm now running (and breaking) 31.08
What you describe was the bug in 31.07 that was fixed in 31.08. It sounds like you did not actually install 31.08 and instead are playing 31.07. You should re-download and reinstall.
Had my crafter decorating beds (and the occasional totem) on loop, pile of shells and bones to the left, pile of beds to the right. Then he somehow stopped taking in new beds and decorated one bed over and over again. Weird.
So I'm wondering, has anyone had any troubles with the SDL version? Resizing? Zoom? Keyboard input? Anything?
I'm feeling a bit forgotten, here. ???
So I'm wondering, has anyone had any troubles with the SDL version? Resizing? Zoom? Keyboard input? Anything?You are not forgotten, we love you in our own way. ;D
I'm feeling a bit forgotten, here. ???
Forbidding it in his inventory should do the trick. Else mark it for dumping and somebody will hopefully come and wrestle it away from him.
Forbidding it didn't help - it just becomes unforbidden, and mysteriously leaves a mark of strawberry wine on the floor.
Dumping didn't seem to do anything at all.
But maybe I didn't give it enough time.
So I'm wondering, has anyone had any troubles with the SDL version? Resizing? Zoom? Keyboard input? Anything?
I'm feeling a bit forgotten, here. ???
So I'm wondering, has anyone had any troubles with the SDL version? Resizing? Zoom? Keyboard input? Anything?
I'm feeling a bit forgotten, here. ???
So I'm wondering, has anyone had any troubles with the SDL version? Resizing? Zoom? Keyboard input? Anything?
I'm feeling a bit forgotten, here. ???
So I'm wondering, has anyone had any troubles with the SDL version? Resizing? Zoom? Keyboard input? Anything?I still have that annoying bug with SDL, when it will keep repeating any keystroke w/out stop if i dont place cursor exactly at game window's title.
I'm feeling a bit forgotten, here. ???
I don't know if this is just me, but when I use the mouse to designate digging or whatever, I can only designate in the upper part of the window, which happens to coincide with how big the window was originally. I'm using the linux SDL version.I noticed this, for plant gathering. If I'm designating by mouse for whatever obscure reason, I can't designate plants for a few tiles at the right and bottom borders. Even without resizing the screen.
So I'm wondering, has anyone had any troubles with the SDL version? Resizing? Zoom? Keyboard input? Anything?
I'm feeling a bit forgotten, here. ???
I set up an armour, weapon and ammo stockpile quite early on in the game, and when I got some migrants later, they deposited anything that fit those categories into the relevant stockpile. I had a few hunters arrive, who promptly became useless because they chucked their ammo and crossbows into the ammo/weapon stockpiles.Your complaint is that they're putting things in the correct stockpiles?
Anyone else experiencing this?
I love the SDL stuff. I'm new, so I never saw the old bugs that supposedly haunted it.1920x1080 here but yeah, its awesome.
But having a 1920x1200 dwarf fortress is pure love.
in other news, my dwarves will not use obsidian for anything but swords, and there isn't an entry for it in the stone menu. Is this another oversight on my part, or is it simply absent for no good reason?It is a bug since 0.31.01. You can remove the "[MAXEDGE:20000]" from the raw for it and then it will appear in the Stones menu. Once you have set the menu how you want Obsidian to bethen put the MAXEDGE back to allow it to be used for swords.
I set up an armour, weapon and ammo stockpile quite early on in the game, and when I got some migrants later, they deposited anything that fit those categories into the relevant stockpile. I had a few hunters arrive, who promptly became useless because they chucked their ammo and crossbows into the ammo/weapon stockpiles.Your complaint is that they're putting things in the correct stockpiles?
Anyone else experiencing this?
Unless they are set to use the equipment, they are supposed to remove it and store it.
I set up an armour, weapon and ammo stockpile quite early on in the game, and when I got some migrants later, they deposited anything that fit those categories into the relevant stockpile. I had a few hunters arrive, who promptly became useless because they chucked their ammo and crossbows into the ammo/weapon stockpiles.Your complaint is that they're putting things in the correct stockpiles?
Anyone else experiencing this?
Unless they are set to use the equipment, they are supposed to remove it and store it.
What is described here is probably bug #110, Migrant hunters/miners/woodcutters can arrive with labors disabled, causing them to drop equipment (http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=110 (http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=110)). So to begin with your conclusion is wrong.I set up an armour, weapon and ammo stockpile quite early on in the game, and when I got some migrants later, they deposited anything that fit those categories into the relevant stockpile. I had a few hunters arrive, who promptly became useless because they chucked their ammo and crossbows into the ammo/weapon stockpiles.Your complaint is that they're putting things in the correct stockpiles?
Anyone else experiencing this?
Unless they are set to use the equipment, they are supposed to remove it and store it.
Well all that seems to be working just fine, not that I'm all that big on the zoom function personally. I would like to see an option for a persistent maximized window but that's just a minor detail.In Windows, if you create a shortcut for DF you can set it to start maximized in the properties for the shortcut.
Well all that seems to be working just fine, not that I'm all that big on the zoom function personally. I would like to see an option for a persistent maximized window but that's just a minor detail.In Windows, if you create a shortcut for DF you can set it to start maximized in the properties for the shortcut.
Did I write this?Well all that seems to be working just fine, not that I'm all that big on the zoom function personally. I would like to see an option for a persistent maximized window but that's just a minor detail.In Windows, if you create a shortcut for DF you can set it to start maximized in the properties for the shortcut.
Appearently you can have two merchants or more.Yep, it always did this, although it seldom happened in the vanilla old versions.
It asks you which ones you want to trade with. How cool.
Damn see thats the kinda bugs that make the game unplayable.Your opinion is interesting; however not in any useful way. For the game to be "unplayable" it would have to crash at launch, have no display, not accept any user input, etc. The current combat bugs can make things very difficult when you encounter them. All of them are avoidable if you wish to play with out getting into fights. Many cause some creatures to be immune to some attacks, this is GOOD thing. Being able to kill everything with a single tactic is dull.
It does make sense for things dropped into magma to not burn.
It does make sense for things dropped into magma to not burn. Oxygen is required for combustion, and while an item is immersed in anything denser than air it will not be available for combustion. Whether Toady did that intentionally or by happy mistake it is still good.
Heat and cold damages not affecting/killing undead ceatures is still a bug that should be corrected.
Your opinion is interesting; however not in any useful way. For the game to be "unplayable" it would have to crash at launch, have no display, not accept any user input, etc. The current combat bugs can make things very difficult when you encounter them. All of them are avoidable if you wish to play with out getting into fights. Many cause some creatures to be immune to some attacks, this is GOOD thing. Being able to kill everything with a single tactic is dull.
