Print Page - Orcs: More things to kill

Dwarf Fortress => DF Modding => Mod Releases => Topic started by: Rysith on November 05, 2008, 01:42:38 am

Title: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
Post by: Rysith on November 05, 2008, 01:42:38 am

Please see this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=26858.msg1538105#msg1538105) for details on DF2010(0.31.10+) orcs.

Just thought that I'd throw this out there as my first bit of attempted modding, since I've benefited from the mods other people have posted here.

I decided that the goblins didn't come often enough, and ran away too quickly. The goblins from the "better goblins" mod seemed more geared towards adventure mode than fortress mode, since they seemed a bit too powerful to be able to take on a siege of. Or, if they weren't, it was a siege vs. a large, mature fortress who's entrance was covered in more traps than there were dwarves inside.
Enter the orcs, a non-speaking race that will show up in large numbers. Larger and tougher than the average dwarf, they are raiders drawn by tales of wealth in dwarven (or human, or elven, or goblin) fortresses, and once they have arrived they show no fear and feel no pain until they have killed and plundered everything. Unless, of course, they get bored and leave for another fortress to loot and pillage. Assuming you can't drive them away, though, you should be prepared to spend at least 6 months out of the year sealed away underground, not an easy task at all.

Also, unlike non-speaking goblins, I've never had an issue with the orcs dying out during world gen. Fast birth rate and large populations seem to help with that.

Version 0.2 changes!
- Orcs are now faster, so they can chase down your woodcutters and fisherdwarves that are caught outside during sieges
- Orcs are now active summer/winter only, so that they don't interfere with dwarven caravans. I've seen them show up as early as my first winter, though with a fast start they might show up the first summer.
- Orc settlements are much larger, which helps them in world gen combat, because...
- Orcs worship a pantheon of (mostly unpleasant) gods, rather than a demon. Demons seem to have some odd things attached to them in world gen, so I wanted to take them out. Plus, they should put decorations of their gods on their equipment, and who doesn't want an iron shield with an image of an Orcish god of war on it?
- Orcs now eat their kills.
- Orcs are now clad only in armor, leather loincloths, and leather cloaks, as befits their savage nature
- Orcs are less choosy about their fortress locations, and so have a tendency to expand more rapidly during world gen.
- Orcs will no longer send crossbowmen, only bowmen. No bolts for you!
- Custom names for orcish soldiers: Crushers, stabbers, slashers, carvers, maulers, lancers, and snipers.

Version 0.3 changes!
- Orcish language!
- To have non-speaking orcs with names in fortress mode, generate the world and then add the [CAN_SPEAK] tag to their entity file after embarking.
- Added [trAPAVOID]
- Added three mount animals: Dire wolves, Giant Wolf Spiders, and Armored War Elephants
- Minor tweaks that should encourage them to expand well in world-gen.

- Updated first post

Overall, they are now a race of savage barbarians that will raid your fortress twice a year, killing anything that they can path to. They don't need demons to lead them, they do just fine on their own. Goblins need demons because goblins are weak.

Installation:
- Download from http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=877
- Place the three files in your raw\objects directory
- Regenerate the world
- (optionally) add [CAN_SPEAK] after starting fortress mode
- Have Fun!

Edit 2/12: Finally remembered to do this:
Thanks to Jarathor, there are now Orc graphics. I haven't tested them, but the image is here (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=26858.msg401049#msg401049) and the instructions are here (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=26858.msg402048#msg402048)

Edit: Foxbyte has repackaged Jarathor's Orc graphics into an easy-to-install file, available at the DFFD (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1544)

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: sdu on November 05, 2008, 02:04:27 am

I just made some orcs too - with the same size/damblock lol. I think i put my litter as 1-6.

I like to see hordes of enemies :)

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Keilden on November 05, 2008, 03:16:27 am

Make [ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_OTHER:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:PERSONAL_MATTER]
acceptable.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Jetman123 on November 05, 2008, 03:18:05 am

Looks like meat's back on the menu, boyz!

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Hamster Man on November 05, 2008, 03:40:42 am

Not to poke fun, but you spelled it "Hoard" in the profile. Did you perhaps mean "Horde"?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on November 05, 2008, 10:50:40 am

Quote from: Hamster Man on November 05, 2008, 03:40:42 am

Not to poke fun, but you spelled it "Hoard" in the profile. Did you perhaps mean "Horde"?

yep, my spelling is horrible, but DF doesn't care anyway.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Warlord255 on November 05, 2008, 12:35:21 pm

You know, this kind of makes me wish there were more workable clothing tags. I.E. [CLOTHING], [CLOTHING_BARBARIC] (leather only, minimum of stuff, mostly loincloths and cloaks), etc... although to be fair, all you'd really need is a [LEATHER_CLOTHING] tag and you could customize it yourself.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Warlord255 on November 05, 2008, 02:21:53 pm

I wonder; can you remove applicable jobs and still have them work as a civ? E.G. removing anything that doesn't pertain to hunting, killing, etc?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Boksi on November 05, 2008, 02:27:49 pm

You ought to be able to do that, yes. I don't see why not at least, since the engine isn't that complicated and it's mostly just flavor right now.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Warlord255 on November 05, 2008, 02:47:01 pm

Quote from: Boksi on November 05, 2008, 02:27:49 pm

You ought to be able to do that, yes. I don't see why not at least, since the engine isn't that complicated and it's mostly just flavor right now.

Alright; I was worried it might affect worldgen somehow.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Boksi on November 05, 2008, 02:55:17 pm

So long as you don't remove leatherworking I don't think it will.

Woodcutting and carpentry might make a mess, but if you don't intend to give them it, don't and see what happens. Theories are confirmed and disproved by experiments.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Warlord255 on November 05, 2008, 03:27:27 pm

I removed all the masonry, glassmaking, lyemaking, etc...left in furnace operating and wood burning for forging, if the game counts that at all. Oh, and added loincloths.

Still trying to get my Oozes to spawn and eat all my food, then I can reset and add both of these in.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Thuellai on November 05, 2008, 03:30:33 pm

Made a quick-and-dirty modbase package for anyone who wants it. With the TC's permission, of course.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on November 05, 2008, 03:50:03 pm

Quote from: Thuellai on November 05, 2008, 03:30:33 pm

Made a quick-and-dirty modbase package for anyone who wants it. With the TC's permission, of course.

Modbase is fine with me, I put it out here for redistribution and modification, didn't I?

About the professions: I took them from the goblins, and didn't mess with them too much (for fear of breaking world-gen in ways i didn't understand), but even with those in they seem more than capable of fielding sizable armies: I've seen sieges of 50 come after a 30-dwarf fort, so it didn't seem to be negatively affecting their intended purpose. I just bumped up their MAX_SITE_POP_NUMBER to cover for any of the useless ones. Removing weaver and clothier to force them into leather might work, though. I'll try messing with their professions after they wipe out my current fortress in a day or two.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Warlord255 on November 05, 2008, 03:57:53 pm

Here's my modded version, if you'd like; minor tweaks, including renaming of their fighters.

Entity:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Creature:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Thuellai on November 05, 2008, 09:11:00 pm

Just got sieged by 'em, and I have to say, not bad! Ran 'em off by building a wall as soon as they showed up and carving in fortifications and then tearing it back down, because I am the sort of person who has three or four masons idling at any given time. Then I set up a single crossbowdwarf and fed him bolts. Before that, though, they took out 7 dwarves (two of which were my starting 7 and Legendary Miners). Nice little swarm, and only a little bit of iron to "mine" off them so they're not too cheaty.

UPDATE: They sieged again two minutes later alongside a caravan and murdered me before I could get my walls back up. TPK.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Warlord255 on November 05, 2008, 10:01:55 pm

I started up a world with my slightly tweaked ones - upon checking out the world history map, I found one Orcish empire which contained 18 Human ruins.

Reading their history, they are utterly horrible. Hundreds of animal enemies, an unfathomable gloat of murdered and abused corpses, and one warlord who ruled for eighty-seven years, barely topping the eighty-two year rule of the founding demon empress.

Truly, these are worthy foes.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Thuellai on November 05, 2008, 10:13:50 pm

I'm playing humans to try and live completely off of contained meat so that I can wall everything off. They're terrible.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on November 05, 2008, 10:14:44 pm

Quote from: Thuellai on November 05, 2008, 09:11:00 pm

Before that, though, they took out 7 dwarves (two of which were my starting 7 and Legendary Miners). Nice little swarm, and only a little bit of iron to "mine" off them so they're not too cheaty.

UPDATE: They sieged again two minutes later alongside a caravan and murdered me before I could get my walls back up. TPK.

See, the iron is more a reward for surviving than a way to mine. At least, that's how I intended it. Plus, wait until you get crossboworcs and boworcs.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Thuellai on November 05, 2008, 10:20:32 pm

Oh, yeah, I know. There was a crossboworc. I was mauled. Total fortress death.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Warlord255 on November 06, 2008, 12:06:37 am

On an odd note, I removed crossbows from their weapon list - in order to deny myself the treasure-loot that is their bolts - and while visiting an Orc fortress, they had a crossbow orc.

BTW, I would change their letter to a capital O, if only to reflect their larger size.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Thuellai on November 06, 2008, 12:16:10 am

They're so dwarfcore I worked a reclamation group to their deaths in the name of building a complete wall around this area (it's a VERY BIG wall, for an aboveground human fort), and they're now spiralling to their death. I'm gonna wait until they all die and then re-reclaim with a group actually intended to survive.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Warlord255 on November 06, 2008, 02:17:42 am

My last site had a major river which murdered my framerate, so this one is going to be a 3x3 with a magma pipe in the center.

Snakefeasts, the Temple of Gore!

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Thuellai on November 07, 2008, 05:31:05 am

...4 page siege.

Optimus Prime, please save me.

That is all.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Warlord255 on November 07, 2008, 02:46:57 pm

Quote from: Thuellai on November 07, 2008, 05:31:05 am

...4 page siege.

Optimus Prime, please save me.

That is all.

You forgot to tell us how many dwarves you have at that moment.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Thuellai on November 07, 2008, 04:32:48 pm

'Bout 60.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Warlord255 on November 07, 2008, 04:57:17 pm

They don't outnumber you yet. Quit crying. :P

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Thuellai on November 07, 2008, 05:07:01 pm

Actually, I'm pretty sure they do. My guys only number two pages. (big screen resolution). They're still at 5. 7 squads, each one is about 15 orcs.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Warlord255 on November 07, 2008, 05:11:45 pm

whoops, sorry. I just redid the math. >_<

So, uh, yea.
That is a total of... 76 orcs versus 60 dwarves?

...

...

...

The OP deserves the violent Dwarven equivalent of the Nobel Peace Prize.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Jay on November 07, 2008, 05:13:36 pm

A: 16 orcs, 5 losses
D : 7 dwarves, all lost

...I didn't even get a chance to set up my forge.
These things are insane!

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Warlord255 on November 07, 2008, 05:47:31 pm

I'm in the Summer of my second year, at a site which is at the intersection of two Orcish domains (according to the legends map anyway).

Still no attacks.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Jay on November 07, 2008, 08:08:08 pm

I got a 16 orc siege in the first summer of my fort.
Are your INVADERS even turned on?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on November 07, 2008, 09:04:02 pm

Quote from: Warlord255 on November 07, 2008, 05:47:31 pm

I'm in the Summer of my second year, at a site which is at the intersection of two Orcish domains (according to the legends map anyway).

Still no attacks.

If you aren't trading or producing, they won't come without lots of dwarves (tales of wealth, remember?), which given Snakefeasts, may not be happening. What are your produced/imported wealth numbers?

On the other hand, if you can see two civs of orcs, when they do attack they will likely come in massive numbers. And maybe kill each other (I'm not sure if you can get two sieges of them at the same time, haven't tested that yet. I think the no-speaking might make them hostile to each other, so they might kill each other in the absence of dwarves)

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Thuellai on November 07, 2008, 09:08:43 pm

Dude, seriously. Two sieges at once? You'd better be able to close that place up entirely - that's the only way my current (human) fort has survived as long as it is
And nobody's going outside until the entire trade tunnel is filled with cage traps.
And even then!

*gonna catch three or four sieges and build them a pit, then remove the wall someday when I finally get bored*

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Warlord255 on November 07, 2008, 09:39:33 pm

Quote from: Thuellai on November 07, 2008, 09:08:43 pm

Dude, seriously. Two sieges at once? You'd better be able to close that place up entirely - that's the only way my current (human) fort has survived as long as it is
And nobody's going outside until the entire trade tunnel is filled with cage traps.
And even then!

*gonna catch three or four sieges and build them a pit, then remove the wall someday when I finally get bored*

I'm not sure that having them overlap and fight each other is possible right now; later when the Army Arc gets fleshed out better, maybe.

As far as wealth goes right now:

Pop. 19 (just got immigrants; was 20 before I offed a useless punk with pets)
Created wealth: 34300
Imported: 50056
Exported: 630

Probably not enough to warrant attack. As far as defense systems go, I'm working on a magma moat with a wildfire starting system integrated into it at four points.

Of course, it would be cowardly of me to seal the moat off completely, so I'll be making zig-zaggy floor bridges. That way, an archer or two can slow them down some before they get to the center.

For the record, I've deduced that axes are the best way to handle these buggers. Since most forms of organ damage (pain) won't slow them down, severed limbs and bisections/decapitations are the most assured means of stopping them. Barring that, hammers and maces to knock them into the moat, and possibly collapse bombs to splash them with magma.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Thuellai on November 07, 2008, 09:52:36 pm

Good call, I'll start using that.

I've only seen them siege post-20 people, when I had a Sheriff. But as soon as you do...

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Warlord255 on November 07, 2008, 11:28:14 pm

Quote from: Thuellai on November 07, 2008, 09:52:36 pm

Good call, I'll start using that.

I've only seen them siege post-20 people, when I had a Sheriff. But as soon as you do...

I never get a Sheriff. Don't have to worry about failed mandates killing anyone that way, or needing a retard-suicidal Fortress Guard.

It's early Autumn now, and the caravan is here. I hope I get sieged now, the magma moat/firestarter isn't ready.

Edit: For the record, my firestarter system is hardwired such that I cannot use it to flood the perimeter of my fortress with magma. v__v

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Jay on November 08, 2008, 06:47:20 pm

I don't know what your problem is that they're waiting until 20 dwarves.
I got them in the first summer, when I had 7 and no defenses whatsoever.
It's probably your fortress wealth isn't high enough.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Warlord255 on November 08, 2008, 07:49:12 pm

A VILE FORCE OF DARKNESS HAS ARRIVED

Only one 12-pack, but still.

HELL YES.

This is at ~40 dwarves.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Thuellai on November 08, 2008, 08:22:27 pm

Weird, I usually get two or three times the number of orcs as I have dwarfs, or at least 1.5x. Well, maybe once you finish off this siege, the next one will be worse.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Warlord255 on November 08, 2008, 10:27:00 pm

Quote from: Thuellai on November 08, 2008, 08:22:27 pm

Weird, I usually get two or three times the number of orcs as I have dwarfs, or at least 1.5x. Well, maybe once you finish off this siege, the next one will be worse.

Does it help that this particular Orcish empire - according to Legends mode - has an area of influence that is big enough that it contains 20 human ruins?

Or that I'm at the intersection of this and another orcish civ?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Warlord255 on November 08, 2008, 11:44:36 pm

Last siege took a massive toll. Three squads, managed to kill them with help from the caravan guards. Unfortunately, I set off my firestarter prematurely, and now cannot stop it as my defenders stand trapped outside...

Annoying note: the Orcs never come with their names, even if they have them on the civ screen. This is somewhat saddening.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on November 08, 2008, 11:56:20 pm

Quote from: Warlord255 on November 08, 2008, 11:44:36 pm

Last siege took a massive toll. Three squads, managed to kill them with help from the caravan guards. Unfortunately, I set off my firestarter prematurely, and now cannot stop it as my defenders stand trapped outside...

Annoying note: the Orcs never come with their names, even if they have them on the civ screen. This is somewhat saddening.

Were they three squads of 12? I also thought that 12 was a bit low for them with ~40 dwarves, but 36 would be a perfectly acceptable number.

I'm now trying to tweak the parameters to see if I can get massive (>80) orc sieges to happen, or if 80 is a hard limit somewhere.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Warlord255 on November 09, 2008, 12:40:20 am

I... oh god.

They slaughtered us. They slaughtered everything.

...

...

...

THANK YOU.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Thuellai on November 09, 2008, 09:48:24 am

Related to the axe revelation, serrated discs seem to be an effective weapon-trap addition. Perhaps it truly is as Urist McLincoln said:

"An orc divided from his legs cannot stand."

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Jake on November 09, 2008, 12:20:31 pm

These guys are so going in for my next worldgen. But not until I get my Piecemaker mod to work. Though not even 800 GORE damage sounds like it'll be enough...

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Matthias on November 09, 2008, 12:32:18 pm

(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q17/Mattayu/orcs.png)

I made this with some conversion to VeryInky's set. Maybe you could use them? I dunno.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Jay on November 09, 2008, 01:13:25 pm

Quote from: Jake on November 09, 2008, 12:20:31 pm

These guys are so going in for my next worldgen. But not until I get my Piecemaker mod to work. Though not even 800 GORE damage sounds like it'll be enough...

Whatever happened to that thread?
I got it (the piecemaker) to work perfectly by doing exactly what I said to do there...

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Warlord255 on November 09, 2008, 02:19:35 pm

The nameless orcs thing is getting on my nerves; I'm going to add ~~CAN_SPEAK and UNINTELLIGABLE~~ UTTERANCES to see if it gives them names without allowing them to make peace with anything.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: arghy on November 09, 2008, 02:35:25 pm

My orc civs have names but none of the orks seem to have any names on the map, which is kind of fitting because if they breed so fast how are you going to tell which orc that one is? I changed my starting config to include 15 dwarves with the proper amount of food/booze/seeds to ensure they dont die before i can get it rolling, i quickly delved into the stone layers and dug out 4 huge chambers so i could build my walls and moat with its drawbridge. I have 15 dwarves my wealth is at 42000(obsian is worth to damn much!) and my first autumn has already seen a siege of 15 orcs marveling at my pretty drawbridge.

I love in the legends screen it details them hanging corpses at their towns and this orky splinter town had over 5 screen lengths of unknown corpses getting strung up and every single human town has like half their populations as guards. Do they attack gobbos? i would love to see a gobbo siege waltzing in then an ork siege right behind them slaughtering them.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Jake on November 09, 2008, 04:13:31 pm

Quote from: jaybud4 on November 09, 2008, 01:13:25 pm

Whatever happened to that thread?
I got it (the piecemaker) to work perfectly by doing exactly what I said to do there...[/quote]
Maybe it's because I'm still on .40c, but I had problems getting more than one type of ranged weapon to coexist for my dwarves; not sure if that was just because they used the same ammunition or not, but I got a nice fortress going after I ironed it out and didn't want to start playing with the raw files lest I bugger up my existing worldgen. At some point I'll get around to making a second copy of DF to use as a test bed.

Edit: The weapon we're discussing may be found here. (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=25743.msg299709#msg299709) Happy orc-splattering!

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Jay on November 09, 2008, 07:10:42 pm

Why not upgrade to 40d?
..I don't see any reason to wait... We have like 4 months by Toady estimation before the next version...
I have multiple ranged weapons co-existing perfectly, including ones that use the same ammo: only problem is that the ammo is repeated multiple times in the forges/bow(y?)er's shop.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Jake on November 10, 2008, 11:22:45 am

Quote from: jaybud4 on November 09, 2008, 07:10:42 pm

Why not upgrade to 40d?
..I don't see any reason to wait... We have like 4 months by Toady estimation before the next version...

To be honest, I figure it isn't worth the hassle of backing up all my mods and downloading the new version over a mediocre DSL connection just to fix a handful of minor bugs, some of which I hadn't even noticed.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Warlord255 on November 11, 2008, 02:34:27 am

DO NOT ADD UTTERANCES.

IT CAUSES THEM TO GO TO AT-PEACE.

GOD DAMN I WAS LOVING THIS FORT SO MUCH UNTIL I REALIZED THEY AREN'T GOING TO ATTACK ANYMORE.

I'm giving them 'till autumn to get their shit together. If they don't siege again by then, I'm throwing my hands in the air.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: arghy on November 11, 2008, 05:32:13 am

Uh they arent attacking enough make em more fighty! also any chance of making another race or just making gobbos more fighty also? what about beastmen? I NEED CONSTANT SIEGES- it would just be better to make some special thing you could make that ensures constant sieges and attacks so at a certain point you could just build it and wait for the fun.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on November 11, 2008, 02:43:54 pm

Quote from: arghy on November 11, 2008, 05:32:13 am

Uh they arent attacking enough make em more fighty! also any chance of making another race or just making gobbos more fighty also? what about beastmen? I NEED CONSTANT SIEGES- it would just be better to make some special thing you could make that ensures constant sieges and attacks so at a certain point you could just build it and wait for the fun.

Distance to their nearest civ definitely seems to affect their ability to attack you, so you might check where they show up in the embark screen. To help get some close by, you might try increasing the number of civs at worldgen, since it's unlikely that anything will kill them off (so more civs = more orc civs = more sieges). They definitely do attack, though, and are about as fighty as you can get.

In general, the more hostile civs you have, the more sieges you'll get. If you wanted more sieges, you could try making the Orcs more active (adding spring and winter to their active seasons) or creating more non-speaking civs with different active seasons (maybe a winter/spring, spring/summer, summer/fall (Orcs), and fall/winter civ?). I think you want to have many short civs rather than a few long civs so they refresh if you kill a siege off.

Once my current test fort is done (testing if I can get >80 orc sieges, and hopefully if they bring along animals/trolls as well), I'll see if I can think of some well-flavored other civs to throw in. The only problem I can see with constant sieges is that once they start, you'll have no caravans reaching you (I've heard sieges can replace caravans, and even if they didn't, it would likely die getting to your fort), and you'd have liaisons/diplomats dying left and right, which might mess things up a bit too much. As I said, though, I'll see.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on November 11, 2008, 02:46:12 pm

Quote from: Warlord255 on November 09, 2008, 02:19:35 pm

The nameless orcs thing is getting on my nerves; I'm going to add ~~CAN_SPEAK and UNINTELLIGABLE~~ UTTERANCES to see if it gives them names without allowing them to make peace with anything.

I'm not sure that they are nameless. I've definitely seen named orcs (normally after they have killed off most of my dwarves), so you just might not have activated them enough to get the pre-named ones. First/second goblin sieges normally don't have named goblins, either.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: arghy on November 11, 2008, 03:10:45 pm

I've had sieges replace caravans and i've seen a caravan arrive with a siege behind it- thats when it gets fun when the caravan guards hold off the 60 gobbos long enough for the wagons to get into my walled winding entrance then my marksdwarves begin to thin their numbers. I pretty much only need literally 3-4 planned caravans before im completely self reliant and only need caravans for useless items.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Brendan on November 11, 2008, 03:25:09 pm

EDIT: n/m :)

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Wolenber on November 11, 2008, 11:59:24 pm

Warlord, your HORDE entity has it listed as [trANSLATION:GOBLIN] instead of [trANSLATION:GOBLIN].

I'm not sure if that matters, but it's the only thing I can think of for the whole nameless thing.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Warlord255 on November 12, 2008, 12:05:57 am

Not that it matters.

THEY CAME BACK! In the winter, oddly.

...and I almost died.

Also, some major pathfinding issues (read: heavily directed towards entrance from the south, they arrived in the north) saved my skin from the third squad... but, uh, yea.

Shit is so cash.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on November 12, 2008, 02:03:35 am

Quote from: Warlord255 on November 12, 2008, 12:05:57 am

Not that it matters.

THEY CAME BACK! In the winter, oddly.

...and I almost died.

Also, some major pathfinding issues (read: heavily directed towards entrance from the south, they arrived in the north) saved my skin from the third squad... but, uh, yea.

Shit is so cash.

If they killed some of your dwarves, did you see any named ones show up?

I think that the image that sticks in my mind and confirms that orcs can have names is that I remember the first fort that I tried with them (back before I knew what they were capable of) I forgot to remove one of the ramps leading up to my aboveground farming plateau. Anyway, they found their way in, slaughtered my army, and proceeded to wipe out my fort. As I watched the last dwarf in the depths die, I prepared to re-embark, but the "Your strength has been broken" didn't appear. I looked at the unit screen and saw that one of my dwarves was still alive, somehow, and zoomed to it.

He was up at the very top, where they had first come in. He was also unconscious, and being held by two orc wrestlers.

The leader of the orcs, now an axe lord, and definitely with a name, walked up to my one surviving dwarf as they two wrestlers held him down.

At¡r Bomrekidek, Recruit has been struck down.

Yeah. That's around when I decided that I had to post them here.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: TerminatorII on November 12, 2008, 06:18:43 am

sweet, trying this out on a *special* swamp world.... hehe

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Warlord255 on November 12, 2008, 02:22:33 pm

Quote from: Rysith on November 12, 2008, 02:03:35 am

Quote from: Warlord255 on November 12, 2008, 12:05:57 am
Not that it matters.

THEY CAME BACK! In the winter, oddly.

...and I almost died.

Also, some major pathfinding issues (read: heavily directed towards entrance from the south, they arrived in the north) saved my skin from the third squad... but, uh, yea.

Shit is so cash.

If they killed some of your dwarves, did you see any named ones show up?

I think that the image that sticks in my mind and confirms that orcs can have names is that I remember the first fort that I tried with them (back before I knew what they were capable of) I forgot to remove one of the ramps leading up to my aboveground farming plateau. Anyway, they found their way in, slaughtered my army, and proceeded to wipe out my fort. As I watched the last dwarf in the depths die, I prepared to re-embark, but the "Your strength has been broken" didn't appear. I looked at the unit screen and saw that one of my dwarves was still alive, somehow, and zoomed to it.

He was up at the very top, where they had first come in. He was also unconscious, and being held by two orc wrestlers.

The leader of the orcs, now an axe lord, and definitely with a name, walked up to my one surviving dwarf as they two wrestlers held him down.

At¡r Bomrekidek, Recruit has been struck down.

Yeah. That's around when I decided that I had to post them here.

The ones who get kills get names, yes, though if they don't they just show up as "the orc" in the kills list.

And that story is pretty epic.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: IronValley on November 14, 2008, 12:27:12 pm

Tried reading up a bit on modding, but I fail miserably everytime I touch the RAWs.

I'm supposed to add the Civ text to the top of "entity_default" and the Creatures to "creature_new", and then generate a new world?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Warlord255 on November 14, 2008, 07:08:57 pm

If you want, I can upload my versions of the entity_default and creature_standard. Though for my next version I'm changing the letter to a capital O, to reflect their terrifying size.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Balathustrius on November 15, 2008, 01:57:47 am

Thanks for posting these. Had a warband of ~15 drop by in my first Autumn, just as I finished the perimeter wall. Luckily some merchants were around to help fight them off. These guys are much scarier than the goblins; they go a long way toward satiating the dwarven craving for war.

Quote from: Rysith on November 12, 2008, 02:03:35 am

I think that the image that sticks in my mind and confirms that orcs can have names is that I remember the first fort that I tried with them (back before I knew what they were capable of) I forgot to remove one of the ramps leading up to my aboveground farming plateau. Anyway, they found their way in, slaughtered my army, and proceeded to wipe out my fort. As I watched the last dwarf in the depths die, I prepared to re-embark, but the "Your strength has been broken" didn't appear. I looked at the unit screen and saw that one of my dwarves was still alive, somehow, and zoomed to it.

He was up at the very top, where they had first come in. He was also unconscious, and being held by two orc wrestlers.

The leader of the orcs, now an axe lord, and definitely with a name, walked up to my one surviving dwarf as they two wrestlers held him down.

At¡r Bomrekidek, Recruit has been struck down.

Yeah. That's around when I decided that I had to post them here.

Very nice.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: i are not good with compu on November 20, 2008, 08:53:09 am

*bump*

I was thinking about implementing a modified version of this. I have some questions as to whether some of it could work and how:

1. How do I make them ride mounts? I've heard of Goblins and Elves doing this when they siege. I would like orcs to ride something suitably terrible into battle, like specially modified War Elephants.
2. Is it possible to have them fight alongside certain monsters? Specifically, I'd like them to siege with trolls in toe.
3. Will "Baby_Snatcher" interfere with anything, like say their tendency for perpetual war?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Warlord255 on November 20, 2008, 09:36:35 am

Quote from: i are not good with compu on November 20, 2008, 08:53:09 am

*bump*

I was thinking about implementing a modified version of this. I have some questions as to whether some of it could work and how:

1. How do I make them ride mounts? I've heard of Goblins and Elves doing this when they siege. I would like orcs to ride something suitably terrible into battle, like specially modified War Elephants.
2. Is it possible to have them fight alongside certain monsters? Specifically, I'd like them to siege with trolls in toe.
3. Will "Baby_Snatcher" interfere with anything, like say their tendency for perpetual war?

1 & 2, which are Goblin behaviors, seem to be out of whack currently, for some reason.

As for 3, the only reason they attack early and often is precisely BECAUSE they lack the BABYSNATCHER tag.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: i are not good with compu on November 20, 2008, 09:53:05 am

Wait. Triple post? Goddamn.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: i are not good with compu on November 20, 2008, 09:53:56 am

Dubble prost :(

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: i are not good with compu on November 20, 2008, 09:54:28 am

Quote from: Warlord255 on November 20, 2008, 09:36:35 am

1 & 2, which are Goblin behaviors, seem to be out of whack currently, for some reason.

As for 3, the only reason they attack early and often is precisely BECAUSE they lack the BABYSNATCHER tag.

Well, damn. How bugged (concerning mounts and ally monsters) are we talking here? It seems to happen, which is enough for me. If the behavior is very rare, mounts and cohorts could be made suitably overpowered to compensate.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on November 20, 2008, 01:27:17 pm

Something that I'm going to try as soon as I get them working again (taking away their non-leather clothing seemed to break their ability to wage war effectively. 30 Orcs in year 4 is not good enough!) is adding other creatures to their civ. I read somewhere on here that that makes them pets, and hopefully that means that if I give them pets they will bring them into battle. That's the hope, anyway. Current candidates for pets are a modified GCS or giant wolf, though I could see war elephants with [BUILDINGDESTROYER:1] added and a bunch of DAMBLOCK ;D.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Tigershark13 on November 22, 2008, 03:41:38 pm

so many orks..... so s-

BEES AND ORKS! A WAR BETWEEN THE BEE'S AND THE ORKS. A horde of unstoppable insects that outnumber the orks 10 to 1 verses an army of uber beasts :P

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on November 27, 2008, 04:47:19 pm

New version released! Orcs will kill you dead! Updated first post!

Also, when you generate your world, read the legends about the orcs. They do crazy things, like singlehandedly kill giant desert scorpions after losing one of their legs, and fighting off goblins while outnumbered 5:1.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Warlord255 on November 27, 2008, 04:53:24 pm

You have some formatting/typo problems (lines should be tab-spaced, not three-spacebar-spaced, littersize/likes fighting not capitalized, trap components and littersize also).

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on November 27, 2008, 05:17:23 pm

hmm, I think that's the forum trying to prevent me from injecting HTML into my posts for evil. I'll try sticking it in a [code ] block.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Tormy on November 27, 2008, 05:23:17 pm

Quote from: sdu on November 05, 2008, 02:04:27 am

I just made some orcs too

Orcs = must have in all fantasy worlds! I will make an orc race also, when I start to work on my TC mod..but that won't happen tomorrow, I am waiting for the army arc to be implemented. :)

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: onehellofatable on November 30, 2008, 05:50:03 pm

I was really excited to get a siege of 12 fairly early on, but they just got bored and left after less than a season, what the fudge? :(

That's disappointing.

Edit:wrong amount of time :P

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Warlord255 on November 30, 2008, 05:59:23 pm

Quote from: onehellofatable on November 30, 2008, 05:50:03 pm

I was really excited to get a siege of 12 fairly early on, but they just got bored and left after less than a season, what the fudge? :(

That's disappointing.

Edit:wrong amount of time :P

Did you fight them or just hole up?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: onehellofatable on December 01, 2008, 12:38:22 am

Holed up!

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on December 01, 2008, 01:03:10 am

Quote from: onehellofatable on December 01, 2008, 12:38:22 am

Holed up!

Yep, if you hole up they leave quickly, should be about a season. That's what they are supposed to do. Would you sit around outside some hole in the ground if there was something else to loot and plunder?

Don't worry, they will be back. And try fighting them this time. ;D

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: onehellofatable on December 01, 2008, 01:05:27 am

You make a good point hehe...

Yeah, I just didn't have any weapons or armor... made em in a hurry, but wasn't fast enough unfortunately... gotta spill me some orc blood.

Will they stick around longer if they've tasted a bit of combat with you?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on December 01, 2008, 02:21:57 pm

They just use the normal siegeing routine with two disjoint active seasons. They shouldn't disengage while fighting you, though they might leave if they kill a dwarf or two and then you seal yourself off.

Of course, in my experience with them, it tends to end up in a single epic battle in front of my fortress, and then either I win and spend the rest of the season cleaning up and burying the dead, or they win and wipe my fortress. So, you might not need them to stick around that long once combat has been joined.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: onehellofatable on December 01, 2008, 06:38:21 pm

Yeah, ended up figuring that out the hard way haha. They showed up in force quite shortly after.

Thanks a lot, I'm having a lot of fun with this race :)

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Jay on December 01, 2008, 08:59:52 pm

If they can't path to a dwarf, they sit around and eventually leave.
Thus: Holing up is the ultimate defense.
Not the ultimate defensive mechanism.
See the difference?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: jdarksun on December 08, 2008, 10:17:02 am

Do you need to do anything special to add the orcs as creatures, or just put them in the creature_standard.txt file?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Warlord255 on December 08, 2008, 03:02:11 pm

Quote from: jdarksun on December 08, 2008, 10:17:02 am

Do you need to do anything special to add the orcs as creatures, or just put them in the creature_standard.txt file?

As long as they're in creature_standard .txt and are spaced out properly, you'll be fine.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Jay on December 08, 2008, 07:56:25 pm

Quote from: Warlord255 on December 08, 2008, 03:02:11 pm

Quote from: jdarksun on December 08, 2008, 10:17:02 am
Do you need to do anything special to add the orcs as creatures, or just put them in the creature_standard.txt file?

As long as they're in creature_standard .txt and are spaced out properly, you'll be fine.

As long as entries are separated by a whitespace line.
As for token spacing: As far as I've seen, the space this forum interprets the tabbing from the raws currently still works when brought back into the game.
That is to say:
The forums don't allow tabs.
It replaces tabs in copy-pasted lines (from the raws) with a certain amount of whitespace.
That amount still works in place of the tabs when injected back into the raws.
However, the [liKES_FIGHTING] and [trAINABLE] issues with [ LI_____] and [ TR______] do cause problems. Everything in the raws except for strings (names, prefstrings, stuff of that nature) must be capitalized!

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Marlowe on December 08, 2008, 11:28:38 pm

I generated two worlds with these guys, in using my in-progress Faerie mod.

(Ironworking, non-cannibal, wetland dwelling, dark-fortress-liking, road-building, cougar-training Elves (Faerie) as the controllable civ, better bronze factors, sharpenable flint, jet that's actually valuable...just a few tweaks here and there).

The first world they either didn't survive world-gen or were cut off from everyone else. They didn't appear as neighbours and legends had few mentions of them, and then mostly of humans attacking and defeating them.

The second world they smashed a few Elven Tree Cities (HEY! That's our job!) and got stuck in a hundred years-plus conflict with a Faerie civ. Both sides eventually had one of their fortresses captured only to retake it shortly afterwards.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on December 09, 2008, 01:12:29 pm

If someone else is able to attack them at the very beginning, world gen combat can allow them to die (especially vs. humans, since they end up on approximately equal footing with the humans until they can outbreed them, and we all know the kind of randomness that the world gen will throw in). As long as they are alive, though, you should see two 80-orc sieges a year more or less indefinitely by year two or so.

I can also now confirm that Orcs will bring beak dogs along with them on sieges. Does anyone know if beak dogs as siege mounts are hard-coded somewhere, or if this means that I can add in my spider-and-war-elephant-riding orcs in (since they really need a building destroyer, but I don't want to give it to the average orc. War elephants breaking down doors, though, is completely reasonable).

