Post by: monk12 on November 21, 2011, 05:32:37 pm
Unfortunately, this is very likely to get you killed.
More than a thousand years ago, the great Necromancer Balkoth warred across the world, using his terrible magic to conquer and ravage, obliterating any opponent that stood in his way. Like many similar stories, this one ends with an unlikely band of heroes rising up to slay him in battle and end his reign of tyranny, or some such. You never did pay as much attention to your teachers as you should have. The pertinent information from that particular lesson was that no nation on Urak will suffer a Necromancer to live, lest he once again shatter the nations.
It's not that you wanted to be a necromancer, exactly. When you were born, the sages remarked on your great potential, but when the Time of Testing came you failed to manifest the Powers of your People. Er, who are your people again?
You are one of the Elves of Yicelafo, "The Young Vale." Elves have greater magical potential than other races, and are specially attuned to their surroundings, but between the immortality and the cremating there aren't many corpses just kick'n around. Elves have little knowledge of history and their Mages wield the power of Life to heal, renew, and grow.
You are a human of Thrimesdur, "The Cremated Empire." The Empire is old, and its libraries hold the knowledge of the ancients (which may be invaluable in harnessing your burgeoning Necromantic powers.) Plus, between the ancient battlefields, mass graveyards, and well-preserved crypts, there are a LOT of corpses to be getting on with! The Wizards of Thrimesdur specialize in manipulating the forces of Order for divination and protective magics.
You are a human living on the Jeweled Coast. Like most living in the coastal villages of the Sapphire Sea, you have a penchant for stealth, and the independent city-states are centers of trade; magical items and scrolls can be found here more easily than anywhere else. Most towns bury their dead at sea, but many of the larger cities have extensive catacombs and ornate mausoleums for the wealthy and powerful. The predominant Faith is the worship of the elemental force of Water, and the Mystics use this power in a variety of ways.
Spoiler: Author's note (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Chapter I (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Chapter II (click to show/hide)
Post by: monk12 on November 21, 2011, 05:33:08 pm
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Old Maps (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: General Rules (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Equipment (click to show/hide)
Post by: Hubris Incalculable on November 21, 2011, 06:13:08 pm
Post by: Darvi on November 21, 2011, 06:27:46 pm
Post by: monk12 on November 21, 2011, 09:42:06 pm
You never felt comfortable in your various apprenticeships, and never settled down to master a craft. As time went on, you found yourself drawn to solitary pursuits, and came to become a fair Fisher. Life was pleasant, for a time. But as you approached adulthood, you began to feel... strange. You'd awake in the night in a cold sweat, your Mana depleted. You'd experience the oddest headaches, and sometimes it felt as though all the life around you burned with a cold inner fire.
Today had been a fairly normal day- you'd gone to your private fishing hole, a small pond on the edges of the Vale that fed into the Great River. You'd already caught a nice large trout, leaving it to air-drown while you continued fishing. As midday approached, you decided to take a brief lunch break, but when you reached to pick up the fish a small purple spark flashed from you to it, and the trout started flopping along the ground, eyes glowing with purple, phosphorescent flames. You promptly passed out.
Now you are awake, and the trout zombie is placidly swimming about the pool. You'll have to deal with your new powers sooner or later- you could try to figure things out yourself (and you'll certainly have to, to some degree,) but you have little knowledge of the methods or hazards involved. You could try to ask the Mages in the village some general questions about magic, but you'll have to be careful not to give yourself away. The local Sage is a garrulous old elf, and with a bit of prompting you could get him to tell stories of other Necromancers who have arisen (or tried to, at least) since the Golgothan War- their lives might hold clues to mastering your Power. Perhaps most extremely, you could set out to the large cities of Man in an attempt to find Necromantic scrolls or magical items to learn from. Or maybe there's another way, a better way, if you can but think of it.
Whatever you do, you must make sure nobody discovers your... talents. If they do, you will be hunted down and killed by the ruthlessly efficient Elven Rangers. And you'll also have to decide what to do, exactly, with your powers. World conquest seems like a popular theme (according to the songs, anyway,) but surely there's another use for a nigh-infinite supply of cheap labor!
It is midafternoon. What now?
Spoiler: Author's Note (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Post by: Mullet Master on November 21, 2011, 09:46:03 pm
Post by: NRDL on November 21, 2011, 09:54:46 pm
Post by: Elvisdogs on November 21, 2011, 10:09:02 pm
1. Gain Control of Powers
2. Extend Powers
3. Create Zombies
4. Start Business
5. ?????
6. corporate domination
Post by: Dwarmin on November 21, 2011, 10:21:45 pm
We need to resist using any magic until we have control. Lets carefully ply the elders with questions...
Also, is there anyone we could possibly trust with this secret? Friends? Family? A lover? It's terribly dangerous, but if just one person can understand...
Post by: Grek on November 21, 2011, 10:38:21 pm
Once you've got the fish, take it somewhere isolated (where it can't escape into a major river; perhaps in a bucket?) and study it. See if it moves like a normal fish, if it breathes water, what (if anything) it eats, whether we can command it, if it is still rotting, if it is any more agressive than a natural trout and so on and so forth. Use each cantrip on the undead fish and compare to what you know of natural fish.
Once you've figured out how the fish works, take Mullet's suggestion of trying out different sorts of fish and work with those. There's no need to make any rash decisions about what to do and where to go immediately. See if you can't work out how to reliably revive fish when you want and how to keep yourself from using necromancy by accident. Let's puzzle out what we can for now and decide the rest later, with better information.
Post by: woose1 on November 21, 2011, 10:58:07 pm
The very first order of business, of course, is to capture or, failing that, rekill the fish that you just revived. We cannot afford for it to escape into the Great River and wash downstream for someone to find. That would be an utter disaster.This. And after, if we're still hungry, eat the zombie trout.
Once you've got the fish, take it somewhere isolated (where it can't escape into a major river; perhaps in a bucket?) and study it. See if it moves like a normal fish, if it breathes water, what (if anything) it eats, whether we can command it, if it is still rotting, if it is any more agressive than a natural trout and so on and so forth. Use each cantrip on the undead fish and compare to what you know of natural fish.
Once you've figured out how the fish works, take Mullet's suggestion of trying out different sorts of fish and work with those. There's no need to make any rash decisions about what to do and where to go immediately. See if you can't work out how to reliably revive fish when you want and how to keep yourself from using necromancy by accident. Let's puzzle out what we can for now and decide the rest later, with better information.
Post by: monk12 on November 21, 2011, 11:37:40 pm
Find insect. Kill insect. Raise insect. Probably an ant or fly.
With little effort, you find a butterfly. Displaying the cunning of your elvish ancestors you stalk the magnificent creature. As it alights on a flower, you sneak up and... SPLAT! Belatedly, you realize you probably need a more intact corpse than the smear of butterfly goo you've produced.
Some further searching yields an anthill, and you settle down to experiment. What you rapidly discover is that it is hard to kill an insect without squashing it. Ripping off their legs doesn't seem to be killing them very fast. You behead one and wait for it to stop squirming, then bring your will to bear.
Raise Dead.
An icy shock runs through your body as you feel energy rush through you and into the ant. The ant rises to its feet, a cold purple flame where its head once was. It begins to shamble aimlessly.
You are surprised at how much Mana that consumed- 2 units! Surely it should take less energy to raise a mere ant than a great big fish! There is so much you do not know...
We need to gather information-and we need help.
We need to resist using any magic until we have control. Lets carefully ply the elders with questions...
Also, is there anyone we could possibly trust with this secret? Friends? Family? A lover? It's terribly dangerous, but if just one person can understand...
As you eat your lunch, you ponder who it may be safe to share your secret with. There will be precious little sympathy for your situation- when Balkoth brought the Golgothan War to the Sacred Groves, he butchered every elf he caught and put the woods to the torch. You know the Elves were nearly driven to extinction in that clash- you'll have to ask Pevo Zephyrtempest, the village Sage, for more information there.
You've drifted apart from your friends in recent years, but you still speak with your best friend, Omo Thunderjaw, whenever you see him. That hasn't been often of late, as he is training with the Rangers, though he is home now. You think he'd take risks on your behalf, provided he wasn't aware of the specifics. Your mother is a successful Mage and spends her time in the tree-city of Yicelafo proper, and your father is a lieutenant of the Rangers himself, often patrolling the edges of the Vale. You'd like to think you could tell them anything. You've never taken a serious lover, apart from that fling with Elana Foundwasps- in fact, the end of that relationship is when you began withdrawing from society... and when the onset of your powers began, you realize. She's training to be a Mage now, manipulating the magics of Life.
The very first order of business, of course, is to capture or, failing that, rekill the fish that you just revived. We cannot afford for it to escape into the Great River and wash downstream for someone to find. That would be an utter disaster.This. And after, if we're still hungry, eat the zombie trout.
Once you've got the fish, take it somewhere isolated (where it can't escape into a major river; perhaps in a bucket?) and study it. See if it moves like a normal fish, if it breathes water, what (if anything) it eats, whether we can command it, if it is still rotting, if it is any more agressive than a natural trout and so on and so forth. Use each cantrip on the undead fish and compare to what you know of natural fish.
Once you've figured out how the fish works, take Mullet's suggestion of trying out different sorts of fish and work with those. There's no need to make any rash decisions about what to do and where to go immediately. See if you can't work out how to reliably revive fish when you want and how to keep yourself from using necromancy by accident. Let's puzzle out what we can for now and decide the rest later, with better information.
You notice that the zombie trout is very easy to spot, what with the glowing purple eyes and all. Panicking, you splash into the pond to recapture it! You notice it does not flee you the way the other fish do, and soon you have it back on dry land. Setting it down, it flops about like any other fish would, albeit less enthusiastically. Nudging it away with your foot you wait a minute, two minutes, five... it appears the fish no longer needs water to survive. You attempt to discern whether it is still decomposing, but in vain- it has been dead only a few hours, after all.
Carefully, you walk back into the water with it, observing it as it swims. It certainly doesn't appear interested in you, nor does it appear to be interested in any other of the pond's inhabitants. The other fish do seem to avoid your zombie, however. As it lazily swims to the other side of the pond, you attempt to recall it mentally, to no avail. "Here, zombie zombie zombie..." doesn't do you much good either.
Retrieving the fish manually, you set down on the shore and begin to test it with your cantrips. Detect Magic indicates that this is indeed a magical fish- further, you can feel the ant a bit further off. Remembering the ant, you leap to your feet and set off to crush it before it gets away from you! You find it beset by the other ants- it vivisects another as you watch, and judging by the bodies it has singlehandedly destroyed half a dozen others. As you watch it is swarmed under by the other ants; the purple fire goes out as it is cut in two, and the body is carried back to the anthill.
Returning to your inspection of the fish, you feel your Calm Animal spell rebound, as if you had cast it on a tree or another elf. You then cast Sense Vitality- the fish registers, but strangely. It feels rather as if the fish's vitality is not its own. Focusing on a trout on the far side of the pond, you cast the spell again- by your reckoning, your zombie has almost half the vitality of the living trout.
You decide you've learned what you can from this trout for now- after all, if necessary you can always catch another fish. You fancifully entertain the notion of eating the fish- after a moment, the fancy turns into curiosity. You set to butchering the fish, a task made much more difficult what with it flopping around everywhere. Once you have extracted the fish's guts, the purple phosphorescence fades from its eyes. You pause for a moment, then conclude your cleaning of the fish.
You have had success with fish, but it is draining. Perhaps something smaller is afoot. Using your fishing ability, it would be best to catch many small creatures of the pond, such as crawfish, minnows, and other small fish. They can be easily transported... DEAD, back to a private place.
You realize that your pond is by no means a private place- everyone who knows you knows to find you here. You resolve to catch as many small creatures as you can to experiment on later, in some more private place. An hour or so later you've managed to catch a dozen of the crayfish that abound in the pond- easy enough to pass them off as fishbait should anyone wonder what you're doing with a pouch full of the critters.
You'll have to search for a new place to practice tomorrow, however. You return home at sunset, nodding to the other villagers as you make your way to your parents home. You have the place to yourself now since both of them are gone. For dinner, you decide to cook up your formerly zombified fish- to your tongue, it tastes no different than a normal fish. You sleep peacefully through the night, and awaken fresh in the morning.
You plan to find a new, private place to practice your arts. You could travel North, further into the woods and try to find a secluded glen. Traveling East would bring you upriver- there may be a more private little branch or creek there. Traveling South would bring you to the cliffs that contain the Vale- perhaps there is a cave there. Or should you question the elders before you leave today?
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Post by: woose1 on November 21, 2011, 11:52:44 pm
If we can't find any books or other educational tools, we should set to work trying to make the zombies that we raise do our bidding, rather than just wander around aimlessly and kill anything that moves. Perhaps if we kill a crayfish but keep its brain intact, then immediately raise it?
Obviously we go south. Any self-respecting necromancer has an evil cave of doom.
EDIT: Is there any way to store mana in objects for future use? Say, if we want to try and raise something bigger.
Post by: Grek on November 22, 2011, 12:18:18 am
There's no need to set out right away, of course. That would look suspicious. Instead, split your time between experimenting in private with necromancy (I'm sure the others will have all sorts of suggestions for things to try) and asking around about the history of Thrimesdur. Pevo, your mother, Elana, whoever might know about history. Take good notes and occasionally hint at wanting to go see the world and study abroad. You can work out the rest laster.
Post by: woose1 on November 22, 2011, 12:25:57 am
I have a cunning plan: You shall pretend to become a historian. When the time comes that you can make no further progress here, either due to lack of materials or being unable to learn more without resources to study, tell the village (and any humans that ask about you) that that you are departing for Thrimesdur to study the history of the Cremated Empire. This provides a legitimate excuse for you to be wandering ancient battlefields, studying in libraries and exploring abandoned tombs. Who would suspect a mild-mannered elven scholar with little proficency in magic to be a necromancer?Ignore my suggestion. This is better.
There's no need to set out right away, of course. That would look suspicious. Instead, split your time between experimenting in private with necromancy (I'm sure the others will have all sorts of suggestions for things to try) and asking around about the history of Thrimesdur. Pevo, your mother, Elana, whoever might know about history. Take good notes and occasionally hint at wanting to go see the world and study abroad. You can work out the rest laster.
Post by: lurtze1 on November 22, 2011, 03:17:08 am
Seconded and maybe if we take the job as an librarian we can earn some money on the side <.< >.>I have a cunning plan: You shall pretend to become a historian. When the time comes that you can make no further progress here, either due to lack of materials or being unable to learn more without resources to study, tell the village (and any humans that ask about you) that that you are departing for Thrimesdur to study the history of the Cremated Empire. This provides a legitimate excuse for you to be wandering ancient battlefields, studying in libraries and exploring abandoned tombs. Who would suspect a mild-mannered elven scholar with little proficency in magic to be a necromancer?Ignore my suggestion. This is better.
There's no need to set out right away, of course. That would look suspicious. Instead, split your time between experimenting in private with necromancy (I'm sure the others will have all sorts of suggestions for things to try) and asking around about the history of Thrimesdur. Pevo, your mother, Elana, whoever might know about history. Take good notes and occasionally hint at wanting to go see the world and study abroad. You can work out the rest laster.
I played to much adom....
Post by: Dwarmin on November 22, 2011, 07:26:11 am
I agree-lets make ourselves a respectable Historian. It will bring more attention to us, but what attention there is will be much less likely to be hostile or suspcious.
Send a carefully written letter to Elana Foundwasps, as well. Is there still anything between us?
As for experiments, I suggest seeing if we can animate dead plants as well as animals and insects.
Post by: monk12 on November 22, 2011, 11:51:53 pm
Seconded and maybe if we take the job as an librarian we can earn some money on the side <.< >.>I have a cunning plan: You shall pretend to become a historian. When the time comes that you can make no further progress here, either due to lack of materials or being unable to learn more without resources to study, tell the village (and any humans that ask about you) that that you are departing for Thrimesdur to study the history of the Cremated Empire. This provides a legitimate excuse for you to be wandering ancient battlefields, studying in libraries and exploring abandoned tombs. Who would suspect a mild-mannered elven scholar with little proficency in magic to be a necromancer?Ignore my suggestion. This is better.
There's no need to set out right away, of course. That would look suspicious. Instead, split your time between experimenting in private with necromancy (I'm sure the others will have all sorts of suggestions for things to try) and asking around about the history of Thrimesdur. Pevo, your mother, Elana, whoever might know about history. Take good notes and occasionally hint at wanting to go see the world and study abroad. You can work out the rest laster.
I played to much adom....
As you munch on a wholesome breakfast, you devise a plan. Over the next few days and weeks you'll express a keen interest in ancient history, especially that of Thrimesdur. You are a bit young for such a venture, but wanderlust is not unknown among the Elves and your people are on exceedingly good terms with Thrimesdur- their caravans are the only humans allowed through The Walled Jungles, on their journey to the Jeweled Coast.
The plan has its merits- it will be easier to practice your Necromantic arts in the vast stretches of wilderness in The Cremated Empire, the great libraries of that nation may hold further clues to the Necromantic art and the secrets of the ancient Necromancers, and there's plenty of old battlefields and tombs to explore for artifacts and... test subjects, let's say? Your biggest hurdles will be getting permission to leave the Vale and gathering the supplies to sustain yourself on such a journey. You are confidant you can wear down the Elders given time (and the influence of your mother,) and although you don't have any money (preferring to fish for self-sufficiency and doing odd tasks for incidentals) it shouldn't be too hard to earn the money, one way or another.
But first things first! You head to the heart of the hamlet, cordially greeting the elves you pass, a smile here, a wave there. In good spirits, you arrive at the Temple of Aye Valleymists, the elven deity associated with Life, the Forest, and Rivers. The Temple is a bit larger than the other buildings of the hamlet- most homes are one or two room treehouses, built of deadwood and cunningly woven into the living branches. The Temple is much larger, comprising a dozen or more rooms spread throughout the branches of a massive oak tree. The Mage Ari Wetdawn is teaching a couple of young children the basics of Magic on the grass below the Temple.
You watch as Ari guides them through a children's exercise, remembering when you yourself performed it. Ari and the children sit around a flower, eyes closed, hands outstretched. The flower is wreathed in green flames, with tendrils of gold twining about the leaves and stem. As you watch, the flower grows visibly healthier, taller, brighter. After a few moments, the lesson is concluded, and Ari dismisses the children, who promptly run off laughing. You approach Ari before he returns to the Temple interior.
I never understood the point of that exercise, Ari. They're too young to be manifesting any Life magic- why not stick to general magic?
Ah, but this is one of the ways we determine who will manifest such talents! It's important to catch them at a young age, so we can teach them properly.
Why? What would happen if, say, they were learning magic on their own?
Oh, a great many things could happen to the unwary practitioner. They could attempt a task beyond their capabilities, tapping too much of their Mana reserve, which could stunt their magical growth. Too, many of the more powerful Life spells require the caster to sacrifice some of his own Vitality- if you don't know what you're doing, you could seriously hurt or even kill yourself.
I had no idea it was that risky.
Oh, it isn't so common a threat as that- Life magics sometimes surface among the humans, where they don't have a Life Mage handy to recognize the early signs, but they rarely die of the gift before others realize what is happening.
How can non-Mages recognize the gift, Ari?
The signs get much more obvious- if they don't realize what is going on, they begin to spontaneously cast Life spells due to Mana buildup. Plants start blooming out of season, people nearby are cured of their ills, so on and so forth. Sooner or later they put two and two together and send the young Mage to us for tutelage.
What's Mana buildup?
When your magical ability is growing, it requires exercise, same as your muscles, or your mind. You seem full of questions today.
Oh, I've just been thinking, and discovering I have few new thoughts to think- I want to hear new things, see new places. I'm beginning to wish I had paid more attention to the Sages as a child. Speaking of, have you seen Pevo Zephyrtempest about?
I'm afraid not, young one- I believe he was visiting family a few villages over. He should be back tomorrow, if you wish to see him. I hope you'll excuse me, magical business to attend to, you know how it is.
Thank you for your time, Ari Wetdawn.
Yeah, can we not just disappear into a cave somewhere, yet? :P
I agree-lets make ourselves a respectable Historian. It will bring more attention to us, but what attention there is will be much less likely to be hostile or suspcious.
Send a carefully written letter to Elana Foundwasps, as well. Is there still anything between us?
As for experiments, I suggest seeing if we can animate dead plants as well as animals and insects.
You feel pretty good about this morning, and head home for a quick lunch. You find yourself reminiscing about Elana Foundwasps- you had some good times, until she left you. In truth, you were envious of her Power, Power you had thought to possess, and she had lacked the patience and understanding to deal with your childish jealousy. It's easy to recognize now, with the passage of time and the discovery of your own Power. She had begun her formal training not long after your breakup, and you haven't spoken since.
Perhaps, you think to yourself, perhaps this is a relationship worth resurrecting in one form or another. After all, she's a magic-user on the rise, you're a young magic-user on the rise... not that you can really tell her you are, but still. Even if you can't recapture the way things used to be, it could be a good idea to chat with somebody else who is mastering the arcane arts, somebody with competent teachers. It could be that some of the techniques she is learning would transfer, and it never hurts to have friends in high places.
A week ago, you might have had this thought and let it languish, but this is a new you, a You that gets things done! You grab a quill and inkpot, a short length of scroll and a parchment envelope, and write Elana a letter. Nothing too forward, familiar without being intimate, inquisitive, how-do-you-do. Your words certainly sound more mature than the last thing you said to her, anyway- maybe it's enough. With some small measure of chagrin, you realize that midday is a very poor time to mail a letter- everyone who would be heading that direction is already gone, and you don't have the means to pay somebody to deliver it. Not to worry- you can mail it on the morrow.
Inquire about any old books that might detail the processes of old, forgotten magic. Phrase it like you're interested in it as an intellectual excersize. We can probably learn more from books than we ever could from the elders, especially since they might kill you if they discover your secret.
If we can't find any books or other educational tools, we should set to work trying to make the zombies that we raise do our bidding, rather than just wander around aimlessly and kill anything that moves. Perhaps if we kill a crayfish but keep its brain intact, then immediately raise it?
Obviously we go south. Any self-respecting necromancer has an evil cave of doom.
EDIT: Is there any way to store mana in objects for future use? Say, if we want to try and raise something bigger.
You know that Mages can store Mana in potion form, to replenish their Mana at a later date, though you do not know the method used to make such Potions. You also know that there exist magical items that enhance your magical power and available mana pool, although to your knowledge these items are much rarer. Ari Wetdawn (or any given Mage, really) can give you more information than that on both subjects, if you wish to ask him
With an afternoon to kill, no nearby Sage and a preoccupied Mage you decide to follow up on yesterday's resolution to find a private place to practice your arts. You decide to head south, towards the cliffs that line the Vale. After a few hours walk through the woods, you find yourself facing those cliffs. The trees grow right up to the cliff-face; the cliff itself is rough enough that some hardy trees have taken root in the side. The entire face is rather craggy, riddled with gullies and depressions.
For no particular reason, you decide to follow the cliff-face East, looking for someplace that can easily be made private. You pass several shallow caves, more overhangs than any place to hide from prying eyes. After about an hours walk, you find just the thing- a nice deep cave, the entrance screened by a veil of vines, not easily visible to passersby!
Unfortunately, you also find a bear.
Fortunately, you know this bear- every elf knows Apasi Adoredbear, an aging black bear often seen out and about the Vale. Like most animals of the wood, Apasi does not fear the presence of Elves, and will even tolerate them in near proximity. You doubt, however, that Apasi will easily suffer the presence of an elf in his very den. He is sleeping right now- what will you do?
[And wow, it took me until dialogue occurred to realize I never asked You what your name is? You can vote gender as well, I suppose- don't know what it'll affect, but why the hell not. The current day is heading towards evening- depending how you resolve the bear situation I may jump right in on the following day, so feel free to suggest some short-term plans]
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Post by: EveryZig on November 23, 2011, 12:40:27 am
(Can elves communicate with animals or are the animals just non-hostile to them?)
Post by: hachnslay on November 23, 2011, 07:32:46 am
for now train you known spells by waking the bear and casting calm animal on him repeatedly if needed.
Then search his cave.
EDIT: Also vote Female.
Post by: Dwarmin on November 23, 2011, 07:41:03 am
Also, assuming the bear doesn't eat us, send the letter to Elana Foundwasps. Aside from the knowledge we glean, we need to try to hold onto our Humanity (Elfanity?), even in a small way, IMO. I don't about you guys, but I'm going to be trying to make our character sort of an anti-hero, instead of a straight up monster.
As for the bear, if its killed the cats sort of out of the bag, if we could even do it. Leave it alone for now...it's already asleep, so why bother it? I'd imagine Calm Animal only works so much, anyway.
Post by: woose1 on November 23, 2011, 03:00:12 pm
Leave the bear alone.
I'll vote male, by the way. Just because.
EDIT: As for a name, how about Nym Moriquendi? +1 internets to anyone who gets the reference. : D
Post by: malkomk on November 23, 2011, 05:39:11 pm
I was sort of hoping we could be the nameless Necromancer. Part of doing what we are going to be doing is forgetting your old self...as for Gender, I'm going to vote Female, but that shouldn't really come up much-since I think Elven culture is fairly androgynous.
Also, assuming the bear doesn't eat us, send the letter to Elana Foundwasps. Aside from the knowledge we glean, we need to try to hold onto our Humanity (Elfanity?), even in a small way, IMO. I don't about you guys, but I'm going to be trying to make our character sort of an anti-hero, instead of a straight up monster.
As for the bear, if its killed the cats sort of out of the bag, if we could even do it. Leave it alone for now...it's already asleep, so why bother it? I'd imagine Calm Animal only works so much, anyway.
I support your choice.
Post by: Ehndras on November 23, 2011, 06:05:06 pm
Post by: Hubris Incalculable on November 23, 2011, 06:06:04 pm
Post by: woose1 on November 23, 2011, 06:17:24 pm
Woose: I know that Moriquendi is Quenya (Tolkien's high-elven) for "Dark elves", but i don't know about the 'Nym' part.You got it. The 'Nym' is just a generic elf name. OR IS IT!? (dun dun dun)
I say we go for female, simply for the childbirth ideas.I hope that it doesn't get too squick-y. Any sort of evil ritual of raising the dead combined with children, or pregnancies can get ugly pretty quick.
Post by: Hitty40 on November 23, 2011, 06:36:07 pm
Post by: monk12 on November 23, 2011, 07:24:28 pm
Elves get on fairly well with wildlife even without other considerations, because Elves tend to be pretty free with the Life Magic- rather like the parable about the boy pulling the thorn from the Lion's paw, but on a racial scale. That said, they're still wild animals and not likely to be keen on you messing around in their dens. The Calm Animal spell makes animals not hostile and lasts for a good day. Elves cannot innately communicate with animals, but there are Life spells that would allow them to do so, in limited fashion- most animals aren't much on the whole "language" thing. For that reason, chatting with the wildlife isn't exactly an idle pursuit.
Anywho, amend suggestions as you see fit- I may or may not update tonight, and I almost certainly won't update tomorrow (happy turkey day fellow Americans, happy Thursday everyone else!)
I was sort of hoping we could be the nameless Necromancer. Part of doing what we are going to be doing is forgetting your old self...as for Gender, I'm going to vote Female, but that shouldn't really come up much-since I think Elven culture is fairly androgynous.
Androgynous Elven wizards, you say? (http://oots.wikia.com/wiki/Vaarsuvius#Gender)
Post by: EveryZig on November 24, 2011, 03:50:35 pm
Post by: lurtze1 on November 25, 2011, 05:43:33 am
Post by: ThePyro on November 25, 2011, 07:30:37 am
Vote for Female, and we should leave the bear alone and find some cave to do stuff... Yeah stuff.
/Agree, but we should go south another hour or so's walk. Find somewhere off the main paths, lowland and and out of sight (Not a cave, every single cave in DF has something that wants to eat you. We're a nancy wannabe necromancer Elf, not a Legendary+5 Hammerdwarf :L)
Post by: monk12 on November 25, 2011, 11:34:34 pm
Spoiler: Author's Note (click to show/hide)
Quote from: Everyone not named Hachnslay
Leave the bear alone
After thinking it over, you decide against cohabiting with the old bear- although assuredly private, the bear might tolerate Necromancy even less than the Elves, and you have no desire to agitate a kind old spirit like Apasi.
Vote for Female, and we should leave the bear alone and find some cave to do stuff... Yeah stuff.
/Agree, but we should go south another hour or so's walk. Find somewhere off the main paths, lowland and and out of sight (Not a cave, every single cave in DF has something that wants to eat you. We're a nancy wannabe necromancer Elf, not a Legendary+5 Hammerdwarf :L)
So lets go find an unoccupied cave to expend some mana in.
You eye the cliff-face consideringly; on the one hand, if you were to leave the Vale proper there would be very little chance of a passing elf stumbling upon you, even without a particularly private place. On the other hand, you know the Rangers regularly patrol atop the cliff, so you'd have to get far enough away to avoid them- a safe distance would be less of an afternoon jaunt and more of a day trip, with all the benefits and risks that entails. It is getting late now, so you decide to put off that decision- after all, there may be another suitable cave nearby!
You spend another hour or so exploring easterly, but you don't find any other suitable place. Somewhat dejected, you return home, arriving shortly after nightfall. You eat a quick meal before heading to bed.
ask the sage what other kinds of magic there are as soon as you get back.
Also, assuming the bear doesn't eat us, send the letter to Elana Foundwasps. Aside from the knowledge we glean, we need to try to hold onto our Humanity (Elfanity?), even in a small way, IMO. I don't about you guys, but I'm going to be trying to make our character sort of an anti-hero, instead of a straight up monster.
Seconded and maybe if we take the job as an librarian we can earn some money on the side <.< >.>asking around about the history of Thrimesdur. Pevo, your mother, Elana, whoever might know about history. Take good notes and occasionally hint at wanting to go see the world and study abroad. You can work out the rest laster.Ignore my suggestion. This is better.
I played to much adom....
After a light repast the following morning, you head out into the street. With little difficulty, you find an elf preparing to commute to Elana's village, and convince him to carry your letter for you. Assuming she writes back, it'll probably arrive in the next day or so.
That chore taken care of, you head back to the Temple. You recognize the distinctive silhouette of Pevo Zephyrtempest approaching the Temple- he suffered a bad injury many years ago, and now walks only with the aid of his cane. The cane is something of a novelty among the elves- you've never heard of an injury the Life Mage's couldn't heal, even that time the Ranger's arm was mangled days away from the Vale. As you approach, Pevo greets you warmly.
Hello, young one! Ari told me you were looking for me!
Indeed, Pevo- I've been wanting to learn more about the things beyond the Vale, and a knowledge of history seemed like a good place to start.
A scholar in the making, eh? Very well, what would you like me to tell you about?
Well, for a start, how about Thrimesdur? I don't know much about them, other than their close friendship with the Elves.
Hah! If I wanted to fill your head with all my considerable knowledge about the people of The Cremated Empire, we'd be standing here for quite some time! Well, you can't properly begin discussing who people are without discussing where they come from- come with me.
With that, Pevo climbs the rope reed ladder into the temple with surprising agility. You hasten to follow, up ladders, through small shrines and storage rooms, and across bridges until you come to a small room nestled in the higher branches- Pevo's study. As Pevo hangs up his cloak, you examine your surroundings. Pevo's study is crammed with odd devices that are strange to you (and judging by the tacked-on notes, strange to Pevo as well!) Assorted knick-knacks, empty glass bottles, and piles upon piles of paper, parchment, vellum, scrolls and tablets fill every surface. But your eye is immediately drawn to a massive map that occupies the entire South wall of the study.
(http://i.imgur.com/VayPD.png)
Is that... Urak?
Hah! That, young one, is but a fraction of Urak's totality- it is all we know of with any certainty, though we have much speculation and rumor about further lands. It is certainly enough to be getting on with, at any rate. Here- those red marks are the major cities of the Jeweled Coast. As you can see, the Walled Jungles run right up to the coast. That yellow mark is Yicelafo. Thrimesdur's borders run from the Great River clear to the Black Swamps, home of the Golgothans
That little thing is the Great River? That other river is nearly twice as long!
Oh, and size matters so much, does it? The Great River is so named not because of its size, but because of its inhabitants- the principal cities of Thrimesdur lie on its banks.
It looks as though most of Thrimesdur is empty, by this map.
Empty of anything of political significance, certainly. Much of the Cremated Empire is wilderness, true, but much of that "empty space" is farmland and small villages, castles and caravan towns. The Emperor is able to control such remote marches through his strict adherence to the ways of Order.
Order is one of the magical faiths, isn't it? How many are there?
It is, it is- Order is one of what are called the Derived Magics. Chaos is another, practiced by many of the monstrous races as well as the Horse-Lords of the north. Life is another of the Derived Magics. Water is one of the Elemental Magics, and is common along the Jeweled Coast. Water's opposite is Fire- the Fire Giants once lived in the mountains north of Thrimesdur, but they were betrayed by the Golgothans and exterminated. Some few dwarves still keep that faith alive, but most follow the ways of Earth. Air is opposed to Earth, and is practiced by some of the Horse-Lords, as well as the mountain-dwelling Pixies and the odd Frost Giant. There used to be quite the number of Elves who knew the art of Air-magic, but they all perished in the Golgothan War. None have ever risen amongst our people again.
The Golgothans... Life's opposite.
Yes, the Golgothans were worshipers of Death- whereas the Mages of Life have the power to enhance the Vitality, the Life-Force of living things, the Necromancers had the power to take that Vitality and give it to the Dead.
That area between Thrimesdur and the Dwarven Lands- what is that?
...that place was once the Sacred Grove, home to all Elvenkind. It is a wasteland now, unfit for the living- the Necromancers saw to that. Many Elves died in the defense of their homeland there, died in vain, and the Necromancers were able to use that fact to devastating effect. We'd have gone the way of the Fire Giants if it were not for the intercession of Thrimesdur. Thrimesdur's sons died protecting the flight of the Elven refugees, women and children sent away should the worst come to pass, as it did. A remnant of a remnant, ushered through strange human lands to this new forest, this new home.
That is why our alliance with the Cremated Empire is so strong, isn't it?
Yes. Ah, when I think of how much was lost in the Golgothan War... our history, our culture, our knowledge. Our magic, too- nearly all the Mages died defending the Sacred Groves, and the knowledge of their spells died with them. It is said we could do so much more then than we can now- regenerate lost limbs, cure any disease, even resurrect the dead.
Wait, resurrect the dead? Isn't that Necromancy?
Well, no, but I'll admit I'm not clear on the particulars there. I suspect it's rather a matter of technique- Ari Wetdawns would know more. But I suppose I've talked your ear off enough- I have a class to teach! Feel free to come back and chat any time.
I certainly will- thank you for your time, Pevo Zephyrtempest.
I say Cutrib Briskt leaves the bear alone so he can mingle with some of the villagers, maybe learn something.
As you take your leave of Pevo, you absently note that it is nearing noon- you're a bit preoccupied with Pevo's words to care overmuch. Although there is a great deal to compete for your attention, for some reason one phrase keeps niggling at the back of your mind- You can't properly begin discussing who people are without discussing where they come from. Who are you, and where do you come from? You're an Elf, but what exactly is an Elf? What makes your people so different from all those peoples on Pevo's map?
Chuckling to yourself, you decide to take Pevo at his word- you'll find out by learning about where they come from, both the history of your people and the way they live every day! Since Pevo is otherwise occupied, you decide to do some odd chores around the village- it is the type of thing you've done countless times in the past, but never before have you really paid attention the way you are now.
You chop some firewood for Caraca Overbud, laughing as her children chase each other about the tree. You help Salore Brimsdusk repair the roof of his house, admiring the aesthetic sensitivity he imparts to an otherwise trivial task. You chuckle as Mawada Drinkgrowths squabbles with his neighbor Temiyi Oarblazes over some percieved slight or another, and laugh when the latter steals a fresh-baked pie from under his nose. You help haul some furniture for Iru Squeezedskirt, watching with no small measure of amusement as he courts the attentions of Iki Canyonbites- he's been pursuing her for years, and while she hasn't said yes to him yet, she hasn't said no, either.
There is nothing new in the Vale, nothing the historians would write about. There is just the gentle rhythm of life, to and fro, ebb and flow, anger flowing into laughter and back again with never a moment of malice or hate. The past is not the focus of the Elves, nor the is the future- the here and now is what matters to them.
But then, you aren't like them, are you? You are a Necromancer.
As the sun sets, you return to your home. You received both lunch and supper for your toils, as well as a bit of money. Tired, but content, you go to sleep, and begin to dream...
It is dark, and cramped, and cold. So cold... you feel frozen. You can't move. You feel a terrible need to be warm, and no sooner do you have the thought than you feel heat growing within you. It is trapped, you can feel it, you are incomplete. You force your will on your body, and suddenly the heat leaps out, bridging the incompleteness, making you whole.
The heat flows out, suffusing your limbs- too many limbs. Where it meets discontinuities, holes, fuzziness, it flows around, replacing what is missing. Your legs twitch- your claws clench. Purple phosphorescence erupts from your eyes, and you can see! You are surrounded by horrible lobster-like creatures, staring at you with their dead eyes, burying you beneath their bodies!
You try to flee, but can't! THEY ARE TOO HEAVY! THEY ARE HOLDING YOU DOWN AND YOU CAN'T GET OUT!
With a violent start, you awake in a cold sweat, the sound of rain drumming on the roof. Your head feels light as air, your mind tenuously tethered to your body. Nauseated, you look at your nightstand. At the pouch you left there, illuminated by an inner purple glow.
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Post by: Hubris Incalculable on November 25, 2011, 11:48:25 pm
Post by: Ehndras on November 26, 2011, 01:54:31 am
Post by: EveryZig on November 26, 2011, 02:41:00 am
Hmm, I am beginning to have an idea for a long term goal. We should find out whether control of an element lets the caster remove it as well as make it (such as a fire user extinguishing a flame). (With this one we should research it from books rather than asking somebody, as that would imply using life magic to produce death.)
Post by: Grek on November 26, 2011, 05:05:36 am
When we unconciously revived the crayfish, it seemed for a moment that we were the crayfish, or that we had taken over its body. It is clear that out spirit had entered the body of the crayfish, banished the chill of death through our power, and then took control of the revived body briefly. It follows, then, that if we were to remove the crayfish from the pouch, set it upon the floor and attempt to enter the crayfish's body, we would be able to directly control the former corpse. If successful, we should walk about briefly and see how well we can adapt ourselves to a temporary stay in the body of another.
Once that's done, destroy the body, of course. There cannot be any evidence of our power, at least not yet.
On a somewhat related note, it would do us good to quell the dark thoughts we've been having. We're not so different from other elfs and we're certainly not evil. Admittedly, what we're doing is illegal, but it's not evil. The things we've revived haven't harmed anyone, nor have they shown any hint of aggression. Indeed, what we do now seems closer to the Life magics of old, regenerating missing parts of the body, reversing decay and ressurecting the dead. We may be a Necromancer, but before that, we're an Elf. Not a freak, not an abomination, just an elf with an unusual power.
Post by: lurtze1 on November 26, 2011, 07:12:34 am
Post by: Hitty40 on November 26, 2011, 09:22:31 am
Firstly, I'd like to note that we were hungry when you came up with "Cutrib Brisket" and recomend that we refrain from calling ourselves something so ridiculous.
Hey, I couldn't think of anything else, but ok, how about Viktor Beauchemin?
Post by: BunnyBob77 on November 26, 2011, 11:53:13 am
Post by: lurtze1 on November 26, 2011, 12:54:10 pm
Espacially if the stuff gets annoyed
Post by: EveryZig on November 26, 2011, 01:35:23 pm
Post by: monk12 on November 26, 2011, 10:50:14 pm
Spoiler: Author's Note (click to show/hide)
We should destroy the crayfish immediately. Experimenting is good, but we are in the middle of town. Somebody might hear something or sense the aura of death magic. We can experiment later, as we have plenty of mana we need to expend.
Quote from: Grek (also lurtze1 and BunnyBob77)
When we unconciously revived the crayfish, it seemed for a moment that we were the crayfish, or that we had taken over its body. It is clear that out spirit had entered the body of the crayfish, banished the chill of death through our power, and then took control of the revived body briefly. It follows, then, that if we were to remove the crayfish from the pouch, set it upon the floor and attempt to enter the crayfish's body, we would be able to directly control the former corpse. If successful, we should walk about briefly and see how well we can adapt ourselves to a temporary stay in the body of another.
Once that's done, destroy the body, of course. There cannot be any evidence of our power, at least not yet.
Your first impulse is to destroy the crayfish, but you hesitate- the rain is loud, and by your reckoning it is still early morning. Few elves will be out and about at this hour, and this is an important opportunity to learn a thing or two about your powers. You decide to experiment, and see if you can control your unintentional creation.
Lighting a candle, you reach over to your nightstand and pick up your pouch, spilling the contents onto the floor. The contents are starting to get rather rank- if you don't use them today you'll need to throw them away or find some other place to store them. Your idle thoughts are banished as the undead crayfish immediately makes a beeline for the door- reaching down, you scoop it up and set it back in the center of the room, only for it to scurry to the door again. Snatching a tunic off the floor, you line the bottom of the door, sealing off the crack to the outside. The crayfish, after, briefly exploring this new barrier, scuttles along the edge of the wall, feeling for a crack to slip through. Grabbing your belt pouch, you recapture the crayfish and sit back to think on this new complication.
In your dream, you very much wanted to escape your prison. Could that impulse have persisted after you awoke? The pouch is flopping back and forth as the crayfish tries to find a way out. Clearing your mind, you try to mentally order the crayfish to be still. The flopping does not cease. "Stop that," you hiss, with no apparent effect. It's the same as at the pond.
Perhaps you're going about this wrong. You aren't trying to bend another thinking being to your will- in your dream, you were the crayfish. Once again, you clear your mind and focus your will- you remember how strange your extra limbs felt, the pulse of ichor within you, the rigidity of your carapace...
Command Undead.
You experience a moment of vertigo, before gaining a sort of double-vision. You can still quite clearly see the room about you, the pouch before you, but you are also conscious of another view- the inside of the pouch, illuminated by a purple glow. Be still, and the crayfish responds, ceasing its fruitless endeavor. Calmly, you empty the crayfish onto the ground, and it remains docile. From the crayfish's eyes, you seem enormous, the underside of your bed a dark cavern, the ceiling impossibly high. You do not feel as though you have as much a sense of the crayfish's body as in your dream, but you do have a general idea about the body's state of being.
With a bit of experimentation, you get the crayfish to tour your room, responding exactly to your mental commands. You discover the zombie isn't very good at climbing (as might be expected) and that it can take simple directions. You make a list of ten movements for it to execute, relay it to the zombie with the injunction to wait on a command from you, and then watch gleefully as it flawlessly dances your little routine. However, another experiment where you attempt to make the creature alter its path based on external stimuli (hitting it with a rolled-up sock, in this instance) seems to have no effect- perhaps your experiment is flawed, or perhaps zombies simply do not do well with conditional instructions.
With one final thought, you order the zombie to walk in circles, then break off the mental contact. The zombie obediently continues to circle on your floor- placing a shoe in its path causes it to move the center of its circle a bit to the left before continuing with its task.
Thoughtfully, you crush the zombie beneath your heel, observing as the phosphorescent fire dies in the creatures eyes. At least you've managed some control over your creations- privately, you'd begun to fear your creations would control you.
Quote from: Grek
On a somewhat related note, it would do us good to quell the dark thoughts we've been having. We're not so different from other elfs and we're certainly not evil. Admittedly, what we're doing is illegal, but it's not evil. The things we've revived haven't harmed anyone, nor have they shown any hint of aggression. Indeed, what we do now seems closer to the Life magics of old, regenerating missing parts of the body, reversing decay and ressurecting the dead. We may be a Necromancer, but before that, we're an Elf. Not a freak, not an abomination, just an elf with an unusual power.
As you settle down to a wholesome breakfast, you feel decidedly upbeat about your success, shaking off the melancholy of the day before. So what, if you're a little different? Most elves are impulsive to a fault, but the Rangers are quite disciplined. Most elves care only for the present, but the Sages gain wisdom and perspective from study of the past. Most elves have mercurial moods, but the Mages need self-control and calm to work their spells. Their differences are their strength, and perhaps it is so with you as well!
Buoyed by that happy thought, you are startled by a knock on the door. Apprehensively, you rise to answer it, thinking perhaps someone had come to ask about a strange purple glow in your window this morning. When you open the door, however, you see before you a soggy fisherelf, holding an empty net that will be doubtlessly bulging when he returns home. With a sardonic flourish, he produces a letter- a reply from Elana Foundwasps!
Thanking him profusely, you offer him a warm meal and a fireside seat, but he begs your leave and heads upstream. Closing the door, you retreat to your room, opening the letter. Hello-how-are-you-I-am-fine, cordial phrases with little added emotion. Her quill positively glows with enthusiasm for her training, however- she is nearing the end of her novitiate, and is preparing to choose a discipline within the Life Magics for further study. You detect a wistful note as she mentions how little opportunity she has had to socialize- in part due to time constraints on her part, in part due to lack of a close peer group among the Mages. She makes no mention of your history- perhaps a desire to start fresh? If nothing else, she certainly sounds happy enough to have someone to chat with, as evidenced by her prompt reply. Maybe starting fresh is a good thing- this is the start of a new You, after all, and maybe new You won't make the mistakes old You did.
By your reckoning, it is midmorning- should you reply immediately to Elana? What should you say? And what will you do with the remainder of your day- the rain doesn't look like it is letting up any time soon, so perhaps indoor activities are in order. Then again, few elves will be out and about the forest today- this could be an excellent opportunity to scout out a new place to practice your arts. What to do, what to do...
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Post by: EveryZig on November 26, 2011, 11:07:00 pm
Post by: woose1 on November 26, 2011, 11:24:29 pm
Also, as an experiment: attempt to use our life-manipulation abilities to transfer the 'life force' we find in the corpses back into us, to fuel raising the dead. That way, we might further reduce the cost of making our zombies.
Post by: EveryZig on November 27, 2011, 12:24:04 am
No, we want to have more control before we move on to creating things we cannot easily destroy.
>Make an army
For what purpose? We don't have anyone we want to kill, and militarization would be counterproductive in terms of our life expectancy, because it would make us much easier to detect.
>Talk to the council
That isn't how things work around here. If we reveal ourselves to the council (or most other people), they will try their hardest to kill us, as every famous necromancer since forever has been evil.
If we ever want to reveal ourselves, we will need to first do something major and undeniably good with our power, and even then some people will likely have it in for us.
And that brings me to my long term plan.
I think we should restore the lands of the Sacred Grove.
The sage said the necromancers did something with their magic to ruin the lands when they drove our the elves. Life magic could not overcome whatever the necromancers did the the land, but with enough mastery over death magic we might wrest control over their curse and any undead there, to turn its power upon itself and destroy it.
Post by: woose1 on November 27, 2011, 12:26:57 am
Alternatively:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Ehndras on November 27, 2011, 12:56:25 am
I rather like the idea of counteracting the Taint, though.
Ask more about the elves history and learn about the tainted lands destroyed by the necromancers
Post by: Grek on November 27, 2011, 02:40:59 am
Instead, we're going out into the woods and doing some basic tests. Admittedly, most of these are unlikely to work, and they're not listed in any specific order, but they're things we'd kick ourselves for not trying sooner if they do turn out to work:
-Try that thing woose1 suggested. I kinda doubt that necromancy works like that, but if we find out later that it does, we'll kick ourselves for not having tried it sooner.
-So far, everything we've reanimated has had purple fire start glowing in its eyes. What happens if we revive something without eyes, like an earthworm?
-Attempt to revive a previously destroyed zombie. While I have the sneaking suspicion that any damage sufficent to destroy a zombie will also prove sufficent to prevent it from being revived once more, it's another one of those things we'd kick ourselves for not trying sooner if it works.
-Try reviving a dead plant. Preferably one that's largely intact but pretty obviously dead, like a weed you dug up out of the garden and left out to dry for a day or two.
Further, I have a short list of longer-term experiments that we should keep in mind if we can't think of anything else worth trying. Again, not in any specific order.
-This one's a bit morbid, but bear with me. Take two crayfish. Shell one, leaving the meat inside as intact as possible. Remove the flesh from the second while leaving the shell as intact as possible. Attempt to revive both and compare the results. Is vitality in flesh or in bone? In both? Neither? Regardless of what we find, it should prove instructive.
-If you ever have enough spare mana, see if you can control multiple dead crayfish at once, and if there's an upper limit on how many perspectives you can hold at once. Stop if you get a headache, feel dizzy or anything else seems strange.
-See what the maximum range is for controling one of your zombies, and if it expands with practice. May take more than a day of effort, but it'll be good exercise.
-Try to find out if zombies have a memory, if they can be made to recognize specific objects. I recomend starting with a ball or something, and instructing a zombie to follow that specific ball wherever it goes. After testing it to make sure it works how we expect, substitute in another ball that has a different colour or a different size, and see if the zombie knows it isn't the right ball to follow. We can move to more abstract things from there, like having if understand things like "any ball" "any non-red ball" "the biggest ball" and stuff like that, or even to sort a pile of pebbles into stacks by colour.
Post by: lurtze1 on November 27, 2011, 03:33:55 am
we should also try the live draining thing on small insects. this way we can learn the rate of regeneration. because if we spend 2 mp to raise an ant, how much do we get it we drain the life out of the thing. oh and if we can use the life drain in that way, can we also use it to heal ourself?
I also agree with everything Grek said.
Of Topic: I say good job to monk12 for the fast updates.
Post by: Ehndras on November 27, 2011, 02:33:09 pm
Post by: monk12 on November 28, 2011, 07:46:18 pm
Spoiler: Author's Note (click to show/hide)
I want to find out more about the land where the Sacred Grove was. Did the Golgothans just burn everything, or did they actually curse the land?
Revealing ourselves is completely out of the question, we would undeniably be hunted down by any human and elf alive. Also, bigger creature means less control... Hell, they could even try to kill us. Also, if a random half-dead creature is found we'll be in DEEP shit.
I rather like the idea of counteracting the Taint, though.
Ask more about the elves history and learn about the tainted lands destroyed by the necromancers
You decide to delay writing a reply to Elana- nobody will be out and about today to deliver it anyway, except those who cannot avoid it, or the foolhardy. Fetching your cloak, you head out to the Temple, snatches of song drifting out of merrily wet windows as you pass. When you arrive, you hasten inside, out of the rain. Quietly passing through private rooms where elves sit in meditation and musty storerooms, you return to Pevo Zephyrtempest's study. The aging elf sits at his desk, sheaves of paper before him, and smiles up at you as you enter.
Well hello there, Nym. Nasty day out, isn't it?
Indeed it is, Pevo. I must admit, the foul weather inspires foul thoughts, and I've been thinking on what you said yesterday.
Oh? And what did I say yesterday?
You touched on the Sacred Groves, home of Elvenkind. How were they destroyed?
The Sacred Groves were brimming with Life, more than anywhere on Urak, cultivated and enhanced by the Life Mages. Balkoth and his Necromancers attacked to steal that Vitality, to fuel his armies. When resistance was eliminated, he scoured the earth, drawing every last drop of Life from the very soil itself. Nothing can grow in dead soil, you know.
But wouldn't the life return eventually?
Mayhap, but it is difficult to adequately describe the devastation Balkoth wrought. He burned every tree, sucked the vitality of the soil, killed and reanimated the creatures for his own fell purposes, and he did this over an enormous area. And I have reason to believe he did something to prevent regrowth there.
Why do you say that?
Because I've been there, dear girl. All sand and rock it is, out in the wilderness far from human habitation. Nearby villages say it is bad luck, or cursed, and it may well be so. I spent days searching, but was unable to find the center of the Groves before I was attacked by a great skeletal monstrosity. Everything we know about Necromancy says that the creature couldn't possibly date to the Golgothan War- undead simply do not last that long without being cared for.
Wouldn't someone have seen what was done there? Some survivor, or spy?
There were no Elven survivors. Every Elf who stood to defend their homes instead of fleeing perished- we do not even know how effective their resistance was. Our ancestors spent the next year of the war seeking sanctuary in Thrimesdur, until we were ushered to Yicelafo. The next few years we heard no word from outside the Vale, as we focused on building a new home and hiding from outsiders, for it seemed to our ancestors that Balkoth must prevail, and pursue us sooner or later. We didn't even hear that the Dwarves had switched sides until years after the fact- the only Elf present at the Last Battle died on the battlefield.
There was an Elf in the Last Battle?
Yes, and a few in other major theaters of the war as well. Many who were adults when they fled the Sacred Grove couldn't bear to stand by, after learning how complete Balkoth's devastation had been. After settling the new generation into their new home, they took up arms and rejoined the fight. They were few, and their impact was small, but they were there.
Other theaters? I thought all the fighting occurred in Thrimesdur.
Oh my stars, no- although that was where the Last Battle took place, Balkoth and his generals were active across much of Urak. The Black Fleet nearly flanked Thrimesdur by sea, but were ultimately repulsed by the navies of the Jeweled Coast. Balkoth could have swarmed Thrimesdur under an army of zombies six feet deep had he not also needed to defend his rear against the Dwarves. And when the Horse-Lords joined the fray, Balkoth had to divert resources and allies to fighting them at home so they could not deploy on the plains of Thrimesdur in force.
I had no idea the Golgothan war was such an... inclusive affair.
Indeed- so far as we know it was the greatest war in the history of Urak. Its study is something of a hobby of mine, which is why I went out in the world so long ago.
Perhaps one day I'll make such an odyssey myself; See the sights, learn the history.
Perhaps you should- there is much that cannot be learned or experienced within the Vale. My time Outside was perhaps the most dangerous, and at times the least pleasant, but it was certainly the most rewarding. Ah, but I have a class of youngsters to teach- please excuse me.
Thank you for your time, Pevo Zephyrtempest.
Anything that reveals us as a necromancer at this point is a luridly bad idea. There is absolutely no way that it would be a good idea, so we're not going to do that. No raising an undead army, no telling the village elders and, this is an important one, no more necromancy in town.
Instead, we're going out into the woods and doing some basic tests. Admittedly, most of these are unlikely to work, and they're not listed in any specific order, but they're things we'd kick ourselves for not trying sooner if they do turn out to work:
-Try that thing woose1 suggested. I kinda doubt that necromancy works like that, but if we find out later that it does, we'll kick ourselves for not having tried it sooner.
-So far, everything we've reanimated has had purple fire start glowing in its eyes. What happens if we revive something without eyes, like an earthworm?
-Attempt to revive a previously destroyed zombie. While I have the sneaking suspicion that any damage sufficent to destroy a zombie will also prove sufficent to prevent it from being revived once more, it's another one of those things we'd kick ourselves for not trying sooner if it works.
-Try reviving a dead plant. Preferably one that's largely intact but pretty obviously dead, like a weed you dug up out of the garden and left out to dry for a day or two.
Further, I have a short list of longer-term experiments that we should keep in mind if we can't think of anything else worth trying. Again, not in any specific order.
-This one's a bit morbid, but bear with me. Take two crayfish. Shell one, leaving the meat inside as intact as possible. Remove the flesh from the second while leaving the shell as intact as possible. Attempt to revive both and compare the results. Is vitality in flesh or in bone? In both? Neither? Regardless of what we find, it should prove instructive.
-If you ever have enough spare mana, see if you can control multiple dead crayfish at once, and if there's an upper limit on how many perspectives you can hold at once. Stop if you get a headache, feel dizzy or anything else seems strange.
-See what the maximum range is for controling one of your zombies, and if it expands with practice. May take more than a day of effort, but it'll be good exercise.
-Try to find out if zombies have a memory, if they can be made to recognize specific objects. I recomend starting with a ball or something, and instructing a zombie to follow that specific ball wherever it goes. After testing it to make sure it works how we expect, substitute in another ball that has a different colour or a different size, and see if the zombie knows it isn't the right ball to follow. We can move to more abstract things from there, like having if understand things like "any ball" "any non-red ball" "the biggest ball" and stuff like that, or even to sort a pile of pebbles into stacks by colour.
Also, as an experiment: attempt to use our life-manipulation abilities to transfer the 'life force' we find in the corpses back into us, to fuel raising the dead. That way, we might further reduce the cost of making our zombies.
Do some testing and just try to gather knowledge, but remember knowledge is power guard it wel.
we should also try the live draining thing on small insects. this way we can learn the rate of regeneration. because if we spend 2 mp to raise an ant, how much do we get it we drain the life out of the thing. oh and if we can use the life drain in that way, can we also use it to heal ourself?
I also agree with everything Grek said.
Of Topic: I say good job to monk12 for the fast updates.
As you leave Pevo to his teachings, you walk back out into the soaking rain. By your best guess, it is a bit after noon- the morning's incident has reminded you that you need to gain more control of your Necromantic arts, and though you lack a truly safe haven for such experimentation you predict that a secluded glade in the woods will be safe enough, as all the elves who would normally be out and about will be staying safely at home today. To the forest!
After an hour or so of walking, you find a place where the trees grow thickly together, providing relief from the wind and the worst of the rain. Settling down on your heels, you drop a crayfish corpse on the wet leaves of the forest floor. You theorize that Necromancy, at its most basic, involves taking latent Vitality from a corpse and rekindling it, bringing the target back to some semblance of life. If true, then you should be able to draw that latent Vitality out of the corpse and into you, instead of leaving it in the body.
You focus your will on the crayfish- nothing. You try to empathize with the corpse- nothing. You try to invert the way Mana normally flows out of you, but all you accomplish is giving yourself a slight headache. Perhaps you're going about this the wrong way, or perhaps your theory is wrong.
Next on the agenda- eyeless earthworms! A bit of rooting is sufficient to discover a nice big one writhing in the mud, but much like the ant you are a bit concerned about how to kill it without simply rendering it into goo. After casting about a bit, you find a nice big puddle and proceed to drown the creature in it. It takes a while to drown, but it's an earthworm- they die hard. Returning to the relative dryness beneath the trees, you focus your will and Raise Zombie.
The earthworm begins, almost imperceptibly, to glow purple. It also tries to start burrowing, before you snatch it up for closer inspection. The glow appears to be emanating from tiny, nearly invisible bristles. On a hunch, you cast Sense Vitality- the zombie barely registers as containing any Vitality, although the trees around you have dozens of VP each. Bringing your will to bear, you try to draw that smidgeon of Vitality out of the worm and into you, forming a connection between you an-
Steal Vitality
A purple spark flies from the worm to you, blinding you with its brilliance before it strikes you in the face! With a startled yelp, you fall backwards, clutching at your head. Tentatively, you probe with your fingers- no damage appears to have been done. You walk over to the puddle- no marks on your face, no blemishes. You examine the worm in your hand, discovering that it is no longer a zombie, although it does not appear to have suffered any physical damage.
Calming yourself, you think back to the moment the spark hit you. You think, perhaps, you felt something, but if the worm had held a smidgen then what was stolen was a mere smidgen of a smidgen. You are reasonably sure that, given a target with more Vitality, you would get more noticeable results.
You judge that although night is approaching, you have time for one more experiment. Returning to the crayfish, you cast Raise Zombie, watching as purple fire erupts from its eyes and it begins to shamble about. You then place your foot on the zombie and begin to slowly press down, listening to the creature's carapace snap and pop. As soon as the purple fire dies, you quickly remove your foot before lifting the creature for inspection.
The crayfish's body is broken- the shell is shattered in a few places, and most of its limbs are twisted at an unnatural angle, one of its legs gone entirely. Bits of crayfish innards ooze through the cracks in the shell. Gently setting it back on the forest floor, you Raise Zombie once more. It takes noticeably more energy, but once again the crayfish rises. You bend down, looking- purple fire blazes from the cracks in the shell, and the broken legs are straight. The missing leg is still gone, however.
Out of mana and out of time, you crush the crayfish once more before setting off for home. You arrive in a drizzle sometime after sunset- exhausted by your day's effort, you decide to skip dinner and go straight to bed. You sleep long and peacefully, with no interruptions. The next morning, the sullen sky promises more rain to come, but right now it is dry.
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Post by: woose1 on November 28, 2011, 08:29:42 pm
(In this case, a tree.)
Then, we weaponize the life force. Try focusing it in a beam and shooting it at something. Chances are, the energy stored in a large organism like a tree can cause a decently-sized explosion.
Then I guess we can try raising it. I don't think a zombie tree would be very interesting though. We'd better also make sure to do it somewhere WAAAYY out of range of the elf village. We don't want no goddamn tree-hugging hippies finding out we're preforming horrible unnatural experiments on the local flora.
Also, based on what the old guy said, we can apparently raise just skeletons, without any flesh on them. It probably costs a lot more than raising a fleshy minion, but they last much longer. (This is just pure speculation.)
EDIT: By the way, and this is just a totally innocent question with no bearing whatsoever: Does the village have a graveyard anywhere? >: D
EDITEDIT: Oh, one more thing: Ask the elders if there is any way to store mana in an object for later use, or increase the amount of mana at your disposal. Preferably the topic should stay far away from necromancy.
Post by: monk12 on November 28, 2011, 08:49:30 pm
EDIT: By the way, and this is just a totally innocent question with no bearing whatsoever: Does the village have a graveyard anywhere? >: D
Regrettably, for reasons both symbolic and practical, the Elves practice cremation, and deaths are few and far between what with the immortality and plentiful Life mages. You are rather unlikely to come across a humanoid corpse unless you make one yourself- until/unless you leave the Vale, anywho.
Post by: woose1 on November 28, 2011, 08:51:46 pm
Close enough. Let's write down another planned experiment as: Attempt to raise a pile of ashes from a cremated corpse.EDIT: By the way, and this is just a totally innocent question with no bearing whatsoever: Does the village have a graveyard anywhere? >: DRegrettably, for reasons both symbolic and practical, the Elves practice cremation, and deaths are few and far between what with the immortality and plentiful Life mages. You are rather unlikely to come across a humanoid corpse unless you make one yourself- until/unless you leave the Vale, anywho.
Post by: kopout on November 28, 2011, 09:27:28 pm
Close enough. Let's write down another planned experiment as: Attempt to raise a pile of ashes from a cremated corpse.Not from an Elf though. Maybe burn a crayfish. I would phrase it more generally See how much damage a dead body can sustain before it is unraisable. Also Continue looking for a lair and Write back to Elana today if we have time, tomorrow if we don't
Post by: EveryZig on November 28, 2011, 09:29:16 pm
Still, we should probably seek a more secure location today than before, as the whether is less rainy today.
An experiment we should try: make a zombie insect that will stand still, then see if we can take its vitality when it is behind a rock (out of our line of sight).
Post by: woose1 on November 28, 2011, 09:41:25 pm
Post by: monk12 on November 28, 2011, 09:46:23 pm
Are we normally more productive than this? (Not counting necromancy related activities.) It might seem odd if we suddenly stop doing all the tasks we usually do.
Elven society is pretty idyllic- most Elves hunt/gather for a living, which is really easy to do what with the Life Mages causing plants to prosper and animals to be fruitful and multiply. Since bare sustenance isn't a big concern, Elves feel free to pursue whatever interests them, and only work for luxury items or as a favor to friends.
You, specifically, used to pull your weight by fishing to replace what you took from your parents house and doing odd jobs around town to raise the cash to buy creature comforts, like pants. Since fishing is a largely solitary endeavor (for you, anyway) most people probably don't realize your routine is that much different. Those who do probably assume you've found another fishing hole, though they may comment on it if they don't see you for long enough.
Short version, I'll give you warning if you're being too much of an Elven slacker :P
Post by: Grek on November 29, 2011, 04:30:04 am
Write back to Elana today if we have time, tomorrow if we don't.
Specifically, ask her about the different disciplines within the Life Magics, and which one she thinks she'll choose. It's an interesting topic for us, and Elana seems to like talking about her studies.
Post by: kopout on November 29, 2011, 11:03:18 am
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Post by: lurtze1 on November 29, 2011, 12:37:31 pm
Some proposed changes to planned experimentsSpoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
We could still do the experiment, because a earthworm naturally is a being of flesh, bit would it work if we took something of flesh and bonesn and only use one of the things.
Oh and we should still find a cave or something
Post by: Grek on November 29, 2011, 01:31:23 pm
I'd like to second the rest of kopout's suggestion, though and add the following to it:
-Raise an earthworm and then, once it is raised, cut it in half at the border between two segments. Which ends, if any, are still animate? Continue cutting into halves at segment lines until all parts are dead or it has been divided into a prostomium, peristomium, pygidium and a pile of ordinary segments.
Post by: monk12 on November 30, 2011, 01:16:47 am
Write back to Elana today if we have time, tomorrow if we don't.
Specifically, ask her about the different disciplines within the Life Magics, and which one she thinks she'll choose. It's an interesting topic for us, and Elana seems to like talking about her studies.
After enjoying a hearty breakfast, You decide to rip off a reply to Elana Foundwasps. After mentioning how you've been taking more interest in the gathering of knowledge, you go on to question her more about her studies. You hadn't realized Life Magic has more than one discipline within the school- you'd been under the impression that it was just "happy make stuff grow" magic. Then again, it turns out Necromancy is a bit more involved than "raise dead, fuck bitches" so you suppose you shouldn't be that surprised. Not that you mention the Necromancy bit, of course. Satisfied with your letter, you head outside just in time to catch a hunter heading her way- he readily agrees to carry your letter.
EDITEDIT: Oh, one more thing: Ask the elders if there is any way to store mana in an object for later use, or increase the amount of mana at your disposal. Preferably the topic should stay far away from necromancy.
By happy coincidence, you spy Ari Wetdawn walking your way! You hail him as he approaches.
Ho, Ari! What brings you out of the Temple on such a gray morning?
Hello, Nym. I'm just out to tend to a sick tree I came across the other day- a bit of Rootworm, nothing serious. I would also like to bestow a blessing on some of the deer while it's dry, if I get the chance.
How do you have the Mana to do all of these things?
Pfft. These chores will hardly overtax my abilities- I always carry a Mana Potion with me, though, in case of emergencies. It wouldn't do to find that Rootworm was a symptom of a much worse problem that needed more magic than I had at my disposal!
A Mana Potion? I don't know of any Elf who can make those.
It isn't that difficult- anyone can learn the necessary spell. Mages tend to make them for themselves, though, since demand is low and their greater Mana reserves allow them to make more potent potables. The tricky part is getting the Crystal for the task.
Crystal?
You know, magical crystal. It is the only substance we know of that can reliably store and release Mana, and is an extremely versatile material with applications in almost all alchemical processes as well as many other branches of spellcraft. We don't have a natural supply of it, instead importing it from Thrimesdur and the Jeweled Coast.
So Mana Potions make you more powerful, then.
Well, yes and no. Mana Potions replenish your Mana reserves, they don't expand them. A Mana Potion wouldn't do a random peasant any good.
What if you had a problem that you didn't have the man reserve to face?
A problem I don't have the power to resolve, indeed. In your hypothetical situation, I suppose I would call on my fellow Mages to help me solve it- very few things on Urak can face our unified might.
What if you couldn't get help from your colleagues? What if you had to do it yourself, for some reason?
"What if, what if!" IF I faced a problem I couldn't handle alone, and IF I couldn't call in outside help, then my only recourse would be to somehow obtain an Artifact of Power that could help.
An Artifact of Power?
Yes. Before the Golgothan War, it is said the great Magic-Users of Urak knew the making of Artifacts, items that could enhance the abilities of their wielder. Swords that flamed, shields that healed, boots that let the wearer fly, that sort of thing. Some of them help enhance the magical power of Mages, either through increasing their Mana reserve or allowing them to cast spells normally beyond their ability. In your extremely unlikely situation, I might be able to gain permission to use of one of the few such items our people possess- I'd have to talk to the Druid though, so I doubt that would help much.
I see. Well, I won't hold you here any longer- good luck with your tree!
Some proposed changes to planned experimentsSpoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
We could still do the experiment, because a earthworm naturally is a being of flesh, bit would it work if we took something of flesh and bonesn and only use one of the things.
Oh and we should still find a cave or something
Are we normally more productive than this? (Not counting necromancy related activities.) It might seem odd if we suddenly stop doing all the tasks we usually do.
Still, we should probably seek a more secure location today than before, as the whether is less rainy today.
An experiment we should try: make a zombie insect that will stand still, then see if we can take its vitality when it is behind a rock (out of our line of sight).
Continue looking for a lair
With most of your day ahead of you, you decide to find a nice private place you can practice magic with little fear of discovery. Last time, you went South, so this time you decide to go North. This path takes you deeper into the forest, away from the Great River and Elven habitation.
After an hour or so of walking, you enter the oldest parts of the Vale. The trees here are enormous, with thick, gnarled roots clawing out of the ground. The branches overhead choke out the light of day, starving the vegetation beneath the canopy. You walk through a forlorn, emerald light, across a carpet of soggy leaves and broken twigs. It is very quiet here, very serene. Feeling you have come a safe distance from Elven habitation, you step off the game trail, searching among the roots and tree trunks for a suitable place to call your own.
After perhaps another hour or so of searching, you find it! In the center of a dense stand of trees, you find a great old oak, struck by lightning years past. The dead tree is partially fallen, held up by the branches of its neighbors- the trunk is shattered, and large branches yet lie scattered about. There is a sheltered space between the angled trunk and the ground, partially screened from the outside world by branches torn down in the old tree's falling.
Picking your way inside, you grin in satisfaction. A large pile of leaves and twigs shows where animals sheltered in days gone past, but it is clear the hollow is unoccupied now. The roots of an adjacent tree provide comfortable seating, and the soft earth beneath them would be an excellent place to store food, equipment, and any experiments you choose.
Fuck. Yeah. Let's go steal the vitality of some bitches.
(In this case, a tree.)
Then, we weaponize the life force. Try focusing it in a beam and shooting it at something. Chances are, the energy stored in a large organism like a tree can cause a decently-sized explosion.
Then I guess we can try raising it. I don't think a zombie tree would be very interesting though. We'd better also make sure to do it somewhere WAAAYY out of range of the elf village. We don't want no goddamn tree-hugging hippies finding out we're preforming horrible unnatural experiments on the local flora.
Also, based on what the old guy said, we can apparently raise just skeletons, without any flesh on them. It probably costs a lot more than raising a fleshy minion, but they last much longer. (This is just pure speculation.)
After tidying up your new getaway, you decide to celebrate with some experimentation!
First up, you decide to give your vitality stealing powers a swing. After a moment's consideration, you decide against zapping any of the trees holding up your abode, instead moving to the other end of your hollow to zap one of the trees there. Placing your hand on the tree trunk, you Steal Vitality.
You feel your magical energy pierce the tree, and siphon some of its Vitality. You can almost hear the tree groan as your magic attacks its life-force directly, but soon your eyes detect a glowing purple ball of energy emerge from the bark, floating before you. It begins to float towards you as though drawn by a swift current, but focusing your will you hold the Vitality away from you- you don't need it yourself, after all. Instead, you decide to try and use this energy to destroy something! You set your sights on a nearby rock, forced mostly out of the ground by growing roots and about as large as your head. You throw the Vitality at it, forcing the energy into it! You feel great resistance, but your will prevails, and-
Animate Object
You blink in disbelief as the rock suddenly draws the Vitality into itself! You take a step forward, but are suddenly swept by a feeling of intense vertigo! The vertigo passes, but you feel something swell within yourself, as if long-tensed muscles had finally been allowed to relax, stretching outward. You happily note your Mana pool seems larger- your practice is paying off!
Cautiously, you approach the rock- it looks rather the same as it did before. Frowning, you begin to cast Sense Vitality, but stop- you can already see the Vitality of the rock! It registers as having 2- presumably what you stole from the tree. You glance at the tree- you can't tell how much Vitality it has, though you know the Sense Vitality spell would tell you. You'd heard that practiced Mages could sense Vitality even without the aid of a spell, but you'd always dismissed that as a rumor. Perhaps skill in the magical arts brings more than an increased Mana Pool, you muse.
You bend closer- to your eye, the rock appears to have a fine network of purple lines across it. You sense, rather than see, an undirected ball of Vitality within. The rock doesn't appear to be doing anything.
Sighing, you consider your situation. Animating that rock took a lot of Mana- it is only midafternoon, but you don't have that much Mana left. Should you continue with one of your less Mana-intensive experiments, or do you have an idea for an experiment you could do related to your new-found abilities? And what will you do with the Rock, when you finish for today? You don't know if you can easily destroy it, and although you can probably suck the Vitality out of it with a spell that would leave nothing for experimentation. Then again, it's a rock- it doesn't appear to be able to move, and it isn't obviously
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Post by: EveryZig on November 30, 2011, 01:29:23 am
Post by: Ehndras on November 30, 2011, 03:19:45 am
Attempt to siphon the mana from the stone into a dead creature... Or yourself.
Perhaps, like a crystral, we can infuse objects with a small mana reserve for later use! Like cheap artifacts of our own!
In any matter, do NOT leave the rock. We dont want a magical trace alerting travelers or making anyone curious. ALWAYS be cautious, any mistake can spiral into a
Post by: lurtze1 on November 30, 2011, 10:38:59 am
Oh and practice an evil laughter, you always need those when you least expect it.
Post by: Grek on November 30, 2011, 11:22:23 am
-Cover the rock with a peice of cloth, such as our cloak.
-Place the rock in our pouch.
-Place the rock on the far side of a living tree.
-Place the rock inside the cavity of the dead oak tree.
-Bury the rock under half a foot of soil in a spot where we can find it again.
Assuming that final tests is able to successfully hide the rock, bury the rock just outside of our grove instead of destroying it. We'll want it around for research later, and for possibly making life storage thingies. If it doesn't seem like we can successfully hide it, we'll have to destroy it.
Post by: Shades on November 30, 2011, 11:40:11 am
Assuming that final tests is able to successfully hide the rock, bury the rock just outside of our grove instead of destroying it. We'll want it around for research later, and for possibly making life storage thingies. If it doesn't seem like we can successfully hide it, we'll have to destroy it.
I agree, it makes sense to see how well we can hide our changes now before it becomes important. And it would be nice to not have to destroy everything we create.
Post by: Dwarmin on November 30, 2011, 12:09:40 pm
Let's try to link our senses to the mana in the rock-for example, find out if we can see, hear and detect magic from it.
Post by: EveryZig on November 30, 2011, 01:23:53 pm
Post by: kopout on November 30, 2011, 04:45:59 pm
This raises an interesting question, one that I am abashed for not having come up with sooner: What are the limits on the various magical detection abilities? In order to answer this question, and find a suitable way to hide the rock from observers, try the following tests:I second these ideas. They cost no mana and should be informative.
-Cover the rock with a peice of cloth, such as our cloak.
-Place the rock in our pouch.
-Place the rock on the far side of a living tree.
-Place the rock inside the cavity of the dead oak tree.
-Bury the rock under half a foot of soil in a spot where we can find it again.
Assuming that final tests is able to successfully hide the rock, bury the rock just outside of our grove instead of destroying it. We'll want it around for research later, and for possibly making life storage thingies. If it doesn't seem like we can successfully hide it, we'll have to destroy it.
I'd like to find out if we use the rock to sense things from afar. We already know we can 'switch' with our undead beings.This is also a good idea, though it wil likly leave use with too little mana to drain the rock. So try to find non magical ways to hide it first.
Let's try to link our senses to the mana in the rock-for example, find out if we can see, hear and detect magic from it.
WHATProblem. The rock is not full of mana it is ful of vitality. I like the idea of having life stored in things as a way to have quick and dirty healing, see if it is easyer to drain life from animate objects than from living things try this after we have tried to take over the rock though, if it looks like it will cost more then 2 to do we should stop part way through. that is another idea, see what hapenes when you stop a spell part way through do you expend some of the mana cost all of it or none of it. I doubt it will cost less to steel from an animate object though as it cost 3 to steal from the zombie as well as the tree.
Perhaps, like a crystral, we can infuse objects with a small mana reserve for later use! Like cheap artifacts of our own!
Post by: monk12 on November 30, 2011, 06:43:00 pm
Spoiler: Author's Note (click to show/hide)
This raises an interesting question, one that I am abashed for not having come up with sooner: What are the limits on the various magical detection abilities? In order to answer this question, and find a suitable way to hide the rock from observers, try the following tests:
-Cover the rock with a peice of cloth, such as our cloak.
-Place the rock in our pouch.
-Place the rock on the far side of a living tree.
-Place the rock inside the cavity of the dead oak tree.
-Bury the rock under half a foot of soil in a spot where we can find it again.
Assuming that final tests is able to successfully hide the rock, bury the rock just outside of our grove instead of destroying it. We'll want it around for research later, and for possibly making life storage thingies. If it doesn't seem like we can successfully hide it, we'll have to destroy it.
Make it a pet rock called rocky... All joking aside, we should do some science on it and then drain the thing, we don't want to have some random traveler/elf finding a living rock.
Oh and practice an evil laughter, you always need those when you least expect it.
Assuming that final tests is able to successfully hide the rock, bury the rock just outside of our grove instead of destroying it. We'll want it around for research later, and for possibly making life storage thingies. If it doesn't seem like we can successfully hide it, we'll have to destroy it.
I agree, it makes sense to see how well we can hide our changes now before it becomes important. And it would be nice to not have to destroy everything we create.
We should remember to leave enough mana for ourselves to drain the rock, because we do not yet know if it will be detectable.
You decide that, if you must, you can destroy Rocky with Steal Vitality- but first, you'll use your other Mana to determine just how detectable it is. First, you cast Sense Vitality, and gain awareness of the Vitality around you. Interestingly enough, you note that while Sense Vitality informs you that Rocky has 2 Vitality, that is all it informs you of. You don't see the web of purple energy you can detect with your Necromantic Sight, nor do you have the sense the Vitality is concentrated anywhere in particular.
You first shield the rock in your cloak. You note that although Sense Vitality only works on line-of-sight (thus failing with this rudimentary precaution) your Necromantic Sight can still sense Rocky- although you can't see any of the details, you still know there's a 2 Vitality strong something or other beneath the cloak.
Rocky is too large to fit in your pouch, so you walk to the other side of a living tree and take a look. Sense Vitality, as expected, only registers the presence of the Tree's Vitality. Your Necromantic Sight, while unable to detect the tree's Vitality, is able to sense the Vitality of Rocky, but fainter than before. Backing up, you lose awareness of Rocky when you are about twenty feet away. Circling so you have line of sight to the cloaked rock, you still do not have awareness of it. When you approach again, you gain a stronger and stronger sense of it.
Drawing your belt knife, you begin digging into the soft, rain-soaked earth. After some time and effort, you have a nice little hole dug- rolling Rocky in, you quickly bury him. Your Sense Vitality spell has by now worn off, but you're certain that if it couldn't work through your cloak it won't work through the dirt. Your Necromantic senses seem muffled somewhat by the layer of dirt- you can still sense it, but you need to be fairly close- a dozen feet at the most. It is fairly obvious that something is buried here, however- the dirt is freshly turned, the leaves scattered, bits of sod strewn about. Then again, part of the reason you're out here is because no Elf is likely to stumble upon your hideaway, and even if they did, they aren't terribly likely to try and detect Vitality in a rock they find in a hole in the ground.
We should find a living insect then attempt to move the vitality from the rock to the insect, crushing the insect after we are done.
Problem. The rock is not full of mana it is ful of vitality. I like the idea of having life stored in things as a way to have quick and dirty healing, see if it is easyer to drain life from animate objects than from living things try this after we have tried to take over the rock though, if it looks like it will cost more then 2 to do we should stop part way through. that is another idea, see what hapenes when you stop a spell part way through do you expend some of the mana cost all of it or none of it. I doubt it will cost less to steel from an animate object though as it cost 3 to steal from the zombie as well as the tree.
Although you think it would be safe enough to leave Rocky unattended, you decide to perform a different experiment instead. Unearthing the Rock (much easier now that you've loosened the earth,) you snag a beetle you find hiding in the dirt. Bringing your will to bear, you Steal Vitality from Rocky. To your chagrin, you completely snuff Rocky's Vitality while only withdrawing some small fraction of it- a third of what it had, maybe half a Vitality point altogether. Nothing you can make use of, but then, this beetle is much smaller than you.
You redirect the Vitality flowing from Rocky to the beetle instead of you. To your eye, the Vitality appears to strike the beetle and bounce, dissipating. You ponder what this means, as you crush the beetle for safety. Maybe you can't push Vitality into living things, only dead things. Or maybe it would have worked if the beetle was injured first- perhaps this is just an indication you can't "supercharge" Vitality with this spell. Or maybe you just didn't have enough Vitality in your grasp to do anything with. Maybe it's something else entirely...
Well, you are out of Mana, and judging by the bit of sky you can see through the hole in the canopy it is nearing dusk. Noticing your crayfish have definitely started to turn, you leave your pouch hanging from the dead tree, hopefully safe from scavengers- you could use a chest to store things in, you reflect. Mentally marking your path, you return home, arriving a couple hours later. Eating your usual dinner of fish and wine, you enjoy an extremely restful night's sleep.
After finishing your breakfast, you arise at a knock on the door- it is the same fisherman as before, bearing another letter from Elana Foundwasps! Eagerly, you accept the letter and settle down at the table to read it.
After going through the pleasantries, the letter assumes a scholarly, lecturing tone. You grin- it's from Elana, all right. Life Magic, she writes, is fundamentally the art of encouraging the growth of Vitality. The practitioners of Life Magic have developed different techniques, depending on the effect the Mage wishes to achieve.
Growth is the most basic of the disciplines, and involves encouraging the development of living things. Mages who specialize in the discipline spend much time learning about the anatomies of many diverse creatures and plants- living things are complex beings, and to maximize potential requires a deep understanding of the finer mechanisms of Life itself.
Healing is another widely practiced discipline, and focuses on strengthening the life in a particular part of the body to facilitate rapid recuperation. Mages specializing in the discipline know much about the healing process as a whole, and can also help living things fight off disease.
The third, smallest discipline within Life magic is Imbalance, and is the use of Life magic as a weapon. Mages who specialize in the discipline can cause normally innocuous diseases to become life threatening illness, and can interfere with the biological mechanism of life by accelerating the growth of one area of the body without increasing the capacity of the body to handle the imbalance.
There is a certain amount of overlap, and since Elves are immortal they have the time to master all three disciplines, which puts less emphasis on specializing on one to the exclusion of the others. Elana is new at the art, however, so her initial discipline will inform her abilities for years to come. She says she is undecided between the Growth and Healing disciplines- she considers the use of Life Magic to destroy to be a perversion of her gift, as do most Mages. In fact, the few living Elves who are considered masters of that discipline are all old enough to have been children or novices during the Flight.
You set down the letter, reflecting on your own school of Magic. If Life is, fundamentally, the growth and increasing of Vitality, then what is Necromancy, exactly? You know it isn't just corpse related, and apparently it has applications on things that were never alive in the first place. It is certainly something to ponder.
It is still early morning, and the sun is shining. Should you reply to Elana now, or later, and what should you say? Do you have any other tasks you'd like to accomplish in town, or should you get straight to the experimentation?
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Post by: EveryZig on November 30, 2011, 07:36:21 pm
Quote
-Make a zombie insect that will stand still, then see if we can take its vitality when it is behind a rock (out of our line of sight).This experiment is probably no longer necessary, as we have seen that detect life does not work without line of sight (though there may still be other ways of detecting it).
We should also ask more about the strange things Pevo saw on his trip through the Grove Wasteland. When he talks about the undead he saw, ask him if there are ways to detect such creatures so you can avoid them. He might know if there are other ways to detect undead, but we have to be careful to have the subject turn up naturally in the course of the conversation.
[edit:]After that we should ask how he escaped the huge one that attacked him, both to have the conversation not end on the topic of detection and because I am kind of curious.
Post by: lurtze1 on December 01, 2011, 02:47:19 am
I do know that if life is eternal change, then death would be ethernal order.
We should find out if life is the true oposite of death or just an substitute.
Oh and I'm disapointed that we didn't practice an evil laughter or chuckle, please trow me a bone here.
Post by: kopout on December 01, 2011, 08:09:44 pm
Post by: Dave1004 on December 02, 2011, 02:26:21 am
:/
Post by: lurtze1 on December 03, 2011, 04:45:52 am
and we should find out if there is a way to make things that can't talk or walk like the rock walk or talk.
Post by: monk12 on December 03, 2011, 11:21:24 pm
Post by: Hitty40 on December 03, 2011, 11:25:32 pm
Also, mind if I draw some stick figure pictures to go along with the story? I know it's stick figures, but I'm trying to get better drawing.
Post by: monk12 on December 03, 2011, 11:54:03 pm
Good to see this isn't dead, I'm fairly enjoying it.
Also, mind if I draw some stick figure pictures to go along with the story? I know it's stick figures, but I'm trying to get better drawing.
Feel free! I was considering doing this as a crappy MS Paint suggestion thing to build those skills myself, but decided it'd take too long given the other stuff I'm already doing.
Post by: woose1 on December 04, 2011, 12:12:17 am
- All living things have a energy inside of them called Vitality. It seems to pertain to overall health and the energy of a biological construct. There is an upper limit to how much Vitality a being can hold, but you can apparently transfer Vitality into inanimate objects. We do not know if we can store limitless amounts of Vitality in objects, or what kind of objects are better at storing Vitality. In fact, we don't even know if we can transfer additional Vitality into zombies, or what this might accomplish.
- Some beings have an alternative energy called Mana. Mana is used to cast spells and manipulate matter and energy. Mana can apparently be stored in objects to accomplish different tasks. We do not know if there is again, an upper limit to how much you can store, or if some objects are better at storing Mana than others. Except Crystals. Derp. (Thanks, Lord Allagon)
- Mana and Vitality are interchangeable, but only through the use of spells, and from what we've seen, only from Mana -> Vitality. Necromancy or Death Magic, being the polar opposite of Life Magic, should be able to accomplish the opposite, Vitality -> Mana. However, this doesn't seem to be the case, as raising zombies costs Mana.
- Putting Vitality into corpses creates zombies, which for the most part seem to be largely unintelligent and act on instinct alone. It is currently unknown to us how the Vitality is generated in this case, seeing as larger creatures carry more Vitality but cost the same amount of Mana to raise. It is also unknown to us how to make these zombies more intelligent, or if it is even possible.
- It is possible to raise almost completely destroyed corpses. This seems to be different from Animating Objects, and costs more Mana depending on how destroyed said corpse is. However, the corpse in question also becomes harder to destroy itself, seeing as it is a mostly magical creature.
- We are able to influence the actions of our zombies, but only through direct control and only with the most simple of commands. We don't know how to give a zombie complex tasks or make them autonomous in any way.
- Life Magic is capable of 'enhancing' life in a living creature. In this case, anything with Vitality in it. (Insofar as much as we've learned. We don't know if this applies to 'animated' objects.)
- We should be able to, according to the rules of this universe, be able to 'enhance' the Vitality in one of our zombies. Seeing as we've only been raising corpses that have been dead for a while, it's reasonable to assume that their mental facilities of said zombies are somewhat lacking. That, and we've only been raising very simple critters so far, and nothing actually sentient.
'Healing' a zombie may be possible, but I'm not sure it's particularly practical seeing as we've only had small organisms to deal with so far. And we wouldn't be able to see the effects of raising something with little to no brain damage, as there wouldn't be much of a difference anyways.
That said, I say we move on to the next level of Croakmancy: raising a sentient being. We should attempt to heal the body of a zombie, and study its effects.
It's all a matter of whether or not we're willing to kill somebody for that opportunity. Though, if we could attain the ashes of a dead body, and raise that, then heal it, I'm sure the effects would be at least mildly interesting.
Finally, Attempt to get some Mana potions, or at least the crystals they come in. That way, we can accomplish more and go further with our experimentation.
EDIT: Oh, also, might as well try this out while we're at it. Attempt to turn Vitality into Mana. It'll be almost as good as Mana potions. Just be careful people don't start to notice vast swaths of decimated forest.
Post by: EveryZig on December 04, 2011, 12:18:51 am
I do agree we should try putting more vitality in a zombie (and the same thing with objects).
With the potions, if we start buying those and consuming them people might wonder what exactly we are doing with those.
Post by: woose1 on December 04, 2011, 12:21:32 am
We can't actually use life magic ourselves.What. Of course we can. What do you think we've been doing Sensing Vitality this whole time?
EDIT: Apparently you're right. Those spells fall under 'General'. Learn some goddamn life magic, you lazy bum.
By 'heal a zombie', do you mean put more vitality into it?Pretty much, since that's what the letter seemed to describe by the process of 'healing'. But we need to focus it in one area of the zombie, therein, the brain.
With the potions, if we start buying those and consuming them people might wonder what exactly we are doing with those.Not really, seeing as alot of the residents of this village/town/thing seem to be Mages as well. They've got to be in huge demand. Just say we're practicing our
Post by: EveryZig on December 04, 2011, 12:26:43 am
Post by: woose1 on December 04, 2011, 12:27:41 am
Still try to learn Life Magic, you big fat failure.
Post by: EveryZig on December 04, 2011, 12:34:52 am
Post by: Gamerlord on December 04, 2011, 01:04:36 am
We should fashion or buy a doll that can move it's limbs (has joints) and try to animate it.
Post by: Grek on December 04, 2011, 07:59:17 am
Inform our parents of our plans, ask Pevo if he has any recomendations for where to visit and let Elana know what we're planning in next letter to her. We should have time for one or two more letters before we leave, but it would be rude to put this off.
If we have time between necromancy experiments and our other preparations, start fishing/doing odd jobs for extra money. We'll need the money to get some basic supplies for our trip.
If anyone asks why we want a mana potion, we should say that it is "for emergencies" and leave it at that. If they don't press further (or don't comment on it in the first place), all is good. If they do press further, explain that we were worried that animals in Thrimesdur might be more aggressive and harder to calm. This, of course, is a cover story for our research, but it does have a grain of truth to it. We will want to make use of the mana potion if there's an emergency we don't have enough mana to deal with, and it is possible that animals in Thrimesdur aren't as friendly to the elves as the ones from home.
Post by: Lord Allagon on December 04, 2011, 10:58:41 am
We do know Crystals store Mana better. ---->
- Some beings have an alternative energy called Mana. Mana is used to cast spells and manipulate matter and energy. Mana can apparently be stored in objects to accomplish different tasks. We do not know if there is again, an upper limit to how much you can store, or if some objects are better at storing Mana than others.
Quote
A Mana Potion? I don't know of any Elf who can make those.Also, great read.
It isn't that difficult- anyone can learn the necessary spell. Mages tend to make them for themselves, though, since demand is low and their greater Mana reserves allow them to make more potent potables. The tricky part is getting the Crystal for the task.
Crystal?
You know, magical crystal. It is the only substance we know of that can reliably store and release Mana, and is an extremely versatile material with applications in almost all alchemical processes as well as many other branches of spellcraft. We don't have a natural supply of it, instead importing it from Thrimesdur and the Jeweled Coast.
This looks awesome!I support this.
We should fashion or buy a doll that can move it's limbs (has joints) and try to animate it.
Post by: EveryZig on December 04, 2011, 12:53:39 pm
Post by: woose1 on December 04, 2011, 01:02:46 pm
Well, yeah, but besides that. I'll edit it to include the crystals, but I meant if everyday materials were better at storing Mana and whatnot. Say, Metal>Wood. Enchanting objects involves basically 'storing' Mana in them, so that's what I meant.We do know Crystals store Mana better.
- Some beings have an alternative energy called Mana. Mana is used to cast spells and manipulate matter and energy. Mana can apparently be stored in objects to accomplish different tasks. We do not know if there is again, an upper limit to how much you can store, or if some objects are better at storing Mana than others.
Post by: neo1096 on December 04, 2011, 01:30:30 pm
Post by: fergus on December 04, 2011, 10:05:32 pm
Post by: Gamerlord on December 04, 2011, 10:18:44 pm
With the doll experiment, we can save ourselves some time and effort by using a piece of rope. That should be flexible enough while still being readily available.
But the creepiness of the doll as opposed to that of rope! THE CREEPINESSSSSSS...
Post by: Shades on December 05, 2011, 05:04:11 am
Well, yeah, but besides that. I'll edit it to include the crystals, but I meant if everyday materials were better at storing Mana and whatnot. Say, Metal>Wood. Enchanting objects involves basically 'storing' Mana in them, so that's what I meant.We do know Crystals store Mana better.
- Some beings have an alternative energy called Mana. Mana is used to cast spells and manipulate matter and energy. Mana can apparently be stored in objects to accomplish different tasks. We do not know if there is again, an upper limit to how much you can store, or if some objects are better at storing Mana than others.
We can't store Mana in everyday materials, at least so far. We can store Vitality it seems although so far we have been unable to do anything useful with it.
Problem. The rock is not full of mana it is ful of vitality. I like the idea of having life stored in things as a way to have quick and dirty healing
I should mention that Vitality and Mana are not interchangeable- Kopout has the right idea there (Ninja!) There may be spells and effects that convert one into the other (a lot of Life magic involves converting Mana->Vitality, for instance) but one is not a substitute for the other. Mages could tell you more about that relationship.
Post by: kopout on December 05, 2011, 02:48:44 pm
See if you can create a zombie from several different creatures, say, the shell from one crayfish and the flesh from another.I aprove of the !!Science!! inerent in this sugestion.
That said, I say we move on to the next level of Croakmancy: raising a sentient being. We should attempt to heal the body of a zombie, and study its effects.
It's all a matter of whether or not we're willing to kill somebody for that opportunity. Though, if we could attain the ashes of a dead body, and raise that, then heal it, I'm sure the effects would be at least mildly interesting.
That would invole killing some one and we arnt that kind of necromancer, we are on the straight and nerow. I like the idea of a good-ish necromancer
Quote
Finally, Attempt to get some Mana potions, or at least the crystals they come in. That way, we can accomplish more and go further with our experimentation.Buying mana potions would be very suspicius. we should go with option b
EDIT: Oh, also, might as well try this out while we're at it. Attempt to turn Vitality into Mana. It'll be almost as good as Mana potions. Just be careful people don't start to notice vast swaths of decimated forest.
good idea, makining it ourselvs is probably safer.
We should fashion or buy a doll that can move it's limbs (has joints) and try to animate it.
Post by: EveryZig on December 05, 2011, 03:04:01 pm
Post by: kopout on December 05, 2011, 03:16:32 pm
Post by: lurtze1 on December 06, 2011, 12:50:35 pm
Post by: Rockowl on December 07, 2011, 12:35:47 pm
Also, I suggest finding a caravan or merchant that doesn't really know you or could be suspicious of you, and ask them about the Mana Crystals. If they don't have them in supply, surely they should know where to find them. The ideal course of action depends really, how densely populated is this town our future Mistress of the Dark Arts lives in?
Further ahead we might want to explore the possibilities of invisibility spells or other means of escape or illusion. Between now and World Domination, someone's probably notice a thing or two, and we might not be able to mindcontrol them before they warn others and start a necro-hunt-gamepocalypse just yet. :P
Post by: monk12 on December 07, 2011, 02:15:33 pm
Never get sick if you can help it. Semi-related, never set deadlines for yourself if you can help it- I wonder how many times I'll have to learn THAT lesson again.
Turn was gonna be up today, but I think I'm gonna go curl up and die instead. TO BE CONTINUED
Post by: Rockowl on December 07, 2011, 02:39:23 pm
hhhhhoooaarrghh
Never get sick if you can help it. Semi-related, never set deadlines for yourself if you can help it- I wonder how many times I'll have to learn THAT lesson again.
Turn was gonna be up today, but I think I'm gonna go curl up and die instead. TO BE CONTINUED
Oh boy. That's what you get for being soaked in the rain while doing necromancy experiments, right? :P ...meh, don't worry 'bout us! Relax, eat and sleep well. Might be best to make a full recovery before doing anything, just make sure you get better!
Post by: EveryZig on December 07, 2011, 03:13:20 pm
Turn was gonna be up today, but I think I'm gonna go curl up and die instead.Can we raise your body if you do? :P
But yes, good luck with the recovery.
Post by: lurtze1 on December 08, 2011, 07:34:01 am
Post by: monk12 on December 08, 2011, 04:34:49 pm
Spoiler: Author's Note (click to show/hide)
Quote-Make a zombie insect that will stand still, then see if we can take its vitality when it is behind a rock (out of our line of sight).This experiment is probably no longer necessary, as we have seen that detect life does not work without line of sight (though there may still be other ways of detecting it).
We should also ask more about the strange things Pevo saw on his trip through the Grove Wasteland. When he talks about the undead he saw, ask him if there are ways to detect such creatures so you can avoid them. He might know if there are other ways to detect undead, but we have to be careful to have the subject turn up naturally in the course of the conversation.
[edit:]After that we should ask how he escaped the huge one that attacked him, both to have the conversation not end on the topic of detection and because I am kind of curious.
Some of these experiments are pretty risky to do in the Valve. Starting fires, buying dolls for no explicable reason, trying to pump extra vitality into zombies and all of that run a high risk of us being caught. It's time to prepare to leave for Thrimesdur:
Inform our parents of our plans, ask Pevo if he has any recomendations for where to visit and let Elana know what we're planning in next letter to her. We should have time for one or two more letters before we leave, but it would be rude to put this off.
You realize that your growing power is making you capable of greater feats, and each new ability is potentially a new way for you to be discovered. You need to get more serious about leaving for Thrimesdur, starting now!
You pen a quick letter to Elana Foundwasps, expressing some interest in her activities and the choice she faces before mentioning how your recent studies have given you a keen interest in life outside the Vale. You then write two more letters- one to your Mother, and one to your Father, informing them of your decision. They deserve to know.
These letters are important enough- and their recipients distant enough- that you feel the need to insure their speedy delivery. You find a young elf boy, and after a bit of haggling he agrees to carry your letter- in exchange for three days' rations and TWO copper pieces, the greedy bastard! Sourly, you watch him dart off- at least he'll deliver the letters straightaway. He'd better, for that price!
Heading to the Temple, you find Pevo singing a Teaching Song to a group of small children. You smile- it's one of your favorites, about the First Great Caravan that came to Yicelafo after the Golgothan War, bearing news about Balkoth's fall and bringing many fine crafts and supplies never before seen in the Young Vale. There is a sense of wonder in the tale, of a renewal in interest in the places beyond the borders of the Vale, coupled with an assuaging of fear. As Pevo finishes, sending the children off to lunch, you sit down with him.
Your song echoes my thoughts, Pevo Zephyrtempest- I've a yearning to see the places beyond the Vale, to feel the wind in my hair.
Oh, do you now? You do- I recognize that glint in the eye. I won't try to stop you- in fact, I'll speak to the Elders on your behalf.
You will?
I will. I'll ask you a question- can you tell me the last time somebody left the Vale?
No. When was the last time somebody left the Vale?
Two hundred and eighteen years ago. And that was just an expedition to catch a thief in the Thrimesdur Caravan- they never left the Walled Jungle. The last time an Elf walked in human lands was Two hundred sixty three years ago, when an adventurous young Ranger decided to leave with the Caravan and travel the Jeweled Coast- he fell in love with the Sea, and only visits infrequently now. I don't believe he's returned to Yicelafo since before you were born, though he's sent letters.
Two and a half centuries? That's a pretty long time.
And it is even longer by human standards- the grandfathers in Thrimesdur have maybe heard stories about their grandfathers' grandfathers encounters with Elvenkind. Maybe- more likely, most humans have forgotten we exist. I fear we are becoming too insulated, too cut off from the rest of the world. No, I won't oppose your journey- I'll do whatever I can to aid you.
It is good to have your support, Pevo. Do you have any advice on what to bring, or where to go?
Go wherever your feet take you, though it will be easier to convince the Elders to let you go to Thrimesdur- they are more comfortable with them than other humans. There is all kinds of equipment you could take with you- food, rope, bedroll, candles and crowbars, fishhooks and flasks, paper, parchment, pouches! I doubt you can afford a pack animal, so you'll have to make do- take what you can carry, and remember you can always buy what you need in most towns. Oh, I know! Come with me.
Pevo clambers to his feet, then leads you to his study. Rooting around his desk, he eventually comes up with a scrap of paper, then presents it to you proudly.
Spoiler: Yicelafo Map (click to show/hide)
What is this thing?
A map of Yicelafo, of my own creation!
It is? What are these brown squiggles?
Oh, those are the cliffs surrounding the Vale.
And the round green squiggles on top?
Those are trees!
Uh-huh. And the green lines?
That would be the expanses of the Walled Jungle. And before you ask, those yellow dots are Elven hamlets, with Yicelafo proper being the one with the star, and the Black circle to the East is Larothor, "Squeezedlips." It is a moderately prosperous town of the Empire, and is where the caravans ferry across the Great River. It would be a good place to start your journey- from there, you can take the road or a boat South to visit the great cities, and if you reach the coast you'll be able to find a ship going just about anywhere.
Thank you- this is very useful! What if, say, I wanted to visit the Grove Wasteland?
Then you'd be a fool, but you'd be a fool that should take the road East out of Larothor. You'd want to travel to the Capitol of the Empire, where you'd choose to either head north across the wilderness or continue east until you hit the river- you should be able to get better maps there, anyway, to base your final decision on.
I suppose I'm a fool then- I'd like to visit the home of our ancestors. Were there many dangerous creatures there?
Nothing dwells there, that I encountered, apart from the skeletal monstrosity.
Is there a way to detect the undead creature? Magic or the like?
From what I know, any magic used to detect undead would require line of sight to the target, and at that point it is pretty obviously a skeleton monster.
How did you escape such a creature?
How do you think, girl? I ran faster than it! It seemed to give up after a few miles- for a while I had been worried it would just wait for me to collapse from exhaustion.
You ran for a few miles?
I wasn't born with this cane, you know! And I can still run when the occasion demands, at that. Here, I've got a smaller world map you can use for reference as well- Now off with ye, I've got some young'ns to teach. And I'll speak to the Elders.
Thank you, Pevo.
If we have time between necromancy experiments and our other preparations, start fishing/doing odd jobs for extra money. We'll need the money to get some basic supplies for our trip.
In addition to EveryZig's suggestion I would say that today should be used to get some of our planed experiments out of the way. That said I do have one to add test if we can convert vitality to mana, ideally something else's vitality rather then our own. If life mages can convert mana to vitality maybe necromancers can do the opposite
EDIT: Oh, also, might as well try this out while we're at it. Attempt to turn Vitality into Mana. It'll be almost as good as Mana potions. Just be careful people don't start to notice vast swaths of decimated forest.
You decide to divide your free time between shoring up your meager cash reserves, and practicing your Necromantic arts. With the day half gone, you elect to spend the latter half of this day in experimentation at the Tree.
You first decide to try converting Vitality into Mana- it certainly seems like a Necromantic sort of thing to do, and didn't you hear a story about Necromancers killing people for power?
You Steal Vitality from a nearby tree, and easily handle the ball of Vitality that emerges. You think of the way Mana feels when it flows out of you when spellcasting, then imagine that flow reversed. Nothing. You try to focus on the Vitality, thinking to break it down somehow, but it seems as homogeneous as water. You try to pull it into you while directing it towards your Mana pool, but the Vitality just hits you and dissipates without noticeable effect.
Frustrated, You walk back to the tree and try to feel the Vitality within- maybe you can extract the Vitality as Mana directly. You can't detect the Vitality, so you Sense Vitality- you can feel the Vitality, but you just sense its presence, not its form or its flow. You try to reach in and take it with your thoughts, but you realize that you are simply preparing your Vitality stealing spell, not attempting something new. It seems like there should be a way to do this, but you can't figure it out.
This looks awesome!I support this.
We should fashion or buy a doll that can move it's limbs (has joints) and try to animate it.
With the doll experiment, we can save ourselves some time and effort by using a piece of rope. That should be flexible enough while still being readily available.
You get a short length of Rope Reed Fiber rope, and settle down to weave it into a doll. The task is surprisingly more difficult than it looked when your mother did it for you as a child, but after some trial and error you hold a figure with a large, looped head, two long looped legs and short, uneven arms formed from the end pieces. Gingerly, you rest it on Rocky and attempt to Animate Object- nothing.
Puzzled, you try again, but the Mana fails to release properly. After a bit of thought, you remember that you were already manipulating Vitality the last time you cast this spell. Moving to a tree you haven't sapped yet, you Steal Vitality, extracting a ball of 2 Vitality from the living wood. As the ball of Vitality floats toward you, you gently redirect it to the Rope Doll, murmuring Animate Object.
Success- of a sort. The Vitality bleeds into the Doll, and your Necromantic Sight registers the Doll as possessing 2 Vitality... but the Doll just lies there. To your eye, the fibers of the rope bristle with purple fire, but it seems undirected. You poke at the Doll, but it remains limp and unresponsive. You attempt to Command Undead, but the spell fails to resolve- you realize you don't know what it's like being a Rope Doll, and the spell requires a certain amount of empathy.
You focus your mind on the Doll, trying to be the rope. It needs eyes, you think- if it had eyes, it could see. You try to imagine seeing through the eyes of the Doll, looking up at the canopy of the forest, and-
Alter Golem
You jump back, startled, as phosphorescent purple fire leaps to life! The head loop seems to gather the purple fire from throughout its body, concentrating it in the center of the loop. The head loop is alive with purple fire, but within the swirling energy is two bright points of purple flame- eyes.
You poke the Doll again, but still elicit no response. You yearn to experiment further, but you are out of mana for the day. You bury the Doll, and leave to do some fishing before sunset.
The next day is bright and sunny as you return to your experimentation. Digging up the Doll, it appears to have suffered no harm for its night in the dirt. You Command Undead, and this time your consciousness readily merges with the Doll. You can feel the dirt ingrained in the rope fiber- you try to lift your head, but fail. In fact, although you can look about freely with your eyes (even going so far as to peer out the back of your head at the stone you lay on,) you lack the strength to move the rest of your body. Curious- why is that?
Lacking ideas for further study regarding the Doll, you turn to accomplish one of your previous experiments- the zombification of a plant! You realize you probably should have uprooted a shrub yesterday in preparation for this task, since plants take a while to die... but then you remember you're sitting inside of a big ol' dead tree!
Moving outside, you focus on the tree and Raise Zombie- and stagger back, in pain and shock! Clutching a nearby tree to hold yourself up, you take stock- raising the tree not only drained your entire mana pool, but it appears to have caused you harm as well! Drawing a shuddering breath, you examine the oak- it's undead alright. The entire trunk is wreathed in dancing purple fire. Examining the hollow, you notice that where there used to be a deep gouge in the core of the tree there is now a purple cylinder bridging the gap. Purple fire seems to flow up and down the trunk within that cylinder.
Standing back, you gaze on the tree in dismay. Even now, in the middle of the day, you can see the purple glow faintly reflected by the surrounding trees. At night, this place will blaze like a bonfire. But what can you do about it? You have no mana, and destroying the tree by hand will be extremely difficult without help, especially since you are unsure exactly how much punishment this thing can take. Maybe nobody will walk this way in the night? It's hardly something you'd like to stake your life on, but it may be your only option. You need to think of something!
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Creations (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: World Map (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Yicelafo Map (click to show/hide)
Post by: fergus on December 08, 2011, 05:42:55 pm
Post by: EveryZig on December 08, 2011, 05:50:10 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on December 08, 2011, 06:17:54 pm
What fools we are!
But the question remains - can anyone other than ourselves even SEE the purple fire? When the skeleton was mentioned, nothing was mentioned about a purple flame - in fact, can you recall any mention of a purple flame, or is this simple the swirls of necromantic magic?
First, determine if we need to hide it at all - Walk a distance away, and see if the light grows dimmer - if it grows dimmer more quickly than the visibility of the tree, it is likely a byproduct of our magic vision rather than our true vision. We should be okay, in that case.
Unfortunately, I'm not even sure cutting it down would cause it to become inanimate - with focused meditation, could we regain some of our mana?
Then we must try undoing the magic, directly, perhaps with steal vitality.
Post by: Gamerlord on December 08, 2011, 07:27:30 pm
Post by: mcclay on December 09, 2011, 12:14:22 am
Definitely steal vitality.Promblem, we have no mana left.
Post by: Grek on December 09, 2011, 12:58:17 am
Face it: we're panicking. Stop. Breathe. Doesn't that feel better? There's still six hours till dusk. Eight until it's properly dark. GlyphGryph has the right idea here. Do the test that GlyphGryph suggested. Rocky (who had 2 vitality) was invisible to Sense Vitality at a distance of 20 feet. If the range is linear with vitality, then the tree should become invisible at a range of 50 feet. If it's exponential (5 feet per point of vitality squared), then the necromantic aura will become invisible past 125 feet.
We have time to deal with this, as long as we don't do anything hasty. It cost 10 mana and 2 vitality to raise this thing, and we don't know what the conversion rate between mana and vitality is, but we do know that if we cast a spell that's too big for us, we will not be able to stop it, it will drain the last of our vitality and then we will die. I like those odds a lot less than I like the odds of walking back to town (calmly!), getting a mana potion using the excuse we came up with before (it's for our upcoming trip to ) and then returning in two hours [/]to deal with this on a full pool of mana.[/b]
Post by: Shades on December 09, 2011, 08:45:43 am
I like those odds a lot less than I like the odds of walking back to town (calmly!), getting a mana potion using the excuse we came up with before (it's for our upcoming trip to ) and then returning in two hours [/]to deal with this on a full pool of mana.[/b]
This works, but by your logic I really see no harm in preparing for our trip with the rest of the day and dealing with it tomorrow when we are fresh. Pending the results of Glyphs' test that is.
It is slightly more risk but saves wasting a potion that we aren't sure how easily we can get hold of.
Post by: GlyphGryph on December 09, 2011, 12:08:17 pm
The last part may not be the best idea, but getting someone we could trust who believed us to not be evil would be a huge boon.
Post by: Rockowl on December 09, 2011, 05:31:42 pm
Quote
I like those odds a lot less than I like the odds of walking back to town (calmly!), getting a mana potion using the excuse we came up with before (it's for our upcoming trip to ) and then returning in two hours [/]to deal with this on a full pool of mana.[/b]
Great idea, but we could use said mana to Command Undead. Let the tree bury itself underground or hide somewhere. Chances are someone will find us with a giant walking undead tree, though, they're not the most stealthily of beings. I really like the idea of commanding a tree because:
1: It's huge, strong and awesome.
2: It probably doesn't have as much of a soul as a bear or other animal, thus should be much easier and cheaper to control.
3:
Quote
I doubt you can afford a pack animal,Need I say more?
Optional: imagine the possibilities of a giant corpse-eating tree for a (corpse)storage, mobile laboratory and means of transportation.
Post by: fergus on December 09, 2011, 05:37:07 pm
Post by: woose1 on December 10, 2011, 01:07:04 pm
Use 'Alter Golem' spell to give the tree eyes, rudimentary muscles, and some other sensory organs.
Also, vote for names on our giant undead walking tree abomination thing.
EDIT: This is after we go and get a mana crystal/potion, of course.
EDITEDIT: Oh, and failing that, do the above with the doll instead. You know, except for the eyes. We should probably bugger off and find an axe as well, just in case.
Post by: EveryZig on December 10, 2011, 01:49:13 pm
Post by: woose1 on December 10, 2011, 01:57:39 pm
Guys, do you remember the part where being discovered means going to war with everyone, a thing which we are not prepared for and don't actually want?But you forget that we have GIANT FUCKING MAGICAL TREES.
Post by: neo1096 on December 10, 2011, 02:36:01 pm
We have 1 giant magical tree. A giant dry magical tree. I wonder how vulnerable it is to fire? Do we really want to see how long it lasts against all of our elven brethren? Also, we are not evil. This has been explicitly stated. We should not be trying to give people a reason to destroy us, especially considering our limited supply of mana at the current time.Guys, do you remember the part where being discovered means going to war with everyone, a thing which we are not prepared for and don't actually want?But you forget that we have GIANT FUCKING MAGICAL TREES.
Post by: lurtze1 on December 11, 2011, 05:36:29 am
Post by: Dwarmin on December 11, 2011, 05:51:41 am
this way the thing wont get noticed
Yeah, because Elves don't live thousands of years and have exact memory of every one in the forest they've seen grow from sprout to tree...I mean, a tree that died instantly from one night to the next? Rising some eyebrows. Best we not leave any trace of us around it.
We need to take our magic back, and leave it truly dead and boring looking as possible.
Post by: Rockowl on December 11, 2011, 06:28:45 am
Code: [Select]
"HEY MAN, DONT HURT THE TREES MAN, DON'T HURT THE TREES!"
"But I was merely trying out stuff with magic and leveling up my Spellpower because-"
"DISREGARD LOGIC, DOCTOROCTAGONAPUS BLAAARGH."
Double rainbow hippy lazer hits you for 9001 damage.
Game. Over. End of thread.Then again,
You are a Necromancer.
Unfortunately, this is very likely to get you killed.
But what kind of necromancer is stopped by death?
So ya, I guess increasing our powers would be a good idea before starting an open war and getting
Above all things I REALLY don't want this game to end early.
Post by: GlyphGryph on December 11, 2011, 02:20:30 pm
Post by: Skyrunner on December 11, 2011, 05:41:46 pm
(is_watching)
Post by: monk12 on December 11, 2011, 11:59:45 pm
Gah, why would we go for the tree? Are there no leaves on the ground? No dead branches we could have dislodged!?
What fools we are!
But the question remains - can anyone other than ourselves even SEE the purple fire? When the skeleton was mentioned, nothing was mentioned about a purple flame - in fact, can you recall any mention of a purple flame, or is this simple the swirls of necromantic magic?
First, determine if we need to hide it at all - Walk a distance away, and see if the light grows dimmer - if it grows dimmer more quickly than the visibility of the tree, it is likely a byproduct of our magic vision rather than our true vision. We should be okay, in that case.
Face it: we're panicking. Stop. Breathe. Doesn't that feel better? There's still six hours till dusk. Eight until it's properly dark. GlyphGryph has the right idea here. Do the test that GlyphGryph suggested. Rocky (who had 2 vitality) was invisible to Sense Vitality at a distance of 20 feet. If the range is linear with vitality, then the tree should become invisible at a range of 50 feet. If it's exponential (5 feet per point of vitality squared), then the necromantic aura will become invisible past 125 feet.
Ok, ok, this isn't that bad- it isn't good, but it's not bad. After all, wasn't the whole point of doing this off in the deep woods so that random elves won't see you? First things first- let's see exactly how visible this mess is.
You first consider the possibility that the visible evidence is merely a product of your Necromantic Sight, an ability only you possess. This tree may well be invisible to the casual observer! With some chagrin, however, you remember that the trout had purple flames sprout from its eyes, and the ant had purple flame instead of a head- this was when you first discovered your power, and before you developed your Necromantic Sight. You also recall how your undead crayfish mishap was able to feebly illuminate your room- not a good sign.
Of course, theory is all well and good, but some solid experimental data is in order. Staying within the confines of your little grove, you stand at various distances to the tree- there is no real change in its appearance, and only slight variation in your Necromantic Sight. You begin backing through the trees, attempting to keep the tree in sight- although the tree's fire appears no dimmer, you do gradually lose your sense of the tree, finally petering out around 125ft from the tree. Doing some quick mental arithmetic (a skill you've had little reason to exercise before now,) you deduce that your Necromantic Sight must have a range relating exponentially to the Vitality of the Necromantic Energy being sensed.
Unfortunately, the tree is still quite visible at this range, although the trees make direct line of sight difficult. Circling around, you find that about 150-200 feet from the tree you cannot directly see it- however, you can still see the purple light reflected off the surrounding trees, even in the middle of the day. You suspect it will be much more visible at night, although it will also be less likely that an Elf will be in the area.
I agree with Sense Vitality. Regrettably costing us valuable mana, but probably be worth to check.Quote from: GrekI like those odds a lot less than I like the odds of walking back to town (calmly!), getting a mana potion using the excuse we came up with before (it's for our upcoming trip to ) and then returning in two hours to deal with this on a full pool of mana.
If anyone asks why we want a mana potion, we should say that it is "for emergencies" and leave it at that. If they don't press further (or don't comment on it in the first place), all is good. If they do press further, explain that we were worried that animals in Thrimesdur might be more aggressive and harder to calm. This, of course, is a cover story for our research, but it does have a grain of truth to it. We will want to make use of the mana potion if there's an emergency we don't have enough mana to deal with, and it is possible that animals in Thrimesdur aren't as friendly to the elves as the ones from home.
Although you briefly entertain the notion of getting an axe or starting forest fires to deal with your problem, you decide that the most expedient way to take care of the tree would be to use your magic. Although you are out of Mana, you were planning to weasel a Potion out of somebody anyway- may as well push that task to the top of your priority list! It's about an hour's walk back to the village- you can be back in two, three hours tops.
You waste no time, and hustle back to the village. Although you initially plan to jog, or at least hurry, you find yourself short of breath- that casting took more out of you than you thought. Still, you manage to maintain a steady, ground-eating pace back to the village.
When you return, slowing to a nonchalant stroll, you ponder which way to go. You had initially planned to buy a Mana Potion from a merchant, but that would involve a trip to a larger village across the river, and would add travel time to your task. In addition, you aren't sure how much a Mana Potion costs- you don't exactly have the time to spend an afternoon doing chores in payment. You remember that Pevo had mentioned how most Mages make their own Mana Potions- perhaps you could find Ari Wetdawn and persuade him to part with one. It's a place to start, anyway.
You get to the Temple in no time at all, and spy Pevo ambling inside. Lengthening your stride, you quickly catch up.
Hey, Pevo! Pevo, have you seen Ari about? I need to speak with him.
He's off on some task or another, Nym. He should be back sometime tonight.
Oh, burn me. It figures.
Oh? What did you need to discuss with him, that haste is such a concern?
Oh... it's nothing that can't wait, I suppose. I'd just thought that a Mana Potion might be useful for my journey to Thrimesdur.
What do you need a Mana Potion for?
You know, emergencies.
Oh, because your awesome arcane powers will get you out of any pickle, is that it?
Oh stop- I just thought that it'd be useful in case I encounter a great many vicious animals, or something.
I can assure you that most of the animals you'll encounter can be pacified as easily in Thrimesdur as here in the Vale. However, even without exhaustive magic use you'll be able to find a use for Mana Potions.
I will?
Oh, aye- for barter! Magic use is much less prevalent among the humans, and many of them are untutored by our standards. While almost all elves have some small Mana pool to draw upon, most humans don't have any at all, and many of those born to magic learn only the bare necessities before returning to service their home village. Why, more than a few times I paid for my lodging by making some weak Mana Potions for those weak wizards.
Really? You know how to make Mana Potions?
I do. In fact, my errand here today is to drop off a potion I whipped up for Ari- he's been too busy to tend to it lately, and it isn't like he needs a particularly powerful potion to supplement his abilities. Tell you what- how about, instead of just giving you this here potion, I show you how to make your own?
That'd be great! Um... how long does this normally take?
Once you've gotten the hang of it, it'll only take a couple hours, and most of that is just mundane brewery. The tricky part is learning the magecraft involved, since any mistake means you have to start over. I know I spent the better part of a day trying before I got the knack, my first time. What, do you have someplace else to be?
I...
On the one hand, learning this skill would be an invaluable asset. On the other hand, it sounds like the learning itself could easily suck up the rest of the afternoon and perhaps your evening, all while your Tree blazes merrily away. You could just wheedle that potion out of Pevo now and come back to learn another day... right? What do you do?
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Creations (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: World Map (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Yicelafo Map (click to show/hide)
Post by: Skyrunner on December 12, 2011, 12:04:48 am
Post by: Shades on December 12, 2011, 04:17:11 am
Sice you're going to leave soon, I vote learn!
Agreed, too important a skill not to learn even with the, arguable small, risk for someone noticing the tree.
Post by: Grek on December 12, 2011, 04:29:47 am
Post by: Grek on December 12, 2011, 04:30:35 am
Post by: fergus on December 12, 2011, 05:39:46 am
Key point to note: We don't have any mana right now. If Pevo asks us to use mana during the "how to use your mana to make potions" lesson (and, let's be honest, he will), we will not be able to do that. Pevo's sure to notice something's up, and we don't have a good explaination for what we did with all our mana. Let's not risk it. Let's beg off learning for today, saying that we had planned to talk to Omo (our ranger friend, remember him?) about your route and then pick up a few other things for the trip today, but promise to come by tomorrow and learn how, since it sounds extremely useful.
Right, just try to get a mana potion from someone.
Post by: GlyphGryph on December 12, 2011, 10:09:23 am
Quote
Let's beg off learning for today, saying that we had planned to talk to Omo (our ranger friend, remember him?) about your route and then pick up a few other things for the trip today, but promise to come by tomorrow and learn how, since it sounds extremely useful.
Yeah, beg off for now. It is a vitally important skill to learn, but if someone discovers the tree at this point, we'll need plausible deniability. If he somehow discovers we have no magic, that will be gone. In fact, no one being able to link the tree to us is, perhaps, our biggest advantage here. Worst comes to worst, we don't go back.
Ask if its possible to learn tomorrow, since you have preparations for your trip you were planning on making today.
On another note, how big WAS the tree? It was the dead remnants of a tree, right? Would it be possible to cover it with some sort of cloth or cover? Maybe we could, I dunno... paint it? The thing only has 5vp, so going at it with an axe is actually still very much a possibility if its larger. Maybe hack off some lives or something - the thing has less vitality than a healthy elf, it can't be that hard to re-kill, right? Even with the hardness, it should only take like 8 hits.
I actually think talking to Omo is a good thing at this point though - just don't waste too much time doing it. We need to figure out exactly how much we can trust him, too. And he may have useful advice for us, and it will cover for our story of begging off the potion lessons.
Post by: Ehndras on December 12, 2011, 04:01:28 pm
"Of course, theory is all well and good, but some solid experimental data is needed..."
*twitch twitch*
ITS A HYPOTHESIS, DAMN IT! The #1 misconception regular people make. A THEORY is proven by experimental data. A hypothesis is what you have there, an unproven idea. God damn it. It drives me crazy when people make that stupid mistake. Everyone just completely bypasses hypothesis and gives theory the meaning of hypothesis, which is downright fucking stupid.
Now, to continue reading this awesome RP.
Post by: Ehndras on December 12, 2011, 04:08:44 pm
Also, I wonder... Is it possible that the same way necromantic power surged in us, if there might be another necro in the region? Or is it really that rare? I'd figure we can have some sort of back story where something prevented the rise in necro power, or simply necros were all killed off when discovered, or some such.
Post by: EveryZig on December 12, 2011, 04:12:01 pm
Also, I wonder... Is it possible that the same way necromantic power surged in us, if there might be another necro in the region? Or is it really that rare? I'd figure we can have some sort of back story where something prevented the rise in necro power, or simply necros were all killed off when discovered, or some such.I think directly asking about modern necromancers would be somewhat suspicious.
Post by: Rockowl on December 12, 2011, 04:55:39 pm
Beg mana potion > go back > THINK THE NEXT OPTION THROUGH CAREFULLY, we really can't use another critical overshoot right now > solve tree issue.
Post by: fergus on December 12, 2011, 05:00:09 pm
Post by: Skyrunner on December 12, 2011, 05:06:53 pm
Ask to learn tomorrow -> beg a mana potion from someone part.
Post by: Grek on December 12, 2011, 07:27:44 pm
Post by: Skyrunner on December 13, 2011, 03:39:08 pm
Of course, you should ask for one politely.
Post by: Rockowl on December 14, 2011, 12:13:10 pm
Post by: ~Neri on December 14, 2011, 12:43:36 pm
Try to get a mana potion and ask to learn tomorrow.
Post by: monk12 on December 14, 2011, 12:45:08 pm
Post by: EveryZig on December 14, 2011, 01:35:50 pm
Post by: ~Neri on December 14, 2011, 01:58:26 pm
Post by: Rockowl on December 14, 2011, 05:33:39 pm
Look at the bright side: In a few hundred years, some necromancer will be happy to use the corpse.
Dude... seriously...
Post by: Ehndras on December 14, 2011, 09:39:41 pm
Look at the bright side: In a few hundred years, some necromancer will be happy to use the corpse.
I sincerely hope you were talking about the tree. In any manner, that was an extremely tasteless, if not downright offensive joke considering the situation at hand.
:|
Post by: joemoben on December 16, 2011, 05:51:04 pm
EDIT: There is no need for an axe actually. We may as well use rocky or any other blunt weapon.
Post by: K17U on December 17, 2011, 10:03:44 pm
Having to beg for a mana potion, which makes us both kind of rude and suspicious, because it's presumably sort of well known that we're not the sharpest tool in the shed concerning magickery, OR leaving a purple necromantic bonfire out in the open for everyone to see.
It's probably the latter that is worse, but the alternative is still kind of awkward.
Speaking of bonfires, it might be the simplest way to just set the tree afire?
I'm not sure how big it is exactly. If it's not too big, we might get away by saying that we were making a campfire, in the event that we should get caught.
Post by: Skyrunner on December 17, 2011, 10:51:34 pm
Post by: fergus on December 17, 2011, 10:52:15 pm
Post by: mcclay on December 17, 2011, 11:30:42 pm
Why so serious bro, just a harmless joke, quit your white knightting and get back to the game! No need to be so butthurt over a joke that doesn't even affect you, I would personally be chill with it if I were Monk.Look at the bright side: In a few hundred years, some necromancer will be happy to use the corpse.
I sincerely hope you were talking about the tree. In any manner, that was an extremely tasteless, if not downright offensive joke considering the situation at hand.
:|
Post by: EveryZig on December 18, 2011, 12:03:46 am
Why so serious bro, just a harmless joke, quit your white knightting and get back to the game! No need to be so butthurt over a joke that doesn't even affect you, I would personally be chill with it if I were Monk.Yes, someone on the internet doesn't have emotions about family or friends dying so clearly nobody does. Clearly.
Post by: mcclay on December 18, 2011, 12:48:09 am
Yes, someone taking things like the Internet and jokes far to serisouly has to be a jerk to everyone. Clearly. You really got back at me with that witty taunt, shouds I leave you to go yell at some "Trolls rning you 1337 forumgamez onoes !!!111oneoneone111!!!1"Why so serious bro, just a harmless joke, quit your white knightting and get back to the game! No need to be so butthurt over a joke that doesn't even affect you, I would personally be chill with it if I were Monk.Yes, someone on the internet doesn't have emotions about family or friends dying so clearly nobody does. Clearly.
Post by: neo1096 on December 18, 2011, 02:28:10 am
Post by: Cellmonk on December 18, 2011, 02:32:15 am
Post by: Rockowl on December 19, 2011, 03:17:03 am
Post by: fergus on December 19, 2011, 03:26:58 am
Back to subject, I say we take the "safety first" approach when it comes to the possibility of the entire region wanting your head on a stake.
Agreed. We should destroy the tree as soon as possible. No one will think we're a necromancer if they don't see any actual necromancy.
Post by: joemoben on December 20, 2011, 12:39:53 am
EDIT: We should also try Rocky on something truly living later if we survive that long, and see what happens
Post by: fergus on December 20, 2011, 01:33:03 am
Post by: Grek on December 20, 2011, 07:18:16 am
Post by: fergus on December 20, 2011, 04:02:40 pm
That gives us two real options:
Get mana potion -> Drain vitality
Get axe -> Cut down tree
Post by: joemoben on December 20, 2011, 04:33:34 pm
Post by: fergus on December 20, 2011, 05:00:58 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on December 20, 2011, 05:08:23 pm
Post by: fergus on December 20, 2011, 05:08:59 pm
Post by: monk12 on December 21, 2011, 11:45:37 pm
Spoiler: Author's Note (click to show/hide)
On another note, how big WAS the tree? It was the dead remnants of a tree, right? Would it be possible to cover it with some sort of cloth or cover? Maybe we could, I dunno... paint it? The thing only has 5vp, so going at it with an axe is actually still very much a possibility if its larger. Maybe hack off some lives or something - the thing has less vitality than a healthy elf, it can't be that hard to re-kill, right? Even with the hardness, it should only take like 8 hits.
[The tree (or rather, the largest remaining chunk of tree) is about twice your size, which is to say something like ten feet long and quite broad. If I happened to be stealing DnD size categories, then you would be a Medium creature while this tree is Large.]
Key point to note: We don't have any mana right now. If Pevo asks us to use mana during the "how to use your mana to make potions" lesson (and, let's be honest, he will), we will not be able to do that. Pevo's sure to notice something's up, and we don't have a good explaination for what we did with all our mana. Let's not risk it. Let's beg off learning for today, saying that we had planned to talk to Omo (our ranger friend, remember him?) about your route and then pick up a few other things for the trip today, but promise to come by tomorrow and learn how, since it sounds extremely useful.
Beg mana potion > go back > THINK THE NEXT OPTION THROUGH CAREFULLY, we really can't use another critical overshoot right now > solve tree issue.
-What, do you have someplace else to be?
I... actually, I've been meaning to chat with my friend, Omo Thunderjaw. I haven't spoken with him in a while, and as a Ranger he'd have some good advice for my journey. If it's all the same to you, can I learn tomorrow?
Sure, sure, don't let me keep you.
Thanks! Ah, Pevo, I don't suppose I could persuade you to part with that potion, could I?
Oh this? You don't want this.
Sure I do! I've never messed with mana potions before, it'd be nice to know what I'm getting into, I think.
Heh- alrighty then, have it your way. Actually, while my mind's on the subject, take this bag, too.
...Pevo, there must be half a dozen silver in here! I can't take this!
Sure you can! You might have scraped together enough coin to get by outside the Vale, but I'd like you to do more than get by. Besides, the Caravan from Thrimesdur will be here soon, and you might spy something you need for your journey.
Wait, really? Don't you think it's a bit early in the Spring yet?
Early it may be, but the Caravan is coming, no mistake. You haven't heard? They crossed the river yesterday, and should be moving through Yicelafo tomorrow. Ahh, my mind is slipping- I won't be able to teach you tomorrow, I'll be spending the day at the Caravan Fair.
Oh come on, the Caravan should be here a solid week! Besides, the festivities won't really kick in for a few days, once all the other elves arrive.
Aye, there's the rub! I'm not about to let every other elf in the Vale pick over the good stuff before I get there, and I'm certainly not going to be last to hear news of foreign lands!
Alright, fair enough- you've really done more than enough already. Thank you, Pevo.
Not a problem, not a problem- will I see you at the Fair?
Maybe not tomorrow, but we'll see. Farewell!
You wave goodbye, weighed down with Pevo's gifts. You give the Mana Potion a quick examination- the bottle is a dark, translucent blue, and fits comfortably in your closed fist. Unstoppering the bottle, you peer inside, sloshing about a dark liquid. Red, maybe? You catch a faint fruity scent wafting from the bottle- it seems familiar, though you can't quite place it. Carefully, you stopper the bottle back up and tuck it into your coin pouch.
Although visiting Omo Thuderjaw had not been in your plans prior to your conversation with Pevo, it had been something you wanted to do before leaving anyway. Besides, you can hardly not see him after using him as an excuse, and it's not like this should take long.
Without wasting time, You head off to Omo's house. It isn't all that far from your own- elves have children seldom enough that when an elven couple bring a child into the world, they often move nearer parents with another child or those expecting, just so the kids can grow up together. Omo and Elana were your only childhood friends, and though you've largely gone your separate ways you still share that special bond.
You find Omo chopping wood in his backyard, shirtless and sweaty. He is tall, even by elven standards, easily a couple hands higher than yourself. Unlike most elves, he keeps his blond hair cut short rather than gathered in a braid. His face would be handsome were it not for the prominence of the famous Thunderjaw chin- his eyes twinkle merrily as he sees you walk down the lane, and he leans back on his axe.
Ho, Nym! I'd begun to think you've been avoiding me! I haven't seen you in what, a week?
Hey Omo- has it been that long? Well, I've been busy lately.
Oh? And what have you been busy doing? Teaching the fish to sing?
As a matter of fact, I happen to be in the midst of preparations to leave the Vale.
Really, leave Yicelafo? Why?
I've got it in my mind to travel. See the world, something beyond this forest and river.
Since when? You've always been content to faff about doing this and that before now.
Well, that was then and this is now- people can change, you know.
Yeah, I know. Good luck getting the Elders to let you go- I've asked to take trips out of the Vale myself, without much luck I might add!
Actually, Pevo said he'd speak to the Elders on my behalf.
Pevo Zephyrtempest? I didn't realize you two knew each other that well.
Well, we've been chatting for the last week or so. He's partly my inspiration to travel, and he seemed supportive of the idea- he even gave me a bit of spending money.
Oh did he? It figures, I suppose- I'm sure if I had perky breasts like yours I'd get all kinds of nice things.
You'd look pretty funny with big breasts under that big chin- one might be mistaken for thinking you had no neck!
Ha! I suppose I would, at that. Say, Nym, as long as you're pulling strings to get out of Yicelafo, how about you pull one more and take me with you?
What? I thought you were training to be a Ranger.
Half the reason I became a Ranger in the first place was so I could wander out along the borders of the Vale- every patrol, I see the horizons outside the forest and wonder what's on the other side. Besides, you'll certainly need my help! What do you say?
I...
On the one hand, Omo is right- a trained Ranger (well, half-trained, anyway) would be a valuable companion on the road, and the Elders will probably be more amendable to your journey if you have a partner. On the other hand, Omo doesn't know about your unique talents, and you don't know how he'd respond to the knowledge. Necromancy nearly caused the extinction of your race, and that's the kind of thing nobody can take lightly. Hiding your talents from a traveling companion would be extremely difficult. What should you do?
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Creations (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: GlyphGryph on December 21, 2011, 11:55:32 pm
If he discovers us, or we decide the time has come to tell him...
Convince him we mean well, and this trip is, in many ways, a voluntary exile so that we do not hurt anyone. Tell him we brought him because we trust him to keep us on the straight and narrow and help us maintain control over any darker impulses. Tell him of our plans to use our power to cleanse the dark taint from our ancestral homelands or die trying. We may have magic that caused problems long ago, but we are not going to let it go to waste if there is good to be done with it.
If he remains unconvinced, we start lying. We can say the elders discovered our ability and that this exile was their idea. That, if they okayed him accompanying us, they trusted in him to serve the purpose of being the needed reliable influence. Ask him at least to return the elders before killing us, and to hear their support for our plan.
But really, if we are to stay good, we must not let ourselves become to isolated.
Post by: fergus on December 22, 2011, 12:16:01 am
Post by: joemoben on December 22, 2011, 12:45:48 am
If he remains unconvinced, we start lying. We can say the elders discovered our ability and that this exile was their idea. That, if they okayed him accompanying us, they trusted in him to serve the purpose of being the needed reliable influence. Ask him at least to return the elders before killing us, and to hear their support for our plan.
But really, if we are to stay good, we must not let ourselves become to isolated.
The whole lying about the elders would have to be a last resort kinda thing though. We can't exactly have him speaking to the elders about us, because if they know they can and will get every ranger and elf that can fight after us. Also on the topic of the here and now, we should say we need to think about it for a while.
Post by: GlyphGryph on December 22, 2011, 01:33:19 am
It's a last resort, for sure, meant only to buy us time to escape rather than because we believe the lies will hold up.
Again
Be relived at his offer, and happy, not hesitant, and tell him you'd be immensely grateful to have him along
Post by: Ehndras on December 22, 2011, 10:25:06 am
Spoiler: Retort (click to show/hide)
I think I know the obvious difference between an untested hypothesis and a an actual theory based on intelligent observations and evidence, thank you very much. Besides all that, this is one of my favorite RPs on B12. I am definitely looking forward to watching this RP's details and storyline fleshed out and expanded. :) Great job, mate, keep it up!
Post by: Grek on December 22, 2011, 10:53:56 am
There's no reason to explain to him about our powers now, but there's also no reason to lie about them once we're gone. The truth here is our best weapon: We want to discover ancient magics long lost to our people and break the necromantic curse on our ancient homeland.
Post by: GlyphGryph on December 22, 2011, 10:58:56 am
Spoiler: Ehndras (click to show/hide)
Post by: Hitty40 on December 22, 2011, 03:34:05 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on December 22, 2011, 03:41:57 pm
Post by: Cellmonk on December 22, 2011, 06:11:58 pm
Eventually, we'll discover how prudish and law-oriented he is, and from that decide whether to open up to him and have him as an ally, or become "accidentally" separated, in a crowd or out on the road. We may have to pause our experimenting for a bit, but there will be chances to test a few things (when you are "exploring the town" or "going on a stroll down the creek") Preferably, we should come out to him or leave him before he discovers us.
Don't forget to hide the evidence, now that you got the potion.
He may be able to tell us if the purple flame is visible or not, with some carefully planned experimentation
Post by: GlyphGryph on December 22, 2011, 07:59:44 pm
Quote
We may have to pause our experimenting for a bit
This is something we can't afford to do. Evidence seems to point towards going without using our magic make it manifest itself on its own, which isn't something we want to happen.
Post by: Cellmonk on December 22, 2011, 09:02:18 pm
QuoteWe may have to pause our experimenting for a bit
This is something we can't afford to do. Evidence seems to point towards going without using our magic make it manifest itself on its own, which isn't something we want to happen.
When I say pause our experimenting, I don't mean stop necromancy all together. I mean keeping it hidden, and therefore small scale (keep your necro-buildup down by doing brief and unfortunately petty experiments with beheaded ants etc while he's sleeping or away). Pause experimenting means not moving on to graveyards and giant trees right away. One can still practice it without making huge leaps and bounds, and while still remaining hidden. And most likely, when we hear the call of the grave, we can split from our friend in the night.
Post by: Elvisdogs on December 22, 2011, 09:20:29 pm
This would allow us to expend our mana while still practicing our abilities/trying experiments.
Post by: Cellmonk on December 22, 2011, 10:40:48 pm
Or we could just carry something inanimate. Then when he get a few minutes by ourselves we could just steal some vitality from a random plant (3 mp), put it into said inanimate object (4 mp), and this would allow us to have a sort of vitality dump for healing purposes. And if the purple glow is a problem we could just steal it back and it would dissipate or heal us depending on if we are injured.
This would allow us to expend our mana while still practicing our abilities/trying experiments.
Also, we could use the rock's glow as a way to test whether our friend can see it. We'd just need a reason for there being a purple light which wouldn't cause our friend to investigate. Like if we can get the spell faint enough that the rock doesn't visibly glow, but has a slight purple hue, then he wouldn't likely assume its magical (even less likely that he tests its vitality), but it might stand out to him, and he might remark on it. So if you found some quartz, and gave it minute vitality, he might mistake it for another mineral. You could palm it and steal its vitality the next time you have a chance.
Notice that no one has yet remarked on purple being associated with necromancy.
Also, he might know how to make mana potions. just might. Do all elves learn magic?
Post by: monk12 on December 22, 2011, 10:57:36 pm
Also, he might know how to make mana potions. just might. Do all elves learn magic?
Unlike humans, all elves have some small mana pool (normally 1 or 2 points, but it isn't too unusual for an elf to have a larger pool even without manifesting Life magic- You were considered one such) and learn Calm Animal as a matter of course- many elves will learn another general spell or two over the course of their immortal lives.
That said, you've known Omo all his life, and he's never been terribly gifted in the magical arts, nor has he expressed any great interest in that direction. That was more Elana's speed. As it rather looks like Omo will be joining the party, he'll get a rough character sheet next update.
Speaking of next update, you've got a Mana potion, and Omo has an axe- any final votes on how to resolve your tree situation?
Post by: fergus on December 23, 2011, 12:02:02 am
Post by: Cellmonk on December 23, 2011, 02:17:10 am
Speaking of next update, you've got a Mana potion, and Omo has an axe- any final votes on how to resolve your tree situation?
hmmm. It would be hard to explain why you'd take his axe. So make your plans with him, Unhurriedly leave after telling him to meet you later, then go up to the tree with the mana potion. Quaff only a little at a time, so that you might have some left after you steal all the tree's vitality. I'm not sure where that vitality should be stored tho.
And I'm sure you could find a book detailing the creation of mana potions. go to a library, if there's one. You also might learn something about the nature of the undead.
Post by: fergus on December 23, 2011, 03:39:20 am
Post by: Grek on December 23, 2011, 11:48:16 am
Post by: GlyphGryph on December 23, 2011, 12:02:50 pm
Post by: Cellmonk on December 23, 2011, 03:53:22 pm
Yes, use mana potion, as much as needed to shut down the tree with magic.
Yes. But we should first find out the mana density of the potion. So quaff one teaspoon, say, then check how much mana it added. We don't want to be going over maximum and wasting good potion.
Post by: Rockowl on December 23, 2011, 09:41:47 pm
We can't take him with us to the undead tree. It might be a good idea to destroy the tree ASAP and then lay low for a while. It's possible that someone has seen it, though highly unlikely. A good night of sleep and some time to think would do us good before heading off. Perhaps taking a peek at the market/caravan for anything that might be of use to us would be a good idea, too. Then we can leave the Vale, properly prepared.
Once we've left we need to set a goal. I mean, we could just head off in some direction and see what we might find, but it's probably best to head to a town or city. Cities have libraries and shops, perhaps sidequests, but also lots of people. That will make nightly experiments a lot harder. And eventually we'll run out of coin, too. Things to think about!
Post by: monk12 on December 26, 2011, 02:36:51 pm
Spoiler: Author's Note (click to show/hide)
Be relived at his offer, and happy, not hesitant, and tell him you'd be immensely grateful to have him along
We're definitely bringing him along, there's no doubts there... There's no reason to explain to him about our powers now, but there's also no reason to lie about them once we're gone. The truth here is our best weapon: We want to discover ancient magics long lost to our people and break the necromantic curse on our ancient homeland.
Half the reason I became a Ranger in the first place was so I could wander out along the borders of the Vale- every patrol, I see the horizons outside the forest and wonder what's on the other side. Besides, you'll certainly need my help! What do you say?
Of course I'd be happy to have you along!
Grand! When do we leave?
I don't know- I've got a few things to do first, and I have yet to speak to the Elders myself.
Are you going to the Fair tomorrow? I was planning on going that way, and as long as we're in Yicelafo we could speak to the Elders then.
I haven't decided when I'll get to the Fair yet- I only just found out about it. They'll be there all week, and this is hardly a time-sensitive task.
Maybe not for you, but I've wanted to leave for weeks now! I'll probably spend the week at the Fair- come and find me when you get out there.
Alright, sounds like a plan. I'll let you get back to tending your wood now.
Pfft- off with you, wench! Let me work in peace!
...sneak up on the tree, to check if someone is or has been around recently...
When and if we do take down the tree, we should bash it with Rocky a few times to check if having the vitality bestowed in it will give it any special properties when used as a weapon.
EDIT: We should also try Rocky on something truly living later if we survive that long, and see what happens
Yes, use mana potion, as much as needed to shut down the tree with magic.
Yes. But we should first find out the mana density of the potion. So quaff one teaspoon, say, then check how much mana it added. We don't want to be going over maximum and wasting good potion.
As you set off to tend to your own woody problem, you realize you never asked Pevo how much Mana your potion was good for. Well, it's not like Stealing Vitality costs all that much- surely if this potion is potent enough to help Ari in his tasks, it will be sufficient for your own. ...Right?
It is late afternoon by the time you return to your grove- beneath the thick canopy, it may as well be sunset. As you had feared, you are aware of the purple glow well in advance of your actual arrival. Carefully, you sneak around the trees, your inexpert eyes searching for signs that another Elf has been here. You gradually spiral in to the tree itself without seeing any elves, nor sign of their passage. As you regard the tree, you decide to indulge in a brief experiment before extinguishing its merry flame.
You harvested Rocky some time ago, but the Rope Doll is still where you left it. Picking it up, you start beating the tree with it, eyes peeled for any unusual effects. The rope flails against the tree much as any other rope would have- that is to say, ineffectually. The mere presence of Vitality in the doll does not appear to have any significant effect on its killing potential. Ah well, the attempt didn't cost you anything.
Stepping back, you unstopper your Mana potion. Your nose twitches again at the fruity, pungent odor. You slowly begin drinking the potion, taking care to keep in mind your Mana pool so you can stop when you have enough for the task at hand. It tastes extremely strange: fruity and sweet, but a little spicy, while the texture is grainy without being gritty, and thick.
As you drink, you can feel a pleasant, comfortable warmth spreading throughout your body. More importantly, you can feel your magical energy returning! Not nearly as much as you'd like, however, and as you drain the last drops you seem to max out at about 3 Mana. Maybe a quarter of what you're capable of, but enough for the task at hand.
You stretch out your hand towards the Undead Oak, and Steal Vitality. Your magics scour the Oak clean, and the purple flames flicker and die. However, you drain a much smaller amount of Vitality than you had expected- not even enough for 1VP! You'd rather hoped that this method of tree-destroying would have alleviated the ache in your bones. Come to think of it, though, you don't really feel that ache anymore anyway. That's a plus.
You rub your eyes- it feels like this day has taken weeks, you've emptied your Mana reserves, replenished and emptied them again, and it seems you've walked the length of the Vale twice over. You want nothing more than a warm bed and a good night's sleep. As you rise to leave, you notice your Rope Doll's eyes twinkling as it rests on the rock you left it on. You should probably do something about that.
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Creations (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: Cellmonk on December 26, 2011, 04:15:04 pm
Post by: Grek on December 26, 2011, 11:22:20 pm
Post by: EveryZig on December 26, 2011, 11:47:17 pm
Post by: fergus on December 27, 2011, 12:30:20 am
Post by: monk12 on December 27, 2011, 03:40:35 pm
Try cutting the rope doll into pieces with your belt knife. See if it destroys it. cut off a limb, and see if the life stays in the body or the limb. Then cut off the head, and see if the head remains alive. Find the smallest bit that can remain undead.
Although tired, you've never been one to pass up an opportunity for experimentation, and this shouldn't take long.
You fumble at your belt for a moment before drawing your knife, then lay the Rope Doll on the rock, face up. Lifting one of the "arms" you saw at the rope until it falls off. For a moment it maintains its faint purple cast before it fades back to a regular piece of rope. Your Necromantic Sight reveals a negligible dip in the Doll's Vitality. Hacking off the other arm yields a similar result.
Starting just below the head knot, you saw at the rope, severing the body from the head. The body "dies" much like the arms did- the Head remains animate. However, you note that the head (at this point a glorified noose) now only contains One Vitality, instead of the Two the whole Doll had. You slice through the top of the head loop, and the rope falls apart, the eyes winking out and the phosphorescent fire fading. The Rope Doll is destroyed.
Something about this strikes you as very sad, and fighting back tears you pile up the pieces of rope on the remains of Rocky. After a moment's consideration, you arrange the rope in a semblance of it's brief unlife- er, undeath? Animatedness. You are abruptly aware of how silly this is, internally debating semantics over the current nonliving status of a rock and piece of rope that were never properly alive to begin with, and certainly never had anything resembling a thought pass through them! You start giggling to yourself- Here lies Ropey the Rope Doll, may she rest in Pieces! Ha, see, it's funny because Ropey is in little chunks now.
You realize that you've been giggling to yourself in the dark for a while now- you aren't precisely sure how long, but it has certainly been longer than anyone should giggle while alone. The part of you that is rather concerned with things being precisely right suggests that this may be cause for worry, but you counter by suggesting nothing has been precisely right for a solid week now, so kindly shove off.
Oh right, shove off- you were going home now. Yes, that is a good plan. You jump to your feet to act on that plan and promptly fall on your bottom. You realize that might have gone better if you were sitting in the first place, but now you can do this properly. Jumping to your feet- well, to your knees, then you need a hand on Rocky to get the rest of the way- you exit the Grove. It is well and truly dark now, and though the sky was tinged with red in the Grove, here beneath the canopy it may as well be midnight.
It should only be about an hour back to your home, but it feels like it takes twice that, stumbling through the woods, tripping on roots and walking into branches. Then again, it almost feels like no time at all, so that averages out, right? You very very carefully climb the steps, but have trouble with the door, as you aren't quite sure where the latch is. Come to think of it, you aren't quite sure where your fingers are. Hang on a second.
*bleeearrgh*
There, much better. After a few moments, you manage to get the door open. With a great laugh at the puny door and its failed attempts to stop you, you shamble inside, collapse on the bed and instantly fall asleep.
...
You awaken the next morning dead. No, scratch that, you just wish you were dead. Your mouth tastes like socks, your clothes are rumpled and sweaty, and you have a pounding headache. Fuck this day.
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: Cellmonk on December 27, 2011, 06:48:42 pm
Are the elves familiar with alcoholic beverages? Are there any drinks less-than-graceful elves quaff away at in the night? It might help us understand the nature of this potion we have yet to find out how to make.
Humans pay much for mana potions, our friend said. Is this for the mana regeneration or for some other effect?
We should find a bar in our current town, and see if we can ask the bartender about mana potions.
Also, it seemed interesting that the loop was recognized as the center of life. We should test raising different rope Golems, some who are linear, some who are looped or knotted in different ways. How does the golem react to music, and what if we made one out of clay, with more distinguished features? We should do this before we meet Omo.
Finally, We have silver on us. we should test how it reacts with our magic. Can we put vitality in silver? what happens if we drop a silver piece through a Golem's head?
I guess we need to meet Omo.. tomorrow was it? We should get all our supplies ready. Fishing equipment, A hatchet, I'm not sure how skilled we are at archery, but a bow and some arrows might come in handy. We also should bring a tinderbox, unless we can start fires with magic, or elves have knowledge in white phosphorous. We want plenty of flatbread, some lemons to avoid scurvy, and some salt just in case we find ourselves far from the coast. We need a flask for water (other than our potion vial, which we may find another use for). We also need plenty of rope, some leather to wrap our feet in if it gets cold (and to experiment with), and some herbs in case of injury. We want a frame to pack this all onto, and a leather bag to mount on the frame and sleep in. A shortsword might come in handy, but it might be a bit expensive, and isn't a necessity. If we have or can get our hands on a larger knife or sword, we should find a light one. We don't want to weigh ourselves down too much.
Post by: EveryZig on December 27, 2011, 10:07:31 pm
Post by: Elvisdogs on December 28, 2011, 01:48:31 am
Alternately, the sickness might be an effect of the vitality loss rather than an effect of the mana potion.
Or it could be that the mana potion has an adverse effect on Necromancers. Maybe since it was originally made for a life mage (ergo our polar opposite) it was like drinking poison.
Post by: GlyphGryph on December 28, 2011, 08:46:52 am
As far as the potion goes... we were pretty irresponsible with our magic, but the potion did make us "giddy" (almost drunk!)
Maybe it was a side effect of draining our mana reserves completely twice in a row, though. Anyways, since we'll be seeing our mage friend on the way out, I imagine, we can ask her when we get there. Also, we should send her a letter letting her know we'll try to visit on our way to the outside, and we should try to visit.
Post by: monk12 on December 28, 2011, 11:46:39 pm
Hmmm. That's strange. The mana potion seemed to have the same effect on you an alcoholic beverage might have on a human.
Are the elves familiar with alcoholic beverages? Are there any drinks less-than-graceful elves quaff away at in the night? It might help us understand the nature of this potion we have yet to find out how to make.
You roll over and stuff your head beneath a pillow, away from the stabbing light of day. You haven't felt this hungover since the morning after your coming of age party. Your thoughts keep churning, despite the headache- is this a result of casting from Vitality? Maybe the workout you gave your Mana pool? Some other Necromancy related shenanigans? Actually, you first remember feeling off right after that Mana potion...
Wait a minute- that fruity taste... Sunberry! You hadn't recognized it at the time, what with the spiciness and strange texture, but you're reasonably sure the base of that potion was Sunberry Wine- a rather potent potable, as such things go. Elves- like most races- freely partake of alcoholic beverages, though they favor wines. Sunberry Wine, in particular, is a traditional Elven beverage, and the berries grow only in the Vale. It is famed for its strength and unique flavor, and is Yicelafo's prime export.
But that still doesn't explain the spicy taste, or the texture, and it only raises more questions. Do Mana potions need to be made of booze? Does the process of making a Mana potion make booze stronger? Is that why Humans buy the potions- for the side effects?
Maybe it was a side effect of draining our mana reserves completely twice in a row, though. Anyways, since we'll be seeing our mage friend on the way out, I imagine, we can ask her when we get there. Also, we should send her a letter letting her know we'll try to visit on our way to the outside, and we should try to visit.
You think it would be a good idea to visit Elana Foundwasps, and resolve to write her another letter. You remember, however, that you haven't heard a response from your last letter- maybe your messenger delivered the other letters first, or perhaps she's already at the Fair. You haven't heard back from your parents, either, although it is a good bet that your Father is leading the Caravan's escort through the Vale.
I guess we need to meet Omo.. tomorrow was it? We should get all our supplies ready. Fishing equipment, A hatchet, I'm not sure how skilled we are at archery, but a bow and some arrows might come in handy. We also should bring a tinderbox, unless we can start fires with magic, or elves have knowledge in white phosphorous. We want plenty of flatbread, some lemons to avoid scurvy, and some salt just in case we find ourselves far from the coast. We need a flask for water (other than our potion vial, which we may find another use for). We also need plenty of rope, some leather to wrap our feet in if it gets cold (and to experiment with), and some herbs in case of injury. We want a frame to pack this all onto, and a leather bag to mount on the frame and sleep in. A shortsword might come in handy, but it might be a bit expensive, and isn't a necessity. If we have or can get our hands on a larger knife or sword, we should find a light one. We don't want to weigh ourselves down too much.
Eventually, you muster the effort needed to get out of bed. After addressing some basic hygiene needs (you've got a nasty bruise on your shin, by the by,) you decide to do some preparation for your eventual departure from Yicelafo. You don't have a specific meeting planned with Omo, just the intention to join him at the Fair before asking the Elders permission to leave. Still, you'd like to be ready to go when you do get permission.
You start with the items you already own- starting with a large leather backpack, you start filling it with your fishing equipment, flint and steel, a waterskin, and a change of clothes. Alright, two changes. You should be able to buy traveling food for about 5 copper/day, lemons and salt for a few more. A good hatchet can run as high as 6 silver, but maybe you can haggle for a used one. You don't have a clue how much various herbal remedies cost- you'd have to consult a healer. A bedroll will probably run you a silver piece. Silk ropes would be ideal since they are both lighter and stronger, but are too expensive- Rope Reed fiber ropes cost 2cp/5ft, and you could pack a coil of 50 feet without too much trouble.
A shortbow and arrows would be nice, but is out of your price range- they normally sell for something like 30 silver. A shortsword, though requiring considerably less craftsmanship than a bow, is similarly expensive due to the general lack of metal in Yicelafo. A good, reliable metal dagger will probably run you 4 silver in the Vale. Both the shortsword and dagger will probably be cheaper if you buy from the Caravan at the Fair, though the sword likely won't drop into your price range.
Spoiler: Current Shopping List (click to show/hide)
Does that list look right to you? And how would you like to spend the afternoon, once the shopping is done?
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: GlyphGryph on December 29, 2011, 09:04:55 am
Some simple spells we can cast on the walk:
Get some more dead crayfish or something else fairly whole in a bag.
Insure we can raise them through the bag like we did that night, but keep them in the bag. See if we can raise two at once.
How do they interact?
Command them both to remain still and calm. We haven't done much commanding, so pay careful attention to the experience.
Drop some silver in the bag and see if they react.
Finally, attempt to "Alter Golem" on one of the zombies. Is there anything we can change? Can we mash them together and make them one zombie?
That should easily drain most of our mana for the day, and it's all stuff we can do on the walk without being obvious about it.
Post by: EveryZig on December 29, 2011, 10:00:33 am
Post by: monk12 on December 29, 2011, 11:45:11 am
The river closer to Yicelafo will be more densely populated than your home village, but the paths will be unusually full of other Elves going to the Fair. The traffic will only get worse as the week goes on.
Post by: GlyphGryph on December 29, 2011, 12:57:05 pm
Post by: Cellmonk on December 29, 2011, 03:37:58 pm
I stand by my plan. Figuring out how to surreptitiously use our magic will be incredibly useful, and that requires practicing. If people are REALLY worried, stop off the road aways on our journey (to answer the call of nature, if anyone is suspicious) and run our experiments there, but the key is to run them all while keeping our zombies IN THE BAG and the bag CLOSED.
Agreed. This doesn't seem all too dangerous. Its not like elves will be traveling secretly along the road without light. And the purple light probably wont shine out of a leather bag or a many-layered cloth bundle. Though you might end up altering golem on the bag itself accidentally. And you can always crush the contents with your unbooted foot. Or do elves wear boots?
Post by: GlyphGryph on December 29, 2011, 03:40:34 pm
Though you might end up altering golem on the bag itself accidentally.
We won't be stealing any vitality and infusing it into the bag, so the bag will not be a golem and thus (most likely) not a valid target for the spell.
Post by: Grek on December 29, 2011, 05:49:07 pm
Our total shopping list adds up to somewhere on the order of 1.4 gold. We have 6.6 silver. We're going to have to forgo buying some of the things that we'd like to have.
Step one is to ask Omo what he's bringing and strike any duplicates. If Omo is planning to bring a hatchet, 50' of rope, 3 spare ranger knives and a fully stocked medical pouch, we don't really need to be bringing the same. If it's still not enough, there' some other things to get rid of.
The dagger is an obvious answer, it would be redundant to have both a dagger and a knife. The hatchet is another obvious thing to drop, due to the 6 silver pricetag that would eat up 90% of our money all by itself. Even if we get it for cheaper, there's basically no reason for us to be chopping wood when we can collect deadfall in the traditional elfy manner. The rope is less obvious, since it's the cheapest item on the list, but we honestly don't have much use for rope outside of making another rope golem. It's not like we're planning to climb a mountain or something.
One thing that is notably missing from our shopping list is Writing Materials. Our ostensible purpose for going on this trip is to study the history of our people and, as such, we need to be prepared to actually take some notes so we have something to show for our efforts when/if we come back. Preference goes to charcoal and rope reed paper (cheap, non-spilling and lets us make rubbings of gravestones and markers!), but ink and/or vellum parchment is also acceptable.
I recomend the following:
Spoiler: Shopping List: (click to show/hide)
Post by: monk12 on December 29, 2011, 07:56:49 pm
As far as writing materials goes, your best bet is either Parchment(2 cp/sheet) + Charcoal/Chalk (1 cp/10pc), a Wax tablet (1sp), or a combination of the two. If you indulge in a Scroll Case (1 sp) you will negate the slight chance that your charcoal/chalk writings will be smudged beyond legibility, besides being generally more organized.
Spoiler: Longwinded Explanation (click to show/hide)
Post by: Grek on December 30, 2011, 12:04:54 am
As for writing suplies, I think 1 set of charcoal sticks and 4 vellum scrolls would be our best bet. 8 pages of writing available.
We can always get more/better supplies as needed once we have more money.
Post by: GlyphGryph on December 30, 2011, 08:03:03 am
Trail Rations(1.5)(5.1 remain)
Bedroll (1)(4.1 remain)
Rope (.8)(3.3 remain)
5 parchment + Scroll Case (How many pachments does a scroll case protect?) (2) (1.3 remain)
10xCharcoal (.1)(1.2 remain)
Wax Tablet (1)(.2 remain)
Also, another idea for stepping off the path to experiment on the way - we thought we saw some useful herbs. ;)
Will our parents be likely to show up at the fair? If so... MOOOOOOOCH
Post by: Dasmatarix on January 02, 2012, 11:42:57 pm
Post by: DinosaurusRex_x on January 03, 2012, 12:29:35 am
Spoiler: Future experiments (click to show/hide)
Post by: fergus on January 03, 2012, 01:37:43 am
Quote
- See if you can use Raise Zombie to unraise a zombie that was brought up by you.We already did this with crayfish. The more damaged a body is, the more mana it takes to revive.
- Is it possible to re-raise an undead that was killed again? Test by killing something you brought back. Test it again to see if it works by the above experiment.
Quote
- Test Steal Vitality's fatality. Can you steal enough of something's vitality to kill it? Or does the nature of the spell keep the target alive.We already did that with the tree.
Post by: DinosaurusRex_x on January 03, 2012, 03:20:47 am
Post by: monk12 on January 03, 2012, 04:51:24 pm
Shopingwise, we're in a bit of bad shape:
Our total shopping list adds up to somewhere on the order of 1.4 gold. We have 6.6 silver. We're going to have to forgo buying some of the things that we'd like to have.
Step one is to ask Omo what he's bringing and strike any duplicates. If Omo is planning to bring a hatchet, 50' of rope, 3 spare ranger knives and a fully stocked medical pouch, we don't really need to be bringing the same. If it's still not enough, there' some other things to get rid of.
...
I recomend the following:Spoiler: Shopping List: (click to show/hide)
We have 6.6 silver, so my proposed shopping list is...
Trail Rations(1.5)(5.1 remain)
Bedroll (1)(4.1 remain)
Rope (.8)(3.3 remain)
5 parchment + Scroll Case (How many pachments does a scroll case protect?) (2) (1.3 remain)
10xCharcoal (.1)(1.2 remain)
Wax Tablet (1)(.2 remain)
Also, another idea for stepping off the path to experiment on the way - we thought we saw some useful herbs. ;)
Will our parents be likely to show up at the fair? If so... MOOOOOOOCH
You rearrange your shopping list- a bit less food, since you can probably forage well enough on your own, lower priority on the rope since you don't plan on going anywhere particularly rugged soon... good enough for now. You get the bright idea to ask Omo what he has before you buy redundant items- that should save you some money, and he might have thought of things you've forgotten.
Spoiler: Shopping List: (click to show/hide)
How long a walk is it to the fair? I think, experimentation wise, we could do with laying low for a little while. And everyone we need to talk to and everything we need to do is there. Since we know we can use our magic on things we can't see (remember raising the crayfish), we can do some simple magic on the walk so as not to worry about it expressing itself during the night. Concentrate on trying to understand it, focus it, notice the details. Nothing particularly new or experimental, just going over what we know and see if we notice anything new.
Some simple spells we can cast on the walk:
Get some more dead crayfish or something else fairly whole in a bag.
Insure we can raise them through the bag like we did that night, but keep them in the bag. See if we can raise two at once.
How do they interact?
Command them both to remain still and calm. We haven't done much commanding, so pay careful attention to the experience.
Drop some silver in the bag and see if they react.
Finally, attempt to "Alter Golem" on one of the zombies. Is there anything we can change? Can we mash them together and make them one zombie?
That should easily drain most of our mana for the day, and it's all stuff we can do on the walk without being obvious about it.
You decide to take a break from running around in the woods by yourself, and take a trip to the Caravan Fair. Omo is probably already there, and you don't want to spend your limited cash without consulting with him first- besides pretty much anyone who is anyone will be there. After all, the Fair is the social event of the season! Songs will be sung, dances danced, strange items and stranger tales from the outside world put on display, and various mind-altering substances will be readily available for those so inclined.
Although, this is not to say you won't be doing some experimentation. After all, it would be most embarrassing to suffer Mana buildup in the midst of the greatest gathering of Elves short of the Fall Fair. The crayfish you already had are back at your little Grove (and probably rotted to goo, come to think of it,) but you know of a little pool not too far away that is too small to support larger fish, but is a ready supply of crayfish, toads, and other little creatures suitable for bait.
You easily net a pair of minnows, and let them air-drown on your way back to your home. Hesitating a moment, you decide to wrap them in a rag before putting them in your pack, sandwiched between your spare clothes. Securely buckling the pack shut, (after preparing a meal for later,) you set off on your journey to Yicelafo.
Heading to the river, you walk westward along the bank. Elves aren't much on making roads, but between the frequent traffic and tall trees there isn't much undergrowth along the river's edge, making it the fastest way to Yicelafo if you don't have a boat. After you get about half an hour outside village limits, you feel alone enough to attempt some subtle Necromancy.
Focusing on the minnows in your pack, you attempt to Raise Zombie- no dice. Frowning, you think harder- you picture how they looked in the rag, imagine them pressed down by the weight of your clothing in the dark of your pack, and you Raise Zombie. You spend 1 Mana, although you don't feel any different. Casually, you unshoulder your pack, holding it in front of you- although you don't see any direct light, your Necromantic Sight informs you of the existence of a source of Necromantic energy within the pack.
Continuing along the riverbank, you shoulder your pack and try to imagine what it is like to be a minnow. You are long, you are swim, you have little fins and are half tail, you are wedged in a rag in a sack, and you Command Undead. You gain that peculiar double vision- before you you see the woods, the river flowing by, an elf in the distance, but you are also aware of cloth and dark and a nearby dead fish. The undead minnow is flopping about, and you silently command it to remain still. Carefully looking through the minnow's eyes, you are reasonably certain the minnow is still fully wrapped in the rag- good thing, too, since you'd rather not have your clean clothes smell like fish.
You amicably nod to the elf as she passes, and she smiles back at you. Whistling a jaunty tune, you continue upriver with your passenger, passerby none the wiser!
Once you're alone again, you prepare to raise the second minnow. You hesitate a moment- you've been maintaining the Command Undead spell on the first minnow, and you aren't sure whether you can cast a different spell while doing so. There's one way to find out!
You aren't in any rush, and carefully think about what you want to do, while maintaining awareness of the current minnow. When you feel prepared, you Raise Zombie. Through the eyes of your current minnow, you happily watch fire erupt from the other minnow's eyes, and it begins to jerk about in a mockery of its last moments of life. It appears to take no notice of its traveling companion.
You try to shift your awareness to it, but cannot. Thinking for a moment, you carefully cast Command Undead while maintaining control of your first minnow. You gain a general awareness of the other minnow, but you don't gain its perspective. You try to order it to be still, but fail. Thinking a moment, you try to shift your awareness again- this time, you succeed! You maintain a general awareness of the first minnow, but now you see through the eyes of the second minnow. You order it to be still, and it complies.
As you walk along, you try different experiments as it strikes your fancy. You try to directly control them both at once, but fail. You try to Alter Golem to merge them into one superfish, but fail. When you pause for dinner, you take a moment to poke them with a silver coin, with no noticeable effect.
After dinner, you decide to do some testing of the range of Command Undead. As you walk away from your pack, your awareness of the minnow (both through Control Undead and Necromantic Sight) begins to drop off rapidly- once you get more than a couple yards away from your pack, the spell ends along with your Necromantic Sight's awareness of the minnow's existence. Returning to your pack, you sense the minnows again, but don't regain control of them.
As you consider the results of your experimentation, you continue upriver. You soon encounter more and more elves, some slower than you, some faster. Many of them carry a pack with camping gear, similar to yours. With the setting of the sun, you arrive at the outer limits of Yicelafo. On the north side of the river (the side you are currently on,) you see lights twinkle into being as the Arboreal City winds down toward the night. Across the river, similar lights at ground level betray the presence of the reveler's camp- somewhere on that shore the Caravan itself is also resting, resting before the renewed festivities tomorrow.
You ponder where to spend the night. You could always crash at your Mother's house- she maintains an apartment in downtown Yicelafo. Meeting with her is probably going to require some catching up and explanation of your journey, explanation that you may want to put off until the next day. You could also seek out Omo or another of your acquaintances across the river for a no questions asked rest, or, given how clear the night appears, you could probably sleep in the open by yourself, perhaps a bit worse for wear since you lack a bedroll. You should also consider how (and if) you will dispose of your minnows.
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 03, 2012, 06:04:11 pm
Post by: fergus on January 03, 2012, 07:03:37 pm
Post by: Cellmonk on January 03, 2012, 08:07:49 pm
Steal their vitality and eat them.
Eat them before stealing their vitality.
Post by: Grek on January 03, 2012, 08:38:20 pm
We should probably go find Omo. If we're going to be camping with eachother for who knows how long, we may as well find out if he snores.
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 03, 2012, 09:25:44 pm
I agree with finding ohmo though, but dispose of zombies first.
Post by: DrVoltron on January 03, 2012, 10:56:54 pm
I doubt we'll be able to/ have time to do any experiment during the fair so we'll have to put that on the backburner.
EDIT: Also don't forget to eat the fish, other wise they'll smell.
Post by: monk12 on January 04, 2012, 12:36:53 am
As a side note, if you were to drain both of them with Steal Vitality you'd get 1 HP. This isn't very exciting apart from the potential Science to be performed, since you'll regain your last HP with a good night's sleep anyway. [The author does not guarantee that you will get a good night's sleep tonight or any night]
As a bit of bookkeeping, I've done a couple things. For those who haven't realized, the OP has links to each update in case you're just lurking for the story and don't feel like reading the suggesty bits. The new thing is that I've added some rules to the second post. Nothing terribly exciting- think DnD but somewhat simplified to make it easy on me, and based on a d12. They mostly only apply to combat, so if you are thinking about suggesting violence as a solution to your problem you now have a means to evaluate how likely you are to succeed. Again, the vast majority of your suggestions will continue to be based on narrative logic.
I've also got an Equipment list up there so you can get an idea of what's available without specifically asking every time. Also so I don't have to refer to my notes, in the event I'm away from the home computer, but that's really a side benefit. Lord knows we don't need another spoiler at the end of each update, and I'm debating moving the Notable Figures bit to the Rules post as well. Definitely older maps, as they become less immediately needed.
I'll probably throw up some overland travel guidelines and other junk like that eventually- timed events don't flow at the speed of Plot, so neither should travel. Any questions, inconsistencies, vagueness or typos? Speak up!
Post by: fergus on January 04, 2012, 12:44:09 am
Post by: Cellmonk on January 04, 2012, 12:57:13 am
Dissecting the fish will kill it anyway, so we should probably just do the drain vitality test on both, unless we can Command Undead to make them remove their bones without destroying themselves.
I was actually opting for the "swallow them whole" route. I mean, we can nibble on their fins for a taste, but imagine seeing inside your own anatomy. We might even see something important.
Before we do that, though, we should see if we can make them self terminated. Don't want to try the whole "steal vitality" trick on something that's INSIDE you...
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 04, 2012, 08:24:04 am
I actually want to go with "command undead, see if you can tell it to stop being alive" for now. Command undead is cheaper than steal vitality, so its a better way to magically get rid of the zombies if it works.
Post by: EveryZig on January 04, 2012, 09:22:38 pm
Post by: fergus on January 04, 2012, 10:46:32 pm
We definitely want to have a reliable way to de-animate it before we swallow it.Stomach acid.
Post by: Elvisdogs on January 04, 2012, 11:04:45 pm
We definitely want to have a reliable way to de-animate it before we swallow it.Stomach acid.
My thoughts exactly
Post by: Cellmonk on January 05, 2012, 12:29:30 am
We definitely want to have a reliable way to de-animate it before we swallow it.Stomach acid.
My thoughts exactly
Does removal of the flesh deanimate? I mean, so far we have killed things by bisecting them in some way. but what if the vitality lies in the bone?
Post by: fergus on January 05, 2012, 01:58:04 am
Stomach acid will dissolve bone.Does removal of the flesh deanimate? I mean, so far we have killed things by bisecting them in some way. but what if the vitality lies in the bone?My thoughts exactlyWe definitely want to have a reliable way to de-animate it before we swallow it.Stomach acid.
Post by: Cellmonk on January 05, 2012, 02:16:23 am
How quickly, though? I guess one needn't worry about the time-frame of minnow bones. As of yet, there is no evidence of people detecting undead at all, so I guess I'm worrying too much. Though if we can watch from the fish's perspective while it is digested, we might learn something from how long it takes to undiedie.Stomach acid will dissolve bone.Does removal of the flesh deanimate? I mean, so far we have killed things by bisecting them in some way. but what if the vitality lies in the bone?My thoughts exactlyWe definitely want to have a reliable way to de-animate it before we swallow it.Stomach acid.
Post by: fergus on January 05, 2012, 03:38:08 am
It shouldn't take long. Hydrochloric acid is powerful stuff.How quickly, though? I guess one needn't worry about the time-frame of minnow bones. As of yet, there is no evidence of people detecting undead at all, so I guess I'm worrying too much. Though if we can watch from the fish's perspective while it is digested, we might learn something from how long it takes to undiedie.Stomach acid will dissolve bone.Does removal of the flesh deanimate? I mean, so far we have killed things by bisecting them in some way. but what if the vitality lies in the bone?My thoughts exactlyWe definitely want to have a reliable way to de-animate it before we swallow it.Stomach acid.
Post by: Grek on January 05, 2012, 04:56:12 am
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 05, 2012, 07:46:26 am
Post by: monk12 on January 05, 2012, 02:58:42 pm
Dissecting the fish will kill it anyway, so we should probably just do the drain vitality test on both, unless we can Command Undead to make them remove their bones without destroying themselves.
I was actually opting for the "swallow them whole" route. I mean, we can nibble on their fins for a taste, but imagine seeing inside your own anatomy. We might even see something important.
Before we do that, though, we should see if we can make them self terminated. Don't want to try the whole "steal vitality" trick on something that's INSIDE you...
Eat one of the minnows. Does it taste like it's spoiled at all during the time it's been zombified, or did the unlife preserve and protect it from bacteria and mold growing on it?
You move into the bushes by the side of the road, out of sight of passerby. Composing yourself, you cast Command Undead- it's easier now that you've practiced, and you command one of the minnows. You command, Die, but no response. Cease, Still, End, Self-Terminate... no luck.
You decide to deal with the dead things the way any elf deals with a dead thing- eat it. Quickly, before anyone can see you, you scarf down the minnow. It tastes pretty terrible, what with being a cold raw minnow and all. There's a bad moment where you can't make yourself swallow it and it sticks in the back of your throat, but with supreme effort of will (aided by making the minnow "swim") you manage to get it down.
You are rewarded with one of the most singularly unpleasant and repulsive experiences you've ever had. Although you lose the sensation of the minnow wriggling down your gullet after it gets through your throat, you can still sense its presence in your esophagus with your Necromantic Sight. You think you can feel it moving, but you're pretty sure that's just psychosomatic. From the minnow's point of view, you now know that your esophagus is a slimy, disgusting place that squeezes your food down and down. Soon the minnow hits your stomach, and you have a few moments to enjoy the sight of your half-digested dinner sloshing about before the acid melts the minnow's eyes.
Unfortunately, this does not kill the minnow- not right away, anyway. You are vaguely aware of the flesh of the minnow dissolving away- you are pretty sure most of the tail is gone by the time contact is severed, and your Necromantic Sight stops registering anything in your stomach. You are queasy, [8] but don't vomit. So that's something, anyway.
The thought of trying that again- even without Command Undead in effect- turns your stomach. You decide to use your magic to eliminate the other minnow. This is a good time to knock off one of your planned experiments- leaving the minnow tucked away inside the bag, you focus on it and Steal Vitality. Success! You don't steal an appreciable amount of Vitality, but you kill the minnow (again) and now know that Steal Vitality does not require Line of Sight- not through cloth and leather, anyway.
We should probably go find Omo. If we're going to be camping with eachother for who knows how long, we may as well find out if he snores.
Go find your friend at the fair and talk about what traveling supplies you'll bring along today or tomorrow, whenever it's convenient and then buy them. If possible, some time over the next few days find Pevo and learn how to make mana potions, this is practically a must have skill, we need it and leaving before learning how to make them would suck.
I doubt we'll be able to/ have time to do any experiment during the fair so we'll have to put that on the backburner.
EDIT: Also don't forget to eat the fish, other wise they'll smell.
You decide to go find Omo- you can pool resources tonight and be ready to take care of business tomorrow. You walk further into Yicelafo, the path faintly illuminated by the lights in the treehouse windows above. At this hour, there are few travelers about, but you aren't alone when you get to the Canopy Bridge. The Canopy Bridge is the main thoroughfare between the North and South sides of Yicelafo, composed of a massive rope bridge anchored to two massive trees on either end, stabilized by ropes to the ground and other, smaller trees, and stretching whole across the Great River before dividing into a mess of smaller bridges and arboreal pathways.
From your vantage point atop the South end of the Canopy Bridge, you can see campfires and tents stretching to the south, the shadowed late-night revelers moving from camp to camp. Looking for any given elf in the dark at this hour would be a difficult task, but you know Omo. When you reach the ground, you listen to the snatches of song drifting through the trees, and head in the general direction of the bawdiest, most enthusiastic chorus. Before long, you come to a sizable group of elves well into their cups, and it is easy to pick out Omo's tall figure among the celebrants.
Oy, Omo!
Nym! Glad you could make it- come on, you'll have to do some serious drinking if you want to catch up!
Nuts to that- let's head back to your tent and work out what we'll do tomorrow. I've got a few things packed for our trip, but I want to know what you have.
Omo's face becomes sober. Oh... you haven't heard. Come on, then, let's go.
Heard what, Omo?
Omo's only response is to press his mug of wine into your hand, and start walking away. The thought of alcohol makes you distinctly ill at the moment, and you run to catch up.
Omo! What haven't I heard?
The caravan brought news. Bad news. The world's on fire out there, Nym- there's no way the Elders will let us leave.