Items don't float in fluids yet. Creatures sometimes realize they can float; but sudden death by immolation tends to preclude that in magma. I recall in some version past I dropped some coal into my refuse disposal. I was quite irritated that it was pumping smoke into my fortress for a whole season despite having 2 levels of magma above it. I haven't tested that with this version, but anyway.It does make sense for things dropped into magma to not burn.
Dropped in magma != submerged in magma.
I'm trying to play on linux mint but every time I run it nothing happens. If I run in the terminal I get "./libs/Dwarf_Fortress: error while loading shared libraries: libncursesw.so.5: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory". I checked, I have a package called libncursesw5 installed.
I'm trying to play on linux mint but every time I run it nothing happens. If I run in the terminal I get "./libs/Dwarf_Fortress: error while loading shared libraries: libncursesw.so.5: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory". I checked, I have a package called libncursesw5 installed.
I'm trying to play on linux mint but every time I run it nothing happens. If I run in the terminal I get "./libs/Dwarf_Fortress: error while loading shared libraries: libncursesw.so.5: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory". I checked, I have a package called libncursesw5 installed.
If you are on an amd64 ("64 bit") platform, you should realize that the Linux version of Dwarf Fortress is an i386 ("32 bit") executable, and as such, it needs i386 versions of the shared libraries. So, find and install the i386 version of libncursesw.
That did it. Had to download libncursesw5 from the debian website, and extract two of the files (libncursesw.so.5 and libncursesw.so.5.7) into the libs folder of df. You should perhaps include these for 64bit linux users, it'd only be 488kb.You can't generally mix interface libraries like that. In this particular case, there are (at least) two different ways to set up the terminal database, and your version of ncurses has to match the method used by your distribution; not all distributions do it the same way. In your case, you were lucky enough to get a working library, but it's not really something we can risk.
It does make sense for things dropped into magma to not burn. Oxygen is required for combustion, and while an item is immersed in anything denser than air it will not be available for combustion. Whether Toady did that intentionally or by happy mistake it is still good.
Heat and cold damages not affecting/killing undead ceatures is still a bug that should be corrected.
Small clarification on what I said earlier.
Good idea: some creatures to be immune to some attacks.
Bad idea: for severe bugs to crop up that happen to make creatures invincible for no good reason.
You could just remove those.Small clarification on what I said earlier.Deon's bad idea: in Genesis mod, some dwarf castes have firebreath, some shoot webs, some spray paralyzing toxin.
Good idea: some creatures to be immune to some attacks.
Bad idea: for severe bugs to crop up that happen to make creatures invincible for no good reason.
Of course I removed the special attacks. A toxin-sprayer dwarf killed 90% of my war dogs in a big melee.Deon's bad idea: in Genesis mod, some dwarf castes have firebreath, some shoot webs, some spray paralyzing toxin.You could just remove those. And The Fire breath and all seems like a good idea to me. Though it seems more of a Mutated Dwarf. It is fun to set your enemy on fire!
abadidea: Bugged soap.
abadidea: Bugged soap.
Ahhhhh. I put all the effort into making a few bars of soap because some poor guy had been on the operating table for literally years. He's walking again so I guess it worked.
Heh, I guess the SDL version just isn't meant to be for me. No matter what I do, I can't get past 1 fps. Already did drivers and anything else I could think of =|
The title screen and menus are fine, its just when the game is actually running and unpaused D=
How do you satisfy "Body Parts"? I slaughter a lot of animals with all type of parts in a pile, but the dwarf still go mad without getting them.
He was looking for shells, a relic from 40d when it was much easier to get shells.
The title screen and menus are fine, its just when the game is actually running and unpaused D=This indicates that it is not a problem with the SDL version. You likely have a a creature stuck in a pathing loop, hidden waterfalls, etc eating up speed. It is also possible that you have too large of a world or embark area for your computers memory. Check the errorlog.txt for pathing errors, using a utility to reveal the map might be helpful in diagnosing hidden problems, and lack of memory can be quickly diagnosed by watching your hard drive activity.
The title screen and menus are fine, its just when the game is actually running and unpaused D=This indicates that it is not a problem with the SDL version. You likely have a a creature stuck in a pathing loop, hidden waterfalls, etc eating up speed. It is also possible that you have too large of a world or embark area for your computers memory. Check the errorlog.txt for pathing errors, using a utility to reveal the map might be helpful in diagnosing hidden problems, and lack of memory can be quickly diagnosed by watching your hard drive activity.
You should check your jobs list for levers on repeat pull. Even when the lever isn't hooked to anything it will cause a small slowdown.
Carving ramps and opening/closing floodgates/bridges cause significant slowdowns as they cause the connection map to be rebuilt.
If there is no obvious cause for the problem then you should probably post the save so it can be examined.
Shells are bugged? :o
I could have sworn I saw a Mussel Shell around here somewhere.
On a more useful note, I'm playing with a PPC Mac and my colors are normal.
Shells are bugged? :o
They aren't bugged; they're just harder to get. I usually get clams, turtles, etc. from traders, and then you need to designate an indoor stockpile that just takes remains from them so the shells will be put there and not outside where they decay.
Shells are bugged? :o
They aren't bugged; they're just harder to get. I usually get clams, turtles, etc. from traders, and then you need to designate an indoor stockpile that just takes remains from them so the shells will be put there and not outside where they decay.
That doesn't work any more. In 40d, you got a shell when you consumed an (uncooked) cave lobster or turtle. The shell was left behind at the table. In DF2010 (0.31.*) you get a shell when you prepare a freshly caught lobster/turtle. The shell is left behind in the fishery. The already-prepared (but not cooked) lobsters/turtles the traders bring you have no shells.
As I understand it, the only way to get shells in DF2010 is to catch your own lobsters/turtles and prepare them in a fishery.
Shells are bugged? :o
They aren't bugged; they're just harder to get. I usually get clams, turtles, etc. from traders, and then you need to designate an indoor stockpile that just takes remains from them so the shells will be put there and not outside where they decay.
That doesn't work any more. In 40d, you got a shell when you consumed an (uncooked) cave lobster or turtle. The shell was left behind at the table. In DF2010 (0.31.*) you get a shell when you prepare a freshly caught lobster/turtle. The shell is left behind in the fishery. The already-prepared (but not cooked) lobsters/turtles the traders bring you have no shells.
As I understand it, the only way to get shells in DF2010 is to catch your own lobsters/turtles and prepare them in a fishery.
Nope, not true. Cooking doesn't leave shells, but fishery prepared turtles and such from the traders still give shells. However, I know there's some confusion between cave lobster and cave lobster meat with the traders, so those may not work.