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Sevrun on December 09, 2008, 06:48:47 pm

no clue, but how do I add them into my game? Noob question I know, but it's one I have to ask since I have 0 experience as any kind of programmer. Just started classes on it this last quarter though.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Marlowe on December 09, 2008, 06:51:47 pm

You just have to copy_paste the two spoilers at the start of the thread into, respectively, Creature Standard and Entity Default in the raws folder.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Sevrun on December 10, 2008, 09:48:38 am

ok tried em out, and while I didn't get an overly large number of them in the first blitz it was certainly a nice change of pace to have to defend myself before I broke 120+ dwarves when most of us have at least a half dozen multichampioned warriors that can slay anything short of a dragon solo.

I lost five people and got some very interesting new ideas for defensive entrances since I refuse to overload my entryway with enough traps to slay gods and their kittens.

Thanks mate :)

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Marlowe on December 10, 2008, 11:45:45 am

Yeah... I think I overdid it.

ORC MASTER LASHER: COME BOYS! THEIR MILITARY IS OUTNUMBERED THREE TO ONNNNNNUUUUUURG[Weapontrap][weapontrap]

LASHERS: OK. That wasn't good. Let's just stand here and see what happens.

ORC SPEARMASTER LEADING CARVERS: COME ON BOYS! THE ARROWS DON'T HURT US!

CARVER: Yeah, but didn't I used to have arms?

SPEARMASTER: CHAAAAAAAARGH....[weapontrap][weapontrap]

CARVERS: OK, we're going to just stand over HERE and see what happens.

LASHERS: But YOU are still being shot at.

CARVERS: We fear no arrrrrooooowwwwgh.... [DIE]

MACE LORD LEADING MAULERS: COME ON BOYS!

LASHERS: Ummm. I'd rethink this.....

[Gruesome mechanical carnage]

MACE LORD: Sod me. I've fallen in a ditch. And half my boys are dead.

LASHER FOUR: Have they looked angry yet?

LASHER SEVEN: No. Bored.

LASHER FOUR: Right, lets's just go.

MACE LORD: HEY GUYS! I'M STILL STUCK IN THIS DITCH!

FEY ELITE WRESTLER WITH BOW: Yup. [SQUITCH] Now you're stuck on the refuse stockpile.

Maybe 12 levels of weapon traps was overkill. Nah. What am I saying. There is no overkill. There's just "enemy not dead" and "enemy dead".

Learned some valuable lessons though.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Warlord255 on December 10, 2008, 12:07:45 pm

Lesson No. 1, Marlowe: Never give them an avenue for escape.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on December 10, 2008, 01:50:45 pm

Quote from: Marlowe on December 10, 2008, 11:45:45 am

Yeah... I think I overdid it.

/*snip gruesome death */

Maybe 12 levels of weapon traps was overkill. Nah. What am I saying. There is no overkill. There's just "enemy not dead" and "enemy dead".

Learned some valuable lessons though.

My only question, I suppose, if how you managed to get 12 layers of weapon traps up before they showed up. I suppose that the first few sieges were spent hiding underground?

There really should be a way to make it more difficult for you to seal yourself without giving them flying and buildingdestroyer. Hopefully the army arc will introduce ways to cross moats and break doors/drawbridges/weapon traps.

As a side note, I try to avoid sealing myself if at all possible, and keep no automatic traps in the entranceway (spikes, retracting drawbridges, etc. are still fine, and quite dwarven). Makes the Orcs much more difficult.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Sevrun on December 10, 2008, 03:13:12 pm

the most I tend to use are the one shots, a few stone traps, and I had a retractable bridge, I just elected not to use it because my military was right there waiting for them... til my squad leader decided a snack was more important than defending the fort :S

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Marlowe on December 10, 2008, 06:33:06 pm

It was only the second siege, summer of year three. And no, I didn't hide from the first one.

I spent most of first spring building a channel around a nice big area to defend, with only one way in. Because of all the time this took, plus endless exploratory mining to find coal, our first year wasn't very productive in terms of trade goods. I think this led to them taking longer to turn up. Not that I'm complaining. It worked out well.

The traps themselves are loaded with Flint Greatswords and Green Glass serrated Disks, plus a few flails and such left by the last siege (it must have been one of those that knocked the Mace Lord in the pit. Irony with real iron) and a sprinkling of large daggers. Only 3-4 weapons per trap. With a legendary glassmaker it doesn't take long to put them up, and I had six months.

As hinted at above, [NO_FEAR][NO_PAIN]=not retarded enough to run into the same trapped corridor that just eviscerated your leaders, but retarded enough to stand under bowfire and get picked off one by one.

I don't mind them escaping just how. Hauling corpses is hard work.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Orkel on December 12, 2008, 04:55:31 pm

I'm at 60 dwarves already and no orcs to be seen, is this normal at all? How much wealth do I need to raise their interest?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on December 12, 2008, 05:55:53 pm

Quote from: Orkel on December 12, 2008, 04:55:31 pm

I'm at 60 dwarves already and no orcs to be seen, is this normal at all? How much wealth do I need to raise their interest?

That's not normal at all. They should come at around 1000 exported wealth, 20 dwarves, or roughly 70K fortress wealth, whichever comes first. Some common problems:

Are they neighbors with you (did you see them in the embark screen with a red ------ next to their name?)

Did you regenerate your world after adding them? (if they don't have a civ to attack from, they won't attack at all)

Are you using orcs that have had their professions improperly stripped? (for some reason, the first few attempts at stripping their professions made late-arriving pacifist orcs)

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Orkel on December 13, 2008, 04:50:12 am

Yeah, no problems with those. They finally sieged me, with one squad which had crushers and wrestlers. Guess they were just a bit late to the party.

My modified arrows barely damaged them at all (bludgeon, less damage), after around 200 of them were fired, two were dead and half were wounded. So I sent my three melee dwarves: one hammerlord, a macedwarf and a hammerdwarf against them. And they finished the orcs off, although I lost two wardogs.

Can't wait for bigger sieges. I'm so screwed.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Marlowe on December 14, 2008, 05:47:13 am

Quote from: Rysith on December 12, 2008, 05:55:53 pm

That's not normal at all. They should come at around 1000 exported wealth, 20 dwarves, or roughly 70K fortress wealth, whichever comes first. Some common problems:

If that's true then they won't usually arrive in the first year when playing Faerie. The Fey caravan arrives too late to trigger them, and the other conditions aren't usually met by the end of the first year.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Tormy on December 14, 2008, 08:13:49 am

Goblins are SIZE:6, and Humans are SIZE:7 in the vanilla game. I think that Orcs must be SIZE:8 [like a werewolf for example] , but it's your mod, so it's not my business. :)

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Marlowe on December 14, 2008, 08:48:33 am

Depends on your definition of "Orc". Tolkien's were supposed to be a little smaller than humans, and in D&D they're about the same. It was Games Workshop that decided Orcs should be green and massive.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: TrombonistAndrew on December 14, 2008, 12:29:17 pm

I believe that Tolkien had a specific breed of Mordor orcs which were bigger than humans. I forget the name, though. It wasn't Uruk-Hai; those were Saruman's.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Tormy on December 14, 2008, 12:52:38 pm

Quote from: TrombonistAndrew on December 14, 2008, 12:29:17 pm

I believe that Tolkien had a specific breed of Mordor orcs which were bigger than humans. I forget the name, though. It wasn't Uruk-Hai; those were Saruman's.

I believe that those are the Hobgoblins [A name for the larger kinds of Orc found in Middle-earth in the Third Age], since the "Great Orcs" are the Uruk-hai basically. [A common name for the large soldier-orcs of Mordor and later also Isengard that troubled Gondor and Rohan in the late Third Age. This name is only ever used by Éomer, and may only have been current in Rohan, but the fearsome creatures it described had been known for five hundred years when he spoke these words: creatures whose name in their own Black Speech was Uruk-hai.]

Another possibility:
Orcs of the Mountains
A race of Orcs that inhabited the Misty Mountains. They were of a recognisably different kind to other Orcs, being somewhat larger than most, and well adapted for life in their tunnels beneath the Mountains. Their most important contribution to history was at the beginning of the Third Age, when they descended from their Mountains to attack Isildur as he rode home from the War of the Last Alliance. Thus, the Orcs of the Mountains were directly responsible for the loss of the Ruling Ring that Isildur carried.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Orkel on December 18, 2008, 12:54:49 pm

I've got a problem. The orcs retreat way too fast. How do I get them to fight until the last one of them is dead? It's not that fun to kill off some and see the rest of the huge force running away, as seen in this video.

http://www.mkv25.net/dfma/movie-991-championsfendofflargeorcforce

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on December 18, 2008, 01:01:51 pm

Quote from: Orkel on December 18, 2008, 12:54:49 pm

I've got a problem. The orcs retreat way too fast. How do I get them to fight until the last one of them is dead? It's not that fun to kill off some and see the rest of the huge force running away, as seen in this video.

As I said before, the Orcs use the same siege code that the goblins do, since I can't change it. While NO_FEAR should prevent them from running away when injured, it doesn't prevent them from retreating when their squad leader dies, which I suspect is what is happening here.

As I mentioned above when asked about them leaving fairly quickly after the dwarves sealed themselves in, it seems like a reasonable behavior for them to have. You throw overwhelming force at them, and they retreat. If you want them to stay and fight, you might need to do a bit of redirecting and blocking, rather than fighting on an open plain. Walled courtyards with drawbridges and such.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Orkel on December 18, 2008, 01:38:09 pm

Quote from: Rysith on December 18, 2008, 01:01:51 pm

Quote from: Orkel on December 18, 2008, 12:54:49 pm
I've got a problem. The orcs retreat way too fast. How do I get them to fight until the last one of them is dead? It's not that fun to kill off some and see the rest of the huge force running away, as seen in this video.

As I said before, the Orcs use the same siege code that the goblins do, since I can't change it. While NO_FEAR should prevent them from running away when injured, it doesn't prevent them from retreating when their squad leader dies, which I suspect is what is happening here.

As I mentioned above when asked about them leaving fairly quickly after the dwarves sealed themselves in, it seems like a reasonable behavior for them to have. You throw overwhelming force at them, and they retreat. If you want them to stay and fight, you might need to do a bit of redirecting and blocking, rather than fighting on an open plain. Walled courtyards with drawbridges and such.

Aw, damn. I thought NO_FEAR was supposed to make them unretreatable or something. Seems like I was wrong.

I hope there'll be something in the future which makes sieges last longer :)

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Marlowe on December 19, 2008, 02:59:14 pm

Quote from: Tormy on December 14, 2008, 12:52:38 pm

Quote from: TrombonistAndrew on December 14, 2008, 12:29:17 pm
I believe that Tolkien had a specific breed of Mordor orcs which were bigger than humans. I forget the name, though. It wasn't Uruk-Hai; those were Saruman's.

I believe that those are the Hobgoblins [A name for the larger kinds of Orc found in Middle-earth in the Third Age], since the "Great Orcs" are the Uruk-hai basically. [A common name for the large soldier-orcs of Mordor and later also Isengard that troubled Gondor and Rohan in the late Third Age. This name is only ever used by Éomer, and may only have been current in Rohan, but the fearsome creatures it described had been known for five hundred years when he spoke these words: creatures whose name in their own Black Speech was Uruk-hai.]

Another possibility:
Orcs of the Mountains
A race of Orcs that inhabited the Misty Mountains. They were of a recognisably different kind to other Orcs, being somewhat larger than most, and well adapted for life in their tunnels beneath the Mountains. Their most important contribution to history was at the beginning of the Third Age, when they descended from their Mountains to attack Isildur as he rode home from the War of the Last Alliance. Thus, the Orcs of the Mountains were directly responsible for the loss of the Ruling Ring that Isildur carried.

I don't recall "hobgoblin" ever coming from Tolkien.

Also, since Isildur was basically alone at the time, mugging him has never struck me as a great display of ability.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Tormy on December 19, 2008, 04:07:02 pm

Quote from: Marlowe on December 19, 2008, 02:59:14 pm

Quote from: Tormy on December 14, 2008, 12:52:38 pm
Quote from: TrombonistAndrew on December 14, 2008, 12:29:17 pm
I believe that Tolkien had a specific breed of Mordor orcs which were bigger than humans. I forget the name, though. It wasn't Uruk-Hai; those were Saruman's.

I believe that those are the Hobgoblins [A name for the larger kinds of Orc found in Middle-earth in the Third Age], since the "Great Orcs" are the Uruk-hai basically. [A common name for the large soldier-orcs of Mordor and later also Isengard that troubled Gondor and Rohan in the late Third Age. This name is only ever used by Éomer, and may only have been current in Rohan, but the fearsome creatures it described had been known for five hundred years when he spoke these words: creatures whose name in their own Black Speech was Uruk-hai.]

Another possibility:
Orcs of the Mountains
A race of Orcs that inhabited the Misty Mountains. They were of a recognisably different kind to other Orcs, being somewhat larger than most, and well adapted for life in their tunnels beneath the Mountains. Their most important contribution to history was at the beginning of the Third Age, when they descended from their Mountains to attack Isildur as he rode home from the War of the Last Alliance. Thus, the Orcs of the Mountains were directly responsible for the loss of the Ruling Ring that Isildur carried.

I don't recall "hobgoblin" ever coming from Tolkien.

It does, however they are only mentioned in The Hobbit:

"The term appears so rarely that there is little clear basis for a definition. Its only other occurrence is later in The Hobbit (7, Queer Lodgings) where Gandalf warns Bilbo that the Grey Mountains are 'simply stiff with goblins, hobgoblins, and orcs of the worst description'.
If 'hobgoblin' is just a general term for a large Orc, then their race is old indeed, predating the First Age. If, much less certainly, it refers to the Uruk-hai, then their appearance is more recent: about III 2475. This is recent in terms of the history of Middle-earth, but still five centuries earlier than Bilbo's adventures in The Hobbit.
In fact, 'orcs' appears exactly twice in The Hobbit: once in Gandalf's warning, given above, and once in Chapter 5, Riddles in the Dark: '...even the big ones, orcs of the mountains, go along at great speed...'"

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Marlowe on December 20, 2008, 07:48:13 am

Ah, the nomenclature of the orcoids is not really consistent between "The Hobbit" and the more adult Tolkien books. If we take every use of the words "goblin", "orc" and "hobgoblin" as evidence of a different race, then we have to presume that all the misty mountain goblins died out in between "The Hobbit" and LOTR and were supplanted by orcs.

I just take the view that Orcs have about the same variation in size as humans do, and that these uses of different words mean about as much as "Thugs" and "Ruffians", for example. They refer to the same people, the different words are just for rhetorical effect.

Uruk Hai are a special case because they explicitly refer to themselves as a specific group ("we are the fighting Uruk-Hai...etc"). Plus, the name means "THE Orcs".

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: sdu on December 20, 2008, 09:31:59 am

If you want a race to fight to the bitter end, make a new race rather than writing over the goblin one. My undead never retreated, always fought to the last.

That's how it seemed anyway - they camp like humans though so it can take a while for them to actually rush your fort.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Lord_Shadow on December 22, 2008, 01:51:12 pm

maybe its already been said but in Tolkein ocrs are breed from elves and black magic, so maybe a better language would be elvish?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Ryan1711 on December 23, 2008, 05:16:51 pm

Though those suggestions may all be justified, ultimately these are Rysith's Orcs...NOT Tolkien's.

It's really quite easy to make the modifications yourself, I made some new orcs (though heavily based on these ones) in just minutes from scratch.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: ZealTheSavior on December 23, 2008, 06:59:51 pm

I just made a new world with a slightly modified version of these where their littler is like 4:6 and i have like over 9000 withing year 10

i think this is going to be fun

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Razzums on December 28, 2008, 08:02:54 pm

I think I have a problem. I added the mod, but now when i generate a world and place my fortress i get dotted lines next to goblins and orcs. I think they both died out in the world gen process.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Skid on December 28, 2008, 08:09:49 pm

Dotted line just means that you're semi-hostile to both.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Razzums on December 28, 2008, 08:26:49 pm

Quote from: Skid on December 28, 2008, 08:09:49 pm

Dotted line just means that you're semi-hostile to both.

Will they still attack me?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on January 06, 2009, 08:04:25 pm

Quote from: Razzums on December 28, 2008, 08:26:49 pm

Will they still attack me?

Yep. If you're using the most recent version, they'll probably show up your first winter or second summer, unless your fortress wealth is really low.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: jasonxfri13th on January 22, 2009, 12:05:21 am

do they have graphics?
do they siege often like goblins?
overall will I be attacked more often?
Is it compatible with other graphic sets/tile sets?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Fugue on January 22, 2009, 02:28:17 am

I'm having trouble adjusting to these guys. I walled myself in in preparation for the 1st year winter siege, which came as expected. How do you guys manage to get your dwarves combat ready to face the first wave? I guess I could have brought more bituminous coal on embark, but I'm already smelting 3 picks and an axe on startup and tunneling quick smart to find ore while building a fort and getting farming going. Seems like just as I've got food production, a barracks and my smelting going I've run out of time.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Marlowe on January 22, 2009, 03:05:09 am

ditch, retractable bridge, weapon traps.

If you are very careful to trade no more than 999 dwarf dwarf bucks to the dwarven caravan they should not come in the first winter. It's quite hard to trip the other two triggers they have in the first year. The difference between getting Orcs in first winter and getting them in the second summer is huge. For one thing, you've had migrants and can start putting a military together.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: jasonxfri13th on January 22, 2009, 10:50:52 am

can someone answer my question!
do the orcs have grapgics and is this compatible with other graphic sets like the mayday one?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on January 22, 2009, 12:28:45 pm

Quote from: jasonxfri13th on January 22, 2009, 10:50:52 am

can someone answer my question!
do the orcs have grapgics and is this compatible with other graphic sets like the mayday one?

Orcs have no official graphics (I'm an ASCII person myself, so I didn't make any, and I'm not an artist at all), but I saw earlier in the thread that someone made some. I have no idea how to add those to a graphics pack (though their symbol would be 'O', if that helps).

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: jasonxfri13th on January 22, 2009, 01:00:31 pm

I looked through all of the posts and I could not find any...

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Fugue on January 22, 2009, 08:40:26 pm

I'm a no traps man, myself, so I suppose I'll have to just watch my imports and attract some migrants instead. Well, I'm not completely no traps, but I prefer the man made stuff, like channel flooding. *thinks* I could probably knock up a quick and dirty channel retractable bridge, with a ramp up.

Code: [Select]

____B
#####\____/

Leave the channel empty till the Orcs come then flood it and extend the bridge, covering both exit ramps from the channel... 
It'd require timing, but it should work, right?

I thought about making some Orc graphics but I haven't looked into the graphic tilesets yet. Plus I've been a bit busy which has cut into my DF time. But if nobody beats me to it I'll get around to it soon.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: jarathor on January 22, 2009, 11:15:25 pm

I made some graphics for myself a while ago - the orcs are at the bottom. They're simpler than some of the nicer ones out there. There might be a few problems with the positioning, but that's are easy enough to fix. I also made soldier sprites for the dwarves that, IMO, fit in better with the civilian dwarves. If you want me to post those, just ask.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

All of them were made from scratch (except the undead and the kobolds... I think they were from the Dystopian Rhetoric tilset)

The two orcs at the bottom aren't used. If you want the text file, I can post that, too.
Oh, and sorry for beating you to it, Fugue. ;D

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: jasonxfri13th on January 22, 2009, 11:31:10 pm

Graphics, hurray!
Now I just need to know how to put them in...
and can I use the graphics with other graphics? (use only the orc ones from you and the mayday ones...)
And can someone tell me how to add races?
I want to add more goblin races and maybe another orc race. (just different names and a little stats so I can have more sieges)
And if I add more goblin/orc races will they use the graphics?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: jasonxfri13th on January 23, 2009, 12:27:46 am

I found out how to add races and all of that...
But can you please add the stuff you put into the graphics.txt?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Fugue on January 23, 2009, 01:54:33 am

Yeah, I'm fiddling with the Graphics text to try and fit them in, but if you have it handy it'd be much easier. :D

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: jasonxfri13th on January 23, 2009, 02:07:10 am

I was trying, then I stopped.
I found this:
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=19094.0
it has orcs...
but I have not gotten it to work yet... it is kind of weird...

Well screw orc graphics...
I got 4 goblin races (goblin family) and I just got these orcs. Sooner or later someone will release one...
the ones I posted above seem to not work... probably not compatible with 40D9

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: jarathor on January 23, 2009, 09:53:53 pm

Alright, here is the whole graphics part - you should be able to just cut the orc cunk and put it in yours.
It's kinda big though.
The orcs are at the bottom.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: jasonxfri13th on January 24, 2009, 12:36:43 am

Thanks!
I'll have to wait for an orc inasion to see if it works...
just to make sure will this work?
I basically added the orc part to the end of graphics_mayday and put the image in mayday (folder) or should i put it in example?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: jasonxfri13th on January 24, 2009, 05:33:33 am

NEVERMIND

IT WORKS!!!

Rysith, you should add it to the first page...

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: jarathor on January 24, 2009, 12:29:22 pm

Glad to hear it. ;D
If I'm not mistaken, there isn't a tutorial for making your own graphics set on the wiki, is there?
I looked for one quite a while ago, and couldn't find one.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: gumball135 on January 30, 2009, 05:31:33 pm

Wow. This sounds great. I'll try it out ASAP.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Raphite1 on February 06, 2009, 05:16:49 pm

This mod looks awesome. In addition to orc sieges, will goblin sieges and megabeasts still come as normal?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on February 06, 2009, 05:36:35 pm

Quote from: Raphite1 on February 06, 2009, 05:16:49 pm

This mod looks awesome. In addition to orc sieges, will goblin sieges and megabeasts still come as normal?

Yep, the mod doesn't touch goblins or megabeasts, so they behave as normal. Orc sieges can prevent goblin sieges, and vice versa, though (you can't get two sieges at the same time, so you'll get sieged by whoever shows up first in a season.).

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Angellus on February 08, 2009, 05:42:37 pm

Hi ^^

It has been a very long time that I have posted here :)
Been a reader mostly.

How can I get this to work and I will have to regen a world not? (I wish for my current fortress to die out first, then have a pauze on DF as I always do after losing a fortress that has had hours and hours of work in it, then regen XD)

Looks like a great mod :D more things to burn ^^

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on February 08, 2009, 11:04:29 pm

Quote from: Angellus on February 08, 2009, 05:42:37 pm

How can I get this to work and I will have to regen a world not? (I wish for my current fortress to die out first, then have a pauze on DF as I always do after losing a fortress that has had hours and hours of work in it, then regen XD)

Looks like a great mod :D more things to burn ^^

To get it to work, just add the orc entity to your entity_default file and the orc creature to your creature_default file. You will have to regen the world.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: RantingRodent on February 08, 2009, 11:20:50 pm

Thoughts?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Kazindir on February 12, 2009, 03:53:35 pm

Just tried this and...argh!
Orcish machinegunners.
We can't withstand firepower of that magnitude!

Made a new fort in a nice new spot. Winter in the first year rolled around and a small group of orcs appeared and laid siege to my 7. Tough fight, won in the end but took 3 nasty red wounded dwarves and that was after the orcs waltzed through a few stone traps.

Fair enough.

Summer of the next year arrives. The elves never actually got any trading done as a herd of skeletal elk scared them off before they arrived at my depot, and I 'd not had much to trade witht he dwarves last autumn. Luckily I didn't need much either and in mid summer a huge horde of migrants showed up

2 weeks later, so did a huge horde of orcs. Lots of crushers and seemed to be lead by 2 "elite snipers", aka wandering minigunners. Between them their arrows blotted out the sun, which was bad as my dwarves were not cave adapted and the arrows were coming towards them. They all died.

It was sort of like this, only with a pair of bow wielding orcs instead. :'(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI42TeuwlMw

:P

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Martin on February 12, 2009, 05:47:32 pm

Now in my 3rd summer and no siege. Humans showed up for the first time, but I've traded as much as I can - a few thousand each with the elves and dwarves the previous two years. Wealth is only around 40K and population 10 (no immigrant fortress, though I got 3 anyway). Will the low pop prevent the sieges?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on February 12, 2009, 06:44:52 pm

Quote from: Martin on February 12, 2009, 05:47:32 pm

Now in my 3rd summer and no siege. Humans showed up for the first time, but I've traded as much as I can - a few thousand each with the elves and dwarves the previous two years. Wealth is only around 40K and population 10 (no immigrant fortress, though I got 3 anyway). Will the low pop prevent the sieges?

Low pop shouldn't prevent sieges, no. Were they present on the embark screen? I've seen some times when orcs die off at the very beginning of worldgen (normally because they pick a fight with a few different civs at a time).

That said, if you are on your first time with the humans, that should be triggering around the same time as the orcs, so I'd wait for winter and see what happens then.

And, to avoid double-posting: New orcs should be coming soon, once I get their language together and test something that may do some combination of making them much more aggressive in world-gen and let me let them talk again (to solve the "unnamed orc" problem). Lanternwebs has been taking up a lot of my time, so Orc development ended up getting put on hold for that. You can, however, see the new orcs in action there, sans language.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Martin on February 12, 2009, 08:21:57 pm

Yeah, they were there - dotted red line, along with intimidator gobbos with no clothing drop. The gobbos are now in my civ screen, but I haven't actually seen them yet. I was turtled up for a few seasons trying to get any kind of defense going so an ambush party probably came and went. I was surprised the humans took so long. I'm not sure how long I'll last:

10 dwarves until kids roll through in a decade and a half
I'm only allowing one of each automatic trap (cage, stone, weapon)
I can have as many dwarven activated traps as I want, though, so I'll be working on a long upright spike/lever hallway (I got glass up and running in the first year), and I have lots of wood and will get a ballista on that hallway soon (and one worth a damn in about 5 years, probably)

Should be challenging...

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Org on February 12, 2009, 08:27:02 pm

Needz moar dakka!

Choppas, sluggas, shootas. That is what this needs.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Jay on February 13, 2009, 10:44:10 am

Quote from: Org on February 12, 2009, 08:27:02 pm

Needz moar dakka!

Choppas, sluggas, shootas. That is what this needs.

Except...
These are orcs with a C, as in Warcraft, not orks with a K, as in Warhammer.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Org on February 13, 2009, 05:31:25 pm

Quote from: jaybud4 on February 13, 2009, 10:44:10 am

Quote from: Org on February 12, 2009, 08:27:02 pm
Needz moar dakka!

Choppas, sluggas, shootas. That is what this needs.

Except...
These are orcs with a C, as in Warcraft, not orks with a K, as in Warhammer 40K.

Fix'd
If we're going to say something about 40k lets get it right.

And yes, I know what you were talking about.IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A JOKE!

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Martin on February 14, 2009, 01:44:23 am

Well, autumn #4 brought a siege... of humans. Oh well, close enough.

The upgraded gobbos are awesome - not a single caravan made it to my depot the last 2 years - they all got cut down. That's a lot of hauling for only 10 dwarves, but other than a few yellow wounds now healed things are holding up. Maybe the orcs will show up yet...

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Jay on February 14, 2009, 01:54:31 pm

Yeah, if you have a whole lot of hostile civs, or even just one that's active in all four seasons, you'll probably not see orcs. Or maybe you'll see orcs but not other ones. This is subject to change as you kill off leaders of the actually-attacking civs as they come.
Only one attacker per season is allowed. There doesn't appear to be any such limit on traders though.
Good thing Toady actually implemented a menu in case there's multiple caravans in your depot...

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Martin on February 15, 2009, 12:28:33 am

Hmm, I never knew any of that. I've gotten gobbo ambushes every season but two in the last 2 years - one was quiet and one was the human siege. Still no orcs on the civ screen, but they were there on embark, so we'll see. The gobbo civ is pretty damn big, as are the two human civs (not sure which just sieged me) so I think it's gonna be a long time before my group of 10 wipes anyone out.

Assuming that one of the human civs wasn't trying to kill me, would having two human civs allow two trade caravans showing up in summer? I don't recall ever having two friendly civs of the same type before to have that opportunity.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: TheMirth on February 15, 2009, 12:31:02 am

Yes, I've had humans and elves share the depot as well as humans and humans. When you go to trade, you're prompted for which civ to trade with at the depot.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Raphite1 on February 16, 2009, 06:08:51 pm

I'm interested in seeing how it goes for you, Martin. When I restart again I'm going to use this mod and have a population cap of 80, but not sure if I'll keep immigration or not.

I've never done a slow-growth fort before, though, so I'm worried about enemies going extinct before the fort finally gets to full strength. Is this a concern for orcs?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: PencilinHand on February 17, 2009, 01:38:34 am

Quote from: jaybud4 on February 14, 2009, 01:54:31 pm

...Only one attacker per season is allowed....

I have seen this statement more than once, and maybe it is true normally but I can tell you that it isn't hard coded into .40d of DF.

I say this because I have on multiple occasions since gening a world with the orc mod had 2 sieges(one from gobos and one from orcs). My gobos are slightly modded by removing the [BABYSNATCHER] and [INTELLIGENT] tags(replaced with [CAN_CIV] and [CAN_LEARN]) and added [NOFEAR].

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: RantingRodent on February 17, 2009, 08:45:42 am

What does everyone think of these sprites for the orc military? Sphr style.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Lormax on February 18, 2009, 08:37:44 am

Those look good. Is there a way I can take them and modify them to be green? I use Mayday and I'd really like to be able to tell them apart at a glance. If so, what would I need? Thanks!

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: jasonxfri13th on February 19, 2009, 12:02:22 am

Quote from: Kazindir on February 12, 2009, 03:53:35 pm

Just tried this and...argh!
Orcish machinegunners.
We can't withstand firepower of that magnitude!

Made a new fort in a nice new spot. Winter in the first year rolled around and a small group of orcs appeared and laid siege to my 7. Tough fight, won in the end but took 3 nasty red wounded dwarves and that was after the orcs waltzed through a few stone traps.

Fair enough.

Summer of the next year arrives. The elves never actually got any trading done as a herd of skeletal elk scared them off before they arrived at my depot, and I 'd not had much to trade witht he dwarves last autumn. Luckily I didn't need much either and in mid summer a huge horde of migrants showed up

2 weeks later, so did a huge horde of orcs. Lots of crushers and seemed to be lead by 2 "elite snipers", aka wandering minigunners. Between them their arrows blotted out the sun, which was bad as my dwarves were not cave adapted and the arrows were coming towards them. They all died.

It was sort of like this, only with a pair of bow wielding orcs instead. :'(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI42TeuwlMw

:P

I never had any real trouble, apart from dwarfs going insane and murdering 2 of my champions...

I have been sieged by Orcs probably around 4-8 times... the last one had about 40 or 50 units. But I have a tower built on a hill and the only way onto the hill is on a drawbridge (hill surrounded by walls) and once you past the draw bridge and 10 cage traps and 8 weapon traps there is a tower with the stairs inside and I put my almost champion crossbowmen up there.
But since I have 4 other goblin races and for some reason they like me even though I steal all ofd their stuff... and I get caravans what seems like every 10 minutes, so they usually take care of all goblin sieges (makes me mad) but the current orc siege took care of the caravan.

Make sure to start training wrestlers right away so you can have legendary guys very fast, and of course make a good defendable entrance right away, then you basiaclly can almost not lose from sieges.
And make a ton of cages so you can have arena battles... I can't wait to see how my captured dwarf (enemy one) does against 1 orc... if he wins he is against 2 orcs... and finally 3. IF he wins I will set him free... although he will probably run back and get killed. And I got a few goblins... and a room with wooden spikes.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: RantingRodent on February 19, 2009, 01:45:16 am

Quote from: Lormax on February 18, 2009, 08:37:44 am

Those look good. Is there a way I can take them and modify them to be green? I use Mayday and I'd really like to be able to tell them apart at a glance. If so, what would I need? Thanks!

Any paint program will do. I personally use Photoshop for everything, since I have it. Everyone tells me it's overkill, but I've been spriting with it for a good 5 years now.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: AncientEnemy on February 19, 2009, 06:35:58 pm

is there a link i'm missing to install this mod or do you just copy the information in the first post into some of the DF txt files? if so which ones?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on February 19, 2009, 07:28:49 pm

Copy the creature and put it in creature_standard.txt, copy the entity and put it in entity_standard.txt

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Arvidsem on February 20, 2009, 01:29:16 am

Also, if nameless Orcs annoy you, you need to create a language file for them. Either make one up (and post it), or do as I did, and copy one of the other language files (goblin's a good choice) and rename it to language_ORC.txt

This will of course require a new world if you already have nameless Orcs.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Digital Hellhound on February 20, 2009, 06:25:28 am

Started a fort beneath a human/elf city. I'm waiting for the Orcs now.

Also, for some reason this place has like a hundred Elves that dont have a profession. Even worse, they keep killing the humans.
I bet they're working with the Orcs, killing all the military before they arrive... I should've started a normal fort but I'm too lazy for that.

(EDIT: This is a picture of the slaughter, if someone knows what's causing it.
(http://f.imagehost.org/0169/Slaughter.jpg) (http://f.imagehost.org/download/0169/Slaughter)

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Flaede on February 20, 2009, 10:51:19 am

They do that.
Wander aroudn the earth in huge groups of +100, splitting up and wandering into towns, all sorts of crazy stuff. if you kill them, the citizens wont mind. Not sure what causes that, but that "just happens". not sure what would happen if you embarked on that, though.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Raphite1 on February 20, 2009, 12:16:34 pm

Just embarked for my first game with this mod, along with some major megabeast buffing. (Second game, technically, but an apocalypse of skeletal giant eagles made the first too short to really count.)
My location is pretty sweet, I'm planning to build outward from a near-vertical cliff with the bulk of my fort extending above a river valley. This means I probably won't have a very extensively developed underground fort in place by the first winter, so I'm worried about losing to a first-year orc siege (if the fire imps in my exposed magma pipe don't get me first). I ditched my anvil to bring a mechanic, two axedwarves, and a set of leather armor for each axedwarf, so I feel confident about surviving a melee siege if I can get a bottleneck in place. I'm worried about orcish archers, though... do they generally come with the first attack?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on February 20, 2009, 12:38:11 pm

Quote from: Arvidsem on February 20, 2009, 01:29:16 am

Also, if nameless Orcs annoy you, you need to create a language file for them. Either make one up (and post it), or do as I did, and copy one of the other language files (goblin's a good choice) and rename it to language_ORC.txt

This will of course require a new world if you already have nameless Orcs.

Giving the Orcs their own language file gives them names? Excellent...

I've got a language for the orcs set up (designed by a semi-professional linguist!), so that's going into Orcs v0.3. Just need a few more tests of the other tweaks before I post that.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Digital Hellhound on February 21, 2009, 03:20:36 am

A vile force of darkness has arrived! Thirteen orcs...
Wrestlers and Spearbearers. They beat up a human Farmer, but they'll get slaughtered soon.

EDIT: Actually, they killed pretty much everybody but I got bored and drafted all my dwarves. They were killed. I succumbed to the invasion, mostly because there's no stone and an aquifer in this town.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: jasonxfri13th on February 22, 2009, 07:06:38 am

It will be funny when the Orcs come and slaughter all of them.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: sonerohi on February 22, 2009, 04:23:41 pm

Ummm. Not getting any orc sieges or ambushes, well into year 2 with 50 dwarves and close to 1mil in wealth. It's only year 7 in worldgen terms, so I know the orcs are still alive. I checked before embark and they can reach me (along with 3 goblin civs, and the elves and humans and dwarves. As a dwarf, it sucks ass when everything in the world can reach you and is at war with you. The only things not attacking me are my own dwarf civs and the humans).

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on February 23, 2009, 10:24:16 am

Quote from: sonerohi on February 22, 2009, 04:23:41 pm

Ummm. Not getting any orc sieges or ambushes, well into year 2 with 50 dwarves and close to 1mil in wealth. It's only year 7 in worldgen terms, so I know the orcs are still alive. I checked before embark and they can reach me (along with 3 goblin civs, and the elves and humans and dwarves. As a dwarf, it sucks ass when everything in the world can reach you and is at war with you. The only things not attacking me are my own dwarf civs and the humans).

Orcs will never ambush.

