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Other Projects => Other Games => Topic started by: a1s on February 09, 2017, 11:49:11 pm

Title: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: a1s on February 09, 2017, 11:49:11 pm
The lack of a Paradox General makes me sad.

It's hard to deny that Paradox is as much a style as it is a game developer. You can discuss it here.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Crusader Universals of Iron: Heart of Stella
Post by: Teneb on February 10, 2017, 12:14:42 pm
I detect a distressing lack of Victoria in that title.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Crusader Universals of Iron: Heart of Stella
Post by: Xgamer4 on February 10, 2017, 12:42:57 pm
Proposal: Amend the title to "Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stella"
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Crusader Universals of Iron: Heart of Stella
Post by: JimboM12 on February 10, 2017, 12:45:13 pm
I detect a distressing lack of Victoria in that title.

The moment i read that my mind went "Hey Vicky, you're so fine, you're so fine you blow my mind, hey Vicky."

Hey, Im bored and have the house to myself on a Friday.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Crusader Universals of Iron: Heart of Stella
Post by: PTTG?? on February 10, 2017, 03:14:27 pm
God damn do I want a classical era simulator.

So I can finally go back to the dawn of time and work my way forward from there.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread
Post by: a1s on February 10, 2017, 04:12:16 pm
I detect a distressing lack of Victoria in that title.
That "Heart" was meant as "of Darkness", but I see how you would think it was iron.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: PTTG?? on February 10, 2017, 05:26:47 pm
It also needs a Cites:Skylines byline.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Digital Hellhound on February 10, 2017, 05:34:08 pm
It also needs a Cites:Skylines byline.

I don't think games that Paradox only publishes count. Or fit in that space.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Teneb on February 10, 2017, 05:43:05 pm
God damn do I want a classical era simulator.

So I can finally go back to the dawn of time and work my way forward from there.
There's EU:Rome, the lost link the in the grand strategy chain. Too bad there's not going to be a second one from the looks of it.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on February 10, 2017, 05:45:15 pm
Can we get East vs West back in development?
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: MrRoboto75 on February 10, 2017, 06:35:11 pm
The Economy, fools!
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: a1s on February 10, 2017, 06:53:40 pm
There's also that whole shared universe of Ardania (Majesty, Impire, Warlock, etc.) I don't, myself, consider it part of Paradox proper, but we can discuss it.
<crotchety old person rant> I really liked Majesty one. It had a healthy sense of self-irony. </crotchety old person rant>
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Cruxador on February 10, 2017, 08:16:45 pm
There's also that whole shared universe of Ardania (Majesty, Impire, Warlock, etc.) I don't, myself, consider it part of Paradox proper, but we can discuss it.
<crotchety old person rant> I really liked Majesty one. It had a healthy sense of self-irony. </crotchety old person rant>
I liked the original Majesty, and the expansion. I could never get into the sequel, for gameplay reasons, and never tried to get into the spinoffs. Except Heroes of Ardania, but that was fan-made. I didn't like where the lore was going from the second installment, though. Elves that aren't worthless blue degenerates? What's even the point?
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Karnewarrior on February 10, 2017, 10:30:16 pm
So when last I converted a game from EUIV to Vicky II there seemed to be a bug where no mechanical parts factories were generated and so I had a monopoly on factories for most of the early game.

Is that fixed, does anyone know?
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: George_Chickens on February 11, 2017, 12:43:35 am
The converters are generally quite dead, which makes me sad. I'd love the Darkest Hour converter to work again.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Digital Hellhound on February 11, 2017, 04:15:06 am
Oh, have they stopped working on the V2 converter? It works still, at least. Can't say about that bug, but my extensive manufactories were converted pretty weirdly into factories - a handful in the state of my EUIV capital. My economy is also in shambles. From second-most powerful nation in EUIV to weakest Great Power in V2, ouch. Still a great converter.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on February 11, 2017, 09:17:12 pm
Yeah console commands are going to have to be used if you want to play a converted game.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Karnewarrior on February 12, 2017, 03:04:03 am
To clean up the bordergore from CKII if nothing else :P
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: scriver on February 12, 2017, 09:38:45 am
God damn do I want a classical era simulator.

So I can finally go back to the dawn of time and work my way forward from there.
There's EU:Rome, the lost link the in the grand strategy chain. Too bad there's not going to be a second one from the looks of it.

I'm posting to watch, and also to inform you that I will not stand for this kind of treacherous lies.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Glloyd on February 15, 2017, 02:11:01 am
The converters are generally quite dead, which makes me sad. I'd love the Darkest Hour converter to work again.

No they're not. The main ones are still in active development.

https://github.com/Idhrendur/paradoxGameConverters/releases

EUIV to V2 last had a release on Jan 14th, and V2 to HOI 4 is under development, with the most recent release dating from the end of January.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Man of Paper on February 15, 2017, 05:07:02 am
Don't you know that's dead in internet timhhhuurrrrkkkkk
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: E. Albright on February 15, 2017, 01:59:27 pm
There's also that whole shared universe of Ardania (Majesty, Impire, Warlock, etc.) I don't, myself, consider it part of Paradox proper, but we can discuss it.
<crotchety old person rant> I really liked Majesty one. It had a healthy sense of self-irony. </crotchety old person rant>

As another crotchety old person, I have to say that in a lot of ways Warlock II (haven't played Warlock I, but it looks like the same thing with a slightly smaller featureset) is the closest I've seen a game come to feeling like Master of Magic. The by-faction narrowness of units feels a bit more Age-of-Wondery, and the magic system is way too generalized, but aside from that it really struck me as very much like MoM with a mostly-modern UI...
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Cruxador on February 27, 2017, 12:16:32 pm
Hm. Maybe I should do and AAR a grand campaign, then. I guess I'll start that after I finish my current AAR or when Monks and Mystics drops. Not sure how fully done the HoI converter is, since its version number starts with 0 and the stuff listed in "the next release will focus on" seems like the most important bit.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Glloyd on February 27, 2017, 12:19:25 pm
You can always convert V2 to HoI 3, that converter's fully fleshed out already.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Cruxador on February 27, 2017, 12:53:07 pm
You can always convert V2 to HoI 3, that converter's fully fleshed out already.
Then I would need to git gud.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: PTTG?? on February 27, 2017, 01:17:28 pm
Still waiting on the HoI -> Stellaris converter.

Presumably whichever nation blobs the hardest in HoI determines the name schemes and ethos of the Stellaris empire?
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Cruxador on February 27, 2017, 01:30:17 pm
Still waiting on the HoI -> Stellaris converter.

Presumably whichever nation blobs the hardest in HoI determines the name schemes and ethos of the Stellaris empire?
Stellaris is so simple that it may be easier to do manually. What would a converted game even have? Custom namelists and maybe some custom factions to start out. Everything else, you could just pick what lines up best manually. And namelists would be pretty easy to do manually anyway.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: PTTG?? on February 27, 2017, 02:15:39 pm
There is one problem... a Nazi victory in HoI would almost definitely lead to a reduction of the phenotypical variety of the leader portraits... and there's already been a mod along those lines.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Teneb on February 27, 2017, 03:45:28 pm
There is one problem... a Nazi victory in HoI would almost definitely lead to a reduction of the phenotypical variety of the leader portraits... and there's already been a mod along those lines.
Wasn't that mod taken down? I do know it inspired a mod for CK2 that turns everyone into ethiopians.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Cruxador on February 27, 2017, 05:36:00 pm
There is one problem... a Nazi victory in HoI would almost definitely lead to a reduction of the phenotypical variety of the leader portraits... and there's already been a mod along those lines.
Wasn't that mod taken down? I do know it inspired a mod for CK2 that turns everyone into ethiopians.
It's on Steam, but there might have been some drama over it at the Paradox forums.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Culise on February 28, 2017, 02:51:22 pm
There was, but it was only after the Steam Workshop mod was taken down.  That was more because of some discussion in the comments that turned ugly; as such, they nuked the mod from orbit.  This revelation created its own host of drama, though, since it opened the gates to the idea that certain users might "commentbomb" any mods they might not like.  There are still a myriad of mods that divide humans by phenotype, including Caucasian-only, though.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 28, 2017, 03:17:26 pm
Yep, the mod still exists... https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=685069894

I might do a LP along those lines for fun actually. Spess nazis.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Cruxador on February 28, 2017, 11:53:44 pm
Yep, the mod still exists... https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=685069894

I might do a LP along those lines for fun actually. Spess nazis.
No, it wasn't that one. It was this one: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=687816935
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Tawa on September 27, 2017, 09:59:34 pm
Might as well necro this.

Would anybody be interested in a Victoria 2 succession game? I was thinking that we would play a country with elections--I had the U.S. in mind, specifically--and switch players every time there was an election.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: RexMundi on September 27, 2017, 11:09:16 pm
sounds like it could be fun. Vanilla?
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Tawa on March 02, 2018, 11:08:34 pm
Shameless Victoria 2 lp plug (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169706.0)

Not the aforementioned succession game, but thought you guys may be interested. Bit of a narrative LP, relatively granular updates. Currently at 1842.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Radsoc on May 19, 2018, 06:28:45 am
No idea what type of game Imperator is, but I wonder what it means to the prospects of Vic 3. No release this year for sure, and probably not next year either.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Persus13 on May 19, 2018, 08:28:55 am
No idea what type of game Imperator is, but I wonder what it means to the prospects of Vic 3. No release this year for sure, and probably not next year either.
https://www.paradoxplaza.com/imperator-rome/IMIM01GSK0000001-MASTER.html
 (https://www.paradoxplaza.com/imperator-rome/IMIM01GSK0000001-MASTER.html/)

The screenshots from this look like a pretty standard Paradox game. I've never played EU: Rome, but this looks like what I'd imagine a post CKII/EUIV EU: Rome to look like.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Teneb on May 19, 2018, 08:36:16 am
Well, shit. Pdox Rome 2. Never thought I'd see the day.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: scriver on May 19, 2018, 09:10:31 am
IT'S HAPPENING! IT'S FINALLY HAPPENING! OH JOY THAT I LIVE TO SEE THIS DAY! B
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Jopax on May 19, 2018, 09:22:49 am
They also announced another DLC for HoI4, Man the Guns, naval themed of course. Preorders are already up with some random bonus stuff (nothing in-game from the looks of it) even though there's been zero features announced for it at this time, so that's fun.

(and yes this should prolly go into the HoI4 thread but I cba looking for that atm)
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on May 19, 2018, 09:34:25 am
No idea what type of game Imperator is, but I wonder what it means to the prospects of Vic 3. No release this year for sure, and probably not next year either.

I could easily see it being another Sengeku, or whatever the Japanese feudal-simulator was called. The one that was a prototype for CK2's mechanics and which was dropped as soon as CK2 came out. More or less. I could easily be wrong with the details.

Rome 2's focus on pops and goods production is very Victoria-like, so it could be testing the waters for Vicky 3. But I've also heard that none of the higher ups in Paradox want to champion Vicky 3 because Vicky 2 has a lot of rabid fanboys who will tear that game apart of it doesn't meet their expectations so... I wouldn't be surprised if Rome 2 became its own thing instead. It is an interesting historical period which Paradox hasn't explored much and breaking new ground might be more appealing to the developers than rehashing a beloved classic.

Not much we can do but wait and see though.

They also announced another DLC for HoI4, Man the Guns, naval themed of course.

No surprises here, since naval combat in HoI4 has always been... Lackluster to say the least. The only real question was whether it would be the next DLC they were working on or the one after, given the hints they've dropped. Inb4 everyone complains about them working on the next DLC while China is still busted.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Wiles on May 19, 2018, 10:08:36 am
They also announced a Crusader Kings boardgame kickstarter. I'm so tempted, I love boardgames, and CKII is one of my all time favourite PC games. But I don't really like the idea of kickstarting first run boardgames, it could turn out to be bad, or even just mediocre, and mediocre games rarely make it to the table after being played once if you have a group with a large selection of boardgames to choose from. But it could be amazing.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1192053011/crusader-kings-the-board-game-lead-your-dynasty-to
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Teneb on May 19, 2018, 10:36:59 am
There is a store page with screenshots (https://www.paradoxplaza.com/imperator-rome/IMIM01GSK0000001-MASTER.html) of Imperator, for those wondering what it looks like.

