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Dwarf Fortress => DF Gameplay Questions => Topic started by: ScratchtasticZ on December 29, 2011, 12:37:38 am

Title: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: ScratchtasticZ on December 29, 2011, 12:37:38 am
http://www.mediafire.com/file/hxep47de9hdz46m/THIS.png (http://www.mediafire.com/file/hxep47de9hdz46m/THIS.png)

(URL since I can't get it to embed the image, sorry)

I've got an obsession with volcanoes in DF right now, and this is probably the most perfect embark I've seen so far. A volcano AND a stream? This totally fixes the one problem with my previous fortress.

BUT NO FLUX STONE. Urist McDwarfGod hates me, I think.

So of course, I think, "Well, I can trade for flux..."

I have no idea how feasible that is, though. As it stands, I'll only need flux to create iron or steel, right? You guys think I can make it?
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 29, 2011, 12:40:35 am
OH MY FUUUU.

Yes you can live without flux. Just go for candy or iron. I think deliberately forcing myself to make forts in the most unforgiving biomes in the most unforgiving simulator game has made me too die hard :|

So yes, yes you can live without flux :P
(Trading for flux and steel items to melt is a feasible plan btw).
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: saltmummy626 on December 29, 2011, 01:21:06 am
a good idea if you absolutely must have flux is to make your fort overlap several different types of stone. my last fort was in the desert at the base of a mountain. the mountain was the only one in the whole desert, so it was great for building a home. it had everything except water. was fun. had all the metals, excluding nickel and lead. downside was that there were WAY too many forgotten beasts (the one I recall most clearly was a huge, fire breathing, purple horse. but back to minerals. sometimes you get lucky sometimes not. as they say, location, location, location.
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: orius on December 29, 2011, 01:30:05 am
Oh my. That looks nice.  Easy water and magma, lots of trees to kill, lots of soil for farming.  What exactly are those metals though?  If I came across a sweet spot like this, the ores would likely end up being something lame like galena, sphalerite, and garnierite deposits.
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: rephikul on December 29, 2011, 01:43:57 am
you can import steel goods from the mountain home and melt them down. If you want perfect embarks, use some cheating tools.
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: ScratchtasticZ on December 29, 2011, 02:06:10 am
I don't really want perfect embarks, per se... I mean, sure, that's great. But having to generate like 20 maps to get one is how I paid for it. -_- Cheating really isn't as fun. Going over the maps isn't fun, either, but it's legitimate! Well, sort of. I turned off aquifers as a response to the game's dumb flux patterns. Not that it matters on this embark, anyways...

Glad to hear I should be okay here. I embarked and have been digging around in soil for about 50 minutes. I'm probably going to re-embark (I backed up the embark before I even did anything) on the same spot and pick a better site for my fort. I don't really like soil-layer forts at all, even at the start when it's quicker / better.

I plan to use the river for water by having it pump in to my cistern from all the way across the map. Cheap! Or maybe just Dwarfy. :p

@orius: Get this: there's visible obsidian above the magma spire, free for the taking. Inside that, I've spied some native gold, native copper, and some gems. I've also seen cinnabar, cobaltite, and some other stones/ores. There's a TON of white sand mixed in to the topsoil and I know there's at least two types of clay here.

@Loud Whispers: I'm still learning! I'd like to do a glacier fortress in a sinister region at some point. I think it would be really cool to do a sort of Siege of Avalon thing with a fortress like that. But um... I need to get expert at the game before I try to pull of something like that. :P

@saltmummy626: Yes, that's generally what I like, too. But the site finder is broken as far as flux goes and sometimes finding it on the map by hand is a bit of a bear.

EDIT: Strike the earth! Cudgelslides! (has been founded... again)
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: ScratchtasticZ on December 29, 2011, 02:39:56 am
This is getting off topic, but how do you guys generally prioritize tasks when you hit the embark site? Obviously things like food/water come first but I'm looking for something more specific. I'm boggling myself currently. -_-
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: rephikul on December 29, 2011, 02:50:21 am
1) Plant gathering / cheese making
2) carve out some living space
3) Booze making
4) Strike the rock, construct some statues / mechanism
5) Set up garbage dumping zone and some perimeter defenses. Begin to use burrows
6) Some form of a quick wild animal slaughtering system.
7) Set up some forges, start kitting the militias
8) Wall up, siege up
9) Kill all goblins
10) Dine in hell
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: ScratchtasticZ on December 29, 2011, 03:06:03 am
Cheese? Psh. ...That may be a good idea.