First: Have you been getting other sieges? Only one siege can happen per season, so that may be interfering.
Second: Remember that orcs are active summer/winter, so if you got your 50 dwarves in summer/autumn, they should come in winter, but wouldn't have come in autumn.
Third: I've seen them dither randomly sometimes. If they can reach you, they will come, though. Your year 7 may actually be interfering with that, since they may not have had a chance to breed and expand, and thus your sieges will be small and late.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Loki on February 24, 2009, 04:05:24 am

Okay, how do I actually put this mod in place? I'm assuming the "entity" part all goes in entity_default, but where does the creature part go? Should I make a new creature_orc file or does it belong on one of the others?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Zaranthan on February 24, 2009, 09:50:12 am

Quote from: Loki on February 24, 2009, 04:05:24 am

Okay, how do I actually put this mod in place? I'm assuming the "entity" part all goes in entity_default, but where does the creature part go? Should I make a new creature_orc file or does it belong on one of the others?

Doesn't really matter. I put it in creature_default with all the other humanoids, but the game reads all the files. Make sure you put the right header. The first line should be the filename, sans extension. The next one should be [OBJECT:CREATURE] so the game knows it's a creature definition file.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Angellus on February 24, 2009, 11:24:47 am

Ok, just lost everything to the first wave of Orks, I'm used to being sieged when I hit 80 dwarves and have my defenses up by that time, now they hit me at 18, so everything died XD

Brilliant mod!

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: jasonxfri13th on February 24, 2009, 12:20:00 pm

That is why you build a draw bridge or at least a door. then you at least have some time to build a few weapons and train some dwarfs. As long as you have a few crossbow dwarfs you should be fine. But by the time they sieged me I had more like 30.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Angellus on February 24, 2009, 02:08:52 pm

Quote from: jasonxfri13th on February 24, 2009, 12:20:00 pm

That is why you build a draw bridge or at least a door. then you at least have some time to build a few weapons and train some dwarfs. As long as you have a few crossbow dwarfs you should be fine. But by the time they sieged me I had more like 30.

I had all that, but the mechanic was gone, so I had no possibility to widraw the drawbridge XD

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: jasonxfri13th on February 24, 2009, 10:30:25 pm

What about a simple door?

And why couldn't you just tell somebody to pull the lever?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: reubend on February 25, 2009, 12:51:32 pm

My orcs are just loitering around the edge of the map. I have a floor hatch covering my stairway, but it's not locked yet so they should be able to path to me. I don't think I've had this problem before; maybe they don't like the arctic.

Also: I think I have the most bad-ass orcish civilization ever. Almost 4 pages of named orcs in The East Curses, including Ago Tosmstongogur, the High Pries/Orc Drunk.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: hothead098 on February 25, 2009, 01:40:23 pm

Quote from: reubend on February 25, 2009, 12:51:32 pm

My orcs are just loitering around the edge of the map. I have a floor hatch covering my stairway, but it's not locked yet so they should be able to path to me. I don't think I've had this problem before; maybe they don't like the arctic.

I am having a similar problem with orcs. I get the sieges just fine (in fact several forts gone first winter because of orcish aggression) however once a few years (two ish?) have passed the orcs simply form writhing masses and never charge. I don’t lock doors, I don’t pull up bridges. Anyone know why this might be?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on February 25, 2009, 02:26:05 pm

Quote from: reubend on February 25, 2009, 12:51:32 pm

My orcs are just loitering around the edge of the map. I have a floor hatch covering my stairway, but it's not locked yet so they should be able to path to me. I don't think I've had this problem before; maybe they don't like the arctic.

Also: I think I have the most bad-ass orcish civilization ever. Almost 4 pages of named orcs in The East Curses, including Ago Tosmstongogur, the High Pries/Orc Drunk.

I've seen this behavior too, and I suspect that it's an interaction between [LOOSE_CLUSTERS] and large map sizes. Lanternwebs has issues where orcs coming on the far side won't move off the map edge and I have to go chase them down. The ones that enter on the near side work fine, though. How large is your embark area, and how far from your fortress are they coming in? Do they all fail to path, or just some of them? Another possible culprit is pathing across biomes, but that makes less sense to me.

[LOOSE_CLUSTERS] was put in to prevent an issue where if a single orc ended up with a crippled leg due to crossbow fire, the remaining orcs would stay close to the injured orc rather than continuing (or fleeing, because of [NO_FEAR], and turn into pincushions. The next version will probably remove [LOOSE_CLUSTERS] in favor of a different solution.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Xanares on February 25, 2009, 02:29:35 pm

Well, at least your orcs are violent.. mine arrived first winter with two merchants, who ended up fleeing because of a couple of fire imps and troglodytes.. pathetic.

Admitted I have not used entirely the same setup as orig. poster.. and have minotaurs in the world as civ too.
For instance I added SIEGER..

We're not at war with the orcs.. (with Minotaurs tho.. still waiting for them, as I am very close to them on the map).. does that interfere with it?

I enclose my two mod file entries for anyone interested in checking them out / have a shot at the problem (?).

Maybe they are incoming soon.. shall see.

Entity:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Creature:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

EDIT: on the passive orcs topic, I've recently had dragons hanging in the air close to the map-border on a bit larger than usual map.. have to lure them away or face them there.. pretty annoying. It's like your worst uncle coming for tea, but staying outside the fence. Do you ignore him or bring him the friggin tea?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: reubend on February 25, 2009, 03:12:29 pm

I'm only a 3 by 3, my fortress in the middle. I got attacked again though, just half a year later and led by a Hammerlord and a Pikemaster. I've got a wall up now, too, so I can have a little bit of the outside to work with. Hopefully in another year or so I'll be able to fight them (on my terms, of course, none of this charging out to meet them).

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: sonerohi on February 25, 2009, 04:20:04 pm

Figured out what the problem was. Kobold ambush apparently blocked up the channels of attack long enough for an orc and two goblin sieges to be queed up. A patrolling soldier found and killed the ambush, the second they all die I get the siege message. My catapult battery (26 catapults with 36 operators!) smashed them pretty easily, and once the last orc died the goblin siege showed up. Killed all them, the last one shows up. I took awhile with the orc siege so a season might've passed in there, but it was two seasons at most.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on February 25, 2009, 05:12:07 pm

Quote from: Xanares on February 25, 2009, 02:29:35 pm

Well, at least your orcs are violent.. mine arrived first winter with two merchants, who ended up fleeing because of a couple of fire imps and troglodytes.. pathetic.

Admitted I have not used entirely the same setup as orig. poster.. and have minotaurs in the world as civ too.
For instance I added SIEGER..

We're not at war with the orcs.. (with Minotaurs tho.. still waiting for them, as I am very close to them on the map).. does that interfere with it?

I enclose my two mod file entries for anyone interested in checking them out / have a shot at the problem (?).

Maybe they are incoming soon.. shall see.

Entity:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
[ENTITY:HORDE]
   [CREATURE:ORC]
   [trANSLATION:ORC]
   [DIGGER:ITEM_WEAPON_PICK]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_WHIP]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_BATTLE]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_HAMMER_WAR]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_SHORT]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SPEAR]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MACE]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_BOW]
      [AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_ARROWS]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_PIKE]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_HALBERD]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_2H]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_LONG]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MAUL]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_GREAT]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_DAGGER_LARGE]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SCOURGE]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_FLAIL]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MORNINGSTAR]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SCIMITAR]
   [ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_PLATEMAIL:COMMON]
   [ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_CHAINMAIL:UNCOMMON]
   [ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_LEATHER:COMMON]
   [HELM:ITEM_HELM_HELM:COMMON]
   [HELM:ITEM_HELM_MASK:UNCOMMON]
   [GLOVES:ITEM_GLOVES_GAUNTLETS:COMMON]
   [SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_BOOTS:COMMON]
   [SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_BOOTS_LOW:COMMON]
   [PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_GREAVES:COMMON]
   [PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_LEGGINGS:COMMON]
   [PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_LOINCLOTH:COMMON]
   [SHIELD:ITEM_SHIELD_SHIELD]
   [SHIELD:ITEM_SHIELD_BUCKLER]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_BERSERKER]
   [ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_RINGMAIL:COMMON]
   [HELM:ITEM_HELM_HELM_HORNED:COMMON]
   [SHIELD:ITEM_SHIELD_SHIELD_TOWER]
   [SIEGEAMMO:ITEM_SIEGEAMMO_BALLISTA]
   [TOY:ITEM_TOY_AXE]
   [trAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_GIANTAXEBLADE]
   [trAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_ENORMOUSCORKSCREW]
   [trAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_SPIKEDBALL]
   [trAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_LARGESERRATEDDISC]
   [trAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_MENACINGSPIKE]
   [INSTRUMENT:ITEM_INSTRUMENT_DRUM]
   [CLOTHING]
   [CURRENCY:COPPER:1]
   [CURRENCY:SILVER:5]
   [CURRENCY:GOLD:15]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:WAR:NAME_WAR]
   [SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:WAR:VIOLENT]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:BATTLE:NAME_BATTLE]
   [SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:BATTLE:VIOLENT]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:SIEGE:NAME_SIEGE]
   [SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:SIEGE:VIOLENT]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:UGLY]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:UNTOWARD]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:ROAD:NAME_ROAD]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:TUNNEL:NAME_TUNNEL]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:BRIDGE:NAME_BRIDGE]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:WALL:NAME_WALL]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:REMAINING:EVIL]
   [CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:DOMESTIC]
   [CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:FLOWERY]
   [CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:HOLY]
   [CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:PEACE]
   [CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:NEGATOR]
   [CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:GOOD]
   [CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:ARTIFICE]
   [METAL_PREF]
   [USE_EVIL_ANIMALS]
   [USE_EVIL_PLANTS]
   [USE_EVIL_WOOD]
   [USE_ANIMAL_PRODUCTS]
   [USE_MISC_PROCESSED_WOOD_PRODUCTS]
   [EQUIPMENT_IMPROVEMENTS]
   [ABUSE_BODIES]
   [SIEGER]
   [SPHERE_ALIGNMENT:WAR:512]
   [SPHERE_ALIGNMENT:CHAOS:512]
   [ART_FACET_MODIFIER:GOOD:0]
   [ART_FACET_MODIFIER:EVIL:512]
   [ITEM_IMPROVEMENT_MODIFIER:RINGS_HANGING:128]
   [ITEM_IMPROVEMENT_MODIFIER:BANDS:64]
   [ITEM_IMPROVEMENT_MODIFIER:SPIKES:384]
   [FRIENDLY_COLOR:5:0:1]
   [DEFAULT_SITE_TYPE:DARK_FORTRESS]
   [liKES_SITE:DARK_FORTRESS]
   [TOLERATES_SITE:DARK_FORTRESS]
   [TOLERATES_SITE:CAVE]
   [TOLERATES_SITE:CAVE_DETAILED]
   [TOLERATES_SITE:CITY]
   [CAN_HAVE_MILITARY_SITE_LEADER]
   [START_BIOME:ANY_GRASSLAND]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_WETLAND:1]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_DESERT:1]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_FOREST:2]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_OCEAN:1]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_LAKE:2]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:MOUNTAIN:2]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_GRASSLAND:3]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_SAVANNA:2]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_SHRUBLAND:1]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_RIVER:1]
   [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POPULATION:1]
   [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PRODUCTION:2]
   [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE:1]
   [ACTIVE_SEASON:SUMMER]
   [ACTIVE_SEASON:WINTER]
   [MAX_STARTING_CIV_NUMBER:100]
   [START_GROUP_NUMBER:10]
   [MAX_POP_NUMBER:10000]
   [MAX_SITE_POP_NUMBER:1000]
   [RELIGION:PANTHEON]
   [RELIGION_SPHERE:CHAOS]
   [RELIGION_SPHERE:WAR]
   [RELIGION_SPHERE:BLIGHT]
   [RELIGION_SPHERE:DARKNESS]
   [RELIGION_SPHERE:DEATH]
   [RELIGION_SPHERE:FIRE]
   [RELIGION_SPHERE:STORMS]
   [RELIGION_SPHERE:VOLCANOS]
   [RELIGION_SPHERE:VICTORY]
   [RELIGION_SPHERE:STRENGTH]
   [UNDEAD_CANDIDATE]
   [BEAST_HUNTER]
   [SCOUT]
   [OUTDOOR_FARMING]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:MINER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:CARPENTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:BOWYER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:WOODCUTTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ENGRAVER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:MASON]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ANIMAL_CARETAKER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ANIMAL_TRAINER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:HUNTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:TRAPPER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ANIMAL_DISSECTOR]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:FURNACE_OPERATOR]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:WEAPONSMITH]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ARMORER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:BLACKSMITH]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:METALCRAFTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:GEM_CUTTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:GEM_SETTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:WOODCRAFTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:STONECRAFTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:LEATHERWORKER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:BONE_CARVER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:WEAVER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:GLASSMAKER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:FISHERMAN]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:FISH_DISSECTOR]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:FISH_CLEANER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:COOK]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:BUTCHER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:TANNER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:DYER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:HERBALIST]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:BREWER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:LYE_MAKER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:WOOD_BURNER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:MECHANIC]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:SIEGE_ENGINEER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:SIEGE_OPERATOR]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:PUMP_OPERATOR]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ARCHITECT]
   [WORLD_CONSTRUCTION:BRIDGE]
   [ETHIC:KILL_ENTITY_MEMBER:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:KILL_NEUTRAL:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:KILL_ENEMY:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:KILL_ANIMAL:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:KILL_PLANT:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:TORTURE_AS_EXAMPLE:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_INFORMATION:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_FUN:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:TORTURE_ANIMALS:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:TREASON:PUNISH_CAPITAL]
   [ETHIC:OATH_BREAKING:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:LYING:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:VANDALISM:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:TRESPASSING:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:THEFT:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:ASSAULT:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:SLAVERY:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_OTHER:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAME_RACE:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAPIENT:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_ANIMAL:ACCEPTABLE]

Creature:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
[CREATURE:ORC]
   [NAME:orc:orcs:orcish]
   [CHILDNAME:lilwun:lilwuns]
   [TILE:'O'][COLOR:2:7:0]
   [GLOWTILE:'"'][GLOWCOLOR:4:0:1]
   [GENPOWER:2]
   [trANCES]
   [EVIL]
   [NOFEAR]
   [INTELLIGENT]
   [liKES_FIGHTING]
   [LOOSE_CLUSTERS]
   [CANOPENDOORS]
   [BONECARN]
   [PREFSTRING:tusks]
   [PREFSTRING:green skin]
   [PREFSTRING:savagery]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2TUSKS:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
   [ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:3:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
   [ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:1:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
   [CHILD:3][BABY:1][liTTERSIZE:6:10]
   [SIZE:8]
   [DAMBLOCK:2]
   [FAT:3]
   [EQUIPS]
   [NOCTURNAL]
   [STANDARD_FLESH]
   [BLOODTYPE:0]
   [LAYERING:20]
   [SWIMS_LEARNED][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
   [HIGH_PRIEST_NAME:wizwozza:wizwozzas]
   [PRIEST_NAME:wozza:wozzas]
   [CHAMPION_NAME:slasha:slashas]
   [MINER_NAME:holemakur:holemakurs]
   [WOODCUTTER_NAME:wuudclomper:wuudclompers]
   [WOODWORKER_NAME:wuudwurka:wuudwurkas]
   [CARPENTER_NAME:wuudmakur:wuudmakurs]
   [STONEWORKER_NAME:stonewurka:stonewurkas]
   [MASON_NAME:stonemakur:stonemakurs]
   [ENGRAVER_NAME:pikturmakur:pikturmakurs]
   [BOWYER_NAME:bowmakur:bowmakurs]
   [CRAFTSMAN_NAME:makur:makurs]
   [FISHERMAN_NAME:fisherorc:fisherorcs]
   [HAMMERMAN_NAME:hammerorc:hammerorcs]
   [SPEARMAN_NAME:spearorc:spearorcs]
   [BOWMAN_NAME:marksorc:marksorcs]
   [AXEMAN_NAME:axeorc:axeorcs]
   [SWORDSMAN_NAME:swordsorc:swordsorcs]
   [MACEMAN_NAME:maceorc:maceorcs]
   [PIKEMAN_NAME:pikeorc:pikeorcs]
   [HOMEOTHERM:10067]
   [SWIMS_LEARNED][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
   [PERSONALITY:ANGER:25:75:100]
   [PERSONALITY:IMMODERATION:50:75:100]
   [PERSONALITY:EXCITEMENT_SEEKING:0:60:100]
   [PERSONALITY:CHEERFULNESS:0:40:90]
   [PERSONALITY:ALTRUISM:0:25:50]
   [PERSONALITY:MODESTY:0:40:90]
   [PERSONALITY:SYMPATHY:0:25:50]

EDIT: on the passive orcs topic, I've recently had dragons hanging in the air close to the map-border on a bit larger than usual map.. have to lure them away or face them there.. pretty annoying. It's like your worst uncle coming for tea, but staying outside the fence. Do you ignore him or bring him the friggin tea?

You've added [INTELLIGENT], which gives them [CAN_SPEAK] allows them to be at peace with you. Unfortunately, there isn't really a good way to force them to be always at war with everyone except for not letting them speak. [SIEGER] just makes them light a campfire before attacking you, it doesn't actually force them to siege. I think that many of your custom profession names won't apply either, since I think that they only apply to the _MAN professions.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Xanares on February 25, 2009, 05:17:08 pm

Quote from: Rysith on February 25, 2009, 05:12:07 pm

You've added [INTELLIGENT], which gives them [CAN_SPEAK] allows them to be at peace with you. Unfortunately, there isn't really a good way to force them to be always at war with everyone except for not letting them speak. [SIEGER] just makes them light a campfire before attacking you, it doesn't actually force them to siege. I think that many of your custom profession names won't apply either, since I think that they only apply to the _MAN professions.

Thanks Rysith - just noticed this strange error in another thread too. Will try that out right away.

You're right about the professions sadly. Ah well no biggie.. off to the battle!

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Jay on February 25, 2009, 05:32:06 pm

Absolutely correct.
Only way to guarantee war is to remove their ability to talk, which gives them the inability to have names before killing something, resulting in the nameless orc problem.

Has anyone tried [UTTERANCES] yet?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: hothead098 on February 25, 2009, 09:13:35 pm

Quote from: Rysith on February 25, 2009, 02:26:05 pm

I've seen this behavior too, and I suspect that it's an interaction between [LOOSE_CLUSTERS] and large map sizes. Lanternwebs has issues where orcs coming on the far side won't move off the map edge and I have to go chase them down. The ones that enter on the near side work fine, though. How large is your embark area, and how far from your fortress are they coming in? Do they all fail to path, or just some of them? Another possible culprit is pathing across biomes, but that makes less sense to me.

[LOOSE_CLUSTERS] was put in to prevent an issue where if a single orc ended up with a crippled leg due to crossbow fire, the remaining orcs would stay close to the injured orc rather than continuing (or fleeing, because of [NO_FEAR], and turn into pincushions. The next version will probably remove [LOOSE_CLUSTERS] in favor of a different solution.

I normally play a 4 by 4 map, however you may have something on the biome restriction, I shall have to test it. Could it have to do with massively complex maze like fort design? I don’t know why that would effect anything other than initial pathing logic but you never know.

edit-

It seems the biome idea is semi-accurate, they will cross of targets are readily available. However if no target is near they simply bunch in the biome they spawn in, the real question of coarse is how to FIX this problem.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Arvidsem on February 25, 2009, 10:59:09 pm

Quote from: jaybud4 on February 25, 2009, 05:32:06 pm

Absolutely correct.
Only way to guarantee war is to remove their ability to talk, which gives them the inability to have names before killing something, resulting in the nameless orc problem.

Has anyone tried [UTTERANCES] yet?

Yeah, the other day I thought that I had the nameless orc issue solved with the language file, my Orcs in legends mode had names. But I when they finally showed up after regenning the world, they had no names. I'll try [UTTERANCES] in the morning and report back.

[UTTERANCES] does not give the orcs names. The only thing I've found that does is CAN SPEAK/INTELLIGENT. Which makes them traders.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Tellemurius on February 26, 2009, 03:22:53 pm

hey man would u mind if i add the orcs to my hobbit mod?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Jay on February 26, 2009, 05:05:45 pm

Quote from: Arvidsem on February 25, 2009, 10:59:09 pm

[UTTERANCES] does not give the orcs names. The only thing I've found that does is CAN SPEAK/INTELLIGENT. Which makes them traders.

The hell?
[UTTERANCES] makes their language into an indecipherable mass of gibberish, a la kobolds.
Since we don't get kobold traders in vanilla, how does that work?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on February 26, 2009, 05:55:39 pm

Quote from: jaybud4 on February 26, 2009, 05:05:45 pm

Quote from: Arvidsem on February 25, 2009, 10:59:09 pm
[UTTERANCES] does not give the orcs names. The only thing I've found that does is CAN SPEAK/INTELLIGENT. Which makes them traders.
The hell?
[UTTERANCES] makes their language into an indecipherable mass of gibberish, a la kobolds.
Since we don't get kobold traders in vanilla, how does that work?

Orcs are actually reasonably peaceful if you give them a chance to speak, since the worldgen war system needs some work. Not because they actually are peaceful, just because everyone is so tolerant during world gen. Kobolds aren't traders because of [ITEM_THIEF], but that would interfere with orc sieges. Similarly, the only reason that goblins always attack you is [BABYSNATCHER], which also affects siege behavior.

Next version will attempt to fix that by modding the orcish personalities, though I've been busy with Lanternwebs and thus haven't had much of a chance to work on it.

Quote from: hothead098 on February 25, 2009, 09:13:35 pm

It seems the biome idea is semi-accurate, they will cross of targets are readily available. However if no target is near they simply bunch in the biome they spawn in, the real question of coarse is how to FIX this problem.

That might be more of an issue within DF itself, though since I've never seen goblins do that removing loose clusters might fix it by itself (and, of course, result in a bug report to Toady). I've seen Orcs not path with clear paths to dwarves from across a 5x5 spanning a biome, while others that spawned in the same biome as my fortress from similar distances pathed happily, which is why I brought it up. I've never seen goblins do that, though.

Quote from: bloodsheder on February 26, 2009, 03:22:53 pm

hey man would u mind if i add the orcs to my hobbit mod?

Not at all, just give credit.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Shakma on February 27, 2009, 08:32:15 am

I've seen both goblins and elfs sit and not advance during sieges as well as some other modded races. I think it may have something to do with the all dwarves inside order. One time, as soon as I'd turn the order off the siegers would advance and as soon as I turned it on they'd run back to their starting points.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Xanares on February 27, 2009, 02:59:06 pm

got wiped! ;D

In early summer of 589 is began and in late summer it ended.

16 orcs, 8 losses
7 dwarves, all lost

They lingered between the edge of the map and the entrance, but didn't attack before I lured them with a soldier. Unfortunately two picked that time to drink and two slept soundly on the ground. I had made soldiers out of 6 and trained them in wrestling (one axe).. have to work hard on that coordination effort hehe.

Once there was only my miner left the orcs, after yet another linger to the map-edge, continued inside to finally wipe the floor with pets and miner. Sadly he was about to make a magma-channel to protect himself, when he just needed that drink so badly.

Time to reclaim!

ps: removed bows from both my orc and minotaur civs.. dunno if that is making the difference, but in legends a dwarven fortress has repeatedly defended against 3-400 minotaurs and slaughtered all of them. They have been outnumbered 4:1.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: stoned funeral on February 27, 2009, 05:38:31 pm

How can I mod these guys to make them hit just as hard, but later? So that it's more of a progression from kobolds goblins then orcs, rather than ORCORCORC-die.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on February 27, 2009, 06:08:09 pm

Quote from: stoned funeral on February 27, 2009, 05:38:31 pm

How can I mod these guys to make them hit just as hard, but later? So that it's more of a progression from kobolds goblins then orcs, rather than ORCORCORC-die.

Change the [PROGRESSTRIGGER] tags, which range from 1 (right at the beginning) to 5 (you've got a king and nobles and such). To have them show up after goblins, you'll need progress 4 or so.

Don't worry, I'm working on a replacement for kobolds, too. Should goblins::orcs as kobolds::new things ;D

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: stoned funeral on February 27, 2009, 06:24:39 pm

Thanks for the quick reply, I'll give it a go.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Raphite1 on February 27, 2009, 08:17:32 pm

I got sieged by orcs my second winter, which is the time I was expecting since my fortress value was abysmal the first year. However, I'm now in my fourth or fifth summer, and the orcs haven't shown up since. I've gotten two or three goblin ambushes in the meantime. The orcs still show up on my civ screen.

I do have some extreme cliffs on my map, and a heavily-forested biome splitting the primary biome down the middle, but it seems that these factors would just affect pathing, not whether the orcs arrive at all.

Any ideas?

Edit:
- Is it possible that a still-concealed goblin ambush is somewhere on my map, preventing orc sieges?
- I also modded in a custom megabeast with [AMBUSHPREDATOR]. Could I have one on my map, likewise preventing orc siege? Christ, I don't know whether to hope that this is the case, or fear the possibility.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on February 27, 2009, 08:28:22 pm

Quote from: Raphite1 on February 27, 2009, 08:17:32 pm

- Is it possible that a still-concealed goblin ambush is somewhere on my map, preventing orc sieges?
- I also modded in a custom megabeast with [AMBUSHPREDATOR]. Could I have one on my map, likewise preventing orc siege? Christ, I don't know whether to hope that this is the case, or fear the possibility.

Both of those are possibilities, since I believe that ambushes and megabeasts prevent sieges (and vice versa). To check, have your military do a lap around the map, or something like that.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Raphite1 on February 28, 2009, 12:06:09 pm

I ran a squad out to all four corners a couple of times, and another year and a half has passed, still nothing. Even the goblins seem to have stopped coming, just a kobold thief popping up now and again. Strange.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Xanares on March 03, 2009, 10:25:12 am

I am getting rid of LOOSE_CLUSTERS.. something seems to be wrong. Had an orc siege from first summer and one full years later they are still hanging out in the bottom left corner playing cards and having tea.

Luring them away has failed sofar. I got one of them away, killed him, nothing happened. Sent in a wardog, they killed it and back to the cards. They run around in a circular chaos pattern surrounding their leader (red orc mauler) - which also means any attempt of luring them has to include him, or they will go back to the corner. That is hard as some of them are faster then him..

I was figuring they would leave after a season.. then a couple of seasons, but no.
Next test is trying to dig a passage just for them to enter.. keeping the drawbridge open does nothing but looks good and keeps the wind fresh in the immediate mines.

Any other suggestions apart from kamikazing my seven sons of Armok?

EDIT! (one year not two).. and suddenly they magically dissappear.. not even a msg or flowers as a goodbye.. hehe. I will see if next time is any different.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on March 03, 2009, 02:11:30 pm

hah these are awsome! i have a fort and it was going nice. i had forgotten about the orcs even and had just gotten a immagration bringing me up to about 30 or so dwarfs. then i get sieged and tried to dig a channel for safety but on a 2x2 map you get places fast and the orcs got to my fort so i drafted everyone and now have only about 10 left after the chopperz and probably only survived because there was a ring of cage traps to keep the camels out.

and ouch I counted the cages and realized i had less captured then i had still there so low and be hold i now have abandoned because there where still some left and now there are only 4 dwarfs and all of them are injured and resting.

and i have reclaimed it and the orcs that where in the cages are friendly!!! they are just wandering around being friendly like!!! what the *insert bad words*.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Toady Two on March 04, 2009, 10:28:12 am

Very enjoyable mod but for some reason I can't get the orc graphics to work with Mike Maydays tile set. Please tell me what I'm doing wrong. I copied the.bmp to the mayday file in graphics and then entered this in mayday_graphics.txt

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

What is the proper [PAGE_DIM:] you are using to get them to work?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: jasonxfri13th on March 04, 2009, 11:11:54 am

Quote from: Toady Two on March 04, 2009, 10:28:12 am

Very enjoyable mod but for some reason I can't get the orc graphics to work with Mike Maydays tile set. Please tell me what I'm doing wrong. I copied the.bmp to the mayday file in graphics and then entered this in mayday_graphics.txt
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
[TILE_PAGE:PEOPLES]
   [FILE:mayday/peoples.bmp]
   [TILE_DIM:16:16]
   [PAGE_DIM:31:10]

[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:ORC]

[DEFAULT:PEOPLES:0:23:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[CHILD:PEOPLES:2:23:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[DRUNK:PEOPLES:1:23:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[STANDARD:PEOPLES:0:23:AS_IS:DEFAULT]

[AXEMAN:PEOPLES:0:24:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[HAMMERMAN:PEOPLES:2:24:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[MACEMAN:PEOPLES:3:24:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[SWORDSMAN:PEOPLES:1:24:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[SPEARMAN:PEOPLES:4:24:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[WRESTLER:PEOPLES:6:24:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[BOWMAN:PEOPLES:5:24:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[PIKEMAN:PEOPLES:4:24:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[LASHER:PEOPLES:7:24:AS_IS:DEFAULT]

[MASTER_AXEMAN:PEOPLES:0:25:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[MASTER_HAMMERMAN:PEOPLES:2:25:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[MASTER_MACEMAN:PEOPLES:3:25:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[MASTER_SWORDSMAN:PEOPLES:1:25:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[MASTER_SPEARMAN:PEOPLES:4:25:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[MASTER_WRESTLER:PEOPLES:6:25:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[MASTER_BOWMAN:PEOPLES:5:25:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[MASTER_PIKEMAN:PEOPLES:4:25:AS_IS:DEFAULT]
[MASTER_LASHER:PEOPLES:7:25:AS_IS:DEFAULT]

What is the proper [PAGE_DIM:] you are using to get them to work?

Go to page 9, at the bottom you can see how my txt file looks like and it works like that for me. And I have the mayday pack.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Sinergistic on March 04, 2009, 08:50:23 pm

Added [UTTERANCES] and [CAN_SPEAK] to orcs, genned a world, embarked on an orc dark fortress. They where all friendly.
I couldn't trade with them, though.
:(

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: (name here) on March 04, 2009, 09:05:52 pm

I'm having fun with the Deathquest class orcs. Bigger, trapavoid.

Also, Deathquest led to me noticing that they (and probably everything else ever) seem to have trouble shooting up Z-levels sometimes.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: heathkit on March 05, 2009, 03:38:51 am

Grrr, the first page of this thread isn't loading. Could someone repost the orc raws?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: kefkakrazy on March 05, 2009, 05:56:52 am

Maybe there should be a wiki page for this? It's kinda localized to the DF forums but it feels like mention of orcs has become ubiquitous enough to merit at least a "Hey noobs, this is what Orcs are, run in fear!" up there.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Org on March 05, 2009, 07:14:11 am

I have some hard orks. Gave them trance, o stun or nausea, stronger attacks, trap avoid....and other things

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Xanares on March 05, 2009, 09:19:36 am

Har! This is fun.

I believe my positioning of the fortress have enraged the orcs a slight bit. You see, it is rather much of an outpost in the middle of orc land.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The fortress is situated right on the volcano you see a bit to the left of the middle.
At least 10 of the 13 dark fortresses around me are orcs. I dont think there was war-status on embark..

Ok, so the timeline is something like this:
- first summer - 15 orcs siege for a year (killed one)
- first winter - found underground pool (only source of water)
- second summer - another orc siege replaces the other one - this time 3 squads and 1 local leader (killed all of them in traps and floods)
- second winter - another siege with 3 squads and 3 local leaders (killed or trapped 1/3 in the fortress maze, rest left after a season)
- third summer - finally have the drawbridge down for more than a day - sees a chance to gather some wood, ambushed by two squads of goblins, carpenter/woodcutter killled (first casuality besides a wardog) and mason/leader ends up with a brain-damage
- third autumn - first caravan and liason makes it to the fortress!! (finally got an anvil)
- third winter - minotaurs siege with one squad, I just close them out until they leave
- fourth summer - first migration wave arrives (8 suicidal dwarves)

War status:
fallen:
17 orc lashers
9 orc lancers
1 orc mace lord
2 orc swordmasters
1 named orc axe lord (local leader)
6 orc carvers (with berserker axes, size 7)
38 orc wrestlers
= 74 orcs

trapped:
5 orc lashers
1 named orc sword master
8 orc carvers
8 orc wrestlers
1 named orc hammer lord
= 23 orcs

Orc civ screen:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Looking forward to winter!

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Jay on March 05, 2009, 05:00:14 pm

Quote from: Sinergistic on March 04, 2009, 08:50:23 pm

Added [UTTERANCES] and [CAN_SPEAK] to orcs, genned a world, embarked on an orc dark fortress. They where all friendly.
I couldn't trade with them, though.
:(

I was thinking just UTTERANCES, not CAN_SPEAK, as we know CAN_SPEAK to be the issue.
It'd be interesting to try...
Sure, game mechanics may make it seem like it'd error out or something, but experimentation is the basis of DF modding.
I'd do it myself, but I'm in the middle of a long-run ruleset fortress (fifty years of gametime, no other worlds allowed in meantime)
..Fifty years of constant sieges.
Should be fun.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: kefkakrazy on March 05, 2009, 07:04:43 pm

Congratulations. Orcs are now officially the first thing to truly destroy a fortress of mine. I have abandoned before when a siege did enough damage to make continuing difficult/impossible/not-interesting, but never before have I had the invaders actually boil through the gates, hunt down every last dwarf, and slaughter them.

Armok bless you and keep you.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Arvidsem on March 05, 2009, 07:34:12 pm

[UTTERANCES] without [CAN_SPEAK] has no affect, tried that one last week. The only way currently to have a speaking race (which will therefore have names) that will attack you always is using babysnatcher or thief (whatever the kobold tag is). And that kills the early sieges that make Orcs so ridiculously painful.

Quote from: jaybud4 on March 05, 2009, 05:00:14 pm

I was thinking just UTTERANCES, not CAN_SPEAK, as we know CAN_SPEAK to be the issue.
It'd be interesting to try...
Sure, game mechanics may make it seem like it'd error out or something, but experimentation is the basis of DF modding.
I'd do it myself, but I'm in the middle of a long-run ruleset fortress (fifty years of gametime, no other worlds allowed in meantime)
..Fifty years of constant sieges.
Should be fun.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Xanares on March 06, 2009, 12:53:11 pm

Argh, the fortress is gone! ;D

Someone let in a master sword orc, who killed 17 dwarves by herself. The attack had 80 orcs with 4 or 5 named.

I think I need to up my defences.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on March 07, 2009, 03:16:33 am

Version 0.3 released, with lots of new iron-flavored goodness!

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Vattic on March 07, 2009, 04:01:55 am

I've been looking forward to this update, having an Orcish language is a nice addition.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Sinergistic on March 07, 2009, 04:15:22 am

Quote from: Rysith

To have non-speaking orcs with names in fortress mode, generate the world and then add the [CAN_SPEAK] tag to their entity file

So... obvious. (and you mean their creature file, right?)

And in future releases, you might consider making your unique names more 'other-mod' friendly. IE [CREATURE:DIRE_WOLF_ORCM] instead of [CREATURE:DIRE_WOLF]

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: JujuBubu on March 07, 2009, 06:22:27 pm

They just came to trade ? WTF ?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Sinergistic on March 07, 2009, 08:33:40 pm

Quote from: JujuBubu on March 07, 2009, 06:22:27 pm

They just came to trade ? WTF ?

Did you gen the world with can_speak modded out?

Edit: Genned a world with the [CAN_SPEAK] removed, added it back in before embarking, orcs came to trade. Currently genning another world with [CAN_SPEAK] removed, will embark and then add it back in.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Xanares on March 08, 2009, 02:16:08 pm

Logically, I would put CAN_SPEAK in before world gen then take it out for Embark. Anyone tried that?

Some comments on the 0.3 version to my favorite orc mod maker:
a) entity should be ENTITY:HORDE iso. ENTITY:HOARD no? Hoard would suit a dragon civ hehe.

b) I get an error on CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:ARTIFICE, so it should be removed methinks

c) why not add [CAN_HAVE_MILITARY_LEADER] ? just me maybe, but I always see orcs having their best fighter as their leader.. with the high priests / drunks are their quickly disposable advisors

d) I tried using [MAX_SITE_POP_NUMBER:250] too, but never saw pop over 205 for any race.. must be some hardcoded limit in there somewhere

e) Noted your changes to ethics - I guess you saw a huge number of internal killings like me hehe. Not sure it is so orcish in my oppion though... but if it helps their pop, it might be cool enough

f) [NAME:giant wolf spider:giant wolf spiders:giant wolf spider] - should be "wood"

g) 4:8 attack, DAMBLOCK: 4 and [WEBIMMUNE] sounds a bit like overkill to me, but interested in hearing how it works out

h) PERSONALITY edits are *thumbs up*

i) holy shit War Elephants are deadly ;D

Please take these as comments and not critique, well done mate.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: inaluct on March 08, 2009, 02:27:11 pm

This mod is insane. I tip my penguin hat to all of you who are responsible for it.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on March 08, 2009, 05:37:36 pm

Quote from: Xanares on March 08, 2009, 02:16:08 pm

Logically, I would put CAN_SPEAK in before world gen then take it out for Embark. Anyone tried that?