OS X 10.4 or 10.5, I believe.
Eh? I agree with greycat. I haven't seen what you're describing in version 31.x.
Toady, when will you let people make their own TYPES of settlements for the civs to use?Instead of posting an obnoxious comment in a thread that isn't relevant, why don't explain exactly what you mean by 'types of settlement' and even post your ideas as a thread in the suggestions sub forum in a way that is helpful and useful. Saying 'WHY HAVEN'T YOU DONE X??11!!' usually pisses of people when they've worked hard over something.
Toady, when will you let people make their own TYPES of settlements for the civs to use?Instead of posting an obnoxious comment in a thread that isn't relevant, why don't explain exactly what you mean by 'types of settlement' and even post your ideas as a thread in the suggestions sub forum in a way that is helpful and useful. Saying 'WHY HAVEN'T YOU DONE X??11!!' usually pisses of people when they've worked hard over something.
Toady, when will you let people make their own TYPES of settlements for the civs to use?Instead of posting an obnoxious comment in a thread that isn't relevant, why don't explain exactly what you mean by 'types of settlement' and even post your ideas as a thread in the suggestions sub forum in a way that is helpful and useful. Saying 'WHY HAVEN'T YOU DONE X??11!!' usually pisses of people when they've worked hard over something.
I think this might have been a genuine question (if somewhat obscure), not a complaint. You might be reading the wrong intention into it.
The material-based random critters should be killable now
Quote from: Toady OneThe material-based random critters should be killable now
How so? In the same manner as the undead, or via some tweaking of the game? Would be interesting to know how.
OpenAL and libncursesw are dynamically loaded in .09, so you will still be able to play without them; it's just that sound or text mode (respectively) will fail to work.
Quote from: Toady OneThe material-based random critters should be killable now
How so? In the same manner as the undead, or via some tweaking of the game? Would be interesting to know how.
Yeah, I'm curious too.
I somehow get the feeling it'll just be a sort of kludge like with the undead, since solving it via combat tweaking would result in quite a few other things as well (the dev note was kind of terse about it, only mentioning those particular creatures, and only random ones at that), and also since it seems to have been done rather quickly. But who knows.
Not sure if this is where questions about devlog updates are supposed to go, but it seems a viable place.
I somehow get the feeling it'll just be a sort of kludge like with the undead, since solving it via combat tweaking would result in quite a few other things as well (the dev note was kind of terse about it, only mentioning those particular creatures, and only random ones at that), and also since it seems to have been done rather quickly. But who knows.
That's my feeling too -- the "headless material-based creatures" (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=33#c9208) fix may have been as simple as guaranteeing that all random creatures have a crucial body part that isn't part of the body root, and can therefore be amputated. In practical terms, that just means sticking a head on creatures that didn't have one.
I still need to mess with cumulative wounds being able to break things, which may be today. I'm not convinced that is a good way to a lot of the time though. If you are only scratching a bronze colossus, those are scratches on a giant hunk of metal and there wouldn't be an appreciable tree chopping or cracking/structural instability effect there. I should probably just fill it with something and make sure it can be punctured at this point, until there are more ways to kill things that can't be killed by a regular squad.
I still need to mess with cumulative wounds being able to break things, which may be today. I'm not convinced that is a good way to a lot of the time though. If you are only scratching a bronze colossus, those are scratches on a giant hunk of metal and there wouldn't be an appreciable tree chopping or cracking/structural instability effect there. I should probably just fill it with something and make sure it can be punctured at this point, until there are more ways to kill things that can't be killed by a regular squad.
A couple problems with not implementing this would be that it affects things aside from just those types of creatures (one of many examples: in DF you can punch a dude's arm all day and never really get beyond light bruising even though you should be tenderizing the hell out of him eventually, which actually does cause problems for unarmed combat), plus it applies even if you're actually fracturing/shattering parts of the creature instead of scratching/denting it (obviously scratching a bronze colossus repeatedly shouldn't add up to much, but constantly "shattering" the head probably should). Also, there's the fact that damaging tissue layers should, in some cases, make it easier to damage ones underneath.
The other common workaround for the Bronze Colossus is to give it some sort of Soul Shard or something that acts as a brain. When that dies, it's reduced to just a statue.I suppose a Shadow-of-the-Colossus dealy where they have a weak point or magic runes on them or whatever that make them die if they're damaged would be one option, but that'd require stuff like called shots (or even the ability to climb up on a monster and run around, or whatever epic madness you can imagine.)
Adamantine battle axes were causing around 3% fractures to the BC upper bodies (a 25% quality fracture through 1/9th of the available area), so the cumulative system has bumped them up into contention. It took three highly skilled naked dwarves with adamantine battle axes sent in one at a time to finish one colossus off. "Shatter" now says "chip" when it means that. I should try steel now to see how they do. The colossus itself still needs to be hacked in half or have its head chopped off (because it has a head/lower body, the new central part function loss doesn't trigger blob-like death), so it's still like a giant bronze tree that needs to be chopped down, but it's possible to do with stronger edged weapons now.
Lovely, just lovely.
One useful heuristic for killing non-living units would be to look at their abilities. If they can't move, and they can't attack, they might as well be dead and can be treated as such; that could happen through simple extreme damage all over, without needing to actually pull it apart.
Weapon degradation will definitely change all of this colossus fighting, at least with non-adamantine weapons. You might have to constantly run for spare steel axes and make a seasonal ritual of it until the colossus is killed.
Probably not. They're supposed to be magic in a sense, and incorruptibility is certainly an obvious choice for that.
Please tell me that artifact weapons won't degrade, at least >_<
(
That's the thing, the only really bad thing about unkillable creatures, is that your dwarves continue to be afraid of them. They just need to be recognized as harmless really. At that point you can just integrate them into the fort and put them into a corner somewhere.I know I'm going dangerously into "suggestion" territory now, but another thing that strikes me as odd/annoying is how civilians in general can't determine whether they're really in danger.
Please tell me that artifact weapons won't degrade, at least >_<
(
They should under SOME circumstances, e.g. getting stomped by a Dark Lord.
Please tell me that artifact weapons won't degrade, at least >_<
(
They should under SOME circumstances, e.g. getting stomped by a Dark Lord.
Please tell me that artifact weapons won't degrade, at least >_<
(
They should under SOME circumstances, e.g. getting stomped by a Dark Lord.
Degradation should depend on the strength of the thing it's hitting. An exceptional steel axe cutting through basic copper armor like butter shouldn't degrade at the same speed than if it was trying to cut masterful bronze.
