Bay 12 Games Forum
Dwarf Fortress => DF General Discussion => Topic started by: antymattar on July 31, 2010, 11:43:55 am
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Ok have any of you wandered why females don't have breasts or why people don't have a lower part that I will not mention here. At least in df.
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REALLY easy cheap shots.
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No, seriously.
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the game predicts the easiest target for the ai to attack, considering .... boobs and sticks are external, they would count for limbs and aim for them as they are 'exposed', easy targets to cut off causing massive bleeding and death.
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Why is it OK to mention breasts but not a penis? Or dick, schlong, rod, twig & berries, cock, etc.
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Why is it OK to mention breasts but not a penis? Or dick, schlong, rod, twig & berries, cock, etc.
Well, now nobody can say you don't know dick.
Serious answer to OP: You can mod them in if you want. The damage modeling seems to do okay without them though. It's not really necessary. DF doesn't model every organ and muscle either, only certain major ones.
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Why is it OK to mention breasts but not a penis? Or dick, schlong, rod, twig & berries, cock, etc.
The fact that someone doesn't use a term doesn't mean they think noone should. Just that they choose not to themselves.
Edit - With regard to the topic at hand, I think there was a mention of this in one of the DF talks, I'll go look.
Edit - Maybe not.
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IIRC, Toady said he was worried about moral crusaders (here, in the US) finding out about the game and causing trouble. Some people don't need much of an excuse to attack video games, and allowing genital mutilation during combat would be a very easy target. So as to say.
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Well, they would only come up in rather unpleasant situations, such as getting cut off. I believe that was a big part of the reason.
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I would turn the question around. Why would you need that level of anatomical correctness? If just for the prurient interest, I'd suggest perhaps playing FATAL (http://index.rpg.net/display-entry.phtml?mainid=3910). :)
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Honestly, I can't imagine why Toady wouldn't want the moral crusaders getting all up in his business. Donations would triple, no joke.
Even more fun would be if a firefighting technique usable by half the population was implemented.. well, those that haven't had a certain severed part fly off in an arc.
Edit: Seriously? Moral crusaders? Here? We've already got a waterfall made of children, teenage girls being beaten with axes, temper tantrums involving maces, fell moods, animal torture, clowns, and all kinds of gruesome M-rated stuff. We've got decapitation and limb removal galore. Why does it only become a problem when it happens to someone's PINGAS?
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Why is it OK to mention breasts but not a penis? Or dick, schlong, rod, twig & berries, cock, etc.
I would have mentioned the penis. I was refering to the anus.
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Fun fact: Amazon warriors used remove their breasts. Got in the way when they used bows.
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Fun fact: Amazon warriors used remove their breasts. Got in the way when they used bows.
not both, just the right one, the still needed to keep one to feed the kids XD
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Thats sick.
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Fun fact: Amazon warriors used remove their breasts. Got in the way when they used bows.
not both, just the right one, the still needed to keep one to feed the kids XD
Yep... It's like there existed a clan of Sarah Connors once.
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To be honest christian crusaders crying because you can cut tits off would probably act as some nice free publicity.
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To be honest christian crusaders crying because you can cut tits off would probably act as some nice free publicity.
Well you see the thing is...
Balls getting smashed, cut off or otherwise mutilated is quite hilarious and sometimes even sends a strong feminist message. Even when it happens in real life!
Breasts mutilated? OH MY GOD WHAT SICK SADISTIC SNUFF PORN SMUT IS THIS??!?!!? ...and it can sometimes send a strong feminist message.
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To be honest christian crusaders crying because you can cut tits off would probably act as some nice free publicity.
"Waah Waah this game is evil!"
"Sounds like fun"
*24 hours of DF later*
"I HAVE FOUND THE TRUE PATH!"
*Donates/Sets up altar to Toady*
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Yes, that would be good publicity, but someone would have to contact the crazy censor people.
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I'm a Christian. >:(. Seriously, you are weird.
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Weird is a relative term. Since you're on a board well known for it's mermaid butchering exploits (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=25967.0), you may wish to tweak your definition. As a side note, sorry if the somewhat stereotyped depiction of Christians as reactionary douchenozzles expressed in this thread offended you. Having spent some time with actual (nice) Christians, I can understand your gripe with that. Still, the hostility is mostly directed against the actual someone-think-of-the-children types out there who have given the gaming community a lot of trouble in the past, and continue to do so, if to a lesser extent.
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They would actually give a lot more trouble if they were less inept at it and always resorting to the easy "think of the children" arguments.
Bless em for that.