Some comments on the 0.3 version to my favorite orc mod maker:
a) entity should be ENTITY:HORDE iso. ENTITY:HOARD no? Hoard would suit a dragon civ hehe.

Probably. I've never bothered to change it, since the game doesn't care.

Quote

c) why not add [CAN_HAVE_MILITARY_LEADER] ? just me maybe, but I always see orcs having their best fighter as their leader.. with the high priests / drunks are their quickly disposable advisors

They have military site leaders, but I didn't want the full civ's leader to ever show up, since that seems to make them stop sending attacks if they die

Quote

e) Noted your changes to ethics - I guess you saw a huge number of internal killings like me hehe. Not sure it is so orcish in my oppion though... but if it helps their pop, it might be cool enough

It definitely helps pop, and in my mind it means that they are cooperative with each other, and want to burn the rest of the world. It fits with my image of them as savage barbarians bent on tearing down everyone else.

Quote

f) [NAME:giant wolf spider:giant wolf spiders:giant wolf spider] - should be "wood"

That was a last-minute change (from Wood spiders to Wolf spiders), so I must have missed that.

Quote

g) 4:8 attack, DAMBLOCK: 4 and [WEBIMMUNE] sounds a bit like overkill to me, but interested in hearing how it works out

The 4-8 attack and DAMBLOCK is to help out the Orcish wrestlers (and make legendary dwarven wrestlers less effective). Weapon-wielding orcs don't use the damage, and 4 isn't that much compared to actual armor (no-quality iron chain, which is what they normally use, is the equivalent of DAMBLOCK:5. So it's kind of like they are wearing exceptional chain rather than normal chain. I've always found that no-quality iron doesn't stand up well to typical dwarven equipment, so I'm trying to artificially give them better stuff.

The [WEBIMMUNE] was to deal with issues where they showed up riding spiders and then were dismounted by the inevitable webbing, which made the idea of orcs on giant spiders much less threatening than it should be. Unless you've got pet spiders, or orcs get ambushed by GCS/GWS, it shouldn't affect anything else.

Quote

i) holy shit War Elephants are deadly ;D

Well, beak dogs are wusses anyway. They needed something that they could really storm the castle walls with. I was considering adding in perytons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peryton), but there are some issues with flying mounts.

My sequence with adding/removing [CAN_SPEAK] was

1) Remove CAN_SPEAK
2) Start DF, gen world, embark, quit DF
3) add CAN_SPEAK

The logic being that they would be at war with you from the world gen, but would be speaking by the time that they sieged you (and thus get names). Since they shouldn't be able to make peace during fortress mode, they should never stop. Be aware that if you abandon/reclaim, you will likely have to remove CAN_SPEAK during that time to prevent them from making peace between fortresses.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Xanares on March 08, 2009, 07:01:26 pm

Excellent answers, you have done your testing! :-)

Wrt. beak dogs I can only agree, although I never encountered them. Are wargs too LOTR?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also if you're interested I was thinking of making some weapons just for orcs.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Org on March 08, 2009, 07:41:15 pm

Choppa.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on March 08, 2009, 08:18:57 pm

bah worgs are prissy wolfs with an atitude! now war elephants are where its at!

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on March 08, 2009, 09:13:27 pm

Quote from: Xanares on March 08, 2009, 07:01:26 pm

Excellent answers, you have done your testing! :-)

Wrt. beak dogs I can only agree, although I never encountered them. Are wargs too LOTR?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
(http://images.gfxartist.com/images/ArtworkItem/full/115057.jpg)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
(http://community.imaginefx.com/forums/storage/41/106339/Warg_Riders_Jackdaw.jpg)

Also if you're interested I was thinking of making some weapons just for orcs.

Wargs are (LOTR-canon-wise) too small for the Orcs to ride, since these orcs are a bit larger than humans (compared to LOTR's orcs, which were human-sized or a bit under). I'm also not sure what the difference game-wise between Wargs and Dire Wolves would be, and like the name better.

Some weapons just for orcs could be interesting, though I hadn't given it much thought. What kinds were you thinking of?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Murphy on March 08, 2009, 10:27:44 pm

I was going to make a gladiator arena with orcs. Captured three in the first winter, but had no time to play with them yet, so I just threw them into the animal stockpile and kept them there for 4 years. During that time no sieges came to my fortress. So it looks like if you keep some caged siegers and do not dispose of them, new sieges won't come.

I remember some thread mentioning this bug with the goblins. And now it's proven for me. Gonna wait for them to come in huge numbers before using cage traps, so that I'll get many, many orcs for my gladiator dwarves to fight.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Sinergistic on March 08, 2009, 11:35:06 pm

Quote from: Murphy on March 08, 2009, 10:27:44 pm

I was going to make a gladiator arena with orcs. Captured three in the first winter, but had no time to play with them yet, so I just threw them into the animal stockpile and kept them there for 4 years. During that time no sieges came to my fortress. So it looks like if you keep some caged siegers and do not dispose of them, new sieges won't come.

I remember some thread mentioning this bug with the goblins. And now it's proven for me. Gonna wait for them to come in huge numbers before using cage traps, so that I'll get many, many orcs for my gladiator dwarves to fight.

Never ran into this problem, had tons and tons of caged attackers in one of my forts, and I kept getting sieged over and over.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Martin on March 09, 2009, 11:37:32 am

My previous lack of orc sieges seems to be resolved. I triggered the "A human has sprung from ambush" message a year ago which led to a human siege - apparently I had an event on the map when I embarked which blocked the Orc sieges. With that group dealt with, I got my first orc siege - 2 squads, about 24 strong. They wiped out the elf traders and I wiped them out by trapping them in the depot room and plinking them to death with my dabbling, now talented marksdwarf. Good all around.

I now have 3x as much in imported wealth as created. This is the 4th caravan I've had to mop up after getting wiped out. My 10 dwarves are basically only skilled at hauling.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Martin on March 09, 2009, 12:29:16 pm

I should add... my first Orc siege (v 0.2) was in spring. Just got another in summer. Seems like I'm off the expected schedule. Any ideas why? 2nd one was three squads - 48 total. Took out 32 of them and decided to be charitable to the last squad rather than ask my dwarves to haul any more than they were already facing (still cleaning up after the last dead caravan). Dabbling marksdwarf is now elite. Only 9 haulers...

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: reubend on March 09, 2009, 06:07:58 pm

Is it somehow possible to upgrade to v .3 without regenning my world? I'm kind of fond of my fortress right now...

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on March 09, 2009, 06:20:26 pm

Quote from: reubend on March 09, 2009, 06:07:58 pm

Is it somehow possible to upgrade to v .3 without regenning my world? I'm kind of fond of my fortress right now...

The changes to the orc creature (trapavoid etc.) shouldn't require re-genning. You won't be able to add the mount animals, the language, or the entity file changes, though.

If you want to do that, I'd suggest downloading v0.3, finding the orc creature in creature_orc.txt, and copying it in on top of the orc creature that you have from v0.2.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: reubend on March 09, 2009, 07:00:18 pm

okay, thanks. I might as well just restart; I can always regen the same world and do it better.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: jasonxfri13th on March 09, 2009, 11:32:52 pm

Quote from: Murphy on March 08, 2009, 10:27:44 pm

I was going to make a gladiator arena with orcs. Captured three in the first winter, but had no time to play with them yet, so I just threw them into the animal stockpile and kept them there for 4 years. During that time no sieges came to my fortress. So it looks like if you keep some caged siegers and do not dispose of them, new sieges won't come.

I remember some thread mentioning this bug with the goblins. And now it's proven for me. Gonna wait for them to come in huge numbers before using cage traps, so that I'll get many, many orcs for my gladiator dwarves to fight.

I have a good supply of orcs and goblins (I have 5 goblin races) and strangely one dwarf. I got the dwarf from a caravan, which is normal, but he attacks my dwarfs. I do not know why he is angry... but I will let him take his anger out on some dogs or goblins.
I like my tiger that guards my entrance... some immigrants brought it. I still wish I could turn it into a war tiger.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Zaranthan on March 10, 2009, 08:43:10 am

Open up your raws, find the tiger entry, and add the [trAINABLE] tag. Voila, war tigers.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: reubend on March 10, 2009, 12:49:39 pm

I think that if orcs should also kill the _men (slug-, ant-, rat-) and other sentient beings like troglodytes and gnomes that wander around your site if they can't get to your dwarves. That seems more orcish; if they can't kill the dwarves, they might as well kill something helpless.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Sinergistic on March 10, 2009, 01:41:39 pm

Quote from: reubend on March 10, 2009, 12:49:39 pm

I think that if orcs should also kill the _men (slug-, ant-, rat-) and other sentient beings like troglodytes and gnomes that wander around your site if they can't get to your dwarves. That seems more orcish; if they can't kill the dwarves, they might as well kill something helpless.

Not sure if this is possible atm.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Brian on March 10, 2009, 07:08:28 pm

I'm trying to install this thing and I guess I followed too many contradictory instructions. I ended up at war with giant olms. Simple mistake, eh?

Do I put entity_orc.txt into raw/objects, or do I put them into entity_default.txt? I saw both instructions so naturally I did both! (expecting something to happen)
Do I put creature_orc.txt into raw/objects? One set of instructions says to put it into creature_default,txt, but that does not exist. Do I make it, or do they mean creature_standard.txt?

Color me confused.

Funny story: So I settled in with a nearby civilization of giant olms at war with me. Within 10 frames of the game I lost 3 of my starting 7 and a dog to freezing cold. I spawned on a brook in a freezing climate.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Hamster Man on March 11, 2009, 04:58:56 am

Follow the directions in the first post. Ignore the rest of the rambling crap.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on March 11, 2009, 12:22:58 pm

Quote from: Brian on March 10, 2009, 07:08:28 pm

Do I put entity_orc.txt into raw/objects, or do I put them into entity_default.txt? I saw both instructions so naturally I did both! (expecting something to happen)
Do I put creature_orc.txt into raw/objects? One set of instructions says to put it into creature_default,txt, but that does not exist. Do I make it, or do they mean creature_standard.txt?

The files are now self-contained (they used to not be), so you just want to put entity_orc and creature_orc in your raw/objects folder. Ignore the instructions to put them in creature_default and entity_default.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Brian on March 11, 2009, 07:20:07 pm

Thanks guys, that certainly did the trick with the Orcs. But I still have a problem..

First frame after I embark in a temperate zone, I see this:
..., Miner has frozen to death.
..., Woodcutter has frozen to death.
The Stray Dog (Tame) has frozen to death.
The Stray Hourse (Tame) has frozen to death.
..., Stoneworker has frozen to death.
..., Jeweler has frozen to death.
The Stray Dog (Tame) has frozen to death.

I didn't put in the names because my tileset won't let me see accented characters. I can't think of anything that'd set the starting temperature of tiles to 0. Everyone not mentioned above was fine and did not die shortly after. What gives? Difficulty: Ubuntu

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on March 11, 2009, 08:27:24 pm

Quote from: Brian on March 11, 2009, 07:20:07 pm

Thanks guys, that certainly did the trick with the Orcs. But I still have a problem..

I didn't put in the names because my tileset won't let me see accented characters. I can't think of anything that'd set the starting temperature of tiles to 0. Everyone not mentioned above was fine and did not die shortly after. What gives? Difficulty: Ubuntu

Did you not put in [CAN_SPEAK], or did you not put in the language file? If you didn't put in the language file, you'll need to change their translation to something else (like GOBLIN), or it won't be able to find the language and odd things may well happen.

Similarly odd things may happen if you don't regenerate the world. Check your errorlog for interesting things.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Brian on March 11, 2009, 08:49:50 pm

I tried CAN_SPEAK (it was originally in there without the brackets), and yes the language file is there. Looks like I'm the only one with the problem so I'll take it elsewhere for now, or try a fresh install (though this attempt was also a fresh install).

Thanks

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: WorkerDrone on March 12, 2009, 02:08:52 am

Hey Rysith, great mod and all, I've been playing for a few hours now...

Only...

Perhaps you should rename the thread:

Orcs: More things to haul

If you've played Rysith's mod...you should know what I mean.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: SkulkingFilth on March 12, 2009, 09:17:43 am

Something really astonishing happened to my dwarves. I added the [CAN_CIV] [CAN_LEARN] to the orc raw and was surprised when I got this :

(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/1991/orcishcaravanr.th.jpg) (http://img7.imageshack.us/my.php?image=orcishcaravanr.jpg)

(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/4389/orcishcaravan2h.th.jpg) (http://img26.imageshack.us/my.php?image=orcishcaravan2h.jpg)

Those beasty green-skinned horrors were turned into lovable trading partners ! I was rofl. As it seems that no goblins are willing to attack my fortress, all my anti-orc defences are useless. Well, I'll make an immigrant-slaughter version.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Arvidsem on March 12, 2009, 11:45:27 am

[CAN_CIV] & [CAN_LEARN] should already have been in there. Did you accidentally enable [CAN_SPEAK] during world gen or embark? That will turn the Orcs into traders.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on March 12, 2009, 11:46:59 am

Quote from: SkulkingFilth on March 12, 2009, 09:17:43 am

Something really astonishing happened to my dwarves. I added the [CAN_CIV] [CAN_LEARN] to the orc raw and was surprised when I got this :

Those beasty green-skinned horrors were turned into lovable trading partners ! I was rofl. As it seems that no goblins are willing to attack my fortress, all my anti-orc defences are useless. Well, I'll make an immigrant-slaughter version.

That's what happens when you let them speak, either through [CAN_SPEAK] or [INTELLIGENT]. You shouldn't have needed to add anything to the raws, except [CAN_SPEAK] after embarking if you wanted all of your orcs to have names.

Fake Edit: Bah, beaten tot he answer by Arvidsem.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Martin on March 12, 2009, 01:00:52 pm

Quote

Orcs: More things to haul

If you've played Rysith's mod...you should know what I mean.

No kidding. Imagine my no-immigrant fort - 9 adult civilians, 1 military, 5 children. Last siege resulted in 72 orc casualties (I trap them in my trade depot room and turn the marksdwarf on them - it's the only way to survive being that outnumbered). 9 dwarves to haul/melt/dump all of that junk.

I thought I could just lock them out until the kids grew up, but between them and the upgraded gobbos, they just slaughter every trade caravan, leaving even MORE crap to pick up - and all of it farther from the fort. Better to lure them in close and wipe them out.

I think my next fort will move the trade depot next to the smelters, just to speed that up. My other unintended effect was upgrading the gobbos. My legendary +5 marksdwarf can pump 5-10 bolts into a gobbo (as in getting stuck in the gobbo) sometimes before they go down. All of those individual bolts left behind is killing the haulers.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: SkulkingFilth on March 12, 2009, 01:21:41 pm

Oh, yes indeed, I added the [CAN_SPEAK] tag for test purposes. I got in a muddle with the tags in my previous post. After a regen, Orcs are present (and they are not willing to trade anything any longer except dwarves skins :p) along with damn Frogmen and Olmen and skeletal giant eagles (these seem to hunt the olmen and frogmen, funny).

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Xanares on March 12, 2009, 08:31:30 pm

Quote from: Rysith on March 08, 2009, 09:13:27 pm

Some weapons just for orcs could be interesting, though I hadn't given it much thought. What kinds were you thinking of?

Well that depends on the kind of orc you are mostly templating against; unless these are Rysith's orcs and thus names and abilities are totally up to you. Tolkien, Warhammer, Darklands orcs comes to mind whereas Elder Scrolls orcs are far too civil here hehe.

The orcs I was playing with before I installed your mod had the following:
- orcish shield - bigger ans heavier shield for arrow/bolt defence and bashing of course (i know that is not curr. possible)
- orcish berserker axe - bigger and much heavier axe
- orcish horned helmet - again bigger and protecting ead against pesky arrows/bolts
- orcish ring mail - just instead of chain
I also removed bows from them completely; only weak races use bows hehe.

Others I was thinking of making:
- orcish butcher blade (aka choppa) - midsize slashing sword
- orc gasher - large slashing axe (2 feet blade)
- barbed spear
- metal knuckles (not sure they can work with wrestling skill though)
- orcish head splitter - large maul/mace
- spiked chain - medium/large gore
- spiked hammer - large hammer (bludgeoning)
- orcish flail - large flail
- great sword - large sword
- dire pike - large pike

The general idea is more weight, bigger, and more damage.

To balance this a bit some armour pieces could be removed, perhaps especially gauntlets and boots to make them have less items; or leggins/greaves - although another balance could be making orc versions that can be barred *bone* too.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Toady Two on March 13, 2009, 02:14:51 pm

Ok, i genned a world with the latest version of the Orc mod. Before genning I removed the [CAN_SPEAK] tag from the creature_orcs.txt Orc entry. I embarked at a site, then saved and put the tag back in.

The first winter an Orcish caravan came to me. :(

I wanted the orcs to remain the warmongering savage race that they where in the older version. What step of the way did i do something wrong?

Please tell me how to do it properly and I will regen. Too bad i have to dump such a promising site though.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Xanares on March 13, 2009, 02:34:19 pm

Yes; Toady Two you have to do the exact opposite.

IF orcs have CAN_SPEAK when summer/winter arrives and their "show up check" is set to yes, they will spawn as caravan - unless at WAR I think.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on March 13, 2009, 03:03:45 pm

Quote from: Xanares on March 13, 2009, 02:34:19 pm

Yes; Toady Two you have to do the exact opposite.

IF orcs have CAN_SPEAK when summer/winter arrives and their "show up check" is set to yes, they will spawn as caravan - unless at WAR I think.

Sigh. I test something on my system and it works, someone else goes to try it and it breaks. So:

First, the goal: Orcs should show up, at war, with names. Preferably riding giant spiders and/or elephants
Second, the things that we know:
1) Orcs that cannot speak are at war
2) Orcs that cannot speak have no names
3) Orcs that can speak are (generally) not at war
4) Orcs that can speak have names

Through observation, we can conclude that
5) Nations cannot make peace during fortress mode without a diplomat

The way that my proposed solution (gen world with non-speaking orcs, embark, then remove) was supposed to work was that the non-speaking would force them into war. You then embark (still at war) and let them speak. When the season comes around, it sees that the orcs can speak and are at war, so you get a siege.

Some things that might be interfering:
1) You added [CAN_SPEAK] before embarking. A tiny bit of world history happens as you embark, during which the orcs may say "wait! we can negotiate for peace. Stop this senseless violence!", then show up to trade as if the past several hundred years of brutal war meant nothing.
2) You embarked such that the nearest orc civ (the only one that will show up) had no contact with your parent dwarf civ, and thus you aren't at war. It *should* be possible to work around this by not adding [CAN_SPEAK] until after your first orc siege, which should move you to a state of war.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Toady Two on March 13, 2009, 04:16:33 pm

Your second explanation might be plausible in this situation, as I ran a large world with lots of orc civs.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Xanares on March 13, 2009, 05:34:57 pm

I wasn't sure the war status actually was able to start in fortress mode that way.

Since in my test I forgot to remove can_speak, which had been there through gen and embark in order to keep orc names in legend too. Summer came caravan, so I remove can_speak and winter brings violence. Can't try to reinstate it as the fortress and the human city it was under is gone by the hands of 48 orcs hehe.

No mounts though.

Sorry if I messed up the can_speak solution Rysith. Btw did the weapons I proposed, so can put them up somewhere tomorrow for you to check out.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on March 13, 2009, 06:43:41 pm

Quote from: Xanares on March 12, 2009, 08:31:30 pm

Quote from: Rysith on March 08, 2009, 09:13:27 pm
Some weapons just for orcs could be interesting, though I hadn't given it much thought. What kinds were you thinking of?

Well that dep]ends on the kind of orc you are mostly templating against; unless these are Rysith's orcs and thus names and abilities are totally up to you. Tolkien, Warhammer, Darklands orcs comes to mind whereas Elder Scrolls orcs are far too civil here hehe.

In my mind, they are tending towards the Dwarf Fortress equivalent of the Vandals and Huns. Smallish tribes, limited agriculture and hunting, burn the civilized world etc. I'm not familiar with the background behind Warhammer, nor have I head of Darklands, but I'd say that Tolkien's orc's ties to Sauron/Sauruman make them a bit too controlled for my liking.

Quote

The orcs I was playing with before I installed your mod had the following:
- orcish shield - bigger ans heavier shield for arrow/bolt defence and bashing of course (i know that is not curr. possible)
- orcish berserker axe - bigger and much heavier axe
- orcish horned helmet - again bigger and protecting ead against pesky arrows/bolts
- orcish ring mail - just instead of chain
I also removed bows from them completely; only weak races use bows hehe.

They definitely need all of the protection that they can get from arrows and bolts. I like the idea of giving them larger axes (and swords, and such). How did ring mail compare to chain mail (historically, I'd expect it to be worse). I had kept them with bows because a) it fit with the hunting tribe idea, even if they can run down most wildlife and b) non-ranged forces are entirely too easy to kill with ranged forces, so making them have no ranged weapons at all seemed like a mistake. I could see giving them something else as a ranged weapon, though. Staff slings or thrown spears come to mind.

Quote

Others I was thinking of making:
- orcish butcher blade (aka choppa) - midsize slashing sword
- orc gasher - large slashing axe (2 feet blade)
- barbed spear
- metal knuckles (not sure they can work with wrestling skill though)
- orcish head splitter - large maul/mace
- spiked chain - medium/large gore
- spiked hammer - large hammer (bludgeoning)
- orcish flail - large flail
- great sword - large sword
- dire pike - large pike

The general idea is more weight, bigger, and more damage.

I like the chain and the general "larger and heavier" theme. I think I'd want to avoid just making everything larger (since they aren't *that* much larger than humans, and likely get a bit of their stuff by raiding them), but I could see orcish spears, flails, and hammers. They already use the human two-handed swords in one hand, so that's taken care of.

Quote

To balance this a bit some armour pieces could be removed, perhaps especially gauntlets and boots to make them have less items; or leggins/greaves - although another balance could be making orc versions that can be barred *bone* too.

Yeah, I've seen several people complaining about the amount of hauling that happens with Orcs, though I suspect that that's mostly a quantity + frequency thing. And the local leaders who show up with pages of leather and bone jewelery, which I can't do anything about without giving them industries that I don't want to give them. If I took away gauntlets and boots, I'd probably balance it with an increase in DAMBLOCK so they still had equivalent protection.

Quote from: Xanares on March 13, 2009, 05:34:57 pm

I wasn't sure the war status actually was able to start in fortress mode that way.

Since in my test I forgot to remove can_speak, which had been there through gen and embark in order to keep orc names in legend too. Summer came caravan, so I remove can_speak and winter brings violence. Can't try to reinstate it as the fortress and the human city it was under is gone by the hands of 48 orcs hehe.

No mounts though.

Check the legends on one of your abandoned forts sometime, you'll see goblins go to war with something about scholars being unable to determine the cause of hostilities. The mounts (as before) only show up if the invading civ has them in their territory, but the added mounts greatly expand the terrains that will give them mounts (previously only evil swamps, now evil swamps/forest/grassland/jungle). The first siege also tends to be light on mounts, so they may have only had their squad leaders on mounts.

For extra fun, change the war elephants (or spiders) to [ANY_LAND]. The elephants are obvious, but I'm not really sure that anyone has realized the full potential for having dozens of (effectively) giant cave spiders attacking a fortress at once.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Martin on March 14, 2009, 12:20:24 am

Quote from: Rysith on March 13, 2009, 06:43:41 pm

Yeah, I've seen several people complaining about the amount of hauling that happens with Orcs, though I suspect that that's mostly a quantity + frequency thing. And the local leaders who show up with pages of leather and bone jewelery, which I can't do anything about without giving them industries that I don't want to give them. If I took away gauntlets and boots, I'd probably balance it with an increase in DAMBLOCK so they still had equivalent protection.

I think that's a good move. I don't mind the hauling. I've complained about it, but I'm working with just 9 laborers. Even so, they're getting it done (including all the caravans that the orcs wipe out).

An increase to DAMBLOCK would be nice. Not a lot, though. I'm using the upgraded goblin mod (the one with the ender gobbos), and the weakest upgraded gobbos have a nice balance. My champion marksdwarf usually has to pump 4-6 bolts into a gobbo to kill them, and a dozen isn't uncommon. By comparison he just chews through orcs, even armored ones. Any way to give them a more effective shield than dwarves can use? I'm thinking something like a tower shield that could block bolts better, but maybe is too big for a dwarf to use.

I think just getting them so they can't be regularly one-shotted by a marksdwarf or a champion hammerer get the balance set. At that point their numbers will make them reasonably challenging if you don't meet them with a superior force.

But I'm liking all the iron. Now, can you get them to drop flux stone?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Xanares on March 14, 2009, 06:44:27 am

Quote from: Rysith on March 13, 2009, 06:43:41 pm

In my mind, they are tending towards the Dwarf Fortress equivalent of the Vandals and Huns. Smallish tribes, limited agriculture and hunting, burn the civilized world etc. I'm not familiar with the background behind Warhammer, nor have I head of Darklands, but I'd say that Tolkien's orc's ties to Sauron/Sauruman make them a bit too controlled for my liking.

Quite level with you on this. Like orcs with tribal leaders but no overarching power to "guide" them.

Quote

They definitely need all of the protection that they can get from arrows and bolts. I like the idea of giving them larger axes (and swords, and such). How did ring mail compare to chain mail (historically, I'd expect it to be worse). I had kept them with bows because a) it fit with the hunting tribe idea, even if they can run down most wildlife and b) non-ranged forces are entirely too easy to kill with ranged forces, so making them have no ranged weapons at all seemed like a mistake. I could see giving them something else as a ranged weapon, though. Staff slings or thrown spears come to mind.

Ringmail is a bit like chainmail but the rings are not interlocked and thus simpler, not so heavy and more flexible. Less protection maybe, but doing up for that in beforementioned traits, so I equal it with chain in DF. Although one could argue orcish armourers would just focus on crude but heavy/strong plate armour.

Yes, I was thinking about slings or throwing spears too. I totally agree that in DF they need some ranged weapon to be a sufficient threat ~~to people just trapping and shooting them~~. ;D
Let me try and do both and we see how it works out.

Quote

I like the chain and the general "larger and heavier" theme. I think I'd want to avoid just making everything larger (since they aren't *that* much larger than humans, and likely get a bit of their stuff by raiding them), but I could see orcish spears, flails, and hammers. They already use the human two-handed swords in one hand, so that's taken care of.

I agree not everything should be larger. I've kept scimitars, scourges etc. My reasoning for heavier and orcish special weapons is that they generally are much stronger than humans albeit almost same size. Their main focus is on brute force and not on finesse, and thus humans can keep long swords to themselves and they would not be able to wield orcish weapons easily, even twohanded.

In my testing I have sofar seen barbed spears, spiked hammers, great swords and dire pikes; strangely only the pike was twohanded if I remember correctly, even if that is set as size 8 vs great sword size 10 for twohanded. My guess is that it is hardcoded or I am making a mistake.
(I have never seen dwarves and humans fly so much btw hehe.)

The metal knuckles are not equipped by the wrestlers.

Quote

Yeah, I've seen several people complaining about the amount of hauling that happens with Orcs, though I suspect that that's mostly a quantity + frequency thing. And the local leaders who show up with pages of leather and bone jewelery, which I can't do anything about without giving them industries that I don't want to give them. If I took away gauntlets and boots, I'd probably balance it with an increase in DAMBLOCK so they still had equivalent protection.

Agreed, it is worth trying although also fine as is imo.

Quote

Check the legends on one of your abandoned forts sometime, you'll see goblins go to war with something about scholars being unable to determine the cause of hostilities. The mounts (as before) only show up if the invading civ has them in their territory, but the added mounts greatly expand the terrains that will give them mounts (previously only evil swamps, now evil swamps/forest/grassland/jungle). The first siege also tends to be light on mounts, so they may have only had their squad leaders on mounts.

For extra fun, change the war elephants (or spiders) to [ANY_LAND]. The elephants are obvious, but I'm not really sure that anyone has realized the full potential for having dozens of (effectively) giant cave spiders attacking a fortress at once.

Maybe I have just been "unlucky" sofar in that respect; it could be a lack of evil area in my maps. Dire wolves at least could be almost anywhere I think.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: shadow_archmagi on March 14, 2009, 07:23:48 pm

So, do I need to remove goblins for orcs to show up?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Raphite1 on March 14, 2009, 09:30:05 pm

What exactly is it that makes a race use particular creatures as mounts? Wasn't clear to me from looking at the files here.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: bunsoth datannil on March 14, 2009, 10:37:47 pm

Quote from: Raphite1 on March 14, 2009, 09:30:05 pm

What exactly is it that makes a race use particular creatures as mounts? Wasn't clear to me from looking at the files here.

it's part of entity files, [USE_EVIL_ANIMALS]

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Martin on March 15, 2009, 12:44:56 pm

Quote from: shadow_archmagi on March 14, 2009, 07:23:48 pm

So, do I need to remove goblins for orcs to show up?

No, I have both gobbos and orcs. Not in the same season, but when I don't have orcs, I definitely have gobbos. I didn't get orcs showing up for a few years because I had humans ambushing on my map at embark. It took a few years to stumble across them, but once that ambush was gone, the orcs started showing up. You might want to scout around your map and see if you trigger something.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on March 16, 2009, 01:31:59 am

Quote from: Raphite1 on March 14, 2009, 09:30:05 pm

What exactly is it that makes a race use particular creatures as mounts? Wasn't clear to me from looking at the files here.

The mounts have [EVIL] and [MOUNT], the orcs have [USE_EVIL_ANIMALS]. Any creature that the civilization can use with the [MOUNT] tag can show up as a mount in a siege. For example, horses have [MOUNT] and [COMMON_DOMESTIC], and humans have [COMMON_DOMESTIC_MOUNT]. The mounts aren't tied specifically to the Orcs, so it's certainly possible to get a war elephant goblin siege.

Now to find an embark spot where the goblins ride elephants and the orcs ride spiders...

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Vattic on March 16, 2009, 03:00:59 pm

On the topic of mounts I notice that Dire Wolves have no [MOUNT] tag. Hope it hasn't already been mentioned.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Martin on March 16, 2009, 06:18:37 pm

Ok, Orcs need to get tougher.

I just had a dwarven caravan show up and 2 days later a siege started. A bunch spawned right outside the fort, and there was really no way to prevent them from coming in. 80 orcs in 5 squads came in and some of the caravan ended up surviving with no assistance from me. That was about 8-10 dwarves in usual dwarven gear (crappy quality steel) killing about 60 of the orcs before they turned tail and ran (no ranged orcs, I should note). All of the dwarven guards ultimately died as did a few of the traders, but still, they were outnumbered 10:1 and had no real skills relative to what a player would have in their fortress.

Maybe something a bit closer to the Intimidating Goblin (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=18805.0)?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Raphite1 on March 18, 2009, 04:06:45 pm

Bah! Just spent hours genning worlds, scouring for embark sites, and planning out my customized-for-the-landscape fort on paper, only to have ye olde problem of Orcs showing up to trade during the first winter. I thought I had followed the instructions for [CAN_SPEAK] addition/removal carefully, but I guess not.

Is there any way to make them aggressive now, or do I have to start over from the beginning?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on March 18, 2009, 05:08:44 pm

Quote from: Martin on March 16, 2009, 06:18:37 pm

Ok, Orcs need to get tougher.
[snip]

Maybe something a bit closer to the Intimidating Goblin (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=18805.0)?

I had really hoped to avoid going the direction of the intimidating goblin, since part of the point (for me, at least) of the orcs was an alternative to the exercise in impossible-to-kill monsters that the better goblins mod turned into.

In my tests, a single squad (16 orcs) was able to take down a 6-wagon caravan plus guards, with around 50% casualties most of the time. Sometimes the some of the caravan would be able to flee, but the wagons + pack animals were dead,. Except in one test were a muskox killed the squad leader and the rest of them fled, but I wrote that off as an anomaly. I can't actually think of anything that should have made that possible, really. Especially since the leaders should be multi-legendary killing machines...

Any way you could provide a save/movie/something so that I can try to figure out how they died?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Martin on March 18, 2009, 05:46:43 pm

No movie now nor save, unfortunately, but let me try to get one next time. One of the orcs was an elite wrestler and he went down in a snap. Might have been a fluke though. The bastard left 37 screens of -cave swallowman earrings- to clean up. I let the orcs have their way with the trade caravans pretty frequently - it's just to much work to haul back all their crap if they get massacred on the other side of the map.

I agree the at the better gobbo mod really does go pretty far, but the lowest level ones really aren't too bad, and they wouldn't need to be quite that tough. The biggest challenge with them is that they are fast, so it's hard to run away when they ambush, but that's not much of a problem with siegers as you have some time to get your act together.

Mostly the orcs have been wiping out elves and humans, but I'll see if I can get them to work over the dwarves next time they visit. Not directly related, it seems to me that if 9 normal attackers (one on each side, plus one on your guy) can't take out a champion - at least to wound them with some regularity, then the balance is off. I realize ranged units change things, but dealing with them should be a different strategic matter.

Anyway, let me see how the next encounter goes and I'll try and get you some details.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on March 18, 2009, 06:26:20 pm

Quote from: Martin on March 18, 2009, 05:46:43 pm

Not directly related, it seems to me that if 9 normal attackers (one on each side, plus one on your guy) can't take out a champion - at least to wound them with some regularity, then the balance is off. I realize ranged units change things, but dealing with them should be a different strategic matter.

Anyway, let me see how the next encounter goes and I'll try and get you some details.

Oddly enough, that's the balance that I normally saw with the Orcish squad leaders: 9 dwarven sword/axe champions surrounding them and they would normally take down a champion before dying, hence why I was surprised at the battle result. Movies of that here (http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1114-113springsiege-thirdbattle) (Dark blue Orc guard) and here (http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1125-summer113-firstskirmish) (Orc slasher). I look forward to seeing the details, since the Orcs (especially 80 of them) should be able to easily destroy a dwarven caravan, or they aren't working as intended.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Raphite1 on March 18, 2009, 08:11:48 pm

Even after re-reading the last couple of pages of this thread, I'm still really not clear on when to add/remove the [CAN_SPEAK] token. Can someone post a precise order of operations?

Also, if orcs have sent a caravan, will removing [CAN_SPEAK] turn them hostile for the future?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: BirdoPrey on March 18, 2009, 08:35:37 pm

Gah! My first winter's siege my dwarves were too busy dumping rocks to pull the drawbridge lever and they all got slaughtered.

Here's the weird part: When I reclaimed (with about 70 military dwarves) the orcs on the map were all friendly! I couldn't avenge my fallen settlers! What's up with that?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Zaranthan on March 19, 2009, 06:55:21 am

~~Ninjas~~ Upright spikes. Thousands of them.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Xanares on March 19, 2009, 01:08:04 pm

Quote from: BirdoPrey on March 18, 2009, 08:35:37 pm

Gah! My first winter's siege my dwarves were too busy dumping rocks to pull the drawbridge lever and they all got slaughtered.

Here's the weird part: When I reclaimed (with about 70 military dwarves) the orcs on the map were all friendly! I couldn't avenge my fallen settlers! What's up with that?

Haha I had the exact same thing. Messed up reclaim code I'd say.

Quote from: Raphite1 on March 18, 2009, 08:11:48 pm

Even after re-reading the last couple of pages of this thread, I'm still really not clear on when to add/remove the [CAN_SPEAK] token. Can someone post a precise order of operations?

Also, if orcs have sent a caravan, will removing [CAN_SPEAK] turn them hostile for the future?

Yes it will - at least that is what happened to me.

I do this:
1) enable can_speak for world gen and embark
2) save, quit, disable can_speak, resume game

You can also have it disabled all the time - which probably makes orcs more hostile in world gen. Although that will create a lot of unnamed orcs.