I haven't handled cumulative bruising/denting yet. It'll probably have to operate at that level, with the bruise number, but you'd really want organs to burst and so on. The complicated reality of actual wet tissues and organ shapes isn't reflected at all. It might have to be a property of a body part that lets it burst like a spleen or collapse like a lung, but cumulative bruising will be enough to cause function loss and death, anyway. That part should be easier.
If there's degradation coming in the future, there needs to be a sharpener's workshop to fix em up for some time :3Item repairs would also be good because they'd help you keep your supplies at a constant level -- one problem I can potentially see is players constantly having to manually check their weapons and make sure that they have the correct amounts, replacing stuff that has worn out.
Please tell me that artifact weapons won't degrade, at least >_<
(
If there's degradation coming in the future, there needs to be a sharpener's workshop to fix em up for some time :3Item repairs would also be good because they'd help you keep your supplies at a constant level -- one problem I can potentially see is players constantly having to manually check their weapons and make sure that they have the correct amounts, replacing stuff that has worn out.
Of course, mandates are, in theory, meant to handle this kind of thing, if the relevant nobles can be taught to be smart about them...
Weapon degradation will definitely change all of this colossus fighting, at least with non-adamantine weapons.
I'm more worried about what would happen to dwarves who break their sword/axe/spear during a fight? Will they wrestle the enemy? (That would be terrible)
There are tissue holes that develop that allow passing to the tissues underneath, but it's not really satisfying since the attacking weapon has to go in without touching the edges like that Operation game. If it touches the edges, it has to pass through the entire tissue as usual.
There are tissue holes that develop that allow passing to the tissues underneath, but it's not really satisfying since the attacking weapon has to go in without touching the edges like that Operation game. If it touches the edges, it has to pass through the entire tissue as usual.
Ammo assignment doesn't work like that. The Arsenal Dwarf goes "alright, these 600 steel bolts go to Squad A, those 500 bronze bolts go to Squad B" and such. Then the dwarves use those bolts - if they ran out and they knew to reload, they can do so without waiting for the Arsenal Dwarf's permission as he's already signed the paperwork for the reserve bolts. Note I'm completely skipping all mention of bugs right now.I'm more worried about what would happen to dwarves who break their sword/axe/spear during a fight? Will they wrestle the enemy? (That would be terrible)
Likewise... once we can use Marksdwarves again, what will happen to Marksdwarves who run out of ammo mid-fight? Ideally I'd like them to pick up the nearest bolts they can find, which, if I had my way, would be in a stockpile right there beside their assigned place on the fortified tower/parapets. I'm worried that they'd either sit there until the Arsenal Dwarf wakes up and finishes drinking, or they'd charge the enemy with their crossbow and start bashing. And even if the A.D. is awake and active, he might assign them a pile of bolts that's halfway across the map, instead of the ones right next to them.
Ammo assignment doesn't work like that. The Arsenal Dwarf goes "alright, these 600 steel bolts go to Squad A, those 500 bronze bolts go to Squad B" and such. Then the dwarves use those bolts - if they ran out and they knew to reload, they can do so without waiting for the Arsenal Dwarf's permission as he's already signed the paperwork for the reserve bolts. Note I'm completely skipping all mention of bugs right now.
QuoteDwarf Fortress: Now with 30% more brain surgery.Can I please sig that?
Ammo assignment doesn't work like that. The Arsenal Dwarf goes "alright, these 600 steel bolts go to Squad A, those 500 bronze bolts go to Squad B" and such. Then the dwarves use those bolts - if they ran out and they knew to reload, they can do so without waiting for the Arsenal Dwarf's permission as he's already signed the paperwork for the reserve bolts. Note I'm completely skipping all mention of bugs right now.
OK, fair enough. Then the question becomes, how do I manage to get the right bolts into the right ammo stockpiles....
Dwarf Fortress: Now with 30% more brain surgery.
In case anyone's wondering, I don't think that this:Weapon degradation will definitely change all of this colossus fighting, at least with non-adamantine weapons.
was meant to imply that weapon/armor degradation is actually being implemented yet.
I have two metal ore only stockpiles right by my smelters. Both have allow non-plant/animal on. They are the only stone stockpiles I have as I have disabled all the others to try and get it to work. I am currently in a siege, so my civilians are relegated to the "Inside" burrow, which includes everything inside my fortress including both the mining area and the stockpiles.
No one is loading the stockpiles despite me having 40 idlers. The smelter dwarves have to run downstairs to the mine every time I want them to make some iron bars. Bug? Am I misunderstanding Burrows?
If there's degradation coming in the future, there needs to be a sharpener's workshop to fix em up for some time :3
Please tell me that artifact weapons won't degrade, at least >_<
(
I'm more worried about what would happen to dwarves who break their sword/axe/spear during a fight? Will they wrestle the enemy? (That would be terrible) Will they try to run to an armory to get a new weapon? If yes, how will that work with all the arsenal dwarf bureaucracy when they can't just pick up a weapon on a whim?
An interesting solution would be to have each dwarf carry two weapons by default (determined by default uniforms... say one weapon for the "light" leather uniform, two weapons for the "heavy" metal uniform). Better yet, have backup weapons dependent on the main weapon. Macedwarfs probably don't need backups. Swordsdwarves and speardwarves, on the other hand, should carry a backup warhammer or something that doesn't break.
EDIT: This leads to the issue of being able to tell your dwarves to use certain weapons for this fight only. "It's a colossus, throw away your spears, pick up hammers"... without needing to wait for the arsenal dwarf and preferably without much micromanagement. Because without being able to specify weapons now, the realistic material system along with weapon damage would make fighting mineral beats too broken.
Toady did you mean only degeneration of the edges or actual damage to weapons? Ala bended/shattererd blades, brocken staffs and splintered arrows?
Also a damaged weapon must not be useless, you can trash a cue over the had of someone and then stab the same person with a now (most likely) sharp end. The "Cut of saurons finger"-move comes also to mind or using a broken jo / bo like an eskrima Staff.
Toady did you mean only degeneration of the edges or actual damage to weapons? Ala bended/shattererd blades, brocken staffs and splintered arrows?
Also a damaged weapon must not be useless, you can trash a cue over the had of someone and then stab the same person with a now (most likely) sharp end. The "Cut of saurons finger"-move comes also to mind or using a broken jo / bo like an eskrima Staff.
Degradation should depend on the strength of the thing it's hitting. An exceptional steel axe cutting through basic copper armor like butter shouldn't degrade at the same speed than if it was trying to cut masterful bronze.