What? What happened? I know banditry was on the rise when the Fall Caravan came through, but hardly anything happens in human lands during the Winter.
The banditry is worse now, so they say, and the monstrous races have been raiding in force. But that's not the worst bit- there's a Necromancer in Thrimesdur.
WHAT!?! But... that's impossible! There's never been more than one Necromancer active at once, not since the War!
Oh, you've heard about the Necromancer along the Jeweled Coast then?
Omo misses your dumbfounded expression as he stoops before a tent, lifting the flap and ushering you inside. It's a simple tent, plain canvas held up by sticks and a nearby tree trunk- more of a lean-to than a tent, really. You lay down your pack and lean against it as Omo fumbles the flap closed.
So, yeah... between the Necromancers and the banditry and the fighting and all, we haven't got a hope of leaving.
Omo, I'm tired and not thinking straight. Can you start at the beginning?
Well, nobody knows much about the Necromancer along the Jeweled Coast- nobody is really sure where he is, even, but he has united the Pirate Lords and is ravaging the coastal trade, so we hear. Apparently he's been doing this for some time, but only recently has it come out he's a Necromancer. The one in, er, Thrimesdur, that one's new. Some blighter from some random village, just started up and raising hordes of the undead. He was tricky about it at first, so nobody stepped on him when he was starting out, but now he's got a massive army marauding back and forth across the Empire.
Is anyone stopping him?
Last word is he smashed a huge Imperial Army led by the Emperor's son, and every fight he wins swells his forces. They say he's marching on the Capital, but rumor says he's actually heading this way, to the cities of the Great River.
Bloody hell! What's with the merriment!?! You'd think there would be panic in the streets!
The hilarity is a bit forced- you can tell. I expect the Elders will call for full mobilization, mandatory conscription, seal the borders.
Are we going to war? I mean, out there- fighting by Man's side?
I don't know, Nym. I just don't know. We'll talk about it tomorrow, I need to sleep now. It's been a long day.
With that, he promptly curls up and falls asleep. You try to follow his example, settling with your pack for a pillow, but your mind is racing. Two other Necromancers? And apparently they're both thoroughly evil, or at least megalomaniacal- did they start that way? Were they like you, once? And what will you do now?
It's a long time before you fall asleep.
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 05, 2012, 03:12:28 pm
Post by: DrVoltron on January 05, 2012, 05:44:19 pm
Okay, in my mind, leaving is now more important than ever. We need to convince Omo of that. If the elders do not give their approval, we will have to leave without it. With or without him. We need to make clear that it is vitally important to us, and that we can do far more good out there actually learning about what is going on than being conscripted into the army or something.
This
Post by: Happerry on January 05, 2012, 05:47:58 pm
Post by: mcclay on January 05, 2012, 05:56:45 pm
Post by: fergus on January 05, 2012, 07:42:44 pm
Post by: joemoben on January 05, 2012, 09:23:30 pm
EDIT: TL;DR
long-term chase down army, watch from a distance, go to council, find dead boar in fair raise it. didnt realize it was such a Wall'o text
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 05, 2012, 09:30:05 pm
Post by: joemoben on January 05, 2012, 11:24:17 pm
No raising undead. But this is a great excuse to ask a bunch of questions about being able to sense the undead and necromancers in generalYou are correct my good sir, and i bow to your superior intelligence.
Post by: Cellmonk on January 05, 2012, 11:39:20 pm
No raising undead. But this is a great excuse to ask a bunch of questions about being able to sense the undead and necromancers in generalYou are correct my good sir, and i bow to your superior intelligence.
I bow to your intelligence in bowing to a superior intelligence who is also a good sir, my good sir.
Post by: joemoben on January 06, 2012, 09:45:04 am
No raising undead. But this is a great excuse to ask a bunch of questions about being able to sense the undead and necromancers in generalYou are correct my good sir, and i bow to your superior intelligence.
I bow to your intelligence in bowing to a superior intelligence who is also a good sir, my good sir.
NO. I refuse to start this pyramid of bowing My good sir
Post by: kopout on January 06, 2012, 02:26:01 pm
I bow to your greater self restraint. ;DNo raising undead. But this is a great excuse to ask a bunch of questions about being able to sense the undead and necromancers in generalYou are correct my good sir, and i bow to your superior intelligence.
I bow to your intelligence in bowing to a superior intelligence who is also a good sir, my good sir.
NO. I refuse to start this pyramid of bowing My good sir
On topic I agree with GG that this may be a good excuse to learn more about how to detect undead. Maybe phrase it as
"is there any way to sense the undead before they get get close enough to see you." This should avoid the " well of course ther is a way to tell if something is undead, it's rotting"
Post by: lockman766 on January 07, 2012, 10:24:24 pm
Post by: Cellmonk on January 07, 2012, 10:45:35 pm
on a different note we should try pricking our finger, and stealing the vitality of an insect or something, and see if it will heal the cut.
YES. YES. YES. YES.
I recommend using a rock (or crystal, if we can get it) to store the vitality too. Healing crystals might... Just might.. be useful. They could be a way of necroing out every day without being too obviously a necromancer. Fill a crystal over a period of a few days, then move on to another one kinda thing.
also, we should see how long blood holds its vitality. maybe we can create a better golem by smearing it with blood before raising it.
Another thing we need to play with is fire. Fire golem? HELL YES.
Post by: lockman766 on January 07, 2012, 11:00:46 pm
Post by: Cellmonk on January 07, 2012, 11:09:00 pm
Yeah, and if that works we could also use it to inconspicuously heal people with our necromancy.
Or, if we become popular, very conspicuously. That might be a way to get people who won't report us as a necromancer. Find a human with a sick child (since it seems that sick elves are rare). Heal said child with your "art". Suddenly you have someone who thinks necromancers can be ok after all.
Post by: lockman766 on January 07, 2012, 11:12:15 pm
Post by: adwarf on January 07, 2012, 11:12:28 pm
Post by: lockman766 on January 07, 2012, 11:21:42 pm
We can't risk doing Necro arts unless they prove to be truly good. I say we begin building an army, and once that other Nercomancer comes to attack our homes we march out with our forces to meet him.That could work, and were leaving the vale soon. I was thinking using necromantic healing more as a for the people in party thing. as for raising an army I would recommend we raise dead from underground catacombs, and usurp control of the enemy necros' zombies as well
Post by: adwarf on January 07, 2012, 11:23:19 pm
Post by: lockman766 on January 07, 2012, 11:28:24 pm
I think should not use acutally corpses of people instead ours should be made up of animals, and skeletal bodies we construct from animal bones to further prove our goodwill.A golem army you say? I like it in stead of using somebodies dead ancestors witch could paint us in a negative light. we use animals and inanimate objects instead...I like it.
Post by: Cellmonk on January 07, 2012, 11:42:59 pm
I think should not use acutally corpses of people instead ours should be made up of animals, and skeletal bodies we construct from animal bones to further prove our goodwill.A golem army you say? I like it in stead of using somebodies dead ancestors witch could paint us in a negative light. we use animals and inanimate objects instead...I like it.
How very punny. ;)
I think we should focus on the golem route. That might be seen as more natural than the zombie army route. We need to try to figure out how to make a golem that can move. I still stand behind trying clay automatons, and possibly jointed dolls. Just see whats needed to give the thing strength.
An army of trees might be nice, too. Try raising a weed (that we left out in the sun till it died, say), and see if it can be given movement
I think, from what we've seen so far, that the creation of a golem is a different part of necromancy entirely. Remember the sadness we felt after killing the first rope golem? I wonder if we are in fact creating a sentient soul. In that light, I'd feel bad about destroying any future golems, unless it is absolutely necessary. We should hide the ones we create, now that if they are found, they will probably be blamed on one of the two known necromancers running around.
So many complicated ethics!
Are there any stories about golems? Anything to draw some understanding from? Automatons perhaps? Pinocchio? Is there any way to ask an elder if past necromancers ever made minions which were not of flesh?
Post by: lockman766 on January 07, 2012, 11:55:47 pm
Post by: Cellmonk on January 08, 2012, 12:06:27 am
well I have a theory on how to get our golems to move, we have managed to give a golem eyes to see all we need is to give them bones for structure, and muscle for movement I think sewing dead body parts together would consume less mana. Keep in mind though flesh, and clay is soft wood, and metal is hard we may want to choose what a grand majority of a golem are going to be made out of.
Next city, befreind a potter. Have him teach you the art of pottery. Buy clay dolls from him. Make clay dolls. Build a golem of clay, adding things like meat or wood if clay can't move, and bones if a wire or hard ceramic structure doesn't work.
Play with blood. Maybe that's what the golem needs. Blood. Mix some of your own blood into the clay.
As for the hardness of the material, I feel like soft materials might be connected to movement, while hard ones to vitality, or something. We still need to see if we can raise a crayfish shell.
Post by: lockman766 on January 08, 2012, 12:11:42 am
So I take it that the clay dolls are going to be our practice golems or maybe our none combat helpers?well I have a theory on how to get our golems to move, we have managed to give a golem eyes to see all we need is to give them bones for structure, and muscle for movement I think sewing dead body parts together would consume less mana. Keep in mind though flesh, and clay is soft wood, and metal is hard we may want to choose what a grand majority of a golem are going to be made out of.
Find a source of clay. Next city, befreind a potter. have him teach you the art of pottery. buy clay dolls from him. Make clay dolls. build a golem of clay, adding things like meat or wood if clay can't move, and bones if a wire or hard ceramic structure doesn't work
Play with blood. Maybe that's what the golem needs. Blood. Mix some of your own blood into the clay.
As for the harness of the material, I feel like soft materials might be connected to movement, while hard ones to vitality, or something. We still need to see if we can raise a crayfish shell.
EDIT: Lots of punctuation, and grammar mistakes
Post by: Cellmonk on January 08, 2012, 12:58:45 am
So I take it that the clay dolls are going to be our practice golems or maybe our none combat helpers?
I think clay could be great material for combat. Better than flesh. Imaging a giant clay lion, with steel bones, a thick leather hide, and daggers embedded in its jaws and arms. If we could make the thing move, it would be immensely heavy and quite resilient. Zombies are just so dang fragile. Clay mixed with leather is tougher than the strongest hide as well as non-flammable, and steel speaks for itself.
Post by: lockman766 on January 08, 2012, 01:04:02 am
Hm never thought about that. I was thinking more along the lines of animated armor and stuff like that...Maybe do both put a clay body in plate armor?So I take it that the clay dolls are going to be our practice golems or maybe our none combat helpers?
I think clay could be great material for combat. Better than flesh. Imaging a giant clay lion, with steel bones, a thick leather hide, and daggers embedded in its jaws and arms. If we could make the thing move, it would be immensely heavy and quite resilient. Zombies are just so dang fragile. Clay mixed with leather is tougher than the strongest hide as well as non-flammable, and steel speaks for itself.
Post by: Grek on January 08, 2012, 01:16:10 am
Not yet anyways. Now when we have a perfectly legitimate excuse to leave coming up: We're young and healthy. We're sure to get accepted if we volunteer to fight in the upcoming war. We'll even weapons, armour and training in both. Once we're out of training, we'll be marched into Thrimesdur and volunteer for some scounting missions. Maybe an oppertunity to "get lost" will present itself, and we'll wander away from the army. There's no need to go against the law when the law can be made to work for us.
Necromancy-wise, I applaud the choice to switch over to golems. Animals are hardly worth raising and draw too much attention. Raising people is ethically dubious if they don't volunteer first. Golems have neither issue. At first, I think we should stick to rope golems. I personally recomend making a rope snake to test out how movement works for golems. Later, we can make metal men out of cast bronze.
Post by: lockman766 on January 08, 2012, 01:25:18 am
We shouldn't leave.I have a few problems with this. First if we join the army we probably won't leave, the elves(not sure if that's Grammatically correct) seem very insular which means they will probably not leave the Vale. Second if they do we can't very well dessert the army. There for our best bet is to run.
Not yet anyways. Now when we have a perfectly legitimate excuse to leave coming up: We're young and healthy. We're sure to get accepted if we volunteer to fight in the upcoming war. We'll even weapons, armour and training in both. Once we're out of training, we'll be marched into Thrimesdur and volunteer for some scounting missions. Maybe an oppertunity to "get lost" will present itself, and we'll wander away from the army. There's no need to go against the law when the law can be made to work for us.
Post by: Cellmonk on January 08, 2012, 01:57:38 am
We shouldn't leave.I have a few problems with this. First if we join the army we probably won't leave, the elves(not sure if that's Grammatically correct) seem very insular which means they will probably not leave the Vale. Second if they do we can't very well dessert the army. There for our best bet is to run.
Not yet anyways. Now when we have a perfectly legitimate excuse to leave coming up: We're young and healthy. We're sure to get accepted if we volunteer to fight in the upcoming war. We'll even weapons, armour and training in both. Once we're out of training, we'll be marched into Thrimesdur and volunteer for some scounting missions. Maybe an oppertunity to "get lost" will present itself, and we'll wander away from the army. There's no need to go against the law when the law can be made to work for us.
First things first, I think we should try to find out what sort of army the necros have conjured up. There might be mention of golems. We could ask more about what the necros have raised, and whether the necros are on the battlefield (within arrowshot) or away. We can ask if they seem to have other powers (like levitation or telekinesis).
We could approach that guy who saw the skeleton, and ask him more about his encounter. maybe ask about golems, if the subject arises.
Post by: lockman766 on January 08, 2012, 02:00:24 am
I agree with cell, but best to frame it a curiosity, or worry.We shouldn't leave.I have a few problems with this. First if we join the army we probably won't leave, the elves(not sure if that's Grammatically correct) seem very insular which means they will probably not leave the Vale. Second if they do we can't very well dessert the army. There for our best bet is to run.
Not yet anyways. Now when we have a perfectly legitimate excuse to leave coming up: We're young and healthy. We're sure to get accepted if we volunteer to fight in the upcoming war. We'll even weapons, armour and training in both. Once we're out of training, we'll be marched into Thrimesdur and volunteer for some scounting missions. Maybe an oppertunity to "get lost" will present itself, and we'll wander away from the army. There's no need to go against the law when the law can be made to work for us.
First things first, I think we should try to find out what sort of army the necros have conjured up. There might be mention of golems. We could ask more about what the necros have raised, and whether the necros are on the battlefield (within arrowshot) or away. We can ask if they seem to have other powers (like levitation or telekinesis).
We could approach that guy who saw the skeleton, and ask him more about his encounter. maybe ask about golems, if the subject arises.
Post by: Elvisdogs on January 08, 2012, 02:01:53 am
Zombies: Easy to make, and come fully equipped with their bodies.
Golems: More time and effort to make but are more durable and ethical. Much harder to make but much more effective.
So it may come down to a quality vs quantity debate if we choose to raise an army.
Post by: lockman766 on January 08, 2012, 02:04:41 am
I have a feeling that golems are the better and more ethical choice to use here. But I think the system might go like this:If this is the choice I choose quality over quantity.
Zombies: Easy to make, and come fully equipped with their bodies.
Golems: More time and effort to make but are more durable and ethical. Much harder to make but much more effective.
So it may come down to a quality vs quantity debate if we choose to raise an army.
Post by: adwarf on January 08, 2012, 02:08:55 am
Post by: Cellmonk on January 08, 2012, 02:16:45 am
I have a feeling that golems are the better and more ethical choice to use here. But I think the system might go like this:
Zombies: Easy to make, and come fully equipped with their bodies.
Golems: More time and effort to make but are more durable and ethical. Much harder to make but much more effective.
So it may come down to a quality vs quantity debate if we choose to raise an army.
I wonder if the necromancers use golems as their personal guard. Those golems might be relics from when they were more ethical and secretive.
If they don't use golems, I wonder if it is because golems are sentient and-or independent. I'm still curious if they posses a soul (which the undead appear to lack). I don't know how one would test this without making one which could move or speak. Maybe it all comes down to the level of knowledge and experimentation needed to make a mobile golem. Those evil necros might have been too impatient to do any research beyond "hey, I can raise a dead guy".
Post by: lockman766 on January 08, 2012, 02:22:43 am
I would imagine that they could grow to sentient, but are still bound to the Necro.I have a feeling that golems are the better and more ethical choice to use here. But I think the system might go like this:
Zombies: Easy to make, and come fully equipped with their bodies.
Golems: More time and effort to make but are more durable and ethical. Much harder to make but much more effective.
So it may come down to a quality vs quantity debate if we choose to raise an army.
I wonder if the necromancers use golems as their personal guard. Those golems might be relics from when they were more ethical and secretive.
If they don't use golems, I wonder if it is because golems are sentient and-or independent. I'm still curious if they posses a soul (which the undead appear to lack). I don't know how one would test this without making one which could move or speak. Maybe it all comes down to the level of knowledge and experimentation needed to make a mobile golem. Those evil necros might have been too impatient to do any research beyond "hey, I can raise a dead guy".
Post by: EveryZig on January 08, 2012, 02:31:51 am
>Golems
The bane of the undead is that which never lived.
A golem has no blood to infect, steal, or spill. It has no flesh that can be ripped or guts that can be torn by human hands. If only falls by being torn apart by extreme force, and when it does it leaves no corpse to easily raise.
(We do, however, have to beware the enemy necromancer himself screwing around with our golem(s).)
Post by: lockman766 on January 08, 2012, 02:33:38 am
We should avoid mentioning specific types ourself; we should just ask what kind of things the necromancer is using.I could get behind this.
>Golems
The bane of the undead is that which never lived.
A golem has no blood to infect, steal, or spill. It has no flesh that can be ripped or guts that can be torn by human hands. If only falls by being torn apart by extreme force, and when it does it leaves no corpse to easily raise.
(We do, however, have to beware the enemy necromancer himself screwing around with our golem(s).)
Post by: fergus on January 08, 2012, 02:34:26 am
Post by: lockman766 on January 08, 2012, 02:37:10 am
If golems have souls, then that makes zombies the more ethical option, magic involving dead bodies isn't actually evil.Yeah I honestly don't think they have souls. So I think I can safely say were good on that department. though that probably won't stop us from getting attached to them.
Post by: fergus on January 08, 2012, 03:03:41 am
Perhaps attachment to golems is how the other necromancers went evil.If golems have souls, then that makes zombies the more ethical option, magic involving dead bodies isn't actually evil.Yeah I honestly don't think they have souls. So I think I can safely say were good on that department. though that probably won't stop us from getting attached to them.
Post by: lockman766 on January 08, 2012, 03:10:41 am
Ah,but maybe lack of will did it. That's also assuming they went the golem route. Maybe the undead route can corrupt without the proper will power.Perhaps attachment to golems is how the other necromancers went evil.If golems have souls, then that makes zombies the more ethical option, magic involving dead bodies isn't actually evil.Yeah I honestly don't think they have souls. So I think I can safely say were good on that department. though that probably won't stop us from getting attached to them.
Post by: fergus on January 08, 2012, 03:48:40 am
That's entirely possible.Ah,but maybe lack of will did it. That's also assuming they went the golem route. Maybe the undead route can corrupt without the proper will power.Perhaps attachment to golems is how the other necromancers went evil.If golems have souls, then that makes zombies the more ethical option, magic involving dead bodies isn't actually evil.Yeah I honestly don't think they have souls. So I think I can safely say were good on that department. though that probably won't stop us from getting attached to them.
Post by: lockman766 on January 08, 2012, 03:52:54 am
Then again the power, and the stigma of it could have made them evil, or they could have been assholes to begin with...Sometimes the simplest answer is the correct one.That's entirely possible.Ah,but maybe lack of will did it. That's also assuming they went the golem route. Maybe the undead route can corrupt without the proper will power.Perhaps attachment to golems is how the other necromancers went evil.If golems have souls, then that makes zombies the more ethical option, magic involving dead bodies isn't actually evil.Yeah I honestly don't think they have souls. So I think I can safely say were good on that department. though that probably won't stop us from getting attached to them.
Post by: adwarf on January 08, 2012, 04:17:35 am
Post by: lockman766 on January 08, 2012, 04:23:17 am
Or they could have gone mad with power .. its always the simple answers. Necromancy doesn't make you evil the caster makes Necromancy evil. Necromancy didn't exist simply to become a way for never-ending war did it?Them be some heavy words, true as well :-\.
Post by: Cellmonk on January 08, 2012, 04:41:48 am
Like we tried to be the ropeman when we raised our first golem, we can try to be the earth when we make a clay or earthen golem, try to be the fire as we watch an enchanted flame, be the water as we cup enchanted water, be the air as we hold it in a flask. maybe even carve an ice-man if we ever make it into the mountains. maybe we'll learn something from the "natural" side of necromancy.
Post by: fergus on January 08, 2012, 04:46:54 am
We should find out if there were necromancers before the war. Is it something that has always been around in secret, or did it come into being at that time?
Post by: lockman766 on January 08, 2012, 04:51:23 am
Anyhow, I think we should avoid the zombie route as much as we can, if only to distinguish ourselves once we are discovered. Even using animal parts in our golems should be avoided, until we establish that an entirely inorganic golem isn't possible. Right now, I'm thinking elementals. fire, water, earth, and air.from what I can tell creating a completely inorganic golem is possible with the alter golem spell. we just have to create everything from necromantic energy. what I meant in animal part's being easier it was because it would take less mana to create parts, because the parts are already there.
Like we tried to be the ropeman when we raised our first golem, we can try to be the earth when we make a clay or earthen golem, try to be the fire as we watch an enchanted flame, be the water as we cup enchanted water, be the air as we hold it in a flask. maybe even carve an ice-man if we ever make it into the mountains. maybe we'll learn something from the "natural" side of necromancy.
Post by: Cellmonk on January 08, 2012, 05:06:01 am
from what I can tell creating a completely inorganic golem is possible with the alter golem spell. we just have to create everything from necromantic energy. what I meant in animal part's being easier it was because it would take less mana to create parts, because the parts are already there.
I wonder if thats true... Would raising the golem have taken the same strain were its head loop removed?
I pose a possible experiment:
try raising:
-Crayfish with head
-Crayfish with no head
-Crayfish with earthen/clay head
-Crayfish with rope/wood head
-Crayfish with meat/bone head
Post by: lockman766 on January 08, 2012, 05:08:30 am
You remember that ant from way back when?from what I can tell creating a completely inorganic golem is possible with the alter golem spell. we just have to create everything from necromantic energy. what I meant in animal part's being easier it was because it would take less mana to create parts, because the parts are already there.
I wonder if thats true... Would raising the golem have taken the same strain were its head loop removed?
I pose a possible experiment:
try raising:
-Crayfish with head
-Crayfish with no head
-Crayfish with earthen/clay head
-Crayfish with rope/wood head
-Crayfish with meat/bone head
Post by: Cellmonk on January 08, 2012, 05:56:22 am
You remember that ant from way back when?Yep. The question, though, is whether giving the ant a prosthetic head would have made a difference.
Post by: lockman766 on January 08, 2012, 06:14:17 am
I see.You remember that ant from way back when?Yep. The question, though, is whether giving the ant a prosthetic head would have made a difference.
Post by: lockman766 on January 08, 2012, 07:34:18 pm
Post by: Cellmonk on January 08, 2012, 07:47:58 pm
Been thinking about the whole polar opposite thing. In a way the polar opposites are linked.Life leads to Chaos, Chaos leads to death, death leads to order, and order leads to life. Am I making sense?
We should brainstorm the possible ways necromancy fits in with the other arts
Necromancy: Does it worship death, avert it, or create it? Seems like vitality is the opposite of entropy. We steal vitality from things to give it to others, creating entropy in one, and averting it in the the other. It is considered less natural than other arts, because it edits(?) the fabric of life, rather than simply adding or subtracting from it.
It seems that vitality is constantly being destroyed. when we give it to a rock, and take it back, we lose much or it. Where does it go?
Experiment: Give vitality to a rock. then take it back. Then give some more vitality. repeat until it is clear whether the rock can "saturate" with vitality, and stop loosing some.
We should also grow a plant if we have the chance. see if its vitality increases as it grows, and whether the soil is depleted of vitality around the plant. Try giving the plant extra vitality. see if it grows better. Grow a plant with vitality-enriched soil next to it. See if it grows differently.
Post by: lockman766 on January 08, 2012, 08:06:24 pm
It seems to me that death, and life are very close, because Life comes from Death, and Death comes from life. The whole concept is much like Yin, and Yang you can't have one without the other. I don't think were the first Elven Necro. When the elder brought up Resurrection I though it sounded strange I think for that to work you need a life, and death mage. I think the persecution, and hate towards death magic is what stopped resurrection.Been thinking about the whole polar opposite thing. In a way the polar opposites are linked.Life leads to Chaos, Chaos leads to death, death leads to order, and order leads to life. Am I making sense?
We should brainstorm the possible ways necromancy fits in with the other arts
Necromancy: Does it worship death, avert it, or create it? Seems like vitality is the opposite of entropy. We steal vitality from things to give it to others, creating entropy in one, and averting it in the the other. It is considered less natural than other arts, because it edits(?) the fabric of life, rather than simply adding or subtracting from it.
It seems that vitality is constantly being destroyed. when we give it to a rock, and take it back, we lose much or it. Where does it go?
Post by: joemoben on January 08, 2012, 08:51:01 pm
Post by: fergus on January 08, 2012, 08:59:38 pm
One more thing to note, I'm pretty sure that 3 necromancers (The one at the Jeweled Coast and Thrimesdur and us) awakening at somewhere around the same time is strongly connected, and I'm pretty sure the elders would have noted it also. This may lead to them guessing that there may be more popping up around the world. If they mention some kind of test at the conference, we should leave quickly.To suspicious. They'll realise it's us almost immediately.
Post by: lockman766 on January 08, 2012, 09:09:45 pm
Well we're getting out of here regardless so we might have to take that chanceOne more thing to note, I'm pretty sure that 3 necromancers (The one at the Jeweled Coast and Thrimesdur and us) awakening at somewhere around the same time is strongly connected, and I'm pretty sure the elders would have noted it also. This may lead to them guessing that there may be more popping up around the world. If they mention some kind of test at the conference, we should leave quickly.To suspicious. They'll realise it's us almost immediately.
Post by: adwarf on January 08, 2012, 09:13:53 pm
Post by: lockman766 on January 08, 2012, 09:20:20 pm
If we catch wind of even a minor rumor about it we leave instantly. We can't risk getting caught, and let the other necromancers do as they please. We must prove that just, because they use Necromancy for evil doesn't mean it can't do good things instead.agreed.
Post by: lockman766 on January 08, 2012, 09:57:40 pm
Post by: fergus on January 08, 2012, 10:26:38 pm
dare I say it...maybe it's to soon...oh to hell with it...bumpIt's been less than an hour. That's to soon.
Post by: Cellmonk on January 08, 2012, 10:38:14 pm
This is too good of a thread to be left idle for more than thirty minutes. Even at night.dare I say it...maybe it's to soon...oh to hell with it...bumpIt's been less than an hour. That's to soon.
Post by: lockman766 on January 08, 2012, 10:40:30 pm
well at least I have one guy on my side lol.This is too good of a thread to be left idle for more than thirty minutes. Even at night.dare I say it...maybe it's to soon...oh to hell with it...bumpIt's been less than an hour. That's to soon.
Post by: joemoben on January 09, 2012, 12:12:30 am
Post by: lockman766 on January 09, 2012, 12:19:13 am
We should also try to figure out why so many of us necromancers are awakening now. It also wouldn't be too far of a stretch to say that there are more in hiding like us. Also be much more discreet. For Christs sake Monk stop trying to get us found out.He means well.
Post by: monk12 on January 09, 2012, 12:32:47 am
Spoiler: Author's Note (click to show/hide)
I think should not use acutally corpses of people instead ours should be made up of animals, and skeletal bodies we construct from animal bones to further prove our goodwill.A golem army you say? I like it in stead of using somebodies dead ancestors witch could paint us in a negative light. we use animals and inanimate objects instead...I like it.
How very punny. ;)
I think we should focus on the golem route. That might be seen as more natural than the zombie army route. We need to try to figure out how to make a golem that can move. I still stand behind trying clay automatons, and possibly jointed dolls. Just see whats needed to give the thing strength.
An army of trees might be nice, too. Try raising a weed (that we left out in the sun till it died, say), and see if it can be given movement
I think, from what we've seen so far, that the creation of a golem is a different part of necromancy entirely. Remember the sadness we felt after killing the first rope golem? I wonder if we are in fact creating a sentient soul. In that light, I'd feel bad about destroying any future golems, unless it is absolutely necessary. We should hide the ones we create, now that if they are found, they will probably be blamed on one of the two known necromancers running around.
So many complicated ethics!
Are there any stories about golems? Anything to draw some understanding from? Automatons perhaps? Pinocchio? Is there any way to ask an elder if past necromancers ever made minions which were not of flesh?
One more thing to note, I'm pretty sure that 3 necromancers (The one at the Jeweled Coast and Thrimesdur and us) awakening at somewhere around the same time is strongly connected, and I'm pretty sure the elders would have noted it also. This may lead to them guessing that there may be more popping up around the world. If they mention some kind of test at the conference, we should leave quickly.
As it turns out, Omo does snore- noisily. Hopefully it's just a byproduct of the wine. You toss and turn, your thoughts dashing about a hundred different subjects.
You reflect on the Necromancer of Thrimesdur, whoever he or she may be. Why is it that every story that has a Necromancer in it involves that necromancer raising an army of corpses and going on a conquest spree? You'd think there would be some variation- after all, almost all cultures have taboos about disturbing the dead, so why does it seem that such concerns never bother a necromancer? You know from first-hand experience that Necromancers can create golems, but such creations figure in only a few of the oldest stories, and are normally associated with the Dwarves, not Necromancers.
Thinking of the sanctity of burial rites makes you philosophical. Desecrating graves and corpses is frowned upon because those bodies were once alive, but what is so special about life? Elves believe in a Spirit present in all living things- Humans believe that sentient creatures possess a Soul, with much the same purpose. Is the Spirit derived from Vitality, the presence of Life, or is it the other way around? Are you recalling the Spirit to animate the corpses you raise? Are you creating a Soul for the golems you create? There must be an answer...
Golems- your golems haven't been particularly impressive thus far. A rock with no abilities, a rope doll with no mind or ability to move. It certainly seems odd you can raise a fish with the ability to see, hear, and swim about with less effort than it takes to make a rock hold Vitality and nothing else. They're both inanimate, aren't they? Why are the rules different?
The other Necromancers might know, but then again, there shouldn't be other necromancers. You don't know how things were before the Golgothan War, but everyone knows that there were no Necromancers alive at its conclusion. In the intervening millennium, a handful of Necromancers arose independently in various locations, going on various world-conquering sprees with greater or lesser success before being inevitably defeated. One at a time, with hundreds of years separating them, not three at once. Maybe it's just random chance catching up with the world, or maybe there are more sinister forces at work.
With that troubling thought, you fall into a restless sleep.
Okay, in my mind, leaving is now more important than ever. We need to convince Omo of that. If the elders do not give their approval, we will have to leave without it. With or without him. We need to make clear that it is vitally important to us, and that we can do far more good out there actually learning about what is going on than being conscripted into the army or something.
I say we leaved before the Valley is sealed. If the Necromancers army is close by we may get a chance to talk to someone with strengths like us, and maybe convince them to not attack the eleves.
You awaken early the following morning- Omo is not in the tent. You take advantage of the privacy to change your clothes, pondering your course of action. You are hesitant to leave without gathering more information, but you cannot risk being trapped in the Vale- the close quarters and strict discipline of Army life would likely not agree with your need to practice your Necromantic arts.
You flip open the tent flap, stretching in the morning chill. Omo is tending a fire nearby, frying eggs and bacon in a pan. He motions you to take a seat on a comfortably mossy log and spills the contents of the pan into a small wooden bowl, and hands it to you before dropping more meat and egg into the pan with a sizzle.
Morning, Nym. Sleep well?
Well enough, considering you snore like a drunken bear.
Hah! Well, you won't have to put up with that any longer- I've thought it over, and decided to leave the Vale.
What? Really?
Really- I don't know what is going to happen here, but I do know if I report in I'll be the most junior of the junior officers, a position that was unpalatable enough in peacetime. I neither need nor want that kind of authority and responsibility.
Great! I thought I was going to have to convince you to come with me, but this will be much cleaner if we go together!
I- together!?! Nym, you can't leave!
Oh, but I could yesterday, is that it?
Yes! There wasn't a war brewing yesterday! I can hold my own in a fight, I can provide for myself in the wild, I can take what the world throws at me.
And I can't, right? You're so much better than me?
You know I didn't mean it like that, but let's face it, Nym- you don't have the skill set to survive out there. You aren't a trained fighter, you've never spent two nights together sleeping beneath the stars, and you aren't particularly sneaky- if we run into bandits or monsters or, the Light forbid, the forces of the Necromancer, all you can do is get yourself killed.
Hey, I'm not all that helpless. Besides, you have to take me with you.
Oh? And why is that?
Because if you don't, I'll tell the Rangers, and they'll be on you faster than you can say AWOL.
...Bloody Hell, Nym! Why do you want to leave so badly?
Because I think we can do a lot more good out there in the world than cooped up here in the Vale.
Omo rubs his eyes. Ah, burn me- fine. Please don't die on me. He scrapes his breakfast into another small wooden bowl and begins eating.
Grand- what equipment do you have? We don't want to put off our departure any later than we must.
Mmm... well, I've got some camping equipment, as you can see, and the know-how to make do with what we can't carry. My good hatchet is in the tent, and my bedroll- you'll have to get your own, unless you like sleeping on rocks. Mm. Oh, and my staff.
Your staff?
Yeah, hang on.
Setting aside his breakfast, Omo unties a few ropes and the tent collapses in a heap. You realize that the staff Omo draws forth was being used to support the frame, but you're too distracted by the staff itself to give the tent's construction more thought. The staff is nearly nine feet long, made of a smooth, hard, dark wood you do not recognize. The ends are bound in a brass sleeve etched with a stylized leaf pattern. Omo beams at you.
Pretty sweet, huh? Standard issue for Elven Rangers. The wood is specially grown by the Mages to be extremely hard and durable- the brass really doesn't add much other than appearance, and making the ends a bit heavier.
Very impressive! Alright, so you've got a weapon and a hatchet- got any rope?
What do you think I was holding the tent up with? I've got a fifty foot coil.
Great! How about healing herbs- poultices and the like?
I've got nothing- healer's kits are expensive, and normally I just hit up a Life Mage if I'm feeling under the weather. Healing potions are expensive too, so those are out. If it comes down to it I can try to gather some herbs in the wild, but if it's anything serious we'll be better off finding a qualified healer.
Well, that cuts down on my shopping list a bit.
Omo goes back to his breakfast. So, what now?
Good question. Every hour you delay could cost you when trying to escape the Vale. You could hit up the Caravan to finish your supplies and find out more world news, especially as regards the Necromancer(s). You could also try to get formal permission to depart from the Elders, if they can find the time to speak with you- you'll be able to find out their official position on the Necromancer problem that way, at least. Time is ticking.
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: fergus on January 09, 2012, 12:42:54 am
Post by: Cellmonk on January 09, 2012, 12:54:22 am
Post by: monk12 on January 09, 2012, 12:55:10 am
The elders probably won't give permission and if they don't we will lose any chance of escape. We don't need any more supplies and we can gather news some place less likely to trap us, so we should probably just leave. Also, what do we gain XP from? Just necromancy?
Yeah, you gain XP for Necromancy spells, not the general ones. I'm also not going to grant you XP for doing the same thing over and over- you only got 1 XP for raising those minnows even though you cast the spell twice, for instance. You also gain a little XP for surviving combat. Omo gains XP for using his Ranger abilities and gets more XP from combat than you do.
Post by: lockman766 on January 09, 2012, 02:49:25 am
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 09, 2012, 08:13:13 am
I honestly don't think waiting, even a day, would be that big a deal - the elves seem like a contemplative group. Deliberate, and slow to act - any IMMEDIATE preparations they would engage in have probably already happened. Waiting a bit longer and gathering some valuable information could be incredibly important, especially if we could get some idea of what we'd be up against for our escape attempt.
Also, we want to find and talk to Elana before we leave. Tell her we'll be asking to leave, despite the wars, and gauge he response. See if we can get any expensive stuff out of her, at least. Ask what she knows.
Try for common worries for nonsuspicious questions -> Why does every necromancer that shows up want to conquer the world or build a huge army? Why are there two at once? What does Elana know about them and their creations that might keep us safe if we encounter them?
Also, on Golems:
For those pushing them, how the FUCK are golems more moral than the undead? Golems require us to kill someone, or at least steal a part of their vital spirit, in order to be created. Our golems probably did not work because we used a goddamn tree spirit which only knows how to be a tree, after all (though it may not be the only cause). It seems, so far, like a distinctly less than zero sum game - We get a lot less vitality than the thing we targeted gives, after all. Of course... we can steal vitality from the undead, it seems like, but can we make golems out of that? It doesn't seem like we've actually tried. And have we tried to re-raise something we've stolen vitality from? It may be that necromancy re-awakens the soul, and steal vitality tears it away, making those corpses we've stolen vitality from, like, ULTRAdead.
We don't know nearly enough to know if golems are the more moral choice here - all we know right now is that we need to steal life force from the living or unliving to create then. They may make for better PR, but that's the extent of it.
Post by: Grek on January 09, 2012, 09:16:25 am
-Plant/Animal zombie
-Golem/willing demihuman zombie
-Unwilling demihuman zombie
-A vampire or something
-Undead Whooping AIDS
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 09, 2012, 10:47:25 am
This is, in fact, why I wanted to know if the fish we ate had spoiled at all despite spending most of a day wet and warm. If undeath protects against rot, that's good evidence for the value we could provide as a healer, since infection is like THE leading cause of death in most places.
At the very least we could use a blast of necromantic energy to sterilize water or transfer health directly from one person to another as a life saving emergency measure.
Speaking of which, we need to figure out EXACTLY how much damage steal vitality causes, compared to the vitality we get from it (and how much we can control that). It would be nice to know if we can offer up some of our own vitality to Omo in a life or death situation, or let him do the same. But that's based on it not doing enough damage to outright kill us.
Post by: Grek on January 09, 2012, 11:07:13 am
Steal Vitality takes 6 vitality from the target and gives us 2 vitality to play with. We have 10 vitality, Omo has 13. We know this already.
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 09, 2012, 11:22:07 am
How sure are we that this is the case?
Actually, reviewing that information would probably be a good idea - how do we know that steal vitality takes 6hp from a target?
Post by: lockman766 on January 09, 2012, 02:35:22 pm
We can't do death blasts. When we tried to blast something with vitality, it created Rocky, the undead rock.Besides I'm sure there will be more than enough enemies(bandits highwaymen ect.), and undead along the way to keep our golems charged.
Steal Vitality takes 6 vitality from the target and gives us 2 vitality to play with. We have 10 vitality, Omo has 13. We know this already.
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 09, 2012, 03:30:24 pm
We don't know the details of how the Steal Vitality spell works, and this will likely give us more info about its implementation: (Note that most of these experiments should work, if the blighted former elven homeland is what I think it is)
Requirements: Bag of fresh vegetable matter from various plants. Some sort of branch. Some sort of crayfish equivalent (maybe)
Step one:
Attempt to steal vitality from a single vegetable in the first bag. Success is assumed, and the amount of vitality retrieved would likely be minimal.
Step two:
Now attempt to steal vitality from the BAG of stuff. Basically, unfocus your attempt. Treat it as a single mass of living material, and try to Steal Vitality from all of it. Hopefully, this works. If it doesn't, move on to Step two-b, otherwise move on to step three.
Step two-b:
Target a larger area. Perhaps a field of grass. Try to achieve a very large coverage. Do we still get the same amount of vitality? Does it still cost the same? If it works, move on to step two-c, otherwise move on to step three.
Step two-c:
Put a crayfish equivalent in a bunch of grass. Stea Vitality on the area again. Does the crayfish survive, but with less vitality? In essence, does an area blast deal the same overall amount of damage, but distributed amongst it's target?
Step three:
Now try this in reverse. Focus that shit. Take our large branch (a bush would also do). Attempt to Steal Vitality from only a portion of it, but not the whole thing. If this doesn't work, did the tree it was connected to get any vitality drained? If this doesn't work and the branch source us unhindered, repeat, but while holding the severed branch against the tree.
Step four:
Attempt to steal LESS vitality, perhaps from a portion of it only. Exactly how focused can we get this?
Step five:
Rather than trying to steal a ball of energy, try to channel vitality directly into a golem - create a thread, a pump of some sort, rather than plucking it out.
Post by: lockman766 on January 09, 2012, 04:07:40 pm
Idea for an experiment:We should check to see if the vitality is more than 6 otherwise it won't help anything. However trying to draw less would be beneficial.
We don't know the details of how the Steal Vitality spell works, and this will likely give us more info about its implementation: (Note that most of these experiments should work, if the blighted former elven homeland is what I think it is)
Requirements: Bag of fresh vegetable matter from various plants. Some sort of branch. Some sort of crayfish equivalent (maybe)
Step one:
Attempt to steal vitality from a single vegetable in the first bag. Success is assumed, and the amount of vitality retrieved would likely be minimal.
Step two:
Now attempt to steal vitality from the BAG of stuff. Basically, unfocus your attempt. Treat it as a single mass of living material, and try to Steal Vitality from all of it. Hopefully, this works. If it doesn't, move on to Step two-b, otherwise move on to step three.
Step two-b:
Target a larger area. Perhaps a field of grass. Try to achieve a very large coverage. Do we still get the same amount of vitality? Does it still cost the same? If it works, move on to step two-c, otherwise move on to step three.
Step two-c:
Put a crayfish equivalent in a bunch of grass. Stea Vitality on the area again. Does the crayfish survive, but with less vitality? In essence, does an area blast deal the same overall amount of damage, but distributed amongst it's target?
Step three:
Now try this in reverse. Focus that shit. Take our large branch (a bush would also do). Attempt to Steal Vitality from only a portion of it, but not the whole thing. If this doesn't work, did the tree it was connected to get any vitality drained? If this doesn't work and the branch source us unhindered, repeat, but while holding the severed branch against the tree.
Step four:
Attempt to steal LESS vitality, perhaps from a portion of it only. Exactly how focused can we get this?
Step five:
Rather than trying to steal a ball of energy, try to channel vitality directly into a golem - create a thread, a pump of some sort, rather than plucking it out.
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 09, 2012, 04:28:25 pm
Post by: lockman766 on January 09, 2012, 04:35:08 pm
If we can spread the vitality loss across a group of things we are more likely to be able to draw more with minimal effects on each individual - or, potentially, to kill people faster if we can draw more. Getting an idea of area of effect would be useful even without that, though.okay I see your point I think we should make this research top priority.
Post by: adwarf on January 09, 2012, 04:39:06 pm
Post by: lockman766 on January 09, 2012, 04:54:22 pm
I think first we should perfect drawing Vitality in a 1:1 ratio before that.Yeah maybe I jumped the gun.
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 09, 2012, 04:55:24 pm
It may be the numbers for an area effect version differ quite a bit, and we've got no other proposals for increasing efficiency.
Post by: monk12 on January 09, 2012, 09:21:45 pm
We know that /happened/, yes. But what are the details?
How sure are we that this is the case?
Actually, reviewing that information would probably be a good idea - how do we know that steal vitality takes 6hp from a target?
The "up to 6 1/3 back" rule is based on observing a healthy tree with Sense Vitality, Stealing Vitality and comparing the amount of Vitality the tree lost and the amount of Vitality you sucked out in usable form. Which is not to say this is exactly how the spell works.
I will say that the information in that Spells spoiler is based purely upon your observations, and is not necessarily a "this is how it works" statement. For example, Raise Zombie takes an unknown amount of Vitality, but waaaaaay back in update 1 it was assumed that the spell took 2 Mana, because that's what you observed in your first casting.
Carry on then!
Post by: lockman766 on January 10, 2012, 12:10:56 am
Post by: fergus on January 10, 2012, 12:34:18 am
As I was sitting on my throne contemplating necromancy I realized we still haven't figured out what the third school of necromancy is.What?
Post by: Cellmonk on January 10, 2012, 12:37:33 am
I think I need someone to explain this to me too.As I was sitting on my throne contemplating necromancy I realized we still haven't figured out what the third school of necromancy is.What?
Post by: lockman766 on January 10, 2012, 12:40:57 am
Life magic has three schools as we recently found out they have two beneficial schools, and one harmful school. If my theory is correct Necromancy will have two harmful schools ,and one beneficial school.I think I need someone to explain this to me too.As I was sitting on my throne contemplating necromancy I realized we still haven't figured out what the third school of necromancy is.What?
Post by: adwarf on January 10, 2012, 12:43:44 am
Post by: lockman766 on January 10, 2012, 12:45:27 am
o.O Genius ! We must establish a school oflolDOOM!!!... errr I mean ... umm ... oh thats right Niceromancy
Post by: lockman766 on January 10, 2012, 04:05:35 pm
As I was sitting on my throne contemplating necromancy I realized we still haven't figured out what the third school of necromancy is.I just realized I might not have been to clear what I meant by schools of magic. I meant disciplines. life magic has healing, growth, and imbalance. So far we know necromancy has zombie, and golem so if i'm right our third discipline will be healing.
Post by: Elvisdogs on January 10, 2012, 04:43:38 pm
Post by: lockman766 on January 10, 2012, 04:49:49 pm
Has anyone else noticed that no matter what, other necromancers seem to go on bloody rampages and world conquering sprees? Could there possibly a reason for this other than plot advancement? Will we come to a point where we become a meglomaniac?Power corrupts you have to have willpower to prevent it. Hopefully we have the willpower to change the stigma of necromancy.
Post by: Ochita on January 10, 2012, 04:52:31 pm
We are just an elf who is now a necromancer, and we are exploring the world to learn more about it or so.
Anyway, its not like we have to be evil.
Post by: lockman766 on January 10, 2012, 05:02:48 pm
Woah. There is nothing that has shown that power corrupts.Exactly, we choose not our power.
We are just an elf who is now a necromancer, and we are exploring the world to learn more about it or so.
Anyway, its not like we have to be evil.
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 10, 2012, 05:17:56 pm
And what town or city would want to publicize finding a necromancer in their midst?
In the days of old, there were apparently non-evil necromancers, so I don't think it's likely to be anything but a combination of power+fear+confirmation bias, and they figure once they've done what they need to survive well, fuck, they might as well enjoy themselves until they get taken down.
Post by: lockman766 on January 10, 2012, 05:28:27 pm
The fact that a Necromancer has to conquer or be killed might have something to do with it, too. We don't even know for sure how many are killed quietly or while trying to do the right thing, but we DO know necromancers are dealt with, severely.So necromancers might be forced into conquest? Interesting we need to find other necromancers in hiding maybe we can gather friends, and other like minded necros. We cannot change the world on our own we'll need help.
And what town or city would want to publicize finding a necromancer in their midst?
In the days of old, there were apparently non-evil necromancers, so I don't think it's likely to be anything but a combination of power+fear+confirmation bias, and they figure once they've done what they need to survive well, fuck, they might as well enjoy themselves until they get taken down.
Post by: Ochita on January 10, 2012, 05:30:55 pm
Who said anything about changing the world? I think we're just exploring our own skills and such, and our general reaction to the news shows that we don't want to change the world.
We're just curious in my eyes.
Post by: lockman766 on January 10, 2012, 05:35:29 pm
...That may be, but the story might force us to take a proactive approach...Then again your right at the moment were just curious...More importantly we need to master our skills first maybe we need to get a bit more understanding.
Who said anything about changing the world? I think we're just exploring our own skills and such, and our general reaction to the news shows that we don't want to change the world.
We're just curious in my eyes.
Post by: Rockowl on January 10, 2012, 05:46:49 pm
2 Raise trees you kill as undead corpse-eating ents which double as corpse storage and walking buildings/laboratories.
3 ??
4. banhamemr 4 being munchkeen!!!!!!!!!1one FUN!!
---
On a more serious note, would it be possible to dual-class something fighter-ish? Plate armor and longsword plus necromantic powers equal fun, but anything to improve our combat skills would be a plus since we can't use our dark arts in public. If we'd have to fight something with Mr. Thunderjaw alongside us we'd have to sacrifice our secret. That, or total party kill.
EDIT: Correction, risk getting ourselves or Omo get in a tricky situation.
Post by: lockman766 on January 10, 2012, 05:51:00 pm
1. duel class lumberjack plzzz!1We could ask Omo to train us.
2 Raise trees you kill as undead corpse-eating ents which double as corpse storage and walking buildings/laboratories.
3 ??
4. banhamemr 4 being munchkeen!!!!!!!!!1one FUN!!
---
On a more serious note, would it be possible to dual-class something fighter-ish? Plate armor and longsword plus necromantic powers equal fun, but anything to improve our combat skills would be a plus since we can't use our dark arts in public. If we'd have to fight something with Mr. Thunderjaw alongside us we'd have to sacrifice our secret. That, or total party kill.
EDIT: Correction, risk getting ourselves or Omo get in a tricky situation.
Post by: Cellmonk on January 10, 2012, 07:23:58 pm
We SHOULD ask1. duel class lumberjack plzzz!1We could ask Omo to train us.
2 Raise trees you kill as undead corpse-eating ents which double as corpse storage and walking buildings/laboratories.
3 ??
4. banhamemr 4 being munchkeen!!!!!!!!!1one FUN!!
---
On a more serious note, would it be possible to dual-class something fighter-ish? Plate armor and longsword plus necromantic powers equal fun, but anything to improve our combat skills would be a plus since we can't use our dark arts in public. If we'd have to fight something with Mr. Thunderjaw alongside us we'd have to sacrifice our secret. That, or total party kill.
EDIT: Correction, risk getting ourselves or Omo get in a tricky situation.
Post by: lockman766 on January 10, 2012, 07:28:21 pm
I approve this message.We SHOULD ask1. duel class lumberjack plzzz!1We could ask Omo to train us.
2 Raise trees you kill as undead corpse-eating ents which double as corpse storage and walking buildings/laboratories.
3 ??
4. banhamemr 4 being munchkeen!!!!!!!!!1one FUN!!
---
On a more serious note, would it be possible to dual-class something fighter-ish? Plate armor and longsword plus necromantic powers equal fun, but anything to improve our combat skills would be a plus since we can't use our dark arts in public. If we'd have to fight something with Mr. Thunderjaw alongside us we'd have to sacrifice our secret. That, or total party kill.
EDIT: Correction, risk getting ourselves or Omo get in a tricky situation.OmoBear Grills to teach us what we need to know to survive in the wild. On the trail, he can spar with us (we can use a normal tree limb) and possibly teach us some things about finding food, water, and shelter in wilderness, and navigating over land. He might even tell us some things about the patrol tactics of the rangers, which might help us if we every find ourselves hiding from them.
Post by: RAM on January 10, 2012, 07:39:11 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 10, 2012, 07:59:34 pm
I mean, that seems pretty straightfoward with no overlap.
And I am totally ready for the next updoot.
Post by: lockman766 on January 10, 2012, 09:02:08 pm
Aren't the three schools Undead, Golems, and Life-stealing?life stealing is the building block of the undead, and golem schools there for it's more of a cantrif that all necromancers learn from the beginning rather than an individual school to itself.
I mean, that seems pretty straightfoward with no overlap.
And I am totally ready for the next updoot.
P.S. I can't wait either.
Post by: joemoben on January 10, 2012, 10:13:22 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 10, 2012, 11:14:22 pm
If Elana is here, take Omo to meet with her - either she'll want to come, or she might be willing to help us out. Ask her advice on arguments we can make to the council that might convince them to let us go, and tell her of our plans to leave, but NOT that we'll be sneaking out if the council looks unlikely to accept.
Talk to Omo about how exactly we're going to make our escape. Ask him if he knows how to make mana potions, and if he does not if he thinks it might be worth staying an extra day to get our friend to teach the two of us. Why, exactly, does every hour make it more difficult? I guess that's the biggest question. Would they EXPECT people to be slipping away at this sort of time? If there's some good reason for it, don't bother with this part.
Post by: fergus on January 10, 2012, 11:16:21 pm
Post by: lockman766 on January 10, 2012, 11:23:21 pm
Post by: Cellmonk on January 10, 2012, 11:29:31 pm
I'm torn between going right away, and waiting for the council :(.
I'm leaning towards waiting for more information, and leaving in as organized a manner as possible. We should ask Omo Grylls what his plan was, and what supplies we should need. Ask him what news he has on the necromancers. Also go around town, asking about the necromancer and his army. See if you can gather as much info as possible. Ask someone about the making of mana potions. We need to find that out.
As far as we've seen, elves, though magical, are not psychic. we don't need to be exceedingly paranoid.
Post by: fergus on January 10, 2012, 11:40:14 pm
We don't need to be exceedingly paranoid.But we should be, just in case.
Post by: lockman766 on January 11, 2012, 01:10:13 am
Post by: Shades on January 11, 2012, 04:47:27 am
waiting for the council
Solved for you :)
As far as we've seen, elves, though magical, are not psychic. we don't need to be exceedingly paranoid.
People think we are paranoid? we better do something about it or they'll guess we are hiding something ...
Post by: joemoben on January 11, 2012, 10:42:17 am
Post by: Shades on January 11, 2012, 11:07:45 am
Once we do abstain from being here, we need to start practicing up a storm. First of all to level up, and to catch up to the other necros. They will have a HUGE head start on us and at one point we are gonna end up in a boss confrontation. Also we should use dead bodies as warriors, once we get to this point. While i get the moral problems, we have bigger ones. Namely 2 read it 2 rather large zombie armys to deal with.
We have two advantages on them though; Firstly we are an elf and as such seem to have a higher level of magic than other races assuming this leads to us being potentially stronger than the other necromancers should help us. Secondly, and more importantly, noone knows about us which will allow us to choose when and how we confront them.
There is also a good chance they will end up focused on each other as neither information so far implies they are likely to work together.
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 11, 2012, 11:10:41 am
Among the questions we should ask is HOW they became so powerful - how did someone not get close enough to just kill them already?
Post by: EveryZig on January 11, 2012, 06:03:46 pm
Or getting put down by the armies messing against them, or assassinated.We don't know how far you can control undead from. They could have stealthily built up a force of zombies, then locked them self in a nearby cellar while their undead assaulted the town. Nobody would know where to look, and if they did a heavy door would delay them long enough for zombie guards to catch up with them.
Among the questions we should ask is HOW they became so powerful - how did someone not get close enough to just kill them already?
Hrm. We will have to search for a way to isolate one of our undead from our perception. We will need to experiment with controlling a hostile undead at some point, and we can't let the other necromancers know we are doing this.
Post by: joemoben on January 11, 2012, 06:34:20 pm
Post by: fergus on January 11, 2012, 06:42:16 pm
Another experiment that would be useful would be to check if we could Command another necromancers undead. Also, Monk are there active gods in this one?Maybe we could go to that cursed place I've forgotten the name of and try to command one of the undead there. Should be easier since there's no one controlling them.
Post by: Cellmonk on January 11, 2012, 06:44:31 pm
Another experiment that would be useful would be to check if we could Command another necromancers undead. Also, Monk are there active gods in this one?I have a feeling we'll need to experiment to find out if there are active gods, amirite? At least it seems like that should continue to be an unknown. We might ask around at some point, to get an idea of the religions of the region. The elves so far have seemed pretty secular to me. They treat the magic like a science.
If you could let us know about what our character knows about religions in the vale and outside, monk, that might be interesting.
Post by: Elvisdogs on January 11, 2012, 06:57:30 pm
Post by: joemoben on January 11, 2012, 07:05:07 pm
And also, are the undead self powered autonomous beings? Or are they under a sort of bond with the necromancer? Can they continue to exist if their creator were to die?Let's not test this one on ourselves for quite some time. Also, if there are gods, us necros are probably going to fall under an evil one. Anyone thinking about becoming liches? :D
Post by: Cellmonk on January 11, 2012, 07:09:58 pm
And also, are the undead self powered autonomous beings? Or are they under a sort of bond with the necromancer? Can they continue to exist if their creator were to die?Let's not test this one on ourselves for quite some time. Also, if there are gods, we are probably going to fall under an evil one. Anyone thinking about becoming liches? :D
I'd like to become a liche.
Post by: monk12 on January 11, 2012, 07:16:54 pm
Another experiment that would be useful would be to check if we could Command another necromancers undead. Also, Monk are there active gods in this one?
Short answer: Deities of various flavors are going concerns, but much less active than, say, Dungeons and Dragons- you know they exist, but what the extent of their power, influence, or plot significance is remains a mystery.
Longer answer: One of the tradeoffs for the Elven start choice (and its associated magicalness) is that you don't know much about the world at large- between the Elves' near brush with extinction (during which remembering how to farm and use magic at all was more pressing than preserving any Creation Mythos) and the Elven tendency to live in the present, You don't have that much knowledge on world religions.
You know that the Elves pay homage to Aye Valleymists, less a God than the guardian Spirit of the Walled Jungle (aka that forest you're walking around in.) It isn't so much worship as it is respect for a great Guardian of Life, but it's something. You know from listening to the merchants of the semiannual Caravan that Thrimesdur has a much more organized religious system, and that the cosmopolitan cities of the Jeweled Coast play host to a wide variety of theological beliefs and practices from across the world. You've got the vague idea that most religions advocate one of the Magical Faiths Pevo talked about a while back, but you aren't sure how accurate that is. What does that even mean, Magic is Magic and Faith is Faith, right? Something to look forward to.
Of slightly more immediate concern- Two in favor of leaving immediately, Two in favor of checking out the Caravan first for supplies and sticking around to hear the results of the Council (although I think lockman may be in the latter camp now.) Anywho, update will be up eventually. I'd say tomorrow, but every time I do say it something comes up and pushes it back another day or three :P
Post by: joemoben on January 11, 2012, 07:32:37 pm
Post by: Cellmonk on January 11, 2012, 08:06:02 pm
Hey! I've been saying stay for council and caravan monk! Y u no count me?
It is because you are a parrot. :P
Oh how i love to grab the punny stuff.
Post by: RAM on January 11, 2012, 09:12:26 pm
Then we will have a happy little commune where abandoned bodies are made useful again, ploughing the fields, standing guard, mining, (we may want silver golems to handle food preparation...) and all other menial tasks are removed fro society and we will be free to pursue benevolent and virtuous uses for necromancy for its rejoining with society at large!
Post by: joemoben on January 11, 2012, 09:18:31 pm
For that you die!......Polly want a cracker?Hey! I've been saying stay for council and caravan monk! Y u no count me?
It is because you are a parrot. :P
Oh how i love to grab the punny stuff.
Post by: Cellmonk on January 11, 2012, 09:26:24 pm
Also, we have not heard whether or not the other necros have golems. this could be a rather large boon to us if they don't.Why does this remind me of a joke Ronald Reagan once told?For that you die!......Polly want a cracker?Hey! I've been saying stay for council and caravan monk! Y u no count me?
It is because you are a parrot. :P
Oh how i love to grab the punny stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R22Cxa6lCpk
Post by: RAM on January 11, 2012, 09:40:17 pm
Combine zombiemancy and golemancy to create cyber-zombies!
Post by: EveryZig on January 11, 2012, 10:05:22 pm
Combine zombiemancy and golemancy to create cyber-zombies!Zomborgs?
Post by: fergus on January 11, 2012, 10:22:04 pm
For now, let's just focus on not dying.Combine zombiemancy and golemancy to create cyber-zombies!Zomborgs?
Post by: lockman766 on January 11, 2012, 10:31:37 pm
For now, let's just focus on not dying.Come on man were's your sense of foresight?
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 11, 2012, 10:40:55 pm
Post by: fergus on January 11, 2012, 10:55:06 pm
Technically my vote was checking out caravan and rumours and NOT waiting for the council (unless Omo fails to provide a good reason for us not to leave immediately, which we should talk to him about)As was mine.
Post by: Cellmonk on January 11, 2012, 11:37:04 pm
As was mine. though if the rumors give reason to wait for the council, then we should wait longer. but we need info.Technically my vote was checking out caravan and rumours and NOT waiting for the council (unless Omo fails to provide a good reason for us not to leave immediately, which we should talk to him about)As was mine.
Post by: kopout on January 11, 2012, 11:58:08 pm
Post by: joemoben on January 12, 2012, 12:24:56 am
Post by: lockman766 on January 13, 2012, 07:14:37 pm
Post by: Cellmonk on January 13, 2012, 07:44:21 pm
Was anyone actually suggesting asking them if we could still leave? I personally don't remember that and I figured it would be good to learn how they combat our kind.
Agreed. I personally assumed that council might hold some information.
Post by: EveryZig on January 13, 2012, 11:24:43 pm
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 14, 2012, 12:19:34 am
Knowledge is power, we should try to get as much information as possible before leaving.
Post by: Repulsion on January 14, 2012, 01:03:00 am
If we were allowed to train in the open, things would become much easier. So, I support the proposition to attempt to eventually tell Omo of our powers, and hope he doesn't throw too much of a fit.
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 14, 2012, 01:08:46 am
It is clear to us that we should attempt to greatly increase the speed of our learning. If one enemy necromancer has already united the pirate lords, and the other controlling a giant undead army... well, we pale in comparison. We'll have to train, attempt it to be somewhat secret, for when we will inevitably face another necromancer.Secrecy is our best friend for the moment, in all respects. We shouldn't tell him until we are sure that we can handle him if he does freak out, or we have no other choice. Revealing ourselves to anyone right now is too risky.
If we were allowed to train in the open, things would become much easier. So, I support the proposition to attempt to eventually tell Omo of our powers, and hope he doesn't throw too much of a fit.
Post by: lockman766 on January 14, 2012, 01:53:39 am
I agree with Phantom.It is clear to us that we should attempt to greatly increase the speed of our learning. If one enemy necromancer has already united the pirate lords, and the other controlling a giant undead army... well, we pale in comparison. We'll have to train, attempt it to be somewhat secret, for when we will inevitably face another necromancer.Secrecy is our best friend for the moment, in all respects. We shouldn't tell him until we are sure that we can handle him if he does freak out, or we have no other choice. Revealing ourselves to anyone right now is too risky.
If we were allowed to train in the open, things would become much easier. So, I support the proposition to attempt to eventually tell Omo of our powers, and hope he doesn't throw too much of a fit.
Post by: Rockowl on January 14, 2012, 06:05:07 pm
Oh, and,
*elevator music*
Best. Elevator music. Ever. (http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/203419)
Post by: monk12 on January 14, 2012, 11:33:12 pm
As was mine. though if the rumors give reason to wait for the council, then we should wait longer. but we need info.Technically my vote was checking out caravan and rumours and NOT waiting for the council (unless Omo fails to provide a good reason for us not to leave immediately, which we should talk to him about)As was mine.
Omo shovels some eggs into his mouth. So, what now?
Well, I've got a couple odds and ends to buy, and I'd like to hear about these Necromancers first-hand. How about I go take care of that, while you finish eating and pack up- we'll meet back here, alright?
Sounds like a plan- don't take all day though.
Shouldering your pack, you leave Omo to his meal and head deeper into the Fair. It is early, but there is already a hustle and bustle as elves move about. Many of them are going to the Caravan themselves, hoping to beat the crush. Some elves are getting the day's celebration started early, and music and song drifts through the trees.
After a few minutes of walking, you emerge from the forest into a massive clearing, and get your first sight of the Fair. The merchants travel in vehicles that are less wagons than miniature houses on wheels. Most of them are painted white, but splashes of garish color are evident throughout the assembly. Each wagon is drawn up a bit apart from the others, and is surrounded by tables and tents holding the merchant's wares. The net effect is that each wagon (or small group of wagons) operates as an island in a sea of elves, competing with one another to draw the largest crowds. Despite the early hour, many elves are already browsing the wares, and there is a general cacophony of feverish haggling, merchants advertising their wares, bellows of strange animals and the low roar of conversation and music associated with a massive group of elves.
You join the mob, flowing with the crowd from stall to booth to tent, admiring the exotic wares. Fine silks from Dwarven lands are sold at a premium, as are strange spices and herbs from the Black Swamps. One booth has a wide variety of weaponry from across the world, halberds and enormous longbows from Thrimesdur hanging alongside Dwarf-made silver warhammers and steel battleaxes. A loud argument erupts between a merchant selling a fine glass figurine and the elf who (apparently) feels the Emerald dye he is offering is more than worth the cost.
But enough sightseeing- you're here for business! A bit of wheeling and dealing later sees you in the possession of 2 days of Trail Rations, your own Bedroll, 4 sheets of Parchment, 10 bits of charcoal and a plain (but sturdy) Scroll Case, all for a grand total of 3 silver and 9 copper, leaving you with 2.7 silver left over.
As you shop, you also keep your ears peeled for news of the outside world- the talk of the Caravan is all about the Thrimesdur Necromancer. After talking with a dozen merchants, laborers, and caravan guards, you learn that although few agree on his origins, all agree that Curo Nightroars first came onto the world stage when he took two dozen zombies armed with rusted old swords, pitchforks, and torches, and razed a small village in the middle of the night, shortly before the Winter Solstice. When the local Baron received word from the survivors, he sent messengers to his neighbors and rode forth to squash him- when his neighbors arrived to help, they were confronted by a small army of the undead led by the bloated corpse of the Baron. They were overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of the undead, and those who did not flee were slain.
As winter grew colder and harder, the various barons and counts who mustered armies were unable to march in the ice and muck- a problem that Nightroars did not suffer. He sacked several more towns before he turned his growing horde against the encamped nobility- reports indicate that they were overcome by the great number of undead as well as by crippling morale problems. By the time the Spring thaw arrived, Nightroars had razed a number of small cities on his march north from the coast. He was confronted by the Duke of Mesmmori, the son of the Emperor, commanding the Imperial Army- somehow, even lacking a distinct numerical advantage, Nightroars crushed the Imperial forces and added their corpses to his own horde.
Few who come into contact with Curo Nightroars or his undead army live to tell the tale, and with no organized resistance there is no telling which way he has gone. The popular belief is that he has marched to the Capital to dethrone the Emperor himself- others say that he is marching towards the rich cities of the Great River, and a few insist he is building himself a city of his own, the seat of a new Undead Empire.
When you redirect conversation towards the other Necromancer, you receive much less information. Nobody knows his name, only referring to him as the Pirate King. His existence has been speculated at for a few years now, as pirate raids became more coordinated and effective. He was not known to be a Necromancer until this winter, when a band of skeletons proved instrumental in a daring pirate raid that stole a dozen warships while they lay at harbor. Nobody knows his agenda or home base, but he apparently has allies among the living Pirate Lords as well a prominent band of Lizardfolk mercenaries.
Apart from that, you don't get much more than Omo gave you in his summary- banditry is rampant the world over, the monstrous races are increasingly aggressive, evil creatures of the night are arising, so on and so forth. The Caravan folk are clearly nervous about all of it, the listening elves less so- it all feels rather removed from the quiet simplicity of life in the Vale. With your new items carefully stowed away, you begin to pick your way back through the crowd, back to Omo. As you reach the edge of the Caravan, however, you catch a flash of purple out the corner of your eye. Turning, you face a low tent filled with odd statues, figurines, and books.
Against the back wall, an onyx medallion burns with Necromantic energy.
You hesitate, then duck inside. The dim interior is laden with a great many strange objects, most of them bearing the weight of ages. One other elf is examining a row of uncut gemstones on a table, and a youth gleefully inspects the skull of an exotic beast. The tent is otherwise empty, apart from the proprietor, a fat, greasy man with a scraggly beard.
Hello, hello, welcome to my shop! What catches your eye, milady elf? If it isn't in this tent, it is not worth having!
I'm sure. Actually, I was wondering about that medallion- it bears a strange engraving.
Yes indeed, yes indeed- I bought this piece from an associate of mine, who bought it from a lieutenant in the Imperial Army who, so the story goes, found it in the rubble he helped make of a goblin village.
As he speaks, the merchant lowers the medallion from its hook. Up close, it appears to have an engraving of two ravens with their talons entwined, inscribed in a neat circle. The etching appears to be inlaid with an unknown bluish metal, giving the medallion a smooth, reflective surface. To your Necromantic Sight, the eyes of the ravens blaze, as does the circle they are inscribed in. As he holds it up for your inspection, the air almost seems to pulse between you and it- or so it seems, as neither the proprietor nor the other elf take any notice.
A goblin village, you say? Surely such craftsmanship is beyond them!
I agree with you wholeheartedly, milady, and it is my contention that this is a relic of ages past. It looks dwarf-made to my eyes. A fine people, the dwarves, and fine crafts they make! When my suppositions are confirmed by the artisans of the Jeweled Coast, I'll make quite a handsome profit selling it!
I see. And how much are you expecting to sell it for?
I hope for the world, but for its obvious beauty and age alone the piece is worth a hundred gold!
The merchant puts the medallion back on its hook, and tries to interest you in a vial of perfume- you humor him to deflect suspicion, but your mind is whirling. If that medallion is dwarf made, then the sky is green- dwarves are given to angles and hard lines, and the engraving is almost entirely composed of curves, spirals and circles. Whoever made it, you'd wager anything that a Necromancer came into contact with it at some point. Could this be one of the Artifacts of Power that Ari Wetdawn alluded to, but for Necromancers?
What to do now? You can still sense the medallion, even when not looking at it, and it seems to beckon with a promise of power. But how could you get it? You can't afford a tenth of his asking price! Perhaps it would be best to try and force the medallion from your thoughts, and just leave as planned. Although you haven't seen Elana, or anyone else you know yet for that matter...
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: Repulsion on January 14, 2012, 11:42:14 pm
It might not be too difficult to steal it, but the man might have special guards around it, as well.
Overall, scout around a bit more, see if you can spot any weaknesses, but also be careful of the special object. Who knows what it does.
Post by: Elvisdogs on January 15, 2012, 12:02:19 am
Post by: RAM on January 15, 2012, 12:24:15 am
For the moment I would recommend completing any other business first and attending to the artefact when departure is otherwise immediate...
Post by: fergus on January 15, 2012, 12:29:36 am
Well we are a hot elf.Since when? Anyway, I doubt he will fall for that over something so valuable.
For the moment I would recommend completing any other business first and attending to the artefact when departure is otherwise immediate...Definitely.
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 15, 2012, 12:33:14 am
Post by: Elvisdogs on January 15, 2012, 12:41:23 am
Well we are a hot elf.Since when? Anyway, I doubt he will fall for that over something so valuable.
Well we are an elf. I'm just assuming by every elven racial stereotype that elves look good.
Post by: Grek on January 15, 2012, 01:09:15 am
The first thing to note is that the medallion is almost certainly not worth 100 gold. The merchant doesn't know who made it, how old it is, where it's from or even that it's magical. He's clearly bluffing. Chances are we can talk the price down quite a bit if we try. The second thing to note is that we have a good way to make money: Mana potions. If we get Pevo to teach us how to make these, and he's already agreed to do so, we can raise the money to buy the medallion legitimately without anyone wondering why we were desperate enough to steal it.
At this point, you're probably asking yourself, "Isn't the merchant going to leave before we can get the money for the medallion?" The answer to this is no. Why? Because we're going to go with the merchant, that's why! After we learn to make mana potions, we can go to the merchant (who's name we should learn, by the way) and ask him to sneak us out of the Vale in exchange for us coming with him and brewing valuable mana potions for him to sell. We can even invite Omo along on our adventure, if we think he'd be up for it.
So, here's the plan: Ask the merchant's name and if he'd be willing to meet us back here tonight, after his shop's closed down for the night, to discuss a business deal. Then we go learn to make mana potions. Once we're done, go visit Elana, let Omo know that we're going to crash at our mother's tonight in order to escape his snoring and then meet up the merchant and offer him the deal. If he accepts, we're golden. If not, we can always try one of those other plans.
Post by: fergus on January 15, 2012, 01:16:27 am
Seconded.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: lockman766 on January 15, 2012, 01:36:11 am
Thirded.Seconded.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Elvisdogs on January 15, 2012, 01:45:12 am
Thirded.Seconded.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quaded
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 15, 2012, 08:09:20 am
QuintedThirded.Seconded.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quaded
Elvisdogs was probably referring to a comment that Omo made at the end of this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=96692.msg2848344#msg2848344) update.Well we are a hot elf.Since when? Anyway, I doubt he will fall for that over something so valuable.
Well we are an elf. I'm just assuming by every elven racial stereotype that elves look good.
Post by: Koliup on January 15, 2012, 05:08:39 pm
Post by: lockman766 on January 15, 2012, 05:39:00 pm
Or we could send in a zombie or skeleton to wreck the place, and another to steal the amulet. A third route is practicing ye olde necromancy, and seeing if we can coerce a spirit into getting it for us, or helping us get it.Have you read this story up to this point? Maybe you should.
Post by: Koliup on January 15, 2012, 09:57:09 pm
My apologies for desiring the quick route to hell. Though I do stand by the idea of using spirits.Or we could send in a zombie or skeleton to wreck the place, and another to steal the amulet. A third route is practicing ye olde necromancy, and seeing if we can coerce a spirit into getting it for us, or helping us get it.Have you read this story up to this point? Maybe you should.
Post by: monk12 on January 15, 2012, 10:10:36 pm
QuintedThirded.Seconded.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quaded
I will note that this plan will involve hanging around Yicelafo another week, and since the Caravan will be escorted out of the Vale under armed guard (led by your Father, no less) you'll probably need the approval of the Elders, or some other clever plan/workaround. This plan does have some rather obvious upsides, so I'll leave it to You to debate the advantages and demerits.
Elvisdogs was probably referring to a comment that Omo made at the end of this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=96692.msg2848344#msg2848344) update.Well we are a hot elf.Since when? Anyway, I doubt he will fall for that over something so valuable.
Well we are an elf. I'm just assuming by every elven racial stereotype that elves look good.
Omo's comment was less on your beauty, and more on The Most Common Superpower (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MostCommonSuperPower). As long as we're on the subject, however, I'll say that you're fairly average in appearance by Elf standards. Since elves are fair in appearance to begin with, and don't suffer much in the way of smallpox scars, acne, or any of the other blemishes associated with normal human/dwarf life, You are somewhere between Pretty and Beautiful in the eyes of the rest of the world.
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 15, 2012, 10:28:00 pm
We have no ability to call on spirits, as lockman said, read the entire thing first, or else you won't have a clue about what's going on, a large part of this game is the discovery of the rules, and of you don't know them, then you're going to be lost and your suggestions are going to be useless 9.7/10 times.My apologies for desiring the quick route to hell. Though I do stand by the idea of using spirits.Or we could send in a zombie or skeleton to wreck the place, and another to steal the amulet. A third route is practicing ye olde necromancy, and seeing if we can coerce a spirit into getting it for us, or helping us get it.Have you read this story up to this point? Maybe you should.
Hhhhm, I say for now, we learn how to make the potions, and see how long it takes to make them, if we can make enough to raise the money in a week or less I say we do so. If not, then we discuss other options, this amulet is probably the only sure chance that we'll get to get an artifact, and it would be extremely useful, but we shouldn't put ourselves at undue risk to get it, we can go on without it, but it would be immensely useful to get it.QuintedThirded.Seconded.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quaded
I will note that this plan will involve hanging around Yicelafo another week, and since the Caravan will be escorted out of the Vale under armed guard (led by your Father, no less) you'll probably need the approval of the Elders, or some other clever plan/workaround. This plan does have some rather obvious upsides, so I'll leave it to You to debate the advantages and demerits.
I figured as much.Elvisdogs was probably referring to a comment that Omo made at the end of this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=96692.msg2848344#msg2848344) update.Well we are a hot elf.Since when? Anyway, I doubt he will fall for that over something so valuable.
Well we are an elf. I'm just assuming by every elven racial stereotype that elves look good.
Omo's comment was less on your beauty, and more on The Most Common Superpower (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MostCommonSuperPower). As long as we're on the subject, however, I'll say that you're fairly average in appearance by Elf standards. Since elves are fair in appearance to begin with, and don't suffer much in the way of smallpox scars, acne, or any of the other blemishes associated with normal human/dwarf life, You are somewhere between Pretty and Beautiful in the eyes of the rest of the world.
Post by: lockman766 on January 15, 2012, 10:39:53 pm
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 15, 2012, 10:51:40 pm
Post by: Grek on January 15, 2012, 11:07:16 pm
*note that this is a metaphor, not an actual suggestion. If we vote for that, we should come up with a way better plan.
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 15, 2012, 11:17:46 pm
People know we are coming here to ask them about it. The most suspicious course of action would be NOT DOING IT. I don't see how we'd have any more trouble after asking than before - I very much doubt they're going to put us under guard for expressing interest, considering the support we've had, and we're doubtless going to gain valuable knowledge from it. And there's always a chance they might have a damn good reason to send us out - if there's really a potential of the elves getting involved in the wider world again, they might need someone to go out and do some scouting of some sort.
And if our father is leading the armed group escorting them out the vale, well - in that case, I have several additional plans that might work pretty well even if the council turns us down.
The biggest issue here will be convincing Omo - and honestly, if he wants to go on his own, I say we try to organize some sort of meetup with him and try our own plan first even if he won't stand for it. I am 100% confident we'll still be able to get out even after asking permission - after all, if we threaten to kill ourselves if the border patrols stop us, would they really, honestly try? Wouldn't the whole point of stopping us be for our own protection? And once we're outside the forest, it's not like they're going to follow us...
At this point, I say we return to Omo and start discussing potential ways to do this, and, again, ask why leaving NOW is in any way superior to waiting a couple days.
Post by: lockman766 on January 15, 2012, 11:55:13 pm
Honestly... I', beginning to look towards asking for council permission. Look at it like this:*sigh* alright let's give it a try.
People know we are coming here to ask them about it. The most suspicious course of action would be NOT DOING IT. I don't see how we'd have any more trouble after asking than before - I very much doubt they're going to put us under guard for expressing interest, considering the support we've had, and we're doubtless going to gain valuable knowledge from it. And there's always a chance they might have a damn good reason to send us out - if there's really a potential of the elves getting involved in the wider world again, they might need someone to go out and do some scouting of some sort.
And if our father is leading the armed group escorting them out the vale, well - in that case, I have several additional plans that might work pretty well even if the council turns us down.
The biggest issue here will be convincing Omo - and honestly, if he wants to go on his own, I say we try to organize some sort of meetup with him and try our own plan first even if he won't stand for it. I am 100% confident we'll still be able to get out even after asking permission - after all, if we threaten to kill ourselves if the border patrols stop us, would they really, honestly try? Wouldn't the whole point of stopping us be for our own protection? And once we're outside the forest, it's not like they're going to follow us...
At this point, I say we return to Omo and start discussing potential ways to do this, and, again, ask why leaving NOW is in any way superior to waiting a couple days.
Post by: lockman766 on January 15, 2012, 11:56:17 pm
Somehow I doubt a single mana potion will buy an [velociraptorairquotes]extremely rare dwarven artifact[/velociraptorairquotes]Then we make several.
Post by: K17U on January 16, 2012, 02:32:25 am
It might be best not to mention him at all, bearing in mind that he was basically planning on deserting. That's what it sounds like in this update (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=96692.msg2891410#msg2891410) anyway.
Post by: Shades on January 16, 2012, 04:40:19 am
Somehow I doubt a single mana potion will buy an [velociraptorairquotes]extremely rare dwarven artifact[/velociraptorairquotes]Then we make several.
At the very least we should spend a day learning how to make the damn things, the current events will probably make the council want more to learn this skill anyway.
We aren't in a rush to leave really, certainly not to the extent we need to worry. Better to be methodical about it and not make mistakes.
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 16, 2012, 10:55:26 am
Quote
It's probably worth considering that, even if we get permission to leave by the council, Omo probably won't.I agree. Although they might require us to have an escort, in which case we should put his name up for consideration (but certainly don't mention he was already planning to leave or deserting)
Assuming they don't just immediately turn us down. But seriously, talk to Omo about this stuff, he might have better ideas. And if he's super opposed to telling the council, he might be okay with our "sneak out separately and meet up elsewhere" plan.
Post by: EveryZig on January 16, 2012, 01:45:12 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 18, 2012, 12:33:50 am
Post by: monk12 on January 18, 2012, 08:41:51 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You disdainfully push the merchant's (admittedly fine) perfume bottles away from you, and lean in closer.
Actually, I hope to speak with you on another matter, mister...
My, where are my manners? Luki Revereorder, at your service.
Well, Mr. Revereorder, I've got something of a business proposition for you.
Luki straightens up, and quizzically asksOh do you now? What manner of proposition is this?
I'm not ready to divulge, since I must make some arrangements first. What do you say to meeting later tonight to discuss it?
Over dinner, say?
Ah... I've already got dinner arrangements, actually, so I'll have to meet you afterward.
Oh- well, alright then, but don't be too late. You elves throw a mighty fine shindig, and I won't be missing it because I was hanging around here all hours of the night.
No worries, Mr. Revereorder, I'll be timely. Good trading to you!
With that, you leave the tent, and hurry back to where you left Omo. You find him chatting idly with his drinking buddies from the night before- when he sees you, he makes his goodbyes and strides over.
So! Which way were you thinking of heading? It's probably less dangerous going towards Thrimesdur, but its mostly war over that way. Heading to the Jeweled Coast would be a tougher journey, but with much more interesting stuff at the end of it. Where'd that map get to...
Actually, slight change of plans- I've been speaking with a Caravan merchant, and I think I can get him to take us with him.
Eh? What brought this on? Not an hour ago you were bucking to leave ASAP!
Well...
Well, what? Do you tell him the truth- that you really want an amulet? How do you justify jeopardizing the journey for a trinket, without sounding frivolous or suspicious? You could try straight up lying- Omo trusts you, so you've got a fair shot to pull it off, but what do you say? Think fast!
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: lockman766 on January 18, 2012, 10:18:33 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 19, 2012, 12:13:30 am
As far as planning, telling him that's important too - and that we want to travel to the ancient elven homelands, if possible.
Fuck the amulet, really, those should be our priorities.
Post by: Cellmonk on January 19, 2012, 01:02:20 am
Well, since that's not the main reason I want to stay, explain the REST of our reasoning - We still need to ask him if HE can make mana potions, and then say Pevo offered to teach us. If Omo doesn't know how, we can skip that. Truth be told... we'd really like to speak to Elana and our parents before we leave.
As far as planning, telling him that's important too - and that we want to travel to the ancient elven homelands, if possible.
Fuck the amulet, really, those should be our priorities.
Agreed on all counts. especially the mana potion thing. though they seem rather worthless to us (due to intoxicating effect), they will be valuable trade goods. We need em bad.
Post by: lockman766 on January 19, 2012, 01:10:58 am
Post by: Cellmonk on January 19, 2012, 03:15:59 am
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 19, 2012, 07:14:52 am
I like how you call the evil wastes the elven homeland. It has a ring to it. 3 rings to it, in fact.Actually if I remember correctly the evil wastes are the former elven homeland, destroyed by catastrophe.
Post by: monk12 on January 19, 2012, 06:09:40 pm
Well, since that's not the main reason I want to stay, explain the REST of our reasoning - We still need to ask him if HE can make mana potions, and then say Pevo offered to teach us. If Omo doesn't know how, we can skip that. Truth be told... we'd really like to speak to Elana and our parents before we leave.
As far as planning, telling him that's important too - and that we want to travel to the ancient elven homelands, if possible.
Fuck the amulet, really, those should be our priorities.
Agreed on all counts. especially the mana potion thing. though they seem rather worthless to us (due to intoxicating effect), they will be valuable trade goods. We need em bad.
Eh? What brought this on? Not an hour ago you were bucking to leave ASAP!
Well, I've still got some things I'd like to learn first- like you said, I don't have many practical skills, so I need everything I can get. For instance, do you know how to make Mana Potions?
What? No, I don't have the Mana or patience for it.
Neither do I, but from what Pevo was telling me it sounds like an easy way to make a buck, and he's offered to teach me. Not to mention I haven't said any goodbyes yet, and we should probably do some more planning before we go.
So, what, you want to hang around Yicelafo another week? Ask the Elders for permission to leave the Vale?
That's Plan A, yeah- I'll be leaving one way or another, it just depends how creative I'll have to be.
*sigh* Alright, we'll try it your way. I just finished taking down the tent, too...
Which reminds me, you snore like an ox.
Oxen snore?
Well, you're both big, dumb, and stinky, so if you snore it stands to reason they snore as well.
Ouch! Spare me your rapier wit!
I will- I'll be staying at my mother's home in the city.
Fair enough- have you told your mother you're leaving yet?
Well, I wrote her a letter a few days ago, so she should have gotten that by now.
I see. Well, if she throws you out, I've got a nice warm tent out here for ya.
Thanks. I'll see you around, I'm gonna see who all made it out to the Fair today.
Keep me in the loop, alright?
So, here's the plan: Ask the merchant's name and if he'd be willing to meet us back here tonight, after his shop's closed down for the night, to discuss a business deal. Then we go learn to make mana potions. Once we're done, go visit Elana, let Omo know that we're going to crash at our mother's tonight in order to escape his snoring and then meet up the merchant and offer him the deal. If he accepts, we're golden. If not, we can always try one of those other plans.
Leaving Omo to pitch his tent, you set off in search of Pevo and a potion-making tutorial. Considering it unlikely that Pevo would be sleeping beneath the stars, you figure the best place to start looking would be the main Temple of Yicelafo. Crossing Canopy Bridge, you make your way northward into the Forest Retreat- most of the homes are in the branches of the preternaturally large trees, though as it gets more densely populated you start passing homes and small market stalls on ground level. The grass here is soft and springy despite the tramping of hundreds of elven feet, and the air smells rich and clean even with the increased habitation.
You shortly arrive at the Great Temple of Yicelafo- a massive structure nestled in the branches of an enormous Oak, connected via rope bridge to the surrounding trees, the center of Life in the Young Vale. Though similar in layout to your home temple, the Great Temple dwarfs it in every scale you care to apply. The broad, grassy area surrounding the trunk is often used for dancing and other celebrations, though now it only has a few elves communing with nature.
Climbing the ramp that spirals about the trunk of the central tree, you ask after Pevo, and are eventually directed to the guest quarters- sure enough, you find Pevo here, reading a book on his bed.
Hey, Pevo!
Nym! So nice of you to visit. Here for the Fair, I take it?
That, and to ask the Elders permission to leave the Vale.
Hm. You've heard the news?
I have.
And you still want to go?
I do.
I see. Well, if nothing has changed for you, then nothing has changed for me.
Really? I thought you might try to talk me out of it.
There aren't many in the Vale as old as I am- if there is one thing my age has taught me, it's that everything happens for a reason, including your Wanderlust, I warrant.
Being old makes you a fatalist?
Heh- maybe it's just me. Well, I spoke with the Elders shortly after I arrived, and while I was at it I put in a good word for you. I don't know what good I did, but maybe you have a better chance than before.
Thank you, Pevo. Actually, so long as I'm here, I was wondering if your offer to teach me to make Mana Potions was still good?
Certainly, certainly! Here, let me get my things.
Pevo begins rummaging through drawers, pulling out mortar and pestle, a small pouch, an empty bottle, a bucket and a broad bowl. He hands you the bucket, and begins laying out the supplies on his dresser.
Alright, first thing's first- to make a potion you need liquid. Any will do, though I recommend something that isn't too thick, since the crystals will make it more difficult to drink as it is. There's a cistern down the ramp, big ol' hatch in the ground, can't miss it.
Any liquid? I was under the impression you needed booze, since that Mana potion you gave me tasted like Sunberries.
Hah! So you DID drink it! Oh, that's funny- it was going to be a practical joke on Ari, but you seemed so enthused I couldn't say no.
Wait... so you got me drunk as a dwarf for a laugh?
You insisted! That's why it's so funny! Hoho, oh mercy... well, what are you waiting for? Go get some water!
You go retrieve a bucket of water, trying to decide whether to be angry. On the one hand, Pevo was grossly irresponsible and immature- on the other hand, you did ask for it. You decide that, for now, it's more important to preserve your dignity and learn how to make potions; you can dress him down later if you still feel mad.
Alright, Pevo, here's your water.
Grand! So, let's begin. Opening the pouch, he pulls a small, purplish-pink crystal from it. This is a Crystal, an important ingredient in many magical enterprises and the most important part of Potion-making. The Crystals are what is going to hold the Mana you infuse the potion with. This shard will hold about 1 Mana, and since I'd like to have a useful potion when I'm done I'll be using 2 shards.
So the potion will end up restoring 2 Mana, right?
Right. Now, I'll take my pestle here, and grind it up as fine as I can. We need to get it down to about the consistency of sand, so it'll dissolve properly. Technically, you don't need to get it that fine, but if you don't you'll have chunks of crystal in your potion, which will be tough to swallow at the very least.
How big can you get away with? Say, if you were in a hurry.
If you're in a hurry, you're in trouble because the important step is also the most time consuming. The biggest thing with size is, the Crystals are sharp, so if they're too large they'll cut you up pretty good- this is why you can't just infuse a crystal and eat it without any liquid at all. Here, you've still got that empty potion bottle, right? Have a couple crystals, make your own alongside mine.
You accept a pair of crystals and mortar and pestle and start crushing them- you find that the individual shards are fairly sturdy, but a smart blow will fracture them, and from there it's a chore of fracturing them smaller and smaller until you can properly grind them. Soon, you both have a fine, sparkly pink powder.
Alright, that should be good enough. Now, we've each got enough powder for 2 Mana. It doesn't matter how much water this gets dissolved in- ideally, you want it to be enough that the potion isn't too grainy or sludgy, but not so much you have to drink a liter of the stuff just for 2 Mana. Most potion bottles are sized to provide a good compromise, unless you're making an outlandishly strong potion.
How strong can you make a potion?
There is no hard limit, but only half of the Mana you apply to the spell is going to be infused, and it takes longer the more Mana you pump into it. Here, fill your potion bottle with water, then sprinkle the powder in, like so. Then shake it good, get it all mixed up in there.
You follow Pevo's example, and are rewarded with a sparkly pink drink. Swirling it around, it appears that the Crystal has dissolved completely.
Great- now the hard part. The crystals in that solution will absorb up to 2 Mana, but they'll do so very slowly.
How slowly?
A solid hour, probably. You need to release your Mana slowly, so that it can absorb as much of it as possible- like I said, you'll still lose half of the Mana spent just because you can't possibly release it that slowly. The annoying part of the process is that if you lose control of the spell, even for an instant, all your work will be wasted and you'll have to start from scratch.
What, and get new Crystal too? Why can't you just start over from the Mana releasing part? Heck, why won't it hold the Mana you've already put in over the previous 50 minutes?
It's complicated- a Mage could give you the technical explanation, and might even use terminology you'd understand, but the gist of it is that the Crystal can absorb Mana quite well, but the last bit of the spell involves "sealing" the Mana inside. The Mage who taught me said it was like filling a pouch with marbles and then sewing it shut so they don't spill out.
Wait, so if you're sealing the Mana in the Crystal, how does it get into your body when you drink it?
You're a great one for questions, aren't you? I don't know, I just know that if you lose your concentration or botch the last step you've wasted a great deal of time. Now, carefully- focus your energies, and slowly direct them at the potion.
Following Pevo's lead, you gather your Mana and force it at the potion. It feels rather similar to when you manipulated raw Vitality, and you quickly get the knack of focusing it on your target. You can feel some small portion of it being absorbed, the rest dissipating into nothing. With effort, you scale your mana use back to the half and half point Pevo mentioned. It takes significant concentration, but you and Pevo are undisturbed. The hour seems to pass quickly, and finally Pevo demonstrates how to complete the spell.
And that should do it! Well done- I didn't get it, my first time. But then again, I recall you had surprising magical potential, given your lack of innate talent.
Yeah- so this is worth 2 Mana, then?
Yes. A Mana Potion takes twice the Mana to make, and about half an hour per point of Mana, but the potion lasts indefinitely and is rather valuable.
How valuable is valuable?
Oh, I'd expect that potion right there to market for 50 silver. Bear in mind, most of that cost includes the price of Crystal- those shards were about 20 silver apiece. Still, the increased effort and relative lack of powerful magic users makes the more potent potions much more valuable- as I recall, you had 10 Mana when you were last tested? That means you can make a potion with 5 Mana, for 100 silver worth of Crystal, and sell it for, say, 140? Not bad for two and a half hours wage!
I'll take your word for it, Pevo. Thank you!
No problem, no problem. Good luck with the Elders!
You emerge from the Great Temple with a new potion and a new skill. There are still a couple hours until sunset and your scheduled meeting with the merchant Luki Revereorder. In the interim, You could go visit your Mother and let her know you're staying the night, or you could try to find Elana Foundwasps- she's probably out in the encampment someplace, though it may be tricky to find her in the mass (and you aren't sure what all you want to say to her.) You might also want to spend an hour or two plotting with Omo- on the one hand, you want to visit the burned remnants of the Sacred Grove north of Thrimesdur, but on the other hand your plan to hitch a ride with the Caravan takes you in exactly the wrong direction. You should get that figured out.
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: joemoben on January 19, 2012, 06:27:51 pm
Also i recommend hitting up the wasteland first. Be nice to figure out why it is a wasteland.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 19, 2012, 06:42:11 pm
I think we should buy a small articulated doll of some sort in the fair with a bit of our leftover change and then later when we have some privacy, animate it and see if it can be made to move.
Post by: Cellmonk on January 19, 2012, 07:32:50 pm
Its unfortunate that our magic is so flashy, difficult to experiment in peace.
I think we should buy a small articulated doll of some sort in the fair with a bit of our leftover change and then later when we have some privacy, animate it and see if it can be made to move.
Agreed! totally!
Also, the crystal availability could be a major problem. What type of crystal is it? It supposedly dissolves, so is it a mineral salt of some sort? Or do the elves see no difference between solution and suspension?
Post by: RAM on January 19, 2012, 08:10:36 pm
Can vitality be focused into a potion instead of mana...
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 19, 2012, 08:20:54 pm
Post by: Grek on January 19, 2012, 08:44:39 pm
Also, no more backing out on our current plans. We can't afford to waver back and forth between Thrimesdur and the Coast; we need to pick one and stick with it. I don't care which; but we really do need to decide now and stop changing our minds.
Thrimesdur
Pros: We don't need the Council's permission. It's in the correct direction for our ultimate goal. The people there are friendly.
Cons: No magic amulet. Currently at war with a necromancer. Only 150 silver in profit from potions**; barely enough to start our own business.
Jewelled Coat
Pros: We get a magic amulet. We get ~30 silver a day*. Easier journey with the caravan taking us.
Cons: We need to get the Council to approve it. It's the opposite direction from the Sacred Grove. Pirates.
*The rate of return on mana potions is 1.4 silver back per 1 silver spent, less the cost of the bottles and whatever the merchant wants in food/rent for two elves. I'm assuming that will come out to < 10sp per day, but I'm leaving a pretty big margin of error there.
**If we ultimately decide on Thrimesdur, we can still ask the merchant to let us make mana potions*** to him to sell for the 5 days he'll be here, earning us 150 silver total.
***Making three potions of 2 mana each is probably more profitable than making one potion of 6 mana each. But whatever the merchant asks for, really.
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 19, 2012, 08:56:24 pm
We should probably find out where to buy those crystals at some point.I say we try for the amulet first, then if we don't get the council's permission we'll come up with another plan.
Also, no more backing out on our current plans. We can't afford to waver back and forth between Thrimesdur and the Coast; we need to pick one and stick with it. I don't care which; but we really do need to decide now and stop changing our minds.
Thrimesdur
Pros: We don't need the Council's permission. It's in the correct direction for our ultimate goal. The people there are friendly.
Cons: No magic amulet. Currently at war with a necromancer. Only 150 silver in profit from potions**; barely enough to start our own business.
Jewelled Coat
Pros: We get a magic amulet. We get ~30 silver a day*. Easier journey with the caravan taking us.
Cons: We need to get the Council to approve it. It's the opposite direction from the Sacred Grove. Pirates.
*The rate of return on mana potions is 1.4 silver back per 1 silver spent, less the cost of the bottles and whatever the merchant wants in food/rent for two elves. I'm assuming that will come out to < 10sp per day, but I'm leaving a pretty big margin of error there.
**If we ultimately decide on Thrimesdur, we can still ask the merchant to let us make mana potions*** to him to sell for the 5 days he'll be here, earning us 150 silver total.
***Making three potions of 2 mana each is probably more profitable than making one potion of 6 mana each. But whatever the merchant asks for, really.
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 19, 2012, 09:28:24 pm
For myself, I'd prefer we focus on our original plan and ignore the amulet. But there is time, and we might learn things helpful for our plan on the coast, so I'm not totally averse to going in that direction if he'd prefer it.
Post by: monk12 on January 19, 2012, 10:45:07 pm
Anywho, something I've been meaning to do for a while but haven't gotten around to- talk about the map!
(http://i.imgur.com/VayPD.png)
That map. Now, this map is basically scribbled on a napkin (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=96692.msg2819100#msg2819100), so don't expect perfect accuracy, but it's good enough to be getting on with. Since we're discussing travel, I figure'd I'd better throw out a rough scale and some travel times for your deliberation.
Thrimesdur- from river to river- is about 400 miles across, which is something like the width of Poland. To put it another way, traveling from one end to the other without any major interruptions would take you about 17 days on foot, 13 on a horse. Much like Poland, Thrimesdur is basically one big plain- rolling hills near the mountains, broad expanses of plains, and small, dense forests near rivers and the Black Swamps. From Yicelafo, it would be 300 miles (13 days) of walking to the Sacred Grove, barring poor weather, bandits, undead armies, so on and so forth.
The Jeweled Coast is something like 300 miles from end to end, although none of the cities' influence extends very far inland. Each city is rather unique, with its own system of government and resident population. It's only about 100 miles from Yicelafo to the nearest city, but since that journey is through thick, treacherous rainforest you're still looking at 6 solid days of travel on foot- sticking with the Caravan (and its associated carts and wagons) ups that estimate to 9 days, barring monsters, savage animals, hostile tribes of lizardfolk, severe weather, so on and so forth.
I think that covers everything that might factor into the immediate "east or west" decision facing You, so I leave you to it.
Post by: Elvisdogs on January 19, 2012, 11:20:12 pm
Or on a more serious note:
Head into Thrimesdur. I mean the place has massive amounts of undead correct? Just steal the damn amulet and leave.
Post by: Cellmonk on January 20, 2012, 12:00:23 am
Screw east or west head south into the gap between the western river of Thrimesdur and the mountains separating it from the Jeweled Coast. Take Omo with us and we shall become hermits and shall practice nercomancy in private until 300 years laters where we will emerge as a powerful necromancer and a master ranger. Our armies shall consist of the undead corpses of the resident man-bear-pigs combined with golems of honey stolen from the local giant bee populations. MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Or on a more serious note:
Head into Thrimesdur. I mean the place has massive amounts of undead correct? Just steal the damn amulet and leaf.
Remember that we are an elf.
Post by: JackOSpades on January 20, 2012, 06:37:50 am
necro some small creature, say a squirrel or something and use it to steal the amulet while you discuss business with the merchant. if successful then fail to reach an agreement and head the other direction.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 20, 2012, 07:56:48 am
great read so farAnd where would we get off to gain the privacy to raise a small animal undiscovered? We're at a crowded and busy fair, with elves camped everywhere and raising things makes bright purple flames. Besides, any number of life mages could be about to notice the magic. And notice what kind of magic it is.
necro some small creature, say a squirrel or something and use it to steal the amulet while you discuss business with the merchant. if successful then fail to reach an agreement and head the other direction.
Too dangerous.
Also, an elf walks in to the merchant's stall and takes an immediate interest in the amulet, and then it is stolen that very same night? Suspicious.
Post by: Shades on January 20, 2012, 10:13:30 am
We're at a crowded and busy fair, with elves camped everywhere and raising things makes bright purple flames, Besides, any number of life mages could be about to notice the magic. And notice what kind of magic it is.
Don't forget that so far noone else seems to have noticed that amulet, you'd have expected some mention of it if a number of mages had asked the seller and certainly have noticed a fuss if both that and the fact purple flames meant necromancy was known.
We should really find out what other magic users can see at some point. Would it be worth infusing a broach to wear to see who notices it, we could always blame our lack of innate talent for not noticing ourselves, or is this being too risky?
Post by: Grek on January 20, 2012, 10:18:23 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 20, 2012, 10:50:10 am
The amulet has nothing to do with it. If we start making purple flames erupt from a squirrel and have it run about with its purple flaming eyes to steal things from a crowded fairground which is likely to be guarded and/or still busy even late at night, someone might see. You know.. the purple flames. Coming from its eyes. :PWe're at a crowded and busy fair, with elves camped everywhere and raising things makes bright purple flames, Besides, any number of life mages could be about to notice the magic. And notice what kind of magic it is.
Don't forget that so far noone else seems to have noticed that amulet, you'd have expected some mention of it if a number of mages had asked the seller and certainly have noticed a fuss if both that and the fact purple flames meant necromancy was known.
We should really find out what other magic users can see at some point. Would it be worth infusing a broach to wear to see who notices it, we could always blame our lack of innate talent for not noticing ourselves, or is this being too risky?
I understand the wish to attain the amulet. I share it. We have a plan which will result in attaining the amulet. Its not like we're in a hurry.
Post by: Shades on January 20, 2012, 12:23:28 pm
The amulet has nothing to do with it. If we start making purple flames erupt from a squirrel and have it run about with its purple flaming eyes to steal things from a crowded fairground which is likely to be guarded and/or still busy even late at night, someone might see. You know.. the purple flames. Coming from its eyes. :P
I understand the wish to attain the amulet. I share it. We have a plan which will result in attaining the amulet. Its not like we're in a hurry.
My point was more that so far it looks like the purple flames aren't seen by others. Not that I think the squirrel is worth the risk, but we should do something to test what people can see.
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 20, 2012, 12:27:19 pm
Go find and talk to Elena, then talk to our parents. Tomorrow, we ask for permission to leave, and after that, we leave (regardless of what they say).
They might also want to send us somewhere, but we'll deal with that when we come to it. For now, I say we head inland.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 20, 2012, 01:12:09 pm
Where did you get the impression that the purple flames from Raise Dead aren't seen by others? The amulet wasn't giving off flames, it was registered as necromantic magic by our necromancer's sight.The amulet has nothing to do with it. If we start making purple flames erupt from a squirrel and have it run about with its purple flaming eyes to steal things from a crowded fairground which is likely to be guarded and/or still busy even late at night, someone might see. You know.. the purple flames. Coming from its eyes. :P
I understand the wish to attain the amulet. I share it. We have a plan which will result in attaining the amulet. Its not like we're in a hurry.
My point was more that so far it looks like the purple flames aren't seen by others. Not that I think the squirrel is worth the risk, but we should do something to test what people can see.
Post by: lockman766 on January 20, 2012, 02:45:16 pm
Post by: joemoben on January 20, 2012, 03:50:52 pm
Okay, I'm coming down hard on the side of "forget about the amulet, get permission to leave, and get the fuck out of here". I have no interest in us staying at the fair for a week.We already have permission to leave.
Go find and talk to Elena, then talk to our parents. Tomorrow, we ask for permission to leave, and after that, we leave (regardless of what they say).
They might also want to send us somewhere, but we'll deal with that when we come to it. For now, I say we head inland.
Post by: Grek on January 20, 2012, 04:02:51 pm
Okay, I'm coming down hard on the side of "forget about the amulet, get permission to leave, and get the fuck out of here". I have no interest in us staying at the fair for a week.We already have permission to leave.
Go find and talk to Elena, then talk to our parents. Tomorrow, we ask for permission to leave, and after that, we leave (regardless of what they say).
They might also want to send us somewhere, but we'll deal with that when we come to it. For now, I say we head inland.
We don't, actually.
And I'd like to add that not wanting to stick around for the end of the fair would be A] boring and B] screw us out of 15 gold.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 20, 2012, 04:31:09 pm
Also we could probably pass the time exercising our mana pool by making these potions for sale later. We might get a max MP increase out of it and we'll have a stock of potions to sell or use. Assuming someone at the fair can sell the crystals. We should ask Pevo who his supplier is.
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 20, 2012, 04:42:53 pm
While we're doing that stuff, we should ask Omo to explore around and find out the best way to make our escape should the council say no - What's going on with the border? What are people doing and saying? What was his plan to escape?
But honestly, I think we should try to super-mooch off our mom, and buy the amulet outright. Ask her for money for the trip and say you'll send her back exotic trinkets, or something, whatever it takes, and don't tie ourselves to this foolish merchant.
Post by: joemoben on January 20, 2012, 05:51:11 pm
Well dont i feel like an ass right about now. Sorry!Okay, I'm coming down hard on the side of "forget about the amulet, get permission to leave, and get the fuck out of here". I have no interest in us staying at the fair for a week.We already have permission to leave.
Go find and talk to Elena, then talk to our parents. Tomorrow, we ask for permission to leave, and after that, we leave (regardless of what they say).
They might also want to send us somewhere, but we'll deal with that when we come to it. For now, I say we head inland.
We don't, actually.
And I'd like to add that not wanting to stick around for the end of the fair would be A] boring and B] screw us out of 15 gold.
ALSO: MOOOOOCH. Not even specifically for the amulet. We are gonna need cash in the big wide world.
Post by: Shades on January 23, 2012, 04:12:06 am
Where did you get the impression that the purple flames from Raise Dead aren't seen by others? The amulet wasn't giving off flames, it was registered as necromantic magic by our necromancer's sight.
Maybe I misread it but I understood them to be the same thing.
Post by: fergus on January 23, 2012, 05:06:38 am
Post by: Lord Allagon on January 23, 2012, 06:22:39 am
I'm going with selling mana potions and going with the merchant.
That is a decent point... it would be nice to start with some money and or mana potions, even if we only end up spending all the money on more crystals for later. We need to find out the availability of these things.
While we're doing that stuff, we should ask Omo to explore around and find out the best way to make our escape should the council say no - What's going on with the border? What are people doing and saying? What was his plan to escape?
But honestly, I think we should try to super-mooch off our mom, and buy the amulet outright. Ask her for money for the trip and say you'll send her back exotic trinkets, or something, whatever it takes, and don't tie ourselves to this foolish merchant.
We have an influential person requesting permission for us to leave, not actual permission.This.
Also we could probably pass the time exercising our mana pool by making these potions for sale later. We might get a max MP increase out of it and we'll have a stock of potions to sell or use. Assuming someone at the fair can sell the crystals. We should ask Pevo who his supplier is.
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 23, 2012, 07:32:37 am
It did have a purple glow over the symbols on it, if I remember correctly, though.Where did you get the impression that the purple flames from Raise Dead aren't seen by others? The amulet wasn't giving off flames, it was registered as necromantic magic by our necromancer's sight.
Maybe I misread it but I understood them to be the same thing.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 23, 2012, 08:04:50 am
Post by: Urist McManiac on January 23, 2012, 08:41:29 am
First of all, we need to get the amulet! Afterall, where going to fight two necromancers, each with an army at their command. It couldn't hurt if we would have an artifact of power. Even if it proves to be rather worthless, we can still learn about necromancy by studying it. As mentioned before, we should try to get money from our mother, sell some mana potions and try to barter with the merchant.
Secondly, we need information. I'd propose that we go and talk to our mother and Elana (maybe we can find out more about necromantic artifacts, by the way) and meet the elders, but if they want us to go on a mission for them, try to reject. We don't want to have someone always looking over our shoulder.
I know that we want to go to the old elven homelands, but I'd suggest not to go there right now. We know that the elven homelands are infested with undead, and Thrimesdur is at war with a powerful necromancer. We should avoid this place for the moment. We should rather go with the caravan to the Jeweled Coast. If we join the caravan, I guess we are safe from the hazards in the jungle. Also, the necromancer from the Jeweled coast doesn't seem as powerful as Nightroars (most of his army is composed of pirates and mercenaries, instead of undead). We also know that Nightroars is clearly evil, while the necromancer of the Jeweled Coast seems to be more of a powerful bandit lord.
Therefore I would suggest this (in no particular order):
- Get money (from our parents, from selling mana potions)
- Talk to the merchant and try to bargain for the amulet
- Visit our mother and Elana, getting as much informations as possible
- Meeting the Elders, but reject any mission they want to give to us
- Joining the caravan to the Jeweled Coast
Post by: monk12 on January 23, 2012, 11:31:45 pm
It did have a purple glow over the symbols on it, if I remember correctly, though.Where did you get the impression that the purple flames from Raise Dead aren't seen by others? The amulet wasn't giving off flames, it was registered as necromantic magic by our necromancer's sight.
Maybe I misread it but I understood them to be the same thing.
Apologies, they are in fact different things- due to poor planning on my part, they both happen to be purple :P
The purple flames are a specific side effect of the Raise Dead spell, for undisclosed reasons. They are quite visible to Muggles, and shed visible light (so yeah, you could use them as weird-ass torches.)
Necromantic Energy is considerably more intricate, and is present throughout the whatever-it-is that's been infused by Necromancy. It glows, but is only visible to you and your Necromantic Sight (and, if this amulet is any indication, anybody else with Necromantic Sight.) It does not shed light and is invisible to non-Necromancers. Looking back, "blaze" was a poor word choice for the amulet- I meant that the glow was very intense. It does not appear as flames. There is actually more to your Necromantic Sight than has yet been revealed, mostly because circumstances have put a brief hold on your experimenting.
Anywho, my many-days-in-a-row of work are over, so tomorrow we'll be getting back on track. It looks like the immediate votes are for "Meet with Omo, compare notes, get him to gather travel info," "MOOOOOCH," and "Thrimesdur and points East." This makes your meeting with the merchant less about traveling with him, and more about making money (hopefully enough for the amulet outright.)
Post by: Grek on January 24, 2012, 03:55:21 am
If Omo asks why we changed our mind yet again about travelling with the merchant, tell him that we found out he was going the wrong way. We're ditzy enough that it'll pass without question.
Post by: Lord Allagon on January 24, 2012, 08:33:02 am
Drop the amulet- lockman766, GlyphGryph, Cellmonk - 3
Get the amulet- Phantom of The Library, forsaken1111, me, Urist McManiac and Grek. - 5
Steal the amulet- Elvisdogs, JackOSpades -2
-----------
Elven Homeland / Thrimesdur -Cellmonk, lockman766, GlyphGriph, joemoben, Elvisdogs, Grek. - 6
Jewelled Coast - Phantom of The Library, fergus, me, Urist McManiac. - 4
-----------
Correct me if this isn't your position/missed anyone.
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 24, 2012, 04:46:02 pm
Looks like our only option is to MOOCH our way to it.
Of course, we don't even KNOW WHAT IT DOES yet.
You know what we should do? Tell the merchant exactly who we are and ask if we can study the amulet? It looks like it might (key word might) be something a friend was looking for, but we'd have to bring it to them to see. Or something.
Our father is with the guards, or family is well known, he can totally trust us.
Then we run off and probe the goddamn thing.
Post by: fergus on January 24, 2012, 05:26:11 pm
You know what we should do? Tell the merchant exactly who we are and ask if we can study the amulet? It looks like it might (key word might) be something a friend was looking for, but we'd have to bring it to them to see. Or something.It would be safer to steal it right now.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 24, 2012, 05:27:30 pm
In what way? We are not a skilled thief. We are a slightly awkward female necromancer.You know what we should do? Tell the merchant exactly who we are and ask if we can study the amulet? It looks like it might (key word might) be something a friend was looking for, but we'd have to bring it to them to see. Or something.It would be safer to steal it right now.
Post by: fergus on January 24, 2012, 05:32:16 pm
Point.In what way? We are not a skilled thief. We are a slightly awkward female necromancer.You know what we should do? Tell the merchant exactly who we are and ask if we can study the amulet? It looks like it might (key word might) be something a friend was looking for, but we'd have to bring it to them to see. Or something.It would be safer to steal it right now.
Post by: joemoben on January 24, 2012, 06:16:38 pm
You know what we should do? Tell the merchant exactly who we are and ask if we can study the amulet? It looks like it might (key word might) be something a friend was looking for, but we'd have to bring it to them to see. Or something.
Our father is with the guards, or family is well known, he can totally trust us.
Then we run off and probe the goddamn thing.
Just to be more specific, you don't mean the necromancy right? Just like toss him a few favors and what not?
Also, just had a great idea. prostitute for it? Worth a try at least.
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 24, 2012, 07:18:13 pm
Regardless of my own misgivings regarding that, it's doubtful that the GM would allow it.
You know what we should do? Tell the merchant exactly who we are and ask if we can study the amulet? It looks like it might (key word might) be something a friend was looking for, but we'd have to bring it to them to see. Or something.
Our father is with the guards, or family is well known, he can totally trust us.
Then we run off and probe the goddamn thing.
Just to be more specific, you don't mean the necromancy right? Just like toss him a few favors and what not?
Also, just had a great idea. prostitute for it? Worth a try at least.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 24, 2012, 07:34:16 pm
Post by: Cellmonk on January 24, 2012, 07:37:39 pm
Its also doubtful that our character would do such a thing.
Never know with elves. Dang elves, prostituting their way to power!
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 24, 2012, 07:44:56 pm
Its also doubtful that our character would do such a thing.Those would be my misgivings, along with the morality of said act.
Post by: Rockowl on January 24, 2012, 08:58:57 pm
Unless ofcourse, we knew the amulet was worth fucking much, which we could only have known using Necromantic Sight. I mean, just about everyone and their mother has Necromantic Sight nowadays, right? Everyone has it, guys? Right? ...no?
Oh, exclusively necromancers?
Well, that's completely unsuspicious.
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 24, 2012, 09:09:31 pm
Unless ofcourse, we knew the amulet was worth fucking much, which we could only have known using Necromantic Sight. I mean, just about everyone and their mother has Necromantic Sight nowadays, right? Everyone has it, guys? Right? ...no?It was worth a lot because he marked it up a ridiculous amount claiming that it was an old dwarven artifact. Actually it's probably worth a lot more than that, given the fact that it is of unknown workmanship (I'm thinking goblins maybe...), and given the general lack of necromancers, probably one of the few artefacts of its kind in existence.
Oh, exclusively necromancers?
Well, that's completely unsuspicious.
Post by: Grek on January 24, 2012, 10:04:14 pm
Post by: lockman766 on January 25, 2012, 01:43:38 am
Whoring ourselves out for a magical amulet is a terrible idea. Don't do that.I agree with Grek
Post by: Cellmonk on January 25, 2012, 02:01:52 am
Post by: fergus on January 25, 2012, 02:40:48 am
I must agree with this.Whoring ourselves out for a magical amulet is a terrible idea. Don't do that.I agree with Grek
And if we do do that, we might want to keep the details down, lest this become... a certain type... of fanfic...This should be irrelevant.
Post by: Shades on January 25, 2012, 05:19:37 am
It was worth a lot because he marked it up a ridiculous amount claiming that it was an old dwarven artifact. Actually it's probably worth a lot more than that, given the fact that it is of unknown workmanship (I'm thinking goblins maybe...), and given the general lack of necromancers, probably one of the few artefacts of its kind in existence.
As it's not at all angular we could always point out it's not worth anything like what he is asking because it's clearly not an old dwarven artifact. Probably made by a few humans a handful of years ago or something, still pretty so we'd consider buying it but not for that outrageous price.
Post by: fergus on January 25, 2012, 05:28:14 am
This, on the other hand, is a good idea.It was worth a lot because he marked it up a ridiculous amount claiming that it was an old dwarven artifact. Actually it's probably worth a lot more than that, given the fact that it is of unknown workmanship (I'm thinking goblins maybe...), and given the general lack of necromancers, probably one of the few artefacts of its kind in existence.
As it's not at all angular we could always point out it's not worth anything like what he is asking because it's clearly not an old dwarven artifact. Probably made by a few humans a handful of years ago or something, still pretty so we'd consider buying it but not for that outrageous price.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 25, 2012, 09:33:31 am
Also wouldn't hurt to have our burly ranger friend behind us to back us up a bit when we say it. Make him glare a bit, you know.This, on the other hand, is a good idea.It was worth a lot because he marked it up a ridiculous amount claiming that it was an old dwarven artifact. Actually it's probably worth a lot more than that, given the fact that it is of unknown workmanship (I'm thinking goblins maybe...), and given the general lack of necromancers, probably one of the few artefacts of its kind in existence.
As it's not at all angular we could always point out it's not worth anything like what he is asking because it's clearly not an old dwarven artifact. Probably made by a few humans a handful of years ago or something, still pretty so we'd consider buying it but not for that outrageous price.
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 25, 2012, 09:54:27 am
So the first step is still, definitely, to MOOOOOCH.
though since we have the meeting in a little while, insinuating that we'd like to get to know him better, talking about the possibility of traveling with him, etc. and so on would both keep our options open (if the council decides we should) or at the very least make him think favorably of us, putting us in a stronger bargaining position when we finally do get some cash.
Post by: monk12 on January 25, 2012, 08:33:11 pm
As I count it, the votes are:
Drop the amulet- lockman766, GlyphGryph, Cellmonk - 3
Get the amulet- Phantom of The Library, forsaken1111, me, Urist McManiac and Grek. - 5
Steal the amulet- Elvisdogs, JackOSpades -2
-----------
Elven Homeland / Thrimesdur -Cellmonk, lockman766, GlyphGriph, joemoben, Elvisdogs, Grek. - 6
Jewelled Coast - Phantom of The Library, fergus, me, Urist McManiac. - 4
-----------
Correct me if this isn't your position/missed anyone.
It was worth a lot because he marked it up a ridiculous amount claiming that it was an old dwarven artifact. Actually it's probably worth a lot more than that, given the fact that it is of unknown workmanship (I'm thinking goblins maybe...), and given the general lack of necromancers, probably one of the few artefacts of its kind in existence.
As it's not at all angular we could always point out it's not worth anything like what he is asking because it's clearly not an old dwarven artifact. Probably made by a few humans a handful of years ago or something, still pretty so we'd consider buying it but not for that outrageous price.
Even if we could get the price down, we'd still need more cash. And we need enough to create more potions for our income stream as well.
So the first step is still, definitely, to MOOOOOCH.
though since we have the meeting in a little while, insinuating that we'd like to get to know him better, talking about the possibility of traveling with him, etc. and so on would both keep our options open (if the council decides we should) or at the very least make him think favorably of us, putting us in a stronger bargaining position when we finally do get some cash.
Leaving the Great Temple behind, you decide to catch dinner with Omo and make plans before meeting with the merchant. In no time at all you're back at the campsite, where Omo has reset his tent and started cooking dinner- vegetables cooked in Strawberry Wine, by the smell. Omo offers you a plate, and you gladly accept his hospitality.
So, did you learn how to make mana potions?
I did- we should be able to make a fair bit of coin, from what Pevo tells me. I've been thinking, though, that what I really want to do is visit the Sacred Grove. So, instead of traveling with the merchant, I was thinking we just stick around here for a few more days, anyway, and sell him some potions. Did you have a preference which way we should go?
East, West, it makes no difference to me so long as there are new sights to see. I'd rather leave now, though, while we can.
Oh? Have you heard something new?
Well, no, but it's all but certain the border will be sealed sooner or later!
Or in other words, you're fidgety and just want to go. Well, how about this- while I'm funding our trip, you listen around and try to find out what's happening. Keep your ears open for word about any big movements by the Rangers, things that could mean the border is sealed or we're mobilizing, things of that nature. Figure out some alternate escape routes, in case it happens suddenly. Didn't you have a plan in place to desert before I ran into you?
Yeah, I was just going to use my knowledge of the patrol patterns to sneak off. That was before we were at the brink of war, though, so there's certainly more patrols out than normal. If the border gets sealed, there will probably be stationary pickets and sentries to contend with, too.
Well, we'll figure something out. What are they going to do if we just walk away, shoot us?
No, they'll probably wrestle us down, throw me in the stockade for desertion and... actually, I'm not sure what they'd do with you. Probably check you for mental illness of some kind.
...Oh. Well. Thanks for dinner, I've got a meeting to get to.
See you tomorrow!
Now that you've eaten your fill, you head back to the Caravan Fair. The sun is setting, and elves are already setting up bonfires and barrels of drink while merchants pack their wares for the night. You find the merchant Luki Revereorder outside his tent, staking the flaps down. He waves as you approach, and straightens up.
Hello again, milady... ah, forgive me, but I don't believe I ever caught your name?
Call me Nym, Master Revereorder. You sell a great many exotic goods- I'd wager you also sell Mana Potions?
Indeed I do, ah, Nym, and a great many other potions besides.
Grand- as it happens, I have need of some ready cash, and I can make potions stronger than what you'll find outside the Vale.
Luki's eyes glint. Yes, yes, elves are quite magically adept, I know. How potent are your brews?
I can make them 6 Mana strong.
That strong? Are you a Mage?
No, I am merely talented even by elven standards.
I see. Do you have your own supplies? Crystal, potion bottles and the like?
Well, no, but those materials should be readily available here at the Fair.
Yes, but I'll be the one footing that bill. Let's see... how many potions are you willing to make?
I plan to be here throughout the Fair- that's what, five days? Five potions, assuming maximum strength.
Luki pulls out a small abacus, and starts doing some rapid math. Figure sixty gold for the crystal, a few more for the potion bottles... alright, your best profit margin is in making the strongest available. Most human mages with your capacity can't be bothered to waste their mana on potions. I can offer you 36 silver for each potion.
That's it?
I like you, so I'll give it to you straight. When I'm reselling those potions, the lowest I'm gonna go is 170 silver. A bit more than 120 of that is just the cost of Crystal- that leaves 50 silver of profit between me and you. I'm giving you the lion's share, since like I said, most mages can't be bothered to make potions this strong. It's bad business to inadequately compensate a mage.
Well... alright.
Grand. Stop by tomorrow morning, Nym, and I'll have some Crystal and a potion bottle for you.
Tomorrow morning, then.
You walk off towards your Mother's home in the city, not in the mood for any more festivities. You're looking at 18 gold for your wages, a handsome profit- but nowhere near the asking price for the medallion. It appears unlikely you'll be able to drum up the cash to make anything like a reasonable offer.
Your path takes you off the main roads, along narrow paths lit by the candles of nearby houses. Soon, you come to your mother's place- her apartment is spacious by elven standards, and occupies the second tier of a tree that plays host to three dwellings in its branches. Climbing the rope ladder, you knock and enter.
Your mother looks up in surprise- seeing that it is you, her striking face lights up with joy, and she catches you up in a warm embrace.
Nym! I didn't know you were in town! How long have you been here?
Not long, Mom, I only got in last night.
Well, come on, sit down- have you eaten?
You take the proffered seat, an overstuffed cushion in a wicker frame. I have, Omo set me up.
Such a nice boy. I was happy to hear you're trying to make something of yourself- I hope you take the opportunity to study with the Sages, now that your journey is interrupted.
What? Did they seal the border?
Not yet, but I can tell you that's in the cards. The Elders will not risk another Necromancer destroying the Vale.
Ah, so there's still time to go.
What? Nym, you can't really be thinking of leaving in the middle of a war.
Well, why not? It's better than being cooped up here.
Nym! The only thing you can do out there is throw your life away!
Because I'm spending it better here?
Listen to me- I've been privy to the Elders meetings, since the Mages are preparing for the use of war magics not seen since the Golgothan War, and let me tell you it is bad out there. There's anarchy in Thrimesdur, as the rabble lose confidence in the Empire's ability to protect them. The Jeweled Coast is toxic with maneuvering and politics- rumor has it some cities are considering alliance with the Pirate King! As if a Necromancer could be trusted.
Maybe...
Maybe what?
Nothing, I guess. Let's not fight- how's Dad?
You pass the next few hours catching up- you haven't seen your Mother in some time, after all. You don't press the issue of leaving, sensing your Mother is not receptive to the idea- you still want to sleep here tonight, after all. It doesn't sound like she'll be supportive of your trip, however.
It turns out your Father did escort the Caravan in, and in fact was here last night, but right now he's off giving orders to various Ranger garrisons and won't be back tonight. As the candles burn low, you head to bed, dropping your things in the guest room and quickly falling asleep.
The only commitment you have for tomorrow is to make a potion for Luki Revereorder, a task that will consume a few hours but hardly the whole day. Should you try to win your Mother's support tomorrow morning? [if so, I'd like something more specific than "yes."] You could also try to get the permission of the Elders to leave, and you haven't met Elana yet. What to do, what to do...
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: fergus on January 25, 2012, 09:06:18 pm
Figure sixty gold for the crystalDid you mean "sixty silver"?
Should you try to win your Mother's support tomorrow morning?No.
You could also try to get the permission of the Elders to leave,Maybe.
If we travel with the caravan, we should have a safer journey and may be able to make some more money for the medallion, but this would probably be easier if we have permission from the Elders as we won't have to risk being found by the guards. Also, the Elders may be happier about the idea if we travel with the caravan, due to the guards and large group.
Post by: Grek on January 25, 2012, 09:33:27 pm
We probably aren't going to convince our mum or the Elders to let us leave. Let's go visit Elana and see how she's doing.
Post by: monk12 on January 25, 2012, 09:56:47 pm
Post by: fergus on January 25, 2012, 09:57:51 pm
The crystals cost 20 silver per point of mana, which is the same as 2 gold. 2 gold per mana * 1 potion per day * 5 five days * 6 mana per potion=60 gold for all 5 potions we'll be brewing for him.Ah.
We probably aren't going to convince our mum or the Elders to let us leave. Let's go visit Elana and see how she's doing.Is the caravan going to be guarded on the way out? Are we likely to be spotted by the guards? In any case, visiting Elana seems like a good idea.
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 25, 2012, 10:26:51 pm
Do a quick look around for Elana on the way - if we don't find her, so be it, but if we do, be glad to see her and tell her what's going on.
Post by: Felius on January 25, 2012, 11:19:07 pm
I vote for asking the council as soon as possible - try to convince them. Offer to do diplomacy. To gather information, and then return. Offer to travel with a (different) caravan heading east. Note that one of the rangers has offered to escort and protect you if you leave. Focus on the benefits your trip can provide, especially if they give you some magical way to remain in contact with them (if such a thing exists, obviously!) If they turn you down, we'll know, immediately, that we need to change our plans. If they push the issue, don't just storm off - agree with them that they are correct, the issues they've brought up are serious, and they're right - you will stay in the veil.Yes, this, but if they do press the issue and forbid you to leave, bank on our immortality, after all, it's not like we are going to get any particularly older while we wait, and remain in the vale a few more weeks or months, to reduce suspicion and to better prepare, including the preparation of potions, and proper training to survive outside. See if we can convince Omo about it. Practice more your spells before going away.
Do a quick look around for Elana on the way - if we don't find her, so be it, but if we do, be glad to see her and tell her what's going on.
Also:
Experiment: Try to make a healing potion by infusing liquid with vitality using the drain vitality spell. If that doesn't work, try it with some organic material that can be diluted in water, such as sugar.
Post by: fergus on January 25, 2012, 11:32:12 pm
If they turn you down, we'll know, immediately, that we need to change our plans. If they push the issue, don't just storm off - agree with them that they are correct, the issues they've brought up are serious, and they're right - you will stay in the veil.Don't concede to quickly or the trick will be obvious. Make sure we sound disappointed and present every argument we might have, and then concede (or win). If we give up to easily, then they would be smart to assume that we are planning to sneak out.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 26, 2012, 08:17:24 am
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 26, 2012, 08:36:13 am
Post by: Felius on January 26, 2012, 09:59:00 am
Instead, mooch dear mother: "Mother, I was hoping I could get one piece of jewelry from one of the traders but I don't have the money for it right now. Please? Pleaaaseeee? I'll even make some mana potions later for you as repayment.
Also, experiments in no particular order:
Somewhere, maybe after you go back to fishing, try extinguish vitality, similalry to how you drain it, but after you feel it, try to destroy it, or simply let it go uncontroled, instead of trying to bound and control it. It might be easier compared to actually draining it.
and
Find or make some moldy bread. Try to drain or extinguish vitality only in the mold. Try to make the bread good again. Eventually try to do the same with a sick tree, fish and etc again. See if you can deal with parasites this way.
And to finish something to consider:
If we get stuck in the vale, eventually start raising one tree and some random animals somewhere very isolated, with the excuse you are looking for other fishing holes. The animals you tell them to simply randomly "scout" the vale, carefully avoiding any elf or human. Eventually "find" the tree (it might be better if you raise the tree last and "find" it as soon as you raise it), and run as fast as you can to the nearest settlement, and tell that you found a very strange tree burning in a purple light (how could you possibly know it was necromancy after all?). When/if they identify it as necromancy, it's a good argument to the council unseal the vale, after all seems some necromancer already got it, and it might be good to have elves outside trying to gather information. With some luck the undead animals you raised will be occasionally found every now and then much after you left the vale and reduce suspicion of you.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 26, 2012, 10:20:08 am
I'd say we shouldn't. The amulet might not be worth half of our wages in the end. It's quite clear not of dwarven make, of unknown age, unknown origin, unknown quality (to him), etc.It wouldn't be worth the wages to other people, true. It is an object of necromantic power though and likely worth far more than the asking price to us.
Post by: Felius on January 26, 2012, 10:21:06 am
Maybe. But he don't know that. :PI'd say we shouldn't. The amulet might not be worth half of our wages in the end. It's quite clear not of dwarven make, of unknown age, unknown origin, unknown quality (to him), etc.It wouldn't be worth the wages to other people, true. It is an object of necromantic power though and likely worth far more than the asking price to us.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 26, 2012, 10:26:38 am
I know... that is my point. We won't make nearly enough to buy the amulet for his asking price just from making these potions. He may be willing to simply exchange it for the work on the potions and pocket all of the profit from them rather than paying us. We would get far more value from that deal than selling the potions through him, and he would think he is taking advantage of us a bit by giving us a trinket which is likely too valuable to sell here anyway for some merchandise which is guaranteed to move.Maybe. But he don't know that. :PI'd say we shouldn't. The amulet might not be worth half of our wages in the end. It's quite clear not of dwarven make, of unknown age, unknown origin, unknown quality (to him), etc.It wouldn't be worth the wages to other people, true. It is an object of necromantic power though and likely worth far more than the asking price to us.
We could feed him a line of crap about how elves are not inherently materialistic people and we would much prefer to barter our skill for the amulet than for less useful coinage. He'd think we're mad of course, merchants are always focused on the coin.
Post by: Felius on January 26, 2012, 10:56:38 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 26, 2012, 10:58:28 am
On the other hand, if we do that we are not getting the coin we'd need to prepare to travel. Maybe we could negotiate with him paying a much smaller wage (maybe 15-10 sp per potion?) instead of not paying us at all.We'll be traveling with a ranger who can provide food and build small shelters. I don't really think we need that much raw coinage really, and we can try to work a few crystals into the deal instead so we can make potions as we go to pay for things.
I just think the amulet is more important than some coin, and we won't earn enough to purchase it unless we stay for weeks making potions.
Post by: fergus on January 26, 2012, 05:02:27 pm
It will take four weeks and raise Omo's suspicions (who works for four weeks for one piece of jewellery?). I think we should just go with mooching of our parents and trying to haggle the merchant down.On the other hand, if we do that we are not getting the coin we'd need to prepare to travel. Maybe we could negotiate with him paying a much smaller wage (maybe 15-10 sp per potion?) instead of not paying us at all.We'll be traveling with a ranger who can provide food and build small shelters. I don't really think we need that much raw coinage really, and we can try to work a few crystals into the deal instead so we can make potions as we go to pay for things.
I just think the amulet is more important than some coin, and we won't earn enough to purchase it unless we stay for weeks making potions.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 26, 2012, 05:59:43 pm
What will take four weeks? I didn't say anything about extending our time here.It will take four weeks and raise Omo's suspicions (who works for four weeks for one piece of jewellery?). I think we should just go with mooching of our parents and trying to haggle the merchant down.On the other hand, if we do that we are not getting the coin we'd need to prepare to travel. Maybe we could negotiate with him paying a much smaller wage (maybe 15-10 sp per potion?) instead of not paying us at all.We'll be traveling with a ranger who can provide food and build small shelters. I don't really think we need that much raw coinage really, and we can try to work a few crystals into the deal instead so we can make potions as we go to pay for things.
I just think the amulet is more important than some coin, and we won't earn enough to purchase it unless we stay for weeks making potions.
Post by: fergus on January 26, 2012, 06:08:54 pm
Raising the money for the medallion at the current pay rate/price (100gp/3.6gp = 27.7 days) and would probably require travelling with the merchant. (Wasn't the caravan going to leave in five days?)What will take four weeks? I didn't say anything about extending our time here.It will take four weeks and raise Omo's suspicions (who works for four weeks for one piece of jewellery?). I think we should just go with mooching of our parents and trying to haggle the merchant down.On the other hand, if we do that we are not getting the coin we'd need to prepare to travel. Maybe we could negotiate with him paying a much smaller wage (maybe 15-10 sp per potion?) instead of not paying us at all.We'll be traveling with a ranger who can provide food and build small shelters. I don't really think we need that much raw coinage really, and we can try to work a few crystals into the deal instead so we can make potions as we go to pay for things.
I just think the amulet is more important than some coin, and we won't earn enough to purchase it unless we stay for weeks making potions.
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 26, 2012, 06:10:18 pm
His argument was that we didn't need the money, so we should just try to trade directly for the amulet.
Post by: Ochita on January 26, 2012, 06:10:40 pm
We shouldn't worry about the amulet. Its out of our price range, and any action will begin suspicion. We should just leave it, as we don't even know what it does, and its best to see how all our necromancy acts 'normally'.
Post by: fergus on January 26, 2012, 06:19:52 pm
Forsaken was arguing we should try to barter for the amulet by forgoing payment, not that we should save up for four weeks.Isn't that effectively the same as bargaining the merchant down and saving up for it, as far as time and effort go?
His argument was that we didn't need the money, so we should just try to trade directly for the amulet.
Post by: Sensei on January 26, 2012, 06:37:00 pm
Step 2: Engineer a theft or accident which will prevent him from having any money to pay you with.
Step 3: Offer to take the amulet instead.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 26, 2012, 07:03:05 pm
No... did you read what I posted? I said we should offer to take the amulet in lieu of payment for the work we are already committed to doing. Nowhere did I say we should stay for another month to save up money.Forsaken was arguing we should try to barter for the amulet by forgoing payment, not that we should save up for four weeks.Isn't that effectively the same as bargaining the merchant down and saving up for it, as far as time and effort go?
His argument was that we didn't need the money, so we should just try to trade directly for the amulet.
Consider this: It is a 'dwarven' amulet according to him with a very high value. He is GUESSING. He had no idea what the value is, he just knows that it is probably rare and is quite pretty. This is what is known as speculation, and its unreliable. He doesn't know if he can sell the amulet for the price he quoted... or for any price. It could turn out to be worthless, in fact. He obviously hasn't had it appraised or he wouldn't call it dwarven. He may be willing to give it to us in trade for some goods (high capacity potions which we are already making) which he knows WILL sell. It is trading speculative value for real hard currency, and most merchants care more about the currency. Inventory is not money until it is sold, after all. You could have the rarest most valuable object in the kingdom but if nobody wants to buy it, it can't pay for your breakfast.
We're planning to stay for 5 days and make potions each day. He will be giving us 36 silver (or 3.6 gold) per potion which totals to 18 gold. That is the lion's share of the profit from the endeavor and I'm willing to bet he'd be eager to recoup that loss by trading us an amulet which may or may not ever be sold.
Regardless, I DO NOT think we should stay here for a month. I don't know where that came from or why people keep repeating it but its a bad idea in my opinion.
Post by: fergus on January 26, 2012, 07:11:00 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 26, 2012, 07:13:35 pm
Post by: Grek on January 26, 2012, 07:52:45 pm
My advice: Work your 5 days and get your 18 gold. Make friends with the merchant, he seems like a cool dude. Convince the merchant to take you with him to the Jewelled Coast, continuing your agreement. The 10 day trip to the coast will earn you a further 36 gold, for a total of 54. Attempt to convince the merchant to sell you the amulet for 25, citing how we know that it's totally not dwarven and that we think it looks more like something the goblins would make.
Post by: fergus on January 26, 2012, 08:06:41 pm
Post by: RAM on January 27, 2012, 02:06:30 am
Social Standing: "That boy said that I was plain-looking! ..."
Lie: "The college requires a fee for enrolment..."
(almost) Honesty: "I found an amulet that seems to resonate with my magical properties. I simply must have it!"
Just 'cause: "Well I was in the fair the other day... The food is obscene, but I couldn't attend the fair without eating some... I heard that there were alcoholic mana potions, not that I would have anything to do with such things... I saw the most perfect little amulet. The merchant thought that it was dwarven but it obviously wasn't. I simply must have it, can I please have 100 gold, pleeeeeease! ..."
Misfortune: "Some ruffian just accosted me in the street. They took all of my monetary resources!"
My other car: "I am going into business making mana potions, I need some funds for the initial expenses."
Fancy Dress: "The social season is approaching and I need a new outfit for formal occasions."
Moo Moo Cow Moo: "The fortune-teller said that they would curse me if I didn't pay for their broken stall."
P.S.
Jalapeno argle flarge bake.
Post by: fergus on January 27, 2012, 02:23:49 am
Guilt: "I will leave regardless of your involvement. Failing to render assistance would be neglectful."This... probably won't work and sounds suspicious.
Social Standing: "That boy said that I was plain-looking! ..."This will probably result in some line about ignoring such people instead of money.
Lie: "The college requires a fee for enrolment..."This might actually work, but we had better have everything planned out about whatever we say we need the money for.
(almost) Honesty: "I found an amulet that seems to resonate with my magical properties. I simply must have it!"
Just 'cause: "Well I was in the fair the other day... The food is obscene, but I couldn't attend the fair without eating some... I heard that there were alcoholic mana potions, not that I would have anything to do with such things... I saw the most perfect little amulet. The merchant thought that it was dwarven but it obviously wasn't. I simply must have it, can I please have 100 gold, pleeeeeease! ..."These two might work, but only if it's easily affordable for them.
Misfortune: "Some ruffian just accosted me in the street. They took all of my monetary resources!"Our parents probably knows that we don't have much in the way of money, so this won't get us much.
My other car: "I am going into business making mana potions, I need some funds for the initial expenses."This could work, if it's not questioned to much.
Fancy Dress: "The social season is approaching and I need a new outfit for formal occasions."Do elves have formal occasions?
Moo Moo Cow Moo: "The fortune-teller said that they would curse me if I didn't pay for their broken stall."I have nothing to say about this.
For all of these, we have to consider how well it fits with out parents conception of our personality, any sudden changes will be suspicious.
Post by: Rockowl on January 27, 2012, 03:50:48 am
Mooching probably wouldn't work, but what the hell, we migh a well try it.
My advice: Work your 5 days and get your 18 gold. Make friends with the merchant, he seems like a cool dude. Convince the merchant to take you with him to the Jewelled Coast, continuing your agreement. The 10 day trip to the coast will earn you a further 36 gold, for a total of 54. Attempt to convince the merchant to sell you the amulet for 25, citing how we know that it's totally not dwarven and that we think it looks more like something the goblins would make.
This, coupled with the fact that perhaps our POTION MAKING SKILL WILL INCREASE OVER TIME. Or perhaps our mana-pool or whatever. Then we could make even better potions, and as we reach higher limits then the price should increase just about exponentially near the top. We currently don't know much about the potion market, but there's no reason not to ask the merchant about the world of potion trade. You know how, universally in all trade, high-end things are always ridiculously overpriced, even if they are only somewhat better than current standards. The offer of 25 gold might be a bit bold, he IS a professional merchant. Ofcourse he'll overprice it at first and we need to start low with haggling our way up. (EDIT: And then I mean that we should try to stall getting the price up too high, you know how haggling works.) We do have two bonusses to charisma, if you know what I mean. :-X
So yeah, skill increases and so does profit. Also learn more about potion trade and such in general.
Post by: Lord Allagon on January 27, 2012, 04:09:42 am
Edited because I changed my mind.
Post by: fergus on January 27, 2012, 04:20:53 am
This, coupled with the fact that perhaps our POTION MAKING SKILL WILL INCREASE OVER TIME. Or perhaps our mana-pool or whatever. Then we could make even better potions, and as we reach higher limits then the price should increase just about exponentially near the top. We currently don't know much about the potion market, but there's no reason not to ask the merchant about the world of potion trade. You know how, universally in all trade, high-end things are always ridiculously overpriced, even if they are only somewhat better than current standards.There's no point in making a potion that restores more mana then the mage can store.
Post by: RAM on January 27, 2012, 06:26:10 am
Post by: fergus on January 27, 2012, 06:35:21 am
What is the difference between two one mana potions of half a litre volume each and a single two mana potion of one litre volume?Probably nothing.
And what happens of the two lesser potions are mixed?I guess that they would combine mana values and volumes, like normal liquids. The amount of mana is restricted by crystals not volume of liquid. I guess that means that making an extremely powerful potion and spiting it before we sell it will allow us to effectively make smaller mana potions for less effort if it increases profit and makes buying extremely powerful mana potions worthwhile. Oops.
Post by: Grek on January 27, 2012, 06:40:51 am
Post by: fergus on January 27, 2012, 06:53:18 am
I would like to specifically advise against the Honesty option. We really don't want anybody to think too much about us and doing magic. Let people think that we've got lots of mana, but are otherwise mostly talentless and that we're going into the potions trade in order to make the best use of out talents.Putting my vote down for this.
Post by: Lord Allagon on January 27, 2012, 08:20:12 am
Seconded.I would like to specifically advise against the Honesty option. We really don't want anybody to think too much about us and doing magic. Let people think that we've got lots of mana, but are otherwise mostly talentless and that we're going into the potions trade in order to make the best use of out talents.Putting my vote down for this.
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 27, 2012, 08:26:09 am
Post by: Urist McManiac on January 27, 2012, 08:57:39 am
Mooching probably wouldn't work, but what the hell, we migh a well try it.
My advice: Work your 5 days and get your 18 gold. Make friends with the merchant, he seems like a cool dude. Convince the merchant to take you with him to the Jewelled Coast, continuing your agreement. The 10 day trip to the coast will earn you a further 36 gold, for a total of 54. Attempt to convince the merchant to sell you the amulet for 25, citing how we know that it's totally not dwarven and that we think it looks more like something the goblins would make.
I totally agree on this.
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 27, 2012, 10:49:32 am
IF they decide to let us go, ask her for the money for the trip to help us come home safely.
And once we get the amulet, DO NOT PUT IT ON.
Wrap it up, stuff it away. We want to get some idea of what it does before we use it, and we know almost nothing about it or what influence it might have on us.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 27, 2012, 10:53:50 am
And once we get the amulet, DO NOT PUT IT ON.I'd like to stress this. I agree 130%, do not put on or touch the amulet. When we acquire it, handle it by the chain or whatever it's on, don't touch the actual item. Once we're away, wrap it up and we will experiment to discover its function later.
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 27, 2012, 10:56:24 am
8001%And once we get the amulet, DO NOT PUT IT ON.I'd like to stress this. I agree 130%, do not put on or touch the amulet. When we acquire it, handle it by the chain or whatever it's on, don't touch the actual item. Once we're away, wrap it up and we will experiment to discover its function later.
Fantasy World Safety Handbook rule #1:
NEVER TOUCH THE GLOWING AMULET
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 27, 2012, 10:57:30 am
Also: Good news! We didn't do any random necromancy last night. That means spending our mana on mana potions successfully suppresses our random casting (at least to a certain extent!)
Post by: Shades on January 27, 2012, 11:40:28 am
NEVER TOUCH THE GLOWING AMULET
But it's shiny......
Post by: fergus on January 27, 2012, 05:10:40 pm
As far as mooching goes - that's part of why I want to see the council. IF they turn us down, we act depressed and mopy and use THAT as an opportunity to guilt our mother into helping us buy us a piece of jewellery we really want but can't afford.Yes to all of this.
IF they decide to let us go, ask her for the money for the trip to help us come home safely.
And once we get the amulet, DO NOT PUT IT ON.
Wrap it up, stuff it away. We want to get some idea of what it does before we use it, and we know almost nothing about it or what influence it might have on us.
Post by: monk12 on January 27, 2012, 07:05:13 pm
Post by: Felius on January 27, 2012, 07:14:52 pm
So, looks like the current course of action is "MOOOOCH," "Meet with Elders," "Meet Elana hopefully," and "Negotiate with merchant." I will note that 100 gold is a lot of money- your parents are fairly well off, being public servants and all, but that's still like four month's pay even before you consider a fair amount of their compensation is in the form of food/housing.We are not mooching for 100 gold, just enough to complement a bit to haggle down the cost to the amulet to say, 25 gold at the maximum.
Aside: We're getting stupendously well paid for the potions then, considering we're getting 18 gold pieces for 5 days' work.
Post by: RAM on January 27, 2012, 08:08:09 pm
And pretty...NEVER TOUCH THE GLOWING AMULET
But it's shiny......
Post by: Cellmonk on January 28, 2012, 03:35:10 am
And oh so very tempting...And pretty...NEVER TOUCH THE GLOWING AMULET
But it's shiny......
Post by: joemoben on January 28, 2012, 03:39:47 am
Don't forget shiny it's SOOOOO SHINY!And oh so very tempting...And pretty...NEVER TOUCH THE GLOWING AMULET
But it's shiny......
I...I don't know what else to say. I feel like we are pretty much covered at this point. Adventure Ahoy!
Post by: Rockowl on January 28, 2012, 04:54:05 am
This, coupled with the fact that perhaps our POTION MAKING SKILL WILL INCREASE OVER TIME. Or perhaps our mana-pool or whatever. Then we could make even better potions, and as we reach higher limits then the price should increase just about exponentially near the top. We currently don't know much about the potion market, but there's no reason not to ask the merchant about the world of potion trade. You know how, universally in all trade, high-end things are always ridiculously overpriced, even if they are only somewhat better than current standards.There's no point in making a potion that restores more mana then the mage can store.
That's a valid point, sure, but you don't need quaff it down all at once. Take about as much as you need and save the rest for later!
Also, Monk, if we make about a hundred potions we should be able to do so more efficiently, right? I mean, the speed at which we make potions or the concentration? [EDIT: Same thing lol]
And I was wondering if mana potions could be distilled. I can't imagine the crystal particles evaporating along with water. [EDIT: And even if they dissolve completely, like sugar in water, it should leave a higher concentration and eventually a crystallized residue.] This might not actually be the most profitable way of making potions but it's good to know. You could carry an extremely potent, high concentration potion, then pour it in a cauldron of water and start bottling and serving it in the marketplace. Not the most necromantic of experiments, but still, it's just good to know how it works.
Asking the elders, THEN mooching at mom's place. And for not immediately putting on the amulet. Wrapping it in cloth certainly is a good idea, just to be safe.
Post by: fergus on January 28, 2012, 05:36:06 am
And I was wondering if mana potions could be distilled. I can't imagine the crystal particles evaporating along with water. [EDIT: And even if they dissolve completely, like sugar in water, it should leave a higher concentration and eventually a crystallized residue.] This might not actually be the most profitable way of making potions but it's good to know. You could carry an extremely potent, high concentration potion, then pour it in a cauldron of water and start bottling and serving it in the marketplace. Not the most necromantic of experiments, but still, it's just good to know how it works.We would need to crush the crystal back down to powder, presumably taking most of the day to do so, and I expect that most mages would buy potions in advance, so there's no real benefit to doing this.
Post by: Felius on January 28, 2012, 09:36:40 am
Post by: The Alchemist on January 28, 2012, 11:18:56 am
Post by: Felius on January 28, 2012, 11:29:37 am
I was thinking with how we had to slow down the rate at which we released our mana to make the mana potion have a more of a 2:1 ratio maybe we can do the same thing with the vitality we get from steal vitality, we can try releasing it slower and see if that makes a difference in the apparent 3:1 ratio we have now.Sounds a good idea as well.
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 28, 2012, 04:56:44 pm
But all of these experiments should probably be saved for after we have built up a good pile of money doing it the normal way, whether for the amulet or other purposes. In case it horribly flops.I was thinking with how we had to slow down the rate at which we released our mana to make the mana potion have a more of a 2:1 ratio maybe we can do the same thing with the vitality we get from steal vitality, we can try releasing it slower and see if that makes a difference in the apparent 3:1 ratio we have now.Sounds a good idea as well.
One possibility is to wait until we get more mana to and continue normally, and do said experiments with the new extra mana.
Post by: Felius on January 28, 2012, 05:21:00 pm
Post by: adwarf on January 28, 2012, 05:29:52 pm
Post by: Phantom of The Library on January 28, 2012, 05:44:46 pm
I just got an idea, couldn't we use the same way we make a Mana Potion to make a Health potion by slowly putting Vitality into a crystal?A good suggestion, but it's already been suggested.
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 30, 2012, 04:51:16 pm
At some point, we should buy an animal of some sort, steal vitality (as little as possible) and see how long it takes to recover. If we ever have to drain ourself to perform emergency lifesaving maneuvers on someone, we want to make sure it won't cause lasting damage. And it's probably a decent spell to practice - we could make an awfully good (and simultaneously quite humane) hunter with it, since the process could conceivably be significantly less painful than an arrow to the knee.
We should also try using stolen vitality to make more mana potions in a day - we know vitality converts to mana, at the very least we could drain our health and then use the vitality to heal ourselves.
Post by: fergus on January 31, 2012, 06:17:58 am
Post by: Kitten Snot on January 31, 2012, 12:57:32 pm
Post by: Felius on January 31, 2012, 03:21:28 pm
Post by: The Alchemist on January 31, 2012, 04:27:15 pm
Post by: fergus on February 02, 2012, 02:28:32 am
So, looks like the current course of action is "MOOOOCH," "Meet with Elders," "Meet Elana hopefully," and "Negotiate with merchant." I will note that 100 gold is a lot of money- your parents are fairly well off, being public servants and all, but that's still like four month's pay even before you consider a fair amount of their compensation is in the form of food/housing.I think this is pretty accurate, although we might want to switch the mooching and meeting with the Elders because of this:
As far as mooching goes - that's part of why I want to see the council. IF they turn us done, we act depressed and mopey and use THAT as an opportunity to guilt our mother into helping us buy us a piece of jewellery we really want but can't afford.
IF they decide to let us go, ask her for the money for the trip to help us come home safely.
Post by: Owly on February 02, 2012, 07:01:26 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 02, 2012, 07:04:43 pm
How do we know that this amulet even is a necromantic artifact? It could even be, say, a cursed item powered by necromancy that drains life from its wearer. We have to face it, we know very little about necromancy and its possibilities. I advise that we attempt to refine our necromantic sight and identify it somehow. If that is too risky, we could send in a small undead animal and see if we can use our necromantic sight through it.We don't know anything other than it's got a necromantic aura, which is why I suggested we handle it with extreme caution. No matter what it is we can learn something from it though.
Post by: Owly on February 02, 2012, 07:10:47 pm
Post by: joemoben on February 02, 2012, 07:55:48 pm
What if the amulet actually has no powers and is only a trap created by either another necromancer or some authority to root out novice necromancers? We could be revealed the moment we set our hands on that thing.Gloves to start out with, and also,the amulet could also be a thing of great power. All of a sudden 3 necromancers pop out of no where. Although it is a long shot, They could have found amulets of their own which allowed them to get their own superior powers. I know its a HIGHLY unlikely but then again, so is 3 necro's at once. Also i have the belief that we are all connected and discovered our powers at the same time. They could have of just had a highly more easy way of practice or maybe they found necromantic artifacts.
Post by: Phantom of The Library on February 02, 2012, 10:32:12 pm
What if the amulet actually has no powers and is only a trap created by either another necromancer or some authority to root out novice necromancers? We could be revealed the moment we set our hands on that thing.Well, we're already being careful with it and if we go with that line of thinking we might end up like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_eZmEiyTo0&feature=fvwrel).
Post by: yourfears on February 02, 2012, 11:07:27 pm
What if the amulet actually has no powers and is only a trap created by either another necromancer or some authority to root out novice necromancers? We could be revealed the moment we set our hands on that thing.Well, we're already being careful with it and if we go with that line of thinking we might end up like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_eZmEiyTo0&feature=fvwrel).
u have truly dizzying intellect (i didnt watch the clip just saw the name. i know that movie way to well) also i agree overthinking could be a problem
Post by: fergus on February 03, 2012, 12:44:17 am
Post by: monk12 on February 03, 2012, 11:07:48 pm
Monk12, are you actually waiting for anything before you update, or have you just not found the time?
That second one, along with a bad case of general apathy. Since I'm not done yet (about halfway maybe?) enjoy this author's note I've been sitting on instead.
This, coupled with the fact that perhaps our POTION MAKING SKILL WILL INCREASE OVER TIME. Or perhaps our mana-pool or whatever. Then we could make even better potions, and as we reach higher limits then the price should increase just about exponentially near the top. We currently don't know much about the potion market, but there's no reason not to ask the merchant about the world of potion trade. You know how, universally in all trade, high-end things are always ridiculously overpriced, even if they are only somewhat better than current standards.There's no point in making a potion that restores more mana then the mage can store.
That's a valid point, sure, but you don't need quaff it down all at once. Take about as much as you need and save the rest for later!
Also, Monk, if we make about a hundred potions we should be able to do so more efficiently, right? I mean, the speed at which we make potions or the concentration? [EDIT: Same thing lol]
The speed at which you can infuse a potion is limited more by the absorption rate of the Crystals than by any particular talent on Your part. Hence, Brew Potion isn't a skill, it's a spell. Note that other forms of alchemy may have an associated skill.
And I was wondering if mana potions could be distilled. I can't imagine the crystal particles evaporating along with water. [EDIT: And even if they dissolve completely, like sugar in water, it should leave a higher concentration and eventually a crystallized residue.] This might not actually be the most profitable way of making potions but it's good to know. You could carry an extremely potent, high concentration potion, then pour it in a cauldron of water and start bottling and serving it in the marketplace. Not the most necromantic of experiments, but still, it's just good to know how it works.
Quote from: Pevo
It doesn't matter how much water this gets dissolved in- ideally, you want it to be enough that the potion isn't too grainy or sludgy, but not so much you have to drink a liter of the stuff just for 2 Mana. Most potion bottles are sized to provide a good compromise, unless you're making an outlandishly strong potion.
...
Technically, you don't need to get it that fine, but if you don't you'll have chunks of crystal in your potion, which will be tough to swallow at the very least... The biggest thing with size is, the Crystals are sharp, so if they're too large they'll cut you up pretty good- this is why you can't just infuse a crystal and eat it without any liquid at all.
So yeah, "Brew Potion" would be more aptly named "Infuse Crystal." Distilled Mana Potion would basically just be infusing the powder and not adding liquid. The liquid is just there because the Crystal is wholly inedible. Dropping your Kool-Aid packet of Crystal worth 2 Mana in a cup of water results in a cup of 2 Mana, and dropping that same packet in a bathtub results in a bathtub of 2 Mana. This works basically as you might imagine.
So, looks like the current course of action is "MOOOOCH," "Meet with Elders," "Meet Elana hopefully," and "Negotiate with merchant." I will note that 100 gold is a lot of money- your parents are fairly well off, being public servants and all, but that's still like four month's pay even before you consider a fair amount of their compensation is in the form of food/housing.We are not mooching for 100 gold, just enough to complement a bit to haggle down the cost to the amulet to say, 25 gold at the maximum.
Aside: We're getting stupendously well paid for the potions then, considering we're getting 18 gold pieces for 5 days' work.
Yes, you are being paid well- this is a consequence of being a magical elf girl. You started as a level one Elf Mage, which got you a 10/10 Mana Pool. A level one Human Mage would have more like 6/6. You gained a level and jumped to 12/12- the human would gain that same level and jump to 7/7. Elves have higher starting mana pools and higher mana growth, which means that you grossly outperform your human equivalent. Human wizards who put in the time and effort to match your mana pool normally don't need to waste their time and resources making potions for sale, which means that the supply of high-end potions is limited.
That said, there is less demand for higher potency potions, which means it is easy to saturate (har har) the market. You could make a comfortable living traveling between big cities and selling potions, and in fact this is probably what Pevo thought you would do when he offered to teach.
And finally, yes, your parents could make more money than they do, especially your Mother. Elves in general aren't terribly materialistic (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=96692.msg2795460#msg2795460), and your parents in particular put little stock in wealth, valuing community much higher.
Post by: GlyphGryph on February 06, 2012, 11:50:35 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 06, 2012, 12:22:28 pm
/poke/You're not allowed to poke someone else when you've been slacking in your own game!
Post by: GlyphGryph on February 06, 2012, 12:24:28 pm
Argument denied.
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 06, 2012, 12:35:56 pm
/pokes forsaken/\\raeg\\
Argument denied.
Post by: monk12 on February 08, 2012, 12:27:41 am
We could bring up the subject with the merchant of accepting the amulet in lieu of wages for the potion making. He gets several phials of potion which he knows will sell for a decent price and loses a 'dwarven' trinket which he may never sell. Possible he would accept, especially if he likes us.
You are awakened early the next morning by rain thrumming on the roof. Rising, you find your mother making breakfast in the kitchen, and join her for a meal of fruit and cheese, exchanging pleasantries and talking of inconsequential things. She soon leaves to perform her daily duties as Mage. After freshening up, you head out into the morning gloom, pulling up the hood of your cloak against the cold, soaking rain.
You squelch your way back to the Caravan Fair. Between the rain and the hour, there aren't many elves out and about, and the few you see are more concerned with their errands than with merry-making. You don't want to spend much time in the wet either, and press on to your meeting with Luki Revereorder.
You find Luki within his tent, preparing to do business for the day. There are no other customers here at this hour- the medallion is hung in the same place as yesterday, its supernatural pull as strong as when you first saw it. Luki looks up from his busywork as you enter, and starts rooting around behind his table.
Good to see you again, milady Nym! I have your supplies here- an empty bottle and enough crystal for a 6 Mana Potion. I'll pay you for the work upon delivery.
Thank you, Master Revereorder. Speaking of my pay, I've actually had a thought on that. I've taken a liking to that medallion you've got there- how about, instead of the 18 gold I was going to receive for the potions I'm making for you, I were to take the medallion instead?
Surely you jest! That medallion is an extremely valuable historical treasure- I could hardly part with it for that paltry sum.
Mmm. As it happens, I'm something of an amateur historian- just looking at it, I can tell you it isn't dwarf-make like you think. See, dwarves are given to hard lines and sharp angles in their art, and that piece is all curves and circles. An oddity, it is; a treasure, it is not.
Hmph. I'm certain that the appraisers along the Jeweled Coast will be able to do a better job of identifying it than you. Meaning no disrespect, of course.
Of course... but let's be reasonable. That medallion is a gamble, and you know you can make a handsome profit on my potions. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, right?
That may be true, but I have too much invested in that medallion to accept such a small amount. Not, I'll take my chances on the open market.
Too much invested? What do you mean by that?
It took quite a bit of convincing to get the original owner to part ways with the piece. I won't take a loss on it.
Uh-huh. What you mean is, you got taken for a ride on something you don't know the value of. If I were you, I'd cut my losses and take the sure profit.
I'm telling you, this is a valuable- nay, priceless piece of art, and it'll make me a fortune! I'm certain of it!
Alright, no need to get excited about it. I'll be back later with the potion.
I vote for asking the council as soon as possible - try to convince them. Offer to do diplomacy. To gather information, and then return. Offer to travel with a (different) caravan heading east. Note that one of the rangers has offered to escort and protect you if you leave. Focus on the benefits your trip can provide, especially if they give you some magical way to remain in contact with them (if such a thing exists, obviously!) If they turn you down, we'll know, immediately, that we need to change our plans. If they push the issue, don't just storm off - agree with them that they are correct, the issues they've brought up are serious, and they're right - you will stay in the veil.
Do a quick look around for Elana on the way - if we don't find her, so be it, but if we do, be glad to see her and tell her what's going on.
Stowing your potion supplies, you decide to meet with the Elders. You trudge back out into the rain, heading back to Yicelafo proper- you don't pass Elana on the way, and given the weather you lack the inclination to do much searching. The Elders meet in the Shrine- a small grove of trees and shrubs grown tightly together, their branches and leaves cunningly interwoven to shelter an open area about the size of a house. The Shrine is a sacred place used for powerful Life rituals, and doubles as a place the Elders can formally meet to discuss important matters.
As you approach the Shrine, you are stopped by a pair of staff-wielding Rangers standing guard over the vine-shrouded entrance. One of them addresses you in a bored tone of voice.
I'll tell you what I'm telling everyone else, citizen- the Elders are dealing with the Necromancer threat, and they will announce their actions later tonight. There's no cause to be alarmed- go enjoy the Fair.
Actually, I'm not here about that. I need to speak with them about leaving the Vale.
What? Huh. Well, hang on, I'll check if they can see you.
He ducks inside, and after a few minutes he returns and ushers you inside. You brush past the vines, stopping for a moment as your take in your surroundings. The interior is dim, lit by some kind of glowing moss growing along the tree trunks. In the center of the room is a large boulder covered in the glowing moss- atop it, the Eldest stands waiting. The rest of the room has no furnishings to speak of, and is filled with groups of elves- the oldest and wisest the Elven people has to offer, in large part composed of the Mages who make life possible and the Sages who hold the sum total knowledge and tradition of the race. They stand in small clusters, some conversing amicably, some debating, some arguing.
The Eldest beckons you to a place before the boulder, and motions to the crowd for silence.
Alright, alright- enough! We've got something new to discuss for a while. This elf has a petition to make. He gestures to you. Speak your piece.
Um. Thank you Eldest. I'm here to ask permission to leave the Vale. I've had the inclination to leave and explore for a time now, and recent events have only strengthened my resolve. I feel it would be inappropriate for us- the Elves- to hide away from the world, especially during this crisis. I can act as an ambassador, showing the world our commitment to peace. I can send back information so we don't rely on foreigners for knowledge of outside events. I can strengthen the resolve of the humans against the threats these Necromancers pose. I'm certain I could obtain an escort of like-minded elves to ensure my safety. There is little to lose by letting me leave, and much to gain.
As soon as you announce your intention to depart, there is a quiet murmur, but no outcry like you may have expected- likely Pevo's influence at work. Additional mutters arise with each point you raise, until there is a general clamor after you finish.
I still don't like it! With the Necromancer threat, we need to marshal our strength here, at home!
There is wisdom in her words, and precedent- Yicelafo sent delegations to help combat the necromancer Aban Dippedrumors some four hundred years ago-
Dippedrumors was active hundreds of miles away- Nightroar threatens us here, now! We can't afford to draw his ire-
We've already drawn his ire by being who we are!
An ambassador would help rally Thrimesdur against Nightroar, and could help sway the Jeweled Coast against the Pirate King-
The Pirate King already has his allies amongst the humans, despite the history of his ilk! How can we trust them to keep faith with us?
We can only rely on ourselves- Yicelafo is strong, if we stay united! We can defeat them alone!
If we cannot rely on the humans for support, how can we rely on them for information? This only increases the need for spies-
ENOUGH! Nym has raised important questions- we should take the time to consider them calmly and rationally. We will send for you, Nym, when we have reached our decision.
You make your thank-yous, but are drowned out by the renewed discussion- your request seems to have touched on a pre-existing debate. Leaving word of where you can be found, you return to your mother's apartment. You take advantage of your solitude to craft that Mana Potion for Luki, a process that isn't terribly interesting but certainly passes the time. You do a little cleaning, eat a light lunch, listen to the rain and generally wait for time to pass until one of the Rangers who was on guard knocks on the door, and escorts you back to the Shrine.
The various huddles of Elders seem to be quieter than before, although urgent discussion continues within some groups. They quiet as you once more approach the Eldest. He clears his throat as you approach, and launches straight into it.
It is the decision of this council that you remain within the Vale.
...May I ask why? I did give several good reasons, and I think you owe me the justification.
Simply put, you gave excellent reasons for an Elven presence in the world, but you cannot honestly make the case that you are the most qualified to be that presence. We have trained diplomats who can represent our interests, and we have qualified scouts who can provide us with information and know how to blend into human lands. You are unsuited for either task, although your earnestness does you credit.
So only the most skilled may leave? Is that how it was when other Necromancers threatened the land- send a token representative and be done with it?
The case has been made that a greater general presence could do some good, but ultimately we have decided that it is in the best interests of Yicelafo for as many Elves as possible to remain within the protection of the Vale. Most Elves within the Vale know nothing of war or combat, yourself included. We will shortly be announcing a new policy of conscription- if any Necromancer comes against us, they will have to fight through the combined might of the Elvish nation. Once the security of the Vale is assured, we plan to allow volunteer expeditionary forces to venture forth against the Necromancers.
And what will it take to assure the safety of the Vale?
We hope to see the common elf become proficient in the martial arts, especially as regards combating the undead. The Mages are even now dusting off magics not seen since the last Necromancer walked the earth. We will secure the borders through both magic and vigilance, and we will monitor the situation on the world stage to keep from being outmaneuvered. With luck, this can be accomplished in as little as two years- surely not longer.
I see. I suppose that's... certainly the safe route to take.
The safety of our people is paramount. Enjoy the Fair, Nym- when it is over, the work will begin.
The Eldest makes a kindly- but clearly dismissive- gesture, and steps down from his boulder. The Elders, satisfied at the judgement handed down, return to their discussions. You hadn't expected much better, but it is still disheartening to hear the rejection. Two years until they think the average elf will be skilled enough to survive outside the Vale? To most elves, that is a brief time, but you are young, and have a secret- it seems an eternity.
The more you think on it, the grimmer the future looks. Two years until broader action against the Necromancers- that means that in two years, the Elders expect there will still be Necromancers to fight. At the rate they are going thus far, Thrimesdur will be an Empire of the Undead by then, with the Jeweled Coast suborned or conquered- a gloomy thought, to be sure.
As you leave, you are stopped by none other than Pevo Zephyrtempest!
Pevo? What are you doing here? You aren't one of the Elders!
Neither are you, but here we are! Actually, I was called in to give testimony on the outside world- I am the only trained Sage to have left the Vale, which gives me something of a unique perspective.
Well, I'm sure you heard their verdict.
I have, which is why I wanted to speak with you. I thought you should know, your words did more good than you suspect.
What?
Before you spoke, the Elders were ready to just seal the Vale and be done with it. You demonstrated that the average elf cares about what goes on out in the world, and you raised good points in favor of involvement in the world.
Yeah, but surely I wasn't the first to think of them.
No, nor were you the first to say them- but you were the first to say them in such a firm and public manner. It really crystallized support that had been undirected before. With some practice and tutoring, you could be a great orator, I think.
Now you're just flattering me.
Maybe, but it's deserved. Regardless of how or why, you made a difference here- now there's talk of sending a delegation to the Prince of the West about coordinating the efforts of Yicelafo and Thrimesdur, and I expect the Elders will be more receptive to ideas about sending military advisers and the like to help.
Well, that sounds like a good thing, although I think you're giving me too much credit. I suppose I'll go enjoy the Fair while I can.
Take care, Nym, wherever you go.
As far as mooching goes - that's part of why I want to see the council. IF they turn us done, we act depressed and mopey and use THAT as an opportunity to guilt our mother into helpung us buy us a piece of jewelry we really want but can't afford.
IF they decide to let us go, ask her for the money for the trip to help us come home safely.
And once we get the amulet, DO NOT PUT IT ON.
Wrap it up, stuff it away. We want to get some idea of what it does before we use it, and we know almost nothing about it or what influence it might have on us.
Heading back out into the rain, you decide to swing by the Fair. The festival atmosphere is rather muted, dampened by the rain and the rumors of war and conscription. You spend a little time sight seeing with an eye open for Elana, but don't see her. Eventually, you make your way to Luki Revereorder's tent, trading your Mana Potion for the promised 36 silver and the supplies for tomorrows potion. You briefly debate visiting Omo, but decide to just head home already.
When you arrive home, you find your Mother has preceded you. It doesn't take much acting to look rather glum, and after helping prepare a meal you sit down to eat together.
Alright, so what's up with you?
Well, I asked the Elders permission to leave the Vale today- I was refused.
And a good thing, too- it's too dangerous out there for any sane elf.
Yeah, yeah. I'm still pretty bummed out about it, though.
Well, if you ever need anything, you know you can talk to me about it.
Thanks. ...Actually, now that you mention it, there's this amulet that caught my eye at the Fair.
Oh is there? What's so special about it?
The merchant thinks that it's an old dwarven artifact or a similar relic- I think he's crazy if he thinks it's dwarven, but it does have a certain something about it. Unfortunately, since he's convinced it is so valuable I wasn't able to argue down his price at all.
How much is he asking?
100 gold, at minimum.
Whew... you've got expensive taste, you know that?
Well, I worked out a way to make almost 20 gold selling potions, but that isn't nearly enough, especially since I'd have to get it to him before he left with the Caravan. I was thinking, maybe if I could get a small loan...
A small 80 gold loan?
Not all that much, maybe more like 30 more- I could totally argue him down a bit.
Nice try- I doubt you can argue him down 50% of his asking price, and even if you could I'm not going to float you 30 gold for a trinket. The most rewarding things in life are the things you earn yourself.
Maybe, but this is literally a once in a lifetime opportunity- the odds I'll ever see this particular piece of jewelry again are staggeringly unlikely.
There's always other pieces of jewelry, and we are immortal. Good things come to those who wait. Although, if you're convinced that it isn't an artifact, I could come test it for you- that might get him to drop the price.
What? You can do that?
There are ways, yes. A true Artifact is... well, it's almost alive, but it is a very peculiar form of life. Life magics can't affect it, but I know techniques that can detect it.
That's... I did not know that. It certainly bears thinking about. Something that is alive that normally isn't... it sounds like Necromancy to me.
It's similar, we think, but not true Necromancy. Dwarves are known to be innately able to make Artifacts under special conditions- we don't know much about it, but it isn't Necromancy. We know that Mages of all faiths could make Artifacts in ancient times, so it isn't just a dwarf thing, either. And it isn't Vitality that is inside an Artifact- it's something rather more complicated, you'd have to be a Mage to understand.
Are you sure it isn't Necromancy? Can you detect that?
Yes, I'm sure. We do have spells to detect Necromantic energy- the artifacts the Elders guard do not register anything like that. Maybe if we could deduce how exactly Artifacts work, we'd be able to create them once more.
Well! That's certainly interesting. In other news, you've heard that the Elders plan on enforcing conscription?
You redirect the conversation to the news you already know- your Mother had only heard rumors, whereas you had been there in person. Although you continue to make small talk, you are really thinking about this new information. Life Mages can detect Necromantic energy, and Artifacts are arguably alive, huh? Can your Necromancy affect the amulet where Life magic cannot? If somebody can prove it's an Artifact, it seems that Luki will indeed make a nice profit on it if he reaches the Jeweled Coast. If somebody can prove it's a Necromantic Artifact... well, who knows what would happen to it.
After talking for some time, you head to bed early, and enjoy a pleasant, dreamless sleep. The question is, what will you do tomorrow?
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: fergus on February 08, 2012, 12:53:28 am
If the amulet is actually an artifact, then it probably is dwarven.
We might be better of just stealing it.
Post by: somebody on February 08, 2012, 01:19:31 am
Artifacts might be related to golem making.It would be fairly obvious it's us if we stole it, as we're the person whose shown a repeated interest towards it.
If the amulet is actually an artifact, then it probably is dwarven.
We might be better of just stealing it.
Ask about the former owner of it maybe it will lead us somewhere.
Post by: Felius on February 08, 2012, 04:05:16 am
Of course, this is all hypothetical, depend of the chance of false positives in the normal proceeding of the spell, if the spell actually works like that, if we are even in elven lands when they start throwing these kind of spells around, etc.
Post by: Grek on February 08, 2012, 08:23:34 am
Let's make that mana potion for Luki and then see if we can't find Omo and tell him the news. Maybe he'll even show us a thing or two to get us ready to leave the Vale sooner?
If there's time, we can also say hi to Elana.
Post by: Phantom of The Library on February 08, 2012, 12:54:04 pm
Staying for training is definitely a good option, it would give us time to train our skills in secret, and give us some actual combat skills.
Post by: Grek on February 08, 2012, 04:09:54 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 08, 2012, 04:12:14 pm
Post by: fergus on February 08, 2012, 04:48:51 pm
I still think we should follow that amulet one way or another. It is the only source available to learn more about necromancy beyond solo experimentation and it could be very important.Yes, lets go to the jewelled coast.
Post by: Xardalas on February 08, 2012, 06:27:13 pm
Experiment: 1. Try to infuse vitality into the crystal to see what it does.
2. See what happens if you infuse Mana and Vitality into the same crystal.
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 08, 2012, 06:43:11 pm
Also: Can we create a golem out of a crystal? Could that then store mana?
Post by: Grek on February 08, 2012, 06:48:50 pm
E: Also, we can't do anything that costs mana unless we want to go back on our agreement with Luki.
Post by: Felius on February 08, 2012, 06:52:58 pm
That said, unless some pressing matters happens (they start testing people for necromantic potential for example), we should probably stay. Train up, make money and so on.
That said, ask Pevo more about necromancy, now that we have two known necromancers active. Why are necromancers always considered automatically evil? Do you think there's a chance of have been people with potential for necromantic magic that lived their wholes lives without actually discovering it? Is there a commonly accepted reason for why there haven't been more than one necromancer active at the same time? Pass this as you planning to be a sage. In fact, actually try to become a sage. Focus on necromancy so much because after all, you want to know more about the enemy that is plaguing this land. You are not a powerful mage. You are not a strong warrior. But you can collaborate by knowing about them and advising how to proceed. After Pevo, start hitting the books, ask access to all libraries you canm search for any ruins in elven lands that might contain a hint, etc. If you are discreet enough try to search the libraries and such with necro vision, specially if they are very old and lacking a index system.
Post by: RAM on February 08, 2012, 07:45:45 pm
That said, ask Pevo more about necromancy, now that we have two known necromancers active. Why are necromancers always considered automatically evil? Do you think there's a chance of have been people with potential for necromantic magic that lived their wholes lives without actually discovering it? Is there a commonly accepted reason for why there haven't been more than one necromancer active at the same time? Pass this as you planning to be a sage. In fact, actually try to become a sage. Focus on necromancy so much because after all, you want to know more about the enemy that is plaguing this land. You are not a powerful mage. You are not a strong warrior. But you can collaborate by knowing about them and advising how to proceed. After Pevo, start hitting the books, ask access to all libraries you canm search for any ruins in elven lands that might contain a hint, etc. If you are discreet enough try to search the libraries and such with necro vision, specially if they are very old and lacking a index system.agreed, although maybe with some of the phrasing altered, asking why necromancers are always evil instead of automatically considered so. It is often better to be considered ignorant of possibilities than compassionate towards enemies...
Post by: The Alchemist on February 08, 2012, 08:35:58 pm
Post by: Felius on February 08, 2012, 08:39:34 pm
Gaining orator training may help negotiate the price of the amulet. Also, stealing the amulet directly is a very bad idea. If theft is involved, steal something that can be traded for the amulet. Do we have anything that we can sell? If everyone with the magical ability is trained to detect necromancy, which may be the case with conscription, then it could be dangerous to remain in public, and experimentation would be extremely risky. And an outbreak of necromantic energy amongst the population would be a major concern and an investigation into its source could become the first priority of the authorities. Being in the midst of mandatory necromantic energy testing and purification would not be pleasant...We don't have enough time for the orator training before the caravan leaves. Stealing is probably a very bad idea as well indeed. We might be able to accompany him until the border and make a few more potions, although we won't probably be able to leave, specially with the father around.
Quote
agreed, although maybe with some of the phrasing altered, asking why necromancers are always evil instead of automatically considered so. It is often better to be considered ignorant of possibilities than compassionate towards enemies...Sounds good, although maybe at some point in the future we might want to plant a seed of acceptance in the minds of our fellow elves. :P
Edit: @The Alchemist: I don't think we should actually show much ability with magic other than our natural bigger than average mana pool. It's well known that we don't have aptitude for life magic, so it's not good to call attention to our magic, specially if we do anything that is not clearly universal magic. We should in fact study the theory though, it might be useful in how to counter, and what to advise the others to do against the other necromancers. Not to say we can't learn a few extra useful universal spells.
Post by: The Alchemist on February 08, 2012, 09:25:46 pm
Edit: @The Alchemist: I don't think we should actually show much ability with magic other than our natural bigger than average mana pool. It's well known that we don't have aptitude for life magic, so it's not good to call attention to our magic, specially if we do anything that is not clearly universal magic. We should in fact study the theory though, it might be useful in how to counter, and what to advise the others to do against the other necromancers. Not to say we can't learn a few extra useful universal spells.Agreed, and we can use our disguise of being a scribe interested in the world to learn more about the basics of magic, we will have to ask how the magic affected their past as well as if it was different back then just to keep our disguise. Although I wouldn't suggest it for now, we could also use this recording of history as an excuse to ask around a bit about necromancy.