There is no great way to ensure both names and hostility currently. The trick is to get at WAR with them, which you apparently only do on first siege or as a result of world gen chance. So, once you are at WAR you should be able to enable can_speak again and have named orcs. Bit confusing I know, but just look at it from a WAR point of view. You need the WAR. ;D

@ Rysith/Martin:
I am hoping weapons can help here - doing final testing on them now. Much more importantly though, my first siege on this test had an orcish lasher riding a giant wolf spider hehehe! 16 orcs, all died but 2 (fled) - not any super orcs among them and my six double legend wrestlers in no armour plus two archers did it. Was a bit surprised I had no casualties or injuries, but to be fair it was the first siege, so it was the orcish eqvivalent of fisherdwarves I'd say.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on March 19, 2009, 01:14:12 pm

Quote from: Xanares on March 19, 2009, 01:08:04 pm

@ Rysith/Martin:
I am hoping weapons can help here - doing final testing on them now. Much more importantly though, my first siege on this test had an orcish lasher riding a giant wolf spider hehehe! 16 orcs, all died but 2 (fled) - not any super orcs among them and my six double legend wrestlers in no armour plus two archers did it. Was a bit surprised I had no casualties or injuries, but to be fair it was the first siege, so it was the orcish eqvivalent of fisherdwarves I'd say.

I'm a bit surprised too, though legendary wrestlers might well be able to dodge well enough that they don't need armor. Part of the issue, of course, is that the average dwarven defenders will be much better trained and equipped than I can get the orcs to be, at least until we get access to the siege logic and can generate trained siegers.

How did the spider fare?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Xanares on March 19, 2009, 01:22:58 pm

Quote from: Rysith on March 19, 2009, 01:14:12 pm

I'm a bit surprised too, though legendary wrestlers might well be able to dodge well enough that they don't need armor. Part of the issue, of course, is that the average dwarven defenders will be much better trained and equipped than I can get the orcs to be, at least until we get access to the siege logic and can generate trained siegers.

How did the spider fare?

The spider got a bit ahead with Lasher on him and thus got mobbed by all wrestlers at once. Took far longer to kill it than any of the orcs though, although I was surprised it didn't seem to be using any webbing.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Chromie on March 19, 2009, 09:28:03 pm

I just had my first successful (read: did not immediately result in local dwarf genocide) orc siege, and I have to say, thumbs up!

I had 4 elite wrestlers, equipped with wooden crossbows and bone bolts shooting from a 4z high tower behind a curtain wall/moat... but they didn't do much besides provoke the orcs. I had to do a bit of a dance raising and lowering the drawbridge (and lost my bowyer immigrant that supplied me with the wooden pew pew, alas) to draw them closer, but the real massacre happened because I dug a 1 tile wide doorway into the ground level opening of my magma pool.

One curious fire imp got all but 1 of the dozen orcs (by burning the world), two ran off and the last unlucky sod got plinked and punched to death after he got into my courtyard.

The fire imp took some orc damage, and unconscious on the side of the mountain, he got taken care of by my elite wrestlers.

:D Much more fun than goblins.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Xanares on March 20, 2009, 10:24:23 am

Hoowah second siege filled with spiders!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Some 25 orcs on spiders, this is going to be interesting!

Unfort. I have to leave for skiing vacation now, so will have to wait hehe. At least I will go to the mountains and hit the ground a bit.

Rysith, sending you pm with weapons stuff. Good weekend mining everydwarf!

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Kethas on March 23, 2009, 07:49:07 pm

Hey, love the idea of having more serious threats from outside the fortress and I'm trying to install. A couple things:

1) My version of entity_orc.txt does NOT have a [SIEGER] tag. Is that correct? If so, how do the orcs, well, siege?
2) I didn't know if I installed the mod correctly, so I made a skeleton fortress and just ran it for ~2 years. No orcs at all. First, is there any way to test that I've installed them correctly? I've read earlier in this thread about people asking "can you see orcs on the embark screen / in your civ list." What does that mean - how do I check it? Where on the embark screen should I be able to see/select civs? (I'm also confused because I've read elsewhere I should be able to pick different civs to play as in Fortress mode, but I never see a relevant selection screen - it lets me pick an embark site, and then next I'm setting up my *dwarf* embark party.) If I don't see any Orc civs in the civ screen ('c' once playing in Fortress mode) does that mean orcs don't know about my fortress and I'll never be attacked/sieged?

I read about how the orc entity has population, production, and trade triggers of 1, 2, and 1 respectively - I assume (hope?) that's why I never saw orcs in my skeleton-crew, pretty-much-afk fortress. What do those trigger values (pop 1, production 2, trade 1) correspond to, roughly? Again, is there a way I can confirm the mod's installed correctly, rather than invest five years in a fort just for no orcs to show up?

Thanks for the help - I'm finding vanilla DF to be really, really easy (three-tile-wide moat = invulnerable, goblins leave quickly and I can wait a month or two to harvest wood etc), and am not enjoying the lack of challenge. I'm looking forward to having my economy/engineering put to the test by the orcs. (I've actually already changed entity_orc.txt to make them active in all four seasons. I'm just a glutton for punishment.) I just don't want spend hours/days creating the perfect fortress only to discover that no orcs will be forthcoming.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: InsanityPrelude on March 24, 2009, 12:44:30 am

Goblins don't have a [SIEGER] tag either, interestingly. I just checked my raws.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Arvidsem on March 24, 2009, 09:40:29 am

Sieger is, I think for human and elf type civs that siege from the player angering them. The default behavior for a at-war civilization is sieging. The problem is that it's quite hard to have a intelligent civ actually stay at war with someone. Thus all the screwing around with CAN_SPEAK to prevent diplomacy from ruining our horrible orcish raping.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: gumball135 on March 24, 2009, 12:02:35 pm

Quote

1) My version of entity_orc.txt does NOT have a [SIEGER] tag. Is that correct? If so, how do the orcs, well, siege?

I think the sieger tag only makes the entity siege you if you anger them, not straight away. That'd be down to removing the [CAN_SPEAK] tag, or if two races disagree with each other's ethics.

Quote

2) I didn't know if I installed the mod correctly, so I made a skeleton fortress and just ran it for ~2 years. No orcs at all. First, is there any way to test that I've installed them correctly? I've read earlier in this thread about people asking "can you see orcs on the embark screen / in your civ list." What does that mean - how do I check it? Where on the embark screen should I be able to see/select civs? (I'm also confused because I've read elsewhere I should be able to pick different civs to play as in Fortress mode, but I never see a relevant selection screen - it lets me pick an embark site, and then next I'm setting up my *dwarf* embark party.) If I don't see any Orc civs in the civ screen ('c' once playing in Fortress mode) does that mean orcs don't know about my fortress and I'll never be attacked/sieged?

When selecting your site, press TAB. This will cycle through the different info screens: the height of an area, the different civilizations, the different groups you can embark as (in vanilla, or unmodded DF, you can only play as the dwarves, but the dwarven civ is divided into several different allied factions, IE "the drunken beards", "the severed lances", and "the beer mongers", who all own different fortresses in different sections of the map). If several red "-"s are next to a civs name, they will be aggressive towards you.

As far as I'm aware, Rysith's mod doesn't allow you to actually play as the orcs.

Quote

I read about how the orc entity has population, production, and trade triggers of 1, 2, and 1 respectively - I assume (hope?) that's why I never saw orcs in my skeleton-crew, pretty-much-afk fortress. What do those trigger values (pop 1, production 2, trade 1) correspond to, roughly? Again, is there a way I can confirm the mod's installed correctly, rather than invest five years in a fort just for no orcs to show up?

I'm unsure of what the different trigger values correspond to. I think you've gotta keep the value of your items traded under 1000 dwarfolians when the first caravans come. No clue about production or population. I'm think the population means that they'll come straight away? But that's with emphasis on the "think".

The orcs nearly always come in the first Winter. Check if they're present in the civilization thingy I mentioned above. Otherwise, perhaps you have a goblin ambush hidden somewhere in the map. Only one ambush/siege can occur at once, at the moment anyways.

Quote

Thanks for the help - I'm finding vanilla DF to be really, really easy (three-tile-wide moat = invulnerable, goblins leave quickly and I can wait a month or two to harvest wood etc), and am not enjoying the lack of challenge. I'm looking forward to having my economy/engineering put to the test by the orcs. (I've actually already changed entity_orc.txt to make them active in all four seasons. I'm just a glutton for punishment.) I just don't want spend hours/days creating the perfect fortress only to discover that no orcs will be forthcoming.

If you lock yourself in and surround your fort with a moat, there's only really so much challenge ANY creature can give you, unless they're flying building destroyers. The orc's battering rams (elephants) won't be able to reach your gate over water. Maybe in future versions, your enemies will bring along siege engines, ladders, towers and the like, but at the moment, if you want to increase the difficulty for yourself, you're going to have to set limits on your defences.

*Pant pant*

Hope that helps you on your quest for fun! (http://dwarf.lendemaindeveille.com/index.php/Fun) :D

EDIT: After doing a bit of research on the wiki, the BABYSNATCHER tag also makes a civ aggressive, but they also ambush you and steal your babies. And that's not very Orcy, is it?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: WJLIII3 on March 24, 2009, 12:39:54 pm

Now, the important question. Has anyone tried playing as the Orcs? Can it be done?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on March 24, 2009, 01:07:38 pm

Quote from: Kethas on March 23, 2009, 07:49:07 pm

Hey, love the idea of having more serious threats from outside the fortress and I'm trying to install. A couple things:

1) My version of entity_orc.txt does NOT have a [SIEGER] tag. Is that correct? If so, how do the orcs, well, siege?

[SIEGER] makes them gather around a campfire and sit around telling scary stories for a few months before they attack your fortress, like the humans do. Theoretically, it's supposed to make you need to come out and meet them on the field to break the siege, but since breaking sieges isn't really ever a priority it's kind of pointless. Plus, since Orcs can't pillage your fortress site, it's not very orcy at all to wait to attack you.

Right now, Orcs attack you because they don't have [CAN_SPEAK], which means that they are always hostile to everyone all the time. Since they are hostile and don't have [BABYSNATCHER] or [ITEM_THIEF], the only way that they can express their hostility is by laying siege. If they had [BABYSNATCHER], they would also always be hostile but would be able to steal your babies and ambush you as well (non-orcy, as Gumball said), and if they had [ITEM_THIEF] they would be able to send thieves (as Kobolds do), which again isn't very orcy.

Quote

2) I didn't know if I installed the mod correctly, so I made a skeleton fortress and just ran it for ~2 years. No orcs at all. First, is there any way to test that I've installed them correctly? I've read earlier in this thread about people asking "can you see orcs on the embark screen / in your civ list." What does that mean - how do I check it? Where on the embark screen should I be able to see/select civs? (I'm also confused because I've read elsewhere I should be able to pick different civs to play as in Fortress mode, but I never see a relevant selection screen - it lets me pick an embark site, and then next I'm setting up my *dwarf* embark party.) If I don't see any Orc civs in the civ screen ('c' once playing in Fortress mode) does that mean orcs don't know about my fortress and I'll never be attacked/sieged?

I read about how the orc entity has population, production, and trade triggers of 1, 2, and 1 respectively - I assume (hope?) that's why I never saw orcs in my skeleton-crew, pretty-much-afk fortress. What do those trigger values (pop 1, production 2, trade 1) correspond to, roughly? Again, is there a way I can confirm the mod's installed correctly, rather than invest five years in a fort just for no orcs to show up?

Population 1 is at about 20, trade 1 is at about 1000 exported wealth, and I'm not sure where production is, other than that it's based on created wealth and I've only hit it when I'm actively trying to avoid the other two. Both population and trade should be quite easy to hit by the first winter if you're playing actively.

Quote

Thanks for the help - I'm finding vanilla DF to be really, really easy (three-tile-wide moat = invulnerable, goblins leave quickly and I can wait a month or two to harvest wood etc), and am not enjoying the lack of challenge. I'm looking forward to having my economy/engineering put to the test by the orcs. (I've actually already changed entity_orc.txt to make them active in all four seasons. I'm just a glutton for punishment.) I just don't want spend hours/days creating the perfect fortress only to discover that no orcs will be forthcoming.

Yeah, unfortunately there isn't a good way to get them to deal with moats (flying mounts don't work, unfortunately), so you may have to avoid sealing your fort completely to get a challenge. But, if you leave your fortress open you should get a reasonable challenge out of them.

Gumball/WJLIII3: My mod doesn't allow you to play as the orcs, though I see no reason why you couldn't. It should work just like playing as any other custom race.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: RoboCicero on March 26, 2009, 01:56:11 am

Hm, does removing CAN_SPEAK after you reclaim work? I have a bunch of friendly orcs wandering around my fort at the moment -- it's making cleaning up very easy, but I do want to give it another go in the near future.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: kefkakrazy on March 26, 2009, 11:35:58 am

I buggered something up, probably playing with CAN_SPEAK, and the orcs were... FRIENDLY. AN ORCISH CARAVAN! THE HORROR!

So I took everything they had and deleted CAN_SPEAK from the orc raws.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Raz on March 26, 2009, 08:25:10 pm

Nice addon, but I don't like the fact that they ride spiders. Spiders shouldn't even be trainable at all.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Zaranthan on March 26, 2009, 08:35:13 pm

Are you kidding? Spider cavalry is the only known counter to bear cavalry!

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Raz on March 26, 2009, 08:49:01 pm

"Yeah, you're pretty much fucked now"

But there isn't any bear cavalry in yet. ;)

Nah the main reason why I don't like it, is that it seems a bit cheap fantasy to me, not really like the semi-original DF fantasy race setup. Ah well. It's still fun though.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: RoboCicero on March 26, 2009, 10:39:35 pm

Ah, never mind. After removing can_speak any currently friendly orcs stay friendly, until the next siege rolls in. Then they all turn hostile. Weirdly enough, this also means that they are targeted by the incoming orcs with the seige.

I think they're a bit too hardcore, I'm getting wiped each time a siege occurs. I guess I better invest in a moat!

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: kefkakrazy on March 26, 2009, 11:56:12 pm

I kept the latest versions and just dropped their TRAPAVOID. They're badass enough without it, and I can self-limit myself on traps, thank you very much :P

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on March 27, 2009, 12:35:33 am

Quote from: Raz on March 26, 2009, 08:49:01 pm

"Yeah, you're pretty much fucked now"

But there isn't any bear cavalry in yet. ;)

I could add bear cavalry for the next version. Could be fun, in both senses of the word.

Mostly, I added spiders because I wanted to give them mounts that varied their capabilities a bit. Wolves are "generic", elephants can break down doors (plus they are huge and stomp you), and spiders web. There aren't that many other special abilities that you can give to creatures in DF.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Grath on March 27, 2009, 10:39:30 am

So, I started a fort with the Orcs mod, trying a new design strategy and an aboveground fort.
I got a new experience in my DF though... I had my first Tantrum Spiral because I didn't set up individual rooms fast enough. The Orcs just kept me inside for a few months.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: kotekzot on April 04, 2009, 05:36:37 am

they are so hardcore i had to remove their brains to survive (most of them died almost instantly, but a certain master pikeman has crawled about 20 tiles on sheer badassery). can't afford to have fun yet, must finish project.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: bhamv on April 06, 2009, 11:21:27 am

I also had Orcs show up in strange seasons. Just now an Orc siege popped up as the Dwarven caravan was making its way towards my fortress. All the traders managed to get to safety, except for one last pack animal and its merchant, who both got killed. This, unfortunately, made the entire caravan refuse to trade.

I'm guessing, maybe, it has something to do with the distance the Orcs have to travel to get to my location, they don't make it until one season later. This is completely guesswork though, I don't know if it's true. But assuming it is, could I change the Orcs' active seasons to, say, winter and spring, that way at least the Dwarven caravan should be left untouched? Because right now there's no real pattern to when the Orcs show up, and they've managed to attack each caravan at least once.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on April 06, 2009, 02:05:21 pm

Quote from: bhamv on April 06, 2009, 11:21:27 am

I also had Orcs show up in strange seasons. Just now an Orc siege popped up as the Dwarven caravan was making its way towards my fortress. All the traders managed to get to safety, except for one last pack animal and its merchant, who both got killed. This, unfortunately, made the entire caravan refuse to trade.

I'm guessing, maybe, it has something to do with the distance the Orcs have to travel to get to my location, they don't make it until one season later. This is completely guesswork though, I don't know if it's true. But assuming it is, could I change the Orcs' active seasons to, say, winter and spring, that way at least the Dwarven caravan should be left untouched? Because right now there's no real pattern to when the Orcs show up, and they've managed to attack each caravan at least once.

Did you have events (ambushes or other sieges) the previous season? The only time I've seen Orcs show up out of season was in a spring when there was a goblin siege during the winter, which looked like it "pushed" the orc siege one season ahead. Not much you can do about that, unfortunately (other than going out and defending the caravan, of course).

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Qwernt on April 06, 2009, 03:17:10 pm

For fun I modding in Wargs (dire wolf++) with orcs... I have yet to have a fort survive... maybe I made them a little too tough - though to be fair, Skeleton Dire Wolves have killed me a couple of times too.

(wargs spoiled below)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Grath on April 06, 2009, 08:34:49 pm

Holy CHRIST those orcs are fast :o
By the time I see them charging at my gates it's too late to close them!

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: tsen on April 06, 2009, 08:36:59 pm

What does "CAN_LEARN" do for wargs? They don't use weapons, armor or shields and presumably don't wrestle. Just give them stats or something?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: PsychoBuck on April 07, 2009, 01:19:15 am

Quote from: RantingRodent on February 17, 2009, 08:45:42 am

What does everyone think of these sprites for the orc military? Sphr style.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
(http://i42.tinypic.com/k56hd5.png)

Sorry, they don't look orcy enough. So I made a few adjustments for my use.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Grath on April 07, 2009, 11:21:00 am

Are Orcs [BUILDINGDESTROYER:1] or [BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]? They wouldn't path to my (rock) doors to smash them when I locked the orcs out.

Upon looking at the raws... They don't have ANY form of building destroyer? That seems un-orclike. A locked door should mean 'Smash', not 'Where are the dwarves?'

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Qwernt on April 07, 2009, 12:14:36 pm

No idea what Can Learn will do for Wargs - I had no idea what it did in the first place, i just threw it on there to see if it would make them "smarter" - I was thinking to do Cav Civ (Tolkien Wargs could speak - not sure if I want Warg traders though...).

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: MarineMorton on April 07, 2009, 12:19:32 pm

Man this sucks I just had my second set of elves but not an orc in sight! Plus to top it off the first Goblin ambush got burnt to death after a fight between an imp and one my dogs started a forest fire! Well least it giveing me time to get steel up and running ;D

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on April 07, 2009, 12:26:59 pm

Quote from: Grath on April 07, 2009, 11:21:00 am

Upon looking at the raws... They don't have ANY form of building destroyer? That seems un-orclike. A locked door should mean 'Smash', not 'Where are the dwarves?'

I didn't want to give generic orcs buildingdestroyer, since then they had an annoying tendency to prioritize smashing things over killing dwarves: not very orcy either (kill, then smash). Armored War Elephants are building destroyers, partially to try to remedy the lack of general building destruction.

[CAN_LEARN] means that they will gain skill and stats, but does almost nothing for things that are generated on spawn like invading mounts.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Raphite1 on April 08, 2009, 11:19:28 am

What determines whether siegers will come with mounts? I've never had goblins show up with beak dogs, but was hoping to see some orcs with mounts. I took out the spiders and wolves, but changed the elephants to ANY_LAND. My map is a swamp, I'm pretty sure the alignment is neutral. Hundreds of orcs have come over the years, but I have yet to see them bring a mount.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on April 08, 2009, 12:15:33 pm

Quote from: Raphite1 on April 08, 2009, 11:19:28 am

What determines whether siegers will come with mounts? I've never had goblins show up with beak dogs, but was hoping to see some orcs with mounts. I took out the spiders and wolves, but changed the elephants to ANY_LAND. My map is a swamp, I'm pretty sure the alignment is neutral. Hundreds of orcs have come over the years, but I have yet to see them bring a mount.

Creatures will bring mounts if they have access to them in world gen. Thus, if an orc civ has a fortress in lands populated by war elephants, they will bring war elephants as mounts. Beak dogs are the same way, but since they only live in evil swamps they aren't that common at all. Giving the elephants [ANY_LAND] would allow them to show up in any evil terrain (since they are [EVIL] themselves, to prevent humans/elves/dwarves from using them), but since not all creatures will show up in all terrains your orcs may not have them, especially if the civ that is attacking you is small. It has nothing to do with the terrain that you embark on.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Tigershark13 on April 08, 2009, 06:36:53 pm

so... if i make a creature give it mount and the orcs have access to it, they'll come riding it?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Raphite1 on April 08, 2009, 06:48:58 pm

Am I correct in thinking that I can increase the chance of mounts being accessible to the orc civ (and thereby arriving in sieges) by having War Elephants, War Mammoths, War Mastodons, War Pachyderms, War Tuskers, War Proboscids, and War Oliphaunts, all identical to your War Elephants except for name, and all having [BIOME:ANY_LAND]?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: InsanityPrelude on April 08, 2009, 11:00:29 pm

These guys do their job well. Maybe too well. I'm having a really hard time getting a fortress off the ground when it's getting sieged literally every other season, before I even have time to train a proper military; I keep missing caravans while I'm waiting them out (and they wiped out one entire human caravan, except for the diplomat that was indoors at the time. Oh well, at least I got a free anvil.)

And that's without them even bringing snipers!

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: MarineMorton on April 09, 2009, 07:05:35 am

Lucky you just had my third winter with not a orc in sight! Only had two goblin ambushes as well ??? Anyone got any idea why no one wants to come kill my dwarfs? ;D

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on April 09, 2009, 08:54:03 am

Quote from: Raphite1 on April 08, 2009, 06:48:58 pm

Am I correct in thinking that I can increase the chance of mounts being accessible to the orc civ (and thereby arriving in sieges) by having War Elephants, War Mammoths, War Mastodons, War Pachyderms, War Tuskers, War Proboscids, and War Oliphaunts, all identical to your War Elephants except for name, and all having [BIOME:ANY_LAND]?

Yes, that will make it more likely that your orcs will have mounts.

Quote from: Tigershark13 on April 08, 2009, 06:36:53 pm

so... if i make a creature give it mount and the orcs have access to it, they'll come riding it?

The creature needs to be [EVIL] too.

Quote from: MarineMorton on April 09, 2009, 07:05:35 am

Lucky you just had my third winter with not a orc in sight! Only had two goblin ambushes as well ??? Anyone got any idea why no one wants to come kill my dwarfs? ;D

Were they on the embark screen? You would have already passed the thresholds if you are getting goblin ambushes, though ambushes will prevent sieges.

It's possible that you are in an area of the world that is inaccessible to orcs (sometimes everyone gangs up on them in worldgen and such), which would mean no orcs will come and attack you, just like the goblin-inaccessible locations that sometimes come up.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: InsanityPrelude on April 10, 2009, 06:08:48 pm

And there goes another fort. They showed up in a season they shouldn't even have been active in!

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Tigershark13 on April 10, 2009, 08:29:20 pm

wow... giant wolf spiders = quite deadly...

I've lost two forts in my current project of 'build a large and complex above ground bunker in an evil forest' because they mob my tree cutters and then camp the axes... causing me to grind to a halt and get mobbed by orcs... often riding more of the spiders :P

ahh the joy of fun :D

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rockphed on April 10, 2009, 09:28:00 pm

I added [CAN_SPEAK] to the orcs after I started a fort. It was, in fact, in the middle of a siege that killed all but 2 of my dwarves. After the orcs left, I tried rebuilding. It went well until I got some orc traders. After the second set of orc traders, I decided to remove [CAN_SPEAK] from the orcs. However, now I don't get any. What should I do to get some orcs to fight my rapidly growing army?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Tigershark13 on April 11, 2009, 10:08:34 pm

I...oh god...it..it was horrible...

I had this good little two year fort going... some epic artefacts (such as my 10 K ring :S) nice big marble above ground barracks ect... a ... good military, two champion swordsdwarves... and then.. they came..

They had lots of snipers So I thought 'okay... we'll sit in the barracks let them come up the stairs and kill them' this tactic was going well as the orcs mopped up the dogs... until my squad leader/champion decided it'd be very cool...to jump off my platform... into a horde of orc snipers(i'm actually pretty sure he was shot off but still sounds cooler that way) now normally. I would commend a dwarf for such epic/heroic efforts...however...that one move caused all his lemming like squad mates to follow and become blown apart in a hail of arrows (Literally, there were pieces everywhere... the ground was littered with shattered arrows...) Now... I had lost alot of civilians as they had got locked outside of my last stand point... (the orcs even slaughtered the puppies and children :'( ) ...I had my founding seven (they somehow all got through) all with baisic military training... and my legendary wood crafter... and one War dog... so I sit there a few minutes and think 'okay.. I'll coax the orcs around a corner... and mob them before they can fire'... i turned off persue enemies... and unlocked the doors... and what does my squad do? run out for a nice cold beer... into the sight of the orcs and get blown to bloody pieces...

Was fun as helll but slightly sad :P

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rockphed on April 12, 2009, 01:22:53 am

Okay, my army wasn't big enough or well trained enough. The orcs killed about 20 dwarfs including both survivors from the last siege and my new miner. I think that I was saved by two things. First I removed [trap_avoid] from the orcs so they got eviscerated while trying to enter the back door. It didn't work well enough though because they still managed to get into my fortress. I suppose I need more traps. Secondly, I had a half bajillion wardogs.

Rebuilding is going slowly. I lost most of my legendary workers, so I can't build things very quickly. On the other hand, I have a vast supply of adamantine so if any of my smiths goes fey I will have an epic artifact of epicness with which to fight off the horde.

I think I have now been running this for for 7 years. I have something like 700 plump helmets lying around and enough booze to last a decade.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: MarineMorton on April 12, 2009, 08:02:25 am

Got some Orcs at last on a year and half old fort ! 37 dead dwarfs later I have no one left :o killed about 3 orcs ::)

Must dash got orcs to kill(be killed by)

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: WJLIII3 on April 14, 2009, 02:14:44 pm

The link on the front page doesn't work. Has a new one been posted anywhere in the thread and I just missed it?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Zaius on April 14, 2009, 07:02:31 pm

Is there anyway to tell the difference between an orc and a goblin tower in adventure mode? i am beginning to suspect the orcs have wiped them out.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on April 14, 2009, 07:19:03 pm

Quote from: WJLIII3 on April 14, 2009, 02:14:44 pm

The link on the front page doesn't work. Has a new one been posted anywhere in the thread and I just missed it?

Seems to be working for me....

Quote from: Zaius on April 14, 2009, 07:02:31 pm

Is there anyway to tell the difference between an orc and a goblin tower in adventure mode? i am beginning to suspect the orcs have wiped them out.

Legends mode will tell you. Aside from that, I don't think so (since it translates the names for you, right?). In general, goblins will build in the mountains and orcs will build on the plains, though, which might help.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Zaius on April 14, 2009, 07:34:52 pm

Thanks, i will keep searching. For the next world i make, is there anything i can do to help the goblins survive world gen? I rarely see more than a single thief compared to the legions of orcs that attack me, and i have razed 6 orc towers without finding a single goblin in adventure mode.
Should i try increasing their birth rate?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Cult of the Raven on April 14, 2009, 08:12:45 pm

Okay, this thread is too long. I would read through it all to try and find the answer, but meh.
When I try to gen a world with this orc mod in, it messes up the gen -
Firstly, there are no dwarves. the embarkable civ seems to always be human. Every gen I run seems to kill off the dwarfs.
Secondly, the orcs don't actually become a civilization. Instead, the gen uses war elephants. If I take out war elephants, it uses gremlins or fox squirrels.
I'm playing with a modified version of Teldin's mod (just the creatures, some plants, and food names), but the gen still messes up if I take out those files.
I'm clearing the data objects folder between each try, and I've fiddled with it a bit, but nothing I do seems to fix the issue. What do you suggest I do?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on April 14, 2009, 08:43:08 pm

Quote from: Cult of the Raven on April 14, 2009, 08:12:45 pm

Okay, this thread is too long. I would read through it all to try and find the answer, but meh.
When I try to gen a world with this orc mod in, it messes up the gen -
Firstly, there are no dwarves. the embarkable civ seems to always be human. Every gen I run seems to kill off the dwarfs.
Secondly, the orcs don't actually become a civilization. Instead, the gen uses war elephants. If I take out war elephants, it uses gremlins or fox squirrels.
I'm playing with a modified version of Teldin's mod (just the creatures, some plants, and food names), but the gen still messes up if I take out those files.
I'm clearing the data objects folder between each try, and I've fiddled with it a bit, but nothing I do seems to fix the issue. What do you suggest I do?

That sounds like a raws conflict. Check your error log to see if it's throwing any errors at you (particularly about duplicate creature names).

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Cult of the Raven on April 14, 2009, 09:26:40 pm

yes. there was a dire wolf conflict.
Genning.....
yes, there are dwarfs, humans, elfs, goblins, and best of all, orcs. awesome.
now to have lots of fun.

thanks!

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: tsen on April 14, 2009, 11:07:06 pm

Working with a few minor additions to this mod as part of my own home-brew thing. I'll post it in a week or so after I have the bugs ironed out.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Qwernt on April 23, 2009, 03:49:45 pm

So, is there a way to turn down the fun?

My fort: 13 dwarves (1 good marksmen and 3 wrestlers in training), 19k total value - somehow attracts 18 Orcs and a Dire Wolf... I mean, 1k per individual that comes... it can't be worth the trouble to the orcs (other than kill dwarves that is).

I know I can keep them out with bridges, etc; but I am trying to run an Anti-Orc fortress without resorting to "bottle-up-n-pick-em-off". As such, I would like to modify how many are in an orcish battle group. Is this possible? is it the cluster_number? Or Litter_Size?

thanks

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on April 23, 2009, 04:21:11 pm

Quote from: Qwernt on April 23, 2009, 03:49:45 pm

As such, I would like to modify how many are in an orcish battle group. Is this possible? is it the cluster_number? Or Litter_Size?

Until the Army Arc or so, sieges will always come in 1 - 5 squads of 16 (15 normal + one leader), unfortunately. My initial suggestion for an anti-orc fort would be embarking with one or two trained (proficient weapon/proficient shield) sword and axe dwarves, training them as fast as you can, and building a defensive line that only allows one orc in at a time, to die in single combat with your more skilled military. Generous use of wooden spikes may also help, even if only to cripple their legs before they engage your dwarves.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Albedo on April 23, 2009, 04:47:54 pm

Quote from: Rysith on April 23, 2009, 04:21:11 pm

Until the Army Arc or so, sieges will always come in 1 - 5 squads of 16 (15 normal + one leader)

Is that true w/ the vanilla version as well? If so, good to know.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Qwernt on April 23, 2009, 06:05:12 pm

Well, back to the drawing board then.

thanks.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Neruz on April 25, 2009, 09:18:02 am

I highly suggest making a second Orc civ with Can_Speak on from the word go, because Orc traders are awesome.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Tiler on April 27, 2009, 04:34:19 pm

Whelp, for those that use Mayday or similar 16x16 tilesets, I threw together some graphics for the Orcs.

This actually hasn't been tested yet, so I don't know if I have everything set up correctly, but here you go. Change filenames as needed, of course. It's fairly rough around the edges, so if someone with more experience with this sort of thing wants to fix anything they see that's bad, for Armok's sake, do so.

(http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/9837/orcs.png)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: w4ldf33 on April 29, 2009, 08:27:10 am

Is it possible to entirely substitute gobos with the orcs?
If yes, what i have to do? :)

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Neruz on May 01, 2009, 04:44:32 am

Just delete the Goblin civilisation from the entities_standard.txt

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Walshy on May 01, 2009, 11:37:13 pm

I thought I was safe from the evil orcs behind my 15 rows of stone-fall traps. I really did.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Neruz on May 02, 2009, 02:26:12 am

Dontcha love [trAPAVOID]?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Skid on May 03, 2009, 03:34:39 pm

Well it isn't the orcs that got me this time, it was those freaky wolf spiders. I had completed the perimeter wall in the first summer when a pack comes charging at my fort and across the drawbridge. The lever was pulled just in time to dump the second spider in the moat, but the first makes a beeline for the deepest bowels of my fort. Epic battle ensues in an empty storage room, an axedwarf (My main carpenter), mechanic, and two dogs go down before a wrestler (craftsdwarf and furnace operator) manages to hold it down long enough for the last axedwarf to smash it against the wall and his war dog to tear it apart.

I'm still sealed in at the moment with two more spiders lurking out there. Only fun can come of this.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Kelbin on May 03, 2009, 05:06:58 pm

I been trying to make my own orc species, but i can't get them to war. (atleast that what it says on embark since there is no red line near their names)

Is there anything wrong here?

Entity:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Creature:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Raz on May 03, 2009, 05:50:48 pm

Replace [INTELLIGENT] with [CAN_CIV] and [CAN_LEARN]. [INTELLIGENT] implies those two, plus [CAN_SPEAK]. Because the current version is bugged (i.e. creatures make peace way too often if they have the ability to communicate), [CAN_SPEAK] often leads to peaceful civs.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Kelbin on May 03, 2009, 06:02:02 pm

Heh, it works, thanks alot.

So i'm guessing the reason goblins war so much is because of the snatcher tag?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Zaranthan on May 03, 2009, 10:23:29 pm

Aye. Babysnatchers are permanently at war with non-babysnatchers. Unfortunately, that tag makes them insist on trying to, well, snatch your babies before they'll bother sieging, and there's no way to bypass that stage. So you can either have guaranteed war with a non-speaking civ in the first summer, or guaranteed war with a speaking civ after a few years.

You can also add CAN_SPEAK after embarking, and that usually gets you a war with named orcs, but the timing is tricky, and by the time you find out you did it wrong, you've gone through the ever-exciting motions of starting yet another fort that won't go anywhere.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rockphed on May 03, 2009, 11:33:46 pm

When I added [can_speak] to my orcs, they decided to start trading with me. After two of their caravans came and went, I removed [can_speak], and they stopped coming altogether for a few years. I am perfectly fine with only killers and squad leaders having names, so I don't mind them not speaking.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Neruz on May 04, 2009, 02:03:12 am

We really need a [WARLIKE] tag, or perhaps a [ENTITY_ENEMY:MOUNTAIN] tag.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Raz on May 04, 2009, 09:56:03 pm

I'd rather have Toady fix the problem and not use cheap solutions like that, to be honest. Takes away the randomness.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Neruz on May 05, 2009, 05:07:03 am

Being able to set races as [WARLIKE] or [PEACEFUL] and being able to say "Race X will try to war with Race Y at any available opportunity" would be a perfectly acceptable solution. What's wrong with being able to set an entity type as being warlike, peaceful or having racial enemies? Those are all pretty standard fantasy tropes.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rockphed on May 05, 2009, 09:34:56 am

Personally, I would be okay with warlike and peaceful tags to determine how often an entity goes to war. I think Toady wants to have all wars arise from how the Civ's interact, rather than through forced interactions.

For instance, I suspect that, in the future, we will have wars started because a snatched child becomes a child snatcher, snatches the princess when she is almost an adult, and marries her shortly thereafter.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on May 05, 2009, 12:17:14 pm

[WARLIKE] and [PEACEFUL] would be good tags, I think, as well as finer control over how different entities handle diplomacy. Right now, civs are far too willing to forgive past wrongs and make peace, and never go to war over things other than ideological conflicts: There aren't wars over resources, plunder, honor, greed, or Because We Can. Wars that do start tend to end very quickly, either with the defender crushed or with the attacker giving up after a few losses and the defender not retaliating.

In my mind, Orcs are classic fantasy barbarians: Large, strong, tribal, fiercely loyal to each other, and wanting nothing more than to plunder the civilized world to prove its inferiority. They aren't the kind of group that would make peace with a human civilization just because some of their raids failed, they would be more likely to press on to avenge the fallen. They might accept a human surrender, though, assimilating the humans into their culture and using them to fuel their next conquest. The closest to that that I can come right now is removing [CAN_SPEAK], unfortunately.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Earthquake Damage on May 05, 2009, 07:29:26 pm

Quote from: Rysith on May 05, 2009, 12:17:14 pm

In my mind, Orcs are classic fantasy barbarians: Large, strong, tribal, fiercely loyal to each other, and wanting nothing more than to plunder the civilized world to prove its inferiority. They aren't the kind of group that would make peace with a human civilization just because some of their raids failed, they would be more likely to press on to avenge the fallen. They might accept a human surrender, though, assimilating the humans into their culture and using them to fuel their next conquest. The closest to that that I can come right now is removing [CAN_SPEAK], unfortunately.