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It is effective to a certain degree. They managed to raise quite a stink over Dungeons and Dragons back in the day, hence why we had "Magic Users" instead of wizards. They also gave Magic the Gathering quite a bit of flak, and WotC had to stop printing any cards with religious references for a while, just to avoid a shitstorm. Granted, most of these concessions were in the form of self-policing, and occurred a while ago, but even now an AO rating is still a kiss of death for a console game.
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It is effective to a certain degree. They managed to raise quite a stink over Dungeons and Dragons back in the day, hence why we had "Magic Users" instead of wizards. They also gave Magic the Gathering quite a bit of flak, and WotC had to stop printing any cards with religious references for a while, just to avoid a shitstorm. Granted, most of these concessions were in the form of self-policing, and occurred a while ago, but even now an AO rating is still a kiss of death for a console game.
Actually, the crowning example of censorship was the Comics Code (because a fully illustrated book could only be written for children), which largely is responsible for crippling the comics industry to nothing but superhero stories, as well as making animated works in generally largely the domain of Disney and Hanna Barbara for several decades.
Also, kiss of death? TV Tropes begs to differ:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RatedMForMoney
and
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AvoidTheDreadedGRating
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Also, kiss of death? TV Tropes begs to differ:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RatedMForMoney
and
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AvoidTheDreadedGRating
Noooooo i was free, and now i'm condomned again. you monster
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One problem is that you go to far in the genitalia wagging area it becomes the rare A rating. which most vendors simply refuse to carry. since this is not really under the same purview it doesn't really matter.
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Nothing like censorship in supposed land of freedom. But this is topic for different discussion on different forum... or better not at all. Only income would be political trolls, moralfags from one certain morally bankrupt organization, whining, more whining and rampant name calling, flaming and general retardiness.
More seriously and on topic...
IIRC, Toady said he was worried about moral crusaders (here, in the US) finding out about the game and causing trouble.
I do not understand why he care about it at all. I thought he live outside of USA. Anyway, this is just sad (I mean, constraining artistic freedom, I do not care about spinning penises).
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(I mean, constraining artistic freedom, I do not care about spinning penises).
Actually, that's probably another thing that would happen to genitalia if they were in the game...
If adventurers could chop off genetalia, you know SOMEONE would go and pick up the severed "limb", and start bludgeoning or throwing it at other creatures, potentially killing large swaths of the game's population in a rampaging genetalia-frenzy.
(Heck, we already had Goblin Fortress's female tentacle monsters, and the Succubus mod's breast attacks.)
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Urist McPervert has become attached to an elf wang.
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If adventurers could chop off genetalia, you know SOMEONE would go and pick up the severed "limb", and start bludgeoning or throwing it at other creatures, potentially killing large swaths of the game's population in a rampaging genetalia-frenzy.
A bronze colossus "longsword"?
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Actually, the crowning example of censorship was the Comics Code (because a fully illustrated book could only be written for children), which largely is responsible for crippling the comics industry to nothing but superhero stories, as well as making animated works in generally largely the domain of Disney and Hanna Barbara for several decades.
Also, kiss of death? TV Tropes begs to differ:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RatedMForMoney
and
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AvoidTheDreadedGRating
I was mostly sticking with gaming examples, but yeah, the comics code was bad news. Also of great note was the Hays Code (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hays_Code), which kept an absolute stranglehold on American cinema from 1930 to 1968. On the "Rated M for Money" trope, that is only true of the "M" or 17+ rating. The "AO" or 18+ rating is about as I described it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entertainment_Software_Rating_Board#Ratings). No great loss, of course, given that games which do get AO ratings are rarely exemplars of artistic expression.
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Hmm... looking at the list for AO games...
The list of AO-rated products is composed of entertainment products that have been rated by the Entertainment Software Rating Board to have strong sexual and/or violent content suitable only for persons aged eighteen or older. The AO (Adults Only) rating is seldom awarded; in the fifteen year history of the organization and thousands of products rated, only twenty-three titles have officially earned and kept the rating. Out of these twenty-three games to be rated AO, twenty earned the rating for just the sexual content, two were just for the violence and one for unsimulated gambling.
Looking at the list, "Strong Sexual Content" means "It's Porn", which probably means it wasn't getting too hurt by having a no-no rating, since my experience with media has generally told me that Porn tends to do very well for itself, thank you very much...
One is actual gambling game (I guess it's an actual CD you use when you gamble online, instead of just a website?), which the law is trying to slam down on with more extreme measures than just restricted ratings.