Degradation should also be a function of the skill of the dwarf using the weapon. It would be kind of backwards having a Legendary Axedwarf breaking his axe on any target. If he's legendary, he should be able to cleanly strike just about anything. Also, it would be rather odd having said Axedwarf not periodically sharpening the nicks out of his axe. If that axedwarf is attached to the weapon, then he should really, really maintain it.
A Legendary Axedwarf with an artifact axe should never break or let that axe go dull.
Also, how do you hack a bronze golem carefully in order not to break your axe?
If there's degradation coming in the future, there needs to be a sharpener's workshop to fix em up for some time :3Item repairs would also be good because they'd help you keep your supplies at a constant level -- one problem I can potentially see is players constantly having to manually check their weapons and make sure that they have the correct amounts, replacing stuff that has worn out.
Of course, mandates are, in theory, meant to handle this kind of thing, if the relevant nobles can be taught to be smart about them...
Maybe make it like the tanner's shop, automatically let the fixer dwarf take the weapon from the soldier, go fix it and then bring it back to the dude. This would happen as soon as an item reaches a certain status of degradation, and the soldier is not active (to prevent mid-battle weapon robbery which would be hilarious but deadly)
Also, I can see a highly-skilled repairdwarf fixing up a lower-quality weapon while they're repairing, and perhaps increasing its quality level.I don't.
Also, I can see a highly-skilled repairdwarf fixing up a lower-quality weapon while they're repairing, and perhaps increasing its quality level.I don't.
Perhaps for the very worst weapons, but generally speaking the quality of a weapon is limited by its forging. A blade can certainly be ruined by lack of maintenance, but if it's badly made in the first made - if the iron crystals inside the blade are badly aligned, or there are pockets of carbon or silicon, whatever - no amount of maintenance is going to fix that; you'd need to reforge it.
Also, I can see a highly-skilled repairdwarf fixing up a lower-quality weapon while they're repairing, and perhaps increasing its quality level.I don't.
Perhaps for the very worst weapons, but generally speaking the quality of a weapon is limited by its forging. A blade can certainly be ruined by lack of maintenance, but if it's badly made in the first made - if the iron crystals inside the blade are badly aligned, or there are pockets of carbon or silicon, whatever - no amount of maintenance is going to fix that; you'd need to reforge it.
Also, how do you hack a bronze golem carefully in order not to break your axe?
Like someone else pointed out, if it's moving, then there's a weak spot. It either becomes softer at the joints to move magically OR it's got hinge-like joints. If it's cast, it has to have seams. There's always a sweet spot!Like human's knee, joint could have external shielding. Even few cm of solid bronze would stop any melee weapon, and even most of firearms.
Based on that, the opposite is also true - a masterwork blade is highly likely to degrade when repaired by reforge. So you'd have a mixed blessing and it'd all require fuel anyway. Plus when fractions of bars are used in the game just like fractions of cloths in hospitals, you could demand a portion of a bar is also required for reforging to cover chipped edge repair.Also, I can see a highly-skilled repairdwarf fixing up a lower-quality weapon while they're repairing, and perhaps increasing its quality level.I don't.
Perhaps for the very worst weapons, but generally speaking the quality of a weapon is limited by its forging. A blade can certainly be ruined by lack of maintenance, but if it's badly made in the first made - if the iron crystals inside the blade are badly aligned, or there are pockets of carbon or silicon, whatever - no amount of maintenance is going to fix that; you'd need to reforge it.
True but a significant repair job may well require at least reheating the blade to smooth out really bad dings and bends. Hardened steel is very difficult to mold without heating and even a good reheat can restructure the crystalline structure if it wasn't very good the first time around.
Also, weapon quality, I'd imagine, is largely based on the the quality of the edge since that is the main thing that quality modifies affect (weapon damage and as a result the value) so I could see the repair dwarf grinding out a better edge than the original blade.
Also, how do you hack a bronze golem carefully in order not to break your axe?I suspect that if you swung the axe in a steady and direct strike, more of the force would be expended in parting the bronze and the force that went into bouncing the blade would be directed along the length rather than being concentrated at the tip. Of course, if the material you are trying to cut is harder than the material your are cutting with, blade start to lose some of their appeal...
Good steel is, but modern steel has a consistent goodness that's unknown through most of history.Well, they ARE dwarves. You just hammer that shit until it does what you want.
The ability to consistently produce good steel, lacking physics and chemistry, is one of the dwarves' nearly magical abilities.
I'd say dwarves have an understanding of physics and chemistry, although it may not be expressed in the terms modern-day humans would use.
Why not?
Copper and Bronze Age societies had an understanding of physics and chemistry. And they put their knowledge into practice making edged and projectile weapons, complex architecture etc. Just because it is not founded on precise math, doesn't mean it won't work for simple applications.
As for the consistency of alloys, item quality takes care of that, doesn't it? a skilled blacksmith knows the exact proportions of ingredients to make a fine *sword* that a rookie might only guess at making swords and -swords- his first couple of years in the trade.
at this point I would normally refer to the old simple gameplay = fun gameplay rule. BUT this game seems to defy what has been generally agreed upon by other developers.
What would you base your ore quality system on? arbitrary values set to each tile? miner experience?
The same goes for metal bar quality. Obviously purity would be the main factor here, but how to define it? Would it be inconsistent enough to assign quality values? Copper age societies were found able to produce 99,7% pure copper with little to no tools and basic understanding of the smelting process.
Its an easy patch to just say dwarves have fairly advanced metallurgical knowledge and an innate ability to get the best out of the ore. Is the no fish bug still in? i get a good supply of turtles and fishes then nothing for as long as my forts have lasted.
Desalination could be borked in this version, dunno.
Desalination could be borked in this version, dunno.
Desalinization is/was a bug, so people shouldn't be too surprised if it's been fixed.
Desalination could be borked in this version, dunno.
Desalinization is/was a bug, so people shouldn't be too surprised if it's been fixed.
Desalination could be borked in this version, dunno.
Desalinization is/was a bug, so people shouldn't be too surprised if it's been fixed.
He was asking about running DF on a PowerPC architecture platform. PowerPC is completely incompatible with x86/i386/amd64/x86_64 hardware -- it's a totally separate architecture and would need to have DF recompiled for it. I don't foresee that as likely.
The only way you could run DF on a PPC machine would be through an emulator of some kind.
Would WINE be an appropriate emulator though that is what I am thinking would be his best bet?
Actually with ranged attacks it does make sense that copper bolts will NEVER penetrate steel armor. It also makes sense that if armor coverage is not 100% the uncovered areas will get hit from time to time.A copper bolt travelling at ninety percent of the speed of light carries a high probability of causing problems for an individual completely covered by heavy steel armour. A solid copper bolt fired from a particularly heavy crossbow would probably get through a weak point in standard steel armour, although it would expect to lose much of its force in doing so. Perhaps there is room for two tyes of crossbow, one which fires more quickly, and another with more power.