I always thought they were intentionally designed as savage warmongers so players would have an easily identifiable enemy. If it looks like an orc, you can freely kill it without consequence. You don't have to consider the morality of your actions either, because the entire race is evil. They're an excuse for good old-fashioned hack'n'slash adventures.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: WorkerDrone on May 05, 2009, 11:02:30 pm

But the depth of a game starts to look fairly shallow when the means stop there.

Frankly, I think Rysith's application of why's and when's speaks to me in a better way, makes more sense, and makes for a better story.

And as Toady would say, its all about the stories.

Denoting a game to the generic 'Hack'N'Slash games would therefore make it uninteresting, and Dwarf Fortress to me, though sometimes frustrating, was never uninteresting to me.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Paranatural on May 06, 2009, 10:17:35 am

Damn Orcs. They run away just because you killed 27 of the 30 that showed up, the other three had mangled arms and broken hands and things like that. Frickin wrestler couldn't get 'em before they got to the edge of the map.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: WorkerDrone on May 08, 2009, 04:49:01 am

Thats why you have Marksdwarves ready to pick them off while your Sword and Axe dwarves finish whats left on the battlefield. You know. The ones slowly crawling, limbs hacked and slashed off, and eyes torn out across the battlefield.

You almost feel sorry for them, but then you remember they can't feel pain, and you chop off their heads anyway.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Nabobalis on May 08, 2009, 11:28:02 am

Can the files be dropped into any mod? Or would it conflict?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on May 08, 2009, 12:26:12 pm

Quote from: Nabobalis on May 08, 2009, 11:28:02 am

Can the files be dropped into any mod? Or would it conflict?

There have been some reports of Dangerous Wilds (I think) also having Dire Wolves. Removing them, or renaming them in their header bracket, should solve that conflict. That's the only one that I know of.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Nabobalis on May 08, 2009, 03:34:54 pm

Quote from: Rysith on May 08, 2009, 12:26:12 pm

Quote from: Nabobalis on May 08, 2009, 11:28:02 am
Can the files be dropped into any mod? Or would it conflict?

There have been some reports of Dangerous Wilds (I think) also having Dire Wolves. Removing them, or renaming them in their header bracket, should solve that conflict. That's the only one that I know of.

Thanks, I'm going to try with CivForge

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: ToonyMan on May 08, 2009, 03:48:23 pm

Heh, I never posted on this thread before. Odd. This mod rocks my socks. Period.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Grimlocke on May 09, 2009, 08:21:28 am

These orcs dont do well at glacial maps due to their nudity, especialy the wrestlers. They just suddenly drop dead from freezing.

It might be that my current fort is a bit colder then it should be, annimals keep dying as well, including the ones of the traders. Except that one mussox, its a realy tough mussox.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: warlordzephyr on May 09, 2009, 09:12:29 am

lol, the first orcs that attacked me got owned by my crossbow tower as they didn't bring any bows.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: warlordzephyr on May 09, 2009, 01:51:16 pm

however the second group to attack got in because of some stupid dwarves getting confused with the levers, i send out my hammer lords and champions with crossbows(legendary wrestlers+proffesional hammerdwarf+competant crossbow) and they killed alot but got destroyed by the macelord and swordmaster. The brave hammerlord Dismud lead most of the orcs away from my fort so i could have a chance to close the drawbridge. The orc macelord and about 3 others got in and killed my remaining hammerlord. I recruited my entire population (55ish) but they wheren't enough. finnally, when i was down to 10 dwarves, i disactivated my miner. Counterattacking with the rest of my recruits i bought enough time for the miner to hack through the wall between the main hall and a lava pipe. The fortress filled with magma.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: nirodragon on May 10, 2009, 10:43:41 pm

Hmm, I figured out why I thought I was having trouble with your orcs.

Another mod I use replaces them entirely.... Bah, fixed.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: mareck on May 11, 2009, 11:19:48 am

Very cool mod.
I am using it as a base for an idea i have....
Gonna make a few races.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: WorkerDrone on May 11, 2009, 03:21:27 pm

Quote from: warlordzephyr on May 09, 2009, 01:51:16 pm

however the second group to attack got in because of some stupid dwarves getting confused with the levers, i send out my hammer lords and champions with crossbows(legendary wrestlers+proffesional hammerdwarf+competant crossbow) and they killed alot but got destroyed by the macelord and swordmaster. The brave hammerlord Dismud lead most of the orcs away from my fort so i could have a chance to close the drawbridge. The orc macelord and about 3 others got in and killed my remaining hammerlord. I recruited my entire population (55ish) but they wheren't enough. finnally, when i was down to 10 dwarves, i disactivated my miner. Counterattacking with the rest of my recruits i bought enough time for the miner to hack through the wall between the main hall and a lava pipe. The fortress filled with magma.

His last thoughts.

"I wonder if there's any rum left..."

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: nirodragon on May 11, 2009, 10:08:02 pm

Well, I've found what seems to be a problem.

The latest orc siege showed up, all of them mounted on Beak Dogs (I'm sure it's your orc mod now, by the way, I made sure of it five times).

I sealed my fortress (no small feat), then had my marksdwarves stand on the walls and open fire.

After one beak dog was killed, the entire squad it belonged to bugged out. The second squad also ran away as soon as they lost a beak dog. No orcs were even injured.

Also, the *SIEGE* tag didn't vanish until they went off the edge of the map, so I'm guessing the beak dogs wussed out and dragged the orcs with them.

I'm putting [NOFEAR] on the mount creatures, since that kills off the whole wuss-out mechanic.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Neruz on May 12, 2009, 03:57:39 am

Quote from: WorkerDrone on May 05, 2009, 11:02:30 pm

But the depth of a game starts to look fairly shallow when the means stop there.

Frankly, I think Rysith's application of why's and when's speaks to me in a better way, makes more sense, and makes for a better story.

And as Toady would say, its all about the stories.

Denoting a game to the generic 'Hack'N'Slash games would therefore make it uninteresting, and Dwarf Fortress to me, though sometimes frustrating, was never uninteresting to me.

Truth, wars should definitely be based on actual civ interaction, but we should also be able to influence those interactions to a degree. I mean racism and religion are two major causes of conflict in our world; hell, "They look funny" and "They worship a different god" are two of the most common reasons to go to war. We should be able to say "These guys think these guys look funny, and thus don't like them very much."

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: WorkerDrone on May 12, 2009, 06:03:38 am

It would be even better if these reasons could happen in World Gen through the interaction between said two groups through out Legends.

And of course, it doesn't need to be stated that it would be awesome, among actual births in civs, soldiering in Adventure mode and Dwarf mode, skills in Adventure mode, and a myriad of other wonderful things that will happen throughout a persistent play through, and all that good stuff. Just not in a very close time frame.

Eh. Go figure.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on May 12, 2009, 12:34:01 pm

Quote from: Neruz on May 12, 2009, 03:57:39 am

Truth, wars should definitely be based on actual civ interaction, but we should also be able to influence those interactions to a degree. I mean racism and religion are two major causes of conflict in our world; hell, "They look funny" and "They worship a different god" are two of the most common reasons to go to war. We should be able to say "These guys think these guys look funny, and thus don't like them very much."

You forgot "They've got something we want" :P

Part of it is also that we can't set the "character" of each civ, so they all default to trying to solve their problems with diplomats, which hasn't always been the most popular of reasons. Previous defeats (and thus national pride) doesn't seem to play into it at all, either.

Clearly we need to get Toady a time machine so that he can have an infinite amount of time to work on DF.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: nirodragon on May 12, 2009, 01:58:18 pm

Quote from: Rysith on May 12, 2009, 12:34:01 pm

Clearly we need to get Toady a time machine so that he can have an infinite amount of time to work on DF.

I'm working on that now. It should be ready by yesterday.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: warlordzephyr on May 12, 2009, 02:31:40 pm

Quote

Quote
Truth, wars should definitely be based on actual civ interaction, but we should also be able to influence those interactions to a degree. I mean racism and religion are two major causes of conflict in our world; hell, "They look funny" and "They worship a different god" are two of the most common reasons to go to war. We should be able to say "These guys think these guys look funny, and thus don't like them very much."

You forgot "They've got something we want"

Part of it is also that we can't set the "character" of each civ, so they all default to trying to solve their problems with diplomats, which hasn't always been the most popular of reasons. Previous defeats (and thus national pride) doesn't seem to play into it at all, either.

Clearly we need to get Toady a time machine so that he can have an infinite amount of time to work on DF.

OILOILOIL OILY OIL!

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: dabbling builder on May 13, 2009, 05:40:48 am

hmm im about to play my first go with orc mod and before istarted playing i checked legends to see the destructive power of the orcs.
sad part was, a group of them was destroyed by ELVES and subsequently eaten. im wondering if the elves just got lucky or they started worshipping some horrible god giving them great power.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: WorkerDrone on May 13, 2009, 05:54:01 am

Look Dabbling Builder, any other day, I would have called you a heretic, but since your new, I'll cut you some slack.

YOUR FILE WAS CORRUPTED. NUKE THAT WORLD AND MAKE ANOTHER.

(Uh yeah, the RNG played in the Elves' favor I'd say. I wouldn't worry about that. There are some good events I've read in Legends, but mostly I've been seeing alot of battles that should have played out longer and bloodier.)

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rockphed on May 13, 2009, 10:37:17 am

Quote from: dabbling builder on May 13, 2009, 05:40:48 am

hmm im about to play my first go with orc mod and before istarted playing i checked legends to see the destructive power of the orcs.
sad part was, a group of them was destroyed by ELVES and subsequently eaten. im wondering if the elves just got lucky or they started worshipping some horrible god giving them great power.

That sounds like that chaos dwarf who, alone, defeated a couple of orc attacks. Then he counter attacked and destroyed them. Only this is Elves, so they needed a giant army to do what one dwarf could do alone. Also, Orcs eat people too, so maybe the Elves were just getting on the flesh-devouring bandwagon.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: WorkerDrone on May 13, 2009, 03:03:41 pm

Correction. The ORCS are getting on the flesh eating bandwagon.

The Elves, however useless vessels of elven meats they are, came first. And they ate the corpses of their fallen foes first.

NOW WE JUST NEED SOME DRAGONS THAT ACTUALLY WORK PROPERLY. Flying.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on May 13, 2009, 03:51:19 pm

Quote from: WorkerDrone on May 13, 2009, 03:03:41 pm

Correction. The ORCS are getting on the flesh eating bandwagon.

If they didn't eat it, it would just go to waste there on the ground. Plus, it's not like they are eating other orcs, is it?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rockphed on May 13, 2009, 04:31:22 pm

What I meant was that the existence of one race of effective cannibal maniacs made all races of cannibal maniacs slightly more effective. Also, the elves obviously were beating down the newcomers for edging in on their territory.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: dabbling builder on May 14, 2009, 02:43:20 am

oh on the topic of nuking the world, i was planning to build a massive magma system to burn everything outside ala boatmurdered, when the orcs came the first winter.
the dwarf caravan was scared off by a band of roaming monkeys, so the orcs saw fit to trade with me.

needless to say, i've genned up a new world

EDIT: i just figured out why they came to trade, didn't mod out [CAN_SPEAK], time for the third try!

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: WorkerDrone on May 14, 2009, 06:52:04 am

Didn't Rysith make a language file for the Orcs so you didn't have to do all that shit for them to have names?

Just plug 'em in with out the CAN SPEAK or INTELLIGENT.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on May 14, 2009, 12:26:32 pm

Quote from: WorkerDrone on May 14, 2009, 06:52:04 am

Didn't Rysith make a language file for the Orcs so you didn't have to do all that shit for them to have names?

Just plug 'em in with out the CAN SPEAK or INTELLIGENT.

Unfortunately, the language just means that when they do have names they aren't goblin ones. They still need a kill or [CAN_SPEAK] to get actual names, and having them not speak at least long enough to get them to go to war is still required.

I'm still trying to track down what exactly makes it safe to let them speak, since I've had embarks where I can immediately give them [CAN_SPEAK] and embarks where I can't. I suspect that it has something to do with world gen generating the events for the first year of the fortress, which can include peace treaties, but I'm not entirely sure yet.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Zaranthan on May 14, 2009, 12:48:34 pm

The safest bet would seem to be waiting for the first orc siege, then adding the tag. You'd have to put up with half a dozen unnamed wrestlers, but that's a paltry price to pay.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: WorkerDrone on May 14, 2009, 03:42:10 pm

It doesn't matter anyhow. The first batch of idiots are either just living meatsack target practice for your lone Marksdwarf, or they end up leaving the map because you don't show your face.

Next siege come, you might actually come out and FIGHT. :P

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: dabbling builder on May 15, 2009, 02:19:27 pm

Well first siege came in, crushed it through underhanded use supports and levers.

Second siege comes in, i try and drown it because i only have 14 dwarves vs their 35 orcs, the leader swims out of the pool, through the river, and up my well and proceeds to slaughter my fortress.

All in all, just what i needed from a mod, good job ;D

P.S. The orcs in this world managed to tear the elves to shreds, leaving many ruins in place, and only one group of humans survived in the world. The orcs seem to have regained their honor since the last group of pansies.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: jaked122 on May 22, 2009, 08:48:40 am

Orcs should only war against elves and humans.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: florian on May 22, 2009, 10:44:26 am

Can I butcher their corpses? I would like to make some Orc leather quivers.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: The13thRonin on May 22, 2009, 11:05:41 am

Has anyone managed to fix the friendly orc when reclaiming problem?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on May 22, 2009, 01:15:04 pm

Quote from: The13thRonin on May 22, 2009, 11:05:41 am

Has anyone managed to fix the friendly orc when reclaiming problem?

Unfortunately, no, since that's an issue with DF itself. There are rumors that they will go properly hostile during the first invasion, but I've never tested it.

Quote from: florian on May 22, 2009, 10:44:26 am

Can I butcher their corpses? I would like to make some Orc leather quivers.

You'd have to add allowing Dwarves to eat sapiants to the raws (and then regen), but it should work then.

In adventure mode, you may also be able to get orc leather quivers from the Elves if you give the elves leatherworking.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: jarathor on May 22, 2009, 04:03:44 pm

Quote from: Rysith on May 22, 2009, 01:15:04 pm

Quote from: The13thRonin on May 22, 2009, 11:05:41 am
Has anyone managed to fix the friendly orc when reclaiming problem?
Unfortunately, no, since that's an issue with DF itself. There are rumors that they will go properly hostile during the first invasion, but I've never tested it.

I was messing around the other day in DF, and I embarked in an orc fortress with the idea of collapsing all of their towers. Of course, they were all Friendly. When the first orc invasion came, however, all of them immediately turned hostile -I think that this would work the same way in reclaim mode too, but I'm not 100% sure.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: CJ1145 on May 23, 2009, 09:53:33 am

I'm starting to get scared of these guys just looking at legends. In one war, they outnumbered ELVES. That is a problem, considering they also drove the last Dwarf civ to live in a glacier.

This is gonna be so much FUN!

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Grath on May 24, 2009, 03:43:20 pm

Domas Shemzimesh Shasarzolak Onul: Legendary Wrestler, Legendary Swordsdwarf, Legendary Shield User, Professional Armor User. Singlehandedly killed 10+ Orcs during a siege. Mother of 9.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Akkristor on May 24, 2009, 10:56:53 pm

Quote from: WorkerDrone on May 14, 2009, 03:42:10 pm

It doesn't matter anyhow. The first batch of idiots are either just living meatsack target practice for your lone Marksdwarf, or they end up leaving the map because you don't show your face.

Next siege come, you might actually come out and FIGHT. :P

I normally have the walls next to my front door have fortifications dug into them, so i can not show my face and still kill 'em.

When they start to leave, i simply unlock the door and they run back.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Elvin on May 27, 2009, 03:18:51 pm

So I followed the instructions, and put the three files in the raws/objects folder. I then genned a world from scratch, and started my fortress. This is on 40d11, in case this matters.

I'm now in my 4th year, and not the slightest hint of an Orc. I have a population of about 80, I have my dungeon master but not a Baron yet...Any ideas as to why my fortress isn't dead yet? I had such a lovely water trap built too, my first one ever to actually work and not flood my entire fortress, that I was saving for the Orcs in the first winter...

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Grath on May 28, 2009, 10:59:17 am

Engraved on the wall is an exceptionally designed image of the nameless orc by Stakud Bidokrakust. The nameless orc is burning. The artwork relates to the heat-induced death of the nameless orc in Glorybattles in the midwinter of 205 during Ushykuquyjyvabato, 'The Dented Siege'.

Ah, magma flood traps.
(Engraving edited to place 'nameless orc' in where the missing name was. I don't care enough to do the tweaking needed for named orcs.)

Edit: Oh yeah, two more things I haven't seen before that I got with this fort:
1) Goblin siege short enough that I got an orc siege in the same season. It was still early [season] (forget which season) when the goblins were dead
2) Human siege after I'd traded with them several times. I think their caravan being attacked by orcs and having their diplomat killed by orcs was the cause for this.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: avari on May 30, 2009, 02:18:46 pm

I'm also having problems with the Orcs, namely that they don't show up :(

I just finished my third summer. Current population is (capped at) 50, wealth 300k, exported wealth 30k. The Orcs did show up in the embark screen with the "-----" marking. There can't be a goblin ambush in the way either, since the Orcs wiped out the goblin civilization during worldgen :P

I wonder if there's any way to figure out why they won't dignify my fort with a visit.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Byakugan01 on May 31, 2009, 03:28:10 pm

They do have acess, right? Trust me, they *will* pay you a visit sooner or later. Try trading alot all at once, that may help. Or getting a ridiculously valuable artifact.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Flying Carcass on June 03, 2009, 09:25:15 pm

I decided to try this mod in my latest fort and I must say, those orcs sure are tough! Twice orc sieges have torn through my base and annihilated my decently-trained military; the second time they occupied a large portion of my base for a long time, with my survivors scurrying about in unoccupied districts trying to acquire food, water, and saving other survivors. Fun.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Shima on June 04, 2009, 03:44:30 am

Orcs are good for me. They don't seem to like attacking as much as they should (IE, at all), but love to trade. Lots of meat and low-priced leather every couple of years, good stuff.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: woose1 on June 07, 2009, 02:59:35 pm

Bump just to download. Sorry.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on June 08, 2009, 01:53:07 pm

Quote from: Shima on June 04, 2009, 03:44:30 am

Orcs are good for me. They don't seem to like attacking as much as they should (IE, at all), but love to trade. Lots of meat and low-priced leather every couple of years, good stuff.

check for [CAN_SPEAK] in the raws, that seems to consistantly be what causes non-hostile orcs. Unless, for some reason, you like orcish traders.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Justyn on June 16, 2009, 02:55:09 am

I noticed something: I added this into my game, with the addition of the [babysnatcher] tag, and aparently, orcs have the same ideas on stealth (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0025.html) as Elan from the Order of the Stick.

Yeah, all the thieves had were bags.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Chariot on June 16, 2009, 03:20:40 am

If you check the 3rd link in my signature, there is a new full orc graphics set available.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Venatius on June 17, 2009, 04:21:51 pm

I'm pretty sure I have everything spliced in correctly (including graphics - hooray!). I did notice however that orcs don't have [SPEECH:orc.txt] Is this an intentional omission? I'd think they'd need this to be able to actually use the orcish language file, as I can't otherwise see any way for the game to make the connection between the two. But perhaps I'm overlooking something?

Also, moment of obnoxious pedantry on my part: Dire wolves should be "unbridled", not "unbridaled". Unbridled means they are wild and unrestrained. Unbridaled means they have not been involved with the female participant of a wedding ceremony. Well, okay, they should probably be both, but I don't think Toady's put in code for bridesmaids yet.

EDIT: I DID notice it's provided in entity_orc though. So, that answers that I suppose, but my question still stands. Or is speech in the creature tokens irrelevant for them since they'll never (if things are going as planned) stop to converse?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: carebear on June 17, 2009, 05:26:44 pm

Just curious, is it possible to edit the raws of the orcs to tweak them to my liking while they've already made their appearance in a DF game (or already generated in worldgen), without causing problems (error messages or whatever) when playing that fortress again after tweaking?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Shima on June 18, 2009, 11:55:07 pm

I got bored and did this, deciding that Orcs needed their own weapons.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: dogstile on June 19, 2009, 06:04:59 pm

oh dear god! these things are insane

i started off with 41 dwarfs (reclaim party gave me a stupid amount for some reason, so i made each squad specialise in one weapon)

so my dwarfs all go into martial trances and the like when i combat the orcs in the narrow tunnels (i hadn't even got an inside meeting area yet, it was all narrow corridors (2 by 2) and they ripped them apart, the only reason i lived was because my marksdwarfs choose that moment to come up behind the orcs and pepper them with bolts

these things are INSANE... i love you dude

oh, i started off with 41 dwarfs, finished with 22. i ran this alongside the civilisation mod and my dwarfs had the maxage taken off. the orcs came in the first summer, or winter, whichever comes first

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: chinkeeyong on June 19, 2009, 06:34:00 pm

Quote from: Venatius on June 17, 2009, 04:21:51 pm

I'm pretty sure I have everything spliced in correctly (including graphics - hooray!). I did notice however that orcs don't have [SPEECH:orc.txt] Is this an intentional omission? I'd think they'd need this to be able to actually use the orcish language file, as I can't otherwise see any way for the game to make the connection between the two. But perhaps I'm overlooking something?

Those files go in the data > speech folder, and are used when someone boasts of their conquests over a race. Hence dwarf.txt contains things like "whose tall tales of bravery were made all the more embarrassing by his height" and such. A creature without that tag simply doesn't have specific insults directed at them.

Quote from: carebear on June 17, 2009, 05:26:44 pm

Just curious, is it possible to edit the raws of the orcs to tweak them to my liking while they've already made their appearance in a DF game (or already generated in worldgen), without causing problems (error messages or whatever) when playing that fortress again after tweaking?

It's perfectly fine as long as you don't touch the entity file and don't completely remove anything. See the sticky topic in this forum.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Xanares on June 20, 2009, 02:50:15 am

Nice weapons Shima! I too did orc specific weapons - ranged as well. All metal though.

As I was testing enhanced damage, they are a bit .. lethal. None of them can be used by dwarves (min size 8.). I think the horned helm and shield can though.

Let madness ensue.

list of items:
- orcish butcher blade
- orcish great sword
- berserker axe
- orc gasher (axe)
- barbed spear
- dire pike
- orcish head splitter (hammer)
- spiked chain (gore)
- orcish flail
- spiked hammer
- staff sling w/ slingstones
- throwing spear strap w/ throwing spears

- orcish shield
- horned helm
- ring mail
- orcish greaves

item.orc file

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Entity changes

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Grath on June 22, 2009, 09:40:54 am

I have an interesting situation in my current Orc-mod-using Fortress game. I have a tame breeding pair of Dire Wolves.
I'm not sure if they'll actually give me Dire Puppies since they haven't yet, but thanks to the Elves bringing exotic animals I'll be able to defend against the orcs with their own mounts.

Edit:
Stray Dire Wolf <Tame> has given birth to dire wolf pups.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: catapult_fodder on June 23, 2009, 05:38:32 pm

So, I've noticed that in one world-gen all the orcs show up riding wolf spiders, while in others they never seem to have mounts. Anyone know what would cause this?

FYI the first one with spiders was a default world-gen, while later on I started increasing the volcanoes, savagery, and good and evil regions.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on June 24, 2009, 06:49:14 am

Quote from: catapult_fodder on June 23, 2009, 05:38:32 pm

So, I've noticed that in one world-gen all the orcs show up riding wolf spiders, while in others they never seem to have mounts. Anyone know what would cause this?

FYI the first one with spiders was a default world-gen, while later on I started increasing the volcanoes, savagery, and good and evil regions.

I could be because of the starting location of the Orc Civ that is attacking you.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Jurph on June 24, 2009, 08:49:21 am

Quote from: Grath on June 22, 2009, 09:40:54 am

I have an interesting situation in my current Orc-mod-using Fortress game. I have a tame breeding pair of Dire Wolves.
[...]
Stray Dire Wolf <Tame> has given birth to dire wolf pups.

Please tell me that you can train these to be War Wolves. If the orcs can train them to be mounts, then the dwarfs should be able to train them to be attack dogs... right?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on June 24, 2009, 09:03:14 am

Quote from: Akhier the Dragon hearted on June 24, 2009, 06:49:14 am

Quote from: catapult_fodder on June 23, 2009, 05:38:32 pm
So, I've noticed that in one world-gen all the orcs show up riding wolf spiders, while in others they never seem to have mounts. Anyone know what would cause this?
I could be because of the starting location of the Orc Civ that is attacking you.

Yep. Orcs will use whichever of the mount creatures are "available" to them, which means living within a world map square of one of their fortresses (I think...). Similar to the way that sometimes dwarves will have camels or muskoxen.

Quote from: Jurph on June 24, 2009, 08:49:21 am

Quote from: Grath on June 22, 2009, 09:40:54 am
I have an interesting situation in my current Orc-mod-using Fortress game. I have a tame breeding pair of Dire Wolves.
[...]
Stray Dire Wolf <Tame> has given birth to dire wolf pups.

Please tell me that you can train these to be War Wolves. If the orcs can train them to be mounts, then the dwarfs should be able to train them to be attack dogs... right?

Yes, dire wolves are trainable.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: irdsm on June 24, 2009, 02:56:42 pm

I hate giant wolf spiders. HATE THEM!!!

WARGBGBGBGBGBGBGLLLL

2 webshots seem to be capable of killing an entire defense force of 12. grrrr.

Just need a longer spike trap corridor is all....yesssss

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Martin on June 25, 2009, 05:45:17 pm

Ok, as some may or may not know, I've got Morul playing around with orcs on his way to being all around legendary, but he disposes of them a bit quickly. I've had as many as two squads of 16 hammer/pike on him with another squad of snipers shooting at him at one time and he wiped them all out without even a light grey wound.

I had thought I made them smaller in size when I embarked to make sure he didn't die right off but I checked the raws and I accidentally changed the wrong DF install. So right now mine are size 8, damblock 4, but upgraded to steel armor/weapons. Oh well.

In order to increase the difficulty so he spends more time fighting, what do you suggest I change? I know that both damblock and size are in the combat calculation, but I think damblock only impacts defense, where size impacts both. Is it possible to give them adamantine? That might actually do damage to Morul (2.5x more damage dealt), but I'd get the wealth addition to the fortress to keep the sieges coming, so it'd be worth a try. Or do you think I should just start cranking up size/damblock? Or is there something else I should consider?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Jurph on June 25, 2009, 07:06:10 pm

Quote from: Martin on June 25, 2009, 05:45:17 pm

Is it possible to give them adamantine? That might actually do damage to Morul (2.5x more damage dealt), but I'd get the wealth addition to the fortress to keep the sieges coming, so it'd be worth a try. Or do you think I should just start cranking up size/damblock? Or is there something else I should consider?

If it is, I would recommend adamantine armor and wooden or bone weapons. That way they have almost no chance of damaging Morul, but he has to work his beard off to get through them, too.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Martin on June 26, 2009, 03:12:26 am

Ok, I upgraded the orcs to size 10 and damblock 6. Morul still got through them without a scratch but when he took on two squads at once he got tired to the point of exhaustion - went unconscious right at the end with a single orc jumping on him for a while until he woke up and sent him flying. He was fine after a moment and then went off and clobbered another squad.

I've seen him tired before, but never exhausted, and unconscious isn't really the outcome I'm looking for. I think I'll mix up the stats some and see what happens.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on June 26, 2009, 12:30:15 pm

Quote from: Martin on June 26, 2009, 03:12:26 am

Ok, I upgraded the orcs to size 10 and damblock 6. Morul still got through them without a scratch but when he took on two squads at once he got tired to the point of exhaustion - went unconscious right at the end with a single orc jumping on him for a while until he woke up and sent him flying. He was fine after a moment and then went off and clobbered another squad.

I've seen him tired before, but never exhausted, and unconscious isn't really the outcome I'm looking for. I think I'll mix up the stats some and see what happens.

If you can get yourself access to dwarf companion, I'd suggest boosting their shield user skill. It should make it much harder for Morul to get through them, but not increase their damage to him at all.

You could also increase the block amount on steel to levels similar to adamantine. You won't be able to get them to use adamantine once you've started, but you can change the protection that steel gives to adamantine-like levels. It will mean that Morul's defence goes up too, but he's pretty much invulnerable anyway so I wouldn't worry about it.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Martin on June 26, 2009, 01:40:55 pm

Quote from: Rysith on June 26, 2009, 12:30:15 pm

If you can get yourself access to dwarf companion, I'd suggest boosting their shield user skill. It should make it much harder for Morul to get through them, but not increase their damage to him at all.

You could also increase the block amount on steel to levels similar to adamantine. You won't be able to get them to use adamantine once you've started, but you can change the protection that steel gives to adamantine-like levels. It will mean that Morul's defence goes up too, but he's pretty much invulnerable anyway so I wouldn't worry about it.

Actually, that last idea is a pretty good one. Morul is all adamantine, so boosting steel wouldn't affect him at all. I'll give that a shot. For the next siege I reduced the orc size to 9 but increased damblock to 7. Just curious to see how things change. Not sure if the exhaustion came from him attacking or him defending.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on June 26, 2009, 02:34:18 pm

Quote from: Martin on June 26, 2009, 01:40:55 pm

Actually, that last idea is a pretty good one. Morul is all adamantine, so boosting steel wouldn't affect him at all. I'll give that a shot. For the next siege I reduced the orc size to 9 but increased damblock to 7. Just curious to see how things change. Not sure if the exhaustion came from him attacking or him defending.

Most likely defending. Each attack by an orc will generate a shield block + counterstrike, which means that when taking on two squads he will likely be taking ten or twenty times as many actions per round as he normally does, which will wear him out pretty quickly.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Martin on June 26, 2009, 03:16:46 pm

Quote from: Rysith on June 26, 2009, 02:34:18 pm

Most likely defending. Each attack by an orc will generate a shield block + counterstrike, which means that when taking on two squads he will likely be taking ten or twenty times as many actions per round as he normally does, which will wear him out pretty quickly.

Well, that explains why Morul is skilling up so quickly. Now I just need a siege every season!

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Angellus on June 27, 2009, 04:08:51 pm

Ok, downloaded them, will remove trapavoid though, I like traplaying too much. It is addable after genning, not?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: ToonyMan on June 27, 2009, 04:10:44 pm

Quote from: Angellus on June 27, 2009, 04:08:51 pm

Ok, downloaded them, will remove trapavoid though, I like traplaying too much. It is addable after genning, not?

Yep.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Angellus on June 27, 2009, 04:32:26 pm

Dammit, forgot to remove :XD
Doing it now ^^

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Blargityblarg on June 29, 2009, 07:47:01 am

Playing minus [trAPAVOID] here, and having a wow of a time. I've got a whole outdoors complex set up, with a 7X7 drawbridge to keep out the orcs :D

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Daywalkah on July 05, 2009, 10:34:00 am

Playing with your orcs on steroids to help against messed up megabeasts. They stand a good chance so the world actually has a population for once... Good job on the orcs.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Angellus on July 08, 2009, 04:19:16 am

Ok, just reclaimed, orcs siege, gone fortress XD

Going to reclaim again XD

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: timmeh on July 27, 2009, 04:07:09 pm

How would a legendary wrestler with copper plate armor fare in a 1v1 situation?

At the moment, I've got about half of my fortress (~15 of the ~30 dwarves) as legendary wrestlers, and several that are learning to use a crossbow or axe.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: the Dregs on July 29, 2009, 08:06:26 pm

Is there a repack of this available with orcs and a decent tile set with orc graphics already installed? I'll mess it up if I try, I just know it.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Martin on July 29, 2009, 10:38:47 pm

Quote from: timmeh on July 27, 2009, 04:07:09 pm

How would a legendary wrestler with copper plate armor fare in a 1v1 situation?

Pretty well, assuming you can keep it 1x1. The challenge with orcs is that it pretty easily becomes 1x4 or worse, and then you'll have a problem, but wrestling is what they'll do the most of with orcs - just due to the squad size they'll pretty much always have an orc on them. If you can get them up in armor and shield skills (even a copper shield helps) that really helps a lot. It's hard to overstate the importance of shield/armor skill.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: timmeh on July 30, 2009, 01:09:48 pm

Quote from: Martin on July 29, 2009, 10:38:47 pm

Pretty well, assuming you can keep it 1x1. The challenge with orcs is that it pretty easily becomes 1x4 or worse, and then you'll have a problem, but wrestling is what they'll do the most of with orcs - just due to the squad size they'll pretty much always have an orc on them. If you can get them up in armor and shield skills (even a copper shield helps) that really helps a lot. It's hard to overstate the importance of shield/armor skill.

I've built an air-lock of sorts to allow me to control how many come in at a time. I'm working on getting all the squad commanders trained to use axes, but so far they're just dabbling, and already removed a recruit's head....

Thanks!

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: kurisukun on August 10, 2009, 09:18:55 pm

installed this. I've heard/read a lot about these, and figured I could take on the hoard with little/no problems.

*looks at his blasted bloodied destroyed fortress*

Wait... what happened? Why is my spleen all the way over there? Sweet jesus these things are NASTY!

I approve wholeheartedly. Thanks! I had a ton of fun (http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Fun)

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: NewoTigra on August 18, 2009, 01:48:39 pm

I actually had a 7 seasons siege at one point.
Orcs arrived in winter, then went away after a season. Interestingly enough another siege arrived at exactly the same time as the first ended.
Repeat x6

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: ToonyMan on August 18, 2009, 01:50:19 pm

Multiple sieges are always awesome. Happened twice in DeathQuest.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Coaldiamond on August 19, 2009, 08:54:52 am

Damn. Just lost my first fortress to an invasion. That never happened with the goblins.

These guys are a nice extra challenge.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: The13thRonin on August 19, 2009, 08:56:53 am

I notice people in this thread are fine with the [trAPAVOID]!

Over at the [DIG DEEPER] thread I get a lot of people requesting the removal of the aforementioned tag. I think that it fits quite well though.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Magua on August 22, 2009, 03:25:35 pm

Loving it.

So, I'm thinking about orc defense. They knock down doors -- great. They avoid traps -- great. But they can still be stopped by a simple drawbridge and dry moat, much less a sophisticated autodrowning chamber setup.

So I played my first orc fortress last night, and I had eight legendary military dwarves die to the orcs before I was even through the second spring. This is, in my mind, awesome, but I'm curious now: does anyone defend against the orc onslaught without using bridges/moats? Is it even possible to have a military only defense?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rockphed on August 22, 2009, 04:11:12 pm

Quote from: Magua on August 22, 2009, 03:25:35 pm

Loving it.

So, I'm thinking about orc defense. They knock down doors -- great. They avoid traps -- great. But they can still be stopped by a simple drawbridge and dry moat, much less a sophisticated autodrowning chamber setup.

So I played my first orc fortress last night, and I had eight legendary military dwarves die to the orcs before I was even through the second spring. This is, in my mind, awesome, but I'm curious now: does anyone defend against the orc onslaught without using bridges/moats? Is it even possible to have a military only defense?

At the end of a 30 year fortress, my champions wielding artifact weapons and wearing artifact armor managed to kill orcs without traps or bridges.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on August 22, 2009, 06:23:16 pm

The usual legendary crossbowdwarves/bow kobolds with meat shields make short work of EVERYTHING.

Doesn't matter how many orcs there are as long as they still got ammo.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Magua on August 24, 2009, 10:51:23 am

Ok. New question.

I got tired of seeing a lot of 'nameless Orc'. So, I added [CAN_SPEAK] onto the creature_orc.txt file on an already started fortress.

Now, though, I'm not getting orc sieges -- just orc caravans (my civ is listed as at peace with the orcs). Of course, I could remove CAN_SPEAK to undo this, but I was under the impression there would be a way to get both. Is there?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Martin on August 26, 2009, 02:09:52 am

Quote from: Magua on August 22, 2009, 03:25:35 pm

Is it even possible to have a military only defense?

You have to work up to it. Morul takes out 5 full squad sieges of upgraded orcs (steel armor/weapons, upgraded to size/damblock of colossi) solo, all melee, without a scratch. So not only is it possible, you can do it without risk to your army of one.