Quote from: Announced features

    Character Management: A living world of characters with varying skills and traits that will change over time. They will lead your nation, govern your provinces and command your armies and fleets. We also introduce our new, more human-like character art.

    Diverse Populations: Citizens, freemen, tribesmen and slaves - each population with its own culture and religion. Whether they fill your armies, fill your coffers or fill your colonies, keep an eye on their happiness - your success depends on their satisfaction.

    Battle Tactics: Choose your approach before battle to counter the stratagems of your foes.

    Military Traditions: Each culture has a unique way of waging war. Romans and Celts have different options available to them. Unlock unique bonuses, abilities and units.

    Different Government Types: Manage the senate in a Republic, hold your court together in a monarchy, answer to the clans in a tribal system.

    Barbarians and Rebellions: Migrating barbarians may sack or settle your best land, while disloyal governors or generals can turn against you - taking their armies with them!

    Trade: Goods provide bonuses to their home province. Will you take advantage of stockpiles for local strength or trade excess goods to spread the wealth around?

    Provincial Improvement: Invest in buildings, roads and defences to make your kingdom stronger and richer.


Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: scriver on May 19, 2018, 11:49:12 am
India aside, also take a look at Carthage, specifically it's super thin coastline and it's teeny tiny holdings on the Massaesylian coast. Very small counties, or something new in the way of provinces?

For reference, one of my main issues with EU: Rome was that it did a very bad job of portraying the idea that a state may hold a city or colony, or even control the whole coastline, while controlling nothing of the interior of the province (see basically every Greek and Carthaginian colony ever). You either controlled the entirety of a province or nothing. Of you colonised a county you didn't build a harbour or a trading port, you basically genocided the entire area.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: ZeroGravitas on May 19, 2018, 12:33:13 pm
wouldn't be a paradox map if india wasn't way, way too small
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: scriver on May 19, 2018, 02:02:38 pm
We should be happy the map doesn't look like this!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Culise on May 19, 2018, 06:40:13 pm
I wonder; a map like that could be rather stylish.  Maybe something that rips off Posidonius (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a4/Worldmaphedo.jpg) or Ptolemy (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/Ptolemy-World_Vat_Urb_82.jpg).


EDIT: Actually, aesthetically speaking, I did like the old EU maps.  I mean, even if the provinces or landforms weren't always the best...
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: ZeroGravitas on May 19, 2018, 07:13:11 pm
I wonder; a map like that could be rather stylish.  Maybe something that rips off Posidonius (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a4/Worldmaphedo.jpg) or Ptolemy (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/Ptolemy-World_Vat_Urb_82.jpg).


EDIT: Actually, aesthetically speaking, I did like the old EU maps.  I mean, even if the provinces or landforms weren't always the best...

it's a similar problem actually

like they get that arabian peninsula is big, but indian subcontinent should be 50% larger, or about the size of 6 frances

it's just so fucking dumb.

honestly i'm really losing interest in paradox games, especially after the debacle that stellaris has been. 2 years to implement a bunch of shit that was immediately obvious on release (e.g. tiles are garbage).

if clausewitz games can't be bothered to implement a properly curved map with correct projections and area, fuck them. i'm done with their lazy shit.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on May 19, 2018, 08:12:40 pm
Frustration festering and boiling and turning into something far worse?
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: ZeroGravitas on May 19, 2018, 08:16:00 pm
Don't blame Paradox, blame the projection. Specifically this one, which is the one they're probably using (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equidistant_conic_projection).

So, uh, yeah. It's a "correct projection" insomuch that it is an actual cartographic projection that they're using here. Not sure why you're losing your shit over this.

i don't know what's in that specific picture, but paradox generally uses a smashed-up edit of whatever they think works best, not anything recognizable.

just look at the eu4 map if you don't know what i mean.

because they regularly have deformation favoring northern hemispheres and arctics, i'm guessing they're actually closer to mercator, while NA/SA north in order to make tierra del fuego line up with cape of good hope on a straight line.

it's just nonsense.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Cruxador on May 19, 2018, 08:47:06 pm
The worst part is, these games are played on a computer, not a tabletop. There's literally no reason we can't have a globe.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Culise on May 19, 2018, 09:17:49 pm
The worst part is, these games are played on a computer, not a tabletop. There's literally no reason we can't have a globe.
To be fair, that's probably the precise reason the engine was designed with a two-dimensional map instead of a three-dimensional globe: Europa Universalis started life as a board game.  We've ended up stuck with that decision through both the Europa and Clausewitz engines; even Stellaris is fundamentally two-dimensional.  I wonder how much it would cost to rebuild the engine to render as a globe.  It wouldn't change the node-type province system any, so it'd be essentially cosmetic, but I wouldn't think it to be that easy. 
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Karnewarrior on May 19, 2018, 09:32:27 pm
I'd bet the hard part would be getting things to look not-silly when the map transitioned from 2D to 3D. Because actually playing on a globe might be too much for some people, like my father who I just found out thinks a quintillion isn't a real number.

Some people just can't into non-euclidean geometry. Best not to cut out part of the fanbase just because of some distortion. Make the indian provinces smaller and cram more in there, those are what matter anyway.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on May 19, 2018, 09:39:39 pm
I wonder how much it would cost to rebuild the engine to render as a globe.  It wouldn't change the node-type province system any, so it'd be essentially cosmetic, but I wouldn't think it to be that easy.

For HoI4, CK2, EU4 and so on, the map is saved as a series of image files. This file has a bunch of coloured blobs that correspond to a province, that file has the terrain and so on. So converting that system to work with a globe would not be very easy, since things would have to stretch or be chopped off which would undoubtedly cause lots of headaches. Not to mention how it'd impact modding, which forms a not insignificant portion of Paradox's popularity.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Tawa on May 20, 2018, 12:14:36 am
Imperator looking good there. I bought Rome I a little while back, and, uh. I dunno how I feel about it. My main issue is, well, imagine if your CKII court had about 100 people in it all of the time, and anytime anything happened to one of them--even someone you'd never heard of, who just has some minor senate position or something--you get a popup notification about it, just as big as if someone had declared war on you. Additionally, everybody's names are practically indistinguishable because they're all something like "Marcus Gaius Tarantum" or "Julius Gaius Usum" or "Usus Gusus Ususum".

Also, some fool recommended me Macedonia as a starter nation. Macedonia, as far as I can tell, has two options: brutally die at the hands of barbarians from Tylis, or gain barely any territory in the peace deal because the game has the EU4 pre-Art of War system where who gets what territory depends entirely on who occupied the province in the first place. (Additionally, the game's got a ridiculous system for gaining casus belli--the most reliable way to do it is order someone in an enemy country assassinated and hope the assassin gets executed.)

So a modernized version of Rome would be great. I'm not really that into Roman history (though I am currently periodically listening to Mike Duncan's History of Rome podcast,) but it's an interesting time period that definitely deserves a Paradox game. My main hope is that they go on to expand the game through the imperial period via expansions--the Republic is neat and all, but the Empire is where it's at, IMO.

India aside, also take a look at Carthage, specifically it's super thin coastline and it's teeny tiny holdings on the Massaesylian coast. Very small counties, or something new in the way of provinces?
From what I've heard, they're changing things so that each province has multiple cities in it--and you don't necessarily control all the cities in the province--to add another layer of granularity. Great move IMO, I just hope they optimize the game a little better than EU4 so that it can handle all those provinces.

E: In the screenshot, most of Iberia and almost everything northeast of Germania and the Danube is greyed out. Do you think it's terra incognita, uncolonized, or wasteland?
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: scriver on May 20, 2018, 06:50:40 am
E: In the screenshot, most of Iberia and almost everything northeast of Germania and the Danube is greyed out. Do you think it's terra incognita, uncolonized, or wasteland?

Terra incognita, probably - iirc EU:Rome had a "known world" system akin to EUs where you'd learn about the world through trade and over time.

"Uncolonised land" is another thing I didn't like about EU:R, though. The way they implemented it, that is.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Teneb on May 20, 2018, 09:03:50 am
E: In the screenshot, most of Iberia and almost everything northeast of Germania and the Danube is greyed out. Do you think it's terra incognita, uncolonized, or wasteland?

Terra incognita, probably - iirc EU:Rome had a "known world" system akin to EUs where you'd learn about the world through trade and over time.

"Uncolonised land" is another thing I didn't like about EU:R, though. The way they implemented it, that is.
You can compare Iberia with Siberia, in the northeast of the screenshot. Siberia is dark grey while Iberia (and Africa) is light gray.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Tawa on May 20, 2018, 11:36:43 am
Tbh, I feel like with uncolonized territory in EU: Rome, they had a point with it. If you're going to have a system where the "uncivilized people" are so weak you can just take their land instantly with the only threat being periodic border attacks, then it was only fair that they did it to most of the Gallic and German barbarians if they were going to do it to most of the native Americans in the main games.
E: In the screenshot, most of Iberia and almost everything northeast of Germania and the Danube is greyed out. Do you think it's terra incognita, uncolonized, or wasteland?

Terra incognita, probably - iirc EU:Rome had a "known world" system akin to EUs where you'd learn about the world through trade and over time.

"Uncolonised land" is another thing I didn't like about EU:R, though. The way they implemented it, that is.
You can compare Iberia with Siberia, in the northeast of the screenshot. Siberia is dark grey while Iberia (and Africa) is light gray.
I'd noticed that as well, but I wasn't sure if it meant something or if was just, like, a lighting difference or something like that.

My main point of confusion is Iberia, though. I'd figure it was just unexplored or uncolonized if it weren't for the fact that the Sahara is the same color. Doesn't make an awful lot of sense for 65% of Iberia to not exist, imo.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: scriver on May 25, 2018, 10:04:48 am
Somebody counted the amount of nations/states in southern Italy and Greece:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

There are a couple of mistakes like counting Carthaginian colonies several times but yeah, 50-ish sovereign entities in the region.

This Rock Paper Shotgun article (https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/05/23/imperator-rome-has-a-world-ripe-for-conquest/) states that there are 7000 cities and 400 playable states which sounds awesome. It also seems from what I've gleamed from things said that "cities" might be the new baseline counties or provinces of the game, which feels fitting.

It also says:
Quote
Though it has shed the name, Imperator is still a sequel to Europa Universalis: Rome, where nations are the focus, rather than dynasties. Instead of playing individuals across a bloodline, as you would in Crusader Kings, you’ll be taking command of city states, kingdoms and empires. In the south and east are superpowers and the legacies of Alexander, in the north there are countless squabbling tribes and then right in the middle of it all is the ambitious but initially weak Roman Republic.

“Countries not characters is my design philosophy,” says Andersson. “Henrik [Fåhraeus, Crusader Kings 2 game director] is more into characters.” That’s not to say that everything is abstracted or absent that human touch, however. These countries are still full of senators, generals, clan chiefs and various factions with special interests. While your end goal might be taking over as much of the world as you can, there’s still a lot of people management to do, whether that’s picking the best candidate for a governor position or dealing with your population of citizens and ethnic minorities.

...Which I am not as happy about. I feel that the proto-CK2 character aspect of EU:R was by far the best thing of the game and what made it stand out the most contra the EU3 it spun off of and what made the game fun. I have often thought to myself that you could see in EU:R the early stages of what would later be tried in Sengoku and applied in CK2.

It also feels like a bit of a slap against Fåhraeus because I remember how much he liked EU:R. I remember how he, after the the official development had been ceased on the game, he kept working to push out more patches in his off-work spare time just for the sake of the game (you see, EU:R was abandoned in an unfortunately shitty state where the latest patches had basically created a whole slew of fresh, game-breaking bugs). It felt a lot at the time like the game was his baby, so to speak.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Cruxador on May 25, 2018, 11:15:11 am
Well it does sound like character stuff is in, though. If Fåhraeus isn't working on this, there's a decent chance it's because he's working on CK3. They're still working on CK2 DLC, but he hasn't been (visibly) involved in it for a while, and it's been like half a year since they said that they'd be winding down on it (which means that this grab bag of features may well be the last DLC) so it's either that or he's retreated to a purely administrative role, which I doubt. Or he's working on Vicky 3 or something new, but I doubt that even more.