One is Manhunt 2, which proudly wore the title "Murder Simulator" for as much money as it could make in the aftermath of the GTA controversies. Oh, yeah, and apparently, it has "Strong Sexual Content", too, so apparently, someone slipped a nipple.
And finally, there's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit_(video_game) Farenheit / Indigo Prophecy, which is the only game on the list I actually played, and I can't really see why THAT of all things has the highest rating. The game is supposed to be more of an "interactive movie" with a heavy slant on plot over what essentially amounts to "bop-it" style gameplay in action sequences and a few decision trees. What, was it the fact that the hero is an atheist who enjoys reading "Thus Spake Zarthustra"? Or was it the whole being raised from the dead by a free-floating AI ghost that turns into a raven and talks to people? Anyway, I'm not sure if it's "art" or just trying really, really hard to BE art, but that one actually does try to kinda-sorta be mature. --- OH WAIT! Apparently, reading down, only the "Director's Cut" had the sex scene, and was AO. So apparently, it doesn't matter how many zombies you behead, so long as you don't have an interactive sex scene or actual money gambling, you're pretty much safe from the AO rating.
Now then, on the "Temporary AO" list, we have GTA, because of that silly "Hot Coffee" thing, because, of course, you can blow up as many Los Angeles mock-ups and shiv as many old ladies for no real reason other than to hear them scream you want, it's still safe for kids until you have a minor sex side-game.
The rest of the temporary AO stuff is generally nudity, as well.
So basically, AO means "You can see boobies and weewees here!", which generally doesn't do much to really hurt most of these games, if they're seriously going for sex selling, anyway.
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Unless there's gameplay related to it, adding naughty bits would have no benefit other than the opportunity to bruise, break, dent and sever them. It would be funny, no doubt, but without functionality associated with them it would be fluff, meaningless injuries that are already covered by upper and lower torso injuries. If you can't get a status ailment by damaging it or a foodstuff by butchering it, why include it in the anatomy instead of a more generalized body region? For my part, I'd rather see kneecaps added in. Have the Hammerer aim for them.
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...it would be fluff...
Doesn't that imply a new Noble? The Fluffer!
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Unless there's gameplay related to it, adding naughty bits would have no benefit other than the opportunity to bruise, break, dent and sever them. It would be funny, no doubt, but without functionality associated with them it would be fluff, meaningless injuries that are already covered by upper and lower torso injuries. If you can't get a status ailment by damaging it or a foodstuff by butchering it, why include it in the anatomy instead of a more generalized body region? For my part, I'd rather see kneecaps added in. Have the Hammerer aim for them.
I think it would be good because if a dwarf was to have his balls smashed with a hammer,he wouldn't be able to breed which means it would make the game a bit more realistic.
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Unless there's gameplay related to it, adding naughty bits would have no benefit other than the opportunity to bruise, break, dent and sever them. It would be funny, no doubt, but without functionality associated with them it would be fluff, meaningless injuries that are already covered by upper and lower torso injuries. If you can't get a status ailment by damaging it or a foodstuff by butchering it, why include it in the anatomy instead of a more generalized body region? For my part, I'd rather see kneecaps added in. Have the Hammerer aim for them.
I think it would be good because if a dwarf was to have his balls smashed with a hammer,he wouldn't be able to breed which means it would make the game a bit more realistic.
Ergo we can neuter our cats.
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Forget the dwarves! we need this stuff so we can remove it from cats. Spay and neuter your pets folks. Dwarves can keep reproducing by spores for all I care.
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Yes so you could have your Anti Kobold Scum Thief Protection tm without the risk of Catsplosion.And it could make an interesting punishment that a noble gives to somebody who has violated an order.
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Also, kiss of death? TV Tropes begs to differ:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RatedMForMoney
and
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AvoidTheDreadedGRating
Bastard! I am going to be here for hours because of you!
Also, I think the reason nibbly bits arent in the game is because of abstraction. Toady doesnt model every organ or bone and he may be unwilling to model everything. Take poo and sewer simulation for example. Sexual parts are also on wary ground for many people even people with no problem with body parts being torn around--as long as they arent certain ones of course. This may turn people off from the game. They can always be modded in.
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Spay and neuter your pets folks.
Both. o.O Had to point it out.
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Funny how this whole thread is about possible censorship, and not a word is spent regarding good taste...
Just pointing that out.
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Funny how this whole thread is about possible censorship, and not a word is spent regarding good taste...
Just pointing that out.
Well, allow me to rectify that.