It just takes time. An army likely doesn't have much in the shield/armor skills by the 2nd year - and when you are wickedly outnumbered as tends to happen with orcs, job #1 is not getting hurt. If I were starting out again on an orc map with no other fixed defenses, I'd keep at least 1/2 of my fortress in the military and put everything into getting the best armor/shields on them possible - and have them focus on wrestling. That skills up fastest and when you are outnumbered you spend most of your time wrestling anyway.

But you'd need to keep grinding them up in skills and equipment. If you can get them into masterwork steel, it's probably all downhill from there.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Magua on August 26, 2009, 11:14:20 am

By year 5, I have a (non-marksdwarf) military force that can take out an orc siege without casualties. 52 military out of 96 dwarfs; 42 of them are champions. Steel armor and crucible steel weapons (using the Dig Deeper mod).

I did end up having to raise the drawbridge during an entire siege during year #2, though.

But now: orc siege arrives, champions are put on duty and stationed at the entrance. Orcs move closer, champions move closer....computer freezes for a few minutes....and then THE BLOOD OH GOD THE BLOOD ITS EVERYWHERE.

I did suffer massive -- and I mean massive -- sparring deaths / injuries for the first four years though. My regimen was:
1) Set new recruits to off duty, unarmed, plate and shield. (I didn't have any plate for most of this, so a lot of them ended up with leather armor and wooden shields).
2) When they reached legendary wrestler, give them a sword.

I ended up changing step #2 to hammer instead of sword. I'm not sure if the decrease in sparring injuries was due to using hammers, or if it was because I suddenly had a large amount of steel armor available.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on August 29, 2009, 02:18:25 pm

Quote from: Magua on August 22, 2009, 03:25:35 pm

So I played my first orc fortress last night, and I had eight legendary military dwarves die to the orcs before I was even through the second spring. This is, in my mind, awesome, but I'm curious now: does anyone defend against the orc onslaught without using bridges/moats? Is it even possible to have a military only defense?

As others have mentioned, sufficient numbers of champions and/or sufficiently skilled champions are definitely what you need to have a military-only defense. training early helps, shields help (both against the orcs and to prevent sparring injuries).

I tend to switch recruits over to their weapons as soon as they move from "recruit" to "wrestler", since I find giving legendary wrestlers weapons actually increases sparring accidents (a single "real" hit does much more damage after the attribute gains). I also don't find wrestlers that effective against orcs, since if you've got reasonable odds (2:1 orcs:dwarves, or so) you can kill a lot more orcs a lot faster with weapons than strangling each of them to death individually. Shorter battles mean less chance for someone to get in a lucky insta-kill on one of your dwarves.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Lord Dakoth on September 07, 2009, 03:14:12 pm

I actually removed [trAPAVOID] but only temporarily. I'm going to put it back once my fort gets into the third or so year, and I actually have some form of defense.

People in the DD thread were saying that orcs aren't smart enough to avoid traps.
But really, this mod here is a difficulty mod more than a "realistic" mod; really, don't be so anal about being realistic.

Great mod, btw.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Grendus on September 08, 2009, 07:11:18 am

Quote from: The13thRonin on August 19, 2009, 08:56:53 am

I notice people in this thread are fine with the [trAPAVOID]!

Over at the [DIG DEEPER] thread I get a lot of people requesting the removal of the aforementioned tag. I think that it fits quite well though.

[DIG DEEPER] strikes me a more of an immersion mod. There are lots of changes to everything from the stones to the creatures you face. Most players in [DIG DEEPER] aren't looking solely for a military challenge, they want a change that includes a slightly more difficult military arc. [ORCS] are designed to be a military challenge exclusively. Few mods are more powerful than the orcs (I think the only popular mod stronger than the orcs is the goblin mod). But I could be totally wrong, I play both mods and think they're both awesome.

As for defenses, I always embark with enough metal to make two or three suits of chain and enough leather to make undersuits. Personally I'd go with blunt weapons over swords or wrestling though, as they don't get stuck. Train wrestling to legendary first, obviously, legendary wrestlers have high dodge, stats, and counterattack a lot, but I've seen legendary wrestler/high master hammerer dwarves cut down half a squad on their own.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Beryllium on September 14, 2009, 11:22:14 pm

How would I get this to work with the 40d16 linux build?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Edzako on October 09, 2009, 04:24:09 pm

I had one ork invasions by th end of second year. My military by that point consisted of 16 legendary wrestlers with iron shields and just got their first spear practice - most of them was novice. When they met about equally sized or force in the field they took them out without a scratch.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Mindmaker on October 11, 2009, 04:44:29 am

I just had my first orc siege i fought off face-to-face.
They came in summer the secound year, with 8 Wrestlers and 8 Maulers.
I had 4 Chapions which have been training right from the beginning and 10 unarmed, unarmored wrestlers i just recruited from the last immigrant wave.
None of the orcs survived but i lost 7 wrestlers and 1 champion(which couldn't max out his skills due to spinal damage).

Since I send in my wrestler first, the survivors will be rewarded with orcish maces and are finally allowed to wear armor.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Daywalkah on October 11, 2009, 07:59:44 am

The Orcs have sieged me many times, so I always used the one military dwarf I had at the time. My Captain of the Guard fended of all the attacks since he was appointed Sheriff way back when. ~~Now if someone would be so kind and tell me how to upload screenshots~~ I'll put a few up.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Need_More_War! on October 11, 2009, 09:20:51 pm

This mod is great, there first siege leveled my fortess, very fun.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Huesoo on October 12, 2009, 08:24:43 pm

Well I removed TRAPAVOID because im still a noob and i caught couple orcs especially the one who killed my legendary ambusher/wrestler/swordsdwarf. I have no idea what to do with them I was thinking to add trAINABLE to the so I can have a bunch of tame orcs. What do you guys think?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Need_More_War! on October 12, 2009, 10:06:53 pm

sounds cool, would it be possible to have a trainer, train them into war animals?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: theevilmonk on October 14, 2009, 02:40:07 am

why is it that every time i kill an important orc he has 30 earing and amulets on him.. whats the point of that much jewelerry? three pages of elf leather amulets and elf bone earings? wtf

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Vester on October 14, 2009, 03:28:47 am

Those are bits of everyone he's ever killed.

Demons and Gobbos do it too.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Xanares on October 23, 2009, 10:24:37 am

I just had a goblin leader with a Hydra bracelet and on top of that one of the others had a shield with a picture of the slaying of it.

Current game has gotten to the end of orc and goblin leaders now, so it's a bit quiet. Last orc Siege was with their High Priest/Drunk hehe, doesn't get much better than that.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: alway on October 25, 2009, 04:38:36 pm

I decided to play with orcs w/o drawbridge cheating for once, and they killed my first fort out within a few years. I am now on my second try, and I am quite nervous... I embarked on a seemlingly perfect map: flux, lava, bottomless pit, HFS, river, and an underground pool. I couldn't ask for more features! Unfortunately, what the embark screen didn't tell me was, it seems there is not an ounce of iron on the map. Tons of copper and cinnabar, but no iron ores. I am currently training up an army of 8 wrestlers, but I will have no armor and no weapons for them... I'm scared. :'(

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Firnagzen on October 25, 2009, 07:16:42 pm

I took [trAPAVOID] off the orcs, too, but I promised myself not to use the conventional traps on them. So why'd I do that? So that my elaborate pressure-plate triggered traps work. Which is a whole lot more amusing.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Xanares on October 27, 2009, 11:26:50 am

You need weapons.. even if worst metal. You will get quite a bit of metal from the orcs.

I'm in 212 now. Started with making a huge moat and removing all access to site but from 2-3 places.

Here's my stats.

pop: 124 (cap at 101 due to fps hit, but they just keep making babies...! (25 kids... even if goblins took one and orcs killed 3)
army: 40 (7 archers, rest sword/axe and one hammer team)
animals: 210 (mostly caged, 11 wolves/dogs trained, some staitoned)

war status , orc assaults:
winter 201: 16 orcs, 9 killed (dwarves unscathed)
summer 202: 48 orcs, 26 killed (5 heroes died in battle)
autumn 203: 64 orcs, 37 killed (7 dead heroes)
winter 203: 80 orcs, 41 killed (no losses)
autumn 204: 48 orcs, 29 killed (1 hero died)
summer 205: 64 orcs, 42 killed (6 heroes died)
winter 206: 80 orcs, all killed (1 hero died)
winter 211: 80 orcs, 48 killed (5 heroes died - 3 children var 10 sq from 2 orc groups spawning point)

nuisance status, goblin assaults:
summer 206, 16/14
autumn 207, 48/20 (1 idiot died)
autumn 209, 80/30
spring 210, 64/30 (1 forgotten hero died)
winter 210, 80/43
spring 211, 80/33

other status, human assaults ("The Assault of Sharks"):
winter 206: 16/12 (1 idiot died)
summer 208: 32/22 (another idiot died)
(peace offer accepted to get some wood/metals)

Nice artifacts:
a turtle bone short sword
a steel chain mail
a pig iron war hammer
a turtle shell chain
an adamantine cage (with dragon bone)

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: MoonLightBird on November 03, 2009, 08:39:08 pm

Just a quick question. How long does it take for orcs to starve to death? I got a bunch locked in a room and Im waiting for them to die to get their shit.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Sphalerite on November 03, 2009, 09:56:47 pm

Invaders never starve. Your dwarves are the only thing that needs to eat.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Poojawa on November 06, 2009, 05:14:51 am

Alright, been playing the mod, but as it's really the first time for mass seiges, I've kept invaders off till I was established.

Hmmm.. though i think my dual watchtowers packed with 10 marksdwarves in 'em each and hammer/axe/mace lords could take 'em

With full steel :D.

Turn 'em on, first seige came about 3 months later, as well as an ambush of Monkeys....

And the marksmen cut them aaaaaall down... shooting up a mountian, so 80% or so of all the bolts were retrievable.

can't wait for more though

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Micro102 on November 15, 2009, 12:10:30 pm

I downloaded the stuff, but i don't know where to put them i found similiar creature/entiity files and put the orc creature and entity files next to those, but what do i do with the launguage file?

do i delete the old entity default file?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on November 21, 2009, 01:31:01 am

Quote from: Micro102 on November 15, 2009, 12:10:30 pm

I downloaded the stuff, but i don't know where to put them i found similiar creature/entiity files and put the orc creature and entity files next to those, but what do i do with the launguage file?

do i delete the old entity default file?

No, you should be able to just copy the orc files in without touching any of the rest of your files.

Quote from: Poojawa on November 06, 2009, 05:14:51 am

Alright, been playing the mod, but as it's really the first time for mass seiges, I've kept invaders off till I was established.

And the marksmen cut them aaaaaall down... shooting up a mountian, so 80% or so of all the bolts were retrievable.

Well, yes. Sufficiently powerful dwarves can take on entire orc sieges naked*. The trick is getting there with orcs showing up twice a year from the beginning. Groups of armored and trained dwarves tend to be able to take on orcs on equal footing, and six of so steel armored/weaponed dwarves can take on entire sieges. I'm hoping that next version I'll have the ability to get finer control over how skilled invaders are, and what quality their weapons/armor are, since (as the civ leaders show) that's really what's holding them back from challenging a late-game mature fortress. That and the current status of traps, drawbridges, and constructed walls.

*do not attempt except for large values of "sufficiently powerful".

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Lord Shonus on November 21, 2009, 09:23:23 am

What tags would I have to change around to reverse Orcs and goblins? I'd like the goblins to swarm early ant the orcs to show up later.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: The Architect on November 23, 2009, 04:41:58 pm

So, I wanted to congratulate the creator on what is probably the most popular mod of all, and one which has been included in many mods since its release.

Second, I have a question and a hugely entertaining story. The story first, which contains spoilers:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The question: I have heard orcs come riding wolf spiders at some point, and that it should amp up the difficulty for my goofing off, and give me something to have a lot of fun with if I manage to capture one. The problem is that I'm at 28 million in my 7th year with 143 dwarves (capped it at 130, then had kiddies) and all I am getting is the occasional local leader. Whats up? Am I missing something?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Xanares on November 23, 2009, 05:51:09 pm

He he nice one Architect! ;D

24 mil in 7 years? How the devil?

I think you only get the spiders and war elephants if you had them in the raws at game start and if they are in the areas the orcs attack from. Not 100% sure on that last one though.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Micro102 on November 23, 2009, 08:03:27 pm

Ok i just downloaded orcs several times, and am gwtting the message "One of the compressed files on disk has errors in it. Restore from backup if you are able."

It's not corrupted downloads so what is it?

EDIT: The source seems to be the language file... anyone know of anything? PLZ!

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on November 24, 2009, 11:03:54 am

Quote from: Lord Shonus on November 21, 2009, 09:23:23 am

What tags would I have to change around to reverse Orcs and goblins? I'd like the goblins to swarm early ant the orcs to show up later.

In raw/objects/entity_default.txt, find the section for [ENTITY:EVIL], and change (spoilered for size)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

	[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POPULATION:2]
	[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PRODUCTION:2]
	[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE:2]

Code: [Select]

	[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POPULATION:1]
	[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PRODUCTION:1]
	[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE:1]

Then, in entity_orc.txt you'll find a similar section, change those progress triggers to 2 each.

Quote from: The Architect on November 23, 2009, 04:41:58 pm

The question: I have heard orcs come riding wolf spiders at some point, and that it should amp up the difficulty for my goofing off, and give me something to have a lot of fun with if I manage to capture one. The problem is that I'm at 28 million in my 7th year with 143 dwarves (capped it at 130, then had kiddies) and all I am getting is the occasional local leader. Whats up? Am I missing something?

Wolf spiders are like beak dogs, the orcs use them as mounts if there are wolf spiders near any of their fortresses. Dire Wolves from from shrubland, moderate and cold forests, and tundra. Wolf spiders come from evil forests. Elephants come from jungles and tropical shrubland. Thus, you're much more likely to see mounted orcs (since beakdogs came only from evil swamps, which aren't common at all), but you're not guaranteed spiders. If you haven't seen any mounts yet, then your orcs probably don't have any of those nearby. Solutions include increasing the number of evil squares on future maps, as well as decreasing the number of civilizations and making the world gen longer (which gives each one more time and space to spread out in).

Quote from: Micro102 on November 23, 2009, 08:03:27 pm

It's not corrupted downloads so what is it?

EDIT: The source seems to be the language file... anyone know of anything? PLZ!

I'm not sure what the problem is there. If it's just you, I can privately send you the language file. If it's a global thing, I could reupload the mod.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Micro102 on November 24, 2009, 01:08:12 pm

Can someone download it and tell us if it's just me or not?

I also have a saved game so maybe that's it?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: The Architect on November 24, 2009, 09:38:55 pm

If the mod hasn't been changed within two weeks then it is not global. If it has, then someone will have to reinstall it. Depending on the answer to that question I may do so to answer the question.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: NewoTigra on December 03, 2009, 07:07:24 pm

Possibly derailing the topic here, but anyways;

I was reading through 'The Hobbit' again and I noticed how Tolkien himself refers to orcs in the book. According to him, basically, goblins, hobgoblins and orcs are interchangable, but usually used (in that order) to give quick reference to the size of the goblins.
i.e. Goblins were the smallest, maybe 4-5 feet, hobgoblins were around humanoid size, maybe 6-7 feet tall, and the bigger ones would be referred to as Orcs, probably 8+ feet.

T'was interesting to me :P

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Demolira on December 08, 2009, 01:08:27 am

Quote from: Micro102 on November 23, 2009, 08:03:27 pm

Ok i just downloaded orcs several times, and am gwtting the message "One of the compressed files on disk has errors in it. Restore from backup if you are able."

It's not corrupted downloads so what is it?

EDIT: The source seems to be the language file... anyone know of anything? PLZ!

I just tried the mod, and got the same error. I then discovered I placed the files in the Data/Objects directory, and not the Raw/Objects directory. Once I fixed that, it worked for me.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: FaultyLogic on December 08, 2009, 09:36:40 am

It works fine for me. Except that my dwarves keep getting brutally murdered, what's up with that?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: slink on December 08, 2009, 10:31:02 am

Quote from: NewoTigra on December 03, 2009, 07:07:24 pm

Possibly derailing the topic here, but anyways;

I was reading through 'The Hobbit' again and I noticed how Tolkien himself refers to orcs in the book. According to him, basically, goblins, hobgoblins and orcs are interchangable, but usually used (in that order) to give quick reference to the size of the goblins.
i.e. Goblins were the smallest, maybe 4-5 feet, hobgoblins were around humanoid size, maybe 6-7 feet tall, and the bigger ones would be referred to as Orcs, probably 8+ feet.

T'was interesting to me :P

I also did some reading, after I read here that the reason DF goblins are immortal is because they are Tolkien's goblins and not DnD goblins. Tolkien's goblins are corrupted elves, and therefore also immortal. One of the places I looked on the Internet said that Tolkien realized later that hobgoblins were the smallest rather than goblins, but since he had already written them as being the opposite that he left them that way.

Gary Gygax's bugbears are described a large, hairy goblins.

Apparently, the only civilized races my modded DF that did not derive from elves were dwarves, humans, kobolds, and frost giants. Everything else was varying sizes of goblins, so I stopped playing while I thought over whether I needed four flavors of goblin in my game.

After a couple of days I decided to go ahead and keep them, but I made hobgoblins one size smaller than goblins and gave hobgoblins finite lifespans with litters and faster maturing young. I figured goblins were the original corrupted elves and so were a little smaller but still immortal, as is true vanilla DF. I made orcs the same size as elves and left them as immortal, as being superior examples of the original goblin type. I made bugbears one size larger than elves, with a finite lifespan and litters, but left the maturation age as 12.

While I was editing things, I made frost giants giant-sized, doubled their maturation age, and removed them from their horses. Things of size 12 should not be able to ride horses.

I made them all babysnatchers so I could add the intelligent tag and still have them not come with caravans. I find it quite amusing to look in legends mode and see the orcs kidnapping from each other as well as from all the other races.

I kind of wonder why DnD needs Dark Elves when it's got all those corrupted-elf goblin types already available, but I suppose they had to circumvent Tolkien's copyright claims as they did with hobbits. Since Tolkien drew his material from folklore, I'm not sure how much can really be claimed, but that's not my problem.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Coaldiamond on December 08, 2009, 02:54:44 pm

UN-Derailment!

So I genned a world where the Orcs all have names, but didn't bother to remove the relevant tag when starting my fortress. Predictably, I get Orcish traders instead of Orcish invaders.

I have tried to anger them into declaring war by seizing all their trade goods every time and locking up their merchants until the madness sets in, but so far theft and murder have failed to spark a war.

Any suggestions on how to provoke these civilized Orcs?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Micro102 on December 08, 2009, 04:28:35 pm

Could that just be the extremly rare "~~goblins~~ Orcs are friendly" world gen?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: darkflagrance on December 08, 2009, 10:54:22 pm

Delete [Can_speak] from the orc creature, or replace intelligent with can_civ and [can_learn]

no regen needed

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Greg on December 15, 2009, 07:15:30 pm

Could using pregenerated worlds be the reason i have no orcs showing up on the civilizations?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Lord Shonus on December 15, 2009, 09:44:23 pm

You absolutely have to generate a world afeter adding a new race for it to show up, because civilizations are generated just like everything else. You can download a world generated with the mod, though.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Ivan Issaccs on December 23, 2009, 02:32:17 pm

How on earth do I survive this mod.

Fun as it is, 100+ orcs in my second spring with only 35 Dwarfs is pushing it a little.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on December 23, 2009, 05:01:01 pm

Quote from: Ivan Issaccs on December 23, 2009, 02:32:17 pm

How on earth do I survive this mod.

Fun as it is, 100+ orcs in my second spring with only 35 Dwarfs is pushing it a little.

I suspect you've only got 80 (5 squads of 16) at most, but...

Quote from: Alpha Centauri, Spartan Battle Manual

Superior training and superior weaponry have, when taken together, a geometric effect on overall military strength. Well-trained, well-equipped troops can stand up to many more times their lesser brethren than linear arithmetic would seem to indicate.

A dozen trained dwarves in iron armor with iron weapons will take down a squad of orcs, especially if you've brought a competent smith with you. Give them terrain to avoid being swarmed, and you can take them down from your first migrant wave or so.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Ivan Issaccs on December 23, 2009, 05:05:35 pm

Aside from not having found sufficient ore as of yet to equip such a squad I must say.
Gians are superior to Spartans.

Although, I'm by no means an expert could you point me in the direction of what tokens it is that makes the sieges so much more severe than Goblins. I'm looking to bring them up to more threatening level on my non-orc folders.

And what effect would adding the orc littersize tokens to the other races have?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Xanares on December 24, 2009, 07:40:50 am

Just wanted to say happy Orcmass in the orc thread. ;D

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on December 25, 2009, 02:25:57 pm

Quote from: Ivan Issaccs on December 23, 2009, 05:05:35 pm

Although, I'm by no means an expert could you point me in the direction of what tokens it is that makes the sieges so much more severe than Goblins. I'm looking to bring them up to more threatening level on my non-orc folders.

And what effect would adding the orc littersize tokens to the other races have?

Mostly, it's the PROGRESSTRIGGER_X:1, in combination with the lack of baby snatching and no CAN_SPEAK. LAck of speaking means they are always at war, progress trigger 1 means that they show up right away (IE before you've had time to assemble an army of unstoppable champions), and lack of baby snatching means that they start out with sieges rather than baby snatching and ambushing. Once they start, the sieges follow a relatively linear ramp-up regardless of other tags.

The Orc littersize was an attempt to make their world gen sites overpopulated and encourage them to take more territory, thus increasing the number of local leaders and mounts available to them. It's unclear how well it worked.

And, Merry Orcmass!

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Lord Shonus on December 25, 2009, 08:01:31 pm

When I added the littersize tokens to goblins, only about 250 survived worldgen, but there's six thriving "goblin" civs, composed of several thousand members of other races.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: SugaSuga on January 10, 2010, 09:27:13 pm

(I haven't read whole thread BTW)
You might want to add in the OP that stonefall traps dont hurt them, as I had like 20 and they ran right through them murdering my "defenses".
Then I recruited everyone and 12 dwarfes lived, though most are dying of thirst in bed because my river is frozen :)

EDIT: LOL spring JUST arrived and now they're dying of thirst

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: The Architect on January 10, 2010, 09:35:56 pm

They have trapavoid. It's displayed for all to see.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: SugaSuga on January 10, 2010, 10:12:38 pm

Im stupid, ignore that

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: The Architect on January 10, 2010, 10:32:55 pm

Quote from: SugaSuga on January 10, 2010, 10:12:38 pm

Im stupid, ignore that

Hey, didn't mean to put you down. It's an easy mistake to make, since almost nothing in vanilla has trapavoid. No civilizations have it.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: QuakeIV on January 13, 2010, 09:48:07 pm

I love this mod.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: NewoTigra on January 27, 2010, 08:06:04 pm

To up the ante a bit more, I decided to increase the size of all enemies, including orcs. For the most part I just x3 or added 15 or so onto it.

As such, when building up my military a small group of 8 goblins ambushed me. Size 21 goblins. I thought "Eh, this'll be fine" and sent a group of 4 champions at them. Each of said champions could probably wipe out a small army of regular goblins. 5 seconds later, all 4 champions were dead. The goblins were already inside the fort, and headed straight for the mass of civilians in the main meeting hall.
Naturally, I decided to go out in a blaze of glory, and activated all 70 military-capable dwarfs, and sent the remaining 4 champions towards the goblins.
The dwarves piled onto the gobbos, mostly just punching them or trying to wrestle them to death.
As you might think, since 4 superdwarf champions (legendary wrestler + another weapon) were killed immediately, this civilian militia was somewhat short lived.
In the space of 10 minutes, all but 9 of my dwarfs were dead, and those remaining were either dying or traumatized. They managed to take down 3 gobbos. And it was glorious.
Having spent 4 years building up this fort, nursing it and caring for the inhabitants, I decided to quit and savescum. Now 6 months on from that now non-existent encounter, a force of 16 Orcs have appeared, most of them armed to the teeth, each of them standing at a towering size 32. Which puts them bigger vanilla megabeasts. As such, I am currently employing a cunning tactic. Hiding and hoping they leave soon.
Maybe after another year or so of training my growing army will be able to hold their own against them. Maybe.

Tl;dr, Orcs be awesome, their punches make my guys asplode atm.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: ungulateman on January 27, 2010, 11:38:38 pm

BGHFA

I missed removing one natural ramp in my setup. (I decided to turn TRAPAVOID off, having a huge military is too difficult by the time orcs siege.) All the orcs poured in through it, past all the lovely stone-fall traps. My one marksdwarf got torn to shreds, before they turned and tore apart the six other dwarves.

Next time, I'm getting my stockpiles indoors quicker.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Thanshin on January 28, 2010, 02:49:34 am

Quote from: ungulateman on January 27, 2010, 11:38:38 pm

I missed removing one natural ramp in my setup. (I decided to turn TRAPAVOID off, having a huge military is too difficult by the time orcs siege.)

In Dig Deeper you get your first orc siege with the first merchant and migration.

You just need better traps.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: ungulateman on January 28, 2010, 03:29:15 am

Eh, I've heard stories of them turning up before immigration, and for whatever reason my military train rather slowly - normally, about half a year for champion wrestler, than one and a half to two years for shield / armor / weapon.

So yeah, fancy traps with magma / water wasn't feasible, with no visible magma and the river on the other side of the map.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Spectre on March 07, 2010, 08:48:46 am

I dont know if this came up before, but I just got a orc caravan.
I added [CAN_SPEAK] after I started my fort. Any idea how this is possible?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Neruz on March 07, 2010, 09:38:35 am

Quote from: Spectre on March 07, 2010, 08:48:46 am

I dont know if this came up before, but I just got a orc caravan.
I added [CAN_SPEAK] after I started my fort. Any idea how this is possible?

It happens sometimes. The best way to ensure it doesn't happen is to add CAN_SPEAK after your first encounter. But even then sometimes it happens.

Quote

To up the ante a bit more, I decided to increase the size of all enemies, including orcs. For the most part I just x3 or added 15 or so onto it.

As such, when building up my military a small group of 8 goblins ambushed me. Size 21 goblins. I thought "Eh, this'll be fine" and sent a group of 4 champions at them. Each of said champions could probably wipe out a small army of regular goblins. 5 seconds later, all 4 champions were dead. The goblins were already inside the fort, and headed straight for the mass of civilians in the main meeting hall.
Naturally, I decided to go out in a blaze of glory, and activated all 70 military-capable dwarfs, and sent the remaining 4 champions towards the goblins.
The dwarves piled onto the gobbos, mostly just punching them or trying to wrestle them to death.
As you might think, since 4 superdwarf champions (legendary wrestler + another weapon) were killed immediately, this civilian militia was somewhat short lived.
In the space of 10 minutes, all but 9 of my dwarfs were dead, and those remaining were either dying or traumatized. They managed to take down 3 gobbos. And it was glorious.
Having spent 4 years building up this fort, nursing it and caring for the inhabitants, I decided to quit and savescum. Now 6 months on from that now non-existent encounter, a force of 16 Orcs have appeared, most of them armed to the teeth, each of them standing at a towering size 32. Which puts them bigger vanilla megabeasts. As such, I am currently employing a cunning tactic. Hiding and hoping they leave soon.
Maybe after another year or so of training my growing army will be able to hold their own against them. Maybe.

Tl;dr, Orcs be awesome, their punches make my guys asplode atm.

Size is by far the most important combat statistic, as it's a flat damage reduction that is not affected by critical hits (unlike all other forms of damage reduction such as armor and damblock) applied to anything smaller attacking you, and a flat damage increase when attacking something smaller than you.

Basically, the absolute best way to make a creature more dangerous is to make it biggerer.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Huesoo on March 07, 2010, 09:45:30 am

Will this be updated for the next release?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: The Architect on March 07, 2010, 12:01:03 pm

I think it will be very important to see how challenging the next version is before we jump to inventing new races to make it tougher. The current combat system just isn't a challenge, even with Orcs or other things to make it as tough as we can. It will be quite a large endeavor to write RAWs for the next version and that isn't something people will be jumping into lightly.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Zangi on April 02, 2010, 12:56:01 pm

>.> I'm gonna make Orcs based on yours for the new version, for personal use.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: arghy on April 07, 2010, 01:12:53 am

Has anyone made this compatible with 2010? if they have can they throw in some underground orcs to?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: The Architect on April 07, 2010, 01:24:46 am

Wow, chill on the mod-happiness. There are plenty of new options and new enemies to fight, so whats the rush here?

Nothing is going to happen until we have a stable version of the game. Enjoy the new features! Enjoy the increased difficulty! There is no need for orcs anymore. The game has natural difficulty without them, and due to the current bugs you can't even fix minor wounds on your dwarves anyway.

Orcs were to give us something worth fighting in the last version. They served their purpose, and now they have none. Their only value now is nostalgia. Let's wait and see what is needed before shoving out the next half-formed orc mod. There's no point in half-assing it.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Neruz on April 07, 2010, 01:25:21 am

DF2010 so does not need Orcs.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: arghy on April 07, 2010, 01:40:30 am

Bah! i sit 2 years with nothing more then a half assed wall and door maybe some cage traps. I miss the days when my dwarves screamed at each other to get a wall and moat built on embark. I miss the carnage and fear the orcs inspired--no matter what the new version throws at me none of them come close to the wonderful orcs.

The underground is a joke compared to the orcs--even the titans dont come close to the constant sieges of 20-30 orcs every season. I remember being forced to up their populations because they would expend their entire local population and eventually stop sieging. I love the challenge that orc mod brought and before i event genned a new world with 2010 i edited the gobbo raws to increase their birth rate and that was not enough!

I dream of breaching a cavern then getting ambushed by dark orcs before i get the defenses built forcing me to build expansive gate houses before i breach anything. My army cant die fast enough to get the desired attrition rates i so crave.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: The Architect on April 07, 2010, 01:50:24 am

Don't noob around with orc mods.

Use the new features. In your case, up the cavern difficulty in world generation, or just try new embarks. It's a flat-out lie that the new underground is generally not very dangerous. As with everything, worldgen caverns are set to "newb" settings to prevent driving new and/or incompetent players more crazy.

Lastly: if you found the orcs or anything else --modded or otherwise-- in the last version to be truly difficult, you've got problems. Orcs were pitiful compared to a well-trained and outfitted dwarf. Only now do you actually need to take threats seriously, with the new combat modeling and injury modeling. You don't need to be sieged by 20-70 orcs right on embark to be in danger. A half-dozen goblins are more dangerous to your difficult-to-train normal troops now than 70 orcs to 2 (easily attained) champions in the last version.

You're just making an appeal to nostalgia. One that's very out-of-place, in my opinion. Rushing yourself with enemies at early stages was the worst, most half-assed way to add difficulty imaginable. It's on par with ruining an RPG for yourself by grinding. The only reason we did it is that we lacked the ability to fix the combat system --which Toady has now done.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: arghy on April 07, 2010, 02:04:42 am

How do i set caverns to hard mode? i see abunch of vague settings akin to volcanism which i barely understood.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Deon on April 07, 2010, 02:10:41 am

Quote

The only reason we did it is that we lacked the ability to fix the combat system --which Toady has now done.

Actually, the combat system is quite broken now. Toady said that he made a lot of typos (like stabbing attacks going much less deeper than slashing attacks).

Currently there are two obvious errors:
1) Slashing/bashing attacks go deeper than stabbing attacks. - Can be fixed via raws editing
2) Smaller area attacks with the same force cause LESS damage than larger arrea attack with the same force. - Can't be fixed via raws.

So, while the combat system is quite broken, still it's much better than previous instakills and all-owning wrestlers, so I am pretty happy with it. Now you don't need 1:6 melee damage orcs to solve some difficulty problem.

However orcs as castes of goblin civ/another race are still viable for modding. Why not? :P

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: CaptApollo12 on April 07, 2010, 08:35:06 pm

Screw that I want Orcs sieging me from the front and demons from the bottom :)
I had no clue how to mod in civs in 40d and so im completley lost now.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Martin on April 07, 2010, 09:04:03 pm

Quote from: Neruz on April 07, 2010, 01:25:21 am

DF2010 so does not need Orcs.

EVERYTHING needs orcs.

But yeah, let's get the combat unbugged and the crashy bits taken care of before cranking the difficulty to 11. Though, on that day, I second the vote for vote surface (uruk-hai) and subterranean (standard) orcs, with appropriate differences in toughness, damage, and equipment, as well as mounts and pets and whatnot. Lordy, am I excited about the possibilities of this version.

I wonder if we can make a workshop that creates uruk-hai from mud and slime and junk?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Neruz on April 07, 2010, 09:08:40 pm

Technically the surface Orcs should be weaker than the UG ones, since that's how DF's balance goes; the deeper you dig, the more dangerous shit gets.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: arghy on April 07, 2010, 10:33:42 pm

I think the UG orcs should be in a state of constant ambush so you wont see them till their right on you. Its a damn shame you cant make them have underground orc fortresses but if you make them like the animal people but breed 10x faster so their not a civ but rather just critters so they can siege you from underground. Imagine you've secured your cavern systems and feel pretty secure with a strong dwarf army then all of the sudden you notice a sudden drop of FPS but cant see anything--your scanning the surface waiting then all of the sudden you see the message 'urist cancels task interrupted by orc' and watch as 30 orcs come out of ambush in your cavern system. Throw in special large orcs that cant wield weapons but can destroy buildings so they'll rip doors off their hinges to get to the juicy dwarves behind them.

Dear god SKAVEN CAN WE ADD THEM TO? there is no safety in the earth there is only death!

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Zangi on April 07, 2010, 10:50:33 pm

The biggest problem is that the chance of UG Orcs being where you embark is... low.
The good news is you can make like +10 different breeds of UG Orcs... You may get more then 1 type of UG Orcs in a single location.
The bad news is that some of these UG Orcs may be friendly and on your side.

Well, I do have my own working version of Orcs... but they are sissies compared to this mods' Orcs, but still a little bit stronger then the other races.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Neruz on April 08, 2010, 01:26:38 am

Honestly, the animalpeople riding giant bats and giant cave swallows, flying around bombarding my dwarves with posioned darts and launching aireal assaults provide move than enough challenge.

When i've finally got everyone kitted out in full plate and killed off that Cave Dragon, it's just time to dig a little deeper and hunt for fun.

Now fun, let me tell you, does not need more difficulty. If you think the game is too easy at the moment, just dig down to find some fun.

Or an Undead Fortress; found one of those, FUN.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Lofn on April 08, 2010, 04:38:11 am

Quote from: arghy on April 07, 2010, 10:33:42 pm

Dear god SKAVEN CAN WE ADD THEM TO? there is no safety in the earth there is only death!

I've got the working bones of a skaven mod on the boil. Should I post it? It's not finished yet but it adds the greater clans and warpstone to a certain extent.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: arghy on April 08, 2010, 01:41:31 pm

Well if it works and allows ratkin to siege me in great numbers with rat orges and plague bearers then hell yes i would totally use that mod. How would you make warpstone work? i could see it as an awesome trigger for sieges like you uncover a large cluster then they begin to siege you.

Animal people arent enough esp when they come in small numbers and dont come back when slaughtered. We need a large variety of enemys so instead of having just a single siege a year you have near constant sieges as your enemys queue up to destroy your fort. If you play right and dont use traps only dwarf military then you'll have epic tales in no time.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: warlordzephyr on April 08, 2010, 03:07:38 pm

WOO! Time for my massive knowledge of Tolkien's world of Arda (which middle earth is in) to be usefull! The Orcs where created by Melkor (of whom sauron was luitenant) by toururing elves and generally making them evil. When Melkor was defeated the Orcs where imprisoned underground. So basically it would be excellent with the new caverns system to make the Orcs a mostly underground race, also it would make sense for some to be friendly to you cos you freed them.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: arghy on April 08, 2010, 06:53:15 pm

I dont think you can make civs live underground but then again i remember something about animal people villages--multiply that by 60 and change them to orcs.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Neruz on April 08, 2010, 10:35:56 pm

Quote from: arghy on April 08, 2010, 06:53:15 pm

I dont think you can make civs live underground but then again i remember something about animal people villages--multiply that by 60 and change them to orcs.