Also, EU: Rome came out long after Crusader Kings, and is way less character oriented, so I think the narrative of it as a predecessor to CK's sequel is a bit rough. I think Johan's statement is more about the paradigm of who you play as, and not about the depth of the character system. He may be saying it now in order to head off the many CK2 fans (who were disappointed at the shallow implementation of characters in Stellaris) or he may just be answering a question honestly, without a deeper marketing narrative. He may not be the same guy, but after Fåhraeus, he's the Paradox dev I trust second most to do a good job, and the proper pop system is probably his doing - and I wouldn't be surprised if we get a relatively deep trade system from him too, though the fact that it's not in the announcement may indicate that they're not yet confident it'll be a core feature of the game.

My main point of confusion is Iberia, though. I'd figure it was just unexplored or uncolonized if it weren't for the fact that the Sahara is the same color. Doesn't make an awful lot of sense for 65% of Iberia to not exist, imo.
My guess is that they just haven't implemented that bit yet, but they figured it would be good enough for the purpose of a promotional screenshot since it looks almost the same anyway.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Teneb on May 25, 2018, 11:54:03 am
My main point of confusion is Iberia, though. I'd figure it was just unexplored or uncolonized if it weren't for the fact that the Sahara is the same color. Doesn't make an awful lot of sense for 65% of Iberia to not exist, imo.
My guess is that they just haven't implemented that bit yet, but they figured it would be good enough for the purpose of a promotional screenshot since it looks almost the same anyway.
And if it isn't there due to a design decision, we can at least trust that it will be modded in rather fast.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 25, 2018, 12:32:05 pm
Posting to DLC watch
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Teneb on May 25, 2018, 12:35:44 pm
Posting to DLC watch
We should start a DLC betting pool, betting our precious e-peens on the theme/content of dlcs. Cosmetic ones don't count, too easy.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: scriver on May 25, 2018, 01:27:50 pm
I CALL DLC EXTENDING TP ALEXANDER TIME PERIOD AND MIGRAINE PERIOD/ROMEFALL
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Rockeater on May 25, 2018, 02:07:43 pm
PTW
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: scriver on May 28, 2018, 07:36:44 am
First development diary out today (https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/imperator-development-diary-1-28th-of-may-2018.1101600/). Mostly just words (and words are wind), but it gives us some answers to your questions about Iberia:


That's a lot of tribes.

So akin to how the white paint on the map turned out to be just Terra Incognita for Iberia, and not "uncolonized land" or wasteland, the same could probably be said for the eastern european areas on the previous map. The difference in colour is probably just variation on the "terra incognita" map overlay itself- you can see it on the minimap in the corner as well - and might not mean anything.

Quote from: Other stuff also in the article
  •     We’re removing characters as envoys, as that was a bad mechanic, and you primarily used to get rid of people.
  •     Omens and Religious Prestige were not very fun, and have been changed.
  •     Trade was lots of micromanagement, this have been reworked for a more interesting and fun mechanic.

edit:
Several proto-norse tribes are in. Glory!
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Cruxador on May 28, 2018, 10:05:41 am
Oh, yeah I've seen video of Johan presenting the game now, which is on YouTube, and I can confirm that the white is the same thing in both places and it's just aesthetic variation. Also, I think it actually is wasteland, but what it represents is not actually going to be wasteland in the final game, it's just that they haven't finished adding countries to the game. Which makes sense, they probably wanted to give their history team as long as reasonably possible to get lots of details figured out (and since provinces are replaced by individual cities, they'll need it) and there's no point in continually adding and refining stuff throughout the early part of the dev period if you're just going to have to redo it anyway.

Here's that video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=83FxSUjDvjc
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: A Thing on May 28, 2018, 01:21:59 pm
Posting to DLC watch
We should start a DLC betting pool, betting our precious e-peens on the theme/content of dlcs. Cosmetic ones don't count, too easy.

Alright: Successor States, Nomads, Germans, and Persians. Probably separate, but the germans/nomads and the succesor states/persians might be bundled into a bigger thing.

When does this start exactly? That map looks like right before Alexander the Great's conquests.

Edit: nevermind just watched the video and saw the Seleucids.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Teneb on May 28, 2018, 02:43:14 pm
When does this start exactly? That map looks like right before Alexander the Great's conquests.

Edit: nevermind just watched the video and saw the Seleucids.
It starts just after his death and ends at about year ~30.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Cruxador on May 28, 2018, 03:50:59 pm
When does this start exactly? That map looks like right before Alexander the Great's conquests.

Edit: nevermind just watched the video and saw the Seleucids.
It starts just after his death and ends at about year ~30.
It's all but guaranteed that they'll have a DLC to pull the start date back to Philip II of Macedon, with his life and Alexander's having scripted narrative events (like Charlemagne).
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Karnewarrior on May 29, 2018, 12:07:59 am
I'd more prefer DLC to match it up to CKII and allow save transferring.

Also Year 30 sounds like an awful auspicious date to end the game. It's like someone awfully important died around then...  ;)

But I'd very much like to see the spread of Christianity covered. I would have pegged the end of the game closer to like, 400 AD or something.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Cruxador on May 29, 2018, 01:24:49 am
Also Year 30 sounds like an awful auspicious date to end the game. It's like someone awfully important died around then...  ;)
Seems decidedly inauspicious to be honest.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: scriver on May 29, 2018, 02:41:45 am
Iirc the first game ended a few years before 0 with a message of someone special unknown person being born in the east...

But I'd very much like to see the spread of Christianity covered. I would have pegged the end of the game closer to like, 400 AD or something.

Me too, but it's definitely DLC material. Though some Germanic migration were already happening during the games timeframe (and, if I recall correctly, there was a large scale Celtic migration period just before the starting year), the massed migration that happened afterwards just wasn't seen, so I doubt there'll be mechanics to portray it properly. It's exactly the kind of thing that requires a focused expansion of it's own. It several.

Another DLC bet: One expanding religions/religious gameplay, mainly focusing on separating and endepthening Roman and Greek cults.

Based on the video showing that at least at this point - and I do want to point out that at this point it may very well still be a placeholder - Roman and Greek traditions are both seemingly covered under one Hellenic faith.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Glloyd on May 29, 2018, 03:02:05 am
Now that dev diaries are starting, should someone make a thread solely for Imperator?
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: scriver on May 29, 2018, 04:05:45 am
Nah, I don't think there's any need for that when we have this thread.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Teneb on May 29, 2018, 09:58:15 am
Nah, I don't think there's any need for that when we have this thread.
We probably should, but I'll wait for consensus.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on May 29, 2018, 10:17:36 am
I was just going into this thread to ask the same thing myself. So making a separate thread earns my vote.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: scriver on May 29, 2018, 10:22:52 am
While you wait for results from your pitofiable little democracy I cross the river Ebru and move my legions into Rome! All praise Ceasar! All hail the Imperator!
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Cruxador on May 29, 2018, 10:30:40 am
Based on the overall activity level of this thread and the amount of information available on Imperator, it may be a bit early to give it its  own thread.

Another DLC bet: One expanding religions/religious gameplay, mainly focusing on separating and endepthening Roman and Greek cults.

Based on the video showing that at least at this point - and I do want to point out that at this point it may very well still be a placeholder - Roman and Greek traditions are both seemingly covered under one Hellenic faith.
I wouldn't count on it. Consider how they handled the schism in CK2. And they're not that great with dynamic religious variations in general, and always seem to lump pagan  groups together rather than to differentiate, where possible. There could be a great system for assimilating indigenous religions by finding analogies, as the Roman's historically did, with time and/or mana costs depending on how different the religion is from your own, but Paradox's previous work is so heavily rooted in modern Abrahamic-oriented ideas of what religion should be that I really doubt they're going to do paganism right.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 29, 2018, 03:52:13 pm
CK2 needs another DLC content pushing the start date bavk to the 4th century and letting you play as Constantine and Julian the Apostste. Prevent the Great Schism by preventing Christianity from becoming ascendant in the first place
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Tawa on May 30, 2018, 12:05:53 am
Thought you guys might appreciate some screencaps from a vicky 2 Greece game I ran today while putting off updating my netherlands lp (warning: big, but they're jpgs so its cool)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

also it's been 20+ years since these screenshots and I still haven't gotten an east macedonia crisis to fire, despite me going out of my way to keep the temperature as high as possible 24/7
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Teneb on May 30, 2018, 08:18:22 am
-snip-
WTF Peru?
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Persus13 on May 30, 2018, 08:24:46 am
Victoria II is the Paradox game I've just been unable to get into. I want to learn it, but its learning curve is much steeper for me than the others. There any good Youtube let's plays in it that y'all could recommend? That's usually been my go to for figuring out how to get into a Paradox game I can't understand.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Sheb on May 30, 2018, 09:09:22 am
PTW.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Tawa on May 30, 2018, 09:48:07 pm
Victoria II is the Paradox game I've just been unable to get into. I want to learn it, but its learning curve is much steeper for me than the others. There any good Youtube let's plays in it that y'all could recommend? That's usually been my go to for figuring out how to get into a Paradox game I can't understand.
I'm sorry to say that I don't have any LPs to recommend, but I am curious what the issues you're having are. I love Vicky 2, probably moreso than the other Paradox games I've played, and I know the ins and outs reasonably well.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on May 30, 2018, 09:58:36 pm
Income in the mid/late game. How do you keep it stable? I did a run as Sweden/Scandinavia and had a good early game thanks to reading a bunch of guides. But in the late game my income just slowly slid down to the negatives and I had zero idea what was wrong or what I could do about it beyond boosting tariffs and taxes on the rich which are apparently terrible things to do long-term.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Tawa on May 31, 2018, 12:39:42 am
There could be a lot of causes for that. The best way to diagnose that issue is to keep the game paused and temporarily cut all your expenditures to nothing one by one and see what happens to your income; oftentimes, there'll be one big thing that's escaped your notice and wreaking havoc on your budget. The big ones for me there are usually:

- Cutting army/navy maintenance. Armies get more expensive over time due to supply consumption rising and population growth leading to army growth. In most of my games, unless my factories are really churning out cash, I can't afford to have a 100% maintained army around the clock. This is doubly so for navies, because they require a steady supply of ships to function and those things are expensive.
- Cutting government employee salaries. Once you've got clergy, bureaucrats, and soldiers/officers up to your desired levels, you can pretty safely cut their salaries down to about 25% to 50% without experiencing a notable number of undesired job changes. Soldier salaries are especially important--if you can't afford to cut army maintenance, then cutting soldier salaries is a decent short-term substitute.
- Streamlining the factories and cutting subsidies for anything that doesn't turn a profit. This was a big one for me at first--industrial subsidies can severely cut into your budget. A good rule of thumb, in my experience, is that any factories that are at least 3/5 staffed or so and still aren't turning a profit by about 1880 or 1890 will probably never work out and can be safely cut.

The reason tariffs and taxing the rich is bad is really important to understand, because both of those are very legitimate strategies if you need to use them or if the circumstances make their negatives irrelevant.

Tariffs are generally bad for any factories that require inputs your country doesn't have enough of. For scarce resources like sulfur, rubber, and the like, you will often need to expand your sphere of influence or colonize to obtain enough for reasonable levels of domestic production. Similarly, your pops need exotic goods like coffee, tea, tobacco, and opium that in many countries aren't readily available; tariffs will, on the whole, put a damper on your peoples' (and especially your working class') drug addictions; by itself, this won't do much, but lack of everyday needs like these can exacerbate tensions by raising militancy or consciousness. Tariffs are thus safe to use if your country or sphere of influence has access to all of the goods you need--mainly what your factories need, though very high tariffs are usually a bad idea. Also note that your intended tariff is different from your actual tariff--without a good administration creating high tax efficiency, you can set the tariffs at 100% and only have like 25% actual tariffs.