I'm not certain, but I've heard that Toady doesn't want to include basic biological functions (i.e. Sex and waste removal) because (I've heard three reasons) either a) It's gross and not entirely necessary, b) the community will inevitably pervert it to FATAL proportions, or c) the Moral Guardians would crack down on him. Any of those could be true, but I'm not sure.
That being said, I think the second reason is the most pertinent. With this community, there would be mods for horrible things within a week. And discussions about how best to farm, I dunno, concubines for your military. And there would be no end to the adventures taking dismembered members and beating people to death with them, for the lulz. So, yes, without them it feels kinda strange, but with them it would be so much worse.
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An uncontroled catpopulation is indeed quite a danger in and around citys for the local plant and wildlife. Mainly singingbirds suffer under them.
For all whats good if toady does not include the "biological correct"-stuff he does not include it. Therefore we can mod the fluff quite easily. You can get even detailed description on cup-sizes, nipplecolors etc if you are skilled enought in the art of modding. And there are mods that disturb even me.
Heck maybe we get even the stuff as soon actual mating gets in. As toady said (iirc) on one of the interviews the "spores" are just a function to ensure that anything which comes in multiple genders does breed at all.
Funny how this whole thread is about possible censorship, and not a word is spent regarding good taste...
Just pointing that out.
"Good taste" is a very local and personal thing while censorship is something more consistent. In my view "good taste" includes also to speak about natural things as nudity or whatever rather freely but "censorship" isnt bound to any of my views but more to certain Lobbys and laws.
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at this rate im surprised this thread hasn't Godwin'd itself
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at this rate im surprised this thread hasn't Godwin'd itself
Hitler would say that.
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Now that you mention it, I does seem like this thread was engineered by someone in a certain political party to cause chaos and disorder among the ranks of the forums. Then said person could in, theory, emerge as the leader of said party and take over the forum government, and then cremate all the beardless forumites. Hail to the chief, baby!
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Funny how this whole thread is about possible censorship, and not a word is spent regarding good taste...
Just pointing that out.
Well, since dwarves prepare kidneys, brain, liver, sweetbread, and tripe without any problems, Rocky Mountain Oysters should taste about the same.
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The problem with talking about taste is that you know there won't be any. Even if you call them "mammaries" in the game, you're still going to see them mostly when they get cut off, mutilated, or are severed from the body of the creature who once possessed them, and potentially when some adventurer gets it in his sick head to start throwing it at people like Oddjob with his hat, decapitating people with the absurd throwing mechanics.
I doubt that Toady fears moral guardians, I mean, this game is already something that really only appeals to the M crowd, anyway. Even if there were acts of sex in this game, the simple fact that you can't see anything would probably prevent most people from getting upset. (Remember that the GTA version of Hot Coffee that was perfectly fine by the censors was the version where all you saw was the house, and heard sexual moaning, and it was made quite explicit that CJ was having sex, but that you simply couldn't see it.)
As for this game hitting FATAL levels of perversion... I hate to break it to you, but we're already a bunch of raw-intestines eating, childfall-creating, Goblin-Fortress making, blood pool for the blood god clamoring, slave-wanting, elf and kitten torturous and genocidal group, here. If rock bottom yet lies below us, it isn't very far. (I think the thing that sets us apart from FATAL at this point is forced abortions by melee combat (I.E. the "FALCON PUNCH" crowd), extremely detailed play-by-play rules for sex/rape, and an obvious hardon for professional wrestling. Heck, you can even roll for anal circumference if you mod anuses into your creatures.)
As for feces, Toady actually recently said in a Q&A that he actually likes feces for the ability to use it as manure, to make you clean up after livestock, and for having to build sewers. The only reason he's holding off is that he doesn't want to force "potty breaks", because he feels dwarves take enough breaks over the course of a year, and he doesn't want a "you gotta go" message to pop up in Adventurer mode during combat, which would "ruin the immersion".
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and he doesn't want a "you gotta go" message to pop up in Adventurer mode during combat, which would "ruin the immersion".
Giant Cave Spider Silk Diapers
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Seriously? Moral crusaders? Here? We've already got a waterfall made of children, teenage girls being beaten with axes, temper tantrums involving maces, fell moods, animal torture, clowns, and all kinds of gruesome M-rated stuff. We've got decapitation and limb removal galore. Why does it only become a problem when it happens to someone's PINGAS?
I'm seriously considering sigging this.
Also I am disgusted by the current level of importance people willingly give to rating organizations. It is sick, perverted and most of all retarded.
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Ooh! Sig me! Sig me!