My hunter and his dog are a little outmatched by the giant badger sows. :P

Of course, what you're taking about is a bit beyond my level of expertise. xD
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: lcy03406 on December 29, 2011, 05:51:28 am
As you said, there are almost all types of ores and too many gold, so I suggest you dig deeper, and you may find marble.
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: Zaroua on December 29, 2011, 07:09:23 am
The best alternative to having a functional steel industry is to have a really, really, really good hospital. And a lot of coffins.
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: Molay on December 29, 2011, 02:03:43 pm
The best alternative to having a functional steel industry is to have a really, really, really good hospital. And a lot of coffins.

Maybe I take this sentence as my signature? It has something... magical. And it's so true :D

Back to topic: As somebody already said, you're likely to hit marble deeper down anyways. I hit marble like... on every map? I just embarked in a shurbland/desert/savanna crossspot, and it showed me no flux. There are atleast 4 layers of marble deeper down. The only question is.... Do you have iron? I have none :D
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: ScratchtasticZ on December 29, 2011, 03:28:23 pm
@lcy03406: I actually do have marble. That's flux? I was unaware! I was excited when I found it just for the ability to add some white to the black interior of my fortress (and a new line of Cudgelslides Crafts, of course). Awesome, now I can stockpile it and be good to go. The Cudgelslides Forge will be open for business as soon as we complete the move to the new areas I'm carving out.

@Zaroua: I think I'll stick to metals. Last time I tried a hospital was due to a squished dwarf and her injured baby from a cave-in. :P

@Molay: I have hematite... which I think is iron, but my geology days from when I was little are failing me, so I'd have to hit the wiki.
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 29, 2011, 04:38:20 pm
Hematite, magnetite and limonite are all the ores of iron you can find in DF. Learning is !FUN!
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: ScratchtasticZ on December 29, 2011, 04:42:24 pm
@Loud Whispers: I can make steel. :3

So, in essence, this embark is 100% flawless. Although I would like more flat ground...
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 29, 2011, 04:46:26 pm
@Loud Whispers: I can make steel. :3

So, in essence, this embark is 100% flawless. Although I would like more flat ground...

*Facepalm*

Luckily for you, all you have to do is DIG EVERYTHING.

EVERYTHING
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: UltraValican on December 29, 2011, 04:46:37 pm
@Loud Whispers: I can make steel. :3

So, in essence, this embark is 100% flawless. Although I would like more flat ground...
Channel
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: ScratchtasticZ on December 29, 2011, 04:57:26 pm
D:

The flat ground is for all those dumb yaks and chickens and other animals I have! Managing animals on a steep slope is annoying. -_-

But yes. DIG.
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 29, 2011, 05:09:43 pm
Always dig deeper. Build higher.
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: kaenneth on December 29, 2011, 06:35:57 pm
Hematite, magnetite and limonite are all the ores of iron you can find in DF. Learning is !FUN!

You forgot Goblinite.
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 29, 2011, 07:28:32 pm
Hematite, magnetite and limonite are all the ores of iron you can find in DF. Learning is !FUN!

You forgot Goblinite.

Yes but Goblinite doesn't grow on trees or the Earth, it grows on little green men!
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: ScratchtasticZ on December 29, 2011, 08:39:58 pm
Little green men scare me.

EDIT: This is the Continent of Disemboweling and I'm near Murdergirdle Stream. Does this mean I'm going to fail or the cliffs will run red with goblinoid blood?
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: bombzero on December 29, 2011, 08:55:55 pm
Little green men scare me.

EDIT: This is the Continent of Disemboweling and I'm near Murdergirdle Stream. Does this mean I'm going to fail or the cliffs will run red with goblinoid blood?

you said you had steel? get a 10 man squad on non stop training in a well stocked barracks... goblins don't stand a chance.

see, goblins are the minor issue. the real problem is figuring out what to do with the &'s and sieges by civilized nations, who have steel themselves.
also, overkill serrated disc traps are your friend...
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 29, 2011, 08:59:15 pm
Unless you do some modding, you really won't find any steel clad enemies.

I made humans my usable civ...