The Animalman 'villages' are already full civilisations, they even send invaders into your fort via the map-edge caverns.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: arghy on April 09, 2010, 12:03:15 am

Oh dear god DEAR GOD YES

Multiple UG orcs as well as day orcs on the surface--get rich then huddle behind your walls as the horrors assail your fortress.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: arghy on August 06, 2010, 06:15:06 pm

Hey combats pretty unbuggy and i'm getting bored any chance of skavens and orks?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: darkflagrance on August 06, 2010, 07:34:49 pm

Quote from: arghy on August 06, 2010, 06:15:06 pm

Hey combats pretty unbuggy and i'm getting bored any chance of skavens and orks?

You could go check out the Fortress Defense Mod for more variety and new enemies.

Quote from: The Architect on April 07, 2010, 01:50:24 am

You're just making an appeal to nostalgia. One that's very out-of-place, in my opinion. Rushing yourself with enemies at early stages was the worst, most half-assed way to add difficulty imaginable. It's on par with ruining an RPG for yourself by grinding. The only reason we did it is that we lacked the ability to fix the combat system --which Toady has now done.

What do you mean early enemies are not awesome? I guess some people don't appreciate the feeling of being on the edge with only the first two migrant waves of dwarves, just barely holding on against the waves of enemies, watching the population numbers slowly decrease to attrition from the constant sieges, forcing mothers and farmers to take up weapons when your main warriors become crippled, all ending in either sweet relief when the next migrant wave pops up to relieve your exhausted dwarves, or when the merchants together with your militia barely hold off the invaders at the front gate, or when generations later, you've stabilized the fort and built a decent military, and now all that remains of those hard days are long, empty halls lined with coffins and a ledger of names of the deceased.

Some people not only like building immense, map-spanning monuments, but also watching epic fights between hundreds of soldiers within them.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: arghy on August 06, 2010, 08:41:24 pm

Dear god yes i line my epic halls with the dead and theres nothing like running out of space because theres just to many dead.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on August 20, 2010, 06:36:20 pm

Just thought I'd drop in to say that I've finally moved on to the new version (having finished up my previous 40d fort), and that I will be making an Orc mod for DF2010. That said, combat (and training, and wound recovery, and etc.) have all changed quite a lot from 40d, and so balancing it is proving a bit difficult.

I'm fairly sure, for example, that it's not possible to take on the first Orc siege if they are progress trigger 1: My test for that is embarking with six military dwarves, an armorer, and the materials to make everyone full suits of armor, which is looking like it's not viable. Both the armored war elephants and giant wood spiders needed a bit of a revamp (oddly enough because they weren't being deadly enough - the new skin/weapon interactions seem to make unarmored creatures very vulnerable), and while I can test a certain amount of it in the object testing arena (THANK YOU TOADY!), some things really can't be tested other than by getting thirty orcs to attack a forty-dwarf fortress.

To reiterate: There will be DF2010 Orcs. I will be doing my best to balance them, so that they are a challenge to experienced combat players but not insurmountable with proper preparation, leading to rewarding fights and epic tales. Hopefully, I'll be able to release a beta version in the next month or so, especially as I become more familiar with the new tools at my disposal.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on August 29, 2010, 06:48:07 pm

Some notes on the new combat system, with which I'm becoming intimately familiar:

- Since things bleed really slowly, or seem to (I've had Orcs wandering about with multiple opened arteries and not bleeding out), no pain sense makes Orcs much harder to engage in combat.

- Skill level and numbers seems to play a much larger role (as of 31.10) than anything else. Given ten somewhat-trained, steel-clad axedwarves against a swordsorc squad, they all died horribly, primarily due to nerve damage etc. making them drop their weapons and shields. The only dwarves that were able to engage with even moderate success were the two legendary miners, who a) engaged single orcs and b) were able to parry and counterstrike a lot. Despite that, the orcs really needed to be hacked apart to die; It seems like generally things take a longer time to die, and with no pain it takes a long time to remove orcish combat effectiveness. It might also be partially due to the new attribute system, which effectively prevents super-agile dwarves from striking with impunity.

- Since Orcs are now progress trigger 2 (roughly 20 dwarves), I'll see if they are realistic to engage in a fortress that embarks on flux and does nothing but crank out weapons and armor, then recruits all migrants.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill
Post by: Rysith on September 04, 2010, 01:41:13 am

DF 0.31.10 orcs can be found here (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3055).

I had tried to keep them as similar to the 40d orcs as I could, but because of the changes in 31.x (particularly the lack of surface magma and new complexities of the training, combat, and healthcare system), there ended up being some notable changes:

- Orcs will not lay siege to your fortress until you have roughly twenty dwarves, approximately your first "real" migrant wave. In most cases, this means the beginning of the second year.
- Orcs now use metals up to bronze
- Orcs will now use whatever animals are available, not just war elephants, beak dogs, and giant wood spiders. Thus far, I've seen camels, alligators, and grizzly bears as orcish mounts.
- Orcs are no longer trapavoid. That doesn't mean that I don't encourage you to fight them without resorting to trap corridors.

Spoiler: Orc Mod philosophy (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Orc combat tips (click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
Post by: Jayce on September 04, 2010, 05:34:01 pm

I kinda like the idea of if you pick an evil location creatures like zombies and werewolfs will attack you instead of goblins.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
Post by: ToonyMan on September 04, 2010, 05:35:19 pm

Ah Orcs, good memories.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
Post by: Still Standing on September 04, 2010, 08:02:42 pm

I installed this mod, added some graphics to it, hoping to get a nice challenging war game. The only problem is I cannot seem to gen a world that has an Orc civ. I have gened about a dozen worlds of various sizes, but I just can't seem to get them to show up on the civ screen, even at year 1. I CAN get them to spawn just fine in the Arena. What do you think I am doing wrong?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
Post by: Birdy on September 04, 2010, 08:26:22 pm

Yeah, Mine's doing the same, I'm going to take a look at the code and try to figure out what's wrong.

I've missed These damned Orcs, and now that the work's been done, I need them! :P

EDIT: I just found the Problem. The new name for the "ORC" is "ORC_ORC" not just "ORC" so just go into the "ENTITY_ORC.txt" and change the "Creature_name:ORC" to "ORC_ORC".

Edit2: I also changed it so the Orcs feel pain, but everyone of them is the toughest the game allows, It makes it a bit more balanced as it took too long to kill and orc before. I also made every orc able to destroy buildings, what orc wouldn't want to break shit once it's inside? :P

Also, I play as Humans, and have a keep where the burrow is set up, and outskirts are the rest of the town, and when they come in they topple over furniture in houses, oooh goodie! ;D

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
Post by: Still Standing on September 04, 2010, 10:30:57 pm

I figured it out after about 4 hours of trying. Birdy posted it 4 minutes ago! I should have gone to sleep and checked back in the morning. :p

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
Post by: Birdy on September 04, 2010, 11:39:29 pm

Quote from: Still Standing on September 04, 2010, 10:30:57 pm

I figured it out after about 4 hours of trying. Birdy posted it 4 minutes ago! I should have gone to sleep and checked back in the morning. :p

yeah, heh, I had the same problem with setting up the graphics for them, so that gave me the Idea to check. (Which BTW we are using SPHRs goblins, they look a bit like orcs, and they're pretty good looking!)

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
Post by: Osdeath on September 05, 2010, 05:13:57 am

General query, i was under the impression the [CAN_CIV] Tag was needed for a creature to become a civ, yet orcs do not have this, has that tag become obsolete?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
Post by: Still Standing on September 05, 2010, 05:42:34 am

CAN_CIV seems to be a relic of 40d and previous versions. CAN_LEARN now allows them to civ.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
Post by: Still Standing on September 05, 2010, 12:49:33 pm

Since I am using Ironhands graphics pack I am using the Goblins from the mod by Phobeus to represent my Orcs. Would you like me to put together a zip file that includes the Entity changes we made further up the page, as well as the Orc graphics (I would of course have to ask for permission from Sphr first)?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
Post by: Rysith on September 06, 2010, 05:30:01 pm

Quote from: Still Standing on September 05, 2010, 12:49:33 pm

Since I am using Ironhands graphics pack I am using the Goblins from the mod by Phobeus to represent my Orcs. Would you like me to put together a zip file that includes the Entity changes we made further up the page, as well as the Orc graphics (I would of course have to ask for permission from Sphr first)?

That would be great, now that I'm back from Labor Day, although I've already fixed the orc_orc issue and replaced the file on dffd. I remember some name clashes last version, so thought I'd be a good modding citizen and take my own namespace before publishing it, then forgot to change that reference.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
Post by: Deon on September 09, 2010, 03:33:30 pm

I'm currently working on an Orcish full graphic set with all professions (suited for Ironhand so they are 18x18) so if you want them I can share when I'm done.

(http://xmages.net/storage/10/1/0/6/c/upload/e1b653d4.png)
(http://xmages.net/storage/10/1/0/7/c/upload/3cc3060f.png)

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
Post by: Still Standing on September 09, 2010, 03:34:05 pm

I just saw those and was coming to write in here. Guess I was too late!

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
Post by: varnish on September 11, 2010, 03:25:40 am

Ah, nice. Some of my fondest DF memories revolve around the old orc mod. (See Greatbridge of Oceans, etc). As Rysith said, (I think), it's not how the orcs attack you; it's that they do it so soon. It really gives some meaning to the mid-game aside from exploring the caverns. It gives you something to do/prepare for, and so on.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
Post by: schussel on October 04, 2010, 11:29:04 am

awesome mod .. orcs somehow time their attacks when elves are around^^ got the 3rd of their caravans slaughtered by them on my doorstep for free stuff :)

the only thing is .. is there a guide or someone to help how to get custom graphics to work with it .. i tried every pack and instruction listed here but dont get beyond the ugly wagonwheel icon for orcs (playing 0.49 ironhand pack)

anyone may give me a hint or files :) (pm would be ok :)

PS: i found an odd behavior .. with the .15+ revert to goblin raids goblins seem to freeze in awe when they ambush when orcs are present .. they just stand where they emerge and do nothing :)

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
Post by: ninja137 on October 17, 2010, 09:28:44 pm

I seem to be having a bit of trouble making this work, then again im new to modding. When I put this into the RAW no orcs ever show up in worldgen. Can anyone please tell me what I might be doing wrong?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
Post by: Lycaeon on January 15, 2011, 11:08:09 pm

With some additional modding involving castes it's possible to combine orcs and goblins into a single race. Each will retain their unique strengths and creature tiles (g for goblins and O for orcs), with the ratio of 10 goblins to each Orc, as they are technically the same species according to some sources. I believe this combination also depicts Orcs as taskmasters for the larger numbers of goblins. The ratio can be adjusted to increase the challenge.

Creature_standard

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[CREATURE:EVIL]
   [NAME:evil:evil:orc]
   [EVIL]
   [INTELLIGENT][LIKES_FIGHTING]
   [CANOPENDOORS]
   [BONECARN]
   [PREFSTRING:terrifying features]
   [PREFSTRING:savagery]
   [NOCTURNAL]
   [PERSONALITY:ANGER:25:75:100]
   [PERSONALITY:IMMODERATION:50:75:100]
   [PERSONALITY:EXCITEMENT_SEEKING:0:60:100]
   [PERSONALITY:CHEERFULNESS:0:40:90]
   [PERSONALITY:ALTRUISM:0:25:50]
   [PERSONALITY:MODESTY:0:40:90]
   [PERSONALITY:SYMPATHY:0:25:50]
   [CASTE:GOBLIN_MALE]
      [MALE]

   [CASTE:GOBLIN_FEMALE]
      [FEMALE]
      [MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]

   [CASTE:ORC_MALE]
      [MALE]

   [CASTE:ORC_FEMALE]
      [FEMALE]
      [MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]

   [SELECT_CASTE:GOBLIN_MALE]
       [SELECT_ADDITIONAL_CASTE:GOBLIN_FEMALE]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:SKULL:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH:FACIAL_FEATURES:TEETH:RIBCAGE]
         [DESCRIPTION:A medium-sized humanoid driven to cruelty by its evil nature.]
         [CASTE_NAME:goblin:goblins:goblin]
         [CASTE_TILE:'g'][COLOR:7:0:0]
         [CASTE_GLOWTILE:'"'][CASTE_GLOWCOLOR:4:0:1]
         [POP_RATIO:10]
         [PHYS_ATT_RANGE:STRENGTH:450:950:1150:1250:1350:1550:2250] +
         [PHYS_ATT_RANGE:ENDURANCE:700:1200:1400:1500:1600:1800:2500] ++
         [PHYS_ATT_RANGE:RECUPERATION:450:950:1150:1250:1350:1550:2250] +
         [PHYS_ATT_RANGE:DISEASE_RESISTANCE:450:950:1150:1250:1350:1550:2250] +
         [MENT_ATT_RANGE:WILLPOWER:700:1200:1400:1500:1600:1800:2500] ++
         [MENT_ATT_RANGE:CREATIVITY:0:400:600:750:800:900:1100] --
         [MENT_ATT_RANGE:INTUITION:0:400:600:750:800:900:1100] --
         [MENT_ATT_RANGE:MEMORY:5000:5000:5000:5000:5000:5000:5000] max
         [MENT_ATT_RANGE:EMPATHY:0:100:200:300:400:450:500] ---
         [MENT_ATT_RANGE:SOCIAL_AWARENESS:700:1200:1400:1500:1600:1800:2500] ++
         [BODY_SIZE:0:0:3000]
         [BODY_SIZE:1:168:15000]
         [BODY_SIZE:12:0:60000]
   [SELECT_CASTE:ORC_MALE]
       [SELECT_ADDITIONAL_CASTE:ORC_FEMALE]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:SKULL:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH:FACIAL_FEATURES:GENERIC_TEETH_WITH_FANGS:RIBCAGE]
         [DESCRIPTION:A large, muscular humanoid driven to savagery by its evil nature.]
         [CASTE_NAME:orc:orcs:orcish]
         [CASTE_TILE:'O'][COLOR:7:0:0]
         [CASTE_GLOWTILE:19][CASTE_GLOWCOLOR:4:0:1]
         [PREFSTRING:fearlessness]
         [NOFEAR]
         [POP_RATIO:1]
         [PHYS_ATT_RANGE:STRENGTH:675:1425:1725:1875:2025:2325:3375] +
         [PHYS_ATT_RANGE:ENDURANCE:1050:1800:2100:2250:2400:2700:3750] ++
         [PHYS_ATT_RANGE:TOUGHNESS:1050:1800:2100:2250:2400:2700:3750]
         [PHYS_ATT_RANGE:AGILITY:450:950:1150:1250:1350:1550:2250]
         [PHYS_ATT_RANGE:RECUPERATION:900:1900:2300:2500:2700:3100:4500] +
         [PHYS_ATT_RANGE:DISEASE_RESISTANCE:450:950:1150:1250:1350:1550:2250] +
         [MENT_ATT_RANGE:WILLPOWER:700:1200:1400:1500:1600:1800:2500] ++
         [MENT_ATT_RANGE:CREATIVITY:0:400:600:750:800:900:1100] --
         [MENT_ATT_RANGE:INTUITION:0:400:600:750:800:900:1100] --
         [MENT_ATT_RANGE:MEMORY:5000:5000:5000:5000:5000:5000:5000] max
         [MENT_ATT_RANGE:EMPATHY:0:100:200:300:400:450:500] ---
         [MENT_ATT_RANGE:SOCIAL_AWARENESS:700:1200:1400:1500:1600:1800:2500] ++
         [BODY_SIZE:0:0:6000]
     [BODY_SIZE:1:168:30000]
     [BODY_SIZE:6:0:120000]
   [SELECT_CASTE:ALL]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_MATERIALS]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_TISSUES]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:VERTEBRATE_TISSUE_LAYERS:SKIN:FAT:MUSCLE:BONE:CARTILAGE]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:HEAD_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS]
   [USE_TISSUE_TEMPLATE:EYEBROW:EYEBROW_TEMPLATE]
   [TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:EYEBROW:ABOVE:BY_CATEGORY:EYE]
   [USE_TISSUE_TEMPLATE:EYELASH:EYELASH_TEMPLATE]
   [TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:EYELID:EYELASH:FRONT]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:NAIL:NAIL_TEMPLATE]
   [USE_TISSUE_TEMPLATE:NAIL:NAIL_TEMPLATE]
   [TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:FINGER:NAIL:FRONT]
   [TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:TOE:NAIL:FRONT]
   [SELECT_TISSUE_LAYER:HEART:BY_CATEGORY:HEART]
    [PLUS_TISSUE_LAYER:SKIN:BY_CATEGORY:THROAT]
      [TL_MAJOR_ARTERIES]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUES]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_HEAD_POSITIONS]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:HUMANOID_HEAD_POSITIONS]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:HUMANOID_RIBCAGE_POSITIONS]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:HUMANOID_RELSIZES]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SINEW:SINEW_TEMPLATE]
   [TENDONS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SINEW:200]
   [LIGAMENTS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SINEW:200]
   [HAS_NERVES]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:BLOOD:BLOOD_TEMPLATE]
   [BLOOD:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:BLOOD:LIQUID]
   [CREATURE_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON]
   [GETS_WOUND_INFECTIONS]
   [GETS_INFECTIONS_FROM_ROT]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:PUS:PUS_TEMPLATE]
   [PUS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:PUS:LIQUID]
   [BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HEIGHT:75:95:98:100:102:105:125]
      [APP_MOD_IMPORTANCE:500]
   [BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:BROADNESS:75:95:98:100:102:105:125]
      [APP_MOD_IMPORTANCE:500]
   [SET_BP_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:EYE]
      [BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:CLOSE_SET:0:70:90:100:110:130:200]
         [APP_MOD_NOUN:eyes:PLURAL]
      [BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:DEEP_SET:0:70:90:100:110:130:200]
         [APP_MOD_NOUN:eyes:PLURAL]
      [BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:ROUND_VS_NARROW:0:70:90:100:110:130:200]
         [APP_MOD_NOUN:eyes:PLURAL]
   [SET_BP_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:LIP]
      [BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:THICKNESS:50:70:90:100:110:130:200]
         [APP_MOD_NOUN:lips:PLURAL]
   [SET_BP_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:NOSE]
      [BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:BROADNESS:25:70:90:100:110:130:200]
      [BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:LENGTH:25:70:90:100:110:130:200]
      [BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:UPTURNED:0:70:90:100:110:130:200]
      [BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:CONVEX:0:70:90:100:110:130:200]
         [APP_MOD_NOUN:nose bridge:SINGULAR]
   [SET_BP_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:EAR]
      [BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:SPLAYED_OUT:0:70:90:100:110:130:200]
         [APP_MOD_NOUN:ears:PLURAL]
      [BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HANGING_LOBES:0:70:90:100:110:130:200]
         [APP_MOD_NOUN:ears:PLURAL]
      [BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:BROADNESS:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
         [APP_MOD_IMPORTANCE:700]
         [APP_MOD_NOUN:ears:PLURAL]
      [BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HEIGHT:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
         [APP_MOD_IMPORTANCE:700]
         [APP_MOD_NOUN:ears:PLURAL]
   [SET_BP_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:TOOTH]
      [BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:GAPS:0:70:90:100:110:130:200]
         [APP_MOD_NOUN:teeth:PLURAL]
   [SET_BP_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:SKULL]
      [BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HIGH_CHEEKBONES:0:70:90:100:110:130:200]
      [BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:BROAD_CHIN:0:70:90:100:110:130:200]
      [BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:JUTTING_CHIN:0:70:90:100:110:130:200]
      [BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:SQUARE_CHIN:0:70:90:100:110:130:200]
   [SET_BP_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:THROAT]
      [BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:DEEP_VOICE:0:70:90:100:110:130:200]
      [BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:RASPY_VOICE:0:70:90:100:110:130:200]
   [SET_BP_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD]
      [BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:BROADNESS:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
         [APP_MOD_IMPORTANCE:700]
      [BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HEIGHT:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
         [APP_MOD_IMPORTANCE:700]
   [ATTACK:PUNCH:BODYPART:BY_TYPE:GRASP]
      [ATTACK_SKILL:GRASP_STRIKE]
      [ATTACK_VERB:punch:punches]
      [ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
      [ATTACK_FLAG_WITH]
      [ATTACK_PRIORITY:MAIN]
   [ATTACK:KICK:BODYPART:BY_TYPE:STANCE]
      [ATTACK_SKILL:STANCE_STRIKE]
      [ATTACK_VERB:kick:kicks]
      [ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
      [ATTACK_FLAG_WITH]
      [ATTACK_PRIORITY:SECOND]
   [ATTACK:SCRATCH:CHILD_TISSUE_LAYER_GROUP:BY_TYPE:GRASP:BY_CATEGORY:FINGER:NAIL]
      [ATTACK_SKILL:GRASP_STRIKE]
      [ATTACK_VERB:scratch:scratches]
      [ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
      [ATTACK_PENETRATION_PERC:100]
      [ATTACK_FLAG_EDGE]
      [ATTACK_PRIORITY:SECOND]
   [ATTACK:BITE:CHILD_BODYPART_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:BY_CATEGORY:TOOTH]
      [ATTACK_SKILL:BITE]
      [ATTACK_VERB:bite:bites]
      [ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
      [ATTACK_PENETRATION_PERC:100]
      [ATTACK_FLAG_EDGE]
      [ATTACK_PRIORITY:SECOND]
      [ATTACK_FLAG_CANLATCH]
   [BABY:1]
   [CHILD:12]
   [EQUIPS]
   [HOMEOTHERM:10067]
   [SWIMS_LEARNED][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
   [MANNERISM_FINGERS:finger:fingers]
   [MANNERISM_NOSE:nose]
   [MANNERISM_EAR:ear]
   [MANNERISM_HEAD:head]
   [MANNERISM_EYES:eyes]
   [MANNERISM_MOUTH:mouth]
   [MANNERISM_HAIR:hair]
   [MANNERISM_KNUCKLES:knuckles]
   [MANNERISM_LIPS:lips]
   [MANNERISM_CHEEK:cheek]
   [MANNERISM_NAILS:nails]
   [MANNERISM_FEET:feet]
   [MANNERISM_ARMS:arms]
   [MANNERISM_HANDS:hands]
   [MANNERISM_TONGUE:tongue]
   [MANNERISM_LEG:leg]
   [MANNERISM_LAUGH]
   [MANNERISM_SMILE]
   [MANNERISM_WALK]
   [MANNERISM_SIT]
   [MANNERISM_BREATH]
   [MANNERISM_POSTURE]
   [MANNERISM_STRETCH]
   [MANNERISM_EYELIDS]
   [SELECT_CASTE:GOBLIN_MALE]
       [SELECT_ADDITIONAL_CASTE:ORC_MALE]
         [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS]
   [SELECT_CASTE:ALL]
      [SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:HAIR]
       [PLUS_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:CHEEK_WHISKERS]
       [PLUS_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:CHIN_WHISKERS]
       [PLUS_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:MOUSTACHE]
       [PLUS_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:SIDEBURNS]
       [PLUS_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:EYEBROW]
       [PLUS_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:EYELASH]
   [TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:AMETHYST:1:CARMINE:1:CRIMSON:1:DARK_SCARLET:1:DARK_VIOLET:1:FUCHSIA:1:HELIOTROPE:1:INDIGO:1:LAVENDER:1:LAVENDER_BLUSH:1:LILAC:1:MAROON:1:PLUM:1:PUCE:1:PURPLE:1:SCARLET:1:VERMILION:1:VIOLET:1]
            [TLCM_NOUN:hair:SINGULAR]
      [SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:EYEBROW]
         [TISSUE_LAYER_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:LENGTH:50:80:90:100:110:120:150]
            [APP_MOD_NOUN:eyebrows:PLURAL]
      [SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:EYELASH]
         [TISSUE_LAYER_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:LENGTH:50:80:90:100:110:120:150]
            [APP_MOD_NOUN:eyelashes:PLURAL]
      [SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:HAIR]
       [PLUS_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:CHEEK_WHISKERS]
       [PLUS_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:CHIN_WHISKERS]
       [PLUS_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:MOUSTACHE]
       [PLUS_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:SIDEBURNS]
         [TISSUE_LAYER_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:LENGTH:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
            [APP_MOD_RATE:1:DAILY:0:1000:0:0:NO_END]
            [APP_MOD_NOUN:hair:SINGULAR]
      [SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:SKIN]
   [TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:ASH_GRAY:1:DARK_GREEN:1:DARK_OLIVE:1:EMERALD:1:FERN_GREEN:1:GRAY:1:GREEN:1:JADE:1:LIME:1:MINT_GREEN:1:MOSS_GREEN:1:OLIVE:1:PINE_GREEN:1:SEA_GREEN:1:SLATE_GRAY:1:SPRING_GREEN:1]
            [TLCM_NOUN:skin:SINGULAR]
      [SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:EYE:EYE]
         [TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:PUPIL_EYE_RED:1]
            [TLCM_NOUN:eyes:PLURAL]

The challenge is also increased by the Orc's obtainment of cavern mounts and other goblin civ advantages.

entity_default

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[ENTITY:EVIL]
   [CREATURE:EVIL]
   [TRANSLATION:GOBLIN]
   [DIGGER:ITEM_WEAPON_PICK]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_BATTLE]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_HAMMER_WAR]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SPEAR]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MACE]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_BOW]
      [AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_ARROWS]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_PIKE]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_HALBERD]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_2H]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_LONG]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MAUL]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_GREAT]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_FLAIL]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MORNINGSTAR]
   [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SCIMITAR]
   [ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_BREASTPLATE:COMMON]
   [ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_MAIL_SHIRT:COMMON]
   [ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_LEATHER:COMMON]
   [ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_CLOAK:COMMON]
   [ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_TUNIC:COMMON]
   [ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_ROBE:COMMON]
   [HELM:ITEM_HELM_HELM:COMMON]
   [HELM:ITEM_HELM_CAP:COMMON]
   [HELM:ITEM_HELM_HOOD:COMMON]
   [HELM:ITEM_HELM_MASK:COMMON]
   [GLOVES:ITEM_GLOVES_GAUNTLETS:COMMON]
   [SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_BOOTS:COMMON]
   [PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_GREAVES:COMMON]
   [PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_LEGGINGS:COMMON]
   [SHIELD:ITEM_SHIELD_SHIELD]
   [SHIELD:ITEM_SHIELD_BUCKLER]
   [SIEGEAMMO:ITEM_SIEGEAMMO_BALLISTA]
   [TOY:ITEM_TOY_AXE]
   [TRAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_GIANTAXEBLADE]
   [TRAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_ENORMOUSCORKSCREW]
   [TRAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_SPIKEDBALL]
   [TRAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_LARGESERRATEDDISC]
   [TRAPCOMP:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_MENACINGSPIKE]
   [INSTRUMENT:ITEM_INSTRUMENT_DRUM]
   [CLOTHING]
   [SUBTERRANEAN_CLOTHING]
   [CURRENCY:COPPER:1]
   [CURRENCY:SILVER:5]
   [CURRENCY:GOLD:15]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:WAR:NAME_WAR]
   [SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:WAR:VIOLENT]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:BATTLE:NAME_BATTLE]
   [SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:BATTLE:VIOLENT]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:SIEGE:NAME_SIEGE]
   [SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:SIEGE:VIOLENT]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:ROAD:NAME_ROAD]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:TUNNEL:NAME_TUNNEL]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:BRIDGE:NAME_BRIDGE]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:WALL:NAME_WALL]
   [SELECT_SYMBOL:REMAINING:EVIL]
   [CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:DOMESTIC]
   [CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:FLOWERY]
   [CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:HOLY]
   [CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:PEACE]
   [CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:NEGATOR]
   [CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:GOOD]
   [STONE_PREF]
   [METAL_PREF]
   [USE_CAVE_ANIMALS]
   [USE_EVIL_ANIMALS]
   [USE_EVIL_PLANTS]
   [USE_EVIL_WOOD]
   [USE_ANIMAL_PRODUCTS]
   [USE_MISC_PROCESSED_WOOD_PRODUCTS]
   [EQUIPMENT_IMPROVEMENTS]
   [ABUSE_BODIES]
   [SPHERE_ALIGNMENT:WAR:512]
   [ART_FACET_MODIFIER:GOOD:0]
   [ART_FACET_MODIFIER:OWN_RACE:512]
   [ART_FACET_MODIFIER:EVIL:512]
   [FRIENDLY_COLOR:5:0:1]
   [DEFAULT_SITE_TYPE:DARK_FORTRESS]
   [LIKES_SITE:DARK_FORTRESS]
   [TOLERATES_SITE:DARK_FORTRESS]
   [TOLERATES_SITE:CAVE]
   [START_BIOME:ANY_LAND]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ALL_MAIN:1]
   [BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_RIVER:1]
   [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POPULATION:2]
   [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PRODUCTION:2]
   [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE:2]
   [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POP_SIEGE:3]
   [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PROD_SIEGE:0]
   [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE_SIEGE:0]
   [ACTIVE_SEASON:SPRING]
   [ACTIVE_SEASON:SUMMER]
   [ACTIVE_SEASON:AUTUMN]
   [ACTIVE_SEASON:WINTER]
   [BABYSNATCHER]
   [MAX_STARTING_CIV_NUMBER:100]
   [MAX_POP_NUMBER:10000]
   [MAX_SITE_POP_NUMBER:120]
   [BEAST_HUNTER]
   [SCOUT]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:MINER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:CARPENTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:BOWYER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:WOODCUTTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ENGRAVER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:MASON]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ANIMAL_CARETAKER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ANIMAL_TRAINER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:HUNTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:TRAPPER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ANIMAL_DISSECTOR]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:FURNACE_OPERATOR]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:WEAPONSMITH]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ARMORER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:BLACKSMITH]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:METALCRAFTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:WOODCRAFTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:STONECRAFTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:LEATHERWORKER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:BONE_CARVER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:WEAVER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:CLOTHIER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:GLASSMAKER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:FISHERMAN]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:FISH_DISSECTOR]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:FISH_CLEANER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:COOK]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:BUTCHER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:TANNER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:DYER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:HERBALIST]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:BREWER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:LYE_MAKER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:WOOD_BURNER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:MECHANIC]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:SIEGE_ENGINEER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:SIEGE_OPERATOR]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:PUMP_OPERATOR]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:TRADER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:ARCHITECT]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:DIAGNOSER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:BONE_SETTER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:SUTURER]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:SURGEON]
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:TAN_A_HIDE]
   [PERMITTED_REACTION:RENDER_FAT]
   [WORLD_CONSTRUCTION:TUNNEL]
   [WORLD_CONSTRUCTION:BRIDGE]
   [ETHIC:KILL_ENTITY_MEMBER:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:KILL_NEUTRAL:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:KILL_ENEMY:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:KILL_ANIMAL:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:KILL_PLANT:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:TORTURE_AS_EXAMPLE:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_INFORMATION:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_FUN:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:TORTURE_ANIMALS:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:TREASON:PUNISH_CAPITAL]
   [ETHIC:OATH_BREAKING:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:LYING:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:VANDALISM:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:TRESPASSING:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:THEFT:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:ASSAULT:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:SLAVERY:PERSONAL_MATTER]
   [ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_OTHER:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAME_RACE:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAPIENT:ACCEPTABLE]
   [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_ANIMAL:ACCEPTABLE]
   [POSITION:WARLORD]
      [NAME:warlord:warlords]
      [SITE]
      [NUMBER:1]
      [MENIAL_WORK_EXEMPTION]
      [SUCCESSION:BY_POSITION:MARAUDER]
      [RESPONSIBILITY:LAW_MAKING]
      [RESPONSIBILITY:MILITARY_GOALS]
      [RESPONSIBILITY:MILITARY_STRATEGY]
      [RESPONSIBILITY:RECEIVE_DIPLOMATS]
      [SQUAD:4:bodyguard:bodyguards]
      [COMMANDER:MARAUDER:ALL]
      [PRECEDENCE:10]
      [FLASHES]
      [BRAG_ON_KILL]
      [CHAT_WORTHY]
      [DO_NOT_CULL]
      [KILL_QUEST]
      [EXPORTED_IN_LEGENDS]
      [COLOR:4:0:1]
      [DUTY_BOUND]
   [POSITION:MARAUDER]
      [NAME:marauder:marauders]
      [SITE]
      [NUMBER:AS_NEEDED]
      [RESPONSIBILITY:ATTACK_ENEMIES]
      [RESPONSIBILITY:PATROL_TERRITORY]
      [APPOINTED_BY:WARLORD]
      [SQUAD:10:raider:raiders]
      [PRECEDENCE:100]
      [DO_NOT_CULL]
   [VARIABLE_POSITIONS:ALL]

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
Post by: 612DwarfAvenue on January 16, 2011, 01:58:47 am

Holy cow necro.

Good necro though, people need to be aware of the awesomeness that is this mod.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
Post by: maxs on January 22, 2011, 05:35:09 pm

Hey guys, I'm very happy to find this mod! Is it compatible with 31.18??

Also I read above that the orcs can use up to bronze.. is it possible to change it so they use up to steel?

Also is it possible to make dwarf fortress throw more skilled enemies at you? Even a legendary fighter or axeman once in a while? Perhaps the leader of the siege?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
Post by: maxs on January 23, 2011, 07:42:08 pm

ttt

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
Post by: darkflagrance on January 23, 2011, 08:11:27 pm

Quote from: maxs on January 22, 2011, 05:35:09 pm

Hey guys, I'm very happy to find this mod! Is it compatible with 31.18??

Also I read above that the orcs can use up to bronze.. is it possible to change it so they use up to steel?

Also is it possible to make dwarf fortress throw more skilled enemies at you? Even a legendary fighter or axeman once in a while? Perhaps the leader of the siege?

Make a new caste with
   [NATURAL_SKILL:STANCE_STRIKE:15]
   [NATURAL_SKILL:ARMOR:15]
   [NATURAL_SKILL:MELEE_COMBAT:15]

They will be grandmaster fighters.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
Post by: maxs on January 24, 2011, 01:11:46 am

Thanks this sounds like what I was looking for, but where do I put this? (total newb here).

Also.. will this make ALL of them master fighters or does it just enable some of them to attain that level of skill?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
Post by: darkflagrance on January 24, 2011, 05:23:02 am

Quote from: maxs on January 24, 2011, 01:11:46 am

Thanks this sounds like what I was looking for, but where do I put this? (total newb here).

Also.. will this make ALL of them master fighters or does it just enable some of them to attain that level of skill?

In the orc creature entry, you might see something that says [CASTE:MALE]

Just in front of it, paste this:

Code: [Select]

	[CASTE:ORC_WARLORD]
        [CASTE_NAME:orc warlord:orc warlords:orc warlord]
        [MALE]
        [POP_RATIO:1] 
        [NATURAL_SKILL:STANCE_STRIKE:15]
        [NATURAL_SKILL:ARMOR:15]
        [NATURAL_SKILL:MELEE_COMBAT:15]

Then add a [POP_RATIO:5] tag just below the CASTE:MALE and CASTE:FEMALE tags in the orc creature raws.

What I have posted here will create a new type of orc called an Orc warlord. There is one warlord born for every 10 normal orcs (you can decrease proportion by increasing the value of the [POP_RATIO:5] tags for normal orcs). They will be legendary battlers and always male.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
Post by: Loki on February 27, 2011, 03:00:26 am

Quote from: ninja137 on October 17, 2010, 09:28:44 pm

I seem to be having a bit of trouble making this work, then again im new to modding. When I put this into the RAW no orcs ever show up in worldgen. Can anyone please tell me what I might be doing wrong?

I'm in the same boat as this guy, but he posted his question on (coincidentally) my birthday, 10/17, one year ago, and has yet to get a reply. Could someone break this down step by step? I could get it to work fine before 2010 :/

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
Post by: ninja137 on October 05, 2011, 03:31:09 pm

Woo~ I am a necromancer, behold the awesome of the Orc Mod thread!

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
Post by: QuakeIV on February 17, 2012, 02:09:50 am

Does anyone know if this mod will work with the latest release?

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
Post by: Rockphed on February 17, 2012, 01:04:47 pm

The spiders might need their webs turned into interactions, but otherwise it should work.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
Post by: QuakeIV on February 17, 2012, 05:52:57 pm

Thanks, I'll head right into testing then.

Title: Re: Orcs: More things to kill - Now for DF2010!
Post by: 1v0ry_k1ng on April 05, 2012, 12:11:47 pm

A df_34_07 compatible version of Orcs is available Here! (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=105373.msg3121488#msg3121488)

Bay 12 Games Forum

Dwarf Fortress => DF Modding => Mod Releases => Topic started by: Rysith on November 05, 2008, 01:42:38 am