Toady: Have you messed with the combat randomness at all or is it still "weaker material has zero chance of beating stronger material" like in the current version? I was wondering as you said "and I'm happier with the results now after a lot of changes." in the newest devlog, so maybe more randomness was one of the changes? A man can dream.
Toady: Have you messed with the combat randomness at all or is it still "weaker material has zero chance of beating stronger material" like in the current version? I was wondering as you said "and I'm happier with the results now after a lot of changes." in the newest devlog, so maybe more randomness was one of the changes? A man can dream.
There has been a tendency for material differences to not be quite as all-deciding, but it's still a little off. The armor is like a fully covering metal skin now, and that's part of the problem, but there are still other things to do with contact area and whatever else -- right now sword swings have to use contact area for the sweep of the swing as well as the actual contact area of the strike, when those are very different things, and that exacerbates material issues. I'm going to change that. Bolts have small contact areas now, and that helps them punch through breast plates when they get a nice square shot. I just want to get a release up within a few days, and then I'll probably be back doing some of this, though I've got to spread out to other issues as well.
Perhaps material properties could have a random adjustment modulated by quality, to represent construction flaws? So a poorly made suit of bronze armor might have a lot of weak spots, while one that is well made would generally be tough all over.
There were issues at small sizes that might help with darts and which have definitely been handled for bolts. Contact area always influenced the chance of penetration, but there was a division at one point that made small contact areas round up, so any small numbers were just getting washed out. I'd still need to test darts.
Re: fishing, my experience is that after a few years the population gives out and never comes back. 20 year fort on a brook here. Stockpile your refuse inside D:
There were issues at small sizes that might help with darts and which have definitely been handled for bolts. Contact area always influenced the chance of penetration, but there was a division at one point that made small contact areas round up, so any small numbers were just getting washed out. I'd still need to test darts.
In case I wasn't clear (I don't know how well I explained it), what I mean about darts/arrows can be summed up via analogy to bullets: Obviously, bullets are pretty tiny so you can't stab someone very deeply with one even if you could get a grip on it, but when you fire them with a gun they can go clear through a person; what I'm unsure of is if the game has any notion of this (of the entire body of a piece of ammunition piercing through to the next layer, such that it can go deeper than the ammunition itself is long).
Making penetration depth able to go beyond the depth specified in the item raws will be for projectiles flying deep within large soft targets.
There's also the little balance problem of sure-kill arteries. For example, in fortress mode, a soldier can get a cut in his cheek which results in a cut artery, and he bleeds to death in seconds before any chance of a dwarf rescuing him. Arteries should cause heavy bleeding, but they should bleed to death slower so there's a chance of survival.
There's also the little balance problem of sure-kill arteries. For example, in fortress mode, a soldier can get a cut in his cheek which results in a cut artery, and he bleeds to death in seconds before any chance of a dwarf rescuing him. Arteries should cause heavy bleeding, but they should bleed to death slower so there's a chance of survival.
That was almost certainly due to this bug, (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=723) which was fixed a few hours ago.
My test for that was to set up two lines of 11 crossbowmen each and just wait for a good shot, but the heart wound ended up being a guy getting shot in the arm, dropping his crossbow, running over to the opposing line, and jabbing his stack of bolts into somebody's chest.
A copper bolt travelling at ninety percent of the speed of light carries a high probability of causing problems for an individual completely covered by heavy steel armour.Well, "hitting with strength of multiton thermonuclear explosion" certainly counts as "causing problems", but it sounds so much like... understatement... ;)
The arsenal dwarf was obliterated to let equipment move around more easily. The position might be back later, but not without being more useful and interesting.
Arsenal dwarf going away in 0.31.09: (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/index.html#2010-07-07)Quote from: Today OneThe arsenal dwarf was obliterated to let equipment move around more easily. The position might be back later, but not without being more useful and interesting.
Which brings to question: will dwarves store their training weapons in their squad-assigned container (weapon rack defining the barracks) and only pull them out for official sparring? Seems silly to ever equip training weapons just for individual weapon drills or demonstrations, where no risk of injury exists.
Are the undead officially fixed? I can kill them pretty easy with a hammer in adventurer mode, but haven't heard any threads about "OMG unkillable creatures bug fixed" so... :P
Anyway, I phrased my question that way because sieges are not the main concern with rapid switching of equipment - unexpected cavern wildlife intrusions and ambushes give you far less time to react so I expect soldiers should carry live weapons by default and only use practice weapons at the exact time they need them: sparring only.
Anyway, I phrased my question that way because sieges are not the main concern with rapid switching of equipment - unexpected cavern wildlife intrusions and ambushes give you far less time to react so I expect soldiers should carry live weapons by default and only use practice weapons at the exact time they need them: sparring only.
Somehow i agree, but then i like to train my futur soldiers on uncaged goblins, and i usually first let them wrestle on them, then i give them wooden weapons, then when they have real skill i stop the training with caged goblin, i give them a real weapon and send them into siege. You can easely control the strengh of the oponent with goblins, first you can take off the equipement you only want, and then they also have skill, some are recruit, other are master, so its a very effective way to train your soldiers without much risk, lot better than sparring.
Somehow you should be able to say which is the primary/secondary/sparring weapon like it was, kind of, in 40 (you could choose how many weapon you'll equip), and you should be able to switch those. If you put a switch like "training weapon = sparring only" it will screw this all.
There were issues at small sizes that might help with darts and which have definitely been handled for bolts. Contact area always influenced the chance of penetration, but there was a division at one point that made small contact areas round up, so any small numbers were just getting washed out. I'd still need to test darts.
In case I wasn't clear (I don't know how well I explained it), what I mean about darts/arrows can be summed up via analogy to bullets: Obviously, bullets are pretty tiny so you can't stab someone very deeply with one even if you could get a grip on it, but when you fire them with a gun they can go clear through a person; what I'm unsure of is if the game has any notion of this (of the entire body of a piece of ammunition piercing through to the next layer, such that it can go deeper than the ammunition itself is long).
Ah, no, I see you mentioned that now as a separate issue from the darts, and yeah, we haven't done anything with it. Between darts, bolts and arrows against their regular targets, it isn't nearly as important, but there are some cases (like shooting a dragon with an adamantine bolt) where it would need to be addressed to get the ideal behavior. When I do the sweep area vs contact area thing for swings, it'll probably involve very similar changes, so I'll try to keep it in mind.