And the ESRB is silly. It serves no purpose beyond "Give the kids something to want" and attempting to label porn. It also makes no critical distinctions between types of "Blood and Gore" and "Sexual Content". Is the blood and gore coming from pulped zombies or screaming babies? Is the sexual content Leisure Suit Larry, or closer to a cutaway version of Max Hardcore? In Dragon Age: Origins, you can have gay sex with an elf, with the only thing between you and elf dick a tiny layer of flimsy cloth. Holy crap, thanks for warning us about that, ESRB!
Prototype and Infamous are practically the same game; one is labeled M, the other T, because in Prototype there's quite a bit more red pixels on the screen. So it's more all right if the player can brutally murder someone by tossing them off the top of a twelve-story building, and then landing on them in a thunderous shockwave of death, just so long as the laws of physics don't apply with regards to their internal organs?
As an attempt to actually warn people of just what's in the game, it fails. The ESRB is just there to placate said moronic moral guardians. That's all.
Of course maybe one day this whole fantasy of 'if they're exposed to it, it will corrupt their young minds!' will die off in the face of common sense. Actual children have fantasies more outrageously violent (http://www.axecop.com) than anything an adult can come up with. The fact that we still see this argument in 2010 is ridiculous. Young boys love bloody messes as well as the chance to spray sticky fluids onto things. As do DF players. Deal with it.
But even with the whole "oh no content advisory" bullshit out of the way, this doesn't mean that we should expect Toady to simulate everything. Watching dwarves get turned into eunuchs might be funny. Beating people to death with a (forgotten beast wang) might make for some great screenshots, particularly since forgotten beasts have multiple organs of all kinds. But if we really get into the simulation aspect, dwarven women will start having periods, and I don't think anyone wants that.
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As an attempt to actually warn people of just what's in the game, it fails. The ESRB is just there to placate said moronic moral guardians. That's all.
Actually, the ESRB IS just there to placate the moral guardians. The gaming companies set it up so that they wouldn't have to censor their games the way Nintendo used to (like with bloodless Mortal Kombat), and could instead just sell whatever games with a tag on the outside that says "Hey, we had some lazy, nondescript warning that there was violence in this box, don't complain to me!"
Of course maybe one day this whole fantasy of 'if they're exposed to it, it will corrupt their young minds!' will die off in the face of common sense.
HAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Yeah, right, the Helen Lovejoys will always be there to home-school their children so that they never have any fun, and they will grow up as Helen Lovejoy clones that homeschool their children and don't let their children have fun, either.
People have been condemning people for "Corrupting The Youth" since the days of Aristotle. We just happen to be lucky enough to live in a time when the biggest advocate for the Helen Lovejoys was Jack Thompson, a man so idiotic and incompetent that he proclaimed that The Sims was a threat to society becuase people were capable of modding Penises in. If he didn't so utterly discredit the notion of censorship of games, we might be under the same threat movies and comic books had been under.
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Ooh! Sig me! Sig me!
And the ESRB is silly.
<snip>
Don't be so quick to say bad things about the ESRB. If you're 17+ (which the huge margin of gamers actually are) then their markings cause zero impact on your gaming experience. But if there wasn't the ability for game makers to mark their games "M", then people would demand that ALL games be safe for kids. This way those who want to protect their kids (a reasonable, or unreasonable amount) can be satisfied, and gamers can still get the best games that can be made. Really having the ESRB (or something that serves the same purpose) is really the best-case scenario for gaming.
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Funny how this whole thread is about possible censorship, and not a word is spent regarding good taste...
This game want to be realistic (well, as much as something that want magic in can be realistic) fantasy simulator. Certain body parts (involving making more of dorfs), certain products (from... behind) and similiar things WILL eventually be in (assuming that developing will not stop before then).
If you are offended by game that contains this kind of thing, go play something else. If you are offended by reality*, I offer fast way out, involving a few gram of lead.
*Pretending that certain things does not exist is in itself immature and retarded.
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Ooh! Sig me! Sig me!
And the ESRB is silly.
<snip>
Don't be so quick to say bad things about the ESRB. If you're 17+ (which the huge margin of gamers actually are) then their markings cause zero impact on your gaming experience. But if there wasn't the ability for game makers to mark their games "M", then people would demand that ALL games be safe for kids. This way those who want to protect their kids (a reasonable, or unreasonable amount) can be satisfied, and gamers can still get the best games that can be made. Really having the ESRB (or something that serves the same purpose) is really the best-case scenario for gaming.
Uh... no? No.
Really man.
I can't even follow your train of thought, much less agree with it.