Taxing the rich is a problem for a similar reason. Under lassiez-faire and interventionism, your capitalists are your entire source of factories. Especially if you're playing a democracy or a country without access to state capitalist or planned economy policies, not having rich enough capitalists to build factories can be a long-term problem. However, if you have access to or mainly use state capitalism or planned economy, you can tax the rich as much as you like with few repercussions. Similarly, in the early game (when there are not as many capitalists and factories are generally unprofitable,) that slider can be a strong component of your economy.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: TamerVirus on May 31, 2018, 10:17:02 am
Anyone got any opinions on HoI 4+ DLC? Was pondering on picking it up. Does it have an absurd learning curve?  My only Paradox Grand Strategy experience is in CK2.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Sheb on May 31, 2018, 10:19:11 am
I only played the vanilla version, but it's IMO by far the easiest of the Paradox game to grasp.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: George_Chickens on May 31, 2018, 10:20:58 am
HOI4 is extremely straightforward and casual, you will be able to learn it no problem.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Cruxador on May 31, 2018, 10:43:30 am
Depends on how deep of an understanding you want. It shouldn't be very hard to just set war fronts and fight, but there are a lot of different numbers to muck about with, and for the most part, the game doesn't really tell you what they do or how much they matter.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: A Thing on May 31, 2018, 10:52:40 am
HOI 4 is the only Hearts of Iron game I've been able to get into, so I would say it's worth a try as a start.

The DLC is really not necessary unless you want to play specific factions. Since I mostly play Kaiserreich (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=809903394) it's not a big deal to me.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: scriver on May 31, 2018, 11:52:55 am
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: h3lblad3 on June 05, 2018, 06:10:35 pm
It's kind of funny that people keep saying they want Paradox games to go from Rome to CK. It'll never happen for the same reason CK2 will never be pushed back any earlier than it is: Paradox will not mimic the rise of Islam. It'd get them a lot of flak, and alienate them, from Muslim players and Islam-majority countries.

To be honest, I'm pretty sure they even said as much years ago.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Culise on June 05, 2018, 06:59:25 pm
It's kind of funny that people keep saying they want Paradox games to go from Rome to CK. It'll never happen for the same reason CK2 will never be pushed back any earlier than it is: Paradox will not mimic the rise of Islam. It'd get them a lot of flak, and alienate them, from Muslim players and Islam-majority countries.

To be honest, I'm pretty sure they even said as much years ago.
I can safely say I've never heard of this before.  They've always seemed fine with Islam rising before, given that they even added playable Muslims early to CKII and given how powerful the Ottomans are in EU4.  Do you happen to recall where they said this years ago?  The only quirk in CK2 I've heard of that is tailored to (primarily Sunni) Islamic sensibilities was Muhammad's portrait. 

CK2 won't be pushed back any further for a much simpler reason than Islam: it's already barely able to deal with the era it covers.  Its core systems are very limited in both geography and chronology, and it shows.  Even in Christian Europe, tanistry was a pain to add and the rota system is right out.  Old Gods was tricky enough, but the timescale expansion in Charlemagne already pushes the limits of the core mechanics.  Handling the fall of Rome in CK2 is best left to mods.  For Rome, I'd be surprised to find it any better.  The decline and fall of Rome and especially the Great Migrations are things that would probably go better in their own game. 
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Dorsidwarf on June 05, 2018, 08:43:46 pm
CK2 really struggles outside of ironclad rules of the land that are immutable and based on 11th-thirteenth century feudalism, and the further outside its zone it gets the more precarious the number of hats that internal feudalism wears becomes. The collapse of the WRE really is just too far unless they throw accuracy into the med
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: ZeroGravitas on June 12, 2018, 08:08:15 am
so imperator will have mana

seems like johan is guiding the ship on this one after doomdark fucked up stellaris
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Teneb on June 12, 2018, 11:59:11 am
so imperator will have mana

seems like johan is guiding the ship on this one after doomdark fucked up stellaris
Stellaris is Wiz's child though.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on June 12, 2018, 02:34:23 pm
Doomdark used to be lead designer for Stellaris before Wiz took over for whatever reason. While 2.0 was quite the departure I think that it's still not 100% Wiz's baby yet. But certainly getting there.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Cruxador on June 14, 2018, 08:27:03 pm
so imperator will have mana

seems like johan is guiding the ship on this one after doomdark fucked up stellaris
I don't really think he did. Stellaris fell short in a lot of ways, but at launch it had a lot of promise. Launching without having realized that promise might reflect poorly on his project management skills, but throwing that promise away was all on Wiz.

But yeah, Johan is helming Imperator, and I'm cautiously optimistic about that. EU4 suffered from the idea that it's the entry level game, and was also the first to rely heavily on mana so it wasn't as refined of a mechanic. He seems like he's letting his Vicky-level autism loose on this one.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 06, 2018, 04:30:16 pm
Anyone play Victoria II with A Heart of Darkness? I am killing myself here trying to get the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom to survive at the 1861 start date. Astoundingly I've been able to successively prolong my longevity but the overwhelming supremacy of the Qing dynasty at that time period (historically when the Kingdom fell) means that I can't sustain flawless victories, with no strategic depth and the Qing forces outnumbering me 2 to 1. The advantage I have is infantry, but every single one of their stacks is led whilst I can recruit just 1 leader in the immediate months necessary for survival. A single mistake always leads to total immediate death, whilst every flawless run has thus far resulted in prolonged inevitable death. How can I crack this nut? Perhaps at that point it truly is just too late for the Heavenly Rebellion.

*EDIT
But there must be something I'm missing... There must be a way to turn the tide. There must be! What is it?!!!
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Man of Paper on October 07, 2018, 12:51:13 am
Opium.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: scriver on October 07, 2018, 03:24:56 am
Do a Serbian
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: EuchreJack on October 07, 2018, 06:40:39 pm
Anyone play Victoria II with A Heart of Darkness? I am killing myself here trying to get the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom to survive at the 1861 start date. Astoundingly I've been able to successively prolong my longevity but the overwhelming supremacy of the Qing dynasty at that time period (historically when the Kingdom fell) means that I can't sustain flawless victories, with no strategic depth and the Qing forces outnumbering me 2 to 1. The advantage I have is infantry, but every single one of their stacks is led whilst I can recruit just 1 leader in the immediate months necessary for survival. A single mistake always leads to total immediate death, whilst every flawless run has thus far resulted in prolonged inevitable death. How can I crack this nut? Perhaps at that point it truly is just too late for the Heavenly Rebellion.

*EDIT
But there must be something I'm missing... There must be a way to turn the tide. There must be! What is it?!!!

Can't you just get into the sphere of UK or something, and let them deal with Qing?

Regarding Stellaris: I'm pretty sure the problem is that all other paradox games are based in a real world with fixed geography.  Its NOT balanced, as you can start as a Count or a King, or a OPM or France, or as Abu Dabi or France.  Stellaris is too samey, what they need is a fixed start with fixed empires of varying size and story hooks on how the little guys might just maybe get to be the big guys, and mechanics that allow that transition.  The total conversion mods of Stellaris are actually pretty good because they give that stuff.  Play on the Star Trek or Warhammer 40000 knockoffs and its a nice game.  All paradox needs to do is create their own fixed galaxy for the players to muck around in, and Stellaris could be good.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 09, 2018, 02:13:13 pm
Can't you just get into the sphere of UK or something, and let them deal with Qing?
Your population is too large for the UK to influence, coupled with the fact that it is impossible for you to be sphered in time before the Qing have sieged down all of your holdings - their troops start on your border and in sufficient quantity that at least half of your infantry have to retreat or will be immediately killed. To make matters worse, even if the UK was friendly, they cannot intervene in the civil war casus belli, the same way they cannot in the USA vs Confederacy war. I managed to do it by going back to the previous start date, before the rebellion begins. Thus I failed my original objective but my conclusion is that playing as the Taiping Heavenly Rebellion two months before they died is not enough time to alter the material circumstances, much in the same way that trying to win WWII as France when the Germans are in Paris is not exactly a likely prospect.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
So instead I started as Qing China. Playing consecutively day after day, I refined my strategy until I found the method which worked. Each time I failed for different reasons. Sometimes the Qing government was too powerful, many times I would be carved up by Russia or Britain, even Japan. When I at last managed to get population consciousness just right and the circumstances of the civil war perfectly, I found to my horror that it was bugged. It should be the case that whoever wins the war inherits all the reforms and substates held by the other, but it actually sets all the substates free and sets the Heavenly Kingdom back to square 1 - no reforms, no cores on all of China. This meant my task would become immensely more difficult.

My solution was to Westernize the Qing government and unify all of China, and then win the civil war as the Heavenly Kingdom. This itself presented some issues. The first was that this required a lot of research points, and my population literacy was abysmal, even with my best efforts to promote the clergy and education. The second was that after Westernizing, all of the substate armies would be disbanded, meaning I would need to have a powerful enough army to deter the usual suspects (UK, Russia & Japan) but not powerful enough to render the Taiping Heavenly Rebellion a hopeless endeavour. This would be especially pertinent, since the Qing armies would be partially westernized, whilst the Heavenly Kingdom armies would be worthless in direct combat.

Conquering Asian countries allowed me to vastly increase my Westernization process through the modernization of the Qing army. Annexing Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Burma, Brunei and so on rapidly brought my army up to scratch - not to any Western standard, but certainly enough to overwhelm all Asian peers. It did however bring me into conflict with Japan who became a Great Power (and indeed became one of the world's top industrial powers in short time, even bringing all of Western India into the sphere of influence, holding a colonial Empire from Africa to Borneo). Subsequently I lost much land to Great Power invasions, which was all right, since the land I lost still gave me truces with the Western powers whilst protecting the core Chinese lands. Borneo fell to the Dutch, Burma would fall later to Britain, while the Japanese would be repelled after a disastrous landing in Korea - reinforcements to my islands deterred any further attempt by Japan to annex me.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Complete Westernization helped drive my population consciousness up and annexed all the substates (Tibet as a vassal was not annexed). Gradually I began amassing an army comprised of Nanfaren and Beifaren infantry from the Taiping core lands, whilst decreasing the size of my Manchu units, until the Qing dynasty was dependent upon Taiping brigades for its physical security.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
When at last the Taiping Heavenly Rebellion broke out, I had a rather daunting task at hand, but I had the best chance I'd ever get. I had 15,000 infantry in Burma, 15,000 infantry in Vietnam, 15,000 infantry in Korea, the rest of my 354,000 infantry were poised to seize the capital and the big population centres in the heartland of China. Resistance was fierce, with the Qing able to amass 180,000 Western-standard soldiers in the Southwest of the Empire, around Chongqing and Vietnam. My Vietnam brigades were defeated almost immediately, but managed to retreat to join the main force. The Burma brigades were considerably more successful, tying down 2x their number in the mountains. With 45,000 troops taking the North and Korea, everyone else focused on pushing Westwards. Time was on the side of the Qing, as the more time they could buy the more their qualitative superiority and higher population would inevitably wear my forces down. Subsequently every time the Qing forces attacked, I diverted my attention towards defeating their stacks. It was painful, as I had 2 generals to split between all my armies, and I'd always end up losing at least 2x more troops than the Qing in every battle. Nevertheless it ensured I never lost momentum in sieging down the Qing Empire.