Either way... YAY Marksdwarfs!!! I am totally ready to set down on goblin turf and start swiss-cheesing them gobs.
Either way... YAY Marksdwarfs!!! I am totally ready to set down on goblin turf and start swiss-cheesing them gobs.
Hm... goblin cheese.
-is off to mod goblins as milkable-
You could solve both the need to switch to training weapons and the desire for dwarves to occasionally engage in real combat using training weapons. Something like being able to assign any weapon to a dwarf as a "Weapon", and any other weapon as a "Sparring Weapon". The former is kept on the dwarf, the latter is kept on a weapon rack in an assigned barracks.And because it is kept in the training room, multiple dwarves could use the same training weapon, although they might become sad and go on a killing spree because someone else was using their weapon when they wanted it...
Marksdwarves have always worked in the arena. It's fortress mode where we grieve and Toady won't release .09 until he's fixed it or made enough changes to warrant extensive playtesting by us. Training and equipping do work even in .08 provided you stick to certain restrictions.I've had the save-crash bug at least 6 times already, and two crashes that cost me a total of a year, at least.
Sneak preview: http://brage.info/~svein/console.pngI see new stuff and I see matrixy stuff. Not sure whether to take you seriously or not..
It's not useful for much yet, but it does give you quick access to the gamelog/errorlog, at least. More later.
Sneak preview: http://brage.info/~svein/console.pngI see new stuff and I see matrixy stuff. Not sure whether to take you seriously or not..
It's not useful for much yet, but it does give you quick access to the gamelog/errorlog, at least. More later.
Sneak preview: http://brage.info/~svein/console.pngYou really shouldn't leave your fisherdwarves so close to those crocodiles...
It's not useful for much yet, but it does give you quick access to the gamelog/errorlog, at least. More later.
Sneak preview: http://brage.info/~svein/console.png
It's not useful for much yet, but it does give you quick access to the gamelog/errorlog, at least. More later.
Baughn has told me that much of the purpose of this scripting (aside from debug purposes) is to allow, say, better fortress automation, or otherwise for use as a gameplay tool.
I don't think I stressed this enough, so -
You're not supposed to use the console in gameplay. The console is for modders
, and there will be no interfaces added to it that don't have an equivalent non-console interface already.
Well. Admittedly it'd be possible to loop there, but that just makes it a nicer macro interface.
And where exactly would those gaps be? Would the average player care? We're throwing around conjectures based on what? One screenshot showing nothing?I don't think I stressed this enough, so -
You're not supposed to use the console in gameplay. The console is for modders
Its intent is honestly completely irrelevant. It doesn't matter what people are "supposed" to do with it. What matters is what they can do with it, and consequently what they will do with it.Quote, and there will be no interfaces added to it that don't have an equivalent non-console interface already.
Well. Admittedly it'd be possible to loop there, but that just makes it a nicer macro interface.
I honestly don't believe for a second that anything you could do via arbitrary Scheme scripting would have an equivalent method in the game's user interface. Even if most of the common cases are covered, there would still likely be huge gaps there.
Unsynchronised arguments are fine if you just want to pass away time but you seem to want some relevant answers.
And where exactly would those gaps be? Would the average player care? We're throwing around conjectures based on what? One screenshot showing nothing?
If you want this resolved, ask to see an exact Statement of Scope covering all the functionalities the console will do and more importantly, what it explicitly won't do.
From what he was telling me, it would very easily serve as the backbone for, say, standing production orders (although these themselves would likely have a more intuitive UI representation), allow for debugging purposes, and, well, any number of other things. So yeah, it does have the sort of capability I'm speaking of.
The gaps would be... well, obvious. It would let you do things that you can't do using the game interface proper, which is pretty clear to me. After all, if it can handle standing orders for workshops, and is given fairly transparent access to such internal data, then there are clear implications regarding its utility for fortress automation in general.
[07/07/10 13:49:47][07/07/10 13:49:12] <G-Flex> production orders should be simple enough that any idiot can take near full advantage of them
[07/07/10 13:49:19] <smeding> yeah
[07/07/10 13:49:38] <veryinky> :|
[07/07/10 13:49:45] <G-Flex> I mean, to a reasonable degree
[07/07/10 13:49:47] <Baughn> More conditions will likely be added, later.
[07/07/10 13:49:50] <smeding> i just thought of implementing a silly wysiwyg kind of thing. instead of typing it, you add bits from a menu\
[07/07/10 13:49:56] <Baughn> So long as it's just production orders, you're probably right, but..
[07/07/10 13:50:01] <G-Flex> obviously you need to have at least 1/5 of a logic-brain to understand "make more booze if you have none but still have a bunch of plants"
[07/07/10 13:50:16] <G-Flex> smeding: yeah
[07/07/10 13:50:35] <Baughn> What about if you want to say "When there is an invasion, close these doors and pull these levers, set them back afterwards, activate these borrows, etc. etc."
[07/07/10 13:50:38] <BW> well, just the ability to have access to counts of basic items, and queue jobs based on simple numerical comparison would be awesome.
[07/07/10 13:50:49] <G-Flex> Baughn: that sounds like a job for alert states :P
[07/07/10 13:50:55] <Baughn> Obviously that wouldn't be /required/ to play the game, but it'd be awesome to have the capability
[07/07/10 13:51:10] <Kidiri> !
[07/07/10 13:51:12] <G-Flex> yes, but it should be simple enough to set up that anybody who understands what you just said should be able to set it up
[07/07/10 13:51:30] <Baughn> Sometimes.
[07/07/10 13:51:33] * ilikepie (~weechat@NewNet-97B37D71.cablep.bezeqint.net) has joined #bay12games
[07/07/10 13:51:46] <Baughn> The idea of having a programming language underneath is as a fallback; to catch the cases Toady /didn't/ think of.
[07/07/10 13:51:52] <Baughn> Yes, I know that's heresy. :P
That's correct as far as I know, but Baughn was taking a fairly authoritative tone with his "sneak preview", so I'm not sure anymore.Isn't this something that happens pretty often?
Look, all I was doing in that email was pointing out ways this *could* be used. It certainly wasn't meant to be a statement of intent.
I wasn't trying to engage in speculation; I was pretty much going by what you had said yourself.However, Baughn WAS speculating, so you were engaging in it.
We need to clone toady so he can work in all hours of the day
I have mixed feelings on the idea of scripting in DF. Part of the attraction of the game for me is the continuous interaction model, where the player has to pay attention and constantly issue orders. For me the challenge is how long can I keep it going with a low idlers number, processing raw materials into finished goods efficiently, and not running out of booze.Challenge of micromanagement is hard to be considered fun.