Post by: GlyphGryph on February 08, 2012, 09:28:59 pm
Our mother has made it clear she can try to identify this thing for us - ask her if she can do it discretely so the guy doesn't jack up the price, maybe? Anyways, it sounds like if she finds that it IS valuable, she might be willing to help us purchase it.
Meanwhile, meet with Omo. Tell him of what we've learned - and of what we've accomplished. While we didn't get permission to leave, we did some good and stopped them from clamping down tight on the border. Reaffirm that we have every intent of leaving with him before the fair ends, and ask him if he knows where we can find Elana - and if she might have any knowledge on how to communicate effectively over a distance. We're going to take a risk here, of course - if it falls through, we won't mention Omo. He should be able to get out without us if he still wants to leave. But if it works, we'll have an ally on the inside.
Then find Elana - I've got a plan. Ask her if she knows any way to send messages over a distance with magic. Let her know we WILL be leaving the veil one way or another, even if it kills us, but we'd like to do what good we can for the elves in the meanwhile, and communication will be valuable to that end.
Post by: fergus on February 09, 2012, 12:49:25 am
I am completely, 100% opposed to waiting. For one thing, Omo has made it clear that HE, at least, won't. And frankly, he is far more valuable to us than anyone or anything else here.I agree with all of this.
Our mother has made it clear she can try to identify this thing for us - ask her if she can do it discretely so the guy doesn't jack up the price, maybe? Anyways, it sounds like if she finds that it IS valuable, she might be willing to help us purchase it.
Meanwhile, meet with Omo. Tell him of what we've learned - and of what we've accomplished. While we didn't get permission to leave, we did some good and stopped them from clamping down tight on the border. Reaffirm that we have every intent of leaving with him before the fair ends, and ask him if he knows where we can find Elana - and if she might have any knowledge on how to communicate effectively over a distance. We're going to take a risk here, of course - if it falls through, we won't mention Omo. He should be able to get out without us if he still wants to leave. But if it works, we'll have an ally on the inside.
Then find Elana - I've got a plan. Ask her if she knows any way to send messages over a distance with magic. Let her know we WILL be leaving the veil one way or another, even if it kills us, but we'd like to do what good we can for the elves in the meanwhile, and communication will be valuable to that end.
Post by: Angle on February 09, 2012, 01:07:43 am
Also - we should consider our long-term aspirations. I think being a notable good necromancer is probably a worthy aspiration, and it gives us a few good goals to work on - eliminating those other necromancers and cleansing the elven homeland.
Post by: Shades on February 09, 2012, 04:39:52 am
Our mother has made it clear she can try to identify this thing for us - ask her if she can do it discretely so the guy doesn't jack up the price, maybe? Anyways, it sounds like if she finds that it IS valuable, she might be willing to help us purchase it.
This sounds like a sane course of action, potentially we can learn a lot about what can and can't be detected and possibly have a merchant convinced it's not an artifact. Worst case is probably she notices its necromantic and the council confiscate it from the merchant. (which might not turn out too badly for us anyway)
Then find Elana - I've got a plan. Ask her if she knows any way to send messages over a distance with magic. Let her know we WILL be leaving the veil one way or another, even if it kills us, but we'd like to do what good we can for the elves in the meanwhile, and communication will be valuable to that end.
We should phrase this similar to our arguments with the council and how they are making a mistake with the token diplomat approach. That way even if she does end up telling anyone our stories are consistent and our reason for leaving believable.
Post by: RAM on February 09, 2012, 05:42:18 am
Post by: GlyphGryph on February 09, 2012, 07:24:18 am
We should phrase this similar to our arguments with the council and how they are making a mistake with the token diplomat approach. That way even if she does end up telling anyone our stories are consistent and our reason for leaving believable.I think we should tell the truth - tell her that our reason for going has always been a desire to study our ancient homeland and do what we can to help the people, and it is clear that that will not happen unless we make it. And we believe the things we can learn are more valuable now than ever they could be before - if necromancers threaten our home once more, learning how they did what they did, and how to prevent it from happening to our home yet again, is paramount - finding a way to reverse it would be nothing short of amazing.
Ask her if she knows anyone, skilled and willing to leave, that may wish to accompany us, but make it clear that we WILL be doing it. Do not sound brash and inconsiderate - simply dedicated, and focused on the mission at hand.
Post by: RAM on February 09, 2012, 06:56:15 pm
I would suggest having emergency supplies stashed outside of town and Omo's location memorised...
Post by: Angle on February 09, 2012, 11:33:39 pm
I support the idea of introducing our mother to the item, but prior to doing so we should be prepared for the scenario in which our mother determines that we are a necromancer. Say, by determining that the item is necromantic, and that only a necromancer could detect it without the use of specialised magic.
I would suggest having emergency supplies stashed outside of town and Omo's location memorised...
This is a good idea. Let it be done.
Post by: Shades on February 10, 2012, 04:05:06 am
but prior to doing so we should be prepared for the scenario in which our mother determines that we are a necromancer. Say, by determining that the item is necromantic, and that only a necromancer could detect it without the use of specialised magic.
Shouldn't be an issue, we only stated it wasn't dwarven so not an artifact just that we liked it because it was pretty (and shiny). Unless it's an ugly piece of jewelry in reality and we only find it shiny because of the necromancer vibe I don't see how we can be at risk.
Post by: RAM on February 10, 2012, 06:09:16 am
Post by: Angle on February 10, 2012, 09:25:07 am
Post by: Felius on February 10, 2012, 09:55:15 am
We should have a prepared getaway stash, anyway. Just in case.It's probably better if we do a few in fact. Keep one around in our house (for if we have a sudden urge to travel around in elven lands, or some research opportunity appears with a small window of opportunity), and a few in strategy locations (if someone discovers them, just say it's if you feel the urge to pass a few days in a distant fishing spot you can do it more easily)
Post by: Angle on February 14, 2012, 12:24:12 am
Post by: monk12 on February 14, 2012, 12:27:57 am
Hey monk, can we get an ETA on this next update?
"When it's done," which is true pretty much forever. I'm not even going to say when I hope to have it done, because every single time I do, no matter the game/project, something always comes up and then I look like a liar. I will say this isn't going to die because I never came back to it- I've written too much plot now for it to wither on me :P
Post by: Angle on February 14, 2012, 08:23:21 am
Post by: Ehndras on February 14, 2012, 08:55:41 pm
Post by: Ancre on February 15, 2012, 07:06:01 pm
Post by: Grek on February 18, 2012, 02:44:47 am
I don't blame you at all, monk.
It's ok, we're necromancers. It can die for a while and still come back, right?
Post by: Ehndras on February 18, 2012, 03:01:10 am
Alas, the thread is dead, cruelly slain by the new release.
I don't blame you at all, monk.
It's ok, we're necromancers. It can die for a while and still come back, right?
Indeed. ;) I'll practice my necromancy in Df Adv. Mode, heh
Post by: Phantom of The Library on February 18, 2012, 11:15:30 pm
Either that or EoA, its raise dead spell needs to be refreshed again sometime soon. :PAlas, the thread is dead, cruelly slain by the new release.
I don't blame you at all, monk.
It's ok, we're necromancers. It can die for a while and still come back, right?
Indeed. ;) I'll practice my necromancy in Df Adv. Mode, heh
Post by: Bluebiscuit on February 19, 2012, 02:19:07 pm
Post by: yourfears on February 19, 2012, 05:40:57 pm
Bluebiscuit casts: RAISE THREAD
+1
Post by: Mithril Leaf on February 22, 2012, 06:22:26 am
Post by: Ehndras on February 22, 2012, 07:14:14 am
Oh where, oh where has my GM-dude gone, oh where, oh where may he be?
:P
Post by: Bluebiscuit on February 22, 2012, 04:30:09 pm
Post by: Angle on February 22, 2012, 05:22:54 pm
He's online right now. dunno what he's doing though.
Post by: Phantom of The Library on February 22, 2012, 05:46:04 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 22, 2012, 05:51:07 pm
I'm going to guess that he is trapped under a large, heavy object by the name of writer's block.While being pummeled from both sides by Apathy and Obligation.
Post by: monk12 on February 25, 2012, 12:23:46 am
Spoiler: Author's Note (click to show/hide)
I am completely, 100% opposed to waiting. For one thing, Omo has made it clear that HE, at least, won't. And frankly, he is far more valuable to us than anyone or anything else here.
Our mother has made it clear she can try to identify this thing for us - ask her if she can do it discretely so the guy doesn't jack up the price, maybe? Anyways, it sounds like if she finds that it IS valuable, she might be willing to help us purchase it.
but prior to doing so we should be prepared for the scenario in which our mother determines that we are a necromancer. Say, by determining that the item is necromantic, and that only a necromancer could detect it without the use of specialised magic.
Shouldn't be an issue, we only stated it wasn't dwarven so not an artifact just that we liked it because it was pretty (and shiny). Unless it's an ugly piece of jewelry in reality and we only find it shiny because of the necromancer vibe I don't see how we can be at risk.
You waken the next morning, fresh and ready for the new day. After your habitual ablutions, you once again join your Mother in the kitchen for an early meal.
Hey, Mom. I've been thinking, and I'd like to take you up on that offer to test the merchant's medallion.
Alright- if you'd like to go now, we could do it before I go to work for the day.
Actually, I was hoping we could be discreet about it, just in case it is an Artifact. Maybe we could wait until tonight, so we can check it out when I deliver the potion?
If it truly is an Artifact, I expect the Council will outbid you for it- an item of such power could prove invaluable if it comes to open war.
Really? Are they all that powerful?
They can be- many provide only modest benefit, or perform a function that isn't terribly useful, but some few have truly legendary power. If it is an Artifact, it will take much additional testing to determine the nature and extent of its abilities.
Huh. Well, if you want to go now, let's go.
After tidying up, you escort your mother back across the bridge to the Caravan Fair. Though still rather chilly and dark, it isn't raining at the moment. You enter Luki Revereorder's tent- once again, the early hour means that the tent is empty save for the merchant himself.
Hello, Nym! Finished with that potion already? And who is this pretty girl with you?
Good morning, master Revereorder. You said you were taking that medallion to the coast to be appraised, right? Well, this is my mother, and I think she can provide a fair estimation of its worth.
Oh? Is she a historian?
Greetings, master Revereorder- I am a Mage of Yicelafo. I can't tell you its value as a historical item, but I can eliminate the possibility of it being an artifact for you. Now, where is this medallion?
Luki blinks, then hesitantly takes the medallion off the peg and holds it up for your mother's inspection. She matter-of-factly reaches out and snatches the item, ignoring Luki's slight wince. You are as attracted as ever to its beckoning necromantic energy, and watch with keen interest as your mother inspects the fine etching of the ravens.
She holds the medallion in the palm of her left hand, and her right hand begins to trace a circle above it. Luki gasps as a faint green light seems to settle down from your mother's hand, floating above the medallion. As her hand moves, the light ripples with it, much like a hand will ripple a bucket of water. She hums softly to herself as she works her magic, concentrating intently.
Suddenly, you notice the purple glow of the medallion... shift. At first you think your eyes tricked you, but soon it happens again, then again- the glow seems to pulse now, in time with the green light. With each pulse, you see the purple glow reach a little higher, and the green light sink lower. Finally, the energies meet, and your mother dismisses the spell with a surprised look on her face.
Well! It seems you were right, master Revereorder- this is indeed an artifact.
Really?!? You're sure? What does it do?
I cannot say without extensive testing. You were asking for 100 gold for this item?
I- yes, but that was before I knew for sure it was an artifact.
Fear not, Yicelafo will not cheat you of your merchandise. I'll send somebody back here with the power to make you an offer I'm sure you will find quite generous.
Well, I suppose I can consider such an offer, can't I? Thank you very much for this service, milady!
Good day, master Revereorder.
Meanwhile, meet with Omo. Tell him of what we've learned - and of what we've accomplished. While we didn't get permission to leave, we did some good and stopped them from clamping down tight on the border. Reaffirm that we have every intent of leaving with him before the fair ends, and ask him if he knows where we can find Elana - and if she might have any knowledge on how to communicate effectively over a distance. We're going to take a risk here, of course - if it falls through, we won't mention Omo. He should be able to get out without us if he still wants to leave. But if it works, we'll have an ally on the inside.
You leave with your mother, somewhat dejected. If the Mages throw piles of gold at Luki to obtain the medallion, there is no way you'll get your hands on it short of theft, and that theft would be difficult if they are actively studying it. You say your goodbyes as she heads off to the Temple, and you head off after Omo.
You find him sitting with a festive group of Elves enjoying the break in the weather. When Omo sees you, he rises and comes away from the group to speak to you.
So? What's the good word?
Well, asking the Elders went about as you predicted. Nowhere fast.
Bloody hell. Well, it was worth a shot. You're still game to leave anyway?
Of course! And it wasn't all bad- it sounds like they won't be shutting down the border until after the Fair, and I think I may have tipped the balance toward reaching out to the Humans instead of just sealing ourselves off from the conflict.
Oh, you did all that but you couldn't get permission to leave? A strange world you live in.
Shut up! We should be good to go before the end of the Fair, I'm just going to wrap up some loose ends. Speaking of, have you seen Elana?
Some loose ends! As a matter of fact, I did see her the other day- she's staying with a friend in the city. Are you two... cool now?
Well, we were never precisely not cool, and I would like to say goodbye before we leave. We may not meet again for years.
True enough, I suppose. We all have people and things important to us.
Then find Elana - I've got a plan. Ask her if she knows any way to send messages over a distance with magic. Let her know we WILL be leaving the veil one way or another, even if it kills us, but we'd like to do what good we can for the elves in the meanwhile, and communication will be valuable to that end.
Yes, getting the amulet confiscated would be better than nothing - in my mind, the most important thing we can do with it is keeping it from reaching the jeweled coast and getting snatched up by the guy there.We should phrase this similar to our arguments with the council and how they are making a mistake with the token diplomat approach. That way even if she does end up telling anyone our stories are consistent and our reason for leaving believable.I think we should tell the truth - tell her that our reason for going has always been a desire to study our ancient homeland and do what we can to help the people, and it is clear that that will not happen unless we make it. And we believe the things we can learn are more valuable now than ever they could be before - if necromancers threaten our home once more, learning how they did what they did, and how to prevent it from happening to our home yet again, is paramount - finding a way to reverse it would be nothing short of amazing.
Ask her if she knows anyone, skilled and willing to leave, that may wish to accompany us, but make it clear that we WILL be doing it. Do not sound brash and inconsiderate - simply dedicated, and focused on the mission at hand.
You don't need much in the way of directions from Omo- once you catch the name of Elana's friend, you know where to go. Your path takes you deeper into Yicelafo, past the Great Temple and Shrine into the heart of the residential district. The treehouses are stacked thickly here, to the point that they touch the ground, making the tree appear to be a single large apartment with a living canopy for a roof. It is in one of these residential blocks that you find the right home, tucked on ground level astride a massive root.
Elana herself answers the door, and for a moment it's like you are seeing her again for the first time. Her carefully braided hair is strawberry-blonde, a rarity among the elves. Almond eyes in a fair face regard you with surprise. Simple, warm clothing adds little breadth to her slight frame- she almost seems to be an adult in a child's body, and though you are no giant you stand nearly a full head taller.
Elana seems to hesitate a moment before inviting you in. You greet her friend, an older woman you know only through your association with Elana. After exchanging pleasantries and being a generally good hostess, she seems to catch the mood in the air and decides this would be an opportune time to go grocery shopping. The room is silent for a long moment after the door closes behind her.
...well- I didn't expect to see you here, after your last letter, Nym.
Yeah, well... you heard about the Necromancers, I trust.
I did. I'm sorry your trip was canceled, but really, it's probably for the best.
About that- I plan on leaving anyway.
What! What could possibly be possessing you to hare off into a warzone!?!
Well, it seems to me that I can do more good learning more about our ancestral homeland and how it was destroyed than cooped up here at home. Maybe there's a clue that can keep it from happening again.
That's crazy! You'd have to be a Mage to find out anything, and that's if there was anything more to find out! The Sacred Grove is a waste, and you're wasting your time if you go out there!
Oh come on, to hear you talk taking one step outside of Yicelafo is a death sentence. Weren't you always trying to get me to do something with my life?
I meant use your life to get a good job, help out society, not throw it away because you've got itchy feet!
I am going to help out society, better than I could if I were just going to hold a spear the day the Necromancer's armies come knocking at the door!
You are both quiet for a moment.
...oh, be careful, you stubborn fool. Just be careful.
Aren't I always? Besides, it can't be as bad as all that out there. Heck, the last place the Necromancer is likely to be is in the middle of an uninhabited wasteland! There aren't even any bodies there for him to... utilize.
I'd have said desecrate, but I take your meaning.
Do you know anybody else who wanted to leave the Vale? Maybe somebody who would be willing to help me?
Ha! You're the only one I know foolish enough to leave the Vale in the middle of a war.
Hey, technically, we aren't at war yet.
Yeah, now tell me another.
Alright, how about this- do you know of any way to magically communicate across distances?
Myself? No, but I know it is possible. I know I've seen the Life Mages use animal messengers, but I'm pretty sure there's a general magic spell that lets you send messages across distances.
Do you know anyone who could teach me? It'd be terribly helpful.
I imagine one of the Life Mages could teach you, but from what I gather it is somewhat difficult and involved- that's why they normally just send animal messengers.
How does that work, anyway? Can they control the animals?
No, but it isn't that hard to communicate with them using Life magic, after a fashion, and animals are pretty easy to bribe. Ha, not the most reliable though- one time, a Mage sent a sparrow with a message to summon me for a lesson, but I never got it. He found the bird holed up in his nest with his lady love- apparently some more immediate concerns came up en route.
Ha! That's rich. Well, I won't take up any more of your time- take care of yourself, if I don't see you again before I leave.
You stand to make your goodbyes, and impulsively give Elana a big bear hug. She stiffens in surprise for a moment before hugging you back fiercely. After a long moment, you separate, and exit the apartment.
That said, ask Pevo more about necromancy, now that we have two known necromancers active. Why are necromancers always considered automatically evil? Do you think there's a chance of have been people with potential for necromantic magic that lived their wholes lives without actually discovering it? Is there a commonly accepted reason for why there haven't been more than one necromancer active at the same time? Pass this as you planning to be a sage. In fact, actually try to become a sage. Focus on necromancy so much because after all, you want to know more about the enemy that is plaguing this land. You are not a powerful mage. You are not a strong warrior. But you can collaborate by knowing about them and advising how to proceed. After Pevo, start hitting the books, ask access to all libraries you canm search for any ruins in elven lands that might contain a hint, etc. If you are discreet enough try to search the libraries and such with necro vision, specially if they are very old and lacking a index system.
Going off of what Felius said about becoming a sage, while I don't think it will work out to well I do think that we should try learning as much as we can about the basic properties of magic, just purely the theory not practice for right now if we're going to stay for training then we can learn the practice of it. Also if we stay we can also learn some more general magic spells that might help us out later and help us understand the basics of necromancy if all magic contain some of the same basic rules. If we are still staying then lets find ourselves a place for experiments again, if not then ignore the majority of this.
Since it's on your way back anyway, you decide to drop in on the Great Temple and pay Pevo a visit. You find him in his quarters, apparently reading a book.
Nym! Good to see you.
Hello Pevo- do you have a moment to answer a couple random questions?
Certainly, though I doubt they are anything but random.
Heh- true enough. Well, considering the sudden surplus of Necromancers, I thought it'd pay to know a bit more about them. Has there ever been more than one active at a time before now?
No, there has not, not since the Golgothan War. The Golgothans were wiped out in the aftermath of that war, and for a time it was thought that the threat of Necromancy was done forever. However, much like how Life Mages will sometimes arise among the humans, sometimes Necromancers arise among them as well. It is not often the spark breeds true, but every century or two another Necromancer arises to wreak havoc on the world.
Why is that? Why do they always try to conquer the world, I mean?
Who knows? Some say Necromancy is inherently evil, but I don't think so. The Golgothans got along more or less peacefully with the other races before Balkoth came to power, from what I can glean of our remaining texts and what I found during my sabbatical in Thrimesdur. Some think that it is just because humans are easily corruptible, and Necromancy offers a unique, direct sort of power nobody else can control or understand. Some blame the meddling of gods or other forces. No Necromancer has ever consented to an interview, so we can't know for sure
Could it be that some Necromancers never managed to control their powers, or even manifest them without guidance?
It could be, and in fact is rather likely. Of the Elves we teach here in Yicelafo, many would not have utilized their power without outside guidance to start them on the path. That is one reason we test so thoroughly- if we didn't, we'd have far fewer Mages. It is a comparatively small percentage of magic-users who manifest their abilities unconsciously, without any outside interference.
I see. Is that true for general magic users as well?
No, not at all. General magic is a much more deliberate, controlled usage of Mana than the others- that's why the other Magical Faiths can achieve such greater feats. Anyone with a Mana pool can learn to use general magic spells, but nobody will just start spontaneously casting them.
I'm not sure I quite understand the distinction.
Think of it like this; the Magical Faiths are like the different ways animals can move through the woods. Wolves can run on all fours faster than we can, and birds can fly over obstacles, and fish can swim places we cannot. They are all different from one another, and none of them are really conscious decisions to be different, but they are all more effective than just trying to walk through the underbrush.
...I think I've got it, though it still isn't quite clear.
Well, it isn't a perfect metaphor- maybe a Mage could explain it better.
So is there any special reason there's never been more than one Necromancer at a time?
No, no special reason. It is just staggeringly unlikely. The fact we have 2 at once is likely just statistics catching up with us, to our misfortune. It'd take more than that for me to suspect something more, the way some folks have been whispering.
Whispering?
You know, the usual nonsense. "The End is Nigh, Darkness will cover the land, evil gods will awaken, fire and brimstone." All poppycock- we face a challenge unlike any since the Golgothan War, yes, but no need to go dragging in prophecies and ancient evils over it. We are quite capable of having a statistical improbability without anyone else having a hand in it.
Yes... of course. Well, I think that satisfies my curiosity for now. Thank you for your time, Pevo Zephyrtempest.
Any time, Nym, any time.
You leave the Great Temple and head back home as the afternoon grows late. You make another potion for Luki with the daylight you have left, resolving to deliver it the following morning. You ponder your circumstances after your evening meal- the medallion seems to be beyond your reach for now, and you've gathered quite a bit of information. Is there anything holding you in Yicelafo now, or are you ready to depart?
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: The Alchemist on February 25, 2012, 01:00:48 am
By the way thanks for the update Monk, really appreciate it.
Post by: Grek on February 25, 2012, 01:38:36 am
I'm all for going off as soon as the Fair's over. Sneak out while the guards are distracted by the merchants leaving.
Post by: The Alchemist on February 25, 2012, 12:45:16 pm
Post by: adwarf on February 25, 2012, 01:32:48 pm
Post by: The Alchemist on February 25, 2012, 05:58:38 pm
When we leave we need to head straight for our old homeland, if we can break whatever curse is on the land we can prove that we can return to the Elves, and openly say we are a Necromancer. Plus I have a feeling there is something of power in there we will need if we want to beat the other Necromancer's. That skeletal monstrosity is obviously a golem of some sort, and whatever is keeping it alive is what we need.While I do agree with eventually going for our homeland let's think about this its a barren wasteland with nothing besides that giant monstrosity which could probably tear us in half in under a second. We have no way of knowing how to remove the curse not to mention it was placed by a much stronger necromancer than us and even trying to do so would likely end up killing us. I suggest going through the jeweled coast and rounding about the edge towards the homeland. It's probably much less dangerous to go through that route than to head straight through a country that has a giant undead army breathing down its neck. Although I do agree with breaking the curse and using that as a opportunity to openly state that we are a necromancer.
Post by: yourfears on February 25, 2012, 06:23:35 pm
When we leave we need to head straight for our old homeland, if we can break whatever curse is on the land we can prove that we can return to the Elves, and openly say we are a Necromancer. Plus I have a feeling there is something of power in there we will need if we want to beat the other Necromancer's. That skeletal monstrosity is obviously a golem of some sort, and whatever is keeping it alive is what we need.While I do agree with eventually going for our homeland let's think about this its a barren wasteland with nothing besides that giant monstrosity which could probably tear us in half in under a second. We have no way of knowing how to remove the curse not to mention it was placed by a much stronger necromancer than us and even trying to do so would likely end up killing us. I suggest going through the jeweled coast and rounding about the edge towards the homeland. It's probably much less dangerous to go through that route than to head straight through a country that has a giant undead army breathing down its neck. Although I do agree with breaking the curse and using that as a opportunity to openly state that we are a necromancer.
we have managed to raise a few bugs and fish. and make a rock and tree glow the odds of us winning a fight with the super skeleton arent very likely unless we pull a brilliant idea out of nowhere.
that said i imagine we could steal its vitality and it would collapse but who knows how much s monster like that has. we may even learn a thing or 2 if we survive. might be a bit difficult to explain to our companion how we just stared down a monster and it fell apart tho.
i realize this post is me sort of arguing with myself,
simply put the pirate necromancer is probably the safer route but the cremated empire is in a war with an undead horde we could probably learn a thing or 2 from any fallen corpses from a different necromancer.
Post by: adwarf on February 25, 2012, 06:28:12 pm
That skeletal monstrosity is obviously a golem of some sort, and whatever is keeping it alive is what we need.
A spell, and creature of that magnitude have to have something powering them, and whatever is strong enough to power spells of that strength is most definitely an artifact of some sort. We need to find this artifact first, if we head through the Jeweled Coast we will be spotted by the Pirate King (Remember Other Necromancers can since our magic, and if he is strong enough to be the Pirate King he will find us. We can't risk that) It would be far easier to just head towards our old homeland at full speed. The human armies should keep that Necromancer busy enough that we can go in there, grab the artifact, break the spell, and then return to demolish the Necromancer's army.
Also since the monstrosity is obviously necromantic, and it has no owner, we may be able to bend it to our will, and make it ours. Along the way we can make several golems to fend it off in case we do need to run, or need cover.
Post by: yourfears on February 25, 2012, 07:11:40 pm
wow i came off as an ass in that.
Post by: GlyphGryph on February 25, 2012, 07:54:07 pm
Yay! Truth be told, this is about what I wanted to happen. The artifact is out of the hands of our likely enemies, and we may have just done a good turn for the elven defenses.
I think we are ready to leave. Get our potion payments, pack our bags, and head out - there is nothing holding us here, now. The world awaits us.
Post by: monk12 on February 25, 2012, 08:37:39 pm
1) Leave immediately, or time-skip through the rest of the Fair to get potion monies (at the expense of time)?
2) Thrimesdur or the Jeweled Coast? Or, I dunno, the mountains or someplace boring.
i may have missed something but i don't recall golems and raised dead losing their vitality over time. it may be just as strong as it was when 1st created. one can as you have that its artifact powered but it is just an assumption untill proven. for all we know the cursed land itself could be powering it, but a game with no risk is no fun so go for it and pray our gm had the same artifact power plant idea you did.
wow i came off as an ass in that.
That little tidbit dates waaaay back to Part 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=96692.msg2795159#msg2795159), where Pevo was describing his travels and the skeletal monster whatever.
Quote from: Pevo
All sand and rock it is, out in the wilderness far from human habitation. Nearby villages say it is bad luck, or cursed, and it may well be so. I spent days searching, but was unable to find the center of the Groves before I was attacked by a great skeletal monstrosity. Everything we know about Necromancy says that the creature couldn't possibly date to the Golgothan War- undead simply do not last that long without being cared for.
Emphasis on "Everything we know"- it's just what he knows from second and third-hand sources, it's not like he's a Necromancer or anything.
OR IS HE!?!
Spoiler alert! No, no he is not.
Post by: adwarf on February 25, 2012, 08:43:01 pm
Post by: The Alchemist on February 25, 2012, 08:56:15 pm
Post by: EveryZig on February 25, 2012, 09:50:30 pm
Post by: adwarf on February 25, 2012, 10:17:16 pm
Post by: The Alchemist on February 25, 2012, 10:29:55 pm
Post by: Phantom of The Library on February 25, 2012, 11:12:36 pm
Post by: Grek on February 26, 2012, 12:35:18 am
But remember, we do have to practice or else the practice gets done for us.It appears that we only spontaneously cast necromancy spells if we go to sleep with excess mana. As long as we spend most of our mana on mana potions or general spells, we don't actually need to do necromancy in order to keep from having accidents. Which isn't to say that we shouldn't do necromancy, only that it's not a requirement.
Post by: Phantom of The Library on February 26, 2012, 12:40:39 am
Post by: GlyphGryph on February 26, 2012, 12:44:39 am
But yes, once we are beyond the edge of the forests, we will truly resume our experiments in earnest. There will be one last thing that needs to be done, though, first. Perhaps a days travel past the boundaries, we will tell Omo there is something we need to show and explain to him. Remind him that he knows us fairly well, and we wouldn't have kept something secret from him this long unless it was important - and to hear us out, in full, before making any decisions. But we hope he decides to stay with us - we need him, not just for his abilities to fight and survive off the land, but to be our ethical compass and a reminder of what we have to lose should we err. Tell him you will explain the rest once camp is set.
Once we've set up camp in a well secluded area, ask him to hunt us up something for dinner while you prepare your story. Once he returns, start at the beginning. Explain how your powers revealed themselves - and how if you didn't use them, they manifested themselves on their own. Ignoring them wasn't an option, so you attempted to learn about them. You don't need to go into details about the specific experiments, simply tell him of the things you learned, and of coming to terms with this. Of your internal conflict, and renewed determination to do something good with what you have realized is a gift. Pevo has told us that not all Necromancers are evil - merely, humans expressing the magic on their own without guidance corrupts an already dangerous discipline even further. Our nature, our life experience, allows us a different path - though we are wary of the dangers, and we wish to rely on Omo to keep us on the straight and narrow.
Then explain how, with these powers, we believe we have a chance to do what the Life Mages could not - remove the taint from our elven homeland. Perhaps it will be beyond our abilities, but if nothing else there is surely something valuable to be learned. If we can learn how to turn our powers in such a way so as to counter the undead, even better - we can use those powers defending out people, should it come to that.
You can demonstrate the truth of your powers by animating the corpse he brought back from his hunt, controller it, and then killing it. Explain that the corpse is still good to eat - you tried it yourself, previously - and that nothing here is wasted. You simply have the ability to use the death for protection and discovery as well as sustenance. If elves have prayers of thanks or whatever, do those properly.
And then... we'll see what he says.
And we do, eventually, intend on revealing ourselves to them - when the time is right, but not before. When they can be sure of our intentions, and we can stand on our own two feet, such that if they DO reject us, we can carry on without growing bitter or resentful.
Ask him if he has any questions, and his opinions on things. Reaffirm that you are interested in his desires, and his recommendation, and what he thinks.
Post by: Felius on February 26, 2012, 12:46:00 am
I just don't know if we tell the merchant something unexpected happened and we won't be able to finish preparing the potions (if he's questioned, it'll give indications about our plans), or just leave without informing anyone (he might report us as a missing person, and then we could get a search party after us)
Post by: GlyphGryph on February 26, 2012, 12:47:35 am
Spend a large bulk of our profits on more mana crystals. We'll need this for our future income stream, and experiments. In fact, it might be worth it to spend ALL of it on mana crystals (and a couple containers, obviously)
Post by: Phantom of The Library on February 26, 2012, 12:49:56 am
Post by: GlyphGryph on February 26, 2012, 12:51:28 am
Make no aggressive moves - nothing to escalate the situation, beyond that.
If he wishes to leave and tell them, let him.
Then we will run.
Hopefully it doesn't come to that, though.
Post by: Phantom of The Library on February 26, 2012, 12:55:12 am
Post by: bombzero on February 26, 2012, 03:08:35 am
though i have never really been one for suggesting stuff in these games just love the stories.
speaking of which monk, you should consider getting a free blog somewhere and compiling your finished forum games into 'books' of a sort. with a link to the topic for those who like reading others comments as well.
Post by: EveryZig on February 26, 2012, 12:27:45 pm
And golems are awesome in the long run anyway.
Post by: Grek on February 26, 2012, 12:49:34 pm
We should try more with golems. I think it would look much better to display our power through a tiny clay man than through an animated corpse.This is very much true. In fact, if we become sufficently skilled at animating golems, we could stand a fair chance of just glossing over the whole "I'm a necromancer" thing entirely until people have already accepted us.
And golems are awesome in the long run anyway.
Post by: Angle on February 26, 2012, 01:02:48 pm
We should try more with golems. I think it would look much better to display our power through a tiny clay man than through an animated corpse.This is very much true. In fact, if we become sufficently skilled at animating golems, we could stand a fair chance of just glossing over the whole "I'm a necromancer" thing entirely until people have already accepted us.
And golems are awesome in the long run anyway.
and this, for later.
Post by: Ancre on February 26, 2012, 01:56:35 pm
And if we go ahead and reveal our secret to Omo, it might be good to know a little more about where he stand before that. Innocently chatting about all that necromancer war that close the borders, and the pirate king, and all that, might bring us some information about what he think of necromancy, and whether or not he's likely to turn against us if we reveal him our secret.
Post by: Ehndras on February 26, 2012, 01:59:39 pm
I go with just informing in a friendly manner, and if the GM figures it can be done, animating some sort of small golem.
Post by: Angle on February 26, 2012, 02:08:09 pm
Post by: Ehndras on February 26, 2012, 02:18:57 pm
definitely the Golem route, that should freak him out considerably less. As for destination, I say Thrimesdur. Those libraries should be useful, and we can probably learn some stuff from that other necromancer - perhaps even begin taking little bits out of his forces, Guerilla style.
Agreed.
Post by: The Alchemist on February 26, 2012, 02:25:10 pm
definitely the Golem route, that should freak him out considerably less. As for destination, I say Thrimesdur. Those libraries should be useful, and we can probably learn some stuff from that other necromancer - perhaps even begin taking little bits out of his forces, Guerilla style.Agreed it would definitely also be good time to see the effectiveness of golem vs. undead, assuming that we are in such a position to try such a thing.
Post by: Ehndras on February 26, 2012, 02:26:53 pm
Post by: The Alchemist on February 26, 2012, 02:43:17 pm
I can't remember anymore, but are there still Dwarves around? I'd figure if we team up with a Dwarf engineer we can animate metal/stone golems crafted by Dwarves, and wipe out the Necro army like that. Unite the humans, dwarves and elves against the necro armies and wipe them the f- out. An interesting late-game idea I thought up randomly. :)Yes I do believe that the dwarves are still around and I'm pretty sure they are near the Elven Homeland, pretty convenient if we're going that route I must say.
Post by: adwarf on February 26, 2012, 03:29:30 pm
Post by: Angle on February 26, 2012, 04:00:57 pm
Post by: Ehndras on February 26, 2012, 04:05:56 pm
We probably couldn't protect ourselves from a pissed-off fox, much less a massive army of abominations commanded by powerful necromancers.
Focus on learning the basics of the world, necromancy, magic, and travel a bit. Get better gear, study history, contact humans and dwarves, etc.
Post by: Phantom of The Library on February 26, 2012, 04:34:33 pm
Also, yes, never stop experimenting, knowledge is power, and the more we know the better off we are.
And the levels we gain from experimenting are pretty useful too. :P
Post by: RAM on February 26, 2012, 07:13:27 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on February 27, 2012, 12:52:46 am
I'll go with, for know, avoiding raising of undead in our explanation, unless he demands proof. But if he does, the golem thing really isn't an option.
Raising a dead branch or something might be, though... it's really a judgement call. Don't do it if he seems to believe us and doesn't want to see it, but we do need him to believe us. Let him know what we can do, and ask him what would be most comfortable for him IF he wishes a demonstration.
Post by: Angle on February 27, 2012, 01:18:48 am
Post by: Cellmonk on February 27, 2012, 01:20:48 am
I'll agree we definitely need more experience with raising golems, but I dispute the "more dangerous and questionable than raising undead" claim. It was suggested earlier that the kind of creature we steal vitality from affects the kind of golem, and that the reason we had a crappy golem is because we made it from a tree. I think that the reason we had a crappy golem is because we didn't use the alter golem spell to make it uncrappy. We know it didn't have sight until we used that spell to give it sight, it seems reasonable that it wouldn't have motion until we gave it motion.
Strongly seconded. we need to try to give it things other than sight and conscousness
we imagined seeing. we need to imagine feeling as well. and moving
Post by: Grek on February 27, 2012, 01:33:54 am
1. Wait until the end of the Fair, acting like normal. Bring along some rope.
2. Sneak out of the Vale before the merchants leave, on the last day of the Fair.
3. Once clear of the Vale (ie. across the river into Thrimesdur), start practicing necromancy again.
4. Do not tell Omo about our abilities right away.
5. Instead, try to create a golem body out of rope and sticks; just like the old rope golem, except with stick limbs.
6. While Omo is out hunting, you go fish. Steal vitality from the captured fish to animate our golem.
7. Try to imbue the golem with the ability to walk around.
8. Once we have a golem to demonstrate to Omo, reveal our powers and hope he doesn't freak out.
Post by: Cellmonk on February 27, 2012, 01:45:04 am
So, who agrees with this plan:
1. Wait until the end of the Fair, acting like normal. Bring along some rope.
2. Sneak out of the Vale before the merchants leave, on the last day of the Fair.
3. Once clear of the Vale (ie. across the river into Thrimesdur), start practicing necromancy again.
4. Do not tell Omo about our abilities right away.
5. Instead, try to create a golem body out of rope and sticks; just like the old rope golem, except with stick limbs.
6. While Omo is out hunting, you go fish. Steal vitality from the captured fish to animate our golem.
7. Try to imbue the golem with the ability to walk around.
8. Once we have a golem to demonstrate to Omo, reveal our powers and hope he doesn't freak out.
agreed. I think the spellbook idea should be included if possible tho. if we can get our hands on a spellbook, we should. even if it might mean a bit of theft.
Post by: Angle on February 27, 2012, 02:37:01 am
Post by: Cellmonk on February 27, 2012, 03:19:09 am
Post by: Ancre on February 27, 2012, 07:44:55 am
Otherwise I'm okay with the plan. Studying general magic is an interesting option too.
Post by: GlyphGryph on February 27, 2012, 07:59:29 am
Seriously.
Raising an undead certainlys break some traditions, and may be sketchy, but does no actual harm. But I'll concede on this point, since you plan to animate the golem while Omo is not around. I very much doubt the "different type of vitality" thing, but at the very least he'll be able to see the glowing eyes, and then we can snuff it in front of him.
Just make sure to keep it hidden in your pack UNTIL you're ready to reveal it.
Post by: Lord Allagon on February 27, 2012, 08:05:51 am
Post by: Angle on February 27, 2012, 12:34:26 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on February 27, 2012, 01:48:39 pm
Post by: Ehndras on February 27, 2012, 01:50:49 pm
I figure visualizing a needle or knife slicing something carefully is better than just unleashing a full-blown vitality-syphon on something.
Post by: Grek on February 27, 2012, 01:55:14 pm
Vitality, life force, whatever. We steal it from the living, killing them in the process, and I don't see how that's an IMPROVEMENT over raising the dead.Like people have said, there's no particular requirement that we kill anything when draining vitality. And the undead aren't evil, just disgusting.
Post by: Angle on February 27, 2012, 01:59:06 pm
Post by: Ancre on February 27, 2012, 04:50:26 pm
Post by: lockman766 on February 27, 2012, 05:01:50 pm
Post by: Dragor23 on February 27, 2012, 05:04:35 pm
Post by: The Alchemist on February 27, 2012, 05:08:28 pm
The problem with golems is that, for the moment, we STILL don't know how to actually raise a proper golem, AND we can only do it using methods more dangerous and questionable than raising undead.What if we stole vitality from an undead creature we made and used it is that just as unethical or is there a difference between golems from using the vitality of a living creature or an undead one? We certainly have no proof that its unethical but if it is then we can change our ways then, but right now golems do seem like the ethical choice.
Post by: Cellmonk on February 27, 2012, 06:26:30 pm
Post by: EveryZig on February 27, 2012, 06:45:01 pm
A crucial differences between vitality and souls are that vitality can be partially removed (though we have not yet done so to anything other than ourselves), grows back when damaged, and can be generated through magical means.
>Mass Raising
We could look into that I guess, but I don't see that as a very high priority. Golems tend to go with quality over quantity, achieving numbers via longer life expectancy per unit (by not rotting and generally being more durable than organic constructs).
Post by: yourfears on February 27, 2012, 06:49:06 pm
and i think its too early 2 decide what school we going to follow, between zombies golems and a possible 3rd choice we dont even kno of yet.(life magic had 3 schools.)
Post by: neo1096 on February 27, 2012, 06:50:54 pm
Zombie-Golems. That's the answer.Aren't zombies just golems made from once-living things, rather than things that were never alive?
Post by: Felius on February 27, 2012, 06:53:06 pm
for showing omo our powers go with golems.This. Let's get better at our powers a bit first before deciding between which schools we are going to.
and i think its too early 2 decide what school we going to follow, between zombies golems and a possible 3rd choice we dont even kno of yet.(life magic had 3 schools.)
Post by: lockman766 on February 27, 2012, 07:06:23 pm
for showing omo our powers go with golems.I still think the third school is going to be some type of healing. On a side-note whats to stop us from mastering all three we have quite a bit of time on our hands (if we survive that is) also I don't think we should reveal our self to Omo just yet. wait for a good opportunity(maybe give a zombie the stare of death.)
and i think its too early 2 decide what school we going to follow, between zombies golems and a possible 3rd choice we dont even kno of yet.(life magic had 3 schools.)
Post by: Angle on February 27, 2012, 07:09:02 pm
Post by: Phantom of The Library on February 27, 2012, 08:32:59 pm
Maybe just a string and stick version at first, a couple of spare threads from our clothing combined with a couple twigs to see if string and rope can function as muscle, if not then we're going to have to get really creative. Oh, yeah, and maybe a clay or mud ball for a head.
Also we should see if we can drain only portions of vitality from a creature. We should be able to, but it's best to make sure.
Post by: Angle on February 27, 2012, 09:16:06 pm
Post by: Phantom of The Library on February 27, 2012, 10:19:16 pm
Post by: Cellmonk on February 27, 2012, 10:39:13 pm
When was that exactly?
I remember we took a portion of the vitality of a tree.
Post by: Phantom of The Library on February 27, 2012, 10:48:13 pm
Ah, I see now, for some reason I thought that we didn't take all the Vitality was because we didn't have enough mana to do so.
Post by: GlyphGryph on February 27, 2012, 10:49:13 pm
Post by: Angle on February 27, 2012, 11:09:57 pm
Post by: adwarf on February 27, 2012, 11:25:21 pm
Hmm... have we TRIED stealing vitality from an undead we raised and actually got something from it? Now that it's mentioned... that is actually by and far the best idea I've heard, so far, especially since we can repeatedly re-raise the same corpse, getting plenty of vitality for our golems without hurting anything.Thats impossible, every time we steal vitality it reduces the amount I think the conversion rate is 1 point for every three we steal.
Post by: fergus on February 28, 2012, 12:12:36 am
Raising undead takes mana, not vitality. It's just a very bad exchange rate.Hmm... have we TRIED stealing vitality from an undead we raised and actually got something from it? Now that it's mentioned... that is actually by and far the best idea I've heard, so far, especially since we can repeatedly re-raise the same corpse, getting plenty of vitality for our golems without hurting anything.Thats impossible, every time we steal vitality it reduces the amount I think the conversion rate is 1 point for every three we steal.
Post by: GlyphGryph on February 28, 2012, 01:42:25 am
Also, we should try seeing how much mana we can pour into an undead - does adding more give us more vitality to work with?
Post by: Mithril Leaf on February 28, 2012, 01:57:44 am
Post by: Grek on February 28, 2012, 05:06:47 am
Seeing as raising a tree nearly killed us without producing enough vitality to produce even one VP, I think the "raise undead in order to convert mana to vitality" scheme is going to need to be put on hold until we've figured out either A] a cheaper way of casting Raise Dead, or B] a more efficient way of casting Steal Vitality.
Post by: Lord Allagon on February 28, 2012, 08:37:24 am
Post by: GlyphGryph on February 28, 2012, 09:22:32 am
Post by: Angle on February 28, 2012, 09:46:08 am
Post by: GlyphGryph on February 29, 2012, 08:15:38 am
Post by: Lord Allagon on February 29, 2012, 08:25:38 am
On our way out of the forest, assuming it is more than a days trip, and whenever we can't safely experiment, we should be making mana potions. Which is again why I stress we should spend the vast bulk of our money on those crystals so we have them.+1
Post by: RAM on February 29, 2012, 11:02:06 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on March 01, 2012, 06:25:08 pm
We don't have any more time to waste pursuing magical knowledge - we need to leave. An no one else is familiar with the sort of magic we'll be using anyways, at least not around here.
Something else to consider:
There may, in fact, be other peaceful Necromancers in the world. It seems painfully obvious they, even if the locals knew about them, would not be broadcasting their presence to the world at large if they could possibly help it. There's not actually a reason the Elves in particular would here about Necromancers that WEREN'T trying to conquer the world, is there? Especially since they are as insular as they are. Once we reach Thrimsomething, we might try to gain more information about it.
Post by: RAM on March 01, 2012, 09:35:28 pm
A list of available works that describe the process of evoking general magic would be useful, our budget would probably preclude anything over, say, 10 gold, maybe look into items up to 20 gold if they are particularly desirable...
Post by: The Alchemist on March 01, 2012, 10:03:24 pm
Post by: Cellmonk on March 02, 2012, 01:02:45 am
Yes I agree with obtaining some sort of a magical spell book for general spells, those spells will probably come in handy and if they don't, well knowing more spells can't hurt.
It might also have information on the nature some of the magic we come across. Creatures squatting on our ribcage sort of stuff.
Post by: Grek on March 03, 2012, 07:16:44 pm
Yes I agree with obtaining some sort of a magical spell book for general spells, those spells will probably come in handy and if they don't, well knowing more spells can't hurt.This is more something to do in Thrimesdur than something to do while we're in the Vale.
Consider: We have lived in the Vale all of our life. We've tried and failed to learn the general magic taught in the Vale beyond the most basic of spells. Either we, personally, are unable to learn general magic due to some inherent lack of magical talent on our part, or else we, as a necromancer, are unable to learn from life magic users because of some incompatability between our magical understandings.
Post by: The Alchemist on March 03, 2012, 08:25:23 pm
There's nothing stopping us from learning general magic, we were very talented in magic as a child as per our history. We just couldn't learn life magic because we are a necromancer. We were still able to learn potion making, so I don't believe there is anything that stops us from learning general magic, but we will find out when we try to learn new general spells.Yes I agree with obtaining some sort of a magical spell book for general spells, those spells will probably come in handy and if they don't, well knowing more spells can't hurt.This is more something to do in Thrimesdur than something to do while we're in the Vale.
Consider: We have lived in the Vale all of our life. We've tried and failed to learn the general magic taught in the Vale beyond the most basic of spells. Either we, personally, are unable to learn general magic due to some inherent lack of magical talent on our part, or else we, as a necromancer, are unable to learn from life magic users because of some incompatability between our magical understandings.
Post by: RAM on March 03, 2012, 09:09:46 pm
Post by: Cellmonk on March 03, 2012, 09:17:36 pm
Why not just go to a vendor of knowledge and see what is available?
Hear-hear!
Post by: racnor on March 04, 2012, 06:29:35 pm
EDIT-oops, it was Ari who told us about the crystals
Post by: Felius on March 04, 2012, 06:39:07 pm
I think most books we find here would be available in Thrimsdur for free, with the empire's famous ancient libraries. Mana crystals will probably be cheaper there as well (Pevo said that the elves imported it from Thrimesdur and the coast when we were first discussing it) so we shouldn't buy them for experiments until we get there. I do agree that we should see what knowledge we can find/buy here first though.We probably should buy at least a few mana points worth of crystals, not to experiment, but to create a potion for emergency situations. Plus, we can use the travel time to make some potions, and sell them before/when we arrive.
Post by: RAM on March 04, 2012, 06:57:53 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on March 04, 2012, 07:25:11 pm
Post by: The Alchemist on March 04, 2012, 10:21:44 pm
Post by: Felius on March 04, 2012, 10:26:24 pm
I know this is a stupid theory, but what if all artifacts were created by necromancers. It would explain why none have been made in a while and why nobody knows how to make artifacts. If we ever find any known artifacts we can easily see if this is true. If it is true then we have another goal to reach, making some type of artifact.Maybe powered by life force, souls, or similar? Hmm, it might be interesting investigating once we get a very good power base, much more power and knowledge of our abilities, although we shouldn't get our hopes up on this.
And about the ethical concerns, we can probably bypass this a bit by using those who "deserve" it. Basically, if we get a proper power base, we could ask for those condemned of horrendous capital crimes for experimentation instead of just being killed. That or we can ask for those who would be ok with donating themselves for SCIENCE! after they are dead, maybe the terminally ill, giving the options for death row criminals. Maybe with the with a compensation for the family to make the deal sweeter.
Of course, this is all for a very far away future, no point in worrying about it now.
Post by: racnor on March 04, 2012, 10:43:08 pm
Also, the dwarves can still make artifacts, they just don't know how to control it.
Post by: bombzero on March 04, 2012, 11:24:30 pm
one of our long term goals should be to try to appear as a 'good' necromancer, while it will be difficult, its better to be a warily accepted antihero than a hunted outcast.
seems to fit what our characters personality has been set up as so far.
Post by: lockman766 on March 05, 2012, 05:26:11 pm
despite what i said earlier, i have something to add.well considering we are a "good" necromancer it couldn't be that hard to seem to be one.
one of our long term goals should be to try to appear as a 'good' necromancer, while it will be difficult, its better to be a warily accepted antihero than a hunted outcast.
seems to fit what our characters personality has been set up as so far.
Post by: bombzero on March 05, 2012, 05:27:58 pm
we will probably have to go out of out way to 'prove' this, maybe even making a point of standing against these other necromancers.
Post by: lockman766 on March 05, 2012, 05:42:27 pm
well considering current worldwide stigma to necromancy, it will be damned hard to convince others of that, regardless of our actions.Point taken.
we will probably have to go out of out way to 'prove' this, maybe even making a point of standing against these other necromancers.
Post by: adwarf on March 05, 2012, 05:49:28 pm
Post by: Cellmonk on March 05, 2012, 06:17:52 pm
I think we should head to the Dwarves, spending no longer then a day in any city besides theirs, they have the highest chance to accept us for what we are, and I have a feeling they may be able to help us in making golems, and may even have records of old necromancers who were good like us.
To the dwarves! aye, that should be our long term goal. Dwarves are fine folk, and makers of artifacts as well. Plus we know the least about them. they'd be interesting to study. Since they keep such stuborn strongholds, I imagine they have archives of the ancient ages.
Post by: racnor on March 05, 2012, 07:13:47 pm
Post by: bombzero on March 05, 2012, 07:20:13 pm
Post by: RAM on March 05, 2012, 09:02:44 pm
Post by: Koronii on March 06, 2012, 12:21:20 am
Post by: Cellmonk on March 06, 2012, 01:21:41 am
Is it harder or easier for us to kill an undead with our powers? Because if we can just steal the vitality back from them without much effort we could probably mess up the other necromancer's plans.
Not really... the other necromancer would have far more experiance than us. The only thing that would give us an advantage is if we could convert vitality to mana, or have a larger pool than the other necro magma.
Post by: RAM on March 06, 2012, 01:38:39 am
Post by: Cellmonk on March 06, 2012, 01:49:13 am
There are probably thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of undead in the average 'Conquer the world' plan. I am not certain that one person zapping them is really going to spoil the plot...
Though if we could program a virus targeted against the necromancer's Operating system, it might work. If there is any way to tell an undead to tell other undead to tell other undead (etc....etc) to self terminate....
Are we certain that undead can't manipulate necro powers if they are told exactly what to do? I guess they need a mana pool...
Post by: EveryZig on March 06, 2012, 01:58:01 am
There are probably thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of undead in the average 'Conquer the world' plan. I am not certain that one person zapping them is really going to spoil the plot...The plot-spoiling happens when the zapping necromancer gets powerful enough to make chain reactions (such as zombie drained -> mana -> more zombies drained -> etc) and/or large area of effect spells.
Post by: Grek on March 06, 2012, 02:25:55 am
1. Imbue a small, uncrushed mana crystal with mana. Cast Detect Magic on it, comparing it to a mana potion.
2. If successful, turn the imbued mana crystal into a golem using 2 vitality. It is important to later experiments that we use exactly 2 vitality. Continue observing with Detect Magic.
3. If successful, attempt to Alter Golem in order to imbue the mana cystal with the ability to cast a cheap spell using the mana stored within it when commanded to. I recomend Detect Magic, since that should be easy to test.
4. If successful, continue to have the crystal cast Detect Magic even after it has run out of mana, in order to see if it can cast the spell using vitality like a mage can. Assuming this works, we will be able to discern the conversion ratio between vitality and mana.
5. If successful and the conversion ratio is > 3 mana per 2 vitality, have a mana crystal that is able to hold at least 3 mana wrapped in thick leather with a single small hole. Firmly attach this leather-covered crystal to a stick that is suitable as a handle
6. Imbue 3 mana into the crystal before turning it into a 1 vitality golem that will cast Steal Vitality as quickly and often as it can on anything that comes within 4 feet of it, draining the vitality into itself.
7. Note to ourselves that, because Steal Vitality works on line of sight, only things that come within line of sight of the single hole in the leather will be drained of vitality.
8. Enjoy our new lightsaber.
Post by: bombzero on March 06, 2012, 05:09:46 pm
I just had a rather interesting idea. In order to know whether it will work, we'll need to try a few tests:
1. Imbue a small, uncrushed mana crystal with mana. Cast Detect Magic on it, comparing it to a mana potion.
2. If successful, turn the imbued mana crystal into a golem using 2 vitality. It is important to later experiments that we use exactly 2 vitality. Continue observing with Detect Magic.
3. If successful, attempt to Alter Golem in order to imbue the mana cystal with the ability to cast a cheap spell using the mana stored within it when commanded to. I recomend Detect Magic, since that should be easy to test.
4. If successful, continue to have the crystal cast Detect Magic even after it has run out of mana, in order to see if it can cast the spell using vitality like a mage can. Assuming this works, we will be able to discern the conversion ratio between vitality and mana.
5. If successful and the conversion ratio is > 3 mana per 2 vitality, have a mana crystal that is able to hold at least 3 mana wrapped in thick leather with a single small hole. Firmly attach this leather-covered crystal to a stick that is suitable as a handle
6. Imbue 3 mana into the crystal before turning it into a 1 vitality golem that will cast Steal Vitality as quickly and often as it can on anything that comes within 4 feet of it, draining the vitality into itself.
7. Note to ourselves that, because Steal Vitality works on line of sight, only things that come within line of sight of the single hole in the leather will be drained of vitality.
8. Enjoy our new lightsaber.
you are brilliant, in a derpish kinda way.
Post by: Cellmonk on March 06, 2012, 07:59:05 pm
I just had a rather interesting idea. In order to know whether it will work, we'll need to try a few tests:
1. Imbue a small, uncrushed mana crystal with mana. Cast Detect Magic on it, comparing it to a mana potion.
2. If successful, turn the imbued mana crystal into a golem using 2 vitality. It is important to later experiments that we use exactly 2 vitality. Continue observing with Detect Magic.
3. If successful, attempt to Alter Golem in order to imbue the mana cystal with the ability to cast a cheap spell using the mana stored within it when commanded to. I recomend Detect Magic, since that should be easy to test.
4. If successful, continue to have the crystal cast Detect Magic even after it has run out of mana, in order to see if it can cast the spell using vitality like a mage can. Assuming this works, we will be able to discern the conversion ratio between vitality and mana.
5. If successful and the conversion ratio is > 3 mana per 2 vitality, have a mana crystal that is able to hold at least 3 mana wrapped in thick leather with a single small hole. Firmly attach this leather-covered crystal to a stick that is suitable as a handle
6. Imbue 3 mana into the crystal before turning it into a 1 vitality golem that will cast Steal Vitality as quickly and often as it can on anything that comes within 4 feet of it, draining the vitality into itself.
7. Note to ourselves that, because Steal Vitality works on line of sight, only things that come within line of sight of the single hole in the leather will be drained of vitality.
8. Enjoy our new lightsaber.
OMFG YES.
I wasn't aware that mages could cast from vitality. If so, so much is possible
Post by: EveryZig on March 07, 2012, 02:32:56 am
I wasn't aware that mages could cast from vitality. If so, so much is possibleWe kind-of already did that with the tree, but it wasn't intentional.
Post by: Cellmonk on March 07, 2012, 10:49:38 pm
We cast from mana with the tree, but the spell was to imbue it with vitality, I believe. I don't believe we were actually casting from vitality at any point... though I might have misunderstood it.I wasn't aware that mages could cast from vitality. If so, so much is possibleWe kind-of already did that with the tree, but it wasn't intentional.
Post by: The Alchemist on March 07, 2012, 11:43:05 pm
What happened was that because the spell took more mana to cast than what we had available and as a result we lost a portion of our vitality to cover the cost of the spell. This probably happens to every mage if they try casting spells beyond their level as I believe someone said (I think it was either Ari or Pevo) that casting spells beyond your level can kill you.We cast from mana with the tree, but the spell was to imbue it with vitality, I believe. I don't believe we were actually casting from vitality at any point... though I might have misunderstood it.I wasn't aware that mages could cast from vitality. If so, so much is possibleWe kind-of already did that with the tree, but it wasn't intentional.
Post by: monk12 on March 09, 2012, 12:03:12 am
So, who agrees with this plan:
1. Wait until the end of the Fair, acting like normal. Bring along some rope.
2. Sneak out of the Vale before the merchants leave, on the last day of the Fair.
3. Once clear of the Vale (ie. across the river into Thrimesdur), start practicing necromancy again.
4. Do not tell Omo about our abilities right away.
5. Instead, try to create a golem body out of rope and sticks; just like the old rope golem, except with stick limbs.
6. While Omo is out hunting, you go fish. Steal vitality from the captured fish to animate our golem.
7. Try to imbue the golem with the ability to walk around.
8. Once we have a golem to demonstrate to Omo, reveal our powers and hope he doesn't freak out.
agreed. I think the spellbook idea should be included if possible tho. if we can get our hands on a spellbook, we should. even if it might mean a bit of theft.
There are four days left of the Caravan Fair, and you decide to stay throughout the festivities. Apart from practical considerations like the profit potential of your arrangement with Luki or the last few things you want to do, there is also the knowledge that once you leave, you will not be back in Yicelafo for a long time, perhaps years or even decades. As well, you know that once you leave, you'll have to tell Omo what you are. You risk his friendship and perhaps your life, but you can't lie to your old friend- he deserves to know the truth about his traveling companion. It must be done, but you doubt it will be pleasant, and anything that delays that day is welcome in your book.
Despite Omo's growing impatience, you take this opportunity to enjoy the sights and sounds of the Young Vale and your fellow elves. You spend your time dancing, singing, talking, and generally enjoying yourself, basking in the festival atmosphere. Some days are wet, others are dry, but there is always a fire to gather 'round and merry making to be had.
Which is not to say you don't also accomplish some other minor tasks.
Exactly, no more elves, so it may be that we can easily acquire a beginner's guide to general magic here that would be the equivalent of a rare and powerful compendium of lost arts across most of the rest of the world. While one would guess that the crystals are available for the wide-spread potion trade and presumably come from somewhere to begin with... I don't know what sort of books would be appropriate, probably something portable with a large selection of utility spells, such as communication, protection from hostile environments, mobility enhancement. Something with enough information that someone could figure out how to use the described effects with study and practice, while being sufficiently brief that it could be carried without being too much of an impediment. Perhaps one very detailed instruction on a single magical effect and another with basic details on performing most of the effects that would be useful on a journey to a magically unusual environment.
A list of available works that describe the process of evoking general magic would be useful, our budget would probably preclude anything over, say, 10 gold, maybe look into items up to 20 gold if they are particularly desirable...
Oh, and I should add - talk to merchant, tell him you're glad you could help him turn such a tidy profit on the artifact. You hope it alleviates in part an unfortunate change of circumstance that means you won't be able to stay out the week after all.
Spend a large bulk of our profits on more mana crystals. We'll need this for our future income stream, and experiments. In fact, it might be worth it to spend ALL of it on mana crystals (and a couple containers, obviously)
You know that the elves aren't much on libraries or books, but the Caravan is in town with a wide assortment of goods- perhaps they have something. You decide to ask Luki when you drop off the potion the next morning.
Morning Luki, how's business?
Grand, milady Nym, simply grand! Your mother was as good as her word when she promised Yicelafo would make a generous offer for that artifact. Why, with that profit added to my margins I rather think I could fund a caravan of my own!
I'm glad to hear it. Say, you know the merchant selling Crystal, right? I'd like to get in touch with him to buy a little stash of my own.
I know him, I know him indeed, but I fear he has little to offer you. The same elf who bought my artifact for Yicelafo also snapped up his entire inventory.
Oh, no.
Oh yes, it appears you elves are stockpiling the stuff for the coming war. But, tell you what- as a thank you for bringing my artifact to the attention of the Mages, I'll sell you some of the Crystal I bought off of him- no markup, just 20 silver per ounce.
Really? That's kind of you. How much do you have?
I can part with five ounces, which would be enough for five Mana were you to use it in a potion. 100 silver- Interested?
Sold! As long as I'm here, do you have any spellbooks in your inventory?
I do not, but I believe there is a bookseller in the Caravan- he regularly makes the journey back and forth between Thrimesdur and the Jeweled Coast.
Thank you Luki- see you tomorrow.
It doesn't take you long to find the bookseller- his wagon is rather large, but he has little inventory out for display. Most elves care not for extensive reading, but there are a few customers in his tent examining ornate quills, a variety of inks, solvents, and other curious objects associated with the art of manuscript. The bookseller himself is a tall, thin reed of a man, with knobby knees and elbows, wisps of grey hair escaping from under his stained Rope Reed Fiber cap.
Good day, and how may I help you today?
Hello, I was wondering if you had any books about magic.
Hoo hoo! You'll have to be more specific than that, dearie, for I've many a tome on the subject.
Oh really? I was hoping for something on the performance of general magic, or perhaps the theory behind it.
The merchant pulls out a binder, and begins quickly scanning through the pages. Hm... ah, I possess a copy of Prestidigitation for the Beginning Practitioner by Joddo Meadtrust- it was first written shortly after the Golgothan War ended. An interesting story there- you see, after the Golgothan War, there were many villages who lacked a local Priest or Wizard to perform magic, since so many died in the war itself. Meadtrust was an instructor at the Wizarding Academy who was frustrated by the brief time he had to teach new Wizards and Priests their art before they had to return. He wrote this book in an attempt to alleviate the problem- he would teach them the basics of magic, and they could then take guidance from his tome to learn the rest on their own. Was a miserable failure, you know, most of his students were stymied by the overly technical language of the text, but once the rate of admissions and graduations returned to a normal level it became quite popular as a reference text for the more isolated practitioners away from the cities. Joddo didn't live to see it, though, died thinking the attempt was his greatest failure, and on one notable occasion he sought to burn any copy he could get his hands on to rid himself of the embarrassment.
Your eyes glaze over somewhat at the rapid-fire onslaught of information, and as the merchant gathers his breath you hurriedly interject, Sounds perfect! How much are you asking?
I have a couple copies, as it happens- one is a relatively new and more inexpensive edition, but if you're a collector I have the most lovely illuminated copy written shortly after Meadtrust's death, made by a monk at-
The less expensive one will be fine- how much?
Ah, for the obvious utility of its contents and important cultural context, I couldn't part with it for less than 32 silver and 5 copper pieces. There-
That will do just fine, thank you.
The merchant blinks, then excuses himself and retreats to his wagon. After a few long moments he returns, bearing a leather bound book somewhat larger than you had anticipated. Completing your transaction, you step outside and inspect your new purchase. The text within is written in a tight, clean script- there are intermittent illustrations and diagrams demonstrating one concept or another. Paging to the very back, you find an index, and examine the contents. There are a variety of minor divinations (Detect Vitality and the like,) as well as a handful of simple illusions, a brief description of the other Magical Faiths, some utility spells that seem useful... ooh, Message!
Flipping through to that entry, you find that spell is a way to send a message one way, at a distance. Disappointingly, cursory examination seems to suggest that the range is rather limited- a few miles at best. You blanch as you read more of the instructions- the merchant was not exaggerating about the overly technical language! It doesn't seem to be anything you can't figure out, but it will likely take some time and concentrated effort to learn any spells from this book.
I think we should head to the Dwarves, spending no longer then a day in any city besides theirs, they have the highest chance to accept us for what we are, and I have a feeling they may be able to help us in making golems, and may even have records of old necromancers who were good like us.
To the dwarves! aye, that should be our long term goal. Dwarves are fine folk, and makers of artifacts as well. Plus we know the least about them. they'd be interesting to study. Since they keep such stuborn strongholds, I imagine they have archives of the ancient ages.
However, the elves have a strong alliance with Thrimesdur, but the dwarves are probably either neutral or hostile to elves if anything resembling a tree quota exists in this world. the dwarves should be a second stop after we finish with Thrimesdur, and/or if our powers are revealed too early. Either way, we should ask pevo about the dwarves.
Another day, you find yourself thinking about the dwarves- perhaps their reputedly cunning craftsmanship could create an object more readily suited for transformation into a golem. Now that you think about it, didn't Pevo say something peculiar about dwarf/Necromancer relations? You resolve to ask him, and return to his room in the Great Temple for expressly that purpose.
Afternoon, Pevo, how are you?
I'm quite well, Nym- here with some more questions?
You know me too well, Pevo. Actually, I was wondering what you knew of the Dwarves- did you visit their lands in your travels?
I did not, nor do I have any inclination to do so- that people has a poor reputation.
Why is that?
It isn't easy to pin down- the Elves have had little contact with the Dwarves since the Golgothan War, and the history of our racial relations is one of the many things lost in that conflict. From what I can gather, the Dwarves of the Earth Kingdom were solid allies of the Golgothans prior to the war, as well as the Fire Nation. When the war started, the dwarves did not condone Balkoth's aggression and did not join his assault on Elven lands, but neither did they hinder him. Supposedly, when they heard of the near genocide of the Elvish people, they annulled their alliance immediately, but I know for a fact they did not join in the war against Balkoth until he betrayed and exterminated the Fire Giants.
Well, that doesn't sound too bad- they were faithful to an ally, and turned when his evil became clear.
Very reasonable of you, but it is difficult to get past the fact that, if they had stood against Balkoth from the outset, the Sacred Grove might yet stand.
That's the history, but who are the dwarves as a people?
Again, this is secondhand information, but the dwarves are reputed to be a hardy folk with great mineral wealth, and the finest craftsmen in the world. They are also an ancient people- they lack the stability and continuous line of Emperors that Thrimesdur has enjoyed, but their mountain halls and fortresses are older than the Empire itself. Other than that, I only know stereotypes- they drink, they are expert craftsmen, big beards, few manner, the usual.
Their fortresses are older than the Empire? Could it be they possess ancient knowledge of ages past, even greater than the libraries of Thrimesdur might contain?
It is possible, I suppose, though I doubt it is as well organized as the Cremated Empire's archives. The dwarves supposedly have a rather guarded nature, making it difficult for human chroniclers to get the full story out of them- there could well be hidden histories and engravings deep in the oldest mountain homes, unknown to the outside world and perhaps even to the dwarves themselves.
I see. Thank you Pevo, that was quite enlightening.
All too soon, the morning of your departure arrives. You make and deliver Luki's final potion early in the morning, and well before midday you join up with Omo, leaving Yicelafo towards the East and Thrimesdur. You are the only ones leaving Yicelafo before the final ceremonies and the grand sending-off of the Caravan, and the road is clear. Omo whistles a jaunty tune, pleased to finally be leaving, and you can't help but succumb to his infectious happiness. The time passes quickly as you sing traveling songs and enjoy the unseasonably warm weather.
After the first day of travel, you make camp not far from the river. Once you finish eating a hearty meal, you briefly confer with Omo about your route, examining the map Pevo gave you days ago.
(http://img.ie/images/95a1a.png) (http://img.ie/)
By his estimation, you've passed beyond the limits of Elven habitation on the northern shore- by the end of the day tomorrow, you'll be well away from any Elvish settlements of any kind. After that, Omo informs you, it is little more than a hard day's march to the river crossing of Larathor, a large human settlement on the Great River and your first step beyond the confines of the Vale. Omo cautions that Ranger patrols will likely be thick along the river, and you'll have a much higher risk of meeting them throughout that last day. Hopefully, Omo's knowledge of the patrol routes will guide you safely through.
As you fall asleep, you can't help but worry- when should you reveal yourself to Omo? Tomorrow night, when you will be in the midst of the forest? The night after, when you have dodged the Elvish patrols, crossed the river and reached Larathor? Later, somewhere in the wilderness of Thrimesdur?
You try to put such concerns aside and go to sleep- the next few days promise to be tiring.
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: bombzero on March 09, 2012, 12:15:17 am
Post by: Felius on March 09, 2012, 12:16:17 am
That said, when we tell him we should emphasize that we are not evil, we are still the same person we used to be, we just discovered this powers one day, and started testing it to avoid accidental magic, that our desire to get out of the elven lands as soon as possible is not due to us being evil and avoiding the elven government, but that we are afraid that they will be over-zealous and kill us first, ask if we are actually evil never and we really do not want to die. Also, comment that while we don't know much about our new found powers yet, we theorize it could be used to destroy the undead more easily than other means, and maybe, but just maybe, even purge the contaminated lands from the necromantic taint.
Edit: Grammarfix
Post by: bombzero on March 09, 2012, 12:20:13 am
We should probably wait until we are out of elven lands and in human lands before telling Omo, even if only to minimize the risks a bit. That is, unless we forsee having to use necromancy to pass through the patrols, in which case we should tell him before, since if we spring this to him in an emergency it'll be bad.
That said, when we tell him we should emphasize that we are not evil, we are still the same person we used to be, we just discovered this powers one day, and started testing it to avoid accidental magic, that our desire to get out of the elven lands as soon as possible is not due to us being evil and avoiding the elven government, but that we are afraid that they will be over-zealous and kill us first, ask if we are actually evil never and we don't do want to die. Also, comment that while we don't know much about our new found powers yet, we theorize it could be used to destroy the undead more easily than other means, and maybe, but just maybe, even purge the contaminated lands from the necromantic taint.
and get this information out as fast as fucking possible. before the shock settles.
Post by: monk12 on March 09, 2012, 12:20:31 am
Awesome! any chance of updates being a bit more common? or are you still bogged down with your other projects?
I'm still pretty busy with other things, mostly because I have a poor ability to manage my creative impetus. But hey, at least this is much less neglected than my Let's Play!
Post by: bombzero on March 09, 2012, 12:21:54 am
seriously, just take the DF forum game plot creation logic, (i.e. unusual situations like this one) and turn them into novels.
Post by: monk12 on March 09, 2012, 12:32:18 am
Post by: bombzero on March 09, 2012, 01:02:48 am
just sayin, some of the people who write the forum games on here put professional writers to shame entertainment wise.
Post by: Angle on March 09, 2012, 01:11:32 am
When we do tell him, here's how I think we should go about it. First, we should tell him we have a big secret to disclose, in order to get his attention. Then we should assure him that we are still the friend he's always known, and that we are still a good person, and that we intend to stay that way. Then we tell him we're a necromancer. Once he's had some time to process this, and asks for proof, we show him the golem.
In fact, now that I think about it, maybe we should try and talk with him about necromancy a bit before we tell him. See how he feels about it, maybe present to him the idea of using necromancy for good. What with these other necromancer running about, we have the perfect excuse. Engage him in conversation about them and shift to the topics I just presented.
@monk12:I think you're quite talented.
Post by: bombzero on March 09, 2012, 01:13:09 am
Post by: Angle on March 09, 2012, 01:17:15 am
And yeah, it's not ideal, but it's better than just randomly telling him.
Post by: bombzero on March 09, 2012, 01:18:34 am
Post by: Angle on March 09, 2012, 01:21:12 am
We shouldn't try and be manipulative, though. That's likely to backfire, and just a little too dark for me.
Post by: EveryZig on March 09, 2012, 01:43:59 am
Post by: GlyphGryph on March 09, 2012, 02:22:24 am
And we should wait until we are into human lands, away from people. Our first day in the wilderness - may it come quickly.
Post by: Grek on March 09, 2012, 02:58:26 am
Instead, we should tell him our story. How one day we went fishing and the fish came back to life. How we went to sleep one night and woke up from a nightmare to find that our bait had risen from the dead. How we discovered that the only way to keep from accidentally making undead was to exhaust our mana every day. Tell him that we're scared and we don't want to become a monster like the necromancers are, but we're also scared of telling anyone because they'd want to kill us. Explain that we've managed to learn enough to keep any accidents under control until we could destroy them, and that we hope that we can do something good with the power, something that will convince the world that we're not evil, not dangerous, and that, until then, we plan to hide our powers and keep out of trouble. If he hasn't attacked us yet, answer his questions as honestly as possible without incriminating ourselves. We've not done anything really wrong, so that should be easy.
Further, the golem thing probably isn't the best idea. Omo is sure to be weirded out by the idea that we've been using necromancy behind his back the whole trip. If he wants proof, and only if he wants proof, offer to raise a dead bug or something small like that. The golem can come later, when we're telling him about our plans to use necromancy to fight necromancy and defeat the evil necromancers by undoing their magic.
Post by: Felius on March 09, 2012, 09:34:46 am
Further, the golem thing probably isn't the best idea. Omo is sure to be weirded out by the idea that we've been using necromancy behind his back the whole trip. If he wants proof, and only if he wants proof, offer to raise a dead bug or something small like that. The golem can come later, when we're telling him about our plans to use necromancy to fight necromancy and defeat the evil necromancers by undoing their magic.
That sounds for the better. We should practice with general spells a bit on the way, which will also prevent us from going to sleep with too much mana.
Post by: joemoben on March 09, 2012, 10:02:12 am
Post by: GlyphGryph on March 09, 2012, 11:41:01 am
We might be able to use steal vitality to just knock him out/wound him/slow him down though. So that's an option.
But as long as we don't threaten him or come off as overtly dangerous immediately, or try to force his hand, I can't see him doing that to us.
Also, to repost my earlier post:
Quote
But yes, once we are beyond the edge of the forests, we will truly resume our experiments in earnest. There will be one last thing that needs to be done, though, first. Perhaps a days travel past the boundaries, we will tell Omo there is something we need to show and explain to him. Remind him that he knows us fairly well, and we wouldn't have kept something secret from him this long unless it was important - and to hear us out, in full, before making any decisions. But we hope he decides to stay with us - we need him, not just for his abilities to fight and survive off the land, but to be our ethical compass and a reminder of what we have to lose should we err. Tell him you will explain the rest once camp is set.
Once we've set up camp in a well secluded area, ask him to hunt us up something for dinner while you prepare your story. Once he returns, start at the beginning. Explain how your powers revealed themselves - and how if you didn't use them, they manifested themselves on their own. Ignoring them wasn't an option, so you attempted to learn about them. You don't need to go into details about the specific experiments, simply tell him of the things you learned, and of coming to terms with this. Of your internal conflict, and renewed determination to do something good with what you have realized is a gift. Pevo has told us that not all Necromancers are evil - merely, humans expressing the magic on their own without guidance corrupts an already dangerous discipline even further. Our nature, our life experience, allows us a different path - though we are wary of the dangers, and we wish to rely on Omo to keep us on the straight and narrow.
Then explain how, with these powers, we believe we have a chance to do what the Life Mages could not - remove the taint from our elven homeland. Perhaps it will be beyond our abilities, but if nothing else there is surely something valuable to be learned. If we can learn how to turn our powers in such a way so as to counter the undead, even better - we can use those powers defending out people, should it come to that.
Post by: Cellmonk on March 09, 2012, 02:48:51 pm
The name necromancer seems to imply evil intentions. We should instead call ourselves something along the lines of a life-smith.
I also think that showing the power to him is a bad idea, unless he asks and seems interested. If he truly hates necromancers, and would kill us if we were one, he wouldn't kill us if there was the possibility that we simply had gone insane, and weren't actually a necromancer at all.
Post by: RAM on March 10, 2012, 09:51:57 pm
Post by: Lord Allagon on March 11, 2012, 10:01:21 am
Post by: MikaTheCrazy on March 11, 2012, 02:04:47 pm
Post by: RAM on March 11, 2012, 07:58:10 pm
Post by: Cellmonk on March 11, 2012, 10:03:06 pm
Also, if Omo turns necrocidal, I am a strong proponent of running away...
probably a good idea. don't want to kill him. we should choose to tell him in a place where we could easily escape him. Though even that might be tough. Though I doubt he would REALLY want to kill us. he might try to, but not super enthusiastically.
Post by: MikaTheCrazy on March 12, 2012, 09:14:33 am
Post by: GlyphGryph on March 12, 2012, 09:49:44 am
Quote from: monk
Thanks for the compliment, although I suspect you overestimate my abilitiesNope. Your stuff is really really good, and as soon as my site's Alpha comes out, you are getting an invite and I hope you'll post it there.
/me grumbles something about how that was supposed to be this past weekend, but stupid server problems.
As always, can't wait for the next update.
Post by: Baneling on March 12, 2012, 02:50:00 pm
Perhaps the curse and indeed the monster/s there are fueled by the growth of things? So, say, a sapling starts growing -> curse saps vitality out of it, killing it and returning power to the curse and perhaps the monsters. Perhaps not.
Also, the main ability we have for combat is...what? We have pretty much no combat ability outside of beating people up with a knife, I think. That's not very helpful.
Perhaps a path of research should be a discretely necromantic ability that, I don't know, steals vitality and then gives it back to a living thing without it leaving the body? Maybe that increases the efficiency. Testing if range is a factor with spells is important - in some canons, spells dissipate, become more expensive or are impossible as range grows.
Just my thoughts.
Post by: Lord Allagon on March 12, 2012, 06:28:07 pm
Something I thought of, in reference to a later plan(Cleanse the Elven Homeland).This.
Perhaps the curse and indeed the monster/s there are fueled by the growth of things? So, say, a sapling starts growing -> curse saps vitality out of it, killing it and returning power to the curse and perhaps the monsters. Perhaps not.
Also, the main ability we have for combat is...what? We have pretty much no combat ability outside of beating people up with a knife, I think. That's not very helpful.
Perhaps a path of research should be a discretely necromantic ability that, I don't know, steals vitality and then gives it back to a living thing without it leaving the body? Maybe that increases the efficiency. Testing if range is a factor with spells is important - in some canons, spells dissipate, become more expensive or are impossible as range grows.
Just my thoughts.
Post by: GlyphGryph on March 12, 2012, 06:33:37 pm
Also, I wonder... how smart can undead get? Maybe not something we should test so much as research.
Post by: Grek on March 12, 2012, 06:42:36 pm
Post by: bombzero on March 12, 2012, 06:48:00 pm
Post by: Felius on March 12, 2012, 06:59:12 pm
Of course, that's all hypothetical to be tested after we are better established.
Post by: Cellmonk on March 12, 2012, 08:21:04 pm
If we can transform vitality in other forms of energy, we could possibly drain someone's vitality, keep it inside it's body and transform it into thermal energy, or maybe release all at once, making it explode.
Of course, that's all hypothetical to be tested after we are better established.
The vitality bomb! Steal vitality from the undead! put it into a crystal! ask an eagle to drop the crystal above the necromancer's lair! clean up fallout.
Post by: Felius on March 12, 2012, 08:56:43 pm
That'd be... quite awesome to tell the truth. XD But I was thinking more of making our enemies into living bombs. :PIf we can transform vitality in other forms of energy, we could possibly drain someone's vitality, keep it inside it's body and transform it into thermal energy, or maybe release all at once, making it explode.
Of course, that's all hypothetical to be tested after we are better established.
The vitality bomb! Steal vitality from the undead! put it into a crystal! ask an eagle to drop the crystal above the necromancer's lair! clean up fallout.
Post by: Angle on March 12, 2012, 09:08:51 pm
That'd be... quite awesome to tell the truth. XD But I was thinking more of making our enemies into living bombs. :PIf we can transform vitality in other forms of energy, we could possibly drain someone's vitality, keep it inside it's body and transform it into thermal energy, or maybe release all at once, making it explode.
Of course, that's all hypothetical to be tested after we are better established.
The vitality bomb! Steal vitality from the undead! put it into a crystal! ask an eagle to drop the crystal above the necromancer's lair! clean up fallout.
even better.
Post by: Grek on March 12, 2012, 09:58:36 pm
Post by: monk12 on March 12, 2012, 11:47:15 pm
I think we would be better off not bringing up necromancy beforehand, and instead when we show him the golem we should say we think that the golem magic is the same type of magic that necromancers use.
I think our telling him strategy was pretty much decided on pages and pages back.
And we should wait until we are into human lands, away from people. Our first day in the wilderness - may it come quickly.
When you awaken the next morning, you resolve to wait until you are in the wilderness of Human lands to tell Omo- surely no more than a few days from now. Crawling out of the tent, you find that Omo has snared a pair of rabbits, and tuck in to an enjoyable meal.
Your second day out from Yicelafo starts foggy, but warm. Spring is in full swing, and summer is on its way. You and Omo speak only a little, the fog muffling your quiet conversation, and soon you lapse into an amiable silence as you enjoy the serene quality of your journey. The fog burns off as the afternoon wears on, helped along by a cool breeze along the riverbank. As you travel, Omo grows more and more perturbed, sometimes stopping and peering at the trees uneasily. After the third such pause, you turn to him quizzically.
Omo, what do you think you're doing?
I've been seeing a lot of trailsign in the trees.
Trailsign?
Yeah, it's a Ranger thing. Little ways to communicate with other Rangers. Like, you see that flower and leaf tied to the branch with a vine?
How do you know that's a flower? Looks like a stem to me.
Yeah, it's a rose stem actually. Wouldn't do to leave the petals on the stem, you'd see it from a mile off.
If it's communication, isn't it supposed to be seen?
Yeah, but not by civilians, or enemies. It's kindof a Ranger secret. Anyway, my point is that I've been seeing a lot of it. A lot more than I'd expect to see.
So... what? I'm guessing this is a bad thing, from your tone.
Well, and I'm not sure, which is why I didn't mention it yet, but I think that there's a big Ranger presence on the border. The things I've been seeing seem to be patrols communicating with one another- normally I'd expect there to be one patrol on duty at a time, and with the Necromancers I was expecting there to be two or three, but I think the trailsign I've been seeing is between at least three different groups.
Didn't you just say you were expecting three?
Yeah, but we're not even at the edge of the forest yet. If there's this many patrols here, near the heart, how many are going to be out on the actual border? Are you sure the Elders weren't sealing the border yet?
I thought so. Maybe they decided to get a jump on the end of the Fair.
I hope not. This could get tricky.
Omo sets off, and you follow, somewhat troubled. You'd rather hoped to avoid any run-ins with the Rangers- you doubt they'll track you down once you're gone, but they'll probably try to stop you before you get clear of the Vale. That night, Omo insists on a small fire and a campsite away from the river, and you don't feel inclined to disagree. After inconspicuously Sensing Vitality to take the edge off your mana pool, you go to sleep.
You arise early the next morning and head out, digging into your trail rations for breakfast on the go- with luck, you'll be in Thrimesdur by sundown. Omo is visibly tense, and every few hours points out another piece of trailsign- a warning about a bear den here, a guide to delicious honeycomb there, and apparently a heap of Ranger humor everywhere judging by Omo's snorts and dismissive gestures.
You make good time traveling along the riverbank as the Great River curves to the south. As the afternoon wears on, Omo starts stopping more frequently, holding up a hand for silence. Eventually, he calls for a halt altogether, and leads you to a secluded little clump of shrubs. You are more than happy for the rest break, for while you are no stranger to long walks you normally recover from your exertions in your comfy bed, not the cold bumpy ground. As you lean against a tree and dig into your provisions, Omo informs you that he's going scouting and slips away through the trees.
You finish your meal, and stretch, waiting for Omo to return. The minutes seem to drag by, alone in the woods- it feels like hours, but by the sun it is only about 30 minutes later that Omo comes back, a grim look on his face.
We've got a problem Nym. There's a lot of Rangers here, and I'm not sure we can slip past them.
What? How many is a lot?
Enough to repulse an attack from the river, and more than enough to catch us if we aren't careful. It looks like this is a local staging point for the Rangers, protecting the ferry at Larathor.
The ferry?
Yeah- it's how the Caravan crossed, and how I was planning to get to Thrimesdur. From what I can tell, there's a picket watching the ferry at all times, and lots of Rangers in the treeline up and down the Great River.
You saw all that? Are you sure you weren't spotted?
I'm sure- they were too busy looking out to keep more than a cursory eye on the Walled Jungle behind them. The real question is, what do we do now.
What are our options?
Well, we could try to make it to the ferry. We'd almost certainly be spotted, but if we can get across the guiderope before the sentries catch up we should be alright. We could try it under the cover of darkness, which would be much more dangerous but might let us make it unseen.
Alright, so when you say "get across the guiderope"...
I mean that there's a rope that runs from one bank of the river to the other. The ferry almost certainly won't be on our side of the river, and we can't wait for it to come to us, so we'll have to do it the old fashioned way. Hand over hand.
Yeah, I'm not feeling that plan. What else you got?
My only other idea would be to go around- we could go north and try to find a spot we can swim across or ford, or we could go south and try to wave down a boat- if we go south far enough we'll hit another town sooner or later. Either option would take us days out of our way, and we'd still have to worry about Ranger patrols while we're traveling.
Yeah, I'm not crazy about that option either.
I say we just make a run for it. You got a better idea?
It's a tough situation- Omo seems confident in his ability to outrun the Rangers, but you are somewhat less sure. What should you do?
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
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Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
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Post by: GlyphGryph on March 13, 2012, 12:25:04 am
I think running through is our best bet - they won't be expecting it, and most of all they won't know what to DO about. They'll have no orders for such an event, I'm sure, and I doubt they're going to risk hurting us or sending us into the river. And if they do, yell at them that they're going to get us killed. That should slow them down.
They're used to combating threats, I'm sure, not preventing escapees.
Post by: fergus on March 13, 2012, 12:41:02 am
I think running through is our best bet - they won't be expecting it, and most of all they won't know what to DO about. They'll have no orders for such an event, I'm sure, and I doubt they're going to risk hurting us or sending us into the river. And if they do, yell at them that they're going to get us killed. That should slow them down.Seconded.
Post by: GlyphGryph on March 13, 2012, 12:56:53 am
If he knows, see if we can recreate a passable fake.
If he doesn't, well then, it shouldn't be too hard to create a passable fake, since he's a ranger too. :P
And if things don't look like they're working out, we might at least have the raft closer or ourselves be closer to the rope. (still going with the hook loop plan for faster crossing).
How wide is the river and how fast is the current, btw?
Post by: Grek on March 13, 2012, 01:06:12 am
Here's my suggestion:
0. This is something that we should do regardless of which plan we choose: Look through Prestidigitation for the Beginning Practitioner for basic waterproofing spells that are safe to apply to the book and to our writing materials. It would seriously suck if we managed to get across the river only to discover that our one and only source of general magical knowledge was ruined by the water.
1. Go find that bear that the trailsign warned about before and use a combination of Calm Animal and knowledge of the location of delicious honeycomb also mention by the trailsign to wheedle the bear into serving as a distraction for us by screwing around in the ranger's tents. Time this so that the bear is at the camp after dark.
2. While the rangers are being distracted by our bearstraction, cross the river under cover of darkness.
3. Run like hell.
Post by: Cellmonk on March 13, 2012, 02:10:24 am
On a serious note, do we know how to swim? couldn't we loosen a log from the shore, and paddle across? we shouldn't be too conspicuous---a log in the current. we can land further down stream.
The log would decrease both our chances of drowning and being spotted.
We could attach our supplies to the underside of the log, using our leather.
Post by: bombzero on March 13, 2012, 02:21:12 am
Are we an elf, or a dwarf? Why don't we just run on TOP of the rope, like a true elf, while doing various acrobatic stunts and rudely gesturing at the salmon. We could fish while we're at it.
On a serious note, do we know how to swim? couldn't we loosen a log from the shore, and paddle across? we shouldn't be too conspicuous---a log in the current. we can land further down stream.
The log would decrease both our chances of drowning and being spotted.
We could attach our supplies to the underside of the log, using our leather.
MEDIEVAL NAVY SEALS FTW!!!
Post by: lockman766 on March 13, 2012, 03:42:27 am
Post by: Descan on March 13, 2012, 04:34:53 am
Post by: RAM on March 13, 2012, 05:49:35 am
Consider the possibilities of animate object. It could look like a general spell and if it could compel a rope to move of its own volition then it may be possible to build a new rope bride at a less patrolled location.
I say ask Omo if they could offer any assistance with crossing, maybe strap you to the rope somehow, as you are not confident in your ability. If it comes down to your ability to cross a rope faster than the rangers, than go north or try to convince them to let you cross. If you can get any advantage, then make a run for it, probably in daylight.
Could you masquerade as diplomats, or advanced scouts for formal diplomats?
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 13, 2012, 06:38:46 am
Or we could just wait for the caravan and get some human clothing to slip through in the crowd with them.
Post by: Angle on March 13, 2012, 07:51:11 am
I'm for bluffing and running, I doubt we'd be able to set up a distraction very well.
Post by: GlyphGryph on March 13, 2012, 08:41:16 am
It's either that or if Omo can find some sort of floaty log we can push into the river a bit up shore, then we can catch the rope on the way down and use it as an impromptu raft.
Actually, for even better cover, Omo could claim he's staying here, and he was just escorting us to the crossing. This will put the focus on us a little bit at least, and then
a) if our bluff falls apart and we need to make a break for it, Omo can claim that he'll "get us back, the lying bastard" and follow, potentially slowing down both attempts to catch us and him, and likely having the raft closer.
b) If the bluff doesn't fail, we can wait until the raft gets here, and as it pulls away with us on it Omo can run and jump aboard, giving us a very very good chance of success.
What's on the other side of the river townwise, by the way? We should claim that as our immediate goal, and then wandering and diplomacy trying to get a feel for the possible resistance, chokepoints, fallback plans. Basically, act like a proper diplomat interacting with a neighboring ally in a war.
But you know - Omo probably knows this potential process better than us. ASK him if this sort of bluff would work - how many elves would come down to check us out, what would be their likely responses, could they be fooled by a fake document, especially to leave the lands, which they've likely never done before, how much force are they likely to use to prevent our crossing. Omos feedback will help us determine if the plan is even viable, and if so, how best to execute it.
Post by: MikaTheCrazy on March 13, 2012, 10:18:06 am
A. sneak across using bearstraction (Grek's idea) B. make a dash with the hook harness idea (Glyphgryph) C. sneak across using a log and waterproofing spells. (Cellmonk)
Trying to bluster our way across is out of the question. We would get caught in seconds. depending on what Omo knows about passes to leave that could also be a possibility.
Post by: GlyphGryph on March 13, 2012, 10:43:48 am
Post by: Felius on March 13, 2012, 12:01:47 pm
If Omo don't agree with this plan, I'd say our best bet is to paddle across. Find a way to keep the stuff dry, either with magic, or by carrying it outside the water (maybe using the log/board we find both as a flotation device and a support for our stuff).
We could try for the makeshift raft as well, but it's a bit risky too, since it's going take a while to make, and be quite a bit bulky.
Post by: Baneling on March 13, 2012, 01:46:15 pm
I all for doing the bavarian fire drill and acting like we should be allowed to cross, but yeah, ask Omo first about the chances for it. We could maybe even bullshit about the council send us two as spies in the human lands, and ask them to keep it quiet, since it's supposed to be mostly secret.
If Omo don't agree with this plan, I'd say our best bet is to paddle across. Find a way to keep the stuff dry, either with magic, or by carrying it outside the water (maybe using the log/board we find both as a flotation device and a support for our stuff).
We could try for the makeshift raft as well, but it's a bit risky too, since it's going take a while to make, and be quite a bit bulky.
Problem with going for a bavarian fire drill is that the amount of time you have for your fire drill is very limited since it won't take too long for everyone to go OH WAIT SHE WAS LYING at which point, oh hey there are a bunch of Rangers around to detain our faces or whatever. Pretending we're spies could backfire quite badly if they go to confirm with the council.
If that plan goes toilet-shaped, paddling across would be a bit of a bad idea because, well, it's a deep river and it could be quite wide. Not to mention we have no knowledge of our swimming skill - we could be a Legendary+5 swimmer. Or Novice. I'd rather not do something potentially lethal if it's a trial by fire of our skills.
Flotation devices tend to be uncommon in forests, unfortunately. That one's not so likely. Also, we don't have time to learn any magic - we have a matter of days before the Vale is locked down and learning a new spell would take maybe a day of that, if I've read correctly so far. For now, too much time to waste when we could be doing something productive.
Building a makeshift raft is Bnot going to happen for the very same reason as the previous one - not enough time to do something like that.
I think the bearstraction is a good idea. Perhaps not even calming it - poking it with a VERY LONG stick then running like hell, going OH GOD THERE IS A BEAR LET US CROSS THE RIVER PLEASE THANK YOU BYE
Post by: racnor on March 13, 2012, 03:46:07 pm
Not exactly ethical.
I'm for crossing the rope at night, though we should send the stronger and sneakier Omo across with most of the supplies.
Post by: Felius on March 13, 2012, 04:04:51 pm
On a side note: How good swimmer are we? We are a fisherman (fisherwoman?), we do have risked falling into ponds, rivers, etc. so we might actually be pretty decent swimmers, but we'd need a confirmation on that. If we are, it counts as a point in favor of crossing to rope at night.
Post by: Grek on March 13, 2012, 04:40:58 pm
The problem with using a bear is that the rangers will either calm the bear and leave us exposed, or fail to calm the bear and have to fight a 300lb wall of teeth and claws with skin and tissue thick enough to endure against musket fire using only wooden weapons and bows.
When the bear gets to the rangers, it will already be calm. It's not going to be enraged by anything, we're just bribing it to go sit on someone's tent or wander through the ranger camp making loud noises. It's not going to hurt anyone, just prank them.
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 13, 2012, 04:43:04 pm
Post by: Felius on March 13, 2012, 04:46:32 pm
Just tell the bear that the rangers have tasty fish and they hid it in one of the tents as a game.I don't think we can actually talk with animals, that's life magic. We might be able to actually hide tasty fish on someone's tent, if they don't have anyone guarding them.
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 13, 2012, 04:57:41 pm
Post by: EveryZig on March 13, 2012, 10:35:44 pm
Going north would give the patrols more time to catch us, but what if we moved back away from the river (where it is less heavily patrolled) and then went north from there?
Post by: GlyphGryph on March 13, 2012, 11:19:14 pm
Quote
Problem with going for a bavarian fire drill is that the amount of time you have for your fire drill is very limited since it won't take too long for everyone to go OH WAIT SHE WAS LYING at which point, oh hey there are a bunch of Rangers around to detain our faces or whatever. Pretending we're spies could backfire quite badly if they go to confirm with the council.How, exactly? We've already talked about messages - it takes time. We need to leave right away. Their job is to keep people OUT, not to keep people IN.
If we can make a decent looking document, we've got even more stuff to back it up. There is absolutely no reason why they should realize we are lying, so long as we play it cool.
Lot better than the bear idea, which is practically guaranteed to get us caught or mauled.
I would totally be up for trying to pull the gambit at night when there are likely less patrols up, though. As long as we can bluff our way past any guards at the actual raft we should be okay.
Post by: Grek on March 13, 2012, 11:27:08 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on March 13, 2012, 11:33:00 pm
Post by: Grek on March 13, 2012, 11:33:54 pm
Post by: monk12 on March 13, 2012, 11:39:16 pm
Second plan - Ask Omo what an official letter to leave looks like.
If he knows, see if we can recreate a passable fake.
If he doesn't, well then, it shouldn't be too hard to create a passable fake, since he's a ranger too. :P
And if things don't look like they're working out, we might at least have the raft closer or ourselves be closer to the rope. (still going with the hook loop plan for faster crossing).
How wide is the river and how fast is the current, btw?
Alright, Omo, I've never seen this river before- exactly how big is it?
What do I look like, a ferryman? Call it 800 feet wide, 15 feet at its deepest- maybe a bit more due to spring flooding. Normally the current isn't too fast, but it's still not easy to swim against if you have to, and it'd suck if you happen to hit a branch on the way across. If we cross here, we shouldn't have to worry about whirlpools or other dangers though.
Hm. Do you know what a letter of permission to leave would look like?
I doubt such a thing would exist- Elves leaving the Vale would be a rare enough occasion to merit a messenger and probably an escort, to boot.
There we go! I've been given permission to leave, and you're my voucher and escort. It's not like they've been told to detain us.
Yeah... uh, remember how I knew how many groups were out here?
Yeah?
Well, that's because I'm pretty sure my old unit is the band stationed here- I recognized the style of more than a few messages. They probably already know I deserted, since I should already be with them, and if we run into any officers they'll probably know I'm not assigned to any other duties. Maybe not, though, or it might not matter if you've got a good bluff lined up!
Eh. If it comes to a fight, will we win?
Probably not, no- there'll be too many trained Rangers to account for. About the only thing in our favor there is that they won't use lethal force, so they're not going to riddle us with arrows mid-river.
Yeah, if we go for the rope crossing, we probably should have Omo carry any supplies that can be damage if it falls into the water.
On a side note: How good swimmer are we? We are a fisherman (fisherwoman?), we do have risked falling into ponds, rivers, etc. so we might actually be pretty decent swimmers, but we'd need a confirmation on that. If we are, it counts as a point in favor of crossing to rope at night.
You are not actually a trained swimmer. Your fishing experience has made you comfortable wading in deep water, and you can doggy paddle well enough, but if something happens in open water you have less-than-good odds of being able to swim your way out of it. Not that you'd expect something terrible to happen, and the Great River is not known for its deadly schools of carp or anything, but it is a risk to be aware of.
What's on the other side of the river townwise, by the way? We should claim that as our immediate goal, and then wandering and diplomacy trying to get a feel for the possible resistance, chokepoints, fallback plans. Basically, act like a proper diplomat interacting with a neighboring ally in a war.
Pevo mentioned a while ago (I'm too lazy to look up the post) that the town on the other side is Larathor- it isn't exactly The Big City, but it's a prosperous trading town on the Caravan Route from west to east, and also handles some trade north to south along the river.
0. This is something that we should do regardless of which plan we choose: Look through Prestidigitation for the Beginning Practitioner for basic waterproofing spells that are safe to apply to the book and to our writing materials. It would seriously suck if we managed to get across the river only to discover that our one and only source of general magical knowledge was ruined by the water.
Flipping through the index, you find a couple promising candidates.
One appears to be a minor water-repelling spell intended for raincloaks; you think you can adapt it for your purposes, though you aren't sure if it is potent enough to stand up to complete submersion. It seems to be fairly easy to learn- a few hours of study, and you should have it figured out no later than noon tomorrow.
The other spell is described as a way to make writing permanent, allowing it to survive any number of indignities. It looks a lot more complicated to learn, however, and the complexity means you can't really assess how versatile or potent it is. It could easily take you a couple of days to get working.
RE: Tiredness- while weary, you are not so tired that it will significantly affect your skill checks should the worst happen.
RE: Bear- the bear was probably a solid hour's hike back up the trail- judicious application of honeycomb and Calm Animal should be enough to lure the bear to the Ranger camp, but you wouldn't get back until after dark, if that affects your plan.
With that information, go ahead and cast your votes, next update will be an update of ACTION!
Post by: bombzero on March 14, 2012, 12:32:10 am
is there any other non-lethal form of distraction we could create? im sure there's a few piles of flammable objects that won't be too missed if they are gone.
on that note a significant distraction IS our best bet, rangers are the elven military after all, gotta be well trained.
Post by: Grek on March 14, 2012, 02:35:34 am
RE: Bear- the bear was probably a solid hour's hike back up the trail- judicious application of honeycomb and Calm Animal should be enough to lure the bear to the Ranger camp, but you wouldn't get back until after dark, if that affects your plan.
That's pretty much perfect conditions for Operation Bearstraction, guys. I'm voting for it.
Post by: Baneling on March 14, 2012, 03:20:16 am
RE: Bear- the bear was probably a solid hour's hike back up the trail- judicious application of honeycomb and Calm Animal should be enough to lure the bear to the Ranger camp, but you wouldn't get back until after dark, if that affects your plan.
That's pretty much perfect conditions for Operation Bearstraction, guys. I'm voting for it.
Beeeeeaaaaars.
I mean...uh...this?
Post by: Ancre on March 14, 2012, 03:28:43 am
I vote for this !
Post by: bombzero on March 14, 2012, 03:37:43 am
Post by: Grek on March 14, 2012, 03:46:46 am
Also, we should use the Easy Waterproofing Spell, as we don't have days to learn the other.
Post by: bombzero on March 14, 2012, 03:48:33 am
im intentionally playing devils advocate to make sure all ideas are properly thought out. ;D
Post by: Grek on March 14, 2012, 04:00:54 am
"Like what, Nym?"
"Well, remember that bear you mentioned a while back? And the honeycomb?"
"Yeah...?"
"Let's bribe the bear with the honeycomb into distracting the rangers for us. Have her eat one of their tents or something."
"Brilliant!"
Post by: RAM on March 14, 2012, 05:33:59 am
Post by: Felius on March 14, 2012, 06:54:07 am
Yeah, considering that our bluff is unlikely to be good. If we were a less nice and egalitarian society we could try say it was all very secret, not even the officers of his own unit were supposed to know, but that's unlikely to work. Let's go with the bribing the bear and crossing the rope.
Post by: GlyphGryph on March 14, 2012, 07:55:04 am
I can see NO way for this plan to go well at all. :/
Running has all the perks, half the drawbacks, and a significantly lower chance of being spotted before we can get to the rope.
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 14, 2012, 08:26:25 am
I agree that the whole bear thing is destined to fail.
Post by: MikaTheCrazy on March 14, 2012, 10:09:36 am
Post by: GlyphGryph on March 14, 2012, 10:17:44 am
Omo thinks we've got a chance to run through - I say he's got his head on right. Lets do it.
But, and I would like to reinforce this, be prepared. Specifically with a harness.
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 14, 2012, 10:46:07 am
I realize we don't have much experience with golems yet. Just an idea.
Maybe an experiment for later. Can a golem rope move?
Post by: GlyphGryph on March 14, 2012, 10:53:24 am
Post by: racnor on March 14, 2012, 05:17:58 pm
EDIT- but waterproof the spellbook first, we should do that anyway
Post by: MikaTheCrazy on March 15, 2012, 10:09:45 am
Post by: Descan on March 15, 2012, 01:17:57 pm
But then, skeletons are possible, so who knows.
Post by: Felius on March 15, 2012, 03:55:31 pm
I'd think a golem would need bone structure AND a muscle analog. Like rope and rock, in some fashion as it can pull on the joints.
But then, skeletons are possible, so who knows.
Experiment for the future: Use raise undead on a rope made of organic material, ideally one as close as possible to the natural fiber state, or maybe a vine. It might be able to make an animated rope this way.
Again, it's for the future though, once we are out and tell Omo about our condition. :P
As a side note: When we go for a justification of why it'd be okayish to use raise the dead, we should go for that nature does in fact use the dead as a source, that we should not let anything go to waste if we can avoid, etc.
Post by: Ehndras on March 15, 2012, 06:33:05 pm
Post by: Angle on March 15, 2012, 10:51:49 pm
Post by: monk12 on March 15, 2012, 11:40:19 pm
Bear- Grek, lockman766, MikatheCrazy, Baneling, bombzero, Ancre, Felius, Ehndras- 8
Bluff- RAM, forsaken1111, Angle- 3
Run like hell- fergus, Cellmonk, racnor, GlyphGryph- 4
So yeah, Bearstraction it is then.
Go now (night crossing)- RAM
Learn Waterproof first (day crossing)- Grek, Felius, racnor
Much less decisive, so we'll see where that's at when I actually have a couple hours to rub together for an update.
Post by: lockman766 on March 16, 2012, 02:13:28 am
Post by: Xantalos on March 16, 2012, 04:49:44 am
Post by: MikaTheCrazy on March 16, 2012, 07:53:42 am
Post by: Baneling on March 16, 2012, 08:44:12 am
Post by: Lord Allagon on March 16, 2012, 09:17:44 am
Post by: GlyphGryph on March 16, 2012, 10:53:33 am
Post by: bombzero on March 16, 2012, 11:58:26 am
also, the log plan has potential, who would think anything of a bump on a log at midnight? but well have to make camp somewhere on the other side to dry our clothes and gear before it molds and gets ruined.
Post by: GlyphGryph on March 16, 2012, 12:13:09 pm
I doubt we could get the log across the river but we might not need to.
Post by: MikaTheCrazy on March 16, 2012, 12:51:43 pm
Post by: The Alchemist on March 16, 2012, 12:59:14 pm
I think for now we should look for a log or learn the easier waterproofing spell.Agreed
Post by: GlyphGryph on March 16, 2012, 01:06:02 pm
Post by: Cellmonk on March 16, 2012, 05:59:07 pm
Post by: ibot66 on March 16, 2012, 07:14:02 pm
Post by: Angle on March 17, 2012, 11:07:38 am
edit - Although learning that spell will force us to cross during day or delay us a time.
Post by: MikaTheCrazy on March 17, 2012, 01:27:27 pm
Post by: RAM on March 17, 2012, 07:54:35 pm
Post by: Cellmonk on March 17, 2012, 08:02:08 pm
also, I think we should cross at night if it is at all possible. We would be quite visible, bobbing allongside our log.
If we tie two logs together for the crossing, it will remain upright. then we can wrap the book in leather (our sleeping bag?) along with other items we might not want waterlogged (such as our clothes) and place them above the two logs, kinda in the nook between them and push of the raft. Omo can grab onto the bow, and us the stern. from there we can paddle the makeshift raft across, while trying to stay low in the water. I assume they lack searchlights.
Post by: Phantom of The Library on March 17, 2012, 08:35:18 pm
The straw idea has definite merits if we can avoid being spotted before getting and out.
Also, vote against bearstraction.
Post by: Deep Waters on March 17, 2012, 08:44:31 pm
Two: Do we actually know if Rangers can use magic, at least well enough to communicate with animals? If I remember correctly, Elana didn't know the spell herself, and she's a dedicated Life Mage. (Assuming that it's a spell. Elana said that "it isn't hard to communicate with [animals] using Life Magic, after a fashion." Whatever "after a fashion" means, it doesn't sound like she's talking about a spell, exactly. Perhaps it's more like our Necromantic Sight, except more verbally-oriented?) Admittedly, there's probably a big difference between a fully-realized Ranger and and a Mage just out of her novitiate, but there's nothing in Omo's profile that suggests he knows any magic at all, either, and he's a (former) member of one of the Ranger bands that are being a problem to us right now. He also can't create mana potions, which appears to be a common, if not ubiquitous ability amongst mages. I don't recall any explicit mention of Rangers knowing magic, at least beyond the general spells that probably every elf knows being the fluffy magical sparkle creatures of rainbows and unicorns they are. (Actually, unicorns were pretty beast. Vicious, feral creatures with three foot long horns that are apparently so strong that, according to one "account", unicorns leap off cliffs in order to escape pursuers, then take the entire shock of the fall on their horns. But I digress.) Monk's comments lead me to suspect that Rangers do have magic, but he hasn't exactly confirmed it for sure.
On my third and related point. If Rangers can't use magic well enough to communicate with animals, then we have no way of communicating with the animal ourselves. Even if we assume that communication with animals is a universal spell and not a Life Magic spell or ability (and therefore out of our purview as a Necromancer), we obviously don't know it, and I doubt a book on the basics of magic would teach us how to cast such a spell, since, as I mentioned before, Elana is already beyond the basics and still doesn't know the spell. Even if Rangers can use magic, that's not a guarantee that Omo himself can.
Assuming that Rangers can communicate with animals, communication with animals doesn't mean command of animals, as Elana herself mentioned. We could just tell the bear to wander through their area, digging through the supplies and nosing through the encampments and generally making a nuisance of itself without attacking or hurting anyone. The Rangers won't attack it since the bear isn't really doing anything harmful, just destructive, but they can't simply ignore it, and if we bribe it well enough it'd be difficult for the Rangers to deter it by simply talking to it. At worst, they'd let lose a few arrows at it in an attempt to scare it off and accidentally hit it. Our best bet would be to send the bear out to catch the Rangers in the morning, when they're just waking up. (While we're at it, ask Omos what the Ranger's schedule is- when they go to sleep, when they wake up, when the most amount of Rangers are likely to be away from the encampment, etc.) At night, the Rangers might get paranoid and mistake the bear's rustling about as a zombie army and attack it without realizing what's actually going on, in the middle of the day the Rangers would be prepared enough that they'd probably scare the bear away as soon as it started looking like it was heading in their direction and render the distraction obsolete, but in the morning it's simultaneously harder to see us than in the daytime, they're less likely to immediately think "OMFGZOMBEEATAKS", and are less likely to be prepared, buying us a few more minutes at the very least.
This isn't related to the whole Ranger thing at all, just a bit of thinking on my part. The actual discussion was a little while ago, but I notice that many people assume that corpses animated by necromancy still end up decaying. Did I miss a post by Monk somewhere that stated that explicitly? Because if I haven't, that means we're assuming that based on our prior knowledge of the undead. Seeing as Necromancy appears consist of infusing things with Mana in such a way as it becomes Vitality and also manipulating Vitality itself, I don't see why that should be. In fact, I'm not entirely certain what the difference is between Necromancy and Life Magic, when put in those terms, but that's not my point. My point is: why should something that has been forcibly infused with Vitality, which apparently is the force that keeps us all alive in this universe, continue to decay? If it does, that means that everything made using necromancy as we know it will eventually become useless. Bones decay too, you know. So does wood and other plant fibers. Clay dries up and crumbles. Iron and steel rust. Even silver and copper tarnishes. The only thing that doesn't eventually decay is stone (if we disregard erosion) and gold. Gold is useless as a building block for golems, as it's too soft to serve as bones and too rare and expensive to serve as muscles. That means that while the undead would decay faster, golems would still require maintenance in order to remain useful, and in some cases will still be rendered useless eventually regardless of how well we take care of them. Admittedly this is an extremely long view of things, but it's something to think about, especially in regards to that skeletal monstrosity Pevo was talking about. Speaking of which: who says it was made of bones? Pevo doesn't seem to know anything about Necromancers making golems. Maybe the skeleton was merely a golem made in the shape of a skeleton, or perhaps the decayed framework of a neglected golem, depending on the specifics of how to make a moving golem.
Hm. That gives me an idea: we should try to experiment on making golems made of different substances and/or elements other than earth, as mentioned before, but on a different level. Animated water. Animated fire. Hell, try animated air- that would probably be the most deadly of them all, if the most anticlimactic. We could command animated air to simply leave the lungs of every creature within radius. Insta-Corpse. It's probably not feasible, though. How would the spell know where to end? Gasp! We could end up attempting to animate the entire atmosphere! D8 We could trying animating a small vial of air, though, which could be just as deadly. If we can make golems out of elements other than earth, we should see what happens when we melt/freeze/boil the golem. Do you know how useful that could be? Ice golems that can turn into water could go just about anywhere that isn't the desert, and take up far less space than ice does. Rock golems that can become magma would be even better, if less subtle. (And possibly self-harming. <<; ) Or, if it's impossible to cause a golem to change states without destroying it, maybe, if we can make golems out of different substances (I don't see why not, honestly- living beings (or formerly living beings, if we're being accurate) are made of hundreds, if not thousands of different kinds of substances, and we can animate them just fine), we should create a rock golem with an internal reservoir of animated fire that allows the golem to "eat" rock and spew it out as magma. If that doesn't make our elf the spiritual successor of Cacame in the eyes of the dwarves I don't know what will. :P
I second/third/whatever the suggestion regarding the reanimation of crayfish shells or whatever equivalent happens to be lying around. Actually, crayfish shells are exoskeletons, so wouldn't that be the same as raising the skeleton of a vertebrate? So, better idea- try to raise different parts of a creature's body separate from a creature (for example, raising the head of that ant we beheaded in the beginning of this whole thing rather than the body), and specifically try to raise the hide of an animal that was recently skinned. If that works and the resulting creature can move to any degree, we should also try to raise a tanned leather hide, just to see how much something organic can be altered before it can no longer be raised as a zombie. (Though I assume you can still animate it like an object.) That would make the creation of a cyborg-zombie-golem much easier.
Also, four things that have little to no bearing on the plot, but that I was curious about/wanted to comment on/thought was funny:
What did Gorgothans look like?
Quote
What! What could possibly be possessing you to hare off into a warzone!?!
Quote
...oh, be careful, you stubborn fool. Just be careful.
Quote
[*snip*]impulsively give Elana a big bear hug. She stiffens in surprise for a moment before hugging you back fiercely. After a long moment, you separate, and exit the apartment.
Hm. Elana's showing an inordinate amount of concern for someone I have a feeling we haven't seen in a long time (how long does it take for an elf to finish their novitiate? It was about that long, right? For that matter, how old are we, exactly? I don't recall any mention of our age), even if we recently got back in touch. She may be a friend and former lover, but it seemed as if the break-up was... not pleasant. Especially if it precipitated such a long period of no-contact. In other words, Elana may still have feelings for our lovely necro-elf, which makes the romantic in me swoon with delight. :3 If so, it's unlikely that anything will come of it for various reasons, though I hope we'll at least see her again someday. I doubt romance of any kind, at any time, and with Elana or anyone else will enter this thread, but more exploration into our past, no matter how boring compared to our probable future, would be interesting, I think.
Quote
Dwarves of the Earth Kingdom were solid allies of the Golgothans prior to the war, as well as the Fire Nation.
I didn't realize this was an Avatar: The Last Airbender AU. ;D
Quote
Thanks for the compliment, although I suspect you overestimate my abilities. I really like writing settings and systems, but its only in the last year or so I've been able to write things that I didn't hate after a few months worth of objectivity set in, and I'm still not terribly satisfied with my characterization abilities. One of the reasons I'm running this game is to practice my writing skills, and I'm quite pleased that it is going so well. Hopefully it will remain interesting/believable as the plot progresses.
While your writing skills aren't polished, I'd rate them at an overall of Adept. (I'd give you a categorical assessment, but this is running on way, way too long and you probably don't want my criticism anyway. :P) My complaints number only two. One: the dialogue seems a bit awkward. It's like watching a movie that has an extremely original and wonderfully engaging plot, but has characters that are being played by inexperienced (not bad, merely inexperienced) actors. Nothing that significantly detracts from the story, so to speak, but it's noticeable. That kind of thing only comes with practice, though, which is what this is all about, right? ;) In any case, the plot twists that come along as a result of your unique take on Necromancy, as well as the setting development in general, more than makes up for it. I especially like the way the exposition is more or less coming out naturally- even our necro-elf's whole lack of prior knowledge about everything we're being told can easily be attributed not only to a general cultural/racial insularity but also our character's own insularity, and what she does know is explained quickly, in a cut and dry style that, while not my usual fare, is rather refreshing, and fitting for something like this. My other complaint is more personal in nature: I simply can't seem to get a handle on Nym's personality. Seeing as her thoughts and decisions are pretty much based on the ruminations of an entire community, it's not surprising that she doesn't have a very clear or established personality, but it just bothers me. I'll have to see if I can at least drudge up a basic profile, if only to satisfy myself. (Based on the DF personality traits, of course. :P)
Post by: monk12 on March 17, 2012, 10:05:09 pm
One: Too little, too late for this idea, but I'm wondering why no one thought to buy a sling instead of a bow and arrows. It's very cheap, very light (it's pretty much just a leather thong, and that's if I'm being generous), has a long range (compared to the shortbow, at least), and uses things you can just pick up off the ground as ammunition (saving on arrows). The only drawback is whether our elf, or indeed elves in general, know how to use slings- I can't imagine slings being very easy to learn. Oh, sure, it can't be hard to fling a rock out of a pouch or whatever that thing is called, but can you aim it? But alas. The point is moot.
You're about as proficient with the sling as you are with a bow- the principle differences between the two are that bow/arrows are more expensive, but deal more damage, while the sling is basically free, but deals less damage. Pretty much any clothier/leatherworker can make a sling out of the scraps they have lying around, and it's a popular weapon across the world. Elves don't use them much, mostly because Elven children don't spend their time running around fields whipping stones at rabbits and birds.
Two: Do we actually know if Rangers can use magic, at least well enough to communicate with animals? If I remember correctly, Elana didn't know the spell herself, and she's a dedicated Life Mage. (Assuming that it's a spell. Elana said that "it isn't hard to communicate with [animals] using Life Magic, after a fashion." Whatever "after a fashion" means, it doesn't sound like she's talking about a spell, exactly. Perhaps it's more like our Necromantic Sight, except more verbally-oriented?) Admittedly, there's probably a big difference between a fully-realized Ranger and and a Mage just out of her novitiate, but there's nothing in Omo's profile that suggests he knows any magic at all, either, and he's a (former) member of one of the Ranger bands that are being a problem to us right now. He also can't create mana potions, which appears to be a common, if not ubiquitous ability amongst mages. I don't recall any explicit mention of Rangers knowing magic, at least beyond the general spells that probably every elf knows being the fluffy magical sparkle creatures of rainbows and unicorns they are. (Actually, unicorns were pretty beast. Vicious, feral creatures with three foot long horns that are apparently so strong that, according to one "account", unicorns leap off cliffs in order to escape pursuers, then take the entire shock of the fall on their horns. But I digress.) Monk's comments lead me to suspect that Rangers do have magic, but he hasn't exactly confirmed it for sure.
Much like Humans, Elves tend to do things they are interested, and not do things they aren't. Elves with high magical potential and interest in the Arcane Arts tend to become Mages, Elves with good physical abilities and interest in Nature and defending the homeland become Rangers, so on and so forth. There isn't a specific set of Ranger Spells, but there's nothing preventing a Ranger who had the capacity for Life Magic but not the interest from picking up a spell or two related to his chosen field of work. Old Elves especially tend to be multidisciplinary, since they have technically forever to learn any skill or ability they want to.
That said, most Non-Mages don't learn much beyond the few General Magic spells it takes for them to decide whether or not they like learning magic. Omo does know a couple spells, but you haven't asked him and he hasn't volunteered. You do know from long association that his Mana pool is rather small and underdeveloped, and it's rather unlikely he knows more than the couple spells you knew yourself way back in Turn One. Elana specifying that animal communication was a Life Magic spell makes it much less likely that any given Ranger knows it, since they'd need the capacity for Life Magic. Calm Animal is a general spell.
This isn't related to the whole Ranger thing at all, just a bit of thinking on my part. The actual discussion was a little while ago, but I notice that many people assume that corpses animated by necromancy still end up decaying. Did I miss a post by Monk somewhere that stated that explicitly? Because if I haven't, that means we're assuming that based on our prior knowledge of the undead. Seeing as Necromancy appears consist of infusing things with Mana in such a way as it becomes Vitality and also manipulating Vitality itself, I don't see why that should be. In fact, I'm not entirely certain what the difference is between Necromancy and Life Magic, when put in those terms, but that's not my point. My point is: why should something that has been forcibly infused with Vitality, which apparently is the force that keeps us all alive in this universe, continue to decay? ...
At this point, you lack first-hand information that says reanimated things decay. Pevo mentioned at one point that (paraphrase) "the skeletal monstrosity can't date to the Golgothan War because no Necromancer can make something last that long." The things you've raised yourself have been destroyed before you could see how/if they decay, how rapidly, if that affects their Vitality, so on and so forth.
The distinction between Life Magic and Necromancy isn't very well explored at this point- it's been mentioned in passing a couple times I think, but the most straightforward was Pevo's intro to the World Map in Update 3.
Quote from: Pevo
Yes, the Golgothans were worshipers of Death- whereas the Mages of Life have the power to enhance the Vitality, the Life-Force of living things, the Necromancers had the power to take that Vitality and give it to the Dead.
What did Gorgothans look like?
Why what a strange thing, that I've mentioned more about the extinct Fire Giants and Air Elves than I have about the Golgothans. Surely this is just a very non-suspicious coincidence :D
QuoteDwarves of the Earth Kingdom were solid allies of the Golgothans prior to the war, as well as the Fire Nation.
I didn't realize this was an Avatar: The Last Airbender AU. ;D
Now I kinda wish Omo was proficient with the Boomerang. Although Avatar with more than 4 Elements would be an interesting setting... NO! Bad Monk, stay focused!
QuoteThanks for the compliment, although I suspect you overestimate my abilities. I really like writing settings and systems, but its only in the last year or so I've been able to write things that I didn't hate after a few months worth of objectivity set in, and I'm still not terribly satisfied with my characterization abilities. One of the reasons I'm running this game is to practice my writing skills, and I'm quite pleased that it is going so well. Hopefully it will remain interesting/believable as the plot progresses.
While your writing skills aren't polished, I'd rate them at an overall of Adept. (I'd give you a categorical assessment, but this is running on way, way too long and you probably don't want my criticism anyway. :P) My complaints number only two. One: the dialogue seems a bit awkward. It's like watching a movie that has an extremely original and wonderfully engaging plot, but has characters that are being played by inexperienced (not bad, merely inexperienced) actors. Nothing that significantly detracts from the story, so to speak, but it's noticeable. That kind of thing only comes with practice, though, which is what this is all about, right? ;) In any case, the plot twists that come along as a result of your unique take on Necromancy, as well as the setting development in general, more than makes up for it. I especially like the way the exposition is more or less coming out naturally- even our necro-elf's whole lack of prior knowledge about everything we're being told can easily be attributed not only to a general cultural/racial insularity but also our character's own insularity, and what she does know is explained quickly, in a cut and dry style that, while not my usual fare, is rather refreshing, and fitting for something like this. My other complaint is more personal in nature: I simply can't seem to get a handle on Nym's personality. Seeing as her thoughts and decisions are pretty much based on the ruminations of an entire community, it's not surprising that she doesn't have a very clear or established personality, but it just bothers me. I'll have to see if I can at least drudge up a basic profile, if only to satisfy myself. (Based on the DF personality traits, of course. :P)
Please, everyone feel free to comment on things you like/don't like/observe about my writing style. Like I said, I'm partly doing this to practice those skills, but it doesn't work if I'm practicing the wrong things!
Yeah, dialogue is easily my worst suit, I think. I had initially classified that as a subset of characterization, but that's probably a bad way to go about thinking of it. Hopefully it'll get better, and if not hopefully you won't feel inclined to have Nym cut out her own tongue to cut down on it :P I knew I didn't want to infodump with the setting info, because that's not terribly fun to read, cuts down on the fun of learning new things, and makes it harder to get into things. Making updates information-dense without being ungainly has been a priority of mine. Part of the difference in delivery between new and old information is to help highlight that very difference, since the players wouldn't know otherwise- the idea is that the important new information is important and new, and should be focused on, while the other stuff is just something you haven't had occasion to think about since you first learned it.
As far as Nym having a poorly defined personality, that's largely because she had no personality to start the game. I had no idea whether you were going to immediately flee your home, or reveal yourself, or start murdering people and stealing their corpses, or what, and I wanted to leave that open-ended since at the very beginning I only wanted to explore the Necromancy system I'd worked out. As you mentioned, part of it is also having her actions determined by a hundred different voices in her head- my personal plan is that as You develop a history, you'll also develop a character. Thus far, you've been much more focused on learning about the outside world and your gift rather than yourself, which is perfectly natural and fine. Children ask a lot more questions about the world and people around them than they do about themselves, and you're in that same place for much the same reasons. I could ramble longer about that, but we should be coming up on a Chapter Break soon and I think I'll do a brief retrospective at that point to shed some insight on the meta-game.
Anywho, yes, I know I'm late, I was gunning for this update out like four days ago but the real world is a fickle greedy bitch. Such is life.
Post by: Descan on March 17, 2012, 10:28:20 pm
Post by: racnor on March 17, 2012, 11:39:06 pm
Post by: bombzero on March 17, 2012, 11:56:41 pm
speaking of golems, if dwarves have past experience with necromancy, think they would be privy to the idea of making us a golem? especially if we intend to use it to crush the 'evil' necromancers?
Post by: Deep Waters on March 18, 2012, 12:20:19 am
Golgothans were elves.
Yeah, that was my first thought too, but the more I think about it, the more it doesn't make sense. One, Pevo said that the Dwarves had a strong alliance with the Golgothans, but not Elves. Two, we Elves already have Life, and we once had Air. Wouldn't having control over three different "elements" be a little overpowered? No, I think it'll be something much less predictable.
Which reminds me: there's so little we know about your universe, Monk, even just the Elves. I know that it was said that Elena's strawberry blonde hair was unusual for an elf, but what is the usual, exactly? I assumed brown, maybe black, but then I remembered those violet-haired elves in d20 Modern and decided that was a bad idea. In fact, let's cover all our bases here: hair colors, hair styles, skin color, height, build, clothing styles, housing, cuisine, religious customs, weaponry- everything you've got, now if possible, later if necessary. The physical features I'd like at least- I've decided that I want to do a whole DF profile on Nym, and that's somewhat necessary. :P
I think it'd be nice if you added some little quirks to Nym. Nothing that would impact the plot or prevent us from getting her to do something we want her to do (maybe less likely or more difficult, but not impossible), but something that makes her feel more like a character in her own right rather than just a instrument through which we explore your world. That'll make us less likely to suggest she do something stupid, since we'll get more attached to her. Mention a favorite food, or some not-so-favorite foods. General likes and dislikes are also good. Maybe things that she fears (other than being found out as a Nacromancer and dying, of course), that disgust her or creep her out.
Conversely, make her indifferent to or even fascinated by things others are revolted by. Of course, the whole "Necromancer" thing is a given- corpses aren't exactly pretty, y'know. Ha, imagine a necromancer that throws up or faints at the sight of dead bodies! But Nym is already way beyond that with the whole fishing thing (she did gut one herself, after all) and besides, we already have enough problems without being our own worst enemies here. Nym did recover quickly from finding out that she was a Necromancer, though, and was very quick to start experimentation- while this is obviously the result of the fact that this is essentially a collaborative RP that's focused on experimentation, it could easily be turned into a personality trait, one that others might draw attention to- something like "You've never been easy to rattle" or "You're a curious person, aren't you?"
Have Nym or Omo reminisce about their childhood, something like "You know, this is like that one time when..." or "Hey, remember when..." and so on. These things don't take up much time or space, but they do wonders for immersion. Or, you could go the exact opposite route and incorporate them into the plot. Perhaps have a community suggestion come to Nym in the form of a childhood memory. For example, the bearstraction idea (which looks like it's not going to work, but it's just an example) could come about from a memory of when Omo stole honey from a hive and accidentally caused a bear to chase him across the entire town, destroying everything as they went, until Omo leaped into a river. That could also cause a nickname to come about- another good way to characterize.
I mentioned personality traits earlier, but I've notice that it seems as if Nym has, in fact, changed her usual way of doing things, a fact which I think Pevo and Elana commented on- but not Omo, your best friend? That is very odd. It doesn't sound like we were much of an initiator, or a planner, or really anything but a lazy bum before all of this. (I can relate. ;D) Why hasn't Omo, or our mother for that matter, questioned this, or even said anything all? I can imagine that we've always been inquisitive, if not about the same things we're displaying an interest in now, but these implied changes to our basic nature are a little harder to rationalize. Something as simple as an odd look and a quiet "You've changed" would be enough. All little things really, but they add up, believe me.
EDIT: Goddamn "text correction". Sometimes I hate phones. <<; Also, now that I've slept on it for a night, I've realized that I accidentally shifted into lecture mode when I was initially just offering one suggestion. I really need to stop doing that. --' Also, these suggestions have nothing to do with my desire to create a profile for Nym and the fact that some of them are required to do so. Nope. Nothing at all. ^shifty eyes^
Post by: EveryZig on March 18, 2012, 09:59:55 pm
No, I think it'll be something much less predictable.Obviously Gorgothans are kobolds.
(Though actually goblins/orcs would be more likely.)
Post by: GlyphGryph on March 20, 2012, 10:24:02 am
Post by: Deep Waters on March 20, 2012, 03:32:57 pm
o______o
Er... is that for me? Or the idea that the master necromancer army that nearly conquered the world (at least the part we know about) and still terrifies it today were kobolds?
Post by: GlyphGryph on March 20, 2012, 03:33:49 pm
Post by: Deep Waters on March 20, 2012, 06:28:33 pm
:o Wait. WAIT A MINUTE HERE. I just went back to the first post in order to get to Part 25 and check exactly what's it said, and while the page was loading I started rereading that first post. I can't believe anyone mentioned this, but if they did and I just skipped over it somehow, well, just let me have my moment here- anyways, you remember the character options we had? Where we could be an Elf from of Yicefalo (which we are), a human from Thrimesdur or a human from the Jeweled Coasts? Is this ringing any bells?! GODDAMMIT WE COULD'VE BEEN A PIRATE KING/QUEEN! *RAEGRAEGRAEGRAEGRAAAAAAAAEG*
Okay, okay, calm, I am calm. *deep breaths*
...Anyways. I took another gander at that post (apparently I didn't read it very thoroughly the first time through, since a lot of that information was pretty new to me) and it seems we can either try to sneak past the rangers, go north and swim/ford it, go south and wave down a boat, or go even more south until we hit another town. I'm not sure why we'd even want to hit another town (isn't that something we should avoid, Omo, with the whole you're-deserting-and-I'm-leaving-even-though-I-explicitly-don't-have-the-Council's-permission and mages-can-communicate-with-each-other-across-miles thing? ??? Can you clarify this, Monk?), so that's a bust. Waving down a boat seems to be a bit of a gamble, but more likely than being able to sneak past/trick a bunch of sharp-eared (and possibly trigger-happy) Rangers. Going north and attempting to swim/ford it seems like the best idea. (I'm sure that the width of the Great River in that map is exaggerated. *covers head and waits for irony to happen*) How far north can we go, anyways? Would we still be risking getting caught by the Rangers patrolling Larathor (not just a random Ranger patrol; that's pretty much pure luck anyways, even with Omo there), and if so, how risky is it compared to trying to run it?
As for actual methods, well, I can't think of anything that hasn't been suggested already. Although, depending on the answers to the questions above, we may be able to avoid the more... elaborate ones.
EDIT: Hm. Just reread all the experiments we plan on doing and noticed that one of them is infusing a crystal with vitality. I get the feeling that will just make another golem, but if we put mana in the crystal it'll probably make for some interesting results. Who knows, it may be the key to making golems capable of movement. Or maybe we'll be able to create golems that can cast magic! :P
Post by: Draigh on March 20, 2012, 07:08:28 pm
The most people live to the south, the north seems rather uninhabited. Any army threat, with equal increased patrols would then thus be at the south and at the common routes. Going north is also not expected as a way to leave the elven forests. It would also make sure that You have enough time to flee if a certain Omo decides that he rather not travel with a budding Necromancer and decides to move away and inform some people of the third Necromancer that just happened to pop up.
As such I would suggest ignoring the whole river and it's crossings and move north. Then cross through the lower mountain areas and follow that towards the cursed lands. The big undead army is probably ravaging the southern parth.
And yes, I noticed the similarities between starting choices and current active necromancers. Then again, I read the whole threat this past weekend from start to finish. Another thing that I noticed... They have been necromancing longer than you. So they have a headstart in experience, and clearly made all the wrong choices. Learn from their mistakes and make a true difference in the world, not be just another evil necromancer. ;-)
As for the dead bodies versus golem debate that flares up now and again:
A golem is made from simple matter. If not taking into account the source of activation, that makes it more desirable than dead bodies. For example Elana already called it desecration, while You carefully used the term 'utilize'. Animation of a golem would not be considered a desecration, perhaps still strange and worrysome but less so.
As for the source of activation, has anyone been thinking about perhaps using a bit of your own vitality to activate the golem? You can heal yourself over time and it would prove that you do not drain the soul of something when you drain their vitality. It would also be more accepted if you can prove that you do not drain others, but make it from your own sacrifice.
And hey.. if you get the hang of it, you might offer Omo to make him a golem companion for the hunt and bind it to his blood (and try to make it listen to him while you are at it). After all, nothing immoral about an animation made from a free offer of vitality and some local clay, wood and/or stone.
As for the animation part and making it useful: I think the trick is simply 'wanting' it to work like that.
If you make a rope doll and WANT it to be able to see it's surroundings, it gets energy eyes.
If you WANT the rope doll to be able to walk around, it will get energy-enabled walking legs.
If you WANT it to be semi-sentient, you'll probably get chucky. Just be careful what you wish for. I would insert a clause of "protect and obey Nym and Omo, in that order."
Post by: Deep Waters on March 20, 2012, 09:43:39 pm
I'd personally vote for going south- I think that we'd be much better equipped for escaping a panicked mob than a necromancer that's many orders above us in skill, and even if we weren't, the possibility of being able to learn more about necromancy is worth chancing it. (However, and I don't know Monk well enough to say this, but if I know the DM mindset, and believe me I do, the moment we enter such a city one of the residents will run by screaming "BY THE FAITHS THEY'VE SET THE GREAT LIBRARY ON FIRE!" ...I'd certainly do it. Your reactions would be too interesting and potentially amusing to resist. ;D) Of course, any cities that may be in the north do have two advantages: one, they're closer to the Elven homeland (though I think we should learn a lot more before we even think about heading over there- what level are we? Two? Three? Surely not enough to tackle the creatures that practically destroyed Elf civilization as was known at the time!) and they are in closer proximity to where the Golgothans once lived (I think that they lived in the north?), so it's very likely that there are texts related to them and their necromantic feats in the libraries there. Second-hand accounts are better than nothing, I suppose.
However, even if we ignore our need for more knowledge and avoid settlements entirely, trusting our Elf-y senses to warn us of the approach of a shambling horde of the undead, we still have one problem: Omo may be a Ranger, but he's used to the forests of Yicelafo, which have abundant edible plants and animals. I don't think he's ever been outside of Yicelafo, and he may not be familiar with the edibles of the mountains or Thrimesdur in general, or even how to survive in the cold- and I wouldn't count on him having thought that far ahead, either.
No matter our choice, however, we have to keep in mind that we can't be totally sure of the accuracy of that map. Even if we don't metagame and ignore the fact that Monk himself said that it was a rough estimate, most maps before the age of satellites, and especially maps made in the technological age equivalent to the one this world is in, were appallingly inaccurate. Just google ancient maps of the new world. Pretty, and they get the basic shapes (most of the time), but they can be miles and miles off. In other words- we probably shouldn't take the map as gospel. :P
As for the whole undead vs. golem thing, draining your own vitality would indeed eliminate the moral question, but it would also handicap us tremendously, perhaps fatally so- and I don't mean accidentally overdrawing ourselves. Quality is well and good, but even ten top-trained commandos in powered combat armor equipped with nuclear hand grenades would eventually fall to a million mooks in bubble wrap equipped with inflatable hammers. I suppose it depends on how far we're willing to go for our principles.
Post by: racnor on March 20, 2012, 10:47:19 pm
Post by: Ehndras on March 20, 2012, 10:54:04 pm
Post by: Deep Waters on March 20, 2012, 11:59:19 pm
I think the order wizards will be able to keep the people in check, especially if they feel that their precious libraries are in danger. Selling mana to the wizards would thus provide us with money(so no food problems), library access and suggestions for good reading material, and safety from the angry mobs.
Hmm... you have a point there; I hadn't thought of the Order wizards. They would look down on that sort of thing, wouldn't they? And it is entirely possible our mother was exaggerating, whether knowingly or unknowingly- rumors do have a way of getting out of hand, but our mother also had a vested interest in discouraging us in this endeavor. I think it could go either way, really.
I think someone came up with the idea of selling the wizards potions before, but asking them for reading suggestions is one I haven't heard, and a very good idea besides. Of course, we have to get to a city first. :P
Post by: Draigh on March 21, 2012, 12:46:06 am
As for the whole undead vs. golem thing, draining your own vitality would indeed eliminate the moral question, but it would also handicap us tremendously, perhaps fatally so- and I don't mean accidentally overdrawing ourselves. Quality is well and good, but even ten top-trained commandos in powered combat armor equipped with nuclear hand grenades would eventually fall to a million mooks in bubble wrap equipped with inflatable hammers. I suppose it depends on how far we're willing to go for our principles.
Knowing how to create a golem from your own vitality and being able to demonstrate thus to questioning minds like Omo or Order Wizards... is something different then exclusively making golems that way. ;-)
You want them to believe that you are doing it all from your own vitality. That you borrow a bit extra now and then... is something they don't need to know.
And as for the route... closer to the mountains the river will be easier to cross as it has not had time to grow. We can go back south after the river crossing, elven patrols and informing Omo.
Post by: Ancre on March 21, 2012, 01:02:50 am
Knowing how to create a golem from your own vitality and being able to demonstrate thus to questioning minds like Omo or Order Wizards... is something different then exclusively making golems that way. ;-)
You want them to believe that you are doing it all from your own vitality. That you borrow a bit extra now and then... is something they don't need to know.
Yes, but that's lying. We want others to think we're nice and trustworthy ; deceiving them will only hurt us in the long run, since necromancy isn't highly regarded anyways. A "lite" version of necromancy will not convince people on its own, so we have to remain honest and morally good. In fact, I'd even say we have to be extra-good, heroically good, rather than just normal good, since necromancy is such a huge social handicap to begin with.
Post by: Draigh on March 21, 2012, 01:14:08 am
But that is a choice for a later time.
And I rather give a little lie about only using my own vitality to animate a golem, than not lie and raise someone's grandma or grandpa instead. The latter is certainly not forgiven, while the former might, if you act cautiously with where you get your vitality from (like trees and animals).
And if you want to be heroicly good, then using your own lifeforce alone would be the way to go anyway. Thus then it won't be lying anymore.
At the least it would be interesting information about the amount of vitality you can channel into a golem, and how effective it would be. My guess is that the transferrate would be a lot more beneficial than the current 3 to 1 rate.
Post by: GlyphGryph on March 21, 2012, 01:25:31 am
Post by: Ehndras on March 21, 2012, 01:30:17 am
Rather, Hunter/Butcher. I think proper hunting training would be quite goo....
I wonder... Could one infuse arrows with magic, creating more destructive weapons?
Of course, this would come much later, but the idea that you could infuse your arrows or bow with magic is quite interesting.
"The flaming Bow of Justice pierces the undead monstrocity's putrid flesh before exploding in a shower of gore!
Post by: GlyphGryph on March 21, 2012, 09:56:39 am
Post by: Deep Waters on March 21, 2012, 02:46:43 pm
Get a double job as a slaughterhouse/Butcher - quick, efficient way to get vitality, work for free.
Hmmm... I don't know. Why become a butcher when we're already a perfectly good fisher(wo)man? There's no reason for us to learn how to become butchers or hunters as far as I can see. Well, unless Omo leaves, but I think we'd have bigger problems then. Besides, assuming you want us to drain the vitality from the soon-to-be slaughtered animals (I can't imagine what else you could mean), while we know that eating things affected by necromancy doesn't appearin to have side effects, it might be different for people who aren't, y'know, elven necromancers. Even if it isn't, there's no telling what kind of long-term effects necromantic magic like that can have. It's probably not going to do anything, but do we want to risk that?
Plus, I don't know about you, but having someone who raises the dead in their spare time handle my food isn't exactly conducive to my appetite. 8S
Post by: GlyphGryph on March 21, 2012, 02:50:04 pm
But a cow probably has a lot more vitality than a fish.
Post by: Deep Waters on March 21, 2012, 03:56:09 pm
Post by: Ehndras on March 21, 2012, 04:02:14 pm
WILDLIFE, ATTAAAAAAAAAAAAACK!
Post by: Grek on March 21, 2012, 04:06:13 pm
Post by: racnor on March 21, 2012, 04:42:41 pm
Post by: Deep Waters on March 21, 2012, 04:43:15 pm
I'm not really sure why people think there's a moral issue inherent to necromancy. Raising zombies requires mana and a dead body. Raising golems requires vitality. As long as we refrain from killing people to get the dead bodies or the vitality, we're in the clear morally speaking. The only people that are going to object to us animating rope golems and undead trees are the same sort of people that would object to any necromancy at all. As long as we can live with ourselves, the rest of the world can stuff it.
I think it has something to do with the desecration of the dead. Which I can understand; seeing the decaying face of someone you know on the head of a mindless shambling undead... creature... isn't exactly a pleasant idea, and at the very least it's easy to apply that image to every corpse. Not to mention the possible religious implications- many cultures teach respect for the dead and by association their bodies as a matter of course; some even associate continued well-being in the afterlife with the condition of a person's former body (which is why the Egyptians, among other cvilizations, practiced mummification). Reanimating someone's body in order to use them as servants and cannon fodder isn't exactly respect, now is it? You might then argue that we can just use animals and maybe plants, but people can get very attached to their pets and their gardens, in some cases as much as or even more than to people.
Also, the "rest of the world" is out to get us right now just for being a necromancer; if we don't show that we're different in some way (and restoring the Elven homeland will help, but won't cut it in the long run; it's easier for people to say we're doing it for a selfish reason than to accept we might be trying to do good), the only thing we'll be able to do without getting ourselves killed is retreat into hermitude, and unless we want to deal with a GAME OVER the only thing we'll be able to do after that is experiment with our powers and someday reemerge at the head of a massive horde of superpowered zombies and golems. While that sounds pretty awesome, I find the idea of being the unlikely anti-hero more interesting than just being a villain like everyone else.
In other words, yeah, sure we can give the world two giant middle fingers and do whatever the hell we want, but that won't make for a very interesting game in the long run.
EDIT: What racnor said. Although, these elves seem to be just as horrified by the idea of "utilizing" dead bodies as humans and dwarves would be (see our discussions with Elana for details) and considering our friendship with the human empire of Thrimesdur, I think we can assume that cannibalistic elves are not part of this setting. Also, mass steal vitality FTW! :P
EDIT2: Hm. Reread the posts and checked the notable figures tab. It appears our mother is a Sage, or at least she was in the beginning. Does that mean she's both a Mage and a Sage? A magesage? Or a sagemage? Monk, if I may: how knowledgeable (as a Sage) and how powerful (as a mage) is she? For the sake of relativity, can you compare her to Pevo and and Ari?
Post by: Grek on March 21, 2012, 05:16:32 pm
As for the whole desecration of corpses thing, the key is that we are not planning to do that. So far, we've only revived A] wild bugs and fish and B] plants. At no point have we revived any person, or anyone's pet, or anything that anyone else owns or even cares about. Just wild animals (which looked perfectly normal!) and trees. An elven necromancer that animates dead trees is basically the least offensive-to-the-sensibilities necromancer there is.
So, that said, let's wait until someone actually accuses us of being evil before trying to justify ourselves.
Post by: bombzero on March 21, 2012, 05:35:15 pm
i once again must stress that dwarfs, while they are probably easy to anger, may be receptive to a necromancer who DOES NOT want to raise corpses, and wants to defeat the other 'evil' necromancers with an army of golems. im betting anything dwarfs know how to make metal golems seeing as how they were allied with necromancers, and if not im sure we can figure it out and tell them how.
morality: set, done, no corpses were raised in the making of this golem, no graves disturbed, no people upset.
payment: if we can 'program' golem to follow someone else (pending experimentation) offer to leave a few golems for the dwarves as guards. they would probably appreciate some large metal statues as guards.
usefullness: excessively high, animated metal machines would be unabashed by a crowd of fleshy zombies wielding weapons, and the terror factor for the other necromancers, (who by reports have not done much with golems) would probably be sufficiently high.
as for current issues, the state of affairs in cities sound risky, but we need more magical knowledge to have any hope of surviving, we lack physical power, we lack weapon training beyond a bow, and were basically broke.
Post by: Deep Waters on March 21, 2012, 05:57:18 pm
Our mum's a Mage, not a Sage. The Sage thing was explained to be a typo several pages back.
As for the whole desecration of corpses thing, the key is that we are not planning to do that. So far, we've only revived A] wild bugs and fish and B] plants. At no point have we revived any person, or anyone's pet, or anything that anyone else owns or even cares about. Just wild animals (which looked perfectly normal!) and trees. An elven necromancer that animates dead trees is basically the least offensive-to-the-sensibilities necromancer there is.
So, that said, let's wait until someone actually accuses us of being evil before trying to justify ourselves.
I know. I was just trying to explain the moral issues associated with necromancy in general, not suggest that we are doing nor plan on doing any of it. Although the "tree" part may be disputable, at least to DF elves. :P As for the sage/mage mother thing, thank you for the explanation. Though I'd still like to know our mother's power levels, mostly for reference. I suppose it'd be useful to know if things go wrong with Omo and he goes back to warn the Council, but I'd rather not think of it in those terms. :-\
While it'd be nice if we could say that, unfortunately, everyone and their mother has already accused us of being evil. I'm a DnD enthusiast. If someone accuses all DnD enthusiasts of being Satan worshipers, they're accusing me of being a Satan worshiper. I'm an Asian-American. If someone accuses all Asian-Americans of being Communist heathens out to take over all of America, they're accusing me of being a Communist heathen out to take over all of America. Just because they haven't said it to my face doesn't mean the accusation isn't directed towards me. And we're not justifying ourselves. We're trying to keep from having to be justified in the first place. After all, no one knows that golems (at least, our golems) are necromantic in nature. No one really needs to know, either, though I agree that we should tell Omo (he deserves that much) and that we should reveal our identity after establishing a reputation for good deeds.
Yes, the issue is not that necromancy itself is inherently evil, its that other necromancers have primarily raised corpses, and burial is sacred in this world by all accounts we have seen.
i once again must stress that dwarfs, while they are probably easy to anger, may be receptive to a necromancer who DOES NOT want to raise corpses, and wants to defeat the other 'evil' necromancers with an army of golems. im betting anything dwarfs know how to make metal golems seeing as how they were allied with necromancers, and if not im sure we can figure it out and tell them how.
morality: set, done, no corpses were raised in the making of this golem, no graves disturbed, no people upset.
payment: if we can 'program' golem to follow someone else (pending experimentation) offer to leave a few golems for the dwarves as guards. they would probably appreciate some large metal statues as guards.
usefullness: excessively high, animated metal machines would be unabashed by a crowd of fleshy zombies wielding weapons, and the terror factor for the other necromancers, (who by reports have not done much with golems) would probably be sufficiently high.
as for current issues, the state of affairs in cities sound risky, but we need more magical knowledge to have any hope of surviving, we lack physical power, we lack weapon training beyond a bow, and were basically broke.
YES! SOMEONE WHO GETS WHAT I MEAN! ^happyface^
I'd have to discount burial, at least in regards to the Elves (who cremate their dead) but that's definitely true of the humans of Thrimesdur. (Which is ironic, since 'Thrimesdur' apparently means "The Cremated Empire". :P) Which probably explains a little of why the humans of the Jeweled Coast are more amenable to alliance with a necromancer than the Elves or the humans of Thrimesdur- they send their dead off into the sea, where it's rather difficult to retrieve them. Plus, whenever I try to imagine a "sea burial", I keep coming up with a Viking funeral. <<;
We won't get to the Dwarves for a long time, and I doubt they'll have the same taboos associated with necromancy as the humans and elves (they were the Golgothan's allies at first, after all, and they didn't have nearly the same amount of devastation wrought upon them as the other races did, especially the Elves and the Fire Giants) but once we do, an alliance with them would be of paramount importance- especially if we plan on utilizing more golems than reanimated corpses in our army, but even if we don't plan on using golems at all I bet there are plenty of things we could learn from them. At the very least we could attempt to negotiate their assistance against the other necromancers.
And yes, metal golems definitely trump any number of zombie hordes. :P The only problem I could foresee is whether a golem needs fuel or something like fuel; we haven't exactly kept our golems for a long period of time. In fact, we know a lot more about undead raising than golems, and that's saying a lot. That whole strange episode after we 'killed' Ropey (that rope doll) is definitely alarming in its possible implications.
Post by: lockman766 on March 21, 2012, 06:11:01 pm
Post by: Cellmonk on March 21, 2012, 06:39:47 pm
we might make a little money on the side....
on a serious note, I'm all for visiting the Dwarves. I love Dwarves. And maybe, just maybe, they will love us!
Post by: RAM on March 22, 2012, 12:39:24 am
Post by: lockman766 on March 22, 2012, 01:34:00 am
I would suggest practising with your own vitality so that you can operate that way. Once you gain a measure of acceptance then you may be able to operate from willing sacrifices...We need more control before we even attempt that. we don't want to accidentally kill which is why I put in the vitality healing experiment out there. The more control we have the things we can do, and healing practice is great for control.
EDIT: Damn spelling errors.
Post by: Deep Waters on March 22, 2012, 02:09:38 am
Quote from: lockman766 link=topic=96692[right
[/right].msg3118003#msg3118003 date=1332398040]I would suggest practising with your own vitality so that you can operate that way. Once you gain a measure of acceptance then you may be able to operate from willing sacrifices...We need more control before we even attempt that. [W]e don't want to accidentally kill [someone,] which is why I putinthe vitality healing experiment out there. The more control we have the [more] things we can do, and healing practice is great for control.
EDIT: Damn spelling [and grammar] errors.
Fixed that for ya. :P
Post by: lockman766 on March 22, 2012, 02:30:15 am
thanks bro.:)Quote from: lockman766 link=topic=96692[right[/right].msg3118003#msg3118003 date=1332398040]I would suggest practising with your own vitality so that you can operate that way. Once you gain a measure of acceptance then you may be able to operate from willing sacrifices...We need more control before we even attempt that. [W]e don't want to accidentally kill [someone,] which is why I putinthe vitality healing experiment out there. The more control we have the [more] things we can do, and healing practice is great for control.
EDIT: Damn spelling [and grammar] errors.
Fixed that for ya. :P
Post by: Baneling on March 23, 2012, 08:08:50 am
Hmm.
Post by: lockman766 on March 23, 2012, 01:38:23 pm
So...are we just discussing stuff while we wait for Monk to update?No we listen, and wait...But I'm not opposed to conversation.
Hmm.
Post by: MikaTheCrazy on March 23, 2012, 02:11:12 pm
Post by: Deep Waters on March 23, 2012, 05:10:29 pm
Speaking of which, do the majority of people still want to cross the river at Larathor? Or has anyone changed their mind/come up with a better idea?
I, personally, still favor going north and trying to find a way to swim/ford the river. That, of course, has the disadvantage of taking longer to go down south into the larger cities, but I don't know if we'd be able to wave down a boat, and hitting another city is probably not a good idea. I've already said my bit on that, though. The only new thing I've thought of regarding that is whether our mother is influential enough to push for our retrieval, and if she's (over)protective enough to try it. (Finding a potentially powerful artifact that could help with the war efforts has to have earned her some brownie points with the Council, even if we were the ones to originally "stumble" across it.) Then again, elves don't seem to have much in the way of organized law enforcement... hm. Something to ponder.
In any case, I'm interested in seeing how the votes going so far, so I'm going to go ahead and tally them up. Feel free to correct me if I miscounted something; I confused myself multiple times here so I probably made several mistakes or misconstrued what you meant. I've also included votes from people who reacted positively to an idea, but didn't actually commit to choosing it over something else, so correct me if I'm wrong to assume on that count. Anyways, here's the votes so far:
Spoiler: Getting into Thrimesdur (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Our Route After Entering Thrimesdur (barring unexpected events) (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Positions on the Undead vs. Golems Issue (click to show/hide)
Forgive me if I'm being presumptuous, Monk, I just really want to know in what direction we're heading right now. ^^;
Post by: Grek on March 23, 2012, 05:31:47 pm
Post by: Deep Waters on March 23, 2012, 05:38:36 pm
Post by: Draigh on March 23, 2012, 06:00:32 pm
And I remain of the opinion that crossing at the heaviest guarded spot is the wrong place to do so. But as you counted, that seems to be the major opinion (even though HOW is still up for debate).
I do agree with the whole waterproofing the stuff, but that is regardless of which route we'll take. We'll probably get wet, no matter if we go north, south or straight on.
Post by: Deep Waters on March 23, 2012, 06:04:05 pm
Considering that crossing the river and entering Thrimesdur is already a challenge, I have yet to think ahead of what we should really do afterwards. Mostly because I think that getting there will give fresh information and new options anyway. So I just focus on the main priority, which is getting there alive.
And I remain of the opinion that crossing at the heaviest guarded spot is the wrong place to do so. But as you counted, that seems to be the major opinion (even though HOW is still up for debate).
I do agree with the whole waterproofing the stuff, but that is regardless of which route we'll take. We'll probably get wet, no matter if we go north, south or straight on.
In that case, would you like me to change/remove your vote?
I very much agree with everything you just said. However, in games like this, it appears that majority rules, so I suppose we'll just have to deal with it if it turns out that way. :P
Post by: Draigh on March 23, 2012, 06:13:05 pm
But let it stand there for now, might give someone else an idea to think outside of the box. ;)
Besides.. majority rules does not mean that the minority should just shut up. Just pointing out the risk and maybe play a bit of devil's advocate if needed.
In the meantime I'll watch the FUN that is about to ensue while they are going to be chased by a bear and elven rangers, crossing a rope across a big river while they cannot swim and don't want their only source of magical knowledge get wet.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lord Allagon on March 23, 2012, 06:14:53 pm
EDIT: By change I mean remove from Bearstraction and put me for paddle accross.
Post by: Cellmonk on March 23, 2012, 06:28:33 pm
The bear thing seems somewhat irrational to me. I mean, these are elves that are probably far smarter than us, and likely have better detection skills than Omo.
The further north we get, the less patrols we will encounter, methinks. We shouldn't follow too close to river, though, for it could hem us in if this turns into a chase.
I hereby change my vote (if I ever voted)
Post by: Deep Waters on March 23, 2012, 06:32:29 pm
Considering that majority wins and I am the only one who even suggested it, it does not really matter right?
But let it stand there for now, might give someone else an idea to think outside of the box. ;)
Besides.. majority rules does not mean that the minority should just shut up. Just pointing out the risk and maybe play a bit of devil's advocate if needed.
In the meantime I'll watch the FUN that is about to ensue while they are going to be chased by a bear and elven rangers, crossing a rope across a big river while they cannot swim and don't want their only source of magical knowledge get wet.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It always matters, if only because I'm a stickler for accuracy. :P
I understand and agree with both of your latter points. I actually enjoy playing the devil's advocate, if necessary; it merely appeared to me as if you were changing your opinion, so I wanted to clarify. As for crossing the river... I'll more likely be cringing behind a shield of fingers. ^dread^
Hmm. I change my vote for paddle across, and I think we should head south to the big cities, selling mana potions to the wizards.
I think we should go north. Considering how hard it is to keep that book dry (my solution is merely a last ditch one)...
The bear thing seems somewhat irrational to me. I mean, these are elves that are probably far smarter than us, and likely have better detection skills than Omo.
The further north we get, the less patrols we will encounter, methinks. We shouldn't follow too close to river, though, for it could hem us in if this turns into a chase.
I hereby change my vote (if I ever voted)
Done and done.
Lord Allagon- I assume by 'changing' you meant for me to remove you from the Bearstraction list? (Please just modify your existing post; our number of posts seem to be getting a bit long, and I don't want to force Monk to wade through the lot of them <<; )
Cellmonk- I counted even the expression of an opinion as a vote, so technically yes, you did vote. :P
Post by: RAM on March 23, 2012, 10:16:50 pm
As for the bear, the rangers felt it appropriate to leave a warning about it, so it is not completely inconsequential, and just the commotion might attract some guards away, it would probably be the most interesting thing to happen all week... The problem arises in attracting it to the camp. So far, the only means I have heard of sending it there is to have Omo sneak into the camp and leave a lure. Now remember, the lure requires a trail for the bear to follow, and Omo is not perfect. The risk to Omo is the big flaw with the bearstraction...
There is also the issue of the state of the guards. Escape would likely require only getting over the river, and bored guards can be slow to react and are likely distracted by their own efforts to find amusement. Something interesting, like a bear showing up, may serve to heighten awareness for some time...
Post by: Deep Waters on March 23, 2012, 10:29:14 pm
I was always in favour of crossing to the north and never advocated crossing at night. Evading numerous trained hunters to cross a large river via a means that was not intended to be used that way doesn't sound like something that an elf from the city would consider practical. But Omo is the expert on such matters and it is true that if someone does not seem to be posing a threat that it is unlikely that the rangers would pursue them across the river or risk a scuffle on a rope dangling over a large river...
As for the bear, the rangers felt it appropriate to leave a warning about it, so it is not completely inconsequential, and just the commotion might attract some guards away, it would probably be the most interesting thing to happen all week... The problem arises in attracting it to the camp. So far, the only means I have heard of sending it there is to have Omo sneak into the camp and leave a lure. Now remember, the lure requires a trail for the bear to follow, and Omo is not perfect. The risk to Omo is the big flaw with the bearstraction...
There is also the issue of the state of the guards. Escape would likely require only getting over the river, and bored guards can be slow to react and are likely distracted by their own efforts to find amusement. Something interesting, like a bear showing up, may serve to heighten awareness for some time...
I see. I'm sorry, I must have read some suggestions you made about an option and assumed that you personally supported the option. I'll make sure to change it in a moment.
Put that way, crossing the river might actually work. (I still think the bearstraction idea is unfeasible, though.) However, I think a potential problem with the whole "run right through the rangers" idea might be the Council's reaction to the whole thing. It's one thing for a pair of Elves (one of them a former Ranger himself) to sneak out of the country under the noses of the Rangers, it's another thing entirely for those two to flagrantly evade what amounts to a large portion of the Elven military force. It could cause them to lose face, even if only in the eyes of other Elves. It might also harm our cause about- since we were the ones to crystallize support for what was previously an unpopular idea (sending emissaries out into the world to help against the necromancers instead of sealing ourselves off), it might weaken the position of those who want to reach out and strengthen the cause of those who advocate isolationism. (And look how that turned out for America. <<; )
It's a long view, certainly. But elves have long memories, and we don't how proud (read: arrogant, vain, conceited, egotistic) they are normally, let alone the Council. People in positions of power tend to have overinflated ideas about their self-worth. An idea that may look better in the short term might contribute to (or cause) a far more difficult situation later on.
Post by: Angle on March 23, 2012, 11:49:33 pm
Post by: Deep Waters on March 23, 2012, 11:54:20 pm
I'd also like to change to going north. Seems much safer.
Done.
I think I'll just edit this one post when someone desires to change their vote. That'll keep the spam levels... slightly lower. Hopefully. <<;
EDITS:
oh by the way I may have sated this before, but I'm for night crossing.
Ah, you must be the one I accidentally deleted! I'll get to that shortly. EDIT: Oh, wait, nope. I put you down for daycrossing, so it can't be you. Dammit. >:(
Indeed it is good sirHead north
Is that a vote I spy, good sir?
'Tis done, good sir!
Post by: racnor on March 24, 2012, 03:21:19 pm
Post by: Grek on March 24, 2012, 03:42:56 pm
Post by: Deep Waters on March 24, 2012, 05:09:04 pm
How would the rangers be able to identify Nym? they would know Omo, but no one would be certain who he was running with, and Omo never encountered the council at all
It's not like everyone in Yicelafo is trying to escape Elf Country right now, and even if they were they wouldn't be heading towards the Land of Marauding Necromancers. Once they've realized we're gone (which may or may not take a while- we're not exactly known for our Legendary Social Skills) and they get reports of two elves (one of them a deserter, and I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to identify Omo as being our best friend, as it seems like he's the only one we really hang around with/know in our hometown- plus, wouldn't it be possible that they'd think we talked Omo into deserting when it was practically the other way around?) running the border only a few days after our disappearance, it won't be hard for them to put two-and-two together.
We can communicate with the bear well enough to get it to go to the Ranger Camp, I'm pretty sure.
But can we keep it from causing too much damage? Can we communicate to the bear that the Rangers are unlikely to want to hurt it, thus keeping it from running off at the first arrow that lands at its feet? Heck, can we even communicate to it that we want it to cause havoc for a while, instead of just lumbering through, gobbling up the fish (or whatever we put at the end of the trail to get its attention), and leaving? Without being able to communicate directly with the bear (at least as much as you can communicate directly with a bear in this universe; I'm not sure how articulate we could be and I doubt we'll ever find out, animal communication being Life magic and all), it's simply too unpredictable to be worth the amount of time it'd take to do it- which would be at least two hours to go there and back, and that's not including the time (and risk, probably to Omo since we don't exactly have Move Silently +20 as one of our skills) needed to set up the trail first.
I honestly liked the bearstraction idea when I thought we had a chance with communicating meaningfully with it. Without that, it's too risky to chance.
Post by: Grek on March 24, 2012, 05:57:15 pm
1. Go find that bear that the trailsign warned about before and use a combination of Calm Animal and knowledge of the location of delicious honeycomb also mention by the trailsign to wheedle the bear into serving as a distraction for us by screwing around in the ranger's tents. Time this so that the bear is at the camp after dark.
2. While the rangers are being distracted by our bearstraction, cross the river under cover of darkness.
3. Run like hell.
So, key points that people seem to keep missing: We already know where to find a bear. We already know where to find some delicious honeycomb. The Bearstraction plan, in detail, is to cast Calm Animal on the bear, then offer it some of the honeycomb. When it eats the honeycomb, offer to give it the rest if it will come with you to just outside the ranger camp. Keep in mind that when Monk commented on the proposal, he said that we would be able to get the bear to come with us and the only potential problem he mentioned was that we'd get back with the bear after dark. Which is what the original plan called for and what I was voting for.
Bottom line: We have no absolutely good reason to think that the Bearstraction plan is non-viable from a "failure to communicate with bears" standpoint. The entire discussion of "will we be able to convince the bear to work with us" is 100% a red herring based on people's preconceptions of how elves, magic, fauna and rangers work and 0% actual valid problems with the idea.
Post by: Deep Waters on March 24, 2012, 06:12:09 pm
Keep in mind that I really do like the bearstraction idea- it's quite original, to say the least. I'm merely playing devil's advocate- the fact that I'm honestly skeptical has nothing to do with it.
Post by: Grek on March 24, 2012, 09:59:11 pm
Post by: RAM on March 24, 2012, 10:07:03 pm
Post by: Deep Waters on March 24, 2012, 10:15:23 pm
There's the beauty of the plan. Once we get the bear into the ranger's camp, we don't actually need it to do anything particular. The fact that there is a bear in the ranger's camp is sufficent distraction for our needs. Anything additionally disruptive/distracting that the bear ends up doing is an unexpected bonus that will only help us. Even if the bear goes in only to be promptly chased out by the rangers, we've still won. They're focused on the bear and we're already half way across the river.
Hm... alright. I get your reasoning. There's still way too much that can go wrong, so while I like it, I can't really support it. I won't try to blatantly shoot it down anymore, though. :P
Also, Monk needs to check out his own thread more often. How many pages is it since the last time he posted now? I'll take the blame for it, as it's mostly my fault (what can I say? I get really enthusiastic about things I enjoy ^poker face^), but still. I suspect he's too busy with the new DF release to pay attention. :P (Which means he's probably not going to be coming back for awhile... damn. :()
Post by: Grek on March 24, 2012, 10:20:44 pm
Post by: Deep Waters on March 24, 2012, 10:25:49 pm
:P
But seriously. Siccing a bear on fellow elves (no matter how "peacefully") may not fly with the folks back home, so to speak. Plus, the long-term ramifications I discussed earlier, with the whole humiliation factor involving two elves (one of them a deserter, the other with no combat experience to speak of) escaping a large portion of the Elf "military".
EDIT: ... Oh dear. I did it again. <<;
Post by: lockman766 on March 24, 2012, 11:13:01 pm
Post by: bombzero on March 25, 2012, 01:33:51 am
@bearstraction; im worried about how well rangers can handle a bear, will they calmly shoo it off with magic? or panic and shoot it? (also, id like to point out that these don't seem to be DF elves. re-read the story if you think im wrong.)
@going north, time consuming, chance of running into patrols, but less chance of getting caught or damaging our gear overall
@rangers at crossing/monk; on a scale of 1 to 10, how much do elves frown on deserting? we have a good cause and all. does Omo have any close friends in his unit? perhaps that would happily pretend they didn't see us at request?
furthermore, has Omo really deserted? he could walk right into camp and say he got 'distracted' (aka partied alot) at the festival, only aware of his post days later.
option 1: continuing on this, have Omo walk into the camp with this excuse.
decision 1:
a) have him try to bluff his and our way across.
b) have him make a distraction of some sort while unseen, we sneak across, he actually deserts in the night and follows.
decision 2:
a) what is his full excuse? did he party for days? makes him appear negligent and he will be watched closely.
b) or was he simply uninformed of his new post? making haste their after learning of it. he appears duty-bound but unattentive, making it easier to slip away, but might be a hard lie to get past.
option 2:
go for the crossing together, take the rope, maybe run once on the other side in case we are followed.
decision 1:
a) day, would surprise the guards, especially if we bluster out something about needing to cross in a hurry, by order of the council while running past. they won't actually believe it but it will buy us a few seconds.
b) day, casually walk up and say we were ordered to the other side by the council, reasonable enough, considering they probably have not heard of Nyms idea being rejected or accepted, and might not consider Omo as having deserted.
c) night, try to sneak by, unlikely, may result in us or Omo getting shot in the confusion.
option 3:
it has been confirmed we CAN lead a bear to the camp, and we DO have the means to do so.
decision 1: (after luring bear.)
a) throw honey-comb into middle of camp, startling the rangers as the bear plods after it. will draw a lot of attention, but make human involvement obvious.
b) toss it into the sleeping area, drawing less attention, but it simply appears to be a bear wandering into the camp.
decision 2: (after bear enters camp.)
a) already decided option of running for the rope.
b) run in yelling about a bear and acting like it had been after us for the honeycomb we had been carrying, which we threw out along the way. the guards run towards the bear, we run towards the rope. by the time they realize they have been duped, were crossing.
so yeah, these all depend on the rangers in the camp's opinion of Nym and Omo, and how much they know about whats going on with the council. thoughts?
Post by: Draigh on March 25, 2012, 04:34:07 am
And it is not like we can catch up with the current two necromancers who are already publicly active for months and probably have a year or so in experience at the least. We'll just have to outsmart them. And that we can do, because we are all smart people here working together, right? ;-)
The key isn't to try to figure out a complicated plan that will work if everything goes right and then try to make it go right, but instead to think of a plan that works out for you regardless of what happens. This is one of those plans. Consider: Even if the absolute worst case happens, and we get caught by the rangers, we now have a legit excuse for running towards the river as fast as we can: We're running away from the bear!I agree, although probably not in the way that you meant it. We need a plan that even when it fails, brings us what we need.
As for the crossing ideas, being the devil's advocate:
1) Walking into the camp and bluffing -> Elves might not be used to other elves running away. That does not make them stupid and I seriously doubt that these elves will even consider Omo's bluff. They'll probably just tie him up and drag his ass to the capitol for punishment for deserting. Even if they do believe his excuses there (about partying and all) during the trial, we'll be losing much more time and/or an ally this way.
2) Buying a few seconds time will not be nearly enough to be able to cross. Nym is not trained, the rangers are. Meaning that the rangers are going to be faster than Nym and those seconds will be caught up pretty fast. As for bluffing, again, these Elves are not stupid. They might be blissfully unaware of the necromancer-elf, but that has more to do with our careful moves than their unawareness and stupidity.
3) I seriously doubt ALL the elven rangers are going to leave ALL their posts, including the most important point of crossing, to scare away ONE bear that might be after some food. Remember that there are several ranger patrols in this area, more than usual. The rangers in the camp can handle that one bear just fine without the other rangers needing to worry.
Now.. if we could get a whole group of animals to simultaneously go ravage that camp.. that would be a distraction. Too bad that we have a talent for Death magic and not Life magic...
Best case scenario: Elves are gullible fools that believe anything -> plan works like a charm.
Worst case scenario: Elves are nasty, especially after rumors of necromancers -> They shoot to kill, we end up dead.
I remain of the opinion that crossing at that point is foolish, as it currently is pretty much the most guarded spot in the elven lands. It is also the place where they will check first for tracks when they notice we're gone because it is the most likely place we would try to cross (which is also why it is so guarded, because it is the most likely place to cross).
Think outside of the box and go somewhere else for crossing. After all, we are working with Death magic and not Life magic. We should start getting used to thinking outside of the box and letting go of familiar territory. And I have seen you guys do just that several times already, with good results.
As for Monk, our gamemaster... anyone here that is able to poke him personally?
Post by: NoahTophatz on March 25, 2012, 04:49:18 am
Post by: Ehndras on March 25, 2012, 04:49:52 am
Also,
*pokes Monk*
Post by: NoahTophatz on March 25, 2012, 04:52:40 am
Post by: bombzero on March 25, 2012, 05:32:41 am
on a scale of 1 to 10, how much of a fucking freakout would an undead bear cause at the ranger camp? possibly one controlled by Nym? i mean Omo doesn't even have to be told WHAT the distraction is. this is probably a horrible idea but it just popped into my head.
Post by: Ehndras on March 25, 2012, 05:53:25 am
or go north, im actually not sure why there IS resistance against that option, i was suggesting more thought out theories for what everyone else was going on about.
on a scale of 1 to 10, how much of a fucking freakout would an undead bear cause at the ranger camp? possibly one controlled by Nym? i mean Omo doesn't even have to be told WHAT the distraction is. this is probably a horrible idea but it just popped into my head.
That is assuming we can kill the bear first. >_>
Post by: RAM on March 25, 2012, 07:45:46 am
The thing about crossing, is that once we are over the river, we should be fine, provided that it is daytime. At night, shoot-to-kill becomes a possibility, because they won't necessarily know that we are elves. But during daytime it should be safe to assume that they won't risk a scuffle that would likely result in someone falling into the river. But even reaching the rope seems a tad unlikely to me, but Omo thinks that it is the best option... As for night-time, well, killing something that is trying to leave doesn't seem like the best option, but you don't want criminals, smugglers, and spies thinking that they can come-and-go as they please...
But as I see it...
North: more chance of being spotted by patrols, no formal crossing.
Day: Less chance of reaching the rope, better chance of survival once it is reached.
Night: Higher chance of both success and death.
Bear: Fewer guards, more alertness.
South: more chance of being spotted by patrols, decent chance of another crossing.
South seems silly, it stands to reason that all the crossings will be similarly guarded and the river will just get worse.
Night doesn't seem to be worth it to me. There is no safety until being amidst the trees on the far side and no capacity to dodge on the rope. the only real chance of success it to completely evade detection. A desirable goal to be sure, but not one that seems likely to me.
Day seem plausible, but relies on surprise and confusion... What are the odds that one of those "handful of simple illusions" could be used to further confuse the rangers, make it appear that we are injured or ghosts or diseased or something?
Bearstraction seems like a good bit of ingenuity, but I think that we would be better off with lots of bored guards than a few excited ones...
North is my personal favourite, it is just more of the same that we have been doing previously, but it may be a long time before the river calms enough to be crossed and patrols along the river are likely to be heavier...
To be fair, this may be the northern-most crossing in elven territory, and may have an inordinate amount of security because it is distant from any reinforcements. heading south may get us a less heavily guarded crossing with guards that won't recognise us...
Post by: Grek on March 25, 2012, 09:23:29 am
Post by: Deep Waters on March 25, 2012, 12:56:16 pm
@deep waters, your personal text is hilariously accurate.
Now, bombzero, what could you possibly mean by that? ;D
No, seriously. What do you mean by that? ???
Alright, for things that are game related, here is what we officially know about our situation. Everything is almost directly copied from Monk, whether through Omo's mouth or directly from the man himself.
The Problem:
-There's a lot of Rangers here, and I'm not sure we can slip past them.
-[There's] [e]nough to repulse an attack from the river, and more than enough to catch us if we aren't careful.
-It looks like this is a local staging point for the Rangers, protecting the ferry at Larathor.
-From what I can tell, there's a picket watching the ferry at all times, and lots of Rangers in the treeline up and down the Great River.
-[They're] too busy looking out to keep more than a cursory eye on the Walled Jungle behind them.
The Options:
-[W]e could try to make it to the ferry. We'd almost certainly be spotted, but if we can get across the guiderope before the sentries catch up we should be alright. [The guiderope is] a rope that runs from one bank of the river to the other. The ferry almost certainly won't be on our side of the river, and we can't wait for it to come to us, so we'll have to do it the old fashioned way. Hand over hand.
--We could try it under the cover of darkness, which would be much more dangerous but might let us make it unseen.
-[G]o around[.] Either option would take us days out of our way, and we'd still have to worry about Ranger patrols while we're traveling.
--[W]e could go north and try to find a spot we can swim across or ford[.]
--[W]e could go south and try to wave down a boat[.]
--[I]f we go south far enough we'll hit another town sooner or later.
Extra Information:
The River- Call it 800 feet wide, 15 feet at its deepest- maybe a bit more due to spring flooding. Normally the current isn't too fast, but it's still not easy to swim against if you have to, and it'd suck if you happen to hit a branch on the way across. If we cross here, we shouldn't have to worry about whirlpools or other dangers though.
The Rangers- I'm pretty sure my old unit is the band stationed here[.] They probably already know I deserted, since I should already be with them, and if we run into any officers they'll probably know I'm not assigned to any other duties. [T]here'll be too many trained Rangers to account for [to win in a fight]. About the only thing in our favor there is that they won't use lethal force, so they're not going to riddle us with arrows mid-river.
Your Swimming Skill- You are not actually a trained swimmer. Your fishing experience has made you comfortable wading in deep water, and you can doggy paddle well enough, but if something happens in open water you have less-than-good odds of being able to swim your way out of it. Not that you'd expect something terrible to happen, and the Great River is not known for its deadly schools of carp or anything, but it is a risk to be aware of.
The Other Side- [T]he town on the other side is Larathor- it isn't exactly The Big City, but it's a prosperous trading town on the Caravan Route from west to east, and also handles some trade north to south along the river.
Waterproofing- One [is] a minor water-repelling spell intended for raincloaks; you think you can adapt it for your purposes, though you aren't sure if it is potent enough to stand up to complete submersion. It seems to be fairly easy to learn- a few hours of study, and you should have it figured out no later than noon tomorrow. The other spell is described as a way to make writing permanent, allowing it to survive any number of indignities. It looks a lot more complicated to learn, however, and the complexity means you can't really assess how versatile or potent it is. It could easily take you a couple of days to get working.
Tiredness- [W]hile weary, you are not so tired that it will significantly affect your skill checks should the worst happen.
Bear- [T]he bear was probably a solid hour's hike back up the trail- judicious application of honeycomb and Calm Animal should be enough to lure the bear to the Ranger camp, but you wouldn't get back until after dark, if that affects your plan.
Items- Elven Cloak <- If you mouse over this, it says "Mostly waterproof". Take from that what you will. ;D
Omo Says- I say we just make a run for it.
You Say- Omo seems confident in his ability to outrun the Rangers, but you are somewhat less sure.
I'll start with options that are not crossing now.
First off, I'll omit the Ranger patrol concerns because it's far more likely we'll be caught by crossing now anyways. The only comment I'll make about that is that the extra days will probably see patrols thickening as more Rangers pour in from the heart of Elfland.
It appears that if we attempt to cross at a more northerly area, we may run into whirlpools and other water hazards. Not really surprising, now that I think of it; IIRC rivers that come from mountains tend to widen after their source, attaining slower currents becoming easier to cross. That's problematic enough, but if the angle of the land is too steep the river might become whitewater rapids further north, especially with the spring flooding- there's no way we could cross safely then. If we do go north, hopefully we'll be able to find a place to cross long before we get into any rapid areas. :-\
Going south, then, would be more viable from a cross-the-river standpoint. It's also closer to the route after the river that the majority of us seem to want to take- at least the majority that has stated an opinion- but it's also likely to be more heavily guarded than the north- for good reason, but still. Also, Omo didn't suggest attempting to cross/ford the river if we go south, so there's probably something he knows about the river's southerly route that he thinks will prevent us from being able to cross it- probably something on the order of "it gets much wider" or "the Ranger patrols will be able to stop us too easily" or something.
Waving down a boat sounds as if it might be difficult. How likely is it that a boat will see us and, if seen, how likely is it that the boat will be willing transport two dirty, shifty-looking vagabonds off the side of a river- vagabonds that for some reason didn't decide to take the easier and more obvious route of riding the ferry- any ferry? Even if they are, they'll probably want something- what will we give them in return? The only things of any value we have on us are our coin, the mana potion, the one crystal, and possibly Omo's staff.