But after 3 years, it was at last over. I'd lost a lot of men, but the population I gained from the Qing Empire's collapse more than made up for it. At once I set about reforming the education system as I realised I had to Westernize all over again, and began amassing troops to garrison my borders with the UK and Russia. I stood no chance against either of them, but it did help give me some more peace of mind ;]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
As before, as today, I lost a lot of my territories to various Western powers, but gained more land in central Asia. These are the borders I kept for the rest of the game. One issue is that I had no cores for everything, so in order to core it all I had to become a great power. Upon Westernizing my #1 priority was researching nationalism & industry, in short order my Heavenly Kingdom was building railways everywhere and flooding the world with cheap iron, coal and agricultural produce. Under the auspices of the Reactionary Faction I built up cement and steel factories everywhere, distinctly aware that I was entering into the world market and the industrialisation game horrendously late. Fortunately I had sufficient, vastly overwhelming stores of wealth from tariffs alone, that I could amass a gargantuan army (rapidly becoming the #1 military power, above Britain) whilst subsidizing a whole swathe of unprofitable factories - at least, unprofitable at first. As a low ranking civilised nation I had little access to world markets, so had to rely upon China's own vast wealth. I had sulphur, iron, coal, silk, and subsequently became world leader in luxury clothes productions once my own domestic cotton industry kicked off. Once I had enough stores of processed and raw materials, a sizeable industrial base and a growing population of craftsmen, I switched to the conservative faction to let them expand industry at their own leisure - only switching back once in order to build up my automobile and electronics industry.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It was just before WWI that I broke into Great Power status. My industry began to skyrocket whilst my military expansion increased at an unabated rate - for efficiency's sake I'd increase my army in batches of 600 brigades, bringing them all into Taiping before crudely sorting them mixed regiments of infantry, dragoons, artillery and engineers. I rapidly began coring most of my country, which at this point was just flooding with Chinese people, who made coring even Korea, Mongolia, Vietnam and Central Asia a trivial task.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
With my industry and economy of scale overwhelming my competitors, my industrial science catching up and exceeding my rivals, the European powers ravaged by Great Wars - it opened up the opportunity for America & Japan to sphere much of the world. The Americans, Japanese and British had far too much influence on countries bordering me, so I decided to change that by challenging them all on their turf. I could flood countries with so much foreign investment that the other Great Powers couldn't match, so it resulted in things like a quarter of South America falling under my sphere of influence. Challenging America and Britain was a mistake, at least that early on. Although my industry surpassed them, my Navy was still using sailships and my army was not a match for either. When I annexed Tibet the British and Americans joined forces to enforce the status quo; I learned quickly that my forces were still no match for Britain's. Fortunately I got away intact, ending the war early by releasing Tibet under the American sphere. In the meantime I fortified China and modernised my army.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
During the Second World War, I figured the other Great Powers would be to busy to notice me annexing Tibet. I was right, however it pushed my just slightly above 25 infamy. Two years after the Second World War ended, the British invaded, in the British war to contain the Heavenly Kingdom. This time however, they found my troops dug in, within trenches, Fortresses, with artillery and machine guns, engineers and limitless reserves more than a match for their own. I was capable of sending hundreds upon hundreds of brigades without ever having to underman my core or my Russian borders, and if I absolutely had to I could recruit thousands or mobilize 5,000+ brigades. As far as land wars were concerned I had at last reached the point where defensively I was mostly secure.
...Mostly, I did nearly lose a war against Russia. The Italians dragged me into a war against the Austro-Hungarians, I ended the war by giving away Italian land and ended my alliance with the freeloaders. I could have easily won the war if I was willing to sacrifice my men against Russia but I had nothing to gain from making Italy more powerful at my expense, especially while I was making the transition into becoming the foremost industrial power in quantity AND quality.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
While this may look like a lot of rebels, I usually swung between 5-7 million active soldiers who would use the railway networks to crush rebellions of this size within 1-2 weeks. Also notable in the pic, is that it was my first use of my armoured brigades - my tanks effortlessly crushed the rebels and soon accosted the British, confirming their fall and my ascent as the world's foremost power. At this point I tried to see if I could make my Navy as strong as my Army, but while I got up to steamships I realised I'd never get a Japanese or British navy in time before the game ended, I contented myself with making a large air force and armoured brigades, especially once all the Middle Eastern oil fell under my sphere of influence. I occasionally intervened in European politics - my favourite one being when I made Germany win WWII by flooding them with war subsidies, making their war go from -70 to victory, cutting subsidies once they outlived their usefulness.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
By the end my power was confirmed; when it came to industry or land power, everyone else was fighting for second place. And while my prestige wasn't as good as my industry or military, I was rather pleased that the more prestigious powers like Germany continued to bleed prestige in disastrous wars. With even Spain, Turkey and Portugal under my sphere of influence, the Western Indian states allied with me against British Imperialism, I had at last built up a force which could actually overcome British defences and liberate India.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Digital Hellhound on October 09, 2018, 03:06:56 pm
Time to convert into Hearts of Iron? You could pick another nation and try to defeat the mighty celestial giant you've created, if it seems too easy. What does Europe look like, anyway? Did Germany get anything nice from winning that Great War?
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 10, 2018, 06:06:13 pm
Time to convert into Hearts of Iron? You could pick another nation and try to defeat the mighty celestial giant you've created, if it seems too easy. What does Europe look like, anyway? Did Germany get anything nice from winning that Great War?
Maybe, I'm not so good at Hoi IV so I think I'd still find a way to mess up lol

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Germany grew some, Germany lost some. Most signifcantly they won lots of Netherlands, all of Alsace-Lorraine and Bohemia in the Great War, but they lost it all (and then France shoved a boot down their throat) in subsequent wars. Note American Morocco and American Suez, while for all of the Ottoman Empire's problems, Turkey actually did pretty well for itself in spite of Russian or Western interventions. Russia tended to seesaw between irrelevance and stunning supremacy pretty regularly, so you could never tell how powerful they really were at any one moment - at this point, they were very powerful. Tiny Krakow is still alive, sandwiched between Germany and Austria-Hungary.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Scramble for Africa was weird, largely owing to the Turkish Empire retaining great power status long enough to continue colonising, while the Belgians were destroyed in Europe. The Americans grabbed a small slice, while the rest was split between the British, Germans, Dutch, Turks and the French in the Congo. Note as well, that the Japanese have territory on the African coast (southeast corner, by Turkish Africa), which is occupied by the British. Meanwhile in the top right, the British lands in Arabia are occupied by Japan. Towards the end the British Royal Navy and Imperial Japanese Navy were the world's foremost naval powers (besides the USA) and were fighting an inconclusive war for dominance in the seas.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Despite the fall of the European continental Dutch lands, the Dutch African lands served as a suitable government to flee too, besides the other two Dutch African Republics. South America is pretty unremarkable besides Chile taking much of Argentina, while America linked Alaska to the rest of the USA by land in a pretty disgusting looking fashion.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: scriver on February 08, 2019, 02:56:13 pm
Rise, Romans!

Imperator has a release date, 25th of April (https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-augurs-have-decided-imperator-rome-releases-on-april-25.1150221/)

Trailer trailer (https://youtu.be/0hNKRrM0UPo)
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Teneb on February 08, 2019, 04:19:49 pm
Rise, Romans!

Imperator has a release date, 25th of April (https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-augurs-have-decided-imperator-rome-releases-on-april-25.1150221/)

Trailer trailer (https://youtu.be/0hNKRrM0UPo)
*clears throat* The Senate is this way. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173193.0)
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: scriver on February 09, 2019, 07:30:20 am
I am the senate
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Teneb on February 09, 2019, 07:56:25 am
I am the senate
Not yet!
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: scriver on February 09, 2019, 09:09:34 am
The Die has been cast!
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Culise on March 21, 2019, 11:06:00 pm
I wonder if we should include Paradox-published games here, or if we should spin them off.  Anyways, the teased work for the Vampire: The Masquerade IP received its official announcement, and it has some big shoes to fill: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2 for 2020 (https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2-announced-by-paradox-interactive-and-hardsuit-labs.1162011/).  Website (https://www.bloodlines2.com/) and trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYvWfDxhm_s), such as it is.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Cruxador on March 22, 2019, 12:24:13 am
Well, they've been trying to break into RPGs for a while. Who knows, maybe it'll be good.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Digital Hellhound on March 22, 2019, 04:13:27 am
The developer appears to be kind of an unknown, but hey, maybe they’ll pull it off. Doesn’t appear to be a company with much RPG experience. I feel like games that are only published by Paradox might not belong in this thread, but then again this doesn’t exactly see a lot of activity anyway so why not.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: ZeroGravitas on March 22, 2019, 08:11:45 am
The developer appears to be kind of an unknown, but hey, maybe they’ll pull it off. Doesn’t appear to be a company with much RPG experience. I feel like games that are only published by Paradox might not belong in this thread, but then again this doesn’t exactly see a lot of activity anyway so why not.

the company might be new but they certainly hired some higher-power talent to work on the game:

https://www.pcgamer.com/chris-avellone-writing-for-bloodlines-2/

also,

Quote
While Avellone is involved, original Bloodlines writer and designer Brian Mitsoda is the narrative lead.

Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Karnewarrior on March 22, 2019, 11:08:34 am
Newbie companies can be kind of hit-or-miss, but I tend to prefer them because I feel like after a certain amount of time with successful games a lot of companies get taken over by people who are more in it for the money than the game, which can result in cardboard-cutout sequelitis and other such things. With a new company, at least you know they're going to try something new to try to get a runaway hit.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 14, 2019, 06:50:02 pm
Considering pre-purchasing Imperator: Rome, but as a Paradox fan it IS true that at release their games are as of late... not the same quality as they are several years down the road. Any speculation on whether or not I:R will be worth the cost at release?
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Cruxador on April 14, 2019, 08:44:52 pm
I haven't been following it at all, but I reckon if you've not been following it yourself, to the extent of reading the dev logs and being aware of how much you'll love it at launch, chances are you're better off waiting for a few patches and a sale.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Culise on April 14, 2019, 11:42:31 pm
It is true that their games are not of the same quality as they will eventually be after a few years of development pass, but this was true even when they were doing expansion packs rather than DLC except for a handful of exceptions (Sengoku, Diplomacy, Svea Rike).  They've been doing extensive post-release support since EU2 at least (it may be because I came to it late, but EU1 felt a bit more modest and short-lived), and paid development via expansion packs or DLC since Crusader Kings: Deus Vult (which had more...complex reasons for it at the time, but the principle was quickly taken up for their own 100% in-house developed games).  The consequence of their extended post-release development cycle instead of abandoning the game or immediately preparing for the next sequel is that the game in five years cannot help but have changed significantly from release.  If you're just referring to a tendency to have chaotic game launches surfeit in bugs, that's...also not changed, unfortunately.  QA is not their strong point, and I suspect it's only partially due to the highly complex nature of their games.

I agree, though, that if you weren't so interested in it that you were avidly following the prerelease, you probably won't be sacrificing anything by waiting a while to buy it.  It's all but certain there will be DLC, and even more certain there will be sales.  Both HOI4 and Stellaris had sales around 33-40% within a year of release.  This is also my plan; Rome does not interest me to jump in right away.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Cruxador on April 15, 2019, 12:36:21 am
It is true that their games are not of the same quality as they will eventually be after a few years of development pass, but this was true even when they were doing expansion packs rather than DLC except for a handful of exceptions (Sengoku, Diplomacy, Svea Rike).
March of the Eagles also fits this bill.
Quote
They've been doing extensive post-release support since EU2 at least (it may be because I came to it late, but EU1 felt a bit more modest and short-lived), and paid development via expansion packs or DLC since Crusader Kings: Deus Vult (which had more...complex reasons for it at the time, but the principle was quickly taken up for their own 100% in-house developed games).  The consequence of their extended post-release development cycle instead of abandoning the game or immediately preparing for the next sequel is that the game in five years cannot help but have changed significantly from release.  If you're just referring to a tendency to have chaotic game launches surfeit in bugs, that's...also not changed, unfortunately.  QA is not their strong point, and I suspect it's only partially due to the highly complex nature of their games.
It's not just a matter of whether they'll get better. I found their older games to be fun on launch, far more so than recent ones. CK2 was an improvement over CK1 in nearly every way, even though CK1 was at the end of its life and CK2 at the beginning. EU4 was, to put it politely, rough on launch. They no longer have buggy launches like they used to, and the new UI is better, but they've traded one set of problems for another. I mean, EU4 has only been unambiguously more fun than it's predecessor for a few years now. HoI4 isn't there yet, and doesn't even clearly seem to be going that direction, and despite all the hours I've sunk in the search for the game that it could be, I still haven't found Stellaris to be fun at all. I don't think Imperator will have that problem, the dev diaries and stuff make it look like an excellent game, more so than anything Paradox has done in a while. But like EU4 rather than like CK2, I do expect it to be a bit tedious until some expansions fill out the gameplay.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Glloyd on April 15, 2019, 02:28:49 am
But like EU4 rather than like CK2, I do expect it to be a bit tedious until some expansions fill out the gameplay.