I don't feel like the guys who make megaprojects are somehow taking away from my game, I don't see why I'd think that some guy with a great automation script is going to do that, either.
They use Python which makes reasonably good sense to anyone who is familiar with at least one procedural language. Scheme might be a little too dense for casual use by people who have only seen procedural before -- though if a functional approach is necessary then by all means use whatever language makes sense.
Those two things aren't comparable at all. Megaprojects are, for the most part, superfluous vanity projects that serve limited function (and when they do serve a function, it's usually something of very little practical usage, or something that could be easily solved via a simpler method). This is quite different from something like fortress automation, which is extremely useful and convenient for pretty much anyone, to the point where such features are extremely often requested.
Any chance of 0.31.09 being released today?I´d rather say 32.01
Any chance of 0.31.09 being released today?
Any chance of 0.31.09 being released today?
If a player has no programming skill whatsoever, standing orders are simple enough to understand that they can just copy/paste from a cookbook or from forum posts if the interface needs syntax care - simple IF ELSE statements are understood even by non-programmers as it's part of everyday logic in life.
Seems that Toady's (and Baughn's) main thoughts with scripting is towards content generation. A special ability or magic artifact that does X, where X can be whatever the modder wants via scripting. Or a random creature Y, where the algorithm that chooses how to build Y is guided by the modder via scripting. These uses of scripting won't be of interest to casual players who just want to play the fort - they want to use what the modders cook up, but they're not interested in doing any modding themselves and hence, doing any content generation scripting themselves.
Any chance of 0.31.09 being released today?
My guess is that if an update was going to be made today, it would have happened already.
Any chance of 0.31.09 being released today?
My guess is that if an update was going to be made today, it would have happened already.
Well Toady is online atm, so hopefully he's uploading it.
I had finished my windows compiles on schedule, then I went to the forum, and it was down... and it turns out it was very down, and the message database was corrupt. So I was figuring that out and putting the repairs into motion until 11 or 12 or whenever it was. Hopefully the forum is fine now. Then I slept for an hour and am now back to the release checklist and am in the middle of the Linux compile. There was something to do with dynamic linking of sound libraries this time around that I forgot to get back in touch with Baughn on that hasn't had any problems yet but which he said he might want to take a look at. Other than that, things should proceed smoothly which would mean a release within a couple hours. Then we can have a second release due to whatever screwup has been introduced by my release process being interrupted...
Then we can have a second release due to whatever screwup has been introduced by my release process being interrupted...That has happened to me before. Good luck and hope nobody bumps you at just the wrong time.
I had finished my windows compiles on schedule, then I went to the forum, and it was down... and it turns out it was very down, and the message database was corrupt. So I was figuring that out and putting the repairs into motion until 11 or 12 or whenever it was. Hopefully the forum is fine now. Then I slept for an hour and am now back to the release checklist and am in the middle of the Linux compile. There was something to do with dynamic linking of sound libraries this time around that I forgot to get back in touch with Baughn on that hasn't had any problems yet but which he said he might want to take a look at. Other than that, things should proceed smoothly which would mean a release within a couple hours. Then we can have a second release due to whatever screwup has been introduced by my release process being interrupted...
I had finished my windows compiles on schedule, then I went to the forum, and it was down... and it turns out it was very down, and the message database was corrupt. So I was figuring that out and putting the repairs into motion until 11 or 12 or whenever it was. Hopefully the forum is fine now. Then I slept for an hour and am now back to the release checklist and am in the middle of the Linux compile. There was something to do with dynamic linking of sound libraries this time around that I forgot to get back in touch with Baughn on that hasn't had any problems yet but which he said he might want to take a look at. Other than that, things should proceed smoothly which would mean a release within a couple hours. Then we can have a second release due to whatever screwup has been introduced by my release process being interrupted...
Then you are saying that the current version of the game is unsuitable for the average user, due to worldgen params, machinery, the military, underground farming, moods, even the ASCII graphics and pretty much every other regular question that comes our way on the Gameplay subforum. A lot of users can play without looking anything up, simply by figuring things out on their own. But of course, that's not an average user.If a player has no programming skill whatsoever, standing orders are simple enough to understand that they can just copy/paste from a cookbook or from forum posts if the interface needs syntax care - simple IF ELSE statements are understood even by non-programmers as it's part of everyday logic in life.
This is already far too complex for the average user. A user should not have to look up things in a "cookbook" or on the forum in order to play the game, even for late-game/convenience-oriented things. What you're proposing is infeasible because of this case if for no other reason. If you implement a feature in a game that requires people to look at a script-programming cookbook in order to use it effectively, then you have failed.
Then you are saying that the current version of the game is unsuitable for the average user, due to worldgen params, machinery, the military, underground farming, moods, even the ASCII graphics and pretty much every other regular question that comes our way on the Gameplay subforum. A lot of users can play without looking anything up, simply by figuring things out on their own. But of course, that's not an average user.
As far as in-game conditional orders are concerned, I think a lot could be done simply with a guided user interface. After all, one rule that needs to be followed here is that, ideally, a feature should be intuitive enough that a user can achieve what he wants with it simply by understanding what he wants. In this case, if a user wants X to happen under Y conditions, as long as condition Z isn't true, then he should be able to do that without the interface getting in the way too much.
If a player has no programming skill whatsoever, standing orders are simple enough to understand that they can just copy/paste from a cookbook or from forum posts if the interface needs syntax care - simple IF ELSE statements are understood even by non-programmers as it's part of everyday logic in life. I have no comment at present about using scripting for improved machinery.I'm reminded of a time when I read a chatroom log where 2 sides went at each other for 4 hours. After I read it all, I told them: "you do realise you two were vehemently agreeing with each other for 4 hours?"
Yes, it does, because having fortress automation scripts running won't magically make the game simulate the fortress after you abandon it.Actually, why not? Having own AI on per-fortress basis would make world advancement far more hilarious and entertaining.
Yes, it does, because having fortress automation scripts running won't magically make the game simulate the fortress after you abandon it.Actually, why not? Having own AI on per-fortress basis would make world advancement far more hilarious and entertaining.
Hell, your computer wouldn't even be able to run that; it's pretty absurd to think the game could even handle multiple fortress modes going on at once (which is basically what you're talking about), and even if Toady were to do something like that, he'd have to do a hell of a lot more than let you run automated control scripts in-game.In terms of performance, it should not matter much - Toady needs to solve past-worldgen world advancement anyway and that requires some kind of fast-but-detailed-enough abstraction of most of concepts. Surely there is no need to simulate each damn dorf in each fort. But neither do we talk about this level of scripting.
a script-language would be perfect for stuff like civ-behavior NPC-settlement layouts etc.