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Why not? His reasoning's very clear. People are going to want to keep their young children from playing extremely violent/sexual games. Now, were there no rating system, some parents, in their over-zealousness would just completely block off their children from all videogames, or insist that all games be censored to an "appropriate" level. However, with the ratings system, those very concerned parents can still "protect" their young children, while the gaming industry can still produce more raunchy titles. As mature gamers, we just ignore the ratings anyway, so it doesn't really affect us at all. Everybody wins; the parents can censor what their kids view as they desire, and we still get to play whatever we want.
In more regards to the opening topic, more specific body parts means my dwarves will have to start actually mating, which is just one more task to keep them from building my fortress of DOOM.
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They anyway sleep in the same bed together - if they are married but i hope that changes too - they party together etc. So there are many chances where they can get theyr share of intimate intercourse. Two Lovers going of from a party to have sex? Why not thats pretty common. Heh it could lead even to our first actual crime "Public nuisance" if the dont find a private place / get caught (in a someone others bed).
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Now that you mention it, I does seem like this thread was engineered by someone in a certain political party to cause chaos and disorder among the ranks of the forums. Then said person could in, theory, emerge as the leader of said party and take over the forum government, and then cremate all the beardless forumites. Hail to the chief, baby!
Actually that was my intention. So.... Baw to my will!!!
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If you are offended by reality, I offer fast way out, involving a few gram of lead.
If I wasn't limiting myself to dwarf-related quotes in my sig, I'd totally put this in there.
those very concerned parents can still "protect" their young children
Yeah, until the kid gets online and finds this weird game with all the letters and the little faces... :D
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As for this game hitting FATAL levels of perversion... I hate to break it to you, but we're already a bunch of raw-intestines eating, childfall-creating, Goblin-Fortress making, blood pool for the blood god clamoring, slave-wanting, elf and kitten torturous and genocidal group, here. If rock bottom yet lies below us, it isn't very far. (I think the thing that sets us apart from FATAL at this point is forced abortions by melee combat (I.E. the "FALCON PUNCH" crowd), extremely detailed play-by-play rules for sex/rape, and an obvious hardon for professional wrestling. Heck, you can even roll for anal circumference if you mod anuses into your creatures.)
Dwarf Fortress actually also already has forced abortions by melee combat, or just being beaten up. I've seen no end of female, newly married mayors get beaten up by tantrumming haulers who wanted to be consoled, and then have the "Had a miscarriage lately" thought appear in their heads. Usually the mayor goes insane shortly after.
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Now that you mention it, I does seem like this thread was engineered by someone in a certain political party to cause chaos and disorder among the ranks of the forums. Then said person could in, theory, emerge as the leader of said party and take over the forum government, and then cremate all the beardless forumites. Hail to the chief, baby!
Actually that was my intention. So.... Baw bow to my will!!!
Human Dwarf Spellcheck to the rescue! Fix'd
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If you are offended by reality, I offer fast way out, involving a few gram of lead.
Yoink! :D
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As for this game hitting FATAL levels of perversion... I hate to break it to you, but we're already a bunch of raw-intestines eating, childfall-creating, Goblin-Fortress making, blood pool for the blood god clamoring, slave-wanting, elf and kitten torturous and genocidal group, here. If rock bottom yet lies below us, it isn't very far. (I think the thing that sets us apart from FATAL at this point is forced abortions by melee combat (I.E. the "FALCON PUNCH" crowd), extremely detailed play-by-play rules for sex/rape, and an obvious hardon for professional wrestling. Heck, you can even roll for anal circumference if you mod anuses into your creatures.)
Dwarf Fortress actually also already has forced abortions by melee combat, or just being beaten up. I've seen no end of female, newly married mayors get beaten up by tantrumming haulers who wanted to be consoled, and then have the "Had a miscarriage lately" thought appear in their heads. Usually the mayor goes insane shortly after.
... And thus, we are one step closer to FATAL than I suspected.
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Honestly, I can't imagine why Toady wouldn't want the moral crusaders getting all up in his business. Donations would triple, no joke.
Even more fun would be if a firefighting technique usable by half the population was implemented.. well, those that haven't had a certain severed part fly off in an arc.
Edit: Seriously? Moral crusaders? Here? We've already got a waterfall made of children, teenage girls being beaten with axes, temper tantrums involving maces, fell moods, animal torture, clowns, and all kinds of gruesome M-rated stuff. We've got decapitation and limb removal galore. Why does it only become a problem when it happens to someone's PINGAS?
One word: Lawsuit.
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Honestly, I can't imagine why Toady wouldn't want the moral crusaders getting all up in his business. Donations would triple, no joke.