Especially considering Imperator is a lot closer to EUIV than other Pdox games. Which isn't really a surprise considering it's Johan, but all the mana and the weakness of the character side of it has really turned me off trying this on release.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Sartain on April 15, 2019, 07:44:58 am
I'll definitely buy it on release but then again, my least played Paradox game has 414 hours so I guess I'm a fan :)
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Tobel on April 15, 2019, 09:37:44 am
The early views from Quill and folks look good. A lot of combined pieces from EU, some CK2 aspects. A little more politicking and internal monitoring than I normally would like.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Teneb on April 15, 2019, 11:57:15 am
My main disappointment with the game is that Johan outright confirmed it's being built as a Map Painter. Sure, it could be a very good Map Painter game, but I guess I don't want that.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Radsoc on April 15, 2019, 04:06:08 pm
I don't know. I'm not swayed. At least not yet. Especially by the thought of it being incomplete at release with 10+ DLC until full feature. :P Probably.

Don't get me wrong. I like Paradox games, and they are among my most played games, but it's just too much for my wallet, patience and time. I rather put that time into currently existing Paradox games.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Culise on April 15, 2019, 06:52:36 pm
I don't know. I'm not swayed. At least not yet. Especially by the thought of it being incomplete at release with 10+ DLC until full feature. :P Probably.
I'll admit that I've never quite understood the logic of this since I've also heard of it being brought up without the smilie by others who seem to take the notion more personally, but I'm not certain if it's a practical or perceptual thing.  Would the game become more complete if they simply released it the exact same way, released a couple two-three bugfix patches, then began working on Imperator 2: Augustinian Boogaloo instead of their present (wallet-hammering, barrier-to-entry-raising) DLC swarm?  My apologies since I know it's an acrimonious point to some, but I am curious and you seem to take it more lightly than most.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 15, 2019, 08:26:48 pm
Neither of those options are what people want--I think most would rather have Paradox at least make an effort to include more mechanics and content in the initial release. After a certain point whether its more games or more DLC, it's just not enough bang for your buck.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Karnewarrior on April 15, 2019, 08:51:24 pm
At least with Paradox DLC, you get actual content. I've bought game DLC before that's done far less for just as much cash.

And while vanilla CKII and EUIV are terrible compared to the DLC filled versions, they're not bad games. They're actually quite adequate.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Cruxador on April 15, 2019, 10:12:16 pm
At least with Paradox DLC, you get actual content. I've bought game DLC before that's done far less for just as much cash.
Well, it varies.

Quote
And while vanilla CKII and EUIV are terrible compared to the DLC filled versions, they're not bad games. They're actually quite adequate.
That's true of the free portion of the game, but remember that this includes a lot of post launch content that was released along with DLC. It's not necessarily relevant to the current discussion.

My main disappointment with the game is that Johan outright confirmed it's being built as a Map Painter. Sure, it could be a very good Map Painter game, but I guess I don't want that.
Paradox has never not made a map painter.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Culise on April 15, 2019, 11:25:34 pm
Neither of those options are what people want--I think most would rather have Paradox at least make an effort to include more mechanics and content in the initial release. After a certain point whether its more games or more DLC, it's just not enough bang for your buck.
Ah, so it's the idea that they're relying on DLC as a crutch and thus not pushing development of the base game to the fullest limits given their available resources.  I'm not entirely sure I agree, but that does make sense. 
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Radsoc on April 16, 2019, 01:15:05 am
Well, the idea is that playing it at release, at full price is not preferable to waiting until discounts of the base game plus a couple of DLCs, if reviews are favorable. The game might surely be playable at 1.0, but to me their 1.0 is just the start of a feature incomplete early access. I've had some horrible 1.0 experiences, while I really enjoy their games with all DLCs (yes) years after release. However, new DLC cause me to postpone playing (e.g. CK2 games have been a few years in between), and their pricing is not that reasonable comparable to what you could get in terms of new feature complete games instead.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: scriver on April 16, 2019, 04:55:39 am
I played ck2 without DLC for years on end and there's absolutely nothing missing there. It's a full games worth on its own, and was from the start.

My main disappointment with the game is that Johan outright confirmed it's being built as a Map Painter. Sure, it could be a very good Map Painter game, but I guess I don't want that.
Paradox has never not made a map painter.

The tragedy is the loss of the ambition to be something more. A history simulator (original EUs and similar), an alternative history simulator (later EUs and similar), a character driven alternative history simulator (CK and the original EU:R). The ambition to go beyond "just a map painter" is what has put Paradox above other developers in the same scene, it's why I've become a Paradox fanboy, and I would say it is likely also why Paradox have eched out a niche while the entire rest of the Grand Strategy genre has withered and died.

That's why it's both sad and worrying to see a lead developer say "it's a map painter". It's something they've always said they want to be more than in the past.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: ZeroGravitas on April 16, 2019, 08:25:27 am
I played ck2 without DLC for years on end and there's absolutely nothing missing there. It's a full games worth on its own, and was from the start.

Mostly yes, though it was pretty rough around the edges. The ERE worked like a feudal realm; the Abbasid caliphate was depicted as controlling the Seljuqs, because Paradox hadn't worked out the religious titles yet; there was no accurate depiction of merchant republics; there were no practical limitations on things like "I'll just have all my vassals be archbishops".

So yeah, it was good on its own, but it was kind of a mess once you started picking at it.

Quote
My main disappointment with the game is that Johan outright confirmed it's being built as a Map Painter. Sure, it could be a very good Map Painter game, but I guess I don't want that.
Paradox has never not made a map painter.

The tragedy is the loss of the ambition to be something more. A history simulator (original EUs and similar), an alternative history simulator (later EUs and similar), a character driven alternative history simulator (CK and the original EU:R). The ambition to go beyond "just a map painter" is what has put Paradox above other developers in the same scene, it's why I've become a Paradox fanboy, and I would say it is likely also why Paradox have eched out a niche while the entire rest of the Grand Strategy genre has withered and died.

That's why it's both sad and worrying to see a lead developer say "it's a map painter". It's something they've always said they want to be more than in the past.

just the opposite. Johan has always thought of the EU series as "Risk on crack". what has put them above other developers of history-based games is attention to detail and immersion. not an accurate simulation or even a real attempt to accurately simulate anything. they are all map-painters, and they only vary based on whether the "Sandbox" or the "Railroad" faction within Paradox is winning the meta debate.

ironically, I would say that paradox most seriously screwed up when they tried to leave the history subgenre with Stellaris, but that's also where Creative Assembly finally got good again: Warhammer (and 2) is absurdly flavorful and good, while Stellaris is basically unfinished and Paradox has no idea what to do with it.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Greenbane on April 16, 2019, 11:39:24 am
ironically, I would say that paradox most seriously screwed up when they tried to leave the history subgenre with Stellaris, but that's also where Creative Assembly finally got good again: Warhammer (and 2) is absurdly flavorful and good, while Stellaris is basically unfinished and Paradox has no idea what to do with it.

Yeah... I've bounced right off Stellaris thrice now (last time just after Utopia), and feel disinclined to keep buying DLC when they don't seem to add anything meaningful. It seems most of the DLC material is centered on the late game, when the mid game is essentially a gaping chasm.

After the initial settlement of your galactic neighbourhood, the game really loses momentum, and you're only left with incrementally improving your colonies and tech, and perhaps warring against the occasional nearby species. On a whim, since war is so lackluster and often unnecessary.

So I'm not really all that interested in apocalyptic weapons or ultimate mega-projects when the game's hold on me is lost ages prior to those things becoming viable/desirable.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Cruxador on April 16, 2019, 01:17:05 pm
ironically, I would say that paradox most seriously screwed up when they tried to leave the history subgenre with Stellaris, but that's also where Creative Assembly finally got good again: Warhammer (and 2) is absurdly flavorful and good, while Stellaris is basically unfinished and Paradox has no idea what to do with it.

Yeah... I've bounced right off Stellaris thrice now (last time just after Utopia), and feel disinclined to keep buying DLC when they don't seem to add anything meaningful. It seems most of the DLC material is centered on the late game, when the mid game is essentially a gaping chasm.

After the initial settlement of your galactic neighbourhood, the game really loses momentum, and you're only left with incrementally improving your colonies and tech, and perhaps warring against the occasional nearby species. On a whim, since war is so lackluster and often unnecessary.

So I'm not really all that interested in apocalyptic weapons or ultimate mega-projects when the game's hold on me is lost ages prior to those things becoming viable/desirable.
This might be a case of listening too much to the fans, actually. The Stellaris forums and modding community get quite enthused about doing things like that, in part (one assumes) because it's the only thing Stellaris is currently doing more or less right. I reckon that people who find the core gameplay to be inadequate are also less likely to spend time on the forums, and although there were definitely complaints about a weak midgame when the game was new, they've dried up now. Paradox may take this to mean that it's good enough, when in fact people are just tired of mucking about with inadequate improvements.

I do think the economic overhaul was a step in the right direction, though. If Stellaris had been as it is now when it launched, I would be optimistic for its future. I don't know enough about the new HNIC to know if optimism is reasonable at this point, though.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Karnewarrior on April 16, 2019, 01:41:44 pm
I've said for years now that what Stellaris needs is a story and a canon. The mistake was making the galaxy random and computer generated. You can't get weird scenarios like "Muslim Mexican Republic starting WWI in 1911 by declaring on the Fascist Dutch States of America" without an implication that Mexico is not Muslim, that America is neither fascist nor Dutch, or any other host of preassumptions.

Because every species in Stellaris is different every time, there's no repeat offenders, no titles to attach meaning to, and very few meme races outside of LP shenanigans. The AI has it's personality, but not only is it in your face when in the other titles it would be implied, it's also pretty generic. The lack of repeating characters means nobody cares that the Horian Empire conquered Uxanaka V, while people might be tickled to find that France somehow took Ryukyu from Japan.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Greenbane on April 16, 2019, 02:04:09 pm
I reckon that people who find the core gameplay to be inadequate are also less likely to spend time on the forums, and although there were definitely complaints about a weak midgame when the game was new, they've dried up now. Paradox may take this to mean that it's good enough, when in fact people are just tired of mucking about with inadequate improvements.

This might be the case. I've participated on most official PDX subforums, but not Stellaris' since I've never felt invested in it.

You might be on to something with the assumption people who just don't like the core gameplay have moved on. I certainly have. We're not talking about a great game with a few glaring flaws, which passionate fans might be vocal about. Instead, this is just an OK game, certainly the lesser of the main grand strategy line, with lackluster gameplay in general, and therefore it's unlikely to awaken the same feelings from a significant portion of the playerbase.

Karnewarrior is also right about PDX's underestimation of the historical anchor all its other major games have. The result in Stellaris is indeed an ocean of genericness which is ultimately reminiscent of the average procedurally generated game. It's very hard to make such universes interesting.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Kot on April 16, 2019, 02:23:46 pm
I hope the of in the title stands for March of the Eagles.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: scriver on April 16, 2019, 02:33:02 pm
We also need to add Imperiumator to it now.

Unless the Universalis stands for Europa Universalis: Rome?
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Cruxador on April 16, 2019, 02:40:11 pm
We also need to add Imperiumator to it now.

Unless the Universalis stands for Europa Universalis: Rome?
The subtitle could be "Stellar Iron Imperator".
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 16, 2019, 02:50:04 pm
We also need to add Imperiumator to it now.

Unless the Universalis stands for Europa Universalis: Rome?
The subtitle could be "Stellar Iron Imperator".
Ironically, that is 100% the title of my band.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: EuchreJack on April 17, 2019, 02:39:32 pm
I'm worried that Imperator will be the next Stellaris.  After all, their previous game in the setting didn't take off.  I mean, they really want to avenge that failure and the fans want them to avenge that failure, but if it doesn't work, we might have the next Sengoku (I'm still pissed to have payed for what was a beta-test of Crusader Kings 2).