Going further south to another town has the one advantage of maybe being able to bluff our way across without running afoul of Omo's former mates. Of course, if our mother has any sort of pull and has any sort of overbearing maternal instincts, that also makes it more likely that any Rangers we run into town (and probably other individuals as well) will know who we are. We'd have to get some sort of disguise then, and what kind of disguise can we cobble together from what we have right now?
Crossing the river now has several advantages and one big disadvantage. It's the one point in which we can reveal ourselves voluntarily and create a plausible reason for us being there- I doubt we'd be able to explain to Ranger #5 why we as law-abiding elf citizens were trying to dodge his/her patrol, and it's also the one point where the river crossing itself is guaranteed- we know there's a crossing there; we just have an lot of obstacles between us and it. If we use the guiderope, it'll help keep our gear dry (dryer than the majority of the other options, anyways) and if we accidentally fall into the river or something we'll at least be near plenty of Rangers to rescue us from drowning. However, being ostensibly the most guarded point along the Great River, it's the point where we're most likely to be caught. If we make one mistake, it's game over- we'll be too closely watched to be able to sneak out again, and I doubt we'll be able to influence the Council to do anything like actually interact with the outside world afterwards- we'd be lucky if they even granted us audience.
I still support going north, by the way. Just listing the facts.
TL; DR: No. You read it NOW! >:O
But seriously. It's hard to summarize it all. Um... north- water hazards, south- heavily guarded/other possible dangers, crossing now- most likely get caught?
Post by: RAM on March 25, 2012, 05:10:38 pm
Post by: Deep Waters on March 25, 2012, 05:32:56 pm
I would just assume that the (1) further south you go the more water there will be in the river as it joins up with however many minor water-sources, and it is already too significant to just wade across, I think... (2) North may split it up into several smaller rivers that can be crossed without assistance, although that would likely take a long time. If there is a place far enough north that the rangers would not patrol it then more time would be available to construct a fording device of some sort...
(1) That's basically what I said, just with a little more detail.
(2) That or the rapids idea. It would depend on how far up the river you go. The "smaller rivers" idea is more likely higher up the river, while the "rapids" idea is more likely a little lower down, though only in places with steep-angled hills or whatever.
(3) I think the further north we go, the less likely we are to encounter rangers, and as time goes by I bet they'll end up clustering near centers of trade (i.e. the best places to cross the river, as centers of trade tend to grow up around those places), though I doubt the patrols will stop entirely unless we go far enough north that we leave Elfland without even crossing the river. But- and I've brought this up before- could we survive that far north, even for a few days? We aren't exactly bundled up for the cold, and Omo might not have cold weather training. It's the spring going on summer, but that just means that things are warming up, not that they're warm enough for us- hypothermia is still possible, especially way up north and during the night (though we may be able to find a spell that could protect against it). If we go too far north, that also means the danger of getting caught in an avalanche is higher (though I don't think there's any need to go that far north). If we plan on heading south after crossing the river, it would also mean that much more time before we can attempt to learn more information about necromancy through Thrimesdur's libraries- time the other necromancers could use to grow their power bases even further.
So, going north would depend a lot on our luck, I think. In fact, everything depends a lot on luck. Y'know, if Omo had paid attention to where his unit would be stationed next, he could've just gone with them and met up with us later. Would've saved us a lot of trouble. <<; In fact, Nym, you should scold Omo for not knowing his unit would be stationed here. Do it gently, but scold him. Shame on you, Omo! >:(
Also, going to add a bit more info to my former post.
Post by: racnor on March 25, 2012, 09:51:18 pm
on a totally different subject, in some later update (not this one, there's too much going on already) could you list the spells we can learn from the book? right now it's just solid deus ex machina
Post by: Grek on March 25, 2012, 10:03:17 pm
Post by: NoahTophatz on March 26, 2012, 01:43:40 am
Post by: RAM on March 26, 2012, 05:13:31 am
Post by: Deep Waters on March 26, 2012, 08:26:39 am
Head north
Is that a vote I spy, good sir?
Post by: NoahTophatz on March 26, 2012, 04:11:38 pm
Indeed it is good sirHead north
Is that a vote I spy, good sir?
Post by: monk12 on March 26, 2012, 04:38:43 pm
Spoiler: Author's Note (click to show/hide)
Running probably isn't going to work. Yeah, Omo could make it, but we're tired and we've never gone hand over hand on a rope in our entire lives. We will fail comically if we attempt it at any significant speed and our dad will find out and we will be grounded until we're 50.
Here's my suggestion:
0. This is something that we should do regardless of which plan we choose: Look through Prestidigitation for the Beginning Practitioner for basic waterproofing spells that are safe to apply to the book and to our writing materials. It would seriously suck if we managed to get across the river only to discover that our one and only source of general magical knowledge was ruined by the water.
1. Go find that bear that the trailsign warned about before and use a combination of Calm Animal and knowledge of the location of delicious honeycomb also mention by the trailsign to wheedle the bear into serving as a distraction for us by screwing around in the ranger's tents. Time this so that the bear is at the camp after dark.
2. While the rangers are being distracted by our bearstraction, cross the river under cover of darkness.
3. Run like hell.
Are we an elf, or a dwarf? Why don't we just run on TOP of the rope, like a true elf, while doing various acrobatic stunts and rudely gesturing at the salmon. We could fish while we're at it.
On a serious note, do we know how to swim? couldn't we loosen a log from the shore, and paddle across? we shouldn't be too conspicuous---a log in the current. we can land further down stream.
The log would decrease both our chances of drowning and being spotted.
We could attach our supplies to the underside of the log, using our leather.
You got a better idea?
Well... we could try luring a bear into their camp to cause confusion.
That idea is crazy. I like it!
No, no, there's too many things that could go wrong.
Oh come on, that plan is too ridiculous to fail! It's the last thing they'd be expecting!
...I can't tell if you're being serious, Omo.
Honestly, neither can I. I still say we should go for it, though.
Let's not and say we did. Alright, what if we just swam across under cover of darkness?
I don't think I can swim that well, can you?
Well, what if we found a log or something and tried to float across with that?
Hm... that could work. Throw your stuff up on it, keep it dry.
I think I want to try learning a waterproofing spell I found first, just to be safe. And, do you have an idea of where most of the Rangers are stationed?
Probably keeping watch on the ferry. There will be patrols and sentries all along the riverbank, but I think we can evade them if their schedules aren't significantly altered from when I was a Ranger.
Alright, how about we travel north a ways and pitch camp for the night, then I'll spend tomorrow learning that spell, then we find a log and make a crossing at twilight?
Sounds good to me- let's move.
Standing, you settle your things and head northward- Omo leads you on a slightly westward curve, attempting to avoid any errant Elven Rangers. Afternoon quickly gives way to evening, and then dusk. Urging stealth, Omo makes no fire, and instead of setting up the tent he fashions a crude lean-to from scattered branches. You settle down for a cold, uncomfortable night, while Omo falls immediately asleep.
The next morning dawns chilly and clear as you groggily stumble from your shelter and stretch out your various aches and pains. Omo is already gone, but you don't worry about it too much, and after breaking out your trail rations for a morning meal you get down to studying your spellbook. The spell itself seems fairly straightforward, but the language it is couched in is unfamiliar and high-handed. You were taught your other General Magic spells by a patient teacher who could demonstrate the spell in action and speak in terms you could relate to- you learned the spell as a matter of instinct and emotion, and came to understand the details later. This book is technical, forcing you to deduce the process from the explanation of its workings. It is as though somebody tried to explain what a plus sign is by giving you 2+2+3=7 with no other explanation. It is, in a word, frustrating.
Eventually, your grumbling and perseverance pays off when you finally manage to cast the spell. Waterproof makes an object non-absorbent for an hour per point of Mana, effectively preventing the water from harming the target. Large quantities of water (like a typhoon or complete submersion) can reduce the duration of the spell, but even so it should be more than enough to get across the river. Since it doesn't actually prevent contact, it doesn't work on acids or certain potions, and it doesn't rustproof. It's well suited for keeping paper, leather, and clothing dry, or preventing the dissolution of ink in water, and that's about it.
You idly eat a light midday meal, wondering where Omo got to. After a few hours of fidgeting, you finally hear a rustling in the bushes, and soon see Omo hauling a sizable log on a makeshift sledge toward your clearing.
Hey Nym! This bloody thing was surprisingly hard to find- I really thought there would be more deadwood out here.
I was wondering where you went. Do you really think we need that large of a log?
The way I figure, it can't hurt. Ready to go?
I think we should wait until it starts getting dark- we'll be harder to spot.
I was hoping you'd changed your mind. Alright- got anything to pass the time? Cards or dice? Anything?
Not really.
...I spy with my little eye, something that is green.
Is it the forest?
Yep! Your turn!
*sigh* I spy with my little eye...
Several hours of I Spy later, the sun begins to set. You quickly waterproof your spellbook before wrapping it and your scroll case in your cloak, just for insurance. The sun is down, but there is plenty of light to see by when you reach the river, and you pause for a moment in awe. The river is rather wide, but that's nothing special- you've spent plenty of time around moving water. No, the sight that takes your breath away is the plains beyond.
In Yicelafo, you've never been able to see more than a hundred yards away- the forest is called the Walled Jungle for a reason. But here, at the edge of the woods, you can see for miles. The plains of Thrimesdur are covered with a blanket of tall, waving grass, broken only by the odd shrub or small tree. You can feel a gentle night breeze blowing your way, carrying the fresh scent of green spring grass and blooming flowers. You can see clear to the horizon, where the stars are beginning to shine in the eastern sky, and the Moon makes its triumphant debut. Almost, you imagine you can see beyond the plains, to the wasteland of the Sacred Grove, to the Black Swamp of the Golgothans, to the mountainhomes of the Dwarves, and beyond.
Omo grins at you.
So you feel it too, eh?
What?
The pull of far-off lands. The knowledge that there is more to see than you can possibly imagine, a world without walls. I've felt it ever since my first patrol brought me to the border, not all that far north of here. You should see the mountains- majestic is the only word I have for them, and it is woefully inadequate.
Yeah... I think I understand you a little better, Omo.
Hm?
Nevermind- let's get this log in the water.
Hastily, you drag the log to the river's edge, splashing into the shallows. The log floats low in the water, but it floats, and Omo expertly lashes your belongings to the top. Omo quickly shucks off his boots, shirt, and pants, tying them to the log.
Hurry up and strip, Nym!
I've got my tunic and boots off, I think I'm alright with an undershirt, Omo.
For the love of... look, the biggest danger in this river is getting too tired before we cross, and the more clothes you wear, the harder you have to swim. Not to mention if your unmentionables are wet, you'll catch your death of cold!
Hey! Who's there?
Glancing back, you see a Ranger emerging from the trees, bow in hand.
No time! In we go!
What are you doing? Stop!
Plunging into the water, you wade into the current, quickly losing touch with the bottom. With Omo beside you, you begin kicking as well as you can, pushing your log further into the river. Hazarding a backward glance, you see the Ranger on the riverbank, arrow at his bowstring. Clearly he is reluctant to fire, and instead keeps yelling for you to return.
Progress across the river is distressingly slow, as you and Omo find yourselves outmassed by the item-laden log. You distinctly feel you are floating downriver faster than you are crossing, but at least you are making headway. There's a bad moment at mid-river when you feel an undertow dragging at you, but you and Omo resist the pull and continue on. Soon enough, you can feel the current weakening, and your feet touch bottom on the opposite side. You wade ashore in Thrimesdur, sodden but free and away from Yicelafo.
Ha ha! Oh, but it is good to be out here.
It certainly took long enough- that river looks a lot wider now that I've swum it.
So it does. Well, what do you say- should we camp here and head into Larathor tomorrow, or press on and sleep in an inn tonight? I don't know about you, but I'm wet, cold, and hungry- food, fire and a bed sound like they're worth another hour's walk!
You are about to agree as you shrug your tunic back on, but then you remember your promise to yourself. "First night in the wilderness, away from settlement and elves- that's when I'll tell Omo I'm a Necromancer." Maybe this doesn't count though- after all, Larathor isn't all that far off, and it might be better to wait until you are deeper in Thrimesdur. What to do, what to do...
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: Ehndras on March 26, 2012, 04:48:59 pm
Post by: Draigh on March 26, 2012, 04:57:50 pm
My vote:
We are not in the wilderness yet (one hour walk from a village or city is NOT wilderness), just out of the elven forests. Get a nice sleep at the inn to celebrate our freedom and dry up from our swim.
Also: gather information at said inn about current state of affairs, local mages, general thoughts about magic in Thrimesdur and get the opinions of these humans about elves. That way we know what to expect for the future.
Finally: Check book for basic illusion spells that can alter ones appearance. If they do not like elves, we might want to work on an illusion and pose as humans.
Post by: Deep Waters on March 26, 2012, 05:21:35 pm
YES! WE'RE PAST THE RIVER (AND MY FIRST ACTUAL STORY-POST THING IN THIS THREAD)! ^victorydance^
Ahem. Now that that's out of the way. :P
I think the only downside to waiting a little longer is that longer we wait, the angrier Omo might get for us not telling him. Even if he does accept our necro-ness wholeheartedly, he may be mad at us for not trusting him. He sounds like a pretty cool guy (his reaction to Project Bearstraction attests to that) but still, that's a huge thing to ask of someone. Plus, the fact that we'll be breaking a promise to ourselves, and that's never fun. :(
My personal vote is just getting to Larathor first. We're wet, we're tired and we're bound to word something wrong here or there. (Plus, these things require careful timing for maximum drama. ;D) I'm merely pointing out a few of the possible consequences.
whoohoo, the story continues!
My vote:
We are not in the wilderness yet (one hour walk from a village or city is NOT wilderness), just out of the elven forests. Get a nice sleep at the inn to celebrate our freedom and dry up from our swim.
Also: gather information at said inn about current state of affairs, local mages, general thoughts about magic in Thrimesdur and get the opinions of these humans about elves. That way we know what to expect for the future.
Finally: Check book for basic illusion spells that can alter ones appearance. If they do not like elves, we might want to work on an illusion and pose as humans.
You ninja'd me literally milliseconds before I hit the post button. _ _U
In any case- I agree with this completely. (Well, almost completely.) I don't believe the illusion spell is necessary quite yet- there's nothing we've heard so far that indicates we elves would receive anything more than a lukewarm welcome, at worst. Plus, Larathor appears to be a trading post between everyone along the river, including elves. They might not be as cosmopolitan as those buccaneers of the Jeweled Coast, but they're probably not that isolated. The elves might send a messenger to be on the lookout for two elves that skipped the border for whatever reason, but I don't know if they'll make that much of an effort, especially if they don't know Omo the Deserter is one of them. It'll probably take a lot longer than an hour for that one elf that saw us to report back, and longer than that for them to organize the whole message thing, anyway. If we just stay overnight, there shouldn't be a problem. The spell might come in handy later, though, if the inner cities are less... tolerant. (I doubt it, but there's always those who think the elves are cowards or elitists or something. Y'know, for hiding away from everyone.) Plus, what sticks out more than an elf in a city of humans? We'll get a lot of attention just for being elves, and while I doubt it'd be too negative (unless Yicelafo kicks up a fuss, then the rulers of Thrimesdur might deport us- but I'm pretty sure they all have bigger things to worry about right now), if we ever get found out it'd be pretty easy to recognize who we are no matter where in Thrimesdur we go.
And some attention, while not negative, I doubt we would want at all... (...fetishists anyone? <<;)
Speaking of which, we've talked a lot about how the necromancers are probably much stronger and more skilled than us. But can we assume that they know any other kind of magic, like we do? We weren't exactly the greatest mage in the world before manifesting our powers, so maybe the other necromancers weren't either (in fact, I'm almost positive the Pirate King wasn't)- and I doubt they'd waste time on learning it when they have so many undead armies to raise already. These general utility spells don't sound like much, and against an undead army they aren't, really, but they might be our best tools against the evil necromancer menace (as distinct from the awesome necromancer good guys, aka us).
Post by: bombzero on March 26, 2012, 05:25:39 pm
Post by: Grek on March 26, 2012, 05:29:35 pm
Post by: bombzero on March 26, 2012, 05:31:17 pm
Lets wait until we're dry and well rested for this.
Oh idea, once we get into experiment mode, try to find a way to create traps via necromancy, I don't have many ideas, but animating objects has potential.
not now, or even soon, i was suggesting putting it on our experiment "to-do" list.
Post by: lockman766 on March 26, 2012, 06:12:03 pm
Post by: bombzero on March 26, 2012, 06:19:11 pm
As for telling Omo that were a necro we should wait until we are in town(inside an inn),or traveling to the next town.
nonononononono telling him in towns, what if we are overheard by even one person??? or if he is shocked and blurts it out accidentally in surprise? we wouldn't just have to explain to Omo, but the entirety of the town while they are trying to burn us at the stake (or whatever humans do to necromancers.)
telling him on the road, when nobody else is in sight for miles, would probably be our best bet.
Post by: Deep Waters on March 26, 2012, 06:20:50 pm
Post by: Grek on March 26, 2012, 06:22:44 pm
not now, or even soon, i was suggesting putting it on our experiment "to-do" list.
I meant the conversation. The conversation should wait until we're dry and rested.
Post by: bombzero on March 26, 2012, 06:26:01 pm
if people have recently posted on multiple ideas, and your comment is undirected. begin it with something like]
@ [idea1]
-stuff-
@[idea2]
-stuff-
reduces confusion substantially.
Post by: Ehndras on March 26, 2012, 06:28:39 pm
Post by: Deep Waters on March 26, 2012, 06:31:58 pm
You can make a poll and just change it every turn, that's what everyone does for these situations. :)
I've never been able to change my votes on those, though. Plus, doesn't it have to be the maker of the thread that puts it up? :/
Post by: monk12 on March 26, 2012, 07:05:19 pm
Post by: Felius on March 26, 2012, 07:30:46 pm
I think we might want to tell him that we have something that we need to talk with him once we are dry, rested, and there's no chance at all of anyone overhearing us, it might mollify having waited before telling him. I don't know if it's a good idea though, it might make him unquiet and start wondering the worst.
Post by: Grek on March 26, 2012, 07:33:33 pm
Post by: Felius on March 26, 2012, 08:05:27 pm
Post by: Angle on March 26, 2012, 09:03:26 pm
My only issue with this is, well, we're basically just outside the river, like, if we shout we could talk with the ranger patrol in the other side. Hmm, still, talking with him here is likely the best alternative. Hmm, as a tentative vote: Let's camp 500m-1km of the river, let's talk to him in the morning after/during breakfast.+1
Post by: Cellmonk on March 26, 2012, 09:04:39 pm
+1My only issue with this is, well, we're basically just outside the river, like, if we shout we could talk with the ranger patrol in the other side. Hmm, still, talking with him here is likely the best alternative. Hmm, as a tentative vote: Let's camp 500m-1km of the river, let's talk to him in the morning after/during breakfast.+1
Post by: dpickle on March 26, 2012, 10:31:43 pm
My only issue with this is, well, we're basically just outside the river, like, if we shout we could talk with the ranger patrol in the other side. Hmm, still, talking with him here is likely the best alternative. Hmm, as a tentative vote: Let's camp 500m-1km of the river, let's talk to him in the morning after/during breakfast.
+1
However, if he gets aggressive start running, if he wants to leave you after you tell him, let him.
Post by: Phantom of The Library on March 26, 2012, 10:41:33 pm
+1+1My only issue with this is, well, we're basically just outside the river, like, if we shout we could talk with the ranger patrol in the other side. Hmm, still, talking with him here is likely the best alternative. Hmm, as a tentative vote: Let's camp 500m-1km of the river, let's talk to him in the morning after/during breakfast.+1
However, if he gets aggressive start running, if he wants to leave you after you tell him, let him.We'll need to decide on a new destination then if he heads towards the town.
Post by: Draigh on March 26, 2012, 11:30:32 pm
If we just rest in the city inn first, we are well prepared to take on the future. Then we can start travelling away from the city and somewhere during lunch (half day travel) we can tell him. That way we will be having more time if things do go wrong. And I doubt he would see it in any more bad light for not telling us directly in our home town but wait for the whole festival being done, travelling to the river and crossing it and THEN tell him. Especially if you start your story with your personal struggles and fears.
Personally I think telling him while he is wet, cold, hungry and miserable... is the worst thing you can do. After all, he will interpret your message in the context of what he is already experiencing. Thus he will see it more negative then after a good nights rest in a real bed, clean clothes, a good breakfast and a brisk morning walk.
Post by: NoahTophatz on March 27, 2012, 12:31:54 am
Post by: Felius on March 27, 2012, 03:19:22 am
Post by: RAM on March 27, 2012, 07:46:17 am
Post by: GlyphGryph on March 27, 2012, 07:53:04 am
It would seem to be a waste to get so far and then run the risk of getting caught. If there's a chance of them attempting to retrieve us, we should not stay the night. But visiting the town for a couple hours to get a room, dry off, take a nap, and perhaps most importantly purchase a map of the area and ask people questions is probably a good idea.
And also, I consider "in the wilderness" to be at least a days walk from the nearest town - I don't think the time has come when people are so nearby.
Post by: Deep Waters on March 27, 2012, 08:08:52 am
I think that a fire would be quite necessary and quite obvious, and may tempt the elves to come after us even if it is not common practise. Resting in a proper inn is definitely the right course. As for Telling Omo, we made a commitment and we should stick to it, but some practicality has to enter the equation. I say that Omo should be told before the second night. It is still, sort of similar to the original commitment, and we really desperately need a dry place to rest and an isolated place to talk. But, tell Omo that there is something important to tell them. We want to be as honest with Omo as we can afford to be...
If Omo thinks there's even a chance of them coming after us, can we hide the fact that we are elves? Maybe wear some kind of hood? If so, we should be okay in the town. But again, Omo knows these people -- especially in these strange times, might they be willing to make the crossing to come get us?
It would seem to be a waste to get so far and then run the risk of getting caught. If there's a chance of them attempting to retrieve us, we should not stay the night. But visiting the town for a couple hours to get a room, dry off, take a nap, and perhaps most importantly purchase a map of the area and ask people questions is probably a good idea.
And also, I consider "in the wilderness" to be at least a days walk from the nearest town - I don't think the time has come when people are so nearby.
This pretty much sums up my opinion. As for disguises, there is that illusion spell Draigh mentioned (your name is hell on text correctors btw <<;).
EDIT: Then again, we're probably way too tired to learn a spell right now. Although, there's no point in disguises if we can't adequately explain why we look like we absorbed the river...
Post by: GlyphGryph on March 27, 2012, 08:25:14 am
Ask Omo how long it would take the elves to get there, should they attempt it, and say we can stay until then. We'll have no such time constraints in the next place we stop.
Post by: lockman766 on March 27, 2012, 11:29:02 pm
The key is just to not dawdle. That's the most important bit.I don't think we'll have to worry about them coming after us, but it never hurts to check.
Ask Omo how long it would take the elves to get there, should they attempt it, and say we can stay until then. We'll have no such time constraints in the next place we stop.
Post by: syvarris on March 28, 2012, 02:26:10 pm
Also, Go to the city after we tell Omo, but only to get a map and other supplies.
Post by: Felius on March 28, 2012, 03:58:25 pm
Anyways, He won't get the elves, since they would probably punish him for going AWOL; At worst he'll go and tell the humans what we are, and we'll have a decent head start on an angry mob. Anything better than that will take longer to mobilize.Don't know about that. He might go back even facing punishment if he believes the cause is big enough, and intel THAT big might qualify. It still would take sometime though, even if only to send word to the council.
Post by: Deep Waters on March 28, 2012, 10:56:09 pm
I'm not saying I want this to happen, of course. Just pondering possibilities. It'd be interesting character development, to say the least.
Post by: GlyphGryph on March 29, 2012, 12:52:37 am
For now, let Omo enjoy his freedom a bit, though. Who knows how long it will be before we encounter more trouble.
Visit the town for a couple hours, do whatever, and then get out.
We've still got plenty of light left, right?
Post by: lockman766 on March 29, 2012, 05:43:12 pm
Again - we wait until we're in the wilderness. At least a day from the nearest town and an hour from the nearest road. We do try to push for this situation to come about, but we want to minimize risk.+1
For now, let Omo enjoy his freedom a bit, though. Who knows how long it will be before we encounter more trouble.
Visit the town for a couple hours, do whatever, and then get out.
We've still got plenty of light left, right?
Post by: Sir E Brum on March 29, 2012, 06:16:59 pm
Also, find cheap metals in wire form (if available) and check if they conduct mana or vitality. May come in handy later.
Post by: Deep Waters on March 29, 2012, 06:39:05 pm
What the others said about telling Omo. It seems like a really good idea. After that, conduct the vitality-lightsaber experiment immediately. A wand may serve better than a staff for concealment and stealth purposes, as well. Learn any other useful spells would allow us to make mana-batteries with little effort beyond startup. Since we are going against one or two other very powerful necromancers,munchkin tacticsskillful use of our wits and engineering is fair. Otherwise, victory over the necromancer opponents and other threats will either be achieved by direct deus-ex-machina or indirect deus-ex-machina through Omo.
Also, find cheap metals in wire form (if available) and check if they conduct mana or vitality. May come in handy later.
I don't know about vitality, but it's been said already that magical crystal is "the only substance that can reliably store and release Mana", as snipped out below:
*snip*A Mana Potion? I don't know of any Elf who can make those.
It isn't that difficult- anyone can learn the necessary spell. Mages tend to make them for themselves, though, since demand is low and their greater Mana reserves allow them to make more potent potables. The tricky part is getting the Crystal for the task.
Crystal?
You know, magical crystal. It is the only substance we know of that can reliably store and release Mana, and is an extremely versatile material with applications in almost all alchemical processes as well as many other branches of spellcraft. We don't have a natural supply of it, instead importing it from Thrimesdur and the Jeweled Coast.*snip*
If you mean "conduct mana or vitality" in the same way as "conduct electricity", I'm not sure what the use of that would be. Conductive metals are used in electrical appliances in order to transfer it from place to place; we can transfer mana from place to place just fine without any extraneous materials. Can you expand on usefulness of this?
And no. No deux ex machinas. No deux ex machinas ever. We must survive through our skill, wits, and (questionable) charm alone! Anything else is cheating. ಠ_ಠ
Post by: Cellmonk on March 29, 2012, 06:43:23 pm
Also, find cheap metals in wire form (if available) and check if they conduct mana or vitality. May come in handy later.
This brings up an interesting question... can vitality and mana in fact be conducted? Are there materials which equalize it between two objects they touch?
So far we've placed vitality on an object, and it immediately effects the whole object, as if the object was a pitcher into which we poured water. Or as if the object had a point-like soul, and we were casting into that through a separate dimension. We should test on all elements and combination of elements. burning wood? wooden vessel of water? stone vessel of blood? wood on stone on earth on flesh? does casting vitality on one cause it to flow to the other, more vitality retentive material?
Post by: Sir E Brum on March 29, 2012, 10:41:06 pm
And make them self-replicate.
Like a von neumann machine.
Made of golems.
This is awesome and we should do it.
Post by: lockman766 on March 30, 2012, 01:19:30 am
Post by: Grek on March 30, 2012, 02:03:51 am
Like a lightsaber.
Post by: lockman766 on March 30, 2012, 03:56:18 am
Vitality cannot be used as a weapon directly, (a fact that, in retrospect, should have been pretty obvious), but that's not what is meant by a "vitality lightsaber". The actual idea there is to try to enchant an item that drains vitality in a radius. Since we know that drain vitality is line of sight, if we put the item in a container with a small hole, we'll end up with an item that projects a "beam" of vitality draining out of it.That's crazy! I like it.
Like a lightsaber.
Post by: Deep Waters on March 30, 2012, 07:27:34 am
Post by: RAM on March 30, 2012, 07:54:52 am
P.S.
Wouldn't the light-saber idea be more like a laser-beam, or death-ray? Maybe the spell would be more efficient with a limited range...
Post by: Grek on March 30, 2012, 03:11:14 pm
Self replicating anythings is a bad bad idea.
Post by: racnor on March 30, 2012, 03:54:54 pm
Post by: Draigh on March 30, 2012, 04:07:07 pm
But I think we need to first experiment on the basics. These plans are assuming a lot of things we do not even know yet.
And a lot of things that are quite unlikely to happen...
We do not know after all what the limits are of our golems.
Nor if we can use the drain of vitality as a weapon as described here.
Or if we can infuse our golem with said spell using ability. After all... it's not a mage but a (dumb) construct.
I also doubt it would be the most effective use of our abilities. Or if we have the power to get it working without draining ourselves in the process.
Anyway, all plans for a possible future. But we need to return to the present.
Namely Omo and our possible hunters.
Can anyone explain me why we need to leave the human city asap, preferably making as little contact as possible, and sleeping in the forest like petty criminals instead of bold elven scholars that are seeking ancient knowledge?
We have done nothing wrong, nor do we have that much to hide. Except that we left the elven lands without permission of the boring elven council that prefers to stay there all cooped up and wait.
If we can create a positive reputation for ourselves out there, that would help in getting certain aspects of our magic accepted by the common people. If we hide and be sneaky, then they might want to mob-lynch us just out of fearful principle.
Post by: Deep Waters on March 30, 2012, 05:08:32 pm
If I metagame a bit, I could also say that it's a terrible idea in general to give every power we discover ourselves to our enemies as well. That would cheapen the whole deal, and in this specific case it would also be quite unrealistic- the Jeweled Coasts aren't exactly famous for their vast troves of knowledge, and if I remember correctly, Nightroar first emerged in a rural village, so it's very unlikely either necromancer could've learned the techniques in a book, and if they do experiment, it'd be very unlikely that they'd conduct the same sort of experiments we would, especially with their apparent lack of scruples involving dead bodies- Nightroar, at the very least, would probably have found it more difficult to purchase sufficient materials for a good golem than to rob a grave.
Of course, we should always be prepared, but I sincerely doubt that Monk would do something like that. Right, Monk? Right? ...Monk? ???
Ninja'd: Draigh hasn't said anything regarding our experimental aspirations most of us haven't thought or said before, but they were definitely things that needed to be said again. Still, speculation doesn't hurt. :P
As for the whole human city thing (town actually; I think 'city' is probably overdoing it from what I remember Monk saying), well, I'd prefer to leave as soon as possible, yes, but only because that means we can fulfill our promise to tell Omo about our powers that much sooner, and our haste to leave probably won't be too suspicious to Omo (we could act nervous about the Council coming after us, or excited about seeing new things, or both- although it certainly doesn't have to be an act to work for us) and maybe help mitigate Omo's anger about not telling him sooner if it looks like we were trying to make it so that we could tell him as soon as possible.
We could easily explain why we didn't tell him before, too- we couldn't tell him in either elf-town or human-town because there was too high a chance of being overheard, and even out in the elf-wilderness one surprise attack Ranger patrol and both of us would probably be dead, since they'd probably assume Omo is our accomplice or an exceptionally well-preserved zombie or something. (We could tell him that we weren't sure how he'd react or not, either, but I'll leave that choice up to everyone else- it is, after all, a rather ugly truth, the idea that we didn't trust him enough to tell him this sooner.) It'll make us look paranoid, but who wouldn't be, in our shoes?
In any case, we should definitely go into town and stay overnight as long as Omo thinks the Council won't come after us, or otherwise will take long enough to mobilize that we can afford it. If he thinks they will come after us and quickly, we should keep moving- though in hindsight he doesn't seem to be very worried about that. (Maybe the Rangers, unsure of what to do about people trying to leave rather than trying to get in, have to ask the Council for orders first? That should take a few days just to get the message there and back, and the Council will probably argue about what to do for a few days as well. Definitely need to ask Omo about what the Rangers will do about us.)
In any case, either way, we should grab some essentials as soon as possible- a more accurate map, like others have said, will be of paramount importance, even if it's only the local areas, and some other navigational equipment may or may not be in order- I'd definitely be more comfortable if we had a compass of some sort. I still think we should get a sling, but I suppose that's optional. We may also want to check and see if there are any more spellbooks in the local shops, though there's no telling if we'll find any more useful than the one we have now. Some historical books might be useful, though I doubt we'll find anything particularly revolutionary in a town like Larathor. More crystals might be good, too, though we shouldn't sell any potions until we get to the big cities- that's where the wealthier clients, who will pay more for our services, will be.
Oh, and definitely some information gathering a la Draigh's suggestions in the quote just above the TL; DR would be in order- I'll add to that list asking people about Nightroar's activities, since figuring out where Nightroar is heading (and avoiding his route like the plague) should definitely be one of our top priorities, and asking people where he's attacked before, among other things, will help with that and finding out Nightroar's current capabilities; y'know, beyond zombiespamming.
And no, no hiding. No one really suggested we hide, at least not in the manner you're implying. At worst, they suggested we stay in the wilderness so that the Rangers won't come find us (if they come after us). Besides, just because we enter a town and leave quickly doesn't mean we're hiding, or acting... er, questionable, in any way. The townspeople won't mob-lynch us for being travelers that want to go on to the next city as soon as possible. Now, if we were to hang around all shady and suspicious-like... possibly. But we won't really have a reason to act that way after we get past (a) the danger of the Council catching us and dragging us inch-by-inch back to Elfland and (b) telling Omo about us being a necromancer. Cautious, we should be. Shady, we should be not.
whoohoo, the story continues!
My vote:
We are not in the wilderness yet (one hour walk from a village or city is NOT wilderness), just out of the elven forests. Get a nice sleep at the inn to celebrate our freedom and dry up from our swim.
Also: gather information at said inn about current state of affairs, local mages, general thoughts about magic in Thrimesdur and get the opinions of these humans about elves. That way we know what to expect for the future.
Finally: Check book for basic illusion spells that can alter ones appearance. If they do not like elves, we might want to work on an illusion and pose as humans.
TL; DR: The other necromancers don't seem like the experimenting type, and it's always a bad idea to give the protagonist's powers to someone else in any case. Draigh is right about the whole experiments debate; we should put that on hold until we get more information about the basics, at least. We should go into Larathor, stay overnight, and collect supplies (a better map, a compass, and possibly more crystals, spellbooks/history books, and/or a sling, in order of importance) in the morning. Gather some information as Draigh said before plus whatever we can find out about Nightroar while shopping and for a little time afterwards, then when we've milked the town dry of gossip, leave so we can finally tell Omo and get the whole thing over with.
EDIT: Heehee... "Draigh's list" ^gigglesnort^
Why yes, I am, in fact, quite easily amused. How could you tell? X3
Post by: lockman766 on March 30, 2012, 05:10:55 pm
Post by: Draigh on March 30, 2012, 05:43:22 pm
EDIT: Heehee... "Draigh's list" ^gigglesnort^I totally miss the point about why that is funny??
Why yes, I am, in fact, quite easily amused. How could you tell? X3
If Omo says the rangers won't follow us, then just make camp as far from the city as feasible, and tell Omo we're a necromancer the next morning. If we procrastinate about it any longer, it'll just make him trust us less. Anyways, He won't get the elves, since they would probably punish him for going AWOL; At worst he'll go and tell the humans what we are, and we'll have a decent head start on an angry mob. Anything better than that will take longer to mobilize.
Also, Go to the city after we tell Omo, but only to get a map and other supplies.
Visit the town for a couple hours, do whatever, and then get out.
We've still got plenty of light left, right?
These remarks are why I am wondering why people prefer sleeping in still wet clothes in the open air under a tree instead of going to an inn as respectable travelers and get a good nights rest and let our clothes dry there.
Post by: Deep Waters on March 30, 2012, 05:46:30 pm
Yeah, I know, lame. But it's pretty damn funny to me. XD
EDIT:
These remarks are why I am wondering why people prefer sleeping in still wet clothes in the open air under a tree instead of going to an inn as respectable travelers and get a good nights rest and let our clothes dry there.
I get where they're coming from, but yeah, I lean towards your opinion more. We aren't the ones being cold and wet, so we're being more logical about things, but honestly, a small part of me kinda feels sorry for Nym. I can't help but imagine her all drenched and shivering and looking at me with these big, sad eyes, just like a stray puppy, and I just want to give her a hug and a blanket and a nice little fire to warm her up and dry her off. (And check her for heartworms. No, wait, took that metaphor a bit far. <<; )
SO I'M A SENTIMENTAL PERSON. I'M FEMALE OKAY, I HAVE THE RIGHT. :-[
Post by: Draigh on March 30, 2012, 06:23:39 pm
We don't have life mages with us that can heal us if we get hypothermia (and possible pneumonia due to a lower resistance).
Post by: GlyphGryph on March 30, 2012, 06:32:46 pm
Quote
These remarks are why I am wondering why people prefer sleeping in still wet clothes in the open air under a tree instead of going to an inn as respectable travelers and get a good nights rest and let our clothes dry there.
Funny that I suggested we NOT DO THAT then, huh? That I specifically said we should find a place where we can clean up, dry off or switch clothes, do some shopping, and THEN leave?
A couple hours should be more than enough for that, and it's much safer - assuming it wouldn't run into dusk, in which case we should stay overnight, but be cautious.
For now, lets just say go to town, and we'll discuss staying or not once we get there. I'm just concerned it will be a small, one inn town, meaning we'll be remarkably easy to find.
Post by: Deep Waters on March 30, 2012, 06:56:59 pm
QuoteThese remarks are why I am wondering why people prefer sleeping in still wet clothes in the open air under a tree instead of going to an inn as respectable travelers and get a good nights rest and let our clothes dry there.
Funny that I suggested we NOT DO THAT then, huh? That I specifically said we should find a place where we can clean up, dry off or switch clothes, do some shopping, and THEN leave?
A couple hours should be more than enough for that, and it's much safer - assuming it wouldn't run into dusk, in which case we should stay overnight, but be cautious.
For now, lets just say go to town, and we'll discuss staying or not once we get there. I'm just concerned it will be a small, one inn town, meaning we'll be remarkably easy to find.
I can't seem to find the exact quote now, but I distinctly remember something about Larathor being a center of trade along the Great River. Plus, from the options given to us regarding the crossing of the Great River, it kinda sounded like it was the only legitimate place to cross the border between Yicelafo and Thrimesdur along the river. While I get the feeling that it's not exactly the largest city in Thrimesdur, I'm pretty sure it'll have a lot more than one inn.
Also, looking at that map again, I'm kinda curious about the Black Swamps. I think we've heard mention of every place but that one (well, 'Here Be Dragons' and those nameless islands over there, too, but those don't count). Did we ever hear anything about it?
Post by: RAM on March 30, 2012, 08:54:13 pm
As for not staying the night, drying off without the aid of an inn isn't really any different to drying off next to a fire in the wilderness. In fact, the wilderness may be preferable, as the sight of two people wandering into town and then 'drying themselves' would be odd. It doesn't appear to be raining, so a roof overhead doesn't much matter. The inn would provide a place to inventory our belongings for potential water damage, hot food and drink, warm, dry bedding, and somewhere to hang our stuff to dry that isn't exposed to elements and wildlife. The only risks that staying the night would incur from the rangers is that they would search the town, which seems highly unlikely and would probably be in conflict with the humans, or that they would surround the town and wait for us, which would seem like an overly large expenditure of resources. The inn is likely to operate on a nightly schedule, and can likely charge a relatively high rate for young couples who don't want the room for a whole night... Omo would probably appreciate at least seeing the library, and we don't really want to remain near the elven border, so leaving early in the morning should be easy enough...
Post by: GlyphGryph on March 31, 2012, 01:11:45 am
Post by: Koronii on April 01, 2012, 01:12:41 am
Also, we should only tell Omo when we are out of the city, I don't fancy the prospect of him freaking out and bringing a lynch mob down on us.
Post by: racnor on April 01, 2012, 06:50:50 am
Post by: Draigh on April 01, 2012, 07:24:18 am
Nightroar is a roaring idiot, raising dead people and more or less drowning in his own importance. A big egotripper waiting to blow up because he takes on too much.
And then there is Nym. ;)
Careful, experimental, looking for the light side in the dark arts. And as of yet totally unknown, which is good.
We can prepare for them, they cannot prepare for us. And I doubt Nightroar would be doing much preparations anyway. But the pirate king will prepare as soon as he hears something about us. Wether his preparations are adequate, are a totally different story. After all, we are already focussing on out-of-the-box thinking and exploring other aspects of our magic. For all they know, we are not necromancers but a new type of mage altogether. It might also be beneficial if we could indeed eventually profile ourselves as mages, not as necromancers.
Post by: racnor on April 01, 2012, 08:05:49 am
Post by: killerhellhound on April 01, 2012, 08:31:33 am
other necromancers could under extermate (damm i need that spellcheck thing) and raseing a bunch of zombies behind him would be epic
Post by: Deep Waters on April 01, 2012, 11:13:31 am
I don't really like the idea of lying outright, since it's unlikely that golems are really a new thing. We've essentially reinvented the wheel here. It'd take just one mage researching the necromancers of old in order to figure out how to kill the new ones stumbling over a mention of those necromancers using animated objects to tear the ruse apart. I suggest that we just don't say anything about it. If someone asks, tell them we don't know what kind of magic it is- that should be much harder to prove false. Plus, I just don't like the idea of lying in general. We've got to spread some falsehoods just to survive, but I'd rather we kept them it to a minimum.
As for on-topic stuff, is everyone agreed that we should stay overnight in Larathor and leave in the morning?
Post by: Lord Allagon on April 01, 2012, 01:44:39 pm
As for on-topic stuff, is everyone agreed that we should stay overnight in Larathor and leave in the morning?+1
Post by: lockman766 on April 01, 2012, 04:47:51 pm
+2As for on-topic stuff, is everyone agreed that we should stay overnight in Larathor and leave in the morning?+1
Post by: Felius on April 01, 2012, 04:57:58 pm
As for on-topic stuff, is everyone agreed that we should stay overnight in Larathor and leave in the morning?As long the Rangers aren't coming for us.
Post by: lockman766 on April 01, 2012, 05:06:58 pm
As long the Rangers aren't coming for us.I think we have least a day before they do, if they do at all.
Post by: Draigh on April 01, 2012, 05:10:56 pm
Every good story has such a scene in it. (http://youtu.be/-LEnas45Fn8)
Post by: fergus on April 01, 2012, 05:56:07 pm
+3+2As for on-topic stuff, is everyone agreed that we should stay overnight in Larathor and leave in the morning?+1
Post by: killerhellhound on April 01, 2012, 06:10:41 pm
Post by: Phantom of The Library on April 01, 2012, 06:32:38 pm
And it will come eventually.
Monk is not Darkerdark.
Post by: Lord Allagon on April 02, 2012, 10:23:01 pm
Patience young grasshopper, the update will come when it will come.I hope so.
And it will come eventually.
Monk is not Darkerdark.
Post by: killerhellhound on April 03, 2012, 12:29:12 am
as do I but I have no idea who that is ???Patience young grasshopper, the update will come when it will come.I hope so.
And it will come eventually.
Monk is not Darkerdark.
Post by: GlyphGryph on April 03, 2012, 06:41:22 am
Amazing artist, simply amazing, great writer, but with an update schedule approaching "once every who gives a fuck". Still the most popular forum games story last I checked, won the last contest hands down, despite updates being about as frequent as DF releases.
Post by: killerhellhound on April 03, 2012, 05:32:39 pm
Post by: lockman766 on April 04, 2012, 01:53:52 am
Post by: killerhellhound on April 04, 2012, 05:24:48 pm
Post by: bombzero on April 04, 2012, 06:19:26 pm
despite updates being about as frequent as DF releases.nice little joke, though seriously i understand when monk has time and all but really, the reason i don't participate in forum games is that consistent postings are about as reliable as valve's release date predictions...
(not that big of a deal, this just popped into my head and i had to write it.)
Post by: killerhellhound on April 05, 2012, 08:45:51 am
Post by: Deep Waters on April 05, 2012, 10:54:23 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 05, 2012, 12:02:44 pm
Post by: killerhellhound on April 05, 2012, 04:11:22 pm
Post by: RAM on April 06, 2012, 12:17:01 am
As for content, well, lets consider the research that we want to do when we reach the libraries. I would suggest concentrating on any works written by necromancers, any observations of necromantic practice, a brief review of recent works concerning necromancers, documentation of the relationship between dwarves and golgothans, records of recent dealings with dwarves, and material concerning the nature of the golgothans.
P.S.
Previous turn (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=96692.msg3133222#msg3133222).
Post by: Deep Waters on April 06, 2012, 12:02:18 pm
Specifically, we should read accounts of the first necromantic war with the golgothans, which will probably contain the largest amount of the most accurate observations of necromancy by practiced necromancers short of an actual manual on it; which, now that I think about it, were probably all destroyed in the wake of the aforementioned war. Which means that the only place we're likely to find a book that's actually meant to teach necromancy is with the dwarves.
Post by: RAM on April 06, 2012, 06:56:40 pm
Post by: monk12 on April 06, 2012, 10:16:10 pm
whoohoo, the story continues!
My vote:
We are not in the wilderness yet (one hour walk from a village or city is NOT wilderness), just out of the elven forests. Get a nice sleep at the inn to celebrate our freedom and dry up from our swim.
Also: gather information at said inn about current state of affairs, local mages, general thoughts about magic in Thrimesdur and get the opinions of these humans about elves. That way we know what to expect for the future.
Finally: Check book for basic illusion spells that can alter ones appearance. If they do not like elves, we might want to work on an illusion and pose as humans.
Well, what do you say- should we camp here and head into Larathor tomorrow, or press on and sleep in an inn tonight?
I don't know- how likely do you think it is that the Rangers might follow us? Wouldn't Larathor be the first place they check?
I'm not sure, but I don't think there will be much pursuit. Certainly not until tomorrow morning, when the ferryman is awake to bring them over- I doubt they'll try to swim after us.
Alright, we'll spend the night in an inn, and leave first thing in the morning.
If you say so.
You briefly check your supplies, and find that everything survived warm and dry. Pulling on a dry shirt, you gather your things and follow Omo deeper inland, into the tall grass. Once out of sight of the river, Omo turns downriver, carefully guiding you around scrub bushes and animal burrows. You catch yourself eying the sky uneasily- it's so big out from under the trees, and you feel horribly exposed.
Omo seems unbothered, frequently gazing up in delight as more and more stars emerge. Despite your nervousness, you have to admit that the gaping sky is rather spectacular. Stargazing is a rare treat in Yicelafo- you're accustomed to the narrow slices you can catch along the Great River or at the larger ponds. The pageantry of the cosmos is much grander when seen in its fullness, and while you recognize many of the constellations there are many more celestial bodies you've never had occasion to see, let alone catalog. They are unfamiliar, strange, alien, and to a degree, disconcerting- but they are quite beautiful for all that.
It isn't long at all before Larathor comes into sight, a vision that in some ways is as strange and exciting as the night sky. The town is surrounded by a high wooden wall, and you wonder where exactly they got all the lumber- you don't know of any lumber camps on the Elven side of the river. There are tall wooden towers dotted with torches at each corner of Larathor, as well as at the gatehouse. Pennons and flags snap in the breeze, dark shadows in the torchlight. The light of unnumbered candles, lanterns and torches within the walls gives the town an internal glow unlike anything in Yicelafo.
As you approach the town walls, you see a pair of guards standing next to the open gates. One of them stops you before you enter.
Good evening, travelers. What's your business?
We're just on our way through- we'll stop for the night and be off in the morning.
And where are you bound?
East.
Burn me if that isn't peculiar- a warrior and a woman coming from the North in the middle of the night, bound for the East and the territory of Nightroar the Necromancer?
Hey, the sun only set like an hour ago.
Blasted suspicious if you ask- ...wait a minute, you're Elves!
What, did you think we were Necromancers?
Sorry! Sorry, I didn't know- you have to admit, these are troubling times for mysterious strangers to arrive in the darkness. You Elves hardly ever leave your blasted forest- er, no offense intended. Are you here on official business? To help us against the Necromancer, I mean?
Well-
Why else would a pair of Elves be heading East?
Of course, stupid question. Burn me if it isn't good to hear good news for a change- I don't mind saying we need all the help we can get, with the attacks and all.
Attacks?
Nightroar has been sending raiding parties West to terrorize the towns and farmlands. They don't seem very coordinated, but burn me if there aren't too many for the Imperial Chargers to handle. They can't be everywhere at once.
Troubling news, but if you don't mind, we're rather tired and have a long trip ahead of us. Do you know of a good inn we could stay at?
Certainly, don't let me keep you. Ah, if you're looking for an inn I would recommend the Jolly Badger- a quality place, and the innkeeper is honest. It's on the main road heading south, can't miss it. Fare well on your travels!
You walk into Larathor, leaving the guards to gossip behind you. Once you are out of earshot, you pull your cloak up over your ears and give Omo a nudge.
Maybe it would be better if we weren't obviously Elves.
Eh? Why shouldn't we be what we are?
Because we stick out like a sore thumb, and we don't know if we're being pursued.
Oh. Fair enough.
The streets of Larathor are nearly deserted at this hour- the main roads are well illuminated with street lamps, but the side streets are much darker, with only the occasional lantern casting a pool of light. The buildings here are tall, stone affairs, and to you the heavy structures seem to loom over the flagstone street- you've never been someplace without any plants! Omo, as expected, is eager to drink it all in, peering down every side street, inspecting the detail of the iron lamp posts, gazing in delight at the taller structures, some four or five stories tall!
Soon enough, you arrive at the inn the guard mentioned- the sign over the door depicts a dancing badger with a tankard of ale in each paw. Inside, you find the common room packed with patrons enjoying their drinks and the music of the performer in the corner. You sidle your way over to the bar, where the innkeeper is dispensing drinks. Explaining that you want a room, the smiling fat man waves a serving maid over to escort you upstairs in exchange for two silver pieces. The maid leads you to a small, well appointed room, and after you assure her that you need nothing else she returns downstairs. Omo looks towards the stairs and the sounds of laughter and singing, temptation clear on his face.
Y'know, I think I'll just spend an hour or two downstairs. Get a feel for the lay of the land, maybe a drink.
Omo, not two hours ago you were swimming across a cold river fleeing Elven Rangers. We'll be leaving at first light, and you want to hit a tavern.
Not just a drink, I want to do some asking around, maybe get some info on what Nightroar has been up to.
Fine, I'm not your mother. I get the bed though!
Like I was gonna get that anyway. See you in the morning!
Dropping your stuff, you settle down for the night. It's been a long day of hiking, swimming, and more hiking, and the bed is soft and warm- you fall almost immediately asleep. Early the next morning, you awake to the noise of Omo snoring on the floor. You lie back, taking in the unfamiliar sounds of city activity outside- the rumble of carts, the ring of horseshoes on stone, the muffled footsteps of somebody upstairs. You are tempted to sleep in, but don't want to waste any time.
First things first- you pull out Prestidigitation for the Beginning Practitioner and start flipping through it on the search for Illusion spells. While you find a couple minor auditory illusions, you are unable to find any optical illusions. Skimming the section on other Magics shows that Illusions of various kinds are widely used by Chaos Shaman, as well as Water Mystics and Air Seers. Stymied, you stow away your book and then beat Omo with your pillow.
Wake up! It's morning!
Agh! Have a heart, Nym!
Come on, we've got time for breakfast and then we need to hit the road. I won't feel safe until we're out of Larathor.
That's funny, I won't feel safe after we leave. The guard wasn't exaggerating about the undead attacks, if the common room is to be believed. The road south is choked with refugees. The Imperial Chargers are swamped, between trying to maintain order on the road while also responding to each zombie attack. The raids don't seem to be doing much damage themselves, but the reaction to the raids is crippling the Empire.
Is the Necromancer leading these attacks?
Life above, no. That's why the attacks are so ineffective- the undead are pretty stupid and uncoordinated. Nobody knows where Nightroar himself is, since none of the scouts sent to investigate have returned. We do know there is a hell of a lot of zombies a few days march east.
Can we go around?
I don't know which way we should go, I don't have a map. We should probably buy one, and maybe some other things. And, y'know, as long as we're out and about we could take in some of the sights...
Omo, we need to leave as soon as possible. If the Rangers follow after us-
It's hardly likely they'd find us if we're just wandering through the city! Come on, our first day in a human town and you want to leave without seeing more than an inn? I was asking what there is to see last night, and the locals swear the temple here is one of the most beautiful on the Great River, and apparently there's a prominent actor at the theater in town, and you can get a great view of everything from the towers in the keep, and-
You lean back, rubbing your temples as Omo babbles on. On the one hand, you don't want to spend any more time in town than you have to- you don't want any potential pursuit catching up with you, you want to come clean with Omo as soon as possible, and it feels like ages since you've done any solid experimenting. On the other hand, it sounds like Omo is dying for some sightseeing and you're sure he's going to be unhappy if you leave straightaway, and it wouldn't hurt to get information from somebody other than a tavern full of drunks. How should you handle this?
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: Deep Waters on April 06, 2012, 10:37:10 pm
Alright, got it. Tell Omo we'll stay for the day, but that we're leaving at nightfall. Enough time to see a few sights, but not enough to significantly endanger ourselves. Also, hint to him that we want to tell him something, something extremely important, but that we can't take the risk of being overheard. Maybe that will make him more eager to leave.
Post by: Cellmonk on April 06, 2012, 10:59:40 pm
Ooo, more conflict. What a surprise. :P Hmmm, what to do, what to do...
Alright, got it. Tell Omo we'll stay for the day, but that we're leaving at nightfall. Enough time to see a few sights, but not enough to significantly endanger ourselves. Also, hint to him that we want to tell him something, something extremely important, but that we can't take the risk of being overheard. Maybe that will make him more eager to leave.
+1
Post by: Descan on April 06, 2012, 11:27:21 pm
Post by: Felius on April 06, 2012, 11:41:01 pm
Indeed this sounds for the best. But ask him if he really believe we are not getting the rangers after us, cause if we are, we should hit the road now.Ooo, more conflict. What a surprise. :P Hmmm, what to do, what to do...
Alright, got it. Tell Omo we'll stay for the day, but that we're leaving at nightfall. Enough time to see a few sights, but not enough to significantly endanger ourselves. Also, hint to him that we want to tell him something, something extremely important, but that we can't take the risk of being overheard. Maybe that will make him more eager to leave.
+1
Post by: LordBucket on April 06, 2012, 11:59:23 pm
How should you handle this?
Staying in town for a few days has several benefits:
* Sooner or later there will be a zombie attack, which will give Nym an excellent opportunity to test out some very important experiments on "somebody else's" zombies, all with the relative safety of a city wall and guards to hide behind.
* It would give us a chance to learn a few more spells from the spellbook
* Good opportunity to overhear rumors, and maybe get an idea whether the rangers are in pursuit
* It will make Omo happy
However, I think the chance of being caught is not worth it. It seems unlikely that the rangers would forcefully apprehend us without explicit orders from home to do so, and it might take time for the report to get back and orders to be returned...but if we stay, they'll probably know exactly where we are within an hour of the ferry. If I were the ranger captain, I'd be on the first ferry in the morning with half a dozen others. The gate guard will definitely remember us and will tell the rangers exactly which Inn we're staying at. Once they find us it might be difficult to lose them again. Omo is a relatively young and inexperienced ranger. If a senior ranger with hundreds of years of tracking and stealth experience picks up our trail, we won't even necessarily know.
Therefore I propose the following:
Check out of the Inn, and make a point of "casually mentioning" in great detail that we're "headed east." Then head to the market and buy a set of clothes and hats to hide that we're elves. Change into them. Then go to a totally different clothes seller and buy yet a different set of hats and clothes. Throw away the first set. Then look for a secluded place to change back into our original elven clothes, and leave the town through a different gate than we originally came in. Chat with the guards and again "casually" mention that we're headed east. When the rangers show up to investigate, both sets of gate guards and the Innkeeper should all agree that two elves came into town, then left heading east.
Walk out of sight, then split up. Change into the second set of clothes, and walk back to town separately, at least half an hour apart so that the guards won't notice a "man and a woman leaving" followed by a "man and a woman arriving."
Plan to stay in Larathor for a couple days consolidating knowledge and power. We want be here for the next zombie attack.
In regards to Omo:
Simply tell him that we have something he needs to know. And that you promised yourself you would tell him once you were both safely away from home. But we're not safely away yet. You don't want to keep a secret from him, but you just don't feel safe talking about it yet. We will tell him. But not yet. Ask him to please not worry about it. He can go ahead and have fun. He wants to stay in town for a few days, we'll do that for him. What we have to say can wait. Just explain that "I need you to know that if some strange twist of fate reveals the secret before I get the chance to tell you...know that I was not going to keep it a secret. I will tell you. Just please be patient with me."
He'll probably assume we're going to admit that we're in love with him. Don't encourage it, neither confirm nor deny...but allow it. It's a safe thing for him to incorrectly assume until we have a suitable chance to tell him.
By the way, why did we never receive xp for learning Brew Mana Potion and Waterproof? Also, I'd think that having spent a couple hours a day focusing mana into crystals for potions for 5 days would have been worth some xp too.
Post by: LordBucket on April 07, 2012, 12:07:32 am
we'll stay for the day, but that we're leaving at nightfall. Enough time to see
a few sights, but not enough to significantly endanger ourselves
Problem with overtly staying is that the rangers will find us. And once they do we'll have no way of knowing if they're still with us. Even weeks from now they might still be stealthily on our trail. We don't want to have a 500 year old ranger hiding in the bushes when we tell Omo
Post by: Descan on April 07, 2012, 12:10:10 am
[everything]Yes.
Post by: Deep Waters on April 07, 2012, 12:10:29 am
We never earned any xp for those spells because we only earn experience from doing necromancer things, as stated in the author's note in Chap 1, Part 1.
Quote
You level up by gaining XP- you gain XP by casting Necromancy spells.
I believe Monk did say there were other ways, but I can't quite remember- I think it was combat or something. I could probably dig it up, but not right now.
EDIT: Wait a minute. You said that it would be a benefit to experiment with necromancy within the "relative safety of a city wall and guards to hide behind"? Yeah, until the guards turn around and hack us to death! You might say that it's possible we could do it stealthily, without them realizing it was us- but that's putting limitations on what experiments we could conduct without them noticing, and is far too risky for something we could always do later, when we have more power and are able to protect ourselves from the few measly zombies we'd need for our experiments.
Post by: LordBucket on April 07, 2012, 12:48:43 am
I'd honestly prefer to leave as quickly as possible.
However, I also don't feel that your idea will most likely kill us all, so I wouldn't vote against it, if it came to that.
Well, I'd rather leave immediately than stay in plain sight like the first few people suggested. Having rangers on our tail is bad. But I think if we're careful we can arrange to stay, benefit from staying and make Omo happy in the process.
We can also benefit from deliberately create a false trail in case the rangers do attempt to pursue us. They saw us going to great effort to sneak past and escape from them. It would be counterintuitive for them to expect us to try so hard to escape then immediately stop here. Whereas if we simply head off into the woods we create a trail for them to track, and any animal that sees us will be able to tell them where we've been.
Quote
Wait a minute. You said that it would be a benefit to experiment with necromancy
within the "relative safety of a city wall and guards to hide behind"?
In the event of a random zombie attack on the city, yes. Imagine a dozen zombies attack, and the town is called to arms. So we head to the city wall, tell the guards we're a mage and start casting. We can do command zombie, we can try to "heal" zombies by moving vitality from one to another, we can experiment with vitality siphoning and vitailty <--> mana conversion, we can try direct damage spells...there are a lot of things we can experiment with that don't involve animating anything. Remember, we suspect there's an entire third school of necromancy that we're still only speculating on. Personally I think it will turn out to be a "siphon" school. And if we succesfully use drain-type attack spells on zombies...people are just going to see that we cast spells and zombies died. Nobody is going to see that and conclude we're doing anything bad.
Now compare that to heading out alone to where the zombies are. How are we going to sleep? Omo is a ranger, but Nym isn't. Shall we take turns on watch every night? Shall we set up perimeter traps around our camp and hope zombies trip them? Consider what Omo said:
"I won't feel safe after we leave. The guard wasn't exaggerating about the undead attacks, if the common room is to be believed. The road south is choked with refugees. The Imperial Chargers are swamped, between trying to maintain order on the road while also responding to each zombie attack.
Which proposition is safer?
Proposed experiments
* Attempt to "heal" a zombie by moving vitality around
* Attempt to "heal" self and others by moving vitality around between self/others/zombies/etc
* Attempt to directly convert vitality to mana and mana to vitality. Make the attempt both while the vitality/mana is "inside" a body, as well as "in between." See if vitality and mana can be stored in a pool.
* Experiment with how long vitality/mana can be kept "stored." Can we siphon mana from ourselves, hold it in a pool, then go to sleep and have it still available in the morning?
* Attempt a direct damage spell
* Attempy to "mana steal" from someone
* Experiment with storing mana in objects besides potions. Can we make a crystal amulet that we store mana in, to siphon to/from as needed? Can we increase the storage capacity of an object via enchanting, rather than simply adding bigger and more crystals?
* Can we store mana in metal? Can we store mana in zombies and golems?
* Experiement with the creation of magic items. We know that magic items exist. Can we imbue an object with magic besides simply storing points of vitality/mana?
* Attempt to modify living un-zombified tissue in a manner similar to alter golem. Can we regenerate limbs? Can we disable an opponent by merging all their fingers into one single blob? Can we add an extra set of functional eyes or wings to a living, unzombified creature?
* Experiment with light-less vision. NOTE that we were able to see through the eyes of a fish even when it was inside our stomach. It appears that zombies can see in the dark. We should be able to make use of that for ourselves. It should be fairly trivial to create a "dark vision" spell for ourselves that uses no zombies at all.
* EDIT (added from below to consolidate): "Ward undead" spell. Create an area where undead not under our control will avoid.
Post by: racnor on April 07, 2012, 01:11:57 am
On a different subject, when we do get free rein to use our magic on undead, try shoving or crushing vitality instead of pulling it.
Post by: Grek on April 07, 2012, 02:25:09 am
1. We promised ourselves that we would tell Omo our secret after breakfast today. We're not going back on that promise to ourselves, so tell Omo that we're having breakfast and that you need to tell him something important up in the room after breakfast and THEN, once that's out of the way, we can go see the sights. I know, it's a risk that we'll be overheard, but it's important that we know that Omo trusts us and we can trust him before anything else happens.
2. Many of the specific experiments LordBucket proposed are either useless or bad ideas:
-Trying to transfer vitality from a zombie to a person, or from zombie to zombie for the first time mid-battle, while being watched is just asking for something unexpected to happen and screw us over.
-The same applies to the "store mana in a zombie", "try to alter a zombie" and "try to grant them night-vision" ideas.
-We've already attempted to cast Steal Mana; it didn't work, but we got the feeling that it was possible, just not with the same method as Steal Vitality uses.
-Trying to fuse flesh together or extra sprout eyeballs is A] disgusting and B] horrifyingly reckless. Let's not do that unless we find a much better reason.
-In general, we shouldn't be making zombies in town until we've come out openly as a necromancer. I personally suggest sticking to enchanting objects and working out the kinks of golem-crafting for now, experiment-wise, with a focus on getting golems to actually move about.
3. We don't have the money for two new sets of clothing, especially just to throw one pair away. I like the idea of setting a false trail for the rangers to follow in principle, but that specific method of doing so is non-viable. My plan is as follows:
Inform the inkeeper of the Jolly Badger that you'll be departing for the east after lunch and thank him for his hospitality. Then go sightseeing for a while. Once you've seen everything, (let's check out the Keep first, supposedly we can see everything up there?) go to the market and see if you can trade your spare elven clothes for some concealing human clothes. Mention to the merchant that you don't want to attract attention while you're travelling east, lest Nightroar know we're coming. Head back to the Inn for lunch and pack up all your stuff. Leave through the east gate, change into your human-looking clothes and come back through some other gate, preferably the north or south if there is one. Finally, go check in at some other Inn, preferably one on the other end of town, and rent a room there for the rest of your stay.
Post by: Draigh on April 07, 2012, 02:58:36 am
First things first- you pull out Prestidigitation for the Beginning Practitioner and start flipping through it on the search for Illusion spells. While you find a couple minor auditory illusions, you are unable to find any optical illusions. Skimming the section on other Magics shows that Illusions of various kinds are widely used by Chaos Shaman, as well as Water Mystics and Air Seers. Stymied, you stow away your book and then beat Omo with your pillow.Different types of mages are able to do the same kind of magic. Illusions can be done by Chaos, Water AND Air mages. That means that golems also might be possible with different kinds of magic (Chaos and Earth comes to mind). At least something we might want to research: What are the types of effects that are possible with each type of magic?
Also, there was a mention about the minor auditory illusions. It might not be as useful as the optical illusions for hiding our identity. But I still want Nym to learn it. It might be handy in another situation and we need all the tricks up our sleeves we can get. Some minor telekinetic spells and/or light spells would also be nice. Cantrips at best, but useful nonetheless.
1. We promised ourselves that we would tell Omo our secret after breakfast today. We're not going back on that promise to ourselves, so tell Omo that we're having breakfast and that you need to tell him something important up in the room after breakfast and THEN, once that's out of the way, we can go see the sights. I know, it's a risk that we'll be overheard, but it's important that we know that Omo trusts us and we can trust him before anything else happens.Our initial promise to ourselves was to tell him when we were alone outside of the city. No specific clause of time was added to this promise. Only later that people started pushing to hasten it more and more. It will already be a difficult and dangerous telling, especially if he asks for some form of proof. Do we really want to do that in the middle of a city??
Keep it in, a few more days will not kill us nor him. A few more days is barely anything in the life of an elf. We have a bond of trust with him anyway, we are childhood friends. He might be angry for not telling sooner, but he will understand our fears and hesitations when we tell him that we did not want to tell him this during the elf festival or in a busy foreign city out of fear someone overhears us. After all, he has been consistently shown as a friendly and caring guy.
And I agree with telling Omo there is something we really want to tell him, but we would prefer doing that outside of the city. He does not need to worry, but we just find it fair for him to know it. As I said, it can wait a couple days until we do leave the city. We are on a mission here, he is our friend, guardian and wilderness guide. We will manage just fine.
As for our short term plans, I agree with LordBucket. Although just getting some different concealing clothes, leaving the city as elves and returning as humans would probably already be enough, without the whole disguising inbetween for the second set of clothing. We also need to conserve our money, we are not that wealthy, needing the money to buy expensive new crystals. We might want to use something of a headband we can wear. Hats should be removed when indoors out of politeness, thus defeating the purpose of hiding our ears.
I would also suggest not telling people we are (full) mages. We could just say that we are elves, with some minor talent in magic. At least for now while we are still learning our powers. I would still propose to profile ourselves as being a scholar with his guard/guide/friend. Our main skill is knowledge, not power. Otherwise people might expect us to smite those undead with our epic elven Light magics or something (common folk of course do not know what is or is not possible, and pretty much unaware of what elves precisely can do with their magic; is my guess). We do not want to disappoint a fearful mob of humans that will grasp every last straw of hope they can find. Better to make sure they do not get the idea that we are a valid option of salvation.
Also: no obvious necromantic experiments within the city. Darkvision is an option, anything obviously related to dead things is not. And anything that might hurt living things is not an option either. But we do need to discharge some of our magic before we re-animate the dead cow that is supposed to be on the evening menu of the inn.We do not want to draw too much attention to ourselves.
My suggestions for experimentation in the city:
- Experiment with light-less vision
- For Animate Object, see if you can make an object levitate, or move to your will. Maybe this could develop into telekinesis
- Astral Projection, temporarily leaving your body and then get back in. Later experiment might involve exploring a bit around you and checking how long you are away, if you can influence things around you while being incorporeal and stuff like that.
Experiments for a later time:
- Cause Fear
- Blindness / Deafness (let one of the senses die, we are most likely not able to heal this though...)
- See how someone or something died
- Speak with the dead (spirits)
- Shadow shaping (might get haywire, not to be tried in populated areas)
-- Animate Shadows
Post by: MikaTheCrazy on April 07, 2012, 03:02:51 am
Post by: LordBucket on April 07, 2012, 04:03:43 am
1. We promised ourselves that we would tell Omo our secret after breakfast today.
Chapter I, Part 26 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=96692.msg3133222#msg3133222):
"You are about to agree as you shrug your tunic back on, but then you remember your promise to yourself. "First night in the wilderness, away from settlement and elves- that's when I'll tell Omo I'm a Necromancer."
Quote
2. Many of the specific experiments LordBucket proposed are either useless or bad ideas:
That was a proposed experiments list. Not a "things to do while we're being watched" list.
Even so, half the experiments on that list would be safe to do while being watched. Storing mana in metal rather than crystal, vitality <--> mana conversion, the dark vision spell, enchanting, etc. None of these involve zombies or golems at all, and we could safely do them in our room at the Inn if we wanted.
As to safety, I understand that being caught performing necromancy poses a certain risk. But getting killed poses risk too. There are so many undead roaming the countryside, that the local military is having difficulty:
From Chapter II, part 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=96692.msg3170373#msg3170373):
"The road south is choked with refugees. The Imperial Chargers are swamped, between trying to maintain order on the road while also responding to each zombie attack."
"...the undead are pretty stupid and uncoordinated. Nobody knows where Nightroar himself is, since none of the scouts sent to investigate have returned. We do know there is a hell of a lot of zombies a few days march east."
So, uncoordinated attacks...random zombies...they're not destroying towns, but nevetheless there are a lot of zombies running around. So I simply ask: do we really want to wade out into the middle of that? How eager are we to rush out into the forest and go to sleep just the two of us knowing full well that we might wake up to half a dozen zombies in our camp?
I would rather we take time to build up our strength before we charge headfirst into that.
Quote
3. We don't have the money for two new sets of clothing
I think we do.
Chapter II, part 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=96692.msg3170373#msg3170373):
"Inventory- Belt Pouch (84.2 Silver Pieces),"
Monk, can we get a price quote on human commoner clothes?
Related, Inn stay for 2 was only 2 silver, and trail food for a day was half a silver. We can lay low here for a few days without putting any strain on out finances.
Quote
Then go sightseeing for a while. Once you've seen everything, (let's check out the Keep first, supposedly we can see everything up there?
That would pretty much guarantee that we'll be caught. Two elves walking around in plain sight will stand out very obviously.
Ask Omo: even if we leave immediately, if the rangers decide to try to catch us, how easy will it be for them to pick up our trail, ask animals if they've seen us, etc?
Ask Omo: if they do find us, how easy will it be for an experienced senior ranger to follow us without us realizing we're being followed?
New proposed experiment
* "Ward undead" spell. Create an area where undead not under our control will avoid.
Post by: Draigh on April 07, 2012, 04:12:29 am
That would be a nice one! Except that it would be hard to test... Careful with that one... But I like the idea!!
I agree, first night in the wilderness, away from settlement and elves does not equal right after breakfast in the inn. ;)1. We promised ourselves that we would tell Omo our secret after breakfast today.Chapter I, Part 26 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=96692.msg3133222#msg3133222):
"You are about to agree as you shrug your tunic back on, but then you remember your promise to yourself. "First night in the wilderness, away from settlement and elves- that's when I'll tell Omo I'm a Necromancer."
It also does not, in any way, indicate that we are in a hurry to tell him. So if we are going to stay here for a couple of days preparing before travelling in hostile and dangerous lands... telling Omo has to wait just that bit longer.
PS. It might be a good idea to tell Omo that due to the fact that Nym knows about Death Magic, he would most likely be MORE safe with Nym and not less safe. After all, Nym has a stronger understanding of necromancy than most others, simply for being able to do so herself.
Post by: RAM on April 07, 2012, 04:58:59 am
Ooo, more conflict. What a surprise. :P Hmmm, what to do, what to do...
Alright, got it. Tell Omo we'll stay for the day, but that we're leaving at nightfall. Enough time to see a few sights, but not enough to significantly endanger ourselves. Also, hint to him that we want to tell him something, something extremely important, but that we can't take the risk of being overheard. Maybe that will make him more eager to leave.
+1
Post by: Grek on April 07, 2012, 05:06:21 am
1. We keep putting it off and putting it off, only telling him one we're out of Thrimesdur entirely. As a result, we've been completely unable to get any real experimentation done, for fear of Omo finding out about us and turning us in to the humans/the rangers. As a result, we've gotten no progress with our powers and aren't strong enough to defeat Nightroar. We and Omo are both killed, taken captive or worse. Alternatively, we get ourselves killed or unlease something horrible because we're forced to try something reckless out of desperation and our powers get out of hand.
2. We don't tell Omo, but he finds out anyways, either due to an accidental surge of necromancy or because he catches us experimenting. He takes it badly and either reports us or, worse yet, tries to kill us on the spot. We've been lucky so far that we've not been caught, and that's with practicing alone in the woods. We can't hide this from Omo for long if we want to keep practicing. Omo is almost certain to take it better if we tell him than if he finds out by accident.
3. We're attacked by the undead and are forced to use our powers in order to survive. Omo, or anyone else present for that matter, blames us for causing the attack, either thinking that we raised the undead ourselves or that Nightroar sent the undead to kill us for being competetion. Alternatively, we're put in a situation where the only way to save someone from the undead is to use our powers but we can't because someone is watching and we have to let them die without helping, even if it's Omo that dies.
4. Omo doesn't figure out that we're a necromancer, but does notice something off about our behaviors. He starts to think that we're hiding something from him and draws some false conclusion about us, that we're planning to betray him, that we're guilty of a crime or something else. Even if we do eventually tell him, he's already suspicious about us and assumes the worst when we reveal that we're a necromancer and either attacks us right away or reports us in secret as soon as he gets a chance.
5. Nothing else goes wrong, but the stress from keeping these secrets hidden from absolutely everyone, without being able to trust even a single other soul about our problems or to be truly honest and open with our only remaining friend leaves us alienated and distant from others. As we travel east and face the horrors of war and the evils of necromancy gone awry for the first time, we slowly lose our sense of right and wrong without anyone to guide us back onto the right track. Eventually we start justifying things we'd never have even considered before, turning more and more evil until we become exactly the sort of monster that we're trying to defeat. We're left to face Nightroar alone and are either defeated by him or are killed soon after by the rest of the world while we're weak from the battle.
I could go on and on. But I won't; you all get the picture. If the Inn isn't safe enough, find somewhere else. Tell him while alone in the keep tower. Go outside the city for a few hours and tell him while we're alone. It doesn't matter where or how we do it, but we need to find a way to tell Omo that we're a necromancer.
Post by: Draigh on April 07, 2012, 05:20:33 am
The first night in the wilderness away from elves and outside of a settlement was last night and we still haven't told him. If we wanted to keep to that promise, we should have told him before going into town. We can't keep hiding this from Omo, and not just because it's wrong to do so.
One hour walk from a major city is not a wilderness. We have not yet been in a location that qualifies for our promise, in my opinion.
Also, nobody is wanting to hold it from Omo. We just want to tell him at a time and place where it's relatively safe to do so. In the middle of a paranoid city, with rumors of evil necromancers all around us putting people on edge, does not seem to be a safe place for such a discussion.
Secondly, even though the forumgame has been weeks and weeks.... the storytime has been only 19 days from the beginning until now. The doom-scenarios on our moral degration are a bit far fetched in my opinion considering the time it would take. Also, we have more tools than just our necromantic powers. And we should rely on those tools. We are going to lose a direct power-confrontation with the other necromancers anyway. Even if only because they have an army, and we do not.
Nym and Omo need to trust eachother and themselves, their own wisdom, intelligence and creativity. Yes, experimentation and learning our Art is important, but we also need to develop in other areas to be able to be succesful.
In my opinion there is no such thing as "wasted time" as each experience forms us into something more than what we were before. Or at least has the potential for that, if we take the chances offered to us.
Post by: Grek on April 07, 2012, 05:39:20 am
We need to train and to learn more about necromancy. We need to become stronger, strong enough to defeat the other necromancers and to save the world from evil. We need to make the best use of every oppurtunity that presents itself, especially those that show up just as we're starting on our journey. And we can't do that if we're worried about Omo getting suspicious. What happens if we get a chance to go to the library, but we can't read anything truely useful because we're worried that Omo will get suspicious about us showing up with a pile of books on necromancy? What happens when we spot an artifact that we'd need to pool our money to get, but can't tell Omo why it's so important to us? If we don't tell him, we're going to miss out on lots of chances we can't afford to miss any more, and the longer we wait, the more we'll miss out on.
Post by: Draigh on April 07, 2012, 05:45:05 am
But are we a character, with many facets? Or are we a caricature, with only one side and one way to solve a problem?
My suggestion is to embrace and develop those different aspects of Nym and make it a whole that is more than the sum of it's components.
And yes, we need to tell Omo soon. I never said we should wait ages.
But there is a time and place for everything. And forcing it like this is, in my opinion, the worst thing you can do.
If you want to go telling here in the city, might I suggest to tell it in the middle of market square? Then we can get it over with and all. Because if you are aiming for the lynch mob, then at least do it with style.
Post by: Grek on April 07, 2012, 06:55:06 am
If you want to go telling here in the city, might I suggest to tell it in the middle of market square? Then we can get it over with and all. Because if you are aiming for the lynch mob, then at least do it with style.This is an absurd caricature of my suggestion, and I'm not going to dignify it with further response.
If someone suggests that we wait, then answer this for me please: How long do you want to wait? As a quantity like "In 4 hours", "In 3 days" or "In two weeks", not an ambigious quality like "When it is safe to do so." Time is money (or, in our case, lives saved) and I want to know exactly what people are willing to spend just to be sure nobody's listening in.
Post by: GlyphGryph on April 07, 2012, 09:05:05 am
Quote
The first night in the wilderness away from elves and outside of a settlement was last night and we still haven't told him.No, it wasn't. We were still in the middle of Elflands - we needed Omo to help us escape. Now, at least, he can choose to go his own way if he so wishes without dooming us to death at the hands of the elf who would, eventually, discover our powers.
Visiting the town was to /help/ him.
As far as the zombies - there is huge benefits for experimentation here. If we run into trouble, well, it will just force our hand conversation-wise, I think.
I do agree we should tell him today, but I also think we should leave the town. So here is my plan:
Since we still need to do the shopping I wanted to do earlier: Buying maps, seeing the price and availability of crystals, refilling used rations etc. and so on. Omo did the information seeking for us, at least, but it would be nice to ask a few more questions. We might want to consider a better weapon for ourselves, but those will probably be expensive right now, and our magic is a better weapon. So I argue for the following:
1 hour for breakfast, 2 hours for shopping, 2 hours for sightseeing, then we leave, head straight into the wilderness, and three hours or so out, we sit Omo down and tell him everything. 3 hours should be safe enough, I think. And the zombies may be about, but I doubt there going to be a likely encounter off the road and away from people, and if they are the irregular terrain of the wilderness (along with trees to climb) could only really work to our advantage.
In 8 hours - we'll be ready for our first night in the wilderness, and we tell Omo.
Post by: Felius on April 07, 2012, 09:57:51 am
Also, just to put it in context, remember the one hour distance was on foot. That's maybe 5 to 10 km depending if they measure it as a leisure walk or a forced march (possibly a little bit more if elves are faster than humans). We are, at least not yet, absurdly enduring and fast, it'll take a little more before we can do an Aragorn and go 45 leagues in 4 days during a pursuit. Assuming a normal pace we probably could expect do maybe 30 km / day, maybe 45-60 in a forced march, although I don't think we could do that for many days.
Back to the subject, do tell we want to speak with him somewhere we can't be overheared. And remember him we are going deeper into human lands, we'll have more opportunities to do sightseeing.
As an excuse: If anyone not Omo asks why we are in so much of a hurry to get out of the city, we tell them it's because the city lacks life, too few plants, not enough wild life, etc.
Post by: Deep Waters on April 07, 2012, 11:27:54 am
QuoteThe first night in the wilderness away from elves and outside of a settlement was last night and we still haven't told him.No, it wasn't. We were still in the middle of Elflands - we needed Omo to help us escape. Now, at least, he can choose to go his own way if he so wishes without dooming us to death at the hands of the elf who would, eventually, discover our powers.
Visiting the town was to /help/ him.
As far as the zombies - there is huge benefits for experimentation here. If we run into trouble, well, it will just force our hand conversation-wise, I think.
I do agree we should tell him today, but I also think we should leave the town. So here is my plan:
Since we still need to do the shopping I wanted to do earlier: Buying maps, seeing the price and availability of crystals, refilling used rations etc. and so on. Omo did the information seeking for us, at least, but it would be nice to ask a few more questions. We might want to consider a better weapon for ourselves, but those will probably be expensive right now, and our magic is a better weapon. So I argue for the following:
1 hour for breakfast, 2 hours for shopping, 2 hours for sightseeing, then we leave, head straight into the wilderness, and three hours or so out, we sit Omo down and tell him everything. 3 hours should be safe enough, I think. And the zombies may be about, but I doubt there going to be a likely encounter off the road and away from people, and if they are the irregular terrain of the wilderness (along with trees to climb) could only really work to our advantage.
In 8 hours - we'll be ready for our first night in the wilderness, and we tell Omo.
This works. Not really much benefit to extended sightseeing other than to make Omo happy, anyways. :P However, in this scenario, it might not be a good idea to tell Omo that we want to tell him something. He may get impatient and ask us to tell before the full five hours of travel are up. I thought of that before, but in this case it has fewer benefits- if we can get Omo to leave before the day is through, it'll be easier to keep him from attempting to extend our stay farther than we originally agreed upon, which is a large part of the reason why I suggested that idea. If we do hint to him that we wanted to tell him something, however, I suggest doing it in the way Lord Bucket suggested it.
Lord Bucket's way of throwing pursuers off our trail is also an interesting idea, and would be a very good idea if not for one thing- any Rangers who set off after us and are senior enough to keep us from noticing them even as they're about to pounce would probably be able to track us up to the point we split and back to the city. This would buy us two days at the very most, no more, and will take up most of the current day besides. If any Rangers are pursuing us currently (and after extended thought I really believe it is an 'if'; even if they didn't have bigger things to worry about I doubt the Rangers know what to do about a pair of strange Elves jumping the border- pursuing them past Larathor without a direct order would weaken the Elf borders, and for what? Two elves that are probably either suicidal or thrill-seeking nutjobs?), it simply won't be enough- and that's not even bringing our mother, an accomplished mage, into the equation. <<;
Post by: LordBucket on April 07, 2012, 03:02:36 pm
Let's take a few hours
do tell we want to speak with him somewhere we can't be overheared
There's a group of rangers within walking distance who will be crossing the rivers to come look for us as soon as the ferryman shows up. Once they do, the town is the first place they're going to look. As rare as elves outside the vale seem to be, everyone in town who sees us will notice. It will be a completely trivial matter for the rangers to come to town, ask around, and find us.
Once they do, we will then half a pack of rangers on our tail, some who might have hundreds of years of tracking, stealth and hunting experience. Some of whom may have the ability to speak with animals, and possibly other magic abilities.
Question: If the rangers do find us, how can we ever be sure that we're alone?
We need to either create a false trail then hide out in town for a few days as I proposed, or we need to leave immediately. This "stick around for a few hours and then leave" combines all the problems of both options.
Lord Bucket's way of throwing pursuers off our trail is also an interesting idea, and would be a very good idea if not for one thing- any Rangers who set off after us and are senior enough to keep us from noticing them even as they're about to pounce would probably be able to track us up to the point we split and back to the city.
That's entirely possible. But:
1) Even if that's the case, leaving without creating a false trail doesn't improve our chances of escape. Hanging around for a few hours to give them time to definitely find us and then leaving, like some people are suggesting, is even worse.
2) Tracking our physical trail may be more difficult than you suggest. This is a town, we'll be leaving on a well traveled road. (Remember the refugees.) Distinguishing two tracks out of dozens on a dirt road is going to be way more difficult than tracking the only two humanoid tracks through a jungle.
3) Rangers are going to be experienced with outdoor stealth and tracking. Someone wearing a disguise and hiding a city is not the kind of thing they're used to dealing with. It will be easier for us to hide from them in the city than in the woods.
4) Even if they do find us in the city, it will be easier for us to notice them than if they're hiding in trees and shrubs. Them knowing where we are, but us knowing that they know where we are is preferable to them knowing where we are, and us not knowing it. We want to be alone when we have our talk with Omo. We don't want to be in the woods with a ranger hiding in the bushes to overhear that we're a necromancer and then send that information back to the elven council preparing to wage war on necromancers.
Post by: monk12 on April 07, 2012, 08:58:38 pm
We never earned any xp for those spells because we only earn experience from doing necromancer things, as stated in the author's note in Chap 1, Part 1.QuoteYou level up by gaining XP- you gain XP by casting Necromancy spells.
I believe Monk did say there were other ways, but I can't quite remember- I think it was combat or something. I could probably dig it up, but not right now.
Yeah, you mainly gain XP for Necromancy specific spells. I may also award XP for dealing with life-threatening situations (including but not limited to combat.) Omo mostly gets XP for prowess in combat (your standard "he hits things, they fall over, XP!") but he can also get it for being particularly Ranger-y, if he's doing some tricky tracking or hunting or whatever.
Basically, leveling up is tied to doing your job well, not doing new things- you can learn lots of useful new skills and abilities, but if they aren't helping you be a better [insert Class here] then you aren't going to level up as a result. You are a Necromancer, not a Hedge Wizard, so general magic spells don't level you up.
Monk, can we get a price quote on human commoner clothes?
A poor peasant outfit (shirt + skirt/breeches) would run you like 2 copper, and you could probably buy a used or patched set for less if you can find a commoner in the sellers market. Nicer clothes suitable for a skilled craftsman would be more like 1 silver. Scholars tend to wear nice robes with simple embellishments worth 5 silver (including soft, library-friendly shoes, belt, cap, cloak, etc)
You aren't in any immediate danger of becoming destitute, no.
Anywho, carry on!
Post by: Descan on April 07, 2012, 09:02:21 pm
So Necromancy isn't one of those, Designed-To-Be-Hid, something that whatever created magic knew people would feel ill about and therefore sought to help in that regard. Which means it's been co-opted! And that we can succeed in our attempts to rehabilitate it!
Just a thought. :3
Post by: killerhellhound on April 10, 2012, 10:27:22 pm
Post by: Grek on April 10, 2012, 10:30:35 pm
Post by: Lord Allagon on April 10, 2012, 10:33:50 pm
I am content with GlyphGryph's plan.+1
Post by: Cellmonk on April 10, 2012, 10:37:53 pm
+2I am content with GlyphGryph's plan.+1
Post by: Ehndras on April 10, 2012, 10:40:43 pm
Post by: lockman766 on April 10, 2012, 11:36:03 pm
Post by: killerhellhound on April 11, 2012, 12:05:46 am
(now to look though the books of test to find what we are doing )
Post by: killerhellhound on April 14, 2012, 01:18:42 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 14, 2012, 10:17:15 am
bumpPlease don't do that.
Post by: lockman766 on April 14, 2012, 05:58:52 pm
or if you do don't just say bump make conversation or a joke just something besides bump...see what I did there.bumpPlease don't do that.
Post by: Cellmonk on April 14, 2012, 06:31:47 pm
or if you do don't just say bump make conversation or a joke just something besides bump...see what I did there.bumpPlease don't do that.
.....
Bump
Bump
Bump
.....
Spoiler: Bump (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Descan on April 14, 2012, 06:34:08 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on April 14, 2012, 06:35:25 pm
Post by: Deep Waters on April 14, 2012, 06:37:17 pm
Screw you guys, I saw this with posts and got all... excited. :/
Poor GlyphGryph. We should bake him some internets to make him feel better. :P
Post by: Cellmonk on April 14, 2012, 06:48:52 pm
Screw you guys, I saw this with posts and got all... excited. :/
Poor GlyphGryph. We should bake him some internets to make him feel better. :P
Here you go, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp0pe6LupPk) Glyph! I hope it makes you feel better! ;)
Post by: killerhellhound on April 14, 2012, 11:52:34 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lord Allagon on April 15, 2012, 10:49:05 pm
Post by: monk12 on April 16, 2012, 12:15:03 am
Spoiler: Author's Note (click to show/hide)
Since we still need to do the shopping I wanted to do earlier: Buying maps, seeing the price and availability of crystals, refilling used rations etc. and so on. Omo did the information seeking for us, at least, but it would be nice to ask a few more questions. We might want to consider a better weapon for ourselves, but those will probably be expensive right now, and our magic is a better weapon. So I argue for the following:
1 hour for breakfast, 2 hours for shopping, 2 hours for sightseeing, then we leave, head straight into the wilderness, and three hours or so out, we sit Omo down and tell him everything. 3 hours should be safe enough, I think. And the zombies may be about, but I doubt there going to be a likely encounter off the road and away from people, and if they are the irregular terrain of the wilderness (along with trees to climb) could only really work to our advantage.
In 8 hours - we'll be ready for our first night in the wilderness, and we tell Omo.
Different types of mages are able to do the same kind of magic. Illusions can be done by Chaos, Water AND Air mages. That means that golems also might be possible with different kinds of magic (Chaos and Earth comes to mind). At least something we might want to research: What are the types of effects that are possible with each type of magic?
-and you can get a great view of everything from the towers in the keep, and-
Gah! Alright! How about a compromise; we spend a couple hours gathering supplies, we spend a couple hours sightseeing, and leave after lunch. Sound good?
Are you sure we can't spare a single day?
Quite sure.
Alright, fine. C'mon, if we've only got 'till noon, let's get started!
Hang on, I'm not going anywhere without breakfast.
You can stuff your face any time, we've only got a few hours to spend here!
Agh- tell you what, how about you go shopping while I eat. Then we can spend more time on the town.
Sounds good- what all do we need?
A better map, at least, and we could stand to top off our supplies. I'd like to find out just how easy it is to come by Crystal outside the Vale- I don't plan to do any buying, but it'd be nice to know what kind of availability we're talking about. Here, this should cover it.
It's a plan! See you in a bit!
Omo scoops up the handful of copper you give him, scoops up his belongings and jauntily steps out the door. You take the time to rinse your face and hands in the washbasin before gathering your own supplies and heading downstairs. The common room is empty of the revelers from the night before, deserted save for a pair of merchants doing business at a table near the stairs. One gives you a surprised look, and you remember you don't have your cloak on- you mentally remind yourself to buy a headband when Omo gets back, to cover your ears at least.
Waving the proprieter over, you hand over 5 copper in exchange for a hearty meal of hot porridge mixed with dried apples. As you eat, you open Prestidigitation for the Beginning Practitioner to the chapter that discusses the other Magical Faiths. Although the dissertation on the theory of Magic is dense and uninteresting, you do manage to glean some useful tidbits of knowledge.
The Elemental Magics form the basis of, well, everything- some living things are more suited for one form of Magic than others (which is why Merfolk tend towards Water spells, and not Fire) but most creatures have equal affinity for each element- whatever that means. Fire magic deals with control of fire, obviously, but also volcanoes and lava, light, and matters of the soul. Water magic, besides control of the element, is also heavily involved with the fundamental processes of living things and their base instincts, with a wide variety of related applications ranging from healing to divination and illusion. Water Mystics are widely regarded as the best healing available short of an Elf (which, given the reclusiveness of the Elves, often translates to "the best healing available.") Air magic is heavily tied to storms and the weather, as well as affairs of the mind- the Text is less clear on this Faith than the others. Earth magic deals with the shaping of stones and dirt, as well as knowledge of what lies in the depths. Many subterranean creatures are strongly Earth aligned, as well.
The Derived Magics have quite a bit more detail, so for now you just skim the highlights. Order draws on the innate propensity of things to self-organize- it doesn't explain it any better than that, since it is assumed that the reader already has a basic knowledge of Order Magic. You do have a pretty good idea of what Order is useful for, though- Order Wizards have access to the most potent divinations in the world, as well as defensive abilities strong enough to ward entire armies. They also have some small healing talent, though not nearly so much as practitioners of Water or Life. Chaos is not well understood, which perhaps makes sense given the nature of the text's author. It does detail quite a few known abilities of Chaos Shaman gleaned from centuries of enmity, however. Chaos is used in a variety of ways, altering luck, sowing discord on the battlefield through illusions and mind-altering effects, and truly puissant Shaman have the power to transform their foes into harmless rabbits (or their friends into powerful monsters!)
The entry on Life magic doesn't tell you anything you didn't know (and in fact, some of the details you know to be wrong,) but the entry on Necromancy has its own little chapter. Unfortunately, it has very little information on the practical abilities of Necromancers- instead it focuses on the detection and removal of Necromancer threats. Quite frankly, even that information seems of limited use- you know from personal experience that Necromancers do not blight plants wherever they walk, nor do they lose all their hair when they manifest their powers! Most of this chapter seems to boil down to "if weird stuff is going on, keep the suspected Necromancer sedated and wait for more powerful Wizards to divine the truth."
Hey bookworm, done yet?
You jump in surprise as Omo plops down next to you. Bloody... yeah, I'm ready to go. Did you have trouble buying supplies?
Nope- well, I haven't heard a price on your Crystal yet. Apparently only the biggest cities support enough magic users to warrant a shop for the selling of it- mostly towns order a supply from the Caravans and wait for it to be delivered. I did hear that the temples keep a ready supply of Crystal, however, and will probably sell at cost.
You heard this? From who?
A priest at a bar. He said if we wanted to know more, we could swing by the Temple and talk with one of the priests who are in charge of such things. And since I wanted to go there anyway...
Alright, alright, let me stow my things. Also, we need headbands to hide our ears.
Right, so instead of being beautiful, graceful strangers with pointy ears we'll just be beautiful, graceful strangers with odd fashion sense.
I choose to ignore your tone. Let's go!
As it turns out, the Jolly Badger is situated quite near the merchant district, and you find a cloth merchant with little trouble. For a few copper, you buy a short length of rough, plain white wool cloth, and cut it into wide strips for use as headbands. Moving through the crowds, you can tell it isn't doing much to distract attention from yourselves, but at least you aren't obviously Elves now.
Omo leads you North along the main road, to a wide plaza where it meets the East/West trade route. You take a few minutes to admire the statue at the center of the plaza. It's a very old statue, perhaps as old as the Golgothan War, and depicts a human pikeman shielding a young Elven woman with a child on her back. A weathered bronze plaque at its base somberly informs you that the statue represents the role the humans of Thrimesdur played in protecting the Elven Refugees from agents of the Necromancer. Not only is it quite the feel-good story, but the settling of Yicelafo led directly to increased land trade between Thrimesdur and points West, which ultimately resulted in the current prosperity of Larathor.
You wonder if this is how all the humans in Thrimesdur view themselves- defenders of the weak and helpless. It certainly seems like they are a more noble people than the Elders were giving them credit for when you were at their Council. Then again, the men and women who defended the Refugees are long dead, while many of the very same Elves who were defended are still alive- perhaps the Elders are familiar with their descendents, and find the current generation of humans lacking.
Omo (quite literally) pulls you from your reflection and across the plaza to the Temple. The structure is enormous- while the Temples of the Elves are commonly constructed around trees or places of natural beauty, the Temple of Order is a tall, stone building in the shape of a cross. The center of the cross is a belltower rising high above the cityscape. The cross is circumscribed by a low stone wall- the empty quadrants bound by the building and the wall both have a single gazebo in their center, surrounded be neatly arranged flowerbeds cut by straight cobblestone paths.
Coming closer, you can see that the stonework of the building is decorated with simple patterns and mazes. The front gates are flanked by tall, ornately decorated columns. Pushing the massive iron-bound doors open, you slip inside and stop in wonder. The antechamber has a high, vaulted ceiling, with colored glass windows allowing rays of sunlight to slant inside. The walls are covered in engravings of all kinds, and while you don't know their significance you can't deny their beauty.
A passing priest in flowing cream robes smiles as he approaches you.
Hail, pilgrims! Mid-morning services will begin shortly, if you'd like to grab a seat.
Actually, we're just passing through before we have to leave town- we'd heard that this was a beautiful Temple.
Well! I hope it did not disappoint!
No, not at all. We don't have any stonework like this at home.
Oh? Where do you hail from? I can tell you aren't local.
Er, we come from the West. Actually, I had heard you also sell Crystal- is that right?
Indeed it is- the Temples of Order will sell to any friend of Thrimesdur at no profit to themselves. Magic users frequently further The Plan regardless of their specific orientation, even more so than common men.
The Plan?
We believe that there is a higher power acting through all of us, from the lowliest serf to the highest king, even the Gods. We hold that this purpose is the betterment of all creation, for creation itself could not exist without its orderly influence- all things, good or ill, have a reason for occurring.
Is that what these engravings represent? Steps in the Plan?
A good guess, but no. The engravings in this chamber depict our history, and what came before- even though the future seems uncertain and indeterminate, it is merely a matter of perspective, for one day the flow of events will seem as inevitable and planned as our own history. Ah, but I've babbled enough- if you're looking for a theological discussion, feel free to find me after services.
No thank you, we're just here to appreciate your surroundings.
That's wonderful- feel free to wander and admire at your will, restricted areas are clearly marked. I'd give you a guided tour, but I have services to conduct. Enjoy your visit!
With that, he moves deeper into the building. Although you feel time pressing on you, you do in fact enjoy this visit- the Temple has a serene, secure quality at odds with the bustling town outside, and while the meaning of the many artworks is lost on you it is easy to appreciate the craftsmanship of their making. You and Omo spend more than an hour wandering the Temple, examining statuary and engravings, paintings and tapestries.
Afterwards, you elect to simply wander the city, experiencing the bustling atmosphere of a prosperous human town and taking in the architecture, so unlike that of home. It seems that every plaza has a statue, some of inscriptions detailing a tidbit of the history of Larathor and the river trade, many with nothing to explain their presence. You rather suspect that there is a reason for each artwork- from your conversation with the priest, you'd wager everything in this town is planned and plotted by somebody. There is little spontaneity among the humans of Thrimesdur, quite unlike the impulsive Elves.
Eventually your sightseeing leads you to the keep- the doors are open to the public, although there are many guardsmen about keeping a watchful eye on strangers. You find yourself atop one of the walls, looking out over the sloped rooftops and the outer wall to the fields of grass and the farmland beyond. As the Temple Bell sounds the noon hour, you turn to Omo.
Alright, I think we've had enough fun for one day. We need to get ready for the next leg of our journey.
Yeah, yeah... I suppose you're right. OK. I got this map while I was out this morning.
(http://tnypic.net/images/00807.jpg) (http://tnypic.net/)
Omo, I certainly hope you didn't pay money for this! It looks like it was scribbled on the back of a napkin!
Yeah, it might not have been so much "me buying a map" as "me asking for directions and sketching them" at the bar.
Oh, Omo.
Hey, it's perfectly serviceable! The red dots are the larger farming villages along the road, and the green bits are farmland. Water gets harder to come by further inland, so farms get few and far between once you're past the villages. Figure a good day's travel East will get us that far- after that, it's the wilderness.
Nuts, I thought the wilderness was closer than that.
Eh?
Nothing. So, if I'm reading this right, it's 100 miles to... Axle penne?
Er, no, I smudged that big. It's supposed to say Atkilpeme- it's the Captial of Thrimesdur. When we get there, we'll be almost halfway to the Sacred Grove. It's the getting there that'll be tricky, though.
How tricky is tricky?
It depends how you want to tackle this, I suppose. If we follow the road, we'll almost certainly run into the forces of the Necromancer along the way. If we wanted to avoid him, we could detour North into Bothoninen, The Murky Hills. The problem with that is that we'd run the risk of running into goblins or other monsters raiding from the mountains. If we detoured South around the Necromancer, we'd come to Aloclesno, The Shaken Forest.
That doesn't sound so bad. We can handle forest.
Well, supposedly, Aloclesno is haunted. Like, really haunted. In the "none who enter" leave sense of the word. That might just be superstition, but the guy I was talking to laughed pretty hard when I suggested that route.
Hm. What do you think?
If we leave now, we can probably make that second village before nightfall. After that, we'll be leaving civilization and need to pick our direction. Going straight along the road should take us two/three days, while detouring could take as long as five. The thing is, we don't know exactly where the Necromancer is- he could be well north or south of the main road and easy to avoid, or he could be squatting on the whole thing with a massive army stretched out to either side.
Hm...
It's a tricky situation- going North could result in an encounter with bloodthirsty goblinoid savages, while going South means entering a mysterious, supposedly cursed forest. And somewhere straight ahead is the Necromancer Curo Nightroar himself, and the bulk of his undead forces...
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: Koronii on April 16, 2012, 12:32:51 am
Post by: LordBucket on April 16, 2012, 12:38:49 am
For a few copper, you buy a short length of rough, plain
white wool cloth, and cut it into wide strips for use as headbands.
Somebody had to link it:
(http://cosmicduckling.com/spirk/bus1.jpg)
As to which way to go, The shaken forest looks to be relatively small and the road leading south out of Atkilpeme curves west around it. We should simply be able to go south to the intersection, then east to that road. That way we completely avoid all the dangerous things.
However...before we decide:
Quick price check on horses
Post by: Cellmonk on April 16, 2012, 12:43:38 am
I would check the price of horses, but I wouldn't rely on them. Horses are often fragile things on alien planets. I speak from experience here.
EDIT: oh whoops. I think this post went on the wrong Topic. XD
Post by: bombzero on April 16, 2012, 12:46:19 am
also, we CANNOT wait that long to tell him, every day we wait just adds to the chance of him being angry for us not telling him.
Post by: fergus on April 16, 2012, 12:49:57 am
seems best to head south or north, if an undead horde attacks us, were probably fucked.Seconded. Preference goes to South, because we might be able to control the ghosts.
also, we CANNOT wait that long to tell him, every day we wait just adds to the chance of him being angry for us not telling him.
Post by: LordBucket on April 16, 2012, 01:07:14 am
I would check the price of horses, but I wouldn't rely on them.
Horses are often fragile things on alien planets.
If they die, we then have undead mounts. What's the problem?
Post by: Draigh on April 16, 2012, 01:48:29 am
So my vote would be to go through the forest.
Post by: Grek on April 16, 2012, 01:52:00 am
Post by: Baneling on April 16, 2012, 02:16:33 am
Go check the horse prices and get mounted if the price is at all reasonable. Ride on until out of sight of town, then stop and tell Omo what we need to tell him. If all goes well, he won't freak and we'll have time to go to the first village on our route and stop for the night. The next day, we ride on to the third village and detour south through the haunted forest. Sound good?
I agree with this wholeheartedly.
Post by: LordBucket on April 16, 2012, 03:25:55 am
south through the haunted forest
What's the benefit of deliberately going through the forest rather than simply following the road around it?
Post by: fergus on April 16, 2012, 03:32:47 am
A shorter journey.south through the haunted forest
What's the benefit of deliberately going through the forest rather than simply following the road around it?
Post by: LordBucket on April 16, 2012, 03:41:45 am
A shorter journey.
Only as the crow flies. They make roads for a reason. If we wanted the most direct path we'd go through the zombies, but I don't see anyone suggesting that.
Post by: Felius on April 16, 2012, 05:02:50 am
I'd vote for the forest or the hills, ideally the forest, unless we discover problematic info about it.
On a sidenote: I'm actually a bit curious about what place necromancers fit in "The Plan", and what posture the religion have about them in general (instead of the ones are sending hordes of zombies against the cities of their parish.
Post by: RAM on April 16, 2012, 07:05:51 am
Post by: Deep Waters on April 16, 2012, 08:04:04 am
Go check the horse prices and get mounted if the price is at all reasonable. Ride on until out of sight of town, then stop and tell Omo what we need to tell him. If all goes well, he won't freak and we'll have time to go to the first village on our route and stop for the night.The next day, we ride on to the third village and detour south through the haunted forest.Sound good?
I agree with this wholeheartedly.
I say south. It is a forest, we are elves. Given that the locals are spooked, we should stick to the edge if we can, but stay close enough to seek refuge inside the forest without being seen. And we still haven't mentioned to Omo that we have an important secret to tell them...
+1
On a sidenote: I'm actually a bit curious about what place necromancers fit in "The Plan", and what posture the religion have about them in general (instead of the ones are sending hordes of zombies against the cities of their parish.
+1
Post by: Ehndras on April 16, 2012, 09:49:03 am
North would be interesting, but we'd be screwed if we encountered goblins. A helpess
Post by: MikaTheCrazy on April 16, 2012, 10:01:31 am
Post by: GlyphGryph on April 16, 2012, 10:34:08 am
Make sure promises to hear us out, and wait a while before responding rashly and stuff.
Also, I oppose horses if we're going through the forest - they wouldn't be able to come with us.
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 16, 2012, 10:57:32 am
Post by: Felius on April 16, 2012, 11:08:25 am
Hey I have an idea. Let's wait until we're in the middle of the haunted forest before we tell him we're a necromancer.Just in case you are not joking: No, let's keep up with the plan. This have all the markings to hilariously wrong...
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 16, 2012, 11:24:16 am
I was kidding. It would be hilarious though.Hey I have an idea. Let's wait until we're in the middle of the haunted forest before we tell him we're a necromancer.Just in case you are not joking: No, let's keep up with the plan. This have all the markings to hilariously wrong...
The elf with the worst sense of timing ever. "Hey Omo... I know you're worried about those spooky noises but I have to tell you something. I'm a necromancer and I can raise the dead. I even did it once to a fish, then ate the zombie fish so I could see my own stomach. It was gross."
Post by: Grek on April 16, 2012, 11:52:25 am
Post by: GlyphGryph on April 16, 2012, 11:55:18 am
Post by: Baneling on April 16, 2012, 12:04:26 pm
It was totally one of our better moments. And he'd get a hoot of it... but, not right away. That's a "later" story. After the shock wears off. :P
...IF the shock wears off. He might try and off us there and then, we're still not entirely sure. We shouldn't be banking on ANYTHING at the moment, not even what monk says.
Post by: GlyphGryph on April 16, 2012, 12:17:56 pm
By telling him (rather than letting him discover it should it ever be needed), we're offering him an open hand. Nothing about him makes him seem like the type who'd respond to that with a dagger to the heart.
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 16, 2012, 12:19:26 pm
Post by: monk12 on April 16, 2012, 01:12:51 pm
For a few copper, you buy a short length of rough, plain
white wool cloth, and cut it into wide strips for use as headbands.
Somebody had to link it:
(http://cosmicduckling.com/spirk/bus1.jpg)
As to which way to go, The shaken forest looks to be relatively small and the road leading south out of Atkilpeme curves west around it. We should simply be able to go south to the intersection, then east to that road. That way we completely avoid all the dangerous things.
However...before we decide:
Quick price check on horses
That was actually exactly what I was going for. +1 cookie for you!
Mounts can be quite useful, but are also expensive. A pony costs 30 silver- if you buy two, you would be faster over short distances (escaping enemies) but not appreciably faster over long distance. If you had 3 ponies (the third to hold your supplies and distribute your weight) you would travel faster overland, from 24 miles/day to 32. Ponies would indeed be able to accompany you through the forest, you just wouldn't be much faster than if you were on foot for that portion.
The other option would be a light horse. They are much faster than ponies (in fact, they're the fastest available mount) but they cost 75 silver a pop. However, even riding double with Omo you would move faster than on foot, at the 32 mile/day pace. If you managed to secure 3 horses (one for you, Omo, and your supplies) you'd travel at a blistering 48 miles/day. Horses, like ponies, would be able to accompany you through the forest, they would simply be slower.
Neither option would be war-trained, meaning they could spook in tough situations (Calm Animal can solve this situation,) and the costs do not include such niceties as saddles, saddlebags, bridles, etc. Those items are not strictly necessary (especially given your Elvenness) but a pack animal would need something to carry its burden with. Saddlebags only cost 4 silver, but don't hold all too much. A pack saddle would cost 15 silver and allow the animal to carry as much as it can stand up under, which is quite a bit.
Seems like native fauna might be very useful for transportation, in the long run. The lobster wolf seems kind of slow. maybe we'll come across a predator, something that slithers or crawls faster and quieter than any machine through the damp canopies, or across the broad plains.
I would check the price of horses, but I wouldn't rely on them. Horses are often fragile things on alien planets. I speak from experience here.
EDIT: oh whoops. I think this post went on the wrong Topic. XD
*resists urge to include ghostly lobster wolf packs*
A shorter journey.south through the haunted forest
What's the benefit of deliberately going through the forest rather than simply following the road around it?
More specifically, about 3 days shorter of a journey, assuming you don't have significant trouble in the forest itself. If you get a horse, it'd only save you about a day and a half. Omo's napkin map is rather... rough.
Post by: LordBucket on April 16, 2012, 01:38:44 pm
A pony costs 30 silver
a light horse.
they cost 75 silver a pop.
I think that's more than we'd like to spend. Pass on mounts then.
What's the benefit of deliberately going through the forest rather than simply following the road around it?
about 3 days shorter of a journey, assuming you don't have significant trouble in the forest itself.
We can take those 3 days. There's nothing in Atkilpeme that we're particularly in a hurry to get to. We've spent too much time near people and cities anyway. It's been ages since we did any necromancy. We have spells to practice and experiments to conduct.
We want to take time on the road.
Head south on foot, follow the road, don't go through forest
Have our chat with Omo then get back to practicing necromancy
Post by: GlyphGryph on April 16, 2012, 01:55:07 pm
Post by: Draigh on April 16, 2012, 02:06:38 pm
less likely to meet random travellers that notice necromantic experiments
And we are used to be in forests, those humans are just afraid of their own shadows because they are used to the open plains.
Right??
Post by: Felius on April 16, 2012, 04:46:25 pm
Post by: killerhellhound on April 17, 2012, 09:51:33 pm
Post by: Cellmonk on April 17, 2012, 10:16:36 pm
Maybe we could raise a freshly dead moose or something omo hunts eventually. Would hardly look dead if we patch it up, and those antlers beat any weapon undead might carry, especially if we nail in some metal struts or something.
Post by: killerhellhound on April 17, 2012, 10:17:49 pm
Eventually, if we are far from civilization and omo knows what we are, we could raise a dead horse from some battlefield. Undead horses or other large creatures may be an effective way of battling any small groups of zombies we might encounter as well, as they are generally more powerful than any humanoid form. This is thinking a bit long term of course. But if we are heading into deeper wilderness, a living horse may not be a necessity, considering our power.agreed +1
Maybe we could raise a freshly dead moose or something omo hunts eventually. Would hardly look dead if we patch it up, and those antlers beat any weapon undead might carry, especially if we nail in some metal struts or something.
Post by: Lord Allagon on April 17, 2012, 10:31:01 pm
How much exactly is the Gold-to-silver ratio? It's confusing me a bit.
+2Eventually, if we are far from civilization and omo knows what we are, we could raise a dead horse from some battlefield. Undead horses or other large creatures may be an effective way of battling any small groups of zombies we might encounter as well, as they are generally more powerful than any humanoid form. This is thinking a bit long term of course. But if we are heading into deeper wilderness, a living horse may not be a necessity, considering our power.agreed +1
Maybe we could raise a freshly dead moose or something omo hunts eventually. Would hardly look dead if we patch it up, and those antlers beat any weapon undead might carry, especially if we nail in some metal struts or something.
Post by: Grek on April 17, 2012, 10:52:26 pm
Adding another vote onto the forest, no ponies plan.
Post by: Cellmonk on April 17, 2012, 11:11:01 pm
- we should try to hunt various creatures via steal vitality. small creatures at first, then medium ones like foxes. test our range of attack, and mana cost.
- we should try to reanimate a creature we killed with a mere vitality steal. Would be a perfect condition zombie.
- finally, we should see if we can order our zombie to mimic breathing and heartbeat. If we can turn all its life processes back on, it will hardly seem undead to people we come across. This might also allow us to turn its immune system back on and stop rotting (if raising it doesn't do that already).
- we should experiment with ways of withdrawing our control of a zombie. See if we can "turn it on" soon after death, and then let it run on its own. If it retains its soul, this should be just like extremely effective CPR.
Post by: Endymion107 on April 18, 2012, 08:26:37 am
Maybe we could raise a freshly dead moose or something omo hunts eventually. Would hardly look dead if we patch it up, and those antlers beat any weapon undead might carry, especially if we nail in some metal struts or something.
The whole 'glowing purple fire eyes' thing kinda ruins that plan, unless only we can see it, could confirm using Omo.
Post by: GlyphGryph on April 18, 2012, 10:03:32 am
I second the hunting via steal vitality thing.
Also, we should try /healing/ with necromantic magic. With the information that multiple types of magic can heal, we might well have a chance of being able to do so ourself, in our own way. Basically, try to apply necromantic energy to a creature that is only wounded, not dead, but in a positive way.
Then we can work on attaching additional undead components to living creatures. :P
Post by: LordBucket on April 18, 2012, 10:18:58 am
Also, we should try /healing/ with necromantic magic.
Speaking of which, I proposed this and several other experiments here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=96692.msg3170711#msg3170711) that I didn't see added to the list last update.
Post by: GlyphGryph on April 18, 2012, 10:22:57 am
I can't wait to see what we can do to GHOOOOOSTS though. :P
Do you suppose we might have an ability to raise spirits as well as bodies?
Post by: Endymion107 on April 18, 2012, 11:48:12 am
Post by: Draigh on April 18, 2012, 11:57:02 am
My experience from good tabletop roleplaying games:
If the story is good, the experience will follow when it's needed.
It's not like we are going to challenge the big bad guys tomorrow.
Anyway, time for a walk through a haunted forest?
Post by: Endymion107 on April 18, 2012, 11:58:23 am
Post by: Draigh on April 18, 2012, 12:06:31 pm
Meaning that we just need to experiment and learn more to get more skills. And only the necromantic skills give experience, not the others.
Post by: Endymion107 on April 18, 2012, 12:10:43 pm
Post by: LordBucket on April 18, 2012, 09:34:47 pm
Also we have been at 19/20 exp for the last 20 years, its been bugging me.
I've been suggesting we get back to practicing for about 15 of those years, but you people keep out voting me.
Post by: Descan on April 18, 2012, 09:45:27 pm
Post by: LordBucket on April 18, 2012, 10:08:52 pm
What are you talking about, years?
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/exaggerate
Post by: Felius on April 18, 2012, 11:52:22 pm
Post by: LordBucket on April 19, 2012, 12:59:23 am
* Low light vision / seeing in the dark
* Storing mana in material besides crystals
* Storing vitality instead of mana
* Vitality to mana conversion and back
* Imbibing objects with spells rather than mana to create magic items
* Wards
* Etc.
All this stuff has been proposed, and all of it could be done in plain sight. We could have been practicing this stuff the entire time while we were traveling with Omo, while we staying at the tavern...we probably could have done these things in the middle of town square in broad daylight...and nobody would have suspected us of necromancy.
Post by: GlyphGryph on April 23, 2012, 12:29:04 pm
Post by: killerhellhound on April 23, 2012, 05:57:32 pm
Post by: Lord Allagon on April 23, 2012, 05:58:08 pm
Post by: Kitten Snot on May 07, 2012, 02:50:49 am
That way we can try using control undead on stragglers. Omo might accept it seeing as we could use it to potentially save his life. Still it remains risky.
About the forest though, We don't have anything that let's us do anything about ghosts and the like, not to mention it isn't guaranteed to be ghosts.
Might be some crazy cannibal tribe or werewolves, Forgotten beasts maybe.
But in case of cannibals we can use what's left of some other humans (or the skeletons) to scare the shit out of them. not to mention give us a level up.
But i'm just rambling on about dumb shit that won't happen.
So i guess we go to the forest. If we die in there I'm blaming you guys.
Post by: RAM on May 07, 2012, 03:36:35 am
Post by: Endymion107 on May 07, 2012, 06:07:49 am
Post by: Kitten Snot on May 07, 2012, 06:28:38 am
Hell, if they leave organs we can create an army of digestive-system snakes that spit digestive fluids.
Omo probably wouldn't approve though. That shit's scary.
Endy's ideas are pretty cool too
Post by: racnor on May 07, 2012, 06:36:04 am
Post by: Kitten Snot on May 07, 2012, 08:15:22 am
Quote
And i think i will make the pregnant Woman have a fuckton of parasites in their snatch. so she kills people by squatting down on them and forcing out squirming live maggot from her vagina into their mouth.
... Bay12 what have you done to me. Whatever it is, KEEP DOING IT!
It's from my story I'm creating.I can be a sick bastard when i want to.
Post by: Ancre on May 07, 2012, 12:45:42 pm
Post by: Felius on May 08, 2012, 12:12:08 am
Post by: Felius on May 18, 2012, 10:23:37 am
Post by: Deep Waters on May 18, 2012, 02:24:31 pm
Have this died? Please don't die.^
EDIT: Do we get experience points for necroing this thread? /badjoke
Post by: GlyphGryph on May 18, 2012, 02:40:12 pm
Monk! Don't abandon your people. 0n0
Post by: Baneling on May 18, 2012, 03:42:56 pm
And all these other guys too I guess.
But mainly me!
Post by: monk12 on May 18, 2012, 07:42:37 pm
You do need me to tell you that this isn't dead- not forever, anyway. I fully intend to continue this. I don't know if that'll be in one month or in six, but it'll get done.
Post by: Draigh on May 19, 2012, 05:27:00 am
Post by: Theodolus on May 25, 2012, 04:34:58 pm
Post by: Inithis on August 08, 2012, 12:01:20 pm
Please, don't abandon us here with a cliffhanger! Right before we reveal our true nature to Omo, you decide to leave for three months? Not cool, man. It doesn't help that I can't find anything of this quality and type on the Bay12 forums.
I ask only one thing; that if you're going to leave for six months or so, at least resolve the cliffhanger. Please?
Post by: Ehndras on August 08, 2012, 01:22:00 pm
I'm bringing 2-3 roleplay threads up in commemoration of the RP games that got me to fall in love with this community a year ago... I have a lot of time on my hands now and don't know what to do with myself, since I've been partying and going out on trips a lot yet always find myself with more time to blow, I'm totally up for working on RPs and RPing again. :3
Lets keep Necro'ing this thread, eventually our necro skill will become strong enough to Raise Thread ;-D
Post by: Angle on August 08, 2012, 11:35:44 pm
Post by: Inithis on August 09, 2012, 01:50:48 pm
Send him messages and try to tear him away from his Pokemon or whatever he does these days.
Post by: Xantalos on August 09, 2012, 02:10:27 pm
Forget raise thread; try Raise Monk12Mario Kart Grand Prix, I believe.
Send him messages and try to tear him away from his Pokemon or whatever he does these days.
Post by: Inithis on August 09, 2012, 04:11:08 pm
>:(
All right, we NEED to get him to resolve his cliffhanger. I mean... Mario Kart? Seriously? That's just disappointing.
Our mission is in place!
Post by: monk12 on August 09, 2012, 10:51:05 pm
That said, I'll reiterate this is not dead. There's been a couple times in the last couple weeks I've wanted to restart it, but I don't want to punch out a couple-four updates and then disappear for another three months, so I'm trying to finish at least one of my other projects first.
I am incredibly glad this thread has been necroed.
Monk! Don't abandon your people. 0n0
Wow, I've been using that emote a lot lately and I completely forgot this is where I picked it up.
You know you've got a good thing going when, even after months of inactivity, it still refuses to stay dead.
It does give me a warm fuzzy feeling, yes. I do believe this has been my most well received project... ever, PRINCESS ABDUCTED (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=113460.msg3458798#msg3458798) notwithstanding. That alone makes it worth coming back to, quite apart from my own enjoyment of it- I must be doing something right, right?
Post by: Inithis on August 10, 2012, 01:23:19 am
Personally, you can post a little and fade for awhile. Just finish the cliffhanger!
I know I'm not one of your dedicated fans, but I love the story so far and want to see it brought to a natural sleeping point.
Post by: Xantalos on August 10, 2012, 01:48:17 am
Post by: Ancre on August 10, 2012, 12:15:50 pm
But do what's the most comfortable for you I guess. You have a fantastic story, and I'm glad to see it's still alive :)
Post by: Child of Armok on August 19, 2012, 02:00:32 am
i have experience with such things, i have raised two thread already.
Post by: Inithis on August 19, 2012, 09:38:14 am
Post by: LordBucket on August 19, 2012, 09:59:50 am
I do believe this has been my most well received project... ever
If it helps to give you an idea...I first found this thread back on page 40-50 or so.
I caught up and read every post by the following day, and I'm still following it six months later.
Post by: Endymion107 on August 20, 2012, 07:20:05 pm
I do not mind waiting a few more months if it is needed.
As long as this thread/story never dies completely.
Post by: Cellmonk on August 24, 2012, 11:39:20 pm
Post by: lockman766 on August 25, 2012, 12:08:14 am
Post by: Fireiy on August 26, 2012, 05:23:48 am
Post by: Deep Waters on August 26, 2012, 02:48:55 pm
I wish we could revive a bit of that old arguing/debating we used to do, though. That was the most fun I can remember having since I stopped having theological debates with a classmate of mine two of three years back. Maybe if we continue to keep this thread alive with such critical thinking and arguments, it'll help Monk with ideas and keep the interest going until he's able to come back.
For example, I took a few moments to reread parts of the thread, and I noticed a few things I hadn't beforehand. I don't know if anyone mentioned this before- I can't remember that far back, and I haven't reread the entire thread yet, but here goes:
One, it's mentioned that "an unlikely band of heroes [rose] up to slay [Balkoth] in battle and [ended] his reign of tyranny,or somesuch." Such a tale would likely be well-documented, if exaggerated- why don't we look for it? Knowing how those heroes defeated Balkoth might help in our own endeavors, both offensive (against the other necromancers) and defensive (against those who might use those same techniques against us). Besides, I'm honestly curious about it.
Two, I noticed something about the rope doll- at first, when we used Animate Object, it's specifically mentioned that the purple fire that was our necromantic magic seemed undirected. Then, when we used Alter Golem to create eyes by imagining we could see through them, the purple fire became predominantly consolidated in the golem's head, with two brighter points of light for eyes. And, when we cut the golem apart, the entire body and the head contained the same amount of vitality- one. Perhaps Vitality is what is needed in order to simulate senses and movement. Thus, in order to create muscles and the like, could we merely gather more vitality, insert it into the golem, and do the same thing, except imagine moving and the like? Could we even give the golem a necromantic mouth, allowing us to speak through it?
Post by: Child of Armok on August 26, 2012, 02:55:35 pm
Best story is best. I haven't come across a game that's provoked the same amount of sheer thought from me before, and I doubt I will again. Whenever you're ready, Monk, we'll be waiting. At least, I will be. :)
I wish we could revive a bit of that old arguing/debating we used to do, though. That was the most fun I can remember having since I stopped having theological debates with a classmate of mine two of three years back. Maybe if we continue to keep this thread alive with such critical thinking and arguments, it'll help Monk with ideas and keep the interest going until he's able to come back.
For example, I took a few moments to reread parts of the thread, and I noticed a few things I hadn't beforehand. I don't know if anyone mentioned this before- I can't remember that far back, and I haven't reread the entire thread yet, but here goes:
One, it's mentioned that "an unlikely band of heroes [rose] up to slay [Balkoth] in battle and [ended] his reign of tyranny,or somesuch." Such a tale would likely be well-documented, if exaggerated- why don't we look for it? Knowing how those heroes defeated Balkoth might help in our own endeavors, both offensive (against the other necromancers) and defensive (against those who might use those same techniques against us). Besides, I'm honestly curious about it.
Two, I noticed something about the rope doll- at first, when we used Animate Object, it's specifically mentioned that the purple fire that was our necromantic magic seemed undirected. Then, when we used Alter Golem to create eyes by imagining we could see through them, the purple fire became predominantly consolidated in the golem's head, with two brighter points of light for eyes. And, when we cut the golem apart, the entire body and the head contained the same amount of vitality- one. Perhaps Vitality is what is needed in order to simulate senses and movement. Thus, in order to create muscles and the like, could we merely gather more vitality, insert it into the golem, and do the same thing, except imagine moving and the like? Could we even give the golem a necromantic mouth, allowing us to speak through it?
We need to make the components of the doll real parts off a body. The doll's legs have the shape of legs but the doll doesn't "know" it are legs. Like you said we could do that by imagining we are the doll and do the thing we want him to be able to do. We tried it with the eyes but we never tried it with the muscles or brains and we keep thinking about: maybe so.... while we haven't tried the most obvious thing, i think we should trie to make a golem walk as soon monk is back.
Post by: Deep Waters on August 26, 2012, 03:08:11 pm
We need to make the components of the doll real parts off a body. The doll's legs have the shape of legs but the doll doesn't "know" it a
But then what's the point of making a golem in the first place? Why not just use a corpse? The only possible benefit I could see is to be able to make a whole zombie from the parts of several other corpses that by themselves are missing their own parts- like attaching the head of another ant to the beheaded ant at the beginning of the story. I doubt it would do much for our image as the Good Necromancer to play Dr. Frankenstein like that. Besides, Ropey hardly had anything that resembled eyes on its head when we gave it sight.
(Also, I like how we tend to refer to You are a Necromancer as a story rather than a game. I think that says something about it.)
Post by: lockman766 on August 26, 2012, 07:03:01 pm
Post by: adwarf on August 26, 2012, 07:10:06 pm
Post by: Descan on August 26, 2012, 07:23:17 pm
Post by: Child of Armok on August 27, 2012, 02:32:21 am
I don't mean to make them real arms but to make them arms like we made the eyes eyes. 'Cause the point of making is to make zombies who aren't made of flesh.We need to make the components of the doll real parts off a body. The doll's legs have the shape of legs but the doll doesn't "know" it a
But then what's the point of making a golem in the first place? Why not just use a corpse? The only possible benefit I could see is to be able to make a whole zombie from the parts of several other corpses that by themselves are missing their own parts- like attaching the head of another ant to the beheaded ant at the beginning of the story. I doubt it would do much for our image as the Good Necromancer to play Dr. Frankenstein like that. Besides, Ropey hardly had anything that resembled eyes on its head when we gave it sight.
(Also, I like how we tend to refer to You are a Necromancer as a story rather than a game. I think that says something about it.)
Post by: Deep Waters on August 27, 2012, 02:37:43 pm
I wonder... if we have to give our golems sight and muscles and the like, does that mean we can't create golems of any other shape but humanoid? After all, we hardly know what it means to be quadrupedal.
Post by: Baneling on August 27, 2012, 02:51:41 pm
Post by: Deep Waters on August 27, 2012, 02:52:25 pm
But then what about the giant bone monster from the Elven homeland? That didn't sound bipedal from what I remember. Maybe we're looking at it the wrong way?
Objection: We don't know what the Golgothans looked like. :3
Post by: Stonecutters on August 27, 2012, 06:48:06 pm
Has it been stated that golems can only be created in the form of humanoid or animal creatures? Remember the time with that rock? We invested vitality in it. While it didn't seem to have any intelligence, it was "alive" in a sense. Could we then have used that vitality to have it perform tasks? Say we invest a door with vitality. Using Animate Object and Alter Golem could we then "program" it to perform tasks? We could have it keep track of people entering and leaving, or even refuse entrance to predesignated individuals or groups. It could also have the side-affect of making the door stronger and resistant to damage. On a grand scale we could invest entire buildings, castles, or towns.
If the above holds true, it may be possible to create entire automated defense systems using golems. This would be even more useful if Necromatic Sight is required to view the enchantment without the casting of a Detect Vitality spell or some other magical detection.
I do recognize that my ideas would most likely take astronomical amounts of vitality. We could get around this somewhat if we find a way to store vitality in potions, or have people volunteer to give a small amount of their vitality. We could easily get the amount we need if we have enough volunteers. Prejudice against Necromancers will make finding volunteers difficult though.
EDIT: I would also like to vote for telling Omo about our powers at the next available opportunity. Preferably at the first night on the road from the city.
Post by: Deep Waters on August 27, 2012, 07:23:42 pm
I've been following this story for a while and I finally decided to contribute to this wonderful work of art. I'm willing to wait for updates from Monk, so long as he doesn't let this die.
Has it been stated that golems can only be created in the form of humanoid or animal creatures? Remember the time with that rock? We invested vitality in it. While it didn't seem to have any intelligence, it was "alive" in a sense. Could we then have used that vitality to have it perform tasks? Say we invest a door with vitality. Using Animate Object and Alter Golem could we then "program" it to perform tasks? We could have it keep track of people entering and leaving, or even refuse entrance to predesignated individuals or groups. It could also have the side-affect of making the door stronger and resistant to damage. On a grand scale we could invest entire buildings, castles, or towns.
If the above holds true, it may be possible to create entire automated defense systems using golems. This would be even more useful if Necromatic Sight is required to view the enchantment without the casting of a Detect Vitality spell or some other magical detection.
I do recognize that my ideas would most likely take astronomical amounts of vitality. We could get around this somewhat if we find a way to store vitality in potions, or have people volunteer to give a small amount of their vitality. We could easily get the amount we need if we have enough volunteers. Prejudice against Necromancers will make finding volunteers difficult though.
Nononononononono, you don't get it. First of all, it was never confirmed that vitality is what is needed to create the semblance of life in objects, aside from that inherent in being animated. That was my own hypothesis. Besides, while an imaginative concept, Alter Golem was never indicated to be able to bestow intelligence or programmable function; bestowing an object with "vitality eyes" is far removed from giving it the ability to differentiate between that creature and this creature, and is most definitely nothing like making an object more durable in any sense of the term.
As for the humanoid/animal argument, I didn't mean that we couldn't create golems in other shapes; I apologize for wording my sentence like that. What I meant was that, due to the implications of how we gave that golem sight- which was by imagining ourselves looking at the forest canopy as if we were the golem, and we had eyes- it makes me wonder if we're able to give a golem any ability that we ourselves are not capable of- we can't imagine what it's like the move a set of reverse-jointed legs because we don't have any, we can't imagine what it's like to see like a bee because we don't have bee vision, and because we can't imagine either of those scenarios- if the implication holds true- we can't bestow either of those abilities onto a golem. See what I mean here?
Post by: Stonecutters on August 27, 2012, 08:07:44 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Yes I understand, or at least think I do anyway. I was merely throwing out an idea I had regarding golems. All of my ideas will need experimented with to see if they have any truth or even work. I don't remember trying to bestow intelligence to the rope golem we made, or attempting to command it. The only change we made was "vitality eyes". If we are unable to Animate the golem to do tasks it is instructed to do, then why make them? It has already been established that zombies can be commanded, so golems, properly Altered, may be commandable too. If not, then its not very useful outside of direct control. I very much would like to see if investing vitality in an object changes the physical characteristics of it in any way. If its found to reinforce the object, Great! If not, to bad. Constructing golems is a field of necromancy that, so far, we've only just discovered. We can pass ideas around all day, but we have no idea if any of them will work without further experimentation.
As an experiment, I propose that we should try commanding a golem to do something after fashioning it.
Post by: RAM on August 27, 2012, 08:59:11 pm
P.S.
I want to go into the mountains and make friends with the giants and fairies...
Post by: lockman766 on August 27, 2012, 08:59:40 pm
Post by: Deep Waters on August 27, 2012, 09:10:45 pm
As for pretending to be a life mage as a long-term disguise, it's possible- so long as we don't ever run into someone who knew us as being terrible at life magic while in front of people who know us as a life mage. As long as we stay away from the general area of Elfplace, that should be fine though. As for the vitality enhancement bit- you gotta wonder... where do life mages get the vitality from? I mean, necromancers steal it from other living things- do life mages convert their mana directly into vitality? Is that what they do? Or do they merely manipulate what vitality is already there?
Post by: monk12 on August 27, 2012, 10:02:27 pm
What I meant was that we don't know if it's possible to, say, give a zombie/golem an order using the spell and then ending the spell, if the order would remain in place. Computers don't obey the imperatives of programs that are no longer there. On the other hand, it's true that we haven't tried to give golems intelligence.
Quote from: Chapter 1-5
With one final thought, you order the zombie to walk in circles, then break off the mental contact. The zombie obediently continues to circle on your floor- placing a shoe in its path causes it to move the center of its circle a bit to the left before continuing with its task.
From the bit with the crayfish when you first learned Command Undead. I'll just reiterate that each part is linked from the OP, for people who want the context to the above quote (or want to look up anything else for that matter.) I can neither confirm nor deny that this spell works differently when cast on Golems than it does on Zombies. Something to look into.
For the record, I'm also working REALLY hard not to go all Socratic on this thread. I'd rather pose the interesting questions through gameplay, after all, and watching y'all labor under misapprehensions just makes the Eureka moment more satisfying anyway. Why yes, I am a jerk, why do you ask? You've certainly raised some good points, though.
Post by: lockman766 on August 27, 2012, 10:03:02 pm
As for pretending to be a life mage as a long-term disguise, it's possible- so long as we don't ever run into someone who knew us as being terrible at life magic while in front of people who know us as a life mage. As long as we stay away from the general area of Elfplace, that should be fine though. As for the vitality enhancement bit- you gotta wonder... where do life mages get the vitality from? I mean, necromancers steal it from other living things- do life mages convert their mana directly into vitality? Is that what they do? Or do they merely manipulate what vitality is already there?My guess would be they manipulate what's already there. Now let me base a theory off that assumption. Now life mages can't Resurrect people because when someone dies they have no vitality. What if a necromancer right as the person was killed put vitality into him then a life mage used that vitality to heal that person could we actually preform a Resurrection?
Post by: Cellmonk on August 28, 2012, 01:01:33 am
I like this train of thought. Maybe that applies to Golems too. A life mage might be better able to sculpt a Golem's vitality into something usefull, while we provide the raw material.As for pretending to be a life mage as a long-term disguise, it's possible- so long as we don't ever run into someone who knew us as being terrible at life magic while in front of people who know us as a life mage. As long as we stay away from the general area of Elfplace, that should be fine though. As for the vitality enhancement bit- you gotta wonder... where do life mages get the vitality from? I mean, necromancers steal it from other living things- do life mages convert their mana directly into vitality? Is that what they do? Or do they merely manipulate what vitality is already there?My guess would be they manipulate what's already there. Now let me base a theory off that assumption. Now life mages can't Resurrect people because when someone dies they have no vitality. What if a necromancer right as the person was killed put vitality into him then a life mage used that vitality to heal that person could we actually preform a Resurrection?
Post by: Deep Waters on August 28, 2012, 01:05:19 am
I like this train of thought. Maybe that applies to Golems too. A life mage might be better able to sculpt a Golem's vitality into something usefull, while we provide the raw material.As for pretending to be a life mage as a long-term disguise, it's possible- so long as we don't ever run into someone who knew us as being terrible at life magic while in front of people who know us as a life mage. As long as we stay away from the general area of Elfplace, that should be fine though. As for the vitality enhancement bit- you gotta wonder... where do life mages get the vitality from? I mean, necromancers steal it from other living things- do life mages convert their mana directly into vitality? Is that what they do? Or do they merely manipulate what vitality is already there?My guess would be they manipulate what's already there. Now let me base a theory off that assumption. Now life mages can't Resurrect people because when someone dies they have no vitality. What if a necromancer right as the person was killed put vitality into him then a life mage used that vitality to heal that person could we actually preform a Resurrection?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Inithis on August 28, 2012, 08:45:10 am
I've been following this story for a while and I finally decided to contribute to this wonderful work of art. I'm willing to wait for updates from Monk, so long as he doesn't let this die.
Has it been stated that golems can only be created in the form of humanoid or animal creatures? Remember the time with that rock? We invested vitality in it. While it didn't seem to have any intelligence, it was "alive" in a sense. Could we then have used that vitality to have it perform tasks? Say we invest a door with vitality. Using Animate Object and Alter Golem could we then "program" it to perform tasks? We could have it keep track of people entering and leaving, or even refuse entrance to predesignated individuals or groups. It could also have the side-affect of making the door stronger and resistant to damage. On a grand scale we could invest entire buildings, castles, or towns.
If the above holds true, it may be possible to create entire automated defense systems using golems. This would be even more useful if Necromatic Sight is required to view the enchantment without the casting of a Detect Vitality spell or some other magical detection.
I do recognize that my ideas would most likely take astronomical amounts of vitality. We could get around this somewhat if we find a way to store vitality in potions, or have people volunteer to give a small amount of their vitality. We could easily get the amount we need if we have enough volunteers. Prejudice against Necromancers will make finding volunteers difficult though.
Nononononononono, you don't get it. First of all, it was never confirmed that vitality is what is needed to create the semblance of life in objects, aside from that inherent in being animated. That was my own hypothesis. Besides, while an imaginative concept, Alter Golem was never indicated to be able to bestow intelligence or programmable function; bestowing an object with "vitality eyes" is far removed from giving it the ability to differentiate between that creature and this creature, and is most definitely nothing like making an object more durable in any sense of the term.
As for the humanoid/animal argument, I didn't mean that we couldn't create golems in other shapes; I apologize for wording my sentence like that. What I meant was that, due to the implications of how we gave that golem sight- which was by imagining ourselves looking at the forest canopy as if we were the golem, and we had eyes- it makes me wonder if we're able to give a golem any ability that we ourselves are not capable of- we can't imagine what it's like the move a set of reverse-jointed legs because we don't have any, we can't imagine what it's like to see like a bee because we don't have bee vision, and because we can't imagine either of those scenarios- if the implication holds true- we can't bestow either of those abilities onto a golem. See what I mean here?
Coming back to this, we can know what it's like to have bee vision. Simply kill a bee, and command undead it. We get to see through it's eyes and use it's muscles. Therefore, we have examples to use in our golems!
Post by: RAM on August 28, 2012, 10:27:21 pm
Post by: Deep Waters on August 29, 2012, 12:21:05 pm
So it is just a matter of performing dubious medical experiments...
And dubious magical experiments. But hey, we were already doing/planning that anyway.
Post by: Cellmonk on August 29, 2012, 07:12:22 pm
So it is just a matter of performing dubious medical experiments...
And dubious magical experiments. But hey, we were already doing/planning that anyway.
I was thinking we might as well do some physics experiments too. find out the gravity of our planet. might factor into some of our decisions when it comes to potential flying machines/projectiles. Do we have a unit of measurement for time and length?
Post by: RAM on August 29, 2012, 10:23:59 pm
Post by: Inithis on August 30, 2012, 11:39:33 pm
Post by: RAM on August 31, 2012, 12:20:53 am
I think sitting down and telling him the story of how we found out about it also came up at one point...
Post by: Inithis on September 05, 2012, 12:47:51 am
Hope that is within my lifetime. XD
Post by: Parisbre56 on September 05, 2012, 06:11:43 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You could use a golem messenger (since human messengers would be hard to come by, slow and expensive) to keep in touch and ask about magic, once you figure out how golems work and if they can accept conditional orders. Simply take a piece of deadwood, carve it into a crude envelope, add wings and/or propellers, add eyes and ears, add muscles (or whatever golems use), add a brain and tell it to move west until it reaches it destination and then return once a certain word is spoken. You could say that you got it from a merchant who said it's dwarven to avoid some suspicion (even if she does decide to examine it and find it uses Death magic you could say you didn't know).
Once this is done you could do several upgrades to it, mostly to lower detection chance:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Anyway just a thought.
Great story. Keep up the good work.
Post by: monk12 on October 07, 2012, 09:58:53 pm
Spoiler: Author's Note (click to show/hide)
I say south. It is a forest, we are elves. Given that the locals are spooked, we should stick to the edge if we can, but stay close enough to seek refuge inside the forest without being seen. And we still haven't mentioned to Omo that we have an important secret to tell them...
Omo gestures at the map, tracing your possible paths with his finger. "If we leave now, we can probably make that second village before nightfall. After that, we'll be leaving civilization and need to pick our direction. Going straight along the road should take us two/three days, while detouring could take as long as five. The thing is, we don't know exactly where the Necromancer is- he could be well north or south of the main road and easy to avoid, or he could be squatting on the whole thing with a massive army stretched out to either side."
"Hm... I say we go South. Both ways seem dangerous, but we're both much more familiar with forests than hills. Besides, we can probably just skirt around the edge of the forest if we need to- you said it was only people who went into the forest that vanished, right?"
"Well, he wasn't very clear on the specifics, but that sounds reasonable. The villages closer to the forest probably have more information."
"Good enough- next stop, Aloclesno!"
Shouldering your pack, you accompany Omo down from the walls of the keep before purposefully leading him to the Eastern gate of Larathor. The enormous, iron-strapped wooden doors stand open, vigilant guards on the parapets and tower keeping watch on the traffic below. Most of the incoming travelers appear to be dispossessed farmers- refugees from the depredations of the Necromancer. You and Omo are the only travelers going East.
Go check the horse prices and get mounted if the price is at all reasonable. Ride on until out of sight of town, then stop and tell Omo what we need to tell him. If all goes well, he won't freak and we'll have time to go to the first village on our route and stop for the night. The next day, we ride on to the third village and detour south through the haunted forest. Sound good?
But yes, once we are beyond the edge of the forests, we will truly resume our experiments in earnest. There will be one last thing that needs to be done, though, first. Perhaps a days travel past the boundaries, we will tell Omo there is something we need to show and explain to him. Remind him that he knows us fairly well, and we wouldn't have kept something secret from him this long unless it was important - and to hear us out, in full, before making any decisions. But we hope he decides to stay with us - we need him, not just for his abilities to fight and survive off the land, but to be our ethical compass and a reminder of what we have to lose should we err. Tell him you will explain the rest once camp is set.
Once we've set up camp in a well secluded area, ask him to hunt us up something for dinner while you prepare your story. Once he returns, start at the beginning. Explain how your powers revealed themselves - and how if you didn't use them, they manifested themselves on their own. Ignoring them wasn't an option, so you attempted to learn about them. You don't need to go into details about the specific experiments, simply tell him of the things you learned, and of coming to terms with this. Of your internal conflict, and renewed determination to do something good with what you have realized is a gift. Pevo has told us that not all Necromancers are evil - merely, humans expressing the magic on their own without guidance corrupts an already dangerous discipline even further. Our nature, our life experience, allows us a different path - though we are wary of the dangers, and we wish to rely on Omo to keep us on the straight and narrow.
Then explain how, with these powers, we believe we have a chance to do what the Life Mages could not - remove the taint from our elven homeland. Perhaps it will be beyond our abilities, but if nothing else there is surely something valuable to be learned. If we can learn how to turn our powers in such a way so as to counter the undead, even better - we can use those powers defending out people, should it come to that.
At no point should we outright state "I'm a Necromancer, Omo." Doing so will only scare him.
Instead, we should tell him our story. How one day we went fishing and the fish came back to life. How we went to sleep one night and woke up from a nightmare to find that our bait had risen from the dead. How we discovered that the only way to keep from accidentally making undead was to exhaust our mana every day. Tell him that we're scared and we don't want to become a monster like the necromancers are, but we're also scared of telling anyone because they'd want to kill us. Explain that we've managed to learn enough to keep any accidents under control until we could destroy them, and that we hope that we can do something good with the power, something that will convince the world that we're not evil, not dangerous, and that, until then, we plan to hide our powers and keep out of trouble. If he hasn't attacked us yet, answer his questions as honestly as possible without incriminating ourselves. We've not done anything really wrong, so that should be easy.
Further, the golem thing probably isn't the best idea. Omo is sure to be weirded out by the idea that we've been using necromancy behind his back the whole trip. If he wants proof, and only if he wants proof, offer to raise a dead bug or something small like that. The golem can come later, when we're telling him about our plans to use necromancy to fight necromancy and defeat the evil necromancers by undoing their magic.
Though he clearly wanted to explore Larathor more, Omo quickly gets a spring in his step as he leads the way to the horizon. You, on the other hand... you do not relish telling Omo your secret. It's the kind of thing that would shock and appall any elf, and you've got no idea how your childhood friend will respond. You've been wanting to tell him for ages now, but the time just hasn't been right. Further waiting is intolerable- as soon as Larathor is out of sight!
You step off the road along with Omo as a group of armed horsemen ride by, Imperial Chargers cantering East on patrol. What are you going to say? It's not something you can really just blurt out- there needs to be a certain amount of buildup. You're going to shock him, but there's no need to figuratively slap him in the face with it.
You continue on your way after the soldiers pass. After an hour or so of walking, you finally decide you've put enough distance between yourself and Larathor- with no other travelers in sight, this is about as private as you're likely to be for the next few days.
"Hey, Omo? Omo, wait up. I, uh, I need to talk to you."
Omo looks back at you, slowing to a stop. "Yeah? What's up? Something's been eating you all afternoon."
"Yeah.. um. I, uh, might not have been entirely forthright with you about my reasons for leaving Yicelafo."
"I kinda figured- you've never been one for roughing it before."
"No kidding- my feet are... not important right now. So, uh, about three weeks ago some weird stuff started happening around me. I mean, really, it's been going on for months now- odd headaches, and waking up with no Mana, and... kinda being aware of Vitality around me. I just dismissed it at the time, figured I was drunk or eating some bad fish or something. But three weeks ago, that's when it started happening a lot and when I was out fishing I brought a fish back to life."
"You what?"
You raise your hands. "Just hear me out, okay? I did some experimenting, trying to figure out what happened, what my powers were. I found out that if I didn't use them, the powers would manifest themselves. So I brought back some more stuff, and learned more about controlling it, and I started preparing to leave Yicelafo since I knew my gift would be used best away from the Vale."
Omo looks horribly confused, scratching at his prominent chin. "Nym. What exactly are you saying?"
"I'm a... uh, Necromancer. I'm a Necromancer, Omo."
There is a long silence as Omo visibly processes your statement, his face bouncing from bewilderment, to surprise, to horror, to concern, and back to confusion.
"That's what I was doing spending so much time with Pevo, I wanted to learn more about Necromancers. He thinks they go bad because they're only human, and I'm an Elf, Omo! I can use my powers for good, and fight the evil Necromancers, and-"
"Stop! Just, hang on... have you said this to anyone else? Pevo? Elana?"
"No. You're the only one I've told. Nobody else suspects anything. But I can't lie to you, you're my best friend. We're traveling together, and you deserve to know."
"I just... You can't be a Necromancer! Think about it logically, Nym- Elves aren't Necromancers, it just doesn't happen!"
"Well, it did. I'm still going to the Sacred Grove- I think I can reverse whatever was done there. At the very least, I have a better shot than anyone else, since I can see Necromancy spells. Are... you going to come with me?"
"You're not joking. Are you joking? Because if you're joking, you've picked up a very good deadpan you've never had before."
"Omo, I'm dead serious. I am a Necromancer."
"No, Necromancers are big and scary with bone-studded armor, or skull-topped staffs, or something! You don't look like a Necromancer, you just look like Nym!"
"I'm still Nym! Necromancy is just part of who I am now."
"Listen, Nym, I'm your best friend. I've got your back- always have, always will. So you need to listen to what I'm about to say- you are crazy. Your eggs are scrambled. I don't know if you hit your head or what, but you need to go back to Yicelafo."
"Burn you, I'm not crazy!"
"Come on, Nym, think about it. What's more likely- something knocked what little sense you had loose, causing subtle changes in behavior, indecisiveness, and delusions of grandeur, or that you've somehow manifested Terrible and Fell Magics unknown to our entire race?"
"Grrr..."
You can't tell whether Omo is in denial or just dense (although knowing Omo, the latter is quite likely,) but this approach isn't going very well. Glancing around, there does not appear to be anyone else within sight of the road- perhaps a demonstration is in order, if you can't think of a better way to convince him. Unless you just feel like ignoring the issue until you're wandering a haunted forest...
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: Felius on October 07, 2012, 10:02:50 pm
Seriously though, do mention that you can prove it, choose something small and relatively harmless ( say, raising a bug or a fish), tell him what you are going to do, and then do it. Don't simply spring the demonstration on him.
Post by: bombzero on October 07, 2012, 10:25:17 pm
It's alive, IT'S ALIVE! MHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Seriously though, do mention that you can prove it, choose something small and relatively harmless ( say, raising a bug or a fish), tell him what you are going to do, and then do it. Don't simply spring the demonstration on him.
I approve of this plan.
Also Monk, congrats you are the first forum game host I have ever been even mildly excited to see return from a hiatus, most forum games lack an element of intrigue necessary to keep somebody interested for that long without updates.
Post by: Nicholas1024 on October 07, 2012, 11:21:38 pm
Post by: Xantalos on October 07, 2012, 11:22:56 pm
I'm in agreement, tell him that you're going to raise something relatively harmless back to life (a fish or whatever) and then do it.Also: Yes! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V7QWknxeFc)
Post by: Grek on October 07, 2012, 11:24:41 pm
It's alive, IT'S ALIVE! MHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!This.
Seriously though, do mention that you can prove it, choose something small and relatively harmless ( say, raising a bug or a fish), tell him what you are going to do, and then do it. Don't simply spring the demonstration on him.
Post by: The Alchemist on October 07, 2012, 11:51:06 pm
It's alive, IT'S ALIVE! MHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!This.
Seriously though, do mention that you can prove it, choose something small and relatively harmless ( say, raising a bug or a fish), tell him what you are going to do, and then do it. Don't simply spring the demonstration on him.
Post by: NoahTophatz on October 07, 2012, 11:56:55 pm
It's alive, IT'S ALIVE! MHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!this but prepare to run if he looks like he might get violent but he also might faint so prepare for that too
Seriously though, do mention that you can prove it, choose something small and relatively harmless ( say, raising a bug or a fish), tell him what you are going to do, and then do it. Don't simply spring the demonstration on him.
Post by: Zako on October 08, 2012, 12:07:49 am
Make sure that he remains calm throughout the demonstration, cause if he panicks, that would be really bad. Make sure he knows that you're not evil or have any intention of going on a rampage or doing any of the traditional necromancer stuff that gives them a bad reputation, like making armies of zombies and stuff.
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 08, 2012, 12:16:42 am
Good to have you back, Monk.
More seriously - can his sight allow him to see some of our "not-immediately-mark-us-as-necromancer" abilities? Most of the humans don't have magic sight, but we could still see necromancy objects with it, right?
Post by: Fireiy on October 08, 2012, 12:48:23 am
Glad to see this back!Yeah, he does have training in fighting after all, and you have none.
Make sure that he remains calm throughout the demonstration, cause if he panicks, that would be really bad. Make sure he knows that you're not evil or have any intention of going on a rampage or doing any of the traditional necromancer stuff that gives them a bad reputation, like making armies of zombies and stuff.
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 08, 2012, 02:47:57 am
Post by: Ancre on October 08, 2012, 04:48:04 am
Also this :
It's alive, IT'S ALIVE! MHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Seriously though, do mention that you can prove it, choose something small and relatively harmless ( say, raising a bug or a fish), tell him what you are going to do, and then do it. Don't simply spring the demonstration on him.
And like everyone said, let's make sure he's calm and be ready to run for the hills or something.
Post by: V-Norrec on October 08, 2012, 10:08:08 am
Post by: Child of Armok on October 08, 2012, 11:37:21 am
I cherish this, my first post in epic thread (bread?). We don't have to create a zombie in front of him, we can make this much simpler. Suck the vitality from the grass around us a then put the vitality in a rock or something. The eldritch glowing of the rock and the dead grass should be proof enough. It should also show we are more thoughtful than some zombie raising machine. Again warn him as to what we are about to do, before doing anything.No,
Elves hate it when you hurt plants or something. And a patch of brown grass is pretty evil looking,not?
But i like the idee of not making a zombie. Can't make a golem of sticks (dead wood) and a pit of rope (or something else)?
And: YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEJJJJ it's alive!!!
Post by: Felius on October 08, 2012, 11:39:14 am
Post by: V-Norrec on October 08, 2012, 11:51:07 am
Post by: Ancre on October 08, 2012, 01:20:05 pm
A zombie might be a bit much, but we will experiment on zombies eventually, so I think it's better to show it right away rather than try to push things gradually. It might give a bad impression, since, if we introduce bit by bit the more "morally ambiguous" spells, he might wonder where will we effectively stop.
Post by: Grek on October 08, 2012, 01:27:54 pm
Post by: joemoben on October 08, 2012, 06:55:12 pm
So glad this is back, although I fully endorse this plan -
It's alive, IT'S ALIVE! MHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Seriously though, do mention that you can prove it, choose something small and relatively harmless ( say, raising a bug or a fish), tell him what you are going to do, and then do it. Don't simply spring the demonstration on him.
This isn't something quite as frightening as killing an area of wildlife around you, but shows that we definitively are a necromancer. Also, definitely be sure to show that it's still you. Yes, you are a necromancer, but that doesn't mean you are a mass murdering machine. That's just about all I can think of for now.
Post by: RAM on October 08, 2012, 09:06:11 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 08, 2012, 09:59:27 pm
Post by: Grek on October 08, 2012, 10:54:29 pm
Post by: Descan on October 09, 2012, 11:29:02 am
Really, I don't think it will be necessary to provide proof, it isn't exactly something that we are likely to lie about.he doesn't believe us, so...
Post by: Angle on October 09, 2012, 07:05:22 pm
Post by: Deep Waters on October 09, 2012, 08:39:59 pm
Definitely ask him what he would accept as evidence, and show him that. Unless he demands we do something crazy, in which case we should try and talk him into something simpler. Also remember that we have yet to animate a golem that can actually move on it's own, although that's mostly because we haven't tried.
+1
Post by: lockman766 on October 09, 2012, 10:23:44 pm
Definitely ask him what he would accept as evidence, and show him that. Unless he demands we do something crazy, in which case we should try and talk him into something simpler. Also remember that we have yet to animate a golem that can actually move on it's own, although that's mostly because we haven't tried.Here here.
Post by: Endymion107 on October 09, 2012, 10:50:58 pm
Definitely ask him what he would accept as evidence, and show him that. Unless he demands we do something crazy, in which case we should try and talk him into something simpler. Also remember that we have yet to animate a golem that can actually move on it's own, although that's mostly because we haven't tried.
I vote for this.
Added benefit of making whatever we are going to use as an example less horrifying for him, since he suggested it.
Post by: Angle on October 09, 2012, 10:57:06 pm
Added benefit of making whatever we are going to use as an example less horrifying for him, since he suggested it.Well, at least in theory.
Post by: joemoben on October 09, 2012, 11:05:02 pm
Definitely ask him what he would accept as evidence, and show him that. Unless he demands we do something crazy, in which case we should try and talk him into something simpler. Also remember that we have yet to animate a golem that can actually move on it's own, although that's mostly because we haven't tried.
I actually choose this one. Easing him into this is the best way, even if it isn't possible to be ease someone into this. All in all I think Angle's plan is quite acute, and while Omo might react a bit obtusely, It's the best way.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Ancre on October 10, 2012, 03:57:58 am
Definitely ask him what he would accept as evidence, and show him that. Unless he demands we do something crazy, in which case we should try and talk him into something simpler. Also remember that we have yet to animate a golem that can actually move on it's own, although that's mostly because we haven't tried.
+1. This is an excellent suggestion.
Post by: Felius on October 10, 2012, 08:28:30 am
Definitely ask him what he would accept as evidence, and show him that. Unless he demands we do something crazy, in which case we should try and talk him into something simpler. Also remember that we have yet to animate a golem that can actually move on it's own, although that's mostly because we haven't tried.Sounds good to me. We still probably should explain more or less the extent of our powers and that we don't know everything we can do with it yet, so he can choose something we can do for a demonstration.
Post by: monk12 on October 11, 2012, 03:03:01 pm
It's alive, IT'S ALIVE! MHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Seriously though, do mention that you can prove it, choose something small and relatively harmless ( say, raising a bug or a fish), tell him what you are going to do, and then do it. Don't simply spring the demonstration on him.
"Listen, just-"
"Omo, I'm a Necromancer. It isn't that hard to prove. C'mon, help me find a bug."
"A bug?"
"Y'know, vermin. Oh hang on, here we go."
Resting your pack on the ground, you carefully lean over the anthill you've discovered by the side of the road. Isolating a nice big soldier ant, you pop off its head and carry the twitching corpse over to Omo.
"Here- this ant is dead, right? Watch. I'm going to zombify it."
"Nym..."
"Shush! The first zombie I made was an ant just like this one, right down to the severed head..."
It has been a while since you cast Raise Zombie, but the spell goes off just as you expected; the familiar rush of icy energy surging from you to the ant, the ant writhing and standing up, a small purple flame taking the place of its head.
Omo's eyes bug out as the ant begins picking a path across your outstretched hand, but you are distracted from his reaction by the brief moment of vertigo associated with gaining a level- your Vitality goes up a little! As you gaze upon your creation, you discover that your Necromantic Sight seems to have changed- you now see in more detail. Not only do you sense the Necromantic Energy animating the corpse, but you can see how it twists and turns throughout the body. Most of the Necromantic Energy (as well as the rather insignificant amount of Vitality) is concentrated in the head, but with your new sight you can sense a tiny, intricate network of Necromantic Energy woven through the major parts of the ant's body- the legs and the core of the body, mostly. Further, your newly refined senses inform you that the Vitality of the ant is contained within that network. Encapsulated by it, would perhaps be-
Your curious examination of the tiny ant and its tiny parts is rudely interrupted when Omo regains enough composure to speak.
"Blood and bloody flaming ashes, Nym! You brought that flaming ant back to life!"
Seeing that you've made your point, you crush the ant in your hands and let the body fall to the ground. "Yes, I did. As I've been saying for the past five minutes now, I am a Necromancer."
Omo stares at the fallen ant before helplessly looking back to you. "Yeah, but... oh, burn me Nym, my best friend can't be a Necromancer!"
"You keep saying that, yes. I'm... very sorry if I can't be your best friend now."
"Burn me, Nym, I didn't mean it like-"
"Then how did you mean it, huh? You're still my best friend, but I can't very well stop being a Necromancer. I'm not evil- I'm going to find a way to use my powers for good. That's why I'm going to the Sacred Grove- to try and do some good. So... are you going to come with me? Please?"
"Bloody... you can't just spring this on a guy, you know? Just... gimme some time to think about it."
Omo slowly continues down the road, and you hastily grab your pack and run up to walk alongside him. Omo keeps his gaze on the road, ignoring your attempts to catch his eye. With a sigh, you resign yourself to silence for the next leg of your journey.
Before long, you begin passing more and more farms as you approach the first village on the highway. It isn't much of a village- a couple brick inns and a stone temple surrounded by houses. A single watch tower to the East serves as the only defense for the villagers- certainly nothing capable of repelling a zombie horde. That said, there are plenty of farmers and villagers going about their business. Although the atmosphere is tense and worried, nobody seems to be on the brink of abandoning their town and fleeing to Larathor.
Omo doesn't stop here, so neither do you, and you quickly pass beyond village limits. Once you have a semblance of privacy on the lonely road, Omo breaks the silence.
"So... have you raised a lot of zombies, then?"
"Not really, actually. Some bugs. A fish. A tree, by accident."
"...you accidentally zombified a tree?"
"Yeah, well, this is harder than it looks. I don't really know what I'm doing, and every time I learn something I just find there's a dozen other things I don't know about. Like, okay, apparently I can make golems? I stuffed a bunch of Vitality in a rock, anyway."
"Weird."
"Yeah."
The next dozen steps pass in silence.
"Okay, so, do you know anything about the other Necromancers?"
"No. Well, I know what you know- they're out there and apparently evil. Well, actually, have we heard of any atrocities being performed by the Pirate King?"
"Nothing specific, I guess. I just kinda did the math that Necromancers equal Evil."
"I can tell you that isn't true, so I'm not willing to write off the Pirate King so quickly. He's ambitious, maybe, but that doesn't mean he has to be evil."
"It's bloody strange though- there being three Necromancers, I mean. Two of them active at the same time, alright, I can believe that. But three?"
"I don't know, Omo."
A family of farmers approaches from the East, their worldly possessions piled high on a broad, sturdy wagon. You exchange a friendly nod as their wagon clatters past, on their way to refuge in Larathor. You wait until they are well out of earshot before resuming your conversation.
"So... convinced I'm not crazy and evil yet?"
"Heh. Well, you've always been crazy."
"And..."
"And I don't really believe you have an evil bone in your body, no."
"So are you coming with me? I could really use a friend."
"Burn me, Nym. Yeah, I'll go along with you. Somebody's got to keep you out of troub- gah!"
Your tackle hug catches him a bit off-guard, and he shoves you off with a laugh. You spend the remainder of your travel speaking of inconsequential things, simply enjoying one another's company.
As the sun sets, you arrive at the next village. Unlike the last one, this village is surrounded with a low earthen wall and moat- judging by the soldiers still driving sharpened stakes into the wall, its construction is recent. The road is barricaded with overturned carts and heavy barrels, forming an impromptu gate. The soldiers on guard wave you through with little more than a cursory glance before returning to their nightly preparations.
The whole village is full of soldiers- although there does seem to be some villagers moving about, much of the traffic is off-duty infantry. Entering one of the inns, you find the common room entirely populated by soldiers, with the innkeeper and a few serving wenches struggling to keep up with the demands for food and booze. With a little difficulty, you flag down the innkeeper.
"Excuse me? I'm guessing all your rooms are taken by soldiers, but do you have any lodging available? A spot by the fire, maybe?"
"Well, if you want a spot by the fire I can oblige you later tonight when the crowd thins out, but as it happens I do have rooms available for rent. Most of the soldiers are quartered in abandoned houses, leaving me free to run my business."
"Oh, well that's a relief! Yes, we'd like a room and a hot meal, then. I take it these soldiers are here to fight the Necromancer, then?"
"They're here to fight zombies, anyway. There are attacks every few nights, either here or out in the countryside."
"Why are the soldiers here? Why aren't they at the next village down the road?"
"Is that where you're bound? I hope you don't have any family out that way- most of the villagers died in the early attacks, and the ones that survived fled. The village is abandoned now, and in truth most farms East of here are abandoned as well. The Imperial Army patrols every night, but if they're ten minutes away when the dead knock on your door they can't do much other than bury you afterwards."
"I see. Well, we'll figure something out. Now, our rooms?"
For two silver pieces, you get to enjoy a bowl of stew and all the bawdy soldier songs you can stand. Unsurprisingly, it turns out Omo can stand the singing much better than you can, and you retire early to your room. It's not quite as fine as the room you stayed at in Larathor, but the sheets are clean and the blankets thick. Throwing a quilt on the floor for Omo, you burrow into the narrow bed and quickly fall asleep.
You are sitting by your favorite fishing hole. It's dark, but that's alright- the fishes glow purple, and they're easy to spot. You idly dip your bare feet in the pond- the water is icy cold, but it doesn't bother you. Pulling your shirt over your head, you cast it aside before slipping into the water.
Your feet slap on cold stone as you arrive. This is a strange room- you don't think you've been here before. A small wooden table with two chairs stand before you- across the stone chamber, a large leather sofa is seated directly before a roaring fireplace. Smoothing your nightgown, you glance up at the ceiling before quickly averting your gaze- the ceiling is Dangerous.
Despite the fire, this room is cold, and you look for a way out. There don't appear to be any windows or doors, however. Looking behind you, you see only the same wall as the rest of the chamber.
"Well it's about time!"
Startled, you quickly turn around. Standing with her back to you on the other side of the sofa is a young, red-haired human woman wearing a blue dress embroidered with little black skulls along the sleeves. She turns slowly, cradling a glass of wine in her fingers.
"You know, I thought it was odd when Mokra told me another Necromancer would arise- it wasn't in the plan, y'know? And then you took so long to-"
Her emerald green eyes widen in shock when she sees you.
"You're an elf maiden?!? An elf. Well that explains a lot, doesn't it..."
Regaining her composure, she sets her glass down on a table (there wasn't a table over there before, was there?) and walks around the sofa. As she does so, she suddenly turns into a tall blond elven man wearing a fine midnight blue silk shirt and loose green pants, smiling as he strolls over you.
"How- how do you know I'm a Necromancer? Where are we? Who are you?"
"Only Necromancers can be in this room- I built it myself, y'know. Very detailed work, dreamscaping. It's much more difficult to build than it is to destroy, and I think I'm quite good at it! Anyway, I brought you here because I myself am a Necromancer. I want you to join me, so I can teach you our art. What's your name? Where are you?"
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Author's Note (click to show/hide)
Post by: bombzero on October 11, 2012, 03:10:35 pm
Who is she?
What are her motives?
Who does she consider friend and enemy?
Post by: Felius on October 11, 2012, 03:19:03 pm
Stall. Stall until you can't stall anymore. Try to sound him about his objectives and philosophy. Discreetly try to discover if he is evil. And stall. If he shows any signs of liking to rant about technical issues, try to get him to rant about the technical aspects of the dreamscape, so you can work on defending yourself. And stall.
Also remember, there are three things to worry here: What he seems to be saying, what he is actually saying, and what he actually wants. Do not assume those are the same. Be careful and wary of him for now. And stall.
First thing, try to play cool and start simply showing curiosity about him contacting you on the dreamscape, how he did it, why now, etc. Afterwards, stall some more.
Do not commit to anything for now. If he starts pushing you, ask for some time to think, everything is too new for you, and quite shocking. If he gives you the opportunity, do be relatively open to him start teaching you some basics and everything, or at least for him to tell you about necromancy as he knows it.
P.S. Did our mana did not grow at all this level, or is that a typo?
Post by: V-Norrec on October 11, 2012, 03:28:22 pm
Oh shit! shitshitshti!
Stall. Stall until you can't stall anymore. Try to sound him about his objectives and philosophy. Discreetly try to discover if he is evil. And stall. If he shows any signs of liking to rant about technical issues, try to get him to rant about the technical aspects of the dreamscape, so you can work on defending yourself. And stall.
Also remember, there are three things to worry here: What he seems to be saying, what he is actually saying, and what he actually wants. Do not assume those are the same. Be careful and wary of him for now. And stall.
First thing, try to play cool and start simply showing curiosity about him contacting you on the dreamscape, how he did it, why now, etc. Afterwards, stall some more.
Do not commit to anything for now. If he starts pushing you, ask for some time to think, everything is too new for you, and quite shocking. If he gives you the opportunity, do be relatively open to him start teaching you some basics and everything, or at least for him to tell you about necromancy as he knows it.
P.S. Did our mana did not grow at all this level, or is that a typo?
It's a she, which means she can't be the Necromancer that's threatening us right now, well not directly threatening but all the same, we should probably assume this is the 'Pirate King', since this Necromancer IIRC is confirmed male.
Post by: monk12 on October 11, 2012, 03:37:27 pm
P.S. Did our mana did not grow at all this level, or is that a typo?
Not a typo.
It's a she, which means she can't be the Necromancer that's threatening us right now, well not directly threatening but all the same, we should probably assume this is the 'Pirate King', since this Necromancer IIRC is confirmed male.
Curo Nightroar is confirmed male.
Post by: bombzero on October 11, 2012, 03:39:45 pm
Oh shit! shitshitshti!
Stall. Stall until you can't stall anymore. Try to sound him about his objectives and philosophy. Discreetly try to discover if he is evil. And stall. If he shows any signs of liking to rant about technical issues, try to get him to rant about the technical aspects of the dreamscape, so you can work on defending yourself. And stall.
Also remember, there are three things to worry here: What he seems to be saying, what he is actually saying, and what he actually wants. Do not assume those are the same. Be careful and wary of him for now. And stall.
First thing, try to play cool and start simply showing curiosity about him contacting you on the dreamscape, how he did it, why now, etc. Afterwards, stall some more.
Do not commit to anything for now. If he starts pushing you, ask for some time to think, everything is too new for you, and quite shocking. If he gives you the opportunity, do be relatively open to him start teaching you some basics and everything, or at least for him to tell you about necromancy as he knows it.
P.S. Did our mana did not grow at all this level, or is that a typo?
It's a she, which means she can't be the Necromancer that's threatening us right now, well not directly threatening but all the same, we should probably assume this is the 'Pirate King', since this Necromancer IIRC is confirmed male.
Yeah man, kinda overreacting there. much better to just ask direct and overt questions for now, we have no reason to assume she's an enemy or you're just essentially taking the side of those humans who would kill US for being a necromancer just on that fact alone.
Post by: Descan on October 11, 2012, 03:50:14 pm
"Join me" = "Worship me", ya?
Post by: Felius on October 11, 2012, 04:08:24 pm
It's not paranoia if they are after you, and as a necromancer, they are after you by definition. CONSTANT VIGILANCE!
Post by: bombzero on October 11, 2012, 04:12:36 pm
She didn't actually -say- she was another necromancer. I think she's some sort of god? She DID change into a he-elf when she found we were she-elfy.
"Join me" = "Worship me", ya?
An interesting theory.
Post by: Ancre on October 11, 2012, 04:56:26 pm
(Also, who's Mokra? ??? )
Post by: Grek on October 11, 2012, 05:06:47 pm
That is alot of "probably" and "maybe" though.
We should probably go ahead and say that our name is Nym, but hold off on telling this mysterious person where we are until we find out a few things:
"Who are you and who is Morka?"
"Are you also teaching the other two necromancers?"
"What are you two planning to do with the necromancers?"
The first one should give us some idea of what's going on if they answer it. The second one should give some idea of whether they're evil - whoever is behind Curo Nightroar is probably a bad guy unless we're seriously misinformed about what's going on. And asking what their plan is before agreeing to learn from this mysterious person is just good sense.
Post by: joemoben on October 11, 2012, 05:21:13 pm
Post by: Dracken on October 11, 2012, 05:29:14 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 11, 2012, 05:45:52 pm
We know nothing of this situation - for all we know, we could legitimately be in danger here, so there is no need to react harshly, but remain guarded. We know nothing of what's going on, and giving formation freely could be dangerous - and considering Necromancy's reputation, distrust could be expected.
We can't even trust what we're seeing - there is no guaranteeing this person is female, male, or even alive. They control this place, clearly.
Find out who they are and what's going on with the other Necromancer's, and then we'll consider answering questions - right now knowledge is the only bit of leverage we have, and we don't have much.
Post by: Descan on October 11, 2012, 05:51:33 pm
I think we should go by the Redeemer. We're redeeming the old elven lands, we're redeeming necromancy, and possibly even redeeming elvenkind, by taking an active part in the world instead of sitting back and letting it flow past.
Post by: Deep Waters on October 11, 2012, 07:30:20 pm
She didn't actually -say- she was another necromancer. I think she's some sort of god? She DID change into a he-elf when she found we were she-elfy.
"Join me" = "Worship me", ya?
She did say that she was a necromancer, but she didn't say she was a necromancer like us. It's possible that she's a necromantic god, but since there's been no mention of gods so far, I very much doubt it- religions in this world seem to focus on concepts such as Water and Order, not actual deities, although those concepts may have personifications for all we know.
As for the transformation, isn't strange that she made such a blatant demonstration of her powers, at least in this supposed dream realm? (She never actually said we were in there, just implied it strongly.) That's not exactly conducive to deception. There are two most likely reasons for this: Either it's such an ingrained habit that she simply didn't think of it (in which case, she must indeed be skilled at 'dreamscaping', and, if she's telling the truth about it being as difficult as it is, she's also probably a very skilled mage, as well) or she wants us to be aware of her abilities. Perhaps this is a forewarning, so that we don't try anything funny- necromancers of the past seem to lend credence to this theory. On the other hand, it could be a literal demonstration- an attempt to both quail us and get us curious about her offer.
Either way, caution is the best course to take here- but don't get so paranoid that we disregard her without hearing what she has to say, or worse, make an enemy of her. We don't want to take a gift horse without looking in its mouth, not in our situation, but we also don't want to lose what may be our only opportunity to learn necromancy from someone who seems to know what they're doing, instead of through vague secondhand accounts and dangerous experimentation.
EDIT: As for a title, I, personally, think that's a little egoistic at this point, but whatevs.
Post by: bombzero on October 11, 2012, 07:46:18 pm
Our title should be Good, obviously. Not Evil. It should show that we're here to help, not hurt. That we're here to fix the past wrongs.
I think we should go by the Redeemer. We're redeeming the old elven lands, we're redeeming necromancy, and possibly even redeeming elvenkind, by taking an active part in the world instead of sitting back and letting it flow past.
Heh, I like that title.
Post by: Descan on October 11, 2012, 07:51:14 pm
Post by: RAM on October 11, 2012, 09:26:57 pm
As far as suggestions for our current situation are concerned... The only instruction I am inclined to furnish is... PANIC!!!
Post by: Felius on October 11, 2012, 09:28:09 pm
Well, it seems likely that the two known necromancers are human male, and our host commenced as human female, and now they are elven male,We are an elven girl. And yes, it does create some interesting implications about our ex, and the gender roles in elven society... :P
Post by: Deep Waters on October 11, 2012, 09:29:18 pm
As far as suggestions for our current situation are concerned... The only instruction I am inclined to furnish is... PANIC!!!
:|
Well, it seems likely that the two known necromancers are human male, and our host commenced as human female, and now they are elven male,We are an elven girl. And yes, it does create some interesting implications about our ex, and the gender roles in elven society... :P
You do not know how happy I was when that came about. :3
Post by: Angle on October 12, 2012, 12:06:19 am
Oh shit! shitshitshti!
Stall. Stall until you can't stall anymore. Try to sound him about his objectives and philosophy. Discreetly try to discover if he is evil. And stall. If he shows any signs of liking to rant about technical issues, try to get him to rant about the technical aspects of the dreamscape, so you can work on defending yourself. And stall.
Also remember, there are three things to worry here: What he seems to be saying, what he is actually saying, and what he actually wants. Do not assume those are the same. Be careful and wary of him for now. And stall.
First thing, try to play cool and start simply showing curiosity about him contacting you on the dreamscape, how he did it, why now, etc. Afterwards, stall some more.
Do not commit to anything for now. If he starts pushing you, ask for some time to think, everything is too new for you, and quite shocking. If he gives you the opportunity, do be relatively open to him start teaching you some basics and everything, or at least for him to tell you about necromancy as he knows it.
P.S. Did our mana did not grow at all this level, or is that a typo?
Ask ALL the questions. And stall, yes, stall. Avoid commitment. Try and test our host's temperament - ask a question that's just a very little bit rude or thoughtless, and see how they react. Do they get annoyed with us? Do they not notice? Do they turn the other cheek? etc.
Post by: killerhellhound on October 12, 2012, 05:11:22 am
Post by: Nicholas1024 on October 12, 2012, 10:48:38 am
Personally, if I were the mod I'd retcon that to just being your (other) best friend, but whatever.As far as suggestions for our current situation are concerned... The only instruction I am inclined to furnish is... PANIC!!!
:|Well, it seems likely that the two known necromancers are human male, and our host commenced as human female, and now they are elven male,We are an elven girl. And yes, it does create some interesting implications about our ex, and the gender roles in elven society... :P
You do not know how happy I was when that came about. :3
Anyway, I think reply with first name only (giving ourselves a title at this point is just being egotistical), and just discreetly ask questions to see where they stand.
Post by: V-Norrec on October 12, 2012, 11:06:29 am
I think we should be a respectful this could be a god and there is no doubt that she is a lot more powerful than us (someone that nearly died raising a tree) and a bored god that can’t do anything at the moment will better to learn from a bunch of dusty books or experiments that can kill us.
Post by: RAM on October 12, 2012, 12:02:58 pm
P.S.
Nuclear ferrets.
P.P.S.
Aaaaaargh, it is coming for us!!!
Post by: monk12 on October 12, 2012, 04:27:40 pm
Ask further questions.
Who is she?
What are her motives?
Who does she consider friend and enemy?
Interesting. I'm in the "assume nothing, and ask questions" camp. Be guarded, though. Since we don't know if she's nice or evil, let's not take any chances.
(Also, who's Mokra? ??? )
Initial impression: This is the ghost of some necromancer from Golgotha. Morka is probably another ghost. Their plan appears to involve giving a couple of people necromantic powers and then waiting for them to do necromancy in front of someone before contacting them via magical dream ghost vision things. Their ultimate goal may be to bring back Golgotha.
That is alot of "probably" and "maybe" though.
We should probably go ahead and say that our name is Nym, but hold off on telling this mysterious person where we are until we find out a few things:
"Who are you and who is Morka?"
"Are you also teaching the other two necromancers?"
"What are you two planning to do with the necromancers?"
The first one should give us some idea of what's going on if they answer it. The second one should give some idea of whether they're evil - whoever is behind Curo Nightroar is probably a bad guy unless we're seriously misinformed about what's going on. And asking what their plan is before agreeing to learn from this mysterious person is just good sense.
Taking a discreet half-step away from the stranger, you respond.
"My name is Nym. Who are you, and who is Morka?"
He smiles. "You've answered one half of one of my questions, and want two of your own? Ha! Your suspicion does you credit, considering the world we live in. My name is Fale Packunion, and Morka is my god. Your god too, if you know what's good for you- Morka is the most powerful god of Death in Urak. The only one now, really."
"Yeah, well, forgive me if I'm not up to date on the pantheon of a dead race. So, what do you want with me? Have you approached the other necromancers?"
Fale claps happily. "Perceptive! I like that- I practically had to rub Nightroar's face in it before he saw the big picture. Yes, Morka and I have been working to create a world safe for Necromancers. You should know better than anyone that the other denizens of Urak hate and fear us- admit you're a Necromancer, and bam, you've got an army on your doorstep! They're jealous of our power- one of us is worth a multitude of them! But this time, there isn't just one of us. Working together, we can ascend to our rightful place as masters of Urak!"