Steel clad Dwarves... Everywhere. Except in my lands.

Also space that 10 man squad out into 3 squads of 3-4, for more sparring.
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: ScratchtasticZ on December 29, 2011, 09:06:24 pm
@ Loud Whispers: Isn't what the other civs have highly dependent on world age and level of success? Dunno if the game works that way but it would be logical (and awesome) if it did.

@bombzero: Will have steel, yes. I still need to carve out the forge level and get the magma moved in place so I can get to work on the smelting. Naturally I can get to work on making traps of steel or glass as well, once the soldiers are geared. And I suppose I can always retreat to the underground and let those silly humans and elves think they're starving me out... :p

Speaking of smelting, does it really matter what the skill level of the dwarf doing it is? I'd like to have a few smelters running so I can pump out a lot of metals. I have maybe one good furnace operator... and a couple of dwarves who are useless to me (so they're either learning a trade or becoming soldiers). If I can use these extra dwarves to do things like produce iron/steel... that would be good.
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 29, 2011, 09:10:41 pm
Also depends on if they have the permitted reaction to make steel in the first place >_>

Oh and furnace operating at higher levels means you're dwarves will pump out higher quality bars, and do it quickly. Yeah, not very important though, unless you plan on selling the bars directly to other civs.
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: ScratchtasticZ on December 29, 2011, 09:42:44 pm
Hmm. Fair enough.

And okay. Does the quality of the bar impact the quality of the finished product at all?
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: ayoriceball on December 29, 2011, 09:50:19 pm
And okay. Does the quality of the bar impact the quality of the finished product at all?

Bars have quality?
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: kaenneth on December 29, 2011, 09:51:22 pm
Murdergirdle

I can't stop giggling. nor can I say that 10 times fast.
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: ScratchtasticZ on December 29, 2011, 09:51:44 pm
And okay. Does the quality of the bar impact the quality of the finished product at all?

Bars have quality?

Loud Whispers said they do. I'm not sure. I can see it; mechanisms have quality, after all.

EDIT:

@kaenneth: Baha. And it's the Continent of Disemboweling, too. A fitting name for a stream in said place.
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: ayoriceball on December 29, 2011, 09:55:11 pm
And okay. Does the quality of the bar impact the quality of the finished product at all?

Bars have quality?

Loud Whispers said they do. I'm not sure. I can see it; mechanisms have quality, after all.

The wiki doesn't say that. I'm sure furnace operating only affects speed.
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 29, 2011, 09:58:05 pm
I've seen bars with quality, though I might just be mistaken >_<

Too much time at the trade depot ;P
I'll look it up
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: ScratchtasticZ on December 29, 2011, 10:01:48 pm
@ayoriceball: I'll find out soon enough. Soon as I load up my fortress I have to deal with some elven traders and then focus on my move to the new fortress I'm digging out. One of the first things I'll be setting up are magma smelters, so I'll be able to see for sure once that's going.

@Loud Whispers: Maybe you're thinking of blocks? AND I KNOW. I spent like 30 minutes trading last night, and I'm sure that's on the lower end of time spent at the depot. Although I must say... this is probably the fortress with the highest amount of wealth produced in goods before the Mountainhome caravan that I've had. I bought all sorts of crap that I didn't even really need (plants, extra booze, another anvil, some picks, etc) and still had another bin of goods left over. Obsidian w/ gems for the win. :D

That's the gameplan for tonight, though. Elves and metal. :P
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: Nameless Archon on December 30, 2011, 03:21:00 pm
If this embark should turn out poorly, I'd recommend THIS ONE (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=64032.msg2407024#msg2407024) for your next excursion.

Sand, forest, brook, magma, mountain, soil... and flat, with one large mountain peak for an entrance. I love it.
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: ScratchtasticZ on December 30, 2011, 04:30:22 pm
That map. Tears to my eyes, running down my blubbering human face. ;_;

Kinda cheap using a map that is premade though. Like I mentioned previously, I went through like 20 worlds to find the one I'm currently using.