I think I'm going to see where Imperator: Rome falls in the spectrum.

I still fiddle with Stellaris from time to time.  The latest update at least poured some life into it.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Cruxador on April 17, 2019, 06:01:15 pm
I'm worried that Imperator will be the next Stellaris.  After all, their previous game in the setting didn't take off.  I mean, they really want to avenge that failure and the fans want them to avenge that failure, but if it doesn't work, we might have the next Sengoku (I'm still pissed to have payed for what was a beta-test of Crusader Kings 2).

I think I'm going to see where Imperator: Rome falls in the spectrum.

I still fiddle with Stellaris from time to time.  The latest update at least poured some life into it.
Considering the way they've been pushing it, Imperator is clearly not meant to be a test game like Sengoku or March of the Eagles - or indeed, like they may have intended Stellaris to be before it blew up. If a game on this scale didn't meet a certain minimum floor, it would instead be the next East vs West.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: ZeroGravitas on April 18, 2019, 07:28:46 am
watching florryworry play it on twitch right now - it looks pretty awful. merc spam worse than eu4, along with all the same bs war and peace system... hoping to see something of redeeming value here.

 (also the super gamma glow map and white UI features... i can feel my retina burning away...)
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Trolldefender99 on April 21, 2019, 10:01:02 pm
watching florryworry play it on twitch right now - it looks pretty awful. merc spam worse than eu4, along with all the same bs war and peace system... hoping to see something of redeeming value here.

 (also the super gamma glow map and white UI features... i can feel my retina burning away...)

Even if its "bad" at launch, I'm gonna buy it anyway :(

I enjoy every single Paradox game. The only exception is I didn't like Stellaris at launch, but after a year I went back and its now my 3rd most played Paradox game (behind EU4 and Victoria 2). I enjoyed CK2 as well, got almost 100 hours out of it and it was only one I felt like I personally "finished" the game.

Paradox hasn't really made a bad game for me, and the one I didn't like at launch got better over time.

(not related to the quote, but seen people on steam complaining about future DLC)

Personally. I like how they keep updating their games like an MMO would, with continuous updates instead of abandoning it for the next title. Though I know some don't like that approach since a lot of good stuff ends up locked in DLC. I like it just cause at least for EU4, there is always new content. A lot of games make a couple DLC and give up and move on to the next 60 dollar game. I'm sure paradox could have made more money re-releasing slightly different versions of EU4 like how some games re-release with just a few changes. I'd rather instead of a few changes (whether big or small), it would be DLC instead of re-releasing with a full priced newly released title. And that is what Paradox does. And for some reason there is a group of people who don't like that approach and rather keep buying new titles with only a few changes. Dunno, the latter seems more expensive as a consumer to me and makes me not want to buy a game when its mostly the same as their previous title.

And I like that a game can last for years that isn't an MMO. Like Skyrim. Imagine if it was updated with DLC for as long as EU4 has been supported. There'd be so much content and stuff to do, it would last so long (ignoring mods) compared to 3 dlc and that is it. Same with Witcher 3, eventually it just ends with no new content. Sure the 3 dlc were great, but they still end. Where as, EU4 is still fresh with content and still supported today. Can't think of many companies that have that support.

Though I do understand the other side sees it as being "forced" to use DLC, because content gets locked out without that DLC. That is a big negative side effect of that method. Personally though, I still think its worth that trade off to have a continually updated and continually supported game.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Trolldefender99 on April 21, 2019, 11:23:49 pm
That aside (sorry for double post, above post was a bit long)

Knowing how moddable Imperator: Rome is, is pretty amazing. Quill18 said (from first video I finished of his let's play) its going to be most moddable paradox game yet. That is pretty amazing, that they are doing a lot for their modders. Don't see that much these days.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Trolldefender99 on April 24, 2019, 12:05:50 am
So, the only thing that feels meh after watching Quill18 play is there seems to be very few building types to build. Like I'm pretty sure CK2 had a lot more at the start (it has a ton now). They are almost for sure to expand the buildings out though...but can't really build anything cool or epic it seems.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Persus13 on April 25, 2019, 04:36:05 pm
Well, Imperator is out now. Anyone here decide to take the plunge?
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: scriver on April 25, 2019, 05:07:34 pm
Oh, I bought it back when  the Chinese New yesrs dale offered a discount-on-any-gsme discount
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Persus13 on April 25, 2019, 06:44:41 pm
It's boring as hell. Doubled-down on map painting and left very little else. Only potential is with modding it to death and back to add some actual content.
So, EU Rome again? Or worse?
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Wiles on April 25, 2019, 07:11:06 pm
I am just learning the game but I am enjoying it so far. I feel like I am having more fun with it than I did with EU:IV on launch.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: ZeroGravitas on April 25, 2019, 09:17:06 pm
I was in the beta.

Now that the NDA is over, I do have a few words.




It's boring as hell. Doubled-down on map painting and left very little else. Only potential is with modding it to death and back to add some actual content.

all paradox does now is release a Minimum Viable Product. if you buy their games at release you can expect that you're not buying anything near what most people would call a "full" game.

you can gamble on whether the DLC will be good or bad, but it's just not on the level of Warhammer or Civ where you can expect you're getting real game at release. you're not.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Teneb on April 25, 2019, 10:42:39 pm
I was in the beta.

Now that the NDA is over, I do have a few words.




It's boring as hell. Doubled-down on map painting and left very little else. Only potential is with modding it to death and back to add some actual content.

all paradox does now is release a Minimum Viable Product. if you buy their games at release you can expect that you're not buying anything near what most people would call a "full" game.

you can gamble on whether the DLC will be good or bad, but it's just not on the level of Warhammer or Civ where you can expect you're getting real game at release. you're not.
/me remembers how CK2 was pretty full for what it was when it released

/me wishes the trend would've continued
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Malus on April 25, 2019, 11:33:59 pm
~5 hours in: it's promising. Needs work, like literally every PDS game at launch, but it could definitely be great. Eventually.

It feels like a step backwards in some ways -- the map is very pretty, but the performance is awful (on a 7700k/1080ti). The UI is, if not ugly, at least unpolished: text overruns its columns and frequently overlaps. These are kind of minor complaints and I'm sure they'll be addressed in the first couple of patches. There are some great improvements, like being able to automate armies, which is a godsend for minor wars (who needs vassal swarms when you can just set a few legions to "independent action" and let them do their jobs?) and I hope it's a feature in every Clausewitz game going forward. The dynamic portraits are going to be awesome if/when PDS makes CK3. (And a CK map with the density of Imperator would be really amazing.)

It's definitely a map painter and even more focused on that than EU4. There is literally nothing to do during peacetime except click through and promote/assimilate pops (which is already unmanageable with 500 or so cities) but I'm hopeful this will be addressed with expansions. CK2 was also pretty barebones at launch (seriously, go watch some 1.0 Let's Plays) and EU4 only had content because it contained everything from EU3 + its expansions; Imperator seems to have borrowed only the ideas from EU: Rome and pretty much implemented everything from scratch. I guess the question is how long it'll take them to churn out improvements.

Most of all, what I want to see, is more *mechanics*. Flavor events are neat, new laws are kind of whatever, but the best CK expansions were the ones that added new dimensions of interaction, like Conclave and Way of Life. Condottiere from EU4 were also very fun. I'd like to see the Cursus Honorum implemented so you can't go making a 16 year old governor/general. "Make peacetime interesting" is also kind of important, because right now there's not much to do while you're, say, waiting for your manpower to tick back up. I have no idea how they'll fit that into the game design though.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Cruxador on April 26, 2019, 12:57:13 am
the best CK expansions were the ones that added new dimensions of interaction, like Conclave and Way of Life.
u wot

Those are two of the worst expansions in the game. Way of Life just adds some events and bundles them (and existing events) with a swappable bonus you can pick. And it swapped a perfectly serviceable education system that was reasonably accurate to the history for a micromanagement mess. Conclave theoretically adds new features but it basically just boils down to sometimes needing to bribe your government or appoint sycophants to get shit done. It's barely worth its part in the game abandoning the idea that respecting the rights of your vassals is a legitimate governance choice. How can these even remotely compare to DLC like Holy Fury, Old Gods, or Sons of Abraham that added many new mechanics and new play options without making the game worse in any way?
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: CABL on April 26, 2019, 02:49:39 am
Well, I wasn't going to buy Imperator: Rome at the launch anyway, so thanks for a small mechanics review. Honestly though, I think it has some potential for expanding peacetime mechanics, unlike EU4 where the devs only add bullshit penalties to harm the player from growing too big.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Malus on April 26, 2019, 02:53:55 am
Alright, I had to go to the wiki page to actually figure out which expansions added what. I buy them all on release and usually only put in serious time after a couple of interesting ones have stacked up. I thought Way of Life added more and for some reason I thought the Cardinal system was a vanilla feature. That said, the seduction and intrigue focuses are exactly what I mean when I say 'adding more dimensions of interaction'; and I'll stand by Conclave for making it much more interesting to play as a vassal. I wouldn't say Conclave and WoL were executed perfectly, but from a thematic standpoint, they're my favorites (alongside Monks & Mystics, which I somehow completely forgot existed; societies and the secret religious cults add more layers of gameplay beyond just the realm you're in, even if the actual content is thin). More ways to interact with existing mechanics vs. just more random flavor.

I was more trying to draw a comparison between, say, Horse Lords or Rajas of India, which are neat if you want to play in those parts of the map but otherwise don't actually add anything and if you aren't specifically pursuing that content, you probably won't interact with any Horse Lords/RoI features at all. Meanwhile, Conclave and WoL add more tools to your toolbox in a very concrete way. Same with Holy Fury, though sway/antagonize is something that probably should've been a base game feature.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: scriver on April 26, 2019, 03:27:46 am
the best CK expansions were the ones that added new dimensions of interaction, like Conclave and Way of Life.
u wot

Those are two of the worst expansions in the game. Way of Life just adds some events and bundles them (and existing events) with a swappable bonus you can pick. And it swapped a perfectly serviceable education system that was reasonably accurate to the history for a micromanagement mess.

I think Way of Life is probably the worst expansion too, but I must insist that it was Conclave that added the bad education system - it was like the only thing I dislike about Conclave.

As for Imperator, I also feel it is missing something important. Or some things. One of those is the focus on characters. I don't think I can go back from ck2 again. It just adds so much to have people to play as.

So far I've played a startout game in Crete and then I also decided to go through the tutorial. Rome is so OP, man :P
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: feelotraveller on April 26, 2019, 03:29:54 am
From what I've seen of Imperator the modding support is pretty amazing, even for Paradox.

That doesn't contravene any of the above comments though.  ;D
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on April 26, 2019, 07:07:18 am
Having played Imperator for a couple hours I have to say that it's kinda bare-bones but a solid base for modders or Paradox to do something with. I pretty much expected that from watching a bunch of videos though so unless Paradox botches upcoming DLC and updates I'm fine with it.

The UI is pretty terrible though. It's big but has a little too much dead space and important information is scattered all over the place. It took me way too long to realize that province loyalty is a tiny bar underneath governor policy or something like that. The macro builder doesn't tell you how much money/manpower/whatever you'll get like in EU4 and there's no ledger so comparing nations is a pain.

Balance is also all over the place but at least that's something that modding can fix more easily. The recruitment building does little to affect your manpower, granaries are more for keeping slaves happy than increasing pop growth, so forts and marketplaces are kinda the only buildings worth building. Forts protect stuff while marketplaces give you a little extra money and increase civilization level in the city which is pretty difficult to do otherwise and more useful than 2 extra men a month. Manpower recovers in 25 years instead of 10 in EU4 so it's even more likely to be stuck twiddling your thumbs for several years. Moving pops is difficult and slow and positively required for colonization or playing tall. Omens vary between 'worthless', 'trade-goods give a better bonus' and 'absolutely amazing'. I've been running -2.5 unrest all game because no other bonus really comes close in usefulness for a big, conquering empire.