"So your eventual goal is world domination, then?"
"It's all or nothing for us, Nym- no quarter asked, and none given. That's been the way of the world ever since the Golgothan War, us against them. So! I've answered your questions in good faith- will you answer mine? Will you work with us, and share our knowledge? Where are you?"
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: Grek on October 12, 2012, 04:39:57 pm
Post by: Ancre on October 12, 2012, 04:52:41 pm
So we can't say yes, and we can't say no either, it looks dangerous. We should find a way to at least remain neutral, I guess ? A "we have the same goals but different methods" kind of deal ? Any association is going to be bad for us in the long run, and while we're going to clash eventually, the later the better. We could try to "join them" only to back-stab them later, but we're supposed to be nice, I don't like that option. So ...
... Yeah, I don't really know what to do ...
Post by: Felius on October 12, 2012, 05:08:44 pm
Anyway, probe her more. And STALL!
Let's go with something of the such:
"You ask as if you can't simply rip it out of my head.", "You ask as if you needed me to tell you that.", "You entered my head, can't you simply see it?" or something of the like. Overestimating their capabilities is nice and their reaction to implying that they could know it without us telling him might tell quite a bit about what is the actual limit to their powers.
Probe her on the "the only one now, really." part as well. The only one, now? Were there more?
We also have no evidence but her word that she really there on behalf of Morka, which we also only have her word as evidence that he is indeed a death god. She isn't outright hostile to our paranoia, so this probably won't really cause offense.
But anyway, their goals are pretty clearly evil. They want to conquer the world, kill all those who oppose and possibly some more (necromancers... They just need a viable breeding population to keep them supplied with raw materials). They try to dress their stated goal as creating a safe world, but the real stated objective is to conquer the world, and put the necromancers in power, period. We also don't know if she will actually share power or just use us as dragon and/or cross us the moment we are not useful to her anymore. Outright refusing and being hostile is probably unhealthy. Stall. STALL! Stall until you grow old and gray (yes, you are an elf, that will take a long time, so? :P). Show reluctance. Don't be outright hostile, do not do the whole swearing you will never join then, etc. Basically do not burn any bridges. While, yes, we do not intend to ever cross them the time they expend courting and trying to convert us is time they don't spend trying to hunt and kill us. And that is something to worry about.
There are very few necromancers, and each apparently is a incredibly useful and grand resource. They are unlikely to give up on recruiting us even if we don't join up immediately, but that changes if we are apparently directing opposing them and do not show signs of changing our mind. So, STALL! Ask for time. Show reluctance. Ask to be given the opportunity to see more of the world with your own eyes first and confirm there's no chance of peaceful existence (framing it something like: "Let me see by myself that my "foolish naive dreams" are indeed foolish naive dreams."). Stall, stall, stall. Stall until strange aeons come and death itself dies. STALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!
If they absolutely corner us and force a decision now, without any possibility to avoid it, we can see what possibilities we have in hand, but I'd say put a price for our help: Namely, leaving the elven lands alone. Not even if the elf attack the necromancers they should be attacked on their lands. Elves outside them might either be fair game or protected unless they attack first, but either way, the elven lands should be safe. Still, don't make the decision unless we absolutely have no other option. Instead, stall, stall, stall!
Anyway, on the morning inform Omo of the situation, and tell him you need to start working on becoming able to oppose them, which including training, researching and building a power base. Work on doing so. We need to work on overtime to be able to be in a position where we can actually declare opposition to the other necromancers. If the necromancers can somehow scry us and see that we tell them that we are doing so so can keep him as our asset for now and that we are working on creating a power base so we are safe from those who would hunt us. Stall some more. Also, research old tomes and etc. to discover if there is any "good" death god, or at least a neutral one. We might need a god to handle another.
If the necromancers start to actively hunt us and seems to manage to know where we are, run back to the elven lands. The council can probably use this information. And yes, reveal ourselves to them. Put ourselves as a possible weapon against the others and pray that they don't decide to kill us them. Try to get our mother, father, mentor and ex-girlfriend in our side before actually revealing everything of course.
Oh, and have I mentioned that we should stall? At the very least put it to the shock and ask for time.
Post by: Grek on October 12, 2012, 05:46:54 pm
We should say that A] We agree with their goal of making the world safe for necromancers, but B] we can't agree to be on the same side as someone like Curo Nightroar since his sort of necromancy is the sort that gives all necromancers their bad name, and C] because of that we're not saying where we are until something changes and we are willing to join.
Post by: killerhellhound on October 12, 2012, 06:37:10 pm
"don't cast spells that you don't know what they do".I do that all the time I generally get not bad results like a cloud of butterfly’s
anyway I think we are talking to the pirite king so go ahead and grill him for info as well as get some info on the god he/she carn't have much power because he/she would have done something.
Post by: Deep Waters on October 12, 2012, 08:28:57 pm
Post by: Grek on October 12, 2012, 08:44:02 pm
Act like you're a paranoid schizophrenic if you have to- convince
Why would you ever want to do that?
Quote
maybe you'll be able to get out of this without making either an (involuntary) ally or an enemy out of her/him/it.Making the other necromancers think we're crazy and irrational will make them want to kill us because we're a threat to their plans. Don't do that.
Post by: Deep Waters on October 12, 2012, 08:44:45 pm
Act like you're a paranoid schizophrenic if you have to- convince
Why would you ever want to do that?Quotemaybe you'll be able to get out of this without making either an (involuntary) ally or an enemy out of her/him/it.Making the other necromancers think we're crazy and irrational will make them want to kill us because we're a threat to their plans. Don't do that.
Two words: Curo Nightroar.
Post by: Grek on October 12, 2012, 08:52:48 pm
Post by: Deep Waters on October 12, 2012, 08:56:23 pm
Curo is crazy in a "Rarr Kill Everything" sort of way, which works out alright if you're trying to recruit for the God of Death. Useful, even, if you need someone to go nuts and kill a whole country worth of people. A paranoid schizophrenic is very different from that - it means that you might suddenly decide to turn on Morka at any time if you get it into your head that one of the other necromancers is plotting against you.
Curo doesn't sound like someone who'd be particularly loyal, and if we did so we'd turn to Morka. I'm fairly sure that a lot of young, amateur necromancers like us are paranoid, and we have plenty of reason to be. Also, I was exaggerating. Don't take everything I say literally. :P
Post by: RAM on October 12, 2012, 09:36:15 pm
So we can't say yes, and we can't say no either, it looks dangerous. We should find a way to at least remain neutral, I guess ? A "we have the same goals but different methods" kind of deal ? Any association is going to be bad for us in the long run, and while we're going to clash eventually, the later the better. We could try to "join them" only to back-stab them later, but we're supposed to be nice, I don't like that option. So ...
I would advise against stalling. We're in a dream, so it may not even work, and even if it did it would be needlessly antagonizing a powerful opponent, which is #7 on the Big List of Things Not To Do When Becoming a Powerful Wizard, right alongside "don't brag" and "don't cast spells that you don't know what they do".Agreed, with a strong does of openly say that we are not willing to provide our current location.
We should say that A] We agree with their goal of making the world safe for necromancers, but B] we can't agree to be on the same side as someone like Curo Nightroar since his sort of necromancy is the sort that gives all necromancers their bad name, and C] because of that we're not saying where we are until something changes and we are willing to join.
P.S.
Of course, pressuring us for a location is a great way to mask that they already know it...
Post by: Felius on October 12, 2012, 10:17:14 pm
Which is the reason we should act as if we know that they already know. Either they do know and drop the act or they don't and we discover more about their capabilities. Unless the rabbit hole goes deeper, and they act like they know we are acting we know they already know. Ehh, anyway, yeah, our best option is probably keep being a paranoid bastard either way. They are likely to respect that a bit, specially if necromancers are rare. Stupid and/or naive necromancers might end being a liability or at most a pawn. They can get pawns without needing other necromancers.So we can't say yes, and we can't say no either, it looks dangerous. We should find a way to at least remain neutral, I guess ? A "we have the same goals but different methods" kind of deal ? Any association is going to be bad for us in the long run, and while we're going to clash eventually, the later the better. We could try to "join them" only to back-stab them later, but we're supposed to be nice, I don't like that option. So ...I would advise against stalling. We're in a dream, so it may not even work, and even if it did it would be needlessly antagonizing a powerful opponent, which is #7 on the Big List of Things Not To Do When Becoming a Powerful Wizard, right alongside "don't brag" and "don't cast spells that you don't know what they do".Agreed, with a strong does of openly say that we are not willing to provide our current location.
We should say that A] We agree with their goal of making the world safe for necromancers, but B] we can't agree to be on the same side as someone like Curo Nightroar since his sort of necromancy is the sort that gives all necromancers their bad name, and C] because of that we're not saying where we are until something changes and we are willing to join.
P.S.
Of course, pressuring us for a location is a great way to mask that they already know it...
Also, I don't think they really expect us to go all "yeah, let's kill all our previous societies". If they aren't stupid, they will consider the possibility that we are still attached to our previous societies and should be willing to take the longer route of letting us getting disillusioned with it while pushing us relatively gently to their side along the way.
Post by: RAM on October 13, 2012, 12:38:03 am
Post by: Cellmonk on October 13, 2012, 12:57:19 am
This in mind, we should still stall on its questions. make it clear that you don't trust them as of yet, and need verification that you aren't being manipulated by a more sinister force (than an honest necromancer). Ask them who is this god of death, and ask them for more details of the history of necromancy. Don't act immediately disgusted by their proposals, rather act hesitant or disturbed. Time your false hints of cooperation appropriately for maximum uncertainty on their part.
If things get out of hand, like if they show a hint of gleaning more information than you consciously send through the dream channel, try to wake up.
Of course, this might just be a dream...
Post by: Grek on October 13, 2012, 02:20:00 am
E: In fact, I think we're just generally discounting the idea that this is exactly what is seems to be - a necromancer with illusionary powers working for the Death God Morka seeking to recruit us to conquer the world. They are asking where we are because they don't know but want to find out. They are asking us to join them because they want another necromancer to join them. Even though things aren't always what they appear to be, that doesn't mean that they're never what they appear to be.
Post by: Felius on October 15, 2012, 01:51:40 pm
Anyway, I think we can agree on at least being cautious e reserved, if not outright dismissing. At the very least we can see if can buy more time.
Post by: Baneling on October 15, 2012, 03:45:25 pm
Just because the DM is often out to get you oh wait the DM is always out to get you never mind.
Just because you think they're out to get you doesn't mean they actually are. This may in fact just be a rather heavy-handed attempt to do exactly what they've said with a bit of a help from seductive shenanigans(turning to the most likely form for Nym to be attracted by).
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 15, 2012, 03:50:19 pm
First:
They told us their name. They did not, in fact, tell us who they are. They know who we are - an elf maiden and fledgling necromancer. We do not know their identity. What ARE they? How are they here? And most specifically, why do they need us? Why couldn't this creature do this all himself? Fale Packunion... is that a dwarven name? (If we think it might be something else, say that instead, but it sounds dwarven to me)
Two:
Why do they need to know where we are? Even assuming we wish to work with them - something we do not yet know, since we have only the words of a dream avatar to go by - can we be sure the other necromancers won't see us as potential competition instead of a potential ally? Can we trust them not to reveal out location? Even if we are all working together to conquer the world, I doubt it will be so simple as us peacefully splitting it between ourselves. Revealing ourselves before securing our own safety from the others seems foolish.
Three:
Is there a way to communicate with the others? If there were, perhaps we could speak with them ourselves, and some of our worries could be put to rest. At the very least, we would prefer to know their stance on you - how do we know they've even agreed to the this alliance? Or won't stab it in the back at the first opportunity for personal gain?
Finally:
We will work with you and share your knowledge, for so long as it will benefit us mutually. We do not have enough information to make a lasting commitment - though we appreciate your cause, caution is warranted in such situations. If pressed, mention that we DO have some information that could be of use in exchange of a commitment, perhaps in the place of a commitment - the location of an artifact. (Don't actually reveal it, just see how he responds for now)
We need to strongly consider what turning him down outright will mean - not only a lack of knowledge as a result, but perhaps more importantly a lack of influence. The other necromancers, regardless of their behaviour, may end up being potential allies later if their own goals don't line up with the mystery man here.
Post by: Nerjin on October 15, 2012, 04:40:19 pm
Post by: Angle on October 15, 2012, 05:24:00 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 15, 2012, 05:29:44 pm
If we are going to stop them we need to:
a) Learn more about them and get to know them - possible sowing dissension among them or maybe even finding an ally. We know the Pirate King is ambitious, for example, but we do not know if he is evil. And even if he IS evil, evil + ambitious is potentially useful. Allies are the key to victory, and right now we have none - pulling some from the enemy ranks would be amazingly useful.
b) Jump at every opportunity for learning more about our powers and the situation as possible - Knowledge is power, after all, and everyone but us has a head start. And if we are going to restore our homeland, this dude? He's the most likely to have some idea how.
b) Not attract undue attention. As I mentioned, everyone else has a head start - even if we don't learn anything or find any allies in this little group, we need to keep them off our back, and badly. Letting them think we're either not a threat, or willing to work with them, is the best way to insure that happens.
Under NO circumstances should we say we are allied with the forces of good. For one thing - we aren't. We have no allies at the moment. Our goals are good, yes, but it's hard to say we're "allied" with the forces of good when those forces would kill us without hesitation. The very furthest we should go is to remain neutral in this conflict... for the time being.
And he made it clear some of the other gods of Death are still around - we might be able to figure out how to contact them, through him, and make a more beneficial alliance if their goals are closer to our own.
Post by: Grek on October 15, 2012, 06:53:06 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 15, 2012, 07:17:58 pm
Post by: Ancre on October 16, 2012, 06:08:01 am
Post by: RAM on October 16, 2012, 08:26:49 am
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 16, 2012, 09:41:55 am
If we do get some sort of play-along with the other necromancers, I suggest we remain careful - playing trickery and backstabbing games is a slippery slope toward "becoming the monster we fight" or trying to be good and ending up as an untrustworthy politician. Other than that, I like the idea.
We'll not do much good if a) we're dead and b) everyone else is dead.
But make sure to tell everything we can to Omo in the morning of this event - Full transparency. Let him know we're relying on him to be our conscious as we descend into this political powder keg.
Post by: V-Norrec on October 16, 2012, 01:07:15 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 16, 2012, 01:17:23 pm
Our character doesn't want to live as normally as possible, and it would be impossible if we did. The world is in dire straights. No, we want to do some good, and the biggest threat to us ever living normally is the guy in front of us - the guy offering us the weapons we'll need to ever have a hope of holding him off, offering us the tools we'll need to reclaim our lands, offering us the power to protect our peoplea, in his greed offering us his own downfall, and you would turn him down and run away?
We are not evil, no, but we are not cowards. This isn't lust, it's necessity.
Post by: V-Norrec on October 16, 2012, 01:30:24 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 16, 2012, 02:57:39 pm
I'm honestly completely unsure of just what just what you disagree with about the assessments I've offered.
Post by: V-Norrec on October 16, 2012, 03:41:12 pm
Post by: Descan on October 16, 2012, 03:45:41 pm
As well, if we visit the dwarves, ask any dwarven priest of any dwarven death-god, as well as the next trust-worthy-seeming human priest about their gods of death.
Find out if any of those three are Morka, and if any of those death-gods seem more in-line with our goals.
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 16, 2012, 04:03:10 pm
Post by: wer6 on October 16, 2012, 06:12:53 pm
or if no one agrees to the last part ask how does necromancy manifest other then that i dont know. :-\
Post by: wer6 on October 16, 2012, 07:17:15 pm
EDIT: double posted :-[
Post by: Grek on October 16, 2012, 07:20:49 pm
Our character doesn't want to live as normally as possible, and it would be impossible if we did.
While this is true, there's no particular reason why we shouldn't claim that we want to live in peace and have a normal life, especially since that's the guise that is most likely to get us out of this alive.
Post by: Ancre on October 17, 2012, 01:58:30 am
Which brings up the question of our cover story - I think we should portray ourselves as a kind of historian, researching necromancers and necromancy, hoping to discover weaknesses and the like to bring back to our homeland to fight the threat.
I think we're already doing that (but it's been a while).
Post by: Grek on October 17, 2012, 02:14:56 am
Since page one, in fact.Which brings up the question of our cover story - I think we should portray ourselves as a kind of historian, researching necromancers and necromancy, hoping to discover weaknesses and the like to bring back to our homeland to fight the threat.
I think we're already doing that (but it's been a while).
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 17, 2012, 02:59:27 pm
Maybe this has all been discussed before, but I think it's worth reviewing what we decided if so.
Post by: wer6 on October 17, 2012, 03:13:13 pm
Post by: V-Norrec on October 17, 2012, 03:48:33 pm
Post by: Angle on October 17, 2012, 06:24:31 pm
Neh, we say we specialize in life magic, someone might expect us to follow up. We should say our magical talents are limited, and go with the scholar persona we've talked about.
Post by: wer6 on October 17, 2012, 08:14:45 pm
Neh, we say we specialize in life magic, someone might expect us to follow up. We should say our magical talents are limited, and go with the scholar persona we've talked about.
i agree.
Post by: RAM on October 17, 2012, 09:37:37 pm
Post by: Cellmonk on October 18, 2012, 12:01:23 am
I think its best to say we are a historian/sociologist. people wont be too interested, and it gives us an excuse to collect artifacts/information. Human officials might think we're a spy, but who captures the spies of their allies?
Post by: Fireiy on October 18, 2012, 03:16:26 am
I think we should underplay and deny our magical abilities as much as possible. A generally muggle peasantry might be too curious if we speak of any magical abilities beyond parlor tricks. Its not like all elves have a great magical ability anyway.That seems reasonable. Besides, we can't actually DO life magic can we?
I think its best to say we are a historian/sociologist. people wont be too interested, and it gives us an excuse to collect artifacts/information. Human officials might think we're a spy, but who captures the spies of their allies?
Post by: Grek on October 18, 2012, 03:32:51 am
Calm Animal- 1 MP - causes wild animals to become peaceful.
Sense Vitality- 1 MP - you can detect the Vitality of living things, with a bit of effort.
We also have three general magic spells which are neither life nor necromancy:
Detect Magic- 1 MP - detects spells and magical items near you.
Brew Mana Potion- A Mana Potion takes twice the potions potency in Mana cost, and requires 1/2 hour per point in brewing time.
Waterproof- 1MP/Hour duration - Makes an object non-absorbent. Does not prevent corrosion (such as from acid or rusting) or magical effects related to water/liquid.
Post by: wer6 on October 18, 2012, 01:19:34 pm
say that we are a historian
say that are magic ability are not very good
we are not sure about joining.
think of what to ask.
tell me if i missed any thing
EDIT: line means that we answer his/her question with that.
Post by: Grek on October 18, 2012, 01:25:25 pm
tell me if i missed any thing
You missed the question of "What do we tell the necromancer talking to us now?"
The consensus there is "we aren't sure about joining and won't commit to anything until we've had time to decide."
Post by: wer6 on October 18, 2012, 03:08:26 pm
Post by: Felius on October 18, 2012, 03:58:03 pm
we need other peoples opinions >:(You did see the pages upon pages of discussion about it, didn't you?
Post by: wer6 on October 18, 2012, 04:00:46 pm
Post by: Felius on October 18, 2012, 04:43:34 pm
huh... thought it was about the last one.It is. Since Monk haven't updated in a few days, we have discussed for quite a while about what to do about the necromancers' offer to join them, and the consensus is that we shouldn't commit to anything, and we should ask for time to think about it.
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 18, 2012, 05:13:37 pm
Post by: wer6 on October 18, 2012, 05:16:50 pm
Post by: RAM on October 18, 2012, 08:22:11 pm
But I think that there was a consensus on not telling them where we are...
P.S.
I feel that we may also benefit from attempting to be a fish...
Post by: wer6 on October 20, 2012, 09:13:25 pm
I use RAISE DEAD
I hope i have enough Mana...
Post by: Fireiy on October 21, 2012, 12:33:12 am
Post by: killerhellhound on October 21, 2012, 12:53:05 am
Post by: LordBucket on October 21, 2012, 02:07:43 am
we have discussed for quite a while about what to do about the necromancers' offer to join them,
and the consensus is that we shouldn't commit to anything, and we should ask for time to think about it.
Agreed. Nothing's been said to indicate this is a "join right now or die" sort of proposition. Say nothing that is untrue, don't be antagonistic...just explain that we're not going to promise to join with the apparition we've just met, and we're not going to say where we are. Yes, we're a necromancer, and we've survived this long only by being cautious, and we've not going to change that right now just because someone decided to visit us in a dream. But neither are we interested in making enemies of them.
Take the neutral course. Be receptive if they want to visit us again. Make no commitments, but allow her to believe that she'll "convert us in time."
Post by: killerhellhound on October 21, 2012, 03:53:06 am
This is a very good round up of what people want so this gets my +1we have discussed for quite a while about what to do about the necromancers' offer to join them,
and the consensus is that we shouldn't commit to anything, and we should ask for time to think about it.
Agreed. Nothing's been said to indicate this is a "join right now or die" sort of proposition. Say nothing that is untrue, don't be antagonistic...just explain that we're not going to promise to join with the apparition we've just met, and we're not going to say where we are. Yes, we're a necromancer, and we've survived this long only by being cautious, and we've not going to change that right now just because someone decided to visit us in a dream. But neither are we interested in making enemies of them.
Take the neutral course. Be receptive if they want to visit us again. Make no commitments, but allow her to believe that she'll "convert us in time."
Post by: Child of Armok on October 21, 2012, 04:01:11 am
Post by: Fireiy on October 21, 2012, 09:44:42 am
Great way to sum up what the majority of people want. +1we have discussed for quite a while about what to do about the necromancers' offer to join them,
and the consensus is that we shouldn't commit to anything, and we should ask for time to think about it.
Agreed. Nothing's been said to indicate this is a "join right now or die" sort of proposition. Say nothing that is untrue, don't be antagonistic...just explain that we're not going to promise to join with the apparition we've just met, and we're not going to say where we are. Yes, we're a necromancer, and we've survived this long only by being cautious, and we've not going to change that right now just because someone decided to visit us in a dream. But neither are we interested in making enemies of them.
Take the neutral course. Be receptive if they want to visit us again. Make no commitments, but allow her to believe that she'll "convert us in time."
Post by: wer6 on October 21, 2012, 10:05:10 am
Great way to sum up what the majority of people want. +1we have discussed for quite a while about what to do about the necromancers' offer to join them,
and the consensus is that we shouldn't commit to anything, and we should ask for time to think about it.
Agreed. Nothing's been said to indicate this is a "join right now or die" sort of proposition. Say nothing that is untrue, don't be antagonistic...just explain that we're not going to promise to join with the apparition we've just met, and we're not going to say where we are. Yes, we're a necromancer, and we've survived this long only by being cautious, and we've not going to change that right now just because someone decided to visit us in a dream. But neither are we interested in making enemies of them.
Take the neutral course. Be receptive if they want to visit us again. Make no commitments, but allow her to believe that she'll "convert us in time."
i agree + 1
Post by: Ancre on October 21, 2012, 06:15:27 pm
Post by: Cellmonk on October 22, 2012, 02:34:16 am
Post by: racnor on October 22, 2012, 04:38:29 pm
you glance up at the ceiling before quickly averting your gaze- the ceiling is Dangerous.???
Post by: GlyphGryph on October 22, 2012, 11:34:55 pm
Post by: RAM on October 23, 2012, 08:23:35 pm
Post by: racnor on October 24, 2012, 08:45:47 pm
Post by: Grek on October 24, 2012, 09:04:48 pm
Only start trying to escape through it if it doesn't looke like we'll be getting out any other way.
Post by: RAM on October 25, 2012, 05:44:52 am
Post by: wer6 on October 25, 2012, 05:53:01 am
Post by: RAM on October 25, 2012, 09:02:56 pm
Post by: monk12 on November 21, 2012, 11:04:35 pm
Spoiler: Author's Note (click to show/hide)
I would advise against stalling. We're in a dream, so it may not even work, and even if it did it would be needlessly antagonizing a powerful opponent, which is #7 on the Big List of Things Not To Do When Becoming a Powerful Wizard, right alongside "don't brag" and "don't cast spells that you don't know what they do".
We should say that A] We agree with their goal of making the world safe for necromancers, but B] we can't agree to be on the same side as someone like Curo Nightroar since his sort of necromancy is the sort that gives all necromancers their bad name, and C] because of that we're not saying where we are until something changes and we are willing to join.
Also, I don't think they really expect us to go all "yeah, let's kill all our previous societies". If they aren't stupid, they will consider the possibility that we are still attached to our previous societies and should be willing to take the longer route of letting us getting disillusioned with it while pushing us relatively gently to their side along the way.
"Will you work with us, and share our knowledge? Where are you?"
"I'd like to work with other Necromancers, but I can't endorse your methods. You want me to abandon my people, my friends? To join up with a maniac like Curo Nightroar? It's Necromancers like him who make everyone feel the need to bring whole armies against us."
"You'll see- your friends and family will abandon you once they know who you really are. It's inevitable."
"It's only inevitable if you don't try! There has to be another way- Necromancers coexisted with the rest of Urak long ago, and they can do so again. I know it!"
Fale rolls his eyes, striding closer to you. "Pfft. You know nothing. You'll see the truth of my words sooner or later, but don't hold onto your stubbornness for too long- I can't help you if you get yourself killed. We'll talk again- until then, stay out of our way."
Suddenly, Fale lifts his hand- his fingers are wreathed in purple fire as he gives you a firm shove. Surprised, you fall backward, tumbling into your fishing hole as Fale's strange room fades away. The purple fishes swarm around you, blocking your view as they mass in impossible numbers, swirling closer and closer...
Anyway, on the morning inform Omo of the situation, and tell him you need to start working on becoming able to oppose them, which including training, researching and building a power base. Work on doing so. We need to work on overtime to be able to be in a position where we can actually declare opposition to the other necromancers. If the necromancers can somehow scry us and see that we tell them that we are doing so so can keep him as our asset for now and that we are working on creating a power base so we are safe from those who would hunt us. Stall some more. Also, research old tomes and etc. to discover if there is any "good" death god, or at least a neutral one. We might need a god to handle another.
But make sure to tell everything we can to Omo in the morning of this event - Full transparency. Let him know we're relying on him to be our conscious as we descend into this political powder keg.
After a night of murky, half-remembered dreams, you awake to the sound of Omo snoring on the floor. With a tired groan, you roll over in bed- although your other dreams are rapidly dissipating, your encounter with Fale Packunion remains sharp and clear. There is no doubt in your mind that he (or she, or it) is no figment of your imagination.
Judging by the weak light attempting to crawl in the window, it is either early morning or quite cloudy outside. After rubbing your eyes, you conclude you won't be able to get back to sleep. In the interests of fairness, you decide Omo should get up as well- sitting up, you dig through your pack for Prestidigitation for the Beginning Practitioner. Close inspection confirms that it is a sturdy, well crafted tome. Reassured that the book will be fine, you toss it off the foot of the bed, about where you judge Omo's head to be.
"Agh! Wha- Did you just throw the book at me, Nym?"
"Yeah. I had a weird dream last night."
"So you chucked your textbook at my head!?! You could've brained me!"
"It's not like you were using those brains anyway."
"On the contrary, those brains are giving me a nice pounding headache to thank me for the ale I had last night. I was rather hoping we'd get to sleep in before we go tramping through the wilderness."
"Sorry, no such luck. Listen- the dream I had wasn't really a dream, I think. Somehow, some other Necromancer contacted me in my sleep."
Omo sits bolt upright before wincing and rubbing his head. "Wait, what? Necromancers can do that?"
"I guess? He said his name was Fale Packunion."
"Strange name- sounds vaguely dwarven."
"Yeah. He appeared to be an elf though- actually first he appeared to be a human woman, then changed to an elf man. He said he was trying to unify the Necromancers under Morka, god of Death. Ever hear of him?"
Omo shakes his head. "No, I've never heard of Morka. I know the Golgothans worshiped Golgoth, but they're all dead now."
"Wait, really? I didn't know that."
"Yeah, well, you'd have known if you had paid more attention to the Sages. That's pretty much all I remember, though. What happened next?"
"He said something about teaching me Necromancy in exchange for my allegiance, and everyone I love will betray me, yadda yadda so on and so forth. I turned him down- I know he's definitely working with Nightroar, and any friend of his is no friend of mine."
"Right. So... what now?"
"I don't think he knows I've left the Vale- he kept asking where I was, like he didn't know. I don't know if anything has really changed for us- we know the other Necromancers are working together to conquer the world, but not much else at this point. I say we go on like before. If we leave now, we should make Aloclesno before nightfall."
"Yeah... that makes sense, I guess. Let's get some breakfast first, though."
After taking advantage of the opportunity to freshen up, you head downstairs. The common room is empty except for the sleepy innkeeper, who stifles a yawn as he brings you a bowl of oatmeal with some dried fruit slices on top. Omo begins to devour his portion with single-minded determination.
"So do you know which way we're going?"
"Mmmph. Yeah, I was talking with the soldiers about it last night. There's a dirt road that should take us straight to the forest, more or less. There's a few flyspeck farming villages between here and there- most are abandoned, but the one furthest south is still inhabited."
"The village closest to the forest?"
"Mmhm. Patrols head that way every now and again to make sure they're alright, but they haven't seen much in the way of zombies- too far out of the way, likely. We should be able to spend the night there before going on into the forest."
"Wait, you didn't tell them we were going into the haunted forest, did you?"
"Please, give me some credit. If anyone asks, we're looking for family from one of the abandoned villages."
After breakfast, you gather your things and hit the road. As it turns out, it is indeed both early in the morning and quite cloudy out. A warm southerly breeze promises rain as it tugs at your cloak and stirs the flags of the Imperial troopers. There is a general exodus in progress as most of the soldiers gear up and head out on patrol, while the remainder continue their efforts at fortifying the village. Leaving through the East Gate, Omo quickly peels away from the marching warriors and takes you down a narrow dirt road.
It is something of a kindness to call it a road- more accurately, it is a set of wagon-wheel ruts straddling a strip of dirt hard-packed from generations of traveling feet. Hardy weeds stubbornly eke out an existence on the otherwise barren path. The road zigs and zags its way through the farmland near the village, but once out in the open spaces it straightens up quite nicely. It also deteriorates somewhat- clearly, not many travelers leave the highway to visit the boondocks.
For the most part, the road leads through uninhabited wilderness, grassland broken only by the odd bush or shrub. Every once in a great while, you pass a solitary farm- some are abandoned, their windows boarded shut and occupants fled, but many of the farmers stubborn enough to scrape an existence this far from civilization are also stubborn enough to remain in their homes despite the Necromancer threat. Their life appears largely unchanged as they work the fields, getting the first crops of the season planted.
As Omo mentioned, there are indeed small hamlets out here, little more than a half dozen stone farmhouses clustered around a good source of water, with maybe an inn or some craftsman's shop. The grey clouds begin to drizzle on you as you pass through the first hamlet, but by the time you've passed the last villager returning from his field the rain has stopped. When you pass through the second hamlet early in the afternoon, however, there are no villagers to pass- every home and shop is boarded up, abandoned. There is something profoundly unsettling about a completely deserted village- rather than take your lunch there, you continue on a ways out of town.
The drizzle makes a serious attempt to qualify as rain as you continue following the road southeast, but ultimately peters out after about an hour of dampness. The farmhouses become few and far between as the land gets more and more rough, the monotony of the countryside now broken up with the occasional boulder. The road becomes less a road and more of a trail as the grass and weeds grow over the wagon tracks, making footing difficult. It's a very boring afternoon of walking- Omo seems to be alone with his thoughts, and you find your own thoughts returning to your strange dream, searching for clues. You've never heard of Necromancy being associated with dreams in any story, but then again, you've also never heard of them being associated with golems, either. Prestidigitation for the Beginning Practitioner makes no mention of dreams or dream magic for any of the other Magical Faiths. Really, the only dream magic you've heard of comes from fairy tales which have no basis in fact.
The sun hangs low in the sky when you begin passing farmhouses again. Though they appear to be deserted, they do not appear to have been abandoned for long- children's toys and farming implements still litter the ground, and at one farm you see a small herd of cattle still within their pen. Looking around, you see no farmers- your shouts elicit no response from the locked and hastily boarded up farmhouse.
The village comes into view after another couple miles of walking. It is clearly larger than the hamlets you passed on the road here. Not only are there more houses, but a prominent two story building rising up in the middle of town appears to be a temple. You hear plenty of commotion, but encounter no villagers until you stand in the center of town. Beside the temple is an open, grassy area- or rather, it would be open if it were not full of villagers standing around, talking anxiously. Other villagers hurry in and out of the temple, running off on whatever errand is important enough to take precedence over dinnertime. Looking further down the road, you can see a large, loud man directing a line of villagers shoveling dirt, digging a trench to the east of the village.
Omo scratches his head, looking at all the activity. "Well, I don't see anyplace that looks like an inn. Maybe the temple? I don't know what the commotion is about- hopefully they don't look poorly on strangers."
You look around in concern. You'd hoped to get a good night's rest here, as well as some more information on the supposedly haunted forest you plan to skirt, but you aren't sure where to go or who to talk to. Any ideas?
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: Felius on November 21, 2012, 11:18:21 pm
Oh well, the village seems to potentially be in danger of an attack. Get some information about the whole deal, try to discover what exactly is going on and if they expect to be attacked in less than a day. If so, we should consider carrying on to somewhere else, even if we don't get to sleep. If they are to be attacked we can't really make any difference or be of any help except possibly by using necromancy itself, which not only is not even close of being certain to help, can easily lead on to the villagers turning onto us and getting the word out of us as a necromancer. That would suck. Hard.
Post by: racnor on November 22, 2012, 12:21:17 am
IT'S ALIVE!+1, also, should we work through some of the experiment backlog while we travel next time?
Oh well, the village seems to potentially be in danger of an attack. Get some information about the whole deal, try to discover what exactly is going on and if they expect to be attacked in less than a day. If so, we should consider carrying on to somewhere else, even if we don't get to sleep. If they are to be attacked we can't really make any difference or be of any help except possibly by using necromancy itself, which not only is not even close of being certain to help, can easily lead on to the villagers turning onto us and getting the word out of us as a necromancer. That would suck. Hard.
Post by: Grek on November 22, 2012, 01:08:32 am
This and yes, we should, if Omo has no objections to it.IT'S ALIVE!+1, also, should we work through some of the experiment backlog while we travel next time?
Oh well, the village seems to potentially be in danger of an attack. Get some information about the whole deal, try to discover what exactly is going on and if they expect to be attacked in less than a day. If so, we should consider carrying on to somewhere else, even if we don't get to sleep. If they are to be attacked we can't really make any difference or be of any help except possibly by using necromancy itself, which not only is not even close of being certain to help, can easily lead on to the villagers turning onto us and getting the word out of us as a necromancer. That would suck. Hard.
Post by: Ancre on November 22, 2012, 04:09:43 am
And I agree with the poster above.
Post by: Felius on November 22, 2012, 07:04:16 am
Post by: monk12 on November 25, 2012, 10:41:28 pm
IT'S ALIVE!
Oh well, the village seems to potentially be in danger of an attack. Get some information about the whole deal, try to discover what exactly is going on and if they expect to be attacked in less than a day. If so, we should consider carrying on to somewhere else, even if we don't get to sleep. If they are to be attacked we can't really make any difference or be of any help except possibly by using necromancy itself, which not only is not even close of being certain to help, can easily lead on to the villagers turning onto us and getting the word out of us as a necromancer. That would suck. Hard.
After looking around for a moment, you decide to take the direct approach and ask one of the nearby villagers what is going on. Seeing an older man standing by himself, you walk over to introduce yourself.
"Hello! What's all the commotion?"
He regards you in surprise, stroking his chin. "Haven't you heard? Zombies attacked some of the outlying farms last night! We're waiting to hear what happened- some folks are still missing, and we don't know if the village is in danger." His eyes narrow as he examines you more closely. "You aren't from around here, are you? Who are you?"
"We're looking for relatives from ours- they would have been from a nearby villager." Omo interjects quickly.
The man shakes his head. "I can't say as we've had any refugees come our way- most of them are running back toward the city. I had friends in Stickover, though- looking for anyone I know?"
"Uh..."
"Revereorder. Luki Revereorder, would be the head of the family."
The man scratches his chin. "Never heard of him, but then again, I don't get out of Bedscaled very often these days. I don't know of anyone else coming here, but you could ask Eko Cleanvise- he's the priest here." He spit off to the side, grimacing sourly. "Not much of a priest, but he's all we got."
"Not much of a priest?"
"He's never been the most pious man, but he's always got the job done- before now. Rumors are going around that several of the farmhouses that were destroyed were ones near Aloclesno- farmhouses that were supposed to be warded against the undead!"
Interested to hear him mention Aloclesno, you begin to question him further, but a sudden shout from the front of the crowd draws your attention. Waving for attention atop the temple steps stands a heavyset balding man wearing a coarse brown robe. Hanging around his neck is a medallion, a simple iron square divided into four even quadrants. You recognize the symbol from the religious motifs you saw at the Temple of Larathor. The crowd huddles around him, calling for attention.
"What's the word, Eko?"
"What's happened to the Scarletdaubs?"
"Where are the zombies? Are we safe here?"
"Why didn't your wards work, Eko?"
"That's enough! Quiet down so I can tell you right!" the priest shouted in a deep, gravelly voice, holding his arms up. After a moment, the crowd quieted enough for him to continue. "Here's what we know. Last night, a large force of the undead struck four farmhouses to the east. The Trimsockets and the Overblushes managed to escape, and made their way back here to warn the rest of us. The Drunkenstumbles fought with what weapons they had, and drove the zombies off. Jal and Zego were killed, though, and Ado is in a bad way. The Scarletdaubs fought too, but they were overcome. We found Cikul's body mangled in the house, but everyone else is missing."
"Where did they come from?" a worried voice called out.
"Somewhere to the east. We don't know more than that, however- we found bloody, child-sized footprints outside the Scarletdaubs farmstead, and there is a search on to see whether the kids might have escaped the attack."
"How come they could even attack the Scarletdaub place?" another angry voice shouted. "They're right by the forest! You were supposed to have warded them from zombies!"
"If I knew, I'd tell you." Eko said curtly. "All we know is that somehow, they can overcome the wards. I urge everyone to stay within the village until we know more. It doesn't seem likely that we'll be attacked again, but we will have a watch kept throughout the night. If you have nowhere to sleep, the Temple of Atal is open to all. We have already sent a rider to inform the Imperial Forces of our situation- all that can be done has been done! Either help with the defenses, or return to your homes!"
Ignoring further calls for his attention, Eko steps back inside the temple, shutting the door behind himself. A couple villagers, undeterred, follow him inside. A half dozen men and women walk down the road to where the ditch is being dug, determined to help out. Most of the crowd, however, disperses to their homes, muttering uneasily to one another.
Rubbing your arm, you consider the situation thoughtfully. "What do you think, Omo? I don't think we can be much help here, and the Imperials should come soon enough. Maybe we should go the long way around the forest."
"Maybe." Omo says, his voice grave. He slings his quarterstaff behind his shoulders, pensively holding it between his wrists and the back of his neck.
"Maybe?" You quirk an eyebrow.
Omo stand with his head down for a moment, then nods. "He said they think the kids from that farm survived. Do you think any of these farmers can track as well as an Elven Ranger?"
"You want to help them find the survivors?"
Omo nods again, more firmly. He lazily twirls his staff before grounding it in the dirt. "A Ranger like me? I won't even be gone the whole night."
You consider Omo's plan. It has its merits- he's probably right that a trained woodsman will stand a better chance of finding the missing humans, and it's not like you're on a tight schedule. On the other hand, you aren't sure where this would leave you- should you stay behind in the village, and try to learn more about Aloclesno and the priest's wards against the undead? Or should you accompany Omo? If he runs into zombie trouble, your presence could be a great help. Then again, maybe you should just leave the humans to their own devices, and set off immediately- there are bigger forces loose in the world, and time spent here is less time spent harnessing your powers.
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
also, should we work through some of the experiment backlog while we travel next time?
Experimenting as we travel should be fine, just keep it to the mostly harmless and less necromantic looking necromancy, just in case. This way if someone spot us doing it, it won't cause a mob to immediately form after us.
Duly noted. For future reference, is there a threshold at which you would want to stop experimenting? "Don't deplete Mana less than half" or anything like that? I'll assume travel experiments are only the ones that don't involve carrying around zombies/golems for a prolonged time, unless you otherwise specify. Hopefully future travel segments will give me the opportunity to poll the thread about which experiments you want to see performed.
Post by: Felius on November 25, 2012, 10:50:55 pm
About the experiments, at our current mana, expend maybe 4 points, and the rest when just before we go to sleep. Alternatively, if in specially dangerous areas, expend it only before bed, and possibly not expend it all.
Post by: racnor on November 25, 2012, 11:04:51 pm
Hmm, I need to sleep over it to really propose a new plan, but so far, I'd say, yeah, let's try to find the kids, but don't take too many risks. We are not used to dealing with Undead yet, so we might as well just make ourselves victims instead of actually helping anyone. Some investigation on those wards might as well be merited. It might actually be a thing, but too weak against the undeads that attacked or they might not work at all for a number of different reasons, from he's well intentioned but deluded, passing through he making fake wards to gain power to him being in collusion with the necromancer. Remember to be careful either way.+1, also, be subtle with our necromancy usage if we do fight undead. No purple lazors if we don't have to.
About the experiments, at our current mana, expend maybe 4 points, and the rest when just before we go to sleep. Alternatively, if in specially dangerous areas, expend it only before bed, and possibly not expend it all.
Post by: Descan on November 25, 2012, 11:10:34 pm
After that, we go with Omo and practice controlling feral/otherNecro undead, whichever these guys turn out to be. Small groups only, though. One or two to start until we get a hang of it, and avoid the larger troupes.
Post by: Grek on November 25, 2012, 11:39:48 pm
Post by: killerhellhound on November 25, 2012, 11:59:29 pm
Post by: Cellmonk on November 26, 2012, 02:34:24 am
I vote we go with Omo. Splitting up is never a good idea.Yeah, I think we've all seen plenty of instances of
Person A: "oh my god there are monsters"
Person B: "then lets split up so we can get more done"
and their rather bloody outcomes. We can't afford to lose Omo now.
Post by: killerhellhound on November 26, 2012, 03:34:08 am
+1I vote we go with Omo. Splitting up is never a good idea.Yeah, I think we've all seen plenty of instances of
Person A: "oh my god there are monsters"
Person B: "then lets split up so we can get more done"
and their rather bloody outcomes. We can't afford to lose Omo now.
Post by: Iituem on November 26, 2012, 03:35:52 am
I vote we go with Omo. Splitting up is never a good idea.Yeah, I think we've all seen plenty of instances of
Person A: "oh my god there are monsters"
Person B: "then lets split up so we can get more done"
and their rather bloody outcomes. We can't afford to lose Omo now.
In the words of a certain group of doomed elves... thiiiiis.
Post by: Zako on November 26, 2012, 03:53:25 am
And yes, go with Omo. He'll need our help incase he runs into zombies. Just make sure that they don't look at us, their masters could be watching!
Post by: Felius on November 26, 2012, 10:08:57 am
Post by: Descan on November 26, 2012, 10:36:41 am
Well, yeah, of course. No matter what we do we should go with Omo. If we ask for the priest about the wards now, ask for Omo to wait a bit before going searching, so you can get more information about the situation. Going in blind is always a bad idea.+1
Post by: Zako on November 26, 2012, 12:22:32 pm
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on November 26, 2012, 05:00:37 pm
+2Well, yeah, of course. No matter what we do we should go with Omo. If we ask for the priest about the wards now, ask for Omo to wait a bit before going searching, so you can get more information about the situation. Going in blind is always a bad idea.+1
Post by: Angle on November 26, 2012, 05:44:48 pm
+3+2Well, yeah, of course. No matter what we do we should go with Omo. If we ask for the priest about the wards now, ask for Omo to wait a bit before going searching, so you can get more information about the situation. Going in blind is always a bad idea.+1
Post by: javierpwn on November 26, 2012, 05:49:10 pm
Post by: RAM on November 26, 2012, 09:24:22 pm
Post by: Cellmonk on November 26, 2012, 09:58:21 pm
Tracking people down can be somewhat time-critical, and I suspect that we should depart with Omo immediately. Afterwards there may well be an opportunity to pose as a student Who is fascinated by the wards' failure and wishes to know more about them...I think this is the most reasonable approach. Either we search now or we don't search at all. Those children may be bleeding out, and if Omo finds one sightly too late, and there's a hint it might be because you asked him to wait, it could both effect your conscience and Omo's relationship with you negatively. Besides, the ward is currently worthless, and any information we get from him might just jumble our understanding. Not that we shouldn't come back later, maybe as heroes, and investigate.
+1
Post by: Felius on November 26, 2012, 10:03:46 pm
This is true. I guess the plan is to take 5 minutes to try to discover where they were last seen and how long ago and forth searching them?Tracking people down can be somewhat time-critical, and I suspect that we should depart with Omo immediately. Afterwards there may well be an opportunity to pose as a student Who is fascinated by the wards' failure and wishes to know more about them...I think this is the most reasonable approach. Either we search now or we don't search at all. Those children may be bleeding out, and if Omo finds one sightly too late, and there's a hint it might be because you asked him to wait, it could both effect your conscience and Omo's relationship with you negatively. Besides, the ward is currently worthless, and any information we get from him might just jumble our understanding. Not that we shouldn't come back later, maybe as heroes, and investigate.
+1
Post by: Cellmonk on November 26, 2012, 10:37:32 pm
Yeah. I guess a few questions wouldn't hurt, if we go to him to gather clues anyway. But if there is a substantial wait, we should just gather what we can from the townspeople and leave the priest to his own device. It seems like there may be quite a line to talk with him.This is true. I guess the plan is to take 5 minutes to try to discover where they were last seen and how long ago and forth searching them?Tracking people down can be somewhat time-critical, and I suspect that we should depart with Omo immediately. Afterwards there may well be an opportunity to pose as a student Who is fascinated by the wards' failure and wishes to know more about them...I think this is the most reasonable approach. Either we search now or we don't search at all. Those children may be bleeding out, and if Omo finds one sightly too late, and there's a hint it might be because you asked him to wait, it could both effect your conscience and Omo's relationship with you negatively. Besides, the ward is currently worthless, and any information we get from him might just jumble our understanding. Not that we shouldn't come back later, maybe as heroes, and investigate.
+1
Post by: Angle on November 26, 2012, 10:39:58 pm
Yeah. I guess a few questions wouldn't hurt, if we go to him to gather clues anyway. But if there is a substantial wait, we should just gather what we can from the townspeople and leave the priest to his own device. It seems like there may be quite a line to talk with him.This is true. I guess the plan is to take 5 minutes to try to discover where they were last seen and how long ago and forth searching them?Tracking people down can be somewhat time-critical, and I suspect that we should depart with Omo immediately. Afterwards there may well be an opportunity to pose as a student Who is fascinated by the wards' failure and wishes to know more about them...I think this is the most reasonable approach. Either we search now or we don't search at all. Those children may be bleeding out, and if Omo finds one sightly too late, and there's a hint it might be because you asked him to wait, it could both effect your conscience and Omo's relationship with you negatively. Besides, the ward is currently worthless, and any information we get from him might just jumble our understanding. Not that we shouldn't come back later, maybe as heroes, and investigate.
+1
+1
Post by: monk12 on November 29, 2012, 02:09:10 pm
Yeah. I guess a few questions wouldn't hurt, if we go to him to gather clues anyway. But if there is a substantial wait, we should just gather what we can from the townspeople and leave the priest to his own device. It seems like there may be quite a line to talk with him.This is true. I guess the plan is to take 5 minutes to try to discover where they were last seen and how long ago and forth searching them?Tracking people down can be somewhat time-critical, and I suspect that we should depart with Omo immediately. Afterwards there may well be an opportunity to pose as a student Who is fascinated by the wards' failure and wishes to know more about them...I think this is the most reasonable approach. Either we search now or we don't search at all. Those children may be bleeding out, and if Omo finds one sightly too late, and there's a hint it might be because you asked him to wait, it could both effect your conscience and Omo's relationship with you negatively. Besides, the ward is currently worthless, and any information we get from him might just jumble our understanding. Not that we shouldn't come back later, maybe as heroes, and investigate.
+1
+1
"You want to help them find the survivors?"
Omo nods again, more firmly. He lazily twirls his staff before grounding it in the dirt. "A Ranger like me? I won't even be gone the whole night."
"Hm. Alright, then. But I'm going with you."
Omo gives you a surprised look. "Really? I figured you would want to stay here for the night to rest and eat. Since when can you track?"
You lower your voice. "It's not the kids I"ll be tracking. If there are undead out there, you'll need my talents." You raise your voice, giving Omo a joking grin. "Besides, I may not have paid attention to the history lessons, but I did pay attention to the adventure stories! Nothing good ever happens when the heroes split up."
"Ha! Alright then, let's ask Mr. Eko about the search."
Just as Omo speaks his name, the doors to the temple burst open as the aforementioned priest ushers a loudly protesting villager outside. Eko Cleanvise gives the man one last shove down the street, pointing toward the line of digging villagers- the villager hesitates a moment before sullenly walking away, muttering under his breath as he goes to join the workers. Eko sighs, shaking his head before turning to go back inside. Omo, seeing his opportunity, quickly strides up to the portly priest.
"Hello! Eko Cleanvise!"
Eko glowers as he turns to face you. "Listen, I don't know why the wards failed, but I'm doing my best to find out. Leave me be, I have an injured man to tend to!"
Omo holds up his hands. "No, no, I don't care about that. My name is Omo, and this is Nym."
You give Eko a small wave. "Actually, I would like to hear an answer about the wards, but my interest is purely academic."
Eko blinks, taking in your appearance. "Eh? I didn't expect to see strangers in the village- we don't get many travelers to begin with, and these are dark times to be on the open road. Well, if you need shelter for the night, you are more than welcome to stay in my temple. I can't promise terribly good accommodations, but blankets by the fire are still better than a cold shrub by the roadside."
"Actually, we heard about your troubles, and the missing children, and we'd like to volunteer for the search." Omo draws himself up proudly. "I'm an expert tracker, better than anyone for miles around!"
"I appreciate your offer, but the last I've heard you won't be able to track anything. The rain has obscured what few tracks remained, and by the time you got out to the farm the sun will have set." Eko sighs heavily. "We'll be happy to have your help tomorrow, but two small children, alone in the wilderness, surrounded by zombies, possibly injured... well, I don't have to tell you the odds are bad."
"How old are the children?" You ask gently.
"We aren't sure- the zombies didn't leave any bodies at the farmhouse except for poor Cikul, and the last I heard they'd only found sign of two children. Based on the footprints we found we think that the two youngest escaped- Nelti is a six year old girl, and Rismal is an eight year old boy."
Omo raises one finger, smiling broadly. "I wasn't kidding when I said I'm the best tracker around- I don't care about the rain, and I don't care about the dark! The trail will only get colder overnight."
Eko regards the ranger gravely. "And the zombies? I'm sure the searchers are abandoning the hunt as we speak- they aren't likely to succeed where they've failed all day, and there's no need to get even more people killed by the undead threat."
"We are aware of the danger, Mr. Eko, and we're willing to search anyway. Can you give us directions to the Scarletdaub farm?"
Eko sighs. "Well, don't say I didn't warn you. The Scarletdaub farm is easy to find- just follow the road East, out of the village. It's the last farm on the path, within sight of Aloclesno itself- Cikul was always a brave man, willing to farm and prosper where others feared to tread. The searchers said they found the footprints by the well. Just be careful out there, and don't do anything stupid- I'll have a spot by the fire waiting for you."
Making your farewells, you and Omo set out down the road to the Scarletdaub farm. Passing the line of villagers, you see that they aren't merely digging a ditch, they are also building an earthen wall to defend the village. You attract a few odd looks, but pass the workers unmolested.
The setting sun at your back casts long shadows before you as you continue down the road. Though there are plenty of farms nestled close to the village, they peter out after a mile or so- evidently, the land East of the village is not as highly prized as that to the West. A dark shadow growing on the horizon slowly resolves itself into a distant forest- Aloclesno, no doubt. Although the sun is only now dipping below the horizon, the moon is well on its way into the sky, shining down on the darkening landscape.
Twilight is giving way to full night by the time the shadowy hulk of a farmhouse looms out of the dark. The farmhouse itself sits fairly close to the road- to the right, the animal pens stand open and empty of livestock. Further back, you can see the tall wooden barn standing between the farmyard and the fields. The whole place is eerily quiet, with only the gentle breeze occasionally rustling the grass.
Omo points to the well, walking to where it is situated between the barn and the house. "Eko said they found the footprints there, so that's where we'll start."
"Do you want me to light a torch?"
Omo crouches down by the side of the well, inspecting the ground. "No, we need to preserve our night vision. Besides, I don't want to give away our position if there are any zombies out."
"Can zombies see torchlight?"
Omo gives you a startled glance. "I- what are you asking me for? You're the, uh, the one who should know."
You shrug. "I haven't raised anything bigger than a fish. Actually, I think they can see the torchlight, but I don't know if they're smart enough to know to attack it."
Omo grunts, slowly walking around the well. He stops, pointing at the ground. "Here. Two barefoot children were here, one bigger than the other." He touches the ground. "Still a little blood. These are the tracks."
You follow Omo as he slowly walks away from the well, following signs only he can see. "Is it their blood, do you think?"
"Impossible to tell. One of them was either bleeding or dripping blood, though." Omo scowls at the ground. "Stupid farmers, trampling my tracks." Omo's scowl deepened as he neared the edge of the farmyard. "They were being followed."
"Followed?"
Omo nods. "A few larger creatures were right behind them- that's why the tracks are so difficult to find. I'm guessing they were being chased by zombies."
Omo slowly follows the tracks away from the farmyard- rather than turning toward the cleared fields or the open road, the tracks go straight into the wilderness. Omo moves more quickly in the tall grass, pointing out broken shrubs and trampled weeds that clearly mark the passage of something large. Every now and then, Omo pauses to examine a small piece of cloth caught on a thorny bush, or a shallow, bare footprint softened by the day's drizzle- evidence that the missing children had indeed come this way.
Suddenly, you sense something. You reach out and grab Omo's arm. "Get down!" you hiss.
Omo immediately crouches down below the grass, quickly looking around. "What is it?" he whispers.
"Undead." You point ahead, somewhat away from the bearing of the path. "Two of them. No, three, maybe eighty feet ahead. Four vitality each."
Omo squints ahead. "That's nearly in the forest."
"That's where the trail is leading, too. Do you think the kids would run into the haunted forest?"
"If they thought the zombies wouldn't follow. Or maybe they just thought it would be easier to hide in the trees than out here in the grass."
Now that you know where to look, you can see faint pinpoints of purple light flashing in the distance. They appear stand just short of the treeline- there is an unusually clear edge to the forest, with open plain giving way to ancient, dense forest in the space of a half dozen yards. The surrounding plain is the same thigh-high grass interspersed with taller shrubs that you've been traveling through all day.
Omo wipes his hands on his pants before hefting his quarterstaff. "The Rangers say that most zombies are slow and flimsy. Easy to defeat if you don't get spooked. We need to get by them to follow the trail- should we fight, or do you have a better idea?"
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: Felius on November 29, 2012, 02:17:56 pm
Also good to see if have any outright destroy/disrupt undead spell. If nothing else works, Steal Vitality should work reasonably well.
Alternatively we could try to bypass them, but that could take some time and leave the trail.
A sidenote for the future: We really need to get a weapon for ourselves. A good quarterstaff or some polearm should be nice (I favor the billhook, specially against undeads. Once you drag them down it should be easy to finish them off)
Post by: Grek on November 29, 2012, 02:34:42 pm
No opinion as to whether we want to use Command Undead or Steal Vitality on the zombies. Steal Vitality would kill all the undead for 9 mana pretty reliably. Command Undead would be slower, may not work, but would cost only 6 and would convert the undead. It's a wash there, really.
Post by: Descan on November 29, 2012, 02:48:43 pm
And after that, no matter the result, try and command the undead if we have the mana, as many as possible for the next part:
I want to try and "resurrect" one of the undead, bring them back to life. Like, their old selves. If we succeed, do the same for the other zombies if we get more than one. But only after the combat has settled, and no hostile zombies are still fluttering about.
If we're to help clean Necromancies in the eyes of the world, and bring the elven homeland back to it's former glory, we should probably start here, no? If we can bring them back to their old selves, we can show Necromancy is not just a destructive magic. And we'll know we can "cure" at least people of undeath, possibly the land too. And Omo, if he had any doubts about us before... Well, I'm sure it can't hurt.
Unless we bring them back as some sort of abomination, weakly crying "Kill... meeee..."
That might... hurt us, a little, in his eyes.
Post by: Grek on November 29, 2012, 02:54:35 pm
Post by: Descan on November 29, 2012, 02:58:22 pm
No, we only try and "cure" them AFTER it's all settled down, and only IF one or more of them are under our complete control, and no hostile zombies remain.
Wasn't that clear?
Post by: Grek on November 29, 2012, 02:59:57 pm
Post by: Descan on November 29, 2012, 03:00:29 pm
Is it now?
Post by: LordBucket on November 29, 2012, 05:12:49 pm
I am, however, slightly concerned about the possibility that the necromancer who made them might notice if another necromancer takes control of his creations. Similarly, if we try to magically "look" nd confirm that it's Nightroar who made them, he might "see" us at the same time.
That would be bad.
Post by: RAM on November 29, 2012, 05:32:08 pm
Post by: NoahTophatz on November 29, 2012, 05:41:01 pm
Post by: Felius on November 29, 2012, 06:09:02 pm
maybe the kids are in a tree right on the edgeThat's something to worry about. When we see the zombies we can see what they are doing. If they are trying to clumsily climb and/or attack a tree, don't try to use necromancy. If they are just standing there, magical attacks should be safer to use.
I'd say start with Command Zombie on one of them, then let Omo and the controlled zombie deal with them. The zombie is disposable (and in fact will be disposed of after the battle), and Omo is a trained fighter. You are an untrained elven girl. If they attack you, drain Vitality or alternatively try to figure out if you can just cast a "Destroy Zombie" spell.
Let's avoid too much academics and research right now though, since we are still following a trail. We can't really afford to go spend too much time playing with the dead, we have to find those kids first. Besides, we are going to find more hostile undeads later on, we don't depend exclusively on this three.
Experiment for Later (or now if we have mana after the zombies): See if we can figure out how to do a "See Vitality/Detect Life/Detect Higher Lifeform" spell or the such. When we do, try to focus on animals bigger than a certain threshold (bigger than a small dog maybe?).
Couple experiments for much later: One is trying to figure out a outright "destroy vitality" spell. Something that you can do for cheaper in combat. Also, trying to expand on that to create a "disinfectant" spell, for cleaning up wounds and the like, killing anything that would cause an infection. Practice on animals first. In fact, practice on dead animals first, try to avoid some meat to rot, or something like that.
Post by: Descan on November 29, 2012, 10:42:43 pm
Post by: racnor on November 29, 2012, 11:04:55 pm
Finally, now that we can see the detailed threads of necromantic workings, lets see if we can unravel them.
Post by: Kitten Snot on November 30, 2012, 11:31:07 am
Also, seeing how we can "see" through the controlled zombie, we can also get some better bearings on why the zeds are there.
Post by: Phantom of The Library on November 30, 2012, 11:41:44 am
Post by: monk12 on November 30, 2012, 01:20:44 pm
1) Command Undead one zombie, Steal Vitality on another, allow Omo and hopefully now commanded zombie to take out the third
2) Command Undead one zombie, allow Omo and zombie to take on the other two zombies.
3) Steal Vitality on all. Destroy them from a distance, no mercy.
4) Command Undead all zombies, new personal search party.
5) Attempt new "Unravel Necromancy" spell, or similar way to destroy undead short of Vitality damage.
6) Avoid using magic unless Omo is overwhelmed, conserve MP
Go ahead and vote for whatever you want, in whatever order you want. I won't be prompting you for combat actions round by round- basically, give me a plan of attack and you'll execute it until the plan goes to hell (e.g the kids are right in that tree there, You/Omo gets seriously injured, new enemies enter the combat, spell produces unexpected effect, etc)
Current plan is "Look to see if the kids are right here/in a tree, see whether there is any existing "ownership" of zombies, execute attack plan X." Feel free to modify any or all of it. You aren't limited to the options you've already discussed, I'm just looking to redirect the conversation from "what are our options" to "this is what we'll do"
Post by: Theodolus on November 30, 2012, 01:43:11 pm
Post by: Felius on November 30, 2012, 01:44:00 pm
Number 4 is out as well, using zombies as a search party is an even worse idea right now. It ranks pretty much as "hey, let's reveal ourselves as necromancers". IF we do so, we must do after we are well established as a hero, so they might stop to give us the benefit of doubt before going for the torches and pitchforks.
I'd say, a mix of 2 with 6, Command Undead on one of them, and let the zombie plus Omo deal with the other two. Other than that, if Omo seems to be on a tight spot, jump in with Steal Vitality, but if he seems able to, let him handle it with only a single zombie of help.
If we miss the kids and they actually see it, bullshit it as secret elven powers and that now they are keepers of the secret. Hopefully if they start telling tales it will be dismissed as inflating the whole deal.
Do remember to tell Omo the plan btw, so he can actually expect one friendly undead (to be destroyed post battle, we can't afford to keep it around for now).
And heavily changing subjects, we need a better income source later. Looting ruins might be one of the best options if we can. Weapons, armor, potions, all this is kinda expensive.
Post by: Grek on November 30, 2012, 04:21:26 pm
Post by: LordBucket on November 30, 2012, 04:57:49 pm
I would say option 5
+1
Post by: RAM on November 30, 2012, 05:10:23 pm
2) Command Undead one zombie, allow Omo and zombie to take on the other two zombies.I would like two, it tests all our spells in uncontrolled circumstances and should leave us with some reserves. It seems like a good field test of our combat magic without exposing us much. And tell Omo to show no mercy to any that may or may not be controlled. The kids may be watching and we don't really want to be travelling with one...
Post by: Toaster on November 30, 2012, 09:13:18 pm
(PS: Neat thread. PTW in disguise)
Post by: Cellmonk on November 30, 2012, 09:22:11 pm
Always keep a good reserve of mana in case things get out of hand and you need to steal vitality from more foes than expected or attempt to heal a wounded companion.
I have a feeling stealing all their vitality could potentially exhaust us and leave us open to attack, but be prepared to use it as a last resort.
Post by: joemoben on November 30, 2012, 09:24:54 pm
Post by: Fireiy on December 01, 2012, 02:20:50 am
Post by: lockman766 on December 01, 2012, 02:53:05 am
Wonder if steal vitality could be used to heal Omo if he gets wounded.That's actually my theory. I don't think we should test it right now unless we get desperate.
Post by: Grek on December 01, 2012, 05:26:18 am
I have a feeling stealing all their vitality could potentially exhaust us and leave us open to attack, but be prepared to use it as a last resort.
Stealing the vitality of all three zombies will cost us 6 mana out of our 12, leaving us with 6 more mana to do whatever with. Plus the mana potion we have, in case of emergency, plus the fact that we'll regenerate our mana next time we sleep.
Post by: RAM on December 01, 2012, 06:24:30 pm
If we manage to command the undead, send them away.Not far, but away. If we look for the kids with them, or if the kids see them acting passive with us, they might tell the villagers that something odd happened.I would suggest that if we command an undead that it be deanimated promptly.
Post by: Felius on December 01, 2012, 06:55:50 pm
Yeah. If we command one, at most it will be good for the fight at hand, otherwise it should be destroyed promptly afterwards.If we manage to command the undead, send them away.Not far, but away. If we look for the kids with them, or if the kids see them acting passive with us, they might tell the villagers that something odd happened.I would suggest that if we command an undead that it be deanimated promptly.
Post by: Angle on December 01, 2012, 10:28:08 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
5, then 2, then wait and help with Steal Vitality if necessary.
Post by: racnor on December 03, 2012, 09:01:53 pm
+1Spoiler (click to show/hide)
5, then 2, then wait and help with Steal Vitality if necessary.
Post by: Cellmonk on December 03, 2012, 09:40:36 pm
+1+1Spoiler (click to show/hide)
5, then 2, then wait and help with Steal Vitality if necessary.
Reasoning:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Phantom of The Library on December 04, 2012, 01:30:31 am
And make sure to destroy the final zombie after combat, most especially if the kids are beyond the treeline.
Post by: Felius on December 04, 2012, 01:57:51 am
Post by: fergus on December 04, 2012, 03:37:49 am
Hhhhm, you do make a good point. I vote for 5, then two as well. Should command undead fail for some reason, attempt 3.+1
And make sure to destroy the final zombie after combat, most especially if the kids are beyond the treeline.
Post by: Ancre on December 05, 2012, 04:31:14 pm
Hhhhm, you do make a good point. I vote for 5, then two as well. Should command undead fail for some reason, attempt 3.
And make sure to destroy the final zombie after combat, most especially if the kids are beyond the treeline.
+1 from me too.
Post by: monk12 on December 06, 2012, 02:11:29 am
+1+1Spoiler (click to show/hide)
5, then 2, then wait and help with Steal Vitality if necessary.
Reasoning:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Hhhhm, you do make a good point. I vote for 5, then two as well. Should command undead fail for some reason, attempt 3.+1
And make sure to destroy the final zombie after combat, most especially if the kids are beyond the treeline.
Omo wipes his hands on his pants before hefting his quarterstaff. "The Rangers say that most zombies are slow and flimsy. Easy to defeat if you don't get spooked. We need to get by them to follow the trail- should we fight, or do you have a better idea?"
"Give me your hatchet. I want a better weapon than my belt knife."
Omo gives you a surprised look before rummaging through his pack. "Really? I thought you were going to magic them."
"I am." You take the proffered hatchet, hefting it. "I'm going to try and unmake them, if I can. Then I'll try to take control of the zombie furthest from you- you can team up on the remaining zombie."
"Unmake?"
"You know, like, unravel them. I can make them, so why not unmake them?"
"You can do that?"
"There's one way to find out."
Taking a deep breath, you attempt to concentrate on the zombies. You quickly give up the endeavor as fruitless, however- they are at the extreme edge of your Necromantic Sight, and you simply cannot see them well enough to manipulate the way you want to. You need to be closer.
"They're too far away. Help me sneak up on them."
Omo nods wordlessly, and begins to slowly creep through the grass. ... Omo carefully picks his way past thorny shrubs and hidden gopher holes, guiding you toward the zombies sixty feet away. Fifty feet. Forty.
When you are about thirty feet away, you put a hand on Omo's back, signalling him to stop. ... The moon rising beyond the forest casts deep shadows beneath the trees, the zombies illuminated only by the purple flame that dances in their eyes. You can see them clearly now that you are closer- in life, they were likely peasants, and they still wear their ragged tunics and stained pants. Your stomach turns at the stench of rotten meat. One zombie is missing an arm, a milky white shard of bone jutting out of the stump. The zombies have no weapons, and appear to be doing nothing more than standing idly, occasionally turning to face a new direction.
From here, you can see the shape of the necromantic energy in their bodies, if not the finer details. A great deal of it seems to be concentrated in the head, flowing down the spine and splitting off into the arms and legs. To your eyes, it's rather like being able to see the strings and sticks that move a puppet. Extending your will, you concentrate on the head of the nearest zombie- it appears to be the most important part of the zombie, and possibly the key to unraveling the undead. You can almost feel the necromantic energy there, with it's smooth, glassy texture. Suddenly, you find purchase, and you deftly begin to pull, attempting to unravel the fabric of the-
Impair Undead
You blink as the zombie's eyes flash once, then wink out. Immediately, the zombie throws its arms out and staggers around briefly before promptly tripping over a shrub. More worryingly, both the one-armed zombie and the third, furthest zombie turn toward the bush where you and Omo are hidden and begin purposely striding over to you.
Shouting wordlessly, Omo springs from your hiding place and charges toward the zombies, ... thrusting one end of his quarterstaff squarely into the one-armed zombie's chest. ... The zombie stumbles back from the force of the blow, but remains standing.
Acting quickly, you cast Command Undead on the zombie behind it and experience the familiar moment of vertigo as your consciousness floods the zombie. You become aware of everything the zombie is feeling- its joints and muscles are stiff and resist movement, its left leg is quite deteriorated as the rot has nearly reached the bone, and the zombie retains an impetus to find and kill human figures. Much like the crayfish what seems so long ago, you easily override its old actions and direct it to strike at the one-armed zombie reeling from Omo's blow. ... Your zombie swipes at the target with one hand, but misses as the enemy once again moves toward Omo.
The one-armed zombie rears back before swinging wildly at Omo, ... effortlessly smashing the staff from the elf's hands. ... The cold hand of the zombie scratches a furrow down Omo's arm as the elf dances back, cursing. Desperately, you direct your zombie to attack before One-arm can follow up its advantage, ... ... and this time the clumsy swing crashes into the side of the one-armed zombie's skull with a wet thud. One-arm collapses, the lights in its eyes winking out and the necromantic energy that animated the body dispersing.
Omo curses as the first zombie regains its feet, flailing around blindly. Scooping up his staff, Omo runs up to the impaired zombie ... and swings his staff like an overlong club, crushing the zombie's knee. ... The blind zombie collapses once again, its leg twisting uselessly under it. Before Omo can wind up to deliver the killing blow, your minion arrives and awkwardly kicks at the prone zombie, ... connecting with the chest ... and cracking its ribs. The zombie convulses once before lying still, dead once more.
Breathing heavily, Omo shouts happily. "Ha! Yes! There, that wasn't so hard."
You let out a breath you didn't know you were holding. "Are you alright?"
Omo's grin turns to a grimace as he examines his arm. "Yeah, it's just a scratch. It smarts, but it's not too bad. I just underestimated how hard those things can punch."
"Please try to hold onto your weapon in the future, you just about gave me a heart attack."
Omo ignores you, looking around on the ground. Walking over to where the zombies had been clustered, he crouched down before grunting to himself. "Well. The tracks of the children definitely run into the woods. For whatever reason, those three zombies stopped short of the forest. I wonder how long they've been standing here."
"Are you sure they're the same zombies?"
Omo shrugs. "Sure enough. I don't see anything to suggest otherwise, and it'd be a pretty big coincidence that three other zombies happened to wander to the exact location those kids ran into the forest. The question is, what do we do now?"
You shiver in the cold night breeze, eying the forest with distaste. It's quite dark in the thick growth beneath the branches, and you never did get a chance to ask about those rumors that the forest is haunted in some way. It's one thing to go searching for missing children, it's quite another to do so in the middle of the night in a cursed forest. Then again, you now know that the kids weren't caught by the zombies- it's quite possible that they are still alive, lost somewhere in that same forest. And speaking of zombies, you should probably do something about the one you're commanding.
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: NoahTophatz on December 06, 2012, 02:19:40 am
Post by: Cellmonk on December 06, 2012, 02:40:38 am
command the zombie to self terminate to get rid of another experiment
That. And we should have Omo try to find any tracks in the vicinity after we call out for the children. There is a reason the zombies are centralized here, and that could be some sort of grouping behavior engineered into them, or the children could be nearby (in which case they unfortunately saw an undead acting friendly to us). Unless there's a specific reason they all lost track of the children at that point.
We've learned something rather important from this. Apparently, even the lowest level zombies can immediately sense the direction of a magical attack. We still don't know what exactly constitutes a magical attack, but time will tell. We should be more careful about our use of magic in the future, and get Omo to train us to use a weapon.
We should check for supplies when and if we get back to town, and mark the location of the dead in case the townspeople wish to bury them or at least have the townspeople identify them in case they are those lost in the cottage. It would be good to know if the necromancers have the capability of creating a necromantic minion.
Post by: Felius on December 06, 2012, 06:52:39 am
And a couple planned experiments:
Trying to develop a destroy vitality spell, using the same principles of the steal vitality, except without keeping it usable. It might be possible to do it for cheaper or causing more damage for the same mana.
Trying to use the principles of the destroy vitality or the steal vitality spell for a disinfectant spell. It will require a lot of fine control, but it should theoretically be possible.
And a sidenote, try to get some anatomy and health care books once in a bigger town. It should be useful to understand how a body works, as that would allow more efficient undead minions.
Post by: Child of Armok on December 06, 2012, 07:57:52 am
Is there a max to the amount of vitality a zombie can have? And what happens if a zombie gets a lot of vitality?
Post by: Ancre on December 06, 2012, 10:04:34 am
command the zombie to self terminate to get rid of another experiment
This. We don't really have the leisure to take our time and play with our zombie right now, so let's get rid of him and of an experiment at the same time.
Then find the children. With a haunted forest we might have other, new and scary, opportunities to test our skills too.
Post by: Toaster on December 06, 2012, 10:19:09 am
Unless you just want it to beat itself to death, but then why not just command it to stand still while we get a little combat practice with that hatchet on it?
Post by: NoahTophatz on December 06, 2012, 10:41:52 am
Post by: Ancre on December 06, 2012, 11:07:46 am
Did we ever figure out how to do that? Last I recall, we couldn't actually kill a zombie with Command Undead.
Unless you just want it to beat itself to death, but then why not just command it to stand still while we get a little combat practice with that hatchet on it?
IIRC, we don't know how to do that, and we don't really know what a "terminate yourself" command would do. We do have an occasion to figure out, and a zombie to get rid of. Trying it and see what happens was something we wanted to do.
Post by: Angle on December 06, 2012, 12:28:32 pm
Post by: monk12 on December 06, 2012, 02:53:47 pm
Quote from: Chapter 1, Part 16
You move into the bushes by the side of the road, out of sight of passerby. Composing yourself, you cast Command Undead- it's easier now that you've practiced, and you command one of the minnows. You command, Die, but no response. Cease, Still, End, Self-Terminate... no luck. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=96692.msg2881921#msg2881921)
Sorry, my bad, I didn't properly update the "planned experiments" tab. That should all be square now, and I've added in the recently proposed experiments. Note that you've just tried to "will" a zombie to death, and have not ordered it to, say, jump off a cliff or something physically suicidal like that. Carry on!
Post by: Angle on December 06, 2012, 03:04:32 pm
Post by: Phantom of The Library on December 06, 2012, 03:43:12 pm
Or alternatively, have the zombie walk past the tree line before us after we make sure that the kids aren't withing sight range. This would test if there's any specific reason why they aren't entering like an insta-death field of some sort. If the undead can't enter for some reason it could be used as shelter for the village people.
Post by: Angle on December 06, 2012, 05:15:44 pm
Post by: Grek on December 06, 2012, 05:35:57 pm
We still don't know the location of the kids yet, we made need the mana and a Destroy Undead spell can be practiced just as easily on our own creations as it can be on this thing. I say we just have the thing stand still and cut off its head, then go search for the kids in the forest.
Or alternatively, have the zombie walk past the tree line before us after we make sure that the kids aren't withing sight range. This would test if there's any specific reason why they aren't entering like an insta-death field of some sort. If the undead can't enter for some reason it could be used as shelter for the village people.
This.
Post by: LordBucket on December 06, 2012, 06:29:21 pm
Quote
The cold hand of the zombie scratches a furrow down Omo's arm
Magically inspect Omo and his injury for traces of necromancy
We don't yet know know if it's contractible. Is the magic effect contagious? Do humans killed by zombies become zombies? Is transfer of fluids enough? We need to know, and if there are any necromantic traces left in Omo's injury Get it out.
Post by: Felius on December 06, 2012, 07:38:15 pm
well, okay then. We could try and refine our Impair Undead spell into a true Destroy Undead spell, or we could save our mana and just kill the zombie.Maybe later. Right now a hatchet to the head should be better. Order it not to move nor resist. That, or order it to bash itself on the head. We can try to refine the spell once we are in a more controlled situation.
First priority!!!!It shouldn't be, considering that there wasn't a complete zombie apocalypse yet, so most likely it's not contagious, at least not to that extent. There's also the fact that animating a zombie seems to require energy that other zombies can't provide. But it shouldn't take more than a minute to check his wounds for traces of necromancy with our expanded senses. But honestly, at most he's in danger of an infection if it is not cleaned once we have the time.QuoteThe cold hand of the zombie scratches a furrow down Omo's arm
Magically inspect Omo and his injury for traces of necromancy
We don't yet know know if it's contractible. Is the magic effect contagious? Do humans killed by zombies become zombies? Is transfer of fluids enough? We need to know, and if there are any necromantic traces left in Omo's injury Get it out.
Post by: Phantom of The Library on December 06, 2012, 10:42:04 pm
We should definitely check Omo's injury immediately, but I don't think that we have much to worry about. These are almost certainly good old raised corpses, not the modern viral zombie fad. All the same, I wouldn't put it past whichever necromancer we're facing to develop some sort of spell that makes injuries fester via the draining of vitality or something similar.
Post by: NoahTophatz on December 06, 2012, 10:52:24 pm
I wouldn't put it past whichever necromancer we're facing to develop some sort of spell that makes injuries fester via the draining of vitality or something similar.I don't think nightroar would be subtle enough for that based on his current tatics of copy all others necromancers and send in a large amount of zombies
Post by: racnor on December 06, 2012, 11:08:12 pm
Post by: RAM on December 07, 2012, 06:12:11 pm
Also, zombies not entering the forest may be a diplomatic measure. Sending a zombie into the forest may make the forest hostile to us...
Post by: racnor on December 07, 2012, 07:13:08 pm
This is probably not the time for it, but we may want to see what multiple impair undead spells on the same target do.I think there's more chance of a generally unfriendly trap/intelligence than one that specifically hates zombies. Besides, these zombies are to far from Curo to follow any command smarter than KILL! Something else has stopped them.
Also, zombies not entering the forest may be a diplomatic measure. Sending a zombie into the forest may make the forest hostile to us...
Post by: monk12 on December 13, 2012, 08:36:47 pm
First priority!!!!QuoteThe cold hand of the zombie scratches a furrow down Omo's arm
Magically inspect Omo and his injury for traces of necromancy
We don't yet know know if it's contractible. Is the magic effect contagious? Do humans killed by zombies become zombies? Is transfer of fluids enough? We need to know, and if there are any necromantic traces left in Omo's injury Get it out.
Good catch, I forgot about that.
We should definitely check Omo's injury immediately, but I don't think that we have much to worry about. These are almost certainly good old raised corpses, not the modern viral zombie fad. All the same, I wouldn't put it past whichever necromancer we're facing to develop some sort of spell that makes injuries fester via the draining of vitality or something similar.
You walk over to Omo and grab his arm, ignoring his protests. "Omo, you don't have any idea where that zombie's been! Let me clean it out." Thankfully, your Necromantic Sight reveals no traces of magic- you've heard stories of monsters that can spread like an infection, but you see nothing to suggest that these zombies possess that ability. You do see a fair bit of mud in the wound, though, and a brief glance at your controlled zombie's hands confirm that not only are they filthy, they are partially rotten. Taking the waterskin from Omo's pack, you carefully clean out the scratches before improvising a bandage out of a clean pair of socks.
"Would you cut that out, Nym! That smarts!"
"There are no Life Mages out here if you get an infection, you big baby. Hopefully that priest can do a better job of dressing it when we get back to the village."
Take this chance to more carefully examine the zombie up close before we doWe still don't know the location of the kids yet, we made need the mana and a Destroy Undead spell can be practiced just as easily on our own creations as it can be on this thing. I say we just have the thing stand still and cut off its head, then go search for the kids in the forest.
Or alternatively, have the zombie walk past the tree line before us after we make sure that the kids aren't withing sight range. This would test if there's any specific reason why they aren't entering like an insta-death field of some sort. If the undead can't enter for some reason it could be used as shelter for the village people.
This.
After admiring your handiwork on Omo's arm, you take the opportunity to admire the handiwork of some other Necromancer, presumably Curo Nightroar. The Necromantic Energy making up the zombie you've commanded is quite intricate. Whether this is due to the skill of the Necromancer, the quality of the base corpse, or your own improved Necromantic Sight is unclear- you'll have to raise some more zombies for comparison purposes. In life, the zombie was probably a middle-aged man. It's difficult to tell more than that, as much of the creature's flesh is rotten and bloated. The left leg is especially rotten, and upon closer inspection appears to have been mangled rather thoroughly.
With a thought, you direct the zombie to begin walking into the forest. Omo steps back in surprise. "What is it doing?"
"I'm sending it into the forest. I want to know if there's some reas...on..." Your mouth hangs open, astonished. As the zombie steps beneath the branches of the forest, it disappears from your Necromantic Sight.
Hastily, you command it to stop walking- you are still in direct mental contact. You can see the zombie obediently standing in front of a tree, but you cannot see the Necromantic Energy that animates it. You quickly review the zombie's status- it seems unharmed. Completely unchanged, in fact. Commanding it to turn around, you are again surprised by what the zombie sees- namely, nothing. You and Omo are invisible as far as the zombie is concerned, although it can still see the rock Omo is leaning against and the tall grass that rustles in the cold night breeze.
"It couldn't see them."
"What?"
"That's why the zombies didn't chase the kids any further. Once they got under the trees, the zombies couldn't see them, so they stopped chasing them."
"And just stood around all day?" Omo says doubtfully.
"I guess." You shrug. "Let me check this quick."
A quick experiment confirms your suspicions- when you swap places with your zombie, you remain invisible to the zombie's sense. Waving Omo to join you, you watch through the zombie's eyes as the elf disappears between one step and the next, right at the edge of the trees.
"So what does it mean? Why can't it see what's in the forest?"
"I don't know. It just can't."
Oh well, destroy the commanded zombie, and keep looking for the kids. If we manage to save the kids and the town wants to give us a reward, try to see if we can manage getting a polearm out of it. Also, once in town, remember to clean and treat Omo's wound.
well, okay then. We could try and refine our Impair Undead spell into a true Destroy Undead spell, or we could save our mana and just kill the zombie.Maybe later. Right now a hatchet to the head should be better. Order it not to move nor resist. That, or order it to bash itself on the head. We can try to refine the spell once we are in a more controlled situation.
"What are you going to do with... that?" Omo says, gesturing toward the zombie in distaste.
"I think I've learned all I can here." You say, commanding the zombie to lie down. "Do you want to do the honors?"
"Yeah, sure. Lovely." Omo hefts his quarterstaff, eying the zombie, then swings it over his head like a great club. The zombie's skull bursts like a rotten watermelon, splashing bits of grey matter and blood everywhere. Your stomach turns uneasily, and Omo glowers at the end of his staff, trying to wipe off the bloody mess in the dirt. "This Necromancy stuff is gross."
"Did I ever tell you about the fish I swallowed?"
"...no?"
"I'll tell you later, when my stomach isn't so queasy. Let's get on with it."
Omo quickly picks up the trail, leading the way into the forest. The ancient, gnarled trees stand tightly packed, choking away the undergrowth until all that remains is a carpet of dead leaves and fallen branches. The thick branches block all but the rarest shaft of moonlight. Omo is forced to give in to necessity and lights a torch, the light casting sinister shadows on the trees. You've never seen a malicious tree, but these come close, clawing past one another to reach the far away light- they seem to glower at passersby.
Despite the open space beneath the trees, the going is slow. The trail zigs and zags abruptly, and even crosses over itself once. The poor lighting helps disguise the trail in several places, where the children jumped over a log and changed direction, or where they doubled back after running headlong into a tree. Omo mutters angrily under his breath, suspiciously eying the shadows and rubbing his quarterstaff before returning to the search. The forest is quiet- perfectly silent except for the sound of your passage.
Finally, the trail leads into a small clearing. There is nothing to suggest why this particular bit of forest is free of the tall trees- the ground appears to be smooth and flat here, and clear enough for grass and weeds to push through the dead leaves. In the center of the clearing a pair of young trees rise out of the ground, vying with one another to reach the canopy and the life-giving light beyond. The open space in the canopy admits a wide swath of moonlight which clearly illuminates everything in the clearing.
Most notably, it illuminates the small child lying motionless on the ground, face down in the dirt.
Omo runs to the child, peering suspiciously into the shadows before kneeling beside the pajama-clad form. "He's alive!" Omo calls back softly, checking the boy.
"He's alive?"
"Yeah. Unconscious." Omo rolls the boy over, and you blink in surprise. The boy's eyes are open, staring at the sky. Omo wipes a dead leaf away from his face before checking his pulse. "Well. I don't know what's wrong with him."
"Are you sure he's unconscious? I didn't think your eyes stayed open when you went out."
"What do I look like, a doctor? He's unresponsive, anyway." Omo gets to his feet, inspecting the trail.
You take the boy in your arms, giving him a gentle shake. His head lolls to the side, but his eyes don't change. His heartbeat is fine, his breathing regular. He's quite cold- not like a corpse is cold, but like somebody who has been out in the elements too long is cold. Carefully, you bundle him in your cloak, unsure what to do.
"Nym! I found the girl!"
You look up as Omo returns from the edge of the clearing, carrying the child. Following your example, he wraps her in his cloak- just like her brother, the girl is physically fine, but unresponsive, her unseeing eyes gazing at nothing.
"This is bloody strange." Omo grumbles.
"What is?"
"As near as I can tell, the kids were just walking along, then fell. No other tracks nearby, no roots to trip on. They entered the clearing together, then the boy fell here in the middle, then the girl fell while she was running away. I think they've been lying here all day, Nym."
"They're certainly cold enough. How long does it take to die of exposure?"
"The weather's not bad, but it still gets plenty cold at night this early in the year. I doubt they'd have made it to dawn. I don't know if they'll make it back to the village, if they're catatonic."
The kids are in a bad way- you don't know what's wrong with them, but they need medical attention. This whole situation stinks. What do you do?
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: Grek on December 13, 2012, 08:42:35 pm
Post by: bombzero on December 13, 2012, 08:45:52 pm
Post by: Angle on December 13, 2012, 08:48:32 pm
Post by: Felius on December 13, 2012, 08:56:32 pm
But seriously though, yeah, I don't think there's anyway we can get too fancy here without creating major issues or deviating from what we entered the forest to do in the first place, that is, save the kids. So let's carry them back to the village. Do we have any spell in the prestidigitation book that might help?
Hmm, it probably is a waste of mana, but cast detect vitality and detect magic on them, plus examine them for signs of necromantic magic. It might tell us if there's anything wrong with them other than shock and physical illness. It's a bit of paranoia, but as Omo said, the situation looked quite strange. But either way, considering that, it's probably better if we don't take too long around here.
And on another note, we should run some experiments later to figure out if it's something about this particular forest, something about forest in general (unlikely, we'd have noticed it before), or the anti-necromancy wards the village mentioned.
Post by: Cellmonk on December 13, 2012, 09:12:05 pm
Good idea with the check vitality. Maybe we'll notice something.
Post by: Fireiy on December 13, 2012, 09:56:42 pm
Post by: Zako on December 13, 2012, 10:34:51 pm
Post by: Zavvnao on December 15, 2012, 04:59:05 pm
Post by: LordBucket on December 15, 2012, 07:31:23 pm
Once out of the zone, siphon a point of vitality from both Omo and ourselves and feed it to the kids. Then get them back to the village.
Post by: syvarris on December 16, 2012, 05:54:02 pm
Anyways, Omo can cast the minor stuff like detect magic, right? If so, we should have him cast that and sense vitality. Our mana is far more important than his. If anything is wrong with the kids, we should steal vitality from ourself and try to heal the kids a bit. Ourself because altruism is important if we're trying to be the "good" necromancer.
I wonder if we can turn living people into golems.
Post by: anailater on December 16, 2012, 06:04:21 pm
Also +1 reader.
Post by: Inithis on December 16, 2012, 07:17:33 pm
Post by: RAM on December 16, 2012, 07:39:30 pm
Post by: Angle on December 17, 2012, 01:55:53 am
Post by: monk12 on December 18, 2012, 12:59:39 am
Damn you Grek, bombzero and Angle you managed to post before me this time! :P
But seriously though, yeah, I don't think there's anyway we can get too fancy here without creating major issues or deviating from what we entered the forest to do in the first place, that is, save the kids. So let's carry them back to the village. Do we have any spell in the prestidigitation book that might help?
Hmm, it probably is a waste of mana, but cast detect vitality and detect magic on them, plus examine them for signs of necromantic magic. It might tell us if there's anything wrong with them other than shock and physical illness. It's a bit of paranoia, but as Omo said, the situation looked quite strange. But either way, considering that, it's probably better if we don't take too long around here.
And on another note, we should run some experiments later to figure out if it's something about this particular forest, something about forest in general (unlikely, we'd have noticed it before), or the anti-necromancy wards the village mentioned.
Yeah, seems pretty clear. Get to the village as fast as you can. The stable state of the children is bizarre... that doesn't sound like shock or hypothermia. maybe something stole their souls. In which case we should leave at once and have them examined and possibly saved all the faster.
Good idea with the check vitality. Maybe we'll notice something.
Dang it, I forgot about this! And I missed five updates!
Anyways, Omo can cast the minor stuff like detect magic, right? If so, we should have him cast that and sense vitality. Our mana is far more important than his. If anything is wrong with the kids, we should steal vitality from ourself and try to heal the kids a bit. Ourself because altruism is important if we're trying to be the "good" necromancer.
I wonder if we can turn living people into golems.
You suck air between your teeth, nervously glancing around the clearing. "I don't like this, Omo. Something is very wrong here. We need to get out of this forest as soon as possible."
"You said it. I wish there was more we could do for them, but the priest is probably better equipped for healing than we are."
"You remember your magic lessons, right Omo? Cast Sense Vitality on the kids."
"What, you don't remember? I thought you were the magic-type person here!"
"Don't be stupid- I want to conserve my Mana in case we run into something nasty. If the kids are in really bad shape, I think I have a way to help them."
Omo gives you a shocked look. "Nym, they're sick, or injured, not dead! You are a Necromancer, remember?"
"What did I just say about being stupid? I think I have a way to heal them- I've never done it to anyone else, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. Now shut up and cast the bloody spell so we can get out of here!"
Omo shrugs, then casts his spell. He grimaces at what he sees. "Nym, they're in pretty rough shape. Two vitality each. I don't know if it's just the cold, or a prior injury, or something else, but they need help."
"Will they make it to the village?"
"I think so. They should, anyway- I'll keep an eye on them, and let you know if they dip lower."
"Well, let's not waste any more time then. You know the way out of the forest?"
"Do I know the- now who's being stupid? Follow me!"
Omo scoops up the boy, cradling him in one arm and holding the torch up with the other. You take the girl, holding her to your breast with both arms. Although you have lost your sense of direction after all the twists and turns beneath the trees with no stars or moon to guide you, Omo confidently sets off into the forest, quickly leading the way forward. He does not twist or turn to follow the trail that lead you here, instead making straight for the edge of the forest.
At first, the quick pace is quite welcome, as you'd like nothing better than to leave the oppressive forest behind you. Soon enough, however, your legs begin reminding you that you have been on your feet all day, a day of walking that caps off almost a week of nothing but walking- really, you haven't had a day of rest since the Caravan Fair, what seems so long ago. The small girl in your arms felt almost weightless when you picked her up, but ten minutes of walking later she feels like a heavy sack of potatoes. Your stomach chimes in to remind you that rather than eating dinner tonight, you elected to go wandering around scary forests instead. Taken together, the silent complaints of your body are almost enough to make you forget the unwelcoming atmosphere of your surroundings. Almost.
Just when you think that you need to call for a brief rest even if you are still within the forest, Omo laughs in relief. Looking ahead, you can see the open plains of the countryside bathed in moonlight- it seems bright as day compared to the darkness beneath the trees. Another fifty feet, and you'll be in the clear.
Suddenly, you whip your head around, searching behind you in the forest. Coming up behind you is a source of Necromantic Energy- three Vitality's worth, forty five feet away but moving fast, coming straight at you.
Omo pauses, curiously looking back at you, wondering why you've stopped. Should you run for the edge of the forest? The forest floor is treacherous with branches and rocks in the dark, and your load is heavy, but you're a surefooted pair of young elves, and you think you can outrace whatever it is behind you. Then again, it is definitely Necromantic, and you certainly handled those zombies readily enough- you've been saving your Mana for just such an emergency. What should you do?
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: Felius on December 18, 2012, 01:08:53 am
Anyway, a single source of 3 vitality should be reasonable enough to deal with, and thanks to necro sight it can't really hide from us. Well, the decision depends on how fast it is I guess. Really fast as in: "Sprinting Humanoid", "Fast Lurching", "Running Wolf" or what?
It might be worth to get out of the forest or in a clearing for better line of sight.
Actually speaking of line of sight, 1. We should test later if concealed enemies that show on necrosight count for LoS. 2. The next second might be a good later to do so, by casting steal vitality at the necromantic source then keeping running.
Post by: Phantom of The Library on December 18, 2012, 01:12:22 am
Either way, confirm that it's hostile and cast Steal Vitality on the thing and then Impair Undead if it isn't finished off for some reason.
Post by: Grek on December 18, 2012, 01:14:16 am
Post by: Cellmonk on December 18, 2012, 01:20:55 am
Steal its Vitality. We have the mana, we have a spell we know will take this thing out, we should use them.
Agreed. We can't take chances here over the minute chance this thing is friendly. We shouldn't wait until line of sight if this thing happens to be a spy of any necromancer(s) (its speed sets it apart).
Post by: Felius on December 18, 2012, 01:22:54 am
No matter what we do though, tell Omo about it. A quick sentence should do. "Necromantic source coming from that direction, fast."
Maybe we can give the kid we are carrying to Omo so we are better able to cast Steal Vitality on it.
And on a different note: For the future: Trying to simulate Zombie Sight (that I believe got living beings highlighted), or some other version of "Detect Life/Lifeform/Heat".
Post by: Angle on December 18, 2012, 01:33:13 am
Or maybe we should try command zombie? That might tell us all sorts of interesting things. Then again, if this is an intelligent necromantic thing, it could resist our spell.
Post by: Child of Armok on December 18, 2012, 02:45:29 am
Post by: LordBucket on December 18, 2012, 03:22:16 am
It's 45 feet away. Let's...you know, turn around at look at it. If it is a zombie, just siphon its vitality to destroy it. If it's not a zombie, be prepared to have Omo take the kids while we figure out what to do about it, but not commit to having him run off in case we need him to thwack something.
Post by: Fireiy on December 18, 2012, 03:29:11 am
I suggest we identify what it is before we choose which spells to cast on it. "Source of necromantic energy, moving fast" does not necessarily mean a zombie.Good plan, as long as we can cast steal vitality quickly enough.
It's 45 feet away. Let's...you know, turn around at look at it. If it is a zombie, just siphon its vitality to destroy it. If it's not a zombie, be prepared to have Omo take the kids while we figure out what to do about it, but not commit to having him run off in case we need him to thwack something.
Post by: Angle on December 18, 2012, 04:14:27 am
Post by: RAM on December 18, 2012, 05:21:29 am
Post by: NoahTophatz on December 18, 2012, 06:57:39 am
It is doubtful that it will do any more to the children then it already has...Unless it was saving them for later
Post by: joemoben on December 19, 2012, 10:10:48 am
Post by: syvarris on December 19, 2012, 10:42:19 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on December 20, 2012, 12:29:24 pm
Post by: Felius on December 20, 2012, 01:21:00 pm
We won't have much energy to waste. Tell Omo to Run - keep it short and quick. And then MOVE. If it looks like it is going to catch up, steal vitality - we'll probably have to wait until it gets closer to succeed anyway. But be ready to do so. Although I honestly have my doubts as to whether or not that will work in this case - this forest obviously does strange things to necromantic energy. It's quite possible that there may be bad, bad results from using that sort of spell here.
Don't know, it looked more like a ward in the forest borders. But yeah, agreed on tell Omo short and quick, keep moving and if it gets too close, steal vitality on it. It's probably safer than trying to fight it normally.
Post by: GlyphGryph on December 20, 2012, 01:36:34 pm
Being able to duplicate the shielding wards and avoiding detection from the other necromancers for us and our creations?
We really can't ask for a better tool than that.
Post by: Felius on December 20, 2012, 01:53:37 pm
In other news, if we get out of this alive, I strongly suggest we actually rely on the goodwill of the thankful village and actually stay here a while. A big part of accomplishing our ultimate goal is learning things that will be used to us, and since this forest is ACTUALLY haunted, and clearly by something the other Necromancers don't seem to hold much truck with, its secrets may be incredibly useful to our ultimate goal of restoring our land... or at least of opposing the other necromancers.
Being able to duplicate the shielding wards and avoiding detection from the other necromancers for us and our creations?
We really can't ask for a better tool than that.
Aye. Staying for a while should be nice, and ingratiating ourselves to the villagers is a very good idea. It's one thing to believe that weird hermit living in a cave and meeting no one is a necromancer. It is another to believe that that cute and friendly elven girl is one, even if she has some weird powers. Those are probably weird elven magic anyway.
Or if we help them enough, save them enough times, it might even be possible to reveal ourselves to them and have them not form a mob. Don't count on it though, it's only realistically possible in villages where necromancy is but a remote story, not one plagued by zombies.
Post by: GlyphGryph on December 20, 2012, 03:54:21 pm
If we come out, don't come out as a Necromancer, come out as an AntiNecromancer or something. Some sort of special... Elven.. plot... well, we pull power from the same source, but put it towards different ends, basically. Our magic is developed specifically to fight necromancers!
Something like that... it could use some work, admittedly. Might not work against decently educated folk, but those are the ones we might be able to convince we can help. It's the commoners it would work against, and those are the ones who would be most hard pressed to accept us.
Still, that's all a bit early - for now we are merely a scholar mage and warrior of no particular allegiance.
Post by: LordBucket on December 20, 2012, 04:41:15 pm
We could recast and relabel ourselves. There are different sort of life mages, right?
If we come out, don't come out as a Necromancer, come out as an AntiNecromancer or something. Some sort of special... Elven
We can probably get away with simply claiming to do "elf magic." Odds are good the vast majority of humans won't know the difference, and even other magic users won't have seen necromantic magic up close enough to really be able to tell the difference.
Observers are more likely to pay attention what is done than any esoteric form of "I do magic X." If the priest uses divine magic to keep zombies out, or we use necromancy to order them away...the result is pretty similar. If a fire mage blows up a zombie or we unweave its magic and cause it to fall apart, who's going to argue the difference?
Our exact spellschool is unlikely to be an issue unless we make an issue of it.
Post by: Toaster on December 20, 2012, 04:49:42 pm
Post by: monk12 on December 20, 2012, 08:50:22 pm
Just keep running for the forest's edge. If it looks like it'll overtake us before we get there, steal vitality. Maybe heal a kid with it after, if the vitality seems okay.
The children are the first priority, get to safety outside of the forest first before trying to confront the thing, if necessary give the girl to Omo and delay the thing (if we can't get rid of it) until he can help.
Either way, confirm that it's hostile and cast Steal Vitality on the thing and then Impair Undead if it isn't finished off for some reason.
We won't have much energy to waste. Tell Omo to Run - keep it short and quick. And then MOVE. If it looks like it is going to catch up, steal vitality - we'll probably have to wait until it gets closer to succeed anyway. But be ready to do so. Although I honestly have my doubts as to whether or not that will work in this case - this forest obviously does strange things to necromantic energy. It's quite possible that there may be bad, bad results from using that sort of spell here.
You start running toward the edge of the forest, shouting at Omo. "Move it! There's something behind us!"
"Where? I don't see anything."
"I can see it, now RUN!"
Although clearly somewhat confused by what's happening, Omo wastes no time in running after you, quickly overtaking you with his long stride. As you duck between the trees and jump over shadowy roots, you glance over your shoulder, trying to get a better idea of what exactly you're fleeing from. Unlike the zombies, your pursuer sheds no light on its surroundings- you catch glimpses of purple only because of your Necromantic Sight. It doesn't seem to be very large, whatever it is- about as big as a dog, rumbling easily along the forest floor.
... A long, rotted log suddenly looms in the darkness, but you easily climb over while Omo hurdles it without even breaking stride. As you rush through the trees, you see that your pursuer has a much more difficult time of it, taking the long way around the obstacle.
A few strides later, you burst out into the open grass, putting a safe distance between yourselves and the forest. You anxiously eye the treeline, looking for sign of your pursuer- as before, however, your Necromantic sight does not seem to extend into the forest, and the darkness beneath the trees is too thick to see very far. Tensely, you and Omo watch the forest for several long moments, but nothing emerges into the moonlight. The only sound is the wind rustling the grass around you.
Carry the kids outside of this strange magic zone we're in. And do it fast. It's possible whatever rendered them unconscious could affect us too if we stay here too long.
Once out of the zone, siphon a point of vitality from both Omo and ourselves and feed it to the kids. Then get them back to the village.
Dang it, I forgot about this! And I missed five updates!
Anyways, Omo can cast the minor stuff like detect magic, right? If so, we should have him cast that and sense vitality. Our mana is far more important than his. If anything is wrong with the kids, we should steal vitality from ourself and try to heal the kids a bit. Ourself because altruism is important if we're trying to be the "good" necromancer.
I wonder if we can turn living people into golems.
Omo sighs. "I think we're safe, Nym. Whatever stopped the zombies must have stopped whatever was chasing us, unless it's invisible. You did see it, right?"
"Well, only with my Necromantic Sight, but I don't see it now. How are the kids?"
Omo carefully examines his charge, frowning. "The boy is unchanged- I had really hoped that getting out of the forest would snap him out of his coma." He groans softly when he leans over to check the girl in your arms. "She's slipping, Nym- down to one Vitality. She might make it back to village, but..."
"But I'll feel better if she isn't on death's door the entire trip back. Let me try something."
Crouching down, you lay the girl out on the ground, her eyes flashing in reflected moonlight. You quickly rule out stealing Vitality from a tree in the forest- quite apart from potential monsters lurking there, you aren't sure how far you can carry Vitality, or what effect the odd barrier around the forest might have on the spell. You briefly consider trying to harvest Vitality from the grass around you, but decide that there's one source of Vitality you should test first, a source that is always nearby, a source that hurts nobody else. Yourself, of course.
Taking a quick breath, you cast the spell before you really think about how much this experiment will hurt. The good news is that the spell resolves, and you begin Stealing Vitality out of yourself- slowly, attempting to draw only what is needed. To your surprise, in the time it takes you to extract a little ball of One Vitality you find you've only spent One Mana!
The bad news is that it does hurt, about as much as your Undead Oak mishap. You shudder as you let out your breath. You feel like you did a bellyflop in the Great River back home, with the stinging spread all across your body. Tired muscles complain of new aches as a fresh layer of fatigue settles in. It's not the worst you've ever been injured (that time you broke an arm falling out of a tree as a child comes to mind,) but it's certainly not a terribly pleasant experience.
Taking another breath, you set aside your discomfort and focus on directing the floating glowing blob of Vitality. Carefully, you touch it to the girl, and it soaks into her body like water into a sponge. You glance up at Omo as he leans over the girl.
"Two Vitality." Omo nods, sighing. "Whatever you did worked, Nym."
"Good. I gave her some of my own Vitality. It sucked, but if she makes it then it was worth it."
"Huh." Omo's mouth twists distastefully, then he shrugs. "Well, no point in waiting around here. Let's go back to the village."
Omo leads the way back to the west, and soon you hit the road a little south of the farm. The walk back is long and tiring, but uneventful- if there are any zombies wandering in the night, you don't encounter them. Judging by the height of the moon, it's nearly midnight by the time the lights in the village of Bedscaled wink in the distance.
Suddenly, a shadowy figure lurches out of the darkness. "Oy! Who are you, coming from the East in the night!?!"
"Do you think we're zombies, carrying torches around?" Omo scoffs at the pitchfork-wielding villager. "We found those kids who were missing. Rismal and Nelti. They aren't well- go get the priest!"
The villager starts, peering closer at your burden, then wordlessly turns around and runs to the village. He isn't wordless for long- as you trudge after him, you hear him calling out to other villagers. Soon, you are met by villagers armed with farming implements and old, rusty weapons, watchmen who had been guarding against another zombie attack. The clamor they raise is a peculiar blend of happiness to see the children alive, and worry over their catatonic state. The few houses with candles still lit disgorge sleepy men and women who had stayed up late to listen for news, or perhaps because they were unable to sleep in the first place. All in all, it's a small crowd that accompanies you to the Temple.
As you approach the stairs to the Temple, the wooden double doors crash open, disgorging Eko Cleanvise. Moving surprisingly quickly for such a large man, the priest hurries over to you and Omo, examining the children tensely. He sighs, seeming to deflate as he takes in their appearance. "You found them in Aloclesno, didn't you?"
You blink in surprise. "Yes. It seems they fled there to escape the zombies. How did you know? Have you seen... this, before?" You say, indicating the sightless children.
Eko runs a hand through his thinning hair. "No, nobody has been foolish enough to venture into the forest in years. In my lifetime, none who have have ever returned. The histories are clear about what happens to those who trespass there, though. Bring them inside, I will do what I can."
"Will they be alright, Eko?" A voice in the crowd calls out, followed by a worried murmur.
"I said I'd do what I can!" Eko says, raising his voice. "Go back to your homes! Go back to the watch- a fine thing if the zombies came while you were all gossiping on my steps!"
The crowd disperses quietly as you follow Eko inside the Temple. The Temple of Atal is not so large as the Temple in Larathor, nor is it decorated as lavishly, but it follows the same general format. The main doors lead to an atrium that resembles a broad hallway more than the open space you knew from Larathor, but it is similarly decorated with simple patterns and religious depictions. Eko leads the way into the inner chamber, a broad, perfectly square room filled with wooden benches surrounding an open square in the middle. The benches have been shoved aside to make room for a half dozen cots on the other side of the room- one of them is occupied by a snoring man whose body is obscured by the heavy blanket covering him. The opposite wall has another set of doors in it, identical to the ones you entered through.
Omo follows Eko over to one of the empty cots, laying the small boy down. Relieved of his burden, Omo stretches and sighs, resting himself on another cot.
"Thank you for rescuing the children, though I do not know if they will recover. I'll get you some food and blankets as soon as I see to the children- you're welcome to stay as long as you'd like."
"That sounds good." Omo says, knuckling his back. "I'm starved, and I just might sleep until noon if I get the chance. I hope you're not planning to wake me up at the crack of dawn again, Nym. Nym?"
Omo looks curiously to where you've stopped, still holding the girl just inside the outer door. Your thoughts whirl as you stare at the floor- the simple wooden planks are uninteresting, but somewhere below them is a source of Necromantic Energy. Three Vitality strong, maybe a dozen feet away, and you only became aware of it just as you crossed the threshold of the Temple.
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: Angle on December 20, 2012, 09:11:18 pm
Post by: Toaster on December 20, 2012, 09:18:09 pm
The plot thickens! Well, now this is interesting. Watch and wait, watch everything, the priest, the temple, the necromantic source, see what he does with the girl, and when possible, bring Omo in on this little secret. When you're outside the temple, of course.
+1
We need to investigate, but not obviously.
Post by: gman8181 on December 20, 2012, 09:25:22 pm
Post by: Phantom of The Library on December 20, 2012, 09:44:44 pm
+1 again.The plot thickens! Well, now this is interesting. Watch and wait, watch everything, the priest, the temple, the necromantic source, see what he does with the girl, and when possible, bring Omo in on this little secret. When you're outside the temple, of course.
+1
Post by: LordBucket on December 20, 2012, 10:15:06 pm
When we have a discrete moment, use our necromantic sight to view through the eyes of whatever it is that's down there. Try to identify both it and its surroundings.
Post by: Grek on December 20, 2012, 11:52:05 pm
Post by: Angle on December 21, 2012, 01:54:33 am
Post by: NoahTophatz on December 21, 2012, 03:24:07 am
I really hope it's this
Post by: Ancre on December 21, 2012, 03:43:47 am
+1 again.The plot thickens! Well, now this is interesting. Watch and wait, watch everything, the priest, the temple, the necromantic source, see what he does with the girl, and when possible, bring Omo in on this little secret. When you're outside the temple, of course.
+1
+1.
Watch over the kids too, it would be a shame to see them die in the hands of an evil double agent or something, after all the trouble we had bringing them here. We can say we're worried about them.
Post by: RAM on December 21, 2012, 08:12:14 am
Omo should have seen it, so it was probably invisible, and may well be beyond the scope of nonmagical combat...
Look for a place that you can run to where you can steal vitality without the priest seeing you do it.
Post by: GlyphGryph on December 21, 2012, 09:16:47 am
For now, keeping in on the download is definitely the thing to do. And yeah, keep an eye on the kids - once the priest leaves, we can pass Omo a note.
I'm glad we saved our mana instead of using it in the forest.
Post by: Felius on December 21, 2012, 10:38:49 am
An option for the temple might be sending an undead roach or small rat down there while controlling it to check with its eyes instead of going down there. It's a bit of a risk in case anyone here can detect necromantic energy, but even if they can, it does not tell that we are those necromancers. Unless the necromancer is the priest himself, and he sees it, deducing there is a new necromancer around and since we are the new comers...
Anyway, the controlled undead animal might also be a useful idea to explore the forest and in the future. Do we keep our necromantic senses with the undead's eyes? And we need to check if we have limited range with it.
Post by: bombzero on December 21, 2012, 02:41:11 pm
The options I see are.
1. Try to convert the priest to our cause, risky, but might be damned helpful as the entire town seems to listen to him.
2. Try to recover this object stealthily, safer but possibly difficult in its own right.
3. Question the priest if any artifacts of necromantic power have ever been foretold to be in the area, explaining that you're hoping to learn something that can help you combat the necromancers abroad, if this works out well, refer to option 1.
Post by: Toaster on December 21, 2012, 02:44:34 pm
While I don't think the priest is actively working for the enemy, he's not our friend, and I don't see that changing any time soon. Working around him is probably our best bet- I doubt we can work with him and we'll piss off the village if we try to go through him.
Post by: RAM on December 21, 2012, 08:33:13 pm
Post by: Angle on December 21, 2012, 09:34:31 pm
I still think it's a monster...
Post by: Zako on December 22, 2012, 12:48:09 am
Post by: bombzero on December 22, 2012, 04:03:59 am
Too hard to tell. It might be an artefact, like the one we saw before, that's been forgotten here. OR it might be something planted there by necromancer allies to help foil the wards. Remember how the wards didn't seem to work when we entered the village? This might be the reason why...In that case we should probably question the safety of removing it...
Post by: lockman766 on December 23, 2012, 09:04:28 pm
Post by: Felius on December 23, 2012, 09:57:15 pm
Kill the animal without leaving marks so, in case anyone sees we interacting with it afterwards, it's special elven magic for influencing animals.
Post by: Angle on December 23, 2012, 10:26:44 pm
Post by: Felius on December 23, 2012, 10:29:45 pm
Let's hold off on necromancy for the time being, it'd be real awkward if we set off the wards and revealed ourselves as a necromancer.Cast it away from the village("We are going to scout around a bit."), and don't get near it while inside the village. Unless the priest is a necromancer himself and the only one in the region (not including us), at the worst they will detect a small undead animal and be paranoid of small animals for a while.
Post by: bombzero on December 23, 2012, 11:09:12 pm
Let's hold off on necromancy for the time being, it'd be real awkward if we set off the wards and revealed ourselves as a necromancer.Cast it away from the village("We are going to scout around a bit."), and don't get near it while inside the village. Unless the priest is a necromancer himself and the only one in the region (not including us), at the worst they will detect a small undead animal and be paranoid of small animals for a while.
So basically with your plan we either...
A) find out what the source is without revealing ourselves. (likely)
B) Discover a potential ally. (unlikely)
Sounds good to me.
Post by: Felius on December 23, 2012, 11:12:44 pm
Let's hold off on necromancy for the time being, it'd be real awkward if we set off the wards and revealed ourselves as a necromancer.Cast it away from the village("We are going to scout around a bit."), and don't get near it while inside the village. Unless the priest is a necromancer himself and the only one in the region (not including us), at the worst they will detect a small undead animal and be paranoid of small animals for a while.
So basically with your plan we either...
A) find out what the source is without revealing ourselves. (likely)
B) Discover a potential ally. (unlikely)
Sounds good to me.
Well, there is a risk, to be honest, as if the priest is in fact the necromancer and detect our scout, it doesn't mean he'll be friendly to us. But even so, we should have enough time to try to skip town if needed.
Post by: NoahTophatz on December 23, 2012, 11:35:15 pm
Post by: Felius on December 23, 2012, 11:40:01 pm
the priest may not be the only person who works at the temple we should carefully ask about the amout of people at the templeSmall village temple. Maybe some caretaker that by one reason or another isn't fit for other work or an altar boy to help the priest, but most likely he does all the routine work with village folk/kids with spare free time occasionally helping, specially when there's need for heavier maintenance work.
Post by: monk12 on December 24, 2012, 01:58:07 am
+1.+1 again.The plot thickens! Well, now this is interesting. Watch and wait, watch everything, the priest, the temple, the necromantic source, see what he does with the girl, and when possible, bring Omo in on this little secret. When you're outside the temple, of course.+1
Watch over the kids too, it would be a shame to see them die in the hands of an evil double agent or something, after all the trouble we had bringing them here. We can say we're worried about them.
the priest may not be the only person who works at the temple we should carefully ask about the amout of people at the temple
"Nym?"
You regain your composure, covering the lapse with a wide yawn. "Sorry, just tired." You carry the girl over to the cots, setting her down next to her brother. You keep your mind on the unexpected source of Necromantic Energy, but it does not seem to move at all, not even a little. You stand still for a moment, considering this information, before uncertainly lowering yourself onto the next cot over. It certainly feels good to be off your feet, and you stretch, trying to catch Omo's eye to signal that he should be alert- unfortunately, your friend is sprawled out on the cot on the far side of the children, kicking off his boots and making himself comfortable.
Eko Cleanvise kneels in between the children, rummaging around his robes until he withdraws a short stick of white chalk. Carefully, he draws an inverted triangle on the girl's forehead, then a circle inscribed within it.
"What are you doing?" You ask curiously.
"I'm casting a spell to divine the nature of the child's... affliction." Eko murmurs, concentrating on his task.
"Oh. So what's the weird symbol for?" You ask curiously.
Eko blinks in surprise, then shrugs. "Well, technically, nothing. It is an aid to concentration, which will help me cast this spell in a reasonable time frame. Order magic requires your thoughts to be very clear and exact- orderly, I suppose you could say." He chuckles. "Sorry, just a little Wizard humor."
"Wizard? I thought you were a priest." Omo says, rolling over to observe the spell.
"I am a Wizard by virtue of my inherent magical ability and training at the Wizard's College in Atkilpeme, and I am a Priest of Atal by virtue of my theological training and commitment to community service. Not all Wizards are priests, and not all priests are Wizards. Forgive me, but I must clear my mind of distractions to successfully cast this spell."
So saying, Eko focuses his attention on the comatose girl, steepling his hands before him. At first, nothing seems to be happening, but then you notice a faint, nearly imperceptible white light enveloping the child. Slowly, the light intensifies into a bright, even glow surrounding the girl from head to toe, almost seeming to radiate from her. Suddenly the light flashes, causing you to blink from the brightness. It flashes again, then again, then four times in quick succession. A few moments after the final flash, the glow fades away and Eko sighs heavily.
"Well. It is as I feared- there is no physical cause for their stupor. She hasn't eaten or drank for almost two days now, and she's borderline hypothermic, but that's nothing a few days of bed rest won't cure. I'll confirm that Rismal is in the same state as Nelti, but I'll have to wait until tomorrow morning to be absolutely sure- that spell is a bit involved, and I do not have the Mana to cast it tonight." Eko shakes his head sadly, producing a small brass flask from beneath his robes and taking a quick drink.
"You said you thought you knew what was wrong. That this is what happens to the people who enter the forest." You prompt the priest.
Eko nods, wiping his mouth. "Yes. Aloclesno is a cursed place, cursed by Balkoth the Necromancer more than a thousand years ago."
"Balkoth?" You say, surprised.
"It happened in the final years of the Golgothan War... well, just a moment." Eko says, standing. "The story is a long one, and the children need food. And you as well, unless I miss my guess." He says wryly as Omo perks up. "Give me a few minutes to warm up some soup, and I'll tell you all about it."
Agreed. Play it safe. Inform Omo. Don't make waves or tell the priest. We do need to identify it, but it's possible that whatever it is might have been there for centuries, and the priests might not know about it. If it's some ancient zombified whatever that was buried after a battle then the temple built on top of it...it might be best to leave it buried.
When we have a discrete moment, use our necromantic sight to view through the eyes of whatever it is that's down there. Try to identify both it and its surroundings.
I have yet to see a convincing argument that the necromantic energy source is something that we wish to come into direct contact with. At least wait to see if it charges at folk and sucks out their vitality, felling them mid-stride...
Let's hold off on necromancy for the time being, it'd be real awkward if we set off the wards and revealed ourselves as a necromancer.
Eko disappears through the doors opposite the entrance, the swinging door giving you a brief glimpse of a small, well-furnished room beyond. Carefully, you wait a moment to be sure he's well away. Looking down the line of cots, you check on the sleeping man you noticed when you came in- he appears undisturbed by the conversation in the room, breathing deeply and evenly. Even so, you get up and walk over to Omo, leaning over his cot.
"There's something in the basement." You say softly.
Omo looks at you in confusion before comprehension dawns on his face. Sitting up quickly, he puts a hand on the quarterstaff he had set on the floor. "Something... you're familiar with, right? One of those?"
"Right." You nod. "I don't know what, exactly."
"Can't you tell?"
"Well..." You chew your lip thoughtfully. "It could be our friend from the forest. It could be something that's been there for years, and they just don't know about it. It could be an artifact. It could be something else entirely. If it's undead, I could try to Command it, but that's hard to do when you don't know what exactly you're commanding. You need a certain amount of empathy for that. I could guess randomly, it might work, I suppose. I could even make a little spy for us, but I don't know if any of that would give us away. I don't know enough about his wards, and if it's something unexpected down there, well..."
"So what do we do, then?" Omo hisses.
"It hasn't moved an inch since we got here, so I don't think it's an immediate threat. Just, keep your eyes open. We don't know what it is, and we don't know if our host knows about it."
"You think the priest might be...?"
"I don't know, okay? Just play it by ear."
You return to your cot as Omo lowers himself back onto his, grumbling under his breath. You lie down- the cot is surprisingly comfortable, and you are quite tired. Before long, Eko returns with a steaming pot in his hands, his head nearly obscured by the blankets he has draped over himself. After setting the pot down, he gives you and Omo each a large, thick blanket and a wooden bowl. You identify some kind of crusty bread at the bottom of the bowl before Eko ladles hot broth over it with a long wooden spoon, as well as some bits of meat and vegetables he scoops off the bottom of the pot.
You eat in silence while he serves Omo- the soup is quite good, if plain. You suspect the chicken that provided the meat was a bit past its prime, but after a long day of nothing but trail rations the hot soup is quite welcome. You finish the bowl while Eko repeats his earlier spell, this time checking the boy. He shakes his head upon completing the spell, then ladles a small spoonful of broth out of the pot. After carefully blowing on it, Eko gently feeds the boy, rubbing his throat to make him swallow.
"Thank you for the meal." You say, breaking the silence. "Do you cook for yourself a lot?"
"For the most part, yes. Usually I'm the only one here- sometimes a goodwife will bring me some dinner if they're feeling charitable, but normally I fend for myself with the stipend the Empire gives me. This particular meal, however, comes to us courtesy of Ado Drunkenstumbles' wife." Eko nods at the sleeping man at the other end of the room. "I always eat better when I'm tending to the sick, and for a while after, too- while their gratitude lasts, anyway."
"Mmm. So is that what you do here, then?"
"Tend the sick, teach the children, officiate ceremonies, the usual, yes. That, and maintain the wards." Eko replies, feeding the boy another spoonful.
"I heard you mention the wards earlier. What exactly do they do?"
"They keep the undead at bay. It's an important duty, especially with Aloclesno so close."
"Yes, but how do they work, exactly? I heard they didn't work for some reason, on the farms last night."
"They worked, as far as I can tell." Eko scowls. "They're still up, still working. It should have been impossible for the zombies to get past- the wards block their sight, and create something like an aversion. They should have avoided the place, and certainly not seen anything within the wards to attack. I need to find out how they bypassed those wards- until I do, the whole village is at risk."
"All they do is block sight? What if the zombies just blundered in?"
"It's possible, technically, but unlikely. Certainly not for three separate attacks. From what I understand, the undead aren't very bright and they simply do not have curiosity- those farmhouses should have been no more interesting than a roadside boulder, something to walk around, not through." Eko finishes feeding the boy, and moves on to the girl.
"And these wards are around the forest, too? Aloclesno?"
"Yes. Aloclesno... well, I'll start at the beginning, back during the Golgothan War. When Balkoth invaded Thrimesdur, his forces were divided in two- an army of mostly undead led by Balkoth sweeping up to threaten Atkilpeme from the south, and a larger force made up of the Golgothans and Balkoth's lieutenants who fought their way from the East. The bulk of the Imperial forces were tied up on the Eastern front engaging the much larger army there. Balkoth smashed the first army sent against his force, and drove the remnants back into Aloclesno."
"They retreated back into the forest? Just like these children did."
"Indeed, but at that time Aloclesno was just another forest, a fine source of lumber for the surrounding villages, nothing more. The leader of that army was one of the Emperor's sons, and he was known as Girus the Fox for his cunning in battle. Although he could not defeat Balkoth in the open field, he knew he couldn't allow Balkoth to march to Atkilpeme uncontested. Girus rallied surrounding villages to make up for his lost numbers and began waging a guerrilla campaign, slashing at Balkoth's flanks, disrupting his supply lines, and using the farmers' knowledge of the surroundings to strike hard at zombies away from the main army before falling back to Aloclesno."
"Supply lines? How many supplies does an army of undead need?"
"There were enough Golgothans with his force that the disruption was quite costly, and even the undead couldn't loot all the equipment they needed to fight effectively against the seasoned veterans awaiting them in Atkilpeme. In any event, the threat from his rear was enough to stop Balkoth's advance. He was unwilling to spend the time and resources it would take to root out Girus and his army from their position in the forest, where the defenders would have a decided advantage, and he was also unwilling to leave such a large, competent force at his back while he marched on the capital. So instead, he took a third option. Balkoth released a monster in the forest."
"A monster? What do you mean?"
Eko shrugs. "Nobody knows. Nobody saw it. Nobody is even sure that it was a monster- it could have been some kind of Necromancy never before seen, never used since, though anecdotal evidence suggests that it was a creature of some kind. All we know is that soldiers living in the forest started to... well, they didn't die, is the worst part. They were as the children are now- unresponsive, seemingly lifeless but still breathing, still alive. The Living Dead, some scholars call it. It spread like a plague- first a handful of soldiers, then another dozen, then a company. Every morning, men would rise to find more of their comrades already awake, but unaware."
"But, what was wrong with them?"
"They didn't know at first- cripplingly, their Wizards had died in the initial confrontation with Balkoth, and by the time they knew what was going on it was too late. After a few days, desertion was rampant, and Girus was forced to withdraw from the forest with a fraction of his army. Hounded by zombies, he withdrew to the West, hoping to raise another army before Balkoth could sack Atkilpeme. They managed to bring some of the afflicted to the cities on the Great River, and the Wizards there were able to identify the problem- the soldiers had had their souls removed." Somberly, Eko raises his flask to his lips.
You are silent for a long moment. "Uh... what's a soul?" Omo asks, scratching his head.
Eko coughs, spluttering on his drink. "What's a.. what's a soul? Did you pay no attention to your priest, boy?"
"We're, ah, from far away." You say carefully. "Maybe we call it something else."
"Far away..." He gives you a considering look, then stabs a finger at you. "You, my dear, are an elf."
"I- well, yes. We don't advertise the fact- we prefer to keep a low profile."
Eko shakes his head. "I should have figured it out before now- your clothes and appearance are enough, if I hadn't been distracted by the children. I'm sure you have a story to tell, but you're my guests, and I won't make you tell it if you don't want to. Well. The soul is... it's the animating spirit, I suppose you could say. Everything living has one- humans, elves, animals, bugs... well maybe not bugs, I've never asked. Think of a zombie- they walk around, their bodies move, but they aren't really alive. They don't think, they have no ambition, no personality- they're just empty shells. Your body is just a sack of meat that carries you around, and the part of you that is uniquely you is the soul."
"Oh. And those soldiers, these kids... they lost that?"
"Yes." Eko says heavily. "In some way, these children are already dead. With daily care their bodies could go on for years, but there's nothing really there, inside."
"But they're otherwise fine, right? If they got their soul back, they'd be good as new?"
"Well, I suppose, but somehow I doubt there is still a soul to return, even if there was some way to do it." Eko says, taking another draw from his flask.
"So the wards around the forest are there to keep the monster in?"
"Yes, and also no. It wasn't clear that the forest was still dangerous until after the Golgothan War, when some of the farmers and lumberjacks who entered never came back. They were found in the same state as the soldiers had been, and the forest was quickly declared off-limits. Nobody has ever been attacked outside the forest, but just for safety the forest is ringed with wards maintained by local Wizards, and many of the nearby farms and settlements have an additional ward as well. Every now and then somebody will go into the forest for some fool reason or other, but the result is always the same- they never return, and those that aren't given up for dead are found like this."
The priest sadly watches the children for a long moment, then visibly collects himself. "Well! I've rambled enough with my old stories- I'm sure you would like to get some sleep tonight. I'll be just through the next door here if you need anything. Sleep well." Moving around the room, Eko dims the lanterns in the corners, leaving only one burning low before retiring deeper into the Temple.
Yawning, you burrow into your blankets, the priest's story churning through your mind. It doesn't seem right that the children will die anyway, after all you did to bring them out of the forest. You ponder the nature of Balkoth's spell- if it was Necromancy, then it could be something you can replicate, if you can piece together how. The Necromantic presence beneath you still hasn't moved- another mystery. With another yawn, you drift off to sleep, already thinking about what you will do tomorrow.
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: NoahTophatz on December 24, 2012, 02:15:34 am
If the farm is abandoned then we can head there and experiment on the wards
Post by: LordBucket on December 24, 2012, 02:30:41 am
* Remove someone's soul. Try to store it for a time in a living thing like a tree, or confine it in a mana crystal, then put it back later. See if they're functional.
* Attempt to swap souls between two different bodies.
* Carefully attempt to displace our own soul from our own body. See if we can move around apart from our bodies, like astral projection. See if we can cast while in this state, enter other occupied bodies like a possession, then return to our body later.
Post by: Ancre on December 24, 2012, 02:59:31 am
Can we control the kids as if they were zombies ? I don't know how useful this could be, but perhaps we will find something. Then again it's probably a bad idea as well.
I'd say we focus on discovering what's the necromantic source first.
Then maybe go and look out for souls in the forest, if we deem it worth the risk.
Post by: Cellmonk on December 24, 2012, 03:04:40 am
EDIT: If he is a necromancer, don't be quick to antagonize him. He might just be another closet necromancer, like us. Maybe they are more common than is recorded.
Post by: LordBucket on December 24, 2012, 03:32:46 am
As for the kids...right now we don't know how to help them. If we spend some time experimenting with soul magic we might be able to track down their souls and put them back in their bodies. If you guys think it's too dangerous or just generally a "bad idea" to be involved with that kind of magic...then there's nothing else we can do for them.
We have more important things to be doing than mucking around in this village. We either discretely try to find out more about the necromantic source beneath the temple, and/or we look into soul magic to try to help the kids...or if we're not going to do either of those things, then let's just leave and resume our journey.
I don't mind staying if we're accomplishing something or being helpful, but I see no reason to endanger ourselves by telling people that we have ties to or abilities that relate to necromancy.
Post by: Ancre on December 24, 2012, 04:27:29 am
The problem with experiments on soul magic is that you need a soul to experiment on. And for some reason I doubt anybody is going to willingly let us play with theirs. Especially if we don't know what we're doing and trying stuff just to see what happens.
Fakedit : Thinking of it again, we might be able to experiment that on little animals or something. Hm.
Post by: Grek on December 24, 2012, 05:12:31 am
Post by: NoahTophatz on December 24, 2012, 05:16:25 am
This is our big chance to prove that we're on the side of Good. We should be able to turn the curse afflicting Aloclesno back upon itself with a single spell: Just find spirit we encountered in the forest, cast Command Undead and order it to do what it had been doing to the living to the undead instead!and what if it has been turning the souls into more of itself the forest is pretty big you would need a large amount of them to curse the whole thing better to command it to stay still and do nothing
Post by: Grek on December 24, 2012, 08:05:59 am
Post by: RAM on December 24, 2012, 08:49:31 am
Riding around on giant bats would be awesome.
We could start our soul magic by reviewing the kids. If we can figure out the difference between them and a normal child then we would have gotten somewhere...
Investigating the necromancy is a point of urgency, we can't really rest safely knowing that there is an unidentified form of the occult nearby.
Perhaps the elven theurge should phone home and contact the life mages, although order mages probably know more about souls. I expect that they once had a spell for temporarily bringing back their long-dead heroes...
It is possible that killing the thing in the forest would release all the souls it took, although there is no real reason to believe that such would happen, nor that it would help the children if it did.
Post by: Toaster on December 24, 2012, 09:12:10 am
We could start our soul magic by reviewing the kids. If we can figure out the difference between them and a normal child then we would have gotten somewhere...
"Hey, can we borrow your kid? I want to experiment on his soul."
If the soul's been taken, we'd have to figure out where it is first, determine if it's even in a recoverable state, and then figure out how to get it back in. Sucks for the kids, but there's better things for us to do right now. If we can figure out (and subdue) what's taking the souls, we can leave that for other mages to fix while we concentrate on the root of the problem. However, we need to figure out what we're actually trying to do here.
I suggest we wake up, get a bit more general information from the priest (without mentioning the basement item) then quietly investigate it ourself when we have an opportunity.
Post by: RAM on December 24, 2012, 10:20:45 am
I suggest we wake up, get a bit more general information from the priest (without mentioning the basement item) then quietly investigate itourselfwith Omo when we have an opportunity.
Post by: Felius on December 24, 2012, 11:29:27 am
That have some potential to blow up on our faces. Speak with the priest about general information, ask if the wards also raise alarm if zombies pass through them (even if just silently to him), as that could be useful to know when to send help to someone in case of attack.I suggest we wake up, get a bit more general information from the priest (without mentioning the basement item) then quietly investigate itourselfwith Omo when we have an opportunity.
Assuming they don't and he doesn't mention he can detect nearby undead, just send a controlled small undead animal to the basement. Rats and Roaches can get there much more easily than we can, and a rat on a temple's basement is not suspicious, nor will cause any issues if caught.
If he can detect the undead, then we might need another plan.
On a sidenote, if we get some free time, study our magical book or ask the priest if he could lend you some.
Post by: Angle on December 24, 2012, 01:53:12 pm
Post by: bombzero on December 25, 2012, 02:15:51 am
Not quite that bluntly of course, but basically explain to him that we "saw" the monster, fixed the child temporarily after leaving the forest, and kinda lead it back around to us having these powers because we are a necromancer.
IMMEDIATELY, follow this with an offer to help fix the children, before the priest can even utter a syllable.
I mean I know this seems suicidally dangerous, but if we want to confront the other necromancers we /cannot/ do this alone. We're going to need the support of the people, the towns, the cities, the armies, and the rulers. This small town, and more specifically this priest, is a good place to start.
Post by: Angle on December 25, 2012, 02:36:02 am
Post by: Grek on December 25, 2012, 02:49:57 am
Post by: Angle on December 25, 2012, 02:54:24 am
Or perhaps, instead of asking for tutoring, we just ask him questions and help him with the wards and all that. Yes, definitely ask him about the wards and try and solve that mystery. See if we can arrange for him to discover the thing in the basement himself. If he's doing anything magical, stick around and offer to help. If he seems to mention some theory of magic with which we are unfamiliar, take note and ask him about it. If he goes off and does some boring nonmagical priestly thing, take the opportunity to snoop around in the basement.
Post by: Felius on December 25, 2012, 08:28:31 am
Post by: GlyphGryph on December 25, 2012, 12:41:01 pm
I think in light of this new information, it's a good thing we didn't destroy it.
I would like to mention again my plan of saying that we are a mage trained in fighting necromancy, something the Elves have always feared would be a threat once more, and that while we have limited experience actually USING our training, that is the reason we have left our lands and find ourselves here now. The one encounter had rescuing the children proved the practice of our theory, and it is good to know it works, and more importantly we've been using our magic to detect sources of undead energy... like the one in the basement, and the bits floating around in the wood.
Also, request he keep the information hidden - it would be unwise to let it become general knowledge, to tip our hands before it is needed and before it can be fully tested and we can report back. But, hopefully, our specific training can be of some use at the current time. At the very least, expanding our abilities by managing a basic grasp of this ward magic would be much appreciated - we've proven we can see and destroy (or at least damage) the undead, but hiding from them would be an amazing addition to our repertoire.
Post by: Angle on December 25, 2012, 01:17:15 pm
Post by: Felius on December 25, 2012, 01:50:25 pm
The wards look like general magic, which means we probably can't use them. Also, he'll probably see strait through that anti-necromancer thing. It might work on peasants, but I doubt he'll fall for it.Depends on how much the elves are mythical and mysterious outside the elven lands. Probably not worth the risk, at least for now.
Post by: GlyphGryph on December 25, 2012, 02:24:55 pm
Two, it doesn't require us to be particularly mythical and mysterious, just reclusive (which we are) and primarily specifying in magics that these humans aren't familiar with (which again is true). All Elves are inherently magical, which is something that's generally known. We just need to play on that.
Post by: RoaryStar on December 25, 2012, 04:02:04 pm
I believe the dormant necromancy thing is a soul. Or possibly, many souls.
Spoiler: My Theory with Almost No Evidence... or maybe not. (click to show/hide)
If my theory is true...
Could the necromancer that made the monster do that? And would (s)he make it be recieved under the temple?
It could prove it true.
Maybe it was done to throw other... "good" necromancers off.
Of course, just a theory. But I say:
Try to Command Undead, visuallizing the undead as souls.
Post by: Felius on December 25, 2012, 05:51:04 pm
Post by: Angle on December 25, 2012, 07:06:46 pm
Also, the thing doesn't need to be very tough, just cast one spell - Steal Soul.
Post by: GlyphGryph on December 25, 2012, 07:09:12 pm
I'm beginning to suspect it's some sort of "animate vitality" spell - literally turning their lifeforce into a "ghost", leaving their body missing it.
How much vitality do the kids have remaining again?
Post by: RoaryStar on December 25, 2012, 09:33:33 pm
How much vitality do the kids have remaining again?
2 and 2, if nothing changed.
Post by: Leonon on December 28, 2012, 03:04:48 am
We should probably try going back to the forest during the day, hunting down the thing that chased us earlier, and casting control undead on it. Once it's under control we can get a better look at it and maybe be able to control the basement dweller. It's probably better to control it and do recon that way than to try to find a way to it.
As far as souls go, I heard something earlier about cattle at nearby farms. We have Pacify Animal too, so I'm sure there are some birds or mice or something we can play with. If there are animals in the forest we should probably try any soul related spells in there. If we can't find any animals in there we should keep the soul experiments inside a warded area.
We may also want to give the kids some more vitality when we wake up, depending on how they're doing.
Also, if we get another dream visit we may want to see exactly how this whole "rule the world" thing is being planned. It seems like each necromancer has a plot of land they're allowed to conquer and rule as they see fit, though I could be wrong. We may be able to have Elven land under our protection, to be conquered by us and left alone by everyone else. If the undead we killed were still sending signal back to their leader we'll probably be called out on breaking them, but let's hope that doesn't happen. If it does happen we should probably apologize and ask for a spell that pacifies undead.
Post by: RoaryStar on December 28, 2012, 10:06:15 am
Spoiler: LordBucket on Dec. 24 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Ancre on Dec. 24 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Grek and NoahTophatz on Dec. 24 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: RAM, Toaster, and Felius on Dec. 24 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: bombzero on Dec. 25 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: GlyphGryph on Dec. 25 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Leonon on Dec. 28 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: My Compilation (click to show/hide)
Let's see...
My idea of what we should do:
Tell the priest the whole story. Tell him of the necromantic source in the basement, then, if he allows us, go and investigate.
If not, experiment on animal souls.
Inform me if I missed anything important or if you have something else to add.
This is a mystery, we need as much evidence as we can get.
Post by: Felius on December 28, 2012, 10:30:19 am
Telling Omo is one thing, he's a long time friend. The priest barely know us, and we only have some credit with him because we saved the kids.
And that's all assuming he's not actually an evil necromancer disguised as the village priest.
Post by: RoaryStar on December 28, 2012, 11:01:09 am
What makes you believe the priest won't simply make a mob out of the townspeople and try to kill us. If nothing else, for "our own good" before the necromantic powers corrupt us.Well, I don't think an evil necromancer will trust random passerby enough to let them go on a rescue mission, unless he wanted to "recruit" more zombies.
Telling Omo is one thing, he's a long time friend. The priest barely know us, and we only have some credit with him because we saved the kids.
And that's all assuming he's not actually an evil necromancer disguised as the village priest.
It might explain why the wards didn't work, but the townsfolk would lose trust in him, and it's a common strategy to gain trust and then betray.
And I don't think a wise person would kill someone while being attacked by zombies - probably isolate them, maybe interrogate them.
And, if he was a necromancer, he probably would know that you killed his zombies.
Though who knows? Monk12 probably does
Any of us could be right. Maybe none of us got to the answer.
Post by: Endymion107 on December 28, 2012, 01:08:41 pm
Soul magic could be useful, and may be required to fix the children, but it is likely Omo and others would not like the idea of us using it very much.
Post by: Leonon on December 28, 2012, 03:05:31 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/WO6MMs.png) (http://imgur.com/WO6MM.png)
Post by: Felius on December 28, 2012, 08:56:57 pm
But yeah, technically we don't know if the if the priest would turn us in or not. That said, the risk is high and the gain small, so let's not take the risk.
Post by: RAM on December 28, 2012, 09:40:46 pm
Having said that, we should take this opportunity to learn what we can about souls, we want the ability to detect them and it would be very nice to learn how to manipulate them, even if only to find ways to prevent it... If we can develop this to a point at which we can cast a spell to locate the children's souls, extract them, and then restore them to the children, then so much the better...
Post by: RoaryStar on December 28, 2012, 09:55:01 pm
We have important things to do and the world will not wait for us(well, it might, some places base their time on dramatic necessity. Even then, there is reason to believe that there are at least two other protagonist out there...).You mean antaganists? :P
While saving the children would be very nice, it may turn out to be something that we could spend months studying only to discover that the children's souls are unrecoverable and the only source of viable replacements would be taking the souls from other humans of similar ages... I think that we should brace ourselves for the possibility that we cannot practically fix this and move on.And in the months we try to do that, we will almost certainly gain experience and learn new spells.
Hmmm... I've changed my mind about telling the priest, with all your criticism. But it'll probably be very hard to learn of the necromantic energy if we do not have permission or if we don't have a lot of information that can tell if it's too dangerous or not. The best way to get permission or to get information from the priest to is to befriend him, and I don't think it'll help to randomly walk out one day.
I now say:
Help the children in any non-necromantic way possible and talk to the priest, using our expert (read: dabbling) social relationship knowledge to attempt to get more out of the priest, then decide on whether or not to look at the necromantic source.
Edit: typo fixed.
Post by: RAM on December 29, 2012, 02:39:28 am
Post by: RulerOfNothing on December 30, 2012, 01:15:31 am
Post by: LordBucket on December 30, 2012, 02:25:19 am
Quote
Do not tell the priest we are a necromancer. Very bad idea.
Agreed. Don't tell him.
Not only would it be dangerous, there's no real benefit to us even if he's ok with it. If we just want to investigate under the temple we can easily justify that without risking having him tell the entire village and the local military patrols that the probably only two elves travelling together in this part of the world are necromancers.
If we really want to tell him about the necromantci source beneath his temple, say something like "Excuse me Me Priest. Last night we were examining the wards to try to determine why the undeda were able to penetrate them, and during our efforts we happened to notice something peculiar beneath the temple. But we're not completely certain what it is. Do you have any ideas?"
Problem solved.
As has been discussed a couple times, if anybody thinks it suspicious that we can or can't do any particular thing, all we have to do is shrug and say "elf magic."
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we should take this opportunity to learn what we can about souls
I proposed some experiements (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=96692.msg3898754#msg3898754) but there was a philosophical outcry that such magic might be a bad idea.
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We have important things to do
Yes. Sidequests are fine, but let's remember there's a main quest too.
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we should take this opportunity to learn what we can about souls
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there is a decent chance that we could get away with goofing-off
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spend a few days learning some general magic or very discreetly performing some experiments
Actually, I'm inclined to agree, and that's my vote.
Stay in the village a couple days and knock out a bunch of the pending experiments we've had on the to do list for the past 6+ months of real-life time.
Among those, also do the soul experiments and try to help the children. But if we can't, then don't waste the next week stressing over it. We have a world to save and a couple presumably high level necromancers out there that we're going to have to face someday.
I propose we grind some levels and answer all those unanswered questions we've had for basically ever.
Post by: bombzero on December 30, 2012, 11:36:53 am
Stay in the village a couple days and knock out a bunch of the pending experiments we've had on the to do list for the past 6+ months of real-life time.Actually this sounds fine, we seem to be safe enough here and the major players on the world stage are taking their sweet time doing anything, so a few days to recollect ourselves, cut down the list of experiments, and see about gaining any additional aid or giving any additional aid would be nice.
Post by: racnor on December 31, 2012, 02:11:46 pm
+1 to thisStay in the village a couple days and knock out a bunch of the pending experiments we've had on the to do list for the past 6+ months of real-life time.Actually this sounds fine, we seem to be safe enough here and the major players on the world stage are taking their sweet time doing anything, so a few days to recollect ourselves, cut down the list of experiments, and see about gaining any additional aid or giving any additional aid would be nice.
Post by: Angle on December 31, 2012, 03:31:24 pm
Post by: Corruptor on January 01, 2013, 06:30:37 pm
Regarding the Necromantic presence in the basement, the priest seems legitimately good - though it's possible that the wards have been failing because he sabotaged them out of some deal with Nightroar.
More likely though, the presence is an artifact he's been keeping sealed away. To find out for sure, we could animate a pidgeon or some other small bird, and send it below to scout for it. If it's discovered, it'll probably just be written off as a spy of Nightroar.
On the subject of experiments, other Necromancers are apparently able to send minions far afield without them being nearby - we should practice long-range control. Additionally we could experiment with spells that sense or affect the soul. Oh, and did that experiment to try to make a healing potion by doing the mana potion creation process but infusing with vitality instead of mana ever happen?
Post by: Parisbre56 on January 03, 2013, 05:35:48 am
On the subject of experiments, other Necromancers are apparently able to send minions far afield without them being nearby - we should practice long-range control.I don't believe it's long range control. They were more likely ordered something along the lines of: "Keep going forward and kill everyone you meet." If it was long range control we probably wouldn't be able to command the undead at the farm ourselves and the undead would have reacted more intelligently.
Although that doesn't mean we shouldn't test the limits of our necromantic control. For example take a dead pigeon or some other flying animal and command-undead it and start flying away. How far away can the animal go before we lose control of it?
Post by: Angle on January 03, 2013, 12:28:10 pm
Post by: RoaryStar on January 03, 2013, 12:35:30 pm
That seems a little risky- some other necromancer might catch the pigeon and either use it as a magical link to us, or use it to physically trace us down.
Everything we do is risky, from swimming across a river being chased by rangers, to tracking down the kids. Anything can go wrong.
Post by: Angle on January 03, 2013, 01:53:03 pm
Post by: Descan on January 03, 2013, 04:34:08 pm
Post by: Corruptor on January 03, 2013, 05:01:21 pm
Tell it to come back after half an hour. If we can control it throughout, then an hour. Then 2 hours. Etc, etc.+1
Post by: Leonon on January 03, 2013, 07:25:24 pm
Post by: Descan on January 03, 2013, 07:29:56 pm
Then time how long a pigeon takes to travel a kilometer/how far a pigeon can get in 5 minutes. Then do the math after the "Fly for x amount of minutes and return" experiment.
Post by: Zavvnao on January 04, 2013, 06:55:33 am
Post by: LordBucket on January 04, 2013, 07:01:14 am
Has anyone asked if tanning or cooking prevents necromancy?
I'm pretty sure that no, no one in the thread has asked that before.
Post by: RoaryStar on January 04, 2013, 08:42:19 am
Yep. Probably no one has asked that before.Has anyone asked if tanning or cooking prevents necromancy?I'm pretty sure that no, no one in the thread has asked that before.
Though if your question was "Does tanning/cooking prevent necromancy?" I would say yes.
Post by: LordBucket on January 04, 2013, 09:25:55 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on January 04, 2013, 11:14:25 am
That seems a little risky- some other necromancer might catch the pigeon and either use it as a magical link to us, or use it to physically trace us down.I did not mean "order the pigeon to go to a certain location" or "order it to move forward forever". I actually meant "make it flap it's wings with our will, like some magical remote controlled robot". That way, when we lose control of it, it will probably just fall to the ground. I mean the purpose of this experiment is to find out how far and how long we can maintain a command undead spell and not how far an undead ordered to go forward will go.
Although testing what kind of conditional orders an undead can follow is a good experiment.
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 08, 2013, 09:31:33 am
Are you still aliiiiive?
Post by: RAM on January 08, 2013, 11:25:22 am
We can add it to the test list if anybody really wants, but since we can animate golems that were never alive in the first place, I don't see any reason to think this would have any effect.I suspect that golems and undead are sort of different, so it might matter which category animated leather or pate might fall under...
Post by: Corruptor on January 08, 2013, 02:08:01 pm
Mooooonk?Or failing that, undead?
Are you still aliiiiive?
Post by: Angle on January 08, 2013, 02:22:46 pm
Post by: Zavvnao on January 24, 2013, 09:10:54 am
We can add it to the test list if anybody really wants, but since we can animate golems that were never alive in the first place, I don't see any reason to think this would have any effect.
Yep. Probably no one has asked that before.Has anyone asked if tanning or cooking prevents necromancy?I'm pretty sure that no, no one in the thread has asked that before.
Though if your question was "Does tanning/cooking prevent necromancy?" I would say yes.
THank you everyone :3
Post by: kilakan on January 24, 2013, 02:30:46 pm
Post by: Angle on January 24, 2013, 04:04:02 pm
Post by: RoaryStar on January 24, 2013, 05:01:51 pm
I was so happy for a moment there...
Me too...
Post by: Zavvnao on January 25, 2013, 06:19:00 am
Post by: kahn1234 on January 28, 2013, 07:04:22 am
No, I think it'll be something much less predictable.Obviously Gorgothans are kobolds.
(Though actually goblins/orcs would be more likely.)
I know I'm quoting an old post but humour me.
Weren't the Golgothans the evil demon guys in that old game Birthright?
Post by: racnor on January 28, 2013, 08:02:44 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on January 28, 2013, 12:00:11 pm
Quote from: Mark 15:22
And they took him up to the place Golgotha, which is translated Place of the Skull.
Post by: RAM on January 28, 2013, 06:26:37 pm
Spoiler: Author's note (click to show/hide)
Post by: kahn1234 on January 29, 2013, 03:29:20 am
Post by: Ancre on January 29, 2013, 08:19:25 am
i wonder if he is going to continue this..... its been a while/
He probably will. It's not the first time monk spent a lot of time writing another scene.
Post by: monk12 on January 31, 2013, 05:10:31 pm
I now say:
Help the children in any non-necromantic way possible and talk to the priest, using our expert (read: dabbling) social relationship knowledge to attempt to get more out of the priest, then decide on whether or not to look at the necromantic source.
Before we can try and use magic that affects souls, we need to figure out if we can even see them. Reviewing the difference between the kids and other people is a good idea, and we should also investigate that thing in the basement. ask the priest questions, and also ask him about the basement if we find a good way to bring up the subject.
That have some potential to blow up on our faces. Speak with the priest about general information, ask if the wards also raise alarm if zombies pass through them (even if just silently to him), as that could be useful to know when to send help to someone in case of attack.I suggest we wake up, get a bit more general information from the priest (without mentioning the basement item) then quietly investigate itourselfwith Omo when we have an opportunity.
Assuming they don't and he doesn't mention he can detect nearby undead, just send a controlled small undead animal to the basement. Rats and Roaches can get there much more easily than we can, and a rat on a temple's basement is not suspicious, nor will cause any issues if caught.
If he can detect the undead, then we might need another plan.
On a sidenote, if we get some free time, study our magical book or ask the priest if he could lend you some.
Having said that, we should take this opportunity to learn what we can about souls, we want the ability to detect them and it would be very nice to learn how to manipulate them, even if only to find ways to prevent it... If we can develop this to a point at which we can cast a spell to locate the children's souls, extract them, and then restore them to the children, then so much the better...
You wake up early the next morning when Eko brightens the lanterns. You groan softly when you realize the hour, but although you give some serious thought to going back to bed you regretfully conclude that you are now awake, and you won't fall asleep again easily. You sit up and rub the sleep from your eyes. Seeing you stir, Eko smiles and beckons you to follow him further into the Temple, away from the other sleepers.
Stifling a yawn, you stretch as you stand up. The Necromantic Energy below you is in the exact same place it was when you went to bed. You pause for a moment- the children are also exactly as you last saw them, eyes open, staring at the ceiling. Omo has tangled his blankets rather thoroughly, and a snore intermittently escapes from the tangled sheets. You think of the ways your sight has changed, and how you can see things differently now. You try to detect a difference between the soulless children and the slumbering elf, but no matter how you squint you see nothing. If Necromancers can see souls, it must not be an ability you possess yet, unless there's some other trick you don't know yet...
You push it from your mind and follow Eko. The next room turns out to be a combination kitchen and living room. It is almost uncomfortably warm due to the large fireplace that no doubt heats most of the Temple, an iron pot bubbling over the flames. The wall to the left is lined with cupboards and cabinets, every surface covered with dirty dishes, loose papers, an old hammer, and other detritus of daily life. A small table with two chairs takes up the space to the right, along with a comfy-looking armchair positioned near the fire.
You regard the door to the left with some small interest, as the symbol Eko wears around his neck is engraved into it, but the priest shows you to the door on the right wall. It opens into a narrow, dark hallway. Although you can see another door further down, Eko directs your attention to the nearest door- a washroom complete with a large, steaming bowl of water. Thanking the priest profusely, you pause only to fetch a change of clothes from your pack before satisfying some basic needs.
When you emerge some minutes later, clean and refreshed, you find Eko spooning a porridge of oats and beans into a bowl for you. You eye the mixture somewhat doubtfully, especially when Eko pours a cup of milk into the bowl along with a couple slices of dried apple. Despite your trepidation, however, it turns out to be... entirely palatable. It certainly lacks in flavor and texture, but it isn't repulsive and it is quite filling.
"So... this porridge is good." You say, breaking the silence.
"You are kind to say so." Eko replies, grinning slightly. "It is easy to swallow and easy to digest, ideal for sick patients."
"Ah. For the children, then. What are you going to do for them?"
"Well, I confirmed their condition while you were still asleep- peace and quiet really does help the spellcasting process, you know." Eko's grin fades, and he sighs. "There isn't much I can do for them at this point. I will feed them, give them water, keep their bodies alive, and if their condition does not improve in a month's time... well, I will allow nature to take its course."
"You'll let the children die?" You say incredulously.
"What else can I do? My magics have failed me again. The records say that in the past we've called on healers from all faiths, even the Elves, but the Mages could do nothing for us. These bodies could easily persist into old age if we cared for them, but for what purpose? They are already dead, and the living still need my care."
An awkward silence descends on the room. Eko stares moodily into the crackling flames, absently patting at his robes. You cough discreetly into one hand, casting about for a change of subject.
"Um... your wards only block sight, right?"
"That's right." Eko nods.
"Can they do anything else? Can they actually block the zombies, or raise an alarm?"
"Sufficiently powerful wards could, yes. The strongest wards I can cast would not do much other than slow down the undead for a time, and would take me some time to cast in the first place. The only reason I haven't cast more powerful wards is because they are quite mana-intensive; before the zombies there was no need for stronger wards, and now I must reserve a portion of my mana in case it is needed to repel an attack."
You blink in surprise. "Your magic can repel zombies?"
"If it comes to that. I specialize in defensive wards, but no Wizard situated near the haunted forest can serve without knowing some specialty spells. Undead are an aberration from the natural order- it stand to reason a Wizard can restore it." Eko shrugs. "I don't know how effective I can be- more likely I will need the mana for healing spells. Either way, I cannot overexert myself in good conscience."
You blink in surprise. "Oh. Well, your wards- can they repel loose souls?"
"Your concern for the children is touching, but no, their souls are not trapped in the forest by my wards, if that's what you are getting at. I do know wards for protection against spirits and ghosts, but none of those are in place around the forest. And remember, there were many victims before it was thought needful to ward the forest- they lay comatose for years, but never recovered."
You are about to ask another question, but at that moment Omo enters the room, drawn by the smell of breakfast. You make small talk while Eko goes to feed the children and his other patient. Afterward, he disappears through the door to the right, reemerging a few moments later with a walking stick. He slips his flask into his robes and tightens the laces on his boots.
"I'm afraid I must leave for a time- I need to check the wards on the outlying farms, and I plan to set some new wards to give the village warning of another attack. The Temple is open to you- what food isn't in here is in the storeroom down the hall, and I have some books in my room if you wish to read, though you may find the subject matter dry. I should only be gone a few hours."
You make your farewells, trying in vain to come up with a way to casually mention the basement. Eko Cleanvise steps onto the road East, purposefully making his way out of town and ignoring one villager's hail. You return to the kitchen, where Omo is finishing up his breakfast.
"I hope they don't all eat like this in Thrimesdur. So, are we moving on today?"
"I don't want to go yet, maybe not for a while. At the least, I'd like to find out what's going on in the basement. Maybe if I experiment enough, I can find a way to help the children."
Omo scrapes the last soggy bean out of his bowl before pushing it away. "Well, what should we do first?"
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Author's Note (click to show/hide)
Post by: RoaryStar on January 31, 2013, 05:33:53 pm
We can use this time to:
a) check on the kids using our own magic, maybe learn a few examination spells
b) look at the necromantic source
c) attempt to go back to sleep
d) talk to the villagers
e) do some magic of our own
f) try to make our own wards
g) go exploring in the forest again
h) find out how the general population eats here
Spoiler: My thoughts on all of these (click to show/hide)
I'd say, in order of priority:
A, B, D, E, F, H, C, and lastly, G.
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on January 31, 2013, 05:41:35 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on January 31, 2013, 06:16:28 pm
Yay, update!I say A and then B. Also, try command undead at the children. It will not help them or hurt them but we might learn some things about necromancy and see the extent of our powers over humans (can we see their memories for example?). Then again nothing yells evil necromancer like mind controlling children.
We can use this time to:
a) check on the kids using our own magic, maybe learn a few examination spells
b) look at the necromantic source
c) attempt to go back to sleep
d) talk to the villagers
e) do some magic of our own
f) try to make our own wards
g) go exploring in the forest again
h) find out how the general population eats hereSpoiler: My thoughts on all of these (click to show/hide)
I'd say, in order of priority:
A, B, D, E, F, H, C, and lastly, G.
Edit: Oh and don't forget to check what's in the door with the symbol (maybe use a spy insect if it's locked?). Unless of course that's the door to the basement.
Post by: Felius on January 31, 2013, 06:27:41 pm
Post by: RulerOfNothing on January 31, 2013, 06:34:48 pm
He just said the temple is open to us. Let's play the curious children, and explore the whole temple! Which coincidentally includes the basement.Yeah, we should look in the basement, unless it is inaccessible for some reason. Otherwise we should look at some of the books in the temple library.
Post by: RAM on January 31, 2013, 09:38:38 pm
*Does the happy dance*
P.S.
He just said the temple is open to us. Let's play the curious children, and explore the whole temple! Which coincidentally includes the basement.agree
Post by: Angle on January 31, 2013, 10:51:10 pm
For now, check on the kids using our own magic, then grab Omo and go snooping in the basement. We should be careful to not to touch the thing- It might possess us, or set off an alarm, or something similarly nasty.
Post by: kahn1234 on February 01, 2013, 03:42:58 am
Yay, update!I say A and then B. Also, try command undead at the children. It will not help them or hurt them but we might learn some things about necromancy and see the extent of our powers over humans (can we see their memories for example?). Then again nothing yells evil necromancer like mind controlling children.
We can use this time to:
a) check on the kids using our own magic, maybe learn a few examination spells
b) look at the necromantic source
c) attempt to go back to sleep
d) talk to the villagers
e) do some magic of our own
f) try to make our own wards
g) go exploring in the forest again
h) find out how the general population eats hereSpoiler: My thoughts on all of these (click to show/hide)
I'd say, in order of priority:
A, B, D, E, F, H, C, and lastly, G.
Edit: Oh and don't forget to check what's in the door with the symbol (maybe use a spy insect if it's locked?). Unless of course that's the door to the basement.
+1
Although, i dont think trying to take on a soul stealing spirit demon thing at the moment is a good idea, so lets stay out the forest for now.
Post by: Zako on February 01, 2013, 05:18:07 am
Post by: RAM on February 01, 2013, 07:48:22 pm
Post by: Grek on February 01, 2013, 08:58:38 pm
-Use Steal Vitality on ourselves or a nearby plant. Insert the vitality into the children. This should revive them.
-Go into the basement, look at the necromantic thing downstairs.
Post by: fergus on February 01, 2013, 10:42:42 pm
-Use Steal Vitality on ourselves or a nearby plant. Insert the vitality into the children. This should revive them.They already have Vitality, giving them more probably won't help.
Post by: NoahTophatz on February 01, 2013, 11:33:58 pm
Post by: RoaryStar on February 02, 2013, 11:58:22 am
-Use Steal Vitality on ourselves or a nearby plant. Insert the vitality into the children. This should revive them.They already have Vitality, giving them more probably won't help.
In fact, we've already done that to give one of the kids 1 vitality to get them back to two. It hurt us a lot, and did nothing to help them.
Post by: racnor on February 07, 2013, 07:22:43 pm
+1Yay, update!I say A and then B. Also, try command undead at the children. It will not help them or hurt them but we might learn some things about necromancy and see the extent of our powers over humans (can we see their memories for example?). Then again nothing yells evil necromancer like mind controlling children.
We can use this time to:
a) check on the kids using our own magic, maybe learn a few examination spells
b) look at the necromantic source
c) attempt to go back to sleep
d) talk to the villagers
e) do some magic of our own
f) try to make our own wards
g) go exploring in the forest again
h) find out how the general population eats hereSpoiler: My thoughts on all of these (click to show/hide)
I'd say, in order of priority:
A, B, D, E, F, H, C, and lastly, G.
Edit: Oh and don't forget to check what's in the door with the symbol (maybe use a spy insect if it's locked?). Unless of course that's the door to the basement.
+1
Although, i dont think trying to take on a soul stealing spirit demon thing at the moment is a good idea, so lets stay out the forest for now.
I would also suggest that we determine the vitality-mana exchange rate before we do any experiments that connect to that.
EDIT- and examine the temple(and especially the door) with detect magic. If the door is coated in order spells, then there is either a good reason to prevent us from opening it, or something that needs to be sealed on the other side. Not to mention, if it's magic, then we just explain that we detected a spell and ask what it does.
Post by: kahn1234 on February 13, 2013, 06:11:45 am
Post by: RAM on February 13, 2013, 08:20:41 pm
Post by: racnor on February 13, 2013, 08:25:48 pm
Post by: RAM on February 13, 2013, 08:55:40 pm
Post by: monk12 on March 01, 2013, 10:25:23 pm
He just said the temple is open to us. Let's play the curious children, and explore the whole temple! Which coincidentally includes the basement.
For now, check on the kids using our own magic, then grab Omo and go snooping in the basement. We should be careful to not to touch the thing- It might possess us, or set off an alarm, or something similarly nasty.
When checking out the basement, use our own magic detecting spell to see if there are any magical effects going on nearby. It should alert us to magical traps that protect the source.
"Well, what should we do now?"
"Let's take a quick look at the kids, then check out whatever is in the basement."
You step into the main room of the Temple. The children are as you left them, but the man in the far cot is awake and sitting up, leaning back on his pillows. You cast about for a name- Ado Drunkenstumbles, a survivor of the zombie attack. Seeing him out from under his blankets, you realize that he is hurt quite badly- his left side is swathed in bandages, and his face and arms are heavily bruised. He directs a sour look at you as you enter- you nearly turn around and leave, but decide to press on. You're sharing sleeping quarters, after all, and it seems as though his dour mood has more to do with his own bedridden state rather than anything you've done.
Standing by the children, you decide to start with your Detect Magic spell, as you'll want that active during your explorations anyway. Unfortunately, as far as you can tell they are completely free of magical energy. However, you quickly notice that the same cannot be said for Ado Drunkenstumbles- he seems to be wearing a layer of magic like a second skin. It's no magic you are familiar with, but it seems likely to be some form of healing, given the circumstances.
You realize you've been staring when Ado fixes you with a glare of his own, and you hastily return your attention to the children. You discreetly cast Sense Vitality, and frown at what you feel- two Vitality each. That's what they had when you brought them back last night, and although it wasn't all that long ago you would still have expected them to recover some Vitality. Maybe it's just shock from their rough treatment, or maybe it's an effect of their soullessness. You wonder why Eko didn't cast any healing spells for them the way it seems he did for Ado.
Uncomfortably aware of Ado's continued observation, you decide to check one last thing. Quickly, you stride to the outer doors, where you had first noticed the Necromantic presence in the basement. Sure enough, you find a faint line of magical energy, seeming to disappear into the walls. Again, you don't recognize what sort of magic it is (though it seems distantly related to the spell on Ado- perhaps because they are both Order spells?) but you would bet anything that this is a ward similar to what encircles the forest. Experimentally, you step outside for a moment- sure enough, your awareness of the Necromantic Energy vanishes.
You glance up the road in the direction Eko left- of course, you see nothing but a few villagers going about their business. You go back inside, quickly walking through the main room and into the kitchen where Omo is waiting.
"Well?" Omo raises an inquiring eyebrow.
"They're unchanged." You sigh. "Completely unchanged- they don't seem to be healing at all."
Omo grunts. "Well, I didn't really expect anything different." Omo points at the door marked with Eko's symbol. "I stuck my head in there, and it looks like an office to me, and where he keeps his ceremonial things. Eko's bedroom is at the end of the hall- not much in there except a shelf full of books I don't understand. But that storeroom he mentioned had a trapdoor in the corner."
"The basement, then. Let's go."
Omo leads you to the storeroom, a small space crammed with cupboards and shelves. The shelves themselves are rather sparce- a few sacks of grain, a keg of ale, a bowl of dried fruit, and another big pot of that soup from last night. Omo moves straight to the far corner, pulling up on an iron ring set in the floor. The trapdoor swings up, resting on the wall and revealing a steep staircase descending into darkness.
You light an oil lamp sitting on a nearby shelf and cautiously walk down the stairs. The air smells musty down here, with that peculiar damp earthy scent familiar from the wine cellars back in Yicelafo. You are also surprised to smell a spicy odor that must have been pungent when it was fresh- you find a shallow bowl with scented candles resting on a barrel at the base of the stairs. The basement is full of junk of all kinds. A bucket of nails rests on a short stack of wooden planks next to a char with a splintered and broken back. One wall is lined with barrels, some full of food, some filled with tools, most covered with a rough tarp. Thick coils of rope hang from hooks on another wall, along with rusty, broken lanterns, a short ladder, and a tasseled spear. What appears to be a narrow window high on the wall has been boarded up.
Omo peers about the cluttered room uneasily, but you pay little attention to the dancing shadows. You walk across the basement to a cleared section of wall. Along the wall here there are obvious holes in the rough stone floor, covered with thick wooden hatches. You don't know what might be stored in such places, nor do you investigate- one hatch is covered with a tarp and a barrel. You might not have realized that the hatches extended that far if it were not clearly the source of the Necromantic energy.
You check the area. You detect no wards, nor any magic of any kind. Signalling to Omo, you wrestle the barrel away, then pull the tarp clear. The hatch beneath is shut securely. The Necromantic energy hasn't moved at all, not since the moment you first stepped into the temple. Omo shoots you a questioning look, and at your nod he grabs the handle, pulling the hatch open.
The zombie below lurches against its restraints, silently struggling to attack you.
You step back, suppressing a retch. The zombie is quite thoroughly decayed, and the stench of rotting flesh is overpowering. Omo curses, coughing as he jumps back. You put a hand to your nose and lean back over, examining the zombie. The bloated and rotten corpse is wearing the dirty, tattered remnants of a soldier's uniform over a stained suit of leather armor. It is missing one leg. The creature is held in place by lengths of thick rope, binding it to a pair of wooden boards wedged between the walls of its prison, holding it immobile. Some of the rope is loose where it has sawed into rotten flesh. You grimace- upon closer inspection, the zombie's arms are nailed to the wood. Its glowing purple eyes remain fixed on you as it strains to break free.
"Blood and ashes!" Omo scowls in disgust. "What is this?"
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: Felius on March 01, 2013, 10:32:30 pm
Post by: RAM on March 02, 2013, 02:54:18 am
Post by: racnor on March 02, 2013, 09:35:18 am
Post by: RoaryStar on March 02, 2013, 11:59:39 am
Right.
So, the zombie has an army uniform, and it's on a...
...pair of wooden boards...
Oh.
Inspect the boards, if it looks like a cross (as in, the cristian kind that the Son was nailed on), and the uniform. Keep a mental image of the uniform.
Most interesting. The way the zombie is restrained do suggest that the priest is not a necromancer, maybe having got the zombie with the intention to study ways to deal with it. It also suggest he might be willing to compromise a bit and use means that would be considered evil by the rest of the populace. Maybe we could even try to actually reveal our situation to him and make him an ally, after all, it's much easier to study ways to deal with necromancy when you have a friendly necromancer giving you a hand.
Maybe it's restrained like that so he dosen't have to constantly use his mana?
Post by: Angle on March 02, 2013, 12:08:51 pm
Regardless, put all the stuff back and continue snooping.
Post by: RAM on March 02, 2013, 12:23:52 pm
Post by: Zako on March 02, 2013, 12:53:08 pm
I wonder... This zombie has obviously seen things, definately whoever did this to it, and we are a necromancer... Can we use our powers to see into the zombie's memory, or see what happened to it, and find out whoever did this?
Post by: Parisbre56 on March 02, 2013, 01:05:55 pm
Post by: Chink on March 02, 2013, 01:54:52 pm
Post by: racnor on March 02, 2013, 01:56:32 pm
Post by: RAM on March 02, 2013, 06:36:54 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on March 05, 2013, 11:46:40 am
Post by: Toaster on March 05, 2013, 12:00:05 pm
Post by: RAM on March 05, 2013, 06:05:53 pm
Post by: monk12 on March 07, 2013, 11:07:30 pm
I guess everyone has a few skeletons in the closet. How old does this thing look?
A soldier, perhaps one of their former friends that they didn't wish to kill. Although the brutality of the restraints suggest otherwise... Does the uniform match the local soldiers? It could be for a long time ago... Check if there are any signs of this spot being visited recently by anyone other than yourself...
If it was held for research then there should be a journal or notebook around here. We should search around for more info. Also, inspect the zombie. Does its necromantic energy seem... different? More complex or generally just unusual, like someone messed with it or constructed it with a different method than ours.
Yeah, also voting against messing with the zombie for now.
"Blood and ashes!" Omo scowls in disgust. "What is this?"
You squat by the hole, resting on your heels as you examine the zombie. "Well, I don't think it has been down here for ages or anything like that. If I found a body that looked like this, I would say it died a few weeks ago, a month at the outside. I don't know if being reanimated as a zombie preserves it at all- I certainly don't see any maggots or beetles or the like. It's about as decayed as the zombies we fought outside Aloclesno, though. The uniform is the same."
Omo spits off to one side, ignoring your disapproving look. "So what, somebody put it down here recently? Do we still suspect Eko of Necromancy?"
You shake your head. "No. Not really. Eko has cast several Order spells, and if he were a Necromancer he wouldn't have to restrain the zombie, he could just order it to be still."
"Then why the secrecy? Why lock it in the basement where nobody can find it, under a pile of junk? How did he even get it down here? If he can't control it then it must have been trying to claw his face off the whole time."
You look around, troubled. You see no signs of a struggle, no stains of blood on the ground, nothing unusually smashed or disorderly in the general clutter. Eko might simply be very good at cleaning up after himself- indeed, there is very little dust or dirt down here- but it would still be very difficult for one man to wrestle a zombie by himself, even with its missing leg.
"I think he was experimenting on it."
"Experimenting?"
"Yeah. That would explain why he wouldn't just destroy it right away, and it's probably not something that would sit well with the villagers. Let's see if we can find any notes, something to explain what exactly he was doing."
Omo gives you a doubtful look, but gathers up the tarp. You briefly consider using Command Undead to calm the zombie, allowing you to search the body in detail or perhaps check if it has memories that could yield a clue, but ultimately you decide not to tamper in any way that might be detected Eko or anyone else. Shutting the hatch, you replace the tarp and barrel and begin searching the basement.
The other hatches along the wall are all empty, their purpose as mysterious as ever. Methodically, you and Omo work through the piles of junk and old furniture, searching for anything out of the ordinary. Just when you begin to consider going back upstairs to check out Eko's office, Omo waves from across the room, pulling a folded piece of paper out from within a shuttered lantern. You walk over to where he is smoothing it out on the top of a barrel, reading over his shoulder.
You frown. "A spell list?"
Omo snorts. "They aren't all spells, unless you think he cast "spear" on that zombie."
"Some of those must be spells, though. I know a ward is what Eko calls his defenses against the undead, and even I know how to cast Detect Magic."
"Do you think they're all general spells? Maybe he's a Necromancer after all."
"I don't know. It doesn't feel right- the spells I felt upstairs didn't feel like general magic to me."
"Well, what do we do now?"
What indeed- you can't have been down here for more than an hour, meaning you still have some hours before Eko returns. You've searched the basement rather thoroughly- it might not hurt to search other rooms in more depth, or perform some experiments of your own. You do not know why- or how- Eko would perform these experiments, and precious little information to extrapolate from.
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Author's Note (click to show/hide)
Post by: Felius on March 07, 2013, 11:17:05 pm
For now, let's explore the rest of the house.
Post by: Descan on March 08, 2013, 12:18:56 am
Now that could just mean that someone got infected and volunteered, but that's not the ONLY thing that could have happened.
No, I think we should try and search it's thoughts, such as they are. Search for what Eko has been doing, who it was before Zombification, how it became a zombie.
Post by: GlyphGryph on March 08, 2013, 01:30:28 am
Post by: RAM on March 08, 2013, 02:21:01 am
Post by: RulerOfNothing on March 08, 2013, 02:35:09 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on March 08, 2013, 06:28:33 am
Post by: Descan on March 08, 2013, 11:28:25 am
And even if it can't remember anything AFTER zombie-time, it might be able to recall stuff that it had in it's brain before death.
Post by: Zako on March 08, 2013, 11:59:52 am
I agree with thinking that the zombies are not diseased based, like in the movies, but are raised by magic and therefore do not make zombies by biting someone. Sure they would have the typical nasty germs and whatnot in their rotting mouths but nothing that would make a zombie. Still, best not to take chances anyway, disease is still disease.
Also, why don't we ask Omo what he thinks we could do? He might have something different in mind that might work.
Post by: NoahTophatz on March 08, 2013, 11:43:23 pm
Post by: Explode_Toad on March 16, 2013, 02:06:58 am
Seeing if there was any memory may be beyond what we can do (also, don't the memories no longer exist if the person's brain is dead?). Regardless, we may just want to leave Rotty McBrainmuncher down here without messing with it too much. Experimenting with our powers with Omo right behind us in the middle of a human village may not be the best idea.
Post by: RAM on March 16, 2013, 03:41:21 am
Post by: InZane on March 16, 2013, 08:02:06 am
Post by: racnor on March 16, 2013, 08:21:10 am
Also, was I the only person who thought "holy s**t we're in Warhammer fantasy roleplay" when Omo mentioned casting a "spear" spell?
Post by: ~Neri on March 21, 2013, 09:55:22 pm
Post by: Zako on March 21, 2013, 10:35:52 pm
Post by: Nunzillor on April 07, 2013, 02:22:44 am
Post by: Grek on April 07, 2013, 02:30:27 am
E: And it would be really hypocritical for us of all people to call someone out on doing experiments on the undead.
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 07, 2013, 06:43:20 am
Post by: RAM on April 07, 2013, 07:40:05 am
Honestly? I'm all over just ignoring the zombie. We know he has a zombie and that he isn't using it for anything nefarious, so we do not care he has a zombie. Bringing it up would be awkward and cause trouble. Let's focus on the forest.I forget whatever commentary I may have made, but this seems reasonable, what are we to do about the forest? It would be nice to retrieve the souls that have been taken, if for no other reason than to determine how to interact with them, although explaining how we would be able to catch souls could be difficult. Ideally we would construct some form of prison to contain the entity that attacked us in the forest, which for all we know is one of the souls that was taken... Perhaps we could try to form a cage of necromantic magic, which is presumably capable of interacting with the unfriendly forest occupant. Or we could practise trying to grab hold of Omo's soul, but I don't think Omo is yet ready for our relationship to reach that point...
E: And it would be really hypocritical for us of all people to call someone out on doing experiments on the undead.
Post by: Descan on April 07, 2013, 03:13:48 pm
Post by: RAM on April 07, 2013, 07:23:50 pm
Post by: aattss on April 11, 2013, 09:15:36 pm
So far, we have been able to control dead things, but not things that were never alive. My first theory is that we need to alter the body to make it capable of automation. Without alteration, the reanimated thing is only capable of what it was capable of when it was alive (nothing). However, my more thoughtful and philisophical theory is that in order to raise the dead, it has to have been alive. In other words, we would need live magic in combination with death magic.
Btw from my understanding, the main love interest is a girl. And the main character, whose gender was decided after that of the main love interest, is female.... I can dig that.
Post by: Deep Waters on April 11, 2013, 10:41:19 pm
Btw from my understanding, the main love interest is a girl. And the main character, whose gender was decided after that of the main love interest, is female.... I can dig that.
Post by: Grek on April 12, 2013, 02:19:12 am
Btw from my understanding, the main love interest is a girl. And the main character, whose gender was decided after that of the main love interest, is female.... I can dig that.
I was under the impression that, insofar as we have a main love interest, it's Omo.
Post by: RAM on April 12, 2013, 02:32:22 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 12, 2013, 12:48:01 pm
There was the elf girl back at the village, who was basically the main love interest, but is now, basically, in permanent residence in a country that is likely to kill us if we enter it, so the options there are somewhat subdued...All we need is a means of communication (maybe we can make a cute golem bird and say it was made by dwarves or maybe we can go to her dreams like that necromancer did to us) and she can go from "Somebody that I used to know" to "Informant". And what's more romantic then exchanging secret messages that can save someone's life? Maybe she can even use the libraries there and her extensive life magic knowledge to help us with our "What is a soul and how do I use it?" problem. And if we discover something important about the necromancer army, she can inform the elven government, or at least warn some people she trusts. And it would be a great hook for a "Meanwhile, back home..." sidestory.
Post by: Deep Waters on April 12, 2013, 05:02:14 pm
Btw from my understanding, the main love interest is a girl. And the main character, whose gender was decided after that of the main love interest, is female.... I can dig that.
I was under the impression that, insofar as we have a main love interest, it's Omo.
There was the elf girl back at the village, who was basically the main love interest, but is now, basically, in permanent residence in a country that is likely to kill us if we enter it, so the options there are somewhat subdued...
They wouldn't kill us. Not unless they found out we were a necromancer, which isn't guaranteed; even then, with Omo's help and some fast talking, we'd probably just be imprisoned for a while instead of outright executed.
There was the elf girl back at the village, who was basically the main love interest, but is now, basically, in permanent residence in a country that is likely to kill us if we enter it, so the options there are somewhat subdued...All we need is a means of communication (maybe we can make a cute golem bird and say it was made by dwarves or maybe we can go to her dreams like that necromancer did to us) and she can go from "Somebody that I used to know" to "Informant". And what's more romantic then exchanging secret messages that can save someone's life? Maybe she can even use the libraries there and her extensive life magic knowledge to help us with our "What is a soul and how do I use it?" problem. And if we discover something important about the necromancer army, she can inform the elven government, or at least warn some people she trusts. And it would be a great hook for a "Meanwhile, back home..." sidestory.