I'm hoping my current embark goes well but if not, I'd like to load up the one you linked just to poke around and see what's there. Thanks!
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: orius on December 31, 2011, 02:47:16 am
There's only one volcano on my current world map, but it's not a bad spot:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Not a lot of ore variety there just some hematite and tetrahedrite (and candy).  So nothing fancy, just some basic iron and copper, with a chance of silver.  Unfortunately, there's no flux.  There's also plenty of sand.  It's a grasslands biome, so there's not a lot of trees either, but at least charcoal isn't needed.  I think I might put my next fort there.
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: ScratchtasticZ on December 31, 2011, 05:07:14 am
That's not a bad amount of trees, really. You'd be okay for a little while. Map looks nice, actually. I miss having flat spaces. -_-

And you use Ironhand too! :D
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 31, 2011, 10:55:49 am
I don't even have copper on my map. I'm using captured weapons and armour I got from butchering my dogs :P

*inb4 a Titan kills all of my champion wrestlers
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: ScratchtasticZ on December 31, 2011, 12:17:22 pm
@Loud Whispers: Wouldn't a Titan be a bit of a tough fight even if your dwarves had weapons? :p

One time I made an embark and played for a bit and this giant badger boar or whatever killed my hunter. This was annoying; it was like five minutes in. And the damn thing even got a name because of it. So I just threw all my remaining dwarves in to a squad and had them attack the giant badger boar. I was not overly surprised when the "wrestler squad" got destroyed piecemeal.

And that's how we get things done in my fortresses. All for one!

Cudgelslides has been more fortunate thus far. :P
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 31, 2011, 12:50:51 pm
@Loud Whispers: Wouldn't a Titan be a bit of a tough fight even if your dwarves had weapons? :p

I expect 3-7 to die by the Titans directly, syndromes could increase this a bit :P
It's really a good way to live without flux. Or any metals. Or weapons. 2nd year in, I have 43 soldiers, 28 of whom would be able to take down sieges, and 12 marksmen. Crossbow spam is brilliant (and a requirement for above ground forts - damn buzzards).

One time I made an embark and played for a bit and this giant badger boar or whatever killed my hunter. This was annoying; it was like five minutes in. And the damn thing even got a name because of it. So I just threw all my remaining dwarves in to a squad and had them attack the giant badger boar. I was not overly surprised when the "wrestler squad" got destroyed piecemeal.

And that's how we get things done in my fortresses. All for one!

Cudgelslides has been more fortunate thus far. :P

Giant Badger boars can be scared away with dogs, just never engage them with untrained and unarmoured Dorfs :)

So yeah. No steel?

1. Recruit every useless migrant that arrives on your fortress into standard squads of 3 (and schedule for 2).
2. Reach a quota of recruiting above 50% of entire population.
3. Equip with whatever you can find.

?!?!?

4. Lotsa Dorfs are dead, but you now have a few elite supersoldiers.

Once you have pro. army up, recruit entire population. If all else really fails... Charge of the drunk brigade. (Over a hundred Dorfs charging a Titan is a beautiful sight in all of it's ASCII glory :P)
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: ScratchtasticZ on December 31, 2011, 11:39:31 pm
Well, I didn't really intend for that poor hunter to die, but he brought it on himself. :P

I think the toughest thing my hunter has fought this time around was a rhesus macaque. I like the Rhesus Pieces idea on the wiki. xD
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: highmax28 on January 01, 2012, 12:00:00 am
@Loud Whispers: Wouldn't a Titan be a bit of a tough fight even if your dwarves had weapons? :p

I expect 3-7 to die by the Titans directly, syndromes could increase this a bit :P
It's really a good way to live without flux. Or any metals. Or weapons. 2nd year in, I have 43 soldiers, 28 of whom would be able to take down sieges, and 12 marksmen. Crossbow spam is brilliant (and a requirement for above ground forts - damn buzzards).

One time I made an embark and played for a bit and this giant badger boar or whatever killed my hunter. This was annoying; it was like five minutes in. And the damn thing even got a name because of it. So I just threw all my remaining dwarves in to a squad and had them attack the giant badger boar. I was not overly surprised when the "wrestler squad" got destroyed piecemeal.

And that's how we get things done in my fortresses. All for one!

Cudgelslides has been more fortunate thus far. :P

Giant Badger boars can be scared away with dogs, just never engage them with untrained and unarmoured Dorfs :)

So yeah. No steel?

1. Recruit every useless migrant that arrives on your fortress into standard squads of 3 (and schedule for 2).
2. Reach a quota of recruiting above 50% of entire population.
3. Equip with whatever you can find.