That was a little more negative than I thought it'd be but I'd say that my gripes are solid even if I'm enjoying the game otherwise.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Man of Paper on April 26, 2019, 09:06:52 am
I'm honestly used to worse Paradox releases. I feel like this one does what it says on the tin. I've seen a lot of people complaining about some serious issues, but I've yet to experience any. I did have a stutter for the first few days that passed in my first game so it got me worried, but after that it's been fairly smooth on my junker. It's also been a lot easier to pick up and run with than previous releases, at least for me. I'm on my second game (my first was the tutorial and I wanted to sleep, so I started fresh in the morning) and it's kept me thoroughly entertained. I also noticed small states will throw money at you if they're under attack from a larger power and you match/exceed the invader's strength. Some of the smaller southern states have funded three of my expansionistic wars now.

Peacetime definitely needs some work, though. Then again there's a lot of shit going on with the characters themselves and I haven't really delved into personal politics yet. Whenever Rome falls my next game is going to be some small state so I can focus on learning about peoples.

Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: scriver on April 26, 2019, 10:14:24 am
Yeah, paradox releases tend to be bad in the crash/stability and bug sense, but so far I haven't noticed much of that at all (not a single crash). So in that way it's a very good launch for them.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Man of Paper on April 26, 2019, 02:28:09 pm
So just to note, as Latin cultures you can occupy yourself during peacetime by building roads once you got the right tradition for it. I think it's the third one down the right path? That and fortress building has provided me with ample decisions to make during peacetime in regards to developing defensive infrastructure.

But that's not something that'll hold people's attention for long. As a nation that holds elections I'm finding it difficult to get attached to, or even familiar with, just about all of the characters and families. I did enjoy arresting and banishing the disloyal Julii though.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Wafflelordling on April 26, 2019, 03:12:42 pm
Thought it was amusing that they reference Dwarf Fortress. XD

https://imgur.com/UyFZCZI
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Dostoevsky on April 26, 2019, 07:58:08 pm
Can't say I had any intentions of picking up Imperator either, until the RockPaperShotgun review did make me tempted (here: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/04/25/imperator-rome-review/).

But... that review sounds a heck of a lot different than what you all here are saying. Huh. Glad I didn't impulse-buy after reading the review (which is more or less what I did with HOI4, to much regret).
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Cruxador on April 26, 2019, 08:28:53 pm
Can't say I had any intentions of picking up Imperator either, until the RockPaperShotgun review did make me tempted (here: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/04/25/imperator-rome-review/).

But... that review sounds a heck of a lot different than what you all here are saying. Huh. Glad I didn't impulse-buy after reading the review (which is more or less what I did with HOI4, to much regret).
This thread has the opinions of people who play Paradox games, while RPS, which tends to be upbeat in general, writes for a very broad and fairly casual audience. Even so, note that the review you linked refers to EU4 trade as "mind-mangling" and assures you that Imperator diplomacy is far simpler. He also says that there wasn't much else to do besides blobbing, and although he assumed that it was because he picked a small tribe, he also says that once it was big, he got bored because there was nothing to do. When he goes to Rome, it doesn't hold his attention beyond his scheduled review time, and he talks more about what he imagined than what he experienced - the one political detail that came up is that his government didn't want him to blob but he decided to do so anyway. The information was there, just from a very different perspective.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Dostoevsky on April 27, 2019, 12:16:26 am
Eh, I had interpreted it as writing what he could of the Rome playthrough within deadline (without commenting on whether it held his attention afterwards). And the implications of "government didn't want him to blob" could be pretty interesting, depending on the details.

But I suppose I may have been looking for something to like, as pretty much every Paradox game I've approached I keep expecting to be 'more than blobbing' to varying degrees of satisfaction or disappointment.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: scriver on April 27, 2019, 07:00:07 am
So far I found my tribal play through much more political than my Rome one (which might, admittedly, have been easier because it was based from out of the tutorial), even if the relevant actors are a lot fewer. When all you can do is invade neighbours, and your fellow clan chiefs each control a significant amount of your forces, keeping them happy is the number one task of the game.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Wafflelordling on April 27, 2019, 06:28:54 pm
Its a fun game, if you want to wait patch 1.1 will have a bunch of free content including updated naval warfare, two consul systems for Rome and more character interaction. The game got over-hyped and while it is in great shape for a starting Paradox release. Looking at EU4 on launch or stellaris it should be much better further into the future. Mods are already starting up that provide interesting changes to gameplay and all that fun stuff.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 27, 2019, 07:03:25 pm
so patch 1.1 will have what should have been the release version, then in about a year with 4 dlc it will be a fun game? It's the way of Paradox
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Man of Paper on April 27, 2019, 08:03:16 pm
If anyone buys a Paradox game without expecting the Paradox standard that's on them. The fact that they're pushing out  so soon tells me either:
1) They planned on including and were working on those systems but weren't able to get them working in time for release.
or
2) They were going to hold onto it as DLC, probably stuff that would've been part of the "free update" portion.


For reference to those with weak google-fu or, like I usually am, are the absolute laziest piece of shit, here's the post from the Paradox forum re: their current roadmap

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'd say it was option b if it wasn't for the fact that some of that seems like things they'd have liked to include at launch. Sure you could break down what kind of DLCs all of that would've been attached to, but I like to have some faith in humanity.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: ConscriptFive on April 27, 2019, 09:08:42 pm
Just spent a weekend with it.  Coming from a guy who loved even Stellaris and HOI4 at release, this is probably my least favorite Paradox GSG at release since Sengoku.

There's literally nothing to do except blob on an overly huge map.  You can tell they wanted to put some interesting systems and content there, but right now, it's just framework.  I mean, I played Carthage and they give you only two national decisions.  They tried to put in a character system, but you can't even rename anybody let alone plot or even decide who to marry.  The whole electoral succession system reminds me of playing as a Republic in CK2, where the elections are so frequent and random you never end up getting attached to anyone.  There are literally only four buildings to build, yet somehow none of them are aqueducts or coliseums?  The strategic resource system makes the exact same mistake as Stellaris at release, there's so many of them that they mostly fly over your head.

Hard pass on this one until at least a Holiday Sale.  There's literally nothing there yet.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Cruxador on April 27, 2019, 11:03:56 pm
I like how the strategic resources are handled, actually.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Man of Paper on April 28, 2019, 02:24:00 am
Yeah I gotta disagree on the resource bit. It adds at least a single layer of depth and purpose to trade, and you just gotta hover your cursor over the resource for a split second to see what it does. Also, technically there's only six Strategic Resources. The rest have their own categories and spheres of effect. Each resource has three different bonuses they apply (owning, surplus, exporting), and condensing them down would make the game feel emptier.

In my opinion resources and trade are practically the only major mechanics that are pretty fleshed out at release. On a regular scale too, not the Scale of Paradox Interactive Digital Entertainment Release Standards.

Play as a Settled Tribe somewhere if you want more of a people manager. It's a bit much with a fuckton of senators and shit, but a small tribe only has a handful of characters you need to keep tabs on. There isn't a lot to do in the way of interaction, but I found myself having a lot of fun regardless - posted in the Imperator thread about it, even.

I also however do think that once again hype and hatetrains are biting into this release. It was hyped up by both Paradox and the public beyond what should have been, but I hadn't looked into Imperator until a week before release and after I'd seen some of the gameplay from youtube nerds. Shit I mean saying that now, watching a couple different people play would've shown people exactly what to expect. I went into Imperator without hype and knowing what gameplay looked like and that definitely affects the fact that I think it's a nice, fun, but very shallow game at release. I also haven't had any of the issues people have been harping about since release. Obviously the issues exist, but my personal experience has yet to be touched by them.


tl;dr opinions but I got 21 hours in the game since release but I was also entertained by the mess of Bladestorm and thought Mass Effect: Andromeda was a great new beginning for the ME universe, so I might also just have shitty tastes
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Cruxador on April 28, 2019, 08:23:38 am
After having played it a bit, I actually think this could be Paradox's best (non-CK2*) game. That's not to say that it is now, of course, but based on the framework that exists, there's strong potential for interesting gameplay once all the mechanics are made to matter. It's got some good stuff under the hood, it's just that you mostly don't care too much about it yet. But I found different governments to play pretty different, (albeit based only on the two that I tried so far) which is a very good sign. It'll be a while but still, I'm optimistic.

*I'm not necessarily saying that CK2 is better, but I think the style is too different for direct comparison.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 28, 2019, 05:25:04 pm
First of all, @Man of Paper, Bladestorm is a masterpiece and one of my favorite games of all time.

Secondly, I have not delved too many hours into Imperator yet, but to echo what has already been said it does seem a fair criticism to say that A.) the game is rather poorly optimized, and B.) there does appear to be only a thin veneer of flavor over the blobbing mechanics--I mean EUIV was already very blobby, but Imperator does little to head back to the more CKII-esque forming and reforming of nations and from some of the videos I've seen most games end up with someone blobbing big time.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: EuchreJack on October 09, 2022, 05:47:00 pm
Arise, thread from the past!

I've lately been fiddling with Megacampaigns and converters in order to get new worlds to play in EU4, Victoria 2, and HOI4.

Crusader Kings 2 is the only game I know of with a random world generator, so it's the only way I can see to get random new worlds for the titles set in the future.

I've also been curious about the Imperator to Crusader Kings 2 converter.

Anyone got any interesting worlds for any of these titles?
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 10, 2022, 08:35:34 am
The converter works for random worlds? So you can get random vic2 worlds? Surely this is not possible
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: a1s on October 10, 2022, 11:36:04 am
EU4 has had a random "new world" generator since forever. Not sure how well those convert to vic2.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: MrRoboto75 on October 10, 2022, 04:52:21 pm
The only thing I remember CK2 doing new world wise is if you had Sunset Invasion active it spawns super-aztecs in EU4's new world.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 10, 2022, 05:41:27 pm
The only thing I remember CK2 doing new world wise is if you had Sunset Invasion active it spawns super-aztecs in EU4's new world.
I'm not sure how that works now, since before it relied on everyone having their own tech school. So Aztecs would spawn with high american instead. After the institutions rework I'm guessing they would just spawn with their centralised empire and institutions? Would the game know to reform their religion too?
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: EuchreJack on October 10, 2022, 07:13:51 pm
The converter works for random worlds? So you can get random vic2 worlds? Surely this is not possible
CK2's random world (the world is the same, but the countries are all different) can be ported to EU4, then Vic2.

EU4 has had a random "new world" generator since forever. Not sure how well those convert to vic2.
Explicitly doesn't work. The map has to be the same.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: KittyTac on October 11, 2022, 12:33:38 pm
There is a random Vic2 world generator somewhere on Github if you dig around.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: EuchreJack on October 11, 2022, 12:37:46 pm
There is a random Vic2 world generator somewhere on Github if you dig around.

That means there is a random HOI4 world generator with extra steps!
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: a1s on October 11, 2022, 01:39:20 pm
HOI4 has support for worlds that are different from ours. Like a whole new map different. Not sure if there are any randomizers for it.

Thinking on it- probably not. HOI4 is very focus tree driven, and you would be denying yourself that with a randomizer.
Title: Re: Paradox General Thread- Victorian Crusader Universalis: Heart of Stellaris
Post by: LuuBluum on October 24, 2022, 07:56:38 pm
So, Victoria 3 releases tomorrow. After really taking a look I decided to grab it for myself. Honestly, a lot of the complaints seem like something that can be modded away (assuming Paradox doesn't tackle them anyway), outside of the broader complaint of "but my military" which... honestly, I have little interest in and frankly makes the actual AI approach to warfare far more salient.

I watched entire armies in CK2 kill themselves via attrition by doing we-go-on-the-boat we-go-off-the-boat ad nauseum until the war was lost, for a war they could have easily won should they have actually moved the unit anywhere other than the damn boat. This seems far more manageable, if not outright moddable to have the AI be far more sane when it comes to these sorts of things.