I support this idea
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 13, 2013, 09:20:57 am
Anyway, have we decided what we're going to do this day, as opposed to our wedding day? Are we going to perform any experiments?
Not that I'm suggesting we get married in the forseeable future, Nym's too young for that. Do elves even GET married?
Post by: Descan on April 13, 2013, 12:52:23 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 13, 2013, 01:48:53 pm
While wondering whether or not fetuses count as living or dead I thought of an interesting experiment. Our necromantic powers seem to work by creating magical structures that hijack (in the case of zombies) and augment (in the case of golems) preexisting physical structures. We saw how necromantic energy took over the zombie's body, creating a primitive neural network and muscle system to supplement the corpse's decaying one.
Would it be possible to create those structures in a living body or would the body's soul and life energy counteract our necrimantic energy? If it is possible to create necromantic structures in the bodies of the living, we could use those structures to enhance the living (creating the equivelant of vampires, living undead) and control their bodies and minds (create thralls). Although this should probably be used only with volunteers, animals or as a last resort, since Nym is a good girl... so far.
Post by: kahn1234 on April 15, 2013, 04:37:08 am
after all, in this world, necromancy is a type of life magic. i wouldn't say it was unusual an elf became a necro.
Post by: killerhellhound on April 15, 2013, 06:28:53 am
Post by: kahn1234 on April 16, 2013, 02:37:06 am
I have the idea that their is the same amount of necros around as other mages they just hide it well or maybe go to a hidden village to live in peace.this isnt naruto.
And history has already stated that if there is a necro, chances are they will make it known to the world by acting like complete douchebags.
we are the exception, not the rule.
Post by: RAM on April 16, 2013, 05:33:41 am
Post by: kahn1234 on April 16, 2013, 06:45:39 am
Post by: Cellmonk on April 16, 2013, 01:48:22 pm
is this ever going to be updated again?Have hope, Kahn.
Some day monk shall return and finish his work; our children, grandchildren, or maybe even a few of us will open this page in glory.
I await that day, and if my life fades away before that day comes, so be it. Our descendents shall reap the persimmons of our patient persistence.
Post by: lockman766 on April 17, 2013, 03:50:25 am
Have hope, Kahn.Well said.
Some day monk shall return and finish his work; our children, grandchildren, or maybe even a few of us will open this page in glory.
I await that day, and if my life fades away before that day comes, so be it. Our descendents shall reap the persimmons of our patient persistence.
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 17, 2013, 06:07:48 am
after all, in this world, necromancy is a type of life magic.Necromancy is actually a complement of life magic in my opinion.
Life magic focuses on the use of magic to create and enhance vitality in already living things and the creation of life through biological means.
Necromancy focuses on the manipulation of already existing vitality and necromantic energy and the creation or manipulation of life (or an imitation of life) with the infusion of vitality and necromantic energy in an object. There is also soul manipulation but we have yet to understand how that works.
So in theory a life mage and a necromancer working together would make a great combo to resurrect people. One provides vitality and heals the flesh and the other manipulates the vitality and infuses the body with it to recreate the original body's energy network (or an imitation of it). The necromancer also returns the soul to the body (or creates a new one, again, we don't know how souls work yet).
I really hope we get to do some experiments soon. Maybe try to feel the soul of Omo else or try to enter his mind or something like that.
Or search the priest's office. He's been working on this curse thing for a while, he's bound to have some literature on souls and what they are.
Post by: RAM on April 17, 2013, 07:43:58 am
This is all based upon only one of the sources though, and monk12 has no doubt made personal tweaks of their own...
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 18, 2013, 04:51:27 am
Quote from: monk12
You'd experience the oddest headaches, and sometimes it felt as though all the life around you burned with a cold inner fire.Maybe that fire was the soul? We should try remembering that feeling (maybe meditate a bit) and try to sense the souls around us, maybe even focus on locating the children's souls, some form of scrying. Even if we cannot scry souls, we could still use the ability to sense souls to search for the children's souls in the forest and pull them out of whatever necromantic construct inhabits the forest.
I say we do this.
Post by: RAM on April 18, 2013, 05:52:37 am
Post by: javierpwn on April 18, 2013, 06:57:33 am
WE MUST MEDITATE,FOR THE CHILDREN!
Post by: Felius on April 18, 2013, 06:12:41 pm
Yesh, the perfect plan.We are getting too distracted by the shiny (think of the children! :P). Maybe later, once we are more experienced and have some disposable bandits as guinea pigs we can try to explore the soul a bit more, but these particular kids? Good as dead. We'd need to start by dealing with forest monster, something we don't have the ability to do so yet.
WE MUST MEDITATE,FOR THE CHILDREN!
A sidenote, we really should learn how to use an actual weapon eventually. Let's not be the glass cannon that always needs the meatshield to protect us.
Post by: RAM on April 18, 2013, 07:36:21 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 22, 2013, 07:37:00 am
Remember this:
Quote
You'd awake in the night in a cold sweat, your Mana depleted. You'd experience the oddest headaches, and sometimes it felt as though all the life around you burned with a cold inner fire.I thought the cold inner fire meant the soul, but it turns out I may have been wrong, because (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=96692.msg3675592#msg3675592):
Quote
"I mean, really, it's been going on for months now- odd headaches, and waking up with no Mana, and... kinda being aware of Vitality around me."So maybe it is some sort of necromantic Sense Vitality. However that doesn't mean we shouldn't experiment with it. If it allows us to see how vitality works inside living things we could use that knowledge to design advanced golems and zombies and maybe see if the children's lack of soul is somehow connected to lack of vitality. Or maybe Nym just misinterpreted her feelings and she was actually feeling the souls of others.
Either way, some testing would be nice. We know that the undead have a network of vitality within their bodies, so it is quite possible that the living have something similar and maybe part of that network that exists within living things is the soul.
This (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=96692.msg3197930#msg3197930) post gives some general info about what each magic type is capable of (although Nym said some of the details on Life and Death magic were wrong, so maybe details about other faiths were wrong too). This is especially interesting:
Quote
Fire magic deals with control of fire, obviously, but also volcanoes and lava, light, and matters of the soul.First of all, the fact that Fire is responsible for soul magic and Nym felt a cold inner fire from living things gives some points to my soul theory.
Second, we know for a fact that many magical faiths have overlapping and similar abilities. For example Order, Life and Death magic all have spells that can be used for healing. Earth and Death magic have spells that can be used to create golems. So it is very reasonable that Fire and Death magic both have spells relating to souls. We also know that Balkoth, the necromancer who created or released this creature in the forest, was allied with the fire nations before he destroyed them, thus it is quite possible that he was able to gain a deeper understanding for matters of the soul from them.
We can't hope to gain such knowledge on our own without having an epiphany or studying a lot. However we could try to capture the creature in the woods alive/undead/animate/whatever-the-right-expression-is-for-still-functional (either by using Command Undead (which has the added benefit of telling us what the last order issued to the creature was) or by using Impair Undead to destroy the vitality network of its legs, thus immobilizing it) and use our Improved Necromantic Sight to analyze its construction and its function. Thus we could find a way to help the children or at least make sure that what happened to them doesn't happen to us or anyone else (except perhaps for our enemies).
Remember how Life magic had three schools, three areas where the mage could specialize? It would be interesting to ask Eko about wether or not Order also has three schools. If it does, it may help us understand more about what necromancy is all about. We know it probably has something to do with souls (Soul School) and we know it definitely has something to do with animating Non-Living objects (Animation School). Is there a third discipline we do not know about?
Necromancers are capable of dreamscaping. This implies that there is something more to our dreams in this universe then simple biological processes. Perhaps dreaming is somehow related to the soul. Some ancient cultures believed that dreaming was a form of near death experience, where the soul left the body and traveled to some other dimension. Perhaps dreamscaping works on a similar principle, allowing two people to contact each other by traveling to this dream realm.
It would be a nice idea to try to consciously will ourselves to perform a communication spell while sleeping, similar to how lucid dreaming works.
Omo said (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=96692.msg3813151#msg3813151) that Fale's name sounded dwarven. So perhaps Fale, the apparent mastermind of this plot, is a dwarf or at least lives with the dwarves. He seemed to be fixating on the fact that our friends and family will abandon us when they learn about our gift, rather then the fact that they would send armies against us, so perhaps he revealed himself to his family or friends, they turned against him and he was forced to kill them and/or escape to abandoned caverns. We know that the dwarven engravings contain lost and ancient knowledge, perhaps knowledge about necromancy and its gods, since dwarves were allies of the Golgothans. Maybe the dwarves took some Golgothans as refugees after the war, not wanting to see their long time ally driven to extinction. Something to keep in mind, since our destination, the former Sacred Grove, is close to the dwarven lands.
Perhaps we should stop by the human capital Atkilpema to gain some more knowledge from its libraries. There could be info on the dwarves, necromancy, golgothans and the gods there. Although since this place is also the center of Order, it could be heavily warded against necromancy, meaning we wouldn't be able to use our powers while there.
EDIT: And, now that I think about it, the elves said they would send representatives there. I don't know if they would be something to watch out for (they could have orders to bring us home), an opportunity (we could pretend to be elven ambassadors to gain access to the libraries there) or a possible ally (we could tell them what we've learned about the necromancer and maybe ask some questions or use them as a means to communicate with home)
We know that the wards around the farmhouses failed probably because the zombies went through them rather then around them. It would be nice to test the wards to see if they are still active. If they aren't still active, like Eko said, then that means Eko is suspicious. If however the wards are fine, perhaps this implies that a necromancer either has found a way to bypass the wards (unlikely, since the zombie we commanded seemed affected from the forest wards), has managed to make zombies smarter (again, unlikely given the fact that they seem to be produced in bulk with very simple orders:"Find something living and kill it") or is actually close enough to command the zombies to raid those houses (again, unlikely since we know that command undead has about the same range as our necromantic sight and the Nightroar is too far north. Except if he has found a way to increase the power of his necromantic sight and/or command undead spell) Again, something to think about.
Here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=96692.msg3873079#msg3873079) is the description of the place we found the children:
Quote
Finally, the trail leads into a small clearing. There is nothing to suggest why this particular bit of forest is free of the tall trees- the ground appears to be smooth and flat here, and clear enough for grass and weeds to push through the dead leaves. In the center of the clearing a pair of young trees rise out of the ground, vying with one another to reach the canopy and the life-giving light beyond. The open space in the canopy admits a wide swath of moonlight which clearly illuminates everything in the clearing.It could be a mere coincidence, but we should check the clearing for any source of magic. We should also sense the vitality of the trees. Two young children in a clearing with two young trees. It's a bit far fetched, but maybe the necromantic construct in the forest somehow transferred or transformed the souls of the children into trees. It makes sense to imprison a soul that way, since if the soul was simply removed from the body and then left on its own, it could return as a ghost or spirit (we know this is possible since Eko said there are order spells that can give protection from ghosts and spirits. No reason to invent a spell if it has no use.). If this is true, then that also means that the souls of an army may be trapped in the forest. We could attack the necromancer with our ghost army (LOTR style), or at least gain some knowledge about the Golgothans, the necromancer Balkoth, his methods and how they fought him in ancient times.
Eko said that the curse of the forest was responsible for the annihilation of more then half of a human army. This seems like a very unlikely accomplishment for such a small 3 vitality creature. He also said that people entering the forest always had the same thing happen to them no matter where they entered from. Even with its speed the creature couldn't cover the entire forest at all times. Perhaps the creature we saw was merely a drone, a small part of a much larger construct, lurking deeper inside the forest. Perhaps it is within that larger creature that the souls are contained and the drone we saw was simply its way of acquiring souls (boss battle anyone?).
There is a spell called probe thoughts in Order magic. We should be careful when interacting with Order mages, since they could probe our thoughts if they wanted and maybe discover our secret.
The question is whether or not the souls are still intact, and given the longevity of this creature, it stands to reason that it is burning souls for fuel and doesn't burn them all that quickly...That is actually a very valid question. We know that necromantic constructs roam the sacred grove. Perhaps they are draining its vitality to remain active, thus preventing anything from growing there.
This could be a similar case but with souls. This construct might be feeding of the souls of its victims. And if souls are made of vitality, then it wouldn't even have to convert the souls. It could consume them immediately.
Although the forest is a good source of vitality for the creature. Perhaps that clearing didn't have any trees in it because that is where this construct acquires vitality, much like how the vegetation gets eaten around the place you tie a grazer.
And to restate my suggestions for this turn, condensed into a single post:
1. Search the rest of the temple for info about souls and how they work, Death magic (it will probably concern defenses or detection methods, but those may give us clues on what abilities necromancers have or how to counteract those defense or detection methods), Order magic (specifically the wards and how they work, so that perhaps we may be able to combine it with our knowledge about necromancy to hopefully deduce how the zombies were able to bypass them) and clues about Eko's experimentation (maybe a diary or notebook, if he has one).
2. Try to remember that feeling we had of the cold inner flame all life had. Try to feel this in the people around us. If successful see how the children differ from everyone else. Else just try thinking about what the soul is. The thing that drives people, that gives them purpose. The center of reason and emotion. The thing that differentiates golems and zombies from living things. Try to imagine that and try to feel that thing in us or around us.
3. If all else fails, go to the forest and investigate the clearing we found the children in for vitality and magic. If we come upon the thing that attacked us last night, try to capture it with Command or Impair Undead on its legs instead of killing it with Drain Vitality if possible, so that we may analyze it with our necromantic sight.
If we weren't so pressed for time I would also be interested in learning more about The Plan order priests talk about. They said The Plan is furthered by magic users of any kind. Perhaps we could deduce how Death magic users are supposed to help further The Plan. We could use that knowledge to help convince humans we are good. However right now the children take priority.
Anyway, sorry for the long post.
Post by: RAM on April 22, 2013, 07:10:33 pm
Post by: RoaryStar on April 23, 2013, 03:59:44 pm
-snip of an awesome post-
I agree.
Post by: monk12 on May 07, 2013, 09:39:15 pm
Might be good to confront the priest later about the whole zombie thing, but yeah, he's nearly certain just experimenting on it to learn how to deal better with them.
For now, let's explore the rest of the house.
If he got the zombie down there without any incident... Maybe it wasn't a zombie when he tied it down...
Now that could just mean that someone got infected and volunteered, but that's not the ONLY thing that could have happened.
No, I think we should try and search it's thoughts, such as they are. Search for what Eko has been doing, who it was before Zombification, how it became a zombie.
1. Search the rest of the temple for info about souls and how they work, Death magic (it will probably concern defenses or detection methods, but those may give us clues on what abilities necromancers have or how to counteract those defense or detection methods), Order magic (specifically the wards and how they work, so that perhaps we may be able to combine it with our knowledge about necromancy to hopefully deduce how the zombies were able to bypass them) and clues about Eko's experimentation (maybe a diary or notebook, if he has one).
2. Try to remember that feeling we had of the cold inner flame all life had. Try to feel this in the people around us. If successful see how the children differ from everyone else. Else just try thinking about what the soul is. The thing that drives people, that gives them purpose. The center of reason and emotion. The thing that differentiates golems and zombies from living things. Try to imagine that and try to feel that thing in us or around us.
"Well, what do we do now?" Omo asks.
You purse your lips thoughtfully. "Let me take one more look at that zombie- I've just had a thought."
Omo gives you a wry look, but quickly sets to moving the heavy barrel over the zombie's prison out of the way once more. He steps back in distaste as you fold back the tarp and open the trapdoor, pinching your nose against the stench. A cursory glance shows no difference between the Necromantic Energy forming this zombie and the zombies you encountered outside the forest of Aloclesno. You still don't know whether you can distinguish the creator of individual zombies by sight, but considering the soldier's uniform and the similar stages of decay it seems quite likely that this zombie is of a kind with the others.
Taking a deep breath, you Command Undead, merging your consciousness with the restrained undead soldier. You gain intimate knowledge of the zombie's physical state, but it's nothing you were unaware of just from looking at it. The zombie's last (indeed, current) orders are an imperative along the lines of "Move toward this star, kill the living, return with the corpses." It's certainly a more complex order than you've attempted to give before, and is in fact more complex than the orders you found in the mind of the zombie outside Aloclesno- that zombie only had an order to kill, not to move or gather bodies afterward. In particular, the movement order is fairly intricate- instead of a series of directions on how to find the target star, you find a mental picture.
To the right, empty plains seem to glow beneath a bright moon high in the sky, running up to a dark, shadowed forest on the left, one bright star low on the distant horizon clearly associated with the order to walk. Two more zombies can be seen standing to the right of your field of view, though in truth the edges of the image are fuzzy and indistinct- only the area around the star is truly focused and clear. One of the other zombies you can see wields a long spear, and from the corner of your eye you can see a spear that must be held by the viewer himself- or rather, itself, as you get the distinct impression that the picture is something seen by the zombie in the past.
You frown pensively. You can't tell when exactly this order was given, but you can make a guess based on the mental image held by the zombie. Based on maps you've seen, the only forest for miles around is Aloclesno, unless this zombie has been walking west for a great deal longer than you think it has. That possibility is exceptionally unlikely, considering the moon the zombie remembers is not quite full- the moon was last night was close enough to full as to make no difference. Living beneath the branches of Yicelafo your entire life has kept you from being intimate with the phases of the moon, but you more than suspect this zombie was given its orders before the most recent attack- perhaps a few days before.
You keep digging- the ability to remember an image of such detail certainly suggests that the undead are capable of some degree of memory, more than you had expected. Unfortunately, no matter how you fumble around in the zombie's mind, you cannot seem to find anything else. No thoughts other than its last order, no memories of anything since that order, or any memories of life before zombification. You briefly entertain the idea of Commanding the zombie to remember, or just clearing it's memory to see if anything else turns up, but decide against it. It doesn't seem likely to work, and it may betray your meddling.
"What are you doing, anyway?" Omo asks, not quite looking at the zombie.
You sigh, closing the trapdoor. "I was trying to search its thoughts."
"Zombies have thoughts?"
"Not really, no. However, it seems they do remember orders. This one remembers more detail than I thought any zombie could. Omo, I'm pretty sure this zombie was sent this way before the last attack. That's when it got its last orders, anyway."
Omo scowls, pacing back and forth in the narrow confines of the basement. "Blood and... that would mean Eko knew the zombies were coming before the attack, wouldn't it?"
You run a hand through your hair thoughtfully. "I suppose so. Something doesn't add up, though. It's not like the villagers don't know about Curo Nightroar- his army has already depopulated most of the villages north of here. He must have had some reason to keep a captive zombie secret."
"It had better be a good reason- if the villagers had known that zombies were nearby, they might have fared better in the attack. The soldiers we spoke to didn't seem to think there were many undead this far south of the highway."
You shrug. "I think we've explored everything we can down here. Let's head upstairs."
Once more straightening out the basement, you return to the main floor of the temple. You've already seen what there is to see in the washroom and kitchen, so you decide to check out Eko's office for yourself. The room is small, cramped with a desk and chair against the far wall and a cabinet and chest by the door. Wooden shutters hang open on a narrow window, letting the midday sunlight inside.
The desk is cluttered with papers. You shuffle through them, glancing over reports of the village's food supplies, a list of farms requesting a ward against necromancy, early plans for some upcoming festival, a note to check the health of some elderly villager... nothing you wouldn't expect from a village priest. The chest is held shut by a stout lock- Omo offers to try and smash it open, but that would hardly be a noble way to repay Eko's hospitality, even if you could manage it without rousing Ado and half the village with him. Instead, you open the cabinet- hanging inside are a set of clearly ceremonial robes and a short, ornately carved wooden staff. A brightly polished disk of metal serves as a mirror, casting your curious reflection back at you.
Though you search everything twice, you fail to find any sort of secret compartment or hidden nook that might hold a diary, or journal, or any similarly incriminating evidence. Of course, it could very well be in the locked chest, but that's a problem for another time- right now, you're remembering that Omo mentioned a shelf of books in Eko's bedroom.
The bedroom turns out to be a rather spartan affair. A chest of clothing stands open at the foot of a rumpled narrow bed tucked against one wall. A small table beside the bed holds an unlit candle, and what appears to be a flask similar to the one you saw Eko take with him when he left this morning. Your eyes are quickly drawn to a bookshelf on the wall near the door, half a dozen tomes of varying sizes filling the space.
Moving closer, you inspect the titles of the books. Three fat books proclaim themselves to be different volumes of the Chronicle of Thrimesdur: The Cremated Empire, and a fourth book is titled simply The Golgothan War. One battered book is a copy of Joddo Meadtrust's Prestidigitation for the Beginning Practitioner, a book you yourself possess. You are surprised to see Meadtrust's name grace another, thinner book, titled Line in the Sand: Discrete Forces and Interactions. A Study of Aloclesno rests beside a thick, leather-bound book whose spine is worked with that square symbol Eko wears on a pendant- the cover of that book bears the same image, as well as the title Atal: Shield of Atkilpeme.
Omo groans as your hand hovers over the books. "What, again with the reading?"
You arch an eyebrow at him. "And what's wrong with reading?"
Omo waves at the shelf dismissively. "If I wanted to spend all my time reading, I'd have stayed in Yicelafo and become a Sage."
"I'm not asking you to read these books." Reaching out, you snatch Joddo Meadtrust's second book as a likely starting point. "If you don't want to hang around inside, then why don't you take a stroll around town? I'm sure you can find something fun to do."
"Yeah, fun." Omo snorts. "I don't think this town even has a tavern. Well, I suppose I've never walked around a human village before. I'll go stretch my legs."
As Omo sets off in search of more interesting sights, you settle into the fireside armchair in the kitchen, opening Line in the Sand: Discrete Forces and Interactions. Reading through the introduction and table of contents reveals that this is a book about Order Wards. Apparently, a Ward is any sort of "bounded transitional interference field," which apparently means a protective barrier once you cut through the jargon describing what exactly they can do. There are wards that block sight and sound, wards that block movement, wards that can be used as traps... you make mental note of a ward that is supposed to shield your dreams, but ignore it for now in favor of the long list of wards against specific forms of Magic.
As it turns out, a narrow ribbon already serves to bookmark the chapter about Necromancy wards. You flip past wards that raise an alarm when triggered by Necromancy (which apparently are not very Mana-intensive,) wards that can physically block the passage of the undead (which are much more costly,) and wards that can be used to destroy any undead that passes (which are extremely expensive, and complicated to cast judging by the walls of text and arcane diagrams accompanying them.) You find a description of a ward that sounds similar to what Eko said he used- it seems that it shields the presence of the living from undead by blocking Necromancy-based senses, and replacing them with a sense that the area is filled with inanimate objects, such that the undead creature in question would be unable to pass through.
Unfortunately, you don't have a clue how it does all this- the technical explanation bears no relation to anything you are familiar with, and you can only assume that it makes sense to a practitioner of Order. It does seem to confirm what Eko said earlier, however- an unthinking creature would slightly alter their path to avoid an area protected by the ward in much the same way they would to avoid a particularly large boulder. It wouldn't work over too large an area, if a zombie was determined to move in a specific direction, but certainly it would be enough to prevent a zombie from trying to break in a window. A farmhouse would be just another large obstacle to go around, not a likely hiding place for victims. You don't even know if zombies can remember orders as complicated as recognizing a house to break and enter, though after your recent discovery you're not as sure.
You snap the book shut when the dense text threatens to give you a headache. Between what you've gleaned from this book, and the orders you found in the zombie's mind, it seems Eko is right- they shouldn't have crossed the ward on their own. Clearly they did just that, but you can't figure out how.
You stretch, sinking back into the chair. That inquisition may have been fruitless, but you've got plenty of daylight yet- maybe it's time for an experiment. The more you think about it, the more it seems that Necromancy must have some interaction with souls- otherwise, Balkoth would not have been able to make his soul-stealing forest monster. And it hardly seems possible to manipulate a soul if you can't sense it.
Cautiously, you stick your head into the main room of the Temple. The children lie in exactly the position you saw them last- Ado Drunkenstumbles appears to be napping fitfully. Gliding over to your cot, you quietly sit on it, crossing your legs and leaning slightly toward where the children rest. Closing your eyes, you regulate your breathing, trying to center your thoughts. You try thinking about what the soul might be, the Spirit you vaguely remember the Sages mentioning as a child. You think about what it was like in the beginning, feeling that odd awareness of Vitality, feelings you now recognize to be early signs of your Necromancy manifesting itself. You bring your will to bear, trying to force those feelings to-
See Vitality
Your eyes open wide as you feel the spell resolve. To your eyes, Ado and the children suddenly resemble pulsing mounds of Vitality. You can see it flowing through them in rivers, branching streams spreading throughout their flesh, infusing every inch of them. In many ways, it looks like a zombie you're observing with your improved Necromantic Sight, except that the flow and interplay of Vitality is vastly more complicated. Squinting, you try to focus on the confusing jumble before you- you almost feel like you can detect internal organs, a powerful swirl that must be the heart, a rippling pulse...
You frown. There is definitely a difference between Ado and the children- more than one. A frenzied, seething mass of Vitality around Ado's wound must be his body healing itself, possibly spurred on by whatever spell Eko cast. With this new, incredibly detailed spell, you can actually feel his Vitality growing in infinitesimal increments as he heals, increased by each pulse of his inner Vitality. The children, however, are definitely not healing. Oh, their Vitality pulses as well, but it seems more akin to water washing around a tub, while Ado feels like the ripples of water being poured into the tub.
You silently rise to your feet, walking closer to Ado, fascinated by the pulsing of his Vitality. To your view, each surge seems to originate in the brain, flowing down toward the heart before surging to the rest of the body, swirling and lapping about. The brain itself seems to be a roiling mass of concentrated Vitality, expanding and contracting in time with the pulses. That mass of Vitality is convoluted beyond belief- only a subconscious suspicion makes you think it is organized and stable, rather than just a chaotic maelstrom.
By comparison, the children's brains are much less interesting. There is no real concentration of Vitality, although the head does hold proportionally more than the rest of the body, much as it seems to in Ado. Further, the pulses of Vitality leaving the brain are weak, and seem to die out before reaching the body's extremities. A splash and a ripple compared to Ado's surging waves. You could almost call their Vitality sluggish, compared to Ado, though it still moves in patterns more intricate than any zombie you've seen.
Could that concentration of Vitality be the soul? It does seem to be the only major difference between Ado and the children, the only one you can't attribute to differences in age or general health, but...
Abruptly, you come to a startling realization about what you are seeing. In your youth, back when your remarkable potential seemed sure to lead to a prestigious career as a Mage in Yicelafo, you were given lessons in rudimentary Life magic. Lessons you failed miserably, as you never displayed any aptitude for the art, only mastering the general spells available to all living creatures. One of the most basic spells you tried to learn, one of the first spells you failed to learn, was a more advanced version of Sense Vitality. The effects of that spell were supposed to be very like what you are seeing right now.
The afternoon is wearing on, and you're a little surprised that Eko hasn't returned yet. You're much less surprised that Omo hasn't either. What now?
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Author's Note (click to show/hide)
Post by: Felius on May 07, 2013, 10:04:54 pm
Also, we are getting more and more evidence that necromancy and life magic are in fact quite closely related, which might make for a nice publication far in the future once we either come out in public and/or die. :P
For now other than new planned experiments for the future with the wards, I guess we could see if we can start learning some spells. What spells do we have access to try to learn with the books we have now, other than the wards?
Post by: Chink on May 07, 2013, 10:23:45 pm
Practice more spells from Prestidigitation for Beginners.
Post by: RAM on May 08, 2013, 01:32:46 am
We really should make a journal of our magical studies, but it would be a risky thing if it was found.
Post by: Angle on May 08, 2013, 02:45:07 am
Post by: Zako on May 08, 2013, 02:51:59 am
The surges are interesting, especially where it seems concentrated and pulsing a lot around injuries as they heal. Could we move vitality around in someone's body to these injuries and increase the pulses/concentration of the vitality there to heal them faster? Maybe giving someone a burst of large surges could jumpstart someone, like the kids?
Also, HOW THE HELL DID YOU FINISH THAT GAME?! I never get that far! :(
Post by: monk12 on May 08, 2013, 10:52:51 am
I like how necromancy is actually mostly just moving life energy around and sensing it in various ways, and it's not actually the foul and evil craft that it's said to be. I mean, even raising the dead is just basically shoving vitality into a dead body with an underlying line of command to it. That's why I like this and why I'm glad to see it alive.
The surges are interesting, especially where it seems concentrated and pulsing a lot around injuries as they heal. Could we move vitality around in someone's body to these injuries and increase the pulses/concentration of the vitality there to heal them faster? Maybe giving someone a burst of large surges could jumpstart someone, like the kids?
Also, HOW THE HELL DID YOU FINISH THAT GAME?! I never get that far! :(
A solid month's worth of dying a lot and learning to run away- out of like 200 games, I've only had 3 characters touch even one Rune of Zot, 2 of which made it to the bottom of Zot, and only the winner managed to touch the Orb. It helped that I was competing/working with a friend to do it- he was the first one of us to grab the Orb, but he died on the way back up.
Also, cookie for one of the things you said
Post by: Parisbre56 on May 08, 2013, 12:42:01 pm
It seems like souls are indeed (at least in part) vitality constructs. The existance of ghosts and spirits raises the question of whether or not we could create a necromantic construct made out of pure vitality. Too bad we don't have a Life mage with us. Since they, like us, focus on vitality and have a very similar spell, it stands to reason that they would know at least some things about vitality and souls. Hmmm... that curse may be simple to solve. It may just be that no one with the right set of skills has come along. Someone who can understand what's going on here. A life mage or a necromancer. Maybe even nightroar can't understand what's going on here, since he seems too preoccupied with killing everything.
Perhaps the zombies can carry out more complex commands because they are human. We know that raise zombie recreates part of the vitality network of the corpse, so the more complex the corpse, the more complex the vitality network will be and thus more complex commands can be carried out. Then again, their creator may have altered their vitality network to be able to understand more complex commands.
"Go out and gather corpses..." Seems like whoever created them is building an army near the northern edge of the haunted forest. That means that Nightroar is still gathering his armies and preparing to strike. But why is he so close to Aloclesno? Is he moving to strike the elves first? Is he afraid of the human armies? Or could he have sensed us? Is he close enough to Command Undead? Is that why the wards "failed"?
Why would Eko hide the zombie? He could say he was afraid that the villagers would panic, but that's a weak excuse. He is very suspicious. We should find him and confront him, if not now, then soon.
We could do Animate Object and Alter Golem on the lock to open it and then Steal Vitality to destroy the golem, however that would take too much mana. By the time we were done, we would have no mana left. Too dangerous.
Hmmm... The question now is, can we recreate the vitality network in the children? Is the lost vitality stored somewhere for later consumption by whatever stalks the forest?
That flask seems weird. I wouldn't expect a follower of Order to be constantly drinking. And why is he constantly carrying one with him? It can't be a mana potion, he wouldn't need to drink from it all the time. Maybe some other form of alchemy? Maybe we should investigate it, try to take a small sip.
So for this turn I say:
1.Test the flask. Smell it, take a small sip, etc...
2.Find Omo and then go find Eko.
3.If there is nothing wrong with either of them, confront Eko about the zombie. Ask him why he didn't warn the villagers. Tell him we found the zombie while exploring the temple. Tell him we understand the need to perform experiments, however that's no reason to keep his fellow villagers in the dark. If they knew, they could have better defended themselves. Also ask him how did he manage to capture it without it killing him?
4. Prepare to venture into the forest.
Not so sure about 4, but I think it's the best we can do right now.
Post by: Angle on May 08, 2013, 01:03:05 pm
Post by: Descan on May 08, 2013, 01:09:19 pm
He might need a ready mana potion nearby at all times to replenish his stocks, if I remember correctly he's a fairly low-level mage so doesn't have much reserves at all.
Post by: Parisbre56 on May 08, 2013, 05:43:01 pm
Post by: RAM on May 08, 2013, 08:14:30 pm
Post by: Felius on May 09, 2013, 01:24:38 pm
I think that we should make another foray into the forest at some point. If we can reliably detect the entities, and destroy them with steal vitality, then the forest would be much safer for us than for most others. That is too much of a resource to pass up. And really, that forest seems to fall into the category of 'messes that necromancy left behind' so would be a nice bit of P.R. if we could clean it out...In the future, it does sound like something quite useful to do. Right now? Too much risk, too little gain. PR is not really important until we are outed as a necromancer, and if we can help it, we are not going to be so until we are in an really secure position, holding a lot of personal power.
Post by: Parisbre56 on May 09, 2013, 04:41:50 pm
Post by: Angle on May 09, 2013, 04:43:10 pm
Post by: kilakan on May 09, 2013, 04:54:18 pm
Post by: Felius on May 09, 2013, 05:02:37 pm
I think going into the forest is the best thing we can do. We've solved one part of the puzzle (we have a faint idea of what souls are and what is wrong with the children) and we need the second one (What did that thing do to them? If it stole their souls, where are the children's souls?). Going into the forest is the easiest and safest (for the children) way to accomplish that.It's also a good way to get attacked and become just like they are now. Don't go acting like the foolhardy adventurer. We don't have enough information and power to be able to reasonably bet that we would have a good chance of surviving, much less succeed. It's too bad for the children, but our chances of success are far too low. Instead, let's avoid creating more victims, specifically ourselves and Omo.
Sure, the forest is a point of interest, as is the whole soul stealing thing, but it's a place to come back later when we are, at least, more capable with our powers and in combat in general.
If we do manage to create a golem, I'd be reasonably ok with sending it, but we barely have any experience with them, and the best we did so far was a bit of animated rope. It is also quite risky, specially if the priest keep wards of detecting necromancy around such as the ones in the books we got. Honestly, animating small animals are a less risky bet, as that way at least we don't need to experiment our way into making a viable spy.
Post by: Parisbre56 on May 09, 2013, 05:45:11 pm
Besides, even if we leave the forest alone for now, where are we going to go? Nightroar is in the northern part of the forest with his army. Even more north the goblins and the beast people are raiding the villages.
And leaving these children here means certain death for them. If the necromancer strikes again the village will be evacuated and they will be left behind. It may not seem like it but we're pressed for time. And I won't let them die if I can help it. That's just my personal opinion.
Post by: Felius on May 09, 2013, 06:22:50 pm
It sucks for these kids, but all we are going to be doing if we go to the forest is most likely adding to the casualty list. I can't support an insane risk for the offchance that we might find something that could eventually lead to a cure. The whole "soul sucking" thing is all supposition on our part, we don't know for sure, and even if true, we don't know if their souls haven't been destroyed or gone to the afterlife, and even assuming that they were still there, accessible, thinking that we could manage sticking them back on their bodies on the time scale that we'd have, without both revealing ourselves and resorting to some really unethical experimentation is far bet, at best.
Let's be honest here. The kids are already gone, their bodies just didn't caught up with it yet. If the village evacuates and they don't take the kids with them, the best we can do for the kids is taking them with us on the off-chance we find a cure, sustaining them with drain vitality as needed, or ideally until we can hand them off for a life mage who might actually be able to take better care of them.
Post by: kilakan on May 09, 2013, 06:35:50 pm
Post by: Felius on May 09, 2013, 06:38:28 pm
Or we could go the semi-evil route and try making half-living constructs out of the children...That's... A possibility. Not really the style of our character here, but we probably could. Don't really support it, specially since if we go the semi-evil route the kids are more valuable as research material. :P
Post by: kilakan on May 09, 2013, 06:40:19 pm
Post by: Felius on May 09, 2013, 06:45:40 pm
Well like, try recreating the soul network in them with vitality or what not... and if they end up sentient and back great, if they end up mostly mindless and under our controll.... oh well.
Hmmm... It's not that bad idea if we don't find reasonable alternatives. At least we should see if we can find a life mage and check if they can heal it. And if nothing else, this might better done when we are more experienced instead of still exploring the basics of what we can do.
Post by: Angle on May 09, 2013, 06:47:51 pm
Spoiler: Parisbre (click to show/hide)
That's a good point.
Spoiler: Felius (click to show/hide)
Hmm. Well, we are supposed to be a hero, yes? So maybe it's time we do something heroic. Andi if we can pull this off, it might be a good way to get the villagers on our side.
Post by: Parisbre56 on May 09, 2013, 06:48:26 pm
And we can't give up without a fight. Would you look those children in the eye, shrug and say "Hey, I made a small effort. I was just too scared to continue. Sorry, but I value my life and yours just didn't seem worth the risk."
Besides, you haven't answered the question of where are we going to go. Nightroar is a few days away from us, maybe less. His forces and the beast men block the northern route. The southern route is too long. By the time we go through it, it may be too late. We've got our backs against the river here. We're forced to jump in and learn how to swim, just like we did when escaping the Vale. We didn't give up then, we shouldn't give up now.
Post by: Felius on May 09, 2013, 07:23:17 pm
Hmm. Well, we are supposed to be a hero, yes? So maybe it's time we do something heroic. Andi if we can pull this off, it might be a good way to get the villagers on our side.No. We are supposed to be a necromancer. We choose to go nicely about it, but don't go expecting the narrative causality to help us being heroic.
@Felius: The creature in the forest was never ment to fight necromancers or any other kind of mage. It was made by Bal... what's-his-name to take care of a guerrilla force that possessed no mages with which to defend themselves. And that's exactly what it has been doing. Preying on those that accidentally wander into the forest. No mage has made a serious effort to study or destroy that creature. The only people who have looked at its effects were order mages who know nothing about the intricacies of vitality networks. They regard that creature with almost superstitious fear, seeking to ward themselves from it instead of ridding the world from it. Yes, they SAY that all the people who entered the forest died, but none of those people was a necromancer.Semi-trained militia are still more skilled than us at fighting. Our only combat ability is drain vitality, and if that is disrupted, or we run out of mana, we are dead. If it start grappling with us, we are dead. And if we manage to fight, what then? Your plan seems to be "let's go off to the forest kill some creatures and randomly search around". We don't know anything about the theory behind it. All we have is some wild speculation and you want to take extreme risks based on that.
Quote
And we can't give up without a fight. Would you look those children in the eye, shrug and say "Hey, I made a small effort. I was just too scared to continue. Sorry, but I value my life and yours just didn't seem worth the risk."If that means we are still alive, yes. The kids are as good as dead. We are not some storybook hero who will always triumph. We are not in some fairy tale where everything will end well. Our good intentions and pure heart will not carry us to victory. Here, people die. Sometimes they are good. Sometimes they are bad. And a lot of the times the best that anyone can do is avoid adding to their numbers. Heroism has nothing to do with it.
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Besides, you haven't answered the question of where are we going to go. Nightroar is a few days away from us, maybe less. His forces and the beast men block the northern route. The southern route is too long. By the time we go through it, it may be too late. We've got our backs against the river here. We're forced to jump in and learn how to swim, just like we did when escaping the Vale. We didn't give up then, we shouldn't give up now.Escaping the Vale was not something we had much choice. Staying there was even riskier in the long term. Here, well, two kids are dead. We are not in a position that we can really help. Getting killed won't actually help them.
And fucking hell, you want to go alone into the forest. A squishy mage that barely discovered her powers. And about meat shields, are you willing to sacrifice Omo's life for this? Are you willing to risk revealing ourselves and get some villagers to serve as disposable meat shields? Or to raise a cemetery for corpses for some meat shields, and not only risk reveal but run out of mana?
What do I propose we do? Either write off the kids, or if the village decides to leave them here, take them with us, to maybe see if we can discern anything more specific about them in the future, and/or find a life mage that also might be able to study them in more depth.
Post by: racnor on May 09, 2013, 07:40:26 pm
Post by: Felius on May 09, 2013, 07:43:20 pm
I suggest we scout a bit with some undead/golems before we have this argument. I say golem, just for experimental purposes.That I can support, although I do point that we don't know how to work with golems well enough for it to be feasible. Some small undead animal might be possible though. Maybe a rat or a rabbit. Also, we should both kill and animate it somewhere relatively away from the village, and out of the way. No need to particularly risk reveal.
Post by: racnor on May 09, 2013, 07:46:55 pm
That's really the main reason I want to try this (that, and I want to see if golems have souls). In terms of sheer efficiency, I would say a small bird would be best.I suggest we scout a bit with some undead/golems before we have this argument. I say golem, just for experimental purposes.That I can support, although I do point that we don't know how to work with golems well enough for it to be feasible. Some small undead animal might be possible though. Maybe a rat or a rabbit. Also, we should both kill and animate it somewhere relatively away from the village, and out of the way. No need to particularly risk reveal.
Post by: Felius on May 09, 2013, 07:49:26 pm
The issue is that the best we managed to do thus far was a small animated rope from what I remember. Trying to go from there to making an effective scout is a job for more than a few days, let alone an afternoon. And that's assuming we can experiment without worrying about mana and discovery.That's really the main reason I want to try this (that, and I want to see if golems have souls). In terms of sheer efficiency, I would say a small bird would be best.I suggest we scout a bit with some undead/golems before we have this argument. I say golem, just for experimental purposes.That I can support, although I do point that we don't know how to work with golems well enough for it to be feasible. Some small undead animal might be possible though. Maybe a rat or a rabbit. Also, we should both kill and animate it somewhere relatively away from the village, and out of the way. No need to particularly risk reveal.
Post by: Parisbre56 on May 09, 2013, 08:29:26 pm
If that construct is made out of pure vitality, then even the largest army in the world would be defeated by it if it didn't have spellcasters. However it has only three vitality. We can kill it with two MP if we have to long before it gets dangerously close. And I'm not just saying "wander aimlessly in the forest". I have given a very specific course of action in one of my previous posts. In short it says carefully capture and study the creature and the area we found the children, or failing that kill it.@Felius: The creature in the forest was never ment to fight necromancers or any other kind of mage. It was made by Bal... what's-his-name to take care of a guerrilla force that possessed no mages with which to defend themselves. And that's exactly what it has been doing. Preying on those that accidentally wander into the forest. No mage has made a serious effort to study or destroy that creature. The only people who have looked at its effects were order mages who know nothing about the intricacies of vitality networks. They regard that creature with almost superstitious fear, seeking to ward themselves from it instead of ridding the world from it. Yes, they SAY that all the people who entered the forest died, but none of those people was a necromancer.Semi-trained militia are still more skilled than us at fighting. Our only combat ability is drain vitality, and if that is disrupted, or we run out of mana, we are dead. If it start grappling with us, we are dead. And if we manage to fight, what then? Your plan seems to be "let's go off to the forest kill some creatures and randomly search around". We don't know anything about the theory behind it. All we have is some wild speculation and you want to take extreme risks based on that.
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Apparently I do not believe that things are so bad we should give up yet.QuoteAnd we can't give up without a fight. Would you look those children in the eye, shrug and say "Hey, I made a small effort. I was just too scared to continue. Sorry, but I value my life and yours just didn't seem worth the risk."If that means we are still alive, yes. The kids are as good as dead. We are not some storybook hero who will always triumph. We are not in some fairy tale where everything will end well. Our good intentions and pure heart will not carry us to victory. Here, people die. Sometimes they are good. Sometimes they are bad. And a lot of the times the best that anyone can do is avoid adding to their numbers. Heroism has nothing to do with it.
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What choice do we have now? Where do we go from here if not through the forest? And we need no meatshield. Why would we? Physical shields are of no use against what lies there. Our powers are enough to handle this. You can't expect everything to be easy and risk free. Sometimes you have to take reasonable calculated risks.QuoteBesides, you haven't answered the question of where are we going to go. Nightroar is a few days away from us, maybe less. His forces and the beast men block the northern route. The southern route is too long. By the time we go through it, it may be too late. We've got our backs against the river here. We're forced to jump in and learn how to swim, just like we did when escaping the Vale. We didn't give up then, we shouldn't give up now.Escaping the Vale was not something we had much choice. Staying there was even riskier in the long term. Here, well, two kids are dead. We are not in a position that we can really help. Getting killed won't actually help them.
And fucking hell, you want to go alone into the forest. A squishy mage that barely discovered her powers. And about meat shields, are you willing to sacrifice Omo's life for this? Are you willing to risk revealing ourselves and get some villagers to serve as disposable meat shields? Or to raise a cemetery for corpses for some meat shields, and not only risk reveal but run out of mana?
What do I propose we do? Either write off the kids, or if the village decides to leave them here, take them with us, to maybe see if we can discern anything more specific about them in the future, and/or find a life mage that also might be able to study them in more depth.
And again, what use would a zombie scouting the forest be? Command undead has the same range as necromantic sight, so unless you find a way to boost its range the zombie can only scout the outskirts of the forest. And even then, the zombie would be incapable of something other then visual examination. If that thing is a ghost, it could pass right next to the zombie and we wouldn't even know it.
So I'm asking you again: If we don't go through the forest then where do we go? What is the course of action you are supporting besides a general "Run away"?
Post by: ~Neri on May 09, 2013, 08:51:17 pm
Post by: racnor on May 09, 2013, 08:51:56 pm
If we do attack I am in favor of luring this thing to the edge of the megaward(it noticed us pretty quick last time, shouldn't be that hard), examining it with our sight and see vitality(1 mp) and trying to command it(2 mp). Enemy or not, it's still a construct of the golden age of necromancy, or possibly a soul. Such nicely parceled knowledge is not to be scoffed at, though the children should still come first if there is a choice.
If that fails, or it gets too close, impair its "legs"(2 mp). That might immobilize it for later study. If THAT fails, drain it with our remaining power(2 mp, four 4 vit drained, instakill). If it's still there, get behind the ward.
this all costs 7 total mp, so we could do it right now.
In the end, my final vote is to fight it.
Post by: Angle on May 09, 2013, 08:53:56 pm
Post by: Felius on May 09, 2013, 08:59:11 pm
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However it has only three vitality. We can kill it with two MP if we have to long before it gets dangerously close. And I'm not just saying "wander aimlessly in the forest". I have given a very specific course of action in one of my previous posts. In short it says carefully capture and study the creature and the area we found the children, or failing that kill it.It is a very dense forest. We are not not even likely to get a shot at it before it is trying to eat our face. Your "course of action" is nearly impossible, very probably useless, and most likely suicidal.
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Apparently I do not believe that things are so bad we should give up yet.Evidently you are delusional, and thinks we are a story book hero who can bring forth victory through pure heart and good intentions. :P
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What choice do we have now? Where do we go from here if not through the forest? And we need no meatshield. Why would we? Physical shields are of no use against what lies there. Our powers are enough to handle this. You can't expect everything to be easy and risk free. Sometimes you have to take reasonable calculated risks.The point of the meatshield is not kill the beast for us. It is to die and buy us time to kill the beast. Because we have absolutely no skill in fighting and are going to die if it jumps us or get too close for casting. Physical barriers and shields are good to buy us time to try to cast a spell at whatever it is. And hope it actually works and it is not protected against it. Our powers are only enough if, not only it works, but we manage to cast before we are eaten and taken away.
And sure, sometimes we have to take reasonable and calculated risks. Sure, I don't expect everything to be easy and risk free. But I do like to avoid insane risks for very questionable gains.
And again, we barely know anything about the forest. For all we know there could be a small army of those things there and we were just lucky last time to only find one.
And besides, we are voting for what to do this afternoon since Omo and the priest have't returned. You want us to leave and go to the forest without now, without even finding them and telling you are going to try something?
Let's study the wards in the books. If we learn them well enough, maybe we can try to do something against the beast(s) in the forest. Methodically. And carefully. And using bait (live chicken, rats, or rabbits might be good for that). Trying to check its limitations before actually going after it.
Post by: Angle on May 09, 2013, 09:13:28 pm
Post by: Felius on May 09, 2013, 09:17:06 pm
I agree o not going now, but I don't think we should try and learn the wards. Those are Order magic, they won't work for us. We should study them enough to find a way to practice some necromancy without notifying Eko, and then experiment with golems.We might not be able to quite do the same wards, but we might be able to create a necromantic version of it, if not now, maybe later. Either way, we should study them, both results are good for us.
Post by: Zako on May 09, 2013, 09:50:07 pm
If we do make a golem, or a bunch of golems, I suggest we keep them small and made of stuff like wood and wires. We could disguise them as toys when we aren't using them that way. Also, I think that having our 'scouting' golems be small and capable of flight would be idea, something like a miniature helicopter with a claw to hold things like a key for example. Could be very useful I think.
Post by: Felius on May 09, 2013, 09:53:39 pm
As far as I can tell, the problem with golems is that they were unable to move well, if at all. That means we need to have them be able to move somehow, which can be quite complicated... How exactly are we going to build this golem?Indeed, but not for the time frame for the vote we are having right now. We are voting about what to do with one afternoon basically.
If we do make a golem, or a bunch of golems, I suggest we keep them small and made of stuff like wood and wires. We could disguise them as toys when we aren't using them that way. Also, I think that having our 'scouting' golems be small and capable of flight would be idea, something like a miniature helicopter with a claw to hold things like a key for example. Could be very useful I think.
Post by: Angle on May 09, 2013, 10:09:00 pm
Post by: RAM on May 09, 2013, 11:58:47 pm
The entity left the children with at least 2 vitality, so a lure probably needs more than that. The density of the forest is largely irrelevant, we can necromantically sense the entity at a distance. We can leave a note at the scene indicating that the forest was made safe by a good necromancer. It would give us good P.R. concerning the possibility that we are not just pure evil with minimal risk of discovery. We should have plenty of warning if we stay near the wards, so we could stay there for an hour or two and see if the critter shows up...
Post by: Felius on May 10, 2013, 12:00:49 am
I would like to spend much of our day's mana trying to bolster the children's vitality pulses. Basically C.P.R. for the soul... We should also have their senses covered and a sedative prepared so that the children have no idea who did it if it works and they wake up suddenly. Or we can play the life mage card, which could go badly if folk start looking for life mages to fix it, but would be less likely to fall apart due to us being an obvious recent influence on the children.Who we are going to drain to try to give them essence? Or are we going to try a completely new experimental action on them and risk screwing it up?
The entity left the children with at least 2 vitality, so a lure probably needs more than that. The density of the forest is largely irrelevant, we can necromantically sense the entity at a distance. We can leave a note at the scene indicating that the forest was made safe by a good necromancer. It would give us good P.R. concerning the possibility that we are not just pure evil with minimal risk of discovery. We should have plenty of warning if we stay near the wards, so we could stay there for an hour or two and see if the critter shows up...
Post by: RAM on May 10, 2013, 12:10:15 am
Post by: Felius on May 10, 2013, 12:11:54 am
Well it is going to be completely experimental regardless, but if we can safely channel two vitality into them from our own reserves then that should be enough for the experiment. But as a precision procedure it would help if we had a donor. Maybe we can store vitality in a crystal and then extract it later using necromancy without the thing being depleted. We could try asking Omo, but be honest that it is a pretty experimental procedure and probably wouldn't work. Trees probably have enough vitality to try to jump-start a human child without permanent damage...It goes, if I remember correctly, at a rate of 3 to 1. To give them 2 vitality it is going to cost us 6, which is a rather big amount. Same thing for any volunteer we get. It is a possibility, but we've already kind tried something quite similar to no result.
Post by: RAM on May 10, 2013, 12:22:44 am
Post by: Felius on May 10, 2013, 12:30:50 am
That was just dumping the vitality into them to keep them alive. My proposal is more about trying to replicate their normal processes. Even if it doesn't work, it should give us an insight into their condition.
Ah, I see. It is an interesting experiment. I'd like to try it on a rabbit, fish or something before going for the kids though. And it might not be a good idea to do so under the noses of our current host.
Post by: RAM on May 10, 2013, 12:57:54 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on May 10, 2013, 06:38:50 am
Again, I'm not proposing we go wander aimlessly into the forest. From my previous post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=96692.msg4195167#msg4195167):QuoteHowever it has only three vitality. We can kill it with two MP if we have to long before it gets dangerously close. And I'm not just saying "wander aimlessly in the forest". I have given a very specific course of action in one of my previous posts. In short it says carefully capture and study the creature and the area we found the children, or failing that kill it.It is a very dense forest. We are not not even likely to get a shot at it before it is trying to eat our face. Your "course of action" is nearly impossible, very probably useless, and most likely suicidal.
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3. If all else fails, go to the forest and investigate the clearing we found the children in for vitality and magic. If we come upon the thing that attacked us last night, try to capture it with Command or Impair Undead on its legs instead of killing it with Drain Vitality if possible, so that we may analyze it with our necromantic sight and the command undead spell.That is my proposal. All those spells are line of sight spells. A clearing has nothing to obstruct line of sight. My course of action is very possible, very useful (unless you know of a different quick and morally acceptable way to analyze the undead and gain more knowledge about soul manipulation and advanced necromantic constructs) and contains no more risk then taking on a zombie.
And the whole concept of the traveling necromancer is suicidal. The main necromancer's army is A FEW DAYS away from us. An army of the undead is a few days away from us. If that isn't suicidal, I don't know what is. If Nym wanted a safe way to gain knowledge, she should had chosen the life of a hermit lost deep inside the Vale, or she should have taken Fale's offer and joined the evil necromancers.
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What choice do we have now? Where do we go from here if not through the forest? And we need no meatshield. Why would we? Physical shields are of no use against what lies there. Our powers are enough to handle this. You can't expect everything to be easy and risk free. Sometimes you have to take reasonable calculated risks.That thing doesn't fight physically. It has no claws or knifes. It fights through the alteration of vitality through physical contact. It is an ambush predator, striking sleeping or unaware enemies. And it cannot ambush us. Our abilities make sure we can sense it well before it is upon us. That means that we are going to have enough time to prepare to fight it.QuoteThe point of the meatshield is not kill the beast for us. It is to die and buy us time to kill the beast. Because we have absolutely no skill in fighting and are going to die if it jumps us or get too close for casting. Physical barriers and shields are good to buy us time to try to cast a spell at whatever it is. And hope it actually works and it is not protected against it. Our powers are only enough if, not only it works, but we manage to cast before we are eaten and taken away.
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And sure, sometimes we have to take reasonable and calculated risks. Sure, I don't expect everything to be easy and risk free. But I do like to avoid insane risks for very questionable gains.It is no more riskier to us then fighting a zombie. And if you see studying an advanced necromantic construct, something we are unlikely to learn how to build on our own, as "questionable gains", what is "non-questionable gains"?
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And again, we barely know anything about the forest. For all we know there could be a small army of those things there and we were just lucky last time to only find one.There is definitely a small army of those things in the forest. It's the only way they could cover the entire forest at all times. However, because they are covering the entire forest at all times, we are unlikely to come upon more then one.
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And besides, we are voting for what to do this afternoon since Omo and the priest have't returned. You want us to leave and go to the forest without now, without even finding them and telling you are going to try something?No we aren't, we're discussing long term plans, unless you can rise an army of the undead overnight, like you said in a previous post. I deduced from that that we are discussing long term plans. I've already given my short term action here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=96692.msg4233549#msg4233549).
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Let's study the wards in the books. If we learn them well enough, maybe we can try to do something against the beast(s) in the forest. Methodically. And carefully. And using bait (live chicken, rats, or rabbits might be good for that). Trying to check its limitations before actually going after it.We've already studied the wards. They are Order magic. We can't even begin to understand how they work, let alone replicate them. If they were Life spells, maybe we could replicate them. But Order is something completely different from Death. The only thing you could do is try to replicate their effects and to do that, you have to actually tell us how exactly you'll go about doing that.
And what makes you think that thing will go after the bait first, instead of going after us?
I would like to spend much of our day's mana trying to bolster the children's vitality pulses. Basically C.P.R. for the soul... We should also have their senses covered and a sedative prepared so that the children have no idea who did it if it works and they wake up suddenly. Or we can play the life mage card, which could go badly if folk start looking for life mages to fix it, but would be less likely to fall apart due to us being an obvious recent influence on the children.It would be a good experiment, although unlikely to succeed because
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"They didn't know at first- cripplingly, their Wizards had died in the initial confrontation with Balkoth, and by the time they knew what was going on it was too late. After a few days, desertion was rampant, and Girus was forced to withdraw from the forest with a fraction of his army. Hounded by zombies, he withdrew to the West, hoping to raise another army before Balkoth could sack Atkilpeme. They managed to bring some of the afflicted to the cities on the Great River, and the Wizards there were able to identify the problem- the soldiers had had their souls removed." Somberly, Eko raises his flask to his lips.So, since they lack that part of their vitality network, their soul that makes them unique, even if you did recreate it, they would probably not be the same person. Then again we have heard the stories about the elves that resurrected the dead, so maybe there is something in the body that allows the soul to repair itself, given enough vitality and the right stimulation. And, from here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=96692.msg3891356#msg3891356), you can suck vitality from yourself and manipulate it without any of it being lost, although it's not pleasant. So if you draw vitality for yourself, one vitality drawn=one vitality given.
You are silent for a long moment. "Uh... what's a soul?" Omo asks, scratching his head.
Eko coughs, spluttering on his drink. "What's a.. what's a soul? Did you pay no attention to your priest, boy?"
"We're, ah, from far away." You say carefully. "Maybe we call it something else."
"Far away..." He gives you a considering look, then stabs a finger at you. "You, my dear, are an elf."
"I- well, yes. We don't advertise the fact- we prefer to keep a low profile."
Eko shakes his head. "I should have figured it out before now- your clothes and appearance are enough, if I hadn't been distracted by the children. I'm sure you have a story to tell, but you're my guests, and I won't make you tell it if you don't want to. Well. The soul is... it's the animating spirit, I suppose you could say. Everything living has one- humans, elves, animals, bugs... well maybe not bugs, I've never asked. Think of a zombie- they walk around, their bodies move, but they aren't really alive. They don't think, they have no ambition, no personality- they're just empty shells. Your body is just a sack of meat that carries you around, and the part of you that is uniquely you is the soul."
So, to restate my short term actions:
1.Test the flask. Smell it, pour some in a glass, take a small sip, etc...
2.Find Omo and then go find Eko.
3.If there is nothing wrong with either of them, confront Eko about the zombie. Ask him why he didn't warn the villagers. Tell him we found the zombie while exploring the temple. (We were curious about what was in the basement. We were curious about what was in those trapdoors because they looked like prison cells and we couldn't understand their purpose.) Tell him we understand the need to perform experiments, however that's no reason to keep his fellow villagers in the dark. If they knew, they could have better defended themselves. Also ask him how did he manage to capture it without it killing him?
4. Prepare to venture into the forest. (Preparations will depend on the results of the previous actions (if we get to complete them without problems) , so that is why I left it vague. It is a way to state my long term intentions, not a proposal to go into the forest right now.)
Post by: Grek on May 10, 2013, 07:00:20 am
Defeating the spirit we saw before should not be difficult. We know what it is, what it does and how it was made. We can see it coming using our necromantic vision, and we can destroy it with Steal Vitality.
Post by: Parisbre56 on May 10, 2013, 07:08:36 am
And I think studying that thing before killing it is more beneficial.
Post by: RAM on May 10, 2013, 08:28:32 am
I feel that at the moment we are still learning about the soul, if these vitality pulses are reflections of the soul, then the fact that the children still possess them at all suggests that stmulating those pulses is within the bounds of things that we aren't really confident won't work. And if it fails, then we might see that there is an absent source, or that the flows are encountering resistance, or that a proportion of the vitality is vanishing, or anything really, the point is that there is a small chance that, whatever has afflicted these children(The soul-stealing thing seems to be an assumption based upon the victim's symptoms, it is still possible that they have been misdiagnosed.) could be reversed by stimulating their natural functions. And there is also a chance that we could learn something from the process. Andthe worst case scenario is that an angry mob walks in on us pushing somehow visible murky purple energy into the soulless child who then wakes up and starts screaming about Evil spirits. And then the roof collapses on our head. ad then a goblin steals our pig tail sock and then drops it in a giant cave spider lair.
I don't really want Nym to confront Eko about the zombie. We do have our own secrets afterall. But if we can extort an answer from them then it would satisfy curiosity and could potentially get us an ally or reveal some form of threat...
Post by: Felius on May 10, 2013, 09:48:30 am
Post by: RAM on May 10, 2013, 11:07:18 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on May 10, 2013, 11:07:54 am
You want to march through the forest, hoping we don't get ambushed before getting to the clearing, hoping there is only one creature once you get there,Worked fine the first time. What's changed?
We can't get ambushed because of our necromantic sight which works even if the thing is buried 30 feet underground.
And the reasonable assumption is that there is only one creature there. Whatever that thing is, it will surely be costly to build. It stands to reason that a necromancer would only assign one of those per section of the forest. Even if there's more per section of the forest, they do not seem to have very sophisticated orders (the thing charged straight at us), thus pack hunting is unlikely.
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hoping that you manage to hit, try to hit with a non-lethal strike?We're a necromancer. We're not casting lvl.1 fireball here. These are very specific spells that work with line of sight. The spells are comprised of looking at the thing and concentrating on its vitality, using our will to connect with it and then imposing our will to it. Remember, that thing was made to kill normal human soldiers. It was never meant to go up against necromancers, thus we have no reason to believe it is protected against necromantic attacks any more then a zombie is. Its biggest weapon is fear, the fear it's causing you right now.
Post by: Angle on May 10, 2013, 11:17:04 am
Post by: Zavvnao on May 10, 2013, 11:53:49 am
Post by: racnor on May 10, 2013, 03:44:25 pm
on the thing in the forest: if it worries you so much, we can bring a bunch of stick and make a barricade(remember, it was stopped by a fallen log. Its the size of a large dog.) that will give us plenty of time to get behind the wards. If we need more security, then we can wait for our mana to regenerate.
On being found out: blame it on the zombie, if it happens.
Post by: Parisbre56 on May 10, 2013, 05:16:21 pm
Something like a shark proof cage for necromantic constructs? Or something like a hunter's blind? Or a fence? Either way, good idea.
Post by: racnor on May 10, 2013, 05:36:05 pm
Also, a fence.
"You'll let the children die?" You say incredulously.
"What else can I do? My magics have failed me again. The records say that in the past we've called on healers from all faiths, even the Elves, but the Mages could do nothing for us. These bodies could easily persist into old age if we cared for them, but for what purpose? They are already dead, and the living still need my care."
Post by: RAM on May 10, 2013, 11:00:59 pm
Post by: fergus on May 11, 2013, 08:19:43 am
So, to restate my short term actions:+1 to this.
1.Test the flask. Smell it, pour some in a glass, take a small sip, etc...
2.Find Omo and then go find Eko.
3.If there is nothing wrong with either of them, confront Eko about the zombie. Ask him why he didn't warn the villagers. Tell him we found the zombie while exploring the temple. (We were curious about what was in the basement. We were curious about what was in those trapdoors because they looked like prison cells and we couldn't understand their purpose.) Tell him we understand the need to perform experiments, however that's no reason to keep his fellow villagers in the dark. If they knew, they could have better defended themselves. Also ask him how did he manage to capture it without it killing him?
4. Prepare to venture into the forest. (Preparations will depend on the results of the previous actions (if we get to complete them without problems) , so that is why I left it vague. It is a way to state my long term intentions, not a proposal to go into the forest right now.)
Post by: Angle on May 11, 2013, 08:41:38 am
+1So, to restate my short term actions:+1 to this.
1.Test the flask. Smell it, pour some in a glass, take a small sip, etc...
2.Find Omo and then go find Eko.
3.If there is nothing wrong with either of them, confront Eko about the zombie. Ask him why he didn't warn the villagers. Tell him we found the zombie while exploring the temple. (We were curious about what was in the basement. We were curious about what was in those trapdoors because they looked like prison cells and we couldn't understand their purpose.) Tell him we understand the need to perform experiments, however that's no reason to keep his fellow villagers in the dark. If they knew, they could have better defended themselves. Also ask him how did he manage to capture it without it killing him?
4. Prepare to venture into the forest. (Preparations will depend on the results of the previous actions (if we get to complete them without problems) , so that is why I left it vague. It is a way to state my long term intentions, not a proposal to go into the forest right now.)
Post by: RoaryStar on May 11, 2013, 11:18:03 am
I guess this doesn't have much of a problem.+1So, to restate my short term actions:+1 to this.
1.Test the flask. Smell it, pour some in a glass, take a small sip, etc...
2.Find Omo and then go find Eko.
3.If there is nothing wrong with either of them, confront Eko about the zombie. Ask him why he didn't warn the villagers. Tell him we found the zombie while exploring the temple. (We were curious about what was in the basement. We were curious about what was in those trapdoors because they looked like prison cells and we couldn't understand their purpose.) Tell him we understand the need to perform experiments, however that's no reason to keep his fellow villagers in the dark. If they knew, they could have better defended themselves. Also ask him how did he manage to capture it without it killing him?
4. Prepare to venture into the forest. (Preparations will depend on the results of the previous actions (if we get to complete them without problems) , so that is why I left it vague. It is a way to state my long term intentions, not a proposal to go into the forest right now.)
+1
Post by: ~Neri on May 16, 2013, 08:40:38 pm
Post by: laularukyrumo on June 01, 2013, 11:18:29 pm
OP COME BACK TO US
Post by: joemoben on June 01, 2013, 11:56:31 pm
Post by: RAM on June 02, 2013, 12:08:52 am
Post by: monk12 on June 11, 2013, 10:54:05 am
I guess this doesn't have much of a problem.+1So, to restate my short term actions:+1 to this.
1.Test the flask. Smell it, pour some in a glass, take a small sip, etc...
2.Find Omo and then go find Eko.
3.If there is nothing wrong with either of them, confront Eko about the zombie. Ask him why he didn't warn the villagers. Tell him we found the zombie while exploring the temple. (We were curious about what was in the basement. We were curious about what was in those trapdoors because they looked like prison cells and we couldn't understand their purpose.) Tell him we understand the need to perform experiments, however that's no reason to keep his fellow villagers in the dark. If they knew, they could have better defended themselves. Also ask him how did he manage to capture it without it killing him?
4. Prepare to venture into the forest. (Preparations will depend on the results of the previous actions (if we get to complete them without problems) , so that is why I left it vague. It is a way to state my long term intentions, not a proposal to go into the forest right now.)
+1
Even so, he IS withholding information and acting strangely. If there is something wrong, we should know about it. If he has some kind of a problem, we should know about it so we can maybe help him. We're not shaking him down, we're not extorting him. We're asking because we care and are concerned both about his safety and the safety of the villagers.
And I think studying that thing before killing it is more beneficial.
You stretch, rubbing your head as you walk away from the resting patients. Dismissing your See Vitality spell, you return to the fireside armchair to think about what you've learned. You know Eko knew about nearby zombies before the attacks, but said nothing. You're pretty sure he's a Wizard and not a Necromancer, but it's still strange behavior. You know Eko has been concealing a zombie in the basement of an Order Temple, though how he got it down there is a mystery. You know (or at least guess) that he's been experimenting on that zombie. You know... he's been drinking a lot?
Curious, you walk back to Eko's room. Snatching up the flask from the bedstand, you pop the lid off and carefully smell the contents. You are rewarded with the scent of pungent, bitter beer; Sewer Brew, if you had to guess. Not a popular beverage among the elves, but it was the drink of choice for many human Caravan guards since it was nearly as inexpensive as it was intoxicating. Maybe Eko is like Pevo, mixing his Mana potions with alcohol, but you don't really want to test that theory directly. Besides, you saw him drinking from a flask like this just this morning, not long after breakfast.
You've more than half a mind to investigate the forest further, but Eko is definitely keeping secrets. He might be able to provide more information if you confront him about it, and whether it's about the zombies or the forest, more information is a good thing. You resolve to do just that... after you find Omo. You don't think things will get violent, but prudence never hurt anyone.
Setting the flask down, you grab your cloak and check your headband before hitting the streets of Bedscaled. You pause a moment on the temple steps as a brisk wind grabs at your cloak; a much stronger gust than the breezes you knew in Yicelafo. The Sun is bright in the sky, sinking toward evening, and the cloudless sky promises a starry night.
You peer up and down the street, gathering your cloak and trying to deduce which way Omo might have gone. There really aren't many places of interest in the village itself: a blacksmith works his forge not too far away, another house advertises a carpenter's workshop around back, and a broad side street leads to the village well. No inns, no taverns, no places of song or dance or drink. It's the sort of pastoral scene that would have fit in Yicelafo with a few cosmetic changes, and not the sort of place Omo would seek out. On a hunch, you walk down the road to the East, where the villagers have been digging a defensive ditch.
Up close, the ditch is quite impressive, as deep and wide as the shovels used to dig it. The bottom is quite muddy, a morass no attacker could easily escape. The dirt has been piled on the inside, forming a packed earthen wall to further slow invaders. The only break in the defense is the road leading east; a few heavy wagons stand ready to block the path, with extra barrels and bags of dirt to give the barricade extra weight. You can see that the ditch does not yet fully protect the village. Though the Northern end bends out of sight around the village, you can still see the Southern end of the ditch just short of making it's own Westward bend. You can also see the reason the South end of the project is not so far along as the North end.
"There we were, just outside the dark, haunted forest," you hear Omo say as you approach his end of the ditch. Omo gestures expansively to his audience, half a dozen burly villagers leaning on their shovels. Another group of villagers continues the work of digging, but you can tell from their slow pace and turned heads that they're spending more time listening to Omo than they are working.
"So I cracked him in the head with my staff, of course! I couldn't let a moldy old zombie stand between me and the children. But that's when I realized-" Omo cuts off in surprise when he sees you wave. Making hasty goodbyes and ignoring calls to finish his story, Omo walks over to join you.
"Do you really think you should be distracting the ditch-diggers with your tales?" You ask dryly.
"What?" Omo asks innocently. "I'm keeping spirits up! We're practically heroes here; well, I am, anyway. I have to leave out most of the bits you did. They do think you're brave for coming with me, and the part where we flee the forest monster with the kids on our backs is a crowd pleaser."
"Is it? How many people have you told this story?"
"Oh, I don't know. Everyone who asks, which is everyone I talk to for more than a minute. I can see why bards spend all their time telling stories; it's fun! And it's not like there's much else to do in this town. Did you finish your book?"
"I read what I wanted to." You reply curtly, kicking at a clod of dirt. "And now you and I are going to ask Eko some pointed questions about the you-know-what."
"The what? Oh!" Omo throws up his hands at your level stare. "What? That's nothing I want to dwell on. Are you sure confronting Eko is wise?"
"I'm sure it's the fastest way to get some solid information. I'm tired of guesswork. As soon as he gets back, we ask him."
"Well, you won't have to wait long." Omo points down the road. "Looks like Eko's back."
Squinting, you can make out a robed figure making its way toward the village in the distance. Soon enough, you clearly recognize Eko Cleanvise walking with shoulders slumped and head down. He straightens up as he nears the village, running a hand over his balding head and settling authority over his shoulders like a cloak. He nods to the ditch-diggers, who ignore him as he walks by. You and Omo fall in on either side of him as you walk back toward the Temple.
"So... the wards all good?" You ask, fumbling for a way to broach the zombie in the basement.
"Yes, yes, no problems there. The village should have some warning if any zombies come this way." Eko replies absently.
"Great, great. Uh..."
"Speaking of zombies, we found the one you've got tied up in the basement." Omo interjects.
Eko stumbles, biting back an oath as he anxiously looks to see if anyone is nearby. You have the road to yourselves, but Eko grabs each of you by the arm and pulls you in closer. "I'm sorry, what?" Eko speaks quickly, and nervously. "I don't know what you're talking about."
"You really want us to believe you don't know everything that goes on in your own Temple? Besides, we found your notes. Don't worry, we're not going to tell your secret to anybody."
"Though maybe you should have told the villagers before the zombie attacks." Omo says darkly. "Maybe you wouldn't have two orphans to care for in your Temple."
"I couldn't have known there was an attack coming!" Eko protests, frantically waving his arms. "I cast my divinations, and there wasn't another zombie around for miles! I thought it was just a straggler from the fight to the North. I did nothing wrong!" Eko begins fumbling his flask from beneath his robes, then pauses, his eyes narrowing suspiciously. "Wait... how did you know I found that zombie before the attacks?"
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Author's Note (click to show/hide)
Post by: Deep Waters on June 11, 2013, 10:59:04 am
Quote
Eko begins fumbling his flask from beneath his robes, then pauses, his eyes narrowing suspiciously. "Wait... how did you know I found that zombie before the attacks?"
Er... how did we know he found the zombie before the attacks? Did we just assume or what?
Post by: monk12 on June 11, 2013, 11:11:22 am
QuoteEko begins fumbling his flask from beneath his robes, then pauses, his eyes narrowing suspiciously. "Wait... how did you know I found that zombie before the attacks?"
Er... how did we know he found the zombie before the attacks? Did we just assume or what?
You probed the zombie's mind with Necromancy (Command Undead, specifically) in the last update (all links in the OP, if you need to refresh yourself on what exactly you learned.)
Post by: Zako on June 11, 2013, 11:19:44 am
- The list was somewhat extensive and completely crossed out, which means that he had it for some time and it makes sense for him to have captured it before the attacks given the timeframe and length of the list, not to mention he would have been too busy with the attacks and recent stuff to experiment on it
- It looked (and smelled) like it had been there awhile
- The villagers would have been very paranoid about undead around the time of the attacks so sneaking one in before an attack would have been a lot easier
- If we need to bullshit our way through: Our superior elven senses picked up something funky coming from downstairs
Still, press for information, he might know some interesting things. And make sure to get across that we have no intention of selling him out since it would be kinda heartless and cold of us to do so, when he does seem to be only trying to help others however he can against something he doesn't understand all that well.
Also: Take a mental note to scold Omo for almost blowing our cover and exposing us as a necromancer. People are not generally as understanding as he is, and while we appreciate his support and understand where he's coming from where it involves the children, it's dangerous for us as it is without him relying overly much on information coming from our powers.
Post by: Parisbre56 on June 11, 2013, 02:22:57 pm
A few reasons:+1 I don't think anyone outside the Veil really knows what the elves are capable of. Sure, they may have heard or read things, but nobody really knows. We can dismiss some of our necromantic powers as Life magic. Like, we are someone who learned some basics about life magic and then decided to run away from home for one reason or another (not really lying if you think about it, just omitting details). And since zombies have vitality, Life powers would work on them.
- The list was somewhat extensive and completely crossed out, which means that he had it for some time and it makes sense for him to have captured it before the attacks given the timeframe and length of the list, not to mention he would have been too busy with the attacks and recent stuff to experiment on it
- It looked (and smelled) like it had been there awhile
- The villagers would have been very paranoid about undead around the time of the attacks so sneaking one in before an attack would have been a lot easier
- If we need to bullshit our way through: Our superior elven senses picked up something funky coming from downstairs
Still, press for information, he might know some interesting things. And make sure to get across that we have no intention of selling him out since it would be kinda heartless and cold of us to do so, when he does seem to be only trying to help others however he can against something he doesn't understand all that well.
Edit: Also, add to the above excuses that we never saw or sensed him in the basement during our stay there.
Quote
Also: Take a mental note to scold Omo for almost blowing our cover and exposing us as a necromancer. People are not generally as understanding as he is, and while we appreciate his support and understand where he's coming from where it involves the children, it's dangerous for us as it is without him relying overly much on information coming from our powers.Yeah, it's clearly all Omo's fault. It's not like our (read: mine) suggestion had that in and everybody failed to notice it. ;) Nope, not our fault at all.
Post by: javierpwn on June 11, 2013, 03:37:28 pm
It wouldn't be too far off base, considering most Elves should know how to sense vitality, and Life mages can sense Undead with the right methods.
Post by: Grek on June 11, 2013, 05:02:36 pm
What did we want to ask him, again...?
Post by: RAM on June 11, 2013, 07:35:44 pm
I think that we have scolded Omo enough. They should know by now that we don't approve, and we hardly want to start being tyrannical... Otherwise I agree with Zako's plan.
P.S.
Yay! Update!!!
Post by: javierpwn on June 11, 2013, 08:04:14 pm
Post by: Chink on June 11, 2013, 08:21:04 pm
Post by: RAM on June 11, 2013, 09:09:15 pm
Post by: killerhellhound on June 11, 2013, 09:16:59 pm
Post by: Harbingerjm on June 11, 2013, 09:59:02 pm
A few reasons:
- The list was somewhat extensive and completely crossed out, which means that he had it for some time and it makes sense for him to have captured it before the attacks given the timeframe and length of the list, not to mention he would have been too busy with the attacks and recent stuff to experiment on it
- It looked (and smelled) like it had been there awhile
- The villagers would have been very paranoid about undead around the time of the attacks so sneaking one in before an attack would have been a lot easier
- If we need to bullshit our way through: Our superior elven senses picked up something funky coming from downstairs
Still, press for information, he might know some interesting things. And make sure to get across that we have no intention of selling him out since it would be kinda heartless and cold of us to do so, when he does seem to be only trying to help others however he can against something he doesn't understand all that well.
Agreed.
I would rather not tell them that we can use life magic, they may want us to use more of it, it is not as though life magic couldn't help the village... These people likely know little about elves,and Omo is an experienced tracker, and corpses are not exactly polite, sofindingnoticing it by mundane means is likely to be a convincing lie.
Agreed.
Also, I think we should ask for more details on this sometime soon:
"What else can I do? My magics have failed me again. The records say that in the past we've called on healers from all faiths, even the Elves, but the Mages could do nothing for us. These bodies could easily persist into old age if we cared for them, but for what purpose? They are already dead, and the living still need my care."Specifically, the bit about elves attempting to help them cure people who got drained in the forest. It seems odd that back in the village, Pevo told us
I was attacked by a great skeletal monstrosity. Everything we know about Necromancy says that the creature couldn't possibly date to the Golgothan War- undead simply do not last that long without being cared for.if the elves have been involved in treating victims of another leftover of the Golgothan War.
Post by: Grek on June 11, 2013, 10:50:09 pm
And healing is probably also a basic life magic spell...
We can just tell him that we're not trained as a healer.
Post by: RAM on June 11, 2013, 11:43:32 pm
Post by: Zako on June 12, 2013, 02:11:13 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on June 12, 2013, 05:12:15 am
We could just tell him we were bluffing, and thank him for confirming our guess.I think this is the best idea. Saying something along the lines of "Well, we only strongly suspected it based on <other stuff> but thanks for confirming it."
Maybe also try to clear our mind and prevent him from drinking from his flask, just in case he gets any ideas and tries to cast probe thoughts on us.
And about magic, we can say we left before we learnt more then a couple of basic spells, which isn't far from the truth.
Post by: RAM on June 12, 2013, 05:40:55 am
Post by: Harbingerjm on June 12, 2013, 05:50:17 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on June 12, 2013, 09:59:44 am
Post by: Harbingerjm on June 12, 2013, 08:20:43 pm
We'd be posing as a life mage who didn't even learn healing before leaving. No skills at foraging (or much else, for that matter), few ways to make money, etc.
According to Pevo, the last elf to leave was over 200 years ago. That's not exactly a high-frequency occurrence.
We might be able to sell it, with difficulty. We might not. Why risk trying when we don't need to?
Post by: Grek on June 12, 2013, 09:22:39 pm
Not all life mages are healers. There are other aspects of life magic than healing. Important examples include: Beast taming, wood shaping and, most relevant to our case: Undead destroying.
Post by: RAM on June 12, 2013, 10:35:57 pm
Bear in mind that we are faced with both a trained magic-user and a village of nonmagical folk. Folk probably have stories of life mages fighting in the old war, likely extremely inaccurate, but enough to cover the basics of battling undead and healing. Life magic being associated with healing would likely also be a fairly obvious assumption, someone is bound to want to have a chronic injury or disease removed. Magical opposition probably has cultural significance, so should be common knowledge. Anyone who thinks about it will likely realise that Life is opposed to Death so it is probably that rumours will emerge that Life magic directly opposes Death magic, with obvious implications for the current circumstances. Avoiding the villager inquisition would require preventing Eko from revealing our abilities. Eko on the other hand has enough training to know how Order works, and is unlikely to be swayed by "Oh, all elves have some magic, most of us just don't bother training much" or some similar line about Life being different, and it still doesn't explain why random elves, who are probably seen so rarely as to be nearly mythical, turning up and asking about the skeletons in his closet.
The best excuse I have been able to come up with is that we were kicked out of magic school for some sort of transgression. Better to just go for mundane reasons. We had a tourist's interest in the foreign temple, were offered the run of the place, and set to exploring every nook and cranny...
Post by: monk12 on June 15, 2013, 02:13:06 pm
A few reasons:
- The list was somewhat extensive and completely crossed out, which means that he had it for some time and it makes sense for him to have captured it before the attacks given the timeframe and length of the list, not to mention he would have been too busy with the attacks and recent stuff to experiment on it
- It looked (and smelled) like it had been there awhile
- The villagers would have been very paranoid about undead around the time of the attacks so sneaking one in before an attack would have been a lot easier
- If we need to bullshit our way through: Our superior elven senses picked up something funky coming from downstairs
Still, press for information, he might know some interesting things. And make sure to get across that we have no intention of selling him out since it would be kinda heartless and cold of us to do so, when he does seem to be only trying to help others however he can against something he doesn't understand all that well.
Agreed.I would rather not tell them that we can use life magic, they may want us to use more of it, it is not as though life magic couldn't help the village... These people likely know little about elves,and Omo is an experienced tracker, and corpses are not exactly polite, sofindingnoticing it by mundane means is likely to be a convincing lie.
Agreed.
Also, I think we should ask for more details on this sometime soon:"What else can I do? My magics have failed me again. The records say that in the past we've called on healers from all faiths, even the Elves, but the Mages could do nothing for us. These bodies could easily persist into old age if we cared for them, but for what purpose? They are already dead, and the living still need my care."Specifically, the bit about elves attempting to help them cure people who got drained in the forest. It seems odd that back in the village, Pevo told usI was attacked by a great skeletal monstrosity. Everything we know about Necromancy says that the creature couldn't possibly date to the Golgothan War- undead simply do not last that long without being cared for.if the elves have been involved in treating victims of another leftover of the Golgothan War.
Eko eyes Omo suspiciously. "Wait... how did you know I found that zombie before the attacks?"
You glare at Omo past Eko's head, then smile as the priest turns to face you. "That list was rather long, and crossed out like you'd tried everything. You haven't had the opportunity to play with it since we've been here, and I doubt you did all that in the brief period between the zombie attacks and our arrival."
"This is hardly about how we knew, anyway!" Omo says angrily. "This is about you hiding a you-know-what from the villagers!"
"I don't believe you are evil, Eko. We won't tell anyone. We just don't understand why you wouldn't tell anyone else."
Eko's shoulders slump, defeated. "There are protocols for dealing with the undead in Thrimesdur. There is small leeway to learn what you can. You're expected to use your Divinations, then destroy the undead as soon as possible."
"Divinations?" You ask.
"Yes. They are Order spells to observe and analyze; they've never been my strong suit. When I tried them on the zombie, I didn't learn anything that about how it had gotten past the ward."
You glance up and down the street; still empty. "Where did you find this zombie, anyway?"
"On the first of Felsite, I was-" Eko begins, running a hand through his sparse hair.
"The first what?" Omo asks in confusion.
"You know, Felsite." You and Omo exchange blank looks. "The month? Last month of spring, third month of the year?" Eko rolls his eyes when you shrug. "Really, I know you elves don't know much about the outside world, but surely you must have a calendar! How do you know when holidays are, or when the seasons will change, or when to plant?"
"The Sages handle that sort of thing, and the Mages make sure there's always a good crop to harvest." You reply defensively. "And any fool can tell what the weather is, if they stick their head out the door."
"What does it matter? You're supposed to be telling us about the you-know-what."
"It matters." Eko replies curtly. "Maybe time isn't a concern to you elves, but if you're going to journey among humans then you should at least know what day it is."
"Fine, fine. What were you doing on the first of Felsite?"
"Checking the wards, the same as I do to start every month. This was five days ago. Besides the wards on the farms and the forest itself, there is a certain monument near the boundary of Aloclesno, perhaps half an hour's walk north of the forest itself. An hour or two beyond the Scarletdaub farm."
"A monument?" Omo asks with visible interest.
"Yes." Eko nods. "It marks the site of a battle from the Golgothan War; well, a skirmish, anyway. It's the furthest West the Golgothans advanced before being thrown back. Anyway, the important thing is that the monument is protected by a ward, but when I went to check, there was a zombie on the inside."
"And you didn't tell anyone?" Omo questions.
"Of course not!" Eko snaps. "The strength of the Empire is based on Order magic. If I told the villagers that that magic had failed, so close to Aloclesno... it would have caused a panic! That sort of thing would spread far beyond this little village. No, I needed to learn how the zombie had come to be there, so I could explain to the villagers and put their minds at ease. I checked that there were no other zombies nearby, and then captured it."
"How did you manage that?" You ask curiously.
Eko sighs. "Cikul Scarletdaub helped me. He... was a good friend of mine. A little strange, to make his home so far from the village, so close to the forest, but brave and intelligent. He used to talk with me about the history of Thrimesdur, or some point of dogma or philosophy he'd sunk his teeth into. More importantly, he was also... a free-thinker. Not as bound by tradition as most other villagers. When I explained what needed to be done, he helped me subdue the zombie and smuggle it into the village in his wagon." Eko's voice becomes heavy with bitterness. "Cikul trusted me, and now he's dead. He's dead, and his wife and sisters are dead, and his only surviving family are soulless orphans." He fumbles beneath his robes for his flask.
You cough into your hand delicately, breaking the awkward silence. "I still don't understand why you couldn't study the zombie openly. Why all the secrecy?"
Eko takes a pull on his flask, then begins striding toward the Temple. You hurry to keep up. "I told you, there's a system to follow. As far as the Empire is concerned, anything you can't learn by Divination isn't worth learning. We're supposed to put our trust in Order. Besides, if the villagers learned the Divinations hadn't helped it would be almost as bad as learning the wards had failed in the first place."
"You say you're supposed to put your trust in Order. But... you don't?"
Eko gives you a sidelong glance, lowering his voice as a villager passes by. "That's the kind of talk you should keep to yourself. Especially around our new visitors." He adds meaningfully, nodding toward the Temple.
You look ahead to the Temple. Evidently, in the short time you've been gone a troop of soldiers has arrived in Bedscaled. A couple dozen cavalrymen are pitching their tents on the village green. A line of horses is tethered parallel to a side street, a pair of banners flying at their head. The larger banner bears an image of the divided square symbol Eko wears, the quadrants a checkerboard of black and white. The smaller banner hanging below it bears three red keys on a field of black.
Several of the villagers passing by give the soldiers and the banners approving nods. The villagers who notice Eko coming give him a cool nod, if they acknowledge him at all. Eko scowls; after glancing at the soldiers on the green, he strides purposefully to the Temple door.
Before he reaches the steps, the door swings open, revealing a heavily armored officer with a plumed helmet tucked under one arm. His already impressive height is accentuated by standing at the top of the stairs. The wind tugs at his long brown hair, making it stream to one side. Sharp brown eyes gaze from behind an impressive beak of a nose as he examines the soldiers. His face twists into a sneer when he notices Eko standing below him.
"So, you are the priest who cannot cast a simple ward, yes? I am Bale Matchedstones the Murky Guises, Knight of Uzin the Umber Spine, Third Lieutenant tasked with the Second Cavalry of the Third Imperial Army. You will speak with me." Without another word, he spins and reenters the Temple.
Eko's face darkens angrily; you catch his sleeve as he climbs the stairs. "Who was that man, Eko?"
Eko visibly bites back his anger. "Uzin is our god of war-making and vengeance, among other things. Ever since the Golgothan War, one of the responsibilities borne by Knights of Uzin is the destruction of Necromancers. It seems the Empire does not trust me to handle the situation; he is a specialist, and he outranks me." Eko pulls away from you, then pauses, his voice quiet and gentle. "Tell him nothing about the basement. He would kill me for treason, and I couldn't say he was wrong to do so. But he may also harm you two, however inadvertent your involvement may have been, and that would be an injustice." Squaring his shoulders, Eko grimly enters the Temple.
You stand back, regarding the Temple door, thinking what to do now. This Bale Matchedstones person seems dangerous, but he has no reason to suspect you, and it could be useful to know what abilities the Necromancer Hunters of Thrimesdur have at their disposal. You chew over Eko's story; if you have further questions for him, you can probably ask after he finishes meeting with Bale. You also consider your tentative plan to investigate Aloclesno, combing over Eko's words for anything that might change your plans. Your plans had been to make any excursion tomorrow morning, but if you want to dodge Bale entirely you could leave now, though it would be sunset by the time you reach the forest.
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Author's Note (click to show/hide)
Post by: Grek on June 15, 2013, 02:41:26 pm
Post by: Chink on June 15, 2013, 02:47:27 pm
Post by: Grek on June 15, 2013, 02:55:43 pm
Post by: kahn1234 on June 15, 2013, 03:05:58 pm
it also seems that whatever is weakening Order magic is also 'creating' necromancers. We dont know why or how. it might have something to do with that goddess/god thing that can shape-shift we met several updates ago.
So many questions, so few answers.
Also, i dont think we should go back to forest until we have mastered our necromantic powers more. we have no idea what we are up against, and we have no idea:
a) whether the childrens souls can be recovered
b) how to contain recovered souls
c) what exactly the thing is that stole the souls
d) how it stole the souls in the first place
e) how to repair soul-damage.
f) How to see and, more importantly, fight whatever it is that inhabits the forest.
We have no chance to helping the children until we at least have some basic knowledge on these points.
Post by: Grek on June 15, 2013, 03:12:54 pm
a) whether the childrens souls can be recoveredIncorrect!
b) how to contain recovered souls
c) what exactly the thing is that stole the souls
d) how it stole the souls in the first place
e) how to repair soul-damage.
f) How to see and, more importantly, fight whatever it is that inhabits the forest.
a) We don't know if we'll succeed, but we should try anyway.
b) Once we find the soul, moving them around should be as easy as moving vitality around.
c) It's a necromantic construct created at the end of the last war.
d) It stole their souls with necromancy.
e) Living things heal themselves. We shouldn't have to repair soul damage, if any is present.
f) We can see it using our necromantic vision and can attack it using Steal Vitality. Our Steal Vitality spell is strong enough to destroy it in one shot.
Post by: kahn1234 on June 15, 2013, 03:32:54 pm
I actually just thought. we could try taking control of it.......
Post by: Felius on June 15, 2013, 04:43:01 pm
a) Because apparently we are a storybook hero.a) whether the childrens souls can be recoveredIncorrect!
b) how to contain recovered souls
c) what exactly the thing is that stole the souls
d) how it stole the souls in the first place
e) how to repair soul-damage.
f) How to see and, more importantly, fight whatever it is that inhabits the forest.
a) We don't know if we'll succeed, but we should try anyway.
b) Once we find the soul, moving them around should be as easy as moving vitality around.
c) It's a necromantic construct created at the end of the last war.
d) It stole their souls with necromancy.
e) Living things heal themselves. We shouldn't have to repair soul damage, if any is present.
f) We can see it using our necromantic vision and can attack it using Steal Vitality. Our Steal Vitality spell is strong enough to destroy it in one shot.
b) We don't know that. In fact we never dealt with souls before. It might not even be possible at our current power level
c) We don't know that.
d) While that is probably true, it's far too general to be particularly useful.
e) We don't know if souls heal similarly to living organic tissue. It might not. It might need assistance to do so, at least do it correctly. And sure, it might just get fine on its own. But yet, we don't know.
f) Assuming it's a single beast. And that our drain vitality work perfectly. And that it doesn't manage to close in without giving us a clear line of fire in the heavy forest.
Post by: Parisbre56 on June 15, 2013, 05:27:01 pm
A.Try to spy on the meeting. That way we can learn a few things about what's happening in the world. If Eko is in trouble, we can help him withaa zombie distraction.
A1.Ask the zombie hunters for info on how they do their job, how often do necromancers appear, etc.
This has the problem that we may be detected, but I doubt it will happen
B. Go to that shrine and investigate. If the zombie was there, it might have been there for a reason.
B1. If everything is clear once there, perform a few experiments.
Not much problems here, but not much to gain either.
C. Go into the forest and explore the clearing we found the children.
C1.Confront and examine the creature if we come upon it.
I'm a bit torn between A and C... In the end I think I'll have to go with A, since I think we should learn anything we can from Eko before continuing into the forest. And given how... open-minded Eko seems compared to other Order priests and the personal responsibility he feels for the children I think we can get him to aid us or even accompany us into the forest. Not to mention that if he is prosecuted and we help him escape we gain an extra companion with lots of knowledge, knowledge we'll need to survive in the empire.
And considering the great necromancer war was ended by a merry band of adventurers, I conclude that we are in a story. Which reminds me, we should learn more about them.
And I think the necromancer god might be messing with the others. Maybe we should try praying?
Post by: RAM on June 15, 2013, 07:41:55 pm
As for the forest, I am all for trying out some experiments, we can enter the forest safely enough, so long as we don't go too far into it. The forest seems to be containing the entities, so controlling one and taking it out of the forest might end up releasing it, or destroying it by severing it from its source... But if we can control one, and examine its energy flows in detail, we may be able to figure out how it manipulates souls. It would also be very useful to know if a single steal vitality can destroy one, because we may end up being stuck between the forest and something worse...
As for the soldiers, we could watch them, they are likely to notice elves if we don't hide it, and the villagers will likely mention elves so... We could claim to be investigating the undead threat on behalf of the Life nation... Present ourselves as a scholar and an escort. If they discover that we possess magic, then claim that we were hiding the fact so as to avoid drawing attention to ourselves, as strange people are a curiosity, but strange magic is a resource and will attract more dedicated attention. If they can sense necromancy on us, then suggest that it might have come from the children that we rescued. If they seem to know that we are a necromancer, which would pretty much be a game-ending power at this point, then we deny it until we find someone with more curiosity than righteousness...
P.S.
I support remaining in town for another day. Running would look suspicious.
Post by: Harbingerjm on June 15, 2013, 08:07:03 pm
B. Go to that shrine and investigate. If the zombie was there, it might have been there for a reason.Not a good idea. Even if we perform our experiments well away from the wards, the knights may well be investigating the locations Eko has warded.
B1. If everything is clear once there, perform a few experiments.
Not much problems here, but not much to gain either.
And I think the necromancer god might be messing with the others. Maybe we should try praying?To who?
We should hold back the excursion to the forest until tomorrow, and continue discussing with Eko after he is done with Bale. In the meantime, we should investigate the origins and history of the knights.Agreed.
After all, our cover is as a wannabe-historian, bringing knowledge of the outside world to our people, and surely an order of brave knights such as these, who devote their lives to fighting the threat that destroyed and corrupted our homeland, deserve our respect, gratitude and remembrance!
Post by: Parisbre56 on June 15, 2013, 08:47:20 pm
And I think the necromancer god might be messing with the others. Maybe we should try praying?To who?
[/quote]
I dunno. That was a (admittedly not so obvious) joke. Although if Order has multiple gods, maybe necromancy also has multiple gods. Perhaps there is a "good" Necromancy god we can pray to.
Post by: Harbingerjm on June 15, 2013, 09:31:14 pm
Joke or not, it might not be a bad idea, if we can find an appropriate god. Perhaps we should make a note to see if we come across any references to Elven gods when we search these famous libraries of Order.I dunno. That was a (admittedly not so obvious) joke. Although if Order has multiple gods, maybe necromancy also has multiple gods. Perhaps there is a "good" Necromancy god we can pray to.And I think the necromancer god might be messing with the others. Maybe we should try praying?To who?
Post by: monk12 on June 15, 2013, 10:07:55 pm
We should hold back the excursion to the forest until tomorrow, and continue discussing with Eko after he is done with Bale. In the meantime, we should investigate the origins and history of the knights.
Note: If you want to ask either Eko or Bale questions, please supply something to ask. I think I ran through all the existing "what's the deal with the basement zombie" questions that had already been mentioned in the thread, so if you want more information you'll have to let me know what you want to ask. I think the only question I wasn't able to work into that thread was the apparent discrepancy between what Pevo said and what Eko said; anything else, speak up!
Post by: Harbingerjm on June 15, 2013, 10:20:01 pm
Check with Eko how well the knights can detect necromancy, first. Preferably hide it as concern about the basement-zombie/curiosity as to whether they can tell what's wrong with the children/curiosity as to the possibility of detecting necromancers before they I AM KING OF DEATH, FEAR MY ZOMBIE ARMIES/whatever. We might be able to spin it as wanting some kind of method of ensuring that a necromancer can't sneak into Elven land posing as a merchant, raise a bunch of stuff (zombie bears god why!), and laugh as the smaller Elven population struggles to deal with it.We should hold back the excursion to the forest until tomorrow, and continue discussing with Eko after he is done with Bale. In the meantime, we should investigate the origins and history of the knights.
Note: If you want to ask either Eko or Bale questions, please supply something to ask. I think I ran through all the existing "what's the deal with the basement zombie" questions that had already been mentioned in the thread, so if you want more information you'll have to let me know what you want to ask. I think the only question I wasn't able to work into that thread was the apparent discrepancy between what Pevo said and what Eko said; anything else, speak up!
Also, I'm curious as to how exactly they know that the problem the forest thing causes is missing souls.
Aside from that, yeah, stuff like their history, tactics, etc. Possible play to that whole "brave heroic defender of Elven refugees" thing the humans have going on, along with the "isolated backwater hicks in awe of magnificent civilisation" reputation Omo has presumably earned our kind by now.
Post by: RAM on June 15, 2013, 10:26:19 pm
P.S.
Missing souls is the story peddled by the locals.
Also we looked at the life-energy of the victims, and it did seem lethargic...
Post by: Felius on June 15, 2013, 10:27:59 pm
Bale is the knight, right? I suppose we could ask him for some tips on killing undeads as well.
And for the Ninja: Yeah, I'll have to agree with Harbingerjm's questions for the most part. They are delicate questions, so we should spin a good reason for it, but I'm against the "refugee" thing. Our cover story was that we are a historian and researcher, interested in the necromancy, specially how to fight it, to search for ways to protect the elven lands, or something like that. I digress, but the point is that we should keep our cover story consistent.
And for the other ninja: Assuming Eko doesn't tell us that they can smell necromancy or something like that, I also support RAM's ideas.
Post by: Harbingerjm on June 15, 2013, 10:36:20 pm
Missing souls is the story peddled by the locals.I'm aware of that, but given they're a nation with a fair number of wizards, and given they say they've had in people from other wizard nations, I'm curious as to how exactly they came to that conclusion. Also, it would probably be helpful, both for our cover and possibly for our magic, to learn more of the tenets of other magic schools.
Also we looked at the life-energy of the victims, and it did seem lethargic...
And for the Ninja: Yeah, I'll have to agree with Harbingerjm's questions for the most part. They are delicate questions, so we should spin a good reason for it, but I'm against the "refugee" thing. Our cover story was that we are a historian and researcher, interested in the necromancy, specially how to fight it, to search for ways to protect the elven lands, or something like that. I digress, but the point is that we should keep our cover story consistent.Eh? I'm not saying we pretend to be refugees, I'm saying that they seem to have a big important chunk of their history based around how great they are for protecting the Elven survivors of the last great Necromancy war, so they'll presumably be fairly interested in helping the Elves (re)acquire history from that time + knowledge and experience on how to deal with undead.
Post by: Felius on June 15, 2013, 10:50:04 pm
Eh? I'm not saying we pretend to be refugees, I'm saying that they seem to have a big important chunk of their history based around how great they are for protecting the Elven survivors of the last great Necromancy war, so they'll presumably be fairly interested in helping the Elves (re)acquire history from that time + knowledge and experience on how to deal with undead.Fair enough, although I get the feeling that these knights are not really interested in helping elves for the sake of helping, nor really interested in history. Of course, the knowledge and experience on how to deal with undead on the other hand... :P
Post by: Harbingerjm on June 15, 2013, 10:58:15 pm
Eh, I figure given that that war was apparently a pretty damn important milestone for their Order (given their current purpose is based around refighting it), and that the elves were a pretty damn important part of it... Well.Eh? I'm not saying we pretend to be refugees, I'm saying that they seem to have a big important chunk of their history based around how great they are for protecting the Elven survivors of the last great Necromancy war, so they'll presumably be fairly interested in helping the Elves (re)acquire history from that time + knowledge and experience on how to deal with undead.Fair enough, although I get the feeling that these knights are not really interested in helping elves for the sake of helping, nor really interested in history. Of course, the knowledge and experience on how to deal with undead on the other hand... :P
We're not really getting them to help the elves for the sake of helping the elves, just subtly playing to the fact that their ancestors did so and got shitloads of glory (and presumably some sort of warm fuzzy feeling, though that's irrelevant) out of it, so going over their knowledge with elves now should have plenty of benefits for them, especially if that knowledge proves useful in this war.
Plus, of course, the problem with fighting Necromancers is that every country around has to be able to fight them as well, otherwise they're just free recruits, and presumably these knights are well aware of that.
Post by: Parisbre56 on June 16, 2013, 06:32:44 am
And I think we should try to eavesdrop on the meeting. Shouldn't be too hard since I predict a fair amount of yelling.
Post by: RAM on June 16, 2013, 06:54:16 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on June 16, 2013, 09:37:09 am
I forget, have we been hiding our elfishness? If so, then continueto do so...Yeah, that's why we got that
So, questions for the people in and around the temple:
Bale and friends:
- Try to eavesdrop on the meeting of Bale and Eko.
- What's going on around the world? What's the latest gossip? I bet the humans will be just as interested in that so that should be easy.
- Have the humans requested help from the elves and the dwarves?
- Is the human king preparing for war or at least for the defense of the capital?
- Where are the necromancers? Any indication for their plans? What are they doing?
- Has the necromancer changed focus? Fale knows we're elves, so Nightroar might have been ordered to advance west instead of east. That might explain the recent ward bypasses. If the zombies were controlled by Nightroar himself (or one of his lackeys if he has any) they could have been ordered to go through the wards.
- Info about their methods. Again, it seems like a lot of humans think they're awesome, so we can play the awestruck traveler (or teen. Elves look young, right?) that wants to learn more and be like them one day.
- How do they fight zombies and necromancers?
- Can they detect zombies and necromancers?
- What is their order doing about the current situation?
- What does their order think about the current situation? Is this strange? Is this life threatening?
- What's going to happen to poor Eko? He gave us poor travelers some shelter and he seems like a nice guy so we're kind of concerned for him.
- What was the meeting all about? What did the guy say?
- Anything he knows about the forest creature and the curse:
- What mages have examined the curse and what have they said about it? Does he know any details about the soul and what it is?
- We've read in our magic book that Fire mages can cast spells that affect the soul. Have they been consulted? Does he have any specifics about what that soul affecting fire magic might be or do?
- Ask if a soul can be destroyed or lost.
- Say that we've heard stories about ghosts and spirits. Are those things real? Are they disembodied souls? We've heard from a life mage friend that those things were made from pure vitality. Is such thing possible?
- Has anyone ever seen the creature in the forest? Has anybody ever tried to fight it? Has he ever tried to search the forest for zombies with his divinations? How far do those divinations work? If there was something necromantic in the forest but it wasn't a zombie, would the spell still detect it?
- Anything other he lied to us about. He lied about the zombie, he might have hidden other stuff from us. Tell him we need to know everything if we're going to be of assistance.
- Anything he learnt from the zombie. Could he learn anything or did his divinations completely fail him?
- This is more of a "prepare his mind just in case we are forced to reveal we're a necromancer"/"gauge how he would possibly treat us if he knew who we really were" kind of question. He said he talked about philosophy with his friend, so why not talk a bit about philosophy/ethics/what's right or wrong with him. He said that he didn't follow procedure. Does he believe that the higher ups are wrong and that Order may not be the only way to learn about or fight the enemy? Does he have doubts about his role as a priest? Does he believe there's more he could do if he wasn't restricted by the rules of the priests? Would he be willing to cooperate with people from any magical faith if it was going to give him victory and the ability to help the other humans? Generally some probing questions and try telling him that he did the right thing by experimenting with the zombie.
- About the gods. Order has multiple gods. Does he know anything about gods from other magical schools like water and earth? If other schools have gods what about life, our civilization's proffered school? (Elves do not have gods as far as I remember. They have spirits or something like that I think.) What about death? (The death question is asked in the end so that it doesn't arouse suspicion but merely sounds like a logical conclusion to a talk about gods of other magical schools.)
- As an extension to the above question, we could ask whether or not gods actively participate in the events of the world and perform miracles and if yes, whether or not a death god could be weakening order magic and causing their wards to fail.
- Can he tell us more about Order gods? They seem like something any human of the empire would know about, so we should at least know the names and what they are gods of (war, peace, law, etc.).
- Life magic has three schools. Does order also has three schools? What are they? (I suspect something like divination/warding/??) Does he know about any of the schools of the other faiths? Does he know if necromancy also has three schools?
- Details about how the great necromancer war ended. How was Balkoth vanquished? Did he have a weakness or was it just a matter of luck and cooperation?
That's all I can think of right now. Any suggestions or objections?
Post by: syvarris on June 16, 2013, 10:43:14 am
Quote from: Parisbre56
Bale and friends:That's everything I can think of.
What's going on around the world? What's the latest gossip? I bet the humans will be just as interested in that so that should be easy. Probably shouldn't ask Bale this, he's an important guy who probably doesn't want to waste time with gossip.
Have the humans requested help from the elves and the dwarves?
Is the human king preparing for war or at least for the defense of the capital?
Where are the necromancers? Any indication for their plans?
What are they doing?Has the necromancer changed focus? Fale knows we're elves, so Nightroar might have been ordered to advance west instead of east. That might explain the recent ward bypasses. If the zombies were controlled by Nightroar himself (or one of his lackeys if he has any) they could have been ordered to go through the wards.Info about their methods. Again, it seems like a lot of humans think they're awesome, so we can play the awestruck traveler (or teen. Elves look young, right?) that wants to learn more and be like them one day.
How do they fight zombies and necromancers?
Can they detect zombies and necromancers?
What's going to happen to poor Eko? He gave us poor travelers some shelter and he seems like a nice guy so we're kind of concerned for him.
Eko:
Anything he knows about the forest creature and the curse:What mages have examined the curse and what have they said about it? Does he know any details about the soul and what it is?
We've read in our magic book that Fire mages can cast spells that affect the soul. Have they been consulted? Does he have any specifics about what that soul affecting fire magic might be or do?
Ask if a soul can be destroyed or lost.
Say that we've heard stories about ghosts and spirits. Are those things real? Are they disembodied souls?
We've heard from a life mage friend that those things were made from pure vitality. Is such thing possible?
Has anyone ever seen the creature in the forest? Has anybody ever tried to fight it?
Has he ever tried to search the forest for zombies with his divinations?
Anything other he lied to us about. He lied about the zombie, he might have hidden other stuff from us. Tell him we need to know everything if we're going to be of assistance.Anything he learnt from the zombie. Could he learn anything or did his divinations completely fail him?
This is more of a "prepare his mind just in case we are forced to reveal we're a necromancer"/"gauge how he would possibly treat us if he knew who we really were" kind of question. He said he talked about philosophy with his friend, so why not talk a bit about philosophy/ethics/what's right or wrong with him. He said that he didn't follow procedure. Does he believe that the higher ups are wrong and that Order may not be the only way to learn about or fight the enemy? Does he have doubts about his role as a priest? Does he believe there's more he could do if he wasn't restricted by the rules of the priests? Would he be willing to cooperate with people from any magical faith if it was going to give him victory and the ability to help the other humans? Generally some probing questions.This stuff seems safe, as long as we make sure not to say anything that sounds like necromancer-sympathy.
About the gods. Order has multiple gods. Does he know anything about gods from other magical schools like water and earth? If other schools have gods what about life, our civilization's proffered school? (Elves do not have gods as far as I remember. They have spirits or something like that I think.) What about death? (The death question is asked in the end so that it doesn't arouse suspicion but merely sounds like a logical conclusion to a talk about gods of other magical schools.)
As an extension to the above question, we could ask whether or not gods actively participate in the events of the world and perform miracles and if yes, whether or not a death god could be weakening order magic and causing their wards to fail.Can he tell us more about Order gods? They seem like something any human of the empire would know about, so we should at least know the names and what they are gods of (war, peace, law, etc.).
Life magic has three schools. Does order also has three schools? What are they? (I suspect something like divination/warding/??) Does he know about any of the schools of the other faiths? Does he know if necromancy also has three schools? He almost certainly wouldn't know, and there is little need for us to know unless we're a necromancer.
Details about how the great necromancer war ended. How was Balkoth vanquished? Did he have a weakness or was it just a matter of luck and cooperation?
That's all I can think of right now. Any suggestions or objections?
Post by: Harbingerjm on June 18, 2013, 02:17:11 am
I forget, have we been hiding our elfishness? If so, then continueto do so...
We have, but Eko at least noticed it, said he would have picked it right off if he hadn't been so distracted, and, frankly, we're far too ignorant to easily pass as humans, at least of this kingdom. See: Souls, calender, etc. We may have to pretend to be from the Jewelled Coast, but if anyone knows anything about there (and they likely will, given the apparent love Order types have for knowledge) we'd be quite easily unmasked, as it were.
Post by: RAM on June 18, 2013, 02:58:18 am
Meta:
Chaos, Death, Life, Order.
Nat:
Air, Earth, Fire, Water.
They are also divide up into good and Evil.
Evil:
Chaos, Death, Earth, Fire.
Good:
Air, Life, Order, Water.
Elements generally have their own terrain:
Air: Mountain
Chaos: umm, also mountain? Air probably has more snow...
Death: Swamp
Earth: exposed dirt I think.
Fire: ash and lava
Life: Green fields if I recall.
Order: also green fields, but less green, probably farmland and such
Water: Well, water... Also maybe sand? did earth or fire like desert?
Each element was also associated with a species or two...
Air: Fairies and Giants
Chaos: Humans and animals
Death: Possibly humans or elves, they wore a lot of covering armour, also undead.
Earth: Dwarves and magically animated constructions
Fire: giants and humans
Life: elves and supernatural animals
Order: Humans and a very small number of highly respected undead, things like "Arthur shall return to Camelot in its time of need" even though everyone saw Arthur die...
Water: Amazons and, umm, did they have lizardfolk?
Magical themes also exist.
Air: ummmm... dunno
Chaos: Possibly area effects.
Death: Curses and undead mostly.
Earth: Probably protection and terrain.
Fire: Massive obscene damage, often with fine print...
Life: Typically healing
Order: Buff spells
Water: forget...
Elements also had oppositions:
Air <-> Earth
Chaos <-> Order
Death <-> Life
Fire <-> Water
Post by: monk12 on June 18, 2013, 03:38:58 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Just because I really liked Lords of Magic, I'll elaborate that Air had Snow instead of Mountain (though they didn't slow down in Mountain,) Life and Water had Meadows instead of Plains (and were slowed by Sand, annoying for Water since that's what all the beaches were,) I think Death was dark elves and humans, Water did indeed have mainly lizardfolk armies, Air used a lot of travel and scrying magic (along with sweet Lightning powers,) Chaos magic was lolrandom (some sweet polymorph abilities though,) and Water had a little bit of everything (with a splash of "fuck fire" specialties.) Death had good damage dealing abilities, curses (including that one nasty infectious stat rot thing) and of course, the ability to raise skeletons/zombies/shades which could snowball quickly (including one notable scenario where that was your only way to raise an army while murdering scattered Elven militia.)
Having said that, I will note that while I did take the Element Wheel and some aesthetics from that game, the good/evil mechanic specifically and magic spells in general didn't carry over to this game. This game arose out of putting some deeper thought into how the mechanics of magic might work for each faith, which lead to some significant deviations from how they worked in Lords of Magic. Originally, this game was going to offer a choice between playing as a Necromancer, Chaos Shaman, or Water Mage, but the other inspirations I mentioned in the OP led to worldbuilding, which in turn made the Necromancer the most interesting story for me to write.
As long as I'm rambling about inspirations, Erfworld was what made me start thinking about how Necromancy would work, mechanically, since the PoV character at the time was a Necromancer who spent a fair amount of time musing about her trade. I arrived at different conclusions, but that's what got the ball rolling. DF mostly inspired me in the same general way it inspires everything I do, and is a ready source for randomly generated names and the like; DF has inspired me in some specific ways with this game, but we're not there yet, and it's not anything you'd see in DF directly anyway.
Post by: monk12 on July 05, 2013, 05:59:40 pm
We should hold back the excursion to the forest until tomorrow, and continue discussing with Eko after he is done with Bale. In the meantime, we should investigate the origins and history of the knights.
I think we shouldn't reveal that we are elves. Maybe only tell Bale or not even him. People (and soldiers especially) talk. If rumors start to spread about two elves wandering human lands far from the main roads and capital (somewhere elven representatives would be expected to go first) how long do you think it will be before the other necromancer puts two and two together and follows those rumors to us? Or even worse, what happens if the elves have already sent representatives and we get revealed as impostors? Or maybe they have told the humans about us. Or maybe the elves will hear about this and try to follow us. So lots of things that can go wrong. It's not like we have to tell them we're elves to gain the info we want.
And I think we should try to eavesdrop on the meeting. Shouldn't be too hard since I predict a fair amount of yelling.
Spoiler: ALL THE QUESTIONS (click to show/hide)
You dither at the base of the Temple steps, debating whether to go inside. On the one hand, Bale Matchedstones certainly possesses knowledge that could be useful to you, and you're interested in the techniques of Necromancer-Hunters. On the other hand, he is a hunter of Necromancers, and you are a Necromancer yourself. There is undeniably an element of risk involved with associating with the Knight. Besides, he doesn't seem like a very friendly individual; hopefully Eko will tell you everything you need to know.
Moving down the street a ways, you spend some time watching the soldiers make camp. The tents are arrayed in neat rows, and it seems each tent holds three or four soldiers; it is hard to get good count, as they scurry around the village green like overambitious ants. Each tent is quickly accompanied by a small campfire, as well as a standing circle of steel-tipped lances and swords in oiled scabbards, close at hand in case of sudden attack. As soon as fires are lit, the soldiers begin fetching water and pulling rations out of their packs, preparing an evening meal. More than one village goodwife wanders over with baskets of bread or vegetables, which the soldiers receive with fervent thanks.
You watch with interest as several soldiers erect a much larger tent in the middle of the formation. You would have thought Bale would stay in the Temple, or some house with a free bed, but it appears he means to bed down with his men. No sooner are the banners transferred to a tall pole just outside that tent than Bale himself emerges from the Temple, striding into his tent with no acknowledgement of either the goodwives or his soldiers, though both groups give respectful nods and salutes.
Stepping quickly, you return to the Temple. The children lie as you last saw them, unmoved in their cots. The other cots have been dragged around Ado Drunkenstumbles, and a small gaggle of men, women, and children surround him, talking animatedly. It appears they are friends or family come to visit the dour man. Ado very nearly smiles at the youngest child as she tugs on her mother's skirt. You quietly slip past the reunion, and find Eko vigorously stirring a pot in the kitchen. He looks up as you enter, a glower fading from his face.
"Ah, there you are. Ado's kin brought some chicken stew." Rummaging through one of the cabinets, Eko pulls out some bowls and spoons and begins filling them. "It's quite good, much better than what we ate yesterday. Dana is an excellent cook."
You thank Eko as you accept one of the bowls and a piece of bread, sitting at the table to eat. "So, what's the news? How goes the war?"
"Did you get fired?" Omo asks bluntly, sitting down on the other side of the table with his own bowl.
Eko snorts as he settles into the armchair by the fire, resting a bowl of stew on his knee. "It is not Bale's place to relieve me of my duties as priest, but his presence does mean he takes precedence in all matters related to the undead attacks. His men will help fortify the village defenses tonight, and tomorrow he will begin scouting for any undead forces in the area. As far as the war effort goes, little has happened. The Necromancer has not been sighted on either the Eastern or Western fronts, though sporadic attacks continue to emerge from the lands he controls. We're prepared now, and the raids don't accomplish much. He's just throwing away bodies."
"How do you know what's going on on the other side of his army?" Omo asks around a mouthful of stew. He's already halfway through the bowl!
"Communication between Wizards is a simple matter. The Emperor's will is known throughout Thrimesdur as soon as he makes it known; it could hardly be otherwise."
"And what is the Emperor's will?" You ask quietly. "Are there any plans to attack Curo Nightroar? What about the Necromancer on the Jeweled Coast? Has the Empire asked for aid from the elves, or the dwarves?"
Eko shakes his head. "Things like that are not for a common country priest to know. I expect that campaigning will begin in earnest now that spring is well and truly here, and armies have had a chance to marshal. Supposedly there's quite a large army at Atkilpeme, the capital. The dwarves are nearly as reclusive as the elves, but with a threat of this magnitude I wouldn't be surprised if the diplomats have been working on some sort of agreement. I don't know that, I'm just guessing. I expect you could tell me more of the elves than I know." He says, giving you a meaningful glance.
"When we left Yicelafo they were preparing for a defensive war, in case you lot were defeated." Omo replies, idly scraping his bread through a mostly empty bowl. "It sounded like we were going to send an envoy of some kind, but I don't know what they were supposed to say, or offer." Omo perks up happily as Eko serves him another ladleful of the hearty stew; it really is quite good.
"Eko," You ask slowly, "I've been thinking. Exactly what magical faiths have examined the victims of Aloclesno?"
Eko runs a hand through his thinning hair. "Well, Order Wizards were the first, obviously, but all they could do was identify the root problem. Not long after the Golgothan War there was another child who wandered into the forest, and was recovered comatose. He was taken to the Elves in Yicelafo; they could do nothing more for him, I'm afraid, and his body lived on for years. It was after that incident that the policy of allowing the victims to die after a month was enacted."
You wave your spoon at Eko. "That's one of the things I was wondering; I distinctly recall one of the Sages saying that any undead creature made during the Golgothan War couldn't possibly last this long."
Eko shrugs. "This did happen only a few years after the Golgothan War, before the magnitude of the curse was well known. Perhaps they did not check up on the state of the curse. I will also say that the nature of the curse is still something of a mystery, and was even more unknown back then. The idea that the curse is some kind of Necromantic creature is still somewhat controversial, as no reliable witness has ever encountered it."
"No reliable witness?"
"Yes. There are more than a few accounts from frightened soldiers in Girus's army, but none of them agree other than mention of a zombie's fiery purple eyes, an easy fabrication for any soldier with experience fighting the undead. There are also many accounts by simple villagers and farmers that mention the eyes, a detail they are less likely to invent; however, there are also many more accounts that describe red or yellow eyes instead, and the size of the creature ranges from a large wolf to a cave bear. No priests, Wizards, officers or public officials of any kind have reported anything that would indicate a physical creature. Did you see anything while you were in the forest?"
You slowly take a bite of stew, pondering your reply. "Nothing definite, no. I got the sense there was a creature there, but I didn't see it clearly."
"Interesting." Eko cleans his bowl with his bread, sighing happily. "I've always favored the Monster theory, myself. The accounts that mention purple eyes all match one another reasonably closely. The other stories are no doubt fakes or exaggerations."
"You mentioned possessing spells that can detect the undead at a distance. Has anyone ever tried scrying on the forest?" You ask.
Eko nods. "Yes, several times. Nothing has ever been found, though at one time or another the entire forest has been subject to divinations. It's the biggest knock against that theory. There have been discussions about attempting to scry on the entire forest at once, to finally settle the question, but it would take a great number of Wizards to accomplish, and many of them would need to be of higher ability than your average priest. Nobody considers it worth the effort, as simple precautions have proven effective."
"What about ghosts, or wraiths, or something like that? Those stories sound like they could be disembodied souls, to me. Could they be the monster of Aloclesno?"
Eko sets his bowl aside, frowning in thought. "It's an interesting idea. There's a wide variety of phantasms like that. Some of them are loose souls bent to an evil purpose, as you guessed, but many of them are just ethereal creatures. Most of those stories involve the spirit looking for a body to possess; I've never heard a story about a ghost destroying a soul but leaving the body intact and unharmed. They either destroy you, or they don't. This peculiar half-death is unique to Aloclesno."
"Is it something that Balkoth could have made?" You ask eagerly, moving to set your bowl on a cluttered countertop.
"I don't know." Eko replies slowly. "I believe so. I have not made an extensive study of the Golgothan War, but I think I read something about shades fighting for the Golgothans on the Eastern Front. From what I recall, they had no soul-stealing capabilities, but they were quite effective weapons until they were repulsed by the Wizards. It's difficult to know what Balkoth was capable of; he was the most accomplished Necromancer in the world, at the height of Golgotha's power."
"How was Balkoth defeated, anyway?" You ask as you pull your chair closer to the fire.
Eko grins wryly. "What, you don't know the story? I thought every elf would know."
"She should know, if she had paid attention as a child." Omo offers, making a dogged attempt to clean his second bowl of stew. "They told the story often enough."
"Well, the short version is that a group of fearsome warriors set out to kill Balkoth himself. They were a symbol of the unity of the Alliance, and the represented the best each member had to offer. Thrimesdur gave the services of a Knight of Uzin. The Earth Kingdom sent the King's Champion himself, a dwarf skilled in all manner of fighting. The most powerful Water Mystic of the Jeweled Coast lent her arcane spells, and was accompanied by her Lizardman bodyguard. A Pixie Lord from the mountain tribes gave his deadly skill with blade and rapier. One of the last living Life Masters was there as well; some say he was the most powerful left alive after the Sacred Grove was razed. There was even a Chaos Shaman there."
"So many?" You say, surprised. "I had thought it would be a smaller group."
Eko shrugs. "The alliance was large, and for a mission this audacious they turned away no one. I understand the full group didn't even make it to Balkoth himself; they had to sneak their way into territory held tightly by the Golgothans, to the Great Temple of Death itself, then fight their way past fanatical bodyguards before they could personally face the most powerful Necromancer in the world. They won, of course. Sorry, I'm not much of a storyteller." Omo snorts in the corner of the room.
"Why did they have to go to the Golgothan Great Temple?" You ask, confused. "Why not confront him in battle, while he was campaigning? Why didn't they force the fight someplace hostile to Balkoth, instead of the heart of his power?"
Eko grins wryly. "Eh, I don't recall. I know I have a book on the subject, though I don't remember if a reason is given. It's more of a story and less of a history, I'm afraid."
"I see." You lean back in your chair, gazing into the fire. "I'm sorry, I seem to have strayed quite far from my original question. You called on the Life Mages to try and heal the victims of Aloclesno. Who else? I've read that Fire magic is linked with the soul."
Eko nods. "I have also been taught that, but sadly Fire Invokers are rare, now that the Fire Giants are exterminated. I've heard some dwarves practice that Faith, but they've never examined a victim. Eko leans back, thinking. By chance an Earth Magician was near a victim about, oh, three hundred and fifty years ago; he agreed to examine the victim, but found nothing. Not surprising; Earth Magicians aren't very good at healing much beyond broken bones. Several Water Mystics have attempted to treat the victims, but also fell short of the task. That leaves what, Air? Not many of that Faith wandering Urak any more."
"What about a Chaos Shaman?" You ask curiously.
Eko snorts. "What about Chaos Shaman? They aren't welcome in Thrimesdur, and even if somebody took a victim to them, and they were willing to help, I doubt they have any special facility in matters of the soul."
You nod, sitting silently for a time, trying to think how to broach your next question. "Eko... did you learn anything? In the basement?"
Eko glowers at the fire, fishing his flask from beneath his robes. "Everything, and nothing. Every spell worked exactly as intended. My wards, my divinations... they worked perfectly. Oh, I couldn't detect its thoughts, but they're not supposed to have any; those spells failed as they should have. But for the rest... I have no idea how that zombie got past the wards."
The silence stretches while Eko drinks. You cast around for a change of subject. "So... Thrimesdur has two gods, then?"
Eko looks at you in surprise, tucking away his flask. "Far more than that. You elves worship only one?"
"Not even that many." Omo says, stretching in the corner. "We venerate the spirit of the Walled Jungle, but I wouldn't call it worship. Just respect for something larger than ourselves."
Eko shakes his head. "You are unlike what I expected. How can you be so ignorant? It has been a thousand years since the Golgothan War ended."
"A much shorter time for our people." You say defensively. "We don't like to travel much. The world is a dangerous place, and we are few."
"It does not take very long to visit a library." Eko says curtly. He sighs, raising his hands. "I meant no offense. Thrimesdur has four chief gods of Order, as well as a multitude of lesser deities and spirits who array themselves in one pantheon or another. Uzin the Umber Spine is the god of Springtime and planting, as well as luck, aggressive war, and righteous retribution. His worship is common among soldiers, and Uzin's Day is celebrated when Winter turns to Spring. Atal would be the principle god as patron of the Emperor, though Atal is not any more or less revered than the other major gods. He is typically associated with civilization and the sun, as well as protection, justice and Summer, and the Festival of Atal will be mark the beginning of Summer. Not that far off, now. Resmi Beachnights is the goddess of the Autumn and the harvest, as well as marriage, secrecy, and the hunt. The Feast of Resmi is celebrated at harvest time across the Empire. Finally, Shezpa the Lens of Scribing is the goddess of crafts and Winter, as well as knowledge, darkness, magic, and honesty. Winternight is celebrated in her honor at the solstice, a day for friends to enjoy what good they have in the heart of winter and a night for quiet contemplation."
"And there are even more gods below them? Do all faiths have so many?" You ask.
Eko shifts in his chair, settling into a more comfortable position. "Yes, yes. I would be awake all night and all day tomorrow trying to familiarize you with all of Thrimesdur's gods. I'm fuzzy on some of the more obscure deities myself. I haven't made a study of foreign religions, but I know that the cities on the Jeweled Coast worship a wide variety of gods from across the world. The Horse-Lords have their own barbaric spirits they pray to, and... well, I don't know much about the Dwarven gods. I have heard of Ral Nourishedblankets the Citadel of Towers, who must be their chief deity, but I know little else."
"So many gods in the world, and none for the elves." You say, amused.
"Oh, I'm sure there must be gods and spirits strongly associated with Life." Eko interjects quickly. "Perhaps they are weak for lack of worship, or perhaps they do not seek out worshippers, but they must be there. Every nation has a shepherd, whether you know them or not."
"And your shepherds keep you from learning about your ancient foe. The magic you rely on has failed." You reply solemnly.
"The magic has not failed; the wards held in the basement. The failing must be within me." Eko says stubbornly. "And the prohibition related to the capture of undead is based in dogma, not the direct word of any god."
"And you think this dogma is wrong." You say.
Eko visibly struggles with himself. "It isn't wrong... there is reason for it. It prevents temptation."
"Temptation?"
Eko runs a hand through his hair, grimacing. "To abandon Order. To discard the force that holds the Empire together. To step outside your purpose. Wizards cast spells. Armies send scouts. Both tasks have their place, and both tasks should be carried out by those most qualified to perform them. Stepping out of your role... if I wanted to cast spells and go adventuring, I should have signed up to be a Knight and received the proper training."
"And are you tempted to knighthood?" You ask softly.
Eko sighs, remaining silent. You watch the fire burn low together. Omo snores softly in the corner, face down on the table. Well, he starts out snoring softly, but soon begins to emit noises resembling those of some sort of wild beast.
"Wake up, Omo." You say, poking him in the head.
"Hm what?" He asks groggily. "Why?"
"It's time to go to sleep." You say, working out a kink in your back as you stand.
Omo groans. "I was asleep, you hateful woman."
"It's time to go to bed, then. We have a busy day tomorrow."
"We do? Doing what?"
It's a fair question. You had planned to begin a more thorough investigation of the forest, but you've received a lot of information to ponder. If that is your intention, then you should begin thinking how to spend your day tomorrow; to go straight into the forest, or to try something else on the outskirts first? How do you plan to attack this problem, if you still wish to tackle it?
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Author's Note (click to show/hide)
Post by: Felius on July 05, 2013, 06:58:55 pm
That said, if we must deal with the forest, let's do it right. Outskirts, or ideally some clearing. Try to lure whatever the beast is into the open, and kill it fast. Don't give it a chance.
On other points, damn, the order empire is certainly low on social mobility, huh?
Post by: Zako on July 05, 2013, 09:58:28 pm
Post by: syvarris on July 05, 2013, 10:09:45 pm
I still say we shouldn't mess with the forest at the moment.Agreed. Taking on an unknown spirit is just too risky- if the steal vitality spell doesn't kill it somehow, it'll probably take Omo, which would be terrible. Knowing what the thing is, and that it's resistant to necromancy isn't worth his life.
I think we should pay the necro-hunter people a visit, and ask them more questions. Dunno which ones, because I'm tired. Probably the rest of Paris'.
Then we should work on that frikken huge list of "planned" experiments. Probably several hours walk from the village, and with Omo making sure we aren't followed.
Oh, and before we sleep remember to cast sense vitality a bunch of times till we're down to 3 mana (for an emergency steal vitality, just in case).
Post by: Grek on July 05, 2013, 10:15:36 pm
Post by: Zako on July 05, 2013, 10:28:03 pm
Post by: Harbingerjm on July 06, 2013, 01:30:18 am
Well, keep in mind that we are a necromancer, which are basically feared across the known parts of the continent for what they are capable of,Slight fix.
Post by: Felius on July 06, 2013, 05:04:24 am
You are all wusses who have no sense of heroism and don't care about saving children.Not having this discussion again, so, yes, yes we are. I still hold that we should not play in that forest for now.
Post by: Chink on July 06, 2013, 11:25:14 am
Don't you mean See Vitality, instead of Sense Vitality? I'm pretty sure we only get experience from Necromancy spells, and Sense Vitality is a Life spell. I'm fine with everything else, though.I still say we shouldn't mess with the forest at the moment.Agreed. Taking on an unknown spirit is just too risky- if the steal vitality spell doesn't kill it somehow, it'll probably take Omo, which would be terrible. Knowing what the thing is, and that it's resistant to necromancy isn't worth his life.
I think we should pay the necro-hunter people a visit, and ask them more questions. Dunno which ones, because I'm tired. Probably the rest of Paris'.
Then we should work on that frikken huge list of "planned" experiments. Probably several hours walk from the village, and with Omo making sure we aren't followed.
Oh, and before we sleep remember to cast sense vitality a bunch of times till we're down to 3 mana (for an emergency steal vitality, just in case).
Post by: syvarris on July 06, 2013, 11:39:20 am
But I'm just being cautious here, it's unlikely to be an issue.
Post by: RAM on July 06, 2013, 08:34:46 pm
Post by: monk12 on July 06, 2013, 08:38:11 pm
No, I meant sense. What if those necro-hunters csn detect necromancy spells? I'd hate to have just spent almost all our mana with an entire camp of experienced soldiers bearing down on us. Anyways, will we even get xp for such a simple spell?
But I'm just being cautious here, it's unlikely to be an issue.
You'll get XP for See Vitality if you use it in a meaningful way. So, if you use it to examine something with Vitality (or something you really think should have Vitality) you'll get XP, but if you cast it and then look at nothing, or look at something you've already examined thoroughly, it won't be worth anything.
Carry on!
Post by: syvarris on July 06, 2013, 08:41:35 pm
I think that a foray into the edge of the forest has almost no risk, we can sense the thing coming after all. And there is no guarantee that the children are a loss. I support going into the edge of the forest, past the barrier, and waiting for a few hours or until something arrives, practising our escape route several times, and using control undead if they thing turns up...
Hmm. I'm fine with this, as long as we stay very close to the border. As in, just a few steps and we're out. And have see vitality active at all times.
As to the sense/see tonight, There's no point to casting see. We'll only get EP from examining Omo, and we can do that tomorrow when we cast it anyways.
Post by: Harbingerjm on July 06, 2013, 09:46:28 pm
I think that a foray into the edge of the forest has almost no risk, we can sense the thing coming after all. And there is no guarantee that the children are a loss. I support going into the edge of the forest, past the barrier, and waiting for a few hours or until something arrives, practising our escape route several times, and using control undead if they thing turns up...
Agreed. Also, Omo should wait just outside the edge, if we take him at all.
Post by: RAM on July 12, 2013, 05:46:09 am
Post by: Harbingerjm on July 12, 2013, 06:06:22 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on July 12, 2013, 08:32:27 am
Post by: syvarris on July 12, 2013, 09:13:20 am
At worst, we detect nothing odd except the vitality of the monster right behind us, and we die.
Plus, the trail we followed was really twisty and confusing, and could only have gotten worse. Even with Omo, I wouldn't be surprised if we couldn't find it again
I vote against going more than twenty feet from the wards. Too much risk for too little reward.
Post by: Parisbre56 on July 12, 2013, 09:28:29 am
And the entity can be handled. We can see it from far away, we can prepare and we can kill it with a single spell that only requires line of sight, if it comes down to it. No necromancer has ever tried to solve this problem before. That's why it's going to work. Because Balkoth would have no reason to protect that entity from his own magic. In fact he would have every reason to make sure it's vulnerable to necromancy.
Anyway, if we see the entity, I saw we try to control or talk to it first.
And there's a lot we can learn from analyzing the entity.
Post by: speedyth on July 12, 2013, 02:27:00 pm
Quote
You can't know what we'll learn. Only one person knows that.it would be highly unlikely that the necromantic entity would be able to communicate with us. however we should definitely learn as much as we can about it through our necro-sight and other powers.
And the entity can be handled. We can see it from far away, we can prepare and we can kill it with a single spell that only requires line of sight, if it comes down to it. No necromancer has ever tried to solve this problem before. That's why it's going to work. Because Balkoth would have no reason to protect that entity from his own magic. In fact he would have every reason to make sure it's vulnerable to necromancy.
Anyway, if we see the entity, I saw we try to control or talk to it first.
And there's a lot we can learn from analyzing the entity.
Post by: RAM on July 13, 2013, 05:38:08 am
Post by: Grek on July 13, 2013, 05:47:23 am
Post by: Cellmonk on August 13, 2013, 04:50:13 am
Topic shudders and begins to move!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: monk12 on August 13, 2013, 06:18:26 pm
I think that a foray into the edge of the forest has almost no risk, we can sense the thing coming after all. And there is no guarantee that the children are a loss. I support going into the edge of the forest, past the barrier, and waiting for a few hours or until something arrives, practising our escape route several times, and using control undead if they thing turns up...
Hmm. I'm fine with this, as long as we stay very close to the border. As in, just a few steps and we're out. And have see vitality active at all times.
As to the sense/see tonight, There's no point to casting see. We'll only get EP from examining Omo, and we can do that tomorrow when we cast it anyways.
Agreed. Also, Omo should wait just outside the edge, if we take him at all.
You think for a long moment, weighing the risks and rewards of your plan for tomorrow. After much inner debate, you nod decisively. "In the morning, we'll go back to the forest. I think there's a creature there, and I think we are uniquely suited to destroy it."
Omo nods sleepily, standing up from the table. Eko's eyes positively bulge out. "You're going to do what?"
Omo shrugs. "We'll destroy that whatever-it-is for you. Shouldn't be a big deal."
"Shouldn't... shouldn't be a big deal?" Eko splutters. "It's an ancient soul-destroying monstrosity! Nobody is sure it's even a physical creature, and you think you can kill it?"
"Has anyone ever tried before?" You ask, curious.
Eko puts a hand to his face, drawing a deep breath. "Several times, yes. Mostly villagers who couldn't accept the fate of their loved ones, and one priest who didn't find anything. That priest did well for himself, too, since most of the other fools who tried wound up dead!"
"A priest tried? What happened?" You ask, perking up. "Why didn't you mention this earlier? An eyewitness account would be very useful."
"He never saw any monster, though he did make it further into the forest than anyone since the Golgothan War." Eko says slowly, looking from you to Omo and back again. "You're serious, aren't you. You're going to try and kill the Curse of Aloclesno. Why? There's nothing to be done for the children; they're as good as dead. There's nothing for you to gain by doing this. The curse only afflicts those who step within Aloclesno. Why risk your lives?"
Omo frowns. "So we should do what, ignore it? Let some other fool kid walk in and die in a hundred years or so? Maybe that's a long time for you, but I intend to still be alive when that happens, and for the century after that, and the century after that. That's a lot of dead children in my lifetime that I could have saved."
"We'll be careful." You say simply. "We'll do things methodically, and if all goes well we'll have it taken care of before anything untoward happens. Of course, things are more likely to go well if we prepare carefully. Can you tell us what that adventurous priest did that kept him alive in the heart of Aloclesno?"
Eko gazes at you silently for a long moment, running a hand through his thin hair. "I... have a book on the subject. A Study of Aloclesno. Most of what I know comes from that book; I'll mark the relevant passage for you in the morning."
"You mean I can take it with me?" You ask, surprised.
Eko nods, standing up. "Good night. I'll see you tomorrow."
You sleep quite soundly, and wake shortly after dawn feeling refreshed and rejuvenated. Surprisingly, you find that Omo woke up before you; he's taken the bandage off of his arm, and smiles in satisfaction at how well the wound healed. It seems you are both fully recovered from your scuffle outside Aloclesno.
You step into Eko's living room for some breakfast, and stop, surprised. Eko is also awake, and dressed for traveling with a simple brown wool cloak and a backpack. In his left hand he holds a book, and in his right hand he holds a short spear with red and green tassels; you recognize it as the one you saw hanging in the basement.
Eko smiles happily. "Good morning! I've prepared some trail rations; I thought we should eat breakfast on the road in order to maximize daylight. I don't fancy fighting a soul-sucking monstrosity in the dark."
"We?" You ask cautiously. "We didn't ask you to come yourself. You have an important job to do for Bedscaled, maintaining the wards."
Eko scratches his head, suddenly seeming uncertain. "Well... the wards should be fine for days without my supervision. Weeks, even. Bale is in charge of hunting the zombies that attacked the other night, and he was quite clear he neither needed nor wanted my help finding them. He's also taken on organizing the defense of the village, so they don't need me for that. So, I could spend my time on administrative work preparing for a festival we may never have... or I could go to the forest with you."
"You seemed to think we were suicidal to even try." Omo says bluntly. "Now you want to join us?"
Eko sighs. "Nym... you asked whether I was tempted to knighthood last night. Well, maybe the life of a knight is beyond me, but I do think I made a mistake somewhere along the line, or my life wouldn't have lead me here. Maybe it's not too late to make the right choice."
You brush your hair back, thinking furiously. True, a trained Order Wizard might be able to help you in the forest, but your plan for dealing with the creature in the forest is largely based on your ability to control or destroy it with Necromancy. Should you refuse Eko? If so, what excuse can you give that will keep him from just following you?
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Author's Note (click to show/hide)
Post by: Angle on August 13, 2013, 06:26:26 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on August 13, 2013, 06:38:24 pm
Yay! Thanks to our
No to the mobile wards. Those things block our necrosight, remember? Better have him cast divinations and give advice. And the thing in the forest has vitality. Elves can sense vitality. We can just say we sensed it that way.
About necromancy.... It's hard to be mad at someone for being a necromancer when he has just saved your life from a monster by using necromancy.
Or if you're dead. But hopefully it won't come to that. He seems like a nice guy. I don't like killing nice guys.
Post by: RAM on August 13, 2013, 08:16:10 pm
Post by: Cellmonk on August 13, 2013, 10:01:56 pm
Well, I am all for taking Eko, but make sure that we have our supplies, we should be ready to set up a camp outside the forest, make it clear to Eko that we may spend days studying the forest. If Eko backs out at the prospect of days, then it is one less thing to worry about, and if Eko follows, and finds out about us, then we can continue our journey without needing to return to the village.
That's a good idea. We can test the water that way. He may be interested in becoming part of our band, in which case he would be an invaluable asset. I have a feeling if we gave it time, and showed him our intentions by killing the forest demon, he may well accept our necromancy as legitimate.
He seems a scientist, so the prospect of all the tests we could do together might override any fear that we are intent on growing an undead empire.
Post by: Felius on August 14, 2013, 12:04:58 am
But yeah, given our plans to use necromancy, we probably should bullshit some reason for him not to come. :P
Post by: RAM on August 14, 2013, 01:26:51 am
Post by: Cellmonk on August 14, 2013, 01:44:35 am
Post by: syvarris on August 14, 2013, 01:41:01 pm
While on the road, ask Eko if there's ever been groups of people attacked/killed by the monster. How safe are we together?
Have we told Eko we're a necromancer yet? I don't think so, but I'm not sure. If we have, then we should discuss our various planned experiments with him. Also, if we're setting up a camp, we should start working through those experiments.
If we haven't told him... well, don't do anything necro-y.
I doubt Eko will become a permanent teammate. After all, this is the empire of order- everyone has their place. Worse, he's an outright priest of order. Even if he's an unorthodox one, he probably doesn't want to permanently leave his post. Plus, he might get punished for going AWOL or something, depending on how much Thrimesdur micro-manages it's people.
If he were a dwarf in one of my forts, he'd get punished for something like that. And by punished I mean chained in a lavish room fit for a king, with only the very best food and booze.
Post by: Harbingerjm on August 14, 2013, 02:11:14 pm
I think we should take Eko with us, certainly. He's a valuable ally, both in power and knowledge.In terms of his ability to fight this monster, he's completely useless.
While on the road, ask Eko if there's ever been groups of people attacked/killed by the monster. How safe are we together?You mean, groups like the army it was created/summoned to destroy?
Have we told Eko we're a necromancer yet? I don't think so, but I'm not sure. If we have, then we should discuss our various planned experiments with him. Also, if we're setting up a camp, we should start working through those experiments.No, no we have not. Which is why I suggest telling him that since Order magic apparently does nothing to the creature and he is likely far less capable in forests than either Omo or us, he should stay behind.
If we haven't told him... well, don't do anything necro-y.
Post by: Angle on August 14, 2013, 02:29:56 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on August 14, 2013, 02:42:44 pm
The secret we reveal will not be the truth. But I think I have the person thing to say.
Say Eko can come with, but caution him that if he does so, he will become party to Elven secrets that may never be shared with anyone. Much as the dogmatic forces of Order have opposed his activities, activities which could have done real good, they would oppose what the elves have done. If he comes with you, he will learn much about dealing with the undead, perhaps things that will be useful to him, but he will be sworn to secrecy.
I get the feelings the promises of a priest of Order might be pretty strong. When we have moved away from the town and set up camp at the edge of the forest, we tell him a story...
Ask him what he thinks of historical Necromancers. Does he think all Necromancers have always been evil? The histories don't seem to agree with that. And there's an event that happened in the Elven lands that indicates otherwise, but also provides valuable information on the current threat - it would not be accepted by the outside world, but you will share this secret with him knowing he will keep it safe, this story.
The elves are not strangers to the recent spate of Necromancers. In fact, once, long ago, there was a Necromancer that arose even among the elves. This is a story about that elf. None outside the Elven lands have heard of this, and even many within are none the wiser, but despite feeling the call of Necromancy this elf was no madman intent on power - he did not raise an army, and did not conquer. Instead, he slowly revealed himself to those he could trust. They worked together to understand his powers, and not just to understand them, but to counter them - he was willing to provide the opportunity to uncover knowledge that could be used in just the kind of situation that is happening now. It worked. With access to a Necromancer, they were unable to uncover effective techniques in fighting them. The Elves possess knowledge of techniques that are effective in fighting the effects of Necromancy, techniques likely unknown to the rest of the world - and though the Elven Necromancer himself no longer lives, a side effect of his strong morals, draining his own life force to fuel his spells (and a story for another time) his teachings live on.
See how he responds. If it's anything but aghast, if he's actually open to this - note that it progresses steadily. Stop, reassure him, insure he's ready to learn more before telling him anything that implicates you directly...
You are a disciple of these teachings. You have learned spells tailored to overcoming necromancy, and it's likely the Order wouldn't approve of them. You have left the world to test these abilities against the threat Cumo poses, to insure their effectiveness, and (if possible) to undo what damage he's caused to the extent that you can. You believe they may be of use to the creature in the forest - that you can use them to do good, here and now, and save lives - but traveling with you into the woods will make him a party to this endeavor. He can leave now, and you will do what you can and then depart - you trust he will keep your secret. Or he can aid you, and learn more about these tools that might prove the key to bringing down Nightroar.
This order of events is specifically tailored to ease Eko into the idea of working with us, and to convince him that what we are doing is right but needs to be kept secret. It's also a way to test his opinion on things, without being outright dishonest with him and hiding things from him. What he thinks of this "historical" elven Necromancer will be important to how we proceed.
If possible, discuss the story you'll tell with Omo first, he does seem to like storytelling and might have good suggestions to add flaire, and having him be able to support you in some way and keeping your story straight would make it more convincing.
Post by: Angle on August 14, 2013, 02:45:45 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on August 14, 2013, 02:47:13 pm
Post by: Harbingerjm on August 14, 2013, 02:49:59 pm
We know a secret of his, we should share with him a secret of ours. We should bring him with us, that our actions involve a new secret we share together. Such activities bind people together more strongly than almost anything else.
The secret we reveal will not be the truth. But I think I have the person thing to say.
Say Eko can come with, but caution him that if he does so, he will become party to Elven secrets that may never be shared with anyone. Much as the dogmatic forces of Order have opposed his activities, activities which could have done real good, they would oppose what the elves have done. If he comes with you, he will learn much about dealing with the undead, perhaps things that will be useful to him, but he will be sworn to secrecy.
I get the feelings the promises of a priest of Order might be pretty strong. When we have moved away from the town and set up camp at the edge of the forest, we tell him a story...
The elves are not strangers to the recent spate of Necromancers. In fact, once, long ago, there was a Necromancer that arose even among the elves. This is a story about that elf. None outside the Elven lands have heard of this, and even many within are none the wiser, but despite feeling the call of Necromancy this elf was no madman intent on power - he did not raise an army, and did not conquer. Instead, he slowly revealed himself to those he could trust. They worked together to understand his powers, and not just to understand them, but to counter them - he was willing to provide the opportunity to uncover knowledge that could be used in just the kind of situation that is happening now. It worked. With access to a Necromancer, they were unable to uncover effective techniques in fighting them. The Elves possess knowledge of techniques that are effective in fighting the effects of Necromancy, techniques likely unknown to the rest of the world - and though the Elven Necromancer himself no longer lives, a side effect of his strong morals, draining his own life force to fuel his spells (and a story for another time) his teachings live on.
See how he responds. If it's anything but aghast, if he's actually open to this - note that it progresses steadily. Stop, reassure him, insure he's ready to learn more before telling him anything that implicates you directly...
You are a disciple of these teachings. You have learned spells tailored to overcoming necromancy, and it's likely the Order wouldn't approve of them. You have left the world to test these abilities against the threat Cumo poses, to insure their effectiveness, and (if possible) to undo what damage he's caused to the extent that you can. You believe they may be of use to the creature in the forest - that you can use them to do good, here and now, and save lives - but traveling with you into the woods will make him a party to this endeavor. He can leave now, and you will do what you can and then depart - you trust he will keep your secret. Or he can aid you, and learn more about these tools that might prove the key to bringing down Nightroar.
This order of events is specifically tailored to ease Eko into the idea of working with us, and to convince him that what we are doing is right but needs to be kept secret. It's also a way to test his opinion on things, without being outright dishonest with him and hiding things from him. What he thinks of this "historical" elven Necromancer will be important to how we proceed.
If possible, discuss the story you'll tell with Omo first, he does seem to like storytelling and might have good suggestions to add flaire, and having him be able to support you in some way and keeping your story straight would make it more convincing.
It's a lie told to a guy who loves researching and finding stuff out. One that would be fairly easily discovered, and that raises questions about "well if it's so accepted among elves how come you're a fugitive?" and the like, not to mention the problems if we ever did go back. No, that's a terrible idea.
Post by: GlyphGryph on August 14, 2013, 02:57:57 pm
We WANT him to know the truth, even discover it, we just want him to accept us despite it - we have potential for a seriously valuable ally here, and a ripe situation to take advantage of it.
Post by: Parisbre56 on August 14, 2013, 03:06:38 pm
When he realises what we are there are simple ways to convince him. We can convince him that we're good. He said that Order teaches that every magic user plays a part in The Plan. Why can't that include Death magic. Necromancy doesn't mean one should be evil. It's a misconception, just like the misconception that elves can't be necromancers. Plus we just saved his life by our use of necromancy. He broke some insignificant rules for the greater good. He feels like he has to do something, even if that breaks some rules, even if he has to leave his post. This is his chance to do something instead of waiting for something to happen.
If that fails, we can threaten him with blackmail. We know his secret. He's already under scrutiny. Walking around with a necromancer and the revelation of what's in a basement would ensure he wouldn't stay alive for long if he contacted the authorities. He has already lost his home either way. Why not come with us and help save the world?
If that fails... We'll see. We either kill him or tie him up and force him to come with us.
Of course this is for when we're discovered , not right now.
Post by: GlyphGryph on August 14, 2013, 03:12:12 pm
The only thing about our story that is a lie is the time it takes place - that it's in process instead of already decided.
That (and, ok, the gender of the elf in question) are the only lies. Everything else is true.
Post by: Parisbre56 on August 14, 2013, 03:16:02 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on August 14, 2013, 03:25:39 pm
If need be, you can even SAY that the first half is just a story and not the whole truth, just the most you can reveal.
We want him to get the truth, but we want to do it in a way that we can deny it and leave him with enough doubt to make our mistake if things go sour. The whole point is to let him read between the lines and figure it out sooner or later whether we tell him or not.
We're giving him plausible deniability if he gets caught as to what exactly was going on. We're giving him a way to convince himself out of revealing us, especially since we have his secret already.
This isn't a lie so much as it is giving him options about whether or not he really wants to pursue the truth.
But, and here's the important thing (I quote many great people who have said this):
Never hesitate to sacrifice truth for understanding.
"The Facts" won't help him understand the situation nearly as much as the story I wrote will. And we want him to really truly understand the situation - that means providing context. It means inaccuracies that slowly work him closer to the truth, because it's about opening his mind to possibilities he can only consider if its been readied for him.
Communicating the truth is far more important than telling the truth - and if we don't do the groundwork, he'll never believe us. He's got a lifetime of experience, much of it very recent, to overcome first.
Post by: Angle on August 14, 2013, 03:30:53 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on August 14, 2013, 04:21:58 pm
Saying something along the lines of "This story isn't the exact truth, but it's as close to the truth as I am allowed to give you." sounds good.
Post by: syvarris on August 14, 2013, 05:22:55 pm
In terms of his ability to fight this monster, he's completely useless.
Umm. I don't remember anything like this being said, but my memory is fuzzy about this game, so I'll defer to you. Still, he has healing magic, and those wards. Plus, if zombies or something wander near he can almost certainly help wih those.
And at the very least he's another potential target for the creature. Instead of a 50/50 chance of it taking us, it's a 33/33/33.
You mean, groups like the army it was created/summoned to destroy?
No. Or maybe. Pretty much, I'm just wondering if it works like normal horror monsters, with the "As long as it's a lone person, they're not safe.". Or at the very least if a higher percentage of groups who went in came back then pairs or loners. Probably not, but it can't hurt to ask.
No, no we have not. Which is why I suggest telling him that since Order magic apparently does nothing to the creature and he is likely far less capable in forests than either Omo or us, he should stay behind.
When was it said that order magic doesn't work on the creature? Regardless, the -only- disadvantage of taking Eko is that we can't use obvious necromancy. The only spell we were going to use is steal vitality, and if he gets curious about that, we can tell him GG's story.
Speaking of, I don't think we should tell that story yet. We don't know if Eko will join our group, and it could be risky to tell it now. I think it's a good idea if Eko becomes a long-term companion, but not before that's been proven. Also, it would just be a terrible idea to say we're a necromancer before testing the water. For all we know, he might have lost family and friends to zombies, and just assign all that hate to necromancers.
Post by: RAM on August 14, 2013, 06:52:56 pm
I am strongly opposed to the idea of either killing or forcing Eko to join us. We should be relatively safe from order if we stay close to the forest, as we are better equipped to deal with it then they are. If we start kidnapping and murdering to protect our secret, then we are almost certain to end up just as bad as any of the other necromancers. We go on this trip prepared to never return to the village. If Eko finds out about us, then we leave, follow the edge of the forest, and Eko is welcome to travel with us, but can go back and tell the knights if that is what he chooses to do.
Post by: Grek on August 14, 2013, 07:12:40 pm
Post by: Harbingerjm on August 14, 2013, 07:42:01 pm
Umm. I don't remember anything like this being said, but my memory is fuzzy about this game, so I'll defer to you. Still, he has healing magic, and those wards. Plus, if zombies or something wander near he can almost certainly help wih those.... No Order mage has ever managed to do anything to the creature, or heal its victims. His wards block our sight. Not only can he not actually do anything to help, he can actually hinder us by trying.
And at the very least he's another potential target for the creature. Instead of a 50/50 chance of it taking us, it's a 33/33/33.
No. Or maybe. Pretty much, I'm just wondering if it works like normal horror monsters, with the "As long as it's a lone person, they're not safe.". Or at the very least if a higher percentage of groups who went in came back then pairs or loners. Probably not, but it can't hurt to ask.It was created to destroy an army. It damn near did, and the only ones that survived were the ones that legged it. I really, really don't think it is less likely to attack groups. If anything, it would likely be the other way around- that is, a better chance of escaping notice on your own. As for it not being able to hurt to ask, I suppose that is true, that is if we don't care if Eko has the slightest bit of respect for our intellect.
When was it said that order magic doesn't work on the creature?When it was said that they've been trying to destroy it and/or heal its victims for hundreds of years with no success?
Regardless, the -only- disadvantage of taking Eko is that we can't use obvious necromancy. The only spell we were going to use is steal vitality, and if he gets curious about that, we can tell him GG's story.Wrong.
Post by: Cellmonk on August 14, 2013, 09:01:10 pm
If he is overly lawful or hateful, we shouldn't continue to test him. So far he seems to be minimally lawful, and he appears to trust us, but he may be hiding something deeply seated.
Remember that the "thou shalt not suffer a necromancer to live" law is ages old, and thus not necessarily deeply seated in the more modern culture.
Those arguing about his usefulness neglect his extensive knowledge and mastery of a different branch of magic. It appears that many advanced spells utilize multiple orders of magic. We may need order magic to do things such as golemancy.
Post by: GlyphGryph on August 14, 2013, 09:11:07 pm
Post by: monk12 on August 14, 2013, 10:05:34 pm
In terms of his ability to fight this monster, he's completely useless.
Umm. I don't remember anything like this being said, but my memory is fuzzy about this game, so I'll defer to you. Still, he has healing magic, and those wards. Plus, if zombies or something wander near he can almost certainly help wih those.
It's a fair point that no Order Wizard has managed to defeat this monster, but then again, no Wizard has come to grips with it either. Thus far, Order magic has only proven incapable of discovering the creature. Eko had this to say when you questioned him about what spells he could cast himself:
Quote from: 2-14
"Um... your wards only block sight, right?"
"That's right." Eko nods.
"Can they do anything else? Can they actually block the zombies, or raise an alarm?"
"Sufficiently powerful wards could, yes. The strongest wards I can cast would not do much other than slow down the undead for a time, and would take me some time to cast in the first place. The only reason I haven't cast more powerful wards is because they are quite mana-intensive; before the zombies there was no need for stronger wards, and now I must reserve a portion of my mana in case it is needed to repel an attack."
You blink in surprise. "Your magic can repel zombies?"
"If it comes to that. I specialize in defensive wards, but no Wizard situated near the haunted forest can serve without knowing some specialty spells. Undead are an aberration from the natural order- it stand to reason a Wizard can restore it." Eko shrugs. "I don't know how effective I can be- more likely I will need the mana for healing spells. Either way, I cannot overexert myself in good conscience."
You blink in surprise. "Oh. Well, your wards- can they repel loose souls?"
"Your concern for the children is touching, but no, their souls are not trapped in the forest by my wards, if that's what you are getting at. I do know wards for protection against spirits and ghosts, but none of those are in place around the forest. And remember, there were many victims before it was thought needful to ward the forest- they lay comatose for years, but never recovered."
You also have an idea of his failings in other branches of Order magic from a later conversation.
Quote from: 2-19
"Divinations?" You ask.
"Yes. They are Order spells to observe and analyze; they've never been my strong suit. When I tried them on the zombie, I didn't learn anything about how it had gotten past the ward."
For all we know, he might have lost family and friends to zombies, and just assign all that hate to necromancers.
No comment on the latter part of that sentence, but Eko has definitely lost good friends to zombies. Recently.
Quote from: 2-19
Eko sighs. "Cikul Scarletdaub helped me. He... was a good friend of mine. A little strange, to make his home so far from the village, so close to the forest, but brave and intelligent. He used to talk with me about the history of Thrimesdur, or some point of dogma or philosophy he'd sunk his teeth into. More importantly, he was also... a free-thinker. Not as bound by tradition as most other villagers. When I explained what needed to be done, he helped me subdue the zombie and smuggle it into the village in his wagon." Eko's voice becomes heavy with bitterness. "Cikul trusted me, and now he's dead. He's dead, and his wife and sisters are dead, and his only surviving family are soulless orphans." He fumbles beneath his robes for his flask.
Also dang how did I ever do conversation updates without indents. I am happy with this change.
Post by: Descan on August 14, 2013, 10:46:25 pm
Post by: Felius on August 14, 2013, 11:11:57 pm
If he admires the free-thinking trait in that fellow, then if he does react poorly we might want to remind him of that incident. To give us a chance.We just about got GM confirmation that it would be a bad idea to let him know of our powers, if in a somewhat subtle way. We took the chance with Omo because he was a long time friend who knew us well enough for it to actually not to be a big issue. On the other hand, Eko's a friendly acquintance. We know him for a few days, and while we helped him and are getting to know him better, being a necromancer is not likely to be ignored. If necromancers were common enough that any significant city had to deal with the occasional small time practitioner, maybe we could try to convince him that we were a "good necromancer".
But necromancers are legendary figure, the current time the only moment in history that there is more than a single necromancer at a given time, and even then, there are 3 known plus us. At best we'd probably get a "Surrender and we'll see if the order can cure you or kill you painlessly before you become a corrupt evil overlord" offer.
Post by: Parisbre56 on August 15, 2013, 10:55:06 am
Convincing people we're good comes down to creating dissonance between the stereotypical necromancer figure people have ingrained in their minds and the way they see us. Why did Omo come with us? Being our friend helped, probably a lot, but only because it meant he knew us, probably better than anybody. The biggest influence was the fact that we did not fit into the evil necromancer stereotype. And once people are hit with this (reasonable and free thinking/nom-dogmatic people at least) they begin thinking things over and give us at least the benefit of doubt if not outright acceptance. We already have some points for risking our lives for the children, keeping his secret, being elves, caring for the villagers and having some interesting conversations. If we defeat that thing or even better free/heal all the souls it has stolen/damaged (if they have somehow survived or if we gain enough info from it to be able to reverse its effects) it will be very hard for him to associate us with the image of an evil necromancer.
Plus, he wants to adventure and to make the difference, even if he has to break some rules. We can promise him a chance to do that. Or we can say that he can help keep us good. Or play ourselves as the victim, someone trying to make the best out of a bad situation that was thrust upon her unwillingly. Really, if we get him to listen there are dozens of ways we can convince him. We just have to get him out of the "necromancer=evil" mindset long enough to talk to him. And we can do that through good deeds.
Post by: GlyphGryph on August 15, 2013, 11:18:10 am
Most Necromancers DO go bad, and I think our having close friends is part of what will let us resist temptation to follow the same path.
Post by: Travisplo on August 20, 2013, 03:07:54 pm
Post by: monk12 on August 20, 2013, 03:11:29 pm
Well, I am all for taking Eko, but make sure that we have our supplies, we should be ready to set up a camp outside the forest, make it clear to Eko that we may spend days studying the forest. If Eko backs out at the prospect of days, then it is one less thing to worry about, and if Eko follows, and finds out about us, then we can continue our journey without needing to return to the village.
Have we tested the water as far as eko's attitude toward necromancy? Like his ideas around why all recorded necromancers were hyperhitlers? He may not possess an innate animosity toward necromancy, and he may be flexible. He doesn't seem to be extraordinarily zealous about the imperial order religion.
You speak cautiously. "I wasn't kidding when I said we would be extremely careful. We could be studying the forest for days."
Eko shrugs. "I've already informed the mayor of my plans; he can handle anything I could, apart from the wards, and those will survive without my supervision just fine. Bale is in charge of the village's defenses now, so I'm really free of responsibility until I return."
Omo cocks an eyebrow. "This town has a mayor? I thought you ran the show here."
"Oh, no; when it comes to legal matters, the mayor is in charge. I'm only responsible for religious activities." Eko says nonchalantly.
"And this mayor approves of your excursion?" You ask.
Eko runs a hand through his thinning hair. "Well... no, but in this instance, he has no authority over me. Aloclesno remains firmly in my jurisdiction, so I have the final say over how I manage it. He doesn't like it, but he doesn't really like me either, so there's no harm done."
"And the children are cared for?"
"Yes, I've made arrangements. What, did you think I would just abandon them?" Eko says, exasperated. "Despite popular opinion, I can manage my own affairs. Are we going to spend all morning talking, or are we going to the forest?"
You nod. "Very well, then. Welcome aboard, Eko."
Omo coughs into his hand, shooting you a meaningful glance. "Ah, Nym, is this a good idea? You know, all things considered?"
You ignore Eko's curious glance. "It'll be fine, Omo. Let's get moving."
Eko smiles, leading the way to the door. "Finally! If we're going to do this fool thing, we'd better be about it."
You quickly pass out of the temple and into the streets of Bedscaled. Several villagers bustle about in the early morning light, most of them fetching water from the well. The soldier's camp is also active; it's difficult to get a good count, but Omo assures you that several soldiers and horses are absent, probably on some mission or other. Eko doesn't break his stride as he heads for the edge of town, despite receiving several odd looks for his traveling garb and his spear.
It's a beautiful day for a hike. The sun shines bright and hot in a cloudless sky, and a warm breeze from the west blows at your back. You had been a little worried that the portly priest would slow you down, but Eko sets a ground-eating pace, easily keeping up with your longer stride. Once you've put the village and farms well behind you, you slow down a bit to eat Eko's breakfast rations; a hard bread with some kind of nut baked inside, and some creamy cheese to go with it.
"So, Eko..." You begin, breaking the silence. "What do you think about all the Necromancers that have been popping up lately?"
Omo rolls his eyes behind Eko's back. Eko frowns, munching on his bread. "What do you mean by that? War and strife, pain and death; it is what always happens when Necromancers arise."
"Yes, but why do you think that is?" You ask. "Why do they always go on conquering sprees? It's a question I asked the Sages before leaving Yicelafo, and they did not know the answer. What do you think?"
Eko shrugs. "Well, just as humans are born with the spark of Order because they have the favor of one god or another, so too are Necromancers born with their spark because of the favor of dark Death gods. And just as humans use their spark to become Wizards and priests in accordance with the will of the gods of Order, so do Necromancers spread death and destruction at the urging of whatever dark gods they worship."
"Necromancer gods?" You ask interestedly. "What do you know about them?"
Eko finishes the last of his cheese and bread, shaking his head. "Not much, off the top of my head. They're all dead, now that their worshipers are destroyed. Supposedly, that is the reason Necromancers spend so much time fighting and conquering; the death they cause strengthens the god that empowers them, and if they ever gained their own kingdoms and followers they could establish Temples to Death, which would revive those gods."
"So that's why Thrimesdur suppresses Necromancy so harshly? To keep the Death gods from returning?"
Eko shrugs. "Well, that, and the prophecies." He sighs as you exchange a blank look with Omo. "Right. Elves. Of course you don't know the prophecies. Well. Alright... one of the main schools of Order magic is Divinations, and the most powerful and arcane spells of that school relate to predicting the future. Shortly after the Golgothan War, the Imperial Archmage was called to make a Prophecy, to guide the Empire after the devastation of the war. The Archmage was one of the most powerful Wizards to ever hold that title, and he made a series of prophecies to govern the actions of the Empire and the Order of Wizards. One of those prophecies says that the last Emperor of Thrimesdur will be slain by Necromancy; not in those words, of course, but I forget the exact verse."
"The Emperor will be killed by a Necromancer? Wouldn't that just make somebody else Emperor?" Omo asks skeptically.
Eko shakes his head. "No, it's very clear that this will be the last Emperor of Thrimesdur. His death marks the end of the Empire. And it's more troubling than that; prophecies made at the very founding of the Empire say that when the Empire finally falters, a great cataclysm will befall all of Urak. Many scholars have spent their lives analyzing and correlating the various prophecies of Thrimesdur, and while some passages are open to interpretation, these prophecies in particular seem clear. Necromancy will destroy the Empire and the world, and while it's unclear whether the former will lead directly to the latter, it's still best to take precautions."
"By killing every Necromancer you can find?" You ask. "I don't know... it seems to me that the Necromancers go on their killing sprees because they are so heavily persecuted. If they weren't killed for being who they are, wouldn't they just keep living peacefully in their villages?"
Eko barks a short laugh. "You know, it's funny... I had a similar conversation with Cikul not too long ago. It's hard to argue against the weight of the prophecies, and the High Priests say that the influence of the Death Gods would lead to war and destruction in any case. If the policy seems harsh, remember that it was implemented in the wake of the Golgothan War. The Necromancers of the world had just proven incapable of peaceful coexistence with the Empire, and then a dire prophecy warns that they will attack again in the future? An attack that will destroy the Empire, and maybe the world? I can't fault the decision that the Emperor made."
You make a polite, noncommital noise, walking on in silence for a time. "What did you learn about the last priest to go to Aloclesno?" You ask, pointing at his book.
Eko pats the book in his arm. "Not too much. The priest was named Kiros Muleclenched, and while he didn't give the reason he entered the forest in his journal, later writers suggest it was an unhealthy fascination with Necromancy, as he grew up in the wake of the previous Necromancer War."
"The previous Necromancer War?"
Eko nods impatiently. "Yes, Seto the Necromancer, about two hundred fifty years ago. Kiros entered Alocelsno thirty years after Seto was defeated, and kept detailed notes on his actions while in the forest. He entered Aloclesno under the protection of a Minor Ward against Necromancy- the same ward that surrounds the forest- and made slow progress for two days, sleeping under the protection of a Major Ward. He traveled about fifteen miles into the forest, and cast a Sanctuary on a clearing he found that likely dates to the Golgothan War based on the abandoned weaponry he found there. The Sanctuary lasted for two days, during which he cast several divinations on portions of the forest untested since the Golgothan War, as well as exploring a bit on foot."
"And?" You ask eagerly. "What did he find?"
Eko shakes his head. "Nothing. Nothing Necromantic, anyway; he made notes about plants not found outside the forest, but he found nothing to justify his caution. Ultimately he decided to leave the forest without risking his life further, and when he got out he was censured for priestly misconduct and misappropriation of Imperial funds; the mana potions he used weren't cheap, after all. The two charges together got him remanded to a monastery for... years afterward, anyway. Maybe the rest of his life."
"Aren't you worried that will happen to you?" Omo asks.
Eko smiles to himself. "No, not really. Oh, I'll probably get in trouble for risking my life on this mission, but I didn't waste Imperial funds to come along, and while such excursions are discouraged, they're not forbidden, especially with two recent victims in my care. I rather suspect there was more to Kiros' punishment than a sabbatical in a haunted forest, judging by some comments made by later writers."
"You said Kiros didn't go to the center of the forest, right?"
Eko nods. "Not physically, no. He did cast several divinations that covered the center of the forest, however, and detected nothing. That was the greatest outcome of his journey, as the center of the forest is beyond easy divination range for any border village; to my knowledge, that is the only attempt at scrying that portion of the forest made since the Golgothan War."
"But if he's the only one to try, then he could have missed something, right?" You ask eagerly. "Maybe he miscast a spell, or made some other error."
"I suppose it's possible." Eko says dubiously. "It doesn't seem very likely, though. Kiros was described as being quite accomplished at divinations, and by his own account he was quite thorough. His testimony is the strongest evidence that there is nothing physical to find in Aloclesno."
"We'll find something." You reply confidently.
The conversation shifts to Aloclesno, and the creature(?) that waits there. Eko gives you a brief summary of some of his spells -a list which include the spells cast by Kiros- and admits that he isn't much of a fighter; his spear belongs to a traveler who left it behind long ago, and his only training with the weapon comes from serving in the militia of his hometown, an experience that is mandatory for youths in Thrimesdur.
Soon enough, you stand at the edge of the forest of Aloclesno, not too far from where you entered it last time. Very little of the mid-morning sunlight manages to shine beneath the dense canopy of the forest, giving the forest a dim, enclosed feeling. The trees which seemed so hostile in the nighttime are now merely disgruntled, unhappy about unwelcome guests.
Eko steps forward, seeming to feel the air in front of his face. "Well, the ward is just as I left it. No worries there. What do we do now?"
The time is upon you; how should you begin in your dealings with the forest?
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Your Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Eko Cleanvise (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Eko's Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
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Post by: Travisplo on August 20, 2013, 03:22:46 pm
Post by: Felius on August 20, 2013, 04:39:53 pm
Also, urgh, I really didn't wanted Eko to come, that will seriously hinder any help we can try to give.
Post by: Parisbre56 on August 20, 2013, 05:14:08 pm
Also, urgh, I really didn't wanted Eko to come, that will seriously hinder any help we can try to give.Actually, it might be the other way around. Yes, our first order of business should be to try and control and study the creature, but if that fails, we can kill it with Eko without using necromancy. We can say we used our elven magic (which is technically true since See Vitality is a very low level Life and Death spell that could be casted by someone without much magical capacity) to detect the creature, try to control it or impair it (which isn't visible) and if that fails use Eko's spells to repel it and kill it or trap it. This abjuration spell is especially interesting, since the creature is essentially a concentration of necromantic energy.
Also, interesting to see that Order provides a means to see the structure of order spells, just like Death does for its own spells.
That book account proves that at least the wards work against the creature.
And the other stuff about the Necromantic gods and the prophecy is interesting too. We should make our way to the capital after this and hit the libraries for info about this Morka god and necromancy-related prophecies. And make a mental note to stay away from the emperor, just in case.
We could make our way a bit deeper to the forest, as far as the clearing since it's a relatively short trip, set up a ward there and investigate the clearing and then the area just outside the ward's boarder, with Omo casting Detect Magic and us casting See Vitality. Maybe even investigate on our way there if we can maintain see vitality and detect magic for that long. Or we could set up a mobile ward and then make our way a bit deeper into the forest, but I think we can take a small risk and not waste that mana.
Post by: RAM on August 20, 2013, 09:19:24 pm
But yes, have Eko prepare a mobile ward, we will see how it affects us, and try to find the location that the zombies were gathered, and see if we can pick up the trail of the children again. Have eko cast some divinations on the area and make preparations to attempt to return to the clearing where the children were found early in the morning. We should attempt to study the vitality of the forest to see if there are any variances between within and beyond the warded area. Then make work on making a somewhat permanent camp-site.
At night, we should discuss how such an enduring magical effect might be possible, if it could feed on the energy of souls to recast itself or some such. And discus Balkoth, why someone would cast such a spell, and how someone who could defeat an entire army with one magical effect was stopped, and what it would be like to actually possess that much power.
Next morning we should set off to investigate the site that the children were found, and if that doesn't reveal anything unexpected, and time permits, then we could experiment with us leaving the safety of the ward, assuring Eko that we could sense the creature last time, and that its absence could be due to our protection, and that someone leaving the ward is the only way to locate the entity...
Post by: Felius on August 20, 2013, 11:18:47 pm
Besides, by a similar logic, if the prophecy said that a ginger would kill the last emperor, would it be correct to try to kill all gingers? :P
Post by: Gamerlord on August 21, 2013, 01:20:29 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on August 21, 2013, 06:13:39 am
Meh, the order wizards are just completely lack imagination. Proper procedure would be simply allow prophecy takes it course and then name the next leader "grand poobah" or whatever instead of Emperor. :PYeah, you're right, for all we know, depending on how the prophecy is worded, it could mean that after it there are only Empresses or there is a rebellion and the Republic defeats the Empire
Besides, by a similar logic, if the prophecy said that a ginger would kill the last emperor, would it be correct to try to kill all gingers? :P
But yes, have Eko prepare a mobile ward, we will see how it affects us, and try to find the location that the zombies were gathered, and see if we can pick up the trail of the children again.Actually, we already are where we found the group of zombies (or close enough anyway).
Quote from: monk12
Soon enough, you stand at the edge of the forest of Aloclesno, not too far from where you entered it last time.
Quote from: RAM
Have eko cast some divinations on the area and make preparations to attempt to return to the clearing where the children were found early in the morning. We should attempt to study the vitality of the forest to see if there are any variances between within and beyond the warded area. Then make work on making a somewhat permanent camp-site.While I do like the conversation topics, I don't think we should waste an entire day making preparations since we don't have anything to prepare and we're not that far away from the clearing we found the children.
At night, we should discuss how such an enduring magical effect might be possible, if it could feed on the energy of souls to recast itself or some such. And discus Balkoth, why someone would cast such a spell, and how someone who could defeat an entire army with one magical effect was stopped, and what it would be like to actually possess that much power.Tell ghost stories.Enquire as to how necromancers have changed since the Golgothans. And generally turn the conversation towards a general analysis of necromancy and its effect on people, both subjects and practitioners.
Also, mobile wards cost a lot, so Eko would be at best capable of maintaining one for a day, if I understand how it works. That's why I said we're better off legging it to the clearing and making a stationary ward once we're there, which costs 1MP and lasts for a week, perfect for a camp site. And unless Eko has more divinations he's not telling us about, I don't think his current spell set will be of any use. If anything, he's better suited for spying US.
The only thing I'm worried about is that the wards may disrupt our necromantic spells, so we should do some investigating while he sets it up, just in case it disrupts our abilities.
Post by: GlyphGryph on August 21, 2013, 02:34:46 pm
You outran them last time, and you won't be going nearly so deep this time.
If you have no luck with this, you'll start camping just inside the wards hoping to lure them out, until you're out of mana at least. But the key is that you're going to try to get their attention and draw them out.
Also, ask if all of this other guys spells were cast from inside the wards - maybe the wards were somehow interrupting the detection magic? Mention that you could no longer sense the vitality of your pursuers once you were outside the forest, indicating that the wards may be blocking your ability to detect them as well as their ability to detect you.
So, Goals:
We've got an improved version of detect vitality, which we might be able to use with our necromantic sight to really figure out more of what's going on with these creatures... IF we can get their attention. We should bring Omo with us, and talk about what's going on away from Eko's ears and talk about larger plans.
If we fail to draw any attention...
Search the woods for animals. Are there any? Bugs, even? Why does this force seem to target people - are the trees flatlined in the same way somehow? Without bugs to pollinate them, how do they spread and persist? If we can detect animals, do they differ from the kind of animals outside the ward - is it only smaller animals or something?
Gather information of this sort.
A reminder of our last encounter:
Quote
Suddenly, you whip your head around, searching behind you in the forest. Coming up behind you is a source of Necromantic Energy- three Vitality's worth, forty five feet away but moving fast, coming straight at you.
...it is definitely Necromantic...
..As you duck between the trees and jump over shadowy roots, you glance over your shoulder, trying to get a better idea of what exactly you're fleeing from. Unlike the zombies, your pursuer sheds no light on its surroundings- you catch glimpses of purple only because of your Necromantic Sight. It doesn't seem to be very large, whatever it is- about as big as a dog, rumbling easily along the forest floor...
...A long, rotted log suddenly looms in the darkness, but you easily climb over while Omo hurdles it without even breaking stride. As you rush through the trees, you see that your pursuer has a much more difficult time of it, taking the long way around the obstacle...
Post by: Descan on August 21, 2013, 04:08:09 pm
I know we've been over it before, but I want to know what our goals are.
Long-term, short-term, mid-term. What do we want to do at the forest, with Eko, at the old elven homeland, with the Empire, with the Necromancers who decided to raise an army?
Post by: Parisbre56 on August 21, 2013, 05:43:26 pm
@Descan: Personally, I say we learn whatever we can from the forest and then make our way to the capital to gain more info in the libraries there. What we do after that depends on the info we get and whether or not the capital has come under attack. I have a few ideas, mainly visiting the dwarves and trying to gain more info and maybe kill the lead necromancer. Cut off the head and the body dies. Or we could try aiding in the war with sneak attacks. With enough mana potions we could turn a large number of zombies against their master. And we should experiment. We haven't done anything new since that see vitality spell.
Post by: Angle on August 21, 2013, 07:38:27 pm
Post by: RAM on August 21, 2013, 08:08:23 pm
I mostly want to waste a day in order to waste a day. Getting an early start would have its advantages, and giving Eko the impression that we intend to stay here a while would support our claims.
Eko probably isn't as adept at covering wooded terrain as we are, perhaps it would be wise not to expect them to run to a clearing and then spend half an hour casting a spell without having any protection...
Post by: Parisbre56 on August 22, 2013, 07:35:32 am
Quote
Sanctuary- 9 MP - Casting time: 30 minutes. As Major Ward, but the field is strong enough to physically halt or oppose creatures and objects strongly imbued with the Magic in question. This field cannot be tied to a person or object, and the field is not physically tied to the area it is cast.May I ask what this means exactly? The field is neither tied to objects nor areas? Does that mean that if it is cast while travelling on a boat for example, the field will travel with the boat? Or does that mean that it can be moved by using other spells?