?!?!?

4. Lotsa Dorfs are dead, but you now have a few elite supersoldiers.

Once you have pro. army up, recruit entire population. If all else really fails... Charge of the drunk brigade. (Over a hundred Dorfs charging a Titan is a beautiful sight in all of it's ASCII glory :P)
It kinda reminds me of how I ended my reign of a scession game waaay too early, except replace the titan with HFS ;) Only other funny thing was one of my soldiers fighting off an ambush and giving birth and throwing her baby at the ambush and killing a goblin with it (baby lived and became named Battle-Born) Got like novice misc. User for that epic throw  8)
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 01, 2012, 12:25:38 am
Ah the age old battle tactic; Dwarf Baby toss.

The only downside I can think of turning your entire fortress into a standing army is industry lag and if your army dies...

Everything dies :D
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: ScratchtasticZ on January 01, 2012, 02:35:06 am
Baha, wow. That's some hilarious stuff. xD

EDIT: While I'm here, I just read that galena is lead/silver. Since galena (and lead) are very dense, does this make it good for making giant balls for weapon traps? Or other blunt weapons in general?
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 01, 2012, 02:37:28 am
Silver is the best non-moodable material for blunt weapons, so yeah ;P
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: ayoriceball on January 01, 2012, 02:50:15 am
Baha, wow. That's some hilarious stuff. xD

EDIT: While I'm here, I just read that galena is lead/silver. Since galena (and lead) are very dense, does this make it good for making giant balls for weapon traps? Or other blunt weapons in general?

Silver is great. Lead is not.

example;
Lead: [IMPACT_YIELD:35000]
Silver: [IMPACT_YIELD:350000]
Copper: [IMPACT_YIELD:245000]
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: ScratchtasticZ on January 01, 2012, 03:18:50 am
Odd. Is copper actually more dense than lead in real life? >_>

Regardless, thanks for the info. =]
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: orius on January 01, 2012, 04:39:16 am
That's not a bad amount of trees, really. You'd be okay for a little while. Map looks nice, actually. I miss having flat spaces. -_-

And you use Ironhand too! :D

The trees aren't a big problem if you use the wood wisely.  And I suppose you could buy elf cloth if you really need bins badly.

Here's the info and stuff for the world:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Embark location:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: ayoriceball on January 01, 2012, 11:51:32 am
Odd. Is copper actually more dense than lead in real life? >_>

Regardless, thanks for the info. =]

That's not density. That's impact yield. There's more to how weapons and armor work (you can see this in the raws for wood, metal, etc.). Even though lead is actually quite heavy, it's not good for weapons. Impact_Yield is mainly used for blunt attacks, which is why I posted it.

Just use all that crappy metal for furniture. :P
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: Skorpion on January 01, 2012, 12:27:51 pm
You can live without flux. It's just difficult to import as many rocks and as much steel as you need.

A challenge is living without IRON. At least in ore form. Mine it from goblins and caravans. Import iron goods by the wagon-load, SCOUR the landscape for every last iron arrow. Steel becomes the most precious thing in the fortress. If a steel-clad champion falls in the magma moat, you get him the fuck out. Who cares if that takes a huge construction to transfer water over into the moat? THAT'S MASTERWORK STEEL ARMOUR! Have you any idea how much copper and bone went into training that smith? We'll be selling bone helms and turtle shell gauntlets for decades.
It's even more Fun if you have no trees, too. You're scrabbling to get logs from the caverns and from traders. Choose between beds for the migrants or charcoal for your limited amount of steel.
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: proxn_punkd on January 01, 2012, 12:36:45 pm
If you've got a volcano, you have the means to make an obsidian farm for infinite obsidian. Obsidian goods have a high value multiplier.

Yes, you can trade for flux. It won't come in very large quantities, but it will come. I've also successfully traded for steel and pig iron from the motherland, and since discovering how powerful glass serrated disc traps can be, I've traded for large quantities of sand.
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: ScratchtasticZ on January 01, 2012, 05:04:18 pm
Well, it seems I have just about everything at my embark. I have marble. The site finder lied. :P I also have native gold, native silver, copper, iron, naturally-occuring obsidian, white sand, etc etc etc...

I really need to go play. Like now. -_-

Is it bad that I have post-it notes stuck to my PC tower reminding me what to do? ...