Even more fun would be if a firefighting technique usable by half the population was implemented.. well, those that haven't had a certain severed part fly off in an arc.
Edit: Seriously? Moral crusaders? Here? We've already got a waterfall made of children, teenage girls being beaten with axes, temper tantrums involving maces, fell moods, animal torture, clowns, and all kinds of gruesome M-rated stuff. We've got decapitation and limb removal galore. Why does it only become a problem when it happens to someone's PINGAS?
One word: Lawsuit.
Your Honor, the moral and psychological health of my only son was jeopardized today when, on his computer, he had downloaded the dwarf game made by this frog-man, upon which he did see the word "penis" greyed out. On reading the log files we found out that the severed part had, and I quote, "sailed off in an arc". We demand damages of twelve million dollars for his exposure to such material.
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Most problems can easily be removed with a little warning message similar to LCS, but a tad more sensible.
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Honestly, I can't imagine why Toady wouldn't want the moral crusaders getting all up in his business. Donations would triple, no joke.
Even more fun would be if a firefighting technique usable by half the population was implemented.. well, those that haven't had a certain severed part fly off in an arc.
Edit: Seriously? Moral crusaders? Here? We've already got a waterfall made of children, teenage girls being beaten with axes, temper tantrums involving maces, fell moods, animal torture, clowns, and all kinds of gruesome M-rated stuff. We've got decapitation and limb removal galore. Why does it only become a problem when it happens to someone's PINGAS?
One word: Lawsuit.
Your Honor, the moral and psychological health of my only son was jeopardized today when, on his computer, he had downloaded the dwarf game made by this frog-man, upon which he did see the word "penis" greyed out. On reading the log files we found out that the severed part had, and I quote, "sailed off in an arc". We demand damages of twelve million dollars for his exposure to such material.
Can they even do that? Toady does not advertise DF nor does he sell copies. As such DF is even more a work of art then a Game. Its like sueing a museum because they have a replica of leonardos david or some Dürer pictures with (half-)Naked woman.
edit: Spelled Dürer wrong.
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Honestly, I can't imagine why Toady wouldn't want the moral crusaders getting all up in his business. Donations would triple, no joke.
Even more fun would be if a firefighting technique usable by half the population was implemented.. well, those that haven't had a certain severed part fly off in an arc.
Edit: Seriously? Moral crusaders? Here? We've already got a waterfall made of children, teenage girls being beaten with axes, temper tantrums involving maces, fell moods, animal torture, clowns, and all kinds of gruesome M-rated stuff. We've got decapitation and limb removal galore. Why does it only become a problem when it happens to someone's PINGAS?
One word: Lawsuit.
Your Honor, the moral and psychological health of my only son was jeopardized today when, on his computer, he had downloaded the dwarf game made by this frog-man, upon which he did see the word "penis" greyed out. On reading the log files we found out that the severed part had, and I quote, "sailed off in an arc". We demand damages of twelve million dollars for his exposure to such material.
Can they even do that? Toady does not advertise DF nor does he sell copies. As such DF is even more a work of art then a Game. Its like sueing a museum because they have a replica of leonardos david or some Dürür pictures with (half-)Naked woman.
I think that may have been hits point, such a complaint is absurd.
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Can they even do that?
Not with any hope of victory, they can't. More realistically, Toady's probably worried about getting harassed over email by various groups with sticks up their asses. He's too much of a busy Beelzebufo to deal with shit like that.
DF, even in its current incarnation, probably does need a disclaimer, though. An epic disclaimer.
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Think about it for a second guys, its the beards.
The bigger a dwarves beard the better, the longer the more lady dwarves they will get, and the more cats will follow them.
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Can they even do that? Toady does not advertise DF nor does he sell copies. As such DF is even more a work of art then a Game. Its like sueing a museum because they have a replica of leonardos david or some Dürer pictures with (half-)Naked woman.
edit: Spelled Dürer wrong.
Actually, museums do occasionally get protests, lawsuits, and boycotts because of things like nudity or art that ridicules religion or someone painting a black Jesus or something along those lines.
If you're lucky, the curator will personally come out and flip the protesters the bird while saying, in far more polite legalese, "It's ART, bitches! Nuthin' you can do about it!"
I would say that the reason Toady doesn't put it in is more the "unnecessary" part than anything else... I mean, Hell, we already have forced abortions by violence, apparently, alongside a player base that basically tries to rival Hitler in terms of raw genocidal malevolence and pointless cruelty. What could you possibly add in terms of game content that REALLY makes something like that worse?