Post by: Harbingerjm on August 22, 2013, 07:54:25 am
Actually, it IS early in the morning, midmorning in the author's words, although I understand what you mean. I just feel that with the threat of the necromancer looming we shouldn't waste any time.I concur. "Dicking around in a forest while our peers ravage nations" is not really the best way to prove our desire to reform our trade.
I would guess the latter, since "goes flying off into space the moment it is cast" seems unlikely. Also, moving with the boat would mean it was tied to an object, that being the boat.QuoteSanctuary- 9 MP - Casting time: 30 minutes. As Major Ward, but the field is strong enough to physically halt or oppose creatures and objects strongly imbued with the Magic in question. This field cannot be tied to a person or object, and the field is not physically tied to the area it is cast.May I ask what this means exactly? The field is neither tied to objects nor areas? Does that mean that if it is cast while travelling on a boat for example, the field will travel with the boat? Or does that mean that it can be moved by using other spells?
Post by: GlyphGryph on August 22, 2013, 09:48:05 am
Just wondering: What is our goal?
I know we've been over it before, but I want to know what our goals are.
Long-term, short-term, mid-term. What do we want to do at the forest, with Eko, at the old elven homeland, with the Empire, with the Necromancers who decided to raise an army?
My goals are:
To build a reputation as a force for good, so that Necromancers in general and us in particular are no longer persecuted. Or at least a limited version thereof so we don't have to live in fear and can have a place we can call home.
To recover the elven homelands and cleanse them of their curse
To stop the world from being destroyed
So - why the forest?
The forest helps the first directly, and provides practice for the second - in addition to being the right thing to do. It's a potentially very useful way to gain knowledge directly relevant to our goals.
So - why Eko?
I have a strong, growing suspicion that we aren't going to be able to cleanse our homeland alone - It took a collaboration between a mage of every type to remove this evil necromancer from the realm, and I strongly suspect there's a reason for that, some sort of synergy that's required to overcome this powerful necromantic magic. I'm already regretting our failure to figure out a way to bring our Life-mage associate along - I suspect at some point though, we might gain another chance, but that's not guaranteed - and didn't want to miss out on what is clearly another opportunity here. Eko may or may not come with us long-term... for now (I believe he'll likely get a strong incentive to do so soon, from the signs I've seen). But we can't let the opportunity slip past. We want him to feel like he's doing this with us, that he's important to our success, that we are doing the right thing, and we want his potential to increase.
At the very least, I want to see what effect his abjuration ability has on the creatures we'll be encountering.
At the very least, he has proven an incredibly source of valuable knowledge, since he's educated in many of the ways of the world we've spent our life cut off from.
Other things to do:
Find out if Eko knows anything about synergizing magic. I almost suspect that golems may be something we can't do alone.
Also, remember to specify we have an IMPROVED version of detect vitality that allows us to see things better than the regular version Eko knows. *durr, almost missed that*
Post by: Harbingerjm on August 22, 2013, 09:54:41 am
Other things to do:Oooh, good point. We should definitely find out about that.
Find out if Eko knows anything about synergizing magic. I almost suspect that golems may be something we can't do alone.
Post by: monk12 on August 22, 2013, 09:36:24 pm
Actually, it IS early in the morning, midmorning in the author's words, although I understand what you mean. I just feel that with the threat of the necromancer looming we shouldn't waste any time.QuoteSanctuary- 9 MP - Casting time: 30 minutes. As Major Ward, but the field is strong enough to physically halt or oppose creatures and objects strongly imbued with the Magic in question. This field cannot be tied to a person or object, and the field is not physically tied to the area it is cast.May I ask what this means exactly? The field is neither tied to objects nor areas? Does that mean that if it is cast while travelling on a boat for example, the field will travel with the boat? Or does that mean that it can be moved by using other spells?
It's a weird distinction and not likely to come up, but:
Minor/Major ward could be centered on a boat, and they'd move along with that boat.
Minor/Major ward could be cast on an area (say, an island,) and if crazy stupid magic made the island float away or sink or whatever, the ward would float/sink with it. Essentially, those spells treat the physical area the spell was cast like it was a discrete object, and move with it. If the hypothetical island were to break into pieces or otherwise be destroyed, then the ward would unravel prematurely.
If Sanctuary were cast in an area on that island, and the island floated away, the Sanctuary... wouldn't. It'd just hang out floating above the ocean until the duration ran out. It isn't anchored to anything physical, it's more of a metaphysical thing that Eko didn't go into much detail on in his summary. Incidentally, it would also be much harder to shift the Sanctuary through magical means (even more so if the Sanctuary is protecting against that kind of Magic, since it would basically unravel.)
It is worded poorly, and should probably say something like "and is not tied to the physical area it is cast" instead. Like I said, rather unlikely to come up ever at all, and I don't foresee it even being a thing that might happen for the next, like, two chapters.
Also, looks like the current consensus runs along the lines of "no mobile wards, hoof it to nearby clearing, put up a stationary ward, various recon/questions suggestions from there."
Post by: Harbingerjm on August 22, 2013, 09:38:32 pm
Eko probably isn't as adept at covering wooded terrain as we are, perhaps it would be wise not to expect them to run to a clearing and then spend half an hour casting a spell without having any protection...This is worth taking into account. We should probably ask Eko how he is at that sort of activity.
Post by: Parisbre56 on August 23, 2013, 04:03:13 am
I change my vote to "cast a mobile ward". It's not like we don't have the mana to spare, it won't take long to cast and it will probably allow us to investigate on our way there. If not, we can always find an excuse to go to the border of the field.
Post by: speedyth on August 23, 2013, 06:54:08 pm
Post by: Grek on August 23, 2013, 06:58:08 pm
I disapprove of the idea of casting a mobile ward. since the wards prevent our necro-sight from seeing outside the ward. We also know the person who last attempted to locate and kill the entity were unable to find it because the prevented the entity from seeing the person. the Evidence we have suggests that the creature ONLY appears when it detects a being that can contain a soul.Agreed.
Post by: Angle on August 23, 2013, 07:13:24 pm
Post by: speedyth on August 23, 2013, 11:19:59 pm
Quote
We have Eko cast a ward on himself and maybe on Omo too, but not on us. We make sure to stay outside the range of the ward.FTFY
PS: I see no problem with your suggestion. carry on...
Post by: RAM on August 24, 2013, 08:43:31 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on August 24, 2013, 09:01:11 am
Post by: Harbingerjm on August 24, 2013, 09:40:17 am
Why cast wards on 2 people? Won't be any different from having it on Eko. Plus, having it on Eko gives us an excuse to get away from him.How would it do that?
Post by: Parisbre56 on August 24, 2013, 09:46:06 am
Switch "we want to lure the creature" with another excuse.
Post by: Deep Waters on August 24, 2013, 02:03:19 pm
----------------------
Ward: It's simple. Find a clearing, cast Alarm triggered sensing Necromantic Energy (maybe connect that to a major ward, or even a Sanctuary if his alcohol is secretly a mana potion/we're willing to share ours). If Alarm is tripped, that obviously means something is there and we won't need to explain how we know something is there without tipping Eko off about our necromantic abilities. Of course, we should probably find out what the range specifications of all those spells are before finalizing that. Alternatively, cast an Alarm that triggers a Minor Ward centered on Eko (if we want more mobility), cast an Alarm that triggers a Major Ward centered on Eko (if we want more mobility AND if we're willing to share our mana potions) or simply cast a Minor Ward centered on Eko (if we want to let our Necromantic Sight do all the work).
Using Sense Necromancy/Necromantic Sight with the Ward in Place: If the ward works, presumably the creatures won't be able detect our presence. Eko will likely cast divinations at that point-- which, from past experience, will probably detect nothing. At that point, we could suggest that the divinations can't detect creatures of necromancy, but it's hard to tell what Eko will say to that-- on one hand, he seems to have been indoctrinated pretty strongly that Order magic is all that matters; on the other hand, he's also clearly been questioning some of that doctrine. We could also suggest that it's Eko's divinations alone that can't detect them, but that seems somewhat callous to say-- especially when there's strong hints that the former explanation is far more likely. If they do detect something, however, then we might not have the luxury of explaining why we're stepping outside of the safety of whatever spell he casts.
Telling Eko About Necromancy/Recruiting Him: I'm not entirely sure it's a bad idea to just tell him once we're in Aloclesno proper-- while he's expressed more neutral facts and the general opinions of Thrimesdur than his own perspectives on the subject, he's presented them in a thoughtful, open-minded manner that points toward the ability to accept us. Alternatively, we could tell him after we dispel the creature, but it might already be obvious by that point. As for coming along, we should offer only if we:
A) tell him about our necromantic abilities and he doesn't outright reject us,
B) extract a sworn oath from him that he won't tell anyone (as long as we don't turn evil, of course),
C) beat the monster(s) of Aloclesno,
D) and are still in Aloclesno, even if it's the outskirts.
If he proves reluctant to believe in our good intentions even after C, we can invite him along as someone with more magical abilities and enough lack of bias to keep an eye on us where Omo, being unskilled in magic and our best friend, might not. If he does accept us, we can appeal to his desire to help others-- by that point we will have shown our unique ability to assist via A and how effective we can be via C. If he rejects our offer, then we should be safe via B and D-- he's an Order mage, oaths have got to be important to him, and no one will be going deep enough into Aloclesno to overhear us, not even Bale. As for what we do if he does outright reject us... let's not dwell too much on that. :(
Thinking on it, the monsters of Aloclesno sound as if they're actually not very powerful at all, magically-speaking. They've only preyed on humans with no magical ability, like soldiers and children. Girus' army lost their wizards before they even retreated into the forest, and all the mages they've had look into the problem only examined the aftermath (the victims), not the cause-- well, okay, Kiros tried to look into the cause, but he found nothing. Speaking of which, that seems to imply that either Order mages can't detect the presence of these creatures with divinations or that the latter are both too weak to face a mage/anyone prepared for an attack, as well as smart enough to identify and avoid them-- perhaps both. Of course, that's no reason to go unprepared in the face of uncertainty, but wouldn't it be hilarious if we were making such a big fuss about the Necromantic soul-stealing equivalent of a goblin?
The Prophecy: It'd be amazingly tragic if *we* were the necromancer destined to kill the Emperor because he's a horrible bastard or something like that. Far more likely is that Curo will end up doing that at some point, or maybe Fale/any one of Morka's unknown number of followers.
Regarding the profiles: "Clarity" is slightly confusing, imo. How long does Eko have to meditate to get that effect? Does he have to meditate during the attack or beforehand in preparation? If the latter, how long does the effect last? Etc. The wards could use range specifications in their descriptions (assuming we know their range; if not we should probably ask Eko). Nym's "Sense Necromancy" passive ability reads "Sense Necromantic Energy at a range of 5*Vitality*Vitality feet;" was that intended to be Vitality^2? It looks like a typo.
Also, the fact that Eko, who is clearly far more experienced than us, has 9 Mana in comparison to our 12, and has only twice the number of spells we have when we've only been a true mage for twenty-two days really says something, I think.
Something about our TALENT. ;D
Edit: mfw I'm editing my post and forget that indenting lines doesn't work in forum posts right before I try to insert another paragraph above the line by pressing enter. -_-
Post by: Angle on August 24, 2013, 02:07:17 pm
Post by: Harbingerjm on August 24, 2013, 03:15:58 pm
The Prophecy: It'd be amazingly tragic if *we* were the necromancer destined to kill the Emperor because he's a horrible bastard or something like that. Far more likely is that Curo will end up doing that at some point, or maybe Fale/any one of Morka's unknown number of followers.And then it turned out that the Last Emperor was a necromancer and turned himself into a lich.
Post by: RAM on August 24, 2013, 05:27:40 pm
Kiros could have just been lying, they may have wanted to study the forest's magic or made some sort of pact with an intelligence that controls it...
Using an alarm would be risky, we do not know the exact nature of the entity, and a more general alarm might be triggered by an actual necromancer...
Post by: Deep Waters on August 24, 2013, 05:49:46 pm
Yeah, Emperor is a necromancer, Curo Nightroar is a pseudonym for the emperor to act under, the emperor succumbs to an old trap that was set by Balkoth, the necromancy god uses them as a portal to enter our world, we kill them to use their extra-special blood to fight other necromancers...
Kiros could have just been lying, they may have wanted to study the forest's magic or made some sort of pact with an intelligence that controls it...
Using an alarm would be risky, we do not know the exact nature of the entity, and a more general alarm might be triggered by an actual necromancer...
Kiros may have been lying, but there's no reason not to believe that he was telling the truth. The forest was explicitly ordinary before the curse, and there's no indication that necromantic magic has any effect on its environment simply by being present there; thus, it's highly unlikely that the forest has any magic of its own. There's little evidence that there is an intelligent entity behind the curse, and even if there were, what would it have to gain from such a pact that Kiros could or even tried to provide?
That is, of course, assuming that Kiros would've made such a pact; since a large part of our motivation has to do with the idea that necromancy is not inherently evil, assuming that a fascination with such magic leads to evil is kind of counterproductive. Furthermore, Kiros himself had little to gain from such a pact-- he was an Order mage, and, as far as we know, it's impossible or at least incredibly difficult to learn spells across disciplines. That's the only thing I can think of that a necromantic entity could offer that Kiros clearly didn't take advantage of.
After all, if he were lying, why wouldn't he tell a lie that wouldn't lead to him being banished to a monastery for years, or maybe even for life? If he was punished because his lie was found out, why wouldn't Eko mention this very important hypothetical fact?
As for Alarm, we already know that the entity is composed of or at least uses Necromantic Energy, because we can sense/see it with our passive abilities. I also don't see us using necromancy until we actually know that something is there, anyway-- we don't really have any necromancy spells that are useful to prepare before a battle, and even if we did we could probably just cast them before Eko finishes casting that Alarm/ward combo (which I suspect would take as long as both spells combined to set up?). Thus, there's no reason that we would cast a necromantic spell before the alarm is already tripped by someone else.
If another necromancer trips it somehow, then I don't see what's the downside to that, either-- the Alarm is to help us become aware of a presence that might not be entirely detectable by us before it's too late, in a way that doesn't require us to explain ourselves (like our Necromantic sight) while at the same time automatically setting off a nice shield. If something unexpected trips it, then that will only serve to mitigate such an unwelcome surprise.
Can you clarify why you believe using Alarm is a downside?
Post by: Parisbre56 on August 24, 2013, 07:02:23 pm
Quote
Alarm- 1 MP - Casting time: 10 minutes. Creates a field that waits on a specific trigger, often the presence of a particular magical energy or the movement or destruction of a physical item. When activated, the field can either create a noise of some kind, or trigger another spell entirely. Has a duration of about one week, though each additional point of mana spent increases the duration of the ward by three or four weeks each.Cast alarm on a stick, then have it trigger a minor ward when the stick breaks. That way, we can have the ward ready to trigger whenever we need it. And it can also be used offensively or to trap the creature. We just have to ask Eko if it works like that.
If it's possible, I say we do that.
Post by: Deep Waters on August 24, 2013, 07:12:13 pm
Oh, I just had the perfect idea: Ward grenades. Like smoke grenades, only better.QuoteAlarm- 1 MP - Casting time: 10 minutes. Creates a field that waits on a specific trigger, often the presence of a particular magical energy or the movement or destruction of a physical item. When activated, the field can either create a noise of some kind, or trigger another spell entirely. Has a duration of about one week, though each additional point of mana spent increases the duration of the ward by three or four weeks each.Cast alarm on a stick, then have it trigger a minor ward when the stick breaks. That way, we can have the ward ready to trigger whenever we need it. And it can also be used offensively or to trap the creature. We just have to ask Eko if it works like that.
IF IT'S POSSIBLE, i SAY WE DO THAT.
A minor ward wouldn't really do all that much; it seems to just bend necromantic perception (when used against necromancy, anyway). It's definitely intriguing if you apply it to higher spells, though. Imagine having something that's easily shattered and casting an Alarm-triggered Minor Abjuration on it-- like an EMP grenade, but for magic instead of electronics, heh.
In this situation, though, I think it would be a better idea to have it triggered by Necromantic Energy, simply because it would help disguise our ability to sense nearby necromantic creatures by setting Eko up to be our "lookout," so to speak. We won't have to explain why we know something is there, because Eko will know already.
Post by: Parisbre56 on August 24, 2013, 07:22:00 pm
And we can always say we sensed the creature's vitality with See Vitality, which is technically not lying, since our necromantic sight essentially picks vitality affected by necromantic energy. See Vitality is the most common spell among elven Life mages. He'll probably just assume that we're uneducated Life mages.
Post by: Deep Waters on August 24, 2013, 07:35:28 pm
It could be triggered when we cast a necromantic spell to investigate the area. We don't know how sensitive alarm is.
And we can always say we sensed the creature's vitality with See Vitality, which is technically not lying, since our necromantic sight essentially picks vitality affected by necromantic energy. See Vitality is the most common spell among elven Life mages. He'll probably just assume that we're uneducated Life mages.
We don't have any necromantic spells that investigate the area aside from See Vitality, which isn't likely to be any more useful than Necromantic Sight in this case. All of the others create effects with varying degrees of visibility. Our Sense Necromancy and Necromantic Sight are both passive abilities, not spells. If those give off necromantic energy (which I highly doubt), then we'll set off his Alarm before we even step into the forest-- but we're going to have a lot more to worry about if it does, because that would mean that we literally can't hide our status as necromancers in the face of any spell that detects necromancy unless it's targeted.
Actually, if we do decide against using an Alarm-triggered ward and we manage to succeed and recruit Eko anyway, we should probably test that out. While I'm almost certain it doesn't work like that, we need to know for sure if that's going to be a problem in the future or not.
Also, uneducated Life mage? We already know that leaving a mage uneducated can have some disastrous consequences; Eko would surely know that as well. While fairly logical, there's no reason that he'd know that See Vitality is a common spell among Life Mages and then subsequently assume that we're a novice Life Mage-- he would at least ask us to explain ourselves. After all, any explanation for why we hid our status as mages won't mesh well with our determination to help with Aloclesno.
Post by: Grek on August 24, 2013, 07:51:25 pm
I think you're overthinking things a bit. Eko will know we are a mage as soon as we cast the spell to destroy the curse, if he hasn't already figured it out. If we want to continue to pose as a Life mage (and I think we should, at least for now) then being able to passively detect vitality is not something we need need to hide.
That said, getting Eko to cast an Alarm on a twig which will make a minor ward when the twig is broken would be a very sound precaution. If something bad happens, Omo or Eko can break the twig and make us invisible to the curse spirit.
Post by: Deep Waters on August 24, 2013, 08:23:11 pm
@Deep Waters:
I think you're overthinking things a bit. Eko will know we are a mage as soon as we cast the spell to destroy the curse, if he hasn't already figured it out. If we want to continue to pose as a Life mage (and I think we should, at least for now) then being able to passively detect vitality is not something we need need to hide.
That said, getting Eko to cast an Alarm on a twig which will make a minor ward when the twig is broken would be a very sound precaution. If something bad happens, Omo or Eko can break the twig and make us invisible to the curse spirit.
Technically, we passively detect Necromantic Energy, not Vitality. Furthermore, I'm not really worried about just being outed as someone who can magic (though there's really no logical reason for us to hide it, not when we're so adamant about helping with the curse)-- I'm worried about displaying abilities that could only belong to a Necromancer before we're ready (if we're ever ready). As I outlined in my first post, I'm very much for revealing ourselves as a Necromancer (not just as a mage) at any point once we enter the Forest proper, whether before we defeat the curse or after, since it's pretty much required for us to convince him to join "the party"-- and he'd be so incredibly useful as a companion. (I actually wanted Elana to join too
That said, you may be right about being able to pass off our ability to see Necromantic Energy as the ability to see Vitality. It allows us to cast a few spells without incurring suspicion while only being a little more risky, so there's no more reason to forgo it than there is for my suggestion. Matter of taste, I suppose-- I'd rather not directly lie to Eko, not when he's so obviously being presented as a potential companion (to put it meta-wise). Suggesting that he serve as a kind of lookout with an Alarm-triggered ward doesn't require lying, unlike passing ourselves off as a Life mage.
As for the method of Alarm-warding, if we can successfully pull off the Life mage deception, it doesn't really matter which one we choose, so I'm all for it either way. Though, if the stick approach is viable, it might be considered the Order equivalent of our Necromantic experimentation and give him a little xp, heh. Also, the more I think about it, the more I'm realizing how useful a Minor Abjuration Alarm grenade would be... I'm almost tempted to call it OP.
((I've been playing the Socratic equivalent of Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney the entire time I've been writing these things; I think it's starting to show))
Post by: Grek on August 24, 2013, 09:14:18 pm
Post by: Harbingerjm on August 25, 2013, 03:42:04 am
Also, uneducated Life mage? We already know that leaving a mage uneducated can have some disastrous consequences; Eko would surely know that as well. While fairly logical, there's no reason that he'd know that See Vitality is a common spell among Life Mages and then subsequently assume that we're a novice Life Mage-- he would at least ask us to explain ourselves. After all, any explanation for why we hid our status as mages won't mesh well with our determination to help with Aloclesno.IIRC, pretty much all of the elves learn at least a few basic spells, See Vitality among them. Hell, even we can cast it, and that's with the cross-school learning barrier.
Post by: GlyphGryph on August 25, 2013, 08:36:21 am
It would be great to set up an Alarm ward before luring out the creatures - We should at least be able to tell if they set off the alarm.
Post by: Deep Waters on August 25, 2013, 08:54:15 am
Also, uneducated Life mage? We already know that leaving a mage uneducated can have some disastrous consequences; Eko would surely know that as well. While fairly logical, there's no reason that he'd know that See Vitality is a common spell among Life Mages and then subsequently assume that we're a novice Life Mage-- he would at least ask us to explain ourselves. After all, any explanation for why we hid our status as mages won't mesh well with our determination to help with Aloclesno.IIRC, pretty much all of the elves learn at least a few basic spells, See Vitality among them. Hell, even we can cast it, and that's with the cross-school learning barrier.
I believe that Sense Vitality is the spell all elves learn, not See Vitality. Sense Vitality is a general spell. Besides, See Vitality is a necromantic spell for us. Thus, it's the spell that's cross-school, not us. Eko also won't necessarily know that all elves learn magic to some extent, either-- though it is a potential excuse.
Hm... I wonder if the reason the Order mages haven't found the creatures yet is because they were looking for undead and the creatures... aren't...
It would be great to set up an Alarm ward before luring out the creatures - We should at least be able to tell if they set off the alarm.
That's... an interesting possibility, actually. I'm not sure what else they could be, though-- I can't imagine what it could be animated from if it's a golem, and we don't know enough to suggest anything else. Furthermore, I don't believe we actually know how divination works in that context-- would they attempt to be looking for Undead, or Necromantic Ener-... oh. Ouch. It would be so bad if divinations did the latter, in the context of my last post. Not really much we can do if it does, though-- there's no logical reason to ask Eko not to cast any divinations.
Post by: Harbingerjm on August 25, 2013, 09:09:22 am
Yes, that was a mix-up of names on my end, but it changes precisely nothing about my point. IIRC we already told Eko what we learned by it earlier, so he should already know we can cast it.Also, uneducated Life mage? We already know that leaving a mage uneducated can have some disastrous consequences; Eko would surely know that as well. While fairly logical, there's no reason that he'd know that See Vitality is a common spell among Life Mages and then subsequently assume that we're a novice Life Mage-- he would at least ask us to explain ourselves. After all, any explanation for why we hid our status as mages won't mesh well with our determination to help with Aloclesno.IIRC, pretty much all of the elves learn at least a few basic spells, See Vitality among them. Hell, even we can cast it, and that's with the cross-school learning barrier.
I believe that Sense Vitality is the spell all elves learn, not See Vitality. Sense Vitality is a general spell. Besides, See Vitality is a necromantic spell for us. Thus, it's the spell that's cross-school, not us. Eko also won't necessarily know that all elves learn magic to some extent, either-- though it is a potential excuse.
Alternatively, they might have missed it because "Detect Undead- X MP - Detects the presence of zombies animated by a Necromancer" is rather specific wording. Possibly too specific...Hm... I wonder if the reason the Order mages haven't found the creatures yet is because they were looking for undead and the creatures... aren't...That's... an interesting possibility, actually. I'm not sure what else they could be, though-- I can't imagine what it could be animated from if it's a golem, and we don't know enough to suggest anything else. Furthermore, I don't believe we actually know how divination works in that context-- would they attempt to be looking for Undead, or Necromantic Ener-... oh. Ouch. It would be so bad if divinations did the latter, in the context of my last post. Not really much we can do if it does, though-- there's no logical reason to ask Eko not to cast any divinations.
It would be great to set up an Alarm ward before luring out the creatures - We should at least be able to tell if they set off the alarm.
And we have a perfectly logical explanation, we already know our spell works but have no reason to believe his does, he needs his mana for wards, and the creature in the forest was made to deal with an army from the Empire of Order after the Elves had been defeated- it may well have counter-measures against Order spells, or an ability to detect and avoid them, but there would be no reason to give it the equivalent against Life.
Post by: GlyphGryph on August 25, 2013, 12:26:12 pm
Also theres still the very realy possibility that these things were somehow the souls of the children and not the cause of their condition - we need to be ready for that possbility. We know we can read the thoughts and memories of necromantic beings now so our primary goal is lure these things out and do... that to them I think. Learn about them anyway. I strongly suspect they are just a symptom rather than the cause... Which mayy be prolematic to us since the cause could still sneak up on us.
I wonder... necromantic energy but blocked by obstacles... doesnt seem to effect plants and animals... leaves the body alive but mindles...
We KNOW necromancy supports sliding a persons mind into another being. Weve done it plenty of times to our creations. What if weve been thinking about this all wrong? What if we arent looking for a ghost but an animal, and the curse doesnt kill people it just moves their consciousness to a different body?
We also know Necromancers have some sort of dream power or consciousness projection - maybe they have some general mind control and manipulation powers on top of it?
Post by: thoushaltcallmelars on August 28, 2013, 02:16:09 pm
Of course, this is really just me PTWing, but I didn't want to just say "PTW" and be done - that accomplishes nothing.
Post by: Travisplo on August 29, 2013, 08:54:40 pm
Post by: Travisplo on September 10, 2013, 10:27:45 pm
Post by: wer6 on September 13, 2013, 02:34:37 pm
Post by: Angle on September 13, 2013, 02:35:28 pm
Post by: Travisplo on September 19, 2013, 10:29:19 pm
Post by: Angle on September 19, 2013, 10:54:57 pm
Post by: Travisplo on September 19, 2013, 11:15:20 pm
Post by: speedyth on September 20, 2013, 09:40:49 am
Post by: monk12 on September 20, 2013, 11:23:19 pm
Spoiler: Buncha Suggestions (click to show/hide)
Eko steps forward, seeming to feel the air in front of his face. "Well, the ward is just as I left it. No worries there. What do we do now?"
Omo looks at you questioningly. "Do we go in?"
"Yeah." You nod decisively. "Can you find the clearing where we found the children? We can use that as a base camp, if Eko wards it."
Omo grins. "Can I find a random forest clearing I've visited once before in the dark of night? Of course! Who do you think I am?"
"Good. Eko, can you protect us with a mobile ward on our way there?"
"I can, but you'll have to stay close to me to remain within the ward's influence. You should be fine if you do not stray more than ten feet. How far is this clearing?" Eko asks.
Omo scratches his chin. "It isn't too far off; an hour's walk, maybe two."
Eko nods absently, rummaging through his pack for his chalks. Pulling out a nub of yellow chalk, he begins muttering to himself as he traces odd patterns on his hands. Omo watches incredulously as Eko pulls back his sleeves to draw on his arms, then pulls up his robe to scrawl on his belly. You watch with interest; not from any particular desire to see Eko's stomach (which is rather chubby and distressingly hairy,) but because you want to see what Order Magic looks like.
Unfortunately, this spell just looks like a crazy person rubbing himself with a piece of chalk. Though the patterns are quite intricate, full of square shapes and right angles, they don't look like anything special. After drawing on every body part Eko can easily reach, he spends a few minutes with his eyes closed, still murmuring incomprehensibly to himself. With a sigh, he opens his eyes and nods.
"There. One Minor Ward against Necromancy, ready to go. As I said, stay close, and you'll be protected as well as I am."
"Well, if your spell is ready, there's no need to hang out on the edge of the forest. Lead the way, Omo!"
Omo leads you once more under the leaves of Aloclesno. The thick forest is much less oppressive in the daytime, though it is still rather gloomy. Perhaps the most striking difference is the noise; at night, the forest seemed unnaturally quiet, but by day the familiar chirping of birds and drone of insects fills the forest. Leaves rustle as a squirrel jumps to a smaller branch. Somewhere in the distance, a crow caws raucously.
However, even the usual noises of forest life are drowned out by the tramping of Eko Cleanvise.
Omo throws up his arms as yet another dead branch cracks beneath Eko's feet. "Burn me to ash, but are you going to step on every twig in this forest, Eko? Because you're making a good start!"
"Well excuse me for getting an education instead of playing in the woods all my life." Eko grumbles. "Not everybody can ignore little things like calendars and souls in favor of moving like deer. Never did like forests; they're far too disorganized."
Omo snorts. "All I'm saying is that you're making enough noise to wake the dead."
"That's the plan, right? We'll rouse that Necromantic monster from whatever haven it hides in, and then deal with it once and for all."
You wince as Eko shuffles through a pile of dead leaves. "Well, speaking of that; from what you said about Kiros's expedition, it seems like the wards kept the monster from finding him."
Eko nods. "That is quite likely, yes."
"Is it possible that the wards also kept him from finding the monster?"
Eko shakes his head. "No, that's not how the wards work. The Divinations are Order magic, and... they reach out past the wards, would be the easiest way to explain it. The wards would prevent Necromantic magic from entering- the stronger wards, anyway- but none of them would prevent Order magic from flowing out to find signs of Necromancy."
"Hm. Well, to change the subject slightly, I'm interested to know what kinds of tricks you can do with your Alarm spell."
Eko chuckles, twigs snapping beneath his feet. "Yes, that's quite a devious little spell. Some Wizards say the applications of Alarm are a school unto themselves. People have made some very clever things with Alarm; accurate timekeepers, intricate traps... one Wizard made a series of Alarms and Divinations that played a song from the sounds of different places."
"Really? Could you, say, set an Alarm to trigger a Ward, or an Abjuration if we do something simple like break a stick?"
Omo snorts. "He's broken enough sticks, if you ask me."
Eko gives Omo a sour look before shaking his head. "I know what you're thinking, but things are a little more complicated than that. I'd still have to prepare a Ward the same as usual, so it would only work if you plan to lure this creature somewhere specific that I can prepare beforehand. And Equations and Divinations are even trickier, because they are not normally prepared for as Wards are. To tie one of those spells to an Alarm, I'd have to simulate the conditions for casting them within the Alarm itself, in addition to the provisions that allow the spell to be held in suspension, which tends to make the spell both more expensive and more unstable."
"So... you can't do it?"
Eko sighs. "I can try, but it's not easy. I can only tie one spell to an Alarm, and it will cost more Mana than casting the spells separately would. Centering a ward on a person, or casting a Divination or Abjuration would likely consume my entire mana pool. I certainly shouldn't try right now, if you want a ward at this clearing of yours."
"Hm. Alright. I wish you had mentioned that when you were describing the spell earlier."
"Forgive me for not relating my lifetime of magical studies on the walk here." Eko says dryly.
"Actually..." You reply, "I had a random thought; do you know if mages of different Faiths can combine their spells? Life and Order, or Water and Earth, or something?"
"That is an odd question." Eko says with a grin. "I don't know of any spells that absolutely require the presence of multiple Faiths. Of course, there are many spells which work well with those from other Faiths, merely by virtue of their effects. Legends tell of mythical weapons and armor forged by the combined efforts of Dwarven Earth Magicians and Fire Giant Invokers, for example, and occasionally mages of other Faiths will study with the Wizards to use their Divinations to aid their own research."
"Interesting. Do you know-"
"Hey." Omo interrupts. "We're here."
The clearing looks no different in the light of day than when you first saw it; the ground is flat and covered with tall grass and leaves, and two young trees near the center of the clearing stretch toward the midday sun. At a nod from you, Eko begins walking around the clearing, preparing to enclose the entire area in a Minor Ward. You cast See Vitality, and at your urging Omo casts Sense Vitality.
You take a moment to look at Omo and Eko with your newly-enhanced vision. As far as you can tell, the Vitality network within them moves just like that of Ado Drunkenstumbles back at the Temple, except they aren't wounded. You don't see anything new, and while every individual you've looked at with this spell has had a unique Vitality system (Omo definitely has longer ears, among other things,) you don't notice any major differences between Omo and Eko. Of course, all this confirms is that something was very wrong with the Vitality of the victims of Aloclesno.
Examining the rest of the clearing reveals nothing out of the ordinary; the young trees are healthy saplings, the grass is basically tiny useless tubes of Vitality, and the surrounding trees all appear to be in good shape despite their unfriendly appearance. While Eko works on his ward, you and Omo take a quick circuit just outside the clearing.
"So what exactly are we looking for?" Omo asks, stepping over a particularly large root.
"I don't know." You shrug. "Anything out of the normal, I guess. Have you seen any larger animals in here?"
"Not with that boar you brought along smashing through the brush." Omo says, nodding toward Eko. "But we were following a game trail most of the way here, so there must be some kind of larger wildlife in here. Probably deer."
"Huh. So if there's some horrible Necromantic monster in here, why does it only target people, and not the other living things?"
"You tell me, you're the... you know." Omo shrugs uncomfortably. "Speaking of that, what did you bring Eko along for? I thought we were keeping this kind of stuff on the down low."
"He's got some useful skills. And besides, I think if we prove our good nature to him, he won't try to kill me. He seems like a reasonable guy."
"Yeah, sure. Reasonable. Just a drunk and a liar."
"That seems a little harsh." You say, frowning. "What have you got against Eko?"
"Eh, nothing, really." Omo shrugs, bending to inspect a mossy rock. "I'm just saying, he's not the most holy of priests. He's gonna let those kids die if we can't solve this thing, remember."
"That's their law; it's weird and wrong, but that's how it is. And he's not just letting them die; he's out here with us, right?"
"Yeah, yeah." Omo says, looking around. "Looks like Eko is done back at the camp; anything else you wanted to talk about out here?"
"Nothing that can't wait, I think."
You've seen no trace of the monster of Aloclesno; not surprising, since you've been out from under the protection of Eko's ward for less than ten minutes. You rejoin the portly priest in the clearing.
"So this is where the kids fell, huh." Eko says, looking around. "Well, this area is warded off, now. It'll be up for about a week, longer if I renew it. What should we do now?"
It's not quite midday, and you still possess most of your mana. Eko is running low, though he still enjoys two more hours of protection from his mobile ward. What next?
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Your Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Eko Cleanvise (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Eko's Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Author's Notes (click to show/hide)
Post by: Angle on September 20, 2013, 11:38:25 pm
Then we should either go out personally and look, or have Eko use a detect undead with all of his remaining mana. Also, ask him to elaborate about those people of other faiths learning order divinations. If we don't have him spend all of his remaining mana, we should probably tell him that we're a necromancer, or make up a story to explain how we have the abilities we have. It would be really bad if we found the thing, subdued it, then had Eko freak out and attack us. If he's out of mana, that shouldn't be too much a problem, so long as we keep enough space between us to prevent him physically attacking us.
Post by: Travisplo on September 20, 2013, 11:41:16 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on September 21, 2013, 08:29:35 am
I'm not so sure now is the right time to reveal ourselves.
"Damn humans. Why can't they learn to walk like deers?" That made me laugh. Omo is fun.
Post by: kahn1234 on September 21, 2013, 04:54:59 pm
Two tree saplings which weren't there before appear right after two kids get their souls apparently sucked out by a Necromantic monster.
Bring this up with Eko, and maybe try to use our powers and ask Eko to use his to try and see if there is anything strange about the saplings.
Post by: RAM on September 21, 2013, 05:39:22 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on September 21, 2013, 06:11:36 pm
If we had that golem it would be a good way to spend time that would normally be wasted: You're bored? Just merge your consciousness with the golem and take a look around. Or use it to watch where you're walking while you read a book. We can start with something small and weak, like a small bird made out of sticks, leaves, leather and rope with no brain and only simple muscles and eyes. And by pouring more vitality to it, adding upgraded or larger parts and refining its vitality network to make it smarter, stronger and overall more capable we might end up with a loyal companion, something like a giant winged robo-pet.
@kahn 1234: Actually, the trees were there when we found the clearing. But you're right, it might be worth looking into it.
Post by: speedyth on September 22, 2013, 12:59:35 pm
I like the way you think. Maybe the necromantic monster turns the pulsing vitality of a living soul into a tree. hmmm....
Post by: Parisbre56 on September 22, 2013, 02:09:06 pm
Post by: javierpwn on September 22, 2013, 05:44:42 pm
Now, if we were to first kill them off first, that would be something entirely different.
Post by: Travisplo on September 22, 2013, 05:52:38 pm
Providing Living people with upgrades sounds like Life magic though.No, I believe he said something like necromancy was the modification of vitality in this universe.
Now, if we were to first kill them off first, that would be something entirely different.
Post by: RAM on September 22, 2013, 07:10:20 pm
In this setting necromancy and Life magic are evidently manipulating the same thing, but appear to be doing so differently. One assumes that Life magic maintains and bolsters vitality and returns things to their natural state. Death magic seems to alter, transfer, or inhibit vitality. One assumes that Life magic is more potent, but works to a template, while Death magic is highly versatile, but you need to do everything manually... We have already demonstrated that Death magic can be used to heal by transferring vitality from one subject to another, although presumably Life magic doesn't need a donor, so maybe Life magic concerns the creation of vitality...
Post by: Harbingerjm on September 22, 2013, 08:10:36 pm
But it is interesting to note that societies powered by negative energy seem to enjoy longer lives, better health, and a reduced need for sustenance...It's a shame about the frequent loss of much of the individual's mind.
In this setting necromancy and Life magic are evidently manipulating the same thing, but appear to be doing so differently. One assumes that Life magic maintains and bolsters vitality and returns things to their natural state. Death magic seems to alter, transfer, or inhibit vitality. One assumes that Life magic is more potent, but works to a template, while Death magic is highly versatile, but you need to do everything manually... We have already demonstrated that Death magic can be used to heal by transferring vitality from one subject to another, although presumably Life magic doesn't need a donor, so maybe Life magic concerns the creation of vitality...Or at least the transformation of mana into vitality. I wonder, does this universe obey some (slightly expanded) version of the conservation of energy?
Post by: Travisplo on October 07, 2013, 08:49:26 pm
Post by: Angle on October 08, 2013, 12:21:56 am
Updatessss...
Post by: Travisplo on October 24, 2013, 07:11:38 pm
Post by: wer6 on October 24, 2013, 08:59:14 pm
Post by: Angle on October 24, 2013, 09:00:07 pm
Post by: wer6 on October 24, 2013, 09:01:03 pm
Post by: Angle on October 24, 2013, 09:05:16 pm
Post by: monk12 on October 24, 2013, 11:31:59 pm
I think we went for almost a year once...
Oh shush, April 16th to October 7th was only 5 months, 22 days (or 25 weeks, or 175 days, or 4200 hours, or 252k minutes, or 15120000 seconds or you get the picture.) Not even six months!
Of course, a month hiatus is still worth an explanation; apart from general busyness, I've been taking part in the DC:SS tournament (ends Sunday) and that will transition pretty quickly into NaNoWriMo next month. In other words, no, this isn't dead, but it probably won't see an update until sometime in December, depending on how things go.
Post by: Angle on October 24, 2013, 11:37:05 pm
This is, of course, your project, and you can opt out whenever you wish. That said, I have enjoyed it greatly, and look forward t it continuing. Also, DC:SS? Whuzzat?
Edit: Oh, Dungeon crawl: Stone Soup. I get it. I never did get any good at that game...
Post by: Travisplo on October 24, 2013, 11:42:07 pm
Maybe just change the thread title to reflect this then?I think we went for almost a year once...
Oh shush, April 16th to October 7th was only 5 months, 22 days (or 25 weeks, or 175 days, or 4200 hours, or 252k minutes, or 15120000 seconds or you get the picture.) Not even six months!
Of course, a month hiatus is still worth an explanation; apart from general busyness, I've been taking part in the DC:SS tournament (ends Sunday) and that will transition pretty quickly into NaNoWriMo next month. In other words, no, this isn't dead, but it probably won't see an update until sometime in December, depending on how things go.
Post by: Descan on October 25, 2013, 12:08:05 pm
Also, I don't know about anyone else, but bumping it is... not good. Makes me think there's an update. If you want an explanation for a hiatus, post about that, don't just say "lolbump", even if you put it in a poem. A poetic bump is still a bump.
Post by: Cellmonk on October 25, 2013, 03:31:27 pm
The only time I would call this dead is when it's been declared dead by the host.
Also, I don't know about anyone else, but bumping it is... not good. Makes me think there's an update. If you want an explanation for a hiatus, post about that, don't just say "lolbump", even if you put it in a poem. A poetic bump is still a bump.
Lolbump
Once there was a lolbump
Not sure what it could trump.
But then it did
Who'm I to kid?
The lolbump trumped the bump.
Post by: Travisplo on December 07, 2013, 01:23:18 am
Post by: Inithis on January 08, 2014, 08:30:11 am
Post by: Yourmaster on January 08, 2014, 03:40:24 pm
Post by: Cellmonk on January 09, 2014, 12:37:20 pm
It has had rather long periods of inactivity in the past, so I still have hope.
Post by: Baffler on January 09, 2014, 09:17:34 pm
Post by: speedyth on January 10, 2014, 11:14:44 am
Post by: Angle on January 10, 2014, 02:21:58 pm
Post by: Ninjamaster1991 on January 26, 2014, 06:43:14 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: wer6 on January 26, 2014, 08:26:15 pm
Post by: Baffler on January 26, 2014, 08:40:52 pm
You are an evil, evil person.
Post by: Ninjamaster1991 on January 26, 2014, 09:06:19 pm
Post by: RAM on January 27, 2014, 07:22:07 pm
Post by: Travisplo on January 31, 2014, 10:40:51 pm
Post by: Angle on January 31, 2014, 11:39:06 pm
Post by: Ninjamaster1991 on February 07, 2014, 10:58:38 pm
we should probably leave at least a week between bumps, if not more.
What 'choo gunna do now, copper?
Post by: Angle on February 08, 2014, 05:42:13 pm
Post by: Baffler on February 08, 2014, 06:49:57 pm
Post by: Ninjamaster1991 on February 08, 2014, 08:34:21 pm
Dammit, stop doing that! One can only take so much false hope.
I exist only to crush the souls of people like you.
Post by: Ninjamaster1991 on March 10, 2014, 10:56:38 am
H̻̠e̦͕̯ ̶͔͙̞̜̞w͍͖̰h͕̠̦̯͘o̳̗̙̪̞ ̟̰͖͡g̛̯̖͈͍̖͚i̻̬̹̹͜v̟͍̣̣͈̲̻e̡̞̭̣s͚͍̲̯ ̛̬̜̣͚gŗe̮̝̫͚͕̲͕͞at͝ ̦͕̪͟h̟̦̠̼̗̭ọ̵̠̯͉p͙͓̀e͓̱͢
O̪̣̞͢͜ńͅl̹͚̞̮y̝̫͉̭̯ ̢͎̜̯̮̙͓̣͠ͅt͘̕҉̹̝̩͍o̴̳͈̹͎̻̣̼ ̧̼̳̖̼̠͜͡ͅd̶̫̭̟a̴̢͓̞̩̞s͍̮h̢̙̖̠͙̖̯͈ ̶̛̰̼̼̘i̶͈̼̙̯t̡̲͇̙̥͓͝ͅͅ ̴̙͢t͕͍̱͈͝ơ͏̷͉͔͕̖͚͖ͅ ͏͖̹̥͞p̧̪̹̠͕͕̮͟͟į͔̩̠͍͖̕ͅe̹͈͜͠c̩͞e̪̬̲̯s͡͏̺̯̬̱͉̼̭̱ͅ
H̨̭̰̤͈̫͕̤́̀͟e̡͏̺͔̺̣̖̰̳̞̹̤̟̝̬̼̼̻͉ͅ ̧̛̭̣̣̗̦̙͖͍͕̩̣͎ͅi͏̶̧̻̬̹̮̥̬͈̮̪͍̤̟̦ͅs̛͎͎̩͉͉͎̗͜͡ ̶̼͔͎̤̯̩́d̴̢̡̟̘̥̳͍͖͉͠è̴̯̻̺͚͇̞̫̼̲͚̫̳̼̩͕̀͡s̴̨̜͓̦̯̣̗̗̀t̷̡̛͙͖͓̞̰̯r̶̷̸͏̬̯̖̬̠̹̱̤̹̝̜͖͙̫͇͈ͅo̵̢̪͚̗̖̮̤͓͓͘͠y̨̧̕҉̙͙̭̯̹̹͎̞̪̞̫̹̪̺̪͎̮̦̥͝e͏̸̗̭̞͉̝̼̦͈̠̺͖̝̭̥͓̫̹̕r̸͞҉̻̮̳̠͖̙͈̩͈̯̯̜̪͜ͅ ̠̺͕͓̝͖̖̪̟̖̗̗͇͜͞͡ͅò̢̧̗̹̱̻̖̭̯̘͕̥͢͜f̷͉͖̰̗͢ͅ ̵̢̢̟̦̬͇͍̗̺̺͞ͅą̴̡̗̝̤̙̭̗̣͔̳̭̙͜ͅl͕͎̬̣͎͇̥͝͡l̵҉̸͓̱̪̙͇̟̰̙̜͚̭̗̫̖̱ ̵̮̜̳̹̗͙͍̝̳̹̻̹̝̜̖̞͠͝͝ț͇̜̭̙̀͠h̷̨̺̘͔͓̯͎̖̩̥̹̭̪̮͖̀͝͞i̵̷̬̱̦̦̬͜͟͢n̢̮͇̱̗̕g͟͏̤̥̱͉̰͖̗̰͠s̶̝͇͚̺͈͔͕̫̻̝͚͘͟͠ͅ
H̷͕̥̠̬̣͈̺̯͔̤͌͐ͫͧ͌ͮ̽̾̃͒̇͗̓̄̀͢ę̵̫͓̻͍̳͖͈̟̝̪̘̯̗͈̣̟̔́̆̿͊̉̅̈́͆̀͑̈ͫ̉͠ ̢̒̈́͑ͪ̒̈́̓̊͂͏̵̺̼̲͉̭̦̟͚̲́ĩ̡̛̼͉̠͉̩̯͔͍͙ͮ͛̂̆̾ͪ̊̽ͥ̐́ͪ̊̚͘͠ͅs̵͍̬̣̮̾ͧͯ͒̈̅̅̉̊͌͗͒̌̎̊̉ͮ͛͢ ͕̙̘̜̣̫͙͚̩͓̭̫͇̪̲̪̙͇̓ͣͫ̑̋ͨ̑͒ͣ́̾ͥͪ̎̍̌ͩ̀͞͝+̴̺̩̳͎͊ͧ̓̉̋ͯ͋ͭ͊ͩ̆̍ͤ͗̊̏̚̕̕͝͞|̢͕͈̤̖̻͖̫͙̬͉̪̱̲̙̠̞̟̬̗̽̏̋̌ͪ́͢͢͟-̤̭͎̖̱͈ͪ̓̒́̈́̎ͩ̊̒ͭ́̚͜͝|̛̲͚͇̪͉͇̝̰̣̪̗̑ͨ̏̉ͦ̈̂͗ͦ́̋̽͊ͣ̀́͠͝ͅ=̶̛̛̞͇͙̭ͤͫ̅̀͌̏͗ͅ ̡̹̯̘͎̠̲̭͕̞̭̟͖͉͓̦͖̬̪̱̆ͩ̄̎̋͐ͧͥͥ̓̍̅̌͋̕F̢̛̪̯̫̫̥͕̹̪̥̮̪̝ͥͬ̏ͬͬͦ̄̐̌̀̊̓͊͆̀ͩ̍̆̓͜͡ͅͅA̵̍̈́̒ͨͨ̑̿͐ͪ͑҉̠̭̼͓̼͇͖̠̪͢ͅ|̴̸͚̲͍̬͙̭̗̝̹̬̦͖̟͍̖͇͌̽ͪ̀͝͠_̸̫̥̩̯̠͈̯̪̳͇̣̘͎̫̇̓ͦ̋͋̋́̓̐̇̌ͩ̆ͪ̚͟͝ͅ5̵͇̭̩̻̺͇̖̝͙͉̠͖͉̬̫̣̣̹̄ͮ̔̎̓ͥͬͩ̈́̿͘͢͟͞|̸͍̮̖̬͖̇̊ͬ̆ͨͨͩͮ͘͝=̵̧͖̰̞̮̣̤͓͕̭̉͗̆͐͆̆̎͑̊͑̌͑̇͘̕ͅ ̷̶̪̲̬̥̦͉͔̮̯͎̮̬̗̭̠̥͇͇̭̽͊̈́ͮ͊̆͛̈́̓ͥ͗ͬ̽͌̎̇̊͒̕͟͞3͐̃̔͏̷̸̛̞̗̮̯͢ͅR͉̫̻͔̳͔̮̫̭̹̞̻̣̅͋͛̀̓ͫ̾̊ͪͫ̂ͪ̄̓̄͂̒͘͞!̵̨̛̛̱͉̱̥̔͌̌̾ͪ͝ͅ|̴̶̡̐̈́ͩͣ͂ͧͫ̐́̓͢҉̭̝̣͉\̷̋̄̽͋ͧ̌̽̋̽̎̓̇͑ͩ̕҉̵͖̠͍̲͕̭̼͙|́ͭ̀̇̌ͨ͗̾̉ͭ̌҉͙̲͙̺̺͕͓̺̬͖̖͙̹̻̯̗̹͢G̶͕͔̺̗̟͙͓͕̳̼̲̮̙̦̞̏̏̆ͨ͒̇̚͡ͅE̸̛͊̓̾̅ͧͫ̐̽̆͋҉̵͕͓̤͓͕̣̮̖̩̱̯̀ͅR͍̗͔͍̮͉̼͈̺͎̬͖̪̻̦̼͗ͦ̉̔ͬͯͦ̋̕
Post by: Parisbre56 on March 10, 2014, 12:20:51 pm
And who the hell is " ΄+΄|-|= ΄F΄A΄|_5|= 3R!|\|GER "?
Post by: Ninjamaster1991 on March 10, 2014, 01:32:49 pm
Post by: Descan on March 10, 2014, 02:08:41 pm
Post by: 3man75 on March 10, 2014, 02:35:37 pm
Post by: RAM on March 10, 2014, 02:54:48 pm
Post by: Cellmonk on March 11, 2014, 04:34:55 am
Post by: joemoben on March 12, 2014, 12:51:08 am
Post by: Zavvnao on March 12, 2014, 04:23:55 pm
I think there is too much of his check-up spam that the story may be gone by now anyway.
Post by: Shadestyle on May 09, 2014, 03:47:33 pm
Post by: ~Neri on May 09, 2014, 03:53:21 pm
Post by: 3man75 on May 09, 2014, 04:11:07 pm
I personally have a loving for necros since playing guild wars 2 and would love a suggestion game where we can be a little piddling commanding the undead to destroy elf communes, goblin tours, dwarven super fortresses, and human capital's across an entire continent later being named emperor....Also this type of st Disney exist.
((Hint hint someone reading this, this could be a great game))
Post by: Descan on May 09, 2014, 04:14:49 pm
Post by: ~Neri on May 09, 2014, 04:17:25 pm
Tis dead though...maybe someone else will make their own story.I've been considering starting one, I have extra time on my hands and I have been tossing around a few ideas for a storyline.
I personally have a loving for necros since playing guild wars 2 and would love a suggestion game where we can be a little piddling commanding the undead to destroy elf communes, goblin tours, dwarven super fortresses, and human capital's across an entire continent later being named emperor....Also this type of st Disney exist.
((Hint hint someone reading this, this could be a great game))
I might start one up in a week or two.
Post by: GlyphGryph on May 09, 2014, 04:35:08 pm
Post by: 3man75 on May 09, 2014, 04:36:10 pm
Good luck and if I can support you any way possible, please don't hesitate to ask...trap.Tis dead though...maybe someone else will make their own story.I've been considering starting one, I have extra time on my hands and I have been tossing around a few ideas for a storyline.
I personally have a loving for necros since playing guild wars 2 and would love a suggestion game where we can be a little piddling commanding the undead to destroy elf communes, goblin tours, dwarven super fortresses, and human capital's across an entire continent later being named emperor....Also this type of st Disney exist.
((Hint hint someone reading this, this could be a great game))
I might start one up in a week or two.
Post by: RAM on May 09, 2014, 04:55:13 pm
Post by: Baffler on September 21, 2014, 12:09:19 am
Post by: Andres on September 21, 2014, 03:24:41 am
I am so sorry. I was reminded of this thing's existence, and...Andres the Human has begun work on a book: On the Ethics and Irony of Necroposting on a Thread Where the Subject of the Thread is About Necromancy or Necromancers or a Necromancer
Post by: Ninjamaster1991 on September 21, 2014, 07:47:07 am
Well, I'm ~80% sure there have been worse necroposts in this thread alone.I am so sorry. I was reminded of this thing's existence, and...Andres the Human has begun work on a book: On the Ethics and Irony of Necroposting on a Thread Where the Subject of the Thread is About Necromancy or Necromancers or a Necromancer
So I vote Not Guilty.
Post by: RAM on September 21, 2014, 04:20:00 pm
But since the party had already started without me...
Post by: RAM on November 13, 2014, 03:10:58 pm
This seems sensible.we should probably leave at least a week between bumps, if not more.
Post by: Yourmaster on November 13, 2014, 03:27:23 pm
Post by: Cellmonk on November 26, 2014, 06:04:57 pm
It's dead! It's dead!I think it can still be saved! Don't stop CPR!
Post by: Zavvnao on December 09, 2014, 04:30:18 pm
Post by: Angle on December 09, 2014, 04:33:43 pm
DUN DUN DUN!
Post by: Baffler on December 09, 2014, 11:41:26 pm
It saddens me, but I think it's dead for good. Though almost 5 pages of bumps over more than a year is certainly a pretty strong testament to its quality.
Post by: RAM on March 02, 2015, 05:36:59 pm
Post by: ~Neri on March 02, 2015, 05:46:10 pm
Post by: Angle on March 02, 2015, 05:55:41 pm
Post by: Andres on March 02, 2015, 06:12:37 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on March 02, 2015, 06:23:09 pm
Post by: Felius on March 06, 2015, 03:06:40 pm
Post by: monk12 on April 01, 2015, 10:56:03 am
See, I've always wanted to do an ISG, and I figure I've already got the hard stuff like rules and a setting in place here, so maybe I could reboot the story to help me develop as an artist. I know my art is going to be pretty rough to start out with, like how my writing was way back when, but I think if I tough it out and put some effort in then I can get better. Maybe not as good as freeformschooler or Solifuge or anyone with real talent like that, but self-improvement is the name of the game, right?
So yeah.
(http://tnypic.net/images/2015/04/01/461a76240b102129ecc89d85dc54bebc.png)
(http://tnypic.net/images/2015/04/01/864a7336fb236f049aa15b2030aa539e.png)
(http://tnypic.net/images/2015/04/01/864a7336fb236f049aa15b2030aa539e.png)
You are Faile, a young unattached elven maiden who has recently manifested Necromantic powers. You see here a zombie fish, some ants, a pool of water, and some trees. You can use your spell and your inventory to solve puzzles and navigate the world. You can unlock new spells by finding spellbooks hidden in the environment, so check everywhere!
What do you do?
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on April 01, 2015, 11:15:17 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 01, 2015, 11:18:37 am
Also, the current date is probably very important. Is it Spring?
Post by: ~Neri on April 01, 2015, 11:29:38 am
Post by: monk12 on April 01, 2015, 11:35:52 am
(http://tnypic.net/images/2015/04/01/864a7336fb236f049aa15b2030aa539e.png)
You are alone except for the fish. Yes, it's spring, can't you tell?
(http://tnypic.net/images/2015/04/01/39216dd33f76d232772fd943b745c4f1.png)
Your stomach proves difficult to open but you check for a Spellbook anyway. Nope, nothing.
(http://tnypic.net/images/2015/04/01/4a071120b1b41387961c5e7fd5812fc0.png)
You eat the zombie fish. Your Hunger stat goes up. Your Inventory stat goes down.
What time of day is it? Are there people around that could see our Faile?
Also, the current date is probably very important. Is it Spring?
You are alone except for the fish. Yes, it's spring, can't you tell?
LETS RIP OPEN OUR STOMACH AND LOOK FOR A SPELL BOOK!
(http://tnypic.net/images/2015/04/01/39216dd33f76d232772fd943b745c4f1.png)
Your stomach proves difficult to open but you check for a Spellbook anyway. Nope, nothing.
(http://tnypic.net/images/2015/04/01/4a071120b1b41387961c5e7fd5812fc0.png)
You eat the zombie fish. Your Hunger stat goes up. Your Inventory stat goes down.
Post by: ~Neri on April 01, 2015, 02:25:14 pm
Investigate white stuff on ground.
Post by: Deep Waters on April 01, 2015, 02:58:09 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
>Try to find the ants' colony so you can raise a zombie ant army with you as their zombie ant queen!
Post by: monk12 on April 01, 2015, 03:19:52 pm
(Not as much of a connection to the character as there used to be. I've always seen images in ISG's as visual assistants rather then tellall for environment and emotions and similar.))
Investigate white stuff on ground.
(http://tnypic.net/images/2015/04/01/4a071120b1b41387961c5e7fd5812fc0.png)
That (Those?) is (are?) merely the remains of the undead fish (fishes?) you have consumed.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
>Try to find the ants' colony so you can raise a zombie ant army with you as their zombie ant queen!
(http://tnypic.net/images/2015/04/01/2777181f0d2d5e3c4507a202273ca405.gif)
The ants are easy to zombify as they are so small and unimportant as to be lifeless anyway- you easily take the place of their queen!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: ~Neri on April 01, 2015, 03:36:18 pm
Post by: RAM on April 01, 2015, 05:16:22 pm
P.S.
So sad that it's gone, so happy that it's back, so conflicted...
Post by: ~Neri on April 01, 2015, 05:39:51 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Yourmaster on April 01, 2015, 05:46:58 pm
Post by: monk12 on April 01, 2015, 06:11:51 pm
Have ants cut down tree.
(http://tnypic.net/images/2015/04/01/dcdd299c0e20648e111611c46b94af4f.jpg)
Your ants destroy the tree handily, creating an easy escape from your current pool.
Follow the stream, but do not cross it...
P.S.
So sad that it's gone, so happy that it's back, so conflicted...
(http://tnypic.net/images/2015/04/02/c6901dc0d368f9c3758c65f7be17ad1a.jpg)
You cross the stream, finding the cliffs that bound Yicelafo. Suddenly, your Necromantic senses begin to tingle! Something is written on the wall!
(http://tnypic.net/images/2015/04/02/d1ac379f21ddc1bc55a7e56b3cbbc95d.gif)
You get the sudden, inexplicable sense that the Creator is a massive jerk. Wait, no, it's an entirely explicable sense. You do not need to look at the calendar- you know what it says.
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 01, 2015, 06:14:17 pm
I can't believe nobody noticed. Even after I commented about how the date was important.
Guess it shows how much people want this back...
Good one monk. I laughed.
Post by: monk12 on April 01, 2015, 06:16:17 pm
Spoiler: And we're back (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Suggestions (click to show/hide)
"So this is where the kids fell, huh." Eko says, looking around the small glade. "Well, this area is warded off, now. It'll be up for about a week, longer if I renew it. What should we do now?"
"Hm." You scratch your head absently. "Well, first things first. Omo, did you notice any tracks that the monster might have left?"
"Nothing conclusive, no." Omo says, shaking his head.
""Nothing conclusive" doesn't mean "nothing."" You say pointedly.
Omo spreads his hands helplessly. "We didn't enter the forest in the exact same place we fled that monster, and that's the only place we saw it. Well, it's the only place you saw it, anyway." Omo shrugs, gesturing at the surrounding forest. "I did notice some faint traces of some creature entering this clearing, but it isn't anything more definite than some recently snapped twigs and disturbed leaves. It could have been the monster, or it could have been some other animal. No clear tracks of any kind, but this deep in the forest that's not too unusual."
"Alright. I suppose it wasn't likely to be that easy. Let's check out those trees." You turn, striding purposefully toward the saplings near the center of the clearing.
"The trees?" Eko echoes questioningly.
"What about the trees?"
You slowly circle the saplings, looking for any distinguishing marks or unusual characteristics. "Isn't it a little strange that when we found two soulless children, we also found a matching pair of young saplings?"
"I guess?" Omo says skeptically. "So what, you think their souls were turned into trees?"
"That seems unlikely." Eko says carefully.
You step back from the trees; from what you can tell, they aren't any different from the surrounding trees, apart from their age and location. "Well, no, not exactly. It just seems like an odd coincidence to me. All the other trees in this forest have been quite old."
"Well, clearings like this one are the only place saplings can get enough sun to compete with the older trees." Omo shrugs, kicking at an exposed root. "Coincidences do happen."
"Just see if I missed anything, alright? Hey, Eko, why don't you try some Order Divinations or something?"
"As you wish." Eko says, bowing slightly. "Is there anything you'd like me to check for specifically?"
"Yeah, why don't you use that spell you used to learn whether the kids still had a soul. Maybe Detect Undead? Whatever you think might help, we won't be doing too much exploring today."
"That would be my Diagnosis spell. It gives a general sense of a person's Vitality. Victims of Aloclesno have a signature weakness in their Vitality echo unlike anything else." Eko begins digging around for his chalks, then pauses, looking up at you. "I have never cast this spell on a tree before."
"Well, cast it on a regular tree, then cast it on a sapling. That way, you'll notice any difference."
"That will use all of my mana." Eko warns.
"That's alright, we'll save our real exploration for tomorrow." You say reassuringly.
Eko nods, readying a piece of white chalk. He walks over to a largish tree just outside the ward, giving it a bemused glance before starting to draw on the trunk. You turn back to Omo, who is running one hand down the trunk of a sapling.
"So, do you notice anything strange about these saplings?" You say, squatting down next to him.
Omo shrugs, standing up. "I'm a Ranger, not a Druid. These trees don't look sick, or... ensorcelled, or anything. Do you notice anything?"
"Well, no." You admit, standing back up. "But if there's one thing I've learned about Necromancy, it's that things aren't always obvious."
"Yeah, well, if there's anything subtle about this tree it eludes my powers of observation. What now?"
You rub your chin thoughtfully. "You go pitch camp- get Eko to help you when he's done with the tree. I'm going to go play with dolls."
"What?" Omo asks in bewilderment, but you're already walking away. Grumbling, he turns to the center of the clearing and begins unfolding his tent.
Nothing on the edge of the clearing indicates that a Ward has been placed here; perhaps Eko does not need his chalks to cast that spell. Stepping into the shade of the trees, you stride away from the clearing, far enough to get a modicum of privacy. You want to spend some time outside the wards to see if your Necromantic powers can sense any sign of the Curse of Aloclesno, and perhaps just as importantly you want to do some experimenting with your powers while your traveling companions are occupied; you sense that Omo still isn't completely at ease with your powers, and of course Eko doesn't know about them at all.
... Sitting on a mossy log, you gather up materials you can find close at hand; your headband, various twigs and vines, dead leaves, that sort of thing. In your mind, you can envision a sort of rustic basket with cloth wings you could animate and cause to fly around. In practice, however, you find yourself creating new and exciting piles of junk. You keep at it doggedly, but it eventually becomes clear that you don't really know what you are doing, you lack the skill to assemble such a creation even if you knew what it was supposed to look like, and the materials you have on hand to make the thing you don't know how to assemble are likely not sufficient to the task. Perhaps at your next opportunity you should enlist the services of a craftsman to make this sort of complicated toy with moving parts; for now, it seems you should stick to simpler things.
Shaking the twigs out of your headband, you sweep your pile of prospective golem ingredients to the forest floor and regard your surroundings. Everything seems peaceful here; the odd sunbeam breaches the forest canopy here and there, but for the most part the only light is a verdant glow filtered through the leaves of the ancient trees. In a way, it reminds you of your Necromantic hideaway back in Yicelafo; of course, this time you aren't the only Necromantic thing lurking here. You have been away from Eko's ward for some time, but you have felt no presence nor sign of the monster you believe to stalk Aloclesno. Perhaps you need to give the Curse of Aloclesno more time to manifest, or perhaps you need to take more aggressive actions.
You shrug to yourself. You did not really expect to resolve this situation this afternoon anyway. Ducking back through the trees, you find the camp mostly settled. Omo has pitched your tent in the center of the clearing, near the young saplings. Technically it sleeps four, but Eko is a large man, and you don't know him very well; tonight could well be cozy. Omo is breathing life into a campfire, while Eko carefully stows his possessions in the tent. After brief discussion, you agree that with Eko's Mana spent it would be wise to camp out for the remainder of the day and start your search for the source of Aloclesno's Curse in the morning. It is a welcome opportunity to rest after the exertions of the past few days, as well as an opening to become better acquainted with your new tentmate.
Eko stretches back, looking up at the bright midafternoon sky visible through the treetops. "You know, if you had told me a week ago that I would now be camping in Aloclesno with a pair of Elves while zombies threaten the village... well, I'd have thought it's time to lay off the Longland Beer."
You arch your eyebrow quizzically. "I thought Sewer Brew was your drink of choice."
Eko sighs. "Longland Beer is a drink for happier times. These days, on my budget, there is a certain quality in quantity." Sitting up, he fixes you with a stern look. "But I do not think you came all the way here to discuss my drinking habits."
"Why not?" Omo asks lazily. "We've got nothing but time to kill."
Eko nods. "Yes. I did not press before, since you were my guests in my Temple, but now that we are out here..." Eko waves vaguely at the trees looming overhead. "I have to ask; what brings a pair of Elves out into this forest in such dark times? Surely it is no coincidence that you seem so confident in your ability to handle the ancient Curse of Aloclesno at the same time the blight of Necromancy threatens the Empire."
You exchange guarded looks with Omo. You do not know that this is the right time to reveal yourself to Eko, but you do not want to lie to him, since it seems likely he will learn the truth sooner or later. "Well... Omo there has trained with the Elven Rangers, and for myself I have a bit of magical ability and the desire to learn more. We both wanted to see some more of the world beyond Yicelafo, and when we heard about the Necromancers we thought to leave the Vale while we could."
Eko lets out a breath. "So the Elves are not coming, then?"
"No, no, I'm sure they'll mobilize against Curo Nightroar." You reply quickly.
"I'm not." Omo says darkly. "If I thought I could see the world in an official capacity, I wouldn't have left."
"Well, there was some debate when we left." You concede. "We made our opinions known, then decided that actions speak louder than words and... here we are."
"So your coming to my village is merely a... coincidence?" Eko says doubtfully.
Omo shrugs nonchalantly. "The Necromancer is squatting on the main road, and when offered a choice between a haunted forest and a goblin-infested frontier, we chose the trees."
"We intend to travel to the capital at Atkilpeme, and from there we'll head to the remains of the Sacred Grove."
Eko leans back, stroking his chin. "You mean the Golgothan Barrens?"
"The what?" You ask, befuddled.
"The Golgothan Barrens are what used to be the Sacred Grove, long ago. The whole place is dead and blasted, and supposedly is crawling with undead." Eko chews his lip, visibly searching his memory. "I don't remember much about it; I know that was one place where priests with my training could be sent. It's like Aloclesno; a dangerous place, but with even less reason to explore."
"Where you could be sent? I thought you were from Bedscaled." You ask quizzically.
"No, no." Eko takes a quick nip from his flask, grimacing to himself. "Priests are not allowed to serve in their hometowns, or anywhere near if possible; it is a law that prevents favoritism. I'm actually from Gilebe, in the south."
"Gilebe?" Omo perks up, stirring the campfire with a long branch. "That's where the Great River meets the sea, right? I've heard stories about that place; the legendary acropolis, the shining walls, the biggest shipyard in the world!"
"Yes, Gilebe is a fine city, perhaps the finest in Thrimesdur." Eko says wistfully. "It is certainly the oldest, and has a long and proud history. Even so, it cannot compare to Atkilpeme."
"What is Atkilpeme like?" You ask, curious about your future destination.
"You would like it, I think. It is an entirely planned city, with every structure fitting into a neat grid. I spent much of my time at the Great Temple, learning the duties of a priest. A beautiful place, very square and perfect, every inch of it laid down with such a love of detail... And the Wizard's College is wonderful as well. The Ivory Towers of the greatest Wizards rival the Great Temple itself for prominence in the city, and from what I've seen of their interiors they may be even more beautiful and perfect." Eko sighs happily. "But what you'd really like, Nym, is the Great Library. It's right between the Great Temple and the College grounds, not so tall or imposing as the buildings around it but still a sprawling, carefully built structure. There are so many books, on so many subjects... what scraps of free time I had between my duties with the principals of Atal and my studies at the College were spent there, just finding something interesting to sink my teeth into." Eko says wistfully.
Omo snorts. "Sounds like a place to keep Nym away from; if I lose her in there, I'd never find her."
You stick your tongue out at Omo before turning back to Eko. "It sounds like you spent your entire life in cities. How did you come to be a country priest?"
Eko shrugs. "Like everyone who is apprenticed to be a priest, I was tested for magical aptitude. I had some small talent with Order; not enough to ever hold a high rank within the College of Wizards, but plenty to supplement my priestly training. The very first spells I ever mastered were Wards, and they remain my strongest school of magic. I never had a real gift with Divination, which is what they look for in the more urban orders, and there is always a need for priests with Warding talents in problem areas like Aloclesno or the Golgothan Barrens. If I had applied myself more to magic I might have qualified for service in one of the border towns, but really, it just made sense to play to my strengths and accept this posting."
"Was it hard going from the big city out here to the boondocks?" Omo asks, for once sounding genuinely curious.
Eko stares into the fire, nodding slowly. "Yes... it was so different from anything I had done before, anywhere I had been before. It was hard to adapt, at first, and I'm afraid I didn't make the best first impression. Still, it's been almost ten years now; I've gotten used to life out here." He looks up, smiling. "At the end of the day, people are people, whether they're village goodwives or wizarding acolytes or merciless merchants."
Eko spends the remainder of the afternoon telling anecdotes about his wizard training and his duties as the priest of Bedscaled, while you and Omo respond with similarly lighthearted stories about your childhood, daily life in Yicelafo, Omo's Ranger training and your checkered pasttimes (of which fishing was but the latest.) You find common ground with Eko in your fishing, as Eko used to regularly fish with his father on the banks of the Great River along with his father. Unexpectedly, Omo finds himself empathizing with Eko's stories about his strict teachers, and they swap stories about pranks they pulled (including some you didn't know Omo was responsible for; the incident with the pepper powder in your father's boots left him angry nearly as long as the sharp smell lingered in your home.)
Omo stokes the fire as night descends, and you all tuck into your provisions. Eko brought some dried meats, for which you gladly trade him some of your extra cheese; you decline to try his bread, which looks like a biscuit crossed with a rock. Eko doesn't complain as he softens it with his Sewer Brew, while you and Omo drink from the waterskins you brought along. Having spent much of the afternoon talking, there seems to be little reason to stay up late, and you all retire early with the expectation of an early start the following morning.
The tent is indeed cozier than you might have liked with Omo and Eko both crammed inside, but the night still gets cold enough to make the tight confines preferable to a spot by the fire. As you drift off to sleep, you can't stop planning your day tomorrow. You believe that somewhere in this forest is a Necromantic being of some kind, one that has remained hidden for centuries, one that remains incredibly dangerous. Deciding what to do when you find it is all well and good; first you need a firm search plan.
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Your Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Eko Cleanvise (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Eko's Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: Andres on April 01, 2015, 07:15:25 pm
Post by: RAM on April 01, 2015, 08:43:21 pm
Post by: Andres on April 01, 2015, 08:49:35 pm
Post by: Angle on April 01, 2015, 08:59:47 pm
Post by: Andres on April 01, 2015, 09:16:41 pm
Post by: Angle on April 01, 2015, 09:32:49 pm
Post by: Andres on April 01, 2015, 10:28:18 pm
Post by: Deep Waters on April 02, 2015, 02:06:46 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I agree with Andres about not outing ourselves yet. We've known Eko for a few days, a week at most; we don't know how he'd react if we told him such a huge secret in the middle of a necromantically-haunted forest. After all, I know that, if I planned on setting up near a place to conduct necromantic experiments, this would be the perfect way to start off. This near another necromancer's army, no one would notice a few extra zombies. I could quietly get rid of one of the people who are not only the most likely to notice who I am, but who's probably the only reason the village is still standing against a zombie onslaught-- giving me plenty of bodies to work with after their defenses die.
Once we've proven that we can use our necromantic abilities for good, however, I think we should tell him. For one, he's a good way to patch up some blind spots. As a priest of Order who doesn't know us very well, Eko is far more equipped than Omo to notice if we start acting in... stereotypically necromantic ways, and to act on it if we do. Telling him that directly would probably be a good way of earning his trust, if the whole heroic thing pans out right and he doesn't run off right after we confess. Plus, he's pretty worldly compared to us, and would probably have a lot of advice concerning other things-- we could get a lot more information about how certain magic works without making him too suspicious, for example, and he might even know who Morka is. More mundane things like how to not stand out too much in the cities would also be useful. However, I also recommend we talk to Omo about this beforehand. Skimming through the last post again reminded me how much Omo really doesn't like Eko, and we should address that before we add him to our party. I'm pretty sure Omo will advise against it, but hopefully we can get him to see our point of view...
As for curse experimentation... hm... Maybe we could try sapping the life of something little by little over time, without having to concentrate on it? I'm not entirely sure curses will work that incredibly differently from any other spell, though, or are even spells in their own right. I've got a feeling that the "curse" is actually a creature of some sort, given what happened in the forest as well as what little we know of Necromancy. If it is, it can't seem to leave the forest, so it must have either been ordered to stay in there or have an anchor in there somewhere that prevents it from leaving. I'm hoping for the latter, since presumably if we destroy its anchor, we destroy it. It may also be possible to destroy it simply by stealing all its Vitality-- it only had three, after all, and such a straightforward solution would never have been within the reach of a non-Necromancer. It might be difficult to explain if we do it in front of Eko, and I don't know if that would help the children, but there's not much else we can do with what little we know, if it is a creature.
EDIT: Reading back even more, it occurs to me that Order's paradigm is that all things have their purpose and that one shouldn't step out of their role. Eko is clearly becoming dissatisfied with that belief, though, since he's a priest who (tacitly) wants to be a Knight. It might be a good idea to draw parallels there-- something about how, according to everything he and you know about Necromancers, you should, by nature, be evil. Yet, you're doing everything you can to be a good person.
Post by: Andres on April 02, 2015, 02:47:54 am
As for the whole Order thing, your argument has driven me further away from the idea that we should tell him at all. He's a priest of Order and believes in it strongly enough that instead of becoming a knight as he wanted he became a priest instead. If we were to tell him we're a necromancer he won't think "Necromancers are supposed to be evil but this necromancer clearly isn't, therefore my entire life philosophy and religion are wrong" - he'l think "Necromancers are supposed to be evil but this necromancer but this one doesn't seem that evil, therefore she is either Chaotic and thus evil or is secretly evil and thus evil! Burn the heretic/witch!"
Post by: Deep Waters on April 02, 2015, 03:50:13 am
First of all, we've already established ourselves as a curious person and Omo's confirmed that so asking about magic wouldn't be seen as suspicious. Even if we ask about necromancy it would at worst be seen as us being curious and at best trying to understand the magic so we can remove the curse more easily.
As for the whole Order thing, your argument has driven me further away from the idea that we should tell him at all. He's a priest of Order and believes in it strongly enough that instead of becoming a knight as he wanted he became a priest instead. If we were to tell him we're a necromancer he won't think "Necromancers are supposed to be evil but this necromancer clearly isn't, therefore my entire life philosophy and religion are wrong" - he'l think "Necromancers are supposed to be evil but this necromancer but this one doesn't seem that evil, therefore she is either Chaotic and thus evil or is secretly evil and thus evil! Burn the heretic/witch!"
He's already begun questioning his entire life philosophy and religion. It's not to the point that it's entirely safe to tell him, but the foundation is there, and we can definitely recruit him if we play our cards right. Case in point:
Quote
"You say you're supposed to put your trust in Order. But... you don't?"
Eko gives you a sidelong glance, lowering his voice as a villager passes by. "That's the kind of talk you should keep to yourself. Especially around our new visitors." He adds meaningfully, nodding toward the Temple.
Quote
"And your shepherds keep you from learning about your ancient foe. The magic you rely on has failed." You reply solemnly.
"The magic has not failed; the wards held in the basement. The failing must be within me."Eko says stubbornly "And the prohibition related to the capture of undead is based in dogma, not the direct word of any god."
"And you think this dogma is wrong." You say.
Eko visibly struggles with himself. "It isn't wrong... there is reason for it. It prevents temptation."
"Temptation?"
Eko runs a hand through his hair, grimacing. "To abandon Order. To discard the force that holds the Empire together. To step outside your purpose. Wizards cast spells. Armies send scouts. Both tasks have their place, and both tasks should be carried out by those most qualified to perform them. Stepping out of your role... if I wanted to cast spells and go adventuring, I should have signed up to be a Knight and received the proper training."
"And are you tempted to knighthood?" You ask softly.
Eko sighs, remaining silent. You watch the fire burn low together. Omo snores softly in the corner, face down on the table. Well, he starts out snoring softly, but soon begins to emit noises resembling those of some sort of wild beast.
Quote
Eko smiles happily. "Good morning! I've prepared some trail rations; I thought we should eat breakfast on the road in order to maximize daylight. I don't fancy fighting a soul-sucking monstrosity in the dark."
"We?" You ask cautiously. "We didn't ask you to come yourself. You have an important job to do for Bedscaled, maintaining the wards."
Eko scratches his head, suddenly seeming uncertain. "Well... the wards should be fine for days without my supervision. Weeks, even. Bale is in charge of hunting the zombies that attacked the other night, and he was quite clear he neither needed nor wanted my help finding them. He's also taken on organizing the defense of the village, so they don't need me for that. So, I could spend my time on administrative work preparing for a festival we may never have... or I could go to the forest with you."
"You seemed to think we were suicidal to even try." Omo says bluntly. "Now you want to join us?"
Eko sighs. "Nym... you asked whether I was tempted to knighthood last night. Well, maybe the life of a knight is beyond me, but I do think I made a mistake somewhere along the line, or my life wouldn't have lead me here. Maybe it's not too late to make the right choice."
Quote
"By killing every Necromancer you can find?" You ask. "I don't know... it seems to me that the Necromancers go on their killing sprees because they are so heavily persecuted. If they weren't killed for being who they are, wouldn't they just keep living peacefully in their villages?"
Eko barks a short laugh. "You know, it's funny... I had a similar conversation with Cikul not too long ago. It's hard to argue against the weight of the prophecies, and the High Priests say that the influence of the Death Gods would lead to war and destruction in any case. If the policy seems harsh, remember that it was implemented in the wake of the Golgothan War. The Necromancers of the world had just proven incapable of peaceful coexistence with the Empire, and then a dire prophecy warns that they will attack again in the future? An attack that will destroy the Empire, and maybe the world? I can't fault the decision that the Emperor made."
If, however, you think we have more to lose by telling Eko than we have to gain by having him as an ally, I don't have many more arguments than I've already put forth. I think there's a lot more information we can get out of him than we can justify without telling him our nature, that we can get a lot of advice on the most prudent courses of action when it comes to magic and issues such as Fale and Bale, that he can help us better blend in and not look like utter foreigners, and that Order magic is potentially highly useful. Even if Eko isn't the most talented Order mage in the world, we're not likely to find someone with a more open mindset than him around here. If we can't trust in our judgement of someone's character enough to take even the slightest risks in order to find allies, we should probably resign ourselves to Omo being only companion for the foreseeable future-- not that that's necessarily a bad thing, but it's something to keep in mind.
EDIT: This one's less clear-cut of an example, but it's something we can use if he does default to the whole "burn the heretic!" mindset.
Quote
Eko stares into the fire, nodding slowly. "Yes... it was so different from anything I had done before, anywhere I had been before. It was hard to adapt, at first, and I'm afraid I didn't make the best first impression. Still, it's been almost ten years now; I've gotten used to life out here." He looks up, smiling. "At the end of the day, people are people, whether they're village goodwives or wizarding acolytes or merciless merchants."
Post by: Felius on April 02, 2015, 08:18:55 am
And with strange aeons even death may die."
HUZZA!
But back on topic, I'd say keep it from Eko from a bit longer, at least until we make a somewhat stronger favorable impression on him.
On search plans though, I'm coming up blank here, specially since we can't use certain aspects of our magic to facilitate things.
Post by: 3man75 on April 02, 2015, 10:15:30 am
Post by: endlessblaze on April 02, 2015, 11:22:12 am
Did priest guy learn anything about the trees?
Oh, and we should use see vitality on the trees.
Post by: Deep Waters on April 02, 2015, 02:06:15 pm
Keep it secret for now....but soon....
Did priest guy learn anything about the trees?
Oh, and we should use see vitality on the trees.
We did, in the second-to-last post, and it was even in front of Eko. They looked like normal, healthy trees. Now that I think of it-- as long as we don't do obviously necromancer things in front of Eko, like raise dead things or maybe make golems (can't remember if that's an ability commonly attributed to Necromancers), we might not have to worry as much as I thought we did. Eko admitted himself that he doesn't know that much about other types of magic.
I wonder if it's a good idea to follow up on our previous conversation and ask him if it's possible that, since no other branch of magic was able to help, Necromantic magic may be the only way to lift this particular Necromantic curse. What do you guys think? In any case, as far as I can tell we have three spells that may be useful for this situation: Command Undead, Impair Undead, and Steal Vitality. At least the first is an obviously Necromantic spell, but we may be able to pass the other two off as something other than Necromantic in a pinch (though obviously that would be revealed as a lie should we ever tell Eko our real nature). Impair Undead may only work on physical undead, though, and both the former two assume this is a form of undead rather than some sort of ethereal golem, so again I'm arriving at Steal Vitality as the best option... well, that train of thought was useless. If the sapling thing turns up with nothing, we won't be able to do anything until that creature shows up-- if it ever shows up.
If no one else can think of anything to do (literally anything), I suggest that, as a last resort to keep from utterly wasting time while waiting, we read Eko's copy of A Study of Aloclesno-- or, if that's not possible, study more of our copy of Prestidigitation for the Beginning Practitioner.
Post by: endlessblaze on April 02, 2015, 02:16:11 pm
Post by: monk12 on April 02, 2015, 02:39:52 pm
But did eko learn anything with his spell?
Aw nuts, looks like I forgot to save that edit before I posted. No, Eko didn't find anything notably different about those saplings compared to the other trees in the area.
Post by: Andres on April 02, 2015, 04:33:50 pm
-1 to casting Steal Vitality on the saplings. They could be our one chance of repairing the children's health. Literally killing said chance is probably not very wise.
Instead of Steal Vitality, maybe we can work on creating Transfer Vitality or Give Vitality? See if we can transfer the vitality of a living leaf to a dead leaf directly. See if we can give our vitality to a dead leaf and see how well we can control that leaf compared to simply raising one.
Post by: Deep Waters on April 02, 2015, 04:54:00 pm
First of all, I think we should cast See Vitality on the surrounding trees to see if something's wrong with them that only a necromancer can see.
-1 to casting Steal Vitality on the saplings. They could be our one chance of repairing the children's health. Literally killing said chance is probably not very wise.
Instead of Steal Vitality, maybe we can work on creating Transfer Vitality or Give Vitality? See if we can transfer the vitality of a living leaf to a dead leaf directly. See if we can give our vitality to a dead leaf and see how well we can control that leaf compared to simply raising one.
Quote
The clearing looks no different in the light of day than when you first saw it; the ground is flat and covered with tall grass and leaves, and two young trees near the center of the clearing stretch toward the midday sun. At a nod from you, Eko begins walking around the clearing, preparing to enclose the entire area in a Minor Ward. You cast See Vitality, and at your urging Omo casts Sense Vitality.
You take a moment to look at Omo and Eko with your newly-enhanced vision. As far as you can tell, the Vitality network within them moves just like that of Ado Drunkenstumbles back at the Temple, except they aren't wounded. You don't see anything new, and while every individual you've looked at with this spell has had a unique Vitality system (Omo definitely has longer ears, among other things,) you don't notice any major differences between Omo and Eko. Of course, all this confirms is that something was very wrong with the Vitality of the victims of Aloclesno.
Examining the rest of the clearing reveals nothing out of the ordinary; the young trees are healthy saplings, the grass is basically tiny useless tubes of Vitality, and the surrounding trees all appear to be in good shape despite their unfriendly appearance. While Eko works on his ward, you and Omo take a quick circuit just outside the clearing.
Already did that. If there's something there that only a Necromancer can see, it's probably more advanced than anything we have right now. I agree with your other ideas, though. -1 to casting Steal Vitality on the saplings, +1 to transferring the vitality of a living leaf to a dead leaf. I'm not sure the latter will amount to anything more than a normal Steal Vitality, since we've effectively done what Transfer Vitality would do before, but it's something to do at least.
(Also, I don't know if this is why you were bringing it up, but I wasn't talking about casting Steal Vitality on the saplings, which is a stupid idea that wouldn't go anywhere no matter how you spin it. I was talking about casting Steal Vitality on the creature that chased us out of the grove when we rescued the children.)
Post by: Andres on April 02, 2015, 05:11:16 pm
Post by: monk12 on April 02, 2015, 08:03:11 pm
Instead of Steal Vitality, maybe we can work on creating Transfer Vitality or Give Vitality? See if we can transfer the vitality of a living leaf to a dead leaf directly. See if we can give our vitality to a dead leaf and see how well we can control that leaf compared to simply raising one.
Is this an action for your Planned Experiments tab, or is it an action you intend to take care of in the morning (and if so, what- if any- secrecy measures do you take?)
Post by: Andres on April 02, 2015, 08:09:27 pm
Something to do at night when everyone's going to sleep. As for secrecy measures, we'll tell them we're relieving ourselves and then walk far enough away for some privacy.Instead of Steal Vitality, maybe we can work on creating Transfer Vitality or Give Vitality? See if we can transfer the vitality of a living leaf to a dead leaf directly. See if we can give our vitality to a dead leaf and see how well we can control that leaf compared to simply raising one.
Is this an action for your Planned Experiments tab, or is it an action you intend to take care of in the morning (and if so, what- if any- secrecy measures do you take?)
Post by: Descan on April 02, 2015, 08:43:14 pm
And if he actually DOES say "Yeah, but I've never heard of one," or something positive, that's fucking spectacular.
It'd be relatively easy to ask, since we're supposed to be students of magic, and we can go "I've read about all these different magic schools, and they all have their good apples and bad apples, but necromancy seems the odd one out, and I don't really get why. Obviously the whole 'dead people' thing is a mark against it, but from what I read, necromancy isn't only about dead people. I've heard of constructs made of wood in the necromancers armies, and those... probably aren't made using dead people. No one really seems to know how it works. There's probably some other things they can do, maybe some form of divination from dead animals and entrails? So why do you think there's such a difference? Where are the necromantic 'good apples,' is that even possible?" or something like that.
THAT SAID: What about divination from dead animals/entrails? Have we tried that? It IS the main historical thing people used for divination, after all...
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 02, 2015, 08:53:34 pm
Instead of Steal Vitality, maybe we can work on creating Transfer Vitality or Give Vitality? See if we can transfer the vitality of a living leaf to a dead leaf directly. See if we can give our vitality to a dead leaf and see how well we can control that leaf compared to simply raising one.Haven't we already tried that though? Isn't it how we got to make golems in the first place? By putting vitality in a tree and making it a golem or zombie or something like that? I think it's not enough to give vitality to something, you have to modify it if you want something more complex.
(EDIT: Unless you mean to take the tree's soul and put it in another tree, without destroying it.)
As for cursing, if I remember correctly, the problem with the children was that their vitality network was not pulsing as strongly, like there was something missing from it. And we have a spell that can impair undead by messing with their vitality network. So if we want to curse someone, we simply have to mess with their network somehow, similarly to what we do with undead. We could try that on a tree, see if we can get it to start withering.
Reversing the damage would probably be a lot harder though. It is easier to destroy than to create. A tree is simple and could perhaps repair itself if given enough vitality and help from us, but a human would probably be more complex. Plus, we do not know what exactly destroyed or stole their souls or how it did so, so repairing the damage would be more hard.
(BTW I'm rereading the entire thread, so I can remember stuff. I've made an archive so I can read it offline from my phone, you can find it here if you want: http://parisbre56-phpexperiment.rhcloud.com/Necromancer_0.html)
Post by: Andres on April 02, 2015, 08:58:32 pm
If I remember correctly we used mana for that. What I'm suggesting is putting our very vitality into it, maybe mixing it with mana as well. Maybe we should also trying partially using Steal Vitality?Instead of Steal Vitality, maybe we can work on creating Transfer Vitality or Give Vitality? See if we can transfer the vitality of a living leaf to a dead leaf directly. See if we can give our vitality to a dead leaf and see how well we can control that leaf compared to simply raising one.Haven't we already tried that though? Isn't it how we got to make golems in the first place? By putting vitality in a tree and making it a golem or zombie or something like that? I think it's not enough to give vitality to something, you have to modify it if you want something more complex.
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 02, 2015, 09:03:09 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Andres on April 02, 2015, 09:47:27 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 02, 2015, 10:39:14 pm
Actually I was reading back, and it turns out you are right. I have yet to see Nym put vitality in something dead, only in objects or living things. I don't think the results would be different, but it might be worth investigating. It might teach us how to mass animate by splitting the vitality to multiple targets. Amd it might lead to something similar with for raise undead and animate object, find a way to animate more for less mana.
Edit: Just putting vitality in living b things doesn't work though. It either heals them if they're injured or dissipates if they're not. You'd probably need to injure them first and then somehow corrupt the vitality you are giving them to turn it into a curse (or blessing, although that would probably be harder).
Post by: Andres on April 02, 2015, 10:48:47 pm
Post by: escaped lurker on April 03, 2015, 03:43:14 am
With all our vitality experiments so far we've been implanting things with vitality from other things, right? Never our own? If it's true, then implanting a rock, for example, with our own vitality than with the vitality of a tree might get us different results. It is our vitality, after all, and we're controlling the thing that has our vitality.
I remember us becoming wounded. I think it was us overtaxing ourself, or a haywire spell, but taking vitality from our creations was able to heal us - albeit not fully.
Thus, forcing vitality out of us, which is a reasonable possiblity, would definitely cause us damage.
To avoid taking damage, but still having enough "energy" to create vast hordes of undead, is why that big desert exists - the necromancers of the past sucked all life out of it. Or maybe still do, else that somesuch abomination in it would not have endured the ages.
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 03, 2015, 03:50:21 am
Post by: Deep Waters on April 03, 2015, 01:53:26 pm
Have we asked Eko if he's heard of, or even think it's possible, for a necromancer to be, you know, good? Ranging from helping with his/her magic the way we want to, or just living their life on a farm, maybe with some golems to do the hard work, but otherwise not going all crazy world-dictatory-genocide? I seem to remember *someone* having an answer to that, and his answer to the "Possible?" one would be enlightening, depending on how rabid/incredulous he seems when he says no. There's a difference between the "No"'s of "I... don't really see how it is..." and "That's insanity, how could a necromancer be good?!"
And if he actually DOES say "Yeah, but I've never heard of one," or something positive, that's fucking spectacular.
It'd be relatively easy to ask, since we're supposed to be students of magic, and we can go "I've read about all these different magic schools, and they all have their good apples and bad apples, but necromancy seems the odd one out, and I don't really get why. Obviously the whole 'dead people' thing is a mark against it, but from what I read, necromancy isn't only about dead people. I've heard of constructs made of wood in the necromancers armies, and those... probably aren't made using dead people. No one really seems to know how it works. There's probably some other things they can do, maybe some form of divination from dead animals and entrails? So why do you think there's such a difference? Where are the necromantic 'good apples,' is that even possible?" or something like that.
THAT SAID: What about divination from dead animals/entrails? Have we tried that? It IS the main historical thing people used for divination, after all...
I had some quotes in one of my last posts. This one is the closest thing I've found to Eko stating the belief that Necromancers don't have to be evil:
Quote
"By killing every Necromancer you can find?" You ask. "I don't know... it seems to me that the Necromancers go on their killing sprees because they are so heavily persecuted. If they weren't killed for being who they are, wouldn't they just keep living peacefully in their villages?"
Eko barks a short laugh. "You know, it's funny... I had a similar conversation with Cikul not too long ago. It's hard to argue against the weight of the prophecies, and the High Priests say that the influence of the Death Gods would lead to war and destruction in any case. If the policy seems harsh, remember that it was implemented in the wake of the Golgothan War. The Necromancers of the world had just proven incapable of peaceful coexistence with the Empire, and then a dire prophecy warns that they will attack again in the future? An attack that will destroy the Empire, and maybe the world? I can't fault the decision that the Emperor made."
And maybe this as well:
Quote
Eko stares into the fire, nodding slowly. "Yes... it was so different from anything I had done before, anywhere I had been before. It was hard to adapt, at first, and I'm afraid I didn't make the best first impression. Still, it's been almost ten years now; I've gotten used to life out here." He looks up, smiling. "At the end of the day, people are people, whether they're village goodwives or wizarding acolytes or merciless merchants."
It's more an implication than anything else, which means telling him the truth isn't entirely without risk. I think there's a strong chance that we can convince him, though, if we play our cards right. In any case, convincing Eko to join us isn't our main concern right now. We need to focus on ways to find this Necromantic creature and end its curse.
As for the other things you mentioned, I vaguely remember someone from Yicelafo mentioning that Necromantic golems were known, although dwarves could also craft golems. I think it was Pevo, a sage, so it's hard to tell if that'd be common knowledge. I don't know about the divination.
Post by: RAM on April 03, 2015, 02:09:27 pm
As far as transferring vitality around though, an elf would use Life magic, which is the opposite of Death magic, but deals with many of the same themes. Damaging undead directly and putting vitality into things should be easy to pass off as natural, but taking vitality out of things(with the exception of undead, as that can be passed off as Life inhibiting Death, probably, I would assume that Order can inhibit Chaos directly...) or cursing them doesn't really seem like a Life thing. Life seems more about creating and correcting vitality, Death seems more about moving and altering vitality. So there should be a range of things that we can do and pass it off as life magic.
It is interesting to note that we have an unusually large mana pool, this may be inherent to necromancy compared to Life. Maybe it represents a difference in methodologies of magical use.
Ohhey, wasn't there some sort of Death entity loitering in our dreams? I wonder if it is like some sort of Death god, perhaps it can be unfluenced by our nature, maybe we could turn it good...
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 03, 2015, 02:25:10 pm
The problem would be how magic looks. We have our necromantic sight, which makes everything necromantic look purple. Including our spells. Would using a necromantic spell look purple for others? Can they see the vitality we draw out of things? We should probably use Omo to check. Or ask him if he saw anything strange when we gave vitality to the kids.
And probably ask Eko if he has any passive abilities like our necromantic sight, something that could reveal what kind of spell b we're using. But not directly. We should ask about if he's heard about passive abilities in general.
Post by: Deep Waters on April 03, 2015, 02:40:13 pm
Based on the source materials, there is a small chance that Order actually has a practice of brining dead spirits back amongst the living. But only rarely and only former heroes of their own faith who are presumably volunteers. They may also have the ability to cause someone to burn up the life force of the whole rest of their life in a brief burst of activity. In one of the source materials, Order was probably the most necromantic of the faiths other than Death.
As far as transferring vitality around though, an elf would use Life magic, which is the opposite of Death magic, but deals with many of the same themes. Damaging undead directly and putting vitality into things should be easy to pass off as natural, but taking vitality out of things(with the exception of undead, as that can be passed off as Life inhibiting Death, probably, I would assume that Order can inhibit Chaos directly...) or cursing them doesn't really seem like a Life thing. Life seems more about creating and correcting vitality, Death seems more about moving and altering vitality. So there should be a range of things that we can do and pass it off as life magic.
It is interesting to note that we have an unusually large mana pool, this may be inherent to necromancy compared to Life. Maybe it represents a difference in methodologies of magical use.
Ohhey, wasn't there some sort of Death entity loitering in our dreams? I wonder if it is like some sort of Death god, perhaps it can be unfluenced by our nature, maybe we could turn it good...
We have an unusually large mana pool because we're an elf. I don't know if we have large mana pools even for elves, though-- it was mentioned that we were once identified as having a lot of magical potential, until we demonstrated having absolutely no ability to learn even the most basic of Life magic. Also, source materials? What source materials? I don't recall any of that being mentioned in the thread itself.
As for the death entity, that would be Fale Packunions, a fellow Necromancer. They're supposedly the servant of Morka, the last and most powerful god of Death in Urak. They've at least got Curo Nightroar on their side, and probably the Pirate King as well (assuming Fale isn't the Pirate King him/herself). We refused their offer to teach us in exchange for joining them in their quest to make the world a safer place for Necromancers-- by conquering it, of course. Now that I remember that, we can also dreamwalk apparently. I wonder if that's a common ability amongst all mages or if it's a purely Necromantic ability. Maybe we should ask Eko later. Anyways, considering how they reacted to our refusal, they're expecting us to turn to their way of thinking, not the other way around. I think they got the impression that we were a lot more naive than we are.
I remember there being three schools of Life magic, one of which focused on using life magic to cause damage. So using life magic to hurt people isn't that strange. And if Eko uses his divinations and detects necromantic energy, we can blame it on the monster.
The problem would be how magic looks. We have our necromantic sight, which makes everything necromantic look purple. Including our spells. Would using a necromantic spell look purple for others? Can they see the vitality we draw out of things? We should probably use Omo to check. Or ask him if he saw anything strange when we gave vitality to the kids.
And probably ask Eko if he has any passive abilities like our necromantic sight, something that could reveal what kind of spell b we're using. But not directly. We should ask about if he's heard about passive abilities in general.
Hm, I didn't think of that particular problem. We were, in fact, able to identify some other types of magical energy-- at least, we were able to detect the change when our mother was identifying that artifact amulet. We couldn't tell what it was, exactly, but we can't depend on Eko being as inexperienced as we are. He does have a Detect Magic ability, but it's not passive. I really should reread the entire thread at some point instead of skimming through it to see if we're asking questions that have already been answered before...
Post by: monk12 on April 03, 2015, 09:05:25 pm
Instead of Steal Vitality, maybe we can work on creating Transfer Vitality or Give Vitality? See if we can transfer the vitality of a living leaf to a dead leaf directly. See if we can give our vitality to a dead leaf and see how well we can control that leaf compared to simply raising one.
If no one else can think of anything to do (literally anything), I suggest that, as a last resort to keep from utterly wasting time while waiting, we read Eko's copy of A Study of Aloclesno-- or, if that's not possible, study more of our copy of Prestidigitation for the Beginning Practitioner.
You awake just before dawn, judging by the wan light filtering through the trees. Eko seems to be sound asleep, but Omo is nowhere to be seen. Quietly leaving the tent, you step outside and find your friend sitting on a log by the campfire.
"Good morning, Nym." Omo greets you softly. "Sleep well?"
"Mm. Well enough." You lean back inside the tent long enough to grab your pack. "I'm going to go get changed. Freshen up."
"Maybe wake up a little, huh?" Omo's teasing grin is quickly replaced by a solicitous look. "Do you want company? I considered looking for fresh water when I woke up, but I figured we shouldn't wander alone into the haunted forest."
"That's very thoughtful of you, but I think I've got this. I don't need you hovering over my shoulder while I do... stuff." You stride off toward the treeline.
"Don't go too far!" Omo calls after you.
A short walk brings you back to the mossy log where you did a bit of experimentation yesterday; it's a good place, not too far from the clearing but with plenty of trees and low branches to give some privacy. You change into a clean set of clothes, using some of your water to cleanse your face and hands. Once your assorted personal hygiene tasks are completed you're ready to return to the clearing... except...
You take another look around, ensuring nobody is coming from camp to check on you. You haven't had as much privacy as you're accustomed to this past week, which apart from being a bit wearing in its own right has also minimized your opportunities to experiment with your Necromancy. Yesterday's "experiment" wasn't so much practice Necromancy as it was failed hobby crafting, and you've thought of something you can try real quick that could be quite educational.
The forest floor is virtually covered in dead leaves, many of them broken and dessicated from the abuses of winter. It's not too hard to find one in good condition, and you compare it to a nearby tree full of healthy leaves of the same kind. Your thought is that maybe you can drain the Vitality from one leaf and put it in the other without using Steal Vitality; something more efficient, something with less waste. When you try, however, you find you don't know another way to manipulate the Vitality short of pulling it out of the leaf and towards you- essentially beginning to cast Steal Vitality. It is rather like you had two buckets, one full of water and one empty; you can't work out a way to get water out of the full bucket without picking it up first.
You have another plan, however, one that you're pretty confident will work; it's basically what you did with the Animate Golem spell, after all. First, you begin to Steal Vitality out of yourself the same way you did to heal Nelti when you left Aloclesno on that night; you need much less Vitality for this trick, however, so you only deal 1 damage to yourself and spend 1 Mana to get a pittance of Vitality which should be sufficient for this leaf-sized experiment. Ignoring the minor pain of the act, you force it into the dead leaf.
Unlike the Animate Golem incident, you do not feel any great resistance to this act, nor do you feel the spell change at all; no further Mana is drawn from you into the process. Instead, the Vitality seems to settle comfortably into the leaf. With your Necromantic Sight (improved since the last time you did this) you can see the Vitality flowing through the three major veins of the leaf, fanning out into smaller veins as it flows to the edge of the leaf. You don't feel any sort of kinship or ownership over the leaf due to the fact that your own Vitality is animating it, but perhaps that is because you don't know what to do with a leaf; it's pretty useless on its own.
You don't notice it right away, distracted by the more interesting patterns of Vitality in the veins of the leaf, but the tiny amount of Vitality you imbued the leaf with is dissipating- quickly. By looking closely, it seems that the Vitality flowing around inside the leaf ebbs around the base of the stem; before you can properly react (or think of a way you could react) the Vitality is gone, and the leaf is once again lifeless.
You scratch your head, examining the leaf as you try to work out exactly what just happened. The leaf was dead, but you animated it without casting Raise Dead or Animate Golem; indeed, the only spell you cast was that pathetic Steal Vitality. Then, the Vitality in the leaf faded away rapidly; you don't know as it even lasted a full minute. It seems like there is some insight to be gained here to the relationship of those three spells, but you don't know what it is just yet.
Resolving to think about it more later, you return to camp. Eko has also arisen, and is staring into the fire blearily. Omo sits opposite him, tucking into his breakfast. You take a seat beside Omo, eating your own meal.
"Ahh." Omo sighs in satisfaction, wiping crumbs from his fingertips. "Alright then, what's our plan for this forest?"
You're only halfway through your own breakfast, and answer around a mouthful of hard cheese. "Eko, you brought that book about that guy who went to Aloclesno before, right?"
Eko yawns as he breaks into his own provisions. "Yes. A Study of Aloclesno has the account of Kiros Muleclenched, the last priest to enter Aloclesno and the only one to travel within scrying distance of the heart of the forest."
"Right." You swallow your mouthful, washing it down with lukewarm water from Omo's waterskin. "Let's read that. Maybe we can see what prevented him from finding the source of the Curse."
Eko shrugs, digging around in his pack until he withdraws the book. Opening to a page marked with a ribbon, Eko begins skimming the text. "Let's see... he cast a Sanctuary to use as his base camp, then quaffed a Mana potion to cast a Minor Ward on himself and followed up with Detect Undead. Five mile radius, not enough to cover the whole forest but enough to comfortably cover areas of the forest not reached by castings on the border. He spent the rest of that day exploring his local surroundings on foot, found some plants, found some antique weapons..." Eko thumbs forward a couple pages. "The next day he sent with more conventional divinations; Clairaudience, Clairvoyance, See Invisible, Detect Magic, Scrying..." Eko glances up at you. "Scry is quite a powerful divination, and beyond my own abilities. It essentially let him use Detect Magic and Detect Undead at ranges beyond himself, covering much of the forest. Anyway, after that night the Sanctuary ran out, so he cast another Minor Ward on himself, one last Detect Undead for good measure, and left."
"So he was covered the whole time, and never drew the creature to himself?" You ask.
Eko shrugs, returning to his breakfast. "He didn't know there was such a creature, but even so his Divinations should have found it."
"The same way your Divinations should have warned you about the zombies that attacked the other night." Omo asks pointedly.
Eko's face darkens. "That's different. Perhaps the rest of the zombies were just outside the range of my spell; I am not as gifted as Kiros was supposed to be. My spell worked fine on the zombie I had."
You gaze idly into the fire, finishing your breakfast. Kiros never encountered any Necromantic creature in the forest, even though you know there is one roaming about now. Could it have been smart enough to know to hide from Kiros, or was there a flaw in the priest's method? What can you do to succeed where Kiros failed?
Spoiler: Author's Note (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Your Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Eko Cleanvise (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Eko's Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: Baffler on April 03, 2015, 09:19:16 pm
The Curse didn't affect the priest before, but he was warded the entire time and used indirect methods to try to find it. We can't rule out that it has some means of concealing itself. Almost everyone else who goes in, unprotected, must be attacked by it at some point because they rarely return. It's risky, but we may have to eschew the protection of the wards (specifically designed to conceal people under its protection from the undead) and lure it out of hiding to have any hope of finding it. Ideally some protection to step into wouldn't be far away. Also worth noting is that the only attacks that we know details of occurred at night. It chased us out of the forest after dark, and the children fled into the forest from a zombie attack the night before. Again, it's risky, but it's worth considering.
Post by: RAM on April 03, 2015, 09:30:03 pm
For me, the obvious approach would be to just spend our time, personally, outside of the ward, but close to it, and remain alert for as long as we are able. If it shows up, the three of us throw all our divinations at it and retreat to the ward.
Post by: endlessblaze on April 03, 2015, 09:39:07 pm
Post by: Shadestyle on April 03, 2015, 09:41:48 pm
I wonder what the shape of a divination typically is, maybe they are squashed-out and do not extend much vertically...
For me, the obvious approach would be to just spend our time, personally, outside of the ward, but close to it, and remain alert for as long as we are able. If it shows up, the three of us throw all our divinations at it and retreat to the ward.
...Above
What if the creature has a means of flight? It could avoid both sharp eyes and careful wards is it could fly or levitate high enough above the trees, while a passerby lucky enough to look up would mistake it for a simple bird or even a dot.
Honestly if it can fly at all it could avoid detection as high as the forest is wide. and swoop down suddenly on potential prey.
Post by: endlessblaze on April 03, 2015, 09:43:40 pm
Post by: 3man75 on April 03, 2015, 09:55:05 pm
...............tree.....climb.....now.
...............tree.....climb.....now.
+1 also where exactly are we again? Sorry it's been a very long while for me and I want to know about the situation we are in.
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 03, 2015, 10:01:11 pm
So the raise zombie spell must somehow either seal the vitality inside the zombie or magically repair some of the damage done to it or supplant the functions of the body. Maybe all three at once. And it uses the information stored in the body to do so. That's why the headless ant got a magical purple head after being raised.
And the animate object does something similar for inanimate objects. Only now the problem is that inanimate objects don't naturally support vitality, so again you must seal it into them. And then you can do similar things to what the raise zombie spell does, you can alter its vitality network to add functions the body is missing, functions that imitate life.
At least that's my interpretation of that. A bit sleepy now and I still haven't finished rereading...
Good experiment Andres.
Post by: Deep Waters on April 03, 2015, 10:02:11 pm
Post by: 3man75 on April 03, 2015, 10:30:25 pm
I'm busy right now, so I can't analyze this situation deeply-- but it would be prudent to consider that the creature might be neither physical nor undead. Perhaps ask if Detect Magic can also detect creatures that are derived from magic?
Or possibly ethereal?
Post by: Andres on April 04, 2015, 12:12:15 am
Let's try to get some experiments out of the way.
Quote
- For Animate Object, see if you can make an object levitate, or move to your will. Maybe this could develop into telekinesis..More specifically, let's try to move the vitality within ourselves around and see how that affects our physical movements.
Quote
-Play with blood. Maybe that's what the golem needs. Blood. Mix some of your own blood into the clay.Let's see what the relationship between blood and necromancy is.
I also have a new experiment we can do. First up, we rip off a leaf and watch its vitality drain away. Second, we rip off another leaf but use some mana to keep the vitality in, maybe making a new spell. Third, We rip off some more leaves and use Raise Zombie/Command Undead on them. The plants aren't entirely dead yet, after all, so it would be interesting to see the results.
Depending on the results of the experiments, we could play with putting our own vitality into a leaf after it's not entirely filled with its own to see how ours mixes with its and see if that virus experiment will work.
Post by: RAM on April 04, 2015, 04:59:45 am
So the raise zombie spell must somehow either seal the vitality inside the zombie or magically repair some of the damage done to it or supplant the functions of the body. Maybe all three at once. And it uses the information stored in the body to do so. That's why the headless ant got a magical purple head after being raised.So maybe there is a way to alter the form in which the energy is held? Perhaps alter the ant's vitality to form metre-long antennae to grant it heightened awareness? Perhaps we are dealing with something similar here, a relatively small undead with purely necromantic tendrils capable of draining vitality...
Wait just outside the wards until you or your companions believe that your concentration is waning. Everyone should be advised that should you indicate that there is something in the vicinity, that they should use whatever means of observation they have to discern the nature of anything that is there.
Post by: Tomcost on April 04, 2015, 05:21:19 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 04, 2015, 05:58:55 pm
While we walk within the forest, we should also pay attention for any signs of the past like weapons or skeletons, either from the war or from more recent victims. It might give us a clue about what happened. We should also pay attention for anything out of the ordinary in general, like groups of dead trees or animals.
We should also ask if there are any known patterns about the curse. Is it more likely to occur at night? Does it prefer certain victims? Or certain locations?
I need to finish rereading this. I'm certain there's some information in the previous chapters that I need to make this plan work.
Post by: RAM on April 05, 2015, 01:05:37 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 05, 2015, 07:25:26 am
First of all, there's the matter of supplies. We might be able to prolong our stay by hunting or gathering but eventually we're probably going to run out. Water seems like something that would be hard to come by. Sure, we could go back to the village but what if Eko decides to stay or what if the other officials force him to stay? What if the village gets attacked by zombies in the meantime? We know that at least some zombies received orders to march towards it.
Second, there's the matter that one of our objectives is to reach the capital to search for information. But every moment that passes the necromancer's army grows stronger, killing more people, cutting off more routes. Soon it could be strong enough to lay siege to the capital, if it isn't already. On the other hand, almost the entire forest is warded against undead. If we were to solve the curse, it would either free up a lot of wizards that could help the fight with the necromancers or it could be used as a shelter, a place where civilians can hide and launch guerrilla attacks from. Once they realize or are told the curse is gone, of course. Might be a bit hard to convince them.
Third, every moment we delay and do not learn more and do not expand our powers and understanding of necromancy we become weaker compared to the other necromancers, who have the knowledge of someone who claims to be in contact with a necromancy god to aid them. Sure they may not have time to practice and understand necromancy like we do due to being preoccupied with fighting, but they are certainly gaining more power and practical knowledge somehow. Not only that, we know that they have an interest in us and that interest isn't going to go away. Next time their attempts to convert us might be more forceful. They might even try to eliminate us if they think we're becoming dangerous. Who knows how this dream connection or the necromantic god thing works? What if they could use either to track us? Or do worse things? They might want to turn us so they want us alive, but they'll probably won't have the same qualms about our friends. And we know they probably get at least some information about us through magical means, since they apparently knew when someone else knew we were a necromancer.
So we shouldn't consider ourselves perfectly safe. One way or another we are on a timer and our mere presence is putting everyone around us in danger.
Post by: Descan on April 05, 2015, 11:06:18 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 05, 2015, 11:15:15 am
You guys know we have a version of scrying, right? And it's cheaper than Order scrying. We can see through our minions eyes. So we just need to make a scout (a bird would be best, if we want to use animals) and send it around. If we can use our necro-vision through the bird, and look for purple-y stuff, we could scout the whole forest and look for anomalies in, like, an hour.Good idea. It's what I was trying to do with the golem, but doing it with an actual bird would be quicker and easier.
EDIT: Turns out we can't control things for a distance greater than we can see.
Post by: Descan on April 05, 2015, 11:22:57 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 05, 2015, 04:53:03 pm
After dinner, you decide to do some testing of the range of Command Undead. As you walk away from your pack, your awareness of the minnow (both through Control Undead and Necromantic Sight) begins to drop off rapidly- once you get more than a couple yards away from your pack, the spell ends along with your Necromantic Sight's awareness of the minnow's existence. Returning to your pack, you sense the minnows again, but don't regain control of them.We can certainly give it an instruction to do a flyby, but we won't be able to see what it sees and we won't be able to use our necromantic sight through it.
I've been keeping notes on things I find during my reread, you can see them here if you want:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sYTX9fyWuzwRnnVOFps6reyE2miT6JmgH9ousjSV3tM/edit?usp=sharing
It's a bit untidy, since I just note down anything I consider important so that I do not forget, I haven't taken any time to make it look pretty.
EDIT: We could still keep a bird or an insect around for mundane short range spying, I suppose.
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 05, 2015, 08:32:42 pm
Quote
Whereas the Mages of Life have the power to enhance the Vitality, the Life-Force of living things, the Necromancers had the power to take that Vitality and give it to the Dead.But it's more than that. Necromancy is about control. Life magic goes through the natural ways, the natural order of things. Even when killing something, it uses nature to do so, it just exaggerates it. Life pushes things to happen. Necromancy on the other hand does not care about the natural state of things. Necromancy forces things to happen. Life magic can bend the rules. Necromancy can break them. Life magic is a gardener. Necromancy is an engineer.
Think of the raise zombie spell. See its description through the eyes of a zombie:
Quote
Tired, but content, you go to sleep, and begin to dream… It is dark, and cramped, and cold. So cold... you feel frozen. You can't move. You feel a terrible need to be warm, and no sooner do you have the thought than you feel heat growing within you. It is trapped, you can feel it, you are incomplete. You force your will on your body, and suddenly the heat leaps out, bridging the incompleteness, making you whole. The heat flows out, suffusing your limbs- too many limbs. Where it meets discontinuities, holes, fuzziness, it flows around, replacing what is missing. Your legs twitch- your claws clench. Purple phosphorescence erupts from your eyes, and you can see!Vitality leaps into the being. And where there is damage, the damage is automatically repaired, using the vessel's body as a guide. Could that be what the difference between the leaf was? That the zombie is repaired while being raised, that the 'holes' the vitality could escape through are 'plugged'? Are the holes physical holes or are they there simply because the leaf has lost functionality and is dead? In that case, we can think of vitality in a new light. Vitality does not represent life force. It represents the potential for functionality (the capacity to perform a function, don't know if there's a better word for that).
Think about a biological organism. It is the perfect natural vessel for vitality. It has eyes and muscles, all ready to function, to be infused with vitality. But think of the rope doll. It had eyes, functional eyes. Its body could feel the dirt and the rock, even though it lacked skin. Its eyes were not on the rope itself, they were hovering in the air. So functionality is independent of the vessel. We know there exist things such as phantasms, they were mentioned by Eko. Some of them were said to have fought in the last great war. So living things do not necessarily need bodies, at least not physical ones.
Also think about life magic. It alters bodies. It alters bodies by giving them vitality. And harming bodies takes vitality from them. If vitality is an expression of the state of one's body and altering the body can alter vitality, then altering vitality could cause the opposite. They are connected. But the bodies need not be biological or even corporeal.
What I am trying to say is, what if vitality is both the machine and the powersource that drives it and bodies are just vessels, vessels built in the right way to hold vitality, vessels that can be supplanted by magic, by mana?
Another thing. The children lacked "souls". Yet when we looked at them we saw that their vitality was suffering. Like something was missing from it, something that prevented them from healing, they were hollow in a way.
Now think of something else: How does one control a zombie? You need empathy, true. But what happens to a zombie you control? Why can you control it? And why do you need empathy? Is it perhaps so that you can send the correct signals to it? Alter it in the right way? What if controlling zombies works by altering the vitality inside them? What if you can control them because they do not have a soul? What if what you do when you control them is take those inputs and outputs of your vitality network and put them in theirs? That would explain why you need empathy. You need to translate their bodies, their vitality networks into yours, somehow.
Now, think about the dream we had. We were contacted by other necromancers. So we can assume that necromancers can control dreams. That they have some form of limited telepathy. Which is not an absurd thing, considering they can mind control zombies. So if all they can do is mess with vitality, how do they do it? They mess with the vitality of the living. They mess with the vitality network connected to thoughts. Just like we do with zombies. Because the vitality network is just an expression of the mind (or the brain, depending on how you want to look at it) and vice versa. Because the body is vitality and vitality is the body.
Where does our consciousness go while we are dreaming? Is there a change in the vitality network of a sleeping person? And more importantly, can we use telepathy? If we can, then we can conclusively prove at least part of the above hypothesis.
Now of course, comes the problem of how we will use telepathy. We know it should be similar to command undead somehow. So we should probably try to empathize with the target. But we need more than that. Perhaps it would be easier if we had a willing volunteer, in case there is resistance possible. We should ask Omo (when Eko is sleeping or otherwise preoccupied) if he would be willing for us to try and use telepathy on him, trying to simply read his thoughts and the general state of his body like in a command undead spell. Or try forcing some thought or image to him, a joke or good memory from our shared childhood perhaps. The fact that he will have an open mind (pun intended) and the fact that we grew up together and thus know him well and can more easily empathize with him should help greatly. We could also try doing something similar while he sleeps, in case he is more receptive at the time. Perhaps use See Vitality on a sleeping person if we can.
The only thing that bugs me is where does the vitality from the raise zombie spell come from? Is some vitality left over inside the corpse or is it created via magic? Using see vitality while raising a zombie could help solve that conundrum of where does vitality come from and if it comes from mana, then we could use that knowledge to try and reverse the process, de-animating a zombie for MP.
There are other experiments we could try in that vein. One of the ideas that came up was making a blade out of vitality and trying to attach it to our hand.
(Sorry if I made this really wrong. Trying to express my thought process and half-formed ideas and concepts and I'm not sure if I'm expressing myself in a way others can understand. Maybe Deep Waters can help, since she came up with some of that. Just a hypothesis we could try, I'm not saying I've solved the problem of what necromancy is or anything.)
Post by: ~Neri on April 05, 2015, 10:31:17 pm
Post by: Baffler on April 05, 2015, 10:40:46 pm
I've been rereading the thread and it turns out we can't do the bird scout thing, at least not without doing something like altering the bird to allow it to record images (spy plane bird?) or somehow boost our control range. Our control range appears to have the same range limit as our necromantic sight (or is tied to it in some way):After dinner, you decide to do some testing of the range of Command Undead. As you walk away from your pack, your awareness of the minnow (both through Control Undead and Necromantic Sight) begins to drop off rapidly- once you get more than a couple yards away from your pack, the spell ends along with your Necromantic Sight's awareness of the minnow's existence. Returning to your pack, you sense the minnows again, but don't regain control of them.We can certainly give it an instruction to do a flyby, but we won't be able to see what it sees and we won't be able to use our necromantic sight through it.
I've been keeping notes on things I find during my reread, you can see them here if you want:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sYTX9fyWuzwRnnVOFps6reyE2miT6JmgH9ousjSV3tM/edit?usp=sharing
It's a bit untidy, since I just note down anything I consider important so that I do not forget, I haven't taken any time to make it look pretty.
EDIT: We could still keep a bird or an insect around for mundane short range spying, I suppose.
We were able to animate the rope doll and (I think) see through the eyes we gave it with Alter Golem, another thing we could do is use a few of them (or something simpler) as a sort of perimeter defense. Set them on strategic vantage points and check on what they're seeing every once in a while. We'd literally be able to watch five directions at once without even leaving the tent, since the only limitation we know of is distance. We couldn't get away with it now with Eko actively searching for such things, and the wards may well disrupt them anyway, but it's something to keep in mind for the future.
Post by: syvarris on April 05, 2015, 11:55:50 pm
...I need to check my email more often. I'm late.
I support the plan that has us walking just outside of a ward carried by Eko. If we do that, and we're far enough away from Eko to talk, then I think we should discuss our powers of necromancy with Omo- both what we can do, and our planned experiments. Ask him for input, even if we don't think he'd know anything useful.
Spoiler: Experiment ideas (click to show/hide)
As far as the telepathy idea, I agree with Baffler- it's too dangerous to do to Omo. Perhaps we could at least try it on an animal first? We won't have the empathy and shared history, but we can test if the basic idea seems possible.
Post by: 3man75 on April 06, 2015, 12:16:31 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 06, 2015, 06:10:08 am
There's a google doc?https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sYTX9fyWuzwRnnVOFps6reyE2miT6JmgH9ousjSV3tM/edit?usp=sharing
Not an official one, just some notes I take while rereading about things I should not forget (currently on page 28). I thought it would be nice to share. I've got a list of experiments and info about how some spells work close to the bottom. And some people came by and said hello and talked a bit on the chat, the two I talked to were DeepWaters and monk12 (mostly DeepWaters).
EDIT: It's just notes though, so it's a bit untidy. We could do something better looking if people are willing to help. Some sort of expanded reference.
EDIT EDIT: Oh, and we should definitely try using see vitality while raising a zombie or stealing vitality if we get a chance, so that we can see if we can find out where vitality comes from and why it is lost. For the steal vitality part, if we do it on a zombie, then we probably don't need to cast see vitality, just watch carefully, since we can see the vitality inside the zombie. Would also be interesting to see if dead things or things like the soil have vitality in them.
Post by: Shadestyle on April 06, 2015, 04:57:52 pm
The only reason that i am making this theory is because it seems Very Off that Life magic creates Life, and necromancy merely moves it Sideways. Seems like if that were the case, Then there would be a third school of magic devoted to the destruction of life anyway. Just a little theory.
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 06, 2015, 05:42:09 pm
Quote
Growth is the most basic of the disciplines, and involves encouraging the development of living things.All three take something that already exists and make it stronger, causes it to grow and multiply. There's no mention of creation anywhere.
Healing is another widely practiced discipline, and focuses on strengthening the life in a particular part of the body to facilitate rapid recuperation.
The third, smallest discipline within Life magic is Imbalance, and is the use of Life magic as a weapon. Mages who specialize in the discipline can cause normally innocuous diseases to become life threatening illness, and can interfere with the biological mechanism of life by accelerating the growth of one area of the body without increasing the capacity of the body to handle the imbalance.
Creation could be possible and we might just not know it, but with no life mages around there's no way to know for sure. And it sounds like something that would be mentioned.
I find it much more plausible for Necromancy to create life, what with our ability to raise corpses via mana alone. Which makes it very interesting to find out where exactly does vitality come from in the raise zombie spell.
Not only that, we know that we can seal vitality inside things that were originally not meant to hold it via Animate Object, which means we must have some way to directly interact with vitality.
Oh, other fun experiment: Try sealing the vitality inside a dead leaf with Animate Object. Does the vitality stay an undirected ball or does it take the shape of the leaf? Is it even possible to cast animate object on something that was once alive?
EDIT: Reading back, I just noticed this:
Quote from: Grek
At no point should we outright state "I'm a Necromancer, Omo."
Quote from: monk12
"Nym. What exactly are you saying?"Heh. Monk/Nym is a troll. I laughed.
"I'm a... uh, Necromancer. I'm a Necromancer, Omo."
Post by: monk12 on April 08, 2015, 04:11:14 pm
It lives!
The Curse didn't affect the priest before, but he was warded the entire time and used indirect methods to try to find it. We can't rule out that it has some means of concealing itself. Almost everyone else who goes in, unprotected, must be attacked by it at some point because they rarely return. It's risky, but we may have to eschew the protection of the wards (specifically designed to conceal people under its protection from the undead) and lure it out of hiding to have any hope of finding it. Ideally some protection to step into wouldn't be far away. Also worth noting is that the only attacks that we know details of occurred at night. It chased us out of the forest after dark, and the children fled into the forest from a zombie attack the night before. Again, it's risky, but it's worth considering.
...............tree.....climb.....now................tree.....climb.....now.
+1 also where exactly are we again? Sorry it's been a very long while for me and I want to know about the situation we are in.
I'm busy right now, so I can't analyze this situation deeply-- but it would be prudent to consider that the creature might be neither physical nor undead. Perhaps ask if Detect Magic can also detect creatures that are derived from magic?
We should also ask if there are any known patterns about the curse. Is it more likely to occur at night? Does it prefer certain victims? Or certain locations?[/b]
You dust the crumbs of your breakfast from your fingertips, looking around the fire at your companions. "I think we should do some searching outside the protection of the wards; perhaps the monster is smart enough to avoid them. The wards seem to be the only difference between Kiros and the victims."
Omo grins. "Right. And we want to be victims."
You scowl at Omo. "That's not what I meant and you know it. Kiros didn't encounter any monster, but the victims did. We'll stay close together, and we'll be very careful, but we need to meet this monster if we're going to solve anything."
Omo holds his hands up defensively. "I'm kidding, I'm kidding! It's a good plan. Let's go."
Omo rises from the campfire, returning to the tent to grab his pack. You follow his example while Eko hastily finishes his breakfast. Within a couple minutes you are all prepared for your stakeout, and strike off into the forest.
You do not travel very far beyond the safety of the Minor Ward before Omo finds a likely enough area; the trees are a little thinner and the branches a little higher, giving as much line of sight as you can expect short of finding another clearing. Following Omo's advice, you arrange yourselves in a triangular shape; you and Omo climb trees closer to the heart of the forest, while Eko remains on the ground closer to your base (muttering not-quite-quietly enough to himself about nonsensical tree-climbing Elves.) In this way, you expect to detect the creature coming from either the ground or the trees, and gain an advantage on it.
All that remains is to wait for the monster to arrive.
Time passes. Eko sits down against a tree and closes his eyes, while Omo seems to fade into his tree beneath his mottled Ranger cloak, holding his staff across his knees. You... become bored.
"Hey, Eko." You call out softly.
Eko opens his eyes, abandoning whatever inner thoughts he was entertaining. "Yes, Nym?"
"I've been thinking about what you said about ethereal creatures, and other non-zombie undead from the Golgothan War." Grabbing a low branch, you hang out from the tree to get a better look at Eko. "Do you know anything more about them? Is there a way to detect them, in case we're wrong about the Curse being a physical monster?"
Eko runs one hand through his thinning hair. "I do not know very much, but I suppose I know more than nothing at all. When it comes to ghosts, shades, wraiths... the majority seem to be creatures of Necromancy. Nobody knows if those are creations of Necromancers or if they arise through some unknown natural process. However, some ethereal creatures are simply projections from the Spirit World, and appear in places where the boundaries between our world and theirs is thin."
"Spirit world?" You ask.
Eko sighs. "Right. Urak is just one world among many; they are not a separate location, exactly, but instead lay across our world like the layers in an onion. In some places the separation between layers is thin enough to bridge if you are sufficiently powerful, and in very rare places even common people can slip between the worlds if they are not wary. The Great Temple of Order is built on a thinning between our world and the world of Order, where Atal and the other Order gods reside. Order magic is easier to cast there, and has more powerful effects impossible elsewhere."
"Really?" You reply, intrigued. "Are there similar places of power for the other Magical Faiths?"
"Perhaps." Eko shrugs. "I do not know of any, but I did not make such topics a focus of my studies. I always did rather poorly in metamagical training." He stretches. "How long do you intend for us to sit out in the woods?"
"I don't know. I suppose we should give it until noon before giving up." You squint upwards, trying to judge the position of the sun between the trees. "Another couple hours, anyway. Are there any patterns to the attacks? Does the curse only manifest at night, or in certain parts of the forest, or anything like that?"
"No, no." Eko shakes his head. "Anyone who ventures deeply into the forest is never heard from again; sometimes parties which skirt the edges suffer the curse, and sometimes the emerge unscathed. There is one sensationalist tale of a party of woodcutters who claim to have seen their comrades consumed by the forest before fleeing themselves, but it's unconfirmed since they refused to lead anyone to where they were logging, and nobody was willing to explore for the missing woodsmen on their own."
"Well, I suppose we'll just have to wait. If it doesn't show, we'll just have to try something... else..."
You wander off at the end, distracted by what your Necromantic senses are telling you. About fourty feet away you can feel a source of Necromantic energy, three vitality's worth, same as the night you rescued the children from Aloclesno. Scanning the forest quickly, you find it; low to the ground, about the size of a large dog and moving at a trot. You're too far away to get a good look at it's Necromantic structure, and there are too many trees and obstructions in your way to get a visual of it, but it seems to have 6 legs; definitely not a zombie dog. It seems to be approaching from towards the heart of the forest; it is closer to Omo's corner of the perimeter, and is angling directly towards him.
"Nym." Omo calls out softly, remaining perfectly still. He's seen it, and may be trying to get a jump on it. The creature will be on you quickly. What now?
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Your Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Eko Cleanvise (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Eko's Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 08, 2015, 04:26:11 pm
Looks like it's at least partly physical.
Anybody think it might be possible to communicate with it?
We probably can't control it, since we lack the empathy for that. No reason we can't try though.
It's too far away to attempt to impair it, but we can try when it gets closer. But there's always the chance it will still be able to attack, even if it is unable to move. We can try damaging its eyes and hoping its attack isn't AoE.
We can try to steal vitality and look at its corpse later, if it leaves one, but there's always a chance it won't work. Plus, we have to wait for a good shot, since we know steal vitality does not need line of sight but it might need a line clear of living creatures.
We can have Eko cast one of his anti-necromancy spells, but it might not be powerful enough to work.
The existence of a spirit world is interesting. Maybe this is where the creature is from. If it is smart and merely trapped here, do you think we could help it go home?
Also interesting that at least some of those ghostly creatures are related to necromancy. Maybe creatures made out of vitality held together by necromantic energy? The necromantic energy providing them with a body made out of magic?
Whatever we choose, we should definitely have Omo run and hope that like most predators it locks on to what it chases. Don't know if we and Eko should run too. Probably yes. Then again, we do have a good vantage point.
I've almost finished rereading this and have made a lot of notes, I'll put the Google doc in my sig a while later for anyone who wants it.
Post by: endlessblaze on April 08, 2015, 04:40:53 pm
look at its vitality, if we don notice anything odd, drain it!
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 08, 2015, 05:07:07 pm
The only thing we gain are higher chances of keeping our life.
Post by: Shadestyle on April 08, 2015, 05:36:01 pm
don't attack yet! for all we know the children's "souls" are still inside it!
look at its vitality, if we don notice anything odd, drain it!
+1
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 08, 2015, 06:14:02 pm
Eko should also be warned about the direction it's coming from so that he is ready to cast a necromantic abjuration to keep the creature away. Still not sure about whether or not he should run with Omo so they can help each other (Omo with navigating the forest, Eko with abjurations).
And now that we do not have line of sight and cannot attack the creature, we should try commanding it. Imagine being a creature with 6 legs, trotting through the forest, seeing the souls of 3 humanoids in a way similar to "see vitality". If it turns out the creature is easily controlled, we should make it stop while we decide how to proceed. If it resist or if it is intelligent, then we should try to convince it with simple feelings and mental images that we mean it no harm and that it should not hurt us and that we're a necromancer that can help. Or if that doesn't work we should convince it (again through simple feelings and mental images) that we are powerful and we can kill it, like Balkoth, so it should obey us, essentially intimidating it and associating ourselves with people we know it didn't hurt. We should generally focus our mind on our need/desire to communicate and exude a feeling of peace, stillness and being in control during the entire Command procedure. We should keep it simple, in case it is an alien low intelligence creature like the ones Eko described.
Once we get line of sight and if we have failed to control it, we can try impairing its eyes and then its legs, since it is one of our invisible spells.
Only steal vitality if it is getting dangerously close and impair does not work. Even then, try not to steal all of its vitality unless it looks like if we won't kill it it'll hurt one of us, so we can study it.
If things look like they are not working, we and the others should be ready to run away.
Post by: Baffler on April 08, 2015, 07:25:55 pm
Even though the creature looks like an ambush predator, in the case of the children it didn't look like there were any signs of struggle. One child lost its soul on the spot and the other run and then ended face first into the dirt with its soul gone. So we know that it takes some time to steal a soul or to recover after stealing one, but the process almost immediately incapacitates the one attacked. Even if Omo can one-hit-KO the creature and even if he can resist the attack for a few seconds due to his high vitality and training (unlikely, since soldiers didn't have much luck with it), we shouldn't risk having him fight the creature. So he should definitely back off to a safer height/distance or if we can't convince him to do so, at least convince him to not attack.
Eko should also be warned about the direction it's coming from so that he is ready to cast a necromantic abjuration to keep the creature away. Still not sure about whether or not he should run with Omo so they can help each other (Omo with navigating the forest, Eko with abjurations).
And now that we do not have line of sight and cannot attack the creature, we should try commanding it. Imagine being a creature with 6 legs, trotting through the forest, seeing the souls of 3 humanoids in a way similar to "see vitality". If it turns out the creature is easily controlled, we should make it stop while we decide how to proceed. If it resist or if it is intelligent, then we should try to convince it with simple feelings and mental images that we mean it no harm and that it should not hurt us and that we're a necromancer that can help. Or if that doesn't work we should convince it (again through simple feelings and mental images) that we are powerful and we can kill it, like Balkoth, so it should obey us, essentially intimidating it and associating ourselves with people we know it didn't hurt. We should generally focus our mind on our need/desire to communicate and exude a feeling of peace, stillness and being in control during the entire Command procedure. We should keep it simple, in case it is an alien low intelligence creature like the ones Eko described.
Once we get line of sight and if we have failed to control it, we can try impairing its eyes and then its legs, since it is one of our invisible spells.
Only steal vitality if it is getting dangerously close and impair does not work. Even then, try not to steal all of its vitality unless it looks like if we won't kill it it'll hurt one of us, so we can study it.
If things look like they are not working, we and the others should be ready to run away.
This is sensible, but I'm not sure about the diplomacy. It's not something we've tried before, and the rest of the plan would only leave us with 1 mana. We don't want to risk using too much to drain all of its vitality at the end if we need to. Otherwise +1.
Post by: XXXXYYYY on April 08, 2015, 08:00:18 pm
Post by: Andres on April 08, 2015, 08:06:28 pm
PTW; I had thought this dead!It was...but...you know...necromancers and all...
Post by: Andres on April 08, 2015, 10:45:54 pm
Your thought is that maybe you can drain the Vitality from one leaf and put it in the other without using Steal Vitality; something more efficient, something with less waste. When you try, however, you find you don't know another way to manipulate the Vitality short of pulling it out of the leaf and towards you- essentially beginning to cast Steal Vitality. It is rather like you had two buckets, one full of water and one empty; you can't work out a way to get water out of the full bucket without picking it up first.Vacuums. The trick isn't to get the water from the first bucket into the second - the trick is to get the water from the first bucket to get itself into the second bucket, or have the second get the first's water. I don't know, I'm not good at physics.
Anyway, this line of thinking has led me to another. What if we're not actually controlling vitality itself? What if we're simply pushing it around? My hypothesis is that life mages move around water itself (vitality) but necromancers move around the buckets or create new ones as needed using mana. With Steal Vitality, we're using mana to create a bucket and scooping out the vitality with it.
Don't mind me. These are just some random thoughts I had.
Post by: 3man75 on April 08, 2015, 11:07:39 pm
Even though the creature looks like an ambush predator, in the case of the children it didn't look like there were any signs of struggle. One child lost its soul on the spot and the other run and then ended face first into the dirt with its soul gone. So we know that it takes some time to steal a soul or to recover after stealing one, but the process almost immediately incapacitates the one attacked. Even if Omo can one-hit-KO the creature and even if he can resist the attack for a few seconds due to his high vitality and training (unlikely, since soldiers didn't have much luck with it), we shouldn't risk having him fight the creature. So he should definitely back off to a safer height/distance or if we can't convince him to do so, at least convince him to not attack.
Eko should also be warned about the direction it's coming from so that he is ready to cast a necromantic abjuration to keep the creature away. Still not sure about whether or not he should run with Omo so they can help each other (Omo with navigating the forest, Eko with abjurations).
And now that we do not have line of sight and cannot attack the creature, we should try commanding it. Imagine being a creature with 6 legs, trotting through the forest, seeing the souls of 3 humanoids in a way similar to "see vitality". If it turns out the creature is easily controlled, we should make it stop while we decide how to proceed. If it resist or if it is intelligent, then we should try to convince it with simple feelings and mental images that we mean it no harm and that it should not hurt us and that we're a necromancer that can help. Or if that doesn't work we should convince it (again through simple feelings and mental images) that we are powerful and we can kill it, like Balkoth, so it should obey us, essentially intimidating it and associating ourselves with people we know it didn't hurt. We should generally focus our mind on our need/desire to communicate and exude a feeling of peace, stillness and being in control during the entire Command procedure. We should keep it simple, in case it is an alien low intelligence creature like the ones Eko described.
Once we get line of sight and if we have failed to control it, we can try impairing its eyes and then its legs, since it is one of our invisible spells.
Only steal vitality if it is getting dangerously close and impair does not work. Even then, try not to steal all of its vitality unless it looks like if we won't kill it it'll hurt one of us, so we can study it.
If things look like they are not working, we and the others should be ready to run away.
This is sensible, but I'm not sure about the diplomacy. It's not something we've tried before, and the rest of the plan would only leave us with 1 mana. We don't want to risk using too much to drain all of its vitality at the end if we need to. Otherwise +1.
+1
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 09, 2015, 04:37:18 am
Also, what do you think? Should we get Omo and Eko to run immediately? Or just get them to back off and be ready to run in case our spells fail?
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 09, 2015, 08:08:55 am
I don't think that's the case. If you look at what the raise zombie spell, you'll see that it actually used necromantic energy to repair the body by replacing the damaged parts with necromantic energy and thus keep the vitality in the body. So necromancy just uses necromantic energy to mess with vitality, probably the same as life and order magic. And those shades that Eko mentioned are probably living creatures with bodies made out of pure vitality held together by necromantic energy.Your thought is that maybe you can drain the Vitality from one leaf and put it in the other without using Steal Vitality; something more efficient, something with less waste. When you try, however, you find you don't know another way to manipulate the Vitality short of pulling it out of the leaf and towards you- essentially beginning to cast Steal Vitality. It is rather like you had two buckets, one full of water and one empty; you can't work out a way to get water out of the full bucket without picking it up first.Vacuums. The trick isn't to get the water from the first bucket into the second - the trick is to get the water from the first bucket to get itself into the second bucket, or have the second get the first's water. I don't know, I'm not good at physics.
Anyway, this line of thinking has led me to another. What if we're not actually controlling vitality itself? What if we're simply pushing it around? My hypothesis is that life mages move around water itself (vitality) but necromancers move around the buckets or create new ones as needed using mana. With Steal Vitality, we're using mana to create a bucket and scooping out the vitality with it.
Don't mind me. These are just some random thoughts I had.
That's my theory, anyway. Not much time to expand on it.
This is sensible, but I'm not sure about the diplomacy. It's not something we've tried before, and the rest of the plan would only leave us with 1 mana. We don't want to risk using too much to drain all of its vitality at the end if we need to. Otherwise +1.Actually, we have 11 mp.
Assuming that casting command undead fails but still takes 2mp, then that leaves us with 9mp.
Even if we assume that for some reason we cast a different spell than command undead, something like "communicate with undead" or something similar that costs more MP, we'll be at worst at 7mp (I don't expect a weak spell to take more than 4mp).
Then we need two or three impair undead. Assuming worst case scenario, that leaves us at worst at 1mp. That's enough to remove 2 vitality from the target. If worse comes to worse, we can cast from HP, but the best choice would be to get a mana potion ready, just in case.
I would like to amend the previous plan with the following:
If we have enough time, get that mana potion ready to use in case we need it.
If we can quickly identify the creature's method of attack and it looks easy to disable, we should try to impair that first, before going for the legs and eyes.
And for the love of Atal and Uzin, do not get too distracted gawking at the creature. Safety first,
Post by: RAM on April 09, 2015, 03:23:24 pm
Post by: Dani on April 12, 2015, 07:57:52 am
PTW!
Post by: monk12 on April 13, 2015, 02:24:01 pm
Even though the creature looks like an ambush predator, in the case of the children it didn't look like there were any signs of struggle. One child lost its soul on the spot and the other run and then ended face first into the dirt with its soul gone. So we know that it takes some time to steal a soul or to recover after stealing one, but the process almost immediately incapacitates the one attacked. Even if Omo can one-hit-KO the creature and even if he can resist the attack for a few seconds due to his high vitality and training (unlikely, since soldiers didn't have much luck with it), we shouldn't risk having him fight the creature. So he should definitely back off to a safer height/distance or if we can't convince him to do so, at least convince him to not attack.
Eko should also be warned about the direction it's coming from so that he is ready to cast a necromantic abjuration to keep the creature away. Still not sure about whether or not he should run with Omo so they can help each other (Omo with navigating the forest, Eko with abjurations).
And now that we do not have line of sight and cannot attack the creature, we should try commanding it. Imagine being a creature with 6 legs, trotting through the forest, seeing the souls of 3 humanoids in a way similar to "see vitality". If it turns out the creature is easily controlled, we should make it stop while we decide how to proceed. If it resist or if it is intelligent, then we should try to convince it with simple feelings and mental images that we mean it no harm and that it should not hurt us and that we're a necromancer that can help. Or if that doesn't work we should convince it (again through simple feelings and mental images) that we are powerful and we can kill it, like Balkoth, so it should obey us, essentially intimidating it and associating ourselves with people we know it didn't hurt. We should generally focus our mind on our need/desire to communicate and exude a feeling of peace, stillness and being in control during the entire Command procedure. We should keep it simple, in case it is an alien low intelligence creature like the ones Eko described.
Once we get line of sight and if we have failed to control it, we can try impairing its eyes and then its legs, since it is one of our invisible spells.
Only steal vitality if it is getting dangerously close and impair does not work. Even then, try not to steal all of its vitality unless it looks like if we won't kill it it'll hurt one of us, so we can study it.
If things look like they are not working, we and the others should be ready to run away.
This is sensible, but I'm not sure about the diplomacy. It's not something we've tried before, and the rest of the plan would only leave us with 1 mana. We don't want to risk using too much to drain all of its vitality at the end if we need to. Otherwise +1.
+1
"Nym." From his vantage, Omo can see the approaching monster. He sounds focused, like a nocked arrow.
Your mind races in the heat of the moment. "Climb higher, Omo. It's coming for you. Try to get out of reach."
Omo doesn't respond, simply making his way higher in the tree until the branches become too thin and spaced out to reach easily. Eko scrambles to his feet. "It's coming?" he asks in alarm, clumsily readying his spear.
"It is. Get your Abjurations ready, it's going for Omo."
You push Eko from your mind as you focus on the creature clattering through the underbrush; it's a wonder Eko doesn't hear the noise for himself. You quickly try to piece together what the monster must be from your limited information: it has six legs, like a giant bug, it's looking at the same bushes and trees that you are, it's on a mission to find You and Omo and Eko, it has sight like a Necromancer. When you try to Command it you can feel an echo, or rather a hum like an arrow whistling past your ear or an unseen hand just behind your head. It's a feeling of closeness that is strongest when you focus on it's Necromantic Sight and what it feels, but weakest when considering what it sees and what its body is. You sense that Command Undead is possible, but you do not yet know enough about it to make the spell resolve.
You step quickly along a thick branch of the tree you're hiding in, trying to get a better view to help finish your spell. You grab a higher branch and lean outwards, getting a clear look around the tree between yourself and Omo. This affords you a clear view of the monster as it breaks through the undergrowth and emerges directly beneath Omo's tree.
It's not really a monster though, or a creature at all. It's some kind of bewilderingly complicated golem. Its body appears to be cast out of ancient bronze, dented and tarnished. It's legs are made of the same stuff, but have suffered even more abuse, and the "feet" of the construct are covered in muck. The places where the legs join the body are concealed by strips of leather; when the legs move (an awkwardly violent up and down motion) flashes of purple light illuminate the ground as the leather shifts. The construct as a whole is plain-looking and unadorned, rather like a metallic water tub had decided to go for a walk in the woods.
It's just outside the range of your detailed Necromantic Sight, though you can still get a sense for the shape of the Necromantic energy animating the construct. A disproportionate amount of Vitality seems to be concentrated towards the front of the body; the head, perhaps. The body itself holds very little, serving more as a hub for energy to flow into the legs, pooling at the joints and trickling down each limb.
There is no time to discern details; only this glimpse. From the time you first sensed the construct to the time it burst into view has been only a handful of seconds. Now it is directly beneath Omo, and though its body ceases its frantic movement the speed of its actions transfers immediately to the realm of Necromancy. To your eyes, a fine rope of Necromantic energy seems to erupt from the "head" of the monster, snaking up between the branches before coiling around Omo's head. There is a whipping motion as the rope of Necromantic energy curls into a ball and snaps back towards the creature.
Omo falls from the tree.
Eko curses, stumbling forward as Omo's body crashes through the branches, landing in a heap on the forest floor. You don't have time to waste on profanity or useless shouts. Your blood is rushing in your ears. What do you do?
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Your Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Eko Cleanvise (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Eko's Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: Baffler on April 13, 2015, 03:19:55 pm
Do we try to drain all of it's energy right away? We know that we can quickly destroy it that way, but we might also lose the ability to help Omo. We could also try to incapacitate it with Alter Golem, either by severing its leg joints and rendering it immobile or by damaging the head and (hopefully) disabling its attack. The only thing I can think of to do for sure is to use See Vitality and try to see what's going on. The way the energy was directed by its attack seems to suggest that the golem took whatever it did from Omo rather than just displacing it and letting it dissipate. If we're lucky it holds onto that vitality, at least for a time.
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 13, 2015, 03:37:00 pm
I say jump on it and cast impair undead/alter golem on it until all its weapons, sensors and legs are gone.
EDIT: I suppose we could attempt to control it. It is the safest choice, but that has a chance of not working. And screw that thing, it should feel pain for what it did. No mercy.
Besides, we know that it should take some time for it to be able to attack again. If command undead fails again, we'll loose that advantage. Better to take out its means of attack first. And since I'm guessing the reason we did not impair that necromantic soulgrabeer was because it moved too fast, we probably won't get a second chance.
EDITEDIT: And if we see Omo's soul and it looks like it's trying to do something to it, we should stop whatever mechanism it is using immediately. Maybe try commanding it again. Cast see vitality if we have enough time?
Post by: Baffler on April 13, 2015, 04:12:57 pm
It shouldn't be our main concern, but this is also an excellent example of a fully functional golem. We could get a lot of valuable information from analyzing it's inner workings up close, and I'm sure Eko would be glad to have the opportunity to take a look at it as well. There's also very little chance that we'll make it out of this confrontation without Eko realizing that we're a necromancer, or at least highly suspicious of us in regard to our ability. That might go badly but it's also kind of a secondary concern right now.
Post by: endlessblaze on April 13, 2015, 04:14:04 pm
look at it.
picture ourself in its body. seeing a humman and folowing its directive that drives it. see ourselves take humman soul.
then
control, give the lasting order to stop attacking hummans. then try to restore omo.
should this work. march the thing back to the city and restore the children.
after this, we can have revenge on it for makeing us worry about omo.
study it. make it a minion, whatever.
save explanations for how we did this for after we restore omo and the children.
Post by: monk12 on April 13, 2015, 06:11:01 pm
And since I'm guessing the reason we did not impair that necromantic soulgrabeer was because it moved too fast, we probably won't get a second chance.
This is indeed the case. You did stuff, then it did stuff. Now you get to do stuff, and depending on how that goes it gets to do stuff too.
On that note, if your vote is to Impair it you may want to specify what area you're starting with, since you won't be able to impair every single part of the construct in one go.
Post by: Baffler on April 13, 2015, 06:50:30 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 13, 2015, 06:57:53 pm
Whatever it's using to attack. Unless it looks like that would damage the soul, In which case we should go for whatever it's using to see/sense souls, something like its eyes.And since I'm guessing the reason we did not impair that necromantic soulgrabeer was because it moved too fast, we probably won't get a second chance.
This is indeed the case. You did stuff, then it did stuff. Now you get to do stuff, and depending on how that goes it gets to do stuff too.
On that note, if your vote is to Impair it you may want to specify what area you're starting with, since you won't be able to impair every single part of the construct in one go.
But if we end up going with the command one, we should also focus on what it should be feeling. When we controlled that rope golem, we could feel its body, we could feel what it was touching, we could even feel the dirt in it. So based on what it is and how its body parts are, how they are stained and dented, how the leather bends, we should try to feel those.
And if we succeed, we should tell Eko to not attack (or order the creature to retreat to a safer distance), in case that causes our command spell to fail (after all, the spell should be made out of necromantic energy and a necromantic abjuration could dispell that). We can worry about explaining, making excuses or coming clean later, when we're not all dead.
Still, I'd prefer the offensive one, using impair on it (while attacking it physically, trying to tear it apart, if possible). Mostly because its more emotional and it seems more... real, less cold and logical. Personal preference, I suppose.
Plus, we can make an excuse more easily later, something like "Oh, I must have damaged some important piece of the monster without realizing it during my frenzied attack."
Post by: Angle on April 13, 2015, 07:31:57 pm
Post by: Deep Waters on April 14, 2015, 05:03:06 am
Quote
It's just outside the range of your detailed Necromantic Sight, though you can still get a sense for the shape of the Necromantic energy animating the construct. A disproportionate amount of Vitality seems to be concentrated towards the front of the body; the head, perhaps. The body itself holds very little, serving more as a hub for energy to flow into the legs, pooling at the joints and trickling down each limb.
There is no time to discern details; only this glimpse. From the time you first sensed the construct to the time it burst into view has been only a handful of seconds. Now it is directly beneath Omo, and though its body ceases its frantic movement the speed of its actions transfers immediately to the realm of Necromancy. To your eyes, a fine rope of Necromantic energy seems to erupt from the "head" of the monster, snaking up between the branches before coiling around Omo's head. There is a whipping motion as the rope of Necromantic energy curls into a ball and snaps back towards the creature.
These observations may be the key to determining how we can defeat the monster and save Omo. I agree with Parisbre's suggestion of attempting to damage the golem, with the exception that, assuming we're thinking clearly enough, I want to destroy its legs. Remember, what can't reach you can't hurt you, and it got pretty close to Omo before it attacked him. That indicates that it has a relatively short range. I'd like to impair at least three of its legs first, and preferably up to five to slow it as much as possible without depriving us of the opportunity to study its structure later (unless we're panicking, of course, in which case go the "realistic character" route). Then, we can either destroy its method of attack or attempt to command it without risking further harm. The former is a more emotional and believable response, while the latter is more helpful in the long run-- though it's rather cold for taking care of a monster that may have just killed our best friend. In case it isn't obvious, I would prefer the former.
Speaking of which, the most important question when it comes to saving Omo may be this: Did that whip-like motion steal/damage/destroy something that we can't see with Necromantic Sight (like a soul), or did it steal/damage/destroy something we can see (like a vitality network)? If the former, we better hope destroying or examining that construct miraculously gives us the ability to restore those things to normal, because otherwise we'll be as helpless to fix Omo as we were to fix the children earlier. If it instead damaged something with that whip-like motion, however, we might be able to repair it. Examining a healthy vitality network more completely may help-- we might be able to get Eko to cooperate with some carefully-worded arguments. We're certainly desperate enough to try it.
Post by: Dani on April 14, 2015, 06:15:03 am
It's a feeling of closeness that is strongest when you focus on it's Necromantic Sight and what it feels, but weakest when considering what it sees and what its body is. You sense that Command Undead is possible, but you do not yet know enough about it to make the spell resolve.If we don't have enough time for that, try commanding it while using focusing on its Necromantic sight and what it feels, variations on that, maybe a body that isn't what we saw externally? A crystal or other small object at the "head" of the golem? We probably have to imagine something that can be turned into a golem, from how we commanded that rope doll from forever ago. Definitely don't try focusing on its light sight again. The command undead can wait for when the construct is unable to flee our line of sight, since it might take a while to find the correct empathy.
Also, after seeing Kiros' spell list in part 25, I conclude that Detect Undead doesn't work on golems. Are there any other occurrences where golems are not treated as undead by Order magic? The rope golem counted as 'undead' for the Command Undead spell, though.
Alternative "plan": Steal all of its Vitality and shove that into Omo. Party gains another elf with countless voices in his head telling him what to do.
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 14, 2015, 06:51:51 am
And it is safer, assuming it doesn't have more than one of those rope things, since we aren't sure if we have enough empathy to cast Command, but we are certain we'll be able to see its necromantic energy once we're close enough.
If we can pair that with a physical attack (jumping at it from above maybe, assuming it's a safe-ish height), it would be even better, since it would help deflect suspicion.
Just got to make sure Eko won't cast an abjuration while we're casting. Maybe tell him to focus on Omo instead, if we see him trying anything.
And Steal Vitality does not maintain the structure of the vitality taken, it simply takes it and shoves it into something else. We, on the other hand, need to maintain the configuration of Omo's soul, assuming it's intact. We need to either control Omo's vitality while maintaining its structure by creating a field of necromantic energy similar to the one the creature used, something like an orb made out of necromantic energy or just command the creature to try to do it for us (although I trust us more than I trust it).
Post by: Andres on April 14, 2015, 06:57:56 am
Post by: Dani on April 14, 2015, 07:12:09 am
PEdit:
we could just let the thing eat our soul.
Unfortunately, this is very likely to get you killed.I would support this, but no visible plot armor.
Post by: Deep Waters on April 14, 2015, 07:40:29 am
+1 for impair. In the legs. Also tell Eko to stand down because Abjuration will chase off the creature and we'll have to find it again while lugging around our ranger's empty body. Also also we don't want him to interrupt our spells as well.
Minor Abjuration might make it stop moving altogether, or it might give us a chance to find out if it has some sort of homebase that it operates from if it runs off. Neither of those are worth risking him interrupting or detecting the nature of our spells, however, nor is it worth potentially destroying or losing the construct itself. If we do this, I would like us to emphasize that latter reason-- without taking the creature at least partially intact, we might not have a chance of being able to find out what's wrong with him/the children.
But impair undead requires us to be very close, close enough for our detailed necromantic sight to kick in. That means that we'll probably be close enough to be attacked. Better (and cheaper) to impair its method of attack or its eyes/sensors. It would be safer and the only other time we used impair undead we impaired its eyes so we know it's possible. Purely from a scientific standpoint, impairing its method of attack (the rope thing) and then going for the legs (or trying to command it again, if that's what people want) is better, since we can probably replicate the necromantic energy of its rope but studying its eyes and their ability to detect souls/living things/vitality could help us put that in our zombies/golems. Plus, keeping the eyes intact would make attaining the required empathy for command easier.
And it is safer, assuming it doesn't have more than one of those rope things, since we aren't sure if we have enough empathy to cast Command, but we are certain we'll be able to see its necromantic energy once we're close enough.
If we can pair that with a physical attack (jumping at it from above maybe, assuming it's a safe-ish height), it would be even better, since it would help deflect suspicion.
Just got to make sure Eko won't cast an abjuration while we're casting. Maybe tell him to focus on Omo instead, if we see him trying anything.
And Steal Vitality does not maintain the structure of the vitality taken, it simply takes it and shoves it into something else. We, on the other hand, need to maintain the configuration of Omo's soul, assuming it's intact. We need to either control Omo's vitality while maintaining its structure by creating a field of necromantic energy similar to the one the creature used, something like an orb made out of necromantic energy or just command the creature to try to do it for us (although I trust us more than I trust it).
That is true-- the bit about Impair Undead already requiring us to be close to the creature, that is. I highly doubt Omo had climbed more than 30ft. up a tree, but it's certainly riskier than I initially thought. I still think attacking the legs would be the safest option, but let's go for attacking its necromantic rope-thing if we can, and the construct's eyes/sensors if we can't. A physical attack would be highly inadvisable, however, since that thing can move fast-- it might be capable of whipping our souls out in mid-air, let alone something as relatively slow as charging at it. This isn't even mentioning that a safe height to drop from would probably be much lower than how high Omo was when the creature got him (speaking of which, he better not have landed on his head; the last thing he needs if we manage to fix him is permanent brain damage). Let's not set up precautions for a probable death scenario that involve inviting a far more imminent death scenario. It definitely doesn't have more than one rope, though, otherwise it would've been able to take down both of the children at once, rather than one at a time. Also, where's the field/orb of necromantic energy coming from? All I see is the rope of necromantic energy.
If we get desperate enough, we could just let the thing eat our soul. With our necromantic ability, we might be able to do something to it from the inside, like control it. Then we'd get all the souls trapped within it, dump it into our own body, use our necro-magic to keep the other souls suppressed, murder the bronze curse spider-dog, return Omo and childrens' bodies, then regurgitate the rest of the souls so they can freely go to the afterlife.
There are a lot of assumptions in that suggestion, all of which must be true for it to not be a complete waste of everything. Assuming that necromancy is tied to our soul, assuming that necromancy can be used without a body (even if it is tied to the soul), assuming that the souls aren't destroyed upon being eaten, assuming that stealing souls is what the creature is doing in the first place... the list goes on. It's much better to run away and regroup for another assault later than to take an extremely unnecessary risk for an unlikely payoff. It's already probable enough that we're going to be Nearly-Soulless Nym very soon; let's not make that a certainty.
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 14, 2015, 08:07:40 am
Quote
To your eyes, a fine rope of Necromantic energy seems to erupt from the "head" of the monster, snaking up between the branches before coiling around Omo's head. There is a whipping motion as the rope of Necromantic energy curls into a ball and snaps back towards the creature.So it looks like it tried to take his soul intact, unless that was simply an attempt to ensure it took his entire soul.
I dunno. Maybe necromancers can boost their power with souls? That's why it is keeping them? Maybe that's one of the reasons the other necromancers got so much power so quickly?
Post by: Baffler on April 14, 2015, 09:02:44 am
attacking its necromantic rope-thing if we can, and the construct's eyes/sensors if we can't.
I'm convinced, +1. We can work out what's going on after the construct is no longer a threat.
Post by: endlessblaze on April 14, 2015, 09:06:40 am
attacking its necromantic rope-thing if we can, and the construct's eyes/sensors if we can't.
I'm convinced, +1. We can work out what's going on after the construct is no longer a threat.
-1 no impairment ESPECIALLY to places related to soul stealing. The risk we hurt omo's and the children's souls is to high. As it stands control is risky becasue for all we know we could overide an order that keeps the souls intact.
We need to control.....I just hope it's not to late. (And that we don't make things worse)
Post by: syvarris on April 15, 2015, 12:13:19 am
I'm tempted to suggest we try to contest its control of Omo's soul. It could be the only way to save Omo, aside from commanding the thing. On the other hand, we probably can't beat the thing when it has the initiative AND experience. Plus, we wouldn't even know what to do with the soul when we got it.
Impair undead, aiming to disable the legs on one side, IF it is already within range. If it isn't already within range, Command Undead, imagining yourself as a sort of puppetmaster; controlling the body with strings of necromancy, and sensing more than seeing the tendril of energy that's reaching away.
In any case, yell at Eko to stay back.
Post by: monk12 on April 17, 2015, 06:18:12 pm
impairing its method of attack (the rope thing (unless we can't see it, in which case we should go for the eyes)) and then going for the legs (or trying to command it again, if that's what people want)
If we can pair that with a physical attack (jumping at it from above maybe, assuming it's a safe-ish height), it would be even better, since it would help deflect suspicion.
In any case, yell at Eko to stay back.
Eko rushes forward, his curses giving way to soft, rythmic chants as he prepares to cast Minor Abjuration. You drop from your tree and pound after him. "Eko, stay back! I can disrupt it!"
Eko stumbles to a halt, turning to question you further, but you are focused on the monster that has attacked your best friend and is now turning to face you. Now that you have moved closer the underpinnings of its network of Necromantic Energy are much easier to discern. It's quite intricate, with Vitality moving in more complicated ways than you've seen in any zombie, but three areas jump out to you; the places where the legs join the body, the "head" (which is simpler than you might have guessed, though it does have two structures that look like more complex versions of the eyes you made for your Rope Golem,) and a confused jumble in the heart of the construct.
There's no time for further examination. You don't see any coiled ropes of Necromantic energy or anything that looks like the weapon it used to attack Omo, but you reason that it can't hurt you if it can't see you. You carefully extend your own will towards the construct, feeling the shape of the Necromantic energy in its head. You cup the lumps of energy you presume to be its "eyes," and squeeze.
Impair Undead
As expected, the Necromantic Energy in the "eyes" unravels in a flash, seeming to disappear. The construct shudders to a halt and for a moment stands perfectly still, almost in surprise. Abruptly the monster spins and begins running back the way it came, blindly crashing through brush and careening off of trees, somehow correcting itself to continue in roughly the same direction.
You glance behind yourself. Eko kneels over Omo's crumpled and unresponsive body; seeing the monster run off he rises to his feet. "What now, Nym? Omo's down!"
"I know!" You ruthlessly quash a rush of panic, fear, and anger; you don't have time for it right now. "Help me catch it! Break its legs, but don't break it!"
Not waiting for his reply, you turn and run after the construct yourself. It isn't hard to catch up; though the monster's six legs seem to give it good stability and keep it from falling over it is still quite clumsy without its sight, constantly tripping over roots and fallen branches. You get in range for another Impair Undead when it runs straight into a long log, nearly falling over before it begins scraping along the side looking for a way around. This time you target the legs, but the joints connecting it to the rest of the body are much sturdier than what held the eyes on; if the eyes were leaves, the legs are a branch. You can't spare the attention to try and impair more than one leg at a time, picking at the knob of energy where the leg joins the body the same way you'd pick at a tightly tied knot. Slowly but surely you find purchase, and pull. The Necromantic energy between the body and the leg dissipates, the Vitality in the leg separated from the rest of the body.
The leg ceases to move, slowing the construct even further. You bite your lip, preparing to kill another leg. This has been quite mana-intensive, but you can't let it escape with Omo's soul. You prepare to cast another Impair Undead, but suddenly Eko bursts onto the scene with a scream and a spear-thrust. ... His first strike glances harmlessly off the bronze body of the golem, but Eko quickly changes his attack and stabs into the join between the leg and the rest of the body, piercing through the leather flaps protecting it. ... There is a brilliant flash of purple light, and the leg falls to the ground, completely severed from the rest of the body!
"Eko, wait a moment!" You call out, not wanting Eko to inadvertently destroy the monster in his zeal to disable it. With two legs on the same side of its body disabled the construct lurches and falls to the ground. Though its limbs flail wildly, they have too little range of motion to seriously threaten you or Eko. The construct continues its escape attempts, pitifully attempting to drag itself away inch by inch. You suppose that if you were to leave it all night it might eventually get someplace, but for now you have more pressing concerns; the welfare of Omo Thunderjaw.
"Have we done it, then?" Eko asks nervously. You don't reply immediately. Now that you have the opportunity to study the inner workings of the construct, there are two areas of interest to you. The first is the "head" area, where you clearly have ripped away whatever passes for eyes. It seems much simpler than the Vitality you detected in Ado's head, or even the cursory examination you made of the zombie soldiers. It is the headwater for every stream of Vitality within the creature, but little more; no bizarre patterns or intricate permutations here. There are two more "knobs" of Necromantic energy on either side of the head, reminiscent of the eyes.
The new bundle of Vitality in its heart though... now that's intricate, incredibly so. The Vitality there is a rather small fraction of the rest of the creature's, and seems largely segregated from it too. However, the bundle of Necromantic energy holding everything in place is much more convoluted than anything else in the creature, or any Necromantic creation you've seen before. In fact, the only thing it compares to is the ball of Vitality within the skull of Ado Drunkenstumbles.
The construct is at your mercy, and Omo remains in dire straits. What now?
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Your Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Eko Cleanvise (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Eko's Spells (click to show/hide)
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Post by: Shadestyle on April 17, 2015, 06:23:48 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 17, 2015, 06:36:41 pm
Probably either see vitality or command undead... We could use see vitality to compare its vitality with things around that, but we're not sure if that will work or provide anything immediately useful. Probably better to focus on Omo. But we don't want to waste too much mana... I need to think about this. If the thing starts destroying Omo's soul...
Wait, when you say new, you mean it wasn't there before or that we couldn't see how intricate it was before?
Post by: Angle on April 17, 2015, 06:39:02 pm
We probably also want to consider what we say to Eko. He's probably going to figure us out pretty soon.
Post by: endlessblaze on April 17, 2015, 08:06:48 pm
Post by: Angle on April 17, 2015, 08:09:12 pm
Post by: endlessblaze on April 17, 2015, 08:11:06 pm
Post by: Angle on April 17, 2015, 08:14:33 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 17, 2015, 08:33:12 pm
But if we do command it, we should first check its previous orders.
Post by: Andres on April 17, 2015, 08:50:48 pm
Post by: monk12 on April 17, 2015, 10:15:47 pm
Yes! Still alive! I was so afraid to click the link, thinking I might find a giant "YOU ARE DEAD! PLAY AGAIN? Y/N".
Don't worry, I promise you were never in danger of seeing that screen. Of course, that's because it would have said "YOU ARE DEAD! THANKS FOR PLAYING!" instead, so maybe you should still be a little afraid.
But Omo is still in danger.
Probably either see vitality or command undead... We could use see vitality to compare its vitality with things around that, but we're not sure if that will work or provide anything immediately useful. Probably better to focus on Omo. But we don't want to waste too much mana... I need to think about this. If the thing starts destroying Omo's soul...
Wait, when you say new, you mean it wasn't there before or that we couldn't see how intricate it was before?
When I say new, I mean you did not notice it at all on your previous glimpse.
Post by: RAM on April 18, 2015, 02:27:16 am
If we can locate Omo's soul, then attempt to return it directly, learning whatever method is necessary.
If we cannot locate Omo's soul, then Attempt to control the beasty and have it cease any soul processing and perhaps release its most recent food.
Also, avoid manhandling it too much. It is still armed, and may be able to make sufficient inferences by way of whatever faculties remain to initiate an attack. Also note that if its weapons are disabled then it cannot simply reverse the process that it used to take the soul.
Post by: Andres on April 18, 2015, 02:36:47 am
If we cannot locate Omo's soul, then Attempt to control the beasty and have it cease any soul processing and perhaps release its most recent food.-1! Oh my god! Its current "soul processing" might be the thing keeping the soul inside its body (unless I missed something in the update and it is tearing it apart) and simply getting it to release the soul would leave it free in the open air where it would stick around as a ghost at best or move on at worst. "Releasing" is not an option. Grabbing it and manipulating it around like we would vitality would be safer.
Post by: Deep Waters on April 18, 2015, 09:46:10 am
Do not do anything that would reveal our nature just yet-- not only could we potentially cause problems if we rush into things without having the slightest hint of what we're doing, but we don't know how Eko would react. Let's not risk revealing ourselves unless it's necessary. However, if the creature appears to be affecting the ball in any way (destroying it, processing it, etc.), immediately try commanding it to stop. Saving Omo's soul is ultimately more important than our secret.
A few side notes: Those two knobs on the side of its head that are similar to eyes may be its ears. At least, that would explain how well it navigated even without its eyes. I'm tempted to say we should impair those too, just to be safe, but we have our mana reserves to think of... Furthermore, where was the construct trying to run to? Was it following orders to retreat to some predefined safe area if injured, or does it have some rudimentary survival instincts?
Post by: Angle on April 18, 2015, 11:45:19 am
Post by: Baffler on April 18, 2015, 05:24:34 pm
A few side notes: Those two knobs on the side of its head that are similar to eyes may be its ears. At least, that would explain how well it navigated even without its eyes. I'm tempted to say we should impair those too, just to be safe, but we have our mana reserves to think of... Furthermore, where was the construct trying to run to? Was it following orders to retreat to some predefined safe area if injured, or does it have some rudimentary survival instincts?
This is an interesting question. The fact that it tried to run in a specific direction no matter how hard it had to try to get around an obstacle seems to suggest that it does have a "lair" somewhere. We should note the direction it was fleeing to maybe investigate later after we get things sorted here. On the other hand the enormous complexity of the energy within the construct, on par with a living person's brain, could suggest some sort of specialized but rudimentary intelligence.
It's attack was very programmatic, it came at us from the center of the forest at full speed then attacked the one closest to it: Omo. It presumably intended to do that until we were all downed. But attacking tiny groups of travelers stupid enough to go into the forest wasn't its original purpose. It was put into Aloclesno to destroy Girus the Fox's army: a large group of organized, seasoned, heavily armed Imperial soldiers. Eko broke the construct pretty effectively on his own with his reservist's spear and minimal training (I grant that it was blind and in ill repair) and its attack has enough of a cooldown for us to charge it alone, suggesting it could have been destroyed if it was attacked en masse. An open attack on the army's camp would have been incredibly risky for it but it still managed to attack dozens of men overnight, presumably as they slept or stood watch at the perimeter. That requires stealth and planning to avoid detection, and those both require intelligence. Maybe it hides out in the center of the forest to more quickly reach intruders now, but it operated more fluidly back in the day because its circumstances were different.
It really shows just how skilled Balkoth was to be able to create something like this, but it also raises the question of why would he make something as convoluted (and apparently reversible) as this when the golem could have just killed those men for the same effect? Was it psychological warfare, simple cruelty, or is there more going on here?
Post by: Angle on April 18, 2015, 05:45:02 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 21, 2015, 07:09:58 am
Or it could simply help it find its way through he forest, like a GPS, pointing it towards that centre it was running towards.
About actions.... I'll suggest a compromise.
First of all, how did the creature's vitality change during all this? Did it gain any (that we could notice, anyway) when it took Omo's soul? Did it loose any when we impaired it or when Eko hit it?
Eko has a lot of spare mana he is not using. So while we work on the creature, he creates a ward for this area. That should keep us safe from any other creatures that could possibly exist nearby. After that, he can go get Omo (or we can go get him if Eko is not done). I'm saying we should do that because the casting time for a ward will probably be less than carrying the monster back to our current ward.
If he can cast the spell quickly, he should also use detect magic on it, just in case he can sense more than one magic sources in it (meaning there is perhaps another spell or enchantment or similar on the creature).
If possible and necessary (that means, if there's any chance of the creature escaping the area in the next 20 minutes), use that rope Omo is carrying to chain the monster to a nearby tree or other sturdy object to ensure it doesn't get away. If there's no chance of it escaping while we try to gain the empathy needed to cast command undead, then wait and do this after trying command undead if we have not managed to stop it. If Omo and his rope is not back yet, then see if we could use a belt or some clothing something, in case we're lucky and it's really close to something that looks sturdy. Try not to touch the golem while doing so (do something like making a noose and then pulling. Nym was a fisherelf, she should know a thing or two about knots). Make sure to note the direction it is going towards, since it could become important later.
Try using command undead again. Maybe use a stick to poke those flaps and get a better look at its insides in order to gain better empathy. Our goal to get an idea of what its orders, memories and capabilities are and to stop it from trying to escape and to stop it from doing anything bad to Omo's soul if possible and to see if it has any limbs or necromantic ropes or similar that could be used to restore Omo's soul.
When Omo is back (or when we bring him back) we should use see vitality to inspect the vitality inside the creature and inside Omo and find where their connecting points are. We should focus on the complex necromantic energy in the "body" of the creature, since that's more likely to be his soul. Then work on transferring that INTACT by maintaining the necromantic energy that holds the network together and enhancing it if need be and then transferring that to Omo's head and connecting it to the appropriate points (use necromantic energy to strengthen the connections if possible, if it looks like they are not re-established automatically). Remember, we don't want an amorphous blob of vitality, we want to preserve its structure. Use the creature if it would help.
If at any point during all this we are low on mana and can't be confident we can continue without hurting ourselves (assume that soul transfer will take twice the MP of steal vitality) drink that mana potion.
Obviously, stop if any of the above assumptions turn out wrong. No need to transfer the golem's soul into Omo's.
Post by: Andres on April 21, 2015, 07:33:05 am
Post by: Iituem on April 25, 2015, 04:37:08 pm
Post by: monk12 on April 27, 2015, 12:30:09 pm
Everyone else has already suggested the sort of things I would suggest, so let's keep it relatively simple while hopefully covering all our bases: Examine the creature's vitality more closely, paying special attention to anything that might allow us to separate the more intricate ball of vitality from the rest of the creature without harming the ball (perhaps checking to make sure the vitality ball isn't interconnected with the creature's vitality network in any way, and if so taking note of weak points in the connections in the hopes we can sever them cleanly). Also, ask Eko if he can do any divinations on it.
Do not do anything that would reveal our nature just yet-- not only could we potentially cause problems if we rush into things without having the slightest hint of what we're doing, but we don't know how Eko would react. Let's not risk revealing ourselves unless it's necessary. However, if the creature appears to be affecting the ball in any way (destroying it, processing it, etc.), immediately try commanding it to stop. Saving Omo's soul is ultimately more important than our secret.
A few side notes: Those two knobs on the side of its head that are similar to eyes may be its ears. At least, that would explain how well it navigated even without its eyes. I'm tempted to say we should impair those too, just to be safe, but we have our mana reserves to think of... Furthermore, where was the construct trying to run to? Was it following orders to retreat to some predefined safe area if injured, or does it have some rudimentary survival instincts?
We should definitely See Vitality just to get a better understanding of the thing before we do anything with it. Get Eko to bring Omo's body to us. Omo's body is probably lighter than the thing's and we'll need the body on hand if we need to do an emergency soul transfer.
"This is the Curse of Aloclesno?" Eko asks uneasily, edging towards the struggling golem. He seems to be out of his element and unsure how to proceed. "I somehow expected more."
"We're not out of the forest yet." You say decisively. "Let's drag this over to Omo; or better yet, let's bring Omo over here. He probably weighs less than this metal hulk."
You join Eko in grabbing Omo's limp body by the legs, dragging him over the forest floor. The construct continues its pitiful escape attempts, churning the earth as it drags itself away by inches. With one last pull you lay Omo's body on his back near the construct, his sightless eyes staring at the canopy. You turn away, taking a deep calming breath. It's alright. You can fix this.
"Okay." You say quietly. "I hope- I think this thing is holding on to Omo's soul, but we need to be sure. Can you cast that spell to check? Diagnosis?"
"I have nothing to lose by trying." Eko replies. He slips one hand inside a pocket on his pack, withdrawing a stick of white chalk. He hesitates over the construct, then begins tracing his triangle and circle symbol, flinching away whenever the creature lurches forward.
While Eko begins his spell, you begin casting your own. Casting See Vitality fails to reveal any new insights into the workings of the construct itself, but it does give you a fine basis for comparison between Eko and Omo. Omo's vitality strongly resembles that of the soulless children; a limp ripple trickling from his head, in comparison to the strong surge you can observe in Eko. Like the children, Omo lacks what Ado and Eko have; a bizarre, churning concentration of vitality writhing like a mass of snakes.
Looking at them side by side, that mass of vitality bears more than a passing resemblance to what you can see in the heart of the construct. They are both immensely convoluted, seeming to turn in on themselves in odd bends and swirls yet almost with a suggestion of underlying order, like an unbelievably intricate knot. Though it does not exactly replicate what you can see in Eko, it is close enough for you to think they must be of a kind.
However, there are two important differences between what you can see in Eko and what you can see in the construct. The first is that while Eko's ball of vitality is an intrinsic piece of his overall vitality network, the ball in the construct is almost a separate entity; it does not send pulses of vitality to the rest of the construct, nor does vitality flow back into it. The second is that Eko's vitality ball seems... unconstrained. It is a natural pattern within his vitality. The vitality within the construct, however, is bound completely by the same sort of Necromantic energy that gives shape to the vitality in the rest of the construct. While you don't know what gives Eko's vitality its shape, you are confident you could impair the Necromantic energy in the heart of the construct and the vitality within would flow away, losing cohesion and form. You doubt it would maintain its pattern the way Eko's seems to. If the construct's ball of vitality is in the shape of a bottle, then so is Eko's, but without the bottle. You don't see an empty bottle in Omo to fill.