"DF
*Elven Caravan
*The Move ---> New Location"

:P
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: ScratchtasticZ on January 01, 2012, 05:08:09 pm
Odd. Is copper actually more dense than lead in real life? >_>

Regardless, thanks for the info. =]

That's not density. That's impact yield. There's more to how weapons and armor work (you can see this in the raws for wood, metal, etc.). Even though lead is actually quite heavy, it's not good for weapons. Impact_Yield is mainly used for blunt attacks, which is why I posted it.

Just use all that crappy metal for furniture. :P

But this makes no sense because a ball of copper and a ball of lead of equal volume... the lead would have the greater mass and thus have more force if swung at the same speeeeed!

Oh well, perhaps we can create lead crafts and sell them to the elves and hope they get POISONED.

EDIT: Double post because... well, because.
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 01, 2012, 05:10:24 pm
The copper would have the greater density, so the greater mass.
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: ayoriceball on January 01, 2012, 05:43:34 pm
Odd. Is copper actually more dense than lead in real life? >_>

Regardless, thanks for the info. =]

That's not density. That's impact yield. There's more to how weapons and armor work (you can see this in the raws for wood, metal, etc.). Even though lead is actually quite heavy, it's not good for weapons. Impact_Yield is mainly used for blunt attacks, which is why I posted it.

Just use all that crappy metal for furniture. :P

But this makes no sense because a ball of copper and a ball of lead of equal volume... the lead would have the greater mass and thus have more force if swung at the same speeeeed!

Oh well, perhaps we can create lead crafts and sell them to the elves and hope they get POISONED.

EDIT: Double post because... well, because.

There's more to it than that. Like shear yield and impact fracture and impact elasticity... which all add up to making silver better than lead. much better.
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: proxn_punkd on January 01, 2012, 05:48:59 pm
Odd. Is copper actually more dense than lead in real life? >_>

Regardless, thanks for the info. =]

That's not density. That's impact yield. There's more to how weapons and armor work (you can see this in the raws for wood, metal, etc.). Even though lead is actually quite heavy, it's not good for weapons. Impact_Yield is mainly used for blunt attacks, which is why I posted it.

Just use all that crappy metal for furniture. :P

But this makes no sense because a ball of copper and a ball of lead of equal volume... the lead would have the greater mass and thus have more force if swung at the same speeeeed!

Lead is soft and would probably absorb its own impact.
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: ScratchtasticZ on January 01, 2012, 08:35:49 pm
This is true, lead is a soft metal.

I like how all of this stuff is numerically categorized. :D
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: highmax28 on January 01, 2012, 08:54:59 pm
God, I learn new things everyday :o And whats the secret to bringing water to any source of lava (magma sea mostly) and making obsidian, cause I never manage to get water to reach there :-[ and I'm using a river!
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: ayoriceball on January 01, 2012, 09:19:23 pm
God, I learn new things everyday :o And whats the secret to bringing water to any source of lava (magma sea mostly) and making obsidian, cause I never manage to get water to reach there :-[ and I'm using a river!

Floodgates.
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: highmax28 on January 01, 2012, 09:25:27 pm
God, I learn new things everyday :o And whats the secret to bringing water to any source of lava (magma sea mostly) and making obsidian, cause I never manage to get water to reach there :-[ and I'm using a river!

Floodgates.
I swear, thats the awnser to all of the problems in DF :P Thanks!
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 02, 2012, 12:12:50 pm
If floodgates fail, use doors/hatches. Or bridges.
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: highmax28 on January 02, 2012, 12:13:53 pm
If floodgates fail, use doors/hatches. Or bridges.
FLOODGATES FAIL!? :o IMPOSSIBLE!
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: bombzero on January 10, 2012, 07:36:38 pm
If floodgates fail, use doors/hatches. Or bridges.
FLOODGATES FAIL!? :o IMPOSSIBLE!

its all fun and games until a dead moth gets stuck in the way, then its something about boats being murdered.
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: vassock on January 10, 2012, 08:04:17 pm
My fort has no flux. It's no big deal.
Title: Re: Embark w/o Flux - Doable?
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on January 10, 2012, 09:31:07 pm
Cage traps, war dogs, and training weapons mixed with leather armor, wood shields, and bone bolts until you can get a trap using water and/or magma working. Then worry about steel.