The only thing that would bring down moral guardians is actually having pictures, because nobody cares about text descriptions of sex, it's only actually seeing a woo-woo or a taa-taa on screen that sets the Helen Lovejoys off.
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*Dr Cox voice*: Gosh Barbie its vagiana and penis get over it.
Seriously we should all grown up enough to call genitalia by theyr names.
Black jesus: Chances are good that he was more the Arabian/caucasian Type then this halfblonde straight haired white idol but that is another discussion.
As for the playerbase ... well its not like they harm anyone in reality by doing it in df and the biggest part of this community is pretty tame - geeks, furrys, girls and all the akwardness of the internet but still pretty tame. Sure you have one or two extreme examples but which (average) community has no more extreme members?
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You have here a simulator which lets you drown/melt/impale/? babies, if you so feel, and you're saying the developer is worried about including breasts as a body part that you can't even see? Really? That's about as dumb as suggesting that Alyx from Half-Life 2 should have a male hit-box.
Methinks we have here an untrue comment that's growing out of control. Or an over-sensitive developer. I understand that some people have a problem with the visual, possibly sexual, representation of these objects in places where children might encounter them, but come on.
Personally, I think we have too many body parts at the moment (do we really need to know about the status of each finger? Its temperature, its wounds? And yet dwarves can't figure out which is their own bed? ???) and there's no need to differentiate breasts from the upper torso. Besides, male dwarves probably have moobs (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_fDIDD-nugxA/R49LVhFaC5I/AAAAAAAAAe4/hKJ17x9N-Sc/s1600-h/moobs4.jpg) too.
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You have here a simulator which lets you drown/melt/impale/? babies, if you so feel, and you're saying the developer is worried about including breasts as a body part that you can't even see? Really? That's about as dumb as suggesting that Alyx from Half-Life 2 should have a male hit-box.
Methinks we have here an untrue comment that's growing out of control. Or an over-sensitive developer. I understand that some people have a problem with the visual, possibly sexual, representation of these objects in places where children might encounter them, but come on.
Hey, hey, hey, don't compare the art of dead-baby comedy to 12 year olds inevitably giggling at breast-grab messages...
In all seriousness, I don't think it would add anything good to the game. Other than tasteless humor. Groin attacks would be fine though, since the make sense combat-wise. Grabbing someone by the mammaries, not so much. The clothes or armor in the way of such attack provide a much better handle anyway.
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Punching a woman in the breasts is actually a very effective way to disable her. Not speaking from my own experience, of course; I have never had to defend against a physical attack from a woman, so I just know the theory concerning such.
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Punching a woman in the breasts is actually a very effective way to disable her. Not speaking from my own experience, of course; I have never had to defend against a physical attack from a woman, so I just know the theory concerning such.
I know it's a sensitive place, but I really doubt it will hurt enough to do more than piss off anyone already in adrenaline haze. It may vary, but it's hardly the female equivalent of kick in the balls.
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In all seriousness, I don't think it would add anything good to the game. Other than tasteless humor. Groin attacks would be fine though, since the make sense combat-wise. Grabbing someone by the mammaries, not so much. The clothes or armor in the way of such attack provide a much better handle anyway.
*giggles* Ahem. I didn't just giggle or anything..... I would grab the mammaries with my dwarf leather whip just for the kinkyness of it all.
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Punching a woman in the breasts is actually a very effective way to disable her.
This would prove pretty hard with female dwarven fighters, seen the fact that they use babies for shields.
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It does strike me as odd that the game does have sweetbread but omits the you-know-what's. why is it fine to have that level of detail in dishes, but not prior to preparation?
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Well... I for one don't want to have to think about sex in relation to any video game. It's been a deal-breaker for me in the past.
I think the best argument for keeping naughty bits out of Dwarf Fortress is that it's going to offend some people if they're included, but nobody's suffering if they're not. There's nothing stopping the people who are really desperate for it from modding it in for themselves, but including it from the start will likely make some people avoid the game altogether.
I agree neutering for pets should go in eventually, but that hardly requires the relevent parts to be present in the body plan. I imagine it'll be more of a "Can have offspring? yes/no" deal.
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FUKKEN INCLUDE EVERYTHING!
And now that that's said: Moral Outrage is great publicity.
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There are a lot of things in DF that could be classed as not needed so think about that before you say *insert bodypart here* isn't needed people.For a start,why do we need pus in DF?or vomit?because it makes it realistic and Fun
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Actually, vomit and pus very rarely if ever result in Fun. They can be fun, but so far they have no effect on whether or not there is Fun.
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It could get thrown at you or something. Dangerous stuff man.