You take another look at the Necromantic Energy forming the rest of the construct. Unlike the zombies you've encountered which mainly had their "tubes" of Necromantic energy enveloped entirely within the body of the corpse, the construct seems to have a thin web of Necromantic energy across the exterior of the bronze body. The body only, and not the legs which as expected have their Necromantic energy located in the core. You do not know if the construct has some mechanism to open itself to pass the "soul-ball" of vitality through- perhaps the denser stuff near the head- but you are confident that you could impair enough of the construct's "skin" to create a passage you could use.
"Nym..." Eko says warily, unsure of himself. "This thing is unlike any vitality network I've examined before. It seems simpler in some ways, but there are other things I simply do not recognize."
"Is there anything that looks like a soul to you?" You ask intently.
Eko runs a hand through his thin hair. "I don't... maybe. There's something in the heart of this monster that feels like a soul, but it is faint, very faint, almost incomplete." Eko shakes his head, scowling in frustration. "You said that you were a Life Mage; surely you know better than I!"
Technically you never said any such thing, but you are in no rush to correct that particular misconception. "I felt the same thing. I think that must be the key." You say more confidently than you feel.
Eko clenches his fists, taking an unconscious step towards you. "Then you can save him! The monster doesn't win this time!"
You lick your lips nervously, somewhat taken aback by Eko's vehemence. Can you find a way to save Omo? You sense that a mistake here could be costly.
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Your Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Eko Cleanvise (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Eko's Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: endlessblaze on April 27, 2015, 12:36:39 pm
then using emotions and mental images order it to return omo's soul
Post by: Angle on April 27, 2015, 12:48:32 pm
Imagine yourself as a cold machine, with only one purpose - hunting souls. Imagine time passing - years, decades, centuries (If applicable).
Then, if we can get the spell to resolve, first ask the thing if there are any more like it, and what it's previous orders were. Learn everything you can about how it works, and then see if you can get it to reverse it's ability.
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 27, 2015, 02:53:03 pm
And we should not order it anything, so that its original orders are not overwritten. We should look at what its current orders are and what memories and mental images it has stored for those orders. Unless it looks like it's hurting Omo's soul, in which case we should order it to stop.
The above should give us an idea of what it can do and if it has any inherent capabilities and what those are. Then we can judge if we can use those abilities to help Omo (like, for example, ordering it to use the rope attack in reverse).
If that doesn't work, then we can work on maintaining the necromantic energy holding Omo's soul intact and slowly and carefully try moving it around, first inside the creature and if that works, then opening a hole in the creature's "necromantic carapace" and letting the soul out and guiding it into Omo.
@Angle: We know that necromantic constructs tend to not be very... human like. They usually do not have thoughts of their own and do not have any memories beyond what they need to fulfil their orders. Sure, this might be a more complex construct but we should not count on it being more complex than it has to be. I'm pretty sure great necromancers follow the KISS principle.
It's better to imagine what it feels, since we know that we could feel the dirt in our rope golem. So it should be able to feel its entire body, the dirt on it, things like that. And it should probably be able to move parts of its body and parts of its necromantic network, so we should account for that, the rope thing especially. And possibly try multiple possibilities for the two sensor orbs, configurations such as ears, balance sensors, long range soul sensors and whatever else you can come up with. Although I guess imagining its possible orders couldn't hurt.
Did we see any difference in Eko's vitality as he was casting the spell? Not important right now, but it might give us more insight about how mana or order magic works.
It's a bit worrying that Eko said that the soul feels damaged. Hopefully it's the XP-loss kind of damage and not the skill/memory-loss kind of damage. Especially if it erases the memory of us telling him we're a necromancer. Travelling with two people who think we're a life mage would be hard. And the fact that we could fail at this is even more worrying.
We should look into making a necromantic shield of sorts to protect us and our allies from necromantic spells, if we go hunting for more of these creatures (assuming more exist). Or maybe Eko will just share the info about what the creature is (or maybe bring the creature back alive, although that would be hard for us since it would paint us as a hero but also put us under scrutiny) and others can take care of hunting them now that they are nothing more supernatural than magic. Although I would like to investigate further into the forest, in case there is a mother creature or a soul repository. I suppose reading the creature's mind would help in that regard.
Then again, necromantic shields would also be good if we go up against other necromancers, so they're probably a good investment/avenue of research. Not to mention the potential for necromantic weapons that deal direct damage to necromancy and vitality that research might yield.
Post by: Andres on April 27, 2015, 04:39:15 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 27, 2015, 05:09:55 pm
As for why to keep the souls, there are many reasons. Consider the fact that this was made during a period when humans were fighting a guerrilla war against the necromancer, using hiding and hit and run tactics and recruiting civilians to counter the necromantic army's superiority in arms and numbers. Souls, assuming they retain at least part of the owner's memories, could be a very efficient way to "interrogate" people and learn about where the resistance is hiding and what its plans are. We know that necromancers can probably read minds or do something similar.
Or maybe the creature is using the souls to help repair damage done to it. Maybe it can use it to acquire not only vitality but also mana.
Or maybe the necromancer could use souls to increase his power, maybe they have something special that can grant them more power. Or maybe he can simply more easily use their vitality that way. We know that the elven homeland was destroyed by having all the vitality siphoned out of it and some say that all the vitality Balkoth took from out was used to increase his power and the size of his army.
Or maybe they can be used to do things like dreamscaping, since minds and souls are one of the things that are guaranteed to be connected to other planes like the dream plane. Maybe he was planning to use them in some sort of dark ritual to further increase his power or access another realm, perhaps to in order to summon something.
Post by: RAM on April 29, 2015, 05:51:15 pm
My other idea is to Try to move the soul container intact back to Omo, which would possibly turn him into some sort of self-possessed living/undead hybrid...
Oh, and attempt to study the soul container, it is a valuable insight into soul manipulation.
Post by: Parisbre56 on May 02, 2015, 08:32:41 am
Hm... Wonder if the thing that normally holds the soul in the body, the "natural soul bottle" is naturally occurring life magic or simply biology...
Post by: RAM on May 02, 2015, 01:21:51 pm
Oh, and if it looks like the soul bottle is missing vitality or if Omo's soul vitality looks low after we transfer it, add some of ours into it. Try to do it via touch if it looks appropriate. And as always, if we're running out of mana, drink that potion./b]+1
Post by: Gwythur on May 05, 2015, 10:46:10 am
If we manage to command undead, then the first thing we should do is use the added empathy command undead gives us to sense the body of the construct (both mundane and the part made out of necromantic energy) to get an idea of its abilities.
And we should not order it anything, so that its original orders are not overwritten. We should look at what its current orders are and what memories and mental images it has stored for those orders. Unless it looks like it's hurting Omo's soul, in which case we should order it to stop.
I agree with this wholeheartedly, for two reasons:
(1) This is probably our best bet for learning about souls without murdering another sentient being. We may be able to learn how to restore or transfer the soul back to Omo on our own with more understanding. If we can't do it, can the golem restore souls as well as take them? We may be able to restore the two soulless children back in town. Eko tells us that with proper care of the children's bodies, they will remain in their current state, so they can be cured once the knight leaves.
(2) Using our empathic bond while controlling the golem is the only link we currently have for breaking the curse of the forest, and learning more about the mind of the necromancer who created it. Before overwriting the golem with our own orders, try to learn more about the curse/golem. Are its orders more complex than we have previously tried, like those of the zombie in the temple? Are there more of these golems? Does it have a lair? Are the captured souls stored somewhere, or consumed to fuel the necromantic energies in the golem?
We may need to have Eko distracted while we use necromancy to study the golem. He doesn't seem to have noticed what we've done so far, but commanding the golem may be a more obvious display of necromancy. Suggest that Eko do what he can to make Omo comfortable, and ask him to start setting up a campsite. We're probably going to be here a while. Explain that we are going to try to magically probe the golem if Eko asks. Be vague. Maybe Eko didn't learn his spells spontaneously the way we did, but he's likely to have heard of the phenomenon.
Further, I vote we stay in the forest as long as Eko isn't going to be missed. I'd like to avoid confrontation with that knight as much as possible. I also vote that we do not, under any circumstances, take the soul-stealing golem to town, just in case that needs to be said.
Post by: monk12 on May 08, 2015, 01:10:37 pm
establish empathy. do this by picturing us as the creature, hunting souls in accordance with its directive. if we can empathize with a rope, we can empathize with a soul stealing construct.
then using emotions and mental images order it to return omo's soul
If we manage to command undead, then the first thing we should do is use the added empathy command undead gives us to sense the body of the construct (both mundane and the part made out of necromantic energy) to get an idea of its abilities.
And we should not order it anything, so that its original orders are not overwritten. We should look at what its current orders are and what memories and mental images it has stored for those orders. Unless it looks like it's hurting Omo's soul, in which case we should order it to stop.
It's better to imagine what it feels, since we know that we could feel the dirt in our rope golem.
"Then you can save him! The monster doesn't win this time!"
You walk closer to the construct, kneeling down beside it. "I think I can, Eko. Whatever you see, don't interfere unless I ask, alright?"
Eko heaves a heavy sigh, leaning against a nearby tree. "As you say, Nym. Just... defeat this foul Necromancy. I was prepared to die to stop this monstrosity, but now... I wasn't prepared to stand by and watch it claim another victim."
You prepare to cast Command Undead once more. You think back to your first attempt, before Omo was taken. You felt you were close to merging with its awareness, but had no knowledge of its body. You have a much better idea of that now, however; a metal carapace with four working legs driving up and down, dragging one useless leg behind, a head to the fore and some kind of soul-sac in the body. You exert your will, and Command Undead.
You gain the expected doublevision associated with Command Undead, but something is wrong. It's not just that the construct is blind; it has some senses, including awareness of its own body and another sense you can't grasp right now. Rather, your awareness of the construct is murky and uncertain, and it does not reveal its mind to you or respond to your command.
When you attempt to tighten your grip on the mind of the construct, you can feel something pushing you back.
... No matter how you fumble and strain, your attempts to bring the creature under your control are thwarted by another presence, one that feels separate from the construct itself. You can sense it dimly when it opposes you directly- surprise, fear, anger, and some other loathsome feeling you can only express as a cockroach skittering in the corners of your mind- but not clearly, or for long; this other presence is too deft and powerful for you to latch onto, and it fights like a badger in its den. You quickly feel your own hold on the construct weakening, and despite your own clumsy defense of your willpower the construct is peeled out of your tenuous grasp like candy being taken by a stern adult.
You step back hesitantly as the spell dissolves, bewildered by what you experienced. The whole encounter took only seconds, and despite your failure you learned a lot. The construct doesn't have ears, for one thing; you sense that those bundles of vitality are sensory in nature, but they do something you couldn't access without full control. Your soul-sac hypothesis was bolstered by what you could sense of it; or rather what you couldn't sense. It was the only part of the construct you had zero awareness of, as though it wasn't even part of the construct. You get the feeling that it was definitely not the source of the other presence... a worrying prospect.
The construct does not cease its attempts to escape. Eko is clearly anxious and impatient, looking to you for any kind of update. Omo remains unconscious and soulless. What now?
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Your Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Eko Cleanvise (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Eko's Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: endlessblaze on May 08, 2015, 01:16:08 pm
Post by: Shadestyle on May 08, 2015, 01:17:23 pm
Post by: Angle on May 08, 2015, 01:39:28 pm
Post by: Descan on May 08, 2015, 01:46:47 pm
Ask Eko if he knows anything about contests of will between casters.Yeeeah that might be useful. Something like "There's something more here, not sure what."
Post by: 3man75 on May 08, 2015, 01:51:37 pm
Ask Eko if he knows anything about contests of will between casters.Yeeeah that might be useful. Something like "There's something more here, not sure what."
+1 and attempt to communicate with the undead through your command undead spell.
Post by: Baffler on May 08, 2015, 02:06:16 pm
Ask Eko if he knows anything about contests of will between casters.Yeeeah that might be useful. Something like "There's something more here, not sure what."
+1
Post by: Angle on May 08, 2015, 02:07:22 pm
Post by: Andres on May 08, 2015, 05:18:27 pm
Post by: Shadestyle on May 08, 2015, 06:28:34 pm
I think the necromancer sealed himself inside the golem - or maybe just his soul - and has been stealing souls either to prepare to revive him or to sustain him. A personal theory of mine is that he's trying to do the former, but doing so is actually impossible - he's just really desperate and maybe a bit insane.
Easy way to test that. Run a mundane blade along it and get a rock ready like you are going to crack it open. The worse it freaks out, the more likely that is true. (Don't ACTUALLY do it though.)
Post by: Andres on May 08, 2015, 06:50:38 pm
Post by: The Alchemist on May 08, 2015, 07:27:41 pm
It is possible that it is Omo's soul that was repelling our influence, but more importantly we already saw how the construct took Omo's soul in the first place
There is no time to discern details; only this glimpse. From the time you first sensed the construct to the time it burst into view has been only a handful of seconds. Now it is directly beneath Omo, and though its body ceases its frantic movement the speed of its actions transfers immediately to the realm of Necromancy. To your eyes, a fine rope of Necromantic energy seems to erupt from the "head" of the monster, snaking up between the branches before coiling around Omo's head. There is a whipping motion as the rope of Necromantic energy curls into a ball and snaps back towards the creature.I suggest that we imitate the construct and create our own rope of necromatic energy to try to grab the ball of vitality we believe to be Omo's soul and return it to his head.
Edit:
Additionally I believe this construct would have Omo's soul over a necromancer's since:
1. The "curse" (which for the most part appears to be the construct) was put in place over 1000 years ago
"Yes. Aloclesno is a cursed place, cursed by Balkoth the Necromancer more than a thousand years ago."2. Additionally from what I remember from reading the necromancer did this in order to route guerrilla fighters who were hiding in the forest and proceeded to fight much longer after this incident. Which means there wasn't much reason (unless there's an unseen benefit) to leaving a part of their soul in the construct.
3. The necromancer in question I believe was Golgothan and not an elf so even if they survived it is unlikely that they would have survived to this time.
4. If the necromancer left a part of their soul in the construct, I would think that they would do so to allow them greater control of the construct when they left the area in which they could control it, so I doubt that a construct like this if it had the necromancer's soul would be content with just sitting in a forest waiting to steal people's souls with large stretches of time between each capture.
Post by: Parisbre56 on May 08, 2015, 08:32:25 pm
Quote from: monk12
but clearly, or for long;I think a word got eaten there? Unless my knowledge of English is failing me.
Quote from: Baffler
It follows then that if the presence is away from us, and necromantic in nature, maybe try to command it while we're all inside of Eko's ward (or a new one if it's too far away). The ward's shielding effect might be enough to disrupt or remove whatever outside influence is keeping us from taking control of the construct.That's a good idea for a future experiment, but there are a few problems. If you remember, minor wards against necromancy work by altering and blocking necromantic senses. So unless those sensors are used to receive orders/magic (unlikely) it will not work. You'd need something like a major ward or better yet a sanctuary. And just to be on the safe side, ensure that such a ward will only disrupt spells going in or out of the area and not spells in the area itself, because if they disrupt the magic of the creature, we risk loosing it (and Omo's soul if we haven't gotten it fixed by then).
If we go with that suggestion, maybe tell him that we feel another presence. Like this thing is fighting our influence more than it should be able to and that this has to be coming from somewhere else. That we momentarily felt another presence or some of its feelings. Descriptive but keeping the details of what we were trying to do vague.Ask Eko if he knows anything about contests of will between casters.Yeeeah that might be useful. Something like "There's something more here, not sure what."
Eko has that trait Clarity that lets him resist things better. Maybe he could help us achieve a lesser form of that? Or some other kind of meditation that could aid us in mental combat?
I think the necromancer sealed himself inside the golem - or maybe just his soul - and has been stealing souls either to prepare to revive him or to sustain him. A personal theory of mine is that he's trying to do the former, but doing so is actually impossible - he's just really desperate and maybe a bit insane.That is very clearly not the case. It was stated that the opposing influence came from somewhere outside the golem. So it couldn't have been inside it. And we know that the one who is the assumed creator of the golem (Balkoth, unless I'm misremembering the name) died at the end of the Golgothan war somewhere very far away from this forest (Golgothan Swamps, the temple of Death if I remember correctly). Even if the golem was created by someone else, like one of Balkoth's necromancer lackeys and he/she had put her soul or even part of it in it, we would had been able to see it. Souls are incredibly complex, while the necromantic energy of the construct was very simple. Nym said it looked nothing like Omo's or Eko's soul.
That doesn't mean that there aren't souls involved though. Maybe Balkoth used the soul of one of his followers to create a semi-immortal golem administrator. A guy that has been imprisoned in some sort of construct and forced to follow certain orders and make the golems act a certain way. Or some variation of that. Maybe he's tasked with gathering souls. Has some sort of soul vault. Or soul fridge, if he's using them to sustain himself.
People expressed surprise that zombies were active so long after Balkoth died. Maybe spells (the continued existence and operation of magical energy of all faiths) need the wizard to be alive to continue functioning? Maybe that's what the administrator does, makes sure the constructs remain functional and continue following their orders by attaching their magic to him?
Or maybe it's related to the unexplained bypass of Eko's wards. We know that zombies somehow bypassed the wards. We know that zombies can bypass minor wards with command undead. And we know that whoever is controlling this thing is much more powerful and has much greater range than we do. Maybe the administrator influenced those zombies once they entered his range and made them bypass the wards? Or maybe Curo has found out about the golem and is using it for his own nefarious goals? Maybe he has obtained an artifact that can increase his range tremendously?
Although the administrator might not be fully human or fully sentient. Or maybe he can't control the golem fully. After all, if he could, he might have done something different with the golem. Maybe he's only part of someone's soul. Or maybe his dark feelings blind him.
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It is possible that it is Omo's soul that was repelling our influence,Possible, but not very likely. The feelings did not feel like Omo's, for one. And he'd have no reason to resist us, unless he is doing it unintentionally.
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I suggest that we imitate the construct and create our own rope of necromatic energy to try to grab the ball of vitality we believe to be Omo's soul and return it to his head.Not really necessary to make a rope. The soul is already inside a necromantic "bottle" of sorts. All we have to do is carefully move that bottle of necromantic energy.
That's going to be my long term suggestion. Just do the soul transfer now, then use our rope to tie the creature here for us to experiment on later while Eko takes care of Omo back in the camp and maybe makes a sanctuary or major Ward to make the experiment area safe and stop necromantic spells from entering it.
Post by: Gwythur on May 09, 2015, 02:03:37 am
Our more useful spells here seem to be steal vitality (already mentioned), command undead (which has already failed once, and doesn't seem likely to succeed if we try again), and alter golem/impair undead (which would require more thought, since we don't want to accidentally damage Omo's soul). Alternatively, we could try to sever the bond between the controller and the golem in some magical way that we're not currently aware of. Severing the bond may be easier without a contest of wills to control it.
Eko has 7 mana, but his spell list is somewhat less applicable to handling the golem than ours. If we tell him that there is an active mind controlling the golem, he may be able to use probe thoughts on it, but that spell "works less well on those who are strong of will." Probably worth trying, though, and it would still leave him enough mana for a major ward, should we decide we need one. Does anyone have an idea how minor abjuration might be applicable here? At some point in the future, we should teach Eko how to make mana potions when there's time and access to crystal.
I also think we need to fully immobilize the golem. I'm not sure that we're going to finish our experimentation today, based on our mana reserves. The leather bindings holding the legs on can be cut. I think we should remove all the golem's legs using our knife or hatchet.
Post by: RAM on May 09, 2015, 04:11:27 am
Given that this apparently drove off a relevant force of armed folk it stands to reason that it is not easily overcome with physical means. It is certainly dangerous, but one assumes that there were many horrors in the Golgothan armies and that its original target would have been willing to face such things, and it could probably have been bested by just rushing it. So it stands to reason that incapacitation of this sort is not permanent. And obvious hypothesis is that it is based somewhere, probably carries the souls that is collects back to its base, and may be one of many, and that the base has the means to repair and/or reproduce the beetle. Or possibly it is a grey goo scenario in which the beetles are the base... Whatever the case, it should not be considered secure if a duplicate would have the means to free itself. Perhaps we could hang it from a tree? They do not seem very bright, they may operate solely on the assumption that an object is secured to its nearest neighbour...
And the best course may be to give Eko the potion and have a sanctuary here to prevent external interference. If we can be confident that it will not harm the soul jar then it may be best to do that immediately and save our mana for defence should we be attacked while Eko is casting. It was a thousand years ago or some such, but what information we have suggests that its original victims had no magical resources and were more forced to leave rather than completely destroyed, so a sanctuary has no compelling reason to fail. That does leave us with the risk that the curse can reconstitute itself, but if we keep a watch that risk should be minimal.
I also feel compelled to point out that as limited as its senses may be, direct physical contact between it and something with a soul is probably a really bad idea.
The way I see it we have two options, the first being to try reversing what happened, which may be a one-way process. It doesn't seem likely that it was designed to be reversed, but the process may be innately reversible and there may be some function of the curse that requires placing the souls in a similar receptacle to that which they were taken from, I mean, they must do something with them, and a grey-goo needs sustenance...
The second method would be to do it manually, which would mean learning soul manipulation from studying an example device that is largely automated and we are not inclined to disassemble too vigorously and remembering the one time that we witnessed it in operation. Learning to contain, or at least maintain containment of a soul, transferring that soul into a vitality network without damaging either, and then integrating the soul with its owner, well, seems like something that might involve risks of catastrophic failure...
There is a third option, drag Omo and the curse to a more qualified mage, possibly a Life mage... There is some risk that the curse can track the beetle and that we will be besiged as long as we keep it...
Post by: The Alchemist on May 09, 2015, 01:33:36 pm
The way I see it we have two options, the first being to try reversing what happened, which may be a one-way process. It doesn't seem likely that it was designed to be reversed, but the process may be innately reversible and there may be some function of the curse that requires placing the souls in a similar receptacle to that which they were taken from, I mean, they must do something with them, and a grey-goo needs sustenance...The way I see it is that the third option is essentially off the table for us. The only life mages that we know of are the elves who wouldn't be to happy with the fact that we left and are days away, not to mention that Omo's condition may be rendered irreversible at some point during the days that it takes us to find a qualified life mage. As for any other mage, right now the main magical faith that is practiced is Order magic so most mages we would meet would be Order mages and Eko already knows some Order magic. Additionally any other mages that we could find are likely to be at least a few days away from where we are.
The second method would be to do it manually, which would mean learning soul manipulation from studying an example device that is largely automated and we are not inclined to disassemble too vigorously and remembering the one time that we witnessed it in operation. Learning to contain, or at least maintain containment of a soul, transferring that soul into a vitality network without damaging either, and then integrating the soul with its owner, well, seems like something that might involve risks of catastrophic failure...
There is a third option, drag Omo and the curse to a more qualified mage, possibly a Life mage... There is some risk that the curse can track the beetle and that we will be besiged as long as we keep it...
The other two options seem the most likely to work, which is essentially finding a way to direct Omo's soul to where we want it, or trying to do some soul manipulation magic which I think is similar to the spell the construct did which seems to be divided into three parts:
1. send a probe of necromatic energy (we directly saw this).
2. Have that energy encircle the piece of vitality we wish to move (We didn't see this, but it could be inferred as that is how we would "grab" a bundle of vitality)
3. Direct the energy to where we want it to be.
I already suggested the spell option, and in practice it seems to be a more advanced/specific steal vitality spell so it is reasonable that we should be able to cast it. Right now the main concern is our mana, so let's focus on helping Omo, we don't know what's happening to the soul but being away from the body can't be good, we can figure out how this thing works when everyone is safe not before.
Post by: RAM on May 09, 2015, 06:21:23 pm
There is a whole host of elements here that steal vitality just doesn't interact with. Steal vitality suggests, but does not confirm that we have the necessary tools, but there is nothing to suggest that we have the skills. Doing this ourselves would require creating a brand new spell.
Also note that in all the previous attempts to fix this by professional mages, the original soul has not been available, so seeking help is not as futile as it may at first appear, but any of the options that I can see seem fraught with risk. Simply reversing the process which originally took the soul has a chance of being an easy and effective means of fixing Omo. We can, hopefully, search the constructs memory and know if inserting souls safely is something that it does. Now, it is possible that they put the souls into a furnace and just reversing the process wouldn't integrate the soul with the vitality network, so there really isn't any sure thing here. Note that the force resisting our control of the golem was not that much stronger than us, it is entirely possible that we could defeat it if we tried again.
If we are going to try doing this manually, we should probably start by trying to make Omo's vitality receptive to a new addition. It is possible that if we just stick the soul back in it will just work, there are just so many unknown factors here...
Post by: The Alchemist on May 09, 2015, 07:01:23 pm
As for creating a new spell, we have already seen the spell in action so we're not creating anything, just discovering how to cast it as we have done with every single one of our necromancy spells. Still there is some risk to attempting a new spell, I'm not saying there isn't I just think that since we witnessed the process that caused this we can reverse the process and fix the issue. As for why I think this is similar to steal vitality is that steal vitality takes from all over the body while this spell is more specific and takes only the selected ball of vitality. There's nothing to suggest that we have to keep everything we're trying to grab in fixed relative positions. However, I will caution that since steal vitality does not produce a 1:1 ratio that if this spell is similar to steal vitality, then it is likely that we would cause some damage.
Post by: monk12 on May 09, 2015, 09:06:50 pm
Quote from: monk12but clearly, or for long;I think a word got eaten there? Unless my knowledge of English is failing me.
Whups!
Quote from: monk12
but not clearly, or for long;
Carry on!
Post by: Parisbre56 on May 10, 2015, 07:06:28 pm
I say tell Eko to stab the thing's legs and make sure the thing stays still while we drink drink the potion. Unless it looks like its vitality is getting dangerously low, in which case we should tell him to stop. EDIT: Or maybe have him use the rope to tie it somewhere if it would be possible to anchor it that way more quickly. Either way, it's better for it to be steady during the operation.
Then tell him that whatever happens, focus on keeping himself, us and Omo safe. Tell him that the only thing keeping Omo's soul intact is a knot of necromantic energy and that we are going to try to carefully put that into Omo (so that he doesn't get scared by the orb of necromantic energy moving away from the creature, since necromantic energy is sometimes visible. We don't want him getting scared and hitting it with a spell by accident). But it feels like there is another mage opposing our influence and controlling that creature, a mage that is probably a necromancer. And we're running out of mana, so we might end up having to cast from vitality.
If we are hurt or rendered unconscious by our effort or any meddling from that opposing influence while doing so, then we need him to try and keep everyone safe. If not us, then Omo, since we're the one that dragged him into this.
Maybe he could try to create a major ward or sanctuary around all of us if he can do it without disrupting any necromantic energies inside the ward (since that could hurt Omo), merely stopping necromantic energies from going in our out. Because whatever this is, it won't end with this creature. There's something more out there and if we end up spending all our energy helping Omo, we won't be able to help him fend off any further attacks.
Then we start the operation. The first spell we need is See Vitality. Like a surgeon, we need to take a look at the transplant and then the patient and come up with a basic plan. Where everything goes and how it goes. Not everything if it's too complicated, just the basics, the basic steps. Rehearse our movements in our mind.
Then we need an Impair Undead or Alter Golem to open up the construct's skin, if we can't do it easily physically (to save mana) by using our hatchet to pry it open or unlock a latch or something. We felt that thing's body, we should know if such a thing exists or if we can simply stab it with our hatchet to make a hole without risking hurting Omo's soul.
Then we need an Alter Golem/Steal Vitality combo-like spell (Transplant Vitality Network?) that will keep the vitality inside its bottle of necromantic energy and slowly move that bottle towards Omo's head.
Use the vision See Vitality provides us to find the right position and the right connections and repair any that need repairing with an Alter Golem-like effect to the bottle. Be mindful not to disrupt the pulses of vitality while doing so. Hopefully the body itself will want the soul there and will help with the reconnection, perhaps adding some of its vitality to the bottle. Maybe let the bottle dissolve if it looks like the soul does not need it to remain stable once inside the body. Whatever looks best at the time. Since this is new magic, we might have to make some snap decisions based on how things look.
Add a bit of our vitality if it looks like the soul needs it to finish its connections or if the bottle is not as full as it should be or if we need to kick-start the pulsing effect. I think that the last time we used Steal Vitality on ourselves, we lost 1 mana and 1 vitality and gave 1 vitality to the little girl.
And whatever we do, do not stop and do not let the spell fade until we're done, even if it means we'll start casting from vitality when we run out of mana like it happened with the tree. Saving Omo is more important. Better for us to feel weak and sick than for Omo to be soulless. We can always regain vitality if we survive this, but we probably can't create a new soul.
I really hope this works. The other presence makes things even worse and makes me feel like we have to act quickly. We don't know what capabilities the golem has, if it has any self-destruct methods or a way to destroy Omo's soul. We know that command undead has about the same range as our necromantic sight. That's probably not the case with the other presence, but if it is, it means that it could potentially cast spells that require necromantic LoS, like Alter Golem or Steal Vitality. And we don't know if there are other things like this one out there or what the other could try to do. Waiting for a sanctuary or major ward would take too long, during that time things could become even worse. Not to mention the chance it has of disrupting necromantic magic. And whoever that presence is, it could send more things our way. Especially if it's connected to Nightroars.
If we do this right and are lucky, we'll level up while doing this. And if we're really lucky, we'll get an even better necromantic sight, perhaps something that allows us to see the threads of necromantic energy connecting the construct to the presence and follow them to their source where we can give him what he deserves. Or at least the extra level will gets us closer to his level and make it easier for us to fight his influence and check the Golem's mind and capabilities.
Irrelevant, but I got an idea for an experiment... There is very clearly something holding vitality inside living things. Either biology or natural life magic, similar to how death magic holds vitality inside dead things. And when they die, that vitality is lost... but is it destroyed? Is it lost slowly or quickly?
Where do living things get their vitality from? Is vitality everywhere around us and some living things simply have the capability to absorb it? Or is it created when a living thing receives nutrition from its environment?
A way to discover that would be to wound something while using see vitality. Does something wounded experience the same "leakage" of vitality we saw in the dead leaf? Or does vitality simply disappear from it? Or maybe dissipate equally from its entire vitality network?
If wounding something causes leakage of concentrated vitality, then that could be used to create a more efficient version of the drain vitality spell for use during combat or with sacrifices. You wound or kill something and then drain the escaping vitality from it and use it for whatever you need it. Kinda like those vampire weapons that wound your enemy and transfer part of their HP to you.
Heh, even more ridiculous idea: Necromantic chainsword. Take a piece of wood shaped like a sword (or an actual sword or blade if you can find one) and make it into a golem with necromantic energy shaped like scoops along its edge. With a mental command, the scoops start rotating, digging into the enemy's vitality network. Then they make their way back down on the other side and get inside the hilt of the sword where they deposit the vitality. If you get wounded and need a boost, then you simply order the bottom of the hilt to open and let the vitality flow inside you. Not very cost effective and considering we know nothing about swords it's unlikely to get enough use to pay itself off, but I'd love to use that on the bastard controlling the curse. It would be fun to watch him panic as his vitality is stripped away from his body.
Not to mention how useful such a concept would be for creating undead armies. Imagine a machine like that mining trees and pumping the vitality into corpses or rocks to easily create golems and zombies. All we need is a way to make a necromantic machine that can create more necromantic energy or a way to convert vitality to mana or a way to make golems cast spells and we have an factory for building undead factories ready.
Post by: The Alchemist on May 10, 2015, 09:54:01 pm
I say tell Eko to stab the thing's legs and make sure the thing stays still while we drink drink the potion. Unless it looks like its vitality is getting dangerously low, in which case we should tell him to stop.+1 Except for.
Then tell him that whatever happens, focus on keeping himself, us and Omo safe. If we are hurt or rendered unconscious by our effort or any meddling from that opposing influence, then we need him to try and keep everyone safe. Try to create a major ward or sanctuary around all of us if he can do it without disrupting any necromantic energies inside the ward (since that could hurt Omo), merely stopping necromantic energies from going in our out. Because whatever this is, it won't end with this creature. There's something more out there and if we end up spending all our energy helping Omo, we won't be able to help him fend off any further attacks.
Then the first spell we need is See Vitality. Like a surgeon, we need to take a look at the transplant and then the patient and come up with a basic plan. Where everything goes and how it goes. Rehearse our movements in our mind.
Then we need an Impair Undead or Alter Golem to open up the construct's skin, if we can't do it easily physically by using our hatchet to pry it open or unlock a latch or something. We felt that thing's body, we should know if such a thing exists or if we can simply stab it with our hatchet to make a hole without risking hurting Omo's soul.
Then we need an Alter Golem/Steal Vitality combo-like spell that will keep the vitality inside its necromantic bottle and slowly move that bottle towards Omo's head.
Use the vision See Vitality provides us to find the right position and the right connections and repair any that need repairing with an Alter Golem-like effect to the bottle. Hopefully the body itself will want the soul there and will help with the reconnection, perhaps adding some of its vitality to the bottle. Maybe let the bottle dissolve if it looks like the soul does not need it to remain stable once inside the body. Whatever looks best at the time, since this is new magic.
Add a bit of our vitality if it looks like the soul needs it to finish its connections or if the bottle is not as full as it should be. I think that the last time we used Steal Vitality on ourselves, we lost 1 mana and 1 vitality and gave 1 vitality to the little girl.
And whatever we do, do not stop and do not let the spell fade until we're done, even if it means we'll start casting from vitality when we run out of mana like it happened with the tree.
How about instead of telling Eko to keep stabbing the construct we tell him to take Omo's rope (if we have it on hand) and tie it up. The only other thing that I'm (slightly) against in this plan is the use of an Alter Golem/Steal Vitality combo spell since we have no basis that it exists or would be successful (mainly I'm just worried about botching a spell and losing mana). I think copying the construct's own spell that it used would provide a greater chance of success.
Post by: Parisbre56 on May 11, 2015, 05:21:50 am
I disagree with the second part because the way I see it, it would needlessly complicate things. The golem needed such a complicated method because it probably can't create and manipulate necromantic energy like we do. It needed to create the bottle and move it around by using its body instead of any spells available to it.
We on the other hand have spells. And if you remember, the first time we cast steal vitality we saw it as a purple sphere even though we didn't have necromantic sight. And zombies also looked purple. So it is safe to assume that necromantic energy looks purple. And that means that the steal vitality spell just creates a ball of necromantic energy, inside which vitality is trapped, a bottle one could say, and then pulls it out of the target.
Now, in our situation, the construct has finished the complicated job of creating a bottle for us. So all we need is to keep that bottle intact and slowly and carefully move it from one place to another, like we do with steal vitality. But we might need to apply necromantic "force" to have the bottle keep its shape or to repair the connection between the body and soul or to cause the bottle to dissolve if it isn't needed, hence the alter golem part. I don't have a name for such a spell, hence why I described it as a combo.
I guess we could call it something like "Transplant vitality" or "Transplant necromantic energy". Could use it in the future to transfer an organ from a living thing to one of our golems to more easily create complex organs for them. Although the more humane thing would be to copy the organ instead of outright taking it.
Oh, idea! What if the construct is gathering souls for exactly that purpose? To have them transplanted into golems or zombies? I mean, it's easier than creating a soul-like thing from scratch. All the necromancer would have to do is break it, fill it with fear and anger against everything living. And then you'd have an immortal soldier with a good mind, perfect for leading groups of zombies like a general. And if the soul retains some of its traits, then those "generals" could regenerate vitality overtime or cast spells. Maybe the presence we felt is such a general, a soul placed somewhere and given the job of maintaining the curse and directing it more intelligently to perform hit and run attacks or evade order mages.
Post by: joemoben on May 11, 2015, 04:45:52 pm
Post by: RAM on May 11, 2015, 08:37:44 pm
Post by: Angle on May 11, 2015, 08:47:08 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on May 11, 2015, 10:32:04 pm
And necromantic energy and vitality are two different things. Necromantic energy is the thing that manipulates vitality. That causes it to move and behave in unnatural ways. It is what keeps vitality inside dead things. It is what we manipulate when we cast alter golem. And it's what the bottle holding Omo's soul is made of. We, as a necromancer, are capable of directly manipulating necromantic energy in order to manipulate vitality. So moving and manipulating the necromantic energy of the bottle directly should be the easiest and quickest thing we can do.
Using the rope would be like trying to use a a lasso to perform a heart transplant. Sure, you could do it, if you're skilled enough and have mana to waste creating the rope, but is there any reason to do it when we can simply pick up the heart and put it in the body with our hands, with direct manipulation of necromantic energy?
Post by: Angle on May 11, 2015, 10:36:35 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on May 11, 2015, 11:00:06 pm
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The new bundle of Vitality in its heart though... now that's intricate, incredibly so. The Vitality there is a rather small fraction of the rest of the creature's, and seems largely segregated from it too. However, the bundle of Necromantic energy holding everything in place is much more convoluted than anything else in the creature, or any Necromantic creation you've seen before. In fact, the only thing it compares to is the ball of Vitality within the skull of Ado Drunkenstumbles.
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Looking at them side by side, that mass of vitality bears more than a passing resemblance to what you can see in the heart of the construct. They are both immensely convoluted, seeming to turn in on themselves in odd bends and swirls yet almost with a suggestion of underlying order, like an unbelievably intricate knot. Though it does not exactly replicate what you can see in Eko, it is close enough for you to think they must be of a kind.So it's a bottle made out of necromantic energy holding vitality shaped like a soul. If we can move an orb of necromantic energy with steal vitality, then we can create a new spells that can move more complicated shapes of necromantic energy while keeping them intact. Trying to recreate the rope would be harder and more expensive because we would have to create the rope with new necromantic energy and then guide it around. It's much easier to just directly manipulate the existing necromantic energy and only add to it if more necromantic energy is necessary to repair the connections.
However, there are two important differences between what you can see in Eko and what you can see in the construct. The first is that while Eko's ball of vitality is an intrinsic piece of his overall vitality network, the ball in the construct is almost a separate entity; it does not send pulses of vitality to the rest of the construct, nor does vitality flow back into it. The second is that Eko's vitality ball seems... unconstrained. It is a natural pattern within his vitality. The vitality within the construct, however, is bound completely by the same sort of Necromantic energy that gives shape to the vitality in the rest of the construct. While you don't know what gives Eko's vitality its shape, you are confident you could impair the Necromantic energy in the heart of the construct and the vitality within would flow away, losing cohesion and form. You doubt it would maintain its pattern the way Eko's seems to. If the construct's ball of vitality is in the shape of a bottle, then so is Eko's, but without the bottle. You don't see an empty bottle in Omo to fill.
You take another look at the Necromantic Energy forming the rest of the construct. Unlike the zombies you've encountered which mainly had their "tubes" of Necromantic energy enveloped entirely within the body of the corpse, the construct seems to have a thin web of Necromantic energy across the exterior of the bronze body. The body only, and not the legs which as expected have their Necromantic energy located in the core. You do not know if the construct has some mechanism to open itself to pass the "soul-ball" of vitality through- perhaps the denser stuff near the head- but you are confident that you could impair enough of the construct's "skin" to create a passage you could use.
Post by: Angle on May 11, 2015, 11:05:49 pm
Post by: The Alchemist on May 11, 2015, 11:16:06 pm
One knot - but this thing might have the kids souls, too. And I'm not confident we can pick it up, either - I think we should aim to make the construct reverse the process it just did. In order to do that, though, we need to control it, and in order to be capable of that we should ask eko about conflict's of will between casters, or between casters and spells.The knot refers to the structure of the soul, more or less, and I would think if it contained multiple souls that it would be remarkably larger in size in comparison to Eko's. It's possible that their souls have weakened and haven't disappeared yet, but if that's the case then it's most likely better for them to be in a living body than in the construct at any rate. As for command undead...I guess we could try once more, but that would leave us just barely scraping by in terms of mana if it fails. Assuming we follow parisbe's plan (which after his last message I am completely in favor of including the new "transplant" spell; although we may want to keep the soul steal spell in mind in case of emergency like the soul bottle breaking), which would require 1 mana for see vitality, 2 mana for impair undead/alter golem, and ? for the new spell (our most costly spell is 4 mana so we should assume this as the worst case). Right now we have access to a total of 6 mana so it all depends on how much the new spell would cost but we can assume 7 would be a decent worst case estimate(with 2 mana being the best case scenario, 1 for see vitality, 0 for golem manipulation if we can manage without mana, and 1 for mystery spell). I think it would be a very bad idea to let this sit overnight while we regenerate mana so we should try to resolve this now.
Furthermore we have no indication that a construct meant to steal souls would even have the capability to reverse the process, additionally the spell would probably require it to have eyes since the spell is probably line of sight. So we have an investment of 4 mana with no guarantee that the construct can even reverse the spell, since there would be little reason to make sure that it could whenever it was created(there simply isn't much purpose to do so if you didn't plan to utilize the forest the construct was released in).
Personally I'm in favor of Parisbe's plan, without using command undead.
Post by: Descan on May 12, 2015, 10:28:36 am
Either that or it eats them, but that's a little less hopeful for being able to fix those kids.
Post by: RAM on May 12, 2015, 03:57:38 pm
Post by: ydeve on May 26, 2015, 06:44:17 pm
Post by: Andres on May 26, 2015, 07:15:02 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on May 27, 2015, 06:33:27 am
if necromancers can only control things within their necromantic sight, and Eko can cast a ward that blocks necromantic sight, then have Eko cast that ward around you and the golem. That way, the being controlling the golem won't be a problem and you can then cast control undead on the golem and understand it better, hopefully using it to restore Omo's soul.That's not going to work for two reasons:
1. We know that Nym can maintain the command undead spell about the same distance she can see with her necromantic sight, however that was a single test with a single creature. Maybe the spell scales differently with vitality or levels, thus allowing greater range for high level necromancers or high vitality creatures. Furthermore, experienced necromancers might have ways to increase their range or maybe a more advanced form of command undead, something that can bond caster and zombie. That would explain the recent ward bypasses and give a more plausible explanation for this creature being under someone's control.
2. While a minor ward can block necromancy based senses and cause necromantic creatures to avoid them, it doesn't block the spell itself. Nym was able to control zombies through the ward (remember the night we rescued the children?). So it's safe to assume it's the same for all necromancy. You need something more powerful, like a greater ward or a sanctuary to ensure that necromantic energy won't be going in or out of an area. And you need to ensure that it won't affect necromantic energy inside the ward so that Omo is not endangered. And even then, casting that will take about 30 minutes, ample time for bad things to happen. So it would be better in my opinion to start the soul transfer process now.
Worst-case scenario is the anti-necromancy magic will destroy the necromancy holding Omo's soul and our own ability to retrieve it and then Omo is lost forever.I think the biggest danger (that we can see right now) is Eko mistaking the necromantic energy coming out of the construct as an attack and casting an abjuration. That's why we should make it clear that he should not interfere with whatever we're doing until we are done unless asked or we go unconscious or similar bad things happen.
Post by: Gwythur on May 28, 2015, 10:48:03 pm
Post by: monk12 on May 29, 2015, 12:39:46 pm
Now this is interesting, but the implications are worrying. Do we have any sense of the location/source of the other presence? It could be that it wasn't just a lair it was fleeing to, but its master as well. It follows then that if the presence is away from us, and necromantic in nature, maybe try to command it while we're all inside of Eko's ward (or a new one if it's too far away). The ward's shielding effect might be enough to disrupt or remove whatever outside influence is keeping us from taking control of the construct.Ask Eko if he knows anything about contests of will between casters.Yeeeah that might be useful. Something like "There's something more here, not sure what."
+1
Command undead once more, Attempt to imitate the presence through empathy, basically you are playing copycat with the other presence.
Eko stands up straight, leaning towards you expectantly. "Well?"
You lick your lips nervously, phrasing your words carefully. "Eko... what do you know about contests of will between casters?"
Eko grows very quiet. "Nym, are you-"
"Eko, please- we may not have much time. Something is directly resisting my spells. Something intelligent."
"I see." Eko murmurs. "Sometimes, two Wizards will attempt to manipulate Order in the same way, at the same time; perhaps because they are incompetent teammates, or rarely because they are fighting with their magic. The particulars differ depending on the spell, but usually the more skilled and experienced Wizard will eventually be able to impose their will and block the effects of the other. It is said that this can happen when Order Wizards try to directly neutralize Chaos Shaman as well, and was common during the Pacification." Eko's low voice gains urgency. "If you are up against the Necromancer-"
"Then I won't let him stop me from saving Omo." You say harshly, turning back to the construct.
You take a deep breath to calm yourself, trying to ignore Eko hovering over your shoulder. You were not expecting another presence to oppose your previous attempt at command, but now you're ready for a fight. Controlling the construct is the key to restoring Omo; it may be able to directly reverse the soul-stealing process, and even if it can't a closer study of its mind and abilities could yield priceless insight into that process. The construct is at your mercy. You will prevail in this contest of wills. You have to.
... You Command Undead once more, but it seems you are not the only one ready for a rematch. Your sense of the construct is even more tenuous this time, and every time you attempt to assert your dominance you feel your control crumble, blocked by that foreign mind. However, instead of fiercely driving you away and shattering your spell, this time the other presence seems... hesitant. It does not allow you to gain full control, but it also does not block you out.
Your sense of the construct is too weak to feel what happens next, but with your own eyes you observe the Necromantic Energy located in the construct's head shift and change. It begins near the unidentified structures of Necromantic Energy located on either side of the head; new strands of Necromantic Energy appear seemingly from nowhere and pool deeper inside the creature to make... something. You have no idea what it is just by looking at it; it is small and flat and somewhat ornate, with a tiny amount of Vitality from the construct's network rerouted through it. It's nothing you couldn't make yourself if you were so inclined.
Almost as soon as that structure is completed, the foreign presence controlling the construct seems to vanish. You quickly gain full control and waste no time celebrating before assessing the construct. You find no shred of the presence remaining, but you do not want to take the chance it could come back.
The unidentified structures at either side of the construct's head are sensory in nature, but they are not eyes or ears; they give you an impeccable sense of where You are yourself. It is almost like they are a shared limb; you know how far apart the structures are from your hand as well as you know how far your hands are from your shoulder. They are quite sensitive, and from the slight differences in distance between the two structures you think you could easily determine what direction your body is in relation to the construct.
The soul-sac remains opaque to you, not because some other presence is controlling it but because it truly is not a part of the construct. If the construct is a chest, then the probable soul is an item within, with no obvious way to control it.
You try to learn how the construct formed the rope, but to your dismay you find that there is no structure that seems like it could do anything of the sort. Further, there is no mind to discover, no latent imperatives for the construct to act upon, no instructions it could use to steal souls or even navigate Aloclesno; it lies still and quiet on the forest floor with no urging from yourself. Eko has noticed and asked you a question, but you are too busy to hear.
While it has no mind, it does have a rather crude memory... of a sort. The memory is held in the structure that was created just now while you watched, so you doubt it has existed for long. The memory itself is an image; more of a picture or a drawing, as it seems to be stylized and exaggerated. It depicts a tree much like any other in Aloclesno, but far larger and fatter with a gnarled knot midway down the trunk. Weathered roots seem to roil beneath the tree, casting dark shadows on a gaping hole in the earth below them.
You aren't sure what to make of that, and dismiss it as unimportant for the moment. Full control of the construct has given you some knowledge of how it works, but no easy answers on how to cure Omo.
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Your Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Eko Cleanvise (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Eko's Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: Angle on May 29, 2015, 02:00:40 pm
Post by: ydeve on May 29, 2015, 05:50:50 pm
EDIT: Also, after looking at that golem, are we able to recreate the location "organ" of it? If it doesn't take too long, we should learn that, because it could end up being incredibly useful later.
Post by: Angle on May 29, 2015, 05:59:39 pm
Post by: ydeve on May 29, 2015, 06:02:53 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on May 29, 2015, 06:50:24 pm
We could lie to Eko, tell him that the necromancer is resisting our influence and that the only thing we can do is search for him, but lying would make it harder for him to believe us later. On the other hand, the truth would be harder to justify without something to show for it, some proof to convince him that we and possibly the other necromancer could be willing to talk/help. It might be better to just tell him we can't tell him and ask him to trust us while implying it is somehow related to the elves or life magic and giving some hints about what we intend without outright lying. But whatever we do, he's probably going to have some questions so we should probably think of some answers sooner or later.
Guess the two orb trick could explain the ward bypasses, if Curo used a similar system, since it allows one to extend the range they can maintain control of and alter the structure of their constructs (at least, that's what I think it does).
The thought storage is a neat trick too. Indicated that necromantic thoughts at the very least can be manipulated via necromancy, same as dreamscaping did. Which could mean that telepathy as a form of long range communication is possible for necromancers. Could be useful for talking with the elves back home and completing our mission as scouts, assuming we can contact our ex. I bet some life magic tips about vitality could be useful for necromancy.
Post by: RAM on May 30, 2015, 01:22:49 am
But perhaps the more immediate concern is what we should continue to do with the control. Honestly, I am inclined to just drop it and focus upon restoring Omo and not could our memory of the spell we witnessed with an investigation of the construct.
Also, I agree that it looked like an invitation, so lets get on that after we have done what we can for Omo, maybe there is something under the tree that can help him.
Post by: ydeve on May 30, 2015, 10:01:45 am
This could be done without wasting too much time, after which we can try wards, running away, etc.
Post by: Angle on May 30, 2015, 10:24:29 am
Post by: endlessblaze on May 30, 2015, 10:52:32 am
Well, the degree of precise remote control seems extreme. It now appears entirely possible that it actually cast a spell through the construct. The construct clearly has no means remaining to transfer souls, so... Ask Eko to erect a greater ward here, Have Omo remain within it, Secure the construct in place, perhaps in a pit or suspended from a tree, use our remaining mana to experiment on reproducing the soul transfer tentacles that we witnessed, and then rest in shifts to recover our mana.
But perhaps the more immediate concern is what we should continue to do with the control. Honestly, I am inclined to just drop it and focus upon restoring Omo and not could our memory of the spell we witnessed with an investigation of the construct.
Also, I agree that it looked like an invitation, so lets get on that after we have done what we can for Omo, maybe there is something under the tree that can help him.
im more inclined to find that tree and take the construct with us.
but first rest
Post by: Gwythur on July 09, 2015, 10:30:30 pm
I think that we need to take some risks, but minimize the possible consequences. We need to immobilize the construct so it can't escape. Use Omo's rope to lash it to a stout tree, wrapping the rope around it as many times as possible. We need to find a way to return Omo's soul to his body, but we don't have the knowledge or mana right now. We need to protect ourselves more than the major ward can offer. We should give Eko our potion and ask him to cast sanctuary here. We need to rest to regain our mana. We know that necromancers can communicate in dreams. As much as our previous contact with the force controlling the golem was disquieting, I think we need to try to reach out to it when we sleep. We need to learn.
And I think we need to come clean to Eko. He suspects we are a necromancer. Rather than let him make wild guesses, we need to tell him everything - our disappointment that we could not be a powerful life mage like our mother, our elation when our magic manifested after all, our fear that we will be discovered and killed, our meagre experiments on animals and plants, the unbidden manifestation of our powers when we chose not to use them, our decision to leave the elven lands, our hope to use necromancy to cleanse the blight on the elven homeland, the dream contact and our rejection of the offer of power, our desire to cleanse this forest, and our despondency at losing our only friend to the soul-sucking golem.
Right now, we're nothing more than an untrained and untested hedge wizard, self taught and weak, against powerful and ancient forces. This is our first real test. We need to know that we can use our necromancy to save Omo. We cannot fail here.
What we need is what other necromancers don't have - friends and allies. Necromancers do not have friends, they have undead slaves. Necromancers do not have allies, except in the most temporary circumstances. To a necromancer, all living beings are raw material. There is no ally that would not better serve as a fully controlled slave. This most of all is what we need to reject about necromancy as we intend to avoid the evil path. We need Eko's friendship and alliance. I will write up a soliloquy soon, but I don't want to put words into the storyteller's mouth, so I'll give monk12 a few days to respond.
Post by: RAM on July 10, 2015, 12:33:11 am
I think that we need to take some risks, but minimize the possible consequences.I can +1 this.
Post by: Parisbre56 on July 10, 2015, 07:01:36 am
Quote
We should give Eko our potion and ask him to cast sanctuary here.Remember though that wards can disrupt necromantic energy and necromantic energy is all that's holding Omo's soul together right now. So we either need to ensure that the spell will only affect the borders of the area we are in or not cast it at all.
Assuming the image sent to us was an invitation, then there's not really a reason to cast a powerful ward anyway. The creature was remotely controlled. Assuming there are no more controllers and no more creatures in the area, there shouldn't really be anyone that can attack us. If there are more creatures and more controllers around, then a minor ward should take care of them, since it will prevent them from seeing us, same as it did for the order mage that came here before us.
Post by: RAM on July 10, 2015, 04:04:17 pm
Post by: Gwythur on July 10, 2015, 11:32:07 pm
Remember that the curse of the forest of Aloclesno was enough to rout armies. It seems unlikely that one battered construct is all that remains. I'd like to be protected should more constructs arrive. There's not much point letting Eko's mana go to waste since we plan to rest anyhow. As we understand the spells, wards prevent magic from passing them, but sanctuary is a barrier to the physical. I think sanctuary is the spell to choose here.
We were unable to pass magic through the ward on the edge of the forest, but were unaffected on either side of that ward. I don't know if a circular ward would prevent magic in the enclosure, or only from passing through the edges. I don't think that surrounding ourselves with protection dispels the magic within. Eko probably has a better idea how his spells work than we do. We should ask.
Post by: monk12 on July 16, 2015, 10:12:13 pm
Well, the degree of precise remote control seems extreme. It now appears entirely possible that it actually cast a spell through the construct. The construct clearly has no means remaining to transfer souls, so... Ask Eko to erect a greater ward here, Have Omo remain within it, Secure the construct in place, perhaps in a pit or suspended from a tree, use our remaining mana to experiment on reproducing the soul transfer tentacles that we witnessed, and then rest in shifts to recover our mana.
But perhaps the more immediate concern is what we should continue to do with the control. Honestly, I am inclined to just drop it and focus upon restoring Omo and not could our memory of the spell we witnessed with an investigation of the construct.
Also, I agree that it looked like an invitation, so lets get on that after we have done what we can for Omo, maybe there is something under the tree that can help him.
QuoteWe should give Eko our potion and ask him to cast sanctuary here.Remember though that wards can disrupt necromantic energy and necromantic energy is all that's holding Omo's soul together right now. So we either need to ensure that the spell will only affect the borders of the area we are in or not cast it at all.
Assuming the image sent to us was an invitation, then there's not really a reason to cast a powerful ward anyway. The creature was remotely controlled. Assuming there are no more controllers and no more creatures in the area, there shouldn't really be anyone that can attack us. If there are more creatures and more controllers around, then a minor ward should take care of them, since it will prevent them from seeing us, same as it did for the order mage that came here before us.
"Nym." Eko repeats himself insistently. "Nym, what's going on?"
Plans for how to deal with the construct whirl through your head. You want to restore Omo as quickly as possible, but you are low on mana, and the possibility of failure terrifies you. Worse, you know that this construct is not the end of Aloclesno's threats; you know there is a controller somewhere out there, perhaps with additional constructs to send after you. If one attacked Eko, or caught you unawares... well, you're not sure what would happen.
Eko moves directly in front of you, his voice taking on a frantic edge. "Nym! For the love of Atal, speak!"
You let out a defeated sigh. "I'm sorry, Eko. I've driven off whatever was controlling this construct, but I don't have the mana left to try and restore Omo."
"Driven it off?" Eko sounds incredulous. "Nym, you made it sound as though you were up against Nightroar himself!"
"Nightroar? No." You shake your head, trying to dance around the truth. "I... disrupted the organ used to control this construct. I sensed that the controller is somewhere in the forest. I think it is the true intelligence behind these attacks."
"The true intelligence." Eko repeats bitterly. "You're saying the Curse is alive and well, then? We've lost Omo, and in exchange we've done what? Captured a disposable minion?"
"We haven't lost Omo yet." You say sharply. "Once I rest, I think I can still restore him. If the children are any indication I don't think his condition will worsen while we replenish our mana pools, and I can't take any risks with Omo. I want a full mana pool with my mana potion in reserve before I do anything... invasive."
"Right." Eko bites his lip anxiously. "What do we do now then? Our camp is not too far away, but I don't think we can carry this hulk of metal that far."
"We'll make a new camp here." You decide, then hesitate as something occurs to you. "Eko, if you protect us with a stronger ward, will it disrupt the construct? If it gets dispelled, then Omo's soul could..."
Eko raises one hand calmingly. "The wards will only disrupt Necromancy which attempts to cross the boundary. My temple is protected by a Sanctuary; I had to dispel it to get the zombie into the basement, but I was able to reform it around the creature with no ill effect, as you saw yourself."
"Right. I say we make a Sanctuary here, and stay within it all day and all night. If there are any more of these things in the woods, I want to be protected."
Eko nods. "Sensible. I will see to it."
Eko sets to casting his spell, a process that proves to be a nervous half hour for you as you continually scan your surroundings for additional threats. Eko seems to be using several different colored chalks this time, muttering to himself as he draws precise shapes on nearby rocks and trees after carefully measuring the distance between them. There is no incident before the Sanctuary is complete; with all that has happened, you can't believe that it isn't even noon yet. Eko suggests that you return to base camp to retrieve some creature comforts, but since you have the bare necessities in your pack you elect to sit back and wait for nightfall, and sleep; just you, Eko, Omo's body, and the construct.
It is a long wait.
"So, Eko, can you tell me a bit more about the Sanctuary?" You break the silence, gesturing at your surrounding area. "It's a bit hard to trust our safety to something I can't even see."
Eko nods, giving you a reassuring smile. "You cannot see it, but I can, and it looks as strong as a wall to me. The Sanctuary will physically repel any Necromantic creature which tries to pass through it, and it will unravel any Necromantic spells cast at us through it."
"Yes, but how does it do that?" You ask inquisitively.
Eko grimaces as he thinks to himself. "Well... in lay terms, the world is made of layers of magic, from all the Faiths. All magic can be accessed from anywhere if you know how, and at a very fundamental level we are all made out of a blending of the different Magical Elements."
"Really?" You ask, surprised. "Are you saying we all have a little Death in us? Wouldn't that make the Sanctuary stop us too?"
Eko shakes his head. "No, no. Well..." Eko leans forward, clearly framing his thoughts in his own mind. "Normally, all the different Elements within us balance out, so you wouldn't notice anything. However, for some people this isn't true; they have more of a particular Element within them. These people usually develop magical talent of some kind; those strong with Order have the potential to become Wizards, for example, or those formed of Chaos can become Shaman."
"And the people born with lots of Death magic in them become Necromancers, then?"
Eko nods. "Yes, basically. Those people with a strong affinity for an Element will be affected by wards; the stronger they are, the more intense the effects. This Sanctuary is a strong ward indeed; it reorders Elemental magics passing through it in such a way as to negate the energies of Death magic with precisely arranged patterns of Life and to actively disrupt and harm it with certain combinations of other Elements. If a Necromancer came here, they couldn't pass through the Sanctuary without taking significant damage unless they were strong enough to overwhelm the ward."
You look around your surroundings, suddenly anxious. This Sanctuary suddenly seems less like a shield and more like a cage. "It would affect a Necromancer? Not just another construct?"
Eko flashes his reassuring smile once again. "Don't worry, Nym. This Sanctuary could hold back Curo Nightroar himself if need be."
You lick your lips. "Yes, but you said it could be overwhelmed. It must have limits, otherwise the Wizards could just cast a bunch of Sanctuaries and be done with this whole war, right?"
Eko nods regretfully. "That's true enough, I'm afraid. Apart from being prohibitively expensive to cast over vast areas, a Sanctuary can be overwhelmed if too much Death magic is forced through too quickly. A terribly powerful Necromancer could bull his way through if he was willing to endure the pain, or he could direct raw Death magic at the ward as the Chaos Shaman are said to do. More likely, a determined Necromancer would have some powerful creatures of Death to control, and could send them to weaken or break through in advance."
"Creatures of Death? You mean zombies?"
"Yes, but not just zombies. Many natural creatures can be strongly aligned with an element; you Elves are almost all aligned with Life more strongly than any human, while Goblins are Chaos incarnate. Most creatures associated with Death aren't properly alive, like wraiths and wights and the like, but many carrion eaters have some affinity for Death. One of the primary purposes of my healing ward is to keep wounds from being infected or decaying due to creatures drawn to Death."
You nod slowly. "So is that what your wards are all about then? Altering magical energies?"
Eko smiles at your undertanding. "That is the heart of it, yes. Everything in the world is balanced, but as long as you maintain the equilibrium it can be reordered to achieve favorable effects. That is what most Order magic boils down to."
Your conversation wanders on to the different schools of Order magic. You learn that Abjurations achieve their effects passively, when other energies pass through them, while Equations are more active and direct. Eko is less clear on how Divinations work, perhaps because they are not his forte; it has something to do with the tendency of the world to drift toward order and balance, and how that can make places far away be very similar on some levels. Eventually despairing of explaining the rudiments of that school to a non-initiate, he begins asking you some questions about Life magic. You answer with what basics you remember from your long-ago training in the art, as well as your more recent correspondence with Elana, but you are unable to give him satisfying answers to his more probing questions because you are not actually a Life Mage. You mange to turn your vague, evasive answers into a change of topic, and the conversation winds along less dangerous lines.
You eat the last of your trail rations while Eko breaks into his own pack. The dry, salty fare is unsuitable for a comotose patient like Omo, though with Eko's help you manage to have him drink some water. Eko tucks in with a book for the remaining daylight hours, leaving you do what you can to keep Omo comfortable. You make a fire as darkness descends, and wrap Omo in your cloak to keep him warm through the night.
You take the first watch, wanting to get as much sleep as possible to be well rested in the morning. Eko drops off to sleep fairly quickly; you don't know how. Your thoughts keep spinning as you consider your situation, unfettered by the narrow-minded focus you had in the heat of the moment. Omo could be worse than dead, and you don't have a clue how to heal him. That's not true, you have several clues; you just need to move that lump of Vitality back into his head and let it go, and everything will be fine. But what if you need to prepare Omo somehow, or if there was something in that rope that keeps the soul intact while moving it, or what if you damage the soul container while trying to pull it out of the construct? What if you need to manually reintegrate it into Omo's Vitality network; can you even do that with Necromantic Energy without harming him further? What if Omo's soul is already irreparably damaged; what if he's gone crazy from being out of his body for so long. What if he never gets better, like the children...
Before you know it, the fire burns down low; time for Eko's shift. Eko shakes himself awake, groggily taking a place by the fire while you hunker down on the cold ground, laying your head on your pack. All of your anxieties and unanswerable questions swirl in your head, threatening to pull you under. You take one deep, ragged breath, then another. Tears will solve nothing. You roll over, wiping your eyes on your sleeve before burying your face in your pack. You focus on taking deep, regular breaths until you slowly fall asleep.
The trees of Aloclesno stretch high above you, twisted and wretched, clawing for an impossibly black sky. Tiny spiders twinkle with purple flame in that light, weaving their webs to ensnare the forest. They swarm over Omo's lifeless body; you are not concerned. Omo is not there, though he needs you.
Turning around, you see another tree; the tree from the construct's memory, gnarled and fat, dominating the clearing. The ground is fissured and cracked at its base, rent by the warped roots that seem to grow by the moment. There is a hole in the ground beneath the tree; more a burrow than a pit, conspicuously free of the spiders everywhere else. You do not hesitate; Omo is in there.
The roots tear at your Ranger gear, the black earth staining your hands and knees. Warm yellow torchlight beckons you onward, and you crawl into a familiar stone room, with a familiar hearth, a familiar red sofa, and a dangerous ceiling. As you stand up you can see that the chamber is now dominated by a long wooden table bearing a map of Urak covered in bits of colored wood. On the far side of the table is a familiar elven figure.
"Nym, my dear! You are refreshingly easy to contact. Only four nights for a reunion." Fale Packunion smiles broadly. "I must say, you look wretched. Have you been blundering through the mud?"
Your wits return to you as you try to make sense of the situation. "This is a dream. I was dreaming, and now I'm here."
"Yes, very astute of you, applause applause." Fale waves a hand to the table. "Have a seat, take a load off."
You disregard the high-backed chair he offers; you're certain it wasn't there a moment ago. "I told you before, Fale, I have no interest in your world-domination scheme."
"No? Didn't you flee your home for fear of being discovered?" Fale asks smugly.
"I didn't flee, and my friends haven't abandoned me." You reply hotly. You take a breath, drawing Omo's Ranger cloak around you as you regain your composure. "What do you want with me?"
Fale seems disconcerted for a moment, but the smile is back soon enough. "Well, I was thinking that we got off on the wrong foot the other night. Let's not allow politics to get between us; us Necromancers have to stick together. We all serve the will of Marko in our own way." M is false
"I don't worship your Death god, Fale." You reply, not quite keeping the edge from your voice.
"Maybe you should. He is the source of your power, after all." Fale shakes his head angrily. "Ahh, I didn't bring you here to argue. Either you'll see that I'm right in the end, or I will be forced to acknowledge your superior path. Listen, the way I see it, we can help each other out. I'm the best Necromancer in the world, and I've got a direct line to Marko. I'd like to count myself your colleague, at least, and I'd like to more know about you in that case. What you're trying to accomplish, where you are going; burn me, I'll settle for learning more about the Elves than I know now. Come on, you've got to have some questions about your powers by now!"
You are about to refuse him again, but hesitate. Fale might be able to help you out with restoring Omo. Burn you, he might be able to give a complete walkthrough if you tell him the full situation. You don't know if you can trust him, though... maybe just a couple questions will give you the insight you need. Or maybe you have a plan that is safe enough already; you're pretty sure it will work, everything you've puzzled out seems to make sense. But are you willing to gamble Omo's life on it?
Post by: Andres on July 16, 2015, 10:54:50 pm
Post by: Angle on July 16, 2015, 11:48:15 pm
Post by: Iituem on July 16, 2015, 11:54:49 pm
Post by: RAM on July 17, 2015, 12:00:23 am
Post by: Gwythur on July 17, 2015, 01:28:35 pm
That map seems interesting, and is in plain sight. Take a closer look.
So much we need to learn, but this is a dangerous tutor. Best if we keep any questions vague, and offer little as to our intentions. We could ask about souls in a roundabout way. Perhaps we could point out the flaws of shambling corpses and mindless golems, and ask about disembodied souls - spirits, spectres, and ghosts. Then ask about the bond between soul and body and how the two may be separated or relinked. We could even ask about possession.
Getting Fale to brag seems like it would be pretty easy as well. Maybe we could get some information about the current state of affairs in the world, especially in regard to Curo Nightroar and the Pirate King. We could also ask about the history of Balkoth's time, maybe even with direct questions about the conquering of the Sacred Grove, or the curse on the Forest of Aloclesno.
Fale seems to be offering overtures. I think we could ask for a gesture of good faith. Fale must have access to an extensive library. I say we ask for a necromantic spellbook so that we may further our learning.
Post by: Ehndras on July 17, 2015, 02:00:38 pm
Post by: Angle on July 17, 2015, 03:05:50 pm
Wow, this still exists! Is it possible to jump in at some point? :)
It's a suggestion game, so you can jump in whenever. Just make a suggestion.
Post by: ydeve on July 19, 2015, 11:57:58 am
Eko raises one hand calmingly. "The wards will only disrupt Necromancy which attempts to cross the boundary. My temple is protected by a Sanctuary; I had to dispel it to get the zombie into the basement, but I was able to reform it around the creature with no ill effect, as you saw yourself."
...
" If a Necromancer came here, they couldn't pass through the Sanctuary without taking significant damage unless they were strong enough to overwhelm the ward."
Something weird is going on here. Eko claims his temple was protected by a Sanctuary, which should have prevented any necromancer from entering. Yet we entered just fine. So either Monk made a mistake, or some necromancers can pass unopposed through a Sanctuary wall. Maybe it's because we're an elf, with natural affinity to Life magic that cancels somewhat with the Death to the Sanctuary. In that case, Fale Packunion might be able to walk in as well.
Fale seems disconcerted for a moment, but the smile is back soon enough. "Well, I was thinking that we got off on the wrong foot the other night. Let's not allow politics to get between us; us Necromancers have to stick together. We all serve the will of Marko in our own way." M is false
...
"Ahh, I didn't bring you here to argue. Either you'll see that I'm right in the end, or I will be forced to acknowledge your superior path. Listen, the way I see it, we can help each other out. I'm the best Necromancer in the world, and I've got a direct line to Marko. I'd like to count myself your colleague, at least, and I'd like to more know about you in that case."
Either he's lying to make us more comfortable, or (more probable, I think) he really means this. This means that in his eyes, we aren't enemies. So lets make us of this. Ask him all sorts of questions about Necromancy, in order of importance:
Restoring Omo
Souls, what they are, what uses there are for them (after you've taken them out of someone)
Golem creation, how to make a useful golem, more complex golem "organs"
When he asks for information on us, have him reciprocate with what his own plans are. He understands we don't trust him, and he needs to give us good reason/put up a show of good faith before we can reciprocate much.
Post by: Parisbre56 on July 19, 2015, 12:27:33 pm
He's a manipulator. He'll do anything to gain more info and put himself in a more advantageous position. We don't know if his end is as noble as he claims, but we know that he will use any means necessary to achieve that goal. So it's better to treat everything he does with suspicion. For all we know, he knows much less about some aspects of necromancy than we do. Or he could know much more. He could know about the curse, meaning that any mention of souls could alert him to our location and next thing we know we're knee deep in zombies. Might be better to have him mention souls, steer the conversation towards the subject but have him breech it. Maybe start by asking about how he became a necromancer, how his powers first manifested, and work from there.
On the other hand, the dream itself gave us some other clues. It told us that Omo's soul is in a hole under that tree. That could simply be a form of emotion and memory manipulation inherent to dreamscaping due to its nature as a dream (it reflects the problems we are facing, what we're concerned about) or trick to get us to like/trust Fale. Or it could actually be an indication provided by some other entity (fate? a god?) that the best way to help Omo is to go to that hole under that tree. So perhaps it would be better if we did not approach the subject directly, did not "make a deal with the devil" but instead tried to find a way to scam Fale out of as much info as we can while giving up trivial or outdated info or things he already knows or could easily learn.
Post by: ydeve on July 19, 2015, 09:46:20 pm
In the end, both he and us want the same thing: the world safe for Necromancers. He thinks the only way is world domination. We're looking for a different way, which he said he's ok with. The way I see this campaign, the objective isn't really "defeat the evil necromancers," but rather "find a way to bring peace to the world." (Which cannot happen as long as everyone kills any necromancer on sight)
tldr: He's not saying we join forces. He's offering us help as a third party. Take the help but make it clear we aren't going to conquer the world for him. Our goal: finding an alternative to conquering everyone that lets necromancers live safely.
Post by: Parisbre56 on July 19, 2015, 10:55:50 pm
He already knows exactly where we are. Remember the memory "tag" he left on the golem? we can be 99% sure he's the one controlling the golem in the forest.The first time he contacted us, we saw a dream of the pool we used to fish, back at the elven forest, along with some necromantic fish. Right after we left our home and experienced the stress of telling Omo about necromancy. If the beginning of the dream was created by Fale, then that would mean he has access to our memories and thus has no need to ask us questions. He should had known much more about us and the elves.
I'm pretty sure the first part of the dream is either related to some other entity, perhaps some god or other magical entity, or is just that: a dream related to what we are experiencing, what is making us anxious, combined with whatever necromantic energy or spell trigger is making us susceptible to being contacted through dreamscaping. (No idea what the trigger could be? Maybe it's related to the people close to us? Them knowing about us being a necromancer? Them getting hurt? Maybe it's just related to our emotional state? Maybe a coincidence?)
I'm inclined to think it's the second thing (perhaps combined with a bit of the first thing), given what Nym said: "I was dreaming and now I'm here." meaning that the first part was a dream, or something like it, while the second part is not a normal dream.
Irrelevant, but the fact that we are participating/being subjected to dreamscaping while inside a sanctuary is also an important piece of information. Either dreamscaping is not stricly Necromantic or it occurs through some dimension not covered by the sanctuary (perhaps our minds travel to another plane like the ones Eko mentioned while dreaming?) or it occurs because of some power for which sanctuaries are no problem, like for example a god.
Or the spell was powerful enough to break or evade the sanctuary, but I doubt that. Still, we should check the sanctuary tomorrow, see if it is still up or if it has failed.
Quote
Given that, he also already knows Omo's state and that we would want to restore him. The truth is, we have almost no sensitive information to be afraid of leaking to him.That would be true if you are suggesting he already has access to all of the contents of our mind, but not otherwise.
Quote
I'm not suggesting we make a "deal" or pact with him. Just the opposite. He just acknowledged that we walk different paths and that it's ok with him. And he offered to give us knowledge that can help us down our path. As long as there are minimal strings involved, I say we take it, because we're really in a bind here. As long as it is clear we aren't going to be helping him along his "world domination" schemes. But skitting around the bush isn't going to get us any of the help/info that we need.Does he really think the best way is world domination? Or has Morka brainwashed him into thinking that, perhaps using whatever dark emotions and bad experiences he has to convert him into a fanatic for his cause? I mean, the world is pretty large, it's hard to think one man would wake up one day and say "Oh, I just happened to be a very powerful mage, one of those that rarely occur. And I'm Death-element-aligned. So I'm going to raise an army out of my friends and kill and/or enslave everyone on the planet just so that me and a couple of other guys have fun.", let alone so many during the time after the Golgothan war. It's much more likely that they were contacted (or even created/empowered in part) by Morka and then manipulated into trying to conquer the world and causing more death. Or, I dunno, whatever else a death god would want.
In the end, both he and us want the same thing: the world safe for Necromancers. He thinks the only way is world domination. We're looking for a different way, which he said he's ok with. The way I see this campaign, the objective isn't really "defeat the evil necromancers," but rather "find a way to bring peace to the world." (Which cannot happen as long as everyone kills any necromancer on sight)
tldr: He's not saying we join forces. He's offering us help as a third party. Take the help but make it clear we aren't going to conquer the world for him. Our goal: finding an alternative to conquering everyone that lets necromancers live safely.
Anyway, if those are his intentions, then we can easily ask him to prove them. Say that we are not interested in world domination. And that while we may have no reason to oppose him, we have no desire to help him either, no reason to indirectly risk hurting people who have not hurt us, no reason to risk him hurting our friends or family, all those people we know long enough to know their daily routines, people we have spent all our lives with. So we won't give him any information about those subjects. But we are willing to talk about the basics of necromancy and magic in general. And that if helping another necromancer is all he cares about, then he should accept that and help us, thus earning our more of our trust. And then we can start our inquiry but in such a way that we reveal as little as possible.
Not really the best way to go about this but better than laying all our cards on the table.
Post by: RAM on July 19, 2015, 11:21:18 pm
...
Post by: ydeve on July 20, 2015, 12:57:37 am
QuoteGiven that, he also already knows Omo's state and that we would want to restore him. The truth is, we have almost no sensitive information to be afraid of leaking to him.That would be true if you are suggesting he already has access to all of the contents of our mind, but not otherwise.
I'm suggesting he's in control of the curse in the forest, ie in control of the golem that took Omo's soul. Thus, he would already know about Omo. The reason I think this is the necromancer controlling the construct withdrew when we tried to control it (he probably could have continued to maintain control), leaving behind the "hollow tree" message. Then we dream about said tree and Furor offers to help us.
Does he really think the best way is world domination? Or has Morka brainwashed him into thinking that, perhaps using whatever dark emotions and bad experiences he has to convert him into a fanatic for his cause? I mean, the world is pretty large, it's hard to think one man would wake up one day and say "Oh, I just happened to be a very powerful mage, one of those that rarely occur. And I'm Death-element-aligned. So I'm going to raise an army out of my friends and kill and/or enslave everyone on the planet just so that me and a couple of other guys have fun.", let alone so many during the time after the Golgothan war. It's much more likely that they were contacted (or even created/empowered in part) by Morka and then manipulated into trying to conquer the world and causing more death. Or, I dunno, whatever else a death god would want.
I guess I'm theory-spinning here. But with regards to "Death" and the god, here is what we know:
The god of the Golgothans was called Golgoth. Morka seems to be a different, newer diety (or maybe an older one we didn't know about). The point being, he isn't the same god that "ordered" the Golgothans to attack the world.
Necromancy, or "Death" magic, isn't actually about death. It's about controlling vitality to create artificial constructs. It's equally the magic of "Artificers" as the magic of "Death." There could be a lot of things a "Death" god wants other than death. Death magic is the magic that could unlock what we consider modern technology. Death magic is the magic of robotics. Raising the dead is common mostly because it's easier to use a dead body than to create an artificial one of your own.
Basically, Death magic is not evil-alligned, to use DnD terms. It's a lawful magic, where good/evil is decided by the user. It stands to reason that there are Death gods out there that are at least Neutral. Not to say that Morka is or isn't evil. Just opening the possibility that he's might be amoral, not evil.
Anyway, if those are his intentions, then we can easily ask him to prove them. Say that we are not interested in world domination. And that while we may have no reason to oppose him, we have no desire to help him either, no reason to indirectly risk hurting people who have not hurt us, no reason to risk him hurting our friends or family, all those people we know long enough to know their daily routines, people we have spent all our lives with. So we won't give him any information about those subjects. But we are willing to talk about the basics of necromancy and magic in general. And that if helping another necromancer is all he cares about, then he should accept that and help us, thus earning our more of our trust. And then we can start our inquiry but in such a way that we reveal as little as possible.+1
This was the idea I was trying (poorly) to communicate. If Morka just wants a (semi-)stable niche for necromancy in the world, his "priest" (?) shouldn't mind too much if we work for that goal in a non-evil way. So he should be willing to help us. If not, well, we're still in exactly the same position as before, haven't lost much.
On the topic of dreamscaping, I think it's probably non-spacial like you suggested, so the ward doesn't cover it. But it doesn't hurt to double-check in the morning.
Also, we're definitely going to have to reveal ourself to Eko soon. Hopefully Fale teaches us how to restore Omo first so we have Omo to vouch for us.
Post by: RAM on July 20, 2015, 02:11:35 am
Post by: XXXXYYYY on July 20, 2015, 09:19:01 am
I wouldn't fight it if we wanted to tell Eko now. They are much more experienced than us and we could use all the help with the theory here that we can get.Yeah. We're gonna have to tell him eventually, and I'm pretty sure he at least suspects something's up, though he might think it's just Life magic. We should be gentle about it, though.
Post by: Baffler on July 20, 2015, 12:39:47 pm
I wouldn't fight it if we wanted to tell Eko now. They are much more experienced than us and we could use all the help with the theory here that we can get.Yeah. We're gonna have to tell him eventually, and I'm pretty sure he at least suspects something's up, though he might think it's just Life magic. We should be gentle about it, though.
Agreed. Ideally we wouldn't, but he's going to find out eventually and we really don't want to risk him just keeping it to himself until he can tell Bale and the rest of the Imperial Cavalrymen back in town about us. He'll certainly be less than thrilled though, think of how Omo reacted and we've known him our whole life. We've also got to remember that he probably isn't going to be a permanent party member, he's still got his duties as the village priest to attend to after all.
Post by: monk12 on July 20, 2015, 05:33:53 pm
Something weird is going on here. Eko claims his temple was protected by a Sanctuary, which should have prevented any necromancer from entering. Yet we entered just fine. So either Monk made a mistake, or some necromancers can pass unopposed through a Sanctuary wall.
I can confirm there was no error. The explanation for the discrepancy between what Eko said about his wards and what you observed in crossing them I leave to your powers of deduction.
Current voting is in favor of swapping some questions (after making it clear we still seek a peaceful path;) which and to what degree is open for debate. For the sake of organization (and getting a few done in one update) I'd suggest voting for both which specific questions you'd like to ask as well as what sorts of questions you'd be willing to answer (and which you'd specifically refuse.) Bear in mind that the topics Fale has expressed interest in so far are pretty much all about You; your location, your activities, your plans, your backstory. For example:
+Ask about soul manipulation
+Ask about golems vs zombies
+Ask about Fale's motivation
+Offer info of current traveling companions
+Offer info of family life
-Veto discussing your meeting with the Elders in Yicelafo
So on and so forth.
Post by: Parisbre56 on July 20, 2015, 06:07:15 pm
Need to think about this a bit before I give a more complete answer in the form requested.
Regardless, we could try experimenting a bit. See if we have any control over our environment. Maybe have Nym summon a mirror and create a dress for herself. Or maybe change the area into a cave in a desolate ocean where Fale will be "accidentally"splashed by water.
Post by: 3man75 on July 20, 2015, 06:46:36 pm
You put me in a forrest looking for answers to find the souls of two small children who's parents were killed by your servants and who's bodies could be dying right now because you simply find it as collatoral damage. You might be a bringer of death but you are not below killing kids, so don't pretend to play bad boy.
Oh and if you have this link with the death god, then tell me WHAT does he really want? To be the one and only? A grand temple? What is he after?"
In return tell him Elves are scarred and stuck in gridlock debate over what to do about the return of the necromancers. ((lie that we helped get them to send advisers over and tighten the borders))
Post by: ydeve on July 20, 2015, 08:09:20 pm
1) Restoring Omo/soul manipulation
1.5) What are "captured" souls good for? There has to be some good reason for the necromancer to go to the effort to harvest those souls.
2) Motivations of Death god and Fale
3) other necromantic knowledge
Answering questions:
Our location: If Fale doesn't already know, don't tell him. Answer with a question: "Where do you think?" etc. If he just wants to confirm, that's ok with me, since it's probably not that hard for him anyway. But if he really doesn't know then we don't want to tell him that.
Sharing manifestation experience, our magical background, etc sounds fine to me.
Info on family life is fine as long as we don't offer specifics on location, specific people, etc. Kind of like what-one-would-share-on-the-internet level.
Same goes with info on companions, I suppose.
Post by: RAM on July 20, 2015, 09:14:42 pm
+The relationship between necromancy and souls.
+The practical application of necromancy to souls.*
+If they recently communicated with us when we were awake(and elaborate on the details).**
?+If they convince us that they communicated through the construct, then discuss the specifics of our relationship. Attempt to come to an agreement whereby the curse will stop eating people.(but realistically, the curse is pretty harmless compared to free-roaming necromancer of Doom...)
+The nature of their god, its purposes, aspects, inclinations, relationships. Give some idea if it is actually someone that we could conceivably have some sort of healthy relationship with.
+Discuss our early experiments.
- our location, but if they have our location, discuss our situation and what we are doing here(attempting to cure the children mostly...).
- The details of our companions, but we can mention their existence.
-elves and life magic. That would be other people's secrets...
*It should verify if they are the curse. If they know of the curse, then they can use that to figure out where we are, but otherwise, it should interest them a great deal to imply that we are in communication with an unknown necromancer and if e leave them to stew on the possibilities for a while then it may give us a bargaining chip of substantial value.
Post by: Baffler on July 20, 2015, 10:40:28 pm
+The nature of souls.
+The relationship between necromancy and souls.
+The practical application of necromancy to souls.*
+If they recently communicated with us when we were awake(and elaborate on the details).**
?+If they convince us that they communicated through the construct, then discuss the specifics of our relationship. Attempt to come to an agreement whereby the curse will stop eating people.(but realistically, the curse is pretty harmless compared to free-roaming necromancer of Doom...)
+The nature of their god, its purposes, aspects, inclinations, relationships. Give some idea if it is actually someone that we could conceivably have some sort of healthy relationship with.
+Discuss our early experiments.
- our location, but if they have our location, discuss our situation and what we are doing here(attempting to cure the children mostly...).
- The details of our companions, but we can mention their existence.
-elves and life magic. That would be other people's secrets...
*It should verify if they are the curse. If they know of the curse, then they can use that to figure out where we are, but otherwise, it should interest them a great deal to imply that we are in communication with an unknown necromancer and if e leave them to stew on the possibilities for a while then it may give us a bargaining chip of substantial value.
+1.
Post by: ydeve on July 21, 2015, 12:02:02 am
Post by: Zavvnao on July 28, 2015, 07:51:08 pm
And is the buggy construct soul thing we caught just a plot device, or are we gong to make friends with it?
Post by: Angle on July 28, 2015, 07:55:41 pm
Post by: RAM on July 28, 2015, 08:11:04 pm
Post by: Grek on July 28, 2015, 08:42:06 pm
Post by: Angle on July 28, 2015, 08:49:20 pm
So did anyone else see the invisible "M is false" text in the latest post?
Well spotted, my good man.
Post by: Angle on July 28, 2015, 08:55:12 pm
The trees of Aloclesno stretch high above you, twisted and wretched, clawing for an impossibly black sky. Tiny spiders twinkle with purple flame in that light, weaving their webs to ensnare the forest. They swarm over Omo's lifeless body; you are not concerned. Omo is not there, though he needs you.
Turning around, you see another tree; the tree from the construct's memory, gnarled and fat, dominating the clearing. The ground is fissured and cracked at its base, rent by the warped roots that seem to grow by the moment. There is a hole in the ground beneath the tree; more a burrow than a pit, conspicuously free of the spiders everywhere else. You do not hesitate; Omo is in there.
The roots tear at your Ranger gear, the black earth staining your hands and knees. Warm yellow torchlight beckons you onward, and you crawl into a familiar stone room, with a familiar hearth, a familiar red sofa, and a dangerous ceiling. As you stand up you can see that the chamber is now dominated by a long wooden table bearing a map of Urak covered in bits of colored wood. On the far side of the table is a familiar elven figure.
"Nym, my dear! You are refreshingly easy to contact. Only four nights for a reunion." Fale Packunion smiles broadly. "I must say, you look wretched. Have you been blundering through the mud?"
Your wits return to you as you try to make sense of the situation. "This is a dream. I was dreaming, and now I'm here."
"Yes, very astute of you, applause applause." Fale waves a hand to the table. "Have a seat, take a load off."
You disregard the high-backed chair he offers; you're certain it wasn't there a moment ago. "I told you before, Fale, I have no interest in your world-domination scheme."
"No? Didn't you flee your home for fear of being discovered?" Fale asks smugly.
"I didn't flee, and my friends haven't abandoned me." You reply hotly. You take a breath, drawing Omo's Ranger cloak around you as you regain your composure. "What do you want with me?"
Fale seems disconcerted for a moment, but the smile is back soon enough. "Well, I was thinking that we got off on the wrong foot the other night. Let's not allow politics to get between us; us Necromancers have to stick together. We all serve the will of Marko in our own way." M is false
"I don't worship your Death god, Fale." You reply, not quite keeping the edge from your voice.
"Maybe you should. He is the source of your power, after all." Fale shakes his head angrily. "Ahh, I didn't bring you here to argue. Either you'll see that I'm right in the end, or I will be forced to acknowledge your superior path. Listen, the way I see it, we can help each other out. I'm the best Necromancer in the world, and I've got a direct line to Marko. I'd like to count myself your colleague, at least, and I'd like to more know about you in that case. What you're trying to accomplish, where you are going; burn me, I'll settle for learning more about the Elves than I know now. Come on, you've got to have some questions about your powers by now!"
You are about to refuse him again, but hesitate. Fale might be able to help you out with restoring Omo. Burn you, he might be able to give a complete walkthrough if you tell him the full situation. You don't know if you can trust him, though... maybe just a couple questions will give you the insight you need. Or maybe you have a plan that is safe enough already; you're pretty sure it will work, everything you've puzzled out seems to make sense. But are you willing to gamble Omo's life on it?
Whoops, didn't mean to post this seperately and now I can't delete it. Oh well.
Post by: Tomcost on July 28, 2015, 08:57:01 pm
Post by: ydeve on July 28, 2015, 10:14:45 pm
Post by: Angle on July 29, 2015, 12:13:00 am
Post by: RAM on July 29, 2015, 12:13:27 am
Do we even know what the context of that is? Did we hear it? Suspect it? Sense it with weird necrosense? Maybe it is just a hidden clue for the players with no real presenceWhat ever happened to good old microtext? Transparent is just cheating...
Perhaps it should be inspiration for a question to Fale...
P.S.
Try searching for "=transparent". I only found one other instance (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=96692.msg4233335#msg4233335) and it wasn't story-related...
Post by: Angle on July 29, 2015, 12:40:25 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on July 29, 2015, 05:39:15 am
So did anyone else see the invisible "M is false" text in the latest post?Yep. I did notice that. I even commented on it, along with the fact that Marko is not the name he used for the god last time we met, but nobody seemed very interested.
Did anybody else catch that hidden message? Coupled with the name distortion, I wonder what that means...
"My name is Fale Packunion, and Morka is my god."Could just comment that mixing up his god's name doesn't sound very pious of him.
Post by: trillioneyes on July 29, 2015, 09:35:22 am
"You know, I thought it was odd when Mokra told me another Necromancer would arise- it wasn't in the plan, y'know? And then you took so long to-"
Post by: ydeve on July 30, 2015, 12:26:51 pm
Post by: RAM on July 30, 2015, 05:00:24 pm
Post by: nomoetoe on August 07, 2015, 01:23:22 am
Post by: ydeve on August 25, 2015, 12:11:25 am
I find the thing about the sanctuary really weird. Does anyone have any ideas on how we could just pass through the temple sanctuary when Eko says it shouldn't be possible?
"The wards will only disrupt Necromancy which attempts to cross the boundary. My temple is protected by a Sanctuary; I had to dispel it to get the zombie into the basement, but I was able to reform it around the creature with no ill effect, as you saw yourself."
"You cannot see it, but I can, and it looks as strong as a wall to me. The Sanctuary will physically repel any Necromantic creature which tries to pass through it, and it will unravel any Necromantic spells cast at us through it."
If a Necromancer came here, they couldn't pass through the Sanctuary without taking significant damage unless they were strong enough to overwhelm the ward."
"This Sanctuary could hold back Curo Nightroar himself if need be."
This explains that Death spells, Necromantic constructs, and Necromancers themselves all shouldn't be able to travel through a Sanctuary. Yet we did.
"The world is made of layers of magic, from all the Faiths. All magic can be accessed from anywhere if you know how, and at a very fundamental level we are all made out of a blending of the different Magical Elements."
"Normally, all the different Elements within us balance out, so you wouldn't notice anything. However, for some people this isn't true; they have more of a particular Element within them. These people usually develop magical talent of some kind; those strong with Order have the potential to become Wizards, for example, or those formed of Chaos can become Shaman."
"And the people born with lots of Death magic in them become Necromancers, then?"
"Yes, basically. Those people with a strong affinity for an Element will be affected by wards; the stronger they are, the more intense the effects. This Sanctuary is a strong ward indeed; it reorders Elemental magics passing through it in such a way as to negate the energies of Death magic with precisely arranged patterns of Life and to actively disrupt and harm it with certain combinations of other Elements. If a Necromancer came here, they couldn't pass through the Sanctuary without taking significant damage unless they were strong enough to overwhelm the ward."
"This Sanctuary could hold back Curo Nightroar himself if need be."
"Many natural creatures can be strongly aligned with an element; you Elves are almost all aligned with Life more strongly than any human, while Goblins are Chaos incarnate. Most creatures associated with Death aren't properly alive, like wraiths and wights and the like, but many carrion eaters have some affinity for Death."
"So is that what your wards are all about then? Altering magical energies?"
"That is the heart of it, yes. Everything in the world is balanced, but as long as you maintain the equilibrium it can be reordered to achieve favorable effects. That is what most Order magic boils down to."
So the way I see it, either we were undetected by the ward (why?) or we overwhelmed the ward. (That would make us a very strong death mage indeed.) If the ward was overwhelmed, would it necessarily be destroyed? Eko doesn't seem to say. I need to go back and reread what happened when we entered the temple sanctuary.
Edit: Also, yes -Veto discussing your meeting with the Elders in Yicelafo. Don't want to tell him what the elves' plans are yet.
Post by: RAM on August 25, 2015, 12:39:24 am
Post by: monk12 on October 02, 2015, 03:24:43 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Trade questions - s/he(?) gets a question, you get a question.
Be careful. Fale certainly has ulterior motives to these questions. Even the most simple seeming thing, "I'll settle for learning more about the elves than I know now" may be a prelude to invasion.
That map seems interesting, and is in plain sight. Take a closer look.
So much we need to learn, but this is a dangerous tutor. Best if we keep any questions vague, and offer little as to our intentions. We could ask about souls in a roundabout way. Perhaps we could point out the flaws of shambling corpses and mindless golems, and ask about disembodied souls - spirits, spectres, and ghosts. Then ask about the bond between soul and body and how the two may be separated or relinked. We could even ask about possession.
Getting Fale to brag seems like it would be pretty easy as well. Maybe we could get some information about the current state of affairs in the world, especially in regard to Curo Nightroar and the Pirate King. We could also ask about the history of Balkoth's time, maybe even with direct questions about the conquering of the Sacred Grove, or the curse on the Forest of Aloclesno.
Fale seems to be offering overtures. I think we could ask for a gesture of good faith. Fale must have access to an extensive library. I say we ask for a necromantic spellbook so that we may further our learning.
In the end, both he and us want the same thing: the world safe for Necromancers. He thinks the only way is world domination. We're looking for a different way, which he said he's ok with. The way I see this campaign, the objective isn't really "defeat the evil necromancers," but rather "find a way to bring peace to the world." (Which cannot happen as long as everyone kills any necromancer on sight)
tldr: He's not saying we join forces. He's offering us help as a third party. Take the help but make it clear we aren't going to conquer the world for him. Our goal: finding an alternative to conquering everyone that lets necromancers live safely.
Fale stretches one hand towards you, almost pleadingly. "Come on, you've got to have some questions about your powers by now!"
You turn away from Fale, examining the map on the central table while you mull over your response. It is a beautifully made thing, even finer than the map Pevo Zehpyrtempest owned back in Yicelafo. It is made from the hide of a small cow or similar animal, tanned and painted in vivid hues of green and gold and blue. You can trace the route you traveled from Larathor to Bedscaled, though the towns and roads are marked in a language you do not understand. The Sacred Grove is painted with an ashen, defeated shade of grey while the Young Vale is a verdant green hue, and the Black Swamps of the Golgothans are a purple so dark it borders on black.
Yo░ cannot ░eep h░r ░ro░ m░ f░░░ve░
"Marvelous, isn't it?" Fale says dreamily. "No Necromancer since the Golgothan War has had a host such as this to command. It's a shame Nightroar chooses to squander it." You blink at him in confusion before realizing that he refers to the colored blocks of wood littering the map. They are smooth and highly polished, and many of them hold a tiny paper flag with other symbols drawn on them, no two alike; perhaps coats of arms or some similar form of identification. You see a few small green blocks on the eastern borders of the Walled Jungles near Larathor; no doubt parties of Rangers securing the border. Interestingly, one block of green wood is situated just east of Larathor, near the numerous and larger white blocks spread north and south along the Great River. More white blocks are mustered near Atkilpeme further to the east.
While the white blocks in Thrimsedur bear flags adorned with a wide variety of symbols, the purple blocks scattered haphazardly across the plains are largely unadorned, with three notable exceptions: a modest concentration in the northern hills of Bothoninen, a huge mass strung along the road to Atkilpeme in the east, and most alarmingly a moderate force along the northern border of the forest of Aloclesno. These groups are all marked with a small flag bearing a ram's horns. There are other blocks all over the map- unmarked grey blocks in Bothoninen and the mountains north of that, a couple blocks painted a lighter shade of purple (almost lavender) mixed with a dozen different shades of blue along the Jeweled Coast, a few rich brown blocks in dwarven lands- but Fale's impatient stare makes you turn away.
"I can't support your war, Fale." You say firmly. "All of this killing, this suffering... it can't be necessary. There must be another way."
"Yeesh. I'd heard that elves were peaceful and naive, but this is ridiculous." Fale quips, giving lie to the pointed ears he has now. "They've been killing Necromancers wherever they can find them for the last thousand years, Nym. Face it- its them or us."
"No. I will find another way, whatever it takes." You look Fale dead in the eye. "If you're sincere about us being colleagues, then why don't we keep things... academic? I'll let the politics drop if you will."
Fale rubs his chin. "A question for a question, then?"
You shake your head. "You know more than I do about everything, it seems; I have no way to know what questions I can answer that won't lead to more war. How about I volunteer information, and you decide if it's worth a question?"
Fale scowls, then barks an abrupt laugh. "Fine! You drive a hard bargain, Nym, but the dialogue has to start somewhere. However, in the interests of good faith, how about you show me the quality of your volunteering first? I feel I've more than met you halfway."
"Fair enough." You take a deep breath, thinking of a safe topic. "Alright, how about this: I only manifested as a Necromancer a little more than three weeks ago. I had been having odd dreams, headaches with no cause that went as quickly as they came, losing Mana for no real reason... looking back on it, I think I was casting Necromancy spells without knowing it. One day I was out at my fishing hole, and accidentally brought one of my trout back as a zombie. I was so shocked, I passed out." You shrug sheepishly. "There was no doubt I was the one who did it, though. That's when I knew I was a Necromancer."
Fale swirls a wineglass he wasn't holding a moment ago. "Interesting. Where was this fishing hole? Somewhere secluded?"
"It was a tributary of the Great River; I'm the only one who fished there."
Fale nods to himself. "And I'm sure you were smart enough to keep that experience to yourself. What did you do with your first zombie?"
You shrug. "The same thing I did to all the other fish I caught; I ate it."
Fale raises an eyebrow. "You ate a zombie?" he asks incredulously.
You grin at the handsome elven man. "Well, yes, but that's another story; my first zombie wasn't a zombie by the time I ate it. But before I tell you that story, I believe you owe me a question."
Fale takes a sip of wine, regaining his composure. "Yes, I suppose so. Ask away."
You lean forward on the table. "Tell me what you know about souls."
Fale arches one eyebrow. "Souls? An advanced topic for such a young Necromancer." He smiles and sets his wineglass down on the table. "It's funny, really; Nightroar's first questions were along those lines as well. Tell me, have you made a study of a living creature's Vitality network? Do you know how?"
"I do and I have." You reply coolly.
"Excellent news!" Fale exclaims happily. His fingers begin to glow with a phosphorous purple fire as they trace through the air, leaving floating sparks as they outline a humanoid form. "The soul is closely tied to the brain and the thoughts of a creature; I'm sure you've noticed that your own zombies do not have very much initiative or autonomy. That mindlessness comes from the zombie's lack of an animating spirit."
"I suspected as much myself." You say impatiently. "What I need to know is whether a Necromancer can manipulate them, or move them."
"You certainly can; it's the best way to improve your zombies. Now, the tricky part is that a soul has no Vitality. You cannot manipulate it directly. It is influenced by the Vitality network of the host, but it doesn't have any itself." Fale taps the chest of the diagram he created, causing purple embers to flare and drift away. "Your heart, for example, holds some Vitality; it needs a constant source of it to function, it grows stronger with more Vitality and weaker with less, and when Vitality leaves it it will quickly die. A soul, on the other hand, doesn't vary based on how much Vitality flows through you; it is just as strong when you are at 1 HP as it would be if you had 100 HP. What is important for the soul is that the Vitality flows in a particular way."
"I don't understand." You furrow your brow in concentration. "What way does Vitality need to flow? Isn't the soul the bundle of Vitality in your head?"
"Nnnno, not exactly." Fale drums his fingers on the table as he tries to explain. "Think of your body parts like a well; when your heart needs to function, it dips into its reservoir and draws some Vitality for use. A soul is more like a waterwheel; it doesn't have Vitality itself, but the movement of Vitality through it is what makes it function. Although, I suppose it's actually more like a water fountain; if the water flows through correctly then you have an impressive work of art, but if that same amount of water is guided incorrectly then you have an embarrassing dribble, or perhaps a big mess depending on how you screwed it up. It is the same with souls and Vitality; the soul needs Vitality to be meaningful or useful, but it is not itself a construct of Vitality."
"Okay." You sigh, trying to work through Fale's metaphor. "So the bundle is... the well?"
Fale taps the head of his magic floating diagram. "The 'bundle' is called the Unolnimar; it is an ancient term which means 'Soul Path,' or idiomatically 'the path to the soul.' The Unolnimar is how the soul connects to the body, and it is unique to every individual living thing, the same way that souls are unique." Fale grins, laying a finger alongside his nose conspiratorially- not a common Elven mannerism, though you've seen human merchant guards with the Caravan do it enough to understand its meaning. "There is a lot to be said about souls, but those are the basics as they apply to Necromancy. I can tell you more, but I think you owe me another story first."
"Alright." You take a moment to think through your zombie-eating story for anything potentially harmful to your homeland, but come up empty. "Alright, then. I was on my way to the Caravan Fair, and I was doing some small Necromantic experiments to prevent mana buildup-"
"Hang on a moment." Fale interrupts, sitting on the edge of the table. "It's not much of a story if you don't give me the details. What's the Caravan Fair? Were you traveling alone?"
"The Caravan Fair is the festival for when the human Caravan makes its way from Thrimesdur through Yicelafo to the Jeweled Coast in the spring; The Caravans are where we buy most of our imports, and it's how we get most of our news as well. This one brought news of the Necromancers."
"And how was that received?" Fale asks keenly.
"That's not part of this story." You reply pointedly. "I was on my way to the Fair, traveling by myself; my friend had gone on ahead. I was doing some small experiments with some basic spells on two dead minnows."
"Minnows, eh? Small subjects to learn from." Fale muses. "How 'basic' are we talking with your spells?"
You shrug. "Raising zombies, commanding them, stealing their Vitality. Things like that. Anyway, I was getting close to my destination so I decided to end the experiments... by eating one of the zombies I was commanding."
"You were commanding the zombie you ate?" Fale asks with an audible mixture of disgust and morbid curiosity. "I... what was that like?"
"Ah, pretty gross." You say nonchalantly. "Almost couldn't get the minnow down, and after that it's about what you'd expect. Darkness, wetness, acid. I lost visual pretty quickly, but it took a while for the zombie to die again."
"Well... I guess I never need to do that myself, now." Fale shakes his head before standing back up. "Right then, what's your next question?"
You lick your lips nervously. "How would I move a soul from one place to another?"
Fale gives a low whistle. "What are you up to?"
"Answer the question, Fale." You reply, failing to keep a distinct edge from your voice.
"Well it does impact my answer, Nym." Fale says impatiently. "The general answer would be that you need to exactly recreate the Unolnimar with Arosh in your selected host."
"Arosh?" You ask, bewildered.
"It's, you know, the stuff you use to do... things." Fale casts around for a suitable definition. "It's the force you create out of mana when you cast your Necromancy spells; it holds together your zombies, guides the flow of Vitality, all that good stuff."
"Oh, you mean Necromantic Energy."
"No, you mean Arosh." Fale spits back at you. "Moark above, 'Necromantic Energy.' What a mouthful. The Golgothans called it Arosh in their language, and it's got about a quarter of the syllables."
"Yeah, fine, Arosh, whatever." You reply impatiently. "So you just have to duplicate the Unolwhatever with Arosh and you're good to go, then?"
"Oh my no." Fale shakes his head. "That's half the work. Once you've contained the Unolnimar, you need to mind where it connects to the rest of the host's Vitality or else it won't be able to interface with your host, and if you really screw up it could be rejected. And that's just to get it into your chosen host; it would take years of practice to master all the little things you need to do to keep control of the soul, or to do anything useful with it." Fale smiles, snapping his figures. "Luckily for you, though, you're talking to Moark's representative on Urak! I can help you join with Moark, and then he will be able to act through you to do... whatever thing it is you want to accomplish. He can make sure everything turns out exactly the way you want it, and he'll keep you from making a hash of the job."
You mull it over for a moment. "And what if I don't want Moark to do it for me? Can't you just show me how?"
"I've told you everything I know." Fale shakes his head. "It really is a case by case thing; I usually let Moark do it for me. He's the embodiment of Necromancy, there's no one better qualified. I know he would very much like to make your acquaintance; all you have to do is accept his offer of help. What do you say?"
░░! R░s░░t ░░e i░░░ue░ce ░░ M, L░f░░iv░r!
You step back to consider this newest appeal. If Fale is right, aligning with Moark would be the surest way to save Omo. But is aligning with Fale's Death God something you want to do? Perhaps you have learned enough to handle this situation yourself; for some reason, you are uneasy with this situation. Still, is Omo's life worth any risk?
Post by: nomoetoe on October 02, 2015, 03:57:16 pm
I suggest we do the having Moark help thing, its risky but if it saves Omo then we've got to do this.
Post by: Descan on October 02, 2015, 05:11:00 pm
Yo░ cannot ░eep h░r ░ro░ m░ f░░░ve░
You cannot keep her from me forever.
[...]your acquaintance; all you have to do is accept his offer of help. What do you say?"
░░! R░s░░t ░░e i░░░ue░ce ░░ M, L░f░░iv░r!
No! Resist the influence of M, [Proper name]!
Hmmm. Whoever this voice is, they're expecting Fale to hear them, since the first line was talking to him directly. I assume the proper name is us but... I don't actually know our name.
Post by: XXXXYYYY on October 02, 2015, 05:22:01 pm
[...]defeated shade of grey while the Young Vale is a verdant green hue, and the Black Swamps of the Golgothans are a purple so dark it borders on black.I think it's "You cannot keep her from me forever." and "No! resist the influence of M, Lifegiver." Lifegiver is obviously us, what with the whole elves thing and direct address, and "her" could very well be us as well by association.
Yo░ cannot ░eep h░r ░ro░ m░ f░░░ve░
You cannot keep her from my... me... something.
[...]your acquaintance; all you have to do is accept his offer of help. What do you say?"[/glow]
░░! R░s░░t ░░e i░░░ue░ce ░░ M, L░f░░iv░r!
No! Resist the influence of M, [Proper name]!
Don't take Moark's help. It doesn't feel right, and I think M's not what Fale thinks he is. I don't know what he is, exactly, but it's not going to be good either way.
Post by: Descan on October 02, 2015, 05:29:18 pm
Post by: Angle on October 02, 2015, 05:53:27 pm
Post by: Andres on October 02, 2015, 06:01:57 pm
Post by: RAM on October 02, 2015, 11:12:41 pm
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on October 03, 2015, 12:18:16 am
Refuse the offer.
I agree
Post by: Dustan Hache on October 03, 2015, 01:49:30 am
Post by: RAM on October 03, 2015, 02:56:41 am
Post by: Descan on October 03, 2015, 10:43:29 am
Bonus points if we go "So tell me about Morak!" "Well, Moark is (x)" "Aaahh, so why should I follow Murky?" and so forth. Mocking him and teasing him. :V
Post by: syvarris on October 03, 2015, 04:35:35 pm
Pretend to accept the offer, but do not let yourself be taken control of. Probe for information where possible and if worst comes to worst, try not to die.
Veto. I bet this 'accepting M's help' is what caused so many Necromancers in the past to go on conquering sprees. If so many have been overpowered before, it's unwise to think we're the one who'll resist it. I don't think just pretending to accept would let the god take us over, but there's no reason to risk it. I do think we should act like we consider it an option, so that they don't decide we're a lost cause, but we shouldn't accept the control either. We should just string them along and try to get more out of this relationship than we give.
"I just cannot accept a deity that I know so little of, you haven't even been consistent with its name."+1. Questions without question marks are always good in situations like this.
Nah, we shouldn't just say we know he's been inconsistent, but we should use the other names he's used.Let's not taunt an avatar of the death god, even if it does leave itself so open to mocking.
Bonus points if we go "So tell me about Morak!" "Well, Moark is (x)" "Aaahh, so why should I follow Murky?" and so forth. Mocking him and teasing him. :V
So if Mork is talking to Fale then I guess that it must be Gork that is talking to us. So all we need to do its to avoid the shrooms...
Nah, it's Mindy speaking to us.
Post by: Baffler on October 07, 2015, 06:17:58 pm
Nah, we shouldn't just say we know he's been inconsistent, but we should use the other names he's used.
Bonus points if we go "So tell me about Morak!" "Well, Moark is (x)" "Aaahh, so why should I follow Murky?" and so forth. Mocking him and teasing him. :V
+1. Perhaps outright taunting isn't the way to go, but we definitely need to call him out on this one. If he's trying to pull one over on us he's not doing a very good job of it. Or maybe he's avoiding saying Mothra's actual name for whatever reason.
Post by: ydeve on October 07, 2015, 10:54:07 pm
+1 Don't join M.
But this is a great opportunity to get more information about Necromancy gods. I highly doubt M is the only one. Remember the Golgothans worshiped a god with a different name. If we first ask how we'd contact Fale's god (and what we should expect) and then ask about other necromancy gods (we can even bring up the golgothan one. I have to archive dive first to find his name) we might have an idea of how to contact them. Maybe we'd be able to find help for Omo from someone less bloodthirsty.
(There has to be a less bloodthirsty Necromancy god. The Golgothans existed in coexistence with everyone else for a while before the war, and necromancy is inherently ethically neutral)
By the way, it seems we now have an idea what Fale does with the souls he harvests. He said they can be transplanted to other constructs and controlled to create more useful servants.
Post by: Parisbre56 on October 07, 2015, 11:19:26 pm
Post by: RAM on October 08, 2015, 01:12:14 am
Post by: Descan on October 08, 2015, 08:48:24 am
Post by: Sscral on October 09, 2015, 04:48:11 pm
Off the cuff, but what if M is a parasite deity that's taken the place of the real Necromancy god, twisting necromancy into something evil, and it's the real god who's trying to contact us with those invisible text messages?
Ah, but what if the mysterious voice is the evil psychotic Necromancy god(Or nightroar) and M is an all around nice guy that loves undead puppies and kittens?
Post by: LordPorkins on November 03, 2015, 02:21:41 pm
Post by: RAM on November 03, 2015, 03:59:06 pm
I am still uncertain about what we should do with the forest. It seems within the realm of possibility that Fale is The Curse, they both appear to be ancient necromancers, or Fale could be the the force animating the skeletal monstrosity that, umm, it is the old elven lands that are now a blighted wasteland? That thing was meant to have lasted way too long to be conventional necromancy, and it looks like Balkoth found a way to make necromantic effects last, well, ludicrously long times, and the forest one seems to have some capacity for communication. Honestly, I am inclined to go visit it, it seems like it would be lonely as much as anything, and, well, completely insane, but when you have basically been an forest spirit that must sustain itself through cannibalism for a thousand years... But honestly, it was probably some enthusiastic, but politically awkward necromancer that was converted into some sort of magic spell and then basically abandoned...
Post by: LordPorkins on November 03, 2015, 07:29:54 pm
Combat Necromancy: Could we drain the vitality from someone in the midst of a battle? Do we need to focus solely on the magic or can we have a Vampiric Hand? How fast can we perform this action? [/b]
Dis be the wise words of Porkins,
Post by: Ruludos on November 04, 2015, 12:59:34 am
Off the cuff, but what if M is a parasite deity that's taken the place of the real Necromancy god, twisting necromancy into something evil, and it's the real god who's trying to contact us with those invisible text messages?
Perhaps M is an alternative god whose worship was ushered in by Balkoth, driving the more conservative gods of Necromancy to near-death through faith starvation even before the Golgothans lost the war. I think that syvarris was on to something when he speculated M was the driving force behind the warlike nature that necromancers seem to default to; giving in to M seems like an incredibly bad idea.
I vote for more stalling in the dreamscape via mining for more info about the Necromancy pantheon.
Post by: LordPorkins on November 05, 2015, 10:55:40 am
Off the cuff, but what if M is a parasite deity that's taken the place of the real Necromancy god, twisting necromancy into something evil, and it's the real god who's trying to contact us with those invisible text messages?
Perhaps M is an alternative god whose worship was ushered in by Balkoth, driving the more conservative gods of Necromancy to near-death through faith starvation even before the Golgothans lost the war. I think that syvarris was on to something when he speculated M was the driving force behind the warlike nature that necromancers seem to default to; giving in to M seems like an incredibly bad idea.
I vote for more stalling in the dreamscape via mining for more info about the Necromancy pantheon.
Uh. No. Whether this Necromancer-God is real or a substitute or dead is moot point. We know three things.
1) Its Evil, or at least it doesnt appear to follow rules like our own. Additionally, we have no idea what its motives (if any) are. Its unpredictable, and that makes it dangerous. Theres no way we could safely approach it
2) Its much, much, MUCH more powerful than us. I mean, its a god. As long as we stay out of dream-land, it really cant influence us much. Other than necromancers, it doesnt have that much contact woth the real world (i hope)
3) If we are in a dream, we have zero help. Unless we find some sort of elven voodoo doctor *sneakily elbows monk12* who could help us, wed be taking on a god and whatever fiendish apparations he brought with him. Or maybe Eko could join us if he probes pur thoughts. Or maybe hed see Ms real form. I dunno, but the possibilities are quite intriguing
Then again, we could just YOLO the hell out of this, but at the very least we'd want to have Eko to shake us awake if we start chanting the instructions for artifact mug crafting or whatever
Edit: Get out now, then consider options. Theres no way this is gonna go well of we are unprepared. Say you want to think on it and tell them to come back tommorow (sleeping). Also say you arent doing anything till Omos safe. Your a necromancer. This is like a very rare oppurtunity for them. They'll probably listen to your (reasonable) demands. We are gonna have to confront them, but get out for now. Think of this Freddy-Krueger style. Falling asleep randomly=Bloody Evisceration, Trying to stay awake= Delaying of Inevitable, Going in with knives (Like the chick in the third one) and since we arent addicted to heroin, well be be relatively ok.
Edit-Edit: Always listen to voices in your head. Totally good idea. Seriously, lets go with this guy on this one. But we need a name for him. I vote for "Li'l Buddy"
Post by: syvarris on November 05, 2015, 01:59:41 pm
I don't think staying in the dreamscape and talking wil be harmful in itself, because Buddy said that M couldn't keep us away forever. That implies that Buddy will win, as long as we don't do anything stupid. Currently, we can't be certain that we want Buddy to win, but it seems like a fair bet considering how openly manipulative Fale is.
Post by: Parisbre56 on November 05, 2015, 05:06:43 pm
I say listen to the voice. Try to find a way to escape and contact it. There must be a way out of here. Maybe there is a way to use necromancy to manipulate the "dangerous" ceiling?
Post by: LordPorkins on November 05, 2015, 08:36:59 pm
it seems unlikely that we would be able to do anything at all to the ceiling. I mean, its not dead/alive. Additionally, this entire realm/dream/scape/thingy is probably maintained by Fale or possibly M, and we really cant do much against them as i said earlier. However, examining your surroundings is a good idea. Try looking at your surroundings, using Necromantic sight as well as Detect Magic. For that matter, can you even cast spells? We should try that.
Post by: RAM on November 05, 2015, 08:52:16 pm
Post by: Baffler on November 05, 2015, 10:23:02 pm
Thinking about it more though, I wonder if we could conduct the repair ourselves. I'm not decided enough to cast a vote on it, but there might be something to it. Fale doesn't know what we're up to, and he had this to say about the process:
Quote
"Yeah, fine, Arosh, whatever." You reply impatiently. "So you just have to duplicate the Unolwhatever with Arosh and you're good to go, then?"
"Oh my no." Fale shakes his head. "That's half the work. Once you've contained the Unolnimar, you need to mind where it connects to the rest of the host's Vitality or else it won't be able to interface with your host, and if you really screw up it could be rejected. And that's just to get it into your chosen host; it would take years of practice to master all the little things you need to do to keep control of the soul, or to do anything useful with it." Fale smiles, snapping his figures. "Luckily for you, though, you're talking to Moark's representative on Urak! I can help you join with Moark, and then he will be able to act through you to do... whatever thing it is you want to accomplish. He can make sure everything turns out exactly the way you want it, and he'll keep you from making a hash of the job."
We don't need to take control of Omo's soul or turn it to our own twisted ends, so modifying the Unolnimar isn't necessary like it probably would be if we wanted to "do something useful with it." The Unolnimar is already contained for us as well, in the bag of energy the construct is carrying it in. It probably isn't going anywhere. We can presumably use Arosh to move that bag around, with a rope structure like the construct did. If we can move the whole setup back into place, we could try to piece it back together by finding the largest and most obvious connections, then matching the rest gradually. Assuming it's kept its original conformation, the main problem we'll run into having enough mana and focus to piece it all back together without letting anything get loose or crossed up. If it did lose its shape when the construct grabbed it we'll be in for a much rougher time, and it probably isn't worth the risk of trying ourselves.
In either case, Eko might also be able to help us. He did talk about mages cooperating to accomplish complicated or expensive spells. Doing that would also almost certainly reveal to him that we're a necromancer. That might be something to consider, but it's a risk.
Post by: TheBiggerFish on November 05, 2015, 10:44:09 pm
Post by: RAM on November 05, 2015, 10:53:07 pm
Post by: Baffler on November 06, 2015, 12:38:23 am
There is also the chance of getting the curse to help us. It did seem to be issuing an invitation, and it stands to reason that its programming would allow it to make contact with a necromancer. It is entirely possible that it is one of Balkoth's underlings forcibly trapped in a restrictive magical construct and just wants something to change. It may do the classic begging for death thing or maybe it just wants someone to talk to, or it may even be looking to new instructions and wants us to prove ourselves as Balkoth's replacement. There are many scenarios in which it intends to trap us forever, possibly involving the repurposing of our vitality, but it is probably the best expert in Urak on what exactly happened to Omo... And it could even be Fale...
It did invite us, didn't it. It practically gave us an engraved invitation. I guess we should end our conversation with Fale for now, politely declining his offer for now but leaving our options open. In the morning, try to find the gnarled tree from the construct's memory. Letting the construct loose and following it would be probably be best, since it's still carrying Omo's soul around and probably knows where it's going.
Post by: RAM on November 06, 2015, 01:50:38 am
Post by: XXXXYYYY on November 06, 2015, 05:38:13 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on November 06, 2015, 06:24:36 am
Quote
Letting the construct loose and following it would be probably be best, since it's still carrying Omo's soul around and probably knows where it's going.One problem with that is that the connection with the golem controller has been severed, so the golem is completely inert now. That doesn't mean we can't go towards the location it was heading towards or the location it came from and hope for further guidance.
I want to keep Omo in one place. Honestly, we are in it pretty deep, confessing to Eko is kinf of tempting, especially to a young elf who may have just gotten their best friend killed...True, we could play the "young clueless girl that's afraid and just wants to help but lacks a teacher and ends up getting hunted by necromancers and other humans alike". Actually, now that I think about it, there's no need to play the part, since we actually are a young clueless girl that's afraid and just wants to help but lacks a teacher and ends up getting hunted by necromancers and other humans alike.
Post by: LordPorkins on November 06, 2015, 09:44:13 am
Post by: LordPorkins on November 06, 2015, 09:47:10 am
Post by: LordPorkins on November 06, 2015, 09:50:00 am
Post by: Baffler on November 06, 2015, 02:45:51 pm
QuoteLetting the construct loose and following it would be probably be best, since it's still carrying Omo's soul around and probably knows where it's going.One problem with that is that the connection with the golem controller has been severed, so the golem is completely inert now. That doesn't mean we can't go towards the location it was heading towards or the location it came from and hope for further guidance.
Ah, right. We can command it now right? We'll just have it follow us along, or go to that tree if it 'remembers' where it is.
Still, ending the conversation by thanking Fale but telling him aren't ready to make a decision yet is probably the way to go here. He is being manipulative, but he does seem to want to bring us around rather than do us harm. He even raises some valid points. But it's too sketchy to get involved with before we learn more about the situation IMO. Whatever controlled the construct is probably just as able to help us out as M, with the construct collecting souls and returning them it's probably using them for something and is probably rather good at messing with them after who knows how many years of doing it. It also can't possibly be as much of a threat as the God of Death.
Post by: crazyabe on November 06, 2015, 02:47:07 pm
Post by: LordPorkins on November 09, 2015, 09:56:13 am
P.s. The constructs probably from the necromancer we havent met
Post by: syvarris on November 09, 2015, 12:19:44 pm
I still want to stay and ask Fale more about soul crafting, but I can't think of any way to ask an immediately-useful question without making it obvious that we're messing with a person's soul. Maybe we could ask something about golem-crafting instead? Or about dream-crafting? Do we have any safe stories to trade?
Post by: Baffler on November 09, 2015, 05:27:09 pm
Post by: LordPorkins on November 10, 2015, 09:25:39 am
Do items i am holding gain Dream-Representations? Can i use them? How can i influence my dreams? Is the Invader in control (Like Inception) or can i, by conciously resisting, affect things in my favor (Evil Within) How much damage can be done to my mind and ohysical body in this dream state?
If enough of these are answered so that we have a chance of resisting, then i say go back into the dreamscape. If Eko's like "Yah, your screwed" Have him make a dream-ward.
Post by: syvarris on November 11, 2015, 10:00:29 pm
Huh. I've been using this avatar and personal text for over five years, yet this is the first time I've ever been called that.
I see your point that we can just learn more in future dreameetings, after we've researched how safe they are, but I still feel like we should take advantage of this opportunity. What we learn here could very well be the difference between life or death for Omo. Also, while we can't be sure that we can avoid more dreameetings, we also can't be sure that we'll have any more at all; Buddy may shield us from them, and Buddy also might not be able to teach us necromancy.
I vote that we stay long enough to ask one more question: What level of intelligence could we grant a golem, by creating its unolnimar, and what are the limitations--will a golem always come out seeming like an artificial personality or something? If (and only if) Fale asks for another question about us before it answers, then we can trade the story about how we learned potion making. While telling the story, do not specify our teacher's name, our teacher's role, where our teacher lived, or the area this took place in. Furthermore, try to mention how one of our motives was to see if we could learn from the process and apply some of our knowledge to working with vitality (but don't directly ask a question--Fish for free answers!).
This should hopefully trade safe information for very useful knowledge (how golem minds work, which is probably what the Curse is), and gives us a valuable alibi for our previous questions--we're messing with golems, and trying to imbue them with intelligence. I'm tempted to outright say that, and craft details for an entire false story, but I'm afraid actual bluffs will make Nym fail a skill check and make Fale distrust us. Also, if we're lucky, Fale might give us extra information about how moving vitality works--maybe our old idea about making healing potions is possible.
Also:
Spoiler: Vote Tally (click to show/hide)
Question for other players: Exactly what should we do once we wake up? There's been some talk about admitting our necromancy to Eko, talk about taking Omo to the tree, talk about fixing him here, talk about taking him to a healer, but precious few details, and little consensus. There's a fairly equal split between those who want to leave the dream, and those who want to stay, so we should probably decide now.
My opinion is that Upon waking up, we should experiment with mimicing the soul sac movement tentacle... thing, and try to figure out if we could move Omo's soul safely. Do not waste more than 4 MP trying this. If we can move it... try to repair Omo. If we can't, we explain to Eko that we don't know how to repair Omo, and then we ask for his advice and assistance. At no point should we admit to being a necromancer.
Reading back, we have several serious problems that haven't been addressed: First, Eko said that the sanctuary he cast can physically damage necromancers that pass through it. We can't leave until it naturally ends, which could take days. Second, we apparently don't have food that Omo can eat, so we can't sit out here indefinitely, although people can go without food for a remarkably long period. Third, we can't move the construct far, and it can't move itself very fast, so Omo's soul might be rooted to the spot. Fourth, the position organs that the construct has probably mean that the curse knows exactly where we are, and might be sending a stronger force to attack us.
The first problem could be solved if we tell Eko we're a necromancer, but that is a very dangerous thing to do. I doubt Eko would attack us immediately (he seems like a level-headed individual who thinks before acting), but he wouldn't have any great reason to trust us--This entire situation could conceivably have been engineered for us to get near the curse relatively safely, and kill/trap him and Omo. Although, it's probably not a game-ending plan, because we should be able to kill Eko with one spell, relatively easily.
Post by: LordPorkins on November 12, 2015, 07:45:02 pm
...
...
...
Someone whos good at forums figure out what in urists name hes doing
Though to be fair, you do make some good points syvarris. Additionally, i like "stealthy swine" we are gonna get along just fine
However, Ekos claim that necromancers are damaged by these barriers is questionable. I mean, there hasnt been a necromancer in.... What, a thousand years? I doubt that the spell is still 100% effective. Obviously lets not test it, but still. If Fale can contact us through it, it stands to reason its not working properly. We are going to need to tell eko about our current.... Situation, as he might be the only one who can disable the sanctuary. If we ask him to take it down hes probably going to figure out somethings fishy. He seems pretty smart.
Post by: LordPorkins on November 13, 2015, 09:25:18 am
Post by: Gwythur on November 13, 2015, 10:36:11 am
Reading back, we have several serious problems that haven't been addressed: First, Eko said that the sanctuary he cast can physically damage necromancers that pass through it. We can't leave until it naturally ends, which could take days.
This is not a problem. We seem to be unaffected by Eko's sanctuary spell. In fact, we have walked through his sanctuary before, when entering his temple. Not only did we pass without incident, or even notice, monk12 confirmed there was no error in the storytelling.
Something weird is going on here. Eko claims his temple was protected by a Sanctuary, which should have prevented any necromancer from entering. Yet we entered just fine. So either Monk made a mistake, or some necromancers can pass unopposed through a Sanctuary wall.
I can confirm there was no error. The explanation for the discrepancy between what Eko said about his wards and what you observed in crossing them I leave to your powers of deduction.
I have a theory about this. Eko explained that his sanctuary blocks people and creatures attuned to an element.
"Yes, basically. Those people with a strong affinity for an Element will be affected by wards; the stronger they are, the more intense the effects. This Sanctuary is a strong ward indeed; it reorders Elemental magics passing through it in such a way as to negate the energies of Death magic with precisely arranged patterns of Life and to actively disrupt and harm it with certain combinations of other Elements. If a Necromancer came here, they couldn't pass through the Sanctuary without taking significant damage unless they were strong enough to overwhelm the ward."
In this same conversation, Eko points out that Elves, such as we are, are naturally attuned to Life magic.
"Yes, but not just zombies. Many natural creatures can be strongly aligned with an element; you Elves are almost all aligned with Life more strongly than any human, while Goblins are Chaos incarnate. Most creatures associated with Death aren't properly alive, like wraiths and wights and the like..."
So sanctuary works by blocking Death magic and those attuned to it with precise patterns of Life magic. But, as an elf, our attunement to Life magic prevents those precise patterns from affecting us adversely. Our magical aura may be enough in balance that Life spells designed to harm necromancers simply will not harm us.
Immunity to the countereffects of Life magic could make us one of the most dangerous necromancers ever, should we ever decide to take a darker path. But I suspect that if we were to grow too strong in necromantic power, we would increase our affinity to Death magic, and our aura would no longer be balanced.
As a tangent to this, I believe that the mysterious voice we are getting a weak signal from in the background of the dream is some form of Life spirit, deity, or higher power, which is able to contact us because of our Elven affinity for Life . I do not believe that Fale is aware of this background signal.
[...]defeated shade of grey while the Young Vale is a verdant green hue, and the Black Swamps of the Golgothans are a purple so dark it borders on black.I think it's "You cannot keep her from me forever." and "No! resist the influence of M, Lifegiver." Lifegiver is obviously us, what with the whole elves thing and direct address, and "her" could very well be us as well by association.
Yo░ cannot ░eep h░r ░ro░ m░ f░░░ve░
You cannot keep her from my... me... something.
[...]your acquaintance; all you have to do is accept his offer of help. What do you say?"[/glow]
░░! R░s░░t ░░e i░░░ue░ce ░░ M, L░f░░iv░r!
No! Resist the influence of M, [Proper name]!
While we are still in the dreamworld, I would like to try to make a stronger connection to the background signal, hopefully while avoiding Fale's notice. Try to make a mental contact by thinking at it. If we can cannot make a connection on a purely mental level, try to work the phrase "I hear you" into conversation with Fale in a seemingly innocuous manner.
It's not time to make a deal with Fale and accept his god, yet. The mental picture of the tree is too strong a lead not to follow before making any commitments. We know from what Eko told us about the other soulless he cared for in the temple that our friend Omo will be stable for some time, and can "live" for years soulless if properly cared for. Worst case scenario, we can leave him with a healer while we continue on.
I am personally out of questions to ask Fale right now, though others may have suggestions. We have kept our conversation civil and fair, and we can leave him with a hope that he may yet recruit us to his cause. Once we wrap up the conversation, shall we suggest we meet again in the dreamworld in 3 days time?
Post by: LordPorkins on November 13, 2015, 06:04:32 pm
Post by: LordPorkins on November 13, 2015, 06:17:59 pm
We could also try to summon monk directly. Ive got the nacho cheese and the obsidian dagger, but someones gotta get me the Colosoluss grease and the live gobbo. We could even add Dragon snot for increased success chance
Post by: Descan on November 13, 2015, 06:46:12 pm
2) Bumping the thread makes people think there's something to read and/or Monk posted an update. Neither of which is true. So you look like a dick.
3) Monk has gone longer without posting an update. And just how do you expect someone to take over a story like this? :V He's probably got notes coming out of every orifice, you want someone to try and replicate that, or worse just ignore them?
Post by: LordPorkins on November 14, 2015, 06:05:29 pm
Post by: monk12 on November 28, 2015, 05:29:54 pm
Nah, we shouldn't just say we know he's been inconsistent, but we should use the other names he's used.
Bonus points if we go "So tell me about Morak!" "Well, Moark is (x)" "Aaahh, so why should I follow Murky?" and so forth. Mocking him and teasing him. :V
It would be good to know who it is that's giving those invisible hints. Another Necromancy god or something else? We definitely need someone else's help to restore Omo's soul.
+1 Don't join M.
But this is a great opportunity to get more information about Necromancy gods. I highly doubt M is the only one. Remember the Golgothans worshiped a god with a different name. If we first ask how we'd contact Fale's god (and what we should expect) and then ask about other necromancy gods (we can even bring up the golgothan one. I have to archive dive first to find his name) we might have an idea of how to contact them. Maybe we'd be able to find help for Omo from someone less bloodthirsty.
(There has to be a less bloodthirsty Necromancy god. The Golgothans existed in coexistence with everyone else for a while before the war, and necromancy is inherently ethically neutral)
By the way, it seems we now have an idea what Fale does with the souls he harvests. He said they can be transplanted to other constructs and controlled to create more useful servants.
You take another step back, leaning against the smooth cold stone wall of the dream room. You still don't trust Fale, or this Makro of his...
░ ░░░░d ░e░ ░░ ░t
Wait. Something seems wrong with what you just thought.
"Fale... what was your god's name again?" You ask hesitantly.
Fale looks at you quizzically. "What, aren't you paying attention? I just said his name is Makro."
"I just... I don't know." You reply, embarrassed. You don't know why you questioned it; you've been talking about Makro for a while now. Still, you can't shake the feeling that something is odd about this situation.
"Look, just take my hand and we'll get in touch with the god himself." Fale says impatiently, plastering a gregarious smile to his face as he takes a step closer to you, arm outstretched. "You're all about making friends, aren't you?"
You shrug uncomfortably, warily eyeing Fale's outstretched hand. You keep your own hands behind your back, pressed up against the wall. "I... think I'll pass this time, Fale. Maybe later, when I know more about him."
Fale's smile vanishes as quickly as it came, though he keeps his hand out for you to grab. "What more do you need to know? He's the last God of Necromancers; if you're going to be friends with any of us, you could at least do him the kindness of a face to face meeting."
"I'm sorry, Fale, but I'm an Elf; gods are not for us, nor us for them. I still have some questions-"
Fale turns abruptly and stalks away, one hand clenched at his side. "Well, they'll have to wait. I'm very busy working with the other Necromancers to save all our lives. Nightroar must be asleep by now, and it's been far too long since I've heard from him. I'll be in touch; I'm sure you can handle your little soul problem all by yourself. Maybe you'll be more in the mood for talking once it's made a hash of whatever it is you're about."
You step forward to protest, or to clarify, or perhaps to schedule another meeting. You don't know quite how you would have responded, however, as your step falls into a sudden hole in the floor. You topple forward, futilely clutching at gnarled tree roots and clods of black, wormy soil as you tumble further into darkness.
You wake with a chill in your bones to a world of darkness and gloom. You prop yourself up on one elbow, regretting your decision not to head back to the tent and your bedroll. Your impromptu camp remains as you left it when you fell asleep; Omo is laid out next to the fire, the construct lurks in the shadows at the edge of the firelight, where Eko is slowly returning with a double armful of wood.
Eko nods a greeting when he sees that you are awake. "Good morning, Nym. Do you usually rise so early? It isn't quite dawn, so it will be a little while before we see any light under these accursed trees. Or were you disturbed in the night?"
You shake your head groggily. "Just dreams, Eko. The ground is an uncomfortable mattress."
Eko nods in commiseration. "That it does. Don't let me disturb you; I can perform my morning prayers silently."
So saying, he withdraws to the other side of the campfire, carefully lowering his bulk to the ground before closing his eyes and focusing inward. You sit the rest of the way up, stretching the tight muscles in your back to quiet the aches there. Your stomach complains of hunger as well, but with little food and a job of work ahead of you you ignore it and focus on Omo and what you must do. You have a good idea of how to attack the task at hand, but you want to be very sure of the steps you will take before beginning.
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Your Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Eko Cleanvise (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Eko's Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned Experiments (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: ydeve on November 28, 2015, 05:57:56 pm
You have a good idea of how to attack the task at hand, but you want to be very sure of the steps you will take before beginning.
If we have a good idea of how to do it, then lets try. But do it with something other than Omo first. Try moving a bug's soul from one bug's body to another.
Post by: RAM on November 28, 2015, 07:58:31 pm
Or we could tell Eko that we have a pretty good idea how to find the source of the curse, and that there may be answers to healing Omo there. Queue meeting an ancient necromancer's soul bound to a network of constructs prompting a "destroy all necromancers" from Eko and a "ummm, I would kind of like to try learning a thing or two snout magic and maybe freeing this poor lonely soul from the curse, maybe even leaving the basic curse intact and just giving it the freedom to not be perpetually hostile to everything" from Nym.
So yes, +1 one practising on something else, pull out and put back in. Standard "form a net, wrap it around the soul, gently pull the soul away until it is separate, and then put it back. Then try again, with more time and motion between extraction and rejoining.
At least tell Eko that we are moving the soul around, we can try to claim that it is life magic if you want, but Eko is obviously somewhat curious about magic and will ask, and anything other than moving souls around is going to look extremely suspicious. If Eko retorts with some version of "but only necromancy can remove souls" the I say to be honest.
P.S.
Ah, I see there is an update.
/me squees emphatically!
Post by: LordPorkins on November 29, 2015, 12:26:27 pm
Thank god i thought this thread was perished.
Post by: Angle on December 01, 2015, 08:52:17 pm
Post by: RAM on December 01, 2015, 09:49:46 pm
Post by: LordPorkins on December 02, 2015, 08:21:07 am
Post by: Gwythur on December 02, 2015, 09:00:20 am
You take another step back, leaning against the smooth cold stone wall of the dream room. You still don't trust Fale, or this Makro of his...
░ ░░░░d ░e░ ░░ ░t
Wait. Something seems wrong with what you just thought.
Not quite so clear as some of the others.
Post by: LordPorkins on December 02, 2015, 10:04:31 am
Buddy talk louder, our subconcious cant hear you!
Post by: RAM on December 02, 2015, 04:08:41 pm
Six letter words that end in d... Or four-letter words with "ed" added.
I can't think of a comfortable way to end a statement with "at" so I am going with "it"...
"get to it"?
Post by: LordPorkins on December 02, 2015, 04:44:06 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on December 02, 2015, 04:58:28 pm
Post by: Andres on December 02, 2015, 05:49:43 pm
Post by: Baffler on December 02, 2015, 07:15:50 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on December 02, 2015, 08:16:55 pm
He said that the illusion is difficult to maintain when he was telling us about dreamscaping earlier. Finding some way to pick at the edges would be our best chance at escaping if that's actually what's going on. If it's not that'll probably cost us a decent amount of mana though, and that's not something we can afford to waste right now.Try to wave our arm through our other arm without looking at it.
Post by: Parisbre56 on December 02, 2015, 08:38:26 pm
If you think this is a dream (I don't) then we could try the classic trope: ask someone to pinch us.He said that the illusion is difficult to maintain when he was telling us about dreamscaping earlier. Finding some way to pick at the edges would be our best chance at escaping if that's actually what's going on. If it's not that'll probably cost us a decent amount of mana though, and that's not something we can afford to waste right now.Try to wave our arm through our other arm without looking at it.
Post by: TheBiggerFish on December 02, 2015, 08:41:49 pm
Post by: RAM on December 02, 2015, 09:05:39 pm
Post by: syvarris on December 02, 2015, 09:52:46 pm
Can we get confirmation on whether the turn was supposed to be purple'd out?
If it was a mistake, +1 to RAM's suggestion of messing with insect souls. Otherwise... uh, disbelieve? Don't touch anybody, or anything even vaugely suspicious.
As to Buddy's message, I think we probably just rolled poorly this time. Also, the second word is five letters, not six.
How about "I could see to it"? or "get to it"? We probably aren't gonna get much from this, but it's worth some idle wondering.
Post by: monk12 on December 04, 2015, 04:00:52 pm
Post by: Baffler on December 04, 2015, 04:31:31 pm
+1 to RAM's suggestion of messing with insect souls.
+1. We can check the tree once the sun's actually come up, and Eko probably isn't paying us too much attention during his prayers.
Post by: Parisbre56 on December 04, 2015, 06:06:42 pm
On the other hand, doing some experimentation now makes it more likely to level up and learn new things. And we know we need some levels and more knowledge, if we are about to face the Controller, one who appears to be a more powerful and more knowledgeable necromancer. And we do have that mana potion left. Plus, if we get working on a golem or something similar, we might end up with something useful for later. And in the best case scenario, we are able to solve this problem ourselves and get Omo back and give him a big hug and a big apology, assuming he has not been horribly damaged.
So my suggestion is:
First of all, check the construct and Omo to make sure he's fine. Just use necromantic sight. No need to waste mana on a see vitality, we can always ask Eko to do that later. As harsh as it sounds, it's more productive to worry about other things for now.
Get some distance (maybe go behind a bush to "freshen up"?) and try to directly create Arosh and use it to poke at something living like a bug, trying to remove its soul and then put it back. Maybe use See Vitality and then try to make a ball like in Steal Vitality and then carefully mold it into the shape of the Unolnimar, before yanking it out? The subject should probably be immobilized somehow (maybe a rock?) in order to make experimentation easier.
If that doesn't work, then try to find something to experiment with. A bug would do nicely, preferably a flying one because later we could use it as a scout. Kill it without damaging it (drown it in some of our water maybe?) and then raise it. And then try to alter it using a spell similar to Alter Golem to create a tendril of Arosh, similar to the one the construct used, and manipulate it to carefully remove another test subject's Unolnimar and then put it back in, making sure the connections we severed are repaired and in the right place.
A scout would be useful if we go searching in the forest, since it would allow us to cover more ground, even if it is with the senses of an insect. I'd prefer a golem scout for something long-term, but this is cheaper and accomplishes the same thing, assuming golems and zombies work with the same principles. In the long term, we could also work on replicating those sensory organs the construct had to make a long-range scout or messenger. By the time we're done here, the Sanctuary should probably have expired so we'll be able to get it with us without problems.
Oh, which reminds me, when we're done here, we should also ask how long Eko thinks the sanctuary will be active and if he can break it in case we have to move the construct.
There's still questions about the gods and dreams we could ask Eko, although not many we could ask directly. We were able to pass through a sanctuary before. Could some powerful entity (like M or the other) had messed with order magic to protect us? Could this same entity be responsible for the wards failing? Could we be related to the wards failing? Could we have something special inside us in some way?
Fale said M worked through him, like he is his conduit. Does it mean gods are powerless unless they have followers to allow them to act through them? Or is that more like possession, where the victim thinks he is using the god but it is really the other way around? That could be useful to know for later. Maybe it could even help us get closer to the other, if the other really is a god.
And what's up with dreams? Where do people go when they dream? Could someone visit someone else's dream? Does order have any answers about that? We could ask about that, maybe tie it in with some prophetic dream we had about exploring the forest? Or some dream where we saw Omo and it felt like it was really him, like it was not just a dream? (probably only use that if he doesn't believe the first one, because it sounds wrong to take advantage of a hurt friend like that)
What kind of magic would dream magic be? Could it be affected by the order magic of the sanctuary? I mean, the way I understood it, Eko said that the sanctuary is basically supercharged with Life energy. Could the other voice be related to the fact that we had a dream inside an anti-necromantic sanctuary? Meaning that the voice is related to life magic? It did call us life-bringer... Could it be that because we are elves we have closer ties to something related to life magic? Maybe because we are an elf we have a balance of Death and Life magic in us? Maybe that would allow us to pass through the wards unharmed?
So many questions!... I need to read back to our conversations with Eko again, I feel like I'm missing something.
Now that I think about it, if Eko ever suspects we are a necromancer, we have a way to stall him: "How can we be a necromancer if we passed through your Sanctuary?" Of course, that could horribly backfire with a "You are the one responsible for the ward failures and the attacks! You are a necromancer spy! The inquisitors will get the truth our of you about what vile magic you used to bypass our wards, witch!"
Post by: LordPorkins on December 04, 2015, 09:21:25 pm
Post by: Descan on December 04, 2015, 09:26:41 pm
Very unconvincing argument.
Post by: LordPorkins on December 04, 2015, 09:31:26 pm
...
Happy?
Post by: Descan on December 04, 2015, 09:54:39 pm
Hiding what we are behind semantics and bent words, at least after we stop hiding literally what we are, will only lead to bad places. Embrace what we are when we decide to tell others what we are at all, but prove we're not going to turn against them or their kin by our actions and by our history.
Post by: Parisbre56 on December 04, 2015, 10:03:10 pm
Unfortunately, it will take some effort to convince people of that. (And by "that" I mean that "Necromancers are not dangerous/can be nice" not that "all mages are dangerous") And that means we have to be extra careful around people.
Post by: Descan on December 04, 2015, 10:41:57 pm
We need a Necromancy Pride Parade in the capital city by the time all this is done, honestly.
Post by: RAM on December 05, 2015, 12:44:11 am
Post by: Descan on December 05, 2015, 12:48:01 am
Who said anything about having the parade involve the one thing we've pretty much decided is off the table for moral reasons? :V I said "don't hide who we are" not "dig up grandma and get her dancing a jig in nipple tassles"
Post by: Parisbre56 on December 05, 2015, 06:32:52 am
Or alternatively, we end up as a reclusive eccentric rich guy with a factory with no visible workers and do the plot of Willy Wonka as a horror movie (http://youtu.be/o9Cby33ZR98) to gain more cheap workers.
Post by: LordPorkins on December 05, 2015, 08:47:02 am
Post by: Descan on December 05, 2015, 12:32:43 pm
Because we're going against the grain and are already hippy-dippy elvish, we might be different in that regard, but even if we were, we wouldn't get much traction :P
Post by: Parisbre56 on December 05, 2015, 02:11:56 pm
Post by: monk12 on January 01, 2016, 10:13:47 pm
First of all, check the construct and Omo to make sure he's fine. Just use necromantic sight. No need to waste mana on a see vitality, we can always ask Eko to do that later. As harsh as it sounds, it's more productive to worry about other things for now.
Get some distance (maybe go behind a bush to "freshen up"?) and try to directly create Arosh and use it to poke at something living like a bug, trying to remove its soul and then put it back. Maybe use See Vitality and then try to make a ball like in Steal Vitality and then carefully mold it into the shape of the Unolnimar, before yanking it out? The subject should probably be immobilized somehow (maybe a rock?) in order to make experimentation easier.
+1 to RAM's suggestion of messing with insect souls.
+1. We can check the tree once the sun's actually come up, and Eko probably isn't paying us too much attention during his prayers.
You wipe the sleep from your eyes as you ponder your course of action for the day. You aren't sure you want to jump straight into a full blown soul transplant without any practice, particularly not on your childhood best friend. Unfortunately, your test subject pool is rather limited considering the Sanctuary; the only things in camp are yourself, the praying priest, the golem itself (which has not moved an inch since last night,) and the chirping of crickets... oh.
Keeping an eye on Eko (who still has his eyes closed, and seems to be mouthing the words to a prayer) you withdraw to the very edge of the camp, behind a bush at the edge of the Sanctuary you have both been using for... personal needs. The light is exceedingly poor here, though the faint traces of grey predawn light are finally making themselves felt. After a few moments searching blindly in the dark for a bug, you shake your head and cast See Vitality. The life around you leaps into focus, and you quickly pick the vitality network of a cricket out of the background of primitive plant life.
You squat down by the bush, getting ready to capture the bug for your experiment, when you notice a problem. The cricket does not have anything you recognize as an Unolnimar. No bundle in the head, no central pulse of Vitality, nothing.
You scratch your head, considering the implications. The insect has no Unolnimar, suggesting it has no soul, like a plant... or a zombie, come to think of it. While the construct of Aloclesno and the human zombies have had concentrations of necromantic energy- of Arosh- in their heads, they haven't had anything nearly as complicated as an Unolnimar. No initiative, no mind, no memory... well, actually, that's not true. The golem holds the memory of a tree in that flat necromantic structure that was created in your struggle to control it, and the zombie in Eko's basement had a much more detailed memory but no similar structure to hold it.
You feel uneasy; not finding an Unolnimar where you expected to makes you think maybe you don't really understand what a soul is. Maybe you can't do this soul transfer without Fale's god. Maybe you can't save Omo. Maybe-
You scowl, standing up abruptly. There's no use in that kind of thinking. There is a way to do this, if you can just think of it. There must be.
You return to the campfire. While the new day has not truly begun, it is now light enough to make out detail in your surroundings. As you sit down by Omo, you notice a stray leaf has fallen on to his face. You brush it aside, wiping a bit of dirt from Omo's cheek.
"If we can't save him, we need to get him out of the elements." Eko's face looks haggard in the morning light, as though he aged ten years in the night. His voice is dull and defeated; there was no solace in his prayers, it seems. "What do we do next, Nym?"
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Your Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Eko Cleanvise (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Eko's Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Author's note: I decided to cut the Planned Experiments spoiler in the interests of reducing that wall of clickables- I think my next move will be to merge the spells and the party members to single spoilers as well. You'll have to remember the things you want to do yourself, I'm afraid.
Post by: crazyabe on January 01, 2016, 10:17:35 pm
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on January 02, 2016, 02:56:03 am
And Christ how are you not hitting post limits there Monk?
Post by: RAM on January 02, 2016, 03:25:02 am
Inform Eko that your priority is to help people, not to end the curse, and that you are willing to let it be, or even aid it if you see no direct harm in doing so, if it means saving Omo.
Try to have the construct carry Omo.
If Eko comments on your odd behaviour, just say that you would rather not discuss it.
P.S.
I have difficulties with google docs, but it would presumably work for others. Whatever makes more updating easier, right?
P.P.S.
YAY UPDATE!!!
Post by: monk12 on January 02, 2016, 12:58:39 pm
You could just use a single Google Doc to store all that...
I could, and it's all more neatly organized on my home system, but I don't like having things in an update that require someone to follow an external link unless I absolutely have to (e.g music.) The spoiler mess is partly a remnant of the whole "I did not think the game would go this way when I started it" thing, and it hasn't been annoying enough for me to bother with before. It's not even that anything's changed or gotten worse, the mess is just itching at my OCD now.
And Christ how are you not hitting post limits there Monk?
There's not too terrible much there even with the mouseover text; I find that lots of links tend to be what kill my character limit in posts. It helps I've got older/less important stuff stored in the second post of the thread.
Anywho, as you were.
Post by: endlessblaze on January 02, 2016, 08:25:27 pm
we make a golem. and alter it to have sight, and preferably movement. then take mister soulless back to the church.
once our power regenerates we make another golem and have it carry a message to our mother. "omo is badly injured and comatose. his affliction is beyond the mages here, please find a high caliber life mage and send them here. I will explain more later."
Post by: TheBiggerFish on January 02, 2016, 08:27:27 pm
Post by: endlessblaze on January 02, 2016, 08:37:56 pm
2. we can always leave it for a moment.
Post by: TheBiggerFish on January 02, 2016, 09:16:51 pm
Post by: Baffler on January 02, 2016, 11:33:36 pm
Post by: endlessblaze on January 03, 2016, 12:09:52 am
we have already established there is no effect on us. and I have a theory why.
we are an elf. elves tend to have a lot of life magic in them. if the sanctuary is trying to detect and block death magic the life energy may be masking it. as far as we know we are the first elf necromancer, so there is no telling what odd ways our life energy could be interacting with our death energy.
Post by: Parisbre56 on January 03, 2016, 05:20:02 am
Post by: monk12 on January 03, 2016, 08:05:18 pm
How heavy is the golem? I understand it's made of metal, but is it some light, hollow metal we could potentially carry?
Its body appears to be cast out of ancient bronze, dented and tarnished. It's legs are made of the same stuff, but have suffered even more abuse, and the "feet" of the construct are covered in muck. The places where the legs join the body are concealed by strips of leather; when the legs move (an awkwardly violent up and down motion) flashes of purple light illuminate the ground as the leather shifts. The construct as a whole is plain-looking and unadorned, rather like a metallic water tub had decided to go for a walk in the woods.
Eko bites his lip anxiously. "What do we do now then? Our camp is not too far away, but I don't think we can carry this hulk of metal that far."
The legs are solid, and though the body is hollow it is solidly constructed; while you and Eko may be able to heave it between the two of you, carrying it long distances yourselves would not be practical. The construct is unable to propel itself due to damage to two of its legs, a rear leg impaired by your Necromancy and a middle leg on the same side severed by Eko's spear.
Post by: TheBiggerFish on January 03, 2016, 08:06:11 pm
Post by: monk12 on January 03, 2016, 08:11:31 pm
Can we try to clean or repair it?
I invite you to explore the various methods available to you, as well as their potential consequences, and to weigh those conclusions against your other possible actions.
Or to quote my second grade teacher, "I don't know, can you?" :P
Post by: TheBiggerFish on January 03, 2016, 08:13:04 pm
Post by: Descan on January 03, 2016, 08:46:04 pm
Post by: RAM on January 04, 2016, 12:41:01 am
If I recall correctly we won a battle for it and it is ours now, though how secure that is I wouldn't know...
Post by: syvarris on January 06, 2016, 03:54:03 pm
Same problem with dragging Omo to the tree. I support that plan, but I don't know if we could convince Eko that it's a good idea to drag a comatose victim of the curse straight to the source of said curse. We might be able to say "I think I might be able to restore Omo, but I'm not confident about it. We should head towards the source of the curse, because maybe there's something there I can examine to figure this out." That seems like very flimsy reasoning from Eko's PoV, though.
As to transporting the golem... couldn't we take the legs off to make transport easier? Eko already severed a leg.
Post by: ydeve on January 06, 2016, 10:03:18 pm
Even worse, if we take Eko and Omo to the necromancer's lair, Eko will think we've betrayed him and are delivering him to the necromancer. Bad idea.
I think we really need to find out if it's possible to experiment with soul transplants before trying it on Omo. Insects don't have souls, but maybe larger animals, dogs and such, might?
Repairing the construct should probably be safe and within our ability to do, but if we're going to do that, we need to tell Eko what we are first. From our actions, it's clear we care about Omo and want to defeat the necromancer, so hopefully Eko will believe us. But it's better to be honest with him than to do something stupid and have him discover we're a necromancer w/o us telling him first. If we tell Eko and repair the construct, we could take Omo somewhere else and maybe find some larger mammal to try soul transplantation on.
Have we ever asked Eko about souls? He wouldn't be able to help with the necromancy, but he might know if animals have them.
Post by: RAM on January 07, 2016, 12:59:00 am
We do not know that the curse if Fale. We suspect that the curse is, like, a thousand years old or something, which matches Fale's account. We suspect that the curse invited us, which matches Fale.
What doesn't match is that the curse and Fale both seem to want to meet with us but are not revealing their connection. Could Fale not know that we are the necromancer that meddled with its construct? Is there good reason to believe that we could meet in person and not deduce that it is Fale? I am just not sure why it would not revel itself if it is the same being...
Whether it is Fale or not, one would assume that the Curse is bored, lonely, and wants to be freed. I am not certain that we are okay with releasing the souls-sucking immortal onto the world, but we could probably justify giving it some sort of scrying device to keep up with events in the capital or similar. Maybe it could even give lectures on magic by proxy in one of the less strict institutions...
Post by: ydeve on January 07, 2016, 12:43:20 pm
Post by: monk12 on January 08, 2016, 02:42:59 pm
Follow your vision, trek to the depths of the curse and commune with its source.
Inform Eko that your priority is to help people, not to end the curse, and that you are willing to let it be, or even aid it if you see no direct harm in doing so, if it means saving Omo.
Try to have the construct carry Omo.
If Eko comments on your odd behaviour, just say that you would rather not discuss it.
Can we try to clean or repair it?
I think you guys might be missing something important: We're out here with Eko. Whatever our plan is, we need to convince him to follow along with it. Trying to fix the golem and control it with necromancy.. probably wouldn't work too well.
Same problem with dragging Omo to the tree. I support that plan, but I don't know if we could convince Eko that it's a good idea to drag a comatose victim of the curse straight to the source of said curse. We might be able to say "I think I might be able to restore Omo, but I'm not confident about it. We should head towards the source of the curse, because maybe there's something there I can examine to figure this out." That seems like very flimsy reasoning from Eko's PoV, though.
As to transporting the golem... couldn't we take the legs off to make transport easier? Eko already severed a leg.
I do not support taking Omo to the tree. The tree is Mr M's Priest's lair. We've decided we don't want his help at the price of joining M. He doesn't seem to be on our side.
Even worse, if we take Eko and Omo to the necromancer's lair, Eko will think we've betrayed him and are delivering him to the necromancer. Bad idea.
I think we really need to find out if it's possible to experiment with soul transplants before trying it on Omo. Insects don't have souls, but maybe larger animals, dogs and such, might?
Repairing the construct should probably be safe and within our ability to do, but if we're going to do that, we need to tell Eko what we are first. From our actions, it's clear we care about Omo and want to defeat the necromancer, so hopefully Eko will believe us. But it's better to be honest with him than to do something stupid and have him discover we're a necromancer w/o us telling him first. If we tell Eko and repair the construct, we could take Omo somewhere else and maybe find some larger mammal to try soul transplantation on.
Have we ever asked Eko about souls? He wouldn't be able to help with the necromancy, but he might know if animals have them.
"What do we do next, Nym?"
"I can't..." You shake your head, avoiding Eko's eyes. "I need to consider my options."
You abruptly stand up and walk away from the campfire. You can feel Eko's eyes following you to the construct, still idly slumped on the ground where you captured it. A brief examination tells you that, while you don't think the severed leg is easily repairable, you can probably undo the damage you did to the other leg with Impair Undead using Alter Golem to restore the connections and the other legs as a guide. This would allow the construct to walk under its own power if you use Command Undead, which is good because you don't see another way you could move the golem itself.
Of course, you'd have to find a way to explain all this to Eko. ... You sense that Eko is under a lot of stress right now. You feel that he had pinned his hopes on this disastrous expedition, and that now might not be the best time to surprise him with unsavory revelations.
You also consider simply leaving the golem here, but you are not sure if finding the source of the Curse of Aloclesno will help Omo if the golem holding his soul is not also with you. You could leave both Omo and the golem behind and try to enlist the aid of the curse on your own, but you would likely have to leave Eko behind as well to guard them. Alternately, you could follow through on your plan to do some soul transplant experiments by tracking down a larger animal; Omo said there were deer in this forest, and there are certainly birds flitting about. Of course, you're not sure if you could catch a bird by yourself, or even find a deer; Omo was the hunter, not you. Still, it's a possibility.
Those are your options, as you see it. Now to choose one, and to figure out what you'll tell Eko.
Spoiler: You (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Your Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Omo Thunderjaw (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Eko Cleanvise (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Eko's Spells (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notable Figures (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)
Post by: ydeve on January 08, 2016, 10:46:44 pm
I'm for looking at Omo's soul and head, maybe trying to recreate the Olowhatsitcalled in Omo's head to see if we can do something that makes sense with what we know. (Heaven helps those who help themselves.) If we actually make contact with the deity then try the transplant, otherwise lets leave Eko with Omo and go looking for the curse.
Ofc if we go wandering on our own then we need to give Eko some sort of excuse.
Post by: RAM on January 09, 2016, 01:53:28 am
Meditate upon divinity with respect to necromancy and elves.
And also:
+1 to attempting to recreate the "whip" and capturing motions of the construct.
But I am feeling kind of shaky on both of those for some reason...
Also, what about Eko? Omo is not going to last forever like this and Eko is sort of being left out. I mean, it is nice to have a meatshield but... Well, we should try to get Eko involved a bot more and less of a fifth wheel.
Post by: ydeve on January 09, 2016, 03:10:23 pm
I have a theory that Fale might be M. He keeps referring to M with different names, as if it isn't important to him. And we know he can change his shape and appearance, as if he doesn't have a normal physical form. (We do know that necromancy does not involve shape changing.) He talks to different necromancers, helping them in his goal of conquering the world. He also knew who the necromancers were very early on.
I don't think that making contact with a god counts as worshiping them. In M's case, Fale was specifically inviting us to join M. But if we just tried to talk to a god, we should be able to actually decide whether or not to worship.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on January 09, 2016, 03:27:14 pm
Another I didn't notice was about treatment of Necromancers prior
Post by: RAM on January 10, 2016, 12:54:41 am
I doubt that the war grew out of nothing...
Post by: ydeve on January 10, 2016, 02:32:41 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on January 10, 2016, 06:25:29 am
Post by: ydeve on January 11, 2016, 04:02:26 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on January 11, 2016, 04:17:34 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on January 11, 2016, 04:31:49 am
Eko thinks we are a life mage, correct? Say we felt another presence inside the golem, controlling it remotely and that we think finding it might be the only way to help Omo. Maybe say it's because necromancy and life magic are similar, since they both use vitality, so we could sense the necromancer's vitality manipulation. If he buys it, we can just start going towards where the golem was going. Edit: No need to tell him exactly why we think it would help, just that it might. It's not a lie that we are desperate and that we don't know what might happen there.
But here's the good part. We can take Omo with us physically by carrying him. But we can take his soul by sneaking the golem to us. Remember how those organs in the golem allow us to sense it remotely? And remember how the curse could cast magic on it without being physically present? We can try something similar. Take control of the golem, dispell the sanctuary and then, when we're far enough, say we need to stop to rest or think or meditate or whatever and remotely repair the golem, giving it a leg and eyes. Then we can have it follow us without Eko knowing.
Edit2: Oh, also tell him to shut down the sanctuary.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on January 11, 2016, 05:27:38 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on January 11, 2016, 06:12:57 am
Or just drag the golem with us if it is light enough, saves some mana for later use.http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=96692.msg6712568#msg6712568
Already asked that, can't be done, unless you actually want to try to drag a heavy thing with you through the thick forest. It could take days, if it is even possible.
Post by: Baffler on January 11, 2016, 01:29:53 pm
Wait, never mind that, I got it!
Eko thinks we are a life mage, correct? Say we felt another presence inside the golem, controlling it remotely and that we think finding it might be the only way to help Omo. Maybe say it's because necromancy and life magic are similar, since they both use vitality, so we could sense the necromancer's vitality manipulation. If he buys it, we can just start going towards where the golem was going. Edit: No need to tell him exactly why we think it would help, just that it might. It's not a lie that we are desperate and that we don't know what might happen there.
But here's the good part. We can take Omo with us physically by carrying him. But we can take his soul by sneaking the golem to us. Remember how those organs in the golem allow us to sense it remotely? And remember how the curse could cast magic on it without being physically present? We can try something similar. Take control of the golem, dispell the sanctuary and then, when we're far enough, say we need to stop to rest or think or meditate or whatever and remotely repair the golem, giving it a leg and eyes. Then we can have it follow us without Eko knowing.
This one seems our best option. +1.
Post by: ydeve on January 11, 2016, 09:22:54 pm
Also, maybe I'm missing something, but why do you all think the curse isn't Fale? Because it seemed pretty clear to me that Fale is the curse.
Post by: Parisbre56 on January 12, 2016, 04:10:07 am
Post by: RAM on January 12, 2016, 05:04:34 am
Post by: ydeve on January 12, 2016, 02:26:25 pm
And here is where we met Fale right after the construct: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=96692.msg6378551#msg6378551
As you can see, the "location" we met Fale at exactly matches the invitation from the construct.
Post by: Parisbre56 on January 12, 2016, 02:58:00 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on February 10, 2016, 02:45:45 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on February 10, 2016, 03:50:09 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on February 10, 2016, 05:39:45 pm
Why do we need to start moving?Because the more we stay here there's a chance things will get worse with Omo and Eko. Omo has a chance of having his health worsen and Eko has a chance of starting to ask too many questions or getting desperate and doing something stupid. Getting Omo and the construct to the curse will hopefully help with the first while getting Eko focused on moving and watching out for ambush will hopefully help with the second.
Plus, evil necromancer trying to take over the world? Even if it wasn't for the chance of Omo getting worse, that seems like a big enough reason to not stand around and wait. The more we wait the worse things will get for the free men and elves trying to defend themselves from the necromancers. Edit: Even from a purely selfish standpoint, the worse things get on the road, the more cities that fall, the harder it will get for us to move around and gain supplies and information and the higher the chance we will be killed or captured and forced to follow M.
Post by: TheBiggerFish on February 10, 2016, 09:04:03 pm
Post by: ydeve on February 11, 2016, 02:00:13 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on February 11, 2016, 04:08:44 am
How long is the remaining timer on the Sanctuary?4 hours. Says so in Eko's spoiler. We could waste an hour or two gathering supplies and getting ready to leave, but I think 4 hours may be pushing it. Unless you remember something we need that could take more than 4 hours.
Post by: gordy on February 11, 2016, 03:19:17 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on February 11, 2016, 03:34:24 pm
We could hold a vigil?How long is the remaining timer on the Sanctuary?4 hours. Says so in Eko's spoiler. We could waste an hour or two gathering supplies and getting ready to leave, but I think 4 hours may be pushing it. Unless you remember something we need that could take more than 4 hours.
Post by: gordy on February 11, 2016, 04:12:47 pm
Post by: ydeve on February 11, 2016, 07:35:08 pm
Casting see vitality and looking at how Eko's soul connects to his body could be useful, but it wouldn't take THAT much time.
Post by: gordy on February 11, 2016, 07:52:38 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on February 12, 2016, 04:02:01 am
Post by: ydeve on February 12, 2016, 02:29:12 pm
Post by: Baffler on February 12, 2016, 03:35:41 pm
Wait, never mind that, I got it!
Eko thinks we are a life mage, correct? Say we felt another presence inside the golem, controlling it remotely and that we think finding it might be the only way to help Omo. Maybe say it's because necromancy and life magic are similar, since they both use vitality, so we could sense the necromancer's vitality manipulation. If he buys it, we can just start going towards where the golem was going. Edit: No need to tell him exactly why we think it would help, just that it might. It's not a lie that we are desperate and that we don't know what might happen there.
But here's the good part. We can take Omo with us physically by carrying him. But we can take his soul by sneaking the golem to us. Remember how those organs in the golem allow us to sense it remotely? And remember how the curse could cast magic on it without being physically present? We can try something similar. Take control of the golem, dispel the sanctuary and then, when we're far enough, say we need to stop to rest or think or meditate or whatever and remotely repair the golem, giving it a leg and eyes. Then we can have it follow us without Eko knowing.
This one seems our best option. +1.
I still support this one.
Post by: ydeve on February 13, 2016, 02:30:50 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on February 13, 2016, 06:32:45 pm
Didn't we destroy the golem's organs? I can't quite remember. If we did, we'll have to repair them first. Not sure how much time it'll take to figure that out. We could study it while the sanctuary wears off.Yeah, you're right. We impaired its eyes and one of its legs. My suggestion is to use alter golem to repair the damage we caused while using command undead and the ability to remotely control and alter the construct to do so without Eko realising we did it. After all, the curse was able to manipulate the construct remotely too... Although now that I think about it, I think I have a better idea.
Tell Eko to go gather our things from the camp. Even if we don't know what we're going to do, we know that whether we leave or stay here, we're going to need our supplies. So it's better to do something than do nothing. Tell him we'll stay to look after Omo and try some more things. That will give us an excuse to stay with him alone and an excuse for not having all of our MP.
Now, when we're sure he's gone, we need to use Alter golem to repair the construct's eyes and leg, hopefully making it mobile again. Then we cast command undead to it and use those necromantic distance sensing things it has in it to maintain remote control over it. We should leave it playing dead so that Eko doesn't suspect anything.
We can also do some experiments during that time if anyone has any good suggestions, but I think it would be better if we just saved our MP for later.
Then comes the hard part. We need to convince Eko that following the presence we felt in the golem is a good idea and we need to either stall long enough for the sanctuary to wear off or convince Eko to dispel it. For stalling, we could do some useful things like build some sort of stretcher for Omo (maybe add some blankets to keep him comfortable) or search for some extra food. I also bet convincing Eko that we're desperate enough to go after the presence we felt in the golem and that that presence might be our hope for helping Omo and finding the other missing souls might take some time. Maybe we could also talk about how battles between magic users usually work. If we can't stall for that long, then we can probably tell him that we think it would be better to dispel the sanctuary because we think there might be some necromantic spell in Omo that's helping keep him alive, maybe a way to slow down the troops it was meant to intimidate by making them take care of those without a soul for longer.
If we manage to do all that without complications, then the plan is to go towards where the golem was going, using the image in it and any tracks we can find to help us find the tree, while the golem tries to silently follow us from a safe distance through the magic of remote control.
An alternate plan would be for us to say that the golem got repaired on its own while he was away and that we want to follow it to wherever it's going to find the other lost souls and whoever it's controlling it, but that sounds much less likely to convince him. Not to mention that Eko might get suspicious when the golem starts having trouble "remembering" where it should go.
As always, if you have a better idea or anything at all to add, do speak up. I'm just one man, there might be something I'm forgetting or my plan might have something stupid in it I'm failing to see.
Post by: ydeve on February 13, 2016, 08:35:54 pm
Also ask Eko about deities and prayer.
Post by: syvarris on February 18, 2016, 07:45:40 pm
Didn't we destroy the golem's organs? I can't quite remember. If we did, we'll have to repair them first. Not sure how much time it'll take to figure that out. We could study it while the sanctuary wears off.Yeah, you're right. We impaired its eyes and one of its legs. My suggestion is to use alter golem to repair the damage we caused while using command undead and the ability to remotely control and alter the construct to do so without Eko realising we did it. After all, the curse was able to manipulate the construct remotely too... Although now that I think about it, I think I have a better idea.
Tell Eko to go gather our things from the camp. Even if we don't know what we're going to do, we know that whether we leave or stay here, we're going to need our supplies. So it's better to do something than do nothing. Tell him we'll stay to look after Omo and try some more things. That will give us an excuse to stay with him alone and an excuse for not having all of our MP.
Now, when we're sure he's gone, we need to use Alter golem to repair the construct's eyes and leg, hopefully making it mobile again. Then we cast command undead to it and use those necromantic distance sensing things it has in it to maintain remote control over it. We should leave it playing dead so that Eko doesn't suspect anything.
We can also do some experiments during that time if anyone has any good suggestions, but I think it would be better if we just saved our MP for later.
Then comes the hard part. We need to convince Eko that following the presence we felt in the golem is a good idea and we need to either stall long enough for the sanctuary to wear off or convince Eko to dispel it. For stalling, we could do some useful things like build some sort of stretcher for Omo (maybe add some blankets to keep him comfortable) or search for some extra food. I also bet convincing Eko that we're desperate enough to go after the presence we felt in the golem and that that presence might be our hope for helping Omo and finding the other missing souls might take some time. Maybe we could also talk about how battles between magic users usually work. If we can't stall for that long, then we can probably tell him that we think it would be better to dispel the sanctuary because we think there might be some necromantic spell in Omo that's helping keep him alive, maybe a way to slow down the troops it was meant to intimidate by making them take care of those without a soul for longer.
If we manage to do all that without complications, then the plan is to go towards where the golem was going, using the image in it and any tracks we can find to help us find the tree, while the golem tries to silently follow us from a safe distance through the magic of remote control.
An alternate plan would be for us to say that the golem got repaired on its own while he was away and that we want to follow it to wherever it's going to find the other lost souls and whoever it's controlling it, but that sounds much less likely to convince him. Not to mention that Eko might get suspicious when the golem starts having trouble "remembering" where it should go.
As always, if you have a better idea or anything at all to add, do speak up. I'm just one man, there might be something I'm forgetting or my plan might have something stupid in it I'm failing to see.
+1
In order to convince Eko to lower the sanctuary, I suggest that we say there's likely to be more monsters. Then, we say we could cast a sort of trap on this disabled monster, and if the sanctuary is dispelled (to allow detection), other monsters might come seeking this one. Our trap would disable them.
This works as an alternative excuse why we have reduced mana, and would work as a very good excuse why we're casting on the construct if he catches us doing so.
Post by: RAM on February 18, 2016, 09:42:58 pm
Post by: Kamani on April 19, 2016, 05:56:30 pm
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on April 19, 2016, 10:25:53 pm
Is this dead? I don't really know, being new here, but I read this and it was really good so it stinks if it is.No it's not dead, Monk just takes awhile. Besides if it's dead Monk would probably tell us.
Post by: RAM on April 20, 2016, 04:51:46 am
Post by: Kamani on April 20, 2016, 06:46:48 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 20, 2016, 09:22:16 am
Ugh, I woke up the morning after April first, and the first thing I thought was "If only I had bumped You are a Necromancer!"...You monster.
Post by: RAM on April 20, 2016, 04:43:51 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on July 20, 2016, 12:17:33 pm
[color=transparent][i]M is false[/i][/color]also PTW
Edit: Derp, obviously you have. So this is actually just a PTW on a temporally dead thread, providing absolutely no value whatsoever! You are welcome.
Editedit: And now I'm going to ruin the above edit by adding something of actual value actually. A suggestion!
You might think I'm crazy, but I think now is the time to come clean to Eko, entirely. As in, tell him the whole story, up until now. It's risky, sure, but we won't be able to get much more help from him until he understands, and misleading him farther is dangerous.
If that somehow works perfectly, I'm for repairing the golem's leg and going to see the Curse. Getting the construct to carry Omo on it's back if possible.
Post by: Kamani on August 02, 2016, 10:30:14 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on August 02, 2016, 11:02:33 pm
Simply be patient, my friend.
Post by: RAM on August 03, 2016, 02:57:04 am
Post by: Kamani on August 03, 2016, 12:47:26 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on August 03, 2016, 02:45:55 pm
BUMP
Monk pls update this again. Would make very happy.
Post by: Baffler on August 03, 2016, 03:23:21 pm
Post by: syvarris on August 03, 2016, 05:50:48 pm
But, yeah, Monk. If you're reading this, come baaaack!
Post by: Egan_BW on August 03, 2016, 06:35:31 pm
Post by: LordPorkins on August 03, 2016, 06:39:11 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I think we should just tell Eko about us. Trying to hide it is just going to make us more suspicious.
Post by: Egan_BW on August 03, 2016, 06:43:43 pm
Post by: syvarris on August 03, 2016, 06:44:33 pm
Post by: Baffler on August 03, 2016, 07:08:52 pm
And, more importantly in my mind, as long as he doesn't know we can't really tell him what we're doing, or synergize death and order.
Yeah. It's better if he doesn't know, but he's a smart guy and the longer he's with us the more likely it is that he'll just realize on his own. I still think finding the thing remotely controlling the golem is the best way forward, but we don't need him to start thinking we're the reason the zombies got past his wards (especially since he knows we can pass through the sanctuary) or that we have some secret evil motive for coming here in the meantime.
On the other hand Omo didn't take the news well and we've known him for years. As much as Eko might like us, he has much more reason than Omo to assume we're evil by default if he finds out.
Post by: Egan_BW on August 03, 2016, 07:32:45 pm
Can't be that hard to justify murder to yourself, right?~
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on August 04, 2016, 12:24:36 am
Of course, if he reacts bad enough to just attack us, we could always just suck his lifeforce out.
Can't be that hard to justify murder to yourself, right?~
WOuldn't that be self defence? I mean if he seriously attacks us with only or magical discipline as provocation then it would be perfectly justified.
Post by: Kamani on August 04, 2016, 01:55:18 pm
Post by: RAM on August 04, 2016, 06:44:29 pm
Post by: Kamani on August 04, 2016, 06:49:21 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on August 04, 2016, 07:01:18 pm
...We could also just leave the forest with the body and construct, and find another way, maybe even practice until we can do it ourselves, but I worry that if we take too long Omo will go mad in his shell of no perception.
Post by: Kamani on August 04, 2016, 07:04:15 pm
Edit: That leaves two options.
Edit2: I agree with the Curse Controller, though we might want to bring the golem with us.
Post by: Baffler on August 04, 2016, 07:09:05 pm
Eko thinks we are a life mage, correct? Say we felt another presence inside the golem, controlling it remotely and that we think finding it might be the only way to help Omo. Maybe say it's because necromancy and life magic are similar, since they both use vitality, so we could sense the necromancer's vitality manipulation. If he buys it, we can just start going towards where the golem was going. Edit: No need to tell him exactly why we think it would help, just that it might. It's not a lie that we are desperate and that we don't know what might happen there.
But here's the good part. We can take Omo with us physically by carrying him. But we can take his soul by sneaking the golem to us. Remember how those organs in the golem allow us to sense it remotely? And remember how the curse could cast magic on it without being physically present? We can try something similar. Take control of the golem, dispell the sanctuary and then, when we're far enough, say we need to stop to rest or think or meditate or whatever and remotely repair the golem, giving it a leg and eyes. Then we can have it follow us without Eko knowing.
Edit2: Oh, also tell him to shut down the sanctuary.
I'd still support this, though I suppose we could drop the secrecy of it if we decide to tell Eko now and he's still willing to talk to us. The golem can probably lead us to the tree if we don't know where it is already.
Post by: Kamani on August 04, 2016, 07:10:17 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on August 04, 2016, 07:35:33 pm
Anyway, my plan to get both Omo and the construct to the controller:
Use Alter Golem to fix the leg we broke. We can't repair the leg that Eko cut off, but it can probably walk on five legs. We can then cast Command Undead to take direct control of it. It is NOT capable of standing orders, so we'll have to babysit it.
We can hopefully carry Omo on the back of the construct, but if not we or Eko can carry him.
Also, crazy idea: could we use Alter Golem to put eyes and ears on Omo's soul? that might help keep him from going mad. Might even be able to give him a voice.
Post by: Kamani on August 04, 2016, 07:40:35 pm
Quote
Post by: Egan_BW on August 04, 2016, 07:58:14 pm
Personally, I think that Necromancy actually isn't Death magic, but either a branch of Life magic, another obscure Faith, such as Fire, which deals with similar matters, like golems and the soul, or an entirely different type of magic from the eight known Faiths. Actual Death mages might have died out long ago, or perhaps Death is, by definition, not to be wielded by the living.
/theorycraft
Post by: Kamani on August 04, 2016, 08:02:12 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on August 04, 2016, 08:11:54 pm
Post by: Kamani on August 04, 2016, 08:13:07 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on August 05, 2016, 02:10:20 am
It would probably lead to a very awkward situation if we meet any elves in the capital, but we can probably deal with that when the time comes.
Post by: LordPorkins on August 05, 2016, 07:04:45 am
Post by: Kamani on August 05, 2016, 12:31:19 pm
Post by: LordPorkins on August 05, 2016, 07:41:39 pm
Post by: Kamani on August 05, 2016, 09:51:56 pm
Post by: RAM on August 05, 2016, 11:11:36 pm
Code: [Select]
=transparent and using the quote button to see the source-code of the message and then using your web-browser's page-search function to jump to the same text.
Post by: Kamani on August 06, 2016, 09:25:55 am
Post by: Arcvasti on August 07, 2016, 08:43:58 pm
Post by: Kamani on August 07, 2016, 08:44:43 pm
Post by: RAM on August 07, 2016, 09:31:12 pm
?
PTWPosting to watch(P.T.W.) indicates an intention to follow a thread. It is a product of the "Show new replies to your posts." Option on this forum. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=132176.0)
Post by: Kamani on August 07, 2016, 09:32:45 pm
Post by: Shalax on August 18, 2016, 01:10:49 pm
Post by: ydeve on March 18, 2017, 04:39:48 pm
Post by: Kamani on March 18, 2017, 05:22:49 pm
Post by: RAM on March 18, 2017, 06:13:26 pm
Post by: Kamani on March 18, 2017, 06:33:12 pm
Post by: wer6 on March 18, 2017, 06:40:04 pm
Wooo.
Yeah.